See my post under the "pp.20-21" thread.  This is a tough picture with which to match a theme, along with pic 11.  After being fairly confident with matching the other 10 pictures to themes, it leaves me with only 2: One should be: February (no indication of time in either pic) Amethyst (pic 11 --- is that gem purple though?) Violet or Primrose (pic 11 has a purple flower, but it doesn't look like a violet or primrose, it looks more like Gladiolus) German Theme "Dwarves' treasure: purple Amethyst, Imperial star of Germany." The other should be: August (ball glowing at 8 o'clock in pic 10?) Peridot (are either of these gems green) Gladiolus or Poppy (what is that flower in pic 10?) Italian Theme "Peridot of old Italy: antique, and olivine, and rich." However, the gem in this pic appears to be blue --- not purple (Amethyst) or green (Peridot).  So, perhaps I have mismatched a pic and theme somewhere else, though I don't see how.  Does this pic remind someone of Germany or Italy at all?

In the "pp.20-21" thread, Fox and Shawn point out that the 2 balls being juggled could refer to the 2nd month --- February.  However, how do you explain the flower and gem apparently not matching? Anyone have a clue what's on top of the hill in the picture? Also, as we have seen from other pictures, sometimes a picture will contain images "spliced" from real life (the Chicago Water Tower, the Statue of Liberty face, the Chrysler Building bird).  Does anyone recognize any of the objects in the picture, or probably most importantly, how about the woman's face? The cape may also be a clue, since the gemstone is in front of it.  Could the cape be indicating a geographic shape, like the conquistador picture and Florida?

Unknown: In the "pp.20-21" thread, Fox and Shawn point out that the 2 balls being juggled could refer to the 2nd month --- February.  However, how do you explain the flower and gem apparently not matching? Maybe the other items dont match so they wont be counted.  After knocking off all of the other month's, this P is most definitely February (2) and there are no other 2-alike items in the P except for the red balls. About her face.  I found 2 possibles (but dont have good URL's)  One is Anne Sullivan and the other is.....darn it, cant find my notes and dont remember her name (was an Irish sounding name beginning with "O'".  Will try to find it again.  It also wasnt a perfect match but I think the mouth was pretty similar.

A friend of mine suggests that the gap between the towers looks like an upside-down mirror image of the left tower. --Johann

this is probably a stretch, but the tower on the left could be the Harvard Lampoon Castle: hxxp://www.harvardlampoon.com/history/castle.htm Both Sean Kelly and Ted Mann worked for the National Lampoon, which was founded by H.L. alumni. The castle itself was designed by H.L. founder Edmund March Wheelwright, and she is looking at a wheel to our right.  There are plenty of other domed towers in the area, including two within sight, that could be the right tower in the image. The Celtic cane she is juggling also seems a tie-in to Boston. hxxp://members.aol.com/canesextra/page13.html

Unknown: this is probably a stretch, but the tower on the left could be the Harvard Lampoon Castle: hxxp://www.harvardlampoon.com/history/castle.htm Both Sean Kelly and Ted Mann worked for the National Lampoon, which was founded by H.L. alumni. I hate to stretch a stretch, but could that be a Phi Beta Kappa key?

I think I see a "15" in the bend of her left arm.  That's not a useful number for latitude/longitude, though.

Catherwood - do some of your high res magic on this picture.  On the floor to the right are some details. Also to the right of the wheel in the castle background, there is an image that is hard to see. I am not sure it is a 15 in her sleeve, but there is something there. If the armor picture is not Kitty Hawk, that only leaves this one. wilhouse

I cropped a few pieces out of this image and saved them in a manageable size. hxxp://catwood.leftbrained.org/TheSecre ... 0-blob.jpg is the blob to the right of the millstone hxxp://catwood.leftbrained.org/TheSecre ... spires.jpg is the mountain in the distance, with the building spires that probably need to be identified hxxp://catwood.leftbrained.org/TheSecre ... stline.jpg is the area of her cape to the right and below.  My thinking is that the edge of the cape represents a coastline, a river, or a border of the location, especially the upper half above the ground line. The full image is at hxxp://catwood.leftbrained.org/TheSecre ... mage10.jpg at super high resolution -- and super large download size/speed, sorry -- with thanks again to Dan Amrich for the original scans, yay!

This pic is one of my candidates for St. Louis.  Byron Preiss told me in an e-mail, after I submitted a very impressive and wrong solution, that there is a St. Louis treasure.  I kept the e-mail and can send it to anyone who gives me an e-mail address.  (I am bad with computers and do not know how to post the e-mail here.) The lat/long breakthrough left me with this juggler pic and the suit of armor pic as candidates.  Yet, it looks like Cat's idea for the armor pic is becoming convincing. Nevertheless, I can see little in the juggler pic that screams "St. Louis."  The river-like lines in the cape may refer to the Mississippi and Missouri rivers, which meet here, but it was common practice to begin any city along a river. The sleeves, upside-down, resemble the famous Arch, but all upside-down sleeves look like the Arch. There do not appear to be any numbers in this pic, but there may be numbers in the bottom right-hand corner in the straw-like material.  I could not get the full scan to examine that area.  The St. Louis lat/long numbers are 38 and 90. I have been quiet about the St.L situation because I have nothing to say at this time.  I am stumped.  Yet, I am in St.L, and that may eventually count for something. --Johann p.s.  Help!  Please!

Well, I have some hope for you Johann. If you look at my chart in "What has been found?" you will see that I put Image 9 with North Carolina.  However, Catherwood has presented a compelling case that Image 3 goes with North Carolina instead (the Roanoke Island match is almost exact).  So, that leaves Image 9 without a match  --- maybe that is St. Louis? P.S. --- Can you send me your email from Byron Preiss?  Thanks.  It's [email protected]

also requesting the email:  [email protected] Now, I really like the charts popping up in these threads; however, one thing kind of concerns me....that is...in no chart is there a mention of Atlanta.  hmmmm, looks like good ole fox may be wrong again.....

Can someone supply a full high-res scan of the entire ground area of the pic?  There are a lot of little lines (straw-like) and potentially numbers down there.  Or, perhaps not. It seems that Cat's scan does not reach all the way to the bottom of the pic.  Perhaps it does and I or my computer have made an error. --Johann

somthing else to note from this pic (which by the way, is now driving me crazy, i cant decide if this is Boston or if Pic 3 is Boston now) is if you look in her right hand, the one without the ball, you can see a bell in her palm.  this bell resembles the one in Revere's court yard much better than the bells in Pic 3 (except for the one, in the bottom left).  so im officially gone crazy. either way, i'll have my book, and i'll scour the town looking for towers that resemble the two in pic 10, and also find any connections to pic 3.

Unknown: ...you can see a bell in her palm... I do not see any intentionally placed bell there. I believe it is merely an illusion.  But i've done a close-up for people to judge for themselves. hxxp://catwood.leftbrained.org/TheSecre ... 0-hand.jpg

I'd say it looks a lot like a bell.  The cane goes better with Boston but the whole metal works-bells-pea spoon- tea bag, etc...seems to be a better match.

loph, did you get my messages sent to you some time ago?  just checking.

yes fox, got your messages.  dont really have anything new to report.  im just going to go check out all that i can: 1. Freedom Trail 2. State House 3. old north church 4. museum of fine arts (maybe someone there can tell me what that sculpture looking thing is in Pic 3) 5. old burial hill 6. the commons 7. Christopher columbus park 8. North point park 9. reveres house 10. copley square (i think the hancock building could be the green tower of lights??  ) if anyone has any suggestions let me know.

loph - for some advanced scouting, check out the 4 boston photo galleries here hxxp://www.huv-photo.com/galleries.html the Harvard gallery shows three more likely towers in addition to the one I posted earlier

also the old state house is a possible match

looking closely at image 10, I agree with Cats thought that it appears that the cloak's edge, on the right side of the picture, looks like a coastline or shoreline. wilhouse

Loph, my $ is in or around Copley Square.  Dont forget the BPL, I think it may be more important than most give credit.  Just a gut feeling......

fox, yah, Copely square and the BPL are VERY high on my list of places to visit.  theres that church in copely square and the hancock building which looks green in every picture ive seen of it.  and there is still something about the library thats drawing me to it.  also the Museum of Fine Arts.  i leave wednesday morning, so i'll be frantically trying to find more confirming clues and places to visit.  i will have internet access once im there, so i'll be checking in, and if i find anything i'll be sure to let you all know.  i have a digital camera so i'll find one of those journal websites to post pictures on.

Good luck loph, hopefully when you return, I can say " 3 down, 9 to go"

Weird patterns in the hair (sort of looks like NY finger lakes?) Lower Right with contrast way up: Some have suggested a "15" at the elbow: Interesting pattern around the neck (perhaps a pattern in some park?) Bell in hand? And something I have not seen mentioned before. (again, at 300 dpi I can't do the right filtering that I want)... but, there seems to be some kind of numbering going on here... not sure.

Just an idea on the long/lat for this pic: The markings in the hair could be interpreted as 110 and 111, to give the longitude. The edges of the flower shaped object look like cycling 2s and 3s, so this could give 32. This would point to Tucson, AZ

another possible find / probable stretch.  Compare the designs around her collar in the P with the layout of the Elizabethan Gardens (shown as background here) hxxp://www.outerbanks.com/elizabethangardens/ Now, if this is indeed our P for V11, has anyone tried to match up the outline of the cape with any of the coastlines of NC?  There sure are a lot of them.  Possibly even around [shadow=red,left,300]Cape[/shadow] Hatteras.

could this be the bldg in the background at a slightly different angle?  The domed cupolas are quite similar... hxxp://www.builtstlouis.net/schools/ittner04.html

Well, it is a possibility.  I have seen several structures that could represent the pic, but it is a fairly common shape.  Yet, I have found little that exactly matches the pic.  Then that brings us to the debate about how literal or representational to take the clues.  Yet, it is still a possibility worthy of consideration. You made me look at her collar a new way.  I always assumed (a dangerous thing) that it is a small pattern on a vertical surface or on floor tiles.  I have never before thought about it as a large pattern of a garden.

How about Milwaukee? 1.  She's juggling a classic rhebus (millstone + walking stick + key = MILL + WALK + KEY = Milwaukee. 2.  Milwaukee is highly German, and that has been suggested as a theme. 3.  Her neckline is an image of Whitefish Bay and Milwaukee Bay on the city shoreline, with the Milwaukee River included. 4.  The right-most portion of the "skyline" image behind her looks a lot like the City Hall. 5.  Milwaukee was the home of General Billy Mitchell, which might be a tie to V8.  That's even the name of the airport. 6.  Lots of lakeside parks. Cheers.

Pine Tree, that's genius! And if everyone will look back at Verse 8 (first page), you'll see it was suggested there that this verse 8 could be linked to Milwaukee too (though not by me...) wilhouse

Gadzooks, that's awesome!  Can someone put the geographical shapes next to the appropriate parts of the pic?  I believe you, Pine Tree, but I want the thrill of seeing the "Eureka!".

Nice find Mr. Tree!  I had been tossing around (lol) ideas about the items juggled but never came up with the obvious Millwalkkey......love it! Cat, would you consider this a port city?  just curious...

I'm not 100% sold yet, but it's worth some investigation.  Some points to weigh: > We have no Rebus puns in any other image (that we know of), but that doesn't rule it out here. > We still don't have any latitude/longitude numbers jumping off the page.  Milwaukee would be 43N and 87/88W. > I found two buildings in Milwaukee which could match the two towers; but because they are silhouettes, there could be other matches across the country. > The coastline: I did not see any geographic shape to match the woman's neckline as was posted.  If anything is going to be an outline to match, I feel it must be the edge of her cape on the right side of the image.  When I find a match, I'll be convinced. And I WILL keep looking.  But you realize, by adding yet another city to our list, we're gonna have to drop something soon. Oh, and the verse?  I like the Mitchell connection.  Whoever this General Mitchell was, he has a lot of things named after him in Milwaukee.  For the "climb the grand 200" I am looking at the Grand Staircase in Lake Park -- why can't i find out how many steps it has?!?

Unknown: > We have no Rebus puns in any other image (that we know of), but that doesn't rule it out here. oh but I believe we have.  In egg's find in Cleveland.  In the Plain Dealer article it was mentioned that using the bell in the P with the flower in the P you get Bellflower....a road running adjacent to the gardens.

Unknown: I'm not 100% sold yet, but it's worth some investigation.  Some points to weigh: > We have no Rebus puns in any other image (that we know of), but that doesn't rule it out here. > We still don't have any latitude/longitude numbers jumping off the page.  Milwaukee would be 43N and 87/88W. > I found two buildings in Milwaukee which could match the two towers; but because they are silhouettes, there could be other matches across the country. Unknown: > The coastline: I did not see any geographic shape to match the woman's neckline as was posted.  If anything is going to be an outline to match, I feel it must be the edge of her cape on the right side of the image.  When I find a match, I'll be convinced. Unknown: And I WILL keep looking.  But you realize, by adding yet another city to our list, we're gonna have to drop something soon. Oh, and the verse?  I like the Mitchell connection.  Whoever this General Mitchell was, he has a lot of things named after him in Milwaukee.  For the "climb the grand 200" I am looking at the Grand Staircase in Lake Park -- why can't i find out how many steps it has?!? Which buildings did you find? I don't see it either. Spent the day looking around Lake Park today.  (I'm the friend catherwood mentioned was going to take pictures for her).  The Grand Staircase has 95 steps to climb up on either side from ground level to the very top.  There are an additional steps in the center that don't lead anywhere.  I took some pictures and will get them up tomorrow, but I don't think the Grand Staircase is our place unless there have been some steps added. As for other Milwaukee facts concerning Mitchell, I'll put them in the V8 thread.

I like the City Hall building for the left tower, but am only moderately sold on St. John's Cathedral for the right tower.  (I have misplaced the specific street addresses for these buildings but they are easily found with a search.)  They are not next to one another at all, but I'm fine with that. the building silhouettes the two milwaukee towers (I don't put the pictures inline with this post, because that would be repeated hits to my server with every refresh -- save them locally if possible.)

wow the city hall looks especially promising! Edited to add: I found this picture of the city hall from a slightly different angle, but it isn't very clear unfortunately. hxxp://www.indexstock.com/store/Chubby. ... ber=436517 It looks like there are two spire-like structures on the building.  I think if looked at from the right angle, the city hall will fit exactly with our silhouette!

Well, I'm convinced.  That picture says it all --- it's an exact match.  I guess this matches with verse 8 --- the 3 stories of Mitchell, which interestingly is my first post on verse 8 --- finding a 3-story building called Mitchell Hall. Time to research Milwaukee! Also, we now have 14 locations and 12 treasures.  Two are wrong. hmmm.

...first attempt at using the "quote" feature... This is the neckline I'm to which I'm referring.  So far unsuccessful at posting map image.  Still learning.  Check out map or aerial of Milwaukee and look at the shape of the coastline. [quote] Interesting pattern around the neck (perhaps a pattern in some park?)

Unknown: Interesting pattern around the neck (perhaps a pattern in some park?) I was thinking maybe it could be a brick pattern, maybe around a monument or statue we're looking for?

I'm rather fond of the three domes at the Mitchell Park Horticultural Conservatory -- each dome tells a story (of sorts) by recreating a particular climate.

I don't know how the city is layed out, but looking at that closeup, it looks like it could be an aerial view, with the neckline pointing to someplace specific. wilhouse

Unknown: I'm rather fond of the three domes at the Mitchell Park Horticultural Conservatory -- each dome tells a story (of sorts) by recreating a particular climate. I agree.  I was going to visit there yesterday but ran out of time.  I haven't been able to find many good pictures of what the Mitchell Park around it looks like or what it contains.  I did find a 360 degree view site inside one of the domes and didn't see anything that stood out right away.

In the interest of accuracy, the "Interesting pattern around the neck..." verbiage carried over with the image from neVar's 5/26 posting. As wilhouse suggested two posts ago, my argument is that this image includes the aerial view of the Milwaukee coast.  The two arcs are the two bays (Whitefish and Milwaukee)named in my original Milwaukee proposal.  The line between her pale skin and the upturned edge of the cloak is the Milwaukee River, emptying into Milwaukee bay. Check out an aerial view, or a map. It's killing me that I have not yet been successful at posting map clippings that show the comparison.

Unknown: As wilhouse suggested two posts ago, my argument is that this image includes the aerial view of the Milwaukee coast.  The two arcs are the two bays (Whitefish and Milwaukee)named in my original Milwaukee proposal.  The line between her pale skin and the upturned edge of the cloak is the Milwaukee River, emptying into Milwaukee bay. Check out an aerial view, or a map. I've got a map and I'm trying to compare it in Photoshop to the neckline.  I don't see it yet, but I'm looking!

OK, I think I see what you're seeing... hxxp://varin.org/TheSecret/necklinecomp2.jpg It's not an exact match, but neither are my photoshopping skills I'd say it looks very similar!

I thought initially that these towers would be found in Boston, and then really liked Fox's find of the match between the neck pattern and the Elizabethan Gardens on Roanoke ( hxxp://www.outerbanks.com/elizabethanga ... lzgbak.gif ), but the match to Milwaukee is now quite convincing.  Maybe there is a similar garden pattern to be found there? Also, not sure if the exact view can be seen (note it is referred to as 'rare' 3 photos down here hxxp://www.widenonline.com/oldmilw/cityhall.htm ), but it looks like someone was able to capture it recently hxxp://www.emporis.com/en/il/im/?id=209831 (picture half broken)

Here's some more pretty good pics of city hall: hxxp://www.bluffton.edu/~sullivanm/wisc ... /koch.html Now as I'm in Milwaukee I'm biased, but it looks like a match to me

I went to the Milwaukee City Hall and got some more pics.  I got as close to the angle in the image as possible, but there was an awning in the way.  It looks pretty close to me, especially the one on the second page. hxxp://www.varin.org/gallery/album35

Good pics matching the silhouette in the Image. The matching shots are all from roughly the Northwest.  Maybe the Image is saying something like "...put yourself roughly where you would see this view..."  In other words, at some point in orienting yourself to the site you would be NW of City Hall, maybe even where you could see it. In the general area W of City Hall there are: 1.  Old World Third Street ("...walk the beating of the world" from V8) 2.  Grand Avenue Mall ("...climbing the grand 200", also from V8) 3.  The river, and hence lots of bridges ("Below the bridge").  It even runs SE for a good ways.  Don't know about much "rock and soil", though. Any of you Milwaukeeans (Milwaukeeites?, Milwaukinos?) see value in the area NW or W of City Hall?

I did quite a bit of biking around the area and took lots of pictures.  Most of them where of things of interest that were east of there though.  I went only maybe one block west of there.   I'll try to upload those soon to see if they help at all.

wow good work people! i think i like the tower match.  :)

I have been pondering this picture as well.  I like Pine's thought about this, thinking that V8 may be a good match.  "View the three stories of Mitchell".  Mitchell is a big name in these parts with a Mitchell Mansion (now the Wisconsin Club") looks to be three stories tall,  a Mitchell Building downtown, that is 7-8 stories tall (probably not it), but of greater interest is the Mitchell Park Domes (architectually unique gardens).  There are three domes each with its "own tale to tell".  One is a desert, one is a rainforest, and one changes with the seasons.  In looking at this picture there seems to be a dome shaped structure sitting in a landscape as part of her hair near HER left temple.  This area of her hair is very different from the other side, so I don't think it random.  Check out Mitchell Domes and see what you think?  Could it be a starting place for this picture with V8???

I’m new to this but I have been reviewing the info posted here since being contacted by my counterpart at the Milwaukee County Parks Dept. He was contacted by an individual looking for info on the lake Park angle. Looking at the picture, the top of her cape seams to be a depiction of something man made as well as the area below in the middle of her cape. I don’t see any comments from anyone on this but I’m working with him to review the County Parks records on statues/monuments and see if anything matches. Also after talking with the county, we feel that her collar could be a depiction of some formal garden that no longer exists. When he has time and can pull the files we will review this and see if it’s a match. When I first saw the picture it was very apparent, at less to me, that after working there for 37 years, the building in the background was Milwaukee City Hall. The taller south tower on the right and the north tower on the left. I will post any additional info after review of the county records.

Designer, Welcome to the forum, and sorry for the slow response.  Things have been sorta quiet lately.  I hope you enjoy your participation here. Several months ago I contacted Mr. R. at Parks regarding the Grand Staircase in Lake Park.  I laid out a hypothesis for how the staircase might seem to have a different number of stairs now than in 1982, and asked for his view.  At the time he and I both were unable to devote any more time to the question, so he left me with the hope that perhaps he would be able to later pursue the question.  It's all been idle since, so I was happy to see your post.  Maybe it's time for this to move beyond a fruitless inquiry. Also, others besides me may very well have been contacting Parks, so it's entirely likely that my above story is unrelated to your entry into this hunt. Either way, it's great to have you here. Tally Ho!

Yes Designer...welcome to the hunt.  Your confirmation on the Towers are just what we needed to nail this one down...... thanks

ok, here you go folks. hxxp://groups.msn.com/Dylansfinalfantas ... hotoID=651 I think this is the angle our new member Designer was referring to (closest match I could find)... it even has the little"upward jutting area between the 2 towers" P10 has.  I dont know about the rest of you but I would consider this a DEFINITE match....added with the rebus found some time ago dealing with the objects being juggled..... (MIL)lston,  (WALK)ing cane, & (KEY) = Milwaukee. now comes the hard part again.....WHAT V?  arrgh!

ok, just another thought on this one....  look at her "blue" hood ........ok.....is it just me or does the whole hood in the P look like a rotated Lake Michigan? hxxp://www.touchtmj4.com/4weather/radar/max.gif

well they are both kind of the same shape. but this looks more like a match to me. which is the coast of Milwaukee.

and then if the coast lines up her eyes are looking east along a line that contains a park called humboldt park. one of the larger older parks in Milwaukee - it has a band shell or a concert area... Just a wild guess on my part.  -so who lives near Milwaukee?

maltedfalcon wrote:: and then if the coast lines up her eyes are looking east along a line that contains a park called humboldt park. one of the larger older parks in Milwaukee - it has a band shell or a concert area... Just a wild guess on my part.  -so who lives near Milwaukee? Woo!  Good to see that there's some activity again.  I said this in the verse thread, but I did live right near Milwaukee and just moved.  I'll be passing by there once a month or so though so I plan to make a trip there again to check things out.

maltedfalcon wrote:: it has a band shell or a concert area... yea, it does look more like the coastline...nice find. band shell hmmmmmm?  is it me or do we keep running into these things?

Focus on the top of her wind-blown cloak. From the left going right, it looks like a whale's tail. From the right going left, it looks like an aircraft of some sort, perhaps a space shuttle or a Concorde. Conjectures? was Milwaukee connected in some way with Concorde?

A couple more ideas to be tossed into the mix regarding Milwaukee. - there has been mention of the bell shaped object in the palm of the woman's hand...could this bell = hxxp://www.cardcow.com/product.php?productid=15672#img - now, on to the elusive red balls....too bad there arent 3 in the picture, but could they be this: hxxp://www.december.com/places/mke/images/ladybug.jpg - real stretch here but check out the towers on either side of the bandshell in washington park: hxxp://www.rootsweb.com/~usgenweb/wi/mi ... .jpg  looks similar to the "other" faded image over woman's shoulder by the key.  Also in Washington Park is Sheep Mountain - hxxp://www.the2buds.com/pc/wi/WI_0081.jpg

An idea regarding the "blob" to the right of the mill wheel: and... Just sit back from your monitor for a minute and stare. What on earth...? Update: Oops, I forgot to mention - these are common fleas, highly magnified.

Of course, it could be one of these: When I was a kid we used to call these guys "locust skins," and we could pick them off the trunks of pine trees. I found out later that they were the skins of molting periodical cicadas. Even though they are not really locusts (which are more like grasshoppers), these critters are often called "17-year locusts." I am not the only one who got cicadas and locusts mixed up; it's apparently a common misnomer: hxxp://www.newton.dep.anl.gov/askasci/zoo00/zoo00594.htm hxxp://www.mechaworx.com/Cicada/faq/locust.asp Imagine my delight when I looked at a map of Milwaukee and noticed that Locust St. ends at Lake Park. You would cross it when walking from Mitchell Hall to the "Grand 200" staircase in the park.

Wow!  Maybe we should all focus on the Milwaukee treasure and end one more mystery.

Awfully hard to do if our birch tree is dead! I did have a thought that the upper portion of her cape might be a rotated painting of a tree trunk. Doesn't look like birch, though.

do anyone see the arrow on the millstone? what does that mean?

While I was taking pics in Fair Park in Dallas, I saw this fence: The design in it reminded me of something - the neck area of the woman's cloak in image 10.  I don't think this is a match, but I do have a hunch that you might find that exact design in a fence, railing, or some kind of partition somewhere near the casque.  After re-reading this thread and the one for Verse 8, I feel pretty good about Milwaukee.  I know some people have done some looking in Milwaukee... did you see anything like this design anywhere?

The birthflower for February can be violet, iris, or primrose. For what it's worth, I think the flower in Image 10 is a primrose. Primroses come in many different forms, but I did find one that looks remarkably like the one in Image 10:

Take a look at the photo on the left of this page.  There is/was a Primrose railroad substation in Milwaukee. hxxp://www.trainweb.org/milwaukee/homepage.html

I'm in Milwaukee right now and will be for the next 2 days specifically looking for anything that will start confirming a verse or other objects in the picture.  So far after alot of walking--and a short break for some really good beer--we have not found anything substantial.  The City Hall is covered with scaffolding and undergoing renovation for the next three years.  So the best view of this building will be Varin's original picures.  However, seeing it in person is better than the pictures.  There is a prominent archway beneath the tallest of the two spires, whcih can be seen if you put yourself in the same perspective as P10.  This may be the archway that is hinted at in P10 and is located in the right bottom area of the building---maybe not the insect comparison--I've seen on this board--although that was definitely thinking outside the box.  I've scoped out Mitchell mansion, now the Wisconsin Club--three story building with a 4 story tower--V8 doesn't fit, it locked by concrete in one form or another and the grouds are not that big, have no stairs and are void of any birch trees.  I've checked out Mitchell Hall, three story UWM campus building on Kenwood, nothing special, walked all around the neighborhoods there.  There is no synagogues around, at least none clearly marked (there is one building I'm going to check out more tomorrow on Lincoln Memorial Drive--The Wisconsin Institue of Torah Study).  Found Alfred Bader's home (possible keeper of the Harpsicord player) has nice windows on his home, but BP would have had to get up close to his house and peep in some of those windows to catch a glimpse of it, if it ever hung in his home. Doubtful.  Whether you take Linwood, Locust, Kenwood toward the lake and into Lake Park (no sign cast in copper--maybe gone now)  this is not official entrance, just foot paths from the neighborhood.  If you follow those paths toward the front of the park where the Grand Staircase is you will find that you are looking down on the staircase, meaning you are above them already--no climbing to be done.  Now Kenwood does loop around and becomes Lincoln Memorial Drive --if driven--would take you to the bottom of the stairs and then climbing and ascending would be in order.  Have yet to check out the Lighthouse (North Point Lighthouse--the compass) and move on from there, got dark.  But not much is saying--yes, you're in the right place yet. Or yes--you've got the right verse.  But also I haven't seen anything that tells me its another verse either.  I've always had a pet theory that the three stories of Mitchell may refer to the Mitchell Domes, especially due to the dome looking structure hidden in the woman's hair in P10, never looked like the skyline to me.  Three Domes, three stories.  Very unique to Milwaukee and would have been in most tourist/travel books available for searching and working on this puzzle back in 1982, since there was no internet then.  Its close to the airport-- would have been just a quick in and out for a guy needing to bury 12 casques in a month's time and on the move.  Having fun--wish you were here--more later.

I think the two balls she's holding are for lawn bowling.  Just NW of Lake Park Pavilion (at the top of the staircase) are the pitches (fields) for this sport.  Apparently a 1980 lawn bowling championship of some kind was held right here. Pine

I haven't seen Stercox's pictures of the trees in Milwaukee yet, but I think I just figured out a clue in this picture.  The top of her cloak appears to be the trunk of a tree turned sideways.  The base of the tree is on the right, and the top of the trunk is on the left.  There is even a knothole in the middle.  This could be the tree next to which the treasure is buried. Also, looking carefully at the outline of the cloak, you will see an upside down profile of someone on the right side of the cloak (Lincoln?).  Also, there appears to be a sideways hawk on the lower left part of the cloak. We also never figured out her neckline, or the print around her neck.  Is the print around her neck an overhead view of the building or the stairs in Milwaukee? Just some things to think about.

I hope you're right, Egbert. That would be a neat solution to the cloak problem. I am still puzzled by the edge of her hair, which is clearly significant. I never could reconcile it to my satisfaction with a map of the Milwaukee shoreline. I have looked and looked for a profile on the right edge of her cloak without success. I see what you're saying, but it just doesn't shout "Lincoln" to me. You've lost me with the hawk, too. I hope stercox's pictures will shed light on some of these mysteries.

The hawk's head is a profile, with the beak facing downward.  It is in the lower left corner of the picture, and is supposed to be part of the cloak.  I don't know how to cut and paste image blowups, but if someone else could do it, it would be appreciated.  Also, Fox's link to Lake Park has hawk statues next to the General's statue, which may be a match --- hard to tell from the picture.  See: hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/showgallery.asp?id=1&picid=15 The upside-down profile of Lincoln takes up almost the whole right side of her cloak.

Egbert, nice to see you are back at the statue... look at my last post in V8. anyways, the birds at the base of the statue are eagles which, unfortunately, were stolen.  the city came to the conclusion that forking out 50 thou to replace the birds was too much.

Okay, I see the hawk now: The actual hawks/eagles are now gone now, as Fox just pointed out. When did they disappear - before or after 1982? I'm still trying to believe you about Lincoln. It could be anybody's profile - why Lincoln? We already have the cast in copper reference to Lincoln, so a second one is not necessary.

The monument was dedicated on June 12, 1920 but it wasnt until later the pedastal was created. hxxp://people.msoe.edu/~peterson/suvcw- ... lcott.html not sure when the eagles disappeared.  interesting the architect did not only the eagles on the pedastal but the tiled terrace around it.  would love to see if the tiled area matches the lady's collar in our P.

Unknown: I just figured out a clue in this picture.  The top of her cloak appears to be the trunk of a tree turned sideways.  The base of the tree is on the right, and the top of the trunk is on the left.  There is even a knothole in the middle.  This could be the tree next to which the treasure is buried. If this is correct, then the trees we found do look like this, with grayish-vertically fissured-rough looking bark.

Some pictures of Milwaukee City Hall:

Could the outline of our lady's cape represent the Menomonee River in Milwaukee? From stercox: ...and based on the same theory (but not as clear):

I've posted some recent photos from Milwaukee at Webshots: hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/quantpsy/

Last night I was checking out google earth if you have it check out milwaukee city hall in that vicinity there are two parks Red Arrow Park and pere marquette and two bridges but the one thing that stood out was that the ground in one of then matched the ladies neck

Unknown: but the one thing that stood out was that the ground in one of then matched the ladies neck Can you be more specific? I just looked at both and I can't see any resemblance. ...but it is nice that Google finally got around to mapping Milwaukee.

Just out of curiosity - did the verses related to the 2 found casque's have any tie-in to a president in any way?  I noticed mention of Lincoln here.  I also noticed that verse 6 is linked to Lincoln (see my post in the verse 6 thread).  I am working on something here that is also tied to a president in Florida...

The Chicago find involved a statue of Lincoln.

The Cleveland find involved Martin Luther King.

Interesting... I am looking at something currently tied to President Coolidge.  (any other tie to a president in Cleveland?  MLK may have been important historically, but I was trying to see if there was a president theme going).  I have not looked at the other verse discussions here except v5 and v6.

A theme running through these verses/sites more perverse than President's is slavery. May though just be the point in history (civil war) in which some sites were established.

The only theme I am convinced of is "immigration / culture," since that is the theme underlying the journey of the fair folk to the new world in the book. The Chicago picture and location had to do with Irish immigration, and the Cleveland picture and location had to do with Greek immigration. If The Secret involves slavery at all, it will only be because that is how Africans first immigrated here, and will pertain to only one picture/verse combination (P2/V?). Charleston - and Sullivan Island in particular - was a major port for the slave trade. The Cleveland find didn't really involve MLK, I think. Wasn't Liberty Blvd. renamed to MLK after The Secret was published? Lincoln did crop up again in Milwaukee, with the cast in copper reference to Lincoln Memorial Drive.

May be stretching it, but look at this post from Adoks53 on Tweleve: hxxp://www.tweleve.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=4352 Interesting to note the street in the closeup of the Menlo Park Lab Tablet is Route 27, or LINCOLN Highway. However, I have not looked at v10 or pic11 really myself.  Just found it very interesting with two, and possibly 3 links to Lincoln so far after just starting to look at this over the last few days (I am new to the Secret - only 24 years late!).

hi all.. I think i am going to throw my hat in on this one.. Wisc. is close to me and this might be fun.. [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

Shadowrunner wrote:: hi all.. I think i am going to throw my hat in on this one.. Wisc. is close to me and this might be fun.. [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow] *lol*  Once an addict always an addict!

Hi all, just got back from Milwaukee Wisc.. did a extensive walkthru involving the city hall area .. and the stretch from the shoreline all the way north to Lake park in a big circle.. took many photos and referanced everything on my GPS for later.. a few questions though.. 1) anyone definitivly find the woman playing the harpsicord? 2) and the compass? itll take several days to sort this out.. now that i have actually been there and talked to every park employee , police officer , and fire fighter i saw, i even got myself into the masonic lodge and talked to the masons for a bit lol.. i am having a problem with verse 8 and image 10 working together.. could just be me being blind though.. lol be safe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowhunter[/glow]

HI all ,, i would like to clarify the questions.. even now after i have gone there and come back and now looked to see what was posted.. i found this first on today and sorta screwed myself in my thinking .. basically discarding the lighthouse.. which i see now in the great walkthru that was done... ill attempt to attatch it now.. thanks all [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow] hmmm.. wont allow me to paste.. ok ill put it in my web page...

ok, its on the home page right at the top.. www.troll-werks.com i have the coords for it off my GPS also... N43 03.358 W87 52.690 hope i have added something.. by the looks of it the sprites have been at it ... moving the trees around again LOL be safe all [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

Geez!  Nice find Shadow.  That's a good compass!

That's the Charles Allis Villa Terrace Art Museum.  Yep, we checked this out extensively during our tour in Milwaukee.  It never really added up to V8, the verse of interest for Milwaukee, nor any other verses. But hey, we didn't dig it up either--so any new thoughts are always welcome.

Stercox, just curious, how many steps are there (going up from street level to the museum)?

I don't know if we actually did the stair count on these, there was a locked iron gate at the bottom of the stairs going up into the italian gardens there, if I remember right, denying access.  The top of the hill closer to the building was residential, without bridges or compasses or culverts or birch trees.  Prior to our tour in Milwaukee, we looked at this site on line and you can get a little info and some pictures of the interior courtyards.  Once we saw it on our visit--We dismissed it--because it was not a good fit--but, like I said--we dug at our favorite spot and the casque was not there either--so, although, I still don't think that it is a good fit--It's still a possibility and still in the game.

First off, we need to know how long that compass has been there.  If it was there prior to 1981, then that would be too much of a coincidence to just throw away.  Shadow, know how long?

Hey, I've been lurking substantially, much more active over on Tweleve.  Just stopping by to let y'all know that someone named Regulus has posted over there that he found the Milwaukee casque yesterday in Lake Park.  It bears watching as it develops. Here's the link: hxxp://www.tweleve.org/forum/viewtopic. ... 646#117646 Cheers- Moscow

I don't know guys.  Regulus posted a pic of a rock, no casque pictured.

hi guys, Although i would be the first to cheer and break out the beverages for finding a casque... this one seems a little suspect..the description alone, what little was put there, makes my eyebrow raise. well have to see on this one.. i personally am leary of it though... be safe [glow=red,2,300]Shadowrunner[/glow]

Don't get me wrong, i'm leary too.  That's why you'll see my first response over there is to ask for pics.  But it is worth watching at least.

I hope this is true but it seems a little strange.......the first photo of the rock that he claims was found underground has moss on it

Perhaps this gentleman can be asked to share his info here.

I looked at the pictures, and I must say that the dirt and grass that he posted look EXACTLY like the dirt and grass from our dig in Milwaukee.

This moron posted finally that he DID NOT find the casque but he will find it in a couple of weeks.......rambled on about being tired of knowing where a treasure is but getting there too late.....and something about the Beale papers.......

Retardulus.

too da#% funny....Retardulus Not another one of those newbies claiming to have all the answers but no time to retrieve.  I sure hate ppl like that. As for your question Fenix.....most of the people at 12 working on this hunt are regulars with ties to here.  There are only a few that dont but they dont seem to be playing the "PM me if you want to trade ideas" game.

I have a map... and it has some streets that are in Milwaukee.. and if I can find the guy that can find the casque... maybe I can trade him my map... maybe Sometimes reality sets in and people realize that they really are not alone and what they say isn't just thoughts in their brain.

johann wrote:: Perhaps this gentleman can be asked to share his info here. perhaps not... wilhouse

Sorry, Wilhouse.  Meant no offense.

The reason the rebus puzzle is in this image instead of coordinates is because, there is a casque in Chicago.  Milwaukee and Chicago are too close together to have different coordinates. Sorry if this has been posted already. -regulus

There are facets of image ten that may have been overlooked.  If that gem is indeed a Sapphire, then according to the litany, it implies Spain.  Second, the person appears to be standing on a shoreline.  Hazy, indstinct, but there seems to be water behind the dirt.  Second, the castle is (possibly) a view of the Milwaukee City Hall from behind-- from the front, an optical illusion makes it look like one, tall skinny tower.  This is on most of the street signs in Milwaukee, and is used as a general 'civic symbol.'  The two red balls also appear in front of Miller park by themselves.  Every single painting conatins a key, or sometimes two.  The juggling may refer to the Great Milwaukee Circus Parade, a cultural icon of Wisconsin in general, since Baraboo is where all of the midgets and 'freaks' live (or lived) since Barnum and Bailey's world circus and museum is there.

oh boy, here we go again. the 'castle' was determined to be the milwaukee civic center long ago. i remain hesitant to suggest perusing the past threads.

Civic Center and City Hall are the same place; I looked up images of both and received the same building, which is the one in the painting.  I assumed people would know I'm in agreement.  I forgot to mention-- City Hall (the one on E.Wells St, the 'castle') and veterans park/juneau park/lake park have about 7 blocks between them.  Easily within walking distance, assuming BP didn't drive or take a bus.  The bus might have even taken him to the Transpotation Center, which is sort of caddycorner to Burns Commons as well...

yes, city hall is what i meant

Me too...

In the Secret Wiki under the solution to this image, it is mentioned that the below item is believed to be a 17-year locust. After studying this, I don't think it is, but what it really is isn't clear either. I took it out of the large image and enhanced the outlines in a couple different ways. To me, it almost looks like a cave entrance, or the opening in a group of trees or a wall--what do you all think? Does this look familiar to those of you who have been to the park?  (Note: the last image is not enhanced or outlined, so you could see that I wasn't fudging the outlines.)

I suggested locust because it looks kinda like those insect husks we used to pick off of pine trees when I was a kid. We called them "locusts" even though they are more properly called cicadas. Apparently I am not the only one who grew up calling them locusts: hxxp://www.pbase.com/taylor/cidadas The shape suggested itself to me even before I noticed there is a Locust St. that intersects with Lake Park. At the very least, it looks like a bug with a large, segmented abdomen. Some really good images can be seen by searching Google images for "cicada skin."

Forest, this does look like those "locust shells" we used to hook on to our clothes. (We called them locusts in NY, too.) The birdwatchers in Lake Park  refer to "Locust Ravine" where they walk and take groups on outings. hxxp://home.wi.rr.com/phunter1/lakeparkbirds.html Locust Ravine extends off E Locust St. and is North of where we have been searching. This link takes you to a map of Lake Park.  You can click on each location and see a photo.  There are 5 large bridges. hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/explore.shtml AP

There have been questions about the color of the stone in image 10. If it is an amethyst, why isn't it purple? I Googled on "Blue Amethyst" and here is what  I found. hxxp://tinyurl.com/2v4j7o It looks similar to the light blue color of the jewel in image 10. Amethyst can be found in Idar-Oberstein district of Germany. You learn something new every day! AP

The following is not meant to offend or be argumentative, but only reflects my opinion. I tend not to believe that Palencar made that gem blue on purpose, but perhaps got it wrong accidentally, or perhaps the original artwork shows a more pronounced purplish hue. I have never seen a blue amethyst, and even the one you showed us pictured is quite suspicious as amethyst, according to the research I've done. The lightest lavender stones of ameythyst might take on a bluiISH tint, but that stone in your URL location is downright sky blue---and no where have I seen any indication that amethyst is ever any color but some shade of purple, or yellow (when heated--that's what citrine is.) I'm not believing a blue amethyst, no matter what they say. I've seen too many of them, and even if they were rare, I think I'd have run across the variant at least once. I have attended numerous gem shows and rock shows--and have never even heard of a blue one--but you best believe that I'm going to ask about them next time I go! Thing is, quartz can be almost any color, and be called almost anyTHING someone wants to call it. Every year someone who makes synthetic stones comes up with a new variation--look at all the "topaz" variations: Fire, Mystic, Pink, Opal, Blue, Sea Mist, even white. When I was a kid, topaz were gold or yellow. Now, I expect to see them in any color. So who knows...it's possible, I guess, but in my experience, I don't think likely. Yet.....there it is. So who knows?

She, I agree that amethyst is universally acknowledged to be purple. Here is a poem that I found that begs to differ. It does not prove anything, but it does make one think that there may be something to the idea that amethyst just may be blue, too. AP hxxp://www.lovepoetry.com/poem.asp?x_id=7170

Moving away from the "Blue Amethyst" theories for a moment, I would like to point out the shadowy figure to the bottom right of the City hall Silhouette; That thing looks like a number of things, but it looks MOST like three: A Centurion, with just part of the helemt and cape showing, A horse wearing that wierd horse armor that cavaliers had (the type with the long flowing blanket thing), or a feathered headress of some sort.  There is a strong implication that it is a roman soldier, if you look at the fact that Roman Numerals are generally accepted to be prevalent for this particular riddle... They even appear as the numbers which the other paintings disguised!  I can't spend a lot of time posting pics to support this, but look at the strands of the figure's hair, the "tree" shapes, and other Numerics.  This won't help anyone for anything other than indicating Milwaukee by map coords, which they do, but I was hoping that it would make the painting more open, that is, less vague on some details.  There is a 4, 3, 7 and MAYBE an 8, if anyone cares to dig that deep...  (IV in the hair, VII backwards as the trees, III next to the IV, and eight distinct 'notches' in the tree trunks, unless anyone cares to find another)  Milwaukee is located at 43N by 87W.

This multi-trunk tree (4 trunks) is no longer there. It was removed sometime after 09/2007.  (I was so surprised when I saw it in this older photo taken last summer.) The place where it used to stand is between the two lion bridges. You would see it when you "pass the compass". If it were the multi-trunk tree in Image 10, it would have been a "confirmer" that you were on the right track. (It would answer my question as to why the other multi-trunk tree was down by the soccer field, so far from the ravines.) If it has absolutely nothing to do with the hunt, then at least it is interesting to note how impermanent  the presence of trees can be. AP

I am glad you brought this up. The possibility that the tree talked about was cut down is a very real possibility. Try to find images from the early '80s as to what the area looked like. The park office may have records of trees that have been cut. Keep the faith.

Scottrocks, You are absolutely right! Photos from the past would be the best way to find "the letter from the country of Wonderstone's hearth", in order to determine the correct "proud tall 5th". I've been doing more research on the history of Lake Park and have been in contact with the "Lake Park Friends" representative concerning the Girl Scout Trail Markers in the Ravines.  She has a copy of a booklet given to them by the Girl Scouts back in the 60's when this trail was created for "badge requirements". As soon as she can find the booklet, she will send one to me. Maybe it will have a map of the locations of the markers. I will let you know as soon as it is available. Lake Park Friends is also having a day of sharing old park photos in a power point presentation in May.  Maybe they will have photos of the Lighthouse Ravines on Lincoln Memorial Drive from the 60's-80's. We need to see what BP saw back in 1982. I hope it is evident in this up-coming information. AP

hxxp://www.ballparkdigest.com/images/mi ... GP3682.jpg

New to quest. Team Meaner Simikkles wants to know why everyone says the gem on this image is an amethyst when it is LIGHT BLUE in color, NOT purple. It looks like a blue topaz or aquamarine to us. Would it matter if it was a different gem? "We may not be first, but at least we are not last!"

cormac, that site doesn't work for me, would you try again?

So sorry. It was working back in November, but no longer, and (with life getting in the way) I don't even remember what it was. I have requested the image from the contacts at their website, and if they email me a copy of the picture I will post. Chad (Cormac)

thanks cormac, sorry i didn't notice it was an old post team meaner simikkles, keeping an open mind on this...it can't be the aquamarine because it was found, the topaz is possible....after reading paperclips post about the jewels: "It should also be noted that in the colored plates, 6 of the stones had what is known as an 'emerald' (square-shaped) cut (diamond, garnet, aqumarine, emerald, peridot, and topaz) while 5 others had a 'cabachon' (smooth and round top with flat bottom) cut (sapphire. turquoise, ruby, opal, and amethyst) while the remaining 1 could be considered 'uncut' (the pearl)."  (from paperclip's post) this image has the "primrose", flower for february, and the birthstone for february is the amethyst........ just confusing with the "cuts" of the stones, and i guess it is possible the flower is something else........... and the two red balls indicate february...

Unknown: and the two red balls indicate february... This has the potential for great song lyrics.

lol! glad you're back ck! of course i had to try....(to the tune of Otis Lee Crenshaw's (rich hall)  prison song, " 'tho he beats me black and blue, in the dark, it's true, he almost looks like you") the two red balls indicate february the time of his sudden cardio pulmonary why they are red is arbitrary doesn't really matter to his beneficiary it was during his treasure quest he had a cardiac arrest i guess it's true in the dark, red hot pipes look blue

Slappy, Such creativity so early in the morning... AP

i'm so easily distracted, lol AP, i'm trying to find certain shapes in the images to match certain places in the parks, do you think, looking at this map: hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/explore.shtml that #13 could be the top of her head and she is looking back toward #12, the steel arch bridge? hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/explore/ ... idge.shtml and could that shape and design around her neck be the steel arch bridge?

Slappy, Anything is possible... But I personally think that the "lady" in P10 is there solely for her representation of the "Lion Bridge" lion's face. There was a photo taken by Stercox of the doors of a Milwaukee landmark,  The Pabst Theater. It was a pretty close match  to the collar design. Keep on searching.  You have great powers of observation and creative thinking...and are using them on so many of the verses and pictures! AP hxxp://news.webshots.com/photo/29851759 ... 0493bbBkAX

Unknown: he two red balls indicate february the time of his sudden cardio pulmonary why they are red is arbitrary doesn't really matter to his beneficiary it was during his treasure quest he had a cardiac arrest i guess it's true in the dark, red hot pipes look blue t BEAUTIFUL!!! lol..... I loved it! And thanks!

thank you, you guys   ;D sorry guys, those lake park sites i just posted, just disappeared since yesterday

In Milwaukee, we had a small respite from the sub-zero temperatures last Saturday. (It got up to the 40's for one day.)  Early Sunday, before church, I took a drive to the lakefront to look around. Even after a 40-degree day, there was still a foot or more of snow in the park. Neither my soil probe nor shovel  could break the frozen ground . (After all, it is still February...I am jumping-the-gun for "digging" by about 3 months.) One thing about winter...the trees are quite visible with no foliage. There is one white birch along the lakefront.  It stands out like a sore thumb... But it is just a sapling compared to most of the other trees. If there were any large birches along the lakefront, they would definitely be easy to spot. Hurry, Spring! AP

AP, i'm not convinced that design is for the theatre.  you're already at lake park with the verse, and going straight from the theater would take you to juneau park.  (that's how it looks to me from google earth) seems to me that design should be in the park, like the bridges there with the iron work, some of those look pretty close to the design to me.... 3 more months of winter there?  aighhhh that's rough. ..i think i'll keep working on the southern hunts a little longer, lol

Slappy, This is a link to page 10 of the "Milwaukee Update" thread. The pictures I posted show a great similarity to the collar design. The park is within walking distance of Lake Park. AP hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h ... 637#p64637

slappybuns wrote:: cormac, that site doesn't work for me, would you try again? Here we go... figured out what the picture likely was, duplicated the idea, posted picture. Basically just a picture of the Red Balls at Miller Park Milwaukee

I probably don't have to point out that Miller Park is less than 10 years old.  Wikipedia should have told you that. But also, isn't it more likely that the red balls represent the markers for the women's tees on the golf course in Lake Park.  They're the same.  If you've ever golfed more than one course, you know that tee markers can be different shapes and sizes (within reason) -- but the ones on the Lake Park course happen to be spheres.  This fits with the best "solve" for this casque I've seen -- the one that addressed a large felled birch near the tees of one of the holes on this course.  (It's somewhere in one of these threads... I believe ShadowRunner came up with it a few years ago?  Not sure.) I don't mean to be contrary here -- but all the best-supported interpretations of this image and verse point to a burial in Lake Park.

hxxp://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/97208334.html

gone for good?

I just wonder if they removed any "birches" during their reconstruction.

This image reminds me of cricket; the red balls, and shapes in the cloak that remind me of bails. The castle in the distance resembles image 5 ...and the figure too; like an older and sadder version, with blue cap ...and decorative ruff... The juggling makes me think cascade , or waterfall. ...goes with the millstone. (cf image 5 again.)

I think the Field Guide has caricatures of several images, some more obvious than others. I've always thought this juggler went with Elf S Presley.

I'm starting to get my head round the regional-influence-thing and now I see why Milwaukee was selected as a likely spot, with its German credentials. I haven't read up on the image 6 research yet, but I wonder if it might be worth thinking about these the other way round. From the Wiki, it looks like image 10 was chosen for Feb (German, amethyst) because of the primrose, and image 6 was chosen for Sept (Spanish, sapphire) because of the asters. And those flowers look right. On the other hand, the gem in image 10 looks more like a sapphire than an amethyst: ...and although the obvious gem in image 6 looks like a sapphire, you can also see an amethyst candidate as well... (...whereas in image 10, I can't) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * So...I thought maybe Las Vegas could be Sept (it has Spanish roots; they named it), and image 6 could be Feb (German). Since Milwaukee goes well with Germany, I took a look at Wisconsin and image 6, to see if there was a fit. I don't think it's too bad. Looks like a face looking backwards to the right. (Of course, that would mean finding 43 and 88 in image 6. 88 is easy, I'll have to think about the 43... ) (I haven't finished reading up on all the previous findings, so this is just speculative...)

WhiteRabbit, I can see how one would be able to come at this with no preconceived notions...and find new ideas to link with image 10. But I do believe you are going to be "chasing your tail" as long as you disregard the work which has been done here already. There is no place in America other than Milwaukee where you will find the perfect match to the the building towers of image 10...the silhouette of Milwaukee's city hall. hxxp://thesecret.pbworks.com/10_LM But I hope you enjoy your search. AP

kibitz wrote:: Has anyone else noticed that this... Looks like this... Unknown: A German legend tells of a little girl who found a flower covered doorway which opened to a magical fairy castle when she touched it with a primrose. Hi AP - I don't mean to disregard all the great research that's been done on this book, but I haven't caught up with all the details yet. Thanks for pointing that out...I'll go take a look... *edit* ...darn, that's not bad. I missed those links. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I suppose that might relate to the sapphire/amethyst switch. * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *

Some 1881 links with Milwaukee & primroses, while I remember them. (Different image, but things tend to recur, so here they are anyways.) Benjain Disraeli died, British prime minister associated with primroses and the Primrose League . Birth of Daniel Hoan , Milwaukee mayor. Big snowstorm that year. Marquette University founded. (Someone compared the figure to Joan of Arc .) Artistic style is maybe Pre-Raphaelite; eg Rossetti. (That's Joan on the left. I think his wife modelled most of his paintings.) On millstones: And a certain woman cast a piece of a millstone upon Abimelech's head, and all to brake his skull. (Judges) Elizabeth Cady Stanton mentions millstones and Joan of Arc. Suffrage. The 48ers . He was a doughty soldier, but when it came to the intellectuals--when it came to delicate chicane, and scheming, and trickery--he couldn't see any further through a millstone than another. So he burst out in his frank warrior fashion, and swore that the King of England was being treacherously used, and that Joan of Arc was going to be allowed to cheat the stake. Twain - "Personal reflections of Joan of Arc"

WhiteRabbit, Your pictures of the ladies are very pretty, but... Here is a comparison of the face in image 10 to the face of the lion statue on the bridge pediment at Milwaukee's Lake Park. What do you think? AP

(...having scanned the other threads on Lake Park, I can see there's strong evidence for this site, so could be...)

(Moved to Verse 8 thread)

and the likeness to the girl scout symbol: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Girl_Scouts_of_the_USA AP, just wondering if there was any type of imperial cross (star)  symbol anywhere there, have you seen one? sort of like this: hxxp://cgi.ebay.com/WW1-Star-Grand-Knig ... 0581188506 maybe that's just saying "compass" too still like the area down around the bottom of the grand staircase, pretend the light part of the cloak is the staircase, and the small part by her neck, the bottom of the stairs, then the jewel is  somewhere down near the bottom of the staircase  :)

Slappy, I too think that the verse takes us on a circuitous route from the Grand Stairway...up...down...and back to the Lake Front near the stairway. In searching all of the ravines and wooded areas, I have seen only one place with multiple large live birch trees... the Girl Scout Ravine... (The golf course has the one live tree and the large dead tree.) Unless a birch tree has been totally removed before 2004, when the search of the Lake Front began in earnest,  those live birches must be part of the references in the verse.

(...was going to ask if there were birches in that area, but you already answered that. Would be interested to see a sketch of the circuit you have in mind...)

AP, do you think the cloak could just be the shape of the park?  then that little notch in the cloak would be the entrance from lincoln memorial dr. (by the stairs)? so then you would end up back down by the lighthouse (or across from it)  if you see it like that, right? have you poked around wolcotts horse's southern foot? i still like that he had to remove a kidney, thinking of drinking a fifth of liquor (guess that would be a liver?) i also like that it says "delighted" on there, seems like words BP used only things on that end are him, the lion bridges and the lighthouse there is a service bldg. down there too has the map always had "22" areas to explore, was thinking if BP had the map, maybe he was pointing to "#22        :) or the "5"th.........the playground? south =left................ on west side when facing north "at IT' s southern foot" or opposite of north

slappybuns wrote:: AP, do you think the cloak could just be the shape of the park?  then that little notch in the cloak would be the entrance from lincoln memorial dr. (by the stairs)? so then you would end up back down by the lighthouse (or across from it)  if you see it like that, right? Slappy, Anything is possible, but I have a hard time seeing the cape/cloak as anything but a tree. I was recently looking over my photos taken in 2007.  There was a piece of birch limb (about 12 inches in diameter) on the ground in the woods along the asphalt oval...20-30 feet North of the Girl Scout tree...near the young birch tree. I did not see it there on my most recent search. It was badly decayed at that time.

In 2007, there was a cut stump not too far away. I could not identify it as a birch.  When I used my soil probe, I disturbed a nest of ground bees.   I did not want to dig into that.

Shape in cape...? I was looking for a suggestion of the shape of the bridge, and wondered about the key... Perhaps you could say that the glowing face is the lighthouse, and the red ball to the north represents the golf course. (Just brainstorming.) The rocky outline that cuts across the middle of the key could represent the ravine. * * * * * If the verse as far as "pass the compass" and "below the bridge" led to the trail under the south lion bridge, how far would 100 paces southeast actually get you...? Would it get you to a point right of a lion, or the road...? (Perhaps the foot of the culvert below the bridge could possibly mean south of the bridge; below on a map; rather than literally underneath.)

slappybuns wrote:: that little notch in the cloak I reversed the cape pic previously, but if it was left unreversed, the notch could be the junction with Lincoln Memorial Drive by the south bridge shown above. (I like the similarity of the narrow neck at the bottom, and that triangular southern tail.) (If you reached the open road, that three you pass could be anything...buildings, turnings...might put the gem in this area, or somewhere else away from the park.) (Don't suppose there are birches near that junction...?)

That tree on the left was the bane of our existence for most of a day. Not a birch, though -- cottonwood if I remember right. But then, we don't know how much of an arborist BP was...

Why is that woman looking over her left shoulder?  Preiss did the left shoulder thing with Lincoln in Chicago also.

Yeah, there's a kind of echo in the Boston fairy she's looking across at. As well as: "Beyond his shoulder", it also reminds me of the line from verse 1 - "Looking back from treasure". Neither verse is thought to be related to these images, but matching the right ones up is a significant part of the puzzle. Maybe things like this are designed to draw you in. Or maybe it's just the human affinity for pattern matching. The most likely explanation of this profile view so far is the Girl Scouts logo which appears (or used to appear) on certain trees in Milwaukee's Lake Park to mark a walking trail. There's also a possible resemblance between the figure and the lions on the lion bridges here. There's a lot to read on Milwaukee, in several different threads. Like several other trails on this forum, it got infuriatingly close. This one is pretty difficult because the verse seems to refers to trees which may not be there any more. There are some confusing things about it, though.

Unknown: Zeidler Union Square In 1835 five Milwaukee pioneers:  Byron Kilbourn, Solomon Juneau, Albert Fowler, James McCarty and Archibald Clybourn donated the 1.2 acre site to the City of Milwaukee. The park, originally known as Union Square, is bounded by West Michigan Street on the north, West Everett on the south between North Third and North Fourth Streets. This site became the first public park within the City of Milwaukee. The City of Milwaukee subsequently renamed the park Fourth Ward Square, which it was called when the site was ultimately turned over to Milwaukee County as part of the consolidation of parks in 1937. During the 1950’s, the Milwaukee County Board named the park Pere Marquette.  This move coincided with the receipt of a gift from Marquette High School of a life-size marble statue of Father Marquette which was placed in the park.  (A bronze replica of the original statue now stands in the current Pere Marquette Park). In the 1960’s, the site was renamed Carl F. Zeidler Park in honor of the former Mayor.  Carl Zeidler, a Milwaukee born and educated lawyer, who became the City’s 33rd mayor in 1940 when he defeated Daniel Hoan. In 1942, Zeidler left office to become an officer in the U.S. Navy.  Later that same year the ship he was serving aboard was torpedoed and all hands were lost.  His younger brother Frank served as Milwaukee mayor from 1948 to 1960. Zeidler Union Square came into being in 1995 when the County Board renamed the park to recognize the contributions of the labor movement in Milwaukee County’s history. The Milwaukee County Labor Council AFL-CIO constructed a new gazebo/bandstand within the park.  This facility, which contains features that symbolize various elements of the labor movement, replaced an aging bandstand which had been donated by Blue Cross of Wisconsin in 1977. Thanks to the generosity of several civic-minded individuals almost 165 years ago as well as more recent contributions by business and labor, Zeidler Union Square is able to provide an oasis of green in the heart of downtown Milwaukee. I was wondering about the perspective and angle of the image and noticed there's a new building in the way at 111 E. Kilbourn Ave.  The Milwaukee Center was built in 1988.  I thought it was looking a bit newfangled compared to the City Hall. From a distancing perspective that puts the spires at the right angle I end up several blocks to the south west.  That seems to take us away from Lake Park, any one know of any attempts to find a camera angle with a person standing in foreground that would resemble this image?  Preferably someone who can juggle. Edit:  okay, I had some success doing some math based on estimations of the woman's height and shoulder width (shoulders are about twice as wide as the distance between spires on the Cityhall in the image) and based on the angle of perspective that lands directly on a spot to the south west called Zeidler Park. Earlier today I had a few ideas and thought this old painting of Jacques Marquette looked similar to the woman: Here's an excerpt from a document about the history of Zeidler Park: I like that there is a Byron associated with the park's history.  I like the way Marquette connects by being portrayed with a robe and hands that are similar to the woman and Marquette use to be associated with this park.  I noticed that the name changed to Zeidler Union Park in 1995.  It was Carl Zeidler Park when this hunt started.  Perhaps the initials "CZ" are a veiled reference to "Czech" or "Check" as in a checkerboard.  We see those in lots of images.

Personally, I do not think that we have to be standing at the casque site to see City Hall.  I think it is just a unique building that when found...leads us to Milwaukee.  Just like the Terminal Tower and the old water tower lead us to Cleveland and Chicago. A picture of City Hall was located and posted somewhere in these threads that pretty much exactly matched the foggy outline in the image.

Zeidler Park looks a bit too exposed and neatly manicured. I think we're probably looking for somewhere more scruffy and secluded...

When I did the math and got to this spot I got the idea that it was a link to continue south towards Mitchell st.  I'm not sure how to interpret the verse because I'm still stuck on believing in Lake Park, but I came across some references to Mitchell being referred to as the Polish Grand and there is a cool horse and rider statue of a Great "Pole" at Kosciuzko Park.  Going southward in this direction comes from following the womans gaze after rotating the image to have the line of her hood match a river segment, thus rotating the image 90 deg right. The verse that repeats "distance in time" "distance in space" helps support doing a distance calculation based on perspective.  All you need is a ruler and and the height of the Cityhall and distance between spires to triangulate.

erexere, You do have a way of seeing things in a scientific, mathematical light. It is true that we have not found the casque here yet, but... If you were to walk the "trail" for yourself, you would be convinced of the rightness of the Lake Park area along the lake shore. AP

AP- I believe you...I just can't help but see where an alternative angle might lead.  I have nothing that says it isn't Lake Park.  The culvert and birches are enough to convince. If I am finding anything that sounds good and puts doubt to your solution, I hope to also find a way to remove that doubt.  I just love the possibilities. Edit:  I can't find any certain beginning to the course taken.  Much uncertainty stands between things seeming certain and then I find myself rethinking those on some level... Walking the beating of the world = ? Beach was my original thought, and then a war reference seemed more fruitfull...rethinking in accordance with Milwaukee history and path in mind, I wonder if it refers to the Bridge Battle between Kilbourn and Juneau.  Which bridge was that, where, still there since 1981?

Now I'm thinking what if "birch" is really "bridge". After Zeidler you could cross the bridge at Plankinton to 2nd and then turn right (west) on W. Greenfield (step onto nature = a green field?) and then pass over the freeway on an overpass (another bridge) and then turn south on 6th and pass a few more overpasses (not crossing, they are just parallel now) till you get to Koscuizsko Park and then turn east on Lincoln St. to face the south foot of the horse and rider statue of a 1/5 star general.  (Posted pics to the Verse 8 thread.) Seems to me that you do start in Lake Park, view the Mitchell Hall after climbing the Grand Stair and then walk into downtown as you travel south and west, continue past City Hall and turn south when you get to the US Cellular Arena (was Mecca) and continue to the corner of Zeidler, cross over to Plankington...  It all fits a path now. Once again, another spot that is pretty much out in the open and inconsistent with the other two finds.

Ah, Milwaukee, Milwaukee. Here we go round again. View the three stories of Mitchell The Mitchell Mansion, a “rambling three-storey yellow brick house”, where the German Club was established (this being the German image). hxxp://www.wisconsinclub.com/fw/main/History-4.html As you walk the beating of the world Dunno. It's 900 West Wisconsin Ave, “W WI” - World War One, or “world war won”...? At a distance in time From three who lived there The three businessmen who founded the club. At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing Marietta Ave bordering Lake Park, where we’re headed next. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marietta_Robusti Step on nature Oak Leaf Trail Cast in copper Lincoln Memorial Drive Ascend the 92 steps Lake Park, Grand Staircase After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Past North Point lighthouse, down the south ravine, under the bridge (don’t care which way you go), arrive at its foot (southern end) Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch You’re now back on Lincoln Memorial Drive. Pass three, staying west The verse hints that the gem is buried at the foot of a tall tree, but I don’t think so. Not an easy place to try and dig. And if the “fifth” isn’t a tree, the “three” aren’t either. Consider the clue of the juggler, a trickster passing the balls round in circles. We’re back on Lincoln Memorial Drive again. Let’s stay on it. In fact let’s go all the way back down, retracing our steps, back along West Wisconsin Ave to where we started, past the three storeys of Mitchell and the three who stayed on West Wisconsin Ave. The patterned collar has been identified as the Pabst Theatre. If you keep heading west along West Wisconsin Ave, past the German Club at 900, then you come to the Pabst Mansion at 2000. Might as well keep going now until you get to some green space like Wisconsin Avenue Park. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. Although the top of the tower has been identified, Milwaukee City Hall doesn’t account for the shape of the rest of it. There are similar diagonal rock shapes on the left edge of the pic. I’m wondering what these represent.

catherwood wrote:: I'm rather fond of the three domes at the Mitchell Park Horticultural Conservatory -- each dome tells a story (of sorts) by recreating a particular climate. ...took a quick look at Wisconsin Avenue Park and there isn't much there. But I just had another idea. Pass three, staying west Let's say these are the "three storeys of Mitchell" where we started, and now returning you pass them again. So the "fifth" could also be a story, or storey, of Mitchell. This area is close to Mitchell Park, which is much more interesting than Wisconsin Avenue Park. It has three of these horticultural domes. hxxp://county.milwaukee.gov/MitchellPar ... a10116.htm (Could that be the missing confirmer, visible from the casque site...? Remember that "casque" means "helmet". We see a similar-looking helmet worn in image 4.) (I see people were looking at these way back in 2004.) World-beating...? "...world's first conoidal domes...hailed as a world wonder when they were new..." Below the bridge There's a bridge overhead near the domes. I wonder how accessible that area is, and what it looks like. Wasn't the Chicago casque also buried near a railway line...? (Canadian Pacific Railway...that's the one built by George Stephen of dogleg fame. OK, so he probably had some help.) Just to clarify, what I'm doing here is following the verse to Lake Park and back on a long circular route, ending up near where you started, then picking out certain lines to try and pinpoint a spot. People looked at this as a starting point for the trail, but did they consider it as a finishing point?

(The Bing version...) The park was named after Alexander Mitchell (he owned that mansion that became the Wisconsin Club), a railroad man. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alexander_Mitchell_(politician) His grandson Billy Mitchell has been described as the "father of the US Air Force"... hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Billy_Mitchell_(general) (Reminds me of that shape in the cloak resembling a plane or shuttle.) Wonder if the "5th" is connected with Mitchell somehow...(fifth child or something). "The proud, swaggeringly aggressive Mitchell"... hxxp://www.anb.org/articles/06/06-00441.html M - a letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth. Wonder if that bridge has a name.

WR, great work on working with this image, so I'm sorry to offer a contradictory view, but I've only recently discovered the Bing interface, and I'm happy that it gives me a much better image of the tree where I believe the casque to be buried at it's southern foot. The park is named after a Polish war hero (a one out of five stars general) who is memorialized on horseback as a statue just a couple dozen paces away from this tree. The country of wonderstones hearth must be Poland.  I believe it's a reference to the Holocaust, where Germany = Wonderstone and Poland = gas chambers and cremetoria.

WR - Rereading "Walk 100 paces / Southeast over rock and soil" makes me wonder if the verse simply leads us *across* Lincoln Memorial to the other side of the road, where there are considerably fewer (and at the time, more obvious?) trees to choose from. It would be southeast, after all.

forest_blight wrote:: WR - Rereading "Walk 100 paces / Southeast over rock and soil" makes me wonder if the verse simply leads us *across* Lincoln Memorial to the other side of the road, where there are considerably fewer (and at the time, more obvious?) trees to choose from. It would be southeast, after all. (Yep, I was assuming it took us over the road...didn't someone once try to argue there was something over the road that could pass for a birch...? But I like the idea of the unexpected return visit to the original "three". I was also wondering if "...to the first young birch..." might alternatively be some "back to the start" signal to a birch at the beginning of the trail. Also, reflecting that V12 isn't a straightforward, sequential list of directions from one street to the next, it might be worth opening this up to a less linear interpretation; more a collection of ideas or references.) At the moment I like Mitchell Park a lot, having only just discovered the dome connection. I'll be looking for the shape next. AP - do you know that area by the Mitchell Park bridge I'm looking at, or would you consider a visit...?

I don't know Mitchell Park, but the area downhill from North Point has the distinction of being the only place I have actually dug for hidden treasure (failed, of course) -- with our very own Pinetree and Stercox. I think "fifth" and "pass three staying west" must all refer to birches, since the item that began the list is a birch and there is no indication that we are talking about something different when we get to these latter four.

Also, don't forget -- as ShadowRunner once discovered -- that the two red balls in the picture are a very possible visual confirmer for the red tee markers for the golf course in the park.  Which probably means that the casque site is near one of the tees, or you have to pass nearby the tees on your way to the site. All courses are different and have different tee markers (example here ).  I doubt this is a coincidence.

It is exciting to see interest in Milwaukee once again! But I have to say that the abundance of clues and visual confirmers for Lake Park leave no doubt for me as to the casque's location...especially with BP using "steps" to denote distances. The "Domes" are miles away from Lake Park.:-( AP

forest_blight wrote:: ...the only place I have actually dug for hidden treasure (failed, of course) -- with our very own Pinetree and Stercox. Stercox wrote:: I've always had a pet theory that the three stories of Mitchell may refer to the Mitchell Domes, especially due to the dome looking structure hidden in the woman's hair Good to see you're still around AP! I have no doubt that the trail takes in Lake Park. Still, it strikes me that nothing else in any of the verses is so straightforward as the second half of this one seems to be. From Marietta to "pass three trees, and go here, and go there" is quite a change of style. And...basically, it doesn't work, taken literally. I think BP had a couple of tricks up his sleeve when he compiled these directions. I know the idea of backtracking down Lincoln isn't new; there was all that nonsense about lampposts and stuff. But it hadn't occurred to me to backtrack all the way before. (Of course, when it was first mooted, it wasn't strictly backtracking, since the trail was taken to start at the Mitchell building north of the park rather than the Mitchell Mansion to the south. But the city hall, the domes, the Pabst Theatre, the German connection, etc., are all south, and that one works equally well from the Lincoln Memorial Drive.) Stercox was a legend. And, of course, a big fan of the domes...

So get this, Kosciuszko the "proud tall fifth" General was a harpsichord composer!  Whowuddathunkit!?

I wanted to just give up on figuring out the path from Lake Park to Kosciuszko since the discovery of the tree near the statue, but I still feel the need to figure out 100%. At a glance, what do we see?  A woman.  She's juggling balls.  The balls are bright red and stand out in a dark and drab setting.  The rest of the details offer little mystery at this point.  MILL-WALK-KEY easily puts us in the right city.  The iconic courthouse building's spires are set in the background at a perspective that fits one particular street intersection.  The woman's pose is a combination of the Juneau on the Juneau statue plaque and Marquette in a well known oil painting.  Here cloak looks like a tree segment rotated clockwise 90 degrees.  Some minute features, like her hood, her collar and the flower in the juggling pattern are all that are left if there isn't something of a map segment integrated where edge meets edge. Using Falcon's image path, where do we start?  If it's just like the Cleveland image, then I'd say we are bound to start at the E. State St./ N. Water St. intersection where the two spires of the courthouse line up to match the perspective.  The problem with this starting place is it's the midpoint of a long trek spanning Lake Park and Kosciuszko Park...juggling indeed!  Perhaps this is the point of the juggling motif.  So, let's hop on this non-linear train and see how we can connect the dots. What connects the State/Water intersection to Lake Park?  The Oakleaf Trail.  There is a statue at the intersection of E. State and the Oakleaf Trail.  Leif, the Discoverer, son of Erik the Red.  This statue sits upon a large red sandstone base.  Is this our link to the red juggling balls?  For those convinced that this hunt begins and stays in Lake Park, this would represent the first major turn (a right turn) in a path should we start with climbing the Grand Stair, pass the compass (north point) and continue in that direction.  Perhaps the KEY to solving this puzzle is to WALK all over the place back and forth and MILL (grind) for these connections. I can see right now that a view of the Wisconsin Club isn't fitting in with a simple route.  My next move is to find the most direct way to 2nd street going south, because it seems the best fit for the line "at a distance in time".  I think that means I'll need to cut through Pere Marquette Park which is actually about 100 paces south east worth of traversing soil.  This puts me on Plankington and that puts me on 2nd St.  I'm just not going back to find a view of the three stories of Mitchell.  I am left to wonder if there's a different three stories that I'll encounter further down this path.  Looking at the map I see that W. Mitchell St. is coming up as I continue down 2nd St. (tbc)

walking around and grinding out the connections... I like the motif idea, but it sounds brutal.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: The castle in the distance resembles image 5...and the figure too; like an older and sadder version, with blue cap "Tall, proud fifth" and "its southern foot" just doesn't sound like a tree to me. How many feet do they have? I think it must be either something that has more than one foot, like a bridge, or something which extends geographically north and south, like a road or park. It could be a name you see on a map with a letter from "Germany" in it. For one thing, you simply wouldn't be able to dig close to the base of a tall tree, and so, where...? How far away...? At the very least, it would have to be beside a wall or some other reference point to the south of the tree IMHO. With BP so keen on not "despoiling nature" and all, I can't imagine him encouraging people to go hacking around beside tree roots. Those shapes in the cloak don't look like trees either. Their most distinctive feature are those strange ridges. There's a lot of lions going on here - Lake Park, and also "the Grand Staircase in the East Hall of the [German club] with its twenty-four lion heads took one craftsman seven years to build." Leo is the fifth sign of the zodiac, so "tall, proud fifth" might conceivably be a "tall, proud Leo". I was hoping Mitchell would be a Leo, but unfortunately he isn't (not the actual one the park was named after anyway). The only one I've found so far is Juneau, who also has a couple of decent image matches; the pose, the hand, and that brown texture. If you get back on Lincoln after Lake Park and "stay west", you go past him. I don't know what the "it" with the southern foot would be though - maybe Lincoln Memorial Drive itself, which goes for miles (North section and South section). Copper seems to feature quite prominently, with the coppery collar, verse reference etc. Or...the Oak Leaf Trail which winds alongside Lincoln Memorial Drive for miles, goes right over those Lion Bridges, past Juneau, and plummets south to Grant Park. That's a long way away, and would be very sneaky. Grant Park has a mill pond too. That sign is on a flight of steps at the entrance to its Seven Bridges Hiking Trail. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wimomz/3283129404/ What's another connection...? Grant Park! A dozen paintings share the clues Yet fairy secrets come in twos

WhiteRabbit wrote:: A dozen paintings share the clues Yet fairy secrets come in twos That is an interesting take on those lines.  I have always thought, and still basically do, that those lines simply meant that you need a pair of clues for each casque...the pair being (1) an image (2) a verse.

(Yep, I'm sure that is the basic meaning, as the rest of the verse explains. Still, I've always been interested in the possibility of "twinned" pictures, or of finding additional clues for a casque in a different image, so I thought I'd throw it in...) Millstone...the treasure waits...the treasure weights...?

forest_blight wrote:: Rereading "Walk 100 paces / Southeast over rock and soil" makes me wonder if the verse simply leads us *across* Lincoln Memorial to the other side of the road, where there are considerably fewer (and at the time, more obvious?) trees to choose from. It would be southeast, after all. **************************************************** **************************************************** OK, I've finally made up my mind about this verse. I don't care where you start. Agreed. Pass three, staying west Head west on Lincoln Memorial Drive and pass three of something. Birches? Maybe. Whatever. You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth Continuing down this way, you eventually spy Juneau, straight down Kilbourn from the towers identified in the image. Here he is, seen from Lincoln Memorial Drive, with plenty of "German" letters on him. I'm convinced the juggler shows Solomon Juneau, founder of Milwaukee, a tall proud Leo (fifth sign), as depicted on this monument. At its southern foot The treasure waits Juneau/Leo is a cryptic hint for the lion bridge. At the southern foot of the lion bridge, the treasure waits. These tall arch shapes under the bridge are the sleeves. There are various shapes that could be the bridge itself. I reckon it was buried somewhere around the base of the bridge at its southernmost point, and that we're looking for a visual confirmer in the image. I have an idea that it might be on a corner, with this clue in the fingers... Remember that it's a key that was buried. (Would be interested to see some more pics of this corner area. Or just dig there. Surely worth a try...?!)

WR, I have dug and probed around the edges of the Southern "foot". What makes it difficult is the rocky foundation soil. My thinking was that this was the 5th bridge. AP

What did you think of those two image matches for the corner though AP...? It narrows it down to a couple of square feet. Have you tried digging at that specific spot...? Pretty please...?  ;)

Is this a birch?

erexere wrote:: Is this a birch? looks like it probabably about 8 years old or so...

What about this tree, assuming the same growth rate as 'white birch'? I'm a beginner when it comes to trees and their growth.  Fortunately I grew up in a town that is similar in latitude and in the ballpark for elevation as well.  Main difference is it's colder in the winters for Milwaukee and it rains a lot more in the Summer there.  The Pacific Ocean vs Lake Michigan isn't an easy thing to compare, but hey, lots of water, check, so we're not looking at a desert vs an island... A lot of environmental factors may be considered when it comes to tree growth.  I hope comparing growth rates might be useful to at least help me rule out or maintain some ideas where trees are concerned.  The picture above is of a tree in front of my childhood home.  I know it was a tiny thing when I learned to emulate Evil Knievel in 76; I would bunny hop that little thing with my bicycle...oh that tree must hate me...then there was the time I landed on it when doing leaps from the roof in 1980.  It use to look real sad like that tree in Charlie Brown's Christmas.  Anyways, it's all grown up now and there is no sign of the sugar maple that preceded it, planted about 12 feet to the right.  I remember the sugar maple grew at about the same rate as the cherry in the back yard.  The data chart I referenced confirms that as well.  I totally wanted to tap it for syrup some day, but never got around to it before moving off to college. I think the white birch I posted earlier could be pushing 40 or more.  If it's anywhere between 22 to 26 inches in circumference then it's gotta be over 7 (diameter) x 5 (growth rate) = 35 years old. Here, I found a picture of a nearby car to get an idea that this is probably a good 8 inch in diameter tree. The reason I am getting into this is that this looks like the only birch in the Kosciuszko Park.  That just makes for an interesting case when heading south from this tree, staying on the west side of the park and passing three street light poles takes you to a mailbox (Letter from the country?  I wonder if this sign or one similar to it was here 30 years ago.) The yellow rectangle is approx. where this tree is located, though you can't see it through the foilage, across from 822 W. Lincoln Ave.

erexere wrote:: What about this tree, assuming the same growth rate as 'white birch'? I dont think you can compare them that ones looks like a pine of some kind. Pine trees grow a lot slower than trees that lose the leaves every year. I have a maple in my yard it is 3 stories tall and  20 inches around at the base. it is 9 years old , I planted it as a bare root twig...

Tree height is a very diferent issue.  In this case I've seT some good parameters and focus on the estimation of age by linking girth and tree growth from a chart reference.  The months of April through October are very close in temperature between Portland (OR) and Milwaukee (WI).  Trees dont grow much during cold climate times while in their dormancy so the lower winter temp in one doesnt apply as much.  Precipitation isnt much of an issue, since neither has frequent drought.  Similar Latitude and elevation leaves only the soil and harmful environment variables. Im only an expert on my own yard, as you probably are in yours.  My cherry, plum, maple, pine and fir all fit the chart, so I know I've found a reliable source.  All ive ever observed about birch is that it acts much like the cherry and tends to be on the slender side.  The pine grew kinda fast in my opinion, but the cherry grew a huge canopy. Individual experience will vary based on many factors and especially on the particular type of tree.   I havent read about a difference in growth trend with respect to foilage type before.  I'd like to see a source if thats the case. The real two questions at this point for me are how did the path get from Lake Park to Kosciuszko and does it matter that the tree was only 10 to 15 years old at the time when BP may have noticed there is just one birch along that street?   Was it established enough to work into the verse as THE birch?

I keep returning to the idea that "the beating of the world" is a reference to the MECCA arena where the Bucks became NBA World Champions in 1970/71.  The reason I think this is based on following the woman's westward gaze if we project her image on the north corner of the intersection on State and Water where the Cityhall may be viewed with spires set in an equal height perspective.

Here's some info I gathered while looking into the tree comparison.  Things would be easier if the park system had a historical record of each and every tree... hxxp://mdc.mo.gov/landwater-care/homeow ... w-old-tree Looking at that tree width and the car nearby it really must be a good 40 to 50 years old.

erexere wrote:: The reason I am getting into this is that this looks like the only birch in the Kosciuszko Park. actually re-look at your picture there is another birch along the path to the left of this one about 20 yards past the building.

Malted, good eye!  I had scan at the northeast angle for that.  There's bound to be more.  Now I simply must gather more detailed information on the whole park.  Im still wide open on how it's even remotely possible to connect Lake to Kosciuszko. I almost wanted to fit "plan 9" as 9th street for the "at a distance in space"...can't see any thematic reason to associate an old scifi movie to this. Anyways, a work in progress.

Thanks for seeing that other Birch, MF and thanks to Bing Maps I was actually able to distinguish the white birch from an aerial taken in the fall or winter after the leaves dropped.  Previously I thought there was only one birch after viewing from street side and so I thought the line about "passing three" had to apply to something else.  Now that I am past that mistake, I scoured for birch and found just 4, which is the PERFECT NUMBER!  After finding the first, there are three more to pass until reaching the blue mailbox.  Then I believe the "cast in copper" line sends us along Lincoln as we pass a proud tall fifth, the equestrian statue. Here are the aerials of the birch,

Yes those posts indicate gas mains and say do not dig here without calling ######## first.. They are the same as the ones here in california. If you dig in that area without calling its against the law. You call that number and somebody from the gas company comes out and spray paints on the ground the pipe line then you are allowed to dig, they are usually very friendly and helpful.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Yes those posts indicate gas mains and say do not dig here without calling ######## first.. They are the same as the ones here in california. If you dig in that area without calling its against the law. You call that number and somebody from the gas company comes out and spray paints on the ground the pipe line then you are allowed to dig, they are usually very friendly and helpful. WR - this is what I meant the "get permission to dig" might refer to near the church... the site may be near a utility box. BTW, this is in ref to V5.

How do we orient this image?  If you stand at the intersection of State and Water you can face south at cityhall and see the dual spires at equal height and in the same view as image 10.  Now which direction?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: WR - this is what I meant the "get permission to dig"... the site may be near a utility box. This finally makes sense to me.  It's a visual confirmation that you are in the right spot, rather than something peculiar about one dig site.  Many (if not all) of the diggings would benefit from getting permission, especially these days.  Rather than think about one verse pointing to a special park where BP himself had to get permission to bury (which would risk having the location leak out), the casque was buried in a place where anyone can dig (within reason, same as all of the locations).  The bit which is unique is perhaps a sign or symbol or even actual text somewhere, to give you the kind of 'aha!' that you are on the trail once you get there, not a clue to be used too early to figure out where to head.  I like this, I just can't use it.

I was just filtering out which indicators have rotations and why it might be justified.  Given that BP took photos, most images would be presented with non-rotation.  There might be exceptions, park maps aren't always made with North pointing up on the page for instance.  Also, I think I have mixed up to similar looking trees.  Tough to judge from google and bing street views.  Someone will have better luck going there in person. I'm hoping juggling might be an indicator for using a rotation.  Here are 90 degrees rotated left with respect to image10.  The park sign looks like the shapes to the left and right sides of the background of image10.  The cape has a tree-like impression that looks like it has four major trunk limbs. Here's another tree nearby,

I saw this police call box from Milwaukee and I couldn't help but wonder what kind of key went into those big keyholes. examples of keys used to open old police call boxes.  The key in the picture might be an indication of one of these in addition to being part of the Mill-walk-key rebus.

Again, two very close comparisons to the cape's outline of trees,  I think there are at least two different trees being illustrated, one small partial corner where the cape folds and one occupying the greater interior section, These two trees are approx 300 feet from eachother, sounds like a possible case for the 100 paces line, but then the they are more than 100 paces from the Kozy monument which is approx 400 feet from the second tree in this series.  I believe both of these are 'red oaks'.  Also, both trees line up closely with a line drawn from the St. Josephat Basilica and the Tadeus Kosciuszko statue.  A simple geometric motif may be in effect.

Could it be said she is wearing a cowl?

erexere wrote:: Could it be said she is wearing a cowl? VERY interesting.

Its ridiculousness.  I'm never going to known if I'm on the right track or completely deluded.

Key = "in door" Snooker Balls = "pool" Natatorium?

Could it be not a bell but a hoof?

erexere, That is a nice picture of the hoof, but with "Belleview Place" being another street in the immediate Lakepark vicinity, the visual of a bell is more probable, since we had references to several other streets in the verse already. AP

I'm willing to throw all probability out on it's arse at this point.  I'm tired of finding myself wrong whenever I try to argue for or against anything, because that becomes a distracting point of view.  I've only recently become comfortable with the idea that I'll never lay claim to a casque should any number of factors might thwart a recovery.  I just felt that anxiety and desire was a distracting motivation.  I must admit I'm overly creative and jumpy, while it's good for when we are stuck, it's not good when it derails us from the distinct and correct path. It's just a matter of possibilities that are tied together, how strong those links are compared to others, and then what amount of thematic cohesion can be applied. Anyone following my train of thought on image 10/verse 8 should read this update: I think the birch tree factor is nonsense.  Did Preiss just make up the birch trees?  Wasn't there no basis for a birch in the Verse 4 Cleveland location?  Can that then be the case here? I do believe the 92 steps is purposeful in bringing us 3 steps from the top of the Grand Stair only to have us turn around and climb back down to the east entrance of Lake Park.  That doubleback becomes thematic.  The use of "three" is thematic in this verse. The repetitveness of "at a distance" becomes an indication of twice the distance it takes a person to walk in an hour, the unit known as a league.  It doesn't take an hour to walk from Mitchell Hall to and through Lake Park.  This doesn't mean we must walk, but the distance should be the equivalent of walking two hours, i.e. 6 miles.

I focused strongly on three objects in my recent theory which took the hat of the Kosciuszko statue the trunk of the tree in front of Fiesta Garibaldi and the belfry of St. Josaphat.  At the time I believed we entered Kosy Park at the northwest corner and counted birch trees along the western edge.  I think that's wrong since I've been unable to imagine a strong enough link between that corner of the park and the turn off from Mitchell street to the north.  My argument fails to reference the Mitchell Street Bank as I had hoped.  I think I must ignore the shape of the bell in the hand and instead consider it's the indicator of the "southern foot" of Kosciuszko's horse.  The hoof is like the fence in image 5, or the wall in image 4. I'm now considering the following path: 1. Mitchell Hall/Kenwood --> three streets named for Milwaukians --> turn south on Marietta (Artist name for Harpsichord playing woman self portrait) 2. turn east at Locust (faint outline of locust in image) --> Lake Park --> tennis [courts not rackets] (= not noisy = silent) --> Oak Leaf Trail 3. Lincoln Memorial Drive --> Grand Stair --> stop 3 steps short of re-entry to Lake Park and turn back to Lincoln Memorial Drive 4. At the exit 3 sign turn west onto Lincoln Ave --> step on the southeast corner of Kosy Park 5. continue west --> see tree in front of Fiesta Garibaldi --> continue to the south side of Kosciuszko statue Kosciuszko is an educated (man of letters) from a rural village (the country). Kosciuszko is a Brigadier General = 1 star rank.  General has up to 5 stars.  1 of 5 = a fifth.  Star = deserving recognition = proud.  Rank = high = tall. I'm wondering if there's any weight to the thematic element of walking. Walk Beat = an officer's assigned path (on foot) Hoof = to walk

Don't forget Lafayette.

It wasnt very long ago people were completely invested in the Lake Park area.  I liked it also for many compelling reasons.  Its a good case, as is much of what we do around here, of latching on to one idea and carrying it too far while ignoring or suspending attention towards other clues which should be treated equally for lack of proof otherwise. Ive come to the point of view that some stratification of importance or weight changed as we consider the verse.  I like the idea of there being a loose introductory element to the first line, followed by some discretely defined or characteristic clues and then the last lines as being very specific to the purpose of pinpointing the casque. I let go of the Kosciuszko idea completely in order to focus on some possibilities related to the words "at a distance...time/space" and the possibility that an actual arc drawing compass could be a simple tool used with a map to yield a league (unit based on 3 miles distance traveled in one hour of walking).  The circular or radial idea depends entirely on where the decision to place a point of origin.  I referenced the city hall image clue as a good choice and then inspected the options for where an arc may be drawn out at 3 miles distance.  Not far away, at the Plankinton Arcade, the circular stairs of 4x 23 (sum to 92 steps) seemed to offer a better basis for originating the arc.  It makes sense from a linear approach that the setup of this compass method involve the early to middle lines of verse, leaving the latter lines for pinpointing or describing the final details.  I think of the compass on a map as a rough step.  The Kosciuszko Park idea comes into play only at that point, where it fits the refinements better than all the other options, like Mitchell Park or Lake Park.  Its fascinating how every single line of verse can be resolved in a practical or literal way.  I cant say Im absolutely certain about all of it, but some lines just play too nicely with the whole process.  Kosciouszko wrote for harpsichord.  The Reds were the name of the Kosciuszko baseball league.  The Polish idea handles the wonderstone idea in terms of rock tumbling, becoming the polished stone baubles which best gain attention as stones of wonderment. Now that ive abandoned the loose and wild forms of interpretation, this looks incredibly real and concrete.  Each step leads to the next once you start with the right kind of compass, a city map, and happen to discover the mall on Grand ave near the city center.

Not sure anyone posted this.  A recent article on the Milwaukee treasure! hxxp://urbanmilwaukee.com/2013/10/07/milwaukees-secret-treasure/

Nice. Too bad he didn't leave this website for anyone who caught the bug after reading this article. Maybe we should contact newspaper offices in the other cities we are pretty much sure of and stir up some local intrigue.

I always was a fan of the Solomon Juneau statue area for this one. I believe the dig site was at the foot of a tree south of the statue. However, when I went to Milwaukee to check that area I found that the trees were removed and new ones planted. There's a plaque in the ground telling of the new trees. I forget the exact date but after 1983 for sure. I probed the ground but found nothing by the new trees. Just to be complete I probed the area just south of the statue base. My first try hit something about two feet down. So I tried a foot in each direction as well to possibly narrow the size down and found that there's underground concrete about two feet wide all along the base which is what I hit. Then I checked the whole area south of the statue and got nothing. If it was near one of the old trees then I fear that it more than likely dug up in the removal. If this guy has a GPR then it would definitely help if it's still there. The only downside to this area is that it's wide open. There are constant walkers and joggers passing by which made for strange looks while probing. I got permission through a couple emails so it's not impossible to probe areas as this guy stated. I do wish I had checked near the large stone at the south of the park. I saw it and even took pics but didn't get that close. I regret it now because it's in a nice little nook surrounded by tall grass and trees not to mention a bridge which would give nice cover for burying or digging up. I'm not sure though if that's the stone that had the sword in it but I'm gonna look into that area. I never did post all of my pics because there wasn't much that isn't out there already. But here's the stone and also a good shot of the flag pole, both at the southern end of the park.

Deuce, that's a really nice pic of that rock.  It reminds me of the reddish base of the Kozy monument,

I have a photo request for anyone in the Milwaukee area. I would closeups of the objects in red. The manhole cover lookds old and might have a letter on it. Also I suspect we have trees missing so a photo and inspection of the ground right next to it would be in order. If there were once trees, roots or stumps might be left behind. thanks

Letter from wonderstone's hearth?

rook i think those are no dumping markers, not sure how long they have been in use first i remember seeing one was around 98-99 in iowa, some have fish, waves, birds ect.. no chems, car oil, paint pet poo ect. hxxp://www.berntsen.com/Utilities/Plast ... in-Markers i do like the sewer cap idea though, they weigh like 100-150#, and about 2in thick, so they last a long time,ive seen them reused after a walk or street repair

Ok, I have been following the secret for about 8 months now and have scouted a couple of locations in Milwaukee. I also own a copy of the book. I am going to throw out a ideas and see if anyone is still around on this board to help me build on them. Be forewarned, I have a divergent idea about where the treasure is than many others. Lets start with some small stuff... I think that hearth in the last couple of lines is referring to home, not a fireplace. As in the phrase, hearth & home. One interpretation of the letter from wonderstone's hearth is the Large B in the original logo for the Pabst Brewing Company. The B stands for Bavaria. Another interpretation is that there is literally a letter written in another language that corresponds with the country that the magical creatures are from (in this case, probably either German or French). I'll get back to this theory in a minute... The bell on the figures hand is most likely the bell in the bell tower of city hall named after Solomon Juneau, Milwaukee's first mayor. (a probably unrelated aside - It was designed and crafted by the Campbells, who were early pioneers in creating diving chambers and suits near the Great Lakes area during that time.) As a second theory, there are bells on the control towers of the bridges that run over the river. I also think that there is a correlation between the circular "clock face" of the objects the juggler is juggling and the references to time in the verse "At a distance in time". This might take the form of a clock at the final destination. The two red dots also remind me of the 2 large red ladybugs on the ladybug club building downtown, but I am not sure I know how this relates. Likewise, I think there is a strong correlation between These Depictions of Pere Marquette and the female figure in the painting: hxxp://www.pmlodge.net/wp-content/uploads/2013/06/Pere_Marquette.jpg Notice how the stance and dress of the figure is similar: Also, there are really only 3-4 structures in Milwaukee that refer to the Mitchel's. The first is Mitchel hall at UWM, but since that is SO far from most of the other clues, I don't think that it makes sense. The same can be said about the domes, and Mitchel's bank on historic Mitchel street. So the only building that makes sense is the Wisconsin club, Mitchel's old 3 story home where he lived with his wife and daughter. Here are a few collected ideas from others that I find possible: "I'm pretty sure 'cast in copper' doesn't mean Lincoln, it refers to our courthouse downtown like on the back of the penny. I think the numbers just after that may refer to the steps of the courthouse as well." "There are a total of 200 steps from the street to the top of City Hall. 92 steps takes you to the landing at a window where you can see the harp at the top of the Pabst Theater. I understand the difference between a harp and harpsichord but did Byron Preiss? Did he say it to throw people off the trail?" ______________________________________________ So how does this all play out in terms of a workable theory? Well Remember that statue of old Pere Marquette I showed before. It's in Pere Marquette Park. only a few short blocks from the wisconsin club and across the street from the courthouse (with a small park separating them). It has a view of the city hall that matches the image (if it weren't for the Milwaukee Center, which was completed in 1988). Maybe this is what the rock structure around the base of city hall was? The start of construction? Also, the sculpture has a backdrop that includes 4 trees and a fifth that is a birch in the form of a canoe (this is what native american canoes where covered with to make them waterproof). There are also 4 birches in the park as well. The area around the statue has no grass, only rocks and soil. It would be easy to dig up and put back without disturbing grass. And here is the kicker... there are two plaques in front of Pere, one in English and the other in French. At the base of the french plaque is where I think the fairy Casque is at. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Pere+Marquette+Park/@43.042271,-87.913714,2a,90y,90t/data=!3m5!1e2!3m3!1s29163722!2e1!3e10!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0x51f9672e8c9b98de!6m1!1e1?hl=en I could really use some 1980's photos of the downtown area to see if I can fit in a few more of the clues, but I feel like this is a place few have tried. How would people proceed in terms of probing the area... where does one get a metal probe? Let me know what you think...

Oh, I forgot to mention that there is an old historic clock in front of the Milwaukee Historical Society not 100 feet away. I Also found this timeline interesting (French, and Native Americans where the earliest settlers? The bridge wars? And the Historical Society used to be 2nd national bank, one of the only banks that survived the depression, thanks to the breweries)... hxxp://www.milwaukeehistory.net/educati ... -timeline/ _________________________________________________________ In an unrelated theory, this plaque is up in juneau park milwaukee near and old cabin (mill stone?) hxxp://1.bp.blogspot.com/-EthtTkedaho/UE1PQxyY4OI/AAAAAAAAFcQ/_lA-Che01PM/s1600/IMG_8774.JPG

Some nice ideas you got there. I probed around Milwaukee a bit. Mostly Juneau Park. You need to get a hold of the parks director. I emailed her and she said I could probe as long as it didn't interfere with the daily park function. May be someone different depending on the park but they know about the hunt and are pretty nice as long as you just don't dig up everywhere. They said probing is fine. Just tell them when and where. As far as a probe, I ordered one online. Couldn't find anything at any stores.

@atomicleprechaun, really cool ideas. Can you share more on how you navigate the entire verse? Have you verifies the dates of each of your resources? What candidates do you have in mind in terms of pointing to a specific spot? Also, what alternatives are you interested in if your current track doesnt pan out?

Duece - Thanks for the info about the probes! Do you have the Park Director's E-mail address? erexere - I went ahead and talked to the folk's down at the Milwaukee Historical Society... They helped me out with some documents on dates... Sadly, seems the statue was stored in 1965 and not replaced by the bronze version in Pere Marquette till 1987. So there goes my first idea... BUT.... I did walk around a little more and decided to go check out the Wisconsin Club, the old Mitchel house. And what did I find around back? https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywagphoto/14643806743/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywagphoto/14437257378/ Yeah... that's the certianly the texture around the woman's neck. So I guess we have a confirmed starting place!!! This also got me thinking... The Wisconsin Club is right across from the Courthouse, (cast in copper) - so I started snooping around there and I found out there is a park called the India-America Friendship Park behind the courthouse. I did some googling for india imagry that might connect to the juggler when I got home and landed on this... Some striking similarities. Might be worth an e-mail to the artist? https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywagphoto/14437480867/ Could be another lead - anyone else have anything to say about this? Let me know, let's find this thing!

I have had a look at Pere Marquette park on bing maps, and it looks like there maybe a culvert under the bridge. but the 100 paces south east is impossible unless it means from the statue. However, it is tempting to visualise an almost identical location to the Chicago location which was also below a bridge. Also the view of the City Hall matches. It has harp-case streetlights! hxxp://binged.it/1nlzttE

Found these on the bridge next to Pere park. Not sure how long they've been there but they look old. The bell is a nice match but not sure on the ball. It's right next to the bell so I thought I would show it too.

I never noticed the bell. Good find. You have reminded me of my use of the hands and ball matching the county outline. Is the position of the jewel in the same place on this overlaid map?

wk, I see what you're doing, but I don't see the intention of an overlay through you're example. I don't want to sound like I'm bashing you're attempt, it's definitely the kind of idea that I think can be integrated into this puzzle. I recall other members have weighed in on the idea of an overlay and discounted it mainly for the the reason that Chicago and Cleveland didn't strongly exhibit such a concept. A road segment, or a state shape have been the only map-type shapes utilized so far as we know. If you don't mind, can you remind us of any other map segment matches? I figure you've been more perceptive of those possibilities. Thanks.

If you click on the linked picture it takes you to my other findings that I have posted already. I disagree with you about Chicago as the castle is very clearly an outline of Illinois. .. and the windmill is Evanston precinct. I have a couple of Cleveland attempts but have not posted them yet. My favourite discoveries are Boston and Montreal.

I should have said Cook County and not Illinois. Outlines of these smaller counties or precincts are on Wikipedia or you can type the name into Google Maps and it shows a pink outline.

I apologize, but some of this info may be a bit of a re-post from one a few days ago that didn't go up until I contacted Mark. Everything seems to be working now, but I wanted all of my thoughts in one place so no-one missed anything. I have included a link to a flickr album that has images that relate to our hunt on it. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywagphoto/sets/72157645709486983/ I think wk actually has a point about overlays. I have looked at the artwork for this casque extensively and being an artist myself have seen a lot of choices that were made in terms of lines and angles that are very purposeful and not by accident. I have also experimented with overlays with some limited success, but I am nearly certain that there is a map hidden in the image in one form or another. I am most curious as to why certain areas are glowing blue and others are not. Also, I noticed in the bing maps photo that the historical society from the top looks an awful lot like a harpsichord (there is an image of one up on flickr for comparison, though I am not sure if this has any significance) Also, after checking with the Milwaukee historical society, I am sad to report that the Pere Marquette statue was originally in Ziegler Park and was removed in the 1960's cast in bronze and not replaced in Pere Marquette Park until 1987, so the statue at least has nothing to do with our search. However while out jaunting around I also paid a visit to the Wisconsin club and made a rather exciting find. The bricks on the back of the structure create a pattern that matches the woman's gold neckline exactly (See flickr). So I think this points pretty specifically to the old Mitchel household for the first part of the verse as I said before. Likewise, The park across the street from the Wisconsin club, behind the courthouse is called the India-America friendship park (which normally I would have paid no mind to), but when I googled after getting home I found a painting of an Indian female juggler clad in blue with red balls that nearly matches the image from the book, only it is inverted (see flickr). One the flickr page I have also included images that show the "grand staircase" at the lakefront changing significantly over the years (hence having a changed number of steps) and an image of the stairs in the arcade of the grand ave mall (which I have no idea how many steps it has. I counted city halls steps the other day and the ones that were publicly accessible counted 203 I believe - so no match there. I have yet to count the courthouse steps. Comments?

I look forward to looking over your flickr pics! I have a feeling Native American tie-ins will play a role in some of these puzzles. Lots of step counting has been reported by at least half a dozen serious seekers. Have you been in contact with any other local seekers or are you doing all solo? There were some respectable attempts to comb the city for clues by a few users at SomethingAwful. I recall crashdome had some great results. He verified the exact count of young birch trees in Kosciuszco Park on the west side but then failed to comment on the conclusion that the number of birch trees may be four and not five. If we look at the verse in an unassuming way, the first young birch, followed by three more staying on the west side, and then seeing a letter from the country on a proud tall fifth, we may conclude that it isnt certain that the fifth thing is a fifth because its a birch or if its some other kind of "fifth". The tall decorated statue of the military hero Thaddeus Kosciuszko, also whom was known for having wrote a piece of harpsichord music, and had the rank of 1-star General (a person may have up to 5-stars). I've spouted this idea numerous times, but I havent been able to convince anyone that 1 of 5 things may also be called a "fifth". I explored this potential for sometime without knowing exactly how many birches existed in the park, how old those trees might be, whether the statue was always in that spot, and most significantly how could we end up nearly 3 miles from the city hall and Wisconsin Club area where the immediate visual clues seem most significant. I adapted my theory by using a draft compass to draw an arc-line or "passing a compass" based on centering at a set of four stairs in counting 23 each (4x23=92)in a circle around a fountain with the distance set to a league (old world distance measure of about 3 miles, the distance a person walks in one hour: at a distance in time). I can go on. Ive never seen a response to my theory other than an "I dont think so," folowed by lurker silence. If there are simple factual details to investigate as a precursor to building a valid approach then I see no reason to dismiss Kosciuszko. Are the trees old enough to have been "young" in 1982? Yes. Are there 4 followed by a 1-star General statue? Yes. Is there a logical reason to use an actual compass? Yes. Etc.

That juggler pic is intriguing. I wonder if JJP was inspired by it? In case it matters, I did a little research and found that it was painted by Raja Ravi Varma (1848-1906).

forest_blight - I also did the same research, and I think you are right... it may have been used as a visual source for the painting. does anyone have JPP's e-mail address? We could write and ask him. erexere - the flickr pics are up, just click on the link. Also the park is the India-America Friendship park (rather than native american Indian), and yes I am working solo on this project, but I wouldn't be apposed to meeting up with some people and conspiring in person to find the Casque. Also, I have read many of your theory's while combing the boards, and I think some of them could be on to something, I am simply building my own theory out of pieces of others work for now. In fact your post of the juggler book-cover lead me to search for the Indian girl painting that I found recently. ------------------------------- ***More importantly though - I think that the brick texture on the Wisconsin club points directly to it as a starting point. I think it needs to be assumed that we work from there and orient the rest of the clues accordingly. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywagphoto/14437257378/in/set-72157645709486983

Nice pics! I see it. Ah, India India... Ive forgotten if that Robert Silverberg cover checked out as existing pre1982. I'm not really inclined to thi k this puzzle draws inspiration from it. I think the juggling pattern and the locust buddy up to a circle theme. It requires smoothing out the wrinkle between he word locust and locus, as in the center point of an arc is the locus. Little things like that make me think of the tricks that fairies play.

Don't know how I missed this, but MacArther Square, across the street from the old Mitchel house (Wisconsin Club) is named after world war 2 general Douglas MacArther. View the 3 stories of Mitchel As you walk the beating of the world I think I missed it because the statue of MacArther has since been moved, but the plaque on the back used to read... MacArthur, his father General Arthur MacArthur, and his grandfather judge Arthur McArthur, were all residents of Milwaukee. Here is the Wiki on the statue: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Douglas_MacArthur_(Dean) At a distance in time from 3 who lived here Also, there is of course the MacArther Genius Grant that exists, which started in 1981 And the song MacArther Park - which features the harpsichord and was recorded in 1968 and then re-popularized in 1978 by Donna Summers. It talks about MacArther Park in LA, so maybe this is the space? I know I am reaching... Here is the Wiki: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MacArthur_Park_(song) At a distance in space, from woman with harpsichord Silently Playing https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPMpeNDIGdk&feature=kp

At least you know when you're ideas are reaching...took me a long time to let some of my far fetched ideas go. I'm still hoping there's some cool popular music connection to how Byron Preiss put his puzzles together. I tried to fit the song Blackbird from the Beatles' White album to verse 11, "where white is in color," where black may be considered a color, because I had an historic reference connected to it on the OBX coast. I also thought Stairway to Heaven applied to something at one point but I won't get into that. Donna Summers? who knows, if he intended to make a sly reference to MacArthur, then sure, just explain how Donna Summer's or a strongish lyrics connection is represented in the Pic/Verse. I just had a thought about "beating of the world". I've thought about several ideas tossed around this forum, anything from beating to do with "winning", "drumming", "the heart", "wings", "audio speakers", "kitchen mixers", and the kneading of dough from an old Germanic word origin for the word "walk" and the idea of punching dough. Nothing's ever felt quite right except Kenwood St. (Kenwood, the kitchen mixer company from Woking, England) near Lake Park was rather compelling. Anyway, my idea just now involves thinking of beating something flat, so this could have something to do with thinking the world as flat, the sentence then would be "As you walk the flat disc area," or some road named after someone who was directly involved with the flat earth notion, such as Columbus or any early ocean explorer. Just a thought, no idea where that connects in Milwaukee.

atomicleprechaun wrote:: I have included a link to a flickr album that has images that relate to our hunt on it. https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywagphoto/sets/72157645709486983/ I am most curious as to why certain areas are glowing blue and others are not. Lots of good stuff here, atomicleprechaun. As far as the glowing, that just seems to be a technique that Palencar uses in his work judging by the illustrations on his website hxxp://www.johnjudepalencar.com/ . I'm not saying that he didn't use some sort of pattern to hide clues, but it isn't uncommon in his work beyond The Secret. Regarding the pattern in the bricks, this is the parking garage on E Wells between Cathedral Square and the Pabst Theater: I've always liked this one: Laureate , Just across the river from Pere Marquette Park.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Laureate , Just across the river from Pere Marquette Park. Right next to the huge Usinger's (pronounced You-zingers) sign and building, an 1880 sausage factory run by the German Immigrant and his family thereafter... Could that be the "You'll see" and the "letter from wonderstone's hearth"

Deuce wrote:: Found these on the bridge next to Pere park. Not sure how long they've been there but they look old. The bell is a nice match but not sure on the ball. It's right next to the bell so I thought I would show it too. Just to put into perspective the location of the Laureate sculpture, even though it doesn't sync 100% with the particular culvert you pointed out: I have no idea how time has treated this area, but the statue itself is from 1969. Today, it seems that including the patch containing Laureate, there are are 5 little patches of grass there appearing to each have their own tree. I can't see how many and what type of trees those are, but using this image, it is five patches of grass for 5 trees, or 4 trees and the sculpture. Staying West at that point just means following along the river in a southeasterly direction. The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits.

Re: Pere Marquette, this may have been suggested already...the beating of the world...Old World 3rd St runs alongside. World beaten into 3rd place...? Or maybe a reference to something that used to be there. (Just a random thought.) This 1966 newspaper article discusses a collection called "Masterpieces from Montreal" which included "Woman with harpsichord", the first old master to be purchased by the Art Association of Montreal. But I can't find anything tying the exhibition or corresponding book to Milwaukee. hxxp://www.amazon.com/Masterpieces-Mont ... B000H4MAWU

Just read an article about the area. North Old World 3rd Street use to be called just North 3rd Street. "Old World" wasn't added until 1984.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: I've always liked this one: Laureate , Just across the river from Pere Marquette Park. Hirudiniforme wrote:: Right next to the huge Usinger's (pronounced You-zingers) sign and building, an 1880 sausage factory run by the German Immigrant and his family thereafter... Could that be the "You'll see" and the "letter from wonderstone's hearth" Merlot Brougham & Hirudiniforme - Thank you very much, your posts have been incredibly helpful! I can totally see the Laureate sculpture being part of this. Also, I never considered the Usingers angle, but your could have something there! I went out on another foot patrol of the area and learned a few more things. You can see photos of all of these things on my flickr page: https://www.flickr.com/photos/scallywag ... 709486983/ - SS Core - or the big ball next to the bridge is from 2006. - There are actually 4 Bells on one each of the structures on the four corners of the bridge. - There is also a bell on a manhole cover in the middle of Pere Marquette Park. - Likewise, not far away is the Wisconsin Bell Telephone building. - The Plankinton Arcade stairs in the Grande Ave Mall (which used to be the location of the Plankinton House Hotel), have exactly 92 steps . - There is a plaque near the stairs designates that MacArthur and his family lived at the Plankinton House Hotel before and after the war (3 who live here). - There is also a compass around the pool at the bottom of the stairs. - The Pabst Theater has the nickname of "the jewel Box" - There are small metal plaques embedded into the ground around the gazebo in Pere Marquette Park that look like water waves. I have no info on when these went in (anyone know anything about this?) - Red Arrow Park was named after a group of WWI combatants. (not sure what year Red Arrow was remodeled or what it looked like before - does anyone have anything on this?) I have compiled this all into a map that I have also put on the flickr page. Check it out. One theory that I have is that the different elements from the image (millstone, jewel, etc) might line up with specific landmarks on the map, but I haven't had much luck as of yet with getting it to work (one example on flickr). ***Also, would someone who lives in Milwaukee be willing to lend me a probe and/or go probing with me?***

Deuce wrote:: I always was a fan of the Solomon Juneau statue area for this one. I believe the dig site was at the foot of a tree south of the statue. However, when I went to Milwaukee to check that area I found that the trees were removed and new ones planted. There's a plaque in the ground telling of the new trees. I forget the exact date but after 1983 for sure. I probed the ground but found nothing by the new trees. Just to be complete I probed the area just south of the statue base. My first try hit something about two feet down. So I tried a foot in each direction as well to possibly narrow the size down and found that there's underground concrete about two feet wide all along the base which is what I hit. Then I checked the whole area south of the statue and got nothing. Has anyone tried the front and rear of the statue and not just south of it? "At its southern foot, the treasure waits". If "it" is the Juneau statue, could the casque be adjacent to the southern foot of Juneau himself as depicted by the statue? This would be Juneau's left foot, as I understand the orientation of the statue. Seems like a silly suggestion, but I think everyone would hate themselves if we were so very close and didn't try the literal interpretation of "at its southern foot".

Hey folks! I'm new to the board but have been following along at the pbworks site and doing my own searching. I am in Madison but am looking to plan some trips out to do some footwork myself. atomicleprechaun, let me know if you have found a probe. I am looking to get one and would gladly come out to look around some more. I'm still getting up to speed with everything but hope I can be able to lend a hand.

otteriffic wrote:: atomicleprechaun, let me know if you have found a probe. I am looking to get one and would gladly come out to look around some more. I'm still getting up to speed with everything but hope I can be able to lend a hand. otteriffic, I did in fact get a probe and we are going to go try our first location tonight! Let me know when you plan to come up and we can set up a meet to swap some intel! Feel free to shoot me a pm!

Goodluck! Is there any theory on why there are 7 objects being juggled? 7th street?

erexere wrote:: Goodluck! Is there any theory on why there are 7 objects being juggled? 7th street? Do you mean besides the Milwaukee rebus?

I mean, seven items in all. All this talk about the count of moons in P1 got me thinking about this. Aside from the rebus I've seen talk of the red balls, but I don't recall anything prominent about the number of all objects. If this were something like the 5 warts of P5, thought to be a month number, then P10 should be July and birthstone Ruby...which is clearly not the case. I jumped to the thought of 7th street which I like for one of the boundaries to Kosciuszko Park, but I'd like to know if there were any other preferable interpretations using the 7 count.

My official thoughts on Soil Probes, is that they suck and are useless... I wasn't even able push mine down a foot, let alone the 3 feet it would take to verify a location. So, either I have to go ahead and dig, or we need to secure a ground penetrating radar machine. Frustration!

atomicleprechaun, ummm yeah, they suck. GPR is too spendy. I find the best portable alternative that worked for me is an 18v Lith-ion powered Ryobi impact driver or drill using a 3/8" x 48" cable drill bit. You'll be amazed at how well it might work. I linked a short vid clip to the discussion on tools for the job just yesterday.

erexere wrote:: I mean, seven items in all. All this talk about the count of moons in P1 got me thinking about this. Aside from the rebus I've seen talk of the red balls, but I don't recall anything prominent about the number of all objects. If this were something like the 5 warts of P5, thought to be a month number, then P10 should be July and birthstone Ruby...which is clearly not the case. I jumped to the thought of 7th street which I like for one of the boundaries to Kosciuszko Park, but I'd like to know if there were any other preferable interpretations using the 7 count. How about the bell in her right hand?

Is it a bell, or is it a horse hoof?

erexere wrote:: Is there any theory on why there are 7 objects being juggled? 7th street? 3 objects for "Mill-Walk-Key" 1 object for the birthflower 1 object for the birthstone 2 objects to denote month = February Nothing more than that.

I'm going to head out this weekend to milwaukee. Gonna trace through the top two locations that people are looking at, Lake Park and Pere Marquette Park. Gonna try to get a probe before I head down and should hopefully have my new copy of the book by the time i go (yay ebay) I think if we can confirm some of the other verses, we will have an easier time confirming or denying some of the interpretations of the later verses.

Thanks f_b. I'm concerned with the flower. It's not a complete flower, just the bloom. This is going to be a forced or playful idea as I came across the usage of the word bloom as it could apply to an algal or plankton bloom. Planktos in Greek means "wanderer/drifter", which might be applicable to our juggler if we imagine she belongs to a traveling troupe or circus. Maybe a hint to look more closely at Plankington, the street or the Arcade?

went down to Milwaukee this weekend... got some pictures and think i may have found some bits that would make atomicleprechaun happy. Will post the pics tomorrow as soon as i do some more research and confirm a few things.

otteriffic wrote:: went down to Milwaukee this weekend... got some pictures and think i may have found some bits that would make atomicleprechaun happy. Will post the pics tomorrow as soon as i do some more research and confirm a few things. Excellent, What have you found Otteriffic? I am intrigued.

I posted in the verse 8 thread because it was mor an interpretation of the verse than the image... viewtopic.php?f=32&t=727&start=735#p128256

Remember how Cleveland apparently used the window of the house across the street from the columns in the image, perhaps we see the same thing in this image:

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Remember how Cleveland apparently used the window of the house across the street from the columns in the image, perhaps we see the same thing in this image: I missed that, which part of the image?

maltedfalcon wrote:: I missed that, which part of the image? This is the house DIRECTLY across from the columns.

I like also the use of a feature that covers our heads. Nice find 421.

Ay, remember Palencar saying there was something about the hat, but never seen that.

We never saw it until I found the Google Streetview of the Greek columns. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=755&p=127190#p127190

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Ay, remember Palencar saying there was something about the hat, but never seen that. It's the post immediately subsequent the one wk just linked to. Your mention of Palencar and the hat back then made me want to figure out what it was... I didn't have to look far Knowing something is a clue and searching for it is so much different that trying to find what might be clues and search for them. Anyhow... do you know where that window is that I posted for the Milwaukee image?

hxxp://goo.gl/maps/l8SH0

Hirudiniforme wrote:: The link you create will lead the user to google maps with a view of exactly what was in your screen when you created the link: [/img] 1. click the create link button once your view is where you want it. 2. create a short url by checking the box, then copy and paste it where ever. ... wk wrote:: hxxp://goo.gl/maps/l8SH0 to LOL, wk... how far you have come!! You are good!

I wonder if the background of the image being so shaded is the artists way of saying it's either "dark" or "limited visibility" due to something like rain. That the woman is wearing a hood and cloak might also imply rain. The line "beating of the world" could be interpreted as "rain drops (beating down) on the ground (world)". The implication that follows the premise of "as you walk" can easily be imagined as a street. Therefore, streets like those named Water or Lake might be a good conclusion. What's the best Mitchell reference to Water St., Lake St., or S. Lake Shore Dr.?

wk wrote:: hxxp://goo.gl/maps/l8SH0 well now, this is interesting: hxxp://goo.gl/maps/zYxyQ - You won't find another one of those "mill stones" on any trees nearby, including across the street. And... it's near a woman with harpsichord...

hmmm, I was pretty sure that that feature of the image was exactly matched to a wall fountain. I would have to go back and look. The window is close, but it is for-shortened in the google map image. I think this is a co-incidence.

Every time I come back to this image it bugs me how little we know. I'm trying to re-set my knowledge and drop a lot of assumptions about these puzzles - this is one where we have absolutely no confirmed visual matches except for Milwaukee city hall, correct?

somebody found a really nice image of the flower petal I think. also the solomon juno statue

The bell in the hand is pretty good too. I never bought into the bizarre locust stuff...always looked like a bridge to me. Most of them only have one really convincing match. Some don't have even that.

Hmmm what's the bell in hand? Does anyone have any street maps from the 80s in this area? I have a weird theory I want to look over. It's Nothing earth shattering just a desperate hope to match "beating of the world."

Xieish wrote:: For what it's worth I've never had particularly good discussion on this board, I don't have tons of posts, but nobody had ever helped me with my theories. Some people are helpful via PM, but many are non responsive or rude. I've posted things and shown up to see evidence of prodding/digging. I've always assumed that we all keep our most promising theories either close to the vest, or in small groups. I think it's a bit haughty to come out here and pretend like this place is a magical fairyland of socialism. Why would I post my theory if I didn't need feedback on it? Did my solve not take work as well? Does telling me how much work you did diminish mine? I want a casque on my mantel, that's my Only goal. Xieish wrote:: Hmmm what's the bell in hand? Does anyone have any street maps from the 80s in this area? Let's see. First you post this on the Image 12 thread: Then you post this: Based on these statements, I do not see why we should help you whatsoever. You do not seem willing to share any of your thoughts, correct? Are you hoping that this is a "magical fairyland of socialism" after all?

Just because nobody helped me with solving 12 doesn't mean I'm not working together on 10. But you guys have quite the sense of entitlement "I know we didn't help you at all with 12, but we demand the answers." I'm happy to work with people: nobody has been willing to work with me in the past. Don't pin this on me. I've always been willing to work with people in Boston or elsewhere. Anything I find on Milwaukee I'm happy to share, since we know diddly poop about it. If you aren't in the "inner circle" here your ideas are cast aside for the same 9 theories people have been re-hashing since 2002. You have to understand how entitled you sound about 12. I don't owe you anything. We are not friends, unless you want to be (I'm actually quite decent!). I, like you, am free to keep certain things close to the vest. For me it's 12. That has nothing to do with the rest of the casques. Again: From my POV you are asking for the solution to 12, not a theory. You are basically asking me to share my hard work and give it away on a silver platter. If it was a theory I had questions about or needed help with, of course I'd share and look for input. As I have yet to explore the site for myself, I keep it close.

Xieish wrote:: what's the bell in hand? This is the hand... ...and this is the Solomon Juneau bell in City Hall. hxxp://city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/ ... easure.pdf

Brilliant, thanks so much. The more I research about this area the more I realize it may have changed more than all other 11 areas combined. Statues moved, parks built, destroyed, parks that have monuments that get moved or removed over time, especially downtown (which I think we have a lot of evidence pointing toward)... I think Preiss' assessment that local people will have an easier time solving them is double/triple appropriate in this case.

Based on percentage of that fragment to the bell as a whole, I think its highly subjective. Once it was confirmed by locals on site at Kosciuszco Park in Milwaukee that there were exactly 1 young birch followed by three more on the west side as you take the northwest corner to the southwest corner and the stand at the "fifth" or 1-of-5 star rank officer statue, it is also a perfect and more substantial percentage match to the horse's hoof. I think its far more realistic to consider visual objects ONLY if they are discovered along a direct line by line path of interpretation. The Solomon Juneau bell is still a satellite notion with no strong indication of how one begins and ends that particular journey or how the small fragment is to be utilized. What, are we to liken the subtle hidden image in the hand to the fence shape used in Chicago's image? Come on...

I agree with that.

not sure what this does, or dosent do to lake park, as a casque site would that mean you couldnt walk on the lighthouse grounds North Point Lighthouse was automated in 1943, but Coast Guard personnel continued to live at the station until 1994 , when the fourth-order lens was removed from the tower and the station was discontinued. The lighthouse and keeper’s dwelling, which had been placed on the National Register of Historic Places in 1984, were leased to Water Tower Preservation Fund Inc. in 1999, and fundraising efforts were launched to restore the structures. North Point Lighthouse Friends, Inc. was incorporated on January 15, 2002 to focus on restoring the lighthouse and obtained $980,000 in Transportation Enhancement Funding that year to help with restoration costs. In 2003, the lighthouse was transferred to Milwaukee County, who then leased the property to North Point Lighthouse Friends. Restoration of the tower was completed in 2006, and the dwelling was restored the following year. The Fresnel lens removed from the tower in 1994 was returned to the station on May 20, 2009 and now revolves in a display case in the keeper’s dwelling. hxxp://www.lighthousefriends.com/light.asp?ID=245

erexere wrote:: I think its far more realistic to consider visual objects ONLY if they are discovered along a direct line by line path of interpretation. Not sure what you mean...NO has several great matches with no obvious trail between them or specific correspondences in the verse. I think the juggler is a great match for Juneau, and the independent observation that the bell in his hand resembles the noted Juneau bell in City Hall (itself an indisputable match) seems like a nice tie-in to me.

I'm far from the expert on Image 10 but Lake Park has always seemed a bit forced to me. The big blow in that one is that the lighthouse was added to the register of historic places in '84 - meaning that it may have been buried when it could still be dug. Hopefully it's not there! What are the direct image matches in NO? I mean direct "Preiss took a polaroid of this object" images?

Xieish wrote:: What are the direct image matches in NO? Preservation, definite. Armstrong very likely. Joan, McDonogh and City Park daffodils likely.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: This is the hand... ...and this is the Solomon Juneau bell in City Hall. hxxp://city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibrary/ ... easure.pdf Let us not forget too that the bell rings in the note of G. "Letter from the country..."? And with the music scale in mind the "fifth" note of scale is Sol. Short for Solomon.

And as White Rabbit pointed out many times he is also a Leo.

Also, to all those who are reading this , not contributing, and digging holes in parks at night without replacing the dirt or sod (YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE)...consider this... you are going to draw negative attention to what we are trying to do. If you aren't going to obtain permission and go rogue...at least put the dirt and sod back so the whole city doesn't put a clamp on people digging and send patrols out to the parks at night costing all of us taxpayers money that desperately needs to be put into fixing the city streets. Thank you.

I thought someone was doing a bunch of digging at one of the areas I was searching. I thought it was gophers but the patches of dirt were later identified as mole activity, the mounds were flattened by groundskeepers.

Xieish wrote:: I think it's a bit haughty to come out here and pretend like this place is a magical fairyland of socialism. I totally get what you are saying. There are some rotten elements who might decide to spoil the game for everyone. But it is worth remembering that treating this forum like a magical fairyland of socialism led directly to finding casque #2. Teamwork and cooperation is what did it. The forum is a place to share information, and if that leads to a casque, then more power to you. But I do hope you document the discovery and share it with us here if you find one. Play fair, be a decent person, and everyone here will toast your success.

I'm willing to eat crow and say that I was being a bit of an a-hole this weekend. *shrug* It had less to do with this board and more to do with real life, not that that's a real excuse. I stand by a lot of what I said, wish I said it in a better way, but I'm a big enough person to suck it up and apologize. Anyway I've slept on it a few nights and people are 100% right, without a casque it's dumb to even give up on trying to improve your own theory. Constant falsification is the way I try to solve these puzzles, and it's dumb to stop working on it and say "IT'S GONE" because even if I were right... I can't prove it for real real. I have a theory though and I'm asking for help with it (and also understand if I've alienated people toward not helping, that's my own bed to lie in): Do people believe that the BIG image in each picture, not individual image matches, but the big over-arching picture, is the start location, or the treasure ground? FWIW I don't believe that the pillars in Image 4 are the BIG PICTURE, they're the "fence and fixture" of Image 4, the thing you dig right in front of and can see from the treasure ground. The actual planter wall is not dominant in the image, and are also not really hidden (as are the Fence & Fixture, they're small but not hidden the way a lot of our other images are). Because I have a theory about the start of this puzzle, and it relies on a potential image match. If I'm right about it, it also involves a long arm extending over an often-suggested slender path.

Its hard to say. I think there is a main feature and symbolic message in every pic. The castle and/or giant being the largest elements of image 5 couldve also served a primary role. Im still evaluating the "bristle" word theory. Image 4's faint wall sketch in the interior of the wall above the columns is strong, but the centaur standing on top of it all seems a strong indication of climbing up to dig the casque so its very possible the others do something similar. Here we have a towering building in the distance in an overcast sky. A juggler performing and looking tbrough the hole of a rounded stone. That in itself says "in the distance" and objects being tossed are all about the same separation in timing and distance along an arc...seems to me a good chance we look at a map and identify some roughly equidistant landmarks and see if we can "catch" the next right spot in the landscape.

Page 11 has a paragraph that seems to fit several items related to my theory about a boot in Milwaukee. Ruddy Alf followed by reindeer hide boots. Does Ruddy Alf sound like Rudolph to anyone else? Im considering a view of Kosciuszco's boot on the equestrian statue from 9th street. Rudolph was the 9th reindeer? Also a deer may be called a buck...Milwaukee Bucks? Suspicious.

topo map No one on this forum seems to have mentioned the contour lines on this topo map of Lake Park except for their use in counting the 92 steps. hxxp://bit.ly/1u1lVGn This view of Lake Park bears a remarkable likeness to the folds on her robe and cloak. I think the dent in the cloak marks the location of a bridge at the top of the 92 steps. Previously, I downloaded a huge 30Mb detailed map of Milwaukee from USGS which cut of the piece of land containing Lake Park (shown by a vertical black line on the topo map). Then I had to download another huge 12Mb map east of that one and guess what, it contained 99% pale blue water of Lake Michigan. (6069)

Another visual clue is gone! Many important trees along LMD have either been cut down or have just fallen. The 4-trunk tree (which had been half cut down earlier) is now completely gone!!!! It was my opinion that it was the 4-trunk tree pictured under the juggler's cape. Now, the "Girl Scout Tree", the 4-trunk tree and two of the "pass 3" trees used to find the 2006-dig site are completely gone... We will need more old photos to find this casque!

I think the City Hall perspective image is an instruction to find the spot where that picture is taken so the spires are level and clock tower is to the right. Call this point A, the origin of a line on a map, liken it to the Sun in a map of our solar system. Plankington rotunda, point B, likens to the position of planet Mercury (Hg = H.G. Wells). The casque is near some place, point C, which is related to the 7 juggled objects as a way of suggesting 7 units of distance based on how far away Point A and B are spanned on a map. Take a compass and fix it to that AB distance, walk the compass to the spot by taking 7 steps.

I have a new thought... has anyone looked around here? It's right next to the Grand Staircase, and you can either take that or the steps along the path on the other side of Ravine St. to get to the top (i.e., climb or ascend)... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0687431 ... PYa63w!2e0 It's on the corner of Lincoln and Oak Leaf... and has the Lake Park park sign shape and Locust Street right there... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0688148 ... qnilJA!2e0 And right next to that the millstone shape see through the Locust sign... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0688277 ... pj4WHQ!2e0 The bridge ahead is the only one of five in the Park not made by Sanne, and it has about 92 steps leading up to the "red balls" on opposite sides... https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0690046 ... iaFltQ!2e0 Nice tall tree being one of the five-trunked tree, eh? https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0690677 ... 6QAmfw!2e0

I feel that darn millstone has a second significance somehow; maybe once it was the site confirmer. (Random thought; sawn-off trunk...? Is that what the thing in your pic is, or is that stone or something...?)

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I feel that darn millstone has a second significance somehow; maybe once it was the site confirmer. (Random thought; sawn-off trunk...? Is that what the thing in your pic is, or is that stone or something...?) It's concrete and directly across from the "key" that is the Grand Staircase, and it has the "two balls" that is the bridge between the two. The bridge has approximately 92 steps leading through the woods along Ravine Road up to it from this "millstone." https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0685555 ... a=!3m1!1e3 Read the verse like this, with the bold being the general area clues: View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world At a distance in time From three who lived there At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing Step on nature Cast in copper Ascend the 92 steps After climbing the grand 200 Pass the compass and reach The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. If you read it like this, you climb the 92 steps AFTER exploring the rest of the park and being stranded at a Girl Scouts sign. You walk around in the area and find the "millstone," then you "ascend the 92 steps" and find a five-trunked tree (with one EXTREMELY tall trunk in the group), which is on the southern foot of the only one-of-five bridges created by Ferry in the park (the others all created by SANNE). PS - I don't necessarily believe this to be true, but I thought I'd throw it out there as it seemed plausible and posed a new connection for the elements in the picture.

Unknown: PS - I don't necessarily believe this to be true, but I thought I'd throw it out there as it seemed plausible and posed a new connection for the elements in the picture. Thinking... As you all know by now, (and even though I say it doesn't) that inability to tie the "after climbing the grand 200" clue into the narrative does, in fact, bother me. It just seems so out of place. But what if we read the clue this way: "after climbing the grand 200, ascend the 92 steps" (in this case, climb is synonymous with hike or clamber and not necessarily an ascent)? This reading would suggest that after getting to the corner of Kenwood and LMD ("cast in copper"), we are supposed to go south on the Oak Leaf Trail (into the park-"step on nature") until we get to the Locust Street Trail (ties the locust image in the picture to the verse), and then take that southeast until we get to the bottom of East Ravine Road, at which point we can "ascend the 92 steps". However, in order for this to work, there has to be something that ties the Locust Street Ravine Trail to the clue, preferably something on a sign or in writing somewhere. It doesn't change the end-game IMO since there are too many visual confirmers that suggest we head south by southwest after going around the pavilion, but it would tighten up the verse a little bit more, which would be nice.

I'm going to go ahead and share some things with the group that I have been keeping close. First off AP and I had an expedition on Saturday where we took a GPR to 6 or 7 suspected places in Lake Park. We did not see any anomalies in any of the area's including 2 old dig sites we thought we would check to be thorough. Because of inconclusive readings, the next step is to bury a replica and test it with the GPR to see exactly what we are searching for, then do another full sweep of the area's. Something that 421 is on to, I also feel is correct...here is a bomb for all of you map and overlay people.... To understand this, I had to study the rebus code for a long time...I figured since almost everything in the verse has a double meaning, maybe the image contains that as well. It then became clear to me that the rebus code is also a map. To understand it, you have to see the dual meanings. Let's start with the obvious...the walking stick is also, in fact a putter. When I first saw this, I realized that the two red balls were obviously the tee box markers for the golf course (I've played it many times...its a par 3, there are no women's tees and up until 2009, the tee box markers were 2 red balls the same color as the image). Looking into it more I thought the Key was a flag on the green and the millstone represented the green itself...the whole thing screams golf course. This is when I concentrated my efforts on the Wolcott statue. Through much research I came to the conclusion (with AP's help) that the statue was just a marker like the Bowman in Chicago, to let you know you are on the right track. It took some time but we were able to verify this visually with the image. A GPR search of the statue area turned up nothing, as did the GPR search of the southern area of the golf course. While I was solving the puzzle of the bell in the hand (it's an exact match to Lake Park Road which is shaped like a bell...I noticed the rebus map. I was attributing everything to the golf course, but it wasn't that... Everything in the verse matches up to the rebus code, in order. It doesn't line up exactly to an overhead map, but when you look at it as I will explain, it makes sense. The Flower - The only flower garden you pass on this whole route is in the middle of the Grand Staircase, so the Flower is the Staircase Walking Stick - Which is also a putter, represents the golf course which you walk by Key - The Key represents the lighthouse...after all it is the key to knowing where to go...also the direction of the tines on the key shine on the juggler illuminating that side of the image Red Balls - The red balls signify the bridge and the birch, if you draw a line through them you get a south east line Gem - this is the treasure ground Millstone - This took forever, but it finally dawned on me that the orientation gives it away, the Millstone is the oval track near the staircase This puts the treasure grounds between the ravine and the oval track, just where the verse is leading you to. Because there are obvious images of tree's in image 10, I would be certain that he used tree's for markers...this is unfortunate for reasons we all know. So we are left with Pass 3 and a Proud tall 5th...I haven't checked, but I think the oval is a 1/4 mile...although it's not uncommon to have a 1/5th mile track. Also there is very little to go on tree wise in this area, and even less things with writing, save the girl scout markers that are also now gone. Now that we have done our best checking that area, I'll open it up to your thoughts, the next time we go to check, I will consider all of the theories posted here. Also if the casque is recovered it will be put on display at the Discovery World Museum here in Milwaukee, with the full backstory...so if you come up with the "A-HA" moment, AP and I will make sure you get the credit deserved. With that...have at it, I can also answer any questions on this if any of it seems unclear.

FYI I've heard many people talk about this "Locust" in the picture...the blurred image at the bottom of the City Hall picture yes? This is only a representation of the entrance to city hall, its very striking... hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... rchway.jpg https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5096/5452 ... 003b_z.jpg

decibalnyc & AP could you guys check these trees out, the next time your out walking the pk would be nice if there is a birch tree in the mix its # 11 on the map hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/images/e ... 1921LG.jpg map hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/explore.shtml

We will check it out on the next expedition.

Unknown: So we are left with Pass 3 and a Proud tall 5th...I haven't checked, but I think the oval is a 1/4 mile...although it's not uncommon to have a 1/5th mile track. Not sure how much I agree with what you have written, but the bottom line is that we still end up in more or less the same place, without any remaining visual confirmers to pinpoint the actual digging spot. However, my sense is that the casque isn't as far north as the track for several reasons: 1) A track is neither proud, nor tall. 2) While there are 200 meter (1/5 of a kilometer) indoor tracks, I've never heard or anything but a 1/4 mile oval for outdoor tracks. I think that's what we have here. 3) Most importantly, I think we only had 3 trees between the "first young birch" and the "proud tall fifth", which suggests to me that everything was within a few hundred yards of the first, at most. The track seems to be a lot further than that, although maybe that's not the case when you are actually walking it. I will be very curious to see what the mock-up reveals, and whether that sheds any additional light on the practicality of using GPR to locate something like this. If it is inconclusive, then I'm afraid that only a historical photograph of the area is going to lead us to it.

Well weather you buy into the "visual map" on the rebus or not, the millstone or oval track would dictate that you've gone too far...it's only about 150 yards from the ravines to the track...if that. I just threw that out there to see what would stick...as I said I also believe it's a 1/4 mile track, the only thing the track has to do with it, IMO, is to serve as a marker to let you know that you've gone too far. Also the verse says first young birch...I feel this is represented by the 2nd of the 2 balls, the first ball representing the bridge. The "pass 3 staying west" says nothing about Birch tree's, nor does "proud tall 5th" it's only inferred. If you look at the image...relating this to my map theory, right before you would get to the gem, you would pass the image in the cape, which I have always believed is a 3 trunked tree, with something in the distance...you would stay west of it...this probably meant to take you behind a small patch of woods that separates the wood line from Lincoln Memorial Drive, where a large multi-trunked tree once stood. By the image map I proposed, if you follow the path towards the gem from the 2nd red ball, the cape image would be to your east (you would be staying west of it) and the gem would be just between the 3 trunked tree and the outer cape image which most likely represents the "proud tall 5th." Let me point out that if the tree with the foot on the outer edge of the cape is the "proud tall 5th" it is NOT a birch tree. It very clearly has vertical bark, more along the lines of a cottonwood. This map theory could be completely wrong, as with anything we've determined...however, it seems to make sense and fit all the objects we encounter along the way. The prior theory was BP didn't know his trees, and mistook cottonwood's for birch trees. I don't feel this is correct, he may have confused a young poplar tree with a young birch, but it's VERY HARD to see a paper birch and not know what it is...they stand out big time...it's a white tree. I believe their defiantly was a paper birch tree at the end of the north ravine...depending on which side of the ravine it was on, would send you north or south...my map theory would dictate that if the north ravine (the one of rock and soil) were correct, then going south as you exit the ravine towards the big cottonwoods would be wrong...also there was no casque found there when Forest and Co. dug out the entire south side of that tree in 2006. SO here we are with our thoughts...at the end of the ravine...trying to find a "letter from the country" on a "proud tall fifth" AGAIN I pose to you that the ONLY things with writing down there.... A Speed Limit sign - 30 MPH along LMD (can't verify it was there in 1982, also speed limit may have been 25 then need to check on this) The Girl Scout Trail Markers which were fastened to tree's - All of them gone now, but we do know the locations some of them existed. A tree that had a G carved into it, we don't know when it was carved, it wasn't a giant tree, or a birch tree...and it is also gone now And ladies and gentlemen...THAT IS IT...save a possible road sign that was broken off by vandals many years ago. Either there is a really clever play on words that we are missing, or it's exactly how it's written and the markers are all missing. Either way it's a needle in a haystack at this point. I walked it again last night, and walked over to the memorial "site 11" on the LPF map. Sorry no Birches there, but as the nature society stated, there were a lot more birches in the 80's than now. This spot is interesting, but pretty far from where the verse leaves you at the end of the ravines. If you had a good explanation for how you would get there, I'd be happy to GPR it.

Unknown: Well weather you buy into the "visual map" on the rebus or not, the millstone or oval track would dictate that you've gone too far...it's only about 150 yards from the ravines to the track...if that. I just threw that out there to see what would stick...as I said I also believe it's a 1/4 mile track, the only thing the track has to do with it, IMO, is to serve as a marker to let you know that you've gone too far. Unknown: Also the verse says first young birch..(edit) The "pass 3 staying west" says nothing about Birch tree's, nor does "proud tall 5th" it's only inferred. As I've said, I don't subscribe to the "visual map" theory but I would hope that I have done it respectfully and fully explained why. I have nothing but respect and admiration for those of you pounding the ground and putting in the time and resources that are going to be necessary to get another one of the casques out of the ground. If the area by the track "feels right", then by all means continue to explore it. I agree. The "young birch" was most likely exactly that. I have found plenty of pictures of what appear to be 30ish year old birch trees in Lake Park so it's entirely possible that there were birches there in 1981, but they are gone now. It's a very exposed area, as near to the lake as it is. The "pass three" probably refers to birches as well if we subscribe to the theory that these two clues work in concert to lead you to the "proud tall fifth". That is, four newly planted trees all in an easy to follow line (IMO, somewhat close together). The "proud, tall fifth" could be any type of tree at all, and if we are surmising that birches don't thrive in that area (owing to the fact that there aren't any there now), then it seems more likely that the "fifth" is not a birch, but some other type of tree.

R, I believe you are right, and no offense taken to not subscribing to the visual map...we all have to follow what makes sense to each of us. I thought the Wolcott statue was a lock...which you may or may not see in the documentary...but after careful consideration, and searching I ruled it out for now. I followed my visual map with the verse, you followed the verse...it led us to about the same area...that being said..weather my map idea is wrong or right...it gets us to the same basic area, so I won't rule it totally out just yet...also I can't say it's a lock either so it's just kinda out there...I shared it because of all this talk about the rebus symbols and the overlays recently on the forums. I thought that some people were looking for the same things that I previously spotted so I just put it out there...maybe it will spark 421 or WR to prod deeper into it and come up with a new theory. I also believe there very well may have been 4 birch tree's in total...weather 3 of them were in a line or not is up for debate...could have been, and wouldn't it be nice if it were, and pointed us in SOME direction. I again concur that the Proud Tall Fifth is also probably not a birch tree...I think it is a Cottonwood and it is represented by the image on the top of the cape (the foot tree). Renovator will probably not agree to this as I don't think he is sold on the "grand 200" being the CC of the staircase, but I believe this was a reference to the stairs and roman numerals. I pose that the tree we are looking for may be in the shape of a V or roman numeral 5. The numbers 1 and 3 can be represented by straight lines, but 5 is a V....just something to consider. THE BIG PROBLEM is this LETTER FROM THE COUNTRY. Even if we accept that we are looking for a single letter, a G or something related to Germany....where would this clue be, or WHAT would this clue be. I've thought it could be a tree growing in a V, also that could be a Y which is the last letter in Germany... the Y is the only letter in that word that could be represented by a tree without someone attaching a letter or marker to it. This is one of the most crucial clues as it tells you exactly where to dig...and unfortunately we may never be able to figure it out. All we can do is put up guesses. It's not by the Girl Scout marker tree, we cleared that area out, GPR'd it and dug up some of it...not the right spot, nor was that a very tall tree...it just happened to be in a spot where a marker needed to be placed, and because it was a young tree at the time it was placed, it was one of the last markers to remain. If it was a GS marker that represented the "letter from the country" we will have to search a lot of "suspected" places. Anyone know if the Girl Scouts have any ties to German heritage? If so, it might lend some more credence to this theory. As I said...there isn't much there in the way of words in that area...so is this letter something other than an actual letter? I can't be sure, but I would guess that we ARE looking for an actual letter...but I hope I am wrong and someone comes up with a good theory on this that can be further researched. If we can agree that it is somewhere near LMD between the ravines and the track, let's move on to figuring out the "Letter from the country" line.

decibalnyc wrote:: We will check it out on the next expedition. thanks i got as close as i could with gman, cant tell if there is a Birch or not https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0717439 ... b1MlbQ!2e0

cw0909 wrote:: thanks i got as close as i could with gman, cant tell if there is a Birch or not I went through that area several times today...no birch tree's. As a matter of fact the ONLY birch trees I have even seen are both near the golf course. The first young birch could have been mistaken with a young poplar as well. Any trees on LMD save the big giant cottonwoods from 1980 are pretty much gone now.

The talk lately about geometry in the images had me wondering how it would apply to my theory in image 10. I noticed the woman's eye looks like it's peering into the direction of the center of the mill stone. In terms of my theory about the Plankington rotunda, a thing which is round with a wishing well and statue in its center, I felt that was a good point of reference for applying the compass. Taking a heading at 200-degrees from there plots a course to a point which leads us approx. 100 paces southeast to the entrance of Kosciuszko Park. I may have to reconsider some reference points, but it all roughly comes to the same conclusion. The line from the mill stone to jewel fits the line from rotunda to park.

decibalnyc wrote:: THE BIG PROBLEM is this LETTER FROM THE COUNTRY. Even if we accept that we are looking for a single letter, a G or something related to Germany....where would this clue be, or WHAT would this clue be. Has everyone given up on the G on the harp lamps?

When turned 90 degrees, the red balls in the image align EXACTLY with the balls of the bridge. The image and it's objects overlay really nicely. At the empty hand, in real life:

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Has everyone given up on the G on the harp lamps? I don't know about giving up....but the harp lamps, I recently found out, we're not installed on LMD till 91 or 92....they were however put in lake park after the city upgraded their lamps...suspected that this happened pre 1982, still checking. Problem with the masonic G is they are on every lamp, and none are any taller than the rest..

Erexere, maybe this sculpture in Catalano square is of some interest to you hxxp://www.jimreitzphoto.com/Landscape/ ... 155-X2.jpg https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0312036 ... a=!3m1!1e3

decibalnyc wrote:: I don't know about giving up....but the harp lamps, I recently found out, we're not installed on LMD till 91 or 92....they were however put in lake park after the city upgraded their lamps...suspected that this happened pre 1982, still checking. Problem with the masonic G is they are on every lamp, and none are any taller than the rest.. I think those have been around forever: hxxp://landmarkhunter.com/197946-harp-luminai341e/ . There are all sorts of pictures from the 50s and 30s, and even ealier, with the lamps evident.

Nice sculpture, but no, it doesnt seem to fit with anything in my current focus.

The harp lamps were installed in the city of Milwaukee in the 30's....when the city upgraded to more modern lights, the lamps were moved to Lake Park. I have photo's of L.M.D. from 96 and the Harp Lamps are not there. It is believed they were put into the park pre 1982 but we are checking as to when the upgrade was for them to be taken out and moved. The city felt they were historic, so they may not have come into the park until 91 when it was put on the historical register. In any case, until we find out, we have to consider that the Harpsichord line (if there were no harp lamps in 82) would mean something different, as could the Cast in Copper line, as the harp lamps are Cast in Copper being brass fixtures. I always thought taking LMD down and around the stairs was a much more tedious route than taking another way to the bottom of the stairs. I was suggesting that Cast in Copper could refer to the Harp lamps leading a path to the bottom of the stairs. In any case, the lamps might not have been there in 82, nor the compass and square and G on the stone bases.

If we do find out that the harp lamps were in the park in 1980 but not LMD until 2000...then the whole dual meaning thing comes into play hardcore. When I dissected the verse I found a double meaning (sometimes more) for almost every line...there at least seems to be some kind of duality in them. EXAMPLES 3 Stories of Mitchell - Mitchell Hall, Mitchell Mansion, Mitchell Domes, Mitchell St. which used to be the old downtown Beating of the world - Jewish Candle Ceremony / Ken Wood's Mixers and Car Stereo's Distance in time / Distance in space - I've always thought that this meant for you NOT to walk in a straight line past the streets with the names of prominent Milwaukee figures (which I'm surprised no one has brought up Christian Wahl who had a statue that used to sit on the front lawn of the Bistro at the top of the stairs) but to walk using some sort of L pattern from 3 who lived there (mitchell hall where all 3 Mitchell brothers lived) and Marietta ave...but I gave up on this once the Grand Staircase became apparent. In the back of my mind I always wondered if we had not entered the park correctly. From Woman - This seems to be the least of the dual meanings, speaking to Marietta Ave. but the rest of the line - With harpsichord - is this referencing Marietta the Harpsichord player, or the street and a Harp lamp. Silently Playing - Depending on if we entered the park right, if you got to Newberry st. or the proper entrance to the park, you would see the Golf Course a hush hush game Step on nature - Oak Leaf Trail or Lake Park itself if we entered the park the wrong way, maybe this also meant take a ravine trail Cast in Copper - This could be LMD since it does lead to the bottom of the stairs, but it could be a Harp lamp reference or a reference to anything brass or bronze in the park. Also there could have been a fountain there in 1980...still checking. The 92 Stairs - The Staircase does have 92 stairs without the added landing that was put on, but there are MANY stairs in lake park...all the ravine trails have stairs as well. Pass the compass - This seems to be the only thing that wouldn't have a dual meaning that was right away obvious. I have checked to see of there was anything else that resembled a compass or a sun dial or anything, no word yet but the feeling from everyone is no... Foot of the culvert - This could mean so many different things...any of the ravines, or actual culverts by the lighthouse Below the Bridge - which bridge, there are 2 bridges with the same name by the lighthouse Then he starts counting off paces, and the rest seems to be straight directions to the treasure grounds, save the Birch, the 3, and the 5th. I've been trying to get to the bottom of these dual meanings...to rule them out and get some clarity. I think once everyone found the Staircase, it seemed like the front half was considered a foregone conclusion. As Renovator said, not finding every clue shouldn't impede you from finding the treasure grounds, but I feel if we entered the park the wrong way, we are taking the wrong path, and possibly ending up in the wrong place...something to consider. The image doesn't seem to make a whole lot of sense with the verse to me until you enter the park...but I wonder if it would make more sense if you entered the park on Newberry or even Locust...just a thought

Unknown: As Renovator said, not finding every clue shouldn't impede you from finding the treasure grounds, but I feel if we entered the park the wrong way, we are taking the wrong path, and possibly ending up in the wrong place...something to consider. Just to be clear, I don't think we need any more information on the clues that precede "ascend the 92 stairs" to solve this puzzle. There is no doubt in my mind that at that point in the journey, we are standing at the top of the Grand Staircase, trying to decide where to go next, and not how we got there. Unified theories are nice, as they may shed light on the other 9 puzzles, but for this one, all we need is a historic photo of LMD at the foot of the NLB Ravine circa 1982. It's my opinion that I would probably be saying the same thing about the Chicago casque if that one wasn't already out of the ground. We are in the right place. We just need confirmation on the "last mile". I'm reminded of the old joke about the drunk who is looking for his car keys on the corner of 5th and Main. When approached by a cop, and asked to explain himself, he tells the cop that he dropped his car key outside O'Briens, and is trying to find them. The cop, amused, reminds him that O'Briens is on the corner of 6th and Main to which the drunk replies "I know that. But the light is much better over here.". At the foot of the NLB Ravine is where we need to focus the search, even if it is easier to look someplace else. My two "cast in copper".

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: At the foot of the NLB Ravine is where we need to focus the search, even if it is easier to look someplace else. Careful what you wish for! I'll have the answer to that by the end of tomorrow.

decibalnyc wrote:: I went through that area several times today...no birch tree's. As a matter of fact the ONLY birch trees I have even seen are both near the golf course. The first young birch could have been mistaken with a young poplar as well. Any trees on LMD save the big giant cottonwoods from 1980 are pretty much gone now. thanks, to bad, the only reference to trees in the pk, that made sense to look at, to me maybe there was a birch and now its gone, if you pass by there again could you get a wide shot of the area

Unknown: I'll have the answer to that by the end of tomorrow. Sounds promising. Good luck.

Unknown: Bluffs and Ravines Research has been done on the Frederick Law Olmsted vision. Historic photos, planting plans, maps, correspondence, and old park annual reports have been collected and studied. hxxp://www.lakeparkfriends.org/projects.shtml wow if someone could get a look at this material/files, may help in what BP saw in 80/81 credit lake park friends

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: but for this one, all we need is a historic photo of LMD at the foot of the NLB Ravine circa 1982. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0645635 ... AgLMEg!2e0

Wow, nice one! I'm loving the many-trunked tree.

Being that the GS trail came in here, it woulda might coulda likely been a tree that the markers were hung on:

animal painter wrote:: This is a photo I found in the basement of the Milwaukee County Parks Administration Building... (where all of the old papers and photos are kept in old file cabinets) On the back, the date of "1940" is written. It is the only photo that was of any value that I could tell. The original photo is sepia in color. I posted a copy of the photo scanned in black and white. If these are the same trees that we are considering as our counting trees, they look very much like birch trees! Maybe we did not give BP enough credit in his knowledge of trees. At least we can see why he might have called them birches...if they looked at all like this in 1982. Notice the multi-trunk tree at the end of the ravine trail by the PT5th. When was that removed? See the other trees that were growing there originally. Maybe one of them is responsible for the "divot" that was found by Pine. AP (this and other photos...old and new... are at webshots...at the link below) hxxp://tinyurl.com/66gbfa Hirudiniforme, I found that same photo at the Milwaukee County Parks Administration Building. If I remember correctly, it was either from the 1930s or early 1940s. AP This quote is from "Milwaukee Update" thread, April,2008. The Webshots photo is not there any more, but I have the photo on my computer.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Being that the GS trail came in here, it woulda might coulda likely been a tree that the markers were hung on: It is written in the Girl Scout Hiking Trail brochure... "Past Bradford Beach, watch for trail sign on tree as you enter the first ravine" So I take it that there was a GS sign on the big cottonwood by the South Lion Bridge ravine entrance. It would have been removed in the 1990s when the Lake Park leg of the Hike was discontinued. AP

It may be that this flattened area on the trunk of the Big Cottonwood by the South Ravine Entrance was where a metal marker was attached for over ten years.

Unknown: I'm loving the many-trunked tree. Me too. But if that picture dates from the 30's or 40's, what are the chances that those are our trees? The smaller trees are almost certainly not the "young birches" that Preiss saw, but it's entirely possible that one of them is the "proud tall fifth". And even if our tree is gone, the ground may still contain evidence of where it once stood. Unless they are ground down or dug up and removed, stumps and root structures of large trees stay intact for a long time before they naturally decompose and rot away.

Just to let you know that a Radio Shack metal detector can sense the metal of a very thin Allen Wrench when it is part of a ceramic "key" placed inside a ceramic object, placed inside a 1/4" thick Plexiglas box, buried 2 feet under the ground! This may help others in trying to find possible locations before digging...

This is potentially good news! Can Sir Egbert verify how a small allen wrench compares to what was in the key he found? I thought it was more of a fragment of a paperclip.

This is a photo of the key found in Cleveland. As you can see, the metal rod is a bit more substantial than a paperclip. Here is a link to the article about the Cleveland Find. It is very entertaining and interesting! hxxp://www.angelfire.com/dragon/egbert/secret.html

That does look substantial. It looks like a nice little shaft of metal, greater than a 1" finishing nail. I have zero experience with metal detectors. What model detector was used and are there any specific calibrations needed?

Here is a better photo of the key from that same article. The metal detector was a Radio Shack Discovery 2000. (Don't know if they still make this model.)

Metal detectors may also be more effective when the ground you're searching in isn't landfill!

The metal inside looks like a thin allen wrench. The bottom part of the key was originally coated in ceramic, but the Cleveland casque and key were in pieces. Not sure if ceramic coating obscures the metal detection. That is good news if you can detect it. That is also strange news. I would think that with all of the precautions that BP took, wouldn't he make the casque immune from metal detectors? Hmmm.

Granted, my mock-up casque and plexiglas box are not identical to the real-deal....So I should say that the metal detector MAY be able to sense the allen-wrench-type metal in the key. The ceramic mock-casque is made of very strong ceramic that was bisque-fired (fired only once). It had no coating or paint on it of any kind. Also, the sound of the box being hit by a soil probe gave more of a "thud" sound than a plastic "tick" sound. The dirt surrounding it must muffle the sound quite a lot. I must admit that there was still a thrill upon seeing the shiny plastic box down in the hole when I was digging it up again. AP

thank you for renewing our hopes

Someday someone might try metal detecting at the base of the Kosciuszko monument. My first choice would be at the boot on the west side. Second choice, the south side.

In 2008, I found the Girl Scout trail brochures and maps for their "Trail of the Parks" through Lake Park. Back then, trying to find photos taken by the original scouts who created the "trail", I was able to talk to the woman who was in charge of the project. She did not remember any of the names of the girls who were in the troops when they created the trail. Today, I called another woman (who is in her 70s) who was also involved in scouting at that time. She did not remember any of the particular girls names who were involved back in 1972 when they first made the trail...but she did give me the name of the original lady who was in charge. It was the SAME lady I spoke to in 2008! She is 95 years old and still going strong! (But she still does not remember any names...) There are a few former Girl Scout leaders who get together twice a year...and they will be meeting on November 1st. I asked the woman to inquire of the group if any of them remembered names of the girls who created the trail, or if anyone had any photos of Lake Park, LMD around the bridges and ravines from the 1970s or 1980s. I did this once before with no results, but maybe something will come of it this time!

What an excellent story! That's fantastic effort, AP! Looking forward to hearing what comes of it.

Egbert wrote:: The metal inside looks like a thin allen wrench. The bottom part of the key was originally coated in ceramic, but the Cleveland casque and key were in pieces. Not sure if ceramic coating obscures the metal detection. That is good news if you can detect it. That is also strange news. I would think that with all of the precautions that BP took, wouldn't he make the casque immune from metal detectors? Hmmm. hi Egbert, BP prob thought he had taken precautions against the use of an Md, as it was a very small piece of iron, and about 3ft down, in 1980s the tech for Mds at that time wouldnt have been able to find it, here a link to an article about the Md tech then im just finding out that the key was iron about the size of a allen key,so there are numerous Md now that can detect at that depth and size of that piece of metal, in all metal mode, just one prob though,if there are several pieces of iron big or small, above the box, you would have to dig those 1st,then keep checking hole hxxp://www.bowenshideout.com/items.php?cat_id=1

I investigated metal detectors at one point and found out unless you have a seriously huge (meaning thousands of dollars or hand made) you will only be able to detect about 15 inches max

yes sorry posted the wrong link, and it wont let me edit,otteriffic yes a 2 box or a PI, would be needed hxxp://www.metaldetection.net/English/D ... n.Eng.html

When AP and I did the mock casque burial, her MD was able to pick it up.

Look at this...Do you think that the red balls in image 10 are the circular holes in a grey concrete bridge? That seems an unnecessary stretch of logic. (The photo is from 2007, before these balls were replaced with yellow ones.) kr

animal painter wrote:: Look at this...Do you think that the red balls in image 10 are the circular holes in a grey concrete bridge? That seems an unnecessary stretch of logic. (The photo is from 2007, before these balls were replaced with yellow ones.) kr I was finally looking at the tee markers on Google Maps the other day and wondered why everyone was talking about them when they were clearly yellow, now it makes sense to me they used to be a different color. Perhaps I missed that they were replaced with yellow ones in the discussion here, I just assumed they were and still are orange. Thank you for clearing up this recent confusion for me. Looks like a pretty good match to me. The thing I can't get around (and if I missed this somewhere in the discussion please tell me), is why is only one of the juggled objects have the same blowing blue light surrounding it that surrounds the juggler's head, right shoulder, and right hand? None of the other objects - including the other orange ball - feature this. Surely that's intentional and is used to indicate something, right? Edit: Regarding the glowing blue light, atomic and Merlot noted it earlier this year but there wasn't much discussion on it. I'm intrigued why only one object (and only one of the two balls) has a glowing blue background.

The tee markers are blue flags now, and the plastic ones are new since 1981 as well, they used to be round wooden balls of the same orange color, I know I took one home with me when I was still a teenage delinquent in my youth many many years ago. The color on those are darn near an exact match, and I've always thought they were tee markers...this is the one reason I won't abandon L.P. even when I keep finding other evidence because these are an exact match IMO. NOW...those who subscribe to Lake Park being the correct place will say that those Tee Balls are an exact match and this confirms Lake Park as the correct area. The neck pattern being found on a 3 story Mitchell building downtown is just a coincidence. Those who subscribe to L.P. not being the right place will say that the Tee Balls are coincidence and the other find is hard evidence....I've been on both sides of the argument and it gets you nowhere. I can't say where I think it is...I just don't know yet....it is important to keep looking for evidence. It's hard to say weather those balls were to represent tee markers...if the color was even slightly off people might throw that theory right out the window and revert to saying they are the balls on the ravine rd. bridge. In the same respect my brick pattern from the neck that I have spotted all over town....I haven't spotted it in Red and Gold, but I know the parking structure on Milwaukee and Wells, as well as the Mitchell Mansion were both painted...as of now, I think color is probably important to something...That same shade of color is used for a few different objects in other images...the Rose in image 1 The Armour guts in Image 3 The tile at the top of image 7, and the gem in image 8. It could be an arbitrary thing, maybe only used to represent Feburary, maybe a clue to the solve. Also I have played golf at Lake Park many many times over the years and those plastic balls are even replacements for wooden ones that existed pre 2000. The neck pattern is gold and red...same colors as in ALL the theaters downtown and there are like 8 of them. That color could also be gold or faded yellow brick with something red in the background...or whatever...it might be something that doesn't exist anymore...like an old parking structure or building near UWM that was torn down since 1981. To me it looks like the ceiling of an old beer hall or tavern...a speakeasy, Milwaukee has a lot of them all over. In any case...I agree those tee balls are a dead match, and I believe the wooden ones from the 80's matched just as well...so that has to be weighed into everything, but just because you find 1 match for 1 thing....that doesn't mean it's bad to keep looking and keep identifying matches to other things. There are many things that match up to the millstone, but I don't think anyone has been able to say THAT'S IT beyond a reasonable doubt. If color is important, that neck pattern will be gold and red, the millstone will also be darker on the outside than it is on the top and will have a square hole in it.

meatypuffs wrote:: The thing I can't get around (and if I missed this somewhere in the discussion please tell me), is why is only one of the juggled objects have the same blowing blue light surrounding it that surrounds the juggler's head, right shoulder, and right hand? None of the other objects - including the other orange ball - feature this. Surely that's intentional and is used to indicate something, right? Recently I came up with a theory on the glowing blue objects...there is still no hard proof, but I thought that some of (or maybe all) the objects with the blue hue could be things that are found in the city...real things. Like in the Chicago image has the fairy pouring the water which is found on the fountain...but only the womans image is on the fountain, not the wings or the water basin, coincidentally the wings and basin aren't surrounded in blue. Because that hue seems to be in every image, it's hard to tell weather the theory holds weight. I guess if you find something that's in an image in reality and the image doesn't have the hue, this would prove that theory wrong. I've also wondered about the Milwaukee puzzle being very unique....it has a rebus instead of coordinates....there is a possibility you may be required to go inside a building as part of the search which doesn't seem to follow any kind of pattern, there are hardly any kinds of tangible clues like architecture, statues, buildings, WALLS and PILLARS...FENCEPOSTS. I would say it's one of the harder ones to figure out as far as matching up the images to the verse in 1 spot in the city.

This is a revised version of the post from last night. I have a little more time this morning to elaborate. View the three stories of Mitchell - Mitchell Mansion (now the Wisconsin Club) From the rear you can see this.... https://www.dropbox.com/s/tytindkcfljt3gt/MitchellMansionBack.jpg?dl=0 As you walk the beating of the world - This one Erexere figured out, referencing H.G. Wells "War of the worlds" - Walk down Wells St. The street you happen to be on while able to view this pattern from the Image. But which way do we walk... At a distance in time From three who lived there - This is a reference to the 3 founders of the city, Solomon Juneau, Byron Kilbourn, and George H. Walker. All of them formed settlements around the river system downtown...when the city was formed, City Hall was erected in the middle of the 3 settlements which eventually turned into the downtown area. So you walk towards the river, or east...when you get to the river, you'll see this...the pinnacle of Milwaukee Henry Winkler... https://www.dropbox.com/s/rn7vfeadq83mr2p/fonz.jpg?dl=0 Of course the "Bronze Fonz" wasn't there in 81, but the riverwalk, and bridge work with that pattern again, were there in 81 This next section needs some work, and there could be many possible things in the downtown area and near city hall which could pertain to the verse, but I haven't quite figured them out completely. At a distance in space From woman, with harpsichord Silently playing Could refer to the giant Lire on the Pabst Theater https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cathedral+Square+Park/@43.0409185,-87.9102267,3a,15y,357.97h,143.27t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1snqun6sqSVy79_Pkmrtz3DQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x880519088beaa84b:0xd8f0d136b9749bc9 or could refer to the performing arts center, behind it is this sculpture hxxp://i.imgur.com/14D1H9N.jpg Step on nature - There are plenty of grassy park like areas around city hall including the peck pavillion across the street from city hall https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0422757,-87.9107416,3a,37.5y,306.83h,88.44t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sUp1cOxU1kBdBAzDL_rN1hw!2e0 Cast in copper - There is a fountain about where BP would have took the polaroid of city hall - go to this link on Maps, and just turn around to see the view that BP saw when he snapped the picture https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0424989,-87.9105626,3a,75y,277.43h,87.37t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sd3hFXMSyL4n569aExuB-tg!2e0 Ascend the 92 steps - There is a 92 step spiral staircase that leads up to the observation deck of City Hall https://www.dropbox.com/s/9lp1db0nuqjdpjf/cityhalltower.jpg?dl=0 After the observation deck, you climb another set of stairs up to the highest point, the bell tower, where you will see the Solomon Juneau Bell https://www.dropbox.com/s/1rgln6h91lif8vk/juneaubell.jpg?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/pujijneiec7ipee/bell2.png?dl=0 After climbing the grand 200 - City Hall is 200 Wells St. its the oldest grandest building in downtown, you've just climbed it.. https://c2.staticflickr.com/6/5096/5452603818_7887bd003b_z.jpg to see the address you have to exit on Wells once again. Upon exiting the front door where the address of 200 is, you see this stone fixture https://www.dropbox.com/s/euwn4uvo35m78sl/stone.jpg?dl=0 Then exiting the outside atrium you will see the neck image again, inverted on the building across the street just to the east from the entrance of city hall..leading you east on Wells. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0410658,-87.9092324,3a,90y,158.41h,92.61t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOq6uvHBLLiji-z3B_BYPDA!2e0 Keep walking east on Wells 2 more blocks and you see the symbol again https://www.google.com/maps/@43.041159,-87.9073778,3a,75y,138.62h,78.08t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1ss7KM4z3UF63qUIQDHv0ikg!2e0 Walk 2 more blocks and you reach Cathedral Square Park, where we have this statue. https://www.dropbox.com/s/hh4pk8fte7fo9ya/statue1.jpg?dl=0 And this fountain https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cathedral+Square+Park/@43.0417081,-87.904997,140m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m2!3m1!1s0x880519088beaa84b:0xd8f0d136b9749bc9 Just east of the park is the Cathedral of St. John with the rectory beside it https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cathedral+Square+Park/@43.0418017,-87.9043313,3a,90y,108.14h,120.93t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1suJ2jfLJFcF8SAq4amKgoKQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x880519088beaa84b:0xd8f0d136b9749bc9 This is a possible match for this inverted image in the neck - I find it similar, not dead on by any means https://www.dropbox.com/s/5qg3n8ycyqv0xgj/neck.png?dl=0 ... it could also be a match for St. Mary's which is right behind city hall - again...hard to say that image was anything but these look similar https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cathedral+Square+Park/@43.0419784,-87.906887,3a,30y,288.03h,106.43t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sTEKRaPFOZlpOK4_GLysfDA!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x880519088beaa84b:0xd8f0d136b9749bc9 Here is another look at St. John's...notice the eagles on the building, possible match for our bird in the lower left https://www.dropbox.com/s/xa676e5o3jvkjys/bird.png?dl=0 https://www.dropbox.com/s/99x8vvf0vjg2ypa/stjohns.jpg?dl=0 Pass the compass and reach Directly across Wells from St. John's is the the Humphrey Scottish Rite Masonic Center, it has compass' all over it, and some possible image matches.... https://www.dropbox.com/s/9n8pvbpkjyu9sk9/Face.png?dl=0 https://c1.staticflickr.com/9/8027/7701689858_0acdce7b38_z.jpg And if you continue walking down Wells until you can't anymore you will see the biggest visual we have in Juneau Park https://www.dropbox.com/s/m7djbfe1i130uqc/Juggl.png?dl=0 Letting you know this is the spot...if you take the footpaths behind the Juneau statue https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cathedral+Square+Park/@43.0425516,-87.897504,3a,37.5y,289.6h,92.86t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1smwS-9CUXL0cGf5H0qDe-_Q!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x880519088beaa84b:0xd8f0d136b9749bc9 low and behold to your right is the LINCOLN Memorial Bridge, which you can now reach after passing Juneau https://www.google.com/maps/@43.041183,-87.898166,3a,75y,214.28h,80.54t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1s4GVWKlNDEulOQ4BaEAnbXA!2e0 The foot of the culvert Below the bridge Walk 100 paces Southeast over rock and soil To the first young birch This puts you in the patch of trees by the War Memorial https://www.google.com/maps/place/Cathedral+Square+Park/@43.0401106,-87.8982367,3a,90y,79.56h,78.02t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sOlRbiNk5z4VhLxOo6dJ9hQ!2e0!4m2!3m1!1s0x880519088beaa84b:0xd8f0d136b9749bc9 and would put the treasure grounds in an area where the Calatrava Building now sits...beyond this statue of LINCOLN https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0404902,-87.8979364,3a,15y,158.96h,90.06t/data=!3m4!1e1!3m2!1sG7miFUixBh-sFJckVnnCTw!2e0 The area used to look like this https://www.dropbox.com/s/d817qvli60ltn7l/WarMem1.jpg?dl=0 Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot... All of that we will have to trace with historical photos as the Calatrava building was erected in the parking lot of the war memorial / art museum and then attached to it. Further south down the shore stands the Museum I work for, Discovery World...ahh the irony.

And if anyone posts this solution, or uses any part of it to bolster their own solution please credit appropriately, as I did Erexere for the Wells St. find

Milwaukee is where the fun is at. I predict it will be the next casque found. I still think the real reason the word "stories" is used in the first line is literary clue. If Wells is one find, there's bound to be another writer hint. Three who lived there is still unsettled in my mind.

Erexere....Look at the founding of Milwaukee.

Im aware. I just feel theres something tricky about the line.

My interpretation is At a distance in time - Many years ago From Three who lived there - When the city was young and there were 3 settlements they all met at 1 place, the river junction. So as you walk across the river, you immediately see the pattern, city hall, the riverwalk...this is right after you walk right past the Germania building just west of the river. Its basically a direction...walk towards the river. You are entering the arts district, right east of the museum district and the courthouse where you came from. This is where the next line, which I feel is more tricky, comes into play. There is a music reference and you are right in the middle of the arts district...3 or 4 large theaters, an outdoor music pavilion, riverwalk etc... If you don't walk East towards the river junctions, you wouldn't get to the next clue. Also in 1980 there was an national expose done on Milwaukee where they talk about that.

LotJ guides my understanding that Milwaukee involves the topic of measurement, using the words Imperial star of Germany. I think it has a lot to do with identifying those residents of Milwaukee who were measured by their stars, like Erasmus Wolcott and TK. Are there any other statues of Generals? Mitchell?

Sorry. Im still developing the thought. I have that 1976 bicentennial notion about George Washington being upgraded from a 3 star general to a 5 star general of the armies.

I think that's fabulous work, not much else to add as I Milwaukee has always been beyond my reach. Very strong case and fits my personal "feeling" of how to follow the painting/verses. I think standing there in 1983 would probably reveal a lot more, and possibly point a specific spot to stick your shovel in the ground, if you're right.

Hi all, Ok, I have went back through the posts and wanted to play devil's advocate. Has anyone ever wondered if this picture is not Milwaukee? This city has been searched for over 10 years, and I feel that the casque is never to be found. I believe that the casque for this picture is located in Salt Lake City. Here are some points I would like to make about this picture: 1. Of the two casques found, both had a latitude and longitude identifying the city. The community has believed that a rebus identified the city. Why would the this picture deviate from the others? 2. If you follow this belief, you discount potential clues to solving the puzzle. The cane, key and millstone will be excluded because they are used in the rebus. 3. If the picture needs to include a lat and long numbers, where are they? 4. If you turn the picture upside down. Look at the empty hand. If you look at the pinky finger, you will see a '4' in the shadow. The index finger shadow makes a '1'. So, you can see 41 as the latitude. If you believe this, you will realize that Milwaukee is too far north. 5. The right size of her hair, you can see three 1's. So, 111 is the longitude. 6. Salt Lake City is location is 40.7,111.8 , so this fits. 7. I think the cane is a match for the Brigham Young statue, who was the founder of the city. 8. There are many churches in the area that I am sure one will match the building in the background. That's all I have for now. I will be investigating this city to see if I can identify additional clues. I look forward to a great conversion about this theory. Cheers! Toasty

I don't think anyone is particularly closed off to anything at all. I'm not even against having a Millwaukee "rebus" being a red herring, but a Mill-walk-key rebus and a building that really looks like city hall? I'll give you that the City Hall image is probably the most obvious building in all 12 paintings (it took years to find the terminal tower in whitespace) though. With the Mitchell reference in the verse and the other image-matches that have slowly but surely turned up I'd say you'll need at least something convincing for another city. Do you have pictures of the statue you say the walking stick matches? I'm sure there are a few BY statues around.

Hi all, I have spend a few minutes investigating the Salt Lake City theory. There is a millstone in a couple of places on display. The first is a millstone located near the Tabernacle. The second is located in a place called Benson Grist Mill just west of the city. I am still looking for reference for the key. As for Mitchell, I don't like to try to match the verse to the puzzle until I have identified the park/location from the picture. But, with that said, I did find a famous person in Salt Lake City named Benjamin Thomas Mitchell. Maybe I can find the 3 stories that relate to him. Cheers, Toasty

Toasty wrote:: Hi all, I have spend a few minutes investigating the Salt Lake City theory. There is a millstone in a couple of places on display. The first is a millstone located near the Tabernacle. The second is located in a place called Benson Grist Mill just west of the city. I am still looking for reference for the key. Right next to the tabernacle!! And in 2007...

I would require some serious convincing of any place other than Milwaukee. To me, it doesn't get much better than that.

If you include the "aw" sound in "utah," all the letters of "walk" from "walking stick" are in "salt lake city"!! Convinced yet?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ5LpwO-An4

Toasty, Try to read all the forums completely. I know it takes a while, but it's the second step after reading the book itself. There is a lot of info you need to look over more carefully. People have spent time on this, there are image and verse confirmations for some cities that many people agree on...Image 10 being Milwaukee is one.

Hey, I'd be happy to unpost 2200 or so...just to clear things up for ya.

erexere wrote:: Hey, I'd be happy to unpost 2200 or so...just to clear things up for ya. Yeah, I can't tell you how many days of my life I've wasted researching absolute nonsense. I try to keep the posting of that nonsense to around 10%, though, which includes trolling. Too bad hind sight is 20/20. Welcome, Toasty!

Image 10 forum is full of wiseguys today :-)

Honestly, I hope its understood that I felt it was a very important contribution that more than 95 percent of my posts help everyone understand the truth about confirmation bias. "Cocaine, its a helluva drug." -Dave Chappelle. hxxp://youtu.be/udNHsk57f24

I posted what I think is a good working solution. There are image and verse matches, and I think with some time and research we will be able to pin it down to an exact location. Will it still be there...who knows. With the close match to the Juggler on the Juneau statue, that puts you only 100 yards or less from the Lincoln Memorial Bridge. That would be your bridge, at the top of the bridge is a statue of Lincoln...going southeast from the bridge puts you in the area by the war memorial... If he is leading you south to the grounds from there (which is the only way to go if you are "staying west" as you would have to walk east to get behind the war memorial) there is a chance it could be where the Discovery World museum sits now, or even a bit further south to the large play field is next to the Summerfest north gate. I also had a thought that the first few verse lines for Milwaukee were a city confirmation. If you put together Mitchell, with "At a distance in time From three who lived there" you are going to come up with either Pabst, Schlitz, and Miller....or Walker, Kilbourn, and Juneau. Since the founding of the city evolved around Walker, Kilbourn, and Juneau I would put that as the correct assumption even though the brewery founders would be attractive considering the German theme. So if this is correct, and there seems to be a pattern with the first part of the verse as a tie in to the city, so you can properly match up the verses to the images, then we can assume with some degree of certainty that Image 10 goes with Verse 8 and they both go with Milwaukee. Let's look at Chicago also....the water tower is not a hidden clue, like Cleveland, and if you start at the water tower, its a straight shot all the way down Michigan Ave to Grant Park. As I recall there weren't many visual clues between the water tower and the treasure area until you got close. In Image 10, City Hall is not really hidden...its one of the first few things you notice. If you use it as a starting point, the puzzle works a lot like Chicago. Wells st. is the verse clue, the closer you get to the grounds the more visuals you see, and when you see the biggest visual of all, then you see your bridge, but you would never even know it's a bridge until you could see the underneath from the same position you would be looking at the plaque on the statue. It looks more like a culvert because Mason street just turns into it and dead ends at the war memorial, without it really looking like you are about to go on a bridge...coming into Juneau Park from Wells would take you to the statue via a footopath. So we don't necessarily need to start at Mitchell Mansion, even though there is a strong visual there, I think it's more of a city confirmation in the verse, and you can look to other verses to find this also.

How many times do I have to tell you people?!?! You park the semi and then you go look for the casque in the ravine!!!

Wow this thing is really blowing up!! This is what happens when you let a computer do all the thinking for you. This guy's GPS must have been made by Preiss Visual Publications. hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=unQJNB_8HiI The crazy thing about this is that there is NO WAY POSSIBLE to mistake the foot path from the parking lot as a road...and there are 3 signs there plus a Caution sign...no right turn, under the stop sign it lists prohibited vehicles, and the 3rd sign states that it's a Service Drive Only. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0676412 ... -8Vv_w!2e0 The side of the truck said "We drive a fine line..." but it was reported that it should have said..."We followed the verse, line by line"

decibalnyc wrote:: there is NO WAY POSSIBLE to mistake the foot path from the parking lot as a road I guess that's what the company means when they say they "drive a fine line."

I think Willhouse has finally had it with the whole thing :-) I would expect another tractor/trailer combo to show up at Herman park soon LOL

What about a jackhammer? They might've paved right over the casque and it's still there!

Hirudiniforme wrote:: If you include the "aw" sound in "utah," all the letters of "walk" from "walking stick" are in "salt lake city"!! Convinced yet?! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZZ5LpwO-An4 LOL OMG #datHeMandoe TTYL! (Ok, I'm done. There's my wasted post!)

Just to reach 100? TJ..that's almost as bad as what I am doing right now too :-)

Hello everyone. I just registered to this site a few days ago but, I have been looking in Milwaukee for over a year now. I am from the SA forums and got involved when I read that one might be located in Milwaukee when this was posted over there. I am up to speed on many of the theories and I might have been one of the contributors who provided idea/image verification from those forums. I am using the same handle so if you look there, you can see my posts. I am semi-active in searching still. I am in the camp of "it's probably long lost to renovations" but, I have desire to solve it as best as possible by at least pinning a possible location of where it might have been. It's getting cold here so I'll be doing less ground pounding but, I am trying to dig up photos and maps of Milwaukee to verify what has changed and what hasn't. Reading your ideas yesterday and today, I really want to make a point to all those attempting to use Google maps (and especially Street View) you are shooting yourself in the foot. When I started searching, a *free* aerial view of Milwaukee wasn't available for the around 1980s. I knew it was going to become available so I held off too much searching until it came out. As of recently there is a map circa 1985 and one for 1980 (which I am waiting for) is due out this quarter. I suggest many of you take your ideas and follow along on one of these maps located here: hxxp://county.milwaukee.gov/mclio/geodata/imagery.html The way to use it via a web browser is simple. Pick a map by date and click the middle icon. It will take you to a page where you can click a javascript link to give you a zoom-able aerial view of Milwaukee. The 1985 is the closest one so far but, 1980 is due out soon. I highly recommend you follow your route on these maps because you will instantly see how useless Google street view is. Some buildings are certainly timeless and been there for 100s of years. The streets, the paths, the trees, and most importantly the areas by or near monuments... ALL HAVE CHANGED. The map is detailed down to you can identify a car from a truck but, you won't be reading any signs. You also won't be identifying any trees. Although, this map has been crucial to me throwing out about a dozen or so "possibilities". Please, take a look at this map. I want to find a solution with all of you. Unfortunately, I think the only way is going to not involve Google. I'm quite busy with work these next few months but, feel free to ask me directly if you need something verified. I travel around here quite a bit (I usually bus or bike) and I am happy to check out a place and snap a few photos when convenient.

Crashdome, Thanks for sharing that excellent resource of aerial photos. Welcome to the forum! AP

Sorry for the double post. I guess it was a moderation thing because I am new here. I should add that Lake Park is probably one of the few green areas that has remained pretty much the same.

Welcome crashdome! Big thank you for all your contribs over the year. Glad you haven't given up.

crashdome wrote:: The streets, the paths, the trees, and most importantly the areas by or near monuments... ALL HAVE CHANGED.

So Milwaukee is presently under snow... (About a month earlier than usual)...with single-digit morning temps to freeze the earth solid... Oh joy....

No snow but we're rapidly ground freezing in Boston. :/ may be a short window to dig left, I'm not a geologist.

Yea Milwaukee is getting an early start to winter. Digging will be on hold for a few months....good time to do research! I am hoping some of you start researching my downtown solution and find some holes or better fits..there are an awful lot of visual confirmations downtown. I know there are people on here that have been researching the Grand Ave. downtown version...I'd urge you all to look at my (and erexere's to some extent) Wells St. part of the solution and use the info you have from downtown and see if it fits better or worse using Wells St. and City Hall

Is there a way to see only your posts in this topic? Or could you post a quick link to the solution you are referring to? I like the idea of Wells st. as beating of the world over any other possibility. Its definitely cold out so me traveling around will be less likely. If I end up on Wells though, I will happily take a look around. I just wish there was far more visual references to examine in this image. I believe had there been as many as the other images, we'd have solved this already.

A question for all you Milwaukee people: What's your "recognition image" going to be? One pattern that's starting to seem pretty likely at this point is that every image contains a very specific and very distinctive representation of something you'll see when you're right there at the final spot where the casque is buried. Preiss and Palencar put that in to give us a powerful "Aha" moment and to confirm that we're actually in the right place and ready to start digging. The recognition image isn't going to be something huge. It's not going to be an iconic image for a city. It's not going to be something you see everywhere. It's not going to be something that would be on a postcard. It's going to be something small and innocuous but still distinctive. Look at what we have so far: Chicago: the fence post Cleveland: the wall, the columns, and the actual garden bed San Francisco: the spiral on the stairway railing New York: the arched window divided into panels with four squares in the middle So what's it going to be in Milwaukee? A view of City Hall from a block away? Too iconic. A primrose? Too common. A pair of red spheres? Maybe, but it's awfully vague for a final confirmation. There are 18 pairs of red spheres on the Lake Park golf course alone. The only realistic possibilities for a final confirmation image are the key, the walking stick, and the millstone. If someone can show me a place in Milwaukee where there's a key or a cane on public display, I'll certainly be interested. But, failing that, we're down to the millstone for the final confirmation. That's why it baffles me that no one has (apparently) tried to dig near those trees at the foot of East Ravine Road. The route fits the verse perfectly (up the steps, into the culvert, down the path) and it's got the "recognition image" of the millstone right there at the end. I haven't seen it mentioned on this forum yet, but you could even make a case that the vent pipe by the millstone - the one that makes an upside-down "J" - is represented in the folds of the cape. Seriously, what more are you waiting for in a solution?

I think the large pattern on the interior of the cape is meant to look like a tree rotated 90 degrees, but its really the folds of a boot or some other garment on a statue. When I compared it to the low res image of the left boot of the Kozy monument it didnt look like a convincing match, so I've asked crashdome and some other contacts to take a photo of the right side of the statue just to be sure. I think its very possible its "under the boot" like the idiom "under the boot of imperialism".

Oreg. There was no letter on either of those trees. AP

animal painter wrote:: There was no letter on either of those trees. I'm not sure we actually know that. Do you have photos of those trees from 1981? (If so, please post them here. I haven't seen them.) But my question still remains: What is the "recognition image" from this painting going to be if not the millstone?

The tree forming the cape or the trees under the cape would be recognizable and not iconic. (Neither tree by the "millstone" was a birch.)

Where is the "verse/painting callback" in this one? That's what I want to know. There has to be something in the verse that tells you what you should be looking for, but I can't see anything in this verse that makes me look at the painting. Maybe they all don't work that way, this verse (more than many of the others) does seem like it would direct you to a dig spot on its own. While trees were definitely used as counting markers, and trees grow slowly, it's really tough to have tree barks translated into photos and hope those hold up for a while. A bad moss can ruin the hunt.

Callback: a verse based pointer to the nearest visual based clue? This notion doesn't happen in all puzzles. It may be evident with the few which are easier by design, but my theory which attempts a similar idea, that is it brings focus to the final component of the puzzle, it has to do with the first line. Preiss found a spot he liked after scouting and then tbought about how his spot could identify with the starting line of a verse poem. View the three stories of mitchell... Three. Stories. If you take the word stories as an alternative to "account", then you might identify a "bank" of three things. I believe the three benches in a row that use to exist next to the Kozy monument in the historic Mitchell neighborhood might meet this criteria. I've found a similar fit to the word LANE from verse 5. I found that I have exactly one place to go which allows free travel between "walls" of granite. I've found it works with verse 4 and 12 as well. I've beginning to feel real confidence in this process.

animal painter wrote:: The tree forming the cape or the trees under the cape would be recognizable and not iconic. animal painter wrote:: Neither tree by the "millstone" was a birch. Meh... I don't think so. There's not a huge range of appearances among tree trunks. They all look pretty much alike and it would be hard to tell them apart even if you had a photograph. (And the folds of the cape are far from photographic quality.) Plus there's the fact that tree trunks are constantly changing with growth and decay. Take a look at the recognition images I listed above. Not a one of them is biodegradable. Preiss chose features made of stone, glass, or steel, with distinct shapes and clean lines. That's what I'd say we should be looking for in Milwaukee too. True enough. But the verse doesn't say the final tree is a birch. It only says the first tree is a birch. The fifth tree is just the fifth tree. If I had to guess, I'd say that BP bought a small, cheap letter "G" at a hardware store and nailed it to the final tree to indicate which tree searchers should use once they spotted the "millstone." It took him two minutes to do it and, six months later, it took a park maintenance worker two minutes to remove it. And you'll never find the letter or any evidence it was there or anyone who remembers it being there. So don't waste your time with it. The casque was (is?) at the southern foot of either the locust or the ailanthus by the millstone. If you don't buy that then, again, what visual confirmation clue are you expecting to find when you reach the treasure site?

Well that's the "image callback" I'm looking for. "Seek the columns" "Fence and fixture" We know those two. The other image callbacks are "Land by the window" and some of us believe in Boston "Lit by lamplight" is one of them. That's 4 puzzles with this. In Image 12 it's been suggested that since the woman only has a shadow on one arm, the "in the shadow of the gray giant" line refers to the shadow in the image. Which would make 5. See where I'm going with this? "White stone close at hand" very likely means you'll be looking at a stone much like the white stone in that image. Possibly 6. SOMETHING other than walking directions has to tell you what to dig at. The Milwaukee painting is sparse, and the walking directions seem very direct, so maybe this one doesn't have it, but I'd want to rule it out, because it may point to the "dig here" image. I don't know why anyone expects "letter from wunderstone's hearth" to be a G because of Germany. I would expect a letter with an umlaut (ü) or an esszet (ß) which are instantly recognizable as being from Germany. The 2 solved "dig heres" are both depicted in the image (the wall and the fence/fixture) and are very very permanent. I doubt it's nailed to a tree, but that is pure gut speculation.

I think the "image callback" is in or on her cape. The top of the cape certainly looks like a tree - possibly the "proud tall 5th." Alternatively, if you look at the inside elbow of her left arm, you will see a letter S (or a number 5). I know everyone thinks the letter should be a "G," but that letter S could be near the treasure instead (and we just have the "G" solution incorrect). Finally, inside the cape there is definitely something going on. I know it has been suggested that it is a possible bootleg or another tree trunk, but I think it is something else, and probably something you see from the treasure ground. There is a definite pattern with bumps in 4 rows, with the bottom row having more bumps. It is not a cape, and it is not there by accident. Heck, if you turn it sideways, there is a letter J or a letter A. Although most of the picture is sparse, I think the bottom half is chock full of goodies. That symbol in her hair seems to have been figured out as a monument. Her collar is a cement pattern. There is a bird head in the lower left corner, I believe. Her neck line is very suspicious - I would not doubt that that is also some geographic outline. None of this is new. Just reminding people that it is not as sparse as we think. My bet is that the light blue part of the cape is the image callback. Sorry for not remembering this, but did we ever find a latitude/longitude in this one?

Egbert wrote:: Sorry for not remembering this, but did we ever find a latitude/longitude in this one? Not to my knowledge.

Maybe since this one has the rebus (and probably the easiest to spot iconic building) it doesn't have coordinates? The terminal tower isn't quite as distinctive (or massive in the image). It's not like the city is in doubt at this point, enough individual matches have been found. What's frustrating is that the internet didn't exist in a meaningful form for this hunt for 20 years, so it'd be very difficult to communicate about it, yet the puzzles don't all seem to work the same way anyway. I barely think having a solid methodology would help but we can't even nail that down.

Unknown: True enough. But the verse doesn't say the final tree is a birch. It only says the first tree is a birch. The fifth tree is just the fifth tree. Unknown: If I had to guess, I'd say that BP bought a small, cheap letter "G" at a hardware store and nailed it to the final tree to indicate which tree searchers should use once they spotted the "millstone." Unknown: If you don't buy that then, again, what visual confirmation clue are you expecting to find when you reach the treasure site? I agree with this. I'm not even sure the "pass three" had to be birches either, just three of something similar that you use as counters. Most likely they were trees though, as young trees are usually planted in groups. If you believe as I do that the FYB was at the base of the NLB Ravine, then this part of the verse is simply confirmation that you are in the right place once you come out of the woods (where one tree pretty much looks like the next), and gives you directions (staying west) and landmarks (pass three) to a distinctive dig spot (PTF). The spot is confirmed by the letter on the tree, and the multi trunked tree nearby, both of which are prominent features on the cape in the image. If you have a tree with a letter on it, you don't need the millstone, or anything else. You just need a shovel, and to know which way SE is. The letter (more likely carved into the tree than attached by Preiss as you suggest) is the confirmer. Had he not stumbled upon it, he more than likely would have looked for something equally distinctive in the area, rather than manipulate the treasure ground in such an obvious, and potentially transient manner. Asked and answered. But if the tree in question is gone...

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Asked and answered. But if the tree in question is gone... Well I think we're talking about two different things here: The verse tells us that there was "a letter from the country / Of wonderstone's hearth / On a proud, tall fifth." I think most of us agree that the "fifth" was a tree and the "letter" was some alphabetical letter. It might have been nailed or carved or spray painted or whatever. As you say, things on trees are potentially transient. The letter is almost certainly gone now. BUT what I was talking about a few days ago was what I call the "recognition image" at the casque site. I am reasonably sure at this point that each of the 12 images in The Secret contains some distinct, recognizable shape that we will see when we are standing right there at the casque site. The recognition image gives you the "Aha moment" that you're in the right place. And the recognition image is deliberately chosen to be something lasting, strong, and permanent, like a wall or a fence or a railing or a tall, arched window. There's no "letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth" in Image 10 (as far as I know) so the letter can be a clue but it can't be the recognition image. So, if you buy all of this, you're still left with the question of what the recognition image is going to be. I think Egbert has a point that the recognition image could be the indistinct shape inside the cape, if we find it in some sculpture or statue. But, failing that, the only thing that I can see being the recognition image in Image 10 is the millstone. And if that millstone thing at the base of East Ravine Road works with the directions in the verse, you've got a pretty powerful combination there.

But even looking at the recognition image how do you know what side to dig on if it's a circle? i'm not even asking you to answer that, more calling out that either 1) That isn't the recognition image 2) We're missing something that tells you or 3) Damn you, Byron Preiss. In Boston I have it down to standing ON TOP OF the recognition image, and my good friend who is going to help me dig and I are currently arguing on what side to dig. edit: I wish we had a real solution for Chicago. I know Four21 has been there, so he can possibly shed some light, but I've always deep down suspected that it was solved by people who lived there who solved enough clues but didn't solve the entire puzzle. Because even there BP had to send them a Polaroid. Were they missing the recognition image? Is there something MORE directly on top of the dig site than the Fence & Fixture to orient you? Or are the puzzles kind of crap?

Xieish wrote:: But even looking at the recognition image how do you know what side to dig on if it's a circle? Maybe "Aha Image" would be a better name for what I'm talking about. It doesn't tell you the precise dig spot. It just tell you that - Aha! - you're in the right area! But there will still be other clues that tell you where to dig. Look at the two examples we're sure about: The fence in Chicago and the wall in Cleveland. In both cases there were other clues in the verse that identified the dig spot. The Aha Images were just there to confirm the area. If I'm right about the other three areas where I've proposed solutions - San Francisco, St. Augustine, and New York - the Aha Image is anywhere from 10 to 25 feet away from the actual dig spot. (In New York it's 22 east steps "or more" away.) If the "millstone" at the base of East Ravine Road is the Aha Image for Milwaukee, it just confirms that the tree is very nearby. THAT'S why Preiss also had to put the bit in the verse about the "letter from the country / Of wonderstone's hearth" on the specific tree. If the letter is now gone (as I think most of us agree it is) we will just have to dig at the "southern foot" of the likely tree. But it's really down to either the locust or the (now gone) ailanthus. It seems pretty straightforward to try digging in those two spots.

erexere wrote:: I think the large pattern on the interior of the cape is meant to look like a tree rotated 90 degrees, but its really the folds of a boot or some other garment on a statue. When I compared it to the low res image of the left boot of the Kozy monument it didnt look like a convincing match, so I've asked crashdome and some other contacts to take a photo of the right side of the statue just to be sure. I think its very possible its "under the boot" like the idiom "under the boot of imperialism". Haven't posted in a while. Just peeking in from time to time to check the progression. (Not lurking to steal ideas so don't worry. No time to travel.) Just wanted to throw out an idea I had after reading erexere's post above. I always thought the image inside the cape was a tree. Then I began to think why do you need an image of a tree when the trunk of a tree is also in the image. Why two? Just one should be enough. Our "digging" tree or location confirmer if you will. So I now agree there is a possibility that the one inside the cape may be a statues legs (thanks Eric). Then I dug up some pics from when I searched Milwaukee. I don't have any great pics of Juneau but I think maybe his legs may be it. If you're on the south side of him where the relief is the same as the image, look up at his legs. They are parted, with the rifle he holds in between. In the correct location at the site it may match up to the cape. He has folds in his pants like the image and a ruffle on his left leg which may be the shadow going down the left leg in the image. Sorry I'm sending this from my phone so I can't post an image for you to visualize it but I will. Just food for thought. Just don't be so quick to dismiss an idea as I frequently see on this forum. ***Edit*** I said this before, but when I probed just south of the Juneau statue I thought I had it. Hit something about 2 feet down. Was pretty excited. Then I probed the whole length of the statue base and it was the same thing. Must be a concrete base underground all around the statue about 3 feet wide. So I thought it has to be the trees south of the statue but they have been dug up and replaced per the marker in the ground by the new trees. I probed to no avail. So if this is indeed the location it doesn't look good.

maybe the folds of elbows too.

Just a couple things to remind you all about.... First off, I do have confirmation from a tree expert at the Mitchell Gardens (yup that's been checked out too with some very interesting finds) that the image in the inside of the cape is what's known as a "clump birch" the expert said they normally grow with 3 trunks, this is obviously our "Pass 3" Whatever the upside down J shape in the middle of the clump birch in the image is may be of some significance, but you can clearly see it's a 3 trunk tree, to indicate that you aren't passing 3 trees, but 1 tree with 3 trunks. The image which some feel is a tree in the top of the cape, could also be waves along a shoreline. As Egbert said there are more things in the image, like the building in the neck, arrow on the forehead, bell in the hand, and some possibilities like the dark outline of what looks to be another bird with it's wings spread between the 2 images of trees in the cape. I have also found the likeness of bust on the Masonic building on Wells. The Juneau statue is a good guess, and was my focus of study initially (and now I know who was making prod holes :-) but it wasn't till recently that I figured out the bust on the side of the Juneau statue was possibly only a path confirmation and not the final ah ha. From that statue, looking at the relief on the side, just to your left you can see the Lincoln Memorial Bridge...so that's your bridge. Following the directions from there puts you in front of the War Memorial (just beyond the statue of Lincoln above you). Because the Calatrava building was constructed there, along with other developments, historical photo's will be required to see if a clump birch like the one in the image existed near there...from there, we can only hope he put it somewhere that wasn't constructed upon. Remember, if we take the verse somewhat literally on the instruction of walking from "under the bridge southeast" I have found only 2 places SO FAR in the DT area that would match up, and both are viable in the construct of what we know of these puzzles. One resides near a statue of Lincoln, the other is in a park in the middle of downtown. I am not 100% on either location yet, but I am convinced that seeing all the visuals along Wells St. gives me a strong indication that there is more to be seen downtown AND in the image. For those who missed here is the link to my earlier solution about half way down the page... viewtopic.php?f=32&t=773&start=390#p129509

Just checking in to say that DecibelNYC is right on with what I've been following. I'm keeping my options open yet but, his theory is also my strongest theory though I do have others. Some things I should note: the area south of the War memorial parking lot was a big open green area with trees and what I believe was a Flag pole. You can see it in the aerial images from 1985 I posted. I was literally standing on Wells & Milwaukee about an hour ago and I could, clear as day, see silently playing, the garage's neck pattern, AND city hall from there. It's one of those moments you think "yeah this is just too much of a coincidence." I feel like the distance covered to the War Memorial is a very long walk. Maybe someone can compare distance to one in Chicago? As much as this is the strongest of my theories and that since DecibelNYC confirms many of my thoughts as well, I just feel there is a few non-exacts (or missing info) in terms of the verses and the image that don't make me slam my fist down and go "By jove, I think we've got it!" Regarding the millstone: I just don't buy that he would use a millstone as part of indicating the city AND some obtuse city drainage access cover. Seems silly to me. Besides, where then is the walking stick? or the key? Regarding taking images in Kusco... probably wont happen this year. It's cold now and I also don't travel that way for work anymore. If I am near, I will try but, I will also say that I probably wont be able to see them. That statue is tall and I'd literally have to climb it to see the foot. Ironically, I'd probably get away with climbing it because it's not the nicest of parks lately and a cop isn't going to give a shit about some clumsy dude playing Tarzan unless there is a big gap in calls on his radio.

No worries crashdome. Dont bother climbing it. Just hold your cam high and snap a pic someday. If there are any benches nearby you might get a better angle. I think they're not there any longer.

Unknown: It's one of those moments you think "yeah this is just too much of a coincidence." Yes, yes, yes. I say this a lot these days to people, you have to build a case of "what is the probability that this is just a coincidence" because 32 years later we're unlikely to see a smoking gun. If it helps the "DIG HEAR" thing in my Boston solve is an obscure utility box. Fence and Fixture, etc. But how? It needs to tell you somehow what you should be looking at, shouldn't it? I can't find anything in the verse that ties in to the painting...

Crash, Don't give up on things because they don't make sense just yet. The first thing I saw in the Rebus was the walking stick as a putter, the key was a flag pin, the balls tee markers, and the milstone as the green...that all pointed to Golf Course....then I overlayed the map of lake park on the Rebus and I got the Flower as the staircase, the walking stick as the golf course, the key as the lighthouse, the balls as the ravine path and the millstone as the running track and I thought...it's a map...and so on...so just because something isn't obvious right away, it shouldn't be ruled out. I'd really like to see the 1985 picture you have of the area where the Calatrava is now. It would be nice (and painful) to see the clump birch in that area. I still feel there is more work to be done on this solution, but it's a good start.

Oh I haven't given up per se. I just feel a dig is near impossible if it was in a smaller city park. Also, using modern images is very sketchy. The aerial map is found on the city's website. There is a link I posted which can be found in the secret wiki now I see. It will take you right there. I've been using it to confirm buildings and surrounds of statues, etc.. the problem is it's still 3-4 years older than the initial hunt. Can't wait until the 1980 version is released. You can't identify trees but you can see their placement, their approximate age (size), and anything the size of a statue usually gives a nice shadow. It's helped me realize that as you walk down streets, the 1985 version had some similarities but also a lot of differences when viewed side-by-side with Google Maps. Some parking structures look different. Parking lots changed quite a bit, Shop signs, etc.. enough to maybe be missing a clue. Enough for me to want verify everything with historical photos or something similar.

Here are two images I just screen capped to show you how the entire south end of Lincoln Memorial Drive is completely different from 1985 to now. There isn't a spot of land that wouldn't have been regraded and trampled by large heavy machinery. So, if it was anywhere in these images, I fear it completely lost. That doesn't mean we can't solve where it would have been. here's the link again: hxxp://lio.milwaukeecounty.org/arcgis/r ... /MapServer Click the javascript link to zoom in

Well the verse makes a lot more sense now looking at this 1985 map. Great find Crash.

Wells St. didn't have a bridge in 1985, you can see they are building it....So if you were in front of the Pabst Theater, Woman with harpsichord, City Hall would be across the river at a distance in space. Yes Oregonian you can use that.

You would have to go to State St. to cross the bridge, walk past the laureate, and get to the fountain where BP took the picture of City Hall.

Im still thinking BP took the pic from the roof level of the parking garage.

decibalnyc wrote:: Wells St. didn't have a bridge in 1985, you can see they are building it....So if you were in front of the Pabst Theater, Woman with harpsichord, City Hall would be across the river at a distance in space. Yes Oregonian you can use that. I don't believe that's correct. This image shows them building the new bridge that raises up which is still in use. There was probably remnants of the old streetcar bridge prior but, I cant confirm either way.

Well I was wondering how you would see the lauriet....without a bridge on wells you would have to walk to state st. and cross there, that would put you in the place where BP took the City Hall shot. You would also see Red Arrow Park, which could also have been the compass, or the MSOE science building, putting the treasure grounds at Cathedral Square Park. As I said before this solution could use some more work.

This is why I get frustrated with some of the solutions. There is nothing confirming for certain the laureate (sp?) is even a clue. Sure the hair looks similar but it's not even the right shape exactly. When I first saw that, I thought it was an M. Very similar to the Brewer's logo of days past with the Wi in the hair next to it. I think trying to shoe-horn certain items into the solution is the wrong approach.

Well I always saw it as a representation of the Hone Bridge with the 3 piers from Jones Island next to it...which you would be able to see, very similar to how it's represented in the image, from the area of Juneau Park and the War Memorial....or even from the observation deck of city hall. I had to be convinced that it was the sculpture at the PAC, and I agree...it looks more like the Hoan than it does that sculpture. Still there are things un accounted for such as step on nature, cast in copper...this could be reference to the rainbow summer stage / park area with the penny fountain in front, kitty corner from City Hall. It could also be something totally different. History has changed Downtown much more than you would think, however...as far as bridges you can walk under...there are still not that many. I think Cathedral Square Park is a contender just because Kilbourn Ave used to be all stone pavers, and this would be the "rock and soil" You'll notice, if you've ever been under that bridge connecting the 2 MSOE buildings that there is a sewer drain directly under the bridge, and 100 paces SE from there does put you directly in that park.

Once again, one of the bridges in Lake Park is being repaired. They found cracks resulting from erosion of the ground at the "foot" of the bridge! hxxp://www.jsonline.com/news/milwaukee/ ... 03441.html

animal painter wrote:: Once again, one of the bridges in Lake Park is being repaired. Before I clicked on the link, I was just assuming that it would be the footbridge that the trucker tried to drive across. But, no! It's the footbridge over East Ravine Road. Go figure.

Hey folks, Now that we all have a better understanding of the Chicago puzzle, let's try to apply some of those lessons to the Milwaukee puzzle. Here's my list: Preiss included various iconic buildings from each city, even if they weren't close to the treasure spot. The water tower in Chicago is analogous to the City Hall in Milwaukee. Both help identify the city and the broad general area, but not a particular spot. Preiss included some obscure architectural design features, even if they weren't that close to the treasure spot. The pattern from the Carson, Pirie, Scott and Company Building in Chicago is analogous to the pattern from the parking garage in Milwaukee. Neither one is a nearby clue or even a step along the way. They're both just patterns that caught his eye. Preiss had an eye for art. He included the bit from the Great Lakes fountain in Chicago and the bit from Laureate in Milwaukee. They aren't particularly close to the treasure spots, but he liked the art. All of these downtown details, iconic and obscure, do not form a path. Preiss was just throwing in fun bits of design. That circular pattern from the Carson, Pirie, Scott and Company Building doesn't mean that you need to walk anywhere near it to find the casque. Preiss didn't choose a crowded, downtown area to bury the casque. He knew we would need some privacy to do the digging, so he didn't put the casques in the grassy, well-maintained areas where people are constantly walking. At the same time, Preiss didn't put the casques out in a wilderness. There are places that are more wooded and private in Grant Park, but Preiss knew that we needed some permanent, physical features nearby to locate the casque. So he put the casque beside a metal fence and a concrete path. That brings me directly to my next lesson. Each picture in The Secret includes a representation of some unremarkable, distinctive, and permanent physical feature near the treasure spot. The recognition feature is something that's going to be around for awhile but isn't remarkable enough to ever be on a postcard or in a book. In Chicago it's that bit of fence with the "halo." It's something you'll only see when you have walked right up to the spot. All of which leads me to repeat yet again: The Milwaukee casque is at the southern foot of either the locust or the (former) Tree-of-Heaven at the base of East Ravine Road. Here's the Google Street View . The spot matches the verse. It has the perfect balance of not-too-remote and not-too-maintained. And it has the recognition feature of the concrete disk. So would someone go dig the damn thing up already? Take a short-handled spading fork to loosen the soil, a short-handled trenching spade to dig a nice, neat hole, and a tarp to pile up the soil. Wear sturdy boots so you can drive the fork and spade into the ground. Go 6 inches out from each trunk to avoid the roots and then define a one-square foot area. Use the spade to cut around the square of turf and then lift it out and set it aside. A lesson we learned from Chicago is that you don't need to go very deep. Preiss may have gone three feet down, but the top of the casque box can't be more than two feet down. So you would need to dig out - at most - 2 cubic feet of soil beside one tree and 2 cubic feet of soil beside the other. It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes. I suppose it would be proper to get permission first, but in this case I honestly wouldn't bother. This isn't an archaeological site, like Roanoke or St. Augustine, and it's not a neatly-maintained public space like in Charleston. East Ravine Road is one long strip of Tree-of-Heaven (a nasty urban weed). As long as you carefully replace the soil from the tarp and then reposition the sod back in place on top, it shouldn't be visible to anyone that anything even happened. No harm done. Just do it. Dig tomorrow morning at sunrise and tell us the results by noon. If the casque isn't there, then we can rule out one theory and move on.

Oregonian wrote:: [*] Preiss included some obscure architectural design features, even if they weren't that close to the treasure spot. The pattern from the Carson, Pirie, Scott and Company Building in Chicago is analogous to the pattern from the parking garage in Milwaukee. Neither one is a nearby clue or even a step along the way. They're both just patterns that caught his eye. That is a huge and probably incorrect assumption on your part, The pattern from the building definitely was on that building however we have no idea what motifs were on many of the buildings along michigan that have since been torn down or renovated, and that motif made by that architecture firm could have been elsewhere. for instance here is a similar motif on Michigan, right above the M from M&B set in stone.

Oregonian wrote:: [*] All of these downtown details, iconic and obscure, do not form a path. Preiss was just throwing in fun bits of design. That circular pattern from the Carson, Pirie, Scott and Company Building doesn't mean that you need to walk anywhere near it to find the casque. And yet if you go to the Water tower, and follow the road in front of it in the direction the person is looking in the image the first park you come to is grant park and if you go to the Terminal Building and you follow the road in front of it in the direction the figure in the painting is looking the first park you come to is the one with the casque. you are correct some images are location confirmations and do not relate to the path, but the paths in Chicago and Cleveland are actually pretty obvious.

Oregonian wrote:: So would someone go dig the damn thing up already? A lesson we learned from Chicago is that you don't need to go very deep. Preiss may have gone three feet down, but the top of the casque box can't be more than two feet down. So you would need to dig out - at most - 2 cubic feet of soil beside one tree and 2 cubic feet of soil beside the other. It shouldn't take more than 30 minutes. I suppose it would be proper to get permission first, but in this case I honestly wouldn't bother. Seriously this tells me you haven't actually been out digging yourself. Firstly, Byron Priess was actually there when they dug up the chicago casque, and they dug a huge hole and still nearly missed finding it. Secondly I can't believe you are actually suggesting people go out and dig without getting permission first. Assuming you're wrong, and they don't find the casque, those actions could poison further digging in the area for everybody else.

Unknown: Firstly, Byron Priess was actually there when they dug up the chicago casque I don't think this is accurate. He gave them confirmation and encouragement, and later sent them the polaroid that he took of the dig spot when he buried the casque initially, but I don't remember anyone saying that he was actually on site while the dig was taking place. Where did you get this information?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I don't think this is accurate. He gave them confirmation and encouragement, and later sent them the polaroid that he took of the dig spot when he buried the casque initially, but I don't remember anyone saying that he was actually on site while the dig was taking place. Where did you get this information? well you could be right, but I thought that is how one of the people there reported it.

And I could be wrong. There is a lot of information on this forum. But I think I would have remembered this detail.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: And I could be wrong. There is a lot of information on this forum. But I think I would have remembered this detail. I went back through my personal notes and what I have written down, is " even with BP telling us where to dig, we almost missed it" I think I made the assumption that meant he was there.

It's going to remain unclear until we find another casque whether Preiss' design was flawed or the finders' missed some vital detail that would've pinpointed the dig spot. In Milwaukee, I think the verse is telling us that the casque is buried directly beneath the boot of Kosciusko. He has two feet that point south, whether it's his right or left boot, I'm not sure.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I went back through my personal notes and what I have written down, is " even with BP telling us where to dig, we almost missed it" I think I made the assumption that meant he was there. BP sent them a polaroid, that is what they meant by that statement...he wasn't there

Well we can go round and round on this, everyone thinks their theory is the one.... Heck I've had 5 theories now and I don't think any of them are correct. I think besides AP, I've spent more time on the ground here in Milwaukee than anyone. The verses are purposely vague...to a fault. One can make a compelling story out of assumptions with some effort, everyone on here should be defense attorneys. One thing we know is the verse will take you right to it. That is what we have in Lake Park TODAY...did that exist in another part of town in 1981...perhaps, but time isn't on our side. It would be an extreme irony to find another 92 steps somewhere...that is what I thought when I learned city hall had the same thing going to the belltower...then there is an image confirmation in the bell at the top...I'm sure all of us have looked at evidence in NOLA, Milwaukee, SF etc... of dual meanings found and you're saying "alright, what the hell is going on here." Truth is we have no idea if BP planned it this way, made it specifically vague so people would have to write him constantly...maybe he wanted to keep tabs on his baby so to speak...we have to follow all the leads at this point. Milwaukee is not the only city where the verse could apply to several things. What are the chances...when you look at the things represented in Image 10 and Verse 8, and how many of them can be found in different areas of the city. View the 3 stories of Mitchell Are you serious... just to make it more funny there are 3 things that could be the 3 stories of Mitchell. Also at one of them you can see the 3 stories from a monument called the Vieux (pronounced View) Monument. So why would you word it like that if not to mess with people. Also at this location there are 82 steps surrounding a sunken garden (TODAY there are 82...past pictures show different landscapes) AND a big tree with a G carved in it. Then Downtown is the Mansion where you find an image confirmation on the building if you look at it from Wells. Then all the way across town is the campus dorms with the Mitchell name...here we can follow the verse to almost an exact spot...so at this point you are just on the 1st line of the verse and you have 3 potential treasure grounds...and NO ONE thinks that is premeditated? I do. Anyways, I'll throw this out there in case someone wants to follow up. One thing you can see from the observation deck on city hall is the North Point Water Tower, which has a compass on it, and has some interesting architecture. Doesn't hurt to look at new leads...I don't know if this is what he meant by the compass, but lets say it is Here is the historic Water tower https://www.google.com/maps/place/Milwa ... 22b5417b84 Its not too far from Villa Terrace which is a place like the greek cultural gardens. https://www.google.com/maps/place/Milwa ... 22b5417b84 And this all connects to Back Bay Park which is also along the lakefront. Again these are loose theories, but as long as people are willing to look into them, I'll gladly post some of these old theories of mine. There are problems with all the solutions for Milwaukee, but I found over this last year, I have uncovered a lot through expanding the search and a lot of reading.

decibalnyc wrote:: One thing you can see from the observation deck on city hall is the North Point Water Tower, which has a compass on it, and has some interesting architecture. Hey that's really a cool tower, and we know BP liked water towers... What do you mean it has a compass on it?

maltedfalcon wrote:: Hey that's really a cool tower, and we know BP liked water towers... What do you mean it has a compass on it? i think he/she means the weather vain, i think thats what its called https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo_explore ... er=2601265 a 1982 report hxxp://www.city.milwaukee.gov/ImageLibr ... rTower.pdf

Just an aside...The North Point Water Tower had a sculpture of a dragon built around it in 1985 (temporarily). We drove down to the lake to see it...Little did I know that the casque had been buried only 3 years earlier... hxxp://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1 ... 68,7024858 Too bad BP never got to see the dragon...He certainly would have taken a picture of it for Palencar to include in image 10!

The Water tower has a vane on it which has NSEW points on it...but if you look from the overhead view, you'll see the landscape just south of it represents a compass. I spent some time trying to find image confirmations on the water tower as there is a lot of sculpture going on there. Then I noticed the Villa Terrace and back bay park. It's a cool little area on the east side, but it doesn't seem to fit the verse at all, so I dropped it. There were too many other things that fit closer to downtown, specifically the Masons building on Wells. Also as soon as you "pass the compass" you are fairly close to the treasure ground as that is where the specific instructions start. If you follow the verse from the top of the Grand Staircase it takes you to a specific spot where you then need to figure out the "pass 3." There is still more to look at...Crashdome posted an overhead map from 1984, perhaps we can locate some things on there..

Also I think this piece of information was overlooked...I found it insignificant, but one of my trips up the staircase, at the top, I noticed a lamp pole on 1 side that had a masons G square and compass on it. There are 2 lamp posts at the top of the staircase, both sitting on a planter box so the plaque with the G would be closer to eye level. The other pole only had a plate with no marking on it, an electrical tap probably. I think I read somewhere that those lamps were put in post 1981 so I disregarded it. Also if you do turn right at the top of the stairs instead of left, you pass the lawn bowling shack which has a weather vane on it. Also it was reported that the front lawn of the bistro used to have a statue of Christian Whal on it which was moved...it was a bust, I don't know if it had an inscription. Other than that, I saw nothing that was a clear "compass." I do find it funny that there is a North Point Water Tower as well as a lighthouse...again the dual meaning.

decibalnyc wrote:: Also I think this piece of information was overlooked...I found it insignificant, but one of my trips up the staircase, at the top, I noticed a lamp pole on 1 side that had a masons G square and compass on it. What staircase are you talking about here? Do you have a picture that shows the square and compass?

One of the 2 lamps at the top of the Lake Park grand staircase. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0684758 ... 5S4iFw!2e0 If you look close in this Gmap image you can see the one on the left, blocking one of the windows with the design on top. There is another on the right, but the trees are blocking it. One of these 2 lamps have the G on it like this... hxxp://www.creamcitycatholic.com/wp/wp- ... 1602-3.jpg The other just has a blank plate over it...I do remember someone telling me the harp lamps went into the park sans '81 otherwise I would have looked into it more.

Also, the culvert below Ravine Rd. Bridge was put in in 1992 in case anyone was looking at that.

decibalnyc wrote:: One of the 2 lamps at the top of the Lake Park grand staircase. ... The other just has a blank plate over it...I do remember someone telling me the harp lamps went into the park sans '81 otherwise I would have looked into it more. Oregonian wrote:: If Preiss really wanted us to climb the 92 steps and then walk to the lighthouse, I think he would have given that move at least a line of its own. (i.e. "After climbing the grand 200 / Take giant steps to the giant pole" or something like that.) The fact that he simply says "After climbing the grand 200 / Pass the compass" suggests to me that the compass was something small and incidental, right near the top of the steps. Maybe it was a sundial. Maybe it was a monument to the Masons. Who knows? It's probably gone now. But if we were to "Pass the compass and reach / The foot of the culvert / Below the bridge," then the logical bridge to look at would be the one that's right there at the top of the stairs: the bridge over Ravine Road. Good lord, I can't believe you're being so blasé about that! (And I can't believe you're only mentioning it now!) That's really a huge find! Way back in October, I wrote this: A little, metal sign with a Masonic compass right there at the top of the staircase is no coincidence. I don't care who told you that the lamps were post-'81. Either they're wrong or the earlier lamps had the same symbol. But, really, that settles it. There's no way you could "coincidentally" find what I was predicting would be there. The verse is clear now. Preiss was telling us to pass the lamp, go over the bridge with the two circles, and then enter the culvert that leads to the Locust Street Trail along East Ravine Road. After we go under the bridge, we go another 100 paces and then we see the first young birch (possibly gone now). We keep going and pass three more. And then, just as we get close to our recognition image - the millstone - we see the multi-trunked tree shown in the cape. That tree is probably gone now, but there might still be either a stump or a soft depression where the stump rotted away. And on the southern side of that (toward the road) is the casque. Anybody in Milwaukee feel like taking some pictures? I'd love to see a good shot of the Masonic compass on the lamppost and I'd love to see a LOT of shots of the ground to the west of the "millstone" on East Ravine Drive.

As I said, if it weren't there in 81 it wouldn't be that big of a deal. The info I got on the Harp Lamps came from 2 sources, "Lake Park Friends" who said the harp lamps were added in the 90's and when I talked to the supervisor at the Parks department (the same lady AP has been dealing with for 10 years) she confirmed that the harp lamps were a later addition. Also in the old photo's AP and I retrieved from the historical society you can clearly see the lamps were way different...some just had big opaque globes on them, and others were a curved 70's looking streetlamp. Even if the posts were there in 81 and only the fixtures were changed, the Masonic G would be on the south side of the staircase. The Ravine Rd. side is the post with the non marked plate. If the compass isn't the north point lighthouse in this scenario, then I would be looking at weather vanes or something else historical that would have been there in 81. Possibly the vane on the lawn bowling house.

decibalnyc wrote:: As I said, if it weren't there in 81 it wouldn't be that big of a deal. The info I got on the Harp Lamps came from 2 sources, "Lake Park Friends" who said the harp lamps were added in the 90's and when I talked to the supervisor at the Parks department (the same lady AP has been dealing with for 10 years) she confirmed that the harp lamps were a later addition. Also in the old photo's AP and I retrieved from the historical society you can clearly see the lamps were way different...some just had big opaque globes on them, and others were a curved 70's looking streetlamp. Even if the posts were there in 81 and only the fixtures were changed, the Masonic G would be on the south side of the staircase. The Ravine Rd. side is the post with the non marked plate. If the compass isn't the north point lighthouse in this scenario, then I would be looking at weather vanes or something else historical that would have been there in 81. Possibly the vane on the lawn bowling house. Still that is very cool! I never thought about a masonic symbol as the compass, but it totally makes sense. I always thought if he meant weather vane, he would have either said vane or wind-rose. but something like that totally fits. were there any masonic symbols on the stairway itself?

No the staircase itself is fairly plain, no decor at all, just concrete. There used to be a promenade attached to it overlooking the fifth mile track (which isn't tall or proud) but it was removed pre 1960. The Masonic G's are on most of the light posts in lake park, and along the lakefront. See I knew this thing was a conspiracy, the Freemasons have their hands in everything!

decibalnyc wrote:: Even if the posts were there in 81 and only the fixtures were changed, the Masonic G would be on the south side of the staircase. The Ravine Rd. side is the post with the non marked plate. Show us photos, pretty-pretty-please! Given the symmetry of the staircase, it seems very likely that the two lampposts were identical whenever they were installed. Is the unmarked plate the same size and shape as the compass plate? Maybe the compass plate on the north lamppost was lost or damaged during some maintenance and they put on a flat plate to replace it. Or, heck, maybe some absentminded electrician put that plate on backwards. I don't see the absence of the plate on the north lamppost as a big obstacle, if we still have the plate on the south post.

The next time I go down that way I will stop and grab a picture of the 2, but they both look like recent installations. It would be different if the insignia were in the stone of the lampost, but it's a plate. Without a photo of it from the 80's or someone credible to verify, it would be hard to tell if there were insignia's there or if they were added later. I still pose the question, where does the "Letter from the country..." come in to play on this scenario?

Also I thought about Step on nature Cast in copper What if this just means to cross the bridge over the river. The Milwaukee River like many of the rivers in Wisconsin, is a dark brown almost like a bronze or copper color. So when you cross the bridge you step on nature cast in copper. Just a thought. More probably in a downtown scenario it refers to a park with a penny fountain or bronze statue.

decibalnyc wrote:: I still pose the question, where does the "Letter from the country..." come in to play on this scenario? Oregonian wrote:: If I had to guess, I'd say that BP bought a small, cheap letter "G" at a hardware store and nailed it to the final tree to indicate which tree searchers should use once they spotted the "millstone." It took him two minutes to do it and, six months later, it took a park maintenance worker two minutes to remove it. And you'll never find the letter or any evidence it was there or anyone who remembers it being there. So don't waste your time with it. The casque was (is?) at the southern foot of either the locust or the ailanthus by the millstone. My response is the same as it was a month ago:

Oregonian wrote:: If I had to guess, I'd say that BP bought a small, cheap letter "G" at a hardware store and nailed it to the final tree to indicate which tree searchers should use once they spotted the "millstone." It took him two minutes to do it and, six months later, it took a park maintenance worker two minutes to remove it. And you'll never find the letter or any evidence it was there or anyone who remembers it being there. So don't waste your time with it. The casque was (is?) at the southern foot of either the locust or the ailanthus by the millstone. You've got to be kidding... I'm not trying to discount your work on this, but come on, even you must question that final solution. First off you have to provide a logical solution to the pass 3 and the PTF... at least find a way to confirm the birch tree there. If there is a clump birch, you should be able to pick it out on the overhead map crashdome posted by the shadow. Also I don't think BP would have picked and arbitrary tree and called it a Proud Tall Fifth, nor would he have affixed something that could be easily removed, there is no evidence of this in Cleveland or Chicago. If you can show me some kind of proof to tie in with that theory, I'll look deeper, but I've asked about that stone and if there were any birch trees near it or anything unusual and the answer from the 80 year old nature expert on the park was "no." I'm always willing to give the benefit of doubt...look for some evidence. hxxp://lio.milwaukeecounty.org/arcgis/r ... /MapServer

Well, I don't feel any deep need to convince you, but I think it's pretty much settled at this point. As I've already said several times, I don't think the final tree needs to be a birch. It just needs to be a tree within close sight of the "millstone." My money would be on the locust, but it could be the Ailanthus. Furthermore, I've never seen anything to suggest that Byron Preiss would know a birch tree if it bit him. He was a city kid from New York. (He may have thought he could identify a birch tree, but that doesn't mean he really could.) So here are the possibilities: There is a birch tree on the north side of the trail that we haven't been able to identify from Google Street View. There was once a birch tree on the south side of the trail that was cut down soon after 1981. Preiss thought he was burying the casque by a birch tree but it was actually some other kind of tree. Preiss never meant the "proud, tall fifth" to be a birch tree in the first place. He just meant a tree. Option A would be hard to test at this time of year, but it would be easy to resolve in the springtime if someone would just take a dozen photos and post them on Flickr. Options C & D would both lead us to the locust and the Ailanthus, and I think it would be pretty easy to test those theories by digging a one-square-foot hole at the "southern foot" of each tree. Option B is the one that could mess things up. After 30 years, there won't be any sign of a stump, and that nasty mess of Ailanthus along East Ravine Road will make it very hard to do any exploratory digging. So I keep coming back to the same conclusion: Start with the easiest solution first. Someone should take a short-handled trenching spade and a short-handled spading fork and go dig some exploratory holes at the southern foot of those two trees.

Maybe the flower in the juggling pattern is meant to be a plum blossom.

The trouble is your "simplest" solution involves BP basically choosing a spot and putting a dig here sign on a tree, rather then carefully crafting his solutions like the others. Hmmmmm probably not

Plum blossoms: I'm going for some remote type connection: Nutcracker = Sugar Plum Fairy = purple plum = Fair Folk's purple amethyst Nutcracker tool = divider/compass

whats the building at the top of the stairs and does it have a cornerstone? and is it a masonic cornerstone?

Sorry, erexere, our flower is a primrose -- in keeping with the birth flower theme. And, well, primroses .

forest_blight wrote:: Sorry, erexere, our flower is a primrose -- in keeping with the birth flower theme. And, well, primroses . Oh yes, the primrose has those characteristic notches. Thanks FB.

I was at Lake park twice this last week, and will probably head there again tomorrow. One thing I discovered on my last trip there was the stump of a birch tree along the trail that winds under the bridge, it's close to the top of the second set of stairs. I've been doing some reading on Lake Park trees lately, and found out that Lake Park is home to several "Champion" trees - trees that are the largest of there species in the state. Some of these trees are marked with plaques. Another discovery is that the stairs on the trail that goes up from the bottom of Ravine Rd to the top of the ravine near the bridge number 90, although some stairs have a lot of dirt built up around them so I may have miscounted by a few numbers, putting that staircase also within range of the staircase in the verse.

This one isn't THE lamppost being discussed, but it is one of them. There are a lot of these lampposts throughout the park. Another shot of the Millstone A shot of the Ailanthus stump The distance between the two

Just wanted to chime in and say that I, too, looked into the Back Bay area and thought about the little creek bed that runs through it and thought maybe a little foot bridge might exist below some staircase (92 stairs) but after checking it out I didn't see anything. Also looked into Villa Terrace but, every time I am nearby it is after hours. I thought maybe he went in and climbed the stairs upand passed some small artifacts to make up the remainder of the verse which would ultimately lead to a point outside of Villa Terrace. Again, led me nowhere. I am mentioning this just to more or less validate someone else's interest or doubt (not any specific one). Also, I want to know when it became necessary to find a millstone on the way to the dig site?

Unknown: Also, I want to know when it became necessary to find a millstone on the way to the dig site? I don't think that's ever been the case. The real question is whether the sewer cover at the base of East Ravine Road is a treasure ground marker, a treasure path identifier, or just coincidental. Since I think a tree with a letter on it (the PTF) would have been a clear and unambiguous treasure ground marker, and we are told to dig at "its southern foot" (a clearly defined dig spot), I think it's nothing more than a treasure path identifier at best (since no matter how we get to the base of the Grand Staircase, we pass right by this area on the way).

maltedfalcon wrote:: whats the building at the top of the stairs and does it have a cornerstone? and is it a masonic cornerstone? MF, The building at the top is the Lake Park Bistro, I think it used to be a country club of some kind before that. As you come up the stairs, there is nothing at all on the back side of that building that relates to anything in the image. There are 2 ways to go. The building blocks any line of sight to the lighthouse from there. If this is the top of the "grand 200" you are left with a couple of choices, which have often perplexed me in the sense of following a "liner path" via the verse. If you go right, you will see a bridge, but no compass. At one time (as I mentioned) I thought the "compass" could be the vane on the lawn bowling shack sending you right however you can't see it from the top of the stairs. Until I got the info on the lamp posts I even thought the Masonic compass, which would send you left must be it. Truth remains that even if the masonic symbol is the compass and it sends you left, you would arrive at the choice of 2 bridges to reach. When you get to the top of those stairs, there is really no indication of which way to go, and unless the verse tells you to turn, or the grand 200 line means something else...you are standing at the top of the stairs looking for a compass. If you take the bridge to mean the Ravine Rd. bridge, then you have to account for the "rock and soil" aspect of pacing from "below the bridge." You wouldn't be crossing rock and soil, you would be on pavement. If Lake Park is the correct spot, then we should assume the bridge in question is one of the Lion's bridges as the closest image match we have in the Image and Lake Park is the giant cottonwood tree in the clearing along LMD. At this point, on this solution, I think the search should be for the clump birch pictured in the cape...be it by the Lion's bridge OR by Ravine Rd. That clump birch is a good candidate for the "pass 3" and finding it would move this solution forward. If you look at the 2nd cottonwood tree from the south ravine, you'll see that it resembles the cape image much more than the cottonwood next to the south ravine does. https://www.dropbox.com/s/a88j5kiu3dykd ... 5.jpg?dl=0 The tree to the right in the above picture curves, as does the tree image on the top of the cape. Coming out of the north ravine, from that angle, that 2nd cottonwood has many similarities to the one in the image - much more so than the wider tree which was excavated. Is it as simple as choosing the wrong tree...possibly, but it still leaves the question of "letter from the country." We also must consider that the proud tall 5th could be a monument or something other than a tree, in which case a letter from the country could be any inscription tied to Germany. In any case, we need to find that clump birch somewhere, in some photo.

decibalnyc wrote:: If you take the bridge to mean the Ravine Rd. bridge, then you have to account for the "rock and soil" aspect of pacing from "below the bridge." You wouldn't be crossing rock and soil, you would be on pavement. Once you cross the East Ravine Road footbridge, the culvert on the far side leads directly down to the Locust Street Trail. That's why there's an image of a cicada nymph (a "locust") in Image 10. The Locust Street Trail goes below the bridge and heads southeast, over rock and soil and past the stump of at least one birch, on the way to the millstone. hxxp://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/86290075/Verse%2008

Ok but a couple things on that....first off the Masons compass is on the other side of the staircase, the north side is blank. Second the image that everyone is calling a locust is the stone archway on all of the city hall entrances.

decibalnyc wrote:: Second the image that everyone is calling a locust is the stone archway on all of the city hall entrances. Let's compare images and see which is a better fit. Here's my match for a cicada nymph: I see the segmented or banded rear section on the left, where it curves and tapers to a point. I see the flattened dorsal areas on the right. In the lower right I see the three pairs of legs, the oval eye, and the pointed snout. Seems like a perfect match to me. Can you post a photo of the stone archway so we can see a side-by-side comparison of that? Without a picture it's hard to imagine how an entrance archway could be asymmetrical like the drawing.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/h54tr3sth4455 ... t.jpg?dl=0

I have always seen it as a cicada, however a cicada is not even close to a locust. a Locust is a grasshopper,they are longer and skinnier and BP a NY native would know the difference. That part of the image looks nothing like a locust.

Interesting to note that cicadas were not out in that part of the United States during the the time the book was created . hxxp://www.magicicada.org/about/brood_p ... odXIII.php

If you stand in that archway, it's a whole different thing, those stones that go around the arch are fairly prominent ... Here's a better look

Also notice the color

maltedfalcon wrote:: I have always seen it as a cicada, however a cicada is not even close to a locust. Wikipedia : " Cicadas are often colloquially called locusts , although they are unrelated to true locusts, which are various species of swarming grasshopper." (emphasis added)

I know that BP is from NY. I also am from upstate NY And we did call the cicada "locust". The drawing in image 10 Is more like the "shell" that the cicada leaves behind when It emerges. The drawing doesn't have any wings...which an adult cicada does. The color is also right for the "shell".

We called them locusts in western NC in the '80s. Of course, now I know they are really cicadas. I think we've already had this conversation, back in January, 2006 and March, 2008 in this very thread. Check it out.

forest_blight wrote:: I think we've already had this conversation, back in January, 2006 and March, 2008 in this very thread. Yep. And we'll probably keep on having the same conversation every other year or so until we find someone in Milwaukee who is willing to do a proper investigation at the foot of the Locust Street Trail. Look folks, the forecast shows that the weather in Milwaukee tomorrow will be brisk and refreshing. There's a time in the early afternoon when the temperature might even reach the positive digits. So would someone please-pretty-please go out for a pleasant stroll and get us a series of good photographs showing the north side of Ravine Road from the millstone to the footbridge?? We need the photos taken now, in the dead of winter, because this is when we'll be able to see the stumps of the birch trees . Those historical street views on Google were all taken in the spring, summer, or fall. They just show a sea of Ailanthus . And photos taken later in the winter will probably just show a snowpack. But, right now, the trees are bare and the ground is bare and we can finally count how many birch stumps are found along that stretch. This is your chance to make that discovery. Carpe diem.

Unknown: I think we've already had this conversation, back in January, 2006 and March, 2008 in this very thread Put me in the cicada/locust camp. We have the triangle in the Cleveland image for Euclid Street, the Michigan nymph in the Chicago image for N/S Michigan Avenue, and now the cicada exuvia for East Locust Street. All three streets lead directly to the parks where the treasure was either found, or in this case, where it is presumed to be. Unfortunately, it does not appear that Preiss and Palencar followed this convention universally for the next nine images. Maybe Palencar lobbied for more creative flexibility. Or maybe Preiss felt the first set contained too much information, rendering the puzzles too easy to solve. Either way, and unfortunately for us, the pendulum swung too far in the other direction for the next three, as the New York, Boston, and Montreal puzzles have proven to be some of most difficult of the set, compared to the first three.

Theres no millstone as shown in the picture, it's a cement drainage sump with lid. [quote="Oregonian" [/quote]

Unknown: Theres no millstone as shown in the picture, it's a cement drainage sump with lid. Close enough to the image that I'm willing to give it a pass. What concerns me more is that even by his own reckoning, we pass right by it (even closer than on his map since we are more likely to be on the sidewalk than on the street), so why double back? That is, we can incorporate the lid into the solve without necessarily making it the dig spot confirmer.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Theres no millstone as shown in the picture, it's a cement drainage sump with lid. Really?? They're not grinding the Milwaukee wheat crop at the base of East Ravine Road??? I use "millstone" as shorthand for "concrete disk that resembles the millstone shown in Image 10." But, to be totally clear about it, I went back and added quotation marks around "millstone" in the map.

It may be critical to find a point of view in the landscape where your "millstone" idea matches the exact angle as its presented in the image. That spot might not be where the casque is found but it would hopefully give a clue towards perceiving the next step.

When I get back from my vacation in mid Feb, I will take pictures and GPR the area by Ravine Rd. for you. I am going out to take readings in other areas of Lake Park, I will stop by there and do that as well.

In case some of you don't follow verse 8... viewtopic.php?f=32&t=727&start=1095#p130152 I just posted a whole bunch of stuff over there (rather then on this board because the other one seems to be more active).

decibalnyc wrote:: This is a revised version of the post from last night. I have a little more time this morning to elaborate. View the three stories of Mitchell - Mitchell Mansion (now the Wisconsin Club) From the rear you can see this.... https://www.dropbox.com/s/tytindkcfljt3gt/MitchellMansionBack.jpg?dl=0 As you walk the beating of the world - This one Erexere figured out, referencing H.G. Wells "War of the worlds" - Walk down Wells St. The street you happen to be on while able to view this pattern from the Image. But which way do we walk... The W Wells St. side of the Wisconsin Club is the best fit for the pattern on the woman's collar, IMHO. hxxp://s11.photobucket.com/user/erexere ... x.png.html

Does anyone have any speculations about the blue (water?) on the hood of the cloak and how it goes down her right side and is around the red ball that is being juggled? Pretty sure it represents water but why only the red ball with the blue surrounding it and not other items in the rebus that are close to the ball? Its gotta mean something. About the hawk or eagle profile seen on the lower left corner... when I saw it I thought it looked a little bit like the eagle that we see on the post offices. I tried to find what their logo was back in the late 70's/ early 80's but wasn't able to find it. The one they use now is a bit similar. I don't know how that lines up with finding the treasure but it is where my mind went. I think there are eagles or hawks on St Johns Cathedral across from Cathedral Sq Park. I was there today and I'm sure everyone already knows about the Immigrant Mother statue. As for the bell shape in her hand, I found some bells around Pere Marquette park while in the area last week. I posted links to Google Earth on the Verse 8 thread as it seems to be more active. Someone mentioned seeing the number 15 on the sleeve and I believe city hall has 15 floors.

Lady Poverty wrote:: Does anyone have any speculations about the blue (water?) on the hood of the cloak and how it goes down her right side and is around the red ball that is being juggled? Pretty sure it represents water but why only the red ball with the blue surrounding it and not other items in the rebus that are close to the ball? Its gotta mean something. That halo seems to just be a technique that Palencar uses in much of his art, beyond where he uses it in multiple images for The Secret:

Merlot Are those from the treasure hunt? What cities? I do not recognize them from this site. I do not have the actual book though either. the blue on the cloak seems to be a body of water of some sort. And why only selected items with the halos and not all of them? Seems like so much of the image is meant to be interpretive and I am hesitant to write off the blue as artistic style.

I thank Merlot for several observations. We have to remember that JJP wasnt the design god of this hunt. He painted what was given to him in the form of polaroids and descriptions. A blue color could mean water, but then there's water all over the place. We have to exercise some restraint when drawing specific conclusions from generic details. We know theres several options for 3 stories of Mitchell. We should be asking which one makes the most sense to the dwarven/German puzzle. The Deutscher/Wisconsin Club (was A. Mitchell's residence) seems like a better fit than the University's Mitchell Hall or the three Domes from a cultural specific point of view.

So do you think that the shape of the blue on the hood of our lady's cloak is a generic detail? I certainly don't. Just because I don't know what it is I still see it as highly likely to be important and helpful to a solution. Sounds like you have many in depth theroys that are over my head. Like I said I don't have a copy of the book unfortunately and I don't yet understand how the talk of HG Wells started or why it is important. Not asking you to explain it but I'm personally not there yet.

I havent found a fit for the blue cowl. I dont trust that the color blue is being used to hint of water. I'm not compelled to look for an aerial map contour at this point. Im happy to discuss any details of my ttheories which have changed much along the way. The H.G. Wells idea was a late evolution. The reference to distance in space and time had me thinking about the Time Machine as a possible literary reference something like how Melville was used in Houston. The beating of the world line then caught hold better as reference to either War of the Worlds or WWII, than a reference to the Kenwood kitchen mixer as a street name clue. I feel that the two best location fits are Wisconsin Club and a spot north of City Hall where the two spires can be seen just as depicted. From there it seems to "leap" somewhere far away on the map. The only explanation I have involves taking a compass heading of 200 degrees and using a spanner to "step" across the map of Milwaukee, taking us to an area about 3 miles away or the distance one would travel on foot in about 1hour.

Lady Poverty wrote:: Merlot Are those from the treasure hunt? What cities? I do not recognize them from this site. I do not have the actual book though either. the blue on the cloak seems to be a body of water of some sort. And why only selected items with the halos and not all of them? Seems like so much of the image is meant to be interpretive and I am hesitant to write off the blue as artistic style. No. Those are just other examples of Palencar's artwork to demonstrate that this is a common stylistic technique that he regularly uses with his art. Incidentally, as far as the actual hunt is concerned, he does the exact same thing in Image 1, Image 3, Image 4, and image 12.

Since Milwaukee's getting new life, figured I'd just repost these

Yes, that is definitely an image confirmer of Milwaukee"s Lakefront memorial. BP certainly handed JJP a photo of that statue base.

Is there a list of strong references to Solomon Juneau in the city? Street named after him right?

City Hall's bell is named "Solomon Juneau". City Hall and a bell, both in the image. Plus the statue relief. Hard not to suspect this area. And... Do Re Mi Fa So/Sol La Ti Do. The "fifth" note of scale is So or Sol. Sol is a nickname short for Solomon. Just some forgotten ideas to ponder.

Actually if you were trying to force fit that Juneau statue, the fact that he was a Leo, and that is the 5th sign of the zodiac is a better "force fit" than Doe Rae Mi

erexere wrote:: Is there a list of strong references to Solomon Juneau in the city? Street named after him right? Deuce wrote:: City Hall's bell is named "Solomon Juneau". City Hall and a bell, both in the image. Plus the statue relief. Hard not to suspect this area. And... Do Re Mi Fa So/Sol La Ti Do. The "fifth" note of scale is So or Sol. Sol is a nickname short for Solomon. Just some forgotten ideas to ponder. decibalnyc wrote:: Actually if you were trying to force fit that Juneau statue, the fact that he was a Leo, and that is the 5th sign of the zodiac is a better "force fit" than Doe Rae Mi How about this for a "force fit"... The "Solomon Juneau" bell was silenced in 1925 by mayor Daniel Webster Hoan. He was the mayor as well as the city attorney for some time. Where else have we seen an attorney named Daniel Webster? Check the book. Alibi Elf, pages 126-128, referencing "The Devil and Daniel Webster", a retold German tale. Look at both pictures for Alibi Elf. Each picture has a person with the same general arm position as image 10 and the Juneau statue relief, just reversed. Both are even holding papers like the relief. Now look at page 127. The elf is actually pointing to the briefcase where we see the letters C. G. E., the biggest letter being the C. In music, a C major chord is the notes C E and G, with G being called "perfect fifth". The C major scale is C D E F G A B. Note that G is the "fifth" note. And it might just be coincidence that when the bell did ring it was in the note of G.

that's awesome.

I think its great to talk about the Solomon Juneau connection, but its just a drop in the bucket with many other visual and verse points to reconcile. Its nice to have a unique and non-obscure clue to work with. The question we should be asking is what next or what options does this place on a map give us? I'm a fan of marking the points on a map, because it allows us a compass (draft) calibration and a simple means to build a course of navigation.

This is really interesting to me. I'm assessing the distances from point to point using the distance tool on Wikimapia. The Wisconsin Club to the spot where you can view the spires of City Hall as depicted (top level of a parking garage which was existing in 1982) is the same distance away from the Solomon Juneau statue at the end of Wells St. It would be very cool if someone in Milwaukee would be willing to take a photo of City Hall from the top level (3rd level?) of the parking garage on State St. Then we can compare that to the illustration.

I apologize but I am not following. Why take the picture from inside that parking structure? I was pretty certain that to get the same look as the shadow in the figure you needed to be between Kilbourn and State St. However, I think I don't have much going on this weekend that I could probably do it for you. In fact, last weekend I was all over again and took more pictures. Figured I could upload them and let people just take a look at things.

Hey Savral, thanks. I dont have much in the way of an explanation. If there is a specific reason to ascend to the top of a structure, I'm left with guessing that is what a dwarf or anyone might do when wanting to have a better view of things at a distance. Theres surely a structure to this particular puzzle that focuses on the number three. My favorite conclusion is that three miles walked in one hour (a league) is a distance traveled as the intent for the references to space and then time, but also a hint for Wells. I think its vital that we understand why each piece fits. Theres an oversimplifying perspective that ever clue is some absolute physical place of reference. Thats the scavenger hunt mentality that is unwilling to see how ideas are formed. Thats the biggest reason aside from having to navigate vagueness that has prevented people from grasping the motives of the author. Thats why his help to the Chicago finders allowed people to assume otherwise. I now recall that the view of City Hall at street level from the corner of State St. isnt perfect. It looks to me that you have to move a little to the west to get the parallax right, but that means a building obstructs view, which makes climbing to thr top of the parking structure a good idea. I would love for a local person to verify.

Ooo, here's an idea. The two spires of City Hall are DIFFERENT height. In the image they are depicted from a perspective where they are seen as equal height. This parallels the most obvious difference between dwarf and standard height. How does this utilization of perspective build to a conclusion for finding the casque?

Unknown: Lake Park is located on land the known history of which stretches back into antiquity. A prehistoric Indian Mound reminds today's park visitor of the original inhabitants of the area. Although we do not know who built this mound, it is believed to have been peoples of the Mid-Woodland Culture (300BC-400AD), primarily hunter-gatherers who constructed mounds as burial or ceremonial centers. Originally one of a series of conical mounds that were later destroyed (some even in the development of the park), this single mound is the last known remaining within the city of Milwaukee. Random thought...I was just flipping through some stuff about the history of Lake Park and came across the Indian burial mounds. I don't think they've been mentioned much, but in view of Seloy etc (sorry, cover your ears Erexere) it sounds like the kind of thing that might have drawn BP's attention. hxxp://lakeparkfriends.com.previewc28.c ... tory.shtml Info on the plaque here...I never really got the locust thing, but it's just over from the end of Locust St. hxxp://wisconsinhistoricalmarkers.blogs ... mound.html Amethyst candidate...?

Whiterabbit, I've enjoyed some of your ideas, but this isn't one of them. The sorts of things that drew BPs attention are still a big mystery. SELOY in St. Augustine is a remarkable discovery, but that too is mysterious and contraversial. IMHK, the better question to ask is what would've interested BP in his attempt to meet the perspective of the dwarves. I dont buy into the locust connection while stronger visual elements are without reconciliation.

...nah, you're right. Just brainstorming...;-)

Go Ducks!

I thought of a reason for using a juggler. It may involve the correlation to any other activity that involves throwing objects ts in the air. One might consider a team sport such as football. Wisconsin's football team is the Green Bay Packers. The reason they are called packers has its origin in the meat industry, which could help point the way to John Plankington and Fred Layton. I like the football association also for the way the two spires of city hall in the distance could be seen as the two arms of a football goal post.

I'm not really holding out for a reference to the big letter G logo of the Green Bay Packers as a candidate for the "you'll see a letter from the country" and some connection to other prominent citizens of Milwaukee like Alexander Mitchell, such as Plankington and Layton, who were involved in a growing their meat packing business. There's a big disconnect there since the Packers weren't based in Milwaukee and were founded by funds from different owners of a meat packing company in Delware. Moving on to a different approach, I've thought about applying other considerations to the juggler in the image. She juggles 2 normal looking juggling balls, but then there's a collection of other objects mixed in. We might want to take the view that she is using magic/illusion to transform the balls into objects. Maybe that's a way to perceive her as performing tricks. Actually, jugging in general seems like a good reference to tricks. That perspective would go along with my analysis of the verse that it has something to do with playing cards. The games of bridge or whist involve "taking tricks". Another thought, perhaps she's COLLECTING objects. That's actually a simple idea. She starts with two red balls and then collects objects of interest. This would support my theory that "cast in copper" and "first young birch" might connect to the US Coinage Act of 1792 when the first "birch pennies" were made. I really like this application for "first young birch", which I believe doubles as a need to find an actual birch tree. (fyi, an earlier pre-birch penny was developed five years prior by Benjamin Franklin, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fugio_Cent , it was kind of cool, featuring a sundial and the phrase "mind your business".) Along with the connection to collecting coins, I thought the line "you'll see a letter from the country" could be a reference to stamp collecting. The US Postal Act was also passed in 1792 and I began cross referencing various statues/monuments in Milwaukee for being featured on a US Stamp. The one that I found most suitable to my theories so far is the 5-cent Thaddeus Kosciuszko stamp which was initiated by the Wisconsin Legislature and created in 1933. So forget football, I think this puzzle has something to do with coin and stamp collecting. I like the way the birch penny and a 5-cent stamp correlate to the idea of finding one birch tree, passing three, and seeing a proud tall fifth. Edit: note to catherwood, I apologize for many posts in the past where I've inserted images and since you've asked that we use clickable links whenever possible, I have done a poor job respecting your request.

Thinking that the City Hall is the basis for the image being oriented as a south facing perspective, I think the tree in the cape (whether a real tree or not) is designed to show us a placement of the jewel at it's southern foot. Here's my Link .

"This post was made by erexere who is currently on your ignore list." "This post was made by erexere who is currently on your ignore list." "This post was made by erexere who is currently on your ignore list." "This post was made by erexere who is currently on your ignore list."

Egbert wrote:: "This post was made by erexere who is currently on your ignore list." "This post was made by erexere who is currently on your ignore list." "This post was made by erexere who is currently on your ignore list." "This post was made by erexere who is currently on your ignore list." "I found a casque and now I'm a troll because," A) auto-ignorance makes me happy B) you can be like me if you just believe C) I once had a heart, but now I'm a tinman D) pater est quem nuptiae demonstrant E) I'm trapped in a bunker with Kelvin

See you in another life, brother.

OK back to business.... Have you all seen how JJP used overhead maps to craft his images....

Many people who consider the Laureate sculpture a clue depicted in the image regard it as a mere point on a map and nothing more. My opinion is that some clues are more significant than others in terms of demonstrating a motif. Some clues might just be surface level geographic points on a path. In case this isn't one of those, I'd like to consider the name of the sculpture is possibly the motif we need to understand in order to link the clues to the destination as intended. The word "laureate" basically means "one who is adorned by a laurel wreath". Laureate generally associates with distinguishing someone for their literary or scientific achievement, and also for heroism. This clue would be helpful if the puzzle requires identifying a particular poet or military person. If you like the Lake Park theory, then General Wolcott is a good statue choice. I like the Kościuszko Park theory, which would help identify the Tadeusz Kościuszko statue.

It's odd that this Wisconsin initiated joint resolution #34 proposes that the stamp of Thaddeus Kosciuszko be valued at 3 cents when it's in fact a 5 cent stamp. A cool idea would be to use this suggestion that Thaddeus himself is the postage on the casque, "the treasure waits," because it's waiting for a mail carrier to pick it up as they would when arriving at a mailbox with it's flag in the upright position. Thaddeus on his horse is a very tall statue and his right arm is raised up high with his sword. Perhaps this is the fair folks impression of a fancy Polish mailbox...

Nothing new, but it took me a while to find this again, so I wanted to put it here for reference. 1981 Milwaukee Tree Walk

Does anyone still think there is a "February" theme?

nemers wrote:: Does anyone still think there is a "February" theme? I think February, being recognized as the shortest month, is part of the reason why Preiss chose the Amethyst as a jewel for the dwarves...being short and all.

I believe I'm ready to let loose a solve for MKE. Its not on my agenda to go and do the dig myself, so its up to anyone here who would like to contact me for the details. If nobody wants to jump at the opportunity, I'll just do the usual and put the info all together in a post here so it can be scrutinized and gather dust.

On a standard map of Milwaukee where the scale is about 1inch = .71 miles, a few key factors led me to take a 200 degree compass walk from the area near 2nd and Grand (200-block) to the vicinity of Kosy Park approx. 3 miles away. I like that overall distance for its being a distance walked in 1-hour, the unit known as a League, "a distance in time." I like how the dwarven puzzle would involve using tools on a map. I also like thinking of the juggler as a collector of objects. This is why I think theres a strong relationship to be understood when looking for birch trees, four of which are found along the west side of Kosy Park. This has been verified. They are also much older than 35 years in age. The strong relationship I speak of involves denominations of money and postage stamps. The early 1-cent pennies, after the Ben Franklin "Fugio" design, were known as the "Birch" penny, named for its designer, the primary feature being a circle of laurels. Could also be why the "Laureate" sculpture was selected as a hidden shape in the juggler's hair. Then there was a 5c Wisconsin stamp featuring Thaddeus Kosciuszko. I think hus statue is the proud, tall fifth, for being discoverable after a path of 4 birch trees and being a 5c stamp, fitting the "you'll see a letter from the country [Poland]" since letters are generally sent with a stamp. 5-birch pennies = 5 cents = 5c Kosy stamp. At the southern foot, IMHO, is a simple instruction to dig in the grass area 1-foot south aligned with the hoof of the horse statue. Notice how the hoof is an exact match for the shape in the juggler's hand -some people think its a bell.

Hello, I apologize if this has already been mentioned. I had a chance to walk through Lake Park recently, and spent some time walking through all three ravine trails. The North Lighthouse trail appeared to be spot on in terms of the final verses. Access to the base of the bridges on the two other trails (Locust, S. Lighthouse) would put one in "the culvert" already so mentioning the culvert would seem rundundant. The N. Lighthouse trail is the only way to "pass the compass" (unlike the South Lighthouse trail which has an access path in front of the lighthouse), reach the culvert, and then start the 100 paces from below the bridge. BTW, my walk was almost 100 paces exactly from the bridge to N. Lighthouse Trail sign. The other point I wanted to mention was that there is an exact match of the mill stone in image 10 with a stone drain at the bottom the N. Lighthouse trail.

Wonder if this waterpark was in Milwaukee in 1982...or the Red ball boundary...they look awfully similar to the juggling balls in the image. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0330545 ... 4352?hl=en

Huh.

First published in 1987, so it couldn't have been an inspiration for P10, but it's still a neat resemblance.

https://g.co/kgs/9NcGFQ

jayheedan1 wrote:: Wonder if this waterpark was in Milwaukee in 1982...or the Red ball boundary...they look awfully similar to the juggling balls in the image. https://www.google.com/maps/@43.0330545 ... 4352?hl=en As a heads up that’s not a water park it’s the Summerfest grounds. That water spot was just put in within the last 10 years.

Let's wake this thread back up. After watching Josh dig at the base of one of the lions on the bridge, I was hooked. But after seeing the "solve" photo of the location of the "millstone" in Lake Park, I'm curious how many of you have dug this area? As I look at the image, it appears that he is showing the casque to be on the SW side of the sewer stone. But that seems to be to obvious and I'm sure this has been thoroughly searched. I saw someone question the meaning of the shape of the blue cloak over her head. I believe this is the outline of Lake Park and Lake Michigan. As for the verse, You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth The cement sewer (wonder stone's hearth) is in the shape of the letter "O" and the letter "O" is in the word country. I think Byron was just sit being playful with these lines in the verse. MrBackstop

You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth At its southern foot The treasure waits. The "letter" is seen on the "proud tall fifth".

I see what you're saying but I read it like this with this punctuation: You'll see a letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth. On a proud, tall fifth, at its southern foot, the treasure waits. I believe the proud tall fifth was the 5th birch tree.

MrBackstop wrote:: I see what you're saying but I read it like this with this punctuation: You'll see a letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth. On a proud, tall fifth, at its southern foot, the treasure waits. I believe the proud tall fifth was the 5th birch tree. I know that BP expected these to be found quickly, but I am still SMH that he would use trees as guideposts for any of these puzzles.

MrBackstop wrote:: I see what you're saying but I read it like this with this punctuation: You'll see a letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth. On a proud, tall fifth, at its southern foot, the treasure waits. I believe the proud tall fifth was the 5th birch tree. In this interpretation, what is the purpose of the word "on"? Phrased differently, what is on the proud, tall fifth? I'm not saying these are perfect verses by any means, but it seems like we're supposed to be able to identify something "on" a proud tall fifth. Otherwise, why include the word "On" at all?

gManTexas wrote:: I know that BP expected these to be found quickly, but I am still SMH that he would use trees as guideposts for any of these puzzles. I see what you're saying and I've only been aware of these "secrets" for a week now. But keep in mind BP thought these would be found in a few years and I haven't studied enough of these verses yet to see if trees are evident in other clues. He may have also been aware that many birch trees can live for 200 years or more.

MrBackstop wrote:: I see what you're saying and I've only been aware of these "secrets" for a week now. But keep in mind BP thought these would be found in a few years and I haven't studied enough of these verses yet to see if trees are evident in other clues. He may have also been aware that many birch trees can live for 200 years or more. Yeah most of them have some sort of clue like that. Hell the one is St. Augustine wants me to look for 'tall grass'

How many lions are there?

Eight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Stone_Lions Always liked the lion foot theory.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Eight. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Stone_Lions Always liked the lion foot theory. Wouldn't it be the 5th lion then?

JoshCornell wrote:: F**k YES!! I solved it! Let me save you the trouble.

Juggling is the clue. What juggling term is in the verse.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Let me save you the trouble.

Hello, I am new to this forum, but not new to the search. My focus has been on a different city/verse/picture, but I did notice something after looking at this image and watching the travel channel episode. This may have been mentioned before, and may mean nothing and is unrelated to the solution. But, I noticed that the city was selected by the objects that were being juggled. Mill Walk Key It does seem that the other words are related to each other as well. Mill(STONE) Walking (STICK) (SKELETON) Key Sticks and stones and bones? Reminds me of a childhood saying. Again, possibly already stated (if so, I apologize), possibly unrelated, but I thought I would share the thought. Best of luck to those searching for this casque.

JoshCornell wrote:: JUST GOT THE SILENTLY PLAYING CLUE....so good...so hard. I assumed that SILENTLY PLAYING referred to going passed the lawn bowling club. Is that what you got Josh?

Okay, gotcha...that makes a lot of sense. I gotta get to work on some other areas on this one and come up with options. I'll be going to Milwaukee sometime this year to catch a Brewer's game. And you may ask why would someone from Cincinnati do that? One of my players (I'm a pitching instructor), who used to work for me pitches for the Brewers, a young player named Brent Suter. If nobody finds the treasure I might add a day to my baseball trip.

Who's Renner? That was the guy with Gates?

Goldengate wrote:: "Tag along." Like i said: so much good will. You are a pious and good king genius, aren't you? I can't speak for the journalists and doc TV producers you've contacted about following your imminent victories, but I'm a producer who often screens interview subjects for production -- and after reviewing your litany of self serving, bloviating posts, don't expect your phone to be ringing off the hook. Sorry, but I'll be sure to schedule a root canal for the day you triumphantly dig up the San Francisco cache. That way I'll be assured to be in more enjoyable company. You've done a lot of work on following the clues, Josh, I won't take that away from you. I think much of your work is interesting and I honestly believe you have the potential to be a positive contributor to this community. But maybe it's time to work on yourself. Despite your old account having been blocked by the admins, you took the time to sign up again with a new name so you could remain part of this community. Why do you try so hard to be a part of a group you claim to have no need of -- especially one that wants nothing to do with you? Nothing would make me happier than to cheer you on, Josh. But right now, while you will get "congratulations" if you find a casque, you certainly will have not have earned respect. BOOM! What you said!

Has anybody looked at the southern foot of Wolcott yet? Would love to see this one dug up! You pass the par 3 to get to him, and staying west on the trail, you will see a letter "W" and "Country" on his statue. Also, he is a "Brig Gen," as etched in stone below him... a 1 out of 5 start general (proud tall fifth). There's even two "Tees" in his name, just like the tee balls on the par 3 (she's jugglin' them in the image). The face of the lady can be seen in the lions right there too. You then just have to follow the 100 paces through the ravine and out of the park. Maybe this path is just "juggled" up.

So, we all know how to walk to the 92 steps from Mitchell Hall down Kenwood and Lincoln, but once we go up them, Preiss seems to skip the entire middle section of the park (circled red on the map), and then just give us directions out (pass the compass, below the bridge, etc). When he gives us the last part (pass three, stay west, letter, country, fifth, foot), they are nowhere to be found. Maybe he just juggled the verse in parts, and it is describing the walk from the top of the 92 steps, down the Bicentennial Trail (grand 200), passing three (par course), where on the west side of the path you see the letter (W) and the country (Country) on the mantle of the fifth (Wolcott)... Two "T" markers.... get it? Just juggle the two chunks of the verse to make it read like a straight walk through the park, with directions to dig at the southern foot of Wolcott. Horse hoof on the southern side? A place to wait right there?

I like your thinking. I think a lot of the verses are shuffled to make things a bit more difficult. Not sure why we would receive instructions to leave after finding the casque though.

gManTexas wrote:: Not sure why we would receive instructions to leave after finding the casque though. There is a lot we don't understand in these puzzles, but this is consistent with the end of the verse in Chicago (seek brush and music - out of the park after leaving) and Cleveland (seek the columns - on the other side of the wall leaving the park), right?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: There is a lot we don't understand in these puzzles, but this is consistent with the end of the verse in Chicago (seek brush and music - out of the park after leaving) and Cleveland (seek the columns - on the other side of the wall leaving the park), right? I don't see that as being consistent among the verses. What I see is jumbled verses.

gManTexas wrote:: I don't see that as being consistent among the verses. What I see is jumbled verses. What you see is whatever you want to see. What you read is whatever you want to read. What you believe is whatever you want to believe. That's the problem

Hirudiniforme wrote:: What you see is whatever you want to see. What you read is whatever you want to read. What you believe is whatever you want to believe. That's the problem I suppose this is why this damn thing is still going after 36 years.

gManTexas wrote:: Not much, but the arch could have been inspiration for JJP. True...then again, so could these ...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: There is a growing tendency on this forum for people to pick places they like and then find extremely unlikely and desperate verse interpretetations to make it fit. (Well, heck, maybe we always did that. But I can tell you there's no mileage in it.) I have no idea what you're talking about. This is where my solve took me, it fits the Image and Verse.

Unknown: It's trying to go somewhere, that's the problem! What if you weren't? What if you were content to drive around in circles endlessly? What would that look like? Yeah, pretty much just like this.

MrBackstop wrote:: I have no idea what you're talking about. This is where my solve took me, it fits the Image and Verse. OK, sorry, let me start again. I don't believe that a water tower with five turrents could be described as a "proud fifth". That makes no sense. A fifth isn't five of something; it's one of five.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: OK, sorry, let me start again. I don't believe that a water tower with five turrents could be described as a "proud fifth". That makes no sense. A fifth isn't five of something; it's one of five. That's cause he's not trying to make sense.

Y'know, I take it all back. Anything is possible.

MrBackstop wrote:: You'll see a letter from the country - There is a letter "M" at the top of the tower on all 4 sides. Of course this stands for Milwaukee but is also a letter in the middle of the Country represented, GERMANY. Of wonderstone's hearth - This is in reference to the North Point Water Tower. It is carved out of some stone with a very rough texture. This is the wonderstone. The hearth is the actual Water Tower itself which acts like a chimney ( hearth ). MrBackstop This is where you lost me: Are you saying the letter M represents Germany? Rough stone = wonderstone? I liked the solve up until this point

Unknown: Anything is possible. True. But around here, it's better to deal in the probable. And the most likely explanation for what is going on is that the Forum is being trolled.

I apologize to all those veterans who clearly have already figured the Milwaukee Image. And congrats to each of you....I didn't know you already found it and dug it up. At least share your successes with all of us so we can join in your celebration of digging up the 3rd casque.

MrBackstop wrote:: I apologize to all those veterans who clearly have already figured the Milwaukee Image. And congrats to each of you....I didn't know you already found it and dug it up. At least share your successes with all of us so we can join in your celebration of digging up the 3rd casque. Wait, are you implying someone criticized you... on the Internet???

drunknerds wrote:: Wait, are you implying someone criticized you... on the Internet??? Some criticism can be constructive at times, but wholesale discounting is not.

gManTexas wrote:: Some criticism can be constructive at times, but wholesale discounting is not. I agree the "troll" comment was not helpful. But I feel like a lot of derails are coming because newer theorists are getting bogged down by butting heads with people who disagree without constructive criticism, rather than simply ignoring it.

drunknerds wrote:: This is where you lost me: Are you saying the letter M represents Germany? Rough stone = Wonder stone I liked the solve up until this point Yes, we know the country for this is Germany. Now, look at what the verse actually says: You'll see "a" letter from the country, not the first letter, not the last letter....BP was just being a little creative with this verse, that's all. The stone used to construct the Victorian Water Tower is special. Built in 1873 and designated a landmark in 1968, the tower is actually an ornate Niagra Limestone shell built around a 120 foot high wrought iron standpipe. The complete height of the structure is 175 feet. So this is what BP refers to as a wonderstone's hearth. The tower itself is a hearth.

MrBackstop wrote:: Yes, we know the country for this is Germany. Now, look at what you he verse actually says: You'll see "a" letter from the country, not the first letter, not the last letter....BP was just being a little creative with this verse, that's all. The stone used to construct the Victorian Water Tower is special. Built in 1873 and designated a landmark in 1968, the tower is actually an ornate Niagra Limestone shell built around a 120 foot high wrought iron standpipe. The complete height of the structure is 175 feet. So this is what BP refers to as a wonderstone's hearth. The tower itself is a hearth. I think the Niagara Limestone argument has merit. There's no real definition for "wonderstone" as far as I can see. I disagree that anyone would use "a letter from the country" to mean "literally any letter from the name of the country." Especially not a designer who is not above using M, B, and R, as "Mozart, Beethoven, and Roosevelt."

An actual wonderstone is usually from AZ or NV like these: hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... tedIndex=5 I just feel BP was using creative license with this term. And likewise, I feel he was doing the same thing with the "letter in a country" comment.

Unknown: I agree the "troll" comment was not helpful. It wasn't meant to be helpful. It was meant to be insightful. But just to be clear, it was White Rabbit who called this tangent nonsense, as in, this makes no sense. So if feelings were hurt (as if), then it's on him.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: It wasn't meant to be helpful. It was meant to be insightful. But just to be clear, it was White Rabbit who called this tangent nonsense, as in, this makes no sense. So if feelings were hurt (as if), then it's on him. Erpobdelliforme wrote:: True. But around here, it's better to deal in the probable. And the most likely explanation for what is going on is that the Forum is being trolled. No, you are responsible for the troll comment: It was a comment made out of the genuine desire to improve the forum. So own it. Again, the real issue is taking criticism too seriously. Renovator, white rabbit, Backstop, you all post stuff with the goal of sharing and being informative. So I just don't want you all to start getting bogged down with in-fighting. Most everything you guys say is informative, criticism comes out of the goal of clarity, even if it gets a little more sharp than it needs to. Balancing criticism with courtesy is a difficult line to walk, I'm just saying that you all have a lot to contribute, so let's try extra hard to walk that fine line.

Unknown: It was a comment made out of the genuine desire to improve the forum. So own it. Own it? How much clearer can I be? The forum is being trolled. That's a fact. I'm not clear on the who (although I have my suspicions), and I'm not clear on the how (other than it is a coordinated effort), but the why should be obvious to anyone with even a smattering of institutional knowledge who has been paying attention for the last few weeks. And it isn't being done, as you say, "with the goal of sharing and being informative".

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Own it? How much clearer can I be? The forum is being trolled. That's a fact. I'm not clear on the who (although I have my suspicions), and I'm not clear on the how (other than it is a coordinated effort), but the why should be obvious to anyone with even a smattering of institutional knowledge who has been paying attention for the last few weeks. And it isn't being done, as you say, "with the goal of sharing and being informative". Trolled in what way? I haven't seen much evidence of that, maybe some overactive bravado and snipping, but nothing major. Now, if you meant fishing for info, well once you put stuff out there, it's fair game.

I miss the days when I thought Image 2 fit the MKE location. The veterans of this board respectfully pointed out my foolishness. I've had many polarizing moments since and even been made to sit in the troll corner a time or two, but never have I gone full braggadocio. At least I understood there was some etiquette to maintain if I were to make any progress working with people. The recent onslaught of interested folks hasn't been all bad. It's just been confusing to follow so many sub-channels. I wonder if the hunt hasn't evolved into some kind of fan-fiction or a complex ARG managed by dwarven illuminati, caring only about boosting shovel sales at hardware stores all over the nation.

Man oh man, I put up my solve on this to try and throw out a new idea. I didn't expect some fresh eyes on this to be taken negatively. I expected some back-and-forth feedback like I've seen in several threads on here. I've seen many of the vets on here encourage people to post their ideas, thoughts or solves. I'm simply posting what I "see" to help get some of these casques found. To get to my conclusion I went to google earth street view and walk the route from the sidewalk as I envisioned BP would have actually done in '81. I just kept going further and further down Lincoln until that proud, tall fifth stood out to me. Today's technology is amazing.

My friend with VR gear says it's really fun to stroll around in Google maps. I would sure like to try that sometime.

erexere wrote:: My friend with VR gear says it's really fun to stroll around in Google maps. I would sure like to try that sometime. Look for 'google cardboard' you can get them for free most times. Then you can use your phone as a gr8 screen.

If you line up the "V" in the neck of her shirt in Image 10 with the portion of North Lake Park Road that is north of the intersection of that road, East Ravine Road, and the Oak Leaf Trail, quite a few things quickly start to line up. For one, North Lake Park Road follows her right collar of her shirt. Oak Leaf Trail closely follows her left portion of the V-neck and collar, even through it's several turns. Here's a crude overlay to illustrate: Hopefully someone with better Photoshop skills can do it more justice. I don't think I have seen this connection made before, but forgive me if this is not new, I tried to look back through this thread again and didn't see anyone make the connection. Hopefully it helps confirm Lake Park as the park to be in (if there was any doubt given the verse).

That is very cool meaty. Your layout shows the jewel in this direction down from the Lighthouse. As I look at this it reinforces my theory for me even more. I just realized from this angle how much the top part of her cape looks like the area from along the Oak Leaf Trail and the Lake down and around the North Point Water Tower and Fountain back up to the marina.

Fenix wrote:: This is pure gold. Not clear but with suspicion... He's probably right though. I'm still convinced Josh came from SA. The thread there gets popular again, people there start poking fun at the threads here and all of the sudden Josh happens? I mean to be fair... EU happened around the same time, but still. Josh seems like something SA would be proud of.

I don't disagree. There's some Stanford Prison Experiment level shanannigans goin on.

Unknown: Your layout shows the jewel in this direction down from the Lighthouse. It actually shows it closer to Wolcott. You guys remember Wolcott, don't you? The statue that 421 pointed out 3 or 4 pages ago? In Lake Park? The one with "country" written in stone. right past the Par 3 golf course? And from where you can actually see the red tee markers, especially if you are digging on the back side, near the southern foot of the horse? Which might also be shown in the image? viewtopic.php?f=32&t=773&start=600

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: It actually shows it closer to Wolcott. You guys remember Wolcott, don't you? The statue that 421 pointed out 3 or 4 pages ago? In Lake Park? The one with "country" written in stone. right past the Par 3 golf course? And from where you can actually see the red tee markers, especially if you are digging on the back side, near the southern foot of the horse? Which might also be shown in the image? viewtopic.php?f=32&t=773&start=600 In my previous post, I originally had a short paragraph about the location of the gem in relationship to the neckline matching up with Oak Leaf Trail, but removed it because A) My scale might be a little off, which would throw the placement of the gem off, and B) While I think the gem's placement on the image helps identify where the gem may be; there are several things on the Image that it could be in relation to, including the golf balls as four21 points out. At any rate, I think the way things line up, the gem on the Image is well south of the lion bridges. Wolcott is north of the lion bridges. Again, this doesn't necessarily mean anything is right or wrong, it might simply mean that the gem's location on the image is in relation to something other than the neckline. I do like four21's Wolcott theory. Has anyone explored that area on the ground?

Unknown: I do like four21's Wolcott theory. Has anyone explored that area on the ground? I'm guessing anyone in the area who is interested in this hunt and has access to this information is already all over it. That's the way things work around here.

burnstyle wrote:: He's probably right though. I'm still convinced Josh came from SA. The thread there gets popular again, people there start poking fun at the threads here and all of the sudden Josh happens? I mean to be fair... EU happened around the same time, but still. Josh seems like something SA would be proud of. That's what I thought too, but the SA Secret thread is pretty much contained to trolling itself. Plus we're dunking on him over there, too. I can't recall any derogatory jokes about any q4t content that didn't also insult the earnest SA searchers, as well. I think this is just an example of Poe's law: Never assume "that person must not be for real" just because they are posting stuff on the Internet that seems too ridiculous to be believable. Someone found an old youtube account of Josh's, so unless he's been working on this persona for years, it's real. Plus there have been times when he's genuinely attempted to be helpful. Meaty this is some great work I haven't seen before. would searching for art installations in the area(online) help?

drunknerds wrote:: Meaty this is some great work I haven't seen before. would searching for art installations in the area(online) help? Thanks! I don't know how the discovery helps find a solve, but at least it answers why her neck and collar are so oddly shaped. Art installations may help, there's probably plenty of things to still find in each of these Images, solved or not. Whether they lead to an immediate dig spot or not is a different question. I have something else from the Image line up on the map that I'll post when I get home tonight. I don't think it's a game changer for Milwaukee, probably just another "Huh, so that's what that is."

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: It actually shows it closer to Wolcott. You guys remember Wolcott, don't you? The statue that 421 pointed out 3 or 4 pages ago? In Lake Park? The one with "country" written in stone. right past the Par 3 golf course? And from where you can actually see the red tee markers, especially if you are digging on the back side, near the southern foot of the horse? Which might also be shown in the image? viewtopic.php?f=32&t=773&start=600 I thought this was a cool solve myself except that the Wolcott statue isn't past the Lighthouse or West of the Par 3. And I couldn't find an anwer to it concerning a hearth so I kept searching after I looked at that statue. Also one other thing I like about the North Point Water Tower is that the water fountain grounds connected to it have the same pattern as the design around the woman's neck. But of course that pattern is seen in all kinds of places in Milwaukee.

MrBackstop wrote:: Just to be clear, are you saying this is a potential match?

Unknown: I thought this was a cool solve myself I agree.

Just to be clear, are you saying this is a potential match? [/quote] Yes indeed

Unknown: Yes indeed Looks like a good place to explore on your next trip to Milwaukee then. No downside to spending a day in the park, treasure or not.

Does anyone have good leads for researching this fountain? Particularly, when was that curved road for cars inserted? If that wasn't there in 1980, it looks really promising, although you made a great point about that pattern being common

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Looks like a good place to explore on your next trip to Milwaukee then. No downside to spending a day in the park, treasure or not. You got that right. I love going to see a Brewers game and doing a little searching over a nice weekend. I'll be up sometime in June if no body checks this spot out and I'll let you guys know how it goes. Hopefully someone will get to it before then, whether it's my solve or someone elses spot.

Let me add something to my solve that I just noticed over the weekend. The light blue highlighted part of the top of the woman's cape cape has been mentioned to be shaped like the coastline of Lake Michigan from about the Lion Bridges down to the Marina area. The bottom side of the light blue part of the cape is from the Lighthouse down to and around North Point Park, then up to the Marina. Notice the phallic looking shape in the triangular part of the cape? That is the North Point Water Tower hidden in plain sight.

This was almost definitely recreated for B-Roll, but when Josh and JJP are talking about Preiss' photos they cut to this: What is that one on the right, is that the bowl thing from Cleveland?

MrBackstop wrote:: Let me add something to my solve that I just noticed over the weekend. The light blue highlighted part of the top of the woman's cape cape has been mentioned to be shaped like the coastline of Lake Michigan from about the Lion Bridges down to the Marina area. The bottom side of the light blue part of the cape is from the Lighthouse down to and around North Point Park, then up to the Marina. Notice the phallic looking shape in the triangular part of the cape? That is the North Point Water Tower hidden in plain sight. Yes sir, glad someone else is looking for these things.

drunknerds wrote:: This was almost definitely recreated for B-Roll, but when Josh and JJP are talking about Preiss' photos they cut to this: What is that one on the right, is that the bowl thing from Cleveland? I’m pretty sure that Palencar said that he destroyed all of the photos and information that was used to create the paintings. He was also tight lipped and it seemed that he planned on keeping it that way out of respect for his friendship with Preiss. To me, that is a solid way to go about this thing. If he actually has pictures and shared them with anyone, especially a TV show, that seems like the dick way to go about this thing.

BINGO wrote:: I’m pretty sure that Palencar said that he destroyed all of the photos and information that was used to create the paintings. He was also tight lipped and it seemed that he planned on keeping it that way out of respect for his friendship with Preiss. To me, that is a solid way to go about this thing. If he actually has pictures and shared them with anyone, especially a TV show, that seems like the dick way to go about this thing. I think drunknerds was saying and I believe it too, that these Polaroids were recreated for the show. They went and took some shots nowadays of various things assumed to be connected with the hunt.

gManTexas wrote:: I think drunknerds was saying and I believe it too, that these Polaroids were recreated for the show. They went and took some shots nowadays of various things assumed to be connected with the hunt. Well you never know, the type of plastic fencing in the bottom of the central picture was patented in 2001, so BP could have had a time machine...

maltedfalcon wrote:: Well you never know, the type of plastic fencing in the bottom of the central picture was patented in 2001, so BP could have had a time machine... This seems to be the theme lately. I suspect that he will be present to hand over a gem stone for the next casque. We can call it the Preiss Paradox.

I am currently in Milwaukee and have been scouting around Lake Park. Here is a partial photo of the Water Tower. I really doubt that the casque was buried here. The tower sits in the middle of a very busy traffic circle and several intersections. I was surprised how close it actually is to Lake Park though. The Water Tower is a really cool building.

Since you're there at the water tower, walk across the street to see the nifty park and the fountain with plaques from around '68. You can see depressions on the ground where trees or bushes used to be. (Nope....I don't think the casque is there, either.)

MrSeabass wrote:: NO go to AJ Bomber's on Knapp/Water and shovel the best fired cheese curds in the world into your mouth. Good info!

That damn fence is still there? The casque should be the right edge in your photo between the tower (Southern Foot) and the bush. And realize something pretty simple here, Priess would have had his high visibility vest or hard hat or something like that that he mentioned before. This would not have brought any attention to him in '81 much less now with the number reversed. Think about it, how many times do you worry or think twice about what a construction, or power company, or or water worker in your town is doing? I never pay attention to those workers and what they are doing.

MrBackstop wrote:: That damn fence is still there? The casque should be the right edge in your photo between the tower (Southern Foot) and the bush. And realize something pretty simple here, Priess would have had his high visibility vest or hard hat or something like that that he mentioned before. This would not have brought any attention to him in '81 much less now with the number reversed. Think about it, how many times do you worry or think twice about what a construction, or power company, or or water worker in your town is doing? I never pay attention to those workers and what they are doing. I'm not saying you are wrong, but I am just not feeling it. It is sufficiently far from all of the clues in Lake Park. As is stands, I walked about 3.5 miles from Mitchell Hall through the park, going up the staircase, passing the golf course, the light house, and then back to the parking area near the playground. If this is the path BP wanted us to take, it is extremely long. I just can't see adding another 1/4 mile or so to get to the Water Tower.

MrBackstop wrote:: And realize something pretty simple here, Priess would have had his high visibility vest or hard hat or something like that that he mentioned before. This would not have brought any attention to him in '81 much less now with the number reversed. Think about it, how many times do you worry or think twice about what a construction, or power company, or or water worker in your town is doing? I never pay attention to those workers and what they are doing. I'm in this camp. Sure digging a giant hole in a very public place seems alarming. But it's like murder: The first time is super-nerve-wrecking, but then (if you get away with it) it gets incredibly easier after that. Don't know how we'd ever figure this out, but I'd bet at least one of the last few casks Preiss buries were in a really visible place.

ill say it...youre wrong (sorry backstop lol)

MrSeabass wrote:: NO go to AJ Bomber's on Knapp/Water and shovel the best fired cheese curds in the world into your mouth. Damnation!!! I didn't go there a few weeks ago when Mrs EZ and I were in Lake Park, seeing where AP used to dig. Maybe our next trip, I'll convince her to go there. Will bring a mini-tile probe to poke the curds, before shoveling.

Gman I get it, if you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. My key is the hearth. So I would ask you, do you have another good hearth in mind in this area. I'll be honest, after I found this one and saw the design in Image 10 around the lady's neck, I stopped looking for another hearth. JC I gotcha, you don't like this solve. That's okay by me. The cool think is that ALL our solves are right until they are proven wrong.

eeee I don't know about that. you make an obvious and glaring error on a pretty easy clue. and its pretty central to your solve...my two cents.

which design? on the collar of the juggler?

MrBackstop wrote:: Gman I get it, if you're not feeling it, you're not feeling it. My key is the hearth. So I would ask you, do you have another good hearth in mind in this area. I'll be honest, after I found this one and saw the design in Image 10 around the lady's neck, I stopped looking for another hearth. No, I don't have a good explanation for the hearth. I'm not against the Water Tower, it just doesn't make sense to me to go all through Lake Park to wind up at a spot outside of the park.

anus905 wrote:: which design? on the collar of the juggler? Yes, the shape of the park next to the tower is just a repeated pattern all over the collar as I see it. What is the easy clue I'm missing? I'm open to all info JC.

gManTexas wrote:: No, I don't have a good explanation for the hearth. I'm not against the Water Tower, it just doesn't make sense to me to go all through Lake Park to wind up at a spot outside of the park. I hear what you're saying but look at the distance traveled in Chicago, Priess made you walk a little . Many other solves that I and many others have posted for other Cities require some serious walking. Of course, we won't know the true distances until a casque comes out of its hole.

you travel a good distance in this one as you either start at Mitchell Hall or Wisconsin supper club (one brings you to the wrong park, one brings you to the right park via slightly different readings of the clues). first 7 clues together get you from original location to park. ill tell you the answer to the clue you've made an error on is in this forum.

Unknown: Sure digging a giant hole in a very public place seems alarming. It's not a "giant" hole. It's not even a "big" hole. It's a small, shallow hole, relatively speaking. I watched two men dig about 30 of them a few weeks ago, and it took them about 2 hours. Look, I get it. The legend of the holes lends mystery and intrigue to the hunt. Not as much as equating it to getting away with murder though. Still, burying these things was the easiest and least time-consuming thing Preiss had to do, and why, for the most part, they can be anywhere a person can dig. Even places that seem unlikely by today's standards.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: It's not a "giant" hole. It's not even a "big" hole. It's a small, shallow hole, relatively speaking. I watched two men dig about 30 of them a few weeks ago, and it took them about 2 hours. Look, I get it. The legend of the holes lends mystery and intrigue to the hunt. Not as much as equating it to getting away with murder though. Still, burying these things was the easiest and least time-consuming thing Preiss had to do, and why, for the most part, they can be anywhere a person can dig. Even places that seem unlikely by today's standards. So, you agree Preiss didn't bury it by any trees? Because that is a long hole to dig.

anus905 wrote:: you travel a good distance in this one as you either start at Mitchell Hall or Wisconsin supper club (one brings you to the wrong park, one brings you to the right park via slightly different readings of the clues). first 7 clues together get you from original location to park. ill tell you the answer to the clue you've made an error on is in this forum. Stop being an ass, Anus. If you have an idea, just share it instead of trying to be obtuse. This forum isn't about beating on your chest and declaring how great you are, it is about solving these puzzles. For the record, you went to several locations and came up empty-handed, so you have no authority to claim to know where anything is or is not.

well ive not mapped mw completely out but if you do not recall I posted the entire first half of this solve (it was deleted) leading to both parks. think of what clue is central to his solve. the answer is here in the forum. its a very straightforward clue with a very straightforward answer. also, other than guessing final location...how does rest of puzzle get you there?

hint: it relates to what ive been posting about recently

anus905 wrote:: well ive not mapped mw completely out but if you do not recall I posted the entire first half of this solve (it was deleted) leading to both parks. think of what clue is central to his solve. the answer is here in the forum. its a very straightforward clue with a very straightforward answer. also, other than guessing final location...how does rest of puzzle get you there? Hey Josh, do me a favor. Quit this forum. Take your bullshit somewhere else. Nothing, I mean nothing, you have posted has made any sense or has been helpful in any way. You have cluttered up these threads with random guessing at stuff that is not rooted in reality. I realize that we have to deal with people like you on the internet, but if you are serious about helping then just leave instead of flooding these boards with your mental diarrhea. Thanks, gManTexas

really? lol why you mad? you gotta break a clue to get a clue! how the puzzle works!

anus905 wrote:: really? lol why you mad? you gotta break a clue to get a clue! how the puzzle works! I'm not mad at all. I don't really care, that's the deal. If I solve anything or not, I am sharing my results. I don't really give a rat's ass about you sitting in Canada claiming to know everything. The reality is that I am on the ground in Milwaukee and trying to help other people figure this out. I have no ulterior motives. I will share all of my data and photos in the next few days. Put up or shut up, bro. Man up.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: It's a small, shallow hole, relatively speaking. I watched two men dig about 30 of them a few weeks ago, and it took them about 2 hours. Did they find the heart piece, or are they going to have to pay 80 rupees and try again?

drunknerds wrote:: Did they find the heart piece, or are they going to have to pay 80 rupees and try again? Dude, What are you saying?

gManTexas wrote:: Dude, What are you saying? He's referring to 'The Legend of Zelda'.....Link....Nintendo.....or, sumptin like dat. And.....you must be crazy, runnin' around Milwaukee when it's raining with gusts up to 30 and temp at 32°....

Mister EZ wrote:: He's referring to 'The Legend of Zelda'.....Link....Nintendo.....or, sumptin like dat. This is it. There's a hole-digging minigame in some of the Zelda games. I just couldn't think of another reason that Renovator was watching two hours of hole digging.

Unknown: So, you agree Preiss didn't bury it by any trees? Because that is a long hole to dig. He could have put it right next to a tree, as long as he probed the ground first to make sure that the dig was feasible. As I said, it was a small, shallow hole. More than likely though, he avoided trees (even young ones) for reasons having nothing to do with digging, and everything to do with the fact that he expected people to be able to locate these things in the future.

MrSeabass wrote:: f**k why haven't you gotten fried cheese curds yet it's Saturday I don't eat cheese or fried food. If I still did, I would've been on that days ago.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: He could have put it right next to a tree, as long as he probed the ground first to make sure that the dig was feasible. As I said, it was a small, shallow hole. More than likely though, he avoided trees (even young ones) for reasons having nothing to do with digging, and everything to do with the fact that he expected people to be able to locate these things in the future. I doubt it. Why would someone go through the trouble? With so many places to dig, why go near a tree and the roots?

Unknown: With so many places to dig... I ask myself the same question with regard to the Fountain of Youth Park in St. Augustine or the Children's Zoo in Houston.

id say theres very good reason to go near trees and roots, because if there is development in the area over time, this would seemingly act to protect the casques location.

MrSeabass wrote:: You're missing out... I know...

....and now, it's 31° (feels like 14°), sleeting with about 0.5" of ice and snow on the ground. 1) It's a good thing that whoever dug 4 holes behind Erastus was able to do it before this crapola hit. 2) I hate this type of weather... no way I'm heading to Antarctica to probe for image 9.

we had that here too (Niagara Falls)...prob in MTL as well I'm guessing.

Mister EZ wrote:: I hate this type of weather... no way I'm heading to Antarctica to probe for image 9 But wait...isn't that plexiglass...? I think so.

Just a bit of North Point Water Tower trivia. I went to see this back in 1985. An artist created this dragon sculpture and was allowed to hang it on the Tower for a few weeks. Of course I did not know anything about the Secret at that time...drat!

WhiteRabbit wrote:: But wait...isn't that plexiglass...? I think so. Not sure....but, taking some measurements after printing out the image, you can see that there's 1 hole and it's 35mm wide......82 ft deep. Latitude and longitude for Antarctica is 82° lat, 135° long. And, I once saw a movie where a deep hole in the ice had Aliens at the bottom of the hole. Another where Christian Bale found dragons in a similar hole, but no ice. Therefore, it can't be recovered....because....well....there are Aliens and dragons. Rwar.

animal painter wrote:: Just a bit of North Point Water Tower trivia. I went to see this back in 1985. An artist created this dragon sculpture and was allowed to hang it on the Tower for a few weeks. Of course I did not know anything about the Secret at that time...drat! That's pretty cool, thanks for sharing.

I had the good fortune to be able to visit Milwaukee for work, and spend some time looking around Lake Park. The weather was not great but it was a lot of fun. I will figure out where to put the photos and videos of my walk through. Short summary. Starting at Mitchell Hall sort of feels right. You can go all through Lake Park and see some of the landmarks, which may point to things in Image 10 and Verse 8. There is little doubt in my mind that these are paired and are in Milwaukee. I believe the problem arises at the end. Maybe too much time has passed, or things have changed significantly. I saw a lot of trees that had been cut down and the hiking trails were a bit run down. To me, the trail went a bit cold once you get to the Lion Bridges and ravines. The South Lion Bridge ravine was redone in the past several years. Also, the area is prone to erosion. Issues: 1. I did not see a definitive "letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth". Either I have no idea what I am looking for, or it does not exist. 2. Foot of culvert. There are several. Which one are we looking for? 3. 100 paces. Terrible clue. If we take this to mean a standard pace of 2.5 feet, that give us a distance of 250 feet. Nothing is marked as such. 4. Young birch. Does this mean an actual birch tree? The area has birches, but none that really stood out. Maybe it is more of a metaphor? 5. For the life of me, I did not get any ah-ha moments about where to dig. 6. The Footbridge that goes over Locust Street Ravine Trail and East Ravine Road is blocked off and deteriorating. I did go poke around, but since it has not been kept up, it is hard to tell if the area plays a role in the puzzle. 7. The path from Mitchell Hall through the park is very long. I am not saying that is wrong, just a relatively long path to take, especially if you are in the North Point Water Tower camp, which takes you though the park and then back out of the southern end to the Water Tower. I have some ideas that I will share along with the photos and videos, maybe someone can see something here. I do not have a proposed solve or dig spot.

gMan, You are right about the trail going cold once you are at the Lion Bridges. Birch trees are still alive in the Waterfall Ravine (formerly the Girls Scout Ravine). If you look at several varieties of trees (especially cottonwoods) in their young state, their bark looks "birchy". The question has always been..."How good was BP at identifying trees?

gManTexas wrote:: I had the good fortune to be able to visit Milwaukee for work, and spend some time looking around Lake Park. The weather was not great but it was a lot of fun. I will figure out where to put the photos and videos of my walk through. Short summary. Starting at Mitchell Hall sort of feels right. You can go all through Lake Park and see some of the landmarks, which may point to things in Image 10 and Verse 8. There is little doubt in my mind that these are paired and are in Milwaukee. I believe the problem arises at the end. Maybe too much time has passed, or things have changed significantly. I saw a lot of trees that had been cut down and the hiking trails were a bit run down. To me, the trail went a bit cold once you get to the Lion Bridges and ravines. The South Lion Bridge ravine was redone in the past several years. Also, the area is prone to erosion. Issues: 1. I did not see a definitive "letter from the country of wonderstone's hearth". Either I have no idea what I am looking for, or it does not exist. 2. Foot of culvert. There are several. Which one are we looking for? 3. 100 paces. Terrible clue. If we take this to mean a standard pace of 2.5 feet, that give us a distance of 250 feet. Nothing is marked as such. 4. Young birch. Does this mean an actual birch tree? The area has birches, but none that really stood out. Maybe it is more of a metaphor? 5. For the life of me, I did not get any ah-ha moments about where to dig. 6. The Footbridge that goes over Locust Street Ravine Trail and East Ravine Road is blocked off and deteriorating. I did go poke around, but since it has not been kept up, it is hard to tell if the area plays a role in the puzzle. 7. The path from Mitchell Hall through the park is very long. I am not saying that is wrong, just a relatively long path to take, especially if you are in the North Point Water Tower camp, which takes you though the park and then back out of the southern end to the Water Tower. I have some ideas that I will share along with the photos and videos, maybe someone can see something here. I do not have a proposed solve or dig spot. Really cool, gMan! Thanks for all of your hard work on the ground!

animal painter wrote:: gMan, You are right about the trail going cold once you are at the Lion Bridges. Birch trees are still alive in the Waterfall Ravine (formerly the Girls Scout Ravine). If you look at several varieties of trees (especially cottonwoods) in their young state, their bark looks "birchy". The question has always been..."How good was BP at identifying trees? I've thought about this, like a lot. My first instinct is that he didn't really mean a tree. Trees are such bad landmarks. My second though is that because he was well read and seemed to appreciate both art and nature, he would have known a birch from a cottonwood. But, you could be right.

atdreamer2112 wrote:: Really cool, gMan! Thanks for all of your hard work on the ground! Thanks, I hope to have everything up by the end of the week, including my visit to the NP LIghthouse Museum.

animal painter wrote:: gMan, You are right about the trail going cold once you are at the Lion Bridges. Birch trees are still alive in the Waterfall Ravine (formerly the Girls Scout Ravine). If you look at several varieties of trees (especially cottonwoods) in their young state, their bark looks "birchy". The question has always been..."How good was BP at identifying trees? Considering the awesome work that you, forest_blight, Stercox, decibalnyc, and a ton of other hunters have put in over the course of more than a decade, I have to wonder and ask about something that I'm sure others have wondered about (and, probably have had answered): The slopes of those ravines are steep. In some places, treacherously steep. Many of the proposed solutions of the past....and, dig sites of the past (including many of yours)....don't seem to identify a spot in any of the ravines, on the slopes. Preiss wouldn't have bothered climbing one of those slopes, to balance himself as he tried to dig a 3' deep hole, past tree roots... would he? I think I read that you searched under the south lion bridge...? But, you didn't dig on the slope of any ravine....? Because....why would it be on a slope? He would want to get in, dig the hole, bury the casque and get out quickly. Right? Or, am I missing something? (Trees being good /bad landmarks set, aside. Wanting to protect a tree, set aside. He just wouldn't have bothered, because it would be a hassle...with possible future litigation, if a treasure hunter fell and snapped their neck.)

gManTexas wrote:: Thanks, I hope to have everything up by the end of the week, including my visit to the NP LIghthouse Museum. Did you notice that the lighthouse had 5 lighthouse keepers? (I noticed....but, it's a stretch, so I dismissed that a while ago. No connections in the image or verse to any of them.)

Mister EZ wrote:: Did you notice that the lighthouse had 5 lighthouse keepers? (I noticed....but, it's a stretch, so I dismissed that a while ago. No connections in the image or verse to any of them.) I have a bunch of thoughts on the light house. I have to finish doing my taxes before I can work on this stuff.

Just re-posting these comparison photos of the Cottonwood trees at the East end of the South Lion Bridge Ravine. When they were young (in 1940) they definitely looked like birch trees. It is said that BP did his digging in March. Trees in Wisconsin do not get leaves until well into May. So he would have seen only the bark to Identify them. Cottonwood trees are ubiquitous in Lake Park! The presence of that multi-trunk tree has also been cause for speculation. How long did it survive?

animal painter wrote:: Just re-posting these comparison photos of the Cottonwood trees at the East end of the South Lion Bridge Ravine. When they were young (in 1940) they definitely looked like birch trees. It is said that BP did his digging in March. Trees in Wisconsin do not get leaves until well into May. So he would have seen only the bark to Identify them. Cottonwood trees are ubiquitous in Lake Park! The presence of that multi-trunk tree has also been cause for speculation. How long did it survive? If the 5 trunk tree is the one on the north side of the Bistro, the stump is still there. It is to the right after you go up the Grand Staircase, just before the concrete arch bridge. I also came across a stump across from the golf course, before you get to the Wolcott Statue. I want to say between waterfall ravine and the maintenance sheds. It looks like it could have had 5 trunks, but not sure. They have done some replanting of birches, like they want to bring them back to the park. Speaking of the concrete bridge, the one that is closed off, I took a minute to look today, it is around 216 feet long. Maybe to the stump is 100 paces? That's such a variable measurement though, 100 paces....

Unknown: It is said that BP did his digging in March. Trees in Wisconsin do not get leaves until well into May. When do they lose them? Because he didn't take delivery of the casques until late summer, and it seems unlikely that he would have sat on them for 8-9 months before putting them into the ground. Fall is more likely, at least for the northern casques.

MrSeabass wrote:: Lemme blow it up and resize it as a low quality jpeg and draw on it for a bit. I'm sure I can see the plexiglass then. All of you are cracking me up, right now. These were among my all time favorite posts.

Hey everyone! As you may know, I had the opportunity to spend several days in Milwaukee in April 2018. I have more work to do to process all of the images, videos and info I gathered. While I was there, I used an app on my phone called GPS Waypoints. With this app you can record a trail and then export into a format that Google Maps and Earth can display. In addition, I linked most of the photos, so you get an icon and preview at the spot where I took the photo. In an effort to keep the mapping file small (707 KB), I did not embed the full photos, but they are linked to Google Drive, so you can download them. All of the photos are geotagged so you should be able to map them individually as well. The file is best used in Google Earth. It gives you more options for viewing. After you open the file, what you will see is a trail or path from 4/12/2018 which is one layer, photos around the North Point Light House on 4/11/2018 on a second layer, and photos starting at Mitchell Hall going through Lake Park on 4/12/2018 on the third layer. You can turn each of these on or off as you wish. If for any reason this does not work for you, please check your default browser and/or consult Google Help. This is the first time I've done this, so I am new to it and probably do not have technical answers regarding the mapping part. If for some reason it does not work at all, let me know so I can look at the files. IMPORTANT! If you click the link below, it will directly open a map with limited features. You must download the file and open in Google Earth for the best experience. While you are browsing, if you have questions about a photo or location, please let me know. Enjoy! gManTexas Map file https://drive.google.com/file/d/1vPhe8o ... sp=sharing Share drive with photos and files https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing

Great stuff Gman. You worked your ass off on this informative search....nicely done.

did you follow the verse for this? cause if you start at Mitchell hall you end up at the wrong park (Lincoln Park)...you have to start at the alternate location (reinforced by visual clues) to get to lake park via the verse proper.

I posted both paths using first 7 clues for this, before it was deleted.

you gotta start at the Wisconsin Supper Club bro. you have to use slightly different yet still valid interpretations to get to one or the other.

gManTexas wrote:: While I was there, I used an app on my phone called GPS Waypoints. With this app you can record a trail and then export into a format that Google Maps and Earth can display. In addition, I linked most of the photos, so you get an icon and preview at the spot where I took the photo. That's very cool; thanks gManTexas!

anus905 wrote:: you gotta start at the Wisconsin Supper Club bro. you have to use slightly different yet still valid interpretations to get to one or the other. Yeah gman...start at 'the' supper club...wait for the location to load on the map , after clicking the link. https://www.wisconsinsupperclubs.net/supperclublocations/

Mister EZ wrote:: Yeah gman...start at 'the' supper club...wait for the location to load on the map , after clicking the link. https://www.wisconsinsupperclubs.net/supperclublocations/ That is ironically hilarious. Next time I am in Wisconsin and have 5 years of free time, I'm all over this.

...theres only one in the old Mitchell Mansion...

my mistake, its just called the Wisconsin Club...my buddy made a documentary on Wisconsin supper clubs, hence my error lol. https://www.wisconsinclub.com/fw/main/History-4.html here youll find the sleeve of the juggler and more lions...

Amazing work, Gman, I've never heard of that technology. Now, all we need is an anonymous "mark where you've dug" app .

I took some video while I was in Lake Park in Milwaukee. Here is a link to my walk around the Lion Bridges and North Point Light House area on 11 April 2018. This footage is from a GoPro camera strapped to my chest, and it is slightly bumpy from me walking, but It gives a decent wide angle view of what is there. You'll notice that the light house ravines have pretty steep slopes and generally rough terrain. It is difficult to imagine anything being buried on these slopes. The video is 3.33 GB and 36:34 long. I also removed the sound since there wasn't anything interesting there. Enjoy! More to come. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aTN21O ... sp=sharing

gManTexas wrote:: I took some video while I was in Lake Park in Milwaukee. Here is a link to my walk around the Lion Bridges and North Point Light House area on 11 April 2018. This footage is from a GoPro camera strapped to my chest, and it is slightly bumpy from me walking, but It gives a decent wide angle view of what is there. You'll notice that the light house ravines have pretty steep slopes and generally rough terrain. It is difficult to imagine anything being buried on these slopes. The video is 3.33 GB and 36:34 long. I also removed the sound since there wasn't anything interesting there. Enjoy! More to come. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aTN21O ... sp=sharing Here is the video from the full walk through, minus Mitchell Hall. I started it at the first bridge. The video is 5.5 GB and 60 minutes long. https://drive.google.com/file/d/19qoxS0 ... sp=sharing

gman, It was such fun walking through Lake Park again watching your GoPro recording. The place has changed so much since 2007! A lot fewer trees... I wish someone would have taken a "Super 8" home movie of the area back in 1980. (Maybe they did)...How do we get people to share their old home movies...or even their family photo albums from 38 years ago??

animal painter wrote:: gman, It was such fun walking through Lake Park again watching your GoPro recording. The place has changed so much since 2007! A lot fewer trees... I wish someone would have taken a "Super 8" home movie of the area back in 1980. (Maybe they did)...How do we get people to share their old home movies...or even their family photo albums from 38 years ago?? Thanks! Maybe someone has or will post a converted video on Youtube from that time period. I also believe that there may be a wealth of information at the Milwaukee Historical Society, library or even the local news outlets. Maybe if there was some major event in the park there should be footage.

that large music fest in me takes place in the park...I forget what its called :S

gManTexas wrote:: Thanks! Maybe someone has or will post a converted video on Youtube from that time period. I also believe that there may be a wealth of information at the Milwaukee Historical Society, library or even the local news outlets. Maybe if there was some major event in the park there should be footage. The Milwaukee Historical Society and the Downtown Library both have archives that I have searched. There can be new photos added as people acquire their relatives' albums and want to donate them to either place. That means having to return and search periodically. There has been Summerfest since the 1970s. It takes place down LMD...closer to the Art Museum and Discovery World.

Hey guys, it's Reubnick. As you can readily see, I have not been an active contributor to this forum. But I can assure you, however, that I have been a close follower for years as well as a highly active participant to this search who has on his own gone out looking for this treasure twice. This is clearly not about one guy looking for and finding this casque, because I feel that is basically antithetical to what this has all become. So I want to begin to involve myself with this forum because I think you guys are great, ingenious, and a tremendous community of individuals who are all part of a collective group that is so much bigger than one guy or gal finding a porcelain cask in the ground. Thus far I've worked with James Renner on this since 2012 or something like that, and more recently a few producers who wanted in on the action, but little else. It seemed improper to keep going about this all alone so I wanted to involve myself. In the winter James Renner and Josh Gates began saying to me that they think they know where this thing is located but that they only realized it after their episode of Destination Truth aired. They want me to go digging for it. I've decided that it's in the best interest of this whole hunt that I say I will be searching that location within the next 2 months and I will report back with full details. Just to disclose of everything I personally know about all of this, I will try to say anything on my end that I find pertinent. I saw a while back that somebody asked if anybody looked near the Wolcott statue. I can say that I did so to the best of my ability some years ago because I also thought that was where it would be. Erastus Wolcott was a Leo, a proud and tall one at that, and the statue was in the general vicinity of the radius of where everybody thinks this thing is likely buried. This happened back in 2014 or something so I don't remember all of my deductive reasoning that lead myself to it, but it seemed pretty rock-solid at the time. I brought a metal rod and probed as much as I could, but the thing is that it seems as though there is a layer of concrete and rocks just a number of inches beneath the statue that proved to be impenetrable. Sadly, if this thing is under or near the Wolcott statue, I really don't think it will ever be recovered. I hope that can put that theory to rest. Additionally, I also probed near the lion statues, which for reasons already well-established make a lot of sense for this thing to be located. I faced a similar dilemma in that the lion statues all sit on a rectangular base that covers their entire underside that has a large volume of cement underneath them. So, to say that the casque is buried under one of their paws, do you think that means that it would be placed underneath the lion statue? I just find that to be a bit impractical, I guess. I don't see how Byron Preiss could have pulled that one off. This is also another one of those things that may have been the situation at the time but that is now no longer accessible since I know that after the supposed burial of the casque the city of Milwaukee widened the bridge and made many alterations. For other reasons I cannot recall, I was lead to the George Washington statue in Milwaukee. I can categorically say that, no, it's just not located there. There is just no way. It is far too publicly visible, the island it is on is far too small, and nobody could possibly anonymously dig a hole and bury something there. I also probed near the Solomon Juneau Monument where there is the bronze relief of Juneau greeting some other characters that closely resembles the juggling lady in Image 10. Though I probed, I found nothing because I am fairly certain this is only halfway through the riddle. I looked near the sandy patch near the exit from the wooded area that leads to Bradford Beach that had what seemed to be a cluster of 3 birches that looked similar to the section of Image 10 that resembles 3 trees. It was not there either. This has been my Moby Dick for years now and I cannot stress enough that I am so dedicated to this thing being found. When we find it, I want there to be a party with much libations from all of us. What a rager that would be. I want this found so much that I feel nearly manic about it, I will not lie. I will admit that it would be super cool to be the one to find it, just for the initial thrill and glory that seems to be channeling whatever vestiges I have left of my youthful and idealistic 3rd grader brain. But as I said, I know this is much bigger than that. Even if I am not the guy who finds it, I will be filled with such joy if anybody else finds this thing that I won't even think twice about it. So that is why I have now said everything I know and why I am committing to continue doing so until this is found. Maybe it's helpful, maybe it isn't. I just hope you all don't see me as an opportunistic Johnny-come-lately. Though I may have not been contributing this whole time, I assure you I have been just as involved as most of you. There is something very Treasure Island about all of this, and I liken myself much more of a Jim Hawkins than a Long John Silver. I want it found. Thanks.

Hey everyone, I have put together my proposed solve for Milwaukee in a PDF. Many thanks to Goonie68 and drunknerds for their assistance and feedback regarding this puzzle. Although I do not have an exact dig spot, the clues seem to bring us to the Wolcott statue or very close to it. https://www.dropbox.com/s/7wri998hna4iw ... 1.pdf?dl=0 As always, if you have any questions or comments, please leave them here. gManTexas

nope.

anus905 wrote:: nope. Go f**k yourself. Don't ever reply to another one of my posts.

anus905 wrote:: nope. Hey Josh! I see where your reddit Ask me anything got taken down for lack of proof of claims... bummer!

Great work Gman. That is a very thorough and well thought out solve. Nice to see you could get on the ground, walk the area and come up with a logical solve. My hats of to you.

MrBackstop wrote:: Great work Gman. That is a very thorough and well thought out solve. Nice to see you could get on the ground, walk the area and come up with a logical solve. My hats of to you. Thanks!

anus905 wrote:: nope. excuse you? "nope"....get the f out of here with that. which i think you've already been told. nice job gman!!!

Unknown: Nice to see you could get on the ground, walk the area and come up with a logical solve I don't generally comment on individual solves, but generally speaking, if your solve leads you to a spot in the middle of the woods, you have probably made a mistake somewhere along the line. As they found out in Milwaukee, digging by a single tree is challenging enough. DIgging in an area full of trees would be damn near impossible.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I don't generally comment on individual solves, but generally speaking, if your solve leads you to a spot in the middle of the woods, you have probably made a mistake somewhere along the line. As they found out in Milwaukee, digging by a single tree is challenging enough. DIgging in an area full of trees would be damn near impossible. If Goonie68 sees this, I'll let him comment. My proposed spot is adjacent to the south side of the statue.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Hey Josh! I see where your reddit Ask me anything got taken down for lack of proof of claims... bummer! as usual. youre wrong lol. the one taken down was about my fucked demon haunted painting. try paying closer attention next time...

not sure why you guys are being so hostile towards me. gman has some right parts in his attempted solution, but he goes majorly wrong at one point, which ive noted multiple times. also, the answer is very publicly available and not really hard to find. this is a glaring and obvious error in my opinion. and its where he goes downhill. not to shit on his effort or anything, but its not right.

Unknown: My proposed spot is adjacent to the south side of the statue. So the southern foot of the monument, instead of the southern foot of either the rider (Wolcott) or the horse (which would technically be a hoof) as 421 proposed a few pages back? Either fits the verse and seems more likely than anything in the woods to me.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: So the southern foot of the monument, instead of the southern foot of either the rider (Wolcott) or the horse (which would technically be a hoof) as 421 proposed a few pages back? Either fits the verse and seems more likely than anything in the woods to me. Southern foot of Wolcott, the horse or the monument is all the same. The stones have been there around the monument for a long time, so we would have to move to the next available space which would be at the foot of the entire monument itself. The bushes that are there now, I am unsure when they were planted and what may have been disturbed. Really the point of me posting, is more to share the photos, videos, maps, ideas, connections so that maybe someone else can take the ball and run with it. I have no idea when I might get back to Milwaukee, if ever. In Goonie's defense, the area "in the woods" isn't really in the woods so to speak. It is at the fringe of the golf course. Unfortunately, I did not venture over there, but it is possible there may be a birch or other marker in that area. Certainly you can walk over there when you lose a golf ball. I'm hoping that someone who is local might visit and look around and take some photos.

anus905 wrote:: not sure why you guys are being so hostile towards me. gman has some right parts in his attempted solution, but he goes majorly wrong at one point, which ive noted multiple times. also, the answer is very publicly available and not really hard to find. this is a glaring and obvious error in my opinion. and its where he goes downhill. not to shit on his effort or anything, but its not right. You should really quit this forum.

Unknown: not sure why you guys are being so hostile towards me Quite simply, it's because of your inability or unwillingness to distinguish between a solve and a solution. Every single one of us has ideas (solves) of where the casques should be or were at one time. Some are more logical than others, but none are solutions until they lead directly to an existing casque, either in whole or in pieces, no matter how compelling the evidence. And if you are of the mind that all ten of the remaining casques are irretrievably lost (without a trace) to the forces of man and/or nature, then perhaps this is not the puzzle for you anymore. It seems silly to keep looking for something that you are convinced that neither you nor anyone else can find.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I don't generally comment on individual solves, but generally speaking, if your solve leads you to a spot in the middle of the woods, you have probably made a mistake somewhere along the line. As they found out in Milwaukee, digging by a single tree is challenging enough. DIgging in an area full of trees would be damn near impossible. Yes I would agree about a location with trees, but as in Chicago "Then end of ten by thirteen" Was in relation to the casque being in and or around trees.

Unknown: so that maybe someone else can take the ball and run with it. People are digging in Milwaukee. I would think if any of them think the Wolcott solution has merit, the area has already been explored again.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: People are digging in Milwaukee. I would think if any of them think the Wolcott solution has merit, the area has already been explored again. Most of the fun was in being there, exploring, learning about the area and history, enjoying the park. The casque is secondary to me. It would be great if someone finds it, but I am happy just to share. That being said, an 8" square (cube) is difficult to locate with the non-specific clues provided by the author. It may still be there somewhere.

Unknown: Was in relation to the casque being in and or around trees. If it helps, the nearest tree to the dig spot in Chicago was almost 20' away. The closest tree in the grid (10x13 by some accounts) was almost 60' away. As a reference point maybe, but it would be a stretch to suggest that the casque was "in or around" trees.

Unknown: It may still be there somewhere. Until it is located somewhere else, there is always that possibility.

gman...here's some extra info: The original patio in front of the Wolcott monument was placed there in the early '20's. I believe that it was made of red brick pavers...at least somewhere along the way, it became red brick. I don't know if it was outlined with concrete slabs or if it extended around the sides and back of the monument, for its entire existence. Sometime while the patio was red brick, the bushes were planted...could have been in the late '80' or sometime after that. (Easy to find an undated color image with the red brick and bushes. Undated.... they could have been there in the '70's.). Because of the patio (and, the benches which were always part of the monument), there's no way the casque is buried under his foot/his horse's hoof (as suggested by 421). In 2008, when they restored the monument, they replaced the pavers with those that are in your pictures. It's now outlined with concrete slabs and extends around the sides and back. Interesting note: some of those red bricks are still laying on the ground next to the northern line of bushes, just to the west .....others are in the field/woods south of the monument, north of the ravine . Either parks/recs and their landscapers did a crappy job of cleanup back in 2008 OR a searcher dug those up and chucked them off to the side. (Somebody dug behind the statue, recently.....four holes... three weren't deep, 1.5' to about 2'. My probe sunk down a full 3.5' into the fourth dig spot. The bricks might have come from those holes or from previous digs.) In the SE corner you've circled, there's a flood lamp. It's not solar powered. So, there are buried electrical supply lines leading up to it....caution is needed, if you don't have utility surveys or a proper utility gpr marking of the ground. Speaking of gpr - - decibelnyc posted back in 2014 that he teamed up with animal painter for a bit....and, he said he gpr'd all around the monument. Wrote that he found nothing.

Mister EZ wrote:: gman...here's some extra info: The original patio in front of the Wolcott monument was placed there in the early '20's. I believe that it was made of red brick pavers...at least somewhere along the way, it became red brick. I don't know if it was outlined with concrete slabs or if it extended around the sides and back of the monument, for its entire existence. Sometime while the patio was red brick, the bushes were planted...could have been in the late '80' or sometime after that. (Easy to find an undated color image with the red brick and bushes. Undated.... they could have been there in the '70's.). Because of the patio (and, the benches which were always part of the monument), there's no way the casque is buried under his foot/his horse's hoof (as suggested by 421). In 2008, when they restored the monument, they replaced the pavers with those that are in your pictures. It's now outlined with concrete slabs and extends around the sides and back. Interesting note: some of those red bricks are still laying on the ground next to the northern line of bushes, just to the west .....others are in the field/woods south of the monument, north of the ravine . Either parks/recs and their landscapers did a crappy job of cleanup back in 2008 OR a searcher dug those up and chucked them off to the side. (Somebody dug behind the statue, recently.....four holes... three weren't deep, 1.5' to about 2'. My probe sunk down a full 3.5' into the fourth dig spot. The bricks might have come from those holes or from previous digs.) In the SE corner you've circled, there's a flood lamp. It's not solar powered. So, there are buried electrical supply lines leading up to it....caution is needed, if you don't have utility surveys or a proper utility gpr marking of the ground. Speaking of gpr - - decibelnyc posted back in 2014 that he teamed up with animal painter for a bit....and, he said he gpr'd all around the monument. Wrote that he found nothing. Thanks for sharing that info! That helps, and with your permission, I'd like to add it to my document. This is exactly what I'm hoping for, collaboration. I'll freely admit that I hit the end of the line with a fizzle. Not that it counts for much, but as I mentioned right after the visit, the walk through felt exhilarating right up to the Wolcott statue. Going beyond that to the Lion Bridges and Lighthouse felt like the trail went cold. Maybe it was because I had really scouted the light house area and ravines the day before, or maybe the weather, or that I had just walked through a huge park for miles....but the clues stopped happening. I'm open to anything until this thing is found, even if just remnants. I think it could be where Goonie68 suggested. There may be a clearing in the trees or was at one time. The nagging thing is that if there was any truth to Preiss' statements: 1. He thought they would be found in a short time. 2. The difficulty is related to the value of the gem. Then I don't see the area off of the 10th fairway (in the trees) as being out of the question at all. At one time there may have been a good spot in one of the ravines also. As an aside, I like the idea of GPR, I'm just not convinced that it will help anyone find such a small object. In that case, would buried bricks have set it off?

[quote="gManTexas" I like the idea of GPR, I'm just not convinced that it will help anyone find such a small object. In that case, would buried bricks have set it off?[/quote] GPR is not a metal detector - you basically get a printout of the densities of the ground below the reader at multiple depths. this has to be interpreted. one way is they plot them on a graph that shows basically a cross section of the ground that the GPR has scanned over. or you can take all the data and create a map of the whole area scanned to show densities at different depths.. so yes theoretically a brick would show up but really what you are looking for is the change in density of where a hole has been dug in the past. plus different frequency gprs are better for different depth readings. (so not just any gpr would be good)

maltedfalcon wrote:: GPR is not a metal detector - you basically get a printout of the densities of the ground below the reader at multiple depths. this has to be interpreted. one way is they plot them on a graph that shows basically a cross section of the ground that the GPR has scanned over. or you can take all the data and create a map of the whole area scanned to show densities at different depths.. so yes theoretically a brick would show up but really what you are looking for is the change in density of where a hole has been dug in the past. plus different frequency gprs are better for different depth readings. (so not just any gpr would be good) BTW, good podcast, just listened this morning. I am just wondering if a small object like a casque in plexiglas (which may or may not be cracked at this point) would effectively show up as a large enough anomaly to be recognized. I saw the scan someone posted of a new replica casque in virgin soil, but I'm not convinced.

gManTexas wrote:: I am just wondering if a small object like a casque in plexiglas (which may or may not be cracked at this point) would effectively show up as a large enough anomaly to be recognized. I saw the scan someone posted of a new replica casque in virgin soil, but I'm not convinced. That is the question! I just sent a replica casque to florida to be tested under a gpr in florida soil conditions. so we will see. The thing is the gpr is reading the soil not the objects so theoretically even a hold dug 40 years ago would show up as different then virgin soil I think the big problem is what happens if the area was tilled (even if the casque is totally intact.) it might not show at all.

Yup gman.....you can use that info. And, like I said, if you need it, a quick Google search for images will get you the picture(s) with the red brick /bush. Heck, gravestone.com would even show you that he was the fifth Wolcott named Erastus....the other four were cousins, born before 1804. (But, I doubt Preiss researched that in '80 - '81. Doing that would have required visits to the recorder offices of multiple states/ counties/cities, checking registries, census records, birth/death certificates, gravestones, etc. Heck, he probably would have had to go to England in order to find info about Simon Wolcott in the 1500's, the guy who started the whole thing when he came here in about 1630. Unless Preiss had access to a Wolcott family Bible with a family tree, I don't think he would have wasted the travel time and money.) My concern about Goonies' suggested location: It's west, not south, of Wolcott. (But, until something is found, I'm open to anything.....including one of the ravines.)

Here ya go....hard to see the extent of the patio, if there's a concrete boarder or if it extends around the sides and back. But....the bushes are there....don't know if they're the same bushes that are there now. Many (some) of the trees in the background are now stumps: Note...the bushes that are there now are about 3 times taller than what's in the picture

Mister EZ wrote:: Here ya go....hard to see the extent of the patio, if there's a concrete boarder or if it extends around the sides and back. But....the bushes are there....don't know if they're the same bushes that are there now. Many (some) of the trees in the background are now stumps: Thanks, I looked at a lot of old photos and satellite maps to try and figure it out. I want to say the area has been culled a bunch, but I'm sure it goes in cycles of growth and cutting.

Interesting thing I noticed....one of the old stumps had a bunch of new stalks growing out of it. Strong roots on that thing...

The GPR question is a good one you guys. The different soils will be affected in many ways over the years depending on climate and moisture week-to-week or month-to-month, not just year-to-year. How much could the soils compact year over year and how much more in a colder climate than a warmer one? Dealing with golf greens and baseball fields over the years it is difficult to maintain a good smooth golf green or a smooth infield especially when it comes to frost heave. I'm not familiar with what will happen to top soils, clays, or sands at a depth of 3 feet or more but there is a great deal of movement when the moisture escapes the ground when going from cold to hot and vice versa.

Unknown: there's no way the casque is buried under his foot/his horse's hoof (as suggested by 421). My mistake. He said at the southern foot of Wolcott (the monument), not under the southern foot of Wolcott (the horse and/or rider). Which is the exact same spot Gman favors. I'm suggesting that it might be at the statue's southern foot (or the horse's but that is essentially the same place). Not under it, but at it, in the dirt in front or possibly behind it. The latter would have been more secluded, but only in front can you see the letter and "country". So, in reality, three separate but equally likely dig spots using a juggled version of the verse.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: My mistake. He said at the southern foot of Wolcott (the monument), not under the southern foot of Wolcott (the horse and/or rider). Which is the exact same spot Gman favors. I'm suggesting that it might be at the statue's southern foot (or the horse's but that is essentially the same place). Not under it, but at it, in the dirt in front or possibly behind it. The latter would have been more secluded, but only in front can you see the letter and "country". So, in reality, three separate but equally likely dig spots using a juggled version of the verse. What I really liked was that in 1980 or so, that was kind of a dead spot in the park. The remnants of the Nike site and the fact that the lighthouse was technically Federal property probably meant that people were not spending a bunch of time down there. Beyond the lion bridges is the southern tip of the park which is essentially featureless. Seems that it would be a great area to bury something. Also, if the rumors are true that BP visited in March, there is minimal activity, especially from the maintenance guys. I saw no one "working" in the park, although it was in the late afternoon and evening.

gManTexas wrote:: What I really liked was that in 1980 or so, that was kind of a dead spot in the park. The remnants of the Nike site and the fact that the lighthouse was technically Federal property probably meant that people were not spending a bunch of time down there. Beyond the lion bridges is the southern tip of the park which is essentially featureless. Seems that it would be a great area to bury something. Also, if the rumors are true that BP visited in March, there is minimal activity, especially from the maintenance guys. I saw no one "working" in the park, although it was in the late afternoon and evening. @ren, the statue itself faces East/Southeast. Prior to 2008, there was a brick patio, directly in front of the statue and the entire monument.... not dirt. I'm not sure if that patio extended directly behind the statue/monument....but, it does now. That would still be West/Northwest. So...doubtful it is (or was) directly in front of the statue: He couldn't dig there. Behind it, a bit West/Southwest, maybe. That might have been dirt in '80. However, if that's the case, then the patio is completely surrounding the entire monument now, including the statue's pedestal, outlined by concrete slabs. (Somebody did recently dig 4 spots behind the statue ....one, Southwest of the statue, directly to the side of the patio slabs.). If that's where it is....close to the statue's pedestal, SW behind it, then it's possibly covered by the current patio pavers and concrete slabs. (Would have to dig down, then in, to find out - hoping the ground doesn't cave in while digging laterally. The hole going down would have to be a lot bigger than what was recently dug, in order to tunnel inward.) @gman, I dunno....those residents are cah-raaaazier than me. My wife and I were there the Saturday/Sunday after your Wednesday stroll/video. It was miserable: 40 mph gusts, a mix of rain, sleet and snow, 32°F. We thought there would be nobody in the park because of the weather. Nope! Those guys were still out, jogging, bird watching, walking their dogs, sauntering along looking for squirrels...or, whatever....instead of staying home, keeping warm. Some of those maniacs actually drove to the park to do that. I can't imagine that 40 years took them from being sane to being complete ice-park loving lunatics. I think the park was really active, even back in the late 70's / early 80's....that was around the time that the Jim Fixx jogging craze was dying down and the roller skating craze was starting. (I blame Disco. Damn you, Disco!!!)

Unknown: Prior to 2008, there was a brick patio, directly in front of the statue and the entire monument.... not dirt. You are confusing "under" with "at", as in "at its southern foot". By your own admission, the people who are actually probing and digging at Wolcott are not. Whether it is monuments, statues, trees, or walls, there are very few things that you can actually dig "under".

Mister EZ wrote:: @gman, I dunno....those residents are cah-raaaazier than me. My wife and I were there the Saturday/Sunday after your Wednesday stroll/video. It was miserable: 40 mph gusts, a mix of rain, sleet and snow, 32°F. We thought there would be nobody in the park because of the weather. Nope! Those guys were still out, jogging, bird watching, walking their dogs, sauntering along looking for squirrels...or, whatever....instead of staying home, keeping warm. Some of those maniacs actually drove to the park to do that. I can't imagine that 40 years took them from being sane to being complete ice-park loving lunatics. I think the park was really active, even back in the late 70's / early 80's....that was around the time that the Jim Fixx jogging craze was dying down and the roller skating craze was starting. (I blame Disco. Damn you, Disco!!!) Haha, Disco! I bet the park was super active back then, we didn't have cell phones and all these other distractions, people went outside. I meant the end of the park where Wolcott sits might have been less busy. Either way, I think people would have cared a lot less if they saw a guy digging in 1980 versus 2018.

MrBackstop wrote:: The GPR question is a good one you guys. The different soils will be affected in many ways over the years depending on climate and moisture week-to-week or month-to-month, not just year-to-year. How much could the soils compact year over year and how much more in a colder climate than a warmer one? Dealing with golf greens and baseball fields over the years it is difficult to maintain a good smooth golf green or a smooth infield especially when it comes to frost heave. I'm not familiar with what will happen to top soils, clays, or sands at a depth of 3 feet or more but there is a great deal of movement when the moisture escapes the ground when going from cold to hot and vice versa. Yes. We definitely need to give the GPR some thought given the possible variabilities with this instrument. One detail that is also important would be which antenna you are using. Higher frequency GPR antennas will give better resolution but have lower penetration depth. For this task, it has been suggested to me that a dual frequency 800/300 MHz system might work best given possible depth and size of object. Thoughts?

davinci4 wrote:: Yes. We definitely need to give the GPR some thought given the possible variabilities with this instrument. One detail that is also important would be which antenna you are using. Higher frequency GPR antennas will give better resolution but have lower penetration depth. For this task, it has been suggested to me that a dual frequency 800/300 MHz system might work best given possible depth and size of object. Thoughts? I agree that GPR can be a useful tool at times, but let's think about when the book was written. Pretty sure GPR was not available to the general public and should we simply focus on how the author designed the puzzles? Is GPR even necessary to locate the casques or is it just good old fashioned detective work and lots of probing? Another thing to keep in mind is the value of the "treasure". Should we spend more than the casque and gem is worth to find it? Seems to go against the return on investment concept.

Mister EZ wrote:: Yup gman.....you can use that info. And, like I said, if you need it, a quick Google search for images will get you the picture(s) with the red brick /bush. Heck, gravestone.com would even show you that he was the fifth Wolcott named Erastus....the other four were cousins, born before 1804. (But, I doubt Preiss researched that in '80 - '81. Doing that would have required visits to the recorder offices of multiple states/ counties/cities, checking registries, census records, birth/death certificates, gravestones, etc. Heck, he probably would have had to go to England in order to find info about Simon Wolcott in the 1500's, the guy who started the whole thing when he came here in about 1630. Unless Preiss had access to a Wolcott family Bible with a family tree, I don't think he would have wasted the travel time and money.) My concern about Goonies' suggested location: It's west, not south, of Wolcott. (But, until something is found, I'm open to anything.....including one of the ravines.) Yes the proposed location is west , How I got to west of the monument was not using the verse in a linear fashion. If we are calling her the "Juggler" then a juggled verse may play into the casque location. For example: Verse Liner Verse Juggled Pass three staying west You'll see a letter You'll see a letter Of wonderstone's hearth Of wonderstone's hearth At it's southern foot ( using the southern foot as a point to move west) On a proud tall fifth On a proud tall fifth At it's southern foot Walk 100 paces Staying west I find it hard to use a "foot", "step" or any other clue without math to get us to an x marks the spot. Again just a suggestion to a spot. I agree noting is for sure till one is unearthed.

Goonies.....gotcha, understood....and, could be...that's a big (yet, small) area to probe. Ren, I'm not confusing "under" vs. "at". Instead, you seem to be ignoring "then" vs. "now". Then....and now...it can be buried 'at' the base of the statue's pedestal S/SW, behind the statue. But, if it is, then it is (probably) also now 'under' the new pavers/concrete slabs, if the old patio didn't exist behind the statue, before 2008. There's no way that I'm suggesting that Preiss buried a casque 'under' anything except soil....including 'at' the front of the statue's pedestal, 'under' the patio that has existed in front of the statue's pedestal since the 1920's. But hey -- y'all knock yourselves out, prying up the pavers in front of the statue, under the horses hoof and just in front of the southern bench. Lemme know how that works out for ya, when one of the locals jog by... =]

Unknown: Instead, you seem to be ignoring "then" vs. "now". There is no difference between the two. The statue, pedestal, benches, and footprint of the surrounding patio, front and back, are essentially the same as they were when the statue was erected almost 100 years ago. So, if Preiss wanted to easily bury the casque at the rider's southern foot, or if someone wants to look for it there today, they have to stand in the grass in front of the horse and rider, or in the dirt behind them, directly in line with it, but 10-15 feet away. Unlike the southern foot of the monument, landscaping and/or electrical wires for the lights would not have been an issue in these two areas, then or now.

When was the last time you were there? We're you there prior to 2008?

Unknown: We're you there prior to 2008? Summer of 2002. Why do you ask? Is there something about my analysis that you disagree with?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Summer of 2002. Why do you ask? Is there something about my analysis that you disagree with? Erpobdelliforme wrote:: So, if Preiss wanted to easily bury the casque at the rider's southern foot, or if someone wants to look for it there today, they have to stand in the grass in front of the horse and rider, or in the dirt behind them, directly in line with it, but 10-15 feet away Heh...relax ren. Please, don't be so defensive. I wasn't there, prior to 2008. So, I'm curious about the patio, before the renovation...front, back and sides, around the monument, as a whole. That's why I was asking. But, now that you mention it: My issue with that, is 'in front of the horse and rider'....do you mean, in the direction the statue is facing? Directly in line with it...towards the path that leads to the lion bridges? Perpendicular to the direction of the benches? That positions you East / South East....not South, no matter how far off the patio you are. And, 'the dirt behind them...' is West / Northwest. I don't see how you're getting 'southernmost' out of two positions that are generally East / West of the statue (and, monument as a whole), even if you go beyond the edge of the patio into the grass, dirt or forest....if that's what you meant. Since I'm obviously a bit more dense than the usual newbie, please explain more.

Unknown: That's why I was asking. Unknown: I don't see how you're getting 'southernmost' out of two positions that are generally East / West of the statue Fair enough. But in all honesty, if you are really curious, I'm not the best person to ask about Milwaukee. There are people who post on this board who have a lot more park knowledge than I do, and I will defer to them on the specifics you are asking about. Should be easy enough for you to reach out to them directly, and perhaps even arrange a walk through the park to exchange ideas. At least one is still in the area, to the best of my knowledge. The wall that bisects the pedestal runs just a few degrees off of true N/S. Since the horse and rider are perpendicular to the wall (and benches), they face just a few degrees south of due east. Which means that one leg (of the rider) is on the north side of the horse, and one leg of the rider is on the south side of the horse. The difference is minimal (about the width of the pedestal) but if you are looking for precision, I suggest you pay attention to the leg (and foot) on the south side. So, like the verse says, the southern foot, not the southernmost part of the monument (including patio) as a whole. Hope that helps.

Thanks....southern foot (in line with it) vs southernmost (position of the monument)....I see what you're saying. (I'm dense, but eventually, I get it.) I haven't reached out to any of the old Milwaukee searchers, yet, because they're not as active as they used to be, lurking more often than not since the influx caused by Gate's show. I don't want to be just another new guy, pestering them to pick their brains. However....unless he's moved, it looks like Shadowrunner (Eric Gasiorowski) lives in my town and teaches at the local JR College. That would be an awesome meeting. (Although, I don't want to pester him, either.)

Mister EZ wrote:: Thanks....southern foot (in line with it) vs southernmost (position of the monument)....I see what you're saying. (I'm dense, but eventually, I get it.) I haven't reached out to any of the old Milwaukee searchers, yet, because they're not as active as they used to be, lurking more often than not since the influx caused by Gate's show. I don't want to be just another new guy, pestering them to pick their brains. However....unless he's moved, it looks like Shadowrunner (Eric Gasiorowski) lives in my town and teaches at the local JR College. That would be an awesome meeting. (Although, I don't want to pester him, either.) I say pester everyone and have a flash mob at Wolcott. Everyone bring a digging utensil and find that casque!

Unknown: I say pester everyone and have a flash mob at Wolcott. There's probably a happy middle ground. Just look at what's happening in San Francisco.

"Bad news, gman, goonies and ren: The probe says it's deeper." -- Mister EZ

Mister EZ wrote:: "Bad news, gman, goonies and ren: The probe says it's deeper." -- Mister EZ I bet BP got super sauced on Pabst Blue Ribbon and didn't know when to stop digging!

ill actually be there very soon.

I don't want to be the guy to throw cold water on all of this, but I did in fact probe the ground on all sides of the Erastus Wolcott statue about 4 years ago as far as I could and I came up empty handed. There is a layer of concrete that is not too far down, which leads me to doubt it could have ever been buried there.

Reubnick wrote:: I don't want to be the guy to throw cold water on all of this, but I did in fact probe the ground on all sides of the Erastus Wolcott statue about 4 years ago as far as I could and I came up empty handed. There is a layer of concrete that is not too far down, which leads me to doubt it could have ever been buried there. Please post any thoughts or photos you might have. Thanks! gManTexas

Reubnick wrote:: I don't want to be the guy to throw cold water on all of this, but I did in fact probe the ground on all sides of the Erastus Wolcott statue about 4 years ago as far as I could and I came up empty handed. There is a layer of concrete that is not too far down, which leads me to doubt it could have ever been buried there. How about 100 paces off the statue? Or how far out of the statue did you probe?

Reubnick wrote:: I don't want to be the guy to throw cold water on all of this, but I did in fact probe the ground on all sides of the Erastus Wolcott statue about 4 years ago as far as I could and I came up empty handed. There is a layer of concrete that is not too far down, which leads me to doubt it could have ever been buried there. Yup. But, recently, somebody dug behind the statue, in a corner along the top concrete slabs....I stuck my probe in that dirt (they had filled the hole back in) and it sunk down 3' to 3.5'.....no concrete there. (Obviously, no casque for the guy who dug, either.)

Unknown: Obviously, no casque for the guy who dug, either. Or not. It's possible that if one were to be dug up in Milwaukee, we might not know the circumstances for a while, or ever. And that's also true for all the other parks where digs are not being supported by the authorities, which is to say most of them.

As most of you know, my solve is the Southern foot of the North Point Water Tower. What I have just added to my solve location is this, ...notice how everyone calls her the Juggler in Image 10? I don't think she's actually juggling but the reason for all these items to be in a circle around our lady in the Cape is that the shape of these objects represent the round-a-bout that goes around the Water Tower. The next interesting thing relating to this is the location of the jewel in the Image. If you cover the top half of the buildings in the muted background you can see the shape of the bottom part of the Water Tower. The jewel in Image 10 is located in the shadow of her cape. This indicates the location of the casque at the Southern Foot of the Water Tower. https://www.theclio.com/web/ul/13669.24168.jpg

Mr. Backstop, What again is your explanation of: You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth

Hi - first post over here. I'm usually over on "The Site that Shall Not Be Named"... @JM, fan of the podcast and just listened to the Milwaukee episode. You talked about the Erastus B. Wolcott monument and its possible link to the "Letter from the country" line. I'm inclined to agree but have an alternate theory as to how. You may be right that the very prominent use of the word 'country' on the monument ties it in, but I'm thinking it's in a general "pay attention to me, this line is about me" sort of way. Here's my take on how there's a deeper connection also. Not much of this is new info, I realize. Apologies if exact theory has been posted before: You'll see a letter from the country - Of wonderstone's hearth From page 30: “With these original emigres went the Fair People’s treasure: the wonderstones of their Litany, encased and protected in treasure casques fashioned by the Nordic Elves…” So a wonderstone is a reference to the jewel. One of the definitions of Hearth is a symbolic reference to one's home. A wonderstone's home is the casque - that's where they live. Which were made by the Nordic Elves. So instead of a reference to the immigration link country - Germany. We may be looking for a letter from Scandinavia. Putting aside old runes for a moment. And assuming its not any old letter, but something that would stand out - we may be looking for a letter like one of these: hxxp://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/125 ... phabet.jpg The letters you mentioned being on the left/south footing on the monument are E, B & W. (His initials). Using a little imagination, you may be able to make either the AE or A with the loop on top from the inscription. hxxp://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/126 ... ption2.JPG Which might also fit with the next line if the fifth is a one-star/brigadeer general. The interpretation is not perfect and I'm not saying it's the correct one. Just throwing it out there for consideration/discussion. Any thoughts?

its not scandinavia, the answer is readily available though. ill release it after i go there in about a week.

Kang...! And yeah....Scandinavia, which covers multiple countries. In your proposal, based on the map in the book and the text in the book, you're specifically referring to Norway and it's alphabet....right?

why not denmark?!

The map on page 10 points inbetween Norway and Sweden as 'Scandia', home of the elves who made the casques...closer to Norway, imho. And, the Swedish Alphabet doesn't contain the AE. (Does contain the °A.) Denmark is further South. But yes, the Danish Alphabet does have both letters....

https://mki.wisc.edu/content/ethnic-gro ... background And....scroll down to 'Scandinavians in Wisconsin'. "Norwegians were the earliest and most numerous of the Scandinavian peoples to settle in Wisconsin" Yup....there were Dane's. But, the Norwegians outnumbered them....second only to Germans as foreign born immigrants to the state.

i like this puzzle accounting for the inclusion of scandinavia, in the sense you just posted...but its def not the country of wonderstone's hearst...

Mister EZ wrote:: And yeah....Scandinavia, which covers multiple countries. In your proposal, based on the map in the book and the text in the book, you're specifically referring to Norway and it's alphabet....right? Correct, I was referring to Norway and its alphabet. My use of Scandanavia was shorthand for a group of countries with a mostly shared alphabet. I should have been more precise. Also, I'm not suggesting this changes the immigration reference country - Germany. Nor does it really make Scandia 'part of this puzzle.' But it is part of the book and the underlying story. And happens to provide a way to resolve what this line means rather neatly. We may be looking for a letter from that region. Whether or not the EBW monument provides that letter is a related, but separate question entirely. It might be the right verse interpretation but the letter might be elsewhere.

JoshCornell wrote:: .....the country of wonderstone's hearst ... Ah....using that other guy's 'change words at random because the book had typos' strategy, huh? wOoT! hxxp://www.hearst.com/

gManTexas wrote:: Please post any thoughts or photos you might have. Thanks! gManTexas gman, These are photos that were taken by the landscape company that updated the area around the Wolcott statue in 2007. If you have pictures of the area today, this gives you some idea of what has been changed.

animal painter wrote:: gman, These are photos that were taken by the landscape company that updated the area around the Wolcott statue in 2007. If you have pictures of the area today, this gives you some idea of what has been changed. Thx! I really appreciate that. I listened to the podcast for MKE last night, you are internet famous!!

I’m glad the podcast brought Josh back into this thread lol. I actually was going to mention you by name while doing it, but I decided against it. I just wanted to back up what JM said in the podcast and let people know that security has been watching the park. The holes around Wolcott are just lame people. I get it, we all want to find it. But when and if you dig a hole, do everyone and the park a favor and fill it back in. It would be great if the park would work with us and want to be involved to find this and then end this hunt, but saying they want to keep it only fuels people to dig in the night. I love lake park and it’s a beautiful place to go. Last year when the Pokémon rage was going on people were just destroying the park and making it horrible. I would hope the people in here looking just do the right thing.

Hi All. Quick question for Milwaukee searchers. I understand that there has never been any documented birch trees on Lincoln Memorial (?) near the proposed dig site. Is there evidence that birch trees existed at the alternate location on the path above where the lions are past the lighthouse ?

i just posted full solution, considering i went to red herring.

you only need one birch...and it would have been near to where the well is that people call the millstone. the pass three refers to bridges, in line with the clear bridge theme in the milwaukee puzzle.

JoshCornell wrote:: you only need one birch...and it would have been near to where the well is that people call the millstone. the pass three refers to bridges, in line with the clear bridge theme in the milwaukee puzzle. that's the part I don't understand! How do people even ends up over that "millstone" spot??? both SouthEast and staying West should get you to the opposite end near where the Lions are....am I wrong? and on google map, what is that red spot in 43°03'53.4"N 87°52'14.8"W?

the alternate reading of the proud tall fifth clue is a musical reading via an italian (italian theme intro'd at smith mansion) musician and publication from boston...this gives us a 3:2 ratio (one two three step one two step), which you use to get to the treasure. first three steps give us our starting location, and first action (hartford and downer at downer college). at a distance in time is an allusion that is used to tell us that history can only be understood in retrospect; context can only be derived after a period of time has passed...this takes us to the history dept at UWM in holton hall. 4th and fifth steps get us to our next location...two blocks away at downer and kenwood (passing mitchell hall on the way). fifth sixth and seventh clue take us to marietta which is 4 blocks from downer and kenwood (walking now along kenwood)...the logic here is that a distance in space is so large that it is measured with integers...because our number is two...we use 2 squared...to get 4...4 blocks. silently playing directs us to move south (toward pabst theatre). step on nature cast in copper gives us lake park, path to pabst takes us along lincoln in combination with latter clue. next three tell us to go to grand staircase (previously alluded to when we are taken to the wisconsin club on wisconsin ave via the cape/awnings (similar to ones on pabst mansion down the street, alluding to pabst theatre being the silently playing clue)). reach, tells us we have reached a turning point and must cross the lake park footbridge and turn to follow the stairs down to the locust trail. next two clues direct us to the culvert under the bridge where locust trail meets ravine rd. we turn around and walk the 100 paces along the locust trail to where ravine rd meets lincoln memorial drive (on oak leaf trail pathway)...there was a birch likely by the old well that people call the millstone. (using next three clues) pass three (bridges) staying west, to a letter from the country...which i assume is a letter on a plaque on a statue like on the german statue outside washington park. (note: youll have to climb the grand staircase for a second time!!! hence why there are two clues alluding to the staircase, implying we must climb it twice) clues 19-21 tell us we must go to the water tower, and look for the letter S or A (as wonderstone is from south africa...when we get there we see the sign about it being niagara limestone, but if we look this up its from wauwatusa (alluded to by the cream city bricks seen in the collar of the character)). final two clues give us location to dig at S foot of water tower.

Spiritr wrote:: that's the part I don't understand! How do people even ends up over that "millstone" spot??? both SouthEast and staying West should get you to the opposite end near where the Lions are....am I wrong? and on google map, what is that red spot in 43°03'53.4"N 87°52'14.8"W? One of the interesting parts these puzzles is the "blue highlighted color" around certain parts of the images in each Image. In this one the "blue" is around the lady's head, shoulders and down around her hand. It's also around the red "tee marker" above her right hand. Also notice the key is above that red ball telling us that this is one of the main keys to unlocking the puzzle. I took it to mean that getting West of the Par 3 golf course in the Park was crucial. And when I found myself continuing to the West until I was passed the Par 3 I came upon the North Point Water Tower. It just depends on how you decipher the Image and Verse to where your solve takes you. Many people criticized me for this solve, including Josh (he finally came around to this spot), but it's where I believe the casque is buried.

Whiterabbit, I really really think you nailed it when you compared the pose of Solomon Juneau's plaque scene to this painting. I also think the identifier of his being the first Postmaster in MKE cements that connection and is what served as an inspiration for how Byron Preiss built this puzzle.

well the hand position is from juneau statue, the hood is from the characters on Johnston Hall, the cape is from the assissi painting, and the face is from the lion

There were for sure birch trees along ravine road near the "mill stone" sewer cap. There still IS at least one birch stump but it is dug up and its location may have changed. I saw it 2 weeks ago when i was at the park. I have found old photos online showing birch stumps. There was no pattern or three in a row or anything like that. I don't know if there were ever birch trees on any other trail in the park. I disagree that there is any evidence that there weren't any. The trails were rehabbed (totally changed) some time in the early 2000's I believe, as I have found photos of trails in different conditions including very barren looking. I don't know the dates of the photos. All of this can be found with a few google searches. My biggest question is why narrow down the clue to a number of paces and then after that have people walk for blocks to some other location?? That doesn't make sense to me. Anyway I just wanted to clear up some speculation I saw here.

kpenguins wrote:: There were for sure birch trees along ravine road near the "mill stone" sewer cap. There still IS at least one birch stump but it is dug up and its location may have changed. I saw it 2 weeks ago when i was at the park. I have found old photos online showing birch stumps. There was no pattern or three in a row or anything like that. I don't know if there were ever birch trees on any other trail in the park. I disagree that there is any evidence that there weren't any. The trails were rehabbed (totally changed) some time in the early 2000's I believe, as I have found photos of trails in different conditions including very barren looking. I don't know the dates of the photos. All of this can be found with a few google searches. My biggest question is why narrow down the clue to a number of paces and then after that have people walk for blocks to some other location?? That doesn't make sense to me. Anyway I just wanted to clear up some speculation I saw here. k, I see what you are saying with you ideas but I think you are flawed with your thoughts that the puzzle is narrowed down to a number of paces. I don't see it as being narrowed down at all, just the opposite. It's just a part of the journey.

kpenguins wrote:: There were for sure birch trees along ravine road near the "mill stone" sewer cap. There still IS at least one birch stump but it is dug up and its location may have changed. I saw it 2 weeks ago when i was at the park. I have found old photos online showing birch stumps. There was no pattern or three in a row or anything like that. I don't know if there were ever birch trees on any other trail in the park. I disagree that there is any evidence that there weren't any. The trails were rehabbed (totally changed) some time in the early 2000's I believe, as I have found photos of trails in different conditions including very barren looking. I don't know the dates of the photos. All of this can be found with a few google searches. My biggest question is why narrow down the clue to a number of paces and then after that have people walk for blocks to some other location?? That doesn't make sense to me. Anyway I just wanted to clear up some speculation I saw here. via my visit we know you dont stay on the path...i did that...and it leads you a) to a location that doesnt fit precisely and b) is at the foot of a burial mound...so you have to go back up the grand staircase again and turn in the other direction. instead of going back down the path.

because he makes it a bit of a trick with the climb the gs twice thing...he takes you up the gs, over the lp footbridge, down the stairs to the path, forward to the culvert then back to the oak leaf trail via the paces, you are then back at the foot of the gs...so you go up it again (hence why it is referenced twice)...turn the opposite direction...and pass over three bridges (in line with bridge theme in mw)...to make way to what is the best spot we have yet. by far.

kpenguins, the key is getting to the West of the Par 3 Golf course. Once you get: To the first young birch Pass three, staying west You'll see a letter from the country Of wonderstone's hearth On a proud, tall fifth You have to get to the West of the Par 3 to solve the rest of the puzzle. I see lots of people who are South or East of the Par 3 in their solves. And of course if you don't think that that is the key as I do, then there are many other paths to explore. Best of luck to you.

Let's check out the small sliver of artwork on the right hand side of Image 10. I am curious as to everyone's idea with this clue. To me this looks just like one of the Gable/Finials at the top of the North Point Water Tower.

I had a thought that you can please pass along; please check the base of General Douglas MacArthur Statue at Veterans Memorial Park. Pass Compass Point Park, not Compass Point Lighthouse. There are 3 flagpoles next to the MacArthur statue (which is over 9 feet tall). Gen MacArthur Earned his 5th Star and the monument was completed in 1979 (fresh dirt to dig in back then). There is possibly of a slight image of the arm of the statue in the upper left quadrant of the print. Any thoughts?

jgivv wrote:: I had a thought that you can please pass along; please check the base of General Douglas MacArthur Statue at Veterans Memorial Park. Pass Compass Point Park, not Compass Point Lighthouse. There are 3 flagpoles next to the MacArthur statue (which is over 9 feet tall). Gen MacArthur Earned his 5th Star and the monument was completed in 1979 (fresh dirt to dig in back then). There is possibly of a slight image of the arm of the statue in the upper left quadrant of the print. Any thoughts? Yup...fresh dirt. Back then. But, not in Veteran's Park....until 2014....it was originally in MacArthur Square before then. https://city.milwaukee.gov/cityclerk/hpc/War-Memorials-of-Milwaukee/MacArther-Statue.htm#.W4zlNvlOlGp "Dedication of the statue took place on June 8th, 1979 in MacArthur Square, with MacArthur's widow Jean MacArthur in attendance. The Pulaski High School band provided ceremonial music, and West Point cadets from Wisconsin were there to be a part of the ceremony. Decades later, in October of 2013, the statue received attention as debate began about the possibility of moving it. Veterans and civic leaders felt that it didn't get much attention in MacArthur Square, which over the years had become an underutilized park space. "It's such a waste to have him over there," said Ted Hutton, a retired Allen-Bradley executive. "Most people don't even know the statue exists." Marine Corps veteran Mike Balistriere said,"Right now, that statue isn't very visible to folks . . . It doesn't get a lot of attention. But it will at the War Memorial." Support was garnered to move the statue to a new spot in Veteran's Park on the lakefront, and after much planning the move occurred on May 29, 2014."

Goldengate wrote:: In the interest of preserving the original Milwaukee Image 10 discussion thread... Yeah, in case it hasn't been stated, I believe that the juggler's collar, which looks like bricks, represents the patio around the Wolcott statue. I also believe the casque is (or was) near the south side of said patio.

Just going to drop this here today. I've been working on various pages in the book to find other clues. Here is what I came up with for Milwaukee thus far. Let me know if you see any other clues. There could be more for Milwaukee or other cities as well.

There are birches in at least three locations as you can see from the referenced document from the Friends of Lake Park however they are in different areas and at least some appear to be more recent additions from the comments. Birches grow quickly so pre-1981 smaller stumps would be at least 30 years old and trees from that era would be at least 40-70 feet tall. It does not identify the trees in the area you are looking, however I am not convinced that birch relates to trees or at least not those trees. hxxp://lakeparkfriends.org/wp-content/u ... k-2016.pdf

Has anyone ever considered that the three primary colors in the painting are gold, blue, and red which correspond to the three colors displayed by the flame on the top of the Wisconsin Gas Company building? This flame / light may be the reference to the compass in Verse 8 as this was used by ships on Lake Michigan for navigation purposes.

Here is a link to some 1987 photos of Lake Park. https://www.loc.gov/item/wi0185/

HI everyone, New to the forum but have been working on the Milwaukee one for a few years. Don't have any new theories but have a thought that i'm sure has been said before. If you look at Chicago and Cleveland the burial spot was near or in a man made object. Chicago in a park near a fence that was pictured, and Cleveland literally in a man made planter. So where ever it is in Milwaukee it's gotta be near something man made not just some random tree. Would be way to hard to pick out one tree in an entire park full of them. Also that object has to be in the picture. So either that man made object is now gone or we can't see it in the picture. Thoughts?

yes and if it follows suit then the manmade object is pictured in the image. i.e the fence and fixture in chicago and the wall in cleveland Welcome!

Here's an interesting conversation happening in the blog, Maybe Verse 8 isn't Milwaukee? viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7998

And maybe the Earth is flat. There are those who believe that...

Hi, I'm new to the forum. I've been trying to read through all the posts related to the Milwaukee search (wow, there are a lot!). I was wondering something. Has anyone given the area where Lincoln Memorial Drive turns onto E Ravine Rd a good searching through? The birch trees aren't there anymore, but I was wondering if anyone tried randomly probing the area or maybe used a GPR there since the area between the millstone/sewer cap thing (that isn't there anymore) and the road isn't all that big of an area, assuming he would have buried somewhat close to the path. Seemed like the area was discussed for a bit, but the discussion fizzled out, so it wasn't clear to me if someone tried and didn't find anything or if the area was dismissed for some reason. Neal

nealday wrote:: Hi, I'm new to the forum. I've been trying to read through all the posts related to the Milwaukee search (wow, there are a lot!). I was wondering something. Has anyone given the area where Lincoln Memorial Drive turns onto E Ravine Rd a good searching through? The birch trees aren't there anymore, but I was wondering if anyone tried randomly probing the area or maybe used a GPR there since the area between the millstone/sewer cap thing (that isn't there anymore) and the road isn't all that big of an area, assuming he would have buried somewhat close to the path. Seemed like the area was discussed for a bit, but the discussion fizzled out, so it wasn't clear to me if someone tried and didn't find anything or if the area was dismissed for some reason. Neal Hey Neal welcome Turns out GPR isn't all that great at finding something like a casque very good at locating disturbed soil though. but it is safe to say in that park over the last 30+ years all the soil has been disturbed to some point or another. When you say isn't all that big of an area Lets say you have it down to a 5'x5' area you can either dig up the whole area. 5x5x4x40 = 4000ibs of soil (2 tons) or just probe it, 25 square feet you would need to probe every 4 inches to be assured of not missing a 5 in target. or 15x15 probes or 225 times in a 5' square

I haven't tested the idea out to get a time on it, but I was thinking about pre-drilling some holes into a 2'x4' plywood template. Like you say, they would have to be about 4" apart, so I think that would make for about 55 holes in that size template. If it's reasonable to probe 2 holes/minute, each section would take about 30 minutes. It be some work, but with a couple friends helping, we might be able to knock out a good sized area over the course of a few hours. I'm not sure what to expect for false positives with the probing though. Too many of those would probably derail the effort. I imagine I'd probably need to get park permission for something like this too. Sounds like they haven't been allowing people to search much lately, but the area by that footbridge is under construction right now, so maybe they'd be agreeable to it. Neal

nealday wrote:: I haven't tested the idea out to get a time on it, but I was thinking about pre-drilling some holes into a 2'x4' plywood template. Like you say, they would have to be about 4" apart, so I think that would make for about 55 holes in that size template. If it's reasonable to probe 2 holes/minute, each section would take about 30 minutes. It be some work, but with a couple friends helping, we might be able to knock out a good sized area over the course of a few hours. I'm not sure what to expect for false positives with the probing though. Too many of those would probably derail the effort. I imagine I'd probably need to get park permission for something like this too. Sounds like they haven't been allowing people to search much lately, but the area by that footbridge is under construction right now, so maybe they'd be agreeable to it. Neal a boroscope costs 35$ on amazon. but you would basically have to scope every rock you hit.