the upper mask is a Fang Ngil type. the lower face is in the shape of a baseball home plate.  (Detroit Lions?)

Detroit Lions are a football team. My former college roommate currently has my copy of the book, but as I recall, there may have been something hidden in the lion's mane.  For anyone who has the book --- is there anything there?

Just an observation.  Look at the strange mask behind the butterfly.  There appears to be what may be the letter h or n over the left eye.  There is a line that goes up from where the nose would be and continues over the left eye.  It looks to me to be a small letter n.  Now, not using the line added, just use the outline over both eyes......m.  Hmmm, looks like I'm back to where I started with this....how interesting.

The upper part of the mask appears to be a map.  It actually looks like the southern part of Africa, with the Island of Madagascar thrown in.  I can't seem to fit it with any U.S. location however. Has anyone taken the time to look at the lion's hair --- I believe something is hidden in it --- letters or numbers.

Yes Egg, there do appear to be several letters/numbers scattered throughout the lions mane...I have not been able to make neither heads nor tails of them though. The part of the mask I was referring to is located just above the eyes.  I see what you refer to as maplike.  Now, what would one of my posts be without a stretch?  Here goes: Excluding the smaller specks/dots/formations low on the mask, you have (from left to right) what are similar (once again, not exact matches) to Texas, Florida & and 2 formations that could be any number of states.  IF this is the case, than you have 4 states.....which again leads me to my possible burial site of being the Four Corners area.  There are many other things within this P which also leads me there. I have tentatively paired this P with V1 which I have also found things which could point me here.  Unfortunately, I have yet to locate the "982" which Cat has found in a park in Houston....still looking for that one.

I believe this image falls under the following theme: April (4 o'clock) Diamond Daisy African Theme "Africa's Diamond, earth-born star, Bright harvest of the midnight rock."

The Florida in the mask really jumped out at me.  I don't think the other shapes in the mask are important.  Also, Florida has a lot of theme parks and whatnot.  The lion face looks familiar, like something from a zoo advertisement. Also the Florida shape suggests either central or Southern Florida (Orlando, Tampa, Miami, etc) Google: Florida + lion +safari + park = hxxp://www.lioncountrysafari.com/info/history.shtml Lion Country Safari, Florida opened in 1967, in rural Western Palm Beach County. At the time it was the first drive through safari park in the country and introduced a new concept to animal lovers, "The Cageless Zoo." The opening generated enormous interest on the part of residents, visitors to South Florida, and the media. The park developed into a popular and successful attraction. No easy link to the pear yet.

My initial impression of the mask has always been that it is a map of New York City. Manhatten in the center.  Queens and Brooklyn are to the east.  New Jersey is to the west.  Staten Island to the southwest.  Roosevelt Island is in the East River between Manhatten and Queens. Maybe on Roosevelt Island?  Teddy Roosevelt liked to go on Safari.  A statue of him stands outside the museum of Natural History, which contains many African artifacts. However, I never felt that anything else in the picture led to New York.

You're right, it does appear to be New York City.  I just spent a little time with an online atlas and it does appear to be a closer match to NYC than the state of Florida, although it's swapped East-West. Mind you, they are about the same shape, and Florida has Cape Canaveral (NASA) about where the island is, but I think you're right, it's NYC.

Well, despite my conjecture, I've always felt stronger that image 12 actually represented New York. The woman standing over the water has the face of the Statue of Liberty. Also, the head of the eagle looks exactly like the eagle on the Chrysler building. One thing to look at in the book:  There is a map that shows how the fairies traveled from Europe to America.  Each group has a horizontal line from their country of origin heading east. Maybe the lines intersect with the state that the fairies settled in?  Tie this together with the type of stone each fairey had from the verse on pp 20-21 and the picture of the stone in each image to figure out what image goes with what state? What do you think?

Unknown: One thing to look at in the book:  There is a map that shows how the fairies traveled from Europe to America.  Each group has a horizontal line from their country of origin heading east. Maybe the lines intersect with the state that the fairies settled in?  Tie this together with the type of stone each fairey had from the verse on pp 20-21 and the picture of the stone in each image to figure out what image goes with what state? The problem with this theory is regarding the information that one casque resides in Canada and the rest in the United States.  By simply extrapolating those straight lines on a latitudinal map, the top 3 or 4 (at least) could be in no location other than Canada because they are so far north -- unless I am mistaken. I had wanted this map to be an additional clue very badly, but if it is, it doesn't appear to be that simple.

The hair of the lion has, from left to right, the numbers 33, 79 (upside down), 80, and 36. Using Fox's latitude/longitude idea, this could indicate South Carolina (Charleston, Columbia, etc.).  We would have to ignore the 36 to do that. If you ignore the 33 and use 36, you get to North Carolina. However, I was just looking at Mapquest, and Charleston SC is almost an exact match to the coastline on the map.  Bingo!  just zoom in one time, and pan north: [url]hxxp://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?searchtype=address&formtype=search&countryid=250&addtohistory=&country=US&address=&city=charleston&state=sc&zipcode=&h istoryid=&submit=Get+Map[/url] The main street in downtown Charleston is "King" Street (king of the jungle). Edit:  here's a better map: hxxp://www.aliensonearth.com/catalog/maps/loc/32/079/324500t0795230.shtml

The coastline is almost an exact match. I'm sold on this one being Charleston. I found the following on Charleston-related website ( hxxp://www.charlestonlowcountry.com/abo ... gtour.html ) "The washers at the ends of the rods can be seen on the outside of the homes. I noticed that several of the washers had been covered with decorative metal lions’ heads. There is a definite lion theme in this area. It can be seen in statues placed at front doors of homes, lion decorations placed on top of and around buildings, and lion faces forged into the iron gates." Maybe this is the reason for the lion in the picture. Charleston had a minor league baseball team in the early 80's (and still does) which might connect to the image in the shape of a home plate.

You're right that the fruit and branch don't seem to match.  However, that sure looks like a pear.  It just so happens that the name of the main bridge in Charleston, over which goes Rt. 17, is the Silas PEARman bridge.  King Street goes near it, and there appears to be a Martin Park near both of them.  Still researching.............

nice find guys.  stubborn ole fox is still tying this P with NM but if you keep finding finds like these, I may just have to change my mind.........again

--beneath the 33 is a diagonal cross --above and to the left of the 36 (right side of pic, in mane) is a 4, possibly a 45 if the 5 "melts" into the upper half of the 3 in 36 --to the right of the mask is what looks to be a horizontal pole with a "rope" hanging so that this arrangement is in the shape of eyeglasses.  Behind this arrangement of lines is a diagonal line leading up and to the right and then bending up and to the left towards the 36. Does this mean something?  I have no idea. --Johann

ok...2 things.. -in the left portion of the lions hair, there is an 80-rather obvious once you find it  33/80 is lat/long for charleston, SC -also check this link out and tell me its not the creepy EXACT physical shape reference weve been looking for. The river system is depicted in the mask forehead. Directly above Charleston ;] hxxp://terraserver.microsoft.com/image. ... d%20States

* i meant the aerial photo was taken directly above charleston...i didnt mean north of it ;]  :o

gotta love it.  here is another map: hxxp://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?co ... pcode=&sea rch=++Search++

as long as we may be in Charleston and parks seem to be the locale of choice.  A possibility may be: hxxp://sciway3.net/outdoors/park-charlestonhampton.html especially since it is near The Citadel.

very nice find cthree...its obvious that the river system depicted on the mask is definitely charleston SC.

Wow, I must not be getting something.  This info isn't new.  I already identified Charleston with this picture, using the coastline on the mask and the latitude/longitude.  You guys should read an entire thread before posting.

Unknown: This info isn't new.  I already identified Charleston with this picture, using the coastline on the mask and the latitude/longitude. Unknown: very nice find cthree...its obvious that the river system depicted on the mask is definitely charleston SC. Ummm well, sorry you felt the need to issue a negative coment about my post i didnt intend to 'steal' your credit man...i just was posting an actual PICTURE of the coast not just a map. If you ask me the detail in the map i posted is much better than yours. This is a forum for people to discuss and share information-not for people to make discoveries and claim credit. So...how's this-HEY EVERYBODY! DONT THINK IM BETTER THAN EGG OR ANYTHING! HE FOUND THE RIVER IN THE MASK BEFORE ANY OF US!!!!!!  ::) Let's please not let this be about glory. I did in fact read and fully understand the ENTIRE thread and thought i'd contribute an interesting picture i found. Sorry if that offended you!  ;)

Unknown: ok...2 things.. -in the left portion of the lions hair, there is an 80-rather obvious once you find it  33/80 is lat/long for charleston, SC -also check this link out and tell me its not the creepy EXACT physical shape reference weve been looking for. The river system is depicted in the mask forehead. Directly above Charleston ;] hxxp://terraserver.microsoft.com/image. ... d%20States Sorry if I misread your post.  It certainly appeared to me that the above post was you "finding" the "80" in the lion's hair and coming up with the lat/lon of Charleston (which was already done --- not sure why you're saying it again).  It also appeared that you are claiming that Charleston is the same "physical shape reference" of the mask --- the one "we've been looking for" (again, already done).  It doesn't matter to me who found it first, it would just be nice to read posts with new info instead of duplicate information.

assuming there is new info to post thats great! but if not sometimes a rephrasing or rehash of old info, or a comment about or a confirmation of someone elses opinion can spark a new thought or get someones ideas flowing or jumping along a new path.

i agree...if you feel that you might be able to stimulate peoples treasure hunting skills (lol) in any fashion please do! I have seen some pretty ridiculous suggestions but of course they are welsome here! Thats what this board is for-and specific info has been brought up more than once with great results! Keep it up!  8)

I must agree with Falcon.  I have been here since DAY 1 of these boards (actually regenerated interest in the hunt) and had forgotten about the Charleston find.  Had it not been for C3, I would have been off in another new direction (no longer 4Corners Cat  ;) ) with this P. Before anyone steals my glory  :D ------------------------------------ fox Morse Posts: 254 The Secret « on: August 8th, 2001, 1:07am » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- OK folks, time for you guys to dig up & dust off your copies of "The Secret".  I realize the actual prizes are no longer available but the casques are still hidden and wouldn't you like to be the one to finally crack this hunt which has been around since 1982?  If anyone out there would like to colaborate, please email me: [email protected] I have some solid ideas for a lot of the riddles and am really trying to crack one in particular since I believe it is located not far from me. Hope to hear from you soon......... Logged ------------------------------------- now, lets find the Charleston Casque!!!!

hxxp://www.ci.charleston.sc.us/photo_winners041.html

There seems to be a yellow extension between the pear/apple and the daisy.  Also, it looks like the daisy has a bent-down petal. --Johann

Ok then more to let your brain grind: I found an interesting flag from the civil war era. details are as follows: 1775. George Washington’s military secretary, Colonel Joseph Reed, proposed that all American ships fly this Massachusetts Navy flag. The Massachusetts Navy flag was one used by some New England ships before the revolution. It had the red flag of the English Naval ensign with the Union Jack in the corner replaced by an American pine tree. This version of the flag links the regional symbol, a New England pine, with the red, white and blue colors displacing the plain red flag area... The stripes match the order on the -sumter/mask, and the pinetree is of course in the pic--the flag was flown on ships in charleston harbor for sure. Also, early on Cat mentioned that the mask was a Fang Ngil type.--this applies of course to the african theme but keep in mind that this mask signified a judicial responsibility. Ive taken a few looks at courthouses and such.  :)

When I first looked at this picture I was thinking Seattle. But after reading the posts I can see Charleston. So I started to look into it more about the daisy and the pear. With the bent petal, I wonder if that is pertaining to White Point Gardens. Col. Issac Hayne whom was executed there for treason by the British, owned property one of them was called Pear Hill. Is there something pertaining to the state? It seems the pattern is one symbolizes the state the treasure is, then one pinpoints the city, etc.....

Something I have often found myself wondering about this P is why would a location in SC have an african feeling P representing it?  Lions, african masks, etc.....  Does that spell out SC to you....?.....nor I... Until now that is.  And the connection will kick you in the rump. hxxp://www.streetswing.com/histmain/z3chrlst.htm also, look down in the middle of the page where it says alternate pattern names are: Flying Charleston, Hand to Hand Charleston, Crossed Arm Charleston etc....  flying..?..hand to hand..?..crossed arm..?.. sounds kind of like our butterfly lady. hope I'm not the only one who likes this fit...seems pretty concrete to me.

Do the Charleston! Interesting find Fox.

speaking of baseball and fort sumter- abner Doubleday (inventor of baseball) was stationed at the fort and fired the first shot in defense of the fort.

look below the ladies feet, those look like islands along a river. does that match any charleston topography?

Regarding the African connection, my nephew and I were wondering if Charleston was a prominent location for the slave trade.  It has been said that each pic is connected to a group of immigrants, and the Africans were the involuntary immigrants. --Johann

you could pretty much say it was the prominent place. the center of that trade. very good point.

Aaaaahh.  You must be online because you beat me to the answer.  But, thank you.  I realized, just after asking the question, that I could look for the answer myself instead of being lazy.  Here is one example: "As the town boomed, Charleston also became America's major port in the slave trade . . ." (saznj.tripod.com/historyofcsc,html). --Johann

I just got back from a short trip to Charleston, SC. I'm now trying to figure out how to relate the volumes of interesting things ive seen and thought in the past 2 weeks to you guys.Ok---in the beginning i decided that if in fact the Charleston casque was buried in a park, then it would have to be either Francis Marion or Whitepoint Gardens. There are others, including Hampton Park--but that one was quickly eliminated after a few hours in Charleston. Basically the parks other than FM and WPG we either just 'parks' (Hampton-no monuments no real anything besides a 'park') or they had been transformed in a major way--(Marion square has been changed multiple times, but still holds many monuments and such)-We checked Washington Square-Cannon Park-the Old Exchange-Waterfront (even though it was built after the book was published.) and basically decided on White Point. Why? Well there are a few things. Im just going to list them all here-some are further stretches that others so stick with me ;] Before i left the 2 things that stuck out most were the 'king' of the jungle relating to King St., and the designs in the fairies wings reminded me of the cannon covers at the battery. Also the little circles pattern is either the stacks of cannon balls at the battery or just a representation of cobblestone--the cobblestone portion of Charleston is right next to the battery. So thats where we spent most of our time. I also liked the fact that there was a church street as well as king that went straight to the battery. Maybe thats waht the little cross in the lion's hair refers too. Also-a little further out- i thought the things under the lions eyes looked like beaches.  Also we have discussed the strange mark on the african mask. The line that starts from Ft. Sumpter and makes a strange design--. It actually encircles white point perfectly. Fort Sumpter can be actually seen from the battery as well which was another bonus. After a trip to the Library we decided that the Battery had remained relativley unchanged since 1981.  It is a park about 2 blocks long and 1 block wide-relativley small. It is encircled with cannons displaying the cover i like, and has 10 monuments/statues scattered around the park. There is a detailed thread on verse 6--the verse that we focused on for this P--check it out.

I'd be intersted to see an example with a line on only half of the mask in that shape.--All the examples ive found are so old and beat up there is little detail.--We are talking about the same line right? The one that starts on the right at Ft. Sumpter and makes a strange arc up the Charleston Peninsula?--I would really like to see an example of that design in an actual mask--that way i can leave it alone  ;)

thanks for the tour around the park c3. as i stated before, i really like your connections of the lines of the V and the monuments you come across in same order walking through the park...but one thing concerns me.  Although the above mentioned matches fit....I can't help but notice that those monuments (or any other images in the park) match any shape to a tee (as in egg's find in Cleveland).  Maybe each P has different confirmers (not all exact matches)?  The only things in this P are SC-Charleston coastline in strange mask and the small mask similar to Ft. Sumter....other than that...? There is something I just noticed that maybe someone could blow up.  There appears to be [glow=red,2,300]something[/glow] below/behind the pear which extends down behind the flower.  Any ideas what this is?  Once we figure out what it is...maybe we are to look for a pair of them since they are behind a pear.

I received the Cleveland paper describing egg's find today and noticed the clues mentioned around P4 near the end of the article.  One that stood out was the flower above the bell = Bellflower Rd.  Now, is there anything like this in P2?  I was focusing on the small mask (Ft. S) and was trying to use the lines on the cheek along with the star on the cheek but could not come up with a Starline or Linestar nearby. Just something else to consider....

I am probably going to get flamed for this (especially from Cat) but here goes. Although the Charleston coast seems quite obvious on the large mask....there are so many other things in this P that keeps leading me back to NM.  sorry cat. 1.  also on the large mask a.  there seems to be an obvious letter outlining the left eye (n)...now going over both eyes could be an (m) = NM? b.  look at the lines extending down from the eyes of the mask.  I think they look very similar to the NM state flag : hxxp://educationamerica.net/facts/flags/nm_flag_l.gif ...known as a Zia symbol. 2.  The smaller mask clock (yes...shaped as Ft Sumter) could also represent a style of a Hopi indian kachina mask.  These masks, interestingly enough have many types of symbols displayed on the cheeks: " Harold S. Colton (12) describes the five types of masks manufactured by the Hopi: [glow=red,2,300]a face mask made of leather[/glow], a half-mask for the upper half of the face; a circular mask; a spherical sack mask; and a helmet mask. This latter type, as the most characteristic kachina mask, is a cylinder formed from rawhide with a circular top piece sewn on to the top. The painting of each type is different and such various accessories as ears, noses, snouts and horns are attached. Most are ornamented with feather headresses. No attempt is made at realism when painting a mask that represents an animal or plant Kachina because the mask does not represent the object itself but the spirit of the object that is visualized as having a human form. Paint color is significant as it is symbolic and indicates the direction from which each Kachina came. Hence, Kachina masks painted yellow, green, red or white denote one of the Hopi six directions: a. [glow=red,2,300]Yellow refers to the North or Northwest[/glow]; b. [glow=red,2,300]Blue-green refers to the West or Southwest[/glow]; c. [glow=red,2,300]Red refers to the South or Southeast[/glow]; d. White refers to the East or Northeast; e. All the above colors taken together refer to the Zenith or (the direction) “up”; f. Black refers to the Nadir or (the direction) “down.” Furthermore, symbols serving as important distinguishing marks are often painted on the forehead or [glow=red,2,300]cheeks[/glow] of the mask. The principle symbols can be classified as: a. Animals and bird tracks; b. [glow=red,2,300]Celestial symbols [/glow]such as clouds, lightning, sun, moon, and [glow=red,2,300]stars[/glow]; c. Vegetable symbols: corn, flowers, cactus, etc.; d. A pair of vertical lines under the eyes represents the footprint of a warrior; e. An inverted “V” over the mouth indicates certain kachina officials; f. Phallic symbols represent fertility. " 3.  a pear in NM?  perhaps a prickly pear cactus?  hxxp://www.davidpride.com/USA/NewMexico/NM_02.htm  note the coloration of the cactus flowers compared to the pear in the P. 4.  the tree limb in P is the Pinon Pine or the state tree of NM hxxp://www.50states.com/tree/newmexico.htmnote , most pines have single needles while this pine contains double needles...which are very noticeable on the upper branch farthest to the left in P2.  Also, could the pear hanging on the pine = pair or double needles? I know Cat......I'm sorry, just had to air my thoughts.  Is there anyway NM ties into Charleston since that coastline is hard to dismiss? just more to bandy about......    :-X

Awesome thats all i can say.... never say die fox  ;)

Where on the mask is the "is"? I see the "23" but it looks like a "73"...

Unknown: (deleted) Rob, why are you deleting all your posts?

over on the numbers/letters thread. Rob felt some numbers he spotted weren't taken seriously enough. I tried his email and it bounced. I think he's quit. Hopefully not.

me too...i meant no harm.

Hello to all.  I'm new at this, just getting into The Secret, but wanted to interject something if it would be alright. Consensus seems to be that the flower in the picture is a daisy, but when I saw it, the first thing in my mind was a dandelion blossom.  This would be the second lion reference (dent de lion -- "lion's tooth" in French) in the image, and it also occurred to me that the Masquerade pictures have lots of dandelions. Anyway, for what it's worth....

Thats really good Thats the kind of thing that if he didn't use it, he should have...

Lions....hmmmm.

Peeling a pear for the kids last night, I got to thinking about the pear in the image.  Everything else in the image has a coherent identity, but this is a willfully created hybrid, a pear growing on a pine tree (no relation).  As it was that deliberate, shouldn't it mean something? So I couldn't go to sleep without a reasonable answer, and this is what I came up with: 1.  With a nod to the previous NM theory, the tree is a pinon pine. 2.  The pear is a Bartlett. 3.  Therefore, this that we see is a Bartlett Pinon. 4.  Pinon can also be spelled pinyon (Webster's says so, and I needed a "y".) 5.  So now it's a Bartlett Pinyon. 6.  I'm not fond of anagrams, but you can make this into Battery Point Ln. 7.  Then I could go to sleep. Battery Point isn't exactly synonymous with White Point Gardens, but it's not far off, either.  A list of fortifications also shows a Battery Point on James Island.  I haven't yet found its exact site on the island, but it must face the harbor and is likely visible from White Point Gardens.

Me likes anagrams  :)

Under Internet Resources, I posted a good website for decoding anagrams: hxxp://www.ssynth.co.uk/~gay/anagram.html have a good time with it cthree. wilhouse

Hey folks, just wanted to post 2 possibilities for this image: I believe it's a possibility that this P represents Boston. Both of these aerial views resembles the mask above the fairy. hxxp://terraserver.microsoft.com/image. ... d%20States hxxp://memory.loc.gov/cgi-bin/map_item. ... eye+view+o f+Boston,+United+States.+T.+Sulman,+del.&style=citymap&legend= One last thing, the baseball home plate. It has the look of a monster. Could this be a reference to Fenway Park, home of the 'green monster'? Also, for some reason I have the urge to associate Verse 9 with this P. The first chapter written in water Perhaps a reference to the Boston Tea Party, which was the start (first chapter) of the American Revolution. Lion perhaps symbolizes King George III? The 'birthmark' on the head of the Lion sort of resembles England. Pear - America's oldest pear tree happens to be the Endicott Pear Tree which was planted in 1852 and actually still stands, although it's located in Danvers which is about 30-60 minutes north of Boston. hxxp://www.ars-grin.gov/ars/PacWest/Cor ... .pear.html I admit, it might be far fetched after you all have already made many more connections with other cities than me but all possibilities are open until it's solved.

Unknown: I admit, it might be far fetched after you all have already made many more connections with other cities than me but all possibilities are open until it's solved. Thanks for your input--you've got the right idea ;]

I have to add this because it seems the most obvious thing to me in the whole picture....glasses. Does anyone else see the eyeglasses on the far right above the fairy wing and next to the mask? They jump out at me and I don't think I'm out on a limb with this one. "out on a limb" hmm, check that out too.

I've noticed it too.  It could be rope hanging from a horizontal pole, but it is still in the shape of glasses.

I've been reading this and thought of something.  The state fruit of south carolina is the peach.  But it wasn't the peach until 1984.  The secret was published in 1982,  2 years before the state fruit was changed to the peach.  the state fruit before that might have been the pear, and then we would know for sure that the casque was in charleston.  so far i havent been able to find out what the state fruit was in 1982 but i'll keep trying.

I don't believe it had a state fruit prior to 1984!! Ain't that a peach? wilhouse

that sure is the Pits wilhouse...

33 79/80 is the latitude and longitude of Charleston SC. There are lots of posts i know but if you read them a bit it explained. I like your idea on the poet but it seems kind of unrelated. is there anything connecting her to SC? Also if you could make an image of the ship you see above pear that would be awesome. Im trying hard to see it but have no frame of reference. Good to have you!  :)

The clock seems to most obviously be pointing us towards Ft. Sumter.  The casque may be nowhere near the fort but we believe this is what got us in the general vacinity of SC.

A couple of thoughts -- I believe the 'pine' limbs are actually cypress (do a google image search on 'cypress leaf').  The cone of the cypress tree is pear-shaped (though not as nicely as the pear in the picture).  There is also a bush called a cypress-daisy (I don't know what it looks like). Where is this leading?  Cypress Gardens is just outside Charleston.  It also has a butterfly house (though it was added in the 90's).

Intersting finds.  The fairy's hair has been bugging me, and I recently found this: It's the gate outside the Miles Brewton House at 27 King St (about 2 blocks north of WPG).  google the house to read about the history, and it could definitely tie in. - Jambone

I don't know if it is related or just a weird coincidence, but this sandbar just south of Charleston looks a lot like the fairy's wings.

Has anyone seen this?  Located just a tad northeast of Charleston.  It's an ariel shot with # 80 just sitting there.  I believe it's Bull Island in SC. hxxp://terraserver.microsoft.com/image. ... Y=9105&W=1 The shape looks like Charleston.

Okay, here's a summary and some new thoughts to go along with the Charleston picture. The pentagon mask is a clear reference to Fort Sumter, given the map of Charleston on the mask, as Egbert pointed out. The latitude and longitude add confirmation. The African connection certainly has to do with the city's history of slavery. People have already noted the numbers in the lion's mane: 79, 80, 33, and 36. The first three refer to latitude and longitude, but what is the 36? Is it 36? Johann notes a possible 45 on the right side as well. Johann also notes that there is also what appears to be a cross in the lower left portion of the mane: Why a lion? Egbert speculates King Street as a reason (king of the jungle), but I am hesitant to accept that. SoonerFan notes that there are lion symbols all over town. I suspect this is so because Charleston was named for King Charles II of England, whose coat of arms was covered with lions. Here's a thought: given that we know the upper mask has a map on it, do we really need more maps? It looks as if several parts of this picture may be maps: (1) the trail of mist at the girl's feet resembles a river with islets, but nothing in the Charleston area exactly matches the pattern. There is a section of the Wando River north of Charleston that resembles it, but it isn't exact (and would have to be reversed anyway); (2) the birthmark on the lion's forehead looks like a map of some sort; (3) the lion's "hairline" (for lack of a better term) seems very regular, and not at all like a hairline ought to. It may represent a coast or shoreline; (4) the white portions on the girl's wings could be shorelines; (5) the pattern of twigs in the conifer looks like a road map. If any of these are not maps, what could they be? The twig pattern: There is a little 'n' or 'h' on the upper mask, formed by the nose and eye (a few people pointed this out).

The pear, the daisy, and the conifer may constitute a rebus as in P10 (mill+walk+key) and P4 (bell+flower) (but if it is a rebus, it doesn't spell out South Carolina or Charleston. I think the map on the upper mask is the only clue to the city). Now I'm no botanist, but the tree in question may be a bald cypress. Is anyone here wise in the ways of conifers? I need to visit the book store anyway; maybe I'll take a printout of our mystery tree with me and consult the Audubon guide while I'm there. As for the pear, think "pair of..." or "pair on" = "peron," etc. Egbert notes the Silas Pearman Bridge exits Charleston to the east. The upper mask's eyes are reminiscent of coin slots, the kind you might find on parking meters or viewfinders. Does White Point Gardens / Battery Park have viewfinders so that tourists can look out at Fort Sumter? Do the coin slots look like the mask's eyes, by any chance? The girl's hairdo looks suggestive of... something. If it's not hair, what could it be? She is surrounded by that weird blue nimbus that can be found in 10 of the 12 images. Jambone's idea of the Miles Brewton House gate may be true. Some have asked what the "thing" behind/under the pear might be. The first thing that leapt to my mind was the gigantic Gaffney peach, a watertower built in 1981 in Gaffney, SC in the shape of a peach. It's right by the interstate. The support column under the peach looks kinda like the thing under the pear: The "glasses" on the right side must mean something, otherwise they wouldn't be there. They might turn out to match a wrought-iron design near the casque. bclews pointed out this sandbar to the south of Charleston. Note the resemblance to the butterfly wings in the picture. Also note the change that occurred in less than a year. Imagine how much this sandbar must have changed in 20+ years. Could this be the same thing? New picture from Google is on the left:

I am now even more sure that the tree in Image 2 is a bald cypress. I made a trip to Borders Books today and looked up southeastern conifers. Realistic contenders were some species of yew, fir, spruce, cypress, and hemlock, but only bald cypress had main stems with no needles. All the others had needles even on the thick stems. Given the location (SC), I would say it's definitely bald cypress.

Has anyone ever come across Christ Church College in England during their research for The Secret?  I have and I came across Lewis Carroll"s Alice in Wonderland and The Looking Glass.  Does anyone else see what I see, Alice taking a bite from the mushroom?  Just something way out there.

hey boogie....your links dont work.  would love to see what you found

I don't know why my images keep disappearing, getting quite annoyed.  Anyway, I had mentioned Alice in Wonderland, (I know it's way out there), I tried to show how the upper right wing of the tree angel looks just like a naked statue at Brookgreen Gardens. Links below.  I noticed that the long. and lat. of Charleston is 79 and 32.  At Brookgreen, it's 79+33(lion's hair).  Then I found an old story about a girl named Alice, from the Brookgreen Plantation.  Link just below.  I'm starting to think that everything in the entire world is just a coincidence. hxxp://www.icw-net.com/tales/gtalice.htm hxxp://f4.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0N7vQoRXBu ... kgreen.jpg hxxp://f1.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/0N7vQlWlv9 ... 2-lion.jpg

Another "Alice" reference. hxxp://www.litchfieldplantation.com/litind.htm

hxxp://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/arm ... ing/files/ All images are on this page.  Some of you are members of this group, some will have to join.  Don't know why my pics keep disappearing.  Look under paddyjoecash.

THE SECRET: HOW TO PASS THE DEAD OF NIGHT IN CHARLESTON  ||  cedarCell, Dept. of Investigative TreasureHunting || SUMMARY || In July 2005, I was in the Charleston area and was able to pursue some of the ideas about The Secret, based on information from Pine Tree and C3.  Along with a TreasureHunt accomplice, EZ, we patrolled the park for clues well past 2am.  Several digital photos were taken during the day and can be accessed at hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/cedarcell Many of my photos replicate some of C3's pictures, but I tried to leave constructive comments in the hopes that between C3’s pictures and those of my own, someone could find something of use.    Based on my findings, I have provided some additional information to combine with C3 and Pine Tree’s respective findings, particularly as related to the geometric shape depicted somewhat hazily in the African mask painting in The Secret. Much of this Hunt was conducted under the assumption that the “arch theory” of other parts of the Secret would hold true in Charleston (see Background section, below).  In adhering stringently to this theory, several “good” possibilities were ruled out on this Hunt.  Someone may wish to re-examine some of the avenues ruled out if the opportunity should so arise. || Brief Background on Sources || The observations made were based on the "African" painting from The Secret (image2 in the Q4T files).  Several observations which, with high probability, confirm the location as being Charleston are found elsewhere in this thread on the Q4T site. Following the precedent that clues to the locations of the casques appear under arches drawn into the paintings, our "target" was the geometric shape seen underneath the arch of the eye of the African mask. As there can be multiple approaches to solving this Secret site, I approached it with the assumption that the casque location had to fit the “Arch” theory of the painting.  Findings not fitting the arch theory were ruled out below. Every effort was made to not be redundant with C3’s existing findings, documented in this thread, but some obvious overlaps were nonetheless mentioned for the sake of completeness for this trip report. || A Bird’s Eye View || The ambiguous shape appears to be a hexagon with a rectangular slit in the middle of it.  Directly below it is a blade-shaped outline with three vertical rectangles side-by-side. If the hexagonal shape is taken to be a bird's eye view of a monument, then in three-dimensions, one would be looking for a rectangular slab shaped monument with a hexagonal base.  There are several monuments throughout White Point Gardens, located at the tip of Charleston, which come close, but none which replicate the shape exactly. Many of the monuments are octagonal in shape and as of this past visit, none were found with a hexagonal base. With regards to the rectangular slab, or tablets, there are three in the park:  a monument to sunken submarines, the Hunley ship memorial, and the "Pirate Tablet," described in detail by C3. The submarine tablet does not have a base.  The Hunley tablet, which Pine Tree and I judged to be a likely candidate from C3’s pictures, has a base, but one which is oval-shaped and not hexagonal.  The Pirate tablet has at its feet (see pictures) what appears to be the remnants of a base, but there is no way of knowing what it used to be.  In reviving this hunt two decades after its initial inception, entropy (and re-zoning and tourism) greatly place us at a disadvantage in the present day. || “..between two arms extended..” || This line of the Verses was investigated in much detail by C3.  Two ways to consider this line of the poem: 1) Literal “arms” – As C3 points out, there are two statues, each with one arm outstretched towards the sea.  There is indeed an obvious middle point between the two arms located in the park, which is manifested in a grassy area with exposed earth and sand.  However, if desiring to keep with the “Arch” theory, the trail goes cold here. 2) Military “arms” – A commemorative site for the wartime activities surrounding Charleston’s history, the park is bordered by several different types of cannon, of which those that are able, are fully extended into the sea (refer to cannon pictures).  There are several opportunities of burying a casque between the individual cannon locations. || “..below the bar that binds…” || 1) The Former Gate Theory – There are two stone posts located on the street-side of the Hunley tablet.  These are the only posts in the entire gardens proper.  (As an aside, similar posts appear singularly on the median on the river/sea side (south side) of the gardens).  The two posts are slotted in between.  Pine Tree has suggested that these slots could have possibly been, two decades ago, a place for a gate of some sort.  Beneath the location of the hypothetical gate, however, nothing fitting the arch theory was found. 2) Gazebo Gates – Underneath the octagonal gazebo---the centerpiece to the entirety of the gardens, is a metal gate which appears to lead into the mechanical/electrical area (see photos).  I searched the gate for specifics relating to the arch theory, but none were found. 3) Cannon Struts – This seemed the most likely of all the “bars,” and closely satisfies the arch theory.  The cannon located throughout the entire gardens are filled with bolts: hexagonal bolts.  These bolts hold various support structures of the cannon together.  In several photos, I show the area beneath the cannon.  The cannon are built upon brick foundations.  However, there are loose spots of sand directly beneath the cannon which are not bricked at all.  Upon closer inspection, one will notice that there are metal truss-like structures welded together, suggesting an almost “X” shape which lies directly above the sandy, un-bricked areas.  In all of the park, the only item I found that was hexagonal were the bolts on the cannon.  So, in a sense, a portion of the arch theory is satisfied.  What is not satisfied, however, is the shape drawn underneath the hexagon, mentioned below in the “Bending Blade” section. ||”..beside the long palm’s shadow…”|| As C3 points out, palmetto trees line the entire park.  Some are indeed taller than others, but with 20 years behind us, it is difficult to discern one tree from another.  In continuing with the word play, areas where literal “palms” from the statue’s arms could cast a shadow were investigated, but again, none which adhere to the arch theory. || “..white house close at hand..”  || More hand/palm imagery here.  The north end of White Point Gardens is bordered by a residential street, lined with palmetto trees.  Pine Tree suggested checking out specific white houses, as did C3.  I came up with the same conclusions---nearly every house on the street is painted white (who knows what color they were 20 years ago…).  I’ve included pictures taken from the Hunley tablet, which, along with the Pirate tablet, are the only two monuments of that type near any white houses, if the term is to be taken literally. || How to Stretch a Hexagon || EZ made this observation.  At the eastern end of the gardens, there is a seawall of sorts.  Here, tourists can climb a flight of stairs to get to the top of the seawall/walkway to get a better view of the waterfront.  EZ noticed that the stairs leading up to the seawall are half a hexagon.  There are three or four “sets” of these types of stairways along the seawall.  Following the shape in the arch theory, the rectangular portion is represented on the staircases by a large metal grate.  Also, there are metal hand-rails along the seawall and along the stairs themselves.  While it fit one portion of the arch theory, we weren’t convinced that the bottom half of the arch-theory (see the Bending Blade section below) was sufficiently met. || The Three Paths  || In referring to the shape underneath the African mask eye/ arch, the bottom portion of the shape has three vertical, parallel rectangles spaced along the base of the hexagon.  There were three observations in the gardens made by EZ and myself with regards to possible candidates: 1) There are three paved paths which run parallel to one another along the width of the park.  All the monuments mentioned are found along one of the three paths.  From an aerial view, the arch shape is a good fit for the three paths in the park. 2) The benches in the park are all backed with three parallel boards (See picture). Their shadows cast the same shape (goes without saying, perhaps..haha).  However, throw in the time element of twenty years, and there’s no telling what benches were in the Gardens two decades ago. 3) Some but not all of the lamp posts in the gardens have grooved posts, whose patterns resemble the three rectangles, but they all number more than three and in the areas where said lamp posts are located, the other criteria of the arch theory could not be met (based on mine and EZ’s observations). || The Path of the Bending Blade  || Continuing along the idea that the arch theory shape is an aerial view of the park (see Three Paths section, above)  the curve of the path also matches well with the driving route around the gardens.  The ‘Curve” of the blade-looking path is best represented on the west-end of the park, where a hotel/commercial building stands.  The “blade” part is the road which loops just past its entrance. || Castle Pinckney || Another one of EZ’s observations.  From any map of the Charleston/Charleston Harbor area, there is an island called Shutes Folly in Charleston Harbor, which is accessible by tour boat. The island lies near the intersection of the Ashley and Cooper Rivers (again, referencing C3’s idea of the rivers being the “two arms extended” in Verse 6).  There are ample opportunities for continued exploration there, which were not undertaken on this trip.  It fits well on two other lines from the poem.  The ‘long palm’s shadow’ could be a reference to the nearby Isle of Palm resort island.  Also ‘bar that binds’ could be referring to one of the many sandbars in the harbor leading towards Shutes Folly.  On Shutes Folly is Castle Pinckney, a Civil War era prison which may add to the opportunities of pursuing the arch theory. ||  REMARKS  || Nighttime in Charleston is relatively safe compared to other touristy towns.  The time EZ and I were at the Gardens was a Saturday night, a time when the park is relatively quiet.  Most other people we saw there were couples or high-school aged folks hanging out by the seawall.  Follow common sense and use the buddy system should you also end up in here in the wee hours of the night.  For those interested in giving the Charleston casque a try, I’d suggest going in the day to scope the place out and then return at night when it’s quieter (and cooler). The long street perpendicular to the park on the gardens’ east side is East Bay Street, a popular thoroughfare.  It’s pretty quiet for about three or four blocks, then you run into the Market area of town, where a lot of weekend hot spots are, so you’ll always be a few blocks away from crowds of people.  Police are also visibly present every block or so. If you need some time to clear your head, there’s an independent coffeehouse called Moose Mountain which is a great stop for a caffeine boost.  There’s a sushi place along the way, too, Typhoon, which in my opinion, is forgettable. Be safe and good luck. || cedarCell ||

In case it turns out to be relevant, here is yet another satellite image of bclews' sandbar a few miles SW of Charleston. Note the resemblance to the fairy's wings. Also note how much erosion has occurred since the last photos were posted. I wonder what it looked like in 1982? Worth pursuing?

Can we speculate on what the markings on the lower mask might represent? If the colors red, white, and blue are significant, what could they represent? The U.S.A.? That's hardly helpful. The colors occur in that order on the flag of the Netherlands, though. Could that tie in? And what about the star?

Perhaps this pic can be connected to verse 5.  I will post some info there too.  Hampton Park, near The Citadel, had a lion that could be heard roaring from The Citadel.

I don't know if the colours on my monitor are right, but I see the three stripes on the Fort Sumter-shaped mask as being red, yellow, and green. I looked around a little bit to find West African (Slave Coast) countries' flags and I found these: Burkina Faso: Ghana: Senegal: Togo: The three stripes, the star on the right... might this be a reference to a flag?

In my copy of The Secret , the stripe and star appear much more white than yellow, but it could just be the lighting here.

Anybody notice these two shovels in image2 and 3?  Very closely positioned to #'s in the images. hxxp://www.freewebs.com/patcash/shovels.htm

I'm going to try to post these here. Most of P2 is a map. I've been playing around with Google Earth.  Fun! If the pictures don't post here correctly, check it out at: hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/stercox (Under V2 which should really read P2 sorry)

Patriot's Point has a huge golf course.  Its hard to guess if its the possible dig site or just a marker on the map and the site is further east?  (or where the site really is at all or what the map means or where its leading...) The one fully visiible eye on the large African mask could be a golf club head??

Nice job.  I think we've put it all together now.  We just have to find the right park, and the right verse.

If the cypress stem is a map, which I am inclined to believe, how does it advance the search? We already had enough information to tell this was in Charleston from the harbor map on the mask. Is there something about the map that narrows it down? If stercox is correct about the map, then following it far enough would lead to Sullivan's Island, which has four very big points in its favor. 1. Sullivan's Island has beaches which, when viewed from above, remind one of the edges of our butterfly's wings. 2. It is very close to Charleston, which we know P2 leads us to. 3. As fox noted recently, "Sullivan’s Island, a tiny quarantine station in Charleston harbor, became the Ellis Island of black America.  Thousands of slaves taken from Africa and shipped to America landed here between 1619 and 1808." 4. (and this is my favorite...) Sullivan's Island is where Edgar Allen Poe's famous treasure-hunting story The Gold Bug was set -- and where the treasure was found to be buried. What better place??

And Sullivan's Island has the fort that pre-dated Sumter as it was being built:  Fort Moultrie. The only way into Sullivan's Island is via Ben Sawyer Way... but the military designation is Station 22 1/2. Could this be our: Lane Two Twenty two  ? Or more descriptively... Two Lane Road - Twenty Two.

As a followup to my last post connecting the verse to the image... take a look at the towns homepage (and the historic photos used as its header) hxxp://www.sullivansisland-sc.com The last photo on the right.... unlabled but.... "Beneath the only standing member of a forest to the South" hmm.....

More confirmation of the connection.... hxxp://www.funbeaches.com/Sullivan's-Island.html "Weight and roots extended" "Together saved the site" The defeat of the British due to the plentiful Palmetto Tree.  Recognized on the state seal and flag. Now, seems like a single standing member of a forest. Remember to get permission to dig out. Are we having fun yet?

"Weight and roots extended Together saved the site" Wikipedia, on Fort Moultrie: "The fort was unnamed and not yet complete when Admiral Sir Peter Parker and nine British warships attacked it on June 28, 1776, near the beginning of the American Revolutionary War. Legend has it that the soft palmetto logs did not crack under bombardment but rather absorbed the shot ; in any case, Charleston was saved from capture, and the fort was named for the commander in the battle, William Moultrie." "Of granite walls" Wikipedia, on Fort Sumter: " Seventy thousand tons of granite were imported from New England to build up a sand bar in the entrance to Charleston harbor, which the site dominates." Fort Moultrie is a unit of Fort Sumter National Monument.

NOoooo!  Say it ain't so!  At this point, it's possible.  Ouch

Sulivan's Island's lighthouse ( "Citadel in the night" ?) is kind of famous. Built in 1962, it's known for being: - Just down the street from Fort Moultrie; - One of the most modern lighthouses in the US, perhaps the most powerful; - Being the only lighthouse using an elevator to take Coast Guard personnel to the lantern room for maintenance ( "a wingless bird ascended" ?) The "arc of light" in the verse may be referring to the lighthouse; you would certainly see it, the light being visible from 26 miles out to sea. Also, there seems to be a forest/bunch of trees south of it; the lighthouse could very well be "the only standing member of a forest (to the south)" .

If anyone can see more than I, more power to you, but I can not fathom how to get closer than this without being there. A tree and a white stone... where's waldo?

And...

The cross in the lion's mane:

Why is this an arc of lights ? I don't get it. The arc has to be key, here, the thing that makes you go "ahh, now I get it." I don't get that from the lighthouse.

Actually, in this spot, there are three lighthouses that work in tandom... the one highlighted here, is the most modern and the one at the Fort. I believe, drving down Station 22, the three of them form a spread of lights in front of you. I am using the mathematical image of arc as meaning a space connecting points...

Since the main clue to its location comes from a map would the light not arc from above? I have been watching this for awhile but never had anything constructive to say.....but this really gets the juices flowing

Heh heh. Makes me wonder how many lurkers we have! Here's another idea. What is an "arc light," and do lighthouses make use of them? Alternatively, it's possible that BP is using another of his plays on words here -- like "cast in copper" or "pass the compass" -- that should not be interpreted literally. This is a riddle, after all. Try to think of interpretations of arc of lights that do not involve actual arcs of lights. And welcome, mobhit!

I did a little hunting on that sandbank that so resembles our butterfly's wings. To remind you, it's just south of Charleston at the mouth of the North Edisto River: Turns out it's called Deveaux Bank: hxxp://www.dnr.sc.gov/managed/heritage/deveauxbnk/description.html It sank beneath the waves in 1980, but soon rose again and now supports all sorts of wildlife. I have contacted Clemson's library asking where I can find 1980's-era satellite photos.

Unknown: "Weight and roots extended"  "Together saved the site"  The defeat of the British due to the plentiful Palmetto Tree. I agree with you guys, one of the historical researches I did discusses that Fort Moultrie was defended not just with Palmetto logs (roots extended) but also sand and sand bags (weight).  Looking at pictures of the fort it fits our granite walls and windswept halls as well with the tunnels and chambers that it has.  I'm liking V5 for P2.  A little further research and FYI--the Pearman bridge no longer exists--it was blown up in 2005 and replaced with Ravenel Bridge.  Lane two twenty two and the arc of lights--could this be at a distance viewed across the water from the island?  Also the lighthouse is a strong contender for arcing lights and is a prominent landmark.  This seems like a hot prospect--nice work everybody. Now to find the bird...

No one specfic tree left from a forest to the South. Seems as if you would have to find an original one as opposed to one replanted for landscaping. May take a lot of holes if not scouted properly. May be a job for Pine Tree

forest_blight wrote:: Why is this an arc of lights ? I don't get it. The arc has to be key, here, the thing that makes you go "ahh, now I get it." I don't get that from the lighthouse. One could say that the beam of light from the tower sweeps across an arc path.  (That, or they use arc lighting, like arc welding?) Hmm, but that would be an "arc of light" not lights.  nevermind.

The lighthouse is automatically run now. It is on both day and night.

I must agree with FB here.  I really dont think our "arc of light" is the lighthouse....too obscure.  Think it will be a little more obvious than that....not kick in the butt obvious, just a little more obvious.

Got to love the internet... who knew that coming into Sullivan's Island, on Station 22 1/2 you crossed a draw bridge... wouldn't this be an arc of lights (if it is an old draw bridge with the metal over hangs for the road supports) hxxp://www.roadsideamerica.com/tips/get ... onNo==1159 Also some photos at the Fort

Not content with Chicago, Milwaukee, and Montreal, I will also be in Charleston later this month (!). So if there is any detail anyone wants me to check out while I'm down there, or take pictures of, I'm on it.

Unknown: So if there is any detail anyone wants me to check out while I'm down there, or take pictures of, I'm on it. Unknown: who knew that coming into Sullivan's Island, on Station 22 1/2 you crossed a draw bridge... wouldn't this be an arc of lights (if it is an old draw bridge with the metal over hangs for the road supports) Sullivan's Island is a hot prospect--but I'm sure that's on your agenda.  Please make sure you start that journey back in Charleston proper, off of Rt 26.  One of my old maps lists exit numbers and the exit off of 26 at the old Grace Memorial/Pearman bridges is 221.  Very close to the Lane Two twenty two , there may another exit sign on that route as you cross and get on Rt 703. I know some people like the Station numbers better. Just a thought. I thought I saw a picture of this bridge on one of my searches and its a rotating type bridge, not a classic draw bridge.  But you could find out... Please check out all the way west of Fort Moultrie to the end of the island looking for the wingless bird .  That is if you don't find it near the fort. [V5 feels like a follow-the-trail-directions to me--very much like Milwaukee's--see the arc of lights (lighthouse?????)--next see the Fort---next see the bird--next find the tree and white stone--next dig] Seems we may be moving westward--how far, don't know.] Pictures would be great.  Visiting the suspected sites are a must, you can't get the same details from an armchair.  Will you also be checking out Ronoake again this summer?

I do hope to go to Roanoke again this summer, time permitting. I will try my best to take your suggestions, even though I'm a bigger fan of V6 for this Image.

A few more obsevations for image2: 79,33,80,45,36 (or 43,56)... SAVE ...Frankenstein, when viewed upside down. edit: caterpillars under eyes, atleast the lion's right eye.

Forest Blight-- You might want to consider checking out the park near The Citadel.

Boogieman, Please check out hxxp://thesecret.pbwiki.com/2_map because the area you have marked as Frankenstein is pretty clearly a map of Charleston. Thanks, AnotherDoth

Thanks Doth, I should have explained that as well as Charleston, the map looks to show the distinct profile of Mr. Frankenstein when viewed upside down.  Not only that, but the initials for South Carolina are there too. edit: What does it all mean?  I have no idea!

Following up on the tie in to the verse as a journey motif... note the following history and current layout... The first fort on Sullivans Island was still incomplete when Adm. Sir Peter Parker and nine warships attacked it on June 28, 1776. After a nine-hour battle, the ships were forced to retire. Charleston was saved from British occupation, and the fort was named in honor of its commander, William Moultrie. In 1780 the British finally captured Charleston, abandoning it only on the advent of peace. After the Revolution, Fort Moultrie was neglected, and by 1791 little of it remained. Then, in 1793, war broke out between England and France. The next year Congress, seeking to safeguard American shores, authorized the first system on nationwide coastal fortifications. A second Fort Moultrie, one of 20 new forts along the Atlantic coast, was completed in 1798. It too suffered from neglect and was finally destroyed by a hurricane in 1804. By 1807 many of the other First System fortifications were in need of extensive repair. Congress responded by authorizing funds for a Second System, which included a third Fort Moultrie. By 1809 a new brick fort stood on Sullivans Island. Between 1809 and 1860 Fort Moultrie changed little. The parapet was altered and the armament modernized, but the big improvement in Charleston’s defenses during this period was the construction of Fort Sumter at the entrance of the harbor. The forts ringing Charleston Harbor – Moultrie, Sumter, Johnson, and Castle Pinckney – were meant to complement each other, but ironically received their baptism of fire as opponents. In December 1860 South Carolina seceded from the Union, and the Federal garrison abandoned Fort Moultrie for the stronger Sumter. Three and a half months later, Confederate troops shelled Sumter into submission, plunging the nation into civil war. In April 1863, Federal iron-clads and shore batteries began a 20-month bombardment of Sumter and Moultrie, yet Charleston’s defenses held. When the Confederate army evacuated the city in February 1865, Fort Sumter was little more than a pile of rubble and Fort Moultrie lay hidden under the band of sand that protected its walls from Federal shells. The new rifled cannon used during the Civil War had demolished the brick-walled fortifications. Fort Moultrie was modernized in the 1870s, employing concepts developed during the war. Huge new cannon were installed, and magazines and bombproofs were built of thick concrete, then buried under tons of earth to absorb the explosion of heavy shells. In 1885, President Grover Cleveland appointed Secretary of War William C. Endicott to head a board to review the coastal defenses in light of newly developing weapons technology. The system that emerged, named for Endicott, again modernized the nation’s fortifications. New batteries of concrete and steel were constructed in Fort Moultrie. Larger weapons were emplaced elsewhere on Sullivans Island, and the old fort became just a small part of the Fort Moultrie reservation that covered much of the island. As technology changed, harbor defense became more complex. The world wars brought new threats of submarine and aerial attack and required new means of defense at Moultrie. Yet these armaments also became obsolete as nuclear weapons and guided missiles altered the entire concept of national defense. Today Fort Moultrie has been restored to portray the major periods of its history. A visitor to the fort moves steadily backwards in time from the World War II Harbor Entrance Control Post to the site of the Palmetto-log fort of 1776.

Hi all, This is my first post here at quest4treasure.  My name is Mike and I'm from Norther New Jersey, very close to New York City.  I first learned about Armchair Treasure hunting from the local paper in an article I read, cut out, and nearly forgot about two years ago about Egberts success in Cleavland.  Two years later and I've dusted the article off, purchased a copy of the book from amazon (which has yet to arrive) and starting doing a little more than nothing. Since I thought it a waste to have my first post without attempting something insightful...here is my two cents for today. I agree with those of you who think that Image 2 and Verse 5 go together...in keeping with that line of thought "A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight" reminds me a helicopter...just like the AH-1 Cobra Helicopter that sits on the parade ground park on the campus of The Citadel. I, like most of you, agree that its too obvious for the poem to mention 'citadel' and have it actually be there, but an interesting tid bit none-the-less Looking forward to helping the search -Mike [in hindsight i realize that this post is more about the verse than the picture, ill chalk it up to being a rookie...that and everyone in the Verse 5 thread thinks it's NY and I don't want to ruffle their feathers just yet]

Regarding the lion (a.k.a. the king of the jungle), King St. goes smack down the center of Charleston and ends up at White Point Gardens. This would be consistent with BP's other clever uses of road names. Aside: If I2 goes with V2, it is interesting that Meeting St. ("The namesakes meeting / Near this site") also terminates at White Point Gardens.

I have a theory that I have been working with but like everything, no concrete confirmers.... While the images all relate to their single related verse and burial site, there exists a piece of the image that connects it to another site so that an order can be obtained (linking one site to the next) examples...  The Lion in this Image (mostly sure that it firmly connects to the Charlestown area - and more or less to Sullivan's Island) connects this buried casque to the one located in Lake Park Milwaukee (with the Lion matching up with the Lion Bridge) another example - Image Six (believing that this relates to a site in Florida - yet to be confirmed) has an Island with a Palm (lower right) - which connects to this (Image 2) burial site as that Palm Island is a location on the indicated route from Pear Bridge to Sullivan's Island. I have a rough outline with a chain of eight - it helps to make educated guesses on BP's overall plan.  (Still and maybe always, unconfirmable)

Trohn, I agree with your linking here.  I too have been noticing A LOT of "same things" in different pix.  I dont have my notes with me but if I remember some, I will toss them out.

fox wrote:: Trohn, I agree with your linking here.  I too have been noticing A LOT of "same things" in different pix.  I dont have my notes with me but if I remember some, I will toss them out. Weren't Thucy and Xeno (currently linked to Boston) also at the Cleveland location?

bclews wrote:: Weren't Thucy and Xeno (currently linked to Boston) also at the Cleveland location? Yes they were.  The lion face is also the one in the fountain in the Cleveland pic.  If an order to things does exist, it may coincide with the the birth months, actually, or the number of each verse.  Also, BP had stated that as he recalls, there was a clock painted on the inside cover of each casque, showing a different time, but he did not recall the significance.  Our Chicago finders, if we can ever get in contact with them, may be able to tell us what is under the cover.  Mine is in too many pieces to tell.  It is a painting of some sort.  Also, I have to apologize for not getting in touch with John Jude Palencar.  I will attempt to do that very soon.

Eg - can you supply a photograph or two of your casque fragments? Regarding Image 2, does anyone see the letters "hwy" in the top left of our lion's mane? Another possible lead: Cypress Gardens, 24 miles north of Charleston, SC, at 3030 Cypress Gardens Rd. Moncks Corner, SC: hxxp://www.cypressgardens.org/ This attraction has cypress (obviously), a butterfly house, a reptile center, and a really big stone cross (like the one in our lion's mane?): hxxp://www.pbase.com/kluken/image/46782822 Perhaps this place is worth looking into.

Other plantations in the area that may be of interest include  Middleton Place Plantation Gardens (which have lakes in the shape of a butterfly, cypress forests and an African American Tour).  In fact, the gardens were built on the backs of slaves.  Also Boone Hall Plantation which have gardens laid out in the shape of butterfly wings.  I EM this place a long time ago to see when the gardens were constructed, done in 1936.  The person who EM'd back said that they could either be a butterfly shape or a spider--are we back in ATT again? Anyway, these may be of nominal interest if you happen to be in the area or have the time when you go to Charleston FB.

Middleton Place I encountered in my search, but not Boone Hall - I will check into that. It will be difficult to fit in very many stops, as we will be visiting Charleston and Savannah all in a two-day stretch. Hard to do even when you're not looking for buried treasure!

Boone Hall also has butterfly-shaped lakes. At least, they say they do - I can't see them from satellite images.

I think every hair in that lion's mane that doesn't follow the pattern of pointing outwardly, has a significant purpose to this puzzle.  I see an anchor and a pirate ship just above the pear tree.  I see an odd looking soldiers helmut just below the ear on the left side of the image with a right face profile.  I see the hwy with the backwards y above that ear.  I see three leaves specifically placed.  One just touching the 9 of our 79.  Another just touching the 4 and 5 just above the Charleston map.  The other is in the ship, just touching the anchor.  They have always bothered me and I'm not sure everyone will see them. I see that the lion's right ear looks like an ape or something smiling at whatever is going on on the forehead.  Looks like an explosion coming up from between the eyes.  The left ear looks like some kind of fairy with wings laughing at the same scene from the other side.  The eye's, one has a caterpillar under it and the other a seahorse.  Now here's a funny one that I don't think I should mention on this board for fear that I would sound like an idiot, (why hold back now) but here goes...  The bottom wings of the butterfly, when turned upside down has Alice eating from the mushroom, bigger on one side, then smaller on the other.  Notice the large A's in there.  You may need a real vivid imagination for that one.  Let me go a little further on this, I feel, and I cannot explain why because there is just not enough space here, that Alice, the Wonderland, and the Looking Glass have something to do with all the images. Maybe I should be smoking the Hookah and nibbling on the shrooms

I think the lion will be seen when then proper location is found.... A Walking Tour of Historic Charleston, South Carolina -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Article by Carole Terrell Charleston is one of the best walking cities in the U.S. and a good place to begin your walk is Charleston’s Waterfront Park. The waves slap gently against the boardwalk while locals and visitors alike enjoy swinging in oversized porch swings and strolling through the breezy park. People can be seen all around the park relaxing on benches, reading books while lying in the cool grass, walking and playing with their dogs, or going for their daily jog. Cruise ships and naval vessels often dock nearby and there is plenty of fishing to be done off the small pier. Telescopes are available in order to gain a closer look at wildlife and catch a glimpse of Patriot’s Point across the harbor, where out of service naval vessels are available for touring. Waterfront Park holds a fountain that sprays water in multiple directions and the public is welcome to run through the water and the spray of the fountain. Perfect for those humid summer days! The pineapple is the Southern symbol for hospitality and a pineapple-shaped fountain rests in the middle of the park, inviting walkers to soak their feet a few moments prior to venturing further into town to explore more opportunities. Heading east out of Waterfront Park will lead you to the Battery at the tip of the peninsula, where ships with tall masts and sails once docked and Civil War cannons proudly stood, facing the harbor and the Atlantic Ocean. There seems to be a constant, steady breeze floating across the Battery, palm trees rustling in the wind and myriad boats sailing and racing across the harbor. This is one of the most relaxing and rejuvenating spots in the town, where you can take the time to be still in a busy world, breathe deeply, let the wind run its fingers through your hair and just lose yourself for a while in the sights and sounds of the harbor and the smell of the salty sea air. Adjoining the Battery is White Point Gardens, a large grassy area shaded by massive oaks and fringed with cannons, monuments, and historical statues. Pigeons and seagulls often fly into the shaded park to eat and rest their wings. In the middle of the park is a large white gazebo and it isn’t uncommon to come across a wedding in progress or a string quartet playing in the gazebo.  Horse and buggies roll around the Battery and the park off and on all day, giving visitors a glimpse of the past, as do the grand old mansions lining the Battery. From White Point Gardens you can continue your walk back through town on Meeting Street, which will eventually lead you to the City Market, or take your pick of any number of streets that crisscross the city, some of them still cobblestone just as they were a century ago. Take your time as you meander along the streets and past the homes that transport you back into the past with hidden gardens surrounded by decorative wrought iron gates and ancient Spanish moss-laden oaks. The clip-clop of horses’ feet, cemeteries, and some the oldest churches in our country remind you of the beginnings of America. Charleston is often referred to as “The Holy City” because there are so many churches; you are never out of sight of a church steeple. The whole city seems to be a garden in itself, lush with azaleas in the spring season and other types of blossoms and foliage the remainder of the year.  Everything is so picturesque, one would never know that Charleston has endured its share of devastating earthquakes, fires, and hurricanes through the years. A self-guided tour is a great way to spend a day or a weekend, but to gain further insight and a sense of the city’s history, a guided walking tour is also an option. On a recent visit to Charleston, we chose to participate in one of the many walking tours, Anna’s House & Garden Walking Tour. Being a 12th generation Charleston native, Anna Blythe has an abundant knowledge of the area and its history. The tour begins under the green awning at 61 Queen St., at a shop called Charleston Gardens, and the tour goes rain or shine. Fortunately, the weather was perfect on this day- sunny and 80 degrees. Anna was able to explain about many of the homes on the route: Who owned them, who bought them, additions and repairs throughout the years, the certain styles and periods of the homes, and just about everything you would want to learn. A home on Queen Street had actually been picked up and moved back in order to create parking space. The balconies of a three-story house near the Battery are supported by the three styles of Greek columns, going from bottom to top, Doric, Ionian, and Corinthian.  The architecture on all these homes is superb! There is so much to see. Our group learned about the windows in the homes that could be fully opened and used as doors, the stone blocks found all around the city that are stepping stones to enter a carriage, the boot scrapes placed outside the front door to remove dirt and mud, and how many of the homes are turned at an angle to catch the ocean breezes. And one of the most interesting things about the homes are the earthquake rods. Past earthquakes had shaken and shifted the homes, and rods were run through the homes in order to stabilize them. Once the rods were in place, they could be slowly turned until the house was once again level. [glow=red,2,300]The washers at the ends of the rods can be seen on the outside of the homes. I noticed that several of the washers had been covered with decorative metal lions’ heads. There is a definite lion theme in this area. It can be seen in statues placed at front doors of homes, lion decorations placed on top of and around buildings, and lion faces forged into the iron gates.[/glow] Even though the homes are elegant, they require constant upkeep and repair. Many of the first floors of homes and restaurants were flooded during Hurricane Hugo in 1989, which left a musty smell for quite some time and required extensive repair. One of the homes we passed had recently been painted a soft purple hue, described as “the marshes in winter.” Being a mountain girl, I likened it to the color of twilight over the mountains just before nightfall. Anna led us into several secluded gardens along the way. Shady and cool with a multitude of greenery and fragrant blooms, goldfish ponds with flowing fountains, simple walkways and statues, the gardens gave all kinds of ideas that could be used in our own gardens at home. One of the gardens included a playhouse that four generations have played in and a dog who came out of the house to curiously look us over and then went back inside. I guess we all looked pretty harmless. Vines and native plants were pointed out to us all along the tour, one of them being the Jerusalem Thorn Bush. The bush has sets of thorns along its branches, one long and two short thorns that represent Jesus and the two thieves on the cross. It is believed that Jesus’ thorn of crowns was made from the Jerusalem Thorn Bush. Toward the end of the tour we were ushered into the Palmer Home, an 1849 mansion located on 5 East Battery It is now operated as a bed and breakfast. This stately home is painted a soft pink with white trim and black shutters. The owners of the pink palace live in what used to be the carriage house and the bottom floor of the home and the other floors are used for the bed and breakfast operations. Our group was led through the front door of the home and up the carpeted staircase to the second floor dining room, where assorted refreshments of sweets and pink lemonade had been laid out for us to enjoy. We then took our refreshments onto the balcony (also called a piazza), where we relaxed in rocking chairs and gazed out to sea toward Fort Sumter. We waved to passersby as if we all lived there. The third floor piazza holds additional rocking chairs and a telescope for long range viewing. After taking the break from walking, we went back into the house for a tour of the parlors and bedrooms. Each room was colorful, and chandeliers glistened throughout the house. Anna pointed out pieces of antique furniture and glassware along with ancestral portraits on the walls. I noticed a lot of bird prints throughout the house, and photos of the family over the years gave the house a real homey touch. The ocean breeze keeps the house cool most of the time. At the end of our house tour, we let ourselves out and closed the iron gate behind us, entering once again into the modern world. But as we walked around the Battery and onto Meeting Street, we were again greeted by the past, where we came upon African-American basket weavers selling their wares on the street. This type of basket-making was originally brought here from Africa and has been taught to each generation and preserved until today. The baskets are woven so tightly that they can easily hold water, and some of the baskets require 10 to 12 hours to create. The tour ended on Queen Street, having made a loop around several blocks. City maps can be obtained at the visitor center, bikes can be rented, and a public transportation system is available to continue your self-guided tour. There is lots more to see! All types of architecture, history, plantations, the Citadel military academy, City Market, museums, succulent seafood, art, the South Carolina Aquarium and IMAX theater and, of course, the beaches, just about 20 minutes outside the city. The only tea plantation in America is located in Charleston. And all kinds of shopping. Clothing stores, chocolate shops, restaurants and the intoxicating aromas of those cozy little coffee and tobacco shops. So the next time you need a getaway to escape the fast pace of the world and uplift your spirits, consider a walking tour of Charleston’s historic district.

We will be heading to Charleston today, and returning tomorrow night. I hope to have an opportunity to visit White Point Gardens and Ft. Sumter, but it is doubtful I will have a chance to visit anywhere else of significance. I will take lots of pictures, because I often miss things that others are able to see. I discovered that it is still permissible, even today, to take one's own boat to Ft. Sumter and avoid the ferry. If the same was true in 1981, BP would have had no difficulty smuggling a shovel onto the island under cover of night. I'm just sayin'.

Keep your eyes out for two twenty-two.

forest_blight wrote:: I discovered that it is still permissible, even today, to take one's own boat to Ft. Sumter and avoid the ferry. If the same was true in 1981, BP would have had no difficulty smuggling a shovel onto the island under cover of night. but where would he get the boat?? wilhouse

We returned Saturday from a very nice day and a half in Charleston, SC. The primary reasons were for vacation and to see the Piccolo Spoleto festival (my mom has a booth in the art show). We were also able to visit Fort Sumter, White Point Gardens (on the Battery), and Fort Moultrie. I took lots of pictures, got some literature on the history of Charleston, and bought some good maps. I also obtained pamphlets for Fort Sumter, Drayton Hall, Middleton Place, and Cypress Gardens, but none have any discernible connection to The Secret . I remain just as baffled by Image 2 as before, and all I can say with any certainty is that Image 2 definitely has a connection to Charleston (the mask map) and the lower mask just has to be a reference to Fort Sumter's distinctive pentagonal shape. But does it go with V2, V3, V5, V6, or V10? Who knows. Charleston proper We drove and walked much of the city, me with an eye toward anything Secret -related. See my photos at webshots.com (under "Charleston proper"): hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/quantpsy Fort Sumter Most of the photos I took were of Ft. Sumter because it is the only certain landmark in P2. A more detail-oriented visit might have included going through the museum in Fort Sumter and reading all the captions, but I do not know when the museum was organized. It is possible that the mouth of the lower mask is a representation of the Hunley, a submersible that sank in Charleston Harbor in 1861. A replica of the Hunley can be found on the grounds of Charleston Museum. See my photos at webshots.com (under "Fort Sumter"): hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/quantpsy Fort Moultrie Fort Moultrie was not open when we visited (I think it closes at 5:00). We were able to walk around the grounds outside the fort walls and read plenty of historic markers. Lots of cannons there, too (in pairs!), and easy access to a beautiful beach populated only by the occasional tourist and as many hermit crabs. Given more time, I would like to have entered the fort itself and visited the western tip of Sullivan's Island. With regard to the "arc of lights," there was only one lighthouse that I could see, and nothing about it said "arc of lights" to me. There are some arguments in favor of Fort Moultrie (the Poe connection and a few possible connections to Verse 5), but also some against. For example, if the casque is buried at Fort Moultrie, why put a picture of Fort Sumter in the image? Some have mentioned that "weight and roots extended / Together saved the site" may refer to the use of palmetto logs and sandbags to reinforce the walls. This definitely happened at Fort Moultrie, but "roots extended" is a peculiar way to say "logs," doncha think? See my photos at webshots.com (under "Fort Moultrie"): hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/quantpsy White Point Gardens / The Battery White Point Gardens is full of monuments and historic markers. I really wish I had read cthree's post of 7/2/04 before making this trip. The U.S.S. Maine capstan plaque and the Stede Bonnet monument have such strong connections to V6. See my photos at webshots.com (under "White Point Gardens"): hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/quantpsy

forest_blight wrote:: For example, if the casque is buried at Fort Moultrie, why put a picture of Fort Sumter in the image? Possibly because Sumter's shape is much more recognizable than Moultrie's.  Could simply be another confirmer for Charleston and nothing else.

If the thing is buried at Fort Moltrie, why include Fort Sumter?? Fort Moltrie is part of Fort Sumter in the national Park system... they are managed as one unit.  The verse supports Moltrie over Sumter because you can drive to Moltrie by car (Lane) but Sumter, you need a boat. And historically, Sumter was built to replace Moltrie.

Here is a link for all of the lights of South Carolina. hxxp://www.uscg.mil/hq/g-cp/history/WEB ... /LHSC.html It has been common for BP to use words in place of other words so as to not give away a term.... (ie mica for sand) Can he have chosen 'arc' to be used instead of 'range'? Lots of old photos.  The verse fits. Can wingless bird be a cannon ball?

This may have been mentioned already...

"The wings of war"

Some thoughts. I still believe that this image goes with verse 5.  Here is my proposed location of the casque: "Lane Two Twenty Two" hxxp://img517.imageshack.us/img517/7589 ... ton4gh.jpg One enters Sullivan's Island on Station 22 1/2.  Possible interpretations are the second Station 22, or two lane road 22. "You'll see an arc of lights" I really believe that this refers to the lighthouse.  When this idea was brought up before, it was quickly denounced since the beam of light is not really an arc, but the path the beam takes across the sky can definitely be referred to as an arc.  Considering the light from Sullivan's Island Lighthouse can be seen for over 20 miles, I am sure it can be seen from Station 22 1/2. "Weight and roots extended Together saved the site Of granite walls Wind swept halls" In my opinion, this is the strongest argument for verse 5 with image 2.  The association of Fort Moultrie and palmetto logs has been mentioned several times in the thread already, so I won't delve into it.  Fort Moultrie does in fact have granite walls. "Citadel in the night A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight" I believe this refers to the lighthouse itself.  It is within walking distance from Fort Moultrie.  The wingless bird could refer to the elevator (quite a novelty for a lighthouse), or the lighthouse itself.  The ancient dreams of flight could be a play on the word flight (of stairs) or should read, "ancient dreams of light.  When spoken, this phrase is indistinguishable from the phrase in the poem.  I have also supposed that it could refer to the Bible story of The Tower of Babble where the people of the earth try to build a tower to reach the heavens. "Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side" hxxp://img511.imageshack.us/img511/7310 ... use1xm.jpg That's the lighthouse at the top of the picture.  The circled Rock is about 53 due West from the circled tree.  Both are south of the lighthouse.  While there are scattered trees around (very few), this is too good to pass up, and they may not have been there in 1982.  They are very small.  12 Paces is about 60 feet, and 53 is close enough for me.  In addition, Google earth could be 7 feet off easily. As an alternate location, hxxp://img425.imageshack.us/img425/2358/4beach8hl.jpg This location is directly south of Fort Moultrie.  One tree is noticeable separate from the rest (south along the beach), and the area is littered with white granite boulders.  I talked to the Ranger at Fort Moultrie, and he said that they had been artificially put there, and had been there as long as he could remember.  More than one boulder would also bring to reason why BP mentioned the closest white rock. "Get permission To dig out." I don't know why this would be mentioned in this verse but not the others.  If the second location is correct, it could refer to the tide.  12 paces would put one very close to the shore.  Perhaps even close enough that one would only be able to dig with the tide down. Next week, I will be going to Charleston to check out both locations and maybe even dig.  Any information or advice you could give before then would be very helpful. I'm sorry if anything here is incoherent or unreadable.  If it is, let me know and I will try to clear it up.

How appropriate for a lobster to go trolling on a beach For the most part, I agree with your assessment, but as we all know on here, that feet equal miles, so a few observations: hxxp://www.charlestongateway.com/sullivans.htm "Lane Two twenty two." As you've stated. "You'll see an arc of lights" As you've stated. "Weight and roots extended... ... Wind swept halls" As you've stated. Now see my link and see where the Fort is in relation to the lighthouse.  You've passed the lighthouse and made the right and drove almost a mile to get to the Fort. I believe that from burial site, (the forest to the south) you'll be in direct sight (to the west) of Fort Sumpter. Without being there, the "only standing memeber of a forest to the south" should be between the Fort and the shore. KEEP IN MIND The casque is beneath THE ONLY STANDING MEMBER The white rock is only there to confirm that you have the correct tree.  The rock at twelve paces is NOT the burial ste. There should be no other rocks within twelve paces of the "tree" except for the one from the west side. Looking south from the Fort to the water is the direction in which the canonns fired to protect themselves from the British. So the only standing member should be a palmetto, which are a protected tree on Sullivan.  If someone sees you near it with a shovel, they may get the wrong impression. Good luck. Take some pictues.  Look for a lion.

Fort Moutrie property extends beyond the Fort itself. The whole of the land between Middle Street to the Southern shore at station twelve is considered the owned by the National Park system, there-by, "get prmission". (Why can I not post photos) Anyways, mapquest: 1214 Middle Street, Sullivan's Island, SC and notice the line of sight of Sumpter to the place you are going to be searching. This is the place.

I think the first place to look is at the tree in the photo, beyond the flag pole. hxxp://www.nps.gov/fomo/pphtml/activities.html Really do not know how anyone can be sure of anything here without digging. The twelve paces is a confirmer, but probably not a certain. The fact that he mentions a rock as a confirmer makes me think these grounds are well manicured and the rocks are not haphazard. "A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of light" To me has always reminded me of two things: helicopter underground railroad (save escapes) Have never been able to pin those two things directly onto here.  Indirectly, yes.

hxxp://community.iexplore.com/planning/ ... rie#photos see the first photo here. The last standing member should be visible. Look out and see Fort Sumpter.

Great info.  I have a few questions though. First, you stated that the burial site should be a place where one can see for Sumpter.  What is this suggestion based on?  I couldn't really figure it out from you're post, but that's probably my fault. Second, thanks for pointing out that the burial site is under the tree, not the rock.  I completely missed that.  I guess I couldn't see the forest for the tree... Next, Where did you get your information about the protection of palmetto trees?  Were they protected in 1982?  If so, that could be the basis of the necessity of permission at this site. Finally, the tree in the picture at the NPS website definitely looks promising, but I was told by the ranger at Ft. Moultrie that there was no way I would be allowed to dig on NPS property.  He was a nice enough guy, but it sounded like a strict no-digging policy. Thanks for the speedy response. EDIT:  Has anyone tried to get in touch with the artist of the images?  I am at a loss for his name, but the previous process of confirming the location with BP is definitely preferable to just running out and digging.  Do you think he'd be willing to confirm a location if he could?

Here is a novel idea.... The first time I was at Fort Moultrie, a friend and I stumbled upon it. We enjoyed reading the battle history from the Revolution and the Civil War, but we enjoyed even more sitting on the large granite (SC's state rock) stones along the coast and watching the sunset. This is a great spot for watching ships come into harbor in the evening, watching gulls and dolphins. During that first visit, there was no one there that evening, and we sat on the rocks in silence, listened to the waves pound, felt the salt blowing on our faces, and watched the sails in the sunset. How romantic! The second time I went to the fort, it was harder to find. You have to follow the signs to Sullivan's Island, and then look for signs to Fort Moultrie. That evening, during July, the fort was more crowded. Several other couples were also on the rocks along the coast. But the waves are so loud that you can't hear them talking. It was neat, all of us sitting on the rocks and relaxing. And that evening we saw dolphins. Could our "wingless bird acsended" be a dolphin?! Answers:  The Palmetto is the state tree of south carolina. Found the protection clauses in the park system rules and regs. If B.P. stated you need permission back in 1982, could be virtually impossible these days. My Fort Sumpter visual is based upon two things: "Citadel in the night" and The linking image to this verse. The things in the image should be visable, within proper perspective, when you are digging.

A few pages back, someone mentioned how most of the image is a map.  Following his reasoning, the Pearman bridge, Station 22 1/2, and Fort Sumter all fall in proper proportions on a real map.  I believe that the gem is somewhat of an 'X' on the map.  It's right where Fort Moutlrie is. If the lone tree is south of the fort instead of the lighthouse, Fort Sumter would definitely be visable.  I don't know about that lion though... Has anyone ever made a proposition on what exactly the map on the lion's head is?  I've tried to match it up with many parts of Sullivan's Island's geography, but to no avail.

The lion MAY simply represent Charleston in general, but my theory is that the larger the piece of the image, the closer to the burial site (so perhaps the largest items in the image are the most insignificant to the whole area) The map idea is a good idea to keep in mind. You must use the verse and the image simultaneously as one confirms the other. You can 'find' the spot using only the image or only the verse, but you lose the tools to check yourself. The butterfly wings have double sets of rings that match up to the cannons of Fort Moutrie as do the wings themselves as the whole shape of the Fort. Being South of the Fort, near the shore, you would have the proper perspective of the cannons that you need (just as they fired on the British ships) I have found a strange coincindence for the remaining phrasing: "Born of Ancient Dreams of Flight" One of the inspirations of Sigorsky (besides DaVinci) was Jules Verne. As he was one of the original sci-fi wrtiers, his writings were the inspiration for many to persue flight. Jules Verne wrote a story (Blockade Runners) that details a boatload of cotton trying to escape the southern americas and travel to europe to sell it.  The blockade they were running was during the Civil War.  The fictional story details the ship: The Dolphin leaving Charleston Harbor and details slipping by Fort Moutrie. It is know that B.P. used references from literature to hide clues.  This may be one of them, albeit a far fetched connection. Getting back to the question of the image, the Charleston coastline is littered with lions heads on posts. I have found nothing to indicate that Sullivan's Island has the same motifs, but if you are south of the Fort and are deciding upon trees - a lion's image would be certainly good omen.

I agree that the Ft. Moultrie grounds are more promising than the lighthouse. But I didn't notice any white stones when I was there. The beach area is a different matter. There's just no telling where trees were in 1981. That part of the coast is battered by hurricanes regularly. I also agree with Trohn that ancient dreams of flight is evocative of either helicopters or the underground railroad, but wingless bird ascended is consistent only with the former. As to getting in touch with the artist (John Jude Palencar), Egbert might know. Palencar was interviewed for the Cleveland Plain Dealer article on the 2004 find. Trohn: dolphins as "wingless birds ascended" are unlikely. On what basis? As for seeking permission... I got there after Ft. Moultrie was closed for the day, and there was NO ONE official around, anywhere. Just beachcombers. Finally, the closest match we've found to the lion's head in Charleston is King St. ("king of the jungle"), which is a major street terminating at White Point Gardens in Charleston proper. As for lions appearing on posts and wrought-ironwork, I've heard about this a few times, but when I was there I didn't see a single representation of a lion. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough.

lobster411 wrote:: I don't know why this would be mentioned in this verse but not the others.  If the second location is correct, it could refer to the tide.  12 paces would put one very close to the shore.  Perhaps even close enough that one would only be able to dig with the tide down. Next week, I will be going to Charleston to check out both locations and maybe even dig.  Any information or advice you could give before then would be very helpful. I can't imagine him burying anything anywhere on a beach.  I search periodically for gold and silver coins from the 1715 fleet on the East Coast of Florida.  I know that an item on a beach can become buried under several feet of sand or washed out to sea in just a couple of days or shorter.  Plus, if you have ever tried digging past 6 inches or so in sand near the oceans edge, you will find it is near impossible as you hit water and the hole keeps filling back up with sand.  Anything buried near a coast would almost HAVE to be behind the dune line due to these reasons, or it would be lost in no time.

I think my approach to finding the lion will be to knock on doors in the area and ask, "Have you seen this lion?" I'm serious.  If there is an actual lion image in the area, I think would be a very effective approach.

Unknown: I think my approach to finding the lion will be to knock on doors in the area and ask, "Have you seen this lion?" That is logical, but be prepared to be considered crazy by the locals. We got many weird looks while digging in Milwaukee.

forest_blight wrote:: be prepared to be considered crazy by the locals. We got many weird looks while digging in Milwaukee. Crazy is fine. By the way, where can I find information about the Milwaukee dig?  I checked the appropriate image and verse threads, but can not seem to find anything. Did you get some sort of digging permit or permission, or did you just go out and dig?

At one time there was a lion in a park across from The Citadel.  I mentioned in an earlier post.

There is also a Vietnam era helicopter on the Parade Grounds of The Citadel. That's so far away from Ft. Moultrie though....

Unknown: By the way, where can I find information about the Milwaukee dig?  I checked the appropriate image and verse threads, but can not seem to find anything. The Verse 8 thread has oodles and oodles of information on the unsuccessful Milwaukee dig. We did seek - and received - permission to dig.

Who did you get permission from? Another problem:  If we find the correct tree,  if we are 100% certain that it is the right tree, there is still 360 degrees worth of dirt that it could be in.  What side of the tree should one dig on?  How close or far from the base?

Unknown: If we find the correct tree,  if we are 100% certain that it is the right tree, there is still 360 degrees worth of dirt that it could be in.  What side of the tree should one dig on?  How close or far from the base? If we're still talking about V2 (are we?), then the verse is clear: At twelve paces / From the west side . A pace is about a yard, so go 12 yards west of... whatever we're supposed to go 12 yards west of, then dig.

My thoughts (and it depends on how you read it) is that the "ONLY STANDING MEMBER" is the one that has a white stone closest, then 12 paces west from there.  I know usually people take it to mean a white stone 12 paces west from the only standing member.

I believe that digging 12 paces away leads to a digging area that is too large.  This is because of the variable length of a pace.  I take much bigger steps than most people, so I could go too far.  Perhaps BP's pace was not regular either? I believe that the rock at 12 paces is just a marker to make sure that one is in the right place. If only the last few lines had punctuation, they read so many different ways depending on where punctuation goes... I believe they are intended to read as follows. Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south The casque is beneath the only standing member, which is south of the Fort or the Wingless Bird. White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side There are/is white stone(s).  The closest one is at twelve paces from the west side. This interpretation still leaves some ambiguity as to where the casque is in relation to the tree.  I think the specific plot of land may be attainable from the last two lines, which we have as of yet been unable to decode. Get permission To dig out. Another possibility is that the final plot of land could be derived from the image.

A possible epiphany: Perhaps the white stone is not some marker at all, but rather a symbol for the gem that is to be dug up.  The month in image 2 is april.  The birthstone is diamond, which is generally white/clear, although it is blueish in the image.

Except you dig up a painted casque, not the gem itself.  I had thought the white "stone" could also be man-made, like a concrete marker, plaque, etc. Has anyone played with anagrams of the last couple of lines (or even any ther lines) yet?

we haven't noticed that anagramming was part of Preiss' bag of tricks. wilhouse

not to cast dispersions.... I still believe that a wingless bird ascending is a hot air balloon.  It has been some time since this discussion but it was tied in quite nicely somewhere else.  Was it Charleston... ?...not sure.

Yes, Fox. The Great Baloon Hoax, written by Poe, was located at Fort Moultrie, (I do not know if they have a marker there, but Poe is a God on Sullivan Island)

Interesting commentary of Sullivan Island.. Near the western extremity, where Fort Moultrie stands, and where are some miserable frame buildings, tenanted, during summer, by the fugitives from Charleston dust and fever, may be found, indeed, the bristly palmetto; but the whole island, with the exception of this western point, and a line of hard, white beach on the seacoast, is covered with a dense undergrowth of the sweet myrtle, so much prized by the horticulturists of England. Go to page    The Gold Bug by Poe, Edgar Allan The western part seems to be only place to find the 'forest'. If we are sold on Fort Moultrie, there shouldn't be too many options. The white stone should be something permanent as oppose to simply a natural hapistance. For your survey, I would reccommend looking for a plaque at the Fort apeaking of Poe's writings:  Gold Bug and Baloon Hoax.

I was just reading the verse, and something occured to me. A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side Get permission To dig out. I was thinking that the "Beneath" was describing the location of the casque.  This would make it under the tree.  However, it could also be properly read as meaning that the wingless bird ascended beneath the tree, or it could mean that it was born of ancient dreams beneath the tree.  This would make the casque be buried near the white stone instead of beneath the tree. So what kind of wingless bird would take flight beneath a tree?  What kind of ancient dreams were born beneath trees. Newton with his apple is the only thing that comes to mind as famous dreams born under trees, but maybe I'm missing something. Any ideas?

With little punctuation on the verses, the strength in them is how the lines are broken. I have always read each line as an individual clue, with secondary thoughts of weather to link it with the next line in a chain or stand it on its own. Each verse tells specfically where to dig. Beneath is the only direction in this verse on the exact spot. Also with the verses, BP rarely uses the exact words of what he is describing, unless it is a proper name. Therefore, instead of tree, he saids: "Standing memeber of a Forest" With this, is the "white stone" exactly that? I have a logisitcal question,  why if we are told that this is the only standing member, would he think we need to know that there is a white stone closest? I understand that from the west is telling us which side of the "member" to look at, but with the Milwaukee verse, the tree was enough of a landmark at the end. hmmm... I feel we are close.

Taking it further... If you are taking each line to be a seperate clue, but then added "of a forest" to the previous line, what if you did the same thing to the next couple of lines?  You would have: -  Beneath the only standing member of a forest -  To the south white stone closest -  At twelve paces from the west side -  Get permission to dig out So, second sentence above could be possibly pointing to a white stone SOUTH?  Then 12 paces west from there? As far as anagrams, I know the last couple of solved ones did not include anagrams, but does that really mean that none were used in any of the puzzles?

Egbert wrote:: I do not think that we should ask for solutions or even hints, unless it is an "emergency" --- such as Wilhouse's plight in Houston and the imminent demolishing of the treasure ground.  I got along well with him during my telephone call with him approx. 2 years ago, so I do not think anything bad will come of this. I think you hit it on the head here Egbert.  I wouldn't want answers either, but any inclination he might have to Houston, or any other site that may have been demolished or drastically changed would be great.  Does he look at this forum?  Would he let us flutter about knowing a casque was gone? I think he would be proud of his work and flattered to know there are still people out here who value that work.  Just my opinion.

In the newspaper article about the Cleveland find, it says that BP often sent him all kinds of dossiers and photographs of stuff so he could draw the pictures.  It's likely he still has these.

I called his work number, and there was no answer (not even a machine).  So, I called his home number, got a machine, and left a message.  I'll let you all know as soon as I speak with him.

Fair enough.  I agree tho that this call should only cover the issue of whether he has the locations/solutions & any possible "emergency" such as Wilhouse's plight or any destroyed or constructed over sites.  Please oh please, lets avoid the fishing expeditions or "you know, I have what seems to be a solid lead to Milwaukee...could you confirm or deny this and possibly nudge me in the right direction" type requests.  The LAST thing we need is to pester the only possible guy left with any knowledge of the solutions/locations.

I think I would be more comfortable just knowing that someone out there knows the solutions, so that eventually, once the hunt is over for real, we will know for sure. And what did happen to those jewels, anyway?? They couldn't have just disappeared.

If the jewels were in a safe deposit box, then his wife should have custody of them (if she did not have them set in jewelry, or sold them - death in a family can be rather expensive depending on insurance, etc).  That doesnt necessarily mean she would honor the hunt still though if someone found a casque and tried to claim one!  My understanding is all that was lost was the solutions.

Egbert wrote:: I do not think that we should ask for solutions or even hints, unless it is an "emergency" --- such as Wilhouse's plight in Houston and the imminent demolishing of the treasure ground. do you think it would be worth the contact to show him the photo of the "treasure grounds" I have posted and see if that rings any bells with him for the Houston casque? wilhouse

Egbert:  I have decided not to call JJP at risk of cheapening a potential find.  This seems to coincide with popular opinion on this board.  You no longer have to put in a good word for me, but it might be good to set up for potential future "emergency" calls.

He called me back at work in the evening, but I had already left.  It was a nice message --- advising me of the BP tragedy in case I did not already know.  I will call him back later today.

please ask him about his thoughts on Houston.  I can send you the picture if you need me to. wilhouse

How to find a tree, a white rock at twelve paces, but not a casque: We began the day at 6:00.  Rolling out of bed, we choked down some breakfast and jumped in the car.  Myself and two friends arrived at Fort Moultrie at 10 or 11, and we set out to look at two trees that were possible "only standing members..."  As it turns out, neither had a white stone of any kind near it.  On had a large dune to the west, but it could not really be described as white due to the plant growth.  We go to the car to get drinks feeling dejected. We decide to look around the fort and parade field.  We get horribly lost in the woods near the shore, and discover that small cactus plants hurt beyond all imagination.  I hold the record of getting stuck 18 times.  Owe. We then go to the beach to dip extra tee shirts in the water to wrap around our heads.  We look like fools and decide that it may not be too far from the truth. Back to the parade field.  Coming up from the west most part of the beach, we climb some white rocks to get back up to fort grounds.  We figure that with the large granite slabs around, it may be worth looking in this area.  It is. After only a few minutes of perusing this course.  We come upon this beauty: A feeling of solitude surrounds the tree.  It is definitely apart from the rest, but there are no granite slabs nearby.  Then, we see it:  the small glimmer of hope that we drove all this way for. We thought it was a benchmark, but there is no latitude or longitude present on it.  My since of distance says that this is too far away from the tree, but I decide to pace it off anyway. It was 25 steps.  That's 12 1/2 of my paces. Euphoria. I tried to circle the stone on the left side of the picture, but it didn't turn out too well with paint. We thought this was a benchmark at first, and a sense of desperation filled us.  There would be no way to dig here because it is on NPS property.  I seek the person with the most authority at Fort Moultrie, and after several hours of missed phone calls, I get a hold of him.  He says he'd be glad to meet me in his office. After talking to him, I find out that there is absolutely NO way to dig on NPS property.  Period.  If he wanted to, he couldn't. Seeking one final saving throw, I ask where the property line is.  Perhaps the tree and rock are inside the property line. After half an hour of talking to different people, I come to find out the beautiful truth.  The rock is not a benchmark, but a property marker.  The west side of it is not NPS property, but rather belongs to the state of SC, and it is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Ocean and Coastal Resources. More buerocracy. I call my dad, and he looks up the number.  I call them, and they tell me it's ok to dig there.  All he asked was, "I have to know... What is it you're digging up?"  I explain the story, and he says, "That is awesome.  Best of luck to you." We have permission to dig. The head honcho of the park insists of overseeing our digging.  Possibly this is because he is concerned about the possibility of crossing onto park property.  Possibly it is because he wants to watch our backs in case we get stopped by police, but I really think he just wanted to see if we would find anything. We didn't. The fort closes at 5:00.  The gentleman overseeing our digging gets off work at this time, so we are keeping him from going home (to the Mount Pleasant farmer's market no less).  We feel bad at 5:30 and decide to call it quits.  We dug three feet deep, but our hole was not very large in diameter.  Perhaps we missed it. I believe that this explains the significance of the last two lines of the verse.  If one "gets permission to dig out," as it says, he will find out that he cannot dig near the tree.  He can however dig on the west side of the rock.  This is the way I think the verse should read: Beneath the only standing member of a forest to the south of the fort, there is a white stone at twelve paces.  On the west side, get permission to dig out. The west side is the side not owned by Fort Moultrie BTW. I genuinely believe that this is the correct tree and stone.  I believe this because the white stone is of great significance.  It is not some random chunk of rock; it is an official marker that cannot be moved on penalty of law.  This would insure that the rock could not be moved. We are returning to try to dig later.  Possibly Saturday, possibly some time next week.  I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas. ANY. Until then, wish us luck. To view all the pictures, including a better picture of the property marker, go to: hxxp://img140.imageshack.us/slideshow/p ... 24uxb.smil That you all for your hard work on this.

Awesome!  Best of luck!  Make it find #3!

Nice find, lobster411. If you're right, we walked right by the dang thing! Here is my picture: And here is a satellite view. I can see why this palmetto might be called the last standing member of a forest, since it looks isolated: There is a different way to interpret the verse. White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side ...to me means at 12 paces from the west side of the only standing member. So at 12 paces from the tree, you'll find a white stone (which you did). Get permission to dig out might mean "dig on the side for which you need to seek permission," i.e., the east side. I really think you need a probe. The sandy soil would be ideal, and you wouldn't have to dig to find out if there was anything there. My other advice is to arrive after 5:00 on a weekday and wait until no one is around. The place was pretty deserted when we went, and that was after 5:00pm on a Sunday (I think).

I will not be digging on the east side. The penalty for digging on NPS property is as follows:  They take your equipment (metal detectors, shovels, etc), anything you find, your vehicle, and everything in it.  This information was acquired from the staff at Fort Moultrie. What do you suggest using as a probe?  We used 1/8 inch poles.  We could get them into the ground a ways, but despite the sandy ground, there are still rocks. I know it is possible to rent metal detectors, but does anyone know anything about sonar probing stuff?  Also, if I can rent a metal detector, do you think that method is viable? Egbert:  Could you give me dimensions on the plexiglass box?  I know it was rather destroyed, but was there enough left to tell how big it was?

WHOOO YAA! Nice find, I guess the old fashion way of walking around still is better than Google earth. An important confirmer: That rock looks like the diamond from the image! GREAT WORK! The term "dig out" must mean to dig outside the NPS boundaries. As in Cleveland, that was bounded by a concrete "planter" this site is bounded by the water and the  property line. How was the view of Sumter?

lobster411 wrote:: Egbert:  Could you give me dimensions on the plexiglass box?  I know it was rather destroyed, but was there enough left to tell how big it was? It is a cube, about 8 or 9 inches per side.  The plexiglass is probably about 1/2 inch thick.  Good luck!

Unknown: An important confirmer: That rock looks like the diamond from the image! Unknown: As in Cleveland, that was bounded by a concrete "planter" this site is bounded by the water and the  property line. Unknown: How was the view of Sumter? I didn't even notice, but you're right! Unfortunately, there are about twenty feet between the property line and the rocks on the shore line.  I would expect that it would be right beside the rock, so that's where we dug.  If we go again, that is probably where we will start. I completely forgot to look!  However, we did see the Ravenel bridge, which is much farther away.  Fort Sumter would definitely be visable.  This is also very cool because it means you would have been able to see the Silas Pearman bridge when it was there.  If you look hard enough, you might even find patriot's point. Another nice thing to note: the triangle on the property marker points due west.  It might point to the treasure. Also, I forgot to post this picture last time: Our lion?

very nice. you are definately close. I used a probe bought at home depot. It's in the area around the sprinkler fittings. It's for looking for underground pipes and such. it's basically a 3 foot long steel rod with a point on the bottom. if you are really interested in renting a GPS, (ground penetrating radar), I have some contact information. It's not cheap. and it's hard to decipher what you are looking at (yes, I used one for a whole day!!)  let me know. what if the rules changed and it really is on the other side of the rock?? a metal detector, and a really good one, MIGHT detect the metal piece in the key. if it's not buried too deep. but it might not too. good luck wilhouse

Too bad I am so far away.  I have one of the best detectors available (Minelab Explorer) that uses 21 different frequencies for it's detection (vs. the 1 or 2 frequencies of most other detectors).  So, it can go deep, and with a newer Excelsior coil (the larger the coil, the deeper penetration) I bet it would find a casque based on the metal rod in the key.  Detectors like this were not available in the 1980's (or for that matter most of the 1990's even!).  I use it for spanish doubloons near Sebastian Inlet from the 1715 Plate Fleet that wash up on the beach after large storms/hurricanes. As far as probes go, have you tried a shephards hook?  If the casque is at 3 feet in 1982, it could be from 2-4 feet in 2006 - the 3 foot probe for pipes may not reach it.  You can get a shephards hook at Home Depot or Lowe's in the gardening section.  Some are 5-6 ft in length.  They are a thin metal pole, have a point on the end, and curve over into a hook at the top (for hanging plants and such).  You can use the curve as a handle to get better leverage to plunge into the ground vs. a straight rod. Looking forward to hearing more about this location - it does seem to fit the verse and visual clues.  I am putting off further research on verse 5 tied to Florida in a location I have scouted by foot for now, and if it turns out to be SC I can move on obviously...

wilhouse wrote:: very nice. you are definately close. I used a probe bought at home depot. It's in the area around the sprinkler fittings. It's for looking for underground pipes and such. it's basically a 3 foot long steel rod with a point on the bottom. if you are really interested in renting a GPS, (ground penetrating radar), I have some contact information. It's not cheap. and it's hard to decipher what you are looking at (yes, I used one for a whole day!!)  let me know. what if the rules changed and it really is on the other side of the rock?? a metal detector, and a really good one, MIGHT detect the metal piece in the key. if it's not buried too deep. but it might not too. good luck wilhouse Using a metal detector on NPS property carries the same penalties for digging.  Don't do it. How much was the GPR rental for the other side of the rock?  How well did it work?  If I was willing to spring for it, would you recommend it?

lobster...... one word  .....  WOW.  It all seems to fit nicely.  It has to be in the vicinity.  I will disect my notes, V & P in hopes of finding something that may pinpoint our casque.  Keep searching...... Looks like #3 is about to see the light of day at last......

forest_blight wrote:: Nice find, lobster411. If you're right, we walked right by the dang thing! Here is my picture: I noticed something in Forest Blight's picture - the red, white, & blue stripes.

Why do I always miss these things? And in my own pictures!

lobster411 wrote:: Using a metal detector on NPS property carries the same penalties for digging.  Don't do it. How much was the GPR rental for the other side of the rock?  How well did it work?  If I was willing to spring for it, would you recommend it? Except in Florida...  You can use a Metal Detector on NPS property in the sand part of a beach between the waters edge and the dune line.  In your case, you can use it on the non-park side of the rock, and when no one is around a couple quick swings on the other side Not like you are metal detecting around the fort itself...  However, you may get some false reads very close to the rock because it has metal in it itself.

Talk about eating crow.  Looks like this verse is SC and not NY.  Nice. Nice Nice.  Go get it Lobster! Egbert, I owe you a dollar! edit: the ship in Forest's pic could be the ship above the pear in image2.  And notice the shape of the diagram under the canon.

quick question:  couldnt the lines that read "white stone closest at tweleve paces from the west side" mean that the casque is 12 paces from the west side of the stone and not the stone is 12 paces from the tree? - could the line "Citadel in the night" just be a confirmer for Ft. Moultrie?  Not that it is a citadel...just that The Citadel is on Moultrie Street. - where on this pic is your tree & stone?  Is it on left side of pic above the words "Carolina Legion" ?  Not much space to the ocean is there? hxxp://www.geocities.com/e6nchunley/Moultrie.jpg

boogie - you don't owe anyone $1 until a casque gets uprooted. The shape of the diagram under the cannon is for the old Ft. Moultrie, and isn't the proper shape. The mask in P2 is the exact shape of Fort Sumter, however - Charleston's most enduring icon. fox - The stone is directly up from the 'm' in 'Camp.' 12 paces from the stone would put you either on the beach or underwater, from what I gather (and remember). Maybe there has been hurricane erosion? ...and that's a nice photo of the area!

fox wrote:: quick question:  couldnt the lines that read "white stone closest at tweleve paces from the west side" mean that the casque is 12 paces from the west side of the stone and not the stone is 12 paces from the tree? - could the line "Citadel in the night" just be a confirmer for Ft. Moultrie?  Not that it is a citadel...just that The Citadel is on Moultrie Street. - where on this pic is your tree & stone?  Is it on left side of pic above the words "Carolina Legion" ?  Not much space to the ocean is there? hxxp://www.geocities.com/e6nchunley/Moultrie.jpg You aren't planning on digging it up are you?  Because I would really like to get it myself...

lobster411 wrote:: You aren't planning on digging it up are you?  Because I would really like to get it myself... Me? dig it up?  Not unless I can find a shovel with a handle long enough to reach from NM This one seems to be all yours, unless anyone else in the area wants to join in the excitement of unearthing the bad boy.  I wont be me tho,,,,no worries there.

Sorry.  I guess I can't shake the competitive nature of other hunts.

One of these days you will begin to trust The Secret hunters. Even if I were nearby, you would be the first person I would contact to ensure you join in the dig.

lobster411 wrote:: Sorry.  I guess I can't shake the competitive nature of other hunts. you need to try, at least here. wilhouse

From what I understand, the first twenty years of this hunt was very very competitve and one casque was found After that, we started working together, and one casque was found *flip*  I call heads.

Trohn, you have 60 smites man.  I'm loving it.  Keep it alive!

*lol* "I do not want to be the pearl that people find in the oysters; I want to be that grain of sand that caused the pearl to form."          -Ross Perot

Digging again tomarrow.  Any last minute advice?

dig where the casque is sorry good luck wilhouse

Been away from the board for a while--WOW--nice find Lob! Good luck to you--the book has said it could be down 3 1/2 feet, dig deep.  I hope that you find it!

Good luck!  I eagerly await your updates!

I went today and found nothing.  We dug 4 feet deep over an area of about 16 square feet.  This took 4 hours.  This is the area where the casque would have been expected to be.  Possible reasons the casque was absent include: 1)  They were moved/found/decimated when new water and electrical pipes were put in underground after hurricane Hugo (1989). 2)The casque is actually under the tree, which is NPS property.  Even in 1981, it was a major offense to dig on NPS property.  I expect a man of BP's genious would not make such a simple error as putting this where no one can possibly dig. 3) I used the wrong verse.  I personally do not believe this to be the case.  Everything fit perfectly. Looks like no one owes anyone a dollar yet. Thoughts?

Well, here's my 2 cents anyway.  The other casques I think were buried by stone walls.  I can't see a tree being part of any dig site. At least you have a shovel in the ground though.  Good work Lobster. As far as the verse goes, you made it fit real nicely.  Yet it still goes real nicely in NY.  Will it ever be proven either way?  Who knows.

As I have said previosuly, if it were not for the Cleveland find, we may all be thinking that this was a big hoax. Verse and Image fit here just as they fit in Milwaukee. The tree is in the same spot. The rock is in the same spot. Is there possibly another rock and tree?  (unlikely) "Beneath the only standing member of a forest to the south" "Get permission to dig out" You did not need 'permission' to dig where you were today. The white stone seems to be for verification of the 'only standing member' You have now given a good casue to believe it is on NPS property. I wonder if he hid this on just like he hid the Houston one or if he did get permision.... I feel your frustration.

I disagree with boogie about the tree - the Milwaukee verse is pretty explicit about it being buried at the foot of a tree. Why should this one be any different? And I agree completely with Trohn (for once!). Paraphrased, the end of the verse could read: Dig beneath the tree that's all alone to the south, You know - the one that has a white stone 12 paces west of it. And you'll need to ask before you dig. or... Dig beneath the tree that's all alone to the south, You know - the one that's nearest to the white stone. But you'll have to walk 12 paces due west first. The upshot is that the treasure could be (a) on the NPS side of the white stone or (b) 12 paces west of the tree, ignoring the stone altogether. These are different because the stone isn't exactly due west (as the raven flies!). Pacing off a treasure location was likely a deliberate play on the fact that Poe's "The Gold Bug" - one of the best treasure hunting stories ever - was set on Sullivan's Island, and pacing off locations is a classic part of unearthing buried pirate treasure in fiction. In "The Gold Bug," by the way, they get the location wrong at first (Jupe couldn't tell his right from left, and it turned out to be very important). But they realize their mistake and on the second try they find the treasure. The moral: don't give up! I very much doubt that BP got permission before burying the casque on NPS property, because then someone else would have known a casque location, something he kept closely guarded. Even JJP knew only a couple of locations.

lobster411 wrote:: I went today and found nothing.  We dug 4 feet deep over an area of about 16 square feet.  This took 4 hours. welcome to wilhouse's "dig till you drop club" there are several members.  you are the newest. the only perk to being in this club is calluses... wilhouse

I can't shake the belief that BP would be smarter than to bury it on NPS property, but it seems like the tree may be a viable option.  In the book, it was written that if one correctly solved the riddle, and was unable to dig it up, they could write in their solution and get the jewel anyway.  Could this be worth contacting Bantam Books about?

Being a new charter member to Wilhouse's DTYD club myself,  I can feel your disappointment.  But I can also tell you that it is far better to be able to put a shovel in it and try and dig it up than to know a possible location where permission is not granted to dig at all.  Been there done that.  You are out of the arm chair--think about it -- you really went digging for buried treasure. Just like in Milwaukee--there seemed to be part of the verse that we could never really account for.  Yours is that darn wingless bird.  Or like you said--its a different verse.  Look over your pictures in a few weeks--try to divorse yourself from previous asumptions-- and see it with new eyes--see if something strikes you.  Nice job all around.

part of the verse that could never really be accounted for.......Hmmmm.  Ain't that a female dog ! (Sorry, no offense ladies.  Didn't know what else to say) The verses can really mess us up here.

stercox wrote:: Yours is that darn wingless bird. Tying in with both:  my longstanding belief of this referring to a hot air balloon.... as well as...... with FB's mention of Poe's The Gold Bug .. why not look to The Great Balloon Hoax by Poe.  In part: "Edgar Allan Poe wrote a hoax centered on the first crossing of the Atlantic in a balloon and sold it to the New York Sun. It appeared on April 13, 1844 headlined in an extra heralding: "The Atlantic Crossed in Three Days!" The story went on to say: "The great problem is at length solved. The Air, as well as Earth and the Ocean, has been subdued by science, and will become a common and convenient highway for mankind. The Atlantic has actually been crossed in a balloon!" The story that followed was about five thousand words in length. To summarize it, Monck Mason had applied the principle of the Archimedian screw to the propulsion of a dirigible balloon. The gas bag was an ellipsoid thirteen feet long with a car suspended from it. The screw propeller, which was attached to the car, was operated by a spring. A rudder shaped like a battledore kept the airship on its course. The voyagers, according to the story, started from Mr. Osborne's home in North Wales, intending to sail across the English Channel. The mechanism of the propeller broke, and the balloon, caught in a strong northeast wind, was carried across the Atlantic at a speed of sixty or more miles an hour. Mr. Mason kept a journal, to which, at the end of each day, Mr. Ainsworth added a postscript. The balloon landed safely on the coast of South Carolina, near Fort Moultrie. " nice landing spot I must say.  Entire article here -> hxxp://www.historybuff.com/library/refballoon.html

It has been mentioned that the design in the butterfly wings looks like sea turtles. Sullivan's Island is an active turtle nesting site: hxxp://web.ccgnet.com/turtleteam/

fox wrote:: Tying in with both:  my longstanding belief of this referring to a hot air balloon.... as well as...... with FB's mention of Poe's The Gold Bug .. why not look to The Great Balloon Hoax by Poe.  In part: I had always thought that the wingless bird would begin to narrow down the location, but I just realized that this is completely unecessary!  If this is just another way to point to Fort Moultrie, then the next lines are still more than enough to find the tree and rock.  If we are to believe that this verse goes with Sullivan's Island, which I still believe it does, then I think this is the most plausible explaination for the meaning of the bird.

I think the big clue here would be the h type symbol pointing to the heart of Charleston in the African mask.  Unless you can find a map or something real close in the image that leads to Fort Moultrie. The h looks real intentional.  I still contend that the thing under the h is an old shoe with a face melting off looking to the right.

That symbol too has haunted me.

Has anyone else noticed what looks like a curvy arrow pointing right to Drum Island? I wonder if it's intentional.

Looks to be a whole lot going on in the map here.  How about this one in the butterfly...

Trying to keep Lobster going.  Do these #s mean anything to you?

boogie - interesting, but now that I look at your July 30 posting, I suddenly see what you were talking about. It's a good match to the white part of the butterfuly wing. What statue is that?

That statue is located at Brookgreen Gardens at Pawleys Inlet SC.  A little too far north for where we are looking, but I thought I would use it to express my thinking.

Little wacky, but here goes;  you can also see this in the book, not just the scans.  At first, i thought that the scans must have been marked up before uploading.  But I checked the book.  Tell me, anyone , that you see this. The middle guy looks like an LBJ

No bites on this one?  Thoughts?  Confirm or deny,  I know it looks absurd.  I know it doesn't look to fit in BP's style, but maybe it does for JJP.

Hummm.  Creative...  Not bad.  Thanks Fenix, I was expecting "hallucination".

Hallucination #2; Been out of work a month due to injury.  I better get back soon!

boogieman wrote:: Trying to keep Lobster going.  Do these #s mean anything to you? Sorry I've been gone for a while. hxxp://www.srcalifornia.com/Battles1775-77a.htm Notice the fourth one under the 1776 heading.  William Moultrie led an American force of 436 men during the battle of Sullivan's Island during the American revolution.  I can find none of the other numbers in the picture (British forces, casualties, deaths, etc), but if you can, please let me know. I remain completely convinced that this casque is at Fort Moultrie.

Perhaps a plaque/monument at the site includes these numbers.

Like this one? hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/550856866/2994455360091493633APJIkW This sign was only recently erected, but perhaps it replaces an older one...

forest_blight wrote:: Like this one? hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/550856866/2994455360091493633APJIkW This sign was only recently erected, but perhaps it replaces an older one... I remember this sign.  If I recall correctly, it was placed there in 1996 by a group of local veterens.  It is interesting to note that the figure in that sign is 435, which is 1 off from the desired 436.  Everything I have seen online indicates 436.

If you zoom in really close, you can see that it was erected in 2005 by the D.A.R. Perhaps some new information was discovered last year that let them revise the figure.

Hmm.  I must have been thinking of a different sign. In any case, the 436 seems to be another confirmer for Fort Moultrie.

Found this and thought it was woth sharing. note the similarity between the major roads (hwy 17) and the branch running thru P2.  The pear would fit over where historic Charleston lies.  Why a pear...?....still unsure, unless it may be that travelling east over the Cooper River from historic Charleston to the Mount Pleasant area, you cross over the Silas Pearman Bridge ...  Even the mask (Ft Sumter) is in the correct location on the map.  For further exploration of this page go to hxxp://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/travel/charleston/map.htm Marion Square

fox - see stercox' post of April 4. it's back a ways, but this idea has come up before. I like it a lot.

oops, sorry bout that FB....  Just trying to generate more interest again on a P that we are SURE of the city location...

Er.... ....this is the image I have found that pairs with verse 10, and I have a completely different location for the casque. ck

Do tell!

shecrab wrote:: Er.... ....this is the image I have found that pairs with verse 10, and I have a completely different location for the casque. ck different location than Charleston?...  You are going to have to do some serious convincing and basically have the exact location to dig to sway us on this P.

I thought I'd keep this one to myself until I can get to the location. That way I don't embarrass myself. Once I go to the location in the Spring, so I can see the place for myself, then I'll tell more. Actually, I have the image and the verse 100% decoded. It's a matter now of waiting for ground to thaw, because this one isn't diggable yet. But everything--and I do mean everything--fits like a glove. I'll tell you this: it's nowhere near the Carolinas. This one is in Canada. One of the keys is the word "rhapsodic". It has nothing to do with music. The rest also matches beautifully--but because of a certain ambiguity with the verse when giving the precise location, it is difficult to tell whether you go east from the right or left branch of the V. One way will take you to one location, and the other will take you somewhere else. It's not a big deal, but I can't be more precise until I go and look. And hey---if I'm wrong, then I'll have an amusing post for y'all. c

I am dying to know just where you believe this P to be leading us...especially since the map of Charleston SC is obviously and exactly depicted on the forehead of the strange mask.

fox - if the pointer thingy were indicating a spot in Charleston, then it would be level with the southern tip of Drum Island, no? On the other hand, I just discovered that The Citadel (Military College of SC) occupied the site on the north side of Marion Park from 1843 to 1922. Brings Verse 5 to mind. Hmmm... You can see some pictures I took in Marion Square last year here: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2136523510091493633RRQUQl

Jambone wrote:: I noticed something in Forest Blight's picture - the red, white, & blue stripes. just want to remind everyone of lobster's fantastic work.

lobster411 wrote:: How to find a tree, a white rock at twelve paces, but not a casque: We began the day at 6:00.  Rolling out of bed, we choked down some breakfast and jumped in the car.  Myself and two friends arrived at Fort Moultrie at 10 or 11, and we set out to look at two trees that were possible "only standing members..."  As it turns out, neither had a white stone of any kind near it.  On had a large dune to the west, but it could not really be described as white due to the plant growth.  We go to the car to get drinks feeling dejected. We decide to look around the fort and parade field.  We get horribly lost in the woods near the shore, and discover that small cactus plants hurt beyond all imagination.  I hold the record of getting stuck 18 times.  Owe. We then go to the beach to dip extra tee shirts in the water to wrap around our heads.  We look like fools and decide that it may not be too far from the truth. Back to the parade field.  Coming up from the west most part of the beach, we climb some white rocks to get back up to fort grounds.  We figure that with the large granite slabs around, it may be worth looking in this area.  It is. After only a few minutes of perusing this course.  We come upon this beauty: A feeling of solitude surrounds the tree.  It is definitely apart from the rest, but there are no granite slabs nearby.  Then, we see it:  the small glimmer of hope that we drove all this way for. We thought it was a benchmark, but there is no latitude or longitude present on it.  My since of distance says that this is too far away from the tree, but I decide to pace it off anyway. It was 25 steps.  That's 12 1/2 of my paces. Euphoria. I tried to circle the stone on the left side of the picture, but it didn't turn out too well with paint. We thought this was a benchmark at first, and a sense of desperation filled us.  There would be no way to dig here because it is on NPS property.  I seek the person with the most authority at Fort Moultrie, and after several hours of missed phone calls, I get a hold of him.  He says he'd be glad to meet me in his office. After talking to him, I find out that there is absolutely NO way to dig on NPS property.  Period.  If he wanted to, he couldn't. Seeking one final saving throw, I ask where the property line is.  Perhaps the tree and rock are inside the property line. After half an hour of talking to different people, I come to find out the beautiful truth.  The rock is not a benchmark, but a property marker.  The west side of it is not NPS property, but rather belongs to the state of SC, and it is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Ocean and Coastal Resources. More buerocracy. I call my dad, and he looks up the number.  I call them, and they tell me it's ok to dig there.  All he asked was, "I have to know... What is it you're digging up?"  I explain the story, and he says, "That is awesome.  Best of luck to you." We have permission to dig. The head honcho of the park insists of overseeing our digging.  Possibly this is because he is concerned about the possibility of crossing onto park property.  Possibly it is because he wants to watch our backs in case we get stopped by police, but I really think he just wanted to see if we would find anything. We didn't. The fort closes at 5:00.  The gentleman overseeing our digging gets off work at this time, so we are keeping him from going home (to the Mount Pleasant farmer's market no less).  We feel bad at 5:30 and decide to call it quits.  We dug three feet deep, but our hole was not very large in diameter.  Perhaps we missed it. I believe that this explains the significance of the last two lines of the verse.  If one "gets permission to dig out," as it says, he will find out that he cannot dig near the tree.  He can however dig on the west side of the rock.  This is the way I think the verse should read: Beneath the only standing member of a forest to the south of the fort, there is a white stone at twelve paces.  On the west side, get permission to dig out. The west side is the side not owned by Fort Moultrie BTW. I genuinely believe that this is the correct tree and stone.  I believe this because the white stone is of great significance.  It is not some random chunk of rock; it is an official marker that cannot be moved on penalty of law.  This would insure that the rock could not be moved. We are returning to try to dig later.  Possibly Saturday, possibly some time next week.  I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas. ANY. Until then, wish us luck. To view all the pictures, including a better picture of the property marker, go to: hxxp://img140.imageshack.us/slideshow/p ... 24uxb.smil That you all for your hard work on this. and this description of the final clues. white stone found - and no chance of it being moved

fox wrote:: the map/mask has an odd pointer thing which has not been identified yet...it appears to be pointing dead center Charleston at the park which I believe to be Marion Square.  X marks the spot I think if you look at the verses and want to go with V5, Fort Moultrie is the place to look. If you want to go with V6 or V2 (don't hit me anyone), then you can move to Marion Square. I can't imagine V5 going anywhere else in Charleston, not after all the work done on it so far. Can you dig there anyway? I don't think so- With or without permission. But the other two verses.....

shecrab wrote:: So why hasn't anyone dug anything up in Charleston? If you've been working on it that long, why hasn't anyone found anything yet? Wow.  I go on hiatus for a couple of months, and people being to light up this thread again. The explored location was dug at twice. EVERY part of the verse fit.  Even directions and distances were accurate. The only cryptic part of the verse is whether the casque is buried at the tree or the white rock. If it is buried under the tree, it is on the property of the National Park Service and is completely irretrievable.  To say that it wouldn't make sense to bury it here is misdirected.  Preiss buried these in secret in the dead of night.  He lacked permission to dig anywhere, and while I'd like to think he'd have the forsight to not bury it here, it should not be ruled out as a possibility. If it is buried at the rock, it has been displaced or destroyed.  Since 1982, the spot was hit by Hurricane Hugo, displacing up to a foot of the sandy ground.  Since then, 3 kinds of pipe have been laid over the exact spot the casque should be.  That means that dirt was clumsily moved by indiscriminate bulldozers thrice. Why wasn't the casque found?  It is either impossible to retrieve, or it is scattered in hundreds of beautifully unique shards over several hundred feet of earth. I appreciate hope as much as the next guy, but I don't think anyone could ask for a more perfect solution than the one I tried to employ.  I hesitate to say 'mine,' because many here did far more work than I. Continue on whatever strand you have if you must.  I pray that you'll be able to tell me you told me so, but I have no shred of uncertainty as to the solution to this riddle.

Unknown: Continue on whatever strand you have if you must.  I pray that you'll be able to tell me you told me so, but I have no shred of uncertainty as to the solution to this riddle. I am encouraged in this hunt only because after 20 years, a casque was still found underground. That is really the only thing that keeps me interested in it--I do not care if I "win" anything or if what I do win is worth any dollar figure. Thing is, I know you all say you have these "perfect" solutions--and believe me, I've been through every post on here and tweleve.org as well, and followed as many links as possible, when they work--and still I can't help feeling that you sometimes "talk yourselves into" a solution more than have a perfect one. That's not a criticism--not by any means. I may be doing the same thing here--and only my own experiences will tell me if that is the case. But a lot of times, what I see is that once a location is possible, or once there is some marker found to link a verse and an image, that few other ideas are entertained. Again--I'm not criticizing, this is the observation of someone who read all the posts at one time--from beginning to end. It may not be easy to see this pattern emerging if you're starting a thread and posting every day or week for a long while. And there are far fewer of you who are actively doing this hunt, so you tend to believe in each other more than if you were not known well to each other, or just single members of a very large forum. So, that said, I will say that I don't have this image (2) paired with the verse(s) you have used. I have it paired with Verse 10. The markers, the image elements, the latitude and longitude and the map all fit very tightly--I have not dug there yet, because the ground is frozen and will be for some time. And the areas I would need to visit are now closed. I understand that there might be some shifts in landscape and location over the past two decades. However, I can't help thinking that Preiss would have chosen locations where this would be less likely to happen. Who knows, really? I don't yet. And I'm not claiming that my solution to this image/verse is correct--only a casque will prove that. I'll post my solution after I go there and scout out the terrain and possibly try to dig. If I'm wrong, then I'll post it and we can all laugh at my folly. As far as I'm concerned there is no certainty until something has been found or until all possibilities have been entertained equally. And remember, this is not criticism of anyone here or their methods--it's just my opinion coming at it from the 'outside' and from a distance away. ck

That white stone IS a benchmark, but it is called a "Triangulation Disk" it is a different form of a benchmark. It sounds like it is there. By the way, those three colors seem to be the French Flag colors. I think we got it.

shecrab wrote:: And there are far fewer of you who are actively doing this hunt, so you tend to believe in each other more than if you were not known well to each other, or just single members of a very large forum. I hear you, shecrab. Passionate defense of cherished theories keeps the debate raging and motivates us to look for more confirming evidence. But the fact that multiple theories are entertained by the group is a good thing. I think anyone here would be more than happy to have their favorite theories quashed if it meant finding a casque in an unexpected location. And for the record, I believe only 1% of what trohn says. But it's that 1% that keeps me coming back for more!

forest_blight wrote:: And for the record, I believe only 1% of what trohn says. But it's that 1% that keeps me coming back for more! Finally, I am being heard!!!

um...Did you say something? edit: shecrab, I'm with FB on this.  Meaning, I hope you are right.  I love V10 for NY, but i'll give it to you on a platter.  I have a strong gut feeling for NY.  I had the "moment" of clarity for sure, but I'm not 100%.  I can see it fitting almost anywhere with a grey giant and a bridge.  Why not Canada?  But, P2?  What lats and longs do you have?  Maps?  Landmarks?  Call me crazy, but I think out of all the unsolved images, Charleston has got to be the closest to 100% as you can get.  I'm curious, but I'll wait til spring if you feel that strongly.  Ah, 2 more weeks! LOL

I too agree with FB, boogie AND Trohn (occasionally).  It is not that we are not open to new ideas around here...yes, we do tend to glom onto a good thing.  I will be the first (nay, at least the second to say..including yourself SC) that there is no way to give a definitive YES to which V goes with this P2....but.... to say it is somewhere besides Charleston is going to be hard to convince.  The map of Charleston and Ft Sumter are just too exact for it to be elsewhere. Yes, find the casque elsewhere and the boards will again be jumping with joy as it was w/ Sir Egg's find.

Did anyone ever come up with a good explanation for the slit-like eyes in the mask and the Ft. Sumpter plan view?  Where they show up in 2 places like that, I can't help but think there's some significance. I think you found the tree, Lobster.  The verse sounds like it's by the tree, itself, to me.

The only other thought I had was about the pear tree branch in the image.  There's the pear hanging from it but it doesn't seem to have pear tree leaves.  I decided the tree was bald cypress from looking at a website of South Carolina trees.  For awhile I was thinking the only standing member of a forest might mean the only bald cypress in an area of other trees, but based on Lobster's findings, I don't think so anymore, although I'm still wondering why they aren't pear tree leaves.

I think the common theory is that the pear represents the Silas Pearman bridge, which would have been where the pear is hanging when the branch is interpreted as a map.  The discrepancy between the needles and the fruit is something that I've noticed, but haven't put much thought into. ...and the findings belong to the group, not just me.

Greetings fellow armchair treasure hunters, I've only been working on The Secret for about 1 month, initially through downloading the images and verses, and reading the extended threads for the casques in Houston, TX and Milwaukee, WI.  I just received a used copy of the actual book in the mail, I decided to read through this entire thread today.  Here are my current beliefs regarding Image 2 / Verse 5: 1)  The casque is definitely in the Charleston, SC area.  The combination of the 32/33 79/80 lat/long box, the map of rivers and land masses in the mask, and the precise shape of Fort Sumter in the second mask put this into the DEFINITE category for me. 2)  The Verse 5 argument for the Fort Meier area is in the "very good possibility" category for me, but not definite.  The 22 1/2 = "Lane two twenty two" is almost a match, but is just enough of a reconfiguration to leave some room for doubt in my mind.  Same with L'on avenue matching the large lion in the image - possibly.  I like the granite walls connection to the Fort itself.  But I'm not sure that the "A wingless bird ascended" is supposed to point to the Balloon Hoax of Edgar Allen Poe.  In his story, the balloon started in England and arrived (descended) on Sullivan's Island, so why isn't the clue "A wingless bird descended"? 3)  As for the particular tree and white marker found by lobster411 (great post by the way!), I have one main reason why I don't think it is the right location:  The distance from the tree to the white stone marker was described in this way: "It was 25 steps.  That's 12 1/2 of my paces." .  As far as I know, the definition of "pace" is ambiguous, either one step or two (see hxxp://www.letterboxing.info/articles/00000014.php ).  Can we determine which definition is used in The Secret from the "100 paces" distance mentioned in verse 8 for the Milwaukee, WI casque?  I know that one hasn't been found either, but most of the path for it was nailed down pretty well, so was that based on 5 foot or 2 1/2 foot long paces? 4)  Some have suggested that the three bands of color in the Fort Sumter shaped mask are red, white and blue, matching the French flag in the display near there.  I have examined my book very carefully under bright light and judge that the colors are in fact red, yellow, and green.  The yellow is clearly different in color than the white star to the right of it, and the green is definitely different from the blue present on the rest of the image.  I believe the red/yellow/green combination is another pointer to the Africa country theme, because these three colors are known as the Pan-African colors: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-African_colors So, there's my first post, for what it is worth! Thanar

Whoops, my post above under (3) should read "I have one main reason why I'm UNSURE IF it is the right location", rather than "I don't think"... Thanar

Nice post Thanar, welcome to the fun house One point to highlight from your rundown "lane two twenty two" Starts off the verse and the first lines of the verses are both specfic and cryptic in that they put you in a very very exact spot to then follow the rest of the clues (on the poetic journey as it were) If you start off at the right spot as BP you are more than half on your way. 'Lane' by itself is significant that the road you are on should be obvious, directional, and unmistakeable.  I believe the draw bridge onto Sullivan Island fits this bill.  (No turning arouind once you get started) 'Two twenty two" by itself is also significant.  It recomfirms that you were on the right lane.  The road onto Sullivan Island from the draw bridge is 'Station twenty two' and just a street in when you are forced to bear right, you are confronted with 'Station twenty two 1/2' So there in fact, from the proper 'Lane' you are on twenty-two and then when you ask yourself, should I be going right?, you are confronted with the 'second' twenty-two.  Heading to Fort Moultrie.

Unknown: Can we determine which definition is used in The Secret from the "100 paces" distance mentioned in verse 8 for the Milwaukee, WI casque?  I know that one hasn't been found either, but most of the path for it was nailed down pretty well, so was that based on 5 foot or 2 1/2 foot long paces Welcome Thanar!  When I paced out the Milwaukee site it was just a regular walked off measurement around 2 1/2 ft per pace--if it helps.

Nice to have a new set of eyes around here Thanar..welcome to the Zoo (no wilhouse, not your zoo... hehehehehe)

Welcome! Glad you could join in the hunt! There's still one or two casques left, I think!

Hey all, I was thinking about how to link this image with a verse and as has already been mentioned with the casques that have been found V12 was linked to P5 with the statue of the indian riding the horse in the Picture with the line WHERE M AND B ARE SET IN STONE in the Verse.  And V4 was linked to P4 by the columns (although this could have also applied to P8).  Anyway, V5 talks about an arc of lights and if you look at P2 you can clearly see an arc of lights reflected in the eyes of the lion.  Perhaps it is a bit of a stretch but of all the images in the various pictures it is the only one where the eyes reflect something Just my two cents, digger7

Not a stretch digger, good observation. Matching the verses with the images (correctly) has I think made this set of puzzles delightful and frustrtaing.

sorry guys about not getting back sooner about my ideas but things got crazy around here. i only had a quick trip to charleston awhile back, and then most of my pictures are of my b/f's ancestors' houses, tho the trip was supposed to be for me! i still haven't reread my notes, but these ideas are still in my head. if this goes with verse 5 and fort moultrie: osceola --"the only standing member" at the fort--------osceola avenue poe--"a wingless bird ascended born of ancient dreams of flight" poe avenue both of these roads are right at the fort i don't like the word "paces" because it is so ambiguous, but there is a station "twelve" right beside the fort. here are some pictures: hxxp://www.postyourimage.com/view_image ... 1201703480 oops "a" picture,  i'm having problems uploading, but will try again later, the road signs are all on upright white stone posts. i have a picture of osceola avenue, poe avenue, station 22, station 12, the grave surrounded by wroght iron, the arch of the doors and a hall way, i have other ideas if it goes with verse 6, which i like because of the "edwin and edwina" quote being about charleston

osceola avenue osceola grave station 12 poe avenue wind swept halls arch station 22

Please also keep in mind that a short road at the beach, east (?) of the Fort is " L'on Road"  (pronounced 'lion') It has been photographed and posted earlier. It is in direct proximity to the likely 'last standing memeber to the south'

yes i like that l'on avenue too, especially since the lion is such a big part of the image. i should have said sullivan's island instead of ft. moultrie. trying to get back into this charleston hunt, (sorry, forts just don't hold much interest for me, lol) one thing, if verse 6 instead of 5, i remembered out of all those guns and things, some are called parrot guns......wanted to keep that in mind for the part about "stand and listen to the birds"

if this image goes with verse 6, i like the area around the market hall "White house close at hand"--Edward Brickell White designed the Market Hall "Fair"---can be a gathering to promote business....you know, like a market the custom house and the and several theaters are here, dock street theater, used to be planters hotel, is where Booth(the elder) stayed when he played Othello in charleston

of course i'm getting verse 5 and 6 mixed up....i got all excited about Rainbow Market and Rainbow Row for "an arc of lights", it is up around the market hall.....still, something to keep in mind here's a picture: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/strangelittleg ... 125130915/ The Brass Pirate store is there too........checking to see how long they've been there

this is interesting because of the "daisy" in the picture, and it's right around white point gardens If you walk a little further down South Battery, you'll be opposite the corner of Church Street. Note the house on the right. It's white with columns and was built as a wedding present in 1890. This is the "Villa Margherita," and it was built in the "Chicago Exposition Style" for a New Orleans belle by a Charlestonian named Andrew Simonds. Her name was Daisy, and the house was named in her honor. In 1909, and several husbands later, Daisy turned the house into an inn. It was run in great style by an extraordinary Charleston woman, Miss Leize Dawson. Some of the notables who graced the inn included Henry Ford, Alexander Graham Bell, Barbara Hutton and both Roosevelts. John F. Kennedy also lived in the area briefly during the Second World War. In the 1920s, they served a soup called diamondback terrapin, or turtle soup, which at the time went for $25 a bowl. The Villa Margherita also boasts South Carolina's first indoor swimming pool, located in the atrium. In the peak of the spring season the Villa rented guest rooms in the surrounding neighborhood. That was the beginning of the Bed and Breakfast practice in Charleston. Many a household paid its taxes on the proceeds.

Slappy, did you at any time find an anchor? especially one which might have been raised UP on the side of a house or building, or a pole, or statue's base? The reason I'm asking is this: " beneath the long palm's shadow" . The 'points' on an anchor are called palms. On some anchors, one of the palms will be longer than the other. I thought maybe there might be a visible anchor somewhere where the sun could shine on it, and create a shadow beneath the 'long palm.'

ck, no it was a not so great trip, lol.  my b/f had left his credit card at a restaurant near myrtle beach on the way to charleston. (we didn't know, of course, until we got to charleston)  we called the restaurant and they would hold the card, but the next day was a holiday and some places were closed, and what with him worrying about that..... i had like a day and a half to see ft. moultrie, white point gardens and ft. sumter and downtown charleston and see all the houses and churches that his family had lived and preached and the aquarium.  so it was  like,  click click click (pictures) and move on to the next,  lol plus, he has no interests in a treasure hunt! strange person huh? i remember your posting that about the anchors, i will start research on that as i research all these areas, ok? (taking a break from boston OR canada ) i do have some pictures of washington square because i was interested in the "4 corners of the law" downtown, but they aren't great and my white point gardens pictures would probably just be doubles of cthree's.  i took some of "liberty square" also, which is right there where you take the boat to ft. sumter. which reminds me, "fair" could also mean "square" ........like, fair and square,

when i look at the map someone posted of the silas pearman bridge, they have patriot's point right after the pear but when i look at it i see the dancer girl, top half around mount pleasant, so the bottom half is patriot's point, and the limbs coming down pointing to sullivan's island and isle of palms. am i looking at it wrong? i also thought of drum island because of the dancer girl but i believe i read it is unihabitable.

slappybuns wrote:: when i look at the map someone posted of the silas pearman bridge, they have patriot's point right after the pear but when i look at it i see the dancer girl, top half around mount pleasant, so the bottom half is patriot's point, and the limbs coming down pointing to sullivan's island and isle of palms. am i looking at it wrong? i also thought of drum island because of the dancer girl but i believe i read it is unihabitable. you are reading the map correctly. The mask is representative of Fort Sumpter.

thanks trohn i'm still jumping around all over, but look at these masks on king street in some parlor...i think it is up there around marion square park i'm not sure if the right side is a reflection or what but it looks like a skull. hxxp://flickr.com/photos/bigstimuli/352 ... otostream/

Trohn wrote:: you are reading the map correctly. The mask is representative of Fort Sumpter. Kinda like the map thing.  Looks alot like some of digger's ideas on the "Possible Clues" thread.  The limbs pointing down to the jewel.  Sullivan's Island.  Can we nail the darn verse now?  WTF?

I really like this one. I found this prominant fountain in Charleston. I believe it is the solve for the pine branch and the pear (apple family) in the image, thus "pine"-"apple". You can find many more and probably better pictures than this one online.

Erm....the apple AND the pear are members of the rose family. The pear is not a member of the "apple family."  And what about the Pear man bridge???? Besides...this fountain is in Waterfront park, and that park wasn't opened until 1990. Boy, you know...I'm not the one to ever think that new ideas are bad or wrong on this forum---and I'll be the first one to champion anyone who comes up with one. But some of the ideas you've presented are just--well--arbitrary.  The solves for Charleston and Boston are so solid, why deconstruct them to make the rest fit? I see you both have done a huge amount of work on this, for which I applaud you--yet I find so much of what you've shown to be forced or ignored--or both. I wish I could say I thought you had really solved the book--but I don't think there is a formula at all. It's all too pat. But hey---if you are right, even if you're right about some of it, then good for you!

Shecrab, As much as I want a casque to be in Boston, I am not convinced by most of the evidence so far.  I believe: Th. and Xenophon are there (but maybe not oriented correctly, a concern); 42 on the wristband.  The Paul Revere reference 18th day, 12th hour (which must be a double clue giving more information about the exact spot to dig somehow...)  The rest is unconvining.

Oh, I believe that most of the evidence points to Boston--that isn't a problem for me at all. What is, is the exact location of the casque. Though there is a lot of matching imagery in Copley Square, I have a very hard time believing that Copley is the location because there just isn't a lot of area in which one might bury a casque. However, I do believe the casque could be in the North End--where "all the letters are there to see" (the street names--A St., B St., etc.) and where Black Falcon Ave. is at the waterfront. I think the evidence points at Boston--in fact, of all the locations mentioned, this is one of the few that has a solid connection for me. I am curious as to what you don't agree with, though, Rihel--can you elaborate?

Shecrab, I have added some comments on this to image 11, where it fits better, but I will elaborate here. The street names as letters and the Falcon are in the South End, not the North End, isn't it?  Regardless, I'm just pointing out that I can find similar vague clues in almost any city in America.  Lettered streets in New York City, Washington DC, just to name 2, and I can play the same game with every image clue so far, I can find a globe/ball/sphere in many cities, and I can find a falcon/hawk/bird of prey reference in most cities as well. Contrast those clues with the wall and columns in the Grecian Cultural Garden, or the Milwaukee building (and Milwaukee rebus), or the water tower in Chicago, or the map of Charleston, S.C. in the skull.  Those unambiguously place casques in those cities.  I mean, these seem so spot on to me that if you showed them to one of your friends who think that this whole treasure hunting hobby is nutty, they would have to agree that the match is real, and maybe they would even search themselves for more clues.  But, just for a sobering experience, take image 11, and start showing a friend, while explaining, "See, there is a globe, for Boston Globe, and there is a falcon, for Black Falcon, and there is a T, for the subway, and there is a castle-- Castle Island, and there is a 42, and if you look cross-eyed, you can see a 71, and her hair kind of looks like the outline of the wharfs in the city....."  I tried this and my friend commented that it reminded her of the scene in A Beautiful Mind, when Nash was seeing patterns in magazines. But, when I show her the picture of the wall in Cleveland and the image in the book, she says, "No question."  Same for Milwaukee. And the detail in that Charleston map is also pretty striking. Now, it may turn out that all of these vague clues are "confirmers" for a Boston location, but without the real solid stuff, I am worried that we might be "digging in the wrong place!" That's all I meant.  We have to put all our assumptions under scrutiny until we hit the jackpot clue.

message deleted...reposted under "Image 11".

shecrab wrote:: Erm....the apple AND the pear are members of the rose family. The pear is not a member of the "apple family."  And what about the Pear man bridge???? Besides...this fountain is in Waterfront park, and that park wasn't opened until 1990. Thanks for clearing up the apple/ pear family relation. What I was trying to point out is I think it is enough that they are in the same family. Good find Shecrab on the Pineapple Fountain built in 1990. Did you find anything on why they chose a pinapple in your search? Seems like a curious choice.

The pineapple is a symbol of hospitality in Colonial America. You see the motif repeated in many ways--if you crochet, you'll know the famous "Pineapple" doilies; if you look at early American fabrics and prints, you'll see pineapples depicted; if you look at decorative motifs on furniture (esp. the legs and pedestals of tables) you'll see pineapples carved in the wood.

Wow...never saw this message before when preparing to post here: "Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days. Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic. " I can't believe P2 thread had made it all the way to page 3 of the threads.  Was just browsing pictures of White Point Gardens and came accross the gazebo that many have mentioned. hxxp://flickr.com/photos/13453262@N03/2246137271/ I always wondered about the eye shapes on the mask w/ map head and always thought there was a pronounced "h" or "n" utilizing the left eye.  Could that extension upwards between the eyes simply be the extended molding between the arches of the gazebo? *one thing I find kind of funny is that any house/home/abode/etc..w/in this park, regardless of it's color, could be considered a "White house".

fox not sure why we would need to start another topic on p-2 ............... but as far as the eyes not sure it was mentioned, they look like bolts that uses a flat headed screwdriver and the mouth looks,  like a white picket fence with 2 something at the ends, and a path maybe for the bar, at the bottom of mouth, then there is the red, white, blue, bars and the star, says flag,american, something maybe a monument, with a flag on it bolts, bars, star, fence, maybe if you were standing there it would make sense

Didn't start a new topic on P2...I just moved it up since we may want to start looking this over again with the location of the correct V.

One more vote for I2 being Charleston SC The shadow on the right side of the lion's forhead... hxxp://www.kickoffzone.com/articles/ima ... _Logo1.jpg If you google map Charleston SC and hit satelite then look at fort Sumpter you can even see the flagpole in the middle of the perfectly shaped fort. The Shadow on the map part of the mask is very similar to the outline shape of the lighthouse on Sullivan's Island. The bronzed skin butterfly lady is wearing a bikini of sorts appropriate for being at the beach and if you put her wings together you should see a clear symbol of a sea turtle.

hxxp://im1.shutterfly.com/procgtaserv/4 ... 2bJo0ZM2Xg

Hmmm... too quiet here.

The day before yesterday, while searching for puzzles to solve (a hobby), I came across a blurb on the book The Secret and was instantly intrigued by the whole story and the fact that most of the "treasure" remains undiscovered. I couldn't resist joining the hunt, so I located scans of the images from the book and decided to try my hand at "decoding" one. I started by listing the main objects visible in the selected image. Then I thought of the larger context (be it cultural, scientific, etc.) of said object and looked for hidden clues in/on the object. I asked silly questions like "What is this object? What do I know about objects of this type?" Repeating this exercise gave me a handy chart to "add up" the various clues and a "solution". I chose Image 2 because it seems to picture "tribal" masks or woodcarvings and a (African) lion. (I'd just re-watched The Ghost and the Darkness recently, so my mind was still on Africa.) I played around and came up with my own conclusions about what the image foretold, but I still had a certain questions and doubts. So after some online searching I found this site, registered, waited to be approved, and now after having waded through all the posts pertaining to this image, I thought I would share a few highlights from my conclusion not yet mentioned (or so I recall). Image Location Highlights : Aside: In addition to being the birth flower for the month of April, the daisy flower attracts butterflies (in gardens) and there is a "butterfly" hovering near (what I think is an) Oxeye daisy in the picture. Aside: On the scanned image which I downloaded the bars on the pentagonal mask ornament look "red, white, and blue", couple this with the white star on the mask's other cheek and I immediately thought of the "star(s) and bars" (or the Stars and Bars flag, which was the 1st national flag of the Confederacy). This flag (with three big stripes and 7 stars) first flew over Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor, SC in 1861. Aside: The pear (unlike the Fort Sumter mask ornament) is not just hanging on the tree branch, it is literally attached by its stem or grafted. A graft is a man-made, physical joining of two separate segments, just as a bridge functions on a roadway; a branch is also defined as a road or way. Thus pear graft = pear bridge = Silas N. Pearman Bridge in Charleston. Before it was blown up at least. Each "level" of the image's deconstruction focuses on a map, and each subsequent map is a "zoom-in" view of the previous one until finally one reaches the final destination (the park). a) The "etched" map of the South Carolina coastline at Charleston on the tribal skull; b) The close-up of a distended Charleston peninsula  (I think) as a "birthmark" on the lion's forehead; c) The street-ways map from the grafted pear (Pearman Bridge) over the moth/butterfly wings (peninsula sand bars) to points beyond (Sullivan's Island); d) and finally the outline of Fort Moultrie itself as a "blotch" on the lion's right cheek. By following the progression of visual maps it is "impossible" to arrive anywhere else besides Fort Moultrie (even without the longitude and latitude clues). Verse Collusion Highlights: I too, paired Image 2 with Verse 5. Initially, because of the obvious Charleston reference (i.e., the best known "citadel" in the USA is located in Charleston, SC). However, the phrase "Citadel in the night" was the first of what I call a 'double clue' reference. It could be a literal reference to the Citadel (citadel.edu) or it could also reference Fort Moultrie (a fort can be thought of as a "citadel" or fortress -- not all citadels are forts, but forts can be citadels). Considering that the Citadel is located on Moultrie Street, it may very well reference both. The second possible "double clue" in the verse is the line "a wingless bird ascended". The phrase "wingless bird" has been prominently used as a metaphor for at least two man-made creations that I could find easily (in addition to the wingless birds of natural occurrence); the first of these man-made creations is a literary device, the second is the hydraulic elevator. The famous British writer Coleridge describes poetical prose as a wingless bird ("a metaphysical Bustard"). [Reference: Such Rare Citings , the first full-length account of the British prose poem, its history, and status as a genre, by Nikki Santilli. p 215. hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=Ra0LQ9xpe6oC ] There is also at least one book and poem with similar title. Taking all this into consideration, it is interesting (but not conclusive) that Poe's "wingless bird" (The Gold Bug) "ascended" (was written, created, dreamed up, took flight) at Fort Moultrie in the 1880s. I found the more likely reference to be an hydraulic elevator. When the hydraulic elevator was first introduced several news stories of the day used this specific phrase "The upward flight of the great wingless bird" to refer to the contraption. Such as: Harper's New Monthly Magazine . Published by Harper & Brothers, 1882 Item notes: v.65 [ hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=SsoaAA ... #PPA893,M1 ] And there's even a retrospective on the hydraulic elevator which refers to it as "a wingless bird" in the title, so the terminology would seem to be an acknowledged descriptor. Thus we have the Sullivan's Island lighthouse (officially called Charleston Light), the last lighthouse built by the U.S. Coast Guard (1962). The Charleston Light is unique: it's the only three-sided lighthouse; it's the only lighthouse in the USA with siding; and it's the only lighthouse in the USA, (and possibly the world), that has an elevator. [ hxxp://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep ... r_mo54218/ ] I will end by saying that I also believe the casque in question is most likely located beneath a tree at Fort Moultrie National Monument on Sullivan's Island, SC and that in all probability it cannot be retrieved (due to the NPS regs). Boy is this a disappointment! PS If I've repeated anything, just consider it summarization and "expoundering." Please forgive the extra-long first post....

nice post unschliemann! that is interesting about the lighthouse and the elevator, i'd never heard that b4. are u gonna go hunting? i've been there for a quick run thru of the places mentioned, well, some of them, and i've seen that lighthouse, i don't see how it could hurt anything there, so i would ask someone there at the fort who'd u 'd need permission or how to go about getting permission.  i hope you're going hunting, we need more hunters

nice post unschliemann and welcome to the hunt

cw0909 wrote:: nice post unschliemann and welcome to the hunt Yes indeed....welcome to the madhouse uns... Stock up on those aspirins my friend.

unschliemann wrote:: Aside: On the scanned image which I downloaded the bars on the pentagonal mask ornament look "red, white, and blue", couple this with the white star on the mask's other cheek excellent first post, welcome to the hunt I agree with you that the middle bar and the star look white on the scanned image but on the original they are both yellow......sort of a cream color actually.  At least that is how they look to me.

i always thought the bar white and star cream color, in the original and wondered if that had some meaning to it , that i couldnt figure out

Thanks for welcoming me to the fold, everyone! I'm glad to have found this place. One might ask, what color/s are the star and bars, actually? Part of the problem with image reproduction is the "smudging" of chroma. Then, of course, the human eye (via the brain) is known to "fill in blanks" based upon what one expects to see. We can only guess what the artist intended to convey, if anything, by use of a specific color. Either way, it was funny to me that one of my first reactions to the image (prior even to my recognizing the Charleston, SC coastline map on the tribal skull) led me right to Ft. Sumter. The mind is a "terrible" thing...

i've been rereading this thread,  unschliemann and i saw where ravel07 had mentioned that elevator b4, i just didn't remember it. but since i reread all this, i have lots of new ideas to add what with my studying the fair folks, i do think they are just generalizations, this image is the african image, and only 2 of the fair folks go with specifically with this one ( i think).......the GARDENgoyle[b] [/b]: HOUSEHOLD, and the BOOGIE MAN[b] [/b], CULTURALl...................the spirit of '76-POLITICAL, jack b. nimbus-ENVIRONMENTAL and chicago world's fairy-rREGIONAL, go with all of the images (if i recall) i like white point gardens ,  because it' s (duh) a garden and cultural and i like the white points on the butterfly girl notes from "the gardengoyle": garden, sand, (sandlapper statue) (Saharan, serengeti desert), abiding taste for water (fountain), large frisky green spirit resembling an ambulatory shock of corn,, small withered brownish rust slighted ambulatory to me meant laying down, but it means able to move around.........like the parrot guns? it also means a place for cover out of the weather i think (the gazebo) notes from "the boogie man": music, dances, black, tan and blue, lion's pride (image, king street), "shines on the wings of a jungle bird" made me think of the parrot guns,, middle class defectors (stede bonnet, gentleman pirate)looking to score on a credit plan, making beauty out of junk (the capstan? , or the guns?) ,he’s still getting down, when youre getting up ....sundial, morning hours?  2 white puppets trying to dance in too tight (the defender's monument) another idea i had for "Fair" was like "fair weather". (jack b. nimbus)...for the sundial, hmm and the shadow would move and then usually in poetry, "Fair" is usually talking about a woman and that defender's monument with the shields (looks like the circles in the image to me) has the state seal, with the lady representing charleston and "hope" (spirit of '76 mentions hope also). the lady seems to be "hanging" out of nowhere.........(pirates were hung) limbs, arms (between two arms), tree limbs, or statues' arms or legs, or the military arms (cthree's munitions) (in the image the lady's arms are crossed) jambone found "below the bar that binds", homer, about achille's "heel", a statue's heel, or ..........maybe just the sandbar i saw someone's picture where at the base of the hunley, had scrollwork like the butterfly lady's hair captain flint from treasure island.....capstan, lol simms wrote the Cassique of Kiawah" , looks mighty close to "casque", couldn't find out what it meant one of cthree's pictures had bricks with state names in it....was washington, dc in one of the bricks?  like for, "white house"? sorry, my notes are so jumbled, most of this is not new, most came from cthree's posts and everyone else's, i think forest_blights find about edward blyden, is just pertaining to charleston (on one of the statues?) cthree said the "hunley" said something about the 8th. anyway, hope you guys are still looking here

slappy found this in reference to simms wrote the Cassique of Kiawah", looks mighty close to "casque", couldn't find out what it meant this is all i good get, second paragraph hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=128X55 ... &ct=result and the golf course hxxp://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... +of+Kiawah

does it mean chief cw? the bust of simms is in white point gardens, that's why i mentioned him.  i looked through so many pictures, mostly, cthree's, cedarcell's,  and forest_blight's i think.  i was trying to find something from verse 6 to fit, ...........and to see if there was any merit to studying the fair people hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... f533de0874 forest_blight's picture of pirate's: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 3633hzSGsQ "just deserts".........which could be "deserts" like saharan and serengeti...........doesn't this sound like the wordplay BP would have used? cedarcell's hunley fountain: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359KzjRve "abiding taste for water" cthree's pics" hxxp://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516Evwswu is washington, dc one of these?...........and is it close to the pirate memorial? cthree's pics" hxxp://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516qTWxLz defenders slit in gazebo: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/13453262@N03/2246137271/ cthree's sandlapper: hxxp://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516eVcMgF i was thinking this was the clubfoot from the boogie man.........but now i'm thinking,  foot......square ("clubfoot set so square") cthree's sundial: hxxp://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516VPPbnP cedarcell's base of hunley: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359jyKbjc the lady's hair cedarcells water meter covers: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359JwCArz cedarcell's sumter memorial: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359SgtTtm hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359fwQWyG and another one: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/badbadivy/190419838/ cedarcell' arm extended: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359IjFexK forest_blight's: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/29 ... 3633uqfzBi you know, fort sumter is just "hanging" by a rope (in the image) ( a reference to the pirate memorial?)...........i'm leaning to the pirate's memorial because our lady (in the image)  is just HANGING THERE, OUT ON A LIMB! ............

cthree said this long ago, talking about the mask in the image: Cthree’s: "Fang Ngil type.--this applies of course to the african theme but keep in mind that this mask signified a judicial responsibility" justice was carried out by hanging.... so.............what do you guys think???

does it mean chief cw? no i dont think so, just a literary use of the word, to describe the human spirit maybe it is a clue to s.c. as simms wrote the book, about mans new ideas for the new world, yet he was carrying, his same old immorals to carolina, through the use of slavery. the book is about what went on in carolina. this link describes the book hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=128X55 ... t#PPA13,M1 the pirate's link, made me chuckle as my last name is worley, and their are and were, several richards no one ever mentioned,  pirate's though in our history, will have to check that again, as the worleys came out of the carolinas hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 3633hzSGsQ

lol, cw................it must be your relatives!  you're still a treasure hunter! that's interesting about the "human spirit" to me.......in the boogieman, it talks about a spirit........i had just liked the word cassique......

another reference to cassique hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=qp0KAA ... A72-IA1,M1 v-6 to this pic if i rememeber right Simms, William Gilmore, 1806–70, American novelist, b. Charleston, S.C. He wrote prolifically, both prose and poetry, but it is for his historical romances about his own state that he is remembered Simms, William Gilmore (1806–70) writer; born in Charleston, N.C. After the death of his mother (1808), he was raised by his maternal grandmother and schooled locally. He was admitted to the bar (1827), but spent his time writing poetry and working as an editor in Charleston. He became a prolific writer of historical romances, notably The Yamassee: A Romance of Carolina (1835). link for above hxxp://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary. ... am+Gilmore have not read The Yemassee yet it may have a line from v-6, will check yep i guess treasure hunting is in the blood.....lol

does it mean chief cw? it could if you spell it dif like this, pronounced the same ca·cique (k-sk) n. 1. An Indian chief, especially in the Spanish West Indies and other parts of Latin America during colonial and postcolonial times. 2. A local political boss in Spain or Latin America. American Spanish, from Arawak kassequa, chieftain.] hxxp://www.thefreedictionary.com/cacique

wow cw, you are good at research!  but i'm not sure if any of that is shown on the monument of him, just when i did a quick search on him i had seen that word and it caught my eye, lol. there might be something with simms that goes with "the boogieman" about the grandfatherly spirt, truth seeker and dreamer, or something like that, no time to check exact words...i know all that makes u think of martin luther king or sojourner truth..but remember, i think all the guide does is general and maybe wordplay (or, i'm hoping or thinking, just maybe small hints) i found out that olmsted did design white point gardens: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/hdescopeland/3010023874/ but i'm going to concentrate on looking for the "edwin and edwina named after him" part.  maybe on one of the crew lists on the memorials, maybe there is someone named AFTER edward, or edwina. the only thing so far with edward, is knowing that stede bonnet joined blackbeard (edward teach), which still makes me think of " the long arm of the law , which could go with "below the bar that binds" and "beside the " long palm's shadow and there was a captain edward anderson i read about, but not sure if he is mentioned on one of the war memorials. i have got to go back and look at the crew lists pictures, not much time today, but still convinced it has something to do by the pirates monument, with the hanging of ft. sumter, she's hanging on a limb, and now the "long arm" of the law.........and the " bar exam for justice,

slappybuns wrote:: "beside the " long palm's shadow Nothing terribly important to share but I just came up with another odd idea after reading the part of your post I quoted above.  Where ever this quote leads us, is it possible that instead of a tree {palm}, we are looking for a person?  Is there a statue of a person named 'Long' at any of our possible sites?  I understand that technically, for this theory to work, the word long would be capitalized to show a name and would also be possessive as in:  Long's palm shadow... but it could still work.  Look for the statue of Long and use the shadow of his hand {palm}.  We would still have the problem of searching at a specific time of day allowing us the correct shadow placement.  That fact alone leads me to believe we are probably not working with a real 'shadow' in the first place but thought I would ramble on anyways.

that is great fox! haven't gotten to the list of names yet on those memorials.  i will look for anyone named edward,edwin, long, palm, and even shadow, lol. but i did find these two photos of the flagpole, they seem to be in different places to me, and if a flag had the flag of south carolina, it would be a "long" (as in tall) , palm (the palm tree on the flag), and a shadow hxxp://flickr.com/photos/hdescopeland/2 ... 7/sizes/o/ (i think that's a flagpole) hxxp://flickr.com/photos/16451098@N04/2 ... 783351779/ this one is between "two arms".....(guns or whatever ) hxxp://www.50states.com/flag/scflag.htm and after reading it like that.........long palm shadow...............lol, long john silver (the pirate in treasure island!) another thought with the flag........you always "stand" up

here's one list, and the only named that stood out to me was "joseph", because in the guide "the boogie man" mentions "rainbow wearer".........lol, which made me think of joseph and his coat of many colors... hxxp://flickr.com/photos/16451098@N04/2 ... 783351779/ the other side of it: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/16451098@N04/2 ... 783351779/ amberjack memorial: hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... 41b1cdb17a alphabetically? how about this for "or on the eighth a scene": hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=e9rdhT ... &ct=result

Unknown: but i'm going to concentrate on looking for the "edwin and edwina named after him" part.  maybe on one of the crew lists on the memorials, maybe there is someone named AFTER edward, or edwina. the only thing so far with edward, is knowing that stede bonnet joined blackbeard (edward teach), which still makes me think of " the long arm of the law, which could go with "below the bar that binds" and "beside the "long palm's shadow slappy, I feel compelled to once again post this image -- which is found in the exact same book as the Sarmiento quote in V2 -- that tells us precisely who Edwin and Edwina are named for. If it were just a matter of finding people after whom Edwin and Edwina could have been named, there are probably many possibilities. But the fact that this was found in the same book makes the probability that the other theories are correct vanishingly small . Call me closed-minded, but for me the answer to the question "who are Edwin and Edwina named for?" has been definitely answered -- it's Edward Wilmot Blyden. Now, what to do with that information is anyone's guess.

but forest, it has that "or" .........either this "or" that, it did the same for the 2 sentences b4 that...... freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 (on the capstan) edwin and edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene............ by the way that capstan has lots of 8's on it and capstans used bars OR levers, lol and in this pic of cthree's there is a palm tree on the left of the capstan hxxp://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516haIyQD : hxxp://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516MmSeYp i am trying to find stuff on blyden here.....so far no luck

The "or"s don't matter for what I'm claiming. Regardless of what is written in the rest of the verse, I claim that the Edwin/Edwina reference *must* be a reference to Blyden; the odds that it is a reference to anything else are extremely tiny, given that the same book has indisputably been used for a quote in another verse. The "or"s would not alter that at all. See, what I had hoped we could find was something like this: ...but alas, this one is in Africa.

That would make it too easy FB. What streets are around the park in question?  Is there a Wilmont Ave or a Blyden Blvd?  Is the park in the Wilmont neighborhood? It just seems to me that the reference in the V to the twins is surrounded by other descriptors of the area.  Logic tells us that EWB is somewhere/somehow nearby.

hmmm twins........wonder if there were twin pirates, lol remember i mentioned the "rainbow wearer" from the guide........rainbow row is right by the gardens: hxxp://travel.yahoo.com/trip-journal-81 ... n_savannah "At the tip of the peninsula, we strolled along the park-like " Battery at the Harbor” There is a good view of Fort Sumter and RAINBOW ROW "

Quote but i'm going to concentrate on looking for the "edwin and edwina named after him" part.  maybe on one of the crew lists on the memorials, maybe there is someone named AFTER edward, or edwina. the only thing so far with edward, is knowing that stede bonnet joined blackbeard (edward teach), which still makes me think of " the long arm of the law, which could go with "below the bar that binds" and "beside the "long palm's shadow slappy, I feel compelled to once again post this image -- which is found in the exact same book as the Sarmiento quote in V2 -- that tells us precisely who Edwin and Edwina are named for. If it were just a matter of finding people after whom Edwin and Edwina could have been named, there are probably many possibilities. But the fact that this was found in the same book makes the probability that the other theories are correct vanishingly small. ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- i found another Edwin and Edwina ( booth ) bad thing it would take v-6 to new york and not south carolina, wont have much time to look for any more conects, to v-6 at or around Gramercy Park for a few days -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- hxxp://mariadering.com/pdf/TheTwilightOfEdwinBooth.pdf The first statue erected to an actor in the world's metropolis was unveiled in Gramercy Park.It was America's manner of knighting Edwin Booth.. . . His daughter, Edwina Booth Grossmann,sat on a rustic seat at his feet. His grandson, Edwin Booth Grossmann, lifted his son, the actor's infant great grandson, in his arms, to look at the smiling bronze. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- but then on the other hand i found a Nautical reference, here for battery park south carolina, maybe could work for bat park ny too who knows i think i read  bat park s.c. has an anchor ,relates to palm's hxxp://dictionary.reference.com/browse/palm 9. Nautical a. the blade of an oar. b. the inner face of an anchor fluke. c. (loosely) an anchor fluke.

Unknown: Nothing terribly important to share but I just came up with another odd idea after reading the part of your post I quoted above.  Where ever this quote leads us, is it possible that instead of a tree {palm}, we are looking for a person? Maybe not a person, but maybe something else: (scroll down a bit to see what) hxxp://www.texascrawdads.com/calendar

cw, ck was all into that research with the anchor, but now i can't remember if that was for image 3.......but then i remember looking in charleston for an anchor before that quote from the book about "edwin and edwina" must be to show this is for charleston and blyden, so verse 6 for sure goes with charleston, but i guess we could have the wrong image, lol.............but this is a puzzle so .......that "or" sure makes it a puzzle, lol with the colon in verse 6, just seems there's some kind of word puzzle, code, there somewhere breaking it down into the simplest, if the field guide has anything to it, we have the GARDENgoyle, and the BOOGIE man..............garden and dances, or music that would seem to be the bandstand, and it has bars on it, and i believe the flagpole for "stand" is close to it, and "simms" is close to it for the "harken to the words", and maybe even the water fountain is close to it, i just don't know. i am trying to find out if blyden gave any speeches there i know i get sidetracked easily, but fox's saying "twins", got me to thinking of pairs, pears, and there is that pear in the image, and i know we think that's for the bridge, but what if it has  a "double" (lol) meaning in the picture my computer is acting up, so gotta save a bunch of stuff today, (don't want to lose my pictures, like what happened to ck, i'd be sick)

in those pictures of the flag : hxxp://flickr.com/photos/16451098@N04/2 ... 783351779/ hxxp://flickr.com/photos/hdescopeland/2 ... 7/sizes/o/ they are right by a path that crosses...........the lady arms crossed, legs crossed and between two "arms" and close to the bandstand.........white house close at hand is that two flagpoles in the path?  that could be our "pair", lol blyden mentioned a flag here: hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=DuXbWX ... t#PPA64,M1 he pushed "liberia (meaning liberty) liberty, what we think of when we see the flag ............freedom from......... from the "boogie man"....."some soul from the soulful".......blyden wrote: „Every race has a soul, and the soul of that race finds expression in its institutions, and to kill those institutions is to kill the soul.  . . .  No people can profit or be helped under institutions which are not the outcome of their own character.” i keep coming across w.e.b. dubois  and keep seeing that WEB at the end of the verse...makes me think of the SELOY clue....and he wrote The Souls of Black Folk the confederate flag was called "the stars and bars"  ........"bar that binds" we've got the judicial mask, the hanging rope..........the hangings, and one of the symbols for justice is the flag and gavel in the "gardengoyle  it mentions the gypsy moth.......the lady in the image "seeking shelter"..........white house close at hand.......the bandstand boogie man...........music, bandstand "still getting down, when you're just getting up".............. flag? stars?

forest_blight, do you know who named their twins edwin and edwina after blyden?

Forgive me if I am mistatken but I believe Blyden named his twins Edwin & Edwina...

The book is not specific about precisely who named their children after Blyden, but it was definitely not Blyden himself. A pair of twins born in Charleston during one of his visits were named in his honor. Perhaps the only important detail from this whole Blyden issue is that it occurred in Charleston, thus further nailing the city. If so, it doesn't help us much (except to link the V and P) because we already knew about Charleston.

to me, since the lion is so prominent in the picture, that has to be king street, and the mask could be for city hall (judicial) or for the hangings at white point gardens. don't you think the lady ends at white point gardens? like you go past city hall (if the mask is for city hall)? couldn't the mask just be the skull and crossbones for pirates?.... why do they call it "gardens" instead of garden?  (there's our pair/pear, lol) don't know why i never thought of this flag on this statue, it's the one with the "palm" tree and moon and his "palm", i think. hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... DSCN2288(2 ).JPG "The brave deeds of our local heroes are memorialized here as well. During the time of the American Revolution, South Carolina troops repelled the Royal Navy in an attack on Fort Moultrie. During the battle, a shot brought down the indigo-blue flag of the newly created state. Sgt. William Jasper grabbed a gun sponger, attached the flag to it and braved heavy fire to mount it in the face of the enemy. A monument stands in his honor today in White Point Gardens." also, i believe it says on the monument "don't let us fight without a flag " this picture shows bandstand, simms and jasper all in a row: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/bobindrums/1553750213/ not sure where the fountain is for "hear" "stand" could also just be for band"stand" okay, i guess researching the fairies didn't get us any closer, i'm right back where cthree started years ago.......but i do believe she found the right place, just a matter of someone finding the exact spot. maybe it's on the side of the jasper monument facing the water fountain.. washington park and marion square park both close to king street and washington park has going for it that it's named after a president, but....because of the "gardengoyle" from the guide, i like white point gardens, and white point gardens was designed by olmsted.

forest_blight wrote:: The book is not specific about precisely who named their children after Blyden, but it was definitely not Blyden himself. A pair of twins born in Charleston during one of his visits were named in his honor. Perhaps the only important detail from this whole Blyden issue is that it occurred in Charleston, thus further nailing the city. If so, it doesn't help us much (except to link the V and P) because we already knew about Charleston. Let us not also forget Edwin HARLESTON (like Charleston without the C) who was a famous African American painter living at the time, who adopted his neice and RE-named her Edwina (after himself). So you could have "Edwin, and Edwina named after him." There is plenty of information on Harleston on line. Some of his paintings are located in the Old Slave Mart, in Charleston--which could be a likely locaiton for a casque burial. hxxp://www.artfact.com/auction-lot/edwin-a.-harleston-1882-1931-servant-and-child-6-c-l78sdsn2ci

may have found the lion [ lion theme ] Once the rods were in place, they could be slowly turned until the house was once again level. The washers at the ends of the rods can be seen on the outside of the homes. I noticed that several of the washers had been covered with decorative metal lions’ heads. There is a definite lion theme in this area. It can be seen in statues placed at front doors of homes, lion decorations placed on top of and around buildings, and lion faces forged into the iron gates. not sure if this would affect the casque ( Hurricane Hugo in 1989 ) the above from here hxxp://www.charlestonlowcountry.com/abo ... gtour.html cool clear water hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/ful ... 6643CjrMtz sky view of battery 1980 hxxp://www.sciway.net/photos/coast-sc/b ... erial.html white house close at hand.... governors house inn hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Edwar ... Charleston ).jpg map to house bottom of pg hxxp://www.twomeetingstreet.com/directions.htm did not know this was in park, must be other stuff there as yet unkown too, though this has nothing to do with verse hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM9J1

cw, that obelisk site, had the word "embedded" in the description. and it could be our "shock of corn" something about it reminds me of the "h" in the mask in the image. and "washington, dc" might be one of the markers at the bottom...........for "white house" didn't i read where someone saw an arrow in this image? hmm, in "the boogie man", twice it talks about the "sun" (for sundial) "you hear him in the moonlight but lose him in the dawn" , ( moonlight would still cast a shadow), and "the boogie man's still getting down when you're just getting up"   ( which i thought was part of the flag stuff) i would find washington, dc  here and dig, lol (maybe it's around 8 o'clock) hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... c41f4a45c2 also, there's a part in "the boogie man" that mentions "ali" , the boxer..and he had that well know poem about "float like a butterfly, sting like a bee". in the book it says: "He made you want to blow like Bird, or shuffle like Ali.  Invisible and Beautiful.  Unsuppressible and Free!" and here is forest_blights pic: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/28 ... 3633yBLHBj the "wasp" and a "scene" so........maybe the guide does help? by giving obscure hints, don't you think?

slappy some things i see in img don't know why i never thought of this flag on this statue, it's the one with the "palm" tree and moon and his "palm", i think. hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... DSCN2288(2 ).JPG if you click img to enlarge, and look in the lower right hand corner, to the left of the 3rd post, counting from l-r, is that a donkey this picture shows bandstand, simms and jasper all in a row: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/bobindrums/1553750213/ not sure where the fountain is for "hear" the fountain is to the right of the base of the statue in the background behind the big tree, near parking lot large pic hxxp://flickr.com/photos/bobindrums/1553750213/sizes/o/ i think there is more writing too, on the plaques that are on each side under the feet ,wonder what they say

cw, i have no idea what that is, lol it kindof looked like an elephant to me. there are more words on that jasper statue, but i don't think it's important anymore.  this site tells some of it, scroll down a little: hxxp://ytinamuh.blogspot.com/2007/04/wh ... ttery.html i'd seen pictures of that obelisk, I even took pics of that obelisk when i went there.  but it wasn't until you posted that site, and i read the states were  "EMBEDDED"  in the description, that i thought, that's the place. "EMBEDDED" is at the end of the verse, "beside the long palm's shadow", shadow for the "sundial," long palm for "charleston's "'s   flag, or and especially if washington, dc is close to the south carolina one. doesn't everything fit? cthree's pic with the arrow and charleston: hxxp://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516GzDSPp well, florida's flag has a palm on it too.....so check there too, lol if white house isn't for washington, dc, maybe it's just saying on the side facing the gazebo, or if there is a white house close by.  that would all depend on where the south carolina or florida brick was positioned, i think.

Hello, I’m another lurker that has been visiting this forum and not posting. Up until now The Secret is has been a secret between myself and my partner Laura. We began working on the hunt around three years ago when she was diagnosed with cancer. It was something we did together. We choose Image 2 for special attention because I’m from Charleston and that was were we met. We’ve made a lot of progress and had planned another recon trip in May to look at the location I’m going to propose, but her health declined and we couldn’t go. In a few days Laura will be gone and after I take care of what I have to here, I want to go home for a while. I’m posting this now because looking for this casque has become as much about her as finding a treasure or solving a puzzle. I want to continue in her honor just as many of you have been working this hunt in honor of Byron Preiss but I’m afraid I’ll lose heart if I try it alone. So enough of the sad stuff, I intend to go to Charleston soon and if there’s anyone who wants to hunt with me, just let me know. Here is my proposed solution. It isn’t complete but I think it’s getting there. I am referencing Image 2 and Verse 6. I will post the specifically image analysis here and the verse analysis separately. THE IMAGE ANALYSIS Longitude and Latitude Lion’s main numbers: 33, 79 (upside down), 80, and 36. Charleston, SC (32.77°N 80.01°W) Pine Branch There is a loop in the pine branch in the middle left of the image. To me this enclosed shape looks like an outline of South Carolina. Stylized, but still South Carolina. I think enough of these state shapes are showing up that they may be as consistent as the longitude and latitudes but my focus has been on this single image so I have not developed this theory further. Pines are common in South Carolina but I feel this is mostly here to make the state shape. The pear being joined to a pine branch is interesting but I’ll write about it a little later. Lion Lions are a common decorative theme in Charleston. Door knockers, earthquake bolts, decorative medallions, fountains, statues, etc. I think the dark patches on the right of the lion’s forehead may reflect it’s origin as one of these architectural elements. Or it may be intended to blend the lion stylistically with the mask next to it. I think this image is meant to establish an African theme. The final location must have a strong African connection. I think this idea of site theme may have been a little under estimated. The Chicago treasure (Scots-Irish theme) was found in a park that borders the river dyed green each year for the St. Patrick’s Day parade. That is the largest St Patrick’s celebration in the country. The Cleveland treasure (Hellas) was found in gardens themed for Greece and Rome. Cleveland was the center of Greek immigration into Ohio. City and park share the origin theme in both cases. Charleston’s history with African Americans is long, varied and frequently regrettable. Charleston and New York were the largest slave holding cities in the colonies. One of the largest slave revolts in the early 1800’s happens in Charleston, The Confederate States secede from the Nation in Charleston and the Civil War begins in Charleston. African American’s found some of the their oldest and most influential churches in Charleston. These churches play a large part in the Liberian Exodus that starts in Charleston with the sailing of the Azor. And some of the most important court rulings on Civil Rights have a start in Charleston. African is the theme, Charleston is the city, now for the park. Larger Mask The larger mask in the image is indeed a Fang Ngil. I believe the reference for this mask is from the Louvre’s collection. This is important because almost all the elements on the mask (except the map) are from the original mask. See the image at: hxxp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Fang_mask_Louvre_MH65-104-1.jpg The mask has also been used recently on the cover of “Spirits Speak: A Celebration of African Masks”. The lighting in this cover is very evocative of the lighting in image 2: hxxp://www.amazon.com/Spirits-Speak-Celebration-African-Masks/dp/3791332287 While the mask’s origin and use may have meaning for us I think it is more important that it does not originate from Charleston. I think that means the idea of masks comes from the city but not the literal and actual mask. I’ll say more on this later. What is very important is the map on the mask’s forehead. This, to me, is obviously Charleston, but it may also be a clue to the park. Washington Square Park was previously (and still) called City Hall Park. The park is small, walled and nestled against the back of Charleston’s City Hall (south), Meeting Street (west), Chalmers St. (north) and private homes (east). A building in the NW corner houses the South Carolina Historical Society and the park contains many monuments and memorials. Smaller Mask The shape of the smaller mask is the same as Fort Sumter from above. hxxp://www.ccpl.org/content.asp?action=detail&catID=5764&id=14764&parentID=5748 Fort Sumter lies in Charleston harbor and is where the Civil War began. I feel the stripes and star of the mask reinforce the military or national theme of the object. The clock hands are a representation of 4:00 = 4th month = April . But 4:00 also connects nicely to the date and time of the firing on the fort by rebel troops (4:30am, April 12, 1861). hxxp://www.ccpl.org/content.asp?id=14761&action=detail&catID=5764&parentID=5748 African Americans celebrated this event after the war: “On March 29 (1865), one of the largest parades ever held in Charleston began at noon. Four thousand blacks participated…They were followed, most dramatically, by two carts, one carrying an auction block with an ‘auctioneer’ auctioning two black women and their children. The other carried a coffin with the signs ‘Slavery is dead’ and ‘Sumter dug his grave on 13th of April, 1861.’” pg. 122, “A short history of Charleston” by Robert N. Rosen. In Washington Square Park there is a Fort Sumter Centennial time capsule and a monument to General Beauregard. Beauregard was the Confederate general in charge of the assault on Fort Sumter. I’m beginning to wonder if all images with clocks don’t have a date or event that relates to the casque location. That would make the use of a clock not only convenient but also purposeful. Moth The moth woman repeats the overall theme of fairies, Africa and perhaps slavery and freedom. The wings resemble an emperor moth but the inner, brown scales of the wings look very much like cobblestones. Chalmers Street is the longest remaining cobblestone street and runs along Washington Square Park. The street was originally called Mulatto Alley and was a street of ill repute, housing several bordellos as well as the sailors’ tavern (The Pink House) which is also the oldest surviving building in Charleston. Chalmers Street is also the location of the first home to be owned by a freed black in Charleston. 38 Chalmers, built c. 1844 for Jane Wightman. The house faces the north gate to Washington Square Park and the wrought iron of it’s gate has spiky Chevaux-de-Frise iron at it’s top and a looping butterfly like decoration at the bottom. (See: Charleston Chew, hxxp://minnastravels.blogspot.com/2008_07_01_archive.html ) I think someone previously mentioned Chevaux-de-Frise ironwork as resembling the fairy’s hair, and I agree. Around the time Preiss buried the casques, 38 Chalmers was owned by Laura Bragg an important figure in the Charleston Renaissance of the 1920’s. She was director of the Charleston Museum where she attempted to extend education and access to African Americans. She was also the founder of the Free Library and the Poetry Society of South Carolina. Bragg’s efforts to stop the destruction of historic buildings by the Standard Oil company led directly to the formation of the BAR (Board of Architectural Review). Laura Bragg was the center of an artistic and social group on Chalmers street. One of her close associates was Ned Jennings. He was known for the creation of fantastical masks and a large butterfly and moth collection that he kept at his studio at 23 Chalmers. Sites on Chalmers Street: 6 Chalmers — Old Slave Mart Museum 17 Chalmers — The Pink House (Sailors’ Tavern) 23 Chalmers — Confederate Home & College, Jennings studio 38 Chalmers — (faces park) the first home to be owned by a Freed Black in Charleston and home of Laura Bragg Pear The pear. I hate this pear. We have had several theories about this pear over the years but none feel completely satisfactory. Bradford pear trees are common flowering trees in Charleston. Or it could be a reference to two women on Chalmers Street, but I don’t feel sufficiently confident to go too far on this yet. Daisy and Diamond Reference the month of April Other There are a few other marks, shadows, etc that may be important but I want to leave them until I have been able to do another recon of the city and park. I haven’t been in Washington Square Park in a very, very long time and need to see the site again before I add any more. The rest I will post under the Verse 6. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2437.0 Again, if anyone has any ideas we are both anxious to hear what you think. Anyone interested in hunting with me, just let me know.

jstarr, you're hooked so hopefully that will keep you coming back to The Secret, and I hope it will help you get through the bad times ahead. it's so good that you know the area, that is a big big plus. every theory is possible until the casque is found. what i liked about the downtown area was the "four corners of the law", or something like that. and that mask you mentioned, which someone said (cthree, i think, somewhere in this thread) , stands for "justice", and everything is right there around that park. there are pictures posted of that park, i even took some of that park when i went  to charleston.  it's small and there is no way you could dig during the day because people are all around. the pear that you are puzzled about, fit's perfectly for charleston, as there was a pearman bridge (now Ravenel Bridge), there (it's been awhile since i read all the posts) when you go, please take lots of pictures and posts them for us, maybe you can convince us , or even better.........find the dang thing, lol that was a good picture of that wrought iron, it really looks liek the butterfly lady's hair, but i think someone had posted that b4 too.......not sure, i know there were a lot of wrought iron gate pictures for charleston.

Cormac wrote:: Welcome jstarr, Thank you for sharing your story and your findings. Disregarding the text at the top of the included pictures (since it doesn't match the V you selected), see if you agree with these two images matching the shadows on the lion's forehead and the mask. Also, regarding the Moth wings, the cobblestone pattern you mention could also be compared to local sea turtles. The circles remind me of turtles laying their eggs in the sand. When will you be going back there?

Unknown: ... someone said (cthree, i think, somewhere in this thread) , [the mask] stands for "justice" ... Unknown: ... the pear that you are puzzled about, fit's perfectly for charleston, as there was a pearman bridge (now Ravenel Bridge), there (it's been awhile since i read all the posts)... Unknown: ... when you go, please take lots of pictures and posts ... Unknown: regarding the Moth wings, the cobblestone pattern you mention could also be compared to local sea turtles. Thank you Slappybuns and Cormac I'm really not sure when I will be going home to Charleston but it probably wont be long. Probably in a month or two. When we lost Laura's father a few years ago there was this incredibly hectic week right after, a week or two of settling affairs and then too much time to think. That's the time I expect to go home for a while. Laura's also anxious to go look or at least have me look for us. Every time she's awake she asks me if any one has commented on our solution. We've been game players and puzzle workers for a long time and she's not about to change now. Slappybuns Yes, " ... [Fang Ngil] masks were worn by members of a male society of the same name during the initiation of new members and the persecution of wrong-doers...". I'm not convinced the purpose of the mask isn't lucky coincidence. But the more I work this, the more convinced I am that Preiss did a huge amount of research and might have known. The pear. I hate the pear. I know a lot of people are connecting the pear to the bridge but I just don't think so. Even when we were working a solution for Fort Moultrie and Sullivans Island I had my doubts about the pear representing the bridge. The bridges were not really that unique among southern cities of a certain age, and locals always referred to the bridges as "the Cooper River Bridges", not by their dedication names. True, Preiss might have still used the Pearman reference but I just don't think so. The bridge was not actually close to any of the park locations, including Fort Moultrie, which is the only route it might have been on. But I think Verse 6 has a stronger linkage to Charleston than Verse 5. Verse 5 might have led to Fort Moultrie but Verse 6 does not, so I don't see him referencing the bridge. We also worked a solution with Verse 5 that might have lead to Hampton Park. This solution was weak and that route wouldn't have referenced the bridge. Our third solution used the pear as part of a rebus. This was very promising. It used Verse 6 and led to an important African location in the city but not a park and not a place that should be dug in. Chalmers Street and Washington Square Park is actually our fifth solution and the best so far. I'm still mulling over a few meanings for the pear but I'm not convinced enough of any of them to post yet. Absolutely. It's been very tempting to send my mom or one of our old friends to snap a few, but really I'm anxious to go myself and the pictures just aren't a substitute. Cormac I'm not sure the central outline shape on the larger mask represents anything beyond the original mask's decoration. But if it does, I think it looks a bit like the Washington Light Infantry Obelisk in the center of Washington Square Park. Ummm? The College of Charleston (might be University now) are the Cougars. The Gamecocks are at The University of South Carolina in Columbia. Clearly you've been missing the best college football in the country. That's SEC football. GO Gators! Yes, could be. But I was looking at the common visual elements and language of Palencar's drawings when I noticed that the shapes looked like parts of other images that were intended to be stone. Image 1 = the top of the hill left of the face Image 3 = the floor Image 4 = the arch way sides Image 6 = the hill Image 8 = the ground Because so many lines of Verse 6 seem to lead me to Chalmers and because other elements of the image relate to the street as well, I'm more inclined to read the shapes as stone. Now if you really want to twist your mind, research Stono Ferry. Big, important African event there, and could be a rebus for the place, but probably not. We've been trying to only accept theories with multiple references from the the image and verse. And I just don't think Fort Moultrie is the place. Not with Verse 6.

Hello again. For the past four days I have been in Charleston and I believe I have located the treasure’s location. Unfortunately I have just received a call back for the City of Charleston Parks Department saying they will not allow digging in the city’s parks. Barring any change, I will be leaving this hunt behind. I will post here my complete solution with my proposed digging site. I will put a link to here under Verse 6. Please, do not dig at this site without permission. All of Charleston is an archeological site and if that isn’t reason enough, there are cameras in the park right by where you would be digging. Some of this is a reposting from my original post, some of it is revised and some is new. I am doing this to create a complete, one-stop solution. Also, in trying to explain some of this to non-hunters I have realized you need a little more background to really understand this stuff if your new. Here goes. WHAT’S THE THEME AND TRIBE? In the image we have a lion, African looking masks and a winged fairy that appears to be a fair skinned African American. Referencing page 21, we find, “Africa’s Diamond, earth-born star, Bright harvest of the midnight rock.” Also, pages 16 and 17 refer to the African fairy tribes as flying and “like a windfall of butterflies”. This establishes our theme for Image 2 as African. The final location must have a strong African connection. I think this idea of site theme may have been a little under estimated. The Chicago treasure (Scots-Irish theme) was found in a park that borders the river dyed green each year for the St. Patrick’s Day parade. That is the largest St Patrick’s celebration in the country. The Cleveland treasure (Hellas) was found in gardens themed for Greece and Rome. Cleveland was the center of Greek immigration into Ohio. City and park share the origin theme in both cases. WHY CHARLESTON? Charleston’s history with African Americans is long, varied and frequently regrettable. Charleston and New York were the largest slave holding cities in the colonies. One of the largest slave revolts in the early 1800’s happens in Charleston, The Confederate States secede from the Nation in Charleston and the Civil War begins in Charleston. African American’s found some of the their oldest and most influential churches in Charleston. These churches play a large part in the Liberian Exodus that starts in Charleston with the sailing of the Azor. And some of the most important court rulings on Civil Rights have a start in Charleston. There are four clues within the image that lead me to Charleston, SC. Pine Branch There is a loop in the pine branch in the middle left of the image. To me this enclosed shape looks like an outline of South Carolina. Stylized, but still South Carolina. Daisy/Palmetto The petals of the daisy in the images lower left seem to have been arranged to look like the Palmetto in South Carolina’s state flag. Map in Large Mask I thnk this speaks for itself. Longitude and Latitude Lion’s main numbers: 33, 79 (upside down), 80, and 36. Charleston, SC (32.77°N 80.01°W) WHICH CHARLESTON PARK? There are a few clues in the image to the location of the park. The first may be the inclusion of a map of the city. Washington Square Park was previously (and still) called City Hall Park. The park is small, walled and nestled against the back of Charleston’s City Hall (south), Meeting Street (west), Chalmers St. (north) and private homes (east). A building in the NW corner houses the South Carolina Historical Society and the park contains many monuments and memorials. This may be the first clue but there are others. The Fairy, Cobblestones and Ironwork The moth/fairy woman repeats the overall theme of fairies, Africa and perhaps slavery and freedom. The wings resemble an emperor moth but the inner, brown scales of the wings look very much like cobblestones. Chalmers Street is the longest remaining cobblestone street and runs along Washington Square Park. The scrolling, spirals in the wings also resemble the decoration above the gates to the park itself. Chalmers Street is also the location of the first home to be owned by a freed black in Charleston. That is 38 Chalmers, built c. 1844 for Jane Wightman. The house faces the north gate to Washington Square Park and the wrought iron of it’s gate has spiky Chevaux-de-Frise iron at it’s top and a looping butterfly like decoration at the bottom. I think someone previously mentioned Chevaux-de-Frise ironwork as resembling the fairy’s hair, and I agree. At the time the treasures were buried Laura Bragg owned and lived at 38 Chalmers. She was at the center of an artistic and social group on Chalmers street during the Charleston Renaissance in the 1020’s and 30’s. One of her close associates was Ned Jennings. He was known for the creation of fantastical masks and a large butterfly and moth collection that he kept at his studio at 23 Chalmers. Important sites on Chalmers Street: 6 Chalmer s — Old Slave Mart Museum 17 Chalmers — The Pink House (Sailors’ Tavern) 23 Chalmers — Confederate Home & College, Ned Jennings studio 38 Chalmers — First home owned by a Freed Black in Charleston At the center of Washington Square Park there is an obelisk dedicated to the Washington Light Infantry and particularly to its service in the Civil War. On the obelisk there are several plaques that may have supplied inspiration for the fairy. A plaque identical to the one featuring the state seal is also found in White Point Gardens (the Battery to locals) and the winged trumpeter also appears on the City Hall. REFRENCING THE VERSE To choose a park conclusively I believe it is necessary to pair the Image with a verse so please excuse the cross post. I have chosen Verse 6. I believe the verse leads us from a starting point to the park where the treasure is hidden. Before beginning to work with the verse I think it is important to rearrange it a bit so that it is assembled into rhyming sets, giving us… Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes / Cruel and bold Seen here / By eyes of old Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water / Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century / Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him / Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds / Beside the long palm's shadow / Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration / White house close at hand. The Sets and Progression to the Park Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes / Cruel and bold Seen here / By eyes of old As has been pointed out before the first four lines seem to be paraphrased from Robert Louis Stevenson’s Dedication to “Treasure Island”. Robert Louis Stevenson relied heavily on a description of Blackbeard for the creation of Long John Silver in Treasure Island. In May 1718, Blackbeard's pirate fleets appeared at Charleston, South Carolina. They plundered vessels, took important citizens prisoner and extorted medical supplies from the city before leaving. hxxp://www.charlestonpirates.com/edward_teach.html Thus these lines serve to point us toward pirates. It may also point to the oldest sections of the city and the specific location of the Pink House (Sailors Tavern) on Chalmers Street. In addition I finally found a pear. Directly across the street from the Pink House there is a pear tree. My mom recognized this as a local variety that people used to bring them in by the bag full. She said the pears were small, hard and really only good for making jelly not eating raw. I also found this information, that also seems to point to the Pink House. “…the Pink House was also the founding site for an unusual club called the Piping and Marching Society of Lower Chalmers Street . … It was begun by a group of World War II veterans for philosophical discussions and judicious beer drinking. Each month a member gave a serious paper on a subject outside his chosen professional field and during their 'Winter Rout', a prize was awarded for the best presentation. At this meeting and at their 'Summer Frolic', the group marched through the city accompanied by bagpipes. ” hxxp://pinkhousegallery.tripod.com/id13.html 122 East Bay, The Old Exchange and Provost Dungeon also has a strong pirate connection but no clear African theme as I will demonstrate for Chalmers street. White Point Gardens (the Battery) also has a pirate monument but little to no African historical connection beyond a monument to Confederates, which seems inappropriate. Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words: At the time the casques were buried, The Pink House was being used as a law office but it did have a rear walled courtyard with a fountain as well as a lion door knocker. Standing next to the wall and facing Chalmers Street, the Old Slave Mart Museum can be easily seen across the street to the left. The Pink House's fountain is not working at the moment but if you go there, visit their courtyard and you can clearly hear the neighboring gallery's fountain across the wall. This will give you an idea of what it would have been like. 6 Chalmers St, Old Slave Mart Museum --- This is the only remaining place in Charleston where slaves were sold. The auction of slaves at the Old Slave Mart ended in 1863. In the 1870s the shed was altered for use as a tenement for black families and later an auto repair shop. From 1938 to the 1980s the building housed a privately owned museum of African and African American arts and crafts. A new slavery museum has recently opened in the space but is unrelated to the first. hxxp://www.ccpl.org/content.asp?id=15669&action=detail&catID=6028&parentID=5747#8 Freedom at the birth of a century / Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him / Or on the eighth a scene These lines represent what you should be thinking about as you stand next to this old pirate tavern looking at a much later slave mart. Slavery, emancipation and segregation which are all African American issues that will ultimately lead us west down the street to Washington Square Park. Freedom at the birth of a century --- Paraphrase of lines from Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address. “Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation … that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom …” Or May 1913 --- 1913 was the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg (July 1-3) and the Emancipation Proclamation (celebrated on multiple dates). Both occasions were celebrated widely. However, soon after his inauguration and particularly in May, Woodrow Wilson’s begins pushing forward his policy of ”The New Freedom” and publishes “The New Freedom: A Call for The Emancipation of The Generous Energies of a People.” He sites Lincoln as model but Wilson sought freedom from trusts and monopolies. He did a great deal to institutionalize segregation into the federal government and was slow to recognize women’s suffrage as well. He sites Lincoln put the nation is well on its way to healing by pushing African Americans to the back of the bus. The two lines form a though about emancipation. It’s expectation and denial. Edwin and Edwina named after him --- Edward Wilmot Blyden. Blyden’s visit to Charleston in 1889 and the twins named for him is mentioned in “Abroad in America” but is also in other sources. I had another source that even mentioned where he stayed while in the city but I was working on a different theory at the time and have lost the reference. I think it may have been in a biography about Blyden but haven’t been able to get out of the house to track it down. I found Blyden early because I was focusing on major African American events in Charleston and he popped up. I have also noticed that there seems to have been a lot of writing done about him in the late 1970’s. A search of EBSCO Host shows a lot of scholarly work during this time. So Preiss referencing him would not have been obscure or dependant upon the single book. Or on the eighth a scene --- The best explanation I can find for this line is the affirmation of Richard Harvey Cain’s second election to the US House as representative for the State of South Carolina on May 8, 1878. Rev. Cain was pastor in to the historic Emanuel Church in Charleston in the late 1800’s. He also founded the South Carolina Leader newspaper in 1866 and was elected twice to the legislator during Reconstruction. Paring him with Blyden seems to form a thought about political power and independence. Or he was just convenient for the rhyme. Where law defended Between two arms extended Now we leave the Pink House and walk down Chalmers Street. Go to the corner of Chalmers and Meeting and turn left. The County Courthouse will now be in view. Go to the Corner of Meeting and Broad Streets. Washington Square Park is located next to the intersection of Broad and Meeting Streets. This intersection is known as the Four Corners of Law. Charleston City Hall, the Charleston County Court House, the Federal Post office and St. Michael’s Church make up the intersection. Where law defended --- In the late 1940’s and earl 50’s Judge Julius Waring handed down several decisions that greatly influenced voting rights and segregation in South Carolina and the nation from his Federal courtroom in the Court House. Most important was June 1951 Briggs v. Elliott. Judge Waring was part of a three-judge panel presented with substantial psychological evidence and expert testimony on African-American school conditions. The court denied the plaintiffs’ request to abolish school segregation. Instead, they ordered the school board to begin equalization of the schools. In a lone dissenting opinion, Judge Julius Waring adamantly opposed segregation in public education. Siting the intentions of the 14th Amendment and concluding, "Segregation is per se inequality" The appeal of this decision was combined with other such cases to become Brown v. Board of education. Waring’s decent became the foundation of the decision overturning Separate but equal in the US Supreme Court. We begin with happy bold pirates (Pink House) move to a place to consider African American issues (the Old Slave Mart) and end with the law defending their rights (County Court House). Much as the image seems to take us on a tour of Chalmers Street, the verse has lead us from one end to the other. Between two arms extended --- This line could have two meanings. 1. It could refer to arms extended in welcome = Meeting Street OR 2. Between the paths in Washington Park SEE NEXT POST FOR THE BIG FINISH

This is PART 2 of my solution for Image 2 referencing Verse 6 WHERE’S THE TREASURE BURIED? Below the bar that binds / Beside the long palm's shadow / Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration / White house close at hand. Turn left at the corner of Meeting and Broad Streets and walk east up Broad to the south gate of Washington Square Park. Enter the park walk to the edge of  the Washington Infantry Obelisk in the center of the park. Notice that the second step on this side is engraved with the words “Fort Sumter”. Move to where you can see the West and South steps at the same time. The second step on the west side is engraved “Seven Pines.” Now recall the smaller mask from Image 2 and the pine branch it hangs from. The shape of the smaller mask is the same as Fort Sumter from above. hxxp://www.ccpl.org/content.asp?action=detail&catID=5764&id=14764&parentID=5748 Fort Sumter lies in Charleston harbor and is where the Civil War began. I feel the stripes and star of the mask reinforce the military or national theme of the object. The clock hands are a representation of 4:00 = 4th month = April . But 4:00 also connects nicely to the date and time of the firing on the fort by rebel troops (4:30am, April 12, 1861). hxxp://www.ccpl.org/content.asp?id=14761&action=detail&catID=5764&parentID=5748 Turn around and walk on a diagonal line until you line up with the two palmetto trees to your left. You will be standing here. (This is my bubby Carl.) Below the bar that binds --- This is the one thing I’m still not 100% clear on. Could be a reference to earthquake bolts on the east side of city hall or it could be a reference to the BAR (Board of Architectural Review). Beside the long palm's shadow --- site is in line with palmetto trees that were definitely in place at the time of burial. The state flag also flies atop city hall. Embedded in the sand --- the soil here is sandy Waits the Fair remuneration --- the front plaque of the Washington Infantry obelisk is visible from here. “Fair renumeration” may be a reference to the plaque text “Fair Renown” White house close at hand --- site is at the corner of Charleston City Hall, which is white. I would also like to point out that this path is all left turns. That is, it is turning windershins, which was a traditional way of reaching fairy, or allowing fairy to reach you. I think the left hand courses have been mentioned before but I didn’t think anyone had pointed out why Preiss might have done it. So that’s my solution. Short of getting an archeologist out here with a ground radar, I don’t think there will be any digging. I do have a very slim hope in that direction but it wont be any time soon. So what do you think?

i really like your interpretation of "two arms extended"  as in a "greeting" or when people "meet" and hug or shake hands.  but that still could go with "meeting" street and white pointe gardens.  I see your cobblestones more as oysters, and white pointe gardens used to be called oyster point. seems our hunters are gonna have to be more like pirates.  you guys be careful out there. especially you cw, since i promised to bail you out, lol.

I think you've done a lot of great research, jstarr. But I'd urge you to not read too much into "pine" in the various places you've used it. That's definitely a cyprus (common in the area), not pine.

I so like the idea of a widdershins path, I thnk you are spot on with that. I think you nailed the palm tree on the flag/ flower connection the charleston map cannot be denied nor the ft Sumter map. All those things, makes me go Yep! Charleston! The top of the infantry obeliisk fits the outtline but so would just about any monument spire. Your description of the Chalmers house/pirate connection/blackbeard/bagpipers, leaves me scratching my head going huh? your lincoln gettysburg address paraphrase makes no sense to me at all. and your may 13 reason takes place in July... Law defended - sure makes sense arms extended = meeting st. maybe, - not the first thing that comes to my mind though. I think you nailled the city - you might even have the exact spot, but your reasoning to get there, seems a bit convoluted to me. When I read the chicago/and cleveland solutions, I was suprised at how actually obvious they were, and how it totally made sense. I just dont get that Aha from your solution But go dig it up and prove me wrong!  sometimes its easier to ask for forgiveness than permission!

Unknown: to not read too much into "pine" in the various places you've used it. That's definitely a cyprus (common in the area), not pine. Unknown: Your description of the Chalmers house/pirate connection/blackbeard/bagpipers, leaves me scratching my head going huh? Unknown: your lincoln gettysburg address paraphrase makes no sense to me at all. forest_blight For me the "Seven Pines" inscription when combined with the "Fort Sumter" inscription is a confirmer. Cypress is common in the swamps of North Charleston, Goose Creek and surrounds but it is not a tree you find in the pennisula ciry. In fact, of the four parks I seriously considered inside the city, only Hampton has any evergreens of any kind in it. Park trees in Charleston tend to be oak, with mixes of flowering trees. maltedfalcon Okay, a writer I'm not. What I'm trying to explain is that when I look at Verse 6, I see a beginning that references pirates and a few lines later it seems to be about slavery. So I looked for a place in Charleston that had both kinds of sites in close proximity. The Pink House (or Sailors' Tavern) and the Old Slave Mart are right across the street from each other and Washington Square Park is on the same street with both. To me it was like referencing the the Art Institute in Chicago. I also wanted to point out that the Pink House still fits the first three lines, even without knowing about the Treasure Island paraphrasing. Because those three lines are also a pretty good description of what the Marching and Piping Society did in that building. In the Gettyburg address Lincoln is talking about the nation being born, a "New Freedom". I felt the verse was comparing this hopeful sentiment with Woodrow Wilson's "New Freedom", which sites Lincoln but is really something very different. Especially if you weren't white. And yes, the Gettysbury anniversary was celebrated in July. The Emancipation Proclaimation was celebrated on several different dates that year. I mentioned them to highlight the general importance of that year. I left out the Women's March on Washington the point is the same. In 1913 a lot of people were asking for freedom and Wilson shoved their concerns aside. Neither idea moves you closer to any Charleston park, which I think he knew, because he's telling you to stand and think. Then four or five lines later he tells you about a new place. (Where law defended)

Oh I wanted to say the bar that binds if that is the horizontal stripe about head high on the wall, and if it has large bolts/nuts/washers embeded into the building. I would say that is a perfect fit.

I think it was bclews who noticed this (can't find the relevant post), but I believe that the fairy's wings resemble the cannons and cannonballs in White Point Gardens.  Here's a picture to help illustrate:

Jambone, I really like that cannon similarity! AP

to me cw, it all flows very nicely.  only problem is...if the park won't let you dig to unearth the treasure, would they have allowed BP to bury it there?  I know, it has been said that he sometimes snuck into sites to bury but I don't forsee him sneaking into a site to bury a casque only for it to be never legally retrieved.  Sounds to me like we need to find an adventurous person with a liking to treasure hunting who works in the parks service to spin them our tale. over all, well laid out cw.

Two things: First, the Edwin/Edwina connections: I think this is too weak. I do however think that the connection between Edwin HARLESTON (the painter) and his adopted daughter EDWINA (they changed her name to name her after Edwin ) is stronger. Either way, the connection between an African-American historical figure and Charleston is very strong--and frankly, I do not think it much matters which one you like better. It places the casque in Charleston, and that's what really matters. The other thing is this line: Below the bar that binds / Beside the long palm's shadow / Embedded in the sand I previously posted a diagram of an anchor--the two "arrow-head" shaped pieces on an anchor are called "palms". One is normally longer than the other. The "long palm's shadow" could mean in the shadow of that particular side of an anchor...also, an anchor is likely to be "embedded in the sand" somewhere. I think you might want to check to see if there is one nearby. The "bar that binds" to me was always in reference to the earthquake bolts found in many buildings in Charleston--it is certainly a bar that binds--and many times the bolt heads (visible on the outsides of the houses) have lion's heads as decorations. Just my two cents worth.

Unknown: only problem is...if the park won't let you dig to unearth the treasure, would they have allowed BP to bury it there? I know some of you really like the battery (white Point gardens) but remember, for most of its history it was a very unfriendly place to African Americans. Edwin Blyden would not have gone there and Edwin Harleston would probably have not been allowed. If the theme matters at all, this is not the place. I would consider either Marion Square or Hampton Park before the battery. I would consider Avery Institute, the AME church, or Jenkins Orphanage before the battery. I don't think we're going to find a piece of statuary or building in the picture that exactly identifies the spot, either. Yes, the Chicago solution had a marker very close by (the fence) and so did the Cleveland solution (wall). But Grant Park in Chicago is 319 acres. That's a half square mile for the park alone. The Cultural Gardens contains around 30 different gardens. All of Charleston is only around 134.2 sq mi and it is no were as densely populated as Chicago or Cleveland. I think we were given clearler clues in those images because we needed them. The Cleveland treasure still wasn't found without the internet and a considerable amount of cooperation between hunters. But that said, don't those fairy wings look a lot like the park gates? fox I have worried about this a lot. Especially since the Cleveland treasure was in a private garden, inside a planter. To me this comes uncomfortably close to a flower bed. But in 1981, Washington Square Park was used differently than it is today and the attitude of city officials has changed a great deal. Today, walking tour groups meet-up constantly in the park, the city hall has just had its first renovation since the 1800's and there are lights in the park at night. None of this was true at the time the treasures were buried. Charleston used to take a certain pride in its shabbiness, and at that time I don't think I would have even worried about asking permission to dig. If I had wanted to do it without permission, sneaking in at night would have been easy. I have come to believe that everything BP did was without permission or even inquiry, because asking would have given away locations. He seems to have guarded everything very closely. At the time you could get away with this. Maybe even be admired for it, but we have all changed. The seventies were a long time ago.

Just looking around Charleston for any statues that may look like the butterfly-lady.  Here is one I found.  It is Persephone...which is located in the courtyard of the Gibbes Museum on the Gateway Walking Tour.  Notice the similarity of the torso and the rounded belly. It may just mean that BP went on the Walking Tour on his way to Washington Square Park... AP

might just be me but for a bronze that would have been standing outside in the elements/ not to mention a fountain for 30 some years that statue looks awful new to me....

Malted, I guess they clean their artwork regularly... According to this site, the statue and fountain date from 1972. AP hxxp://www.moon.com/destinations/charle ... museum-art

What a find !

animal painter wrote:: Malted, I guess they clean their artwork regularly... According to this site, the statue and fountain date from 1972. AP hxxp://www.moon.com/destinations/charle ... museum-art I agree that it is very probable that that fountain has been there since 1972 But the artist is a very famous one and he created several fountains with Persephone in 1972 its possible that this one was moved here at a later date. - and the fountain is named for the statue, not necessarily the date it was installed. The statue of persephone was created in 1972 and obviously he made several, becaause there is one in detroit, one in new york and Michigan also.  But the simplest explanation is ususally right, so most likely "the 1972 fountain" was installed in 1972.

Malted, One more verification of age is here:  This one says it was installed in 1979. hxxp://tinyurl.com/yzs9tap Just trying to narrow down the search in Charleston by finding visual confirmers. AP

i like her AP!

Spending time looking at the area over the lion's eye... I saw a horse...Anyone else see it? Maybe there is a street name related to horse, pony, mustang, bronco...Many brains thinking about this may find something. AP

It figures you would be the one to spot this, Animal Painter .

There are 4 horse-drawn carriage tour companies clumped together just East of Meeting St. in the historic area.

ap i see your horse i think i pointed out a mule or horse, in an old pic of white point, way back in the threads, ill go see if i can find it, cant remember if it was part of the garden, or just .....

cw0909, Reading the reviews of The Battery and White Point Gardens, people remark about the "ubiquitous" horse-drawn carriages in the parks catching their eyes. AP

I don't believe there is a permanent fixture in White Point Gardens with a horse on it. The carriage tours do come down as far as the Battery by way of Meeting and East Bay streets. Some use horses, most use mules. Monuments in the Battery/White Point Park Monument to the Confederate Defenders of Charleston Maine Capstan (replaced with Gen Moultrie) Stede Bonnet marker Daughters of the Confederacy Fountain William Gilmore Simms The Bandstand Second South Carolina Regiment Childrens Fountain USS Amberjack SS-219 Memorial USS Wasp/USS Hobson saliors obelisk/sundial Mortars and Canons There is a view of Fort Sumter and Castle Pinckney but no shots were fired from here on to Sumter, but there was a big party here during the bombardment. There used to be many more cannons but I believe they were moved before the Treasures were buried. The park is currently under going renovations and the Bandstand is mostly disassembled.

just did a search on blyden and found this: hxxp://www.archive.org/details/africanabroadorh02ferr guess the word "abroad"  intrigued me "The African abroad"...like "Abroad in America", Visitors To A New Nation" hxxp://ia311028.us.archive.org/0/items/ ... 01ferr.pdf p. 278 , the very last line speaking for myself, i'm pretty convinced it's in white point gardens somewhere....it's a cultural garden and c3's pic with "may 1913" is hard to get past hxxp://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516ZMokAC i feel the quote from "abroad in america" is just saying "charleston" again the rope hanging from the tree in the image points to the marker about the pirates, and the verse speaking of pirates points to charleston harbor just my feeling

Very nice, Slappy! I am tending to lean toward White Point Gardens, too. It has the sounds of water and birds, sand, palms, literary allusions and numerous visual markers. Did Cthree ever dig anywhere in the park...or use a metal detector or probe? AP

AP i'm not sure if cthree dug anywhere.  did u cthree????

Please see my post under Verse 6 about the Old Slave Market-- and did you notice that the little woman figure in the picture is wearing what are commonly known as "slave bracelets?"  Just a thought.

So here's a comparison of the capstan in White Point Gardens to the nose of the lion in Image 2: I realize that any similarity is only "suggestive" and not exact, as so many other examples are (e.g. wall, columns, fountain in the Cleveland pic, and the fence post, arch, and statue in the Chicago pic).  But I figure what the heck, can't hurt to throw it out there.

In the wings of the butterfly lady, the circles may represent cannons. But with the shading on them making them look more like "cones", I wonder if they could represent speakers. If someone is familiar with our area...Is there a place that has multiple loudspeakers or tornado sirens?...possibly stacked two together on poles? The lines around the edge of the "speakers" may be sound waves. Or...in an entirely different direction...If these are fountains, they could be water waves. AP

There is some sort of "observation tower" which can be seen from Washington Park...as you look North. Can't tell if it has loudspeakers or tornado sirens on it. hxxp://www.panoramio.com/photo/6832836 Aerial shots from Bing show that the tower is now the same red color as surrounding roofs. Update: It is an old fire-watch tower. Upon magnification, there seems to be a bel l in the tower. Still searching... AP

Every time I look at image 2, it reminds me of a painting I did years ago.... animal painter...aka AP

Looking at image 2... The areas inside the wings to each side of the lady's torso... look something like marine mammal flippers with toenails, like you would see on manatees.  Maybe referring to Manatee Warning signs in the harbor. Still searching. AP

that view of the girl AP really looks like she's being strangled........lol, i'm hooked on the pirates...... but look at the flower in the image, doesn't it really stand out compared to the other flower images in the book? and couldn't that be the shape of a crescent moon in the pear above the flower? look again at the state flag of sc, doesn't the daisy remind you of the palm tree in the flag? hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_South_Carolina and if the butterfly lady is the "x marks the spot", i'm pretty sure the flagpole is in the middle of the battery by the bandstand and the flag has the "palm" etto tree........hmm, that "etto"  makes "palm" long ....er

wow it worked! (i'm glad i named the pics something relevant)

Way to go, Slappy! Yes, the shadow on the pear does look like a crescent. Sounds like you are thinking like BP...with his play on words. (Manatees would take you closer to the Battery... ) AP

thanks AP! you guys are so good with your pics and especially the map stuff.  I'm going to have to learn how to do that too. i'm much better with the word play than the maps, or ...i like messing with the words more anyway, lol. i still like these lines to mean HERE "stand and LISTEN... (hear, HERE!) "HEAR the cool..."    (hear, HERE!) "HARKEN to.... "       (hear, HERE!) but that's 'cause i like the word stuff,  ;D another word for "PETAL"  is FLAG!  (like the daisy petals) LOOK: hxxp://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/petal and i think the blyden reference is just that this is the "africa" image....because he thought "africa for the africans" i don't know how to overlap them to try to fit them together

Slappy, Jstarr did a very nice overlay (but did not turn the flower upside down) on page 25 of this thread. It does have more than a passing resemblance to the state flag.  I do like your pointing out the crescent shadow in the pear above..giving even more similarity to the flag.

yikes, thank you AP! i'm  so sorry jstarr! i missed your post! (i'm sorry, been skimming thru a lot lately, and usually it's in the early early morning)..........but ..i am a little bit different in that i'm thinking of a flagpole or a flag in the garden,  not just that it is the sc flag i think the flower itself is not just saying south carolina...but that it's saying "A FLAG" , that the flower is the most prominent  or "key" thing in this image ........i know there are several flagpoles in white point gardens and that jasper guy has a flag too, i think...the guy that grabbed the flag and put it back up during a battle. what are u guys using to overlap the pictures? how do you do it?

Slappy, Here is a link to 10 free Windows photo-editing programs. GIMP is Google's "free Photoshop"...You might try that first. Retail programs are Adobe Photoshop or CorelDraw. hxxp://graphicssoft.about.com/od/pixelb ... otoedw.htm

thanks AP!  i sent you a message!

slappy said from  Reply #398 on: Today at 10:02:52 am » i still like these lines to mean HERE "stand and LISTEN... (hear, HERE!) "HEAR the cool..."    (hear, HERE!) "HARKEN to.... "      (hear, HERE!) but that's 'cause i like the word stuff, from Reply #400 on: Today at 04:58:23 pm i know there are several flagpoles in white point gardens and that jasper guy has a flag too ------------------------------------------------------------------- slappy i like your ideas from the word play stand and listen.....is what you do at the bandstand,gazebo hear the cool.......the fountain nearby with the fish on it flagpole....i think one is halfway between the gazebo,and fountain if i remember right

I think the flower/pear/flag bit is brilliant. Good work.

Looking at the butterfly lady's hair in image 2, I first thought it looked like thorns...then I thought..it's more like an eagle's nest. There is at least one business in Charleston, called "Eagle's Nest". It is a gift shop at 188 Meeting St., in the Market Hall and Sheds. No luck yet in finding out if they were in business in 1981. It would take "feet on the ground" to see if there were a sign or visual confirmer.  It might explain why John Palencar drew the lady's hair in such a hard stick-like way.

I think you have found a secret to JJP's skills here Slappy.  He is a trickster.

thanks boogieman!  but it wasn't just me and......nothing has been found yet .......think we're going to have to get up a fund for our hunters, or if we could find someone in the towns to give someone free room for a week or something, i think i'm gonna ask my friends on facebook if they know someone living in charleston.  maybe we can do this for all the cities.  and when someone can go a certain city, we can all concentrate on that "one" city or image at the same time.  what do you think? ck.... i've been concentrating on this little area in the image: wondering if the limbs could be.. the one on the left--james island ferry down the middle--king street bottom one--white point gardens, wherever the best view of ft. sumter would be, because it goes on down toward ft. sumter doesn't really seem to point to any one place, maybe someone can see better than me unless it points to something specific.......or someone can see something in the shapes, i'm not seeing anything i tried rotating a map.....but i closed it b4 saving it, will try again later earlier, i was trying to work on the word "century".....can just mean "a period in time" or 100 of something, maybe "1 C", tried to find something with any of those, no luck so far also wonder if that drooping petal on the daisy means anything...like jasper's drooping flag: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/tmartin/45 ... otostream/ hxxp://popartmachine.com/item/pop_art/L ... -D4-5794.. .

The limbs representing streets is a good idea...the do look rather 'map-like'.  However, if this isn't the case, they sure do look a lot like the tree behind and to the right of the Jasper statue you linked.  Would BP, thinking that these would be solved rather quickly, use tree trunks in his images?

animal painter wrote:: There is at least one business in Charleston, called "Eagle's Nest". It is a gift shop at 188 Meeting St., in the Market Hall and Sheds. No luck yet in finding out if they were in business in 1981. Today,I called the phone number which was listed for "The Eagle's Nest" gift shop. It was answered by another store name.  The person who answered said that The Eagle's Nest was in business for many years...including the 1980's. It closed 3-4 years ago.  She said that the shops at Market Hall and Sheds can be seen from the sidewalk. (It is not an enclosed mall.) This tells me that there at least was an "Eagle's Nest" in our historic area which had a sign visible to the public in 1980. Whether that is of any use now... AP

look what they've done to the gazebo but it doesn't look like 3 to 4 feet to me hxxp://2.bp.blogspot.com/_X7M7a33yq-k/S ... ++9.09.jpg i've got the guy's phone number if someone's brave enough to call and see if they found something  ;D

Oh my! What are they doing..and when? Thank goodness for old photos. Here is a link to a photo taken on the promenade along the Battery.  What is that obelisk-looking thing in the background?  a smokestack?...a memorial? Jstarr, do you know what that is? I can't seem to find it on any aerial shot. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/thomasawol ... 0/sizes/l/

AP, here's the original site...i just always enlarge it so i can see. this past summer hxxp://paintcharlestondaily.blogspot.co ... stand.html they've got that flagpole blocked (same site, lower down) hxxp://4.bp.blogspot.com/_X7M7a33yq-k/S ... +9.+09.jpg

slappy pm me the # ill call and ilke your connections to the flag across the street from the monument with the sundial on it is and old hotel,fort sumter hotel, one king street now condos

AP I hope jstarr knows what that is, i'd like to know too. cw, thanks

ap i think it is the bridge tower A signature icon for the Charleston region, these towers reach 575 feet into the air and support a road deck about 200 feet above the median high tide mark. hxxp://www.cooperriverbridge.org/towers.shtml hxxp://www.cooperriverbridge.org/cameras.asp no prob slappy

on page 24, 3rd post down, of this thread, i had found a poem of blyden's where he says "one flag"........didn't want to quote the whole post, 'cause i go on and on sometimes, and i couldn't copy the poem for some reason... why are these monuments of "Jasper" so different? i had found this one: (back on p. 24 of this thread) hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/e ... 282%29.JPG this one, the laurel leaves around it, kindof looks like the tree limbs in the image this is where that picture came from, maybe it's not the one in white point gardens because it didn't say where it was, or i couldn't find it: hxxp://dbpedia.org/page/William_Jasper and then the ones i just posted: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/tmartin/45 ... otostream/ hxxp://popartmachine.com/item/pop_art/L ... LC-D4-5794 and in this picture (on p. 24 of this thread) the flagpole is way bigger hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/hdescopela ... 7/sizes/o/

cw0909 wrote:: ap i think it is the bridge tower A signature icon for the Charleston region, these towers reach 575 feet into the air and support a road deck about 200 feet above the median high tide mark. hxxp://www.cooperriverbridge.org/towers.shtml hxxp://www.cooperriverbridge.org/cameras.asp cwo9o9, I believe you must be right. If the tower appears to be that large from this distance, it must be immense! So much for finding another obelisk on the waterfront.

well good and bad news, per my conversation with Dustin Clemens, the project manager (city parks) i spoke to him at 10:45 am 11-18-09, dustin is a very nice man, he was genuinely interested in the story of the hunt, and will be on the look out for the box, on any future projects in the park/s bad news is he said no plexy glass box was found,but would double check that. the contractors only dug out to about 3 ft, from the base of the bandstand good news they found an old sewer system,under the bandstand,that needed to be filled in ie sealed an cemented closed, it appears to run under walkway towards the flagpole, and it needs to be checked out to make sure it wont collapse, so some digging near there in the future dustin is going to send me pics of this update to the park,and info and pics on previous updates

im thinking maybe the fort sumter in pic has 2 meanings, since this house is across from the park of interest

wow cw!  that's exciting!  what do you think?  you think he will let you know if he finds anything? did you get him interested in the hunt?  wouldn't that be something if they find it near the flagpole?  you did a great job!! thank you!

cw0909, That is an excellent job of "communicating" with the right people in Charleston. I just received a response from the administrator of the East Bay Playground, (which is now called the Hazel Parker Playground and Community Center.) The playground is along the waterfront on East Bay Street...which is the same street as East Battery...but farther down the way. I sent her the photo of the obelisk-type object behind the Historic Charleston Preservation Building.  At first she thought it was one of the bridge supports. Then she took a walk down the Battery to see the area for herself. She says that she could not see the object from where she thought it should be... Hmmm So she sent the photo to several other people to see what they could make of it. (I know it MUST be the bridge support...but how strange that she could not see it.) We shall see what comes of it. AP

I have found a photo that I believe conclusively shows the bridge support tower with the cables...end of mystery...

AP, those towers fit perfectly for an iconic image, i thought........but, i don't think they were there in 1981.  were the old bridges an iconic image for charleston? "The eight lane bridge satisfied the capacity of U.S. Route 17 when it opened in 2005 to replace two obsolete cantilever truss bridges. " look at the struts under the old bridge here...looks like a capital H  ;D

is the butterfly lady a slave,last pic in set could BP have seen a similar pic hxxp://www.scribd.com/doc/2541625/The-Slave-Plantations jpeg hxxp://negroartist.com/SLAVE%20SALES%20 ... 0s_jpg.htm

i really liked the likeness to the girl in the image i looked up suriname and found this: "The Surinamese Creoles form the middle group 18% of the population. They are the mixed descendants of West African slaves and Europeans (mostly Dutch)." maybe just another reference to africa? like the gem. merry merry merry christmas everyone!

I have a wild theory on P2/V5. I was wondering if there was anyone near Sullivan's Island? I will post more on my theory once I gather a few more pics from the web.

Not near it, but I've been there and I think it's a great candidate site.

Well as far as my theory, it may be far fetched. Here it goes... For the V5 I will focus on the wingless bird line and after, since the lines before people have come up with Fort Moultrie as a possible nearby location already. A wingless bird ascended I also saw the riddle as someone else mentioned about a wingless bird being smoke. Born of ancient dreams of flight Smoke is born of fire. What does this have to do with ancient dreams of flight? I was thinking of born of fire and ancient flight , which made me think of a Phoenix. The dream part may just be there because a phoenix is a mythical creature. Beneath the only standing member  Of a Forest Stella Maris church across from the fort was built to replace the Church St John the baptist. The church was the only public building left standing on the island after the Charleston fire in 1861 and the war ending in 1865. The definition of forest also says,      Forest  4. a thick cluster of vertical objects: a forest of church spires. To the south  White stone closest Directly south of the church is a small plot of land with a white stone, a stone wall like in the wings and a bird bath which looks like the lion's nose. At twelve paces  From the west side To the west side of the white stone is the bird bath which looks about 5-6 paces, pass the bird bath in the back is another stone wall just about 12 paces Get permission  To dig out I don't know who owns the land or who you would get permission from. Stella Maris is also The star of the sea, like the star on the Fort Sumter part of P2 and the Phoenix idea to me seemed symbolic of Charleston being reborn from the ashes. again the 1861 fire and war. Attached will be some images. 1 is an arial view of Fort Moultrie welcome center. Look at the walkway near the parking lot. The X in P2 looks to be where the church is. Also there is a tree in front of the church, which looks similar to the type of tree used for the "branch street map" I said my theory was wild and probably far fetched.  But I just wanted to get this out there Sorry for the image quality of the white stone and stone wall. I could only get those from google earth. The tree image was too large a file for an attachment so here is a link to it. hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=hxxp://www.photolib.noaa.gov/bigs/line3276.jpg&imgrefurl=hxxp://www.photolib.noaa.gov/htmls/line3276.htm&usg=__5K-t9u8iyo6numJYYJJ52tHH4F8=&h=2448&w=1632&sz=2889&hl=en&start=1&um=1&tbnid=GI-ga_NqTPQGaM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=100&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dstella%2Bmarisgnarly%2Btree%26hl%3Den%26um%3D1

I'm pretty sure "the only standing member of a forest to the south" refers to Osceola(as in Osceola National Forest in Florida), whose tomb is in Fort Moultrie where he died while imprisoned, and whose ceremonial headdress was made from three ostrich feathers, which would connect the "wingless bird" part.  Additionally, keeping with the African theme of this puzzle, more than 50% of African slaves brought to North America were processed through Sullivan's Island. Anyhow, Osceola's tomb is probably key.  I'm in Charleston on vacation for a few more days. Fort Moultrie, here I come!

Skunkboy -- that's a great theory. But I wonder what you would say about the fact the verse says Beneath the only standing member. It can't literally be beneath Osceola, unless BP disinterred the unfortunate fellow. To the south, perhaps? Also, I pair the line "A wingless bird ascended" with "Born of ancient dreams of flight" -- how does that reconcile with Osceola?

Hi all - I've only been looking at this for a few days and it'll take me a while to get my head round all the amazing research on this book, so forgive my general ignorance. Couldn't resist posting a few random thoughts on this image to clear my head, though it's probably nonsense. ;-) I'm wondering about the idea of a lion hidden behind a "Fort Sumter" mask. Has anyone investigated the other Sumter, which also falls within the range of latitude and longitude...? It has a "Swan Lake Iris Garden" on Liberty Street. (Didn't the solution for Image 4 involve Liberty Boulevard...? I'm interested in the recurrence of the lion image.) The white fringes of the fairy's wings resemble feathers. Sumter is the "Gamecock City". The Gamecocks are associated with the University of South Carolina, which seems to be on Sumter Street, founded 1801. It's possible to see an "1801" and a "USC" around the 80, though it's possible to see almost anything in all those whiskers...

hi WhiteRabbit! i'm just rereading all the posts myself and taking notes.  i've been gone for quite awhile, and it  seems quiet here, but i'll be getting back into it once my notes are up to date.  welcome to the hunt! the outline of charleston and fort sumter are all in the image. and the old pearman bridge and oysters or cannons. seems it just needs to be pinned down to exact place.  good luck!

(Ah, OK...thanks for that!)

How should I go about discussing this image with verse 8?

erexere post it on this thread and verse 8 thread (just copy it over there) can' t wait and hi

I posted a bunch to verse 8 earlier and should've posted to this image instead.  I think I'm working more with the image perspective.  I'll try to copy and paste after first adding this pigeon idea, which is somewhat independent of any verse theory. (copy from verse 8 thread now follows) Anyways, this is verse 8 discussion and I am unclear on whether you're pairing it with Image 10, 1, or 2. Here's why I think it is 2:  The Mitchell (verse) connection to Africanology (image), the wonderstone/hearth (verse) connection to a moth's wing spots and attraction to a flame (image ..see moth winged lady).  A line may be drawn through these two points that points to Lake Park. [/quote] I'm tempted to lean towards Charleston and the Fort Sumpter being red herring because 1) more obvious than anything else, 2) still serve a purpose towards a Milwaukee interpretation In the Sumpter shape, the correlation of the eye slits to the lion bridges is strong, and the center of the time piece may be the light house.  The star fits the General statue in Lake Park as a symbol, and the three stripes do look yellow after a second study of two different sources.  The contrast between the "teeth" and the cheek stripe is a good way of seeing what is white and what is almost white but actually yellow...if it were the other way around I'd be looking for a smoker or coffee drinker...so please consider the Ellsworth Kelly, 1965 art piece that hangs just a stones throw from the light house in the Milwaukee Art Museum. Here's a better mix of the moth lady and the topographical map image, elbows to hips on BOTH sides are strong match as well is the lower left (southern paw?) wing segment: I was looking just one analogy deep, but now I think it's two deep Wonderstone : Hearth :: Moth : Flame :: Pigeon : Bridge Now tell me pigeons aren't attracted to bridges.

erexere, Here is an idea for the butterfly lady...in Charleston.

Hrmmph, I'm not ready to let a nude statue topple my pairing theory, but I'm stuck with the idea that charleston is involved.

too much fun with that one

You forgot the bracelets. It could only be wonder woman.

I was thinking along the lines of the Lady being an ATLAS moth, but I like the Wonder Woman identifier. Charles Moulton Marston, her creator has a 'bird' reference in his name with MOULT.  Does that get us anywhere?

fort moultrie hmmm, you might have something there

That cracks me up, WR! How do you find these crazy matches??

So which is it, are the three lines red white blue OR red yellow blue?

erexere, In my opinion... The color, if it is not vibrantly obvious, is just "pale". If it were necessary and required for recognition, it would have been made more distinct. In this case...I don't think it would help to "sweat the details". AP

The red, white and blue bars corresponded *very* well to a sign someone found at a park in the area -- the right length, spacing and colors in order.  There was a picture back in this thread somewhere.

Jambone wrote:: I noticed something in Forest Blight's picture - the red, white, & blue stripes. forest_blight wrote:: Why do I always miss these things? And in my own pictures! These are the previous references to the red-white-blue stripes on a previous page of this thread. (page 14 I think.) Thanks ,Bigmattyh, for the lead... AP

Looks like it's here.

Oh...I finally read through this whole thread.  I feel completley okay with tossing out all of my ideas linking P2 with Milwaukee...or V8.  I feel like I've just recovered from a high fever and now things look all neat and tidy with respect to P2 as Charleston and V6 looks very good as its pairing. I'm trying to judge how the picture could have a proportionality preference with respect to having a set of photos of key locations that all fit into a "nice" order when sticking the poetic sap to the purpose of directing us to the casque location. Is it concievable that BP took photos from a scenic highpoint like a bridge or fort sumpter or downtown building?

WR -- you've circled the correct spot for that sign.

On the Edmund Wilmont Blyden idea - the flag for Lybia has one 5 sided star, just like the one on the Ft. Sumter mask.

FWIW, Libya's flag was solid green (no stars, no stripes, no nothing) from 1972-2011.  Preiss hid these treasures in 1980-1.

Unknown: E. Lee Spence, a pioneer underwater archaeologist and prolific author of books and articles about shipwrecks and sunken treasure discovered, with the help of Isle of Palms residents Wally Shaffer and George Campsen Esq., many shipwrecks along the shores of the Isle of Palms in the 1960s. Their discoveries included the Civil War blockade runners Rattlesnake, Stonewall Jackson, Mary Bowers, Constance, Norseman and the Georgiana. Just re-read this thread and considering V6 with its Blyden/slavery connections. I wondered if Treasure Island might simply indicate an island, eg the Isle of Palms to the right of Sullivan's, which also seems to have been known as Long Island (long palm's shadow). There's a Palm Blvd. Fair remuneration - fairway / golf...? Fairway Oaks Lane...Fairway Village Lane... Bar that binds - it's a barrier island... The butterfly fringes might be the eastern beaches.

Stella Maris still rules though. The upper mask could indicate an inside view of the arched window and organ stops. Here's a map showing church and Moultrie sign...I'm not sure where the infamous stone is... Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side Get permission To dig out. "The only standing member of a forest" seems an unnecessarily complicated way of saying "tree", and I still like the church/Osceola interpretation of this. Or it could be both I suppose. "Beneath" could be south on the map. At twelve The highlighted road to the south is Station 12 St. Butterfly lady and the glasses (sunglasses?) might suggest a beach location. This is the view from the bottom of 12 St. Get permission I was wondering if any of the various signs in this area might mention permits...

I have found a Daisy Geyser located near a pear shaped stream, with Lion Geyser and a twist of Roads looking like the African Mask and hanging pendant mask (string and all) in the wood no lion fears because it is the Petrified (frightened) Forest.  Water always veers into the sky with geysers, so and the whistle always sounds for Old Faithful.  Also, the fairy lady's wings are exactly like the colorful mud pits that bubble through the park. Check out the area near the Old Faithful Geyser with Google Earth. (This is just in case you don't find it where you were already searching).

Interesting ideas....but we can't forget that the lines in the mask ARE Charleston.

This Core Sound thing has my interest.

Unknown: Two years after the lighthouse went into service, the Civil War started. As the Confederates lost hold on the Outer Banks, they retreated. To prevent the Union soldiers from using the lighthouse to their advantage, the Confederates blew it up. Unknown: During the war, the lighthouse served as a lookout post. When the Confederates were driven back, the lighting system was removed so that the Union soldiers would not be able to use the lighthouse. Unknown: During the Civil War, the lighthouse became very important. The area surrounding the new Cape Lookout Lighthouse served as a military stronghold. When the Confederates were forced to retreat in 1861, they attempted to blow up both beacons so they would be inoperable for arriving Union soldiers. Asking a few really straight forward questions I am able to come up with the following notions: 1) Why the lion?  Perhaps it is attached to the common phrase "in like a lion, out like a lamb" and suggest we are looking at a site that endures massive wind storms.  The lion, symbolic of the sun as well, and the moth have me considering a destruction theme, like the story of Icarus...minus the part about moths being nocturnal. 2) What species of winged insect is characterized by the wonder woman?  How about the Polyphemus Moth, which is the name for the Cyclops of Greek myth.  A Cyclops could indicate a lighthouse perhaps? 3) Does the certainty about Fort Sumpter relate to any specific lighthouse's history?  Fort Sumpter's greatest moments revolved around the Civil War.  It's lighthouse was destroyed in the conflict.  Where any other lighthouses nearby destroyed, did any survive?  Was it important to the war that a secondary lighthouse location be maintained for an alternate path to safety?  Here is a list of lighthouses that existed during the Civil War: a) Bodie "Body" Lighthouse, NC: b) Cape Hatteras Lighthouse, NC: c) Ocracoke Island Lightouse, NC: No mention of damage or soldier involvement during the Civil War. d) Cape Lookout Lighthouse, NC: e) Bald Head Island Lightouse "Old Baldy", NC: No mention of damage or soldier involvement during the Civil War. Okay, I'm interested in going with option D, the lighthouse that was "very important", and survived the attempted bombardment.  Part of the story at Cape Lookout includes mention of the original lighthouse being totally destroyed, but the newer one was maintainable through the conflict.  I'm not a history buff, so excuse me if I get anything wacky.  All of the South Carolina light houses were preemptively prepped (lenses removed and secured if possible) for the conflict so the Union soldiers couldn't use them to easily land when the state ceded from union. Cape Lookout is right in the Harker's Island area.  If we are seriously looking for an anchor as the pointer to the specific dig spot, then I've located one large black anchor at the Harker's Island Visitors Center on the southeast corner of the island. hxxp://www.nps.gov/calo/planyourvisit/v ... enters.htm

erexere wrote:: What species of winged insect is characterized by the wonder woman? Intro 17: "...the Fairy Spirits of Africa...fluttered down like a windfall of butterflies". (Get yrself a copy of the book - there are plenty on Amazon...) hxxp://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... ition=used

Thanks!  I am one of those people who never uses Amazon.  My mom gets it all there.  I tend to just do ebay or craigslist...silly me, I just forget Amazon is the place to go. So the woman is more Butterfly than Moth, still the "eye" features are consistent on the wings.  The verse mentions 'eyes of old' is that possibly a cyclopsian myth connector? Also, i want to say how much better it is seeing the Sumpter connection.  I cant believe I had workedup such an elaborate view of image 2 as the Milwaukee image early on.  It was that African, lion bridge thing that got me...  Now I've settled down enough to look for a more plain process:  find the key (charleston map) area confirmer, narrow it down from there, like the Terminal Tower or the Old Chicago Water Tower two or three miles off.  In this case, I think Sumpter/Charleston is the regional connector, and now I wonder if the Beaufort area is the more specific result or is it a stretch being too far away?  Blackbeard's history seems consistent with the first part of the verse and was involved in several cases of being immobilized by sand bars. I read a note on the .gov website that metal detecting is not allowed in the area.  Things have really changed in 30 years to hamper any chances eh? The Sumter shape has rotation when compared to the actual site.  Perhaps some other rotations will match something.  The clock hands has a similar angle to the Outer Banks. Lighthouses and Lions both have "Keepers".

I don't have a logic trail for this, but it is associated with hunting, and has a lighthouse nearby.  The date 1913 precedes the building of this structure which was in the 1920's. The Whalehead Club, note how the dormers and the two off-level gables are on both sides, it's oddly reminiscent of the "mouth" on the Sumter clock.

It's interesting, but Preiss would not have had access to that view of the club in 1980, enough to take a photo for Palencar to incorporate into the painting.

I had that same thought, only the ground perspective has the same effect.  Nine dormers per side looks like ^^^^^^^^^.  The Sumter clock looks truncated like <^^^^^^> and better compares to the space between the peaks.  The 1980 perspective would be a badly damaged, defunct and run down building.  I don't think it was even on the historic places register at the time.  Nearby there was a white house however, where the Keepers of the lighthouse lived.  The most bothersome part is how far north this is deviating from Sumter and it is walking distance from Roanoke which is the image 3 consensus...

I'm sure this has been mentioned before but..... does anyone else agree that Sullivan's Island can be seen almost exactly within the white area of the lower right side of our lady's butterfly wings?

YES--undoubtedly. See the thread for Verse 6 for more info.

Huh. That's pretty neat.

Just now worked with rotating the map to fit the orrientation of Sumter and with respect to light houses I liked the Morris Lighthouse the best as fitting the perspective of looking at Sumter in the direction from which the cat's eyes are positioned.  Made me consider Morris the Cat for a second and then i realized that a sitting cat's shape is ver much like a pear.  Lol.  The house nearby, which isnt underwater yet might be worth looking into.  It might be considered "below the bar".  Watching and listening to birds is a major cat activity as well...

I don't get it...you're saying this is a match...?

Lower right side of the upper wing, WR.

forest_blight wrote:: Lower right side of the upper wing, WR. . Why does that look like the line from verse 11?

Unknown: Thank you for your interest in Cape Lookout National Seashore. The first Cape Lookout lighthouse was built in 1812, but it proved to be too short to effectively warn sailors away from the dangers of Lookout Shoals.  The current lighthouse was completed on November 1, 1859.  At that time, it did not have the painted design (called a "day mark") but was a simple red brick tower.  The tower was painted it's distinctive diagonal checker or diamond pattern in 1873.  This pattern makes the Cape Lookout lighthouse the only one in North Carolina which can act as a compass: the black diamonds mark North and South while the white diamonds mark East and West.  A historical timeline for our lighthouse can be found on this webpage: hxxp://www.nps.gov/calo/historyculture/ ... meline.htm . The Cape Hatteras and Bodie Island lighthouses ( hxxp://www.nps.gov/caha/historyculture/ ... ations.htm ) also received day marks in the 1870s while the Currituck lighthouse in Corolla was left with its brick color.  This was done because all of these lighthouses we designed based on the same pattern.  The different day marks allowed mariners to determine their location during the day from the pattern of the lighthouse.  Sailors could distinguish the lighthouses at night by their light flash pattern.  The Cape Lookout lighthouse has used several different flash patterns but the one currently used is one flash every 15 seconds. The building used for our Visitor Center on Harkers Island is older than it appears: it is a re-purposed motel.  It was first used by the National Park Service in 1996.  There was a two-story Ranger Station near the current Harkers Island Visitor Center which was removed when the visitor center was completed.  There was also a restaurant, which has since been destroyed, located in the picnic area across the street from the visitor center. The anchor in front of this building is from the Olive Thurlow, which wrecked in December 1902 in the Lookout Bight about 0.5 miles south of the Cape Lookout lighthouse.  The Thurlow  was a three masted, 577 ton, barkentine that was 149 feet long.  It was carrying lumber from Charleston, SC to New York, NY when the crew sought shelter from a gale in the Lookout Bight.  Despite the protection of the natural harbor, the ship was driven on the sand by the winds.  The surfmen of the Cape Lookout Life-Saving Station responded to a distress signal and rescued all but one member of the shipwrecked crew.  John Chalky fell overboard after being struck in the head by the mizzenmast and was lost at sea.  More information on the Life-Saving Service in this area can be found on this webpage: hxxp://www.nps.gov/calo/historyculture/surfmen.htm . The anchor from the Olive Thurlow  is on loan to Cape Lookout National Seashore from the North Carolina Office of Archives and History ( hxxp://www.history.ncdcr.gov/ ).  I am not sure if or where the anchor was displayed before it was loaned to the park. If you have any other questions or require additional information, please feel free to contact the park at (252) 728-2250 or [email protected] . Here is an email response from the Harkers Island visitors center to my general questions about the lighthouses in area and then the anchor specifically, Maybe something useful to somebody.  Just concluded a glancing read of the history of the Olive Thurlow December wreck and learned its anchor wasn't recovered until 1996, so this can most certainly get crossed off the list of possibilities.

What in this image might be considered as leaning?  One of the Cape Romaine Lighthouses has a noticeable lean. Sumter clock:  a clock is often set in a tower structure, but also on the ground in the other extreme, as in a sundial.  Lighthouses still echo with possiblity since some use a period reference like a flash every 15 or 20 seconds.  They have a small hand and a long hand.  The Cape Romaine lightouses are two almost side by side, one short, one tall.  The wing has the two circular blips side by side in the upper part.  The Sumpter clock, pear, mask, and butterfly woman all have a tilt to them.  I bet there wont be any trouble digging in this area, it looks defunct enough.  I wonder if the idea is to find a spot where the sun casts a shadow to a spot that completes an angle just as shown in the clock, connecting to the short light houses position...or where is the shadow of the tilting lighthouse at 4pm in May (based on 1913)?  Ive used the sundial tables to find a shadow position in the past.  The trick is finding the tables that show the seasonal adjustments.  Some sundials have this chart built into them.  I worked with something like this at the U of O back in the early 90's. 33 degrees elevation with a 265 degree east to west azimuth (about 8:45 position for the shorthand using 12 as north.). Using a trigonometry this puts the point of the light house shadow about 230 feet east and 20 feet north of the 150 foot tall lighthouse.  This alignement also puts the lighthouse in an obstructing position from a slender path leading to the older smaller lighthouse. My figures are estimates only.  As far as getting the approx angle and azimuth of the sun, the Month is all that is needed.  The 1913 could be 24 time, or 7:13, which could represent where the Sun's position is as far as the short hand angle in the noon as north convention.  That is comparing an estimated 265 degrees with an actual value just under 235 degrees.  This deserves closer examination, but it looks close in many ways. Is this island accessible or private?

Okay, just finished looking more closely at some things. I still don't know the exact azimuth, but looking at a solar chart curve I could tell it was something in the middle of 180 and 270. Based on where the road between the lighthouses it is close enough to that estimate. I think the sumpter clock is really BP's personal compass, hanging from a cord or chain. Here's what I've done in these images, which in my haste are a little out of order: (second from top): using the skinny road as a line and compass declination back to true north gives 240 degrees (top): finding the angle of the other lighthouse to be 214 degrees (third from top): turning the compass shows a long hand and short hand shape that is similar to sumpter clock (4pm) (fourth): sumpter clock Here's what's really amazing, using a webtool to display an analog clock's hands at exactly 7:13 or 19:13 in 24hour time has the same compass reading of 214 degrees.  I didn't even have to touch the compass setting to see this.  Nothing I've done here requires GOOGLE MAPS or even a map at all in order to compute these angles with a compass.  All this can be done on the ground with standard compass.  Also, notice the compass needle itself isn't perfectly lined up with the short arrow, that is because true north and magnetic north are not the same. NOTE: there is a purple short hand arrow beneath where the compass arrow sits perfectly aligned.

why not just go with the short hand pointing north?

hey, that works too... I'm reconsidering everything.  I think May 1913 from the verse is two things, May is putting us on Memorial Day, but the original May 1st version, and 1913 is the 24-hr version of 7:13pm. 7:13 looks the same as a rotated 4 o'clock.  This number corresponds to the angle between the twin lighthouses (not exact twins, one is short and one is tall - is that like fraternal twins Edwin and Edwina?). I think a Sun position is needed to put us on a shadow location, I learned now that different days in the month can make enough difference in distance, so Memorial Day is a great deduction based on Charleston and Sumter.  Three possibilities work in my mind, (1) the position of the Sun where the lighthouse and small road and Sun line up, or (2) the position of the Sun where both lighthouses and Sun line up, or (3) wherever the shadow points at the Sun's azimuth on May 1st.  The peak angle of the Sun on May 1st is about the same from year to year being about 72.5 degrees.  This value is interesting to me because it is very close to 1/5th of a 360 degree circle.  There's a few "five" things going on here, like the star in the Sumpter clock, and May being the 5th month, but also the little pentagon on the wing. As far as polygons go, there's a few things that make me think they are clues about the higher order octagonal shape of the tall lighthouse:

Sorry if this is hard to follow, its going to look complicated before it gets simplified. 1913 = 19:13 = 7:13 PM, which is the same as 12:38 if you keep the angle between hands the same and rotate.  Looking at a 1980 table, the elevation of the Sun is 71.8 degrees from North and 196.6 degrees from East to West.  The Lighthouse is 150 feet tall, which computes to 45.3 feet South and 13.5 feet East or 47.3 feet of shadow from the base. But this could all be wrong...maybe May 8th is where we the shadow is "scene". I think this is a lighthouse shadow as it is "outlined" and up to the left on the image is an orb like depiction, the Sun?

It's really interesting, but I have trouble getting past in the two found casques the picture just got you to the general location of the casque (city) With some local area confirmers in each picture, Things you could see from nearby the casque site. Then it was the verse, only that specifically took you from the locale to the exact spot to dig. Just me but I would suspect the next casque to be found will bear out that pattern. What would the odds be that out of 12, the two that are uniquely that way are found... Not impossible, but I think unlikely.  -on the other hand, there are no clocks in those two found pictures. so maybe this applies to the pictures with clocks. Can you explain how this would work with image 1 and the clock at 6:00 or image 7 with the clock at midnight?

I haven't given this type of sun/shadow consideration to image1 or 7.  Certainly we need to look into the more specific locating method.  I think Four21thrasher got me on this idea when he pointed out the semicircular arc line and the outline of the tower shape, which I hadn't noticed before.  The Sun travels in an arc. On the eighth a scene could be an instruction to stand at the south side of the lighthouse, one of the eight side's, and walk about 50 feet south.  Might be as simple as that based on the shadow about noon.  I doubt BP wanted for us to do tons of calculations.  Just getting there is doable if only your focus is light house "twins" and Charleston the nearest big city.  The rest is using a compass, some verse and the Sumpter clock help to identify what month shadow is important and it confirms the lighthouses as the site by using the clock hands to identify the exact angle of direction.  I can see the Sun slowly moving from East to West and the shadow cast by the tall tilting lighthouse will move over the path to the west and then come around slowly to the south on it's eastward end before sunset.  Then our task is to decide "when" is the right time to dig.  My bet is on peak azimuth OR 12:38pm. Wandered off the response, sorry.  It sure would be a possibility on both of the other clock featured images.  We need to have a Month and Day to give it any practical worth.  Memorial Day just fits too well with Image2.  Pearl Harbor for Image1?  MardiGras isnt' a specific day is it?

I never noticed the shoals matching the branch with the pear on it. and I also noticed the Ft Sumter image is hanging from the spot on the shoals called Diamond Shoals and the stone for this image is diamond

This coast line next to the pair of lighthouses looks suspicious: I think the Diamond Shoals stands to be a reasonable inclusion along with other lighthouse locations that tease us.  It's a veritable "daisy chain" of travels along the Outer Banks Lighthouses route towards Sumpter/Charleston Maltedfalcon, I was just looking at verse 10 and realized I came very close to goofing it up with verse 6.  That line about grey giant and long arm extending has been firmly wedged in my brain since working on Image1 and the Japanese Intermnent perspective.

Yes, Mardi Gras is a specific day--it's Tuesday. Fat Tuesday, specifically, the day before Lent begins on Ash Wednesday. It's always the day before, which will be exactly 47 days before Easter occurs (since Ash Wednesday occurs 46 days prior to Easter.) That means it can fall any time between Feb 3 and March 9.

The arms of the lepidoptera lady could be indicating that the image should be reversed, so If you mirror the mask on image 2 which confirms Charleston there is an outline overlaid on the skull which matches the wharf on the plan of Castle Pinckney on this historic map: hxxp://www.history-map.com/picture/001/ ... il-War.htm This map also has the familiar plan of Fort Sumpter and Fort Moultrie outline could be the lion's mouth. nice place behind a wall again: hxxp://binged.it/uvcQwG

wk, that is a fantastic looking map sketch and the Bing link is unlike anything I've seen as far as clarity and ease of use.  It really is astounding.  Thanks for bringing it to my attention. I'm having a tough time seeing what you're describing, there certainly are similar symmetries.  I'm currently all over the place with this image...been focused on lighthouses too much I think.  It's probably a simple civil war related riddle in the end. Oh that reminds me, when I was visiting Maryland last summer I visited Fort McHenry.  It gave me some perspective, not much, but at least I have a little first hand fort experience.  ...and that reminds me of the time I dressed up as a Bluecoat to ride a horse in the Rose Parade...it was strange being so involved with Civil War history so far from where most of the action took place.

erexere wrote:: It's probably a simple civil war related riddle in the end. Are you working on the same hunt I am? What riddle are you talking about? Image - gets you to the treasure ground. verse takes you to the casque, based on things you see in the local area... What riddle are you trying to solve? Chicago - There was no riddle. Cleveland there was no riddle. What about Image 2 makes you think it will be different?

Sorry, i was referring to things of a similar nature.  For instance, understanding that 'beneath two countries' isnt litteraly two actual countries, but gardens NAMED for countries.  Im just generalizing.  There isnt some superdeep riddle per se, just a minute adjustment from seeing things too literally.  Same goes for "Bar that binds", the question of which bar becomes a riddle.  Others, not I, made the claim that image 2 has the same shape as Fort Sumpter.  Surely you know Fort Sumpter was very involved in the Civil War.  I am proposing that something of that nature is part of the solution to this hunt since this others here have outlined the reference.  Do you have an arguement for how nothing civil war related is to do with this hunt?

erexere wrote:: I'm having a tough time seeing what you're describing, there certainly are similar symmetries. The outline which you say is a lighthouse on this image , if mirrored is the same as the outline of Castle Pinckney. It is described on the map as a Wharf.

erexere wrote:: Do you have an arguement for how nothing civil war related is to do with this hunt? Oh no - however I dont believe it is deeper than, Greek cultural garden = a country name. or Brush = nearby an art institute. so Civil war item would be right there but we wont need to examine which battles it was involved in etc..

wk wrote:: The outline which you say is a lighthouse on this image , if mirrored is the same as the outline of Castle Pinckney. It is described on the map as a Wharf. Hey, I didn't see Pinckney even existed before.  It looks omitted from the charleston outline.  Intentional?  The patch on the lions head does look kind of like you say.  Time for a closer look.  I didn't catch anyone ever mentioning this before. Pinckney the man is buried at St. Michaels across from Washington Park.  I can see why folks have brought up the obelisk, probably a better candidate than a lighthouse.

Unknown: Same goes for "Bar that binds", the question of which bar becomes a riddle. Want an ACTUAL bar that binds? Look up "Earthquake bolts". Especially ones with lion heads on the ends. You might be surprised that there are actually BARS that BIND. And that they are in Charleston. Charleston lies on a fault line known as the Woodstock fault, which geologists have determined was caused by a subterranean lava "bloom" that cracked tectonic plates millions of years ago. The adjusting layers caused a severe earthquake in Charleston on August 31, 1886, destroying hundreds of homes throughout the city and damaging many more. Because of the shaking effect that the earthquake shocks had in knocking down walls in many homes, thereafter a number of houses in the city were adorned with metal rods passing through joists and connected by bolts on outer walls. These earthquake bolts can be seen in the form of stars, crosses or round plates on many older homes around Charleston. Also...just a pet peeve of mine: it's not Fort SUMPTER. It's Fort SUMTER. There is no P in it.

If the earthquake bolt theory is correct, then we can have some confidence this casque is still findable. Buildings that are old enough to have such a bolt are worth preserving, so if a casque is under such a bolt, I'd be inclined to think it is still there. P.S. Some of them have lion faces on them.

Image 2 and verse 6 ideas. Note: Blackbeard works better as a NC Beaufort Inlet connection, but I'm taking a moment to consider thenBeaufortnin SC just south of Charleston. Searching to see if other mentions of this came up empty in the forums.  The image has Africa themes, then verse has Blackbeard themes.  There is Beaufort in SC and theres Fort Beaufort in Africa.  I see pigeons in the wings.  There's a Pigeon Point Park in Beaufort.  Theres a Lady's Island and a Cat Island.  In the art world a sitting cat is the shape of a pear...not my cat though, he's on the slim side.  Other ideas about the pear have me thinking 'garden of Eden' (gold fruit) but also "pair"...which is why I liked the double lighthouse theory so much. I spent a couple days looking at Edwin/a and 1913 May stuff.  Lots of Gettysburg 50th year veterans stuff, but no distinct SC related memorials or plaques. I thought 1913 might be a Centennial 100 year of something born in 1813, but again nothing discernible, yet. Charleston is the oldest town in SC.  Beaufort is the 2nd oldest. I know its Sumter, but why do those old historical maps use Sumpter instead?  In reference to wk's link I simply deferred to what was n use... I know this doesnt add anything new but the shape of South Carolina sorta looks like the shape of the upper left wing. The Beaufort Lighthouse has a white house close at hand.  Does the word "hand" imply a Sundial Clock method is in use?  Im still in favor of the idea since a spherical golden colored orb seems to be in the forehead of the mask up and to the left of the tower outline/shadow on the charleston image.

Unknown: If the earthquake bolt theory is correct, then we can have some confidence this casque is still findable. Buildings that are old enough to have such a bolt are worth preserving, so if a casque is under such a bolt, I'd be inclined to think it is still there. P.S. Some of them have lion faces on them. FB Said: Exactly. And see my notes in MF's new thread, about the simple solution.

A different BP, Baden-Powell, was an ambidextrous artist born Robert Stephenson Smyth Powell.  He's the originator of the Boy Scouts.  I find it curious that verse 6 echoes Robert Lewis Stevenson as the name is so similar as this BP's name. The winged woman with arms crossed may be an expression of ambidexterity.  Baden-Powell spent much time in Africa. As for a maritime reference that fits SC, i cant find much of anything.  The most famous link to the scouts is The four Chaplains of the Dorchester sinking. I noticed Sumpter the city was incorporated on Jan. 1st, 1800, the birth of the 19th century?

I'm low seeing if the tower outline is more of a Calhoun monument reference that takes us to the ferry at the end of Calhoun St.

low?

maltedfalcon wrote:: low? Nevermind, i dont recall exactly whatever it was the ipad autocorrect deleted.  I'll have to take greater care when posting from that device.

The chain holding the Sumter-clock looks like the path the ferry takes from either charleston or mt. Pleasant to Sumter.

.

421, that reminds me more of a bridge.  Maybe a bridge that has a traffic jam once in awhile.  That plays into a Jamboree theory i have about the boyscouts.  Which bridges in Charleston have daily traffic jams?  Any of them raise or lift?

in the summer time and through most of the fall, you can crawl the bridge to folly faster than you can drive. although, many times I did this because i simply couldn't drive... mmm... beer.

I have no particular favorite or preference for what might be ascribed as the "bar that binds", so I hope it's not taken as a distraction to suggest it be added to the list.  Things I've gathered as options are, Charleston Law or Court Any of the prominent sand bars in the area including distant ones involved with stopping or wrecking a historically significant ship. An Earthquake pin to stabilize built structures, An Anchor A Locked Gate ..any others?

Folly looks like a great place to dig...but where?

I am not proposing a site on Folly at all.. I still think downtown Charleston somewhere.

After realising that the Pirate House with the Stevenson plaque is in Georgia rather than Charleston, I'm a bit dubious about this verse/image combo. I prefer V5.

I like how this image evokes thoughts of wild Africa and honoring the spirit of freedom and grace.  The daisy and the chain seem like a clue that there will be more than a few links to work through.

This Boston stuff about using midnight as a clue for a 12th stone, and possible reference to "...the Age's harvest reaping", reminded me of the curious litany entry for Charleston: Bright harvest of the midnight rock Midnight rock, 12 stone, 12 St...? (Common abbreviation in Europe.) Station Twelve St...(continues up past the church, circled with Moultrie flag sign...) The "twelfth station" was the crucifixion... Lane Two twenty two Station 22 and Station 22-and-a-half St You'll see an arc of lights Lighthouse, rotating light / arclight Weight and roots extended Together saved the site Of granite walls Wind swept halls Citadel in the night Reminiscent of Moultrie, though I think there might be stuff in there we haven't fully unravelled yet. Before reaching Moultrie, you pass Citadel St... A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight ...while proceeding west along Poe Ave... Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south Which leads you to Osceola..."to the south" might be a repetition of "beneath"... White stone closest White stone "close st"...? White stone, white st, street, saint...? (Stella Maris, Mary) At twelve paces Osceola fought a number of duels, eg see here . From the west side Get permission To dig out Could be that rock, or near the church, or by the beach...I reckon it's somewhere around here though. I expect we've overlooked some Poe references or quotations. Some of this stuff about windswept halls and citadels in the night sounds like it might come from Poe. hxxp://literarytraveler.com/literary_ar ... sland.aspx He seems to be central to this puzzle, with Poe Ave leading from "Lane two twenty two" to Moultrie. The Edgar Allan Poe library is on L'on (Lion) a couple of blocks from the lighthouse. He was stationed at Moultrie, wrote about balloons, treasure and gold skulls , also a book called The Casque of Amontillado . Get permission to dig out I'm also fairly dubious about BP burying a casque somewhere (presumably without permission) and then telling you to go see some official to allow you to remove it again. It doesn't seem to fit the style of this book. It seems more likely to be some kind of cryptic clue to me. Since BP had planned a sequel with an explanation of any solved casques, he might have intended crossover clues like "midnight rock" to emerge gradually.

Unknown: It seemed to have been constructed  for  no  especial  use  within  itself,  but  formed merely the interval between two of the colossal supports of the roof  of  the catacombs,  and was  backed  by  one of  their circumscribing walls of solid granite. It  was in vain that Fortunato, uplifting his  dull torch, endeavored to pry into the depth of the recess. Its termination the feeble light did not enable us to see. Unknown: Withdrawing the key I stepped back from the recess. “Pass  your  hand,”  I  said,  “over  the  wall;  you cannot help feeling the nitre. Indeed it is very damp. Once more let me implore you to return." ...aha, Poe's short story "The Casque of Amontillado" (also called "The Cask of Amontillado") has "walls of solid granite". hxxp://www.ibiblio.org/ebooks/Poe/Amontillado.pdf (Fortunato gets chained there and left to die.) (Like I say, the Edgar Allan Poe library is near the lighthouse, so the verse might still be talking about that "site" at this point.)

This clinches it for me. Right next to that white thing I'm always on about, next to the church (yeah, yeah)... ...this. The trail follows Poe Ave from the lighthouse to Moultrie. My reading of those final lines is: Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south Just south of the church on Osceola White stone closest At twelve paces This white stone thing, close to St Mary, Stella Maris, at the junction of Station Twelve St ("at 12") and Osceola ("at twelve paces", duellist), also confirmed by 12 and 04 on the clock (it's 1204 Middle St) and star. Trail begins with a lighthouse and ends at Stella Maris, the beginning and ending tied up by the "star of the sea" theme. From the west side Get permission To dig out. Casque is buried on the west side (where those wires are), "permission" probably being a pun on "by mission" (church) or something.

Noting compass magnetic declination for Charleston, SC in 1980 is 4 degrees 26 minutes West. Here is the Polyphemus moth,

Here is the Clash of the Titans (1981) Polyphemus Anyone willing to see the parallel between this Greek mythological figure from an epic poem Odyssey. I like the idea that Odysseus is "like a lion", hiding behind a twig of a branch to implore Naussica for some clothing. hxxp://www.jstor.org/pss/4352235

I plugged in the sun position for May 1st (Historical Memorial Day) in 1980 at 4pm and the shadow on the smaller lighthouse lands across the path about 50 feet from the center of the structure.  Not sure about any of this, but I thought it looked similar to the 4pm on the sumter-clock

Here's the PDF summary of my Sullivan's Island theory. Sullivan's Island theory

WhiteRabbit wrote:: This white stone thing, close to St Mary, Stella Maris, at the junction of Station Twelve St ("at 12") and Osceola ("at twelve paces", duellist), also confirmed by 12 and 04 on the clock (it's 1204 Middle St) and star. Trail begins with a lighthouse and ends at Stella Maris, the beginning and ending tied up by the "star of the sea" theme. From the west side Get permission To dig out. Casque is buried on the west side (where those wires are), "permission" probably being a pun on "by mission" (church) or something. WGS1984 means coors valid until 2010

Is that it? Genius! How did you find it?

erexere wrote:: I plugged in the sun position for May 1st (Historical Memorial Day) in 1980 at 4pm and the shadow on the smaller lighthouse lands across the path about 50 feet from the center of the structure.  Not sure about any of this, but I thought it looked similar to the 4pm on the sumter-clock I think the eye slits in the Sumter clock are telling us we are looking in the direction of the suns path, squinting from brightness, as we wait for the lighthouse shadow to reach our feet, standing on top of where the cask is buried.

Reviewing my data I mde a mistake as I often do.  If the sun is at an angle of 85 degrees then the shadow of the 65 foot tall lighthouse is only about 6 feet.  That's a 4pm shadow.

I think the house all the way in the right corner might be the point of interest here, white house close at hand, I just read that the 65 foot tall lighthouse was 87 feet but the optic removed for the other lighthouse. I still very much like the eight sided building as "on the eighth a scene". The story about the keeper there goes that he murdered his wife, but only confessed on his death bed years later.  It was claimed to be a suicide at the time of her death.  I wonder if there is room here for an interpretation of "Fair remuneration" as the end of the keeper's life was fair compensation for his actions.

Another white house next to an anchor at the McClellanville Museum.

This is cool, hxxp://www.postandcourier.com/photos/ga ... ses/30653/

Unknown: The first shots of the Civil War were fired at Fort Sumter in Charleston harbor just south of the Cape Romain light. Shortly after the start of the war confederate troops extinquished the light and removed the lens to prevent it's use by Union forces. As far as a civil war reference to the Light houses, "Where Law Defended", I get: This area is just about 40 miles northeast of Charleston at 33.017948N 79.3732166W

Spent most of the day thinking on this image.  The thing that works most for me is that Lions and Lighthouses both have keepers.  The other angle is the suicide spiral of a moth.  I have the Polyphemus - cyclops - lighthouse connection pretty much set in my mind.  The keeper of Cape Romain used suicide as the excuse for his wife's death.  Twins Cain and Abel - I'm not my brothers keeper - twins Edwin and Edwina ("a-twin and a-twin-a"), I think connects us strongly to the twin lighthouses near Charleston.

Doing the math on the clock angle needed some extra care, since the hour and minute hands move at different rates.  The idea of 1913 being the military time version of 7:13 is very interesting since the Sumter clock reads a time of just about 4 o'clock.  The angle of the arms at 7:13 is 138.5 degrees with respect to each other.  The clock time where the same angle is reached and the hour hand is nearest the 4 o'clock mark is between 3:56 and 3:57.  This looks nearly undisputable as a point to consider.  Verse goes with image.  138.5 degrees may be related to a sun position for the shadow we are looking for. I've included the length of the distance to the other lighthouse.  It looks like BP must've wanted to choose a time that fits the shadow length of the same distance.  Pretty cool. I didn't expect it to look like that or go in that direction.  I worked out everything under some distraction and haven't double checked my work.  I did think it through carefully before I started plugging in numbers.  Here is my accounting: Used May 1st 1980, 15:56 (almost 4pm) as my solar reference. Used 37 degree elevation, 265 degrees. Used taller lighthouse for the shadow based on the line 'between two arms extended'. Shadow length is about 200ft and that happens to be the distance between lighthouses, perhaps that coincidence lends some sense to this particular setup. Apparently the corner of a house or whats left of it is at this position. Looks like that is the 'white house at hand'.  The spot looks like it may have been right at the outside corner of the white picket fence.

Using somethings shadow to pinpoint a dig location is a little ridiculous I think.  That means that there would be only ONE day per year to dig the thing up.  Not buying it.

fox wrote:: Using somethings shadow to pinpoint a dig location is a little ridiculous I think.  That means that there would be only ONE day per year to dig the thing up.  Not buying it. Good point, but it isn't necessarily the pinpoint mechanism.  I think it is designed to narrow it down to that fence corner.  We can use any day of May in any year and have a twenty foot (im estimating) diameter circle based on the 4pm sun position.  Also, it's not based on having to be there at the time the shadow is there, it requires only a farmers almanac a pencil, and a compass would be most helpful, then you can go there any day any time. Its the fence corner.  This is looking a lot like the Chicago dig at this point...ten by thirteen sound familiar? But look at this site...it has just two short tour windows a year, mid spring and fall and it is one heck of a gnarly looking area.  Not looking fun.

Why do you think the sun's shadow has anything to do with it at all?

bigmattyh wrote:: Why do you think the sun's shadow has anything to do with it at all? The outline of a tower structure over the Charleston map and the sphere shape to the upper left of that.

So sphere = sun?

Unknown: The first known observance of a Memorial Day-type observance was in Charleston, South Carolina on May 1, 1865; freedmen (freed slaves) commemorated and celebrated at the Washington Race Course, today the location of Hampton Park. 257 Union soldiers had been buried there, and the freedmen labeled the gravesite "Martyrs of the Race Course". Yes, it's really a guess or gut feeling on this one, but the logistics and end product really look good. I just completed the math on the problem of how much variation you get depending on if you choose May 1st or May 31st and it ends up being about a 25 foot diameter circle.  There has to be some accounting for error at 200ft distance, which is why the fence corner works so well.  Also, someone might've used any old day in May, but I chose May 1st because of it's historical importance to Charleston being the original Memorial Day date. From wikipedia "Memorial Day" I just double checked my work and ended up using some more precise numbers and correctly used the 264.9 degree angle.  This is Wikimapia telling me the distance, I'd rather do this on the ground with a compass.  Here is 220 feet this time.  It has to be there, or it's by the corner of where signs of a fence were.

erexere wrote:: I just completed the math on the problem of how much variation you get depending on if you choose May 1st or May 31st and it ends up being about a 25 foot diameter circle.  There has to be some accounting for error at 200ft distance, which is why the fence corner works so well.  Also, someone might've used any old day in May, but I chose May 1st because of it's historical importance to Charleston being the original Memorial Day date. From wikipedia "Memorial Day" I just double checked my work and ended up using some more precise numbers and correctly used the 264.9 degree angle.  This is Wikimapia telling me the distance, I'd rather do this on the ground with a compass.  Here is 220 feet this time.  It has to be there, or it's by the corner of where signs of a fence were. I do not have my book with me but I am sure it says, like all other hunts I have worked on, that even a child could solve this.

It says that: "If Man is good, and kind, and playful, he and she will find them."

As an exercise I just learned how to apply the solar chart method to any specific spot or distance where a shadow could fall.  Its not math.  I just look at the tables and charts that are already plotted out.  I'm really thinking it will be worth it to purchase a 1980 Farmers Almanac, just to see what BP mightve used. Whether or not this method was used, it's real fun practicing its application.  More hunts should use it.

fox wrote:: Using somethings shadow to pinpoint a dig location is a little ridiculous I think.  That means that there would be only ONE day per year to dig the thing up.  Not buying it. But that was the solution to the original Masquerade. However, Preiss may have not known that when he created this hunt.

Im not that familiar with masquerade.  Was the idea to use sun position in that hunt obvious and the trick more about finding where to apply it? Attn, fox, and all, I know my presentation and process in handling this is non-traditional or flawed for abandoning the recommended background information.  I hope I'm at least right in my approach and if there are mistakes that they are only in the execution. My math is terribly sloppy these days.  With the clock-angle problem, I didn't catch at first that angle changes with both hands at different rates.  Maybe it sounds simple, maybe it's not, my brain was spinning just thinking about some interesting angle-time problems.  Anyways, not trying to sound defensive, it's great that I'm at least in a 33/79 lat/long vicinity. With the construction of this problem, theme lends a hand in putting my focus on "eyes of old", and then Cyclops, and then lighthouse, combined with twins, and the image clue with sphere and outline supplies me with a sun/shadow type of problem.  Anyone setting up this kind of problem would know there is lots of variation and dependency with the process.  The Sun might seem fickle, but light never lies.  And if you are going to argue that light doesn't always follow a straight line then you're going to bring up more complicated mechanics than this hunt is concerned with, like gravity and curved space.  If you don't like the Sun problem and you just make a really simplifying assumption that "between two arms extended" and the fraternal twins is just your left and right arm of equal length.  Follow a line that bisects the two lighthouses and look for a reasonable point...then you might find the fence corner where the tall lighthouse to the left is at the same distance from the shorter lighthouse to the right.  It's at least an isosceles if not an equalateral triangle.  I expect something at that point confirms in the image...but I don't know for sure what buildings were standing 30 years ago.  This place has gone straight from seed to jungle. Reengineering the problem from this fence corner gives me a specific angle and distance from the tall lighthouse.  Looking that up in the Farmer's Almanac (now don't even try to argue that is an obscure book...and if you've never bought one yourself, don't bother complaining about me not yet purchasing The Secret -I'm buying both actually) tells us a specific time and date...19:13 is the Sunset on May 17th for which the distance from lighthouse describes an angle consistent with the Sun's elevation.  The perfect execution of this selection of coordinates is very noticeable as intentional and therefore something BP mustve been proud about.  See for yourself. I've convinced myself after double and triple checking that the fence corner might not be the spot.  My latest image choice shares a much more accurate spot consistent with an equilateral triangle.  If it is at the fence post than "eye-saw-sol-ease" it is...ooh, that's a nasty little phonic-pun.

Required reading for *every* armchair treasure hunter: 1. Masquerade (Kit Williams) 2. Masquerade: The complete Book With the Answer Explained (Kit Williams) 3. Quest for the Golden Hare (Bamber Gascoigne) In that order.

I was wondering, are you implying that BP wouldn't have this method because it predates the solution to Masquerade?  I personally wasn't claiming he had taken his inspiration from Masquerade.  Have I made it look like he reinvented the wheel? I explored the biblical idea a little more with brothers keeper.  I wonder if that is a mark of the cross on the lion for this symbolism for Cain and Abel.  The basic idea of deciding how to divide a piece of property seems to work well in this scenario, hence finding the line that is equidistant to both lighthouses. Another notion I wondered about was the concept of Justice, "where law defended".  Plato's Republic delves into this rich topic with its own pair of brothers. I wonder if there is a reasoning here to utilize one of the five platonic solids as a geometric method to find the casque based on the two lighthouses.  The octahedral shape has eight sides and uses regular equalateral triangles for faces.  One strong push along these lines comes from the "mouth" with teeth on the Sumter-clock.  I found a close visual match to it a historical building called the Whalehead Club of Currituck.  It was in a severe state of neglect back in 1980, but I can totally see BP scouting it out for this hunt.  Thinking of that building as a 3-D solid and then seeing how it has been flattened into a 2-D shape with triangles around a rectangle is EXACTLY the model to apply here: Use the distance between the lighthouses as the side length 's' of a square. Perceive each lighthouse as the two adjacent sides also of length 's'.  it connects in the sky to complete the square. Use that square to connect equal triangles to all the orthogonal points and you have a an octahedron.  The next step is laying that solid flat, 2-D style, and seeing where a triangle meets near a white house. This solution doesn't use the Sun method.  Just make an eight sided solid lay flat on its face and find the point.

erexere wrote:: I was wondering, are you implying that BP wouldn't have this method because it predates the solution to Masquerade? If you like, I will imply that he wouldnt use this method-- because it doesnt match the other two solved puzzles. and while I beleive there is room for variance in the solutions, I am sure that the general methodology is the same from casque to casque

maltedfalcon wrote:: I am sure that the general methodology is the same from casque to casque I very much agree with this. This has been an exceptionally stubborn hunt.  Naturally, people are going to get more and more creative with their proposed methodology as time goes on and the casques get less and less likely to be recovered.  But if your methodology isn't very similar to the Chicago and Cleveland solves, you're very, very likely barking up the wrong tree (and seriously wasting your time).

if you wish to adopt a successful methodology you might have to expand your horizons. BP uses a triangle, a rectangle, a column in image 4.  How he uses a triangle might differ from casque to casque. I'm proposing BP uses a triangle face of an octahedron in image 2. Im wondering if image 5 used something of a spiral.

erexere wrote:: if you wish to adopt a successful methodology you might have to expand your horizons. BP uses a triangle, He used it to say Turn left at The Triangle, the name of a big shopping center. If the shopping center was named the Brontosaurus, he would have put a picture of a Brontosaurus in the image. he didnt use it for geometric or trigonometric plotting of a path. you are over thinking this.

I presented some simple ideas as well.  Looking at a situation that requires counting the same number of steps to converge on a point shouldnt be too difficult to understand. If theres a classic greek approach to one puzzle, why argue that there cant be one in another?

A predator behind a mask behind a spot-winged moth. Insects use a variety of defense mechanisms against predators.  Spots supposedly look like big eyes to help fend off predators.  This basically represents a disguise.  A mask is a disguise.  What kind of animals have disguises? Raccoons?  If this is simple enough logic, does it follow that BP is referring to the Cape Romain Lighthouses being built on the island named Raccoon Key (now known as Lighthouse Island)?

erexere wrote:: If theres a classic greek approach to one puzzle, why argue that there cant be one in another? well thats easy. each image has a different "nationality" because of where each tribe of fairys come from. did you read the book yet?

Maltedfalcon, you were suppose to recover a casque before I buy the book... Why, are you saying Egbert couldn't have found a casque with just image and verse alone? Your Brontasaurus comment was especially weak.  Either you have no appreciation for the Classical Greek world or you are a Paleontologist and you're implying that I should read the book to see the dinasaur connection... Yes, my analysis comes from just those two sources.  Are you willing to consider my verifiable results?  How much more air tight can it be to see the relationship between predator and prey, mask and face, military and time, zookeeper and lighthouse keeper, fraternal twin names and fratriciding children of Eve, an eight sided building and an eight sided platonic solid?  If 19:13 using the suns shadow didn't overlap precisely in May in the same area as described by a triangular face strictly defined by the "eyes of old" distance from each other, then I might not have believed in this myself.  We have the option to over think, but we also have the option to under think...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Is that it? Genius! How did you find it? Yes, that is it. The WWI/WWII Memorial. I cannot date it, however. Searching is fun . Let me know if you need more pics. Interestingly, the memorial is surrounded by utility boxes (all sides). You know how the green boxes usually say, "Call so and so before digging," just to check to see where lines are underneath so you don't cut them with a shovel? Get permission to dig?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Let me know if you need more pics. (Thanks - after learning what it was I found these ...now trying to contact someone on the island. I'm starting to suspect the difficulty of locating casques is nothing compared to the difficulty of trying to persuade someone to dig a hole...)

erexere wrote:: Maltedfalcon, you were suppose to recover a casque before I buy the book... Why, are you saying Egbert couldn't have found a casque with just image and verse alone? Your Brontasaurus comment was especially weak.  Either you have no appreciation for the Classical Greek world or you are a Paleontologist and you're implying that I should read the book to see the dinasaur connection... No problem -have arranged to dig again next month. No - BP said you just need  to use one image and one verse to find a casque. I was just saying the triangle was a simple landmark - nothing more. you did not need anything except the information in the image and verse. - remember he also said a child can solve these - and a child is not going to be versed in Trigonometry or projecting paths from shadows. the key to the solution is being familiar with the area the casque is hidden in. of course I will consider anything you come up with - you have put forth several really really good ideas.  at this point I am pretty sure you were the first person to suggest exactly where  I think the SF casque is.  So if two people independently come up with the same spot, its got a good chance.

you got me all riled up .. Username legionnaire posted first about that particular location in san francisco .

no I mean the exact spot -people including me have been trying out lincoln park/lands end for years... but without multiple site confirmers in the image, its just guessing. but you said "over by the tree" which is one of the dig spots I was considering, once I was on the site, I could see how much sense it made.

Unknown: - remember he also said a child can solve these - Actually, he didn't --that is not in the book.  It was, however, in Michael Stadther's books. Both of them. Turns out, however, that it wasn't true. No child actually DID solve either hunt, though one or two children helped their parents gather up the tokens in the first hunt.  The second hunt remains unsolved and unsatisfied, and if a child could solve it, it would have to be one very special child--with superpowers.

shecrab wrote:: Actually, he didn't --that is not in the book. I knew it wasnt in the book I thought he said either as a response to someones email or in one of his interviews. but I admit right now I can't find it. I thought it was when he said some are harder than others.

He never said a child could find them, to my knowledge--either in emails, on the forum or anywhere else. I dont think a child could find these. This was definitely a hunt made for someone who had the ability to reason out and solve more complex rebuses than what a child could, and what child would know the quotes from Moby Dick, or Stevenson, or the Sarmiento book? The only time I've ever read or heard that phrase was associated with Michael Stadther (who apparently has known some extremely "special" children.)

I don't get the impression this was designed for children. The phrase was also used to describe "The Merlin Mystery", which was unsolved. The solution , when published, was longer than War and Peace and made no sense at all.

I think the point is, that the solutions aren't meant to be very complex.  Meaning, keep it in the ballpark of the Chicago/Cleveland solutions.

bigmattyh wrote:: I think the point is, that the solutions aren't meant to be very complex.  Meaning, keep it in the ballpark of the Chicago/Cleveland solutions. I think that's fine and safe if you feel assured that the next solution will truly follow the same pattern.  We don't really know what's going on here.  One moment were playing T-ball, then it's kickball and pretty soon it's tackle football.

shecrab wrote:: Actually, he didn't --that is not in the book.  It was, however, in Michael Stadther's books. Both of them. Turns out, however, that it wasn't true. No child actually DID solve either hunt, though one or two children helped their parents gather up the tokens in the first hunt.  The second hunt remains unsolved and unsatisfied, and if a child could solve it, it would have to be one very special child--with superpowers. i dont want to get to O/T,but that Stadther,statement,and yours the very special child--with superpowers in the summer of 09,i meet a child that is a genius,and gave her the book of sad,she is in her freshman yr of college this yr,age 15,and still hasnt solved it, she is good in every subject,but loves math,i thought for sure she would solve it,so far no go,she did say that it might be a morse,but she hasnt found it yet go figure,IMO,its only simple if you know the answer,and im still looking LOL

erexere wrote:: I think that's fine and safe if you feel assured that the next solution will truly follow the same pattern.  We don't really know what's going on here.  One moment were playing T-ball, then it's kickball and pretty soon it's tackle football. In that case, I think it's still like playing T-ball, only the field has been unmowed for 30 years and it's only getting darker out, and you only think you should be playing football because you can't find the bases that were so obvious when the field was laid out.

I mentioned T-Ball because those are set on or next to the home plate and the globe lamps at the 2 c's look like giant T-ball.  Theme wise it doesnt follow the Paul revere or ancient historian stuff, but it does go with Fenway Park some.  "Feel at home" can then have this meaning as you stand next to a globe lamp. (Oops, forgot whiich thread I was discussing in -cross posting this ti I11)

cw0909 wrote:: i dont want to get to O/T,but that Stadther,statement,and yours the very special child--with superpowers in the summer of 09,i meet a child that is a genius,and gave her the book of sad,she is in her freshman yr of college this yr,age 15,and still hasnt solved it, she is good in every subject,but loves math,i thought for sure she would solve it,so far no go,she did say that it might be a morse,but she hasnt found it yet go figure,IMO,its only simple if you know the answer,and im still looking LOL Yeah. So much for "so easy a child could solve it," eh?

erexere wrote:: A predator behind a mask behind a spot-winged moth. Insects use a variety of defense mechanisms against predators.  Spots supposedly look like big eyes to help fend off predators.  This basically represents a disguise.  A mask is a disguise.  What kind of animals have disguises? Raccoons?  If this is simple enough logic, does it follow that BP is referring to the Cape Romain Lighthouses being built on the island named Raccoon Key (now known as Lighthouse Island)? The ears of a raccoon are shaped mich like the arches that form the eye socket and brow portion of the mask and the black patches along with eyes looks much like a moths wings.  Picking a location defined by a raccoon makes a lot of sense when artistically combining these layers.  The relationships here are characteristically intentional.

Couple things, the actual fact that I landed on mask and animal as a raccoon idea before learning Cape Romain's Lighthouse Island is called Raccoon Key is really exciting.  Secondly, I screwed up major on my Sunset at 7:13 in May statement.  I'm working on reevaluating why I came up with that wrong info. Okay, here is the way the problem should be presented, the sumter clock is under rotation, lay the image flat and rotate so Sumter is correctly aligned, look for the Gem in the illustration, its now at the top of the page in the North direction.  (this is my attempt to use cw0909 and maltedfalcons treatment of the image).  The clock hands are a clue to think of 1913 as military time for 7:13 pm.  What next?  If North is viewed as 12 o'clock, the clock hands now look like 11:40 (est.).  We can figure the exact time doing clock angle math if we are expected to apply the  1913 clue to do so.  Eventually I expect to apply a time to find a set of Sun angles. I feel that the use of a triangle in image 4 was a simple one.  I think combined with the sphere and Greek theme, Euclid and the "Triangle" apartments fit snuggly as path helpers.  Several triangles appear in thos image and it seems to me an indication of a geometric solid that has been dismantled.  Tetrahedron has 4, Octahedron has 8, Icosahedron has 20 sides made of equillateral triangles.  Where does this lead?

Hi y'all.  I'm taking 29 people down to Sullivan's island day after tomorrow to do some digging.  We have worked on this for a while and I just finished reading this thread.  I think we came up with a few little ideas I didn't see here so I thought I would share them. (honestly I couldn't read slappys posts so if they are buried in there forgive me;) We wondered if the wingless bird and last member of a forest might be a rebus...moa+tree = moultrie. Moa being the only wingless bird etc. My daughter thought the drawing of ft. Sumpter looked like home plate on a baseball "diamond" and since baseball was invented at fort moultrie and diamonds are the birthstone for April...the field south of ft moultrie is even where spring training started for a while.  Well we thought that was cool. The other interesting connection is the painting of the revolutionary battle at moultrie.  Y'all have probably seen it.  It shows sgt. Jasper climbing the last palmetto tree left south of the fort to hang up the battle flag after the British shot it down.  Well the artist is named "White".  So we kind of wondered if "Jasper" could be "white's" "stone". As for Arc of lights, we are divided between the lighthouse and the appearance of the barrier island as you cross the bridge at night with the darkness of the marsh in the foreground and the sky in the background. We plan on looking around the charleston lighthouse site too. I know specific pictures are helpful. If you have any requests I will check back here right before I leave and post them as we get them. Please forgive the long post.  I really enjoyed reading all the hard work and cool ideas.  I will post pictures if we find anything new.

Greetings Shelshock. Here's a PDF summary of my thoughts on Sullivan's Island... hxxp://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/stellamaris.pdf I'd be very interested to see some more photos of this area (especially of a newly-dug casque.) Good luck! WR

So we are coming home empty handed. A few thoughts though. The hunt is best looked into at night. The lighthouse for instance. There are two beams of light projected from the top in a v shape. The light is kept from shining back towards the land by a wall at the back of the lantern room. This definitely makes an arc of lights. There are not enough lights on the island to make a convincing arc on the land as you. Cross the bridge to the island. As for white rabbits solution it is compelling. The site looks perfect. The problem is that twelve paces puts you over the property l

... Line. The very nice lady that lives next door has Been in the house sinc the 60s and was there when the treasure was buried. According to her all the trees on the site were knocked down by Hugo and she remembers them being pines. The world war 1 and 2 memorial there was put up in the 40s or 50s and was there when bp placed the treasure.

The power poles and supports we're taken down about two years ago and replaced with buried cables. The junction boxes for these are on the site and if they are connected pass right through the area one might want to dig in if 12 paces means 12 steps. The little triangular shaped area used to be the property of ft moultrie but know is part of a little city park. Digging here should be fine except for the buried power cables. Yikes!

A thin probe goes easily through the sandy soil and reaches hard pack at about three feet. The monument sits at an angle so where to start walking is not terribly clear. The top of the monument has a chalice shaped planter with nothing in it. Could represent the lions nose but it is thicker in the middle.

Thanks for the update Shelshock.  :) I'm not entirely convinced that "at twelve paces" should be used to measure a distance. If you're walking it, it's too vague to find a position accurately, and there are several different "standardised" interpretations... hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_(unit) It might be some cryptic reference. Sounds like a duelling reference to me. Either that, or there would have to be a couple of pretty definite physical things that were about twelve paces apart. I was wondering about the casque possibly being right beside the monument, on its west side. (Granite walls...white stone...is that thing made of granite...?)

It is granite. I did not probe the area just to the west, but that does make sense. A reason to go back!  I think I'll have the power lines marked and bring a ground penetrating radar too.

I recently heard from someone planning a visit to this area in June, so get your thinking caps on...I'd still like to see that monument investigated...

(...he got bored waiting for the Admins to approve his membership so I just loaned him my logon...hope he doesn't edit out all my brilliant posts...)

I really do hate that I have not checked this one out more thoroughly... I do live right nearby. I could go there every weekend, no problem, if it weren't for the fam. Anybody want me to hit this place up soon? I think I am free every weekend this month (besides the one I visit Boston on ) I just need some well-thought out reasoning.

Lets me out.

i realize that the factual origin of the mask has been discovered, but could it be Osceola's death mask/missing head?

I am only a guest of the Rabbit but plan to check out his theory within 2 weeks - if his theory dose not pan out is there any others that need to be checked while I am there? I am going to retrace some of the hard work done here to see if I see any new thoughts on it while there but Rabbit's seems well laid out. If its a miss - I want to make good use of the time there any others that want me to check on if Rabbits dose not pan out? post here and I will check back before we go. And thanks to you Rabbit there is allot of interesting reading here and as of yet the forum admin still has not approved my own log in so thanks for the borrow as well. Happy Memorial Day.

Hello Guest of White Rabbit, I'm pursuing the idea that its an hour as the crow flies to the north east of Charleston on an island key formally known as Raccoon Key.  It's known now as Lighthouse Island and it has twin lighthouses just 200 meters apart.  They arent identical but I believe they fit the line in Verse 6 that goes "between two arms extended".  I think the symbolism behind the image of a lion behind a mask is a simple approach towards recognizing what kind of creature has a mask, a Raccoon.  I'm not at all sure how exactly we locate the casque there.  Perhaps we find the midpoint between the two towers.  The real challenge is finding transportation.  It has very few tourist trips and the area has become very rugged and dilapidated over the past 30 years.

forest_blight wrote:: Nice find, lobster411. If you're right, we walked right by the dang thing! Here is my picture: And here is a satellite view. I can see why this palmetto might be called the last standing member of a forest, since it looks isolated: There is a different way to interpret the verse. White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side ...to me means at 12 paces from the west side of the only standing member. So at 12 paces from the tree, you'll find a white stone (which you did). Get permission to dig out might mean "dig on the side for which you need to seek permission," i.e., the east side. I really think you need a probe. The sandy soil would be ideal, and you wouldn't have to dig to find out if there was anything there. My other advice is to arrive after 5:00 on a weekday and wait until no one is around. The place was pretty deserted when we went, and that was after 5:00pm on a Sunday (I think). Shelshock wrote:: The other interesting connection is the painting of the revolutionary battle at moultrie.  Y'all have probably seen it.  It shows sgt. Jasper climbing the last palmetto tree left south of the fort to hang up the battle flag after the British shot it down.  Well the artist is named "White". Hi there guest-of-rabbit... Thinking about other possibilities, here's Forest's comments on an earlier visit to this area... General thoughts that occur to me are: a) I still like the area around Stella Maris and the war memorial as previously set out. I've always been curious about whether the path beside it has paving slabs, and if so, whether the "twelve paces" might be anything to do with counting slabs. I'm dubious about whether "walk twelve paces from here" is accurate enough to be a useful way to pinpoint a casque, unless it takes you from one solid thing to another solid thing. I'd also be interested in a photo of the church organ if you happen to drop by, to see if this image-match suggestion has any basis in reality...(that's just a random picture of a church organ, not the actual one.) b) Digging on NPS ground, or at the foot of trees, seems pretty dodgy, but I wouldn't rule anything out, and there is that curious line about "permission" after all. Regarding this tree and rock shown above - if we were to consider those as alternative candidates for the the "white stone" and the "only standing member of a forest", and if they're twelve paces apart, there's some ambiguity about which might be the spot, and which side the casque might be on. I'm not exactly sure where people tried digging before. c) I'm also curious about the end of the road on the coast, with the car parking spot, in the top left of the above photo, partly because the butterfly's wings resemble this kind of shoreline, and the image includes something a bit like a pair of sunglasses. There are various signs down that road there - "at twelve" (Station 12 St). It would be interesting to get some photos of those and see what's on them. If one of them included the word "permission", for example, that could be pretty significant. (Byron liked pulling random words off signs and tucking them into the verses.) I don't remember anyone having mentioned going there. Considering one of Shelshock's comments... ...I was wondering whether Palmetto St on the other side of Fort Moultrie could be another possibility for "the only standing member of a forest"...? There are more signs "to the south" or at the south end of it, which might contain "permission" or other keywords. (I still kind of like the "lion's eye tower" you can see at this point.)

Unknown: n 1775, Colonel William Moultrie was asked by the Revolutionary Council of Safety to design a flag for the South Carolina troops to use during the American Revolutionary War. Moultrie's design had the blue of the militia's uniforms and the crescent from the emblem on their caps. This flag was flown in the defense of a new fortress on Sullivan's Island, when Moultrie faced off against a British fleet that hadn't lost a battle in a century. In the 16 hour battle on June 28, 1776, the flag was shot down, but Sergeant William Jasper ran out into the open, raising it and rallying the troops until it could be mounted again. This gesture was so heroic, saving Charleston, South Carolina, from conquest for four years, that the flag came to be the symbol of the Revolution, and liberty, in the state and the new nation. Soon popularly known as either the Moultrie Flag or Liberty Flag, it became the standard of the South Carolina militia, and was presented in Charleston, by Nathaniel Greene, when that city was liberated at the end of the war. Greene described it as having been the first American flag to fly over the South. The palmetto tree was added in 1861, also a reference to Moultrie's defense of Sullivan Island; the fortress he'd constructed had survived largely because the palmetto trees, laid over sand walls, were able to withstand British cannons. Incidentally, someone once suggested that the image hinted at the flag of South Carolina, with the crescent shadow at the base of the pear... I've only just realised how closely this flag is associated with Sullivan's Island, Fort Moultrie, and the Palmetto. It was known as the "Moultrie Flag", and its history also includes Fort Sumter. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_South_Carolina

A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight Perhaps this is a bit far-fetched, but I've previously wondered if the "wingless bird" and the flying woman in the picture might relate to the figure of Mary that stands atop Stella Maris. (Trivia corner: Osceola was imprisoned at St Augustine in Florida before being taken to Fort Moultrie. "Juan Ponce de Leon" means "John punched the lion".)

Unknown: In 1829 a structure was built on what is now Marion Square in downtown Charleston to house arms and ammunition, federal troops from nearby Fort Moultrie began guarding the new state assnal in 1830 and in 1832 they were replaced by state militia. Over the next 10 years assnals throughout the state were consolidated in Charleston and Columbia; Governor John Richardson eventually proposed converting both into military academies and on December 20, 1842, the South Carolina Legislature passed an Act "to convert the assnal at Columbia, and the citadel and magazine in and near Charleston, into Military Schools" thereby transforming the two State assnals into the South Carolina Military Academy. Unknown: Father Patrick McGowan, a priest on the staff of the Diocese and himself an Irish immigrant, organized the construction of the Church of St. John the Baptist on Sullivan's Island. A lot was purchased in April of 1845, slightly to the west of the present church. The church, a small wooden building, was completed later that summer. The first Mass was said in June, 1845, just two days before the Feast of St. John the Baptist. The Church of St. John the Baptist remained in place through the War Between the States. Sullivan's Island, the home of Fort Moultrie, suffered extensive bombardment by Federal troops, and by the end of the war, in 1865, the church was the only public building left standing on the island. Father Timothy Bermingham, the Vicar General of the Diocese of Charleston, took up Sullivan's Island as a special project in the late 1860s. He first planned to rehabilitate the old church. By 1868, however, Father Bermingham developed the idea that a new church building should be the centerpiece for a restoration of Sullivan's Island as a popular resort. Father Bermingham bought the present church lot in October, 1868, for $100. He secured permission from the Secretary of War to use bricks from the ruins of Fort Moultrie to build the new church. Here's some random brainstorming on Image 2 / Verse 5. Lane Two twenty two Station 22 and 22-and-a-half St...? Bit random though. I once suggested that one of the things people might have associated with "Two twenty two" is an old comedy TV series called Room 222. One of the main characters was Richie Lane. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_222 hxxp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0688618/ But the only connection there I can see is that it's set at Walt Whitman High School, and Whitman wrote a poem about Osceola . Quite a stretch. You'll see an arc of lights I think that's a decent enough clue for a lighthouse. Once you've got Charleston from the map and the lat/long, that narrows it down to about three. Weight and roots extended Together saved the site It's been suggested that this describes the value of the palmetto logs in defending Fort Moultrie. "Roots extended" is a very odd way of referring to "logs" - they're not, really. "Weight" is pretty odd as well, though I noticed that Moultrie had sand-filled walls, so I guess "weight" might possibly tie in with "sand" via balloon ballast. Of granite walls OK, so Sumter and Moultrie have plenty of granite. (Stella Maris was built with stone raided from the fort.) Wind swept halls I've never understood what this was about. It could possibly be something in Poe, but no quotation has been found. Citadel in the night Probably a reference to Charleston's Military College of South Carolina and its logo. More Moultrie connections there...(this dumb forum changes a*r*s*e*n*a*l into "assnal"...) A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight I'm happy with The Balloon Hoax for this. Apparently it was based on The Moon Hoax , the illustrations for which might have been another possible source of inspiration for wonder-woman. (Ezra Pound used the phrase "ancient dreams of flight" in an essay called "The Wisdom of Poetry" - may also occur elsewhere. See P57 here .) Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south I've been wondering how people might have interpreted some of these lines seeing them for the first time. The southernmost National forests in the US are in Florida; eg Ocala and Osceola. Here are some notes on the history of Stella Maris: hxxp://www.catholic-doc.org/stellamaris/history.html I previously wondered if the "only standing member" might refer to this church at 1204 Osceola, as the only building left standing at one time; though I now see this was an earlier building, nearby, but not exactly the same. Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side Get permission To dig out These directions are horribly ambiguous. I'd like to test the interpretation: "Get permission to dig out from the west side of the white stone", but I can't really explain the twelve paces. I've previously suggested it reminds me of duelling, "pistols at twelve paces", and Osceola fought duels, eg see here . But that doesn't make much of a clue for Osceola (and that one was fought at another common distance of ten paces), so maybe it does literally mean take twelve paces. But from where to where, and in what direction, I dunno. I've come across a couple of references on Google to suggest that twelve paces could be taken as twelve yards. Could the memorial be "twelve paces" striding from the church...? You could then have: Beneath the only standing member Of a forest Church on Osceola. To the south White stone closest At twelve paces White stone 12 paces south. From the west side Get permission To dig out Get permission to dig out from the west side of this white stone.

ive been stuggling with those paces since the 80s,maybe BP meant PACE= 1foot or what most have said on the net,avg 4.5-5ft = a pace What is a pace? A pace is equivalent to, two natural steps. Starting with your right foot as the first step, when your left foot hits the ground you can count that as one pace How many feet are in a pace? The average length in feet of a pace will vary between people and will also vary across different types of terrain. Most people will have a pace somewhere around 4.5 to 5 feet hxxp://www.backcountryattitude.com/pacing.html more pace pace [1] a traditional unit of distance equal to the length of a person's "full" pace, that is, the distance between two successive falls of the same foot. Thus one pace equals two steps. The Romans counted 1000 paces in a mile with each pace being a little over 58 inches (or about 148 centimeters). In English speaking countries, the pace is usually defined to be exactly 5 feet (or 152.4 centimeters); this unit is also called the great pace or geometrical pace. Obviously, a good metric version of the pace is exactly 1.5 meters. pace [2] in military use, the term "pace" is often used as an alternate name for the step; see military pace. military pace another name for a step. In the U.S. Army, the military pace is defined to be exactly 30 inches (76.2 centimeters) for ordinary "quick time" marching and 36 inches (91.44 centimeters) for double time marching. The same definitions are generally used by marching bands. hxxp://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictP.html hxxp://www.ces.ncsu.edu/forestry/pdf/WON/won39.pdf hxxp://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/for/for47/for47.htm

cw0909, I always assumed that a pace is one "walking step" or stride. (I could be wrong.) If you use 2 steps for a pace, that makes the Milwaukee clue entirely different. AP (I like your illustration... )

Yeah, considering they also occur in Milwaukee, I guess it would be pretty unreasonable for BP to expect someone to measure paces other than by a typical step. You can't really imagine someone "striding" for 100 paces.

{moved}

animal painter wrote:: cw0909, I always assumed that a pace is one "walking step" or stride. (I could be wrong.) If you use 2 steps for a pace, that makes the Milwaukee clue entirely different. AP (I like your illustration... ) how much dif do you think,maybe 2Xs what you had b4 i did my driveway my measure was 231/2 paces,the 2 foot fall count and going with the 5ft,117.5 ft, taped measured 118ft and i walk with a slight limp,left leg

White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side I've always been suspicious of that "closest". Maybe it could be "close St", or "close to the street". Twelve paces from the west side of the street...? I'd like to know what was on this sign beside Fort Moultrie at the bottom of Station 12 St., and whether there's any white stones down that way. The Twelfth Station is where JC died on the cross. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stations_of_the_Cross There aren't many actual "lanes" on Sullivan's island. Sea Breeze Lane is near the church. Doubt if it's suitable, but can't really make it out. Sullivan's Island has these markers all over the place that look like they might be white stone. Or are they wood? Street signs I suppose; I haven't been able to read the writing on any of them... I'm completely open-minded about this really; open to radical theories. It might not be right next to the monument. It might be several feet away from it.  ;D Maybe you could take 12 paces from that white stone "street marker" by the monument shown above, and see where that gets you. Is this about 12 paces...?

Here's another of those "white stones" (?) It says "Middle" and "Sta 11" (intersection of Middle St and Station 11 St). You could find examples saying "Poe", "L'on", "Palmetto", and other street names that might possibly be relevant. That means the one by the monument shown above, or nearby, must say "STA 12" "White stone close st At 12"...? Overview showing "street marker" stone, monument, and possible wire confirmer beside Stella (star) Maris, 1204 Osceola. (I'm not repeating myself am I?) The daisy petals remind me of those white marker stones. (I'd say there were 17 petals. Station 17 is at the end of L'on.)

Hi - Guest of White Rabbit here again. I have been here all week at Sullivan's island. The organ in the church was not here when BP came via the Father or is at the church but he says where the bell ringing area is now there use to be some pipes that resembled whats in the puzzle picture that we are comparing to the organ. Also as another possible only member of a forest to the south in the church yard is a salt cedar - its branch's or needles look allot like the ones in the picture and its not a native tree to here its imported from Africa(more to the south than here) Some may think its an only standing member as its the only one in this area and was here when BP may have been here. The sign at the end of middle street on the beech is a warning not to swim to the left of it due to strong riptides. Yes the street marker is at the tip of the park across from the church and says Osceola one side sta 12 on one side and middle on the other (3 streets meet here) and they were here when bp came and are always white. Using a pace as 30 inch up to 36 I worked a radius to the west side of this stone to no luck I did the same to the ww2 memorial -it puts you just on the edge of the park and the lady's property next door - no luck with that either. I also checked right beside them as White Rabbit requested - sorry no luck - the ground here ends at around 2ft depth in a bed of shell so this in some ways made the search easier but I hit a lot of shells and had to check them out to see they were only shells. Osceolas grave is across the street at an angle and next to it is a tall white memorial there(list names of those who died in a ship here) is room to go out the paces but the park service said that's a no-go- they would not allow me to check the ground anywhere near it but it fits the puzzle. The same with the tree behind the fort or on the water side - that palmetto tree was not likely here when bp came and Hugo the hurricane knocked out most of the area trees but even so its still on the forts land and they wont let me check it - look yes take pictures yes probe with a rod - not this trip. I will be here 3 more days if any other ideas come up for me to check. And when I get back home I have several pictures from the area to put up maybe it will help some one else out (if its not resolved in 3 days-lol). the Father at the church is very interested in the puzzle and gave me permission to check or dig anywhere on the property while here but there is not a white stone on the church yard only across the street at the small park. I also tried going true west of the two markers instead of just west side - no-go on that as well did not locate the treasure desired. Looked up the picture and story about the artist named white who painted the scene with the flag - its not a tree standing or last tree but a rod used to pack the guns he tied the flag to it in the painting and tried to raise it but I will try to get a picture of the white marker you pointed out on the beach beyond the palmetto tree so that we at least know whats there. The windswept halls fit the fort as its hallways are open and some when blocked are only blocked by bars  and the wind sweeps through them. The forts actual walls are brick it has been rebuilt 3 times. The Stella Marris church was built with bricks from the 2nd  Ft Moultrie. Following the theme in threads about the two found in each picture they each show the exact spot in the puzzle picture - I can not see anything in the picture that resembles that small park. I do notice the face on the right side of picturewhere eye glass looking image is & also the cross in lines mane on the left looks like its part of a necklace around a face on that side - Has anyone else noticed that? and if so what do you make of it - very hidden not as obvious as other clues. I will check back for more help or ideas later today & thanks for lettingme be a part of this.

Unknown: Initially, a massive battery for three 12-inch breech-loading rifles (BLR) on gun lift carriages was projected for construction at Fort Sumter in the early 1890s.  Funds in the amount of $75,000 were appropriated and Captain Fredric V. Abbot began preliminary work that consisted of soil test boring on the old parade ground of the historic fortification.  The test bores suggested to Abbot that the site could not support the weight and size of the projected battery by resting its foundations on pilings.  It was Abbot's opinion that a battery erected at Fort Sumter would have to be founded upon a grillage floated on the surface soil. Abbot also made repairs to the fort's scarp in preparation to the projected battery construction. Hey, thanks for all your work on this! Brainstorming, brainstorming... Sullivan's Island definitely has the African connection. Perhaps I've been too wrapped up in the search for "visual clues" in the image. We still can't know for sure whether some of these puzzles rely on visual clues, but the evidence so far is that the picture gives an area, but the verse gives the location. In New Orleans, for instance, there are convincing visual clues all over the place, in several different parks. The only thing we can be sure of from that picture is that it's somewhere in New Orleans. Likewise, I'm starting to think that this is probably in Sullivan's Island somewhere, but even if the Moultrie and Stella Maris "clues" are valid and intentional, they might just be "Sullivan's Island" clues. So, I've been going back to the verse, and trying to figure out what the verse is talking about. The problem is that the verses can apparently identify different random locations in the same way as the pictures. For instance, the Roanoke verse seems to quote from different signs that are quite far apart with no obvious trail. ...and on the subject of "trails", some verses seem to follow quite a lengthy joined-up route (eg Milwaukee) while others just reference various nearby things, in no particular logical order (Chicago). So...hmm.  :P Somewhere in the verse are lines which tell us about a particular location. I think the "street name" stones are a new and interesting possible candidate for the "white stone", and I've come round to thinking of the "twelve paces" as 12 simple, literal steps. The verse definitely seems to reference the lighthouse ("arc of lights"), so that area might be worth exploring. Street markers near the lighthouse...? We also think there are Poe references in the verse, and the Poe library is near the lighthouse. L'on (Lion?) ave runs past it. Perhaps the lighthouse itself could be considered "white stone". I'm always drawn to fences. Eg, is this fence 12 paces west of this white stone...? Re: "two twenty two", Sullivan's Island historical site #222 is an 1890 school at 2014 Central Ave. Doesn't look very interesting though. I'm still puzzled about "Lane", and there might be something in the "Abbot" acrostic we haven't figured out yet. A wingless bird ascended B orn of ancient dreams of flight B eneath the only standing member O f a forest T o the south Could this be Captain Abbot...? hxxp://groups.yahoo.com/group/CoastDefe ... 7878?var=0 I think this was Frederic Vaughan Abbot, the son of Henry Larcom Abbot, though I'm not 100% sure. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Larcom_Abbot (Henry was big in submarines; possible tie-in with HL Hunley or something...? Seems to have been a famous sub launched off Sullivan's Island. Starting to drift away from the clue though, if it is a clue.) The pendant undoubtedly references Sumter. The shape also vaguely suggests the fence surrounding this triangular lighthouse. * Whimsy alert * Africa's diamond, earth-born star Bright harvest of the midnight rock Stella Maris, Star of the Sea...lighthouse... "Flag" as red, amber, green traffic lights... "...ancient dreams of light..." "Dark glasses" in pic. This thing was very bright. Too bright - they had to turn it down to stop annoying people. hxxp://www.lighthousefriends.com/light.asp?ID=334 * * * * * I'm concerned about encouraging you to spend your vacation chasing buried treasure. Make sure you get some sunbathing in.  8)

I know 32/79 are the lat/long, but how about this... (Image 1 "crossover clue"...? They're on opposite sides of the same page.) It's another possible "white stone" at Moultrie. hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMB1 ... _Island_SC

Re: "Lane two twenty two", you arrive on Sullivan's Island via Station 22-and-a-half St, and see signs like this. Maybe it's "to twenty two".

Here's where that "32" stone is apparently located... Flag sign circled, 32 stone marked with a cross. (Just realised this is the "property marker" stone that people looked at before, discussed on P13 of this thread. It's a good stone, though I don't know exactly where people dug, or their reasoning.)

TEL wrote:: Notice the picture with the colors that match what is in the puzzle? look at the bottom left corner Ft Sumter may have that shape now so many say its Ft Sumter as an area landmark but then why the 3 stripe colors on the one in puzzle - was it to lead you to this sign that shows FT Moultrie was rebuilt 3 times the 2nd ft Moultrie has the same shape as the pendant in the puzzle. TEL (aka "the guest") has had an email to say that his application to join Q4T has been rejected. (?) But he kindly emailed me some photos from his recent visit. Taking another look at the flag and the book side by side...I'm not sure they're all that similar after all. I guess it still could be a representation of it though - it's the closest thing anyone's found.

As I recall, if you face that sign from the direction where the bars in the flag *do* match up with the mask, you face that single tree in the distance.  I think it's one of the more promising leads there is, despite the fact that no casque was ever found in a couple of dig attempts.

bigmattyh wrote:: As I recall, if you face that sign from the direction where the bars in the flag *do* match up with the mask, you face that single tree in the distance.  I think it's one of the more promising leads there is, despite the fact that no casque was ever found in a couple of dig attempts. Unknown: I went today and found nothing.  We dug 4 feet deep over an area of about 16 square feet.  This took 4 hours.  This is the area where the casque would have been expected to be.  Possible reasons the casque was absent include: The casque is actually under the tree lobster411 wrote:: Beneath the only standing member of a forest to the south of the fort, there is a white stone at twelve paces.  On the west side, get permission to dig out. forest_blight wrote:: The upshot is that the treasure could be (a) on the NPS side of the white stone or (b) 12 paces west of the tree, ignoring the stone altogether. These are different because the stone isn't exactly due west (as the raven flies!). Pacing off a treasure location was likely a deliberate play on the fact that Poe's "The Gold Bug" - one of the best treasure hunting stories ever - was set on Sullivan's Island, and pacing off locations is a classic part of unearthing buried pirate treasure Hirudiniforme wrote:: Anybody want me to hit this place up soon? ...yep, would agree with that. I'd be interested to get hold of some pics of this area with the tree and the stone, and an explanation of exactly where they tried, which isn't at all clear... Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side Get permission To dig out Difficult to get your head round this. There's the idea of the stone and the tree, and one being in a certain direction from the other...and there's also the idea of the casque being buried to one side of something. It could mean, buried to the south of a tree, which would be very like Milwaukee's "at its southern foot the treasure waits". Although I've resisted the idea of casques being buried at the base of trees, I have to admit that's the simplest interpretation of these verses. That way the white stone would just be an identifier for the tree. Thinking out loud here... To be honest, it's difficult to interpret it any other way. Working backwards from the end, I'd been thinking of another way of looking at it as digging out the casque from the west side of the white stone... ...but that way "beneath the only standing member of a forest" wouldn't make much sense unless it was another way of saying "to the south of the only standing member of a forest", like, on a map. I then wondered if the "only standing member of a forest" could be a metaphor for something else, like Stella Maris. But it's a bit of a stretch. Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south I was thinking that the white stone at Moultrie can't be said to be "beneath" a tree which is 25 steps east. But then, taking another look at the above map, I guess the stone is southwest of the tree, so it's "beneath" in that map way, where beneath=south. Still a bit of a stretch. So...I guess I'm reluctantly returning to that tree. I'm not sure that anyone has actually tried digging by that. Since it's so difficult to get permission to dig round that area it'll probably take ground penetrating radar to check it. In The Gold Bug, as I remember, the spot where the treasure was buried was measured off from a tree. This also resembles Milwaukee in using "paces" to measure distances. In this Moultrie theory, a pace was two steps, though paces could also mean steps. I suppose another possibility might be twelve steps west from the tree...? Perhaps between the tree and the stone...? Maybe there's an overlooked clue in the image. Go for it. Can you hire a GPR? Maybe we could have a whip-round.  ;)

Unknown: Geodetic survey markers were often set in groups. For example, in triangulation surveys, the primary point identified was called the triangulation station, or the "main station". It was often marked by a "station disk" (see upper photo at left), a brass disk with a triangle inscribed on its surface and an impressed mark that indicated the precise point over which a surveyor's plumb bob should be dropped to assure a precise location over it. A triangulation station was often surrounded by several (usually three) reference marks(see second photo at left),[3] each of which bore an arrow that pointed back towards the main station. These reference marks made it easier for later visitors to "recover" (or re-find) the primary ("station") mark. Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side Get permission To dig out OK, how about this. The only standing member of a forest is that tree. There's a white stone "Beneath...to the south"; to the southwest, though mainly west, walking past the sign with the flag and the pendant fort pic. Take twelve paces (pace = two steps) west from the tree and arrive at the stone. This stone has stern injunctions on it about not disturbing it on penalty of fine or imprisonment. But you're convinced it's right because of stuff like this... You don't want to risk jail, so you get permission to dig, right there, by the stone, as approached from the tree. Has anyone tried that spot? I don't know what it looks like from the ground, from that angle. Would be great to see a pic. It would be a pretty crazy place to bury a casque. Here's another of these markers which shows the missing text. Wikipedia article on these things here - hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_marker (Plumb bobs feature in The Gold Bug. In Poe's story, the "gold bug" of the title - a gold beetle which gets confused with a skull - was used, on a length of string, instead of a piece of lead, to find the treasure; reminiscent of the pendant perhaps.) The diamond has a kind of blue circle with triangular shards which might suggest the disk. There are also blue circles in the butterfly wings. If he'd wanted to include a confirmer for the disk, though, he could have made it a heck of a lot more obvious without giving much away until you found it.

Tel wrote:: When you look at the image if you think that the artist 1st painted a beach scene then continued into the final image - look to the right and left of the lions face - I can sort of see a image of a place but cant make it out completely. Can you see it?? think clouds in sky in the back then waves on a beach then a place and see on the right side of the mane what looks like a pier as it is a short section then angles up then continues - sort of like the beach access ramps at Sullivan's island can you see it? Some pics from Tel's recent visit -

here is an image of a unique tree on the stella marris church grounds - it may be the only standing member - it was imported from Africa & that fits the pictures theme plus it look a little like the branches in the puzzel - I hope this dose not double post as this is the guest of White Rabbit and the 1st time it said my file size was too big . I explored the theory that this may be the standing member but only explored it a little. Maybe someone here can see more.

here is a close up of the salt cedars branch. My original thought was Osceolas grave was the member and that the white marker of those who died in a ship is to its south side and 12 paces to the west is still on the grounds of Ft Moultrie - but try as I did I could not get permission to even probe with a rod just to check my therory.

I'm working with some different ideas here. Idiom: assuming the mantle Edwina is Edwin's daughter.  After Edwin's passing, Edwina took on the responsibility of preserving his legacy and contribution to art and African American history. Idiom: like a moth to the flame A dangerous attraction or natural predilection towards something such as a moth to the flame of a candle or a lemming to a cliff (forgive the misconception) or even a wife to an abusive husband. Reading between the lines (verse and image), mantle and mantel, cape and fireplace. Freedom at the birth of a century:  the convention that we are accustomed to in referring to centuries, 19th century or 20th century, stems from the first 100 years after Year 1, which is a reference to the first year of our Lord, or the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth.  Freedom in this perspective can only be about the release of a man in prison for murder: Barabas. Barabas = avoids a murder conviction = keeper Andrew Johnson, who's wife was ruled a suicide when in fact, upon his death-bed, confessed her murder.

As always, I've been comparing clue types found in the various pictures. One that stuck out to me was the use of overlayed images that work together, kinda like on that show classic concentration. Examples include the crossbow and archway in I3 (Fletcher and the Elizabethan Gardens entrance), the L and the bell in I4 (Liberty Blvd), and the millstone, walking stick, and key in I10 (Mil-Wau-kee). Although, I guess this proposition is a little more akin to the I3 "solve": The hooks on this image have always bothered me: Well, much like fletchers make arrows, fisherman make/use hooks. So I Googled "Fisher Charleston", and the first link hit the spot (a wikipedia entry for Lavinia Fisher). Where was she held... the Old Jail in Charleston, famous for housing the worst pirates. Tales cruel and bold came outta that place, no doubt. I thought it coincidental that the clues could be used much in the same way as in I3, a name and a place overlayed/adjacent in the images. The verse (V6) begins...Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old ...also drawing our focus to the eyes. Also coincidental is that the jail has a massive octogonal wing (eighth?), covered with earthquake bolts, that was built by Barbot and Seyle (bar that binds... bar and seal?)

I like that creativity.  Fisher could also be Fischer, right?

erexere wrote:: I like that creativity.  Fisher could also be Fischer, right? It could be many things, it could be nothing.

I'm drawn to the simple observation of the female form combined with a common term description that is the pear-shape.  The narrow upper portion followed by the wider lower portion.  woman + pear = shape description.  The 1827 Cape Romain lighthouse is narrow on top and wide at bottom as is true of most lighthouses.

erexere wrote:: I'm drawn to the simple observation of the female form combined with a common term description that is the pear-shape.  The narrow upper portion followed by the wider lower portion.  woman + pear = shape description. I am at a loss on this one... Do you really think BP would insinuate woman are pear shaped and that we need to make that connection as part of solving a clue?

This is art 101.  The pear shape is well documented and utilized in art and architecture. I am not insinuating the female form and a pear have the commonality of shape, the art world has already drawn that conclusion.  I'm not saying ALL women are pear shaped.  I'm just saying there's a pear and a woman in image 2, and in terms of art, the best inference is that we might be smart to look for some pyriform type visual clue.  The lighthouse is an example of a pyriform which is a shape something between a cyllinder and a cone (geometry 101).

erexere wrote:: This is art 101.  The pear shape is well documented and utilized in art and architecture. I am not insinuating the female form and a pear have the commonality of shape, the art world has already drawn that conclusion.  I'm not saying ALL women are pear shaped.  I'm just saying there's a pear and a woman in image 2, and in terms of art, the best inference is that we might be smart to look for some pyriform type visual clue.  The lighthouse is an example of a pyriform which is a shape something between a cyllinder and a cone (geometry 101). i understand art 101 and geometry 101, but "man does not make reference to pear-shaped woman" is reason 101. his target audience includes many pear shaped, self-conscious women - psychology 101. don't ostracize your readers - writing 101.

Put you're osteriches away now.  I see you're point where it's not politically correct to bring attention to a person's body shape, but I personally don't see the term as derogatory and I don't know how it would've been inappropriate in 1982.  People nowadays are more armed and ready when it comes to bodily reference, that's for sure. Something to be considered is the bold-all-taboos-aside freedom which comes with art and it's interpretation. I liked looking at this treasure hunt from a Classicism perspective.  Here's a nice article about the pear: hxxp://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/pearinhistory.pdf

Should  it be important to make a distinction in what type of mask this is?  I'm very curious to know if we can include Pygmy tribal mask as a possible consideration.  It might then be a rebus for pygmy + lion = Pygmalion aka My Fair Lady (hint from line "Waits the Fair remuneration). The Greek myth about Pygmalion where he falls in like love with his sculpture which is then brought to life by Venus might be in this reference or something to do with a woman who would be accepted into a higher than expected social setting...or a reference to the slang usage of the term "bloody".

hxxp://www.vub.ac.be/BIBLIO/nieuwenhuys ... -masks.htm There are masks which might represent a pygmy, there aren't masks from the pygmy tribes. But isnt this kind of trying to shoehorn a clue to fit an idea, rather than follow the clues to a solution?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side I've always been suspicious of that "closest". Maybe it could be "close St", or "close to the street". Twelve paces from the west side of the street...? I'd like to know what was on this sign beside Fort Moultrie at the bottom of Station 12 St., and whether there's any white stones down that way. The Twelfth Station is where JC died on the cross. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stations_of_the_Cross There aren't many actual "lanes" on Sullivan's island. Sea Breeze Lane is near the church. Doubt if it's suitable, but can't really make it out. Sullivan's Island has these markers all over the place that look like they might be white stone. Or are they wood? Street signs I suppose; I haven't been able to read the writing on any of them... I'm completely open-minded about this really; open to radical theories. It might not be right next to the monument. It might be several feet away from it.  ;D Maybe you could take 12 paces from that white stone "street marker" by the monument shown above, and see where that gets you. Is this about 12 paces...? I am new...I have been waiting on admin approval for the forum, but have used a guest login to browse through a few of the threads awhile back... White...I can go down anytime to grab some shots of this sign (or any sign for that matter)-I live and work in and around Charleston, and am game to go gather information!

tjgrey wrote:: I am new...I have been waiting on admin approval for the forum, but have used a guest login to browse through a few of the threads awhile back... White...I can go down anytime to grab some shots of this sign (or any sign for that matter)-I live and work in and around Charleston, and am game to go gather information! Greetings TJ! Nice to have you aboard. The treasure in your city is quite the enigma. Hopefully we can crack the case. If you are ever in the area, would you mind taking pics of the area below? I think there might be something of interest there.

rookhunter wrote:: Greetings TJ! Nice to have you aboard. The treasure in your city is quite the enigma. Hopefully we can crack the case. If you are ever in the area, would you mind taking pics of the area below? I think there might be something of interest there. Thanks! And not a problem! I will keep you posted on when I get down there! And a few posts back, the tower structure was brought up (probably again) on the forehead of the mask. I ran across this, and it reminded me of the shape if one were to look at the lighthouse at the right angle.

Hi tjgrey, and welcome (back) to the forum. My favourite location for this casque is still somewhere in this area, but, I just don't know where.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Hi tjgrey, and welcome (back) to the forum. My favourite location for this casque is still somewhere in this area, but, I just don't know where. Thanks Rabbit! Good to be back! And, yes, if following the 5th (I believe) verse, yes, I would have to agree...So much seems to point to that island, and the fort specifically. Has anyone actually dug behind the WWII memorial, or has it just been probed? I was doing some distance marking from the web (so take it for what it's worth until I drive over there), but was trying to pinpoint where 12 paces (roughly 30 feet, if that is in agreement by some/all) was to check. I have been trying to look at the verse(es) more literally rather than looking too much into each line for a change...

bigmattyh wrote:: The rate that these sites are changing and/or deteriorating, is far outpacing the rate at which actual progress is being made on the hunt.  Unless something changes, it is getting extremely unlikely that any more casques will be found. Here's a general ramble/recap on where I'm at with this one. Unfortunately I'd have to agree with Bigmatty that: When I put together my notes on Sullivan's Island... hxxp://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... amaris.pdf ...the area with the war memorial seemed a secluded, undisturbed spot. But revisiting on Google Maps it seems to have changed a lot even over the past couple of years...the cables I once saw as a possible confirmer are gone, there are large new green electrical installations and buried cables. I kind of hope it's not there now, although I still like it, and the ground directly beside the memorial is probably still untouched. But...digging next to a war memorial; digging next to a boundary marker that warns of fines and imprisonment; digging next to a tree; these all seem a bit unlikely to me. On the other hand, it seems to me that "twelve paces" away from one of these is too vague to be a clear instruction on where to dig...isn't it...? I don't know. I'd really like something more definite. Here are some updated notes on these two "white stone" candidates. hxxp://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... stones.pdf In the vicinity of the church, I’m also interested in the white “Osceola” street marker near the memorial, and an African tree in the church grounds someone mentioned as the “only standing member of a forest”. (The part of the introduction relating to this puzzle goes on about African trees.) If we could find a white granite wall that it was possible to dig next to, that might account for the “granite walls” in the verse, as well as the “white stone”. It doesn’t have to be “a white stone”, it could just be “white stone (wall)”. If I was going on a photo-taking tour of this area, I’d like to see: 1) Pics showing the area around the boundary stone…I’ve never seen a general overview around this area. 2) Pics showing the area at the bottom of 12th Station St. I feel this road is significant, with the white-tipped hour hand in the image pointing at 12, and the litany entry mentioning midnight. 3) Pics showing the back of the church, next to the parking lot. Anywhere to dig in the church grounds…? We know it’s not buried in a graveyard, but we also know we apparently need to ask permission to dig so perhaps it’s private. I’d also like to see exactly where this African tree is. 4) Some close-ups of the war memorial from different sides.

New pics from Moultrie...

Polyphemus moth.  Polyphemus was blinded by Odysseus.  If this is meant to symbolize a lighthouse, then a lighthouse where its lamp was relocated to the newer lighthouse at Cape Romain makes even better sense given that the result is that its now blind.

I've had a nagging suspicion that Image 2 has something to do with "hunting and gathering" given the large predator and the vulnerability of the lepidoptera woman.  The tribal mask might be an indication of 'hunting' as well.  The "tags" in the shape of Sumter could be hunting tags.  The pear fruit could represent harvest gathering, although it's not the killing a creature sort. I found a gruesome story today on Wikipedia about lynching.  The only existing photo of a woman being lynched was of Luara Nelson .  This occured in the month of May in 1911.  If only it were 1913, then I'd think it might fit the line in verse 6, but it does support the idea that lynching was a concern during that time.  The pear hanging from the branch could be symbolic of lynching.  The wiki article mentioned Woody Gutherie wrote songs about the topic.  "Strange Fruit" was a song performed by Billy Holiday.  The "Sumter on a chain" may be symbolic of lynching as well since it looks like a face dangling from a neck-chain.  The Laura Nelson lynching happened in Oklahoma, but may be considered a matter of national attention, so I'm not concerned that it didn't fit directly with Charleston.  Perhaps there is some lynchings related to Charleston, and that might align with this idea.  Where it leads directly, I still have no idea.  Just an idea to chew on for the moment.

Unknown: Soon after the commutation, on August 17, 1915, a group of 25 men, described by peers as “sober, intelligent, of established good name and character“ stormed the prison hospital where Leo Frank was recovering from having his throat slashed by a fellow inmate. They kidnaped Frank, drove him more than 100 miles to Mary Phagan's hometown of Marietta, Georgia, and hanged him from a tree. Frank conducted himself with dignity, calmly proclaiming his innocence. Townsfolk were proudly photographed beneath Frank's swinging corpse, pictures still valued today by their descendants. More to do with lynching. In May of 1913, Leo Frank was arrested for the murder of Mary Phagan (actually murdered on Apr. 26th).  The Leo Frank Trial was the one article headline that I found in interesting in my careful search of the New York Times archives (I read them all for the month of May in 1913). Frank became the only known Jew lynched in American history. hxxp://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... frank.html

I really doubt a lighthearted, comedic book about a treasure hunt would rely on the history of lynchings to lead folks to the treasure.

forest_blight wrote:: I really doubt a lighthearted, comedic book about a treasure hunt would rely on the history of lynchings to lead folks to the treasure. History ain't all 'bout smelling the roses, my friend.  Thorns and local color may bring our attention to uncomfortable topics.  Do you think this hunt is G-rated or E-for-everyone?  I think it's at least a PG, which may dredge up some ideas that have shock value.  Alcatraz in SF is one example.  Are we allowed to discuss it only as a landmark but not mention the awful representation of incarceration of our worst criminals?  The events around Sumter weren't so pretty, nor was the assination of President Lincoln, yet we find a way to hold such historically relevant topics in a discussable category. Lynching, rather the protest of such dreadful acts is surely something Preiss may have thought worth basing a puzzle on.  It could be utilized to achieve a sense for finding a location that is below something which is hanging or it could relate to a famous murder scene, talked about locally, representing historic value.  Billy Holiday and Woody Guthrie's anti-lynching songs serve to make the dark topic accessible.  I wouldn't say this hunt is totally lighthearted in design.  I think historical material will always have it's darker aspect.  Any young adult might be better off having to face or acknowledge history in that manner.  It's how we learn.

Just a question I've been pondering... If we can accept that Image 2, with its map of Charleston, actually points to Sullivan's Island, is it far fetched to conclude that Image 3, with its map of Roanoke Island, might actually point to one of the other nearby islands (Pea, Hatteras, Ocracoke, etc.)?

Verse 6 with Image 2 suggests an island by looking to the literary reference "Treasure Island". Image 3's outline of Roanoke island doesn't fully suggest to me some other island may be considered. Consider the lat/long numbers as a prime example of limiting a general area to approx 69 miles of lat and a range of miles depending on longitude (53 miles at 40 degree N).

Hirudiniforme wrote:: If we can accept that Image 2, with its map of Charleston, actually points to Sullivan's Island, is it far fetched to conclude that Image 3, with its map of Roanoke Island, might actually point to one of the other nearby islands (Pea, Hatteras, Ocracoke, etc.)? It's a fair point. But the verse says "Ride the man of oz / To the land near the window."

Gotta agree. The land near the window is undeniably Roanoke. The verse tells us to go there. There's just too much pointing that way to think of anything else.

rookhunter wrote:: Greetings TJ! Nice to have you aboard. The treasure in your city is quite the enigma. Hopefully we can crack the case. If you are ever in the area, would you mind taking pics of the area below? I think there might be something of interest there. Rook I have these...I've just been slacking lately :-) I will upload them this week. I've just gotten caught (back) up on this...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Here's a general ramble/recap on where I'm at with this one. Unfortunately I'd have to agree with Bigmatty that: When I put together my notes on Sullivan's Island... hxxp://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... amaris.pdf ...the area with the war memorial seemed a secluded, undisturbed spot. But revisiting on Google Maps it seems to have changed a lot even over the past couple of years...the cables I once saw as a possible confirmer are gone, there are large new green electrical installations and buried cables. I kind of hope it's not there now, although I still like it, and the ground directly beside the memorial is probably still untouched. But...digging next to a war memorial; digging next to a boundary marker that warns of fines and imprisonment; digging next to a tree; these all seem a bit unlikely to me. On the other hand, it seems to me that "twelve paces" away from one of these is too vague to be a clear instruction on where to dig...isn't it...? I don't know. I'd really like something more definite. Here are some updated notes on these two "white stone" candidates. hxxp://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... stones.pdf In the vicinity of the church, I’m also interested in the white “Osceola” street marker near the memorial, and an African tree in the church grounds someone mentioned as the “only standing member of a forest”. (The part of the introduction relating to this puzzle goes on about African trees.) If we could find a white granite wall that it was possible to dig next to, that might account for the “granite walls” in the verse, as well as the “white stone”. It doesn’t have to be “a white stone”, it could just be “white stone (wall)”. If I was going on a photo-taking tour of this area, I’d like to see: 1) Pics showing the area around the boundary stone…I’ve never seen a general overview around this area. 2) Pics showing the area at the bottom of 12th Station St. I feel this road is significant, with the white-tipped hour hand in the image pointing at 12, and the litany entry mentioning midnight. 3) Pics showing the back of the church, next to the parking lot. Anywhere to dig in the church grounds…? We know it’s not buried in a graveyard, but we also know we apparently need to ask permission to dig so perhaps it’s private. I’d also like to see exactly where this African tree is. 4) Some close-ups of the war memorial from different sides. White, I have a load of photos that I took around the area (as well as for Rook too). I think I even had the post typed up and just never submitted... Also, the one thing I liked about the boundary marker was that the 3 ending the '1963" and the 2 in "Moultrie-2" were rotated like in Image 2. hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... 7c8aa84e71 (I am caught up on all of this...not trying to re-state anything that has already been said...)

bonestructure" post="416653424 wrote:: Cask 2 - Charleston, SC This is what the geodetic triangulation marker looks like. I put a blue star on the Battery map to show its location. You can also go to the location (though you land a couple of feet off) in Google street view: hxxp://goo.gl/maps/yNFNw Standing on the top of the seawall at the spot of the marker and looking toward the park, you see this.  The Fort Sumter statue is just to the left out of the shot.  The statue of General Moultrie you see in the picture is on the same spot where the USS Maine's capstan stood in the 1980s.  The "white house" is off to the right. High Battery is just that, it's about six feet high.  It is also about six feet wide and is flagged with slate to make a promenade on top of the wall.  The marker is on the water side of the wall at the edge of the promenade, embedded in the concrete surrounding the flagstones. The picture was taken while standing on top of High Battery on the promenade at the spot where the marker is embedded.  The gentleman in the blue shirt is standing at street level in the planting bed.  I plan to set a plumb line on top of the geodetic marker and run the string across the wall to drop down into the approximately 5-foot-wide planting bed that is between the wall of High Battery and the street. I'll then set markers for a foot on each side of the plumb line, which will give me an area approximately 2'x5' to dig in. The spot I'm going to dig looks like this.  It's hard-packed sand but it loosens when water is poured on it (and there's plenty of water handy I just have to bring a bucket.) The logic for choosing this spot:  I am assuming that the verse is not a series of descriptors of one spot, but more a set of directions to get you to the casque's location.  So the first part gives a general indicator for WPG, with the verse that paraphrases the opening of Treasure Island (a story about pirates) to point you to a location with a strong pirate association, then the bandstand (stand and listen), the Hunley marker with its fountains (cool clear sound of water), the Simms statue (harken to the words), the Jasper Revolutionary War monument (freedom at the birth of a century), the Maine capstan (May 1913, the date the Maine capstan was given to Charleston, that date appeared on a plaque on the capstan's pedestal), and the actual pirate monument (on the 8th a scene etc.) This gets you to the east end of the park.  The location then narrows down with "Between two arms extended" (stand in the area between the pointing arms of the Jasper and Sumter statues, facing the Battery and the harbor), below the bar that binds (the "bar that binds" is the Battery itself, below it is the planting bed), beside the long palm's shadow (there is a tall palmetto there, and I think Preiss wrote  the clue to specify the shadow, not the palm itself, because the casque is technically outside of the park proper), embedded in the sand (the sand-filled planting bed, because the only other major areas of sand in WPG are the walking paths and I tested them, they are hard-packed like cement and tremendously difficult to dig in.)  Preiss is being very specific here: the box is in sand, not soil, and the curious word choice, "embedded", hints at the planting bed.  Finally "white house close at hand", the large white mansion of 2 S Battery is in direct line of sight from the spot, about forty feet away. My logic for choosing the geodetic marker is a bit shakier; I am going by the coordinate numbers in the lion's mane (the geodetic marker is registered with the USGS using that latitude and longitude), because the marker is a triangulation marker and the Fort Sumter mask's string forms a triangle, and because the marker is directly in front of you when following the verse as I've laid out above.  It's a hunch, essentially.  :)  I keep asking myself, well, if it is the marker, wouldn't Preiss have included some disguised version of the marker in the image?  I don't think so, because that would be too big of a clue.  A verse all about WPG, a visual that looks like the geodetic marker, bam, you dig there.  It would be too easily solvable, he had to leave the marker out of the image.  Or so I keep telling myself. You were right in your earlier post, confirmation bias is a real stumbling block here.  But I think this has as good a chance as most theories, so I'm going with it. A poster called bonestructure at SA came with up with an interesting theory about another of those markers at White Point Gardens, but couldn't get permission to dig.

I like the idea of the arms of the statues...I am more apt to side with the literal sense of the "...arms extended". Do you know who or what department bonestructure asked for permission?

tjgrey wrote:: Do you know who or what department bonestructure asked for permission? bonestructure" post="417280579 wrote:: Cask 2 - Charleston SC No one at the City of Charleston Parks and Recreation really wanted to look at my application before the holiday, so only now am I finally getting a response, and it's not an encouraging one. At first I was told that a permit to dig in the planting bed along High Battery might be issued if I was willing to put up a large damage bond.  The latest word, though, is that no permit will be issued to me or to anyone else who wants to dig for a cask in or around White Point Gardens. There is a blanket prohibition against metal detecting or digging in any public park in the city of Charleston, and for White Point Gardens in particular digging is a violation of SC's antiquities preservation act and can result in a large fine and\or jail time.  I was told that the only way digging for the cask could be authorized at WPG is if the request is coming as part of a formal archaeological survey sponsored by an accredited college or university, complete with a detailed dig plan that has been signed off on by the Preservation Society.  There have been digs like that before in peninsular Charleston, but the permitting and approval process takes literally years before anyone has been allowed to break ground. So, that's that. I had a brief, wild moment of wanting to sneak down there one night and just wildcat it, but I have to hold a security clearance for my job and getting arrested would definitely jeopardize that.  I'm not going to risk it.  If anyone else wants to take up that cudgel, feel free. This was the report...

Wow. Stonewalled. (Pun intended). Well, my angle was more toward a survey (of several specific locations to deduce) and (with hope) just seeing where it went with them from there. Do you know if any kind of ground radar or anything would 1. locate the casque 2. be available ?

Any ideas what we should see at the site from the image? I really don't see much to choose from.

Just for fun: 1968

It's a lion all right...the similarity ends there...

Wow, there's a lot going on in that image. Look closely at it for awhile. Figure vs. ground.

forest_blight wrote:: Wow, there's a lot going on in that image. Look closely at it for awhile. Figure vs. ground. You mean, it's not just a lion?

I have no doubt this is an influence.  I just don't see it being a clue in itself, particularly the roman numeral III as recerence to the 3 cent piece.

This poster of a lion (with people legs and faces ) is an influencer out of all the other images in the world (predating 1981) of lions? not a national geographic image or a childs book of animals, or even a ringling bros poster? What roman Numeral III?

Casque 2 Africa's Diamond, Image 2, Verse 6 I've already posted a main theory on this location as it fits with ALL the criteria except for any stupid misconceptions based on how people have "expertly" studied Cleveland and Chicago's reported solutions.  All the solutions deserve an adjustment in how we treat them. How does the Litany of the Jewels apply? Africa's Diamond, earth-born star, Bright harvest of the midnight rock earth-born star = literally "from the earth" + "celestial body" Bright harvest of the midnight rock = "rock that collects light at midnight" THE MOON.  How was the moon thought to have been formed?  From the earth right?  This was known or at least believed by many at the time this casque was buried.  I read that it was officially settled in 1984 that an impact event on the proto-earth material created the lunar body. Now, consider how this cryptic reference to the moon is applicable to this location.  My proposal is that it has to do with the moon and diamond both are rocks that reflect a light source.  This applies to my theory of a lighthouse which is a composition of a lamp and reflector.  This surely isn't the only possible interpretation, but it cooperates with various visual and textual interpretations. 1. (visual) Mythical interpretation of the lepidoptera identification: Polyphemus Moth = Polyphemus the Cyclops, giant with 1-eye, blinded by Odysseus.  Compare to tall lighthouse structure built in 1827 with it's lamp removed. 2. (visual) hidden in the shape of the daisy, the circular center of a daisy presented as an ellipse, matches the shape of the top of the reddish brick 1827 lighthouse as seen from a photo taken from the newer taller 1857 lighthouse built just 200 meters away (this lighthouse received it's lamp/reflector from the defunct 1827 lighthouse) 3. (textual) beside the long palm's shadow.  Each of the three words, "long, palm, and shadow" may be understood in different ways and have a specific implication depending on whether they are differential based on somethings surrounds.  In this case, there are two lighthouses, the shorter 1827 lighthouse with a "closed" top (having no light apparatus), and the taller (long?) 1857 lighthouse with an "open" (palm?) top.  In fact, the 1857 lighthouse does cast a daytime shadow that is next to the 1827 lighthouse. 4. (textual) Edwin and Edwina named after him.  Succession, the name "Edwin" being passed down from parent to child.  The "light" being passed "down" from the predecessor-house to successor-house. Perhaps the African element to this location is the "dark" association in the "blinded" 1827 lighthouse.  The older lighthouse represents the lion, the father, and the blind cyclops. Check this out, there is one pedal on the daisy that is shadowy, it might look like one of these cistern "arms", does it relative to the top of the lighthouse point to where the casque is buried at the cistern (below the bar that binds)?

What roman numeral III?

Does anyone see any kind of resemblance with the lines around the cross to the lower left in the lion's mane? I kind of see the outline of Middle St (possibly in two areas). Just throwing that out there... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm adding the idea that the "drumming" theme fits the African cultural element, although drumming exists in many other cultures, I want to submit that the 'cool, clear sound' of water is hinting a jazz slang which is in itself of African cultural origin. Drumming is also the sound of birds retelling romance since its also the jargon for a bird type mating call. hxxp://www.wildbirdseedmart.com/wild-bi ... act-a-Mate According to their biological purpose to detract predators, the large dots on the wings of Ms. Lepidotera may be called "eyes".  Perhaps there is an opportunity for homonymy with how diamonds are casually referred to as "ice". Another thought, loosely identifying things related to eating fruit as the golden pear suggests and relating to Odysseus, a story about lotus-eaters in North Africa, where those of his crew ate their fruit and didn't want to come back aboard the ship has me in wonder if this ties into the Civil War fruit that was commonly foraged, called persimmons. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persimmon_regiment

I am going to present my case for an on the ground exploratory expeditionto Patriots Point SC. Since we are stuck on this treasure location I though it wouldn't hurt to explore a new point of view. In the past I linked the line in verse 5 "a wingles bird ascended, born of ancient dreams of flight"  to the naval base musem and their Vietnam helicopters.  I believe there are other clues that point to this area. Exhibit "toothy grin face guy" I think this guy holds many clues, we just havn't found them yet. Notice the lines for the string he is hanging on. Those two lines represent the ferrys that go to Ft Sumter. As you can see in he next image they are similar. One of the ways to get to Fort Sumter is a ferry that leaves from Patriots Point . While we are on the subject of the toothy guy look at this next picture. The triangle shaped teeth in image 2 iseem to me to resemble the tops of these wooden pier poles they have near there. I live in a desert so I don't know if those are common or not so common but I find a resemblence. The Arthur Ravenel bridge which is also visible in the distance would the same place that the Pear man bridge would have been in 1982. This bridge me to my next point. Preiss has in the past put clues to lead us to places in real life. In this image the pear is clearly a clue to the bridge but why put the bridge as a clue? Preiss already put a map of Charleston in the image, why the pear? I think Preiss was trying to outline the area of Patriots Point by not only using the pear but also Coleman Ave which has already been established as outlined on the image as a branch from the pine. The final clue I think I picked up on is Verse 5's "Lane 222" Go to 222 Coleman and you will see this: Opposite of this you will see this sign: The clue Lane 222 may be an address that leads us to the entrance to Patriots Point and coincidentally where you would see an "arc of lights" from the bridge at night. I know these clues are not amazing but I do think it is worth a look around the area. There are pictures online of the boats and helicopters but I think we are looking for an out of the way area that may not show up on google, next to the pier perhaps. I dont think it would hurt to look.

Those are some interesting thoughts, Rookhunter.  West Coleman is a Boulevard, so may I suggest that if you are going to look in the area, look for the word "Lane" somewhere.  Since Lane is separate from 222 in the Verse, this would make sense that they would be 2 separate clues.

Excellent Rook! Definitely a different (new) perspective for V5. I did not forget either...I owe you some photos... Eg, my thoughts as well..."Lane" is one of the major parts of that verse that I could never see fitting for this location and I will definitely keep that clue in mind when I go over there. (Unless Lane was a road or marker that has changed in the last three decades....but all of the asking around I have done hasn't resulted in anyone recalling anything of the sort...) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Deuce, I can't see what's happening here. Are you looking for a superimposed X marks the spot?

Thought I added a comment in that post. Guess not. I just haven't seen this mentioned as a state outline. I know this image is SC and everything but thought I would add this to the thread. If it was mentioned already my bad.

Charles Towne Landing Historic Site If the image is inverted, this swampy water area resembles the marks on the Lion's Forehead. hxxp://goo.gl/maps/svBTj

Deuce wrote:: Thought I added a comment in that post. Guess not. I just haven't seen this mentioned as a state outline. I know this image is SC and everything but thought I would add this to the thread. If it was mentioned already my bad. This is good though! I think that image is a good confirmed of the state...just wish we could decide on either a verse or a spot in Charleston. I think with either of those pieces one could wholeheartedly work toward a single solution for this area. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

wk wrote:: Charles Towne Landing Historic Site If the image is inverted, this swampy water area resembles the marks on the Lion's Forehead. hxxp://goo.gl/maps/svBTj I was talking to erexere about Charles Towne Landing at one point. There was a theory I had developing but the thing that killed it (my theory anyway) was the "...two arms extended...below the bar that binds..." part. I always thought that a pillory fit these lines and one of only two pillories that I know of that exist in Charleston is in Charles Towne Landing. I called them and asked and they told me their pillory was put there in the last decade (2006 if I remember right). And if anyone else were to mention that they like a pillory for those lines, the only other one that I've seen around, was just walking by it by chance, was at the Powder Magazine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tj, I like the pillory idea, it certainly fits snug as one way to interpret those lines.  I wonder if the information about it's being located there in 2006 was inaccurate in some way.  Why would they put it there to begin with?  It's historical right?  Perhaps there was evidence of that history back in the 80's. I've had a lot of fun analyzing this image and it's verse.  I have a feeling I'm no where close to understanding it.

erexere wrote:: tj, I like the pillory idea, it certainly fits snug as one way to interpret those lines.  I wonder if the information about it's being located there in 2006 was inaccurate in some way.  Why would they put it there to begin with?  It's historical right?  Perhaps there was evidence of that history back in the 80's. I've had a lot of fun analyzing this image and it's verse.  I have a feeling I'm no where close to understanding it. I wondered that (hah enough to probably warrant a second call) too. And there is another pillory in front of the Powder Magazine downtown. And it stands next to two guns. (Attached) Yeah the divided camps for the verse fit to this image doesn't help in narrowing any one location. As I've said, I'd be happy to do any ground work here locally. Just trying to find a spot that's actually "dig-able" as if it's on historic property I think we we may be out of luck. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also, as much as I like Charles Towne Landing, if we are going on the basis of seeing a major landmark or character for the city, one cannot see Fort Sumter from Charles Towne Landing...

I think people hold on to the idea that a clue must always be a physical place or object.  It sure makes sense to name a street or identify a major landmark shape, but then the digspot can still be miles away depending on the theme choice.  Does the fruit fall far from the tree?  Most say it doesnt.  It all depends.  Line of sight becomes especially important once youve identified the final markers.  I dont think Sumter is a final marker.  I dont think this is a very easy puzzle.  The verse is extremely hard to find anything that suits it. Major theme to contend with is Africa, then Civil War because of the historic relevance of Charleston.  I keep tbinking Preiss would want us to ask the question of what would those specific fairies do with the jewel?  The references about the African tree spirits and earth born star (diamond) from the supporting pages must figure in somehow.  Africa is hot often it becomes difficult to find water.  The Bilibao (i forget how to spell it...got hobbits on the brain) tree was a keeper of massive amounts of water.  I say my ideas concerning cisterns is the way to go.  Ive identified Cape Romain as the location that fits best but maybe thats wrong.  Maybe theres a cistern to be found in Charles Towne Landing or somewhere else nearer to Charleston or Sumter.

so if the pillory, was put there in 2006, where did it come from, or is it a replica maybe need to call again, would they let you see the docs on the info

the one at Charleston Battery Museum, is a replica hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/51744281@N08/4870759814/

you can Gman walk in some of the pks in charleston, on the paths and trails you can walk through the citadel too hampton hxxp://goo.gl/maps/TTHiQ white point hxxp://goo.gl/maps/v9xkH Search by name, area, amenity, keyword, etc. hxxp://www.charlestonparksconservancy.org/our_parks/ hxxp://www.charlestonparksconservancy.org/

cw0909 wrote:: so if the pillory, was put there in 2006, where did it come from, or is it a replica maybe need to call again, would they let you see the docs on the info Yes they said they put it in during a renovation then (2006 I think). I don't think it was moved from somewhere (I.e. An original piece). To me it sounds like it was constructed but I can't say. I can call them again but I'm just not sure entirely on the location itself. What do you guys think? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cw0909 wrote:: the one at Charleston Battery Museum, is a replica hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/51744281@N08/4870759814/ Yeah I think that is the Powder Magazine-the surroundings in the pic from the site matches the one I took above. I haven't been inside there but I don't think there would be much digging *allowed* there either. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did someone mention at one point that Preiss liked or preferred more obscure places to hide the casques? Or was that just implied from the two found? Reason I ask is, there could be many specific potential dog spots ruled out for Charleston if the he preferred obscure (not big/flashy/historical spots)... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tjgrey wrote:: Did someone mention at one point that Preiss liked or preferred more obscure places to hide the casques? Or was that just implied from the two found? Reason I ask is, there could be many specific potential dog spots ruled out for Charleston if the he preferred obscure (not big/flashy/historical spots)... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Other than the Preiss' listed exceptions for flower gardens and cemeteries, nothing is specifically mentioned, no.  At the same time though, we do know that he was burying the casks covertly, so I do consider the implications Preiss would have had to think about in terms of leaving a busted up patch of sod in a high traffic area. Pure speculation, but had I been Preiss, I would have been very concerned about someone randomly stumbling upon a "disturbed" area and checking it out without necessarily knowing anything about the hunt. There's an annual treasure hunt in my city involving a silver medallion and a similar situation has actually happened in the past (i.e. Someone not involved with the hunt uncovered the medallion and ended the game due to chancing upon it).

tjgrey wrote:: Did someone mention at one point that Preiss liked or preferred more obscure places to hide the casques? Or was that just implied from the two found? Reason I ask is, there could be many specific potential dog spots ruled out for Charleston if the he preferred obscure (not big/flashy/historical spots)... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk i dont think obscure was his intention, maybe the challenge ,if you look at these 2 views i think if someone was looking they could see you, front and back hxxp://goo.gl/maps/0NmYH hxxp://goo.gl/maps/IHIGn

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Other than the Preiss' listed exceptions for flower gardens and cemeteries, nothing is specifically mentioned, no.  At the same time though, we do know that he was burying the casks covertly, so I do consider the implications Preiss would have had to think about in terms of leaving a busted up patch of sod in a high traffic area. Pure speculation, but had I been Preiss, I would have been very concerned about someone randombly stumbling upon a "disturbed" area and checking it out without necessarily knowing anything about the hunt. There's an annual treasure hunt in my city involving a silver medallion and a similar situation has actually happened in the past (i.e. Someone not involved with the hunt uncovered the medallion and ended the game due to chancing upon it). Thanks Merlot! I agree. Maybe part of the reason he buried them kind of deep at 2-3' was for that reason? I don't know many that would stumble on something in a public park or the like that deep. Unless park renovation... Anyway, just thinking about the historic sites here in Charleston. So MUCH falls under that when you talk parks, the downtown, forts, etc. I'm just trying to think from his point of view...because I doubt the NPS rules have relaxed much, even in 30 years. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tjgrey wrote:: Yes they said they put it in during a renovation then (2006 I think). I don't think it was moved from somewhere (I.e. An original piece). To me it sounds like it was constructed but I can't say. I can call them again but I'm just not sure entirely on the location itself. What do you guys think? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Back to this, here is the email I received from someone at the College of Charleston library: "Here is some general information on pillories in SC. An SC law in 1785 authorized each county to build a stocks and pillory and whipping post. I scanned the list of laws passed in the city of Charleston before the American revolution and could find no specific mention of stocks or pillories." (It was just a couple scanned pages of a book that mentioned what pillories were used for. Nothing specific.) So my takeaway is, each county was authorized to build, but I'm not certain that there were really any (original) built. Think this idea is out.

Do the eyes of the African mask represent clouds with rain drops in the form of three short vertical lines?

Hey secret fans, I visited Charleston last week.  Lovely city, worth visiting.  I have an updated photo of the Persephone statue behind the Gibbes Museum, which I will upload later. Unfortunately, I didn't stumble upon a casque or even a new clue.  We walked all around the Gibbes and Gateway Walk looking for clues.  No avail. I feel like the shape in the mask eyes that exerexe is referring to as "clouds with rain drops" may be the next physical clue.  Just a hunch.  Maybe we can recruit a searcher from the College of Charleston or the Citadel.  Seems like this hunt would be fun for a local college student. AnotherDoth

I know a rebus has been brought up for Image 2 with the "Pearman" Bridge, but what about the tips of the clock hands as "white point/points" for White Point Garden? Have I read this before? Either way, I think it's a pretty solid indicator of the park for the area...

The wing tips of the moth look like the "white points" for that interpretation.

As for the cloud with rain drops symbol, I think it should be worth considering the idea that the "cool clear sound of water," which we should be hearing might be the sound of rain drops. I feel this is a great link to a water cistern, which has rain water collection written all over it. I've already theorized that the bar (place to go have a drink) that binds (something that holds) could be a riddle about a cistern. A couple lines of verse AND a symbol on the image in the form a rain cloud together make a pretty sizable reference to ONE THING, which makes me really think a specific cistern barrel is our target goal for locating the next casque.

The LotJ for this location, the Diamond seems to support the idea of a lighthouse. V6 maybe supports the idea of a lighthouse. I'm thinking a "white house" might just be a "white light house". The image seems to be hiding the shape or outline of a tall structure, maybe that's a lighthouse. Of all the puzzles, this really seems to me a good candidate to use a lighthouse. I found a 1975 book about Lighthouses. Maybe it will contain something like a quote or other visual supporting evidence. (hope to get it in a week or so, will report back after I page through it.)

This image is in "Abroad from America". It is on page 119, the chapter on Fredrika Brema. At first glance, it looks like the hill thing in the middle (underneath the tree) kind of resembles the mask with the map of the Charleston peninsula. Maybe not, but if we were onto the idea that there was a particular painting/drawing that inspired the theme of each image (like the woman in the Milwaukee image),this kind of has some similar parts. It states: " Southern Vegetation , by Fredrika Bremer, ink on paper, circa 1850. Carolina Rediviva Library, Universitetsbiblioteket, Uppsala. Tiring of the bleak winter and severe morality of New England, Fredrika Bremer headed for the milder climate of the South in February 1850, arriving in Charleston, South Carolina, in mid-March. Her travels through South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida left her in awe of the South's extravagance. Possessed of a "wild, luxuriant beauty defying the power of man," the sensuous southern landscaped was "un-speakably interesting" to her."

I can see where you're coming from. And I can tell you that, at the point where you think those images have any relation in connection with the puzzle, you've completely lost the plot.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I can see where you're coming from. And I can tell you that, at the point where you think those images have any relation in connection with the puzzle, you've completely lost the plot. I'm not saying I think this image is a direct match. I was just throwing it out there as someone said in the Milwaukee thread that there was a painting (or something) that could have been the source or idea for JJP when the images were created because this was in Abroad as well.

I have the solution for image 2, verse 5. I visited the site this morning and will attempt to put all information into format for solution. After thirty years, under an oak tree, I do not believe I will get permission to dig. Hopefully, the site will have a record of when it was buried. I will be contacting them on Monday, Sept. 22, 2014. Wish me luck.

Good luck. How did it go?

So, I believe I have found the "iconic" building image in Image 2... It aligns just right and appears when you are standing at the correct spot, just like Milwaukee! I don't want to give it away though because I feel like it will tie together quite a bit, and because it gives us a definitive search location. I'm going to see if dellucc wants to take a crack at a theory that I (and one other player) have before I let the "cat" out of the bag.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: So, I believe I have found the "iconic" building image in Image 2... It aligns just right and appears when you are standing at the correct spot, just like Milwaukee! I don't want to give it away though because I feel like it will tie together quite a bit, and because it gives us a definitive search location. I'm going to see if dellucc wants to take a crack at a theory that I (and one other player) have before I let the "cat" out of the bag. Please tell me it's got to do with the lines behind the pear & daisy, and the "sunglasses" shape...I can't line those up with anything.

Also, has anyone looked at the base of the Confederate Defenders monument as the pattern in the wings (instead of cannonballs or cobblestones)? Cannonballs are so uniform, and the spacing between the stones on Chalmers St. seems too great. These seem like a pretty good match IMO. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7693757 ... PA!2e0!3e5

tjgrey wrote:: Also, has anyone looked at the base of the Confederate Defenders monument as the pattern in the wings (instead of cannonballs or cobblestones)? Cannonballs are so uniform, and the spacing between the stones on Chalmers St. seems too great. Could they be grapes?

The Citadel has a baseball field. "Joseph P. Riley Jr. park". and " Star of the West Monument" and Wind swept halls.

Has anyone noted that there is something wrong with the cut of the diamond? If there is not a clue there, then that is the ugliest gem cut that I have ever seen.

Image 2 is most definitely Charleston, SC. The woman is depicted as a slave. The gem and clock is for April, Mr. Preiss was a history teacher and the most important historical events for April: Civil War began with "First shot fired" 4/12/61 from Fort Sumter. Union held. These didn't happen in April but relevant for slavery, Charleston and the Civil War. From the Northern point of Morris Island, Citadel Cadets fired upon the ship "Star of the West" 1861. Citadel was confederate and The Star was bringing supplies to Fort Sumter. 1/1861 Slave auctions were held at the intersection of Broad and East street but due to traffic problems they were banned from outdoor sale and moved to"Ryan's Mart" on Chalmer's Street, the only, still existing slave auction building in SC. It was own by the Sheriff Thomas Ryan.

Lions forehead appears to be the reverse image of Charleston waterway. I can make out Charleston's' Peninsular, Cooper river, Wando river and Mt. Pleasant. I noticed that each MAP image does not include Sullivan Island. There is also an unusual outline, of woman's right wing, that matches a distinct waterway for image 7.

wk wrote:: Charles Towne Landing Historic Site If the image is inverted, this swampy water area resembles the marks on the Lion's Forehead. hxxp://goo.gl/maps/svBTj yes, I had this idea last year. Unfortunately, the outline seems to change depending on the view, map or tide.

Yeah, and with Charles Towne Landing, there are several things that have happened more recently (since the 2000s). I always liked the idea, but I could never find the visuals there, and from the times I've gone anyway, you can't really get too far into the historic landmarks and such without having to pay for a ticket to get in. (Unless this was different in the 70s/80s...) I always liked the pillory as "two arms extended...bar that binds" too...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: A poster called bonestructure at SA came with up with an interesting theory about another of those markers at White Point Gardens, but couldn't get permission to dig. I thought that Bonestructure's proposed solution of White Point Garden was fairly persuasive. Unfortunately, we may have missed our window of opportunity. It looks like the city of Charleston is doing some major renovations on that spot where the high battery meets the low battery: hxxp://www.charleston-sc.gov/index.aspx?NID=1065 You can see the satellite view of the work here: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7695639,-79.9289249,77m/data=!3m1!1e3 Don't give up hope, though! The satellite view is still showing those bushes along the east side of E. Battery, and that's the place where Bonestructure thought the casque was in the sands. If that bit of ground needed to be excavated, I'm sure the construction company would have started by tearing out the plants. Does anyone in Charleston feel like going down to White Point Garden and giving us a on-the-spot update about the conditions at the worksite? (Maybe someone could even get a manual labor job on the project and do a little digging on the side during a lunch break!)

Oregonian, What was Bonestructure's theory there? The construction has completed...it has been for a little while now (couple of months maybe?). I was down there and the part of the high battery seawall has been re-modeled. The concrete is all new. If he is talking the flower beds, there's a good chance they were dug up and/or replaced/redone. There is now a small wall containing the bushes and flowers, not just a curb. It may still be there though. It's a very public spot, but very easy to drive right up to and park ;-) I'll attach images when I can!

tjgrey wrote:: Oregonian, It may still be there though. It's a very public spot, but very easy to drive right up to and park ;-) I'll attach images when I can! I agree completely... WPG is an awesome spot!

Here you go: Construction finished. hxxp://www.abcnews4.com/story/26154353/ ... y-complete Here is what the new part of the seawall look like: hxxp://wciv.images.worldnow.com/images/4351027_G.jpg

tjgrey wrote:: What was Bonestructure's theory there? For Tjgrey, and anyone else who's interested, Bonestructure's Charleston solve was part of the Something Awful thread. (Scroll down to June 19, 2013 to see the refined version of the solution.) Basically she says that Verse 6 is taking us on a stroll through White Point Garden. There are references to the bandstand and the fountain and the various monuments. We end up at the High Battery looking across East Battery at the park. The large white mansion of 2 S. Battery is nearby. ("White house close at hand.") The casque would be buried in the sand at the base of the High Battery. Bonestructure tried to get permission to dig last year, but the city told her that "digging is a violation of SC's antiquities preservation act and can result in a large fine and\or jail time." But, of course, now they're doing a major multimillion-dollar digging project and a tiny, little hole to look for the casque seems trivial by comparison. So, who knows? Maybe it could happen. It would be great if someone in Charleston could use Bonestructure's photos to get current shots of the same locations. Is the geological survey marker still there? It looks like the construction work was mostly at the corner, so our dig spot may still be intact. It may be premature to put this one in the "unrecoverable" category just yet.

Oregon, Right. Definitely don't write this one off! I do think the geoditic marker is still there. I will walk up there next time I'm at WPG. I think it was just the lower part of that walk/wall, including the flower beds, curb, and just the front of part of the high seawall in a spot (where you walk up on...the rest of the high part wasn't changed to my knowledge). Which brings up...can this be dug in as part of The Secret rules (a flower bed)? I don't think if BP pointed us to the park that it would be right outside of the park...he kind of stuck to public parks, I can't imagine if the clues pointed to the park that the casque wouldn't be in the park. Just my take on it. Yes, I have some photos (having issues getting anything posted), and I will get down there and take some more from the seawall.

My theory was a bust. I had a meeting with two Generals at the Citadel College of Charleston. They were very eager to help in any way possible and very excited about the actual hunt. Number one, they were there in 1981 and have no record of Mr. Preiss being there. Number two, the helicopter was not placed till 1996, and other monuments have been moved to different locations since that time. All in all, Summerall Field is not the location of the casque. I did take a good look at the forehead of the lion. The pattern is a reverse image of the waterways of Charleston. I can easily match the distinctive shape of an inlet near Road 703 and the Cooper and Wando rivers.

dellucc wrote:: ... I can easily match the distinctive shape of an inlet near Road 703 and the Cooper and Wando rivers. LOL! I have a Wando athletics shirt on today. Brings back good memories. BTW - way to go making some progress in the hunt by being physically involved!

Hi Everyone: Seems like this thread had stalled. I'm in Charleston all week. I have just finished photo-surveying Washington Square and will be doing the same with White Point Gardens tomorrow. Let me know if anyone would like specific photos taken while I'm there.

I'm curious if the black haired woman in a bikini, gold bracelets, next to a lion is a reference to Calypso. It seems to fit the same pattern of a comic book appearance in 1980. Calypso and Polyphemus both factor into the Odysseus story. It's possible that "hear the cool, clear sound of water" and "beneath the bar that binds" could refer to a steel drum that holds drinking water.

There's a name for the type of cut or shape of a diamond. The diamond illustrated here is called the "cushion" or "candlelight" cut. Interestingly, there is also a "pear" cut type of diamond. Looks like a little bit of thought went into the choice of drawing a pear and moth here.

In the past there's been some interest in Washington Square Park. Eg it's been pointed out that the "Persephone" statue at the nearby Gibbes museum is a possible match for wonder woman, and the Washington Light Infantry monument is a possible candidate for the 'mystery obelisk' on the mask. Given that the image features a clock signifying April in the shape of Fort Sumter, I also like jstarr's old observation about the park's April Fort Sumter time capsule. I'm just mentioning this place again because I don't know if it's been considered much with V5. Lane Two twenty two Although there's clearly stuff in these verses that you can only see when you're walking around, the book also claims that you might figure one out without leaving your house. "Two twenty two" might indicate Feb 22nd, Washington's birthday. This has been mentioned before, but I'm not sure if it's been explicitly linked with Washington Square Park. I think jstarr and others were only looking at the more popular V6 and ignoring the Poe angle. Quick Poe reminder: his story "The cask of Amontillado" features "walls of solid granite", his "Gold Bug" story features buried treasure on Sullivan's Island found by hanging a weight from a tree, and his "Balloon Hoax" features the arrival there of a hot air balloon ("wingless bird"). There's also the Citadel link, the logo being a nice match for "Citadel in the night". Has anyone investigated any white stone / twelve paces in this place...?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Lane Two twenty two WhiteRabbit wrote:: There's also the Citadel link, the logo being a nice match for "Citadel in the night". There is an unassuming, industrial street on the east side of Charleston called "Washington Street," which would mesh well with "lane." It doesn't look too promising from Google's street view, though. Now that is interesting, and not something I recall reading here before. Nice insight.

animal painter wrote:: Notice the similarity of the torso and the rounded belly. Just an afterthought, but looking at the Ellis eagle... It's worth noting that the head and tongue is close enough to be a convincing match, even though the rest of the body isn't. And with Persephone, the belly is good even if the arms are wrong. It's like the Juneau hand; Ponce de Leon too. There are certain matches that are convincing just in a small detail of the overall subject, but the pose or the rest of the character might be changed. (When I first saw Persephone I didn't really buy it because the overall figure didn't seem that similar, but I like it better now.)

Yep. The same could be said for the Statue of Liberty -- only the face is a match.

I have a cultural note for anyone interested in some of the introductory text. Whiterabbit mightve asked about this, but I couldnt find it in a search. Also, I dont have my book anymore, so i might be fuzzy on the details. There was a phrase used in the story about the African fair folk or tree spirits: "jump up". From context, you know it had to do with dancing to drums. In a book about the early days of Calypso music. Major recognition in America came from huge artists known as Lion in the 1930's and 40's, and Sparrow in the 50's. The term "jump up" is loosely connected to the Carribbean but it was popularly used in connection with drum bands from Trinidad and Tobago. Does anyone have a good archive collection of National Geographic? This is very old in my memory, but I did a school presentation on Trinidad in 1980 and cited an issue of National Geographic which went into such details. I would like to know if "jump up" was used in that article. I still think the moth winged woman is Calypso, supporting the idea that the treasure is somewhere in conndction with a steel drum cistern. A container for holding (bind) water for drinking (a bar) is more accessible a notion to me than earthquake bolts. I like the association that drumming might have to an earthquake, but I wonder if its just too loose a fit.

forest_blight wrote:: Yep. The same could be said for the Statue of Liberty -- only the face is a match. Made me think of the fairy that represents the Spirit of the Great Lakes sculpture in Image 5. A similar stylistic choice there too

Also keep in mind a 1980 Kodak Polaroid didn't have the greatest resolution so we should take that into account also.

decibalnyc wrote:: Also keep in mind a 1980 Kodak Polaroid didn't have the greatest resolution so we should take that into account also. I wish I had a polaroid sx-70 with film to go to my locations and take photos, I think the distortion/focal length would make it easier to identify the actual spots he viewed things from

From what I remember about those, he would have had to be right up on something for it to be a detailed picture...there was no zoom on those and it had a wide angle.

A Christmas raffle in 1980 gained me a Sonar One-step and a lifetime supply of color film. It was an awesome camera.

erexere wrote:: A Christmas raffle in 1980 gained me a Sonar One-step and a lifetime supply of color film. It was an awesome camera. does that mean you still get polaroid film? that would be a cool trick.

I got about 2 years of good use out of it. I brought home 2 dozen packs of film initially but they screwed me out of collecting packs in the future when they said I was actually too young to have entered the raffle in the first place. I didnt have any immediate family to help me so someone I didnt know who was over 18 helped me collect what I could, but then they retained the voucher to continue collecting film.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I wish I had a polaroid sx-70 with film to go to my locations and take photos, I think the distortion/focal length would make it easier to identify the actual spots he viewed things from This is the image 2 thread so I wont discuss the frustration involved in the Image 1 "Gh" being the Ghirardelli building.

Ivan Mestrovic's work was featured in the Chicago puzzle. His Persephone has some similarity though it's no where near Charleston. Could be Preiss/JJP reall liked Mestrovic's work. I'm compelled to think the connection we should make is that there's a Greek Mythology compenent to the African puzzle.

I'm telling you, man, there's no woman in the picture--just a well-camouflaged rabbit. And no matter where I am, it's staring at me. Joking aside, I just learned something new. There's an insect called the "Rabbit Moth" (Megalopyge opercularis) that's native to the Southern Atlantic coast between North Carolina and Florida. Unfortunately, a Google search for "siamese clogs" turned up nothing.

That's about as scary as the vorpal rabbit of Caerbannog... I'm revising my view that the moth characteristics are solely polyphemus. The hooked tips of the wing are more like the atlas moth. Maybe we're dealing with a blend. My theory is that this is about relating Polyphemus to Odysseus and Calypso to Atlas. I'm still looking at Denmark Vesey formerly known as Telemachus (same name as Odysseus' son) connection.

Frisco wrote:: Joking aside, I just learned something new. There's an insect called the "Rabbit Moth" (Megalopyge opercularis) that's native to the Southern Atlantic coast between North Carolina and Florida. In before Egbert shows up to tell you this belongs in the "High Brow" thread. Just having a little fun, Eg.

We know Edward Wilmot Blyden lived in Sierra Leone and his grandson Edward Wilmot Blyden III became the first advisor to the president. Sierra Leone borders the country of Liberia, which we know has it's roots in the history of Charleston, SC. We also know Sierra leone is also a major player in the diamond mining industry, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Sierra_Leone I've been attempting to answer the question of what about Sierra Leone or Liberia helps point us in the right direction of a location in Charleston? (see verse 6 discussion) I've been thinking the teeth of the pendant/clock/Sumter are jagged like the teeth of a saw or the triangles are like facets of a diamond. I'm also wondering if the triangles are an attempt to recognize the hxxp://www.landofthebrave.info/triangular-trade.htm

Or this 1982 video compelled BP to walk the dog of Oz.... https://youtu.be/FTQbiNvZqaY J/k even though Mt. Kilmanjaro rises like Olympus over the Syren Jetty...right there, these Toto guys must've been heavy into Greek Mythology.

erexere wrote:: Or this 1982 video compelled BP to walk the dog of Oz.... https://youtu.be/FTQbiNvZqaY J/k even though Mt. Kilmanjaro rises like Olympus over the Syren Jetty...right there, these Toto guys must've been heavy into Greek Mythology. Whoa! Hold the line, erexere. It's Serengeti.

Heh. Can't sneak in a little disinformation with Merlot on the case...

erexere wrote:: Heh. Can't sneak in a little disinformation with Merlot on the case... I get the wordplay, just wanted to.. oh nevermind.

But let's just get this straight, for the record. You honestly are suggesting that Bryon Preiss cleverly hid a clue into Image 2 of his 1982 book The Secret, which required you to not only listen to, but understand and decipher the lyrics to Toto's "Africa", and this is what gives you the "A-HA!" moment to what? We already know and agree that Image 2 = Charleston regardless of Preiss' backstage connections with Steve Porcaro, right?

Do we need to find a statue of Rosanna Arquette?

For the record, I was kidding, but I still have some curiosity about the "strange fruit" being a lynching reference. Any historic markers about lynching might've been a supporting hint whether its pirates or those executed along with Vesey.

Note that the orientation of the map clue shape of Charleston 1) doesn't suggest a top-is-north perspective, and 2) isnt consistent with the orientation of the Sumter shape. I suspect the position and orientation of one or both of these clues is important to judging the general direction of where to go looking for a casque. One interpreration would support White Point Gardens, another would support looking somehere NE of Charleston.

I've been looking at the mask in this picture today and was wondering if it had been identified before. I've searched what I've found on the forum and haven't seen anything mentioned. To me the mask resembles a "Dan mask" from the Dan people of the Ivory Coast. These particular masks contain slit eyes, high foreheads and a pointy chin. They also regularly feature a break on the bridge of the nose and through the middle of the forehead. A Google of Dan mask in images will provide many examples. None exactly resemble our mask, but they contain features which seems to have been accumulated to create ours. They also seem to hold beliefs which make me think of the free folks story. The masks are used to communicate with the spirit world, and the masks are said to contain the spirit they are trying to contact. I can't find a link between them and Charleston yet, or if the mask is coincidental. hxxp://www.artyfactory.com/africanmasks/masks/dan.html

Ashsimmonds- Pretty sure this is to be a reference to a Fang Ngil style mask. Some of the smart folks noticed this awhile back. Here is a good list: hxxp://www.randafricanart.com/Fang_ngil.html

I don't think it necessarily has to have any specific connection to Charleston. It seems like most of the images contain a nod to the country of origin of that particular group of Fair Folk (i.e. the falcon for Italy, dragon for China, columns for Greece, masquerade/marionette mask for France, etc). The map of Charleston hidden on the mask is the major clue, the eyes could be doubling as earthquake bolts for another, and the line that runs through the middle of the forehead and over the rightmost eye may be something as well. It's possible there some other connection with Charleston (like a similar mask being on display in a local art museum--seemingly a favorite locale for BP), but I wouldn't be shocked if there wasn't.

I'm trying to understand this one detail on the Sumter shape. I'm thinking of just two possibilities but neither establish or come from a firm location or setting. The triangles on the "mouth" might be bunched together to mimic a feature at a site such as a house with two large triangles and several smaller triangles such as this example: Or, the trinagles could be symbolic of numbers. Two large triangles bookending twelve small triangles might represent "tens" and "ones" for some number like 10 + 1+1+1+1+1+1 +1+1+1+1+1+1 + 10 = 32. Could be that's a Latitude number, since Charleston is at 32.77

Who is the lepidoptera woman? The statue of Persephone at the Gibbes Museum of Art in Charleston is a decent comparison. Or is she Penelope, daughter of Icarus?

With consideration of the May issue of National Geographic in 1913 and the article titled the Monsters in Our Backyards, about insects, I think an interesting notion about identifying the wings of the woman in the Charleston image as that those of the Polyphemus moth, the same name as the "monster" in Calypso's backyard, Polyphemus who was blinded by Odysseus during his escape from the island. Combine this with the notion that Denmark Vesey also had the same name as the son of Odysseus and that he bought his freedom at the birth of a century in Charleston we start seeing how the puzzle takes context.

Recap on what I discovered: this is more than anything you mihht find on the pbwiki... The introductory story un the Secret about the migration of the Fair Folk used the following phrases and references in connection with the African culture: "The Glory that was Greece" (and a reference to the god Pan) "Jump up" (Trinidad and Tobago local color meaning "dance contest") These phrases also appear in quotation marks in the November 1971 issue of National Geographic Magazine in an article about the "Pan" drum.

Dero’s post has encouraged me to post my thoughts on the Charleston casque. I have not thoroughly read through all past posts so I apologize if my thoughts are old news. I discovered The Secret and this forum in January ’16 so I am definitely late to this party. I do think it is so cool that some of you have been at this for decades now. And I have figured out that a lot of ya’ll are working together off the grid, which makes it not as fun for some of us newbies that would love to have your latest thoughts. That being said, I would love feedback. When I first started looking at the Charleston image, I found it frustrating because it didn’t seem to have things drawn in the image like the fencepost for the Chicago casque. I then found on the forum that a good number of people thought that the Charleston casque was in WPG so I took the verse, ignored the image, and decided that it was in one of three places. My best guess (without actually visiting WPG) was that it was across the street from where the USS Maine Capstan once stood on East Battery. Before too long, I discovered another forum where someone named Bone Structure had already come up with the same place and a number of people had concluded she was right. Sadly, I then found photos of the spot being completely rebuilt after the hurricane. If it was in that spot, it is now most assuredly gone. While waiting on the opportunity to go to WPG to check out my other two spots, Erexere posted a message that had to do with geometric lines. I began wondering if I could find something in Image 2 that would function as instructions that would lead one to WPG via lines. Once I had my theory, I went to WPG and upon actually going through the city, I eliminated two of my three options of dig spots (including my original top choice spot.) Ironically, the verse currently has me questioning whether or not WPG is correct, although I am convinced the image takes you to WPG. FYI, I have no idea what I am doing regarding posting pictures. I have attempted to put pictures in an album in photobucket. I hope it works. Once again, some of you likely figured all this out in the 80’s. Forgive me if this is old news. Here is my attempt to decipher the image: A) The most obvious landmark in Image 2 is Fort Sumter. Therefore, start there. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... wbkqmi.jpg B) From Fort Sumter, take the return ferry to the the ferry's departure point: hxxp://www.fortsumtertours.com/quick-answers/ The ferry departs and returns in Downtown Charleston at Liberty Square’s Fort Sumter Visitors Center, 340 Concord St. Charleston, SC 29401 hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... bv9oz9.jpg C) 340 Concord intersects with Calhoun Street. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... pypf3e.jpg Note: There is a flagpole that is surrounded by a semicircle—I have no idea if the ears of the lion represent this, but you do pass it on the way to Calhoun Street. (Flag pole is in between B and C. On map it says Freedom Lane.) hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... wmu033.jpg Once on Calhoun Street, head to King Street which is represented by lion in image 2. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... 0ltqv8.jpg D) Before you get to King Street, you will come to Meeting Street. I believe that the “h” in the mask is referring to the Hampton Obelisk, which is on Calhoun and Meeting. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... jlg8jn.jpg hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... ccoszd.jpg Hampton Obelisk Date Created/Placed: 1911 Address: Calhoun and Meeting st. Charleston South Carolinia (Marion Square) Height: 30 ft. (There are two obelisks in Charleston, hence the need for the h in image 2. hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM4HNK The other one is on Broad and Meeting. hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM45 ... h_Carolina ) -When you see the “h” landmark on Calhoun (Hampton Obelisk), turn Left on Meeting Street and head toward White Point Garden (represented by the white on the moth or butterfly). hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... 1q9oaw.jpg Note: Meeting Street is parallel to King Street. The h in the nose of the mask (Hampton Obelisk) is parallel to the nose of the lion (King Street). Also, the top of the h on the map is very near where the obelisk actually is if you look at a city map of Charleston.). E) On Meeting Street, on the way to WPG, you will pass Gibbes Museum of Art. I believe the girl in Image 2 is a reference to the statue outside the Museum. I copied picture from animal painter’s Oct 18, 2009 post. At some point, I read something about the girl being a nod to the Flying Charleston and the Hand to Hand Charleston (dances). I thought that was pretty clever. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... asqs7i.jpg Stay on Meeting, keep heading to WPG. F) From Meeting Street, cross the street into WPG. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... qnvjga.jpg From this point, we need verse 6. To be continued…

Continued. I don’t have a clue what some of the verse means; maybe some of you can help me. Most of this is on the forum already. I am using the numbers in the landmark map to indicate what I am referring to. If you would like to see pictures of some of the landmarks, here is a link: hxxp://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/108 ... 0Landmarks . White Point Garden is where they hung the pirates. Of all the romance retold – Treasure Island Men of tales and tunes –What kind of men? Sailors Cruel and bold—What kind of sailors? Pirates Seen here—Pirates were seen here hanging for several days. By eyes of old—a long time ago. When you step into WPG from Meeting Street, the first thing you see is the Hunley Memorial that has a fountain (17). If you keep walking, you come to a gazebo that once served as a Band Stand (18). Stand and listen to the birds: I assume “stand” refers to the band stand(18). I have no idea what time of year BP was in Charleston, but I did find a website that stated that Yellow Crowned Night Herons nest every year in the oak trees in WPG. Maybe BP was there during this season?? Does anyone have any other ideas what the bird reference could be? hxxp://glimpsesofcharleston.com/we-just ... -they-are/ Hear the cool, clear song of water: I am assuming that this refers to either the Hunley fountain (17) and/or the river, ocean and harbor on the other side of the bandstand (low battery on map). Standing in the bandstand, you will have water on both sides. I am assuming the “clear song” refers to bandstand. Harken the words: From the bandstand, head to to the Simms statue (16). Simms was a famous writer and orater, hence “Harken the words.” I am wondering if BP is giving us four points, and that the casque is buried between the four points. Point A (15) --Freedom at the birth of a century: No real clue, but I will throw out two thoughts. 1) I have wondered if this could refer to Liberia (in that Liberia means freedom). I don’t think it could have referred to Simms since from everything I have read, he was pro slavery. However, the verse seems to move to a contrast thing with the “Ors”, so maybe there is an intentional comparison of freedom vs. slavery—but how this line helps us find a casque is beyond me. 2) My other thought is that maybe “Freedom at the birth of a century” could refer to the Jasper Monument (15). Jasper distinguished himself in the defense of Fort Moultrie (then called Fort Sullivan) on June 28, 1776. Thomas Jefferson's wrote the Declaration of Independence in June of 1776. BP published the book in 1982. That is pretty close to the bicentennial. Could it be a nod toward 1776?—I wonder if that year is anywhere on the Jasper Monument. Century—100 years? Bicentennial—200 years? I know—it is a bad stretch, but from my perspective, this line either has nothing to do with any landmark in WPG (rather a Liberia reference) or it is has to do with the Jasper Monument. Point B (8)--Or May 1913: This date was on the USS Maine Capstan.(was once located at #8) Point C--Edwin and Edwina named after him: Edward Wilmot Blyden had a connection with both Liberia and Charleston. Blyden, like Simms, was also an author. Unlike Simms, he was not pro-slavery. This is my most ridiculous idea: This line has either nothing to do with a landmark in WPG (rather a Liberia reference) or could it be a weird reference to the fraternal twin looking palms near the spot where the USS Maine Capstan once stood. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... xng8x3.jpg Point D (3)--Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended: I think this refers to the small monument about pirates that is on South Battery. It is almost parallel to the twin palms. I think that there is something significant about the “OR”s, but I don’t know what. Once you are in between those four points, get between two arms extended. Between two arms extended: I think this is referring to the long cannons that the USS Maine sat between (7) and (9). I know that some have speculated that the two arms could be the arms on the statues. I think the picture of the moth or butterfly in Image 2 tell us that the two arms are cannons. You can see the two cannons in the picture with the twin palms. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... xng8x3.jpg Below the bar that binds: I am assuming that this is referring to the capstan that is no longer there (8). It could be referring to the battery wall. This may be a stretch as well, but I am assuming it means that the casque is buried in the sand along this path. Beside the long palm's shadow: Initially, I saw this as having two options: either the palm of a hand on one of the statues or the really tall palm in WPG. If it was referring to the really tall palm, I wanted to see where the shadow of the tree fell at 4 pm. I thought maybe it would fall or point across the street toward the battery wall. I took this picture at 4 pm. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... dww5mx.jpg Even if BP was there during a different time of year (spring forward or fall back Day light saving time), I don’t think the shadow is going to fall on anything near sand. Seeing the shadow of the really tall palm eliminated my thoughts that the casque could have been buried a) across the street by the battery wall or b) near the capstan. Both of those place would have been beneath a bar that binds and between two arms extended. I was quite happy to find that the shadow of the tall palm did not point to where the USS Maine Capstan once stood because I was concerned that the casque would have been destroyed if there was any digging to replace it with the other monument. Side note: I have wondered if the flat center of the daisy referred to the Fort Sumter Monument at the corner of Murray Blvd and East Battery. (In the shadow of the tall palm picture above, the top of the shadow of the tall palm touched it.) I have seen aerial pictures of WPG where that monument looks like a flat disk. The monument is surrounded by what looks like 16 concrete petals. In image 2, the daisy has 17 petals. One is bent. When I look at it, it reminds me of “He loves me, He loves me not,” like I need to pull one off. No idea if this is what JPP was trying to convey. If there was sand around that monument in the 80’s, maybe the spot beside the shadow of the tall palm is significant. Finally—where I think the casque could be buried: I think that the long palm’s shadow may be referring to the hand on the Jasper monument. https://www.flickr.com/photos/hunky_punk/9263287324 Beside the long palm’s shadow, meaning in front of the extended fingers, there is a bricked in bed of greenery. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... fyny8y.jpg If the shrubs are planted the same way underneath the statue as they were in the 80’s, there is a clear spot where a casque could have been buried. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... 1etjzk.jpg I would not have thought BP would bury something in a bed of bushes, but he did with the one Egbert dug up. If it was buried there, it may still be safe after the hurricane. My problem with this is that I grew up near the beach. And I would see the garden bed as being filled with dirt, rather than sand. However, right outside that garden bed is the long path through WPG that could easily be called sand—though it is extremely packed and hard sand. I wonder if the casque is buried right beside the extended hand in the sand. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... h0kgmc.jpg Embedded in the sand, Waits the Fair remuneration, White house close at hand: What convinced me that this is most likely the spot is that while I was standing there taking pictures, I glanced to right to see a building that looked a lot like a miniature White House close at hand. The white house called the Villa Marguerita on the corner of Church Street and South Battery is parallel to the spot. hxxp://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... ul5nyn.jpg I was not standing right next to the Jasper Monument when I took the picture of the white house. But it is the closest house to the Jasper Monument. Also, you can see a tall palm in the picture, but it's shadow would not be near two arms extended. Does anyone know if someone has tried to dig up this spot? Would love to have ya’lls thoughts. Please let me know if I need to clarify anything or if the pictures do not work. New to this.

gajojo wrote:: B) From Fort Sumter, take the return ferry to the the ferry's departure point: hxxp://www.fortsumtertours.com/quick-answers/ The ferry departs and returns in Downtown Charleston at Liberty Square’s Fort Sumter Visitors Center, 340 Concord St. Charleston, SC 29401 gajojo wrote:: E) On Meeting Street, on the way to WPG, you will pass Gibbes Museum of Art. I believe the girl in Image 2 is a reference to the statue outside the Museum. I copied picture from animal painter’s Oct 18, 2009 post. At some point, I read something about the girl being a nod to the Flying Charleston and the Hand to Hand Charleston (dances). I thought that was pretty clever. gajojo wrote:: Stay on Meeting, keep heading to WPG. F) From Meeting Street, cross the street into WPG. From this point, we need verse 6. On this topic...the ferry didn't depart from Concord st in the '80s, nor was that entire plaza near the aquarium there. I think it was built around 2005... I've long thought of the Gibbes (and museums in other casques' locations) as very important. My theory is, BP visited and used local pieces of art to "influence" or as some base material from some of the images. I like your path...I think Meeting is the most obvious, and using images and then the verse as a starting point at the park is good...and consistent with Cleveland and Chicago.

gajojo wrote:: White Point Garden is where they hung the pirates. Of all the romance retold – Treasure Island Men of tales and tunes –What kind of men? Sailors Cruel and bold—What kind of sailors? Pirates Seen here—Pirates were seen here hanging for several days. By eyes of old—a long time ago. When you step into WPG from Meeting Street, the first thing you see is the Hunley Memorial that has a fountain (17). If you keep walking, you come to a gazebo that once served as a Band Stand (18). gajojo wrote:: Stand and listen to the birds: I assume “stand” refers to the band stand(18). I have no idea what time of year BP was in Charleston, but I did find a website that stated that Yellow Crowned Night Herons nest every year in the oak trees in WPG. Maybe BP was there during this season?? gajojo wrote:: Hear the cool, clear song of water: I am assuming that this refers to either the Hunley fountain (17) and/or the river, ocean and harbor on the other side of the bandstand (low battery on map). Standing in the bandstand, you will have water on both sides. I am assuming the “clear song” refers to bandstand. Harken the words: From the bandstand, head to to the Simms statue (16). Simms was a famous writer and orater, hence “Harken the words.” gajojo wrote:: Point A (15) --Freedom at the birth of a century: No real clue, but I will throw out two thoughts. 1) I have wondered if this could refer to Liberia (in that Liberia means freedom). I don’t think it could have referred to Simms since from everything I have read, he was pro slavery. However, the verse seems to move to a contrast thing with the “Ors”, so maybe there is an intentional comparison of freedom vs. slavery—but how this line helps us find a casque is beyond me. 2) My other thought is that maybe “Freedom at the birth of a century” could refer to the Jasper Monument (15). Jasper distinguished himself in the defense of Fort Moultrie (then called Fort Sullivan) on June 28, 1776. Thomas Jefferson's wrote the Declaration of Independence in June of 1776. BP published the book in 1982. That is pretty close to the bicentennial. Could it be a nod toward 1776?—I wonder if that year is anywhere on the Jasper Monument. Century—100 years? Bicentennial—200 years? I know—it is a bad stretch, but from my perspective, this line either has nothing to do with any landmark in WPG (rather a Liberia reference) or it is has to do with the Jasper Monument. gajojo wrote:: Point B (8)--Or May 1913: This date was on the USS Maine Capstan.(was once located at #8) gajojo wrote:: Beside the long palm's shadow: Initially, I saw this as having two options: either the palm of a hand on one of the statues or the really tall palm in WPG. If it was referring to the really tall palm, I wanted to see where the shadow of the tree fell at 4 pm. I thought maybe it would fall or point across the street toward the battery wall. I took this picture at 4 pm. Even if BP was there during a different time of year (spring forward or fall back Day light saving time), I don’t think the shadow is going to fall on anything near sand. gajojo wrote:: Side note: I have wondered if the flat center of the daisy referred to the Fort Sumter Monument at the corner of Murray Blvd and East Battery. (In the shadow of the tall palm picture above, the top of the shadow of the tall palm touched it.) I have seen aerial pictures of WPG where that monument looks like a flat disk. The monument is surrounded by what looks like 16 concrete petals. In image 2, the daisy has 17 petals. One is bent. When I look at it, it reminds me of “He loves me, He loves me not,” like I need to pull one off. No idea if this is what JPP was trying to convey. If there was sand around that monument in the 80’s, maybe the spot beside the shadow of the tall palm is significant. gajojo wrote:: Does anyone know if someone has tried to dig up this spot? Would love to have ya’lls thoughts. Please let me know if I need to clarify anything or if the pictures do not work. New to this. Agreed and agreed. This is a very straightforward way to tell a hunter to begin at this park. Interesting! I need to check this out. Agreed, agreed, and agreed. The bicentennial is interesting to me...I think it potentially has ties to other locations as well, but this probably borderlines into conspiracy-theory-land. (e.g. Milwaukee's "grand 200" could have been a bicentennial trail sign or similar...) Yes, I never found anything other than the capstan that had to do with "May 1913" in Charleston. Yes, I've always liked that tree...but we know that shadow, taken literally, can only cast certain directions, which all point toward the center and north side of the park. Interesting on the daisy petals...I think the whole park is (was much more) pretty sand-covered. That spot, not that I know of...

@gajojo Forgot...Re:local art and museums Google "anne worsham richardson" and look at her artwork... It might not get us any further, but it might help piece together how these were constructed and where BP went.

Thanks tjgrey! Are you the one who lives in Charleston? If so, the next time you are at WPG, I would love it if you would go to that spot and turn and look at the white house. If that verse is actually talking about WPG, the last line felt right on point if it is in that spot. If Fort Sumter ferry doesn't lead you to Calhoun, then I am back to the drawing board. I also could easily see BP acting like a gardener digging in the bricked in part. I will definitely look up that artist. Thanks.

Hi all! I stumbled across "The Secret" last week, but I was instantly hooked so I just wanted to post a quick hello. I spent about 10 years living and working in the Charleston area, so Image 2 caught my attention immediately. (I'm leaning heavily toward Verse 5 for the pairing...) Unfortunately I'm stuck exploring online for now since I won't be back in the Lowcountry for a few more months, but I'm amazed by how much devotion this group has shown to the puzzle. Thanks to everyone who's shared their thought processes so far!

Welcome! I've been at it for 13 years now, and not one casque to show for it -- I hope you have better luck.

gajojo wrote:: Point A (15) --Freedom at the birth of a century: No real clue, but I will throw out two thoughts. 1) I have wondered if this could refer to Liberia (in that Liberia means freedom). I don’t think it could have referred to Simms since from everything I have read, he was pro slavery. However, the verse seems to move to a contrast thing with the “Ors”, so maybe there is an intentional comparison of freedom vs. slavery—but how this line helps us find a casque is beyond me. 2) My other thought is that maybe “Freedom at the birth of a century” could refer to the Jasper Monument (15). Jasper distinguished himself in the defense of Fort Moultrie (then called Fort Sullivan) on June 28, 1776. Thomas Jefferson's wrote the Declaration of Independence in June of 1776. BP published the book in 1982. That is pretty close to the bicentennial. Could it be a nod toward 1776?—I wonder if that year is anywhere on the Jasper Monument. Century—100 years? Bicentennial—200 years? I know—it is a bad stretch, but from my perspective, this line either has nothing to do with any landmark in WPG (rather a Liberia reference) or it is has to do with the Jasper Monument. There seems to be a fairly solid consensus that the "Freedom" line refers to Denmark Vesey, a Charleston slave who purchased his freedom after winning a lottery in 1799. There are several historical landmarks recognizing his place in Charleston history around the area of WPG. Also, there was a good amount of controversy around the time BP was putting The Secret together over a painting of Vesey that hangs in the Gaillard Municipal Auditorium. That said, new interpretations are always interesting to consider.

Vesey has been a focal point at times but I think there's other considerations that might fit better. Freedom also means Liberated. "Freedom at the birth of a century" could be a person born in Liberia more than 100 years ago. Hilary Richard Wright Johnson (b. 1837) became the first African born President of Liberia in 1884. The link that Charleston has to Liberia is significant and the connection of Liberia's Edward Wilmot Blyden as referenced to naming of twins Edwin and Edwina in Abroad in America also derserves consideration.

erexere wrote:: Vesey has been a focal point at times but I think there's other considerations that might fit better. Freedom also means Liberated. erexere wrote:: "Freedom at the birth of a century" could be a person born in Liberia more than 100 years ago. Hilary Richard Wright Johnson (b. 1837) became the first African born President of Liberia in 1884. erexere wrote:: The link that Charleston has to Liberia is significant and the connection of Liberia's Edward Wilmot Blyden as referenced to naming of twins Edwin and Edwina in Abroad in America also derserves consideration. Are you saying this is a reference to Liberia because freedom and liberation are synonyms? Why not just say "Liberated at the birth of a century" then? I'm not sure I follow. Why would BP speak of "the birth of a century" if he was just talking about something that happened 100 years ago? And I don't at all understand the connection to Hilary Richard Wright Johnson. He wasn't born anything close to 100 years before BP buried the casks and he became president less than 100 years before BP buried the casks. Therefore, no connection to birth or century exists. Every clue doesn't have to connect to the same thing. For instance, the Haitian Revolution was also approximately at the birth of the 19th century and plenty of things COULD connect to that. I think BP mostly wanted to highlight a bunch of interesting historical truths about the places he buried the casques. There's way too much Denmark Vesey evidence to deny it as the most likely interpretation. I don't see any evidence that anything else "fits better."

FlippinArkansas wrote:: Are you saying this is a reference to Liberia because freedom and liberation are synonyms? Why not just say "Liberated at the birth of a century" then? FlippinArkansas wrote:: I'm not sure I follow. Why would BP speak of "the birth of a century" if he was just talking about something that happened 100 years ago? And I don't at all understand the connection to Hilary Richard Wright Johnson. He wasn't born anything close to 100 years before BP buried the casks and he became president less than 100 years before BP buried the casks. Therefore, no connection to birth or century exists. FlippinArkansas wrote:: Every clue doesn't have to connect to the same thing. For instance, the Haitian Revolution was also approximately at the birth of the 19th century and plenty of things COULD connect to that. I think BP mostly wanted to highlight a bunch of interesting historical truths about the places he buried the casques. There's way too much Denmark Vesey evidence to deny it as the most likely interpretation. I don't see any evidence that anything else "fits better." From the International Encyclopedia (pub. 1968) wrote:: On May 30, 1822, two enslaved Afrikans betrayed Denmark Vesey, a free Afrikan who was planning the largest rebellion of enslaved Afrikans in United States history involving some 9,000 people. Telemaque, later known as "Denmark Vesey" was born around 1767, probably on the Caribbean island of Saint Thomas. Joseph Vesey, a Carolina-based slaver, purchased the boy in 1781 as part of a cargo of 390 bondpeople. During the passage to the French colony of Saint-Domingue (Haiti), Vesey noticed the child’s “beauty, alertness, and intelligence” and employed him as a cabin boy. But when the ship reached Cap François, the captain “had no use for the boy” and turned him over to his colonial agents. Either traumatized by his new life in Saint-Domingue or feigning illness, the child began to display “epileptic fits.” Returned to the docks, a physician “certified that the lad” was unwell, which cancelled the sale. When Joseph Vesey returned to Cap François on April 23, 1782, with a new cargo of Gold Coast slaves, he was forced to take the child back. The fits promptly ceased, and Vesey decided to keep him as a servant. Charleston authorities later described the child as a person of “superior power of mind & the more dangerous for it.” The captain saw only the value of a tall, muscular boy already conversant in two languages. Vesey gave the boy a new name, Telemaque, after the son of Homer’s Odysseus; over time, Carolina bondmen either punned or corrupted the name into Denmak, and then finally Denmark. In the spring of 1783, following the British evacuation of South Carolina, Joseph Vesey settled into Charleston as a ship chandler. At some point during this period, Denmark married an enslaved woman named Beck. Beck had several masters over the course of her life, but she remained married to Denmark long enough to give birth to at least three of his children. Two of his sons were named Polydore and Robert; a third, Sandy, would be the only child to be implicated in his 1822 plot. Toward the end of his life, Denmark Vesey married again. His last wife, Susan, was born enslaved around 1795. She was the only woman to carry his surname. Some historians have speculated that Vesey practiced polygamy, although no evidence exists to support the theory. On September 30, 1799, Denmark happened upon a handbill announcing the “East-Bay Lottery,” and bought a ticket. In November, Charleston newspapers declared his ticket the winner. The prize was $1,500, a princely sum that slaves who hired their time would take ten years to acquire. Joseph Vesey agreed to sell Denmark his freedom for $600; the contract was signed on December 31, 1799. After seventeen years as a Charleston slave, the thirty-three-year-old Denmark was free. Chained to the South by family ties, Denmark remained in the city and apprenticed himself to a carpenter, an easy trade to learn and a lucrative business as Charleston expanded up the peninsula. At the same time, he adopted Vesey as a surname, probably as a linguistic tie to an established businessman whose name could help to secure clients. Vesey threw his enormous energies into his business, and according to one former slave, Denmark labored “every day at de trade of carpenter” and “soon became much [re]spected” and “esteem[ed] by de white folks.” But because of competition from white carpenters, free mulattoes (whose fathers provided business contacts), and enslaved craftsmen (who lived with their masters and paid no rent), Vesey barely maintained a modest income. Despite published claims made in 1822 that he died a rich man worth nearly $8,000, there is no evidence that Vesey ever owned a single piece of property. Around 1818 Vesey joined the city’s new African Methodist Episcopal congregation, the center of Charleston’s enslaved community. Sandy Vesey also joined, as did four of Vesey’s closest friends: Peter Poyas, a literate ship carpenter; Monday Gell, an African-born Ibo who labored as a harness maker; Rolla Bennett, the manservant of Governor Thomas Bennett; and “Gullah” Jack Pritchard, an East African priest and woodworker purchased in Zinguebar in 1806. The temporary closure of the church by city authorities in June 1818 and the arrest of 140 congregants, one of them presumably Vesey, reinforced the determination of black Carolinians to maintain a place of independent worship and established the motivation for Vesey’s conspiracy. In 1820 several “Negroes was taken up” for holding a late-night service at the church, and city authorities warned that they would not tolerate class leaders conducting instructional “schools for slaves,” as “the education of such persons was forbidden by law.” The “African Church was the people,” Gell replied. He and Pritchard had considered insurrection in 1818, “and now they had begun again to try it.” At the age of fifty-one, Vesey briefly thought about emigrating to the English colony of Sierra Leone. But as Beck’s children remained slaves, Vesey resolved instead to orchestrate a rebellion, followed by a mass exodus from Charleston to Haiti. President Jean-Pierre Boyer had recently encouraged black Americans to bring their skills and capital to his beleaguered republic. Vesey did not intend to tarry in Charleston long enough for white military power to present an effective counterassault. “As soon as they could get the money from the Banks, and the goods from the stores,” Rolla insisted, “they should hoist sail” for Saint-Domingue and live as free men. Vesey planned the escape for nearly four years. His chief lieutenants included Poyas, Gell, Rolla Bennett, and “Gullah” Jack Pritchard. Although there are no reliable figures for the number of recruits, Charleston alone was home to 12,652 slaves. Pritchard, probably with some exaggeration, boasted that he had 6,600 recruits on the plantations across the Cooper and Ashley rivers. The plan called for Vesey’s followers to rise at midnight on Sunday, July 14—Bastille Day—slay their masters, and sail for Haiti and freedom. As one southern editor later conceded: “The plot seems to have been well devised, and its operation was extensive.” The plot unraveled in June 1822 when two slaves revealed the plan to their owners. Mayor James Hamilton called up the city militia and convened a special court to try the captured insurgents. Vesey was captured at Beck’s home on June 21 and hanged on July 2, together with Rolla, Poyas, and three other rebels. In all, thirty-five slaves were executed. Forty-two others, including Sandy Vesey, were sold outside the United States; some, if not all, became slaves in Spanish Cuba. Robert Vesey lived to rebuild the African Church in the fall of 1865. I think Preiss made a conscious choice to use the word freedom over liberated. Why that would be the case, I'm still guessing. For instance, I like the idea that "birth of a century" applies to the start or founding of our nation in 1776 and that "a century" could apply equally to either the first 100 years or second 100 years passing, thus the years 1877 and 1977 might pertain. I thought to cross reference Freedom and those dates and I discovered an interesting recipient for the Presidential Medal of Freedom, awarded to First Lady "Bird" Johnson in 1977. The subject of "birds" in the verse then being an important aspect of catching the reference to that particular First Lady. I feel it's important to explore Charleston's connection to Liberia. Discovered in Abroad in America (pub. 1976) Edward Wilmot Blyden is a direct link to twins named Edwin and Edwina. After his stay in the United States in 1874, he traveled back to Liberia and wrote many letters supporting further efforts to emigrate freed African Americans, primarily the "Negro" as opposed to the "Mulatto". In 1878, a steamship left Charleston's port in what was known as the Liberian Exodus. hxxp://docsouth.unc.edu/church/liberian/liberian.html Hilary R.W. Johnson is just a guess on my part. I wouldn't rule him out just for not being born exactly 100 years before Preiss hid the casques. His birth is significant in the same way as we would recognize Virginia Dare in N.C., she being the first "White" child born in the British Colonies of the New World, while Johnson is the first African born person in Liberia of African American decent. Consider the birth reference in the Litany of the Jewels: Africa's Diamond, earth born star, bright harvest of the midnight rock. I think it's justifiable to consider a connection to President Johnson of Liberia. At this time, the only conclusion I'm able to make is that the name "Johnson" helps us connect the events of the murder reported on April 8th, 1873 at the Cape Romaine Lighthouse by Keeper Andrew Johnson. There's good historic context to consider Vesey's role in Charleston, but I'm not absolutely sure the verse has him in mind when it says "Freedom at the birth of a century". We have to keep asking ourselves WHY each piece of the verse/image puzzle is relevant. I agree that ever clue doesn't need to connect to the same thing. Often in the past, I would try too hard to establish multiple connects. Now, I try to see why a connection is necessary and to establish the accessibility of the supporting clues. I can Google all day, but that doesn't help me if someone couldn't pull out an Encyclopedia and look up something like this fine example for Denmark Vesey:

Note the necklace chain of the Sumter medal here in image 2. The first neck worn civillian medal in the US was introduced by Kennedy in 1963 by executive order 11085. The Presidential medal of Freedom... (superceeding Harry S. Truman's "Medal of Freedom" in 1945).

erexere wrote:: I think Preiss made a conscious choice to use the word freedom over liberated. Why that would be the case, I'm still guessing. For instance, I like the idea that "birth of a century" applies to the start or founding of our nation in 1776 and that "a century" could apply equally to either the first 100 years or second 100 years passing, thus the years 1877 and 1977 might pertain. I thought to cross reference Freedom and those dates and I discovered an interesting recipient for the Presidential Medal of Freedom, awarded to First Lady "Bird" Johnson in 1977. The subject of "birds" in the verse then being an important aspect of catching the reference to that particular First Lady. erexere wrote:: I feel it's important to explore Charleston's connection to Liberia. Discovered in Abroad in America (pub. 1976) Edward Wilmot Blyden is a direct link to twins named Edwin and Edwina. After his stay in the United States in 1874, he traveled back to Liberia and wrote many letters supporting further efforts to emigrate freed African Americans, primarily the "Negro" as opposed to the "Mulatto". In 1878, a steamship left Charleston's port in what was known as the Liberian Exodus. hxxp://docsouth.unc.edu/church/liberian/liberian.html erexere wrote:: Hilary R.W. Johnson is just a guess on my part. I wouldn't rule him out just for not being born exactly 100 years before Preiss hid the casques. His birth is significant in the same way as we would recognize Virginia Dare in N.C., she being the first "White" child born in the British Colonies of the New World, while Johnson is the first African born person in Liberia of African American decent. Consider the birth reference in the Litany of the Jewels: Africa's Diamond, earth born star, bright harvest of the midnight rock. I think it's justifiable to consider a connection to President Johnson of Liberia. At this time, the only conclusion I'm able to make is that the name "Johnson" helps us connect the events of the murder reported on April 8th, 1873 at the Cape Romaine Lighthouse by Keeper Andrew Johnson. erexere wrote:: There's good historic context to consider Vesey's role in Charleston, but I'm not absolutely sure the verse has him in mind when it says "Freedom at the birth of a century". We have to keep asking ourselves WHY each piece of the verse/image puzzle is relevant. As I said before, it's interesting to consider other possibilities but I don't really see the point of reaching for something with less connection to Charleston in a historical sense than Denmark Vesey. He's not just some random person. There are literally endless interpretations for the "birds" reference so why would Lady Bird Johnson be the one that makes the most sense, historically? What is her connection to Charleston? Yes. The Edwin/Edwina line is another reference to Charleston's history. BP is walking us through some of the important historical and immigration connections to Africa. It really doesn't have to be complicated so unless there's some reason to focus on Liberia in Charleston, what's the point? Is any of this supported by the image or the verse? You jump from "freedom" to liberation to Liberia to Hilary Johnson to Lady Bird Johnson to a murderous lighthouse keeper who also happens to have the same name (a very, very, very common one at that) to lead us to Cape Romaine? Again, any of this supported elsewhere? In the painting of Denmark Vesey that hangs in the Gaillard Auditorium (blocks from WPG) he is portrayed from behind with the congregation "harken[ing] to the words" that he's speaking. His house (most likely not his actual house) is an historical landmark in Charleston (blocks from WPG) and he was instrumental in founding the AME church in Charleston, which is kind of a big deal, historically. Why is all of this important? Most likely BP wanted searchers to understand the deep connections between DV and the city of Charleston, particularly because he had become a controversial figure in the late 1970s when BP was doing his research. Denmark Vesey might not get us closer to the casque but that is the case with so many of the clues. Obviously your time is your own but it seems to me that there are other more controvertible parts to this puzzle which may be more worthy.

Yes, Johnson is a common name. I'm exploring and explaining just one approach best I can. I'm not saying its the best approach, just an option for consideratuon, so you might want to adjust the tone of your arguement. Note the use of the word "or" being used to connect the various lines after "harken". I believe that LINK is expected to be some commonality. What is that? Harken, by the way, doesnt mean only spoken words, just words that are given special attention, written or otherwise. Im exploring the track that harken is being used in the sense that there is a subject of leadership involved. We might harken to Vesey leading a revolt, or MLK delivering his speech, or the words of our President. I explored the name Johnson first as common as it is when I learned the Keeper story, significant for a number of reasons: April 8th event (on the eighth a scene), being a murder (the scene of a crime), his wife buried a box of diamond jewelery and other valuables on the Cape Romaine island (Treasure on an Island ties in with the Robert Louis Stevenson reference), Cape Romaine's two lighthouses might be thought of as twins (giving reason for the use of Edwin/Edwina), and the Keepers name was Andrew Johnson same as the Vice President of Abraham Lincoln (White house close at hand, such as when VP becomes acting President as happened when Lincoln was shot at the theater). I've looked into the "neck order" selection of medals introduced in US history. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neck_order Medals of Honor, Merit, Valor, Freedom, etc. If the medal of Sumter featuring a single star in image 2 is any indication, then the medal of Freedom is possibly an accessible idea readers of the Secret in 1982. I dont know the details of the public record for the Presidential Medal of Freedom, but in combination with "birth of a century" being specifically the first year of a century in terms of US with a beginning year of 1776, then 1877 and 1977 are both candidates. As common as the name Johnson may be, there is room for consideration that "Bird" Johnson is an important discovery as we stand and listen (hearken) to the birds. Also, in terms of lat and long, Cape Romaine isnt to be ruled out, since people have argued that it is too far away from Charleston. If the lat/long are to be adhered to, than any place within about 50 miles is possible, since then you'd be looking at a new lat or long, thats what it means to be "too far away". My guess about Liberias first African born President is just a guess. Its possibly a blip on the "radar" or its just coincidental. He ties in only vaguely given he held the same job as Blyden as Secretary of Foreign Affairs and later became President. His birth has importance only as much as people might argue some detail about Virginia Dare in search of Image 3's casque near Roanoke, since she was the first American born English person of the Colonies. The question is whether this information is accessible to BP's 1982 audience and whether it fits his paradigm for the Fair Folk treasure hiding. I think he uses uniquely important details and makes work for the keen observer. Symbolism and near exact matches are blended in to carry specific ideas that point to a location. If there is a "bar that binds" to be found at Cape Romaine's lighthouses, then I think the water cistern drum barrel standing above ground is an option. A "bar" is a place you might go if you're thirsty, so why not go to a water cistern which holds (hold = to bind) water. Returning to the linking of ideas after harken: perhaps fatboaC refers to Lady "Bird" Johnson receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom, perhaps Edwin/Edwina's Blyden links us to Liberia, perhaps May 1913 is the birth if the most recent Liberian President Tolbert, and perhaps April 8th is our murder scene involving a man with the same full name as a US President, Andrew Johnson, same last name as a previous Liberian President in Blyden's time, same last name as a "Bird". Maybe thats what our harkening is to determine.

erexere wrote:: Returning to the linking of ideas after harken: perhaps fatboaC refers to Lady "Bird" Johnson receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom, perhaps Edwin/Edwina's Blyden links us to Liberia, perhaps May 1913 is the birth if the most recent Liberian President Tolbert, and perhaps April 8th is our murder scene involving a man with the same full name as a US President, Andrew Johnson, same last name as a previous Liberian President in Blyden's time, same last name as a "Bird". Maybe thats what our harkening is to determine. I suppose I should reiterate that I'm not saying this isn't interesting, just that it is demonstrably much more tenuous than the WPG interpretation. A couple of thoughts/points of clarification: 1.) Tolbert was assassinated in 1980 by Samuel Doe and other revolutionaries. If May 1913 (when Tolbert was born) is another Liberia reference, it is also another death by violence reference (to go along with the lighthouse murderer) and in that case, you maybe should look for others in the verse. (I would posit that Vesey's life also ended violently after his freedom was bought just before the birth of a century.) 2.)I haven't read a good explanation for the spelling of "harken" as opposed to the much more common "hearken" and I think it may be significant. 3.) Since this is the thread for Image 2, do you have any image matches for your theory?

Hmm. Let me reset fkr a moment, because I am not opposed to WPG and other ideas and then my own exposition has my mind blown. I'm not fully convinced of much other than the references to Robert Louis Stevenson and Blyden. I havent found any image matches to sync anything together in the way the Cleveland or Chicago puzzles demonstrate the integration of visual clues. The Sumter and Charleston shapes are clearly symbolic of looking at a map. The woman seems most like the Persephone statue in town. Oh, and the SC state shape looks apparent in either the branches or wings (i forget which). My main take on the image is that it is stocked with symbolism. The lion represents Africa but might also be symbolic for the Sun or the subject of trophy hunting or the fact that a lions roar has a huge range. The lepidoptera woman represents something like an Atlas, Luna, or Polyphemus moth, which sounds like Greek mythology stuff, perhaps symbolizing the Moon. The tribal mask might symbolize hunting. Keeping those things in mind, especially the possible blend of Greek mytbology, I wondered about any examples of fraternal twins (like the Edwin/Edwina) and quickly hit on Zeus and Leto having fraternal twin children Apollo (Sun) and Artemis (Moon/Hunting). That blew my mind, since notionally I couldnt fathom how it linked to a location method. As for Vesey, I continue to keep in mind the Greek name he once lived by, Telemaque, same name as son of Odysseus. That is certainly a hook for thinking about Greek mythology.

Unknown: verb 1. skin the head and neck of (an animal) to prepare a hunting trophy As I wondered if the reference to fraternal twins to Blyden was selected for some added reason, and I found Apollo/Artemis was another case albeit a wild example, I didnt see that their names followed Zeus like Edward -> Edwin/Edwina, but I did learn something mini-mind-blowing about their mother Leto. She isn't notable for much other than being a lunar goddess, she was cursed by Zeus' jealous wife Hera to never be able to have children on land, but Leto discovered the Island of Cos was an exception for its floating above the sea floor, disconnected from the Earth itself, allowing her to give birth to Apollo and Artemis. I learned of something called "cos lettuce" for its origin to the Greek island Cos. Its better known as romaine lettuce. So maybe thats an idea involved with identifying Cape Romaine. A definition for the word cape: Large lion head w/ mane Birthplace of mythological fraternal twins named Cos and origin of romain lettuce

Revisiting one of my favorite image connects, though it shouldnt really considered a match since an oval or circular shape is non-unique but in this particular landscape and circumstance where one would be encouraged to climb the octagonal 150 foot lighthouse stairs, there is no othwr option but to look down upon the conical, light-absent flat top of the old 85 foot lighthouse, You'll see the remnants of its old above ground cistern, positioned in a way toward which the one shaded daisy pedal might be pointed.

Well, after spending a month working on Image 2 I finally stopped stalling and sent off an email request for a permit to dig. Fingers crossed, wish me luck! I still won't be back in Charleston until later this year, but I figured I'd send in the request early in case bureaucracy happens. In any case, the casque ain't found if it's still in the ground... FWIW, I'd say there's only about a 50/50 chance that this request will be approved. In the event that it's declined or I just never hear back, I'll start writing up my solution to post either here or on my own blog. The theory is built on a lot of the work that you all have previously done, plus 3 or 4 additional items that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere yet. Hopefully the thought process and resources I used will be helpful to some other hunters.

Can't wait to see those three or four additional items good luck!

Good luck James! Thanks for the update. I think its safe to assume you're not interested in the Cape Romaine approach. I have some updates for Cape Romaine following a fact checking of the mythological elements that may be involved. I was mistaken when I said Leto gave birth to twins Apollo and Artemis on the island of Cos. Leto's birthplace is Cos, but Apollo and Artemis were born on Delos after Leto, transformed into a bird (quail), landed there. Delos is the site of the Terrace of Lions, at least a dozen great stone lion statues stand in honor of Apollo.

erexere wrote:: I have some updates for Cape Romaine following a fact checking of the mythological elements that may be involved. I was mistaken when I said Leto gave birth to twins Apollo and Artemis on the island of Cos. Leto's birthplace is Cos, but Apollo and Artemis were born on Delos after Leto, transformed into a bird (quail), landed there. Delos is the site of the Terrace of Lions, at least a dozen great stone lion statues stand in honor of Apollo. Wow...that theory makes my methodology seem almost lowbrow by comparison!

Nothing is certain. This is still a big "what if" game. Preiss was clever. Clever to what extent...unknown. A basic scavenger hunt is a collection of clues. The hunt gets more complicated when split between visual and word clues. It's further complicated when those clues entertain the possibility of abstraction or symbolic association.

Just a quick update on my own progress...after a few months of emails, the National Park Service ultimately denied my dig request. It's a little disappointing, but completely understandable given the location. The NPS staff I worked with were very open-minded about the whole thing, and they seemed pretty interested in the progress of the continuing hunt! It was a little challenging to scour Fort Moultrie for clues from the other side of the world, so special thanks goes to TJGrey and Erexere for taking a look at my I2/V5 theory. I'll try to get a write-up posted this week, just in case the resources/reasoning I used would be helpful to any of the other hunters out there.

Skunkboy wrote:: I'm pretty sure "the only standing member of a forest to the south" refers to Osceola(as in Osceola National Forest in Florida), whose tomb is in Fort Moultrie where he died while imprisoned, and whose ceremonial headdress was made from three ostrich feathers, which would connect the "wingless bird" part.  Additionally, keeping with the African theme of this puzzle, more than 50% of African slaves brought to North America were processed through Sullivan's Island. Anyhow, Osceola's tomb is probably key.  I'm in Charleston on vacation for a few more days. Fort Moultrie, here I come! Apologies for the necro-posting, but I wanted to make sure I gave proper credit since this older "wingless bird" clue really sparked my theory. I was running Google keyword searches from here in New Zealand, where the locals are known as "kiwis". Turns out that very few famous New Zealanders have ever visited Fort Moultrie, but in a related search I learned that "wingless" is considered to be a fair synonym for "flightless". The Fort Moultrie/Osceola connection popped right up in Google. Although an ostrich really does have wings, they've vestigial, which I took as a possible interpretation for "ancient dreams of flight." To avoid rehashing all of the previous Image 2/Verse 5 discussions on this thread, here's my additional thoughts. The proposed dig location that I sent to NPS was "twelve paces" (30 feet) from the west side of the USS Patapsco monument, along the Northwest Bastion of Fort Moultrie. It it turns out that BP got his cardinal directions confused, as seemed to be the case in Cleveland, then the casque would most likely be twelve heel-to-toe paces from the south side of this obelisk. Most of my "new evidence" came from the historical photos available online through the Library of Congress, as well as through the National Park Service's Open Parks Network. Both of these are amazing resources, and really helped to put all the Google Earth imagery into context. -The "White stone" could be the USS Patapsco memorial obelisk (2' wide at the base) adjacent to Osceola's grave: NPS' records list it as being made from white granite, and the most prominent name listed on it is the ship's acting paymaster, John White, the senior ranking officer among the deceased sailors. -A few cypress trees stood outside the Fort's "lionesque" sallyport until about 1983 or so, above both Osceola's grave and the Patapsco stone. (I used a bunch of old photos to confirm the timeframe, as well as some old postcards available on Ebay.) Also of interest is that these African spirits were listed as "tree fairies" on page 13 of the book. With all that in mind, I think that one last remaining cypress tree was the "only standing member of a forest to the south" (Seminole National Forest?). Here's the cypress trees (note that Osceola's grave is now slightly offset following a 1969 re-interment): And here's a few shots of the sallyport: Present Day...could the cross in the lion's mane represent this flagpole? 1960s or so...note the unique slants in the gunports, unsure if these would have still been here in 1981, after Fort Moultrie was renovated. -That lowercase 'h' in the forehead of the African mask? It *could* very well be a reference to Edgar Allen Poe's story "The Gold Bug", as Poe served as an artilleryman in H Company while he was stationed at Fort Moultrie under the name of "Edgar A. Perry". -And that damned pear? If you compare Image 2 itself against a 1981 road map (also bought from Ebay), it could very well mark the location of the Silas Pearman bridge if the cypress branch really does represent the bends in Coleman Boulevard. I also think that it may symbolize a Confederate harbor mine, which I understand were often pear-shaped. There's a lot of references to these harbor mines around the fort, but I've been unable to confirm if the one outside the Visitor's Center on Middle Street would have been in place during BP's possible visit in 1981. If so, it'd be another visual cue you could see from the dig site. Also interesting to note that the Patapsco ironclad was sunk when it ran into one of these pear-shaped mines. For what it's worth, all of this supporting info would have been available to BP if he had taken a guided tour of Fort Moultrie back in 1981, maybe with a stop in the gift shop/bookstore on the way out. Benson Lossing's "Pictorial History of the Civil War" provided the information on the harbor mines...amazingly enough, that book is still in print today! I haven't confirmed it it's actually for sale in the gift shop at Fort Sumter National Monument, though. So anyway, with the dig request denied it looks like I'm going to have to be satisfied with calling this one a "theory". NPS (quite correctly) pointed out that BP would have been breaking federal law if he'd actually buried the casque there...I imagine that 1981 must have been a completely different world! Hopefully these thoughts will be helpful to hunters working a more accessible puzzle...thanks to everyone who's shared their thoughts so far. No matter if this theory is right or wrong, I've had an absolute blast digging into the history of my adopted hometown!

This is great work. My favorite part is how the guided tour was available in the same basic form. I'm thinking these sorts of insights are really key to many of the remaining puzzles. So James, what are you going to work on next?

Bad luck with the dig request, but thanks for sharing these ideas, and kudos for getting to the point of putting one in....

erexere wrote:: This is great work. My favorite part is how the guided tour was available in the same basic form. I'm thinking these sorts of insights are really key to many of the remaining puzzles. So James, what are you going to work on next? I think I'll probably drag my feet on this location around for just a little while longer...I still plan to visit Fort Sumter in October, at least to meet with the NPS team in person and thank them for all their help over the past few months. Needless to say, conducting a "rogue dig" is pretty much out of the question for this site. I'm not sure if there'd be any local media interest in the story like there has been in Milwaukee or Houston, but who knows? This may have been all it took to get me hooked on the armchair treasure hunts, though! I've been going back and forth through everyone's previous work on two other possible locations, since I'll be spending the next year back in the US. Shovel at the ready...

Well, I’m finally back home in the US, and naturally I hand-carried my copy of “The Secret” on the plane so I could hit the ground running! I'm kind of ashamed to admit this but after ten years of living in Charleston I’d never actually taken the ferry tour out to Fort Sumter, so I kind of felt obligated to hit up that spot before heading on to Fort Moultrie. It’s an amazing tour and I’d highly recommend it, but as previous posters have noted it would have been next-to-impossible for Byron Preiss to hide anything on the grounds of Fort Sumter during an hour-long visit. So, on to Fort Moultrie we went! I’ve added a few more photos below, but if anyone needs to see anything different please let me know…I took a ton of shots! As far as all the possible Edgar Allen Poe references, I wasn’t entirely sold on any of these until I got on the ground and saw the place for myself. (It’s probably been 12 years or so since I’ve gotten out to Sullivan’s, and I’d only been to Fort Moultrie once.) Before you even cross onto Sullivan’s, there’s a little marsh island called “Goldbug Island” at the foot of the bridge. The event center doesn’t look like it has any connection to the hunt, but if we’re viewing Image 2 as a possible roadmap then the location would fit in there perfectly. I’m not sure what (if any) signage this facility would have had up back in 1982, though. Also, I stopped in to the tiny branch of the Charleston County Public Library while I was up here. The great staff was very helpful…thanks CCPL! That building is also named after Poe, and the facility itself actually used to be part of Fort Moultrie. I think I remember reading this somewhere before, but apparently “Tamerlane” is the title of one of Poe’s most famous poems, and the author actually used “Tamerlane” as a pseudonym at an early point in his writing career. I couldn’t find any solid proof that this connection was related to “Lane Two”, though. As far as that “arc of light”, I’m satisfied that this could be the Charleston Light as we thought. That lighthouse has a unique rotating beacon which could be poetically described as an arc, and it’s visible as soon as you arrive on Sullivan’s. The light can be easily seen from both Middle Street and Fort Moultrie during the daytime, but the “arc” strobing effect is definitely more noticeable at night. On the way to the Fort, I also stopped to take a photo of Mugdock Castle, which is only a few houses down from the Visitor’s Center. Although this is a privately-owned home/rental facility now, it used to be the Post Chapel when the Fort was in use. I couldn’t find any period photos of the facade, but I read on the Castle’s website that the front of the building has not changed despite a recent, modern addition in the rear. Could these windows have been the inspiration for the “eyes” in the Fort Sumter pendant? Also, it seems like there were crosses everywhere! This one is from the cornerstone of Mugdock Castle, facing the sidewalk of Middle Street, but there was also a simpler design on the gravestone of General Moultrie, which is located on the waterfront behind the Visitor’s Center. Then, I took a few minutes to walk around the grounds of Stella Maris church next door. Unfortunately it wasn’t open so I couldn’t go in, but I didn’t see anything that made me suspect that building was involved in the hunt. Another user had marked an online image of a World War II monument as a possible marker for the “white stone”, but I was unable to locate that stone in the area. I couldn’t tell whether I was in the wrong spot, or if perhaps the marker had been moved at some point. After wandering around outside for a while, I finally stopped in to the Visitor’s Center to buy a ticket and check out the exhibits. NPS has a small but amazing presentation on the slave trade, and NPS did a great job of explaining the role that Sullivan’s Island played. If Byron Preiss really had intended to tell the story of African immigration with Image 2, there’s no more relevant place. Outside, the fort’s old Torpedo Storehouse is now the Administrative Offices for Fort Sumter National Monument. It looks like the naval torpedo mine would also have been in place back in 1982, and it’s definitely visible from my proposed dig site. I wasn’t able to find any direct references to the “pear” shape of these mines, though, so that information would have had to come from a tour guide or a reference book. Also, here’s a present-day view of the sallyport, looking down from the observation deck atop the Visitor’s Center. This is only my opinion, but I think that the sallyport looks awfully “lionesque” if you squint at it! If you look at that view through an artist’s eyes, the leaves of those tall palmetto trees (installed in 1975) could bear a resemblance to a lion’s mane. From there, Osceola’s grave and the Patapsco monument are right across Middle Street. I noticed that there was no reference to Osceola’s ostrich feather headdress, so again, that information would have had to come from either a tour guide, a history book, or one of the other area attractions (like the Charleston Museum downtown, where I found this painting.) The Patapsco monument obelisk next to it was very hard to read, since it looked like it was in need of a cleaning. I had to take cell-phone photos and mess with the filters in order to read all the names, but I wanted to be sure that there were no sailors named “West” who died at sea. There weren’t any other possibilities for a “West” side, so I think that Byron Preiss probably had his cardinal directions correct at this site. “At twelve paces, from the west side” would put you against the brick wall of the fort’s Northwest Bastion if you measured a pace as one full, two-footed stride. This measurement is still a little unclear to me since I also “paced” off twelve heel-to-toe steps, which wound up being about half that distance to the brick wall. Some of the old photos I pulled up showed a small (cypress??) shrub standing on that same spot, which could easily have been used as a marker. And just as a side note, even though Sullivan’s Island was “ground zero” when Hurricane Hugo hit back in 1989, it looks like this particular piece of ground hasn’t changed any since 1982, with the exception of the missing trees of course! For me, though, the main selling point for this particular dig site is that it’s relatively quiet and remote—Byron Preiss could have quickly and easily dug a spot here in the middle of the night, even if the dig site is in full view of the street. Also, the Visitor’s Center on Middle Street was created for America’s bicentennial, so it would have been a new and notable attraction during that era. I’d love to have the opportunity to review some of the Fort’s brochures or exhibits from 1982…as I write this the city of Charleston is planning to go ahead with construction of an African-American museum downtown, and it’d be fascinating to see how much attention this same story got only 35 years ago! So anyway, I’ve marked the spot for both NPS and the South Carolina State Archaeologist, so please keep your fingers crossed that either one of them might have reason to dig/excavate around the sallyport in the near future. I’d love to be able to close this casque out and stop calling my ideas a “theory”!

Steady on Josh, leave some for the rest of us... (Welcome to the madhouse.)

Everyone round here has their theories...but narrowing it down to a couple of feet, digging a hole, and pulling out a casque - or persuading someone else to - that's pretty tricky.

Hi JamesV - I really enjoyed reading your write up and looking at the photos you took. Sullivan's Island is such a relaxing and historic spot. I saw your diagram of where you think the casque is held, near the grave site in front of the Fort. Seems very logical based on the clues. Too bad digging is not allowed at this point. I hope you find a way to get in there. My only question on that theory is: Would that ground, even though a few paces away, be considered a grave site? Only asking because that was one of the rules; that nothing would be in a cemetery. Although, not a cemetery, still a sacred burial ground. I would like to get your thoughts. Regards, Mac

Macfos, welcome to the hunt. NPS has actually been very responsive throughout the last year, and especially since the "Expedition Unknown" episode first aired. Please keep your fingers crossed--you never know what 2018 might bring! Regarding the gravesite, here's the language used in the original rules: "The following places do not hold any treasure: (a) any life-threatening location, such as a dangerous highway embankment, a contaminated area or active railway track (b) any cemetery (c) any public or private flower bed (d) any property owned by the contributors to the book, their families or friends." It's a little hard to see from my photos, but Osceola's grave is a man-sized slab of concrete laying flat on the ground. The upright Patapsco monument obelisk is listed as being 2' wide at the base. While both memorials contain actual human remains, both are also clearly protected by waist-high iron fencing which was in place before 1981/1982. The casque location that I came up with would be either 5 or 10 yards away from both of these--- definitely in a sensitive area which would obviously require "permission to dig out", but also clearly outside the marked boundaries of any cemeteries/sacred burial sites.

Hello James - thanks, I'm really enjoying these hunts for the "secrets". The lion's forehead is just another clue to verifying that the casque is in Charleston. Its been educational to read more and more of the ideas being thrown about on all these threads. It has really helped me to take a step back from what seems "obvious" and reconsider other possibilities. I'm only one week into this after the Expedition Unknown episode and am really loving the challenge. I will try to jump in with ideas and get more feedback so, thank you guys. I am trying to catch up on reading as much of the previous pages as possible so I can see what everyone's thoughts are so bear with me. In fact, after realigning some thoughts today I'm more into the thinking that (and this has probably already been discussed): Between two arms extended (Low Battery and High Battery sea walls) Below the bar that binds (Connection of the sea walls) Beside the long palm's shadow (Where the setting sun creates a shadow of the extended arm from the Defender's Statue) Embedded in the sand (This refers to the landscape "beds" (em bed ded) up against the seawall where the shadow hits) And keep in mind, those are not flower beds so they can be dug next to the area between where the High Battery wall connects to the "bar" on the curve of the pennisula. My 2¢ worth, MrBackstop

Hi James - Glad to hear the NPS is interested and appears interest is growing, which helps the cause. Very good point that the graves are fenced in. I have been to Fort Moultrie many times. We are on Sullivan's Island or IOP every weekend during the spring and summer. We live just a quick drive to those beautiful beaches. Been to cold lately to get down there though. We just had 7 inches of snow here recently!! One thing that troubles me with the Charleston image is that I have not seen many thoughts or explanations/theories for the the woman in the picture, besides her wearing what are referred to as slave bracelets. Do you have any thoughts on that? Regards, Mac

Hi MrBackStop - When I first starting pouring over all of this information (I have read about 20K posts.. lol) that was my first thought. Then I remembered that the entire section of the area you are talking about was completely removed and rebuilt several years back, so if the casque was there, it is gone now. See the link below: hxxp://mip.hcss.com/most-interesting-project/mip2015/projects/battery-seawall/ I look forward to your thoughts on image 2 as you progress through the information. There is a lot to catch up on for both of us! Regards, Mac

Other portions of the image that I have not seen much conversation on are: 1. The "Sunglasses" to the right of the Lion. (To me this looks more like a boom mast and definitely not sunglasses) 2. The hidden face above the "Sunglasses" 3. The top of the lions forehead (That jagged shape seems so odd) 4. The birthmark on the Lion (Not much theory, except a reference to the base of Defender's statue, which seems like a stretch, but who knows) 5. Of course the lady, especially her hair, closed eyes and overall body position 6. The idea of a moth or butterfly In the other images that have been solved, there were major landmark clues. To me the clues that have been brought up for image 2 are just general location for Charleston. i.e. Map, coordinates, Pear (for Silas Pearman bridge), and the outline of the state in the tree branch. And of course the Africa theme for slavery trade. Are we missing specific defining landmark clues? Some clues that are very specific to me as a local are: 1. The tree branch which is definitely highway 703 that leads from Downtown to Mt. Pleasant and then directly to Sullivan's Island 2. The Pear on the branch mentioned above would be a reference to Silas Pearman bridge 3. Fort Sumter medallion shape 4. The daisy really fits the Palmetto tree on the flag, along with the shaded portion of the pair showing the crescent moon Would like to get thoughts on this. Regards, Mac

I am on the ground in Charleston. Have been for 15 years. Regards, Mac

This is the closest thing I have seen to the medallion that looks like fort Sumter. It is a plaque at Battery Park. hxxp://www.charlestonbatterytour.com/ch ... plaque.jpg

Hi pokerface - Very interesting. The wording of the sign does make the shape of Fort Sumter. Where is that plaque located? I have never seen it. Regards, Mac

It is at White Point Garden on the battery wall. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7693332 ... 704!8i4352 Note this whole area as previous posts have mentioned has been renovated so where it sat in 1982 I have no idea. '

I agree with Josh. It is either not the correct location or it has been lost. Regards, Mac

pokerfacegsh wrote:: It is at White Point Garden on the battery wall. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7693332 ... 704!8i4352 Note this whole area as previous posts have mentioned has been renovated so where it sat in 1982 I have no idea. ' Yeah, that's quite fun, well spotted.

Macfos wrote:: Hi MrBackStop - When I first starting pouring over all of this information (I have read about 20K posts.. lol) that was my first thought. Then I remembered that the entire section of the area you are talking about was completely removed and rebuilt several years back, so if the casque was there, it is gone now. See the link below: hxxp://mip.hcss.com/most-interesting-project/mip2015/projects/battery-seawall/ I look forward to your thoughts on image 2 as you progress through the information. There is a lot to catch up on for both of us! Regards, Mac Thanks for that image Mac. Very cool to see this image and you're right the casque could be gone. However, the photo of the rebuild only reinforces my solve. hxxp://mip.hcss.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... tery-1.jpg Look at the first bush in the landscape bed. The construction photo shows undisturbed sandy ground to both sides. I believe the casque is on the right or left or even below that bush. Why? You ask? I believe the #33 in the Artwork represents the 1933 triangulation marker on the sea wall about 4-5 feet north of the edge of "The Turn". The marker is smaller than a cell phone in the Sea Wall between he first and second post just North of the new cement. Which brings me to another point, the shape of the post is represented on the forehead of the mask,...some have called a skull. That skull actually represents the Old City Jail (built in 1680 which is a reason for the #80 in the lion's mane), but I digress. The setting sun creates a shadow from the Defender's Staue extended arm (palm) on the sea wall near that 1933 triangulation marker and verse states: Below the bar that binds ( The Turn ) Beside the long palm's shadow ( The palm of the extended hand on the Defender's Statue ) So if the treasure has not already been discovered, it is embedded in that landscape bed in the area of that bush. Depending on when that bush was planted and how shallow it was planted ( doesn't need a lot of depth for a young bush ) could mean it might be under or partially under that bush or "Beside" another bush against that wall. MrBackstop

JoshCornell wrote:: you are close man, but that is not the right location you have linked on your google image... Look at the street view and if you look to the left and down on the ground you can see the marker. It is on the ground in the turn of the battery. There is also another marker to the right but I cannot make out what it is or find a picture.

Macfos wrote:: I agree with Josh. It is either not the correct location or it has been lost. Regards, Mac Or maybe that Wiki site has just been using the wrong Verse for this particular Image?

Unknown: Which brings me to another point, the shape of the post is represented on the forehead of the mask,...some have called a skull. That skull actually represents the Old City Jail (built in 1680 which is a reason for the #80 in the lion's mane), but I digress. Interesting idea...but the Old City Jail has to be at least half a mile away, next to the Beaufain Street housing projects. I'd probably give more credence to this idea if you could at least see the jail from WPG. I started working from the "established" I2/V6 pairing myself last year, but ended up going back to the drawing board mainly due to the lack of visual confirmations near any of the proposed dig sites along the Battery. Definitely take the time to read through the I2 and V5/V6 threads in their entirety-- it's fascinating to see how these ideas have been examined over time. Keep hunting!

JamesV wrote:: Interesting idea...but the Old City Jail has to be at least half a mile away, next to the Beaufain Street housing projects. I'd probably give more credence to this idea if you could at least see the jail from WPG. I started working from the "established" I2/V6 pairing myself last year, but ended up going back to the drawing board mainly due to the lack of visual confirmations near any of the proposed dig sites along the Battery. Definitely take the time to read through the I2 and V5/V6 threads in their entirety-- it's fascinating to see how these ideas have been examined over time. Keep hunting! I'm just saying the Old City Jail reinforces the Charleston area. If you look at the Mask/Skull you will notice the skull shape is just like that of the unusual front windows with the 2 smaller windows inside the one large pointed opening. Also, the "eyes" of the Mask/Skull appear to be upside down jail windows with bars on them. And like I said, the casque could have been found by someone other than us on this board especially if that entire landscape bed has been searched. Since I'm a newbie at this let me ask this question, "Are all the clues supposed to be able to be seen from the treasue spot?" I mean in Chicago, could the casque be seen from the Chicago Water Tower or the statues? I haven't really looked at the SOLVED images yet. thanks

Unknown: by JamesV » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:19 am Or maybe that Wiki site has just been using the wrong Verse for this particular Image? Correct James. I meant for consideration of verse 6. Regards, Mac

My theory is that the cask is actually in White Point Garden and not along the battery. (If still present given multiple floods, hurricanes etc.) I think the reference to treasure island is important in Verse 6 is important. When I think about pirates and how they hid their treasure, I think about X marks the spot. I feel the rest of the verse is giving the four points to make an X from points in the park. Palm trees can live up to 100 years and assuming none have been destroyed over time. (That is a big assumption) There is one palm tree just behind the Confederate Defenders of Charleston statue that appears to be the largest in the park. "Beside the long palm's shadow" would indicate it is near this tree. Between two arms could be a line drawn between the statues or the cannons. Below the bar that binds. There are metal bars that bind the blocks along the edge of the Confederate Defenders of Charleston Statue near where a cross point of the arms and the shadow would sit. Also, I have not seen any thoughts about the verse Edwin and Edwina named after him. One of the most famous pirates was Edward Teach otherwise known as Blackbeard. I know he occupied Charleston for some time. This is also the same time that Stede Bonnet was captured. (The memorial stone about pirate hanging in White Point Garden.)

Here I juxtaposed the two images I think you're talking about: I guess I kind of see it. But a lot of times I miss obvious features, so I'm not the best judge of this Also, you GOTTA check out those Chi and Cle solves, it's easily the #1 thing that will help you with new ones. Welcome to the hunt!

Hi drunknerds - What year is the picture above image 2 you posted? Also, I am going to scout some spots in about 30 minutes... Will be gone most of the afternoon and will post my findings later this evening, if anything of interest comes up. Regards, Mac

So the forth sumpter pentagon's pole-and-shadow can also be thought of as a clock face that reads 4:00. 4:00 PM is also about the time the sun's position would cause that shadow. So... let's check out the shadow of the palms by the Moultrie statue at 4 pm... To the satellite!

Macfos wrote:: Hi drunknerds - What year is the picture above image 2 you posted? Also, I am going to scout some spots in about 30 minutes... Will be gone most of the afternoon and will post my findings later this evening, if anything of interest comes up. Regards, Mac Hi! It's the Old City Jail in Charleston that MrBackstop was referencing a few posts earlier

Caution yourselves to consider the shadow searching concept requiring sun position and time of day can be very difficult to pull off or replicate. Kit Williams used that method, so it is possible. Another read of the word shadow could simply mean one thing is perceived as less than or diminished by comparison to another. Yet another interpretation could point to following in someone else's footsteps or repeating the same task.

erexere wrote:: Kit Williams used that method, so it is possible. Europe was forever trolled by a guy hiding a treasure in England in a location that can only be found when it is sunny.

Exere, that's a good point with time and time of year. If the 4:00 position represents April as the diamond does, then the angle of the setting sun in April will be later in the day and several feel away from where that is today. Good Luck and a big go get'em to Mac!

I think April is a big part of this puzzle. Also, I think it's important to think "where would a Baobab Tree Spirit think to hide the casque?" I get that Charleston has its deep historic roots, but how exactly does that lead us to a perspective formed by the wood "in-dwellers".

erexere wrote:: Caution yourselves to consider the shadow searching concept requiring sun position and time of day can be very difficult to pull off or replicate. Kit Williams used that method, so it is possible. Another read of the word shadow could simply mean one thing is perceived as less than or diminished by comparison to another. Yet another interpretation could point to following in someone else's footsteps or repeating the same task. I don't think it has to be exact because it just says near.

Sure. I suppose he could've buried it at 4pm's shadow and assumed someone could solve the clues to get near the same spot. Upon failing to find the exact spot, he would've stepped in to say they are close enough.

Maybe of interest. The 80 in the lions mane. 80 broad street is city hall, which backs up to Washington Square. Has a statue of Tilrod. See explanation under verse 5 thread to Simms and Tilrod. Regards, Mac

Since I wrote up my I2/V5 "solve" on 12/31 ( https://jamesvachowski.com/2017/12/31/t ... ns-island/ ), it's been cool to hear such positive responses from so many people. This morning our local newspaper, the Post and Courier, ran a short feature story on the hunt. It's a little light on specifics since the reporter was concerned about the possibility of alerting vandal diggers, but here's the link to the story in case anyone's interested: https://www.postandcourier.com/news/mys ... 45303.html As far as I know, this is the first time that the Charleston casque has received any kind of media coverage. Here's hoping it'll generate some new interest in the search. Keep hunting!

Hi JamesV - Very cool article! Excited to see that type of promotion for our area! Regards, Mac

Interesting find. Marion square has been putting up a Christmas tree every year since 1913. Maybe reference to the "ornaments" hanging on the branch? Also, if you look at Marion Square the paths make a big X across the park. With the piracy theme, maybe X marks the spot?? Regards, Mac

Does anyone know how many holes the U.S.S. Maine Capstan has total?

I would guess 16 by looking at the different angles of photos I could find.

I thought the Daisy might represent the USS Maine Capstan but it has 17 petals :/

So in the image, the woman really bothers me. Meaning there has really been no solid idea of what she and her wings mean. I said this in another post, but it bears repeating: "Why do we have a lack of specific location clues in image 2, but other images have very specific landmarks, etc?" Image 2 only appears to have links to the general city, Charleston SC. Brought me to thinking about the book in general. All of the Fairy talk. Do we assume maybe she is a Fairy? If so, should we be looking at things that pertain to the Ferry (transport) industry that used to be in Charleston? Or the many streets named Ferry? Also, does the woman not resemble Christ on the cross, with the closed eyes, tilted head, crown of thorns and legs crossed? Thoughts? Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: So in the image, the woman really bothers me. Meaning there has really been no solid idea of what she and her wings mean...Do we assume maybe she is a Fairy? Bear in mind that images are associated with nationalities, and these play a part in the locations; eg Image 4 is Greece, and the casque was in the Greek garden. It's unlikely, though not impossible, that these nationalities have any more important clues to offer; their clues have probably already been spent in identifying the cities and their immigrant populations. But anyway, they were part of the foundation of the puzzle, and are discussed in the book's introduction. This talks about how the fairy spirits of Africa "fluttered down like a windfall of butterflies". The woman in Image 1 is clearly a butterfly, so whatever else it might mean, it's a clue to link it with Africa, which leads to Charleston.

Hi whiterabbit - Yes, I agree with your statement. The problem I keep running into personally is that the clues only lead back to Charleston in general. I keep looking for something unique that would be an identifier for a more specific location, such as the post and railing for Chicago or the water tower or the horse rider statue. I may just need to change my train of thought, but the lack of specific imagery clues has me baffled. So my strategy is to visit a long list of places I have gathered clues on and just look around, read signs and check things out, in the hopes that a shape or idea I see on the ground will some how connect me to something that has been missed in the drawing. If not, oh well, I get to be a tourist in my own city, spend time with my family and learn some history! Regards, Mac

Here's my thoughts on the woman. She is the capstan. Remember, ships are referred to in the feminine persuasion. Her wings are the different peninsulas of Charleston and include the different cannons (circles with white centers) in the area. The two on the lower wings are the ones in WPG today right next to the Moultrie statue. The white edges to the butterfly wings represent the white oyster shell sands that wash up all over these beaches. Bare with me here and of course, I could be out of my mind, but the highlights across her stomach remind me of the holes at the top of the capstan. The shadow under her ribs and the "holes" are the top of the capstan with the highlights just above the ribs, along with her chest is the top of the capstan. As we move lower, the dark shadow moving down to her groin and thighs is the rest of the capstan. Her legs rising out of the smoky blue color are symbolic of her (the capstan) rising from the sea after being retrieved from the USS Maine. And I'll add this, the white triangle (purposeful triangle) in the cloth around her waist points directly to the diamond. These are many of the reasons I believe in White Point Garden as the location. The landscape bed along the battery seems like a good spot but the question remains...where? Many here and elsewhere have said that bed has been completely poked, prodded and dug. So my other spot would be to the right of the woman, now Moultrie, in the ground near the walk.

I will point out she is the only nearly naked picture out of the images and the statue of the Confederate Defenders of Charleston is a nearly naked man. Coincidence?

I started a facebook group as well if anyone is interested. https://www.facebook.com/groups/452250255178033/

Could the large eye sockets of the mask in P2 be a refernce to the Poe story of Gold Bug, especially since the mask is gold and V5 talks about pacing out from the tree as it does in Poes Gold Bug?? Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: Could the large eye sockets of the mask in P2 be a refernce to the Poe story of Gold Bug Yep, you'll find various discussions of Gold Bug if you use the forum search. Possible Poe references in V5: The Balloon Hoax - concerning a balloon that lands on Sullivan's Island - "a wingless bird ascended" The Cask of Amontillado - "walls of solid granite". Ligeia - "The phantasmagoric effect was vastly heightened by the artificial introduction of a strong continual current of wind behind the draperies giving a hideous and uneasy animation to the whole. In halls such as these - in a bridal chamber such as this - I passed, with the Lady of Tremaine, the unhallowed hours of the first month of our marriage."

I agree with White Rabbit’s solution here. The solution proposed to Fort Moultrie is spot on. The only part I would amend would be the ending. The reference to “Osceola” I believe is the white stone in front of Fort Moultrie, ten paces from the west side, you have your precise spot. Put this one in the “solved but not recoverable” category.

Also let me add this to my previous post. The girl is the capstan. Notice how in her bikini top the folds look like palm leaves and the tie in the middle like coconuts. So what I'm saying is the capstan IS the palm...Symbolically as a palm tree casting a long shadow and metaphorically as a human hand palm. When a capstan like this one is used posts stick out of the holes to be pushed by the sailors to turn the winch and bind the ropes. The top of the capstan is the palm with the posts being the fingers.

MrBackstop wrote:: Notice how in her bikini top the folds look like palm leaves and the tie in the middle like coconuts. This is great work, definitely merits a longer observation. I'll take it from here.

It vaguely resembles a palm tree, however the only problem with that thought is that our Palm trees don't have coconuts here in SC. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: It vaguely resembles a palm tree, however the only problem with that thought is that our Palm trees don't have coconuts here in SC. Regards, Mac Nice

So perhaps the artist took some liberties with the palm tree or I just took some liberties with my vision. More importantly I see the capstan as the palm.

Hi Mr. Backstop! You mentioned the girl referencing the capstan. Have you seen the statue on at Gibbes Museum of Art on Meeting Street? I believe the girl in Image 2 is a reference to her. Animal Painter posted a picture on Oct 18, 2009 post, 6:38 pm. It is on page 25 of this thread. I read something about the way the girl is drawn as being a nod to the Flying Charleston and the Hand to Hand Charleston (dances). (Crossed legs, hand to hand and wings to fly) I thought that was pretty clever.

gajojo, that is a cool reference. She could definitely be the inspiration for our Charleston woman. Nice catch.

gajojo wrote:: Animal Painter posted a picture on Oct 18, 2009 post, 6:38 pm. It is on page 25 of this thread.

Thought the official logo is a pretty good match. hxxp://stellamarischurch.org/page/christmas-schedule-2017 Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: Thought the official logo is a pretty good match. hxxp://stellamarischurch.org/page/christmas-schedule-2017 Regards, Mac Ohhhhhh! Macfos gets in a hilarious zinger, I assume against the Catholic church

Lol... at least someone around here has a sense of humor... Regards, Mac

Looking for some help with this solve: I'm trying to take out my eyeballs, do I want to use a flathead screwdriver or a hexagonal socket wrench? Thanks in advance, Preiss was really ambiguous about this part of the puzzle

try a drumstick.

erexere wrote:: try a drumstick. That's what I was using for my initial probing. There's something down there, like 1-2". But it may just be a root

drunknerds wrote:: Looking for some help with this solve: I'm trying to take out my eyeballs, do I want to use a flathead screwdriver or a hexagonal socket wrench? Thanks in advance, Preiss was really ambiguous about this part of the puzzle I think a grapefruit spoon will work nicely.

Thanks Josh, here's what I have: The key to this picture is the eyes. Note that the lion's eyes glow like a gem. The fairies eyes are closed: She doesn't want to give away her gems. The pentagon at the bottom right resembles an african tribal mask to reinforce the African theme and direct our attention to the eyes: The key is the eyes. If you want to reveal someone's Secret, you look behind their mask Now, pay attention to the double-arched skull, which is an exact match for when I x-rayed my brain while arching my eyes: So, all I need to do is remove my own eyeballs and It's in there. But both a hex-wrench and a flathead screwdriver seem necessary, which is confusingly redundant. So I'm stuck.

JoshCornell1 wrote:: that wasnt serious...was it? If it was serious, I would have said, "I'm 100% sure about my solve, but I don't want to share details yet. All I can say is, someone's getting stabbed in the face."

drunknerds wrote:: If it was serious, I would have said, "I'm 100% sure about my solve, but I don't want to share details yet. All I can say is, someone's getting stabbed in the face." Hahahaha!

Hello all, much like a lot of people I saw the Secret on Expedition Unknown. We happen to be in Charleston the weekend after that show. A couple of things I noticed after looking at image 2 and being at White Point Garden. The old capstan statue's base was much larger than the existing Moultrie statue. There is either a metal plate over the hole that they made when they removed the capstan in 2007 or they filled it with concrete. I found some information about the companies that removed and replaced the statues. I have not had any luck contacting them to see if they have any records regarding the exchange. They are Soil Consultants Inc of Charleston and Berenyi, Inc. I have phone numbers if anyone would like to try to contact them. The reason I bring these up is I believe the casque is buried beside the path where the old capstan used to sit. The main reason i believe this is that the "birthmark" on the lion's head is almost an identical match to the 1980's view of Havana bay in Cuba, where the USS Maine was sunk. Any questions, comments, or thoughts that I am crazy are fine, just let me know. Sorry for such a long post.

Smokey Joe Would wrote:: Hello all, much like a lot of people I saw the Secret on Expedition Unknown. We happen to be in Charleston the weekend after that show. A couple of things I noticed after looking at image 2 and being at White Point Garden. The old capstan statue's base was much larger than the existing Moultrie statue. There is either a metal plate over the hole that they made when they removed the capstan in 2007 or they filled it with concrete. I found some information about the companies that removed and replaced the statues. I have not had any luck contacting them to see if they have any records regarding the exchange. They are Soil Consultants Inc of Charleston and Berenyi, Inc. I have phone numbers if anyone would like to try to contact them. The reason I bring these up is I believe the casque is buried beside the path where the old capstan used to sit. The main reason i believe this is that the "birthmark" on the lion's head is almost an identical match to the 1980's view of Havana bay in Cuba, where the USS Maine was sunk. Any questions, comments, or thoughts that I am crazy are fine, just let me know. Sorry for such a long post. This was good work. Have not heard that Havana bay theory before.

SJW, welcome to the hunt! While I respectfully disagree with you on both the location and the Image/Verse pairing, it's exciting to see "our" casque finally getting the attention it deserves.

I am trying to add the picture of Havana Harbor, but I can't figure out how to do that. Any assistance would be helpful.

Smokey Joe Would wrote:: I am trying to add the picture of Havana Harbor, but I can't figure out how to do that. Any assistance would be helpful. Hi Smokey, You have to upload the photo to an image hosting site, such as www.imgur.com . Then you can just post the link here or use the Img option to embed the .jpg into your post.

Here is a link to the image Smokey Joe is referring to: https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:4m90fk355 Regards, Mac

An interesting match proposal: In my opinion, it doesn't quite fit: The "horsehead stain" seems to have ~7 appendages, whereas I can only find 4 in Havana Bay Keep it coming though, one day we'll crack that skull

Agreed... it is close, but you can't account for a lot of the other shading. In addition to the "forehead stain" I am intrigued with the odd hairline. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: Agreed... it is close, but you can't account for a lot of the other shading. In addition to the "forehead stain" I am intrigued with the odd hairline. Regards, Mac The hairline on the lion looks like a coastline to me. I got a partial match to northern Spain, but yeah, not sure.

Unknown: gManTexas wrote: The hairline on the lion looks like a coastline to me. I got a partial match to northern Spain, but yeah, not sure. Yeah, that is what I have been looking at, but have not found anything matching... Regards, Mac

The left side seems like a close enough match. The right side, however, has those three appendages on the skull that don't translate to the one inlet on the map. Sorry everyone if I'm using the wrong map terms.

Macfos wrote:: Yeah, that is what I have been looking at, but have not found anything matching... Regards, Mac And the nose/mouth of the lion is all this https://imgur.com/a/P4w1V

MrSeabass wrote:: I'm not seeing any sort of match. It makes no sense to include something as ambiguous as that when a super clear and obvious map of the peninsula/bay/islands already exists on the image. Oh, that's a good point, I forgot about that. This is so Rorschach, I wonder if Preiss ever got any angry letters, "why did you paint a picture of my Uncle naked on the skull?"

strike13 wrote:: And the nose/mouth of the lion is all this https://imgur.com/a/P4w1V I feel like it is a much better match for the highways above where you circled, but your point still stands.

MrSeabass wrote:: ...again, why would there be *two* maps of the same place on the image? The lion does not contain any sort of map whatsoever. damn where is the like button when you need it...

...again, why would there be *two* maps of the same place on the image? The lion does not contain any sort of map whatsoever.[/quote] well i think 2 maps because one encompasses more territory, more of the coast of that area of sc, where the nose and mouth are, and the other one, on whatever that figure is, is similar to a zoomed in version of actual charleston. i think there are many maps in every image, and they just keep getting more and more intricate and narrowed down to where exactly the casque is at.

strike13 wrote:: i think there are many maps in every image, and they just keep getting more and more intricate and narrowed down to where exactly the casque is at. Boy that would be nice, of course I haven't seen any evidence of that ever....

Agreed. I have lived here a long time and the map on the mask forehead is all I can see. I am not sure the tree branch can be called a map. It is just a road with a possible reference to our old bridges. Regards, Mac

MrSeabass wrote:: I've been to Charleston more times than I've been to the bathroom. I've been to so many parts of the city that I could claim it under adverse possession laws. Other than the potential pear branch/highway connection and the blatant Ft. Sumter pendant, there is NO map anywhere else on that image. Not a hint of one, not a subset of one, not a mirror/invert/fisheye/stretched version of one. Full stop. and, uh, this one

drunknerds wrote:: and, uh, this one well that and fort sumter...

maltedfalcon wrote:: well that and fort sumter... So like i said, totally, maps. I am definitely not claiming to know it all haha. Or how each image works. I'm Boston anyway. But starting to look more at the others as I go. Thanks for the input...i enjoy swapping the ideas. Def wasn't saying that my map ideas of Charleston were right either, just sharing what i saw. Now time for a good new england style IPA.

maltedfalcon wrote:: well that and fort sumter... Haha, I was about to make the exact same joke.

Mac, I have not read all the 1000 comments here, but I am wondering if anyone has been to the library there in Charleston to check articles about the switch of the capstan and the Moultrie statue. There should be some companies involved that might still have some records of the exchange. I have tried to look online, but you have to pay $40 to get an out of state library card.

Smokey Joe Would wrote:: Mac, I have not read all the 1000 comments here, but I am wondering if anyone has been to the library there in Charleston to check articles about the switch of the capstan and the Moultrie statue. There should be some companies involved that might still have some records of the exchange. I have tried to look online, but you have to pay $40 to get an out of state library card. May be useful, maybe they found something. Although burnside said he poked around there and it's packed clay no more than 2 feet down

10-4. I am also sure that area has been poked and prodded a lot, especially in the last few weeks. Plus that place is pretty open and Preiss would have to had been pretty ballsy to dig there. Just seems like a lot of evidence points there, if that is even the right verse. So fantastically frustrating!!

I dont recall any detailed info about how it was swapped. I would figure they filled the area with clay type substance and then laid the crushed oysters on top for the path. I dont have a library card but can still go to the library next time I get downtown. Regards, Mac

[quote="Macfos"]I dont recall any detailed info about how it was swapped. I would figure they filled the area with clay type substance and then laid the crushed oysters on top for the path. I dont have a library card but can still go to the library next time I get downtown. Regards, Thanks, i am sure that most of the folks on here have exausted a lot of trails. I was trying to go in from a different angle. If there are any untried ones left.

Smokey Joe Would wrote:: 10-4. I am also sure that area has been poked and prodded a lot, especially in the last few weeks. Plus that place is pretty open and Preiss would have to had been pretty ballsy to dig there. Just seems like a lot of evidence points there, if that is even the right verse. So fantastically frustrating!! I was once convinced it was WPG, now I'm not. There are so many weird things in the painting: Hex eyes, diagonal teeth, etc. There are a lot of statues in WPG, still there like they were in 1982. It's really weird to me that Preiss wouldn't have included at least one match of a park item to an image item. FInd those eyes or those teeth and that's a location I'll champion.

As much as I hate to acknowledge the I2/V6 WPG theory in any way, if you feel like exploring this one further you should definitely fire off a quick email to the City of Charleston's Parks and Recreation Department: https://www.charlestonparksconservancy. ... int-garden . They can almost certainly provide more information on the relocation of the USS Maine's capstan, or any of the other monuments in WPG. If you're in the area and looking for period photos of the area, or any other first-person accounts, be sure to check out the Charleston County Library's South Carolina Room https://www.ccpl.org/south-carolina-history at their main branch, 68 Calhoun Street. FWIW, I started my career working for the city of Charleston, and I've also spent my share of time around WPG (as well as the rest of the city). For the life of me, I still can't figure out why so many hunters think that Byron Preiss would have selected this park, given the book's immigration theme. WPG has a lot of impressive military memorials, but nothing at all related to the area's slave trade...

drunknerds wrote:: FInd those eyes or those teeth and that's a location I'll champion. This is Fort Moultrie's sallyport prior to 1975/76, when it was converted from a military base to a national monument. The slits are now just solid panes of glass, but I've been unable to confirm what they would have looked like in 1981/1982.

What drunknerds said beats me down everyday... the lack of EXACT visual references as shown in the Cleveland, Chicago finds and the new info on NOLA. We have to find some EXACT visual markers. Most of the image only seems to show "general" Charleston. Regards, Mac

With all due respect JamesV, as I have scoured your solve over and over I just dont see Preiss putting the casque at your location. The grass is too manicured and was in 82. Also, the missing tree leaves look nothing like the tree shown in your theory. But just my opinion and I respect your work. Regards, Mac

@Mac, no worries at all- IMHO, the real benefit to these forums is how the back-and-forth discussion helps spark new ideas. Feel free to bounce new ideas off me anytime. Everyone on Q4T would agree, a puzzle isn't solved until you've got a casque in hand.

I have also tried to match a statue with the fairie, but can not for the life of me. Sullivan's Island actually makes more sense as it was so connected with slavery. I have just struggled with the thought that he would bury it at a National Park site. If we could confirm which verse, it would certainly help. But, I guess that is why we haven't found it yet.

I have a new theory in development. Based on the LotJ, I think the first order of business is to understand The reference of "bright harvest of the midnight rock": cotton. It was the "cotton gin" that factored into the increased demand for slaves for cotton harvests. The same goes for tobacco. I think it's possible the "tree spirits" of Africa were mindful of this device that led to the Civil War. Strangely, ironically, the word "gin" is also a "spirit". This leads me to wonder if there's a prohibition era link to the puzzle. Perhaps that is why verse 6 begins with the age of rum running pirates.

erexere wrote:: I have a new theory in development. Based on the LotJ, I think the first order of business is to understand The reference of "bright harvest of the midnight rock": cotton. It was the "cotton gin" that factored into the increased demand for slaves for cotton harvests. The same goes for tobacco. I think it's possible the "tree spirits" of Africa were mindful of this device that led to the Civil War. Strangely, ironically, the word "gin" is also a "spirit". This leads me to wonder if there's a prohibition era link to the puzzle. Perhaps that is why verse 6 begins with the age of rum running pirates. This would have a lots of legs if prohibition was ratified or went into effect on the 8th of something.

gManTexas wrote:: This would have a lots of legs if prohibition was ratified or went into effect on the 8th of something. It has legs as is. We don't want to get too wrapped up in running with a single idea. I think it's more important to consider Preiss' strategies in linking each fair folk to a particular setting. There are several lines linked together for some reason, and not because they are talking about the same thing. Or May 1913: seems to me like a trick reference to whoever was the MAY-OR of Charleston in 1913. We're talking about John P. Grace (namesake of the Bridge). Edwin and Edwina, named after him: without knowing the tough to find Abroad in America reference, you think twin babies taking on an important person's name (succession), Edward being a good possibility. I like that the choice of Edwin/Edwina both have the letters WIN as in twin. I think there's something there trying to nudge us into an analogy to two dissimilar things sharing the same namesake. Freedom at the birth of a century: I've thought it links best to a Presidential medal of Freedom recipient on a year which is 100 years or 200 years from the birth of our Nation. Or on the 8th a scene / where law defended: seems like it refers to a criminal act. My favorite is the story that's been cited in several magazine/newspaper sources about a murder at a lighthouse that occurred on April 8th in 1873. I find it odd as hell that you can travel in the direction of the Grace Memorial bridge out of Charleston and 30 miles away you come to a pair of twin lighthouses, which look very different from one another, but built side by side, where a keeper with the name Andrew Johnson, murdered his wife; Johnson is the name of 1977 Medal of Freedom recipient Lady Bird Johnson (200 years after 1776 birth of our nation). It may be noteworthy that the verse for this image also mentions birds a couple times. Also it seems to be reinforced if you consider the name of the Vice President (close at hand in the white house) at the time of Sumter's events of the Civil War is also Andrew Johnson.

This would make a great Oliver Stone movie. Although I like some of this theory.

gManTexas wrote:: This would make a great Oliver Stone movie. Although I like some of this theory. I was thinking more of a Scorsese and his single long shots in Goodfellas. I've worked hard to find these facts, harder to understand their nature, even harder to conclude they were accessible to the general public in a pre internet era.

I think the world of you, erexere. No one else can do what you do, and I hope you lift a casque someday soon. On that note, I'm not 100% convinced that "cryptic reference to cotton = prohibition = " is going to be part of a solution.

Yeah, just wondering how the Fair Folk would view the whole slavery, crop industry, and civil war without taking to the bottle. The "cotton gin" as an insight may be weakish word play. I think it's one of the better choices for what.to do with the LotJ.

Hey everyone. I'm new here, but noticed this the other day while I was in sulivans island. If it helps anyone please keep me posted. I'm close by and I'm down for a dig if anyone feels like it. https://imgur.com/a/PsStJ

phinetic wrote:: Hey everyone. I'm new here, but noticed this the other day while I was in sulivans island. If it helps anyone please keep me posted. I'm close by and I'm down for a dig if anyone feels like it. https://imgur.com/a/PsStJ Man if that said Diamond Street instead of ruby. Well seen!

phinetic wrote:: Hey everyone. I'm new here, but noticed this the other day while I was in sulivans island. If it helps anyone please keep me posted. I'm close by and I'm down for a dig if anyone feels like it. https://imgur.com/a/PsStJ

Just wanted to comment that Ruby Dr is not on Sullivans Island. It is in Mt Pleasant, across the Ben Sawyer bridge from SI, in an area referred to as the "Old Village". While historic I don't think there are any links to either Image 2 or Verse 6 there. I know because I live about 6 blocks from the Ruby Dr shown in your image. Keep searching, and best wishes. Happy Hunting! Chris

Do you guys think the casque was dug up when they switched statues (for Moultaire)? Also if you are on battery street looking at Moultaire, would the treasure be buried on the left or the right? In the image the triangle of the fairy’s garments points down and to the right (or the ferry’s left), which would mean it would be on the right hand side of the statue facing the houses (White House close at hand). I honestly think this is the spot. Why not grab a metal detector to just see if in fact there is anything there (no digging) and proceed from there?

Personally I don't think it is, or was, buried in White Point Garden. I have been hunting for a couple months, and my current thinking is in downtown Charleston, but not WPG. I think I have narrowed it down to a couple likely spots, but looking for the ah-ha moment when I can narrow it down enough to consider probing or digging.

phinetic wrote:: Do you guys think the casque was dug up when they switched statues (for Moultaire)? Also if you are on battery street looking at Moultaire, would the treasure be buried on the left or the right? In the image the triangle of the fairy’s garments points down and to the right (or the ferry’s left), which would mean it would be on the right hand side of the statue facing the houses (White House close at hand). I honestly think this is the spot. Why not grab a metal detector to just see if in fact there is anything there (no digging) and proceed from there? graceandhayes wrote:: Personally I don't think it is, or was, buried in White Point Garden. I have been hunting for a couple months, and my current thinking is in downtown Charleston, but not WPG. I think I have narrowed it down to a couple likely spots, but looking for the ah-ha moment when I can narrow it down enough to consider probing or digging. Great questions. The current consensus is that they left the base of the capistan, so there wasn't much need to dig. Also, it's apparently only 2 feet down before you hit solid clay, so a lot of people have just rummaged through down to the bottom all around the statue. It freaks me out that WPG is small and has limited artwork, yet no one has found an image match beyond "blue circle with white circle inside it, that isn't really the same size as the cannon hole." That's what it takes to convince me: Anyone can interpret flowery prose into any solution they want. I've spent a long time google image searching every single park for some sort of hexagonal shape, or double archway, or pointy teeth, or anything, and it's just not findable from an armchair. At least not by me. I bet this one is going to be cracked open by someone putting boots on the ground, and noticing something really cool not visible from an online streetview.

I did some research on what was done to the soil when the Maine capstan was replaced by the Moultrie statue. I found this in a book titled "A Walk in the Parks" by John R. Young, who is an official tour guide registered with the City of Charleston. On page 27 of the book, in reference to the Moultrie statue, it says, "In April 2007, the battleship Maine's capstan was removed from the site. In May, the soil was strengthened to accommodate the new base and statue. A concrete pad was laid atop the newly compacted soil." From viewing pictures of both monuments, the base of the Maine capstan appears to have a similar footprint, maybe a little larger, as the Moultrie statue, but was significantly lower in height. The Maine base appears from photos to have been either poured concrete, or concrete covering brick or block, painted white. The base of the Moultie statue is made of 5 pieces of stacked granite. I do not believe the casque was buried on the west side of the Maine capstan, but if it was, I would agree it is likely gone or destroyed by the compaction of the soil and placement of the concrete pad, which is still visible below the Moultrie statue base.

graceandhayes wrote:: I did some research on what was done to the soil when the Maine capstan was replaced by the Moultrie statue. I found this in a book titled "A Walk in the Parks" by John R. Young, who is an official tour guide registered with the City of Charleston. On page 27 of the book, in reference to the Moultrie statue, it says, "In April 2007, the battleship Maine's capstan was removed from the site. In May, the soil was strengthened to accommodate the new base and statue. A concrete pad was laid atop the newly compacted soil." From viewing pictures of both monuments, the base of the Maine capstan appears to have a similar footprint, maybe a little larger, as the Moultrie statue, but was significantly lower in height. The Maine base appears from photos to have been either poured concrete, or concrete covering brick or block, painted white. The base of the Moultie statue is made of 5 pieces of stacked granite. I do not believe the casque was buried on the west side of the Maine capstan, but if it was, I would agree it is likely gone or destroyed by the compaction of the soil and placement of the concrete pad, which is still visible below the Moultrie statue base. This was amazing research! You're going to be a valuable resource here, I can tell. I think the cask was never there, because the clay is two feet down. That means the top of the cask would be ~15 inches under the ground. Maybe Preiss would have consider that a "safe" enough spot, but I don't know, dude seemed to like digging. Also, I kind of feel like someone who cared so much as to write about the monument switch in such detail would have also thought it important that a huge section of a box was found and some cask remnants. Although I guess a bulldozer might prevent that discovery.

Drunknerdz, there is. If you look at the lions nose, it replicates, almost exactly, the old statue that used to sit were Moultaire is now standing (USS Maine Capstan . On the North side of the old statue (facing the White House close at hand!) Had engraved: Presented by the Navy Department to the city of charleston through the courtesy of US Senator Benjamin R Tillman, May, 1913 If this isn’t the spot, I don’t know where is.

I think the May 1913 clue is too obvious. I don't think BP would have buried a casque right under a plaque containing the exact words in the verse. Just my opinion, seems too easy. Also, any digging by the public has been illegal in WPG for many years, and was illegal at the time BP would have buried the casque. I don't think BP would have buried the casque in WPG for this reason. He admitted to wearing costumes or uniforms when burying some of the casques, but I think this was drawn to avoid attention and questions, not because he was trying to hide illegal activity. The location of the Maine/Moultrie in WPG is very visible. It is in the middle of a main path through the park, and right next to a busy street with both car and pedestrian traffic. I can't prove any of this, unless I find the casque somewhere else, but I spent a few days in and around WPG, and I just don't think this is the spot. If it was there, I believe it would have been destroyed or discarded when the Maine capstan was removed. With regards to the lions nose. I have stared at it for a long time, and while it may be similar, I don't think it is close enough to be a clue to the capstan. Just looks like a lions nose to me.

So do you think the roads leading towards Sullivan Island, MNT pleasant, or Fort Moultaire is a clue it’s out that way somewhere?

Also don't buy into the cannons on either side being the arms extended, and the capstan being the bar that binds. Why give a direct reference to the exact spot early in the verse, then in the lines that seem to be pointing to the exact location use more cryptic hints. Just doesn't work for me. I think extended arms could be referring to actual arms, guns or cannons, or in Charleston there is a popular style of staircase outside many homes and building called "Welcoming Arms Stairs". Google it for an example. I think this may be the extended arms. Just my current thought. Either way, if you believe the casque was buried beneath the Maine capstan, then game over. It is most likely gone forever. Even if it was still there, the city will not issue a permit to dig in WPG unless for a registered archeological dig. That is why I continue to search other possible locations. Hoping to find another location that fits the verse, and has something that matches the image.

No, I think the roads, Pear(man) bridge, Ft Sumter, etc are either just clues to Charleston in general. Or could be show the path from SI to Charleston. The slaves were brought to SI first and quarantined in shacks on the beach before being brought to Charleston for sale.

Problem with Ft Moultrie is again you can't dig there. Ft Moultrie and Ft Sumter are federal property and any digging or metal detecting is strictly forbidden. You will be arrested if you even set foot on the property with digging tools or a metal detector. I talked to some of the rangers there. They said no way a private citizen would ever be given permission to dig there.

My thought process was that the Charelston map on the mask would narrow down the area but that all the other clues would bring you towards the casque, whether that be in Charelston or not. My thought process was the road going out from Charelston was a clue. It would seem redundant to me to use the charelston map in the mask to only have pear road going back towards Charelston. Seems to me since the road goes from left to right, and more importantly towards the diamond, we should follow it. Who knows though I'm usually wrong with these things lol. Just thinking out loud.

I followed the same logic, and tried using both verse 5 and verse 6. Ultimately all the clues I found pointed to Ft Moultrie as the only likely spot on SI. Again, per the rangers there, the NPS would never give permission for a private individual to dig on Ft Moultrie property. Not many other public spaces on SI other than the beach and a town park by the fire station. If it is on SI it would have to be at Ft Moultrie. So, your choices are: perform an illegal dig in the middle of the night, beg for permission you will never get, or if you are sure it is there, accept the fact it will likely never be recovered. For me all those are game over. For that reason, like WPG, I want to believe BP put the casque where it can be recovered without breaking any laws, and it must be somewhere else.

So, that leads me to the question, if you think it is on SI, which verse are you using, and how does it match to locations on SI? Other than an African fang mask being on display in the Ft Moultrie visitors center and there are lots of cannons at Ft Moultrie, what other clues in the verse, or the image, lead you to SI.

The skull mask is a huge link to SI. Even if is just another general location clue, the literary-loving Preiss had to have meant it to reference The Gold Bug

MrSeabass wrote:: As of now, just the road. And likewise burying something at a protected fort would be a very bad idea, even more so when sumter is in the image and moultrie is not. Someone else came up with the strings coming off the necklace and overlaying it onto a map to show the area between them as places to prospect. Edward's Park is something I'm researching as it fits things... somewhat. For now I'm focused more on the image than the verse, but still use verse 6 as a guideline. It's a very weak assessment, I admit... What are those extremely similar blue lines to the left of Sumter?

double post

Bear with me cause I found two clues which point to different directions. Found this regarding the statue at WPG from the sculptor, his own words. 1. [O]n October 20, 1932, the people of Charleston (eight thousand in attendance) dedicated a monument at White Point Gardens, the Battery, to the Confederate defenders of Fort Sumter...Many present had fathers, uncles, and grandfathers who had fought in what many still called "the Confederate War." The sculptor Herman A. MacNeil said of the monument: "Its motif in brief, is that the stalwart youth, standing in front with sword and shield symbolizes by his attitude the defense not only of the fort, but also of the fair city behind the fort in which are his most prized possessions, wife and family. And she, the wife, glorified into an Athena-like woman, unafraid, stands behind him with arms outstretched toward the fort , this creating an inseparable union of the city and Fort Sumter." I feel like this descrption fits the first part of verse 6: Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old and Where law defended Between two arms extended I'm not sure how much has changed, but it would be interesting to see if there were any places along the battery (maybe a median between roads, maybe what is now known to be a flower bed?) that would be an ideal spot. ************************************************************* Seabass, in your response, I am also curious about edwards park. I dont know if you saw my post earlier ( https://imgur.com/a/PsStJ ) but although its Ruby and not diamond, it's still kind of an interesting correlation, especially Edwin and Edwina (Edwards Park). I checked out the area once and the only super concerning thing is that there infact is a white house in Edwards park, although its a police station!! hahahaha.

MrSeabass wrote:: Yeah I noticed the roads a while back but kept them in the 'circumstantial' bin. I'll probably check out the park next time I'm there but not expecting anything new to be discovered. Also I am iffy about Sullivan's Island, and one of the few things that still attaches me somewhat is doing a full overlay with a map, which ends up with the jewel in one of SI's coves. Again, very circumstantial and i don't personally feel strongly about the link. I'll point out too that the base of the flower, or essentially, where it's growing from with retrospect to the map, is SC department of Natural Resources.

Is there anything to Sullivans Island Lighthouse? Considering the "pole" in the face has a distinct black tip both in the "shadow" and the pole itself. As you guys probably already know, Sullivans Island Lighthouse is literally black on top with the bottom half white.

Honestly, I live very close to Edwards Park. There are some historical sites in the park - the original post office (Patjens), the town hall was here, a house that was used for Revolutionary War soldiers, Ferry St is the street where the dock was to take the ferry between Mt P and CHS, etc. But, there is nothing there, other than a white house, some sand, and palm trees that links it to the verse. This is so obscure and has nothing to do with the slave trade. I find it even more unlikely than WPG that BP would bury the casque here. It is mostly just a dog park now. FYI, When hurricane Hugo hit in 1989 this park was about 5 feet underwater due to the storm surge. Don't think it was here. If it is anywhere in Mt Pleasant it would likely be what we call the Pitt St Bridge. This was the site of the first bridge to SI during the Revolutionary War. It was even a trolley car bridge in the early 20th century I think. It is now a causeway, pier, kayak launch, recreation area/park owned by the town of MT P. Let me know if anyone wants me to take pics or probe anywhere in the old village of Mt Pleasant. Don't think the clues point here, but I am happy to help any treasure hunters. I have also done some hunting around the SI lighthouse. There is nothing in that area that matches anything in the image or any connection to the verse. Access on Ft Johnson SCDNR site is also limited. Doubt it is there.

IDK part of me wants to think its actually at Fort Sumpter. It literally is where law defended. It's between two arms extended (Both Fort Moultaire and Johnson). Part of me wonders what implications and how different and scary "land laws" where when he burried the casques, because now I don't know a single public place you could just dig without needing some permit or permission. Maybe he burried it outside of Fort Sumpter and technically at the time it was "whatever as long as its not in fort Sumpter", whereas now basically a SWAT team would fall from the sky if they saw you digging there now. It's just so much more difficult this day in age. Same with anywhere near Fort Moultaire. Maybe if it was outside of the Fort nobody cared but now everything around it is off limits given security and what not. I wonder if Byron ever took that into consideration or if he ever followed laws to see if any of his casques could have transitioned into a closed off or illegal area. I suppose after writing the book, putting all the effort in the paintings, the maps, the poems, the pottery and keys and jewels, theres no way you would alert the readers that casque X or Y is no longer reachable. You would just probably say to yourself "welp, nobody will ever find that one" and not tell anyone. Legacy lives forever cause nobody can legally dig it up. Treasure always remains. Sorry, just a ramble.

Right, but like I said, who knows what the laws would have been around Fort Sumter, or any other Fort at the time. Now, present day, no way would you be able to even dig in a 30 foot radius. I think literally all the clues point to it. The ferry (literal boat), fort sumpter literally being on image and between the two arms from WPG. IDK where else this thing could be. I think he had said he assumed most all the casques would be picked up within the first year. I think we're looking too abstractly. The answer is there.

phinetic wrote:: who knows what the laws would have been around Fort Sumter, or any other Fort at the time. OOoo! OOoo! Call on me! I know this...! Since 1969... In a national Park. It is a federal offense (1) Possessing, destroying, injuring, defacing, removing, digging, or disturbing from its natural state: (iii) Nonfossilized and fossilized paleontological specimens, cultural or archeological resources, or the parts thereof. (iv) A mineral resource or cave formation or the parts thereof. (3) Tossing, throwing or rolling rocks or other items inside caves or caverns, into valleys, canyons, or caverns, down hillsides or mountainsides, or into thermal features. (5) Walking on, climbing, entering, ascending, descending, or traversing an archeological or cultural resource, monument, or statue, except in designated areas and under conditions established by the superintendent. (6) Possessing, destroying, injuring, defacing, removing, digging, or disturbing a structure or its furnishing or fixtures, or other cultural or archeological resources. (7) Possessing or using a mineral or metal detector, magnetometer, side scan sonar, other metal detecting device, or subbottom profiler.

& (a) Unauthorized excavation, removal, damage, alteration, or defacement of archaeological resources. No person may excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface, or attempt to excavate, remove, damage, or otherwise alter or deface any archaeological resource located on public lands or Indian lands unless such activity is pursuant to a permit issued under section 470cc of this title, a permit referred to in section 470cc(h)(2) of this title, or the exemption contained in section 470cc(g)(1) of this title Also if you dug and found it, not only would they prosecute you they would take the casque and key away and anything you acquired as part of possessing the illegal gained object. (meaning the jewel) So 6 months in jail and or a $5000 fine....

I have been working on this for a while and had to do a ton of research. One of the issues with Charleston is that while it has a long history, there is very little displayed with respect to the African narrative and regarding slavery. I believe this puzzle relies heavily on historical events and information, along with the sparse visual clues on the ground. In fairness, I shared this with a couple of people prior to posting, just to get some feedback and see if someone wanted to probe. In reading this thread today, I sense the same feeling that many of the possible locations are either off limits or just don't seem to line up with the Image and Verse. Having looked at possible solves, nothing seemed complete. I'll take the story from The Gold Bug as the allegory to this hunt. In The Gold Bug, the narrator is faced with two choices (and a cipher) but initially chooses the wrong one. I think the hunt in White Point Gardens is the initial wrong choice. The second choice, which in the book uncovers the treasure, in my opinion is Hampton Park. I put the details of the solve on dropbox. https://www.dropbox.com/s/h2ogmry8k4xym ... n.pdf?dl=0 If you like it, go probe there. If you don't, feel free to pick it apart. While I have been to Charleston years ago, I did not base any of this on being on the ground. Your results may vary. Happy hunting!

MrSeabass wrote:: Right off the bat, the pond in Hampton Park was completely rebuilt into a different design in 1984. And pretty much everything from the forehead interpretations on down is highly interpretive. Sorry, but as much as I wanted to link Hampton Park to the solve (especially with the seemingly common Expo theme with most of these cities), this doesn't do it for me. I'm not focused on the pond at all. I'm looking at the eastern side of the park. Speculative interpretations, yes, to a degree. Like I said, there is a dearth of physical objects in any of the parks in Charleston that we can point at and say, "there's our columns!" One thing I forgot to mention is if we enjoy the concept of map overlays, the gemstone is a virtual replica of the park shape. Mull it over. I'm seriously not asking to be right. If it works, hey great! If not, it's intellectual fodder.

MrSeabass wrote:: I'm referring to the 'glasses' match you made. You looked at the park/pond first, then looked for things in the image that fit what you wanted to see. Turns out that's not how the pond looked when the painting was made, so the connection is invalid. And the forehead stain definitely isn't a horsehead. Gemstone looks nothing like the shape of the park; vague rectangle shape != vague rectangle shape. Misses like these turn the solve into a house of cards after that. Okay, throw the glasses out. Forget they exist. Go into your favorite image editing program. Overlay the gem on the park. It's a really, really good match. The irony is that people want image matches, yet when presented with them, they say, nope, not good enough. Has anyone matched anything in Charleston besides Fort Sumter? Second, While I value your feedback, I am not going to defend the proposed solve to the very last stitch. If you see some value, great. If you see absolutely no value, okay. However, if you are going to throw out everything because of slight interpretation issues, why the hell are we even on here? Really. I am trying to move this forward in the hopes that someone, yourself included, might gain something. Maybe it's there in Hampton Park. Maybe it's 20 feet to the right of where I picked. I'm not 100% sure, but I can tell you this, if given a choice of parks, this is the one I would pick.

I too am baffled by the lack of exact markings of imagery in Charleston based on the solves for Chicago and Cleveland. We have to be missing something visually accurate or this solve has more to do with verse than imagery. I continue to scour the parks, looking for imagery matches. Thanjs fir posting gMan. Gotta run every possibility down. I do agree with Seabass on the protection of sites in Charleston. Always been well protected. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: I too am baffled by the lack of exact markings of imagery in Charleston based on the solves for Chicago and Cleveland. We have to be missing something visually accurate or this solve has more to do with verse than imagery. I continue to scour the parks, looking for imagery matches. Thanjs fir posting gMan. Gotta run every possibility down. I do agree with Seabass on the protection of sites in Charleston. Always been well protected. Regards, Mac Hey Mac, that's what I'm referring to when I pick Hampton Park. Most of the other candidate sites are either Federal or Historical Preservation protected. From what I understand, Hampton Park is public and you could, possibly with permission, dig there.

gMan... I agree with your process. Right or wrong. Hampton Park is a city park and there is a no dig/metal detect sign 10 feet from your dig spot. Either way, working through theories as you do is the way to solve. I am open to everything. The hunt continues... Regards, Mac

BTW - I have other theories (plural), but will not rule out Hampton Park. A lot of connection, but I am stuck on the lack of visual markers with most theories. My tunnel vision though... Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: BTW - I have other theories (plural), but will not rule out Hampton Park. A lot of connection, but I am stuck on the lack of visual markers with most theories. My tunnel vision though... Regards, Mac Everything is fair game. I just have my one option. I do think it needs to be a non-Federal site though.

The zoo is a great idea in the park. I’ve always thought that her wings resembled peacocks. Peacocks might have been there?

gMan.. totally agree. Regards, Mac

phinetic wrote:: The zoo is a great idea in the park. I’ve always thought that her wings resembled peacocks. Peacocks might have been there? I didn't come across a specific inventory of animals. Info on the zoo is hard to come by. Here is one article: https://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/cha ... id=4569740 It interesting that Kevin Eberle, the author of a history of the park, says everyone remembers the zoo. That shows the importance of the zoo and possibly a bunch of the imagery we are seeing. Yes, there's an arc to Africa, but the lion, as sad as he may have been, was important. I wonder if someone digging in the city records can find photos of the lion. Maybe the markings match up. Within the two aviaries, peacocks may have lived there. The zoo was kinda organic, people just dropped off animals there. The zoo is one of the connections I made to Hampton Park. I don't think we'd see any of those animals in any other area of Charleston, except the preserve, which came later I believe. I think some of the animals from Hampton Park were moved to the wildlife park in the 1970s.

Yes, the lack of visuals is driving me crazy, and I like to think it's driving the other severely-literal puzzle solvers daffy, too. Gman, the wings matchup is intriguing. I forget, did you research that the paths were like that in 1980?

drunknerds wrote:: Yes, the lack of visuals is driving me crazy, and I like to think it's driving the other severely-literal puzzle solvers daffy, too. Gman, the wings matchup is intriguing. I forget, did you research that the paths were like that in 1980? I tried. They seem to be laid out that way, but I'm hoping someone can find photos.

gManTexas wrote:: Within the two aviaries, peacocks may have lived there. The zoo was kinda organic, people just dropped off animals there. Wow.... like maybe how the slaves were dropped off @ SI ?!!

MaltedFalcon's comments made me sit down and re-think my work for a while, but I still feel like the I2/V5 clues lead me to Fort Moultrie / 12 "paces" from the USS Patapsco obelisk. It's a great point though: As NPS also pointed out to me last summer, BP would definitely have been breaking the law if he buried a casque on the grounds here in 1981-2. Any prizes, awards, etc. would then be forfeited to the NPS, etc. etc. etc. Unfortunately, now I'm left with more questions than answers: -Was the Charleston casque even buried at all? Could it have been left in the custody of the park Superintendent, or some similar arrangement? V5 was the only Verse which mentions getting permission before digging--- even in the rules at the end of the book, there's not a whole lot of concern shown for property rights. Also, the way that "Get permission / To dig out" is written struck me as more of an order, rather than a suggestion or advice. Follow the rules, and eventually you'd collect the prize. Conduct an illegal dig, and you'd earn a completely different prize. I floated this idea to Erexere via PM last year, but today I got off my butt and started looking into interviewing both park Superintendents from 1981-1982. Both of the Superintendents from this time appear to still be living, and it looks like they may still be local to Charleston, so I'll keep the group posted if that thought leads anywhere. -If BP actually did bury the casque illegally, he had to have known that his readers would have difficulty with dig permissions. Was this the reason for accepting mail-in solutions for inaccessible casques? Remember in Chicago, he basically told the searchers that their location was correct, then he still sent them back out anyway to conduct a dig... Last, just wanted an excuse to share this cool aerial shot of Fort Moultrie from August 1979. Other than the changes in trees and shrubs, it looks like this area is basically unchanged. So, if the casque actually was buried outside the sallyport like I suspect, it's probably still there? Keep searching!

JamesV wrote:: -Was the Charleston casque even buried at all? Could it have been left in the custody of the park Superintendent, or some similar arrangement? V5 was the only Verse which mentions getting permission before digging--- even in the rules at the end of the book, there's not a whole lot of concern shown for property rights. Also, the way that "Get permission / To dig out" is written struck me as more of an order, rather than a suggestion or advice. Follow the rules, and eventually you'd collect the prize. Conduct an illegal dig, and you'd earn a completely different prize. I floated this idea to Erexere via PM last year, but today I got off my butt and started looking into interviewing both park Superintendents from 1981-1982. Both of the Superintendents from this time appear to still be living, and it looks like they may still be local to Charleston, so I'll keep the group posted if that thought leads anywhere. -If BP actually did bury the casque illegally, he had to have known that his readers would have difficulty with dig permissions. Was this the reason for accepting mail-in solutions for inaccessible casques? I like to think I'm a big skeptic, but this kinda blew my mind. Even if it isn't true, thanks for the mental food, JamesV!

Wow so you wonder if maybe charleston fits that interpretation pretty well. You just wonder if "get permission to dig out" would be lost through employees? How would you know you could trust someone for years and years?

phinetic wrote:: Wow so you wonder if maybe charleston fits that interpretation pretty well. You just wonder if "get permission to dig out" would be lost through employees? How would you know you could trust someone for years and years? Good question! Preiss has said he thought every cask would be dug up in 6 months Maybe salesmanship. But on face value, it checks out

JamesV, I completely agree with your solution on this one. The only edit I would make would be WhiteRabbit’s interpretation of the “wingless bird” as a reference to the Edgar Allen Poe story (doesn’t change the location though). One question I had was regarding the tree that was out front in the 80s. Do we know what type it was? Would have been really amazing if it was a pear tree. Also, consider the ‘white stone’ marker could also be the Osceola tablet. Great solution. I enjoyed reading it.

Wanted to comment on one thing that caught my eye in the 1979 photo. The triangular sidewalk in front of the parking spaces near the visitors center is the closest match I have seen to the jagged teeth on the Ft Sumter mask. The mask has 6 points and the sidewalk only has four, but closest match I have seen yet. The sidewalk is straight today.

Also notice a battery that is not there today. At the top center of the photo there is a battery close to the beach with three square openings in the back. This battery has been removed and does not exist today. I wonder what it looks like from the beach side.

Holy @#$% Guys. No way I can keep this to myself. First, thanks to JamesV for forcing me to search more of these aerial pictures. https://imgur.com/a/JBnnX Closer .... https://imgur.com/a/1syxI Look at this. The triangles on the sides of the battery, the STEPS on the sides. This is the fucking triangles with teeth within the "fort" shape!!!! Look above at JamesVs pic for another perspective. This battery is long gone. But who knows whats still out there. Anyone got any more pictures? It has to be there!!! Would have been perfect for him to burry it out there!!! Behind the battery wall, nobody would see him, totally out of view! Near the water. Listening to the birds (or perhaps cannons, or maybe he did infact mean actual birds since its under a tree?!) Also, someone correct me if I'm wrong, but that path.... if you zoom out.... 1. the path that is front of Fort Moultaire, points in a 4 o clock position. (doesn't it even look like the its in the shape of the skirt?) 2. the girls skirt points to a 4 o clock position 3. the staff or pole in the middle of the fort is in the 4 o clock position If I could put my money on it its that tree to the left of the battery, looking out towards the 4 o clock position. If you look super close in the bigger picture there is friggin SAND PATH that leads out to the beach. If that palm had a four o clock shadow that covered that sand path..... #@$@#%%@#%!!!! Someone please tell me I'm wrong and that I'm crazy now.

Zoom in on JamesV picture of the battery. Triangles on both sides. It looks as if it’s distant from Fort Moultaire so perhaps it’s not on federal land and it’s closer to the coast. There are only a handful of palm trees in the area. This would also sort of go along with the sunglasses on the right hand side of the painting, towards a beach.

phinetic wrote:: Zoom in on JamesV picture of the battery. Triangles on both sides. It looks as if it’s distant from Fort Moultaire so perhaps it’s not on federal land and it’s closer to the coast. There are only a handful of palm trees in the area. This would also sort of go along with the sunglasses on the right hand side of the painting, towards a beach. phinetic, there's no reason to believe that some of these objects could be design elements that were incorporated into Image 2, but you have to be able to walk through the whole image and verse, or at least mostly to determine the casque location. Also, in looking at all of the puzzles and locations (including proposed) none of them fall on Federal lands. They all appear to be public land, which makes a ton of sense since BP expected people to be searching for these casques. Also, even though after the fact BP had some bravado about burying these things, I highly doubt he would have risked getting arrested, especially on a federal charge.

Found alternative pictures: https://imgur.com/a/sbtnX Apologize that i had to upload on my phone. If you look from the back it looks like the image of the teeth (white/dark) . I think Moultaire is in similar shape to Fort Sumpter. I think the verse tells us between two arms extended (cannons) below the bar (perhaps a sand bar) under the palm (literal tree) in the sand (on the coastal area) is where it could be located. The cannons in the ferry’s wings could make sense. This is not at Fort Moultaire, but maybe perhaps on the coast of Moultaire.

MrSeabass wrote:: 'Hey Mr. minimum-wage park attendant, can you put this box that has a diamond(?) in it that might be undiscovered for many years somewhere in your office? I completely trust you to maintain this and tell others to keep it in case this treasure hunt goes on for decades. Also make sure you never movie it to somewhere else even though I will never be back to check on it. Oh also you aren't getting paid or anything for holding on to my stuff.'' I really don't need to explain what the issue is here, right? BP made it very clear that all casques were buried. I was joking with another member that if you go to the Brooklyn library and talk to the rare collections people and utter the code phrase, "The eagle headed gull flies by the Russian lady of liberty at 11:00." They will hand you a map and gold plated shovel.

graceandhayes wrote:: Wanted to comment on one thing that caught my eye in the 1979 photo. The triangular sidewalk in front of the parking spaces near the visitors center is the closest match I have seen to the jagged teeth on the Ft Sumter mask. The mask has 6 points and the sidewalk only has four, but closest match I have seen yet. The sidewalk is straight today. Add in the windows at the church across the street and you have the top and the bottom of the jagged teeth.

Would it be helpful to start a thread called "Brute Force Attack: Image2" and list all of the parks in Charleston and then bust each one as a team, eliminating 1 by 1? I am on the ground in Charleston and can provide pictures and on ground assessments as we work through locations. Searching for buried fairy treasure is fun... lol even my wife likes it because she gets to pick the place to eat everytime I drag her on a fairy mission. Regards, Mac

So is it a good idea overall? I do want honest opinions. Maybe just do something like that under this thread? Thoughts? Regards, Mac

I see your reservation and you are probably right. Any thought of picking a single park and trying to confirm visuals? Just trying to think of a team approach where we could layout everything about a specif location and get a bunch of input instead of jumping all over the map with different thoughts and theories. Thanks for the feedback MrSeabass. Regards, Mac

MrSeabass wrote:: Ehhhhhh not really. Way too much area to cover, and it will inevitably lead to a massive amount of bad reverse confirmations, i.e. pick a park and then find any vague link back to the image or verse. We'll end up with 17 different parks that turn into a pissing contest. Seems that's where it sits now.

Macfos wrote:: I see your reservation and you are probably right. Any thought of picking a single park and trying to confirm visuals? Just trying to think of a team approach where we could layout everything about a specif location and get a bunch of input instead of jumping all over the map with different thoughts and theories. Thanks for the feedback MrSeabass. Regards, Mac Sounds productive. Get all the eyes on one location and exhaust the possibilities.

gMan... that is exactly what I was thinking. Process of elimination via brute force attack 1 park at a time. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: gMan... that is exactly what I was thinking. Process of elimination via brute force attack 1 park at a time. Regards, Mac Pick a park to nominate. "Park of the Month" club. Then we attack.

"Then we attack." LOVE IT... Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: "Then we attack." LOVE IT... Regards, Mac As long as none of those gun batteries are still operational. You got any other boots on the ground? I say go in with multiple people and create a diversion while someone probes. Like bring one of these

Yeah, just name a spot and I'll get at it (from my armchair)

davinci4 wrote:: One question I had was regarding the tree that was out front in the 80s. Do we know what type it was? Would have been really amazing if it was a pear tree. I enjoyed reading it. @DaVinci4- to be fully honest, I'd never even considered that it *might* have been a pear tree. I've got tons of photos of it, though. Best I can tell, it stood there until the late 80s or so, and it probably came down when Hurricane Hugo hit in 1989. I suspect it may have been some variety of cypress, but it definitely had leaves instead of needles. So, not an exact match with the branch in Image 2. There was also two taller trees located in the corner of the NW bastion. These were both definitely cypress, but judging by the old photos I looked at they were removed sometime in the mid-1970s. So unless BP visited Fort Moultrie several years before he claimed to, those two trees don't seem to factor in.

MrSeabass wrote:: 'Hey Mr. minimum-wage park attendant, can you put this box that has a diamond(?) in it that might be undiscovered for many years somewhere in your office? I completely trust you to maintain this and tell others to keep it in case this treasure hunt goes on for decades. Also make sure you never movie it to somewhere else even though I will never be back to check on it. Oh also you aren't getting paid or anything for holding on to my stuff.'' So you're saying there's a chance? Seriously, I appreciate the reality check. I doubt we'll ever find out the full story, but it's also possible that BP buried the casque here as in every other city, then had an "Oh Shoot" moment after meeting with his legal team and decided to tack on that line about getting permission. Who knows... Important to note, though, that Sumter is basically just the old fort itself, while the administrative HQ for Fort Sumter National Monument is actually located out at Fort Moultrie. I did have a chance to take the Sumter tour when I was home last year, and could not find any Image/Verse matches out on the island proper. Also, the retired park Superintendents both have pretty impressive bios-- more like history professors, rather than summer interns. It might be possible for them to have played along somehow, although I really doubt they'd have given BP explicit permission to bury a casque here.

I think its really important to figure out what the teeth represent, the flag(?), star, and what the eyes represent. For whatever reason I've been really trying to figure the eyes out, both on the mask, the flat head screwdriver eyes on the fort sumter, and also the lion. I've always wondered why the bright lines under the eyes on the lion.

phinetic wrote:: I think its really important to figure out what the teeth represent, the flag(?), star, and what the eyes represent. For whatever reason I've been really trying to figure the eyes out, both on the mask, the flat head screwdriver eyes on the fort sumter, and also the lion. I've always wondered why the bright lines under the eyes on the lion. I did a ton of searching but could not find a match in the collections of the Charleston Museums, but that's not to say it doesn't exist. Or that Preiss and JJP maybe used a different source. Have a look at this mask from Congo. One of the countries where many of the slaves were taken. https://www.rrtraders.com/Masks/chokwesd.htm It could also be an interpretation of a Chilkat traditional blanket. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chilkat_weaving During the 1901 Inter-States and West Indies Exposition, there was an "Eskimo" village included. Some of the peoples may have been from this region. Ironically in 2007 a blanket of this type turned up in Charleston on Antiques Roadshow. The guy that had it appraised said it had been in his family for a while. It is entirely possible that it was from the Expo of 1901. hxxp://www.pbs.org/wgbh/roadshow/season ... 201506A14/ Alternately, it could be design elements from in and around Charleston. Sometimes it is difficult to pinpoint the inspirations for these Images. The important thing is to walk through the entire Verse and Image and make as many possible connections that you can.

I will be photographing multiple items at a park this weekend and will upload for interpretation. Every detail documented for 1 park for disection by the group. You guys have great intelltec into these puzzles. My mind does not work that way so all I can do is provide on the ground info and an occassional "ah ha" moment... if that ... lol. Regards, Mac

WPG. It has to be. 1. The argument for WPG is that there is a daisy (think flower, garden) and there is also white on the tip of the nose on sumter (or AKA a White Point). Bringing it together, White Point Gardens. The flower can also be similar to the shape of a palm tree, which is in the verse. 2. We come to the USS Maine capstan (which has May 1913 on it , from the verse). 3. The lion has a massive mane (or should I say Maine) in the photo. The lions mane is so exaggerated in this photo you instantly notice it. 4. I almost see the ferry as a ships decorative african figurehead which further illustrates ships (also notice the trail of blue, or water, underneath her in the painting). https://imgur.com/a/oSNOT (Even look at her wrists!) 5. Someone has even posted about the lions birthmark looking like the the Havana Port in Cuba, which is where the USS Maine originally sank. https://imgur.com/a/bPhY0 I think we can either argue this is just coincidence, or that there is some merrit. Between two arms extended ------> Cannon Below the bar that binds -----------> Bar (n) 1) A shoal usually composed of sand or sediment transported by currents causing an obstruction to navigation, usually a shoal lying just offshore the entrance to a harbour Beside the long palm's shadow ----------> There are two palm trees next to what was the USS Capstan Embedded in the sand ----------> Embedded in the path Waits the Fair remuneration -----------> treasure White house close at hand. -------------> This could mean either be ON the side of the white house of S battery road or just simply mean its near by.

I guess it just depends if you’re following the branch outwards or are you following it inwards. What did Byron want us to do? I also think that all the other clues narrow it down. The map in the image is a clue, but doesn’t at all narrow it down to a specific locations. I think the map says Charleston, and the clues say WPG. I guess as far as the birthmark goes, I definitely see a similarity. It might not be perfect, but it’s rather convincing if your already leaning on the USS Maine, it’s an excellent added clue.

Unknown: phinetic said: I guess as far as the birthmark goes, I definitely see a similarity. It might not be perfect, but it’s rather convincing if your already leaning on the USS Maine, it’s an excellent added clue. That would be called shoehorning... Regards, Mac

phinetic wrote:: I guess it just depends if you’re following the branch outwards or are you following it inwards. What did Byron want us to do? I also think that all the other clues narrow it down. The map in the image is a clue, but doesn’t at all narrow it down to a specific locations. I think the map says Charleston, and the clues say WPG. I guess as far as the birthmark goes, I definitely see a similarity. It might not be perfect, but it’s rather convincing if your already leaning on the USS Maine, it’s an excellent added clue. Check back a few pages, I posted a side by side comparison of the two Edit: bottom of page 58

Macfos wrote:: I will be photographing multiple items at a park this weekend and will upload for interpretation. Every detail documented for 1 park for disection by the group. You guys have great intelltec into these puzzles. My mind does not work that way so all I can do is provide on the ground info and an occassional "ah ha" moment... if that ... lol. Regards, Mac Tell us which park, dude, so we can research!

I think with comparing maps that Byron would have had vs what we are using, literal satalite images, may play into affect? I'm not sure. I think strictly speaking, the birthmark on the lion - it must be significant in some way. I think we cna agree on that. The only thing I can think of is that either its an exact outline of something, or its an ambiguous and crudly representation of something else. I would think its the former. It must be an outline of something, and with hwo it looks, it must be geographical. And if that is the case it boggles my mind that nobody has been able to fit to yet if Havannah is vetoed.

I don't know. I was waiting for input from the group on which park everyone wanted to start with. Let me know before Saturday morning. Going to rain Sunday so we are going early Saturday. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: I don't know. I was waiting for input from the group on which park everyone wanted to start with. Let me know before Saturday morning. Going to rain Sunday so we are going early Saturday. Regards, Mac Since you are there, pick one and the rest of us can research from afar.

phinetic wrote:: I think with comparing maps that Byron would have had vs what we are using, literal satalite images, may play into affect? I'm not sure. I think strictly speaking, the birthmark on the lion - it must be significant in some way. I think we cna agree on that. The only thing I can think of is that either its an exact outline of something, or its an ambiguous and crudly representation of something else. I would think its the former. It must be an outline of something, and with hwo it looks, it must be geographical. And if that is the case it boggles my mind that nobody has been able to fit to yet if Havannah is vetoed. I agree completely. He didn't have Google earth to look at stuff. We have to be a little abstract, the maps he had for reference might have been 50 years old in 1980. Also we have to get on the ground in these places. We can't just google a place and use street view. So much has changed in 30 some odd years that the A-ha moment might be gone. Every passing day makes it harder to find. WPG has so many clues that point to it, are those just red herrings, maybe. But why would he do that? Just to make it harder? These are supposed to be hard but not impossible, he expected them to be found within 6 months to a year. I think sometimes we over think them.

Smokey Joe Would wrote:: I agree completely. He didn't have Google earth to look at stuff. We have to be a little abstract, the maps he had for reference might have been 50 years old in 1980. Also we have to get on the ground in these places. We can't just google a place and use street view. So much has changed in 30 some odd years that the A-ha moment might be gone. Every passing day makes it harder to find. WPG has so many clues that point to it, are those just red herrings, maybe. But why would he do that? Just to make it harder? These are supposed to be hard but not impossible, he expected them to be found within 6 months to a year. I think sometimes we over think them. If it was me, I would make the diamond more difficult to find.

I feel like burying it in a place that's illegal to dig would make it harder than any red herring ever could

drunknerds wrote:: I feel like burying it in a place that's illegal to dig would make it harder than any red herring ever could by that logic he could have just tossed it in the water...

I am going to start up the Peninsula and go to Wragg & Marion Square this weekend. Will take lots of photos of the parks and surroundings and some notes as well. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: I am going to start up the Peninsula and go to Wragg & Marion Square this weekend. Will take lots of photos of the parks and surroundings and some notes as well. Regards, Mac Mac, I did a quick visual scan of the squares. Wragg appears to be very small and somewhat featureless. Marion is much more interesting. Former home of the Citadel if I am correct and the HUGE statue of Calhoun. I'm trying to see features around the park, but not having much luck. Maybe you can get some photos of interesting building near there. I believe everyone wants to see jagged teeth and stuff like that to match the masks in Image 2.

Get the hornwork in M sq , if you can please. Maybe that forehead blotch is on the stone or something

Minotaur_moreno wrote:: IMHO, anyone that thinks it was in the children's zoo, is just completely wrong. Why does that make me the bad guy? Are you in the correct thread?

ThEre's a huge stone there that used to be part of a defensive wall that held off the British. The rock extends well underground... Weight and roots extended Together saved the site Of granite walls Wind swept halls Citadel in the night

Marion Square and the surrounding it is. Going tomorrow morning. Will photo all statues/monuments/iron work, etc in the park and the surrounding buildings. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: Marion Square and the surrounding it is. Going tomorrow morning. Will photo all statues/monuments/iron work, etc in the park and the surrounding buildings. Regards, Mac Thanks. Just to save you some time: Looks like the Marion square main plaque, the plaque by the statue, and the sign explaining the defeat by the British are all clearly posted on GIS>

I still think it’s confusing that there are people still using two different verses to solve this.

phinetic wrote:: I still think it’s confusing that there are people still using two different verses to solve this. I constantly go back and try all the verses on different images to see if there is something I have missed.

phinetic wrote:: I still think it’s confusing that there are people still using two different verses to solve this. The thing that baffles me is people trying to promote a theory by using a verse, without citing parts that are verbatim on plaques or statues, or using exact matches from a related image. It's short prose, anything can tunnel to anything.

drunknerds wrote:: The thing that baffles me is people trying to promote a theory by using a verse, without citing parts that are verbatim on plaques or statues, or using exact matches from a related image. It's short prose, anything can tunnel to anything. While there are definitly image matches from the casque location, were there verse matches in Cleveland or Chicago that matched plaques or statues?

Ok guys I did some digging to try and atleast solidify Image 2 with Verse 6. I specifically did some digging regarding "Edward and Edwina named after him" This exact line is in the book "Abroad in America" and links a man by the name of Edward Blyden. Doing some research I found quite a few essays and papers written about Blyden and found some good stuff. One is that he was an educator, politician in Liberia (fitting the African theme). Most of you all know this I think. However I found a really interesting fact reading a dissertation (yes, I read part a dissertation for this) and found this very, very interesting!! "Sierra Leone, unlike Nigeria or Ghana, began mining mineral resources only in 1929. It was at the time an important producer of diamonds and iron. It is important to note that it was after the death of Edward Wilmot Blyden in 1912, that mineral mining began in both Liberia and Sierra Leone. The reason for this development was that the colonial powers blockaded the development efforts of the Creoles. They accused the Creoles (African Americans) of being responsible for poisoning the minds of the natives against the colonial powers." "Moreover, the freed black's anticipation that they were going to become rich upon their emigration to Africa proved false as some of them lived in poverty. Others who established their own companies obtained reasonable economic gains, but when they were confronted by the Colonial powers' blockade they began to experience serious economic challenges. Creoles no longer had privileged position in village commerce; they were gradually moved to Freetown and its suburbs from the villages where they were first settled on arrival from the United States via Nova Scotia and London." Liberia seems super important, and, yes: The national animal of Liberia is the Lion I have proclaimed to have found pretty "big" things in previous posts, but guys, this cannot be a coincidence. Edward, liberia, the lion, and the diamond.

phinetic wrote:: Ok guys I did some digging to try and atleast solidify Image 2 with Verse 6. I specifically did some digging regarding "Edward and Edwina named after him" This exact line is in the book "Abroad in America" and links a man by the name of Edward Blyden. Doing some research I found quite a few essays and papers written about Blyden and found some good stuff. One is that he was an educator, politician in Liberia (fitting the African theme). Most of you all know this I think. However I found a really interesting fact reading a dissertation (yes, I read part a dissertation for this) and found this very, very interesting!! "Sierra Leone, unlike Nigeria or Ghana, began mining mineral resources only in 1929. It was at the time an important producer of diamonds and iron. It is important to note that it was after the death of Edward Wilmot Blyden in 1912, that mineral mining began in both Liberia and Sierra Leone. The reason for this development was that the colonial powers blockaded the development efforts of the Creoles. They accused the Creoles (African Americans) of being responsible for poisoning the minds of the natives against the colonial powers." I have proclaimed to have found pretty "big" things in previous posts, but guys, this cannot be a coincidence. I think this concludes that Image 2 goes with Verse 6. After his death mining became prevelant for specifically diamonds in Africa. Let me know what you guys think!! Great work! I am a huge advocate for historical research into these puzzles.

Some solid research on Blyden, and though I support looking deeper, because Preiss would've had his reasons, I think it's not completely necessary to know the background of the obscure quotes. I think what needs to be addressed is the unisex name situation. Edwin and Edwina can both be referred to as Ed or Eddy/Eddie. I just realized that the word "eddy" is also used to describe a circular current like a whirlpool or vortex.

I forgot to mention something else I noticed. I made a post about things I noticed in the previous solved casques and noticed in each of them the state was outlined and think that if you rotate the picture (which each picture had you do to identify marking / landmarks) you can see the outline of south carolina in the photo. https://imgur.com/a/OXwIC It might not be perfect, but niether was the illinois state outline. If anyhting it might atleast allow us to not pay attention to the branches in that particular area?

Hey yall I think my focus here on out is Hampton Park. 1) "During the mid-20th century, the park included a zoo. It was opened in 1932, and an aviary was added about six years later.[12] Most of the animals, including a lion , were donated to the zoo or bred at the zoo". I think whats important here is that they had a single lion, and they also had an aviary. For what its worth, I think that in the top two images within the ferrys wings are two birds, maybe even peacocks. 2) The USS Maine was previous at Hampton Park which has been a focus of a lot of peoples searches. 3) https://imgur.com/a/pvpdM This image illistrates the face in both the painting and the overhead view of Hampton Park. 4) Hampton Park itself has a lot of history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Park_(Charleston)#Union_Cemetery

phinetic wrote:: Hey yall I think my focus here on out is Hampton Park. 1) "During the mid-20th century, the park included a zoo. It was opened in 1932, and an aviary was added about six years later.[12] Most of the animals, including a lion , were donated to the zoo or bred at the zoo". I think whats important here is that they had a single lion, and they also had an aviary. For what its worth, I think that in the top two images within the ferrys wings are two birds, maybe even peacocks. 2) The USS Maine was previous at Hampton Park which has been a focus of a lot of peoples searches. 3) https://imgur.com/a/pvpdM This image illistrates the face in both the painting and the overhead view of Hampton Park. 4) Hampton Park itself has a lot of history. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hampton_Park_(Charleston)#Union_Cemetery You are hot on my trail. I posted a potential solve a few pages back. Link to PDF is in there.

Seabass - Let me tell you why I think you're wrong, just like youre telling me why I'm wrong. 1) In both casques that were found the state was outlined in the painting. Yes, I understand there is a map of Cahrleston is in the picture, my point is that Byron used outlines in the previous two images. The purpose to acknowledge that this is an outline of SC atleast allows us to possibly look away from the branches and trying to make any sense of them and waste time looking for something. I dont know why you dont think this could be the outline. Here is a imagine from another painting: https://imgur.com/a/ga5g5 Not perfect, but its there. I dont think anyone can say for sure whether it is or not an outline. 2) You posted a picture from Hampton Park in 1971, which is way, way too early. If you look at aerial picture in 1989 ( https://imgur.com/a/T4KwZ ), you can clearly see a similar outline and image as it is today. Unless you know for a fact what the detail was when Byron burried the casques in the early 80s I'll take your dismissiveness which a large grain of salt.

Even if we found an outline of South Carolina, or the other states in the other Images, what does this buy us? Getting back to Charleston, there is a very prominent map on the skull. What more do we need?

gManTexas wrote:: Even if we found an outline of South Carolina, or the other states in the other Images, what does this buy us? Getting back to Charleston, there is a very prominent map on the skull. What more do we need? And some interesting lat/log numbers, right?

MrSeabass wrote:: Notice how there's no image of California in the San Francisco image. Notice how there's no image of Texas in the Houston solve. the map of California is under her right arm, above the table. the map of the texas coast (where houston is) is behind the djinn fountain.

are there any statues in hampton park?

maltedfalcon wrote:: the map of California is under her right arm, above the table. the map of the texas coast (where houston is) is behind the djinn fountain. See, this is great to know!!! Thank you maltedfalcon. The whole point is that we obviously know it may be in Charleston, but I think what this does is that if we can find the state outline within the painting, we can say that the branches in that particular area illustrate the state outline and we can focus on other areas of the painting to solve the puzzle! That was my whole point. If we can focus and maybe solve what you think is irrelevant or insignifcant areas of the painting and we may narrow down the important details. You guys are so "who cares we know its in South Carolina already" but I think its important to solve each section of the painting so that if we know a certain section means something, we can focus more on other areas and not spend 5 hours figuring out what a certain area means when it might just be a simple state outline!

Here are the photos of Marion Square. I took photos of everything I could in the park. They were setting up huge tents for something and had some sections fenced off. I think I got most of it. I also took photos of surrounding buildings, signs, markers, etc. May jog someone's memory and maybe lead to a clue or maybe nothing. Either way, enjoyed being downtown this weekend and having lunch with my wife. https://imgur.com/a/r67av Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: Here are the photos of Marion Square. I took photos of everything I could in the park. They were setting up huge tents for something and had some sections fenced off. I think I got most of it. I also took photos of surrounding buildings, signs, markers, etc. May jog someone's memory and maybe lead to a clue or maybe nothing. Either way, enjoyed being downtown this weekend and having lunch with my wife. https://imgur.com/a/r67av Regards, Mac Thanks for these Mac. Did you notice anything that would reference: Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended

Thanks. That fountain is a hexagon. Any idea what the phrases written around it are?

I noticed the writing on the benches of that fountain after looking at the pictures. I didn't even notice that when down there. I will try to get pictures next time I go downtown. Hopefully next weekend. Also, nothing on 8th where law defended, but I have not put much time in Marion Square. Grabbed the photos, went to lunch and then had to get back home. Regards, Mac

drunknerds wrote:: That fountain is a hexagon. Any idea what the phrases written around it are? It's been a few years, but I believe the pentagon is engraved on the sides with the Rotary Club's "Four-Way Test": Is it the truth? Is it fair to all concerned? Will it build goodwill and better friendships? Will it be beneficial to all concerned? The fifth side also mentions how the Rotary Club gifted the fountain to the city of Charleston.

I search this forum for statues and did see anyone talking about it, I could be wrong about that. anyone else see the fairy wing on the left side the page that looks like a statue of mary holding a leaf?

Let's reel this in a bit. There is clearly animal imagery in Image 2. We have a huge lion, a primate, and what appears to be birds. Where in Charleston do we or did we have these animals? Or do people think this is just a reference to Africa in general?

gManTexas wrote:: Let's reel this in a bit. There is clearly animal imagery in Image 2. We have a huge lion, a primate, and what appears to be birds. Where in Charleston do we or did we have these animals? Or do people think this is just a reference to Africa in general? I think Lion may have two meanings, one to signify Africa and the other to possible signify a person or that person's persona. I see the the mask as also being representative of the slave trade, not necessarily a primate. I've seen a few people talk about birds but I see them more as a cobblestone design worked into the fairy's wings. I've had the pleasure of visiting Charleston many times and these cobblestone streets seem to pop up everywhere when you're downtown.

the lion is representative of e Africa and the door knocker on 50 East Bay St....I already released the full solution for this... the birds are the birds that nest above the bandstand in april (see my youtube video)...they are large and loud waterbirds.

[quote=" the birds are the birds that nest above the bandstand in april (see my youtube video)...they are large and loud waterbirds.[/quote] Is Part 2 of your video on youtube? I found part one, but it cuts off before you give a solution.

yea the last videos are shit though, it got dark out. where did i end at, corner of E Battery? from there, youd walk down E Battery; along Rainbow Row; till you get to 50 E Bay St. there you find the star (white star, tells you its a building and relates to white building in verse) and lion door knocker. on way (at end of E Battery Wall) you find monument to first black naval commander, some haitian dude. if i recall correctly, next clue is the edwin/edwina clue, which takes you to the Jasper monument. the connection here is that both have things named after them; mainly ships in the case of Jasper, in relation to this puzzle. on eighth a scene...takes you to the pirate monument at NE corner of WPG...which is a ruse. the fact that the eighth is a ref to this monument is reinforced by the earlier clue about Harken to the words of a patriot, 1840". its a ruse, bc if you didnt break the purely visual pendant clues, you will think the white house is the saussere house, the palms are the palms around it, and your focus is on the E Battery wall; instead of the S Battery wall. a similar ruse is employed in the NYC puzzle. where law defended relates back to the first (treasure island) clue; in that it reinforces the idea that pirates were killed and buried in the park...so this is reinforcing the idea that we do NOT dig in WPG...if we didnt already figure that out in the beginning. bw 2 arms extended...wed think this relates to 2 cannons if we fell for the ruse; but we know this is a reference to the arm of the sundial (shadow) at 4pm; and cannon across from the Fort Sumter Association Building. the sundial is a monument commemorating a naval disaster that occurred in april (in which the ships went down in 4 minutes). the monument was also dedicated in april, as well. the cannon and sundial are offset. so we stand bw them on an angle; facing the FSAB; looking West down S Battery. below the bar that binds...is a literary reference from "the history of kinyaro bitara" (#19 in the East African Studies Collection). the quote it takes us to tells us its the "bar that binds water". so we know that the treasure is UNDER the protection of one of the battery walls. wed think this refers to the E Battery wall if we fell for the ruse; but it refers to the S Battery wall. this is reinforced by a plaque discussing the creation of the battery walls, west down s battery from wpg. beside the long palm's shadow...tells us the location of the treasure will be marked by the shadow of a palm tree at 4pm. so, we can deduce that it is one of 4 palms; based on the framing of the cannon and sundial. embedded in sand...tells us the casque will be buried in sand. so, we can eliminate 3 of the palms...one has its shadow in WPG; one has its shadow in the street; one has its shadow fall in a garden outside the FSAB, but this garden is dirt, not sand. so, by now we know that the treasure is under the protection of the S Battery wall; bw the 2 arms (cannon/sundial) extended; beside the shadow of our designated palm tree at 4pm; near to the white house (the FSAB). thus, the treasure is located in the triangle sandbox on the S side of the FSAB; W outside of WPG, along S Battery; right behind the stairs. you can see the triangle sandbox in the painting under the faery's arms.

fyi when i refer to S Battery as a St...i meant Murray...my bad. heres where the treasure was... when i got there there was no little palm; coconut fibres were replaced with rocks. only half the garden bw shadow and building was sand. at 4pm shadow falls to back corner of stairs against building. leaving you about half of it. https://www.google.ca/maps/@32.7695555, ... 312!8i6656

but the traingles dont match, at all. The actual triangle box in the south wall points west and the one in the image points east.

Honestly I think that its not in Charelston but rather Sullivans Island or Mt PLeasant. Having the bridge from charelston and down coleman road as the branch is too specific to just have us go back to white point garden. It has to be telling us to go towards mount pleasant direction. Also most people see 'sunglasses' on the far right side but I possibly see a mountain, further points to mt pleasant, not to mention that this is where most of the slaves came in.

phinetic wrote:: Honestly I think that its not in Charelston but rather Sullivans Island or Mt PLeasant. Having the bridge from charelston and down coleman road as the branch is too specific to just have us go back to white point garden. It has to be telling us to go towards mount pleasant direction. Also most people see 'sunglasses' on the far right side but I possibly see a mountain, further points to mt pleasant, not to mention that this is where most of the slaves came in. I like your ideas, they echo a lot of the sentiment about, "hey let's just explore other avenues because the wpg has key stuff but mayyyy still just be coincidence, because other than the lion's nose there's literally no on-site image matches" Show me some image matches and I'll gladly subscribe to your newsletter.

Here you go: I 've been messing around with the photo on photoshop and found some interesting things. One is that I found 3 perfect circles in the image in different colors and decided to connect them, and they formed a perfect triangle within the image. https://imgur.com/a/hBOs9 . I thought to myself "is this helping me narrow down where to look for the casque if I overlay Image 2 with a map of coleman road, and I didnt find anything...EXCEPT!!! There is a cross in the lions mane above the beginning of colemans road and found a very, very interesting cemetary almost exactly where the cross lays. From wiki: "Remley Point Cemetery is cemetery located in the Scanlonville community in Mt. Pleasant, South Carolina. It contains 41 marked graves ranging from 1867 to 1989, but residents claim there may be over 1,000 people, largely African American, buried there.[2]" Additionally, check out an image from the cemetary, it is very, very unique indeed. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Remley_Point_Cemetery#/media/File:Remley_Point_Cemetery_2.jpg By the way, Scanlonville, which is the area that is in this triangle, https://imgur.com/a/kYCaR also has an interesting history: "Scanlonville is a hidden and quiet marsh-front community located on the corner of Seventh Avenue and Mathis Ferry Road just past Fire Department #3. Established after the Civil War, this African-American community enjoys a rich heritage spanning over 100 years. After the war, many former slaves began to establish their own farms and businesses. The development of Scanlonville is one such enterprise. In 1868, freedman-carpenter Robert Scanlon purchased the 614-acre Remley’s Plantation that was bordered by the Charleston Harbor and the Wando River. The property was previously owned by Paul Remley who died in 1863. Scanlon founded the Charleston Land Company and 100 African-American men paid $10 per share to purchase large tracts of land. The land was divided into two-acre farm lots and half-acre town lots. By 1870, former slaves who desired to own land could purchase town or farm lots. The Charleston Land Company and the development of Scanlonville is one of four known cooperative ventures between African-American freedmen." In summary I think the cross in the image represents this cemetary which is directly north of the beignning of colemand road and the cross and the actual cemetary are almost identical in their locations when you transpose both images on one another. I don't know if this helps us at all but I think that these weird circles in the image cannot be ignored. They are diffenetly purposful and I think we need to really look at this image in different ways, we should even rotate it, even look at it upsideodwn. Hell, the 79 is written upsidedown, why not analyze it from that angle too! There are too many clues pointing out towards Mt Pleasant (maybe there maybe beyond there), but it seems SO RIDICULOUS to have a literal map of Charleston in the image, have a reference going out towards Mount pleasant (the bridge/tree) to only have a reference go back towards Charelston towards white point gardens. What on earth would be the point of the bridge reference if it didn't lead you out there. You see the image of Charlelston, you get the reference of the bridge, it leads you out thay way, not back!!!!! This idea just brushes the surface of what I got right now and what I've been working on, but honestly a lot of you guys are being so snobish I dont think I'll be sharing anything else anymore on here. You guys sure do know how to push people down and shut down any idea that doesnt fit your own theory. Im out.

you sure those arent artifacts? try looking at the image in the expedition unknown episode and see if you can spot them. the one is particularly noticeable. but i see at least 4. other than the 2 you note there is one in the black space to the left of the lion's ear and another to the right of the cross in the lions mane. so im not sure which you used. what does a map of coleman road have to do with anything? what is coleman road? where is it? why coleman? what made you overlay the triangle on or around coleman as opposed to elsewhere? what is the connection to coleman?

phinetic wrote:: but the traingles dont match, at all. The actual triangle box in the south wall points west and the one in the image points east. what triangles do you speak of?

are you talking about the triangle sandbox? not only is it exactly the shape it is in the painting...nothing says it has to point the same way...how can a sandbox in a painting be pointing in a cardinal direction? its a painting. its there the colour of sand marked by the shadow of the palm tree (her arms are making).

Seriously fam? The bend in the pine branch near the pear could represent the bend in Route 703 (Coleman Blvd) as it passes through Mt. Pleasant just east of Charleston. To the southwest of this bend is Patriots Point, which is one of two departure points for ferries to Fort Sumter. Prior to its demolition in 2005, the Silas N. PEAR MAN BRIDGE , PEAR!!!! would have connected at the upper left corner of this map, where Route 703 splits in half to form the on-ramp and off-ramp for the bridge. The bridge passed over Drum Island and connected to the Charleston peninsula. https://imgur.com/a/9Io1L

wtf are you talking about? i never mention the branch...the branch takes from charleston to georgetown, with the section on the right kicking you down into the islands in the next inlet up. i always said the pear represented pearman bridge, so im not sure wtf it is youre disputing, exactly... yes the branch takes you over pearman, past patriots point and through down into dewee's island.

So why do you think its in some area to the south of Fort Sumpters House if all these clues lead out from Charelston towards Mt. Pleasant?

what does any of that have to do with the triangle sandbox? or any triangles whatsoever for that matter?

are you on crack? how do all the clues lead you out of charleston to mount pleasant? you are doing it backwards. you start in mount pleasant and make your way into charleston bro...you literally have to ignore 85% of clues to make that statement...

also, there is the greater puzzle and the treasure hunt...if you follow the treasure hunt clues, you get to the location i have posted. without question lol.

fyi the reason you start across the river is because you would need to start there in order to take the ferry over to Fort Sumter (from Patriot's Point); and you need to go to Fort Moultrie before that.

one more thing...even by your own logic...wouldnt the cross be on the charleston side? lol

lol bro theres a map of Charleston. Its in the picture. Anyone can get that reference. Theres no reason to have a reference to pearman bridge if it didnt go that way. You're telling me most people would see the pearman bridge reference and then notice the map of charelston? Answer me this, which one is it: 1) You notice the map of Charleston, and then notice the pearman bridge reference leading you to mount pleasant 2) You notice pearman bridge, and then notice the map of charelston and think its leading you to charelston What is the purpose?

anus905 wrote:: one more thing...even by your own logic...wouldnt the cross be on the charleston side? lol https://imgur.com/a/kYCaR Can you read a map? Where is the cross? Mt. Pleasant. Is there an age requirement for this website?

sorry i didnt realize you arbitrarily placed a triangle on a map...

could also be the start of the cooper river, which goes from lake moultrie to the ocean.

phinetic wrote:: lol bro theres a map of Charleston. Its in the picture. Anyone can get that reference. Theres no reason to have a reference to pearman bridge if it didnt go that way. You're telling me most people would see the pearman bridge reference and then notice the map of charelston? Answer me this, which one is it: 1) You notice the map of Charleston, and then notice the pearman bridge reference leading you to mount pleasant 2) You notice pearman bridge, and then notice the map of charelston and think its leading you to charelston What is the purpose? cause the casque is buried in charleston. the puzzle takes you all over, not all of it relates to the treasure hunt, specifically. the exact reason, he takes you over the pearman bridge to patriot's point, is because that is where you would need to go to catch the ferry to fort sumter in 1981...

you actually follow the path the cannons took for the most part.

davinci4 wrote:: . One question I had was regarding the tree that was out front in the 80s. Do we know what type it was? Would have been really amazing if it was a pear tree. Just a quick follow-up on this one, as I was never able to find a definitive answer. Besides NPS, I also reached out to the Seminole Nation's Ah-Tah-Thi-Ki Museum with a research request, but the manager I spoke with had no information since Osceola's burial and subsequent gravesite maintenance was handled entirely by the US Government. Her best guess was that the "missing tree" beneath Osceola's grave might actually be a mahogany, and that it could have either grown naturally or been planted by Fort Moultrie personnel. So there's that.

A while back, Sullivan's Island Magazine asked me to write an article for them about the ongoing I2 search. Here's the link in case anyone's interested: hxxp://sullivansislandmagazine.com/s/20 ... ns-island/

wheres sullivans island?

anus905 wrote:: wheres sullivans island? Don't ever change, Josh.

oh I see, that's where fort moutlrie is didn't realize that was a separate island. why do you think its there?! I think that's in or around where you start. might go back to Dewee's Island via the butterfly relating to the sea pansy, which is bio luminescent and buries itself in sand.

JamesV wrote:: A while back, Sullivan's Island Magazine asked me to write an article for them about the ongoing I2 search. Here's the link in case anyone's interested: hxxp://sullivansislandmagazine.com/s/20 ... ns-island/ Great article James! ...did the archeologists ever give you a sense of their process? Do they require some physical evidence (GPR, ground probing) of the casque before they will actually dig? You have such a great solution mapped out in a very specific area. Wondering what ‘steps’ are required on their end to move forward.

James, nicely done. Good to hear someone has the opportunity to make such close connections in the area around their solve.

davinci4 wrote:: Wondering what ‘steps’ are required on their end to move forward. To be honest, I don't really know myself, so I don't want to speculate too far outside my lane. Could be months, could be years before we see any kind of movement? I'd love to have some kind of definite way forward lined up before this summer though, since I'm slated to head back overseas for a couple more years. Although I told NPS, if a dig were to get approved then I'd definitely be on the first flight home!

JamesV wrote:: To be honest, I don't really know myself, so I don't want to speculate too far outside my lane. Could be months, could be years before we see any kind of movement? I'd love to have some kind of definite way forward lined up before this summer though, since I'm slated to head back overseas for a couple more years. Although I told NPS, if a dig were to get approved then I'd definitely be on the first flight home! I think it really comes down to how much ‘historical significance’ they place on the cask. As exciting as a discovery it would be, I would be curious to know how they would view the recovery from an archeological perspective. It seems in other areas there has been some good cooperation from the local archeologist. Even archeologists though have to go through their approval process, which given the proposed location here, may take more time.

davinci4 wrote:: I think it really comes down to how much ‘historical significance’ they place on the cask. As exciting as a discovery it would be, I would be curious to know how they would view the recovery from an archeological perspective. It seems in other areas there has been some good cooperation from the local archeologist. Even archeologists though have to go through their approval process, which given the proposed location here, may take more time. I suppose if someone found some lost writings from Edgar Allan Poe that said The Gold Bug was real and there was an actual treasure, archaeologists would be all over that. The Secret, maybe not so much...

Just wanted to pass along "Where is Osceola?", a cool 1968 article from Sandlapper, the now-defunct magazine of South Carolina. Interesting to read about the alleged "grave robbing" which led to Osceola's re-interment the next year. Article starts on page 43...and just FYI, as best as I could tell from NPS photos, that cypress tree alongside Osceola's grave was gone by 1976: https://dc.statelibrary.sc.gov/bitstrea ... sAllowed=y

JamesV wrote:: Just wanted to pass along "Where is Osceola?", a cool 1968 article from Sandlapper, the now-defunct magazine of South Carolina. Interesting to read about the alleged "grave robbing" which led to Osceola's re-interment the next year. Article starts on page 43...and just FYI, as best as I could tell from NPS photos, that cypress tree alongside Osceola's grave was gone by 1976: https://dc.statelibrary.sc.gov/bitstrea ... sAllowed=y Hey James, this is pretty cool. I'm going to see if there are other issues. Do you have a quick link, or should I hunt around?

gManTexas wrote:: Hey James, this is pretty cool. I'm going to see if there are other issues. Do you have a quick link, or should I hunt around? Never hunt when you don't have to! Here's the link to the SC Digital Library Archives...it's an awesome resource for exploring any of the proposed dig sites for Image 2: hxxp://scmemory.org .

Full disclosure: Admittedly, I was not even aware of The Secret until the airing of one of my favorite shows earlier this year. Yes, I am one of those people on here. Unlike the real diehard fans of the book who have been collaborating and searching for years, I just dvr’d an episode of ExU, and here we are. However, I will try to do my best. (If short on time, Scroll to last paragraph for the good part. But where is the fun in that?) A couple things about me before I get started… First, I do not proclaim to be an expert at anything. If what I have to say sounds uninformed, it might actually be. Second, even I will agree that some of my ramblings may get a little repetitive and off track at times, and I will try to stay as coherent and on-point as I can. No guarantees. Third, I have been reading hundreds of posts and looking at thousands of photos, traveling up and down the streets of Charleston (with Google Maps, of course), perusing magazine and newspaper articles, as well as reading up on the overall history of Charleston and its many museums, forts, historic homes and the people who lived there. If I post something that seems like old news, my apologies. I have so much bouncing around in my head on this that I can’t keep it all straight. I like Charleston and the surrounding area as a vacation spot. I had been there a few years ago with no knowledge of The Secret. To think I may have been standing on top of it and not even known. After doing some reading, I drove down there earlier this month to poke around a little. Clearly, I didn’t find anything, or my one and only post on here would just read, “Found it!” I formed a plan and made two carefully thought-out lists: One was buildings, parks, streets and forts to inspect, photograph and crawl around. The other was restaurants. I like to eat, and I needed my strength for all that searching. Now, let’s get to it… Unfortunately for you all, I kind of have to start at the beginning. For me, that is Image 2. Obviously. Although it appears not everyone is in agreement that it is depicting Charleston, I think I am in the majority who say it is clearly Charleston. The Charleston area has a clear historic link to Africa. By no means am I saying it is a good link, but it is what it is, and we can all learn from history. Breaking down the parts of Image 2 from top to bottom: The Lion: I was not able to get a real lion at the zoo to sit still long enough to inspect its face, so I went online for photos to make some comparisons. Overall, the image looks pretty spot-on when compared to photos of actual lions. Some similarities are the general shape and coloring of the head, the eyes and the light patches underneath, and the contemplative look on the face. Some slight differences between the online photos and the Image 2 lion are the shape of the nose, ears and mane. However, I know not all lions are the same, so it seems like the differences are maybe coincidental or artistic preference and not necessarily intended to be clues other than the clear connection to Africa. There is a shadowy image on the forehead. To me, it looks like the designs in the slate rocks used to make sidewalks all over Charleston. Or maybe a rough sketch of a city’s boundary lines. So why a male lion? There are female lions in Africa. Female lions have foreheads. Maybe a male is a more powerful image. Maybe we need the connection of “King” later. Maybe it has to be a male lion, so he can give it a strange hairline and hide markings in the mane that appear to be letters, numbers, and/or shapes. Some think they see “Navy Yard” in the top of the mane. Maybe it is “Heyward”. As for the numbers, we all seem to think we know what they are, so I will move to the Mask. The Mask: It appears to be a reference to African culture as well. Some tribes or groups would carve masks for specific purposes – rituals, ceremonies, special occasions, war, etc. I found so many examples online. Some are big. Some are small. Some are short. Some are long. Some have huge holes for eyes. Some have tiny slits for eyes. Some have an outline over the eyebrow area. Some are painted. Some have hair, fur, feathers, teeth and such. Some are very crude carvings. Some are beautifully crafted, ornate pieces of art. But not one of the examples I saw online had a map of Charleston on the forehead. Pretty sure it’s Charleston. Moving on… The “glasses” are not glasses. It looks more like a line (rope) draped over the crossbar or boom of a ship’s mast. Or something very similar. Any sailors, please chime in on the correct terminology. As an example, check out the mast/flagpole at the Carolina Yacht Club located 50 E. Bay Street. Or, really, any sailboat anywhere. The Yacht Club’s flag is a red and blue pennant with a white star in the center. That may come up later. Now, The Fairy: We are apparently not all in agreement here. Cannons? Peacock feathers? Birds? Eskimo? Cobblestones? Beaches? I think I see a reverse of Sullivan’s Island on her lower right wing. Maybe. While I do see what other people are referring to as cannon(s) and stones and birds, the book talks about fairies, maybe it is just a fairy. But then why not go with a cute little smiling Tinkerbell-looking fairy? I think the image of the woman is more important than her fairy-ness. So, to me, she is not a fairy. She is a woman in a bikini standing in front of some butterfly wings. And for the wings, I would like to think that if JJP wanted to make mirror images of the wings, he would have the talent to do so. There must be some reason that the wings and the images on them are not symmetrical. Back to the woman. Her arms are folded with her hands just under her chin. Some think the shadows formed by her hands resemble a palm tree. Maybe. But I don’t think that correlates with the Verse 6 “Long Palm’s Shadow” unless it is just meant to connect the verse to the image. She has bracelets on which could symbolize slavery. Another post pointed out her resemblance to Wonder Woman. Maybe we are looking for an amazonium mine. Her eyes appear closed. Is she asleep? Just waking up? And why is she wearing what she is wearing? It must be to emphasize her body form. I believe there are only two other painted fairies in the other images – 5 and 11. The Image 5 fairy is a reference to a fountain in which there are several loosely-clothed figures, and fairy 5 is clothed similarly. The Image 11 fairy appears to reference a painting in which the figure is fully clothed, and fairy 11 is again clothed similarly. So, we need to find something similar-looking in the area. A statue or painting maybe. Also, I don’t think there is any writing or numbers in her hair. I think it is again meant to look like something in the area. Her “bikini bottoms” appear to be folded and loose, except for the middle portion. It appears brighter and sharp. An arrow? A sail? Not sure, but it is clearly different from the rest of her outfit. The Tree: The branch looks like any tree branch on just about any tree. It kind of resembles the shape of the live oak tree branches in the parks. I don’t know that the exact type is as important as the overall reason for it being there. One school of thought is that it is a map of the highway connecting Charleston to Mount Pleasant, and then on to Sullivan’s Island and Fort Moultrie. I understand that Sullivan’s Island was said to be the “Ellis Island of slavery” which further connects the image to Africa. However, while I enjoyed searching all over Fort Moultrie and the surrounding beaches and connecting everything to Poe, Osceola (or Oceola), and so on, I still think the location is Charleston. We might need to know about Sullivan’s Island, Fort Moultrie, Poe, etc. But having everything else point to Charleston just to have the location be on Sullivan’s Island is like having all the clues pointing to San Francisco and saying, “Ok, now let’s go look in Oakland.” Our tree branch may resemble the roads, which have changed since the 80’s, but I think it is more likely that it just represents a tree. It may also be a decorative addition to have something from which the pear and pedant hang. The Pear: Some think it points us to the Pearman Bridge, which came down after the new Ravenel Bridge opened in 2005. I think it is just a pear. Actually, I think it is a loquat. But rather than paint a loquat and have readers wonder what that funny looking pear is doing there, JJP pained a pear – something most people would recognize. There are loquat trees all over the area, and if I need to make a loose connection here: Loquat… in the Lowcountry? Heh? Maybe not. It is also possible that the faint image below the pear is a base, and the pear resembles a ball shape. This can be seen atop the brick gateposts at some of the historic homes and plantations. Or maybe it’s just a pear. The Flower: It appears to be a daisy. But the center is not a raised fluffy yellow button like you see on daisies. It is a flat oval shape. Given that the round table in the SF image is thought to be the trolley turnaround, maybe this is also pointing us to something flat and round (or oval) we should be seeing. Like a penny, or a table top. The daisy also has a shadow, which I think is just a possible connection to the verse. Daisy looks like a palm tree, has a shadow… “Beside the Long Palm’s Shadow”. That may be the only connection. It does look pretty busted up for a normally pretty flower. If it is only supposed to resemble a palm or palmetto tree, then ok, it does. Sort of. But if it is intended to reference something else, I don’t yet know what. The Pendant (Fort Sumter): I don’t get it. We have this beautiful painting of a lion, a mask, a pear and a fairy, and then… a cartoon-looking pendant. Where is all the intricate detail found in the rest of the image? This is just a clock with big goofy eyes and a jacked-up grill. I have looked all over for anything that resembles the mouth. Could be stairs. Maybe a boat of some sort. Maybe it looks like teeth, because it is supposed to resemble the pointy teeth found on some African masks. At first, the eyes looked to me like manhole covers. Look at the sidewalk outside the First Presbyterian Church at Market and Tradd. Maybe they are FDC caps from a specific building we are looking for. Maybe they are really screws. I think they look like Do Not Enter street signs – like those at King and S. Battery… or Church and Water St. Water is a theme in the images and verses, and there is a cross in the lion’s mane. Again, not sure. This next part is a little tricky. Mostly because I just really want it to be right. After looking at the Ft. Sumter pendant and then a map of Charleston, and then back and forth, back and forth, it finally hit me. The Sumter clock is set to 4:00, but it is off-center just slightly. Maybe this is True vs. Magnetic North, maybe something else… like what it refers to is also not quite North and South… like the streets of Charleston. *Follow me here: If we overlay the Sumter clock hands on the map, they are a near-perfect match for Church and Water St. or Meeting and Water St. including the star on the face matching the star of the yacht club. If we use Church St., we have Do Not Enter signs for eyes. If we use Meeting, we have the manhole covers that we would pass as we move north. Either way, it puts the tip of the hour hand near the stairs on the battery. If we use Meeting St., the tip of the minute hand is near Four Corners of the Law, but more specifically, Washington Park. With Church and Water St. the tip of the minute hand is at the Heyward-Washington House and either way, “White house close at hand”. The HW house is not white, but Washington was a president... White House... Hand of a clock... We are close! I think the Sumter clock is a map to our location. That is why it looks a little off when compared to the rest of the painting. To help it stand out as a “Hey, look at me. Use me.” Then the mouth with 12 white pointy teeth falls right about where White Point Garden is. It is not that the cask location is in WPG, it is just confirming the alignment of our map. If I can tie in the colored bars on the other cheek, we are good to go! Thanks All!

did you read my solution/watch my walkthrough vid of the treasure hunt? you follow the path of the cannons from Moultrie to sumter to eventually WPG. the faery relates to an African butterfly which you then use to connect to a sea creature found on dewees island that is bioluminescent and buries itself in sand. youre right about the mast, that introduces the naval theme of the puzzle (hunley, capstand, pirates, jasper being named after ships, first black naval captain, black dude who stole confed ship to warn union, sundial, and monument you pass on way to sundial...might have missed a couple) end spot is/was the triangle shaped sandbox at the side of the Fort Sumter Association Building, which is designated by standing in the park and looking at the building- offset- between the sundial and cannon. there are four palms framed by this, and you deduce correct one by process of elimination. the bar that binds clue tells you that its under the protection of the breaker wall...as the bar binds water, which you discern from the book on binyara kitaro (#19 in E. African Studies Collection). this relates to the battery wall which acts to protect both the treasures location and nice houses that line that road (Murray), along the S battery wall. if you didn't get visual clues, youd think it was prob at East Battery Wall by the Saussere House, instead of by the FSAB. final location is in painting under arms of faery, both the palm's shadow and triangle shaped sandbox.

also, did you eat at the Gnome Café?

you missed the connections when you were at 50 E Bay...lol...that's where you were supposed to go to solve the ornament clue. if you are just doing treasure hunt and start at bandstand, then you use the ornament to send you down toward 50 E Bay, past Rainbow Row, and where the pirates were buried off the point in the marshes along the E battery wall (which was then used as fill to build the houses on). when you get to 50 E Bay you see the lion (door knocker), and stars on the building (telling you that the star on the FS ornament is a building). so we now know that because the star is white, and it relates to a building, that relates to FS...that it is the FSAB. when you get there after going to NE corner for pirate clue...you see sundial about naval disaster that went down in 4 minutes in april. you use the arm extended at 4pm alongside the cannon to designate your orientation to finish off and deduce which palms are possible markers. and going from there...

this is the very succinct map of only the primary readings of the verse (and visual) clues directly relating to the treasure hunt, starting at the bandstand and ending at FSAB. https://www.google.ca/maps/dir/32.76985 ... m0!1m0!3e1

really youd start at least at Moultrie and maybe even further back, like Dewees Island...I haven't mapped this one all out yet. then youd go to patriots point and take the ferry to sumter, where youd learn naval history, about the cannons, and fall of the union at those spots. then youd cross over the Pearman Bridge (since rebuilt and renamed) as you head into Charleston, at which point youd go down E Bay towards WPG...although it might take you elsewhere before that...youd at least pass slave mart and all that stuff up past 50 E Bay.

UnprovenFact wrote:: Full disclosure: Admittedly, I was not even aware of The Secret until the airing of one of my favorite shows earlier this year. Yes, I am one of those people on here. Unlike the real diehard fans of the book who have been collaborating and searching for years, I just dvr’d an episode of ExU, and here we are. However, I will try to do my best. That's all we ask. Welcome to the forum. I hope you are used to how the internet attracts all sorts of personalities, as you will get to know a variety of people here. You might not have the time nor the stomach to read all of the threads and all of the posts and all of our history, but at least you have acknowledged that it exists. Do not be discouraged by the loudest voices, for you will soon be able to identify which "solutions" and "advice" are of the most use to you.

UnprovenFact wrote:: Full disclosure: Admittedly, I was not even aware of The Secret until the airing of one of my favorite shows earlier this year. Yes, I am one of those people on here. Unlike the real diehard fans of the book who have been collaborating and searching for years, I just dvr’d an episode of ExU, and here we are. However, I will try to do my best. (If short on time, Scroll to last paragraph for the good part. But where is the fun in that?) A couple things about me before I get started… First, I do not proclaim to be an expert at anything. If what I have to say sounds uninformed, it might actually be. Second, even I will agree that some of my ramblings may get a little repetitive and off track at times, and I will try to stay as coherent and on-point as I can. No guarantees. Third, I have been reading hundreds of posts and looking at thousands of photos, traveling up and down the streets of Charleston (with Google Maps, of course), perusing magazine and newspaper articles, as well as reading up on the overall history of Charleston and its many museums, forts, historic homes and the people who lived there. If I post something that seems like old news, my apologies. I have so much bouncing around in my head on this that I can’t keep it all straight. I like Charleston and the surrounding area as a vacation spot. I had been there a few years ago with no knowledge of The Secret. To think I may have been standing on top of it and not even known. After doing some reading, I drove down there earlier this month to poke around a little. Clearly, I didn’t find anything, or my one and only post on here would just read, “Found it!” I formed a plan and made two carefully thought-out lists: One was buildings, parks, streets and forts to inspect, photograph and crawl around. The other was restaurants. I like to eat, and I needed my strength for all that searching. Now, let’s get to it… Unfortunately for you all, I kind of have to start at the beginning. For me, that is Image 2. Obviously. Although it appears not everyone is in agreement that it is depicting Charleston, I think I am in the majority who say it is clearly Charleston. The Charleston area has a clear historic link to Africa. By no means am I saying it is a good link, but it is what it is, and we can all learn from history. Breaking down the parts of Image 2 from top to bottom: The Lion: I was not able to get a real lion at the zoo to sit still long enough to inspect its face, so I went online for photos to make some comparisons. Overall, the image looks pretty spot-on when compared to photos of actual lions. Some similarities are the general shape and coloring of the head, the eyes and the light patches underneath, and the contemplative look on the face. Some slight differences between the online photos and the Image 2 lion are the shape of the nose, ears and mane. However, I know not all lions are the same, so it seems like the differences are maybe coincidental or artistic preference and not necessarily intended to be clues other than the clear connection to Africa. There is a shadowy image on the forehead. To me, it looks like the designs in the slate rocks used to make sidewalks all over Charleston. Or maybe a rough sketch of a city’s boundary lines. So why a male lion? There are female lions in Africa. Female lions have foreheads. Maybe a male is a more powerful image. Maybe we need the connection of “King” later. Maybe it has to be a male lion, so he can give it a strange hairline and hide markings in the mane that appear to be letters, numbers, and/or shapes. Some think they see “Navy Yard” in the top of the mane. Maybe it is “Heyward”. As for the numbers, we all seem to think we know what they are, so I will move to the Mask. The Mask: It appears to be a reference to African culture as well. Some tribes or groups would carve masks for specific purposes – rituals, ceremonies, special occasions, war, etc. I found so many examples online. Some are big. Some are small. Some are short. Some are long. Some have huge holes for eyes. Some have tiny slits for eyes. Some have an outline over the eyebrow area. Some are painted. Some have hair, fur, feathers, teeth and such. Some are very crude carvings. Some are beautifully crafted, ornate pieces of art. But not one of the examples I saw online had a map of Charleston on the forehead. Pretty sure it’s Charleston. Moving on… The “glasses” are not glasses. It looks more like a line (rope) draped over the crossbar or boom of a ship’s mast. Or something very similar. Any sailors, please chime in on the correct terminology. As an example, check out the mast/flagpole at the Carolina Yacht Club located 50 E. Bay Street. Or, really, any sailboat anywhere. The Yacht Club’s flag is a red and blue pennant with a white star in the center. That may come up later. Now, The Fairy: We are apparently not all in agreement here. Cannons? Peacock feathers? Birds? Eskimo? Cobblestones? Beaches? I think I see a reverse of Sullivan’s Island on her lower right wing. Maybe. While I do see what other people are referring to as cannon(s) and stones and birds, the book talks about fairies, maybe it is just a fairy. But then why not go with a cute little smiling Tinkerbell-looking fairy? I think the image of the woman is more important than her fairy-ness. So, to me, she is not a fairy. She is a woman in a bikini standing in front of some butterfly wings. And for the wings, I would like to think that if JJP wanted to make mirror images of the wings, he would have the talent to do so. There must be some reason that the wings and the images on them are not symmetrical. Back to the woman. Her arms are folded with her hands just under her chin. Some think the shadows formed by her hands resemble a palm tree. Maybe. But I don’t think that correlates with the Verse 6 “Long Palm’s Shadow” unless it is just meant to connect the verse to the image. She has bracelets on which could symbolize slavery. Another post pointed out her resemblance to Wonder Woman. Maybe we are looking for an amazonium mine. Her eyes appear closed. Is she asleep? Just waking up? And why is she wearing what she is wearing? It must be to emphasize her body form. I believe there are only two other painted fairies in the other images – 5 and 11. The Image 5 fairy is a reference to a fountain in which there are several loosely-clothed figures, and fairy 5 is clothed similarly. The Image 11 fairy appears to reference a painting in which the figure is fully clothed, and fairy 11 is again clothed similarly. So, we need to find something similar-looking in the area. A statue or painting maybe. Also, I don’t think there is any writing or numbers in her hair. I think it is again meant to look like something in the area. Her “bikini bottoms” appear to be folded and loose, except for the middle portion. It appears brighter and sharp. An arrow? A sail? Not sure, but it is clearly different from the rest of her outfit. The Tree: The branch looks like any tree branch on just about any tree. It kind of resembles the shape of the live oak tree branches in the parks. I don’t know that the exact type is as important as the overall reason for it being there. One school of thought is that it is a map of the highway connecting Charleston to Mount Pleasant, and then on to Sullivan’s Island and Fort Moultrie. I understand that Sullivan’s Island was said to be the “Ellis Island of slavery” which further connects the image to Africa. However, while I enjoyed searching all over Fort Moultrie and the surrounding beaches and connecting everything to Poe, Osceola (or Oceola), and so on, I still think the location is Charleston. We might need to know about Sullivan’s Island, Fort Moultrie, Poe, etc. But having everything else point to Charleston just to have the location be on Sullivan’s Island is like having all the clues pointing to San Francisco and saying, “Ok, now let’s go look in Oakland.” Our tree branch may resemble the roads, which have changed since the 80’s, but I think it is more likely that it just represents a tree. It may also be a decorative addition to have something from which the pear and pedant hang. The Pear: Some think it points us to the Pearman Bridge, which came down after the new Ravenel Bridge opened in 2005. I think it is just a pear. Actually, I think it is a loquat. But rather than paint a loquat and have readers wonder what that funny looking pear is doing there, JJP pained a pear – something most people would recognize. There are loquat trees all over the area, and if I need to make a loose connection here: Loquat… in the Lowcountry? Heh? Maybe not. It is also possible that the faint image below the pear is a base, and the pear resembles a ball shape. This can be seen atop the brick gateposts at some of the historic homes and plantations. Or maybe it’s just a pear. The Flower: It appears to be a daisy. But the center is not a raised fluffy yellow button like you see on daisies. It is a flat oval shape. Given that the round table in the SF image is thought to be the trolley turnaround, maybe this is also pointing us to something flat and round (or oval) we should be seeing. Like a penny, or a table top. The daisy also has a shadow, which I think is just a possible connection to the verse. Daisy looks like a palm tree, has a shadow… “Beside the Long Palm’s Shadow”. That may be the only connection. It does look pretty busted up for a normally pretty flower. If it is only supposed to resemble a palm or palmetto tree, then ok, it does. Sort of. But if it is intended to reference something else, I don’t yet know what. The Pendant (Fort Sumter): I don’t get it. We have this beautiful painting of a lion, a mask, a pear and a fairy, and then… a cartoon-looking pendant. Where is all the intricate detail found in the rest of the image? This is just a clock with big goofy eyes and a jacked-up grill. I have looked all over for anything that resembles the mouth. Could be stairs. Maybe a boat of some sort. Maybe it looks like teeth, because it is supposed to resemble the pointy teeth found on some African masks. At first, the eyes looked to me like manhole covers. Look at the sidewalk outside the First Presbyterian Church at Market and Tradd. Maybe they are FDC caps from a specific building we are looking for. Maybe they are really screws. I think they look like Do Not Enter street signs – like those at King and S. Battery… or Church and Water St. Water is a theme in the images and verses, and there is a cross in the lion’s mane. Again, not sure. This next part is a little tricky. Mostly because I just really want it to be right. After looking at the Ft. Sumter pendant and then a map of Charleston, and then back and forth, back and forth, it finally hit me. The Sumter clock is set to 4:00, but it is off-center just slightly. Maybe this is True vs. Magnetic North, maybe something else… like what it refers to is also not quite North and South… like the streets of Charleston. *Follow me here: If we overlay the Sumter clock hands on the map, they are a near-perfect match for Church and Water St. or Meeting and Water St. including the star on the face matching the star of the yacht club. If we use Church St., we have Do Not Enter signs for eyes. If we use Meeting, we have the manhole covers that we would pass as we move north. Either way, it puts the tip of the hour hand near the stairs on the battery. If we use Meeting St., the tip of the minute hand is near Four Corners of the Law, but more specifically, Washington Park. With Church and Water St. the tip of the minute hand is at the Heyward-Washington House and either way, “White house close at hand”. The HW house is not white, but Washington was a president... White House... Hand of a clock... We are close! I think the Sumter clock is a map to our location. That is why it looks a little off when compared to the rest of the painting. To help it stand out as a “Hey, look at me. Use me.” Then the mouth with 12 white pointy teeth falls right about where White Point Garden is. It is not that the cask location is in WPG, it is just confirming the alignment of our map. If I can tie in the colored bars on the other cheek, we are good to go! Thanks All! Man, I'm upset that I missed this because it got buried by Josh Cornell's maniacal ravings. I want to read what you've written three times because it in inspiring. I'll be back with some thoughts, but thanks for sharing!

catherwood wrote:: That's all we ask. Welcome to the forum. I hope you are used to how the internet attracts all sorts of personalities, as you will get to know a variety of people here. You might not have the time nor the stomach to read all of the threads and all of the posts and all of our history, but at least you have acknowledged that it exists. Do not be discouraged by the loudest voices, for you will soon be able to identify which "solutions" and "advice" are of the most use to you. Catherwood- thank you so much for posting this.

UnprovenFact wrote:: Full disclosure: Admittedly, I was not even aware of The Secret until the airing of one of my favorite shows earlier this year. Yes, I am one of those people on here. Unlike the real diehard fans of the book who have been collaborating and searching for years, I just dvr’d an episode of ExU, and here we are. However, I will try to do my best. (If short on time, Scroll to last paragraph for the good part. But where is the fun in that?) A couple things about me before I get started… First, I do not proclaim to be an expert at anything. If what I have to say sounds uninformed, it might actually be. Second, even I will agree that some of my ramblings may get a little repetitive and off track at times, and I will try to stay as coherent and on-point as I can. No guarantees. Third, I have been reading hundreds of posts and looking at thousands of photos, traveling up and down the streets of Charleston (with Google Maps, of course), perusing magazine and newspaper articles, as well as reading up on the overall history of Charleston and its many museums, forts, historic homes and the people who lived there. If I post something that seems like old news, my apologies. I have so much bouncing around in my head on this that I can’t keep it all straight. I like Charleston and the surrounding area as a vacation spot. I had been there a few years ago with no knowledge of The Secret. To think I may have been standing on top of it and not even known. After doing some reading, I drove down there earlier this month to poke around a little. Clearly, I didn’t find anything, or my one and only post on here would just read, “Found it!” I formed a plan and made two carefully thought-out lists: One was buildings, parks, streets and forts to inspect, photograph and crawl around. The other was restaurants. I like to eat, and I needed my strength for all that searching. Now, let’s get to it… Unfortunately for you all, I kind of have to start at the beginning. For me, that is Image 2. Obviously. Although it appears not everyone is in agreement that it is depicting Charleston, I think I am in the majority who say it is clearly Charleston. The Charleston area has a clear historic link to Africa. By no means am I saying it is a good link, but it is what it is, and we can all learn from history. Breaking down the parts of Image 2 from top to bottom: The Lion: I was not able to get a real lion at the zoo to sit still long enough to inspect its face, so I went online for photos to make some comparisons. Overall, the image looks pretty spot-on when compared to photos of actual lions. Some similarities are the general shape and coloring of the head, the eyes and the light patches underneath, and the contemplative look on the face. Some slight differences between the online photos and the Image 2 lion are the shape of the nose, ears and mane. However, I know not all lions are the same, so it seems like the differences are maybe coincidental or artistic preference and not necessarily intended to be clues other than the clear connection to Africa. There is a shadowy image on the forehead. To me, it looks like the designs in the slate rocks used to make sidewalks all over Charleston. Or maybe a rough sketch of a city’s boundary lines. So why a male lion? There are female lions in Africa. Female lions have foreheads. Maybe a male is a more powerful image. Maybe we need the connection of “King” later. Maybe it has to be a male lion, so he can give it a strange hairline and hide markings in the mane that appear to be letters, numbers, and/or shapes. Some think they see “Navy Yard” in the top of the mane. Maybe it is “Heyward”. As for the numbers, we all seem to think we know what they are, so I will move to the Mask. The Mask: It appears to be a reference to African culture as well. Some tribes or groups would carve masks for specific purposes – rituals, ceremonies, special occasions, war, etc. I found so many examples online. Some are big. Some are small. Some are short. Some are long. Some have huge holes for eyes. Some have tiny slits for eyes. Some have an outline over the eyebrow area. Some are painted. Some have hair, fur, feathers, teeth and such. Some are very crude carvings. Some are beautifully crafted, ornate pieces of art. But not one of the examples I saw online had a map of Charleston on the forehead. Pretty sure it’s Charleston. Moving on… The “glasses” are not glasses. It looks more like a line (rope) draped over the crossbar or boom of a ship’s mast. Or something very similar. Any sailors, please chime in on the correct terminology. As an example, check out the mast/flagpole at the Carolina Yacht Club located 50 E. Bay Street. Or, really, any sailboat anywhere. The Yacht Club’s flag is a red and blue pennant with a white star in the center. That may come up later. Now, The Fairy: We are apparently not all in agreement here. Cannons? Peacock feathers? Birds? Eskimo? Cobblestones? Beaches? I think I see a reverse of Sullivan’s Island on her lower right wing. Maybe. While I do see what other people are referring to as cannon(s) and stones and birds, the book talks about fairies, maybe it is just a fairy. But then why not go with a cute little smiling Tinkerbell-looking fairy? I think the image of the woman is more important than her fairy-ness. So, to me, she is not a fairy. She is a woman in a bikini standing in front of some butterfly wings. And for the wings, I would like to think that if JJP wanted to make mirror images of the wings, he would have the talent to do so. There must be some reason that the wings and the images on them are not symmetrical. Back to the woman. Her arms are folded with her hands just under her chin. Some think the shadows formed by her hands resemble a palm tree. Maybe. But I don’t think that correlates with the Verse 6 “Long Palm’s Shadow” unless it is just meant to connect the verse to the image. She has bracelets on which could symbolize slavery. Another post pointed out her resemblance to Wonder Woman. Maybe we are looking for an amazonium mine. Her eyes appear closed. Is she asleep? Just waking up? And why is she wearing what she is wearing? It must be to emphasize her body form. I believe there are only two other painted fairies in the other images – 5 and 11. The Image 5 fairy is a reference to a fountain in which there are several loosely-clothed figures, and fairy 5 is clothed similarly. The Image 11 fairy appears to reference a painting in which the figure is fully clothed, and fairy 11 is again clothed similarly. So, we need to find something similar-looking in the area. A statue or painting maybe. Also, I don’t think there is any writing or numbers in her hair. I think it is again meant to look like something in the area. Her “bikini bottoms” appear to be folded and loose, except for the middle portion. It appears brighter and sharp. An arrow? A sail? Not sure, but it is clearly different from the rest of her outfit. The Tree: The branch looks like any tree branch on just about any tree. It kind of resembles the shape of the live oak tree branches in the parks. I don’t know that the exact type is as important as the overall reason for it being there. One school of thought is that it is a map of the highway connecting Charleston to Mount Pleasant, and then on to Sullivan’s Island and Fort Moultrie. I understand that Sullivan’s Island was said to be the “Ellis Island of slavery” which further connects the image to Africa. However, while I enjoyed searching all over Fort Moultrie and the surrounding beaches and connecting everything to Poe, Osceola (or Oceola), and so on, I still think the location is Charleston. We might need to know about Sullivan’s Island, Fort Moultrie, Poe, etc. But having everything else point to Charleston just to have the location be on Sullivan’s Island is like having all the clues pointing to San Francisco and saying, “Ok, now let’s go look in Oakland.” Our tree branch may resemble the roads, which have changed since the 80’s, but I think it is more likely that it just represents a tree. It may also be a decorative addition to have something from which the pear and pedant hang. The Pear: Some think it points us to the Pearman Bridge, which came down after the new Ravenel Bridge opened in 2005. I think it is just a pear. Actually, I think it is a loquat. But rather than paint a loquat and have readers wonder what that funny looking pear is doing there, JJP pained a pear – something most people would recognize. There are loquat trees all over the area, and if I need to make a loose connection here: Loquat… in the Lowcountry? Heh? Maybe not. It is also possible that the faint image below the pear is a base, and the pear resembles a ball shape. This can be seen atop the brick gateposts at some of the historic homes and plantations. Or maybe it’s just a pear. The Flower: It appears to be a daisy. But the center is not a raised fluffy yellow button like you see on daisies. It is a flat oval shape. Given that the round table in the SF image is thought to be the trolley turnaround, maybe this is also pointing us to something flat and round (or oval) we should be seeing. Like a penny, or a table top. The daisy also has a shadow, which I think is just a possible connection to the verse. Daisy looks like a palm tree, has a shadow… “Beside the Long Palm’s Shadow”. That may be the only connection. It does look pretty busted up for a normally pretty flower. If it is only supposed to resemble a palm or palmetto tree, then ok, it does. Sort of. But if it is intended to reference something else, I don’t yet know what. The Pendant (Fort Sumter): I don’t get it. We have this beautiful painting of a lion, a mask, a pear and a fairy, and then… a cartoon-looking pendant. Where is all the intricate detail found in the rest of the image? This is just a clock with big goofy eyes and a jacked-up grill. I have looked all over for anything that resembles the mouth. Could be stairs. Maybe a boat of some sort. Maybe it looks like teeth, because it is supposed to resemble the pointy teeth found on some African masks. At first, the eyes looked to me like manhole covers. Look at the sidewalk outside the First Presbyterian Church at Market and Tradd. Maybe they are FDC caps from a specific building we are looking for. Maybe they are really screws. I think they look like Do Not Enter street signs – like those at King and S. Battery… or Church and Water St. Water is a theme in the images and verses, and there is a cross in the lion’s mane. Again, not sure. This next part is a little tricky. Mostly because I just really want it to be right. After looking at the Ft. Sumter pendant and then a map of Charleston, and then back and forth, back and forth, it finally hit me. The Sumter clock is set to 4:00, but it is off-center just slightly. Maybe this is True vs. Magnetic North, maybe something else… like what it refers to is also not quite North and South… like the streets of Charleston. *Follow me here: If we overlay the Sumter clock hands on the map, they are a near-perfect match for Church and Water St. or Meeting and Water St. including the star on the face matching the star of the yacht club. If we use Church St., we have Do Not Enter signs for eyes. If we use Meeting, we have the manhole covers that we would pass as we move north. Either way, it puts the tip of the hour hand near the stairs on the battery. If we use Meeting St., the tip of the minute hand is near Four Corners of the Law, but more specifically, Washington Park. With Church and Water St. the tip of the minute hand is at the Heyward-Washington House and either way, “White house close at hand”. The HW house is not white, but Washington was a president... White House... Hand of a clock... We are close! I think the Sumter clock is a map to our location. That is why it looks a little off when compared to the rest of the painting. To help it stand out as a “Hey, look at me. Use me.” Then the mouth with 12 white pointy teeth falls right about where White Point Garden is. It is not that the cask location is in WPG, it is just confirming the alignment of our map. If I can tie in the colored bars on the other cheek, we are good to go! Thanks All! Thank you for posting a well-thought solve. I am not working on this location but I'm sure there are others that will be happy to help.

Unprovenfact, you put a tremendous amount of work into this....well done. You may find people here who agree with all or some of your ideas, or you may have people that think you are out of your mind. I've been in both boats myself. But keep this in mind, we are all correct until someone proves your solve right or wrong. Good Luck

lol

UnprovenFact wrote:: Full disclosure: Admittedly, I was not even aware of The Secret until the airing of one of my favorite shows earlier this year. Yes, I am one of those people on here. Unlike the real diehard fans of the book who have been collaborating and searching for years, I just dvr’d an episode of ExU, and here we are. However, I will try to do my best. (If short on time, Scroll to last paragraph for the good part. But where is the fun in that?) A couple things about me before I get started… First, I do not proclaim to be an expert at anything. If what I have to say sounds uninformed, it might actually be. Second, even I will agree that some of my ramblings may get a little repetitive and off track at times, and I will try to stay as coherent and on-point as I can. No guarantees. Third, I have been reading hundreds of posts and looking at thousands of photos, traveling up and down the streets of Charleston (with Google Maps, of course), perusing magazine and newspaper articles, as well as reading up on the overall history of Charleston and its many museums, forts, historic homes and the people who lived there. If I post something that seems like old news, my apologies. I have so much bouncing around in my head on this that I can’t keep it all straight. I like Charleston and the surrounding area as a vacation spot. I had been there a few years ago with no knowledge of The Secret. To think I may have been standing on top of it and not even known. After doing some reading, I drove down there earlier this month to poke around a little. Clearly, I didn’t find anything, or my one and only post on here would just read, “Found it!” I formed a plan and made two carefully thought-out lists: One was buildings, parks, streets and forts to inspect, photograph and crawl around. The other was restaurants. I like to eat, and I needed my strength for all that searching. Now, let’s get to it… Unfortunately for you all, I kind of have to start at the beginning. For me, that is Image 2. Obviously. Although it appears not everyone is in agreement that it is depicting Charleston, I think I am in the majority who say it is clearly Charleston. The Charleston area has a clear historic link to Africa. By no means am I saying it is a good link, but it is what it is, and we can all learn from history. Breaking down the parts of Image 2 from top to bottom: The Lion: I was not able to get a real lion at the zoo to sit still long enough to inspect its face, so I went online for photos to make some comparisons. Overall, the image looks pretty spot-on when compared to photos of actual lions. Some similarities are the general shape and coloring of the head, the eyes and the light patches underneath, and the contemplative look on the face. Some slight differences between the online photos and the Image 2 lion are the shape of the nose, ears and mane. However, I know not all lions are the same, so it seems like the differences are maybe coincidental or artistic preference and not necessarily intended to be clues other than the clear connection to Africa. There is a shadowy image on the forehead. To me, it looks like the designs in the slate rocks used to make sidewalks all over Charleston. Or maybe a rough sketch of a city’s boundary lines. So why a male lion? There are female lions in Africa. Female lions have foreheads. Maybe a male is a more powerful image. Maybe we need the connection of “King” later. Maybe it has to be a male lion, so he can give it a strange hairline and hide markings in the mane that appear to be letters, numbers, and/or shapes. Some think they see “Navy Yard” in the top of the mane. Maybe it is “Heyward”. As for the numbers, we all seem to think we know what they are, so I will move to the Mask. The Mask: It appears to be a reference to African culture as well. Some tribes or groups would carve masks for specific purposes – rituals, ceremonies, special occasions, war, etc. I found so many examples online. Some are big. Some are small. Some are short. Some are long. Some have huge holes for eyes. Some have tiny slits for eyes. Some have an outline over the eyebrow area. Some are painted. Some have hair, fur, feathers, teeth and such. Some are very crude carvings. Some are beautifully crafted, ornate pieces of art. But not one of the examples I saw online had a map of Charleston on the forehead. Pretty sure it’s Charleston. Moving on… The “glasses” are not glasses. It looks more like a line (rope) draped over the crossbar or boom of a ship’s mast. Or something very similar. Any sailors, please chime in on the correct terminology. As an example, check out the mast/flagpole at the Carolina Yacht Club located 50 E. Bay Street. Or, really, any sailboat anywhere. The Yacht Club’s flag is a red and blue pennant with a white star in the center. That may come up later. Now, The Fairy: We are apparently not all in agreement here. Cannons? Peacock feathers? Birds? Eskimo? Cobblestones? Beaches? I think I see a reverse of Sullivan’s Island on her lower right wing. Maybe. While I do see what other people are referring to as cannon(s) and stones and birds, the book talks about fairies, maybe it is just a fairy. But then why not go with a cute little smiling Tinkerbell-looking fairy? I think the image of the woman is more important than her fairy-ness. So, to me, she is not a fairy. She is a woman in a bikini standing in front of some butterfly wings. And for the wings, I would like to think that if JJP wanted to make mirror images of the wings, he would have the talent to do so. There must be some reason that the wings and the images on them are not symmetrical. Back to the woman. Her arms are folded with her hands just under her chin. Some think the shadows formed by her hands resemble a palm tree. Maybe. But I don’t think that correlates with the Verse 6 “Long Palm’s Shadow” unless it is just meant to connect the verse to the image. She has bracelets on which could symbolize slavery. Another post pointed out her resemblance to Wonder Woman. Maybe we are looking for an amazonium mine. Her eyes appear closed. Is she asleep? Just waking up? And why is she wearing what she is wearing? It must be to emphasize her body form. I believe there are only two other painted fairies in the other images – 5 and 11. The Image 5 fairy is a reference to a fountain in which there are several loosely-clothed figures, and fairy 5 is clothed similarly. The Image 11 fairy appears to reference a painting in which the figure is fully clothed, and fairy 11 is again clothed similarly. So, we need to find something similar-looking in the area. A statue or painting maybe. Also, I don’t think there is any writing or numbers in her hair. I think it is again meant to look like something in the area. Her “bikini bottoms” appear to be folded and loose, except for the middle portion. It appears brighter and sharp. An arrow? A sail? Not sure, but it is clearly different from the rest of her outfit. The Tree: The branch looks like any tree branch on just about any tree. It kind of resembles the shape of the live oak tree branches in the parks. I don’t know that the exact type is as important as the overall reason for it being there. One school of thought is that it is a map of the highway connecting Charleston to Mount Pleasant, and then on to Sullivan’s Island and Fort Moultrie. I understand that Sullivan’s Island was said to be the “Ellis Island of slavery” which further connects the image to Africa. However, while I enjoyed searching all over Fort Moultrie and the surrounding beaches and connecting everything to Poe, Osceola (or Oceola), and so on, I still think the location is Charleston. We might need to know about Sullivan’s Island, Fort Moultrie, Poe, etc. But having everything else point to Charleston just to have the location be on Sullivan’s Island is like having all the clues pointing to San Francisco and saying, “Ok, now let’s go look in Oakland.” Our tree branch may resemble the roads, which have changed since the 80’s, but I think it is more likely that it just represents a tree. It may also be a decorative addition to have something from which the pear and pedant hang. The Pear: Some think it points us to the Pearman Bridge, which came down after the new Ravenel Bridge opened in 2005. I think it is just a pear. Actually, I think it is a loquat. But rather than paint a loquat and have readers wonder what that funny looking pear is doing there, JJP pained a pear – something most people would recognize. There are loquat trees all over the area, and if I need to make a loose connection here: Loquat… in the Lowcountry? Heh? Maybe not. It is also possible that the faint image below the pear is a base, and the pear resembles a ball shape. This can be seen atop the brick gateposts at some of the historic homes and plantations. Or maybe it’s just a pear. The Flower: It appears to be a daisy. But the center is not a raised fluffy yellow button like you see on daisies. It is a flat oval shape. Given that the round table in the SF image is thought to be the trolley turnaround, maybe this is also pointing us to something flat and round (or oval) we should be seeing. Like a penny, or a table top. The daisy also has a shadow, which I think is just a possible connection to the verse. Daisy looks like a palm tree, has a shadow… “Beside the Long Palm’s Shadow”. That may be the only connection. It does look pretty busted up for a normally pretty flower. If it is only supposed to resemble a palm or palmetto tree, then ok, it does. Sort of. But if it is intended to reference something else, I don’t yet know what. The Pendant (Fort Sumter): I don’t get it. We have this beautiful painting of a lion, a mask, a pear and a fairy, and then… a cartoon-looking pendant. Where is all the intricate detail found in the rest of the image? This is just a clock with big goofy eyes and a jacked-up grill. I have looked all over for anything that resembles the mouth. Could be stairs. Maybe a boat of some sort. Maybe it looks like teeth, because it is supposed to resemble the pointy teeth found on some African masks. At first, the eyes looked to me like manhole covers. Look at the sidewalk outside the First Presbyterian Church at Market and Tradd. Maybe they are FDC caps from a specific building we are looking for. Maybe they are really screws. I think they look like Do Not Enter street signs – like those at King and S. Battery… or Church and Water St. Water is a theme in the images and verses, and there is a cross in the lion’s mane. Again, not sure. This next part is a little tricky. Mostly because I just really want it to be right. After looking at the Ft. Sumter pendant and then a map of Charleston, and then back and forth, back and forth, it finally hit me. The Sumter clock is set to 4:00, but it is off-center just slightly. Maybe this is True vs. Magnetic North, maybe something else… like what it refers to is also not quite North and South… like the streets of Charleston. *Follow me here: If we overlay the Sumter clock hands on the map, they are a near-perfect match for Church and Water St. or Meeting and Water St. including the star on the face matching the star of the yacht club. If we use Church St., we have Do Not Enter signs for eyes. If we use Meeting, we have the manhole covers that we would pass as we move north. Either way, it puts the tip of the hour hand near the stairs on the battery. If we use Meeting St., the tip of the minute hand is near Four Corners of the Law, but more specifically, Washington Park. With Church and Water St. the tip of the minute hand is at the Heyward-Washington House and either way, “White house close at hand”. The HW house is not white, but Washington was a president... White House... Hand of a clock... We are close! I think the Sumter clock is a map to our location. That is why it looks a little off when compared to the rest of the painting. To help it stand out as a “Hey, look at me. Use me.” Then the mouth with 12 white pointy teeth falls right about where White Point Garden is. It is not that the cask location is in WPG, it is just confirming the alignment of our map. If I can tie in the colored bars on the other cheek, we are good to go! Thanks All! I like this, most of it at least. The pear is a deliberately strange object to put in this image. It has significance. It is hard to picture the mask in the shape of Fort Sumter as not being a reference to Sumter. Now, it could have a dual purpose and be a map overlay as you've suggested. I also do not agree that the branch is insignificant. If I am correct, there are no pines in WPG, but there are in Hampton Park. What is interesting to me is that you've analyzed the location without applying a Verse. That's pretty cool, but the way this game works is to pair them and use both to determine the final location.

UnprovenFact wrote:: At first, the eyes looked to me like manhole covers. ) Find the Earthquake bolt(s), find The cask. That is the "fence and fixture" of this image. I think. I will admit you lost me at the end, but I respect your overall analysis and the perspective you are using to pick apart the clues.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: ) Find the Earthquake bolt(s), find The cask. That is the "fence and fixture" of this image. I think. I will admit you lost me at the end, but I respect your overall analysis and the perspective you are using to pick apart the clues. wouldn't that be the triangle shaped sand garden marked by the palm under the faery's arms?

I appreciate all of the input, and I will try to keep this and future posts shorter: My first post was a mash up of every thought and every detail that came to mind while looking at this image (and others) over the past few months. It was all of my mental notes that I was having difficulty keeping straight. I initially typed it all out just to keep a record of my thoughts and ideas and to maybe someday post it piece-by-piece, but I got excited, and we all saw what happened. Believe it or not, that was an edited and condensed version. Can you imagine? So, I read some responses to my first post, went back over some of my notes which didn’t make the cut, and I wanted to clarify a couple points which I see ruffled some well-established feathers: Real Quick, my comments of the tree being a “decorative addition to have something from which the pear and pedant hang” and “…Or maybe it’s just a pear” were tongue-in-cheek and meant to be more of a transition to my next thought. I don’t know what the tree and pear mean yet, so it was kind of my way of saying, “Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar” and then move on to the next topic. No big deal. For the tree branch: I don’t really know trees. I know maples, pines, and palms… and only because there are helicopters, pine cones, and coconuts on the ground underneath them. I can occasionally recognize some fruit trees, but only if they still have their fruit on them. I only recently learned about live oaks from my trips to the Charleston area. So, when I am saying the branch looks like any branch on any tree, it does – to me, anyway. I know there is a significance to the branch, because he likely would not have taken the time to paint it otherwise. I just think the significance is not necessarily in the species of tree, but rather the shape of the branch. If it really is the species, I don’t stand a chance. I really hope it is the shape. I believe it is Image 4 which has Ohio and a tower outlined in the trees. Maybe that is what we are looking for. I just don’t know yet. And I could swear I found that exact shape in one of the trees in Washington Park. But I don’t know. The Pear: Also significant to the image, as it too would likely not have been painted otherwise. Or at least not so big. This pear is huge when compared to the woman’s head but about the right size if the lion wanted to eat it. No, I’m not saying lions eat pears. Maybe it is another example of painting in perspective, which could mean it is somehow closer to us in relation to the woman if we are standing in a particular spot. Or maybe it is of higher importance in the overall message of the image. I will say, if it had a little man painted inside it, I would absolutely agree Pear + Man = Pearman… Bridge. I suppose I see where that connection could be made with just the pear alone. I sometimes forget that major landmarks may no longer exist, so it is harder for me to relate them to the image. But this bridge thing got me thinking and looking around the internet. I may have an additional theory. More on that at a later time. Fort Sumter: You can’t know about U.S. History without knowing about The Civil War… The South… Charleston… Fort Sumter. That is where the first shots took place. That is where it all started (sort of). So, the Sumter Fort-face-clock-pendant may be the most historically significant of all the images. Yes, Fort Pulaski along the Savannah River looks just like Fort Sumter, and the surrounding area around Pulaski and Hilton Head looks very similar to the islands, inlets, marshes, beaches and… Nope. I’m still going with Fort Sumter and Charleston. I’ve come too far to change cities. The star on the Sumter face is approximately where the original flagpole was when it was a fort, and the colored bars on the other check are about where the flagpoles are now (sort of). Maybe this is significant. Or, it could be that the colored bars are Ft. Johnson, the star is Ft. Moultrie, and the mouth is Morris Island or more specifically Ft. Wagner. That would utilize all of the face images, including the clock hands which I think reference streets, and the eyes which may resemble earthquake bolts or street signs. I have street-viewed all up and down Charleston but still have not found earthquake bolt caps that resemble those screw eyes. However, if not manhole covers, bolt caps or street signs, another possible match could be the Carolopolis award plaques on the historic buildings. Maybe our path takes us between two buildings with those plaques on them. If they are referring to earthquake bolts, does anyone know of any earthquake bolts that go between two structures? From an engineering perspective, that doesn’t really make sense to do that, but what if three structures were at one time connected, and the middle structure was removed or destroyed? That might leave an area where the bolts are exposed. Or if there is a small alley or path between to structures, they may have connected them for added stability. Either scenario would thereby make visible a “Bar that binds.” I will try to come up with a correlation to a verse at some point. That's all for now.

MrSeabass wrote:: The pear attached to the branch cannot and will not be anything but a representation of the Pearman bridge connected to the Coleman highway, full stop. Yeah...but... Is the bridge about the right size if the lion wanted to eat it....

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wway9azlb2iipmm/raquel.pdf?dl=0 The lady in the doe skin bikini looks like Raquel Welch from the movie One Million Years BC. In the movie she is a blonde, however, she is a brunette bombshell. She wore fur cuffs around her ankles in the movie, in the painting she has cuffs on her wrists. In the movie there were cavemen and dinosaurs. You could find them at the Charleston Museum of Natural History.

any one care to educate me on what Verse the April image should wed to?

James V and White Rabbit’s solutions are best I have seen to date (Fort Moultrie).

are you kidding me? mine is way better....

Mine are better.

Been out for a while... but reading the post above leading to Washington Square is intriguing. I have been interested in this location for a while... Another item rarely discussed is the second set of numbers in the lions mane. 32/79 are coordinates for Charleston, but what about the 33 and 80? Washington Square Park has two entrances. One is at 33 Chalmers Street (which is cobblestone) - The other entrance is 80 Broad Street, at the Four Corners of the Law. Just my 2 pennies... Regards, Mac

davinci4 wrote:: James V and White Rabbit’s solutions are best I have seen to date (Fort Moultrie). No real updates from my end on Image 2/Verse 5 since I haven't been able to make it back to Charleston, although Burnstyle looked into the spot a little more back in April. He was able to link up with an NPS employee at Fort Moultrie to go over the spot we'd described, and although there was no GPR available that day the two of them did make contact with a ground probe. So there's something there... although given the area outside of the fort, it could very well be just a brick, or something similar, and I don't think there's any way to tell for sure without digging it out. As always, the casque isn't found if it's still in the ground.

Wow! That’s actually pretty significant. Could be a brick or rock, but hitting something is better than nothing. Very interesting. Please keep us in the loop.

Just putting this out there , but has anyone ever put something like a tiny coring device at the end of there probe just to see if you can cut into what ever you hit. That way you can see if any plexiglass gets inside the core after you pull your probe out to check. I’m sure plexiglass would be easy to cut through just put a T handle on the probe so you can turn it

I have. No, plexi doesn't respond that well. Ideal conditions might give that result you're talking about. The trial and error process of not knowing if you've hit a rock or root or some other subsurface garbage puts a lot of wear and tear on the drill tool. My 20v Dewalt hammer drill was crying after punishing it in a clay rich area. Working it on my test box replica in my back yard, I was unable to penetrate the box when I used extra force. The ground temp beer cans hiding inside were safe and sound after rigorous testings.

Macfos wrote:: Another item rarely discussed is the second set of numbers in the lions mane. 32/79 are coordinates for Charleston, but what about the 33 and 80? Rarely discussed in the past many years, because early on it was assumed to be drawing a box, not pinpointing a GPS location. Back in the 1980s, the best access to latitude-longitude numbers to the average person was the grid lines in an atlas. Charleston is approximately somewhere between 32 and 33 degrees north latitude and between 79 and 80 degrees west longitude. No further accuracy was expected back then.

catherwood wrote:: Rarely discussed in the past many years, because early on it was assumed to be drawing a box, not pinpointing a GPS location. Back in the 1980s, the best access to latitude-longitude numbers to the average person was the grid lines in an atlas. Charleston is approximately somewhere between 32 and 33 degrees north latitude and between 79 and 80 degrees west longitude. No further accuracy was expected back then. Got it. Why dont we see that in other images? Seems like the second set of numbers may be more significant than just generalize coordinates. Just my thoughts though. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: Got it. Why dont we see that in other images? Seems like the second set of numbers may be more significant than just generalize coordinates. I know we've found pairs of numbers in other images, and they are always just one degree in difference, which reinforces the box concept. I don't have the list at hand, but i'm sure someone can point you to pre-existing lists of data.

erexere wrote:: I have. No, plexi doesn't respond that well. Ideal conditions might give that result you're talking about. The trial and error process of not knowing if you've hit a rock or root or some other subsurface garbage puts a lot of wear and tear on the drill tool. My 20v Dewalt hammer drill was crying after punishing it in a clay rich area. Working it on my test box replica in my back yard, I was unable to penetrate the box when I used extra force. The ground temp beer cans hiding inside were safe and sound after rigorous testings. Wait a minute, you put poor, helpless beer cans in a box underground? I wish I could have helped you dig them up....that's a true treasure right there.

MrBackstop wrote:: Wait a minute, you put poor, helpless beer cans in a box underground? I know! He is an animal!

Has there been any discussion of the woman's feet in the image? They look alittle weird and are silhouetted...maybe their silhouette matches a landmark or part of a statue?

hardatlurk wrote:: Has there been any discussion of the woman's feet in the image? They look alittle weird and are silhouetted...maybe their silhouette matches a landmark or part of a statue? I looked back I didn't see any discussion of them other than the thought they were submerged in water.... Good catch!

I remember reading that the feet were thought to look like the peninsula or possibly local rivers. Another interesting thing is that the girl in general besides the hair resembles the "logo" of the Stella Maris church on Sullivans Island across the street from the Fort. I threw that out a while back but did not get any feedback except for drunknerds... which was a hoot. He is a funny dude. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: I remember reading that the feet were thought to look like the peninsula or possibly local rivers. Another interesting thing is that the girl in general besides the hair resembles the "logo" of the Stella Maris church on Sullivans Island across the street from the Fort. I threw that out a while back but did not get any feedback except for drunknerds... which was a hoot. He is a funny dude. Regards, Mac I could see them being the peninsula or the river, except we have have a depiction of all those on the mask. Msybe I just like feet, or maybe they look oddly squared off and pointy where tee toes would be. Flip them up side down and the silhouete could be the the outline of a building? If they are left right side up they kind look like horse hooves...?

Macfos wrote:: I remember reading that the feet were thought to look like the peninsula or possibly local rivers. Another interesting thing is that the girl in general besides the hair resembles the "logo" of the Stella Maris church on Sullivans Island across the street from the Fort. I threw that out a while back but did not get any feedback except for drunknerds... which was a hoot. He is a funny dude. Regards, Mac I tried to find what you're talking about just now as far as the "logo" is concerned. Unfortunately, the link you posted earlier int thread now gives a 404 error.

Here is the artwork I was referring to: Fineartamerica.com/shop/greeting+cards/stella+maris Also note it is on Middle street. The passage of the boats with slaves from Africa was The Middle Passage. Regards, Mac

Also note the waves resemble the fairy wings and she is holding an old boat which could resemble the boat mast and rope next to the mask in the image. In addition there is a very rare African cypress tree planted out front of the church which was brought a long time ago. There is an obelisk across the way at the fort and white stones at the ww2 memorial across the street. In addition, it is all sand. Just sayin' Regards, Mac

that image doesnt look like the woman to me...

JoshCornell wrote:: that image doesnt look like the woman to me... YES! it's a catfish upside down

what are you referring to spirit?

JoshCornell wrote:: what are you referring to spirit? you should know what I'm referring. Since you've been there and you're right next to it. Check again, look carefully.

Macfos wrote:: I remember reading that the feet were thought to look like the peninsula or possibly local rivers. Another interesting thing is that the girl in general besides the hair resembles the "logo" of the Stella Maris church on Sullivans Island across the street from the Fort. I threw that out a while back but did not get any feedback except for drunknerds... which was a hoot. He is a funny dude. Regards, Mac Thanks! I don't even remember this, but I hope I was more jovial than sarcastic. Can you throw the images up again?

The original one is gone, but I found a copy on another site. It was just the pose and the blueish of the water and the mast next to the skull that caught my attention. This was back when I was first looking at JamesV's solution. The cross in the lion's mane and some other older posts had me snooping around the church and the WWI memorial. hxxp://Fineartamerica.com/shop/greeting+cards/stella+maris Regards, Mac

Here are a bunch of pictures of Washington Square. I posted Marion Square a bit back in the thread. Trying to hit a different park here and there and get pics. https://imgur.com/a/abep8ZM Regards, Mac

Spiritr wrote:: you should know what I'm referring. Since you've been there and you're right next to it. Check again, look carefully. i mean other than the catfish at the hunley monument...are you referring to the painting...or one of the pics macfos posted?

Macfos wrote:: In addition there is a very rare African cypress tree planted out front of the church which was brought a long time ago. This one? The book didn't have any information about these trees out front, what type, when they were planted, etc.

Was it decided that it’s a pear in image two or a gourd? The gourd has a better connection to Africa. hxxp://www.amishgourds.com/product/kett ... argain-box

jayheedan1 wrote:: Was it decided that it’s a pear in image two or a gourd? The gourd has a better connection to Africa. hxxp://www.amishgourds.com/product/kett ... argain-box pearman bridge

JoshCornell wrote:: pearman bridge >:( Yes I know about the Pearman bridge and that it’s no longer standing being demolished in 2005; that it extended over Drum island. I wanted to know, if collectively, the q4t at large believes that to be the correct clue. It had never been mentioned that it could be a gourd, and if there are any other possible connections then pearman. After having a map and a road route why also emphasize this bridge? Why is there a representation of fort sumpter and not the other forts in the bay? (Yes I read you feel it’s buried with in the fort, some claimed by Osceolas grave). I don’t think Priess would have buried in a fort, but maybe that a bias of my generation. Preiss was born in ‘53, Does anyone that grew up in the 50’s or 60’s feel the same way? Or is the fort up for grabs?

Unknown: I wanted to know, if collectively, the q4t at large believes that to be the correct clue. There is very little that the Q4T at large (whatever that is) believes collectively. And ultimately, it only matters what you believe. IMO, too many people are spending way too much time (or so it seems) trying to convince others of what they believe to be true, instead of just putting the information out there and letting everyone decide for themselves whether that information is useful. In that spirit, "fairy secrets come in twos". Pear=Pearman/Pear=pair. FWIW.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I wanted to know, if collectively, the q4t at large believes that to be the correct clue. There is very little that the Q4T at large (whatever that is) believes collectively. At Large: 2. as a whole; in general. "there has been a loss of community values in society at large" synonyms: as a whole, generally, in general "society at large"

every clue has twofold meaning, the gold colour of the pear takes us very clearly to poe.

the other forts are implied in non visual ways. this puzzle has you following the path the cannons took from moultrie to wpg.

Unknown: At Large: Thank you, but I know what "at large" means. I'm just not sure how to apply it to this forum. Is it the people who are active now? Is it the people who were active recently, but no longer post. Is it everyone who has ever participated? Does it include lurkers? The point is the bigger the group, the less likely you are to get consensus. Which makes any question (not just yours) about what "people" believe somewhat pointless IMO.

JamesV wrote:: This one? The book didn't have any information about these trees out front, what type, when they were planted, etc. James - Yes that is the one. On your image it is the big tree on the right side of the cover, not the little skinny ones. Apparently it is a red or Jordanian cypress. I can't remember. I will have to try to find the link again and post it. If you are standing in front of the church, it is planted in the middle of the grassy area to the right of the entrance. Regards, Mac

I live in Mt Pleasant, SC and have been working on Image 2 and Verse 6 for a few months on and off since I saw the EU episode in January. Yes, I am one of those people who feel like they arrived at the party 30 years too late. I seem to have hit a roadblock in my research. I have read all the posts on Image 2 and Verse 6. I have read all the theories posted here and on The Secret wiki. I have physically visited many likely spots in Charleston and Sulllivan's Island. Like most of us I have found multiple spots that match some of the clues, but have failed to have the "a-ha" moment or find any convincing visual clues. Looking to collaborate with someone who is not already convinced they know the location of the casque, and is open minded and willing to consider all possible locations and solutions. Please don't reply by telling me to read your solve. Most likely I have already seen and read it. Since I am still hunting that should tell you your "solution" was not convincing enough for me. Since you are still reading the posts on this board, that tells me you are not totally convinced of your solve either. I'm not saying the casque isn't in WPG under the Moultrie statue, or buried in the garden next to the Ft Sumter House, near Osceola's grave at Ft Moultrie, or destroyed and no longer recoverable. I just have not seen enough links to the verse or image to convince me of any of the published locations or "solves". So, if you goal is to convince me of your solve, don't waste you time, I'm not interested. If you are interested in sharing ideas and thoughts, and collaborating to find a solution without guessing or assumptions, contact me. If you are in the Charleston area, that would be great. If not, I am willing to work with and help anyone trying to solve from afar. Thanks, Chris

Unknown: So, if you goal is to convince me of your solve, don't waste you time, Yeah, you're still going to get an earful from Josh. But there are at least a few people in your area who are working on this puzzle and maybe some of them will reach out to you. Collaboration is good. Happy hunting.

graceandhayes wrote:: I live in Mt Pleasant, SC and have been working on Image 2 and Verse 6 for a few months on and off since I saw the EU episode in January. Yes, I am one of those people who feel like they arrived at the party 30 years too late. I seem to have hit a roadblock in my research. I have read all the posts on Image 2 and Verse 6. I have read all the theories posted here and on The Secret wiki. I have physically visited many likely spots in Charleston and Sulllivan's Island. Like most of us I have found multiple spots that match some of the clues, but have failed to have the "a-ha" moment or find any convincing visual clues. Looking to collaborate with someone who is not already convinced they know the location of the casque, and is open minded and willing to consider all possible locations and solutions. Please don't reply by telling me to read your solve. Most likely I have already seen and read it. Since I am still hunting that should tell you your "solution" was not convincing enough for me. Since you are still reading the posts on this board, that tells me you are not totally convinced of your solve either. I'm not saying the casque isn't in WPG under the Moultrie statue, or buried in the garden next to the Ft Sumter House, near Osceola's grave at Ft Moultrie, or destroyed and no longer recoverable. I just have not seen enough links to the verse or image to convince me of any of the published locations or "solves". So, if you goal is to convince me of your solve, don't waste you time, I'm not interested. If you are interested in sharing ideas and thoughts, and collaborating to find a solution without guessing or assumptions, contact me. If you are in the Charleston area, that would be great. If not, I am willing to work with and help anyone trying to solve from afar. Thanks, Chris Welcome! I love that you did your research. Have you tried the Facebook group devoted to Charleston? This forum here is intended for open sharing of ideas. If you have any, we’d love to hear them.

you should watch my video on youtube if you are unconvined its at fsab/fsah seems bizarre he would include a random little garden in the painting, if it didnt have significance. lol but go wild the puzzle is large so theres lots of extraneous stuff to discover in charleston still.

Oh I have been following the exploits and postings of Josh and others for a few months. No offense, but my comment in my original post was meant primarily for you Josh. I also knew you couldn't resist a response, Josh. Everything going as expected at this point. LOL! I am not trying to offend Josh, or anyone else. My only comment to Josh and others - Stop trying to convince everyone you have solved it. If you are so sure, it shouldn't matter what anyone else thinks or says. You have stated you case for the location, now leave the rest of us alone. For those of us still searching. I have some ideas, but I am not great at organizing or presenting my thoughts in writing, and I am terrible at editing or highlighting things I think I see in the image. I guess I need some good photo editing software and a lesson on how to use it. I'll see what I can do on posting ideas or things I don't think have been mentioned yet.

graceandhayes wrote:: Yes, I am one of those people who feel like they arrived at the party 30 years too late. I seem to have hit a roadblock in my research. I have read all the posts on Image 2 and Verse 6. I have read all the theories posted here and on The Secret wiki. I'm Sorry I totally missed your original post Welcome! you aren't late you are right on time! I am so jealous, Charleston is such a beautiful area.

Unknown: Also, for what it's worth, the Charleston Facebook page for The Secret is a Josh-free zone. It also seems to be a content-free zone with only 5 posts in the last 30 says. Maybe some new blood will perk things up.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: It also seems to be a content-free zone with only 5 posts in the last 30 says. Maybe some new blood will perk things up.

I am also on the Facebook page for The Secret - Charleston, but as mentioned, not much activity there. Not much activity on the wiki either for Charleston. I think most on the wiki are convinced it is, or was, in WPG and no one is actively searching. Let me throw out a couple of things that bother me on the image, but I have not seen much discussion on. Maybe this will start some polite conversations, or an argument. LOL. - The birthmark on the lion's forehead must be important, and like most, driving me crazy. WTF is that! - The lion's left cheek, on the right in the image. Is it me or does anyone else see the head and neck of a horse maybe. The eye of the horse is the dark spot to the left of the lion's eye. The nose/snout extends toward the lion's nose under his eye. The hairs on the lions mane even appear to come out of the back of the horse's head like the mane on a horse. Its not exact, but there is something there. I say this because the two cheeks on the lion do not match. - What is that to the right of the mask? Part of ships mast? Must be important, but what it it? - What is the face behind this ships mast/ropes to the right of the mask? - Willing to listen to any ideas on the fairy or her wings. This must have clues, but I have not seen anything solid on this. - I think the branch is less significant than the needles on the branch. They seem to form shapes where they overlap. Triangles, X's or Roman Numeral 10's, there are clues in the needles I think. I should mention, the shape of the branches to the right of the pear reminds me of the Eye of Horus. - The African mask. Any links to the shapes of the eyes? What are the broken bits in the eye sockets? The "h" or outline over the eyes that extends onto the map? - The Ft Sumter mask/charm. Why is it not oriented correctly? On a map the long flat side of the fort faces SW, not N like shown in the image. What are the eyes, star, stripes, and mouth? - The diamond. Why do the two triangles on either side face up and not towards the center of the stone? What do these represent? What is written at the bottom - 75, 73, 7S? What does it mean? The center of the diamond is an hourglass shape which reminds me of a miniature of the fairy's body. It even has triangles at the top facing each other similar to the fairy bikini top or the shapes formed by her crossed arms. Ok, so that's a start. Looking forward to hearing what others think. Peace, Chris

Just a question. Is it appropriate to post thoughts and questions about Verse 6 here, or is there a Verse 6 thread I should post on?

graceandhayes wrote:: I am also on the Facebook page for The Secret - Charleston, but as mentioned, not much activity there. Not much activity on the wiki either for Charleston. I think most on the wiki are convinced it is, or was, in WPG and no one is actively searching. Let me throw out a couple of things that bother me on the image, but I have not seen much discussion on. Maybe this will start some polite conversations, or an argument. LOL. - The birthmark on the lion's forehead must be important, and like most, driving me crazy. WTF is that! - The lion's left cheek, on the right in the image. Is it me or does anyone else see the head and neck of a horse maybe. The eye of the horse is the dark spot to the left of the lion's eye. The nose/snout extends toward the lion's nose under his eye. The hairs on the lions mane even appear to come out of the back of the horse's head like the mane on a horse. Its not exact, but there is something there. I say this because the two cheeks on the lion do not match. - What is that to the right of the mask? Part of ships mast? Must be important, but what it it? - What is the face behind this ships mast/ropes to the right of the mask? - Willing to listen to any ideas on the fairy or her wings. This must have clues, but I have not seen anything solid on this. - I think the branch is less significant than the needles on the branch. They seem to form shapes where they overlap. Triangles, X's or Roman Numeral 10's, there are clues in the needles I think. I should mention, the shape of the branches to the right of the pear reminds me of the Eye of Horus. - The African mask. Any links to the shapes of the eyes? What are the broken bits in the eye sockets? The "h" or outline over the eyes that extends onto the map? - The Ft Sumter mask/charm. Why is it not oriented correctly? On a map the long flat side of the fort faces SW, not N like shown in the image. What are the eyes, star, stripes, and mouth? - The diamond. Why do the two triangles on either side face up and not towards the center of the stone? What do these represent? What is written at the bottom - 75, 73, 7S? What does it mean? The center of the diamond is an hourglass shape which reminds me of a miniature of the fairy's body. It even has triangles at the top facing each other similar to the fairy bikini top or the shapes formed by her crossed arms. Ok, so that's a start. Looking forward to hearing what others think. Peace, Chris Hi Chris! From your username I thought you might be two people. I am not active in the Charleston Search, but I am pretty sure there are quite a few people actively hunting there. I'm not sure they are even on q4t or FB I will mention your questions if I chat with any of them. Best of luck!

graceandhayes wrote:: Just a question. Is it appropriate to post thoughts and questions about Verse 6 here, or is there a Verse 6 thread I should post on? yes there is a verse 6 thread.

graceandhayes wrote:: Please don't reply by telling me to read your solve. Most likely I have already seen and read it. Since I am still hunting that should tell you your "solution" was not convincing enough for me. But Chris, as I clearly stated in my "solution"... I'm not as open minded on I2 as I was last year, but good on you for keeping at it-- these casques aren't found if they're still in the ground. Not currently "home" in Charleston at the moment, but would be happy to offer thoughts/opinions on any new theories.

Wanted to add a couple things I think I see in image 2 that I have not seen posted anywhere else. If it has I have missed it. I have shared this in a PM, but wanted to post here as well to get thoughts from others. Does anyone else see a ship on the bottom left of the lion's mane? It appears to me to be the front of a wooden sailing ship with the bow pointed left and it seems to be sailing out from the shadow on the left of the lion's face. It is just below the sideways '33". In fact what most feel is a sideways number '33' I think is actually the sails of the ship, or it may be both, or it may be neither one. LOL. What most believe is a cross in the bottom left of the mane I think is actually the anchor for the ship. It appears to be hanging from the bow of the ship. I tried to attach an image, but I get a message "the board attachment quota has been reached". Let me know if there is a spot I can post if others can't see what I am seeing. Also, the eyes of the African mask. I have searched everywhere for a similar shape, and hexagons are basically non-existent at every location I have been to. Lots of octagons, but no hexagons. I was doing some research on Post Office Park and the Old Post Office and I found a picture on Wikipedia that caught my eye. Go here, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_St ... h_Carolina ) and click on the top picture on the right side of the page to enlarge it. Then zoom in on the steeple of St Michael's Church on the left side of the picture. I think the arches at the top of the steeple match the arches on the African mask. The sky showing through the bottom of the arches with the railing balusters looks similar to the eyes on the mask with the lines below the eyes. The line in Verse 6 is, "Seen here by eyes of old". St Michael's Church is one of the oldest churches in Charleston, built in the 1750s. Are these the "eyes of old"? You can see the steeple from many places in lower downtown Charleston, but worth noting the angle is correct so you can see these "eyes" on the steeple from both Washington Park and Post Office Park.

In order to reconcile the Edwin debate, here's a crackpot theory that includes both. This is a diamond puzzle; it's going to be a tricky one. Now, "...the Fairy Spirits of Africa...fluttered down, like a windfall of butterflies, far from the tribal warfare and slave traders, upon...the New World's eastern shore". So, should we look for their treasure somewhere like Charleston's Hampton Park, named after one of the biggest slaveholders for miles...? Or White Point Gardens, with its memorials to warfare...? No, but further south, somewhere much more fitting to these fair folk; Savannah, Georgia. (The change of coordinates can be done easily enough by digging out an 81 from somewhere.) Here in the Savannah we find lions in abundance - four of them guard the base of Oglethorpe's statue in Chippewa Square, with "arms extended" (coat of arms, that is). Oglethorpe is a philanthropist, anti-slavery and general all round good egg. Edwin Booth played at the neighbouring Savannah Theatre several times, and as an added bonus it's also next to the birthplace of Juliette Gordon Low, founder of the Girl Scouts of Lake Park fame. Because...fairy secrets come in twos... ...yes, I appreciate that there are numerous clues that lead directly to Charleston. But it's all misdirection, you see, and the lion's mask is slipping...

You need to come back to the conclusion that it’s possible that the lions main (no pun intended) symbolism could be the lions MANE and that the lions nose represents the MAINE capstan that was removed from white point garden.

...probably, although in seriousness I did wonder whether BP would base clues for the casque sites around military figures and hardware, as has often come up in the past, based on the central themes of the book. I've also been hoping for a proper human translation of the arms extended / bar that binds Japanese hint, because I think it might rule out solutions based on sand bars and cannons... To find the keys is your reward For Fairy, peace the real accord.

Additionally I think in both of the actual found casques, none of them have been in different states than what was initially outlined in the paintings. I can appreciate the work and thought, but you’re way too far down the rabbit hole

...yeah, wasn't being entirely serious there...

there are lions literally everywhere....everywhere. the guy at the end of my old street has two big ass lions lol.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: ...probably, although in seriousness I did wonder whether BP would base clues for the casque sites around military figures and hardware, as has often come up in the past, based on the central themes of the book. I've also been hoping for a proper human translation of the arms extended / bar that binds Japanese hint, because I think it might rule out solutions based on sand bars and cannons... To find the keys is your reward For Fairy, peace the real accord. i already told everyone this...the first one leads to #19 in the e african studies collection...its the bar that binds WATER. the two arms extended are the shadow of the obelisk sundial and the cannon, the treasure is gone. i went there and dug. it was in the triangle shaped sand garden beside fort sumter association building. a billion times over...thats the spot clearly.

Song I see 2 turtle doves (in the butterfly wings) and a partridge perhaps in a PEAR tree. 12 days of Christmas Song. (Cross in the Lion's hair could be Christmas.) I need opinions.

hardatlurk wrote:: Has there been any discussion of the woman's feet in the image? They look alittle weird and are silhouetted...maybe their silhouette matches a landmark or part of a statue? The feet are crossed like Jesus on the cross along with the bottom cloth. The arms form a t cross.

The woman's feet are highlighted in blue. They say that the highlighted areas are map outlines.

funsun wrote:: The woman's feet are highlighted in blue. They say that the highlighted areas are map outlines.

funsun wrote:: The woman's feet are highlighted in blue. They say that the highlighted areas are map outlines. Hello funsun The blue highlights can mean a number of things from image to image. Many searchers think they are important while others think they are just a creative part of JJP's artwork style. I personally see the blue highlights as indicating certain keys to the puzzle or verse. Some highlighted parts of an image might be a confirmation of a waymarker that leads us to the treasure spot. In Image 4 the cup is highlighted (fountain in the Italian Garden next to the Greek Cultural Garden) which is a waymarker letting us know we are in the right area. In Chicago, see how the lady with the fairy wings from the Fountain of Great Lakes is highlighted in blue while the Chicago Water tower is not? This is telling us that the Fountain of Great Lakes is in the neighborhood or near the casque in this case while the Chicago Water Tower is just informing us of the City we are to search. Then there is Image 9 with no blue highlights. As for Image 2, I believe the blue highlights below her feet appear to be a path to take to go in the direction of the casque. So while these blue highlights may not be maps they can certainly help us along the route.

Mr. Backstop. Thank you for your worthy input.

funsun wrote:: Mr. Backstop. Thank you for your worthy input. Again(!), I believe that to mostly be nonsense. Palencar uses the same technique throughout his art, and the blue highlights that appear in both solved images did nothing to assist in the solves.

i still think it possibly denotes a water reading of the clue...its def not map, cause there are loads of map clues that are not highlighted in blue. see mtl, roanoake, etc.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Again(!), I believe that to mostly be nonsense. No problem funsun Merlot, I know you do. That's what makes these puzzles so entertaining. You think the highlights are simply artistic style and ignore them, that's why I wrote what I wrote. I see them as quite helpful like in the two that have been found.

MrBackstop wrote:: No problem funsun Merlot, I know you do. That's what makes these puzzles so entertaining. You think the highlights are simply artistic style and ignore them, that's why I wrote what I wrote. I see them as quite helpful like in the two that have been found. I definitely did/do not ignore them. I find that comment to be pretty patronizing. I formed an opinion about them after taking time and considering the available information. I could easily say "That's what makes these puzzles so entertaining. You think the evidence is simply subjective and choose to ignore it" In Image 5, the entire head and shoulders of the subject are surrounded by the halo. In image 4, the entire centaur has a halo. I do not accept the tail to be any kind of shoehorned map. But what if it is? The centaurs legs/back/arms, all with blue halo are insignificant as far as I can tell. I also cannot find any of the blue aura to be associated with any important hint in Image 5 (Chicago), unless where it stylistically has to extend up to include the fairy, but that's being generous. What I do find is Palencar using this technique throughout his art to the point that it cannot possibly be used as a hint to zero in on anything. Surely something in some image with a halo may be important, but that's a matter of statistical probability since there are auras everywhere. In either case "The blue halo around X, led us to Y and this was very important to our solve" was never uttered by anyone involved in finding either of the two retrieved casks.

Sorry Merlot That was not my intent.

JoshCornell wrote:: i still think it possibly denotes a water reading of the clue...its def not map, cause there are loads of map clues that are not highlighted in blue. see mtl, roanoake, etc. @josh Cornell Hey I was just reading that this was from thee Josh Cornell. I watched some of your videos on you tube. I think they are good for a beginner like myself to watch to help disect what to look for in a puzzle. Thanks for your comments on my posts.

ha. no worries. got big news in store.

I want to know what the yellow fruit mean

it takes us to the myths of prometheus bound/judgement of paris...as prometheus threw the golden pear from olympus to earth, at the feet of the three goddesses...and if you doubt me, consider how paris was selected to make the choice...and you'll have your confirmation

is this the only image that contains a fruit then?

no. sf has a strawberry.

ok, so a golden pear and a blue strawberry, you think there's a connection?

well, the only kind of strawberry that has a blue variant is the "woodland aka alpine strawberry" which is part of the rose family...and strawberries ripen for harvest in june (the first berry of the year...im a huge forager)...so there's that.