As I couldn't find a verse 7 thread, I am going to post it here... Verse 7 At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept.

It is this verse that I believe goes to image 12 and is in New York...Rochester NY. I deconstruct it this way- "at stone wall's door"- a reference to Stonewall Jackson "The Air smells sweet"- a reference to a bakery where cookies or other sweet treats are being made. Therefore, a quick search for Jackson Bakeries brings up very few, one of which is in Rochester NY...614 Stone Rd. The rest of the puzzle seems to be something that you would have to be there to see, and I can not find any information or pictures on the area. So, if anyone wants to check, that is where you might start.

What else makes you believe it's Rochester? Your logic isn't bad but most of the clues have resolved to be a little deeper than the name of a nearby business.

Someone on some thread said that it is believed that this verse goes with St. Louis.  However, during my number of proposals and errors, the publisher said that this verse does NOT go with St. Louis. (just a message to help us avoid wrong possibilities) --Johann

Johann, are you saying that you actually got an answer from someone regarding the book on a question you asked?

Yes, I received a clear answer, but that is because I several times submitted an official proposed answer to a treasure. However, the answer I received about this verse was in the negative, and I did not receive a positive answer regarding an alternative verse.  In other words, I was told that my submitted answer was wrong, not any hint about a correct alternative.  I imagine that the publisher thought carefully about the way in which he worded his answer so that he would not unfairly divulge information not available to anyone else. --Johann

Johan, I am wondering if Verse 7 is not the verse that goes with Image 7. I am convinced Image 7 is of Preservation Hall in New Orleans. For verse 7: Stone Walls door, I know that is stonewall Thomas Jackson, but could it be referring to Jackson Square?  There are gates on either side called Jackson's Gates.   Here's a good site: hxxp://www.atneworleans.com/body/qt-jackson-square.htm For air smells sweet, the square is right next to cafe du mond. High posts could refer to the towers of st louis cathedral, which has three towers, across from the square. Nearby is the Cabildo. It served as the Louisiana Supreme Court's home.  Here's a link:  hxxp://lsm.crt.state.la.us/site/cabex.htm Object of Twain's attention would be the Mississippi River.  The riverboat is there too. That would be a good place to bury the casque, as any other place would be hard to dig at. wilhouse

just FYI,  I haven't looked into this verse that strongly.  I do however live in Rochester, NY and have my whole life.  If I had to say something about sweet smells in Rochester, I would more likely associate it with Lilacs..... We have the Lilac Festival every year ... a couple weeks from now, that draws Millions from all over the world.... I will start checking into this verse a little and see what I can come up with.

Wilhouse: Sounds good.  I had not looked into New Orleans in detail, even though I have been there. Sorry to respond so late.  I was out of town for nearly a week and only today checked the board to discover the good news about Egbert and the second treasure. --Johann

excellent analysis Wilhouse. Assuming it is near Jackson Square we need to find the giant pole and giant step. There is a giant flag pole near Jacksons gate in the square. Doesn't appear to be any steps though (at least that i could find). Jackson square itself doesn't seem to have many concealed areas where you could bury something without alot of people noticing. The giant step could mean to cross the street, but I haven't seen any good pictures of the riverboat docks. I doubt there would be a great place to hide a treasure there either (unless it was buried in the middle of the night or something).

I have been to this location.  across canal street is the riverboat ferry. there is an embankment there where you could easily hid the casque. it is near the brewery.  I haven't beent here in  a couple years. you are right, the step and pole are the keys. wilhouse

Yes the step and the pole are the keys -and I couldnt find them in San Francisco, but thats where I believe this verse points Tied to Picture 1 it points to Golden Gate park At stone wall's door at the south gate of Goldent gate park on each cornere is a stone pillar with a rectangular door this is iffy but is the best fit I could find. someone who knows the area well might know of a better fit.

Not far away High posts are three From pretty much anywhere in GG park and SF you can see Sutro Tower which is a three masted radio/tv tower

Education and Justice For all to see On the hill Just under Sutro tower is University of San Francisco Definitely education for all to see - possibly there is a law school there too...

Sounds from the sky Seagulls? they are really noisy around there

Near ace is high duh... Highway ONE runs north across golden gate park

Running north, but first across when it crosses golden gate park Highway 1 is called Crossover st notice the ladies arms in pix 1 they are crossed over the park Then this I though was a possiblilty too! When  you go north on highway one throgh ggpark before you reach the far side of the park you pass a cross get it? first across.... Then just before you get to Fulton St (the far side of the park) you pass a rose garden ala the picture of the rose in the pix 1

now here we are on the north side of the park In jewel's direction perhaps they mean the picture of the jewel that would be due west or perhaps they mean another direction

Is an object Of Twain's attention Well the pacific ocean was written about by Mark Twain he thought it should be called something besides pacific... or due north of the park is Clement St. Also just north  of Clement St is Lincoln heights....

Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. at a hospital in Lincoln Heights is a large flag pole  - but its not huge or giant maybe somebody else who knows the area has an idea...

Just to play devil's advocate here: if an ace is high, isn't it generally worth eleven? When I was sure this verse went with St. Louis I read those two lines together as: Sounds from the sky, Near ace is high. I started looking around for some sort of famous bell tower or fountain which played music every day at 11:00.  Anybody know of this around New Orleans or San Fransisco?  Just an idea...

Also, I thought "...is an object of Twain's attention" was actually to be taken more literally. If there is a statue of Mark Twain near the site, possibly he is looking towards some sort of landmark?  I know Twain is well represented in parts of California (Calveras County, specifically), but I have no idea if it is near where you are looking.

I think it has been said a few other times in other threads, but in reality until you find the exact location, you can make any city fit really. There's a scene in the movie Pi where the mathematician says that once you start looking for a number you'll find it everywhere: the number of leaves on a tree, the number of steps to your local delicatesen. And just to further play devils advocate, perhaps "the object of Twain's affection" isn't refering to the author. Mark Twain is a pseudonym. His real name was Samuel something. And the phrase "mark twain" was called out on river boats when there were two leagues of water under the boat, a dangerously low amount. Hope this helps...well...someone. Jason [email protected] AOL: Stageman97

Unknown: The robe has a backward "G" and "H" at the top (P1). Could this correspond to the Great Highway of the Golden Gate Park? Here is a Link to the Park Map: hxxp://www.sfgate.com/traveler/acrobat/maps/1999/ggparkmap.pdf Below is (1) the park map, (2) the robe from P1, (3) one on top of the other {but I reversed the picture} There does seem to be a correspondence with the crossing of the hands with highway one.

Mark Twain was Samuel Langhorne Clemens, and the object of his desire could be anything from the mighty Mississippi, the Missouri River, any riverboat, or his wife Olivia Langdon Clemens. Typically, Ace is high refers to poker, where ace is the high card.  Only in blackjack is the ace 1 or 11. In poker if ace is high, it is not evaluated by number. wilhouse

well you've kind of got the map right but the GH goes at the other end of the map GH is great Highway you need to flip the dragon end to end but mirror it so the letters are forward

Unknown: Near ace is high duh... Highway ONE runs north across golden gate park yes, typically Ace is high (11) but not always.  In split pots or in dealers choice poker, the Ace would = 1. you may also look at the line like this: "Near ace is high" near 1 is (high)way. I'm with Falcon on this.  this is very solid in my opinion.  Get ready Cat & Bird (falcon) looks like you guys WILL have a casque to unbury.

Unknown: At stone wall's door at the south gate of Goldent gate park on each cornere is a stone pillar with a rectangular door dont forget the next line "The air smells sweet" I am still trying to locate pix of the stone doors at the South Gate but I am beginning to believe they exist.  Take a look at what is just inside the South Gate.  The Japanese Tea Garden.  Sweet smelling teas, sweet smelling flowers and the Oriental theme of P1.

This could be a reach but there is a lake spreckels in the park and there is also a spreckels mansion around somewhere. Spreckels made there fortune in sugar. but I actually think thats too far a reach. The park is home to some incredible flower gardens

There you go, thats just like the one I was working on Except the map of gg park I am using is the map that you can buy at GG park, and on that map one of the lakes bears a similar shape to the strange shape over her left shoulder. You might want to cross post these on the pix 1 thread...

Here is the park from the sky: {it's sort of cool cuz ya` can click down pretty close} hxxp://terraserver-usa.com/image.aspx?t=1&s=13&x=341&y=2612&;z=10&w=2

Unknown: At stone wall's door at the south gate of Goldent gate park on each cornere is a stone pillar with a rectangular door here is a picture of the south gate falcon: hxxp://www.inetours.com/images/Snglimgs ... thGate.jpg

How about the door of these stone walls: hxxp://www.inetours.com/images/Snglimgs ... _Lodge.jpg

That mcclaren lodge might be - where is it. The gate you have a picture of is the Japanese tea garden which is not what I was referrring too besides its wood as are the walls around the tea garden I took some pix when I went to GG park on saturday but I am in minneapolis now  when I get back to my hotel I will post the pix I took.

the McLaren lodge is near the easternmost entrance to ggp...looks like just inside the panhandle.

Unknown: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Near ace is high using this map: hxxp://www.inetours.com/Pages/SFLndmrkV ... tmlV-lines : 1. Mclaren Lodge? 2. right near the lodge is the Conservatory of Flowers  (i have also read of a Fragrance Garden in ggp but cant find it on the map. 3-4.  Could you see the 3 posted tower from this end of the park falcon? 5-6.  not far away from the lodge (w/in ggp) are the California Academy of Sciences and the Park Police Station. 7-8.  Still trying to find that darned ace.  Wonder if it could be related to the nearby Kezar Stadium unfortunately, I have yet to find the Pole & the Step

Oh yeah I know where that is... I think you are working to hard on the ace It really fits Highway one high is in reference to highway not high card and ace is reference to one. and first it goes north then it passes a cross and it crosses over GG park and at the very entrance of GG park and highway one there is a door in a granite pillar unfortunately I wouldn't actually call it a wall.... and yes sutro tower is visible from almost anywhere in the park except where trees are or if you are on the west side of strawberry hill

I understood the HIGHway 1 reference but could not get the "sounds from the sky" until you described the road again.  Are the sounds from the sky the cars driving OVER the park?  That makes a lot of sense. now we just have to find the pole and step.  could be another play on words, time to look up alternate definitions for pole and step....

possible poles.... there appears to be a very large pole in the center of the Conservatory of Flowers which helps hold up the giant Imperial Philodendron that's 100 years old. A possible better match is near the Kezar Stadium as I was hoping.  Giant pole-big pole-tent pole-big top-circus. Not far from the stadium is the Circus Center Gymnasium which is the only professional circus training facility North America.  (crap, founded in 1984 - 2 yrs after release of book)

I set off on the information superhighway looking for the statue of a person with Polish descent (giant pole, rimshot please) but may have found something more promising?! ____________________________________________________ Artist:  Carter, Dudley, 1891- , sculptor. Title:  Goddess of the Forest, (sculpture). Other Titles:  Goddess Mark II, (sculpture). Dates:  1939-1940. Medium:  Redwood. Dimensions:  Approx. H. 26 ft. x Diam. 6 ft. (10 tons). Description:  Northwest-style carved totem pole depicting an Indian woman, with bear and bird in front. Subject:  Figure female Ethnic -- Indian Animal -- Bird Animal -- Bear Object Type:  Outdoor Sculpture -- California -- San Francisco Totem pole Owner:  Administered by City and County of San Francisco, San Francisco Arts Commission, 25 Van Ness Avenue, Suite 240, San Francisco, California 94102 Located City College of San Francisco, San Francisco, California Provenance:  Formerly located Golden Gate Park, San Francisco, California Remarks:  The sculpture was carved with an axe at the Golden Gate Exposition in 1939/40, possibly as part of the art-in-action pavilion of the Works Progress Administration. After the exposition, the sculpture was a gift to the City and County of San Francisco in 1940. With the onset of World War II, the sculpture was hastily installed on a concrete pad in Golden Gate Park, where it suffered from moisture buildup and rot. In 1985, with the artist's permission, the totem was moved to the City College of San Francisco College for restoration work. A large portion of the statue had to be cut off due to rot. The "recycled" sculpture was retitled "Goddess Mark II." IAS files contain copy of article from San Francisco Chronicle and press releases from the San Francisco Arts Commission. References:  Public Monument Conservation Project, 1986. Control Number:  IAS CA000010 ____________________________________________________ Anybody think they can figure out where this used to be and spec the area.  I'll keep checking for information. >>>Dan

hxxp://aic.stanford.edu/sg/wag/1996/WAG ... iewind.pdf That link gives the story of its removal and restoration.  It was originally located in Lindley Meadow and removed in 1986. Lindley Meadow appears to be near 30th and Kennedy Dr. which may be too far away from where Highway 1 and all the good leads are, but it might be worth checking out by someone in the area.

I tend to think it does, but if "ace is high" does not refer to Hwy 1....there is (or was) a Casino in GGp hxxp://my.sfgov.org/photogallery/photog ... oL=&imgNum =168&total=604

Giant pole, just a thought. If we are in GG park in San Fran, Giant pole could be Giant's pole, or well, a bat. Baseball. wilhouse

could a giant pole also be a pillar?  many of the buildings around the childrens playground as well as the other larger buildings have pillars.....it seems they too have steps.  Whether they are giant or not, who knows.

I think I may have just located our GIANT POLE.  For this pole we have to not only think big but giant.  The poles on a battery terminal..?...bigger!  Circus tent poles..?....bigger!  What is the biggest pole you can think of? hxxp://www.framheim.com/Amundsen/NWP/NWPassage.html Here is his monument: www.outsidelands.org/gjoa.html sitting on the western edge of GGP looking out across the Pacific Ocean towards the Farallon Isles.  Finding the Northwest Passage between the Pacific & Atlantic Oceans could be called a giant step couldnt it???

Well in that case the giant step could be the seawall on the opposite side of great highway This would be bad, because if he buried on the beach 20 years ago it probably isn't there anymore most people don't realize how transient beaches are but The move in really slow motion just like water. also depending on weather the beach height can float up and down many more feet the 3 and a half.

I would hope they would be smart enough to not bury something on the beach.  Even the most beach-illiterate folks would know that would be a bad idea.  Is there an area near the beach that would not be affected by the tides...ie...grove of trees, small grassy area, etc.... I still think it will be w/in the confines of GGP.

Don't discount the fact that there were very specific instructions in both the Chicago and Cleveland finds regarding exactly where to dig.  Unless the jewel's location in Image 1 is a specific indicator, it seems that "giant step" is the only line of Verse 7 that would qualify as a precise locating directive. Is it possible that once you find your "giant pole" you take one "giant step" in the direction of the "object of Twain's attention" and dig?  In that case, there may not be a physical feature that would qualify as a giant step. I think this may be worth considering.

That is a good idea Dan...except...if the Amundson monument is the giant pole reference...than take 1 giant step from it will land you cement..any way you go.  Here is a pic of the monument outside of the GGP Beach Chalet: hxxp://www.mistersf.com/images/ggpbeac03.jpg

Unknown: 1 giant step from it will land you cement..any way you go. unless of course..... could that be it? IF this monument is our Giant Pole......it looks as though the pillar is standing in a patch of sand.  Along with the pillar is a large rock.  What if you climbed onto the rock and took a Giant Step off in the direction of Twain's attention?  It couldnt be that simple....could it?  Might we have located casque #3?

That would either be north toward Fulton st or West toward the pacific. if that is the case it would be right under the image of the jewel on the picture.

of course due west of the monument is the seawall (on the other side of the street)

falcon, how far away from GGp are you?  If you are close enough, I think an inspection around the base of the Amundson monument may be warranted.  C'mon baby, let's find another one.......

well currently I am in Minneapolis I was in GGpark last saturday - Maybe Catherwood and Dan Amrich and I want to pick a day next week and meet in GGpark with shovels....

Sounds like a plan to me.  We could also send Cat on her way or even frstprzfa.  I know she is going to be in SF the next 2 days while searching for another treasure from another hunt.  At this point, I really dont care who does the actual finding as long as they take good pics.  Then we can cross another one of these casques off of our list.

Well while I was in San Francisco, I just briefly drove by the park and took a peek.. As much as you can peek while driving in that traffic.. Just about nil.. The only thing that I got out of the whole thing is that being the G. H. in the picture is backwards, then maybe the map is backwards too.. That would put the Panhandle right about where the jewel is shown according to the picture.. I wish I would have had more time to really check it out but time was very limited on my part.. Just a thought but maybe something worth investigating.. Or at least give thought too.

At this point, I am planning to be in San Francisco Wed June 9 for a seminar in the morning which leaves the afternoon free for Treasure Hunting. I am in the process of trying to get permission to dig a hole in GGpark My location is a stretch but I figure I'd better be safe then sorry. Anybody want to meet and compare notes? Matt Sparks

Good luck malted!  If you speak to park officials about permission to dig, you could also see if anyone could point out the site of the "Goddess of the Forest" statue before it was removed (see my previous post).  The totem pole might make a good Plan C/D.  Have fun.

I can tell you exactly where the "totem pole" statue used to be.  The large concrete platform it was on should still be in position. Opposite the 30th Avenue entrance road, Linley Meadow, southern edge, the ground slopes upward.

lets meet there at lunchtime on Wed June 9!

ack! i wish i was closer to you guys!  ;D

Good luck Falcon.  I cant wait to see your pics of the SF casque when you get back.  Make sure to take your book as well as copies of the threads from these boards about SF.  You never know what may jump out at you. ps..humor me and check in the sand around the Amundsen monument and the giant rock.  ::)

you better believe it! but I doubt you need permission to dig in the sand...

I knew I could count on you falcon.  I will just have to avoid these boards for the next few months when you post a picture of the old shoe or tin can you found at my site  ::)

lolololol  :D

Today I got permission to dig one hole in Golden Gate Park next Wednesday. So whos gonna come and help dig?

darn it Matt, sure wish I could join you but alas....  :-[  Permission to dig "1" hole?  I sure hope you have (or arrive at) a very good possibility, you sure dont want to waste your hole.  If you come up empty, just take a dump in it and cover it back up  :-X....no really, if you do come up empty...mark it on the map...and we will just keep sending members of these boards w/ the hopes we too will each get to dig 1 hole.

I could have gotten permission for more - but at this point its either going to be there or not. They didn't want me ruining their lawn or messing up their sprinkler systems. Now that I have a contact "inside" I don't think they will refuse reasonable requests, especially if we clean up afterwards.

Unknown: Now that I have a contact "inside" I don't think they will refuse reasonable requests, especially if we clean up afterwards. biodegradable T.P. it is lol.  Falcon, can you get your hands on a decent metal detector?  As Egg told us all, there seems to be a metal rod inside of the key which could be detected.  You could always see if you were getting any type of hits at all (sand, rock, amundsen hint hint) before digging.

Actually I have a very nice metal detector but a metal detector will not be able to sense a small rod (of unknown metal at  a distance of 3 1/2 feet. Still if I dig the hole down 4 feet and don't find any thing I will scan the walls of the hole with the detector. 2 feet is about all you could expect a metal detector to sense through - even that would require perfect conditions. moist soil with not a lot of mineral content, or trash - coins, pop tops, foil....

my "official" permission arrived today. so now I have a piece of paper to fend off the park rangers with if they get upset with me for excavating... So far nobody has said they are going to show up - I'm aiming for high noon - but if nobody else is going to show I will just dig whenever I get there...

come on all you west coasters....let Falcon know if you are showing up.  I know if it were me, I would be raring to dig the minute I stepped into the park.. Best of luck Falcon.  I do hope you find the casque. 3 down, 9 to go..?...  Be sure to take all the material you may need...the worst thing to happen would be to get there and be missing the key piece of information. falcon, falcon, Falcon, FALcon, FALCON !!!!! just a little cheering from the stands......  8)

Sorry, it doesn't look like i'll be free to make the trip on Wednesday. I'm dealing with the end of school year this week.  (My daughter is in middle school.)  I wish MF all the luck.

This would be a great time to find this treasure, Falcon, considering that pic 1 is connected to the month of June. I hope all goes well. --Johann

Best of luck for sure--keep us posted bud!  :)

No joy - it is not one giant step west of the Base of the Totem Pole that used to be in Lindley meadows. Which doesn't rule that pole out. I was using west as the direction of Twains object. Basing it on Twains writing about the Pacific. Now if someone could come up with a different object. but shoot you could pretty much come up with something for each direction. i.e., the Mississippi is east... Calaveras County is SouthEast.... Hawaii is South West... His House in San Francisco is Northwest... The groundskeepers in Goldengate park are really nice and thought it was pretty entertaining. I did notice, if you drive into GGpark starting at the panhandle, you are generally following the dragon... you pass the stone building (park admin) doors in stone walls then you pass the flower conservatory-- air smells sweet. then you pass the rose garden. Then you get to highway one, but first you pass prayerbook cross. you go under highway one, noise from the sky... Then you reach The Giant Pole Goddess of the forest (or where it use to be... after that is spreckels lake then the buffalo field then the lake that matches the outline of the strange shape above the lady in picture 1s right shoulder. Id hate to have to dig a 3.5 foot deep trench around that base  -another  question that remains is how big is a giant step? .... and what significance if any is the ladys finger positions?

Thanks so much for scouting the location falcon--ive always thought the lady's fingers were just pointing to the blocks in her dress sleeve. could be something more?

I always assumed she was indicated a particular number somehow...

did you decide that Fulton Street did not work as the object of Twain's affection - direction? wilhouse

Thats the trouble, Every direction works.... I spent 2 1/2 hours digging If you had to dig all the way around the pole it would take days... even then exactly how long is a giant step? I just took the biggest step I could make then dug a very large hole around it... amazingly in GGpark if you dig down more than a foot you are into sand.

Unknown: ps..humor me and check in the sand around the Amundsen monument and the giant rock.  ::) I visited the Amundsen monument after filling in the hole I dug at the Goddess, The Amundsen monument is not pole shaped, its about 10 feet tall but wider front to back then side to side, The top is tombstone shaped, but the bottom is much wider. and its surrounded on all sides by  about a foot of crushed rock then a curb and either asphalt or sidewalk. Actually I am convinced its buried near the goddess, the question is where...

Both Egbert and I have used thin steel poles to "pry around" the area and try to "feel" resistence. If you use one 3-1/2 feet long, you get a good idea if something is there. It might save some digging. I used the legs from a tomato cage for my poles. wilhouse

I brought a 3 1/2 fiberglass pole. (it doesn't set off the metal detector when it gets near it. unfortunately  it was impossible to shove it more than a few inches into the sand. - its much easier in soil.

thanks for checking the Amundsen site for me Falcon.  I realize the monument itself is not pole shaped but the symbolism is.... Mr. Amundsen located THE poles (north & south poles) and they dont get much more giant than that.  I've never even heard of the "godess?" mentioned before now, is that a large pole?  Did you happen to notice if there were any other objects in the park which are directly in the P (ie..all of the objects found by Egg)?  How about that darn pedestal for the table?...that seems to be something other than a table.

There is the face of lincoln Lincoln ave is the south side of the park There is the rose There is a rose garden near Lindley meadows Then the shape over her right shoulder (your left) matches vaguely the south part of north lake.

Unknown: I set off on the information superhighway looking for the statue of a person with Polish descent (giant pole, rimshot please) but may have found something more promising?! ____________________________________________________ Artist:  Carter, Dudley, 1891- , sculptor. Title:  Goddess of the Forest, (sculpture). Other Titles:  Goddess Mark II, (sculpture). Dates:  1939-1940. Medium:  Redwood. Dimensions:  Approx. H. 26 ft. x Diam. 6 ft. (10 tons). Description:  Northwest-style carved totem pole depicting an Indian woman, with bear and bird in front. Subject:  Figure female Ethnic -- Indian Animal -- Bird Animal -- Bear Object Type:  Outdoor Sculpture -- California -- San Francisco Totem pole Owner:  Administered by City and County of San Francisco, San Francisco Arts Commission, 25 Van Ness Avenue, Suite 240, San Francisco, California 94102 Located City College of San Francisco, San Francisco, California Provenance:  Formerly located Golden Gate Park, San Francisco, California Remarks:  The sculpture was carved with an axe at the Golden Gate Exposition in 1939/40, possibly as part of the art-in-action pavilion of the Works Progress Administration. After the exposition, the sculpture was a gift to the City and County of San Francisco in 1940. With the onset of World War II, the sculpture was hastily installed on a concrete pad in Golden Gate Park, where it suffered from moisture buildup and rot. In 1985, with the artist's permission, the totem was moved to the City College of San Francisco College for restoration work. A large portion of the statue had to be cut off due to rot. The "recycled" sculpture was retitled "Goddess Mark II." IAS files contain copy of article from San Francisco Chronicle and press releases from the San Francisco Arts Commission. References:  Public Monument Conservation Project, 1986. Control Number:  IAS CA000010 ____________________________________________________ Anybody think they can figure out where this used to be and spec the area.  I'll keep checking for information. >>>Dan fox -- I think a 26 foot totem qualifies as a giant pole.  :)  I don't know if there is more information to be gotten from this monument, but take a look and see what you think.  There are a few more posts below the original regarding its removal, appearance, etc.

yes, i suppose a 26 ft totem could be considered giant.  If so, then what would either pole bookending the earth be called?  Humongous....gargantuan....gigantic......? c'mon Falcon, find us the SF casque.

twists and turns! so exiting!  :)

Unknown: If so, then what would either pole bookending the earth be called?  Humongous....gargantuan....gigantic......? Well, if the casque is located there, I'd call it clue-worthy, and how!  Although if the earth's magnetic poles are "giant", I'd hate to see the person's stride that would correspond to a giant step. In any event, I didn't mean any disrespect, as I hope you know. On a grasping at straws note, Clemens made a speech at the "Robert Fulton Day" celebration which could be another streeeeetched connection to what has already been posted. hxxp://www.twainquotes.com/19070924.html

no disrespect taken at all dan...  8) lol "I'd hate to see the person's stride that would correspond to a giant step"  yes, so would I.  If this were the case, I dont think any of us would fit the mold  :o .  I was just hoping that falcon would have found the casque under/near Amundsens monument so that way, I could finally tell Cat "See, I was right" for the first time.  ;)

I also think Verse 7 and Image 7 fits with New Orleans.  The music from the sky could be from the calliope from the stacks of the Steamboat Natchez ( hxxp://www.steamboatnatchez.com ) which docks right by Jackson Square and Cafe Du Monde.  It plays music before the cruises, which is around 11 a.m.  Also, New Orleans is at the 19th Latitude which is in the picture.  You have to walk up a huge levy (Giant Step) to get to the Mississippi (Object of Twain's attention).

You could be right, no way of knowing til we find a casque. I still am trying to fit other verses to SF. so far V7 is the only one I can make fit at all.

My bad.  New Orleans is at 29 latitude (not 19) and 90 longitude.  There is also a big flag pole in Jackson Square.  When I saw image and verse 7, it totally reminded me of New Orleans.  I'm totally picturing it from my trip there last Sept.  Music from the Natchez, the smell of Cafe Du Monde, the big levy . . .

I agree. check several posts ago, I racked up what I thought were convincing arguements that this verse was NO. Perhaps if the cask can't be found in SF, that brings this one back there. wilhouse

now that I figured out how to imbed pictures -heres a couple This is the admundsen monument from the air. And this is the start of my dig near the goddess (the hole got a lot bigger )

what has happened here?  we seemed to be soooo close but just couldnt figure out how big is a "giant step".  This may be way off but what the heck. "Giant Pole" pole aka rod aka perch aka lugg. now students, please pull out your math books & conversion charts and follow along: 1 mile = 1760 yards = 5280 feet = 63360 inches = 320 POLES = 8 furlongs (each furlong contains 40 luggs or poles). therefor:  1 POLE = 16.5 feet, 5.5 yards, or 198 inches. well, we have a distance now  ???

wow fox im am very impressed, i would of never figured that out and with all those calculations it boggles my mind

Thanks Doc, I was bored at work one day reading a library book on the supposed treasure buried near Rennes le Chateau and it mentioned poles.  The minute I read it, I took out a pen and started making calculations.  Who knows if it is right or not but it is a new direction to look towards re our Pole.

hey Doc,  did you by chance partake in TQ many years ago?

Just to confirm: Archaic and less frequently used linear measure 3 hands = 1 foot 1 span 9 inches 1 rod, pole or perch = 16.5 feet 40 poles = 1 furlong 8 furlongs = 1 mile 320 rods = 1 mile 3 miles = 1 league hxxp://www.thetipsbank.com/convert.htm Dan, where are  you posting stuff so you can embed it? When I try, I get an error cause I'm not logged on. wilhouse

sorry fox cant say i did i wasnt born along time ago

thanks for the extra conversions wilhouse....never know when they can come in handy. doc, didnt mean that long ago.  TQ released April 1, 1995.  I remember a "doc" working on it along with our friend Cat... & thought maybe it was you.  Cat....still like apples  ;)

Unknown: hey Doc,  did you by chance partake in TQ many years ago? DocLove is a different person; you're thinking of our friend registered here as Doc -- he's in the Memberlist and he posted quite a bit during the early days of the David Blaine contest.

thanks Cat, do you know if he's heard of The Secret?

I will be the first to admit, there are one or two spots in the verse where its a weak connection to SF Maybe It is New Orleans. But then I am at a total loss which other verse would go with Picture 1

Unknown: For verse 7: Stone Walls door, I know that is stonewall Thomas Jackson, but could it be referring to Jackson Square?  There are gates on either side called Jackson's Gates.   Here's a good site: hxxp://www.atneworleans.com/body/qt-jackson-square.htm For air smells sweet, the square is right next to cafe du mond. High posts could refer to the towers of st louis cathedral, which has three towers, across from the square. Nearby is the Cabildo. It served as the Louisiana Supreme Court's home.  Here's a link:  hxxp://lsm.crt.state.la.us/site/cabex.htm Object of Twain's attention would be the Mississippi River.  The riverboat is there too. That would be a good place to bury the casque, as any other place would be hard to dig at. wilhouse I too like these connections wilhouse found long ago.  The "high posts are 3" is intriguing. how bout this as a possible confirmer?  Not only is there Preservation Hall in NO (preservation on clock in P), but look at the inscription on the base of Jacksons statue : hxxp://www.civilwaralbum.com/louisiana/neworleans1a.htm IF this V is N.O.....once again we are looking for that darned "Giant Pole".  Could this be it?....right there in front of the 3 high posts:  hxxp://www.civilwaralbum.com/louisiana/neworleans1b.htm But what about sounds from the sky and ace is high? ? If this V is indeed for N.O., then what V goes with SF?  P1 HAS to be SF!!

Ok, Ace is high could mean a ton of things. But one thing I was thinking was that the riverboat was famous for gambling, and ace is  high could just be for a straight or for blackjack, meaning gambling, or maybe Straight Street, or straight ahead. grasping, always grasping... wilhouse

Ace is high or Ace high is indeed a typical phrase in poker jargon.  Could the riverboat be too obvious?  Some time ago I was using this V (still hadnt found the P) for St. Louis & I too had this phrase tied into yet another riverboat turned floating casino in the middle of the Mississip docked near the Gateway Arch. With all of the other not-so-obvious clues, would BP toss in an obvious one?  I kind of lean towards the "no".  This is one of the reasons I grasped onto Falcon's "Ace is high"-highway 1 theory.  But in this game....who knows?

Well, if it does refer to gambling, a riverboat boarding area is right across the street from the Jackson Square. I did like Falcon's highway one version also. wilhouse

Greetings from the Bayou State! I found this forum by clicking a link in 'A Treasure's Trove' and found myself looking at the images.  I stopped dead at image 7 because I attended medical school in New Orleans from 1984 - 88.  I then began reading the different verses, and I arrived at the same conclusion that many of you have already discovered--I think this verse is the one connected to that particular image.  Several initial thoughts that I hope aren't redundant: 1.  Is the top of the sleeve of the harlequin the outline of the Mississippi River through New Orleans? 2.  The US Court of Appeals is in downtown New Orleans.  Has some interesting statues on top of it.  Don't know if it's visible from the Cafe du Monde or not. 3.  'Sounds from the sky':  The Mississippi River Bridge is a major thoroughfare in New Orleans and is easily seen from the Moonwalk in front of Jackson Square.  Also, Interstate 10 is elevated through the edge of the French Quarter.  Either could produce 'sounds from the sky'; not sure how 'near ace is high' ties into it. 4.  If the 'object of Twain's attention' is the Mississippi River, my first thought is that 'giant step' meant to go to the other side of the river. 5.  I don't recall seeing a big flag pole or any other sort of pole across the river, but I DO remember seeing the Blaine Kern warehouse.  It's the main producer for the floats in Mardi Gras.  If memory serves, its company logo was a big harlequin mask. 6.  Don't know why the clock is set to 12:00:15.  All I thought about was degrees, minutes, and seconds. 7.  The skeletal hand in the image reminded me of both voodoo and a cemetery, both of which feature very prominently in New Orleans. 8.  'Preservation' immediately made me think of Preservation Hall, and/or a museum, and/or a tomb, all of which can certainly be found in New Orleans. These are just some random firings of the old brain I'd pass along to the True Believers.  I'm going to continue work on 'A Treasure's Trove' in what little free time I have.  Let me know if you find a casque! Keep on believin', Doc

I'm very new to this hunt. I live near San Francisco so I've been tracing the Image 1/Verse 7/SF connection. I just posted an Image 1 analysis in that thread: hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h ... 320#p22320 Here's my take on Verse 7 and its connections to San Francisco's Ghirardelli Square and Aquatic Park: At stone wall's door - There are lots of brick and cement walls nearby; no obvious stone wall The air smells sweet - Ghirardelli Square chocolate factory Not far away High posts are three - There are three flagpoles on the Ghirardelli building right behind the big sign. In addition the three masts of the Balclutha ship are plainly visible. Education and Justice For all to see - Justice could mean Alcatraz prison, plainly visible. No idea what Education could refer to. Sounds from the sky - Crissy Field, a military airbase just a couple miles away, might still have been in operation in 1981. This could also refer to the G Bridge (next) Near ace is high Running north - The Golden Gate Bridge is in clear view, which is Highway 1, running north to Marin County but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention - The "sidewheel paddle steamboat" Eureka is docked at Hyde Street Pier next to Aquatic Park ( hxxp://www.nps.gov/safr/local/eureka.html ). In addition there was a smaller riverboat called the Delta King that might have been housed at Aquatic Park in the early 80's. (All I know so far is that it was moved back to SF Bay in 1980, before being transported to Pt. Richmond in late 1981, where it sank). Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept - Of course these last lines are the trickiest. Even if you can pinpoint a giant pole and step, how are these directions specific enough to lead you to a single digging spot? Suffice it to say that there are quite a few flagpoles and such in the area, but none have a big obvious "step" next to them. Anyway there are a lot of connections, but some of the biggest ones -- the stone wall, the giant pole and step -- aren't there yet. But I hope I've been able to trigger some new ideas at least. Thanks, Rob

as stated in P1 thread Aces...I really like where you are going with this line of thought..... now, if you could only find that darned infamous Giant Pole & Giant Step...than I think you may even begin to sway Falcon

Thanks for the welcome guys. That's an interesting find about "step" also meaning the block of a mast. Of course I was looking for tall masts when I went to Aquatic Park yesterday. There are plenty of them, mostly attached to ships of course. The real problem is finding one you could dig near. There is a Maritime Museum there which has mast sections and footings on display, but inside on concrete floors. Out on Hyde Street Pier there is an office made out of a landed tugboat and it has a big mast or pole attached to it, but again nowhere obvious to dig. I took a couple photos during my walk around -- on my cell phone since I didn't have a digital camera with me. If the photos come out I'll post a couple of them here. I suppose I'll also try to find out if they've relandscaped the park since the early 80's. Maybe there used to be a more prominent ship's mast there somewhere.

Aces88 wrote:: Of course I was looking for tall masts when I went to Aquatic Park yesterday. There are plenty of them, mostly attached to ships of course. The real problem is finding one you could dig near. just pack a snorkel and some flippers...find the right mast....dive in and dig nah...just goofing

Oh hi! I welcomed you in the other thread before I saw this one. If Alcatraz = Justice, and Balcutha = Education, I think we're getting more and more confirmers for this area I remember walking the length of Crissy Field in search of a giant pole.  They do have a statue and a flag pole, but it didn't hit me in the gut as being accurate enough.  And now i forget what i did with my notes about who the statue was in memorial of...

From the Balclutha website: The ship was transferred to the National Park Service in 1978, and Balclutha was designated a National Historic Landmark in 1985 So exactly when was they Balclutha parked at the hyde St Peir - Wasn't it over in Sausilito for  while or was that the Berkely ferry boat?

Could the "giant pole" refer to the flagpole in the Presidio, in Pershing Square?  Is there a "giant step" nearby? Drew

In 1982, the Presido was an active military installation Without a  valid reason to be there  Byron Priess  would not have been allowed onto the base, much less dig holes and bury things.

maltedfalcon wrote:: In 1982, the Presido was an active military installation Without a  valid reason to be there  Byron Priess  would not have been allowed onto the base, much less dig holes and bury things. Good point...but could then the "high posts are three" refer to three military posts being nearby? Drew

Sure they could, which 3 and then what does High signify?

maltedfalcon wrote:: Sure they could, which 3 and then what does High signify? This map shows the location of "posts" in the area.  Aren't some of these on cliffs? hxxp://data2.itc.nps.gov/parks/goga/ppM ... park%2Epdf

The Presidio and Fort Mason are all on the heights but the rest of the ones in SF are all pretty much Sea Level. Still I wouldnt call the Presido high although it has hills a lot of is down in valleys. - Fort Mason would qualify - its at the top of a hill. Accoss the bridge Fort Barry is at the top of Hawk Hill - If you've never been there its worth a trip huge tunnels through the hills and giant gun emplacements overlooking the pacific. the majority of the base was underground and is sealed off.

hi ya'll...holli here...i thought that the 3 high referred to the golden gate bridge...the stone door was the building under the bridge...am i way off? or am i used to thinking simple...due to mstadther?  lol feedback welcome...thanks holli

Yes that could be a possibliity although why is the GG bridge 3 high I would think it would count as two high. Highway one crosses the bridge. I thought once that the window in the cliff might reference fort point. (the building under the bridge) There is no dirt around fort point at all  its all stone and rock where would the treasure be buried?

hey malt...i just thought it would be one of the reference points...i have found the justice and education in a different place than what was suggested...as well as Twain's affection... are u in san fran??? let me know... thanx holli

Actually I live northeast of Sacramento  - So Im a couple hours away. Ive always said - until its found every idea is as good as the next. My solution puts it in Golden Gate Park. Ive got a good solution for every line of verse 7 but when I went to dig it wasnt there -so obviously there is the possibility I am totally wrong. Love to hear your ideas. - Id love someone to find a casque before they release the answers- assuming they are going to release the answers at some point. I spent the last year reading everything Twain wrote about SF what did you think is  the object of his attention?

check your pm's ...thanks

If Verse 7 refers to San Francisco, "The air smells sweet / Not far away / High posts are three" could refer to the cluster of three tall building less than 3 blocks from Ghirardelli Square: 2677 Larkin St. (lowrise apartment building built in 1923) 1000 Chestnut St. (highrise apartment building built in the 1950s or 60s) 1080 Chestnut St. (highrise apartment building built in the early 1960s)

this has been brought up some time ago and I find myself leaning towards this explanation.,,,...especially w/ the Gh on robe matching Gh on chocolate sign.

I'd by that if the stripe on the dress, that is labeled GH did not set exactly on the Great Highway - if you reverse the map and overlay it onto a GGPark tourist map. Highway one doesn't go over by Fishermans wharf. So in that scenario what is aces high?

Its been suggested that Giant pole in this verse is refering to someone Polish. There is a statue in the GG Park of Thomas Garrigue Masaryk who was the first president of Checkoslavakia. He also promoted an independent Poland. Its a stretch but it may be worth checking out. (sorry if this has already been posted) hxxp://www.lightight.com/GGP/mem_images/Mem3P04.html

Darn you soonerfan (lol)....everytime something is posted that is very promising and makes me decide this is it...someone else comes along and does the same thing for a different location. At least I know it is in San Francisco................................................................................................or is it?

SoonerFan wrote:: Its been suggested that Giant pole in this verse is refering to someone Polish. There is a statue in the GG Park of Thomas Garrigue Masaryk who was the first president of Checkoslavakia. He also promoted an independent Poland. Its a stretch but it may be worth checking out. If Masaryk were actually Polish, I could certainly see it, but I think it's too much of a stretch to refer to a Slovak/Moravian as a Pole.  (But I do recommend that we keep looking for statues/plaques referring to Poles, regardless.) Drew

Okay...as a guy in the Bay Area, I'm gonna give this some thought. I work 10 minutes south of SF...

just as a thought did anyone consider the justice and education could be in reference to a law school???

Bumping this verse up to the top as it has been mentioned in other threads. To recap where we (I) am at with this... "At stone wall's door    The air smells sweet" No specific place identified "Not far away  High posts are three Education and Justice   For all to see" Tulane, Loyola, and ?  schools (on St Charles street in the Garden Distrct) "Sounds from the sky  Near Ace is High" Near ace is  'King', but no specfic place idenitfied "Running North, but First Across In Jewel's Direction Is an object  Of Twain's attention" This is taken to be the MIsissippi river and its Riverboats "Giant Pole"  see photo The Liberty Monument was erected on Canal Street a few blocks from the river and very cloe to Preservation Hall. hxxp://www.canalstreetcar.com/archives/2004/06/ hxxp://www.canalstreetcar.com/archives/history/ In 1988 it was taken down and moved... you must use this landmark from its 1982 location. "Giant Step"  still no idea Concrete blocks surronded the monument to prevent vandals (read up on this particular history - interesting) "To the Place The casque is kept" The Liberty Monument was originally across from Canal Place (park) I find his use of the therm 'place' here to be clever Between the site of the monuemnt and Canal Place ru. trolly tracks.  Could the giant step be walking over the tracks? Have to feel that this casque is most likely lost. Before the flooding, much revitalization was orccuring in the area. Found the photo and wanted to share. I was originally thinking of 'Liberty Place' to chain this location into a possible Boston location.  (free association)

Photo from 1975... hxxp://www-sal.cs.uiuc.edu/~friedman/canal/Pic273.htm Of course if that were truly the case, current debates about memorials would not be so acrimonious. Take the case of the New Orleans Liberty Monument, which in 1993 was finally removed from its place on busy Canal Street to a more obscure location. Erected in 1891, the Liberty Monument commemorates the so-called Battle of Liberty Place—an 1874 skirmish between members of the racist White League and an alliance of Republican whites and newly enfranchised African Americans. While the monument included the names of the anti-Reconstruction White Leaguers, it did not until recently include the names of the mostly black militia members who died fighting them. Over the years, various plaques were added to the imposing obelisk alternately affirming or attempting to neutralize the monument's original message. When the whole structure was temporarily removed in 1989, ostensibly to allow for street repairs, preservationists and civil rights activists engaged in opposing rallies. "Take that sucker out in the Atlantic Ocean and dump it," demanded a civil rights activist who believed a monument to white supremacy had no place in a city with a majority African-American population. In response to such sentiments Richard Bell, president of the Louisiana Historical Society, told the Christian Science Monitor that "You can't go around destroying statues and monuments because of the political atmosphere of the day. Where would it end?"

OK... here we go.. "At stone wall's door The air smells sweet" Cafe du Monde is located in Jackson Square at 800 Peter street.  It is (has been for over a hundred years) an al'fresco coffe and cruecent cafe. To link this location into the image (7) see... hxxp://www.sidewalkastronomy.com/sidewa ... html#gotop which ties to the moon and stars of the crescent portion of the clock. Preservation Hall is at 700 Peter Street, less than a block away. To further confirm the French Quarter of New Orleans, I do not know if this has been noted, but one quarter of the clock face is hidden by the mask. (This is reinforced by the ability to read three corner numbers of the four corners) "Not far away, high posts are three, Education and Justice for all to see" Acrosss from Audubon Park (Due West from Jackson Square) are Loyola, Tulane Universities and Newcomb College. (All within a small city block)  This is due west, following the natural flow of the river. It saids 'not far away' so while this is not the site for the casque, it does motivate you to walk in that direction. "Sounds from the sky"  Can inamge that he is referring to the abundant balconies of the crowded street usually jammed with partiers and bead throwers. "Near ace is high"  Near ace is either King or Queen or Jack (poker cards)  During the current two or three blockwalk, across from Preservation Hall are the River Boat docks - and specifically the dock for the 'Creole Queen' I assume with the proximity of the water level, the boats do tower above the streets that hug the shore. "Running North from first across in Jewel's direction Is an object of Twain's attention" As already discussed about the flow of the river, I believe that this is simply a confirmer of both the city and the choice to be walking west. "Giant Pole"  Canal street and Decauter. (1982 site) See my lengthy post from earlier this week. A scant three blocks from Cafe du Monde and within sight (I assume) of the Preservation Hall. "Giant Step - To the Place the Casque is Kept" wish I knew.....  from 1982.

"Giant Step - To the Place the Casque is Kept" Simon Saids!! It is one giant step due west from the Liberty Monument. In the green island medium of Canal Street! see the 1975 photo. Construction and floods....  who knows what there is left to find... Any takers?

And another found change to document, across the street towards the river from this site WAS the Planetarium.... now its is the IMAX theater. (next to the aquarium)

wilhouse wrote:: Stone Walls door, I know that is stonewall Thomas Jackson, but could it be referring to Jackson Square?  There are gates on either side called Jackson's Gates.   Here's a good site: hxxp://www.atneworleans.com/body/qt-jackson-square.htm For air smells sweet, the square is right next to cafe du mond. High posts could refer to the towers of st louis cathedral, which has three towers, across from the square. Nearby is the Cabildo. It served as the Louisiana Supreme Court's home.  Here's a link:  hxxp://lsm.crt.state.la.us/site/cabex.htm Object of Twain's attention would be the Mississippi River.  The riverboat is there too. That would be a good place to bury the casque, as any other place would be hard to dig at. wilhouse here's some stuff we talked about a long time ago. perhaps some of it is still relevant. perhaps not... wilhouse

Good stuff Wilhouse from a few years ago... same starting point with similar observations The Cabildo is where the death mask of Napoleon is (was ?) displayed. Moving from Cafe du Monde to the Cathedral is traveling away from the river. "Running North but first Across In jewel's direction"  this should direct one to first travel west and then north with Cafe du Monde as the start. If there are four gates of square, the 'door' closest to Cafe du Monde would satisfy the first two lines. I found the Liberty Monument and worked backwards through the directions. I have found nothing else to qualify as a Giant Pole.  and yes, not too many places to bury - but as long as the the Preservation Hall is in direct sight, the image should be in play. Giant Step works like 'seven hops' from Cleveland. The mainthing to remember is that the Liberty Monumnet is not in its 1982 location today..

Nice tie ins Trohn.  I would have to agree with this theory.  This all seems very solid....especially the Giant Pole that once was there.  Anyone out there near N.O.?  We need re-con.

Due to a recent inquiry, I wanted to bump this one up so as we could determine he next course of action... hxxp://www.maisondupuy.com/location.html This is the area in question. Three poles to investigate: - Liberty Pole - Robert E Lee Monument - Battlefield Monument

Why the Maison Dupuy?  I am still betting on Jackson Square....

Fox- I only used that link becuase it had a pretty good map. I am trying to like the clock on the Cathedral of St Louis there. Also, trying to like the statue of Jackson's horse to the animal head in the image. Still am unconvinced though on those details.

A mystery pole near Coit Tower. Could this be the "giant pole"?

"Near ace is high" hxxp://www.rokkorfiles.com/Day%2014%20Continued.htm Interpretations... 'near ace' is high ..... near ace - jacks = jax Near 'ace' is high (near meaning close to where you are standing at stone wall's door) ace = A  (high meaning in the sky) Keeps you on the river front and easily seen from Du Monde.

This may have been addressed in another post but time for work so here goes..... Could not the big step and Giant Pole not be a big 'step' from the flag pole in Jackson Square?  Has anyone hit these areas with a metal detector *** or is that cheating?  Just a couple of ramblings from an old woman from Alabama*** for what its worth *** I spent some time in New Orleans during the golden horse hunt and the federal building in this district is shaped like a giant 'H' ..... something to think about.  Well off to work talk at you guys tonight maybe

Trohn - clever! I like it. Jax ... (queen ... king) ... ACE. Back in San Francisco, "Near ace is high could refer to Alta Street on Telegraph Hill, or the hill itself (it was originally called Loma Alta, "High Hill").

Here is the plaque mentioned some time ago by Voltaire. It is just above the 3:00 position on the parking circle in this aerial photograph of Telegraph Hill. May have some connection to the giant pole, sounds from the sky, etc. but the monument itself had disappeared by the time The Secret was written.

Whoa!  I am pretty sure that, "Sounds from the sky Near ace is high"  means near the airport, and near highway 1.  Stretching it a bit guys. And the Liberty pole makes sense, because it is a giant pole, and gaining Liberty is a giant step.  But whre to dig And where is the Liberty Pole? What happened to Angel Island? -regulus

All theories welcome, regulus. I think airports and liberty poles are way too obvious and literal. This is a riddle, after all. Radio signals could be "sounds from the sky." For giant poles think towers, or maybe a statue of Casimir Pulaski. Another reason to consider Telegraph Hill: There is a memorial to Marconi (inventer of the radio) right on Telegraph Hill Blvd. and Lombard. The inscription on it reads "FULGURA PRAEVERTENS VACUAM VOX PERMEAT AETHRAM," or "'Outstripping the lighting, the voice races through the clear, empty sky." Sure sounds like sounds from the sky to me.

I really don't think that an airport or the liberty pole are too obvious. anyone have any pics

By the way the object of Twain's attention is,  either a Huckelberry tree (i might be dumb ) or  A WHITE PICKET FENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Tom Sawyer. any thoughts?

Or... 'Life on the Mississippi'

I'm telling you guys, Liberty Pole is definitely NOT to obvious.  Or the airport.  Just follow the verse.

again, The object of Twain's attention is,  either a Huckelberry tree (i might be dumb ) or  A WHITE PICKET FENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Tom Sawyer. any thoughts?

Okay, this post is attached (sort of) to my Image 1 post. I believe this points to GG Park in SF. There are a ew blanks here, and wthout access to the park (I'm east coast) it cannot be verified. This is my theory for Shakespeare Garden in GG Park. "At stone wall's door The air smells sweet" ---The bust of Shakespeare is in a wall (brick) at the back of the Garden, behind a door that is usually closed. "Not far away High posts are three" ---Not really sure about this one "Education and Justice For all to see" ---There are supposed Shakespeare quotes on the wall here, wondering if this gives reference? "Sounds from the sky" ---Again, hoping being there gives reference "Near ace is high Running north, but first across" ---This is a big clue. RTE 1 (from the south) runs north through the park, turns east, then north again. This puts us in the PARK "In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention" ---Could be alot of things. Think this helps with locating SF as City, could also help with Shakespeare? "Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept" ---Again, could be a few things. Need to be there to verify any of it. But also think the 2 G's for Giant are a clue to Golden Gate I know this is alot re-hashed stuff, maybe some new ideas thrown in, but I feel like this is the place.

I am currently reading "The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn" for high school. The object of Twain's attention could be a number of things, river, raft, canoe, white picket fence, apple core (perhaps a bar or pub named "the apple core bar and grill"),  "The Great American Novel" is a book that he wrote, we could be looking for a "great american" statue? By the way, sounds from the sky, IS AN AIRPORT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

regulus wrote:: sounds from the sky, IS AN AIRPORT! The SFO airport cannot be heard from San Francisco, as it is located 20 miles to the south in South San Francisco (another city entirely).  There is Crissy Field which hasn't been an airfield in xxx years, probably wasn't one even back in 1980. Even standing directly under the Golden Gate Bridge -- which you cannot actually do -- the cars are too high up to hear the traffic.  There is a park and information center at one end, and a trail around the water's edge, but I don't remember hearing any sound from the sky.

oh, sorry I thought that someone said that the verse led them past an airport. Another object of Twain's attention could be a steamboat.

Sounds from the sky is "thunder".

Sounds from the sky could be many things. A bird sanctuary nearby--or a bird nesting site, for instance. Thunder, as has been mentioned. Bells from a church steeple, music from another business---helicopters flying overhead from traffic-watchers, commuters, etc. However....I have an idea that this verse does not represent SF but New Orleans, and goes with P7. At stone wall's door , is Stonewalls' Door--i.e., the South; the air smells sweet =magnolias; not far away high posts are three =the cathedral at Jackson Square's three spires; Education and Justice for all to see=the museums and historical buildings that have replaced the places where slaves were traded; sounds from the sky=birds or the bells in the church; near ace is high (not sure yet--still looking); running north but first across=the configuration of the river that feeds the lagoon... I'm still looking at this. Keeping an open mind here. Maybe it is NO, maybe not. But it does seem to go with the picture to me. Also, I believe I posted that the horse-head in P7 had its mouth open and that was unusual...it is. However, the equestrian statue of Andrew Jackson Jackson Square has a horse with mouth open much like the image. So I do have to capitulate on that one. c

Shecrab- read earlier posts on this thread... regarding New Orleans... "Air smells sweet" -->  french open air cafe with coffee and bagettes (name eascapes me) "Near ace is high" --->  JAX Brewery. "Sounds from the sky"  could also mean the balconies along the street The flow of the verse is from southeast corner of Jackson Square to the west along the banks of the river.

"Giant Pole Giant step      (mother may I?) To the place The casque is kept" Liberty Place hxxp://www.canalstreetcar.com/archives/2004/06/ where it was before they moved it.  (around '87 or '88) The date of June 2004 is the article date, not the photo date. (this is/was the foot of canal strret)

Oooh...I believe these are right on!! I love it. Coupla things: Jax Brewery and Ace is high--do you mean high as in drunk? LOL...or did I miss the connection somewhere else? I forgot about this one too: hxxp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... .htm  There would be "aces" there. And high ones at that. And the sounds from the sky could be those airplanes, very easily. Military jets make LOTS of noise. I like Liberty Place---I take it it's gone now? What is there now? I think this casquemay be a lost cause, due to Katrina's damage.  has anyone done any digging in NO? c

shecrab wrote:: Oooh...I believe these are right on!! I love it. Coupla things: Jax Brewery and Ace is high--do you mean high as in drunk? LOL...or did I miss the connection somewhere else? I forgot about this one too: hxxp://www.globalsecurity.org/military/ ... .htm  There would be "aces" there. And high ones at that. And the sounds from the sky could be those airplanes, very easily. Military jets make LOTS of noise. I like Liberty Place---I take it it's gone now? What is there now? I think this casquemay be a lost cause, due to Katrina's damage.  has anyone done any digging in NO? c JAX Brewery is in big bright red neon letters (photo earlier in this thread) Ace/King/Queen/Jack (Jax)  (near ace)  "Is high"  sixty feet in the air.

Come on guys, JAX brewery, I'm sorry, but what ever happened to Highway 1?  Running north but first across.  that sounded concrete to me.

Trohn wrote:: [JAX Brewery is in big bright red neon letters (photo earlier in this thread) Ace/King/Queen/Jack (Jax)  (near ace)  "Is high"  sixty feet in the air. Oh...that explains it...I didn't see that photo. MAkes perfect sense. c

I find it hard to believe that "ace" refers to the number 1. I think it much more likely to be a clever reference to Jax if this V points to New Orleans. Consider what BP's thought process might have been: "Hmm. I buried the casque near Jax Brewery. How can I hint at that in a riddle in such a way that (a) they won't get it instantly and (b) afterwards, everyone will say 'good clue!'? I can't say 'A card near the queen is overhead' because that would be too obvious. 'Near queen is overhead' is better, but still too easy because someone could think 'near queen... a jack is near a queen... where can a jack be found overhead?' and any New Orleanian would get that instantly. No, how about 'Near ace is high'? A jack is sorta near an ace, but not near enough that everyone would get it in the first 5 minutes.'

Oh, JAX brewery is in New Orleans?  I thought that it was in San Franisco.  My bad. But don't you think BP would have taken into account that the brewery could go out of business? New Orleans, that would explain the object of Twain's attention. Then what V goes with SF? Verse 3 isn't Boston I don't think, because there is no P for Boston. AHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:(

regulus wrote:: Oh, JAX brewery is in New Orleans?  I thought that it was in San Franisco.  My bad. But don't you think BP would have taken into account that the brewery could go out of business? New Orleans, that would explain the object of Twain's attention. The brewery has been out of business for a long time. The sign (and building) are a monument/institution. There are shops there now. Similar to Liberty Place.... No longer there, shops and hotels. It is called Canal Place today.

regulus wrote:: Verse 3 isn't Boston I don't think, because there is no P for Boston. AHHHHHHHHHHHHRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! >:( >:( >:( arrrrrgh !! not this again....no, i cant take it If not Beantown....than what? My bet is: give it time and a P WILL be correctly connected to the Boston V.

We've already given it a quarter of a century, fox - time's up!

regulus wrote:: Oh, JAX brewery is in New Orleans?  I thought that it was in San Franisco.  My bad. But don't you think BP would have taken into account that the brewery could go out of business? New Orleans, that would explain the object of Twain's attention. More likely the object of Twain's attention would be the Mississippi River or the Riverboats that use it. And as for the brewery going out of business, it's not likely this hunt was supposed to continue as long as it did--so no, I don't think he took that into account at all. Just like he probably never thought about what might happen in the event of a national emergency like Katrina. I went through the entire thread here, and did not see the Jax sign photo, BTW. Has anyone dug in Armstrong Park? c

The Jax Brewery went out of business before The Secret was published. But the Jax Brewery building is a well-known landmark in New Orleans, catty-corner from Jackson Square in the heart of the city. The sign is very prominent and lit at night: I don't think anyone has dug in Armstrong Park - we dont' know where to dig.

Fox- I will post this here ... as an answer..but feel free to link and move if necessary... I tend to think that verse three is also Boston and I want to lnk it with pandora and the globes.... Now.. for the new piece to get into your head... "feel at home" hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dirty_Water actually fits in nicely with "face the water".

forest_blight wrote:: We've already given it a quarter of a century, fox - time's up! if that is the case, then I guess 10 of the 12 original casques no longer exist either...time to hang it up just goofing w/ ya here FB. I agree with you Trohn (oooh, did I actually say that ) and also tentatively have pandora's box/globes P linked to Boston.  Why..?..you ask.  I am not sure hehehe.

Some days it's all I can do to stay awake; researching moves too slowly.  But I did find this: The verse says: Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention I looked up things that might be considered to have "Twain's attention." I found that he had written a book for his first wife about Joan d'Arc. As you probably know, Ms. d'Arc was also known as the "Maid of Orleans" and a statue of her stands at the edge of the French Quarter near Audubon Park. A rather famous statue. I can't find much else that shows me what the "giant pole" might be, but the "Giant Step" could be a Rampart--or as it's now designated, Rampart Street. Someone who lives there---is there soemthing in this area that might fit the bill? Giant pole Alternative ideas for "pole": Magnetic pole , (Magneto?); cane (sugar cane--Audubon Park was once a large sugar-cane producing plantation); stick (may be a reference to the "big red stick"--Baton Rouge?); method of propulsion : raft pole/barge pole; pole building; poule (Fr. for hen--is there a large chicken nearby?; shaft; position on a racetrack; maypole; and one that has been discussed before: a mast. In fact, that could also account for the 'step'--in a giant mast, there would certainly be a giant step. I'm sure there are others. Giant step Levee, sure--but rampart too. or seat of a mast. Sailing ship or tall ship nearby in 1981? ck

where it is and what it looks like today. hxxp://darwinbondgraham.blogspot.com/20 ... place.html I wish I can say that it was here (on this spot) in 1981, but I can not. "General Riverfront Reconstruction" When Ernest Morial became the first black mayor of the city in 1981, he attempted to remove the monument, but was stopped from doing so by the majority white City Council, which forbade the moving of any monuments without its consent. (Does the Council therefore merit an award for fending off the forces of censorship?) The Council did, however, authorize the removal of any offensive wording on the monument (so maybe it doesn't deserve an award after all). Smooth granite slabs were then placed over the 1934 additions, presumably obviating the need for the plaque's renunciatory sentiments. During the late 1980s the administration of a second black mayor, Sidney Barthelemy, tried to remove the monument permanently from view during the course of general riverfront reconstruction, when it had been taken down from its Canal Street location. However, an interesting alliance of traditionalists, historical preservationists, and white supremacists successfully blocked the effort. Nevertheless, the monument was ultimately moved from its original spot to a decidedly more obscure setting about a block away, where it now languishes out of the sight of most of the tourists who crowd Canal Street and its fine shops, casinos, municipal aquarium, and vistas of the Mississippi. It remains in the area at all only because of a consent agreement between the City and the State Historic Preservation Officer, based on federal historic preservation laws, that the monument remain in the general vicinity of the battle. So, if we have any belief that this is where we are lead to, the casque was gone potentially way before Katrina. Yet another source... Of course if that were truly the case, current debates about memorials would not be so acrimonious. Take the case of the New Orleans Liberty Monument, which in 1993 was finally removed from its place on busy Canal Street to a more obscure location. Erected in 1891, the Liberty Monument commemorates the so-called Battle of Liberty Place—an 1874 skirmish between members of the racist White League and an alliance of Republican whites and newly enfranchised African Americans. While the monument included the names of the anti-Reconstruction White Leaguers, it did not until recently include the names of the mostly black militia members who died fighting them. Over the years, various plaques were added to the imposing obelisk alternately affirming or attempting to neutralize the monument's original message. When the whole structure was temporarily removed in 1989, ostensibly to allow for street repairs, preservationists and civil rights activists engaged in opposing rallies. "Take that sucker out in the Atlantic Ocean and dump it," demanded a civil rights activist who believed a monument to white supremacy had no place in a city with a majority African-American population. In response to such sentiments Richard Bell, president of the Louisiana Historical Society, told the Christian Science Monitor that "You can't go around destroying statues and monuments because of the political atmosphere of the day. Where would it end?" and finnally... a photo of the Riverfront reconstruction - circa 1995 hxxp://www.tulane.edu/~rivgate/notes_ap ... arger.html a beautiful shot of the area when the casque was finding a home... hxxp://www.tulane.edu/~rivgate/notes_ap ... arger.html You can clearly see in this aieral of the Liberty Monument, that "one giant step" from the base of the monument, leads to one spot. (without confusion) nothing confirmed/nothing proven/nothing.

I just wanted to tie up any loose ends with this verse so I can let it rest. hxxp://goneworleans.about.com/od/tours/a/Rollin.htm I have attached a 'modern-day' walking tour of the river front from Jackson Square towards the Convention Center. (if this jounalist writes this, it is then apparently a natural flow) Anyway, the loose ends... "Near ace is high"  near ace --> Jack --> JAX. Also, "Sounds from the sky" are also going to be near the JAX. Along the river, this section is referred to as Artillery Park. This isn't new, but I wanted to definitivly, say that 'sounds from the sky' equals 'artillery'. "running north but first across in jewel's direction" meaning the jewel is not in Artillery Park (or Jackson Square) but to follow the river to finish the verse. Liberty Place (Canal Place) is located before the Riverwalk Mall so the verse shouldn't take you more than fifteen minutes (at a walking pace) As far as the visual clues regarding Image Seven, besides the general logitude/ latitude, crecent, moon, preservation - I think the specifics of the jester arm, the brown/purple checks, the clock, the dragon head - are gone.  I assume that they were at the (1) old ferry dock and (2) the warehouse building across the street. That's all I got with this.  In the off chance that the spot that the Liberty Monument used to stand was not dug up, I think it was subsequently paved over by street improvements If someone in New Orleans wants to confirm/deny/pursue/refute - my all means run with it.

So in a nutshell, you're saying that yes, the casque was in NO, and no, it will never be found because of changes that the city made both prior to and after Katrina. Well, I suppose I can live with that. Unfortunate, though. But.... Though many of the markers do, I believe, point to New Orleans, there are a few things we haven't addressed, and that I didn't see addressed thoroughly in the P7 thread. First is that jockey that is on the clock face. It's not a harlequin--it's a jockey. Distinctive cap. Distinctive silks..shirt and pantaloons. The other thing I didn't see addressed at all was the clock hand. Those are letters on that thing. There's a J and a G and others--I don't have my book yet (just shipped today--expect it in a few days) so I can't be certain what I'm seeing even on the high-res scans, but they certainly look like other letters. And what about the 19? We got the 29 and the 90--but what about the 19? No one managed to tie in 1929  with anything. And the odd lump under the checkered background on the right--the one with the horse head (or whatever it is.) And the hairy arm that is coming out of that sleeve--does not look like a human hand. It looks like a monkey paw or monkey hand. The arm is covered in fine hairs--those ARE visible on the scan--and the nails are horribly ragged. I thought about this--there were a couple of things it suggested to me. First was the short story, The Monkey's Paw--but that was set in England. Yet--it did involve a sea captain, supernatural things, three wishes. And a zombie. Voodoo. I looked up Marie Laveau--and discovered something called the poto mitan, a pole--(giant pole?) used in voudoun rites. Armstrong Park was one of Laveau's hangouts, supposedly; there is also a place by one of her graves (I think there are 3 of these) that is visited by people every year to make wishes. Not to keep pushing Armstrong Park, but the "object of Twain's attention" might just be that odd little bridge that looks like a steamboat wheel. Where does the water go that the bridge crosses? I don't doubt there have been a lot of changes in NO. Of all the cities where a casque might have been hidden, this one is probable the least likely to still be there. But you never know... c

shecrab wrote:: So in a nutshell, you're saying that yes, the casque was in NO, and no, it will never be found because of changes that the city made both prior to and after Katrina. Well, I suppose I can live with that. Unfortunate, though. I can live with this solve, but I do not think it answers all of the questions. (although it is solid logic) I am moving on from it, but do not discourage anyone from finding their own path.

CK- keep the Secret in its historical perspective... the location around the foot of Canal street has become indistinguishable since 1981 its main feature: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harrah%27s_New_Orleans was opened in 1999. I do not know (in detail) what was the view in 1981, but this type of construction starts from the basement up.

Does the riverwalk have a jogging trail?  ("running north")

shecrab wrote:: So in a nutshell, you're saying that yes, the casque was in NO, and no, it will never be found because of changes that the city made both prior to and after Katrina. shecrab wrote:: Though many of the markers do, I believe, point to New Orleans, there are a few things we haven't addressed, and that I didn't see addressed thoroughly in the P7 thread. First is that jockey that is on the clock face. It's not a harlequin--it's a jockey. Distinctive cap. Distinctive silks..shirt and pantaloons. The other thing I didn't see addressed at all was the clock hand. Those are letters on that thing. There's a J and a G and others--I don't have my book yet (just shipped today--expect it in a few days) so I can't be certain what I'm seeing even on the high-res scans, but they certainly look like other letters. And what about the 19? We got the 29 and the 90--but what about the 19? No one managed to tie in 1929  with anything. shecrab wrote:: And the odd lump under the checkered background on the right--the one with the horse head (or whatever it is.) And the hairy arm that is coming out of that sleeve--does not look like a human hand. It looks like a monkey paw or monkey hand. The arm is covered in fine hairs--those ARE visible on the scan--and the nails are horribly ragged. I thought about this--there were a couple of things it suggested to me. First was the short story, The Monkey's Paw--but that was set in England. Yet--it did involve a sea captain, supernatural things, three wishes. And a zombie. Voodoo. I looked up Marie Laveau--and discovered something called the poto mitan, a pole--(giant pole?) used in voudoun rites. Armstrong Park was one of Laveau's hangouts, supposedly; there is also a place by one of her graves (I think there are 3 of these) that is visited by people every year to make wishes. Not to keep pushing Armstrong Park, but the "object of Twain's attention" might just be that odd little bridge that looks like a steamboat wheel. Where does the water go that the bridge crosses? Possible, but I think this verse more likely belongs to San Francisco. The clock hand may not be letters. It could represent a bicycle, or maybe wrought-iron work like a weathervane. The 19 is easily explained as a backwards "91" for longitude. The artist pulled reversals in a couple of other pictures as well, so it is not as unreasonable as it sounds. The hairy arm is almost certainly a loups garoux, fair folk from France. One is pictured on p. 13, and is one of the reasons this is the French picture.

Ooooh....see? I need the book! Loups Garoux, eh?  Well, that puts a tad different spin on it. That also makes the likelihood of that animal head being a wolf instead of a horse/dog/coyote/whatever. It looked more like a wolf to me anyway. But...the clock hand...and the jockey--could it be JACQUES? Though I see more markers for NO in the image--are you saying that you think the verse is for SF but the picture for NO? Forgive my stupidity here--I only just started this hunt and all you have been doing it for a while. You all know each other's shorthand better than I. c

I believe that is exactly what FB is saying.  Many believe (but nothing is concrete until the casque is found) that this V is paired with SF while the P seems most definitely to be pointing to N.O.

Indeed, fox. shecrab - I highly recommend reading the entire forum from oldest to most recent topic, taking notes as you go. Many, many ideas have been floated, hashed out, and discarded, and there is no point in reinventing wheels. It may take you a few days, but it will be worth it. We've got more at the Secret wiki, mainly summary information, like this: hxxp://thesecret.pbwiki.com/4_solution

forest_blight wrote:: Indeed, fox. shecrab - I highly recommend reading the entire forum from oldest to most recent topic, taking notes as you go. Many, many ideas have been floated, hashed out, and discarded, and there is no point in reinventing wheels. It may take you a few days, but it will be worth it. We've got more at the Secret wiki, mainly summary information, like this: hxxp://thesecret.pbwiki.com/4_solution Already did, FB--took me several days, in fact....that doesn't mean that I can't re-think some of these things, I hope.  I've been to the secret wiki also. I realize that I'm coming into this late, but that shouldn't make my contributions any less thoughtful, should it?  As you may know (or maybe not,) when you read old posts, and click on old links, many times they are no longer there--just like the casques may not be there. So many of the posts where it says "look at this" and provides a link or photo are pretty useless to me. I didn't find the JAX brewery picture, for instance; and the rest of the older links--some over two years old--or pictures that were hosted or posted, just don't show up anymore. I don't want to waste your time, so maybe until I catch up you might not want to read my posts. Or perhaps the secret wiki could be updated. AND a current link to it posted somewhere easier to find. As well as information about how to get the scans downloaded, since there is none out there--it took me a while to figure out to change the file name to .zip before I was able to get them working. c

shecrab, please dont get the wrong idea.  I am with you when you state that you " realize that I'm coming into this late, but that shouldn't make my contributions any less thoughtful, should it?"  I, along with everyone else here, have always said that maybe what is needed around here is a new set of eyes and a fresh perspective.  Like I said before, nothing is concrete until a casque is found.  Feel free to keep working your angle and maybe one day you can tell us oldtimers "where" the next casque to be found is.  No ideas are far fetched....well, , except for maybe the oval, paddock & gates...   ;)

Thank you Fox! I appreciate that. And I'll try not to rework old rejected ideas. c

the 64 thousand dollar question is this:  Are those old rejected ideas wrong?  Answer that and you will be so far ahead of the pack.

fox wrote:: No ideas are far fetched....well, , except for maybe the oval, paddock & gates...   ;) ideas are like grass.... manure makes them flourish.

shecrab wrote:: Thank you Fox! I appreciate that. And I'll try not to rework old rejected ideas. c I will bet you that the actual locations have been brought up here at some time or another. Most have simply been dismissed or given up on.  The key to finding the locations is to keep hashing it out here til' it sticks, until someone finds that Eureka moment and says "How did I miss that".  Yet, some ideas seem too silly to consider, but hey, you never know until YOU KNOW!  Try not to get insulted.  If you find a location, everybody here will kiss your butt in Macy's window! (The MACY's in NY I hope)

CK- also keep in mind, that Byron was trying to best describe (literally and visually) the choosen casque locations. He was not attempting to be exclsuive with his clues, so it is possible that the 'proper' combinations or verses and images could lead to numerous viable locations.  (Known as a 'false positive') The only true sense of knowing that you are correct is digging it up. (and the only sense of knowing if you are wrong) As with everyone, we all wish everyone luck and 'becareful what you wish for'  This can become obsessive.  (but always worth it)

Trohn wrote:: ideas are like grass.... manure makes them flourish. BRILLIANT! love it Trohn....still not sold on the whole mint julip thingy  hehehe. Let's get as much as we can while it's free.....

regulus wrote:: By the way the object of Twain's attention is,  either a Huckelberry tree (i might be dumb ) or  A WHITE PICKET FENCE!!!!!!!!!!!!!  Tom Sawyer. any thoughts? FYI, huckleberries do not grow on trees.  They grow on bushes or shrubs, usually only 1-3 feet high.  Some highbush blueberry species grow taller but still could not be considered trees.

If verse7 goes with S.F. then we have to look at #2, 6 or V9 for this one.  The key, I think is the water line above. Above water, below the water.  Maybe First Chapter .

Noted on the tweleve/secret wiki.... a concrete and definitive use of the phrasing "Twains attention" hxxp://www.boatsafe.com/nauticalknowhow/marktwain.htm At this point in the walk along the Mississippi, you are (back in 1981) at Canal Street with the Ferry Docks (to your left) and the Paddleboat crew checking the river depths and Liberty Place and its Obelisk to your right. Too bad there is no chance it is still there. Score card:  Two found, One lost, Nine to go (with one extremely likely twenty feet inside a National Park)

Proximity of Liberty Place to the Docks...  photo is likely from the late 1960's....

This verse is associated with picture 1 by the sillouette of JFK The lines of the verse indicate a journey from the main entrance of GGpark along JFK drive.. the only question left is where teh journey ends .... Maltedfalcon

maltedfalcon wrote:: This verse is associated with picture 1 by the sillouette of JFK The lines of the verse indicate a journey from the main entrance of GGpark along JFK drive.. the only question left is where teh journey ends .... Maltedfalcon Can you help with this interpretation??

I would be  happy to, but do you mean interpretation of my association of the kennedy  pix and verse 7 or picture /verse association in general...

maltedfalcon wrote:: I would be  happy to, but do you mean interpretation of my association of the kennedy  pix and verse 7 or picture /verse association in general... using the verse with ggp and kenedy blvd. I have posted my full interpretation of verse seven with New Orleans...  It is a mile and a quarter walk along the Mississippi.  It ends at the Canal Street Docks where the riverboats come in (thus the Twain's attention - depth of a river) I am interested in seeing this used elsewhere.

Sure no problem Basically Picture 1 has the clues that point to San Francisco - The map of the Coit tower area is one I did not know about so thats really cool. But besides that there is the image in the dress that corresponds to Golden Gate Park in reverse - Then to the left of that is  a silouette of JFK facing up.. near that is a rose  above that area is a strange shape  that corresponds to part of a lake in GG park (or at least it did the lake shape has been modified several times in the last 10 years. Of course there is the GH in the Ghirardelli script that sits right on the Great Highway when the map is overlaid on the Dress. There is also the numbers refernced by the shapes Near the GH 3441 or 1443 depending on the orientation  those bracket golden gate park on the great highway. on to the verse... First go to the Front entrance of Golden Gate Park. (Notice the Chicago verse and the cleveland verse both started at the entrance to the parks) At stone wall's door                  - Directly to your right is Mclaren Lodge - a building whose walls are made of large stones. This is the entrance and offices of the park The air smells sweet                  - moving down the road the next buiding you come to is the San Francisco Conservatory of Flowers. Not far away                            - turn and look behind you High posts are three                  -  Sutro tower domininates the hill overlooking the park Sutro tower has 3 large spires. Education and Justice              - on the hill just below sutro tower is San Francisco University and Law School For all to see                          - Quite visible above the park Sounds from the sky                - any time above the park in San Francisco the air is filled with crying seagulls. - or this could possibly refer to the sounds from Ace is high ( which crosses above you over a bridge and is constantly roaring with traffic) Near ace is high                      -- Highway 1 Running north, but first across  -- It runs north across the park, but just before you get to highway 1, you pass a large cross (prayerbook cross) In jewel's direction                    - an compass direction Is an object                            - this is a problem - San Francisco is full of places associated with Mark Twain. Pick a direction there is something there.... Of Twain's attention                  - although Twain mentioned specifically the Cathedral in Milan Italy as demanding his full attention. Giant pole                                - In 1981 the next land mark down the road would have been a 30' tall totem pole called Goddess of the Forest. Giant step                                - did this mean a giant step away from the pole? or is there a Giant step yet to be uncovered? To the place The casque is kept.                  Is this the correct pole? maybe -but all the other pictures contained an image of something near the casque location and try as I might I cannot

Continued--- of the goddess of the Forest in image 1 But - The road you travel along from McClaren Lodge through the park  is John F Kennedy Blvd. (corresponding with the image in picture 1.) The verse has to resolve down to the square foot where the casque was buried. Not knowing what the direction of Twains Attention was - I just dug up the entire perimeter around the base of the Goddess of the Forest ( the totem pole is gone) but the base still exists. from 0 feet out to 6 feet in every direction - I found nothing--- except exactly 1 pace out from the base to the North-  an irrigation pipe had been laid in a trench - right through the 3 foot level. The trencher would have decimated the casque if it was there-  the Park Services people told me the pipe had been placed in the last 10 years. While I am sure Verse 7 Is San Francisco and goes with picture 1 - I am hoping there is another resolution for the final lines -as there is no image that looks like the Goddess of the Forest in pix 1 Oh the rose garden in Golden gate Park is located just before highway 1 on JFK and the lake that corresponds to that wierd blue shape is also on JFK but actually past the totem pole... So the search continues... I've read you analysis of Verse 7 - I dont think it fits as well as mine - but - until there is a casque - your guess is as good as mine.  - Best of Luck in the hunt! Matt Sparks Maltedfalcon

maltedfalcon wrote:: In jewel's direction                    - an compass direction Is an object                            - this is a problem - San Francisco is full of places associated with Mark Twain. Pick a direction there is something there.... Of Twain's attention                  - although Twain mentioned specifically the Cathedral in Milan Italy as demanding his full attention. falcoln, When I read this verse these three lines seem to go together, meaning (as you said) in a certain direction is some object of Twain's attention.  In the picture the jewel is in a northerly direction in relation to the map of the park.  So if you can find objects of Twain's attention in any direction I would go with the one to the north. BTW, I will probably be in the states this summer and not having anything better to do I am probably going to visit as many of the potential casque sites as I can so if you haven't found it by them I would be happy to help you look. digger7 I just realized that north in the pic may or may not match up to north in GGP, so what I am saying is IN JEWEL'S DIRECTION means to move toward whatever end of the park is represented by the jewel being above the top short edge of the map in the pic.  It's all pefectly clear in my head as to what I mean so if you guys could just read my thoughts instead of my words this would be a lot easier.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Continued--- So the search continues... I've read you analysis of Verse 7 - I dont think it fits as well as mine - but - until there is a casque - your guess is as good as mine.  - Best of Luck in the hunt! Matt Sparks Maltedfalcon Thanks Mark. We will agree to disagree. I do not find your landmarks as dictated by the verse to be as specific to the location as what this treasure hunt needs. I do agree that the image points to GGP. Have you thought about the White House close by, being the conservatory?

[quote author=digger7 link=topic=1094.msg61348#msg61348 date=1179812309 I just realized that north in the pic may or may not match up to north in GGP, so what I am saying is IN JEWEL'S DIRECTION means to move toward whatever end of the park is represented by the jewel being above the top short edge of the map in the pic.  It's all pefectly clear in my head as to what I mean so if you guys could just read my thoughts instead of my words this would be a lot easier. [/quote] I know exactly what you mean - you mean west by the way. and I tried that too. As a matter of fact in San Francisco alone I found 14 objects of Twain's attention.  Add to that The Mississsippi /Missouri References, and the Hawaii references. - there is a an object of twains attention in just about 360 degrees... I tried them all...

Trohn wrote:: Thanks Mark.  --> its Matt... We will agree to disagree.  -Totally Understand what you mean - until the casque is found who knows I do not find your landmarks as dictated by the verse to be as specific to the location as what this treasure hunt needs.  -------      I don't know  - one pace north of the goddess of the Forsest is pretty specific.... I do agree that the image points to GGP.  well at least SF - that coit tower map is very intriguing.... Have you thought about the White House close by, being the conservatory?  Oh yes I have tried many verses -(been working on this since 1982)  none fit as well. I wish you would find it in NO with any verse - even verse 7 - that will only help me here....

I would love to find it in New Orleans, but the area has been completely renovated. It is behind where the Casino is now. I have been at a loss at tying in the SF area to a verse but I am still at it. Can you tell me why GGP in the image is represented by a tiled serpent?

That is a dragon - tying in with the chinese theme. Note the sinuous form of the dragon follows the major roads through the park and the area between the wing and back exactly circles the polo field in the park. and If you flip the map 180 The cross-over arms sit riight on top of highway 1  -which amazingly enough as it goes through the park is called wait for it..... Cross over drive.....  (which also ties right back into  -- first across.... Matt Sparks

Trohn wrote:: I would love to find it in New Orleans, but the area has been completely renovated. You know - basically if Verse 7 goes with Pix 1 - then there is a very good chance that the location of the NO casque still exists and is accessible - just find the right verse....

"Near ace is high" I do not believe that this can refer to highway one. A high ace would be an eleven. Near a high ace would be a Jack/Queen/King. "The air smells sweet" Why is air mentioned here?  The flowers in GGP could be literally everywhere.  Air here is a clue. Also, "At stone wall's door, the air smells sweet" These two lines describe ONE specific starting spot. You do move anywhere, yet, but properly orient yourself for the rest of the verse.

"Not far away High posts are three" hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_Sq ... _Louisiana hxxp://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp/bo ... utro_Tower I wonder which one BP was looking at??

the old guy take on that was a military ace, like the home of the blue angels or thunderbirds. my interjection for the month!

Trohn wrote:: "Near ace is high" I do not believe that this can refer to highway one. A high ace would be an eleven. Near a high ace would be a Jack/Queen/King. "The air smells sweet" Why is air mentioned here?  The flowers in GGP could be literally everywhere.  Air here is a clue. Also, "At stone wall's door, the air smells sweet" These two lines describe ONE specific starting spot. You do move anywhere, yet, but properly orient yourself for the rest of the verse. Ace is High as in HIGHway 1 McLaren lodge and the SF conservatory of flowers lie in sight of each other at the entrance to Golden gate park also from this point is a fine view of sutro tower and SF University all four viewable from one point - the start of JFK drive...

maltedfalcon - Thank you for compiling your theory like that - it is very compelling, and that's the most positive I've ever been about the GGP theory. But I still think some of your interpretations are tenuous. As Trohn mentioned (there I go agreeing with Trohn again! Must stop that...), Near ace is high does not shout "Hwy 1" to me. It doesn't shout 11 either (but then I'm no card player). Simply put, it's likely either a poker reference (aces high?) or a reference to an airplane or pilot (what kind of ace is high? duh, a flying ace!). Using the rectangular pattern as a clue for GGP is also very tenuous, IMHO. There are rectangles everywhere . Why must the rectangle in P1 represent GGP? It's the wrong dimensions, it's vertical rather than horizontal, her crossing hands are definitely not in the same position that Crossover Drive is in the park... Why not use Coit Tower as a more logical starting point, since JJP saw fit to cleverly hide a map of that specific part of the city in the scale pattern? There were some nicely reasoned observations offered during Voltaire's trip to SF, including what is visible in the paintings (and from the windows) of Coit Tower itself, the meaning of the 1443, etc. Also, The air smells sweet , paired with the "Gh" in the image, surely point to Ghirardelli Square. That seems less of a leap to me than flowers, which are everywhere (and thus could be read to support any location) but only at certain times of the year. To return to an earlier point, specifically what card games involve "aces high"?

Hwy. 1 is also high (up in the air) where it crosses JFK.

and standing under highway 1 there is plenty of noise from the sky...

forest_blight wrote:: But I still think some of your interpretations are tenuous. Using the rectangular pattern as a clue for GGP is also very tenuous, IMHO. There are rectangles everywhere . Why must the rectangle in P1 represent GGP? It's the wrong dimensions, Why not use Coit Tower as a more logical starting point, since JJP saw fit to cleverly hide a map of that specific part of the city in the scale pattern? There were some nicely reasoned observations offered during Voltaire's trip to SF, including what is visible in the paintings (and from the windows) of Coit Tower itself, the meaning of the 1443, etc. Im not clear why you think the dimensions are wrong as if you take the park map (available at stands in the park,) and superimpose it on the dress it lines up perfectly and the Gh sits right on the Great Highway--- (although you need to mirror the dress to make it legible)  the dragon lines up with several features of the park perfectly 1443 great highway is only 2 blocks south of ggpark  although - I was curious why it wouldnt be 3441  ( as the dress is backwards.) He also included a map of fort point and the golden gate bridge (why not start there?) because in the solved puzzles, the picture takes you to the general location and the verse takes you to the casque Why not start the Chicago hunt at the water tower?  thats actually no where near grant park. why not start the Cleveland hunt at the terminal tower? Thats two towers in the right cities that were red herrings.... So you want to start at coit tower? So far on the pictures the park clues have been accurate i.e the picture of the fountain and statue at grant park in chicago The picture of the fountain and wall in the cultural park at cleveland. The picture gets you to the city/general area. the verse brings you home. and to me the jax reference is a much further reach than highway 1 (around here an ace is number 1)  HIGHway Ace works fine for me. I dont see much of a stretch at all. Maltedfalcon

Does no one else see a similarity between the park map's tree background and the pattern behind the dragon? hxxp://cobb.cobbcrew.org/GoldenGate/Gol ... mage7.html

Hi guys, fairly new but been looking at the book off and on for a couple of months now (takes that long the read the forum, lol). I wanted to through a small twist. What if "At stone wall's door the air smells sweet" is actually a wall the casque is buried near? Instead of the entrance to the park and the rest walks you to that wall? Is there a wall with 3 high posts nearby? "Sounds from the sky" could possibly be the music concourse area so we should be close enough to here music if it were playing? Just throwing some thoughts out. I am trying to make a trip up to SF to spend a day or 2 this summer just looking around and taking more pictures.

jwhelms wrote:: Hi guys, fairly new but been looking at the book off and on for a couple of months now (takes that long the read the forum, lol). I wanted to through a small twist. What if "At stone wall's door the air smells sweet" is actually a wall the casque is buried near? Instead of the entrance to the park and the rest walks you to that wall? Is there a wall with 3 high posts nearby? "Sounds from the sky" could possibly be the music concourse area so we should be close enough to here music if it were playing? Just throwing some thoughts out. I am trying to make a trip up to SF to spend a day or 2 this summer just looking around and taking more pictures. That is totally possible- there are many walls and walls a lot of the way around the park 3 high posts sutro tower dominates the skyline in a way that is hard to describe here.  They are visible from almost every point in the park  except when eclipsed by a building or tree. Give a heads up when you are going to SF -its always lots of fun to meet up with fellow searchers.

Here are the theories turtle123456 and I have developed for Verse 7. At stone wall's door At jewel’s gate. Japanese Tea Garden main gate . The air smells sweet Cherry trees are planted along Martin Luther King Jr. Drive to west of main gate. More cherry trees planted on inside including along a path called Cherry Tree Lane . Not far away Can be seen from Garden entrance area unless fogged in. High posts are three Sutro Tower Education and Justice Education = de Young Museum to east Justice = Martin Luther King Jr. Dr ? to west For all to see Both Museum and Road can be seen from Garden main gate area. Sounds from the sky Pagoda with antenna Near ace is high Temple Gate with " A " at its top is next to pagoda with antenna. Running north, but first across Walk north while crossing the bridge. In jewel's direction Direction to find "Giant Step" from "Giant Pole". Is an object Tea Garden Drum / Moon Bridge looks like a paddlewheel of a steamboat. Of Twain's attention Mark Twain was a licensed steamboat pilot on the Mississippi River. Giant pole Stone pagoda sometimes called “ treasure house ”. Giant step One large human pace? Giant step could be a stair step? There is a large stone step and then a large flagstone on the path toward the drum bridge. To the place Location to dig. The casque is kept. “Every treasure casque is buried underground, at a depth of no more than three to three and one-half feet." Turtle broke this with Giant Pole = Stone Pagoda. But we had no idea what “Twain's attention” was. The Drum Bridge was actually one of the last clues we solved. We couldn’t believe we never noticed the bridge looks like a paddlewheel of a steamboat.

In 2006 we contacted the Japanese Tea Garden to coordinate a dig. We almost got a “yes”, but the final response was a “no”. They were concerned about damage to the roots of trees in the area. The Tea Garden is probably the most protected part of Golden Gate Park. We told the Tea Garden that there could be future requests to dig there by other hunters and asked them to call us if they ever changed their mind or decided to allow a dig by other hunters. They said that if they ever did maintenance in that area we could dig too. We put the San Francisco location on hold. In anticipation of joining with this forum we contacted the Tea Garden again last week. We proposed a different approach of using ground penetrating radar for a survey. This survey would cover the small area between the stone pagoda and the moon bridge. If we get something on a radar survey we would then dig. We should receive an answer next week. If we get permission all are welcome to join us. Permission or not, we will let you know the Tea Garden’s answer.

Sonoran wrote:: At stone wall's door At jewel’s gate. Japanese Tea Garden main gate . Sonoran wrote:: Education and Justice Education = de Young Museum to east Justice = Martin Luther King Jr. Dr to west Sonoran wrote:: Sounds from the sky Pagoda with antenna Sonoran wrote:: Near ace is high Temple Gate with " A " at its top is next to pagoda with antenna. Welcome, and thanks for sharing. A few nitpicks : I believe this entrance is made of wood, not stone. Prior to 1983, the road now called MLK Jr. Drive was named "South Drive". hxxp://www.sfgov.org/site/recpark_page.asp?id=30236 under "Park History (pdf)". Did you confirm with Tea Garden management that this is really an antenna? I believe it is a decorative spire. I do not see the letter A in these photos. Do you mean the peaked roof resembles an A?

Unknown: Prior to 1983, the road now called MLK Jr. Drive was named "South Drive". The profile looks more like Lincoln to me than JFK, which is convenient considering there is a street called Lincoln Way forming the southern border of the park.

jimerson wrote:: I believe this entrance is made of wood, not stone. jimerson wrote:: Prior to 1983, the road now called MLK Jr. Drive was named "South Drive". hxxp://www.sfgov.org/site/recpark_page.asp?id=30236 under "Park History (pdf)". jimerson wrote:: Did you confirm with Tea Garden management that this is really an antenna? I believe it is a decorative spire. jimerson wrote:: I do not see the letter A in these photos. Do you mean the peaked roof resembles an A? Hi jimerson . Thank you for the welcome. And thanks for testing our theories too. You brought up good points. Your right. That entrance is all wood and probably has no stone construction, including the fences that extend both directions from the gate. I think this is a play on words. "At stone wall's door" is the place you stand to experience the next seven lines of the verse, the main entrance. To get to the Tea Garden main entrance if "stone" = jewel, "wall's" = the Tea Garden wall, and "door" = entrance, then we are standing at the entrance to the wall that leads to the jewel. At stone wall's door= At jewel's Garden wall entrance. Nice find! "Education" always seemed like an obvious match for the de Young Museum. But, "Justice" never seemed to be a perfect match to MLK Dr., but it was my first choice of my known theories. Thanks for catching that one. I agree. The pagoda antenna is not really an antenna. These antennas or finials are Buddhism symbols found on Japanese pagodas. My theory is BP knew that the antenna was not a real one and used some latitude because it looks like an antenna. He used that latitude again in this verse when he refered to the Drum Bridge as a paddlewheel. Some lighting seems to bring out the "A" more, interestingly it jumps out the most in black and white photos. The letter A is formed by the red and gold decorative work under the overhang.

we should use those moving webcams to find the casque in GGP!  those would prove helpful!  Thanks Sonoran! -regulus

ONE STEP AWAY,  BASE OF THE TREASURE POLE, GIANT STEP REFERRING TO THE MOON, ONE SMALL STEP FOR MAN ONE "GIANT STEP" FOR MANKIND AS MENTIONED BY FOX.  MOON GARDENS.

The quote is, "This is one small step for a man, one giant leap for mankind." No giant step in there.

True...and V11 says "By dauntless and inconquerable determination" - not exactly the wording of the Wright Memorial but too close for coincidence?

Touché, fox!

& I quote "Achieved by dauntless resolution and unconquerable faith"

Hey all, This post covers multiple verses (1, 3, 7, 12) and multiple pictures (5, 6, 7, 8 ).  There doesn't seem to be just one thread that was appropriate for this kind of post so I just posted it in all 8 threads.  So if you have read this post once you don't have to read the other 7 as they are all the same. Socrates, Pindar, Apelles Free speech, couplet, birch To find casque’s destination (Verse 4) (Lines 10, 11, 12) The word birch rhymes with verse so I think the line is supposed to read FREE VERSE, COUPLET.  Now separate the initial letters of each couplet that rhymes from the initial letters of the free verse(i.e. the lines that don’t rhyme).  You can do this for all the verses(although some of them are all free verse with no lines that rhyme), however, for reasons that I will make clear below I think the only verses that matter here are Verses 1, 3, 7, and 12.  In all the verses below I have highlighted the lines that rhyme. I will start with Verse 12 as we already know the answer for that one. Where M and B are set in stone And to Congress, R is known L sits and left Beyond his shoulder Is the Fair Folks’ Treasure holder The end of ten by thirteen Is your clue Fence and fixture Central too For finding jewel casque Seek the sounds Of rumble Brush and music Hush. So you end up with: WABTICBH which when you rearrange the letters and use the B’s as blank spaces between the words you get: CHI B WA B T or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the B’s - Chicago Water Tower.  As we all know this is the tower in Picture 5.  This also explains the use of the word Hush in the verse, BP needed a word that started with H and rhymed with Brush. On to Verse 1 Fortress north Cold as glass Friendship south Take your task To the number Nine eight two Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Looking back from treasure ground There’s the spout! A whistle sounds. So you end up with: NISPOILA which when you rearrange the letters and use the I’s as blank spaces between the words you get: NO I S I PLA or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the I’s – New Orleans Spanish Plaza.  And there is a Spanish Plaza in New Orleans. On to Verse 3 If Thucydides is North of Xenophon Take five steps In the area of his direction A green tower of lights In the middle section Near those Who pass the coliseum With metal walls Face the water Your back to the stairs Feel at home All the letters Are here to see Eighteenth day Twelfth hour Lit by lamplight In truth, be free. This time use the letters that begin the free verse lines: INTANWWFYFAETL which when you rearrange the letters and use the extra WFA as blank spaces between the words you get: FT W WAYNE F LIN A T or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the WFA – Ft. Wayne Lincoln Tower.  And there is a Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne Indiana built in 1929. And finally Verse 7 At stone wall’s door The air smells sweet Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Running north, but first across In jewel’s direction Is an object Of Twain’s attention Giant Pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. I first started anagramming this one using the same method of separating the letters that I used above and ended up with some wrong answers that wilhouse pointed out.  So I think for this one you anagram all the letters together: ATNHEFSNRIIOGGTT which when you rearrange the letters and use the G’s as blank spaces between the words you get HST G NATION G FRET or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the G’s – Houston National Forest.  This one didn’t anagram to my satisfaction as you end up with an extra I but there is a Sam Houston National Forest in Houston. Now as cool as all that was this is the really cool part and the reason that I think that this particular solution only deals with the above 4 verses.  Going back to verse 4 and using the words Socrates, Pindar, Apelles, birch along with information that we already have from the pictures(i.e. the latitudes and longitudes) you can as BP put it, “wed one picture with one verse.” Birch = 5 letters, picture 5 we know is Chicago goes with verse 12 which gives us Chicago Water Tower. Apelles = 7 letters, picture 7 we are pretty sure from the longitude and latitude is New Orleans and verse 1 gives us New Orleans Spanish Plaza. Socrates = 8 letters, picture 8 we are pretty sure from the longitude and latitude is Houston and verse 7 gives us Sam Houston National Forest. (sort of) Pindar = 6 letters, by process of elimination picture 6 goes with verse 3 which gives us Ft. Wayne Lincoln Tower. So to sum up. Verse 1 goes with Picture 7 and give us a starting location of Spanish Plaza in New Orleans Verse 3 goes with Picture 6 and gives us a starting location of Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne Verse 7 goes with Picture 8 and gives us a starting location of Sam Houston National Forest in Houston. Verse 12 goes with Picture 5 and gives us a starting location of the Water Tower in Chicago. Just some further thoughts that might not lead to anything but are rattling around in my head so I will throw them out for your consideration.  Two of the verses (9 and 11) are all free verse, nothing rhymes but there are two additional verses that do follow the free verse, couplet pattern. The first comes right before the pictures and second right after the pictures.  It is possible that some information is hidden in these two extra verses. Also if you like the idea of the number of the letters in a word indicating a picture(or a verse) then you might find this interesting.  There is only on significant instance of a one letter word in all of the verses(I know that there are various A’s in the verses but I said significant) and that is the v in verse 10.  In addition there is only one 12-letter word in all of the verses, remuneration.  I know that wonderstone’s is also 12 letters but I don’t count that one because you need to add the possessive s in order to get to 12. digger7

Fortress north Cold as glass Friendship south Take your task To the number Nine eight two Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Looking back from treasure ground There’s the spout! A whistle sounds. At stone wall’s door The air smells sweet Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Running north, but first across In jewel’s direction Is an object Of Twain’s attention Giant Pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. The lines I highlighted above in red seem to me to rhyme. Is there a particular reason you left them out?

jimerson, yes, there is a reason that I left them out.  I know they sorta sound like they rhyme at first blush but read through it again and really listen to the sounds they don't really rhyme.  I thought they did at first as well but they don't.  Also, in V1 slight, delight, and night all rhyme but the verse says couplet not triplet and delight goes with night not slight. digger7

Digger, those types of rhyme are perfectly acceptable as rhyme. Jimerson is correct in stating that they are rhymes. Alike/slight, direction/attention, glass/task--are all forms of assonance, a common and well-known form of rhyme. ck

We have not heard back from the Japanese Tea Garden in Golden Gate Park. Everyone is welcome to contact the Park and arrange a dig of your own. Turtle and I have no claim to the San Francisco casque. We just want to see someone bring the casque up. This casque recovery may require patience because of its special location in the Tea Garden. I also could see value in constant interest expressed by hunters to the Park. A small roadblock we had in arranging a dig in the past was convincing the staff that there was a casque buried in the tea garden. Although, after a few phone calls we had many staff members mostly convinced. Other hunters confirming the Tea Garden location may help clear the staff’s doubts. I strongly believe that the casque is buried under the large (giant) flagstone (step) at the bottom of the path. The good thing about that spot is it is far from any trees or tree roots. Tree roots were the concern mentioned for not allowing us to dig in the stone pagoda area in the past. There may be more interest in allowing a dig from the Tea Garden if confidence in a different spot away from tree roots is expressed. Good hunting.

Here is the solution from "The Solutions" post Turtle and I developed. Verse 7 At stone wall's door             At jewel Japanese Tea Garden gate The air smells sweet             Cherry trees Not far away                         Within sight High posts are three             Sutro Tower Education and Justice             De Young Museum and Alcatraz For all to see                         Open to public. Within view. Sounds from the sky             Antenna tower building in garden Near ace is high                         Tower building is next to buiding with an "A" at the top Running north, but first across Walk north and cross bridge In jewel's direction                         Direction to find jewel location Is an object                         Drum/ Moon bridge looks like a paddlewheel Of Twain's attention             Mark Twain was a steamboat pilot on the Mississippi River Giant pole                         Stone Pagoda Giant step                         Stone step most toward ("jewel's direction") bridge To the place                         The location to dig The casque is kept.             Casque is buried

Hi all!!! This is fox's wife. He asked me to post our findings and following discussion regarding the New Orleans casque.  I would post under my own user name but I am still in the review stage. Now I know that everyone believes that this verse goes to San Francisco but......yes you knew it was coming....we, though Fox is still holding out for the other verse, now believe that this verse goes with Jackson Square.  Now let me start by saying that I did not want to get involved with this hunt. I did Treasure's Trove and got burned and so I did not want to get involved with anything else. I was, however, reluctantly pulled into researching and digging on this one. That being the case, I know that everyone here has done a ton of research and I read it this morning while waiting for our munchkin to wake up. I am only bringing a fresh perspective to this.... We all agree that image 7 is New Orleans. We feel that Jackson Square and it's layout confirm that. to see the map, google map with Jackson square, new orleans If you rotate it (the map) 90 degrees, it matches the clock face down to the arches and jewel. Also notice that the space above the arch is called the moon walk, hence the moon and stars in the P7. As for the verse... At stone wall's door -- The battleship Stonewall Jackson sunk the Veruna which was carrying Union soldiers. This occured in the Mississippi River near New Orleans. In fact the ship was stationed just south of NO; this could also be a play on words with stonewall jackson bringing you to the mississippi river at the point of Jackson square (andrew jackson) The air smells sweet --Jackson Square is at the edge of the Fresh Market, the oldest open air market in the US, which is where Cafe du Monde is and also Magnola trees are all around and smell lovely when in bloom Not far away --across Jackson Square High posts are three --the spires on the St. Louis Cathedral Education and Justice -- the Cabildo, which was once a Supreme Court, and the Presbytere which is a museum For all to see --These buildings are very prominant Sounds from the sky --perhaps the segulls? there are a ton of them here Near ace is high --NO was the first gambling city in the US. In fact, when gambling was outlawed thru the rest of LA, it continues to enjoy the prosperity brought by gambling for more than 100 years. From the moonwalk, you can see the old Jackson brewing company which has a big JAX on the side. Jack, king or queen force the ace high in blackjack to give you 21. Running north, but first across --this could pertain to the mississippi river. not necessarily the way it flows, but the route of the river. If you look, the river goes across the lower part of LA before going north In jewel's direction --I feel like this should be in () and these lines would read "Running north, but first across Is an object Of Twain's attention" with the "in jewels direction" as a kind of side note Is an object Of Twain's attention -- again the Mississippi river. He loved it and that was where he picked up his nom de plume. "Mark twain"  whiich is a Mississippi river term that means that is safe to navigate, safe depth for a steam boat, 2 fathoms Giant pole -- not sure yet Giant step --not sure yet but I assume that these will be the markers that reveal the hiding place. We are going back today to finalize this theory. To the place The casque is kept Would love it if one of you guys could post a side by side comparison. Let me know what you think.  We are headed down there now and will update you when we get back. Fox and Mrs.

Would love it if one of you guys could post a side by side comparison. Comparison between what and what?

sorry, side by side comparioson of arial of Jackson Sqaure and P7

fox wrote:: Hi all!!! This is fox's wife. He asked me to post our findings and following discussion regarding the New Orleans casque.  I would post under my own user name but I am still in the review stage. Now I know that everyone believes that this verse goes to San Francisco but......yes you knew it was coming....we, though Fox is still holding out for the other verse, now believe that this verse goes with Jackson Square.  Now let me start by saying that I did not want to get involved with this hunt. I did Treasure's Trove and got burned and so I did not want to get involved with anything else. I was, however, reluctantly pulled into researching and digging on this one. That being the case, I know that everyone here has done a ton of research and I read it this morning while waiting for our munchkin to wake up. I am only bringing a fresh perspective to this.... We all agree that image 7 is New Orleans. We feel that Jackson Square and it's layout confirm that. to see the map, google map with Jackson square, new orleans If you rotate it (the map) 90 degrees, it matches the clock face down to the arches and jewel. Also notice that the space above the arch is called the moon walk, hence the moon and stars in the P7. As for the verse... At stone wall's door -- The battleship Stonewall Jackson sunk the Veruna which was carrying Union soldiers. This occured in the Mississippi River near New Orleans. In fact the ship was stationed just south of NO; this could also be a play on words with stonewall jackson bringing you to the mississippi river at the point of Jackson square (andrew jackson) The air smells sweet --Jackson Square is at the edge of the Fresh Market, the oldest open air market in the US, which is where Cafe du Monde is and also Magnola trees are all around and smell lovely when in bloom Not far away --across Jackson Square High posts are three --the spires on the St. Louis Cathedral Education and Justice -- the Cabildo, which was once a Supreme Court, and the Presbytere which is a museum For all to see --These buildings are very prominant Sounds from the sky --perhaps the segulls? there are a ton of them here Near ace is high --NO was the first gambling city in the US. In fact, when gambling was outlawed thru the rest of LA, it continues to enjoy the prosperity brought by gambling for more than 100 years. From the moonwalk, you can see the old Jackson brewing company which has a big JAX on the side. Jack, king or queen force the ace high in blackjack to give you 21. Running north, but first across --this could pertain to the mississippi river. not necessarily the way it flows, but the route of the river. If you look, the river goes across the lower part of LA before going north In jewel's direction --I feel like this should be in () and these lines would read "Running north, but first across Is an object Of Twain's attention" with the "in jewels direction" as a kind of side note Is an object Of Twain's attention -- again the Mississippi river. He loved it and that was where he picked up his nom de plume. "Mark twain"  whiich is a Mississippi river term that means that is safe to navigate, safe depth for a steam boat, 2 fathoms Giant pole -- not sure yet Giant step --not sure yet but I assume that these will be the markers that reveal the hiding place. We are going back today to finalize this theory. To the place The casque is kept Would love it if one of you guys could post a side by side comparison. Let me know what you think.  We are headed down there now and will update you when we get back. Fox and Mrs. This is in essence my solution documented o the wiki and here a number of months ago. "Sounds from the sky"  The park at the river across the street from Jackson square is called "Artillery Park" The Moon Walk wasn't designed/named in 1981 - it was designated later. The verse has you walk along the river from Jackson Square to the Canal Street Ferry Dock (A deckhand would be concerned about the Twain (depth) when the boat was docking) Not there anymore, moved in 1986, was Liberty Place.  With the Liberty Monument (a giant obelisk)  It stood at the foot of Canal Street - along the Trolley Tracks. It was surrounded by a small park (in the middle of the street) This is the Giant Pole. Take a Giant step from the Monument towards the Ferry Dock (south) and that was where the casque was buried. (To the place the casque was kept - Liberty Place) Too bad it wasn't freed in time.

I have the area (at the time) documented with photos earlier in this (and image seven) thread.

Id be happy to believe you if anybody can suggest a different verse that matches SF and image 1 but logically if you think verse 7 leads to no longer workable solution. That should make it easier to associate another verse with image 1 or conversly if verse7 leads to a dead end using your interpretation. and given no interpretation can be called a "solution" until a casque is uncovered. logically you should then eliminate verse 7 from your idea and try to fit another verse in place. for example, my interpretation of verse 7 leads to a particular spot in GGpark, knowing that about 10 years ago a huge trencher dug a ditch through that area. I can either give up or try to fit other verses into SF. Im certainly not giving up.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Id be happy to believe you if anybody can suggest a different verse that matches SF and image 1 but logically if you think verse 7 leads to no longer workable solution. That should make it easier to associate another verse with image 1 or conversly if verse7 leads to a dead end using your interpretation. and given no interpretation can be called a "solution" until a casque is uncovered. logically you should then eliminate verse 7 from your idea and try to fit another verse in place. for example, my interpretation of verse 7 leads to a particular spot in GGpark, knowing that about 10 years ago a huge trencher dug a ditch through that area. I can either give up or try to fit other verses into SF. Im certainly not giving up. By all means, do not give up your ideas, I am just expressing my beliefs and interpretations. I have penciled in verse six to go with image one (but that is purely due to elimination) The other reason I have verse six linked to San Fransico is the first line: "Of all the romance retold"  This has been postitively and uniquely lined to "Treasure Island" by RLS. One of the two islands that hold up a section of the Bay Bridge is "Treasure Island"

Interesting I did not know of that link. but yes it is part of the dedication that RLS wrote in the book it was a poem entitled "To the hesitating purchaser" I will look at it using this verse, Still I hope you are wrong in that, I would hate to think that the NO casque is gone forever.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Interesting I did not know of that link. but yes it is part of the dedication that RLS wrote in the book it was a poem entitled "To the hesitating purchaser" I will look at it using this verse, Still I hope you are wrong in that, I would hate to think that the NO casque is gone forever. 7.Treasure Island / Stevenson, Robert Louis, 1850-1894  [New Window] ... heat and cold, If schooners, islands, and maroons, And buccaneers, and buried gold, And all the old romance, retold Exactly in the ancient way, ... hxxp://infomotions.com/etexts/gutenberg ... 20/120.htm 8.Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson. Search, Read, Study ...  [New Window] And all the old romance, retold Exactly in the ancient way, Can please, as me they pleased of old, The wiser youngsters of today: --So be it, and fall on! ... hxxp://www.online-literature.com/steven ... ureisland/

fox and Mrs?  what happened?!!! have been waiting to hear how your hunt went! it's hard for me to jump on new orleans for this verse, because i'd just started over with image 1 and was pretty convinced it was san francisco, but would love for you to find one there in new orleans!

While I was in New Orleans recently, I took in a concert at the famous Preservation Hall.  While inside, I was struck by the similarity of the grill over the door to the image, posted above by Forest, Image 7.  Take a look. I'll post it in image 7 too. wilhouse

Giant Step sure sounds like MoonWalk to me...and yes Trohn, the Moon Walk was built and named in 1976.  That would make it pretty much a brand new thing in the early 80's when BP was wandering around the states looking for somewhere to bury one of his casques. The elusive N.O. casque will have to remain elusive since we will be heading out of town bright and early tomorrow morning.  At least I can be comforted in the knowledge that; during my adventures/digging in City Park as well as my exploration of Jackson Square, I was very nearby (if not standing directly on top of) the N.O. casque. What isn't comforting is the news here has been reporting a tornado and flood watch.....weeeeeeee . Looks like another hunter will have the pleasure of unearthing this one....

been trying to research ggp and found that a stone wall was built on the ne corner of fulton ave. here's the link: 2-12 hxxp://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfiles ... istory.pdf

maltedfalcon wrote:: The verse has to resolve down to the square foot where the casque was buried. Not knowing what the direction of Twains Attention was - I just dug up the entire perimeter around the base of the Goddess of the Forest ( the totem pole is gone) but the base still exists. from 0 feet out to 6 feet in every direction - The statue was about 30 feet tall, right?  Why didn't you dig about 30 feet away from the base?  Height of giant pole = length of giant step?  Assuming the object of Twain's attention is the Pacific Ocean, that would be your direction from the statue.  It looks like that would be in a wooded area and might have been easy for BP to dig without being seen, and is likely to be undisturbed.

I have a hard time thinking of the Pacific Ocean as an "object."

niteowl9 wrote:: The statue was about 30 feet tall, right?  Why didn't you dig about 30 feet away from the base?  Height of giant pole = length of giant step? kind of , the statue of the goddess is of a woman squating on her haunches. if she were to stand she would probably be 50-60 feet tall, (she isnt exactly perfectly proportioned.) I thought of that, but have trouble with it.  The location needs to resolve to an exact spot... the other casques were located so that you could actually reach out and touch a nearby wall, digging a hole 50 feet out away from everything  would be very difficult to judge,  and in the case of chicago, even when they knew exactly where to dig, they almost missed it... There needs to be some reference nearby... guessing what her giant stride would be is too vague to work... I was thinking, I am 5'9' I took the largest step I could and added a couple feet for good measure.. Does anyone know how tall BP was? maybe I was too short and it is past the irrigation line...

maltedfalcon wrote:: kind of , the statue of the goddess is of a woman squating on her haunches. if she were to stand she would probably be 50-60 feet tall, (she isnt exactly perfectly proportioned.) I thought of that, but have trouble with it.  The location needs to resolve to an exact spot... the other casques were located so that you could actually reach out and touch a nearby wall, digging a hole 50 feet out away from everything  would be very difficult to judge,  and in the case of chicago, even when they knew exactly where to dig, they almost missed it... There needs to be some reference nearby... guessing what her giant stride would be is too vague to work... I was thinking, I am 5'9' I took the largest step I could and added a couple feet for good measure.. Does anyone know how tall BP was? maybe I was too short and it is past the irrigation line... Again, that is why I think this verse belongs to New Orleans (and Liberty Place) A giant step (stride) from the monument gets you to a patch of grass.  All around you now (when it existed) is concrete and the street.  The monument was on a stone block.  From that, you get to the grass. It was an exact description for the burial.

I have a simple way for you to convince me. In both of the found casques (Chicago and Cleveland) a picture of what you see at the location of the casque is hidden in the image. In Chicago the fixture and the window across the street are in the Chicago image.  in other words if you stood on the spot of the casque you could see the fixture and the window. In Cleavland the image of the wall behind the spot where the casque was found is right there in the image. its almost so obvious, its amazing anybody missed it... So if you Know the location of the casque (even if you cant dig it out) based on a particular verse. what is the image in the picture that you can see from that location. I suspect the thing in image 1 you could see from the location based on verse 7 is the object under the table, I believe that to be the silhouette of a police call box. They used to be located all over GG park.They were almost all removed in the 90's I cant prove it(Believe me I have tried) but I think there was one near the Goddess of the forest totem pole... Since I cant prove this I realize I just have a theory... and any theory is as good as the next without proof. So if there is something in the new orleans image that you could see from where you think verse 7 leads you.  I will believe you.

I have the verse outlined from starting point to finish (as previously posted) but only the usual New Orleans confirmers from the image.  Nothing from the POV of the casque that I can point to out of the image specifics to show you.  (And as the area has radically changed, I can only rely on the images I discover) As you said, it is only one theory. hxxp://www-sal.cs.uiuc.edu/~friedman/canal/Pic335.htm

slappybuns wrote:: been trying to research ggp and found that a stone wall was built on the ne corner of fulton ave. here's the link: 2-12 hxxp://www.sfgov.org/site/uploadedfiles ... istory.pdf I checked into this, cause it sounded good to me, but found no doors or gates in that wall at all. its just a solid wall from end to end with a corner. Which brings me to, starting over with this verse. taking the thought that the first lines of a verse refer to a street or road, stone wall's door, Noting that it is not capitalized and it has a space in it which theoretically indicates it's not about Stonewall Jackson.  Does anybody have some alternative ideas that might refer to a road? not necessarily in SF but NO as well?  I am trying to look at all the verses with new eyes...

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stonewall_riots this isn't either place--but it's an interesting connection. And perhaps the connection IS true anyway--we don't have any proof that the verse goes with either SF or NO...it would be kind of a kick if this was the New York verse, eh? there is a lot on the 'net about the Stonewall Tavern.

I was reading about that last week,  but then in a city of skyscrapers how do you have highpoints are three? So then I was trying the Intersection of Waller st and Masonic but couldnt find anything sweet there...just houses...

Maybe in the same way that Stonewall doesn't mean wall of stone. High point: the apex of anything. A life, a city, a career....etc. I just thought it was interesting, and moreso because it was connected to New York. The longer we do these puzzles, the more intertwined they seem to be getting!

The stonewall Inn is just outside the PATH Christopher St. station and just minutes walk to Washington Square Park.  Getting very intertwined.  Too intertwined.

Please see my verse 7/image 9 post tonight for a possible solve for Montreal using this verse...

Since this V is getting a lot of talk as of late, I thought I would reintroduce my ideas on it again. At stone wall's door The air smells sweet door n - any means of approach, admittance, or access.  Stand outside of the main entrance to Jackson Sq.  Jackson Square is at the edge of the Fresh Market, the oldest open air market in the US, which is where Cafe du Monde is located (ah, such aromas) and also Magnola trees are all around and smell lovely when in bloom. Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see On either side of the Cathedral are the Presbytere and the Cabildo which are open for the public to tour.  The Presbytere is a museum and the Cabildo was once the home of the Supreme Court. Sounds from the sky Near ace is high These both lead us away from Jackson Sq and across Decatur St.  Across the street and elevated is the Washington Artillery Park: * side note February 19, 1921 - Cannonball hits Algiers A four inch cannonball crashed through the front wall of Mrs. A. Stenhouse, 73, of 317 Alix Street in Algiers. Apparently several young pranksters had loaded a Civil War Era cannon in Jackson Square and fired it across the river. Windows and glass light were broken in the square. Still think "ace is high" is a poker term and relates to the Jax Brewery which has a big JAX on the side. Jack, king or queen force the ace high in blackjack to give you 21.  Also, N.O. was the first gambling city in the US. In fact, when gambling was outlawed thru the rest of LA, it continues to enjoy the prosperity brought by gambling for more than 100 years. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention I believe this all pertains to the Mississippi River which we are now heading towards away from Jackson Sq.  If you use "In jewel's direction" as an aside meaning the casque is buried away from the square and towards the river, you are left with Running north, but first across Is an object Of Twain's attention This describes the Mississippi River, not necessarily the direction it flows, but the route of the river. If you look at the river on a map, it goes across the lower part of LA before going north .  And of course this River is near and dear to 'ole Sam Clemens' heart.  He loved it and that was where he picked up his nom de plume. "Mark twain"  whiich is a Mississippi river term that means that is safe to navigate, safe depth for a steam boat, 2 fathoms. Giant pole argh, the dreaded pole...this could be reference to (but not limited to):  the actual large flag pole in Jackson Sq; a reference to the main pick up and drop off of the horse drawn carriages at J Sq's main entrance ala pole n - Northeastern U.S. a long, tapering piece of wood or other material that extends from the front axle of a vehicle between the animals drawing it; or even the Mississippi itself ala pole v (used without object) - to propel a boat, raft, etc., with a pole: to pole down the river. {just like Tom & Huck did}. Giant step still think it refers to, but not word for word (like the tweaking of the Wright saying) of "That's one small step for man; one giant leap for mankind".  While walking towards the Mississippi River away from J Sq, one of the last things you come to is this: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/scramberlee/236511485/ To the place The casque is kept. Where exactly is it... I don't know.  That is why I didn't come home with it from my visit to the big easy.  I have ideas of basic areas but can not pinpoint it by any means......

fox wrote:: Giant step still think it refers to, but not word for word (like the tweaking of the Wright saying) of "That's one small step for man; one giant leap for mankind".  While walking towards the Mississippi River away from J Sq, one of the last things you come to is this: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/scramberlee/236511485/ Oooooh, I like that.  If perhaps, this verse does NOT refer to New Orleans, is there any other monument to the first moonwalk in any of the other cities to which this verse can apply?  San Francisco, perhaps?

Not to mention that the floor of St. Louis Cathedral is tiled like the background on the image: And the "sounds from the sky" could mean church bells--to wit: Every quarter-hour, the thin peal of bells at St. Louis Cathedral calls saints and sinners, mostly the latter. They clang out a slightly off-key sound, as if they well know the offbeat rhythms of the neighborhood below them. The pulse of a circus atmosphere around the church pounds from hour to hour, as if to compete with the timbre of the sounds from the tower. The church stands sentinel, nether judging nor joining. (From a website dedicated to the French Quarter.)

Re: Verse 7 « Reply #291 on: Yesterday at 03:51:11 am » [quote][/quote]Giant step still think it refers to, but not word for word (like the tweaking of the Wright saying) of "That's one small step for man; one giant leap for mankind".  While walking towards the Mississippi River away from J Sq, one of the last things you come to is this: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/scramberlee/236511485/ maybe it means just a real step that is huge

Just a comarpison  between the Image 1 clock and a clock from the Eureka...a paddle steamboat anchored in the Aquatic Park, SF. (object of Twain's attention in verse 7.) There is more than a little resemblance I posted this in the Image 1 thread, too. AP

Here is Aquatic Park's Giant Pole...from which you could take a giant step in the direction of Twain's-object-of-attention... (the Eureka...the paddle boat.) AP

What is that thing?

As for "stone wall's door"...This is one entrance into Ghirardelli Square. Since the building is a National Historic sight, the facade may not be changed, so it may have looked like this for decades. AP

forest_blight wrote:: What is that thing? a matched  pair of judging towers for boat races... there are two, they face each other

Malted, Yes...there is one more tower...closer to the paddle boat. It also has a lot of diggable area around it. AP

the clock is spot on and I believe you have nailed the thing under the table but the tower- isnt pole shaped except when looked at from the edge. beside that there are two so which one? Next the eureka has been moved so many times that which direction is toward it? Even if it was just moved from one side of the dock to the other that makes a difference of about 35 deg because it is so near the park.  I believe in the 80s it was even farther to the right (one dock more) How big is a giant step? and of course, what in the image is the object that is near to the spot the casque is buried, (i.e the picture of the wall or the picture of the fence/fixture? )

Malted, I thought that the casque was near the Giant Pole. As you said,looking at the tower from the edge, it appears as a giant pole...it may not be in the image. I am still looking around the area.... AP

There have been so many theories regarding our dreaded "Giant Pole" that I don't even know if this idea has been suggested or not...so, please forgive me if it has. This theory comes in real handy for Falcon et al still working this V w/ S.F.  What if "Giant" isn't describing the size of the pole itself?  It could simply be a plain old street sign ala... hxxp://i129.photobucket.com/albums/p206 ... arking.jpg or any other type of sign referencing the SF Giants.  Are there any such signs in or around GGP or the docking area adjacent to Ghirardelli Sq.?  This theory would also hold water in any other city as well.  There may be a Giant gas station nearby or a sign advertising a giant squid at a nearby zoo or a Giant Supermarket hxxp://www.comfortrol.com/images/giant-eagle.jpg .  You get the idea. Just another idea to toss around....

Fox,

There are no Giant Eagle supermarkets in Callifornia. They are a chain in Ohio, Maryland, Pennsylvania and West Virginia only. So far, no casques except the Cleveland one have been in any of these locations, and that one is kind of a done deal now. The Giants, since 1958, have played in Candlestick Park--now known as "Monster Park", around the bay from where you're looking. It would be rather unlikely that there is a sign for them on a pole near the Embarcadero, unless it was a billboard of sorts--advertising the team. (And therefore changeable.)  Candlestick Park IS, however, located on Giants Boulevard, so there might be LOTS of signs there. However, this isn't the area you're looking in right now. The park is on the bay, but quite a little distance from the north side of the bay where you're now looking.

animal painter wrote:: Malted, Yes...there is one more tower...closer to the paddle boat. It also has a lot of diggable area around it. AP Theoretically you only need 1 giant step of space....

Malted, If one of the towers is the "pole", you get to chose. If they are identical, you could look around both. The one nearest the steamboat, has better digging ground. Personally, I would like to see a more unique pole, too. (The totem pole would have been my idea of unique.) AP

animal painter wrote:: Malted, If one of the towers is the "pole", you get to chose. If they are identical, you could look around both. Personally, I would like to see a more unique pole, too. (The totem pole would have been my idea of unique.) AP of course all of this only matters if v7 is not StLouis or Montreal....

Someone has to find one of the other casques so we can narrow down these verse choices! (not including Milwaukee, since we already know that verse is correct...just can't dig it up!!) AP

animal painter wrote:: (not including Milwaukee, since we already know that verse is correct...just can't dig it up!!) How do we know that, I mean aren't we more sure about Houston? anyway on the verse 7 Treasure island link, there is a boyscout camp located in PA(I think) It is called Treasure Island and is still open. it originally opened in 1913  someone should check into that also... I think it actually opened in May...

i thought someone said BP said there wasn't one in PA.

I think he told Egbert that Image4 wasn't in Philly.  I don't know about the rest of PA though.

maltedfalcon wrote:: of course all of this only matters if v7 is not StLouis or Montreal.... animal painter wrote:: Fox, or New Orleans Yes Shecrab, I know that Giant Supermarkets are only located throughout the east....that is why I used it as an 'example' as well as giant squids and Giant gas stations.  I was just referring to a sign (pole) making any and all references to 'giant'. Thanks AP, believe it or not, sometimes I like to crawl out of my comfortable little box.

Well, SORRY Mister Testy!! LOL....how was I supposed to know what you know? (Okay...I geddit.) I may have found the "giant pole": In Jackson Square, every New Year's Eve, a GIANT POLE is erected and a pot of gumbo drops at midnight, like the ball at Times Square. it's taken down after. Don't know how long this has been going on, but from the references I found, maybe a while now.

"The cross of the Legion of Honor has been conferred on me. However, few escape that distinction." The above is a quote by Mark Twain. Maybe, Running north, but first across , is actually referring to a cross.  I know this has been mentioned before but I am not sure if it has been noted that the California Palace of the Legion of Honor is in Lincoln Park which is just north of GGP and as the jewel in image1 is north of GGP maybe that is what is meant by In jewel's direction . Lincoln park is also the western terminus of the old Lincoln Highway.

digger, I two have been working this angle. a couple of things though, no giant pole any where around the presido, the legion of honor, or Lincoln park. personally Im pretty sure verse 7 goes with montreal now and not SF but that being said jump over to image 1 and read my next post....

Just a little more tidbit of trivia regarding my belief of this leading to in or around Jackson Square: Did you know that the Louisiana Purchase was signed inside of the Cabildo in 1803 located adjacent to Jackson Square. hxxp://www.neworleansonline.com/directo ... ionID=1252 sticking with the whole LA Purchase theme...have you ever heard of the Louisiana Purchase Exposition?  Neither had I until I looked it up and was blindsided . And yet another example of my idea that all of these are somehow connected....

if the church means high posts are three why posts, why not crosses or points?

A "post" is also a position--a job--a department. I personally don't think the "high posts are three" refers ONLY to the church--but to the three major "posts" (positions) in government that are in Jackson Square. Education, Justice and Religion. It's merely a nice pun that it also could refer to the three steeples on St. Louis Cathedral.

I see that does work - sort of - what exactly then are the 3 high posts Judge, Priest, teacher? Still why ignore verse2 and its definte NO connection for a tenous possibility?

The posts are the departments in this case: education, justice and religion.  Not the people or the jobs. What is the "definite" connection in verse 3? I don't see it.

yes indeed...how do you fit V3 to N.O.?

Interesting to note, the area around St Stephens, Rue Drummond, Redpath Cres (which leads up to the possible casque site) are all names involved in Redpath sugar, Was a huge business here until it moved to toronto, but still many sites in the area are associated with redpath sugar. Perhaps this is why the air smells sweet...

maltedfalcon wrote:: Interesting to note, the area around St Stephens, Rue Drummond, Redpath Cres (which leads up to the possible casque site) are all names involved in Redpath sugar, Was a huge business here until it moved to toronto, but still many sites in the area are associated with redpath sugar. Perhaps this is why the air smells sweet... Cafe Du Monde - known for their coffee and their beiges, is an open aired cafe running around the clock for over one hundred years. It is at one entrance of Jackson Square.

Hello all! I just found out about this great site and great story yesterday and after reading all I can from these forums I think I've caught The Secret bug. I was working on Verse 3 because the consensus seems that it's about Boston, but I couldn't really make anything stick. Sensing that there probably was one in Boston I took many a virtual walk around Boston and started concentrating on this verse. Now there is a lot that doesn't fit just yet, and I am probably so far off but listen to what I got and then debunk me At stone wall's door There is a Jackson Square in Boston that is fenced in and above street level surrounded by a stone wall An object of Twain's attention Jackson Square is at the end of Lamartine Street and Centre Street. Alphonse Lamartine is a famous french poet. Mark Twain referenced Lamartine in The Innocents Abroad "Such is the history that Lamartine has shed such cataracts of tears over." Giant Pole In the middle of the park there is a HUGE pole dead center of the park. I don't know about the rest just yet, but I was thinking for The air smells sweet There is a chestnut avenue surroung the park. I dunno if chestnuts smell sweet but its a stretch. The rest I am not sure of yet. Actually, the aforementioned I am not sure of.  But this is my first attempt so any advice would be great.

Just doing some more research on the area. One of the most common architectural features of the area is three story houses. High posts are three?

Got another piece of evidence. All of the parks in this Jamaica Plain section of Boston are called jewels because they belong to the Emerald Necklace park system designed by Frederick Law Olmstead.

I think you're mixing verses.. but These are great ideas! Keep at it!

I think I am dyslexic. The phrase "Near ace is high" seems to have been connected to Highway One by everyone. For me, the first time I read that line I interpretted it sort of in reverse and not so literal: Near ace = King (come on poker fans) is High = High-King...hiking. It seems like more of a crossword clue instead of a literal "near (as in location) this.." Ok shoot me down someone.

I think that's brilliant! There was a similar clue in The Golden Apple Tale hunt: "Miss Muffet's meal didn't cost a dime" = "free whey" = "freeway."

bemo12 wrote:: At stone wall's door There is a Jackson Square in Boston that is fenced in and above street level surrounded by a stone wall I also like it miyaka...don't shoot yourself down (there are plenty around here who will do that in time ).  That is actually something that has never {to my knowledge} been brought up before and I think it is brilliant.  With all of the roadblocks we have run into as of late, I am beginning to wonder if we need to start looking for more wordplay and less literal.  I have recently began looking for centers of a lot of electricity lately 'at a place where joules abound'... Welcome to the hunt bemo!  I think you may be getting your V's mixed up as well but I like your ideas.  I was really interested when you posted: ...the odd connectivity rears its ugly head once again FB.

Thanks for the kind welcome. I'm not sure why you think I am mixing my verses up but I have pasted Verse 7 here and this is what I have so far. At stone wall's door The aformentioned stonewalled Jackson Square in Boston. The air smells sweet Not far away Chestnut Ave is right beside this road. High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see Frederick LAW Olmstead designed the park system in the area. Very tentative and weak but I have shot an email to the local historical society seeing if they can pinpoint something else in that area. Sounds from the sky This area is right in the flight path of one of the local airports and there are constantly planes flying overhead. I don't know about 1981 though. Near ace is high There is an Ace's High bar that another poster found on this board, it actually is right in the vicinity of where I was looking. Also ACER is a type of tree and Arnold's Arboretum is famous for having a great display of Acer trees. Running north, but first across Centre Street runs north after cross over to the park. Weak connection again. In jewel's direction The park system is called the Emerald Necklace Parks System and the individual parks are referenced as jewels. Also of note, one of the parks in question is Arnold's Arboretum and this is run by Harvard, and knowing BP's connection to Harvard. Also there seems to be a lot of conjecture about parks designed by Frederick Law Olmstead. He designed the Emerald Necklace Park System. Is an object Of Twain's attention There is a Sawyer Rd in the vicinity and also Lamartine Rd. As mentioned before Lamartine is a French poet that Twain mention in a famous quote. Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. There is a park in Jackson Square with a huge pole in the middle of it. I've heard that some of the verses may be out of order so this might fit, but it is a stretch. Right now my money is on the Arnold's Arboretum but I don't yet know what the Giant pole is. Anyways, this is what I have so far. If anyone wants to help out in proving me wrong I would appreciate it greatly, if not I'm gonna research my butt off focusing this verse with Boston until I prove myself wrong.

There is no way to prove somebody wrong, short of finding a casque elsewhere. Until then Your theory is as good as the next. Question?  With all the jewel references have you looked at trying to apply verse 2?

It sure is hard to forget: "If Thucydides is North of Xenophon" & "Eighteenth day Twelfth hour Lit by lamplight In truth, be free." from V3 when thinking about a Boston casque though...

True but it was also hard to forget Congress and a sitting L and not think about washington DC... Sometimes the obvious isnt...

Unknown: At stone wall's door There is a Jackson Square in Boston that is fenced in and above street level surrounded by a stone wall Sorry---I cannot find any photos of this, or what it is you're talking about. I know there is a Jackson Square in Boston, in Jamaica Plain---it's one of the city's poorest and most underdeveloped neighborhoods. It's the Latino sector of town. But all the pics I've seen show sidewalks, buildings, streetcorners--no stone wall. can you be more specific (street names,etc.)?

Shecrab, This is the address I come up with. 322 Centre Street  Jamaica Plain, MA If you look at it in Street-view on Google map, you see a short stone block edging around part of the park (behind a chain link fence.) AP

Sorry----I still don't see an area enclosed by a stone wall. I see Centre--I can see #322--I can see the chain link fence. I cannot see any stone walls. If there IS one, it's likely a very small, or short one. And more importantly, I see absolutely NO place a casque could be buried. I don't think this area qualifies as a likely spot. **SHRUG**

Shecrab, The only stone wall I see here is the short retaining wall surrounding the park. It appears that there is construction going on here...hence, the chain link fence. AP

As I said. Not a likely place, IMHO. That "wall" looks to be a block high.

I think that makes it a curb not a wall...

At cementcurb's door, the air smells anything but sweet

Unknown: At cementcurb's door, the air smells anything but sweet

Giant pole Giant step a standard for measuring by pole...  1 pole = 16.5 feet if an average (male) step is approx  2.5 feet ... How would we define "Giant"? Remembering child hood games a giant step was as far as you could stretch without falling down... As an adult of average hight (not considered short or tall) I'm at about 3.5 ft for a comfortable Giant step. This is about a 40% increase. Using that a Giant pole would be 23.1 Ft 23.1 + 3.5 = 26.6      approx  26 feet 7 inchs

i still think giant as in really BIG, for those lines it would just be too hard to figure out someone elses step or stride, i would think but thanks for the heads up on pole. i own 13  acres and 4 poles, and in the 27 years that i have had the land, i could never find out how much a pole was, or even for sure what it meant.

A step is also what a pole or mast on a ship is attached to. Giant pole, giant step could be just that. A giant pole attached to a giant base.

Hello all.  I am new to this hunt and would like to share some of my ideas.  I haven't read through all the post so forgive me if i repeat anything. I believe (like most everyone does)  that image 1 leads to san francisco.  And that verse 7 goes with it.  My first thoughts were Golden Gate park after seeing the image, but i just couldn't get the verse to completely make sense.  I found myself trying to hard to make things fit.  The verse is supposed to lead you to the exact location to dig.  Now it could be that so much has changed in the area in 25+ years that the verse won't completely make sense.  But looking at the two treasures that have been solved most all of the landmarks are still there.  So if we assume that most all of the landmarks are still there with this treasure, then the verse will only make senses in the right location.  It will come together with limited effort. Recently i went to san francisco with the family for a weekend getaway.  Two days before the trip i was introduced to this hunt by a friend.  He had me convinced that it was in golden gate park.  So the first day in the city we spent in gg park looking and looking and looking, taking notes and pics.  i had to beg the family to spend the whole day in the park looking for the treasure.  So at the end of the day, with no luck i promised the family no more treasure hunting.  The next day we went to the fishermans warf area.  We parked the car near Russian Park and decided to walk down to Ghiradelli square, and thats when i noticed it.  From Russian Park, looking down Larkin St. I could see the Gh of the Ghiradelli sign and it was backward just like the G h in the image. Then after we turned down Larkin St. I instantly noticed a ship (the Balclutha) in the bay with 3 large masts and behind it in the distance, Alcatraz.  After buying some chocolate we crossed Beach St. and went to the Maritime museum.  Most of it was closed but there were some plaques and historical things to read.  One read: “The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.” Many attribute this phrase to Mark Twain, however the origin is unknown.  From there you can see a stone wall along side Fort Mason, but i didn't walk down it to see if there was a doorway.  There is also a stone wall down by the water that looked like a water break.  Also from the Maritime National Historic Park you can see part of the Golden Gate bridge.  Later we went to the ships and there is a steam engine Paddle Wheel boat (Eureka) in the bay.  Mark Twain has written about both his interest in steam engines and Paddle Wheel boats on the Mississippi. Then we headed down towards pier 39.  By the time we headed back it was dark so i couldn't explore the area more.  Then homeward bound. I think the verse fits very well here.  Most everything i saw was there in the early 80's. I don't know if many people have checked the area but i would like to hear from anyone that has.  There was also two observation towers (don't know how long they have been there) in the Maritime park.  That made me think about the moons in image 1.  Moon can be viewed at an observatory (observation tower).  Just a thought. Heres what i have for verse 7. At stone walls door: Stone wall by Fort Mason or by Water??? The air smells sweet Ghiradelli square Not far away High posts are three The 3 masts on the Balclutha Education and Justice For all to see Education=Maritime Museum??? Justice=Alcatraz Sounds from the sky ?? Birds, seagulls, pelicans planes or jets from the old Alameda air base, the flight path was over the bay???? Near ace is high Running north, but first across Ace= number 1 High= highway highway 1 Golden Gate bridge runs north, but first across the bay. In jewels direction Is an object Of Twains attention Object of Twains attention= Paddle Wheel boat (Eureka) the jewel is in that direction Giant pole flagpole observation tower Giant step From the giant pole, face the jewels direction (paddle wheel boat) and take a giant step....Dig. these are just my thoughts. again, sorry if i repeated anything and sorry if this post is so long.

here is a panoramic view of that area hxxp://static.panoramio.com/photos/original/8940217.jpg

i wonder how much that area has changed in 25+yrs i also think this is what this line of verse meant Near ace is high Running north, but first across Ace= number 1 High= highway highway 1 Golden Gate bridge runs north, but first across the bay. sure is quiet here these days

again (also put this in the image1 thread) remember the paddlewheel boat moves, it is not in the same location from year to year (or at least decade to decade) I remember it being on the other side of the dock which on the shore would make at least a 20-30 foot difference in direction.. not saying that's not the object, but you will need to find out exactly where it was tied up in 1982...

ouch

I haven't read this whole thread yet but has anyone thought about the giant step referring to the SF Giants? Maybe the number of feet between the bases?  Just kept thinking about giant step and the fact that SF has a team named the Giants.

sure did, but the giants play on the other side of the peninsula from ggpark or fishermans wharf. distance between bases wouldnt be a giant step as it would be the same for all baseball teams. definitly thought about candlestick park as a location but it is surrounded by asphalt and fenced off at all times besides that nothing I could find other than the word Giant points that way...

the table does remind me of a candlestick ...and in the game "CLUE"..........a candlestick is a murder weapon ..........(don't ask, just how my mind works, has no boundaries)

I just attended a conference in San Francisco, and luckily I found time to scout and take pictures. I hiked around the eastern half of Golden Gate Park, as well as Coit Tower. I didn't unearth any casques, but I can put to rest the idea that 1443 (circle-square-square-triangle) refers to an address on Montgomery St. -- it doesn't. The Filbert Steps start at the end of the 1300 block / beginning of 1400. Here are my pictures; maybe someone can spot something I didn't. hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/quantpsy

good job FB, i dont have anything to add though, to bad we didnt have this internet thing , back when prob would have been a flash in the pan, ya know one of those, i know what, where, ect. that is. hindsight, gotta love it

For some odd reason I always see things differently then most. Can we say idiot? Don't laugh, here goes-Stone wall's door, drive through the road going over Hoover Dam, coming in to Las Vegas are three huge stacks or there were. Education and justice, Univ. of Nevada and William S Boyde School of Law. Sounds from the sky-Nellis Air Force Base. Now if you come from the south going north to Las Vegas (in jewels direction) there was a casino called "Nevada Landing", it was built to look like a huge paddlewheel riverboat. The bad thing is I think it was leveled last year. The sign is still there though. I have changed my mind about the picture 8. I think it is Nevada and this verse goes with it. Just a thought.Oh ya I forgot the air smells sweet, Ethel M Chocolate factory is at that end of Las Vegas. Can't get any sweeter then the smell of chocolate!

Further thought would put the spot to dig around the banks of the Colorado river in Laughlin Nv. There is a paddlewheel river boat casino there also. That would give you the difference between the tan (shore) and blue(water). There are large concrete steps that go down to the water. Everything else would stay the same as far as my other post. It has been quiite awhile since I was there and I don't know if it would still be do able.

Im excited. The verse fits. One thing that always bugged me about searching in GoldenGate park with this verse was there was no obvious Twain connection. My Current location has an obvious Twain Connection. Which means the actual dig location is quite obvious.  So it will be a simple Dig (although I bet the ground is rock hard) that might mean its not buried very deep. So in GGpark to be sure I had to dig in every direction Which took several days over several months. This spot should be easy enough to check in a 1/2 hour or so. Got to run by a surplus store and get one of those folding shovels.

Last year dashcat posted Candlestick Park as a possibility because of the SF Giants. I just reread V7, and I think there's some merit to the idea (if falcon's idea doesn't work out). Giant pole ( Candlestick Park , home of the SF Giants ) Giant step (Right beside Candlestick Park is the large, rocky Bayview Hill and Park) To the place The casque is kept (it would take a giant step to get to the top of Bayview Hill) It fits only the last 4 lines, but maybe this will inspire someone to find more links to that part of town.

This is the verse part of what I came up with for todays SF hunt. be sure to read my concurrent post in the image 1 thread. At stone walls door: The Palace of the Legion of Honor. The air smells sweet Which was donated to SF by alma de bretteville spreckels Alma is very famous, was very rich and all her money came from Sugar, Spreckels at least in California = Sugar. Not far away High posts are three From this spot Sutro tower is plainly visible or if you like the lamp posts in front of the Palace all have 3 globes with points. Education and Justice For all to see Education=Sitting in the  entance of the palace is Rodin's Thinker. Justice=In front of the museum is a statue of El Cid - Hero of Spain - a hero famous for being educated by the Castellians and also famous for seeking justice as he fought. Sounds from the sky ?? Birds, seagulls, pelicans Huh absolutely these birds are everywhere and constantly noisy. Now you turn left from 43 ave and walk down to Lands end. There is a monument there to the USS San Francisco, which sets on the cliff above the pacific. The monument is a flagpole mounted on a piece of the bridge of the ship. Near ace is high Running north, but first across standing at the flagpole you can  turn and look over your right shoulder to see a beautiful view of the goldent gate bridge, which of course is Highway 1 which runs north from where you are but first crosses over the golden gate. In jewels direction Is an object Of Twains attention Without moving you can turn your head to the left and you see, less than 200 yards away, Cliff House, Mark Twain while living  in San Francisco wrote about going to visit cliff house (mostly complaining about how far away it was) Giant pole The flagpole Giant step If you Line up the flag pole and cliff house you can walk to the edge of the monument and look straign down 8-10 feet at the dirt hillside the monument is setting on. the 8-10 feet = a giant step down. The trouble being once you get there. the ground is very eroded along and under the monument. The park service has  done lots of work trying to stabilze the ground. hemp netting. cement, large metal staples. but mostly it's eroded dirt with some grasses and small plants. I dug a hole but didnt find anything. its very difficult to say if the area is still the same as it was in 1982, its possible large portions of the dirt has  washed away or even washed down on that area. The ground was very hard for the first foot but soft underneath, I was very concerned with causing damage so I didnt dig a very large hole I went down about 2 1/2 feet. There was too much foot trafffic to do much more. the hill was very steep there. Without confirmation that that is the spot, I would not dig there anymore. This solution has plusses and minuses + obvious object of twains attention within site + in sight of cliff house. + it is on a cliff above the water like in the painting. + in site of Aces High + To get here You turn left from the first spot of the verse. + One of the rocks in the ocean has a arch which shows up as a strangely shaped hole. + Lincoln park + located in the headlands of the Golden Gate. - The flagpole, while a pole, isnt all that Giant... - No obvious dig here spot. (possible there once was, but it has eroded away) but the monument actually overhangs the hillside, so there is not even a wall to dig right next to. your just sort of out on the hill below the railing. + i

Unknown: standing at the flagpole you can  turn and look over your right shoulder to see a beautiful view of the goldent gate bridge, which of course is Highway 1 which runs north from where you are but first crosses over the golden gate. Maybe the interpretation of this line is simply that the Lincoln Highway, which ends at the Legion of Honor, was the first highway across America.

Another possibility: "In jewel's direction" Along the bay in 1915, was held the Panama Pacific International Exposition--which had as its centerpiece the Tower Of Jewels. This was a 43-story building, covered in glass "jewels", and was certainly the tallest building there. It is not there now, but perhaps this refers to the direction it would have been in? If you google it, you can find a map of the whole exposition in relationship to the bay.

I'm sure we've already discussed this, but there used to be a giant pole -- a totem pole -- at the Cliff House. a quick google image search brings up these examples hxxp://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/d ... bdff78.jpg hxxp://commondatastorage.googleapis.com ... 534697.jpg (large) you can see where it used to be in relation to a staircase and the edge of a drop-off down to the beach. this other image seems to contradict the 2nd one? hxxp://cdn1.ioffer.com/img/item/683/679 ... an0659.jpg

Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention A valiant effort, malt -- I salute you. But you want to take the "Running north, but first across" and associate it with the lines before it. I would rather associate it with the lines following it. That is, "Running north, but first across" I interpret as a participial (or is it adjectival?) phrase, with "object" as the subject. That is, the "object / Of Twain's attention" is that which is "Running north, but first across." Read like this, you get 3 independent pieces of information: Sounds from the sky. Near ace is high. Running north -- but first across -- is an object of Twain's attention.

FB, You must have read the grammar book "Eats Shoots and Leaves" ... AP

It's difficult talking to me sometimes, knowing that I am diagramming your sentences in my head...  :-/ Here's another way to read it: Sounds from the sky. Near ace is high, running north. But first... across is an object of Twain's attention!

Interestiing analysis, that would seem to put the casque near Highway 1 Except where it crosses ggpark highway 1 is a city street until it reaches the presidio (south of the ggate bridge) the last 3 miles or so. which at the time was an active military base that BP would not have had access to. or it means accross the Bridge which would remove it from san Francisco. Also I am now pretty sure the silhouette under the table is in Lincoln park near the palace of the legion of honor. as  soon as I get the photo downloaded I will post it. I will be concentrating on the lincoln park area

catherwood wrote:: I'm sure we've already discussed this, but there used to be a giant pole -- a totem pole -- at the Cliff House. We have and this would be truly sad if it were the case. Cliffhouse and the area around where the totem pole was (both places) was entirely dug out re-enforced and rebuilt. just a few years ago. FYI the totem pole is back I saw it yesterday. It is again along the road just at the southeast corner of cliffhouse.

Is it possible that "Giant pole" refers to the totem pole, but one would have to take a "giant step" down the cliff-face to find the casque location (possibly marked by a visual confirmer from P1)? Is that area even accessible to anyone but seals? Here's another idea. Rather than down the cliff, could it simply be across the street from the totem pole, a "Giant step" up ?

i'm sorry i can't remember who dug by the horse at the horse shoe pits.  jimersion? if i remember right, he dug at the front of the horse.  i was wondering why he didn't dig at the "tail" end since twain wrote "the horse's tale" and also wondered if the word "object"  could be for something twain objected to, like golf, since they say he made the saying "golf is a good walk spoiled." and he disliked "slavery"  and "american soldiers" (he called them uniformed assassins) and there is the DOUGHBOY MONUMENT which is a monument to american soldiers. and if i'm looking right at the map, the REDWOOD GROVE" is near the DOUGHBOY MONUMENT with a flag pole.  (stand at ATTENTION  for the flag)..........mark twain meaning 12 feet.....flagpole?  12 feet Redwood Grove could be a GIANT POLE and of course the flag pole. object: anything tangible object: dislike (like "i OBJECT to this line of reasoning" ) malted, r u still around? scroll down to redwood memorial grove to see the doughboy with a flagpole right beside him hxxp://www.sanfranciscodays.com/golden- ... le/#heroes

Still here! I think there are two flag poles at the doughboy statue. which one? object could be a verb rather than a noun but then wouldnt he have said objection? But he could very well have been "being sneaky"

it's good to see you guys again! i don't know which flagpole malted.......... the one in front of the doughboy,  maybe? .........i'm just talking,  hoping something i say will click in your heads and make u have an aha moment. maybe we're making it to difficult, twain talked about everything, so maybe it's just "fulton street" that's why i liked jimerson's digging at the horseshoe pits because it was close to it, and maybe the horse was "Arabian"...........i know , i know this pic is asian........but ... it's been so quiet, i was afraid everyone had quit looking. i'm back in austin and i have time to get back into the hunt.  takes a long time just to get notes straight again. i've just been posting thoughts that come to me as i read thru the threads.. keep me grounded malted

shecrab wrote:: Another possibility: "In jewel's direction" Along the bay in 1915, was held the Panama Pacific International Exposition--which had as its centerpiece the Tower Of Jewels. This was a 43-story building, covered in glass "jewels", and was certainly the tallest building there. It is not there now, but perhaps this refers to the direction it would have been in? If you google it, you can find a map of the whole exposition in relationship to the bay. I too thought this and posted as such many moons ago...

I like Joan of Arc best of all my books; and it is the best; I know it perfectly well. And besides, it furnished me seven times the pleasure afforded me by any of the others; twelve years of preparation, and two years of writing. The others need no preparation and got none. – Mark Twain

I'm suspicious of the "at stone wall's door" being a chess opening tactic where pawns are staggered in what is called the Stonewall Attack.  Nothing in mind to connect this with a location though.

This is the stone wall's door I was talking about under the topic of Image 12 to go with this verse.

The chess angle seems more and more likely.  Has no one plumbed those depths?  Fox just mentioned the statue shaped like a chess piece and the backgound to image 7 looking like a checkered board. I just looked up Paul Morphy and confirmed he WAS a New Orleansian.  He was great, and if you haven't had a chance to play through one of his historical games, you must.  A real treat.  When I get up the courage, I'll see if his known history overlaps with anything mentioned in these forums, but for now I'm a little scared of this area...NO is pure raw intimidation.

Here's another example of what I think is meant by stonewall's door and the air is sweet:

I have been saying Rivergate casino, which wasn't a casino until 1986.  I'm having to rethink "Near ace is high".  The Fair Grounds Race Course looks like a better fit for the gambling reference.  The arm, stick, and mask even match the inner pattern of the track along with the top curve of the clock for the curve of the track.  The stick in hand itself on Image 7 still seems Joan of Arc styled (and still baking bread IMHO as a metaphor).  I'm trying to rethink the Coliseum reference, but now I have a phrase stuck in my mind "I call 'em as I see 'em", which is a signature phrase of baseball ump/sportscaster Gil Stratton.  Tying in a baseball motif to Image 7 is a new thought for me.  The "mound" on the bottom right side...the "jockey" looks like he's holding a mitt...hmm....Coliseum = "call 'em as I see 'em"...would Preiss do such a thing?  Come on people, I need some feedback on this one. Correction:  the phrase was "Time to call 'em as I see 'em".  Also, Gil was in Stalag 17, one of my favorite movies. Maybe this phrase fits the verse 3 line, "those who pass the coliseum" - I-90 passing Fenway? "At stonewall's door" still has me thinking of 417 Royal St., location of Brennan's Restaurant (the air smells sweet) and was the home of Paul Morphy the chess prodigy.  Stonewall as a chess tactic just fits better than the others for me.  An ordinary wall of stone just seems too boring, and this resonates with the chesslike statue of McDonogh.  Where to next, not sure...I'm running around in circles with New Orleans.

I have been thinking about the street name relationship to verse and image lately.  I wondered if "High posts are three" could be a reference to Dauphine St.  La Dauphine was a three-masted sailing vessale that served as the flagship of the explorer Giovanni da Verrazzano on his first voyage to the New World. Dauphine St., Toulouse St., and St. Louis St. are all in the same area near Jackson Square and the Brennan's Restaurant (Stonewall's door- also home of chessmaster Paul Morhpy) on 417 Royal St. across from the Court building.  The McDonogh statue in Layfayette seems like the next leg with "Education and Justice".  There seems to be a little bit of alternation between streets and landmarks.  "Giant Pole" could be the street POL-ymnia by Coliseum Square, named after Polyhmnia the Greek muse. I see a possible path starting at Preservation Hall and taking various streets to the Coliseum Square.  Tying in P7 we get another set of landmarks and roads.  When I subtract most of the elements already put to use, I end up thinking lastly about a location just east and south of the fountain at the end of Polymnia St. which might correspond to an area in the Coliseum park and a spot where the mask in P7 sits relative to the center of the clock when thought of as the center of the fountain. At this point, I'm thinking the "Giant Step" is the raised bed of grass on the northeast side of the park, but that isn't meant to be the dig location.  I think we use that as one of two points on a line, the other point being the location of Joan of Arc (foot of Canal St.) and giving us an intersection near the base of a tree east of the fountain. Another angle I've been considering is Stephen Foster's song "Camptown Races", which is ambiguous with V2 but works with "NeaR ACE is high" on V7, but either way I'm not sure how Do-Dah, Do-Dah gets me somewhere.

V7 I7 Coliseum Park. Yeah, I don't care how you figure it, but I'll back it to the hilt. We need boots on the ground. Places like Montreal are never going to get investigated without inducting more people into this arcane science. I've been wondering about leveraging the power of social networking via Myspace, Facebook, Twitter et al... Actually I did start a Facebook page but it's a bit rubbish. Recently picked up www.secrettreasure.co.uk which might become a shrine to my twisted theories about this book.

Running north, but first across Has me thinking more clearly about racing and first across the finish line...the winner being a "champion" or "champ" which is similar to the word 'camp': Race and Camp streets? I'm only venturing a guess here, but I think the idea is to go diagonally from the corner of Camp/Race towards the fountain and stop just on the other side of the lamp post.  Perhaps the Fountain is seen as the giant step and the lamp post is seen as the giant pole. Here is a mash-up of match-ups for verse (ABC...) and image (123...) A. "high posts are 3" matched to Dauphin St. (using La Dauphine sailing vessel with 3 masts) B.  Brennan's restaurant, "The air smells sweet" C.  "education and justice", John McDonogh statue in Lafayette park D.  Polymnia, Camp, and Race streets, "giant pole", "first across"=champ=camp, "running north"=racing 1.  Preservation Hall, written on clockface 2.  Toulouse/St. Louis streets, stick and mask 3.  Joan of Arc Statue (old location), resembles the way hand holds stick and mask 4.  Superdome, resembles Moon in clock 5.  Margaret Statue, area resembles short and long hands 6.  Coliseum Square Park, fountain and raised grass semi-circle closely match shapes in clock

I'd prefer to be on location before suggesting this, but I found it interested that a line could be drawn through the center of the Superdome and the fountain in Coliseum Square that also touches the corner where Camp and Race cross.

I'm a little distracted at the moment, but maybe later someone will same me the trouble of going back through the thread.  I'm looking for associations to nursery rhyme or children's stories. Giant Pole Giant Step I wondered if this is a clue about a fairytale Giant, like the one in Jack and the Beanstalk.  Extracting out the "Pole" and "step" and compounding them to form pole-step, which is a type of foot peg that is associated with telephone poles gives me the idea that we are going to find a telephone pole in the vicinity of Camp and Race St. Has anyone else gotten a hint of fairytale referencing from this verse or image 7?

I know this has been done to death, but flipping back over this one I was strongly drawn to Armstrong Square again. Just seems so simple and natural, with the Armstrong statue as clear a visual pointer as Ponce. The dominant features of Image 7 are arches and moons. Considering that the mask is Armstrong, I still like this arch for the mask mouth... ...and Armstrong for the "giant step". Games with Neil and Louis. The arch text reminds me of the arching "Preservation". Also fits the idea of "Ace (A) is high", and Armstrong sounds as if he's from the sky. It's only a stone's throw from Jackson - five blocks - where the verse could start, and the route passes Preservation Hall. Then there's the 1929 date for the New Orleans Municipial Auditorium.  "It was constructed by the contractor George A. Caldwell, who also designed nine buildings on the Louisiana State University campus in Baton Rouge and three parish courthouses" - education and justice...? I know the place has been torn apart, but there might be some mileage in doing the old clockface analogy on it. The giant pole is still a mystery - wondered about that chimney. Together with the arch they frame the 1929 auditorium quite nicely, though I don't know what that building is or when it dates from...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I know this has been done to death, but flipping back over this one I was strongly drawn to Armstrong Square again. Just seems so simple and natural, with the Armstrong statue as clear a visual pointer as Ponce. Ok, I just don't get it.  We have had a clear visual pointer for quite some time but people, for some reason or other, keep dismissing it.  Here is our confirmer. that IS our boy!!!!!!

I've explored the possibilities of Lafayatte Square as closely as I can, put together pages of notes about it and written twice to the Lafayette Square Conservancy. But at the end of the day it's no good just saying: "It's Lafayette Square" without any suggestion of where in Lafayette Square, and no explanation of most of the verse or image. It's got a possible match for one small element in the image, and an extremely obscure quote about Sarmiento in the same part of town. By contrast, Chicago had several statues, Cleveland had a huge great wall and fountain, FOY has an obvious statue...and so does Image 7. The mask clearly represents the statue of Louis Armstrong in Louis Armstrong Park. For pinpointing a specific spot, there are all the references to arches. New Orleans, the "Crescent City". Joan of Arc. The image is stuffed with arches. Here's another of the most obvious ones. French image, French for "close" by one end of the arch, turquoise shown under the arch. It's like the gold at the end of the rainbow. Overall, the imagery in image 7 fits more easily with an arch in Louis Armstrong Park than this statue the other end of town. What does Lafayette have to do with Louis, jazz, and Preservation Hall...? And there's a verse which leads you to the exact spot: Armstrong: "One small step for man, one giant leap for mankind" Giant step To the place the casque is kept The rest of the verse also fits quite naturally. You can have giant poles (the large N and S on the sign), stone walls, etc - and a very specific place to look. "Not far away high posts are three..."

While looking into a time sensitive set of references that are practically impossible to consider based on the themes in image 7, all except for a few details, the symbolism of a grandfather clock and the ragged looking and dirty nailed hand, and something based on the history of chess, I found a science fiction fantasy connection that supports something I've worked on. It depends on whether Byron Preiss had any close ties to the Swordsmen and Sorcerers Guild.  I dont actually know anything about Byron or his work outside these poems and I haven't planned on reading the book.  I am looking at the possibility Byron was familiar with Poul Anderson's 1954 book, The Immortal Game.

Unknown: The New Orleans public school system had been established in 1841, but the McDonogh Fund facilitated major expansion. Eventually over 30 schools were built, most emblazoned with his name and a number. By the early 1970s there were 20 McDonogh schools remaining in New Orleans. In the 1980s and 1990s, many of those were renamed in a movement to remove the names of slaveholders from New Orleans' public schools. I was wondering if there might be something linking McDonogh (clock-boy) to Louis Armstrong Park. This is from his Wikipedia entry: Apparently McDonogh 18 was on St Ann near Rampart St, which is near Louis Armstrong Park. hxxp://www.old-new-orleans.com/NO_McDonogh18.html According to this link it was at 1125 St Ann St. hxxp://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/t ... 1053029926 Put that into Google Maps and it shows you the Armstrong arch. This link confirms that the building (also known as the Jean Louis Rabassa house) is/was a historical property within the park grounds. (The arm, of course, is another pointed "Armstrong" clue...)

Why do you refer to Clockboy as McDonogh? You have some great info, WR.

Unknown: McDonogh’s request that the children place flowers on his statue every year evolved into the annual celebration known as McDonogh Day. Thanks erexere...clock-boy is Fox's name for his favourite Lafayette McDonogh statue, showing the boy on the clock from image 7. With all the other numbers surrounding him, it might be worth checking out the positions of some of the other McDonogh schools (eg McDonogh #9), but I reckon #18 is where the action is...also explains his arch... I think the Armstrong arch is right on the spot where it was, or he's looking at it. I'll try contacting the architect Robin Riley and see if he's willing to discuss... hxxp://robinrileyarchitect.com/Architecture.html He had a house on Toulouse...it's all starting to make sense now. There was probably one near Joan as well... No. 18 is best known as the Rabassa-De Pouilly House, having been the residence of architect JNB De Pouilly... hxxp://www.knowla.org/entry.php?rec=473 It was moved a few hundred feet when they created the park.

McDonough 18, aka the Rabassa-De Pouilly House, is now here... ...though like I say, I think it was originally beside the arch before being moved when the park was created...I'll confirm. So there you go - a direct link from clock-boy to a historic building preserved in Louis Armstrong Park. "The timber frame with its members dove-tailed, mortised and tennoned, and numbered with Roman numerals is another unusual feature of the house." Hey erexere, did you mention a Facebook acquaintance in New Orleans...? Any chance they might be willing to go poke around...?

Oh, thats just too cool.  Thanks Fox! And good catch on thenRoman Numeral feature, WR. My FB acquaintance  is iffy, I'll certainly ask them to have a go.

In was just noting how a Rampart is much like a Rook in chess.  In the game of chess you have the option to perform a special move called Castling where the King is moved two or three checkers to the side and the Rook in that direction is moved to a center row on the opposite side of the King as protection and development in a single move.  This McDonogh 18 house has made a such a maneuver...

*excitement* WR, your overhead of the park gave me a great visual idea tha if you were to draw an 8 x 8 grid on it and think of the arch as the starting position of the white queen's rook at A1, then the McDonogh house is occupying the F6 spot where the queen moves into the Immortal Game's sacrifice with forced check and mate in three.

As much as this will be disliked, I'm just finding an anagram of an acrostic a possibilty since there are some multiple double letters grouped together similar to where 'SSS' appears before 'ELOY' in verse 5. FIRST GO NINTH GATE

I love anagrams. I just made "Gnomes admire" into "Lampooner aids" by switching "gem" for "opal" - clearly a reference to Montrealer Sean Kelly.  ;)

WhiteRabbit wrote:: ... by switching "gem" for "opal" This post just made me laugh so hard my gum came out. I think the psychometrician in the office next to me heard me choking. You need to quit giving erexere such a hard time, WR

I hate anagrams as much as the next guy...yeah that guy.

Sounds from the sky How long has NO Airport been called Loius Armstrong?  Silly me, it was in 2001... Ok.  Lots ofmstuffmbouncing around for me.  I'm not done with Coliseum Square Park... I thought it looks represented by the half-sided shape, almost like a reflection of it would make a mask design, the fountain pool being both eyes...but I'm not sold on the location until a specific order (does it half to be a linear path?) of clues defined by verse and image in combination...it has to have a beginning and end... I wanna say wherever it ends it's McDonogh that gets you there.  Armstrong is a strong support device school.  A community park fits the notion somehow.  What is good for then orphans...where do poor folks go to hear good music or see good art?  Coliseum Park maybe?  City Park's Art garden or Storyland?

Just looking into a perspective that touches on other ideas, but my eye just caught the letters POLE in Napoleon...Na-pole-on.  Is that a possibility for the Giant Pole? I was researching something about Desha County and read about a ghost town in Arkansas named Napoleon, which was mentioned in Twain's Life On The Mississippi, something about 10,000 dollars hidden in a wall that was washed away with the city when the river swelled over the banks.  Im not touching on anything specific, but it sure seems like 'the object of Twain's attention' could be something Napoleon related, although I've long been sold on the Joan of Arc statue.

That is an interesting take on our POLE.  All this time we have been searching for an actual Pole, or something resembling a pole.  I think one of the earth's poles was bandied about briefly...can't get much more giant than that.  However, calling Mr. B a giant is a bit of a stretch since he stood 5'6 1/2" tall and weighed in at a meaty 172 pounds. He was an emperor so he could be considered a giant.  He also referred to China as a sleeping giant.  Argh....around and around we go.

As I wandered around with googlestreet view I thought the Carnegie children's resource center looked interesting.  Standing at it's steps and looking north at the big clock in St. Stevens steeple tower.  Also, up the road at 1314 Napoleon was once an orphanage, and later the home to the Rice Family.  Author Anne Rice, (1976 Interview with a vampire?).  ...was converted to Condos in 2005.  This does look like a big circle, if we start in City Park, parade down Esplanade into French Quarter, Canal St., come around to Camp to Magazine, and on to Uptown at Napoleon Ave and back in the direction of City Park. The focus certainly seems to be McDonogh (clock boy) school and Orphan (M. Haughery is the hand on the clock).  Was Armstrong an orphan?  I couldn't quite tell from the bio.

He might have been, but it wouldn't have mattered much when he wrote the Secret. The Rice family lived in California until 1988. They did not purchase the house  in NOLA until then--there would not have been any physical connection betweent he Secret and Anne Rice except for the fact that the book's setting is New Orleans, as are hundreds of other books.

Ok, good, the vampire idea was pretty thin to nonsense anyhow. Perhaps the path is designed to take us near the Sophie B Wright Statue around 1900 Magazine St., continuing past Napoleon Ave.  She was a crippled educator.  Being crippled resonates with 'Giant Step'.

clock boy is dressed a jockey = horse rider Armstrong (etymological) = Scottish King gives name to a man who lifted him to the saddle with ease I can see why a horse track related theory might gain momentum. McDonogh (clock boy and negative space left and right of clock spliced together to make the shape of the McDonogh statue) = provider of schools for children Margaret Haughery (clock hand has layout of grounds at Margaret statue location) = worked with the poor, the hungry, and orphans, she also had some orphanages built, one of which was at 1314 Napoleon Ave., the Daughters of Charity was there until 1989. I'm leaning towards the idea that one of the stone benches out front of that 1314 building is our 'Giant Step'...but I'm also thinking about a playground with a seesaw or teeter totter as an idea based on 'riding' and 'for children' and the way its motion resembles the motion of certain clock jewels.

Near ace is high, Is this read as "near King"?

I'm very inspired by this verse tonight. Running north, but first across seems like a perfect line to describe the Golden Gate Bridge itself since it is perpetually the first across and runs north.  Wherever this site is, it MUST have a view of the bridge. The Twain reference is namesake of 'TWO', or the second mark on a water depth measure that equals the proper 2 fathom depth for safe steamboat travel.  The best two thing reference I can find in the area is the Twin Peaks and they do have a place of "meeting" since they are side by side with a small saddle shaped lot between.  The best fit for High posts are three is the Sutro Tower as it is high and has three monstrous posts. EDIT; maltedF already suggested Sutro way way back in the thread...i'm just reviewing it again now.  Education and Justice is broad..schools and police station are within view. Near Ace is high could very possibly be the number 14, since the high ace is one better than the King which is the next highest at 13.  Aces are also 11 if you are going the Blackjack route, but in Poker, the preferred standard, it's a 14.  Looking for a spot where the Sutro Tower, Golden Gate Bridge, Twin Peaks and the number 14 might all converge as a view, I am left with Grand View Park which is bounded by 14th ave on one side.  Note, 14th ave is on the side which faces Sutro and Twins. This has to be where MaltedF is headed.

much Angst here. I have contacted the SF Parks and Rec Dept and asked them about the Giant Pole and No response yet (of course it is a holiday) but I also contacted a historical society and they said "No one knows when it was removed or what happened to it." Again I have got a picture of the areas from the 30's and it is there I have a picture of the area from the 90s and it is not. and I have a picture that just from the coloring was taken anytime between the 60s and the 90s and it is not. I am quite bummed. This is a perfect example of the kind of information that is just not on the internet anywhere.

maltedfalcon wrote:: much Angst here. I have contacted the SF Parks and Rec Dept and asked them about the Giant Pole and No response yet (of course it is a holiday) but I also contacted a historical society and they said "No one knows when it was removed or what happened to it." Again I have got a picture of the areas from the 30's and it is there I have a picture of the area from the 90s and it is not. and I have a picture that just from the coloring was taken anytime between the 60s and the 90s and it is not. I am quite bummed. This is a perfect example of the kind of information that is just not on the internet anywhere. Well, there is still some info available. Try google with 'dudley carter goddess of the forest' and there's a pdf (WAG_96_schniewind.pdf) with some details.  Also, I see a page by Gary Trent who claims Carter was his great uncle and there's a picture of the sculpture in GG park circa 1975.  The caption for the photo says: "The Goddess of the Forest in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco, circa 1975. Its original height was roughly equal to that of a three-story house with a flat roof. Carter had specified that the sculpture be set on blocks to provide for air circulation at the base. However, it was set squarely on a concrete pedestal, This allowed rain water to collect at the base making ideal conditions for decay. Dudley Carter inspected the Goddess in 1983 and foundextensive decay, In the spring of 1991 the sculpture was moved into the lobby of the Little Theater in front of the Diego Rivera mural, where it was placed flat on its back so that work could begin on the repair."

Different Pole. I am 100% confident the Goddess of the forest has nothing to do with this hunt

treasurefindingfamily wrote:: ... At stone walls door: Stone wall by Fort Mason ... I just made this connection where "mason" = "stone wall".  I think looking for a specific wall or door is taking this too literal.  It is enough to just use the vicinity of Fort Mason as the beginning of the path.

Sounds from the sky Worked on this riddle a bit today.  I noticed the word "Cloud" (sky) contains the word "loud" (sounds), but that didn't hit on anything. Then I thought about the word "Masonic" which contains the word "sonic" (sound) and the word "Ma" in Japanese is essentially "space" (sky).  Hmm, there is a road named Masonic.

So if I combine 'sounds from the sky' with 'near ace is high' to get MaSONIC and 14th, I find myself in an area near the base of Buena Vista in San Francisco.  Where to next, I wonder? For all to see, For all = public To = two = twin = twain? See = peek = peak?

Interesting. But show me in Chicago or Cleveland how combining lines/words from the verses. became hints for totally different words that equated to street  names or areas. The Chicago Treasure was in Grant Park, which lines from Verse 12 hint at that location or street name? Like I said, Interesting but I think totally useless for solving the casque location. When you get right down to it there was nothing vague about any of the verse lines The two found verses are a simple step by step walk to the casque, from the location provided by the image. Without the image to get you to your starting place, the verses are pretty much useless. It is really an elegantly designed treasure hunt. Unless you get lucky and find the actual spot the image hands over to the verse. Lincolns shoulder, Two columns, StoneWalls door, It's hopeless. Verse 7 actually tells you the Barred Window, is not Window, Its a door.  So where is your Door?

Madness!  I believe you, these riddles are unforgiving unless you find that starting place. Edit; I'll work on squeezing the verse less and looking at more tangible aspects.  I do have to say then Verse 4 line about "free speech" is indicative of Liberty Blvd. and thus an example to argue in favor of tricky word usages.  Masonic is truly inspired, and I can't quite let it go...stone wall is rich with possibility. How about 'sounds from the sky' meaning the color BLUE?  "Sounds" are waves which propagate physically through the matter contained in air.  Light is also a wave, however it has electromagnetic properties and propagates as energy through space.  In terms of visual characteristics, the sound of the sky might be a sneaky way of suggesting it's color.

high posts... hmm... makes me wonder the last time i put on my sneakers , grabbed a ball, and threw some 'bows. how far is "not far away"? less than about a mile? and/or within view?

I'm beginning to like my current path, start at Exploratorium, east on Bay St. and then turn down Columbus towards the Transamerica Pyramid which has three points when viewed from the Columbus angle.  It must be the high post are three.

why would you start at the exploratorium based on the image? -- oh I see now from your comment in the image 1 messages.

Yes, I'm testing a theory based on the sleeves as the iconic image.  I am slowly getting on board with the picture trail.  Cement doors?  I was thinking more the wall as stone. Maybe sounds from the sky is a reference to a flying dragon...the Asian style dragon has a sinusoidal shape like a sound wave.

sorry I meant the walls are made of cement, (the large rectangular door frame in the picture) the doors are metal.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Not far away High posts are three From pretty much anywhere in GG park and SF you can see Sutro Tower which is a three masted radio/tv tower Might we also consider the basket ball court with two posts, each having a 3-point line? Again I'm taking a selective approach through word formations that might not really be there, but in the spirit of good ol' riddling check this out: For all to see , how about "amid" + "peer" or "pyramid".  Does "in the middle of" equate to "for all" and "peer" = "to see"?

so my Image 1 picture path takes me to Lincoln park. My choice for a verse here is Verse 7  But it is predicated on there being a Giant Pole here. The good news is: At one time the tallest flag pole on the west coast sat right here. The Betsy Ross Memorial Flag Pole, the Bad news is I cannot find when it was removed. If the flagpole was here in 1980-81 then verse 7 fits here easily. every single line. from justice to twain to high points, its all right here. Can you figure it out? I am going digging next week, (working on getting permission now)

The overall outline of the image fits the shape of the plot adjacent NE of fountain circle (tabletop?).

you mean her head right?

No, I retract that.  Didn't know the lot had been revamped many times. I also retract five confirmers...i only see a few.  I see the Joan of Arc back in play as Twain's object.

From aerial photos available through Google Earth, the pole *appears* to have been there at least through August, 1993. The steel sculpture "Pax Jerusalem" was put there in 1999. That would certainly qualify as a giant pole! Now... giant step?

Well that would be good news indeed.  here is my interpretation From Stone Walls door The Air Smells sweet. (The palace of the legion of honor built by Alma Spreckels, the sugar magnate's wife. , Stone Walls door is also the barred window, do you see it ? Not far away high points are three... (the lamp posts in the area are all the triple topped ones., but sutro tower is in clear view of the palace. Education and Justice for all to see The statue of El Cid. (which is also a site confirmer picture in image 1 In Jewels direction is an object of Twains Attention. This might be controversial. If you stand where the flag pole was and look around, you are mostly surrounded by rolling hills and trees. In only one direction you have a view of Downtown San Francisco. Downtown SF is the object of twains attention. Giant Pole, The Betsy Ross Memorial flage pole. Giant step, From the flagpole go straight toward the View of SF you will cross the parking lot and run into a balustrade, over the balustrade it is a 10 foot drop to the ground. (it also lines up with the Seaman's memorial) Thats where its buried.

land is administrated by the SF Dept of parks and recreation. It is on the Licoln Park Golf Course and it used to be a cemetary. Making it difficult, but not impossible to get permission to dig.

forest_blight wrote:: From aerial photos available through Google Earth, the pole *appears* to have been there at least through August, 1993. Actually thats my big problem Google Earth has a 1987 image and a 1946 image. by 1987 the flagpole is gone. and there are cars parked in that spot.

malted, I'm looking at the same photo you are (1987), and I interpret the white blob as an unfurled flag, not a car.

Try hxxp://www.historicaerials.com/ for some alternate years.  1980 in SF is available. I would argue that the Cliff House is Twain's attention.  Cliffs are prominent in the image. I don't recognize anything El Cid yet in image 1.  Is it wordplay where "air smells sweet" means "heiress of sugar"?

argue all you want, but cliff house from the flag pole does not take you to a giant step or even a little one it takes you to the palace. and you cant see the cliff house from the pole. actually the plaque in the palace doorway states built by alma de brettville, spreckles and then talks about spreckles sugar I sure hopes it a flag!

I don't see a barred window yet, I thought the main arch with columns in the background simulated the look of a barred gate.

Interesting theory indeed falcon.  So, according to your calculations, the dig site will be right near where this pic is taken from....perhaps a few steps backwards.... Could our watch pedestal simply be the inverted version of the Memorial seen in the above pic? (sorry the pic is so big....scroll across on the bottom of this post and you can clearly see the memorial) Standing where the flagpole once stood, and looking back over the fountain you get this great view of the Legion of Honor. Is the arched doorway with the columns seen through it your "barred window"? I'm liking this location A LOT....but then again, you had me sold on your GGP theory as well Falcon  ::) Best of luck on your dig my friend........let's get us the 3rd!!!!!

Here is the reversed view of the possible dig site showing the Giant step over the balustrade from the parking lot.  Maybe the balustrades themselves are our watch pedestal?  I really like this area!!! Dig it up Falcon!

Education [and Justice For all] to see Must be aimed at focusing on the Betsy Ross, a reminder of the days when I would do the Pledge of Alleiance in grade school. Looks like you'll stand at a specific spot and dig in the direction of Twain's attention on a Ledge?

education and justice read about el cid

El Cid = "the" + "lord" when translated into its roots.  Does this resonate with Bowman's addition to the Ledge of Alliegence of adding  "under God"?

I would rationalize the Japanese influence on the image as a reference to the memorial for the first naval landing of Japan which is nearby, not sure exactly, what do you think?

its not japanese at all its chinese and san francisco and chinese goes together like sourdough bread and butter

No way, its Japanese with lil' bit of Chinese thrown in for good measure.  More of Rye and butter.  Im confident in your iconic and general area discoveries, and i think you might have your hands on a casque someday, but there are some nitty gritty things to cover still..at least for me there are several options despite no giant pole being there now. How many holes is that course?  Which is the 14th hole? Okay, this is interesting, near Ace is high says to me "Near 14" and the 15th hole happens to be the hole directly between the Giant Pole and the view of Golden Gate Bridge running north and across the bay.  The number 15 is certainly near 14. sounds from the sky has me curious.

I believe its the 7th its chinese have you read the book? seagulls - constantly

hxxp://www.lincolnparkgc.com/Lincoln_Pa ... ecard.html It is 15.  No, I havent read the book.  ..so, maybe it is Chinese.  The dragon and yinyang pretty much force the issue...I still like rye tho.

On the golf course you might hear a small white orb whistling in your direction and someone yelling "FORE!" recommending you to duck or "look ahead." I have a hard time going with seagulls as our answer for sounds from the sky .  Seagulls does little to tell point or differentiate that we must look for a coast area vs inland.  If the case were to point us to the worlds most significant bird sanctuary I might buy it. Fore, golf etiquette, tells us to "look ahead" and has something to do with the sky and sound...is there anything more appropriate for this situation? Good luck!

have you ever been to lands end? More than any other part of SF Lands end has a constant breeze across it. Enough that all the trees are permanently misshapen and bent windward. The wind across the bluffs makes for a permanent wave of air that is filled with seagulls catching a free ride. The only place it is nosier with seagulls is fisherman's wharf. As somebody from the bay area- seagulls for me has always been the goto for sounds from the sky. Its always there day or night.

Not i, but my wife has and agrees with you, big suprise, she has pictures of the area too...nothing helful to us, 2000. If seagull noise is the signature characteristic of the sky in that area then i dont really see the reason for BP to dedicate a line so innocently to something which is easiily assumed.  Not to be stubborn, but you do see the golf reference as helpful, don't you?  In the case of this verse there might be a more linear layout than usual, first door/sweet (where specifically is the plaque?), then Thinker (Education), then Flagpole ("Justice For All" -Pledge of Allegiance), then 15th hole (Near Ace is high "14"), then golf etiquette's "fore!" (Sounds from the sky) intstructing us to keep the line and go straight ahead in a straight line. The hairline of the woman's forehead looks a lot like the trail segment in on the golf course.

hairline looks like fort point /golden gate. Flagpole - justice for all = great catch!! Education  is more the ElCid statue then the thinker.  El Cid was known for getting educated and then becoming a great lord. I dont see the golf ref. Aces High running north but first accross - is a perfect fit for Highway 1 going north over the golden gate - its only a few blocks away. Near Aces High would be 22 or 20  other wise it would be near king... Fore = duck not go straight ahead... Usually when you yell fore you sliced or hooked your ball so definitely not straight ahead.

In 21 or blackjack the ace is 21 when high.  In poker, the card playing standard it is 14 when high. I just read "look ahead" in the wiki on fore.

erexere wrote:: No, I havent read the book. You ought to, it was one of BP pet peeves... hxxp://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... ition=used less then 6 bucks shipped.

okay okay, I'll buy it...after you find a casque.

erexere wrote:: In 21 or blackjack the ace is 21 when high.  In poker, the card playing standard it is 14 when high. I just read "look ahead" in the wiki on fore. The ace is not 21. A FACE card and an ACE equal 21 when played together in blackjack. But the ACE never -- ever -- equals more than 11.

Yeah, 11 is right!  Maybe it's near the 12th hole instead.  I doubt it's near the 11th hole, because you can't see the front gate that far off to the side.  Wow, there must be a lot of lost golf balls in that shrubbery near the parking lot.  Cars must be crazy to park around there, they'd get dinged good if I was on the course.

shecrab wrote:: The ace is not 21. A FACE card and an ACE equal 21 when played together in blackjack. But the ACE never -- ever -- equals more than 11. doh! you are correct. - however I am ignoring this whole thing since I think it is highway 1 and for the purposes of my solution doesnt matter. Hi Shecrab! how did nanowrimo go this year?

Unknown: "Fore" is another word for "ahead" (think of a ship's fore and aft). Yelling "fore" is simply a shorter way to yell "watch out ahead" (or "watch out before"). It allows golfers to be forewarned, in other words. on the golf's "fore!", from a golf wiki faq thingy,

"FOUR OF A KIND" — 142 Throckmorton Theatre, 142 Throckmorton Ave., Mill Valley; 383-9600; www.142throckmortontheatre.org . Dec. 4: Ruth Stotter's play imagines an 1888 poker game between four notable Sams — Brannan, Hall, Hill and Clemens (better known as Mark Twain). 3 p.m. $12. LOL!

If it is verse 7, it would solve without any actual golf reference. Dont make this more difficult that it needs to be. To get this far I have been trying to simplify the hunt down to the very basic steps. I think I have and I believe it will lead me to a casque.

It's good sportsmanship not to pick up lost balls while they are still rolling. Golf is a good walk spoiled. -mark twain

Hirudiniforme wrote:: It's good sportsmanship not to pick up lost balls while they are still rolling. Golf is a good walk spoiled. . Maybe BP buried a bucket of balls with the casque. Twain often wrote about etiquette.

i wish he had buried the jewels with the casques, but oh well

maltedfalcon wrote:: If it is verse 7, it would solve without any actual golf reference. Dont make this more difficult that it needs to be. To get this far I have been trying to simplify the hunt down to the very basic steps. I think I have and I believe it will lead me to a casque.

Unknown: Hi Shecrab! how did nanowrimo go this year? Very well! Got to my 50K word goal on Nov. 19.  My book is still not finished, however. It ran into some difficulty when one of my main characters decided to die on me--and turned it into a sort of sentimental down-hill slide. I have to fix that, so I'm still working on it. Thanks for asking!!

Does this verse fit with image 1 describe at least one of three points needed to locate a point reference?  GG bridge?  The Betsy Ross pole?  The El Cid Statue? Image 1 seems to give us a lamp post and surely the archway entrance to the Legion of Honor.  The Fountain too.  Everything else looks general to the region.

I dont understand the first part of your question, it seems almost nothing in the verses shows up in the images. Actually I dont believe the shadow under the table is a lamp post or lamp post base. I have compared it to every kind of lamp post and lamp post base I could find in San Francisco Nothing is an exact match. The closest thing I found was a police box, but it was too wide, almost right shape though. I was wondering if it was possibly the base of the flag pole. but I found a picture of that and it isnt. however the door, fountain, El Cid, Shape of the parking lot and the fork in the path that you found are all exact matches to objects in image 1.

I seem to remember Fox thinking the balustrade of the railing look more like the table base . How about a flag theme, maybe the word FLAG = GALF (sounds like "golf".  It fits the reversal mirror context encountered in the 'Gh' and the '34'.

maltedfalcon wrote:: El Cid, Shape of the parking lot and the fork in the path that you found are all exact matches to objects in image 1. maltedfalcon wrote:: Are you talking about this? An exact match? You've got to be kidding.

Is that a flag or a spear in El Cid's hand?

yep thats it. along with the barred door, Fountain table top The Shape of the Parking lot the Fork in the Path and the Head of Lincoln for Lincoln Park I beleive it is an exact match - note the horse tale the, hindquarters the arch of the el Cids back Yet even if you choose to disregard that site confirmer. Any three of the other 5 would be enough to clinch it. oh and of course the golf balls.

erexere wrote:: Is that a flag or a spear in El Cid's hand? That would be a penant on a spear

erexere wrote:: maybe the word FLAG = GALF (sounds like "golf".) wound't that be galf (sounds like calf)?

maltedfalcon wrote:: wound't that be galf (sounds like calf)? How about Gandalf, Gan-Dolph?  Maybe you're thinking of a Boston accent... Hey, El Cid looks like a buff version of Ponce in image 6!

All this time and this is the 1st I have heard of (and seen) this El Cid Statue? I like it.  The hindquarters and tail and the way of the "bean shaped" (for lack of better words) thorax....nice. Is this another casque that met a premature death? There sure are a lot of visual confirmers around this site...maybe we (technically you) just have the exact dig locale off?  Let's do some more work on this theory guys it looks very promising.

I do not believe it is gone, I beleve I A: Didnt dig deep enough Its possible soil had been added in the area. B: Didnt find the correct object of Twains Attention. C: Don't have the correct Giant Step. or its not Verse 7...

Unknown: or its not Verse 7... BINGO.

When faced with a very difficult problem where one thinks, thinks, and thinks some more, but still doesn't get anywhere, can it be said they have "hit a brick or stone wall?"

Im open for suggestions what is the correct verse if its not 7

erexere wrote:: When faced with a very difficult problem where one thinks, thinks, and thinks some more, but still doesn't get anywhere, can it be said they have "hit a brick or stone wall?" I think Rodin's THINKER's archway is stone wall's door.

yes that was what we had said before the barred archway is stone walls door.

shecrab wrote:: BINGO. I'm still baffled that people can subscribe to the theory of the casque being in a specific location without being able to agree on the verse. Doesn't that make them kind of redundant? It would be like going to New Orleans and digging trenches in Lafayette Park, Louis Armstrong Park and City Park based on elaborate speculation about the image and possible matches, and worry about the verse later. Alternatively, you could start in New Orleans with this same verse, and it would lead you directly to the spot, like this .

Personally, I believe verse 7 matches up with Image 12 in New York--at the tip of Manhattan Island.

Well, at least there's one thing we agree on...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I'm still baffled that people can subscribe to the theory of the casque being in a specific location without being able to agree on the verse. Doesn't that make them kind of redundant? Not sure what you mean, Using image one alone, I am sure it is in san francisco, and then I am also sure it is somewhere around the Palace of the legion of honor. but I have no idea which verse to use (although I suspect 7), I will check all 10 for possibilites.

Malted, I have a much refined point of view to offer.  I think the Betsy Ross pole position is critical. The object of Twains attention is his PEN.  Alcatraz is a "PEN". Oh, how I love that answer, given that Twain was more of a pen person than a typewriter user. I have a new idea, "Running north, but first across".  Abraham Lincoln "ran" the North if we consider the Union/Confederate divisions of North vs South.  In terms of being first across where Mark Twain is concerned, Lincoln floated down the Mississippi first on a flat boat to New Orleans.  Another fascinating idea which includes the Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole is the reference from 1948 where Louis Bowman was inspired by Lincoln's use of "under God" in the Gettysburg Address and so he inserted the words into the Pledge of Allegiance.  These ideas pointing to Lincoln has great meaning since the Terminus marker for the Lincoln Memorial Highway was planted just to the south east side of the large step where the Three Shades statues once stood overlooking the 15th hole of the Lincoln Park Golf Course. Perhaps the real answer to the object of Twain's attention is "Abraham Lincoln".

erexere wrote:: I'm a little distracted at the moment, but maybe later someone will same me the trouble of going back through the thread.  I'm looking for associations to nursery rhyme or children's stories. Giant Pole Giant Step I wondered if this is a clue about a fairytale Giant, like the one in Jack and the Beanstalk. I'm sure someone must have suggested this before, but... Jack and the Beanstalk at Storyland...? (If it was there at the time.) It has the lines coming from the hand and foot, and the giant's face is underneath. Just a thought.

WR, good to see you take a stab at it once in awhile.  Just for your information, I'm no longer guessing on anything associated with Image 7, because I'm 100% certain of it and Verse 2, and the Rouelle Family Tomb marker pointing directly into the center of four Palm trees planted in a rectangle on Basin Street. Now I believe Verse 7 and Image 1 work for the the Betsy Ross Flagpole and Lincoln markers which wee both missing, including the base to The Shades, all being there in 1981.  What I found especially fitting is Pole, Lincoln, and Alcatraz all fit on a straight line when looking at a map.  I just did this by hand with a ruler.  I think we have a winner, but I haven't heard yet from Maltedfalcon if he dug on that exact spot.  It's very difficult given that those damn markers are missing.

Running north, but first across = draw a vertical line, draw a small horizontal line extending from the base of the vertical line = the letter L. Who "ran the north" in the Civil War? What is this object?  Not there now, but one just like it was located just to the right of a large step in front of the very large Betsy Ross Memorial flag pole in the parking lot of the Palace of the Legion of Honor in 1982.

Actually, the first across makes a line horizontal and then without lifting the pen switch to making the vertical line to create a reversed L.  Image 1 has two specific mirrorings with the "G h" and the reverse of the southern portion of the Goldengate bridge.

I have hammered on this new idea for a couple days and I'm so use to believing in crappy ideas that I can barely see the difference when I encounter a decent possibilty. Does it work to say a great writer would consider the object of his attention to be his writing utensil?  I think it works perfectly.  Does it work to call a prison a "pen"?  I think so.  This is a neat solution to the Twain riddle.  How does "running north, but first across" reflect writing letter characters?  We draw a vertical line and then cross with a horizontal stroke to make a T.  We usually draw an L by drawing a vertical line starting at the top and then across to the right to make the small horizontal at the bottom, but if we are doing it in reverse we first do the bottom and then finish the vertical line with an upward or "north running" stroke.  I'm sold on the simplicty and cleverness of this idea. Moving on to the "Giant pole", I'm really sold on the Pledge of Allegiance requirement in many schools (education), ...and Justice for all.  We have a few lines of verse pointing to the Betsy Ross Memorial flag pole for the reason that it is greatly significant.  The same constraint applies to the "Giant step" only this is more cryptic.  Running north but first across fits the reverse writing of the letter L, but also a bold reference to the Union leader, President Lincoln, who "ran the north" in the dispute with the south confederacy over one of the biggest issues in our history:  slavery, rather the Emancipation Proclamation, which I think is the "Giant step".  In essence, BP is devoting a few good lines of verse to Abraham Lincoln for a reason, which is to recognize a marker, which fits perfectly with the Palace of the Legion of Honor parking lot.  What's amazing but also difficult to show is how a straight line ties these elements together:  pole, step, pen as Betsy Ross memorial flag pole, Lincoln memorial highway marker, and Alcatraz.

erexere wrote:: Does it work to say a great writer would consider the object of his attention to be his writing utensil?  I think it works perfectly.  Does it work to call a prison a "pen"?  I think so.  This is a neat solution to the Twain riddle. Its possible, however Alcatraz is not visible from the Lincoln park.  Yet Fort Point, a place Twain wrote about is. The fact that it is not visible, drops it into the vague realm of possibilities that are all things Twain. Arguably you can pick any of 360 degrees from The Betsy Ross Flag pole and find something Mark Twain related. All with equal weight. Limit it to what you can see, there are 2, San Francisco itself (which  is framed in a valley off to the southeast) and Ft Point Which is directly in a line along the Gateway-to the flagpole to Fort Point.

erexere wrote:: Running north, but first across = draw a vertical line, draw a small horizontal line extending from the base of the vertical line = the letter L. I like this alot.

Not having line of sight on Alcatraz bothers me to a degree, but then an ideal location to view it also coresponds with the Gh sign near Russian Hill really proves the point for connecting the dots.

yeah well, I don't believe the Ghirardelli s  sign is involved at all.  The GH references the Great Highway west of GGpark. Arbitrarily picking sites around the city doesn't fit in with the found methodology.

I've come to know only two options in San Francisco for "at stonewalls door the air smells sweet".  The Ghiraddeli location viewing Alcatraz and the Palace arch with the Spreckles plaque, the more imaginative option. There have been "far offs" in the found solutions...  The start of a path and the end have a cutting separation.  Finding a thematic link seems necessary.

Ghirardelli is made of brick and Alcatraz is made of cement. neither has stone walls. which location fits stone walls door? however the gateway at the palace is granite.

The first line doesn't seem as direct as those which follow.  The strongest markers would seem to be giant pole and giant step.  Stonewalls door seems like a good direct reference, but I'm more inclined by its position in the verse to think its generalized to a large area.  What kind of door is in a stone wall?  Seems any style door would do, a gateway or archway can also fit.  Given the Lat/Long we are left with the question of what kinds of doors are associated with the general area of San Francisco?  This may be the edge where things arbitrary transition to a very specific detail (call it step 3), which I think must be the Japanese Tea Garden.  Step 3 in Chicago was the Water Tower, in Cleveland the columns of the Greek Cultural Gardens, both the largest picture element of the image.  Steps 1 and 2 are more about pairing the first line from verse and Lat/Long from image to assert a general location.  The shape of a state or a prominent visual feature like a water tower or "giant tree like" feature is what puts us on the fairfolks trail.  Is there a preferable "gate" element to the general area of San Francisco?  GoldenGATE?  I think we have to look at where a road along the path of Tea Garden path takes us.

erexere wrote:: , which I think must be the Japanese Tea Garden.  Step 3 in Chicago was the Water Tower, in Cleveland the columns of the Greek Cultural Gardens, both the largest picture element of the image. how possibly do you get the Japanese Tea Garden. 1. The theme of the image is chinese not japanese 2. The largest element in the image is Golden Gate Park 3. The second largest element in the image is the Lincoln park parking lot. 4. Equating gate and door is a stretch unless you use the barred window image to match to the gate of the palace of fine arts. 5. Sure the tea garden is in GGpark but so are hundreds of other features. why choose the tea garden over them. There is no reason to. I don't understand your last two statements at all, your leap to looking for a gate is illogical by your logic you should be looking for a door and then you want to look along the path of the the tea garden, when demonstrably the tea garden has nothing to do with this search.

I see my logic deserved a good healthy shredding.  I'll  will have to more thinking and in it.

Good critique maltedfalcon.  I was overtired when I strung together those last thoughts.  The tea garden doesn't fit at all. All five points are correct.

Was just reading about Alcatraz and learned it is indeed properly called a Federal Penitentiary.  My deduction of the "secret" link between Twain and this landmark as a PEN just moved up a notch.

while technically true, In the bay area Alcatraz was never called the "Pen" it was called the "Rock" San Quentin is a California state Prison nearby, It is not a penitentiary, It is called the "Q" Actually I believe the "Pen" specifically refers to a prison, in Ohio (but I could be wrong there) my point being, prisons have nicknames, but the Pen was never associated with Alcatraz.

Youve offered some good perspective.  At first I thought you missed the point.  The Ohio reference is worth a moment of head scratching, but all I was going for was whether Alcatraz checks out as a penitentiary.  Calling it a colloquial pen fits the style of Twain.  I'm not looking at the term as a nickname to compete with the well known nick The Rock. So malted, are you willing to have a go at this spot?

Wait, which spot are you talking about? If you have indicated a casque location, I have missed it.

Sorry, I've been lazy.  Here's what I have constructed in my mental perspective.  It draws greatly from this old photo which highlights the pole and L-marker.  Below I've combined some aerials (no rotation, all top/north) to show how a line pointing in the direction of Alcatraz from the Legion of Honor parking lot compares to the line drawn from the pole through the L-marker.  It's not exact as I had hoped, but then I'm just estimating.  I think it's pretty clear that the direction of both lines is northeast.  What I think matters most is figuring out that the spot to dig (red triangle) is just over the balustrade at a place which lines up the pole and L-marker exactly.  Take a look, The table stand looks very similar to the balustrade, but isn't exact.  The little variation could be a major game changer or just a trick of the artist.  Either way, I'm thinking the alignment of the two markers, flag pole and Lincoln marker makes for a simple approach if just climbing around to the dirt side of the wall is what is meant by giant step and then the baluster shape of the table lamp is similar in function to the Chicago fence and Cleveland wall sketches.

just for fun... hxxp://www.mediafire.com/view/?8bad3ya1ajnydv9 --  best viewed at 130%. i am not proposing a solution by any means, but just musing. obviously, many connections are not discussed. *fixed

Hey four21, your file isn't producing anything, can you upload again please?

Just to clarify if going straight out  from the gate through the flag pole to the balustrade and then down to the dirt, is the 12 oclock position. (the very tip of the ladys head.)  I have dug from 11 oclock position to the 2 o clock position along the base of the parking lot. That encompasses your location and also is in line with SF as the object of Twains attention.

Damn.  Really??  I think im starting to get how strong your focus has had to be on this particular effort.  Thanks for putting up with my off path ideas.  Don't know what is going on with this one. Ok.  I have to look at this with every ounce of focus.  Its way to easy to get excited and then fall short.  And i know where I must be falling short.  I have no doubt the dooe is the Palace gate and the giant pole is the Betsy Ross described additionally with the Pledge.  I think the text that follows the line with jewels direction is an afterthought or summary.  We have to really get what a giant step is.   I mustve been hung up on the Lncoln marker.  Running North isba good description for Lincoln, could be the road which needs to be crossed.  The sounds from the sky near ace is high could be acrss the golf course as well.  So...what about thse benches on the other side of the El Camino?  That chinese memorial stone that's tall and rectangular might figure in some how.  Fireworks are noises from the sky...Chinese origin?

Sounds from the sky pretty much has to be seaguls. they are everywhere and very noisy  The use the wind coming up the seaclifs to soar so they are always above lincoln park Ace is high - Lincoln park is near highway one. It is about a 4-6 foot drop (depending on where you jump) from the balustrade to the ground.  so in the picture above with the arial shot of the parking lot and the lincoln highway marker in yellow the small red triangle is about a 5 foot drop to the ground. Its not chinese Its a monument to seamen, I think specifically the merchant marine but I could be mistaken on the particulars. The monument to that was next to the lincoln highway marker could concievably be considered a Giant step as it was shaped on the end like a giant stairway, but I dont know if it was there in the 1980-81 time frame.  Certainly if it was then the location of the casque would have been at the 12:00 position as it would be the first dirt you came to in line with the giant pole giant step... I plan to go back and dig deeper in that area.

How deep did you dig th first time?

3 feet, but it was afterwards I found out that they had added dirt in that area.

It's staggering to consider the obstacles to finding this casque after so much has been altered at this site.  What you're saying is it could be 5 or 6 feet deep at this point?  You might as well install a quick-tent canopy to keep the bird crap off of you while you dig for 2-3 days.

yes that is what I am saying

Nothing new here, just rewriting a summary of my view: The Pledge of Allegiance ends with the words “..with Education and Justice for all,” which matches the words of lines 5 and 6 as indication that there is a US Flag involved.  The proposed site of the Palace of the Legion of Honor makes a good fit as the then location of the Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole.  The tops of the triple-masted light posts match exactly the top of the watch on the table in the picture.  Near ace is high, offers a few options: in cards the Ace high beats the King, which is numerically considered the number 13 and implying the Ace is 14, thus the line could be “near 14” which might have something to do with the golf course adjacent to the Palace, but also the King is near the Ace, thus the number 13 could be the answer, or a the simple alternative of the letter K, being nearest Ace-high gives us “Near the letter K” which in turn could point to the next letter in the alphabet, “L”.  The pen strokes of “running north” and “first across” might indicate making the letter 'L'.  The letter 'L' appears on the markers for the Lincoln Memorial Highway.  The site of the Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole is also the western terminus of the Lincoln Memorial Highway.  The object of Twain's attention is a riddle.  Twain is a nom de plume or “pen name” for writer Samuel Clemens.  The object of his attention is his “pen”.  This object is in jewel's direction.  This is a clever reference to Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary (Pen).  Looking at a simple road map one can see the locations of the Palace of the Legion of Honor and Alcatraz (a place of dishonor? The duality of honor and dishonor as a Yin and Yang?).  This line helps indicate that when standing at the giant flag pole and looking in the direction of Alcatraz (no line of sight from that spot, but use of map helps see the direction to go in) it lines up almost perfectly with the final terminus marker for the Lincoln Memorial Highway.  Sadly, the flagpole has since been removed and the terminus marker has been lost, replaced, and relocated.  I believe the intended location for this casque is found by following this line from the flagpole to the “L” terminus marker and directly over the balustrade at the base of the wall separating the parking lot from the golf course.

The Pledge of Alliegiance I remember didn't end that way.

Have any of you looked at the tiles that were uncovered on Sutro Heights recently (2012)?

Just looked it up - very cool!

very cool, I hope they cover them all up shortly otherwise they will be destroyed quickly

I just got word that the spot I've been considering would get a nice thorough examination by some outstanding young researchers.  Hopefully some close ups and pics from the right angle might reveal some indication of it being the right spot.  There must've been too little daylight left when they arrived.  Let's hope they pickup where they left off tomorrow morning.  It's always refreshing to know some folks are willing to lend a hand in the search. More news later. News update: trio of young experts abort mission in favor of extra time in Redwoods.

erexere wrote:: News update: trio of young experts abort mission in favor of extra time in Redwoods. Understandable, but disappointing. I would've liked to hear about a dig.

o.k. whos the carpenter A tiny addition in San Francisco’s Golden Gate Park is getting big attention on the Web. A photo on the neighborhood site Richmondsfblog.com first published a photo of a teeny wooden door that mysteriously appeared at the bottom of a tree with a small, gnome-sized gap. The door has opened up plenty of interest on the Internet—and spurred visitors to the urban oasis to explore the door that's not on any map. It can be found by searching for the grove of old trees in the park's concourse near the Golden Gate Band Shell between the de Young Museum and the California Academy of Sciences. vid at link hxxp://news.yahoo.com/blogs/sideshow/my ... 12844.html hxxp://richmondsfblog.com/2013/03/29/mi ... -coverage/

That's my pick for San Fran: 15 rows down to the ground (trees) in the center of 21 ( ) 3 stand watch (3 fountains) As the sound of friends (music concourse) Here are a sovereign people (homeless population here in the 80s) Namesakes meeting (golden gate bridge) Out of curiosity, anybody have an idea which tree it is?

The ground around those trees, is the equivalent hardness of concrete. You would need more than a shovel and it is in front of an art museum and Science museum that have 24 hour security and the area is lit all night. Even in the 80's somebody trying to dig a hole in that area would have been stopped. more importantly the ground would show fresh digging like a sore. and the grounds keepers in the area would have investigated and dug out the hole the next morning.

The first line:  At stone wall's door Initially it brings us to the Thinker statue at the Palace of the Legion of Honor.  Thinker, stuck in thought, epitomizes the idea of hitting a stone wall.  Whether his "door" is the arch of the Palace or the complete art piece titled The Gates of Hell, is still uncertain.  The Three Shades, also of The Gates of Hell where they would be posted at it's very top, were at one time standing on a tall pedastal at the end of the parking lot next to the terminus marker for the Lincoln Memorial Highway. Final sense of the first line is to return to the idea of where or what one does when they stop to do some serious thinking.  A bench.  I believe a bench which is facing the bay and the Golden Gate Bridge is where we will find the SF casque.

Cask 1 Verse 7 : Crazy San Francisco Theory (6/20/13) At stone wall's door Stone wall (idiom): We've run into a stone wall in our investigation.  Unable to solve a problem: The Thinker (sculpture). The air smells sweet "heir" "sugar" fits rather well with Alma Spreckels, heiress to a fortune from sugar plantation, friend of Rodin and placed his work at the Palace of the Legion of Honor. Not far away High posts are three Several triple-lamp posts line the curved portion of the parking lot that fits the curve around the woman's head, the very tops of the lamps are an exact match to the top of the watch on table, notice the new location for the terminus marker for the Lincoln Memorial Highway: Education and Justice For all to see “and justice for all.”: last four words of The Pledge of Allegiance, conceived to promote American nationalism to children in schools,  The Pledge's final four words are "and justice for all" and is performed while facing a flag. Sounds from the sky “Fore!”: golf term for “look ahead”. Near ace is high Ace (cards), alphabet version:  the letter A, if it's high, then it's considered one step greater than the king, the letter K, which is the letter L.  Ace high is one step higher in rank than the King, the letter K.  One letter beyond K is the letter L.  This line translates to "Near the letter L".  There happens to be a large letter L on the terminus marker for the Lincoln Memorial Highway inserted just next to the Three Shades sculpture.  Numeric version: A = 14, nearest numbers are 13 or 15.  The 15th hole on the golf course is just beyond the balustrade.  I prefer the Lincoln Marker solution. Running north, but first across The Golden Gate Bridge runs north across the bay and is itself first across. In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention Alcatraz Federal Penitentiary (Pen): Twain (pen-name) uses this object (pen) to write.  This is an instruction to use a map to set a course in the direction of the Pen. Giant pole Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. Keep in mind that sometime since 1981 the Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole has been replaced with a big red metal sculpture.  The Three Shades have been removed.  The Lincoln Highway marker has been moved a good distance to the edge of the lot.  All we can do is look at the few pictures we've been lucky enough to find and some crappy historic aerials to get a sense for their positions. A) The Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole B) Terminus Marker for the Lincoln Memorial Highway (original location) C) Alcatraz, the answer to the object of Twain's attention: a Pen (Penitentiary) I thought the first obvious spot would be just over the edge (giant step) and at the base of the wall beyond the parking lot.  Maltedfalcon has done real shoveling to confirm it's not the spot unless it's buried much deeper than we think.  I then thought, what in the verse tells us to follow that line to an obvious spot beyond the wall?  I thought "near ace is high" could be inspired by A=14 (one higher than a King in cards) and therefore the 15th hole could be thougth of as near 14.  Does that tell us to go onto the golf course grounds?  I'm unable to determine a spot on the course itself that draws me in to justify a dig.  I want to avoid the sense of it feeling too random.  I then consider to continue along that line until I bump into a novel looking site, which takes me to the bench on the road below the course.  At the bench we see the Golden Gate Bridge, which could be "Running north but first across".  The bench also fits my idea for the first line where at Stone wall's door sits The Thinker sculpture and I believe it becomes relevant when we have to sit down on something to think: a rock, a chair or a bench. I've made an adjustment to the angle I've been estimating based on taking an exact line to Alcatraz from the center of the spot where the Betsy Ross Flagpole use to be.  The area I think it puts us has this view: I like the curvy tree crossing over on itself, maybe it looks like the arms of the woman in the image.  Yes, I think I've found a convincing match.

It is possible, but most of the benches post-date 1981 as they are almost all memorials, ie this bench is placed in memory of john doe. They started doing that after the renovations (in which they took out the flagpole) The next time I am in SF I will look at this area and check out the placement date on the bench. of course that wouldn't preclude there being a bench there before.  But since all the new benches are on concrete slabs, that could be a problem. my concerns are you dont have a translation for Giant Step And Mark Twain never wrote about Alcatraz, (yes I get the "Pen") but in full view of the flagpole are 3 definite objects Mark Twain actually wrote about. (all closer than alcatraz) also the fact you cant see alcatraz from here. The biggest one is: from the bench where? in front, in back, leftside, rightside? This should solve to an exact spot to dig, not a general area around a bench.  If you mean under it , see the above text where I mention what the benches sit on. If you draw a line from the location of the flagpole to the left north point of Alcatraz  and you draw a line from the flagpole to the south point of alcatraz and then you look where it crosses the area of the bench it is a stripe 32 feet wide. (not exactly an exact spot)

I agree with all you've just said. I'd like think once you see the area in person and you consider the shape of the limbs as a possible match to the illustration then you'll just shuffle a little to the left and a little to the right to get a feel for dig dirt. Giant step, seems too hard to nail down.  Bench platforms are taller than a regular step, so that helps.  Given that we have post 1982 benches on top of paving, it does pose a problem if you feel that's the fit. I leave it to the person who knows the ins and outs of this hunt and gets a good first hand look at the site.

The line "education and justice" has me thinking of the word 'discipline'.  Its an interesting word in that it may refer to either education or punishment.

one thing to note. golf holes are not fixed. they are constantly moved around the green to keep the wear and tear down in any one spot. so you cant assume where the 15th hole is now is where it was in 1980

I saw somebody post this the other day and I thought it was an interesting interpretation. I wondered the likelihood that the verse was for a different place (i.e., not Montreal), but the verse would still read in the exact same direction/order as the statues on the QotW Cathedral. Might this have been purposefully done, or do you think it is coincidental, especially considering the pieces are running from R to L (or on a map, running south to north as the verse states)? Ace - the club is first Across - a cross is next Twain - then two people Pole - holding a pole Step - taking a step

A literary reference that's crept up as a remote possibility is Dante's Inferno.  In association with the Palace of the Legion of Honor and the art pieces belonging to Rodin's Gates of Hell.  The reason initially came together as a consideration that "high posts are three" had to do with the Three Shades sculpture next to the Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole.  I dont recall the date of when they were removed or whether it matters... There is a point in the Inferno where giants are involved.  Maybe there is some insight ilto be gained from Dante.

If verse 7 is applied to SF Then high points are three is almost assuredly sutro tower.  It is the highest point in the area and  has three points, in second place would be the lamp posts with three lamps on each. The lampposts do not fit though becuase there are 6-8 of them in the area which would make high posts are 18 or 24. The statue of the three shades does not fit because they aren high, (by any stretch of the imagination)  They would have been the lowest statues in the area, and a convoluted interpretation to say shades or fates = high, makes little sense. Aces High but first accross  = Highway 1 which crosses the GGPark and The golden gate.  It is definitely nearby. All this being said, It is likely verse 7 is to be used with image 1 for SF, but Since we have not ever been able to find the methodology to associate an image with a picture, Verse 7 might belong to another image, there is no way of telling besides using it for a successful hunt. @Hirudiniforme.  Its actually amazing how generic verse 7 is.  I was able to find an exact match for the verse using clues only found in ggpark, It was great, turned out it was wrong, but it was still great!

@MF - your only dig at the SF site was at the 12 o'clock position on the wall, correct? BTW - I was revisiting the triangle, square, square, circle on the neckline of I1... isn't that a scorecard in golf (hole-in-one, bogie, bogie, birdie)?

Cask 1 San Francisco - Reflection theory Lines 1 and 2, Rodan's Thinker, stuck on a problem at the door of the Palace of the Legion of Honor, heiress to sugar fortune or sweet cypress trees lining the roadways. Lines 3 and 4, triple lamp posts along the parking lot. Lines 5 and 6, Schools (Education) final four words of the Pledge of Allegiance, "and justice for all" to see [American flag = Betsy Ross] = BRMFP Line 7, Sounds from the sky = seagull = "seek-ull" = seek "L", Terminus marker of the Lincoln Memorial Highway Line 8, Near ace is high = 15th hole of Golf course Lines 9 and 10, Golden Gate Bridge Lines 11 and 12, "pen" = Alcatraz to the north east Lines 13 and 14, BRMFP + El Camino del Mar = L. Mare: broad, dark areas of the moon = sea.  Moon = "That's one small step for man, one giant L for mankind". Lines 15 and 16, place = placer = pleasing/easy = restful bench on which to sit in reflection, facing the Golden Gate Bridge and the sea. -- Notes: as with anything, it requires finding the right place to start.  It helps to find a way to avoid trapsing all over the city using up all you're interpretations on a route.  Instead look for a small condensed area which connects with the bulk of the verse.  Here it's about taking notice of the idiomatic and common phrase "at a stone wall" which connects with Rodin's Thinker who is locked in thought.  Identify the familiar words from you're old school days of saying the old Pledge.  Recognize the answer to the Twain riddle and starting from the entrance to the Palace, walk down to the parking lot past where the BRMFP and L marker once were located, through the golf course, and across the road to the bench.  The Ace has a numerical equivalent of 14 given that 10-J(11)-Q(12)-K(13)-A(?).  Near ace is high would be a number near 14.  Could be 12, 13, 15 or 16 depending on how you take the word "near" as it might mean just in the ball park instead of nearest. Visual elements are all very puzzling.  The moon is a clear symbol.  The dragon's pearl is symbolic of luck and protection.  I believe this resonates with some Classical Greek mythology if you're into the Iliad and Odyssey you might call attention to the Aegis of Athena aka Pallas (name derived from defeating the Giant) aka Minerva.  I might conclude that the giant pole/BRMFP is being utilized as a metaphor for Pallas' giant spear. "Round the vast Orb a hundred serpents roll'd." - Iliad p134.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: @MF - your only dig at the SF site was at the 12 o'clock position on the wall, correct? BTW - I was revisiting the triangle, square, square, circle on the neckline of I1... isn't that a scorecard in golf (hole-in-one, bogie, bogie, birdie)? indeed, i dont golf but cool Hole-In-One=TRIANGLE Eagle=DOUBLE CIRCLE Birdie=CIRCLE Par=Nothing Bogie=SQUARE Double Bogie=DOUBLE SQUARE Triple Bogie=TRIPLE SQUARE hxxp://www.tydaniels.com/how-to-mark-a-hole-in-one/

Hirudiniforme wrote:: @MF - your only dig at the SF site was at the 12 o'clock position on the wall, correct? BTW - I was revisiting the triangle, square, square, circle on the neckline of I1... isn't that a scorecard in golf (hole-in-one, bogie, bogie, birdie)? No 11:30 12:00 and 1:30 11:30 lines up with the golden gate 12:00 lines up with fort point and 1:30 lines up with downtown SF

So I have come to the conclusion that the San Francisco casque, is gone/ has been destroyed. The location of the casque (based on my interpretation of verse 7) was simply 1 giant step away from the Betsy Ross Flag pole. The verse has to have the function of quickly focusing in on a particular exact spot.  Based on the Cleveland/chicago. The Iconic image Golden Gate Park leads us straight up 34th street. (finger pointing)  the bust of lincoln indicates Lincoln park. Where we find the gated door in the side of the Palace of fine arts.  From this point we (in 1981) the Statue of El Cid. (Education and Justice) The Round table top (the fountain) The weird shape underneath the table (the Seamen's memorial on the golf course) or ( if it was there the lincoln Highway marker) in clear view is Highway 1 and Sutro tower. so.... At stone wall's door (the large gate in the Palace of the legion of honor) The air smells sweet (plaque at door indicated the Palace was built but by Alma Spreckles and her husband, Spreckles sugar) Not far away High posts are three  (Sutro Tower in plain site) Education and Justice  Statue of El Cid Just to your right For all to see Sounds from the sky  The air is filled always with seagulls (but more likely the flagpole, clanked in the wind) Near ace is high Running north, but first across  (Straight ahead is Highway 1 running across the Golden Gate) In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention  (Straight ahead is fort point) Giant pole              (put your back to the Betsy Ross Flagpole, facing Fort Point) Giant step              (take one giant step, Dig)  The Flagpole was surrounded, by a dirt circle, which would easily encompass one giant step. To the place The casque is kept.  (From this spot, You can see all the site confirmer images in Image 1. Table top, Pedestal, Barred Window, Golf balls, El Cid on his horse, Lincoln. Unfortunately, the flag and its surrounding dirt, was removed and a large garden planter was installed. At the very least the entire area was roto-tilled.  But I was told they used Bulldozers and Back-hoes, concrete foundations were put in to support the large Red Steel Modern art statue. The location of the casque would basically be directly under the center of the statue. The reason the casque could not be located over the railing and down the hill, is simple, The words giant step... in cleveland we were instructed to take several steps and then hop, (the planter to high to take a step to., Well over the railing is a 4-6 foot drop, not a giant step by any stretch of the imagination. If we were supposed to go over the railing it would say so, it doesn't by that point in the verse, we need to be focusing on an exact spot. any interpretation that widens our area of focus from there is obviously wrong. If your solution doesn't exactly indicate about 1 Sq foot on the ground, you probably haven't got the solution yet. Willhouse, I feel your pain....

Remind me what El Cid has to do with education and justice?

El Cid, (movie not withstanding) was a spanish hero while he was really high born, The local populace felt he was one of them. He was educated, which was not the norm for people in his position and then became a successful military leader He was known for dispensing justice evenly. Education and Justice = El Cid, anyway thats how I learned it in Spain.

from wikipedia Taken together, these practices imply an educated and intelligent commander who was able to attract and inspire good subordinates, and who would have attracted considerable loyalty from his followers, including those who were not Christian. It is these qualities, coupled with El Cid's legendary martial abilities, which have fueled his reputation as an outstanding battlefield commander. Long after his death, El Cid remains an idealised figure in Spain. He has been immortalized in plays, film, folk tales and songs. His reputation for justice, humanity and courage caused many Christian Spanish knights to follow him into exile and fight alongside him no matter which flag he was serving under

Why would Education and Justice be capitalized, if they were only describing personality traits? Sorry to hear about the casque being unreachable.

I don't see it that way.  The location along the roadway below with benches seems yet to be verfied. Trees are too young? No, written reports say they are much older 50+ years. I'm talking about a specific set of branches next to which is a severed stump.  The rings may be counted to give approximate verification. The benches are new?  Maybe they replaced older benches.  I dunno.  The idea that the Lands End was a place to go and sit and marv l at the sea beyond the cliffs is not new.  I would expect benches to have been in place long ago. The riddle: a pen.  A ballpoint?  A sphere/pearl point/end? A viewpoint?  Terminus marker = end of ink marker?  I hink there's an idea here, I'm just not sure how to frame it, but the first line "at stone wall's door" must have a next to literal meaning according to my recent adoption of constraints.  A stone bench that faces Golden Gate Bridge?

Egbert wrote:: Why would Education and Justice be capitalized, if they were only describing personality traits? Sorry to hear about the casque being unreachable.   :( Well I went with El Cid because the image was in the picture. however if you look to your left from the same spot you can see SF University which also has a big Law school and Law Library visible. Personally I like the El Cid though

erexere wrote:: I don't see it that way.  The location along the roadway below with benches seems yet to be verfied. Unfortunately there is nothing in the verse to indicate traveling there. I don't believe the verse implementation is that radically different from Chicago and Cleveland. Giant Pole Giant Step... Nothing about go down the hill, nothing about hop over the balustrade. Nothing about follow the slender path... Giant Pole, Giant Step... Its pretty cut and dried.

All that being said, There is nothing that ties the verse concretely to San Francisco. Like I've said before, this verse is generic enough to fit all kinds of places. For instance. in Montreal, Just up the hill from the legeater, is Redpath lane. Redpath is the name of the sugar magnate in that area of Canada, just like spreckles is in California. on the hill above Redpath Lane Mount Royal, is a huge 3 spired antenna just like sutro tower... and there were a bunch of other similarities. I'm afraid without a casque found in SF, we still have to consider this verse other places. I just cant find any other verse that fits Lincoln park. I wish we could figure out the methodology for associating verse with image, that would be a huge leap forward. I hate to think its just random.

Seven of the verses contain the word "step" and after researching Lookout Hill, which has 102 steps, I thought of San Francisco with Giant step as a clue. One of the large stairways is 153 steps from Baker Beach to Immigrant Point Overlook. It is in line with your Legion of Honor and Giant flagpole too! hxxp://www.communitywalk.com/san_franci ... map/399832

wk wrote:: Seven of the verses contain the word "step" and after researching Lookout Hill, which has 102 steps, I thought of San Francisco with Giant step as a clue. One of the large stairways is 153 steps from Baker Beach to Immigrant Point Overlook. It is in line with your Legion of Honor and Giant flagpole too! hxxp://www.communitywalk.com/san_franci ... map/399832 Mile Rock Stairway would certainly be a "giant" step.

Well the sand stairs location and baker beach is on the Presidio. In the 1980s the Presidio was an active duty Military base, so Im not even sure general public access would not have been allowed. But more to the point the sand ladder was installed in 2007. Mile Beach Stairs is in the wrong direction and I'm pretty sure the stairs were put in after the labyrinth was installed. so that people going to see the labyrinth wouldn't break their necks. That would also make it be from after the publication date.

There is a Sutro Baths cave which looks interesting. The last two lines of the verse do not seem very helpful so I looked again at the image. The blue outline of her arms do not quite match the cave entrance but from some of the photos online there is one which shows a view the inside of the cave looking like a tunnel. So maybe the casque is inside the cave where the shape of the rock matches. A recent video through the cave: hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sLvnKVDZL14

isnt that kind of ignoring the verse?

I was up at the Legion of Honor earlier today and looked around at the bench/tree location that erexere has made some posts about. The bench in question is along a back road that cars drive up to get to the museum's parking lot. Walking there from the museum entrance does not feel like traveling to a contiguous part of the same area. As you can see here, there are many similar benches and trees along that road. It looks like they are in the process of replacing the benches with new ones, working their way down from the top of the drive: Here's the tree highlighted by erexere. As you can see, it's actually a bit farther away from the road. The tree stump is worn and covered with lichen, so counting rings was not really possible: Finally, here's the bench. It has not yet been upgraded to the new design, but I have no idea of its vintage. I'm new to The Secret, but I'm having a really hard time seeing this as a possible dig location. The site is not in the immediate area of the parking lot and museum, and there's nothing to differentiate the bench or tree from many other similar benches and trees nearby. Almost any tree in that area has curved branches that can be construed as crossed arms from some viewing angle. Also, this might not be apparent from Google maps, etc., but changes in elevation make it so that when you're down at that bench, you can't actually see where the museum is. I had to refer to erexere's posted image to confirm that I was in the right place.

A couple more notes from my walk around San Francisco yesterday: -At the Legion of Honor site, has anyone considered "Object of Twain's attention" as being the Joan of Arc statue? One of Twain's major works was "Personal Recollections of Joan of Arc," and the statue is right in front of the museum entrance, just across from El Cid. If you're set on the Legion, I think this statue is a simplest local solution to the Twain line. -Another SF solution for "object of Twain's attention" occurred to me in Golden Gate Park. If Highway 1 is "ace is high", well, it exits Golden Gate Park and crosses Fulton (steamboat inventor) right at the Rose Garden ("air smells sweet"). Oh, and GGP has plenty of these in the vicinity: At the entrance to the Rose Garden, I found this: "Philosopher, Statesman, Humanitarian" struck me as another take on "High posts are three," with the high posts being exalted stations or positions in life, rather than literal poles or columns. These particular positions do encompass Education and Justice, but that feels like too much of a stretch to me. Not sure how all of this would fit together though. If there were ever a giant pole and giant step at Fulton & Highway 1, they sure aren't there now.

treetops i like that gate way, ive never decided on what the iconic is in the img, the GH or the GGP outline on dress, the TT in clev, was the start point,and i think the WT was the start point in chicago, ive looked around going from pk to GH, and last summer i looked at this as ace high, 3 ace, 2 above 1 below..... hxxp://goo.gl/maps/bH5Aa  ..... hasnt helped me though

cw0909 wrote:: treetops i like that gate way, ive never decided on what the iconic is in the img, the GH or the GGP outline on dress, the TT in clev, was the start point,and i think the WT was the start point in chicago, ive looked around going from pk to GH, and last summer i looked athis as ace high, 3 ace, 2 above 1 below.....  hxxp://goo.gl/maps/bH5Aa  ..... hasnt helped me though I'd just like to throw my support that GGP is going to be the iconic image and Gh is the more specific. I don't know how that helps anything, but I can't see the "Gh" itself being an iconic San Francisco confirmer as much as the matching outline of a major, known park. I think this is a good example of what "solutions" would be reasonably accessible to someone with early 1980's technology.  You could reasonably get to GGP with a map and match it to the image if you had a hunch and were comparing the various images with maps of major cities. Not to slight the Ghirardelli Chocolate Company, but I'm not so sure the reversed Gh = Ghirardelli would be readily available to you in the 1980's through reference material.  That would be something you'd notice on the ground or would potentially be able to piece together if you were a San Fran local. I know the theory has some holes in it, but I've always liked the reverse view of the Ghirardelli sign from Russian Hill Park, or at least the idea that the reversed perspective of the sign plays an important part in the view from the treasure ground. I've never really bought into the Gh = Great Highway stuff.

I like Russian Hill Park because it is in line with Alcatraz. There is an interesting panoramic photo on Google maps at the far end of Fisherman's Wharf. Its a blue circle marker to differ it from a blue square for a photo. Note the outline of the hills behind Alcatraz Island. Also look back at San Francisco. I think the alignment of the rocks at the top of image one would be a good confirmation if you were in the correct place at the top of Russian Hill Park steps.

Today I came across a 1986 Sunset Pictorial book about San Francisco (ISBN 0-376-05666-5). I'm thinking that contemporary travel guides and photo books are going to be more helpful than Internet research for some aspects of The Secret, not only for the photos and maps, but for a sense of what attractions were being emphasized at the time. For instance, this Sunset book has a disproportionate amount of space devoted to the Ghirardelli Square/Cannery area. A few things that jumped out at me: -"The [Ghirardelli] clock tower houses the studios of a radio station whose call letters are, appropriately, KFOG." So KFOG used to broadcast out of the Ghirardelli Square tower? I immediately thought of "Sounds from the sky." -In 1986, the Balclutha was at Pier 43, not the Hyde Street Pier. This is of interest to anyone thinking that "High Posts are Three" might refer to the Balcultha's three masts, since the ship was about six blocks away from its current location. (Yes, 43 and the woman in image 1 pointing to the 4th and 3rd lines on her sleeves, but that seems like a coincidence to me.) -The side-wheel paddle steamboat Eureka was at Hyde Pier, a candidate for "Object of Twain's attention." -Here's a far-out one: The ship C.A. Thayer was, and still is, also docked at the Hyde Pier. I, of course, couldn't help seeing CATHAYer, and thinking of The Secret's references to China as "Cathay". Complete coincidence, but fun nonetheless. -Finally, there's a photo of the Cannery sign. The Cannery is about two blocks from Ghirardelli Square, and like it, has a distinctive neon sign that can be viewed from the back: Viewed from the rear like this, at the top of the sign's arc, there's the word ACE, as in "Ace on high". There's even "Ace Ht." if you like. Couldn't get anywhere with the other letters without going down a rabbit hole. Without doing some in-person investigation, this doesn't seem to get close to a specific casque site, but still, some fresh leads from an old book.

treetops, I like you're approach to this.  Thank you for looking more closely at that bench and thank you for keeping us informed as you investigate other ideas. What kind of camera are you using?

erexere wrote:: What kind of camera are you using? Should probably have made it clear the neon sign was a photo I Googled, not one I took.

treetops, maybe you'll take a moment to painstakingly verify the ring count of that stump next to the bench.  Take a simple broad chisel or a 2" putty knife and scrape a solid radial area from center to outer edge and then use a little water or mineral oil to rinse the grime and bring out the ring count. I've come to a rather simplistic conclusion leading to why my roadside location fits.  1) giant pole, giant step: a clue to a standard telephone pole accessory, the "pole step", and since telephone poles are typically along roadsides, I think that's a strong hint to our location motif.  2) the sky is filled with white orbs: this may indicate near or on, but it also could be a hint suggesting below a golf course, in which case this roadside spot I've most recently latched onto fits as it's appropriately below the level of the golf course.

Bonus:  I'll pay $100 to the first person who proves that specific tree stump is 50 years or older by scraping and counting the rings. (payable by wire transfer, or money order by mail within 30 days).

there are easier ways eric. measure the circumference of the tree. depending on what kind of tree, you can guess the age fairly close. Sent from my GT-I9505G using Tapatalk

When it comes to trees, there are wild variations depending specific type of tree, soil, climate, and other environmental factors.  Its possible to get a good approx age assesment using a tape measure but its not without need for tweaking based on conditions. Documentation supports the fact that trees were planted along that roadway early in the century.  Its not clear which trees may have been planted later or even after 1982 or to what degree the branch structure has shifted.  Id like some effort and consideration taking account of the changes to this particular spot to verify these details.

Update: I'm being told by one source that the majority of the mature Monterey Cypress found in the Lands End area are 60-80 years old.  I'd still like to confirm that particular tree stump by ring count. $100 offer still stands. The main question for me is whether the tree next to it, the one with these branches is likely of the same age and part of the main copse that was first planted.  Given that sufficient sized branches tend to maintain their shape and character, then it's absolutely within the realm of possibility that this shape is in fact the shape used by Preiss-Palencar as the template for the 45-degree shape of the woman's crossed arm paired with the dragon's head portion, Maltedfalcon raised the issue that these were eucalyptus, which also grow in abundance, and fast.  I feel that they are Monterey Cyprus and they were well established at the time of Preiss' visit in 1981/2.  Once we find out how old they are, we can then consider the possibility of these specific brances as a major hint to the casque location.  That leads to the real question, where is the casque in relation to the bench or tree?  I prefer the bench as it thematically fits the context in the first line: sitting and thinking where the air smells sweet (cypress and even eucalyptus), while looking at the golden gate bridge.  I'm strongly considering two spots, either the left side of the bench at it's end, or it's centered on the bench in the dirt just on the side facing the GG bridge. Maltedfalcon also raised the issue of when the PEN was invented, and the innaccuracy of drawing a line on the map in the direction of Alcatraz.  Those are good points, and I appreciate the purist and factual approach.  I wonder if it isn't an issue of splitting hairs, since it's possibly unimportant that the modernized ink pen existed in the days of Samuel Clemens.  Ink has existed for many many centuries in the application of writing and drawing.  PEN is a historically accurate word in its application to both writing and in describing a prison long before the world knew the pen name of Mark Twain.  This is a fun riddle.  Putting it together on a standard city map is part of the puzzle.  Assuming this puzzle CANT use a map and straight-edge, or MUST always be based on a line of sight methodology is an unnecessary imposition.  As far as drawing a perfectly accurate line to this bench, I'm not buying that as a necessity either.  If that were the case, then there wouldn't be a need to use additional visual clues to locate the specific bench in the vicinity. A simplistic way to put things might be: 1- general location, 2- understand how the clues relate to a location motif, and step 3- confirmation clue.  I believe step 1 in SF is recognizing the Ghiradelli/Alcatraz fit, and finding the 'Gh' visual from the perspective in/near Russian Hill is almost a complete "ah ha" moment, only there's nothing really good to follow it up with, it's nearly a dead end, so you think this is the beginning of a trail which takes you towards GGP.  Again, you find lots of options that may tease you, but it's the giant pole of Betsy Ross and the recognition of the Thinker as the crux of the puzzle and then you put it puts you to the test of understanding the Twain riddle.  You pull out the map and see how you've travelled across the city and it may take you several trips to that triple posted parking lot to figure out you've passed by them several times, a series of benches along a roadside...like telephone poles and their accessories, pole steps, where maintenance workers rest their feet.  Step 3 is noticing the image rotates 45 degrees right to fit the map of the palace parking lot, and you might get lucky and notice the cypress fits the woman's arms and dragon's head shape from the bench nearest the casque.

At stone wall's door The air smells sweet -- these two lines work for both Ghiradelli/Alcatraz and Cypress/Thinker at the Palace of the Legion of Honor. Not far away High posts are three -- the parkinglot has these posts. Education and Justice For all to see  -- these two lines hint of public schools where the Pledge of Allegiance (1981) would be said, it's last four words being "and Justice for all." Sounds from the sky Near ace is high  -- a clue about the golf course and seagulls. Running north, but first across  -- Golden Gate Bridge, or even a description of describing a pen as it draws a letter L, for Lincoln In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention -- the PEN riddle. Giant pole -- Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole Giant step -- beyond your ability to see, use a map to connect the Flagpole to Alcatraz. To the place The casque is kept. -- bench on road below with a clear view of Goldengate Bridge, where a person may sit and reflect in their thoughts, reflect as the suns light off a perfect silver moon (LotJ).

If anyone intends on performing the simple task for $100, please PM me you're intent to do so by Jan 10th, at which time I'll be withdrawing the offer. I met with a forestry expert (been in the business for a lifetime, he's retiring next week) yesterday morning and again this morning who is extremely confident based on photographs and description alone that there's no need to count rings.  We may do so with a tool called an increment bore if we actually needed to be accurate, but it's unnecessary in his opinion.  He laughed at my face when I mentioned the idea of using a tape measure, btw.

Just noticed that p 193 states that Houston is a Giant step, and the Corporate Giants are Persian. Hmm.

Giant pole: hxxp://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/th ... house.html

Giant step, giant pole could be this: hxxp://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/th ... house.html

New to this, but based on this: Tried to read most of the thread, but didn't see anything along the lines of what I was thinking, Near ace is high Running north, but first across In jewel's direction 1 is Ace high, aka HWY 1. It travels north, then takes a sharp right (across) in jewel's direction (toward Pearl street) before continuing North. Haven't been to GG Park in years, so not sure if there are any "Giant Poles" in this area. Hwy 1 is also called park presidio. Twain wrote a scathing satire about a general Funston who had been stationed at the Presidio in SF, so Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention Could be totally off base, but won't be in SF anytime soon, so thought I would throw it out there. Sounds like Hwy 1 aka Park Presidio.

Curious connection. Not much to go on really..."running north but first across". The word 'running', easily applicable to running from jail or running in a marathon. Inspired by true events, you may recall Clint Eastwood's role as Frank Morris in Escape From Alcatraz? Back in 1981 the organizers established a course called he Escape From Alcatraz Triathalon. First you must swim across from Alcatraz to SF and then bike north across the GG Bridge.

By an amazing co-incidence, I just watched a TV program of that event on UK satellite sports channel. They even cycled into GG park and out again. hxxp://www.escapefromalcatraztriathlon. ... course.htm ...until they reach the dreaded Equinox Sand Ladder (400 steps up the cliff).

so do you think this notion is worth consideration?what could be the application?

I can't remember, has anyone looked at Fort Point in connection with this verse? Take a look here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Fort+Point/@37.8104668,-122.4775583,287m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x7fed369d97026b39 Fort Point is directly under the San Francisco side of the Golden Gate Bridge. If we go with "Ace on High" = Highway 1, then "Sounds from the Sky" is easily traffic passing overhead when you're at the fort. Fort Point has a prominent flagpole and several stone stairs and step-like structures. There is also a large step down to the rocky shore surrounding the fort, though the rough surf in the area makes that an unlikely burial place. The main courtyard has three large towers. Elements in Image 1 that get me excited about this location are: -The vague match between the outline of the woman and the outline of the fort seen from above, with the pearl in a location matching one of the fort's three towers. -The resemblance of her hairline to the San Francisco side of Golden Gate Bridge -The resemblance of the table leg to a cannon's barrel; there are a number of old cannon on display at Fort Point. -This is a stretch, but her fingers are arguably pointing to the fourth square on each of her sleeves: Fourth Point (ouch, I know). None of this indicates an actual place where you might dig, but I'll probably head out to the area in the next couple of weeks to see how close a match I can spot on the cannons and also look for a match on that barred window in the image. Finding some rationale for "Education and Justice" and "Object of Twain's Attention" would be nice too, maybe on a plaque. If I get any of that I'll take this whim more seriously.

treetops - take pictures. We love pictures here. Someone might spot something you miss in them.

I have solved both Verse 7 and Verse 6. But when I tried to post in the Verse 6 thread, my posts did not go through. This is a test. If my post works, I will put up the solution to Verse 7 and let whichever of you lives in San Fran race to the spot. For my verse 6 solution, someone has to private message me so we can share in the recognition. Doc Z

Treetops- Fort Point is an object of Twains Attention. he wrote in detail about a visit he made to Fort Point. good luck in your search.

maltedfalcon, Are you referring to the brief item from the Jul 21, 1864 SF Call? hxxp://www.twainquotes.com/18640721defgh.html I'm thinking this one is a little too obscure, especially to be known, or even discoverable, by someone pre-Internet. Is there something else out there that he wrote on Fort Point? I came across a reference to a letter from him to the lighthouse keeper there (the lighthouse is a small structure on top of the fort).

Sorry guys. In the 2 days before my first posts as a Newbie got approved, I changed my mind. Like with my solution for Verse #6, I don't want to put it "out there" and embarrass myself if it is wrong. If someone lives in San Fran and wants to PM me first, I will share the solution privately. Once we arrange to check out the spot and to share the recognition and reward, then we can share the solution to the puzzle on the full board. DocZ

DocZ wrote:: Sorry guys. In the 2 days before my first posts as a Newbie got approved, I changed my mind. Like with my solution for Verse #6, I don't want to put it "out there" and embarrass myself if it is wrong. If someone lives in San Fran and wants to PM me first, I will share the solution privately. Once we arrange to check out the spot and to share the recognition and reward, then we can share the solution to the puzzle on the full board. DocZ DocZ, that is not how our message board works. We cooperate with one another, share clues and ideas, and give best wishes if someone wants to dig. You coming on the board and saying you have solved, not 1 but 2 verses, and that you are not going to share your thoughts, is not helpful to anyone. If you think you know the answer, go dig. If you want to share it with us, we are here to listen to all ideas.

Unknown: Egbert Wrote: DocZ, that is not how our message board works. We cooperate with one another, share clues and ideas, and give best wishes if someone wants to dig. You coming on the board and saying you have solved, not 1 but 2 verses, and that you are not going to share your thoughts, is not helpful to anyone. If you think you know the answer, go dig. If you want to share it with us, we are here to listen to all ideas. Ok Egbert, you convinced me. I will share one of the 2 solutions and see how much people shred my ideas. The other I gave privately to the guy doing the documentary. I will see if he checks it out before showing it to the rest. Verse #7 At stone wall's door Start near a stone building with a door. Lots of older governmental buildings fit this bill. I am going to test out my theory using City Hall. The air smells sweet Not far away It’s all in how you parse the sentence. The air does not have to smell sweet at the door, just nearby. So this reference to Ghirardelli Chocolate locates us in San Francisco, but does not necessarily mean we start at Ghirardelli Square. High posts are three I started thinking about City Hall because the 3 branches of government are located in and around it (not far away). But it does not hurt that there are 3 flagpoles on top of City Hall. Education and Justice For all to see At Civic Center Plaza is the University of California Hastings School of Law. Also at Civic Center Plaza is the California Supreme Court and the San Francisco Public Library. There is a lot of Education and Justice for all to see. I think we are on to something. Sounds from the sky Does sound carry from the San Francisco Opera or from the Louise M. Davies Symphony hall? Probably not. But many have said this refers to Sutro Tower and just confirms the San Francisco location without pointing towards the casque. Near ace is high Running north, but first across Again, others have said this is a reference to Highway 1 which runs north and then across the Golden Gate bridge. It confirms that San Francisco is the right city, but again, I think it is not directly used to indicate the actual casque location. In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention Some have said Fulton was an object of Mark Twain’s attention. I am thinking about the Hotel Mark Twain in San Francisco. Both a section of Fulton Street and the Hotel Mark Twain are to the northeast of the part of Civic Center Plaza that I am thinking about. So either one works. Giant pole At the southwest corner of Civic Center Plaza, near the intersection of Grove Street and Polk Street, is one giant flagpole, that is larger than the other 18 flagpoles in the plaza. This is the giant pole. Giant step Go to the pole and take one giant step to the northeast - deeper into the plaza - (in the direction of Fulton Street or the Hotel Mark Twain). To the place The casque is kept. And now you are ready to dig.

DocZ, thanks for sharing. Can you add something about how the painting works with your ideas and is there anything portion that needs to be dated?

treetops wrote:: maltedfalcon, Are you referring to the brief item from the Jul 21, 1864 SF Call? hxxp://www.twainquotes.com/18640721defgh.html I'm thinking this one is a little too obscure, especially to be known, or even discoverable, by someone pre-Internet.. That's funny, It's true, prior to the Internet nobody knew anything. Actually there is plenty of Twain Stuff on the Internet, but the majority of his work not online. he wrote quite a lot for the Sacramento Union, but yes he wrote an article that is very well known about a daytrip to "Lands-End" Ad nauseum we have gone over how well read Byron Priess was. Please remember the entire treasure hunt was written pre-internet and we have discovered interesting connections to quite obscure literary passages as well as very well known books. I will simply point you to a very well known biography of Mark Twain, which mentions his visit to Fort Point. The reason it mentions a visit to Fort Point, was.... He wrote about it in his newspaper articles. hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=Yj2RPX ... nt&f=false

I wonder why Preiss didnt just use a quotation from Twain, some witty pearl of wisdom. That wouldve been more like his use of Domingo Sarmiento in V2.

search64 wrote:: Giant step, giant pole could be this: hxxp://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/th ... house.html I was sure someone was going to get excited by this find. So let me repost There is a Totem pole near the Cliff House, which has been there for a long long time (mind you,it was moved a few yards somewhere after the 1950s). One of the biggest totempoles in history. Giant pole, giant step: take as big a step as the pole is large. Can someone check out the area? Moving north but first across in the direction of the jewel, by the way, I think should be interpreted quite literally: the jewel is located on the image at one side of Golden Gate park. So move towards it (move westwards), and the north. Exactly where the pole at Cliff House is located.

search64 wrote:: I was sure someone was going to get excited by this find. So let me repost. Hi search64 - welcome to the hunt. This has been discussed previously. Unfortunately the forum's search facility is currently broken, so there's really no alternative to ploughing through the entire thread to see what's already been discovered...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Hi search64 - welcome to the hunt. This has been discussed previously. Unfortunately the forum's search facility is currently broken, so there's really no alternative to ploughing through the entire thread to see what's already been discovered... So why was it abandoned? I tried to search for Cliff house, and totem but nothing came up.

I don't remember the verdict; inconclusive probably. It's a distinctive pole, but I'm not sure that it has a lot else going for it, or anywhere obvious to dig. Like I say, search is currently broken and only returns recent posts... ************** I wonder if Twain uses a phrase regarding his attention in relation to this object; might help narrow it down a bit. Eg: "But the two central figures claimed all my attention. Was ever such a contrast set up before a multitude till then? Napoleon..." "Now and then Mr. Bixby called my attention to certain things. Said he, 'This is Six-Mile Point.'"

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I don't remember the verdict; inconclusive probably. It's a distinctive pole, but I'm not sure that it has a lot else going for it, or anywhere obvious to dig. Like I say, search is currently broken and only returns recent posts... ************** I wonder if Twain uses a phrase regarding his attention in relation to this object; might help narrow it down a bit. " Yes, I suggest you read Twain's Innocencts abroad. The section about the Milan Cathedal. "Howsoever you look at the great cathedral, it is noble, it is beautiful! Wherever you stand in Milan or within seven miles of Milan, it is visible and when it is visible, no other object can chain your whole attention. Leave your eyes unfettered by your will but a single instant and they will surely turn to seek it. It is the first thing you look for when you rise in the morning, and the last your lingering gaze rests upon at night. Surely it must be the princeliest creation that ever brain of man conceived."

As for the totem pole at cliff house. When I went to check it out about 10 years ago, The pole had been removed, The building had been removed, the sidewalk had been removed, the road had been removed. The area since has been re-built, the road is wider, the sidewalk has been replaced. If the casque was in proximity to the totem pole it no longer exists

Welcome to all of the new minds and fresh eyes! Do not be discouraged if people do not jump onto your suggestions with enthusiasm; chances are, the same ideas were discussed ten years ago. to maltedfalcon, is the current Google Street View older or newer than your visit? It does show a totem pole next to the restaurant. for searcher64, I like the road along the coast near the Cliff House for its rock formations. The tricky part is in finding the exact spot where the totem pole was in 1980, after much renovation to the road and buildings there. I don't remember specifically whether anyone ever suggested that a "giant step" would equal the height of the pole itself. I thought it meant to step off the cliff to the beach below. The casque would have easily been buried in sand -- and probably washed away after years of storms and tides. for DocZ, I could maybe imagine someone digging in Civic Center Plaza, if indeed the flag pole and grassy area existed back in 1980. I have my doubts that such a dig would have gone undisturbed for very long, or that landscaping wouldn't have uncovered anything by now. Even if the site has not changed over the decades, the political climate has -- I'm not sure what kinds of official permission one would need to obtain before risking a dig on city property today.

The current Google view is not more than 1 year old. The extensive renovations of the area occurred in 2003 please compare these two images both of which show the totem pole in different places. just before the renovations the pole was located close to where it is in the lower photo (you can also see the pole has changed heights, the wood rots and they cut it off) note the differences between the two photos, When I went in 2003 there was no curb, sidewalk, wall or road, it had all been removed and graded and then they installed re-bar re-enforced everything to make it earthquake safe. Also between 1941 and 2003 the totem pole was in 3 different places. and technically I haven't seen a definite location for it in 1980-81 at one point it was midway between the two locations shown. Also the area below cliff house right there is just rock. The beach starts a little farther south. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cliff_Hous ... e_Comp.jpg

For the longest time I put too much focus on the Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole. It's tough to avoid condensing every vague line into some form of physical link. I'm now seeing that it might be get us farther to take a more indeterminate view, at least for the time being, while we're still trying to land on our feet. So "sounds from the sky" might seem like birds, or planes, but then I think those are birds or planes which make the noise. If the sky itself is producing the sounds, that most likely would be thunder. The booms of thunder might be an allusion to Judgement Day. This idea of Judgement follows when you consider the line "education and justice". Perhaps this is telling us to consider a Judge. Is a Judge "for all to see" or would that apply to just criminals awaiting sentencing?

So, you are saying lets get closer to the exact location by taking the clues in a more generic manner? Are you also saying lets ignore the visual site confirmers in the image that are visible from the location of the Betsy Ross Flagpole

Yes and No.visual confirmers are good. I'm just real valuating hownecessary it is to really consider the flagpole if at all.I don't support a completely generic approach but I am trying to grasp the vague or dual nature of the verse.

Well if you don't consider the flagpole (or at least some pole) you have no place to take your giant step from (or to) and you have no place to take your bearing to an object of Twain's attention. In other words with out a Giant Pole somewhere, you are lost.

Oh, of courwe I think Giant Pole applies to the Betsy RossPole. I was previously caught up with the idea that other lines also applied to it directly. Now I think its neat that ...and justice for all... could be a Pledge of Allegiance hint, i think its more about making a connection to an event where a criminal receives "sentence" from a Judge or something we also might say is Mark Twain's object, a sentence.

maybe, but I think by that point in the verse, you had better be zeroing in on a square foot of dirt. rather then expanding your search. unless you have a different part of the verse indicating the exact location.

Sonoran wrote:: Here are the theories turtle123456 and I have developed for Verse 7. At stone wall's door At jewel’s gate. Japanese Tea Garden main gate . The air smells sweet Cherry trees are planted along Martin Luther King Jr. Drive to west of main gate. More cherry trees planted on inside including along a path called Cherry Tree Lane . Not far away Can be seen from Garden entrance area unless fogged in. High posts are three Sutro Tower Education and Justice Education = de Young Museum to east Justice = Martin Luther King Jr. Dr ? to west For all to see Both Museum and Road can be seen from Garden main gate area. Sounds from the sky Pagoda with antenna Near ace is high Temple Gate with " A " at its top is next to pagoda with antenna. Running north, but first across Walk north while crossing the bridge. In jewel's direction Direction to find "Giant Step" from "Giant Pole". Is an object Tea Garden Drum / Moon Bridge looks like a paddlewheel of a steamboat. Of Twain's attention Mark Twain was a licensed steamboat pilot on the Mississippi River. Giant pole Stone pagoda sometimes called “ treasure house ”. Giant step One large human pace? Giant step could be a stair step? There is a large stone step and then a large flagstone on the path toward the drum bridge. To the place Location to dig. The casque is kept. “Every treasure casque is buried underground, at a depth of no more than three to three and one-half feet." Turtle broke this with Giant Pole = Stone Pagoda. But we had no idea what “Twain's attention” was. The Drum Bridge was actually one of the last clues we solved. We couldn’t believe we never noticed the bridge looks like a paddlewheel of a steamboat. I am bumping this post from years ago as it seems to be very close to what is being discussed at the moment. The steamboat idea is interesting as well. I tend to have more success with the images rather than the verses but since I realised the "in truth" meaning of the last line in verse 3, I think we ought to look at the last line in this verse 7 as being more important than people realise. to the place the casque is kept. Nobody seems to have discussed this. I would like to concentrate on the one word "kept". It suggests a safe place. My first thought was somewhere like a bank but then a castle is a better choice. A castle has a keep. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keep So how about Strawberry Hill island as a safe place in Stow Lake. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Strawberry ... _Francisco ) What is at the top of the hill? hxxp://wikimapia.org/#lang=en&lat=37.76 ... 9&z=20&m=b Ruins of the Sweeny Observatory! Well, that surprised me as nobody has mentioned this place either. Here is a photo: https://flic.kr/p/nC4qFn Finally, here is a website where the blogger has counted all the steps on Strawberry Hill: hxxp://galomorro.weebly.com/stairways-a ... tow%20lake See picture 4 as widely spaced logs could be giant steps. (8392)

Astronomers assure us that the attraction of gravitation on the surface of the sun is twenty-eight times as powerful as is the force at the earth's surface, and that the object which weights 217 pounds elsewhere would weight 6,000 pounds there . For seven years this country has lain smothering under a burden like that, the incubus representing, in the person of President Roosevelt, the difference between 217 pounds and 6,000 . -Mark Twain Maybe the object of Twain's attention is "Roosevelt." Attention is a stance in the military, and the William McKinley statue is just to the east of the railing. Guess who broke its ground? hxxp://sfcitizen.com/blog/tag/roosevelt/ Go here and then find a "giant pole"

Standing at the Betsy Ross Flagpole in front of the Legion of Honor, you would easily see the sculpture of Joan of Arc astride a horse that is "running" (galloping) in northern direction. Twain wrote a book about Joan of Arc which he regarded as his favorite book. Line up the sculpture to where the pole once was and follow that line to the parking lot drop off (giant step) and poke around down there.

been there done that.

dietrologia wrote:: Standing at the Betsy Ross Flagpole in front of the Legion of Honor, you would easily see the sculpture of Joan of Arc astride a horse that is "running" (galloping) in northern direction. Twain wrote a book about Joan of Arc which he regarded as his favorite book. Line up the sculpture to where the pole once was and follow that line to the parking lot drop off (giant step) and poke around down there. you are contradicting yourself, the verse says the casque is in the direction of the object of twains attention

dietrologia wrote:: Standing at the Betsy Ross Flagpole in front of the Legion of Honor, you would easily see the sculpture of Joan of Arc astride a horse that is "running" (galloping) in northern direction. Actually faces northwest.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Actually faces northwest. Right. So, two things: (1) did Priess know and yet think it was "close enough" or did he simply eyeball it as being north? (2) does the phrasing indicate a diagonal direction (if the jewel is to the west?) But yeah, I agree, it's not very neat and tidy and therefore I'm inclined to believe I've got to rethink it. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention

dietrologia wrote:: (1) did Priess know and yet think it was "close enough" or did he simply eyeball it as being north? (2) does the phrasing indicate a diagonal direction (if the jewel is to the west?) But yeah, I agree, it's not very neat and tidy and therefore I'm inclined to believe I've got to rethink it. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention Im sure he had a compass with him. well actually I'm pretty sure I have it solved. and it fits all the requirements nicely, Mind you I have been working on it since the book was published. looking forward to digging as soon as they let me.

I don't think it is a direction to the reader...I think it is a description of something.... Something that runs and is also an object of Twain's attention...my first guess would be a river.

Yeah...I was wondering about St Louis and the Mississippi the other day. It does run across then north at one point. One of his books was Life on the Mississippi. I don't know how to interpret those lines in any context though; very odd.

I too think he used a compass to verify direction. I don't believe he corrected for declination. This idea about the use of the word "running" in a different way than we might assume is intriguing. Thing's that run: cars, criminals, marathoners, nylons, Marky Mark, etc.

erexere wrote:: I too think he used a compass to verify direction. I don't believe he corrected for declination. This idea about the use of the word "running" in a different way than we might assume is intriguing. Thing's that run: cars, criminals, marathoners, nylons, Marky Mark, etc. why would he care about declination, that would only make a difference if you were ploting relative courses accross huge distances. East is east for a local regardless of the declination.

Right. He wouldnt need to use declination. Its a minor factor that doesnt significantly affect any of the puzzles, especially in cases of near distance. I only mentioned it because I found something unexpected during my analysis of a potential site. When I look at the magnetic north line from the Palace parking lot, it varied somewhat in 1981 compared to 2014. I couldnt detect anything especially important though.

erexere wrote:: Right. He wouldnt need to use declination. Its a minor factor that doesnt significantly affect any of the puzzles, especially in cases of near distance. I only mentioned it because I found something unexpected during my analysis of a potential site. When I look at the magnetic north line from the Palace parking lot, it varied somewhat in 1981 compared to 2014. I couldnt detect anything especially important though. well I suppose if he said take 100 steps east and east moved a degree or two off from 30 years ago. it would make a difference. but if it was only 10 steps it wouldnt effect it enough to be outside of the general margin of error.

I have't seen this mentioned yet (at least not in this thread), but perhaps the object of Twain's attention is Emperor Norton ( hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_Norton ). Norton seemed to be quite a character, and pushed for a bridge to be built from San Francisco to Oakland as well as a tunnel under San Francisco Bay. Both of these things were later built. Mark Twain also lived in San Francisco during the time of Emperor Norton, and Norton apparently was the inspiration for the character "The King" in the book The Adventures of Huckleberry Finn. As far as an object goes, there was a plaque ( hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emperor_No ... ue3-01.png ) honoring Emperor Norton that was located at The Cliff House for many years, which was later relocated to the now demolished Transbay Terminal and is now in storage. According to the Emperor's Bridge Campaign (campaign to rename the Bay Bridge to honor the Emperor), at the time The Secret was written and published, the plaque was located at The Cliff House (see hxxp://www.emperorsbridge.org/naming/1939-plaque/ ). The Cliff House has already been of interest in this search in the past for both Mark Twain's interest in the building, the potential "giant pole" that is the Totem Pole located at the Cliff House, and the nearby ruins of the Sutro Baths. However, perhaps the plaque honoring the gentleman that inspired one of Twain's characters is the object of Twain's attention. I recognize this may be of limited value, but if we find the burial location, perhaps this will be an indicator of which way to move for our giant step (ex: Cliff House is southwest of Legion of Honor, so step/move southwest, etc).

Last line analysis: The casque is kept. = held in reserve, like a player in a team = benched.

Unknown: Why would they live in the swamps of the south with the Tuscarora and the big lizards, when they could be dwelling among the Yar-Ons? Unknown: I have looked with emotion, here in your city, upon the monument which makes forever memorable the spot where Horatio Nelson did not stand when he fell. Unknown: I had been the first to see the 'discovery' they write about in their books Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention (We're told Yar-On is "Possibly Huron, the Quebec-based tribe") The croc is on the base of Montreal's Nelson's Column. Twain refers to the monument in a speech he gave in 1881. It's not far from Ile Sainte-Helene. (All pretty far fetched; just throwing it out there.) Alternatively... Twain referred once or twice to Christopher Columbus who was "first across" the Atlantic.

Is it clear that BP uses Yar-On in place of Huron? Is that how the old Nootka story is handed down? Do you think its one of those misspellings as you might expect coming from a different tribe? Maybe thats BPs attempt to emulate oral tradition.

erexere wrote:: Is it clear that BP uses Yar-On in place of Huron? "Possibly Huron, the Quebec-based tribe" is BPs footnote. BP was Jewish and Yaron seems to be a fairly common Hebrew name with an etymology linked to singing or happiness. Maybe he picked it up randomly. Neighbouring Ile Notre-Dame had a racing circuit...Image 9 chequered patterns...?

Quick note: Grand Prix Attack is also a variation of the Sicilian Defense in Chess.

drom wrote:: n00b here image 7 and verse 7 both seem to be NOLA. Most of what I am seeing seems way more simple than most of what has been postulated on the web. Referencing Common Stuff: D5/6 - Arch at entrance to Louis Armstrong Park F5 - boy on statue at Lafayette Sq 29/90 - Lat/Long for New Orleans Stuff I haven't seen (or not as much) F5 - touching circles and hour hand resemble layout of duncan plaza https://www.google.com/maps/place/Duncan+Plaza/@29.9532274,-90.0786408,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x8620a5e05020211b:0x2896631845e7a6f7 H4 - mask resembles face statue in Elks Place - I think this used to be in a public pool or fountain but can't find info https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/236x/81/68/b2/8168b210c0be3949a15a4f6a31e5d44e.jpg L8 - curves and width change on checkerboard resembles curve and width change on Basin St near park https://www.google.com/maps/place/Duncan+Plaza/@29.9616397,-90.0703849,18z/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x8620a5e05020211b:0x2896631845e7a6f7 N9 - creature face resembles open-mouth horse at Jackson Square monument C6 - moon and stars similar to iconic water meter covers Here's where I think I am on to something that hasn't been discussed as much - I think that Verse 7 may be the NOLA verse that matches this image, and that it may be all about the Jackson Square Area. At stone wall's door Entrance to Jackson Square The air smells sweet Jasmine on fence and gate Not far away High posts are three Cathedral Spire's on St. Louis Cathedral Education and Justice For all to see Museum & Courthouse flanking St. Louis (in 1982) Sounds from the sky Calliope on Steamboat Near ace is high Steamboat is docked near Harrahs Running north, but first across River runs north here, after a W>E leg In jewel's direction Jewel is toward River ? Is an object Of Twain's attention the Mississippi River Giant pole Flag Pole in different location in 1982 hxxp://imgur.com/kGOFkeA Giant step one step away? Or reference to Moon Walk To the place The casque is kept. I moved Drom's observations above, to this thread. I find it fascinating. I know we have been thinking forever that this verse goes with SF, but Drom makes some pretty good points. I really like "stone wall" referring to Andrew "Stonewall" Jackson, and "Giant step" referring to the Moon walk, which is next to Jackson Square. Granted the "ace is high" cannot refer to Harrah's, since that was after 1981. Curious to hear what others think about this.

Andrew Jackson's nickname wasn't "Stonewall". Stonewall Jackson was Thomas Jonathan Jackson, a Confederate general.

Ahhhh, thanks Frisco. Any thought that BP is still referring to Jackson?

I've seen stranger connections from Preiss, if some of the stronger theories for other jewels are correct. One name is probably sufficient in some cases.

At stone walls door The Lyndon B. Johnson National Historic Site established/authorized in 1969 was recognized as a National Historic Park in 1980. It's located in Stonewall, Texas. This location is LBJ's home and final resting place. I'm not advocating that V7 is tied in anyway to the Houston casque just because it deals with a Texas location. Johann emailed Priess at some point and got a response which justified his statement that V7 does NOT work for St. Louis. I wonder if Johann was making a connection to the Gateway Arch in St. Louis because LBJ is recongized on a plaque there: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/ ... Plaque.jpg I can see the decoding of "stone walls" as LBJ and "door" as the "Gateway Arch" as one among many possible conclusions for this verse's first line.

I dont see anyone having mentioned "Letters from Earth" yet. If I gather correctly, Twain writes 11 letters in the perspective of Satan writing to the archangels Gabriel and Michael. Naturally, I immediately jumped to some conclusions. 11 letters? Maybe thats the reason for the 11 white orbs in image 1. This reminded me if Tim Matheson hitting a golf ball through the window of the Dean of Faber College...thats one way of sending a message, I guess. Sounds from the sky, could be Gabriel's Horn of Judgment Day. The practical application of this idea might be used to recognize the pattern of making the sign of the cross, 1(forehead)-2(belly)-3(chest right)-4(chest left). If we take the first position as Diablo Point on the map, then Alcatraz is second, the south side of Golden Gate is third and the north side is fourth. "Running north, but first across". Diablo Point is straight north of the Palace of the Legion of Honor and its position of being first in making the sign of the cross on a map is an interesting idea. I wonder if its needed to locate the little single-door light house shack as a far reference point for precision on the casque.

Mark Twain writing about a forest fire he caused, "Within half an hour all before us was a tossing, blinding tempest of flame! It went surging up adjacent ridges – surmounted them and disappeared in the canyons beyond – burst into view upon higher and farther ridges, presently – shed a grander illumination abroad, and dove again – flamed out again, directly, higher and still higher up the mountain side – threw out skirmishing parties of fire here and there, and sent them trailing their crimson spirals away among the remote ramparts and ribs and gorges, till as far as the eye could reach the lofty mountain-fronts were webbed as it were with a tangled network of red lava streams. Away across the water the crags and domes were lit with the ruddy glare, and the firmament above was a reflected hell!"

Hey just wanted to try a wrap my head around the 43 pages of speculation and wanted to toss some thoughts out there. Do people still believe the casque isn't buried in GGP in SF? I hear people talking about the following locations: Presidio Coit Tower Russian Hill park Legion of Honor Cliff House Fort point Aquatic park Though the Map is so obviously GGP...? Why would he be leading us in the totally wrong direction to those other places? I mean, he eventually wanted these found right? Also how sure are we that Verse 7 is a match? Are there any other candidates? Some people seem confident on completely different cities too.

Jordan wrote:: Do people still believe the casque isn't buried in GGP in SF? I believe the casque was probably buried in Golden Gate Park originally, but is no longer there due to landscaping over the years. Of your list, I could believe the same might have been true for the Cliff House location as well, being located along the Great Highway to the west of GGP. I am willing to be convinced otherwise, but I want the Giant Pole to be an actual gigantic pole (as was true at both of my favorite locations) rather than a flagpole or abstract concept. I won't stop anyone from continuing to speculate on alternative theories.

Hey are some quick and dirty observations I made just walking around the park the other day. Prayerbook cross: Strawberry Hill: Lastly nobody has seemed to mention the Senior center right near 37th ave and Spreckels lake, it's a long shot but:

Jordan wrote:: Though the Map is so obviously GGP...? Why would he be leading us in the totally wrong direction to those other places? I mean, he eventually wanted these found right? Also how sure are we that Verse 7 is a match? Are there any other candidates? Some people seem confident on completely different cities too. I think the theory would be that GGP is the iconic "city identifying clue" much like City Hall in Milwaukee in Image 10, The Chicago Water Tower in Image 5, and Terminal Tower in Cleveland in Image 4. Casks 4 and 5 weren't found in the immediate vicinity of either of those clues, and it is generally thought that Cask 10 is not going to be on the grounds of Milwaukee City Hall. Whether this is true of Image 1 or not depends on who you talk to. We'll never be 100% sure on the verse until a cask is dug up, of course, but the current layout of accepted verse/image matches are thought by some to be much more set in stone than others. I have a few other posts on that subject elsewhere around here

Edit: Sorry, double post.

Apologies if it's been mentioned previously (I couldn't find reference to it via the search function), but I wondered if the 'giant pole' might be the TOTEM KWAKIUTL on Île Notre-Dame, Montreal. It was constructed in 1967 (which would match with the '67' on the flower in Image 9, and at 21.3 metres tall could certainly be termed 'giant'. The Candian grand prix has been held on the Île Notre-Dame since 1978, which could explain all the chequered (flag) references in Image 9. The base of the Totem is surrounded by a circular stone/concrete base, but it doesn't seem beyond the realms of possibility to take a 'giant step' from the pole itself over the base to the grass beyond. Admittedly, I haven't done much work yet to explain why other elements of Verse 7 might point to Montreal...

That totem pole has come up before, though I can't find the discussion now. Maybe it was on Something Awful . Don't know much about it, but it always seemed an interesting possible line of enquiry.

(Here's some of the ideas on that pole from Something Awful.) hxxp://archives.somethingawful.com/show ... enumber=37

Unknown: A place there is below, from Beelzebub As far receding as the tomb extends, Which not by sight is known, but by the sound Of a small rivulet, that there descendeth Through chasm within the stone, which it has gnawed With course that winds about and slightly falls. The Guide and I into that hidden road Now entered, to return to the bright world; And without care of having any rest We mounted up, he first and I the second, Till I beheld through a round aperture Some of the beauteous things that Heaven doth bear; Thence we came forth to rebehold the stars. /* End of the Project Gutenberg EBook of Divine Comedy, Longfellow's Translation, Hell, by Dante Alighieri */ This, from the end of Dante's Inferno, describes Dante's return to the surface of the earth after passing through a "door" in the stone in the lowest part of Hell beneath the Devil's feet. I think this provides a little context for the passage through the ground to the other side of the Earth idea that is jokingly referred to as digging a hole to China.

Unknown: Then through the opening of a rock he issued, And down upon the margin seated me; Then tow'rds me he outstretched his wary step. Through a stone wall at the feet of a "giant" that makes regular giants look small, Dante travels beyond the abyss.

Hi Everyone, Just joined! I've I been checking the threads and Ive been going though old photos, talking to people I know who have lived hear since the 70s onwards and checking city data. I feel I am ready to start to dig, but not so much for the getting arrested part. Could anyone please help with information on contacting Golden Gate Park about how to get permission to dig?

I wonder if the line "Education and justice" has anything to do with the two streets Euclid and Clement. The connection being Euclid is a mathematician, math as a class in education, and the word clement, meaning merciful, can be a type of justice. These streets are next to each other in SF. Euclid is just north of Clement. The line might imply traveling south along some street.

JoshCornell1 wrote:: msg me your location. im currently in new orleans...if you know my spot i prob wont go to SF...lol Phishing

JoshCornell1 wrote:: if you dont want to tell me your spot tell me your mark twain clue solve Spear phishing

gManTexas wrote:: Spear phishing Jesus gman! Don't you know anything? Mark twain was obsessed with rivers, it's obviously fly phishing.

burnstyle wrote:: Jesus gman! Don't you know anything? Mark twain was obsessed with rivers, it's obviously fly phishing.

erexere wrote:: I wonder if the line "Education and justice" has anything to do with the two streets Euclid and Clement. The connection being Euclid is a mathematician, math as a class in education, and the word clement, meaning merciful, can be a type of justice. These streets are next to each other in SF. Euclid is just north of Clement. The line might imply traveling south along some street. I'm still working on a few things and then I'll post my full solve for this but I have Education and justice as Galileo Academy and Alcatraz.

JoshCornell1 wrote:: if you dont want to tell me your spot tell me your mark twain clue solve I'll tell you mine Josh, it's the Paddle wheel on the Hyde Street Pier.

Fenix wrote:: I’m still surprised that anywhere I go, people still continue to ignore the fact that Justice is capitalized. A while back I was exploring the idea that there might be a casque in Washington DC, so I thought that "Education" and "Justice" might represent the buildings for those federal agencies.

Fenix wrote:: :-\ After a week of walking around the city, that was my reaction as well...

Fenix wrote:: I’m still surprised that anywhere I go, people still continue to ignore the fact that Justice is capitalized. Holy Handgrenades! Justice is capitalized!

Fenix wrote:: I’m still surprised that anywhere I go, people still continue to ignore the fact that Justice is capitalized. You mean almost like Justice was Personified? This is Justice This is Education You just need to find them together - Good luck with that...

. Carry on.

Jesus Josh...how many times are you going to ask other players to give you their Twain solve (suggesting you already know it and want to verify if they are correct)? lol Nah, you don't have to answer that....just show us the pics of your newly collected N.O. casque. I'm sure you have it by now.

At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Has anyone ever thought of the word petrichor?

erexere wrote:: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Has anyone ever thought of the word petrichor? The writers of Dr. who.

erexere wrote:: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Has anyone ever thought of the word petrichor? I do, but not for these puzzles.

Why does Preiss use the word "object" followed by "of his attention"? It reminds me of the phrase "object of his affection". Also, to object sounds like a court proceeding.

erexere wrote:: Why does Preiss use the word "object" followed by "of his attention"? It reminds me of the phrase "object of his affection". Also, to object sounds like a court proceeding. I suspect to let you know you are looking for a physical object not a literary allusion.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I suspect to let you know you are looking for a physical object not a literary allusion. Objection! Speculation!

burnstyle wrote:: Objection! Speculation! Sustained, leading the witness.

gManTexas wrote:: Sustained, leading the witness. So are you are objecting to my objectification. or speculating my speculation is specious?

Education and Justice For all to see 1. Was there a police lookout tower in the park? You know the elevated kind where they could see everything. Also, if there was one near the playground, I'm sure they would have "Educated" the kids. Handed out junior badges, etc. Maybe even an early D.A.R.E. type thing, remember Preiss wrote a comic book for drug education in 1971. 2. Park Ranger station. The rangers would have jurisdictional power and educate people about the park. 3. Mounted police. They are up high and create attention, especially for kids who ask all sorts of questions. Does your horse bite? Where does he sleep? Does he poop a lot??

Giants are typically depicted as carrying a club slung over their shoulder. Could Giant pole mean club? The SFMYC in the Speckles Lake Boathouse in a club.

Mark Twain got married and moved to Buffalo, NY where he was a newspaper editor. Later when he was out west, he befriended and promoted Buffalo Bill Cody. As we know, next to the Spreckles Boathouse, the Bison Paddock sits, all close to the Senior Center. I theorized previously that the paddock could also be referred to as a steppe, or grassland.

The GG Angling & Casting Club sits in the area just south of the Boathouse. Fly fishing uses large poles. Also the Model Yacht Club members sometimes use large poles to retrieve their boats from Spreckels Lake. All of this is also near the Giant Polo field. Polo means pole in Spanish,

Gman! these are all great possibilities I tried to find something around the polo field but I could never make it work.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Gman! these are all great possibilities I tried to find something around the polo field but I could never make it work. I am trying to find connections and maybe what I have found is reinforcement instead. I want to believe that Preiss was clever enough to incorporate multiple items with the same general meaning (like a pole) to let us know we are getting warm.

gManTexas wrote:: I am trying to find connections and maybe what I have found is reinforcement instead. I want to believe that Preiss was clever enough to incorporate multiple items with the same general meaning (like a pole) to let us know we are getting warm. my theory is if is super important he puts it in both the image and the verse

I agree with that.

erexere wrote:: I agree with that. By that logic, what do we see in Image 1 and Verse 7 other than the door? Try as I might, I don't see a pole or a step. I see what might be Verdi which might be connected to Twain...

SF GGP AAA map 1978. https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39670335225/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/26694106008/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/26694092538/in/dateposted-public/

Goonie68 wrote:: SF GGP AAA map 1978. https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39670335225/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/26694106008/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/26694092538/in/dateposted-public/ Goonie, Thanks for this. Couple of observations. Portals of the Past is clearly marked on the map. Today no one talks about it. The monument, which is on the shore of Llyod Lake, is the columned entry of the Alban Towne Mansion that was destroyed in the 1906 Earthquake. You can read about it here and LOOK at the window in the mansion. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/portals-past Second, While it is still indicated I just thought about Twain's attention since it is next to Lloyd Lake. Could the possessive mean Marx (Mark's) Meadow?

gManTexas wrote:: Goonie, Thanks for this. Couple of observations. Portals of the Past is clearly marked on the map. Today no one talks about it. The monument, which is on the shore of Llyod Lake, is the columned entry of the Alban Towne Mansion that was destroyed in the 1906 Earthquake. You can read about it here and LOOK at the window in the mansion. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/portals-past Second, While it is still indicated I just thought about Twain's attention since it is next to Lloyd Lake. Could the possessive mean Marx (Mark's) Meadow? I have poked around the portals of the Past monument it would a great spot to hide something or dig, in the back of the short wall it's perfect to dig! but did see any identifying markers to say HERE it is! Wow I like the Mark's connection!!!!!

Goonie68 wrote:: I have poked around the portals of the Past monument it would a great spot to hide something or dig, in the back of the short wall it's perfect to dig! but did see any identifying markers to say HERE it is! Wow I like the Mark's connection!!!!! I'm not suggesting that it is buried by the Portals. Just that I really like the window from the mansion. I have to recalibrate and think about things, but let's suppose for the sake of argument that the hunt starts at the Portals and ends at the Senior Center. That area is now really compact. More in line with the school of thought that we should be in a small area when we get down to hunting.

I can see your point for sure, tho I am under the impression that he wanted us to see GGP and all of it's glory, stretching the search through the park. GGP is the biggest city park in the US it' bigger then Central Park NY so he might of wanted people to get out and enjoy the park, plus he lived in bay area so might of had better knowledge about the park then the other parks he visited?

Goonie68 wrote:: I can see your point for sure, tho I am under the impression that he wanted us to see GGP and all of it's glory, stretching the search through the park. GGP is the biggest city park in the US it' bigger then Central Park NY so he might of wanted people to get out and enjoy the park, plus he lived in bay area so might of had better knowledge about the park then the other parks he visited? I agree completely, and I feel the same way, although I believe there is a "trigger" location that starts the hunt in earnest. Some people suggest that most of the elements can be seen from the dig spot, although that has yet to be proven. I also believe that wandering around in the parks trying to decipher these obscure Images and Verses would give you enough sightseeing for a lifetime!

Thanks for all map posts, been trying to get a map!!! Is there anyway you can post a photo of all of SF map or area around Coit tower Ghirardelli Square? I am looking to see what was in both areas before development and removal of embarcadero freeway.

Here is a link to PDF of GoldenGate historical inventory and various construction dates with renovations, hope it helps. https://npgallery.nps.gov/pdfhost/docs/ ... 001137.pdf

starke49 wrote:: Thanks for all map posts, been trying to get a map!!! Is there anyway you can post a photo of all of SF map or area around Coit tower Ghirardelli Square? I am looking to see what was in both areas before development and removal of embarcadero freeway. Yes I will post the whole map tonight.

Awesome, looking forward to that post. Have been looking at the PDF of inventory on GGP and it is very extensive and lists dates for renovations so it should be of some value I believe.

"in jewel's direction" to me this is the clue that leads to Twain's, so why are we not concentrating on this clue, so that we can narrow down the Twain clue. I keep reading that there are a 1000 things that can be Twain, so lets take a step back and figure out jewel's direction?? Thoughts??

Goonie68 wrote:: "in jewel's direction" to me this is the clue that leads to Twain's, so why are we not concentrating on this clue, so that we can narrow down the Twain clue. I keep reading that there are a 1000 things that can be Twain, so lets take a step back and figure out jewel's direction?? Thoughts?? Goonie, I agree that the Twain clue is on the path. However, if we don't know the jewel location or general direction, people will fall back on making Twain connections to determine the direction. Having said this, organically, I proposed that Twain's attention could mean Marx (Mark's) Meadow. If we were already searching at the Senior Center, then yes, the Meadow is on the path. The problem comes if we think the casque is somewhere else. Also, not having a solid grip on the "start" location does not help. For some reason, even though the value of a pearl is cheap, this puzzle seems to be very vague and overly difficult.

Yes I totally agree that a solid start point is needed, and seems like we can't all agree on that, which makes the rest of the puzzle unsolvable. Also I read too much here where people jump the verse and lock in on a word, then becomes speculation of the clue. Verse, physical location followed by illustration verification, is this how the puzzle was intended ??

gManTexas wrote:: Goonie, I agree that the Twain clue is on the path. However, if we don't know the jewel location or general direction, people will fall back on making Twain connections to determine the direction. Having said this, organically, I proposed that Twain's attention could mean Marx (Mark's) Meadow. If we were already searching at the Senior Center, then yes, the Meadow is on the path. The problem comes if we think the casque is somewhere else. Also, not having a solid grip on the "start" location does not help. For some reason, even though the value of a pearl is cheap, this puzzle seems to be very vague and overly difficult. I think part of the reason that SF is harder then the others is that the park it self is the largest in the country which will make it the largest in the puzzle, there is a lot of ground to search in GGP. I think he stretched the clues to cover most of the park, that's if we can all agree it is GGP that we need to search? I just feel that jumping verses will not lead to the casque. Does that make senses?

Goonie68 wrote:: I think part of the reason that SF is harder then the others is that the park it self is the largest in the country which will make it the largest in the puzzle, there is a lot of ground to search in GGP. I think he stretched the clues to cover most of the park, that's if we can all agree it is GGP that we need to search? I just feel that jumping verses will not lead to the casque. Does that make senses? Absolutely. The way that I have been trying to approach this one, since there is uncertainty in the "start" point, is to absorb the other clues and then fuzzy logic the path. Right now, I think the only thing clue people agree on in is the Sutro Tower. The laughable part of that is that you can see it from just about anywhere, if that is even correct. The vagueness of the Verse makes me think two things: 1. We have to rely on the Image more. 2. Things have changed so much that we are just not making the connections. Or both.

So would it be safe to say the Sutro Tower is the Water tower in Chicago? Is the tower the marker for GGP?

Goonie68 wrote:: So would it be safe to say the Sutro Tower is the Water tower in Chicago? Is the tower the marker for GGP? you could say that as soon as you find it clearly shown in the image.

Okay, SF hunters, I have a simple request. Could someone lift up the molding around the flagpole? Most of the time they leave that molding loose for maintenance purposes, and the photos my friend took show grass growing under the bottom. I know, I kiow, Preiss said every cask was buried. But this only takes a second, and it would explain why there's no direction associated with giant step: because the giant step at the base of the molding IS the place the cask is kept. Also x marks the spot. Please?

I am heading to the park this weekend, I will try. If someone get's there before me great!!!

Goonie68 wrote:: I am heading to the park this weekend, I will try. If someone get's there before me great!!! If that casque is just sitting there, you better take photos!

drunknerds wrote:: Okay, SF hunters, I have a simple request. Could someone lift up the molding around the flagpole? Most of the time they leave that molding loose for maintenance purposes, and the photos my friend took show grass growing under the bottom. I know, I kiow, Preiss said every cask was buried. But this only takes a second, and it would explain why there's no direction associated with giant step: because the giant step at the base of the molding IS the place the cask is kept. Also x marks the spot. Please? Im lost, you mean the flagpole at the senior center? The base that is cast iron and sits on cement. That base? which photo shows molding?

maltedfalcon wrote:: Im lost, you mean the flagpole at the senior center? The base that is cast iron and sits on cement. That base? which photo shows molding? Yes the base. It is not attached to the cement, as there's lots of grass growing under the bottom. Also, like 90% of the time bases of poles are loose, for maintenance purposes. In fact, the base is slightly turned off-center, which suggests it is loose and can be moved.

drunknerds wrote:: Yes the base. It is not attached to the cement, as there's lots of grass growing under the bottom. Also, like 90% of the time bases of poles are loose, for maintenance purposes. In fact, the base is slightly turned off-center, which suggests it is loose and can be moved. Link a photo for MF.

I have a few close ups of the bottom where there are plants growing under it, but those are kind of boring to look at.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Im lost, you mean the flagpole at the senior center? The base that is cast iron and sits on cement. That base? which photo shows molding? Interesting, how did you figure out it is cast iron?

drunknerds wrote:: Interesting, how did you figure out it is cast iron? only that I kicked it and it thunked, I honestly did no metalurgical tests, but it's safe to say that is not movable in any way.

maltedfalcon wrote:: only that I kicked it and it thunked, I honestly did no metalurgical tests, but it's safe to say that is not movable in any way. For what it's worth, it appears to be hinged. Cordless drill and some sockets, two minutes tops.

gManTexas wrote:: For what it's worth, it appears to be hinged. Makes a change.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Makes a change. Huh?

this is merely a guess, but I think that in that particular flagpole design, you put a cement circle in the ground about 1 foot down, then you put up the cast iron base on the circle, The base comes in parts which bolted, hinge pinned together, then you put the flag pole into the base and filled it with cement. poof instant / permanent / stable. good luck with unbolting that...

maltedfalcon wrote:: only that I kicked it and it thunked, I honestly did no metalurgical tests, but it's safe to say that is not movable in any way. It's attached to a rectangular pole, so yeah it's not going to rotate more than a few cm no matter how hard one kicks it. I'm saying someone might be able to lift it upward, as is the case for most flagpoles/bases. Also, please, no one unbolt or unfasten anything.

maltedfalcon wrote:: this is merely a guess, but I think that in that particular flagpole design, you put a cement circle in the ground about 1 foot down, then you put up the cast iron base on the circle, The base comes in parts which bolted, hinge pinned together, then you put the flag pole into the base and filled it with cement. poof instant / permanent / stable. good luck with unbolting that... Sometimes you just need a bigger hammer, lol! Yeah, maybe that's not the best idea.

the sign on the flagpole says something like : COUNTERBALANCED FLAGPOLE PATENTED L.PH. BOLANDER & SONS SAN FRANCISCO CAL I'm just guessing its not going to be easy to "Just lift up" that part of the flagpole base.

Could someone lift up the lawn outside the senior center? Just have a look at what's under there, maybe vacuum. Thanksabunch!

well you can be darn sure that when I go in a week or so,I will definitely Try and lift it.

Refer back to the book's introduction (which is in image form) where it says, "A little digging is the task" ... I implore everyone to dismiss any thoughts of dismantling a support structure. Remember the size of the plexiglass and consider whether any flagpole or monument is going to have a void large enough to house our prize. "Hey, we haven't found it yet by digging; maybe instead it's inside a--- nope!" Just, nope.

It's a great point. I assure you all talk of dismantling stuff was in jest. Even I'm aware of how Preiss said " every [sic] treasure casque is buried underground." It's only that it woudl take 1 second. Next time you pass a lamp or flagpole with an intricate base, lift it. I've yet to find one that won't lift easily, although I'm expecting to be wrong for this one. It's just that it takes 1 second to check.

Also, Caterwood's right. We need to only dismantle structures large enough to house a box. Everybody meet at the statue of liberty.

catherwood wrote:: "Hey, we haven't found it yet by digging; maybe instead it's inside a--- nope!" Just, nope.

catherwood wrote:: Refer back to the book's introduction (which is in image form) where it says, "A little digging is the task" ... I implore everyone to dismiss any thoughts of dismantling a support structure. Remember the size of the plexiglass and consider whether any flagpole or monument is going to have a void large enough to house our prize. "Hey, we haven't found it yet by digging; maybe instead it's inside a--- nope!" Just, nope. It's fun to dogpile on a thread, I do it too. But if you're going to go for such low hanging fruit, at least read the recent posts. You would have seen that I said "Preiss said he buried every casque in the ground," and that most of this recent discussion was tongue-in-cheek. You would have also seen the picture I posted which clearly shows the base could accommodate the casque. I've just been noticing that a lot of us, myself included, are getting a little over-eager to start the comedy ball rolling on bad solves. I obviously don't think it's under the base, but it would take 1 second to check and it's bringing me a little joy of the hunt. Do I not deserve 1 second of joy for the all the hours I've spent tracing SF bus routes from 1980 to see if they make a dragon shape? tl;dr: You can't make fun of me, I chose to make fun of myself!

Goonie68 wrote:: Yes I will post the whole map tonight. Goonie68, any chance you can post the entire map soon, or the area around Coit Tower?

starke49 wrote:: Goonie68, any chance you can post the entire map soon, or the area around Coit Tower? Oh sorry yes I will post it when I get a chance.

Goonie68 wrote:: Yes I will post the whole map tonight. https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/25793154337/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39768918215/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39953863004/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39953510894/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39953510894/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40621367772/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40621320932/in/dateposted-public/ Hope this helps

Goonie68 wrote:: https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/25793154337/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39768918215/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39953863004/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39953510894/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39953510894/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40621367772/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40621320932/in/dateposted-public/ Hope this helps What year was this map printed?

1978

Goonie68 wrote:: 1978 Interesting that it was already marked Senior Center in 1978.

Yes I noticed that too! So from the map it would of been the senior center when Priess was there.

Goonie68 wrote:: Yes I noticed that too! So from the map it would of been the senior center when Priess was there. On that map. Now, we are faced with a couple of things. Either: A. Preiss reached into history. B. Education and Justice is not the Senior Center. C. Different map was used. I'd like for it to be option A for a number of reasons.

maybe he didn't have to reach into history too far, for what I read he spent time in SF and maybe visited the park more than a few occasions? I guess the question would be exactly when did it become the Senior Center?

Goonie68 wrote:: maybe he didn't have to reach into history too far, for what I read he spent time in SF and maybe visited the park more than a few occasions? I guess the question would be exactly when did it become the Senior Center? I'm mobile right now, but I came across a document that showed changes over time. It may have been like a master plan document (Google history of GGP). I think it listed 1980. City planning or zoning or even the park office might have records.

1981 GGP map I posted on facebook group states senior activities were there since 1965. Official dedication as Senior Center was 1980.

Okay, I think it's at the senior center BUT I no longer think it's a walking tour. Everything in the verse describes something at or immediately near the Senior Center: At Stone Wall's Door = The Senior Center door with faux stone wall paneling around it ' The Air Smell's Sweer = Spreckels lake right next to the senior center, which is named for a sugar magnate/company Not Far Away = IT'S NOT THE SUTRO TOWER. That's pretty far away from anywhere in GGP High posts are 3: = The phoenix sculpture above the senior center door has three posts above it! Note that the base of two of the posts is the base of the table in image 1 Education and Justice = Until 1979 the senior center was a police academy For all to see = Just finishing the rhyme? A clue? Sounds from the sky near Ace is High running North but first across = Elevated Highway 1 just a short distance away In Jewel's direction, is an object of Twain's attention = Marx (Mark's) Meadow, right past Spreckels lake Giant Pole: = The giant ornate flagpole outside the senior center Giant Step = Take one step east from the giant pole towards Marx Meadow To the place the casque is kept = Dig I'm going to apply for a dig for when I get to SF in September, but feel free to dig yourself. Just let me know if you do, so I can cross your spot off the list

I've seen people state that the casque locations should be down to one square foot. Unless I'm missing something, I really doubt that. I think maybe we get to a 10 square foot area or so. For your giant step, I think you have to estimate what constitutes a giant step, then probe in a four foot radius.

gManTexas wrote:: I've seen people state that the casque locations should be down to one square foot. Unless I'm missing something, I really doubt that. I think maybe we get to a 10 square foot area or so. For your giant step, I think you have to estimate what constitutes a giant step, then probe in a four foot radius. As usual, malted falcon has done the legwork for us. Pun intended, you’re welcome. Egbert told malted Preiss seemed about 5’10”

drunknerds wrote:: As usual, malted falcon has done the legwork for us. Pun intended, you’re welcome. Egbert told malted Preiss seemed about 5’10” Yeah, but how large of a step would a giant take? 7-8 feet?

gManTexas wrote:: Yeah, but how large of a step would a giant take? 7-8 feet? Any chance that you might be thinking a little off from the meaning of giant step? It just seems so unrealistic for anyone to determine what the proper distance that a giant step requires. Might it be something like a planter or ledge that you you could take a large step to land on? Similar to the steps you can hop in Cleveland? Just a thought.

@Bingo, probably, but maybe we test this, if nothing, to rule it out. I like Portals of the Past. Giant pole and step together.

Hello everyone, I believe I have made a giant discovery to this verse. For years people have been trying to figure out what Twains attention is. Twains attention was to the Chinese. He was very influential with everything that had to do with the Chinese immigrants and the culture. How does this relate to the puzzle? I believe that the giant pole is the Goddess of the forest pole that stood in Golden Gate Park. In the park we have a Chinese pavillion that's not far from where the totem pole stood. The painting for San Francisco has 11 moons on it. The Chinese pavillion is also know as the moon viewing pavillion. I believe you stand at the pole and in direction of the pavillion you take a giant step. What the giant step is is unknown. It could be 11 feet or paces in the direction of the pavillion. The beginning of the poem mentions "at stone walls door". I believe this to be Shakespeare's garden which is also in ggp. The painting has a door at the top that is an exact image match to Shakespeare's garden. The flowers in the garden weee also specifically picked to bring sweet and pleasant aromas in the air. From this spot the rest of the puzzle is easily solved as we move towards the giant pole. I hope someone will be convinced enough to dig in that area!

Thecollector420 wrote:: Hello everyone, I believe I have made a giant discovery to this verse. For years people have been trying to figure out what Twains attention is. Twains attention was to the Chinese. He was very influential with everything that had to do with the Chinese immigrants and the culture. How does this relate to the puzzle? I believe that the giant pole is the Goddess of the forest pole that stood in Golden Gate Park. In the park we have a Chinese pavillion that's not far from where the totem pole stood. The painting for San Francisco has 11 moons on it. The Chinese pavillion is also know as the moon viewing pavillion. I believe you stand at the pole and in direction of the pavillion you take a giant step. What the giant step is is unknown. It could be 11 feet or paces in the direction of the pavillion. The beginning of the poem mentions "at stone walls door". I believe this to be Shakespeare's garden which is also in ggp. The painting has a door at the top that is an exact image match to Shakespeare's garden. The flowers in the garden weee also specifically picked to bring sweet and pleasant aromas in the air. From this spot the rest of the puzzle is easily solved as we move towards the giant pole. I hope someone will be convinced enough to dig in that area! Someone did dig all around that pole. Nothing. It might be helpful if you read the thread and see what progress people have made over time. And also, what dead ends they have hit.

I did read the entire threat. He dug 6 feet around without knowing which direction Twains attention or what a giant step.

If my theory is correct it's at least 11 feet or 11 paces away. 11 pace is 27.5 feet. He could have easily missed it. It's hard to look past physical markers in ggp. I truly believe Maltedfalcon missed it by a few feet.

Thecollector420 wrote:: If my theory is correct it's at least 11 feet or 11 paces away. 11 pace is 27.5 feet. He could have easily missed it. It's hard to look past physical markers in ggp. I truly believe Maltedfalcon missed it by a few feet. Could be. You can apply for a permit and have a go at it. Paces is a tricky thing though.

gManTexas wrote:: Could be. You can apply for a permit and have a go at it. Paces is a tricky thing though. Especially if you are pacing toward something you cant see. that would make your distance vague as well as your direction... you could easily be off by 10-15 feet (+/- 7 feet) in any direction with the above method. I believe when the casque is found it's location will have been determined based on the image/verse to the square inch.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Especially if you are pacing toward something you cant see. that would make your distance vague as well as your direction... you could easily be off by 10-15 feet (+/- 7 feet) in any direction with the above method. I believe when the casque is found it's location will have been determined based on the image/verse to the square inch. I think square inch is pushing it a bit, maybe several square feet. Also, 420 guy, remember the casque and plexiglass box is only about 6-8 inches square. Off by 2 -3 feet and you will miss it by a country mile.

I completely agree that it can be easily missed. Preiss gave the Cleveland people a Polaroid of where to dig and they almost missed it when they found theirs. Montreal is paces. Why I suggested maybe it's that. Could be feet or paces. I live in Canada. I decided to write the solution on here with hopes ornate finding someone that will be convinced enough to dig. The moon viewing pavillion is the Chinese pavillion. The painting outlines ggp and has a Chinese theme. We even have a visual marker at the start of the puzzle that matches the painting. Twains attention was china. In all the years people haven't connected that. If you look at it my way everything points to ggp and the totem. Someone will dig one day in that spot and find it. Nothing else i can do. I'll convince someone.

Thecollector420 wrote:: Hello everyone, I believe I have made a giant discovery to this verse. For years people have been trying to figure out what Twains attention is. Twains attention was to the Chinese. He was very influential with everything that had to do with the Chinese immigrants and the culture. How does this relate to the puzzle? I believe that the giant pole is the Goddess of the forest pole that stood in Golden Gate Park. In the park we have a Chinese pavillion that's not far from where the totem pole stood. The painting for San Francisco has 11 moons on it. The Chinese pavillion is also know as the moon viewing pavillion. I believe you stand at the pole and in direction of the pavillion you take a giant step. What the giant step is is unknown. It could be 11 feet or paces in the direction of the pavillion. The beginning of the poem mentions "at stone walls door". I believe this to be Shakespeare's garden which is also in ggp. The painting has a door at the top that is an exact image match to Shakespeare's garden. The flowers in the garden weee also specifically picked to bring sweet and pleasant aromas in the air. From this spot the rest of the puzzle is easily solved as we move towards the giant pole. I hope someone will be convinced enough to dig in that area! i actually already told everybody, including people on this forum.

gManTexas wrote:: I think square inch is pushing it a bit, maybe several square feet. Also, 420 guy, remember the casque and plexiglass box is only about 6-8 inches square. Off by 2 -3 feet and you will miss it by a country mile. 5"x5" x7"tall so even smaller.

anus905 wrote:: i actually already told everybody, including people on this forum. Told us what?

Thecollector420 wrote:: I completely agree that it can be easily missed. Preiss gave the Cleveland people a Polaroid of where to dig and they almost missed it when they found theirs. Montreal is paces. Why I suggested maybe it's that. Could be feet or paces. I live in Canada. I decided to write the solution on here with hopes ornate finding someone that will be convinced enough to dig. The moon viewing pavillion is the Chinese pavillion. The painting outlines ggp and has a Chinese theme. We even have a visual marker at the start of the puzzle that matches the painting. Twains attention was china. In all the years people haven't connected that. If you look at it my way everything points to ggp and the totem. Someone will dig one day in that spot and find it. Nothing else i can do. I'll convince someone. While I agree that Twain was outspoken for the rights of the immigrants and against the police, that doesn't really give us a strong connection, since Twain's attention was everywhere. He dabbled in everything. The only two things you can say with certainty is the Mississippi and writing. I think it's simpler than that, a basic association play on words. Twain's attention = Marx (Mark's) Meadow. Doesn't invalidate your theory about the now gone totem pole either.

are you serious. YOU WERE THERE. INVOLVED IN THE CONVERSATION. WHEN I BLOCKED YOU ON FB...DO YOU NOT RECALL THIS? WTF.

anus905 wrote:: are you serious. YOU WERE THERE. INVOLVED IN THE CONVERSATION. WHEN I BLOCKED YOU ON FB...DO YOU NOT RECALL THIS? WTF. Dude, maybe you can get another hobby. 80% of your posts are useless, and the other 20% are suspect.

i mean, obviously that was a key moment in your life.

what posts theyve all been deleted lol.

that wasnt even directed at you gman...all my posts are suspect...haha...gimme a break. im the only one who knows what hes doing here. period.

I will agree that Twain had a lot of interest. You could look at it a million ways but if you go with my theory that it is in ggp, then you're only solution would be the Chinese pavillion. The fact that it's called the moon viewing pavillion and we have moons all over the painting are to big of indicators for me. You have the stone wall in Shakespeare's garden which is found in he painting. You have the outline of the park in the woman's dress. The theme for the painting is china. Too many obvious indicators to look past. I admit until someone finds it it could be anywhere. All I want is someone to go dig the spot I mentioned. One day someone will.

anus905 wrote:: that wasnt even directed at you gman...all my posts are suspect...haha...gimme a break. im the only one who knows what hes doing here. period. Josh - make you a deal, If I dig up the sf casque inside of one month you admit you are totally wrong and drop out of the hunt entirely or If I don't dig it up, I will admit you are totally right and I will drop out of the hunt Matthew Sparks

gManTexas wrote:: I think it's simpler than that, a basic association play on words. Twain's attention = Marx (Mark's) Meadow. Doesn't invalidate your theory about the now gone totem pole either. Thecollector420 wrote:: You could look at it a million ways but if you go with my theory that it is in ggp, then you're only solution would be the Chinese pavillion. I genuinely hope you convince someone to dig your spot 420. On that note, here is the best tip I can give: Before one can convince anyone of anything, it strongly helps to learn the back-and-forth of civil discussion, and how to state one's ideas without ignoring or casually dismissing those of others.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Josh - make you a deal, If I dig up the sf casque inside of one month you admit you are totally wrong and drop out of the hunt entirely or If I don't dig it up, I will admit you are totally right and I will drop out of the hunt Matthew Sparks So, if you don't find it within a month, you're just going to turn JC into even more of an obnoxious egomaniac, then bail? I gotta say, that's a good prank, even though it will be on me.

drunknerds wrote:: So, if you don't find it within a month, you're just going to turn JC into even more of an obnoxious egomaniac, then bail? I gotta say, that's a good prank, even though it will be on me. LOL I plan to be here a long while.

I'm not dismissing anyone. All I've said is that I believe this is the correct solution. I used the two previous solves as sources and used all the ino on all te boards to come to my solution. I could have stayed silent but hoping my finds help others.

Unknown: If I dig up the sf casque inside of one month you admit you are totally wrong Unknown: If I don't dig it up, I will admit you are totally right Unknown: I will drop out of the hunt Ok, but we must assume that you are not digging where Josh thinks it is. Let's say for arguments sake that is the case. Then... This statement is absurd, and does not logically follow from what you wrote above. The most likely scenario, based on past experience, is that you are both wrong. But the best of luck to you on your dig. Yeah. I don't think so. Not after 35 years.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Ok, but we must assume that you are not digging where Josh thinks it is. Let's say for arguments sake that is the case. Then... This statement is absurd, and does not logically follow from what you wrote above. The most likely scenario, based on past experience, is that you are both wrong. But the best of luck to you on your dig. Yeah. I don't think so. Not after 35 years. You don't think I will drop out or you don't think I will find it? and my logic totally makes sense, Josh's claim is that he is correct even though he cannot dig up a casque anywhere. so that is what I would be admitting is totally right. and josh digs near the Conservatory of Flowers - so no I am not digging there.

Matt, Just to be clear, I don't think you will drop out, nor do I think you will subscribe to the belief that an empty hole means the casque is no longer recoverable. More than likely, you will do what you always do when confronted with an unsuccessful dig. You will reassess, rework, and return to dig another day. Of course, that all assumes that your dig is unsuccessful. Which I certainly hope is not the case. I'm just playing the percentages.

Thecollector420 wrote:: I'm not dismissing anyone. I found this statement to be dismissive. Unrelated note: Falcon brings up a great point about steps and cask size. Unless there is an object with a well-defined center, we can't be sure of finding the cask even if we knew the object to giant step toward and the distance of a giant step. Do we go one big 6-foot-tall human step from the senior center flagpole to Marx Meadow? Well, maybe it's toward the right side of Marx Meadow, maybe it's toward the left. Even though that might put us off by a few inches, that's enough to miss a cask. Argh! So frustrating

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Matt, Just to be clear, I don't think you will drop out, nor do I think you will subscribe to the belief that an empty hole means the casque is no longer recoverable. More than likely, you will do what you always do when confronted with an unsuccessful dig. You will reassess, rework, and return to dig another day. Of course, that all assumes that your dig is unsuccessful. Which I certainly hope is not the case. I'm just playing the percentages. Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Matt, More than likely, you will do what you always do when confronted with an unsuccessful dig. You will reassess, rework, and return to dig another day. oh c'mon there are several totally logical possibilities here 1 I have discovered I have a fatal tropical disease and have only weeks to live... 2 Drunknerds really pissed me off and I can't think of a more evil way to get even. 3 I found a totally different hunt and decided to devote all my effort to that one. 4 Josh's stunning wit and repartee have broken me as a person and I have to leave for my sanity's sake. 5.... Wait., If by reassess, rework and return, you mean Swear and curse the name of Byron Priess, throw my shovel and book ,then decry I could make a better THunt what was he thinking... yes the usual

drunknerds wrote:: I found this statement to be dismissive. Unrelated note: Falcon brings up a great point about steps and cask size. Unless there is an object with a well-defined center, we can't be sure of finding the cask even if we knew the object to giant step toward and the distance of a giant step. Do we go one big 6-foot-tall human step from the senior center flagpole to Marx Meadow? Well, maybe it's toward the right side of Marx Meadow, maybe it's toward the left. Even though that might put us off by a few inches, that's enough to miss a cask. Argh! So frustrating Also why I say this casque will resolve to a 1 inch square.

Whoa.

Unknown: Also why I say this casque will resolve to a 1 inch square. Not true in Cleveland, and not true in Chicago. By any measure of which I am aware.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Not true in Cleveland, and not true in Chicago. By any measure of which I am aware. You are 100% correct, Chicago resolved to a 1 foot by 1 foot square , the basic minimum amount you could plot by using trees as your vectors ,but most likely really the center of one square yard. Cleveland resolved pretty much to a 1 foot by 1 foot area. SF will resolve to a 1 inch by 1 inch area.

Unknown: SF will resolve to a 1 inch by 1 inch area. Color me skeptical, especially if you are relying exclusively on the Image and Verse. My probe, on the other hand, is 1/2" in diameter, so 5 times more precise, give or take a few decimal places.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Color me skeptical, especially if you are relying exclusively on the Image and Verse. My probe, on the other hand, is 1/2" in diameter, so 5 times more precise, give or take a few decimal places. Although it seems I only heard <crickets> to my sporting offer... well not true my PM box blew up but not from Josh.

Congratulations Matt. When will you be sharing pictures of your find? You don’t seem to be the type to make bold predictions without a little something in your back pocket...

BINGO wrote:: Congratulations Matt. When will you be sharing pictures of your find? You don’t seem to be the type to make bold predictions without a little something in your back pocket... nope no casque yet, that would be cheating.

I solved a clue: "sf casque" stands for "Sparks' fake casque"

drunknerds wrote:: I solved a clue: "sf casque" stands for "Sparks' fake casque" no thats the Casque 13 thread.

Unknown: You are 100% correct, Chicago resolved to a 1 foot by 1 foot square Really? Care to share with the class where this spot is, exactly? Feel free to use any and all of the existing landmarks as reference points. I have exact measurements for all of them.

i actually admitted that i dug in the wrong spot in SF, but NOW def 100% have the right location, and the one i DD dig at was a ruse DESIGNED into the puzzle. theres no way you are digging it up before i get back there lol.

Unknown: but NOW def 100% have the right location Josh is now 100% sure. Meanwhile, Matt says that SF resolves to a 1" x 1" spot, but was careful not to say that he has achieved that level of certainty. In the war of words, I'd say the advantage goes to Josh.

It's interesting to think of the role Twain has in this Cathay pearl puzzle. One might hope the significance is similar to how Melville could apply to the Araby ruby in Houston, which doesn't really compare. Melville didnt even seem like a participant in a Persian framework, so its bothersome to even ask what from Twain would be expected as a good fit in recognition of Chinese culture? I've found one humorous example or angle to consider. There's a pair of Twain writings that compliment each other, parodies of Genesis, the Extracts from Adam's Diary(1904) followed by Eve's Diary(1905). Each book is humorously illustrated, Adam's by Frederick Strothmann, and Eve's by Lester Ralph. It is worth examination because there is so much division between Adam and Eve. Adam nitpicks Eve on her expert naming of things. In one select example she calls a creature a dodo; Adam doesn't believe she is right. In the next book from Eve's perspective, Lester Ralph draws a dragon like creature bounding down a hillside, and Eve claims that Adam would've called it a wildcat, while that is what she taxonomically labels a dodo! Adams Diary: Eve's Diary p.30: The two reasons why this example is worth consideration is that the pearl is positioned near the image 1 woman's "Adam's apple", and the subtle reference to the extinction of the dodo as analogous to that of the dragon.

im gonna let MF tell you the answer to mark twain clue, cause he KNOWS and DIDNT TELL ANYONE...after I TOLD EVERYONE (well, like 124 people). what a hypocrite...holding out on people...tell me where it is or eat my shit wha wha wha...sound familiar....?

never once was mf ever close to even remotely understanding this puzzle...only person ive seen make any progress is Goonie.

"Little Jackie Paper grew up. And as we all know…. A dragon lives forever but not so little boys." Last known sighting of a dodo (not counting this forum) was in 1662. Not sure about those dragons, though....I think they're still around. (Outside of the "Adams Apple" position of the pearl in the image, how does Adam's Diary or Eve's Diary and the illustrations within, point towards an object of Twain's attention, other than the pearl?)

Mister EZ wrote:: (Outside of the "Adams Apple" position of the pearl in the image, how does Adam's Diary or Eve's Diary and the illustrations within, point towards an object of Twain's attention, other than the pearl?) Well good sir, I believe it has to do with finding the old location (where Preiss would've seen it in 1981) of the "Three Adam's" sculpture which were designated to be placed at the very top of a colossal door.

erexere wrote:: Well good sir, I believe it has to do with finding the old location (where Preiss would've seen it in 1981) of the "Three Adam's" sculpture which were designated to be placed at the very top of a colossal door. Roger that...thankie, thankie.

probably just prophecy that i was meant to find it XD...as im from Niagara Falls...

anus905 wrote:: probably just prophecy that i was meant to find it XD...as im from Niagara Falls... There's a barrel with your name on it...

...what you betting on mf? XD he's the one who is trying to get lucky...give him the barrel...lol.

anus905 wrote:: ...what you betting on mf? XD he's the one who is trying to get lucky...give him the barrel...lol. You'd need permission to go over the falls in that barrel. I don't think that would stop you, though.

you cant get permission, actually.

anus905 wrote:: you cant get permission, actually. Exactly....

shecrab wrote:: Personally, I believe verse 7 matches up with Image 12 in New York--at the tip of Manhattan Island. Bumping this old idea to see if anybody else has ever seriously considered pairing up Verse 7 to Image 12 & NYC? From Wikipedia: The Stonewall Inn , often shortened to Stonewall , is a gay bar and recreational tavern in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of Lower Manhattan, New York City, and the site of the Stonewall riots of 1969, which is widely considered to be the single most important event leading to the gay liberation movement and the modern fight for gay and lesbian rights in the United States. There's also a "Mark Twain Apartments" and a "Mark Twain House" in the same neighborhood-- apparently Twain lived here for a few years: hxxp://greenwichvillage.nyc/places/mark ... residence/

JamesV wrote:: Bumping this old idea to see if anybody else has ever seriously considered pairing up Verse 7 to Image 12 & NYC? From Wikipedia: The Stonewall Inn , often shortened to Stonewall , is a gay bar and recreational tavern in the Greenwich Village neighborhood of Lower Manhattan, New York City, and the site of the Stonewall riots of 1969, which is widely considered to be the single most important event leading to the gay liberation movement and the modern fight for gay and lesbian rights in the United States. I'm on board with this pairing. So much, in fact, that I wandered around the Stonewall Inn offering people money if they could show me a "giant pole." I got arrested for solicitation.

could actually be a valid reference; as California Hall is def part of the puzzle.

anus905 wrote:: im gonna let MF tell you the answer to mark twain clue, cause he KNOWS and DIDNT TELL ANYONE Of course I didn't tell anyone, I tell people what I think are good clues, not embarrassingly bad clues... of course there is a thread entitled The Secret... HOAX?!! , I could have put it there, but I figured that was reserved for you.

lmao! youre a joke.

What do you guys think of Justice referring to the painting Justice by David Gilmour Blythe. which was acquired by the Fine Arts Museums of San Francisco in 1979. It is currently housed in the de Young Museum located on the north side of the Music Concourse, but it is not known whether it was in the museum in 1982. Its name, however, is capitalized and, if it were in the museum in 1982, would be for all to see. It’s also interesting that the defendants in the painting are carrying a shovel and other digging tools. Could this painting be Byron’s sense of humor showing through? https://art.famsf.org/david-gilmour-bly ... ce-1979718

you def go to both the de young and legion of honor, so I like it as what you are supposed to go see when youre there. this would make it a secondary reference and therefore will not particularly relate to the treasure hunt, directly. meaning, theres another reading of Justice, but youre still right.

mlsinstl wrote:: What do you guys think of Justice referring to the painting ... I'd rather it be a word on a plague or a statue of a judge, not something hidden inside a building. I really believe this hunt was meant to play out like a scavenger hunt, not a research project. By that I mean, the clues should be something visible in the field while walking a trail. Ideally, each clue should lead to a spot from which the next clue becomes visible, but I'm not certain that has been the case.

I'd rather it be on a plaque or a statue of a judge too. I searched every monument in Golden Gate Park and there are no monuments to people who were Supreme Court justices. There is another possibility, however - the monument to Ulysses S. Grant near the entrance to the Music Concourse. He founded the Justice Department in 1870. Granted, it's not an ideal reference. I think you are correct that the reference to "Education and Justice for all to see" is only there to reinforce the link to Golden Gate Park. It is not required for a solution.

looking in the wrong place big guy

I never said I was looking in that spot.

I meant for the solution of that clue in the primary sense relating specifically to the treasure hunt. I mapped out complete design of this one far beyond the treasure hunt.

Just finished reading quite a bit about the great earthquake. The big take away for me is the comparison to fire reigning down on Sodom and Gomorrah or basically an experience like Hell on Earth. Many people were displaced from their homes. All of Chinatown was engulfed by flames. Looting. Famine. All that not so good stuff. I read about the Spreckles Sugar Factory burning down. Decades before that the Ghirradelli factory also burned down. Keeping in mind the line "the air smells sweet", I wondered if it really is a Ghirradelli hint that leads us to the question of what makes that bitter chocolate into something sweet: sugar.

The great.....meaning 06? Something that has absolutely nothing to do with the book If you’re talking about the 89 when actual damage of clues or the actual site might be possible

I wouldn't know if the Secret has anything to do with San Francisco for certain, but it's been a long held consideration that the casque is somewhere in SF. Reading about these major events and chapters about the impact on the Chinese immigrants was informative. It's a history that may be something to consider.

Why is impact on Chinese immigrants be informative? I just don’t see anything related to Chinese immigrants in Verse 7 If you’re referring to image 1 Clearly it’s Mexican/Latino, wearing a dress with a Spanish dragon on it.

wtf lol was that a troll post? or are you serious? i honestly cant tell sometimes.

the earthquake (and fires) are a very important part of the puzzle.

The track I followed is based on Verse 7 paired with Image 1 and working within the bounds of SF. The Secret describes the Pearl as belonging to the dragon from Cathay (China). I'm tuning in on the air smells sweet line as it would seem a good reference to the aromatic Ghirradelli chocolate factory, but possibly be a deeper reference to what product gives bitter chocolate it's sweetness. The earthquake book's note about the Spreckles Sugar Factory burning down got me thinking more about the Palace of the Legion of Honor, built/owned by the Spreckles family. This plaque on the stone entrance just beyond the Thinker is my target,

JoshCornell wrote:: wtf lol was that a troll post? or are you serious? i honestly cant tell sometimes. proof me wrong

Spiritr wrote:: proof me wrong Spiritr and Josh, Addressing you both, because it's senseless to see people go rounds while not really making a dent in the reality of things. Josh, I understand a little better, though that's saying I've seen little to convince me of anything he's done so far as being a factual or satisfying assessment of any of these puzzles -that's not to say he's wrong, I'm just being opinionated here. I am really amazed and excited for Josh's traveling to various sites, because that's a great way to get ahead in this game and I hope he one day finds the right setup of ideas that leads to a casque. Spiritr, hello, I haven't much become acquainted with your ideas yet, but I noticed you are on the SF scene, and I love that you're digging into this puzzle. I didn't react to you're statements as if you're trolling, which is why I did my best to clarify my position on each point. The puzzles are difficult. Being at it for a long time, I'm more familiar with leaps of my own logic than any facts that might support any real progress, so that's why I'm doing more in terms of laying out my idea, then supporting it with a reason. This idea that image 1 is referring to Latin/Mexican culture is perfectly fine. I would agree except there's something about the Yin-Yang symbol and the book's introductory portions that outline the arrival of the dragon and it's fair folk from East Asia. I've seen depictions of the Quetzalcoatl that would otherwise convince me that this puzzle dips into Latin origins, but I'm going to stick with the Litany of the Jewels poem that helps us trace the Pearl to Cathay. Maltedfalcon and a couple other people have been known to scour the Legion of Honor area for clues. While there's some support for that area being a justifiable outcome, there's still very little in terms of a real strong Chicago Fence, Cleveland Wall or Montreal Legeater match. In an effort to start from scratch, I'm still casting a wide net on things like idiomatic usage in the verse and bold simplifications of the image such as the fingers pointing to 3 and 4 blocks on the sleeve, or the table being approximately the same ovalish shape as the circular pool in the Legion parking lot when viewed from the archway in front of the Thinker. I doubt many things here as well. Symbolically there's a rose rising up over the top of that table. I prefer to think it means a garden area found up in a higher plane of elevation, but it may just as well be a reference to someone having the word ROSE in their surname. Is there a plaque or marker that mentions the daughter of Alma de Brettville Spreckles, being Alma Emma Rosekrans? Anyway, I continue to be unsure of about the Legion of Honor area, but there has been evidence to support a plan that might derive from a biblical origin or East meets West mythological framework. Perhaps there is some kind of Latin/Mexican idea yet to be uncovered. Who knows... We keep looking for clues, right?

From the LotJ, the Pearl is chaste, perfect as the silver moon. If I apply a Yin-Yang or mirror/flip methodology to the numeric value of pure silver, "999" becomes "666". The 666 is a perfectly natural fit to the biblical Dragon/Hell. Using that as a contextual push, I am moved to consider the two art objects present in 1982 at the Legion of Honor, The Thinker and The Shades by August Rodin, as part of his Dante inspired masterwork "The Gates of Hell". It is the combination of items, cherry picked as they may be, which has my interest glued to the Legion of Honor: Gates of Hell sculptures The Thinker demonstrates perpetual ponderance as an expression of the idiom, to be at a stone wall run into a stone wall, (to come to a barrier against further progress. We've run into a stone wall in our investigation. Algebra was hard for Tom, but he really ran into a stone wall with geometry.) The Shades are a triple figure of the biblical Adam, standing at the very top of the Gates could be a good subject for the line "high posts are three" or even an object of Eve's/Rodin's/Twain's attention (see Twain's humorous Diaries of Adam/Eve). The Spreckles plaque literaly at the door across from the Thinker, may be representative of sugar, giving rise to the "air smells sweet" because sugar is the key ingredient for Ghirradelli's sweet smelling chocolate. At this point, Ineven wonder if there's not some grasp for similarity between Dante's last name and the chocolatier. Compare: Dante Alighieri D. Alighieri Ghirradelli = d. aliGhier...having an unused "r" and missing a third "i", a hint of anagram bait...

so........am I misinformed ....or something? Legion of Honor ? on 34th? so new suggestions is we should look into cemeteries now? is this something new? I've been living here on 32nd and Geary for the last 24 years and from what i recalled, it's still a cemetery until somewhere in the early 2000 when they rebuild the road and install those fucking speed bumps. For that new big supermarket that operated less than 2 years at the corner. https://richmondsfblog.com/2013/10/29/halloween-special-what-or-whom-lies-beneath-the-legion-of-honor/

erexere wrote:: From the LotJ, the Pearl is chaste, perfect as the silver moon. If I apply a Yin-Yang or mirror/flip methodology to the numeric value of pure silver, "999" becomes "666". The 666 is a perfectly natural fit to the biblical Dragon/Hell. Using that as a contextual push, I am moved to consider the two art objects present in 1982 at the Legion of Honor, The Thinker and The Shades by August Rodin, as part of his Dante inspired masterwork "The Gates of Hell". so, the idea was to apply the Asian Y+Y- to the Verse "silver moon" , and tried to come up with a Western Hell/Dragon solution ? as long as it make sense to you, hey, no one can proof you wrong on this one. but if it's .999 then it's imperfect, and as a proud silver collector for years, let me tell you every country product different silver, only country that use .1000 Silver was Japan, I don't recalled any country that does .999, Mexico is .980, the US.925, where in China, .900, it's the tradition, culture, and history. so let's use the Japanese silver , which is the perfect 1000 , flipped over, now we have 0001 what direction i should go now? should I take it as...."the one" or simply we see 1 dragon on the dress?

Not to be too technical, just fine silver is often stamped "999", the decimal point or % symbol are omitted. Legion of Honor is more than a cemetery. There's a lot of ground to cover. I don't see enough evidence yet to truly rule out my idea-in-progress. I'm not maintaining any delusion on the matter. I'm doing only what I can to express reasons for an approach that may be logical to one standard or another. The point is to investigate at this stage, not th be persuaded to any extreme belief.

you from around the bay?

No, never been. I'm up in Oregon.

it's not too far

Spiritr wrote:: I've been living here on 32nd and Geary for the last 24 years Soooo, what is stopping you from proving your theories? You are local, you have a theory, SF sounds reasonable with permissions. Do you need to buy a shovel or is it a lack of a camera operator stopping you from unearthing casque #3? All of this talk should morph into action at some point.

I'm curious as to wonder why any of you would think this black haired, blue -eyed Russian woman is Chinese or Mexican?

MrBackstop wrote:: I'm curious as to wonder why any of you would think this black haired, blue -eyed Russian woman is Chinese or Mexican? I see the resemblance to a Russian woman from the Sakhalin Oblast. Nice work Mr. Backstop.

BINGO wrote:: Soooo, what is stopping you from proving your theories? You are local, you have a theory, SF sounds reasonable with permissions. Do you need to buy a shovel or is it a lack of a camera operator stopping you from unearthing casque #3? All of this talk should morph into action at some point. BINGO wrote:: Soooo, what is stopping you from proving your theories? You are local, you have a theory, SF sounds reasonable with permissions. Do you need to buy a shovel or is it a lack of a camera operator stopping you from unearthing casque #3? All of this talk should morph into action at some point. 1. Nothing is stopping me, and nothing will or could. 2. I care less about permissions, I once did, talked to some authorities, and the conclusion is, as long as you're not breaking anything, keep it clean and safe for everybody, you're good. Only ways to get them involve and pay attention to you, is if you tell them "hey I'm with ABC 7 News..." 3. It still doesn't make sense to me, so over the past 30 years no one could figured it out but I did it in less than a month? No way, that's impossible, I am still looking for proof to proof I'm wrong. 4. There's a forum member here in this board that I wanted to share my ideas and ask for his advice yet he still hasn't reply. Because out of 2500 members he seems to be the only one that were right. But sadly he gave up because nobody take him seriously. Because when the majority is heading west but all of the sudden you suggest going east, people will call you crazy and it doesn't feel good. In order to get people's attention you must make them believe you share the same vision. That's why when someone ask where will you begin, I posted a picture inside Golden Gate Park. I want to see how people will react 5. Action will be taken very very soon I promise, in June for image 1.

Spiritr wrote:: 4. There's a forum member here in this board that I wanted to share my ideas and ask for his advice yet he still hasn't reply. Just FYI, if someone's an inactive member on Q4T then they may not have received your Private Message at all, unless they've opted-in to receive email notifications.

JamesV wrote:: Just FYI, if someone's an inactive member on Q4T then they may not have received your Private Message at all, unless they've opted-in to receive email notifications. how do you tell if one is active or not? Last visited:Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:18 am is he active?

Spiritr wrote:: how do you tell if one is active or not? Last visited:Mon Jun 11, 2018 9:18 am is he active? Just click on his/her profile: next to the option for sending them a PM, Q4T also shows that person's latest posts and most recent visits.

his last login was just a hour ago, his last post was over a month ago you think he have read it? or should I send another one

Fenix wrote:: one last thing, not sure if it has been mentioned here so forgive me if it has...i believe that Giant pole Giant step these Giants may just be a SF confirmer referring to the SF Giants fenix I would have to agree with this connection to verse 7 and image 1. The word Giant twice (Giants) steer you in the direction of the city's baseball team. The book has an image of a SF Giants Jersey. Maybe this is a hint to have us think of the connection. When I read the post for verse 7 no one really made an attempt to discuss this connection except Fenix, I would be curious to hear others thought on this.....

Unknown: The part of the verse that ends Giant pole Giant step I believe is covered by the Speaker Tower and Preiss' playing around with the SF Giants. Remember, in the Boston verse the term step was used to mean street block. I don't believe it means Giant Block by any means. I used the "6" and the Large "S" on the sea monster to mean 6 steps or 6 blocks from my starting point at Pier 43. I believe BP used Giant in a creative way to mean Giant pole (East Speaker Tower) and Giant step (distance from tower to the buried casque). Goonie, here is part of what I wrote on the Image 1 (page 147) thread awhile back: I totally agree that the reference to Giant pole Giant step is all about the SF Giants. BP was acknowledging MLB just lke he did with the Bulls logo and the NBA in Chicago.

MrBackstop wrote:: Goonie, here is part of what I wrote on the Image 1 (page 147) thread awhile back: I totally agree that the reference to Giant pole Giant step is all about the SF Giants. BP was acknowledging MLB just lke he did with the Bulls logo and the NBA in Chicago. It appears that he used the word Giant twice to hint to the baseball team which ties the verse to SF, like you said in Chicago to guide us or to make an easy connection to the city. The pole and step are how you see to use it with the surroundings that you are in or where the verse takes you from your starting point.

MrBackstop wrote:: Goonie, here is part of what I wrote on the Image 1 (page 147) thread awhile back: I totally agree that the reference to Giant pole Giant step is all about the SF Giants. BP was acknowledging MLB just lke he did with the Bulls logo and the NBA in Chicago. NBA Bulls logo? You mean that earring?

MrBackstop wrote:: I totally agree that the reference to Giant pole Giant step is all about the SF Giants. BP was acknowledging MLB just lke he did with the Bulls logo and the NBA in Chicago. It's an interesting idea for sure, although I'm still "working" the idea that San Francisco could be an Image 1 / Verse 6 pairing. I'm wondering if this same line of thinking could be applied to the NY football Giants, for a possible Image 12 / Verse 7 pairing?

JamesV wrote:: It's an interesting idea for sure, although I'm still "working" the idea that San Francisco could be an Image 1 / Verse 6 pairing. I'm wondering if this same line of thinking could be applied to the NY football Giants, for a possible Image 12 / Verse 7 pairing? I had thought about that connection and maybe it also can refer to the NY Giants, IMO in the book under Team Spirits shows baseball players NY and SF, which the SF is more focused on. Seems to me that the book has a few baseball references The Chicago Worlds Fair has a baseball cap with the letter C (Cubs?)

Maybe a stretch? "the object of Twain's attention, Object = Newspaper light of Asian advertisement = Asian Art Museum (GGP) Of Twain's attention, the Phrase used when selling papers "Extra! Extra! read all about it" to call attention to Meaing calling attention to the Asian Art museum in this case.

Goonie, what's the date on that newspaper? (Can't see the year....right side of the masthead is cut off). I can't see that Preiss was looking at or thinking about that specific newspaper, with that specific advert, when writing the verse.....or, that he would expect searchers to be able to get a copy of it, when looking for landmark matches. So, for me...yup, it's a probable stretch. Edit: Here's a similar issue...page 6 has an advertisement for the 10 cent books. Front page has a different advert. in the masthead. 1894...and, would have to be specific issues where that specific advertisement ran. https://chroniclingamerica.loc.gov/lccn/sn94052989/1894-09-03/ed-1/seq-6/

Mister EZ wrote:: Goonie, what's the date on that newspaper? (Can't see the year....right side of the masthead is cut off). I can't see that Preiss was looking at or thinking about that specific newspaper, with that specific advert, when writing the verse.....or, that he would expect searchers to be able to get a copy of it, when looking for landmark matches. So, for me...yup, it's a probable stretch. The paper was published in 1894, Yeah figured it was a little to far to connect, but I liked the idea of the Asian Art museum tho. The SF library might have a copy of the Morning Call the ad was on every addition of the paper that year. If a searcher is looking for Twain connections to SF that would be one I guess?

Goonie68 wrote:: The paper was published in 1894, Yeah figured it was a little to far to connect, but I liked the idea of the Asian Art museum tho. The SF library might have a copy of the Morning Call the ad was on every addition of the paper that year. If a searcher is looking for Twain connections to SF that would be one I guess? I updated my post. The issue I found, from 1894, has a different ad in that space, up top...but, ads can run consecutively, for quite some time. (Yeah, I'm sure that the 10 cent book ad ran more than once....would still be difficult to find and it would be difficult to then make a connection to the museum. I believe that "Light of Asia" is a book....?)

Mister EZ wrote:: I updated my post. The issue I found, from 1894, has a different ad in that space, up top...but, ads can run consecutively, for quite some time. (Yeah, I'm sure that the 10 cent book ad ran more than once....would still be difficult to find and it would be difficult to then make a connection to the museum. I believe that "Light of Asia" is a book....?) Yes the book is made up of a series of verses in the forum of a narrative poem Goonie68 Moriarty Moriarty Posts: 222Joined: Fri Jan 26, 2018 4:31 pm Top

What I have read about Twain is that he used this pen name occasionally while working odd jobs and writing short stories and it wasn't until he moved to SF and started writing for the Morning Call that he became widely know for his humor thus creating a demand for his books, So I would say that writing for the paper was very pivotal in Twain's career , I know he had a 1000 connections to SF but the paper would of been the most important to his legacy, even know it was for a short time he wrote for it, but again probably way to far of a stretch DAMN TWAIN!!!!

Who knows maybe BP a big Rush fan and was listing to Tom Sawyer when he wrote that verse?

Goonie68 wrote:: Who knows maybe BP a big Rush fan and was listing to Tom Sawyer when he wrote that verse? It was released in '81....so.....maybe...? (Or, not.)

Goldengate wrote:: I'm on a different computer at the moment, but I'll see if I can post a pic comparison later. I'm fully expecting to be laughed out of the room and it's probably a "so many wolves" observation and probably just the way my eye has become accustomed to seeing it, but maybe something worth mentioning as part of the larger discussion -- and if it does help someone... all the better! I would be interested in to see what you come up with.....I do like part of the museum for this puzzle.

oh. my. god...lol....*smacks head*...

Lol, you guys are so dumb... working together... trying to solve a puzzle with logic... Smdh it's SO easy, just pick a place and work backwards. Heres a hint for you dum dums: instead of asking "where does this verse lead" you should be asking yourself "how does 'an object of Twain's attention' apply to this spot in my front yard where my wife has been nagging me to plant a rhododendron bush?"

Unknown: "how does 'an object of Twain's attention' apply to this spot in my front yard As long as you weren't a contributor to the book, or a family member or friend of someone who was, that spot in your front yard is fair game assuming it isn't a "flower bed". And to hear others tell it, it's as valid a spot as any other until the casque is dug up, even if you happen to live in Nebraska, or Oregon.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: As long as you weren't a contributor to the book, or a family member or friend of someone who was, that spot in your front yard is fair game assuming it isn't a "flower bed". And to hear others tell it, it's as valid a spot as any other until the casque is dug up, even if you happen to live in Nebraska, or Oregon. False: My front yard is a graveyard. No further questions! Seriously speaking, I've always wondered if the answer to one of these isn't "oh that's in old aunt sallies back yard, she's a hoarder and everything in the image corresponds to something back there."

Unknown: Seriously speaking... Speaking seriously, does your Aunt Sally live in North America?

Antarctica, why do you ask?

Bad.

"As construction began in 1971, law students at the University of San Francisco went to court to stop its rise. But the concrete base was already dry, and the three gaunt legs were already above tree level. The tower went up; the lawsuit went down."

Hey guys, I have been working on the San Francisco solution since the expedition unknown episode. I like the idea of working as a team. I live in the SFBA. I have multiple solves. Some of them have already been dugout by the members here and of my solutions have not. I’m going to share my solutions with you guys one at a time. My first one ended in Redwood Park at the The Transamerica building. In the area of that park Mark Twain lived worked/wrote and drank his favorite saloon. There is a fountain there with frogs as a tribute to Twain’s book about the jumping frogs of Calaveras. Also it was in that park where Sun Yat-sen drafted his proclamation of the Republic of China. I was looking at the building from a distance the other day and even though it is technically a pyramid, it sure looks like a Giant Pole. I’m not sure if this solve has been done already. The hardest part of the solutions for me is the “Giant Pole” and the “Giant Step” although all of my solutions have a literal version of them. I’m starting to think in non literal terms such as Tower Records could be a Tower/ Giant Pole. My method has become one of finding multiple solutions and not just sticking to one route or place.

hey rviewer, i leave from la in 2 days for sf (im from canada)...want to let me sleep on your couch? haha ill tell you why its NOT the calaveras jumping frogs, and youre welcome to tag along for the dig and see where the treasures buried and how i got there.

Unknown: youre welcome to tag along for the dig So serendipitous. The best of luck to both of you.

Hello all. I am new to the thread but have been researching these puzzles for quite some time. Nowhere near as long as some veterans here though. I live just north of Sacramento, about a 2-3 hr drive from San Francisco. I thought I would offer up some insight on some things I have discovered. When I first heard of The Secret after watching an episode of Expedition Unknown, I was instantly captured. I couldn’t believe that I had never heard of this before. What I set out to do initially, was to take the image and verse and make some of my own conclusions without “pre-reading” what others have already discovered. This way, I could really compare what I discovered compared to what others have discovered. I do have a few ideas with the verse and image that I have not seen after reading through the entire thread of both verse 7 and image 1. Since there has yet to be a casque discovery in San Francisco, I took note of all those before me that offered up their ideas. Even if it is just a line here or there, it could come back as a clue later on. First, I would like to offer up a respectful thank you to those that have spent a considerable amount of personal time in doing research and exploring different ideas at the various places in connection to this verse. I have quite a bit of information to pass along. Instead of clumping everything into one thread or the other, I decided to just place my thoughts for the verse here. I have more research to share regarding the walk-through solutions of the Chicago & Cleveland puzzles and how they may possibly relate to the San Francisco puzzle. I will share those thoughts on the image thread along with other new information regarding a possible “aha” moment that has yet to be mentioned from the image. 1. At stone wall’s door 2. The air smells sweet For me, I start at the wall in Shakespeare’s Garden. A couple of things here… It is a wall, not necessarily natural stone, but made of brick and concrete. There were once doors that covered the bust of Shakespeare but they have since been removed. This garden has all of the flowers that were mentioned in his works. There are 6 bronze plaques, 3 on each side, that reference lines from his work that include flowers. On the 6th plaque, we see a famous line from Romeo & Juliet, “What’s in a name? That which we call a rose by any other name would smell as sweet.” Interpretation: Literally standing “At” stone wall’s door, the air smells sweet. This could have a duel meaning as the garden has a very sweet smell and the mention of the line from Romeo & Juliet. 3. Not far away 4. High posts of three This has been referenced many times to Sutro Tower. I also concur here. A very short walk from Shakespeare’s Garden to the Music Concourse, one can see Sutro Tower on a clear day. 5. Education and Justice 6. For all to see Here we see the word Justice capitalized. The only other time that I could find as to why the word Justice appears capitalized, outside of being used as a proper noun, is in the preamble to the Constitution. “We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice...” Another possible answer as to why Justice is capitalized is the author wanted to draw special attention to this word. Interpretation: Education here could refer to the California Academy of Sciences. In the same area, on the easterly side of the concourse is a monument of Sir Francis Scott Key, author of the Star-Spangled Banner. Reference the flag here and recall childhood mornings at school reciting the pledge of allegiance which ends with, “…with liberty and justice for all.” 7. Sounds from the sky 8. Near ace is high Interpretation: Strawberry Hill is the highest point in Golden Gate Park and many a bird enthusiast visit here. Sounds of many birds can be heard here. I also concur that “Near ace is high" refers to Crossover Drive, which eventually turns into Highway 1. 9. Running north but first across Interpretation: I’ve come at this from a few different directions. John F Kennedy Drive was formerly named North Drive and was renamed to JFK Drive in 1967. This road runs “across” the entire park in an east/west direction. This could be referencing running along “north” drive which runs “across” the park. Could also mean to go “across” “north” drive. Another interpretation I have seen here is also a play on words where you have, running north but first a cross… as in a literal cross, possibly referencing Prayerbook Cross, which happens to be across JFK drive a little ways down from Strawberry Hill. 10. In jewel’s direction 11. Is an object of Twain’s attention Interpretation: This seems to be a topic of much debate. In jewel’s direction… I relate this as being similar to the Chicago verse, “Beyond his shoulder…” which provides a direction to head from the previous verse line. As far as Twain’s attention… *sighs* Going through many of the monuments, statues, and other things in the park, one can relate Twain to a lot of different things here. 12. Giant pole 13. Giant step Interpretation: This has been a topic of much conversation as well. Not much to add here that hasn’t already been mentioned. I have only offered up my thoughts and observations to maybe help others or to give new insight to something that may have been previously unknown.

Scrappy929 wrote:: Hello all. I am new to the thread but have been researching these puzzles for quite some time. Nowhere near as long as some veterans here though. I live just north of Sacramento, Hey Scrappy! Were neighbors! I live north of Auburn and work in Sac. Can't wait to hear your Aha Moment! They are super fun when you get them! Welcome to the hunt!

Unknown: Hey Scrappy! Were neighbors! I live north of Auburn and work in Sac. Can't wait to hear your Aha Moment! They are super fun when you get them! Welcome to the hunt! Hey mf! Thanks for the welcome. We are close indeed! I'm about 20 mins north of Sacramento in the Rocklin / Roseville area. I've read a many of your posts here and your ideas are quite fascinating. Unbelievable how far some of your posts on these threads go back... WOW!!! I want to explore your ideas without doing too much of a deep dive and see if I can come to similar conclusions. I've had suspicions about the casque being in GGP... just seemed to be too obvious. However, I always seem to get drawn back. I posted a few ideas on the image 1 page... a walk-through of some observations from the 2 solved puzzles in relation to others. Maybe someone can glean some information from that. The other was in regards to the doughboy statue. Felt like an aha moment or maybe with this image permanently imprinted in my subconscious, I am seeing things... who knows. Would like to hear what your thoughts on my interpretations of the verse and possible aha moment with the Doughboy statue image. Kind of a sanity check to see how far from reality I might be. I would also like to hear about your digging expeditions in regards to the level of difficulty in getting deeper than a foot or so. I'm sure this pic brings back memories! Took this pic a few weeks ago. Doing my due diligence in regards to the totem pole that once was.

Scrappy929 wrote:: Took this pic a few weeks ago. Doing my due diligence in regards to the totem pole that once was. If you draw a line out from each face of the plinth 5 feet then use those points to draw a box around the circumference. the area in your picture has been dug down to about 4 feet. (and then probed) I figured it out the other day. but basically a single 2x2x3 foot hole has about 900 lbs of sand in it. so lets justsay tons and tons. you asked regards to the level of difficulty in getting deeper than a foot or so. since the ground in golden gate park is basically sand the gradient of your hole (unless the sand is wet. needs to be about 45 degrees.) if your sand is wet the angle of repose for the sand is much steeper you can almost go straight down. but wet sand can be twice as heavy as dry sand. so instead of almost 1000 pounds you need to move almost a ton. to answer your question digging is hard work, in golden gate park, because of the weight, not because of the hardness of the soil.

Unknown: If you draw a line out from each face of the plinth 5 feet then use those points to draw a box around the circumference. the area in your picture has been dug down to about 4 feet. (and then probed) I figured it out the other day. but basically a single 2x2x3 foot hole has about 900 lbs of sand in it. so lets justsay tons and tons. you asked regards to the level of difficulty in getting deeper than a foot or so. since the ground in golden gate park is basically sand the gradient of your hole (unless the sand is wet. needs to be about 45 degrees.) if your sand is wet the angle of repose for the sand is much steeper you can almost go straight down. but wet sand can be twice as heavy as dry sand. so instead of almost 1000 pounds you need to move almost a ton. to answer your question digging is hard work, in golden gate park, because of the weight, not because of the hardness of the soil. Yeah, I know about the sand underneath the ground and digging being hard work. I get that. How was the ground when you probed in that area and any other spots? I probed around the area where the double staircase near Stow Lake Drive is and I could easily get my probe down to 4 feet. However, at the Doughboy Statue, probing was not going easy at all. Like I mentioned, I didn't want to use too much excessive force to probe. Only getting a foot into the ground though before hitting high resistance in every spot in and around the area... quite disappointing. Any tips to probing in difficult ground conditions, outside of getting an irrigation layout?

Giant pole, giant step. In this 1917 article, they specifically call the 10-foot diameter circular base a step. 110- foot Douglas fir flagpole sat on a 10-foot diameter circular cement step. If indeed this is the giant pole, giant step, then this would not indicate a dig location, i.e. fence & fixture too. Images courtesy of : hxxp://www.lincoln-highway-museum.org/BRMFP/200-JM-Index.html

Going off of mf's theory of stone wall's door being the arch way at the Legion of Honor, and from a distance facing in to the courtyard, it is an exact match for the arch at the top of our photo... At stone wall's door the air smells sweet --> door aka portal... Now stand in the portal, face the fountain & walk out... Not far away are posts of three --> mf contends these are the lights of 3 on top of the poles in the parking lot... Here's the kicker... Why is J capitalized? Education and Justice for all to see --> On your left, you have El Cid statue & on the right, we have Joan of Ark statue... E & J, (E)l Cid & (J)oan of Arc Sounds from the sky Near ace is high --> ~2.3 miles away (as the crow flies) is the Golden Gate Bridge... that also happens to have fog horns. Assuming Preiss buried the casques in the early morning hours, he would have surely heard these from LoH on a foggy morning. https://thebolditalic.com/everything-you-wanna-know-about-san-francisco-s-foghorns-the-bold-italic-san-francisco-10e6edd058e0 We could combine part of line 9 to read... Sounds from the sky Near is ace is high Running North Then... but first across In Jewel's direction Is an object of Twain's attention. Giant pole Giant step --> Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole and base Let's take this home!

[quote="Scrappy929" Not far away are posts of three --> mf contends these are the lights of 3 on top of the poles in the parking lot... [/quote] No I don't since there were no light poles at LOH until they were installed in 1984

maltedfalcon wrote:: [quote="Scrappy929" Not far away are posts of three --> mf contends these are the lights of 3 on top of the poles in the parking lot... Unknown: No I don't since there were no light poles at LOH until they were installed in 1984 My apologies. I thought I had read that on one of your posts.

Thoughts for this part of the verse, Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. From the pole if you where to take a step, let's say over a path...once you completed the step (which would be larger then an average step over a path, in this case) as you are taking the step you would be moving TO the place and you would be standing AT the Place once the step has been completed. ( a place is a destination something that has a name?) The casque is kept , (kept could be used as to maintain?) All parks are maintained, but this part of the line is being specific to a place that is kept? Gardens in parks are maintained and well kept. Just a line of thought to the area of the treasure ground. Does this make sense?

Scrappy929 wrote:: My apologies. I thought I had read that on one of your posts. I've always thought sutro tower. but now there is the indication that possibly the high posts are wood? or perhaps that is just an idomatic translation to give the feeling of the shape of what we are talking about... interesting times.

I reached out to a friend, who’s mom is Japanese, and she translated it as below, very closely to what you posted GG. Hidden meanings or hints] 2nd sentence: Sweet It means basically “Sweet” but you don’t have to stick with the meanings “Sweet.” The air smells sweet, therefore, you can think conventionally as the air like……. 4th sentence: High post This post is supposed to be wooden post. 5th sentence: Education and justice I don’t understand it just by the words. It says you can understand it better if you add “can be seen not far” after education and justice. “Education and justice can be seen not so far”…..? 7th sentence: Sounds from the sky What is “Sounds from the sky?” We can hear many sounds from the sky. The sounds of birds? The roar of a plane? The sounds of the wind? But there are sounds that we can’t hear by our ears. Something that we have to use a special device…. 12th sentence: Twain Twine is the famous…. I believe the hints for this verse is a bit out of order in the Japanese version. Remember, it’s “Not far away, High posts are three.” “Education & Justice for all to see.” Corrected, we would think: This post is supposed to be wooden posts, can be seen not so far...

What special device is being referred to, to hear sounds from the sky the ear can’t hear?

jayheedan1 wrote:: What special device is being referred to, to hear sounds from the sky the ear can’t hear? I'm still going to go with fog horns. They are a special device. When there is no fog, the fog horns will not be sounded... therefore, no sound is made.

I think sounds from the sky could be malted falcons sutro tower he’s so fond of. Radio wave broad casts that we use a radio to hear.

MrBackstop wrote:: I'm curious as to wonder why any of you would think this black haired, blue -eyed Russian woman is Chinese or Mexican? The woman's face, eyes are actually lion's. Similarly the head of the dragon is a lion's head. Lions is the Galileo high's (G-h) football team. It's located just south of Ghirardelli square so the sign on the roof looks reversed from Galileo's perspective. Also explains the many moons of Jupiter. The observatory on top of the roof is shown in the painting on top left corner, often explained as palace of fine art. https://calisphere.org/item/95a5e0de75a ... 4bb625f6e/

Galileo High School H

Her round head also resembles the dome of the observatory.

jayheedan1 wrote:: I think sounds from the sky could be malted falcons sutro tower he’s so fond of. Radio wave broad casts that we use a radio to hear. I like that. That is perfect, and fits with the translated hint. You need a "special machine" to hear the sound - a radio.

When I think “High posts are three” as it relates to a waterfront city, I can’t help but think of an old frigate with its three masts. The most famous example being the USS Constitution. While nicknamed ‘Old Ironsides’, it is actually made of wood. Maybe something like that is the reason for the translated clarification of “made of wood”. Is/was there a ship in the bay that matches that description. Is there a museum in the area with references to a famous ship? I don’t really know, never been there. I am sure it was covered some time ago, but all of the cities we are looking into can be sailed to. Was there ever a ship that sailed to all these port cities? As if on tour or something? Maybe not, but that’s what I think of… It could also be that I am stuck in this maritime-themed thought process from another verse.

The counter clockwise running grandfather clock points exactly to where Fisherman's Wharf sign is.

Counter clockwise running grandfather clock map: hxxp://tinypic.com/r/dzcyt3/9 https://tinyurl.com/yd5ryyp3 #8 Alioto's #9 Fisherman's Grotto #'s refer to the original late 1800's stall numbers (stands) where fishermen sold their catch. https://tinyurl.com/yaymq8pf #7 Tarantino's (now Guardino's)

After listening to the translation of verse 7 from the Japanese edition burnstyle recently posted, along with the 2 other translations we have received, I would definitely say this most likely is a radio tower that jayheedan1 had suggested. Sutro Tower definitely fits this. Telegraph Hill got it 's name from the early signalling technique of the semaphore system. Could BP be using a play on words here with "telegraph" from the name of the hill that Coit Tower sits? Located at 1 Telegraph Hill Blvd, San Francisco, CA. Sounds from the sky Near ace is high I did look into the semaphore system awhile back to see if I could relate any of the semaphore type symbols (Robert Hooke's) to any of the symbols we see in image 1. There were some that had resemblance, but I couldn't say definitively. Hooke's optical telegraph Image courtesy of: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semaphore ... egraph.png

Could this be sounds from the sky???? At the LOH?? https://www.pressreader.com/usa/san-francisco-chronicle/20180125/282565903567733

out of curiosity, what made you guys so certain that this Verse and image 1 are the right match? Besides telling me it’s “almost certainly”, there must be a reason right? What exactly did you find in this Verse that made it so “San Francisco” ? Is it because of “Great highway” where the “h” in the image is not capitalized matches all the nouns in this Verse being not capitalized as well? So are there any suggestions that this Verse might work out with other image besides image 1?

Mark Twain is really about the only thing that links the verse to San Francisco. Nothing else in the verse definitely does. As far as I have read, Twain is so immersed in America the potential that it could but other locations is still a possibility.

Spiritr wrote:: out of curiosity, what made you guys so certain that this Verse and image 1 are the right match? Besides telling me it’s “almost certainly”, there must be a reason right? What exactly did you find in this Verse that made it so “San Francisco” ? Is it because of “Great highway” where the “h” in the image is not capitalized matches all the nouns in this Verse being not capitalized as well? So are there any suggestions that this Verse might work out with other image besides image 1? Well you have the word Giant twice, (Giants) SF Giants....seems to fit to me

New York giants and in text talks about giants and their foot steps in Houston and Dallas so not sure that can be a confirmer definitely for California only

jayheedan1 wrote:: New York giants and in text talks about giants and their foot steps in Houston and Dallas so not sure that can be a confirmer definitely for California only HWY 1 (Ace) is very well know in California, so the word Ace, Giants , Twain all points to northern California. Seems to fit. Plus you have Monte Irvin in a Giants uniform...he never played for the Giants, possible a hint to the SF Giants (in the verse) somewhere in the puzzle? Why use the SF Giants in the puzzle ? He could of put him in a Yankees uniform?

Spiritr wrote:: out of curiosity, what made you guys so certain that this Verse and image 1 are the right match? Besides telling me it’s “almost certainly”, there must be a reason right? What exactly did you find in this Verse that made it so “San Francisco” ? Is it because of “Great highway” where the “h” in the image is not capitalized matches all the nouns in this Verse being not capitalized as well? So are there any suggestions that this Verse might work out with other image besides image 1? Well obviously with the image we have the lat/longitude of San Francisco, we have the Chinese theme and we have the kind of rocks and cliffs found around lands end. Not to mention a map of Golden Gate park smack in the middle of the image. The verse indicates Ace is high (and we have an actual image of highway one in the part of her hair.) The verse indicates High Points are three (and we have sutro tower dominating the skyline) although they definitely are not wooden posts. The verse referenced Mark Twain, who himself while famous of course for his association with the Mississippi is also extremely associated with San Francisco and Northern California. Sounds from the sky has been tied to Seagulls, foghorns, organ music, radio signals, all of which are prevalent in SF. That being said for a long time it was thought that verse 7 fits new orleans better and verse 6 is also a possibility for SF. The answer is simple, whatever verse you use to find a casque.

Goonie68 wrote:: HWY 1 (Ace) is very well know in California, so the word Ace, Giants , Twain all points to northern California. Seems to fit. Plus you have Monte Irvin in a Giants uniform...he never played for the Giants, possible a hint to the SF Giants (in the verse) somewhere in the puzzle? Why use the SF Giants in the puzzle ? He could of put him in a Yankees uniform? Not that it matters.....but.... Monte played for the New York Giants until '55, before they relocated to San Francisco in '58....then, the franchise in San Francisco retired his number in 2010....

Mister EZ wrote:: Not that it matters.....but.... Monte played for the New York Giants until '55, before they relocated to San Francisco in '58....then, the franchise in San Francisco retired his number in 2010.... Yes my bad I should of said the NY Mets, but he never played in a SF Giants Uniform

maltedfalcon wrote:: The answer is simple, whatever verse you use to find a casque. Very true for all we know there are ten v and p that can matched up differently for all we know for sure. Thre is a lot of similarities between most of the verses and the locations that are too obscure to be coincidental it would seem but what do I know, cause I don’t. For instance the Sarmiento quote from verse two is about the St Charles hotel in NO, but their is a statue of Sarmiento in the commonwealth parkway that connects Charlesgate to Boston commons gardens just a block away from the “circles” thought to where the casque is buried. Seems an odd coincidence.

jayheedan1 wrote:: I think sounds from the sky could be malted falcons sutro tower he’s so fond of. Radio wave broad casts that we use a radio to hear. Sounds from the sky - Speaker Towers in National Maritime Park Near ace is high - Polk Street starts at the Maritime Museum and is "near" The Speaker Towers. Ace is high means 11 in cards. James Polk was the 11th President of the United States....."ace is high".

Choice wrote:: Her round head also resembles the dome of the observatory. I've always been curious as to why her head shape was so oval. Then I realized it was is the shape of the Maritime Museum.

MrBackstop wrote:: Sounds from the sky - Speaker Towers in National Maritime Park Near ace is high - Polk Street starts at the Maritime Museum and is "near" The Speaker Towers. Ace is high means 11 in cards. James Polk was the 11th President of the United States....."ace is high". Speaker towers built in 1938. There are 2 in the Aquatic Park. If you face the bay, one is on the left of the National Maritime Museum & one is on the right. Sounds from the sky near ace is high. I've been thinking that means the one closest to Highway 1 aka Golden Gate Bridge, the one on the left facing the bay. I've been chasing this lead for a few days now. It does make sense, however, I cannot link to any visual reference in the image or get anywhere from that point. Running north, but first across... The National Maritime Museum used to be a bathhouse, for whatever that is worth...

Scrap, I read the verse differently ,.....like this Sounds from the sky Near ace is high - James Polk is "ace is high", Polk St is "near the speaker towers. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction - Powell /Hyde cable car route Is an object Of Twain's attention - Paddle Wheel on Hyde St Pier

And in reference to the bath house, "why do you think she's wearing a robe?"

That is interesting. Could be possible... I am interpreting jewel's direction as west. Here's why... The poem says casque and jewel. The casque does not contain a jewel. If you use the robe as the outline of GGP, then the jewel is placed at the west end. In the west direction Is an object Of Twain's attention... Head west from the point you are at "Near ace is high, Running north, but first across" I have also parsed line 9 to read as: Sounds from the sky near ace is high running north. But first across in west direction is an object of Twain's attention... This interpretation would mean that we would go west first then north, not going line by line in order, which we know is not the case in the other 2 solves.

jayheedan1 wrote:: Very true for all we know there are ten v and p that can matched up differently for all we know for sure. Thre is a lot of similarities between most of the verses and the locations that are too obscure to be coincidental it would seem but what do I know, cause I don’t. For instance the Sarmiento quote from verse two is about the St Charles hotel in NO, but their is a statue of Sarmiento in the commonwealth parkway that connects Charlesgate to Boston commons gardens just a block away from the “circles” thought to where the casque is buried. Seems an odd coincidence. I wish there was a way to cross reference posts. Adding to your thoughts on the Sarmiento statue in Boston. I have also thought about this coincidence. In my thinking, I use the woman's dress, the middle part, with the 3 blocks and all the viney things, in image 11, as the Commonwealth Avenue Mall (what you are calling the commonwealth parkway). Notice in the top block of the dress there is a leaf, let's just say this is the Leif Erikson Statue. Now, starting at Leif, moving down the mall, into the third block. Where the globe hits the third block in the image is exactly where the Sarmiento statue is on the Comm Ave mall when using the blocks in the dress as blocks in the mall. There are some of those turret style homes nearby too. Who knows

hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMKY ... _Boston_MA Seems Sarmiento was influenced by Horace Mann and is the reason for the Connection.

jayheedan1 wrote:: hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMKYAQ_Domingo_Faustino_Sarmiento_Boston_MA Seems Sarmiento was influenced by Horace Mann and is the reason for the Connection. Yes, such as this, in Sarmiento's Travels in the U.S. in 1847..."Sarmiento describes the help Mann gave him and continues: Armed with these documents, and a collection of his lectures, reports, and speeches, and nourished with his oral instructions, I returned to South America and during these years have done nothing else but follow in his footsteps, his great work in organizing education in Massaschusetts serving as my model"

Scrappy929 wrote:: That is interesting. Could be possible... I am interpreting jewel's direction as west. Here's why... The poem says casque and jewel. The casque does not contain a jewel. If you use the robe as the outline of GGP, then the jewel is placed at the west end. In the west direction Is an object Of Twain's attention... Head west from the point you are at "Near ace is high, Running north, but first across" I have also parsed line 9 to read as: Sounds from the sky near ace is high running north. But first across in west direction is an object of Twain's attention... This interpretation would mean that we would go west first then north, not going line by line in order, which we know is not the case in the other 2 solves. Before going to deep down that rabbit hole BP used Casque/Key/Jewel/treasure, interchangeably throughout the hunt.

Thx for the info. Not going too deep with that interpretation. Just a thought since quite a few of the verses play on words.

Scrappy929 wrote:: I am interpreting jewel's direction as west. I just think it interesting that not too long ago someone said the exact same thing, except, I am interpreting Jewels direction as east, because they are actually in a vault in NY....

anyone know what Oggtt is? It's a milk product from.....?

Spiritr wrote:: anyone know what Oggtt is? It's a milk product from.....? Starbucks. But, only as Venti.

Would you believe Dunkin Donuts, in the 14 oz dark roast....?

what does that has to do with Verse 7?

How about: It's from Ace Vending offered as a dairy substitute additive for their decaf selection, served in a flimsy, wax coated, non-thermal, 4 oz paper cup....??

Spiritr wrote:: what does that has to do with Verse 7? If you can reach, based on the first letters of the last 5 lines in the verse, then so can I, using anything that pops into my head.

ah, so you do know my perspective.... very nice EZ, very smart

Spiritr wrote:: Ace Vending? a company found in 1998? Nooooo......focus on the size of the cup and the time spent roasting the beans.....

Honestly, reading this forum sometimes is like watching a bunch of kids playing Marco Polo in a pool. A really, really big pool. That is all.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Honestly, reading this forum sometimes is like watching a bunch of kids playing Marco Polo in a pool. A really, really big pool. That is all. There's a lot of carrots in that stew.

Marco~

sounds from the sky, three high posts, and a stone wall.... https://www.trover.com/d/Fr2m-aquatic-p ... california

If we take the Japanese translation hint to heart on this, and it is so specific I have a hard time not doing so, the sound from the sky is something that requires a device in order for human ears to hear (i.e. a radio). That doesn't fit as well into the foghorn, loudpeaker, or bird theories. You would also need a device for a telephone or telegraph but those are sounds from a wire, not sounds from the sky. A radio broadcast is literally a sound from the sky.

Goldengate wrote:: This is a great shot and the Balclutha and could certainly be part of the three posts if it's in that general waterfront area (I suggest doing a search via the search bar above and to the right. I know Malted Falcon and others had extensively researched (and dug) this area years ago). Also worth nothing the Balclutha was not docked in the pictured location in 81-82. Back then It was at Pier 41 -- which is still close. Merlin, that is a great photo from that angle of the West Speaker Tower. GG, I like the Balclutha as as "High posts are three" since my starting point for the puzzle is Pier 43. While the Balclutha is easy to see from many spots along the different piers, is was easily seen from Pier 43. At stone wall's door - Pier 43 (Our Russian lady is pointing to line 4 and line 3 on the cuffs of her robe) The air smells sweet - Refers to the smell of Freedom, not chocolate. Pier 43 was where immigrants would come from Angel Island to the mainland after being processed. Also, this was the Pier used for Alcatraz prisoners coming and going. When the immigrants landed here and when the prisoners who had served their time landed here, they smelled the air of sweet freedom.

Spiritr wrote:: Marco~ Giant Polo ~

I like where your heads at on this - keep up the good work Backstop!

Goldengate wrote:: This is a great shot and the Balclutha and could certainly be part of the three posts if it's in that general waterfront area (I suggest doing a search via the search bar above and to the right. I know Malted Falcon and others had extensively researched (and dug) this area years ago). Also worth nothing the Balclutha was not docked in the pictured location in 81-82. Back then It was at Pier 41 -- which is still close. Yup. And, search for recent posts (around June) made by Durian in the Image 1 thread....like these: hxxp://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&p=142230#p142230 hxxp://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2175#p142392 Looks very similar, in a "same general location" sort of way. Also, while in that general vicinity, read some of the responses he got. This one debunks the 'it's by the bleachers /tiles' theory: hxxp://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2175#p142415 Which got him to the leap to this, seen from the speakers: hxxp://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2190#p142423 (Seeeeeee.....the search thing is your friend. So is reading previous posts.)

EZ......You're such a WEENIE!

MERLIN wrote:: EZ......You're such a WEENIE! Read them....then, go get some mustard and eat me. =]

Mister EZ wrote:: Read them....then, go get some mustard and eat me. =] Obviously you needed more hugs as a child. Come now angry little man - everything will be OK.

OH!......I thought he was talking about getting his freak on with some mustard. - MY BAD.

MERLIN wrote:: Obviously you needed more hugs as a child. Come now angry little man - everything will be OK. And you obviously got more than hugs from your Uncle Sal, as he made you sit on his lap. That's okay....these numbers should help you cope: 1-800-422-4453 1-800-273-8255

MERLIN wrote:: OH!......I thought he was talking about getting his freak on with some mustard. - MY BAD. Wrong. I was saying, in an attempted jovial manner, don't be lazy... search the forum before posting rehashed solves, shoehorned ideas and idiotic questions such as, 'Has anybody considered Montreal, WI?'). But, I'll be happy to make the interaction between us devolve faster, if you want....

VERSE 7 If we take the Japanese translation hint to heart on this, and it is so specific I have a hard time not doing so, the sound from the sky is something that requires a device in order for human ears to hear (i.e. a radio). That doesn't fit as well into the foghorn, loudapeaker, or bird theories. You would also need a device for a telephone or telegraph but those are sounds from a wire, not sounds from the sky. A radio broadcast is literally a sound from the sky. (e: I would suggest this means we interpret that line of the verse to look at some sort of broadcasting tower or the like, not that you would need to walk around with a radio to tune into a specific broadcast. It pains me I need to reiterate that again.)

Merlot Brougham wrote:: VERSE 7 If we take the Japanese translation hint to heart on this, and it is so specific I have a hard time not doing so, the sound from the sky is something that requires a device in order for human ears to hear (i.e. a radio). That doesn't fit as well into the foghorn, loudapeaker, or bird theories. You would also need a device for a telephone or telegraph but those are sounds from a wire, not sounds from the sky. A radio broadcast is literally a sound from the sky. (e: I would suggest this means we interpret that line of the verse to look at some sort of broadcasting tower or the like, not that you would need to walk around with a radio to tune into a specific broadcast. It pains me I need to reiterate that again.) If not a radio or antenna...how about an old , large, satellite dish (that may have been removed from its original location, replaced with something smaller due to advances in tech)? The early '80's was around the time that cable TV began to expand / take off....those things were huge, back then.

Mister EZ wrote:: If not a radio or antenna...how about an old , large, satellite dish (that may have been removed from its original location, replaced with something smaller due to advances in tech)? The early '80's was around the time that cable TV began to expand / take off....those things were huge, back then. Absolutely possible, but a satellite dish is more than "sounds". He would have provided a different clue if it wasn't a radio tower, given the Japanese explanation. There is nothing in the two solved images to suggest Preiss was anything but literal in what he was saying. The Japanese hints for both Cleveland and Chicago only reinforce the simplicity (M and B are famous composers, think about the most famous columns in history, etc). The deeper we get, the shallower the solutions. Or it's parrots. Image 5 "Seek the columns". Columns remind me of infantry marching during the CIvil War, and during the Atlanta campaign John Bell Hood replaced Joseph E. Johnston as the commander of the Army of Tennessee. Atlanta fell, Lincoln was re-elected and Sherman began his march to the sea largely unopposed, just like the opening under the arch in Image 5. In a futile effort to regain Tennessee for the Confederacy, Hood decimated what remnants of his army were left at Franklin and then the disaster at Nashville. However, as his army was marching north from Atlanta, certain northern newspapers were sounding alarms (or "curving the road") as they used to say, between the "two countries" (USA and CSA). Before the armies settled their score on the "rectangular plot" that was the Harpeth River at the battle of Franklin, the newspapers were claiming foolishly that Hood's army was on the brink of crossing the Ohio River and invading the north. Cleveland is a city north of the Ohio river and the Civil war was a clash of cultures so it's obviously in the Cleveland Cultural Gardens. Before Atanta fell they called it a "Modern Thermopylae", so probably the Greek Gardens and if I look long enough I can find a Confederate general from Italy I'm sure. Gotta be buried there.

BTW since you brought it up “famous columns” would be the Greek Parthenon, correct? Is that what most think?

jayheedan1 wrote:: BTW since you brought it up “famous columns” would be the Greek Parthenon, correct? Is that what most think? That's what I would think.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Absolutely possible, but a satellite dish is more than "sounds". He would have provided a different clue if it wasn't a radio tower, given the Japanese explanation. There is nothing in the two solved images to suggest Preiss was anything but literal in what he was saying. The Japanese hints for both Cleveland and Chicago only reinforce the simplicity (M and B are famous composers, think about the most famous columns in history, etc). The deeper we get, the shallower the solutions. Or it's parrots. Merlot Brougham wrote:: Image 5 ..... if I look long enough I can find a Confederate general from Italy I'm sure. Gotta be buried there. I'll forget about the Stanford Dish (which is too far south, anyway). Go with General William B. Taliaferro....because he was the only one I could find on short notice.

Mister EZ wrote:: Go with General William B. Taliaferro....because he was the only one I could find on short notice. As in the only mention in the wikipedia article that comes up when you google "Italian Confederates"? Know nothing about him other than he always had bad stats in every Civil War game I ever played featuring Generals with "stats".

Hi guys, I hope this could be of help: possible epiphany for verse 7 viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7362

Delilah84 wrote:: Hi guys, I hope this could be of help: possible epiphany for verse 7 viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7362 Three different threads now as I am going through the latest posts. Same stuff. Maybe you are trolling??

I replied thoroughly on the other thread where you wrote to me, so I won't make the same rookie mistake of posting everywhere. And no, no trolling intended...

Has anyone ever looked at the verses that go with the found casques? I read somewhere that the verse may not be in order of find. I am new to this thread and I am using Image 1 with verse 7 as clues to the treasure. At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept.

prospector wrote:: Has anyone ever looked at the verses that go with the found casques? I read somewhere that the verse may not be in order of find. I am new to this thread and I am using Image 1 with verse 7 as clues to the treasure. yes cleveland's verse is read backwards but chicago's is arguably in order as it is written.

maltedfalcon wrote:: yes cleveland's verse is read backwards but chicago's is arguably in order as it is written. Hey, Are you on wiki?

prospector wrote:: Hey, Are you on wiki? rarely

"The air smells sweet" If the Japanese translations are to be a solid source of information, and this part of the verse is meant to be a metaphor, then take this in to account. If we think that the verse pertains to success, then there are people to consider that fit this idea. One in particular.. During San Francisco's boom, the growth due to the gold and silver rush, many immigrants made there wealth not from being a miner, but taking the occupation of merchant. People such as Thomas Larkin, made his fortune in buying supplies and selling them to the influx of people rushing to the gold fields Levi Strauss, sold equipment and durable clothing to the miners Domingo Ghirardelli, a merchant selling confections to miners, later became a world renown Chocolate Confectioner by shipping his goods across the US, China and Mexico. People like these are what shaped San Francisco that we know today. San Francisco was a population of about 500 people before the gold and silver rush, during the mid 1800's in nearly one years time more than 200,000 people poured into the bay. This influx of activity gave opportunity to the people, some become successful and changed the landscape of the city with this new boom. The verse uses the word " sweet", looking at the metaphor as success, and the specific word "sweet" with the image showing us a Gh and the mountains that are colored, brown, light and dark( possibly a hint to chocolate) seems to me that the Ghirardelli building would be the start to the verse. I think BP used the history of the areas he wanted us to look at and educate us a little through each puzzle. Each city or park has it's own unique story, and I can see how he used the verse to teach us a little bit about the city's or parks we embark on. Note: all the information about San Francisco was done at the local library..

did you get that using the tip i just left you? hahahahahahahahahahahaa (*pets goonie*...that's a good goonie...XD)

accident forgiveness aaa

hahah or not...see it...see your statement...ponder...then youll be getting somewhere!

JoshCornell wrote:: hahah or not...see it...see your statement...ponder...then youll be getting somewhere! You are like the guy wearing a sandwich board proclaiming "The End is nigh" when a comet appears.

i is what i is. i am what i am. i gotta be what i gotta be. plesae, dont cry gman....

I was thinking about Twain's attention, and taking it quite literally I found this: ATTENTION, FITZ SMYTHE! : article written by Twain here: hxxp://www.twainquotes.com/Chronicle/18651026.html Fitz Smythe is Albert S Evans, writer and american explorer, and he famously feuded with Mark Twain when in SF (wikipedia) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Albert_S._Evans If we take the meaning of Object (object of Twain's attention) as: to oppose something firmly and usually with words or arguments (webster dictionary) that would fit. That would leave us with a Fitz Smythe / Evans link: - there's an Evans Avenue, but that's named for Rear-admiral Robley D. Evans of the United states Navy - Probably the same for Evans station : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Evans_station_(Muni_Metro ) - and Evans center... I'm not sure if this takes us anywhere... well who knows maybe it fitzzz with someone's theory

Great catch Mariska!.......This quote caught my attention "Armand Leonidas Fitz Smythe" - I think there is a statue of Leonidas in golden gate park. https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/poi_leonidas.asp

Other objects of Twain's attention in the article could be - mathematics, colorado, and steamer. Lots of interesting leads.

MERLIN wrote:: Great catch Mariska!.......This quote caught my attention "Armand Leonidas Fitz Smythe" - I think there is a statue of Leonidas in golden gate park. https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/poi_leonidas.asp I didn't make that connection yet, Great one Merlin, I like it a lot !

Like another member (treetops back in 2013) I also came across the same book, a sunset pictorial book from 1986. This time, knowing what we know about the Japanese clues it seems to make more sense. There is a short paragraph that explains about the preserving of the Ghirardelli building and makes mention of “The [Ghirardelli] clock tower houses the studios of a radio station whose call letters are, appropriately, KFOG”. I know the radio station formed in the 1960's but I've not found too much information in regards to the statement in the book. But, being the shape it is (the clock towers A shape) and what it housed, it certainly could fit the “Sounds from the sky Near ace is high” Just thought that was interesting. Snippet from actual book

BBI, Excellent find. It feels like the type of obscure reference that BP would make...Just enough "description" to throw people off track . AP

Goldengate wrote:: And last, the man who translated the Japanese translation has communicated with group members here... I've read the note. His English is pretty damn good -- and my friend in Japan (also a translator) told me he's a legend in the translating and publishing world and he was the dean of a school dedicated to translation... so I'll take his word for it that Preiss said "wood posts." Sticking to the rules, I'll ask my question here that was related to another debate under image 1. Just want to keep the peace and carry on the whole process of asking questions and idea sharing as intended by this forum: Hi GG, In regards to the high posts three line. If we are to take them as being wooden posts, do you have any thoughts on what this could be referring to at the GGP. I know it had always been widely seen as being Sutro Tower. But thats obviously out now given its not made of wood. Just curious if you have any ideas/thoughts on that.

Goldengate wrote:: "Great question and I wish I had a good answer right now... I haven't been in the city since the summer and that was before I found the Japanese hints. Next time I'm there and traversing the Traverse Drive area, I'm going to bring as many 80s contemporary photos with me to compare and contrast how things have changed in my theorized area. I have a couple thoughts -- my main inclination is to look at the old Mothers' Meadow playground area pics... While it's generally similar to how it was in the 80s, the play sets have certainly changed out a couple times and I know the structures of the 80s were awesomely dangerous and often had much higher vertical timbers / posts than they do now. Again, that's just a theory and kind of a starting point... I'd love if anyone else has thoughts. Great food for thought! Another piece of guidance (right or wrong) I take from the Chicago and Cleveland final burial spots is that they were in areas that are a little out of the eyeline of most park goers. Chicago certainly more than Cleveland in that regard, but both seem like fairly unassuming spots -- not totally out of sight from the general public, but not a focal point either." Thanks for your feedback GG. I like the idea of some form of play structure being the posts, will give this some further thought. Cheers.

Thanks Goldengate for trying to keep the peace. I posted the link of the book about Twain in the Image feed by mistake. I look at the image and verse as one piece of art. Also all the red strawberry and tomato images led me to that thread because the car on the book cover is red. LOL -- Oops. I am trying to get the hang of this site and I hope my post didn't stir up any problems. I have a question; If I want to post something that has to do with the verse and want to link it to something in the image where would that be posted? The verse is what is my attention and I think Twain's. From what I studied in the many hours of thread reads -- is The direction, giant pole, three posts may be seen in the image from the proposed dig spot. The other problem I've had: When I type my post, I somehow I delete it when I thought I posted it. I was hoping to get feedback that my post did make it to a thread. At this point I am happy I got a response from something I posted. LOL. Dig It!

Giant Pole???? - hxxp://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=May_Day

Durian wrote:: Hi Prospector. I'm not entirely certain why there is an image thread and a verse thread for each of the puzzles. They seem inextricably tied together in my mind, so IMO you probably shouldn't worry too much about where you post your thoughts and observations if you want to link a verse to an image. After all, the book does say the pair will lead you to the casque! I don't believe I've ever posted on any of the "verse" threads... Most of the threads were started before any of the verses and images had been reasonably paired. Heck, some people are still arguing which goes with which. Either way, I think it makes sense to have one to discuss the Image and what we can see and another to talk about the Verse. Maybe some people are more visual and others are more literary.

gManTexas wrote:: Most of the threads were started before any of the verses and images had been reasonably paired. Heck, some people are still arguing which goes with which. Either way, I think it makes sense to have one to discuss the Image and what we can see and another to talk about the Verse. Maybe some people are more visual and others are more literary. That is a good point.

There often is no rhyme or reason stated in peoples assumed pairing or connection to a specific location. Over enthusiastic assumption or hopefulness take precedent in most peoples minds or they are just content to go along with a majority view which is also something of a mystery. Theres quite a bit of huddling that just shows people are settling their views and lack scope for a more critical approach. This is more pronounced on the pbwiki. Q4T has a lot more diversity in it's open discussion and many threads, not including the Josh startups. I like Verse 7 for SF. It's still only loosely viable though. Giants, Twain, and the Thinker (idiom for a stone wall) all feel right for SF.

But, it shouldn't be "mystery" anymore especially when we already have 2 successful proven pairs discovered. Yet, people still use their "enthusiastic assumption" to interpret these puzzles...

At stone wall's door - Pier 43, where Chinese Immigrants would arrive after processing on Angel Island The air smells sweet - Immigrants smelling the sweet air of freedom Not far away - Near Pier 43 High posts are three - Balclutha, ship with 3 wood posts for her sails Education and Justice - Galileo HS and Alcatraz For all to see Sounds from the sky - Aquatic Park Speaker Towers Near ace is high - James Polk was the 11th President of the United States, this refers to Polk Street which begins at the Martime Museum in Aquatic Park Running north, but first across - Powell & Hyde Cable Car route, runs across the city East/West until going North on Hyde Street into the Turnaround at Beach & Hyde In jewel's direction - Aquatic Park Is an object Of Twain's attention - Steam Boat paddle wheel on Hyde St Pier Giant pole - East Speaker Tower Giant step - East Bleachers at Aquatic Park To the place - Far East entrance at the top of the East Bleachers The casque is kept. - Under the left hand side of the decorative circles entrance, below the 4th vertical cement bar from the walkway/opening

Goldengate wrote:: Back in 2006-7, the following method was used relating Verse 7 to New Orleans... but has anyone tried it with San Francisco?: "To the place The casque is kept." "Place" has anyone scoured a city map for street names that are "Places" like Telegraph Place, etc? I took a look around and there are some interesting possibilities... while nothing jumped out at me, it may spark something for someone else. I don't think it's a street. If it was part of a street name, it would be capitalized.

Goldengate wrote:: Back in 2006-7, the following method was used relating Verse 7 to New Orleans... but has anyone tried it with San Francisco?: "To the place The casque is kept." "Place" has anyone scoured a city map for street names that are "Places" like Telegraph Place, etc? I took a look around and there are some interesting possibilities... while nothing jumped out at me, it may spark something for someone else. Great minds...! What a coincidence, only a day earlier I had a similar thought and I came up with Genoa Pl. at the foothill of Telegraph hill. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=3682 viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=3694

Yet another perspective on verse 7 If verse 7 belongs to Image 1, I think we’ve been looking at it completely the wrong way. Here, I’m focusing on 1st and last line of the verse, specifically the words “sweet smell” and “To the place”. To me, “sweet smell” expresses success and achievement. Also choice of the words “To the place”, when the writer could simply write “where”. Success is the end result of the search not the beginning. So here’s my interpretation of the lines 1 and 8: Line 8 reads like the title of the step by step directions. “Directions to the place the casque is kept:” And line 1: “sweet success, you’re there” So similar to G and h being reversed, the verse should be read backward too. 8 To the place The casque is kept. 7 Giant pole Giant step 6 Is an object Of Twain's attention 5 Running north, but first across In jewel's direction 4 Sounds from the sky Near ace is high 3 Education and Justice For all to see 2 Not far away High posts are three 1 At stone wall's door The air smells sweet The obvious Giant pole is Coit tower. Using the height of the tower as one unit of Giant, then Giant step, some 200 ft away is Columbus statue which is mark twain attention, or 12 feet tall standing straight. Jewel's direction could be either east (NYC) or line 5 in totality being pier 39 where you shuck oysters for pearl. Yada yada yada, 3 poles being fisherman's wharf sign and stone wall's door ... Hyde pier or Golden Gate Bridge.

SteveMarg wrote:: I don't think it's a street. If it was part of a street name, it would be capitalized. That was my thought as well Steve. I like the way GG and Choice have been trying to breakdown or decipher certain words in these verses but I like your idea of a capitalized letter in that situation. In my solve at the Aquatic Park I see the word "place" as being important in the fact that "place" also means "seat". My dig spot is in between the East Speaker Tower (Giant pole) and the East Bleachers (Giant step).....or the "seat" in this case.

BTW if you unscramble the 8 letters starting 8 lines of the verse you get GRANITES

maltedfalcon wrote:: Ghirardelli is made of brick and Alcatraz is made of cement. neither has stone walls. which location fits stone walls door? however the gateway at the palace is granite. From 2012 ^ if you unscramble the 8 letters starting 8 lines of the verse you get G RANITES

Choice wrote:: if you unscramble the 8 letters starting 8 lines of the verse you get G RANITES ATNHEFSN are the 8 first letters of the first 8 lines of the verse, RIIOGGTT are the 8 first letters starting the 8th line of the verse I tried both and I couldn't get the word like you suggested... Are we using 8 lines from the Verse of the book? or 8 lines from maltedfalcon's post?

Spiritr wrote:: ATNHEFSN are the 8 first letters of the first 8 lines of the verse, RIIOGGTT are the 8 first letters starting the 8th line of the verse I tried both and I couldn't get the word like you suggested... Are we using 8 lines from the Verse of the book? or 8 lines from maltedfalcon's post? 2 stanza? to each line

Choice wrote:: Yet another perspective on verse 7 If verse 7 belongs to Image 1, I think we’ve been looking at it completely the wrong way. Here, I’m focusing on 1st and last line of the verse, specifically the words “sweet smell” and “To the place”. To me, “sweet smell” expresses success and achievement. Also choice of the words “To the place”, when the writer could simply write “where”. Success is the end result of the search not the beginning. So here’s my interpretation of the lines 1 and 8: Line 8 reads like the title of the step by step directions. “Directions to the place the casque is kept:” And line 1: “sweet success, you’re there” So similar to G and h being reversed, the verse should be read backward too. The obvious Giant pole is Coit tower. Using the height of the tower as one unit of Giant, then Giant step, some 200 ft away is Columbus statue which is mark twain attention, or 12 feet tall standing straight. Jewel's direction could be either east (NYC) or line 5 in totality being pier 39 where you shuck oysters for pearl. Yada yada yada, 3 poles being fisherman's wharf sign and stone wall's door ... Hyde pier or Golden Gate Bridge. Seems like the verse does read a lot better in reverse. Going off of reversed G (7) and H (8), could also reverse the verse like this 8 To the place The casque is kept. 6 Is an object Of Twain's attention 4 Sounds from the sky Near ace is high 2 Not far away High posts are three 7 Giant pole Giant step 5 Running north, but first across In jewel's direction 3 Education and Justice For all to see 1 At stone wall's door The air smells sweet

The whole point of reversing the order was because of the reversed h and G. And continuing the pattern (8,7) you'd get 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 I don't get how you come up with the scrambled numbers 8,6,4,2,7,5,3,1.

Choice wrote:: The whole point of reversing the order was because of the reversed h and G. And continuing the pattern (8,7) you'd get 8,7,6,5,4,3,2,1 I don't get how you come up with the scrambled numbers 8,6,4,2,7,5,3,1. Reverse the evens starting from H and then the odds starting with G

Why the heck not! As good as any other hypophysis. In either case, stonewall is the destination. Now SF sea wall could be considered stonewall which covers all east and north coast of the SF bay shores. Door could be the pier entrance or gate i.e. GGB.

not sure if this means anything?? - but in the japanese book there is a picture of James Dean and Dean's last movie was named "Giant"..thoughts?

MERLIN wrote:: not sure if this means anything?? - but in the japanese book there is a picture of James Dean and Dean's last movie was named "Giant"..thoughts? I agree there should be something there (why put images of them in the book otherwise, it makes no sense), and I love that James Deans middle name is Byron Made me wonder about Marilyn Monroe as well - playing in The shocking miss Pilgrim - is set in Boston / music by George Gershwin (has been suggested as rhapsodic man's soil connection to NY)- The Back Bay polka might refer to the Back bay fens. (I know different images & verses , but still...)

"Giant step"?? https://cdn.vox-cdn.com/uploads/chorus_ ... teps.0.jpg hxxp://www.ianchinphotography.com/uploa ... 1_orig.jpg

Or Giants' pet

mariska wrote:: I agree there should be something there (why put images of them in the book otherwise, it makes no sense), and I love that James Deans middle name is Byron Made me wonder about Marilyn Monroe as well - playing in The shocking miss Pilgrim - is set in Boston / music by George Gershwin (has been suggested as rhapsodic man's soil connection to NY)- The Back Bay polka might refer to the Back bay fens. (I know different images & verses , but still...) Monroe may be a clue to Joe DiMaggio Playground, baseball diamond, Jewel's direction from Coit. The North Beach playground was renamed Joe DiMaggio Playground in 1981. I'm going with the reverse reading of the verse 7, from Coit (Giant pole) to stonewall's door (the Cove) as explained in my earlier post.

@Spiritr My alternate solve (reverse verse 7) takes me back to the Galileo high. The only thing I need to figure out is the "posts are three". Direction is from Ghirardelli going south so boat masts or wharf sign don't fit. Anything comes to mind since you went to Galileo? Here's the head of the dragon (a nod to my avatar!): https://tinyurl.com/y7ox2pgh https://tinyurl.com/y7nvufnq Are these trees over 40 years old? Because "posts are three" could mean posts are tree. https://tinyurl.com/y7ny6cxa So near high (school) are 3 trees.

1. To the cask’s location: 2. Start from Coit tower, walk a couple of hundred feet 3. to Columbus statue 4. Go towards Joe DiMaggio Playground then north on Columbus Ave. 5. Get to Ghirardelli clock tower near KFOG 6. Close by is Galileo High and you can see Alcatraz 7. Near high school are 3 old trees 8. You’re at the destination. Sweet smell of success.

So here's my line of thought on "Not far away High posts are three" The way the verse is written, one will associate high with posts i.e. tall wooden posts. However I think this is an attempt to divert you from the real meaning. If you substitute "not far away" with "near" then you can get completely different meaning. Near high, posts are three. Now, high can mean high platform, planter, hill or even high school.

How do you upload an attachment? I can provide the solution for this Verse and the corresponding image.

dp12345 wrote:: How do you upload an attachment? I can provide the solution for this Verse and the corresponding image. If you have an attachment, you have to upload it to a cloud based site like dropbox or Google Drive. Then you create a link on here that points to the file and paste the link into your post.

I have the document saved in my Google Drive. How do you create the link? Sorry for all the questions, this is the first time I have ever posted to a message board.

dp12345 wrote:: I have the document saved in my Google Drive. How do you create the link? Sorry for all the questions, this is the first time I have ever posted to a message board. Go to the file on Google Drive and right click, you should see an option for "Get Sharable Link". Click on that. That will be your working link to the file. Then make a post on here and paste the link into the text box you use to type your message. Should work.

I'm very new to this whole treasure thing. I read a local newspaper article referenced in the document below that brought this to light for me. It took me two days to tie it all out. I submitted this document, as well as a formal request to the National Park Service. As you can probably guess, my request was denied. Whether it is there today or not I have no idea, but it was definitely buried there sometime before the book was published. I would guess he visited St. Louis in July of 1981. I would like to notify his surviving kids, but really have no idea where to start. Byron was actually very clever. Tell me what you think. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QYdcj7 ... sp=sharing

dp12345 wrote:: I'm very new to this whole treasure thing. I read a local newspaper article referenced in the document below that brought this to light for me. It took me two days to tie it all out. I submitted this document, as well as a formal request to the National Park Service. As you can probably guess, my request was denied. Whether it is there today or not I have no idea, but it was definitely buried there sometime before the book was published. I would guess he visited St. Louis in July of 1981. I would like to notify his surviving kids, but really have no idea where to start. Byron was actually very clever. Tell me what you think. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QYdcj7 ... sp=sharing Do you have an explanation for these photos? Pretty convincing just to be coincidence... https://imgur.com/gallery/FnRb2Bo

Honestly, I think Byron used this as a clue to identify the location. The George Stephen House was built with extremely similar visual detail to the Old Courthouse in St. Louis, from the steps to the pillars. It was also constructed during a similar time frame in the 1800's. As you can see, the "leg eater" is not exact. I think it was included for readers to start in the former "Jefferson Expansion National Park" and further direct them to a building of similar visual detail and to focus on the steps. I'm not sure why there are two different versions of the image - one reflecting a fleur-de-lis, and one reflecting a black image. However, the "black blob" certainly looks like the "ah ha" location marker, much like the images in Cleveland and Chicago. I'm not saying my theory is right, but it was fun to think about for a few days.

dp12345 wrote:: but it was definitely buried there sometime before the book was published. I would guess he visited St. Louis in July of 1981. I would like to notify his surviving kids, but really have no idea where to start. Byron was actually very clever. Tell me what you think. I'd say its a good effort for a beginner who is extremely unfamiliar with the hunt. The associated maps and images are very similar. but as we have shown over the last few decades, you can find similar shapes, patterns and designs, image parts that resemble maps and other clues in almost any random city. It turns out to be extremely simple to find a location that matches verse lines and image parts in a general way. Your solution simply ignores things like latitude and longitude clues, known clues (such as the legeater and the fleur-de-lis) and clue methodology that has been found across images and verses in other cities, both un-found and found. and simply put, for anybody to take seriously the thought that St Louis is a possible city without actually finding a casque, you would need to explain logically what other image/verse is the Canadian one. Since we know from Byron that there is a casque in Canada. Your theory uses a city that for all intents and purposes was reviewed in detail and discarded as a possibility years ago. my opinion is your theory is not plausible. While it's obvious if you use this image verse combination to find an actual casque you would be correct but, if you haven't I think you are no where near being able to say "it was definitely buried there sometime before the book was published"

dp12345 wrote:: Honestly, I think Byron used this as a clue to identify the location. The George Stephen House was built with extremely similar visual detail to the Old Courthouse in St. Louis, from the steps to the pillars. It was also constructed during a similar time frame in the 1800's. As you can see, the "leg eater" is not exact. I think it was included for readers to start in the former "Jefferson National Park" and further direct them to a building of similar visual detail and to focus on the steps. I'm not sure why there are two different versions of the image - one reflecting a fleur-de-lis, and one reflecting a black image. However, the "black blob" certainly looks like the "ah ha" location marker, much like the images in Cleveland and Chicago. I'm not saying my theory is right, but it was fun to think about for a few days. The blob was published in the book. The image that shows the fleur de lis is a photo of the actual painting. The black blob was added to cover it up before it was printed. The leg eater is arguably the best and most distinctive image match in the entirety of the puzzles. It is as good as it get as an image match. If you disagree, I understand. Best of luck in St Louis.

dp12345 wrote:: The George Stephen House was built with extremely similar visual detail to the Old Courthouse in St. Louis, from the steps to the pillars Saying stuff like this doesn't help your argument. The George Stephen House is Rusticated Georgian architecture. the Court house is neo grecian architecture. so yes they have windows and stairs, and doors, but they are not visually similar in any other consideration.... You are forcing your matches. going so far as to infer that one inspired the other or BP used one to reference the other is outright silly.

Sorry I didn't mean to stomp on any preconceived ideas about where this thing could be located. I just had a few days of fun tying out this verse and image. Is it perfect? No. Was it fun? Absolutely. This just came to me after reading a newspaper article. I hope it was still a fun read and may help others finish it out in Montreal, California, New York, St. Louis or wherever.

I might try to stop by the Old Courthouse this week. There are a plenty of old lamps and light fixtures in and around the building. If I see one that looks like a dog eating a leg, I'll snap a picture. Sorry again if I upset anyone in this forum. Cheers.

Don't confuse them with ankle-biters

dp12345 wrote:: Sorry I didn't mean to stomp on any preconceived ideas about where this thing could be located. I just had a few days of fun tying out this verse and image. Is it perfect? No. Was it fun? Absolutely. This just came to me after reading a newspaper article. I hope it was still a fun read and may help others finish it out in Montreal, California, New York, St. Louis or wherever. You have absolutely nothing to be sorry about. nobody took any offense at you ideas or theories. You asked for people to tell you what we think, I did, i'm sorry if I upset you and please don't stop hunting. Remember you have found exactly the same number of casques as I have.

maltedfalcon wrote:: You have absolutely nothing to be sorry about. nobody took any offense at you ideas or theories. You asked for people to tell you what we think, I did, i'm sorry if I upset you and please don't stop hunting. Remember you have found exactly the same number of casques as I have. How about this... I have reviewed this thread in it's entirety, and I have reviewed much of the others. Yesterday I stopped by the Gateway Arch National Park and walked around the Arch grounds as well as the Old Courthouse and obviously no sign of a "leg eater". However, something has been bothering me about that image for some time now. Why did he change the face to look more like a fox/dog and why does part of the horse leg extend outside the box? It seems that in all cases, Preiss obscured his true intent with other more obvious images (e.g. In the Chicago find, the windmill had a similar architecture to the watertower and the image of the fairy was actually similar to the sculpture in the park). Additionally, he used street coordinates to help identify an exact location (e.g. "and to Congress R is known"). I'm not convinced that the "leg eater" is intended to represent an actual "leg eater". It is an extremely obscure Italian design. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure JJP and/or Preiss had visited Montreal or Italy to see this type of Italian Renaissance detail and likely used it to further challenge readers to solve the puzzle. As I walked across the street yesterday, I noticed that the Old Courthouse is located at the corner of Chestnut and Broadway. It just so happens that one of the most famous landmarks in St. Louis is The Fabulous Fox theater which opened in 1929 and is known for being 'The best of broadway'. Not so coincidentally the only piece of the horse leg inside the box is the hock which appears to have a mark on it. It may look like a crease, but look closely, it doesn't extend to the rear of the hock. These marks are referred to as "chestnuts". The remainder of the leg extending outside the box is to show the reader that the leg is that of a horse, and it helps to form the bootheel of Missouri in the black negative space. However, the clues are INSIDE the boxes. I think he was trying to put readers where Broadway meets Chestnut, which is the location of The Old Courthouse. I know this sounds like a stretch, but it seemed that he loved to use hidden coordinates, and this certainly would explain why the boxes exist. Also, it goes without saying that the fleur-de-lis is the official symbol of St. Louis, as it is even present on the city's flag. Again, just another theory, but pretty plausible.

Many many people have reviewed the legeater and 99.99% accept it as being exact or so close as to not matter. yes there are many many examples of that style around, (seemingly none in St Louis though) But it is taken as a given to be a match for The St Stephen club legeater. When you add that to the fact that in the 1980s about every 10 feet along the fence around the club were large Fleur De Lis. you have a combination clue that basically is almost irrefutable. of course that is not true because you are refuting it. but you get my point.

I am absolutely not refuting the fact that the image is an almost 100% match for the lamp base at the George Stephen House and other lamp bases in the same style. I am simply looking at the clue in a different way. If it truly does represent the lamp base in Montreal, it would be one of the most prominent, non-obscured clues within all 12 images, as most just have some likeness. The box separating the leg appears to be a purposeful distinction. Being relatively new to this, has a location been determined for the Montreal casque?

"Legeater" IMO is nod to Satyr. It appears at the bottom of the even pages of the book from 22 to 32.

The Secret, San Francisco Solution by slowrisingwhitebread Painting 1, Verse 7 Here is my solution to the San Francisco puzzle. Please go through the proper channels if you choose to dig at this spot. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KJGKIiH97ksPLJIXXsW3V1OEP6pad4f_bjcy4-oqvzE/edit?usp=sharing

What's missing from your solution is any waymarkers supported by the image. Please post a few solid image comparisons for landmarks in the image 1 thread.

Choice wrote:: What's missing from your solution is any waymarkers supported by the image. Please post a few solid image comparisons for landmarks in the image 1 thread. I've had some difficulty adding images to the site, so I've updated my file instead.

I have two problems with your solution 1 The verse specifically says Giant step, not Giant Steps, which is a huge difference in meaning. This totally negates the end of your theory. 2 you solution leads to a vague general area. and from experience we know a vague general area is the same as no solution at all. Its obvious for a solution to be valid it has to narrow down to a specific spot. Both Chicago and Cleveland narrowed down to less than 3 square feet. (arguably less than 1 square foot)

I like the very beginning of this theory. Also, "A rose by any other name would smell as sweet" --Shakespeare.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I have two problems with your solution 1 The verse specifically says Giant step, not Giant Steps, which is a huge difference in meaning. This totally negates the end of your theory. 2 you solution leads to a vague general area. and from experience we know a vague general area is the same as no solution at all. Its obvious for a solution to be valid it has to narrow down to a specific spot. Both Chicago and Cleveland narrowed down to less than 3 square feet. (arguably less than 1 square foot) Where’s the fun in narrowing down a solution to very small area? Vague general areas have built in excuses that keep the theory alive. Every terrible solution of high quality should have you going back to dig more holes, each one larger in size.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I have two problems with your solution 1 The verse specifically says Giant step, not Giant Steps, which is a huge difference in meaning. This totally negates the end of your theory. 2 you solution leads to a vague general area. and from experience we know a vague general area is the same as no solution at all. Its obvious for a solution to be valid it has to narrow down to a specific spot. Both Chicago and Cleveland narrowed down to less than 3 square feet. (arguably less than 1 square foot) 1. I think that's splitting hairs. I don't think you can definitely rule it out just because you don't like the wording. The "Giant Steps" I put on the picture was a typo. Additionally, the word step can also be used to indicate a journey. I think that's the real meaning here. The fact that you have to walk up a flight of steps to complete it is wordplay. 2. When you look at the actual area I propose, it's not vague at all. It does fit into about 3 square feet (maybe a tad larger). Most of the area I defined is hillside. There is only a little bit of flat land on that slope. That is where I would dig. But ultimately I really don't care. I could be wrong, but I think it's a pretty good shot at a solution. I'm not going to San Francisco to dig it up, so I figured I'd put it out to the universe and see if anyone closer or more inclined wanted to check it out. edited to add clarity to Steps argument.

Appreciate the theory. Always fun to see new thoughts. I think Malted Falcon was saying... well, I don't want to put words in his mouth. What I'm saying is that in the Cleveland solve, Preiss referred to steps as "steps." If he's going to then refer to steps as "step" in another verse... what are we even doing here? If you have a master's in communication from Stanford and yet you can't keep from shifting between plural and singular... that's nutso. It's like trying to solve a cryptogram where the letter "A" represents both "B" and "C" My main issue with your solve is that there is no "smoking gun." By which I mean, all of the conclusions drawn are based on generalizations found everywhere. There have to be 10,000 lampposts that are near steps in SF, it's built on hills. There are many parks, coastlines, rocks, monuments, etc. that sort-of match the shape of the woman and her shoulders. There are three high posts everywhere: A common architectural style is "high point in the middle, then two symmetrical points on the side." Also, have you ever dug on a hillside? Hills aren't formed because soft soil stacks up. They are a thin layer of topsoil on cliff rock. Again, I really enjoyed your theory and I like your name, too. I do think that a random hill being represented in the picture is far-fetched, though: How would anyone in 1980 be able to recognize a hill that Preiss took a polaroid of, sent the polaroid to JJP, had JJP make the hill, then had it resized by the printing process (none of these images were done in the exact dimensions of the original book pages.) That's why Preiss chose extremely distinct landmarks in the Chicago/Cleveland solves: It would be impossible to expect someone to recognize a nondescript hill after all of the conversions required by publishing. Keep posting though, I love your thoughts!

Yeah! what he said.... ditto That being all said... that hill/ park (especially the other side, has had quite a few people consider it and check it out. that being said, it is a possibility but what drunknerds was saying once you are there, there is no stand out Ah ha! this is it object or view or clue. Just a lot of well this could be that or this could be that.... so after exploring the area most people move on... Feel free to prove us all wrong!

Another life-threatening place? Arguably if it's close to the beach or rising tides and storm waves and if there were any cavities, they would be filled with sand and impossible to recover without dredging equipment.

I don't think you'll receive any reply from the publisher since the company went bankrupt and I doubt the people that purchased their assets know anything about the solutions. You should go visit the location when it's stormy. Tons of sand gets moved around. I remember visiting China beach decades ago. It's in much calmer area. I was on top of the large rock next to the drain pipe taking pictures and a massive wave nearly knocked me off of it. Maybe it will be helpful if you post some of your photos.

sluggozim61 wrote:: Did you know the capitalizations in the verse spell out a clue? "FARTHEST JOINT IN GG"... No. The capital letters spell ATNHEJFSNRIIOTGGTT . What you've done is anagram them, which is a weak technique in any puzzle hunt, due to the myriad ways they can be rearranged. Without a pattern or explicit instructions, it's just a scramble.

catherwood wrote:: No. The capital letters spell ATNHEJFSNRIIOTGGTT . What you've done is anagram them, which is a weak technique in any puzzle hunt, due to the myriad ways they can be rearranged. Without a pattern or explicit instructions, it's just a scramble. True dat. I came up with GRANITES moving around the 1st letter of the 8 ines of the verse. (2 segments or stanzas per line)

sluggozim61 wrote:: So, I post a completely new solution rationale and clues that no one else has ever even found nor considered in nearly 40 years, and that's the reply i get? Dredging. Why didn't I think of that,while I was researching if material subduction of the Pacific plate has occurred in that area as it moved north in the last 40 years? The answer is, not really. I have physically been to Mile Rock Beach a month ago, taken the stairs down from popular Lands End trail and have no fear of tides. High tide at the cliff face was about 2 feet. It is quite rocky at the cliff face and not subject to sand accumulation. I just need to find that arched formation in the rocks. Recent pictures on social media shows lots of exposed "beach" at low tide. The pictures I took show cavities and folds in the cliff face, some of them draining as the waves retreat. My concern is that the capstone was dislodged and the sealed casque floated out. I sent this specific location and rationale to the publishing company. Time will tell. In the meantime, find the Orbs in the illustrations. They are small 3D spheres, silver/grey, with a shine spot in the upper right portion of the object, visible to the naked eye. They are placed in 3D "scenes", think 80s hologram collector cards, hovering above or at where the casque is located. I validated this by finding the orbs and scenes in the Cleveland and Chicago pictures. Much easier to find as I knew what landmarks I was looking for. Look at every shadow and shade shift in the artwork. change orientations and visual scale. incredible the amount of detail that is in the paint, even at the less than desirable resolution we have to work with. Good luck. I think people have considered that area and for various reasons convinced themselves that it was out of the question. One point, in the book it is clearly stated that the casques are not buried in life threatening locations. If we look at the other examples of both where they were found, and other really well thought out theories of where they might be, all of the locations are accessible to most everyone and relatively stable areas. I hardly think that Byron Preiss went all Rambo and repelled down the face of a cliff to stuff a casque in a cave that is below the waterline at high tide. Just saying. What would be better IMHO is if you want to share some concepts and see what people think, do so, but remember that the theories may be subject to criticism, sometimes harshly. Second thing, if you haven't already, read the threads. There are people who have searched for years and may have visited every site you are thinking about. Ask questions. Third, you may need to accept that people will hate your ideas. It's human nature. In that case, you can either stick around or leave the forum. They are not being ugly toward you, it's just either the content or presentation. You have to remember that many, many people have come to this forum claiming this and that theories without getting to know anyone and then disappear.

I don't think we were harsh at all. We just pointed out a few issues that you just bullet pointed. Again, a few pictures of SAFE locations that you're considering would be very helpful.

sluggozim61 wrote:: OMG. You are right. I do not belong here. Y'all are not ready. Bye. Good night and good luck.

sluggozim61 wrote:: OMG. You are right. I do not belong here. Y'all are not ready. Bye. Scared off another one G!

sluggozim61 wrote:: So, I post a completely new solution rationale and clues that no one else has ever even found nor considered in nearly 40 years, Actually this is a ridiculous claim. Lands end has been searched dozens of times. from years ago to searches this summer.

It is really funny to watch these type of users come and go from the board. When reading the posts, they all sound alike. sluggozim61, funsun, JC and others. They all seem to have this quack mentality and just can't take an ounce of criticism. I AM RIGHT. I WORKED THIS THEORY ALL WEEK. HOW DARE YOU CRITICIZE ME. I EMAILED THE PUBLISHER, SO HA! BESIDES, A VAGUE REFERENCE TO A VAGUE REFERENCE TO A VAGUE REFERENCE TO A VAGUE REFERENCE MEANS I FOUND THE CASQUE. AND I DID IT IN 3 HOURS 37 MINUTES AND 12 SECONDS. I AM RIGHT. I KNOW I AM. THE PIECE OF TOAST I HAD THIS MORNING CAME OUT OF THE TOASTER WITH AN IMAGE OF BYRON SO I KNOW I AM RIGHT... End caps.. LMFAO. Regards, Mac

Don't pop a fuse Mac daddy!

LOL!!! I was cracking myself up... people are waaaaay too serious sometimes when it comes to their theories!! Regards, Mac

Interesting read - possible "stone wall's door" hxxp://www.sfcityguides.org/public_guid ... =&topic=B#

My office was a couple of blocks from the Dominican college in SR. Took many traffic school classes there! I just don't see it's importance in SF. I'm scared of your mother superior and her ruler tho! Now if you consider the "cone" on her dress with a couple of birds nipping at it to be the Vatican's cone of Belvedere (Belvedere island horn over the rose) then maybe! https://imgur.com/a/CNPe5H4

I was thinking more of the grotto - a while back people were trying to link the image to the Madonna of the rocks painting - the grotto made me think of that and the rose in the image. Of course it could just be the egg nogg talking hxxp://www.sfcityguides.org/images/guid ... toRose.jpg

Don't blame it on eggnog! Are those christmas lights around her head? Wish there were 11.

How about 12 moons https://www.google.com/maps/place/Saint ... 22.4652695

Now that's eggnog!

MERLIN wrote:: I was thinking more of the grotto - a while back people were trying to link the image to the Madonna of the rocks painting - the grotto made me think of that and the rose in the image. Of course it could just be the egg nogg talking hxxp://www.sfcityguides.org/images/guid ... toRose.jpg Here's a way to connect the Image to grotto!: 11 moons ===> month of November ===> November root from Roman calendar's 9th month (novem=9) ===> famous San Francisco's #9 https://tinyurl.com/y97pew73

Japanese Hint to the verse "High posts are three" Or the hint "wooden posts" This all depends on where you are in the area or a location in SF. I tend to believe that this section of the stanza is down at the wharf area. Here's why Standing at Ghirardelli Square looking down at the Aquatic park cove, back in 1980 the ship C.A. was docked, this ship was a three mast(wooden posts) wooded hull schooner that was designed to carry lumber(large posts) up and down the coast. The Balcutha, was also docked at the wharf but at pier 43, which you can not see form Ghirardelli Square. although both ships would fit the verse and put you in the same area. "not far" would suggest that you can see this object that is "high posts" from the "wall or the area of "sweet" By the placement of the either ship it would set you up for the next line in the verse "Education and Justice for all to see"

Goonie68 wrote:: Japanese Hint to the verse "High posts are three" Or the hint "wooden posts" This all depends on where you are in the area or a location in SF. I tend to believe that this section of the stanza is down at the wharf area. Here's why Standing at Ghirardelli Square looking down at the Aquatic park cove, back in 1980 the ship C.A. was docked, this ship was a three mast(wooden posts) wooded hull schooner that was designed to carry lumber(large posts) up and down the coast. The Balcutha, was also docked at the wharf but at pier 43, which you can not see form Ghirardelli Square. although both ships would fit the verse and put you in the same area. "not far" would suggest that you can see this object that is "high posts" from the "wall or the area of "sweet" By the placement of the either ship it would set you up for the next line in the verse "Education and Justice for all to see" You need to stop bringing logic into this thread.

gManTexas wrote:: You need to stop bringing logic into this thread.

The air smells sweet - "Dolce far Niente" is an Italian phrase meaning "It's sweet doing nothing". This structure was build about 1881 under the direction of Adolph Sutro. hxxp://www.cliffhouseproject.com/enviro ... /dolce.htm

MERLIN wrote:: The air smells sweet - "Dolce far Niente" is an Italian phrase meaning "It's sweet doing nothing". This structure was build about 1881 under the direction of Adolph Sutro. hxxp://www.cliffhouseproject.com/enviro ... /dolce.htm What a great find on the photos. I was driving up the Great highway and looking up I saw what looked like an old stone wall up on the hill above the Cliff House. I took a photo at the stop light. I haven't looked over that photo yet. It looks like the one in the old cliffhouseproject photos.

prospector wrote:: What a great find on the photos. I was driving up the Great highway and looking up I saw what looked like an old stone wall up on the hill above the Cliff House. I took a photo at the stop light. I haven't looked over that photo yet. It looks like the one in the old cliffhouseproject photos. Is this the wall you saw? There is also a stone wall and what appears to be a door? Good luck!

Goonie68 wrote:: Is this the wall you saw? There is also a stone wall and what appears to be a door? Good luck! Oddly enough, I have been looking for a wall exactly like that. I bought a copy of the 1982 edition and was able to tease out a few things that I thought were something else. Do you or anyone else know if and what the history of any digging was in that area of Sutro heights?

Oddly enough, I have been looking for a wall exactly like that. I bought a copy of the 1982 edition and was able to tease out a few things that I thought were something else. Do you or anyone else know if and what the history of any digging was in that area of Sutro heights?[/quote][/quote][/quote] Not sure if any digging has happen on that site, Maltedfalcon might have better info on if any diggings went on there?

Thanks Goonie.

Great pics Goonie! - I had not seen the wall from that angle yet - thank you

Goonie68 wrote:: Is this the wall you saw? There is also a stone wall and what appears to be a door? Good luck! That looks a lot like what I saw on the Gh. Is this a recent photo of the area and is the the park at the Sutro Park? I think a lot more brush has grown around that area. If it is the same wall it can be seen while digging in many places.

If the dragon's head is a wolf's head and it's nose is pointing to that area, that makes it a pointing lobo!

Wow, great as usual Goonie. So, can the cliff house pole's former location be seen from anywhere there? Take a giant step toward the giant pole (which was an object of Twain's attention) and dig. Now we just have to figure out where to stand.

Looks like someone took a peek behind that door.

[quote="prospector" That looks a lot like what I saw on the Gh. Is this a recent photo of the area and is the the park at the Sutro Park? I think a lot more brush has grown around that area. If it is the same wall it can be seen while digging in many places.[/quote][/quote][/quote] The picture was taken in May of last year.

drunknerds wrote:: Wow, great as usual Goonie. So, can the cliff house pole's former location be seen from anywhere there? Take a giant step toward the giant pole (which was an object of Twain's attention) and dig. Now we just have to figure out where to stand. Here is the location of the wall door in relation to the Cliff house. The wall/door sits below the lookout area, it is covered by trees so no view of the Cliff house from that vantage point.

what I like about this wall is that it sits above the hillside where I found the face in the rocks.

Also the entrance to the trail has lions with similar paws on the cliff. ADDED: BTW does anyone know what's in the middle of this island/circle? Got any photos to share? https://tinyurl.com/yd8vth7o

[quote="Choice"]Also the entrance to the trail has lions with similar paws on the cliff. ADDED: BTW does anyone know what's in the middle of this island/circle? Got any photos to share? It appears to be a bird bath or fountain, I found it from a different angle: https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7778244 ... 192!8i4096

Great AT, I remember messing around that area in the 80's. The remnants of Sutro urns and statues were all over the place. Very little has survived. I've seen the pics of statue of a woman holding a deer by the antler? And the lions and the round fountain.

atdreamer2112 wrote:: It appears to be a bird bath or fountain, I found it from a different angle: {long URL} another close-up shot. https://s3-media2.fl.yelpcdn.com/bphoto ... g/168s.jpg Older* photos show a tall structure in the center, so this is just the base that remains. * (older as in black&white, not circa 1980 but much older)

Here is a pic up close

That's a right size Margarita glass Goonie. So "Giant pole, giant step" = 2 X Giant, pole step = Giants speel top (anagram) meaning climb to the top.

Choice wrote:: That's a right size Margarita glass Goonie. So "Giant pole, giant step" = 2 X Giant, pole step = Giants speel top (anagram) meaning climb to the top. That is a Margarita glass, you should see the size of the chips!

Giant bowl, Giant stem, To the place The guac' is kept. (rimshot)

Goonie68 wrote:: That is a Margarita glass, you should see the size of the chips! Or the salting bowl!

Hey Goonie, any progress on your Washington square solve? Have you narrowed the search area or nailed down Twain's attn.? I’ve been thinking (a very dangerous exercise); in this area the church itself could be considered the object of Twain’s attention. I’m getting Romulus and Remus involved. Here’s why: • Saints Peter and Paul Church is a Roman Catholic Church • Romulus and Remus were the hero-twin founders of pre-Christian Rome • Saints Peter and Paul replaced them as the hero-twin founders of the new Christian Rome. You almost always see them depicted together. • Capital T in Twain signifies names of persons, and twain of course twin or two • Attention means standing straight like a tower So Twain’s attention could mean twin towers, in this location named after Peter and Paul, the hero-twin of Christianity.

Choice wrote:: Hey Goonie, any progress on your Washington square solve? Have you narrowed the search area or nailed down Twain's attn.? I’ve been thinking (a very dangerous exercise); in this area the church itself could be considered the object of Twain’s attention. I’m getting Romulus and Remus involved. Here’s why: • Saints Peter and Paul Church is a Roman Catholic Church • Romulus and Remus were the hero-twin founders of pre-Christian Rome • Saints Peter and Paul replaced them as the hero-twin founders of the new Christian Rome. You almost always see them depicted together. • Capital T in Twain signifies names of persons, and twain of course twin or two • Attention means standing straight like a tower So Twain’s attention could mean twin towers, in this location named after Peter and Paul, the hero-twin of Christianity. I do like the church and think that it plays into the puzzle. For me I like the Transamerica Pyramid (object) and Montgomery block (Twain's attention) which the Pyramid sits on. Though you can see the Pyramid from Washington Square you don't need to be standing in front of it. Once you cross Columbus Ave you walk towards the Pyramid, until you get a line of site of the Giant Pole and Giant step, this puts you on Union St, IMO is why the Yin and Yang is in the image to represent Union, or in this case Union St. At the corner of Union and Columbus you see, Twain's object (Transamerica), Giant Pole and Giant step. I personal don't think Twain has to do with a number or a boat or a book. I believe the reason why the author used Twain was to tie him to SF and Montgomery Block, where he became Mark Twain and the people who influenced his direction to become the literary Icon that we know.

Have you considered that "but first across" could mean "but first a cross"? If by "first across" he meant Columbus, why the "but"?

Choice wrote:: Have you considered that "but first across" could mean "but first a cross"? If by "first across" he meant Columbus, why the "but"? It could be, or the verse is giving you a direction, but first you cross.

Goonie68 wrote:: It could be, or the verse is giving you a direction, but first you cross. Someone give this man a gold star! direct thinking is the way to go and best bet at a solve. Someday

Question for the Golden Gate Park fans: Has anyone considered the Thomas Starr King monument as the digsite? Massive rose Missouri granite base Spirals Pole Freemason Granites code https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/g ... -2012.html hxxp://www.yeodoug.com/resources/dc_fre ... _king.html https://tinyurl.com/yyjq9ydc At intersection of JFK Dr. and Hagiwara Tea Garden Dr.

For GGP seekers: Reporter claims a cable company with ground penetrating radar knows where it is. States this near 2:17 in the video. Can we find out where they have been working? https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/03/04/treasure-hunters-san-francisco-golden-gate-park/ He also says if you have any ideas on the location he will get dig permits for you.

Jordan wrote:: For GGP seekers: Reporter claims a cable company with ground penetrating radar knows where it is. States this near 2:17 in the video. Can we find out where they have been working? https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/03/04/treasure-hunters-san-francisco-golden-gate-park/ He also says if you have any ideas on the location he will get dig permits for you. These inevitably end up wrong. We have literally hundreds of pieces of data on this. Even if they found something with GPR, it's most likely a rock.

I offer Expedition Unknown as exhibit A.

Choice wrote:: I offer Expedition Unknown as exhibit A. I was thinking the same thing. It could just be a tile or some rock.

Any thoughts on why "Justice" is capitalized? Do you think it is a name or is it a statue of Lady Justice?

Durian wrote:: It's a clue we're likely talking about a proper noun, as in "Alcatraz," a likely match IMO. That would fit the window in the rock in image 1.

Hotel Mark Twain has an interesting address: 345 Taylor St. Taylor, 12th president I - II - III - IV - V https://tinyurl.com/yxnf7ty6

I think this has been gone over before. Some believe it is for a flag. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one Nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all People have dug some places in Golden Gate Park, like at the flagpole near the Senior Center. I am not sure of other digs around the City. I tried to document how many places people have put the shovel in the ground but it is too confusing. There are a lot of places where people have dug holes. I really wish we knew how many holes have been dug just in Golden Gate Park. I think people have dug up at the Legion of Honor, for example.

I've been looking at the McKinley Monument that actually ties in with "The Republic" https://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/32289

prospector wrote:: I think this has been gone over before. Some believe it is for a flag. I pledge allegiance to the Flag of the United States of America and to the Republic for which it stands one Nation under God Indivisible with liberty and justice for all People have dug some places in Golden Gate Park, like at the flagpole near the Senior Center. I am not sure of other digs around the City. I tried to document how many places people have put the shovel in the ground but it is too confusing. There are a lot of places where people have dug holes. I really wish we knew how many holes have been dug just in Golden Gate Park. I think people have dug up at the Legion of Honor, for example. If it was a reference to the Pledge of Allegiance why would justice be capitalized. It is never capitalized in the allegiance. It has to be a pronoun or a mistake. I believe it is a pronoun and we should be looking for a Justice as a name or title, or the figure of Justice with the scales. The Francis Scott Key monument has Columbia on top, not Justice.

I tend to agree with Dominick that capital J implies a name. Justice may refer to Bill of Rights. Mason St., even though was named after Richard Mason, his father George Mason is known as father of the Bill of Rights. And lots of masonry works in that area i.e. brick buildings. Also justice may refer to name of a judge.

Lets see...! The rock may be cliff house. Twain's attention may be ferry steamboat. Justice, Mason. https://tinyurl.com/y2orx35k

If I were to follow the dragon map and assume the "stonewall's door" is the dragon's mouth (cove) then I'd start at Gh. area, go east towards 3 wooden posts (Wharf sign) and then "Education/Justice for all to see". Goonie brought this up before. Education and Justice is an intersection of E and J streets. Embarcadero and Jefferson. https://tinyurl.com/y3zjxw36

Durian wrote:: I don't think we need to over-complicate this. Yes 'Justice' may refer to many things, but the image: 1) Contains a barred window in surroundings that strongly resemble the ruins on Alcatraz. 2) Is patterned after The Madonna of the Rocks . It's a pun to get us thinking 'The Rock.' Just like the Chicago painting was patterned after Girl with the Pearl EarRING , getting us thinking about the Loop District. Also, Alcatraz happens to be prominently visible (...for all to see...) across the water from the waterfront. It's just sitting there all alone, surrounded by water, similar to the image. Plus, if you stand in Aquatic Park and spin yourself in a circle, you can view the Ghirardelli sign, a steamboat (by far the closest match in The City to a Twain reference), Angel Island (immigration reference), and a cable car turnaround. So, could 'Justice' be something other than Alcatraz? Certainly. But any of these other things under discussion—which are no where to be found in the image, or referenced anywhere in the verse beyond tenuous conjecture over a single word—is anywhere near as likely. The puzzle is hard enough. There's no reason not to use the clues we've been given. Put together a solution that connects the rest of the verse/image pairing logically, sequentially, and geographically to the Bill of Rights, the flag, or the Pledge, and I will be seriously impressed... I can see the Alcatraz reference in image 1, but everything else in the image seems to point to Golden Gate Park. I have shown the image to many people from the area that have never heard of the book or anything and all of the say the dress looks like Golden Gate Park. Some even point out crossover drive where her arms crossover the dress. I will be surprised in it is not in the park.

I was looking back over the 2 solved images and verses and I noticed that both had a line that referenced something in the image. Verse 4 has “Seek the columns” and Image 4 has columns. Verse 12 has “Fence and fixture” and that is what was in Image 5. So when I am matching an image to a verse I try so see what could be referenced in the verse that is also in the image. What is that reference for Image 1 and Verse 7? Some say the “Giant poll” is the rose stem. Could it be something else or is this nothing at all?

Dominick wrote:: I was looking back over the 2 solved images and verses and I noticed that both had a line that referenced something in the image. Verse 4 has “Seek the columns” and Image 4 has columns. Verse 12 has “Fence and fixture” and that is what was in Image 5. So when I am matching an image to a verse I try so see what could be referenced in the verse that is also in the image. What is that reference for Image 1 and Verse 7? Some say the “Giant poll” is the rose stem. Could it be something else or is this nothing at all? Stone wall's door

It doesn't match as good as the image 4 or 5.

Another interpretation of the "Twain" line: Up and first word across.

I just want to throw out my theory that I am working on. I am using this verse with image one and I am searching in Golden Gate Park. I think it is in Shakespeare's Garden. I think that the bust of Shakespeare is the an "Object of of Twain's attention". I know that some hunters see this bust as the first line "At stone wall's door." I do not for three reasons. 1st, it is not really a door or a doorway, it is a shelf. 2nd, there were 2 doors in 1982 not one door. 3rd, this is a brick wall not a stone wall. I think that many people saw this "stone wall's door" theory on The Secret forum and have taken it as fact. It has never sat right with me. The more I look into Shakespeare's Garden the more I believe it is the treasure location. Has anyone dug here at all?

Could the "The air smell sweet" be a reference to Boudin bakery. I have been there many times and the air around that bakery smells very sweet. I can make everything fit in this verse except the "Giant pole."

Dominick wrote:: Could the "The air smell sweet" be a reference to Boudin bakery. I have been there many times and the air around that bakery smells very sweet. I can make everything fit in this verse except the "Giant pole." Fisherman's wharf or 10th ave?

Choice wrote:: Fisherman's wharf or 10th ave? The one right next to the Wharf sign.

I think "Giant pole Giant step" both describe one thing/place i.e. Giant step-pole. An example would be at the tea garden; the tall pagoda is called a stupa.

Possible. I think it is, go to a giant pole and take a giant step in the direction of Twain's attention. Do you think the dig spot is in the image or in the verse?

Dominick wrote:: Could the "The air smell sweet" be a reference to Boudin bakery. I have been there many times and the air around that bakery smells very sweet. I can make everything fit in this verse except the "Giant pole." At stone wall's door The air smells sweet I believe this line refers to Pier 43 where immigrants would come into SF from Angel Island. Also when Prisoners would be released from Alcatraz the boat would generally come to Pier 43. So "The air smells sweet" refers to Freedom as opposed to an actual smell in my solve.

MrBackstop wrote:: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet I believe this line refers to Pier 43 where immigrants would come into SF from Angel Island. Also when Prisoners would be released from Alcatraz the boat would generally come to Pier 43. So "The air smells sweet" refers to Freedom as opposed to an actual smell in my solve. Also you can smell the Boudin Bakery from where this pic was taken from. Further down the road is 3 high post in the Wharf sign. I think Education and Justice are Alcatraz (once a prison now a place to visit and learn). Sounds from the sky are seagulls. Ace is high running north but first across is the Golden Gate Bridge (highway 1 running north but first across the bay). Twain's attention is Eureka! Now I need a pole. I am not 100 on this. I am just throwing out ideas. I want people to tare my theory apart. I was completely focused on GGP. But the only thing that I can see that leads me to the park is the dress but what if the dress is just be a rectangle.

If you start at G43 then the plausible dig area is Russian hill park that reverse Gh is (was) visible. It corresponds with Lombard street's nose (dragon) in the image.

Choice wrote:: If you start at G43 then the plausible dig area is Russian hill park that reverse Gh is (was) visible. It corresponds with Lombard street's nose (dragon) in the image. Is there a giant pole? I am not as familiar with that park. I have seen it on the map.

IDK, but again I suggest that pole and step may not be literal items but a word puzzle, anagram or street name.

Do you think the casque location is hidden in the image. It seems to me that other verses gave instructions on where to dig and the images gave the city and image verifies for the dig site. Instruction on where to dig should be in the verse. Find a giant pole and take a giant step and you are on top of the treasure.

IMO if that was the case you start from the end and just look for a pole and you wouldn't need any other clue. Find a pole, probe 4 feet around it and go to next. And it would be solved 40 yrs ago.

Choice wrote:: Refer to the image link below. Thanks. When you used "clock" I thought you meant the clock in the image. My mistake!

GoldenMartyr wrote:: Thanks. When you used "clock" I thought you meant the clock in the image. My mistake! GoldenMartyr wrote:: Xinef No, the six o'clock means back of the wall. Should we throw a coming out party Fenix?!

Josh Jr. wrote:: Should we throw a coming out party Fenix?! Sure thing. Perhaps I can go 50/50 with your parents on a venue and do it at the same time as your Quinceañera.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: Sure thing. Perhaps I can go 50/50 with your parents on a venue and do it at the same time as your Quinceañera. Gold.

I wasn't asking you to convince me. Here is the thing about image matches. They kind of have to match or you created a really poor puzzle. Is there some artistic interpretation allowed, sure, why not on certain things. Say you want to put a boy hanging from a monument in a painting. You can probably alter that slightly because how many monuments have boys hanging off of them. I suppose my point is this, when you have an image match, you won't have to convince anybody. I feel like the same iconic people who have done such a wonderful job of showing us all that the puzzles have a start, middle, and ending have also tricked everybody into believing these paintings are actually just Highlights Magazine Hidden Picture pages. If you don't get the reference, please look it up. This is what 90% of the people looking at these puzzles are doing.

Unknown: I feel like the same iconic people who have done such a wonderful job of showing us all that the puzzles have a start, middle, and ending have also tricked everybody into believing these paintings are actually just Highlights Magazine Hidden Picture pages. Sadly, most people come to this conclusion all on their own. No tricks (other than by the master himself) required.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: I suppose my point is this, when you have an image match, you won't have to convince anybody.

Durian wrote:: ...Nothing is a 'great' match, because that's the way JJP designed the puzzle. {embedded images} And I still haven't seen any potential dig site matching the image more closely than the San Carlos rock/plaque: {embedded images} BTW, these are all in my opinion just as valid matches—if not more so—than this: {embedded image} I personally hate having to scroll past embedded images, as I usually miss the snippets of text inbetween. I would also be very careful with your statement of "that's the way JJP designed the puzzle" because he did not design the puzzles at all. He was hired to paint images at the direction of Preiss, who was the only author of the puzzles (as far as I understand).

Durian wrote:: So what are you saying exactly? Are you saying you don't believe the images have much stuff from the physical reality of what you'd see when you're on the ground? Are you saying that each image has maybe a couple key items—maybe an object or two and a dig site—but most of the rest is just filler? I'm saying that Cleveland and Chicago were basically Highlight's Mag hidden picture puzzles. Find a handful of onsite visual matches in the painting, add some coordinates, a map, and you are done with the painting. Newsflash, all 12 paintings do not work like this. Please show me the multiple visual matches in Boston, St. Augustine, and Houston. I'm sorry, a part of a mountain that kind of looks like a rock onsite does not work. Tying the curved top portion of a woman's head to a very specific arch does not work. Finding miniature pixel animals in a scan of a scan of a scan, does not work.

Unknown: -- Also, regardless of what things in the image may actually represent, IMO most of the detail in the image is supposed to represent something, similar to Chicago and Cleveland. To me, it's a simple question of intentionality. Why did the artist do things in the detailed way he did? -- These were all choices JJP made, and I'd argue that these are clues to something, no? I'd also argue we shouldn't discount small things in the SF image. -- Seems to me like a lot of work to include detail on this level if it's not intended for us to look at. Also, I agree with you that not all the paintings will work in the same manner. I haven't really worked the other puzzles much, so I can't comment on how many of them might work in a similar manner to Chicago and Cleveland. I do think they will all have some similarities, such as a final dig spot that appears more or less as it does when you approach it on the ground. What I will say for the SF image, is that it appears to have much more information than many of the other images. Lots of apparently intentionally drawn bits and pieces. Why, if not for visual confirmation/clues when you are moving physically through the puzzle? I've redacted some sections of the post I am replying ti and noted that as "--" Reply below. I've been thinking the same thing. My idea for the SF puzzle was rather straight forwards, and it got me thinking if I had missed something. But, the deeper I dug, the less I got out of it. So I thought again. I looked at Chicago and Cleveland and asked myself, "what, as a bare minimum, do I need from the image in order to come to the same conclusion as the people who found the casque?" The answer is... not a lot. I am about to go over those images in photoshop and block out the relevant clues, and see what's left over. So far, I think a lot of the picture is left over. There is a considerable amount of tree that doesn't yieled a clue in the Cleveland image. Only a little bit does. So, to answer your question, why so much detail? Try this... design your own puzzle and show only applicable details and images with no filler. I did this, and looked at others who did that, and what comes out is... a really easy puzzle. So why did JJP detail? To hide stuff. Consider this... a banana. What is it? A banana. Obvious. Then consider this... a banana in a pile of apples. Slightly harder to find, but when you see the banana, what is it? A banana. NOW... consider a banana in a pile of bananas. I dare you to find the right banana without knowing which banana you're looking for! So there may be only 1 or two details in all of the rocks of image 1. If only that detail was painted, you would find it in seconds, and the puzzle would have been solved ages ago. If you see all sorts of details in the rocks, the possible "correct" detail becomes harder to find. The detail creates pattern that helps to hide things. The banana is important to the solve... the pile of bananas is important to the puzzle. As for the rest, JJP paints detailed images. He's a good painter because of that, so he has most likely freeformed some sections to create a believeable character and image. Anything outside of that, could be you seeing something that may not be there. For example, you note a "fang" on the woman... I can't see that... Having said all that, the number of casques I have dug up is 0. Happy to note that tally... so I could be completely wrong. Just my opinion! Happy hunting! X

"At stone wall's door" Here is my take about the start of the verse: The stone being the descriptive word make's the type of stone unique that we should be searching for..... In the image, the wall behind the Gal and table is black-ish in color and seems to have a faded white blended (or smeared ) appearance around the table, also on the right side of the Gal. JJP signature appears to be a faded white color with a thick underline to the signature. IMO the black wall behind the Gal represents a blackboard with a smeared chalk look. JJP's signature appears to be written in chalk. Blackboards are made out of Slate (stone) The representation of a blackboard in the image gives us the stone we need to find (Slate). The entrance of the Maritime Museum is made out of Slate , the stone adorns the entrance and on both walls surrounding the doors. At the entrance you can see the Ghirardelli sign , Galileo Academy of Science (dome) and the entrance is at the end of Polk st. 11th president. image hosting service upload images

second photo down a candidate for sounds from the sky?.... https://curthopkinswriting.com/2016/12/ ... y-history/

MERLIN wrote:: second photo down a candidate for sounds from the sky?.... https://curthopkinswriting.com/2016/12/ ... y-history/ Japanese clues suggest Sounds From The Sky is talking about a Radio or radio Tower in my opinion. The quote is "Sounds that cannot be heard unless you have a human machine to hear them". You need a radio to hear the Sounds from the sky

Durian wrote:: For instance a hammer and pulley to strike a cable car bell. IMO this fits the verse just fine, and can reasonably be tied to the image. Really? I must not be understanding the word sky the same as you. Marconi and Tower Records both make a lot of sense for this line, especially when coupled with the Japanese hints. San Francisco has decent interpretations in many areas of the city. The issue with these puzzles is if you don't have the start, they have a tendency to taunt like that. Given the lack of concrete image matches in the SF painting, it's probably best to focus on what is definitely there and how that could relate to the verse. Lincoln...the Legion of Honor is in Lincoln Park and right at the Lincoln Hwy terminus. Let's examine the verse ending in conjunction with the Legion. We find El Cid or El Campeador, which means the champion or outstanding warrior and defines him as a person of exceptional talent, otherwise known as a giant. In addition, he holds a lance or pole and his horse, Babieca is clearly taking a step. Has anyone done any recon or probing in front of the stone wall that Babieca is stepping towards?

That's funny, I used the same song lyrics to argue for Coit!

Durian wrote:: on a wall I definitely see some of the attraction the the LoH Things on walls are always interesting.

I know books and famous writings have been referenced in these puzzles but I have not seen anything about song lyrics.

Choice wrote:: :rofl I know, I know, you are the smartest kid on the block. So prove it and humor me this once. Imagine you are at the LoH and you are standing in the parking lot, looking at El Cid. The exact view I posted. Take a look, where would you probe/dig and how would you know to dig there?

The solid area - bottom right of the photo looks very similar to the table leg just shorter.....did you photoshop that in there?

MERLIN wrote:: The solid area - bottom right of the photo looks very similar to the table leg just shorter.....did you photoshop that in there? You're logged into your second account but no, I never even noticed that.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: You're logged into your second account but no, I never even noticed that. Did you just pull a Choice and unknowingly post an image that contains an important clue?

interesting... Seems to be me....

GoldenMartyr wrote:: . Has anyone done any recon or probing in front of the stone wall that Babieca is stepping towards? Yes. FYI there is high voltage lines there and utility boxes.

Tell them about the horse's butt image match Matt.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: I never even noticed that. Dang Fenix, you are clueless. There are at least 2 of them: hxxp://tinyurl.com/y5gjbqoc

Choice wrote:: Dang Fenix, you are clueless. Awww, stop joshing me!

maltedfalcon wrote:: Yes. FYI there is high voltage lines there and utility boxes. There shouldn't be. That faces the cliffs and golf coarse, there's nothing to run the lines to or from. If there were they would have to come from under the street, and that would make them at least 8 feet below ground at the fence. Power should come from the town side... the back of the building. You should go check that out MF. It's not nearly as close as the fence and fixture, but its worth a look I guess. I can pull the utility maps if it would be helpful to you.

The official drink of Q4T..... https://untappd.akamaized.net/photos/20 ... 0x640.jpeg

Hello everyone. This is my first post. I was first introduced to this hunt about 10 years ago by my dad. Since 2001 we’ve participated in a local treasure hunt in Carson City and we thought it would be fun to try a different one. We worked on this verse off and on for a while before putting it down. Recently I saw an old show on tv about this and decided to dust off the old book and take another crack at it. Here are a few of my thoughts about this verse linked to SF. At stone wall’s door - This could be Arguello entrance into Golden Gate Park. In 1902 a stone wall was built around the NE corner (from 2nd Ave along Fulton St around to Stanyan St and ends just before JFK). According to the park chronology this is the only stone wall built along the edge of the park and the Arguello gate entrance is the only one into the park with the stone wall on both sides. One of the definitions of door is: any gateway marking an entrance or exit from one place or state to another. The air smells sweet - My thought on this is that it might simply refers to the aroma of the many flower gardens throughout GG Park and even more specifically the Conservatory of Flowers. The Arguello entrance is the closest entrance to the Conservatory. In addition to this there is a photo on the right side of the Conservatory vestibule with Lyle Ghirardelli presenting chocolate seeds to Mrs. Sydney Stein Rich, chief gardener at the Conservatory of Flowers in Golden Gate Park, December 14, 1948. The photo was provided by the San Francisco Public Library, where BP May have gone to do some research for the hunt. In jewel’s direction Is an object Of Twain’s attention - Of all the lines in Verse 7, I feel this solve is the most concrete. As you may or may not know Mark Twain became friends with Ulysses S. Grant. He convinced Grant to write his own autobiography and Twain published it. Grant finished it just a few days before his death. After his death Twain published Grants Memoirs. In 1885 Mark Twain wrote a letter to Henry Ward Beecher. The topic of this letter was the late Ulysses S. Grant. This is what Twain wrote about Grant: “His genuineness, simplicity, modesty, diffidence, self-deprecation, poverty in the quality of vanity. And, in no contradiction to this last, his simple pleasure in the flowers and general ruck sent to him by Tom, Dick and Harry from everywhere, a pleasure that suggested a perennial surprise that he should be the OBJECT OF so much fine ATTENTION.” There is a statue of Ulysses Grant in GG Park and I believe that if the casque is in the park, whatever Giant pole your at or Giant step you take or climb you need to be facing the direction of the Grant statue. I hope this now gives everyone a direction to go when hunting. Personally I think it’s in GG Park, but there are other things to consider - There is also a Grant Ave in SF named after Ulysses Grant. Some of the clues might fit that as well, for example: Almost all of it is a one way street (North) and The China Town Dragons Gate crosses over Grant Ave and it’s fairly close to Coit Tower and it ends at the park at The Embarcadero and Pier 39. Just some extra thoughts. I hope this helps someone. It’ll be some time until I ever get to SF to look, so good luck to everyone who can get out there.

burnstyle wrote:: There shouldn't be. That faces the cliffs and golf coarse, there's nothing to run the lines to or from. If there were they would have to come from under the street, and that would make them at least 8 feet below ground at the fence. Power should come from the town side... the back of the building. You should go check that out MF. It's not nearly as close as the fence and fixture, but its worth a look I guess. I can pull the utility maps if it would be helpful to you. Well Since I had a dig permit on thursday I was there and I checked it out. by the way that faces the GGbridge not the cliffs... it faces the holocaust memorial Yes just beneath the shape are two utility boxes, there is high voltage for the lighting that comes all the way around the outside of the wall. (hilariously it isn't even in conduits....) the wires are about 1.5 feet down.... The building engineers were there to make sure we were safe. as was the groundskeeper who marked all of the sprinkler heads for us... very nice people there... We did find something, but it had nothing to do with the hunt, and we very carefully put it back.... The power to the Legion of honor sign is right there thats what it feeds.

treasurefindingfamily wrote:: Hello everyone. This is my first post. I was first introduced to this hunt about 10 years ago by my dad. Since 2001 we’ve participated in a local treasure hunt in Carson City and we thought it would be fun to try a different one. Hi Welcome! All good thoughts, You can use the search feature on q4t to find out if other people had similiar ideas. Really though Carson City to SF is not that far! you and your family should make a day trip!

Choice wrote:: There are at least 2 of them: They are a recurring feature of the wall on the outside, there are probably 6 or 8

Did you dig up bone?

Choice wrote:: Did you dig up bone? You know why I rarely post anymore? This guy always says what I'm thinking. Saves me the effort.

maltedfalcon wrote:: We did find something, but it had nothing to do with the hunt, and we very carefully put it back.... Did it have a giant Chinese symbol on top?

burnstyle wrote:: Did it have a giant Chinese symbol on top? no it was more biological than that...

erexere wrote:: You know why I rarely post anymore? This guy always says what I'm thinking. Saves me the effort. Not going to say anything more specific than... none of us were surprised. but that stopped all further digging in that spot.