I really like this proposal. Reading one of the articles from the time period and hearing BP's words regarding some of the prose got me thinking that there has to be connections. Some people have dismissed the prose as somehow being disconnected fluff. I don't see how that could be the case. Now, here's one issue. I don't have the full book. I can easily remedy that, but most people will not read the entire book. I think the first task is to encourage people to read these passages in order to contribute, and possibly draw out some content that is relevant. I think this will be a fantastic thread. Great idea!

I believe the thread you are looking for was called Litany of the Jewels. back maybe about 2007 Check with Erexere

Goldengate wrote:: Thank you Obi-Wan. Those are the Litany of Jewels I'm looking for. Goldengate, I was under the impression you meant the book part, not the vanishing, the litany of the jewels, etc. I figure there's some value in the prose part which I believe is called The Field Guide of the Fair People. Can you clarify? In the meantime, I'm thinking of buying the Kindle Edition of the full book.

Good Thread GG. Listening to the episode now

Brian Zinn wrote in the Cleveland thread that he asked Priess about the "rest" of the book as Priess thumbed through it Priess said there was no additional info/clues in the rest of the book besides the verse and images But I agree with your assessment. The whole book does seem TOO coordinated and the additional illustrations and even some of the descriptions

...just to repeat what I posted at SA... ...the book contains a story about the original fair-folk which was presumably written by BP, then the images/verses, and then a series of entries on modern fair-folk by National Lampoon types. The idea that parts of the book are irrelevant starts with a comment from Egbert: "B.Preiss was a very good poker player, and was not giving out any hints about any of the other locations. However, he did confirm my theory that the countries of origin of the faeries do connect with the sites. He also said that the pages following the verses (which make up the bulk of the book) have NO connection with the puzzles, and contain no additional clues." The first part can be found here , the last part isn't available online. The first part def contains clues (eg a reference to the Fountain of Youth, and all the countries of origin stuff), none have been demonstrated in the last part so far AFAIK (though the 982 train has been noted). But it wouldn't do any harm to keep an eye open.

I think Pries would confirm cities where casques were buried but not much else So I think he confirmed St Louis to Johann In the back of the book is "Spirit of St Louis" where Priess useless the word dauntless to describe Lindberg I have only come across the word Dauntless twice in my life. both in this book maybe just a coincidence

Doghousereiley wrote:: Brian Zinn wrote in the Cleveland thread that he asked Priess about the "rest" of the book as Priess thumbed through it Priess said there was no additional info/clues in the rest of the book besides the verse and images But I agree with your assessment. The whole book does seem TOO coordinated and the additional illustrations and even some of the descriptions Let go over the whole book with Chicago and Cleveland in mind. If we find solid eggs for these then it likely the rest will as well.

...either way, if we're gathering non-image/verse clues about the puzzles in this thread, here's something from the English section of the introduction FWIW. In England, the erstwhile high-honored court of the Fairy Queen was now much diminished. Her Majesty, Mab Herself, and many of Her subjects, Pixies, Hobgoblins, and Boggarts alike, had shrunk to tiny size. Robin had been exiled to Sherwood. Right gladly did all that company hear the news of a haven in the West, and right swiftly they embarked therefor...Robin and the Pixies of Britain gave lessons in archery to the Catawba braves, who passed their skill in bowmanship along to the neighboring Cherokee and Teton Sioux. Leshy and Vily, from the forests of Muscovy, instructed the Mohicans in woodcraft, teaching them to move silently and invisibly through the trees - a skill which (learned authorities say) the Mohicans possessed to the Last. There's a statue of Queen Elizabeth in the Elizabethan Garden, and the inscription about the "dark forest" was written by Fletcher (arrowmaker). Roanoke has a "Sherwood Dr" and "Maid Marian Ct". There seems to be various "Midgett" connections, eg Neva Midgett House , and Jule's Park which was established by "Guy Midgett", but I don't have dates for any of the MIdgett stuff and it may all be too recent. Nowhere near the Elizabethan Gardens either. (Some of the book's capitalisations are baffling. Why "Last"? Last of the Mohicans? Random trivia: another of Fenimore's novels, The Spy , features a horse called Roanoke.)

Wow. That is a cool observation I like the Energenii. It says they came from Djinns that came from OPEC nations. I thought it appropriate that the OIL connection is to Houston, a major city for Oil/Energy business and the Capitalizations isle of B? "of the v". "man of oz" I also wonder about numbers. in one it is 92 stairs the grand 200 walk 100 paces. yet you pass a proud "fifth" or Hard word of 3 vols.? these are the only times Pries uses numbers instead of spelling out the word

Looks like You're well steeped in the madness. Carry on.

Page 83 in the image there is a can of 222 spackling compound. I don’t understand if there is any connection at all to the verse, it’s just something that always stood out to me when reading through the book. Might be something similar to the 82 train on page 199.

Good call on the can of 222. My guess is that Preiss really wanted to liven things up a bit. Out of the twelve locations he chose a handful of selections, or maybe just one for each casque location/puzzle and with those he "exaggerated" them in some of the photographs or with a small edit to the Fair Folk in the field guide after once his hired writers completed their work. Without a doubt, it would be expected that people would latch on strongly to particular standouts in the verse, nine eight two, two twenty-two, etc.

erexere wrote:: Good call on the can of 222. My guess is that Preiss really wanted to liven things up a bit. Out of the twelve locations he chose a handful of selections, or maybe just one for each casque location/puzzle and with those he "exaggerated" them in some of the photographs or with a small edit to the Fair Folk in the field guide after once his hired writers completed their work. Without a doubt, it would be expected that people would latch on strongly to particular standouts in the verse, nine eight two, two twenty-two, etc. Yes. Going through them now. There are clues, just wondering on the sequence though. It almost seems that the locations have to be determined first, then we look at The Field Guide for reinforcement or additional clues.

I believe that there are eggs in the book and if Priess said that there are NO connections (being a poker player) then to me I would not take his word for that direction. I would look at it as if he said, I am not telling you that there is, but you should look on your own.... He is not going to tell you what you want to hear in a book that has a buried treasure that he spent time and money to create. That would be way to easy. I also believe that there are no coincidence in the puzzle. This puzzle was well crafted to have random things inserted into the puzzle. I have found this in the SF puzzle on two pages. The first page is under Corporate Giants and in the text it refers to Karl Marx. In GGP there is a meadow named Marx meadow, (Pg 194 of the book) the exact spelling, coincidence?? I don't think so. On Pg 89 there is a picture of Monte Irvin in a Giants uniform, Which would imply baseball to the SF puzzle. These are hints to locations within the specific puzzles, they are not connect to the verse, but they point you in a direction of interest. Excellent Thread GG!!!!!

I would totally jump into a rabbits hole called "Mark's Meadow" if I had reason to believe that worked best for Twain's object of interest.

I also think that maybe on the harder puzzles the left hints in the book and not all puzzles have theses hints??

The book proper contains various sections. If you already own the book you are familiar. If you do not own the full book, then either purchase it or download it in the Kindle edition. I purchased the Kindle Edition last night. Some of the illustrations in the Verses section have not been included, but the rest of the book appears to be intact. In the Section titled A Field Guide to the Fair People of the New World, there are nine (9) divisions or classes of Fair Folk. Under each division are a handful of characters (75 in all I believe) that are loosely based on the concept of fairies, trolls and such. They are completely fabricated apart from the classical depictions of ethereal creatures like gnomes and fays. I believe most of the writing was done by the National Lampoon writers that Preiss hired for this project, so there is a heavy dose of snarky humor built into the descriptions. I decided to focus on one creature in particular, The Job Goblin (Opus pocus) listed under the Economic classification. I believe this appears on page 198 in the printed book. This is partly because of Bingo's observation regarding the train. The image included with the Job Goblin screams Houston to me. The guys in the image are almost certainly oil field workers. The helmets are very distinctive and they still look like that today. In the early 80s the oil and gas business was going through an enormous boom time primarily due to the OPEC oil crisis of the 70s but also from government subsidies. The passage talks about: "The Job Goblin is despised and feared by management, who feel that they are the only ones entitled to a good day's pay for spending the afternoon digesting an exotic, tax-deductible lunch . Kelly, Sean; Mann, Ted. The Secret (Kindle Locations 2237-2238). ibooks. Kindle Edition." Most likely a reference to the overabundance of workers on the payroll eating bbq on the government's dime. In the image we can see a bunch of guys doing various activities at a job site, where they are supposed to be working. Playing cards, sleeping, drinking, eating lunch, reading the paper, etc. The very definition of wasteful spending and idleness as indicated in the passage. Also in the passage there is mention of assembling spacecraft circuit boards and cardiac monitors. Both industries in Houston. The passage also talks of climate issues. In 1980 Texas was in the midst of yet another devastating heat wave and drought. Crops failed, it was hot, everyone got tired from the heat. To the outsider, this could have appeared to be extreme laziness. There are a few other pointers here, while stereotypical, nonetheless, "antique firearms for the walls of the den" and "cow patty" are definitely Texas references. If we look at the image again, there are several other things that jump out at me. The obvious one is the 82 train. Very similar in design to the 982 train that used to sit in Hermann Park. The girder near the train is a big H. There are planes overhead, Houston has a major airport. The train is on a bridge that is under construction. Anyone that has been to Houston knows how Houston loves construction and bridges. Constant state of highway and overpass construction.The comic book one guy is reading is Hawkman, I haven't looked into that angle, but the cover illustration on the comic sure looks like a plane or something over the Houston skyline. There are more things that I haven't gotten to yet that are hidden in the image, especially in the billowing clouds. Now the question is whether there is any useful information toward solving the puzzle. That remains to be seen. erexere made a good point. I wonder if there are twelve primary character passages that associate with the casque locations, and the rest are either fluff or contain some supporting evidence. I've already seen a few that relate to the various cities we are hunting in, but maybe that is super easy in retrospect, since we know that the was definitely a casque in Chicago and one in Cleveland.

Have read through the entire book several times. The only clues that seemed directly related to the hunt was the obvious mention of the Fountain of Youth. “Letter from country of wonderstones hearth” and possibly “gnomes admire” are two examples of where you would need the book to interpret them. I believe there is also mention of the Chicago World’s Fair in the book which had some relationship to the Chicago location though I don’t recall exactly.

This is an interesting idea. I remember reading the book cover-to-cover when I got it last year, but I took a closer look this morning after hearing Wilhouse's interview on the podcast. The illustrations are fun, but since those could be drawn anywhere my main focus was on the photographs. Although I'm not sure that these leads would actually be meant to be taken as clues, it's at least *POSSIBLE* that some of these photos were taken on the same trips when the casques were being buried. -Between the Title Page and the Contents, BP thanks a number of locations which were used in the photos. -On P. 48, "The Verses", there's a color photo of all the Descendants gathered on a staircase. I don't suppose that backdrop looks familiar to any sites? -P.57 & 172, the Dixie Pixie is sitting on top of a road sign that reads "Dixie Highway." I know there's a Dixie Highway in FL, and I'm pretty sure other states have them as well. -P.67, the Pill Grim is perched between statues on some kind of a monument. -P.139, the Left Wing Symp and the Right Wing Trog are shown in front of the US Capitol building in DC. -P.148, the Spirit of '76 fairy looks like she's riding a ferry boat, with the two WTC towers in the background. -P. 178, one of the Tinker Belles is shown in the belfry of the Riverside Church, NYC, as well as in what looks like a Chinatown phone booth. -P. 211-213, one of the Small Businessmen is standing on the steps of NY State Supreme Court Building in NYC.

JamesV wrote:: Although I'm not sure that these leads would actually be meant to be taken as clues, it's at least *POSSIBLE* that some of these photos were taken on the same trips when the casques were being buried. I was having the same thought. Does the photo on page 93 (The Boogie Man) look like it was taken from the deck of a house in a suburb of San Francisco? I haven't tried to find a match, but the houses "made of ticky tacky" look a lot like familiar scenes of the area. My thinking is that BP visited people he knew in each city he buried his prizes, and some of his tourist shots became part of the narrative. These aren't going to help us solve the riddles, but only reaffirm the cities. (btw, I freely admit that i have NEVER read most of the book)

I had mentioned this before on one of NYC threads, but this might be the place to bring it up again. I am certainly not implying that this is the meaning of the verse or trying to beat a dead horse, just another thing that stuck in my head while re-reading the book a while ago. Page 9, the first sentence of The Passage To The New World. “The Northern seas are cold and cruel grey;” Possible nod to the “grey giant”? Same Old English spelling of the word grey.

Funny this thread started... couple of days ago, feeling at a dead end I felt there maybe clues eleswhere and staryed looking at the Russian Devil Dogs that settled in SC. I think this is a good avenue for everyone to look at. Regards, Mac

So we have 82 in the book and 222. Might there be a number connection? Any other weird numbers in the book? 21? 15? 1913?

drunknerds wrote:: So we have 82 in the book and 222. Might there be a number connection? Any other weird numbers in the book? 21? 15? 1913? Yes, you'll especially love The Postmonster General and the Glitches. Both seem to have cryptograms. Also, the Unreal Estate Broker photo includes two phone numbers. Might have significance. There may be more numbers, I just haven't had time to go through it all yet.

I'm not sure these are cryptograms, technically, but perhaps an Easter Egg awaits. The Postmonster General Code: Select all ...completely digital addressing. For example: Mr. 639 7644 532 2nd Avenue 67opolis, 51st State 1st Country, 3rd World 56555555559867483948584777594737747474733 (etc.) Glitches Code: Select all What we must all do, right now, is @#$%_&*"?:_)&*%$#. ( note: my keyboard didn't have the characters for "cents" and "1/4" so i just put the "_" as placeholders.) (also note: the symbols start out as simply the shifted chars on the numbers row 2345^78...)

The character ratio in those messages does not look like any sort of cipher. Even if it was there wouldn't be enough if them to break it.

While Preiss was eccentrically intelligent, if he thought they'd be solved within a year it seems unlikely that people with even above average intelligence would have been able to solve a cipher or cryptogram on this level. Are we reading too much into it?

Goldengate wrote:: I'm with Karleen on this one. IMO these puzzles are meant to be very complex, but still accessible for anyone with some intelligence, persistance and reasonable 1982 research resources. There are other clues in the passages. For example the glitch one reads right to left I believe. I haven't taken a crack at it yet but I doubt it's that complicated, and I doubt it's gibberish. It might say, "Drink more Ovaltine".

gManTexas wrote:: There are other clues in the passages. For example the glitch one reads right to left I believe. I haven't taken a crack at it yet but I doubt it's that complicated, and I doubt it's gibberish. It might say, "Drink more Ovaltine". Catherwood is right it's literally shift+23456787654 with a couple ?,.'s thrown in.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: "Aces high"...? It sure seems like a hint is to be found here, IMO... 1. Left Illustration - Sitting crossed (across? X?) on top of a three (or between four) black, low straight. Five total, four the same, one different. 2. Right Illustration - Sitting crossed (across? X?) between two (snake eyes) on top of four and threes (four trees?) Something's definitely there, but what? MM

Minotaur_moreno wrote:: It sure seems like a hint is to be found here, IMO... 1. Left Illustration - Sitting crossed (across? X?) on top of a three (or between four) black, low straight. Five total, four the same, one different. 2. Right Illustration - Sitting crossed (across? X?) between two (snake eyes) on top of four and threes (four trees?) Something's definitely there, but what? MM Good eye, sounds like Verse 1 "In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight"

For me it ties in the Twain perfectly.... Celebrated frog jumping contest ( Twain ) attention is also mention, on the counts of betting...again Twain, that's how contest started.

I took some time to read all 75 of the Fair People entries in the section titled "A Field Guide to the Fair People of the New World". I read them a few times. If we were starting from square 1, this section would be extremely valuable for beginning to narrow down some clues to the various locations of the caques. There are a ton of references to various historical events and locations, even though it's done through the paintbrush of satire. These sections are not neatly compartmentalized in the sense that one corresponds to a certain Verse, Image or location. Rather, there are repetitive themes and words that appear throughout. I believe that this section may have served as a fall back if people did not find the longitude and latitude clues. By reading this section, we can better understand the themes that were being emphasized. There are also words that keep appearing and I would love to do a word cloud on the section. If anyone knows of a good utility to create one, please let me know. While the section is rooted in popular culture from the early 1980s, much of it still rings true today. Now, for the difficult part, deciphering and using the info. I believe the best way to approach it, if you are so inclined, is to absorb the info and see what pops out as connections or reinforcement. It is actually quite easy, since we generally know the locations of the casques, even though we may not know the specific locations. Clues like "jumping contests of celebrated frogs" or "extinct robber barons" or "puritans" or "a square-mile sized" can give us indirect clues to help direct the hunt in ways possibly not considered when only looking at Verse - Image pair. I get that they needed to fill a book. But I also believe that the content is relevant. While it may not be "hard data", it has value. It's even possible that Preiss was trying to consider that some people who are more literary, might like to make connections via the prose more than the Images and Verses. I like that some people have started cracking into this part of the book and shared their observations. Let's keep it up! This brings me to the next point, images. There is a mix of photographs and illustrations in this part of the book. I think the illustrations are more valuable, but I am not discounting the photos. It seems that there are hidden messages and imagery in these as well. I think we can gain some info from the images. One in particular is the illustration associated with Corporate Giants. This is not even a play on words, but a bold statement on the role of huge corporations in society. Anyway, the illustration at the end has factories with smokestacks spewing pollution in the middle of nature. There appears to be at least one face and some words in the smoke. Also, to me, out of the locations being searched, it looks most like San Francisco (or near to SF). Another interesting one is The Gnome Enclature. He is pictured in front of what I believe is a book of literary terms or other reference book. The pages are open to the section that includes words such as; odeum, Oeno, and Oedipus complex, although I'm sure that last might not pertain to our task. Maybe there something of value in this image. I do think that some of the entries of Fair People are pure filler. I think part of the challenge is to sift through and glean the important stuff.

gManTexas wrote:: Another interesting one is The Gnome Enclature. He is pictured in front of what I believe is a book of literary terms or other reference book. The pages are open to the section that includes words such as; odeum, Oeno, and Oedipus complex, although I'm sure that last might not pertain to our task. Maybe there something of value in this image. The page that he is standing on is this article .

darkplacehospital wrote:: Yeah. Grant Park is named for Ulysses S Grant who was of Irish descent on his mother's side. He was, I believe, the first US president to visit Ireland though it was after he left office. During his visit to Ireland he was made an honorary citizen of Dublin. Ulysses is mentioned in the entry on Corporate Giants on P194..."blinded (by crafty Ulysses)".

At some point you have to come up for air and realize the futility in deep diving, but then you also have to watch out for shifting sands, rambling reefs, and pollution hazards while you fight for freedom amidst the noise of the surf. There is no clear method for extracting useful information out for the pool of highly obtuse knowledge in the fair folknfield guide. It's diluted without any reliable means for distillation.

...yep, I think you're right.

erexere wrote:: At some point you have to come up for air and realize the futility in deep diving, but then you also have to watch out for shifting sands, rambling reefs, and pollution hazards while you fight for freedom amidst the noise of the surf. There is no clear method for extracting useful information out for the pool of highly obtuse knowledge in the fair folknfield guide. It's diluted without any reliable means for distillation. I respectfully disagree. If you read my long post above, The Field Guide alludes to certain things that are important and uses rote to emphasize certain elements. There are references that are capitalized and repeated throughout. While there are no black and white connections, we are presented with a range on confirming clues. I still can't imagine going through all that work to include a completely disconnected body of work. If that's the case, they could have included a medical journal or a Treatise on Geochemistry, would it matter?

Hmm. I hesitate to call anything in the field guide a confirming clue. The problem is the fallacy of seeking validation in a broad collection of information.

erexere wrote:: Hmm. I hesitate to call anything in the field guide a confirming clue. The problem is the fallacy of seeking validation in a broad collection of information. Alright! Thats it! who the hell are you and what have you done with erexere?????!!!!

maltedfalcon wrote:: Alright! Thats it! who the hell are you and what have you done with erexere?????!!!! I knew that would grab your attention. The truth is, I leveled up. After many years, I stopped getting excited by the external information approach. If anything the Rosetta stone of the book is the LotJ and the content of the Migration and the Vanishing is to be embraced with caution. That at least contains a logical framework to the events and drives relating to the Fair Folk collective. The field guide is pure Jazz. Shame on Preiss for any subtle entries made in post.

gManTexas wrote:: I still can't imagine going through all that work to include a completely disconnected body of work. If that's the case, they could have included a medical journal or a Treatise on Geochemistry, would it matter? You're thinking the goal was to publish a treasure hunt and pad it out with silly fluff about fairies. I'm thinking he and his friends wanted to publish a book filled with their creative output, artwork, satire, social commentary, etc., and that he thought adding the treasure hunt would help get it more exposure and sales. (Why not both?)

Yes, I forget where I heard it from, sorry, but I definitely heard the hunt was tacked on to sell books. Because “we made up a catalogue” doesn’t get the $$

catherwood wrote:: You're thinking the goal was to publish a treasure hunt and pad it out with silly fluff about fairies. I'm thinking he and his friends wanted to publish a book filled with their creative output, artwork, satire, social commentary, etc., and that he thought adding the treasure hunt would help get it more exposure and sales. (Why not both?) Haha, we are arguing both sides of the same coin.

The hunt was created to capitalize on the successful book sales of masquerade, it came out in 1979 and immediately hit the New York times best seller list. BP immediately started working on his hunt. The rest of the book was the add on. and I have no doubt BP said hey put this in or change that... But nothing in the rest of the book rises to a clue, we can consider them merely hints.

I've thoroughly enjoyed listening to the Dan and Kat podcast on Masquerade. They talk about the Secret too.

maltedfalcon wrote:: The hunt was created to capitalize on the successful book sales of masquerade, it came out in 1979 and immediately hit the New York times best seller list. BP immediately started working on his hunt. The rest of the book was the add on. and I have no doubt BP said hey put this in or change that... But nothing in the rest of the book rises to a clue, we can consider them merely hints. I don't think that's the way it works: Masquerade was a 32 page book. Feels super weird that Preiss would say , "hmm I have 20 pages, let's tack on 200 more and hire top name talent to write an all-but-unmarketable index for puns." Maybe things were different in 1980 than they have been for my post-1999 career, but in my experience it would be bizarre for a publisher as big as bantam to say, "alright you've made a hunt based on a paradigm that sells, all we need now is to increase our printing costs 10x" Trying hard to remember where I hear the field guide came first. I don't remember, but I also remember preiss saying he'd planned the field guide since the mod 1970s Does anyone else remember this? Because it's a clear memory to me.

erexere wrote:: I've thoroughly enjoyed listening to the Dan and Kat podcast on Masquerade. They talk about the Secret too. I listened to them in the past, he's a friend. Ep#11 Masquerade = hxxp://danandkattalk.com/?p=110

drunknerds wrote:: I don't think that's the way it works: Masquerade was a 32 page book. Feels super weird that Preiss would say , "hmm I have 20 pages, let's tack on 200 more and hire top name talent to write an all-but-unmarketable index for puns." Maybe things were different in 1980 than they have been for my post-1999 career, but in my experience it would be bizarre for a publisher as big as bantam to say, "alright you've made a hunt based on a paradigm that sells, all we need now is to increase our printing costs 10x" Not at all in 1977 the Book Gnomes came out and also jumped to the top of the New York Times Best Seller List, as the next year did Faires. I can easily see BP being inspired by that but the next year when Masquerade came out and broke all picture book records. I can see where he decided to put the concepts together. Still I am pretty sure the hunt concept came first.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Not at all in 1977 the Book Gnomes came out and also jumped to the top of the New York Times Best Seller List, as the next year did Faires. I can easily see BP being inspired by that but the next year when Masquerade came out and broke all picture book records. I can see where he decided to put the concepts together. Still I am pretty sure the hunt concept came first. Oh, right I forgot about gnomes. It's completely different from the field guide, in that it takes one species and expounds on it throughout the entire book. But I could definitely see someone new to the publshing game thinking "Gnomes sold, why don't I make a book that has 200 different kinds of creatures!?" ESPECIALLY if he came form National Lampoon. The book my friends and I sold to NL was in similar "each page has a different thing that is outlined and explained" format

I'm just saying you can completely see the lineage here 77 Gnomes 78 Fairies 79 Masquerade 80 81 The Secret

I always assumed this was the inspiration for the Field Guide portion of the book, though maybe the Preppy Handbook was itself inspired by similar satire in National Lampoon and the like: So the pitch would be, "It's like Masquerade, but for grownups, with the Preppy Handbook thrown in for good measure!"

treetops wrote:: I always assumed this was the inspiration for the Field Guide portion of the book, though maybe the Preppy Handbook was itself inspired by similar satire in National Lampoon and the like: So the pitch would be, "It's like Masquerade, but for grownups, with the Preppy Handbook thrown in for good measure!" I bet you are right that fills in the 1980 spot quite nicely! 77 Gnomes 78 Fairies 79 Masquerade 80 The Official Preppy Handbook 81 The Secret

maltedfalcon wrote:: I thought the Gnome Book was just a supplemental selling guide to the Carin Tom Clark Gnome statues my grandma loved to buy Authentic gnomes had penny and an acorn somewhere on the base https://www.ebay.com/itm/Tom-Clarks-1-F ... 2929317946

Who here owns a copy of the full 226 page book?

im the one who originally posted about gnomes and faeries, you can watch a readthrough of the book on youtube. theres another book with the guy from the chicago image on the cover (same illustrator as faeries book)...you are sent to gnomes/faeries book via Dore Vase in San Fran.

NYCNative wrote:: Who here owns a copy of the full 226 page book? I need some pages from the field guide chapter of the full book.

NYCNative wrote:: I need some pages from the field guide chapter of the full book. I have the reprint. What were you looking for?

froud, particularly, was inspired by this guy: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Rackham

NYCNative wrote:: I need some pages from the field guide chapter of the full book.

NYCNative wrote:: Why?

The Scottish Highland Fair folk sailed in their little boats, over the sea, beyond Skye......this is a reference to Robert Louis Stevenson's poem "Sing me a song of a lad that is gone". I know that some have found connections to RLS, I think SF is one.

Wicket wrote:: Because I am looking for a few pages of information

NYCNative wrote:: Because I am looking for a few pages of information The suspense is killing me. Are you afraid to simply ask for the info out in the open? When you find someone with the original book (as I have), will you be requesting info via private message?

catherwood wrote:: The suspense is killing me. Are you afraid to simply ask for the info out in the open? When you find someone with the original book (as I have), will you be requesting info via private message? Yes and yes.

anus905 wrote:: im the one who originally posted about gnomes and faeries, you can watch a readthrough of the book on youtube. theres another book with the guy from the chicago image on the cover (same illustrator as faeries book)...you are sent to gnomes/faeries book via Dore Vase in San Fran. I'm not clear on how the Bacchus/cherubs design of the Dore vase links to the Gnomes/Fairies book can you explain that. And just to clarify, where was the Dore Vase in 1981?

dore vase was where it is. answers in the name.

anus905 wrote:: dore vase was where it is. answers in the name. Well no - the vase was put there in may of 2005 here is a picture from the 80s of that area. but regardless of that it was owned by the De Young , It was probably somewhere in Golden Gate park at that time, just not there. (unless it was on loan to another museum) Still not clear on the Dore part... how does it lead to Gnomes/Fairies books... Doré (disambiguation) From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia Doré may refer to: Doré bullion, a semi-pure alloy of gold and silver Lake Doré, a freshwater lake Doré Records, an American record label Doré v Barreau du Québec, a Supreme Court of Canada case La Doré, a municipality of Quebec, Canada People with the surname Doré: Alexander Doré (1923-2002), British actor André Doré (born 1958), former professional ice hockey player Armand Doré (1824-1882), French painter Daniel Doré (born 1970), former professional ice hockey right winger Edna Doré (1921–2014), British actress Gustave Doré (1832–1883), French artist, engraver, illustrator and sculptor Jean Doré (born 1944), Canadian politician Julien Doré (born 1982), French singer Marie-Joseph-Camille Doré (born 1831), captain in the French navy Pierre Doré (c. 1500-1559), also known as Auratus, French Dominican theologian

yea its in there^ and should be obvious...click on the right one. I mean, the answer to your question has been copied and pasted in your post lol...

it was always in the statue garden.

NYCNative wrote:: The suspense is killing me. Are you afraid to simply ask for the info out in the open? When you find someone with the original book (as I have), will you be requesting info via private message? Yes and yes. I have to point out that I said there was info in the book and everyone laughed. I am not sure how much the info helps, it could just be confirmation. I did contact U of Maryland to see if I could get the 1982 edition tomorrow. As it turns out, the book is out and not due back until JULY! The librarian told me that staff and faculty could borrow books for that length of time. So very interesting. I wrote to the LOC help desk to see how I can get a copy. I also wrote to the printer. I need to clarify if there really is a difference in the editions. The new book does not say "second edition", so that could mean there were no changes. Here is a description of the 1982 book from U of M. It says there are 224 pages, not 226. Not sure why there is a discrepancy. https://1drv.ms/b/s!An5iiS4FlLlEgzUbfiiffjLsNi7v I am curious myself. Worldcat.org lists locations of libraries that carry it. There may be one near you. If it is a university and you are not a student, you can go to your library and get the librarian to ask for an inter library loan. I hope this helps the people looking for an original copy.

anus905 wrote:: it was always in the statue garden. Well no again, it was located in various places around golden gate park, and at some point was loaned out to another museum. The area it is in now was not there prior to 2005 as a matter of fact the space between the two sphinxes was a walkway.

Wicket wrote:: The new book does not say "second edition", so that could mean there were no changes. Here is a description of the 1982 book from U of M. It says there are 224 pages, not 226. Not sure why there is a discrepancy. https://1drv.ms/b/s!An5iiS4FlLlEgzUbfiiffjLsNi7v I am curious myself. Worldcat.org lists locations of libraries that carry it. There may be one near you. If it is a university and you are not a student, you can go to your library and get the librarian to ask for an inter library loan. I hope this helps the people looking for an original copy. The paperback edition has 226 pages, supposedly there are no changes between 1982 and now. There are some for sale on alibris.com, and I'm sure places like eBay. Alibris has sales guarantees, so if you don't like the copy, send it back.

Wicket wrote:: I have to point out that I said there was info in the book and everyone laughed. I am not sure how much the info helps, it could just be confirmation. You do realize that this thread is named “Clues in the book” and that it was created 2 days BEFORE you joined the site? I doubt anyone was laughing at your statement. Possibly just your application of the information within the book.

Wicket wrote:: The paperback edition has 226 pages, supposedly there are no changes between 1982 and now. There are some for sale on alibris.com, and I'm sure places like eBay. Alibris has sales guarantees, so if you don't like the copy, send it back. Only the reprint, with all-too-dark images, is being sold on sites right now. Good if you want to have is and read the fairy stuff. Not good for image reproduction. Someone put an original copy on ebay last month and it went for ~$600

drunknerds wrote:: Only the reprint, with all-too-dark images, is being sold on sites right now. Good if you want to have is and read the fairy stuff. Not good for image reproduction. Someone put an original copy on ebay last month and it went for ~$600 I think someone wanted to look at print, not pictures so a reprint is fine. I spoke with the publisher and he said there was no difference between 1982 and now. I think the big deal was if some of the print had been changed or not.

BINGO wrote:: You do realize that this thread is named “Clues in the book” and that it was created 2 days BEFORE you joined the site? I doubt anyone was laughing at your statement. Possibly just your application of the information within the book. I do realize the time frame, thank you. No, people said there is no information in the book. And, if there was info in there, my application was wrong. How would anyone know that?

Unknown: No, people said there is no information in the book. People say that because that is the way it was reported: 5. B.Preiss was a very good poker player, and was not giving out any hints about any of the other locations. However, he did confirm my theory that the countries of origin of the faeries do connect with the sites. He also said that the pages following the verses (which make up the bulk of the book) have NO connection with the puzzles, and contain no additional clues. ( viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1126 )

wicket the issue isn't content but image quality in the reprint.

Wicket wrote:: I do realize the time frame, thank you. No, people said there is no information in the book. And, if there was info in there, my application was wrong. How would anyone know that? No one really knows what information is or isn’t relevant. It’s all speculation until there is a discovery. The point of this thread is to discuss these things. It seems like the point of your post is to take credit for the general idea and to make yourself some type of victim of The Secret forum bullying. Neither is the case. Just my $0.02

Wicket wrote:: I spoke with the publisher and he said there was no difference between 1982 and now. I think the big deal was if some of the print had been changed or not. I got this joke, and enjoyed it.

Unknown: It’s all speculation until there is a discovery. It's not all speculation. I think we are good with the Image/Verse/City connections and think we should use those as the baseline for any new ideas regarding what happens next. Just my two pennies.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: It's not all speculation. I think we are good with the Image/Verse/City connections and think we should use those as the baseline for any new ideas regarding what happens next. Just my two pennies. Clarification: I was talking about this particular thread. The clues in the field guide portion of the book are being speculated. My opinion, not trying to speak for others. Keep your change.

BINGO wrote:: No one really knows what information is or isn’t relevant. It’s all speculation until there is a discovery. The point of this thread is to discuss these things. It seems like the point of your post is to take credit for the general idea and to make yourself some type of victim of The Secret forum bullying. Neither is the case. Just my $0.02 Just trying to find out if an original was needed and to pass on the info. I spoke with the publisher to see. That way if you are inclined to search the book you can feel ok using a newer print. And maybe I do feel bullied but I definitely don't feel the need to take credit. It was tongue in cheek, sometimes it is hard to convey the inflection of a voice. As far as speculation, you made my point.

I'm of the opinion that the original is not needed but it may prove more helpful when solving one of the more difficult puzzles.

Just to reiterate for those needing better images. If you use worldcat.org, you can search by author name, etc. I used "Byron Preiss The Secret" for my search. It pulls up The Secret, but then you have to click on "view all additions". Then click on 1982 edition. You can then put in your zip code and it will list libraries closest to you then working outward.

Wicket wrote:: Just to reiterate for those needing better images. If you use worldcat.org, you can search by author name, etc. I used "Byron Preiss The Secret" for my search. It pulls up The Secret, but then you have to click on "view all additions". Then click on 1982 edition. You can then put in your zip code and it will list libraries closest to you then working outward. That's great info, thanks! And, just so the thread doesn't get confused by sarcasm: The reprint images are garbage. There's stuff in the wiki uploads that is clear and is impossible to see in the reprint. The publisher is lying to boost sales if they said there's no different. I'm looking at a side-by-side right now (my reprint and the scans). IT's garbage.

drunknerds wrote:: The publisher is lying to boost sales if they said there's no different. I'm looking at a side-by-side right now (my reprint and the scans). IT's garbage. If you look closely what you will see is they say the text in the books is the same.

I have both a beat up original and the 2015 iBooks hard cover version. The only major difference in the text that I see is on page 219 “The Treasure” where they updated the contact info and added a statement about the death of Preiss. They were also reaching out to the finders of the Cleveland and Chicago casques. Other than that, it looks pretty much the same.

maltedfalcon wrote:: If you look closely what you will see is they say the text in the books is the same. Correct. I asked the publisher if they would consider printing the paintings, as long as they could make good copies. I will see........

BINGO wrote:: I have both a beat up original and the 2015 iBooks hard cover version. The only major difference in the text that I see is on page 219 “The Treasure” where they updated the contact info and added a statement about the death of Preiss. They were also reaching out to the finders of the Cleveland and Chicago casques. Other than that, it looks pretty much the same. That is what the publisher said.

maltedfalcon wrote:: If you look closely what you will see is they say the text in the books is the same. Ah yes, I did get confused. Hopefully my post that you quoted will help others from not doing the same and buying the book for the images

Thank you all for the help. I was able to get the whole book as needed.

drunknerds wrote:: That's great info, thanks! And, just so the thread doesn't get confused by sarcasm: The reprint images are garbage. There's stuff in the wiki uploads that is clear and is impossible to see in the reprint. The publisher is lying to boost sales if they said there's no different. I'm looking at a side-by-side right now (my reprint and the scans). IT's garbage. I've been waiting for 2 months for interlibrary loan to check it out to me. I'm still 4th in the queue.

Some other potential text clues: Werner von Brownie (Braun) - p 174 Is about the rocket man himself and talks about the first “rockets” created by the Chinese after they created gun powder. Wingless bird ascended comes to mind hxxp://sen.com/features/history-of-rocketry-part-1 The gnome enclature - p 182 Talks about the changing and blending of languages with all the immigrants to America. The first lines of this story: “Infesting the ivied towers of the High Mandarin academese and the cluttering the gutters of the low slum argot (littered as they are with dropped g’s and h’s). https://www.ling.upenn.edu/~jiahong/pub ... ns/cn1.pdf https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/H-dropping Seems an odd coincidence that it references Chinese (Mandarin) and g and h like in the San Fran Image thought to be a reference to great highway or Ghirardelli

the first one applies to sf so you must stay within the context of that puzzle. von braun was brought to america and it was his technology that became nasa, and it was his technology that got us to the moon with apollo 11 (11 moons).

the second one is much more complex. it firstly takes you to a book with this quote: "They did not come together in a way, for instance, that high mandarins do on the whim of a beautiful dream of tomorrow" you may not actually need the book...i can finish this, i just need a linguist first...i might be able to find out on my own, but im not certain on the term used. googling this quote did not seem to help me (i found it via a guy who was trying to translate it to spanish from english, which is what you will find if you google it) so im not sure what book its from. finding the book would be a benefit. --getting lucky in the digital age-- lol then it takes you to les miserables. then to irish hill via a set of poems, while giving you loads of hints along the way. then it gives you a ratio which is repeatedly given to you. and gives you a very important hint for the most important clue in the book (which i actually just figured out tonight).

pg 193 - Corporate Giants Houston and Dallas are possibly boot prints where they have stomped. Each is but a man step for Giantkind. Could possibly link Houston (space city/tranquility park) to “giant step, giant pole” verse lines.

jayheedan1 wrote:: pg 193 - Corporate Giants Houston and Dallas are possibly boot prints where they have stomped. Each is but a man step for Giantkind. Could possibly link Houston (space city/tranquility park) to “giant step, giant pole” verse lines. post the surrounding text and ill give ya the answer.

Reading / laughing thru the posts you guys wrote, I find it really interesting the way most of you think/sees in the "Chinese", and our history. (I'm native Chinese.) I can assure you that whatever you saw in those articles were definitely misleading and most of the translation were.....LOL

Spiritr wrote:: Reading / laughing thru the posts you guys wrote, I find it really interesting the way most of you think/sees in the "Chinese", and our history. (I'm native Chinese.) I can assure you that whatever you saw in those articles were definitely misleading and most of the translation were.....LOL

front cover and back cover if you can!

Very interesting find. I wonder if any new insight can be found in the way it may have been translated. Some of the word play may not make sense in a different language. (Not that the English version is crystal clear!)

The Asian translation of two twenty two is 2 20 2 in that image. Was that an original from the publisher in 1981 or a reprint or a Chinese knock off I wonder... the racetrack address 222 in Montreal unaffected by this but other theories might be.

Goldengate wrote:: It's actually a Japanese translation. I believe this is an original copy published in 1982. The person who has it lives in Japan, but is really jazzed about the hunt. She doesn't plan on coming here to dig (yet), but like us all, the sense of imagination, mystery and adventure has drawn her in and she loves how it evokes the childhood wonder we all shared in that there are real magical mysteries in this world and if you search hard enough... you just may find them. That is awesome, I had no idea there were translations!

But it would make sense, given the premise of the book is about immigration.

Also that last page looks like Spanish

I actually like this name a lot Fairy's Treasure Box that's kinda weird to me, 2 20 2... was it really a 1982 book? But Byron Preiss Publishing and the printing quality doesn't looks pirate to me because a lot of pirate books in asia, those translations were all done by computer, so it would make sense that it's computer translated, but it actually read pretty smooth to me... for the last part, was it a Spanish/Jap book or a English/Jap book? I was listening to the podcast the other day when talked about how Byron was into comic books, in my mind I was like.....he's in the wrong country for comics, especially in the 80's Now seeing it in Japanese, maybe I should see if there's one in Chinese

OMG I found it, 1983, 3 available for $25.23. Done, got'em all already

the verse goes: or gaze north toward the isle of B. look up that tiny island's B version. if I was right, that's hiding a clues to the extreme! it's in the Japanese version. great find goldengate, you don't know how bad I wanted those image in shinny papers, now for only $80 I got 3 copies, THANK YOU!

Haha, well spotted Spiritr! おめでとうございます.

wait a minute....the sound of a Japanese v ビ is exactly like a Spanish β.! Japanese have no"v" sound, they only have "bi" oh no, they don't ship to US.......

Unknown: for the last part, was it a Spanish/Jap book or a English/Jap book? Wait for it...

they can't ship to US , I placed the order with quick check out, I got the thank you page, then check back 20 mintures later, it saids address ships within Japan only.. Amazon doesn't have such options in Japan, and this is how it always been in Japan, sigh....

...just came across this article; maybe you can get around it with a "reshipper" like Tenso...? https://ridwankhan.com/buying-and-shipp ... f8ec62a92a

WhiteRabbit wrote:: ...just came across this article; maybe you can get around it with a "reshipper" like Tenso...? https://ridwankhan.com/buying-and-shipp ... f8ec62a92a it's so confusing , I'll check it out later after lunch or something but man, look at this, $8!

...I should start by going to tenso.com and signing up. It's pretty easy to register and you can see your "Japanese address", but it looks like they require you to upload a copy of one of the listed documents as proof of identify (passport or whatever) to verify your account before going any further, and I bailed at that point. Back in 2010 I was able to pick up a mint copy on amazon.co.uk for 50p...and I chucked my old one away...

................................ I'm gonna get it, RIGHT NOW! that sound's more like he's give you the answer's and not instructions, the first line reads "this is per translator's understanding".... 2 20 2, his translation was Mountain, Rivers, and Street..... that's not translation, that's transformation! And I'll point out the anything unusual along the wait, so far, I see.... they have a "Higher/Upper Class Fair people" Cathy is officially called CHINA , and .....Cyprus, and Egypt, instead of what we had Italy and Libera.

NEXT PAGE PLEASE~~~~~ btw the title cleary reads "Fairy's treasure box" she used Japanese to transcript Japanese and apply it in English, that's how you got BOOK, and in Jap, that's a children's book..

Goldengate wrote:: Okay, everyone, here's an update: I've been communicating with the Japanese owner of this book (who, yes, lives in Japan) and she's generously taken additional photos to share with the group. As you can see there are quite a few images between the covers that are NOT found in any US printing! But more important, in our discussions, she's provided some very interesting additional information. a) This is the first (possibly only) printing for the Japanese market, translated and published in 1983. b) This Japanese title of the book is not "The Secret" but rather "Fairy Book" c) Here's what may be the most important element: Pages 233 onward contain hints from BP exclusively to Japanese readers! The translator called BP in 82 or 83 before publishing and from what it sounds like... BP provided hints specific to Japanese readers who may not know about certain elements of Western culture, customs, details of cities, etc. This may be totally benign, BP could have just rehashed information he released in press interviews he did when the book was published in the US. OR in that conversation with the translator, he could have let loose with a couple juicy clues we've never received — maybe intended for an audience he figured would likely never travel to the US and dig. I do my best to try and not to peddle hyperbole, but if it's true that BP added printed clues for this publication, it could be a big deal for us all! She is currently translating those pages to see if they'd be of any help to us. Please be patient, it's going to take a while. I'll update information as I get it. What I’d love most is if the information she provides unveils a vital clue that unlocks one or more casque locations! The idea that it may take an international team working together to solve this puzzle feels like it taps into the very spirit of the book itself. Please be patient on the translation, since she’s on the other side of the planet, I may not receive it until tomorrow at the earliest. Also please note the pages will likely not be in order when I upload them below. This is so cool, GG! Thanks for posting.

Amazing discovery! Thanks GG. Look forward to seeing more of these...

oh no, no, that's not what this page and the lines are for Japanese doesn't use "space" much, they read word per word, and those are not key words, that is there for Japanese kids to understand easier for example, with out the translation, "No Lion fears" , would mean without the Lion I'm scared, or don't scared of Lions, so that's why it needs explanation. I can get the transcript out the the whole book in less than an hour without editorial check. Might as well just send it to me , I'll DO it. and I do this EVERYDAY! Part of my job is to read and translate English to Japanese Chinese and S. Korean. JUST LET ME DO IT!

...I wanna see the notes on the Boston verse...

Goldengate wrote:: She is currently translating those pages to see if they'd be of any help to us. Please be patient, it's going to take a while. I'll update information as I get it. The google translate app will do it in a few seconds. Works best with a straight on shot of the page but I was able to translate (mostly) one of the images you uploaded.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: ...I wanna see the notes on the Boston verse... ntgu, or hint) ent Free.peech,. rant white. It is said that ← toki and couplet two rows, please t1. 3rd verse riri "siii couplet fII Thucydides shake xe7tik: 2 trll Xenopbon s EII green tower of lights a tiIl coliseum 9 til metal walls 11 lines 11 15 lines 11 Eighteenth day 16 tFII Twelfth hour What is not famous for Kotojun? Stairs 5 poetry words) a mn Lane Two twenty tw 3 lines 11 of of lights fi I Weight and 17 till lamplight (Keys [For hidden meanings or third poems, there are things, hints turned into answers It will not be long ago · a hint can be obtained wingless bird white stone cl_st line 11 fourth 4 line 11 (key · word) 1 11 countries There is a meaning, or hin) or 4 ' Here it is famous 倢 bt Lateit.Ill famous, it is proper noun and diarrhea, what kind of & R ___ ___ __ 1 ___ __ 1 ___ __ 1 ___ __ 1 ___ __ 1 ___ __ 1 ___ __ 2 ___ 0 1 2111 curves 3 til rectangular 4 till tenth store 6H 11 ninth row 7 frll small bricks 8 IrB Seven steps up 4 eq weight and roots: 9 till w ngles bird literally It seems that it is good to cover / to NCnteu.-Rnas. ___ ___ ___ ___ 0 ___ ___ 0 ___ ___ ___ 0 ___ ___ ___ 0 As you say, think about thinking law with sex. This wineless 239 238 Lol diarrhea the translation needs work I hope or the translator punk’d BP

...just the idea that BP (apparently) thought the thing could be solved without visiting the country back in 1983 seems pretty astonishing...

those mean numbers of line, and of that line, the word, and the meaning of it BUT the way he explains certain things was something I won't understand if today is 1983, because the pace of their everyday life is so fast to a point a word or phrase used 20 years ago would mean completely different today, especially in Japan, HK, the pace of these Asian cities were known to be fast. That's why I like USA, nothing gets outdated.

申し訳ありません、 翻訳しても構いませんが、 ちょうど私に写真を直接送ってください、ありがとう just copy and paste to her, when she send you the picture, you just post it up, I'll make a ranscript when I see it. 私の友人は私を助けます、英語の手書きは違う、それはあなたにありがとう that's to thank her for her friendly help, ....

Unknown: ...just the idea that BP (apparently) thought the thing could be solved without visiting the country... I seriously doubt that he thought that at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure he knew that it couldn't, at least not with the tools available in 1983. But that's the myth BP had to peddle, whether the buyer was in Boise, or Bangkok if he wanted to maximize sales.

I'm particularly interested in the artwork that's not in our books .cool as hell

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I seriously doubt that he thought that at all. In fact, I'm pretty sure he knew that it couldn't, at least not with the tools available in 1983. But that's the myth BP had to peddle, whether the buyer was in Boise, or Bangkok if he wanted to maximize sales. I suspect the rules would have applied differently if you sent an letter from Japan saying I suspect the Chicago casque is in Grant park lined up with a fence and fixture at the end of an array of trees behind the Lincoln statue. He probably would have said yes you are correct! I will get it for you. if you sent the same letter from Chicago, he said here is a picture of the location exactly go dig it up.

Unknown: Maltedfalcon wrote: I have determined the site of a treasure, but I am unable to explore it. I suspect you are incorrect. The rules would have been exactly the same, regardless of where you lived.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I suspect you are incorrect. The rules would have been exactly the same, regardless of where you lived. Agree to disagree, already we can see the Japanese book had colloquial glossaries that versions sold in america did not and while we probably didn't need them I can see where we have argued over the interpretations of those words in the glossary so in reality we were just as confused as others outside the country would have been.

Unknown: already we can see the Japanese book had colloquial glossaries that versions sold in america did not As you said, because native English speakers didn't need them. We all know what words like "birch", "hush", and "hearth" mean, we just don't know in what context(s) Preiss was using them in the Verses. So while it's a pretty sure bet that the glossaries in the Japanese version might have helped a reader understand the text a little better, I seriously doubt that they would have helped anyone solve the puzzles. I don't think translating the Japanese edition back to English is going to provide any clarity on the hunt, but it will no doubt give us one more thing to argue about.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I don't think translating the Japanese edition back to English is going to provide any clarity on the hunt, but it will no doubt give us one more thing to argue about. Goldengate wrote:: Verse 1 < KEY WORDS > L1 north L2 Cold L3 south L6 Nine eight two L7 wood L8 No Lion fears L9 the water veers L10 Small of scale L13 four alike L14 Small, split L15 Three winged and slight L21 There’s the spout! L22 A whistle sounds. < HINTS > L9 “the water veers” Water that spouts to the sky. Is it a fountain in the park? or fountain in the nature? L10 “Small of scale small” means of course small, but “scale”? We say “scale model” in Japan, too. L16-17 “what we take to be Our strongest tower of delight” This is a quote from a famous book. Well, what is the famous book? L21 “There’s the spout!” This seems to correspond to the "the water veers" on the 9th line, but of course the meaning is naturally .... I guess we should go ahead and start the argument or maybe a healthy debate? The translated verse 1 of Japanese “hint” that was already posted tells us of probably the most important aspects of the verse even stating that some of the lines were a direct quote from a famous book. Of course we know it was from Pierre by Herman Melville but if we hadn’t that would be a huge clue what to look for. I for one am most interested in seeing if it mentions anything about him of Hard words in 3 vols...

Maybe she could fast track it and just take a good close up picture of each page and people here on the boards can translate some of them as well that way the burden isn’t all on her.

Goldengate wrote:: words Yo, I snagged one of these. If for some reason you cant get your own, I will scan the one I receive, make the pages available here then send it to you if you would like.

Goldengate wrote:: Hey! That would be awesome -- truly! No problem. Thank you for sharing this with everyone. You could have easily kept it to yourself. Hopefully now we can make sure that everyone can benefit from it.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: ...I wanna see the notes on the Boston verse... Spiritr, Under the monkey fairy with flower it’s says something about the no lion fears clue. When I run it through the translator It comes out something like this can you clean it up? Hint: With regard to the third poem, there is a fear that the hint will be an answer because it is there · It is a pity that the hint is obtained The image doesn’t allow for all the characters/words to be scanned I think is part of the issue.

Some of these illustrations resemble illustrations in some of Byron's other works as well... I wonder if there is a reason for that, or if it's just generic clip art.

jayheedan1 wrote:: [ The translated verse 1 of Japanese “hint” that was already posted tells us of probably the most important aspects of the verse even stating that some of the lines were a direct quote from a famous book. Of course we know it was from Pierre by Herman Melville but if we hadn’t that would be a huge clue what to look for. I for one am most interested in seeing if it mentions anything about him of Hard words in 3 vols... guys, maybe it does contain some infos that weren't mentioned before but just because you don't understand, can you stop saying it as hint hint hint hint .... and then in times...other people will follow by calling this a hint page. NO! This page is translation of words for kids, it's really important to have these translation pages, it is NOT a HINT page. Japanese have East West South, but they don't called it North like we do, North works like a adjective in Japanese language, so by seeing North of, even some adults would have no idea what it is they call their North by from south, toward up, something like that if you understand the language, it's beautiful the way this works.

Fenix wrote:: Start a go fund me and we can help make it worth her while. fund me and ill tell you all the houston answers lol

the wood no lion fears is the african shaped woods

This book is the most exciting breakthrough in years Goldengate. Kudos for sharing this stuff.

Goldengate wrote:: The air smells sweetly, let's think about idiomatically as "the air like..." ...does your contact have any thoughts on what this idiomatic Japanese phrase might be...?

...well, congrats to the people who managed to find this thing online. I've spent the last hour messing with Kanji OCR and Japanese websites, and no trace, so I guess I'll just have to wait patiently for the idiot's version...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: This book is the most exciting breakthrough in years Goldengate. Kudos for sharing this stuff. Yes, super exciting! Thank your contact for us!

Very interesting find! Curious to know if there might also be any other foreign language editions hiding out there in the world...

...yeah, GG did offer this glimpse of a possible Spanish/Mexican edition... I tried dropping a note to John Colby earlier, though I dunno whether he'd have access to that information, or has set up spam filters for emails containing the word "secret"...

Yow...I'm late to see this thread, but, awesome find, GG! Looking forward (patiently) to see more of the translations of the 'hints' that were inserted... (I work for a Japanese company. Coworkers would get a kick outta this...then ask me for a market study, budget report or biz plan. ) =D

How literal can these translations be taken? “High posts are three” translated ‘hint’ says posts are wooden. Could the translation just as well said ‘post made of metal?’ As an English speaker I would say without a doubt that we would be looking for something made of wood. In Japan would it be used as an adjective to say look for an a physical post an not something conceptual like a job post? Or should we be looking for posts made of wood? Sutro tower is made of steel...new can of worms.

jayheedan1 wrote:: How literal can these translations be taken? “High posts are three” translated ‘hint’ says posts are wooden. Could the translation just as well said ‘post made of metal?’ As an English speaker I would say without a doubt that we would be looking for something made of wood. In Japan would it be used as an adjective to say look for an a physical post an not something conceptual like a job post? Or should we be looking for posts made of wood? Sutro tower is made of steel...new can of worms. It's really going to depend on what the rest of the book says. Whether or not the translator actually spoke to byron. The hint for Roanoke says something to the effect of "I cant give you a hint because a hit would basically be the answer" So at this point I'm leaning towards taking these hints verbatim.

Goldengate wrote:: L5 Education and Justice It is ambiguous by this alone, but it will make it easier to understand put "can be seen not for" after "education and justice". What(Where?) is it like to see "education and justice" not far away? Discuss... As you went to the wharf sign posts after reading the translation, This new lens of information made me go to Alcatraz or a place where it can be seen.

burnstyle wrote:: Some of these illustrations resemble illustrations in some of Byron's other works as well... I wonder if there is a reason for that, or if it's just generic clip art. None of the new art is by the original book's artists. I suspect they were all out of contract by then and would have had no interest or time to make new illustrations to decorate the new pages. It's just fantasy-style art, probably supplied by the Japanese publisher but subject to Byron's approval. I wonder if the image quality is equal to, worse than, or better than the English version.

Unknown: As you went to the wharf sign posts after reading the translation Nobody reading the translation was going anywhere. Not for a prize worth less than $1K.

Unknown: I think it's safe to say for most seeking this treasure, it's not about the money. That may be true today, but I was talking about someone reading the book in Japan 35 years ago. They would have looked at solving the puzzle in a completely different way than I do in 2018. So, while I agree with your statement above, it is irrelevant to the point I was making.

Spiritr wrote:: guys, maybe it does contain some infos that weren't mentioned before but just because you don't understand, can you stop saying it as hint hint hint hint .... and then in times...other people will follow by calling this a hint page. NO! This page is translation of words for kids, it's really important to have these translation pages, it is NOT a HINT page. Spiritr you are not understanding. in the past we have had weeks long discussions on things like: does the word Sweet indicate taste? or smell? or disposition? or is it a analogy or metaphor. To have a glossary that in this case indicates Sweet is the word meaning a sweet taste. is actually an incredible hint that eliminates many possible wrong paths. So yes its a glossary, it adds clarification and Yes that means it's a great hint page. That being said to be valid we need to find out if the translator actually vetted the translations with BP or it was just a standard japanese publishing method that they do in every translated book.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: That may be true today, but I was talking about someone reading the book in Japan 35 years ago. They would have looked at solving the puzzle in a completely different way than I do in 2018. So, while I agree with your statement above, it is irrelevant to the point I was making. From day one it hasn't been about the money or the gem. anybody who could do math realized the gem's individually aren't really worth a lot. It has always been about the challenge of the puzzle. I have always said, if I had to give up the key to get the gem, I would keep the key.

Unknown: It has always been about the challenge of the puzzle. We accept challenges based in part on our perceived ability to meet them, or at the very least, come close trying. Once it becomes clear that we are never going to succeed (and sometimes, that never is fully resolved), a sane person generally gives up. You (and I) accepted BP's challenge because we thought we could succeed where others failed, and we continue on with the puzzle for the same reason. There are a few more like us Matt (my guess is a couple dozen, at most), but I think it's safe to say that there weren't any in Japan in 1983. Which, again, is what I was talking about in my reply to Jay.

I've linked a side by side of an image 12 detail: https://imgur.com/a/LLfxD7V The Japanese book has the image printed larger and parts near the bottom of the American image have been cropped out. I circled something that doesn't appear in the American image. There's more, too, but hard to make out just now.

karleen wrote:: I've linked a side by side of an image 12 detail: https://imgur.com/a/LLfxD7V The Japanese book has the image printed larger and parts near the bottom of the American image have been cropped out. I circled something that doesn't appear in the American image. There's more, too, but hard to make out just now. your arrows aren't lined up draw a line straight down from the gem and you will see you are off to one side. it looks the same just darker because of the scan quality

maltedfalcon wrote:: your arrows aren't lined up draw a line straight down from the gem and you will see you are off to one side. it looks the same just darker because of the scan quality Matt, I was following the shapes in the water but I will try again to confirm.

Here is an overlap of the water area from i12, outlined in black, overlayed onto japanese i12. The curve of the open page would account for the width and it appears there's not as much cut off from the bottom as I had originally thought. https://imgur.com/a/fLTPXjw

Unknown: Why have you REALLY logged hundreds of posts over several years? Dearest Golden Gate, I have been a member of this forum for 8.5 years. I have, including this one, 744 posts under this handle, which is the only one I have ever used. Most of them are on topic and respectful. And none of them are edited. I say what I mean and I stand behind what I say. I'm sorry if any of that bothers you, but you always have the option of not reading what I write, or putting me on ignore altogether. You, on the other hand, have almost 300 posts in the last six months, and fully half, if not more, are you attacking Josh in some manner. That's a fact. And now, you are coming after me? And think that I will answer any of your questions? Please.

Dear Renovator, Try not to be too logical on the boards or present any information that might make someone and certain outside groups less authoritative. The intent of posts on the board should be to obfuscate and drive traffic elsewhere, not to keep this board alive or release anything new. You have been engaging in wrong think. Do not post information that is meaningful, and definitely do not respond to anything that might be meaningful. Is it not becoming apparent? They want you removed.

Unknown: Try not to be too logical on the boards or present any information that might make someone and certain outside groups less authoritative. Dearest 421, This is not something that anyone can complain (and complain and complain) to Mark Parry about. At least, I don't think they can. We'll see. Peace.

V salute for life!

how the f**k do i troll? YOU ARE THE TROLL. look at my posts vs yours. get a fucking life. you suck ass.

.....it is indeed hints from Byron himself international calls from Japan to BP M and B in his word, think of some famous music composer's name, who's name starts with the letter M and B and he even spells out the exact word Bryon told him, a politician

Thanks GG! I'm intrigued by the lengthy entry for "Lane" on P239, always a mystery, and would like to hear any ideas or translations for that. *edit* Looks like there could be a ton of valuable info here...we might finally discover who him of Hard word is...

mountain? river? street? or....?

Thanks Spiritr!

its sherbrooke and the racetrack (both) you go from one to the other...lane to lane...

he purposely skipping those really important ones

Sound from the sky noise made by airplane

Iron horse?? Chicken???

ok I'm gonna be late for work but I'll finish this one of him of 3 vols: From this line on- the biggest question he asked and Byron told him.... riddle it's either like a riddle or as a riddle. Let me look into it more, and... use the word "chicken" to figure out who he is/or use this riddle "chicken" to get in touch with this person.

forest_blight wrote:: Iron horse?? Chicken??? he said think of it like "iron horse" , in japanese it mean motorcycle something...of/with an engine or machinery that's how this term should apply

Starting with chicken start is chicken the word "Starto" I have no idea what it mean, it's like speaking english in Japanese, very common, but never seen this word before...."startowa"? I'm 90% positive it meant Start with....but I might be wrong, for now. so it's not the author, he asked Byron and his answer is: To get this person , start is/with chicken, that's what he/they said.

Spiritr wrote:: ok I'm gonna be late for work but I'll finish this one of him of 3 vols: From this line on- the biggest question he asked and Byron told him.... riddle it's either like a riddle or as a riddle. Let me look into it more, and... use the word "chicken" to figure out who he is/or use this riddle "chicken" to get in touch with this person. "Chicken" leads us to Col. Harland David Sanders and Kentucky. Clearly. ;-] /me patiently waits for info on stories, drum and leaf....

so...the 3 Vols is....KFC?

Spiritr wrote:: so...the 3 Vols is....KFC? Well, it was a secret recipe....and led to regular, spicy and extra crispy....

they don't call it KFC in Japan just so you know OK, here is your drum: here a bit difficult( it's already very difficult to describe the whole story, this is even more difficult); that means the translator knew the answer but he don't know how to describe it! I can't believe he actually say it out like that... think of the word "drum" as in percussion, you must think about a man's name, and to achieve it, prepare one(relatively big one) dictionary, find the word/term "drum", look for a point before and after, to achieve this person's name. Treasure can't be given out so easily....

You’ll often hear whirring sounds Japanese note translates this detail: It seems to need human power to do it. A bike?

the line goes like this: Mr. Priess hints, a runs/walk there yourself is needed/necessary in order to hear it

Spiritr wrote:: they don't call it KFC in Japan just so you know OK, here is your drum: here a bit difficult( it's already very difficult to describe the whole story, this is even more difficult); that means the translator knew the answer but he don't know how to describe it! I can't believe he actually say it out like that... think of the word "drum" as in percussion, you must think about a man's name, and to achieve it, prepare one(relatively big one) dictionary, find the word/term "drum", look for a point before and after, to achieve this person's name. Treasure can't be given out so easily.... Big drum = tympany.........someone named Tim? Someone with Bass in their name? I think I may know what the chicken thing is, but have to think on it some more.

Google translate wrote:: "21th line On a proud, tall fifth What is the fifth such fifth (fifth)? I did not tell you. Mr. Priace felt as if I asked the name of various things in various places · Apparently it is a tree. Of course, I declare that it is a tree, so I declare it as 53, and I can not take responsibility as I am, but I personally think that it may be a tree. " Google translate wrote:: "[Hidden meaning, or hint] 1st line the Three stories of Mitchell · Mitchell's stories of the ninth poetry ", but this stories is a falsehood · Three stories of writer Mitchell · Is it Mitsuelu's three storied buildings? Although I interpreted it as three stories, Mr. Priace (avoiding the statement) said "I strongly showed the 3 - storied building, so also a transliteration. I decided to take it there." Google Translate isn't that bad . This section, regarding the "tall proud fifth", tells me that the guy who wrote the 'hints' spoke with Preiss...got some info....then, he guessed. (Notice the spelling of Preiss after translation....written phonetically, probably using Hiragana.) Well, everybody for the first 2 to 3 decades thought it was a tree, too... Looks like he's just guessing (sometimes), offering up possibilities (in his opinion), without locking onto a certainty....all of that based on what was probably an interesting interview, where Preiss probably let some things slip. (I wrote, 'probably' let some stuff slip, based on the comment about the 3 stories and transliteration----"Mr. Priace (avoiding the statement) said...") GG....I'm definitely looking forward to more translations from your friend. (I'm not sure that Google Translate will match that of somebody with Japanese as a native language.)

Sounds from the sky.....the last line, This kind of sound can not be heard without using special machine *I didn't saw the ? after Airplane's blasting sound, sorry I was in a hurry it reads : sound of the bird? sound of the wind? Airplane's blasting sound?

karleen wrote:: Big drum = tympany.........someone named Tim? Someone with Bass in their name? I think I may know what the chicken thing is, but have to think on it some more. point/dot before and after for the man's name

Spiritr wrote:: they don't call it KFC in Japan just so you know クリスマスはケンタッキー And, a Happy New Year.... I know that I once had a Teriyaki Burger at a McDonald's in downtown Osaka....and, went to a Shakey's Pizza place in Fukuoka that gave us a pizza that was loaded with corn. (We asked for 'the works'. D'OH!!!) But...I did not even see a KFC while there. (But, it wasn't Christmas. So, I don't feel like I missed out.)

Teriyaki Burger! The General Burger! OMG....Now you know why US's McDonald sucks right? yea because they call it something different, something like...suburban style chicken....

Mister EZ wrote:: This section, regarding the "tall proud fifth", tells me that the guy who wrote the 'hints' spoke with Preiss...got some info....then, he guessed Darn, looks like you're right...we'll have to try and separate them out...

Spiritr wrote:: mountain? river? street? or....? Getting the hang of Google Translate now. So, the beginning of the entry for "Lane" is given as: "Lane used here is a proper noun. Speaking of proper nouns, it's a name, but what is the name?" (Then something resembling the stuff about rivers etc that Spiritr suggested.) Hard to know whether this is a hint or speculation though.

UnprovenFact wrote:: Maybe this has already been mentioned or explained. I don’t know. I have lately only been glossing over the posts… but… What is most interesting to me about these newly discovered translations of the verses is not so much the hints and explanations that have been added, it is the lines of the verses that have been removed - as if we don’t really need them. *although I do like the hints and explanations quite a bit* The pages posted are in a special addendum section of the Japanese edition that tells of ‘important lines’ from the verses. It also contains the full verses in the normal section of the book where the pictures are. I could be wrong but that’s what it looked like to me.

Is the translator listed? Can we find him and interview him? Ask him what he remembers?

how much are you willing to pay? I have 2 phone numbers here but it's....6am in Japan.... I was hoping to buy his recorded conversation with Byron I hope such tape still exists and all of the rights he got for this book.

Goldengate wrote:: Steph — you don’t need to pay, this has already been handled. Please be patient. Spirtr, please do not bother the original translator there is already been progress being made with this. Relationships have been forged, please respect that. I’ve shared a lot with this group that otherwise would have not been seen, so I ask you to trust that all will be released correctly and in full. The last thing we want to do is bombard these good people— that is a sure fire way to shut them down — and me down as well. Please extend me that courtesy or I may stop posting additional materials in regard to this edition and others. ....I was gonna say I won't. I fully understand how you think and what your concerns might be, and your efforts on disclosing this oversea treasure, remember when you told me to shut up I immediately stop translating, because I respect you as the owner of this thread and if my disturbance is starting to causing irritation or annoyance I deeply apologize and I will just sit back and wait for your good news.

you need to edit as well

Great job, Goldengate

GG has your contact mentioned any of their thoughts on the images? If you get the chance, maybe you can ask what their group makes of the symbols on the boarder of the dragon dress pleat in image one. Thanks in advance Jay

Mister EZ wrote:: Unknown: USRC Harriet Lane again transferred to the Navy on March 30, 1861, for service in the expedition sent to Charleston, South Carolina, to supply the Fort Sumter garrison after the outbreak of the American Civil War. She departed New York April 8 and arrived off Charleston April 11. I get something like: "...gave me the name of various things and it was apparent that it was not a tree. Of course, I cannot assert that it is a tree, and I cannot assume responsibility...but personally I think it is a tree..." ...on another attempt I got: "What is the fifth? Mr Preiss did not tell me easily, but when I gave names of various things from here on, I felt that it was not a tree. Of course, I cannot assert that it is a tree, so I cannot take responsibility even if I am. Personally, I am thinking that tree is good." Spiritr, could you take a look at this entry and see whether you think Preiss says it is, or isn't, a tree...? (At the very least, it sounds like he was evasive about it, which is perhaps significant in itself.) * * * * * The clue for Congress, like Octave and Lane, simply asserts that it's a noun. The idea of Lane as a noun is interesting. Re: Charleston, the only connection I've found is via the USRC Harriet Lane I don't know whether there might possibly be a mention in some local museum...? Haven't found anything for Montreal yet... As the translator points out, it might not be the name of a person, though it seems the most likely option to me. * * * * * "Between two arms extended / Below the bar that binds" is difficult to make out, though potentially interesting; I get something like: "This is a very difficult way to put out a hint, but arm (arm) is an arm at any angle. However, bar basically means - horizontal bar. And there are binds (ties)" - can't capture all of it.

"Step on nature / Cast in copper" has something like: "This part is to think of a leaf, and so on. What exactly means a leaf?" Perhaps the Oak Leaf Trail, or the statue of Leif the Discoverer in Juneau Park. (Being bronze, I guess it's largely copper.)

Spiritr wrote:: how much are you willing to pay? I have 2 phone numbers here but it's....6am in Japan.... I was hoping to buy his recorded conversation with Byron I hope such tape still exists and all of the rights he got for this book. or you could just try and solve it...its solvable...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: "Step on nature / Cast in copper" has something like: "This part is to think of a leaf, and so on. What exactly means a leaf?" Perhaps the Oak Leaf Trail, or the statue of Leif the Discoverer in Juneau Park. (Being bronze, I guess it's largely copper.) I dunno...seen two different interpretations, one that approaches the grand staircase in Lake Park from the North and one that approaches it from the South, through Juneau....could be either. But, Oak Leaf Trail goes through both Lake Park and Juneau (with its statue of Leif). Fairy secrets come in twos....?

you can start from two, maybe 3 spots (if you include the outskirts)...school gets you to lake park or lincoln park, depending on which way you go with the clues at the one juncture, but in lincoln park you find there isnt a large staircase (only the kids waterslide)...in lake park there are two, but he tells you where to go via foreshadowing when he takes you to mitchell mansion (i tried to get a tour, they ignored me lol)...but they have a grand staircase adorned with lions. and thats where you find the awning in the cape (also takes you to pabst mansion). you go around and climb the grand staircase twice (like a juggler juggles balls), which is the trick...otherwise you try to do what you do in another puzzle and its a trick. but also a hint. the fifth, in at least one sense is most definitely a musical fifth. in this puzzle.

Are the high posts made of wood or having to do with wood? Could a wooden sign containing three words qualify?

unless it's 3 signs = 3 posts if 3 words in one sign, that's still 1 post, no "s" Ok, here's my guess, this term " high posts " could be sports related, or referring to a position in occupation, or simply a wooden utility pole.

My guess is that it is idiomatic translation... "Post like a wooden post, but not a government post." The post in the clue need not be literally wooden, it's just an illustration of which meaning. Preiss would be trying to help with the language translation without giving away any clues.

ah, thanks. That tiny -s detail makes all the difference. The Secret is all about looking at the small details isn't it?

We know that the translator spoke to BP and garnered special hints for Japanese readers; genuine unreleased clues such as which phrases were quotations. I just ran the hint for "High Post" (sic) through Google Translate and got: "It is said that it is made out of wood". GG's Japanese contact who owns the book translated it as: "This post is wooden". I'm pretty sure we can take this clue literally.

Goldengate wrote:: From what I've seen, every translation method that's come back on verse 7 has concluded that the hint says the posts are wood. My friend in Japan was very busy with work this week but she promised a complete translation on the verse two hints today. Standby... Full translation of the hints is complete. I'm fixing the audio screwups now. The posts are wooden. 2 of the books came in as well, they are much smaller than I expected.

I'm only interested in the "big" one underneath....

A portion of the translation seems to advise readers that we should not necessarily be reading the verses line-for-line and attempting to decode them. Rather, we may need to read some lines together, and other lines may need to be separated to find the meaning. Also, instead of reading it as one poem, we need to think of the verses as cyphertext. But I will wait for the Official translation…

Official translation !?

Spiritr wrote:: Official translation !? I personally do not have the ability to translate Japanese into English, so I had to rely on a certain app to help me. I am hoping for a Human who is fluent in Japanese to reaffirm what I think it says... or show me where I have incorrectly "translated" the text with the app. Basically, I am just waiting for someone who knows more than I do to translate it.

Here is a full translation. hxxp://12treasures.com/finaltranslation.mp3

burnstyle wrote:: Here is a full translation. hxxp://12treasures.com/finaltranslation.mp3 Thank you burnstyle!

burnstyle wrote:: Here is a full translation. hxxp://12treasures.com/finaltranslation.mp3 Listening now. Thanks burnstyle.

I am simply stunned that a Japanese version was found after all of these years. Amazing! Not to mention burnstyle was able to order a couple and receive them! WOW!!! Hopefully, these new clues will breathe new life into some of the potential solves or maybe spark old ideas or maybe even new ones.

UnprovenFact wrote:: I personally do not have the ability to translate Japanese into English, so I had to rely on a certain app to help me. I am hoping for a Human who is fluent in Japanese to reaffirm what I think it says... or show me where I have incorrectly "translated" the text with the app. Basically, I am just waiting for someone who knows more than I do to translate it. Well, just keep this in mind, from BP to the translator, from the translator to the Japanese readers, and now the Japanese reader translate it back to English, a lost in transcriptions is guaranteed, in fact huge. Those extra contents were there to give Japanese readers a better understanding in American English so they can have a better reading experience. So they could get a chance to play this wheelchair hunt with a USA/Canada map in Japan. To the N.America readers, it's a bonus source of information. If used correctly, it will better direct us, but it should NOT be taken as the "OFFICIAL" interpretation. The N.America book is always the only official source of info contains what's needed for the treasures.

Just a couple of notes. The process that lead to this was a team effort between goldengate, myself and three other people (who I didnt ask permission to name, so I wont) I hope that this shows everyone what team work can accomplish, as opposed to just bitching at each other about how everyone is wrong. Secondly, I bought about 15 of the different versions of the Japanese translation. There are two different Japanese books. If for some reason the text is different I will have the second one translated as well. Because of the mass purchase, japanese sellers are starting to realize there is something special with this book. The price has gone from about $5-$10 to $100-$200 each. Be careful if you plan on buying the book. Sellers are now putting the book on a CD, and selling the CD for $100. They DO NOT make it obvious this is what they are doing. So go through the description carefully. I do not need 15 copies, I'm going to give most of them away. Some randomly, but most to people who have been active and helpful in the community, and who do not already have a book.

Unknown: I'm going to give most of them away. I would like one of these books.

Unknown: For me, one of the most interesting points was the fact that there seems to be a numerical match between the verse and images.. I think he meant the numbers in the Images. As we know by now, they are the easiest and surest way to KNOW which city goes with which Image. And knowing which cities contain treasure is the critical first step to solving the puzzle. Step 1A (Cleveland, New Orleans, San Francisco, Houston, Chicago, and Charleston).

Egbert wrote:: I think you've almost got it. The person who Burnstyle had on audio translating this gave a long explanation that it would involve game playing with words. So, Ch.........ickens Charles Dickens How does this go back to "the natives still speak"? His trips to the US? New York?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: chicken leads you to egg, which leads you to omelet, which leads you to Hamlet, which has a lot of hard words in it. So we should be looking in Denmark*. You don't know what you are talking about. Omelette obviously leads you to Othello, which was a game popular in the 80's that uses black and white circles, which leads you to Michael Jackson and Neverland Ranch, which takes you to Highway 101 (ace is high) and back to San Francisco. It's simple, I don't see why you can't understand that!!! Full explanation on the next podcast.

Madness

Unknown: Full explanation on the next podcast. Will it be broadcast in Japanese?

milesstandish wrote:: I know this theory is not new but could the Verse 10 clue "start with chicken" be a confirmer that "him of Hard words" refers to Dickens? Chicken - Dickens Hard words - Hard Times (broken into 3 books) “Play with the words...Start with chicken” Chicken, chicken, bo-bicken, banana fanna, fo-ficken. Fee, fie, bo-bicken —-CHICKEN! Naw I still get “chicken”

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Will it be broadcast in Japanese?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I'm not sure we have much of anything until we find a logical connection between Charles Dickens, "He of Hard word", and the puzzle. Otherwise, we can just Cornell the clue and say chicken leads you to egg, which leads you to omelet, which leads you to Hamlet, which has a lot of hard words in it. So we should be looking in Denmark*. *There are 15 to choose from in North America. Denmark....Wisconsin....?

How does Dickens get you to Gershwin?

burnstyle~ How is the print quality of the colored image pages? Compare to N.America 1st edition.

That's a question I hope to answer today if burnstyle doesn't beat me to it.

Spiritr wrote:: burnstyle~ How is the print quality of the colored image pages? Compare to N.America 1st edition. It's better and worse. The quality of the actual printing seems better. The American version images are comprised of small colors dots that make up the whole image. Japanese seems much tighter and richer than that. The downside is they are a bit darker and much smaller. I'm going to scan them soon. I'm waiting for the jpop covers to come in. I have more of those so I dont mind destroying one.

Here are two scans created under identical conditions (600dpi). On the left is the original American edition; on the right is the Japanese edition. They have equally lousy quality, and appear to use the same printing technique. Due to the size difference, the original is still a little better than the Japanese.

It was the best of clues. It was the worst of clues. A tale of two cities was part of a 3 volume set. Bundled with a few other stories.

burnstyle wrote:: It's better and worse. The quality of the actual printing seems better. The American version images are comprised of small colors dots that make up the whole image. Japanese seems much tighter and richer than that. The downside is they are a bit darker and much smaller. I'm going to scan them soon. I'm waiting for the jpop covers to come in. I have more of those so I dont mind destroying one. Looks like you've beaten me to it, I was only able to cop 2 copies of the "normal" edition($2&$8), and 1 copy of "J-pop" from Taiwan, which is a little expensive($30)but it's brand new and sealed, it should be here sometimes this week.

Spiritr wrote:: Looks like you've beaten me to it, I was only able to cop 2 copies of the "normal" edition($2&$8), and 1 copy of "J-pop" from Taiwan, which is a little expensive($30)but it's brand new and sealed, it should be here sometimes this week. Were they imported or originally sold in Taiwan? Either way two of mine are new and contain a bunch of inserts. We need to compare these and see if anything is different. Can I convince you to destroy one and scan it, or figure out a way to scan it without destroying it?

Wouldn't it be funny if the answers to the riddles are written on a piece of paper rolled up inside the binding, and the first person to destroy their copy wins all the remaining prizes? That would be funny.

inserts? what kind of insert? it's a import, so it's still the original "Jpop", I found it in a Japanese online flea market, the listing was from Taiwan, so I just bought it, I made a phone call to the seller to confirm it's the same book. He send me pictures of the front and back, that's how I know the front is image 5, back is image 2. The book is sealed, brand new, I'll be the first one to open it of course. As far as scanning it...I think you'll do it anyway, LOL. Right? And something I'm curious, the 1st casque was already discovered before 12/7/1983 right? I wonder if that's the reason image 5 was used as the cover, if so, you think it'll be mentioned in the content?

Egbert wrote:: I think you've almost got it. The person who Burnstyle had on audio translating this gave a long explanation that it would involve game playing with words. So, Ch.........ickens Charles Dickens thats not the primary ref. theres a hint at coit tower about the primary ref

forest_blight wrote:: Here are two scans created under identical conditions (600dpi). On the left is the original American edition; on the right is the Japanese edition. They have equally lousy quality, and appear to use the same printing technique. Due to the size difference, the original is still a little better than the Japanese. In the Japanese book, the hidden images in the 'sky' are much more visible. https://imgur.com/a/EKoBfNu

karleen -- that's probably due to things such as a different printing press, process, application of inks, choice of inks, etc. To me, it seems like the turrets/ building is also a darker blue....which would also occur because of the differences. Either way, I'm guessing you think those areas depict specific 'things', instead of them just being additional representations of clouds...? (Second from the right looks like an ostrich to me....but...that would be silly, so it can't be that. . I'd rather hear your take on those areas....)

Mister EZ wrote:: karleen (Second from the right looks like an ostrich to me....but...that would be silly, so it can't be that. . I'd rather hear your take on those areas....) EZ - I have so much to say about it and I will in my next video (which is taking a really long time to finish!)

It's probably already been discussed, but I missed it... But the verse 8 clue about "The beating of the world", said to look in the dictionary at the word "drum" and you would find a name nearby that was associated with "Drum". I know that the line in verse 8 is referring to Kenwood Blvd ... so I Googled on Kenwood Drum. Lo and behold, up pops the name Kenwood Dennard! Wikipedia gives his "drum beating" info, and he was born in NYC in 1956, which includes the correct years for BP to have known about him and include him in this reference. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kenwood_Dennard We came up with the right street, but did not actually get the correct reference before...

No way! Good idea AP!!

Idk about that one he would have only just started his career when the book came out. The wiki link said he was in school until 1976 giving him only 3 or so years to build a career before BP started the book.

Seems Kenwood was a prodigy! More info... hxxp://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Ke ... nnard.html

animal painter wrote:: Seems Kenwood was a prodigy! More info... hxxp://www.drummerworld.com/drummers/Ke ... nnard.html Great job on this!

Kenwood is a Japanese company, I would think if a person in Japan looked up Drum in the phone book yellow pages (before internet) the Kenwood corporation would have had a listing. Especially back in its hay day when it was one of the front runners in the music/electronics field.

How about Dylan?

BP was pretty clear that you need to find a person by looking near the entry for "drum" in a dictionary, like Drummond . But TBH these Japanese "hints" are even more difficult than the original verses.

BP suggested the word "drum" for "as you walk the beating of the world" to find the name of a famous/important person and I presume have that be in connection with a path or roadname in MKE. Could we be looking at some synonym options? How close is the Japanese translation for Thesarus to Dictionary or Encyclopedia? Could drum could be Cooper, a barrel crafter? Could drum be a hint for another language word like the German Trommel, or tambour, or Tom (like tom-tom, a kind of drum). Could we be looking for a street that is similar in name to a well known drummer? Remember this is the German puzzle, so Led Zepplin for example would give us John Bonham. How about Burnham street? Initially I had thought that verse line was a good connect for Wells or even W Wi streets...this is some next level cryptography or something...

What Burnstyle's Japanese interpreter says is: "Beating" is referring to a drum, and the spelling of drum is: "drum". The hint is that you need to find the name of a person...Find the word "drum" in an English dictionary, and then look somewhere around the word "drum" and you will find the name of the person...it sounds like you're going to have to work for it.

Yeah. He said we'll have to work hard for it. What is the deal with using the word "world"? Is it suppose to be a build in hint like "around the world" means "around the word"?

If BP was not referring to Kenwood Dennard the drummer, he could have been referring to a Kenwood drum table. (I have not yet found out why it is called by that name.) It's neither here nor there...because the clue did mean to steer us to Kenwood Blvd, which it did.

Drumpf!

I have the Japanese book in my hand, and I don’t need google for translation (because it’s inaccurate and misleading) “Drum” is a keyword you search or looking up with a “big dictionary” But the “key” is what goes before or after “Drum” meaning.....something like “Ddrum” or “Drumm” and it’s a name or someone

ive already explained the whole of this verse, but most specifically the first half, starting from the school. (downer college) he uses that clue to refer to several streets. downer, kenwood, wells.

Anyone in the SF bay area have the original 1982 book?

finally got a chance to find out why my credit card was charged with so many unknown items from Japan, my sneaker bot never stop working.... should I stop it?

Spiritr wrote:: finally got a chance to find out why my credit card was charged with so many unknown items from Japan, my sneaker bot never stop working.... should I stop it? Na....let it keep going, eating into your Big Mac fund....

should I list it on ebay and test the water?

Spiritr wrote:: should I list it on ebay and test the water? The Big Mac? Absolutely!

Holy mackerel. I just finished listening to the audio last night and I was sitting on the edge of my seat the entire time. I am blown away. I am completely shocked BP would give the Japanese translator so much information. Some hypotheses have been confirmed, and some destroyed! Is there a chance you guys will be posting scans of any of these pages? I would like to show them to some native Japanese speakers I know to get a flew clarifications.

JoshCornell wrote:: ive already explained the whole of this verse, but most specifically the first half, starting from the school. (downer college) he uses that clue to refer to several streets. downer, kenwood, wells. Thanks I will give it a study. Thanks for your generosity with clues.

Spiritr wrote:: finally got a chance to find out why my credit card was charged with so many unknown items from Japan, my sneaker bot never stop working.... should I stop it? Hey Spiritr! Does that mean you have extra copies of the book? Would you be interested in selling me a copy?

yea I have 7 copies, gave one away already I'll think about it

[quote="WhiteRabbit"] V5 “Lane” – When you translate this directly it refers to a small road, but Lane in this context is a proper noun. Is it a name of a mountain/river/town or…? (I’m guessing it’s not one of these.) Using the new hints from the Japanese book I came up with this for verse 5 "Lane". Laurentian Lanes has been in Montreal since 1959 and the address is Two Twenty Two Montee de Liesse. The colors and pattern on the outside of the building are similar to the person's hat in image 9. It's right next to the Montreal International Airport so Preiss would have seen it. Coincidence that it is a pronoun of Lane and has an address of Two Twenty Two? Is it our starting point? Is it referring to the Laurentian Mountains, the Laurentian River, or....Laurentian Lanes.

Spiritr wrote:: yea I have 7 copies, gave one away already I'll think about it Awesome! Let me know! Seriously! Thanks a bunch!

Forrest wrote:: Holy mackerel. I just finished listening to the audio last night and I was sitting on the edge of my seat the entire time. I am blown away. I am completely shocked BP would give the Japanese translator so much information. Some hypotheses have been confirmed, and some destroyed! Is there a chance you guys will be posting scans of any of these pages? I would like to show them to some native Japanese speakers I know to get a flew clarifications. What audio? I'd love to heart it as well if it's BP discussing the hunt.

Haarstick wrote:: What audio? I'd love to heart it as well if it's BP discussing the hunt. hxxp://12treasures.com/finaltranslation.mp3

atdreamer2112 wrote:: Awesome! Let me know! Seriously! Thanks a bunch! If you want to see the book, Goldengate uploads a lot of pictures, you can pm Goldengate for those scans also I believe there's a full scan of the book on Facebook, I'm not sure. You can try searching for it, I can't because I don't have FB account.

Spiritr wrote:: yea I have 7 copies, gave one away already I'll think about it Do you have a copy that damaged? I want to tear one apart and scan then share it... but all my copies are mint.

same here. 5 very mint, 1 brand new. come on you have 15 of them.

Scan sounds so old school with the quality of cameras these days. Why not just snap a picture of it?

do you understand why burnstyle ask for tearing down the book for a scan? because flatten the page can avoid wavey and result in much better quality but that's not the main reason, time. it save a LOT of time. 230 pages my friend, saying it was easy, doing it is something else.

Spiritr wrote:: same here. 5 very mint, 1 brand new. come on you have 15 of them. Yeah. Your right lol. I'll get it done. More will pop up over time.

I suggest doing it in google books, much easier for people to OCR and save you time on converting as well.

Just curious, has anyone already reached out to Bantam Books to ask if there were any other foreign language editions of "The Secret"?

Goldengate wrote:: For me, one of the most interesting points was the fact that there seems to be a numerical match between the verse and images... I'll have to listen to that portion again and break out the book, but that's what it seemed like he was getting at. Thank you Burnstyle! I spent a while trying to figure out if there was a connection between the numbers used in the verse and the images, and couldn't find any. Most of the verses have numbers in them and they vary in format but I couldn't find a correlation. I also tried other methods like adding up the numbers or seeing if the numbers matched things in the images - like the numbers of fingers (this was pretty interesting as the fingers are featured in quite a few of the images and are heavily manipulated). I also considered/experimented with matching the numbers in some way to the months of the image (as opposed to just the image #). It would make sense if the birth flower/jewel/clock hints were a method of connection the verse to the image, since otherwise they seem somewhat superfluous to the hunt. It could be something like encoding the zip codes in the verses instead of the latitude, or some other city identifier. There must be some way of matching the two...

You did all the above and find NO correlation? That mean you did it wrong

Let me show you what is a “identifier” example Based on the 2 found location Chicago ; 6+6+5=17; 1+7= 8 Cleveland ; 4+4+1+8=17 ; 1+7= 8

Spiritr wrote:: Let me show you what is a “identifier” example Based on the 2 found location Chicago ; 6+6+5=17; 1+7= 8 Cleveland ; 4+4+1+8=17 ; 1+7= 8 how does numerology which results in the same answer give you different results?

different result ? did I just showed how the result were the same?

Spiritr wrote:: different result ? did I just showed how the result were the same? Spiritr wrote:: Let me show you what is a “identifier” example Based on the 2 found location Chicago ; 6+6+5= 17 ; 1+7= 8 Cleveland ; 4+4+1+8= 17 ; 1+7= 8 Results of 17 and 8 for both are not different....how does that lead to matching up verse and image for the other puzzles? And, where'd you get the first set of numbers from...6, 6, 5 and 4, 4, 1, 8?

In response to the guy's question I showed him the correct way to find correlations , using simple math. in order to understand how to match the verses and images, these basic math skills are reqired those are the results from the 2 finds. 60605 and 44108 you don't know what these numbers are?

Spiritr wrote:: In response to the guy's question I showed him the correct way to find correlations , using simple math. in order to understand how to match the verses and images, these basic math skills are reqired those are the results from the 2 finds. 60605 and 44108 you don't know what these numbers are? Stop trying to be purposefully facetious, obtuse and cryptic... That correlation is convenient, when you know where the cask is buried....and, may not hold true for the other puzzles. Grant park is actually covered by multiple zip codes, with 60605 being the Congress Plaza area. Grant Park's 'official' zip code listed off of Columbus Ave is 60601, on the north end of the park....with Chicago itself having a gazillion zip codes. The same is true for Cleveland...multiple zip codes. When nobody knew where any of the casques were, finding that as a 'correlation' was virtually impossible, making it not viable as a means to solve any of these puzzles. So now, show how that works for the other puzzles, for casque that haven't been found....show the exact , correct zip code that leads to the park or general area where a casque is buried for each, using your correlation...

Unknown: Grant park is actually covered by multiple zip codes Unknown: So now, show how that works for the other puzzles, for casque that haven't been found....show the exact do you know how the "Posts" work? yea, but only one contains the actual casque. you mean just tell you all the postal codes ? eventually I will....but not right now.

Spiritr wrote:: do you know how the "Posts" work? yea, but only one contains the actual casque. you mean just tell you all the postal codes ? eventually I will....but not right now. Once again, you edited your post. You originally wrote , at the end, 'I tried'. So once again, your edited response is convenient. 'I'm not telling, right now.' Na....you haven't tried. Do it for....Boston. Or, New Orleans.....New York/Brooklyn.....GGP.....etc.....good luck.... (This is my edit.)

Spiritr wrote:: fine, try with 02141 And, here we go with spiritr posting....then immediately deleting his post....again. Sorry buddy, but, I caught it: Na....your other examples used two steps. That's not a correlation that matches those other examples.

LOL, because I am lazy and I really don't like writing essays. so until I'm done with my work and everything and I have more time, I will.

Spiritr wrote:: LOL, because I am lazy and I really don't like writing essays. "fine, try with 02141" isn't an essay.....it's three words followed by a zip code. And, that zip code leads across the river into East Cambridge....with nothing else pointing to or verifying anything in that general area as a possibility. Try New Orleans.....look up Armstrong Park....Jackson Square.....Lafayette Square....Duncan Plaza.... Good luck.

yea, because for the questions that follows, I will need to write a very long paragraph which I'm trying to avoid that's why I deleted it.

Spiritr wrote:: yea, because for the questions that follows, I will need to write a very long paragraph which I'm trying to avoid that's why I deleted it. Heh.....extremely convenient. So, while you're trying to figure out how to respond, gnaw on this: The USPS changes Zip Codes, over time, as they draw new postal boundaries based on population. Any location you look at might have had a different Zip Code, back in '82. https://youtu.be/1eeHXCxbyn8

Unknown: The USPS changes Zip Codes, over time, as they draw new postal boundaries based on population. While this is true, it really isn't that much of a problem if you are using Zip Codes to simply narrow down the search grid. In large cities like Chicago, New York, and San Francisco, if this methodology could be shown to work, it would actually be extremely helpful in finding the park (Step 3) since urban zip code areas are relatively small due to population density. And even if they change slightly over time, it's easy enough to find the boundaries as they existed in 1982, although I don't think we even need that level of precision for now. With regard to the park, close enough is close enough.

Unknown: What if they are not all in parks? This is akin to asking what if they are not in the cities that we have already identified as being likely. With all due respect, the time to abandon a theory is when you find compelling evidence that the theory is no longer is valid. And for now, the best evidence we have is that Preiss buried these things in easily identifiable, easily accessible public spaces i.e. parks. This holds true for the two found casques and for most of the places we seem to think he is directing us to in other cities (Hermann Park, Lake Park, Golden Gate Park [or Leigon of Honor et. al.], Fort Raleigh, etc.). About the only place that doesn't seem to fit the narrative is FoY in St. Augustine, and I'll be willing to change my stance immediately if/when anybody finds anything inside those walls, or in a place that's not a park.

the truth is, we know a little, very little, from his daughters, daddy told them there's one in NY. and...someone claimed BP replied to his/her email saying there is one in Houston. and from multiple interviews we know there's 1, or at least 1 in Canada. so that leaves us at least 9 states and cities . History has proven, fully understanding the correct meaning of the ciphers and images is unnecessary

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: About the only place that doesn't seem to fit the narrative is FoY in St. Augustine, and I'll be willing to change my stance immediately if/when anybody finds anything inside those walls, or in a place that's not a park. Honestly I'm surprised no one has looked at Davenport park. It's only a couple blocks away.

Unknown: I was only curious if your theory will hold true. That makes two of us. I reevaluate my theory with each new credible piece of information, including but not limited to empty holes. I think this is the way the puzzle was meant to be solved, with the emphasis on credible evidence, and successful digs.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: While this is true, it really isn't that much of a problem if you are using Zip Codes to simply narrow down the search grid. In large cities like Chicago, New York, and San Francisco, if this methodology could be shown to work, it would actually be extremely helpful in finding the park (Step 3) since urban zip code areas are relatively small due to population density. And even if they change slightly over time, it's easy enough to find the boundaries as they existed in 1982, although I don't think we even need that level of precision for now. With regard to the park, close enough is close enough. Yup, it would have been cool. And honestly, I was hopeful, until I saw that this method wasn't actually viable, because it doesn't seem to work with existing (or older) zips as confirmation of general locations or parks, across all of the puzzles. But....I'm with you. Are additional, precise, confirmers needed at this point, for general areas or possible parks? (I don't think so, in my opinion.) The good news is, because it doesn't seem to work, Montreal, WI with zip code = 54525, is still in play. ;-]

Unknown: I'm surprised no one has looked at Davenport park. How do you know? The fact is that unless someone is caught digging, or is sloppy about the holes they make, or announces their intentions or exploits, we really don't know what areas are being explored. In St. Augustine, any of the other casque cities, or any part of the 9.4 million square miles that make up North America.

burnstyle wrote:: Honestly I'm surprised no one has looked at Davenport park. It's only a couple blocks away. Davenport Park W San Carlos Ave, St Augustine, FL 32084 3+2+8+4=17..... Heeeey.......hang on just a gol-darned-minute!

Honestly I'm surprised no one has looked at Davenport park. It's only a couple blocks away.[/quote] You know as well as I do, that place has changed a lot over the years. The carousel wasn't there then, neither was the fence. Parking lot is paved over now. Playground was redesigned. Now with the round-a-bout being put in, not sure how that is going to effect the park.

karleen wrote:: I think riddle is different from a rhyme. I think this hint is almost as difficult as the line, itself. In the link Karleen posted back on p.17 or 18 it mentions the first use of "why did the chicken cross the road" was in the Knickerbocker publication in New York in the 19th century. (sorry, the board wouldn't let me attach a screenshot). I'm not sure if this is what Karleen was trying to point to in the link, but it sure is an interesting piece of chicken trivia, lol.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: How do you know? . The park had a library built on top of it in 1985. All of the historical records/images/plans... everything about the park is housed in the historical society. No one ever opens that file.

Unknown: No one ever opens that file. I'm not surprised. My guess is that very few people are actually going to the trouble of doing research "on site", preferring the ease and convenience of Google and other internet tools. Obviously, these tools have their limitations, especially for a puzzle that Preiss intended to be resolved by getting people into the parks and walking around. But unless you happen to live in a casque city (or know someone who does), or are willing to travel, "armchairing", despite its limitations, is the only practical thing to do.

I've looked into the plan and the park's surrounding, I don't think anything was buried there, because it lacks one very important element, "pattern".

Does anyone know if the verses were numbered in the book? Was curious how they were assigned their #s.

MERLIN wrote:: Does anyone know if the verses were numbered in the book? Was curious how they were assigned their #s. They weren't numbered It's the order they appeared on the pages, left to right, top to bottom, one page after another. Same with the images. The order they appeared in the book. So, the last verse is verse 12, for example....etc. (just a way for everybody to keep track of what's being referenced.)

Thanks EZ

Goldengate wrote:: Surprised there hasn't been spirited discussion about this part of the translation. I think it's possibly one of the most critical takeaways in terms of confirming or denying commonly held beliefs about verse to image pairings. It could confirm what we believe... or be a complete game changer. Moving this conversation from verse 5 to here... I've spent some time playing around with them. Haven't made any solid connection. There are a total of 39 numbers in the 12 verses; 29 cardinal numbers (1, 2, 3,..) & 10 ordinal numbers (1st, 2nd, 3rd,...). The ordinal numbers are spelled out in the verses though. I started with just using the cardinal numbers. Then I broke apart the multi-digit numbers into there basic form, i.e. 1913 to 1, 9, 1, 3, etc... Now I was only looking at single digit numbers 0-9. I did find a bit of a coincidence, but again, couldn't find a link to anything: The number 0 is used 6 times and the number 6 is used 0 times. The number 1 is used 8 times and the number 8 is used 1 time. The number 3 is used 9 times and the number 9 is used 3 times. The number 2 is used 12 times. Numbers 4, 5, & 7... nothing of note. I've looked at trying to find other numbers in the images, hands on the clocks (if there were any), longitude/latitude numbers,... Yet just another puzzle within the puzzle. Not sure if we are supposed to literally combine all of the numbers from all of the verses at once, then find the matching images or if the corresponding verse has a number / numbers that you will find in the image. Verse 9 has no cardinal numbers only the ordinal number "first." Curious to know what work others have done regarding this clue.

Unknown: Curious to know what work others have done regarding this clue. Obviously the numbers in the Images are more compelling, and would be much more helpful to someone who was trying to solve this puzzle (or the first few steps) remotely. Having said that, if you can get to Houston, then 982 would be very compelling evidence that you were in the right place, in the same way that 92 would help you confirm Milwaukee, and 1913 would help you confirm Charleston. Unfortunately, the clue set, such as it is, pretty much disappears after those three examples, at least as far as I've been able to determine, and that's usually a big red flag for me.

Unknown: so it's possible this could be either a clarifier or game changer for at least a couple cities. Sure, that's always possible (at least, until all the remaining casques are dug up out of the ground). And it could be nothing new at all. Just more information that confirms what most of us already know, or should. I'll consider the former when someone (myself included) finds some connection that is easier and more logical than the connections that have already been made. To date, and excepting the three examples I stated previously, I see no evidence that those connections exist beyond what Preiss might have said to a translator. And unfortunately, I am all too familiar with the dangers of taking anything he might have said literally. Especially as I become more and more convinced that we have everything we need to solve these puzzles already. And that Preiss, above all, was convinced of that as well.

Scrappy929 wrote:: Moving this conversation from verse 5 to here... I've spent some time playing around with them. Haven't made any solid connection. There are a total of 39 numbers in the 12 verses; 29 cardinal numbers (1, 2, 3,..) & 10 ordinal numbers (1st, 2nd, 3rd,...). The ordinal numbers are spelled out in the verses though. I started with just using the cardinal numbers. Then I broke apart the multi-digit numbers into there basic form, i.e. 1913 to 1, 9, 1, 3, etc... Now I was only looking at single digit numbers 0-9. I did find a bit of a coincidence, but again, couldn't find a link to anything: The number 0 is used 6 times and the number 6 is used 0 times. The number 1 is used 8 times and the number 8 is used 1 time. The number 3 is used 9 times and the number 9 is used 3 times. The number 2 is used 12 times. Numbers 4, 5, & 7... nothing of note. I've looked at trying to find other numbers in the images, hands on the clocks (if there were any), longitude/latitude numbers,... Yet just another puzzle within the puzzle. Not sure if we are supposed to literally combine all of the numbers from all of the verses at once, then find the matching images or if the corresponding verse has a number / numbers that you will find in the image. Verse 9 has no cardinal numbers only the ordinal number "first." Curious to know what work others have done regarding this clue. see image vs pairings thread i rocked these all out pretty much.

“Him of Hard words” – you would think it’s referring to a writer, but it’s difficult to find out who. When I asked Mr Preiss, he answered me with a riddle. “In order to arrive at this person, you must play with words, and the start is chicken.” I theorized earlier in the Verse 10 thread that this line referred to Patrick Henry. This may give some support to the theory. patrick HEN ry viewtopic.php?f=32&t=728&p=138664&hilit=henry#p138664

Start chicken spring chicken Young

maltedfalcon wrote:: Start chicken spring chicken Young Young who?

gManTexas wrote:: “Him of Hard words” – you would think it’s referring to a writer, but it’s difficult to find out who. When I asked Mr Preiss, he answered me with a riddle. “In order to arrive at this person, you must play with words, and the start is chicken.” I theorized earlier in the Verse 10 thread that this line referred to Patrick Henry. This may give some support to the theory. patrick HEN ry viewtopic.php?f=32&t=728&p=138664&hilit=henry#p138664 Hamilton wrote to Rufus King in Federal Edition vol III about hard labor. Rufus Thomas wrote a song in 1970 "Do The Funky Chicken" Would that be your chicken connection?

gqchu wrote:: Hamilton wrote to Rufus King in Federal Edition vol III about hard labor. Rufus Thomas wrote a song in 1970 "Do The Funky Chicken" Would that be your chicken connection? While that is comedic gold, sadly no. Patrick Henry: Life, Correspondence, and Speeches (3 Volumes) by William Wirt Henry Patrick Henry McCarren is the connection to Brooklyn. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_H._McCarren

gManTexas wrote:: While that is comedic gold, sadly no. Some comedians are more successful than others. Happy chicken hunting

gManTexas wrote:: Some comedians are more successful than others. “ In order to arrive at this person... " twisting and distorting the meaning of a foreign language is already a joke to begin with.

There is a post here where this is discussed: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7258&p=145310&hilit=charles+dickens#p145310 Ch arles D icken s wrote Hard Times consisting of 3 books. However, I am not sure if anyone has related anything in NYC to Charles Dickens. Expert key-searchers for NYC may have more info on this.

I don't see Dickens as being a good fit at all.

gManTexas wrote:: I don't see Dickens as being a good fit at all. I can't speak to whether it is or isn't. I was just bringing the reference forward in case someone missed it before or might find it useful.

the answer for this riddle of the hints in the Japanese book for verse 10 is "curry chicken"

gManTexas wrote:: I don't see Dickens as being a good fit at all. Dickens is not Hard enough I guess...LOL

Spiritr wrote:: Dickens is not Hard enough I guess...LOL

Spiritr wrote:: the answer for this riddle of the hints in the Japanese book for verse 10 is "curry chicken" Zanizbar curry and Rufus' chicken https://www.savoryspiceshop.com/zanzibar-curry-powder

no, wrong spice ok, to be more specific, and to correct some of the incorrect theories above, the Japanese hints still have to applying back to the English Verse, please make sure you understand everything, not just one word or one single line. and of the mp3 that burnstyle uploaded, the guy actually skipped a lot of words as if he's trying give out the shortest interpretation possible by speaking it out. He's absolutely accurate verbally, but not entirely correct on certain word or phrase written in hiragana (the entire book was basically written in hiragana, maybe because of most English words of the book really don't have a true Japanese meaning back in the 80's I guess). Nowadays, most modern Japanese will use kanji and katakana to replace those words and for much easier reading. Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols From this 1 line, he is not a writer, I guess. Then whoever it is, will be a big problem. For my query, Mr. Preiss answered this riddle. In order to get who this person is at last a wordplay is needed, starting word is chicken, that's exactly how they say it. I have both the 5/10 edition and 12/31 edition of the book I'm fluent in Japanese, and I am ATA certified in both traditional and simplified Chinese, Nihongo, and Hangul for anyone who doubt my professionality, pm me and I'll email you my certs along with my rates for side jobs.

Spiritr wrote:: no, wrong spice ok, to be more specific, and to correct some of the incorrect theories above, the Japanese hints still have to applying back to the English Verse, please make sure you understand everything, not just one word or one single line. Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols From this 1 line, he is not a writer, I guess. Then whoever it is, will be a big problem. For my query, Mr. Preiss answered this riddle. In order to get who this person is at last a wordplay is needed, starting word is chicken, that's exactly how they say it. I have both the 5/10 edition and 12/31 edition of the book I'm fluent in Japanese, and I am ATA certified in both traditional and simplified Chinese, Nihongo, and Hangul for anyone who doubt my professionality, pm me and I'll email you my certs along with my rates for side jobs. Spiritr, I completely believe you and your credentials, no proof necessary. You figured out how to put books from Japan in your hand quicker than some TV show put boots on the ground... and I honestly, genuinely, mean no disrespect to anyone on this forum

Thank you for the kind words, but I actually bought these books very late, Burnstyle was way better than me on this matter. and Amazon pissed me off to a point that left me no choice but to "buy-out" the rest in sites not accessible with USA IPs.

gqchu wrote:: Some comedians are more successful than others. Happy chicken hunting Henny Youngman for the win, but I don't think this is who it is.

karleen wrote:: Henny Youngman for the win, but I don't think this is who it is. LOL! Perfect. You do know that he is in the Field Guide under the Joke Fiend.

gManTexas wrote:: LOL! Perfect. You do know that he is in the Field Guide under the Joke Fiend. Yep!

Spiritr wow that's impressive that you know Japanese. It's good to know the collective iq on here isn't too bad. I often wonder if some of the people that are critical of people (not ideas) on this site are posting from juvenile detention centers. Cheers to you. Thanks for some of your thoughts on this. It really settles a few of the Japan questions.

whats it say on the chicago painting scrawled across it?, that would seem to cover up potential clues lol.

To continue where I left off yesterday, for 100% accuracy translation of the last line. There are many different ways to translate it, because it's somewhat riddleish as well...in Japanese. I'll demonstrate and show you all the meaning of that specific line by putting a / between every word or phrase possible here: この/人物に/たど/りつく/ために/ことば/遊びを/しなさい, スタートは/chicken/です, との/ことでした. word per word verbally of this line would be: kono jinbutsu ni tadoritsuku tame ni kotoba asobimo shinasai, sutatowa chicken desu, tono koto deshita what's tricky about this line is,1 kanji-" 人物 ", 1 katakana- " 遊 ", and the rest are all in hiragana, which is very smart especially when he's trying to play this game with the words. to help better understand, I'll use the word " China " " 中国 (kanji)" as example, it's a name of a country, but if you de-caplitaze the C, " china " " チャイナ (hiragana)" will translate to porcelain or ceramic. And the translator basically de-caps everything. But one thing is for certain, from the previous line, Mr.Preiss told him the answer for the riddle already, so he used 遊びをしなさい at the end, it's like saying " let's play a game " and he's the host of the game kinda tone. スタートはchickenです is also tricky, the phrase " スタート " is the pronunciation of the English word "Start" , To be honest, nobody talks like that, pronunciation were mainly uses for kids in pre-school in Japan. And pay attention to this " ー ", because it's a pronunciation, instead of a solid word, it could be a hyphen, for anyone who don't know what I'm talking about, just take a look at the last line of page 244 of the Japanese book. If this " ー " was a hyphen, then that's a complete different word we're looking at here, it's " スタ トは " meaning " The status is " , so to make sure my translation was correct, I have no choice but follow the book and went with " starts with " the final section of this line is " とのことでした " , verbally speaking, the meaning is " that's exactly how they say it " , it can easily be interpreted as " it's exactly what it is " , but this " との " actually have a meaning if you seperate it from the whole line, the " の " means " 's ", but this " と ", can be used as a pronoun, like "him" or "her", but more precise, a very " Noble " person. This " と " can also be used as a adjective as well, it could mean " Statue ", or anything made out of rocks. And that's my 100% accurate translation of that last line.

clever stuff. sounds right to me. i wonder if there is a chinese version or french version, considering this and that at least two puzzles are located in areas where people speak french.

oh right, I've never seen people talks about this, what language do people speaks in Montreal....

Spiritr wrote:: oh right, I've never seen people talks about this, what language do people speaks in Montreal.... They speak French and English (with a French-Canadian accent).

Spiritr wrote:: oh right, I've never seen people talks about this, what language do people speaks in Montreal.... everyone speaks english, but most people speak french in quebec generally. mtl has a lot of transplants so there are a lot of people who only speak english.

I have a question for people that happen to own the Japanese edition. Would you be able to share the images that are in the japanese version that are not in the english version ? I saw pictures like these : https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/AnsAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1ekAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg and wondered if there were more in the book ?

notice how those pages have no page numbers?

Spiritr wrote:: notice how those pages have no page numbers? Other than stating the obvious....were you trying to make an intelligent point. You're cryptic riddles are getting old.

.....sorry, no cryptic riddles, I was just pointing out the obvious. if I were to make a cryptic comment, I'll use italic and Uppercase letters, that's how I usually do it..

Spiritr wrote:: .....sorry, no cryptic riddles, I was just pointing out the obvious. if I were to make a cryptic comment, I'll use italic and Uppercase letters, that's how I usually do it.. Why don't you just answer Mariska's original question?

Fenix wrote:: I can try to scan them when I have time. I believe Burnstyle may already be working on this though. That would be amazing ! Thank you so much .

Burnstyle is an artist....

Awesome picture. (Shame there isn't an actual 'extra clue' button for the puzzles...)

ok, wow, because I don't have a facebook account, can someone give more details of this drawing? Anything helps, Thanks~

as in sarcasm? Please excuse my curiosity but I don't get it.....what do you mean by It's satire?

Spiritr wrote:: as in sarcasm? Please excuse my curiosity but I don't get it.....what do you mean by It's satire? It is a joke. Not real. Fake. Humorous. Poking fun at the hunt. Lampooning. Like saying there is a casque buried in the basement of the Alamo.

I also didnt draw that. Stercox found it in some of her old stuff. She says she cant remember exactly who drew it... but said the artist died. She said it was posted here somewhere.

Burnstyle, can you ask Stercox to see if she can search and find out who did this drawing? And how did it end up in her old stuff? when did the artist draw this? Can you scan it? I think it looks really neat.

we need a monument to those who have died in pursuit of the Secret... there should be one for the Thrill of the Chase too... and a support group for those who have crossed over into some realm of insanity...

make one for Josh then LOL

Spiritr wrote:: Burnstyle, can you ask Stercox to see if she can search and find out who did this drawing? And how did it end up in her old stuff? when did the artist draw this? Can you scan it? I think it looks really neat. All of us have been looking, no one can find it.

erexere wrote:: we need a monument to those who have died in pursuit of the Secret That's good, I'd put some flowers there. Where though...? (Not in Central Park.)

Goldengate wrote:: Burnstyle posted this to the FB group -- it's as hilarious as it is genius. Considering the fact that the book was actually written by two Lampoon writers, this fits perfectly within that spirit. Great work. I think I might have found the original post: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=759&start=150#p58918

Way to go gMan!!

The late great Paul Skoda.

burnstyle wrote:: Do you have a copy that damaged? I want to tear one apart and scan then share it... but all my copies are mint. I have one that's already basically destroyed. The binding started to fall apart, so in the end (this was about 8 or 9 years ago before I could have imagined that the books would become so expensive and rare) I took out all the pages, got rid of the entire "Field Guide" part of the book because I thought it was irrelevant, and only kept the front section of the book with the Fair People story, the images, and the verse. I stapled them together in a makeshift binding. These days I absolutely regret doing that.

TroubleTrover wrote:: I have one that's already basically destroyed. The binding started to fall apart, so in the end (this was about 8 or 9 years ago before I could have imagined that the books would become so expensive and rare) I took out all the pages, got rid of the entire "Field Guide" part of the book because I thought it was irrelevant, and only kept the front section of the book with the Fair People story, the images, and the verse. I stapled them together in a makeshift binding. These days I absolutely regret doing that. Oddly enough. Someone will still buy that lol.

BTW those scans on the hxxp://12treasures.com/ are the best I've used. They are the sharpest, perhaps too sharp. To blend everything you either should squint a bit or if your graphics program has "smooth" function (reverse of sharpen) you'll notice a noticeable improvement. It basically throws the image out of focus just slightly so to blent the pixelation. It won't add any artifacts. Thanks again for all your efforts Burnstyle.

Choice wrote:: BTW those scans on the hxxp://12treasures.com/ are the best I've used. They are the sharpest, perhaps too sharp. To blend everything you either should squint a bit or if your graphics program has "smooth" function (reverse of sharpen) you'll notice a noticeable improvement. It basically throws the image out of focus just slightly so to blent the pixelation. It won't add any artifacts. Thanks again for all your efforts Burnstyle. as an aside, the scans I sent you work better if you don't download them. The pixelation actually helps you see things.

Sure, but be careful to not get too abstract. Recently, I've been seeing people do slight alterations/look at it with one eye, etc, and marvel at how much they can see. That's pareidolia, and is like saying "there's a lot more hidden in that ice sculpture if you turn it into a puffy cloud."

drunknerds wrote:: Sure, but be careful to not get too abstract. Recently, I've been seeing people do slight alterations/look at it with one eye, etc, and marvel at how much they can see. That's pareidolia, and is like saying "there's a lot more hidden in that ice sculpture if you turn it into a puffy cloud." I agree, DN. I suppose I should have stated that the inferior quality helps you see things.

karleen wrote:: I agree, DN. I suppose I should have stated that the inferior quality helps you see things. https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... SX425_.jpg

I stick to seeing things that are there and not wish were there. There are no micro messages. Just like there is no bible code.

MERLIN wrote:: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com ... SX425_.jpg It's not a dating site Merlin.

https://pics.me.me/haters-gonna-hate-7876932.png

MERLIN wrote:: https://pics.me.me/haters-gonna-hate-7876932.png Meeeooooowwwww!

karleen wrote:: I will weigh in, here, as I'm someone who is constantly told there is nothing in the back of the book. My thought is that Preiss felt you didn't need it to solve it. It is possible to solve without the other parts of the book but there are things that can be helpful. Are they the solution? No, but they are helpful. Again, my personal opinion. Karlene, after you introduced the idea of clues in the book, I gave it a look and couldn't believe the clues sprinkled around. Your statement makes perfect sense.

Hi everyone ! I happen to be a french armchair and historical treasure hunter. I read all the forums, and found the best and the worst things one can read. Very funny, it is the same story worldwide ! Some people are definitely sure of their solutions, but unfortunately find just a big nothing everytime, and a few hunters (about a little ten of them in my country) grab all the treasures, but never claim they are 100 % sure of their solutions BEFORE having found ! As for me, I didn't want to be disturbed all time, this is why I several times refused to be in the Guiness book of records : we have to be humbles in my opinion, and is it my fault if I am a member of the MENSA with a score of 148/150 ? I will be quite soon in the US, where I come at least 4 times a year for professional reasons since a long time, and I hope to dig out a casque. Just after deciphering the riddles, what I have been doing since 1986, when I found my first treasure hunt, BTW the very first organized in France. Since then, I dug out 38 treasures that had been wrote by 29 different authors, in France and UK. May be my solutions are wrong, but if not, there will be a third casque found before the end of March... In that case, who knows ?, it is in my DNA to "read" in author's brain, may be because myself already organized that kind of hunts sometimes ; as for the bad news, if I am not wrong in my deciphering, I think to have found the solutions of 2 more casques in "The secret". Be safe, I dug about 41 holes to find "only" 38 treasures ;-) What means I may be wrong like anybody can be in that GAMES. Yes, we all are playing GAMES, it is not a WAR ! Please, don't think any second I am pretentious, it is just to tell you that it would be a very great honor to find a treasure (or more, lol !) of Byron Preiss, without thinking a second to ask for the jewels. The longer last a hunt, the value for the discovery is a pity... Once more, WE ARE ALL ONLY PLAYING A GAME ! And I will not be sad if I dig a hole where there is nothing : I will be happy of doing it, that's all ! And if I am not wrong, I bet most of you will be happy to read at a moment the solutions of the riddles. Myself I don't care about somebody else finding the solutions, the best moment is reading the solutions I didn't find myself ! Happy hunting everybody ! Meteor

May the force be with you Meteor. Which puzzles will you be digging?

Meteor, you mention in your first post a conference end of March in SF? That's the hardest puzzle, IMO. Post your findings either way. I'm assuming you got a permit. Funny, SF is the hardest puzzle, but the easiest to dig because of the permitting system. Unfortunately, the permits don't cover the most likely spot IMHO, aquatic park. My spot would be Washington square, but many clues don't line up. Meteor, I have another question for you. Do you feel the assumption that a latitude, longitude MUST appear in the image to be correct? I feel there's a few images where the latitude, longitude is not there, but he used something else to hint at the city.

Meteor wrote:: Hi everyone ! I happen to be a french armchair and historical treasure hunter. I read all the forums, and found the best and the worst things one can read. Very funny, it is the same story worldwide ! Some people are definitely sure of their solutions, but unfortunately find just a big nothing everytime, and a few hunters (about a little ten of them in my country) grab all the treasures, but never claim they are 100 % sure of their solutions BEFORE having found ! As for me, I didn't want to be disturbed all time, this is why I several times refused to be in the Guiness book of records : we have to be humbles in my opinion, and is it my fault if I am a member of the MENSA with a score of 148/150 ? I will be quite soon in the US, where I come at least 4 times a year for professional reasons since a long time, and I hope to dig out a casque. Just after deciphering the riddles, what I have been doing since 1986, when I found my first treasure hunt, BTW the very first organized in France. Since then, I dug out 38 treasures that had been wrote by 29 different authors, in France and UK. May be my solutions are wrong, but if not, there will be a third casque found before the end of March... In that case, who knows ?, it is in my DNA to "read" in author's brain, may be because myself already organized that kind of hunts sometimes ; as for the bad news, if I am not wrong in my deciphering, I think to have found the solutions of 2 more casques in "The secret". Be safe, I dug about 41 holes to find "only" 38 treasures ;-) What means I may be wrong like anybody can be in that GAMES. Yes, we all are playing GAMES, it is not a WAR ! Please, don't think any second I am pretentious, it is just to tell you that it would be a very great honor to find a treasure (or more, lol !) of Byron Preiss, without thinking a second to ask for the jewels. The longer last a hunt, the value for the discovery is a pity... Once more, WE ARE ALL ONLY PLAYING A GAME ! And I will not be sad if I dig a hole where there is nothing : I will be happy of doing it, that's all ! And if I am not wrong, I bet most of you will be happy to read at a moment the solutions of the riddles. Myself I don't care about somebody else finding the solutions, the best moment is reading the solutions I didn't find myself ! Happy hunting everybody ! Meteor I would be happy to meet you.....although my MENSA membership has lapsed.

Thank you for your incentives ! I am sorry, but I cannot tell details of deciphering nor where I will dig a hole. I promise that in case of a found one, you all will know many informations about how I found it. In case of a disappointing hole, I will share my ideas, except those that may be only a few meters form the casque. Just to go back there after... In Europe, we don't share our very good ideas as you do in America, I don't know what. Or may be just because we thing it is crazy to tell everybody what we hardly found... But, the longer is the quest, the easiest tongues are talking ! To be frank, I worked on "The Secret" during a lot of hours and days, for a many long time. In my opinion, it is a great advantage to speak a fluent english, french and other languages, because you can "smell" easier that a line of a verse looks strange to you. Speaking french is terrific when looking at the riddles of New Orleans and Montreal. Without telling anyone where I'll be within a few weeks, it looks obvious for me to give you a few hints, if I may, just because I had a great help of all what has been done for years here and elsewhere : - Did anybody noticed about the sentence graved on the Wright brothers Memorial where a word is wroten in the verse : "Inconquerable" (french word, checked with a lot of universities) BUT on the Memorial itself it is spelt : "Unconquerable" (english word) ? Great find... if you speak french ! - Has anyone noticed that the 13 immigrants countries on page 10 of the only right source (american edition of 1982) shows the place they came from, EXCEPT for the line 12, a line being crossing the "square of Europe" all way long ? Where does it come from ? Sorry, I found it, and it is very important in my mind ! - Did you notice that on page 188 there is a help to use "somewhere" the most common letters in English words ? - STOP !!!!!!!!!!!! Or I will give you a lot of informations than can help too much... I hope to find quite soon a casque, but I am not sure at all : stil the same, until the moment you found it buried, you can just suppose ! Just for information, I am quite sure of the next spot ; 99% for a second one ; 99% for the area of a third one needing to be there to find the "thing" hided in the image. And I had nearly a few looks at the 9 riddles remaining. I looked a bit at Florida, and I wonder why nobody writing on the forums didn't find an obvious evidence ! I swear that if I find a casque, I will tell you about what CANNOT BE IN ANYWAY A COINCIDENCE about Florida. Best regards, Meteor

I think Josh Cornell has relations in France.

I am very sorry, but I didn't answered to your question yet. According to me, it means this is only MY opinion until casques are found. In my mind, I think that most of the latitude-longitude in 1982 were probably right and USELESS when there were enough other clues to find the right city. IMHO, it gives twice the same information what means (for me), it is a good way to throw away these figures when they check with "GPS" further informations... This is an obvious way for an author to have searchers get read of the figures when they have, in their minds, understood them. BUT, who can say it won't be useful in another way ? To be frank, in other hunts, the figures were needed once more to hit the spot.... That is why, still IMHO, keep everything until the end of the story... I happened to find a treasure with the same figures of longitude and latitude, just measuring how many meters, or paces, or steps, north and east (for example) of a place FOUND with the same numbers...

Meteor wrote:: I read all the forums, and found the best and the worst things one can read. Very funny, it is the same story worldwide ! Some people are definitely sure of their solutions, but unfortunately find just a big nothing everytime, and a few hunters (about a little ten of them in my country) grab all the treasures, but never claim they are 100 % sure of their solutions BEFORE having found ! As for me, I didn't want to be disturbed all time, this is why I several times refused to be in the Guiness book of records : we have to be humbles in my opinion, and is it my fault if I am a member of the MENSA with a score of 148/150 ? Hello - I have an IQ of 48 and have solved several puzzles including but not limited to, the ones found on happy meal boxes, kids menus at Big Boy, and how to fit a square peg into a round hole. I have also set records for drinking Guiness in many a pub but declined the accolades. In addition, the city I currently live in has bastardized the French language. After reading my pedigree and understanding our similarities, do you now agree to provide me with your details of deciphering? I have a pretty shovel with your name on it.

Yeah? But do you drink wine with your pinky finger out?

Choice wrote:: But do you drink wine with your pinky finger out? Nope, I just listen to you whine while drinking and wiping tears of laughter with my pinky.

Choice wrote:: Yeah? But do you drink wine with your pinky finger out? https://static.wixstatic.com/media/e731 ... d3098.webp

GoldenMartyr wrote:: Nope, I just listen to you whine while drinking and wiping tears of laughter with my pinky. Are you gonna take your marbles and go home crying again Fenix?

Choice wrote:: Are you gonna take your marbles and go home crying again Fenix.douche? Please don't call me a Fenix.douche. Especially after you called in your buddy Merlin for reinforcement. You guys remind me of those slow spill gents....what were their names? Drawing pictures on puzzle images, pushing your agenda, not making progress. So, so similar.

Choice wrote::

Yup, it's official. You are a troll. Did I misspell deux? If you had some education in linguistics you would've recognized it. The whole image is middle eastern themed. In fact the word in the rectangle may be الخنجرية

Oh, the irony...you’re sort of like a daft Cornell. Now I feel bad.

I liked the old Fenix better. At least you had the integrity to leave when you didn't have anything to offer. Sad! Talk about whining. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7381&p=147886&hilit=Fenix+was+the+originator#p147886

Don’t be sad about your doppelgänger Merlin’s whining. You probably just forgot what account you were logged into that day. That Fenix guy must be a cool dude though, you’re obsessed with him. Okay, back to the regular scheduled programming. Can’t wait for your new scribbles!

Sad that you pretend not to be Fenix. I recognize your rash style of writing. And you had a wimpy cipher in your signature area for 5 minutes when decoded read "Fenix is back bitches" I'm sure Mark Parry has the record of this if you insist on hiding. Merlin is cool and has nothing to do with this. We have no communication.

Hammersmith wrote:: Everything I have seen quoted from Byron Preiss says that the clues are only in the images and verses, but a wiki user had a phone call with John Palencar back in April and he was quoted as saying, " He said that there is more clues in rest of the book. The Tale Simply Told & Passage To The New World. That the immigration story was important to him (Byron)." Choice wrote:: Anything that's "helpful" to solve a problem by definition IS a clue. There are plenty of information in the book i.e. the sample puzzle, immigration backdrop, travel map and stories. Of course they are all vague and generalizations and do not specifically help individual puzzles. However I've noticed some members, including myself dissect images in the stories (i.e. Columbus Elf) and draw clues from them. Is this a futile attempt since the publisher apparently stated that there's no clue hidden there? This is true - from the standpoint of that is what John Palencar said to that wiki user back in April. I spoke to that person right after he had that conversation with Palencar and he told me all the same things posted on the wiki. He's not the type of person to fabricate a story that he called Palencar. Now whether Palencar's statement is in fact accurate/true - of course I cannot attest to. But I do believe it is true - my opinion only. I don't know about shawnvw's conversation with him, but according to Egbert's debrief posting after meeting with Preiss: "5. B.Preiss was a very good poker player, and was not giving out any hints about any of the other locations. However, he did confirm my theory that the countries of origin of the faeries do connect with the sites. He also said that the pages following the verses (which make up the bulk of the book) have NO connection with the puzzles, and contain no additional clues. " So Preiss does not seem to rule out the opening narratives having no clues or connection to the puzzles. I would not discourage you from looking at the opening narratives before the images. I do not believe them to be vague generalizations or devoid of puzzle-specific hints.... (Again my opinion only)

Thanks Kang. I've found some of the information pre images/verses useful. Since I don't have a copy of the book, old or new version I have nothing to add on the rest of the book. Do you have any opinion on the new images/text in the Japanese version of the book, specifically the Dean/Monroe picture? BTW you have some of the best thought out posts on Wiki. I enjoyed reading them.

Choice wrote:: Thanks Kang. I've found some of the information pre images/verses useful...Do you have any opinion on the new images/text in the Japanese version of the book, specifically the Dean/Monroe picture?... Thanks Choice. I'm a little behind on some of the added stuff in the Japanese version (I have some catch up reading to do). So I found an image of the page you're talking about with Monroe, Dean and SD Jr. I'm sure some of the veterans here might have opinions more worthy than mine - and any ideas I might have would be pure speculation. However, my viewpoint is that I'm skeptical of anything being a clue (that I would lean on) unless it can be proven or strongly inferred to have been the work of either Byron or JJP. I looked, but did not see JJP's initials on that illustration. Though others worked on the project - photographer, the Lampoon guys, Trilling etc. - it seems to me that BP/JJP were involved with encoding the puzzles clues while others were not. Maybe I'm just behind, but I haven't seen any indication that either were the source of - or caused that illustration to be inserted into the Japanese book. Is that correct? If so, I think it might be reasonable to infer that it may have been the Japanese publisher that inserted it as a bit of marketing. I understand in Japan that they're big fans of American pop culture, Hollywood, products they see as "American" such as blue jeans and the like. Like "Hey, if you like cool American culture stuff - buy this book - it's cool too!" That's speculation as well, but just the vibe I get. And of course Preiss's hints are a different story....

Kang wrote:: Though others worked on the project - photographer, the Lampoon guys, Trilling etc. - it seems to me that BP/JJP were involved with encoding the puzzles clues while others were not. Maybe I'm just behind, but I haven't seen any indication that either were the source of - or caused that illustration to be inserted into the Japanese book. Is that correct? If so, I think it might be reasonable to infer that it may have been the Japanese publisher that inserted it as a bit of marketing. I understand in Japan that they're big fans of American pop culture, Hollywood, products they see as "American" such as blue jeans and the like. Like "Hey, if you like cool American culture stuff - buy this book - it's cool too!" That's speculation as well, but just the vibe I get. And of course Preiss's hints are a different story.... It's important to remember that all of these people literally worked side by side with each other when this book was published. Also from what I understood, there were a decent amount of pictures and illustrations which did not make the book. It's very possible this was left over art that was added due to the additional pages changing the book from an even to odd number of pages... or vice verse. It could also just as easily be, as you said, added by the Japanese publisher.

Goldengate wrote:: Correct. From a young artist in Mexico who is interested in the hunt! Will be updating with more information. Did anyone ever turn up more info on this apparent Spanish edition? Did it actually exist...?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Did anyone ever turn up more info on this apparent Spanish edition? Did it actually exist...? I looked into it a while back. I think that's actually a Spanish edition of Dragonworld.

atdreamer2112 wrote:: I looked into it a while back. I think that's actually a Spanish edition of Dragonworld. I agree, I came to the same conclusion back then. It's called: EL ÚLTIMO DRAGÓN - de Michael Reaves, Byron Preiss it is also about Simbala, like in WhiteRabbit's picture https://tienda.cyberdark.net/el-ultimo-dragon-n455.html here are some images (the layout looks a bit different but that's probably different for every edition.) https://www.todocoleccion.net/libros-segunda-mano-ciencia-ficcion-fantasia/el-ultimo-dragon-byron-preiss-michael-reaves-circulo-lectores~x65436485

Title on page 88: Team Spirit Rosa petrus aka canis calidus Rosa petrus: Pete Rose (Italian interpretation) Rose rock (Latin) Pink rock Canis calidus: Hot dog (Latin) page 89, NY Mets + SF Giants photo viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1191&hilit=monte+irvin&start=117 viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7352&hilit=monte+irvin&start=1 Retired #20 hxxp://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/sf/h ... umbers.jsp

Choice wrote:: Title on page 88: Team Spirit Rosa petrus aka canis calidus Rosa petrus: Pete Rose (Italian interpretation) Rose rock (Latin) Pink rock Canis calidus: Hot dog (Latin) page 89, NY Mets + SF Giants photo viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1191&hilit=monte+irvin&start=117 viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7352&hilit=monte+irvin&start=1 Retired #20 hxxp://sanfrancisco.giants.mlb.com/sf/h ... umbers.jsp What point are you making? It is Opening Day.

Prominent character in that image is the SF Giants. I previously mentioned a statue in GGP with rose granite base that has interesting features like large spiral decorations and it's at the entrance of the Hagiwara tea garden dr. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1094&start=1061

Choice wrote:: Prominent character in that image is the SF Giants. I previously mentioned a statue in GGP with rose granite base that has interesting features like large spiral decorations and it's at the entrance of the Hagiwara tea garden dr. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1094&start=1061 Total coincidence - I was looking at the same person - different location - "To the place the casque is kept"..... https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... C05122.JPG

So casque and casket and sarcophagus mean the same thing?

Choice wrote:: So casque and casket and sarcophagus mean the same thing? https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:A_D ... sh.djvu/63

MERLIN wrote:: https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Page:A_D ... sh.djvu/63 casque is the word BP used to describe the box it is a misuse but, since the book is a fantasy book, you get to make your own grammar rules. a Casque is a medieval helmet, but in this case it is a variation of cask a small barrel not a box, a cask usually contains liquid but could also contain small items. google translate can't handle this word substitution so you will always see it translate that word to helmet. It was never meant to be associated with the word helmet. a coffin or sarcophagus would be a box containing a body or body part.

We unearthed a fourth casque. We're the best!

things just get weirder and weirder around here. Perhaps there's a treasure in my Easter eggs? What say you, Goldengate?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X2whrQTHp7U

Unknown: things just get weirder and weirder around here Madness... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zpl4wkWMJtE . Madness.

Goldengate wrote:: Now -- who has theories about CLUES IN THE BOOK? Having contributed to the recent misadventures in this thread due to Doctor-He-Who-Shall-Not-Be-Named...by way of making amends, I’ll give that a go, Goldengate. Analysis of the Fair Folk and Immigration links in the opening narratives What follows are my own interpretations, of course built on the work of others previous. Many same thoughts and similar theories have been discussed before, in threads like these (among others): viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6946 – started by Erexere viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1851 – started by Fox There’s a lot to unpack so I’ll be posting Slow Spill style, in several parts. Pasting hypothesis and conclusions below as text – with full analysis in the linked document. For anything stated as fact, I’ve tried to include evidentiary hyperlinks. My interpretive statements mostly colored in purple for reference. Hoping to get a dialog going. Nothing earth shattering in this first post. I’ve seen most of this discussed here before. Premise: We searchers may have an imperfect understanding of the immigration themes - why they are what they are (and where they are) and thus what they mean and how they might apply or help solve the puzzle. Analysis document: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-GltyY ... sp=sharing Part I Conclusions: - The Fair Folk migrated to the New World first, with Man arriving much later. - Preiss seems to be telling us that the emigration of the Fair Folk is analogous to the real-world traditions of Man’s later ‘discovery’ and migration to the New World. Would like to see if there is any consensus on this first bit – or not. What I would really like to ask is for others to weigh in. Do you agree/disagree?

Analysis of the Fair Folk and Immigration links in the opening narratives Part II From the silence in response to Part I, I'll take it that there isn't a lot of disagreement on the interpretation. So here is the next installment, quite a bit more involved. Apologies in advance. Again, much has been discussed before. Maybe some new thoughts added. Interpretations mostly in purple. One aim is to organize some of what has been discussed about the narratives into one place. Doc includes Part I for anyone who may have missed. Part II: BP provides select puzzle city/region hints and Immigration Links hints Cumulative Hypothesis: - Maybe there is more to understand about the immigration references. And how they might help. - The Fair Folk migrated to the New World first, with Man arriving much later. - Preiss seems to be telling us that the emigration of the Fair Folk is analogous to the real-world Man’s later ‘discovery’ and migration to the New World. Analysis document: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1poNXvD ... sp=sharing Part II Conclusions: - Preiss gives solid hints to city or state for about half of the puzzles using Native-American tribe homelands. - There also appear to be hints for what Immigration Links tie to specific regions/cities for several puzzles. - With a few more hints that might be reasonably linked, once a puzzle city has been identified. - In addition, we may be specifically warned off making several Immigration connections that would be natural to try if using real-world history of European migration to the New World. Using these interpretations: The immigration links put into the puzzle are not just about actual history of new world settlement (Man). The immigration theme is (at least in part) about the Fair Folk and THEIR settlement (sometimes resettlement) of the New World.

VERY nice work, Kang! Each puzzle location should be taking this into consideration. There's bound to be a layer of lore for each, though there's something tricky involved at some point which throws most people off track. Texas for example, makes a lot of sense with respect to region but I could also believe the fair folk of Araby liked the backwards chronologically named Texas as it has a similarity to the word textiles. It's as if the name of Texas was influenced by the fair folk who settled there previous. It's important to play with these ideas, and I'm sure using what's in your doc is the correct approach.

erexere wrote:: VERY nice work, Kang! ... I could also believe the fair folk of Araby liked the backwards chronologically named Texas as it has a similarity to the word textiles. It's as if the name of Texas was influenced by the fair folk who settled there previous... Thanks erexere! Yes, with the mention of 'carpet-weaving' that may very well be an added wordplay clue. I kinda like that one, the more I think about it actually.

Analysis of the Fair Folk and Immigration links in the opening narratives Part III Part III: Preiss shows where to find out more about The Fair People Cumulative Hypothesis: - Maybe there is more to understand about the immigration references. And how they might help. - The stories of emigration of the Fair Folk are roughly analogous to historical ‘facts’ – with some changes. - Immigration theme is in part about the Fair Folk and THEIR New World settlement. - Preiss uses Fair Folk narratives to give us moderate to strong hints to puzzle city/region for more than half the puzzles plus hints on Immigration Links for those places – or several NOT to make. - The immigration theme is (at least in part) about the Fair Folk and THEIR settlement (sometimes resettlement) of the New World. (Contains parts 1-3 for convenience) Analysis doc: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1VwFYS6 ... sp=sharing Part III Conclusion: - Preiss put hints into the book on where to find more information about the Fair Folk. - Among the references he used to develop the Fair Folk themes were A Field Guide to the Little People by Nancy Arrowsmith and An Encyclopedia of Fairies by Katharine Mary Briggs. If correct, these reference materials might at worst give more insight into how the general themes of the narratives were developed and some of the possible source materials used. Or maybe there are more helpful things that might be learned...

Kang i would like to see you mach your part2 with Litany of the Jewels (Pages 20 & 21)

lost wrote:: Kang i would like to see you mach your part2 with Litany of the Jewels (Pages 20 & 21) The info the Litany gives us is well established so I didn't want to rehash it (I'm long-winded enough Lol). The LOTJ matches Fair Folk/Immigration group to jewel - and the jewel then matches to a painting by which is shown. But to answer your question, when meshed with Part II (adding the wrinkle that some of the squabble/conflict stories are meant to warn us off certain immigration to city matches), Preiss would appear to be laying out the following info for us: Image# - Jewel (LTOJ & Image) - Immigration (LOTJ) - Immigration (Vanishing/Passage) - City/Region (Vanishing/Passage) 1 - Pearl - China/Cathay - N/A - - N/A 2 - Diamond - Africa - Africa - East Coast city w slavery link (Charleston) 3 - Garnet - England - England - Roanoke 4 - Aquamarine - Greece - N/A - N/A 5 - Emerald - Ireland/Scotland - Ireland/Scotland - ** Not Boston** 6 - Sapphire - Spain/Iberia - Spain - Florida (w strong hints at N Florida/St. Augustine/FOY) 7 - Turquoise - France - N/A - ** Not Canada/Quebec/Montreal ** 8 - Ruby - Araby - Araby - Texas/Houston/Sugar Land 9 - Opal - Netherlands - Netherlands - ** Not NYC ** but Quebec/Montreal 10 - Amethyst - Germany - N/A - N/A 11 - Peridot - Italy - Italy - ** Not NYC/NJ ** 12 - Topaz - Russia etc. - Russia etc. - NYS place associated w Hudson River / NYC Boston/Massachusetts seems to be referenced as a puzzle city, with no clear Immigration link. And The Vanishing tells that only the strongest of the Fair Folk made the journey all the way to the Great Western Sea/SF. If correct, that's quite a lot of pieces. (Note that the folks here who put in the work to riddle out the currently accepted matches are to be admired. Hindsight is easy. This exercise is all about figuring out how the puzzles work. How he put them together. Figure out what he was thinking of - what resources and traditions he used. Because that can only help all of us. And if any new clues/thoughts come of it - all the better). There are more clues in the Litany. The second line of each 2-line immigrant group often/always contains an additional puzzle clue. I think I know a few, but others here will definitely know more of them than me. For anyone who's following along and thinks these interpretations are not out of bounds, more possible puzzle level clues will be in store in the next/final installment.

Good work Kang, thanks for the summaries.

Nice work Kang. Are you going to do something about the fair people? That would be very interesting to break down.

Thank you WhiteRabbit and NYCNative. And yes, I'm going to give it a couple more days for folks who maybe haven't visited in a bit to catch up on Parts 1-3. Likely will post the last part this weekend.

Finally got around to reading your work Kang, very well put together and nicely analyzed. Great job!

Analysis of the Fair Folk and Immigration links in the opening narratives - Part IV / Final I expect this last part will spark some strong opinions, so an aside to talk about the elephant(s) in the room. "All you need are the images and the verses." - "Others, not BP wrote the opening narratives." - "BP told Sir Egbert......" Folks all have opinions on these things, and that is OK. I'll save mine for another post if people want to talk about those things. But I will tongue in cheek ask the following: Roanoke wasn't identified as a puzzle city until, what 8-9 years ago? If the English interpretation in Part II + the answers to 3 simple questions could have given you a 30-year head start on the right park, would you take it? What clues may have been lost in the meantime and would it already have been found? - Do you know what a Pixie is? - Do you know what they look like and would you recognize one if you saw it? - Do you know what their main attribute is - what they are best known for? Part IV: Individual Puzzles, The Narratives and The Fair Folk Cumulative Hypothesis: - Maybe there is more to understand about the immigration references. And how they might help. - The stories of emigration of the Fair Folk are roughly analogous to historical ‘facts’ – with some changes. - Immigration theme is in part about the Fair Folk and THEIR New World settlement. - Preiss uses Fair Folk narratives to give us moderate to strong hints to puzzle city/region for more than half the puzzles plus hints on Immigration Links for several places – or several NOT to make. - Preiss put hints into the book on where to find more information about the Fair Folk. - Among the references he used to develop the Fair Folk themes were A Field Guide to the Little People by Nancy Arrowsmith and An Encyclopedia of Fairies by Katharine Mary Briggs. Analysis doc: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Gyel2GTjMEBUkw9DM3IbbAMXdQLmy3pO/view?usp=sharing Interpretations Conclusions: - The stories of emigration of the Fair Folk are roughly analogous to historical ‘facts’ – with some changes. - Immigration theme is in part about the Fair Folk and THEIR New World settlement (sometime resettlement). - Preiss uses Fair Folk narratives to give us moderate to strong hints to puzzle city/region for more than half the puzzles plus hints on Immigration Links for several places – or several NOT to make. - Preiss put hints into the book on where to find more information about the Fair Folk. - Historical folklore/mythology appear to provide background on how/why Preiss designed the puzzle as he did. - Each image shows one of the Fair Folk from the pg. 10 species list – from that Immigration Link group. - For half of the puzzles, the immigration link MAY be because of the Fair Folk in image and less Man-related. - Knowledge of this and of folklore appear to provide puzzle-level info such as reasons for immigration links that were previously unclear – plus also solution clues, hints and confirmers. Perhaps more… Again, my opinion only. Your mileage may vary. I have not included all of my research and interpretations here. I don't have it all figured out and there are no magic bullets here to solve all puzzles. This is a conversation starter to lay out some of the evidence as I see it so that all can evaluate. So let's discuss....

A lot to unpack. From what I understand, some of the puzzles have more then one nation of the fair folk in them. Ex. Chicago. Then we have to not only figure out from the passages where they landed by some of their interactions with the native Americans, we also have to figure out where the migrated to. Another example would be the Low dwarves over Manhattan, when from the passages in the book we know they landed in Massachusetts. This is going to take some time...

NYCNative wrote:: A lot to unpack. Unknown: From what I understand, some of the puzzles have more then one nation of the fair folk in them. Ex. Chicago. Unknown: Then we have to not only figure out from the passages where they landed by some of their interactions with the native Americans, we also have to figure out where the migrated to. Unknown: Another example would be the Low dwarves over Manhattan, when from the passages in the book we know they landed in Massachusetts. Yes, that's why I tried to break it up and spread it out. I don't believe this is the case for Chicago (my opinion). The Fair Folk in the image is the homely wrinkly creature. He is a Brownie (basically a House Elf). The other item that some people call the fairy is a somewhat camouflaged depiction of the Fountain of the Great Lakes statue that's part of the puzzle. (Yes, JJP hid her a bit by putting wings on her, but that's not one of the Fair Folk from Ireland or Scotland). Image 8 has the Djinn and some say the star is a Peri because pg. 16 describes Peri as "bright and beautiful as starlight." However tradition doesn't hold that the look like a star. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peri But possible? Maybe. I am perplexed by Image 11. I've only researched that one a little, the butterfly-like fairy would fit the description of a Farfarelli. So I'm not sure what to make of the woman. She may be a Folletti. But that would be 2 then huh? I need to do more research on that one. We don't really need to 'figure out' where they migrated to. Remember, none of what I've discussed disputes the commonly accepted cities and immigration links. It is more an attempt to explain WHY the immigration links are what they are and where they are (and in some cases why according to BP they AREN'T a city we might try to put them in). So where I'm interpreting the 'conflict/squabble' allegories as warning off from making a certain immigration match - we know where that group went. Ex. The story about the Erin/Irish in Massachusetts being upset about Celt-murdering Puritans coming there: We don't need to figure out where they went. Accepted match is Ireland/Scotland and Chicago. That's where they went, so no complication to figure out there. I think there may be some crossed wires here. The Lowland Dwarves (Dutch) in The Vanishing watch the Canarsie (Brooklyn tribe) trade Manhattan to Peter Minuet. That's why they left there. A little story that explains why we should not connect the Dutch (who established New Amsterdam / now NYC) - to NYC. But we again know where they went - Montreal. Thus the accepted Dutch/Montreal match stays in place. (I'm unaware of any hints that would put the Dutch in Massachusetts. Please elaborate if that's what you're saying?)

As Centaur was a hint to Greece, the smiling lady in image 11 is a hint to Italy. Book calls her "Mona-ciello"; Mona Lisa?

Choice wrote:: As Centaur was a hint to Greece, the smiling lady in image 11 is a hint to Italy. Book calls her "Mona-ciello"; Mona Lisa? or maybe Monticello - maybe we are looking for something to do with Jefferson? Nice catch Choice.

Choice wrote:: ...smiling lady in image 11 is a hint to Italy. Book calls her "Mona-ciello"; Mona Lisa? Perhaps it is just misrememberance, but with all due respect that statement is not accurate. On page 16, when speaking about the Fair Folk that came over from Italy, what the book says is "...aboard were the Monaciello, those rotund and randy Monks of Naples..." So BP is referring to a 'they' - plural - (round Monks - who are male). The word Monaciello means "Little Monk." Not a female and so this line does not refer to the figure in Image 11. Here is some more info about the Monaciello fair folk. Exactly in line with what BP describes on page 16. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Monaciello The Monaciello ([monaˈʧjɛlːo], meaning "little Monk" in Neapolitan language) is a fairy of the tradition of Naples, Italy. He is usually depicted as a short thick kind of little man dressed in the long garments of a monk with a broad brimmed hat.

Looking at that line again the ciello is not capitalized so it is just a hyphenated word even-though Monaciello is singular (cielli plural). Another spelling is Munaciello. Earlier he had used fictional names to describe famous people i.e. "...the Discovery of the New Found Land to the Italian fairy Colon Savanelli, an intrepidly nautical Folleto (misspelled) out of Genoa."

you are right Kang. I got my wires crossed when saying the Alven landed in Mass. My bad. The Alven seems to have landed in upstate New york (catterskills). I was wondering what you make of the passage about the Greeks. On the paragraph that starts, "from Hellas itself.." When I read this paragraph I am interpreting it as if the remain fair people from Greece had been transported to Heaven (isle of blessed). which is a bit confusing when we wonder how the ended up in Cleveland. Also, Colon Savanelli. This seems like Columbus from the description just the fair people's version of him.

Choice wrote:: Looking at that line again the ciello is not capitalized so it is just a hyphenated word..." NYCNative wrote:: ...I was wondering what you make of the passage about the Greeks. On the paragraph that starts, "from Hellas itself.." When I read this paragraph I am interpreting it as if the remain fair people from Greece had been transported to Heaven (isle of blessed). which is a bit confusing when we wonder how the ended up in Cleveland. Unknown: Also, Colon Savanelli. This seems like Columbus from the description just the fair people's version of him. Thank you for the correction on plural/singular. I was mistaken. (Edited - forgot mea culpa) Not entirely sure what you're saying here. Might you clarify? The word Monaciello is not hyphenated because it's a two-part word. It's hyphenated because it starts on one line and continues on the next. As is the case with other nearby words and throughout the stories. This is a customary practice with printing and typesetting. In the Google Books ebook version, Monaciello is not hyphenated, nor are any other the other indicated words. Unlike the word cliff-dwellers, which is hyphenated in both sources. https://books.google.com/books?id=t9OCDwAAQBAJ&pg=PT14&dq=%22the+secret%22+monaciello&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwizrLTNxbniAhVvrlkKHQ1_BKsQ6AEIKjAA#v=onepage&q=%22the%20secret%22%20monaciello&f=false In any case, Monaciello refer to a male fairy. Dressed like a monk. So it is unlikely the figure in Image 11 is a Monaciello or that Preiss is referring to her by using that name. Yes, there are other spellings and local variations as I mentioned. But description of what they look like all seem to agree. hxxp://www.martinrua.com/2011/10/munaciello-legendary-spirit-of-naples.html Great question! I'm saving that for another post, as this one had too much info already. But like all of the stories of other immigrant groups in that area of The Passage - the place where all of the groups 'go' seem to be a euphemistic/symbolic reference to the New World (Land of the Eagle, a Nova Scotia) or generically "The West." Here's my take on the Greek one. They are legendary places 'off to the west." These sections don't appear to me to be more specific than that as to a particular city we should be matching. We have to find those another way. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fortunate_Isles The Fortunate Isles or Isles of the Blessed[1][2] (Greek: μακάρων νῆσοι, makárōn nêsoi) were semi-legendary islands in the Atlantic Ocean, variously treated as a simple geographical location and as a winterless earthly paradise inhabited by the heroes of Greek mythology. .... Later on the islands were said to lie in the Western Ocean near the encircling River Oceanus; Madeira, the Canary Islands, the Azores, Cape Verde, Bermuda, and the Lesser Antilles have sometimes been cited as possible matches. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hesperides In Greek mythology, the Hesperides (/hɛˈspɛrɪdiːz/; Ancient Greek: Ἑσπερίδες [hesperídes]) are the nymphs of evening and golden light of sunsets , who were the "Daughters of the Evening" or " Nymphs of the West ". They were also called the Atlantides (Ἀτλαντίδων) from their reputed father, the Titan Atlas.[1] ....The name means originating from Hesperos (evening). Hesperos, or Vesper in Latin, is the origin of the name Hesperus, the evening star (i.e. the planet Venus) as well as having a shared root with the English word "west" . Yes, it's an allegory. Story with hidden meaning (that being that he is analogous to Christopher Columbus). For more info on that and the other two 'discovery' references, see Part I https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-GltyYTG8pvTOJRnv-TxyeYY1FhgEweO/view?usp=sharing

That's what I meant (what you wrote). The hyphenation is word wrap and not intentional use of two words. If Mona Lisa was intended then it would read Mona Ciello (capitalized). One thing bothers me is her smile (image 11). Her lips are misplaced noticeably to the left of the image.

After processing all this and relying on the paintings/images to take me the rest of the way, I can still not figure out a good system of pairing the verses with the image. Yes, I can use the birth stones and flowers to correspond to the jewel thus the nation but then I have no idea how to make the verses fit. any ideas?

NYCNative wrote:: ...I can still not figure out a good system of pairing the verses with the image... any ideas? Yes, that is a whole other thing and another thread. That was one of the topics of the Slow Spill thread, but while I understand the gist of the method described, I'm unclear on the details. More info here and here. hxxp://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7325&start=90#p143771 hxxp://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7325&start=315#p144969

Kang wrote:: Yes, that is a whole other thing and another thread. That was one of the topics of the Slow Spill thread, but while I understand the gist of the method described, I'm unclear on the details. More info here and here. hxxp://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7325&start=90#p143771 hxxp://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7325&start=315#p144969 As always, Gracias Kang.

Hey all, I found a great clue in the book but not sure how one would come to the conclusion organically. In the field guide to the fair people, the character of the pill grim has a paragraph talking about the Shakers. At first it didn't mean anything, until a conversation put me looking around Rockerfeller park. Seems the boarder community to the park is named Shaker heights after the same religion. I am not sure how this connection would be reached on its on. The pill grim is English and Native to New England but that does not help a bit. Thoughts?

In reading this article hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/plain.dealer.121982.pdf Posted by forest-blight here (thank you) viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7350&p=153437#p153429 Seems to shed more light on who wrote what in the book. Preiss is named as co-author. "The first third of the book is a straight telling of the saga of the Fair People..." "...Preiss hired Sean Kelly and Ted Mann of the National Lampoon to write two-thirds of the book..." "...the last two-thirds of the book is a field-spotter's guide..."I felt", says Preiss "that we had to tell the story straight at the beginning, but the book as a whole would be easier to swallow if it were funny." So if accurate, and Kelly and Mann were the main writers of the Field Guide (guided by Preiss) and as co-author it is reasonable to infer that Preiss write the opening narratives.

Kang wrote:: In reading this article hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/plain.dealer.121982.pdf Posted by forest-blight here (thank you) viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7350&p=153437#p153429 Seems to shed more light on who wrote what in the book. Preiss is named as co-author. "The first third of the book is a straight telling of the saga of the Fair People..." "...Preiss hired Sean Kelly and Ted Mann of the National Lampoon to write two-thirds of the book..." "...the last two-thirds of the book is a field-spotter's guide..."I felt", says Preiss "that we had to tell the story straight at the beginning, but the book as a whole would be easier to swallow if it were funny." So if accurate, and Kelly and Mann were the main writers of the Field Guide (guided by Preiss) and as co-author it is reasonable to infer that Preiss write the opening narratives. Hi Kang, it's Leigh Ann. I don't usually post here so I'm not sure if it's going to work, but regarding your last sentence above...YEP!

There is another interview with Kelly which says the field guide was written first, and byron packaged a treasure hunt around it. I'm not sure which one to believe.

burnstyle wrote:: There is another interview with Kelly which says the field guide was written first, and byron packaged a treasure hunt around it. I'm not sure which one to believe. (Unless I misunderstand you, which is possible) Both of those statements could be true, rather than believing one or the other. I was more commenting on seeing if we can figure out who wrote what (specifically if BP wrote the opening narratives) rather than which section was written earlier or later.

From what I've been told, this is the impression I have: Sean and Ted wrote a book (the guide)and couldnt sell it, byron packaged a treasure hunt around it (byron wrote everything before the guide) and sold it to bantam. Somewhere in the middle of that byron worked closely with Sean and Ted on aspects of what they had written. He could have added new stuff, or changed theirs, or just edited. I dont know. But even though he didnt write the back of the book, he had a hand in it. If that makes sense.

burnstyle wrote:: From what I've been told, this is the impression I have: Sean and Ted wrote a book (the guide)and couldnt sell it, Are you talking about the Canadian article where Sean says he always wanted to write a book on fairies?

GoldenMartyr wrote:: Are you talking about the Canadian article where Sean says he always wanted to write a book on fairies? I mean, that's not ALL I am referring to... but it's part of it. Here's one of the articles. https://12treasures.com/wp-content/uplo ... 112082.jpg

I read it as an idea Sean had not something he had already written. I could be misinterpreting though.

It could be that Preiss or one of the co-authors of The Secret had an idea or some material for a book rattling around, a parody of the then-popular ( very popular) "Gnomes" book by Wil Huygen (a guide to Gnomes, profusely illustrated and written in a "in-universe" style) and "Faeries" by Alan Lee and Brian Froud (also profusely illustrated and written in an in-universe style). These two books and their sequels sold very, very well. So someone might have been thinking of a parody project, a snarky comedic guide to the Fair Folk, riding on the coattails of these books. If the Guide to the Fair Folk idea landed on Byron Preiss (or came to him in a flash of inspiration), and he was looking to capitalize on book trends, and he had another not-quite-completely-fleshed out idea for a treasure hunt to capitalize on the success of "Masquerade", why not combine two strong-selling ideas into the same book, then promote it as both a treasure hunt and a fantasy creatures guide? It'll sell millions! This might be the reason why The Secret feels like two separate books mashed together.

Sharing thoughts : Looking more at the Litany of the Jewels, I am starting to believe that within each description of the jewel's litany there is a hint to the treasure ground. The connection can be made with both casques that have been found (IMO). I know this is kind of an after the fact, of the two solved puzzles, but maybe this holds true to hints of places in other puzzles. Chicago Litany : "Brilliant as eyes of Celtic folk, Cold morning green, their Emerald" The eyes in the image have a canning resemblance to Lincoln, bags under the eyes, even the statue has this representation, "Green" the color of money or by definition a color worn by merchants and bankers, (Grant being on a 50$ bill, money also Green) Cleveland Litany:" The Nymphs of Hellas cherish sweet Aquamarine spring-water clear" Greek mythology, Nymphs were associated with pools fresh water,(clean) and fountains, also associated with nature and gardens, all can be found at the Cleveland site. San Francisco Litany: "Pearl Chaste, perfect as the silver moon" Silver moon , Silver dollar, two types of silver dollars have a moon on them, the Bicentennial and Eisenhower silver dollar. I think the key is the Dollar, Washington is the most famous person on the dollar, (not on these coins), but represents a place in SF, Washington Square (park) https://ibb.co/fSRd1sG https://ibb.co/Rb3kx0r

Looks like there are more images in the Japanese version... like this map : (I still hope someone will share all of them...)

slowrisingwhitebread wrote:: Has anyone ever figured out what all the letters in the fence spell out at the beginning of the book? I know that the wiki mentions "look west" can be found in the fence and "Boston" can found in the fay's hair, but it seems like there's an a lot more in the fence than just "look west". I think I've figured out what's there, but I don't want to bother posting more if it's already known. If what I see is true, I think it narrows the Boston search area down a little bit. Depending who you ask, the fence does not spell anything out. The theory is that it is the actual dig sites in order. It is an interesting theory, especially since it has matched up pretty well to the sites where casques have been found and some sites that are suspected.

NYCNative wrote:: Depending who you ask, the fence does not spell anything out. The theory is that it is the actual dig sites in order. It is an interesting theory, especially since it has matched up pretty well to the sites where casques have been found and some sites that are suspected. I agree, that is an interesting theory. I had never heard that before. I'll have to take a look at it again and see what I can see.

I didn't really see cities in there, but I'd be open to it if someone could give examples. Mostly, I just see what I saw before: "look southwest of highway 2A" If that's what it really says then it rules out the North End and narrows it down to Charlesgate, Back Bay Fens, BU areas. So still lots of potential spots to search.

Unknown: The theory is that it is the actual dig sites in order. I'll admit that I'm not familiar with this theory NYC. Can you point me to the thread where it was discussed? TIA

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I'll admit that I'm not familiar with this theory NYC. Can you point me to the thread where it was discussed? TIA Of course. hxxp://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7358&p=145984#p145984

Has anyone taken an image of the fence and overlaid what words they see using MS Paint or something ? (I'm thinking other than "Look" which is easy to see and "Boston" in the creature's hair.)

Kalessin wrote:: Has anyone taken an image of the fence and overlaid what words they see using MS Paint or something ? (I'm thinking other than "Look" which is easy to see and "Boston" in the creature's hair.) You can read the thread that i just posted I link to. Nobody really posted their research regarding the fence page. It would be a great idea though.

Unknown: You can read the thread that i just posted I link to. Unknown: NYC said: The theory is that it is the actual dig sites in order. It is an interesting theory, especially since it has matched up pretty well to the sites where casques have been found and some sites that are suspected. I did. There is very little substance to it, and none once the thread devolves into a pissing contest. Certainly nothing that would support the following statement: An easy test would be to see which panels match up with the two solved puzzles, and in what way. Presumably, they would correspond to the first few panels since most people agree that both Cleveland and Chicago are amongst the most basic of the twelve. The OP was asked several times to include this information, but she declined. Which is her right. Thanks for the reply NYC.

No problem. I don't see it either. I see the Boston, I guess. The "t" doesn't really look like a " t" but other then that, ok.

Someone sent me an mspaint diagram for the front of the book showing digspots like... a year ago. I think it was the same poster. If I remeber correctly she had just started researching it and it didnt make a whole lot of sense at the time. Then she moved on to the 12 tribes stuff. I'm not sure if she picked the gate back up or not. (Nm I was confusing karleen with someone else)

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I'll admit that I'm not familiar with this theory NYC. Can you point me to the thread where it was discussed? TIA I started the convo : https://imgur.com/a/k0OqrKc However, from what I've discovered, it makes an argument for locations that people are not fond of so I dropped it.

Unknown: it makes an argument for locations that people are not fond of I can't speak for other people, by I'm partial to the Greek Garden in the CCG, and the N/W corner of Grant Park, hard by the Art Museum. Can you make an argument for those two?

The gnome is most likely preiss' caricature and his hair reads Byron. Also there are 14 fence posts and 14 fence panels; one post is between the pages (post finial half shown).

From my book, https://i.imgur.com/DR8luph.jpg Link - Large!

Unknown: From my book... Still 14. And still no idea how this is supposed to help. I'll add it to the list.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: And still no idea how this is supposed to help. It does, sort of; as a sample puzzle perhaps. Consider these two pages as a tribute or homage to the book contributors. So consider the text as the "verse" and in combo with the image to solve the puzzle. There are 9 contributor's names including JJP and BP. JJp's initials are on the image already and BP, the head cheese in the hair and perhaps the gnome's face; I see a resemblance. So that leaves with 7 names. There are 7 sets of book-end finials on the fence in form of mirrored D and D [ ᗡ D ] for 1st and last name initials. For example, the 1st panel is SK for Sean Kelly and so on... NO CLUES FOR BOSTON!

Choice wrote:: It does, sort of; as a sample puzzle perhaps. Consider these two pages as a tribute or homage to the book contributors. So consider the text as the "verse" and in combo with the image to solve the puzzle. There are 9 contributor's names including JJP and BP. JJp's initials are on the image already and BP, the head cheese in the hair and perhaps the gnome's face; I see a resemblance. So that leaves with 7 names. There are 7 sets of book-end finials on the fence in form of mirrored D and D [ ᗡ D ] for 1st and last name initials. For example, the 1st panel is SK for Sean Kelly and so on... NO CLUES FOR BOSTON! To clarify, and I'm not sure any of this matters AT ALL, but this is how I was approaching it: The first panel(left) has that serpent sort of shape indicative of the SF puzzle. The last panel (13? 14?) helps ME with NY. I say me, bc we all have our own ideas. Next, I was searching for sections of park maps that had roads/paths, etc. that matched up with the scrollwork in the fence. While I did find things that matched up, we all know that we can enlarge and reduce just about anything we want to get it to work. I abandoned the entire idea but there ARE maps there. Good luck!

Interesting. The next question that will be asked, as per your perspective, could you match up anything that would fit for Cleveland/Chicago?

NYCNative wrote:: Interesting. The next question that will be asked, as per your perspective, could you match up anything that would fit for Cleveland/Chicago? The question has been asked many times and the answer is: probably not, unless you enlarge/decrease maps to suit your own purpose. So, no.

karleen wrote:: The question has been asked many times and the answer is: probably not, unless you enlarge/decrease maps to suit your own purpose. So, no. I don't think there should be any issue with enlarging/decreasing the image... I had a theory for SF that I felt was well thought out, and it included the tail of the dragon being a map, as you were indicating. It would essentially be walking paths and roads in GGP. When you overlaid it, it wasn't to scale. The scale altered section-to-section. When you drew over a map it made a pretty un-artistic image. So I can see how JJP could warp the pathways to form a more uniform, better looking image. To me, there is a fence section that resembles the serpent of SF, and another that resembles the scrollwork on the dress for Boston. Interestingly, the other panels seem to be slightly different. It's not as if one panel was drawn and then repeated, or even the density or type or curves were repeated, which could suggest that the panels have some significance- either as author's initials, or as map-like sections. If you are looking for maps, maybe consider that the maps have been stylised and won't directly overlay. On a side note, we dug SF based on my map theory, and found nothing, so my theory could be completely wrong and useless. Take it or leave it! Happy hunting. XdM

Has anything of importance, even a good theory, came out of the fairy secrets comes in twos clue? Ex. NYC & SF?

NYCNative wrote:: Has anything of importance, even a good theory, came out of the fairy secrets comes in twos clue? Ex. NYC & SF? There seems to be a bit of coincidence that ties cities together in pairs, but it only works for a few of them. Methods repeat sometimes, but not always. short answer: not really.

If you read the line in it's context it's somewhat obvious that it's meant for pairing of Image to Verse. "A dozen paintings -- Share the clues -- Yet Fairy secrets -- Come in twos -- To sing a happy treasure song -- To have a casque to you belong -- Wed one picture -- With one verse -- For Fair Folk's peace -- Goodness first."

Choice wrote:: If you read the line in it's context it's somewhat obvious that it's meant for pairing of Image to Verse. "A dozen paintings -- Share the clues -- Yet Fairy secrets -- Come in twos -- To sing a happy treasure song -- To have a casque to you belong -- Wed one picture -- With one verse -- For Fair Folk's peace -- Goodness first." I 100% agree with this, but so many people think it is more than that. I've just never seen enough evidence to make it more complicated than: pair these together.

The entirety of the book has been put online. it is searchable and allows comments. The text is not formatted the same way as the book (especially in the fair folks guide) and I'm told that may be important... so you may still need to buy a copy of the book. Color versions of the fair folk photos are added when available. https://12treasures.com/american-2/

Choice wrote:: -- For Fair Folk's peace -- Goodness first." This is the part that is confusing or unknown - obviously the first part pair image/verse but this part smacks of a specific instruction do these lines somehow indicate an order or priority or method....?

maltedfalcon wrote:: This is the part that is confusing or unknown - obviously the first part pair image/verse but this part smacks of a specific instruction do these lines somehow indicate an order or priority or method....? It means stop fighting in the forums! Or, "for goodness sake!"

burnstyle wrote:: The entirety of the book has been put online. it is searchable and allows comments. The text is not formatted the same way as the book (especially in the fair folks guide) and I'm told that may be important... so you may still need to buy a copy of the book. Color versions of the fair folk photos are added when available. https://12treasures.com/american-2/ This is really cool Thank you for posting. This is my goto site for any quick reference

burnstyle wrote:: The entirety of the book has been put online. it is searchable and allows comments. The text is not formatted the same way as the book (especially in the fair folks guide) and I'm told that may be important... so you may still need to buy a copy of the book. Color versions of the fair folk photos are added when available. https://12treasures.com/american-2/ The Fair Folk look so much better in color photos. Thank you!

Kalessin wrote:: The Fair Folk look so much better in color photos. Thank you! Are those from National Lampoon Mag.?