I couldn't find any old thread where we're collecting the media coverage of our little hunt. (I'm not afraid to start a new topic, so there!) Recent online article about the San Francisco digs "A treasure Hunt for the Ages" on Medium.com (you can read 3 articles per month for free or sign in)

Forest started one halfway through this thread. (He didn't dare start his own thread like you catherwood.) viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1165

Some people just want to watch the world burn, WR.

forest_blight wrote:: Some people just want to watch the world burn Fair enough. I was thinking more about recent coverage of the revival, not really the original promotions, but I can see how coverage of the successful digs of the past would qualify for *this* thread. I'm sure I objected to the ambiguity of that "internet resources" thread being a repository of tools to help our research rather than all internet-available reports about this challenge. TV news reports would go here, not there, for example. So, carry on, post whatever whereever. We'll all muddle through somehow.

I'm kidding, catherwood. I used to bemoan the creation of new threads because it cluttered our tidy little workspace. But now I don't care because I've mellowed with age. And because Josh has already found all the casques anyway.

Unknown: We'll all muddle through somehow. Fear not CW. This is all pretty much braying at the moon and jockeying for position. If anything truly significant happens, I guarantee you that as long as I'm around (and I am all in) it will find it's way to the top of the Forum.

Here is a copy of the November 1982 article from Heavy Metal Magazine. https://imgur.com/hRND7WE https://imgur.com/bdVZry4 https://imgur.com/WUaPo90 And an image of Jo-Ellens cover from January 1979 (which wont help at all but is cool non the less) https://imgur.com/FL9fgYB

Can someone post info or link to the podcast? I keep hearing it being referenced but haven’t been able to find using Alexa or apple podcast services.

jayheedan1 wrote:: Can someone post info or link to the podcast? I keep hearing it being referenced but haven’t been able to find using Alexa or apple podcast services. hxxp://12treasures.com https://www.listennotes.com/podcasts/shhh-the-secret-podcast-john-and-george-vC147sch206/ https://itunes.apple.com/us/podcast/shhh-the-secret/id1319433512?mt=2

jayheedan1 wrote:: Can someone post info or link to the podcast? I keep hearing it being referenced but haven’t been able to find using Alexa or apple podcast services. Also can be found at: https://player.fm/series/series-2140075

Here is a 2000 video interview with Byron Preiss via Cspan regarding electronic publishing. There is no mention of The Secret, but it's still interesting to watch. He was really ahead of his time. It's the first interview, right at the beginning of the piece. https://www.c-span.org/video/?160896-1/ ... shing-expo

nice one.

The Stanford Alumni magazine recently ran an article. I don't have it to link, because I'm not a Stanford alumni. That's how good of a sleuth I am.

drunknerds wrote:: The Stanford Alumni magazine recently ran an article. I don't have it to link, because I'm not a Stanford alumni. That's how good of a sleuth I am. It was the starting post to this thread. At least, I assume Medium.com is reprinting the same article, or the Alumni mag reprinted it from Medium. Either way, same content? (sorry i didn't identify it in my post)

Two more articles from yesteryear... Publisher's Weekly, Oct. 1, 1982: Publisher's Weekly, Oct. 8, 1982:

From The Washington Post, June 13, 1982: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/wapo.061382.pdf

St Louis Post Dispatch, 25 Oct 1982... "Off and on for nine months this year, I traveled this country and Canada, hiding the stuff." "The stones that are worth the most will be the hardest to find." Casques buried in 1982... check At least 1 buried in Canada... check Descriptions of almost getting caught matches with Japanese translation... check

so......after reading everything, all you can came up was "check" and not "why"? with all the materials , after all these years, no questions?

Unknown: after all these years, no questions What questions do you have?

Spiritr wrote:: so......after reading everything, all you can came up was "check" and not "why"? with all the materials , after all these years, no questions? This article has been published on other forums so the vets here have seen it before, not groundbreaking news. Just posted it for some of the newcomers as well as put it in this thread. I have read posts where people don’t seem to get the right timeframe (1980, 1981, 1982) or how long it took to go around and bury them... I have read and heard people say that there is not one in Canada... This article answers all of those questions Me? Have questions? Please point me to someone in this forum who doesn’t.

Unknown: I have read posts where people don’t seem to get the right timeframe (1980, 1981, 1982) or how long it took to go around and bury them... Do you think this article is the definitive word on those issues? Or just another data point on a very flexible narrative?

One of my questions is was a news article/press release done in every casque city when the book came out? On that secret podcast the finders heard about the book in the first place was from a press release, can’t think that a treasure book of this nature would have been hot news back in the day. Probably why it never took off and other casques weren’t found, (low sales / interest?). I can see BP reaching out to these cities in particular, but could as well have sent out a mass letter chain to newspapers/mags to see what stuck. Anyone in the Montreal area know it anything was released in one of the local papers there?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Do you think this article is the definitive word on those issues? Or just another data point on a very flexible narrative? Well, looking at the article printed in Oct 1982 where BP was quoted as saying, "Off and on for nine months this year, I traveled this country and Canada, hiding the stuff.” That would lock down a time frame to maybe late 1981 - early/mid 1982. Nine months this year could have meant Jan-Sep 1982. All depends on time from when interview took place to time article was printed. Definitely not 1980 as I have read. He also mentioned traveling to Canada... Definitive? Based on the hard fact printed evidence, I would say so. Could he have been misquoted? Absolutely. But from what we know and what has been researched over the years, I would say it lines up pretty well.

Unknown: Based on the hard fact printed evidence, I would say so. Depending on which source you use, getting the casques into the ground took a week (what he told Andy and Brian), several months (Chicago Tribune, 11/16/82), or nine months (St. Louis Post Dispatch, 10/25/82). It's just more evidence that when it came to revealing anything about the methodology, Preiss was very careful to not give anything, no matter how minor, away.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: What questions do you have? too much image 5, why? are these clues? too much coincidence don't you think? ok, look at the time line, these are all advertisements before the book was published, - St.Louis Post 10/25/1982 - Verse 2 / Image 5 - Heavy Mag 11/1982 - Image 4 / Image 5 - Radio broadcast, magazine ads and posters showing the book, the cask, and a screaming Mimi, advertisements throughout North America until 1983. - the book was published 11/1982 Image 11 used as cover - Chicago Tribune, 11/16/1982 last paragraph , " If I should die - get hit by a truck or something - one person has been instructed to open the directions of the remaining treasures. " - the book was published in Japan 5/1983 Image 11 as cover, renamed "Fairy's Treasure Box" (contains hints on the Verses) - 8/1983 1st casque found, Image 5 , Chicago, paired with Verse 12 - 8/1983 the group of 3 were interviewed on 4:30 ABC7 News - 12/1983 Japanese 2nd edition published, Image 5 used as cover, renamed "Secret" - 2004 2nd Casque found in Cleveland, using Image 4/ Verse 4 - 7/9/2005

I'm glad those articles sparked discussion. My university just upgraded its library search capabilities, so I took it for a spin. Here are a few more, and each is related to The Secret in one way or another. The filenames contain the dates of publication. None are contemporary with the book's publication, as you'll see, but they are still fun. Happy reading: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/the.record.bergen.co.071804b.pdf hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/the.record.bergen.co.071804.pdf hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/the.record.bergen.co.092504.pdf hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/book.mag.0303.pdf hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/nytimes.111592b.pdf hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/nytimes.111404.pdf hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/tca.011618.pdf hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/njlj.062804.pdf

Scrappy929 wrote:: I don't know...personally, I'd be hesitant to accept this statement as fact, since it's a marketing interview which was held to promote/sell more copies of The Secret. "I alone traveled the country and Canada, taking a six-foot-shovel through airport security, hiding from police in clever disguises, often under cover of darkness, like an armchair treasure hunting ninja...etc." Sounds pretty exciting, but was that really what happened, or did BP stretch the truth a little to create more buzz? I'm open to a lot of options about what really happened, including the possibility that other people may have buried some of these casques, or that BP *gasp* got permission to hide a casque in some places. I've got some doubts about the timeline, too, since this sounds like an ambitious travel schedule for only nine months. The podcast interview with sculptor Jo-Ellen Trilling helped to shed a lot of light on the logistics involved in building this hunt, though.

This article really hits the nail on the head. https://www.freepresshouston.com/youll- ... mann-park/

Unknown: This article really hits the nail on the head. Money quote: "Believe me, I tried (in a lazy kind of way)." Perfect.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Money quote: "Believe me, I tried (in a lazy kind of way)." Perfect. Quite the cherry picker,,,arent ya.

Unknown: Quite the cherry picker Not really. "Cherry picking" implies that I selected the best stuff. In this case, I only selected the relevant stuff. The rest (and it's only 1,200 words so everyone, as always, is encouraged to make up their own mind), is a lightly researched, poorly written, mildly funny opinion piece by someone hardly qualified to render any kind of informed opinion on the puzzle.

Niiiiice!

there are radio ads too, but all I have is the scripts, no audio files. also noticed a "G" inside the "C"? It appears like that in all other posters as well, I have another one just like this in blue, but the resolution is horrible on that one, but you can clearly see a "dot" in the "C"

It would be very cool if you could share the scripts. How do you find this stuff?

I'm sorry but by law, I can't, without permission from the entities,

Spiritr wrote:: there are radio ads too, but all I have is the scripts, no audio files. also noticed a "G" inside the "C"? It appears like that in all other posters as well, I have another one just like this in blue, but the resolution is horrible on that one, but you can clearly see a "dot" in the "C" Obviously the Masons were involved!

Cross-posting to announce a reair of "that" episode of "Expedition Unknown" tonight (Sept.11) on the Travel Channel. It is one of their "enhanced" episodes, so the title is now "Extra Finds: The Secret" airing at 9pm Eastern.

Any possibility the station would keep recordings from back then? It also ran again on 01 Nov 1982, same time & channel. Probably not an actual clue reveal, more likely was a generic talk about the puzzles. When was the actual release date of The Secret? Was it Nov 1982?

Sean Kelly, native of Montreal... "The story now is that 300 years ago the Fair People - fairies, goblins and other fantastic creatures - fled the Old World for the New. Then, as North America became populated, they disappeared, but not before burying 12 treasures around the continent, especially in major book buying markets. " "Bantam officials wanted to remove the Canadian fairies but he was adamant and the sales people relented when they recalled the size of the Canadian market." Interesting...

I thought it was a marketing mistake to make the quest so dark and ominous with fairies and dungeons and dragons and occult laden type of imagery. The whole dungeons/ fairy market in the 80's was in style and underground for a flash. But the pictures and book itself being mildly occult, not what some people want in their houses. He should have just lightened it up for the masses and made the casks easier to find. Every time the casks were found, they got lots of free publicity, some national. As a result new people were interested. Otherwise the book had no on-going major market publicity. He should have let them be found and then done a series of "The Secret" treasure hunts. The first series (this one) could have been a bit easier, to gain public interest. The harry potter market was more kid friendly. Thus it was only slightly dark, but took off to a wider audience.

funsun wrote:: I thought it was a marketing mistake to make the quest so dark and ominous with fairies and dungeons and dragons and occult laden type of imagery. The whole dungeons/ fairy market in the 80's was in style and underground for a flash. But the pictures and book itself being mildly occult, not what some people want in their houses. He should have just lightened it up for the masses and made the casks easier to find. Every time the casks were found, they got lots of free publicity, some national. As a result new people were interested. Otherwise the book had no on-going major market publicity. He should have let them be found and then done a series of "The Secret" treasure hunts. The first series (this one) could have been a bit easier, to gain public interest. The harry potter market was more kid friendly. Thus it was only slightly dark, but took off to a wider audience. "The masses" would probably have not been interested. Fantasy and science fiction had not yet gone mainstream, and geekiness was not yet cool. BP knew how to market to the comic book and fantasy/science fiction markets, and that's where his successes were, especially with Dragonworld. As a geeky young teen in the early 1980's, I was square in the demographic for The Secret, which probably ranged from age 14 to 28 or so. Another big change has been a huge upswing in hand-wringing over anything deemed occult -- not that there wasn't any in the early 1980s, but there seems to be a much bigger and more vocal group worried about that sort of thing these days, amplified by the Internet. Harry Potter started off light and kid-friendly in the first book, but really didn't stay that way through the series.

Well they say times are different, “the occult” is becoming more mainstream. In Indiana, a Satanic cult adopted a highway and the Arkansas capital is getting its own Minument to Satan. https://www.indystar.com/story/news/201 ... 778550002/ https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/chris ... -building2 Any images in BPs the secret holds no candle to these contesters.

jayheedan1 wrote:: Well they say times are different, “the occult” is becoming more mainstream. In Indiana, a Satanic cult adopted a highway and the Arkansas capital is getting its own Minument to Satan. https://www.indystar.com/story/news/201 ... 778550002/ https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/chris ... -building2 Any images in BPs the secret holds no candle to these contesters. Reading the 'Adopt a Highway' story, it turns out that they're actually atheists with libertarian beliefs....not too much of the occult contained there (besides their claim of being members of the 'Satanic Temple', in order to make a statement and garner attention.) But...I see your point, regarding society and what's acceptable, changing over time... =]

The pop-occult of the early 1980's was New Age: crystals, fairies, unicorns, channeling, reincarnation, nothing really dark at all. Lighthearted "happy" occult, mostly coming out of California.

Michael Green's Unicornis.

**removed link....same as catherwood's, following this post. Cross posted from image 9....media coverage link from spinner.

new article 'A real-life Da Vinci Code': Treasure hunters think a 36-year secret may be buried in Forest Park (they're looking in St.Louis, MO) https://www.stltoday.com/news/local/met ... 1f5ba.html (sorry, duplicate, good job!) -- btw, i removed tracking tags from the URL

in 2016 a Korean TV show aired a segment about the secret. I uploaded the clip here: hxxp://12treasures.com/media-2/ Fun fact. According to the Koreans, Byron was inspired by Hitler to create this hunt.

burnstyle wrote:: in 2016 a Korean TV show aired a segment about 'The Secret'. What a coincidence! That's "Mysterious TV Surprise" (not Mystic) on my TiVo guide, or "Extreme Surprise" on their segment title cards -- I only recently stumbled into their rabbithole of bizarre stories and am now queueing them all. Just this week, I learned about a Nazi coin from the future dated 2039 found in Mexico, and a lost cavern discovered in China which had also been featured on "Ancient Aliens" that week as well. Yes, I watch the most stupid shows for mindless entertainment, but sometimes they are literal gems.

catherwood wrote:: What a coincidence! That's "Mysterious TV Surprise" (not Mystic) on my TiVo guide, or "Extreme Surprise" on their segment title cards -- I only recently stumbled into their rabbithole of bizarre stories and am now queueing them all. Just this week, I learned about a Nazi coin from the future dated 2039 found in Mexico, and a lost cavern discovered in China which had also been featured on "Ancient Aliens" that week as well. Yes, I watch the most stupid shows for mindless entertainment, but sometimes they are literal gems. Are they all like this? If so I will definitely need to binge watch them lol.

Forest_Blight found this uncropped image fo the Roanoke painting in an art magazine from 1993 https://12treasures.com/wp-content/uplo ... /scan2.jpg https://12treasures.com/wp-content/uplo ... /scan3.jpg https://12treasures.com/wp-content/uplo ... /scan4.jpg https://12treasures.com/wp-content/uplo ... /scan5.jpg https://12treasures.com/wp-content/uplo ... /scan6.jpg https://12treasures.com/wp-content/uplo ... /scan7.jpg

Worry not, all -- a better scan of Medieval Scarecrow is forthcoming in a few days.

JamesV wrote:: More activity to report from the Charleston search, although it looks like the news reporters were unclear on the Image/Verse pairing: https://www.postandcourier.com/news/dis ... 73982.html reposting this to have all press articles together. "Discovery Channel team to dig up Charleston’s White Point Garden in search of buried key " (also, i stripped the session ID from the original link)

Meanwhile, the Charleston verse includes: “White stone closest/At twelve paces/From the west side/Get permission/To dig out.” from article

Doghousereiley wrote:: Meanwhile, the Charleston verse includes: “White stone closest/At twelve paces/From the west side/Get permission/To dig out.” from article The reporter is using JamesV's solve article for his info. JamesV uses that verse at the fort in Charleston.

Does anybody have a better date or timeframe for this dig? I may know someone who will also be in the area "Early next month" who might want to check it out.

UnprovenFact wrote:: Does anybody have a better date or timeframe for this dig? I may know someone who will also be in the area "Early next month" who might want to check it out. I doubt the production company wants people hanging around. Something tells me they will block off the area for filming.

For anybody in Northeast Ohio that is interested in seeing John Palencar's work, the Opening Reception at the Canton Museum of Art is May 3, 2019 from 5PM - 8PM. His exhibit,John Jude Palencar: Between Worlds, will be there May 3, 2019 - July 21, 2019. https://www.cantonart.org/node/5518

Found a wonderful article in the (Cleveland) Plain Dealer Magazine from Dec. 19, 1982. Lots of good information here. The image quality is terrible; I'm working on finding a full-color scan or original. If I do, I'll be back to update this. Enjoy! Viewable at either of these locations: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/plain.dealer.121982.pdf https://12treasures.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/plain.dealer.121982.pdf

forest_blight wrote:: Found a wonderful article in the (Cleveland) Plain Dealer Magazine from Dec. 19, 1982. Lots of good information here. From the article: "Luck is not involved; the logic in determining the locations of the chest is not random. There is, according to Preiss, an interlocking set of patterns. " This, to me, is incredible interesting.

idyl wrote:: "Luck is not involved; the logic in determining the locations of the chest is not random. There is, according to Preiss, an interlocking set of patterns. " This, to me, is incredible interesting. That's the line that stood out to me as well. Interlocking... suggesting that there is some repetition to methodologies (maybe only the flower, clock and stone, but maybe also more like the dress frontice of SF and Boston...) Love the idea that there is logic in the solves, and it's not just a random series of stuff. Makes me believe more and more in the idea that the verses shouldn't be rearranged, especially without being told to do so... Hmmm.... XdM

Hmmm... maybe that 421 guy isnt suck a jackass. Hmmm.... maybe he is telling the truth.

Before we get carried away, I don't think this article tells us any new information, really. We already know the clues interlock. Still, the bombshell clue about coffee at Denny's, coupled with the moons in P1, clearly communicate that there is a casque buried in My Hammy.

forest_blight wrote:: Before we get carried away, I don't think this article tells us any new information, really. Oh, ffs. @Renovator - Can we start the effing deluge already? I am sooooooo ready.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Oh, ffs. @Renovator - Can we start the effing deluge already? I am sooooooo ready. Go. Go. Go!!!!!

I find it interesting that it specifically mentions 11 casques in the US and 1 in Canada. That statement may upset some Canada casque antis.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Hmmm... maybe that 421 guy isnt suck a jackass. Hmmm.... maybe he is telling the truth. John Michaels already took credit for most of it and it's just not that exciting. I give you and Reno a ton of credit for the time and effort put into all that you've done. I've great respect for both of you. At this point, your best bet is to put it all out there and let others form their respective opinions. You'll gain some followers and get some likes but I have a sneaking suspicion that it won't end up being the culmination of The Secret theories that you'd hoped for. I for one will listen without bias and be critical with logic. Isn't it time to either let the cat out of the bag or stop the conceited, "when are you going to understand that we are the only ones who are right" posts?

GoldenMartyr wrote:: John Michaels already took credit for most of it and it's just not that exciting. GoldenMartyr wrote:: At this point, your best bet is to put it all out there and let others form their respective opinions. You'll gain some followers and get some likes but I have a sneaking suspicion that it won't end up being the culmination of The Secret theories that you'd hoped for. GoldenMartyr wrote:: Isn't it time to either let the cat out of the bag or stop the conceited, "when are you going to understand that we are the only ones who are right" posts? Hirudiniforme wrote:: Alternative interpretations aren't a thrashing. I ain't thrashing anybody. I am just optimistic that somebody will eventually catch on that subjectivity is pointless when you have billions of square feet that MIGHT contain a casque. Then the real fun can start. Lulz. He had nothing but a bunch of macguffins, he just didn't know it. What's funny is it was literally the day after he effed everything up that Renovator and I had the epiphany. There will be no opinions to form. It is what it is. I don't want followers, I want good people to have the casques. Don't kid yourself. There is no conceit. Renovator and I have made it very clear that all we are trying to do is help. I said it the other day...

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Don't kid yourself. There is no conceit. Renovator and I have made it very clear that all we are trying to do is help. I said it the other day... Given the (admittedly very limited) conversations we have had. I actually believe this. But I dont think they way you are going about trying to help people is actually helping. It's just confusing people who listen and sending them off of odd tangents. In the same way... there was a podcast episode where jm was talking about the lit reference list (you know the one). It wasnt understood, or explained very well... and ended up just confusing everyone to the point where people matching quotes from books and songs just because they happened to share one or two words with the verse. The mtl verse vs. That one poet who said something about a bird without wings in the mtl podcast immediately comes to mind.

And while it's not your fault that people are stupid, you cant blame others for lumping you into that group, when that's what the guidence generally leads to.

burnstyle wrote:: Given the (admittedly very limited) conversations we have had. I actually believe this. But I dont think they way you are going about trying to help people is actually helping. It's just confusing people who listen and sending them off of odd tangents. I appreciate that, burnstyle.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Don't kid yourself. There is no conceit. Renovator and I have made it very clear that all we are trying to do is help. I said it the other day... *edited with some quote due to the comments in between my reply. Well, in that case, I wish you the best of luck and look forward to the random, "You don't know what you are talking about" comment, with zero context. I'm not sure which is worse, the individual with the dumbest idea on the planet, screaming at the top of his lungs to look,look I'm right or the intelligent person that claims to have it all figured out but cannot tell because we are not yet worth. We'll probably never know which but I still hold out hope that someday we will all learn if JM taught you everything you know or the reverse is true.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: I still hold out hope that someday we will all learn if JM taught you everything you know or the reverse is true.

This is starting to feel a lot like Fyre Festival.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: if JM taught you everything you know or the reverse is true.

forest_blight wrote:: Found a wonderful article in the (Cleveland) Plain Dealer Magazine from Dec. 19, 1982. Lots of good information here. The image quality is terrible; I'm working on finding a full-color scan or original. If I do, I'll be back to update this. Enjoy! Viewable at either of these locations: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/plain.dealer.121982.pdf https://12treasures.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/plain.dealer.121982.pdf Does anyone wonder why the Cleveland Plain Dealer? In my entire life I have read two article from this paper and both have to do with the secret Never heard of it before. but there was a casque in Cleveland Byron also did an interview with Chicago Tribune on 11/16/82 He also did interviews for St Louis Dispatch 10/25/82. and he told Johann he was right about St Louis.

Doghousereiley wrote:: and he told Johann he was right about St Louis. He responded to Johann, You are right about St Louis but not about the location. Johann refused to share the email that Byron responded to. Given that info there are a couple of viable scenarios here.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: This is starting to feel a lot like Fyre Festival. To be fair, you haven't seen reality yet. Not to mention, the Rule that founded my festival is much more reliable.

Doghousereiley wrote:: words. Well, the second was self explanatory. The first I imagine was because the books artist was a local. There were other articles as well, in other places. Just not as big as this one.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: He responded to Johann, You are right about St Louis but not about the location. Johann refused to share the email that Byron responded to. Given that info there are a couple of viable scenarios here. Johann told me on the phone in may of 2019 that he sent Byron Priess an email with a St Louis solution to specific dig spot in Tower park. He remember it was near the Shakespeare statue. Johann said that only received one email from Byron Priess What are the viable scenarios?

Doghousereiley wrote:: What are the viable scenarios? Dear Byron, St. Louis is a beautiful city, I believe the casque is buried in tower park. Love, Johann To be honest, his unwillingness to share the context of the email speaks volumes about how much stock should be put into St Louis.

burnstyle wrote:: Dear Byron, St. Louis is a beautiful city, I believe the casque is buried in tower park. Love, Johann To be honest, his unwillingness to share the context of the email speaks volumes about how much stock should be put into St Louis. Yeah basically. but add next to Shakespeare statue and remove the commentary about a beautiful city Did Johann say he was unwilling to share with you? The post I read on Q4T he offered to send to anyone who wanted to see it. Brian Zinn and Fox even responded to that post. Thread image 10 date May11, 2004 Re: image 10 Postby johann » Tue May 11, 2004 7:15 pm This pic is one of my candidates for St. Louis. Byron Preiss told me in an e-mail, after I submitted a very impressive and wrong solution, that there is a St. Louis treasure. I kept the e-mail and can send it to anyone who gives me an e-mail address. (I am bad with computers and do not know how to post the e-mail here.) If you search Johanns posts (which I have up right now) you will see many times he relates the question he sent to Byron and the response. Johann seems to be the first one to hypothesize St Louis Cathedral in New Orleans He does not seem unwilling or confused about what Byron wrote. He does debate the meaning. as do we all. So I am confused. are you making a joke? I dont see how Johann was unwilling to share at all. HE WAS ONE WHO FOUND CLEVELAND CASQUE SITE. with Sooner Fan too Re: image 4 Postby johann » Fri Apr 02, 2004 11:58 am I am currently negotiating with my wife about getting to Cleveland. She does have a digital camera, and that also may take some negotiation. I'm going to do what I can. I am still curious about that branches in the lower left of the picture, or any other little details. --Johann Brian Zinn just got to the spot first. Per Cleveland Plain Dealer article with Brian Zinn

I get he found Cleveland, but he has, as far as i know, not shared with anyone the email he sent byron. He only shared the email byron sent him in return. Did he tell byron "st Louis is beautiful, here's my dig spot" to which byron essentially replied: "your right it is a beautiful city, but the casque isnt there" We will never know that, because we cant put the email in context. There are a few things that kind of support st Louis, but until we get context, this isnt one of them. I also understand Johann was well respected and generally open and honest, but this is a big thing, and his unwillingness to share the first email puts an unessecery shadow over the response.

burnstyle wrote:: I get he found Cleveland, but he has, as far as i know, not shared with anyone the email he sent byron. He only shared the email byron sent him in return. Did he tell byron "st Louis is beautiful, here's my dig spot" to which byron essentially replied: "your right it is a beautiful city, but the casque isnt there" We will never know that, because we cant put the email in context. There are a few things that kind of support st Louis, but until we get context, this isnt one of them. I also understand Johann was well respected and generally open and honest, but this is a big thing, and his unwillingness to share the first email puts an unessecery shadow over the response. Johann shared with me exactly what he wrote to Byron Priess. I am sure he would share it with you Did you ask him? He doesn't have the original email. I get it. I dont have any emails from 2003 either. or any from before 2014 or so He moved jobs/servers as a professor he now has a new .edu address I dont get how Johann is accused of unwilling to share. Search his 477 posts and he is sharing info with anyone while he was active. You dont have to accept the facts Byron said. and you dont have to believe me about what Johann told me the email said. But it is the truth. Ignoring the facts doesn't make them go away and make them untrue. and if you repeat untruths that doesn't make them anymore correct.

[quote="burnstyle"]I get he found Cleveland, but he has, as far as i know, not shared with anyone the email he sent byron. He only shared the email byron sent him in return. Did he tell byron "st Louis is beautiful, here's my dig spot" to which byron essentially replied: "your right it is a beautiful city, but the casque isnt there" We will never know that, because we cant put the email in context. Ask the new Facebook moderator Forest Blight. He got a copy of the email and he asked about the spelling. Does Preacher still have a copy? Please read these post before accusing someone of willing suppressing information. Ignore the facts if you want Read the posts by Johann Re: verse 2 Postby johann » Wed Sep 12, 2007 8:26 pm I extensively explored Tower Grove Park years ago. In fact, it was my solution that I emailed to BP. He said I was correct in thinking St. Louis, but I had the wrong location. Did he mean the wrong park or the wrong spot in Tower Grove Park? I don't know. I never counted the stones in the mock ruins, but perhaps I should try that. I used to live down the street from the park and would go there often. Re: image 9 Postby johann » Sat Nov 01, 2008 9:04 pm I would kine to find a legeater here in St. Louis. My first theory (which BP rejected) was at the Shakespeare statue in Tower Grove Park. THIS IS RESPONSE TO FOREST BLIGHT who appears to have received a copy of the email Re: General Questions Postby forest_blight » Wed Jun 07, 2006 1:14 pm Two questions: 1. Is this a copy and paste of the original, misspellings and all? 2. What was the "location" in question (so we can rule it out)? "...it may well be doubted whether human ingenuity can construct an enigma of the kind which human ingenuity may not, by proper application, resolve." Image Re: General Questions Postby johann » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:29 pm Yes, that is how the email from BP appeared. It was obviously some time ago. I would love to have us work hard on the St. Louis idea. Honestly, I am stumped on St. Louis. I originally thought it was in Tower Grove Park on Grand Blvd. in South St. Louis. I pinpointed an exact patch of ground. So, when BP told me it was not the correct location, did he mean not that patch of Tower Grove Park or not Tower Grove Park at all? I don't know. I have worked much on a Forest Park theory, as outlined in a couple pic and verse threads, but my digging has turned up naught but dirt. Alas.

So just to be clear there more than 3 posts where Johann say he emailed Byron Priess an exact spot near the Shakespeare statue in Tower Grove Park You have seen the response What are you exactly unsure about what the email said? What are the viable scenarios for ... MR Priess. I think a casque is buried in St Louis Tower Park by the Shakespeare statute Just as Johann states in his Q4T posts The reply "Very impressive work esp since the book is 20 years old. I think you deserve to know that you are correct about st. Louid,but not correct about the location.thanks for all your excellent work." Twist it how you want

burnstyle wrote:: Well, the second was self explanatory. The first I imagine was because the books artist was a local. There were other articles as well, in other places. Just not as big as this one. Others beside St Louis and Chicago?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: To be fair, you haven't seen reality yet. Not to mention, the Rule that founded my festival is much more reliable. DELUGE! DELUGE! DELUGE! https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/11 ... QFEZ6h.jpg

burnstyle wrote:: I get he found Cleveland, but he has, as far as i know, not shared with anyone the email he sent byron. He only shared the email byron sent him in return. Did he tell byron "st Louis is beautiful, here's my dig spot" to which byron essentially replied: "your right it is a beautiful city, but the casque isnt there" We will never know that, because we cant put the email in context. YEs we do know that Just read the posts on Q4T by Johann.

If I were to tell you I emailed JJp and told him my solution to one puzzle was in a park in eugene Oregon, and he told me I was right about Eugene but wrong about the location... then I refused to show you what I said about eugene, you wouldnt believe me either. You would want to see the email I sent him. Like I said. There is some evidence for st Louis, but without context, this email is not part of that evidence.

Doghousereiley wrote:: Ask the new Facebook moderator Forest Blight. He got a copy of the email and he asked about the spelling. Does Preacher still have a copy? Doghousereiley wrote:: THIS IS RESPONSE TO FOREST BLIGHT who appears to have received a copy of the email For the record, I never saw the original e-mail that johann sent to Preiss that led to the ambiguous response. It would be extremely valuable to find that e-mail. My hazy memory is that johann looked for, but could not find, the message and could not remember exactly what question he put to Preiss.

burnstyle wrote:: If I were to tell you I emailed JJp and told him my solution to one puzzle was in a park in eugene Oregon, and he told me I was right about Eugene but wrong about the location... then I refused to show you what I said about eugene, you wouldnt believe me either. You would want to see the email I sent him. Like I said. There is some evidence for st Louis, but without context, this email is not part of that evidence. You and I have gone over it before about Houston. So now you flipped. I asked what wilhouse wrote to Byron priest and what was response. I said I didnt want to dig the spot where Byron told wilhouse it wasn't YOU TOLD ME I HAVE NO RIGHT TO ASK AND WILHOUSE HAS NO OBLIGATION TO SHARE Yet you believe wilhouses email from Bryon about Houston? Did you read any of wilhouses original emails? They ones he would not give me? Are you UNWILLING TO SHARE. Wilhouse is unwilling to share. You told me I was wrong for asking and he was right for not sharing How are you any different concerning Johann You seem to be a hypocrite ignoring the facts. Yet you dont believe Johann. CHERRY PICK THE FACTS man. and Ignore the Q4T posts. and you kinda sound pathetic with your beautiful city argument. he didn't say that. no proof he did but there are posts detailing what Johann wrote search the posts. up in the upper right corner is a box. it says search. type in Johann and read PS. I would believe you if you SHOWED me an email from Byron Priess and then told me what you email said. I would like to see it but I would believe you I believe Wilhouse when he said Byron sent him an email. I have not seen the any of his sent messages. but I believe them. It is obvious you can't make a blind man see

Read the posts Image 10 verse 7 St Louis Tower Grove park near Shakespeare statue this is what I gather from Johanns posts as to what he wrote Byron Priess I called Johann in MAY 2019 and SPOKE WITH HIM ON THE PHONE He confirmed that was the solution email he wrote Priess BUT I KNOW YOU WONT BELIEVE ME IF I TOLD YOU

DHR - Damn, you get really angry about old emails. I think I was the one who told you that Mark didn't owe you anything. He doesn't and everybody knows he was digging in the former Children's Zoo. All I was trying to say regarding the Johann dialogue was, without context(the original email) there is some ambiguity there. We all shared pretty openly back then and there would have been no reason to hide his solution and email. I always remember thinking it was odd that he left what he sent out. No big deal, that guy was a gem, without him Brian would have been scratching his head looking at Philly. It was seriously a fun time to be involved in the Q4T discussions.

We simply don't have johann's original e-mail -- it's that simple. The only reason we know about it at all is because Brian kept a copy of BP's reply, which johann had sent him earlier. I would give a lot to see johann's e-mail to BP. The specific wording of that e-mail is the critical issue, because that is what determines the meaning of BP's response.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: DHR - Damn, you get really angry about old emails. I think I was the one who told you that Mark didn't owe you anything. He doesn't and everybody knows he was digging in the former Children's Zoo. All I was trying to say regarding the Johann dialogue was, without context(the original email) there is some ambiguity there. We all shared pretty openly back then and there would have been no reason to hide his solution and email. I always remember thinking it was odd that he left what he sent out. No big deal, that guy was a gem, without him Brian would have been scratching his head looking at Philly. It was seriously a fun time to be involved in the Q4T discussions. mark doesn't owe me anything. so you are the hypocrite. you knock Johann for not posting and then praise wilhosue for doing the same. I am sure you believe wilhouse without seeing his original emails he sent to Byron. Because that is okay for wilhouse. But dont believe Johann???? I asked to see the original emails from wilhouse and was told rather rudely by you and other I have no right to ask. I guess you are Q4T Police Golden Martyr. You have been on since late 2018. I believe the interactions I am referring was way before then. So you were not the person you claim to be

Doghousereiley wrote:: Golden Martyr. You have been on since late 2018. I believe the interactions I am referring was way before then. So you were not the person you claim to be You are delusional man, I am knocking nobody. I treat everybody with the same disrespect! I am Fenix's evil twin.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: You are delusional man, I am knocking nobody. I treat everybody with the same disrespect! I am Fenix's evil twin. Delusional? please explain

GoldenMartyr wrote:: I am Fenix's evil twin. oh. that explains the petty bickering on page 5 of this thread

Doghousereiley wrote:: Delusional? please explain de·lu·sion·al /dəˈlo͞oZH(ə)nəl/ Learn to pronounce adjective adjective: delusional characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder. "hospitalization for schizophrenia and delusional paranoia" based on or having faulty judgment; mistaken. "their delusional belief in the project's merits never wavers" I'm going to kill you with kindness and go with the "mistaken" definition today. As in "You are mistaken man, I am knocking nobody. I treat everybody with the same disrespect!"

GoldenMartyr wrote:: de·lu·sion·al /dəˈlo͞oZH(ə)nəl/ Learn to pronounce adjective adjective: delusional characterized by or holding idiosyncratic beliefs or impressions that are contradicted by reality or rational argument, typically as a symptom of mental disorder. "hospitalization for schizophrenia and delusional paranoia" based on or having faulty judgment; mistaken. "their delusional belief in the project's merits never wavers" I'm going to kill you with kindness and go with the "mistaken" definition today. As in "You are mistaken man, I am knocking nobody. I treat everybody with the same disrespect!" I have a hard time telling if you are joking My belief is not contradicted by reality or rational argument. It is in fact supported by facts from my previous posts. I feel it is you who have failed to explain why St Louis is not a viable option when the email said St Louis Tower Park near Shakespeare statue image 10 verse 7 reply is you are argh about st Louis but not about the location Why dont you contact Johann and ask him yourself before you discount it? Do a little research before you amok an opinion Why do people make simple things so complicated?

Doghousereiley wrote:: Why do people make simple things so complicated? Doghousereiley wrote:: St Louis Tower Park near Shakespeare statue image 10 verse 7 So johann told you what was in the email he sent and you believe him but you don't believe me for saying you are delusional because I am not knocking anyone? And I am the one with my facts wrong? Slow down, deep breaths, it's okay man.

The difference between Johann and Mark's emails is Mark's theory of Houston stands alone without the email. It fits within what is commonly believed to be correct about the puzzle. Mark's email is icing on the cake so to speak. If johanns email is true, then everything else about the puzzle is wrong. And for people to accept that everything else is wrong, they are going to need some context. Mark is happy to let whoever wants to, ignore his email... you dont need it to solve Houston, you dont need it to believe Houston was solved. From everything I have seen about st Louis, you really need that email... otherwise there would be no reason to be there.

So you are saying Houston was solved??

Unknown: So you are saying Houston was solved?? This: "It would not be a waste of time to dig there, but I cannot make any guarantees whatsoever." Versus this: "If you have correctly determined the location of a treasure, we will respond to you by mail." Sounds to me like Preiss could have made all the necessary guarantees, if in fact Mark had determined the location of the treasure. So unless you think Preiss was lying, or just didn't remember where he buried these things, or simply did not care about the puzzle and those who were still trying to solve it anymore, then the most likely explanation is that Mark had the wrong location. And while Preiss could have told him so, Mark was able to determine this for himself by digging an empty hole. In my opinion, and with all due respect to Mark and his efforts, Houston remains unsolved.

For all we know BP could be giving a cryptic answer "yes to St. Louis" confirming that there's a reference to St. Louis in a puzzle. Good candidate could be image 12 and the Lone Eagle, the Spirit of St. Louis.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: In my opinion, and with all due respect to Mark and his efforts, Houston remains unsolved. I agree with this 100%. Mark was close but could not solve the final clues that would lead to the correct spot. I still spend a bit of time on the Houston puzzle. I don't believe the casque is retrievable but it would be nice to at least finish off the verse.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: To be fair, you haven't seen reality yet. Not to mention, the Rule that founded my festival is much more reliable. Sorry, missed this one when trying to convince that dude that is PM'ing everybody asking for my phone number and address to stay sane. I am all ears and entirely open minded to your theories. I only poke fun because you have been teasing them for the last 12+ months.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: Sorry, missed this one when trying to convince that dude that is PM'ing everybody asking for my phone number and address to stay sane. I am all ears and entirely open minded to your theories. I only poke fun because you have been teasing them for the last 12+ months. I can take it all day. In fact, I think that it's something that builds community b/w board members. Clearly, not everyone feels that way. It's the personal digs that I don't understand. Last time I shared anything, some douchebag spread a bunch of lies in an effort to make a dime, and then accused me of trying to steal his last. It's unbelievable what people will go through to secure their "stature." Luckily, I know people will look back once our solution does come out and look fondly on everything Renovator and I wrote. I fully admit, we've both had some horribly cringe-worthy posts over the years, but in the last you'll see our demeanor has changed. Kindly judge us from that point forward.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: I can take it all day. In fact, I think that it's something that builds community b/w board members. Clearly, not everyone feels that way. It's the personal digs that I don't understand. Last time I shared anything, some douchebag spread a bunch of lies in an effort to make a dime, and then accused me of trying to steal his last. It's unbelievable what people will go through to secure their "stature." Luckily, I know people will look back once our solution does come out and look fondly on everything Renovator and I wrote. I fully admit, we've both had some horribly cringe-worthy posts over the years, but in the last you'll see our demeanor has changed. Kindly judge us from that point forward. I know that you can. We all have the "ugh, maybe that was a bad idea" posts on occasion. I support your effort whether I end up in full agreement or not. It is forwarding the puzzle.

Choice wrote:: For all we know BP could be giving a cryptic answer "yes to St. Louis" confirming that there's a reference to St. Louis in a puzzle... Ok, I'm back. What did I miss?.. ...Ahhh, the usual I see. So a few thoughts on the St. Louis email thing. I think this quite possible: My take on that is: St. Louis (the name) is correct, but St. Louis (the city) is not. So, where else is there a St. Louis that is already being considered for a treasure location? Answer: New Orleans. That makes perfect sense with the other clues which point there. I also thought the article was interesting where Priess wondered if the puzzles were too easy. I know this has been covered in detail elsewhere, and it is why I previously wrote about this not being as hard as we have made it. But what I found more interesting was that Palencar said, “Where the verse leaves off, the painting may begin.” More on that later. Maybe. I now return you to your regularly scheduled tete-a-tete...

UnprovenFact wrote:: My take on that is: St. Louis (the name) is correct, but St. Louis (the city) is not. So, where else is there a St. Louis that is already being considered for a treasure location? Answer: New Orleans. That makes perfect sense with the other clues which point there. This is exactly what Josh Cornell believed.... also many others over the years but it is more fun lead with Josh.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: This is exactly what Josh Cornell believed.... also many others over the years but it is more fun lead with Josh. I would guess many people have to come to many of the same conclusions here over the years. Apparently, I got to this party pretty late. NOLA is not a puzzle I have really worked on... which will become further evident in my Verse 2 post. However, I thought I would put some thoughts out there. Not sure how to take the comparison to Ol' J.C., but I will manage. Now, back to my guitar!

I was just saying that many people agree with you on that. The Josh comment was me adding some fun to the mix.

Here is a version of that Plain Dealer article with slightly better images. Note that the copy of Image 3 on the second page is not cropped horizontally, but is cropped vertically. plain.dealer.121982.better.pdf

forest_blight wrote:: Here is a version of that Plain Dealer article with slightly better images. Note that the copy of Image 3 on the second page is not cropped horizontally, but is cropped vertically. plain.dealer.121982.better.pdf Thanks for the repost. Good stuff.

I found another period article on The Secret . From the Dayton Daily News, Dec. 19, 1982: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/dayton.daily.news.121982.jpg

I found this nice remembrance of Byron by his friend and collaborator William Stout in Spectrum 13 (2006). I wasn't sure where else to post it. It is quite moving:

Unknown: It is quite moving: Indeed. Thanks for posting that FB. One day, we hope to add to his already impressive legacy. Honestly, if we can just get people to stop thinking and saying that he was bad at making puzzles, that will be a good start.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Honestly, if we can just get people to stop thinking and saying that he was bad at making puzzles, that will be a good start. Thank you for posting Forest Blight. Here, Here! Renovator has posted what may be the truest statement I've ever seen on this board. In my opinion.

I think BP was an excellent puzzle maker. In his defense, when he created this hunt, this sort of thing had been done exactly once before, and that hunt was still ongoing. There was simply no way to calibrate the difficulty of a large-scale hunt like this.

Unknown: There was simply no way to calibrate the difficulty of a large-scale hunt like this. Quite simply, he created the perfect Internet Hunt 15 years before the widespread interest and use of the internet. I think he knew this when people started contacting him again in the early '00s, and I believe had he lived, this hunt, in its entirety, would have been resolved by 2007 or 2008 at the latest. "Bring me a casque" was a challenge, not a dare. It's a challenge that 421 and I have eagerly embraced, in the spirit that it was issued.

Inspired by Forest Blight's post and to add some additional Media-related Byron Preiss info - many here already realize these things. This post is for those that did not already know. For any comics-lovers, comics movies lovers, folks who've read an e-book or think schools should think outside the box to reach at-risk youth and anyone who thinks that artists/creators should be fairly compensated for their creations that make so much money for others - you have Byron Preiss in part to thank for that. A few reasons: While still in college and with zero budget Byron created a comic with an anti-drug message and distributed to schools to use with reading-challenged youth to help keep them out of gangs and off drugs. hxxp://seductionofdainnocent.blogspot.com/2012/02/block.html He is arguably the inventor and certainly pioneer of what is now known as the "Graphic Novel" which was targeted at adults rather than children. https://www.vulture.com/2015/10/will-eisner-graphic-novels-paul-levitz.html He pioneered books in digital format, first on CD-ROM and later his trademarked term "iBook" (much to the consternation of a certain fruit company with i-everythings) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Books And for a time a man named Edmund Preiss was lead attorney in representing Siegel and Shuster - the creators of Superman, in their effort to be paid more than the $130 they were forced to accept to give up all rights to their creation 30 years earlier. On the eve of a first of its generation comic-based blockbuster movie release, which was already in the works. hxxp://www.immedium.com/news/cgr/0312ibooks.html hxxp://www.buckyohare.org/hama.shtml How did that last item come to pass? Because while still in college, Byron asked his father to step in and help those guys. https://www.scribd.com/doc/299057831/1975-Agreement-WB-Siegel-Shuster

Can't remember if this had been posted before. From The New Fillmore , June, 2013: hxxp://kspot.org/trove/news.clippings/the.new.fillmore.2013_06.pdf

Today is the 14 year anniversary of BP's tragic passing: https://www.legacy.com/obituaries/nytim ... =143981884 https://www.cbr.com/publisher-byron-pre ... age-of-52/

new article today, July 23rd 2019, moving the St.Augustine hunt to De Leon Springs State Park in Central Florida: https://www.orlandosentinel.com/enterta ... story.html

Unknown: Burying the casques was the ultimate publicity stunt to attract attention. Sigh.

Unknown: During a recent trip to Washington, D.C., they tried to schedule a meeting with U.S. Rep. Michael Waltz, the congressman for the area surrounding De Leon Springs. While reading this, Fenix choked on his soda, almost killing himself.