Greetings all. I put this on on a separate thread due to what I found. I am on site now using my pda/cell phone to enter this so ill be abreviated until I get home later today and do a better walkthru. like al things this my theory. I could be rite or wrong.. but I managed to fing the total of 5 birch trees. they were located in the sequence that the verse calls for and fit the directions that are given to travel also. I realized why he used ''birch'', there are so few of them and they scream out load visually hehe. My / our I guess problem is after the 3 going west. (which makes 4 total) the mark which should be on the ''grand tall 5th'' no longer exsists.. I found what was left of the 5th, it was felled, oblitering the marker. and the final location to the treasure.....no stump was visible to mark off of either unfortunatly. I have the trails / bridge / paces / trees all GPS'd. ill need some time to overlay all this and composite it into photoshop. ill prolly have it finnished by tomarrow.. the felled 5th is at N 43(degrees) 03.994' W 087(degrees) 52.282' I hope this at least puts this to rest... Shadowrunner

Excellent work shadow!  Looking forward to seeing it all.  BTW, if you see a guy with a soaking wet memory card lurking around, give him a smack for me..

boogieman wrote:: BTW, if you see a guy with a soaking wet memory card lurking around, give him a smack for me..

I'm having trouble seeing how... The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil ...could get you anywhere other than the shore, but your location is almost due north of the lighthouse. The bridge is surely one of the Lion bridges, no? Can't wait to see your take on the verse.

hi Forest_blight, I am just posting the overlay for the trip today with the gps coords.. this is really quick and dirty ,my appologies. ill get to the explanation later tonight after i get some much needed sleep before i go to kendo or tomarrow during the day..i think i dynamically scalled the gps info correctly. ill look at it more later.. hope this helps more to come.. www.troll-werks.com [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

I too look forward to hearing your thoughts.  Like I said before-- BP did like his trees! The position you have placed your birch trees put them in the ravine just south of the parking lot and are before the Lion bridge and the compass.  (However, there are numerous smaller trail bridges there as there are in all of the ravines).  Also what birch trees you did find will stick out--there are so few in that park--due to some forest blight in the birch tree population. (FB--sorry pal...) The park used to have bunches.    I never felt that the verse was to be considered out of order--that is, I always took the verse to be a point by point verbal trail map, so to speak.  I'm very interested in your theory, rest, then post as soon as you can.

Hey guys, awake and looking at the gps data.. i tried to recalibrate the unit after i did my walk thru down the draw / culvert with the birck trees in it. i couldnt get the compass portion to calibrate and even though it allowed me to use the marking functions and such.. looking at the points, there off.. its saturday i will try and contact Garmin and see if they are open. i want this to be tight.. which obviously means i need to go back once i figure this out.. my bad on this.. ill work with what i have though and post another page on my website. my apologizes on this guys.. [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

Wainting patiently.

Shadowrunner, If you email me the coords I can easily plot them on an aerial photo of the area.  Actually, I just enter them and the software lays them over the photo.  PM me if you're interested.

HI guys, saturday was a wash for computer work after i finally got the gps updated through garmin online i found out i will have to wait to monday for live help   :bang).. figures.. still couldnt get it to calibrate the compass function.. i am going to take the day and work on the page .. sorry about the delays [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

Ok its live on the web page... happy reading all.. hxxp://troll-werks.com/Millwaukee%20site.htm get out your hammers and have at it lol.... be safe all, [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

so I thought if I might be able to see the base/stump at least I could dig "At its southern foot The treasure waits." and see if the theory still held..(quote) Shadow, How long ago do you figure that free was felled?  If that was indeed the trunk of our proud tall fifth, from your pics, I'd guess 3-6 years.  If that is true, the earth from where the tree was would have created somewhat of a sinkhole.  Especially if the stump was ground down.  At least the earth would be softer.  Maybe some one at the park would know.  Again, nice job..  Boog

hey boss.. no idea.. the overall cross section was about 30" dia. though.. had to be a big one lol... never thought of the ground firmness or a differental in the soil from the stump removal.. next week i want to contact the parks/groundskeeper for the city and see if anyone remembers the tree and the removal... be safe all [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

SW - I just enjoy watching your mind work. Sometimes, if a stump is not removed a new tree will grow out of it. Was there anything that might look like that? wilhouse

greetings Wilhouse, Very interesting idea, honestly the demarkation line on the edge of the golf course, and the woods next to it were i found the cut, are mixed with various growth.  I would have to make a return trip back up north. I will have the free time to go back in  about a week. awesome ideas all... be safe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

Shadowrunner - that was an absolute pleasure to read. Thank you! You may be hot on the trail. My only qualm at this point is how things line up - the landmarks in your trek aren't in the right order. According to V8, you should proceed in the following manner: 1. Lincoln Memorial Dr. 2. Grand Staircase 3. North Point Lighthouse (passing it, but continuing in the same direction?) 4. "Below" the bridge (lower elevation?) 5. Then go southeast to the birches. Your trail gets you to the Lighthouse, but then you have to do an about-face, going half-way back the way you came (toward the Grand Staircase) to find the birches. Maybe this is something that would be clear to me on-site. I really, really like the cloak pattern indicating a large birch tree, though - maybe even the one you photographed. Nice job. If the stump is not visible, is it possible they cut it down elsewhere and simply dumped it where you found it? It seems so far away from the other 4 birches.

HI forest.. your right. alot of this is based on my finding the trees and reverse engineering the physical location of the trees to the verse and the topograghy around it. i was never able to get a satisfactory usage of the "lighthouse" in the verse unfortunatly, i built the case around the trees and looked to see were the verse and the components of the verse came into play.  I couldnt figure out any other way to approach the lack of birch trees. its a great leap..i know.. with the passage of time i think much has been lost in the way of the 5 birch trees...unfortunate. be safe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

Shadow-- I saw a birch on our recon there the first time back in March.  It was at the edge of what I have always termed Ravine 1, at the south boundry of the golf course.  I see that you have two markers on your map both birches, one is for a standing birch which you have shown the leaf, the trunk and the canopy for  and the other is the cut down birch.  I cannot tell from your pictures if you saw something different from what I saw.  Is this one of the trees you saw?  Is it the one currently standing or could it be the cut birch?? hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/548906299/2586477160064740493Ontwer

Hey Pine-- I remember when we were there digging, you went scouting about over by the soccer fields.  I thought that you had mentioned seeing another Girl Scout marker over that way?? Yes??  Was I hallucinating that you reported that?? Wishful thinking??  The Soccer field would be below that birch tree line in the "Parking lot Ravine"  that Shadow has proposed.  Although moving down in that direction and using Shadow's current theory, we've already used up our "pass three, staying west" and our "Walk 100 paces SE..." which does not allow us to get down into the soccer field. I have sent off an e mail to the Girl Scouts of Milwaukee to see if they have any historical information about the markers and where they were at the park.  Will report back, when they respond.

hey there Stercox, Yes that tree is the one  i marked. the other one is the cut one.. hope that helps be safe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

Fantastic work SR.  Given what we have today, I dont think reverse engineering the way you did is wrong.  Yes, the birch trees are the most important pieces to this puzzle....and you may have located them. One oddball suggestion.  Since the "order of the walk" seems to be out of order from the book, is there any way that any of the other trees {besides the huge cut tree} be the "tall 5th" ?  We may just have to take our ground spikes {probes} to all of the other birches just in case. We are close guys....lets not give up....

Unknown: We may just have to take our ground spikes {probes} to all of the other birches just in case. Hi Fox, they could be, but the big one that was cut was by far the largest of them all.. anything is possible... btw what is this?? i am curious hehe be safe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

Unknown: Hey Pine-- I remember when we were there digging, you went scouting about over by the soccer fields.  I thought that you had mentioned seeing another Girl Scout marker over that way?? Yes??  Was I hallucinating that you reported that?? Wishful thinking??  The Soccer field would be below that birch tree line in the "Parking lot Ravine"  that Shadow has proposed.  Although moving down in that direction and using Shadow's current theory, we've already used up our "pass three, staying west" and our "Walk 100 paces SE..." which does not allow us to get down into the soccer field. I have sent off an e mail to the Girl Scouts of Milwaukee to see if they have any historical information about the markers and where they were at the park.  Will report back, when they respond. Stercox wrote: Yep, there is one GS marker on a tree at the soccer fields, just at the base of the Parking Lot Ravine.  Referencing Shadowrunner's website map, it's located approximately at the lower (Eastern) end of his block labelled "BIRCHYNG".  The downside is that this tree is within the treeline, not in the field, which means that its entire Southern quadrant is filled with other (typically smaller) tree trunks.  It's totally undiggable.  In 1982 was it open?  Don't know.  Any pictures the GS have may help. Pine

Shadowrunner wrote:: Hi Fox, btw what is this?? i am curious hehe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow] Because it is not easy to dig in dirt that has had roots growing for 20 years, we have taken to using a metal rod with a point on it and a handle (typically purchased at Home Depot in the sprinkler area) to "poke around" in the dirt looking for the casque.  That is the spike Fox refers to. wilhouse

AHH! of course...I am a lumberhead at times ... thanks foe enlightening me Shadowrunner

Shadowrunner wrote:: of course...I am a lumberhead at times ... hehehehe..  If you are a lumberhead, I think everyone on these boards (sans Egbert) wants to be a lumberhead too.  If finding a casque makes you a lumberhead......so be it.

I thought that the compass was the compass in the concrete that shadowrunner took a picture, so why is everyone saying the north point lighthouse is the compass? and the verse says ASCEND THE 92 STEPS AFTER CLIMBING THE GRAND 200 if         the grand staircase only has 92 steps then why does it say grand 200, and it says ascend the 92 steps "AFTER" climbing the grand 200 (staircase) someone please explain what this all means.

regulus - detailed explanations for these questions are already in the forum. In brief, the actual compass isn't near the area pointed to by the rest of the clues. "Pointing north" (North Point) is what a compass does; it's the clever sort of wordplay one finds in riddles like this. The same way "cast in copper" refers to Lincoln Memorial Drive. The Lincoln Memorial is cast in copper on every penny minted since 1959. "Grand 200" refers (we think!) to the "CC" shaped portion of the Grand Stair, the whole of which is comprised of exactly 92 steps. The "Grand 200" and the 92 steps are one and the same.

but is says ascend the 92 steps AFTER climbing the grand 200

Shadowrunner where in the park is the compass rose, that you took a picture of? is it near the grand staircase?

Uh, Forest ol' buddy.... I think you're falling for a joke. One of us "regulars" must have read the "regulus" postings over at ATT and decided to post this stuff here under that handle.  They're even mimicking the crazy/serious writing style that the real "regulus" uses, and doing pretty well, too. I only post as myself, but I've considered creating an alter ego for entertainment purposes, and posting things that are utterly at odds with what I really think -- and the nuttier the better.  This was a great opportunity for that, and somebody beat me to it.  Maybe I can still do it, and I'll call myself "irregulus". Anyway, so who is this?  Fess up.  Wilhouse, Egg, Johann? Pine

Pine_Tree wrote:: Uh, Forest ol' buddy.... I only post as myself, but I've considered creating an alter ego for entertainment purposes, and posting things that are utterly at odds with what I really think -- and the nuttier the better.  This was a great opportunity for that, and somebody beat me to it.  Maybe I can still do it, and I'll call myself "irregulus". Anyway, so who is this?  Fess up.  Wilhouse, Egg, Johann? Pine If that were the case in my instance, would my alter ego make sense and be helpful?

i thought about it also, but would have probably gotten into arguments with myself...and lost. my name would have been "plain ketsup" because that seems to be what i'm doing most of the time.

Trohn, you could be like George from Seinfeld, do everything opposite and you'll be OK.  LOL Uh.. Pine, how would you know about this joke?  To quote a clever ole chap(the name escapes me), "Who ever smelt it, dealt it".

this IS regulus, am i not allowed to participate in this hunt anymore? or this forum?

Ha! Joke's on you, Pine. Now you'll always wonder if regulus is really me! Picking on ol' Forest, geez... boogie - I always heard it as "The smeller is the feller," but I like your version better.

i thought I was forgiven, i realize how stupid I was to say i found it, and i am sorry, if you don't want me here tell the ADMIN, but i am sorry and i am just asking simple questions. I wish someone would answer them

"regulus", Of course you're allowed to participate.  Everyone's allowed to participate.  Absolutely none of us (except Mark) have any power whatsoever to stop anybody from doing anything. So carry on with the alter-ego stuff.  I've decided to try it myself.  Have fun. Pi... ur, irregulus

but will someone answer my questions please?

do i have to change my name or start another profile to get respect or answers?

regulus - if you'll scroll back a little, you'll find that I did answer your questions. I'll gladly supply more details if needed. Sorry for the snarkiness.

Shadowrunner/forest-blight where in the park is the compass rose, that you took a picture of? is it near the grand staircase? u know the compass in the concrete?

regulus wrote:: i thought I was forgiven, i realize how stupid I was to say i found it, and i am sorry, Being stupid is normal around here!  That ain't the problem.  BTW, who forgave you?  I think you need to post a real confirmer and get some "atta boys" before anyone forgets. "Hey, I found a casque fishing in the East River off Manhattan.  I would post pics but I brought the wrong camera under water and they got ruined".....  Retardulus

regulus - the compass you refer to is not in the park, but it is close. Just south of it, if I'm right, but too far away from the other material to be "our" compass:

thank you Forest-Blight hoping to go to milwaukee soon.

hey Reg...there are others who have visited the site as well.  You may want to arrange some time for everyone to meet up together and hash this thing out.  The more legs and eyes on the ground the better. as a not too long ago post by SR explains...I think that focusing on the 4 or 5 birch trees he has located would be our best approach now, until another confirmer can be found concretely. its only a matter of time before we find this casque.

Recon to your heart's content, but I cannot stress enough the importance of working with the park management when it comes time for shovel to hit earth.

so true indeed FB! have to follow the correct procedure or this casque will be lost forever...

Trohn wrote:: If that were the case in my instance, would my alter ego make sense and be helpful? By the way, TROHN WINS FOR BEST POST OF ALL TIME. Pine

Shadowrunner wrote:: HI forest.. your right. alot of this is based on my finding the trees and reverse engineering the physical location of the trees to the verse and the topograghy around it. i was never able to get a satisfactory usage of the "lighthouse" in the verse unfortunatly, i built the case around the trees and looked to see were the verse and the components of the verse came into play.  I couldnt figure out any other way to approach the lack of birch trees. its a great leap..i know.. with the passage of time i think much has been lost in the way of the 5 birch trees...unfortunate. be safe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow] Would it be possible to identify a birch tree in the park from aerial photos (assuming they weren't in the middle of a larger grouping of trees)? I know in Houston's downtown library there aerial photos of the city going back at least 25 years or so. Granted they weren't close ups, but maybe Milwaukee's downtown library has some that would let you spot birch trees that existed in the park in 1980?

interesting idea the sat maps i was looking at wouldnt let me zoom in that far to see unfortunatly.. anyone have a better source for them? one thing to think on though. the trees depending on the time of year will all have green leaves.. the silvery bark may be obstructed from view from above.. but we wont know till we try be safe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

Pine_Tree wrote:: By the way, TROHN WINS FOR BEST POST OF ALL TIME. Pine lol.  I vote for that post too. Hi guys.  I've been on vacation, and just got back.  Pine Tree, I think Regulus is just Regulus.  If you click on his profile, you will see that he registered a year ago and has been posting on the Tweleve boards as well.  I am hoping that Regulus has seen the errors of his ways, but I would be a bit wary of posting possible solutions on the boards right now, for fear that a Tweleve hunter will run and get it first. Shadowrunner, you have done a marvelous job, and welcome (back) to the hunt!

Egbert wrote:: but I would be a bit wary of posting possible solutions on the boards right now, for fear that a Tweleve hunter will run and get it first. ouch...I am offended

Hi everyone, Just a update i recieved a book i had ordered today  "outdoor sculpture in Milwaukee"  it was written back in 95 and i got ahold of it, it shows all the sculture in the city from as far back as the late 1800's including some that no longer exist. Unfortunatly nothing was in the book that would synch up to the verse.  the ISBN is 0-87020-276-6 for anyone interested in it. wish i had something good to add...i am at a loss were to go now with this one, i was hoping for the golden goose here lol.... be safe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

sorry on the late post, I visited Lake Park Milwaukee, back in late August, It was an amazing park. I visited the dig site that you guys did. And I also found the first young birch, the second, the third, and a fourth (which I thought was the proud tall fifth, I thought one of the trees could have been cut down, I now understand what "YOU'LL SEE A LETTER FROM THE COUNTRY OF WONDERSTONES HEARTH ON A PROUD TALL FIFTH" means, and I understood from when I arrived there. I got permission from the park to dig at the tree, I dug at the southwest foot of the tree, because there was a rock there, we moved it and dug about a foot and a half, but we did not find the casque. There was no letter from the country................................on a proud tall fifth, though. When I got home I started the school year, and I realized that I had dug not only at the wrong part of the tree, but the wrong area all together. I now know (almost for sure) where the casque is in Lake Park Milwaukee, It is far from the first dig site at the Cottonwood. I accept comments and questions but I cannot promise that I can answer them all, until I go to Milwaukee next summer. -regulus

Reg, in the spirit of collaboration can you share your thinking and observations?  Many people are working together here, in the field and in their armchairs, and we all try to share in the work and the discoveries. Frishkie

frishkie, I am sorry but i cannot tell anyone "exactly' where the casque is until I try again next summer, I am not doing this for attention I just wanted everyone to know that I have not given up on the Milwaukee Casque. -regulus

Unknown: I am not doing this for attention You say this.  But I do not think you know what it means.

think what you want, bigmattyh, I really hope to find the casque and I think I will, If I find the casque all I want is a congratulations. -regulus

Reg- hxxp://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp/boomframe.jsp?query=%2B%22Congratulations%22%2C+%2B%22hershey%22&page=1&offset=1&result_url=redir%3Fsrc%3Dwebsearch%26requestId%3D69d539ff3dee0b8f%26clickedItemRank%3D4%26userQuery%3D%252B%2522Congratulations%2522%252C%2B%252B%2522hershey%2522%26clickedItemURN%3Dhttp%253A%252F%252Fwww.hersheygifts.com%252FnavSubDepartment.aspx%253FName%253DCongratulations%2528Hershey%2529%26invocationType%3D-%26fromPage%3DNSISPTop%26amp%3BampTest%3D1&remove_url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.hersheygifts.com%2FnavSubDepartment.aspx%253FName%253DCongratulations%28Hershey%29 "Time wounds all heals."

Trohn is that a joke? I said "IF" I find the casque.

Trohn's just playing with you, regulus. Go get us a casque. All we ask is that you (a) don't tee off anyone in power (which will make it harder for the rest of us on the 1% chance you aren't right about its location), (b) tell us how you did it, and (c) take lots and lots of pictures.

I will Forest Blight, I had permission from the park when I dug the first time, when I look back on it I don't know why I dug there, but I do know where to dig now and I hope that I find the casque. I did a test at my house, I put a metal key inside of a ceramic vase and used a metal detector and it didn't work. Does anyone have any information on Ground Penetrating Radar? thanks -regulus

regulus - you might try the thread "Ground Penetrating Radar": hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2933.0

Reg, I am still scratching my head on all of this hush-hush attitude. Can you honestly tell me and the rest of us that you and you alone came upon this solution....with out ANYTHING posted on these boards?  As we have stated time and time again around here, we really dont care who comes up with the casque...as long as they are found.  The treasure really isnt worth all that much anymore..we just revel in the find. I am by no means discounting your theory.  If you are correct, great.  We can knock another casque off of the list.  But why all of the secrecy?

Because I would like to find it myself, Yes I did get A LOT of help on these boards, but I found the exact place, where it is buried, on my own, I will say that it is far away from the dig back in May. I am sorry but, I would like to find it myself.  I hope you all find the casque in Houston.  Good Luck. -regulus

regulus wrote:: I am sorry but, I would like to find it myself.  I hope you all find the casque in Houston.  Good Luck. -regulus Well, well.  Mr. Fox, what do you make of this?

regulus wrote:: Trohn is that a joke? I said "IF" I find the casque. regulus wrote:: Because I would like to find it myself, Yes I did get A LOT of help on these boards, but I found the exact place, where it is buried, on my own, I will say that it is far away from the dig back in May. A bird in the hand will mess up your shoes. As I have said before, one casque every twenty years.  Why should we get excited ? The farmers almanac indicates we have at least sixteen years before the next find.

Just because I know where the casque is, doesn't mean that I have dug it up yet, I can't go dig it up yet, i'm 15 years old, besides, it is almost winter and the dirt is frozen. I don't care if you don't believe me, think what you want. And Trohn, Why is anyone bothering to dig in Houston, St. Louis, Montreal, or wherever. 16 years........................................

regulus wrote:: Just because I know where the casque is, doesn't mean that I have dug it up yet, I can't go dig it up yet, i'm 15 years old, besides, it is almost winter and the dirt is frozen. Winter comes early in Milwaukee.

regulus wrote:: ... but I found the exact place, where it is buried, ... I have heard/seen this posted many times in the past, on many hunts.  Until you hold the casque, you don't know that your solution is correct. By sharing your thoughts with us, we can encourage you if it looks logical, or brace you for disappointment if it sounds hollow.  I PROMISE you that no one on THIS forum will rush out to grab the treasure before you.

Unknown: By sharing your thoughts with us, we can encourage you if it looks logical, or brace you for disappointment if it sounds hollow. Or you could do something really crazy like collaborate with someone who lives in Milwaukee , so that you can find that treasure sooner rather than later.  You never know what can happen over time -- trees can be cut down, signposts can be removed, fires can burn down landmarks, floodwaters can wash out footpaths and bridges.  Think of New Orleans -- who knows if that casque is still there, or if it's even findable now?  Things change.  Seize the day, man! If you learn to cooperate and collaborate with others, you can get a lot more done than you could on your own -- something most of us come to understand sooner or later.  I say, give it a shot, and you'll be way out ahead of your time.

regulus wrote:: I can't go dig it up yet, i'm 15 years old, bigmattyh wrote:: I think he is going to wait us all out.... Seriously...  I can probably speak for most here that we want to just cross it off our list.

Fenix wrote:: What Youth deemed crystal, Age finds out was dew. - Robert Browning "I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." ---Bob Seger

I SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID ANYTHING!

regulus wrote:: I SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID ANYTHING! Now that's not the attitude to take!  You've got a great opportunity here, and the way you play it could end up being a great formative experience.  That's a cause for celebration.

Unknown: Because I would like to find it myself, I SHOULDN'T HAVE SAID ANYTHING! Reg, When I came back from Milwaukee last year and posted all my pictures and theories about the possible location--it was not because I'd didn't want to find the casque myself.  I did.  If we are all honest here--all of us want to find one--that's why we treasure hunt.  But the reality is that if the casque had been in the ground by that tree where we dug last May--I really could never claim the find as something that I had done soley on my own. Heck, I would never had been in Milwaukee or at Lake park because it is not something that I found on my own, and neither are you in Lake Park in Milwaukee because of your efforts.  At the time of the dig,  the team actually trolled through the old posts to see who deserved credit for helping find the casque.  My personal list held at least a dozen or more names--I think Forest Blight's list was similar.  The point is this: To find a casque and not share it with the people that formed the theories, took pictures, did the recon, searched libraries, made inquiries, thought outside the box to make the connections-- to get you there-- would be a very lonely win. At the time,  I bounced my ideas off the brain trust here--debated it and fined tuned our thinking before the dig--that alone was invaluable.  I posted the X marks the spot on this site weeks in advance of the actual dig date.  Anyone could have run out and dug where I said the X was-- but not once did I think someone's going to beat me to it.  This is a very difficult and tough hunt--now going into its 25th year.  There is so much about this hunt that is stacked against us ALL--most of us have come to that realization--knowing that the only way to really find these casques is to work together--fail together--and celebrate together.  Bounce some stuff our way--we can help untangle errors and affirm solid leads--it only works to your advantage.  You can trust the people here--and in so doing, have a much more rewarding and richer experience.

Well said Stercox... Reg, we are by no means trying to discount your theory.  I can garauntee that we all HOPE that you are right.  Another fallen casque would be fantastic news....just confirming to us all that we are all on the correct path that BP so graciously laid out 20+ years ago. I started these threads on The Secret some 5 years ago.....why... ...so I could go out and claim a jewel for myself...??...  No.  As my first message states, I didnt even think the jewels were still available.  Did I ask for anything from Sir Egg when the Cleveland casque was found since if it hadnt been for me starting these boards, the find would have never happened?  No.  I was ecstatic just to have generated interest in this hunt again.  I just wanted these things solved once and for all. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i ... topic=99.0 Cat was right when she posted that the members here are honest and wont run out to lay claim before you.  That is why I really enjoy this bunch.  Believe me, I have had my fair share of backstabbing by greedy hunters...{such a purty little bee}..and if there is anyone out there that should be suspicious...it is I.  Let's all work together to find another elusive casque.  One of the final eleven has already been found BY ALL so why stop there?  Sir Egg got to basque in the glory of that find and we all envied him with his adventure.  All we wanted from him was lots of pictures and a wonderful story of his exciting day...treasure enough for the members of this board. 2 down and 10 to go!!!

regulus wrote:: I hope you all find the casque in Houston y'all are coming to Houston to dig??? cool!!! wilhouse

Egbert wrote:: "I wish I didn't know now what I didn't know then." ---Bob Seger "I hope I die before I get old" --the who

"The Long and Winding Road"... The Beatles, 1970.  Are we showing our age here regulus? The long and winding road That leads to your door(casque) Will never disappear Ive seen that road before It always leads me here Lead me to your door The wild and windy night That the rain washed away Has left a pool of tears Crying for the day Why leave me standing here Let me know the way Many times Ive been alone And many times Ive cried Any way youll never know The many ways Ive tried But still they lead me back To the long winding road You left me standing here A long long time ago Dont leave me waiting here Lead me to your door But still they lead me back To the long winding road You left me standing here A long long time ago Dont leave me waiting here Lead me to your door Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

sorry I don't understand, sorry for being secretive

Ok, this is just me brainstorming, but is it possible that the "proud fifth" isn't a tree, but rather a pole or a marker or even a distant visable chimney/smokestack that has writing on it? One thing that really stumps me is this whole "wonderstone" thing. According to Wikipedia, one of the major exporters of this is Ottosdal, South Africa, so what would this mysterious letter from "wonderstone's hearth" be? Is it a single letter that appears in the country's name, or is it an actual communication from a country? Were there, at one time, trees that perhaps formed a letter of the alphabet that are long since gone? This one is frustrating, because it seems soooooo close to being found.

Uh, apparently, all this stuff has already been mulled over in the "Verse 8" forum. So never mind my ramblings in the last post.

My middle name is Killian!

After just reading the "theme" post, why does he select the work "proud" to mean big and tall.... could it be the unmentioned reference to lions ( pride )? A tree is a tree is a tree. A pole is a pole is a pole. (A grey giant is a grey giant is a grye giant. )

I have a huge idea of what the LFTCOWH is, Killian's got the right idea.  I have no doubt that the park holds the casque, but something is still bothering me, ascend the 92 steps AFTER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! climbing the grand 200, how can you climb the grand staircase twice?

regulus - It's all in how you read the verse. Ascend the 92 steps After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass... I have no trouble believing a proper translation is: Climb the Grand Staircase. Now, after you've climbed it , Go past the North Point Lighthouse.... I think "92 steps" and "grand 200" both refer to the same object, the Grand Staircase.

Right, both the 92 and the Grand are both referring to the same staircase.  BP probably believed it made it more confusing {which it did} to interchange the two.  It just sounds much more mysterious how it is written than would "Ascend the grand 200, after climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass." I would agree here.

OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DUH!!!!!!!!!!!! I can't believe I didn't see that before!  Now it all makes sense I am now 100% sure that it is in Lake Park.  It was all riding on that. Thanks guys, Let's find this thing!

Forest Blight-- Let me know when you decide to venture to St. Louis.  Perhaps we can make a team effort.

I wonder if the lightposts are even active? just for look?  I wasn't at the park at night.

I tried to follow Reg's description using local.live.com Let me to show my pics... Reg, the tall fifth is right? Is the only different lamppost (is a lamp? or not?) that i can see in the area... I hope it can be useful to planning the dig...

Eljayo, No that's not the correct lamppost, the proud tall fifth has a lot of grass surrounding it. -Regulus

Then again, That huge 4th birch is where I dug, at its southern foot! Eljayo, if you move a little to the right/west you should see the correct, proud tall fifth lamppost! At its southern foot the treasure waits! Finally we can get this thing!  I feel... LOL

Everyone check out what Eljayo posted!!!!!! That is the exact same route that I took to find the Lamppost.  I will try to post a map of the area.

yes Eljayo, sorry, that is the lamppost notice how many lights it has on it.  Like a stadium light.

I just follow your description... I would like to be there when you will go for it, but i'm not in USA. Well, i'll like your photos and detailed description of trip

By the way, I would dig up the Milwaukee casque when I go to Chicago, but it is too darn cold, the ground is too hard to dig up. thoughts on this dilemma? -regulus

regulus wrote:: By the way, I would dig up the Milwaukee casque when I go to Chicago, but it is too darn cold, the ground is too hard to dig up. thoughts on this dilemma? -regulus Bring a casque with you, along with the shovels and the ground penetrating radar and take pictures as if you found it. When it gets warmer, you can do the actual dig, but at least you already have those annoying success photos out of the way. It is like Hollywood shooting a movie out of order - remember to act surprised when your picture is taken

Ahhh.  Kind of like a Quentin Tarintino movie... Ala PULP FICTION.

well, it's time to receive news about Milwaukee casque... nobody went to look arount our fifth tall yet?

regulus wrote:: That huge 4th birch is where I dug, at its southern foot! Just thinking 30 years - a birch grows 24 inches a year... or a 60 foot birch would have been a tiny sapling  when the casque was placed.

I am going to go dig up, and hopefully unearth the casque as soon as school lets out, which will be June 8th.  So sometime after that. -regulus

Milwaukee is still up for grabs?  I've been away too long and am out of touch.  Has anyone just tried to use wire probes?  I can't imagine the author would bury something where he may hit a power line, and I'm sure the park will require a call to Mr Dig or whatever the local equivilent is, before digging next to a lamp post.

digging at the base of a lamppost is the spot.  That's where I believe the treasure to be.  Now, how deep do I have to dig?  Last time I dug there, I only dug a foot and a half.  So what's the deepest a casque has been buried?  Cleveland or Chicago?  Which was deeper? I'm still wondering if the lampposts in the park are just for looks.  I'm assuming not, but I hope they are. Need some help here. -regulus

good luck to you regulus, but be careful.

It would have been exceedingly stupid to bury a casque at the base of an electrically powered lamp post. BP would never encourage his treasure hunters to endanger their lives like that. Reconsider, and be careful!!

but the lampposts are the only things in the park with the letter from the country of wonderstones hearth!  They have the G. So what do we do?  I wonder if we can ask them to turn that one off?  I doubt it.  I hope that they are just there for looks.  Or maybe BP didn't bury it very deep at all.  Like six inches? -regulus

All electrical wires (underground) run in one of several forms of a raceway. This is called a "conduit". You could find it in one of several varieties of metal or non-metallic (PVC) tubing. Even a better protection could be done adding concrete over the conduit. I'm not saying here that you don't have risk!! Not at all. (You can break an old conduit with a strong shovel's strike) So, if you get permission to dig, just do it with security's implement (dielectric shoes, gloves) and take care. (and take pictures )

I spent 2 hours searching the Milwaukee site today. There are: two sets of different stairways two Lion bridges (the lighthouse is between  them) two paths (one leading from each bridge to the Lincoln Memorial. Dr.) two areas to search at the end of each path. Both paths are approximately the same distance (about 100 of my steps to the grassy area on Lincoln Memorial Dr.) One of the paths is made of "soil and stones" while the other is made of "soil and timbers". I could not find any "letter of the country of wonderstone's hearth". I  looked for letters carved in the tree. I am more inclined to agree with Forest Blight and company that the "Tall Proud 5th" is the tree where they first dug. To "see" it is to KNOW that it is TALL, STRAIGHT and PROUD. (about 16 feet in circumference now) The leaves are "teardrop-shaped" like other birches, even though the bark is not like the usually-recognized "paper-birch". It may not be a birch...but... It also occurred to me that NOT ALL of the 5 trees HAVE to be birches. "The first (tree) a young birch" "Pass three (more trees) staying west" ... "a proud tall fifth (tree)" My guess is that the casque must have been buried deeper than they dug down in May of 2006. Maybe I will get a chance to use some rods to "test" for the presence of something 2-3 feet down.  GPR's are about $200 to rent. "And that's the way it was"...today in Milwaukee 07/08/07. AP[

Hey painter, that's a familiar spot! It is indeed possible that it was deeper than we dug, but the digging was exceedingly difficult beyond 1.5 feet, which was about as deep as we got. Lots of stones and huge roots. Even a strong person with a post-hole digger 25 years ago would have had an impossible time of it. Reg - did we ever see proof that there is a "G" on the lamp posts? If not, then I would say there is zero reason to be digging around a lamp. Even if there were a prominent "G" on every one of them, I would still hesitate before risking my life like that.

Forest, Any ground on the West side of Lincoln Memorial Drive would probably be as hard to dig in.  25 years of compaction, makes things like concrete. (I know this from 35 years of gardening in Wisconsin dirt/clay!) I kept trying to envision what the site looked like 25 years ago. I saw a low stone wall at the edge of the grassy area that would have been there.  But the trees we have been looking at would also have been there...out in the open...very visible...not "lost" in the wooded area. Unless someone is keen on trying to rent a GPR, I do not see digging again as a viable idea.  (Now if the monetary incentive were as great as some of Mr. Stadther's jewels, that would change things!) Just for kicks, I am going to the library to see if there are any books that can help me identify the trees in the area. One thought concerning the verse...It said "Pass the compass and reach the foot of the culvert."  The South Lion Bridge is "past" the lighthouse.  If you follow the path from under that bridge, it brings you out RIGHT AT the "tall proud 5th".  The North Lion Bridge, is "before" the lighthouse.  It is the path under that bridge that brings you out far from the trees in question, so that you would have to walk to get to them.  Maybe this is splitting hairs about the word "pass". Another thing that may be significant...the 100 paces.  It could mean 100 "steps", which bring you out on the West side of Lincoln Memorial Dr.  But the definition of a "pace" is 30 inches.  That may take you East of Lincoln Dr.  I walked it off both ways.  If you end up on the East side of Lincoln Dr., the clumps of trees that you would have to count would be on the "East" of you...and the verse says to "stay West".  That is why I discarded the trees and lampposts on the East side of Lincoln Drive. AP

there are lampposts on the west side of LMD also.  However none of them have the G, (freemasons symbol).  Except for the one which is taller than all the others way down LMD. The other lampposts that have the G are the ones up by the restaurant and by the grand staircase.  You're either gonna have to take my word for it, or Animal Painter can take a look. Besides, Eljayo said that a lot of the wires would be covered. -regulus

painter - if you are in Milwaukee can you find one of those 'G's reg mentioned and photograph it? As for 'Y' being the letter, pretty much all trees have a 'Y,' so that wouldn't be diagnostic of a particular tree.

This could have been put under "image 10", too. The collar design looks a lot like this park just down the street from the Northpoint Lighthouse. The tower to the right of the park is the Northpoint Water Tower. AP

hmmm... that's interesting, I guess we might want to look for some bridges and culverts and birches over there. Hopefully the lampposts go all the way to that park.  I believe the pictures that AP took are from Veteran's Park, it's Lake Park's neighbor. -regulus

There is the sculpture entitled "Compass" which is located on Brady St. overlooking Lincoln Memorial Drive and Lake Michigan.  Just another thing to consider. But it is so far from the target area...and it was not there in 1982 AP

hmmm I dont suppose there is 92 steps in that stairway over by the pedestrian bridge....

maltedfalcon wrote:: hmmm I dont suppose there is 92 steps in that stairway over by the pedestrian bridge.... No, I counted them yesterday there are only about 30-40.

i doubt BP would expect a hunter to ascend the grand staircase, then walk ALL THE WAY down to that compass, but ya never know. I'm sticking with the FreeMasons symbol. -regulus

I believe that the Compass sculpture was installed in 2005, along with the nearby Sentinel sculptures. Andy

Just spent 3 hours at the Lakefront in Milwaukee. (Saturday AM). My husband, who is a Milwaukee native, says that Lincoln Memorial Dr. used to be just a two-lane road before it was widened to  4-lanes with a median.  He says there is a possibility that the trees which were used as markers, could very well by "under the asphalt" of the existing road. We used a 6-foot rod and metal detector to try to detect anything buried by our original "tall proud 5th".  We hit roots, but no plastic box. The next step is to try to find photos of the area in the 1980's. That will be the only way to determine what trees the author used. AP

cross the street, lamppost G

After doing some research, I found the following excerpts from the archives of the Milwaukee Journal...Apparently, the LMD was widened after 1999. Read the following...It may very well be that the "box" is under the existing roadway...or was inadvertently dug up in the construction. AP *************************************************** Excerpts from the Milwaukee Journal: Differences over Lincoln Memorial Drive still wide Milwaukee Journal Sentinel, The,  Jun 8, 1998  by WHITNEY GOULD An ambitious plan to widen and reconstruct N. Lincoln Memorial Drive would destroy three acres of lakefront parkland and remove 43 trees, according to a report by consultants for Milwaukee County A plan to rebuild and widen the 3.2-mile stretch of N. Lincoln Memorial Drive along the lakefront rather than resurface it gained the backing of a County Board committee Tuesday. The plan calls for putting a planted median strip in the middle of the entire length of the roadway the roadway currently is about 64 feet from curb to curb, and the new roadway would be between 64 and 80 feet wide, he said. The width of the median strip will vary, from 4 to 12 feet, Dumas said. There will be two travel lanes in each direction of the roadway, each lane about 11 feet wide, and a parking lane about 10 feet wide on each side of the roadway. This venerable drive is slated for a major reconstruction beginning in mid-July.

That is terrible news, animal painter. It would be interesting to know how the road was widened - only on the lake side, only on the inland side, or both.

would they have removed lampposts? remember everyone, we have the exact lamppost on local.live.com, look back a couple pages in this thread and you'll find it, the only lamppost down there that has the G is the tall one.  The others have some logo from the electric company.  When I was there, we asked someone what that meant, why the masonic symbols were there, and the person replied, "the man who put them up wanted to spread the popularity of the Freemasons, and that was his opportunity. Also when I was in Onalaska Wisconsin, there was a birthday party dance, and outside were lampposts with the masonic symbols. we need to dig -regulus

My next step is to try to find photos of LMD "before and after". Some agency had to have taken pictures for the reconstruction process. I'm sorry, Regulus.  I will not be digging next to a lamppost.  It is too risky for such a small treasure. AP

Here are two pre-widening postcards, the first from the 1940s and the second, I'm guessing, the 1960s: My guess is that the road was widened only on the lake side, and that the lampposts on that side were simply moved further over as the road was widened. So even if one of the lamps has our "G" it may not be where it was in 1981.

What about way down the road, where the parking lot is, that's where the tall lamppost is.  The tall lamppost is perfectly parallel to the 4th birch tree, along with all the others.  Would the management have transplanted the small birches? And Animal Painter, try to find a picture of the lamppost I was talking about.  Look back a couple of pages at the satellite images of Lake Park, it should have some postings by Eljayo, just take a picture of it next time you're down there.  The G should be on the northern foot of it. The area we have to dig in next to the lamppost is about a square foot.  Otherwise the rest is covered by the parking lot. I believe it is still there. -regulus

animal painter wrote:: I'm sorry, Regulus.  I will not be digging next to a lamppost.  It is too risky for such a small treasure. AP if its above 110 volts it would have to be in a conduit. use a shovel with a fiberglass handle. dont blindly shove the blade into the ground. The most danger you will be in is being run over because you are distracting drivers next to a busy road, any where in a public park you could run into a buried power cable or gas line This can simply be mitigated by using a metal detector, while the treasure wont show up - the cable or pipe will. use a little common sense. driving to the park is going to be more dangerous then digging a hole, even next to a lamp post.

Is a good idea to research were was this lamppost in 1981. Here is the thread with aereal picture of the lamppost: hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=52339#p52339

forest_blight wrote:: iMy guess is that the road was widened only on the lake side, and that the lampposts on that side were simply moved further over as the road was widened. So even if one of the lamps has our "G" it may not be where it was in 1981. Forest, I took one more drive to LMD today (Sunday). My husband came along to look at the road and landmarks, to see how things had changed from his earlier memories of the area. He says that most of the "lake side" (right) of the road is probably in the same location as before the reconstruction, because the Bradford Beach building is in the same place as 50 years ago... (You can see the building on the right side of the roadway.)..as are some other lakeside landmarks. One of the newspaper articles said that 43 trees were lost to reconstruction.  That's a lot of trees! Until I can find photos of the area between 1980 and 1999, we won't be sure of the extent of the change. Let us not give up hope until we get some kind of confirmation. AP

Regulus, Yes, I did find the lamppost with the masonic "G" on it. It was in the parking lot of the North Point Snack Bar. Every lamppost in that parking lot had the same "G" on it. They appeared to be original from several decades before the reconstruction. AP

The trees near the ravine are far...too far away from the lamppost.

If all the lampposts in the area have the same "G" on them, why are we singling out that one in particular? And why oh why is it a "proud, tall fifth"?? It doesn't make any sense.

Here is the explanation... (regulus logic) hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=52085#p52085

yes that one is taller than the rest down there, and it has a stadium light, (a bunch of lights on it) not just one like the others.  The other lampposts on LMD have no masonic G's on them.  Except for the ones in that parking lot.  The one right after the 4th birch is the taller one.

If someone wants to follow this link and source, it may contain useful photos... hxxp://collections.lib.uwm.edu/cdm4/ite ... =99&REC=19 Good Luck. WHIW... (1) I like the 'G' (2) I think BP meant a tree as being the tall fifth

Regulus, The lampposts that have the "G" on them are located around the parking lot perimeter of the snack bar.  They are of equal height and have one square-box-shaped light at the top.  There is one stadium-type light nearby...It is a cedar utility post with metal boxes around the base to connect to underground cables. The Milwaukee Sheriffs have a mobile unit (trailer) plugged into it. (They keep a presence on the lakefront to be ready for trouble.) I am not convinced of the "tall proud 5th" being a lamppost. The previous 1st through 4th seemed to be trees.  Why would the 5th be a lamppost? AP

G has to be the letter, because the Painting is for Germany, wonderstone refers to the jewel, and hearth means home, it's home is Germany, and the letter from the country is G.  Perhaps there's a tree with a G. What if BP buried the casque only a small distance down?  Above the cables? -regulus

do these lampposts even light up at night?

however, what are the odds of there being a G on the lightposts, and not being the answer.  Very coincidental.  Hopefully it's not. -regulus

and of course i'll call a digging hotline, like i did last time, they can tell me about the light, what if they could turn that one off?  If they even are working lamps.

animal painter wrote:: Regulus, I am not convinced of the "tall proud 5th" being a lamppost. The previous 1st through 4th seemed to be trees.  Why would the 5th be a lamppost? AP Rethinking the verse and images... I saw google earth images and it seem that our big tree is in fact the fifth tree (very tall by the way)... So... I remember a previous thread about the image in the cape. It's a close match of the tall tree (considering the distance). If you separe the verse like this: Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth. On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. ...the letter isn't necessarily on the tree, is just a confirmer that you will see a letter (The G in the lamppost as we hope) in your way. Is possible to find any pic of this tree matching the image below the cape?

there's something to think about... but it doesn't make much sense, On a proud tall fifth, at it's southern foot.

when i dug at the base of that tree, i did find a white piece of glass, but it was only a small chip.  Also the metal detector detected something, but I thought the key was only ceramic? I only dug down a foot and a half. So AP?  You up for digging at the base of a tree? -regulus

regulus wrote:: there's something to think about... but it doesn't make much sense, On a proud tall fifth, at it's southern foot. On a proud tall (birch) fifth, at it's southern foot.

regulus wrote:: when i dug at the base of that tree, i did find a white piece of glass, but it was only a small chip.  Also the metal detector detected something, but I thought the key was only ceramic? I only dug down a foot and a half. So AP?  You up for digging at the base of a tree? -regulus The key have a metal core... But I think a really good tool here is the GP Radar...

regulus wrote:: however, what are the odds of there being a G on the lightposts, and not being the answer.  Very coincidental.  Hopefully it's not. -regulus There was a discussion almost two years ago concerning the 100 paces below the bridge. At the top of the path was a sign indicating the existence of a Girl Scout Trail.  This trail, was marked in parts with a wooden "G".  I believe that it was more than a mile or two. The thought, at the bottom of the culvert, was that the Girl Scout Trail sign, on or near the Proud Tall Fifth became absent between 1981 and  2004.  The evidence of it existing at all can be seen in other parts of the trail. You can probably find the threads on it looking back to May 2005.  (I think) edit:  see the link hxxp://home.wi.rr.com/phunter1/040515La ... dWalk.html It talks about bird watching in Girl Scout Ravine edit 2: hxxp://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp/re ... hotos.html some very nice photos, not too usefull though

hmmm...  well Trohn, that would make sense also, it would definitely be more visible than the masonic G. But Eljayo, what I meant was, ON A proud tall fifth birch.  What does the ON A refer to if not the G. -regulus

If GPR is the best method, wouldn't it just pick up signals from the large branches?  What if the branches are now covering the casque? Animal Painter, didn't you say that you had a six foot rod to probe the ground with?  I brought one along with me as well when I went, but it wasn't very long.

regulus wrote:: hmmm...  well Trohn, that would make sense also, it would definitely be more visible than the masonic G. But Eljayo, what I meant was, ON A proud tall fifth birch.  What does the ON A refer to if not the G. -regulus I see what you mean...

regulus wrote:: If GPR is the best method, wouldn't it just pick up signals from the large branches?  What if the branches are now covering the casque? Animal Painter, didn't you say that you had a six foot rod to probe the ground with?  I brought one along with me as well when I went, but it wasn't very long.   :bang) GPR produce continuous images (cross section) and no matter what is above (or below) the casque

This is the interesting, very large, multi-trunk tree that Regulus first dug by. It is on the east of LMD far south from the lighthouse area. I am not sure what it is, but it has definitely been there for many years!  If anyone wants to try to identify it, here is a close up of the leaf, too. Maybe it does resemble the tree trunks in the cloak of image 10. AP

that leaf is a birch, i checked when i was down there on the web.  Animal painter, next time you're at the tree look up at the branches, you'll see the resemblance of birch bark. -regulus

I have acquired two aerial photos from a company that did reconstruction on the Lion Bridges.  One from 1995 and one from 2005. The photo from 1995 is very informative! As you can see, the trees on the West side of LMD, appear to be growing down to the sidewalk...trees that are no longer there.  But the sidewalk seems to be in the same place...Whether it is the very same sidewalk is not known yet.  Also note the shoreline is much higher. And the multi-trunk trees on the East side of LMD do not exist as of 1995...(the trees that may have been thought to be clumps of birches...to count to the lamppost area.) I do believe that we can safely discredit those "clump" trees as being the "counting trees". I am more convinced now that the trees B. Preiss used, were on the West side of LMD. I hope to have early photos of the area soon...photos taken by the company that did the planning/redesigning of LMD in the late 1990's. AP

AP, Read back a couple pages, someone said that birches grow a certain amount of inches a year.  Back in 1981, the birches would have just been tiny saplings.  So maybe we just can't see them very well on the photo. -regulus

otherwise, it's back to square one!

animal painter wrote:: I have acquired two aerial photos from a company that did reconstruction on the Lion Bridges.  One from 1995 and one from 2005. The photo from 1995 is very informative! AP AP, I Just want to say... that you are doing a great investigation job!

Thanks Eljayo, I do love a good mystery ! AP

regulus wrote:: G has to be the letter, because the Painting is for Germany, wonderstone refers to the jewel, and hearth means home, it's home is Germany, and the letter from the country is G.  Perhaps there's a tree with a G. I hate to be a downer, but in Germany they don't call their homeland "Germany" but "Deutschland", so their wonderstone would have the letter "D", no?

If I were to find ANY letter on ANY tree in this area, it would be enough! AP

Bringing back old posts from the verse to these questions... stercox Holmes Offline Posts: 122 Re: verse 8 « Reply #92 on: March 21, 2006, 18:07:03 » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Met with Dr. Alfred Bader this morning at the Astor Hotel.  Very nice gentleman, lots of history about the temple Emanuel and about the Woman Playing Harpsichord.  Interestingly, he handed me a printout from an e mail from KP UNC to him, which he found very mysterious.  I about LOL when I saw it.  And then explained the purpose of the inquiry.  Here is what he told me:  He just acquired the painting in 2004 from a man in Coppenhagen and resold it.  It was not in Milwaukee, in 1982.  Nor has it ever in the Emanuel temple or his home.  Dead end.  The beating of the world could refer to the Emanuel temple still.  The temple is across Kenwood from Mitchell Hall, thus "bookending" Kenwood, like a trail head.  My theory is that much of the first part has to do with moving you down the 5 or so blocks toward Lake Park.  The names of the streets are named after people who lived here back during the construction of the park.  Spent an hour at a local book store researching the history of the streets.  The only one I cannot connect to a past resident is Marietta.  And Marietta may be our woman with harpsichord in some way.  I think Blight may have it--Lincoln Memorial cast in copper on the back side of a penny represents Lincoln Memorial Drive which is the border of Lake Park.  Ascend the 92 steps--THERE ARE 92 STEPS--a perfect count-- IF you only count the steps connected directly to the staircase (the walls that define it).  There is a clear demarcation of where the staircase begins and ends.  This does not include any steps approaching the staircase.  The stairs are the original steps, nothing added or deleted, this is confirmed by a member of the Friends of Lake Park. Report to moderator    Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- stercox stercox Holmes Offline Posts: 122 Re: verse 8 « Reply #93 on: March 21, 2006, 18:32:51 » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- The compass has to be North Point Lighthouse.  There is nothing else in or close to the park that is like a compass.  Here is my theory about the ravines.  There are foot paths down in the ravines which take you down hill SE toward Lincoln Memorial Drive moving under the Lion Bridges.  One ravine has been nick named the "Girl Scout Ravine", this from the general manager of the Lake Park Bistro at the top of the Grand Staircase.  There is a metal marker embedded in a tree at the top of the hill (GS ravine trail head)  it reads  Milwaukee County Park Systems--Girl Scout Trail.  I believe there may have been another marker like this on a tree at the other end of the Girl Scout ravine.  Standing under the Bridge in the first ravine, 100 paces takes you out of the ravine into a flattened grassy area.  There are 5 solid tall trees in this area (one at the end of the trail) and they standout.  Moving west from the 1st ravine and that first tree  toward the 2nd ravine (the Girl Scout trail) you pass three big trees to get to the 5th tree, the biggest monster tree, which if a Girl Scout sign was attached to a tree at the end (like one was at the trail head), it would be this tree.  Is it buried under there??--did some minor digging--very rooty and very open to the public.  Nothing found.  Of course--its all specularion.  Would take some excavation work, the tree of course is 24 years older and bigger than it was.  I think the trees are poplar or cottonwood, but not birch.  Oddly enough--I did find a penny tail side (Lincoln Memorial side) up minted in------you got it---1982. Report to moderator    Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- stercox stercox Holmes Offline Posts: 122 Re: verse 8 « Reply #94 on: March 21, 2006, 18:41:32 » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Suggested areas for further research: Milwaukee County Park Systems Girl Scout Trail markers What is 200?  (total stair count does not approach 200 at all, it about 50 ish shy) Birch trees that don't look like birch trees--could BP just not know his trees?  (Birch = From the Old German "Birka" meaning "Bright") Who is the Harpsichord Woman? Where is that darn casque?? Report to moderator    Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- stercox Starthinker Lewis Offline Posts: 21 Re: verse 8 « Reply #95 on: March 21, 2006, 19:32:47 » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Two questions, why are you all so sure of "G" being the letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth?  I know Germany is believed to go along with this verse but a letter could also be an e, r, m, a, n, or y as well.  There are no palms in Wisconson so it can't be buried under a giant W.  (sorry, I couldn't resist)  And could a proud, tall 5th be a musical reference?  Alcohol reference? Also, I thought the grand staircase had two semi-circles at the bottom, CC = 200 (forest_blight's post brought this up). If the staircase is a sure bet, couldn't we just skip how we got there?  I mean, those clues may have been helpful in 82 when there was no internet, but now is a different story. Report to moderator    Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finder of the world's rarest snail. Starthinker Lewis Offline Posts: 21 Re: verse 8 « Reply #96 on: March 21, 2006, 19:35:43 » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote from: forest_blight on March 21, 2006, 16:53:18 Quote Now, I'm new at this but don't some of the other verses and pictures reference Lincoln or streets named Lincoln? Indeed. V12 referred to a sitting statue of Lincoln in Chicago. I read all the forums in one sitting so I may be confused, but didn't one picture have a profile of Lincoln and didn't the San Francisco park border on a Lincoln street?  I'd hate to have to read all these forums again.... Report to moderator    Logged -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Finder of the world's rarest snail. forest_blight Menagerier God(dess) Offline Posts: 859 Re: verse 8 « Reply #97 on: March 21, 2006, 21:37:12 » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Quote Interestingly, he handed me a printout from an e mail from KP UNC to him, which he found very mysterious.  I about LOL when I saw it.  And then explained the purpose of the inquiry. stercox, you are amazing! I plead guilty for the KP UNC e-mail; I thought it sounded like a great lead so I sent Bader Fine Arts an inquiry through their web page. Didn't realize it would go to the man himself, but I am glad it was good for a laugh. Sorry to hear the harpsichord painting is a dead end, though. Quote The names of the streets are named after people who lived here back during the construction of the park. Spent an hour at a local book store researching the history of the streets. The only one I cannot connect to a past resident is Marietta. And Marietta may be our woman with harpsichord in some way. Can we assume that the three who lived there are Downer, Hackett, and Shepard? There is a Summit Ave. between Hackett and Shepard, but it evidently wasn't named after a person. I will do what I can to find out who Marietta was. The information was available to BP in 1982, so it shouldn't be impossible to find today. And it is extremely exciting to finally get the 92 steps confirmed! Quote There are 5 solid tall trees in this area (one at the end of the trail) and they standout.  Moving west from the 1st ravine and that first tree  toward the 2nd ravine (the Girl Scout trail) you pass three big trees to get to the 5th tree, the biggest monster tree, which if a Girl Scout sign was attached to a tree at the end (like one was at the trail head), it would be this tree.  Is it buried under there?? I'd bet a lot that the casque is under that very tree, stercox! Good job. And it may not matter that it isn't a birch. The verse reads: Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three {three what? birches or just trees?}, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth {again, fifth what? if "tree," then we're good} At its southern foot The treasure waits. Nothing here says the tree we are looking for is actually a birch. To respond to Starthinker's question, I'm pretty sure the proud, tall fifth refers to a tree, since we encounter a "first" and then "three" more, and we haven't changed nouns yet. Quote What is 200?  (total stair count does not approach 200 at all, it about 50 ish shy) Starthinker is right - the "grand 200" must be the CC-shaped section of stairs. Quote Who is the Harpsichord Woman? I'm all over it. I'll report back. Quote Where is that darn casque?? Under that darn tree! Get a shovel! How long will you be in town? Quote Two questions, why are you all so sure of "G" being the letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth?  I know Germany is believed to go along with this verse but a letter could also be an e, r, m, a, n, or y as well.  There are no palms in Wisconson so it can't be buried under a giant W.  (sorry, I couldn't resist)  And could a proud, tall 5th be a musical reference?  Alcohol reference? That's a good point. I assumed "G" because it is the first letter of Germany, which surely is the wonderstone's hearth. I am going there in May, and uh boy, what a great trip it would be if I could dig... with permission. Or even just take pictures while somebody else digs. I wonder if there are any other forum-readers local to Milwaukee? If not, stercox, could you use your capital to prepare them to expect me in May, and work to get permission for supervised digging?

"At a distance from woman..." Just Southwest of the light house is "St. Mary's" hospital. St. Mary may very well be referred to as "woman" as she represents womanhood in so many cultures. AP

animal painter wrote:: "At a distance from woman..." Just Southwest of the light house is "St. Mary's" hospital. St. Mary may very well be referred to "woman" as she represents womanhood in so many cultures. AP DAMN! At a distance with woman with harpsichord.. silently playing. That could be describing an angel! (or a saint)

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harpsichord Is the Vermeer the painting mentioned by stercox?

check out that link people, scroll down on the wikipedia page, and you'll see a woman with harpsichord

Uh oh, more women with harpsichords... hxxp://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/cgi-b ... m=virginal

Here is a link to an early form of the harpsichord that looks like a harp...the kind that an angel might be seen playing...at St. Mary's Hospital. hxxp://www.sankey.ws/history.html I may have to take a trip to the hospital... AP

but we already know that we need to be in Lake Park, we just need to find those lost birches?  If they're still there, otherwise, the only way to get the casque is with GPR.

To the point...Yes, we need to know where the birch was/is... and yes, we need to be able to see "underground". The next challenge is to find a GPR.

regulus wrote:: but we already know that we need to be in Lake Park, we just need to find those lost birches?  If they're still there, otherwise, the only way to get the casque is with GPR.   :'( The hospital is in the proper location (as the verse goes) to represent the lady with harpsicord. hxxp://columbia-stmarys.com/OPage.asp?PageID=OTH000087 But you are not going to see what was there in 1982. It is purely semantics now to answer the last unsolved piece of this verse. The verse took us from the Domes of Mitchell, past the synagog, *past the hospital*, to the east entrance of the park. We are looking at the right spot.  It is nice to be able to find a resasonable answer for the harpichord wman.

animal painter wrote:: Here is a link to an early form of the harpsichord that looks like a harp...the kind that an angel might be seen playing...at St. Mary's Hospital. hxxp://www.sankey.ws/history.html I may have to take a trip to the hospital... AP AP- something like this.... hxxp://www.catholiccompany.com/product_ ... ?ID=10678#

Not 10 minutes ago, I came into possession of two albums filled with 100's of 4x6 photos of LMD...(street-level photos!) taken before and after the reconstruction of the road in 1999. When I have had the opportunity to go through them, I will share the info. AP

animal painter wrote:: I am so excited!! Not 10 minutes ago, I came into possession of two albums filled with 100's of 4x6 photos of LMD...(street-level photos!) taken before and after the reconstruction of the road in 1999. When I have had the opportunity to go through them, I will share the info. AP *lol* Let us know if there is a photo of a construction worker throwing away a shattered plexigalss box.

Hey all, I know the answer to this question is in the posts but I am working on a library computer and don't have the time to read through all the posts so I was hoping that some of you could help me out. Where have people dug in Lake Park? digger7

Digger, Here is a link to photos taken during the dig in Lake Park in May 2006. hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/quantpsy/ Also look in the thread "verse 8" on pages 15  and 16. Regulus also dug by the large multi-trunk tree at the North Point Snack Bar parking lot exit. AP

What I found, looking at photos from before reconstruction of LMD in 2000, is good news.  At least from Aug. 1996 to June 2000, the area around the "proud tall 5th" was not greatly changed from what is there now. (I do not know if it was changed from 1982-1995.) There was no paved walkway leading from the ravine trail out to the road until some time after June 2000. The surrounding ground looks very similar back then to the way it looks today. This area was the most easily recognized from the earlier photos, because of the presence of the "proud tall 5th" and its adjacent tree...right by the crosswalk . A median has been added to LMD sometime after 2000, but it does not appear that the land on the West side of LMD (by the "PT5th") was removed to widen the road. Here is a photo of the tall proud 5th taken in 1996 hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1184937944

Nice research Animal painter. Thanks for all the extra effort. I am enjoying your pictures and the further Lincoln Memorial research. I think you guys are on the right track.

Wow painter! Great research. How many other photos in that album can you scan and post?

Most of the photos in the albums are of the roadway itself. This photo was the most recognizeable stretch of "trees". I scanned several other photos, but for some reason, I cannot get this program to let me attach them... That is why I resorted to posting on Tweleve and redirecting to that URL. If the "attaching problem" is not resolved, I will find a way to post more photos elsewhere. The most important info gleaned is the fact that our target area seems to be rather "untouched". I noticed the diameter of the Tall Proud 5th appeared to have grown substantially.  Do you think it is possible that the box may actually now be under the tree? AP

AP- Take a look at the photo you posted, look a few feet above the elbow of the tree, on the north side - is that not a girl scout marker?? Just above the sunspot reflecting through the leaves...

Trohn, I have the original photo at home. It will be a better resolution for zooming in on that area. Do you think that they would put a sign up that high to prevent people from removing it? When I first saw this photo, I was trying to find any letter on the trunk of that tree. It will be the finding of a letter on a tall tree (whether it be in a photo or on an actual tree) that will be the final and absolute "clincher" for us.

There is a photo of the Girl Scout marker at the other end of the trail on my webshots page linked above. It was large, white, and obvious, maybe 8 feet off the ground (give or take), and several inches across. If there was a sign on "our" tree, I suspect it would look identical.

animal painter wrote:: Trohn, I have the original photo at home. It will be a better resolution for zooming in on that area. Do you think that they would put a sign up that high to prevent people from removing it? When I first saw this photo, I was trying to find any letter on the trunk of that tree. It will be the finding of a letter on a tall tree (whether it be in a photo or on an actual tree) that will be the final and absolute "clincher" for us. They would have put the sign lower, originally, but with the tree obviously growing as it did, it would not out of the realm of possibilities to be that high then... depending on when it was attached. edit:  There is definitely *SOMETHING* hexagonal attached that high. You'll most likely be able to determine if it is a marker from the original photo. The diggers never had a posted photo of this tree looking up that high .

Tree bark grows out, not up, so the sign would stay at roughly the same height over the years.

That is not always true there is a tree in my backyard that has the remains of a bird feeder, stuck in the bark of the tree, and its about 60 feet up So I guess it depends on the tree.

I researched the history of the Girl Scout Insignia that is embedded in the tree at the beginning of the Ravine trail. It was designed in 1978. I just spoke to the Girl Scout Rep in Milwaukee about the insignia and its use on the Ravine trail on the lakefront.  She said that they discontinued the sponsorship of the trail several years ago, and would have removed any markers...(except for the one which is now deep in the bark of a tree...the one that was photographed by Stercox.) AP

yes, but that would be the first tree you come to after the 100 paces down the trail, cuz you have to pass the compass.  the only way that tree would be the fifth is if you don't pass the compass.  And also, none of those trees are birches. -regulus

animal painter wrote:: I reasearched the history of the Girl Scout Insignia that is embedded in the tree at the beginning of the Ravine trail. It was designed in 1978. I just spoke to the Girl Scout Rep in Milwaukee about the insignia and its use on the Ravine trail on the lakefront.  She said that they discontinued the sponsorship of the trail several years ago, and would have removed any markers...(except for the one which is now deep in the bark of a tree...the one that was photographed by Stercox.) AP So they would have been posted in 1981/2. And, most likely, would have been still posted in 1996. But would probably be removed in present day. So... the evidence exists only in the old photos. Nice work.  See what you can glean form the original.

Here is a close up of the area above the fork in the tree. It is not a Girl Scout insignia, but it may have been something that BP thought looked like a letter "A". (Africa being the country of wonderstone's hearth?) Maybe it's a scar where a limb broke off? AP I still cannot attach photos to my post for some reason... so these are posted on Tweleve. hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1184979392 hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1184979408

hey all, I have spent the last ten days bumming around Milwaukee and I spent a few days at Lake Park trying to figure out the path that the verse lays out.  Everytime I followed the verse I ended up at the same tree that FB and stercox dug at last year.  So needless to say I didn't find it but I do have a few things to report. First, I checked a bunch of different parks and saw absolutely no reason to believe that it is anywhere other than Lake Park.  I didn't expect to but I thought I would be thorough. Secondly, this is a minor point as it doesn't change the location any, I don't think that the two balls the woman in the image is juggling are lawnbowling balls.  I think they are golf tee markers on the golf course right next to the lawnbowling fields.  My rationale is a) the color is right and the same all the time while the only people I saw lawnbowling were using black balls b) tee markers would be there all the time whereas lawnbowling balls would only be there if someone was playing, and c) tee markers come in sets of two while lawnbowling balls come in sets of 3-4(I think) Thirdly, I believe I found the culvert that is referred to in the lines: PASS THE COMPASS AND REACH THE FOOT OF THE CULVERT BELOW THE BRIDGE After climbing the grand staircase you have to cross the golf course in order to get to the stairs that lead down into ravine 1.  At first, I didn't really like this because there is a far easier way to pass the compass.  You just stay on the path that leads around the golf course and pass the compass by crossing the lion's head bridge.  However, from there there is no easy way to get down into the ravine and below the bridge.  It's doable but you could easily fall and hurt yourself climbing down the steeps sides of the ravine.  So I'm sure that BP would have taken (and wanted us to take) the far safer way and cross the golf course and descend into ravine 1 via the stairs at the far end of the ravine.  Once down there just before you reach the lion's head bridge you pass the compass.  You can't see it from there and I don't know whether or not you could see it from there in 1982 but you definitely pass it.  When you are under the lion's head bridge you are standing on a wooden footbridge and holding up the far end of the wooden footbridge is a stonewall.  In that stone wall is the culvert.  It is an old clay pipe that is a drain or channel under the path(which is the definition of a culvert.)  It is actually below (in elevation) both bridges, the lion's head bridge and the wooden footbridge.  It is not directly under either the lion's head bridge or the wooden footbridge.  You would be about 4-5 feet past both bridges when you get to the culvert.  I did not see anything like that below the bridge in ravine 2. If you then walk 100 paces from the culvert(and I took a pace to mean a slightly longer than usual step) you end up at the end of the ravine at the first young birch that shadowrunner has marked on his map. Anyway, that is what I found.  I will probably be back there early next week and be there until the 31st or so if anybody wants to get together and do some searching. digger7

Digger, I agree with your take on getting under the bridge. It was difficult to get down the steep grade leading from the lighthouse to the bottom of the ravine. (I tried both the stairs and the steep hill.) "Pass the compass" can definitely mean...pass to the North of it...under the first Lion Bridge. The trail leading under the first Lion Bridge is made of dirt and stones..."Southeast over rock and soil"... where as the trail under the 2nd Lion Bridge is made of dirt and timbers. Seeing the photos of the Tall Proud 5th tree in 1996, and imagining how much smaller in diameter it would have been in 1982 (14 years earlier!), you can see that the "southern foot" where the box was buried may now actually be under the tree trunk, whose diameter has increased considerably in 25 years! AP

two other things that just came to mind. 1) the red tee markers are the where women tee off from which could explain the woman in the picture. 2) the 2 Girl Scout markers that I saw were half buried under the bark of the trees.  It is possible that the one we are looking for is completely covered in bark.  However, the markers are metal so it should be findable with a  metal detector. digger7

That wooden foot bridge mentioned by the culvert can be seen in the two 'Girl Scout Ravine' photos that I liked a bit ago. They bird watch from it.

Unknown: After climbing the grand staircase you have to cross the golf course in order to get to the stairs that lead down into ravine 1.  At first, I didn't really like this because there is a far easier way to pass the compass.  You just stay on the path that leads around the golf course and pass the compass by crossing the lion's head bridge.  However, from there there is no easy way to get down into the ravine and below the bridge.  It's doable but you could easily fall and hurt yourself climbing down the steeps sides of the ravine.  So I'm sure that BP would have taken (and wanted us to take) the far safer way and cross the golf course and descend into ravine 1 via the stairs at the far end of the ravine.  Once down there just before you reach the lion's head bridge you pass the compass.  You can't see it from there and I don't know whether or not you could see it from there in 1982 but you definitely pass it.  When you are under the lion's head bridge you are standing on a wooden footbridge and holding up the far end of the wooden footbridge is a stonewall.  In that stone wall is the culvert.  It is an old clay pipe that is a drain or channel under the path(which is the definition of a culvert.)  It is actually below (in elevation) both bridges, the lion's head bridge and the wooden footbridge.  It is not directly under either the lion's head bridge or the wooden footbridge.  You would be about 4-5 feet past both bridges when you get to the culvert.  I did not see anything like that below the bridge in ravine 2. Unknown: I agree with your take on getting under the bridge. It was difficult to get down the steep grade leading from the lighthouse to the bottom of the ravine. (I tried both the stairs and the steep hill.) Having been there--I too believe that this is the correct route--even though it seems convuluted.  i also agree with Digger about the women's golf tee markers being the red balls in the picture.  Although for a long time I thought it may be a reference to the Circus Parade that came to Milwaukee in the summer, especially the juggling action--but that is neither here nor there.   With regard to the the proud tall 5th--that tree is definitely a cottonwood tree.  We would either need to concede that BP did not know his trees or the birch reference is not to be taken literally or there really were birch trees in the area.   My concern is that unless we can dig up pictures from the early 80's we may never know.  Many of Wisconsin's birch trees have fallen to disease and may not have been around in the 90's.  I have also looked at some of the birches that grow in my neighborhood and what always strikes me about them is that they tend to branch off a lot into "V" patterns and seldom grow tall and straight, and they never really get that big (tall).  It does make one wonder.  I still believe that our casque is in that area.  You guys are doing a super job.    I love that Animal Painter has gotten old pictures--that is awesome research--and the kind of stuff that still needs to be done to unlock these puzzles.  I applaud you--that you were able to get the girlscouts to talk with you--being from Ohio, I have tried to get them to respond to emails over the last year but have been unsuccessful.   When FB and Pine and all of us dug at that tree we dug as close to the base as is possible without digging under the tree itself.  About 2 feet down you will hit gravel and trash land fill used to back fill this area of the park.  It makes for very difficult digging--it would be so for BP as well.  So when faced with the question if we dug deep enough--its hard to say--the answer is yes if you think BP would not have put forth the effort to dig through all that rock to hide his casque (I kinda think that's the case).  It could be under the tree or under its major root structure which would require a lot of escavation.   I would say--if we could come up with pictures in the early 80's we would be more sure of what needs to be done.  Would they have any archived through the newspaper??  I do like Digger's metal detector thought to uncover the marker--I think its gone---I never really saw an area of the bark that looks dysmorphic or scarred--but then again I wasn't really looking for that either.   I think we are really close--but in order to cap it off--I thinks its back to the Armchair--the research.  Keep it up guys.

I took the photo of the "Tall Proud 5th" from 1996 and zoomed in to focus on the tree trunk. Cropping the "cape" on image #10 and turning it to the same angle, I see a similarity in shape and vertical bark pattern. Remember, this photo is of the tree 14 years after BP buried his box. The younger tree bark would have had an even smoother appearance. The bark today is much older and more deeply creviced. hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1185151174 hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1185151304 AP

animal painter wrote:: I took the photo of the "Tall Proud 5th" from 1996 and zoomed in to focus on the tree trunk. Cropping the "cape" on image #10 and turning it to the same angle, I see a similarity in shape and vertical bark pattern. Remember, this photo is of the tree 14 years after BP buried his box. The younger tree bark would have had an even smoother appearance. The bark today is much older and more deeply creviced. hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1185151174 hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1185151304 AP Really is a match... Even look like a foot... and this "foot" is in south side of the tree. I can't figure out the level of damage done by tree's roots in the casque

That is a very convincing idea AP.  I like it! Maybe "birch" just means tree, like others have suggested.  Maybe he meant something far more complicated than an actual birch tree. But I doubt it.  We should look into it nonetheless. Anyone notice that this verse is very much like directions?  It is so much more ya know... it's not as cryptic as the others. -regulus

regulus wrote:: yes, but that would be the first tree you come to after the 100 paces down the trail, cuz you have to pass the compass.  the only way that tree would be the fifth is if you don't pass the compass.  And also, none of those trees are birches. -regulus

Three reasons BP would not have buried a casque next to a lamp post : 1. Safety. It should be obvious that he would not bury it in a spot where diggers could electrocute themselves. This would have occurred to him at the time, and even if he had no regard for his own life or for the lives of his treasure hunters, he would not want to invite a lawsuit for death or damages. 2. The verse. Read it again. It says: On a proud, tall fifth / At its southern foot / The treasure waits . Lamp posts do not have "feet" in quite the same way trees do (I'm excluding the hooved one in Montreal as an exception to this rule). Neither are they typically described as "proud and tall." That must be one majestic lamp post to be so described. Was he being poetic? About an unremarkable concrete lamp post?? I doubt it. 3. The location. What better place to be discovered in the act of burying treasure than next to a busy city street? It seems like an out-of-the-way location would be preferable, and such spots abound in Lake Park. Why that particular spot instead of something more secluded? Three reasons BP would have buried a casque next to a lamp post : 1. The G. That darn G... 2. Utility garb . We know (and I forget where we learned this) that BP dressed as a utility worker to bury at least one of these casques. Perhaps it was this one, given the proximity to a deadly electrical conduit. 3. Okay, I admit it, I can't think of a third good reason to bury it next to a lamp. It's just a bad place to bury treasure. C'mon, argue with me.

FB- Here is your third reason he would bury it next to a lamp post: (3)  He likely did so in Houston.

I realized after Animal Painter's photos from the 90's, that it couldn't be next to a lamppost.  Also, I'm sure BP knew his trees, don't you think that he would have researched that?  Otherwise he wasn't really prepared.  However, I don't think that the trees that you all dug at previously are the correct ones.  If you pass the compass and go below the lion bridge, then walk the 100 paces to the tree, the tree is the big one, the proud tall fifth!  Am I right?! What about that other path that Shadowrunner took?  The one that took him across the golf course?  That one makes you pass the compass, go below a bridge where a culvert is, and once you travel southeast 100 paces, you reach a birch!  How about it? -regulus

regulus wrote:: However, I don't think that the trees that you all dug at previously are the correct ones.  If you pass the compass and go below the lion bridge, then walk the 100 paces to the tree, the tree is the big one, the proud tall fifth!  Am I right?! What about that other path that Shadowrunner took?  The one that took him across the golf course?  That one makes you pass the compass, go below a bridge where a culvert is, and once you travel southeast 100 paces, you reach a birch!  How about it? If you look at shadowrunner's map(the link is on the first page of this thread) the proud tall fifth that we are talking about is at the very end of Ravine 2.  It is the area marked with the red asterick on the map.  When you get to the culvert in Ravine 1, if you take 100 paces you get to the end of the Ravine and there is a tree there that Shadowrunner notes as the first young birch(it is in the pictures that he took that are on the same website as the map).  This tree is followed by 3 large and obvious trees leading up to the largest of the 5 trees.  This last one is the tree that we are calling the proud tall fifth. As for the other path that he took, I found that cut birch that he talked about and if anything he underestimated the size.  It was huge.  But I didn't see a letter of wonderstone's hearth.  Of course it could be on the side that is laying on the ground.

Howdy.  Been awhile, and I haven't kept up with the Milwaukee posts much lately, but I popped in today and wanted to say a few things. 1.  I was in Milwaukee for work (1 night) about a month ago. 2.  In the evening of 6/14, I drove to Lake Park for a look around. 3.  The turf at the 2006 dig has recovered nicely. 4.  I went to the "huge birch" (the one with many branches) at the top end of the snack bar parking lot.  It might be a birch, but I'm not positive. 5.  I inspected the tree and the ground around it (with a flashlight) pretty closely. 6.  Being decently dressed and making no effort to hide (and smiling), the deputy bought the "I just like trees" explanation. 7.  There's definitely a "G" carved in the trunk.  It's quite old and barely legible, but it's there.  There are several other letters, too, like from folks carving their names or "DAN hearts GINNY" in the trunk (although that's not exactly it, IIRC). 8.  The southern foot has a pretty obvious "clear" triangular area bounded on 2 sides by roots and 1 side by the curb.  But I bet there are a lot of underground roots. Pine

Pine, That would make me very excited...if I knew there were any other trees on the East side of LMD, between the Lions Bridges and that parking lot when BP was there. But the photos from 1996 (pre reconstruction) show an absolutely clear stretch of sandy beach from the point of our first "Tall Proud 5th" to the snack bar parking lot....not one little sapling was growing 11 years ago. Seeing that clump of tree trunks, even today, does not bring to mind the words "tall proud" in the same way that the first TP5th does. I am aware that I may be completely wrong... AP

Yeah, I still prefer the original dig site, too.  Just thought the G was interesting. I have seen a couple of the pics you found.  Are all of them (or more of them) posted anywhere yet?

digger7 wrote:: If you look at shadowrunner's map(the link is on the first page of this thread) the proud tall fifth that we are talking about is at the very end of Ravine 2.  It is the area marked with the red asterick on the map.  When you get to the culvert in Ravine 1, if you take 100 paces you get to the end of the Ravine and there is a tree there that Shadowrunner notes as the first young birch(it is in the pictures that he took that are on the same website as the map).  This tree is followed by 3 large and obvious trees leading up to the largest of the 5 trees.  This last one is the tree that we are calling the proud tall fifth. As for the other path that he took, I found that cut birch that he talked about and if anything he underestimated the size.  It was huge.  But I didn't see a letter of wonderstone's hearth.  Of course it could be on the side that is laying on the ground. If you go down the first ravine you wouldn't have passed the compass!  Right?!

Reg, You would have passed the compass on your right hand side as you walked in Ravine #1 headed SE. AP

Here is a recent photo of the southern foot of the multi-trunk tree in the snack bar parking lot.  It is located hundreds of yards from the Lion Bridge area and is on the opposite side of the LMD. Pine, where on the tree did you see the carved letters? I have a photo that has enough resolution to zoom in on any of the trunks from the South side. AP hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1185313090

If I remember correctly , it's carved at just about chest-height or lower, on the "inboard" face of one the trunks.  In other words, I think it was roughly facing towards the center of the grouping of trunks, as opposed to out.  It's part of somebody's name, and was carved on there quite a while back.  It's now a pattern or scar in the bark, but was clearly a G.  It's above the top cut-off line of your picture.  I also think it was facing roughly South. Pine

Pine, You were right. On the inside of one trunk, facing south, I found a "heart" in the photo I took on 06/15/07.  Good searching!  I did not see it when I was right there!  It may or may not be the right tree, but it was exciting to find it. hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1185334517 AP

I put several of the photos from 1996-2000 on Webshots. They are not all of the specific Ravine site that we have been looking at, but it gives you a feel for the area 11 years ago...before the reconstruction of LMD. The Bradford Beach House is about half way between the Tall Proud 5th and the multi-trunk carved tree by North Point Snack Bar. The first photo in the Webshot album is of another multi-trunk tree on the West side of LMD, several 100 feet south of the TP5th. According to a recent aerial photo, this multi-trunk tree is gone. AP hxxp://tinyurl.com/395wbu

Thanks for posting the album. Again, no smoking gun, but as one who has scoured a particular site over years and years ina sitting, a historical perspective is invaluable. *lol*  Always need to remind myself that there are no Peric victories in Treasure Hunts.

Describing a series of old (even in 1981) cottonwood trees as "young birches" is problematic, since cottonwoods look nothing like birches. Here is another idea - the descriptor "young" may not be a reference to age at all, but rather a particular species of birch, Young's birch : www.paghat.com/youngscatkins.html

see? weeping birch, that is the kind of birch tree across the street!!!!!!  But they weren't there in 1981, however, we do know that they can still grow in the area!!! -regulus

Since everyone is in such a birchy mood... The word "birch" comes from the old German (appropriate for this casque) "Birka", meaning "Bright". And on another note.  The proud tall 5th as identified (albeit a cottonwood) is really an assumption.  Coming out of Ravine 1 into this area--we have never identified the first of these 5 trees, the all allusive first young birch.  We see the "west three" and the biggest in that copse assuming it to be the PT5th.  These 4 trees still exist.  I remember when we were digging, Pine found a decently sized divot in the ground, a place that had settled where the first tree might have really stood.  You can still find that divot today.  It alone could have been a birch.  The verse allows for the others to be trees unrelated to birches.  In fact, birch used as an adjective in this verse assumes the noun to be "tree", just as "pass three" and "on a proud tall, fifth" would also then assume the same noun "trees or tree".  There may have been only one birch in this copse and in comparing size,  birch vs cottonwood, the birch would have looked diminutive, that is, young. Lastly, someone in this world has to have a picture of that area from the 80's.  Our best chance of finding such a person would be to concentrate on the Milwaukee natives.  I propose running an ad in the local paper for finding such information.  That would be our best chance of getting a hit and we have team members there that could act as contacts.  I would not endorse connecting the inquiry to treasure hunting or any wording that would promote digging in Lake Park by other parties.  I'd be willing to invest a little money here to see if we could take this next step, or we could just continue to argue the semantics some more (see paragraph above ).  What say you?

sounds like a good idea! I was at my local Border's book and music store the other day.  And there was a book on display, titled "Historic Photos of Milwaukee" this caught my attention, so I picked it up, and I checked the index, nothing about Lake Park.  The photos go back as as far as the 1800's! Up until 1960 I think.  It did however have plenty of pictures of Milwaukee's City Hall!!!!!!! Pretty cool!  Lemme know if I should take another look! -regulus

hey all, I was back up in Milwaukee last week.  Not much new to report.  I used my limited knowledge of trees(garnered mostly by googling images of birch and cottonwood leaves) to confirm that the proud tall fifth tree and the not so tall nor proud fourth tree are both cottonwood.  However, those first three trees are not.  They look like birch leaves but the trees are so tall that I couldn't get a really good look at them but they are at least birch-like.  I did notice one thing when I was looking at some paper birches in another park.  It seemed to me that as paper birches get older their bark changes from that white papery bark to a more gnarled texture that looks more like the bark on the first 3 trees at the end of Ravine 1. digger7

According to the verse, the type of tree (that the fifth is) is open.  Do I read this right?  Has this been said already?

Johann, That is the consensus. I spent 2 hours in the Milwaukee Public Library today.  They have a room dedicated to Milwaukee history. It includes books and donated photos.  A few of the Lakefront photos of the Bradford Beach area did not give any new information.  (They were from 1957.) The curator of the Milwaukee County Historical Society says they have photos that are from about 50 years ago, nothing from the 70's or 80's yet.  She says they get donated items after people die, and these decades of photos are still in peoples' albums.  (Her words, not mine...) I have also contacted the "Lake Park Friends" Association to see if they have a photo archive. Haven't heard back from them yet. Looking at the Image #10 again, the tree trunks pictured on the underside of the cape have horizontal "birch-type" markings.  They could represent 5 tree trunks, or they could represent a clump-birch that could have been a recognizable landmark...that may not be there now. The topside of the cape most definitely looks like tree bark, but not birch...another landmark. AP

Last September I visited family in the Milwaukee area. We spent a morning looking around Lake Park. I know this is probably review of what is already widely known, but here is what we found. Walk 100 paces . Four of us started walking from directly under the first Lion Bridge. Each of us stepped out our own 100 paces.  Interestingly, all four of us ended up at almost the same spot. It seemed to confirm the connection to the next verse, To the first young birch . Sure enough, from the landing area, there was a good size established tree standing to our right (southwest). It was a little smaller (younger) than the next four more prominent trees. This is a picture of where we landed. It is the landing just before the open area by the road. We also took 100 paces from the second Lion Bridge. About 80 paces put us at the curb to Lincoln Memorial Drive. We all relaxed in the shade of the “tall fifth”, took some compass readings, and observed the evidence from the May dig. I broke out the metal detector, to see if there were any leftover nails from a sign. My scan was from waist high to about 9 feet high. I found nothing in my scan.

If you return to the very beginning of this thread (only a year old), you will encounter a very interesting account (with photos) by Shadowrunner. This guy is definitely worth listening to, as he is a finder of one of the only 2 casques discovered so far. You can read about his hunt here: hxxp://troll-werks.com/Millwaukee%20site.htm Maybe reviewing this will inspire someone. Maybe if enough people make it to Milwaukee at one time, they can turn over that felled tree and see if there is a big "G" carved in it...

Unknown: And on another note.  The proud tall 5th as identified (albeit a cottonwood) is really an assumption.  Coming out of Ravine 1 into this area--we have never identified the first of these 5 trees, the all allusive first young birch.  We see the "west three" and the biggest in that copse assuming it to be the PT5th.  These 4 trees still exist.  I remember when we were digging, Pine found a decently sized divot in the ground, a place that had settled where the first tree might have really stood.  You can still find that divot today.  It alone could have been a birch.  The verse allows for the others to be trees unrelated to birches.  In fact, birch used as an adjective in this verse assumes the noun to be "tree", just as "pass three" and "on a proud tall, fifth" would also then assume the same noun "trees or tree".  There may have been only one birch in this copse and in comparing size,  birch vs cottonwood, the birch would have looked diminutive, that is, young. I have also thought of another asumption about the PT5th this morning.  For argument's sake--you come out of Ravine 1 back in 1980-81 and there is a birch tree in that area, its the only birch in the area and is the start of our tree count.  [Let's also say that the birch died off due to disease as there are currently no birches in this area today].  Pass three traveling west----just west of the birch are a line of trees (let's say 5 cottonwoods instead of the 4 that you see today)--you are to pass three of them.  The first of the three is the missing tree in that line, the settled divot area where a tree once stood (that Pine observed)--then you pass two more.  At the PT5th, you dig.  The verse only indicates which tree he picked at which to bury the casque.  Our assumption is that the last tree in that line is the PT5th.  But in this scenario, that may be a 6th tree and we have been doing our digging at the wrong tree and should be at its neighbor.  Although that neighboring tree is not as big as the tree on the end--its still darn big still meets the requirements of the verse of being proud and tall.   Of course this is all speculative.   But I cannot shake the fact that a rather larger tree once stood in that same line near the exit of Ravine 1--that is now missing--and in remembering the divot and settled area, it seems that it would have been a tree of similar size to the cottonwoods there and that a young birch would never have left such a settled area.  An arguement could be made about the "G" sign being on the neighboring tree instead of on the end tree nearer to the exit for Ravine 2--but the sign did not necessarily need to be on the end.  Finally, I also cannot shake the cape image being the image of the PT5th (as most of you cannot either).  In the cape image--the tree has a heavy curve to it, especially as it narrows toward the top (near her shoulder in the image).  Looking at the tree line photos again--some of these trees ( except the end tree) are curved in this manner, and that would include the neighboring tree.   Again--all speculation--but possible--just throwing it out there.

Forest, I took your post to heart and gave Shadowrunner's site a very thorough examination.  This morning, I spent 5 hours tracing and retracing the steps he shared.  There are discrepancies I could not account for, but what made me think he was in the right area was the presence of the two red balls. hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1185734152 I took a picture of those two red balls in the golf course area. They are visible when you are standing by the very large cut-down birch tree. I measured the birch on the ground.  The 2 trunks measured approximately 26 and 30 feet tall. (And that does not account for the top segments of the trunks which must have been  hauled away or "chipped" when the tree was cut down.  They may have been another 10 to 20 feet tall. AP

Excellent work, AP. I am not a golfer. Can someone explain what those red balls are for, and whether or not they (or ones like them) would have been present in 1981?

the red balls are for the place at which women begin their drive.  Which would explain why there is a woman in the picture. I also like the idea of a bunch of us being there and moving the big birch, to see if there's a G on it.

hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1185802129 Here I am standing on the edge of the Lake Park golf course by a place where a very large stump was ground out. (See the two red balls in the grass?) It was not very recently done. (Maybe this is why there was no stump near the cut birch) There is a "path" that leads away from the stump headed toward the woods...and the cut birch. It appears to me that a tree trunk was dragged in that direction. The path ends before it gets to the tree line, so it does not lead directly to the cut-birch. (Which is about 40 ft. away from the ground out stump) If this is the place the TP5th stood when BP buried his box, it would have been much easier for him to not be seen, rather than right on LMD. I will post more pictures on Webshots. AP (I guess I have to learn how to embed photos)

Hey AP, does that golf tee spot have a number?  Usually there are 18 holes on a course.  I was wondering if those red balls are on the fifth hole.. Boogie

Boogieman, I will have to try putting the aerial photo in the album on Webshots.  Can't seem to get an attachment to load anymore. AP

animal painter wrote:: hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1185842905 Hi AP, This link doesn´t work... BTW, I like your tweleve´s avatar

Here is the link to Webshots for the Lake Park golf course cut birch photos. AP hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/album/56 ... good-times

Eljayo, The aerial photo is now in the Webshots album at: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/album/56 ... good-times AP

I like this spot, just a question... How to interpretate " Pass the compass "?

as an interested bystander I was curious about this one too I couldnt figure out how they were going from lighthouse to compass. until I read in another thread that the name of the lighthouse is the North Point Lighthouse and the light dawned for doesnt a compass point North.

I think eljayo is point out that the new route - to the felled birch by the golf course - doesn't involving passing the light house, so we would be required to interpret that line differently.

forest_blight wrote:: I think eljayo is point out that the new route - to the felled birch by the golf course - doesn't involving passing the light house, so we would be required to interpret that line differently. Yes!, With this new route, we have to rethink this part of the verse.

Lady in P10 seems to like this spot too

As I have always like that the jewels in the image are positioned such that where you need to look in the dig site to find the proper spot, if the two balls were reversed, the lady turned around, the jewel would be directly over the stump. edit:  But the thing that I can not explain away is: "Below the bridge" "walk 100 paces" There is one famous bridge here (Lions) that happens to span walkable ravines AND the ravines can be paced out in almost exactly one hundred steps. (in a south eastern direction) Compass or no compass, we are lead like lambs to under-neath the lions.

Trohn, If what you say holds true, then we know we must look for the exact dig site by a multiple-trunk birch... according to the placement of the jewel at the base of the multi-trunks in the drawing in the cape! AP

animal painter wrote:: Trohn, If what you say holds true, then we know we must look for the exact dig site by a multiple-trunk birch... according to the placement of the jewel at the base of the multi-trunks in the drawing in the cape! AP It is only a theory (that can proven only by finding the casques) but to reply to your thoughts, yes, it would seem so.

Trohn wrote:: It is only a theory (that can proven only by finding the casques) but to reply to your thoughts, yes, it would seem so. Trohn, I like your theory. (I've to admit that I dismiss this thought time ago) How do you explain the jewel location in P4 and P5? I was trying to follow this theory with casques that was found, but cant see the correspondence...

I was looking at the golf course on Local.live.com and I saw something interesting. 1st off, does this verse take you to the golf course?  Sorry, I missed something, can somebody tell me how?  Because if it does, and the walkway from the staircase is part of it, than maybe Pass three, staying west means pass the #3 Hole, make a right off of that path which is west and that would take you to the tee off spot for the #5 Hole.  looking from the bird's eye view, if you know golf, you can see the first hole starts at the club house with the tee off.  The tee off for the 2nd hole should be next to the Green (the flag) of hole #1.  If you follow that pattern, the fifth hole is just past the three hole off the path coming from the staircase. I'd show you the pic, but I can't down load off of Local.live.   My point, maybe, just maybe, the three and the fifth are not trees, but part of the golf course holes.  There are usually 18 of them.  To me, eljayo's pic looks like the 5 hole.

Boogieman, I like your idea...but... I have an update on the ground out stump. I contacted the person in charge of Lake Park maintenance, and she said that the tree that used to be there was a 160 year old Basswood (also known as a Linden tree). It was taken down about a year ago. She has been with the Park for several years and was not there when the large birch tree was cut down. AP

Well, it's not likely that the proud tall birch tree was cut down and then hauled far away from where it was removed.  I'd think its former location would be very close to the stack of logs. Also, the stump would have left a hole where the tree once stood.  There's a huge hole in my backyard where a tree was removed, and the spot has even caved in a bit after being filled in.  Maybe this is something that could be discovered while probing the ground in the area of the log stack.

animal painter wrote:: Trohn, If what you say holds true, then we know we must look for the exact dig site by a multiple-trunk birch... according to the placement of the jewel at the base of the multi-trunks in the drawing in the cape! AP It's possible that the fallen proud, tall fifth birch (the one that's cut into logs) could have looked like this: hxxp://www.cofnod.org.uk/pictures/piclib/Birch.JPG No telling, though, since it's in pieces.

BigMatty, I looked all around the logs...even took note as to how the main trunk was lying, trying to figure out where it originally stood. I saw no big stump nearby in the woods. If the tree were standing in the woods when it was cut down, they would not have dragged it far or ground out the stump.  The hollowed out center indicates that it may have been ready to fall, and was taken down before it fell on some golfers. This all may be of no consequence, since it has been pointed out that we are more naturally drawn to the Lion Bridge area by the verse. AP

boogieman wrote:: I was looking at the golf course on Local.live.com and I saw something interesting. 1st off, does this verse take you to the golf course?  Sorry, I missed something, can somebody tell me how?  Because if it does, and the walkway from the staircase is part of it, than maybe Pass three, staying west means pass the #3 Hole, make a right off of that path which is west and that would take you to the tee off spot for the #5 Hole.  looking from the bird's eye view, if you know golf, you can see the first hole starts at the club house with the tee off.  The tee off for the 2nd hole should be next to the Green (the flag) of hole #1.  If you follow that pattern, the fifth hole is just past the three hole off the path coming from the staircase. I'd show you the pic, but I can't down load off of Local.live.   My point, maybe, just maybe, the three and the fifth are not trees, but part of the golf course holes.  There are usually 18 of them.  To me, eljayo's pic looks like the 5 hole. I agree that the tee box markers indeed look like they are for the 5th hole.  Also someone mentioned that the red markers are for the ladies tee box, but this is a Par 3 course so I doubt there are more than one tee box for each hole.

I have had a "breakthrough" in Milwaukee! I searched again in Lake Park, with my grandson, for several hours on Saturday evening, in the rain. We took an unexpected tack and found a tree with a "G" on it! (My grandson must be a lucky charm...as well as a budding treasure hunter. He was so excited!) It took all of my self-control to not start digging with my bare hands!  (Also the thought of being arrested was good motivation to refrain.) It was agony to have to wait until Monday to contact the Milwaukee Park Authorities to get permission to dig. The previous head of the Park System, that was familiar with the first diggers, has since retired.  So I started all over again with new contacts. Today, they finally granted permission for me to dig on Saturday.  So, with the help of "local muscles" and my grandson, I will be unearthing the Milwaukee casque. (positive confession there...) I will take plenty of pictures of the area and the step-by-step activity and put it all on the Webshots. There may not be any jewels left to award, but my grandson will remember his "summer adventure" and his trophy-casque. AP I put a photo of the "G" tree at the end of the Lake Park golf course album. hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/album/560089889QLBASy

AP, this is a monumental find (if you're right!!). How about a close-up of that G? I wish you luck!

Forest, A larger cropped photo of the "G" has been added to the Lake Park Golf Course album. The tree was wet after the rain. It made the "G" stand out more. AP

WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!    SWEET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!  FINALLY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! GREAT WORK!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I'll keep cross fingers for you AP  :app) (close to soccer field...??)

Oh wow!  I rarely check these boards anymore, as my casque was quashed, and I fell into despair, but I was lurking today and saw this. Fantastic news, and well done!  I sincerely hope that you unearth a third casque.  It would make my day year.

SHAZAM! AP - where is this tree located?  how could we find it from any of another landmark?

Trohn...and others All will be disclosed...maps, photos, logic... AP

If it's under a tree, I will eat my hat!  And yours AP.  Kinda hungry anyway. Good luck to U.        Boogie

I just check Lake Park on Google Maps and I think they must have just updated their satellite photos.  Last time I looked you couldn't really see anything as all the leaves were in the way but in the photo up there now most of the trees are leaveless and it provides a MUCH better view.

the tree may be tall, but what makes it proud? Again Congratulations! -regulus

Reg, I also question the use of the description "proud". It may be that the tree was more upright then and tall by comparison to the existing younger trees in 1982. AP

If you had treasure at your feet, you'd be proud too!

Today's the day!!!!!!!!  Am I correct?  Good Luck! -regulus

i checked webshots, AP has posted the pics, doesn't look like she found anything. Interesting though, but where's the birch and everything?  Also, if you look at the pictures, maybe AP should have dug into the wall, like dig down, then dig into the wall of dirt, below the stones.  Then you would be next to the tree. Good work anyway, the casque is in the darn park somewhere. -regulus

There was no joy in Milwaukee today. The tree I found was North of the Ravine 1 trail exit. I still stayed west...but headed North.  There was a tree that looked like a "Red Birch" at the exit of the trail...It may have been the young-birch. As for today: We got to the Park at 7 AM and dug for over 8 hours, before having to put all of the dirt back.  It was going to rain. The place that looked like the "perfect spot" was not diggable... (the dirt area on top of the rock wall.) There was about an inch of dirt on top, then nothing but rock and cement-like material. I searched for cracks to pry and lift slabs of rock, to get under it to dig, but there were no seams.  I do not know if this layer was always present. Short of dismantling the rock wall, there was no way to dig in that area. The southern foot is in that area...according to the compass. But we decided to extend the southern-foot radius outward to the outside of the wall.  At least that area was diggable. If BP used only a shovel, and was able to dig down past three feet in a relatively short time, he must have been Superman!  We had every imaginable digging tool, and the going was very hard. So, for now, the casque is still underground. AP Here is the Webshot address to see the photos. Be sure to read the captions. hxxp://community.webshots.com/album/560254086AAGQku

Great job AP...

Using AP's find of the 'G' tree I traced the path she followed on Google Maps and realized that if you start at the Grand Staircase the path is circle....just like the one in image 10.  Which means that I think the tree we are looking for is closer to the Grand Staircase(which is about the last place in the park that I would have expected it to be but it does explain the circuitous nature of the path that BP set for us.)  Also(and this is just speculation) PASS THREE might mean we have to pass three trees that have G's on them.  There are at least two in that direction that I know of, the one that AP found and the Girl Scout tree at the end of the Parking Lot Ravine.  Or it could mean 3 birch trees going in the direction of the Grand Staircase.  And STAYING WEST I am pretty sure just means to stay on the west side of LMD. So I am going back to Milwaukee tomorrow(Sunday) to have another look around. d7

My theory at this time is; that the retaining wall was built long ago to prevent the land from eroding away from the tree roots on the hillside. The soil at the top of the retaining wall was "capped" with concrete to shed water runoff and prevent further erosion...thus saving the trees on the hillside. If BP buried the casque before this "capping" step was taken, our treasure may  be entombed under concrete. AP

AP, is it your opinion then that the wall predates 1981?

Forest, I do think that this retaining wall was built before BP buried his casque.  But...The only way to know for sure, is to get photographic or documented evidence. This is where more research is called for. AP

From the Lake Park Friends website: In 2002 LPF engaged naturalist Richard Barloga to inventory vegetation in the ravines and on the park bluffs. Flowers, grasses, sedges, shrubs, and trees were inventoried, and, in some cases, mapped. A map which highlights the bluffs and ravines was provided by the Parks Dept.; this map was enhanced by Lake Park Friends' Nature and History Committees in order to provide historical and nature education to park users as well as to guide future park restorations. The publications utilizing this map, and completed in early 2003, are: Lake Park Tree Walk A History Walk Through Lake Park Birds of Lake Park The Lake Park History Map was completed in 2002. Relevant?

Possibly.

I went back up to MIlwaukee to test my circle theory.  Nothing new came of it however.  I checked from the end of Ravine 1 all the way back to the Grand Staircase starting at the treeline and going about 5 feet into the woods and found nothing resembling a letter from wonderstone's hearth other than the G that AP found and of course the Girl Scout Marker at the end of the Parking lot Ravine. One thought that I did have is that the huge cut birch that Shadowrunner found is probably the multi-trunk birch that is depicted in her cloak.  As far as I can tell it is the only multi-trunk white paper birch in the whole park.  It is alot bigger than the one in her cloak but 25 years ago it probably would have been about the right size.  It doesn't help with locating the treasure but it is another confirmer that we are in the right area. d7

I just received an email from the Lake Park manager. After speaking to the landscape architects, she believes that the rock wall was added in the late 80's or early 90's. ********************************************* This has since been contradicted by a a first-person conversation with a retired Milwaukee Park Landscape Architect in 05/2008, who said that the retaining walls along LMD have been there much earlier than 1980. AP

I'm pretty confident you've got the right spot, AP. This will take a lot of patience and vigilance. Or wilhouse's backhoe.

dang!!!!!!!!!  i hate it when that happens!!!

Today, I did an extensive examination of the wall and the stone layers. I just added a diagram to the "Dig" album on Webshots, showing the unseen stone layers of the wall and within its confines. hxxp://community.webshots.com/album/560254086AAGQku If this is the correct location, the casque is safe within its stone encasement until the wall falls down. If it is not the correct location, then someone may yet find another tree with a letter on it...in a better digging place. AP

More searching of the area on LMD has brought this multi-trunk tree to my attention.  I believe it is just a confirmation marker rather than "the tree" because there is no obvious letter on it. hxxp://community.webshots.com/album/560414582bTfTnE If we want to account for the multi-trunk tree under the cape in Image 10, this one is a good candidate. The only problem is, it has no horizontal bars in the bark. Can a tree outgrow that kind of marking? (or were they ever really there, or are they just artistic license?) The trunk configuration and number, the tree's age and location, all give a good indication that this may be the tree that was photographed in 1981 and given to the artist to be worked into the painting. AP

Labor-Day Weekend hunting... As much as I love the "G" on the tree on LMD...seeing the location of the multi-trunk tree (maybe a location confirmer)... I thought it would be a good idea to see what trees would be seen if you had to walk past the multi-trunk tree. The second Girl Scout marker tree is on the edge of the Soccer Field. The tree line along the soccer field has several birches...most of them dead ...but one young live one. There is a large stump that may have been a birch...but it is now home to a nest of yellow jackets...I did not get too close. With a steel rod and a small shovel, I did shallow searching at the foot of the Girl Scout marker tree.  After digging about 2 feet (lots of roots) and making many 3 foot deep holes with the rod, I did not hear any plastic sounds. There certainly are a lot of dead trees and stumps in this area. AP Webshots album shows the area trees. hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/album/560541911nCNhma

animal painter wrote:: Labor-Day Weekend hunting... The second Girl Scout marker tree is on the edge of the Soccer Field. The tree line along the soccer field has several birches...most of them dead ...but one young live one. ...There certainly are a lot of dead trees and stumps in this area. AP Hi AP, I always like this area beside soccer field. Fit very good with verse! Keep searching... With luck and persistence you'll find the casque!

I"m willing to share my backhoe! wilhouse

Some photos I took last summer. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/23784379@N04/

Nice photos, digger! I particularly like the fencepost picture, which is a much better match to P5 than the one I photographed. Where precisely is that one?

So what is the grand 200?  And which bridge did you go under, with which culvert?  And you know that for more than a hundred years, Milwaukee has been working feverishly to preserve its parks, where some of the oldest natural foliage is still visible?  An above view of Milwaukee shows about twenty thousand areas where there might be 5 birch trees.  Also, if they 'young birch' has been growing for thirty or more years, then guess what?  It'll be bigger.  However, there is only one park with some bridges and what might be termed a culvert.

Kuh-Lai-Bah-Ti wrote:: So what is the grand 200?  And which bridge did you go under, with which culvert?  And you know that for more than a hundred years, Milwaukee has been working feverishly to preserve its parks, where some of the oldest natural foliage is still visible?  An above view of Milwaukee shows about twenty thousand areas where there might be 5 birch trees.  Also, if they 'young birch' has been growing for thirty or more years, then guess what?  It'll be bigger.  However, there is only one park with some bridges and what might be termed a culvert. The grand 200 describes the stone stairs leading up to the pavillion.  The landing design is a double C. (CC = 200 in roman numerals) The further confirmation is the next line is 'ascend' and it gives the exact number of steps.

Here's another thought-- Trees have root systems that are as wide and 'bushy' as the leafy bit...if anything, the roots would have made the soil a lot stronger, because a tree cannot thrive if it can't get a foothold...  I think I may have mentioned this once before too, but after 26 years, the young birch would be much bigger, and the proud tall fifth larger still.  The Milwaukee poem says something a lot clearer than most of the other paintings too: a starting point, progressing along a pathway to an end point.  A lot of the other 'landmarks' are obscure little things that are well-known, but secluded in their own way-- what Zinn's buddy said to him while he was digging Cleveland was: "You could be digging back here with a wedding going on, and no one would know."  I've been using that as my guide for characteristics shared by the burial locations.  Also, been doing a LOT of research on Wonderstone's Hearth, and came up with this-- Wonderstone is created by volcanic activity.  A hearth is the entrnace step to a fireplace.  So Wonderstone's Hearth would imply a volcano (A pit of fire where wonderstone is formed).

Just to let you know what has been going on in Milwaukee. I had two days off work and spent both of them (over 12 hours) at Lake Park. (It was cold and very muddy.) The first day was spent probing around the cape-tree,the Lion pedestals and the bridge. I dug under the Southern-foot-roots of the cape tree, but they were so close together, I had to rely more on the probe. (I found a professional soil probe on Ebay and bought new sharp points for it, too.) I probed as deep as possible...up to 4 feet.  The only sounds were made by the steel point hitting rock, concrete or roots...no sounds of plastic I probed around every corner of the bridge and directly under the bridge.  No luck. Anyone looking in that area will wonder what kind of insect or animal made all of those holes! On day-two I walked all along Lincoln Memorial Drive, from the soccer field to WAY past the ravine trails. This time I was looking for any tree that would have any letter on it. Except for my "G" and "D"trees, I saw no other letters. I went up and down both ravines again, looking for a letter on ANY tree... (Thank goodness for old work boots with deep treads.) I probed around both "Girl Scout" trees, too. The multi-trunk tree under the cape has to be significant, or it would not be included in Image 10.  My photo of the multi-trunk tree is very similar, but does not show any of the "rings" that are so prominent in Image 10. My multi-trunk tree is by the soccer field, not by the Lion Bridges. Every time I re-read verse 8, it always leads me back to the original "proud tall fifth"!  So I probed around it...again... (even though I could not find any letter on it.) These have been two very frustrating and disappointing days! I may have to take a break to avoid giving up all together! The "make or break" clue here is "the letter from the country of Wonderstone's hearth on the proud tall fifth".  Without that "letter" I feel like I'm just "jousting with windmills". AP

i know that is disappointing!! thank you so much for letting us know!  i can't believe it's not by the lion bridges!!!!!!!!!aaaaarrrgghh! i had been forcing myself not to ask you about the weather up there, lol.

AP - I understand frustration. You know it has to be there, just where?? Don't give up, being there helps a lot! wilhouse

Bummer!  Please don't be discouraged by the probing.  I don't think that a crushed casque would show up on that thing anyway.  After all, the verse is suppose to eventually help us find the X, not the probe.  It's there AP, we know it is.

Hey AP, I live in Manitowoc, which is about an hour and a half north of Milwaukee. If you would like, sometime in the near future I would gladly come down there and tag along with you. A fresh set of eyes might help. I've been following the Milwaukee hunt on the board, but I have never been to the location. My gut feeling is that we are looking for something that resembles an "A" (for Africa, the country of wonderstone's hearth), and I think it's going to be some kind of structure or design, and once we see it, we'll slap our foreheads and wonder why we didn't see it before. Something like the sawhorse legs in your photos...those are obviously an "A". So is the stand that is holding it up, but I doubt those were there way back in the early 80's. Once it gets a bit nicer out, I may head down there and poke around. But, if I DO find the area where I think it is, I am not going to dig for it. You guys have (for the lack of a better term) worked your asses off on this, and it's only right that one of YOU are the one who pulls it from the ground, not me. I just want to find this one. We're *so* close.

Killian, Your fresh perspective would be welcome. I have seen marks on the bark of  trees that could be read as letters...but nothing that pops out at you....Who knows what changes have occurred in 26 years? AP

I know. That's why I am hoping that the letter is something more concrete and stable than markings on a tree. I will let you know when I plan a visit down there, ok?

Killian, Just let me know... AP P.S. In a past thread, we saw an "A" on a photo of the original "PT 5th". It was a scar from an old bark cut.

Is it the south bridge that has the cape tree? hxxp://wikimapia.org/#lat=43.065122&lon ... =0&m=a&v=2

Yes, On your map,it is at the bottom left corner of the southern-most bridge.

animal painter wrote:: Here is a close up of the area above the fork in the tree. It is not a Girl Scout insignia, but it may have been something that BP thought looked like a letter "A". (Africa being the country of wonderstone's hearth?) Maybe it's a scar where a limb broke off? AP I still cannot attach photos to my post for some reason... so these are posted on Tweleve. hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1184979392 hxxp://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a ... 1184979408 This is the thread in which we saw the "A" on the PT 5th AP

Oh! I remember that now. I would like to think that he wouldn't have used something like that on a tree as a marker, but I also know that he thought these things would be found quickly. This one is just frustrating. We're SO close, but we're missing that one piece of info that will cement the location. It *has* to be near that south bridge.

I received the copy of the Girl Scout Trail Map booklet today from the Lake Park Friends. It is not very precise in its details, but it does give one very interesting piece of information...the direction which the scouts were to take on the trail. Apparently, they were to enter the South Ravine Trail from the EAST end along Lincoln Memorial Drive!  That explains why the metal trail marker is on a tree that is yards from the West end of the South Ravine trail...It was because the scouts saw the marker AFTER they exited the ravine on the West end. It directed them to circle back to the South Lion Bridge so they could cross it. This makes me think that there is a good possibility that a marker of some sort was on one of the trees at the EAST end of the South Ravine on Lincoln Memorial Drive. Otherwise, how would the scouts have known to go left at the correct ravine? One thing is puzzling.  There is no mention made of the other Girl Scout ravine off the parking lot by the Pavilion...The map does not show it nor do the instructions lead them to look for it....hmmm. I have tried all week to contact the historian at the Milwaukee Area Girl Scout office. She has been out of town.  So today, I went there in person to see if I could find anyone else with access to their archives.  The history material is locked up in a closet...and I must wait for the historian to return....What are a few more days? The copies of the pertinent pages of the booklet are at Webshots: hxxp://tinyurl.com/6nn5qd What do you think? AP

Nice thinking, AP! Sounds quite logical to me! I am excited to see what the historian has to offer!

I have heard from the Girl Scout Historian. She says that she was made historian...and then given boxes full of "stuff" with no rhyme nor reason to it.  I have offered to help her identify the Lake Park photos...Now it's a matter of finding time to get together and see what they have... (update) Girl Scout Historian will not be able to get boxes out of the closet until June 16th.... I have also contacted the Milwaukee Park Admin. to see if they have photos.  The same condition exists there...boxes of stuff with no organization...So I will have to find the time to go to the offices and sift through their info, to see if it is useful. AP

This is a photo I found in the basement of the Milwaukee County Parks Administration Building... (where all of the old papers and photos are kept in old file cabinets) On the back, the date of "1940" is written. It is the only photo that was of any value that I could tell. The original photo is sepia in color.  I posted a copy of the photo scanned in black and white. If these are the same trees that we are considering as our counting trees, they look very much like birch trees! Maybe we did not give BP enough credit in his knowledge of trees. At least we can see why he might have called them birches...if they looked at all like this in 1982. Notice the multi-trunk tree at the end of the ravine trail by the PT5th.  When was that removed? See the other trees that were growing there originally.  Maybe one of them is responsible for the "divot" that was found by Pine. AP (this and other photos...old and new... are at webshots...at the link below) hxxp://tinyurl.com/66gbfa

Very intriguing!! They do indeed look like birches in the photo, but they sure don't now. I think we settled on "cottonwood" based on the leaves and bark, but I hope we were wrong. It is eye-opening to see 5 birches (?) next to a 5-trunk tree. And that is some serious detective work you're doing up there. Good job!

AP....that multi-trunker stands at almost the exact spot KLBT wanted to dig at....where the staircase ends and the small triangle of land is.  There is a concrete culvert-cap there now...and not much else. The concrete footbridge is visible from there--and the side of the bridge looks like a sideways A. The letter could be A--for amethyst!

Shecrab, I thought that KLBT was looking at Ravine Drive up by the Grand Staircase. This photo is of the South Lighthouse Ravine. Did I misunderstand? AP

Unknown: I thought that KLBT was looking at Ravine Drive up by the Grand Staircase. This was my understanding of what KLBT proposed as well. You really are doing some great research up there AP. And if any of those old sepia photos aren't really clear they can be made sharper by taking them to a copy shop and having them make a color copy of them.  It costs a couple of bucks but really does make a huge difference if they are faded.

Now knowing that there was a multi-trunk tree here, I took a closer look at the 1996 photo of the PT5th. All this time, I thought that the debris in front of the trail exit was just leaves....but now.... Does it look to you like the area in the yellow oval could have been a recently removed tree stump? If the multi-trunk tree was a "marker" to prove you were in the right place, BP would have thought that you couldn't miss it! AP

Ohhh.....MY BAD!!! I thought that WAS the Ravine by the Grand Staircase. I thought you could see the lighthouse because the trees weren't as tall.  Ooops!! Never mind then.

It's hard to tell for certain with that photo, but I think that it could definitely be the remains of a tree that was recently removed. It especially looks like it on the left side.

Last weekend, I walked between each of the "counting trees" feeling the ground for any sign of trees that have been removed.  I felt two areas of depression...marked on this photo...We really need to see a photo from the 1980's! AP

There was some discussion in mid-July last year about when, to what degree, and on what side LMD was widened. Was that ever resolved? Does it influence what we think of this photograph?

Forest, I think we came to the conclusion that the curb on the west side of Lincoln Memorial Drive stayed pretty much the same as before the renovation in 2003.  What you see in the old photos, I believe, is still there...Except that a concrete sidewalk was added (around 2003) from LMD to the end of the South Lighthouse Ravine. (over the area where the multi-trunk tree of 1940 stood.) Is that how you see it? AP Looking at the "old photos" on the Webshots Album, there is one of the PT5th and adjacent tree, taken in 2000.  There is still no sidewalk, and you can see an area of "green grass" where the multi-trunk tree should have been.

It is a great theory, and I'm tempted to believe it, but patches of grass change a lot over the years. It's just too hard to tell without more photographs. I believe the next step should be to obtain positive identifications for PT5 and his/her neighbors. They look like birches in the 1940 photo, so are they birches, cottonwoods, or something else entirely? I assume none of us are botanists. There are, however, a number of arborists / tree service companies in Milwaukee that would probably be happy to identify these trees from photographs. If not, I would be happy to chip in just to settle the question once and for all.

Forest, I tend to agree with the "cottonwood" identification of those last tall trees. The following descriptions of cottonwood bark are in keeping with what we have seen in the early photo and our present day observation. *************************************************************** Bark is white and smooth on younger stems and trunk, becoming darker and furrowed with age. The bark is pale, thin, and smooth at a young age becoming grayish brown, thick, and very deeply furrowed from the base of the tree upwards. Very similar to the Tulip Poplar. The Cottonwood bark has deeper furrows. ************************************************************** Unless BP were a trained arborist, he may have merely seen younger versions of these trees, with their transitional birchy appearance and been satisfied to call them "birches". If only we could find that "letter"! AP

If they are cottonwoods, I wonder when they stopped looking birchy and started looking cottonwoody. They are so large now, and what - maybe 20 years old in the 1940 photograph? BP must have seen them when they were already 50-60 years old, surely old enough to have lost their youthful appearance.

Forest. It seems like every new piece of information, brings with it, a myriad of questions... AP

hi guys, i'm back family emergencies and life changes happening here, so not going to have much time to spend on the hunt.  i'm keeping an 18 month old child  while my sister recuperates, and not sure how my animals will accept such a small human, so i will  have to watch her all the time. i know i'm behind and haven't read everything, but AP i am impressed with your research!  wishing you all the luck!

Hi, Slappy, Sounds like you have your hands full ! Thank goodness for family in times of need... I added a photo to the last Webshots album. hxxp://tinyurl.com/66gbfa Tried to take it from exactly the same place as the photographer did in 1940...to get the same perspective on all of the trees. (He must have had a professional wide-angle lens.) After attempting to determine where the missing trees were by photo and depressions, I "counted" again and probed by all of the areas that could possibly be along LMD...then probed again by the Lions on the bridge. Talked to the park manager about tree removal. She has been with the park since 1996...and has no info about the 1940's multi-trunk tree. It's not for lack of trying that this casque is not found. AP

tried to put pics together for comparision

cw0909, Good job of making the visual aid...to compare the area and its changes. I took more photos of the LMD tree area, where some noticeable depressions can be observed where those 1940 trees stood at the end of the south lighthouse ravine. (multi-trunk and smaller trees). Do any of the "original PT5th dig group" remember a tree being south of the ravine sidewalk in 2005?  The large ground-out stump area does not seem all that old. Just recently, a buried power cable has been marked by a line of flags in this area.  I do not know for what purpose yet. Here is a link to photos of the above mentioned areas. hxxp://tinyurl.com/6aj7pd  It is my desire to make as much visual information possible for others to feel like they have seen what there is to see...and maybe come to conclusions of what BP meant in verse 8. Still hoping that the May 4th meeting of the Lake Park Friends will have useful historical photos from the 1970's or 1980's. Also waiting for the opportunity to view Girl Scout photos. AP P.S. I found a photo that Stercox took in 2005. There was no tree there at the time of the first dig.

None of my photographs of the event cover that angle, unfortunately.

ap qoute Just recently, a buried power cable has been marked by a line of flags in this area.  I do not know for what purpose yet. call before you dig maybe the park is planning some constuction for that area on the 40s pic it looks like multi trunk 1, 2, 3, 4, 5 tree read l to r on 08 pic looks like no multi trunk 1, 2, 4 read left to r sorry forgot to mention somewhere in some kinda records are file to what was and what has changed ie tree  tree removed  or moved walk 2 ft e. s. n. w. ect

Yesterday I attended a presentation by a retired Milwaukee County Parks Landscape Architect. She worked with the parks since 1984, and wrote a book about the Milwaukee Parks. I was able to talk to her about the Lannon stone retaining walls on LMD.  She said that those walls have been holding back the bluffs for a LONG time, certainly before 1980. (This does not agree with the info from the park manager a year ago.) I guess that answers the question about the "G" tree. While there, I bought a booklet entitled "Lake Park Trees". It has walking tours with maps photos and descriptions of the trees in the park...including Champion Trees. The one multi-trunk tree that was removed last year (by the South Lion Bridge) was a Champion Pear tree. That's about it for  useful information gleaned. AP

champion=proud tall ???? -regulus

Regulus, Champion Trees are the largest, oldest tallest etc trees in the state/country. They are measured and nominated by local people. Here is a website that tells about the process. hxxp://www.championtrees.org/champions/championtree.htm Lake Park is home to several Champion Trees. AP

reg - the Champion Tree Project was founded in 1996, so it cannot have anything to do with The Secret. Of course, a tree can be proud and tall without being a Champion.

The former Girl Scout leaders had their get-together. The questions about the old GS Trail raised such interest, that they decided to take the whole hike again for nostalgia's sake in June. There was only one woman who had any photos of a previous hike...but they were not by the ravine area One thing they did say was..that where ever the trail took a turn, they posted senior Girl Scout helpers there to be sure that the others did not miss the turn. One lady did say that they posted "helpers" near the ravine-turn...(so the necessity of having permanent markers on the trees seems not to have been essential.) I am still waiting to go through the misc. stuff that is locked in the closet at the Girl Scout Hqtrs. ) Signed...the Eternal Optimist. AP

When they get done with the hike have them have a dig party at the area ypu think the casque is at.

I saw a tree that has the "ringed" bark appearance something similar to the multi-trunk tree in image 10 It is one of several that are between the two lion bridges by the lighthouse.  Stumps and cut down trees are in the very close proximity. You would have had to pass such a tree to "pass the compass" to get to the "foot of the culvert". I'm just trying to account for the multi-trunk tree in the painting... Picture is posted at Webshots. hxxp://tinyurl.com/6aj7pd Does anyone recognize this type of tree? AP

You can go to Lake Park one day..and then the next day...it has been changed! A "path" of large chunks of limestone laid on landscape fabric, appeared almost overnight...by the Girl Scout Marker Tree by the South Lion Bridge.  I have no idea what it is for.  There are also stakes and spray paint marks by the Lion Bridge that indicate there will be digging soon.  Maybe the path will be for heavy machinery to drive over to get to the site. (Again...photos are posted at the Webshots link below) hxxp://tinyurl.com/68xb56 AP

I was able to get to Lake Park this morning...and used the metal detector by the Girl Scout Marker Tree at the end of the South Ravine.  It kept reading "Iron" at the "southern foot" of the tree.  So I dug down just over a foot. The metal turned out to be a 1964 nickel.  Once that was removed, I got no more readings. Then I walked down to the other end of the ravine on Lincoln Memorial Drive, I could not believe my eyes! Work crews had come in with a bobcat and chain saws and had almost completely denuded both sides of the ravine by the exit!! The sides are now only dirt except for a few trees they left behind. (I felt like someone had come into my house and "trashed" it!) I hope that this area was not where BP buried the casque... Because most of the trees that were there are mostly not there now. (photos at the link below) hxxp://tinyurl.com/5jln9b No doubt they will replant this with some kind of ground cover. AP

Keep on top of th construction. this may not be such a bad thing as you may be able to dig more places. Let the right people know to be on the look out for the casque.

Scottrocks, Such an optimistic reply... They are also digging up by the Lions... putting in a "rain garden".  There is a nice big pile of dirt by the end of the bridge.

Again keep the construction crews abreast of what we know. They obviously do not want you digging around while they work but they may do much more agressive digging for the casque doing their work then you could do. If all of their digging does not turn up the casque then this strenthens the idea that the casque got intoomed in the retaining wall. It may or may not be helpful to ask the construction crew if they know anything about the retaining wall or cut down trees. Oftren times arborists take care of trees in the park. The park may have the name of an arborist that may be worth inquireing about cut trees in the area of the casque.

I was unable to get to Lake Park this weekend for any "searching"...but did get there Sunday evening...just as the light was fading. The crews had been working this weekend at "pruning" the North Lighthouse Ravine, just like they cleared out the South Ravine. It was not as much of a shock...as I had expected it. It probably does not make any difference to the finding of the casque, but I thought you might want to see what is going on here. Included are a couple photos of the digging by the Lion Bridge...They are putting in drainage pipes. Here is the link: hxxp://tinyurl.com/5n6x9p AP

Great pictures, thank you painter! But's what's this I see in one of your photographs...?

Forest, I would have been so-fast-down-in-that-hole!!!! It did cross my mind that if they had dug a bit closer to the Lion, they may have saved me a lot of digging! I need another 8-hour day to be able dig around... AP

animal painter wrote:: It did cross my mind that if they had dug a bit closer to the Lion, they may have saved me a lot of digging! At its southern foot .....Go for it AP.  Has to be.  I just wish I can make sense out of the tall fifth . On a proud makes good sense for the lion and his feet.  Tall fifth-tall fifth-tall fifth?  If it is by the proud lion, i would think that the fifth has something to do with him.  How many toes does it have? FB, that's crazy.

I was thinking about the lion's toes, too. If the lion has 5 toes, definitly go for the tallest one!

The lions' paws have 4 toes each...

Really nice pics AP.  I like this one: Walk 100 paces southeast over rock and soil hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/21 ... 3652cDfVXm (i think we were joking about the toes-that was a nice pic too)

just thought i would add this to the boards....i found it googling "tall fifth" hxxp://www.troll-werks.com/Millwaukee%20site.htm

that was a good story fox, who was the hunter? i'll never believe he's not still wondering.... on that base map of his, could someone tell me where the other girl scout marker tree is supposed to be? or red x it in? please

not really sure who it is...

Fox, That post was from shadowrunner.  There is a link on this site somewhere.

Shadowrunner is the person who started this very thread (Milwaukee Update). If you go to Page-1 you can see what he said. AP

shadowrunner..website hxxp://www.troll-werks.com/ has his Milwaukee ideas, pics, ect, he was  one of the guys who found the chicago casques

thanks guys

DOH Thanks for clearing that up.

It has been weeks since I was last able to get to Lake Park. But yesterday I spent 3 hours searching, and retracing steps from start to "finish". I looked longingly at my beloved "G-tree", wishing that we still had the ability to ask if a solution were correct but unattainable. I dug by the soccer-field-Girl-Scout-tree, (After using the metal-detector and getting a definite reading...I found a buried torsion bar.) The dragon flies were swarming by every bush and tree. Many probings and diggings later, I left empty-handed....again. AP G Tree now...

Another 3 hours at Lake Park today...and I spent them all looking at "southern feet". (There are so many to choose from.) I started by standing right under the South Ravine Bridge, directly at the center of the southern base...or "foot of the bridge"... you know...the part that it actually "stands" on... The limestone facacdes were falling off and lying around...pieces of the bridge were actually on the ground... I dug a hole 2 feet deep in the clay (puff...pant...) and hit rock. Then I dug at the pediment nearest the side of the cape-tree It was impossible to get more than a few inches down before hitting rock. Then I went up to the southern-most  lion base. What did I see hanging on it? It was a locust shell...It had to be a sign ! So I dug right under the locust...and hit concrete... At least it was a beautiful day...I talked to one man on a "scooter". He has lived on Locust St. all his life...In 1947, when he was 10 years old, he said he remembered that the lions were sprayed golden yellow...! He said  they sprayed them every year for a while.  Interesting....

animal painter wrote:: The 100 "steps" brings you out to the clearing at the end of the ravine...at the first young birch...which is where I think BP meant it to end.  (Although we have never found any trace of an actual birch tree...) AP That is the $64,ooo question!  What birch? I am forced to believe that the landmarks for which BP was alluding to were thought to be permanent at one time.  There wasn't any compass, yet we have the North point Lighthouse.  There has to be something else for "birch". As far as the "pace" goes, once we figure out for sure where the starting point is, we can map them out and see what's there instead of actually "walking" them.  Personally, I like the start of the 100 paces to begin at the NW part of the ravine near N Wahl Ave.  100 paces over rock and soil gets you near the bridge, approximately .  Still, others may have better starting points, but what landmarks are there other than trees?  Geez... I wish we could all have a brainstorming party in Lake park to help you out!

I looked up "birch" and found: Betulaceae, or the Birch Family, includes six genera of deciduous nut-bearing trees and shrubs, including the birches, alders, hazels, hornbeams and hop-hornbeams So BP may have seen an alder and and called it a birch....He was no dummy...and could use the "birch family" name to refer to a tree...thus confusing the heck out of us. AP

Actually, I can't see why he might mistake an alder for a birch. The one thing about birch trees is that they are the most distinctive trees in the forest, as a rule. Whether white birch, silver birch or paper birch--they stand out as unusual. White birch usually grow in small stands, not singly--and they most often have that very recognizable light colored or white bark that peels off in strips. It's almost iconic. what surprises me is that he said birch--so I'm assuming there was a very distinctive BIRCH tree--probably silver or white--there. What does not follow for me is the rest of the verse meaning birches--it only says "pass three staying west"--it does not specifically say that the "three" are birches. And they would be very noticeable if they were! Think about it: if he saw a single white birch, that means that the tree would have to be planted there deliberately--because of the nature of birch forests--they usually grow by themselves in small groups, without other trees nearby. There isn't a birch forest in Lake park, is there? So that means (to me) that the birch was a single tree--a deliberate marker--(which makes sense puzzle wise!). Then he says "pass 3 staying west" so unless he meant that there was a line of white birch trees, (which there isn't? correct?) then he MUST have meant three of something ELSE. Anyhow, that's my logic here. I don't think he would see an alder, which is much less distinctive (and without the long catkins, not very recognizable!) and think it was a birch. An alder's leaves are roundish--not pointy at the end like birches. The bark is not distinctive like that of a birch. Hop-hornbeams and hornbeams are even less distinctive. They just look like regular trees--not unusual. And hazels are downright scarce in most places--they are usually smallish and can be confused with other trees like hornbeams.  He'd have to have carried a good field guide around to identify the difference between all the members of the birch family EXCEPT the birch! Other things about white birch trees: they grow multiple trunks more often than not. And the branches grow out and up--and tend to break off easily in storms or from other causes. They're a high-maintenance tree. They get bugs and rot easily, also. I'll bet if there WAS a white birch there, it's gone now--because the park would be constantly tending to it. They rarely get above 20 years old in most settings. So was it a birch? I'll bet it was--a white one, that is now gone. Were the 3 you pass birches? Maybe, maybe not. Also....there is an object up by the visitor center (at the top of the stairs) on the left hand side, near the roadwary--that looks like a sundial. Is that what it is? Also...has the step count been confirmed ? (92, grand 200 , etc.) From reading back posts, I noticed that it was in doubt at one time.

Shecrab, I guess that was my point...White birches are very recognizable...So was BP an "obvious" clue-giver or did he like to play the red-herring card? If you look at page 23 or 24 of this thread, (or this Webshots  link hxxp://tinyurl.com/66gbfa ) you will see an old photo of the cottonwood trees along Lincoln Memorial Drive.  It was noted on a website, that in their younger stage, they appear like birch trees, getting darker and less "birchy" with age. The sun-dial looking thing is a sign for La Bistro restaurant. Yes, the step-count has been confirmed at the "grand 200" AP

Okay. I was just wondering about the steps. Thanks. As for the trees, it's impossible to say now what BP had in mind...but... I don't believe he did red herring clues at all, if that helps.  Can anyone think of one he did in either the Cleveland or Chicago solves? (PS: I still haven't gotten hold of my son. I will keep you updated.)

Well yes, The one that comes to mind right off was the Verse for Chicago, Over L's shoulder and the line about Congress made everybody sure, when the book first came out that this verse had to do with Washington DC. Everyone I knew was sure that this meant behind the lincoln memorial in washington DC. I doubt the paring of these clues was un-intentional. I think he wrote it like that specifically to throw off the hunt.

I wonder if that's a deliberate red-herring or if it's just an interesting parallel? Could be either one, I suppose.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Well yes, The one that comes to mind right off was the Verse for Chicago, Over L's shoulder and the line about Congress made everybody sure, when the book first came out that this verse had to do with Washington DC. Everyone I knew was sure that this meant behind the lincoln memorial in washington DC. I doubt the paring of these clues was un-intentional. I think he wrote it like that specifically to throw off the hunt. That's not a red herring. A red herring is something that looks like a clue but is irrelevant.  "Congress" was definitely a clue; it was just misinterpreted.  (It was Congress Avenue he was referring to -- not Congress proper.) I agree with shecrab.  I don't think BP put in any real red herrings; it's just our interpretations thus far that are flawed.

I see what your saying, but if BP purposely put congress and a Sitting L in one verse to make you think WashingtonDC then WashingtonDC is the red herring.

again I agree with Falcon.  I find it VERY hard to believe that BP innocently wrote out those clues for Chicago not even thinking about D.C. red herring noun;  something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand; a misleading clue. sounds fairly cut and dry to me...

So Milwaukee hunters, see my post from this morning in the Chicago thread. the iconic image in the milwaukee picture is city hall. Which is on water and Wells, Wells goes due east and arrives I believe at the park you guys are searching. but it seems to me you start your searching on the water side of the park Try starting where Wells enters the park on the west side. That would follow along the example of chicago and cleveland.

There's a lot on Milwaukee and I haven't caught up with it all, though I realise this is a tricky casque. I was interested to come across the Girl Scouts sign while browsing Stercox's old albums (hadn't seen that before). I emailed the Girl Scouts of Wisconsin Southeast to see if they knew anyone who remembered the trail, and whether there were any other trees marked in the same way as Stercox speculated. Here's the reply FWIW. It's probably familiar. * * * * * I was able to ask one of our lifetime volunteers. As far as we know the tree no longer exists (but apparently it did at one point). We believe it was off Lincoln Memorial Drive at the first ravine in Lake Park. The original trail began in Juneau Park at the George Washington Memorial located in the triangle formed by Lincoln Memorial Drive and Harbor Dr. It went past the duck lagoon and into McKinley Park. It crossed Lincoln Memorial Dr at the first stop light and went along the west side of the street to the first ravine in Lake Park. It followed to the end of the ravine and up the stairs circling to the left and crossed over the bridge guarded by sandstone lions. They followed trail signs to the 2nd ravine and continued down the path to lake area staying close to the edge of the bluff. They entered the 3rd ravine (behind a metal support stand) and went back up to the top of the bluff behind the pavilion. After crossing over the roadway on the footbridge there was a left turn before going down steps. A right turn at the bottom of the steps led to the 4th ravine. A right turn at the fork in the ravine went under the roadway to the end of the path. After that it took the sidewalk to Riverside Park.

WhteRabbit, I have every trail brochure that the Girl Scouts printed for each year they held the annual hike. If you search the forums, you will see that the trail changed several times. Only a few of the original metal signs remain...embedded into the trees. We cannot be sure which signs existed in 1980-82, when BP buried the casque. (or even if the trees he saw still exist...They have cut down many.) AP

animal painter wrote:: WhteRabbit, I have every trail brochure that the Girl Scouts printed for each year they held the annual hike. Ah! OK then... (Thanks AP)

Here's some brainstorming on Milwaukee. It's a bit "left-field", but what do you expect.  ;) I think these puzzles revolve around certain themes. One of the themes for Milwaukee is the Girl Scouts. Lions are another. I previously suggested the Wisconsin Club (Mitchell Mansion) for the start of the trail. It was pointed out that the Mitchell Tower is closer, although both are on a road that leads to Lincoln Memorial Drive where it's possible to pick up the clues to "Cast on copper / Ascend the 92 steps" etc. As you walk the beating of the world At a distance in time From three who lived there At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing Although an attempt has been made to explain the journey from Mitchell Tower to Lincoln Memorial Drive in terms of these lines, I seem to remember it's a bit of a stretch. I still like the Wisconsin Club because it was called "The Deutscher", which ties in with the German basis of the puzzle, and because of its lion staircase. "The Grand Staircase in the East Hall of the house with its twenty-four lion heads took one craftsman seven years to build." The club was originally near the Pabst theatre; hence the collar. "The first home of the new club, called the ‘Deutscher’ or ‘German’ Club, was in the Old Opera House near the site of the present Pabst Theatre." For the Deutscher, the "three who lived there" would be the three who set up the club. Don't know how some of the other lines like the "beating of the world" would tie in with this route; I'm still looking. Anyway, for now let's carry on from Lincoln Memorial and the Grand Staircase until we get to these lines: Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west It's been pointed out that Image 10 resembles the lion. I'm interested in a theory that the position of the gemstones in the images gives a hint towards the actual position...but not for that image. (Eg, cf the Montreal lamppost theory). Image 2 shows us a gem by the base of a lion. It's just a hypothesis. The founder of the US Girl Scouts, Juliette Gordon Low , was completely deaf. She was born in Savannah - lion country. The German for "lion" is " lowe ". Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch The girl scout is deaf though. What if she didn't hear this bit? Up to this point, you've been heading West. Pass three, staying west Pass three lines? Ignore them? I'm going off the idea that these gems are buried next to trees. The book is saturated with messages about man's relationship with nature, and hints that the book will reveal "the significance of the quest...in the relationship between Man and the Fair People". I'm starting to wonder if several of these puzzles hint at, and avoid, digging up trees. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a tall, proud fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. Stay west. Wait. "Proud" hints at a lion. ("Tall, proud" also hints at the Spanish Hadas who are described in this way on P13. Not sure what significance this has, or how what is said about the German Fair Folk in the introduction ties in with this puzzle.) I'm also remembering the German fairytale about the girl who touched a castle with a primrose and discovered a magic entrance. Like a bridge, maybe...? Then there's Rapunzel, with her long, golden mane... "Rapunzel is German for another herb, not parsley, but some kind of bitter salad green; fairy-tale editors tend to identify it as spinach or lettuce, as mentioned earlier. It is variously identified, however, in the botanical books I looked at and seems to be most commonly associated with evening primrose" Has anyone tried digging next to the lion bridge? *edit* Just found the Lion Bridge Renovation thread. So I guess that's a "yes". (Sorry I'm being slow catching up here; the only stuff I'd read on Milwaukee digging was about tree stumps, and I'd previously not paid too much attention to this image because I thought it depended on trees that weren't there any more. I'm not so sure about the trees now, but I hadn't realised how much the bridges had also been redeveloped. I don't have a very clear picture of where the lion bridges were, or how many there were. Is there still ground in the immediate vicinity of a bridge lion that's undisturbed and unexplored, or should I forget about them...?)

WhiteRabbit, I have looked around the bases of the bridges...along the topsides, around the sides (which are extremely steep...only with very good boots and a walking stick do you make it up and down the sides)  and along the foundation footings. The stone and concrete around the foundation does not lend itself well to digging. I have also checked around the other bridges in the park. When our snow melts, I will take another look at the area...to see what changes have been made...and to poke around with my soil probe. Keep throwing out your ideas.  We need the new perspectives! AP

Thanks for that AP. Could you let me know how many bridges there are with lions, and how many lions they have...? It would be great if it was possible to link to a map showing their location...I couldn't identify them from Google...

OK...am I right in thinking there are just two bridges with lions, adjacent, shown in this pic...? And eight lions, four at the corner of each bridge...? Were both bridges renovated, or just one of them...? Re: the proud tall fifth, and the tall proud Hadas, Image 10 also has the millstone that appears on the flag of the Spanish pic (Image 6)...which is purple like an amethyst, though the gem shown in Image 10 isn't. Must be some missing connection there. "Each lion is signed and dated P. Kupper" They have letter-from-the-country potential then. Fifth lion...? Is it possible to construct a trail that includes the 100 paces southeast over rock and soil, goes under the first bridge or whatever, and winds up around the base of a lion on the second...? I'm picturing the lion at the northeast corner of the south bridge. Perhaps "pass three" refers to the three faces on the Girl Scouts badges.

WhiteRabbit, The Lake Park Friends Website, below, has a lot of good info and interactive maps of all the sites in Lake Park. hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/explore.shtml

(Cheers...I'll be interested to see the lie of the land once it's thawed a bit.)

I do like the idea of proud = pride = lions. That's clever.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: "Tall, proud" also hints at the Spanish Hadas who are described in this way on P13. Not sure what significance this has Unknown: Ponce de León died without really knowing the importance of his discoveries. The explorer was laid to rest beneath the altar of a San Juan church. The inscription on his gravestone reads, “Beneath this stone repose the bones of the valiant Lion (León is ‘lion’ in Spanish) whose deeds surpassed the greatness of his name.” Just realised. Ponce de Leon. And Spanish for lion is...?  El león.

I was able to get to the Milwaukee Lake Front on April Fools Day. It was appropriate...in that the park no longer looks anything like it did when BP hid the casque. The stump which had similarity to the cape tree is all but decomposed and I dug a deep hole on the south side of it. The multi-trunk tree is cut down to 2 trunks. Thank goodness for old photos. Here is a link to the album I put up with more recent photos of Lake Park. hxxp://community.webshots.com/album/579 ... =community

animal painter wrote:: I was able to get to the Milwaukee Lake Front on April Fools Day. You missed a trick there. Thanks for the pics! And next time, I want lions. Lots of lions.  ;)

WhiteRabbit, I will give you more lions soon...old and new AP

The lions may begin to look alike. Two different lions were sculpted...and 4 of each were made. Here is a link to the album: hxxp://community.webshots.com/album/579 ... ty&start=0

lol, nah, we would get upset if AP had said she found it on April 1st. is it spring there finally AP?  it went from winter straight to summer here, no spring at all.  i think it was 90 degrees here yesterday. is the ground soft enough to dig?  i think that first lion bridge might be too open (the one closest to the lighthouse)  don't you think?  plus, that hill looks scary.  is it that steep on the backside of that bridge?  or on the other lion bridge?  since you are coming from the grand staircase, the 5th one would be on the backside of the first lion bridge (the one by the lighthouse), right?  i'm confusing myself.  do you walk on the other lion bridge first before getting to the lion bridge by the lighthouse AP?

Slappy, Here is a map to help you keep the bridges straight.

thank you AP! that helps a lot!

Hi AP - I had an idea that the casque might be buried at the lion's foot, rather than by a tree, but couldn't figure out the "tall, proud fifth ". Why should any of these lions be the "fifth"? I had a thought today, and wondered if Leo was the fifth sign of the zodiac. Voila! Haven't really looked yet, but I'd be surprised if the constellation or symbol didn't show up in the image in some form; something like this or whatever. (The character also closely resembles the one in Image 11, which she's looking across at, and which corresponds to Leo's month of August.) That makes three lion references in three words. "Proud, tall" echoes the "tall, proud Hadas" and Ponce de Leon. "Proud" hints at a pride of lions. And Leo is the "fifth". I see it like this... Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch I think this is, or was, a birch. Yep, even I agree with that. Pass three, staying west These could be three birches, three lions, or the three faces in the Girl Scouts logo. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth Sneaky clue for one of the lions. It's all too factual otherwise. (They're signed "P. Kupper", giving the "r" from "Germany".) As for which one it might be, I can't really visualise the path from the culvert well enough to say. Depends what the "three" are, and where the path leads. But after this walking southeast, it sounds like you're south of the bridges, and if it's the "southern foot" then maybe it's this one which would be facing the right way. (I'm only guessing the start, since I don't know where the culvert is.)

WhiteRabbit, I came to that same idea some time ago...especially liking the "proud/pride" play on words. So I used my soil probe and metal detector around the bases where there were lions' "Southern feet" with soil near them.  It took a lot of careful activity to not get the wrong kind of attention while trying to examine the area during daylight. After finding no box with my poking and detecting, I turned to looking elsewhere. Also reasoning that BP would not dig a 2-3-foot deep hole at the pediment of a statue on the bridge...I looked for somewhere a bit more secluded...a place where one could dig "in the shadows". The part of the verse that says "staying West"...has been tricky.  Should we actually go in the direction of West or just stay on the West side...while walking North or South? AP

Well...I'm not sure, I'd need to see some kind of map of the paths. But unless the path (Girl Scouts trail or whatever) plausibly crosses to the north of the bridges, and depending where the culvert is, the "southern foot" sounds like one of the two lions at the south-west corner, and most likely the south bridge. The most definite spot would seem to be literally beside the wall at the lion's paws, or beside Kupper's signature. (Wouldn't mind seeing some pics of that - eg, is it in front, or on the side...?) I'm not sure you'll find this with a metal detector, so I should throw caution to the wind and excavate a Stercox-style hole.  :)

This is one photo of the "P Kupper" signature that I can easily put my hands on. It is on the side of the lion pediment...the side away from the extended paws.

*edit* (cheers...why give such an elaborate clue for the letter if it's irrelevant...?)

WhiteRabbit, It is my opinion that the "letter from the country of the wonderstone's hearth" was seen on a long-gone Girl Scout sign which was nailed to a tree along the Girl Scout trail. ("G" for Germany). The trail was changed over the years, and the trees have been removed for various reasons...decay, thinning, etc. My "G" tree several years back (G was carved in the trunk) was an exciting find! But even after digging a 6-ft trench along its Southern foot, there was no joy.... That "G" tree has since been cut down, too.

I really think ShadowRunner had the right idea with this one.  His conclusion was that it was buried at the base of a tall tree near the tees of one of the holes on the golf course.  The tree had been felled and mulched, but it very likely could have been a proud, tall birch -- the fifth one in a particular direction, if I remember correctly. This solution had a great confirmer -- the two red balls that marked the women's tees, exactly like the balls the woman is juggling in the picture.  I believe he had this all posted on his website, but has since taken it down.

bigmatty, The red balls were visible from the sidewalk as you made your way from the top of the grand staircase to the lighthouse. On one of my first forays into the area, I found a tall birch on the golf course. (It was one of the only standing birches in the park.) To have dug by that birch would have meant being arrested, because it was actually on the golf course. There was a large birch, long-fallen in the wooded area around the course.  Neither had an obvious "letter" on it. (but I could not lift or roll the fallen trunk  to see the entire surface.) The problem was getting back to the golf course area after following the verse down into the ravine.  The steps did not lead back up the ravine again...unless you "stay West" and walk back up the ravine..the way you came...backtracking. To see the four-trunk tree on Lincoln Memorial Drive, you had to walk North from the outlet of the ravine.

bigmatty, The birches I referred to in the previous post, were the same birches that Shadowrunner referred to in his post long ago. I actually printed off his 10-page website from Aug. 2006 (which no longer exists). If it would not be considered unethical, I could scan in the pages and put them up. His idea was to go back to the Girl Scout Ravine (aka Waterfall Ravine) just off the parking lot at the top of the "Grand 200" stairs...to find birches. That ravine was totally renovated in the last couple years...with the waterfall and bridges being rebuilt. It was difficult, if not impossible, to make the verse lead us back there after passing the "compass", but it was an area with birches in 2006. I still feel that the verse led us in a big circle...from the grand 200 stairs, up to the lighthouse, down the lion-bridge ravine...and back to the area by the stairway.

Here is a link to the report that shadowrunner made when he searched in August of 2005. hxxp://entertainment.webshots.com/album/580062567nQUXod

That's the one.  I know it's disappointing, but I think his interpretation of the verse makes the most sense out of all that have been offered here.  It's consistent, clear, and doesn't require any obscure knowledge or twisted interpretations of words. Basically, the interpretation says, "The casque is buried at the southern foot of a tall, proud birch tree -- specifically, the fifth one you'll see when going west from this landmark."  I think that's much more along the lines of what BP intended when he created this puzzle.  Shame that so much of the landscape has changed since he did it.

I think the way shadowrunner laid out the clues and the images was very well done. It makes a good example of how the verses and images match up and how they work together--relatively simple, relatively clear and without trickery or word-play, or "image-play". I also believe his solution made a lot of sense, but this Casque is probably lost to us now.

Hi everyone, first poster. When the word 'birch' is used, is it possible it's interchangeable at times with the word 'bridge'? Perhaps 'wonderstone' = circular layers as in rhyolite?, the letter O? Perhaps 'proud, tall fifth' is a reference to a higher elevated fifth "lion bridge" that runs North-South?

Welcome erexere! Glad to have your thoughts and interpretations. AP

shecrab wrote:: I think the way shadowrunner laid out the clues and the images was very well done. It makes a good example of how the verses and images match up and how they work together - relatively simple, relatively clear and without trickery or word-play But he reached the bridge by interpreting "compass" as "north point lighthouse". That's wordplay if ever I saw it. Simple is good to a degree, but this trail seems too simple and literal to me. Even V12 was more cryptic, and this one includes stuff like "cast in copper", women with harpsichords, etc. Why dumb down the second half...? The beating of the world...the three who lived there...most of this verse is highly obscure. I reckon the letter from the country on a proud tall fifth indicates Kupper's signature on one of the lions, and that a visual confirmer could be found from the right angle. The image has barely been used, and contains a bunch of curious and unidentified shapes. Juggler / Circus World / Circus lions...? Cast in copper As well as the Lincoln Memorial Drive, this has associations with the Pabst collar ("That sign says simply Pabst Theatre in deeply pressed copper") and Kupper (apparently derived from Yiddish Kuper, copper).

I thought this might help improve the notion that image 2 goes with verse 8. Pls let me know if this belongs in a different thread.  Still not sure how to navigate around here.  This artwork is in the large building above the Grand Stair. This matches the red yellow blue stripes on the homeplate shaped ornament.  I think the star represents the Brigadier General statue in the vicinity.

Hi erexere! Welcome to the madhouse.  ;) Nothing is set in stone, though I think it would take a lot to change people's minds about image 10 / verse 8. The pivotal clues include the tower in the background of the image, which is a good match for Milwaukee City Hall, and the Grand Staircase at Lake Park. The Wiki has some useful background, though I wouldn't go along with all of the correlations set out there. There's broad agreement on this one though. hxxp://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/22148559/FrontPage Please do post any ideas, since there are bewildering cross-references within the book, and any trails are worth exploring.

Saturday we had snow...but today (Palm Sunday) was sunny, and in spite of the 35 mph winds, I made a trip to the lakefront to go on a "birch search".... Shadowrunner had found birches in the Girl Scout Ravine (aka Waterfall Ravine) back in 2006. So I started there. That ravine is most definitely "birchy"!  I saw two large birches growing on the steep sides of the ravine, many pieces of birch trees on the ground, (they could have broken off the two trees) and at least one broken small birch tree. That ravine was called the "Girl Scout Ravine" because of the metal disc/sign on the large tree at the East (lakeside) end of the trail leading through it. I'm sorry to say that the "Girl Scout Tree" is no longer standing.  It looks like it fell over...All that remains is the the root-ball/stump sticking up out of the ground. The trunk must have been cut up and taken away. To the North of the former Girl Scout Tree is one lone younger birch (6-8-inch diameter). The only other standing birch that I could find was the one on the golf course. Then there was the very large fallen birch in the woods at the edge of the golf course... the one that Shadowrunner had found 5 years ago.  I still could not find its stump, but I spent hours trying, using the soil probe . I will sort photos taken today and make an album to share...and try to make a map of the birches in the area.

Unknown: But he reached the bridge by interpreting "compass" as "north point lighthouse". That's wordplay if ever I saw it. I don't think this can be considered trickery. It's really straightforward--two words that are almost synonymous with the idea of compass. It doesn't go any deeper than that. It doesn't misdirect. It isn't a rebus. If you had a compass in your hand and someone said, go to the north point, would you think they were trying to obfuscate? No. It's very direct. Better yet, it's very SIMPLE. Just the most obvious confirmation of a direction.

Step on nature Cast on copper Could that be a reference to the oval lake below?  It could be seen as a big footprint in the natural setting. Cast, as you would do a fishing pole and the color of the lake is a coppery reddish brown.

(This is generally interpreted as a reference to Lincoln Memorial Drive, which forms part of the trail leading to the Grand Staircase and the bridges, and is "cast in copper" in the Lincoln Memorial penny.)

This is the map of the birches I found on April 17 2011. The locations are only approximate. The Girl Scout Tree is also shown.

More photos of the Girl Scout Ravine and Golf Course birches have been added to this album. They are large photos, so you should be able to see a lot of detail. I have written explanations under each photo.

animal painter wrote:: More photos of the Girl Scout Ravine and Golf Course birches have been added to this album. Thanks AP. The foot of the culvert Below the bridge... ...At its southern foot The treasure waits Was struck by the repetition of "foot". I don't really get these culverts...what are they, and how many of them are there...? I was wondering if there was a second culvert beside or below the "final" (?) lion bridge which was different from the other one. Or maybe we could use your idea of going round in a circle, which fits the juggler theme, and it's the same one. The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Below the lion bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch OK, we do that... Pass three, staying west Then go back again, passing three of something else...(or maybe it's a circular trail)... You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth Back at the lion bridge again At its southern foot The treasure waits Waiting there at the foot of the culvert while you went off on that wild goose chase. The juggler is the archetypal trickster.

i just don't like the word "pace", i think that line is just saying see the sign that says the lighthouse has been moved 100 feet. hmm, there's that word "foot, feet"  again

WhiteRabbit. Here is a rudimentary map of the park to help you get your bearings. AP

Thanks for that. Seem to remember seeing a picture of this culvert somewhere but not sure where now. A few culverts might help bulk out your album...

I found this on the ground near the large fallen birch...under the leaves. Since the trunk of the birch shows that it was cut down, I imagine that this tag was on it, prior to its being cut down.

I found this 1915 photo of the oval track in Lake Park, where the Girl Scout Tree was located. The asphalt oval still remains today, but the ground area to the right has been built up and  increased by several hundred yards to include the beach and Lincoln Memorial Drive. The Girl Scout Tree would have been on the left side of the oval, at the close-to-us end. The Grand Stairway is at the far end where the two white poles are sticking up. There are more photos and info at this link.  Things certainly have changed in Lake Park! hxxp://maps.sewrpc.org/publications/mr/ ... bility.pdf

One more photo from long ago...1908...when there was a promenade and theater-seating at the base of the Grand Stairway.  What a pity it was torn down.

bigmattyh wrote:: ...the two red balls that marked the women's tees, exactly like the balls the woman is juggling in the picture... Only just realised the walking stick doubles as a golf club. The shape of the key probably means something.

HAs everyone forgotten that the juggler's items are a rebus for the name "Milwaukee?"  MILL-stone, WALKing stick, KEY.

Sonoran wrote:: We also took 100 paces from the second Lion Bridge. About 80 paces put us at the curb to Lincoln Memorial Drive. The other side of the road seem a likely spot to get to after 100 paces then, as people have considered before. How about this for a radical circuit. Mill Walk Key Start at the Mi tche ll Mansion and head towards the Art Museum (as explained here ). Take a walk round Lake Park, then head back down the Memorial drive again to Juneau Park near the the Art Museum, and end up at the key of Solomon - tall, proud, letters all over him. Solomon Juneau, the founder of Milwaukee. hxxp://www.uwgb.edu/wisfrench/library/h ... /index.htm As for the three you pass heading West...could be anything. Parks, perhaps. Start off at Lake Park, the first, pass North Point Park, Back Bay Park and McKinley Park, and stop at the fifth park - Juneau.

WhiteRabbit, I know that I have looked at other things to count...bridges, trees, statues.. The problem with counting parks is that it is hard to call a park "proud and tall".

Hmm, yeah, that's a tricky line...I was thinking of the Juneau statue as proud and tall, and Juneau as the fifth (park?) (Also wondering about "see a letter" as "lo m " (from Ger m any) in the "Solomon" inscription. It's all pretty vague though - just brainstorming really. I'll probably do a bit more research on Juneau - I'm not sure where he is yet.)

Unknown: Solomon Laurent Juneau was a man of rare personality. Of commanding figure, in height he was six feet four inches, he had brown curly hair, clear cut features, and large grey eyes. While of a jovial temperament, he never for a moment lost his natural dignity; of a kind and benevolent nature, he was the friend and confidant of all. Random research… For reference, Juneau is here, near the bottom of this section of the Oak Leaf Trail . You could see him from Lincoln/Oak Leaf on the way back. If 80 paces got you to the road, maybe the other 20 paces is to ensure you got onto the Oak Leaf Trail the other side, since this diverges from Lincoln further south. This would imply that the puzzle is based around the Oak Leaf Trail. Maybe the location is somewhere at the southern foot of it. Step on nature Cast in copper I’m interested in the way Juneau seems to tie in with remarks in the intro on p24. “In the time when I was born, strange canoes appeared one day on the Big Sea Water. There were many of them, coming on the waves like leaves on a stream…” From the New York Times article on the unveiling of the statue: ”From this spot the Indians beheld the first of the thousands of vessels that now come and go…” This section of the intro is connected with Canada (Vancouver Island etc) – Solomon was French/Canadian. The associated footnotes about “memory” could tie in with Lincoln Memorial Drive. (On the other hand, even if this was so, it could be referencing the start of the trail rather than the end of it.) You'll see a letter Juneau was Milwaukee's first Postmaster. In mythology, Juno is given the epithet Februtis/Februlis, being associated with rites of February (the month for this image). I admit that hiding it by a tree in the wood seems simpler and easier. On the other hand, getting back on the road after the bridge currently seems to me the most straightforward way to interpret the 100 paces. I agree with previous remarks that “tall and proud” seems an odd way to describe a lamp-post. It’s also an unusual way to describe a tree…or most things really. Though I think Solomon would fit the bill. hxxp://www.archive.org/stream/solomonju ... i_djvu.txt There's one other nice thing about Juneau. Turn around and... There's the copper spire of City Hall at the other end of Kilbourn. With the sea behind him, the spire in sight, and this pic on the statue base, could the juggler be Juneau ...? (Note the similarity of the right hand, and what looks like a "5" in the crook of the juggler's left elbow.) Those canoes on the big sea water...

I had a chance to get to the Lake Front this weekend. Here are some updates on birches... I found two large fallen birches by the "oval track" area. One had been fallen for years.  The other fell within the last two weeks. Neither was bright white paper birch, but both appeared to be distinct recognizable birch bark. I was unable to move either trunk to inspect for any marks or letters. I was able to dig near the very-old fallen birch trunk, since it had broken off and left a stump in the ground...no casque. The recently fallen birch fell over rootball-and-all.  I was unable to dig at this time, since the entire tree was uprooted! (No Plexiglas box was sticking out of the dirt...) The recently fallen birch is West of the former 4-trunk tree) Here is a link to the album of recent photos taken at Lake Park. hxxp://community.webshots.com/album/580 ... ity=ykaGWA

Fox, I have to tell you... This weekend, at the Lake Front, when I was at the top of the grand staircase, I saw a beautiful fox!  He was full grown!  (At first I thought it was a dog.) As soon as I got my camera ready, he was gone! AP

Ha! I'm too quick for pictures and no, I didnt find a casque either. lol

(Thanks for the update AP.)

Trohn wrote:: As I have said before, one casque every twenty years.  Why should we get excited ? The farmers almanac indicates we have at least sixteen years before the next find. Seriously, does anyone have a 1980 Farmers Almanac handy?  Id like to see specific data in their sun chart tables that might differ from online sources.  A few tenths of a degree can matter.

Greetings all, I have been away for a extended period of time here, but wanted to check back in and see what is up and if someone might be able to point me to the current Milwaukee ideas. I had a chance to go back to the site this last weekend and go over the area with some new found friends and show them what i thought and what ideas they had in mind also. I would appreciate any feedback on this . thanks Shadowrunner

Shadowrunner, Welcome back! Most of the up-to-date Milwaukee info would probably be found either at the forum for "verse 8" or "image 10". AP

thanks for the help

I know this board has been dead since 2014, but if anybody still comes here I just want to make it known that the hunt continues. I came upon what might have been an epiphany today. I need to just scour the message boards to make sure nobody else has thought of it or tried it yet.