n00b here image 7 and verse 7 both seem to be NOLA. Most of what I am seeing seems way more simple than most of what has been postulated on the web. Referencing Common Stuff: D5/6 - Arch at entrance to Louis Armstrong Park F5 - boy on statue at Lafayette Sq 29/90 - Lat/Long for New Orleans Stuff I haven't seen (or not as much) F5 - touching circles and hour hand resemble layout of duncan plaza https://www.google.com/maps/place/Duncan+Plaza/@29.9532274,-90.0786408,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x8620a5e05020211b:0x2896631845e7a6f7 H4 - mask resembles face statue in Elks Place - I think this used to be in a public pool or fountain but can't find info https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/81/68/b2/8168b210c0be3949a15a4f6a31e5d44e.jpg L8 - curves and width change on checkerboard resembles curve and width change on Basin St near park https://www.google.com/maps/place/Duncan+Plaza/@29.9616397,-90.0703849,18z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x8620a5e05020211b:0x2896631845e7a6f7 N9 - creature face resembles open-mouth horse at Jackson Square monument C6 - moon and stars similar to iconic water meter covers Here's where I think I am on to something that hasn't been discussed as much - I think that Verse 7 may be the NOLA verse that matches this image, and that it may be all about the Jackson Square Area. At stone wall's door Entrance to Jackson Square The air smells sweet Jasmine on fence and gate Not far away High posts are three Cathedral Spire's on St. Louis Cathedral Education and Justice For all to see Museum & Courthouse flanking St. Louis (in 1982) Sounds from the sky Calliope on Steamboat Near ace is high Steamboat is docked near Harrahs Running north, but first across River runs north here, after a W>E leg In jewel's direction Jewel is toward River ? Is an object Of Twain's attention the Mississippi River Giant pole Flag Pole in different location in 1982 hxxp://imgur.com/kGOFkeA Giant step one step away? Or reference to Moon Walk To the place The casque is kept.

Nice work, and great observations, but Harrahs opened in 1999. I think you should look at Verse 2 for that city :-) Remember things you use must have existed in 1981

I reposted Drom's analysis in the verse 7 thread.

Jackson Square is named after Andrew Jackson, not Stonewall Jackson.

I look at it as I thought it.

Mark X wrote:: Jackson Square is named after Andrew Jackson, not Stonewall Jackson. True, but in verse 11 the general consensus is that "ride the man of oz" refers to the Baum Bridge even though that would be Thomas Baum not L. Frank Baum. If that is true it would mean Preiss was willing to take that type of poetic license.

There is an Opal in Image 7, the words "Gnomes Admire" is in verse 2. "The Opal of the lowland Gnomes" is the clue given in the litany. This is all from the book without any guessing. As far as taking liberty with the names. Consider that this is a puzzle. Not the DaVinci Code.

Turquoise

decibalnyc wrote:: As far as taking liberty with the names. Consider that this is a puzzle. Not the DaVinci Code. Do you have a better fit for "ride the man from oz"? I haven't really seen anything else proposed which is surprising.

The verse 11 line, "ride the man of oz," has many potential applications and is convincingly assumed to align with P3 for the Roanoke, North Carolina puzzle. I've seen it said that the line calls attention to the Wizard of Oz writer, Baum, and therefore the Baum Ferry or the Baum Bridge. Either interpretation has its pros and cons. Notice the line uses the word "ride" rather than "drive, implying a mode of transport other than a car. I would think it's developing the image of a horse and rider, since a person rides a horse. This might align with the horse head shape of the armor wearing figure and possibly go with some Nag's Head location reference. There's also the odd use of lower case for "oz" which steers us off the proper noun path leading to a Baum and might offer some other conclusion based on oz being a unit of weight measurement where a light weight man would be measured in ounces verses a normal weight measurement in pounds. It might be worth noting that the goal of being the least possible weight for a man is something applicable to jockeys in horse racing. There is Jockey Ridge (rid_e if you lose the g) State Park which was founded by Calista Baum. That's my favorite interpretation. I've talked about this already in the verse 11 thread. Anyway, this thread for Verse 7 / Image 7 doesn't seem as good as a focus on Verse 2 with Image 7.

With all due respect, that question was directed at decibalnyc.

I'm sorry, I saw an opportunity to share. Sorry to detract from your personal exchange. decibalnyc said there is an opal in image 7, which is a mistake, because the opal is in image 9. image 7 has a turquoise.

Can anyone tell me why verse 7 can't match with image 7 for New Orleans.

Howardjthomas wrote:: Can anyone tell me why verse 7 can't match with image 7 for New Orleans. That theory fell out of favour when Verses 2 and 6 were found to contain direct quotations from Abroad in America relating to New Orleans and Charleston respectively. This counts strongly in their favour, though I don't think it's indisputable. PS Guess what, apparently Sarmiento was a Freemason .

I'm personally not convinced of the "Abroad in America" connection--- it just seems like this theory arose as a result of using modern technology to solve an antique puzzle. If I remember my old threads correctly, this connection was first mentioned in 2006 or so, when a Q4T reader was running internet searches for words used in the Verses? I ordered a used copy of "Abroad in America" last year and read it cover to cover last year, but I didn't see any apparent link to this puzzle. Is Domingo Sarmiento some kind of revered figure in New Orleans? Because there's certainly no monuments to Edward Blyden in Charleston. I think the ghosts of Blyden and Sarmiento have begun to haunt this puzzle... it may be wise to all these fresh sets of eyes to question every "presumed" Image/Verse pairing (and possibly even the "presumed" cities) we've been working from, at least until a few more casques come out of the ground...

JamesV wrote:: I'm personally not convinced of the "Abroad in America" connection My view on the Abroad in America thing is that I could understand BP using one very obscure reference to identify a city, but two from the same book is odd...especially when Verse 6 with its Charleston quote also features several things that connect it pretty well with SF, such as Treasure Island and another Edwin/Edwina. BP must have been aware of those connections, and seems to me to have deliberately set out to confuse the reader as to which image goes with which verse. So might one of the references be a red herring? I think so, quite possibly.

I agree, it definitely is odd! The whole "Abroad in America" connection might be deserving of a thread of its own. Interesting that you mentioned V6 as a possibility for SF, I started considering that one as well after an informative visit to Robert Louis Stevenson's home in Samoa last year. I didn't realize there was an Edwin/Edwina connection in that city as well-- let me do some more research, and if I have anything constructive to add then I'll post some comments in the corresponding thread.

I don't buy this as a link to any thing. In 1982 who could have found this with out the internet. I have a solid logical theory for New Orleans using verse 7. Imho i believe the verse is a micro(small area 250yrds or so) set of direction to the spot to dig. The image is macro with some local identifiers. I hope to test my theory soon. I would have to day but its monsooning.

Howardjthomas wrote:: I don't buy this as a link to any thing. In 1982 who could have found this with out the internet. It's too much of a coincidence for BP to have included them both for no reason at all. In the days before eBay and Facebook, I guess people still read books. (Yeah, it seem very obscure. But so is Melville's "Pierre". So is Marietta Robusti.)

WhiteRabbit wrote:: My view on the Abroad in America thing is that I could understand BP using one very obscure reference to identify a city, but two from the same book is odd...especially when Verse 6 with its Charleston quote also features several things that connect it pretty well with SF, such as Treasure Island and another Edwin/Edwina. BP must have been aware of those connections, and seems to me to have deliberately set out to confuse the reader as to which image goes with which verse. So might one of the references be a red herring? I think so, quite possibly. But a red herring is traditionally an obvious clue. You are right, that is an obscure reference to use... but to me that means it probably is a genuine clue. To punish someone for doing that much depth of research for a puzzle is a really bizarre thing to do.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: It's too much of a coincidence for BP to have included them both for no reason at all. In the days before eBay and Facebook, I guess people still read books. (Yeah, it seem very obscure. But so is Melville's "Pierre". So is Marietta Robusti.) Books? You mean those things with all those tiresome pages? Seriously, if we were talking about two quotes from something that Melville wrote, even one of his lesser-known works like Bartleby the Scrivener, I'd do my best to be open-minded. But "Abroad in America" is really a gift-shop book : it was sold at the National Gallery in DC between 1976-1977, to accompany one specific exhibition of portraits. (Reference: https://www.si.edu/exhibitions/abroad-i ... -1914-5361 ) Yes, the timing lines up with the bicentennial, and yes, the subject matter may well have been of interest to Preiss, but beyond that I just don't see it. I'm okay with obscure references...when things get this obscure, though, that's when I start to use the word "coincidence".

I believe it's unnecessary to have knowledge of the book sources specifically. There seems to be many paths to finding a lead to a treasure site...we just haven't had much luck in all these years.

JamesV wrote:: Books? You mean those things with all those tiresome pages? Seriously, if we were talking about two quotes from something that Melville wrote, even one of his lesser-known works like Bartleby the Scrivener, I'd do my best to be open-minded. But "Abroad in America" is really a gift-shop book : it was sold at the National Gallery in DC between 1976-1977, to accompany one specific exhibition of portraits. (Reference: https://www.si.edu/exhibitions/abroad-i ... -1914-5361 ) Yes, the timing lines up with the bicentennial, and yes, the subject matter may well have been of interest to Preiss, but beyond that I just don't see it. I'm okay with obscure references...when things get this obscure, though, that's when I start to use the word "coincidence". Hoping I have found a few interesting pieces I posted in other V7 thread where I discovered connection between P7V7 involving Mark Twain. Found the grandfather clock in painting is an actual clock Twain gifted to a childhood sweetheart, now sits in Twain museum. I also think I figured out that reference to Hermann Melville is just that, a reference to him personally, and has nothing to do with the quote or book it is from. I have paired both P7V7 and P6V1 to new state/city/park and have worked out strong solves, I also used clue from Japanese translation where Preiss quoted stating there is a number connection to be found between painting/verse. I am presenting P7V7 this week to mayors office asking for further discussion/investigation and told facebook groups would provide solve after either we dig it up or city decides they don't want to pursue. cheers

America Abroad quotes have troubled me too. If you read the preface to the book, it actually notes that the book is obscure and probably only ever to be found on the bookshelf of academics with interest in the subject matter. It doesn't make logical sense to use a quote from it to direct people at a city or location. That seems to be a move that would limit the amount of people able to solve the puzzles to only a handful of academics or friends of academics. The likelihood of these people getting interested in the book would limit it to little-to-no people. Remembering that Priess wanted the puzzles to be solved, making such a move doesn't make sense. I have no doubt that Priess was one of those people who had access to the book. Two almost direct quotes from it? Statistically improbable to have just happened. I think we're coming at the quotes from the wrong angle though. Could they just be "nice lines" that BP liked and reappropriated for his puzzle? That seems most likely to me. So that begs the question... would BP stay true to the city-verse connection (i.e. NOLA for the "soveriegn people"), or would he have thought it OK to use it on a different city? I think the connection as per Abroad in America is the most likely. That would mean that the current consensus on verse-image pairings would be right. What I will say is... I don't think we're using them correctly. Dismissing the line as only a city connection and nothing more would mean that BP would think we'd know about Abroad in America. Without the internet, such a connection would be very difficut to make with an obscure book. I think he's used the quotes to describe something that can be seen on ground, as per all the parts of the verse from the already found casques. This way, if someone did happen across Abroad in America, they wouldn't be led astray, because the book would lead them to the city, and the on-ground evidence would also lead them in the same city. I think we're on the right track for NOLA with the soverign peoples reference, but we should be looking deeper, and maybe use it as I and others have come to the conclusion, to reference the Kings and Queens of Mardi Gras, as these are N.O. sovereign (rulers) people. As for Edwin and Edwina, we may be looking for something like the Edwin and Edwina Harleston who ran a funeral home near Marion Square and were also famous in the Charleston black civil rights movement. Their name woud have been on a shopfront, open for people to see in the public domain.

So, Do you need the quote from Abroad in America to determine that New Orleans is a location. No - there are plenty of other ways to determine that. To land in San Francisco, do you need to determine that Image 1 was based on the Virgin of the Rocks a part of an altarpiece for a chapel in the church of San Francesco Grande in Milan? No - there are plenty of other ways to determine that. To find Grant Park in Chicago, do you need to determine that image 5 was based on the image of Ulyses S. Grant on a $50 bill? No - there are plenty of other ways to determine that. Do we need to find the Hermann Melville quote to be drawn to Hermann Park in Houston No - there are plenty of other ways to determine that. Do you need to find the SELOY anagram to be led to the St Augustine Area? No - there are plenty of other ways to determine that. Do you need to find the quote by Sarimento about the twins Edwin and Edwina born in 1889 to get to Charleston? No - there are plento of other ways to determine that. etc., etc., etc... Are we then to decide that these clues, since they are all obscure and very difficult to find, that they are not really clues at all but simply coincidence or wishful thinking... or maybe we can look across all the verses and images, and determine that yes, BP did indeed include very real, but obscure clues, that are not really necessary to solve the hunt, but do add depth and guidance.

maltedfalcon wrote:: So, Do you need the quote from Abroad in America to determine that New Orleans is a location. No - there are plenty of other ways to determine that. To land in San Francisco, do you need to determine that Image 1 was based on the Virgin of the Rocks a part of an altarpiece for a chapel in the church of San Francesco Grande in Milan? No - there are plenty of other ways to determine that. To find Grant Park in Chicago, do you need to determine that image 5 was based on the image of Ulyses S. Grant on a $50 bill? No - there are plenty of other ways to determine that. Do we need to find the Hermann Melville quote to be drawn to Hermann Park in Houston No - there are plenty of other ways to determine that. Do you need to find the SELOY anagram to be led to the St Augustine Area? No - there are plenty of other ways to determine that. Do you need to find the quote by Sarimento about the twins Edwin and Edwina born in 1889 to get to Charleston? No - there are plento of other ways to determine that. etc., etc., etc... Are we then to decide that these clues, since they are all obscure and very difficult to find, that they are not really clues at all but simply coincidence or wishful thinking... or maybe we can look across all the verses and images, and determine that yes, BP did indeed include very real, but obscure clues, that are not really necessary to solve the hunt, but do add depth and guidance. Hold on a second MF. If all of this is true, wouldn't that mean Horace Walpole's obscure quote containing the words Boston, New York, North, Thucydides and Xenophon could actually help determine a city? Wouldn't that make the Greek names on the Boston Public Library redundant and unnecessary? Let's not get too crazy here, plenty of people here hang their hats on that library... (Sarcasm fully intended.) Side note, excellent post.

Just because something is redundant does not make it unnecessary.

Unknown: Just because something is redundant does not make it unnecessary. Sure it does. That's exactly what the word means.

burnstyle wrote:: Just because something is redundant does not make it unnecessary. There are very few instances where someone uses a verse line for multiple meanings and I don't automatically try to figure out which one is crap. Since I basically agree with everything that Matt said in his post and the Walpole quote fits nicely into his list of obscure writings, it seems to be as good of a connection as the others. It either works or it doesn't. Multiple references to a verse line is not reinforcement. Al least one will turn out to be crap.

UnprovenFact wrote:: ... As I peruse the various posts, I have found in several cases, we can’t seem to definitively say or even sort-of agree which verse connects with which image, or what all of the objects within the Images even are, or what the specific lines of the verses are really referring to, and so on. ... I think the reason we have not solved anything recently, is that we are looking in the wrong places. We have been able to find potential references to various people, places, and things in different cities. We have matched particular lines of verses to some parts of images or to the locations. We have interpreted all of the clues and are so certain of their meaning, and yet we still really don’t know for sure if we are making the right connections. (For example: Edwin clearly refers to San Francisco, therefore Verse 6 is SF. But Verse 7 is SF, and Edwin actually refers to Charleston. Therefore, Verse 6 is Charleston. But verse 5 is Charleston. No, Verse 5 is Roanoke, which really isn’t Roanoke. No, Verse 5 is Canada… Who’s in Canada? I don’t know. Third Base!) Round and round we go. ... I can’t tell if Preiss just got lucky, or if he was truly some kind of evil genius who was able to find a few things that are so specifically-generic, or generically-specific, as to throw us all into this infinite loop of, ‘Yeah, but… No, but… Yeah, but…’ What are the odds that so many possible references are leading to so many different locations and proposed solutions? This could easily be explained if that was his plan all along. If you know you are going to center the searches around parks (or wherever), and you have a basic structure for the verses and a plan for seeking out the clues, you really could go anywhere and make anything fit with seemingly translucent references. And that is exactly what we are doing. ... This is not necessarily Image 7 or Verse 7 or New Orleans-specific, but we are here, and MF’s post got me thinking.. again. (Also, had to quote myself a bit here. Seemed easier than retyping.) … That said, here is my point to this new post: As for why there are so many obscure references that seem to get us nowhere, maybe they are not so obscure. Rather, they are just not necessarily references that everyone would, will, should or could understand. Because this is not how everyone thinks. Preiss was, by most accounts, a very intelligent, well-read person. One may have considered him “book-smart” if you will. However, he had to have known that, perhaps, some of the readers of this particular book were not quite at his level. And yet, some would be. So, if he really wanted to draw in a wide range of readers, he would have needed to make it enjoyable for all types of people – with varying degrees of intelligence and understanding of concepts and literary references. While some hear a few words in a line of a Verse and know it to be a quote from a letter written by a famous historical figure, others are saying “What the hell is a wall pole?” Other readers may catch on to some of the local references, because they live there and can relate directly to the Image and Verse without having to spend hours in a library researching. Everybody learns, reads, moves at their own speed and would be able to interpret the clues differently, and they could still end up in the same place. Likely, the pairings can be made and the treasures found without ALL of the lines and without identifying ALL of the individual items in the overall Image. This could be why we still don’t know what some of the lines and images are referring to in the puzzles that have already been solved. And it was designed that way to give everyone a chance. You like ciphers? Here is an acrostic. Books? Historical stuff? Here are some quotes and junk. You just like walking around your neighborhood and looking at all the pretty colors? Well, good luck… You get the point. I mean he didn’t title the book “The Secret: A Treasure Hunt.. for Mensa Members Only”