We have discussed this before, but I want to clarify some things I have noticed. Somewhere in past discussions, I noticed. that the picture contains the beginning of a journey. (I based this on both Chicago and Cleveland) hoping to apply it to other images. The idea I came up with was the iconic image, that sits on a "road" that leads to the treasure ground. Chicago's Iconic image was the Chicago Water tower, and Cleveland's Iconic image was the Cleveland Terminal Tower. So I though ok you find the iconic image get on the road and go until you run into the verse. then you turn and go to the "treasure ground." I also noticed both in both cases you turned left or (widdershins) to get to the treasure. A couple things bugged me about this. First how do you know which way to go on the road "Left or right" and second, how do you know where to stop and turn?

So first I examined the Chicago image, and from the solution obviously I know where to end up. however I am trying to figure out what if I didn't know. So pretending I am standing in front of the water tower on Michigan Ave. Which way do I go? Well the guy in the image is looking to the left.  So I go left... Now the verse says. "Where M and B are set in stone.. and as I am driving along the Road, my sharp eyes and keen intuition spot "M" and "B"eethoven hanging on the side of a building. So I must be close, but I am in the middle of a city block, no place to turn here.... I continue on and there in front of me. Is the statue of the Indian on a horse. Just like it is in the picture. So I know Its time for me to turn and leave the image and concentrate on the verse.

Next look at Cleveland, Stand in front of the terminal tower. on Euclid Ave. Which way do I go? the figure in the painting is looking to the left. so off I go I travel for miles straight down the road. Finally the verse lets me know I am getting close. "As the road curves." At the first bend in Euclid ave I look around and spot, "The Triangle" I whip my Edsel around and turn on to the first street,  which turns out to be East street. How do I know Iam going the right way?  I immediately Cross BellFlower, and plain as day in the drawing is a Bell and a Flower. I stay on this drive unti I see the two Columns I seek.

So, now Apply this to an unsolved casque. Say Image 1, but wait she is looking straight ahead, which to me would say logically dont go left or right, go Straight. The key then go straight on which street? and how far do you go. I am pretty sure I have this figured out, cant wait to go dig...

Even more Heretical ideas. So off I travel (virtually) to Milwaukee. and I stand in front of Milwaukee city hall in exactly the spot that I see the view in the picture, (the Northwest corner of Kilbourn and Water) The park that people have been concentrating on is just blocks away to my left down Kilbourn. But wait, look at the juggler, she is looking to... the right... so I turn and begin my journey, oops it says to walk not drive... so chances are its not too far away. I start walking I am looking for any clues, 3 stories of mitchell, the beating of the world... It told me to walk and almost immediately I come upon The River walk... should I walk here? I go a little farther. I find. North Old World 3rd street, Is this the beating of the world? any chance its not on the lakefront?

Very enlightening perspectives!! Maybe the idiom "3rd degree" is appropriate to "beating", eh?

Of course if you stand on wells street and look at the city hall, it works - you go right and the park is a short walk away. Did anybody ever come up with 3 stories of mitchell , the harpsichord or the three who lived there at distance in space...? however stepon nature works - you would be walking on city sidewalks untill you reached the end of the street and then you step off the streets into the park (step on nature)... This would be great if all the clues before step on nature were allon wells st

I think it totally works.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Did anybody ever come up with 3 stories of mitchell , the harpsichord or the three who lived there at distance in space...? I believe Egbert came up with the 3-story building called Mitchell Hall on the campus of the University of Wisconsin-Milwaukee it is at the corner of E. Kenwood Blvd and Downer Street. The next 3 cross streets Hackett, Summit, and Sheppard are all named for people that lived in Milwaukee. Not sure to whom to attribute this discovery. Marietta Ave is the same name as Marietta Robusti a woman whose only confirmed piece of work was a painting called Self Portrait of herself playing a harpsichord.  Not sure to whom to attribute this discovery. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marietta_Robusti

Malted: what is the iconic image in image 3? The outline of Roanoke Island is certainly there, but ther seems to be no definitive iconic item in the rest of the image. Also--in Image 2, the iconic image might be said to be the pentagon of Fort Sumter--but that isn't on a "road" per se. Of course, if you TAKE THE FERRY, it is--(which is what I've been trying to get across for a couple weeks now!)  However, you can take the FERRY or take the BRIDGE--both are really depicted in symbols in the image. So what road do you take? One thing is for certain--this method would pretty much confirm what I have been trying to say about image 2--and that is that you can either take the bridge or the ferry, but either way you have to cross the water--cross the bay! But image 3--that one confounds me. The iconic images might be the gnome-like sprite under the carnation, it might be the bells or something else--whatever that is, we apparently have not yet found it.

and whats worse, there is no way to of telling if it still even exists> Liberty Blvd. in Clevland, does not exisit any more (it was turned into MLK blvd) In San Francisco, The key indicator in the verse 7 is gone, but thanks to this board I know what it is, however I'd been to the exact spot at least 20 times and had no idea that it was missing.

Im in favor of the iconic image as a distant visual confirmer. Image 3's Roanoke is very close by, which leaves one of the Outer Bank areas between Kill Devil Hill and Rodanthe as good candidates.  Pea Island is about the same, positionally on the image as pea in spoon, as the bell flower in image 4, because you continue south on highway 12 towards Rodanthe, "flower petals", which is the largest and most central part of the image, although clad in armor.

BELL Island is also just north of Kill Devil Hills and Kitty Hawk. There are three BELLS in Image 3. The Knight's arms are outstretched like WINGS and there are struts beneath them like wings. His hands touch the OUTER BANKS of the actual image.

Those are all good associations.  I didn't know there was a BELL island.  I just discovered an actual bell on the location I've been studying in Rodanthe.  It's difficult for me to decide whether we translate an object in the illustration as a name place or a visual confirmer.

perhaps then bell island is the start of the journey. remember the verse would start at the end of the picture path.

Three bells, hmm.... how about a historical interpretation?  The most famouse rescue from that boathouse was the wreck of the S.S. Mirlo which hit a German sea-mine on Aug. 16, 1918.  Three times the boat gathered survivors.  41 people were saved...(by the bell?). That mace also looks a lot like a sea mine.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Next look at Cleveland, Stand in front of the terminal tower. on Euclid Ave. Which way do I go? the figure in the painting is looking to the left. so off I go I travel for miles straight down the road. Finally the verse lets me know I am getting close. "As the road curves." At the first bend in Euclid ave I look around and spot, "The Triangle" I whip my Edsel around and turn on to the first street,  which turns out to be East street. How do I know Iam going the right way?  I immediately Cross BellFlower, and plain as day in the drawing is a Bell and a Flower. I stay on this drive unti I see the two Columns I seek. I worked out a slightly different approach.  It may be arbitrary which direction the centaur is facing.  In a more generalized and retrospective view the state shape, the terminal tower aim at being the first to capture the keen eye. The sphere with triangle is a perfect pointer to the road named Euclid.  I think the image and verse arent too different to any of the other solutions with cross/correlative pointers.  The image "L" and verse "free speech" both correlate to Liberty, another road, now known as MLKjr.  The "triangle" reference near Bellflower might be coincidental, but doesn't seem needed to change course.  As for the nittygritty bits that follow placing the Greek Gardens, the verse is definitive and almost overkill.  I'm surprised, and glad that casque was recovered...legendary. In summary, the key elements are find an basic vicinity, pick a path, catch the next turn or two, and then focus on the sharply defined treasure site.  I disagree that the picture is the only determiner of path, it's very cross linked between verse and image.

Never quite caught how a triangle specifically points to Euclid. Actually Euclid is known as the the father of Geometry  is more associated with prime numbers then he is specifically with a triangle. Actually there are hundreds of things that would say "Euclid" better than a triangle. including optics and while he did write a book on dividing geometric shapes , it is not limited to triangles. Really a triangle would say Pythagoras long before it said Euclid... and without the triangle we'd have no idea where to turn off of euclid ave. What I was trying to do was come up with a solution that works for both solved images, and then apply it to a third. I feel pretty confident, I got it right. because I was then able to apply it to image 1. The trouble with your solution would be, even jumping to  Liberty Blvd, it is on the wrong side of the Greek cultural gardens, you would miss seeing the two columns. you need to turn on East, and the place you do that is at the intersection called the Triangle. How did you interpret the picture path to get you from GGpark to fort Mason?

erexere wrote:: In summary, the key elements are find an basic vicinity, pick a path, catch the next turn or two, and then focus on the sharply defined treasure site.  I disagree that the picture is the only determiner of path, it's very cross linked between verse and image. How do you find a "Basic Vicnity" ? How do you pick a path? how do you know which turn "to catch"  - considering between the tower and East there are probably 100s of possible turns. How do you know where your sharply defined treasure site is. Show me a solution that works for both of the solved casques perfectly, then I will believe it applies to another. My picture path theory works for both solutions. yes it could still be wrong, or even possibly one of several methods of solving the puzzles. 2 out of 12 isn't enough data for knowing. it is totally possible that out of several types of puzzles, the two found casques are solved one way and the other casques have different methods. yet if we were to find a third using that method, they odds become astronomical that there is more then one method to solve the puzzles. I theorize that there is only one method. that it applies the same to all pictures and all verses. Therefore if your solution requires a "special" solution or a unique way of reading the clues... I dont think you are right.

By vicinity I mean it's arbitrary where you decide to stand around the base of the Terminal Tower.  Saying you go "left" from there didn't make sense to me.  Being in the right vicinity from the start makes it easy to consider Euclid as the reference for a triangle in a sphere, which only need to be a basic geometric shape and a geometric solid.  It doesn't seem necessary to define a specific turn at this point, I don't see a Pythagoras street nearby, so it's trivial to go with the first Greek reference, being Euclid.  Turning at Liberty seems arbitrary also, but going "left" certainly works.  I think Bellflower Rd. being north of Euclid Ave. is the determiner, but it helps to see "the Triangle". Theres room for ambiguities, but there's just enough redundancy to steer us clear of the astronomical odds.  By reduncancy I mean, L/free speech..., columns in both verse and image, and Greek culture. I don't interpret a path starting at GGP and ending at Fort Mason. Im using the first line assumption that verse 7 puts us at Fort Mason's entrance.  I'm unsure if Van Ness or Larkin is the beginning of the Southward path, going in the direction of GGP happens either at Sutter or Geary.  Presidio/Masonic are the next bundle of options.  I'm in consideration on "sounds from the sky" and "three high posts" (flagpoles at MUNI).  After that GGP is either a point on the path or the destination.

I don't think the triangle had anything to do with Euclid. There is no clock in P3, so the triangle is simply a reference to the number "3" because it has 3 sides. 3 = March, and aquamarine is the corresponding birthstone and daffodil the birth flower.

erexere wrote:: By vicinity I mean it's arbitrary where you decide to stand around the base of the Terminal Tower. You got me. that is too vague, I knew it when I put the idea out there. This is why I threw the idea out to the board, to actually have people attack it. If the idea can stand it's probably a good one, If it is a bad one, it will be shot down. That's one of the best things about this board. it quickly winnows out the crud. however, you are making me think. With Chicago it works, There is no arbitrary, The water tower is on Michigan blvd. As a matter of fact the address of the water tower is: 806 N. Michigan Ave. So if you were to stand at the address of the water tower you would go to the left as is shown by the face in the image. The address of the Terminal Tower is: 50 Public Square Cleveland. So (virtually) stand at 50 Public square looking up at the main entrance. (technically you are standing on S. Roadway, the road that goes around the square) as per the image go to the left, without turning , South roadway becomes.... wait for it .....   Euclid. So I now amend my theory to include, standing at the exact address of the iconic image, facing it and then follow the direction of the face in the image. lets see if that makes sense.

forest_blight wrote:: I don't think the triangle had anything to do with Euclid. Me neither I think it was there to tell you when to turn.

So now apply this theory to Milwaukee, the City Hall is at 200 E Wells St. The figure in the picture is looking to the East. That totally works, it takes you 8 city blocks and then you step on nature... Whoever is working at the milwaukee casque, I think ought to reconsider the verse as starting from here. and Remember this verse specifies walking so it cant be too far from here. one problem is this area has been re-modeled a bit ,road and statues moved, bridges changed etc.

We should characterize the usage of facing in the images, call it a Looker or something to that effect.  I think we should consider the value of the Looker.  I dont know how else we choose a direction to go from the iconic image, but it seems that the direction of the Looker's gaze also corresponds with the last instruction to the treasure ground.  In Chicago we face the Lincoln statue and look left over the shoulder.  Here the Looker is turned to his right, but it is to the left from our perspective.  In the Cleveland solution the Centaur on the wall seems to be more of a Pointer with his Right hoof pointing downward at the spot where the casque should've been found.  Question, didn't Egbert have a hard time finding it in that spot?  Was it shifted from plant growth or something?

As I understand it it was in an area enclosed by a retaining wall. After 30 or so years in the ground the  Freezing and thawing of the ground had basically crunched the plexiglas case and then the casque , I don't know if he actually recovered all the pieces.

Ah, retaining wall is bad news. About the Chicago water tower and direction pointer, it is connected to the right side of the hat, so going left makes sense.  That said, the value of the Looker can now be free to apply only to looking left of the seated Lincoln statue, finding the ten by ten and the post in fixture next.

careful that you are not suggesting solutions that only work for the Chicago image. The point would be to find a method that applies to all images. At the point of the statue of lincoln, you would have left the image behind. The verse tells you everything you need to go left past L's shoulder.

So, I was trying to apply the picture path theory to the Milwaukee image. According to the the theory there needs to be at least two images that plot a path. to the burial ground. well the only two things I see in this image that I can point to are City Hall and the locust. Well if you go north from city hall on water. Turn on North Humboldt. you get to locust st. Turn right on Locust,  cross the river, you are right near kenwood...

That Milwaukee PP is either just that simple, cityhall to Locust, Kenwood and then Lake Park or its something else.  Two big problems that I see are to do with the juggling.  Which direction is she tossing the objects and does she switch things up?  The non-linear problem seems dramatically displayed here.  Notice which direction she faces?  If that is reconciled with standing north of cityhall, then she's facing west.  Everything In the direction of Lake Park is northeast.  Also, several objects are different and just two are the same.  I'd say they look most like the red starting markers for she-golfers, blue are for he-golfers right?  Is there a long drive followed by a chip and a putt for par?  J/k..but who knows?? So, direction...does the iconic image intended to convey direction?  I really liked how the TT does that; it seemed that the building just laid down into the Image as you faced the direction to the casque while holding the open page level with the ground.  If we do exactly the same thing with cityhall and we can tell which is the wider taller spire from the detail then we have a much different perspective than I origionally thought.  It lays down onto the page and we face south with the book!  Lake Park is a ways north of cityhall already, doesnt this contradict there being a casque in that direction? Next I question if the woman follows the same anchoring in perspective, if so then she faces east, if not then she faces west as a different image layer.

Bumping this thread. I think maltedfalcon did some excellent work here. I think as searchers we tend to make the mistake of "looking" for something to turn towards, when instead we should be letting the puzzle lead us by putting identifiers on our path which are there as indicators to either turn or stop and take note of how the verse instructs us to dig. I think malty's theory that this works for all images is still worth thinking about. If I start at the Historic Water Tower in Chicago and travel south on Michigan, I see one of Ivan Mastrovic's statues at the Grant Park Entrance just beyond the M and B at the music hall. The North statue looks like the best fit to the one in the image, but it's facing the left border of the image while the statue actually faces south. The way the statue is facing makes sense after turning on Congress and walking into Grant Park. It seems more like the image is giving us clues as they would be seen from the perspective of the casque and resulting in image reversals.

maltedfalcon wrote:: We have discussed this before, but I want to clarify some things I have noticed. Somewhere in past discussions, I noticed. that the picture contains the beginning of a journey. (I based this on both Chicago and Cleveland) hoping to apply it to other images. The idea I came up with was the iconic image, that sits on a "road" that leads to the treasure ground. Chicago's Iconic image was the Chicago Water tower, and Cleveland's Iconic image was the Cleveland Terminal Tower. So I though ok you find the iconic image get on the road and go until you run into the verse. then you turn and go to the "treasure ground." I also noticed both in both cases you turned left or (widdershins) to get to the treasure. A couple things bugged me about this. First how do you know which way to go on the road "Left or right" and second, how do you know where to stop and turn? Circa 2011