Okay, so I was wondering if Verse Four could be broken down in hindsight for any more clues that might help for methods to use on the other verses, and I came up with an interesting result for crossing out duplicate letters in Verse 4 that do not appear on the same line, since the intro verse told us to look for 'pairs': Extra letters remaining: V A P W G R C Y M M Q U D S N T Possible anagram: VW MY C.U.T. GRDN SQ. MAP This may be wishful thinking, or it just may be useful . . . UPDATE: Verse 1 also has very anagramable letters left-over: P M A S L L L Y B O O G A K F R U can give you "Y'all Poor B. Gulf Map" (It can give you other things, but the thought of poor boy sandwiches is making me hungry right now . . . . SECOND UPDATE: Verse 2 Also has the word 'map' in the left-over letters.  I think we are looking at a provable trend! THIRD UPDATE: Re-Did Verse 2 -- unfortunately, if I did it right this time, there is no 'map' possibility, just the letters: J C V W U L O M M Y A K E E N R S I which can anagram to: ORLEANS KEY W* VI** M J C*** M U **** * = Ward, which is the segments that the City of New Orleans is divided in. ** = 6 *** = Mahalia Jackson Center **** MU (Have no clue what this could mean . . . -- other than everything else may be wrong! :^(

i like this idea meow, working the verse to see if you could have found something to lead you to "cultural gardens" .  but even tho you got "c.u.t. grdn", i don't think without knowing anything about the cultural gardens that i would have anagrammed it to fit. good idea to work this angle

I think this is all arbitrary at best. You can use a random string of letters to form into almost anything relevant--but it does not mean that the meaning was there to begin with. I do not see Preiss using this method, (which is one of those common "Dar/ATT" things,) because he didn't appear to use anything like this before, AND the Cleveland and Chicago casques were found without this sort of manipulation, proving that it is not only unnecessary , but truly off-base for what is used to find casques. Besides why is C.U. T. equal to CULTURAL? Because it contains three of the same letters? That's not logical or inferential. There are a lot of words that C. U. T. might "mean": Cutaneous, Custom, Cut, even CUTE.  So what?  None of these words had any meaning for the Cleveland solve; there's no reason to think that C.U.T. does either, except that you can "sort of" fit it in using hindsight. He hasn't used an anagram yet. Why would there be "hidden" ones in every verse?

Yes, it wasn't necessary to use this to find the casques that were found.  Yes, a string of letters can anagram to just about anything, so perhaps, when I redo the verse to just make sure that I got everything right, if the letters stand up, I can start using them to spell other things. But, if the possibility does exist as a second and third confirmer in the puzzle that were both overlooked, then it becomes interesting.

Unknown: But, if the possibility does exist as a second and third confirmer in the puzzle that were both overlooked, then it becomes interesting It might be interesting to you, but it's really not helpful. To base a solve on something like this is very, very vague and arbitrary at best. Especially without any history of such elements in past solutions. I agree with ForestBlight's mail on the other thread...it's pretty much a waste of time to try this. Anagrams are just too vague unless they spell out real, whole words, not abbreviations or single letters that MAY pertain to an aspect of the puzzle. This is definitely a Stadther/ATT/Dar thing--his use of SP for State Park was prevalent in ATT, and since then, everyone tries to find some correspondingly satisfying anagram for all other puzzles that exist--which isn't logical. The trouble is, you can't simply anagram what exists without seriously manipulating your input--which, logically and deductively, ought to automatically disqualify it as worthwhile. Selective input is not input at all. Two-and three-level anagrams are almost impossible to get directly--they require this same sort of hindsight in order to see them, if you ever can. If it was that easy, it would have been uncovered by now, I believe. You can learn more from studying the correspondences in the two solutions that DO exist...the maps, the shapes, the elements in the paintings, and the parts of the verse that go with them. That's how the two casques were found. It is the way the puzzle was set up. My opinion, only.

Here are some alternative anagrams: For PMASLLLYBOOGAKFRU we have Abysmal flop, go lurk. or Sly goofball markup. For JCVWULOMMYAKEENRSI we could have Jerk my masculine vow. or My miracle wove junks. maybe Smack evil jurywomen. Need I say more! Cheers

Scott Gardner wrote:: For JCVWULOMMYAKEENRSI we could have Jerk my masculine vow. In public!?!?! Okay, must go back to work now . . . (sniffle, snort . . . !)

I personally like the one about the jury woman.....but.... Although anagramming may not lead to anything, I don't think anyone should discourage the sharing of ideas on this board. No one has found a casque lately. We need to have people offer fresh ideas if we ever want to figure this thing out. If someone wants to throw a possible anagramming clue out there, I welcome it. Shseverin11

Though I'm all for new ideas, I firmly believe in the "work smarter, not harder" theory of puzzling. If there are no anagrams, why waste time looking at them? I would tell anyone the same thing--whether they were looking for anagrams, morse code, mathematical puzzles or ROT13.  Some paths needn't be trodden at all.  It helps no one to attack riddles scatter-shot.

I'm afraid I have to disagree.  What we are doing here is brainstorming, and the first rule of brainstorming is to NOT rule out ANY suggestion.  The one that someone is afraid to offer might be the one that triggers an idea that could lead to a solve. So please offer up anything that comes to mind.  Lord knows we need new ideas.

I have to disagree as well.  I don't know if the anagrams that meow found are relevant but as I have posted before I do think that there are some anagrams in these puzzles.  Let me try to make my case for the Chicago Water Tower anagram again. Suppose that you had looked at image 5 and immediately said, "Hey, that looks like the Chicago Water Tower."  You are still left with 2 problems.  First, is it the Chicago Water Tower or a tower that looks just like it in another city.  Unless you are an architectural historian you would probably have no idea if that is the only tower like it in existence.  I was born and lived most of my life in Chicago and I don't know the answer to that question.  Second, which verse does image 5 go with.  Finding the anagram CHI WA T in the capital letters of verse 12 answers both of those questions definitively, I think.  Now it is true that if you found the anagram first you probably would not recognize it for what it is but I believe that you have to go back and forth between the image and the verse in order to solve the puzzle.  One complements the other.  They are not to be used linearly, first the image and only after you have found the park then the verse but in parallel. Two, more points: 1) I think it is highly significant that using the method of anagramming that I outlined in a previous post the only verse that anagrams to something that related to Chicago is the one that did in fact go with Chicago.  2) The last line in verse 12 is "Hush."  As far as being part of the path you have to walk to get to the casque it is of absolutely no help in solving the puzzle.  BP needed one of the rhyming lines to start with an "H" in order to make the abbreviation for Chicago so he threw that line in at the end.  Notice it is at the end where it can be safely ignored. Also, I think it is interesting that the most prevalent method of finding solutions to this puzzle seems to be the internet search, which is the one method we can be absolutely certain that BP did not intend for us to use. I am going to take bclews up on his suggestion and post all of the ideas I have for this puzzle in a new thread.  I don't know that any of them are even remotely correct but maybe they will spark something in somebody.

Not that I am a fan of anagramming, of its subjective nature, but the verses do contain interesting and perculiar choices for structure and words. (as a whole) some go directly for clues on site some have no apparent indication with the acostic - we know he used the verses for multiple reasons I do think there is more than we have (or may ever know) discovered. Follow up on your own theories and see what you uncover (literally speaking)

Unknown: Also, I think it is interesting that the most prevalent method of finding solutions to this puzzle seems to be the internet search, which is the one method we can be absolutely certain that BP did not intend for us to use. Intent does not matter. It is our best source of information now. When BP wrote these puzzles, he probably had the library in mind. At the same time he wrote these, I was subscribing to Conde Nast Traveler magazine, as I did for years. In that publication every month there is a similiar type of riddle/picture puzzle--it's called "Where Are You?" and the challenge every month is to find the exact location, sometimes down to the exact building or object, and send in your answer to the magazine--then every correct entry each month will go into a pot of correct entries and a drawing is held at the end of the year for a nice fat jackpot.  I did these puzzles for years and years using the library, maps, the reference section, and sources readily available there. These riddles and pictures are very much like the Conde Nast puzzles. (they still run them--nice practice for The Secret!)  All the internet does is make it easier to see these same source things faster. It doesn't change the TYPE of thing we look at. We're still using books, maps, and the references they lead to. As for new ideas, I am not against new ideas, but hindsight is not new. And one thing I have discovered is that what works in one verse/image pair does not necessarily work in any others. SELOY is the only acrostic. I think the CHI WA T is a fluke--coincidence. "Hush" means something else--I don't believe it is there ONLY to provide the H -- why not use some other word? Why HUSH? That makes no logical or inferential sense at all. The letter-pairing method that Meow was using was not merely anagramming--it was an artificial, two-level, ARBITRARY method that selectively used letters--and that's not a sound method in any puzzle. If you use anagramming, then you need to be able to use ALL your letters--otherwise you will reduce the chances that your anagram will be found by a gigantic amount, and again, that makes NO SENSE. Yes, the words in the verses are sometimes peculiar, but that most likely means they ought to be further investigated--not anagrammed. For instance, in some of the verses there is punctuation, in others none. What is to be made of intermittent punctuation? Capitalization of some words, but not others? (him of Hard word?  waits the Fair remuneration? the isle of B.?) No matter what we have found or know or don't find or don't know, one thing I am absolutely certain of: when we have the correct pairing, it will make SENSE. We may not find casques, but that is because 30 years have passed and a lot happens to the earth in 30 years--soil shifts, sites are dug up and remodeled, rains and hurricanes wash things away, trees get cut down, or grow up. Just because we don't find the actual casque, it does not mean we were wrong . As I've said, work smarter, not harder. And as for brainstorming, one of the key features of brainstorming is the REFUTATION of ideas as well as the PRESENTING of them. It's an exchange of ideas--not a blanket acceptance--that forces learning.

I couldn't agree more, shecrab. As a case in point, digger7 pointed out the amazing coincidence that "CHI WA T" is contained in the first letters of V12, and interprets that as a confirmer that the V12 casque was in Chicago. This is a prime example of cherry-picking. CHIWAT are not the only letters from that verse, of course. the actual first letters are: WALBITTIFCFSOBH ...from which we can get the following "confirmers": SF = San Francisco BOST = Boston FLA = Florida CAL = California LA = Los Angeles BALT = Baltimore S TOW = Sears Tower CHI TOW = China Town CHLST = Charleston SALT = Salt Lake City WISC = Wisconsin ...and dozens (hundreds) more. Some of these, of course, can be construed as "confirmers" for other Ps. Random collections of letters can be made to fit virtually any theory, and the absence of a useful anagram doesn't rule out a particular location. So of what use are they?

actually, FB, because I interpreted several lines of verse 4 as a clue to work with only the first letters of the rhyming portion of the verse the letters I ended up with were WABTICBH from which I believe the only meaningful thing you can make out of it is CHI (B) WA (B) T or Chicago Water Tower

Why are the B's ignored?

forest_blight wrote:: Why are the B's ignored? they just separate the words from each other......think of them as blank spaces

Both Meow and Digger7's ideas are interesting but in their curent form they should not be used. For now they would at best have us digging in the wrong place in the right city and at worst Digging in the wrong place all together (i.e. a South Dakoda wheat plain). Both of You though keep working on this and if you can find something more definate let us know. The thing you should do is work with the 5 verses we know are matches and see what you can come up with.

Unknown: actually, FB, because I interpreted several lines of verse 4 as a clue to work with only the first letters of the rhyming portion of the verse the letters I ended up with were WABTICBH from which I believe the only meaningful thing you can make out of it is CHI (B) WA (B) T or Chicago Water Tower Or "What a bitch."  Oh wait...that would need two of the letters to be used more than once. Oh, okay...why not?  The letters you need two of are H and A. You know...like in HA! See?  It's about as solid an idea as ignoring the B's. This is where "arbitrary" or "selective" takes you.

shecrab wrote:: See?  It's about as solid an idea as ignoring the B's. This is where "arbitrary" or "selective" takes you. I didn't ignore the B's.  I used them as spacing between the words.

scottrocks7 wrote:: Both Meow and Digger7's ideas are interesting but in their curent form they should not be used. For now they would at best have us digging in the wrong place in the right city and at worst Digging in the wrong place all together (i.e. a South Dakoda wheat plain). Do you have any actual reasons that you would like to share for rejecting this line of reasoning?

digger7 wrote:: I didn't ignore the B's.  I used them as spacing between the words. You ignore them in the anagram. The words you make from them do not include them. I was being cheeky, of course in my previous post...but the idea is true--if you are going to anagram something, you should by rights use all the letters or the anagram is only an arbitrary selection from some random string of letters. Though it's tempting to think that they spell out a third-level confirmer, I think this is only a coincidence and not sound reasoning.

scottrocks7 wrote:: Both Meow and Digger7's ideas are interesting but in their curent form they should not be used. For now they would at best have us digging in the wrong place in the right city and at worst Digging in the wrong place all together (i.e. a South Dakoda wheat plain). True -- but one good thing finally came in the mail -- the actual book.  One of the things I noticed while flipping through it is that there are actually a lot more verses and possible picture clues than the official 12 pictures and 12 verses.  (Especially poigniant and eeirily prohphetic is the picture of the "Spirit of '76", which sits with its back to the World Trade Center.)  There is a list of common city locations for the fairies in the Field Guide, right down to where "Tupperwerewolves" have started to prowl in our current day. Will let you know what I find, and if it co-incides with anything in a meaningful way (or it doesn't and I had a bunch of false positives, which is just as important for this discussion)

I tend to ride the fence on this topic.  I noticed that the verses differ slightly in length.  That may be coincidence.  I think though that there COULD be something not yet seen.  There are so many types of word play that could be used.  Anagraming is just one.  Anagramming is one of the most fun, and it's one of the easiest to play with...  It's also one of the easiest to get wrong.  For example if you have eervse the first thing anyone on this board would think is "Verse" because Verse is a word repeated often here, but I could be just as right to say "I was thinking of Veers". If the anagramming works on Cleveland it has to work on Chicago, or the theory is not going to work on the others.  Perhaps if a third or a fourth is found a pattern will be easier to trace.  I think there just may be a different form of word play in use, a simple cryptogram perhaps, or a combination of two types of word games.  I can't find the words to describe what I'm thinking. I have to assume that every letter and word, as well as their phrasing had to be chosen for a reason.  Why does the Chicago one end with the word "Hush"??  That word must have meaning and not be their just to be part of the rhyme scheme or for flavor. [I may be wrong]. I do however feel that there must be some clue in verse and/or painting for those first two that could provide a pattern of logic to keep looking for the remaining casques with. --Ringo

Playing Devil's advocate for a second, and keep in mind I don't have a copy of the book yet: Was it EVER stated that the rest of the book specifically did not have clues? Is there ANY chance that perhaps there are clues overlooked simply because no one was looking there? The anagram suggestion already made could perhaps be some form of word play hidden elsewhere? Just a brainstorm.  Like I said earlier though, if a theory shows up that can pan out for one of the two already found, the pattern needs to be able to be repeated for the other one already found.  Only then can such a word game theory be used to help narrow down the others.  Such a thing would most likely not be enough to solve the others, but it could be used to confirm a location. The way I am looking at this puzzle is that enough changes can and probably have happened to the locations that the casques may not be there to be found.  If one is/was in San Fransico there was the big earthquake in 1989.  New Orleans had disaster in 2005.  There is the human changes such as to build a new statue, shrink or enlarge a city park, etc.  Lastly, someone could have dug a hole to bury something or plant a tree, etc and happened to find one and not know what it was.  This quest SEEMS more about solving the puzzle and HOPING to find something.  Any clue or theory that can verify that all other work was done correctly could be important to justify time spent in the event the remaining casques are never found.

Ringo - The high probability of failure will make victory all the sweeter. We've tossed around ideas about the rest of the book, but honestly, it just doesn't seem very suggestive when read. A few things here and there sound like they *might* be related to the hunt, but it is probably just our minds looking for patterns and inevitably finding them. I believe everything we need to know is contained in the 12 paintings and 12 verses, as implied in the book. Nothing extra was needed to solve the Chicago and Cleveland puzzles.

Forest_blight: I agree with you whole heartidly.  And if I continue to follow this through to the end, even if that end results in only a few of these ever being unearthed, I am sure I will continue to agree.  I have little to no interest in other similar hunts going on, and the mystique of a 25 year old unsolved riddle is my single biggest draw into this one.  A secondary appeal is the chance that one could be located in one of my favorite cities, being Boston. On a metaphorical level this has the appeal of an ancient treasure like the tombof Tutankuaman.  While 25 years is like a day compared to the ancient treasures of the world, is is a very long time for a treasure buried in a public park of the modern world, a world that changes very rapidly.  If you went to the beach and lost your car keys in the sand, the chances of finding those are slim [although certainly a metal detector would help].  That's a rather poor analogy I know.  But I think it works on some level. Another idea I want to pose... It is clear that BP thought these would have been found a long time ago.  He obviously created a harder quest than he intended.  I read somewhere that he was sure at least one would have been found within 30 days of the book being published.  A few things come to mind: 1)  He probably tried to make it harder than he intended to in an attempt to make it last long enough to sell as many books as possible 2)  He may not have known the areas that the casques were buried that well.  He probably used landmarks that he assumed would be easily recognizable by people living in that area, but may have counted on landmarks being more important than they really were. 3)  I think there is a reason the first was found by teenagers.  Younger people, children and teenagers have a stronger ability to thing outside the box.  Abstract thinking is something that people have to "give up" as they get older.  The few people who get to play in fantasy everyday are writers and artists. Perhaps if more can be discovered about the thought process of the first find, more strategy can be extrapolated.  For example, had they assumed that the hook on the left side of the picture made the shape of Illinois or is that something others assumed later?  Hindsight is usually 20/20 as the subject line of this thread stated...  Can there be other information that was useful that just isn't found yet? I think the key to this conversation is USEFUL, perhaps it's not NEEDED, but useful is still useful. --Ringo

Ringo wrote:: Can there be other information that was useful that just isn't found yet? --Ringo That is the million dollar question....and answer!

Ringo wrote:: I think there is a reason the first was found by teenagers.  Younger people, children and teenagers have a stronger ability to thing outside the box. Certain, er... substances can help one think outside the box, too. Maybe we should light up and read The Secret !

I'm racking my brain on a connection between Thucydides appearing on the stone near the Cleveland location and being in Verse 3 [NOT the Cleveland Solve].  I'm wondering if anything in the Chicago park, or nearby that would also reference Thucydides or Xenophon??? Is there anyone here in or near Chicago that could look for a connection here?  I'm curious about anything relating to the fountain, as I doubt that the Bowman & the Spearman or the statue of Lincoln would have anything relating to Thucydides.  Any thoughts to draw conclusions here?

I will grant that it is an odd coincidence, but it is difficult to imagine that BP had some kind of master list of all the places in the U.S. that the names "Thucydides" and "Xenophon" were chiseled into stone. Heck, we don't even have that *today* in the information age. As far as I know, the names in the BPL's facade are not recorded anywhere except an internal BPL memo we've gotten hold of before. The only way I can see Cleveland and V3 being linked is if BP noted the names while he was burying the Cleveland casque, then intentionally tossed in a red herring when he got around to writing verses. His thought process might have been something like this: 1. There are 50 different ways I can obscure what I want to say in V3. How can I choose? 2. Hey, I know - I'll do it in a way that will cause confusion and mayhem about 25 years from now if this hunt is still going on. 3. Let's see... the names "Thucydides" and "Xenophon" were carved in stone in Cleveland. I'll use those! 4. That way, they're sure to draw a spurious connection between Cleveland and V3 if the Cleveland casque has been found. 5. Mwa ha ha! In other words, the names may not have any relevance beyond what they obscure in V3, and we simply leapt to the conclusion that BPL must be significant because it has those names on it. We would leap to that conclusion if we found those names carved *anywhere* at this point.

I can tell we don't have such a list today...  Besides bouncing ideas back and forth with you tonight I've been trying to find a way to connect those two names to Chicago, and I can't seem to.  It's not unheard of that Greek names should or at least COULD appear in stone in almost every city of that size in America.  Consider the influence the Greeks had on all the arts and sciences. I also think [and I think this may have been stated already but I'll repeat it as it's an idea I agree with]... The BPL looks Greek architecturally, and bears more resemblance to a coliseum than any of the sports arena's in the city do. A lot of debate also goes into the line "with metal walls" as I have already seen.  I don't have my own guess on this yet, unless we go for the long stretch of a metaphor relating to a T having metal walls. --Ringo

Perhaps BP COULD have thought of the possibility of multiple places with both of those names and used the word "IF" on purpose??? I'm also wondering if "All the letters" could be a suggestion to anagram a word or phase into something...  a direction like "use all of the letters to make a new word"  It would certainly be a fun word game, but then you have to know what letters "all the letters" is pointing to. Too many meanings...  *sigh*

There is one Boston-area arena that looks coliseum-ish: hxxp://www-gt.diff.net/media/2001_07_27_Boston_trip/105/16_Harvard_coliseum-medium.html "In the area of his direction" is grammatically ambiguous - who is "he"? Xenophon? Thucydides? I move "neither," because if BP meant T or X it would have been clear from the verse's composition. I'll suggest we take this discussion to the V3 board.

Refresh my memory, but didn't BP review all the clues he had hidden in the verse and pictures for the two casques that were found?  I don't think BP mentioned that there was an anagram oy cypher used in the verse.

Others may feel differently about this but I think he was being very guarded with his answers in order to not give away any clues that would help in the solving of the other puzzles.

I think Digger is right.  BP would have only admitted to the clues actually used by the finder, NOT give away anything more, ESPECIALLY if the "more" could be used to help find the others.  That pattern if any is for us to find.

Something that Ringo wrote in another thread just jiggled together in my brain: S/he asked if Preiss had ever gone to Cons, and I told him that I didn't know about Preiss, but that Palencar the painter of the images certainly did and still does. And then I remembered--there is, on Palencar's website, ONE of the images from The Secret: The Chicago image. It's called "Castle Hat." Now--Ringo asked a question about what might have motivated Preiss to bury the casques in certain places..and why some landmarks were more 'valid' than others, and that he might have overestimated the importance of such landmarks... ...well, perhaps "Castle Hat" was the origin, not the result of the casque's burial.  In other words, Preiss CHOSE the location in Chicago because PALENCAR had already painted it!  Palencar had painted this building--this landmark--into the original work "Castle Hat", so Preiss decided to use it and the rest of the symbology in the painting (jewel, flower, clock, month) and have Palencar repeat these symbols in the other paintings....and the implications of this are that some of the symbols in the other paintings are just there because they would echo the same KIND of symbol in Castle Hat. I can't think of any reason that the rest of the images from the Secret aren't listed on the Website--only this one. It means, I believe, that this particular image was likely the first one painted. So what implications could that have for the other paintings? That maybe we could rule OUT some of the image's images becasue they are simply repeated imagery from the original image! (yes, I stated it that way deliberately.) Look closely at Castle Hat: it has a (duh!) CASTLE. maybe that means the CASTLE in Image 11 is only a REPEAT, not a marker! And it has things DANGLING from hooks--maybe the dangling things from hooks in image 3 are simply repeats! and it has a long-nosed, ugly gnome-like figure--maybe the one in image 9 is only a repeat, and therefore unimportant to the location. Anyway, my brain is still pretty fevered from the flu. Maybe this is just a dumb idea.

She crab: First, I did understand your wording as used.  Each image contains multiple images hidden in it so "images images" might not sound like correct grammar but it is. Second: JJP MAY have only the one on their because he has had such a long prosperous career.  Look at other SF/Fantasy artists who have worked as long, or especially longer than he has.  Most of them don't have every piece they ever did.  Most have only a few examples of their earlier work on their websites, and focus on promoting their newer work.  It makes sense.  An artists website is more like a portfolio of work.  I don't remember which casque was the one JJP is said to have suggested the burial site of, but if "Castle Hat" is the piece that connects to the only casque he helped bury that might be why that piece of artwork is so special to him. I wish that he would do a run of prints of the paintings from "The Secret".  I doubt the reason for not doing so would be contracual, but rather economical, but I could be wrong.  It's easy to say X number of us would buy a print of each, but that's probably not true.  I know that the only one I would buy if available is #11, not just because I am so interested in that particular hunt.  I would only buy a print I would forsee having framed for my office, and visually that is the only one.  The fact that I am staring at it intently hoping to find some clue to Boston is secondary when thinking about the purchase of a print.  Palencar would need more market for said prints than just the people in this group.  That MAY be the case with some of the painings, but I doubt all.

I have to disagree with you, shecrab (what else is new!). If Castle Hat preceded burial of the casque, why would JJP have painted the fencepost? It is mere feet from the burial site, and it is much easier to believe the site existed before JJP felt the need to paint it.

Possible pattern? Using the "hindsight" theory.  One pattern between the first two finds.  Both clues seem to start with twos: Verse Four: "Beneath two countries" Indicating the Greek and Italian Gardens Verse 12: "Where M and B are set in stone" Meaning: Start between the statues of "Man and Beast" referring to the Bowman and the Spearman. So: Is it possible that the other verses use a pair of some sort to start with? I've focused a lot of my brainstorming around the meaning of the names T and X in Verse 3, I don't like that the other two are only one line long, and my thoughts are wrapped around a phrase that covers two lines.  Trying to tackle Verse 3's first line without the second would mean: "If Thucydides is" That doesn't SOUND like it could mean anything.  Perhaps though, a pattern could be found if SOME verses were allowed to use the first two lines, and SOME were allowed only the first line. Looking at other verses: Verse 5: "Lane Two twenty two" PERHAPS Lane Two AND Lane Twenty-Two Verse 6: "Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes" While I don't know what it means, it does mention two distinct thought "tales" and "tunes" Verse 11: "Pass two friends of octave" I don't know who the "friends of octave" are but clearly if there are two of them?? I know I only hit a few verses in this, because I don't know a connection to all of these as items that COULD become pairs.  I'm trying to point to a POSSIBLE pattern.  I haven't read very much on all of the hunts.  The Boston one is my biggest interest, but I've also been reading a little bit about the San Fransisco one and the one in Houston.  The one in Houston has been of particular interest because it sounded like Willhouse is very close and I hoped if something turned useful their it may become useful to the Boston hunt as well. If I'm completely missing the mark in looking for pairs let me know.  However: "Yet Fairy secrets, Come in twos" Couldn't this be a clue to "looks for twos" as well as the meaning of pairing a painting with a verse?

Forrest: I seem to keep agreeing with you, yet I THINK shecrab meant something slightly different, so I'm going to play devils advocate for a sec.  OBVIOUSLY there are too many clues in the painting to have preceded the burial, that fence post in particular, the lat/long hidden on the windmill, etc. HOWEVER: JJP COULD have already done a sketch that had most of the elements of the finished drawing.  When approached by Preiss to work on the secret, JJP could THEN have created "Castle Hat" as the first finished piece, based on an existing sketch of a leprachaun wearing a castle for a hat. I also want to point out that the fence post is in relief, very similar to the castle image in relief in image 11.  I wonder if the castle image on #11 is really a much small building.  Perhaps part of a monument of some kind?  That fence post doesn't stand very high, yet represents a fair size image within the castle wall.  That box in image 11 might be a much smaller item than we think we are looking for.

Looking at "Castle Hat" again; Most of the details used in the hunt COULD have been added "after the fact."  It's POSSIBLE that the shadow of "The Bowman", the details of the Chicago water tower, the turret that is right under that in the image, the emerald hanging on the earing, the fairy, that relief of the fencepost...  All items that COULD have been added later.  If you notice the details of those parts of the image don't appear to be NEEDED to make the picture work as a painting.  In fact because the water tower doesn't match the rest of the castle, the idea could become supported.  I don't THINK this could help with the puzzle at all.  However, it is interesting to ponder JJP's career...

Ringo wrote:: Verse 12: "Where M and B are set in stone" Meaning: Start between the statues of "Man and Beast" referring to the Bowman and the Spearman. Ringo wrote:: Verse 6: "Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes" While I don't know what it means, it does mention two distinct thought "tales" and "tunes" Ringo wrote:: Verse 11: "Pass two friends of octave" I don't know who the "friends of octave" are but clearly if there are two of them?? Ringo wrote:: If I'm completely missing the mark in looking for pairs let me know.  However: "Yet Fairy secrets, Come in twos" Couldn't this be a clue to "looks for twos" as well as the meaning of pairing a painting with a verse? I keep trying unsuccessfully to quash this myth. M and B stand for Mozart and Beethoven, not Man and Beast, which was never the name of either of those statues (and they are not stone, but metal). Mozart and Beethoven's names are literally set in stone on a building across the street from the casque site. It's basically a quote from Treasure Island (see the literary references thread). Orville and Wilbur Wright were friends with Octave Chanute. The last lines of the verse are taken from the Wright Brothers Memorial at Kitty Hawk. It could! Please continue with this line of thought.

And your point is taken with respect to the deceptive dimensions of some of the picture elements. Nice thought.

As for the picture elements: If you notice Forrest, as near as I can tell "Castle Hat" is the only one that has things that "look different".  What I mean is that the castle is all one texture, and the part that represents the water tower is a totally different texture.  However, that relief of the fence post is a motif used in other pictures, and I'm glad you liked my point although the thought process is more of understanding the artist than of understanding the puzzle. Thanks for pointing out the "M & B", and yes I DID know the statues aren't stone, I assumed that the "set in stone" was simply that the statue was imbedded in stone, not made of stone.  Also if you noticed I did use the proper names of the statues [if the wikipedia is correct].  Can you happen to tell me what the building is that has the names of Mozart and Beethoven?  Now that I know that I want to know more.  As this thread says it's all about hindsight.  I want to fully understand the solutions to both of the solved ones. Thanks for pointing out Treasure Island [I did read the literary thread the first day on here, but that all hasn't set in my memory going to re-read tonight].  AND you just pointed out one of the classics I have never read [no one shoot me] ----- Thanks for the help.  And thanks for your continued patience as I try to get caught up with everyone else.  You'e been a GREAT help in drawing me in deeper and deeper into this.  I'm glad you liked my thoughts, but I am a little sad it's not quite fitting as nicely as I would like [of course if it was that easy someone else would have done it by now, right?].  Although, as I did point out a pattern is a pattern only if it continues to fit the entire time.  Otherwise it's just coicidence.  I'm looking for a real pattern that will work all the way around.  One may not exist.  But if one does such a find will be a big help to all the hunts not just the one I am so hooked on. I'm going to test something: I'm going to send him Verse 11 to my father with no information about the hunt and see what someone who has no clue about this treasure hunt thinks of the verse.  I have a theory that someone who is not already looking for the type of message we are may read something different...  I guess you could say someone with a less cluttered mind on the subject.

Forrest: Why didn't you tell me you had done all that leg work in Chicago?  I just answered my own question by digging up the thread that has all your photos of Chicago.  WOW!  I would like to one day go visit Chicago and see those same sights you have already photographed.  Of course I happen to be a baseball fan and have always wanted to visit Wriggly Field so it's a case of getting to kill two birds with one stone someday. I need to say again I'm impressed. Has it ever been determined the meaning of the medallion on the right, and the earing on the left [his right]?  I did see the theory on the wiki that the one on the left of the photo is an upside down Bulls logo, but has that ever been really suggested and thought of seriously?  It doesn't "feel right" to me.  Since the entire painting can't mean something, we do have to assume that JJP took some artistic liberties in making sure that each painting was truely his own unique piece of art and not just a road map to the treasue and nothing more...  the overall shape of the castle feels like it totally belongs to JJP as an artist.  The medalion and earing feel like the need to mean something.  Although it's ok if they don't.  Now that I know how much of an expert you are on the Chicago dig what can you tell me about the painting?

I'm hardly the expert. THIS guy's the expert: hxxp://www.troll-werks.com/The%20Secret.htm From top to bottom, here's what I think/remember: Windmill and turret = Chicago Water Tower Windmill "sails" hide at least a "41" (top right) and an "87" (bottom left) Weathervane = The Archer statue Embossed fence = located at site Fairy = part of the Fountain of the Great Lakes at the Art Institute* 5 Warts = month theme (May) The earring I think is an inverted zodiacal symbol for Taurus the bull (thus Chicago). That medallion has always bugged me, too Emerald = birthstone for May, and the prize for this painting Flowers = lily of the valley (birthflower for May) Possibilities / conjectures: Is that a 41 in his neck wrinkles? What's with his brow? What is written in the lower right windmill sail? Is that supposed to be Illinois outlined on the left? Does the Celtic design on his neck hide anything? What is written immediately under the weathervane? *The particular fairy JJP painted, BTW, is meant to represent Lake Michigan - appropriately enough for Chicago!

Unknown: The earring I think is an inverted zodiacal symbol for Taurus the bull Which is also the birth sign for May.

Unknown: What is written in the lower right windmill sail? Looks to me like the name "Jill." I tried to find out if Palencar was married to or had a child by the name of Jill, but no luck. This is not the first "J" name I've seen in his paintings...the "J's" on the clock hand in Image 7 are another example. I'm wondering if maybe Palencar is like Al Hirschfeld, the famous New Yorker caricaturist, who always hid his daughter Nina's name in his sketches--and put a little number by his signature to tell you how many times it was hidden.

Unknown: Which is also the birth sign for May. Hmm, interesting. Is this the only instance of a zodiac symbol in the paintings? It would be a natural companion to the month/birthflower/birthstone theme.

Nope...there are others. Image 1:  Gemini (June)... the symbol for this looks like a Roman Numeral TWO. Look on her dress. Image 2:  Aries (April)...look at the arched eyebrows of the mask with the map. Image 3: Capricorn (January)...the suit of armor's left hand and fingers (not my best match, but very close) Image 4:  Pisces (March)...I haven't found this one yet. Image 5: Taurus (May)...we discussed this...the earring. Image 6: Virgo (September)...There is a lighter blue pattern in the head right in the center, rather large compared to the head size, that pretty much traces this symbol. It's hard to describe and I can't do the overlay thing on this computer. Image 7: Sagittarius (December)...the arrow around the outside of the clock Image 8: Cancer (July)...to the right of the rhino head is a "69" or 96--upside down...that's it. Image 9: Libra (October)...the little 'fountain' silhouette underneath the legeater's muzzle. Image 10: Aquarius (February)...one of two possibles: either the 'ripples' in the cape, or the fluted edge of the hood. Image 11: Leo (August)...we probably now know at least one thing the swirls on the apron mean Image 12: Scorpio (November)...haven't found this one either. I think these are more than arbitrary or suggestive. If you find one that's more definitive than the ones I've listed, bravo.

forest_blight wrote:: I'm hardly the expert. THIS guy's the expert: hxxp://www.troll-werks.com/The%20Secret.htm Shecrab: Thanks.  That's a very interesting thought.  I had thought first about zodiac in Image #1 as in Chinese Zoadiac and thought how that would fit perhaps in the Houston as well because of the zoo connection....  And THEN remembered that Chinese Zoadiac uses years not months so stopped looking.  Perhaps you may be onto something, which although probably like the flowers and gems in the photos doesn't appear to help, might give some insight into the overall themes of months.  ALSO: as the Zodiac uses the end of one month and the majority of the next months it's a hard theme to consider a solid lead.  I DO like the idea of the bull meaning "Taurus" a lot better than I like it representing a sport team though.  Have other paintings used logos or representations of sports teams?  I know I saw a reference to a possible clover on the wing of the fairy in image 11 possibily for Boston Celtics, but I really hope that's not the meaning UNLESS there was one in each painting.  I also would hate to think of something so modern as a sports team, in the paintings because so much of the first two finds have been around things like the Chicago Water tower that have been around a long time and are more historic representations of a city. Forest: I know that the original finder is deffinitly THE EXPERT, and yes I did read their site.  However, it was also their site that stated "Man and Beast" and that they had used the two statues as a starting point.  I assumed this was an excepted conclusion, especially since they did after all find the casque using that logic.  I liked your explanation a lot more, and it is literally carved in stone.

Honestly, I'm not sure the zodiac symbols actually mean anything to the hunt. I think they are used simply for fixing the months and times, and for utilizing as much symbolism as possible to overlay the actual clues. I thought they were interesting, and I enjoyed looking for them, since I've done astrology myself as a profession from time to time. Each zodiac sign is associated with a particular month, despite it's "range" being over two months. For instance, if you are born in May, you aren't "usually" thought of as a Gemini, even though you could be. Each sign is split into three "declans" or segments, (arcs) of the wheel which gives the person born in that sign varying characteristics than only the ones we're familiar with; a first-declan Gemini would be different from a third-declan or second-declan one. But as for 'leads' I don't think they are leads. I can't imagine why they would be needed to find the casques. They're probaly there only to throw us off the track. I have not found other sports teams. Not even the Celtics, actually. Some of these casques might not even be associated with a place that has a team--i.e., Kitty Hawk/Roanoke Island.  I always thought the Bull in Image 5 was the symbol for Taurus, because the month associated with the image was May. Seemed simple enough to me.

Like I already said, I like your Taurus theory better.  I'm surprised you didn't know about the Celtic theory.  I personally like the idea though that it is some reference to something Irish, and not a reference to the Basketball team. Anyway: Look closely at the Fairy in image #11.  Her wing appears to have a four leaf shamrock on it.

Well, I never said I didn't know about the Celtics theory. I simply didn't find a shamrock on the fairy and that's still true. What is there is not a shamrock --it resembles a 4-leaf clover somewhat, but that's not a shamrock--as they are most commonly depicted, shamrocks only have 3 leaves. (they're different plants altogether, you know.) Also, the Celtics logo is an Irishman, not a clover or shamrock.

I think everyone who has the book should take a look at Pages 221 and 222, which is a list called "Origins and Whereabouts of the Fair People" -- which seems to be a nice suppliment to the 12 verses and pictures possibly intended to help narrow down the search sites. I believe the casque sites are on the list, along with the other suspected sites like Louisiana and Massachusetts (and, interstingly enough Hawaii! -- for the "Unreal Estate Brokers" ((and Alaska -- for the "Paltry Geist")) which may simply be a way of saying "Don't look here.") Will try to scan in the page some time later today before I kite off to Boston to see friends.

In image 3(the armor) there is a clear representation of a 4-leaf clover on the left breastplate(the armor's left).  And directly below that is something drawn in red.  It looks sorta like a sideways S but I don't have a powerful enough magnifying glass to see it clearly and when you blow up the h-res scans it just becomes illegible.

Looking at the book, I see what you are calling a 'four leaf clover' -- but in my image, the petals don't meet in the center and aren't heart shaped, so I wouldn't call it a clover.  It looks more like the cross in the center is being emphasized.  Also, the page is full of the red-squiggle lines, like small theads you see in the special paper they use to print money.  (No blue threads, though.)  And, in case anyone has trouble making it out, the teeny watch says 12:05, and there is a tiny sppon the hi-res scan might have missed also hanging from the armor, almost all the way to the floor, on the right side of the painting.  (Find the third loop on the arm right at the elbow and follow it down.)

meow wrote:: Looking at the book, I see what you are calling a 'four leaf clover' -- but in my image, the petals don't meet in the center and aren't heart shaped, so I wouldn't call it a clover.  It looks more like the cross in the center is being emphasized.  Also, the page is full of the red-squiggle lines, like small theads you see in the special paper they use to print money I think you're looking at the wrong breastplate.  I meant the left breastplate as it would be if you were wearing the armor.  Sorry I wasn't clear the first time.  So as you look at the picture it is on the right hand side.  The same side with the watch and the spoon.  And the time on the watch is 1:00 which (we think) represents the January as the birthstone in the picture is also for January and so is the flower.

Ahh--okay -- see the tiny squiggle thing, and it could be a clover.  But the watch, in my book, has the short hand on the 12 hour position and the longer hand in the 5 minute position.  It's much clearer than the clover.

meow wrote:: Ahh--okay -- see the tiny squiggle thing, and it could be a clover.  But the watch, in my book, has the short hand on the 12 hour position and the longer hand in the 5 minute position.  It's much clearer than the clover. Interesting, I just took a longer/better look at the pocketwatch he is holding and it does look like it is 12:05 not 1:00.  However, the red squiggle is not the clover.  It is directly below the clover.

See the red squiggle -- you are right -- it looks much more deliberate than the thread/confetti squiggles on the rest of the picture.  When I pulled out my hand magnifyer . . . I decided I needed a better hand magnifyer. Is anyone here a specialist in how suits of armor for nobility were put together?  (I can see a hard data-slog coming, maybe.)  I was just wondering if the placement of ornamentation on the armor might be as methodical as the placements of designs of a sheild's coat of arms.  It would be horribly convienient if there was some formal way to do it, like "Your symbol of country origin goes here, your house affiliation goes here, and the location of said house within the territory goes here -- so when you are caught someone knows where to send demands for the ransom . . ." Thoughts?

I see the clover and the little red squiggle, (as well as the spoon and even the little etching on the medallion hanging from the spoon handle.) I think the clarity entirely depends on your monitor as to what you can and cannot see. The little red squiggle I do not believe means anything . It looks like a printing or painting anomaly to me. I blew it up as much as i could and found no discernible shape or pattern to it. There's a couple of these in the paintings. Maybe there was something on the scanner?

I'm looking at the book, not the scanner -- so if it was a printing problem it goes back to the version of the source material that I have. The more I flip through the other 'non-essential' parts of the book, the more I find things which may be of use to confirm some of the current theories.  The fairies were often 'photographed' in what at the time were the current modern locations, landmarks and all, visible in the backgrounds, which the state and sometimes even the city refered to in their bio.  I just wish I knew more about geography . . . (currently waiting for laundry to dry so I can face the day dressed in something other than formal-wear that's been hiding in the back of the closet)

meow wrote:: See the red squiggle -- you are right -- it looks much more deliberate than the thread/confetti squiggles on the rest of the picture.  When I pulled out my hand magnifyer . . . I decided I needed a better hand magnifyer. Is anyone here a specialist in how suits of armor for nobility were put together?  (I can see a hard data-slog coming, maybe.)  I was just wondering if the placement of ornamentation on the armor might be as methodical as the placements of designs of a sheild's coat of arms.  It would be horribly convienient if there was some formal way to do it, like "Your symbol of country origin goes here, your house affiliation goes here, and the location of said house within the territory goes here -- so when you are caught someone knows where to send demands for the ransom . . ." Thoughts? I know a little. Most armor did not have "ornamentation." It was more for hard use than show. In fact, it was often so much alike that one soldier could not be identified from any other, hence the over-coats that bore the "coats of arms" and identifying symbols of the house/family the soldier fought for. There is indeed some beautifully constructed armor out there--I certainly don't meant to imply that armor had no ornaments. However, the primary purpose of it was to protect the soft body inside while permitting movement as much as possible. This is very much a problem with armor. Lightweight metals like aluminum didn't exist then, and anything softer than iron was not very protective, so armor was extraordinarily heavy and cumbersome. Adding ornament to it would have been counter-productive mostly.  The ornamentation always came from other things--that were not armor. Usually a "full kit" consisted of breastplate, gauntlets, arm protectors, gorget (neck), greaves (legs), and casque--or helmet--closed or open. Sometimes there were foot covers, or other pieces--but the more you wore, the harder it would be for your horse to carry you, and the harder it would be to get up when you fell, so most soldiers favored less than full suits. Full suits were worn for ceremonies and pageantry. If you were lucky, your horse wore it also--with a long nose-protector, side flaps and breastplate. The armor depicted in the Image is nothing like "real" armor. It has a lot of extra plating that would not be necessary, and is quite different on one side from the other side--cover one half of it, and mirror it with a small mirror to see what I mean. There isn't much on it that shows realistic battle wear, or even ceremonial armor--and the helmet looks like an animal's head--not human. Also, the right arm looks for all the world like it's got a land mine on the wrist.  One thing that is realistic, though, is the patterns of punched holes where the mouth would be. Those appear in real armor. It is my opinion that this armor is not really 'armor' so much as a collection of parts of other metal machines/objects, put together to look like armor. Several parts of it look like airplane parts--including the fact that the arms are held up by struts, like wings. My several cents. So I don't know what to tell ya...this isn't obviously real, so I'd say that almost everything on it has the possibility for some other meaning.

Ringo wrote:: I know that the original finder is deffinitly THE EXPERT, and yes I did read their site.  However, it was also their site that stated "Man and Beast" and that they had used the two statues as a starting point.  I assumed this was an excepted conclusion, especially since they did after all find the casque using that logic.  I liked your explanation a lot more, and it is literally carved in stone. digger7 wrote:: In image 3(the armor) there is a clear representation of a 4-leaf clover on the left breastplate(the armor's left).  And directly below that is something drawn in red.  It looks sorta like a sideways S but I don't have a powerful enough magnifying glass to see it clearly and when you blow up the h-res scans it just becomes illegible. I think they were simply wrong about Man and Beast, but that it was an easy mistake to make. It also was not essential to the solve. Knowing L referred to Lincoln and that the "ten by thirteen" bit referred to trees was all that was absolutely necessary, once you knew Grant Park was the general location. I see the red mark as 3 parallel scratches. I can't imagine what the significance might be, though. It's definitely not a printing glitch.

forest_blight wrote:: I think they were simply wrong about Man and Beast, but that it was an easy mistake to make. It also was not essential to the solve. Knowing L referred to Lincoln and that the "ten by thirteen" bit referred to trees was all that was absolutely necessary, once you knew Grant Park was the general location. Well, as this thread states "20/20 hindsight."  The webpage from the oriinal finder SEEMED to only draw on memories that by then were over 20 years old.  Your postings were based on a methodical "now we know the answer let's explore deeper."  I meant no offense to the hard work of the original finder, so I hope none was implied.  However, I certainly now think of you as AN expert not THE expert.  And thank you sooo much for having found what you did and photographing it, and ESPECIALLY for farther clarifying the 10 x 13.  That ascii drawing you made has cleared that line of verse up, and is helping me think. That "man and beast" was definitly an easy mistake, but it by chance worked.  I am guessing the M and B were meant to narrow the search to a general area of the city, because like you said it wasn't needed.  The conclusion I am drawing from this is that the verse 3 lines about T and X are likewise in the end going to "not be needed" but are likely to help narrow our search out by a few blocks rather than a whole city.  And I doubt we'll be lucky enough to have a coincidence like in Chicago where something else was "similar enough" that a wrong guess can still lead us in the right direction.  I think T and X will need to be dead on or we will need to be able to ignore than and figure it out only from the following lines of verse.  If we happen to be able to narrow down the find without those two lines I DO think it will be important to go back in hindsight and figure them out.  First off I for one will want to know the entire meaning after, but secondly it MAY help with the others.

I've had a thought about how BP might have picked some of the cities.  I noticed that a few of the cities that we have chosen as possible sites for casques fall on Lincoln Highway, the first trans-continental highway across the US.  It starts in NY and travels through 14 states and ends at Lincoln Park in San Fransisco.  Lincoln Park is actually part of the Golden Gate Recreation area and as I think the casque is north of GGP which Lincoln Park is this works for me.  In addition it also goes through Ft. Wayne Indiana(I know I am the only one who thinks there is one located there), and Salt Lake City.  Route 6 which I can't seem to determine if it was part of Lincoln Highway or not runs right by the Terminal Tower in Cleveland but anyway it was a transcontinental Highway.  In addition, there are others such as the Dixie Highway which is actually used in the book.  The Dixie Pixie is photographed on two different Dixie highway streetsigns. I like the symbolism of this idea as the old trans-continental road system suffered the same fate as the fairies in the book.  They are still there but they have faded into the background. Anyway, just a thought.

i'm wondering also if he found the parks through golf courses.  i know i read that he loved golf, and it seems to me that there are golf courses at city park and lake park, i'm pretty sure i read there were golf courses at grant park and the cultural gardens, please let me know if i'm mistaken.  what do you think?

I think you'd probably have a harder time digging up a public (or private) golf course than almost any other place.

sorry, no golf course in Grant Park

i wasn't thinking they were on the golf courses, just that he took the opportunity to play golf as he hid the casques. but since there isn't a golf course at grant park, that idea fizzled, lol

digger, is this not the right grant park? i haven't researched maps for grant park, just read the solves (plus everything starts getting mixed up together, like charleston and charlestown) hxxp://www.judysbook.com/members/29442/ ... /4/312720/

We must also look at the possibility that the puzzles are deliberately different, because there is no formula for solving them.  Anyone who says so is really reaching.  The formula is this: "The painting shows you where, the poem tells you where."  There is really nothing much else to it.

slappybuns wrote:: is this not the right grant park? i haven't researched maps for grant park, just read the solves (plus everything starts getting mixed up together, like charleston and charlestown) Yep, that is the right park and according to that review they do have a golf course, albeit a small one, however, I can't seem to find it on Google maps.  I can find the address but it doesn't look like a golf course.  But anyway it would be in the right general area.  Interestingly there is a much larger golf course a little bit to the north of Grant park so maybe there is something to your golf course theory.

thank you for checking that for me digger it probably doesn't mean anything. but it would be a good excuse to go play golf,  "but honey, i have to go hide these casques", lol and it hurts my boston common theory, so hopefully it's not true

Kuh-Lai-Bah-Ti wrote:: We must also look at the possibility that the puzzles are deliberately different, because there is no formula for solving them.  Anyone who says so is really reaching.  The formula is this: "The painting shows you where, the poem tells you where."  There is really nothing much else to it. I quite agree.  There is the month/flower/ jewel connection, but it hasn't been proved to have anything to do with digging up a casque.  You also have Lincoln, lions, golf courses.....nah.

Not to mention Masks, Clocks, and water...

Not all the P's have water or masks in them, and the clocks ARE the month theme boogie mentioned.

Since boogie made a sarcasm, I make a joke subsequent.  Hence the face of smiling.  It was just to agree with the point that there are some elements which are common to some paintings and verses, but not all.  One interesting thing I've noticed is that every city (that was suggested) has some piece of distinct Civil War history attached to it, with the possible exception of Cleveland.  Although, Ohio itself has a bunch of cemetaries (one in my hometown) for soldiers and families from that war.