35. Comparing Chicago and Cleveland

by | Dec 27, 2020 | 0 comments

Season 03 Episode 08

Comparing Chicago and Cleveland

 

 

 

We are all digging holes… Do your holes matter?

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Brett Zingler
I have a C grid book that I read.

George Ward
Welcome to the finger Podcast. I’m here today, as one of your hosts. My name is George Ward here with Bradley Hodges, Brad Ziegler and Cole May, who most of you probably don’t know, because he’s only been on one of the podcasts, but he’s just sort of a valuable member of the community. We’ve been talking about an issue that’s come up a lot with, especially with newer members, but you know, also with some old members, people are just asking how different things were solved. People were asking how is Chicago salt was super complicated. Was there a bunch of stuff right in line of sight? How was it salt? So we figured we’d go through a couple of things with you. But before we get to that, I think we’ve got maybe some updates on stuff that’s going on from Bradley, because I didn’t think about them, Bradley. Hey, guys.

Bradley Hodges
So my it’s It’s the most wonderful time of the year, as you all know, and we have the Secret Santa going on. Logging, registering for it has already taken place. If you registered, you have received your email letting you know that names have been drawn, and you have a Secret Santa. So please do not get coal in your stocking this year, make sure that you send your secret santa something wonderful. If you don’t know what to send them, log into your Elfster account, you will see a wish list. Hopefully they created one if you haven’t created a wish list I highly recommend you do so. If they haven’t created a wish list, you can anonymously send them a message through Elster and just kind of ask them, hey, I want to make sure you get something awesome that you’re going to enjoy. What can I send you. And if you’re unsuccessful in doing so, just keep in mind, they’re part of a treasure hunt community, they’re probably going to like something treasure hunt related, probably something cool from your hometown, or from one of the treasure cities. So you know, just keep that in mind. Definitely stay within the limit, which I think this year we’re doing $50 That way everybody, you know, feels like they didn’t overspend and that they got somebody something that’s worth what they got and all that goodness. So I’m super excited. I hope the person who I know the person who I got is going to absolutely love what they’re getting sent. I have no doubt whatsoever. So I love our secret santa time. It’s the most wonderful time of the year. Hey, Bradley, yo,

Brett Zingler
couple of weeks ago, you asked me hey, why do you never join the Secret Santa? And I know what’s going to happen? Is so I’m, I’m terrible at gifts. And so what’s going to happen is somebody’s going to get me something awesome. And then I’m going to send them coal in a stocking.

George Ward
Why would you put coal in a truck? I think he wants to stay in Canada

Bradley Hodges
is that well, we had coal in the podcast.

Cole May
I don’t fit coal in my stockings.

I don’t know stocking

George Ward
candy, like you’re in California some weekend

Brett Zingler
I am. So I don’t get I don’t want to sign up for that. I’m just terrible with gifts. So it however I will i am a good receiver of gifts. So if you guys want to send me stuff full well knowing or not expecting anything in return.

And I’m actually his shipping hub. So send it to me, I’ll make sure it gets to him.

Why do I not trust that?

Bradley Hodges
Cuz you shouldn’t. Okay, cool.

Brett Zingler
coming your way.

Bradley Hodges
Cool. We also, I actually, I’ve been doing a lot of studying of the images recently and of the verses and I’ve actually detected something that absolutely nobody has ever mentioned before. And if anybody wants me to tell them what it is, post on the forum, and maybe I’ll put it in a podcast.

Brett Zingler
Whoa, wait a minute. You can’t just do that.

Bradley Hodges
Right? And don’t do that on the forums either guys, because that’s super annoying. So if you figure something out, just share it. Don’t post that you should be you’ve you’ve got something and whether or not yes, we want to know it. We wouldn’t be in the forums if we didn’t want to know about it. So don’t be that guy. Of course. I was kidding. But just giving everybody an example of what not to do on the forums, please. Thank you.

Brett Zingler
Okay, well, we have a fun Podcast. Today. Well Like, like George said, and we’ll tee that up in a little bit, but first, I would like to ask you guys a quick question in and we’ll start we’ll start coal, then Bradley, then George, I want you to sum up 2020 In one word 2020 and one word extravagant. Okay, that’s not that’s what I expected. That is a lot of syllables in that thing.

George Ward
Very polite in Canada. That was very

Cole May
you forgot to mention that, um, that I’m here from Canada.

Brett Zingler
Yes, Cole is from Canada. And he’s not going to talk down about anything. 20 was a fine. Yeah. We loved it. It was all about love.

Bradley Hodges
Is a Canadian. Excellent. George.

George Ward
just tried to emulate Terrance and Phillip. Nice. Hey, guy.

Brett Zingler
Okay, Bradlee,

Bradley Hodges
pestilence. Ooh, pestilence. That’s the first thing that comes to mind.

Brett Zingler
Pestilence.

Cole May
It was a plague after all.

Brett Zingler
You guys are like, can’t you just say crappy or something like that? What is? We shouldn’t have to go to a dictionary to like figure this out. Okay.

Bradley Hodges
George has a podcast. That’s

George Ward
true. 2020 on one word, my word is? Oh.

Bradley Hodges
Am I a PA?

Cole May
That’s a good word.

Brett Zingler
Not a word. That’s more of like a that’s on him on a PA

Cole May
is exasperation.

George Ward
My we did a lot of stuff personally. Over here. That was kind of cool for 2020. So the year sucked. But

yeah, but yeah, yeah. All works.

Oh,

Bradley Hodges
yeah. We, I mean, personally, we’ve been able to turn into some wonderful things. My wife and I have gotten out and hiked a lot. We’ve actually really gotten into hiking and then overnight camping, just kind of out in the middle of the woods. So pretty fun. We’ve gotten into your cooking out with your boiling water and doing these like dehydrated meals, which, before you you go and try these. And they’re your only thing you can eat. I highly recommend you test these at home because some of them are amazing. Some of them are absolutely terrible. So yeah, so like, okay, so when you were a kid and you went to the Science Museum, did you ever get like one of those like, astronaut ice cream sandwiches? Yeah, it was gross. Yeah. Yeah, exactly. So so they make like full meals like this, like beef stroganoff and things like that. It’s some of them are really good. You just add boiling water. Wait about 10 minutes, and it’s amazing. Some of them are terrible. Like my wife had this curry meal the other day. And it was, it was horrible could not even eat it. So if you’re going to do that, try and try it at home first. So it’s not the only thing you have to eat.

George Ward
I’d like to introduce you to the wonderful world world of ramen.

Bradley Hodges
Ramen. Yeah, no, ramen is good. But you know you want to mix it up sometimes? Sure, I guess. Yeah. Plus, you got to put the ramen in a bowl where these meals come in like a aluminum bag so you don’t have anything to wash or anything. You just crumpled the bag when you’re done. Put it in your stuff and then dispose it whenever you’re you’re you’re back into civilization.

Brett Zingler
Is this what they eat on the moon? Maybe?

George Ward
I thought the moon is made of cheese. They probably just need to

Brett Zingler
eat the moon. Yeah. You wouldn’t have to bring food.

George Ward
No, just while you’re gonna bring some tortillas. Okay, yeah, totally

Brett Zingler
baguette. Let’s see. Yeah, ROM and brings back some college memories. That’s all I ate. In in college. It was a very long, six or seven years. I can’t ever clean. Yeah, I’ve

George Ward
seen 37 of your

Bradley Hodges
favorite ramen flavors, Brett.

Brett Zingler
I like the what is it spicy chicken. Yeah, it has little cubes of freeze dried chicken in it. And then you put Tabasco in it. That’s when you’re feeling naughty and fancy.

George Ward
You’re one of the rich kids. You get bullied in cubes. Yes.

Brett Zingler
Friggin frat frat guys.

Bradley Hodges
I’ve always wanted to try the shrimp, but I’ve never

Brett Zingler
don’t do it. The problem with it. It’s like drinking a heart attack because it’s basically all sodium. It’s like, it looks like shrimp but it’s like a shrimp shaped salt is what it is.

Cole May
Down in America. Do you guys have sure chips.

Brett Zingler
I’ve had them before, but we that’s not a common thing here.

Cole May
No. They’re pretty common up here, but they’re also quite awful.

Brett Zingler
Yeah, they’re kind of like pork rinds. But shrimp. But yeah,

Cole May
with the attempt Ranger. It tastes like shrimp.

Bradley Hodges
Yeah, cool. I don’t know if you knew it or not, but you’re also in America.

Cole May
Well, well, according to Ramstein, we’re all in America.

George Ward
The Canadians don’t like to claim it, you know, rather just, we’re not a part of that down there. Part of it whatsoever.

Brett Zingler
whatever they’re doing. It’s not extravagant enough. Y’all can have

Bradley Hodges
America just happy being the hat of the United States.

Brett Zingler
Yeah. Yeah, I agree. There. There were some there were some bad I had a couple of losses this year. I’m not gonna lie of people and pets. And, but, but overall, I have to say like we made it through, okay. I know there’s a lot of people out there struggling. And they have it, you know, way worse than than any of us and they’re sick and things like that. So I’m just looking forward to this year being over. So hopefully this is the last podcast of the year or maybe we’ll have one towards the years and we’ll see and looking forward to 2021 Oh, absolutely. You guys that. Okay, what’s next? Is a Trivia Time. Sure, sure. Why not? Okay, so I’m going to test out this is this is you know, we are a low budget podcast as you guys know, billions of

George Ward
dollars. I don’t know what he’s talking about. Right? We’re

Bradley Hodges
hero budget podcast. Okay. I’m

Brett Zingler
a low budget and low technology person. So I’m going to try out my intro for this trivia segment. You ready? Do it. You It’s the secret podcast. Trivia segment. Segment segment segment.

Unknown Speaker
Whoa. X. Wait, wait, wait, wait, wait, try. Let’s try this.

Cole May
It’s time for the secret podcast. Trivia segment. Segment. segment shows beautiful. This one

Brett Zingler
what is the what’s the name of this? By the way? It’s time for the secret trivia, trivia, trivia. Trivia trivia. Nice. Are you guys excited? Yeah. I’m okay. You should

Cole May
feel my nipples.

Brett Zingler
You should be nervous. So we had our good friend, and podcast contributor and all around amazing secret. Expert and historian, Christopher preacher. Genius. Put together a couple of questions. They’re like secret trivia questions. We did this before, but it was called did Byron say it? Or did he not say it? And I didn’t do a very good job at that. So I trust Chris a lot more. So you guys ready? Here is our first question. Image 12 is often thought to be the Russia image. But according to the passage to the New World section of the book, the geographic possibilities are much wider. What other region is not explicitly listed as an equally likely alternative to Russia? Okay, I’m going to read you for answers. So I’m giving you one and you can select one of the answers. Okay, ready? A Poland. B Romania. C Tartary. Good. Not gonna lie. Never heard of that. D. Hungary

Bradley Hodges
I don’t have the book in front of me. So I’m Romania with Hungary.

Brett Zingler
Okay, so, okay, so George says, Would you say George

George Ward
Romania. Okay. I don’t remember that when? At all.

Brett Zingler
Okay, and then Bradley said,

Bradley Hodges
I’m gonna go with Hungary. I don’t have the book in front of me. So I’m just I’m just throwing one out there.

Brett Zingler
Okay. And then call.

Cole May
I said Poland. Oh,

Brett Zingler
Poland. Okay, sorry. Okay. The answer is B. So George got a right. Oh,

George Ward
I remembered it was hung. I remember hungry. Was there a

Brett Zingler
milkman? The answer Romania be Romania? Look at the map on page 10. And in fact, the knowledge we have about the general location of that cask does not limit us to the boroughs of New York City. It could be the Tartary cask in New Jersey. Oh, is what Chris is saying. Nice. Yeah. Okay. So we have one for George, and zeros for the other dudes.

Bradley Hodges
Well, this is not negative.

Brett Zingler
And accurate guys all owe me and Chris money right now. So don’t get too in the hole here. If you know. Okay, true or false. Byron price is the author of The Secret. false false. It’s false. You guys suck. Okay, but here’s why. You probably all know. But the book itself lists only Sean Kelly and Ted Man. As authors. It was developed and edited by Byron price, his name does not appear on the cover. No one’s does. And his name is listed along with everyone else’s on the binding. Unless you spent time conversing with community members, or reading queue for tea, you’d never know that price conceived of this project, actually, constructed the puzzles, buried the casks and actually wrote the most important parts of the book.

Bradley Hodges
Or he seen an episode of EU Yeah.

George Ward
Or read an article in 1982

Brett Zingler
or that. But we certainly know a lot more post internet about what he did, because he didn’t reveal all of that, right. Okay, so George is up to or has two points. Bradley and Cole one each. So this is to tie it up guys. And this is the final one. Okay. True or false prices goal with the secret was to imbue readers with a greater appreciation of local history, motivate them to enjoy the great outdoors and bring people together in a larger community.

Bradley Hodges
False fear I’m going to go with false as well because it was a his goal was to uh, what was the the quotation something about creating a new world or something to that effect? I can’t remember. Exactly.

George Ward
Like its goal is to make money.

Bradley Hodges
Oh, well, yeah. Yeah. There’s that as well.

Brett Zingler
But right, if we’re talking like philanthropic type pursuits, he definitely like wanted to create a cool new world a new creatures and do that. But yet, you know, at the end of the day, he’s a publisher. He wants to, he wants to make some money. It that’s That is correct. It

George Ward
is as a businessman doing business things.

Brett Zingler
He’s doing busy, busy businessman things, so. So it is false. He never said any of that. And his goal was almost certainly to turn a profit and move on to the next big thing. And so that would be a clean sweep by our friend George.

Cole May
Yay. I’m smart. nerd.

Unknown Speaker
I’m smart. He had 12 treasures up I saw his desktop. Totally what it was. And that’s it. That’s it for this segment of trivia, trivia, trivia trivia. Okay, that’s it for now. The thumbs up

Brett Zingler
I will tee this up real quick as to where this sort of you know, we’ve been talking about this for a long time but you know, basically the reason why we wanted to cover it now on the on the podcast is that Cole and I were commenting back and forth on something some Facebook post and talking about like similarities and differences and what do we know about the solves and what do we not know? And, and, and then I think that weekend, I sat down to do a sudoku puzzle. And I am terrible with number on like, I’m okay with like word puzzles and crosswords and stuff like that, but I’m terrible with anything number related, basically, right? Which would explain my seven years of ramen eating in college. So like, but it got me thinking, I’m like, Cool, I can google how to how to do Sudoku. And I could probably even like, there’s probably answers there even right like if I needed some Help with it. And I got me thinking about the secret and why it’s so difficult. Or one of the reasons why it’s so difficult is that there’s no like foundation or framework that we can draw from like, I can’t google. Here’s exactly how to do the secret. Here’s some instruction, you’ll get good at it as you as you do it for a while, you’re right. And I’m not going to sit down with a sudoku puzzle, by the way, and start putting in X’s and O’s or putting letters in there. Because I already know that that’s not how you do a sudoku puzzle. So it got me thinking, and then I started talking to you guys and Cole, about like, what if we could find some sort of framework for this thing? What if we could look at the couple of songs that we know, you know, and I’m taking, if you guys agree, I’m taking Boston out of the equation, just there’s it’s a bit of a wildcard, sort of controversial right? For now. But can we take Chicago and Cleveland? And can we? Can we figure out I know, there’s no 100% answer on how exactly these were solved. But like by sort of accumulating and doing some research, could we put together some some sort of, you know, some some steps that the salt took? And then could we compare those two? And what can we draw from comparing those two? Can we build even a modest framework for how you might approach the rest of the puzzles? Could we even use it to help solve Boston or come up with like, a definitive answer for Boston? Right? So so we all thought that that would be kind of a fun thing to talk about. And I will, I will, of course, turn it over to you guys to get a kick started on this thing. But let’s maybe talk about Chicago and start talking about, you know, what, what we know.

George Ward
So what do we want to start with? With Chicago? We want to start with the verse. So we’re gonna start with the image, because I’d imagine we should start with the image, right? Because most people once they get into this puzzle, yeah, that’s what they gravitate towards. Absolutely. Everybody grabs your magnifying glass, they look at these images. And that’s all they do. Like everybody seems to think that, that these images will give you like a precise, you know, one by one dig spot location where that was absolutely not the case in Chicago. It was absolutely not the case in Cleveland. The the images, didn’t they help you? They help get you there. But they didn’t, they didn’t give you the dig spot. The verse did that. So in Chicago, Chicago was really, really super easy. It was it was really, really cut and dry. There was a lot of one to one image matches in Chicago. And they were they were in things that were in the verse as well. We had a big major monument in Chicago, we had the Chicago water tower. What that’s what, what Rob saw first, when he when he realized it was Chicago, he saw the water tower, and he was like God, Chicago,

Cole May
the fountain fairy,

George Ward
we had the fountain berries. That was fountain of the Great Lakes. We had the Bowman, which was a pretty major monument in Chicago. We had

the fence,

the fence in the fixture, which you wouldn’t know about until you’re at the dig spot.

Bradley Hodges
Well, let me challenge that since we’re wanting to stay strictly defects. We know the fence is there. We don’t know if the fixture is is what is in the painting or not. We really don’t know what fixture is.

George Ward
Chicago was kind of cut and dry when it came to the image. And it seemed like the image and the verse sort of they really complemented each other really well. Right. One of one of Robin and an Eric’s things when when they first solved Chicago one of the errors that was eventually found out to be an error and their solve was they thought that the Bowman statue was was mnb let me let me just I’ll read the verse to you real quick. So you know what we’re talking about. The verse for Chicago is where m and b are set in stone and to Congress R is known. l sits left beyond his shoulder is the fair folks treasure holder. The end of 10 by 13 is your clue, fence and fixture central to for finding the jewel cask seek the sounds of rumble brush and music Hush. So that’s your verse, right. Rob And Eric saw the Bowman in the painting assumed the Bowman was mnb because man and beast and sort of went from there. We know what the Japanese sense that m and b are supposed to be composers are musicians of some sort. And we’ve come to find out that m and b is Mozart and Beethoven which is on Chicago Symphony just above the door. It’s Mozart, Beethoven and Bach. You can choose one of the bees if you want. And what’s interesting is if you’re standing there looking at those M and bees and you turn around behind you, you see the bury the mountain it’s literally Line of Sight directly behind you. So you know because you see this thing is in the painting you see this thing that’s in the verse you’re at the right starting point you follow the verse from that it says and to Congress are is known. You know that you’re supposed to be going down Congress Parkway as you’re walking down Congress Parkway. You see the Bowman that’s also in the image. So it complements itself. Yeah, once you get to the home and you’re looking for L sits left you can see there’s a sitting Lincoln monument the monuments literally called sitting Lincoln’s Lincoln sitting on on a chair, or whatever else it’s left. So you know that l beyond his shoulder, is the Fairfax treasure holder. So you go beyond his shoulder, and the end of 10 by 13. There’s only one thing down there, that could be the end of 10 by 13. It’s a row of 10 and a row of 13 trees. The end of 10 by 13. Is your clue go to the end of those to look for the clue, fence and fixture you see the fence in the painting, you know you’re at the right spot, boom, dead easy. You know, finding the act, the exact dig site from that little bit tricky. It’s been 30 years, what 40 years. Rob And Eric don’t even remember exactly where it was that guest if you look at their, their interview from 1983, it’s you know, they’re one side of the one side of that area a couple of years ago, with James Renner, his interview, they were in a different spot than on Expedition unknown, they were a different spot. It’s been a long time, so they don’t remember exactly where you need to dig. But getting to that spot was pretty cut and dry was Chicago.

Bradley Hodges
So what about the idea that 10 by 13 may have been feet that you had to mark off as an intersection, I believe that came from Brian. And Andy, when they talked to Byron in New York, he’s the in casual conversation, I think they mentioned that Byron said that he thought it may have been 10 by 13 feet. What do we think about that?

George Ward
I mean, I don’t know. All I know if there’s 10 by 13 trees, or there were that’s like a, I guess it’s an unknown, maybe it’s one maybe it’s the other boat. But well, at the end of 10 by 13 is your clue you’re sitting at L, you need a way to get to the fence post, right? The 10 by 13 is the step you need to take in between L and the fence. Right? So it’s got to be something physical, it can’t be like else, it’s left and beyond the shoulder as the Fairfax treasure holder. You just go down there and Mark 10 methods. What you see what I’m saying? I mean, I guess you could do 10 by 13 feet from the fence posts and the fixture? I don’t know it’s an unknown.

Brett Zingler
And actually in 2018. Eric, one of the one of the group, you know, with Rob and and their team that that solve this one said that this is that that point that 10 by 13 Point was where things fell apart for Him. And in fact, he said this is this is where things fell apart since counting out trees didn’t add up. And the next line caused him to focus actually on the wrong area. And at that point, he was only about however, he was only about 20 feet away from the final spot, he said. And he had veered off a literal interpretation which led him to the statue. And then he thought the fence was the spot. So that 10 to 10 by 13 pieces sort of throw them off and is also up for definitely all this time after still up for debate.

George Ward
Right? Yeah. But I mean going by going from the verse right now, it should be something physical, like the verse hasn’t had you guessed to do anything. Right? The verse has been everything has been very physical. Everything’s been very descriptive and simple. mnb stone Mozart and Beethoven are set in stone, Congress Parkway, LeanKit fencepost. It’s all been very, very, very visual. And very,

Brett Zingler
let me ask you a question then. So did anything in the image besides the fence, I guess there’s a fence and fixture fixture in the image. Right. Or at least the fence at least the fence right? Did anything in the image point them specifically and I think this is the point you guys are trying to make. Point them specifically to the oh, this is the spot besides kind of give them more general clues about Oh, this must be in Chicago.

George Ward
Well, everything in this image. No. You everything in this image. If you were from Chicago, you would have probably known about you would have probably the water tower, you’re probably you would have probably maybe may have known about the film. But none of it would have made sense unless you follow the verse and the verse called out bake those important things. So I see what you’re getting at, is there a way to take this image by itself and know where to dig? No, right.

Bradley Hodges
And I think the same thing can be said, and vice versa. So you have the verse, you may have been able to figure out with just the verse of the area. But having the image in that, that that fence, being in the image is what solidifies that you’re in the right spot, once you get to the end of the verse. So you obviously need them in tandem. But neither of them is going to get you there by themselves by any stretch of the imagination.

Brett Zingler
So there’s something that you will notice in the image that when you get to the right spot, holy crap, I saw that in the image. I feel like I’m in the I’m in the right area,

George Ward
right, or at least going along the way. You know, there’s there’s got to be something that’s self referential, in these tell you, you’re on the right spot.

Bradley Hodges
So yeah, so for Chicago and Cleveland, I don’t want to jump ahead. But for Chicago and Cleveland, we both once you’re there. And if you’re looking at the image, and you’re looking at where you’re standing, you know you’re there. Yeah.

Brett Zingler
Right. Right. And that’s kind of the point. And kind of where we’re trying to go with this whole discussion. Is it that you can’t, you can’t just take the image and go, Oh, my God, this has got to be Albuquerque, because it’s got that thing in it. Right. It’s the image is going to tell you generally, right, give you some clues to the jet to the state, the city. It’s got the latitude and longitude, some of them, right, yeah. But you have to combine it with the verse to even get anywhere close.

George Ward
Well, the thing about Chicago Cleveland, since we’re talking about them specifically, they’ve got a lot more in them that tell you the city. They’ve got you’ve got the water tower, right, but it’s also a windmill, and what Chicago known as the wind, right? Now, you would think to yourself, that’s kind of stretchy. But we’ve seen the two sketches for Chicago, we’ve seen the two previous sketches, right. And we know in one sketch that windmill was a boat sail. And we know in the second sketch, that windmill was a windmill, but there was also a wind stock. So we know that wind was important to this painting. So we know He is literally trying to tell you Windy City with that. Right? So there’s a lot of things that should work in tandem to give you, the city, there’s a lot of things that should work in tandem to tell you you’re on the right track. But they’re all very obvious. It’s very obvious what they are in relation to Chicago at least. Does that make sense?

Bradley Hodges
Holy shit. Yeah. So here’s an idea. Just you don’t have to keep this by guests. If you don’t want to, that’s fine. But this just an idea of basically what you just said, just kind of thing. So in the Wizard of Oz, the Scarecrow doesn’t know which way to go. And he points in both directions. And in because he’s lost, he’s like, I don’t know, this way, that way. And in the Roanoke image, the scarecrow is pretty much pointing in both directions. For maybe he’s lost. Maybe the last colony. Just throw that out there. Go ahead.

Cole May
Yeah, no, that makes sense.

Brett Zingler
We have a potential discovery on our hands here live. A live discovery. Okay.

Cole May
Can I enter a moment? Yes. And I was gonna

Brett Zingler
say, cool. You can jump in at any time. You, you know?

Bradley Hodges
Oh, yeah, absolutely. Anytime. Yeah, I just want to keep it cool. One sec.

Cole May
No, I’m kidding. Are you done? I know, I know. I know. It’s okay. Okay, so I think we need to sit back a second and look at what we just did. All right. Like, we just pieced apart the image and the verse together and figured out why they work in tandem. Right, the fence is in the verse, it’s in the image, you know, Congress and all that kind of stuff. And I think like, that’s the point of what we were trying to do here today was we’re trying to figure out how to solve them essentially. Right. And so like, the questions need to be asked what we just parsed out, right. So we have things like, you know, like the Bowman, the water tower, and ferry, you know, these are things that are tangibly out there in real life. Right. And I think it’s important to find those in all of them, right, like I think all the pictures at least like all the images, at least have things in them that are um, You know, in real life, things, right? You know what I’m saying? And I think like, it’s, like, it’s important to look at what we just did. Because it’s, you know, we’re trying to find ways to find the proper information, because I think that’s one of the biggest questions people new people have is how do I like, where do I start? How do I play this game? Right? And in order to tell them that we need to sit down and parse Well, how did the people that have done this the right way, you know, how did they get that information? You know, like, I would argue that, you know, given like, we know, Byron thought that this would be solved, or I think he was quoted once to saying that it would have been done in in like, a couple of years kind of thing. And I think that he thought that because he, like he thought people from Chicago would solve Chicago, and people from Cleveland would solve Cleveland, and so on and so forth. Right, like the people that lived in the towns of the puzzles, were gonna be the ones that solved it, the quickest. And that’s why he could put things like the Water Tower in Chicago, because somebody there knew, that’s what it was, right? Like, that’s the Chicago water tower. And, you know, the columns in Cleveland, like those guys saw that. And, you know, so I think, like, if you can look at each image and, and figure out like, some of them are really, really difficult to see, like in St. Augustine, for instance, is probably one of the only ones that, you know, it’s probably the hardest one to see. Things that may or may not be a real life thing, right? Like, you look at certain images like Boston, and like a birds of Burj, you know what I mean, a falcon is a falcon, it didn’t matter really what that bird was in Boston, you know, the actual box that she’s holding in that image, you know, might just be representative of the cask, you know, but those flags are real life flags, right? Like you’ll see them in the real world somewhere. So, you know, learning how to discern discern between what’s art, and what’s real life stuff, I think is a is a really good first step refer for analyzing images.

George Ward
And piggybacking off of that one of the pitfalls that I see especially new members go go through is nothing in the in the Chicago salt. Required your knowledge to go past what the words in front of you where it can be are set in stone. That’s Mozart, Beethoven, you don’t need to know anything about Mozart and Beethoven. It’s two words set in stone. And to Congress R is known. You don’t have to know anything about Congress. You just have to know Congress Parkway, then 10 by 13 is your clue. I mean, arguably, that requires no math. It’s descriptive. It’s it’s self descriptive. You don’t have to know history. You don’t have to know local history. There’s no obscure knowledge. You don’t have to dive into a book for any of this. It’s all literally right there in front of you. But it’s obscure, because it only fits one place. Right? If you’re not in that one place. The verse doesn’t make sense. Once you’re in that place, the verse makes perfect sense.

Brett Zingler
Right. And it’s interesting. So I was reading through what again, I’m referring back to what, in 2018. Eric writing about what he could remember what is that? 40 years? 3040 years later? 40 years later, right? Yeah, close enough. Yeah. 83 to 2018 something to that effect. I told you I’m bad with numbers but like so he’s remembering back and he’s writing it out. And basically, like the way that he said that they stumbled onto this and they literally, I mean, he basically as he writes this, he’s saying that we stumbled into this is that one one of their friends bought it bought the book. They started asking some family friends about statues in downtown Chicago. Eric bought a map he noticed that the of downtown Chicago and notice that Congress ran right between the statues. He was talking to a buddy of his about this whose father was overly uh, who overheard the conversation and said, Hey, there’s a railroad that runs right there, right, because he worked for the railroad, I believe or knew somebody that worked for the railroad. So then he takes a train to the city, and he’s standing down there, and then he sees Lincoln and like, so like back to your point, Georgia you’re better off knowing your environs be the best at knowing the stuff in the in the city around you rather than rather than trying to understand history and and all of these obscure subjects. You’re better off having an uncle that worked for the railroad. You know what I mean? Like, it’s

Bradley Hodges
everyone that’s been solved so far. has been solved by somebody who lived well, nope, that’s a lie, not Cleveland. That is a big fat lie. But two of the three that have been found so far have been found by somebody who lived in that area. So yeah, there’s, there’s a huge advantage. And going back to what Cole was saying earlier about that advantage. So when we were in San Francisco, Matt, Matthew sparks was talking about his solve. And he made mention of the rose and Angel Island, and I was like, I don’t, I don’t get the connection. But what does this have anything to was Angel Island? And then he put it out to me as like, holy crap. How did you? He lives there. He he sees these things on the daily he knows what’s what. So yeah, yeah, it’s a huge advantage to

Brett Zingler
you. They’re saying that it looks that it looks like from above that it looks like Angel Island. Is that what? Yep. Right. Yeah. It also looks well, anyway, I won’t forget, I won’t go I won’t go down that path. We’re trying to figure out the framework. Sorry, guys. Let’s get to the point. But that is exactly it. And the thing that sucks a bit about this, and I’m not gonna say it’s like ruins was ruined forever, or something is, things have changed, right?

George Ward
We’re not really in Chicago, like in Chicago, you could walk this entire verse still. And and it still makes sense.

Brett Zingler
And but what I’m saying is that maybe maybe things have changed in that. I mean, maybe it’s so either. That one was the easiest one. I’m just, again, speculating here. Maybe that was the easiest one. And it happened to be doable by some some dudes that had an uncle and a book and a map and like, stumbled into downtown Chicago and went, Wow, look at this. Where I’ve maybe the landscape has changed slightly for the other ones, or? I don’t know. I don’t know. I know, there’s a bit of luck to all this too, right? Because with the Chicago one, didn’t they have to throw a shovel at the sight of behold that they done? We’re kind of giving up and frustrated,

Bradley Hodges
even after they had the photo from Byron, and they dug their hole? The huge hole? Yeah, he had sudden found it they gave up. And from what I understand their story was they threw their spade into the hole. And a sliver of dirt literally just fell off the side of where the casket? I mean, can you imagine that moment?

George Ward
That’s what I love about the first two solutions that were both solved out of frustration, right for the people.

Brett Zingler
Right before they were about to go exactly like and and those guys that Chicago had a picture of the spot. Yep. Now, it may have just been a picture of a patch of grass. I don’t know. I don’t know what the picture was. I don’t I don’t recall. But, you know, my point is like they had they got a picture. And they still almost missed it. You know? So, like, so things change is what what I’m saying. And then even if they don’t change, they’re still even if you know where exactly where it’s at. It’s still it’s still going to be hard. But anyway, we all know that already. But I just I find that I find that piece. Fascinating. So So what do we know so far? Let’s recap. Right? We know that the image can only get you to two, it can give you some city clues. It can give you some state clues. It can you know, I think there’s word there there’s rebuses and things like that the Boston Pops. Right. There’s there’s the Milwaukee Rebus with the Milwaukee, right, so there’s some word play.

Cole May
We’ll see. And that’s what I was talking about earlier, where you need to learn like how to discern like, I’m going to use Chicago again. Because like we say it’s probably the easiest of the solves. I mean, next to Cleveland if you’re there but like you have the the tower and the Bowman and but then you also have like the I heard speculation that the earring, the one hearing is the Chicago Bulls logo, you know what I mean? And then there’s the, the one earring is is actually on a balcony, the symbol that’s in that earring is on a balcony somewhere there. So I guess that would that would count as a real world thing. But like I kind of, I look at them as so you have monuments and buildings or what I call real world things. And then you have like icons and stuff like that. And I believe Matt sparks actually touched on this on the old Cleveland podcast, like the very first one that you guys did. And you know, he mentioned is what he called the icon to treasure idea. And I don’t know enough about that theory to, to say anything about it. But I think like it’s when you learn the way that these guys solved it. And when you finally see where the treasure came from, you know, like in the Cleveland image you’re standing like if you’re just looking at that picture, you’re at the gardens looking at the wall. And on the other side of that wall is the treasure, right? So, you know, in Chicago, the fence piece, you know, is arguably the most important part of the image because it’s right there. When you find that when you get to the next slide, right, but, you know, things like the Chicago Bulls logo, or you know, the flower that’s on the wall in Cleveland or the centaur, right, which is, you know, denotes the Greek garden kind of thing. You know, those are different types of information. And once you figure that out, and you know what, how to kind of separate stuff out, you know, I think you’re at a better, you have a better chance, then rather than just saying, like relying strictly on image or strictly on verse, you know, like, that’s a step, I think it’s one of the earlier steps is that you have to discern those pieces of information out, and then figure it out, because that’s how you kind of get to the city in a in a sense with just the image, right?

George Ward
There’s a couple of other points that should be made, because people have asked about Chicago. So here’s two things. Distance, how far is the first clue from the last clue in Chicago, if you were to start at MMB, and ended that fence post is less than a half a mile. If you were to walk the whole thing, less than a half a mile, the water tower is 1.3 miles away from the fence post. But that’s not part of the not really part of the path. It’s part of the they have you go down, right, half a mile. It’s it’s like two city blocks. The reason it’s a half a mile is because you go down to city blocks, you go over, you go back up, it’s but that’s what it is. If you’re standing at the fence post, you can basically see the start of the verse from there. So it’s not a huge distance. There’s no real travel.

Guys, guys, do we just want to jump back into this? Or do we want to let everybody know that it should help people because

Brett Zingler
basically audio? Okay, okay, audio, Francis, we,

George Ward
you know, we had a little bit of a technical difficulty. And we started recording the first step, the first part of this episode, probably about about a month ago, right? Then we had a little break, and now we’re back. So hey,

Bradley Hodges
hey, yeah, so you might have heard in the beginning of this podcast, me getting all excited about Secret Santa and how everybody should make sure to participate and send their gifts. But now that it’s been about a month later, I think they’re due tomorrow. So by the time you hear this, they probably would have been doing a couple of days ago. So I hope everybody got their gifts sent out on time and hope everybody got something awesome. There is a post on the Facebook page where everybody’s kind of sharing what they received, if they feel inclined to do so. So please do that’s part of the fun is celebrating with everybody, what they received and all the awesomeness we’ve seen some pretty cool, genuine gifts so far. So thanks, everybody that’s participated.

George Ward
Somebody made a key out of felt for me. It was pretty cool. Like a cast key. Like now now that I say it, like out of my mouth. That sounds lame, but it was didn’t hear that what why are in it. Now now, this just felt, but it was really detailed. It was nice.

Bradley Hodges
Was it heartfelt?

George Ward
It was not heartfelt. It was soft. It was what

Bradley Hodges
it was a heartfelt gift.

George Ward
Ah, gotcha. All right.

Brett Zingler
Is that how to starting rapidly?

Bradley Hodges
This is starting to drive the jokes.

Brett Zingler
So yeah, so that was a month long. Technology problem fixing period break. So that’s gonna be our voice is probably sound different. They probably sound a lot better. Don’t you guys think? Like, we’re professional? Yeah, we sound really good right now. So so we got through that, where we left off, I believe we were wrapping up, you guys will have to remind me we were wrapping up Chicago, and we were getting into Cleveland. But we didn’t quite like we had a problem. Didn’t quite get there. So I think the best way to start if you guys agree is we can have Cole walk us back through what we know the facts about the Cleveland cask find, right? And then we can start talking about similarities and differences. And then maybe if we have some time we can we can go to bed bath and beyond. I mean, we can tell you this week, we can tell you they’re

Bradley Hodges
great sales and the Christmas stuff.

Brett Zingler
How does that sound?

Cole May
That sounds tasty bread.

Brett Zingler
And then some exciting news happened during this couple actually a couple of days ago that we’re gonna talk about at the end.

George Ward
Did somebody find a cask?

Bradley Hodges
Somebody found something far more monetarily valuable than a cask?

Brett Zingler
That’s true. Yeah, they actually alive people look for these things. Yeah. What are we doing? Should we not get somebody?

Bradley Hodges
A person that is pretty awesome in my book?

Brett Zingler
Yeah, yeah, she’s great. Okay, so we’ll get to that later on though. Yep. So cool.

George Ward
What Do we know about Cleveland man?

Cole May
Well, we know that it was basically found with Google. Yeah,

Brett Zingler
so let’s move on to Boston.

Cole May
Now that we’ve covered Cleveland,

Brett Zingler
don’t do that to us. Cool. Come on.

Cole May
Okay, so I’m going to give it to you in two parts. I’m going to talk about things in the image, actually, I guess I’m going to talk to you about it in four parts is how we’re going to kind of discuss it, because I’m going to split up the image in the various in two categories, okay. And those categories are things that mean or symbolize things, and things that are actual real world things. Okay. And we’ll start with the image, we’ll start with the image because that’s where everybody starts with these books with these puzzles in this book, and so as far as like things that are actually things that they would have had to have found and used to find the cask in the image are like the the walls and the call or the wall and the columns, like the the interesting thing about these puzzles that I’m finding is that if you’re at the spot, and you look at the image, you’re gonna see the spot in the image. Right, and, and like Cleveland is the most obvious of those. The ones found that fit under that kind of category. Because if you’re standing between those columns, or just, you know, this side of the columns, looking at the wall, you know, you’re looking at pretty much the the image, right? So the wall and columns are what I consider things that are things right. The tree Tower, or what was it called? Bradley, sorry, the tower of trees, the building that’s in the trees?

Bradley Hodges
I totally pulling your leg on that. It’s it is called trouble tower? Yeah, nobody calls it a tower tree, I was just kind of giving you a hard time.

Cole May
That is the terminal. New Grad. Number two, okay. So, of course, the law or outline of Ohio, right, with the two major highways in it, that, you know, that’s another one of those things, that is a thing that’s actually there in real world. And then as far as things that, you know, are just symbols or mean something completely different. You know, we have things like, we’ve speculated that the triangle is a symbol in geometry, and that would lead you to the Greek immigration reference. The litany of the jewels, gives us the the jewel itself, the aquamarine and helis people, which were Greek people. They were that’s a Greek culture. We have as well, the L with the bell sitting next to it at the bottom of the image. And we said before that that is a symbol of makes you think of the Liberty Bell, which would be symbolic of Liberty Avenue, which is, of course the road that those gardens is founded upon.

Bradley Hodges
Used to be that road name hasn’t changed, but it was originally liberalized. Okay, sorry,

Cole May
my mistake. That’s my Canadian ignorance towards American geography, I guess. And then, of course, we have the reverse latitude and longitude on the highest in in the image. I’ve also said to you before, that the center is a symbol of Greek mythology. And so that would also lend credence to the immigration reference. Now, whether or not they actually found an immigration reference and use that as a way to solve their puzzle, I think is a completely different conversation than what we’re doing here. Like what I’m showing you here is just what we know to be true. Given the things we found in the image and in, you know, when we move on to the verse, the verses as well, yeah,

Brett Zingler
and and again, we’re not spec, we’re doing our best to not speculate and put words into the finders mouths, right. We’re gonna do, like going from what we’ve heard and what we’ve read. And what they’ve told us. Is, is facts. Good.

Bradley Hodges
Yeah. And talking about things that are in the image that are on site. Also they are, there’s a little fountain along the wall at the bottom of the Italian gardens. And that fountain is also in the image. So that’s there as well.

Brett Zingler
Did you say there was a building in there?

George Ward
Yeah, the Terminal Tower. It’s in downtown Cleveland. It’s upside down in the trees.

Cole May
Okay. Oh, I want to just if you don’t mind, I want to just say one thing about this because as a rookie looking at these things, you know, you don’t really know what it is you’re supposed to be looking for. First and this is why I think it’s important to categorize things as symbols or you know, are representations of actual things that are there, right? Because if you saw an image that had a building in it that looked really specific, but you couldn’t figure out what it was, chances are, it’s an actual building somewhere, right? This Cago water tower, you know, in that picture, it fits really well as a piece of a space little hospital. But it’s other pieces in there of building, it’s most unique. Compared to the rest, right, that goes other towers in Chicago look like just castle towers, right, like just normal regular castle towers, and the water tower is, is quite a bit different. And so, you know, when you’re looking for things to look for, and you want to find things that might be real world items, you kind of have to think like like that, right? That, that he wouldn’t just put the representation of a building there for the sake of putting it there. If you can identify a building that fits that representation, you know, then that’s, it’s got to be important, right?

Bradley Hodges
Yeah, I think kind of what we talked, touched on earlier, when we talked about Chicago, as well as if you’re local, you definitely have the advantage. For instance, you know, that’s that’s how Robin company figured out the water tower. You know, they’re local, they saw it, they’re like, holy crap, this is Chicago, what else can we find? If you’re from Cleveland, and you were into that image, you most likely would have recognized that Terminal Tower and said, Holy crap, this is in my hometown, what else can I find? And you know, going from there? So you know, that’s, that’s definitely, definitely an advantage to be from where one of them is hidden.

Cole May
Well, and even if you are from like, Canton, Ohio, you could do the same just knowing the this the shape of Ohio, right, like seeing that in there, you know, at least it was in that state, because you too are also in that state.

Bradley Hodges
True? Yeah. That is one of the more obvious state outlines. Yeah, definitely. Did you you mentioned the fountain right. The not the fountain at the Italian gardens, but the fountain, the big bowl fountain. That’s an image as well in front of the Centaur. Okay, cool.

Cole May
No, no, we didn’t. I mentioned that it’s there. I didn’t go into any detail on it. I would assume that was just the fountain itself, like the Italian gardens found of

George Ward
the bowl Bradley’s talking about is what it’s in between the Greek and the and the Italian gardens, right. It’s up on the hill. And between the two. Yeah, yeah. So there’s, there’s a whole lot of stuff in this image, probably more than in any other image that’s just right there. And we know Alan Carr. He didn’t come up with a spot. But this was his hometown. This was where he lived. So it was super easy for him to just swing by the park and take a bunch of references. He knew it. He knew the park really well. So he was able to pick out what he wanted to paint and put exactly what he wanted in the image. So this is really, really, like image heavy for the location.

Bradley Hodges
Did you say John did not pick out that spot? I was under the impression. That’s the one spot he did pick?

Unknown Speaker
I don’t think he picked it out. I don’t I don’t? I don’t know. I don’t know. It may be I know he was with Byron, when he was there to dig. He might have picked it out. But I’m not sure I don’t. That’s not really a question I’ve ever asked. And maybe we’ll get the chance to maybe. But it fits. It fits with the puzzle. And you know, it’s the Greek cultural gardens. There’s, you know, there’s not really many other places in Cleveland, you could bury it. Maybe you did, who knows?

Brett Zingler
So that’s interesting. Now, it wasn’t just this, even though they knew where it was, they still couldn’t really find it. Right. Right. And we heard the story about that in a previous podcast where they read, I don’t know, they read the instructions wrong, or who knows what

George Ward
No, I mean, they followed the verse correctly. But I mean, I personally, I don’t know this for a fact. But I personally think they left off the last instruction. I mean, the verse tells you, so let’s go through the verse real quick, since we’re talking about the verse, The verse says, beneath two countries as the road curves and a rectangular plot, beneath the 10 stone from right to left beneath the knightstone from the top of the wall, including small bricks, seven steps, seven steps up, you can hop from the bottom level, so crates Pindar appellees. Free Speech couplet birch to find the casks that’s the nation seek the columns for the search.

Brett Zingler
Can I enter what? Yes, yes, you’re gonna have some editing to do because it’s Socrates and not so great. So great.

Bradley Hodges
You got dude, have you not seen any unreasonable? He’s got it

Brett Zingler
from Bill and whatever.

George Ward
It’s so great to know. Bill and Ted, Bill and Ted.

Brett Zingler
So anyway, just saying in case you don’t want to edit that out later, you can leave it it’s all good. I don’t care.

George Ward
I’m totally I’m going to call the man so crates for the rest of his life. Alright, Socratic method depends named Stoker.

Bradley Hodges
What is the name that is mentioned for the Boston puzzle? Theca Denise? Yes. So this is so great.

George Ward
Great. So all right, so, so what they did with this was everybody was kind of at a loss, Brian and Andy were thinking this was in Philadelphia, because of the Liberty Bell or whatever. And then somebody on quest for treasure, Google the names, so crates, Pindar and appellees. And it just so happened that like a couple of months before, the Cleveland cultural gardens had put all the information about this park on the internet. And they found literally the names. Once they saw the ones they saw the names in the Google search, they saw the, the planter box, they saw the columns and the pictures on the website, they knew it was there, they just had to straight there. They dug, they followed the verse, They went, you know, they they went to the back of the planter box, they counted the ninth row from the top, and they went up seven steps, they counted everything right, and they weren’t in the wrong spot. My personal opinion is they ignored a very specific part of this verse. And the last part, seek the columns for the search. If you go back to the columns, if you if you if you put position yourself at the angle of this image stand between the two columns, then start counting, you end up at the exact spot you need to dig

Brett Zingler
into the wall. Okay, so they kind of they either ignored it or miss missed it a little bit. And a little confusing, it’s a little confusing, which I think all of the you know, the fence and fixture is also a little weird and confusing and a tough kind of final step to follow. Right? So even even that, you know, even in that one, it was kind of the same thing. There’s a little bit of luck interpretation. You know, then they gave up.

George Ward
Yeah, there might be a little twist in each of these little endings. Not not maybe not a twist, but a way of interpreting the exact instructions that we haven’t quite figured out. Because even knowing the answer for Chicago, we can’t tell you where you’re supposed to dig. We just can’t do it. Nobody knows. And throughout the years, Rob has given different spots like in 1982 and 1983. Whenever the interviewer was on the news, they said they were digging next to the wall. With the Renner interview they said they were digging over by the trees and with the expedition unknown interview, they were in another place. And with another interview they were they don’t even remember where they were digging. And we can’t figure it out with a verse. So there’s probably a little thing at the end that we just can’t we haven’t figured out yet.

Bradley Hodges
Yeah. And it before we get the emails and the letters and the phone calls. We know it’s through cities. And we know it’s Socrates. It’s jokes, and we have fun with it. So let us have fun. The going back to wanting to separate make sure the theme of this podcast is we want to make sure that we’re talking about facts what we know to be true. So like Georgia, saying it’s kind of a theory, we’re not 100% certain about how how do you make sure you’re you’re reading it backwards and counting backwards to get to the spot. We don’t know for sure. In my opinion, the line that Georgia is talking about with the seat, the columns for your search is similar to the theory behind Roanoke, where it says, The Land beside the window, I think it’s telling you this image goes with this verse, seek the columns for your search, look for the image with the columns. That’s going to be the image of the parish with this verse. That’s just my theory again, not that we want us because facts. So that’s just I’m just throwing that out there. I have no idea what gets you to count backwards in that. whatsoever.

Cole May
You raise a good point, though, Bradley.

George Ward
That’s not really it’s it’s tricky. It’s, it’s it’s really stretchy. I don’t know.

Brett Zingler
I don’t I don’t mind it. I don’t mind it. I mean, and we’re looking for things like okay, but is that did they use? Did they use that for the fines? Do they use the reverse image? Well, I mean,

George Ward
fencing fixture they use Yeah.

Bradley Hodges
If they do we know that?

George Ward
Yeah, the fence post.

Bradley Hodges
I mean, we know the fence post lines up with it, but did they use the fence post in the image of match it with the fence post in person? Because I don’t remember ever coming up in conversation?

George Ward
Yeah, cuz it was the weird one with the halo. Like they knew immediately. That was what

Bradley Hodges
it was. They didn’t fix yours on that fence had a halo. Yeah, but one, but

George Ward
they didn’t know what that shape was until they got to the park. And they were like, oh, that’s that fence

Brett Zingler
post. And in that thing that I read in that email that I read last time he brings that up. Oh, Eric. Yeah, yeah. All right. So

George Ward
but no in Boston, in Boston, they didn’t know about the home plate. They they didn’t know the home plate was in the image until Palancar told them like that was a big huge surprise. So they didn’t use that. They use the columns in the planner and Cleveland though. I mean, that was how they found the site.

Bradley Hodges
The home plate Boston was talked about by a large amount of people before Palin card. It

George Ward
was it was but they didn’t that. What’s his face? Jason? He didn’t use it. Oh, gotcha. Or at least that’s what you know. We’re told behind the scenes, whatever. Like they weren’t aware until Powell and cards hold them.

Bradley Hodges
So of all the finders so far crew, Pat has been very close to the vest with everything. He’s done the show with EU. And I think he’s done like a few side touring interviews with Josh with a couple of media outlets, but nothing really in depth. So I’d love to pick Jason’s brain at some point if he’s ever available. Jason, if you listened to our podcast, or if you’re somebody listening to podcasts and knows Jason, let him know, you know, we’re, the community is super interested, and just having an opportunity for him to tell his story and to get to the details that maybe they didn’t have time to do on the show. Yeah, I don’t know.

Brett Zingler
Any of any of you guys ever talked to Jason before?

George Ward
I haven’t. I talked. I talked to him a cup. Like we sent maybe seven or eight messages back and forth. Right after EU and he said he would be super amped to do the podcast. But and I told him I was like, the little bit that we talked I told him I was like, if you want to come on and you want to tell your story, and we want to talk to you, we’ll be sure to we want we’re not you know, we’re not going to hit you really hard. We’re not going to make you look like no, we’re not gonna make you look dumb. We have no interest. Like, yeah, but then it just stopped the conversation stopped. I know EU was for back in the day was thinking about making more episodes. And I think he was involved in that. And I think there was a, like an NDA. I don’t know. That’s just what I heard. You know,

Brett Zingler
less. Like, it’s not like people like coming on with us. I mean, like, we could barely get coal in here. I mean, coal, we’re talking my age and bitches.

George Ward
And we’re like, it’s like the fourth thing. When the Forrest Fenn treasure was found people pounded that dude, and they like, they still don’t really know anything about the salt but they pound that guy for being you know, a liar or being fake or whatever. And it was the same with croup at and, you know, I’m guilty of it as well, when when crew Pat soft came out, and he just got pounded for being wrong, because a lot of it was wrong. So I think that maybe a little bit it was he was worried about that, like, people were just going to hit him for being wrong.

Brett Zingler
I didn’t believe it. And I still am not convinced by it. But that doesn’t mean like he’s wrong. You know, like, I have no idea. I just wasn’t gonna be respectful. Yeah, yeah. And it wasn’t. It wasn’t that I and we should start talking about Boston, by the way for done with Cleveland. But it wasn’t that I that, that I thought it was wrong. I just didn’t, that solution to me would not get me kind of jumping out of my seat and digging at a plate and Tupelo. Pulo. Park.

George Ward
I mean, it had some it had some good. So here’s, here’s my takeaway from Chicago and Cleveland, before we moved on to Boston, I can explain to you like, it doesn’t take an entire episode of the podcast to explain Chicago’s assault to you, right? We’re gonna do it five minutes. You know, this was this, and this was this, and this was this. And you’re Nick here. Same with Cleveland, this was this, and this was this, and this was this and you dig here? Just follow the verse. You know, you don’t have to know the history of Sokrates. Socrates, you don’t have to know the history of Pindar you don’t have to know the history of appellees. You know, a rectangular plot is not some, you know, strange coded reference to Peru or whatever. fence and fixture just mean fence and fish, you know what I’m saying? Yeah, it’s very cut and dry. It’s very do this, do that? Yeah. It’s, it’s, it’s, it’s vague. And it’s hard, because it only applies to one place, anywhere else, it doesn’t make sense, just in that one place,

Brett Zingler
you kind of need to be there to really make sense of exactly like you guys were saying before, it’s a lot easier and a lot more effective to be a native of that of that place, because you’re gonna recognize things and you’re gonna be on site.

George Ward
I mean, even even with Cleveland, right, knowing the solution for Cleveland, if you were just using Google Maps, you couldn’t solve it. You know, if you were just using Google Maps, it would be difficult to find all of the pieces of this painting, it would be difficult to find the index. But

Brett Zingler
that’s an awesome point that I hadn’t thought about. Right? Because Are we at a disadvantage? Because we have access to so much information now? Oh, I think absolutely. Yeah, we totally are complicating the heck out of this thing, right? And we’re overthinking it. And, you know, we see a name and we go to Wikipedia, and we’re like, oh, he was the president of the wheat farmers club and 18 Sigma Whew. It’s got to be the wheat from that needs to be Thomas and Thomas was a type of maps, and you know, all these crazy things. So we’re doing to ourselves, and we’re just like, we’re going further away from it when really like you just said, it actually, you know, of course, hindsight is 2020. And when you know the solution, but like, like, it’s pretty simple to explain what’s 1982? Yeah. And it’s, and it’s kind of like it was the verse is kind of like instructions once once you kind of get close to it, right? Once you find the right spot, just follow the instructions, and you’ll have a cast. There really isn’t. And I’m telling you, that’s why we’re doing this episode.

Bradley Hodges
And a lot harder is following the instructions to find the right spot. Yeah. Right. Instructions once you have the right spot, super easy. Finding the right spot by using the instructions not so easy. Reading the solution.

Brett Zingler
Reading the solution is a lot easier than actually having to come up with it too. Well,

George Ward
I think I think let’s take Roanoke, for instance. Right, Bradley, you and I have been to Roanoke. But we’ve also worked on the Roanoke puzzle having not been to Roanoke, right? Yes. Once you get to Roanoke, and you start on the path of the of the puzzle, it takes you to a very specific spot. Absolutely, you know, and then finding a spot to dig in that very specific spot is difficult for two reasons. Number one, it’s changed a lot since 1982. And number two, there’s a lot of police around. So but but if you’re not on site, like when you’re trying to solve that from Google, it’s hard. Because you can’t, you can’t see on the Internet, what you can see in real life, you can’t follow it on the internet. You can’t follow the verse on the internet the way you can follow it in real life.

Bradley Hodges
Right? And then that’s one of the reasons why I like to do the 360 guides that I do they look horrible, and they’re super cheesy. And I know my production value is zero, maybe a negative number. But whenever I go to these big sites, I do those for you guys and post them online just so you can see what it’s like to actually be there. Because there’s a world of difference.

Brett Zingler
I’ve never watched one should I should I watch one fun

Bradley Hodges
I’m not gonna tell anybody to actually watch them because like I said, they’re terrible. But if you’ve never been to the place and you don’t and you want to go that’s going to be really close opportunity to go. I guess your first one

George Ward
was what Cleveland right with your with with Laura? Yeah. That one was nice, because I had never been and you just sort of popped up that was before we knew each other. You just want to pop up on Facebook with this 3d walkthrough and I was like, Yeah, that’s cool.

Brett Zingler
Yeah, but then Sir Nigel Diggins came out.

Bradley Hodges
Yeah, I’ve heard that guy. I think he’s pretty cool. He’s he has a Twitter personality. I didn’t know that. No. Oh, I do. Yeah. What’s my other personality?

Brett Zingler
dad joke.

Bradley Hodges
What’s that? Dad? What dad jokes? Yeah. Dad joke. Yeah, no, teller. Yes. This is

Brett Zingler
Nigel digicams or dad joke teller? Nothing in between guys.

Bradley Hodges
Well, I don’t know sir. Dial dial dig them. So but I have. I’ve seen his page and he hasn’t put a lot of content up recently. I’ll send them a message and tell him to try and put some up because it’s stuff it’s quality. It’s good stuff. He’s funny guy.

Brett Zingler
Maybe he found one in his poll in a crew Pat crow

Bradley Hodges
password he’s doing maybe.

Brett Zingler
Okay. So anything else you guys want to talk about with Boston?

George Ward
Well, I mean, we haven’t really touched on yet. Listen. Yeah.

Brett Zingler
I’m just because I’m ready to I’m ready to start building a network. Not even get start. Start talking. And before I forget, do we

George Ward
do we want to talk about what Jason crew Pat? Found? It said said the way Jason solved Boston or do we want to talk about because since since EU, we’ve gotten a lot of information, John Powell in cars, or at least a lot of stuff like that. We know a lot more about Boston now than Jason and EU knew about Boston. So how do we want to talk about Boston, you want to talk about it? And from Jason’s perspective, or from what we know. Now,

Brett Zingler
the only thing real quick before we before we start going on some path. The only thing we know that Jason did was pick up the phone, or go to a construction site and tell people like Hey, be on the look. That’s the facts. Right? Yeah. All of the rest of the stuff that was in the episode and that he talked about, like, we can’t confirm it. And we’re only we’re only talking about the facts right now. And to

George Ward
be super fair to other hunters. Everything that Jason said on that episode was online. Way before that episode, it’s always like there was there were three at least that we know of that we have I honest to god proof that they were there.

Bradley Hodges
Yes, we actually did a a short interview. I don’t know if we ended up posting that interview or if we’re just it alive but we did an interview with with a gentleman who had that asset solve it but in

George Ward
order to. Yeah. Michael and h H. h c

Bradley Hodges
HC Yeah. So it I would say in the spirit of sticking to the facts not disparaging anybody’s thoughts or theories, we should stick to just the facts and not bother going over what any individual thinks may have been the solutions to any to any of this just stick by what we know, from the from one of the puzzle creators to be cracked.

Cole May
Okay, so we know that says Boston in the image.

Bradley Hodges
Yeah, that’s crazy. You know, I’m

Cole May
not gonna I’m not. I don’t profess to be any kind of, you know, amazing treasure hunts or anything like that. But when I first got this book a few years ago and started and saw that image, because it’s on the cover, mostly, like, the thing on the dress the ass in the Boston or whatever. Like, how that could be anything except an S is. You know what I mean? Like to me when he said that Boston was in the image. I was not surprised at all.

George Ward
Well, there’s an obvious s, there’s an obvious T, maybe there’s a kind of obvious a there has to be No, the B is not obvious at all. It’s just not obvious.

Brett Zingler
It’s the arms around the

Cole May
globe. There’s the globe, and then there’s the ring underneath it and the ring around the globe. So there’s and then there’s basically a straight line at the back, right?

Bradley Hodges
If you say, say an obvious A. No, in you did say? No. You said you totally say

George Ward
Oh, I meant and I’ve had I’ve had some rough. Look, I had some rum. Okay,

Bradley Hodges
first recognize like, I don’t know how to spell Boston. It’s it’s Boston, Boston.

Cole May
Just like Bastien taps. AAPs. Okay.

George Ward
So that’s another thing we know, we know. We know that the central flags for iron sights are in the painting which, okay, we know that that that bird is popping a bubble and that’s supposed to be the Boston Pops for some reason. But a bird is not popping the bubble

Brett Zingler
really in the bubble guys?

George Ward
The hell are and then the Boston Globe, the globe. Okay, so I understand the Boston Globe, but the Boston Pops is like,

Bradley Hodges
yeah, I don’t know how, how anybody was supposed to get that. That’s

Cole May
a man. They mentioned the Boston Pops on Jeopardy, like a week and a half ago. And it blew me away. Because that was the second time I’d ever heard those words.

Bradley Hodges
Were very well known. It’s not like they don’t have a following to but to connect that imagery to the name Boston Pops, I would say is

George Ward
no, you know, the coolest, the coolest thing I ever heard was some from some random girl that just sort of popped up and I’m not sure if she’s still around. She wants thought that the I think this was JM thing too, was that the bubbles were portals that were supposed to link to parts of like, two parts of one clue together. And she thought that the bubble next to the beak was supposed to link to the bubble next to the end and make beak N for Beacon Street. Yep, that was great. Yeah, good. That was the most creative thing I’ve heard. I mean, it’s wrong. I mean, it’s yeah, it’s very creative. It’s Boston Pops more on its sponsor. Of course.

Bradley Hodges
So we know that the hairs supposed to look like a baseball diamond. Yeah, we know that. And it doesn’t. It’s a very it’s a very abstract baseball

Brett Zingler
event. Wait, the hair. The hair. The hair looks like the bottom of a broom.

Bradley Hodges
And a baseball diamond.

Brett Zingler
It does not

Bradley Hodges
according to judge Palin card that looks like a baseball diamond.

Brett Zingler
I don’t know. Maybe he’s maybe he. Maybe he thought we were talking about a different image. Or they

George Ward
will ask him once. Yeah, just ask him. We’re gonna we’re gonna grill him on this. I can guarantee you we’re gonna grill him on these

Brett Zingler
can ever be so lucky to get him on this thing? We’re gonna we’re gonna grill him on Boston.

Bradley Hodges
John, have you been to a baseball game? I would make sure the answer is no.

George Ward
I’ll say this man. If the rest of the clues and the rest of these paintings or anything like Boston Pops, I’m done. I can’t I

Brett Zingler
can’t go out. So out of this thing. I’m already done. I mean, and you know, and then you got to throw like a luck thing in the end where you throw a shovel or you you know at the last second you decide to dig on the other side of the planter box. That type

Bradley Hodges
is okay. Okay, so what else do we know as fact, I’m talking about the image. Is there anything else in this image that we know for a fact something

George Ward
but Reddit just said something really good though, Brett said something really good that I want to touch on. A lot of people out there have said things like until a castle is out of the ground, all theories are valid because it’s been 40 years and blah, blah, blah, and you haven’t found one. So what makes your ideas better than new, whatever, it’s a good point to make that the three that have been solved. Nobody went, nobody’s solved the verse and went right to the spot, dug a hole and there was a cask, the guys from Chicago dug for weeks, they dug countless holes, and they couldn’t find it. And then Byron sent him a picture of the exact place to dig and they dug there, and they still do it couldn’t find it. A guy’s from Cleveland. We’re in a planter box. That’s like nine feet long and two foot wide. And they dug all day and found it by accident. And the guys in Boston needed to dig up an entire damn Park and still don’t know

Brett Zingler
where it was. And they still couldn’t. Oh, wait, no, they found it. They just don’t even know where they found it specifically, anywhere, right? That’s the thing. That’s why I’m saying like, we can’t go in fact that it was under home. I mean, okay, it probably was near under home plate or something like that. But in what

George Ward
JP said it was near home plate finally came up

Bradley Hodges
real evidence points at about five feet from home plate. Fine.

George Ward
But let Yeah, five feet or less.

Brett Zingler
It still took some crazy twist of fate and luck and severence. And still it like and like, did you really solve it? I mean, you brought a casket out of the ground. But I mean, like, do we still know. I mean, we there’s still a debate about the end point of Cleveland, although Georgia made a good point. There’s just an interpretation thing, and you know, depending on how you interpret it, but and then Boston is way up in the air.

Bradley Hodges
Not only that, but in today’s world. Let’s say people are Park was not being redone. How in the world? Do you just go and dig up a baseball field and not exactly run into issues? You don’t?

George Ward
Yep, you can’t?

Brett Zingler
Let me tell you, because I’ve done it before.

George Ward
So did I but it was my job.

Brett Zingler
I was helping George on a job site. So yeah, okay, so what else? What else about Boston? What else do we want to get out there? Common denominator wise?

Bradley Hodges
So do we know for a fact in the image that that’s supposed to be the North Star leading you to the north end? I know, that’s a theory. But do we know that?

Cole May
No, no. Could it symbolize north side? Because wasn’t it the north side of often?

Bradley Hodges
Something like it’s the North Star like trying to lead us to the north end? It didn’t even know that the North Star. But out of that not affect

George Ward
it? It makes sense. But it’s there. Gotcha. So as far

Cole May
as the image goes for Boston, sorry, Bradley to cut you off there before I lose my train of thought. As far as the image goes for Boston, comparatively to the others that were solved. This one has very few. What I can tell are real world things in the image, right? As far as I know, the only thing in this image that’s like, you can go somewhere and actually see these things is the sale flags. Right? Those are real world things that are on the ship, right? You could semantically say that the Boston Globe thing is sort of a real world singing the image not at all, that’s more of a concept than it is a thing, right? Like, where, where to Cago has the water tower and fountain or like the fairy pouring the water out of the fountain thing. And that sort of thing. And clearly it has the wall and the columns and the fountain and all that stuff. You know, this one really only has those flags. Yeah. And I guess the whole playing plate, I guess the homepage and here, but he didn’t. The thing is though, is that he didn’t go to that park. Like we’re not looking at the exact shape of the of the home plate that was on the ground in that park as far as we know. Right. It’s a loose representation of it. Right. I argued about because some people said that, that that the line next to the plate is a foot sliding into home plate or whatever. And like, right, yeah, I think even despite Boston Pops. I think that’s that’s a little hokey for for John. John

George Ward
Piper say that’s what I think John Allen Carr said, that’s what it was.

Cole May
Did he say that? Oh, my bad. John’s

George Ward
a little hokey. Let’s just give him

Bradley Hodges
this goes back to the Have you been to a baseball game because if we’re sliding into hopefully that leg would be on the other side. Right?

George Ward
You make me make that point about there being nothing sort of illustrative in the painting unless you’re digging a charlesgate and then there’s a shitload of stuff in here that’s exactly like stuff around Charles which is very misleading

Cole May
there’s more in the verse here that’s that’s like kind of real world stuff than there is in in the US right I mean, you have so we’ve got okay well yeah, well my stalker duties and acts no fun you know, like that’s the literary reference is is turning the the real world into I don’t know if metaphor is the word I should be using here. But like symbol, you know, there’s I don’t know what the green tower of lights was that the lights in the ball diamond themselves.

Bradley Hodges
So we don’t have a confirmation on that as fact, but the theories that are out there are a, the actual lights at the ball field, the the light poles were painted green. And that was verified that they were green back in the 80s. And then you also had the giant green bridge lit up green bridge in the background. And some people theorize that they may be it makes no sense. It doesn’t make sense to me. I think it’s the light of the field, but we’re going with back so we don’t know.

Cole May
And then the rest really just kind of talks about the like how to get there kind of thing like 18 day 12 hour that has to do with what’s his name’s Paul Revere, thank you, his drive or whatever,

George Ward
tempt Canadians, Paul Revere and his drive. And then

Cole May
be free party. This is something that I’ve only discussed a couple of times with a few people but I always thought I feel at home. I feel at home, obviously connects to the home plate, but so does home free, right like your home free. So in in truth be free is the same as like that also references the home plate, I think,

Bradley Hodges
yeah, it should be free and brush music Hush. We have theories about those both, but it’d be nice to know what theirs are for sure.

George Ward
So anyway, okay, so what are what are the what are the similarities that you see in these three, like right off the bat? I know I talk a lot about like Theca diseases and Xena fawns that take in the area of his direction, just trying to tell you take five steps in Boston north in the north end. But I can’t get over the fact that in all three of these verses, they include names that are carved in stone, or at least they include something yet these these specifically include names. But if we branch out to other puzzles, they all seem to a lot of them seem to include something that’s carved in stone. And these three include names that are carved in stone, somewhere in the cities.

Bradley Hodges
I mean, so Chicago and Cleveland, it’s carved in stone, much closer to the actual.

George Ward
And look into these and Xenophon they’re not common names, but in the context of the names that are carved in the Boston library of which there are 1000s they are common names like you would expect them to be there.

Bradley Hodges
Right, you would expect them to be there. But secondly, these is not north of xenophobia on the library facade. So it doesn’t matter in that context. Right. Okay. But we won’t know. And I don’t think we’ll ever know honestly.

Cole May
Okay, so hold on. Let’s look at this first for a second and in the same way that we’ve been looking at the images and again looking only with fact that we know that Boston was talking about Paul Revere, we know that they were talking about the the flags with the letters because he confirmed that and I think he also confirmed that the metal walls was the ball Coliseum did he

Bradley Hodges
Yeah, no, he was iron side iron. Iron Sights. Convert George still, for some reason. I don’t know why it’s not. It’s the baseball field. But you know, whatever. George wants to think I’ll let it

George Ward
okay. So if I tell you, you pass with metal walls, iron sights, iron sights is in the image jjp is telling you is told you like Byron was obsessed with iron sights. I don’t know. It’s not a fence. Fence. It’s not a wall. Like it’s iron sights, iron sights, metal walls, but it’s not difficult. So you’re back to the stairs was the console. The stairs are behind you feel at home you’re staring at home plate. All letters are here to see Ironsides central flags are right in front of you. My theory

Bradley Hodges
so, so jjp so we’re talking about facts. So I keep coming back to this. So jjp did confirm that in the image. You have the flags from iron sights, but did he confirm that all letters are here to see is talking about those flags? Because I don’t remember that?

George Ward
Or does he know like I don’t know. I don’t know. I think he said that all the letters are here to see was referring to Boston? I don’t know we’d need him to clarify that because I think at one point before that he said that all your all the letters are here to see what the sigil flags. So it’s something that it just needs to be clarified. Either way, it doesn’t matter.

Brett Zingler
Can you guys hear me? Yes, yes. Okay, cool. I wanted to clarify something Bradley you might slide into that side of the plate if the catcher is blocking the other the the other side. You

Bradley Hodges
wouldn’t slide you’d like bread played bass. Maybe even do one of those awesome moves or you jump over him.

Brett Zingler
Those are awesome. But that’s why you might come in you might come in on that side of the bag if he’s walking you know If the throw goes wide to the left

Bradley Hodges
you know what I think I’m wrong anyways, I think that hopefully it’s upside down. So I think you would cut doesn’t Is it the point towards the inside

George Ward
now the points towards the backstop

Bradley Hodges
so the point is towards the catcher. Yeah, I have played me one year. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Okay, so I’m right. Yeah. Cuz

George Ward
the the foul lines come off from the outside to first and third. Yeah.

Brett Zingler
Oh, you meant I see what you meant. Okay, I see what you meant. Which Which way is the actual base facing like the point of it right. I’m gonna have to Yeah, right now let me Google let me Google that.

George Ward
No, no, it’s it’s correct it’s it’s right.

Bradley Hodges
Yeah, so yeah, so the the point is towards the catcher so yeah, so that leg is on the wrong side. He’s running away from plate.

George Ward
Welcome, ladies and gentlemen, the seeker baseball with

Bradley Hodges
five feet down first, but George is smiling really big. I think I missed something. What did you say?

George Ward
It’s just it’s just a thought of for just nerds. Who don’t know how they’re talking about talking about baseball of all things.

Bradley Hodges
sports ball is important.

George Ward
One one isn’t even American he’s just like yeah, no, you hit the ball right and you run in a circle

Brett Zingler
don’t have sports in Canada. They don’t even have sports in Canada you know first of all secondly, if you’re if you’re just running from bears that does not count okay.

Bradley Hodges
They have ice skating soccer, don’t they? That’s right. So let’s talk about a common knot factor that arguable for some reasons still think is fact. That is not Columbus’s face a lot of people and some reason still think it is jjp said it’s not a gracious way. It is not Christopher Columbus and Christopher Columbus is now gone. So let’s let that theory. What was the racist way? He said it. He didn’t say racist. I said gracious. gracious, gracious.

George Ward
He was like fuck Christopher Columbus.

Cole May
We’ve had a few drinks. We’ve had a couple of

Bradley Hodges
day. Yes. Funny.

Brett Zingler
You guys need to stop drinking. Soda. Why? Okay. Okay, here’s another thing that they didn’t do is they did not zoom into some obscure portion of the image. So close that it became this granular thing that they looked at and decided with some kind of face.

George Ward
You know, what’s weird about Chicago, Cleveland and Boston. Right backing on that is as as shitty. As we all know, the images are in the reprint. You could solve each of those with the reprint images. Right? And if you ever need to save there.

Bradley Hodges
I wonder Can you can you make out the zip code for Boston? In the reprint? I don’t know. That would be the only clue that I would curious that you can actually see. You mean the 112. Right. Yeah, the 02113 No, you

Cole May
cannot see it. But I’m going to show you as best I can. Yeah.

George Ward
Oh, yeah, you can you can in mine. You can see 11222 I was very Gabby was very gracious. At the New Orleans meetup. I gave her a signed original copy of the secret and she gave me this reprint when she she did she wanted. But I just thought it was an odd trade. You see it?

Brett Zingler
You can see that you can see it.

Bradley Hodges
Yeah, do they have glasses in candidate way over there? Yeah, sorry. No, no, I’m just gonna try.

Brett Zingler
Their glasses are usually full of beer. Their glasses are usually full of Biro Joe’s in their own way here. Yeah. Don’t do that. No, did not put the image into a computer and zoom in so close that they started seeing things,

George Ward
no microscopes, or protractors require no protrack

Brett Zingler
no microscopes.

Bradley Hodges
I will say this. What What one thing that people are doing today that would have worked with the Cleveland solve is the overlay of a map of Ohio. Yeah, that would have made sense. It will it would have worked there. And just because with these three, image manipulation isn’t necessary and wouldn’t necessarily help. We know from JPS most recent interview on the to Josh gates tonight, that there are methods that have not been used that are going to need to be used. And so some sort of image manipulation being a color filter or whatnot, may come into play.

George Ward
Yep. Yeah, you know what I, what I’ve seen online, I’ve seen somebody taking the New Orleans image and breaking it up. Like it was a like, it was like a combination lock and rotating the different sections. It was super creative. I don’t think it really anything came out of it. But it was very creative. Very, very.

Brett Zingler
Okay, here’s another thing that doesn’t play into all of the solves as part of the framework of solving these baseball parks.

George Ward
Oh, my God, everything’s in a baseball park. Now,

Brett Zingler
can we we agree on that. There is not nobody needed baseball parks for Chicago, or

Bradley Hodges
no, just Boston.

Brett Zingler
So that’s a good one too, because, you know, I think a lot of people came in, after the Boston solve and decided I’m going to just stick with baseball themed clues and try to try to fit this in. And the two previous didn’t, didn’t use that. So I’m just I just, there’s arguably

Cole May
no like Chicago had to have the bulls logo, or what a lot of people think, is the bulls logo. So you could argue that maybe there’s a sports connection of some kind to all of them. But

Brett Zingler
I’m gonna liken that to the Boston Pops thing, that it sort of a pop culture II type thing, right. Like, like, if you knew, you know, it’s a part of the culture of that city of that time. Right? Well, obviously, still are but specific to that city. It’s supposed to point you to a city you think

George Ward
one thing that the ball field, at least taught me is and I think we brought this up in the quiz section or the podcast a month ago. We people have always made assumptions about why Byron did this, or what Byron wanted you to get out of this or who Biron made this treasure hunt for? And we always made assumptions, like he’s not going to go into he’s not going to destroy a ball field, you know, to bury a treasure. But he will. Yeah, right. We’ve always thought like these are going to be in places where it’s not going to damage nature of newest, apparently not, it’s gonna be in the middle of Battlefield. You know, it that that Battlefield broke a lot of assumptions that I had about number one, who Byron was why he did this and where he would do it.

Bradley Hodges
I couldn’t agree more. Going along with the with what you’re talking about, Brett? I mean, a lot of people do have theories about a ball filled with Roanoke Island, and I cannot say they are completely wrong. There’s a Rino. It’s,

Brett Zingler
it sounds good. I’m not saying they’re wrong. I’m not I’m all I’m saying. Is that a ballpark? Based on based on what were the facts and the data that we have in front of us that we’ve just put together, isn’t it? You can’t say that it is a common theme. Are there other tasks? Buried in ballparks? I mean, I hope not. But I mean, there might be I don’t know, you know what I mean? So I’m just trying to put that together. Okay. Let’s talk about, let’s talk about commonalities. Okay.

Bradley Hodges
Here’s commonality in that same in that same breath. So, Cleveland, and Chicago, both were in a city park. Right. So we have that.

Now, we also have JJ P, as saying on Josh gates tonight, that these were being solved in the order in which they were not necessary. So he said in that interview, that there they were being solved in the order in which they were painted. But then he kind of rewarded that in more recent interview is a Christmas special. And he said that, not necessarily in the order that we painted them, but in the order that we were putting them together.

George Ward
Or the order they were intended. Yeah, the order, there’s

Bradley Hodges
10 Yeah, so whatever that means, um, but if that’s the case, and we have fairies, what’s the line fairy stretchers coming to or something that to that effect? So we have the first two that were found in city parks. And then the third one found in a baseball field. If they’re in pairs, and the pairs are pair pair pair pair pair, possibly run up to the baseball park and that’s, that’s part of the pair.

Brett Zingler
Okay, so then like there has to be a different type of location for the next two and the next two after that, like we get to

George Ward
New York and it’s buried in Walmart.

Brett Zingler
That’s what I’m saying. Like, how many different places could he have one like to or in a restaurant?

Bradley Hodges
I mean, there could be like, you know, it could be, you know, that could be common places. It’s possible just throwing it out there. I don’t.

Brett Zingler
But we’ll go with framework here. As much

George Ward
as I don’t like to say it him bearing in a ball field takes away the idea that you wouldn’t bury at the National Park. You know, as much as I hate to say like, I don’t think Byron would bury something that the fort and St. Augustine he might nose buried in a ball field he might buried at Fort, you might not care.

Brett Zingler
Okay, more commonalities. You ready? Yes. Buildings. Pasta did have any? Well, that we know of head, we know. And that’s where I’m going. That’s where I’m going with this. So we know building in Chicago building in Cleveland. And that’s why I was asking about that before. There may be a building in Boston that’s in there. And that we still need to find. And if we find that, that would be kind of cool, right? Because then that might be part of the framework that you need to for as a city identifier, I liked the fact that, that there was a building and each of the first two, I think that that’s important, and what’s important to the find.

Bradley Hodges
So let’s add that to our list of questions that we may possibly find out from John. Is that is that a building that he’s aware of? And if so, what building? There’s been a good few proposed matches? Speaking of John’s, I’m gonna go use the John, I’ll be right back.

Unknown Speaker
Should we keep going? Sure. Why

George Ward
not? What do you want to talk about?

Cole May
Let’s recap real quick. I got buildings in Cleveland in Chicago, not so much in Boston that we can confirm. names carved in stone we have in Cleveland and Chicago. Again, I don’t know about Boston, possible. latitude longitude. Yes. Latin lon is in at least two of them. Right.

Brett Zingler
Right. We don’t have confirmation in Boston. We don’t have but we have it in Chicago and Cleveland. So now we’re starting with these are this is a framework right now. Now we’re not playing tic tac toe. And I mean, oops.

George Ward
I mean, look, we know this is Boston, Boston’s latitude and longitude is what 4271? There’s a 42 in the image. You know, it’s, it’s pretty, it’s pretty Yeah, yeah,

Bradley Hodges
I like it. For those who aren’t aware or listening to the podcast, because I know there’s a lot of new members. And we’ll talk about that a little bit. But when, when the first two were found Cleveland in Chicago, Byron price was around, to be able to have that conversation with. And he obviously was the master of the entire puzzle. But he also did the verses. And he did not get much, if any help that we know from anybody on the verses. So as far as things that are in the verse, we’re going to have a lot of trouble knowing whether or not in fact, it’s, you know, luckily, we still have John jjp around to help us confirm what’s in these images. Well, and we also have the finders. Yeah. But they can’t verify the facts. They can just say what, how they got to where they got, yeah,

Cole May
that’s what I was talking about earlier, like a month ago, when I said that, you know, there’s a fine line between how they solved it and how you actually solve it, right? Like, you can, like, if you think about it in terms of video games, for instance, Simon’s Quest on my hoodie, right, there’s many different ways you can finish that game, Chrono Trigger, one of the greatest video games ever created, it has 14 different endings on it. So the way that the that the game creators intended you to do it, is going to be different than the way that you actually end up doing it at least

Bradley Hodges
once. I think a better analogy, as far as video games go is like Mass Effect, right? There’s a million different ways you can play the game. But no matter what, you’re gonna get the same ending.

George Ward
What? Well, the point I want to make is, every single team that solve these has had something that’s been confirmed to be wrong. Right? Chicago guys thought mnb was man and beast, they thought that was the Bowman statue. The Cleveland guys counted everything wrong. You know, they were they ended up in the wrong place at the wrong place. For some reason, Boston, probably like 50% of what Jason said was wrong. But they all ended up with a cask. So just because they ended up with the cast doesn’t necessarily mean every step that they took was correct. So what we’re trying to do is find the correct steps.

Brett Zingler
And why is that? It is because there was a stroke of luck involved in all in all of them and in Boston, most prominently. I mean, you know,

Cole May
so it’s a fact that a stroke of luck will help you find these casks.

Brett Zingler
It’s an act that you’re going to need some luck, and I don’t remember that. I think we asked that as a trivia question whether Byron thought luck was going to be involved. And I think he said no, I don’t remember.

Bradley Hodges
doesn’t even say that. If you’re lucky, and if you’re kind and if etcetera, etcetera.

Brett Zingler
Possibly. It was in one of the I think the first time that I did a did is did he say it or did you not say it that that was in there, but the the point is, is that you’re also going to need some luck. And you know, I think it is perseverance luck. I don’t know. I don’t know. Jason showed some damn perseverance. I will I will say that.

Cole May
I think he showed more luck than perseverance like he he made the phone calls, sir. But he like

George Ward
I really think what Jason did was he found a place in Boston where he could look at some water with his back to some stairs, and was like, holy shit. There’s home plate, let’s dig there. That’s what I think he did. And then he walked as he walked his verse backwards, he was like, well, maybe this is this, and maybe this is this, whatever, we’ll get me back to the spot.

Bradley Hodges
And there’s there’s no discounting his perseverance. Several people, not several. But multiple people came to that conclusion, and multiple people spoke to that construction company. From what I understand, Jason is the only person that went above the heads of the on site people and spoke to the management of the construction company and made a connection there, which I think would ultimately solidified him being the contact when something was located. Yep. Correct. I’m not saying, listeners, I’m not saying to harass the top level employees and national parks or anywhere else, it’s not going to get you anywhere. Yes, it got Jason somewhere. But that’s, that was a pure stroke of luck. Back to the whole luck thing.

George Ward
What Bradley is trying to tell you is when you want to dig a hole, what you need to do is call Donald Trump got permission to bug him and

Cole May
you only have about 35 more days to do that. Yes.

Brett Zingler
Fake News call. So let’s, let’s, let’s put a wrap on this. And then I want to talk about the exciting news that I mentioned earlier, okay. For our community, for our hunt, for us kind of fun. So, now we have commonalities, common denominators, and sort of a framework, I wouldn’t say it’s like instructions, but at least some things to start thinking about. So if you’re just approaching this puzzle, or even if you’re somebody like me, I learned a lot, right? Because I didn’t know the nuances of the solves. Now you’ve got to now you’ve got to somewhat have a framework to approach these puzzles with like, instead of looking at super zoomed in images for faces and things like that, now, let’s look for buildings. Let’s look for latitude and longitude. Let’s look for city and state indicators. You know, let’s look for a thing in the verse that ties to the image. Right? One thing in the verse like we were talking about before, and and and start there,

Bradley Hodges
these are things that will tell you whether or not you have a viable solve. These are the things that demolish the argument that you don’t have a cast. So all theories are valuable. If it doesn’t match up with we know are true, then, no, you’re losing value. It’s not as valuable. And one thing we didn’t touch on about Boston is that Boston. And again, we don’t know this for a fact because Biden’s not around to tell us but we’re pretty sure Italian finway the anagram Boston starts us with the word puzzles. And you have an anagram for Italian finway in there. So, anagrams are fair game as far as I’m concerned. I can’t tell you it’s a fact. We don’t have Biron to tell us that. But

Brett Zingler
let’s see why he wouldn’t do that. too coincidental.

Cole May
It’s in a book, right? If this was a if this was a video, like not a conventional video game video game, but if this was on, like a movie type thing, you there, you would have to do that different ways. Right? But because it’s in a book, all you get is words and pictures. Right? So you have to use that to your advantage as a Puzzle Maker. Right?

Brett Zingler
That’s right. That’s right. So anyway, I and look, I don’t like I don’t want for people to think that we’re coming off as pontificating, like we know anything. None of us has found anything. You know, we’re just students of the game, you know, at this point, and and we’re just people that want to solve these and are trying to but are trying to put some logic to it and trying to try to figure out like where, like, where should I start?

Bradley Hodges
So Brett, some really exciting news recently took place in the treasure hunting community. Want to fill us in?

Brett Zingler
Some guy who sounds super awesome. His name is David Steele. And David, if you’re listening, we’d love to talk to you. We don’t know how to get in touch with you, but he created a hunt. Called the great us. Treasure Hunt. Have you guys heard of this thing? Yes. Yeah. Okay. So it’s people are all across the country are searching for. They’re trying to solve clues that will lead to four hidden items, find the finding of which will glean $10,000 per, per item, which is actually a pretty nice little haul, I would say. Absolutely. David is inspired by the secret. It says in the article that that David has been in love with treasure hunts ever since 1982, when a book titled The secret was published, what’s really exciting about David is that he was inspired when he first got a copy of the secret in 1982. And so what he did is he hid at some point, he was in Vegas looking for what he thought was a cask hidden in Vegas, and he hid it a letter Z. I don’t know why he did this, and I’d love to ask him under a park bench, and it was never found. And then so it kind of inspired him to create this treasure hunt that he’s created. And added that, that z into the treasure hunt. And one of our somebody from our community found it and 110 $1,000 and I think it’s somebody that you guys know pretty well and it’s it’s somebody pretty pretty well loved by the community. So I’m pretty pretty pumped. And you guys can can tell a little bit more about about Beth, who found that but it What was great was they linked George’s 12 treasures.com site in the article and it drove traffic to it brought our server down and which is hilarious so I thought that was pretty cool that they that they made that connection found our site and found George’s site and and basically brought brought the secret and the site and Beth into a totally separate treasure hunt. It’s kind of it’s it’s a really cool story and kind of kind of, you know, was interesting and kind of funny.

Bradley Hodges
Yeah, absolutely. Beth. For those of you that don’t know Beth Beth is amazing. She’s super sweet, super kind, super generous, super talented. She is a treasure hunter. She’s an artist. She has put together her own puzzles. And one place that you can go to to find information about other non the secret puzzles is mysterious writings. that’s run by somebody named Ginny. And she has She’s great. She hosted best hunts. Beth’s most recent Hunt was called The Secret red herring. And it was 12 paintings and 12 verses. But only 10 of those actually lead to a treasure. And once you found the treasure you got am a gem as well as a painting. The painting that was published, she actually mailed you the image. And what you will found for the proxy to locate was a painted stone, which was also my bath. And let me tell you guys, they were beautifully done. I was lucky enough to work with the team. My wife and I worked with a gentleman named Chris, which a lot of you are probably familiar with. And then Miss Nadine and Kim, who are an amazing couple and Ohio and they are on the community as well so you probably know them. Super super intelligent individuals. We were very lucky to work with him. But we found three we sold five of the 10 but got to three of the 10 before other people did. So they were they were exceptional the gifts are exceptional. And this all came out of best pockets so her finding this $10,000 prize I could not have not have gone to a better person so deserving I’m so glad she got that

George Ward
we’re gonna get some more cool birthday but that’s that’s going to fund something she’s going to do a new hunt. I

Bradley Hodges
bet I have no doubt. Yeah, absolutely.

Brett Zingler
Now I was telling you guys earlier that I bought her book, or bought bought the puzzle at one point Wait or subscribe to it or something like that it was solved before I even received it. So I, I’m looking forward to the next one because I want to I want to give it a shot. And then Rumor has it that Cole has his own treasure hunt. Upcoming, is this correct?

Cole May
That is correct. Yes, I’ll be making it public here in a couple of days, I had a little bit of a setback it was actually supposed to come out last week. And I do I guess I’m sort of inspired by by the secret, of course, but I’ve always like, I’ve always kind of liked this sort of thing. So it was sort of just natural. It’s 2020. And I’m bored out of my skull. So it was something that I needed to do. And of course, the secret community is a great place to release that. So it’ll be with with George’s blessing, of course, I’ll be posting that there in the next couple of days.

Brett Zingler
Is there a cipher involved?

Cole May
There might be it’s a coded image. The and that’s all I’m going to tell you. There’s a real prize. Yes. Yeah. It does require a little bit of digging, so your hands will get dirty.

Bradley Hodges
You can take a drink and you don’t need a shovel. All right, we’re getting some info here.

Brett Zingler
Is it coal in your stocking? That’s all I need to know. Yeah,

Cole May
I can’t do any of that. It might even require a plane ticket.

George Ward
Is it? Because if it’s in Tahiti, I’m totally going.

Brett Zingler
So anyway, I thought that was pretty cool about that. About this, this other treasure hunt and then about colts hunt. And you know, I’m hoping some people got some information out of this podcast it would be it’d be cool if people could help somebody.

George Ward
You know what’s odd. Everybody’s making treasure hunts. What we haven’t made one. Why haven’t we made a treasure hunt?

Brett Zingler
I’m only good at. Well, I’m not even good at solving them. I

George Ward
think we should make one I got a big bag of gems. Let’s make a treasure hunt.

Bradley Hodges
Let’s do it. I’ve got some gems I can throw in

George Ward
Rachel has this thing where she like buys gems and I’ve got cut gems like I’ve got a bag like a sackful,

Bradley Hodges
can you say the reason why you have the gyms

George Ward
she’s buys them. We were gonna give them away for a long time. We’re just gonna give them away.

Brett Zingler
So we have jam.

George Ward
We got we got a shitload of gems. We like to ship

Brett Zingler
we have a prize. Okay, and we have a name and we’re going to you know we’re going to call it is the greater us greater treasure. The other one was pretty good, but obviously solvable. So

George Ward
the threat Could you could you imagine the chaos we could cause if we just released a Vegas note if we just was like, here’s one sheet of paper I love if you can figure this out you can have a full a gem

Brett Zingler
Vegas notes our I don’t even know if you guys know what we’re talking about. But like nobody knows. It’s a it’s a crazy notes. So like, imagine finding a cocktail napkin as you’re at while you’re gambling. In Vegas on like a slot machine and you have you happen up to the slot machine. You put you go to put your beer down and you see this cocktail napkin. And it’s got all this crazy stuff written on it. Like that’s my dream and it and like you, you look at it, you pour over it for months you solve it, it leads you to some mystery, it leads to some treasure hunt. And suddenly you like you find $100,000 bunch of like gold doubloons or is that like that is my fantasy? Like, if there were a cipher in it? I mean, I would be I would be so thrilled I we call this crazy Vegas notes is what we call those

Bradley Hodges
notes. I always imagined it to be like there’s a homeless guy, right? And you go up and you like drop some change in the can and then he like hand you a piece of paper and then it goes from there as well.

Brett Zingler
That would be a really good guy. I have I have harbored for my many years on this planet. It a fantasy that I will somehow step into something and in the secret is a little bit like that. The way that me and George met eventually not right away but eventually was this thing called Austin cipher on Reddit. And if you ever if you’re a Reddit fan or if you ever go in there search in there for Austin cipher and follow the the incredible story that that that happened we somebody somebody posted in so the the sub that I like in there is called unresolved mysteries and somebody put up a picture of a cipher that they found in Austin, Texas, that it was like taped to a pole or something like that. And it was like under a bridge, I think under a bridge or something. And they said, Hey, guys, this is super weird, I found I found this thing. And I got, and I was new to read it. And I was on unresolved mysteries all the time. But then I got completely overwhelmed and into what was going on. And it was taking you every week, or, you know, three or four days. Another cipher was being posted in Austin. And, but it was puzzles and ciphers and like hieroglyphics and, you know, images that you had to decipher the conspiracy theory out of, and stuff like that. And it totally, like, I wasn’t doing it in person. I was doing it online, but like it, it ended up in this article, making our own sub, bringing the cipher over into that Sub and like, a ton of people like trying to solve things all at the same time and figure out what this thing was up to. And that’s eventually where I met the guy who introduced me to, to George, the guy that who will remain nameless, but if you ever get a chance go it’s in you like stuff like this rabbit holes and

Unknown Speaker
fascinating.

Bradley Hodges
guys decided we should do something. Definitely.

Brett Zingler
Well, we and we did for a little bit.

George Ward
Yeah, we’ve done a couple of little things. And not in a while, though. It was a journey. We did journey

Brett Zingler
we did journey. Yep, I remember that.

George Ward
Yeah, sure. I’d like when I screwed that up.

Bradley Hodges
When I made it way more complicated than I need to be. On journey was pretty well, you guys, at one point. So this is before I knew Brett or George. And it was the beginnings of the Facebook group. And there was a part where it’s as simple as you had to click on a hidden link at the bottom of the toilet treasurer’s website or something. And instead of just clicking the link, I pulled up twitter.com pulled up the source code, and went through it line by line to find the link that way. Wow. That’s

George Ward
I remember one that took people forever. It was like you would go to a page on a website and I forget which website it was. But the text of the page would be like look up, and the address bar the address was like, change this to next and hit enter. And it would take you to the next page and it took people days everybody was like what does it look up me right?

Brett Zingler
I have a C grid book that I read. It’s part of something that I need. If I want to solve a puzzle, then it’s really fun. I don’t like to do it unless I get it. Done.

Bradley Hodges
Wow, that’s good shit. Job, Brett. Hey, maybe there’s been a star.

Brett Zingler
Are you ready for the second verse of

George Ward
Yes, yes. I’m really ready. Now.

Brett Zingler
Somebody hid a box in a place that’s not super known. You could dig it up. If you but you might find a bone. If there’s something in the place where you think it is then Hurrah. You should go take a whiz. It’s the secret thing that I like. That’s why I do it. It’s not like riding a bike.

Cole May
I just did take a bit of job.

George Ward
I think we found it through music.

Brett Zingler
Are you guys ready for verse number three? Yes, yes. This is where it gets really really hot. This is where it rocks. There’s a man named by Wren that does things means cool. He hides things in places. He might hide it in a pool. If you go there and you try to find it, then yes, you’ll get it. Just go do that the best ever All right, that’s awesome. Man.

Cole May
Up on my Spotify wraps the year

Brett Zingler
all right. So that rivals George’s philosophy, astronomy, philosophy, pornography, I’m a hip hop. My lyrics are bottomless Sutton Manju is bottomless Wow. That’s aggressive.

Hosts & Guests

George Ward
Bradley Hodges
Brett Zingler
Cole MAy

 

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