Thread Summary
The forum thread explores the term "lallation," which describes the confusion between the letters "L" and "R" in speech, often observed in Chinese speakers of English. It delves into language difficulties faced by non-native speakers, stereotypes, and references to characters like Fu Manchu and Charlie Chan. Furthermore, there is a brief conversation about the TV series "Kung Fu" and the character Kwai Chang Caine. The discussion also touches on the challenges faced by native speakers when learning a second language with different phonemes, as well as the differences in pronunciation among various languages. Additionally, users discuss the use of 'L' and 'R' sounds in different languages, particularly focusing on Asian accents, and address stereotypes and xenophobia towards Asian immigrants. Lastly, there is playful banter about a character named Kwai Chang Twaine, reminiscent of the Kung Fu TV series.
JoshCornell
please message me.
i need to know the term that applies to how chinese people talk when speaking english.
Erpobdelliforme
Generally speaking Josh, native speakers of one language are going to have trouble with a second language when that language has certain phonemes that do not exist in the first. In this case, you are probably asking about lambdacism (trouble with the letter L) or rhotacism (trouble with the letter R). The term for when these two letters are confused in speech is called a lallation.
JamesV
Josh, are you referring to "pidgin" English?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pidgin
Just spent the past year of my life studying Mandarin, currently living/working in China for the foreseeable future. Always happy to help sound out any ideas along these lines, assuming my Internet access holds out.
JoshCornell
in a sense yes, but i was specifically looking for the term lallation used by Erpobdelliforme. thanks though.
JoshCornell
this didnt take me anywhere new really, only to places ive already been but its reinforcing info anyways.
JoshCornell
one of those places is here though:
hxxp://www.twainquotes.com/Galaxy/187009b.html
Mister EZ
JoshCornell wrote::
one of those places is here though:
hxxp://www.twainquotes.com/Galaxy/187009b.html
"Divil a cint but four dollars a week and find meself; but it's aisy, barrin' the bloody furrin clothes that's so expinsive."
That's an Irish brogue.
So, in that case, he's not giving an example of lallation, common for some Asians, especially Japanese, as they don't have a sound for 'L'. Some Chinese dialects have difficulty with 'R' at the end of words. But, they (including Mandarin) have/use both of the sounds for 'L' and 'R'.
maltedfalcon
Mister EZ wrote::
"Divil a cint but four dollars a week and find meself; but it's aisy, barrin' the bloody furrin clothes that's so expinsive."
That's an Irish brogue.
So, in that case, he's not giving an example of lallation, common for some Asians, especially Japanese, as they don't have a sound for 'L'. Some Chinese dialects have difficulty with 'R' at the end of words. But, they (including Mandarin) have/use both of the sounds for 'L' and 'R'.
In this case the humor lies in the man who was dressed in chinese garb was an irishman
also being treated as an inferior.
Twain was pointing out the prejudice that treats both badly and that they were basically interchangeable in terms of being looked down on, and in either case it was wrong.
He was also pointing out the ignorance of some who could not tell someone who was chinese from someone who was irish.
Mister EZ
Yup...that piece is absolutely about stereotypes...and, ignorance.
JoshCornell
he's pointing us to fu manchu and charlie chan (and one other thats too hard to just give away lol). but youre right. its about the xenophobia directed at asian immigrants.
erexere
Kwai Chang Twaine....great character name for a Kung Fu monk on the Mississippi.
Spiritr
Kwai Chang Twaine???
Mister EZ
Spiritr wrote::
Kwai Chang Twaine???
Yup:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kung_Fu_(TV_series)
JoshCornell
lol its caine not twaine...but there is a connection to that show lol (just not that)