Thread Summary
Ever wonder what it’s like to build your own treasure? This thread is a delightful deep dive into Casque 13—a hand-crafted replica of one of the buried treasures from The Secret. The original poster, maltedfalcon, introduces his detailed model casque, sparking an in-depth (pun intended) conversation about materials, detection methods, and even DIY schematics.
🛠️ Building the Box
- Casque 13 is lovingly crafted from plexiglass, porcelain, and rebar wire to match the real ones in structure and materials.
- Details include a laser-cut box with lid lips and interior wire armatures, mimicking what little is known about the real casques.
- The design is shared openly—CorelDraw and Illustrator files are offered to anyone interested in making their own.
🔍 Tools of the Trade
- Users geek out over tech: metal detectors, GPR (ground-penetrating radar), fiberglass soil probes, hammer drills, and even dowsing rods get debated.
- There's plenty of discussion on which tech works best and what could realistically detect a tiny casque buried several feet underground.
- Humor creeps in—"Balls!" says one excited commenter. Another jokes about building the world’s best metal detector instead of solving puzzles.
💥 Experimentation & Observations
- Many users share experiences of burying mock casques and testing detection tools.
- Turns out, modern detectors can often find the replicas—but only under the right conditions.
- Real-life tests show how hard it might be to locate a fractured or buried box after decades of shifting soil and environmental wear.
🗺️ Strategy & Philosophy
- Some users advocate for tech while others insist on pure puzzle-solving. One member puts it bluntly: “Solve the puzzle, ya bums!”
- The group discusses the limitations of even "perfect" solutions due to changed landscapes.
- There’s strategic analysis of how to grid search areas and how soil, frost, and roots affect a casque’s survivability and detectability.
🎯 Community Energy
- This is a classic Q4T-style exchange: half-lab, half-lounge, with a splash of sarcasm.
- drunknerds, davinci4, burnstyle, and others trade insights, jokes, and genuine encouragement.
- There's a sense of shared mission—whether it’s building tools, sharing data, or just appreciating the wild legacy of The Secret.
maltedfalcon
Hi this is Casque 13
Casque 13 is designed to be tested. Metal detected, GroundPenetrating radared, probed. etc.
I have tried to make it as close to a real casque as possible.
Without physically replicating the casque. I don't want this actually mistaken for the real thing.
It has all the correct physical dimensions, and is made out of the same type of materials.
it includes the key armature inside and the fairy armature on the lid. I believe I have matched the armature material
but without seeing the cleveland casque in person I can't be sure.
A specific difference is the lid on casque13 has a lip to keep it centered and the lid is simply placed on top it is not sealed.
The real casques have a notched lid that I believe (is/was) glued on.
If you have input to make casque13 more accurate for testing purposes. Please let me know.
I have a metal detector with customizable descrimination, I am hoping to set it up so that it filters out almost everything but the signal that matches Casque13
After I do my tests, I would be happy to let other people borrow it
TEMPORARILY
for their own testing, assuming you will share your testing data and send it back when you are done.
Casque13 is currently in Sacramento, CA. (you pay shipping!)(both ways
)
In case you would like to make your own:
Casque13's plexiglas(acrylic) box is 1/4 inch thick and laser cut from a 13x20 sheet.
A 13x20 1/4 inch sheet at Tap Plastics in Sacramento was $24
the Glue cost $5.25 for 1 tube but you only need a tiny bit,
I have access to a laser cutter so for me that was free, you can also use a jig saw set to cut very slowly with a blade made to cut plastic.
I have the (corel) file or Adobe Illustrator file of the parts of the plexiglas box and I will send that to whoever wants it.
and you can make your own box. (note: there are specific noticeable differences in this box from a real box, so it is obvious this is not a real box)
The "pseudo-casque" is a white porcelain jar with lid with the same approximate dimensions as a real casque - from Michael's it retailed at $5.99 - I had a 25% off coupon.
Lastly the wire is wire used to tie up rebar from Home Depot.
Goonie68
Does the first casque that was found have wire in it?
maltedfalcon
Goonie68 wrote::
Does the first casque that was found have wire in it?
the first casque was not broken so it is difficult to say definitely, but I suspect they were all made identically at the same time
so yes there would be a wire armature in the lid and and a wire armature in the key.
a total of 2 wires.
BINGO
If anyone would like to borrow a casque that is from Boston, just let me know.
https://flic.kr/p/24hJinu
Howardjthomas
What model detector are you testing with?
maltedfalcon
I have a garrett ace 300 and a whites Coinmaster III
Both relatively reasonable at a couple hundred.
But If I need to I can break out the big guns, my neighbor has a couple really expensive fishers.
maltedfalcon
A 1983 Metal detector probably had no hope of sensing something buried at 2.5 feet. We've technically come a long way since then.
I seem to recall the idea that they were designed not to be found this way. I was stunned when I saw the pictures of the cleveland casque that showed metal armatures.
I wouldn't bet on it but I think somewhere BP said they would not be found with a metal detector since they were just plastic and porcelain.
gManTexas
Have you or anyone else done a GPR signature on that casque at depth?
maltedfalcon
Nope but anyone with a gpr is welcome to borrow it.
burnstyle
maltedfalcon wrote::
Nope but anyone with a gpr is welcome to borrow it.
Send it to me when you are done. I'll do it.
Doghousereiley
can you bury it and let Josh Cornell dig it up?
erexere
That's cool. Has anyone made an offer yet to borrow your fan-craftwork? I was just crafting my own for a calibration test.
maltedfalcon
erexere wrote::
That's cool. Has anyone made an offer yet to borrow your fan-craftwork? I was just crafting my own for a calibration test.
Ex! Long time!
Hey send me your acrylic plexiglas and I will laser cut it for you.
strike13
Doghousereiley wrote::
can you bury it and let Josh Cornell dig it up?
aaaaahhahahahahahaa!!!
atdreamer2112
BINGO wrote::
If anyone would like to borrow a casque that is from Boston, just let me know.
https://flic.kr/p/24hJinu
davinci4
Very interesting experiment. There have been several proposed recovery methods including GPR, metal detecting, and ground probing. One suggestion when running the experiment may be to also try a version of the casque that is partially broken and see which method may work best. Some of these casque/plexiglass boxes may be fractured as was the case in Cleveland. Curious to hear the results.
davinci4
Do we know if the plexiglass box would likely remain intact in cold climates?
maltedfalcon
davinci4 wrote::
Do we know if the plexiglass box would likely remain intact in cold climates?
it did not in cleveland
davinci4
Interesting. If that is the case and some of the casque/plexiglass boxes are fractured then is there any consensus on the best way to detect them? Would GPR pick up a ‘void’ if dirt is surrounding part or most of the pieces? Could a metal detector identify a wire three feet deep? Would a soil probe go right through the pieces?
One method may be to ‘grid the area’ leaving approximately 8 inch spaces (assuming that is the approximate box size) between your holes. This would be extremely disruptive to the ground and labor intensive however. It also assumes you have narrowed it down to a confined area.
Any creative thoughts?
burnstyle
davinci4 wrote::
Interesting. If that is the case and some of the casque/plexiglass boxes are fractured then is there any consensus on the best way to detect them? Would GPR pick up a ‘void’ if dirt is surrounding part or most of the pieces? Could a metal detector identify a wire three feet deep? Would a soil probe go right through the pieces?
One method may be to ‘grid the area’ leaving approximately 8 inch spaces (assuming that is the approximate box size) between your holes. This would be extremely disruptive to the ground and labor intensive however. It also assumes you have narrowed it down to a confined area.
Any creative thoughts?
Theoretically? A gpr 'could' detect it. Especially if there were any parts of the plexi/casque that were able to hold water. It would detect a change in density of the soil...
I'm not sure about the technical explanation. That's just how it was explained to me.
Could a metal detector find it? A pulse detector might be able to...
gManTexas
I think a GPR would do best with large differences in density, such as a void of air, but water would work as well. If the box has collapsed and filled with dirt, it might show as a small anomaly, but easily mistaken for a rock or root.
Erpobdelliforme
Unknown:
also using gpr is totally fucking lame...solve a puzzle ya bums!
out of the mouth of babes...
erexere
maltedfalcon wrote::
Can you provide the exact dimensions of your box? I've built two already, using a plastic saw and taking it slow so the blade doesn't build up heat and freeze up from meltage. My dimensions were 6.25 inches per side, which I fear is too big.
maltedfalcon
erexere wrote::
Can you provide the exact dimensions of your box? My dimensions were 6.25 inches per side, which I fear is too big.
yes that was.
IF this isn't good enough, PM me an email and I will email you the pdf which you can print full scale or size it to fit your paper.
erexere
That works thank you!
davinci4
gManTexas wrote::
I think a GPR would do best with large differences in density, such as a void of air, but water would work as well. If the box has collapsed and filled with dirt, it might show as a small anomaly, but easily mistaken for a rock or root.
That would be a great detail to let the GPR technician know if one were to make a serious attempt at recovering one of these casques. They are probably trained to ignore smaller anomalies and may pass right over it. Anyone familiar with the different antennas they use in GPR? My understanding is that there are variable resolutions. Would a higher resolution GPR be more optimal in this situation? Is there any optimal time of year to GPR? Also other variables to consider including soil density. Curious to see what the results of this experiment show.
BINGO
I use a fiberglass probe that is designed to locate plastic gas lines and electric conduits. I got it from a N-star (local utility company) technician. I am really curious to see what type of report the plexiglass box gives when hit by the probe.
Nice work Eric, time to start abusing that thing.
erexere
What's the name and model of that equipment? I have a friend who does surveying who might also get one to test this box.
Btw thanks maltedfalcon for the specs. I used a table saw and type 16 liquid cement. Waiting on the porcelain white clay to make a replica. Still not sure what gauge/length nail or wire to use for the key.
Would the SENSIT Ulta-Trac APL be a good tool to try?
erexere
I'd like to be a purist and just dig holes till I find a casque. If there's a tool that can turn a 100 sq.ft. area in question into a 1 sq.ft. certainty, then I'd be happy to use it. GPR is a very comprehensive and expensive tool. Magnetic field detectors are subject to many ambient factors and signal strength is very slight with a single metal pin in the clay key at over 20" depth. The technology for tuning freq of reflection on plastic pipes looks like the best tool.
erexere
Buried a couple Guiness for my 24" depth tests.
erexere
It went well. The beer is still there. I haven't acquired a plastics frequency detector yet. I haven't decided to buy yet. Hoping first to find one to borrow.
I did test my 20v Dewalt hammer drill and a 0.5" x 30" long rigid drill bit on various soil compositions. It does well with pushing past miner aggregate and doesn't bind up badly in dense clay. With sufficient extra force applied, I did not bust through the casque's 1/4" plexi and I found it sufficiently outlined the object's 5" square profile. I believe I can fine tune where to place a shovel if needed and not break the casque.
davinci4
There has been mention of a metal wire (coat hanger like) associated with the construction of the casques. I was just curious if this information came from Chicago or Cleveland (or both). Also, do we know if they were all made the same way?
maltedfalcon
davinci4 wrote::
There has been mention of a metal wire (coat hanger like) associated with the construction of the casques. I was just curious if this information came from Chicago or Cleveland (or both). Also, do we know if they were all made the same way?
hey there
the cleveland casque was shattered and the wires were obvious.
The chicago casque was intact. but when you see why the cleveland wires are there - structural support, you realize they must also be in all the casques (and the key)
davinci4
Thanks! That’s interesting. Now the important question, is there a metal detector that could detect a wire of that caliber at 3-3.5’ depth?
maltedfalcon
davinci4 wrote::
Thanks! That’s interesting. Now the important question, is there a metal detector that could detect a wire of that caliber at 3-3.5’ depth?
yes, but omg that would be an expensive machine.
but to get it into the 20 inch range you are probably looking at a $1000 -$1500 detector with a special search coil.
The trouble would be lots of targets because it would sense so big an area.
gManTexas
davinci4 wrote::
Thanks! That’s interesting. Now the important question, is there a metal detector that could detect a wire of that caliber at 3-3.5’ depth?
I don't think a metal detector is needed. Just have to solve the puzzles.
drunknerds
But what if the real puzzle was to see who could build the world's best metal detector?
Erpobdelliforme
Unknown:
But what if the real puzzle was to see who could build the world's best metal detector?
We can only hope since we are a lot closer to solving that one.
maltedfalcon
gManTexas wrote::
I don't think a metal detector is needed. Just have to solve the puzzles.
Remembering how in Chicago, when they had a picture of the dig spot, they actually dug in the wrong spot, and after digging and not finding the casque they were surprised when the dirt fell on the side of the hole revealing the casque.
So I suspect in the majority of casques. If you had the exact definite solution, 100% correct. and went there today
the burial sites would have changed significantly enough, that you could only get to the area, not the spot.
davinci4
maltedfalcon wrote::
Remembering how in Chicago, when they had a picture of the dig spot, they actually dug in the wrong spot, and after digging and not finding the casque they were surprised when the dirt fell on the side of the hole revealing the casque.
So I suspect in the majority of casques. If you had the exact definite solution, 100% correct. and went there today
the burial sites would have changed significantly enough, that you could only get to the area, not the spot.
Yes. I agree. GPR MAY help narrow the margin of error but even that technology is not perfect in this situation. Three things one would need/want to give you the best chance of retrieving a casque:
1) Correction solution
2) GPR
3) Luck
maltedfalcon
davinci4 wrote::
Yes. I agree. GPR MAY help narrow the margin of error but even that technology is not perfect in this situation. Three things one would need/want to give you the best chance of retrieving a casque:
1) Correction solution
2) GPR
3) Luck
From what I have seen is if the soil has been disturbed. i.e. construction GPR is almost useless.
Erpobdelliforme
Unknown:
the burial sites would have changed significantly enough
Not true for Cleveland, and seemingly not true for Chicago, especially when you take readily available historical information into account. Of the 10 remaining, I'd like to think that more than half are recoverable without anything more sophisticated than a sturdy probe and a good shovel. As a matter of fact, just like in Cleveland, I think that a good probe would have helped the Chicago group considerably.
davinci4
Agreed. A good soil probe should be added to the list. The only concern though is that the plexiglass/casque complex may not be intact and a soil probe might go right through it. And, yes, GPR might not detect a void if the complex isn’t intact. So I guess a positive ‘hit’ with one/both of these instruments would be a great sign, but we can’t rule out the location of the casque based on these two methods either.
maltedfalcon
davinci4 wrote::
Agreed. A good soil probe should be added to the list. The only concern though is that the plexiglass/casque complex may not be intact and a soil probe might go right through it. And, yes, GPR might not detect a void if the complex isn’t intact. So I guess a positive ‘hit’ with one/both of these instruments would be a great sign, but we can’t rule out the location of the casque based on these two methods either.
I have been quite vocal about how useless a soil probe is.
but I was wrong, in the event a box was intact or partially intact. and this is key you have a constrained search area,
and you are methodical with it not just stabbing random places.
but your grid would need to be roughly a hole every 4 inches or you could miss it.
a 5 inch square could fit entirely between holes 5 or more inches apart.
still if the casque is already in pieces, you could hit it spot on and never know
but that being said a probe is not totally useless as I have always maintained.
Erpobdelliforme
Unknown:
but we can’t rule out the location of the casque based on these two methods either
In fact, you can't rule out a location based on an empty hole either. Not after 36 years. But IMO, if you are unwilling or unable to dig your spot, or have someone else who is willing to explore it for you, you are mostly wasting your time.
gManTexas
I think this is where BP failed. Realistically, the clues are so vague and it feels like he didn't account for how small the box was. You could probe a 20' x 20' area and never hit it. Think about Swiss cheesing that area down to 3.5 feet.
davinci4
gManTexas wrote::
I think this is where BP failed. Realistically, the clues are so vague and it feels like he didn't account for how small the box was. You could probe a 20' x 20' area and never hit it. Think about Swiss cheesing that area down to 3.5 feet.
Agreed. Perhaps he envisioned using photographs to assist at the burial spot. “10 paces from the west side” or “(22 steps) or more from the middle of the V” are hardly specific given the average human step is 2-2.5 feet. On an optimistic note, “giant step” and “middle of twenty one” may have more confined boundaries. Now all you need is the rest of the verse to lead you there!
animal painter
About a year or so ago, I also made a casque, per the same materials and dimensions of the Cleveland casque.
I sealed inside it, a porcelain teapot (unfired)containing an unfired piece of porcelain holding an Allen wrench of the appropriate size.
It was buried 2.5-3 feet down in hard soil (Used a post-hole digger to bury it, trying not to loosen the soil around it.)
It was detected by by Radio Shack Discovery 2000 metal detector.
Finding it with the metal soil probe was more difficult. It is a SMALL box!!
Also used a GPR, but could not calibrate it correctly, or read the screen usefully.
Unfortunately, I allowed an overzealous digger to try to unearth the casque. It did not survive.
But I would say that it was possible to detect the casque ... which had been buried for only a few minutes ... Not sure about 36 years.
Erpobdelliforme
Unknown:
You could probe a 20' x 20' area and never hit it.
You sure could. But that measurement is arbitrary, and therefore meaningless. You are much more likely to find what you are looking for if you have a smaller search area like they did in Cleveland and Chicago.
animal painter
animal painter wrote::
This is my mock-casque...
It was in 2014.
[/quote]
Erpobdelliforme
Unknown:
Unfortunately, I allowed an overzealous digger to try to unearth the casque. It did not survive.
To the extent I think Preiss underestimated, I think it was in this regard. It is so much easier to bury something than it is to dig it back up. Even if you know exactly where to dig. Much has been made of his clandestine efforts, but the reality of the situation is that back in 1981/82, he would have had no problem putting these things anywhere he wanted, including places that we would think are completely off limits today. Doesn't mean he did. Just saying that I think he could have. Easily.
Nice to see you AP. Hopefully, this is the year your efforts are finally rewarded.
maltedfalcon
davinci4 wrote::
“(22 steps) or more from the middle of the V” are hardly specific given the average human step is 2-2.5 feet.
How you wrote it is, how most people read it and remember it. Actually I think this clue tells us much more than it seems to at first glance.
I think this is actually one of the best constructed clues.
it has three red herrings. but logically totally makes sense.
A: The area has to look like a V could be a path, a wall or water, etc.
but if you look at the history of people trying follow this they invariably start at the point and walk from there down there V 22 steps... so they look for a V 50+ feet long. Like you suggested above.
B: of course what he said was: (East Steps) From the middle of one branch Of the v
That clue alone tells us the V has to run approximately N/S an E/W v would be eliminated.
and we know that at the middle of the V it needs to be at least 44' accross but probablyno more than 55 feet Why the smallest step would be 2' etc. that would be 22 and more.
from this we can deduce the max width is 55 feet accross the center of a North South V.
One last piece indicated by the or more... 22 steps or more - whats to stop us from saying 22 steps plus 3000 more? nothing in the verse, therefore something physically has to stop us.
So we know our V runs north south is proabably between 44 and 55 feet wide in the middle (on a West/East line) and that something physically stops you from going any further east.
We know from experience in this hunt, we have to be walking to something otherwise our search area becomes unmanageable.
So specifically in the verse or image something is called out that we are obviously walking to.
If you are in the correct spot this is probably all totally obvious, if it is not, you are probably not in the right spot.
EDIT--- 3 three red herrings are -people want to measure from the point. people think the point points west, and people thing the distance is a vague concept rather than a finite possible distance.
erexere
Good analysis on that line from v10. Thanks maltedfalcon.
maltedfalcon
Erpobdelliforme wrote::
You sure could. But that measurement is arbitrary, and therefore meaningless. You are much more likely to find what you are looking for if you have a smaller search area like they did in Cleveland and Chicago.
Using the best methods I know of, my current search area is 60 square feet. Before they will dig I have to narrow it down to 4 square feet, (of course they would prefer 1 square foot)
animal painter
This is the GPR readout directly over the buried casque.
maltedfalcon
animal painter wrote::
This is the GPR readout directly over the buried casque.
what exactly is the casque in this image?
animal painter
You tell me...
Unless you have a professional using it, a GPR is like a foreign language!
I would say the "dip" area at about 2 feet. Is my best guess.
davinci4
animal painter wrote::
This is the GPR readout directly over the buried casque.
These are excellent images. Thank you for sharing them. Animal Painter, I was just curious did you ever try a ‘broken’ version of the casque/plexiglass in your experiment? I suspect many of the casques are in a similar condition to Cleveland at this point.
animal painter
No...just a solid box...
I will say that the thickness of the plexiglas made a very stout box.
I don't think it would break down in a northern winter soil unless it was struck by a shovel.
davinci4
I hope that’s the case. It would making finding them less difficult. Do you think they inadvertently fractured it while digging in Cleveland?
BINGO
maltedfalcon wrote::
what exactly is the casque in this image?
I work as a land surveyor for a large excavation company in Boston. Last year, at the Umass Boston campus project we hired a company to come in with GPR and attempt to locate underground utilities. The city and the school knew that they were in the ground, but no one had a clue of thier actual location.
The company set up a painted and flagged grid on the ground with known distances between the grid lines. Then they ran the machine over the grid looking for abnormalities in the soil. When they found them, the GPR recorded the location (on their grid) and the rough depth of the objects.
It was pretty sophisticated. I asked the technician multiple times to show me how to read the machine. After a while, it started to make a little sense. Basically, when the lines on the readout make abrupt peaks and valleys, you have a disturbance and potentially a buried item. The techs could estimate the size and depth. I could tell when the squiggles on the screen got bigger.
It was expensive, around $1500 per day. But, it did save us some aimless digging with heavy equipment that costs far more to operate per day.
drunknerds
Thanks for the V-analysis, malted.
I feel like this is an obvious question I already know, but it's eluding me right now: Why do we have to take the steps west from the V towards the center? Couldn't we be on the east end of the V and stepping away from it?
animal painter
This is where we thought the casque showed up on the screen.
Can anyone else make better sense of it?
drunknerds
animal painter wrote::
This is where we thought the casque showed up on the screen.
Can anyone else make better sense of it?
I mean, if you're designing your device to show something is there through a linear representation... is there a better way to say "hey, somethng might be there," than a spike?
drunknerds
maltedfalcon wrote::
One last piece indicated by the or more... 22 steps or more - whats to stop us from saying 22 steps plus 3000 more? nothing in the verse, therefore something physically has to stop us.
Also, as a guy who has made puzzles for money many times, I wanted to quote this,
THIS is why it's important to have a healthy respect for the vets, here. It's not "oh he said "or more" to reference `more more more,' that hit song from the 70s," or "oh he said, "or more" because it's a reference to s'mores and there's a marshmallow factory 100 miles away," it's "logically, both 22 steps, and 22+ steps should lead you to the same area."
In my extremely limited opinion, what's holdong back further solves is people delving into their own free-association solves without heed to extremely logical posits by logical people who have been doing this for decades.
animal painter
So if anyone else has access to a GPR...this may be what you would see at your casque location...
drunknerds
animal painter wrote::
So if anyone else has access to a GPR...this may be what you would see at your casque location...
This underscores the notion that it might be useful for one of those cask 13's to GPR a 3-foot bury. Crowdfunding?
animal painter
It may lead to a third casque....and then a fourth....etc
maltedfalcon
drunknerds wrote::
Thanks for the V-analysis, malted.
I feel like this is an obvious question I already know, but it's eluding me right now: Why do we have to take the steps west from the V towards the center? Couldn't we be on the east end of the V and stepping away from it?
The steps are from the middle of one branch of the v (so the side) to the east... so from the west side to the east side. remember the v would point north/south
and walking away from something is too obtuse, your error could compound with every step
but if you are walking toward something you get more accurate with each step.
maltedfalcon
drunknerds wrote::
In my extremely limited opinion, what's holdong back further solves is people delving into their own free-association solves without heed to extremely logical posits by logical people who have been doing this for decades.
A little of both can't hurt and if on here you are free to choose what you want to pay attention to. I like the pure simple logic, but there have been some free-assocation that made me go oh wow!!! and I got a litle bit farther, I don't claim a solution or a casque (yet) but I do claim progress.
Erpobdelliforme
Unknown:
I don't think it would break down in a northern winter soil unless it was struck by a shovel.l
So true. While I would not underestimate the force of a freeze/thaw cycle (or hundreds), especially in places like Milwaukee or Montreal, it's not powerful enough to eliminate what we are looking for without a trace in the time frame we are talking about. But it will do a number on the box and its contents, especially if the seal is broken and water is introduced into the equation, making them harder to find intact. Having said that, six of the ten remaining casques are in places where those forces, when they do occur (infrequently), are less severe and thus, much less destructive.
IOW, inadvertent exposure to man is of much greater concern to me than the constant exposure to nature.
BINGO
Erpobdelliforme wrote::
So true. While I would not underestimate the force of a freeze/thaw cycle (or hundreds), especially in places like Milwaukee or Montreal, it's not powerful enough to eliminate what we are looking for without a trace in the time frame we are talking about. But it will do a number on the box and its contents, especially if the seal is broken and water is introduced into the equation, making them harder to find intact. Having said that, six of the ten remaining casques are in places where those forces, when they do occur (infrequently), are less severe and thus, much less destructive.
IOW, inadvertent exposure to man is of much greater concern to me than the constant exposure to nature.
Frost in the Northeast is not as violent as most people make it out to be. In areas where snow is left alone (not plowed/removed) frost typically penetrates only about 1’ below the surface. Regardless of the temperature. The snow helps by acting as an insulator.
On the other hand, in areas where snow is removed regularly, (roads, walkways, etc.) the frost can penetrate multiple feet below the surface. The traffic constantly pounding and lack of snow insulation on these area drives the frost deeper and deeper.
If anyone would like to see this theory tested, come visit me in Boston. I can show you multiple examples in person.
As long as the casques aren’t buried under a roadway or walkway, it is very possible that they are still intact. Being disturbed or destroyed by machinery is a different story.
Mister EZ
davinci4 wrote::
I hope that’s the case. It would making finding them less difficult. Do you think they inadvertently fractured it while digging in Cleveland?
I dunno...but, I think I remember seeing a picture of egbert with a post hole digger out in Cleveland. Maybe that could have fractured the case/casque....? (Not sure how far down in the planter the frost line goes. It's above ground, so for all we know, all of the dirt is frozen solid, every winter.)
maltedfalcon
Mister EZ wrote::
I dunno...but, I think I remember seeing a picture of egbert with a post hole digger out in Cleveland. Maybe that could have fractured the case/casque....? (Not sure how far down in the planter the frost line goes. It's above ground, so for all we know, all of the dirt is frozen solid, every winter.)
no the casque was broken long before they got there. probably by gardening activities as it turned out it was just the top 3rd that was really damaged
gManTexas
I think GPR can be useful, but in the case of Cleveland it would not have been possible. If the area is flat and unobstructed, then it could be used. Also, if there is debris, it could lead to a lot of false readings.
Mister EZ
maltedfalcon wrote::
no the casque was broken long before they got there. probably by gardening activities as it turned out it was just the top 3rd that was really damaged
Ah...okay, good to know that this didn't do it (when they moved to the other side of the planter):
hxxp://www.angelfire.com/dragon/egbert/images/Secret_3.jpg
But...potentially bad news for some other casques.
Erpobdelliforme
Unknown:
it is very possible that they are still intact
If Preiss had thought to glue the boxes properly, instead of using silicone caulk, and actually buried them in 3-3.5' deep holes, I don't think we would even be having this conversation. Having said that, I not only think it's possible that the next one will be found intact, but it's much more likely than not.
maltedfalcon
Erpobdelliforme wrote::
If Preiss had thought to glue the boxes properly, instead of using silicone caulk, and actually buried them in 3-3.5' deep holes, I don't think we would even be having this conversation. Having said that, I not only think it's possible that the next one will be found intact, but it's much more likely than not.
That would be great!
davinci4
Some of the burial sites may have too much ‘ground noise’ whichever method you choose. I suspect St. Augustine and Milwaukee, although likely at the correct locations, are deeply embedded with tree roots, rocks, making GPR, probing very difficult. An ideal site would be devoid of any root systems and would have remained undisturbed for the last 40 years.
drunknerds
davinci4 wrote::
Some of the burial sites may have too much ‘ground noise’ whichever method you choose. I suspect St. Augustine and Milwaukee, although likely at the correct locations, are deeply embedded with tree roots, rocks, making GPR, probing very difficult. An ideal site would be devoid of any root systems and would have remained undisturbed for the last 40 years.
Yes! that's the angle I'm currently thinking about: Preiss had to do this all stealth, get in, dig, get out without being noticed. He's not going to want to muck around for hours breaking up roots and digging out rocks. I know some of his solves point directly to the base of trees, but I'll believe it when I see it. I think the almost arbitrary location of the Chicago casque is an indication he didn't want to mess with roots.
davinci4
Yes. Definitely need to rethink the “Proud tall fifth.” Always assumed it was a tree given the lack of any other landmarks on Lincoln Memorial. So many trees there, though, can’t imagine trying to bury the cask among tree roots.
Studying driplines, old aerial photos of proposed sites might provide valuable information. Agreed. The Chicago site is a great a example of a ‘soft spot’ in a rooted area.
davinci4
Any thoughts on which type of GPR antenna would be ideal in recovering a cask? 800 MHz would seem to have the highest resolution and yet still make the required depth. Although I am no GPR expert. Anyone care to comment on which type of antennas have been used/recommended on attempts in the past?
maltedfalcon
send a PM to burnstyle if he is not on here he is on most of the FB pages
he is a GPR expert.
davinci4
maltedfalcon wrote::
send a PM to burnstyle if he is not on here he is on most of the FB pages
he is a GPR expert.
Appreciate that. Will do.
burnstyle
davinci4 wrote::
Appreciate that. Will do.
I'm not an expert, I just have a friend with a gpr lol.
I'll ask him for you.
davinci4
Thank you...just a thought. I wonder how much the GPR technology has advanced over the last 10-15 years. I suppose it’s possible past searchers may have scanned the exact spot and perhaps the GPR resolution wasn’t capable of picking it up.
erexere
Here's a better look at my 20 min creation.
maltedfalcon
erexere wrote::
Here's a better look at my 20 min creation.
I see wolves! lots and lots of wolves.
Goonie68
and a chicken wing!!!!
gManTexas
Goonie68 wrote::
and a chicken wing!!!!
Haha, beer and wings! That's a treasure.
erexere
Darn, I forgot to test out the dowsing method on my buried test box.
Had anyone else tried Dowsing?
Guardian
erexere wrote::
Darn, I forgot to test out the dowsing method on my buried test box.
Had anyone else tried Dowsing?
Ooh, dowsing! I’d forgotten about that! I’m a natural dowser, but I’ve never tried with man-made objects. I’ll get a rod for the next time I search!
erexere
I laughed pretty hard the 2nd time thanks sea bass
maltedfalcon
Dowsing will work great,
first dig up the casque though, and fill it with water.
then you can use the dowsing stick to find the water in the casque.
simple!
Guardian
maltedfalcon wrote::
Dowsing will work great,
first dig up the casque though, and fill it with water.
then you can use the dowsing stick to find the water in the casque.
simple!
It works with most non-soil items in soil. I’ve found keys and empty pipes, for example.
maltedfalcon
I guarantee if you find the casque and dig it up
then fill it with water and rebury it
it will be easy to find with a stick
maltedfalcon
here is my dowsing rod.
it is magical.
I wander around the area and I push it down into the ground where I think the casque is.
if it finds anything it magically stops to let me know.
maltedfalcon
ahhhh!
that would explain why I haven’t found a casqu