Verse 1 Fortress north Cold as glass Friendship south Take your task To the number Nine eight two Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! A whistle sounds. (My prediction is that this is describing sights in the children's zoo in Hermann Park, Houston, Texas)

Is this just a gut feeling Cat or do you have confirmers?  Nothing against you but I sure am hoping you are incorrect  8)

rfox, not sure if you want me to say this in the open forum, but I think your approach to the verses has missed the point.  For example, that one with "long palm's shadow" is most certainly going to be anything BUT a palm tree.  That's just how I would write a clue if I wanted to make a challenging treasure hunt.  It's the same reason people mistook the verse for Chicago as pointing to Washington, D.C.: the word 'congress' was put in there specifically to throw people off. So, how can we use the verses to find a location?  First of all remember, the images are what lead to the general location, while the verses are the specific instructions to follow once you get there.  If you interpret a verse to lead to a state, how will those clues also tell you where to dig? As for verse 1, I found the number 982 to be a train which was retired to this zoo.  In the zoo is also a miniature train ride and trails, and most likely a lion and a fountain.  I am imagining myself walking thru the park and seeing the sights and sounds as *suggested* by the verse.  Of course, I cannot confirm any of this until someone goes there, but that's my line of thought. Of course, none of this will pan out unless one of the images can be mated to the state of Texas.  I am still hoping to order the book this week.  I think I am missing a lot of the details with just the online scans.

I remember someone else saying that this particular verse led to Yellowstone National Park, where Old Faithful the water geyser was... 'There's the spout! A whistle sounds'

Cat, you may be correct about the palm shadow not necessarily meaning palm tree but other lines in V6 sure seem to point to FL.  I do feel that the P's lead you to a state or city and the V's narrow down the search....but, I dont think it is a stretch by saying some lines of the V's may also point to the general location (as well as linking it to a P), then going into detailed directions.  Take V6 as an example.  To me, the 1st half of the V seems to take us to the state of FL.  Now, the 2nd half (starting with "Between two arms extended...." seems to be giving us more precise directions. Now to V1.  I really like your ideas on the park in Houston.  A lot of your confirmers do seem to match...(there is a geyser in this park too Steve).  Just how can you take train #982 if it has been retired though?  ??? Just kidding Cat,  982 also referred to a train (believe it or not) in the area I'm researching.  Other things seem to fall into place as well...and if (as many believe) somewhere in the V connects it to a P, then my theory really begins to take off.  Although, you know first hand as do I (TQ) that once something is in our minds...we try (and usually succeed) to make them fit. In looking over most of the P scans that Mark so generously put up...there isnt a whole lot that is lost.  It does help to have your own copy to go over with a fine toothed comb though.  Glad to have you on board Cat.

A spouting whistle could well simply be the retired train. The casque could be hidden in the retired train itself...? There is a Friendship TX in Houston County. But apparently there are Friendships all over Texas. Let's see, where are those other straws I was grasping at...

Here's a link to train 982 in houston hxxp://www.rypn.org/TRPA/hxxp://www.ci. ... tory3.html I'm going to try to take a drive out there this weekend. Picture 8 seems to hold promise - animals (zoo) waterspout also, on the stones, by the waterspout, could the crosshatching be rail road tracks? In the tree, on the left side, there looks like a number 8.  In the tree, there is clearly a 95.  in the right side, there looks like a 9 and maybe a 6 (96) or 9E.  at the top of the tree, there is a space that looks like an N or S or Z or 2.  Or maybe I am just seeing things. wilhouse

It may be a bit crowded there this weekend because of the Super Bowl --- good luck, though!  Please take digital pics if you can.  I've been searching for pics of the park, and they are very difficult to find.  Apparently, there is a statue of Sam Houston (which actually reminds me of the Centaur Arch picture, but never mind), a reflecting pool, and a kids' train that goes around the park.  Unfortunately, I have also read that Train 982 is going to be MOVED to a museum soon! hxxp://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:gyKKJUvWbDYJ:www.steamlocomotive.com/lists/TX.html+982+Hermann+Park&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

this is too weird.  I checked the web site you sent me, and saw that one of the guys in charge of the train restoration works at parsons.  my company has a joint venture with parsons and I checked and yes, he sits on the floor above me. I just got off the phone with him and he says that the train will be in hermann park for another couple of months. and get this, the train sits across from the miniature locamotives.  note in verse 1 it says Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost.  Perhaps that is a reference to the small scale train!!

Unknown: What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! A whistle sounds. Bingo!  Take a look at this review of a book by Herman Melville, "Pierre." "Pierre " is more than a masterpiece., February 25, 1999 Reviewer: An Amazon.com Customer "Pierre," (written shortly after "Moby Dick") is called "The Book that ruined Melville." In fact, he never wrote another novel after "Pierre," but spent his last 40 years either unemployed or working as a customs official. But by the end of the 20th century a new generation of readers and critics had rediscovered him, and today his reputation is at the front rank of American authors. "Pierre" is a superbly controlled exploration of the deepest psychological motivations which underlie all human beha vior. If it is ambiguous, it is meant to be so, not in the sense of vagueness, but in the sense of many meanings. Melville, like Thomas Hardy is a master at depicting country life. And the conflicts in the novel are very much tied to country versus city living. The novel is Freudian, in its questing after the deepest reasons for human behaviors. Like most of us at some point in life, Pierre sees the father he had idolized as human and capable of error. His own values are put into question by the receipt of a note from his long-lost sister. Melville points out that we all walk "on a razor's edge of security.....that what we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event-the fallling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather." Melville does not spare Pierre from disillusion but continues to open him up0 with an "electrical insight" into the character of his mother. He sees how she has been molded by the culture and how her love for him is not unconditional, but based upon his outward beauty and docile behavior. Melville deals with nature versus nurture as he contrasts the honesty of natural growing things with the subtlety of cultural influences. The author is at his best with descriptions like this: "The sounds seemed waltzing in the room; the sounds hung pendulous like glittering icicles from the corners of the room; and fell upon him with a ringing silveryness; and were drawn up again to the ceiling, and hung pendulous again, and dropt down upon him again with the ringing silveryness. Fireflies seemed buzzing in the sounds, summer-lightnings seemed vividly yet softly audible in the sounds. And still the wild girl played on the guitar; and her long dark shower of curls fell over it and vailed it; and still, out from the vail came the swarming sweetness, and the utter unintelligibleness, but the infinite significancies of the sounds of the guitar. The novel ends with a "Romeo and Juliet " death scene worthy of the original..."And from the fingers of Isabel dropped an empty vial-as it had been a run-out sand glass-and shivered upon the floor; and her whole form sloped sideways, and she fell upon Pierre's heart, and her long hair ran over him, and arbored him in ebon vines." The black hair of Isabel which enchanted Pierre at the beginning of the novel, covers his dead body at the end of the story. The ambiguities which began the narrative are unresolved at the end. All of us have many contradictions in our lives and most of us will not solve them. Like the genius that he was, Melville knows this. He digs deeply into the soul of Pierre trying to unravel the threads of his existence. We learn much about Pierre , and ourselves, and how we are the cause of what sometimes is our own destruction. We also learn about fate and the little that we can do to change our destinies. We learn about choices, and how the slightest incident can twist our parths toward other directions. Like Moby Dick, Pierre is Melville, calling out to us to read him. Like "Moby Dick" "Pierre" has been unread for generations. Perhaps this generation will embrace him and have the enriching experience only Melville can give. --This text refers to the Paperback edition I left the whole review in, as it may help us figure out to what the Verse is referring.  A leaf?  Security?  hmmm.

could it be: a quote from Herman Melville, and the train is in Hermann Park

Unknown: rfox, not sure if you want me to say this in the open forum, but I think your approach to the verses has missed the point.  For example, that one with "long palm's shadow" is most certainly going to be anything BUT a palm tree.  That's just how I would write a clue if I wanted to make a challenging treasure hunt.  It's the same reason people mistook the verse for Chicago as pointing to Washington, D.C.: the word 'congress' was put in there specifically to throw people off. So, how can we use the verses to find a location?  First of all remember, the images are what lead to the general location, while the verses are the specific instructions to follow once you get there.  If you interpret a verse to lead to a state, how will those clues also tell you where to dig? Egbert, Excellent find! Catherwood, You reminded me of something that I had forgotten.... I keep forgetting that although we all know that matching the images and verses is the key; we tend to, or at least I find myself, trying to ultimately come up with a logical set of rules that can be applied to matching the sets, or finding the casques... Remember there are no set rules, there is no indication that a rule that applies for matching one image to one verse, will apply to any other. It is simply our desire to find "the one key" that keeps us thinking that way... For instance, we have all felt if we understood the chicago casque it would help us match some of the others.. Yet that information has yet to benefit us in finding another. I'm not saying its no help! But consider that the flower, gem, month correlation has yet to be explained.. Perhaps it's random, just something to fester the idea in your head that they have common factors...

I agree with Manley.  If we are interpreting verse 1 correctly, and it leads to a spot, and even if we find which picture goes with it, it does not seem to be a necessity to do so. nevertheless, I am bringing a metal detector and shovel with me when I go to Hermann Park this weekend. Hopefully, I won't think the casque is in a place where I could get arrested... ok, I found the quote: Pierre by Melville, chapter ii. hxxp://andromeda.rutgers.edu/~ehrlich/511/pierre Judge, then, how all-desolating and withering the blast, that for Pierre, in one night, stripped his holiest shrine of all overlaid bloom, and buried the mild statue of the saint beneath the prostrated ruins of the soul's temple itself. ii As the vine flourishes, and the grape empurples close up to the very walls and muzzles of cannoned Ehrenbreitstein; so do the sweetest joys of life grow in the very jaws of its perils. But is life, indeed, a thing for all infidel levities, and we, its misdeemed beneficiaries, so utterly fools and infatuate, that what we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event--the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather? Are we so entirely insecure, that that casket, wherein we have placed our holiest and most final joy, and which we have secured by a lock of infinite deftness; can that casket be picked and desecrated at the merest stranger's touch, when we think that we alone hold the only and chosen key? note the great reference to casket and key and burying.

Well, I certainly feel that we've got the right spot.  We need to put our heads together and figure out the end of this verse.  The "falls gently" part could be referring to "a leaf" as in the quote from Melville, so perhaps Verse 1 is just referring us to a tree near the train.  Leaves fall, but not in December --- that is puzzling. Wilhouse, you should ask that guy you know if there is something there in December which "falls gently" -- a holiday decoration?  Probably not --- the verse probably refers to something that is more permanent or natural, like a statue or a tree (a waterfall or fountain?).  Your metal detector may not work --- I think the casque and key are made of ceramic.  Is it possible for you to take pictures so we can all see the spot and the layout?  The train is going to be moved, so this may be our last chance to "preserve" the location. Good luck!

here's the answer I got to the questions asked by Egbert: "982 was moved to its current spot in 1982.  Previously it was 90 degrees and about 100 feet closer to the zoo.  I don't know the exact spot. There has been for the past 2 years a Christmas Lights in the Park.  They had everything decorated for the season except for the locomotive.  Also had other vendors selling stuff.  " what we have to remember is that the book was published in 1982, so it is possible the authors saw the train the way it was, not the way it is.

Unknown: In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight Hey excellent link on the park Willhouse.... I was just reading thru in the info and something caught my eye, I'm an Archer from way back... these few verses may be references to the archery range that is also in that park.. In the center of four alike (a target) Small, Split, (some targets have split rings) Three winged and slight (arrows all have 3 fletchings/they could certainly be referred to as slight) Something to think about! Anyone have a map layout of the park?

Here is a site with maps and info about the park.  The site has outdated links to many of the attractions we'd like to see, though: hxxp://www.hermannpark.org/maps.htm Here's another site with a map link: hxxp://www.houstonzoo.org/Index.asp?Page_ID=25 The archery reference sounds good.  However, would a verse really refer to archery targets which can be easily moved?  Maybe there are statues near the archery range?  I would love to see 4 statues of arrows --- one small, one split, one with 3 fletchings, and one slight.  Or how about trees?  A split tree is possible.  Johann, if you get to the miniature train, look for 4 of something --- even trees --- and walk through the middle of them. I've been racking my brain about what would "fall gently in December night."  Snow?  hmmmm.

sorry, no snow in Houston how about a waterfall? by the way, leaves do fall in December in Houston, especially Oak tree leaves.  If you look at pic 8 (zoo animals, water spout, train track on the ground) you will notice a tree that looks suspiciously like an oak tree.  I believe it is the only pic with a tree. ok, when Melville talks about our Strongest Tower of Delight, he is talking about his father and the loss of idealism he has for his father. but he is also talking about anything we hold dear.  symbolically, "falls gently in December night" could mean the old year falling away or the holidays falling away. so perhaps there is some holiday item that is removed at the end of the year.  it being January, it would already be gone though.  Just ruminating to see if anyone has a thread to explore on this item.

A few observations: 1. Egbert, I am not the one going to Houston this weekend, but one of us is. 2. Everyone should check out this map and its links: www.houstonmuseumdistrict.org/map.htm 3. As shown by the map in the above link, immediately north of Hermann Park is the Museum of Fine Arts, which includes the Glassell School of Art; "Fortress north / Cold as glass" (Ok, a reach.  No reason to call it a "fortress," and I wonder if some kind of "ice" is implied by these lines). 4. The website for the Museum of Natural Science, close to Hermann Park, notes that this museum has a huge granite globe revolving in a fountain.  Picture 8 includes a large globe on top of one of the columns.  Also, someone mentioned what looks like the number 95 in the tree, and the museum district map link shows that highway 59 runs through (OK, probably another attempt to force the clues to fit). --Johann

on the museum website (101 things to do) I noticed two things: there are statues in the park of animals.  animals!! perhaps a rhino and a camel. there is a snow cone machine near the miniature trains.  snow (cones) falls gently?? johann, I have been to the museums many times. yes, there is a big granite ball there similar to the one in the picture 8.  all the museums there are huge glass buildings. there is big church just north of the park.  it is an old style cathedral type church. It looks like a fortress, with parapets and towers. this is what I found in the tree on pic 8: In the tree, on the left side, there looks like a number 8.  In the tree, there is clearly a 95.  in the right side, there looks like a 9 and maybe a 6 (96) or 9E.  at the top of the tree, there is a space that looks like an N or S or Z or 2.  Or maybe I am just seeing things. boy is this fun.  If this is wrong I am going to be so sad. wilhouse

Aaaaaarrrrrggg. (expression of excitement, yet wise patience)  Somebody get this thing! --Johann

Well, I spent about 4 hours in the park today. Very tiring looking for treasure. I am sorry to say I have nothing definite to report.  I took a bunch of pictures, and will pull them onto my computer this week and figure out a way to post them. I can not definitely say what fortress north or friendship south means.  there are buildings north of the park that look like fortresses.  There is a Friendswood Texas south of the Park, hxxp://www.apartmentsclearlakegalveston ... dswood.htm , that was started in 1895 (note the 8, and 95 in pic , but I have no idea if that is related to the Friendship south line. When you start out at the train 982, you go south to go into the zoo.  North is a "Forresty" area, certainly a woods no lion would fear.  If you go through the woods, you pass a fountain, and then you get to the miniature train tracks.  If you step across them, you are right in front of the Sam Houston statue.  Around the statue are four trees, alike.  The statue is in the center of the four trees.  From the statue, you see another fountain (Meecom fountain) right behind it.  From the statue, as the miniature train passed by it sounded it's whistle.  At the complete other end of the park is a statue of Hermann.  I did not do a complete survey of that area, so perhaps that is for another week. I am not sure you could see the fountain from there though. I have no idea what the small, split, 3 winged and slight means. However, I was not able to get to the statue.  It was roped off.  It is under construction (adding sidewalks and such) and won't be open till April.  If there is something Small, split, three winged and slight up there I could not see it from below.  Frankly, if the treasure is up by the monument, I do not see how to get to it.  You would be stopped before you could dig more than 5 minutes. In the zoo were camels and rhinos.  If you look at pic 8, the way the layout of the animals are is very similar to the park: the east side of the park houses the rhinos, while the west side of the park houses the camels.  At the west entrance, the drivers lane is boarded by huge concrete spheres, at about the same relationship as in pic 8. I notice in the back of pic 8, there are 4 posts. Perhaps these are representations of the 4 alike.  If so, their relative position to the park is right for the statue of Sam Houston and the 4 trees. I did not see a fountain which would be where the water sprite is, but I did not spend that much time in that direction. I do not know what the December reference is to either, but there is a snow cone vendor that works right by the 982 train. Any suggestions would be welcome, including a place to post a bunch of digital pictures. wilhouse

I still like the arrow for three winged... oh well! here is an interesting reference to a plant (grows in Texas), uses the term "three-winged"? hxxp://www.nps.gov/bibe/teachers/factsheets/plants.htm Sotol Sotol, Dasylirion species, is composed of a cluster of numerous linear, flattened leaves that have hooked teeth along the margins of the leaf. The leaf bases are spoon-like. A tall flower stalk is produced each spring that has light colored, nondescript flowers clustered together. The fruit is three- winged and triangular. Twenty species occur in southwestern U.S. and Northern Mexico. Sotol was an important source of materials for basket making. The young flower stalks were eaten, as were the seeds. The heart of the plant was cooked along with agave hearts in a stone-lined pit for several days and then eaten. The stalks were used to make temporary shelters, porches, roofs, corrals and walking sticks. When the sap is fermented it produces the alcoholic beverage also called sotol.

oops! here's a pic of the plant hxxp://helios.bto.ed.ac.uk/bto/desertecology/sotol.htm

Hats off to Willhouse!  You surely did have much "definite" to report.  Now we have a much more clear visualization of the scenario.  That is the nitty-gritty of this hunt.  What it comes down to is such on-site exploration, and I firmly believe that multiple recon visits are going to prove necessary.  First, we had ideas and internet-"telescopes" from an internet-edited distance.  Now we have been there virtually, and physically in Willhouse's case.  "Every time that wheel turns round, you're bound to cover just a little more ground," as said by Robert Hunter and Jerry Garcia. --Johann

Thanks Johann, I needed a nice word after a long day. Most of the fountains were off when I was there. they are doing lots of construction and my biggest fear is that they have destroyed the box or buried it under concrete. I noticed in one of the descriptions that they called the Meecom fountain a 3 tiered fountain.  it looks like a V, with the big fountain in the middle and a smaller one to each side and behind. Is it possible that that is 3 wings (tiers)?  If the phrase is: In the center of four alike, Small, split, Three winged and slight, could this be referring to 4 fountains?  If so, there is a very old, very small fountain in the plaza next to Meecom.  That could be small.  I don't know what split and slight are, but if the fountains were all on, maybe I could tell.  I still wouldn't know where to dig though. It feels like it's so close. wilhouse

Can I just say that I picked a lousy week to get sick and not check the board? You guys rock--I think you've gotta be on the right track. No train pun intended. Did I help at all?

Dan, yes, but you would help more if you could help me find a place to put all these pictures I took. any suggestions? wilhouse

Hehehe...I think all I get credit for doing is bumping the topic after a few months of inactivity.  :) For storage space, there's always Geocities, but it's a little unreliable. AOL is pretty good for this kind of stuff (20 MB of space) but if you don't already have an AOL account, don't bother. If you don't mind sending people to another site, Yahoo Groups are free and have a good chunk of storage, as well as a Photo and File gallery. If you upload 'em as Files, they will remain the original size; if you upload 'em as Photos, Yahoo automatically resizes them down to about 400x300, which may or may not be want you want, depending on how much detail you need to show.

Ok, I have posted the pictures from my sojourn into Hermann Park. Thanks Dan for the suggestion. Here is the link, you might have to sign up for the group. wilhouse hxxp://groups.yahoo.com/group/armchair_ ... rmannPark/

Unknown: Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Good pics Wilhouse, could be referencing a reflection off water, kind of like you pic #70?? Just a thought.

that pond wasn't there in 82. It's new.  But there is a fountain right by the memorial.

I only started looking into this a few days ago so might have missed people already posting. Ive went though verse 1 and tried to find what the clues in the verse are leading to.d  things I found intresting. Firstly thanks to catherwood we have 920 being the train. Next lines are Through the wood No lion fears. In 1937 there was a Central Lions Club that was going to build a bronze figure of George H. Hermann in the park.  ( hxxp://www.georgekessler.org/html/kessl ... depression ) At the same site it mentions the Pioneer Memorial Shaft which is a 50-foot high granite obelisk, the Pioneer Memorial Shaft which is south of the south end of the reflecting basin. Could the obelsik be that stone thing on the right side of image 8? We also have the lines "In the sky the water veers",  "In the center of four alike" "There's the spout!" Which could be all about the 4 fountains.there is a picture of one of those fountains for kids at hxxp://www.hermannpark.org/heartofpark.htm I think this has jsut een built so not to do with the puzzle but the recelftion pool been there for about 60 years so they may just be addion to this fountain. My yahoo account is not working so cant check the egroup for pics so tried to find some online. hxxp://jodyfiles.tripod.com/wedding.htmlIs pictures from a wedding at the park and the second photo has a fountain in background. hxxp://www.stockyard.com/photos/SA2021.htmSeems to be a picture of Hermann Park Entrance with a fountain. As for the image, someone posted hxxp://www.ci.houston.tx.us/departme/pa ... tory3.html and if you look at the bottom there is a picture of limestone columns which had been moved to the Mecom-Rockwell Fountain, Another picture of them is at hxxp://www.stockyard.com/photos/SA2071.htm In fact if you go to hxxp://www.stockyard.com/setParksHermann.htm you can click though all the differet pics of the park. Could these columns be the ones from the image? Furthmore the image has so much granite that I was looking for something around that. There is a Sam Houston monument with a granite base. I tihnk there is more than one but this one been the for about 75 years and is pointing. Would be nice ot know what he is pointing at. hxxp://www.stp.uh.edu/vol61/162/News/news2/news2.html Also there is another map of the park. This time on a larger scale. It does mark where most of the landmarks are where the train goes so perhaps it helps us get a better picture of where everything is. hxxp://www.hermannpark.org/assets/image ... rk_Map.pdf Hope some of this is a help.

some responses to Geist (welcome aboard, glad to have a new set of eyes). Nice catch on the Lions club.  Yes there is a statue of Hermann on the other side of the park. I didn't go there, but that's my next trip. The train is 982, not 920. There is a pioneer memorial, and if you can get into yahoo, there's a pic of it in the group.  It is an obelisk, square till you get to the top, where it's pointed.  No real similarity to the pic. I am starting to believe the 4 alike might be fountains.  You need something that is unmovable.  There are many fountains, so I have to figure out which ones they are referring to.  How you find the middle I don't know.  If you pick the right 4, the middle could be the SH Monument.  The fountains behind the married couple in the link you posted is the Meecom fountains.  there's 3 of them. they are in the link you posted of the park entrance. your next link shows the fountain with the columns, but right in the middle is a very old fountain at the cancer center.  If there was 1 more fountain nearby, it could be the 4 alike.  3 winged and small. dont know about split or spare. By the way, Sam is pointing towards San Jacinto State Park(across the city) which is the site of the famous battle between Sam Houston and Santa Anna (a little Texas history for you). the pdf file you posted is the one I have from the park and gives a clear view of the train route.

I also posted a detailed map of the zoo at the same yahoo group. hxxp://groups.yahoo.com/group/armchair_ ... rmannPark/ wilhouse

i saw this on a website about Hermann Park, "Stand at the dock of McGovern Lake plaza and get sprayed by the geyser. " That might be the spout or the water that veers in the sky. I'm also from Houston and checked out the 982 train recently but couldn't find anything else around it resembling the verse. This is going to be a tough one to crack because there have been many improvements and new constructions made to the park in the last 10 years. If i had to guess i'd say its somewhere between McGovern Lake and the Japanese Garden, but i think i read they expanded McGovern Lake fairly recently. If only i had known about this book when i moved to Houston in '82!

Also, they just recently completed the moving of the miniature railroad tracks.  "Step across" might refer to stepping over the track, but who knows where it used to go.

Unknown: i saw this on a website about Hermann Park, This is going to be a tough one to crack because there have been many improvements and new constructions made to the park in the last 10 years. Is there anyone at the park who can tell you what's been changed?  Maybe they have copies of old maps.  Maybe you know someone who hung out there a lot back then.

nice find on the "spout" Soonerfan.  Now, where is the "whistle"?

ah, Fox, the whistle is easy.  The dock he is talking about is right next to the miniature train station.  The train, when leaving and approaching the station, whistles.

ah, thanks wilhouse.  ok Cat, I guess it is now time to swallow my pride and concur with you about this V being in Houston and not the great SW which I convinced myself about.  Now, which P will we be matching this V with....and also, when you get the time....help me find another V that I can apply to my Lion P  (I am still convinced  :P hehehe).

Fox, many of us believe that P8 is the matching one. Note the animal heads (zoo, next to train), geyser, and potential train tracks on the rocks. wilhouse

ah P8, that sounds logical.  I have always had that P possibly going to Pheonix AZ.  I do like the things you have pointed out though.  Must start looking for other confirmers.  Thanks for updating me.

if we now have three potential v's matching p's, we should perhaps be getting closer to matching more of them

Poking around I found that in the Houston Garden Center in Hermann Park there is a Friendship Pavillion.  To the north and west is the Glassell school of art: "Fortress north, cold as glass Friendship south" wilhouse

Man, it's amazing...it MUST be there, it's just taunting us now...

I'm going to try to obtain a map of the park and/or the zoo circa 1982. I think i read the zoo had free admission until the late 80's so it might actually be within the zoo. If i cant find any maps from that era to help navigate with the clues, plan B is to search every square foot of the park and surrounding area for 4 of something small, split, and slight with 3 wings.

I went into the zoo itself looking. I went primarily looking for a column with a camel, since the column with the rhino is right in front. I never found one. I spent two hours in that zoo looking for four of the same of anything.  I welcome your help soonerfan.  I also spent over 4 hours in the park itself looking for the same.  No luck. I could not even find replicas of the pillars - note that they are all different unlike Egbert's pillars. I wish this clue had more details, but oh well.  In the center of 4 the same is going to be hard to find.  there have been so many changes to the park in 20 years, we might never find it.  if 4 the same refers to plants or trees or something that grows, we are finished. the picture 8 shows four pillars or posts in the background. I don't know if that's relevent or not. if you get a map from the 80's could you scan it and post it? now here's a question: is it in the middle of 4 things that ALL are Small, split, Three winged and slight, or are each of the 4 things one of those (ie., one is small, one split, one 3 winged, one slight)? wilhouse

Unknown: now here's a question: is it in the middle of 4 things that ALL are Small, split, Three winged and slight, or are each of the 4 things one of those (ie., one is small, one split, one 3 winged, one slight)? wilhouse Okay, remember the lines in the Chicago poem: "Fence and Fixture/Central too"?  I thought that meant "Fence and fixture are also central clues", but  i later discovered that there's a Central Ave (or Street or Blvd) near Grant Park.  It seems to be another place clue. Anyway, maybe "Small" is a street or road which is split. And I would look for three statues or sculpture of fairies: slight of build, and with wings on their backs.

why three statues and not four? wilhouse

I'm off for Herman Park. It's a glorious day in Houston. I'll post any pictures I take later. wilhouse as a post script - no luck.  I was there for 4 hours and could not find any columns that resemble the ones in the book. I could not find any 4 alike that made sense.  And for some reason, the Friendship Pavillion, which is supposed to be in the park, is no where to be found. No one who works there has even heard of it. I have to think a bit and I'll post the shots I took.

I was able to get some aerial photos of Hermann park (not in very much detail though) from the mid 80's and a design drawing from the early 70's. I don't have a scanner but i'll try to find one or pull the current online map into paint and edit it so i can post it. The noticeable differences are the shape of the lake, the route of the miniature train, and the area between the lake and the zoo. There seemed to be a road that ran in between the lake and zoo in 1972 but by 1984 it was closed off and replaced with the pavillion that is there now. Also, i think i can see where the 982 train is in the 1972 drawing. Its not labeled, but there is a long rectangle representing something south of the lake and a little to the east (it also fits the description of the 982 train being 90 degrees and 100 feet closer to the park).

Does you map show the area on Main st north of the 3 fountains and the 3 fountains (Meecham?)? what did all that look like? also, the sam houston monument (now it is so bare even the 4 trees surrounding the monument are gone). finally, how about the Houston garden center area, across from the science museum? according to the net, there was a friendship pavillion there, but now no one seems to know anything about it. feel free to email it if you can. wilhouse

some ruminations from a frustrated treasure hunter: what if center of four alike meant the Center of XXXX, like Center of Health, medicine, science and life (I just made that up).  Or what if it means center of 4 museums or 4 churches. The concensus at my house is that three winged means three things with wings, not things with three wings (three winged, not three-winged).  If so, that means that in the center of 4 alike there will be three things with wings that are small, split and slight (all or one each?). What things have wings?: birds, planes, insects, angels, hotels (hotel wings?), dragons, pixies, fairies, libraries, arrows... Is there another connection with the "strongest tower of delight"?  There's no pierre st. or melville place in Houston. wilhouse

a few thoughts/speculation.. The state motto of Texas is friendship. Might be what the 3rd line references. The small of scale have to be the miniature rr tracks, so from 982 we have to go across the tracks. It doesn't give any detail about a fence or path or street to follow so i would think we'd be able to spot the 4 alike/3 winged pretty soon after crossing the tracks, the center of which is where the treasure is buried. That leads me to believe the 4 or 3 (or both) aren't spaced out that far (maybe surrounding an area of the same size where the treasure was buried in Cleveland) or it would be hard to find the center. It also leads me to believe that the treasure is buried on the east side of the lake between the lake and the parking lot (because that would have been the nearest tracks to cross). With the shape of the lake and previous route of the railroad tracks there was about twice as much ground going east to west in between that area of the tracks. Today you couldn't bury anything in that area without being noticed but there may have been more trees in that area as well in 1982. From the last time i was in the park I don't recall seeing anything there remotely resembling the 4 alike/3 winged but i still believe its in that area. This one might require a metal detector (if it can even be detected by one).

I was really hoping that Fortress North and Friendship south would bound the search area, rather than point to Texas. Who knows?  Check out this picture of the Friendship plaque at the Park (image 39 or 40) hxxp://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/armchair_treasure_hunting/files/HermannPark/ If we can find some old maps of the park it might tell us about the Friendship Pavillion. You are right Soonerfan that there is absolutely nothing in the area you described below that fits the verse. If we use the part of the verse about "Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! A whistle sounds." that essentially bounds us around the park. I don't know how many of the existing buildings were there in 1982, but you can't go too far or else you'd lose sight of the fountain. wilhouse

Soonerfan, does the rr track go around the zoo in your old picture? could the verse mean to go through the zoo (wood no lion fears), then go south?? are there any fountains in that direction? if you can't scan it, email me and I'll give you my address and I'll scan it and post it and send it back. wilhouse

I managed to get a poorly done but fairly accurate picture of the changes in the park from 1972 vs. present day. hxxp://www.flayle.com/Secret.html The aerial views i had were from 1984/5 and its hard to know if the moving of the 982 train and miniature tracks happened before or after the cask was buried so the 72 design plan was the best layout i had. -The blue outline represents the lake boundary in 1972 -The yellow line is the miniature railroad tracks (with the shaded yellow being what i believe was the station) -The shaded red is what i believe to be the 982 train (it wasn't labeled in the design) -The white is roads/parking lot that were there in 1972 -The green is shown as forest/tree areas -The pink are clearings (i don't know if they were paved or not) -The 4 shaded in green figures are the only thing close to something looking 4 alike from the design. Although they may not look from my rendition, they are pretty evenly spaced out in the shape of a diamond and roughly the same size (I think they were trees). The area to the north has not drastically changed. The reflection pool has been lengthened and a there are a few minor changes to the roads but i not much else as I could tell. No traces of a friendship pavillion. Wilhouse - Where did you read about the friendship pavillion?

hxxp://www.houstontravelguide.com/conse ... nter.shtml

hxxp://www.austinchronicle.com/issues/d ... trips.html "The Houston Garden Center adjacent to the Natural Science Museum offers a different, but no less beautiful, floral environment. Within its confines are 90 varieties of roses, a Bulb Garden, Fragrant Garden, Perennial Garden, Friendship Pavilion , and the International Sculpture Garden. More than a tree museum, the garden center is a journey of sight, smell, and touch." We're looking at "friendship" as being a bounding element, so it is not necessarily near the treasure.  Judging from this map (link below) the Garden Center is a rather small part of Hermann Park -- the Pavillion may be nothing more than a gazebo. hxxp://www.houstonchoralshowcase.org/Ga ... terMap.jpg

"In the center of four alike" As quoted from Cat's link about the park: "Begin any visit to Hermann Park at the entrance off the traffic circle that combines Main, Fannin, Montrose, and Hermann streets. "     could these be our 4 alike?

Here is the first part off of wilhouse's link: "Bulb Garden (our orb?), a Fragrant Garden, a Perennial Garden, a Camellia Garden (camel?), a Friendship Pavilion (friendship south) and the International Sculpture Garden.

hmmmm, looks like plants/flowers are my thing all of a sudden.  When doing a google search for ("three winged" split slight) I got this: ----------------------------------------------------- The Families of Flowering Plants - Trigoniaceae Endl. ... Free hypanthium present (slight), or absent ... long or short staminal tube split posticously); 1 ... capsule (usually), or a samara (three winged, in Humbertiodendron ... biodiversity.uno.edu/delta/angio/www/trigonia.htm - 7k - Cached - Similar pages -------------------------------------------------------- this entry came 2nd in finds after The Secret let us look to yet another garden.......

Unknown: -The 4 shaded in green figures are the only thing close to something looking 4 alike from the design. Although they may not look from my rendition, they are pretty evenly spaced out in the shape of a diamond and roughly the same size (I think they were trees). SoonerFan, if those trees were the 4 alike, then the treasure is under the train, where it is now. But that wouldn't follow the part regarding "through the wood no lion fears". check out image 58 that I posted for a potential "fortress north, cold as glass.  It would be almost directly north of the Houston Garden Center where the Friendship Pavilion was located. hxxp://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/arm ... k/wilhouse

I found a topo drawing from 1982 of Hermann Park.  The link says 1990, but when you click on it, you get July 1982. If no one has used the terraserver, it gives you free arial views or topos (if available), from different years. hxxp://terraserver.microsoft.com/addres ... 1500+Herma nn+Dr%2c+Houston%2c+TX+77004 Soonerfan, what does the lake look like to you? wilhouse

Fenix, I have to admit, I have had thoughts that center of four alike could be Center, such as the medical center. I drove over there last week with that in mind but had two problems:  1) it's so much in construction that who knows how it compares to 1982, and 2) we still need to find small, split and slight, even if we assume three hospitals have wings, which of course they do. do you like my camel lake idea? I'm not sure where it gets me though. still thinking about it. wilhouse

I want to throw something out just to see what people's thoughts are. While I do agree that Image 8 should be Houston mostly because of the lat/long, I still have some minor doubts about verse 1, simply because I can not find any part of it in Hermann Park, the only zoo in houston. Ok, try this.  Our 982 train, which, yes is in Hermann park, was once part of the Texas and New Orleans railroad.  Right now we think that Image 7 is NO, but we have no verse. Note that there is a place called Hermann-Grima house in the french quarter hxxp://www.neworleansonline.com/tours-a ... grima.html There is also a Friendship, La in southern La. In the city park that Fox talked about, there are miniature trains and fountains. I know this is a wrench, but I want to make sure all our eyes are open on things we don't know. wilhouse

hey wilhouse, It is a good thing to not get stuck in a rut with an idea (take it from an expert...4Corners, what was I thinking?  ::) ) but, I think that more than just the 982 fits. Fortress north Cold as glass ..................Glassell School of Art Friendship south ...................Friendship Pavillion Take your task To the number Nine eight two ................... our infamous engine # 982 --------------------------------------------- Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight .......... not yet deciphered --------------------------------------------- What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight ............. Quote from Pierre by Herman Melville Falls gently In December night ............ not sure but it could be referencing the continuation of the above quote: "only stands at the caprice of the minutest event-the fallling of a leaf." Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! A whistle sounds. .....................is debateable. So you see, there are quite a few solid confirmers here...especially the quote by HERMAN & the 982.  I think we have this V pegged.  If anything, I am still kind of leary with the P.

veering water?  could this be it? hxxp://www.sixflags.com/parks/astroworl ... water.html It is only 4.2 miles from Hermann Park but whether you could see it or not.....?...who knows.  The Astrodome may be blocking it.  But what better place to have water veering in the sky than on giant waterslides?

you definately can't see any part of astroworld from Hermann Park.  There are plenty of big fountains in the park that fit it. Funny how I thinkt he pic is more solid - the 30 / 95 in the pic, the placement of the camel and rhino matching the placement in the zoo; the cross hatched line at the bottom matches the cross hatching on the zoo map that gives the route of the miniature train. we'll keep forging ahead. wilhouse

Could "through the wood no lion fears" mean go through the zoo? wilhouse

lets put this one in the "plan b" kinda realm....but to me....and remember this is my first week here....that "fortress north cold as glass, friendship south take your task".. looks like the fortress may be fort sumter....the home-plate shaped fort in image 2.....and if you go north from there, you'll be "cold"....so take your task south.....south from ft sumter...... Now looking at aerial photos from the place.....dosent seem too very likely....but i thought id throw a plan b for ya to think about if you burn out on houston..... your treasure guy from indiana

we do have confirmation that one treasure is in Houston. wilhouse

Water can veer in the sky by way of a watertower. --Johann

or a waterfall?

What might we be looking for when it is both "small" and "slight," the latter meaning something insignificant, barely perceptible or slender (as a verb meaning to neglect in speech or action as if insignificant, to raze a fortification; or as a noun to be a marked piece of neglect, a failure to show due respect).  --Oxford Concise Eng. Dict. Considering the tricky punctuation (or lack thereof) throughout all of the verses, we may be incorrectly (or correctly) assuming that there is a full stop at "Perspective should not be lost," then a connecting flow from "In the center of four alike" to "Three winged and slight," after which is a full stop. In short, we should closely examine the words and rethink the syntax with which we are working at present. Of course, perhaps we are correct already and the above commentary is unnecessary. --Johann

I'm with you johann.  I think I may have posted something similar some time ago about how each of us are reading these V's.  As they are written (or is it how we read them) there seems to be an apparent flow & we tend to assume that such-n-such line/s goes with such-n-such....  this V in particular. as an example:  are we even sure the cowardly lion is thru the woods? ... or ... Are we first to go thru the woods....then No lion fears In the sky the water veers.  These lines can be combined so many different ways to find different meanings. A lion in the sky?  hmm, odd.

I'm thinking the same as you. I've been trying to repunctuate the verse to have it mean something else. example: Through the wood (note NOT woods). No lion fears (meaning, you have no fears of a lion, meaning there is no lion.) just throwing stuff out. wilhouse

I think you have a good idea. for instance I was working with verse 7 and its something like Travels north but first across and I was traveling north across the park but first before I got across I ran into a large cross I think it actually reads: travel north but first a cross,

Unknown: " on June 3rd, 2004, 10:57pm, fox wrote: Ok, using this appx distance from Preservation Hall, you come to Jackson Square. www.civilwaralbum.com/louisiana/neworleans.htm " probably completely random, and flying in the face of all the work done on P8/V1, but the statue in the upper left image (the Grand Army of the Republic Memorial at Chalmette Cemetery) seems to have three things slight (and winged?) in the center of 4 alike (cannons) just posted this to the image 7 thread - again, not to be taken too seriously but maybe as an example of 3 things inside of 4, it's useful

As long as we are open to wild ideas, I've had this one floating around in my head for a long time: "Through the wood No lion fears" first made me think of Hollywood and the MGM lion. --Johann

Good point.  Along the same lines: The Wizard of Oz.  Didn’t the lion seek courage?  Didn’t the bunch of them travel through woods (of sorts?) ?  What woods wouldn’t be scary to a lion who has no Courage?

a zoo, where all the animals are caged, so there is nothing to fear. wilhouse

great work. thank you for the pictures.  :)

I am going to post this under V1, though I could easily post it under P8, and perhaps I will make a note on it there. Today, we took our second trip to the Hermann Park Zoo.  This post will summarize both visits.  We met the Zoo Director, an extremely nice fellow who finds our quest amazing and amusing. A general link to the files of the pictures I took is here:  hxxp://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/armchair_treasure_hunting/files/Hermann%20Park%20Zoo/ I wanted to rule out the zoo as a possible site.  First I was given a 1975 map of the zoo that the Director says was about the same in 1982.  The map is called Map1975.jpg in the link above.  If the camels and rhinos were, in 1982, where they are in 1975, they are in the same perspective as in P8. I worked on an interpretation of this verse that would fit the zoo: "small of scale, step across" could mean enter into the Children's Zoo, which is located at the south end of the zoo. "In the center of 4 alike" - if you look at the map, in the children's zoo, there are 4 compounds, North (F) and South (H) America, Africa (A) and Asia (B). The SA compoud had 3 pictures of birds on it, pictures 50 and 51.  There was a statue of an elf at the location directly north of the big round circle near the south entrance (the auditorium), which was a fountain (see pictures 44 and 49).  It was filled in later but in 1982 it was all water.  The fountain was relocated to the central water way in the late 80's. In the center of the 4 compounds was a circular area, with two dirt holes, and 3 locations where large boulders are / were (picture forty eight). I was allowed to dig in the circle.  I dug about 2 feet deep and hit a thick layer of pebbles, probably backfill.  I was not able to dig through the pebbles with the small hand shovel I had. Picture 30. 35 and 37 show a column I found in the children's zoo.  I tried to post a smaller image here, but for some reason the yahoo groups server won't display it. If someone can get it displayed feel free to post it (image "39small") The children's zoo is closed off and is slated to be demolished. The Director has been kind and allowed me to search in it, but I have to be accompanied.  I can probably convince him to let me in again, but I'll have to have a good reason. In 1982, the zoo was free and open till 8pm.  There were exits on both sides of the zoo, so you could go in the south entrance and no one would see you. I thought this was a good place to check because: 1) the small of scale worked here, 2) there is a water tunnel in which you look at fish underground and the fish are in tanks all around you, including above you 3) the 4 alike could be the compounds, 4) the spout could be the elf fountain 5) there is an asia compound, and P8 has an Arabian theme. Please take a look at the map and photos and let me know if you have any other ideas.  I am just plum out of them. wilhouse

wow, wilhouse.  those are all great ideas and seem to fit the V to a T  ::) .  I cant seem to access your pictures though.  One time it tells me I am a member of the group, then it says I'm not.  I try to re-join the group but it wont let me. I sure would love to see those pictures.

Fox, et al. I have created an album with all the pictures I took. The files names are the same and I added some descriptions. I don't think you'll have to get an ID here, it's the same place Egbert posted his pictures. hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js ... mbdmzaNnIQ wilhouse

that did the trick, thanks wilhouse.  looking thru the photos as I type.  One thing thought of....the column at the NA exhibit looks like a pretty good match,,,in one of the pix you had looking thru the entrance, I noticed a pathway with a wooden fence.  Does this path curve?  if so, could the tic-marks in the P (thought to be rr tracks) be the fence? how many of the "bird cutouts" where there around the center of the 4 compounds?  3...?....I hope.  Hoping that was our 3 winged.  The circle pic you had of the center of the compounds, it looked almost like there once were trees there.  Is there anywhere within the circle that you could dig? Last but not least (for now atleast) how far away from the "center of the 4 compounds" is our trusty #982? keep up the good work folks, I smell a Houston casque about ready to be found  8)

Fox, answers: Yes, the pathway through NA curves. The tick marks could be the fence, or they could signify the pathway itself.  It is really in disrepair, as it has been closed since 2000. When you stand in the center of the 4 compounds, on the circular spot, to the west you can see 3 bird cutouts.  There are more when you go around each compound, I never counted them all, but you can only see 3 from the center area. The circular object is a mystery.  Sorry about the shade - I didn't realize you can't see it all.  If you stand on the north side of the object, looking directly south toward the auditorium, that's how the photo is oriented.  Directly south is the Elf Fountain ("there's the spout"?).  Looking down on the circular object, there are 6 dirt areas roughly circular, including the one under the rock.  The two nearest the "bottom" in the photo are really not dirt areas. They are concrete with about 1" of dirt over it.  The same is true under the rock.  We are convinced that in the past, there were three large rocks there.  In the very center is a concrete pad. We don't know what was there.  To the left and right of the large rock at the "top" of the photo are circles of dirt.  I dug holes there about 2 feeet deep.  In each hole, at 2 feet deep, is a layer of pebble, thicker than I could dig through with my hand trowel. Since both holes had the same pebble layer at the same depth, I don't think those holes had been disturbed by someone putting treasure there. What we don't know is when that object was placed there. Perhaps the whole thing wasn't there in 1982. We are still researching In 1982, the 982 train was right in front of the zoo gate (there's a picture of the 1981 gate in the link). You can look on the 1975 map and get a good idea.  So if you start at the 982 train, and go directly south, through the zoo, to the children's zoo, it is probably between 1/4 to 1/2 mile. I'll be happy to answer any other questions. wilhouse

Fenix, your questions have hit to the very heart of my biggest dilemma in finding this cask. Right now there is nothing in the "roads" between the compounds, except the picture of the bricked in circle.  I went to the archives to try and get some pictures of the area, and I did get some, but not excatly what we are looking for.  Interesting, there was a camel in the childrens zoo during that period...named Wanda. I agree with you about the crosses, and I am trying to get some pictures of them to see where they really were. they are not now where they were then. I just don't know where to look.  We do not have anything else to go on for the quote by Herman Melville. I looked around for something called Pierre, or Melville, but nothing.  I really think it might just be a pointer to Herman. I will post some photos I took of some articles in the library tomorrow. Keep asking questions, Fenix, it's a big help.  The zoo Director said if I can give him a rational reason to dig in a certain specific area, he will let me, but he's not gonna just let me or anyone come in and dig up his zoo.  We have to make our shot a good one!! I also believe there is something in Pic 8 we are missing that would help. I like your idea of the star representing the 4 compounds. wilhouse

Wow, that gives me something to look for. I'll check some of the old pics I have, I don't remember seeing anything that looks like that. I could easily be dead by now - the park has been closed since 2000 and is in disrepair. I agree that part has always bugged me about the verse.  Mrs. Wilhouse says that it stand for the snow cone carts that are all around the park. wilhouse

My brother, several times a resdient of Houston (especially the suburb of Kingswood), told me that Houstan has the tallest building west of the Mississippi.  Is it near the location? --Johann

no, it is downtown, a good 5 miles away, maybe more. wilhouse

Fenix, I sent the question to the zoo director. Also, last week I went to the Houston library to look up old newspaper clippings of the zoo and park. I placed the photos in the following shutterfly link: hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js ... mbdmzaNnRw Note a few things - good maps of the zoo, Wanda the camel in the children's zoo circa 1982, some good photos of zoo from 70's and 80's. unfortunately, nothing concrete. wilhouse

Fenix, that was a home run.  There was a llama born around 1980 in the children's zoo and of course it was named Snowflake. spooky, huh? wilhouse

I want to post my current thoughts on the verse both to get them down, and in the hopes it might spark a conversation on what the unknown parts might be: Fortress north -both the gorilla house and aquarium are north of the children's zoo and are fortress-like Cold as glass - could be cold, like you're cold so go south, or the aquarium is made of glass Friendship south - Friendship woods, garden, lantern, lots of friendships in the south end of the children's zoo Take your task To the number Nine eight two - train Through the wood No lion fears - through the zoo, past the lions? In the sky the water veers - the fountain in the lake, which is 30' high, or the aqua tunnel in the CZ, which has water going over your head Small of scale - the dwarf cattle or goats Step across - go over the bridge Perspective should not be lost - you're now in the middle of the CZ, which looks like a zoo in miniature In the center of four alike - you're now in the center of the 4 petting zoos Small, split, - ?? could be dwarf animals for small, ?? Three winged and slight - two hawks in the NA compound, one with a missing wing??slight?? What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight - Herman (Melville) and Pierre, the llama in the CZ Falls gently In December night - Snowflake, the llama, from Pierre Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! - Brownie the Elf fountain, or return line in the aqua tunnel (spout is a pipe), or perhaps drinking fountains in the CZ A whistle sounds. - Nabisco cookie factory down the street had a whistle at noon and 5pm. also, trainers used whistles. and traffice cops outside zoo used them Now, matching this with P8 Columns with camel and rhino are the entrance columns in CZ to various areas.  Pole with globe looks like light poles with globe lights in CZ.  Hat on Djinn looks like hat on Brownie the Elf.  Berms in back are similar to berms near gorilla house, just north of CZ. 30 and 95 in tree is Lat/Long of Houston. Also potenial "zoo" spelled out in tree. Star in sky looks like layout of 4 petting compounds and walkways. Unknowns are poles in background, platform, raised bricks by camel, modern art looking piece (though that looks similar to gorilla house outline).  Possible partial Texas map on floor near Djinn. that's all I can think of.  I feel like I'm one clue away from figuring this out... wilhouse

Unknown: Take your task To the number Nine eight two - train [b]Through the wood could this be another instance where we are "reading" these lines how BP wants them read?  In reading, it seems only logical that "To the number" & "982" go together but what if they dont?  Is there another prominant number around somewhere?  Maybe we are to take our task to a different number (not 982) and go from there.  I have only seen limited pics of infamous eng 982....but, do the tracks it is sitting on extend out of site?....perhaps into a stand of trees?  Thinking just maybe "982" goes with "Through the wood" if the tracks extend. Just tossing out more thoughts.

Fox, keep tossing thoughts, they are welcome. The 982 train sits upon tracks.  That is the complete extent of the tracks.  They start and stop with the train. I will look for other numbers, as suggested. wilhouse

Fenix, you have a keen eye and again I find myself thinking as you do!! Ironically, my last trip to the zoo was with Mr. Donaho.  He is very interested and helpful.  He was surprised to see that picture of himself. John gave us the locations of all the globe lights.  The ones you see hanging down from the auditorium are hanging and not on poles.  There is also no dirt around these.  However, the light poles that the globes were on still exist, and on Monday I will be checking a few of them out.  There's only about 3 or 4 places in the CZ that have light/globe poles and dirt. We will systematically try them all. As to the fountain, I have thought the same thing.  There is very little south of the fountain, but enough so that eliminating it is great.  If the spout is the fountain, then that helps narrow down the area. However, there are two other possibilities for the spout.   One is the permanent drinking fountains in the CZ, which are still there. The other one that I like is the return pipe in the aqua tunnel pool.  You should be able to see it from the fountain area.  It is a pipe which returned clean water to the pool like a waterfall.  Note that one definition of spout is: "a tube, mouth, or pipe through which liquid is released or discharged" that fits the return pipe exactly. Two of the globe lights are by the nursery.  That is where Snowflake lived till he was moved.  I know that BP tried to use permanent features for clues, but I think a Pierre and Snowflake camel in the CZ is too coincidental for verse 1. Look at picture 65 in the digging in the zoo set: hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js ... mbdmzaNnqQ that shot is from standing in the center of the 4 compounds, in the circular area with bricks.  It is looking south. Note the bushes directly in the pathway in the little planter? That is where the Elf fountain was, in that planter.  Now look at picture 66. That is looking north from the elf fountain.  In the distance is where the pond is that the return pipe is located.  20 years ago, none of those bushes or big trees were there and you could easily see the spout from the elf fountain. I'll be digging up the elf fountain on Monday, if it's deep enough to hide the cask. Wish me luck!! wilhouse

Good luck wilhouse....bring us home another casque to be marked off of our list.

Good luck  :)

Wilhouse, Your picture 65 reminds me of the mound in the back of Image 8.  I think you're getting very close...

Wilhouse, Quick question--if you go to what you are calling the berms (mounds in the back of Image --what can you see in each direction?  Looking south you see the Children's Zoo--correct?  What do you see looking north?

I think you mean picture 64, and yes, I agree that these look like the berms in Pic 8. I will check with John Donaho. He told me once, but I don't remember. wilhouse

Here's the answer from John Donaho: The berms are directly north of the CZ.  The only thing between at that time was a small ditch that ran roughly west to east. I’d have to see a compass overlay, but directly north of the berms would have probably gone between the gorilla habitat and the rhinos.  Directly south of the berm is the CZ wilhouse

a quick glance and the confusion over the pix numbers I didn't get at all what you were talking about the berms... but now that I figured out which picture you mean yes it looks remarkably similar to the dunes. right down to the tree trunks in the foreground matching the poles in image 8.

By now y'all have figured out that I did not find the cask on Monday.  Doc Love and I dug out the elf fountain. Turns out it was only about 1 1/2 feet deep, but we turned over all the dirt anyways just to make sure. The zoo director let us take shots and scan some old pictures.  I have posted them here: hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js ... mbdmzaNnzw There are some interesting things to note: CZ002, 79 and 82 show the building with the globe lights. This is the only other building besides the auditorium with these lights.  74 and CZ001 show views of the elf fountain, one 1975 with water the other later with grass. 81 which is the same as 64 talked about above, is the most interesting. As noted elsewhere, these berms and trees fit VERY well the backdrop of picture 8. 88 and 89 are shots of the elf fountain in his current location, from the right side. The lighting wasn't great, but the hat still is a good match to the djinn hat in Pic 8. 90 and 91 show a flagpole and it's ball on top in the Africa compound.  The ball is smaller and not the best match to the globe in Pic 8, but who knows. I think if it is not in the center area that is bricked in, that it is most likely near a globe light, as shown in pic 8. wilhouse

Great old photos!

have you located the exact spot and orientation of the train as it was in 1982, where does that fit on the map. The hunts as I have seen them use the picture for locating the state, city and  general area. Then the verse takes you on a walk leading directly to the treasure. meaning each stanza of the verse takes you on a narrowing path culminating at an exact spot. Your task being to recognize the landmark each verse points at, without the exact starting spot it becomes impossible to narrow it down. So have you plotted your walk out on a map? noting each verse? Also The woods no lion fears, In the Wizard of Oz they feared the woods because of Lions and Tigers and Bears. So the wood no lions fears would not have lions and tigers and bears. Is this an direction along the path to turn away from the lions and tigers and bears?

Falcon, I like the wizard of oz too, but it was the lion that did the fearing.  "No lion fears" doesn't ring of the wiz to me...but I'll bite for this thread!! Egbert pointed out in his quest that the gem in the picture was right below the wall, about where he found it. This is a small zoo.  Also, in 22 years, it has undergone a lot of construction. Yes, I located exactly where the train was in 1982. It was essentially at the current entrance to the zoo. The lions and tigers are in the feline complex, north of the CZ, north of the gorilla house. the bears are close by.  Either the east or west road will bypass these animals.  Both roads take you to - the Children's zoo. Here's where it gets fuzzy. In the sky the water veers - if you start out in the CZ, the first thing you come to is the aqua tunnel.  Go DOWN in the tunnel, and overhead the water flows by (it surrounds you).  Go up the stairs and  you are either by the Africa exhibit (left fork) or between the Africa and Latin America exhibits (right fork). Small of scall, step across - If you took the left fork, you go by the dwarf goats, then over a small bridge. You are now in the center of the 4 compounds. If you took the right fork, you go by the dwarf cattle and go 1) right over the small bridge and you are next to the nursery or 2) left over the small bridge and you are between Africa and Asia. Perspective should not be lost In the center of 4 alike do these two go together as one sentence, or are they separate?  If you took the left fork above, you are in the center of the 4 compounds.  If you took the right fork, and went either right or left, then you are not in the center of anything that I can see.  The nursery was not called the Center, I asked. Small, split - lots of small things (small goats, cattle, donkeys, bridges, compounds, fences, small elf fountain straight ahead), no any split things that I can think of Three winged and slight - there were two hawks in the North America compound, one of which had a missing wing.  Slight? I have nightmares about this line. What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight - a llama named Pierre?  The llama pen is right next to the nursery, which is where the globe lights are Falls gently In December night - a llama named Snowflake? Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! - there is a spout in the aqua tunnel, and the elf fountain and drinking fountains all over the CZ A whistle sounds. ?? Ok, I am open to any more suggestions on how this leads me to the cask. wilhouse

Unknown: Also The woods no lion fears, In the Wizard of Oz they feared the woods because of Lions and Tigers and Bears. So the wood no lions fears would not have lions and tigers and bears. Is this an direction along the path to turn away from the lions and tigers and bears? How about the word "Courage"?  The lion in the Wizard of Oz did not fear anything once he had courage.  Is/Was there a section of the zoo relating to that word? Just my 2 cents --- at first I thought that there is no way that Byron Preiss would pick a "living" clue such as the llamas, since they could die or be moved.  However, the verse seems to point to "Pierre" and "Snowflake."  It's too much of a coincidence to be incorrect.  I think we're in the right spot.  We just have to figure out the 2nd half of the verse.

pretty sure after they picked up the cowardly lion they continued through the forest singing "lions and tigers and bears" even though the lion was already with them. Still it looks as though if you do turn away from the lions and tigers and bears it does take you to the center of 4 alike. Perpspective should not be lost. Perspective usually has to do with a horizon and a vanishing point. Converging lines and that sort of thing at this spot are/were there lines (sidewalks, curbs, fences) that would simulate a vanishing point to give you an arrow for your next direction.

In all the pictures I have seen, there are none taken from the center of the 4 compounds back in the 80's, so we can't yet see what Preiss saw then. However, picture yourself in the center of the 4 compounds. The entrances to them are all on the far side of the compounds, so you are on the "back" side". Facing south, you are looking down the path to the elf fountain. Turn around and face north, you are looking at the aqua tunnel, and the waterfall and "return spout". Looking south, the North and Latin America compounds are on your right, the NA one south, the LA one north.  The Africa and Asia compounds are to your left, Africa north, Asia south. There are bridges to your right and left. You are in the center of two roads, each one veering away so you can't see the end.  In effect, you could say that your perspective is "warped" because you are looking at all these small animals in small "continents". Perspective should not be lost In the center of four alike Could just mean that you are looking at a different perspective of the zoo (a smaller version).  As for paths, there are 4.  Discounting the way you came in, there would be three. I don't know where to go that would fulfill Small, split Three winged and slight. I did an anagram on the words last night but came up with nothing.  Did you ever notice that "small" is close to "llamas" minus an "a"? Egbert, I didn't notice any "courage" related things, but I will ask John Donaho. wilhouse

Fortress North Cold as Glass (or water even) another BP fountain Directly North of The Park, Zoo and Childrens zoo

This verse starts you at the northern most point of Hermann Park next you go south to the entrance to the zoo or the 982 train. Then past the lions and tigers and bears. you arrive at the childrens zoo Can we label this pix with all the pertinent landmarks? i.e where were the llamas, where is the water tunnel? notice the one section shaped like an elephant... not that its anything I just thought it was neat.

Falcon, I have a bunch of photos of the fountain posted. It is about 1/2 mile north of the zoo, the Meecom fountain.  You actually have to pass two other fountains to get there. Fenix, how can you be in the center of 4 different places? But surely they all had some winged animals.  If the center of four alike is not the center of the 4 compounds, I have no idea where it is. wilhouse

None of the compounds have towers in them. I have been thinking.  What if delight is a play on words: de-light, the light. Falls gently in december night. December, 12, noon, north.  North of a light?  There are only two globe lights near dirt, and only one with dirt north of the globe light. I'm going to dig there tomorrow. wilhouse

Cool Good luck I am going to go dig tomorrow too! Here is the picture you updated. So from the area you plan to dig, You can turn around and see the spout, right?

is that where the elf is now, or where the elf was in 1982?

Unknown: I have been thinking.  What if delight is a play on words: de-light, the light. That makes sense to me - BP did it in verse 7 With "first accross" if you are following the path Before you get to highway one you first come to A cross.

I marked on the map where the elf was in 1982. It is not in the CZ anymore. wilhouse

Then the trouble with the elf is he is not where you would look back from the treasure ground unless your path takes you past him he wouldn't be looking back his location would be forward. So that either means the spout is the aqua tunnel or your path is wrong.

Yes, but the problem is the path is not finished. It could take you by the fountain. I just don't know where to continue to. But I agree that the spout is more probably the return pipe from the aqua tunnel. I confirmed today that you could see it from any part of the CZ as long as you weren't behind a building. wilhouse

where were the llamas kept?

On Friday, Mrs. Wilhouse and I spent a few hours in the CZ. I dug up the area to the right of the right globe light, with no success. I really wanted to dig up the area to the left of the left globe light - image 8 shows the cask between the globe and the fountain, which would be to the left of the left globe. Unfortunately, in the late 80's they put in an ADA ramp and asphalted over the area.  Could it be there? Here are some pics I took of the zoo.  Note that the left globe light curiously came on while I was standing there. It was the only one that was lit. hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js ... mbdmzaNmED wilhouse

posted for Willhouse

hey wilhouse, you may want to drop BP an email describing why you believe a newly added ramp may be covering where you think a casque could be.  I think the masses have waited long enough in asking if their locations are correct and I'm sure BP would reasonably confirm or deny this locale.

Fox, I was just getting up the nerve to do so.  When I emailed him my solution under the bricks in the center of the 4 compounds, I got the response that he would be checking "the vault" in about a month and would let me know. I will email him today. thx for the pep talk. wilhouse

Although the book says the publisher would honor written solutions that were specific, Byron Preiss has told me in an e-mail that he will only respond to pictures of recovered casques. I wish you better luck.  Afterall, if it is under cement, it is unlikely that anyone is going to uncover it without great care or expense.

I hope that's really not true, because there is no way for me to get to the cask in the location I have identified.  Although, since the children'ts zoo is going to be demolished in 2007, I guess the worst case scenario is that it sits there until a bulldozer crushes it. He has not specifically told me that he would not answer my question, and I know that he doesn't like people asking him questions.  I will let you know if I find out anything. After 22 years, he has to recognize the fact that some casks are not going to be reachable, and he should stick to the rules of the game if someone has a credible solution. wilhouse

Well if nothing else with 3 yeas head start you should be able to arrange to be in there the day before the bulldozers and dig up anything you want.

Doing a lot of brainstorming, and looking at old pictures, the verse could be taking us essentially around the CZ.  If we keep going through the center area to the west side, and you look around, what you see is a pen for dwarf donkeys (small) a split pen for llamas, a pen for birds. No telling what slight is unless it's a real play on words and means light, which is there too.  If you look north, you look at the concession stand, which looks like a cylinder, or a tower. So, OK, what if the concession stand is the tower of delight?  We know the two lines "What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight" is a quote, so we can't take it completely in context.  What if the tower of delight is ALSO the tower of the (d) lights - the globe lights, as the concession stand had the globe lights. Ok, that takes you to the concession stand, where you can look "back" and see the spout of the aqua tunnel. So, what are some thoughts on the next line: "Falls gently In December night"?  We know that Preiss used the months sometimes to designate the tone of the verse, so what if it is just "falls gently in night"? or "falls gently in 12 night?" darkness, stars, snow (for december), the new year, fog, light, being awake any takers? wilhouse

I spent another 3 hours today digging in the zoo. I had some thoughts about trying to dig around the concession stand, the "tower of delight" that sells snow cones. There were several dirt area to dig, but the ground is hard as a rock and full of roots.  I tried using a poker and dug as well as I could, without success. It's time to take another approach and use technology to solve this problem.  More on that if what I want to do works out. Take a look at some shots here. hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeEMmbdmzaNmFH In the image 8 thread, I left a note about my opinion that the stitching in image 8 leading up to the djinn spout could be the steps leading to the spout in the zoo area.  It's the same number of steps / stitches. wilhouse

I have only cultural rememberances about the Llamas named Pierre and Snowflake. Some people remember them others don't. What I do have is a photo that I posted of the nursery with a llama in the pen next to it.  On the left side of the hatchery (building to the left of the nursery), there is a pen with a llama sign in front of it.  If you stand in front of the hatchery, to the left is a llama pen and to the right is a llama pen. You could say the llama pen is split.  To the left of the left llama pen is the dwarf (small?) donkey pen. Across from the llama pen was the North American pen where there were the birds (three winged?).  I think I posted the signs of the llama and donkey somewhere. As for small of scale being small fishes or such, that's entirely possible.  I'd still be in the CZ, which is where they are located, but perhaps take a different route once there. The question is, if the tower of delight is the concession stand, then any route I take should end me up there.  Does Fall gently in December night refer to the concession stand or something else?  If I can figure that out, it should point me to the spot the treasure is at. wilhouse

"tower of delight" would be ambiguous without the reference to snow(-cones) in the following lines.

Johann, I agree. But now that I am standing next to the concession stand, now what? wilhouse

Unknown: I spent another 3 hours today digging in the zoo. I had some thoughts about trying to dig around the concession stand, the "tower of delight" that sells snow cones. There were several dirt area to dig, but the ground is hard as a rock and full of roots.  I tried using a poker and dug as well as I could, without success. It's time to take another approach and use technology to solve this problem.  More on that if what I want to do works out. Take a look at some shots here. hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.jsp?i=EeEMmbdmzaNmFH In the image 8 thread, I left a note about my opinion that the stitching in image 8 leading up to the djinn spout could be the steps leading to the spout in the zoo area.  It's the same number of steps / stitches. wilhouse Egbert mentioned that there appeared to be a metal rod within his key. Perhaps a good metal detector will help your search? If metal detectors are allowed in the zoo. You may want to ask someone higher up in the management of the place to do a search in that area.

I have a very good metal detector and based on what egbert said was "in" the key a pot metal rod for stiffening. I would venture to say in ordinary ground you would be able to sense the key through about 1 foot of soil , meaning you would need to dig down about 2 feet before even trying to use the metal detector. If there is any mineralazation in the ground or trash (i.e poptops, foil, nails) it would be useless. Looking at how BP designed the casques - key in a clay casque in a Plexiglas box, I'm pretty sure he was trying to eliminate the possiblilty that somebody with a metal detector would accidentally find it.

Kro, I tend to agree with Falcon.  I could easily get a metal detector into the zoo (heck, I get in 2 shovels, a post hole digger, a crowbar, and two trowels, why not a metal detector?), but the ground is littered with water pipe and sewer mains.  If I could dig down two feet, I would dig down three. The ground is hard as rock and full of roots and it took me 3 hours to dig a foot. That's not to say I won't go back to try again. wilhouse

Some thoughts from one who has not been involved for very long.... First, congratulations to wilhouse for getting into the zoo and digging -- a major accomplishment all by itself. Second, the following may not be helpful, but occurred to me: 1.  The verbiage in the verse seems to imply that once you're "In the center of four alike", you're where you need to be.  Previous lines kept you moving ("Take...to...through...step...")  Now you're "In", and the directions can be interpreted as lacking further walking directions.  So, by this theory, once you're at the brick circle, you're pretty much done walking. 2.  Now you have to figure out which direction to face.  From wilhouse's pictures, there seems to be a sort-of crescent shaped dirt area between the intersection and the fence at each corner.  Three items on this one: a. First, "Perspective should not be lost / In the center..." might be telling us to use the perspective in the Image to determine the direction to face.  Some of the columns in the Image very definitely appear to be aligned when you look at it in perspective, and the line drawings over on page 9 of this thread have lots of unidentified dots in and about the fenced enclosures, some of which line up pretty nicely.  If they are of any substance, do any of their positions match the columns in the Image? b. Second, "Falls gently / In December night" seemed to me at first glance not about snow (you're in Houston), but the Nativity.  Look at the star in the Image.  Matthew 2:2 says "...We saw His star in the east..."  If you're standing in the center and the left edge of the image is E, then the remainder of the image is generally ESE, which is the Asia compound.  By this theory you should dig in the crescent of dirt between the crossing and the corner of the Asia fence. c. To be tricky though, the Magi might have meant "We saw his star {while we were in} the east", which would put the star of Bethlehem in the west.  That is the direction they travelled, after all.  Image star to west means LA corner instead of Asia, but I like Asia best -- it seems to fit the ordinary Nativity interpretation better and the image looks more Asian that American. 3.  From the Melville quote, "What we take to be / Our strongest tower of delight" might just mean "the casque".  That's roughly how Melville uses it, to refer to what you hold the most dear.  Maybe these lines don't refer to anything else at all (towers, snow cones, etc.) Happy Hunting.

Pine, you've given me reason to hope. I will test out your theory next week. I too have often wondered if there was more of a connection to the Asia exhibit. wilhouse

I think that you have a valid question, and I have talked about it with both the current zoo director and the 1980's children's zoo curator. The Children's Zoo (which we all call the CZ) is at the southern part of the houston zoo.  It has it's own entrance, and it, along with the whole zoo, was free in 1982. The CZ was not patrolled at night, and closed as late as 8pm.  It is right off the street.  Preiss could have easily thrown a shovel over the fence in the bushes, come around to the entrance, waited till dark, got the shovel and buried this thing without anyone being around, near or close to him. Plus, as we've seen, there was only lights around the buildings, and none in the center area.  So it'd be dark there. And actually, there was so much construction going on in the area, the curator thinks he could have walked right into the CZ with a shovel and not one person would have questioned him at all. No, the CZ curator absolutely believes it would have been easy to bury this in the CZ in 1980's without being seen. wilhouse

Does anything on site have an Arab connection? "The Ruby out of Araby: Scarlet of desert sky at dawn."

Johann, while nothing specifically is arab related per se, as we know Arabia (now known as Saudi Arabia) is considered part of Asia. Here's a description for those geography minded: "On the north, Asia is bounded by the Arctic Ocean; on the east, by the Pacific Ocean; on the south by the Indian Ocean, and on the West by Europe, the Black Sea, the Greek Archipelago, the Mediterranean, and the Red Sea. " There is an Asia compound, and a camel pen, see my drawing on page 9.  Camels are typically native to Asia and specifically to the mideast, though they are also in Africa. Here's an interesting tidbit on camels: "The Arabian camels (or Dromedary) have one hump" So I guess you could say the camel pen is considered Arabian. wilhouse

As promised elsewhere, I am posting the results of my recent zoo expedition, mostly for historical purposes. I was able, through appropriate begging, to procure the use of a ground penetrating radar unit (GPR) for the weekend.  The zoo is interested in finding some underground utilities. Y'all know what I am interested in. I just got back from a meeting with the owner of the unit who helped me interpret the findings.  Using the unit is fairly straightforward. Figuring out what it says is not. The bottom line is that there are several places, including the one place I have submitted as a solution to Preiss which is covered with concrete, that could hold the cask.  One other possible place is the one that pine tree suggested, by the Asia exhibit in the crescent shaped area near the center of the 4 exhibits. So what does this mean? I need to find a way to efficiently dig in the rock hard Houston soil.  I will be investigating that in the near future.  Also, I have to convince the zoo director to let us investigate under the concrete. More to come.  If anyone gets to the point that they think this might be helpful to them, let me know and I can give you a brain dump of  all I learned. wilhouse

Regarding the concrete patch, is it safe to assume that you will somehow dig down the edge of the concrete and then dig horizontally toward the casque (if it is there, of course)?  I assume that you have thought of every possible angle (OK, bad pun) but I am just curious.

Johann, it is much simpler than that, though to be honest, that is what we did on the south side of the patch. The zoo director has told me that if I can give him evidence that the cask might be under the patch, then he will let me use his bulldozer and remove the concrete. Unfortunately, the GPR data did not lend evidence that the cask is under there. wilhouse

hey wilhouse.  I cant believe how friendly Mr. Zoo Director has been to you.  I think you should butter him up a little more with maybe dinner or a nice bottle of wine and he will give you the keys to the zoo, any tools you need & his blessings in tearing up his zoo.

Fox, to be perfectly honest with you, all I have done is promise him whatever PR he wants from finding the casque.  He has essentially given me the keys to the zoo (I can come and go any time I please), and dig pretty much where ever I have some thread of assurance that the cask might be. He wants this thing found as much as I do. When (not if) I find it, I plan to do something nice for him. wilhouse

next time you see him, thank him personally from all of us members on these boards for all of his assistance.

...something I forgot to mention in my July 30th theory... When you're standing in the center and turn half-right to plant your shovel between the path and the fence of the Asia exhibit, you could "look back" over your left shoulder and see the spout, if the Aqua tunnel is the spout.  This also puts you looking back to where you had earlier been walking, if that's what "looking back" means. So, wilhouse, when's the next excavation? Pine Tree

Pine,  you are exactly right about looking back at the spout. The next excavation is when it cools down.  The heat index here last week was  106F. wilhouse

Perhaps the djinn in the pic is smoking, or cooling off in the water spout.

Hey wilhouse, I thought of something last night while noodling over the "small, split...." line.  As you recall, my current theory has the Verse stopping your travel at the intersection "In the center of four alike" and then there are the mystery lines.  Well, mentally place yourself there, where you dug a while back.  The pictures seemed to show a big rock and several circular spots (holes?) in the brick/stones.  Today, that's all that's there, but what was that area like in '82? Unless I've missed it, it isn't clear on any of the archival pictures.  In the best of all possible worlds, I'd hope for one of two things: - A collection of things (rocks, even) that could reasonably be called small, split, three-winged, and slight, or - Something specifically in the picture, like a column, or even the base of a column, or a globe-on-a-stick, or something. What thinks ye?

Pine, that is a missing piece of information.  NOT ONE picture that I have shows that area in 1982.  Some people think it was grass, some people think it was tile.  In the middle of that circle there was a Japanese Lantern.  It was from a sister city, given in friendship.  I don't have any pictures of it either. Remeber that I submitted that area as a solution to Preiss.  Perhaps Egbert can help jog him to answering that. The old zoo director had a thought.  The contact areas back then had different fences.  They were small, split rail fences... wilhouse

Fenix, I am sometimes amazed at how our thought processes coincide. The zoo director and I have been discussing those cinder block guys.  They were actually concreted into the ground, and they are at strategic locations around the children's zoo.  They were at every corner of the contact areas.  The three you are looking at, looking at the asia exhibit, were turned into a garden called the Friendship Garden (Friendship South?). I am unsure of when, but we believe it was around 1982.  Were they there when Preiss was there? I don't know. A sign for "future location of the friendship garden" may have been there too. These guys are actually still in the CZ, over in another corner. I have looked at them.  One is small; one is thin (slight?); all three appear to have "wings". Spooky.  And they were located right next to Asia. When I get back to the zoo, I am going to investigate that area.  That and the dirt areas right outside the Asia fences are now my high priority areas. I am trying to locate the engineering plans to the CZ which showed where the cinder block guys were. As to the flag, I never asked what was flown, but I bet it was the Texas flag. By the way, could the center of four alike be the "place" of four alike?  IE., the children's zoo? wilhouse

Hello, Had this book and gave it to a friend. Been looking to find it ever since and now there is a whole site, How Cool!!! I don't believe the casque is in the zoo for many reasons... it's in the park. c

Welcome to the hunt! until a casque is found - one idea is as good as the next - why do you feel its in the park?

Because it has to be on open ground Zoo's in a sense aren't open. I live in Chicago now and the last one here from the painting wasn't quite right but helpful. The verse nailed it down but with some digging (pun intended). The cleveland find was kinda exact so you have to see the painting as the location and the find from the verse. c

not ever having been there I can't say for sure, but I thought that in 1982 the childrens zoo was unfenced- and open to access it didn't "close" at night so the author would have been able to go there as easily as the park.

Look at the Chicago painting. The Water Tower .  it's in the park but it was a distinct marker but not even near to where the casque was found. The verse is the direction.  Standing in the park you have to see those elements they describe. Glass museum. The garden. The train.  The fountain. From there you walk and dig.

The casque was in the park. The Water Tower is downtown a long ways from the site.

Thats true - but we have been figuring there are several symbols/numbers that merely indicate the city. the water tower- the building silouhette in cleveland - lattitude/longitude numbers - but why does that preclude the zoo from the park especially if the zoo is in the park? I agree the verses seem to be almost a journey from general to the specific locations but from what Ive read on this board there is a strong indication the verse leads into the childrens zoo, My question was how do you translate the verse so that it leads you elsewhere.

I should also point out that in the cleveland picture there was a wall that was actually within touching distance of the casque and then in the chicago picture there is the outline of the fountain in grant park which is just a short distance from where the casque was located as was also the statue of the archer.

Welcome aboard Christo - any thoughts are good thoughts in this game. In 1982, the Houston zoo was not a registered Zoological Memeber zoo.  It was free, loosely patrolled, yes, it was fenced and had hours, but you could pretty much come and go as you pleased. It was really an extension of Hermann Park back then. It had a very small budget, and few lights at night. It was open as late as 9pm in the summer.  The children's zoo was even darker and less patrolled, and had no gates.  Actually, one could sneak in from the back gate and never go through the zoo itself.  You could toss a shovel over the fence, wait till dark, and sneak in without anyone seeing you. HEY EGBERT - did you ever get an idea of WHEN Preiss buried all the treasures? I remember reading that he did it in a couple days.  When exactly would be a great thing to know.  I assume it was 1982, but maybe not!! If the casque is in the park itself, and trust me, I have spent hours there looking, then we are probably screwed. The park has been completely rennovated, with new concrete walkways, new paths, new train tracks routing.  But I don't think it is.  Here's why: Every clue in the painting is IN THE ZOO.  The pillars, the animals, the elf, the elf's hat, the berms.  It is even exactly lined up the way the painting shows. The verse says to start at the number 982.  If this verse is Houston, the 982 is the train in front of the zoo.  From there, there are only two ways to go - through the park or through the zoo.  The most obvious small of scale to step across in the park are the train tracks. I've scoured around where the tracks are and used to be, and there's no clues whatsoever, even in the verse or the picture, that helps pinpoint where to dig. I could have missed it, for sure.  There are a couple of small bridges in the park and I've been across those, but there's no hints that lead you around to where to dig...they are just mostly out in the open areas. Yes, fortress north, cold as glass could be the Glassell Museum, but it can't be seen from any part of the park and is not really even part of the park.  Also, there are several other things it could be - the aquarium, the gorilla area, I don't know. The verse does not mention a garden.  However, there does happen to be a Friendship Garden in the children's zoo. From the children's zoo you can see the spout (return pipe or waterfall in aqua tunnel), water veering (aqua tunnel, water forms a "V" over head as it flows past you), there is four alike, it's across from the hospital so there's often police routing traffic with their whistles. The question in the verse is, where is the specific direction to dig? Until the casque in Houston is found, anyone can be right. All suggestions are helpful. Don't let my comments deter you, I could certainly be wrong, and will consider your thoughts next time I am out there.  I am only trying to give you my impressions from a first hand knowledge.  Let's both keep plugging. Oh, one final thing.  The theme of this image 8 is Araby, Arabia, which is in Asia.  One hump camels are from Asia.  There is an Asia contact area in the CZ.  Don't know of any Asia related locations in the Park. wilhouse

Unknown: As to the flag, I never asked what was flown, but I bet it was the Texas flag. logical conclusion...it could also be a Hermann Park or Hermann Zoo flag as well. Is the above mentioned flagpole the typical pole....including the truck & ball? hxxp://www.armstrongflag.com/OUTDOORPOLEPIC.jpg could this represent our 3rd (orb topped) pillar?

A photo of the flagpole is included in one of the links to the photos of the zoo that I took. I don't think there is such a thing as a Hermann Park flag. I will check though. wilhouse

Unknown: The verse says to start at the number 982.  If this verse is Houston, the 982 is the train in front of the zoo. Just a point of clarification here.  The 982 train was moved at some time in the past (but I'm not sure exactly when).  It's not a question of whether the train is in front of the zoo now, but where it was located within the park in 1982 (or 1981 or whenever the clues were written).  I'm sure Wilhouse is taking this into account, but I thought I would mention it for anyone joining us in midstream.

Cath - it's always a pleasure to see you commenting. The train was moved at the end of 1982.  It was about 100 feet closer to the zoo entrance, and turned 90 degrees.  One of the old zoo pictures I scanned has a shot of the old zoo entrance. It was all changed in 1981-82, when they added the aquarium, made it cost money to get in, and added turnstiles.  Next time I go I'll take a shot of the entrance. The "now" position is outside of the zoo; however, the pre-1982 position was outside the 1982 zoo, but would be INSIDE the current zoo. The 100 feet difference wouldn't change where the next line tells you to go.  Through the woods no lion fears. wilhouse

How about this? X Latin America              X Africa X North America               XAsia dig here but where is here?

Just my take on this...  looking at the picture associated with this verse...  small of scale step across...  Perspective should not be lost...  this should if I am correct means the Mini Train Ride.  Now looking at the picture we see the woman with her face covered.  She is in what appears to be tornado or perhaps cotton candy...  concession stand?  Maybe helpful.  Also it would appear that the star in the sky means the big star of texas but if you look at the shadows from the poles, they are going to the east, maybe meaning that you have to face that way when you look for the treasure.   Maybe between the concession stand and something like a flag pole or something.  The numbers in the trees 95 and 30 do in fact take you right to Hermann Park.  If you go to terraserver on the internet you can see that.  In the center of four alike...  I see there is a statue in the middle of what looks like four trees...  here is a link for it.  Maybe of some help. hxxp://terraserver.microsoft.com/addres ... mann+Dr%2c +Houston%2c+TX+77004

Unknown: Now looking at the picture we see the woman with her face covered.  She is in what appears to be tornado or perhaps cotton candy... I believe the "woman" you are referring to is in fact a Djinn...this is what led me off on a Rudyard Kipling trail some time ago.  This was because of a series of short stories of his with titles such as "How the Camel got its hump" & "How the Rhino got its skin".  Interestingly enough, the Camel story's main character (besides the camel) is a Djinn.

Piper, I, like you, thought that small of scale was the miniature train, and that you step across the tracks somewhere. I don't anymore, but perhaps that is for personal convenience. I am and have been worried about it being in the park because the park has been so vastly renovated. If it is true, we are probably screwed, because they have dug up the tracks and put the trains on a new route.  Some of where the old route was is now lake. The Djinn's hat is, in  my opinion, the same hat as Brownie the Elf (who was located in the children's zoo) - see pics I've posted. In addition, the two columns in the pic 8 with horizontal "stripes" are only found in the CZ. If you are supposed to go through the woods first, then there are no tracks. The tracks are / were in the woods. The statue you notice is the Sam Houston statue in Hermann Park. That is actually the first place I thought of as it was in the middle of 4 trees. I say was, because this year they redid that whole area and now the trees are gone.  All the grass area is now covered with a walkway.  I actually spoke to a foreman there and gave him my card and asked him to call me if he found anything. He never did, though I suppose he might not... I know SoonerFan thinks (thought?) it is in the park somewhere.  If it is, I still haven't stumbled on what is small, split, three winged and slight there.  The park is only about 300 acres... wilhouse

Couple of things Wilhouse... - Which columns in the CZ have horizontal "stripes"? - Any good pictures of the Sam Houston statue? - In the Image 8 thread you mention the casques being associated with permanent structures.  This has a place in my "landmark" theory that I described as Reply #66 on the "Cleveland" thread, but note that I was worried about the apparent lack of Houston landmarks. - In defense of bushy areas, I've been interpreting Cleveland's "rectangular plot" to have been a planter, so shouldn't one expect there to be bushes there?  Maybe what I'm saying is that the CZ areas that you're now worried about might have had plants in and around them, but were still open enough for digging. Pine

Pine, the pole holding up the North America sign and another pole shown in one of the old photos are basically wood poles cut to look like totem poles, with horizontal cuts or stripes.  I have some shots of the in the "Digging" photos. In the first set of photos I published were shots of the Sam Houston statue. There was a fence around it at the time so I couldn't get in close. There is no landmark that I can see, per se, but there are rock / concrete walls around the benches that had only dirt next to them, not plants.  This interests me... From what I get from Egbert, the dirt next to the wall in Cleveland was not really a planter.  One end had a bush, the other end (with the treasure) was just dirt.  I am trying to find more photos of the CZ to determine where there were plants and where there was just dirt. wilhouse

Wilhouse...  you wrote in a previous reply that you have not as of yet figured out what is small, split, three winged and slight there. I did a little looking around on the internet and have only come to 2 conclusions on things that are even close to this...  a dart or an arrow.  Darts have three fins or could be considered wings as well as arrows too.  they are small or can be and are slight.  Just food for thought.  It I agree is a very hard verse to figure out.

How about a small cinderblock statue, a thin (slight one), one that appears to have 3 wings?...not sure about split. How about a small, split rail fence in the shape of a U, with three sides? Not sure about slight. How about a bench with split rails, in a small area with three sides, slightly in front of Brownie? Sigh...I go to bed thinking about this and wake up thinking about it. wilhouse

Unknown: I know SoonerFan thinks (thought?) it is in the park somewhere.  If it is, I still haven't stumbled on what is small, split, three winged and slight there.  The park is only about 300 acres... wilhouse I always thought it sounded like it should be about where the boathouse is now and I still tend to think its in the park (because of crossing the small of scale) but you have certainly made some solid connections in the zoo. I've only been out to Hermann park a couple of times but as you say there is just nothing that suggests the four alike (unless they're trees). I've been trying to keep up with the posts but I haven't really worked on this verse in awhile so this may have been talked about, but one thing I find curious about the verse is the 'Through the wood no lion fears' line. Seems odd that wood is singular. Was there a wooden entrance gate to the zoo in '82? Also, was the Japanese garden there in '82? Outside of the zoo that seems to be the only cultural part of the park.

SoonerFan, glad to see you're still around.  Perhaps some weekend you can join me in digging up the CZ!! YES YES!! The entrance gate to the CZ is a wooden gate. If we understand Egbert correctly, the solution will have something to do with the theme of the picture.  The them of pic 8 is Araby, or Saudi Arabia, which is in Asia.  The only "Asia" thing I could find in the park (outside of the zoo)is the Japanese Cultural Gardens. However, it was dedicated in 1986.  There's no telling what was there in 1982. Perhaps they were building it in 1982. wilhouse

So small of scale could mean Children's zoo after the Regular zoo, couldn't it?  as opposed to the small train...

So you would enter the children's zoo then step across was there a bridge by the entrance to the CZ?

Yes, Falcon, exactly. You would go through a wooden fence, go by the aqua tunnel, with it's water veering overhead, and step across a small bridge.  After you do this you could be in one of several places (because of the configuration of the CZ): 1-Standing in between the entrances to Africa and Asia, right next to the three cinder block figures, one of which is small, one of which looks like it has 3 sets of wings, and one of which is thin (slight?) 2-Standing in the middle of the 4 contact areas, with the round tiled area and the Japanese Friendship lantern 3-Standing in between the entrances to North and Latin America, to the right of which is the round globe light wilhouse

Am I hearing it right that "step across a small bridge" could be what the verse means by "small of scale step across" ?

Johann, that is my thought.  Look at reply number 134, on page 9 of this thread. You will see where the small bridges are.  They are in between the Asia and Africa areas and between North and Latin America.  The each go from the  center outward. wilhouse

OK, I see now.  Sorry, Wilhouse.

wilhouse, looking at the map (assuming north up, south down) You start way in the north and you follow the verse and it starts way out in the park and generally flows south into the childrens zoo, and takes you over bridges past the landmarks in the picture through the center of all four quads. to the elf being the most southern on the map... what if you past him and went a little farther south to where you could only turn around and look back along your path. the V of fence at the very bottom of the zoo. whats in that location, could it be buried there?

Well, we've been dissecting this verse to death, haven't we?  Is there any way we can get an updated map with everything on it, including which way is North?  Maltedfalcon did an excellent map before, but it didn't have the friendship garden, the trains, or the tracks (where they were in 1982). The "small of scale" line to me certainly seemed to refer to the mini train, not the bridge, but that's just a guess like everyone else.  Also, we have not focused much on the "perspective should not be lost" clue.  That would seem to be important. As for the Melville quote, it sounds like BP is referring to the llamas, Pierre and Snowflake.  He probably walked around the zoo, noticed the name "Pierre," realized that Herman Melville wrote Pierre, and tied it in (along with the other llama).  I know that it would be strange for him to pick a live clue, but he probably only expected the hunt to take a couple of years.

from an artistic point of view the fenceline at the bottom of the zoo is a diagram of perspective the two lines of the fence forming a vanishing point and running away to the "northeast" and "Northwest" to infinity...

The southern tip of the CZ is where the old entrance gate used to be.  If you note the big circle just north of that tip, that's the auditorium.  You can not see anything but the auditorium from the gate. There's no way to see either the elf fountain or the aqua tunnel.  The tip is really the street, not the CZ. The fence is really rounded. If you are in the middle of the 4 areas in the CZ, it is a rather confusing view.  You are surrounded by contact areas, with plants everywhere and bridges.  I can understand his point of "perspective lost".  It looks like you are in a zoo, but there's no cages, and everything is miniature. As for small of scale being the miniature train, what does that mean?  You can't step over a train. You can't step over the train station. You can only step over train tracks.  But you step OVER tracks, not ACROSS. Even if you stepped across the tracks, then what? There's nothing in the Image that gives any clues out in the park. Here's a link to the current zoo map: hxxp://www.houstonzoo.org/Visit_the_Zoo ... ctions.aqf if you open this map, up is east, so north is left, by the entrance. The train is just north of the entrance.  At the right is the "future home of the African Rainforest". That's the old CZ. The map we did in post 134 is accurate of the CZ in 1982. North is up. Right below this is two pics that Falcon posted (THANKS!). The color map is from 81. The other one, from 79 or 80, I forget which.  I added the notes for north and the 982 train. wilhouse

for Wilhouse

Ok here is a picture of the CZ: hxxp://www.hpbinc.org/images/Child%20Zo ... terfly.jpg you can see "4 alike" "winged" (butterflies are "small" and "slight"?). what is on the ground in the center of the 4 green beams, a dirt area where you can dig, perhaps? What do you think could this be the right place?

Luker, whew, it took me a while to figure out where that picture was from. This picture is from the NEW Children's Zoo, which was finished in 2003. wilhouse

Too bad... could the sculpture have been moved or is it entirely new? I noticed something in maltedfalcons second pic. Could the reflection pool be tied to "perspective should not be lost"? Another thing - the reflection pool on the map resembles the globe column of pic eight. It says Lake Spur on the map. That sounds a bit like larkspur (probable flower of pic eight) to me.

The reflection pool ended up not being built in that time frame.  Ironically, it was just built this year.  The round circle at the end in reality was a momument and a water area. It is now bricked in.  If that's the globe representation, there's no way to dig there anymore. Interestingly, I don't think Lake Spur was ever a "signed" name (I dont' think it had signs that said that.) But even so, that "road" doesn't exist any more. The first time I was looking for the casque I started at the train, went through the woods over the track past the pool and ended up at the statue of Sam Houston.  There were 4 trees surrounding the statue. Can a tree be winged? or three winged? I never found anything related to the image in that direction, especially the columns. wilhouse

Do you have any idea of what type of trees were around the statue at that time.  I know from the arial photograph that I saw they looked pretty big...  but when they were first planted they of course would have been small.  Never heard the term three winged used for a tree before...  but it depends on what kind of a tree they were.  Pictures of them if you can find them would help.

I believe they are oaks. see pic 76 for the best shot I have. hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js ... mbdmzaNnVg wilhouse

Yes they are oaks...  now I am researching that for you...  did you know...  didn't see this in an earlier post but I may have missed it.  The Brownie Statue had been stolen and recoverd several times and now resides outside the Miller Outdoor Theater.  It would seem that the park has gone thru alot of changes...  with the miniature train ride, the statue, the 982 train, and the trees near the Sam Houston Memorial.  I am looking for any clues that might spark something for you being you are the eyes down there!  :) Here is the link about the statue... hxxp://www.ci.houston.tx.us/departme/pa ... story.html

Piper, every bit of help is appreciated. I have a newspaper article that details the life of Brownie.  You are correct when you say he was stolen and recovered several times.  However, his final resting spot is not by Miller Theatre, but in the zoo, in the reflection pond. This happened around 2000, when he was moved out of the CZ. Check the below link and look at pics 88 and 89 hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/osi.js ... mbdmzaNnzw wilhouse

Hey Wilhouse, Any digging plans, now that the weather is moderating? Pine

well, I was thinking of picking it up again next week. I have had a cold all week, so it depends on my recovery. I have been a bit anxious to get back at it. wilhouse

Yes & we too have been a bit anxious for you to get back out digging.  All together now "Find That Casque, Find That Casque, Find That Casque!!!"

I was daydreaming about the line in verse 1 the other day: Falls gently in December night and I heard the weatherman on the news channel say:  the temperature will fall gently tonight. Ok, what if it is the temperature that falls gently in december night?  Temperature meaning thermometer? I asked John Donahoe if there were outside thermometers in the CZ, and he confirmed that several of the buildings had them. Perhaps that is the clue - the treasure is buried below an outside thermometer. Would BP choose something like that which could be moved as a landmark? wilhouse

I think BP would be pushing his luck using a simple thermometer/barometer as the final landmar.  I do like your idea however.....would there be anything else in the area pointing towards temperature or air pressure?

except we need to remember his(BP) idea was that they would be quickly found. This verse also points points to an llama named snowflake in the CZ and thats about as transient a landmark as you could ever have... So a thermometer is possible too. Matt

I wish I had more positive evidence regarding the llama names. wilhouse

really wilhouse....why so?  I remember (vaguely) reading an article long long ago about the flamingo giving birth to 10 baby flamingos.  Only three of them survived {the 2d, 8th, & 9th} so they named them Two, Eight & Nine accordingly.

For any of you who are still following along, I want to bounce a theory off you. Egbert, especially you. The book says that the casque is not buried in a planter.  I have problems with defining what a planter is.  I have to believe that BP wouldn't want his treasure seekers digging up flower beds and bushes.  Almost all of the dirt areas in the CZ were flower beds. My mistake has been looking at it the way it is now, not the way it was. I contacted John D., the old CZ director and he confirmed that only 3 areas were not beds.  All three areas were grassy areas.  To find dirt only areas I have to go behind some buildings outside of the CZ where I haven't really looked before. Do any of you think that BP would bury these casques in a grassy area, where we would have to dig up the grass? Keep in mind that when he buried them, he'd have to disturb the grass. I'm not sure how long it was between burying and publication, but it is possible that he didn't want to bury it in grass which is easy to see if it was disturbed. If I eliminate all flower beds and all grass areas, I need to find other places to dig. That doesn't leave much.  WHICH IS GOOD!! wilhouse

Unknown: so they named them Two, Eight & Nine accordingly. So then is it possible the train is not 982 but the flamingo enclosure is 982 nine eight and two the flamingo's So it would change around the route of the path start at the flamingos and then look for the wood no lion fears.... It would actually set the whole walking path in the CZ wouldn't it? Did I miss reading about these flamingos before (I don't recall them)

You didn't miss it because it was not written. Be wary of the sly fox. Note his "long long ago" phrasing. wilhouse

Wilhouse, I think the Chicago casque was buried in a grassy area.

I looked at those shots from loph and it seems that the grass in that area was kind of spotty, but I agree with you. wilhouse

sorry folks, I was just goofing with the 982 flamingos since wilhouse commented on the llama name. am still quite sure the 982 is the train.

Unknown: For any of you who are still following along, I want to bounce a theory off you. Egbert, especially you. The book says that the casque is not buried in a planter.  I have problems with defining what a planter is.  I have to believe that BP wouldn't want his treasure seekers digging up flower beds and bushes.  Almost all of the dirt areas in the CZ were flower beds. My mistake has been looking at it the way it is now, not the way it was. I contacted John D., the old CZ director and he confirmed that only 3 areas were not beds.  All three areas were grassy areas.  To find dirt only areas I have to go behind some buildings outside of the CZ where I haven't really looked before. Do any of you think that BP would bury these casques in a grassy area, where we would have to dig up the grass? Keep in mind that when he buried them, he'd have to disturb the grass. I'm not sure how long it was between burying and publication, but it is possible that he didn't want to bury it in grass which is easy to see if it was disturbed. If I eliminate all flower beds and all grass areas, I need to find other places to dig. That doesn't leave much.  WHICH IS GOOD!! wilhouse Well, as far as I know, BP doesn't know much about gardening, so he may not know how to dig up a grassy area and then replace it so it looks undisturbed.  My guess is that he buried it in dirt, not under grass.  The Cleveland treasure was in a rectangular plot of dirt, with bushes in the front.  But BP didn't have to disturb the bushes to bury it. Not sure about the Chicago location.

Egbert, if you check the topic called chicago pictures,  you'll see that the chicago area was in grass, but the grass was spotty, kind of an abanded area. I find it hard to believe he'd bury one in a nice grassy area. BTW, I've been meaning to ask. How deep would you say you had to dig before hitting the plastic box? wilhouse

It turned out that it wasn't deep at all --- maybe 1 1/2 feet.  However, BP probably wanted to dig deeper but couldn't, because he hit the foundation of the wall.  If he moved 1 foot further away from the wall, he could have gone much deeper (like I did!).  He probably figured "what the heck," he had already dug the hole, so he may as well bury it there.

Unknown: Egbert, if you check the topic called chicago pictures,  you'll see that the chicago area was in grass, but the grass was spotty, kind of an abanded area. There are pix of the Chicago site?  When did I miss this?

Fox, it must've been while you were Fox napping. Check out the thread by loph on page 3 called Chicago Casque Location Pictures.  The first link doesn't work, but the second one does. I tried it yesterday. wilhouse

Fenix, I agree with you. Fortunately, the grassy areas are limited in area, so will be fairly easy to search them all.  That is assuming that the area right by the fence and the street is not the place to look because there's a lot of space there. I think that's too open though. I also think I need to look a bit away from the CZ just for the reasons you said. wilhouse

Here's a random thought: one use of the word wing I haven't seen mentioned in this thread is a wing of a building (i.e. "the north wing of the hospital").  Any buildings or animal pens in the CZ have 3 distinct sections that could be called wings?

yes, the llama pen. sigh wilhouse

I found this site through my obsession with "A Treasure's Trove" but now I'm obsessed with "The Secret" too. Good thing it's summer and I don't have much else to do. I just joined this group the other day, and spent hours reading the entire thread on Verse 1. What a fascinating story! I'm curious why the conversation died, though, because clearly you're all within yards of the right spot. For "small of scale" my money is on a reference to the fish in the walk-through aquarium; that's just how a writer with a penchant for wordplay would describe a fish. These riddles are not straightforward and cannot be taken at face value, so it is difficult for me to believe the author meant literally "something smaller than usual." At one point back in October, Wilhouse said: "The zoo director and I have been discussing those cinder block guys.  They were actually concreted into the ground, and they are at strategic locations around the children's zoo.  They were at every corner of the contact areas.  The three you are looking at, looking at the asia exhibit, were turned into a garden called the Friendship Garden (Friendship South?). I am unsure of when, but we believe it was around 1982.  Were they there when Preiss was there? I don't know. A sign for "future location of the friendship garden" may have been there too. ... These guys are actually still in the CZ, over in another corner. I have looked at them.  One is small; one is thin (slight?); all three appear to have "wings". Spooky.  And they were located right next to Asia." My question is, what happened to this line of thought? Where were these things located in 1982? Why didn't you jump for joy when you found them?? Pictures??

Forest, we share your obsession.  The thread has not died.  I am speaking for everyone here, but I know many of them and your comments and insights are welcome and appreciated. The concrete guys are generally all gone.  I have some photos of where some of them were.  Look back on this thread and the image 8 thread for my links to the photos, they are all still there. I do not know where they all were.  I am hoping that I can eventually find photos of them and can locate 4 of them so I can figure out where a center was. I agree with you, it's there.  But consider this - it takes me about 4 hours to dig a 3 ft x 1 ft x 2 ft deep hole.  The ground is hard as rock, and at about 2 feet it becomes clay. And remember we're searching for a 6" square box that might have been broken into bits. I have been to the zoo to dig about 4 times in the last couple of months.  No luck. I am digging around the party building, first in the front and more recently behind.  I can pretty much go there whenever I want, so if you have any thoughts I'll be glad to follow up. I have contacted some local people that I hope can get me some more photos of what the zoo used to look like. I am convinced that only through photos and locating the specific spot will I ever find it.  I don't believe I will ever just "stumble" upon it. I will try to answer any questions you have. keep up the though process. regards, wilhouse

That's certainly a lot of photos. I will do my best to go back through them and save local copies of the ones I think might yield insights. After digesting everything in this thread, there is very little doubt in my mind that: ... 'Friendship' refers to the Friendship Garden. ... 'Nine eight two' refers to the train at the entrance to the CZ. ... 'In the sky the water veers / Small of scale' refers to the aquarium tube and the fish therein. ... 'spout' refers to Brownie the elf. Some random thoughts, make of them what you will... Something about this verse must direct the hunter to the exact location, of no more than a couple of square feet of dirt. The word 'center' is suggestive of just such an exact location. If the three lines starting with 'In the center...' refer to the cinderblock men, then finding the center of their 1982 locations would seem to be crucial. If they refer to the center of the four enclosures, then something else must refer to the exact location (unless he buried it right there in the middle). All that remains is the Melville quote through '...night.' 'Tower of delight' could be a play on words for 'tower of the light' = lamppost (didn't someone mention that?), one of which is probably pictured abstractly in P8. Assuming he was there at night (he wouldn't dig a 3-foot trench when the place is full of kids), then the only way he could see what he was doing, apart from a full moon or a flashlight, would be a lamp. And light, after all, falls gently. So was there a lamppost in the middle of the enclosures? Of course, I wouldn't dig under a lamp; I'd probably hit an electrical wire... One more thing. 'Through the wood no lion fears' probably refers to something physically located between the 982 and the aquarium. What was there? How big a distance are we talking about? Could it refer somehow to the entrance to either the CZ or the aquarium?

Cool stuff!  some comments and thoughts: The Friendship garden was built in 1984, two years after the casque was buried.  However, there is some evidence that there was  a Friendship Woods south of the park, across the street. The very center of the 4 compounds was one of my favorite choices, but it was paved over in the 1970's. I dug in the two dirt spots in the center area. I agree he had to have dug at night. But there were plenty of lights in the CZ. You can still see them in the photos.  The round globe ones were primarily around buildings and in concrete. Only a few of them were around dirt, I have dug at all of these sites still available. One is covered by 1" of asphalt.  The slick post and round ball in Pic 8 do seem like a lightpost.  Especially take a look at the last links that Mark Perry posted for me on Pic 8. You'll be able to see where I think he was standing for the Pic 8. The distance from the 982 and the CZ was and is about 1/4 to 1/3 mile.  This might sound funny, but there is something inbetween the two - A ZOO!!  The aqua tunnel is inside the Children's zoo. you go through a wood gate to get in the CZ, if you think that is a linkage to the poem...There is no gate or anything to get into the aqua tunnel, it is just some steps down. my thoughts have also been that it is near a globe type light in the cz.  Take a look at the photos. keep going. wilhouse

I haven't had time to do research like I'd hoped, but eventually I will. I'm going "troving" in a state park this weekend, and hopefully I'll have time after that. One thing, though, while I'm thinking of it. At the time the casque was buried, were animals in the enclosures? Did they stay in the pens overnight or were they taken elsewhere in the zoo? If the animals slept right there in the enclosures, that might eliminate the enclosure interiors from consideration.

yes and no.  some of the animals stayed in the enclosures, some did not.  However, regardless of whether they did or not, there's no way it's in the enclosures. Zoos use special fill instead of dirt in animal pens. If they used regular dirt, the animals would dig ruts in the area and even escape.  The fill they use is pliable like dirt, but is like asphalt.  You can't dig through it. More than you wanted to know about zoo's huh? wilhouse

Hey man, whatever works! That makes me think, though, that what would be really helpful is a large, detailed, and accurate ground map of the CZ so that you could mark off places that are definitely wrong. Do any 70's-era blueprints exist? They would make the search a little more systematic, I think. I'm currently going through the messages on this thread with a fine-toothed comb (about half-way through now) and saving local copies of the most informative pictures so I can review them at leisure. I have a pretty good mental picture of what the zoo looked like 20-odd years ago now, thanks to everyone's diligence. I think I'm the only armchair treasure-hunter on this list; the rest of you are the real thing, out there with shovels and post-hole diggers, etc. Wouldn't it be great if the jewels were worth more than a plane ticket?

I've been looking for blueprints. They exist somewhere, but no one knows where.  The blueprints would show where the cinderblock guys were too. At this point, the treasure casque is the real valuable item to me. wilhouse

Okay, I've got most of the pictures (the ones I think might be the most helpful) saved locally. I have plenty more thoughts. I apologize for the length of this one; I've been saving up. If pictures lead us to the city, whereas the verses (coupled with visual cues from the pictures) lead us to the treasure ground... what is it about P8 that led you to Houston? Latitude and longitude? I doubt 'Friendship south' refers to Friendswood. It's just too far away, and is southeast of Hermann Park, not south. maltedfalcon (7/8/04) wrote: " The hunts as I have seen them use the picture for locating the state, city and  general area. Then the verse takes you on a walk leading directly to the treasure. meaning each stanza of the verse takes you on a narrowing path culminating at an exact spot ." In 1982, the order in which one would have encountered items mentioned in the verse is: 1. The 982 2. The wood no lion fears 3. The sky where water veers 4. The thing we must step across 5. Four alike Still pretty sure that 'wood no lion fears' refers to something physically between the 982 and the aquatunnel. Wilhouse noted that the entrance gate to the CZ was wooden. Do we have pictures?? If there was something on or around this gate that would make the line 'No lion fears' make sense, you've got it nailed for sure. Surely there is a photograph somewhere! An alternative interpretation of the wood no lion fears: 'Through the wood' could mean, "Go through the wooden gate. Now you are in a children's zoo, so you needn't have any lion fears. They're llamas, for pete's sake" (based on a note from wilhouse, 6/8/04). I had been thinking the 982 was much closer to the CZ than it really was. The 982 was at the main Zoo entrance, not the entrance to the CZ. That means there is a lot of ground between the 982 and the CZ. Earlier I referred to the importance of finding something in the verse that gives us a precise location. I mentioned 'center' as one possibility. Another possibility is the line 'Perspective should not be lost.' If we take the author at face value, then perhaps he is helping us establish a line of sight, if we keep the perspective the same as in P8 as we enter the CZ to the south of the berms. Would the berms have been visible from within the CZ in 1982 (through the gate)? To refresh your memory, the berms are in pic 64: hxxp://share-dell.shutterfly.com/action/share/view?i=EeEMmbdmzaNnqQ&open=1&sm=1&sl=1 wilhouse's message about hawks ('three-winged') and dwarf goats ('small of scale') (7/8/04) was exciting. And goats do have cloven ('split') hooves, do they not? What are the bridges "over"? Water? I believe it is still important to find out what flag flew over the CZ. Regarding the center bricked-in area in the middle of the fours compounds... I know you dug there, but are we absolutely certain that the bricks were laid prior to when BP buried the treasures? When was the Japanese lamp put there? If it was just a grass spot at the time, it would have been a great place to bury treasure. Why on earth is a large rock sitting on one of the holes in the center? And why just one? Is the white thing in the center hole the base of the Japanese lantern? What were the holes for? Trees? Ground lamps for the lantern? Suppose there was nothing but dirt in the central hole in 1982 (perhaps a tree had been there and had recently died, so no one would notice dirt disturbed overnight). A determined individual with a post-hole digger could maybe dig down a couple of feet and deposite the casque. And finally (whew!)... where's that backhoe!

Forest, this is fun. Let's keep it up.  Here's some answers and perhaps more questions: If pictures lead us to the city, whereas the verses (coupled with visual cues from the pictures) lead us to the treasure ground... what is it about P8 that led you to Houston? Latitude and longitude? The lattitude and longitude, and cool references to zoo animals. Also, perhaps the state of texas in the flagstones - see my photo on pic 8.  But honestly, nothing more concrete. Oh except all the pillars, and the globe, and brownie the elf's hat. I doubt 'Friendship south' refers to Friendswood. It's just too far away, and is southeast of Hermann Park, not south. I confused you there.  Across from the cz, by the hospital is a woody area.  This area used to be called the "Friendship Woods".  I am not referring to Friendswood. Still pretty sure that 'wood no lion fears' refers to something physically between the 982 and the aquatunnel. Wilhouse noted that the entrance gate to the CZ was wooden. Do we have pictures?? If there was something on or around this gate that would make the line 'No lion fears' make sense, you've got it nailed for sure. Surely there is a photograph somewhere! I probably have some shots of the entry gate, but it is / was a simple wood log type gate. Nothing specatcular about it. I had been thinking the 982 was much closer to the CZ than it really was. The 982 was at the main Zoo entrance, not the entrance to the CZ. That means there is a lot of ground between the 982 and the CZ. The whole zoo is between the two.  and it's changed significantly in the last 20 years.  If lion fears had specific meaning I dont know what is. Would the berms have been visible from within the CZ in 1982 (through the gate)? The berms are just visible from the north side of the cz. You can see it from the fence / gate area. wilhouse's message about hawks ('three-winged') and dwarf goats ('small of scale') (7/8/04) was exciting. And goats do have cloven ('split') hooves, do they not? These are all possible, I just don't know anymore. What are the bridges "over"? Water? Not really. the contact areas have dips and drops in them and the bridges kind of go over lower areas. I believe it is still important to find out what flag flew over the CZ. The zoo director tells me that there never was a flag flown. I find it hard to believe, but that's what he said. Regarding the center bricked-in area in the middle of the fours compounds... I know you dug there, but are we absolutely certain that the bricks were laid prior to when BP buried the treasures? When was the Japanese lamp put there? If it was just a grass spot at the time, it would have been a great place to bury treasure. Why on earth is a large rock sitting on one of the holes in the center? And why just one?Is the white thing in the center hole the base of the Japanese lantern? What were the holes for? Trees? Ground lamps for the lantern? Suppose there was nothing but dirt in the central hole in 1982 (perhaps a tree had been there and had recently died, so no one would notice dirt disturbed overnight). A determined individual with a post-hole digger could maybe dig down a couple of feet and deposite the casque. OK, this was my first choice for the casque and I was originally sure it was there.  However, I have a photo from the 70's that clearly shows the tiles in the center area, and the lantern.  There were some small grass areas - holes - and I already dug down over 2 feet in each one, nothing.There were three large rocks in the center area over concreted in areas.  The central hole is not a hole, it is concrete, and always was. And finally (whew!)... where's that backhoe! LOL YES [quote][/quote]

On another thread, wilhouse said (almost a year ago to the day), "Here's something interesting I just found out from the zoo director at the hermann park children's zoo. There used to be statues in the childrens zoo. Two of them were statues of hawks. One of the hawks had a wing broken off. He's trying to find out when." As far as I know, this intriguing fact hadn't been mentioned on this thread, so I thought I would point it out.

I forgot all about that. I need to find some pictures and find out where they were. wilhouse

Wilhouse, I really hope you find this one - you've put a lot of time and effort into it.  Admittedly, I haven't put in nearly as much time, but I have a couple of things I'd like to share however improbable they might be.  I'm not saying that I believe the casque is outside the CZ, but I'm indulging that train of thought - I figure if it's inside the CZ then you've got it covered about as well as can be.  Plus, I kinda like the idea of the casque being in a more remote location. Do you know how long the Japanese Gardens have been there?  I can put them there as far back as 1990.  I think that this ties in nicely with the overall theme of migration of peoples and their cultures, as well as with the find in the cultural gardens in Cleveland.  There is a snowbell tree here that "resembles a winter scene in which snow is falling on the lantern" when it drops its blossoms ( hxxp://www.jgarden.org/gardens.asp?ID=376 ).  The gardens also have water features such as fountains and a waterfall.  On the other hand, this area may be too busy or restricted as well. "Through the wood No lion fears" - could this possibly refer to the golf course (wood = golf club)?  I know, it's a long shot.  I'd feel better if it said "Through the wood No golden bear fears".

Jam, good one (golden bear reference) I don't know when the japanese garden was built, but it was dedicated in 1984. That probably means it wasn't there in 82.  Also, there is no way he could have buried it IN the garden. It is all sculpted and such and there would be no where to bury it without digging up the garden.  I too liked that spot and looked all around it.  there is some bare areas around the garden, but a lot of it was renovated so if it was there it's gone.  that's why I gave up on the park itself, if it was there, it's gone now. wilhouse

I thought y'all might be interested in this.  This move effectively eliminates anyone from finding the casque unless they come to this board, or do a lot of research. wilhouse

wilhouse : Any progress on securing blueprints? And what is the timetable for demolition of the CZ?

the blueprints are in seattle. the zoo has hired a firm to do the geotechnical and layout work, and they sent them the blueprints. I'm trying to get a copy of them. as for the timetable, the official word is next summer for beginning the demo. however, they need $20MM and have only raised about $2MM. you know how it goes. Preiss told me to dig there after I showed him my photo of the zoo area with image 8 superimposed on it. He told me it in two different emails. It's the right place.  Unforturnately, there's lots of square footage, and it's hard as rock.  I'll get it... wilhouse

Wilhouse, Is that the image that you previously posted with the two photos combined together and the Image 8 elements superimposed on top?

yes - here it is again. wilhouse

so you believe the casque will be buried somewhere in this pic Wilhouse?  If I were a betting man (oooh, hey I am) I would say either right next to the tree with many forks in center of pic or behind the picket fence barely visible just past said tree.  Good luck... and quit waiting for cooler weather.  Get out there and dig man...dig.

Go, Wilhouse!  (But be safe.)

Yeah, maybe you could find a doctor or something whom you could convince to hang out there with you while you dig...

or I could just stay liquid - ated wilhouse

What is the status of the dig Wilhouse?  Any new information to be shared? Also, what the heck has happened to this hunt?  Too much inactivity for my liking.  Let's get back on this thing folks.

I agree; I've been distracted by other hunts. I will devote my entire Saturday this weekend to finding you guys a treasure (from the comfort of my own home, but if I happen to be inspired... I do keep a shovel in my trunk).

Great!  Go for it, Forest Blight!

guys, what has happened? life has happened.  Katrina put the fear of weather into us, and Rita scared us to death. heat - Houston set a record temperature yesterday for September, 102F, with heat index up to 108F.  If you guys think I'm gonna dig in that kind of heat you're nuts. When the weather turns, the shovels will come out in Houston. wilhouse

Sounds reasonable enough House of Wil.  Just dont wait until the ground freezes over..ok?

fortunately, the number of days in houston below 32 are typically about 2. last year it was 0. however, as you know, in winter it can rain for weeks on end. we can't dig in the muck here either. yes, it's either too hot, too cold or too wet. what a great place to live. wilhouse

wilhouse, I love puzzles like this, and as a kid, my mom took me to Hermann Park and the CZ pretty frequently. Did you get a chance to dig?  I'm on the edge of my seat!

Big, I have not been to the zoo for a while.  I need to contact the zoo director and see where they are on their reconstruction.  That's when I get to use the bulldozer... wilhouse

Wow.  You aren't kidding.  I hope it works out!!  Make sure you get someone to take pics of you doing it -- that would be a great finale to this whole saga!

wil House bringing da House down

funny. on a less funny note, I got confirmation today that the funds have been raised at the zoo for demo of the CZ.  It starts in the fall.  The director and I are now in the planning stages of using the bulldozer to dig up the areas we think the casque is in. Time will be limited, so we need to mark off the area, get an area for spoils and sifting through the dirt, etc.. if it's there, it will be found this year. wilhouse

Any chance this could be dug up on April 13th, exactly three years since this thread began?

no, more like august 13 or september 13.  by april 13, it will have been paved over and lost forever. for those who don't know, catherwood started me on this specific trail with her post 3 years ago, though I have been looking for over 20 years. wilhouse

Any news, wilhouse?? Has anyone noted that the last two lines invoke the "I'm a little teapot" rhyme? There's the spout! A whistle sounds. Also, from a poem by Ruth Temple Lindsay: The lion , he prowleth far and near, Nor swerves for pain or rue; He heedeth nought of sloth nor fear , He prowleth--prowleth through The silent glade and the weary street, In the empty dark and the full noon heat; And a little Lamb with aching feet-- He prowleth too. Can you tell I've been using Google Book Search?

forest_blight wrote:: Any news, wilhouse?? no, we're too close to DocLove's graduation in May for me to do anything but right after, it's off we go again.  The bulldozer will be ready around August for the final dig. wilhouse

Such big bulldozers for such a little flower pot...

if the ground weren't so hard and full of roots, I'd keep trying to dig. but i've run out of time. I'm hoping it doesn't get crushed in the process... wilhouse

I didn't expect to find myself thinking about Verse 1 today. I re-read it, and I have some thoughts. Below I present my thoughts along with the verse, line by line. Hopefully this will revive discussion of this verse/pic combo. Fortress north / Cold as glass Why glass ? When I cast about for nouns to help me illustrate the concept of "cold," glass is not at the top of my list. It works, but there are much better alternatives, and it doesn't even rhyme properly with task . Is this choice significant? In Houston, immediately north of Hermann Park is the Museum of Fine Arts, which includes the Glass ell School of Art. But why would this be described as cold or a fortress ? What is it about the gorilla house and aquarium that make them "fortress-like"? Friendship south I find it unlikely that Friendship refers to something literally called "friendship," just as compass in Verse 8 refers to neither a literal compass nor something with "compass" in its name. wilhouse, on the other hand, notes that the woody area across the street from the zoo was once known as "Friendship Woods." How do you know, and do you have any documentation? Would BP have known this? Take your task To the number Nine eight two Pretty certain this refers to the locomotive #982 (until recently) on display in Hermann Park. No further discussion necessary. Through the wood No lion fears I am still not satisfied with the theories on these lines. If the verse leads us on a trail to the treasure, then the phrase could refer to anything physically between the 982 and the aquatunnel. In the sky the water veers Small of scale We also know that In the sky the water veers is a reference to the aquatunnel. I strongly believe Small of scale is BP cleverly referring to the fish there (fish have small scales -- thanks, Fenix).

Step across Probably a reference to one of the bridges, either between the Africa and Asia enclosures or between the North America and Latin America enclosures. Perspective should not be lost What perspective? That of a child? This is a children's zoo, after all. And why is it important to retain the perspective of a child? In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight In the CZ, the most obvious candidate for four alike is the set of four enclosures (North America, Latin America, Africa, and Asia). I can't shake the notion that In the center of four alike / Small, split / Three-winged and slight should be taken as a unit. In other words, the four alike , whatever they are, might be described by the four adjectives Small, split / Three winged and slight . Alternatively, Small and split may be two separate adjectives whereas Three winged and slight may be taken as a unit, referring to the statues. Alternatively still, Small and split may be interpreted as a unit (the dwarf goats mentioned by wilhouse would certainly be small and would have split , or cloven, hooves) while Three winged and slight could be either one or two (or even three) descriptors. What do the adjectives refer to? There are many possibilities. They could refer to the statues. The wooden cut-out animals seen in some of the photographs of the CZ fences show hawks and goats, so these descriptors might apply to those as well. Finally, they could describe North America, Latin America, Africa, and Asia. But this section of the verse makes less sense if the adjectives are meant to apply to the continents themselves. While Latin America may be described as split by the Panama Canal, the other adjectives are difficult to pair with the remaining continents. And what is the difference between "small" and "slight," anyway? BP would not want us to dig up an entire park, and thus his clues must point us to a specific square yard or so in which to dig. What about this verse precisely locates the treasure? The only real candidate is the word center , as it denotes an indisputable exact location to dig. If center is where "X marks the spot," so to speak, then the whole question hinges on what four alike refers to, and nothing else.

Unknown: Judge, then, how all-desolating and withering the blast, that for Pierre, in one night, stripped his holiest shrine of all overlaid bloom, and buried the mild statue of the saint beneath the prostrated ruins of the soul's temple itself. As the vine flourishes, and the grape empurples close up to the very walls and muzzles of cannoned Ehrenbreitstein; so do the sweetest joys of life grow in the very jaws of its perils. But is life, indeed, a thing for all infidel levities, and we, its misdeemed beneficiaries, so utterly fools and infatuate, that what we take to be our strongest tower of delight , only stands at the caprice of the minutest event-- the falling of a leaf , the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather? Unknown: Are we so entirely insecure, that that casket, wherein we have placed our holiest and most final joy, and which we have secured by a lock of infinite deftness; can that casket be picked and desecrated at the merest stranger's touch, when we think that we alone hold the only and chosen key? What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Clearly a reference to Herman Melville's novel Pierre , Chapter 2 (well, clear in hindsight; thank you Egbert!). The relevant passage is: What falls gently in this excerpt from Pierre? A leaf, but only figuratively, and I think BP intends more than that. Wilhouse's revelation that the CZ kept two llamas named Pierre and Snowflake indicates that this passage serves multiple purposes. Pierre may refer to Herman Melville and hence Hermann Park, and that which falls gently may be Pierre's pal Snowflake. Or, it could be a reference to the Japanese lantern. Light falls gently , and the lantern is arguably a tower of delight ( de light , as wilhouse pointed out). I like the thermometer theory, too. My favorite part about the Pierre find, however, is that the passage quoted above continues, thus: BP's sense of humor was wonderful. Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! A whistle sounds. If the thing in the center of the enclosures is the treasure ground , then looking back, you would see the spout (Brownie). Besides Brownie being literally a fountain (spout), note that in Image 8, the djinn is sitting atop a water spout! ...and if the djinn refers to Brownie the elf (note the hat), then spout also refers to Brownie the elf.

The time for wilhouse to dig up the CZ is rapidly approaching. Let's do what we can to narrow down the search to a square foot of property for him. wilhouse - did you ever get those blueprints from Seattle? The reason I ask is that there is still some confusion over what precisely that hole-filled concrete thingy is, smack in the center of the CZ enclosures. Was it built expressly for the Japanese lantern, and if so, were the holes around it for flowers or for lights? The blueprints might shed light. I know you dug there, but are we certain that the bricks were laid prior to when BP buried the casques? If it was just a grass spot at the time, it would have been a great place to bury treasure. You said, "The central hole is not a hole, it is concrete, and always was," but it seems strange to make a hole and fill it with concrete for no particular reason. Can you provide a timeline? We need more old photos of the CZ. The more, the better. How much would it cost to place an ad in the local classifieds? I would pitch in!

forest_blight wrote:: did you ever get those blueprints from Seattle? The reason I ask is that there is still some confusion over what precisely that hole-filled concrete thingy is, smack in the center of the CZ enclosures. Was it built expressly for the Japanese lantern, and if so, were the holes around it for flowers or for lights? The blueprints might shed light. I know you dug there, but are we certain that the bricks were laid prior to when BP buried the casques? If it was just a grass spot at the time, it would have been a great place to bury treasure. You said, "The central hole is not a hole, it is concrete, and always was," but it seems strange to make a hole and fill it with concrete for no particular reason. Can you provide a timeline? We need more old photos of the CZ. The more, the better. How much would it cost to place an ad in the local classifieds? I would pitch in! no, I never got the blueprints, but when I next get to the zoo I'll ask again.  I have a photo, I think I posted it, clearly showing the lantern and the tiles around it.  nothing is in the holes.  The photo is from Dec 1978, see below. The reason the central hole is full of concrete is because it's where the lantern was.

take a look at this. the date on the slide is dec 1978. for some reason it won't post, I'm sending it to FB to post for me. wilhouse

I want to make a few comments to FB's great posts on this verse.  I do not want to blunt the thought process or good converstations, so unless I have facts to add, I'll leave out conflicting thoughts. Fortress north / Cold as glass The Glassell art studio is made of tiles, which look like ice.  There is a church across the street which looks like a fortress. I believe these clues were to help lead you to the zoo area, once you decoded the lat / long to determine you were in Houston. Friendship south John Donahoe, the children's zoo director for many years, said that he drove on the street south of the zoo every day going to work, and there was a sign right by that wooded area, for years, that said "Friendship Woods". That would be just south of the CZ.  The sign is no longer there, so it is anecdotal evidence only. No one could ever confirm the llamas named Pierre and snowflake.  Sometimes I think that's just wishful thinking.  The data base of animal names (yes there is one) doesn't go back that far, so I am depending on 30 year old memory of the administrators. Let me posit one thing: Some clues lead you directly to the casque (hop up 7 steps and dig, etc.), some do not.  Some images are representations of the general area, not the specific area.  What if some images are actual maps of the dig site, and the image has the clue you need for the final location, not the verse?  If so, then I should find the casque right next to a pole.  This is where I plan to dig more aggressively in the next few weeks, with some help. Thanks to FB for posting the pics. wilhouse

From wilhouse: Here's a couple of shots of Glassell.  Note how the tiles look like ice: Here's a shot of the church, across the street from Glassell. Note how it looks like a fortress: I believe these are landmarks to steer you in the direction of the zoo.

wilhouse - I'm completely sold. Thank you for the pictures and the clarifications.

forest_blight wrote:: Through the wood No lion fears I am still not satisfied with the theories on these lines. If the verse leads us on a trail to the treasure, then the phrase could refer to anything physically between the 982 and the aquatunnel. I don't recall if this was brought up before, but I remember going to the zoo when I first moved to Houston in 1982 and I remember there being water fountains that were in the shapes of lions. The fountain was in its mouth and you had to stick your head through the jaws to drink. Do you know if those are still there Wilhouse? Not sure if they were in the children's zoo or the regular zoo but if there was one somewhere on a wooded walking path through the zoo it might explain these lines. Of course I was pretty young in 1982 so I might not be remembering correctly. Maybe something to ask the zoo director though.

That's fascinating, SoonerFan! All the more reason to find some pictures of the zoo from way back. Did it look like this one in Ft. Wayne? hxxp://jordan.fortwayne.com/ns/features/zoo/98zoo/lion.php

Yes! I believe it was in the same style as that one. Nice find FB!

According to the website, that one has been in Fort Wayne for 30 years. Here are a couple of more shots of him. Perhaps wilhouse can show these to the zoo director in Houston and ask if something similar was there?

I don't need to show the pictures to him, I know for a fact that they were there.  While I don't have any photos of them, they were sprinkled around the park. There were lions, rhinos, and other animals.  There were several in the CZ, but they are all gone, and replaced with permanent drinking fountains.  There are no drinking fountains close to the area I think the casque is, there is one by the restrooms and the concession stand. We've hypothesized before that the lion drinking fountain is the No Lion Fears reference.  But it's also anecdotal, as we'll never know. wilhouse

Bingo! This is the one that once graced the Houston Zoo: hxxp://www.houstontx.gov/hr/savvypages/archives/fall04/fall04_HermannPark.htm From a forum discussing separate facilities for patrons of different races during segregation, I found this: "I had a very similar experience at Herman Park Zoo. I was 4 at the time, and I was there with my mom who was chaperoning my sister’s first grade class. We took a break for water, and all the kids lined up at one of the water fountains. I don’t think they are still there today, but one fountain was a lion’s head, and the other was a hippo or something like that. I remember thinking how stupid those kids were because there was no one at all at the other fountain, so I decided to outsmart them and use the unoccupied one. To this day, I can still feel the sting of the kids laughing at me for the horrible thing I had done."

Turns out these things were everywhere. I found evidence of similar lion fountains in Zelienople, PA; Rye, NY; Salt Lake City, UT; Norwich, CT; Coupeville, WA; and somewhere in central Florida.

man, there's no way I'd stick my head in that thing... wilhouse

This coming from someone who has spent more time at a closed Children's zoo  in the past twp years than David Carr and is volunteering his time to help dispose of obsolete concrete. On a more constructive note, I love all the photos from the trips over the last few years. Preiss has choosen burial spots within his locations which are half obscured from open site (behind a wall, under a bridge, etc....) It seems that the spot you have dug in (next to that rock) is very much on a main walkiing path in the zoo. Other observations that may or may not have been said... In choosing bwteen a left and right fork.. "No lion fear"  would indicate that the fork to choose is NOT the one that leads to the lion area. Also, "Perspective should not be lost" This is the point from the aquatunnel  where the Children's Zoo directional arrow is... so do you know where the "pick up lost children building" was? Good luck.... 'Through the wood' to me simply confirms the walk through the park.

In comparing the 1982 (1975) zoo map with the current layout from the CZ site, I note that there is one exhibit of interest that does not appear to have moved. Noting this may change your path enough to provide you with a different perspective and a few feet may matter... "Through the wood No lion fears." Beyond the entrance, after visiting the engine 982, before you past the reflecting pool, you get to an exhibit that is fronted by landscaping (tall shrubs and trees) This is the back of the sea lion exhibit (no lion fears). With this being a reference, you do not have to go deep into the zoo to find the lions den (cats), and therefore, you may be able to enter the children's zoo from the north as opposed to the south.  (if you choose to go west) "Small of scale"  May not mean the children's zoo but may refer to a reptile exhibit.  I may be wrong, but the rhinos and the camel's do not appear to be near old children's zoo  (unless one or both of them switch sides between the years) "Perspective should not be lost" I like the idea of this being a park map. Were the llamas on the east, across from the rhinos, before the camels??  (This is now called hoofed exhibits)

In the prior post, I believe I referenced the reflection pool when I meant to reference the aquatunnel.

wilhouse wrote:: man, there's no way I'd stick my head in that thing... wilhouse Man, that ain't you, Wilhouse?  I was just beginning to think that FB had special powers.

I do, but not that kind.

I am in pursuit of the mysterious llamas known as Snowflake and Pierre, who may or may not have lived in the CZ in 1981-ish. Unfortunately, wilhouse notes that the zoo's animal data base doesn't go back that far, so our only recourses may be (1) look up contemporary newspaper articles and (2) solicit material in the local Houston paper. 1. UNC does not have the Houston Chronicle index, but many universities (mainly in Texas) do. Here is a list, by state: IL    -NORTHWESTERN UNIV1995-2001 INU    - MA    -BOSTON PUB LIBR BRL    - NY    -NEW YORK PUB LIBR RES LIBR NYP    - TX    -AUSTIN PUB LIBR TXG    - TX    -BAYLOR UNIV IYU    - TX    -BRAZOSPORT COL LIBR BPJ    - TX    -DALLAS PUB LIBR IGA    - TX    -HOUSTON PUB LIBRLocal holdings availa... TXN    - TX    -LAREDO COMMUN COL1995-2000 TLJ    - TX    -SAN JACINTO COL, LEE DAVIS LIBR SJY    - TX    -SOUTHERN METHODIST UNIV, CENT LIBR ISM    - TX    -SOUTHWESTERN UNIV TXX    - TX    -STEPHEN F AUSTIN STATE UNIVApr. 1995-2005 TXK    - TX    -TEXAS A&M UNIV TXA    - TX    -TEXAS A&M UNIV LIBR, COMMERCE IEA    - TX    -TEXAS A&M UNIV, CORPUS CHRISTI TXF    - TX    -TEXAS SOUTHERN UNIV TXT    - TX    -TEXAS STATE LIBR IKM    - TX    -TEXAS STATE UNIV-SAN MARCOS1995- TXI    - TX    -TEXAS TECH UNIV1995- ILU    - TX    -TRINITY UNIV, COATES LIBR1995-1999 TNY    - TX    -UNIV OF HOUSTON, CLEAR LAKE UHC    - TX    -UNIV OF HOUSTON, VICTORIA TXV    - TX    -UNIV OF N TEXAS1995- INT    - TX    -UNIV OF TEXAS AT AUSTIN1995- IXA    - TX    -UNIV OF TEXAS AT EL PASO TXU    - TX    -UNIV OF TEXAS AT TYLER TEX    - UT    -SALT LAKE CITY PUB LIBR UUP    - WA    -UNIV OF WASHINGTON LIBR WAU    - It would be nice if someone within driving distance of one of these libraries could pay a visit and look up everything related to llamas or the CZ in the 1980-1982 range and possibly confirm the existence of our llamas. 2. What do you think about posting an ad in the Chronicle classifieds asking for stories / photographs of the CZ from the early 1980s (without suggesting Snowflake and Pierre)? I would definitely chip in for that.

I have actually gone to the Houston public library and gone through their archives.  A lot of the newspaper articles I have posted, such as the one on Brownie, are from that archive. I've thought about placing that ad myself. I may still do it. I've been trying to find the newspaper archive on the zoo, but haven't had any luck as of yet. wilhouse

And I am assuming that the 'West Entrance' has changed locations from 1980 to now. (from what I interpret)

Trohn wrote:: And I am assuming that the 'West Entrance' has changed locations from 1980 to now. (from what I interpret) I'm not sure which entrance was "west" but the main entrance is still approximately at the same location that it was. the entrance at the other end of the park, though the CZ, is closed, but there is one near it that is new. wilhouse

Wilhouse - this suggestion is kind of "out there," but please bear with me in the interests of last-minute brainstorming. And remember I haven't been to the CZ in person so it's hard for me to gauge the reasonableness of this suggestion. Is there the slightest chance the casque could be buried in the aquatunnel? Or possibly very, very near it? The lines, numbered: 1 Fortress north 2 Cold as glass 3 Friendship south 4 Take your task 5 To the number 6 Nine eight two 7 Through the wood 8 No lion fears 9 In the sky the water veers 10 Small of scale 11 Step across 12 Perspective should not be lost 13 In the center of four alike 14 Small, split, 15 Three winged and slight 16 What we take to be 17 Our strongest tower of delight 18 Falls gently 19 In December night 20 Looking back from treasure ground 21 There's the spout! 22 A whistle sounds. On re-reading, the lines 1-8 could lead you to the CZ entrance. Lines 9-10 describe the aquatunnel itself (water veers / small of scale, hardee har we get it). Lines 13-19 may simply be a reference to the Japanese lantern in the center of the four areas of the CZ, and operate as a "proximity confirmer" to let you know that you're near the right spot (which raises a question - did the lantern contain a light that would have been on at night?). Lines 20-22 may simply point out that you can see Brownie from the casque site. That would leave lines 11-12 as the ones that pinpoint a spot of dirt, not line 13 as we've been thinking. So, if one enters the aquatunnel, is it simply a short tube, or a hallway with a T-intersection? Is the ground concrete with no dirt spots? Are there planters in there? If one enters, one's perspective would be restricted to "straight ahead," so can one see a particular patch of ground through the opposing entrance as one walks through the aquatunnel? It's difficult to tell from the photographs how things are oriented in there. Another thought, for those of you concerned about the difficulty of burying a casque in the CZ, is that the aquatunnel would have been shielded from passersby, and no one would be there anyway after closing time.

ok, these are good questions. I will have to post some photos when i get home tonight, but in the interest of an explanation I will try to answer questions here. the aquatunnel (AT) is right next to the CZ entrance.  There are two entrances, about 20 feet apart. The AT is inbetween those two entrances.  There is an entrance to the AT on each side by each CZ entrance.  The tunnel itself is about 20 feet long and is shaped like a Y.  In other words, there's two entrances and two exits. CZ entrance  >--------<  AT exit.  The right exit leads to the center of the CZ.  The left exit leaves u by Africa (north of Asia, north of the bridge between africa and asia.) It is all concrete.  Certainly there's planters around the AT, and around each contact area.  I have dug in many of them.  I have also dug in planters by the AT.  Interestingly, the AT has steps leading up to the waterfall by the AT pond, which is the same number of steps as the cross hatch lines at the bottom of image 8. Ok, I have always believed that the "veering water" was the AT, if you go through it and leave by the left entrance you go straight and turn right to go over a small bridge (small of scale, step across).  You are going right by the Asia contact area (remember that Araby is part of Asia) and it leads you to the "center" where u can see Brownie. Are there lots of places to dig?  Yes.  They are mostly planters.  Have I dug in them all?  Once at least, but that doesn't mean it's not there.  Is the dirt full of roots and hard as rock? Yes. hope this answers ur questions. wilhouse

Wilhouse, where is this in relation to the Texas wetlands exhibit that I have read about? (is this a new exhibit or was it there back in 1982?)

Thanks, wilhouse. Take lots of pictures for us! Also, here are some of Eg's old pictures to provide you with inspiration. It can be done.

Trohn wrote:: Wilhouse, where is this in relation to the Texas wetlands exhibit that I have read about? (is this a new exhibit or was it there back in 1982?) That exhibit was in a building inbetween the party room and the nursery. standing behind the auditorium, looking north, going in a circle from south to west to north is the auditorium, party room, wetlands exhibit, nursery, concessions stand wilhouse

What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Wilhouse, excuse my ignorance here, but have you decided on these lines of the verse?  I've started reading back from post #1 on this thread again and hope to finish soon.  As with any thread, weeding through the immaterial stuff hurts the brain.  Before adding my nonsense to it, I'm curious as to your thoughts before I add mine.

Those lines supposedly refer to Pierre and Snowflake, the 2 llamas at the zoo.  However, no one has been able to confirm the names.

for sure one of the lines, what we take to be our strongest tower of delight, is from Hermann Melville's Pierre.  Now, perhaps that was it's only significance. To stear us to Herman Park.  Perhaps, as Egbert notes, it was the name of a llama and so Preiss used it as a double clue. My personal opinion is that it IS a clue to lead us to Herman Park, but also to lead you to the party room.  Tower of delight.  I believe the party room is the general location of the casque. Falls gently in December night is a tough one.  No answer for that.  Snowflake perhaps.  Temperature?  There's an air conditioner by the party room.  Thermometer? I have been told that there was a thermometer onthe outside of the party room.  I just dont know. wilhouse

Still fascinating.  The posts from three years ago I mean.  Here's my thoughts for what they are worth. When I first read the book, before Q4T, my buddy and i thought that those lines meant an American flag, whose shadow falling in December would point to the x spot.  Of course we weren't thinking Houston at the time.  Were there any flags there?  Near the party room?  After looking at the Copley Square ideas (green tower of lights) for image11, I thought Christmas tree for these lines, and perhaps the shadow of that tree in the evening, pointing to the spot.  After all your research, any xmas trees?

no on the xmas tree, yes on the flagpole, but it's over in the Asia exhibit (yes, Asia, home of the Araby).  It would be north and east of the party room, so in the morning the shadow would fall on the party room area. But there's so many trees now it won't fall. I'll be there in the am and will check out where it would fall. wilhouse

Doesn't the Melville quote go on to say that what falls is a "leaf"?

I thought it was a metaphor for Pierre's father.

Fenix wrote:: 'What we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event—the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice...' A leaf would indeed fall in December......but why NIGHT?

I always thought that night here confirmed the lamp post as the burial site marker. (I believe like Wilhouse that Pierre and Snowflake were the llamas) Watching snow fall in the night, you always need to look at a light post to see the flakes.

The Pierre passage truly is about his father, not a leaf.  His father is his "strongest tower". wilhouse

A falling father?

In 1982, without the internet, was it BP's objective for one who can figure out this part of the verse, to have read Pierre first? Or was it the review by Hermann? Edit:  I can see if the location was found first, Hermann, and stumbling onto Pierre, that would be fair enough.  Which seems to be the case here anyway.  Never mind...

small split three winged and slight, maybe these things are very small, like four pipes sticking up out of the ground.  Does anyone have a meaning for SMALL SPLIT THREE WINGED AND SLIGHT?  I think "SLIGHT" is a keyword here.  But three winged and small split.  alike.  Maybe snowflakes, no snowflakes are alike but maybe if they are decorations they would be alike.  They are definitely split and small. any thoughts?

reg, I like the brainstorming. it might help us stumble onto something. there are no pipes sticking up per se, but there are sprinklers and hose connections. no snowflakes. perhaps around christmastime, but I don't think you can use transitive things like that. wilhouse

all we gotta do is figure out what the heck SMALL SPLIT THREE WINGED AND SLIGHT obviously these "things" look the same. -regulus

This may be a bit of a stretch, but what if these four things are really far apart?  Maybe the place where we have to dig IS small split three winged and slight!  Yo wilhouse wanna check? I always thought that the four things were small split three winged and slight.  but it could be what the dig site looks like. Maybe they are trees?  or maybe the trees are the same (birches ) like four oaks, which would make them alike, they could be small forked trees (small, split), but three winged and slight, maybe the three wings are very short or small (slight) I have a very good feeling about this theory.

AND I AM ASSUMING THAT THE TRAIN WITH THE NUMBER 982 IS VISIBLE FROM THE CASQUE SITE.  THAT WOULD EXPLAIN THE "THERE'S THE SPOUT! A WHISTLE SOUNDS" (WHOO WHOO!!!!!!!!!!!!!) WHAT WE TAKE TO BE OUR STRONGEST TOWER OF DELIGHT FALLS GENTLY IN DECEMBER NIGHT,  MAYBE THIS IS AN INSCRIPTION ON A PLAQUE IN THE PARK.  OR AT LEAST PART OF IT. I THINK WE WILL FIND THIS ONE NOW. LET'S GO WILHOUSE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

consensus holds that the whole tower of delight line refers directly to a work by Herman Melville thereby leading us into Hermann Park.

some thoughts and responses: the 982 train is NOT visible from where I think the casque is. The train is in the park proper, the CZ is probably 1/3 mile away, through the zoo. the line from Pierre (tower of delight) is not on any plaque in the park, and I have no evidence that it was. there are certainly trees everywhere in the CZ, some are huge.  I have posted photos of what they looked like 20 years ago, and not sure I can tell what three winged is or was. there's the spout can be many things, I have taken it to mean the Brownie the Elf fountain spout, but it could be other things. as for whistle, right across the street is the nabisco cookie factory, which blows a whistle several times a day. the CZ is also in the medical center and ambulances go by all the time. wilhouse

Maybe one tree is small, one is split, one is three winged (or split three ways), and one is slight (thin). The reason that they are alike is because they are all trees. What do you guys think?

regulus wrote:: Maybe one tree is small, one is split, one is three winged (or split three ways), and one is slight (thin). The reason that they are alike is because they are all trees. What do you guys think? Unknown: In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight I think you keep reading the poem as saying "three-winged" as a single adjective.  It is really two words, and can be interpretted in several ways. (a) in the center of 4 identical (or similar) things (b1) these things may be small, and spread apart -- separate, not that each is itself a split item --or (b2) something else is small, now [you are to] split, leave, go, take another path... (c) three [of the four of them are] winged... It's all in the pauses.  Poetry packs an entire paragraph of meaning into a single word, sometimes.

I've of course thought about this a lot, especially while standing in the CZ. IMO, the best fit to this is the little cinder block statues that used to be in the CZ and can be seen in the pictures. I can only find three of them in the photos, but there's more there.  They are alike, some look like they have wings, some are "fat" some "slight" or thin. Otherwise, I don't know. All we can do it look at the old photos and try to guess. wilhouse

Some thoughts on Houston, after rereading the entire V1 thread today. 1. The disrupted stones in P8 may be a clue that one has to dig under stones. I can picture BP visiting the center of the four (alike) compounds in the Houston CZ, carefully removing some of the smaller granite stones, burying his casque, and then replacing them just like he found them. My point is that the casque need not be buried directly beneath one of the five (?) holes. 2. We have all been assuming that the quote from Pierre refers either to snow or to a leaf, because the quote goes "What we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event—the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather." Besides a leaf, there is one other object in this sentence that falls gently, and one likely to be found in a zoo - a feather. 3. I had forgotten that there is (was?) a geyser in Hermann Park. Precisely where was it, and does it still exist? Minus trees, would it have been visible from the CZ? If so, perhaps line-of-sight limitations can help narrow down the casque's location. It would seem exceedingly coincidental to bury a treasure within sight of a geyser, use the word "spout" in the verse, and have them be unrelated. 4. Wilhouse - in August, 2005 you were trying to get copies of the original CZ blueprints. They had been sent to Seattle at the time. Am I alone in thinking these could be extraordinarily helpful , and should be pursued with all due diligence? 5. Anyone still interested in placing an ad in the Houston Chronicle classifieds asking for early 1980s photos of the CZ? Would the Hermann Park official website be willing to post something?

Again, I dont think we need to find what it is that falls gently blah blah blah.  I am convinced that this line "only" was used for us to find the author who penned that line which lead us to Hermann Park.  Similar to the "dauntless and inconquerable" (forgive me, I dont have my book at hand) line which lead us to the Wright Memorial plaque stating that.

Well, okay... but the geyser , fox, the geyser . There's the spout!

hmmm...the quote from the Wright's Memorial:  ""In commemoration of the conquest of the air by the brothers Wilbur and Orville Wright conceived by genius achieved [glow=red,2,300]by dauntless resolution and unconquerable faith[/glow]."  Not exactly like our V11:  "To achieve By dauntless and inconquerable Determination"  but yet close enough to locate our site.  If Fenix is correct, then what exactly or where exactly does {inconquerable Determination} instead of {unconquerable faith} lead us? I will stubbornly stick to my guns and think that part of the quote simply got us to Hermann Park

The rules aren't necessarily transferable between casques. We have no confirmation that what works for one will work for the others.

I never preposed that.  But, we do have 2 (if not 3) instances of similar things....  Wright Memorial, Melville work & possible "dark forest" on sign at Elizabethan Gardens.  It may not be in all but we cant discount it yet.

1. The stones in the center of the CZ (which is where I originally thought it would be, as it's a perfect spot) are cemented in place and always have been.  It could still be there, but I looked in the holes already. 2. Sheesh FB, there's lots of feathers in a zoo! remember that this was effectively a petting zoo, so there were birds everywhere... 3. yes there was a geyser. it was in the lake, probably 1/3 to 1/2 mile from the CZ.  I just don't know if you could have seen it from the CZ, I've heard it was tall, but there's tons of foliage and trees between the two spots. 4. I have not forgotten the blueprints, and I will renew my request for them. 5. I placed ads on free bulletin boards in the houston area and on chron.com the paper's site and only got one email from a woman who had no pictures. wilhouse

Thank you, wilhouse. I am definitely in the camp that believes "veers" refers to the aquatunnel, and that the casque is somewhere in the CZ. But let's say we've all been wrong about that. How might we otherwise interpret the verse? Fortress north Cold as glass Friendship south Take your task To the number Nine eight two It's pretty clear that this gets us to the former 982 location, regardless of what the fortress is, what is cold, or what Friendship refers to. Okay, now what? Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers Don't know about the wood no lion fears, but let's say for the sake of argument that In the sky the water veers refers not to the aquatunnel, but to the geyser. Not as riddly, I know, but bear with me. If that's true, then the wood might refer to trees, maybe a grove of them in Hermann Park near the lake with the geyser. Perhaps actually being there in 1981, we would have seen and understood why no lion would fear it. Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost Miniature train? Or perhaps there was a bridge over part of the lake, with large goldfish (small of scale) everywhere. In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight This is our locator for the square yard of dirt. Outside the CZ, "four alike" probably refers to four trees of the same species, but of different shapes - one small, one split into two trunks, one with three trunks, and another small (slight) one. What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight A reference to Pierre , which only serves to draw us to Hermann Park. Falls gently In December night Okay, if this isn't a reference to something that comes after the quote in Pierre , we have to assume it's a reference to something at or near the casque site. Since this hypothetical location is not in the CZ, what could it refer to? Without oddly-named llamas to distract us, it is obviously snow, or something with snow in its name, or something that is very like snow. Not a leaf (they fall in autumn). Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! Looking back from where we came (i.e., back toward the lake), we can see the geyser we passed earlier. A whistle sounds. Another reference to the train? If this is correct (and I don't think it is, but I'm trying to think ouside the box), we have a path to follow. Start at the 982 train, walk through some trees toward the geyser, cross a bridge (or maybe some tracks) and keep walking until you get to a cluster of four trees with a well-defined center. Dig. Now tear it up.

forest_blight wrote:: Through the wood No lion fears Don't know about the wood no lion fears forest_blight wrote:: Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost Miniature train? forest_blight wrote:: In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight This is our locator for the square yard of dirt. Outside the CZ, "four alike" probably refers to four trees of the same species, but of different shapes - one small, one split into two trunks, one with three trunks, and another small (slight) one. forest_blight wrote:: What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight A reference to Pierre , which only serves to draw us to Hermann Park. Falls gently In December night Okay, if this isn't a reference to something that comes after the quote in Pierre , we have to assume it's a reference to something at or near the casque site. Since this hypothetical location is not in the CZ, what could it refer to? Without oddly-named llamas to distract us, it is obviously snow, or something with snow in its name, or something that is very like snow. Not a leaf (they fall in autumn). I think this has GOT to be a play on words, like a pun.  There is probably a word or phrase with "wood" in the name, that for some reason no lion fears it.  For example, an old riddle is "What room has no walls, no floor, and no door?"  The answer is a mushroom.  Get it?  "The wood no lion fears" is _______wood, or something along those lines.  We just have to solve the riddle. I do not see how "small of scale" could be anything but the miniature train.  It is right there in the zoo, and BP would have to somehow reference it. Wilhouse, sorry for the dumb questions, but can you again explain how far it is (or rather, was) from the 982 train to the miniature train?  Also, what was in between?  Is there anything you pass that has the word "wood" in its name? Yes, this is indeed the treasure spot.  I would think that "slight" or "three winged" would be a rather odd way to describe a tree.  I thought the statues found in the park held a lot of promise on this.  Sorry again, Wilhouse, but did you dig where the statues were? Those 2 llamas named Snowflake and Pierre, if they did exist, fit this verse exactly. So Wilhouse (and anyone joining him), what is the CZ dig status at this point?

Here are some train links for those not helping Wilhouse dig.... hxxp://www.trainweather.com/hermannparkrailroad.html hxxp://abclocal.go.com/ktrk/story?secti ... id=3221943 The '982' and the start of the minature train (station) are at the entrance to the Zoo.  Along with the Image representations of the animal totems, I can not see how we would be led anywhere outside of the zoo. The 'no lion fears' while cryptic, also firmly establishes us within the zoo. 'No line fears' could (for what ever reason) be a referecne to the Cowardly Lion of the Wizard of oz (he did use a baum referecne in another verse) So, why did the cowardly lion become couragous?

Trohn - Playing devil's advocate, I can read the entire verse and never set foot in a zoo, children's or otherwise. We have just as much evidence that the lines Through the wood / No lion fears take us into the zoo as into somewhere else in Hermann Park. The poles' presence in P8 doesn't necessarily mean the casque is there with them. JJP used architectural details from the Chicago water tower even though it was several blocks away from where the casque was buried.

Another "out there" suggestion. If December night is a reference to Shakespeare's Twelfth Night , then we should ask what falls gently in it. Orsino: " For women are as roses, whose fair flower Being once display'd, doth fall that very hour. " Are / were there prominent rose displays in Hermann Park?

ahhh, love that line of thought FB.  Leave it to you to gleen that one...great!

Here is a link to the architecture firm that designed the park for a large part of the ast century. hxxp://www.asla.org/awards/2005/05winne ... y_556.html If you click the second link down left, you can see the whole park as it existed in 1950. Here also is a history of the development and when it took place... hxxp://www.hermannpark.org/documents/st ... rticle.htm hxxp://www.chron.com/content/chronicle/ ... rmann.html

through the wood no lion fears: My brother lived in King(s)wood, a suburb of Houston. I do not know if this is relevant, but it is an idea.

wilhouse directing his crew in Hermann Park: Just kidding! But I wonder if these guys encountered any mysterious plastic cubes while laying pipes...

Trohn, one of those links of yours yielded this: "Zoo service buildings have spilled outside the enlarged oval of 1949 and the front gates have been demolished and replaced by the intrusive Kipp Aquarium, built in 1980-1982 with a bequest from Herbert A. Kipp. The Kipp Aquarium sits astride the main axis on the south shore of the Grand Basin, which was reshaped between 1981 and 1982. The master plan proposes that the Reflecting Basin be filled and that the formal promenade between the Sam Houston Monument and the Pioneer Memorial Shaft become an irregularly bounded, picturesque ramble. Parking and service facilities are spotted about the perimeter of the park forming yet another barrier between it and the surrounding city." "Since 1973 additions and alternations not contemplated in the master plan have occurred. The Chinese Teahouse and Garden were constructed along Hermann Drive at the south end of Crawford Street. In 1980 the Cravens Walkway—a network of paths intertwined between berms, raised planting beds and seating areas—was constructed in the Esplanade south of Sunset Boulevard to the designs of Joel Brand and Associates. Between 1980 and 1982 the Hermann Hospital Estate sponsored the construction of a memorial to George H. Hermann at the corner of Fannin Street and Outer Belt Drive, which consisted of Lonnie Joe Edward's standing bronze figure of Hermann set in a fountain display surrounded by a granite-paved court." It sounds as if some major landscaping was going on in 1981, when BP buried the casque in Hermann Park. Shovels would not appear amiss. Also, I noticed that the "Cravens Walkway" is mentioned. "Craven" means "cowardly," which may tie into our no lion fears . I was not aware there was a statue of Hermann in the park, but there is. I found pictures of it on flickr.com. It's possible the Melville reference is referring to the Hermann statue specifically, rather than the park.

I find myself once again trying to rethink this V.  Although it seems most logical, what if we are not suppose to connect the "four alike" with the four descriptors "small, split, Three winged and slight".  Maybe it should be more like this: Perspective should not be lost In the center of four alike This sure would make finding four alike much easier...it could include four things exactly alike or something like 4 trees. ... or even fountains: #67 of the 101 things to do in Hermann Park is "Run through the four interactive fountains at the Molly Ann Smith Plaza". In the center of these 4 alike is an obelisk...can that be used somehow?  Just more random thoughts, thats all. ...if this is indeed the case, then our Small, split, Three winged and slight may be describing one and only one thing that is found in the park.  (or) perhaps these 4 words are used in a completely different manner like finding 4 synonyms for the words and using the 1st letter of each word to make a 4 letter word such as Kipp, Lake, Golf, etc....  who knows? The page this was found on was in an oriental language but I believe this to be our state of Hermann...

forest_blight wrote:: wilhouse directing his crew in Hermann Park: Just kidding! But I wonder if these guys encountered any mysterious plastic cubes while laying pipes... What about an ad in the local paper.  You never know.  If a construction worker did find it one day many years ago, and happens to see the ad (or perhaps someone who he told about it), you may get a call.  "Hey, I did find something back in '91.  I still have it."

"Through the wood No lion fears" I have seen many references (media/map/guides) that describe the zoo as a 'jungle'  (Saturday night in the jungle) If the lion is 'king of the jungle', he would have no fear. (As one is at the '982' train, 'through the wood' (or to the jungle) would seem a very obvious next step. "Perspective should not be lost" I haven't seen anyone else explain this phrasing so I will reinterate my thoughts. After passing by the lion exhibit, one is directed to: (1) water veers, (2) small of scale, (3) step across making the assumptions of the (1) aqua tunnel (2) children's zoo (3) bridge The 'perspective' that we are now in is that of a child. (a small zoo in a larger zoo) At this pharse, the closest buidling (past the bridge) should be the 'find you lost child/security' building. (next to the often mentioned 'party building) So if one literally 'loses one's perspetive' then they would find them at the lost and found center. This phrase more than anything else confirms this present location.  (and we are back with Wilhouse and his present theory) Also, keep in mind, the 1981 location of Brownie the Elf fountain/wishing pond.

Egbert wrote:: I think this has GOT to be a play on words, like a pun.  There is probably a word or phrase with "wood" in the name, that for some reason no lion fears it. Zebrawood?  Any of that around the zoo?  Or, how about:  "You'll have NO LION FEARS because they're all in cages"? Hey catherwood, do lions fear you or not? :-)

forest_blight wrote:: Are / were there prominent rose displays in Hermann Park? Actually, there's a huge rose garden just north of Hermann park, I believe.  (I haven't visited it in 10-12 years though.)

IN THE CENTER OF FOUR ALIKE SMALL SPLIT THREE WINGED AND SLIGHT          FOUR ALIKE = FOUR TREES SMALL = SMALL TREE SPLIT = SPLIT TREE THREE WINGED = TRI TRUNKED TREE SLIGHT = THIN TREE THESE TREES PROBABLE MAKE A PERFECT SQUARE! WILHOUSE!  LOOK AROUND AND FIND THAT SQUARE AND WE WILL HAVE (what is left of it) ANOTHER CASQUE!!!!!!!!!

forest_blight wrote:: Reg- feel free to point out the spot...

how do we know that it is there?  and BTW what is the cz?

regulus wrote:: how do we know that it is there?  and BTW what is the cz? Reg- CZ is City Zoo (the name of the zoo in Herrmann park Houston) The lower photo shows a 'totem pole' that matches up identically to the pole in the image with the rhino top. The pole in the image with the globe top matches up with the light posts of the top photo. While these poles in the zoo were not unique, it does inidcate that if you find the correct ones, you can orientate yourself to the burial spot. Wilhouse can speak more on this from his personal surveys.

small, split, three-winged and slight could refer to the purple hopseed bush (dodonaea viscosa purpurea) which does grow all over the south and southwest. Its leaves and seeds are as described. Perhaps there is a place these bushes were planted at your zoo. ck

Unknown: The pole in the image with the globe top matches up with the light posts of the top photo. While these poles in the zoo were not unique, it does inidcate that if you find the correct ones, you can orientate yourself to the burial spot. actually, the poles are fairly unique. the wood totems are NOT anywhere else in the zoo at all.  the light poles with the round globes are only in one other place in the zoo, at the concession stand in the middle of the zoo. there is no other place that matches up besides the CZ, which Preiss confirmed was the correct location. wilhouse

Hey all, I typed FORTRESS NORTH into google and it led me to the following Wikipedia entry.  It makes me wonder if this could be the verse for Canada.  Probably not but I thought I would throw the possibility out there. digger7 Fortress North America is a term used both during the Second World War and more often in the Cold War to refer to the option of defending Canada and the United States against their enemies if the rest of the world were lost to them. It was viewed only as a last-ditch option in case Europe and Asia were overrun by the fascists or Communists. At the outset of the Cold War there were some, especially in the United States, who supported the isolationist idea of fortifying North America and abandoning international involvements. This option was rejected with the formation of NATO and the decision to permanently station troops in Europe. During the Cold War significant planning and effort went into developing continental defense systems just in case. Most notable were the formation of NORAD and the setting up of radar lines in the Canadian Arctic. Canadians were long concerned that the adoption of a Fortress North America strategy involving close intergovernmental links and the loss of outside links would inevitably result in the nation's absorption by the United States. In the aftermath of the September 11th attacks the idea of Fortress North America has been revived as a strategy of keeping both nations safe from terrorism while keeping the Canada/U.S. border undefended and open to trade.

Hey all, I found this at hxxp://www.houstonjaycees.org/OperationChooChoo.aspx With all due respect to wilhouse, I hope that this isn't the 982 in verse 1. Houstonians Invited to Welcome Engine 982 to its New Home Operation Choo Choo II Dedication Ceremony The Houston Junior Chamber of Commerce Foundation is inviting everyone to welcome Steam Engine 982 to its new home at a dedication ceremony April 11. The symbol of Houston’s legacy as “the city where 17 railroads meet the sea” was moved to its new location at 600 Avenida de las Americas just outside Minute Maid Park last summer. The engine and tender car were re-located from Hermann Park to Downtown in a painstaking move that saw the train lifted onto a large vehicle that carried it slowly to its new home near the former Union Station. Engine 982 was owned jointly by the Jaycees and the City of Houston before it was moved. The Jaycees have now taken over ownership of the train and want to officially welcome her to her new home. The Jaycees’ Operation Choo Choo II Dedication Ceremony begins with Track and Ties Family Fun at 5:00 p.m. It is free to the public. Junction Jack from the Astros will welcome everyone as the St. Thomas Jazz Lab Band and the Incarnate Word Falcon Dancers perform. Marble Slab Ice Cream and St. Arnold’s Brewery Root Beer will help keep the crowd cool. And for the first time in over 30 years, the public will be allowed into Engine 982’s gates to see firsthand the train that symbolizes Houston’s past. Before its move Downtown, Engine 982 was cleaned up, had minor repairs and was painted. At 6:00 p.m., the Bells and Whistles Dedication Ceremony will begin. Speaking at that event will be Congresswoman Sheila Jackson Lee, Mayor Bill White, Mayor Emeritus Louie Welch, Former KPRC-TV newsman Ray Miller, former Texas Secretary of State Geoff Connor, Janice Harrison, leader of the Jaycee’s effort to move Engine 982 and members of Boy Scout Troop 498 who applied the locomotive’s rust inhibitor. Mayor White and former Mayors Welch and Lanier will officially dedicate the train’s new home.

digger7 wrote:: With all due respect to wilhouse, I hope that this isn't the 982 in verse 1. It is certainly the 982 in Verse 1. But that's okay, because we know where it was situated in the early 1980s.

and ironically where it was in the early 80's was not where it was in the 90's, so it's moving is almost irrelevant. wilhouse

ONE STEP AWAY, THE FOUR ALIKE ARE TREES I TELL YOU!!!!!!!!!!!    ONE IS SMALL, ONE IS SPLIT, ONE IS THREEWINGED AND ONE IS SLIGHT.

what's a three winged tree? ok, say you are correct. look at the photo of the CZ in 1982 that I posted online.  No trees fit that description. wilhouse

hmmm, interesting..... a Winged Elm Tree hxxp://www.cornerstonetreefarm.com/vege ... %20009.JPG If it isnt trees (and forgive me if this has been beaten to death before,...it has been so long) could these 4 alike be buildings around the dig site? after re reading the V, how could they say "four alike" then describe them as very different? let's just all pitch in a little (more like a lot) of money, buy Hermann Park and dig til our hearts delight until we find this dang thing...

fox wrote:: after re reading the V, how could they say "four alike" then describe them as very different? If you read this differently, especially since they are on separate lines...what he could be saying is that within 4 of the same thing (buildings, trees, park benches, who knows?), there are 4 other objects- 1 winged, 1 slight, etc. Shannon

in the CZ there were "cinder block" figures.  these figures were all different shapes and sizes. some small, some large, some slight, some look like they had "wings"... take a look at the photos I posted of the old cz, you can see them. wilhouse

Hey all, This post covers multiple verses (1, 3, 7, 12) and multiple pictures (5, 6, 7, 8 ).  There doesn't seem to be just one thread that was appropriate for this kind of post so I just posted it in all 8 threads.  So if you have read this post once you don't have to read the other 7 as they are all the same. Socrates, Pindar, Apelles Free speech, couplet, birch To find casque’s destination (Verse 4) (Lines 10, 11, 12) The word birch rhymes with verse so I think the line is supposed to read FREE VERSE, COUPLET.  Now separate the initial letters of each couplet that rhymes from the initial letters of the free verse(i.e. the lines that don’t rhyme).  You can do this for all the verses(although some of them are all free verse with no lines that rhyme), however, for reasons that I will make clear below I think the only verses that matter here are Verses 1, 3, 7, and 12.  In all the verses below I have highlighted the lines that rhyme. I will start with Verse 12 as we already know the answer for that one. Where M and B are set in stone And to Congress, R is known L sits and left Beyond his shoulder Is the Fair Folks’ Treasure holder The end of ten by thirteen Is your clue Fence and fixture Central too For finding jewel casque Seek the sounds Of rumble Brush and music Hush. So you end up with: WABTICBH which when you rearrange the letters and use the B’s as blank spaces between the words you get: CHI B WA B T or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the B’s - Chicago Water Tower.  As we all know this is the tower in Picture 5.  This also explains the use of the word Hush in the verse, BP needed a word that started with H and rhymed with Brush. On to Verse 1 Fortress north Cold as glass Friendship south Take your task To the number Nine eight two Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Looking back from treasure ground There’s the spout! A whistle sounds. So you end up with: NISPOILA which when you rearrange the letters and use the I’s as blank spaces between the words you get: NO I S I PLA or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the I’s – New Orleans Spanish Plaza.  And there is a Spanish Plaza in New Orleans. On to Verse 3 If Thucydides is North of Xenophon Take five steps In the area of his direction A green tower of lights In the middle section Near those Who pass the coliseum With metal walls Face the water Your back to the stairs Feel at home All the letters Are here to see Eighteenth day Twelfth hour Lit by lamplight In truth, be free. This time use the letters that begin the free verse lines: INTANWWFYFAETL which when you rearrange the letters and use the extra WFA as blank spaces between the words you get: FT W WAYNE F LIN A T or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the WFA – Ft. Wayne Lincoln Tower.  And there is a Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne Indiana built in 1929. And finally Verse 7 At stone wall’s door The air smells sweet Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Running north, but first across In jewel’s direction Is an object Of Twain’s attention Giant Pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. I first started anagramming this one using the same method of separating the letters that I used above and ended up with some wrong answers that wilhouse pointed out.  So I think for this one you anagram all the letters together: ATNHEFSNRIIOGGTT which when you rearrange the letters and use the G’s as blank spaces between the words you get HST G NATION G FRET or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the G’s – Houston National Forest.  This one didn’t anagram to my satisfaction as you end up with an extra I but there is a Sam Houston National Forest in Houston. Now as cool as all that was this is the really cool part and the reason that I think that this particular solution only deals with the above 4 verses.  Going back to verse 4 and using the words Socrates, Pindar, Apelles, birch along with information that we already have from the pictures(i.e. the latitudes and longitudes) you can as BP put it, “wed one picture with one verse.” Birch = 5 letters, picture 5 we know is Chicago goes with verse 12 which gives us Chicago Water Tower. Apelles = 7 letters, picture 7 we are pretty sure from the longitude and latitude is New Orleans and verse 1 gives us New Orleans Spanish Plaza. Socrates = 8 letters, picture 8 we are pretty sure from the longitude and latitude is Houston and verse 7 gives us Sam Houston National Forest. (sort of) Pindar = 6 letters, by process of elimination picture 6 goes with verse 3 which gives us Ft. Wayne Lincoln Tower. So to sum up. Verse 1 goes with Picture 7 and give us a starting location of Spanish Plaza in New Orleans Verse 3 goes with Picture 6 and gives us a starting location of Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne Verse 7 goes with Picture 8 and gives us a starting location of Sam Houston National Forest in Houston. Verse 12 goes with Picture 5 and gives us a starting location of the Water Tower in Chicago. Just some further thoughts that might not lead to anything but are rattling around in my head so I will throw them out for your consideration.  Two of the verses (9 and 11) are all free verse, nothing rhymes but there are two additional verses that do follow the free verse, couplet pattern. The first comes right before the pictures and second right after the pictures.  It is possible that some information is hidden in these two extra verses. Also if you like the idea of the number of the letters in a word indicating a picture(or a verse) then you might find this interesting.  There is only on significant instance of a one letter word in all of the verses(I know that there are various A’s in the verses but I said significant) and that is the v in verse 10.  In addition there is only one 12-letter word in all of the verses, remuneration.  I know that wonderstone’s is also 12 letters but I don’t count that one because you need to add the possessive s in order to get to 12. digger7

Interesting idea digger...but I must honestly say I don't think it applies.  Why?  Can't really give you a long drawn out answer except that it is "almost" a definite that this V (V1) leads us directly to Hermann park in Houston, TX.  Pretty much is no argument about that fact.  W/o going into all of the detail that is buried somewhere in the masses around here: "What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight" is a direct quote from Herman Melville which, not coincidently houses a famous train engine # 982.  That is pretty cut and dry.

fox wrote:: "What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight" is a direct quote from Herman Melville Yes, it is but I think if BP was trying to tell us something with this line we should look at the title of the book(Pierre: or, The Ambiguities) instead of the author to be the more relevant part.  These puzzles are full of ambiguities.  Which I actually think is the whole point of the puzzle.  I think BP wanted to make us see the ambiguities all around us and to be able to look at things from multiple perspectives.  But that is just my two cents. digger7

I like your idea of starting from the Chicago puzzle to try to reverse-engineer some sort of anagram or acrostic.  It seems like a very good thing to match up information that we know for sure with trying to figure out how that information might have been encoded. I think using anagrams is pretty inexact and subject to biases, though -- especially when you can arbitrarily assign any letter as a "blank".  You could spend hours trying to arrange the letters to fit whatever solution you have in mind.

Its been a long time since Ive been here but good to see people are still in the hunt. I managed to get a copy of the secret for about £6 and will needto have to read all the post here to see what ideas are out there. I did a quick search to see if anyone posted this before and nothing came up.In the verse "friendship south" could that just mean Texas as that its motto? Also the park has the brownie statue and in the book page 174 has werner von brownie and a picture of a space shuttle which makes me think of houson. The brownies  are likely named after Wernher von Braun said to be the father of United States space program. The picture on page 175 could also be argued to have a area of water though it could be a patch of lighter earth than the bronies are on. My thinking is thats it looks Reflection Pool in the park which has changed a lot recently see 2nd picture down hxxp://www.hermannpark.org/gallery.htm . I dont know what we are allowed to scan from the book but hopfully most of you will have a copy. Now the problem with these sort of puzzles is that its very easy to go way of track  or see things you want to see. So perhaps rest of the book has nothing to do with the hunt. I saw some other things in the book but will try to post it tomorrow as its too late tonight. One last thing I dont tihnk anyones mentioned is using hxxp://maps.live.com/ as you can get some nice over head view of the park.  I dont know how recent the picture is. There have some areas of Scotland on it which are around 4 years old. The first thing that jumped out at me when I looka t the park is what I think is the sam houston mounument  just right of museum of national science. It has 4 trees(?) around it . Yet any other picture I have of the area does not have them and the mounument even looks different. Perhaps someone who knows the area can have a look on live maps and see what they think.

Of course!!! You must be right about "friendship," geist - good call!

I was pondering different ways to parse* the verses today and this occurred to me. In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight ...could mean, of the 4 things that are alike, one of them is "small and split" and the other three are "winged and slight." This would solve the troublesome anatomical impossibility of finding a beast with three wings (where would that third wing go? on its back, like a dorsal fin??). *funny note: I tried to type P-A-R-S-E above but the dirty word filter decided that's not what I meant!

Why does this have to mean beasts? It might mean plants, paths or even buildings. Buildings have wings--and they can be "slight" (anything can be slight). My problem with this part of the verse is that it says "small" AND "slight." Why two different words to mean the same thing for the same objects?

No one's really sure what it means. But if we see the words "four" and "three" in the same 3-line stretch, it's at least possible that the "three" is part of the "four" just referred to.

forest_blight wrote:: Of course!!! You must be right about "friendship," geist - good call! well, I certainly can't tell you for sure what anything means any more, but my suspicion is that friendship south referred to "Friendship Park" which is located across the street, and due south, of the children's zoo. wilhouse

wilhouse, have you concentrated on the golf course?  12 steps from the 3rd tee? or something like that.  tea spout, tee spot i think the picture and the first lines of the poem point out the buildings like glassel and all to get you there to the park , the animals are all facing left and the golf course is behind them. have you concentrated on that area?

I looked at the golf course once, but it's scary.  People hitting little white balls everywhere.  Literally, you can't do much of anything on that side of the street without getting hit in the head!! wilhouse

Unknown: I think this has GOT to be a play on words, like a pun.  There is probably a word or phrase with "wood" in the name, that for some reason no lion fears it.  For example, an old riddle is "What room has no walls, no floor, and no door?"  The answer is a mushroom.  Get it?  "The wood no lion fears" is _______wood, or something along those lines.  We just have to solve the riddle. I found this reading thru back posts.... What about HOLLYwood? No (MGM) Lion fears Hollywood. It might be pointing to a theater, a movie house or a film. So, accordiing to a couple people, this location was confirmed by BP. Why, then, was the casque not found? And why wasn't the Wiki updated with the confirmation? Just curious.

shecrab wrote:: So, accordiing to a couple people, this location was confirmed by BP. Why, then, was the casque not found? And why wasn't the Wiki updated with the confirmation? Just curious. LOL.  I guess I'm the best one to answer this. Since we can't pinpoint the center of 4 alike, there's probably 300-500 sq feet of open space that the casque could be. If you read back, you'll see I even got a backhoe and dug around the area!! Now the CZ is flattened.  The zoo is turning it into a wildlife area. It isn't because I didn't try, that's for sure.  The ground there was hard as rock in summer and muck in the winter. Why isn't the wiki updated? Cause I'm lazy. wilhouse

Although BP confirmed Houston, did he confirm that this is the verse for Houston?

the number 982 has to be it.  the train.  i'm pretty sure he confirmed it being in the zoo...  besides the quote definitely confirms it. -regulus

Correctomundo reg.  i suppose you could discount the 982, but there is no way around the quote from herman

Thanks, Wilhouse. I wondered why it wasn't found. I guess it just has to be extremely precise sometimes. I didn't feel the chicago solution was precise at all, so maybe I was expecting the rest to be like that. Also, reading through the back posts, it isn't really clear. I looked at the pictures, the backhoe etc....good effort anyway. I suppose then there are 3 that we are certain of--this one, and Cleveland, and Chicago.

i haven't finished rereading all this, just wanted to throw this out there there's a bust of robert burns in the sculpture garden he's the guy that wrote "Auld Lang Syne", that we sing on New Year's eve, december 31st.....december night doesn't look like anything in the picture hxxp://flickr.com/photos/focalplane/387 ... 532905619/ but maybe if you look back from it you'd see the fountain... another thought...step across.... a cross...railroad crossing X sign....

c'mon guys, it's possible! the next line says "looking back".........doesn't that make you think of the old year, old friends? wilhouse???

Too depressed to respond, slaps. It's just heartbreaking that the CZ has been leveled. Now we'll never know.

leveled as in completely? so there is no hope? should we contact john jude? at least we will know for sure if our pairing was correct.

leveled flat.  I went by not too long ago and the only thing left was a couple trees. I'll try to take some shots next time I'm in the area. wilhouse

Were you present during the leveling?

wilhouse wrote:: leveled flat.  I went by not too long ago and the only thing left was a couple trees. I'll try to take some shots next time I'm in the area. wilhouse I thought they were suppose to call you to come and dig before they leveled it?

what did they do with all the animals? are they going to have another zoo? do you know anything about the sculpture garden? where was it in relation to the zoo? and the train tracks? and the fountains? i saw one picture of these kids playing in, it looked like several fountains, and the stone looked like the stone in the picture. do you know the names of those fountains? somehow i lost that picture. maybe "perspective" meant some distance from the zoo. they still have the train right? and you know where the old one was located. if everything is still there but the zoo, there is still hope, right? "what we take to be our strongest tower of delight" --could be our family and friends that we celebrate with on new year's eve. 'tho that had reminded me of a fountain with the next line "falls gently"--- i know that's the quote from Melville, but it's still part of the riddle too i think please say they didn't take out the fountains. and that there is a light post close to robert burns, i think burns is in the rose garden, was that part destroyed?

Questions, questions...let me try and answer a couple: what did they do with all the animals? are they going to have another zoo? The Children's Zoo in the Houston Zoo hasn't had animals in it since the late 90's.  It was "retired" as a CZ.  The animals are all relocated. do you know anything about the sculpture garden? where was it in relation to the zoo? and the train tracks? and the fountains? there is a sculpture garden in Hermann Park, north of the zoo itself. the train tracks run all over Hermann Park. There are many fountains all over the area, the biggest is north of the zoo. i saw one picture of these kids playing in, it looked like several fountains, and the stone looked like the stone in the picture. do you know the names of those fountains? somehow i lost that picture. no, but that'd be great info if you can find it. I'd recognize it if you did. maybe "perspective" meant some distance from the zoo. they still have the train right? and you know where the old one was located. if everything is still there but the zoo, there is still hope, right? the 982 is gone, and it's previous location was not the location in 1982. That location is actually closer to the zoo than the location before they moved it last year. it is now located at minute maid field where the Astro's play. There's always hope! please say they didn't take out the fountains. and that there is a light post close to robert burns there has been significant reconstruction at hermann park since 1982.  the original fountain is there, but the lake was significantly increased in size.  if it was near the lake with the giant fountain, then it is gone. i think burns is in the rose garden, was that part destroyed? the rose garden is still there last one: I thought they were suppose to call you to come and dig before they leveled it? they did, and I bulldozed, but didn't find it.  we just ran out of time. see my two pics below:  one of the CZ with Image 8 superimposed on it; one with the dozer! wilhouse

Wilhouse- Looking at that super imposed image again, "in the center of four alike"  could mean the totem pole as sen in the image. "small, split" could be that three in the center of the photo and if the spout - elf is as you have it super imposed, your back would be to it if ou dug at that middle tree. Just saying.

Willhouse, If you took a bulldozer to the area, there's not muchmore you can do.  Thank you for all your effort! Shseverin11

.  . which brings us back to the suggestion of contacting JJP.  since wilhouse has the photos and knowledge of this excavation, perhaps he should be our spokesman. at least JJP may let us know that we had the right pairing. he might even explain the clues. lets all decide on this before JJP gets a slew of annoying email from various hunters.

I vote "no." Why should the fact that a suspected casque site has been destroyed mean we should get new insights into the locations of other casques?

If the location image and verse were already confirmed by Preiss, then why is this going to provide any more "insight" than if the casque were found? If it had been there and found, then wouldn't that be just as much information? I vote yes. Contact him. Let's look at this realistically: this hunt is 26 years old. Only two casques were ever found, both while Preiss was still alive. Nothing has been found since, we don't know if the solutions are even extant--whether or not his estate would even honor a claim. No one really expects to get a jewel if they manage to dig one up. We're all in this only for the puzzles--not the prizes. The books aren't even in print any more. Why not use the information already gathered, and see if we can't find out if it's at least accurate?  In the case of the Houston casque, at least, where you have a definite confirmation, I don't see that it will hurt anything. New insights are exactly what are needed here.

thank you for those pictures wilhouse! and thank you for answering all those questions!  i was way out of date with stuff. i haven't had time to read everything (again) in this thread yet so i'm not quite up with all your findings. i start looking up  things as i read, and it takes so much time! i will try to find that picture again of the kids playing in the fountains. would you mind giving a quick breakdown of what you thought everything in the poem to be? like: Friendship south-----friendship pavillion the way i'm reading it......and everyone interprets it differently...and tormorrow i'll read it an entirely different way...but right now it seems to say: through the wood no lion fears....... the zoo....(you thought that too, right?)......but to me it is saying:,  go on through (or past)  the zoo so...it could still be there ...somewhere waiting for you about asking anyone about the casques......see, all this is still new to me, and i'm still finding out stuff you've all found long time ago...somehow, being given the answer isn't the same.......i think i'd rather they be hidden forever but then, i've always loved mysteries

If the group wants me to contact JJP I will do so. I had thought, from Egbert, that he didn't know much, so I didn't think he'd be much help. I'd need an email address though. Some more responses: "in the center of four alike"  could mean the totem pole as sen in the image. there were not 4 of them. I wish there were.  Even so, the "center" of three of them is where I dug "small, split" could be that three in the center of the photo and if the spout - elf is as you have it super imposed, your back would be to it if ou dug at that middle tree. it's really hard to tell, but most of that area is really ashphalt. the middle tree had a concrete bench by it. I tried to dig in there but the roots won't let you get down.  I have to go back and see if that was a tree they kept or got rid of. If they got rid of it, that might be a good place to check, if they'll let me back in, which they didn't last time I asked. OK, the poem. Fortress north -Turns out there's a  cathedral exactly north of the zoo that looks like a fortress, see photos here hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=732.270 Cold as glass - The Glassell School of Art is made of tiles that look like ice. see image above, also north of zoo Friendship south - Friendship park just south of the children's zoo Take your task To the number Nine eight two - train Through the wood No lion fears - through the zoo, past the lions In the sky the water veers - the aqua tunnel in the CZ, which has water going over your head and veers left and right Small of scale - the children's zoo is a "miniature zoo in miniature continents" Step across - go over the bridge or across the CZ Perspective should not be lost - you're now in the middle of the CZ, which looks like a zoo in miniature In the center of four alike - the phrase and the next one will be engraved on my tombstone, Small, split, Three winged and slight - What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight - Herman (Melville) and Pierre Falls gently In December night - I don't know for sure. Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout ! - the return line in the aqua tunnel (spout is a pipe) A whistle sounds . - Nabisco cookie factory down the street had a whistle at noon and 5pm. also, trainers used whistles. and traffic cops outside zoo used them Now, matching this with P8 Columns with camel and rhino are the entrance columns in CZ to various areas.  BTW, the columns are exact matches to the totem poles in the CZ, with horizontal type divisions.  This was really the first indicator to me that this was the right spot, because it's so definitive.  Pole with globe both looks like light poles with globe lights in CZ or if you stand right, there are globes around some of the building with appear to be on top of poles also around the building.  Hat on Djinn looks like hat on Brownie the Elf.  Berms in back are almost an exact replica of berms near gorilla house, just north of CZ. 30 and 95 in tree is Lat/Long of Houston. Also potenial "zoo" spelled out in tree. Star in sky looks like layout of 4 petting compounds and walkways.  Texas is outlined in the flagstones.  Cross hatching looks like railroad tracks, which looks similar to rails around the auditorium. Unknowns are poles in background, platform, raised bricks by camel, modern art looking piece (though that looks similar to gorilla house outline). There you go. wilhouse

wilhouse - I agree with everything except: 1. Friendship I think is just the motto of Texas. 2. I think small of scale is a reference to fish (which have small scales) in the aqua tunnel. 3. There are poles in the background so that they total 7 (this is the July casque).

In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight Regarding these most tormenting lines of V1, we can read them as a unit in four ways: 1. All 4 are small, split, three winged, and slight. 2. One is small, one is split, one is three winged, and one is slight. 3. One is small and split, and the other three are winged and slight. 4. All are small and split, but three are in addition winged and slight. So whatever "they" are, they are superficially "alike" (i.e., all 4 are* statues, trees, enclosures, or whatever), but are distinguishable on the basis of the next two lines. * or rather, "were." Curses!

1. Friendship I think is just the motto of Texas. ok, that works 2. I think small of scale is a reference to fish (which have small scales) in the aqua tunnel. agree, very possible 3. There are poles in the background so that they total 7 (this is the July casque). ah, so the background poles are a hint to july? interesting. this is my personal favorite:  2. One is small, one is split, one is three winged, and one is slight. If this is it, then I believe they are the small cinderblock creatures planted around the CZ (you can see them in the old photos I posted), in which case that is a confirmer of where I was digging... wilhouse

fox wrote:: .  . which brings us back to the suggestion of contacting JJP.  since wilhouse has the photos and knowledge of this excavation, perhaps he should be our spokesman. at least JJP may let us know that we had the right pairing. he might even explain the clues. lets all decide on this before JJP gets a slew of annoying email from various hunters. I say that we do ask. BP already "sort of"confirmed the area. Even if JJP can't or doesn't want to offer a lot of details, it would be nice to know that the puzzle was as solved as much as it could be and that we can cross the verse/ image off the list. As Shecrab pointed out, 26 years is a long time....

wilhouse wrote:: If this is it, then I believe they are the small cinderblock creatures planted around the CZ (you can see them in the old photos I posted), in which case that is a confirmer of where I was digging... I like that idea, too. But how could they be described as small, split, etc.? Those seem like strange adjectives to use for the statues. One had 4 "arms" on each side. I guess they might be described as wings, but there were 4 or 8 of them, depending on how you count - not 3. Here's a thought. Those cinderblock thingies were made by somebody, and despite the fact that they were cinderblock, might whoever made them be an artist / sculptor commissioned for the job? If so, I'm thinking a Native American artist local to the Houston area. Artists almost *always* keep photos of their sold works. I would like to gather together all of our photographs of those cinderblock sculptures, and then try to locate the artist and find better pictures (and placement) of the complete set.

forest_blight wrote:: On another thread, wilhouse said (almost a year ago to the day), "Here's something interesting I just found out from the zoo director at the hermann park children's zoo. There used to be statues in the childrens zoo. Two of them were statues of hawks. One of the hawks had a wing broken off. He's trying to find out when." wilhouse wrote:: I forgot all about that. I need to find some pictures and find out where they were. I just went back and read all of the V1/P8 posts out of desperation. A June, 2005 exchange between me and wilhouse: Did anything ever come of that? Am I the only one who thinks this sounds extremely promising (or would have, had the CZ not been leveled)?

Wilhouse - Thanks again for reliving your nightmares..... Perspective should not be lost I believe (with its placement in the verse) references the building used as the 'lost children center' It confirms that where you are standing, at that buiding of the CZ is within feet of the casque.

I went back through all the pictures I could find of the CZ and took out ones featuring cinderblock statues. I counted at least 11 separate statues, located in clusters of 1, 2, or 3 (maybe more). Here they are, along with a map of my best guesses for where they were located (red dots). Please correct me if I'm wrong about those or left out any photos.

fox wrote:: which brings us back to the suggestion of contacting JJP.  since wilhouse has the photos and knowledge of this excavation, perhaps he should be our spokesman. at least JJP may let us know that we had the right pairing. he might even explain the clues. lets all decide on this before JJP gets a slew of annoying email from various hunters. I vote no I am unclear as to how explicit BP was in confirming that Image 8 was paired with Verse 1 but it seems that in most of his correspondence he was usually cryptic.  So unless he explicitly confirmed this pairing I don't think it would be right for JJP to confirm it for us if he even in fact knows the correct pairing.  Part of the puzzle is to pair the image with the verse so even if the Houston casque is unrecoverable JJP confirming this pairing would necessarily help us by narrowing the possibilities for the other ones.  And I don't think that would be fair. Even if BP did explicitly confirm this pairing how would JJP know this.  I am not questioning wilhouse's integrity I am just trying to look at it from JJP's perspective.  Unless BP called him and told him that he had done this I don't think that JJP would be comfortable in making this confirmation. Even if JJP knew that the casque was buried in the CZ he most likely doesn't know the exact spot and thus cannot make a determination as to whether or not the casque is still recoverable. Again, I vote no, but it's a free country do what you like.

I'm not sure I agree with you on many fronts Digger. -Let's suppose that Wilhouse did indeed one day unearth the Houston casque...this would lead us to cross off that I/V pairing and move on to the next location.  I honestly believe that Wilhouse (with the help of so many others on this board) has found THE location for this casque.  If not right on top of it...than pretty darn close.  In my book, that casque is found...unfortunately, just not able to be retrieved.  There would be nothing wrong with JJP confirming this.  If, after opening Wilhouse's expansive email containing every imagineable pic of the area, JJP sees we have the wrong place..I am not expecting him to say "Nope...but try digging about 238 miles northwest."  If we are wrong, we are wrong.  But, if we have it right, I see nothing wrong with a confirmation. -You said "Even if JJP knew that the casque was buried in the CZ he most likely doesn't know the exact spot and thus cannot make a determination as to whether or not the casque is still recoverable."  He may not know the precise spot, within an inch or so, but I believe he knows pretty much were each casque is.  During his interview in the Cleaveland Plain Dealer after Sir Egg's find,  JJP said "Then he'd {BP} Fed-Ex me these dossiers with obscure photos and notes." when describing how BP traveled the country looking for places to bury his casques.  He could easily compare our notes and photos with the notes and photos sent by BP.

Unknown: He could easily compare our notes and photos with the notes and photos sent by BP. If he still has them. Do I remember reading that he destroyed that material?

forest_blight wrote:: If he still has them. Do I remember reading that he destroyed that material? Yes, he was contracted to destroy the documents/scraps/photos/notes once he used them for the paintings. Questioning him would be asking him to use his recall of events twenty-five years earlier. He wasn't given the thought process that BP used, he was just given a task to do - (much like Michangelo with thhe church)

but guys, don't you think the djinn is wearing a medical mask? and we have the museum of health and medical there and the cancer survivor place. did the Brownie elf have a mask? ( i know this should be in the image thread ) thank you for those pictures forest blight, they help a lot! but i'm not convinced it's in the zoo part ..( /me hides)

Man, this is fun. I love doing this. Forest, nothing ever came of the hawk thing. There just wasn't any hard evidence I could find. Now, the photos you posted.  In the one photo with three circles (posted a couple different times), the circle in the upper part of the picture is not a statue. It is the gatepost to a little fenced in area that hid the air conditioning unit for the auditorium. But yes, those are the statues.  They were original with the CZ, and generally movable. That's important, these things got moved all the time. So even the photos we have might not be the location when Preiss was there.  Some were thin, some tall, some with "wings".  Split was never a good description in my opinion.  For you newbies, check out the totems and how they look just like Image 8. I am posting some photos of my good buddy Brownie.  Check out the hat!! No mask though. Now for the exciting part. Due to everyone's questions, I emailed the Zoo Director and asked him what was going on at the CZ. He invited me out to take a look. I don't know if I'll be allowed to dig, but I'll take photos regardless.  I'll let you all know as I get more info. Finally, Preiss and I emailed several times over the course of a couple years.  When he did "confirm" the location, he told me to "dig there".  He did not say exactly where though.  He did NOT confirm either the Image or the verse, however, it was only through the words of Verse 1 and the content of Image 8 that I could get to that spot.  And he was commenting on my superimposed photo with Image 8.  Therefore, I would say, that while he did not confirm V1/I8, he confirmed my photo, which was Image 8, which I could get to only with Verse 1. whew, enough said. wilhouse

i love the pictures of the elf!  i couldn't find any, thank you! can you see the reflection pool from the zoo? those last lines...."looking back" looking back, reflecting were there stones like in the image in the zoo or the entrance? i know i'm hardheaded

look at the map forest reposted above. the CZ is at the southern tip of the zoo. The zoo is like 1/2 mile across.  The reflection pond is like another 1/4 mile north of that.  Distances are deceiving... you can't even see much of the zoo from the CZ because of the trees and bushes. the zoo itself back in 1982 had no real "entrance"  look at the photos in the link I posted in the thread. there's photos of people at a ground breaking.  it's relatively sparce.  remember, it was free, had no guards, and was open very late back then. in 1982, they were doing a lot of construction, especially around the CZ. The zoo director of that time told me that if preiss walked in with a shovel through the construction entrance no one would have stopped him. wilhouse

Fox-- regardless of how closely the Landmarks/image/verse match is to your eyes, the fact that a cask hasn't been dug up in HPCZ means that it was NOT found.  Still, assuming that the 25 years of construction work destroyed it, then yes we can cross it off.  We can also cross off any that are believed to be in New Orleans and surrounding area, because if it isn't buried under tons of rubble, or sunk further into the sampish muck by Katrina, then your physical safety will be in danger trying to find it (because you WILL be attacked or killed if you were to dig and explain about the treasure, or even wander around with a shovel).  That means that there may only be 8 left.  If the one in Milwaukee is by the NP lighthouse (which I don't believe for one second), then who knows how long we have before erosion takes it into the Lake; the lighthouse was moved 100 feet back from the shoreline because one day, sixteen feet of the front yard fell onto the shores below.  Also, if the soil is too rocky in that area, then digging even three feet would be impossible without a pick.  Given that this structure is placed on top of a waterfront cliff, I think this is a safe bet.  Golden Gate Park?  Flooding and earthquakes=goodbye.  Montreal?  Who knows.  St. Louis?  Mississippi River flooding=goodbye.  Anywhere on a beach, or near a coast?  Thank you Global Warming, the tides are messed up, and hurricanes have battered the edges of the country into near-unrecognizability.

Kuh-Lai-Bah-Ti wrote:: Fox-- regardless of how closely the Landmarks/image/verse match is to your eyes, the fact that a cask hasn't been dug up in HPCZ means that it was NOT found.  Still, assuming that the 25 years of construction work destroyed it, then yes we can cross it off.  We can also cross off any that are believed to be in New Orleans and surrounding area, because if it isn't buried under tons of rubble, or sunk further into the sampish muck by Katrina, then your physical safety will be in danger trying to find it (because you WILL be attacked or killed if you were to dig and explain about the treasure, or even wander around with a shovel).  That means that there may only be 8 left.  If the one in Milwaukee is by the NP lighthouse (which I don't believe for one second), then who knows how long we have before erosion takes it into the Lake; the lighthouse was moved 100 feet back from the shoreline because one day, sixteen feet of the front yard fell onto the shores below.  Also, if the soil is too rocky in that area, then digging even three feet would be impossible without a pick.  Given that this structure is placed on top of a waterfront cliff, I think this is a safe bet.  Golden Gate Park?  Flooding and earthquakes=goodbye.  Montreal?  Who knows.  St. Louis?  Mississippi River flooding=goodbye.  Anywhere on a beach, or near a coast?  Thank you Global Warming, the tides are messed up, and hurricanes have battered the edges of the country into near-unrecognizability. Wow.. you'd have thought he didn't read all of the posts.

global warning? you have got to be kidding! if you think all of our years, yes years, of research is rubbish then why are you even here? wait, i know why we havent found a casque  (minus the one we did find in cleveland)it is because foxes are bad luck.

fox wrote:: global warning? you have got to be kidding! if you think all of our years, yes years, of research is rubbish then why are you even here? wait, i know why we havent found a casque   (minus the one we did find in cleveland)it is because foxes are bad luck. all right, take this to another thread!!! wilhouse

I didn't say the research done was rubbish-- just that some of the inferences made were too matter-of-fact for my liking when nobody has dug up a casque.  But global warming has had an effect on the weather, one which wasn't exactly prevalent in the 80's.  I was merely objecting to scott's inference that BP would have buried somewhere that was unlikely to be struck by a hurricane, because no one could have known what would happen when Katrian exploded into the Gulf area.  Were there plans on display at the Houston Zoo saying that in 25 years massive amounts of construction work would re-arrange the zoo?

wilhouse, when you go back to visit, could you please find this, i can't find where it is located: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/jremigio/72659182/ silent night, it was written by a monk named herman, and it's a xmas song (december:) i am just trying to figure out the last part of the poem. and then i would be done, i think i promise i hope

When I lived in San Antonio, I discovered that the Germans had a HUGE influence on Mexico; it seems like everywhere, especially near the Riverwalk, there is heavy old-world German stuff.  For example, they celebrate Kindelnacht festivals every single December... Interestingly, this is also why Mexican music (mariachi) sound so much like Polka, not to mention why they even have Beer in the first place (Corona, Dos Equis, Tecate, etc.).  The German in that picture reads: "Silent Night, Holy Night, All is calm, all is bright"  The rest of the song goes: "Round young virgin, mother and child, holy infant, so tender so mild, sleep in heavenly peace, slep in havenly peace."  Is that helpful, Slappy?

I do not believe that that is a permanent exhibit. During Xmas time, there are a lot of temporary exhibits for the Xmas season. Yes, I recognize the words (2 years of German in HS) as Silent Night in German. I do not believe it's anywhere to be found, nor do I believe it was there in 1982... wilhouse

Sure; Germany left a lot in Texas.  I agree about the monument, it's probably not old enough.

typler, i knew the song lol, but that was interesting about the mexican music and the german influence) and thank god for the beer! (or the germans, or whoever!) wilhouse, it seemed to have all the parts, herman (since he was referenced) and december night. oh, well, maybe it's just the george h. hermann statue over close to the zoo. thank you

wilhouse, i have to get these ideas out or i'll bust, i read about snowflake that was in the zoo, but these are the only other references to snow that  i can find in the park. in the japanese gardens: "In the north part of the garden is another yukimi or snow viewing lantern (that's irony - a yukimi in Houston! r.c.) and an arbor. Beneath the lantern is snow mound spirea and overshadowing it is a snowbell tree. When the snowbell tree is dropping its blossoms, it resembles a winter scene in which snow is falling on the lantern. Across the path is an arbor surrounded by iris. Many people come to this iris arbor to rest and view the scene across the garden." ---- from the Japanese Garden Society of Houston web site it has a small pond with fish look how close it is to the 4 fountains: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/corwin_i/10248 ... 248200577/ and it has a waterfall too i guess this could be a snowflake design: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/outerspace/179 ... set-41913/ and then the snow cones, near the playground and lake. hxxp://www.ruf.rice.edu/~ricerail/daytrip/hermann.htm and the atropos key, i keep it in mind because of the meaning of "what we take to be our strongest tower of delight" atropos was the goddess of fate, and the cutter of the thread of life, or something like that perspective should not be lost"  could be the overlook k, i'm done

slappybuns wrote:: k, i'm done Slappy, don't be done. Keep it up. I love and encourage new thoughts. I only shoot them down when I have proof they are wrong. Someone might come across something that helps us figure stuff out. DO NOT BE DISCOURAGED.  You at a disadvantage.  Egbert, Fox and I, we've been at the hunt for years, decades. But sorry, the Japanese garden was dedicated in 1992, and not there when Preiss was around.  Also, it's a good 3/4 mile north of the CZ. hxxp://www.houstontx.gov/parks/japanesegarden.html wilhouse

thank you wilhouse i keep thinking i'm out of ideas, then something else pops into my head. the image has the mecom fountain, that got you to that park. and the zoo animals. i figured that was the golf course in the back, but maybe it is the lake. after the aquatunnel: step across--------beyond, opposite in the center of four alike-----2 small, split---forks, separate, divide three winged-----quick, express,immediate,------ or disabled, wounded and slight-------outside, off, small------------cut dead--------------overlook so we have : step beyond, two small forks, three immediate ??, outside, lol i also had the idea of homonyms, like step meaning gait/gate or stair/stare gate across or stare across (or stare beyond) falls gently, could be "leaves", like in "exits" , and since it's after the melville quote, the exit w/the statue of hermann or the hermann hospital the only thing i don't see in forest's  pictures are the stone walkway or stone wall and the base things at the bottom of the poles december could be 12:00, or straight ahead

Three winged could also refer to a building that has three distinct 'wings,' or sections... For example, similar to the Mirage in Las Vegas...  A small hospital maybe?  Like a veterinary clinic?

you're right typler, i was trying to think of it in a different way than had been mentioned, like the building wings or something with 3 wings. the step across could also be step over RR crossing. in the middle of four alke could also be like the four fountains, or four of anything instead of "2" like this in the sculpture garden: these sculptures by Matisse are called Back I, Back II, Back III and Back Iv hxxp://flickr.com/photos/92663783@N00/1 ... otostream/ perspective---- 1. a technique of depicting volumes and spatial relationships on a flat surface. 2."a visible scene esp. one extending to a distance 3. the facts known to you", 4. or a child's view or does it mean "vision" like dick dowling's binoculars,

Wilhouse, i was just reviewing some VERY old posts of yours describing your emails to and from Byron. one said his response to you was 'dont dig there'  .    where in herman park was that?

Fox, well, that was old.  It was one of my very first attempts, before I narrowed the choice down to the zoo. It was in an empty lot near the Meecham fountain, about 1/2 mile north of the zoo (not the CZ, but the zoo entrance). In hindsight, it had none of the clues in it, but hey, I had been looking for months and really wanted to dig somewhere.  Since that was private property, there was at least some chance of being arrested, and Preiss saved me that indignity... Of course, now that lot has a house on it! ml

We were close on this one. Where I think the forum got off track on this one was going into the zoo and staying there. I probably would of too; it is a huge zoo and probably contains a good amount of tempting features. Fortress north Cold as glass As I believe was already found here, Houston Museum of Natural Science and Cockrell Butterfly Center. Friendship south Texas Medical Center is south of the park; I believe the first three lines are bracketing the park. This wide perspective makes continues more later in the verse when we step outside the park briefly. Take your task To the number Nine eight two The once present 982 locomotive you guys found. Through the wood This is an image that aerial photos don’t do justice. While looking from ground level this is more perceptible. No lion fears Pass the zoo and continue south. In the sky the water veers I like this one. “In the sky”; I kept trying to understand what was meant by this line. At one point I decided to broaden my search, so I zoomed out on Live Search Maps and scanned the whole park. Since this “travel” verse had a southward direction I worked toward the south side of the park. And then I caught on the edge of my screen the “water”. Sure enough there was some pretty good veering going on. It wasn’t the water that was supposed to be in the sky, it was us! From the sky looking down it was it was Brays Bayou that was doing the veering. But I was thinking “Why put another general area park clue in the verse after we already have two huge landmarks with Houston Museum of Natural Science and Texas Medical Center. This made more sense later when I found the final spot at the very southern edge of the park (the closest to Brays Bayou). Here is a wide aerial picture of the area. Small of scale The rest of the verse is zeroing in on the final spot. This is the Major Richard Dowling Monument (our final spot). Compared to the huge Pioneer Monument up north in the park this is certainly “small of scale” Step across This is the first time we have to leave the grass of the park for a little. Step across in the street you have to get across to the monument in the center strip. Perspective should not be lost “Perspective” can be the key word here. We have two perspectives already in the verse. One perspective is from ground level, the other is from the sky. And we are told not to lose that perspective. We are to apply that perspective to the next three lines. In the center of four alike This is the Pioneer Monument we passed earlier. As most of you know, it is centered in the middle of four identical fountains. This may be our ground perspective. Small, split, Three winged and slight These two lines are the object we are comparing to the Pioneer Monument. We need to switch to the sky perspective. Looking down on the Dowling Monument area we can a similarity to the Pioneer Monument. In addition we have the matches of the islands being “split” by the roads, a quantity of “three” and slender (“slight”). Perspective could also simply mean big monument and small monument. Both work, your pick. What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night This is a final spot reference. Simply, the Major Dowling Monument is our treasure location. The last two of the four lines is a reference to the color of the monument; snow should be our solution for “Falls gently In December night” and the color of the monument is white. Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! A whistle sounds. We need a side of the monument to dig on. These lines point to the side toward a fountain and a train. I am guessing the northeast side is the dig spot. Any thoughts on which side? I think that’s about all Turtle and we have on Verse 1.

The Pioneer monument was moved to its current location in 2003. Prior to that, it would have been elsewhere.

Wilhouse: When you were in the zoo, where were the camels? Did you ever take any photos of their area?

Sonoran, A technical question.... How did you manage to embed all of those fabulous photos in one message? (always ready to learn more about these computers...) AP

shecrab wrote:: Wilhouse: When you were in the zoo, where were the camels? Did you ever take any photos of their area? I did, and I'd have to go back to my archives to find them, but they were generally located in the front of the zoo, on the side noted by the totems in image 8. As for all those cool pics posted by Sonoran, they're great!  But in general, all that stuff, the fountains, the roads, the lake, the water, all new.  Most in the last 5 years.  None of that was there in 1982. ...it was easy to find that the Cockrell Butterfly Center opened in 1994. I hate to point out that Preiss told me that digging in the CZ "would not be a waste of my time", which was the most positive thing he said to me in 3 years of conversation with him... wilhouse

Not to mention that in none of those photos does "the water veer."

that line makes me think of the Reflecting Pool.

the reflecting pool was only recently finished within the past couple of years wilhouse

fox wrote:: Correctomundo reg.  i suppose you could discount the 982, but there is no way around the quote from herman ok... just playing devil's advocate here... Herman Melville was born in New York City on August 1, 1819 Melville died at his home in New York City early on the morning of September 28, 1891. From searching wiki "Pierre" It tells the story of Pierre Glendinning, junior, the 21-year-old heir of the manor at Saddle Meadows in upstate New York. ... He and Isabel then depart for New York City Come on... I had to... after reading 31 pages of posts I think I'm going crosseyed and my brain hurts

Just messin' ... Where was that picture where BP said dig there?

I show it on page 28 hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=732.405 wilhouse

I'm not sure if this has been mentioned but "Small, split, three winged and slight" could refer to a shamrock. There is a famous hotel near Hermann Park called the Shamrock Hotel but it was paved over in 1987.  But something that might be of interest is the Dick Dowling statue actually has shamrocks engraved on each side above the inscriptions.  Each side of the statue has 6 shamrocks, 24 in total so it might not be what we are looking for, but I thought I would throw it out regardless.  You can see the shamrocks if you scroll down to the pictures below.  The site actually makes mention of them, "Notice the shamrocks above the inscriptions." hxxp://www.wikiwikiplanet.com/Dick_Dowling_Statue.html

well, I can't remember seeing anything shamrock shaped at the CZ.  The CZ is shaped more like a 4 leaf clover than a 3 leaf one. wilhouse

At this point you have to be one of the world's foremost experts on that zoo from the 70's to present.  I was just throwing it out because it was one of the few things I could think of that fit the criteria and there seems to be some significance with the shamrock in the area.

CS, I love it that you thought of something I haven't yet.  I'm hoping someday someone says something and I finally realize what that stupid sentence really means. My fear is that it points to a location between 4 of the cinderblock figures, which were movable, and we'll never figure it out... wilhouse

Someone, somewhere, has the answer to the whole thing in a moldy photo album in their garage.

or an envelope in a drawer in new york wilhouse

I always assumed that this was on the Houston Zoo Here was my take on the breaks in verse one: Small of scale Step across        (cross the bridge into the children's zoo -------------------------------------------- Perspective should not be lost  (standing in one spot, you can see the "four alike") In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight          (i always assumed that this was a description of four different types of leaves on trees, in the center of which was the dig spot) ------------------------------------------- What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently                            (Melville --> Moby Dick --> blowing water out of the spout on top of a whale, or literally:  Looks like a big tower of water, but falls gently as droplets) ------------------------------------------- In December night                  (Christmas Eve --> Santa --> elves ==>  Elf Fountain.  ie, the elf is overlooking the four trees that you dig in the center of) ------------------------------------------ Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout!                  (the elf fountain again) ------------------------------------------ A whistle sounds. (in my mind, it was always a bird chirping, because you are among all of the trees.  I know this probably isn't correct.) I was really sorry to hear of the renovation of the Children's zoo.  I'll miss working on this one.

here's another circle for you.  i was looking up more about the "what we take to be our strongest..." with melville and all..........and found he lived in new york, and that one of his poems about guiseppe gibraldi was hidden under the gariibaldi'  statue in washington square park and what caught my attention was everytime i read about gibraldi it had......1814-1871  and 14 and 71 are on image 11, the italian image, i know, i know it messes everything up, but still you never know, don't kill me, just researching hxxp://alh.oxfordjournals.org/cgi/pdf_extract/9/3/425 1st paragraph, 1st sentence hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=J9I9R_ ... rk&f=false

slappybuns wrote:: and that one of his poems about guiseppe gibraldi was hidden under the gibraldi'  statue in washington square park re-read your data, I think it says that a tribute to gibraldi was "buried" in one of melvilles poems (hidden in the words)  not hidden under the statue.

oops, that is how those sites sound, but i will look for the one that says the poem was in the glass vessel, will try to find the right one, but this site talks about the stuff hidden under the statue: "In 1970, the Garibaldi monument was moved about 15 feet to the east to allow for construction of a promenade in Washington Square. A glass vessel containing documents from the 1880s was found under the original base of the statue. The documents included newspaper accounts of Garibaldi’s death, a history of the Committee for the Monument of Garibaldi, the organization that helped place the statue, and a poster for and news clippings about the monument’s 1888 dedication." hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/164856043/ hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/washin ... ights/8712 7th paragraph ummm, scratch all that guys, can't find the site that said the poem "was" in the glass vessel........yet  ;D malted, you are right, i jumped to conclusions, here is a site that says exactly what was in the found container: hxxp://www.ci.nyc.ny.us/html/records/pd ... _part4.pdf pages 3 and 4

slappybuns wrote:: and the atropos key...atropos was the goddess of fate, and the cutter of the thread of life, or something like that fox wrote:: the columns in the P may refer to the Mecom-Rockwell fountain & Colonnade which is at the entrance to Hermann Park. I was looking at what the introduction says about this lot. They arrived on "a caravan of magic-wrought carpets". "The fabulous carpet weaving techniques of the Djinn and Peri were admired and then mastered by the people who were their neighbours". Reminded me of the Fates . "The ancient Greeks thought that the divinities knew everything including what would happen in the future. The Fates laid out a plan for each person at birth that was fixed and unchangeable. The Fates carried out the divine plan of Zeus by drawing lots and tying the resulting allotments into threads of life for each mortal born. These threads are woven together, actually knotted at different points and in different ways. Then the fabric of life is cut off at death and the end of life for that mortal." hxxp://www.fjkluth.com/fates.html I'd agree that Atropos , one of the Fates, seems a plausible interpretation, with the Miller Theatre located close to the gem in the picture...or perhaps the corresponding position beside the pillar behind, with its "bobbin" top. (The theatre was named after Jesse Wright Miller who appropriately was a "cotton broker".) hxxp://www.milleroutdoortheatre.com/past-and-present/ "In 1922, the original theater was designed by William Ward Watkin as an amphitheater surrounded by twenty Corinthian-style limestone columns " "...elder spirits of Araby, monstrous Deevs..." Deev is probably related to Diva (goddess), also used for performers. "...in the eternal whirlwinds above Persia's Mountains..." Statue of Oliver Twist. Twister...? (I know there's the zoo columns, but incidentally, these were the ones from the original Miller theatre.) hxxp://www.milleroutdoortheatre.com/art ... mann-park/

I realize this may be a lost cause, but... I may also have found the meaning of "small, split 3-winged and slight". There is a tree, grows in Australia, called Nuytsia Floribunda. It's also known widely as the Australian Christmas Tree because it blooms at Christmastime. It would be a good tree to put in a zoo for several reasons: (1) It would be fine in the Houston climate, warm and moist--this tree grows well in the same sort of conditions in Australia. (2) It would be visually interesting in the winter, a time when most foliage is not. (3) It would be a colorful bloomer--the flowers, which are prolific, cover the tree in bright clusters of yellow-orange (4) AND THIS IS THE BEST PART!!  It is SMALL--it's a parasitic tree that grows in the clefts of branches of other trees-- the flowers are SPLIT--pictures are available on line-- and the fruit is THREE-WINGED and SLIGHT. Anyone seeing this tree would be able to see these characteristics very well--at a single glance--and the tree would indeed be an attention-grabber. This tree is a native of Australia--where were the Kangaroos kept in the zoo? Or the wombats? Or Koalas?  THere may have been a place where four of these trees (Four Alike!) were shown, or grown, or kept--and they may have been kept near the Australian animal exhibit. This could pinpoint the site where the casque was buried. I know there is almost no chance of getting this casque back, but it would be nice to know if there actually were any of these trees on display at the zoo and if they were near the animals mentioned. And just for the record, this is not an "obscure" tree--it's very WELL known in Australia. This is a very real possibility.

In December Night Is BP telling us he needed to sneak onto the treasure ground at night in December when people would be least likely to notice his activities?  Does the point of this line serve the distinct purpose to inform us that there will be a high degree of visibility on the spot? Was the thing falling gently a leaf or a snowflake or a star?

Since this is the verse thread, I wanted to post my entire thought process on the verse so people can see how I got where I was. Nothing is written in stone, it's just "one person's thoughts"... Fortress north There's a church just north of the zoo / Hermann Park that looks just like a medieval fortress Cold as glass The Glassel Art institute is just south of the above church as you walk towards the zoo / Hermann Park.  The building is made up of glass blocks that look like ice. Friendship south There is a park just south of the CZ I've been told was called Friendship Park, though I've never seen that sign personally.  There's also a city south of the Park called Friendswood.  Of course the Indians who lived in Texas in their name were called the Friendly Indians. Take your task To the number Nine eight two Keep going south from Glassel and you run into the train in Hermann Park Through the wood The verse has been driving you south. If you continue south you go "through the woods" meaning the zoo No lion fears Well, if you go south through the zoo you go right by the great cats area. You have no fear because they are in a moat? In the sky the water veers Keep going south and you run into the children's zoo. The first thing you encounter is the aqua tunnel, which is underground. As you go down you look overhead and the water is above you and separates (veers) into two paths (left and right).  Once you've gotten to where the great cats area is you can no longer see any of the fountains in the park. Small of scale At this point you come up out of the aqua tunnel and are in the children's zoo, a small scale zoo. You are also at a small bridge. Note you are still heading south. Step across There is a small bridge at this point which takes you to the center of the CZ.  Could also, with the next line, mean to go across the CZ, which would be south. Perspective should not be lost Purely conjecture, but it might mean don't leave the CZ - don't leave the small of scale area.  Note that if you continue south you actually leave both the CZ and the entire zoo. In the center of four alike This is where the directions get specific and fuzzy.  I originally thought it meant to go back to the "center" of the 4 CZ zoo lands (and I've dug there and there's nothing). Others have conjectured that it's in the center of 4 "cinder block men". I just don't know. Small, split, Three winged and slight I'm going to put this on my tombstone.  Some have conjectured these 4 things are NOT the four alike. No idea What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Quote from Hermann Melville's Pierre (Preiss was a book publisher and well read as we all know). Might just be a further hint to Hermann Park. Don't know Falls gently In December night No good answer.  Once I thought it meant temperature so I dug by a thermometer that hung on the building.  Snow? There's some data that says that there was a llama named snowflake but nothing I've ever seen. The llama pen is in the same area. Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! If this points you to the location, there's two spouts you could see. One is the elf fountain which means the treasure is back there near the southern exit. The other is the spout in the Aqua tunnel, which again means that the treasure is back in that same location. A whistle sounds. If you are back in the southern exit area of the CZ, you are right by the medical center and various businesses.  There was a bread factory back there that had a whistle that blew at break and quitting time. The ambulance area of the medical center was back there. wilhouse

I think we need more period photos of the CZ. One of these days we'll find it. My money is on the "four alike" being cinderblock men in a temporary arrangement in a soil area.

Shecrab, the four lands in the CZ were North America, Latin America, Asia and Africa.  I don't remember anything that looked like that tree, but it's been a while. I'll look at my old photos. I don't believe there were any kangaroos or koalas,  but I'll review my pics. Apparenly according to the old zoo director, in 1982, the back gate was open pretty late (11pm) and they said sometimes they didn't even close it. The zoo was free and anyone could just walk in.  No sneaking needed.  Also, there was lots of construcion going on, so Preiss wouldn't even need to bring his own shovel.. wilhouse

Forest old friend good to see you. Back on page 29 is your marked up photo of those little guys.  I never found a good pic with 4 of them. You're right, there's some photo out there which will solve this hunt. wilhouse

Oh yeah, I forgot I did that! Damn fine work, if I say so myself...

I can't remember if this occurred to us before. But could "There's the spout" be a reference to Herman Melville's "Moby Dick"? "There she blows! A hump like a snow-hill! It is Moby Dick!"

Sounds rhymes with ground where blows is implied to fit the Moby Dick reference, yeah.  Why two Melville references? A group of giraffes is called a tower. hxxp://www.npwrc.usgs.gov/about/faqs/animals/names.htm Was BP using the Pierre quote to refer to the giraffes?

Fortress north / Cold as glass / Friendship south / Take your task To the number / Nine eight two START Through the wood this line pairs with the next line, but think of it separately as well No lion fears (A) Have no fear when drinking from the lions mouth fountain at entrance to CZ In the sky the water veers in the Aqua Tunnel Small of scale (C) miniature railroad path Step across / Perspective should not be lost (D) walk through the Sam Houston statue arch, staying north in a straight line In the center of four alike Sam Houston's four trees Small, split, (E) treasure ground is a small split median of ground with a couple trees Three winged and slight is the shape of Starbuck and Apollo's Viper in Battlestar Galactica, (the shape of the Sam Houston circle and offshoots) What we take to be / Our strongest tower of delight (B) after the children's zoo, take the exit that goes past the giraffes Falls gently / In December night The curtain at the Miller Outdoor Theater Looking back from treasure ground / There's the spout! Mecom Fountain A whistle sounds. People whistling at a concert for an encore. I feel that the 982 train is the best and most significant feature to start with after putting together the general sense of Melville and Zoo clues to get Hermann Park. Next walk through the forest to the childrens zoo, drink from the lion's head, walk through the aqua tunnel, then leave the CZ and head to the giraffes and then follow the little train tracks all the way around back towards the northern entrance of the park, find the perspective where everything lines up straight north and south and then step across the circle through the Sam Houston archway to the other side, and find the small split between the Fannin on the west side of the north-south line, then gain a perspective on the Sam Houston statue that matches the camel's position (yellow line) in the image from a centered south facing perspective, look back and see the Mecom fountain (blue line).  The gray line is a colonnade that might be the inspiration for using columns to define a triangle perspective that is turned slightly to represent the angle of view on the Miller Outdoor Theater which is mostly obscured by foliage except maybe in winter. -edit: I made a tiny error in the lower image by not flipping the column perspective on the theater, but that's just a matter of convention in this mixed perspective from overhead to ground...just use your imagination and see it in your minds eye.  I have verified that you can follow the mintracks around the park.  I havent for sure pinpointed the 1980-81 location of the giraffes (tower).  Anyone able to verify?

forest_blight wrote:: I can't remember if this occurred to us before. But could "There's the spout" be a reference to Herman Melville's "Moby Dick"? "There she blows! A hump like a snow-hill! It is Moby Dick!" Unknown: This midnight-spout had almost grown a forgotten thing, when, some days after, lo! at the same silent hour, it was again announced: again it was descried by all; but upon making sail to overtake it, once more it disappeared as if it had never been. And so it served us night after night, till no one heeded it but to wonder at it. Mysteriously jetted into the clear moonlight, or starlight Unknown: "What makes you a coward?" asked Dorothy, looking at the great beast in wonder, for he was as big as a small horse. "It's a mystery," replied the Lion. "I suppose I was born that way. All the other animals in the forest naturally expect me to be brave." Falls gently In December night Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! This is what Erexere has been saying, but it could be a clue for starlight as easily as snow. From Chapter 51, "The Spirit Spout"... The pic shows starlight in the shape of a cross. (Nativity reference -> December night.) In the center of four alike Given the preponderance of columns in the image, maybe the "center of four alike" is the garden center with its four columns and "spout" candidate. The "small, split, three-winged" etc could be referring to something else; perhaps a plant as shecrab suggests, or words from signs in the center. If you were standing slightly to the right of the point of view in this pic, the genie would appear as below; the veiled face above the water spout with the columns behind, and the surrounding brickwork. Wilhouse says the genie has a close match in the zoo, which it may do, but this one also has a lot going for it. One doesn't rule out the other. I see these pictures as composites, compiled from multiple reference photos. Eg, several different types of columns in the pic, several different types of columns in the park (including the Mecom colonnade, raided from the original Miller theatre). All these images I've posted, the spout, the star, the genie square, the sandy bunkers of the golf course, are all right next to each other, near the friendship pavilion. It's a no-brainer. Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers It's the 1964 Lillian Schnitzer Fountain by John Worrington Wood . (The dedication plaque has a quote from Wordsworth - "A spirit still and bright with something of an angel light".) This is "the Wood" (sculpture by Wood) through which the water gushes/veers. No lion fears it because it isn't the forest type of wood, which they tend to be more afraid of. Eg, see The Wizard of Oz .

forest_blight wrote:: I can't remember if this occurred to us before. But could "There's the spout" be a reference to Herman Melville's "Moby Dick"? "There she blows! A hump like a snow-hill! It is Moby Dick!" Sure it could. Why not? It's a delightful double pun on Melville. But there IS a geyser, remember. And that's spout enough for me. BUT....Remember what I said about Ball's Bluff?  Literary jokes were Preiss's specialty and I think he probably threw in a bunch of them. I mean, look at the rest of the book--it's ALL literary jokes. Typical of that Lampoon gang.

I saw a youtube video of a big dog standing in a foutain that had exactly four jets in a square shooting upwards.  The dog just stood there enjoying it.  I havent been able to identify where that is in the park yet.  Anyone know of it?  It looks like a good sized pool area. What does everyone think about the linemwith "tower" also refering to giraffe?

I do not think "tower" refers to a giraffe. If you google a map of the Houston Museum of Natural Science and click on the satellite map, scroll down a bit--you can see how much renovation they did at the zoo. It pretty much shows the entire thing scraped. They must have clicked the satellite camera during those renovations. Unless that casque was buried on the outskirts of the zoo in Hermann park itself somewhere, or along the train tracks, it will not be recovered.

BREAKTHROUGH!!! It's not a granite sphere. It's not a Kugel ball. It's not an aerial view of the reflecting pool and the SH statue. IT'S A WATER TOWER. All the clues are RIGHT THERE---"in the sky the water veers", "Our strongest tower of delight" and the Image itself! There's a curve of those kiddy train tracks where you can SEE a WATER TOWER. It might not even BE at the zoo or the park--but you'll be able to see it. And if you stop the train right there, you'll find the casque. I'd be willing to bet on it.

I keep forgetting to check but didnt the minitrain setup get relocated to some extent after 82?

shecrab wrote:: IT'S A WATER TOWER. I don't think there's a water tower near the park.  Should be pretty easy to spot on a map, if there is, though.

There is a kugel ball right outside the entrance to the museum across from the sam houston statue. The statue area and the pond were all redone so you can't go by google maps. The train was rerouted but I posted a map of the original track. Here's some fun shots, the elf fountain by the back gate and Snowflake the llama by the nursery where they hatched reptiles. wilhouse

Hmm... 12 colonies...Adama...Llama (camelid)...BSG is still kicking. Three winged and slight What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently I've been gleaning for date details on my original claims and discovered that the roof of the Outdoor Theater is completely different now than it was.  I also found the old tracks to the mini train had just looped around the northwestern to eastern side of the lake and then parked over by the 982.  I've got a lot to tear down before I make any headway in this most difficult if not futile attempt to sleuth up a casque. Three winged and slight.  Finches are small birds, winged and slight.  The Gouldian finch can have one of three head colors.  I noticed that the Tropical Aviary was almost at the center of the zoo.  Just to it's west were the giraffes.  I keep thinking about the line Our strongest tower of delight and I think there may be something to "tower" referencing the giraffe, but also "delight" from the Latin "delectare" could be thought of as "charm" which is also what a collective of Finches is called.  I like the last line of this excerpt because a feather falls gently.

So far what im feeling strongest on is that "no lion fear" is the lions head drinking fountain.  Next on my list is adding punctuation to the line "three, winged and slight" so we are looking at something not with three wings but three things that have wings.  After that we are looking for four things and in the middle of it something...i keep thinking this is a giraffe, four legs and a towering neck.

Unknown: willhouse The train was rerouted but I posted a map of the original track. ive been looking for that map,anyone know the pg # where the 982 was in 2004 2nd pic hxxp://www.trainweather.com/hermannparkrailroad.html a stab at what ( Small, split,Three winged and slight ) means i dont think this is the old layout,of PK and train station side rails Small of scale Step across (small rails) Perspective should not be lost (looking back) In the center of four alike ( 2 sets of rails) which set IDK could be the side rails,or the tour tracks and side rail Small, split,Three winged and slight ( tour track,and side rails) hxxp://g.co/maps/mx57e the CZ is more SE than directly S from the train station,on this Gmap hxxp://g.co/maps/fu3vd

P.29 has some good stuff.

The train looks to be in the center of the red circle. The yellow circle looks like where the Dowling monument use to be.  Can anyone confirm this?  I'm not sure why Sonoran considered this monument of "small of scale" significance.  Is he saying it compares to the Pioneer monument which is much taller?  Any other significance?  Whoa!  My jaw just dropped when I read that Dowling won a battle 36 vs 5000.  Wow.  Maybe that's what small of scale means. I have to admit I just went to work on this image before first reading the past posts.  Now I see every conceivable thing has already been discussed...even the Lion's head fountain by Soonerfan and FB.  Doh! Either i forgot to put the image link in or It got pulled since it was all copyrighted...that was probably a nono.

wilhouse wrote:: There is a kugel ball right outside the entrance to the museum across from the sam houston statue. The statue area and the pond were all redone so you can't go by google maps. The train was rerouted but I posted a map of the original track. Here's some fun shots, the elf fountain by the back gate and Snowflake the llama by the nursery where they hatched reptiles. wilhouse Isn't there a clearer image of the elf fountain somewhere?  I can't seem to find it.

I always hoped that the Tower Of Delight was the Party Building, which was the round building across from the elf fountain. wilhouse

wilhouse wrote:: There is a kugel ball right outside the entrance to the museum across from the sam houston statue. The statue area and the pond were all redone so you can't go by google maps. The train was rerouted but I posted a map of the original track. Here's some fun shots, the elf fountain by the back gate and Snowflake the llama by the nursery where they hatched reptiles. wilhouse It's easy enough to see the original track just simply by Googling the map of the Zoo, or the museum--you can also see the extent of the renovations. The satellite pic was taken when they had most of the CZ scraped off. And the Kugel ball was installed in the 90's. It's over by the Carruth playground--not the museum. It's west of the museum. Unless they moved it?  The wiki article says it's by the museum--but the park information says it's by the playground. There must have BEEN a water tower visible from some place on that train route. I think that is the key.

erexere wrote:: I keep thinking about the line Our strongest tower of delight and I think there may be something to "tower" referencing the giraffe, but also "delight" from the Latin "delectare" could be thought of as "charm" which is also what a collective of Finches is called. Again with the collective nouns... You do know that collective nouns for groups of animals are not in any way shape or form "official" don't you ?  In fact, they can be highly arbitrary and totally fictional.

Wilhouse: is there any way for you to take that train ride?

I've taken the train ride. It's uncomforable. There's no water tower anywhere that I know of. That train was electric and I think still is. The ball has been in front of the museum at least since I moved here in 97. I think they are planning on putting in another one, but there's one right by the front door of the museum. hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM533W wilhouse

...why argue unless you are sure there is a water tower or equally sure there isnt any giraffes in the zoo?  Its not like im saying its absolute that the use of the word tower has to apply to the giraffe.  Just try to consider the option.  Its unwise to exclude the option without strong evidence against.  Its like you are claiming Byron wasnt a writer.  To clarify, only a person with proven writing skill would consider using that book quote to such effect. The idea that BP wouldnt even come close to copyright infringement is worth mentioning but there are very clear boundaries in that regard where many people play it close.  BP knew what he was doing and would avoid any pitfalls.  Just consider how bold he was to bury casques in so many interesting places...supposedly using disguises even!  Look at the situation now, we have all kinds of red tape to go through to avoid getting arrested or shot.

Unknown: Its unwise to exclude the option without strong evidence against. TO Erexere: You constantly refute what evidence you are shown against some ideas, and you continue to cling to them (some of them downright bizarre!) without ANY evidence in their FAVOR! So I think your plea to "not argue unless we can disprove your ideas" is just as bogus. Why can't you just accept that this is a forum for EVERYONE'S ideas? Yours included? And that everyone has an equal shot at being refuted? You aren't the only one getting refuted. And plenty of people who don't write can still quote. Doesn't mean a damned thing. To Wilhouse: Thanks--but I've changed my mind after studying the maps and images all last night. I don't think there's a water tower there either. It was a good shot, but I'm abandoning that idea in favor of something else. If there are two balls, okay--but I don't think that's what being depicted either.  I put my summary in the Image 8 thread.

shecrab wrote:: TO Erexere: You constantly refute what evidence you are shown against some ideas, and you continue to cling to them (some of them downright bizarre!) without ANY evidence in their FAVOR! So I think your plea to "not argue unless we can disprove your ideas" is just as bogus. Why can't you just accept that this is a forum for EVERYONE'S ideas? Yours included? And that everyone has an equal shot at being refuted? You aren't the only one getting refuted. And plenty of people who don't write can still quote. Doesn't mean a damned thing. To Wilhouse: Thanks--but I've changed my mind after studying the maps and images all last night. I don't think there's a water tower there either. It was a good shot, but I'm abandoning that idea in favor of something else. If there are two balls, okay--but I don't think that's what being depicted either.  I put my summary in the Image 8 thread. I completely accept that everyone can share the forum.  You pick your words very well and always catch mistakes, but you just opened up on me about collective nouns after maltedfalcon and I exchanged words about what was or wasnt in the official database.  I contacted the zoo about their source and im still waiting to hear back.  You claim they are fictional...why?  Whats your problem?  Where is the decency or basic relevance in your argument? No, its bogus if you think everyone else knows that about animal group names.  I had no idea there was such a list and i found it very interesting and thought it could help to share.  I ask you again to just consider it as an option. Think.  Preiss chose that particular line from Pierre when he could've found any other unless it was strictly important to identify a delightful, strong and tall structure or it could mean giraffes since they are called a tower as a group (source pending). I have NO problem with anyone dismantling my ideas.  I do provide evidence in their favor.  Your claim that I havent is insane.  If you see my evidence as weak, then just say so, I am willing to follow a source beyond wikipedia, and I did.  As I improve my understanding I gleefully join in on casting out my own ideas.  Catharsis is a healthy experience.  Its appreciated if someone helps and im sorry if anything i say looks like a waste of time or I missed that someone already went a few rounds with the same drivelly idea in the past.  You are making a mistake if you think your opinion has the strength of a sound refutation.  Just let it be an opinion.  You see things differently, you have different knowledge.  My ideas are here for you to tear down, i just wish you had something more exciting to show than your temperament. My whole BSG idea is just pure fun and I will hold on to it as long as I see it as an option.  Its too bad Preiss didnt use any BSG specific jargon like frak or daggit.  Theres clearly no official basis for it.  Who knows, maybe BSG had some gestalt influence on Preiss and he chose subconciously preffered places and yet fit them to a different framework.  Its just rich with wonder.

If the Dowling monument was right in the middle just south of the 982's first location, wouldnt that be another candidate for "small of scale" based on 36 men holding back 5000?  It was the second battle of Sabine pass.  The name Sabine has some good old fashioned Greek/Roman associations.  I suspect Preiss wouldve been drawn to that. Okay, I'm not finding any record that the Dowling monument was in the zoo area, which leaves me to wonder what the statue/fountain shape is in the old historical aerials.

One of the many lesser definitions of "tower" is, indeed, a group of giraffes. This being a zoo, it might be relevant. But I sure wouldn't want to see a group of giraffes falling, gently or not!

What's the difference between "small" and "slight"?

Unknown: I have NO problem with anyone dismantling my ideas. Unknown: I do provide evidence in their favor.  Your claim that I havent is insane. Unknown: If you see my evidence as weak, then just say so, Unknown: I am willing to follow a source beyond wikipedia, and I did. Unknown: As I improve my understanding I gleefully join in on casting out my own ideas.  Catharsis is a healthy experience. Unknown: Its appreciated if someone helps and im sorry if anything i say looks like a waste of time or I missed that someone already went a few rounds with the same drivelly idea in the past. Unknown: You are making a mistake if you think your opinion has the strength of a sound refutation.  Just let it be an opinion. Unknown: You see things differently, you have different knowledge.  My ideas are here for you to tear down, i just wish you had something more exciting to show than your temperament Yes you DO! Everytime someone does, you get upset. Insane? My claims are insane and I'm temperamental--but we should seriously consider Pac Man and Battlestar Galactica based on a slight resemblance? Okaaaaayyy.... I do! So do others! AND YOU GET UPSET. I don't use Wikipedia much. It's useful for only a marginal amount of information. I'm so glad you're healthy. "Drivelly?" I'd say that was pretty upset if you think all this work for all these years is just DRIVEL. You've been here how long? A few months now? And what you've managed to do is throw out all the ideas that have been suggested before and come up with totally different ones, but when people point out to you that there were sound, solid reasons for the previous ideas, you turn cranky and whiny and start in on how you're the only one thinking outside the box and we ought to appreciate it more. And when anyone--not just me--refutes an idea, you GET UPSET. I have NEVER said my ideas were gospel or that they are the only truth. EVERYTHING WE SAY HERE IS OPINION. Except for those of us who have gone to a site and actually dug, and have found nothing, or those of us who have gone to a site and dug and found a casque. Those ideas are not opinions. I am not one of those people, so ALL of my ideas are opinions, and I DO say so. Pay closer attention. So I'm the only one here with a "temperament?" Check your mirror.

forest_blight wrote:: What's the difference between "small" and "slight"? I know. Not a whole lot. But maybe by slight he meant "thin" or "frail." Small doesn't have to be either of those. One could have small, chunky , or sturdy things.

I just see that opinions and refutations as different.  Some things look right to me when they are in fact wrong.  It happens.  It's the details about how we work around the problem not just the problem itself that I get upset about.  Deep down I do care about my ideas when they get shot down.  But I get over it when I understand why.  The problem with some opinions is that don't say enough to help the audience understand why something deserves to be put down. Saying collective nouns aren't "official" is wrong compared to the Oxford English dictionary.  That's all I want to be upset about here.  A lack of good refutation just seems more intolerable than a simple difference in opinion. I'm pretty cool when it comes to problems.  I managed four incidents last week where vehicles suffered failure.  A starter stopped working, a tire had a flat, a battery terminal was fried, and a transmission was burnt.  In each situation the employee didn't know what to do, but I did.  I purchased a replacement starter 6 months ago because I wanted to be prepared for exactly that scenario.  I had a spare battery and a tire on hand as well.  The transmission was a bonus, but it wasn't lost, It was just very low on fluid and I saved it by adding fluid and getting into service right away.  None of those problems made me upset.  How the employees dealt with the problems is another story.  Not doing a routine tire check and then driving on the flat to the point where it now needs to be replaced rather than patched is just wrong.  Noticing your transmission isn't shifting gears but driving around for three hours instead of calling right away to report the problem is just wrong.  I like my crew and I work with them on a level of respect that they just haven't had the opportunity to learn something yet.  I've chosen to work with them by showing them we can understand these problems rather than get upset about them.  There's very little reason to get upset when people are willing to be patient. shecrab, I think you don't understand me very well and you don't see me as someone who deserves your patience, but I value your input and hope you can adjust the attitude some.  The atmosphere around here isn't filled with me being upset at everyone.  I think it's clear that I'm doing a lot to contribute and my contributions aren't the mainstream.  Opinions are flying and patience is thin.  I'm not as upset as you characterize me to be.  Just do what you do best and I'll do what I can in my own way.  I care little about being upset around here.

I'm struggling to figure out what "reconstruction" occured to the Miller Outdoor Theater. I thought this roof didn't exist back in 1981, but this picture suggests it was like this in 1979, hxxp://www.petermichel.com/Exhibitions&Proposals.html

The roof of the theater has been the same as long as I can remember.  I might not be able to remember every detail of what the park looked like back then, but I definitely remember the theater -- and it's been more or less the same since the early 80s.

Unknown: I actually like the water tower idea. I'm starting to think the "strongest tower of our delight [which] falls gently in December night" might be a fanciful description of a tower of water; a fountain, the "spout". Snow is water after all. "The name of the Lord is a strong tower" and "The fear of the Lord is a fountain of life" (Proverbs). I remain convinced the casque is somewhere near the Garden Center. I've previously looked at ways to get there from the train, but I've just noticed something which makes me think BP was being very sneaky, and you actually start there. Fortress north Cold as glass Friendship south "Friendship south" is the Friendship Pavilion (circled right). "Fortress north" is something unidentified to the north of it (maybe at the Children's Museum). Take your task To the number Nine eight two We've seen BP use "too" instead of "to". Here he's using "To" instead of "Two". Two the number nine eight two = 2 x 982 = 1964 This is the date of the Garden Center fountain, circled left above...(also happens to be the date of the planetarium). ...as seen here. Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers The fountain is by Wood, who no lion fears. Through/via this fountain the water veers into the sky. Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost I'm not sure exactly what happens next. But I'm thinking, maintaining this view of the water sprite, step back to the star (shown as a cross in the pic, therefore "step a cross"). In the center of four alike Garden Center and four columns Small, split, Three winged and slight Grr, still don't know, guessing words on signs in the garden center. What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! A whistle sounds. Don't know what the whistle is, don't care - evidently you could hear some kind of whistle in Hermann Park. I'm guessing trains. The spout could be the fountain. OK, I'm open-minded, and I'm now reaching to explain why this might refer to the fencepost I talk about here . Forest mentioned the Moby quote "There she blows! A hump like a snow-hill!" , and you could argue that the sandhills have been drawn to resemble snowhills. I was imagining a golfer in one of those bunkers swiping up a spout of sandy "snow". OK, that's a stretch, but it's the best I can do for now. Stand on the star, look across at the golf bunker, and see if it aligns with the 11th fencepost. Might sound crazy, but at least you can try it without getting shot at.

bigmattyh wrote:: The roof of the theater has been the same as long as I can remember.  I might not be able to remember every detail of what the park looked like back then, but I definitely remember the theater -- and it's been more or less the same since the early 80s. Thanks, i could swear I found a mid 80s picture that showed a different shaped roof and saying somethingmabout an update.  Im thinking it was a view from the back of the theater.  That big triangle roof is the main reason i liked my idea for the median near Fannin where it takes a position at an angle that fits a triangle with apex being the tallest of the backgound columns in the illustration.  Still something to consider then. WR, i like your arithmetic.  The Schnitzer name is big around Oregon.  Its a wealthy Jewish family in the steel industry.  The University of Oregon has the Jordan Schnitzer Art Museum.  Then Portland has the Arlene Schitzer Concert Hall.

Since I have for a long time thought that the 4 things alike were the cinder block people, I always took small and slight to be different by what they were referring to: small as in size (ie, childlike vs adult) slight as in girth (wide vs thin). There were small, large, wide and thin cinderblock people in the cz. Someone asked about the animal water fountains. Yes there were a few in the CZ, but they were movable and the zoo director told me that they put them in various places. One was usually over by the restrooms on the east side of the CZ. wilhouse

Im still unable to verify for certain if the Dowling monument had moved.  Its been south of the cz for certain based on the '79 map outline from wilhouse.  Maybe three winged is a clover reference to the Irish decent of Dowling.  It competes with the idea that smale of scale refers to his historic battle.  Well, somthing to toss around, but i dont see a sure way to connect leaving the zoo given the backward crazy feel of the verse. I was talking to my dentist about the battle of Sabine Pass and he reminded me of Samson and the donkey jaw.  Dont know if thats useful, but lots of little ideas resonate.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Take your task To the number Nine eight two We've seen BP use "too" instead of "to". Here he's using "To" instead of "Two". Two the number nine eight two = 2 x 982 = 1964 This is the date of the Garden Center fountain, circled left above...(also happens to be the date of the planetarium). Ok, I understand this casque has not been found but why oh why are people all of a sudden so quick to reinterpret things that appear so concrete? Also, while perusing the page this ^^ pic was from (found here: hxxp://www.trainweather.com/hermannparkrailroad.html ), it seems pretty logical that this is what our "perspective" line refers to.

fox wrote:: Ok, I understand this casque has not been found but why oh why are people all of a sudden so quick to reinterpret things that appear so concrete? Yes, very much agreed. I like that people are trying to come up with different interpretations of the unclear things in this verse.  That's productive.  But honestly, WR, your explanation of 982 is a classic example of going through the most unwarranted contortions to fit a pet theory. The 982 locomotive was RIGHT THERE, in Hermann Park. It's not freakin' rocket science.  I guess some people will only feel satisfied if they think they're solving some great intellectual feat.

*sigh* Do you really think I don't know that? I agree with Erexere about one thing. BP wasn't nearly as simple-minded as you people seem to think.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: *sigh* Do you really think I don't know that? Unknown: We've seen BP use "too" instead of "to". Here he's using "To" instead of "Two". Two the number nine eight two = 2 x 982 = 1964 Honestly, I don't know.  It's stuff like this... ...that supports my criticism that you favor the complicated over the simple.  No one here is arguing that BP was a simpleton, but so far there's no evidence that this puzzle requires anything other than eyes and feet on the ground at the casque location in 1982 to solve it.

Thing is, you guys often remind me of this passage from Foucault's Pendulum -- which is a brilliant book about a hunt for a buried treasure (of sorts). He threw open the shutters dramatically and pointed. At the corner of the narrow street and the broad avenue, stood a little wooden kiosk, where, presumably, lottery tickets were sold. "Gentlemen," he said, "I invite you to go and measure that kiosk. You will see that the length of the counter is one hundred and forty-nine centimeters -- in other words, one hundred-billionth of the distance between the earth and the sun. The height at the rear, one hundred and seventy-six centimeters, divided by the width of the window, fifty-six centimeters, is 3.14. The height at the front is nineteen decimeters, equal, in other words, to the number of years of the Greek lunar cycle. The sum of the heights of the two front corners and the two rear corners is one hundred and ninety times two plus one hundred seventy-six times two, which equals seven hundred and thirty-two, the date of the victory at Poitiers. The thickness of the counter is 3.10 centimeters, and the width of the cornice of the window is 8.8 centimeters. Replacing the numbers before the decimals by the corresponding letters of the alphabet, we obtain C for ten and H for eight, or C10H8, which is the formula for naphthalene." "Fantastic," I said. "You did all these measurements?" "No," Aglie said. "They were done on another kiosk, by a certain Jean-Pierre Adam. But I would assume that all lottery kiosks have more or less the same dimensions. With numbers you can do anything you like. Suppose I have the sacred number 9 and I want to get the number 1314, date of the execution of Jacques de Molay -- a date dear to anyone who, like me, professes devotion to the Templar tradition of knighthood. What do I do? Multiply nine by one hundred and forty six, the fateful day of the destruction of Carthage. How did I arrive at this? I divided thirteen hundred and fourteen by two, by three, et cetera, until I found a satisfying date. I could also have divided thirteen hundred and fourteen by 6.28, the double of 3.14, and I would have got two hundred and nine. That is the year in which Attalus I, king of Pergamon, joined the anti-Macedonian League. You see?" All these deep interpretations make it trivially easy to fit anything the book says into anything you want it to say.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I agree with Erexere about one thing. BP wasn't nearly as simple-minded as you people seem to think. I have now been working on this puzzle book for 31 years. In no way whatsoever do I think Byron Priess was simple-minded. I do think many of the proposed solutions are way over-thought.

Excellent passage, bigmattyh! You should read Bamber Gascoigne's book "Quest for the Golden Hare." It deals in part with this tendency to make too many complicated connections in treasure hunts. But as long as it's all in fun and doesn't intrude on someone's social life, it's mostly harmless. By the way, did you know that half of 982 is a prime number? That can't be a coincidence.

I've been considering the 'Take your task' line alone and I want to consider what sorts of tasks do we take?  A math test might be suitable as an answer since we take tests. Taking a path would be the most reasonable here, but if the path is a task, then what does that mean?  If your task is running, a track.  If it's taking out the trash, then your path is to the dumpster.  What task could be meant here at the park or zoo?  Combining this with the next line "to the nine eight two" in the simple view puts us at the train.  What is the task then?  Is it just as simple as take a path to the 982 train or is it possibly a task to multiply 982 by 2 and discover the 1964 memorial along with a pretty good match to the curved stitch pattern in the parking lot which was in place pre-1981. I wonder what could possibly suggest the math based approach.  Is it that Djinni are typically thought of as making wishes and people wish for more wealth than they can count?  Or is it the animal theme that brings up a noah's ark two by two idea?  Or perhaps the idea of the abacus, even though one isn't present in the image.  I don't see much else and nothing seems concrete.  This multiplying idea isn't the least outrageous and is really the smallest possible step outside the rigid sanctuary that's allowed these puzzles to remain unsolved for so long.  Keep in mind there are a number of math based elements that are often used as tools to orienteering like counting paces or measuring degrees. IMHO, Compass work should be considered a basic staple of treasure hunting.

Could the "task" be finding the casques location?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Could the "task" be finding the casques location? Of course, but that's a given and only makes the word filler.  It is an over analysis to suspect each and every word has something to offer each of the lines, but it can't hurt to give it a thought.

In the sky the water veers. Snowflakes are made of H20.  How about veering snowflakes?  Veer (turn) at Snowflake the Llama?

Unknown: I agree with Erexere about one thing. BP wasn't nearly as simple-minded as you people seem to think. Unknown: Snowflakes are made of H20.  How about veering snowflakes?  Veer (turn) at Snowflake the Llama? Simple SOLUTION does not equate with simple MINDED. No one on this board thinks Byron Preiss was simple-minded. The best treasure hunts are those where the solutions are simple and obvious only after they are known--and which devil the seekers before.  Had this hunt gotten the publicity and the attention back when it was published instead of 20 years later, it might have been solved a lot sooner--but now there is an added devilment: time's passage and the changes that entails. That does not mean that there are just layers and layers of meaning assigned to each individual word, or thought, or concept or image. It means that we can't VERIFY what we know anymore, or at least not easily. The solutions probably ARE simple. The author is not. It is this sort of conclusion, drawn from the lines of the verse, that drives me Nucking Futs: Yes, snow is made of H2O. It does not snow in Houston. I've been there in winter and it's damned hot. Veering snowflakes , therefore, cannot exist there. Veer AT Snowflake is not the same thing as veering snowflakes . It's not even close. Yet, this is the conclusion that has been suggested. It's not that the idea is not creative--it is. But creative to the point of absurdity? Creative for Creativity's sake? This is not helpful or sensible. I'm not pushing my solution over anyone else's. However, the solutions that only graze the elements lightly--or need to be "engineered" to fit the image and verse, or that don't address the whole concept of both together, don't seem to me feasible. We know the 982 is a train. We know it was there. We know that somehow the zoo fits in, somehow the water fits in. We also know the rules: no casque could be found in a flower bed or public garden. We also know you can't dig through concrete or stone blocks. In fact, we don't know only ONE thing about this solution: what "small, split, three winged and slight" means or what it refers to. Stone people? Maybe. Stone lanterns? Perhaps. A type of flower? Possibly. Could be almost anything, actually. Byron Preiss is not a simple-minded person, and was not a simple-minded writer. He was literary, educated, intelligent, and delightfully tricky. And I would bet my retirement fund on the solution, when it is finally known, being as simple and clean as a shiny jewel.

Besides "take your task to the 982", there's only one other line that is a specific order to do something: small of scale step across. There's only two small of scales that I can find in the area 1) the CZ, which is both a small of scale zoo, and a small of scale representation of the world (with areas representing North America, Latin America, Asia and Africa) 2) the small train / train tracks. Either you go across the CZ, or the bridge in the CZ, which means the casque is in the CZ as there's no other directions to LEAVE the ears after this line or you step across some part of the train track. If the latter is the case, where you go next is not clear to me. Keep in mind a couple of points: 1) there's NO other columns or structures that look like the horizontally divided poles in the image OTHER than the totem poles in the CZ and 2) the djinn's hat is exactly the elf hat in the CZ. The verse has to take you somewhere. Preiss wouldn't have expected you to dig all over the place.  There has to be some lines that, with the image, would tell you where to dig. wilhouse

The elf wilhouse

Unknown: There's only two small of scales that I can find in the area A third possibility: The aquatunnel held fish. Fish have small scales. But I'm leaning toward the "small scale" train tracks because it is very natural to think of "stepping across" tracks, and ambiguous what to "step across" if "small of scale" refers to fish or to the 4 world regions.

OK, right after you get out of the aqua tunnel, it dumps you in front of a small bridge that spans the center area of the CZ.  When you cross the bridge, it dumps you right in the center of the 4 "lands", ie, the Center of 4 alike. Take a look. wilhouse

erexere wrote:: I've been considering the 'Take your task' line alone and I want to consider what sorts of tasks do we take? forest_blight wrote:: Excellent passage, bigmattyh! (Cheers Erexere, you neatly summarised my thought process in this post.) lol, yeah, touché.  ;) But I just wanted to make the point that it's not about "intellectual feats"; it's about odd research. Multiplying something by two ain't "freakin' rocket science" either. Consider: A quote about Sarmiento in Abroad in America describing a hotel in New Orleans A 16th century Venetian painter called Marietta Robusti who played the harpsichord A decorative lamppost-base outside a club in Montreal Alexander Hamilton's childhood in the West Indies etc etc This is pretty arcane. It's not exactly general knowledge. By comparison, taking a walk round Hermann Park and looking at the handful of main fountains is a pretty obvious thing to do considering all the references in the image and verse to water spouting and veering. Realising that the date on one of the plaques is double the number of the train you've been staring at, and seeing a possible pun on "two the number nine eight two", is simple "boots on the ground" stuff by comparison, though pretty crafty. Arabia is practically synonymous with mathematics. I'm just throwing it out there as a possibility. These puzzles aren't going to be solved without some new ideas.

Heres an odd idea.  A big ball in the sky...balloons?  Before the cruciform style of four fins was adopted, zepplins used a three fin design, like the standard shape on a feather arrow.  Zepplins are balloons.  Balloons are often lost by children ...they should not let go of the string.  Perspective should not be lost...  Early model zepplins used hydrogen.  Water is two parts hydrogen one part oxygen.  Water veers in the sky...an air balloon filled with Hydrogen turns into water when burned.  Im thinking Hindenburg or Shenandoa (native american word for river).  Interesting connection though i dont like how its made is that Lillian Schnitzer was the daughter of George C. Schnitzer.  Ive found two conflicting articles about him saying that he died in themcrash and the other saying he survived the crash of the Shenandoa in 1923.  He was a naval radio operator.  Im thinking these were two different George C. Schnitzers.  The thing about it that intrigues me is that the skin of the zepplin was made of cow bladder intestine calLed goldbeater hide and now Im back to thinking crash of rhinos is of use as a clue about crashing zepplins.  Sorry...just some brainstormy ideas here, nothing to be upset about.

A completely different approach sees the foreground to background order of objects as a trend.  Farthest is the camel on column as Sam Houston, next is Rhino head on column as iron-hide 982, the ball-topped column serves as an overall map and direction association with red stone just below and to the right (south and slightly east), and the djinn is the Elf thanks to Wilhouse's affection and FB's appetite for hats.  This and the trend for verse clues to draw us southward could leave us to extrapolate and continue to the Lion-tearing Eye-blinded Samson-esque tower of Irish clovered decent, Dowling, which is just south and slightly east of the CZ.  Didnt someone mention an unlocked gate at that south part of the CZ?  Maybe we are expected to take this beyond where our eyes lead us... Samson is depicted as raising a donkeys jaw bone as a club against the Philistines.  It is basically a large ball on a stick...similar to the ball-topped tower.

Ball on a stick? This is a much better match. Nothing screams children (zoo) more than a lollypop. Of course I am joking here guys.

well that's not exactly the biblical proportions of Samsons is it?  Show us a photo of a legendary ass why don't you?

erexere wrote:: Show us a photo of a legendary ass why don't you? I soooo wanted to put up a shot of Jessica Alba but I just couldn't do it. How bout this one?

Gosh, i always thought it was so much bigger.  That isnt the jewish version is it?

I heard of this but didnt know it was based on the donkey jawbone.  The Vibra-slap patented in 1969. Notice the large ball end.  It basically rattles a bunch of teeth inside a resonating chamber.  I cant help but pair this with the rattlesnake.

fox wrote:: I soooo wanted to put up a shot of Jessica Alba but I just couldn't do it. Oh Fox, I've missed you. wilhouse

Im getting a Jethro Tull vibe here... hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D4xeRIn ... ata_player Got book.  Smaller than I expected.

Real quick, anyone have something that would connect to the idea of a rainbow as veering water?

erexere wrote:: Real quick, anyone have something that would connect to the idea of a rainbow as veering water? rainbow = promise that the earth will never again be completely covered by water.... ??

erexere wrote:: Im getting a Jethro Tull vibe here... hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2D4xeRIn ... ata_player Got book.  Smaller than I expected . i think thats why some think,maybe you only needed a magnifying glass to see what you need to see,and the verse to find the casque,and pgs 34 & 47 states that all you need is the verse and the img,and some digging is the task,to find the treasure

I really like it so far.  All the fair folk stuff is great.

Seems to me the BSG theory is workable when we need to pick our way south to the Childrens Zoo entrance in order to recognize the viper helmet similarity to the lionhead fountain and then realize the place that fits three winged and slight is back north, the Hermann Loop shape that fits the viper spaceship.

Or... Battlestar Galactica was not actually on TV at the time the Secret was being written; rather, it had been unceremoniously canceled after just two seasons on the air.  HOWEVER, the producer of the series, Glen A. Larson, went on to produce the series Buck Rogers in the 25th Century -- which WAS still on the air in April of 1981, well within the time frame that Byron Preiss would have been scouting locations and hiding his casques. But it gets better.  The design for the fighters in Buck Rogers was actually the *ORIGINAL* design for the Colonial Vipers in Battlestar Galactica, created by Ralph McQuarrie (who, of course, was the original designer of the STAR Wars series -- STAR? Like the STAR in the image?!).  You read that right.  The original Viper design was actually "borrowed" from Battlestar Galactica to be used in Buck Rogers in the 25th Century! So maybe it's not as straightforward as Byron Preiss wanting us to make the (obvious) Battlestar Galactica connection.  Rather, maybe he's expecting us to look directly at our TV sets and realize that there's no way he'd reference a TV show that was out of production for two years at the time, but instead for us to make the clear, but perhaps subtler, connection that the BSG legacy lived on visually as a part of Buck Rogers. Where does this all lead?  Now Houston is obviously the Space City.  And Buck Rogers was an ASTRONAUT, who was frozen in space for 400 years before being discovered in the 25th century -- but presumably, as an astronaut, he must have done his training in HOUSTON.  If that's not an obvious connection, I don't know what is. But maybe more compelling is that the most iconic character from Buck Rogers was the Mel Blanc-voiced Twiki: Look at his chest.  Does that circle remind you of anything??? I think we're onto something here; I'm anxious to see what other evidence you all can come up with on this connection.  Very exciting!

I dont see the connection.  I recall watching BSG in its first run before 81.  BP couldve seen it then and not needed to have seen it during his writing.  The connections i've worked with might seem too loose for your tastes, i get it, but theres something to be considered if would be weak clues alone become stronger when paired or corroborated within a theme supported framework. I see a good connection to the illustrations lean towards the historic Apollo columns and the pull of Starbuck from the verse lean on Melvile is as far as im willing to go.  Pulling partials like Buck from that isnt my style. The 982 as a steam locomotive fits an interesting context with water and snow, if thats allowed as a consideration with the lines about gently falling in December.  H20 in a desert dune setting is interesting.  Im not sure what to make of that yet...what would B.R. say? Here we go, Energenie?

Here's some more crazy ideas for you. Three-winged...a triplane. Like the Sopwith Triplane . Sopwith Camel? Or maybe the Cactus Kitten, converted from the Texas Wildcat, the only design in history to go from a monoplane to biplane to triplane configuration. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triplane

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Here's some more crazy ideas for you. Three-winged...a triplane. Like the Sopwith Triplane . Sopwith Camel? Or maybe the Cactus Kitten, converted from the Texas Wildcat, the only design in history to go from a monoplane to biplane to triplane configuration. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Triplane "Zepplin Killers"!!  Ooh i like that.  Thanks, lets add that to the caravan of ideas.

erexere wrote:: Thanks, lets add that to the caravan of ideas. That caravan of ideas keeps getting longer and longer....

fox wrote:: That caravan of ideas keeps getting longer and longer....   ;D hey...is that a Tower of Camels?

I believe it's called a "snowflake" of camels.

I thought it was a snowflake of llamas.

You know, I get llamas and camels confused.  It is a snowflake of llamas.  A flurry of camels.

I'm not sure what you call it but if you look really closely....riding atop the 34th appears to be a cylon.

I'm really okay with the Glassell School being a marker for something that's just north of the park, without needing a south marker.

forest_blight wrote:: ...there is nothing "fortressy" about the Glassell. The building does not look like a fortification, and we don't go around comparing all buildings to fortresses, do we? Third, why "cold"? What is cold about the Glassell? Or about Houston in general?? The Glassell theory does not seem right to me. Agreed - I like the railway quote, but it still doesn't explain the fortress, and having two really obscure quotes in the same verse might be a bit much even for BP. I previously considered  "melons as cold as glass" from the poem The Fan , which also features Arabian winds; but similarly, it's another obscure quote, it doesn't connect with "Fortress north" (except via the obscure anagram of Melos N) and it doesn't actually help. The lines also reminded me of Superman's Fortress of Solitude, but that doesn't explain the "glass". I think we're still looking for the meaning of these lines.

WR, you don't like my fortress photo? wilhouse

It's a possibility, but worth keeping a lookout.

Cold as Glass, seems to fit my entropic silica idea.  Folks don't seem to understand the concept of Entropy so well, so if you do, then you'll get it like its clear as day.  Glass is really not the best example of a low entropic solid since its molecules are suspended in a "water" like liquid posing as a solid formation (please know this aas a fact).  Something very similar to Glass, formula-wise is Quartz, which is this amazing compact and ordered super low entropic solid.  The noteworthy thing about this form of Silicon Dioxide is that in crystallography it has been categorized according to a system attributed to Carl Hermann.  He was a distinguished German scientist who was helpful to the Jews during the Holocaust and lived by the principles of the Quakers.  Friendswood, South of Houston, is the headquarters of the Quaker organization for the Houston area. Glassel is a nice safe word similar correlation, but my coffee-saturated-gut tells me the Carl Hermann connection is 100% on track.  Sorry if it sounds even more obscure than the Melville quote...

What I know of Preiss (and of course it's very little) I doubt he would have been able to converse on entropy, enthalpy, heat transfer, solids of composition, newtonian physics, semi solid liquids, non-newtonian fluids or faster than light travel. Though he did publish lots of sci fi wilhouse

*sigh* this hunt is just a big tease!  How does one cope?

find a casque

I think wilhouse nailed both the "fortress" and the cold "glass".  Let's once again not look to the bizarre and think in more simple terms.  What is cold and looks like glass?  Seems pretty obvious to me.  Ice.  The building itself doesnt have to be cold....nor do it's glass windows......It is just that it looks like ice cubes and ice cubes are cold.

Imagine looking at this for the first time... Fortress north The most northerly fortress is Superman's Fortress of Solitude in the Arctic, with its giant key. We're looking for a key. The picture shows a man floating, or flying. Cold as glass Ice is cold, and "as glass" (like glass). The Fortress of Solitude is made of ice. The strongest tower of our delight Falls gently in December night Snow falls gently in December night. Snow is ice. The "strongest tower" reminds me of the "fortress". Why might the Fortress of Solitude be a tower of "delight"...? Dunno...the quote on the fountain plaque is by Wordsworth, which reminds me of the "bliss of solitude" from his most famous poem. Bit of a stretch though. But maybe we've overlooked some icy clue.

I have that issue! wilhouse

I have similar issues...just put a lock on the bedroom door to keep the kids out. So, where would you feel like you are a 'Superman'?  Is Sam Houston super?  Dowling?  Something in a "red cape?" No, I got it, its "solid dude" = solitude.  The statue of S. Man.  A dude is an eastern man in a western ranch setting.  Sam Houston was from the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia.  His statue is solid.  I think every bit of focus is on him.

Fortress north Cold as glass The Glassell Friendship south Texas, and the Friendship Pavilion Take your task To the number Nine eight two The SP982, plus a sly hint at the nearby fountain with its 2 x 982 Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers This fountain, by Wood. Visual confirmer... Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost Scale of C Small C (programming language) Step across the C-shaped parking lot from the fountain. Visual confirmer: In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Quote from Pierre concerning a leaf falling -> the white leaf on the sign seen at this spot... It's small, split, three-winged, slight, in the center of four, featuring the word "center", and a leaf, which is what falls in the Melville quote. "...what we take to be our strongest tower of delight only stands at the caprice of the minutest event - the falling of a leaf" Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! Looking back at the fountain from the fence. A whistle sounds. Probably a train whistle. More visual confirmers: The Chicago casque was beside a wire fence... ...and so is this one, at the foot of the 11th post. Why the 11th...? This is indicated by the row of 11 tiles with an "11" above it. That's my theory, and I'm sticking to it. The only way to prove or disprove it is to try digging a hole there. Is there any other theory which attempts to explain everything in the verse and image, points to a very specific spot, pulls quotations off local signs like the two solved casques, and could be tested tomorrow by a volunteer with a spade? I rest my case. I will now stand aside and watch patiently as this revelation is buried under piles of nonsense over the coming years, while the casque rests in its leafy bed, awaiting the bright soul who will bring it triumphantly back into the sunlight.  ;)

well, there was no small c programming language in 1982. wilhouse

wilhouse wrote:: well, there was no small c programming language in 1982. wilhouse there was,but the average joe prob didnt have access,or understanding of the puter $$$ were prob a factor hxxp://blog.modernmechanix.com/2007/04/ ... computers/ hxxp://library.thinkquest.org/22522/timeline4b_en.html hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Programming_language forgot that link

I stand corrected. I programmed on a PDP 11/45, but we used Fortran and Basic. We also used APL.  Small C was very specific and clearly not well known. I doubt if Preiss could be referring to it.  Small C generated compiler code which would only be used by programmers, not general users. wilhouse

Unknown: Noun through (plural throughs) A large slab of stone laid on a tomb. I might have to abandon all my previous ideas about Blimps, Battlestar Galactica and Buck Rodgers... I wonder if the "Through the wood" line is sufficient as a reference to the Portable Trojan Bear.  The word 'through' has many interesting usages.  It can even be a term for a large slab of stone lain over a tomb. But that gets away from my point unless someone has a stone slab in mind. The Portable Trojan Bear is a mostly wood and iron art sculpture.  Recalling the story about the Trojan Horse, it was a wooden construct used to gain entry through the gates and then the soldiers contained in its hollow form emerged through a secret hatch.  Through the wood. I feel that these three simple words might be a most economical way of saying "Hey, look for that Trojan Bear sculpture: corner of Montrose and Bissonet." Fortress north Cold as glass Friendship south These lines are presented as introduction. I think the Fortress is the towering section of the St. Paul church on Bissonet as seen from the corner of Montrose near the Glassel Art School.  We are then considering something south. Take your task To the number Nine eight two This sets our goal to head to the iconic locomotive steam engine, requiring us to travel south through the north entrance area of Hermann Park.  Beginning our trek south from the Glassel Art School, we pass the Jung Center of Houston (Hey, there's one of those where I live in Eugene, ORE. too). Through the wood No lion fears The main point of the ambiguous line "Through the wood" is followed by "No lion fears" seems to be a relatively simple assertion that a "Jungle" is the wood a lion as king of the jungle wouldn't fear.  Is it sufficient to reason that "Jungle" = Jung institute? In the sky the water veers I wonder if the focus here is seeing the sky's reflection in the large rectangular pool that follows Hermann Circle. Small of scale Step across I have little doubt this is the miniature train track you first encounter as you pass the Pioneer monument. Perspective should not be lost Using the image, you should see that you have found the exact spot intended.  I've used the Golden Spiral to show that it resolves to a point just near the base of the large column with the ball on top.  Taking a map or aerial perspective, that puts us right around the spot off the southeast corner of the Pioneer monument.  Holding the image up and looking north you'll see that the Sam Houston statue fits the position of the camel on column in the image except he (Sam) is facing to the right whereas the camel is facing left.  This is a curious situation.  We've just traveled south and not necessarily made our trek all the way to the 982 and we have a possible match to the image but in the perspective the heads are facing left.  We can, however, find a perspective that fits Sam to the camel if we double back. In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight Sam Houston statue in the center of a circle has(had) four trees in a square around him.  Hermann Circle has three main offshoots (three winged?).  Passing through and to the north side of the statue we find he again fits the perspective when we look back south from a small area where Fannin splits into San Jacinto. What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Looking for a minutest event...a small indication of something, like a leaf indicates a tree, a road sign indicating a road, a date engraved on a stone, there was once a short utility post in the middle of the Fannin split... Falls gently In December night This cries snowflake to me, but it could be something else.  Falling gently to sleep ?  In December night use a heater and a light ? Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! A whistle sounds. Further confirmation that we are in the right spot if we see a spout of some sort.  I say it's the Mecom Fountain.  Don't really know what the whistle could be unless its an intersection, like how a Police officer would direct traffic.

I really like a lot of your thoughts. They mirror a lot of what I was looking at before I ended up in the CZ. Two issues - the rectangular pond and the tracks are both radically different to day than in 1982. That whole are you are referring to was dug up in construction and if the casque was there, it's probably not any more. wilhouse

Let's take a closer look.  Excuse the large image uploads, going for the best detail I could find available. Comparing 1981 with 2002 aerials, I didn't think there was a rail system installed prior to 1984, yet looking closely you can make out the rails on Fannin (see yellow arrow).  There are just TWO trees on what I call the "Fannin Split" in 1981, still in place in 2002 (see yellow circle). As for the large reflecting pool, it's obviously under construction in 2002 and has been done several times over past decades of improvements.  The Pioneer Memorial looks like it was relocated south about 50-60 feet.  The mini-rail tracks seem to have been moved north by the same margin.  Neither change affects my interpretation much since this is just the location where the Golden Spiral resolves and is only a very rough indicator of where to stand in order to find a perspective which might resemble something in the image. Surely you've passed on most of my more imaginative correlations (blimps, BSG, etc..) but how about that Jung School idea?  I'm really enthusiastic about that more down to earth idea.  See how several very good connections are within grasp from the vicinity of Montrose and Bissonet.

I always enjoyed your more imaginative quests. This is more down to earth for sure. I am a little nervous digging out in the open there though... wihouse

Here's a minimal event with regard to "Our strongest tower of delight", how about a bus stop?  It seems to happen not frequently enough when we are waiting for a bus...and when it shows up we are surely delighted.

it's a stretch. not much of a tower wilhouse

About the rail line that went along Fannin in 1981, I discovered that was part of an old electric trolley track that connected Downtown Houston to Bellaire via Fannin street to Holcolme Blvd.  Rails were reconstructed for the Metro Light Rail after.  That's why I can see tracks in the 1981 and earlier aerials.

I have to admit I'm not feeling confident in my overall view of the execution of Preiss' setup.  The road construction was dramatic even though trees and ground looks the same in areas, there's the uncertainty that ground was escavated significantly and then refilled and reseeded with grass.  Also, my arbitrary selection of the rectangle used to create a golden spiral doesn't align with the star, thus the star has become an assumption for a location on the map.  If that is so, then its hard to say what pinpoints the treasure based on what surroundings look like today given all the change with the adoption of light rail.  A new consideration, based on a reset of the spiral so that the rectangle chosen fits exactly the star and the bases of the smaller background columns brings the focus right to the base of the camel column.  That creates a new location for consideration.  I'm working on that now.  Sadly, I don't feel as strong about the Fannin Split in this new view. Gotta keep a fresh perspective and open mind.  I was just thinking Pierre:Moby Dick::Anthem:The Fountainhead where Melville and Ayn Rand are concerned.

yeah, remember that Preiss was an author, editor and publisher. He loved words. And he didn't care that readers might not get the references. There was no internet back then either! I'd be interested in an analysis that centered on the CZ. I still think it's in there, but I'm missing the final pieces for the location since things were moved around. wilhouse

I'm looking at a spot about halfway between the Pioneer Memorial and Miller Outdoor Theater.  Someone with the book in hand will need to spend awhile surveying a 50 foot radius.

I think the exact location of the 982 in 1981 matters.  It was moved a hundred yards or so to the east of its original location and set at an angle.

Remember the lion head fountain at the cz?  Plot that location on a map.  Now consider that the 982 is also a head to a train.  Plot that.  Draw a line to include those points.  See if that intersects the center of my new spiral adjustment.  Is like to do this when I get back home.  Can someone give me a precise location for the lion head fountain?  Is the current remodled lion head the same location as the 1981 version? I should also consider the aquatic tunnel as a preferable interpretation of the line "in the sky the water veers".

there's very few markers between the memorial and the theatre... yes, the 982 was moved when the zoo expanded. by expanded I also mean added a fence. wilhouse

Some items is like to fact check:  has the fountain center in McGowan always been known as "Leo the fountain"? Has Whistlestop been the name of a location since 1981? I was just thinking "a whistle sounds," could simply mean "there's a stop.". Usually a whistle is a signal to stop.  A stop sign would indicate a roadway or perhaps a spot where a walkway crosses a rail track.

My thoughts have really settled on the idea that the casque is buried in the middle of four trees of a very specific type.  Preiss informs us of what kind by allusion and description of the 'samara' a winged-tree fruit that is more commonly known as the whirly helicopter seeds belonging to the Sycamore Maple. I think you will find this specific set of four trees just north east of the Pioneer memorial fountain and past the path about halfway to the grounds of the Miller Outdoor Theater.

erexere wrote:: I was just thinking "a whistle sounds," could simply mean "there's a stop.". Usually a whistle is a signal to stop. Not true- Train whistles had a code everything from "stop" to "go", to "there are cows on the tracks" or "we're changing tracks."

Well it's been a fun soccer season with my kids.  At their level, the whistle from the coach usually came in response to the ball going out of bounds or to signal play to stop if a kid was injured and to bring the teams in for a quick huddle in between rounds or after water breaks. We have one big train reference "982" and likely a small train reference "small of scale" and a visual "curved line with cross hatching".  Maybe we're pushing it to think the whistle has to also be train related. Maybe it's orchestra related.

Directly across the street from the CZ back in the 80's was a Nabisco factory. The old CZ director told me that the factory had a whistle that would sound at lunch and quitting time. He said it was so loud it sounded like it was right in the zoo. wilhouse

Today I had the epiphany about "in the sky the water veers" and it seems unequivocally to do with rain and the sudden change in direction rain makes when it hits a slanted roof.  Is there a particularly remarkable roof in the Hermann Park area?  Yes, the Miller Outdoor Theater.  I think this site is a focal point for the reason that the casque is there among the trees nearby.  The tough part is finding the exact method for decoding it's position.  We look at the picture and see a large tilted stone in the distance, central in the image.  If this is similar to Chicago, we might consider the arched fencing that was one of the cross hair markers in the ten by thirteen plot of trees.  This tilted stone might be the same thing.  The next question is what other points would create an intersection for spot location?  The pioneer memorial fountain?  A specifically shaped oak tree?  The line extending out from the center peak of the Miller Outdoor Theater?  The funky statue?

the key is and always has been, determining what small, split, three winged and slight is. wilhouse

How about the Southern Catalpa.  It's leaves have an interesting technical description where they grow in "whorls" of three and the edges are classified as "smooth" -apparently there are a variety of edge descriptions, I believe "smooth" or "entire" is a perfect equivalent of "slight".  In winter, the fruit seeds remain on the tree and are described as thin beans which often split.  The tree is commonly called an Indian Bean or Cigar Tree. I also wonder if the Miller Outdoor Theater roof is somewhat like a leaf with it's smooth metal edges (cold as glass, in the Ayn Rand perspective refers to a steel rail) and it's notched top with wide base like that of the heart-shaped cordate leaf shape. Small, split, Three winged and slight If this is about a tree, then the Catalpa is a good choice.  I even wondered if Catalpa = "Cat + Alpha" = Lion.

erexere wrote:: I believe "smooth" or "entire" is a perfect equivalent of "slight". So I went to Thesaurus.com and put in Smooth, Entire and Slight, and could find no references where Smooth or Entire is equivalent  to slight. Am I missing something?

Use dictionary.  Slight has a defintion as adj to describe something as smooth. Entire is as a botanical term in leaf edge description. hxxp://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=slight Should we consider 'cold as glass' as related to the smoothness of a surface?

Back to thinking on the first two lines.  Fortress north fixes our focus on a search for a building with a defensive wall or a tower as a fortified position.  St. Pauls has that kind of character but I really think we shouldnt be thinking of a building at all.  The line seems more like a nod to Superman than anything else.  Perhaps we need to consider what might be most like Superman.  The fortress of solitude was essentially a secret lab for Supes to conduct experiments or work on special projects.  It contained an alien zoo and was like a museum hosting all his trrophies from his achievements.  In a sense, the park on the whole is like the FoS.

Cold as glass in the story Anthem is about an iluminated train rail.  Was the Atropos Key iluminated in 1982?

Unknown: ‘That’s good.—Help me, man; I wish to stand. So, so, I see him! there! there! going to leeward still; what a leaping spout!—Hands off from me! The eternal sap runs up in Ahab’s bones again! Set the sail; out oars; the helm!’ I think there's a perspective on the ground which starts on a hill top where you can see the 982 train in the far distance and you can see the mini train as it passes closer on it's tracks near the Pioneer Memorial.  You can see the Sam Houston statue in the center of four alike as well.  The 982 is south and the Sam Houston is north.  Walk north slowly and you looking back you'll see the mini train disappear below the obstructing hilltop, continue to walk further down and then the 982 will also disappear.  That is the point where you could consider the analogy to Moby Dick swimming below the surface of the ocean.  It is also at that point where should a jet of steam erupt from the train, it would be just as if you've spotted the whale as Ahab does on Page 826 just before claiming the doubloon for himself, Is there a hill anywhere in that area with shaded green?  The blue outline is a section based on establishing a view on both the 982 and minitrain.  The yellow triangle is based on a view of the Miller Outdoor Theater roof and stone pier blocks.

The park has been heavily modified. that area you are shading used to be full of trees like a forest, now its paved and many of the trees were removed. This is the biggest problem with this treasure. The aerial photos of the time were not good enough for us to get a good look at the ground. I am contacting several leads in Houston to get old photos of the park. I wont be limiting myself to any one area, anything from the 80s in Herman Park. I am also looking for old schematics, plans or tree diagrams. Some where out there I should find some government record with clues as to how the park looked in the 80s. Like in forensic science I will attempt a reconstuction of the park.

Here's the 1981 vs the 1944, agreed, lots of missing trees but also some new ones. I liked this shot too.

This hill was here (green dot) in 1981. Sadly the hill received some renovations in 1996.  The Atropos Key continues to sit on top, but the incline was steepened.  I don't know if that means more soil was added or some was taken away. I noticed that you could probably see the 982 from this hill but not over the top of the Miller Outdoor Theater roof, however you could see it to the side of the roof line.  You could aslo see the mini train in it's smaller, old setting.  I still think it's important to see the Sam Houston statue.  This hill makes it all happen.  If my theory holds, a closer investigation of the hill on the slope away from the theater might give us some clues.

One problem with Small, split, Three winged and slight being a catalpa tree leaf:

Good try.  That's 1 of 3 on a whorl.  I did my research.   Cant rule it out yet.  Right now I'm into considering for various reasons the southern catalpa which produces the skinny beans that split and stay on the tree in winter, the fineal acorn producing oak tree, and the spiraling samara producing sycamore maple. Rookhunter and wilhouse are both right about lots of renovations in the park...itll be a miracle if this casque hasnt been lost ffor good. Just had another idea.  I think we've overlooked the context of 'fortress north' by expecting a building.  Its about seeing the implied fortress in recognizing the Portable Trojan Bear.  The trojan horse was exactly about breaching the impenatrable fortress.  If this makes sense then we should also consider the methodology for making more such creative adjustments to locate signifucant sculptures. The Portable Trojan Bear establishes the north boundary of this puzzle.  The 982 establishes the south boundary.

that's NOT small!! and remeber, we need in the center, which means they can't be one thing, or you need three of them wilhouse

They come in different sizes. The long skinny seed pod that dangles from the tree are small and split. Considering a leaf to be a wing isn't that bad of an idea.  Three leaves that sprout from the same branch point is called a whorl.   The verse doesnt say "small wing".  We cant assume multiple lines fit the same context since we don't have enough evidence to support either case. Actually, just forget about the tree identification stuff.  This feels too complicated. We know the Sam Houston statue stands/stood in the center of a circle with four trees in a square.  We know the 982 is/was a big steam locomotive and centerpiece to the park.  Overall, we have a smattering of tourist attractions, sculptures, and landmarks.  Asking how any of these could give us a sense for a location is how we might work this. I've been thinking more on the "take your task" line and the line about 3 wings.  I was thinking of how a big task could be split up into smaller more manageable steps.  For instance, a large work force could be employed to build something and the three separate tasks might be required.  This work force could operate in three subgroups, divisions or wings to manage each of the tasks.  Task organizations commonly use these terms. Now consider the mythological task of managing our fate.  Lachesis, Clotho, and Atropos each performed their portion of a larger task.  They, the Fates, were an organization of three wings.  The line is "Three winged and slight".  I've been all over the map on the meaning of 'slight', but one of the most common uses of the term is to describe skinniness.  I've tried to work this out as a reference to a 'skeleton', since obviously that is as skinny as it gets when we're talking about a person.  The Atropos Key sculpture DOES have a skeletal form within it's hollow center.  It does represent something of a three winged organization.  It stands across a step, "step across," and it even has a small scale representation of the large angled roof lines of the Miller Outdoor Theater, "small, split," I realize doesn't have to mean split just once, it could be split in many ways like a pizza, split in 8 or 12 slices.  Judging the overall shape of the Atropos Key, I realize it has a large pear shape with a wide middle, with a small skeletal center and circular heart, and it has a relatively smallish diamond cut-out for a head with many off-shoot rays like a star or a sun forming its crown.  Could this be the small, split?

In order to get into the center, it would seem that each of the small, split and three winged should be separate things. I know that doesn't have to be true but it seems like it should be. I was thinking fence (small, split  can't get to three winged), doors (small, split door - there was one on the party room), three winged always was the bugger. wilhouse

Wilhouse, doesnt seem more like the center belongs to the four things alike and the three winged idea might not involve a center at all?

Much as I like the Atropos Key, I can't see how it relates to those lines. It's really not "three-winged". Two max.

Physically no, symbolically yes.  Being one of a trio sharing a task.  Somewhere in these puzzles a level of interpretation has to come into play otherwise it would all be X steps north, stop at tree, go west till you bump your head, look down...etc.

erex, if I knew that I'd probably have the casque on my mantle wilhouse

In terms of plants, "Tripteris" means "Three-winged"... hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tripteris hxxp://www.plantzafrica.com/planttuv/tripopposit.htm Doesn't look very promising though. I'd been thinking of the "four alike" as forming some kind of square, but I guess they could be in a straight line. I've also been wondering vaguely about "trefoil"...kind of connects with peas (alike, small, split) and wings (aerofoil, three-foil)...maybe a decorative motif.

It should be noted (again) that Preiss liked using trees in his process.  The ten by thirteen wasnt a square plot of 130 (10x13=130) trees.  The trees along two sides of the corner counted out as ten in a line on the west edge and thirteen along the north edge.  The same method wouldbbe used to describe a rectangle.  There is a geometey motif, not necessary so much to solve Chicago. So let me ask what fits best in Houston for simple use of trees and lines or rectangles/squares? I think my specific tree identification idea is too elborate.  I'm more inclined to think the object of "in the middle of four alike" is to identify a coordinating point.  I think Friendship south AND in the middle of four alike point to Sam Houstons statue.  The casque will be determined by having line of sight on him.  The hill at Miller Outdoor Theater looks like a healthy option.

Look at this second set of "slight" trees on the west side of theater, you can see the block in the distance.

that's a real nice spot.  not sure what kind of trees those are.

They look like young sycamores.

that ground is hard as a rock. There's no way anything was buried there without a jackhammer wilhouse

wilhouse wrote:: that ground is hard as a rock. There's no way anything was buried there without a jackhammer wilhouse Either way as I review the aerials of that area in different years, it doesnt look like those trees were there in 82.

Unknown: It is the custom on the stage, in all good murderous melodramas, to present the tragic and the comic scenes, in as regular alternation, as the layers of red and white in a side of streaky bacon. The hero sinks upon his straw bed, weighed down by fetters and misfortunes; in the next scene, his faithful but unconscious squire regales the audience with a comic song. We behold, with throbbing bosoms, the heroine in the grasp of a proud and ruthless baron: her virtue and her life alike in danger, drawing forth her dagger to preserve the one at the cost of the other; and just as our expectations are wrought up to the highest pitch, a whistle is heard , and we are straightway transported to the great hall of the castle; where a grey-headed seneschal sings a funny chorus with a funnier body of vassals, who are free of all sorts of places, from church vaults to palaces, and roam about in company, carolling perpetually . Unknown: Oliver was precisely in this condition. He saw the Jew with his half-closed eyes; heard his low whistling ; and recognised the sound of the spoon grating against the saucepan’s sides: and yet the self-same senses were mentally engaged, at the same time, in busy action with almost everybody he had ever known. When the coffee was done, the Jew drew the saucepan to the hob. Standing, then in an irresolute attitude for a few minutes, as if he did not well know how to employ himself, he turned round and looked at Oliver, and called him by his name. He did not answer, and was to all appearances asleep. After satisfiying himself upon this head, the Jew stepped gently to the door: which he fastened. He then drew forth: as it seemed to Oliver, from some trap in the floor: a small box, which he placed carefully on the table. His eyes glistened as he raised the lid, and looked in. Dragging an old chair to the table, he sat down; and took from it a magnificent gold watch, sparkling with jewels. ‘Aha!’ said the Jew, shrugging up his shoulders, and distorting every feature with a hideous grin. ‘Clever dogs! Clever dogs! Staunch to the last! Never told the old parson where they were. Never poached upon old Fagin! And why should they? It wouldn’t have loosened the knot, or kept the drop up, a minute longer. No, no, no! Fine fellows! Fine fellows!’ With these, and other muttered reflections of the like nature, the Jew once more deposited the watch in its place of safety. At least half a dozen more were severally drawn forth from the same box, and surveyed with equal pleasure; besides rings, brooches, bracelet, and other articles of jewellery, of such magnificent materials, and costly workmanship, that Oliver had no idea, even of their names. Having replaced these trinkets, the Jew took out another: so small that it lay in the palm of his hand. There seemed to be some very minute inscription on it; for the Jew laid it flat upon the table, and shading it with his hand, pored over it, long and earnestly. At length he put it down, as if despairing of success; and, leaning back in his chair, muttered: ‘What a fine thing capital punishment is! Dead men never repent; dead men never bring awkward stories to light. Ah, it’s a fine thing for the trade! Five of ‘em strung up in a row, and none left to play booty, or turn white-livered!’ As the Jew uttered these words, his bright dark eyes, which had been staring vacantly before him, fell on Oliver’s face; the boy’s eyes were fixed on his in mute curiousity; and although the recognition was only for an instant—for the briefest space of time that can possibly be conceived—it was enough to show the old man that he had been observed. Whistling happens in Oliver Twist.   Page 189 is one example. This reminds me of a sidenote.  I've been thinking more about the lines about December night and the whistle sounds.  Christmas carolling happens in December night.  There is a Caroline street that runs into Hermann Park.  It is a stretch though to say carolling = Caroline. The one instance of "whistle" in Oliver Twist that intrigues me most is this, pages 94-95. A nice little passage about a secret box and jewels. I wonder if the little Oliver Twist statue plays a role in finding this casque.

I've been having new thoughts on this relating to Christmas.  I'm envisioning a toy train being gifted by Santa.  Falling gently / In December night, might apply to this gift as Santa lands softly on a rooftop and then proceeds down a chimney. It could be there is a large portion of verse lines directing our attention to sky, roof, and train.  The lion and wood still puzzle me.  Some things I read about while considering the anatomy of a steam locomotive: funnel/chimney/smokestack all the same thing, sand dome, steam dome, and saddle. Looking at image 8: The sandy background might account for something literal, 1) look for a sandy connection, 2) look for a hill. The camel and rhino elements might be referring to humps.  The domes on a train are like humps.  Both train and camel may have saddles.  The saddle on a train acts as a water reservoir, so maybe its more like the camels hump despite the name saddle. The genie's lower half is similar to a water funnel or spout. The lion is a man eater.  The train carries man inside its cars/bellies. Melville could still be kicking around a whale reference.

Fortress north trojan bear sculpture is clue Cold as glass metal Friendship south a gift waits at the doors of an impenetrable wall Take your task To the number Nine eight two 982 Southern Pacific Steam Locomotive Through the wood Woodward ,  plaque on Atropos statue. No lion fears. lion = apex [predator] In the sky the water veers the roof of the Miller Outdoor Theater is an impenetrable wall to rain Small of scale dimensions of a large something are represented by a small something Step across the step beneath the Atropos Key Perspective should not be lost follow a straight line In the center of four alike the diamond shape viewport of the Atropos Key Small, split, Three winged and slight Atropos of three sisters of Fate, in charge of cutting the thread What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight last, the signature, a moment of precision Falls gently In December night a snowflake, but in this case, death, as Atropos perorms her task of cutting the thread.  December is the end of the year and metaphor for the end of life. Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! view of 982's funnel A whistle sounds. proximity to the miniature train --- So, no toy train for Christmas idea here.  No whale swallowing either.  Just imagery conveying "hill/hump" and "top/apex".  Sand andDecember are symbolic of "time running out".  Think of the hourglass and the December romance.  Camel, rhino head, and genie all convey a one-directional motif.  Preiss liked Indiana Jones.

interesting stuff wilhouse

I see I have your attention. The image doesnt offer any solid geometric motifs like I've attempted in the past.  I think the central object is the tilted stone just near the main object of the metaphor for the roof.  The leaves in the image emulate the spikey top of the Atropos.  Sand.  Its feeling all together and simple in my mind.  Its up to your willingnes to see the detached meanings of -ward and wing.

that's the only thing that bothers me. The cleveland and chicago casques images were literal.  In other words, Preiss took polaroid photos and sent them to the painter and he painted them into the image. I don't see that here. You would think there'd be some represntation "literally" of the miller theatre or the Key. I don't see that. That's not to say it's wrong, I just wish there were literal images in the image around that area. The horizontal totems, the elf fountain, the hills, the light poles are all located in the CZ area, which are a ways from Miller. wilhouse

The tilted stone is all I have as far as a literal image factor. The leaves look similar to the Atropos but the stone is spot on. I think theres a nice feel to it for a CZ interpretation especially if you are decided on a linear reading of verse which makes it easy to say you go to the 982 and continue south.  But if you accept that, as you put it, its as good as anything. Preiss uses the first word of the verse to direct our thinking: Fortress.  When it comes to understanding the idea of a gift used to infiltrate an impenetrable fortress, like the Trojan horse was used under the guise of friendship, we have a gigantic roof of the Miller Outdoor Theater impenetrable to water from the sky and we have a gift from Patricia S. WOODward to the city of Houston in front of the theater, the Atropos Key.  Looking through its diamond face with four equal sides and lining up the apex of the roof, we are able to find the exact spot on the hill ala Raiders of the Lost Ark style. The tricks to get in the verse are the Trojan Horse and Atropos myths.  Seeing the metaphors of sand and December as symbolic for "time is almost out or near death" fits the image and verse for Atropos whose task is one of three divisions(military usage of wing) of fate, the cutting of the thread when a persons life is at its end. I have posted some of the details to forum.  It all sorts out nicely once you see the use of lion means apex and three wings means the three sisters of Fate. Preiss liked Indiana Jones and Greek tales.

again, it's as good as anything! wilhouse

wilhouse wrote:: again, it's as good as anything! wilhouse Permit my humor, this casque will be found at this spot because its a "dead-reckoning"... Well, Sir Eg dug during a wedding, I don't see why you cant bring a bulldozer to a heavy metal concert.

Hi folks, the Oliver Twist in connection with a whistle idea doesnt really sit well. Moving on to something that does sit well, consider words ending in -ward like forward, downward, skyward, homeward, etc.  These words utilize -ward to say "-in the direction of" front, down, sky, home, etc.  Can we then consider the example of WOODWARD to be "in the direction of wood?"  If so, does that equate with "through the wood"?  The name Woodward appears on the plaque at the base of the Atropos Key sculpture in front of the Miller Outdoor Theater.  Looking hrough the center of the sculpture's diamond squared cutout we can see the apex of the Theater from a distant position near trees at the base of the hill.  I'm fairly certain of this alignment from photographs online.  Does "no lion fears" equate with "no APEX PREDATOR fears" which equates with "fear no predator but see apex"?

I like Woodward wilhouse

saw this looking at Gimgs for zoo, on the left looks, ( Small, split,Three winged and slight ) on the right looks like the leaves of the tree in img,just throwing it out there Small, split, Three winged and slight

can you tell exactly where this is? wilhouse

wilhouse wrote:: can you tell exactly where this is? wilhouse i realized i didnt cut past the whole thing,i think it is at the entrance hxxp://goo.gl/maps/qQJNn scroll zoom hxxp://www.panoramio.com/photo_explorer ... ser=873256 hxxp://www.panoramio.com/photo/21266972

I found this picture most compelling.  It's incredibly lucky that this person with the camera had a natural inclination to see this site in the same way as Preiss.  It must've been taken from very nearly the exact spot where I believe Preiss buried the casque. See how the apex is centered in the diamond.  This is likely right next to the light tower post at the base of the Miller Hill.

I'm aware of the remodels and additions to the science museum.  The fish is confirmed by an article in this Smithsonian link .

The question remains, why did Preiss use the Pierre quore?  I find it nefessary to assume he wanted to use Melville but avoid a direct big "fish" reference.  It must be weighed what he thought would be challenging and yet not too difficult.  Id like to see s ok me discussion on this. Looks like I misread the article.  It didn't say Houston Museum of Natural Science, it said the Black Marlin was hanging over the doors of the executive conference room of the National Museum of Natural History.  Sorry for the mistake.  I may have to reconsider some of my conclusions.

maybe the marlin was partly the right approach, but when I thought of this superman parallel my jaw dropped,

If the hole in the statue was perfect cut gem shaped I could see that. but its just a generic diamond,  too much of a leap or even a tall bound for me...

I understand your harder than steel stance when it comes to inexactness but you might make an allowance for certain well inown symbolic elements.  Of course I'm skeptical if its at all needed to  perceive this Superman trivia.

I'm wondering about the word 'friendship'.  Friend + ship.  Of the many roles onboard a ship, which would best be classified as a friend?  A steward is the best I can come up with.  Anyone have a better answer?  I see the definition as their task of looking after the ships passengers, provisions, supplies and other caretaking duties. Previously I concluded that the name of the donor of the Atropos Key statue, Woodward, was a possible breakdown of the line "through the wood".  By he same extremely simplified logic I thought of applying it to the third line," Friendship south" in coordination with a theory similar to V12, left of where Lincoln sits.  I felt that this line should be most directly with the casque location.  The statue's artist name is Hannah Stewart.  I'm pretty sure Stewart shares the same etymology as 'steward'.

Is too far fetched to say the word lion sounds like the word line?

Generally, no. For the purposes of this puzzle, probably. But aren't we already saying world sounds like whirled?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Generally, no. For the purposes of this puzzle, probably. But aren't we already saying world sounds like whirled? The idea I'm looking at concerns what hints to the final locating method might lie in each puzzle.  For Houston I believe a line-motif is used similar to using a sight and crosshair projection in a straight line.  Perhaps Milwaukee is best described as a turn-motif.  I don't know how to elaborate on that one yet, but I'm closing in on something soon. Thanks for answering.

it might be there...it would not be a waste of time to dig there, but I cannot make any guarantees whatsoever Ellipsis. Waste. Time. Lachesis, one of the three fates, her task is to determin how much time a persons life may have. I think Preiss gave Wilhouse a serious clue.

I believe Preiss utilized a commonality or theme to set the Houston casque.  "The end of the line" is the reference made my the 982 train.  The scissors of Atropos represent the "end of the line" that is a persons lifethread.

I've considered this verse for a very long time today.  I have to find out if the play Twelfth Night involves or typically has a flute arrangement of some kind or if a character in the play uses a whistle.  I've never seen or read the play, so maybe someone who has might offer an answer to this. In December night really seems a simple fit for being another way to put "Twelfth Night", given that December is the twelfth month.  The line preceding A whistle sounds , There's the spout! seems also like a reference to a person on stage using a loud projecting voice or "spouting" the lines of a play.  This supports the Miller Outdoor Theater as the venue for what we would see Looking back from treasure ground , and strictly implies that to find the casque we must be facing in the opposite direction from the theater.  This supports my theory that a straight line must be taken from the apex of the theater through the center of the diamond shaped slit in the Atropos Key sculpture to a point projected on the back side of the hill.

Sadly for the method I believe used to locate the casque there's been some alterations that may affect recovery.  In the mid 90's the lawn and hill was regraded in some areas, not sure where exactly, and the statue was removed restored and replaced.  I'm hoping that didn't include redoing its foundation.  It could all be off an inch and that would effect a significant change in a line projection from roof peak to ground. *sigh*  I think its looking grim for that casque ever being found.

erexere wrote:: I think its looking grim for that casque ever being found. ... At that location.

Fortress north  [Sculpture: The Alamo was taken by Santa Ana on March 6, 1836.  Sam Houston captured Santa Ana on April 21st, 1836.  Sam Houston's statue is north of casque] Cold as glass  [Sculpture: Atropos Key is in front of the Miller Outdoor Theater and is polished, tooled-surface, cast bronze -Anthem, a story by Ayn Rand wherein she describes polished metal as “smooth and cold as glass”] Friendship south [Wild Guess: friend + ship = steward] Take your task To the number Nine eight two  [Historic steam locomotive No. 982] Through the wood  [Plaque on Sculpture: Woodward, Patricia S. donated sculpture] No lion fears  [Architectural: apex predator, subtract out that which is feared, “no predator” = apex] In the sky the water veers  [Architectural: rain veers when it comes in contact with a roof] Small of scale [Using a small unit to represent something larger: 1inch = 1 mile for example] Step across Perspective should not be lost [Maintain a straight path] In the center of four alike  [Sculpture: the face of Atropos Key has four sides of equal length] Small, split,  [Word: proportioned] Three winged and slight  [Sculpture: Atropos is of the three who lot, measure, and cut the threads of life.  Atropos Key is skeletal with rib cage showing and showing no arms but has winged elbows or sides] What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight  [Quote: excerpt from Melville's Pierre: The Ambiguities, having to do with the small fleeting moments that we constantly witness such as the falling of a leaf] Falls gently In December night [Wild Guess: Twelfth Night, the play, to indicate the setting of being next to the outdoor theater.  Shakespeare uses gender ambiguity.  Malvolio is a steward.] Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! [Word: spout, to vocalize as one would orate in a play] A whistle sounds.

Starting from the alamo, which was not a fortress, by the way it was a church. and is not anywhere nearby. If you take away Lion from "no Lion Fears, you would be left with Fears, Your leap to apex predator doesn't make logical sense, why not jump to mane (mane) or a similar lion associated word. seems much more likely when you are in a park where there are actually lions it has something to do with them rather than a forced leap in vocabulary. once water hits a roof it veers, thats true, but it by definition is no longer in the sky. (so that just doesn't make sense.) When you read Wilhouse's solutions  I go "Oh, yeah that makes sense!" This just leaves me scratching my head.

Alamo.  Yes it was a church.  It seems odd to say a building fortified with soldiers and ensuing battle of great historic importance doesn make the Alamo a defacto fortress.  It isn't a fort, but in the strictest sense it is the focal point of a defensive stand.  Etymologically and context wise it totaly makes sense.  Given that the Alamo isn't nearby isn't important to considering the context of Sam Huston. Maybe I couldve rephrased my lion argument.  It makes sense to say a lion is an apex predator.  It then follows logic wise to say "no to predator and yes to apex".  Nobody would fear an apex but everyone would fear a predator.

The first line:  Fortress north Initially it puts us on the Alamo, the focal point with respect to the Mexican (from the south) engagement that signifies the beginning of Texas history.  The following battle establishes and recognizes Sam Houstons role with the Battle of San Jacinto. Later, at the site of the casque we look at the base of a light tower at the base of a hill, and should at that point see the simple idea that a base is also a term for a fortress.

Seriously the alamo does not fit at all, you are trying so hard to shoe horn a clue into what you want it to be because it sounds good to you. Alamo- not a fort or fortress, it was a church. Alamo- Southwest of Hermann Park. Yes I realize there is a statue of Sam Houston, at the north end of the park, yet he is not a fort or fortress either. It does not make sense.

Unknown: The Alamo, originally known as Mission San Antonio de Valero, is a former Roman Catholic mission and fortress compound and was the site of the Battle of the Alamo in 1836. It is now a museum in the Alamo Plaza District of Downtown San Antonio, Texas, USA. Unknown: ... 8. A center of organization, supply, or activity; a headquarters. 9. a. A fortified center of operations. b. A supply center for a large force of military personnel. Its okay with me if you think the Alamo was more about parishioners having a disagreement than a place where US soldiers egaged in military conflict with Mexican forces... Its also okay that you don't see the sense that such an event had any involvement in connection with the man the city of Houston was named after. Also, shoehorning isn't the case.  I tried that with lots of nearby buildings, but to take a step back and look at the big  Texas picture, making use of the Alamo seems like an ideal choice.  So what if it doesn't phisically put us in Houston.  Other clues do that task.  Think about what the Alamo represents and who played a role in those events.  Starting with Alamo as the idea of a fortress is big sense.  Ignoring for the moment that we are predisposed to Houston is clearly not shoehorning. And let us not groan too loudly as I quote the Wikipedia on this, but if this is an invalid use of the word fortress please be so inclined to edit the page, Casque at the base of Miller Hill, base (n.)

using wikipedia as a primary source should get you an F on any research paper. I have given out several to my students. I would be willing to bet that whoever added that sentence was not from Texas. First let me clarify for you, No, Zero none nada, U.S Soldiers were at the Alamo. 2nd and more importantly Sam Houston was not at the Alamo... If it was a statue of Davy Crockett or Jim Bowie, Maybe but Still really not.  The Alamo is not North of the park, it is southwest. So of all the things Sam accomplished, we ignore and only associate his statue with a battleground  not anywhere nearby. Seriously this doesn't make any sense.

I stand corrected on the US soldier reference, I was being lazy.  Now that you've resolved that point, there is still no basis for pointing out that the Alamo isn't north of Houston.  I have only ever asserted that the Alamo is an association north of Mexico.  When I say Mexico is south, that means the Alamo is north of Mexico.  That should make sense to you. One more time, I'm not saying the Alamo is required to be north of Houston or the casque site.  It's strictly about the theater of war and the role of those who were involved.  The battle that took place immediately after the Alamo involved Sam Houston.  That was the victory point for those who fought, I dare say soldiers, of the the Republic of Texas. Please stop nitpicking points that don't come close to sundering the real argument. And please, get back to us when you have verified the identity and origin of the person who wrote that Wikipedia sentence.  How dare they suggest the Alamo was a place of battle. My serious apologies to those who might have been offended by my inaccuracies on Texas history.  It was truly lazy on my part, since it's easy to fall into the anachronism.  Many lives were lost in those early battles of the Mexican-American war.  Many of the players became US soldiers once Texas joined the US.

Oh yeah, the clarification that Sam houston was not at the Alamo is unnecessary.  I thought that was clear.  Sam Houston has much to do with the Alamo.  He was the response to the event.  That's why I mentioned the battle of San Jacinto. Maybe  "Remember the Alamo!" Has something to do with this.

Hey I'm from California, In Texas that alone is a hanging offense, much less making an Alamo history mistake. The clue though is "Fortress North" Not Statue, not defender, not General, not even participant. North without any modifier, in a treasure hunt pretty much indicates North of your position or the position of the treasure. That part of the verse as you have indicated usually tells you where to start after you have found the correct image. The only way I would concede the houston statue has somehting to do with the quest, is that if the word Fortress was inscribed on the base.

erexere wrote:: And please, get back to us when you have verified the identity and origin of the person who wrote that Wikipedia sentence.  How dare they suggest the Alamo was a place of battle. Sadly that section of the page is un-editable so it doesnt show creation history, however Here is a quote from the same page, Just scroll down a little. You can plainly see that the Alamo never was built by a military people for a fortress. Letter, dated January 18, 1836, from engineer Green B. Jameson to Sam Houston, commander of the Texan forces.[27]

I drop the statue of Houston as a reference. Any building used for the principle purpose of fighting is a fortification.  The Alamo, a mission, becomes a fortress by usage for that purpose.  No semantics on your part can argue that point. Assumption alone supports the convention that the meaning of north in the first line is specific to the treasure site.  I am assuming its use in a dual sense.  My argument is that the word base is sufficient in the context of the word fortress and necessitates that Mexico is south of the Alamo.  The leader of the Mexican forces, Santa Anna was defeated by Sam Houston in response to the Alamo battle.  it first serves to narrow our focus to Texas and lastly becomes the base of a hill north of the sculpture and apex. Lets bury the hatchet and find a casque.  Feel free to point out errors, just don't make nitpicky points that don't apply to the principle argument, please.

Check it out, the first line of the verse alone is very little to go on, but it at least narrows things down slightly.  It's both a lead and and end.  It's possible to apply that kind of construction to a puzzle at least.  I think Preiss has achieved it.  He takes each area of his interest and finds a spot that makes sense, then he builds a verse about the various standouts in the immediate environment and tosses in a few literary clues that keep you on track and chooses a keen line that is interpreted as an intro and outro clues to that casque.

I think that Wilhouse pretty much nailed down this entire verse. Why oh why do these wacky theories keep popping up?

maltedfalcon wrote:: Hey I'm from California, In Texas that alone is a hanging offense, much less making an Alamo history mistake. fox wrote:: I think that Wilhouse pretty much nailed down this entire verse. Why oh why do these wacky theories keep popping up? As a native Texan..."get a rope" I beg to differ Mr Fox. I have this one down to the very spot to dig. I am just waiting to pop by and get permission.

Good luck, Rookhunter!  I'm sure you'll have some success at some point.

Best of luck Rookhunter! Unearth another of these elusive casques! Take lots of pictures.

small, split, Back?  Small of the back.  A halfback; half = halved or split. Miller Hill.  Front = side facing theater stage.  Back = location of casque. Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! = an oration on stage A whistle sounds. = alternative to clapping or cheering, a whistle might be used to as an alternate form of applause.

erexere wrote:: small, split, Back?  Small of the back.  A halfback; half = halved or split. Miller Hill.  Front = side facing theater stage.  Back = location of casque. Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! = an oration on stage A whistle sounds. = alternative to clapping or cheering, a whistle might be used to as an alternate form of applause. Thank you Eric, for always reminding me of this funny clip.  (PG-13 language alert.) hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lflRbv3HA0E

I haven't watched SP for years.  I would be caught up if it wasn't for this treasure hunt.

bigmattyh wrote:: Thank you Eric, for always reminding me of this funny clip.  (PG-13 language alert.) hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lflRbv3HA0E LOL!

erexere wrote:: I haven't watched SP for years.  I would be caught up if it wasn't for this treasure hunt. Oh man, that made my sides hurt.

Do I come off schizo?  I blame sleep deprivation and beer.  At least I'm shitting out ideas that can be pursued rather han eating Chefs Salty Balls.

I've come to the assumption that Preiss saw the perfect opportunity to bury a cask at Miller Outdoor Theater's hill.  He took notice of the usage of following two points in a straight line to the spot.  Working with that he set forth a poem and picture puzzle to include cryptic references mainly to those two points themselves, how to use them, and a couple strong references to the general location. Point A: MOT apex Point B: Atropos Key Locate Polaris motif: bright star drawn in image,  first line of verse uses the word 'north', other lines to refer to 'steward' and 'withering' (works as dual reference to death for Atropos) combined to make Wilt Chamberlain aka the Big Dipper, which serves as our instruction manual to do exactly as one would when connecting the two stars Merek and Dubhe to find Polaris. The 982 and Melville quote additionally support the general location of train in Hermann Park. All together we have a perfect combination of cryptic elements resulting in a concise set of instructions. Here's a profile of MOT with Atropos Key on the hill.  Notice how the two points interact to find the location of Polaris in one image and the prospective casque location.

Very nice.

I doubt many will agree... Its really hard to justify the leaps of "friendship" =  steward = chamberlain and then build on the leaf falling and d cember night as wilting.  Wilt Chamberlain was the ultimate basketball giant pre-1982.  Did I just have a random idea or does the scene in image 8 support this claim?

I just have trouble with your analysis after BP said the Children's Zoo would be a good place to look.

If I'm right then this puzzle is basically about finding a bear...a zoo is a good place to find an Ursa...but so is the sky.

Just a quick thought with the line "Looking back from treasure ground", I think the word 'ground' may be a clue to look for something that uses electricity.

erexere wrote:: Just a quick thought with the line "Looking back from treasure ground", I think the word 'ground' may be a clue to look for something that uses electricity. Shhhhhhhhh jk

Some discoveries have a lot of potential.  The idea of actually using a dictionary is not bad at all. I noticed the lines 'take your task / to the number' seemed oddly superfluous.  I get that there's a loose poetic structure in some cases but this isn't a case where its clear.  The line 'nine eight two' is clearly numeric, we don't need a line to tell us.  I looked up numb in the dictionary.  It has the origin meaning "take, or sieze".  I discovered the adjectives numb-er or numb-est are available options.  I feel ths has some considerationgiven the preceding line has the word 'take'.  Also, cold is something to cause numbing.  could the line be 'take your task to the taker'? I've long thought Atropos has to do with this puzzle.  If Clotho measures, Lachesis spins, and Atropos cuts.  Maybe the important thing to recognize about the 982 is that it is a retired train, no longer active, cut off from the train cars it once hauled.

erexere wrote:: Some discoveries have a lot of potential.  The idea of actually using a dictionary is not bad at all. I noticed the lines 'take your task / to the number' seemed oddly superfluous.  I get that there's a loose poetic structure in some cases but this isn't a case where its clear.  The line 'nine eight two' is clearly numeric, we don't need a line to tell us.  I looked up numb in the dictionary.  It has the origin meaning "take, or sieze".  I discovered the adjectives numb-er or numb-est are available options.  I feel ths has some considerationgiven the preceding line has the word 'take'.  Also, cold is something to cause numbing.  could the line be 'take your task to the taker'? I've long thought Atropos has to do with this puzzle.  If Clotho measures, Lachesis spins, and Atropos cuts.  Maybe the important thing to recognize about the 982 is that it is a retired train, no longer active, cut off from the train cars it once hauled. Okay, let's do it your way.  "Number" has the word "umber" in it.  Using the dictionary, "umber" is a pigment which contains iron oxide and manganese oxide.  Iron has the chemical symbol "Fe" and Manganese is "Mg."  Oxygen (oxide) is symbolized by "O," and appears twice.  So, we have FEMGOO, which easily becomes "Goof Me."  So, NUMBER becomes "n goof me."  This means that the clue 982 is a red herring, and should be ignored.  But, rather than ignore it, it is tricking you, so it should be read backwards.  289 is the area code for Aurora, Ontario. "Take your task" implies "jobs" "chores" or "duties."  A CIVIC duty is one of the most important duties or tasks.  There is a Civic Square Park in Aurora, Ontario.  This could be the solution! Thank you, thank you very much.

That's not my way at all.  The word numb exists as an adjective as number.  Its a literal exercise not a pick and choosing of letters. You aren't funny and your remarks are unproductive and embarrasing.

Seriously, MF. I was with you up until you got to FEMGOO. After that, I got distracted and visited a few other sites. I need to wash my hands.

Guys, I was just kidding.  Sorry if you took offense. I guess I just got frustrated after reading another Erexere post which I thought was a bit "out there." I am trying to be as tactful as possible.  I guess if Erexere was not posting, there would be nothing to read these days. But I do get frustrated with things such as the previous post, where he takes "number 982" and converts "number" to "taker." The thought process to get from "numb" to "take" is very "unusual" to say the least.  The word "numb" has 2 definitions: deprive of the power to be normal, and "indifferent."  To get to the word "take," you have to look at the Old English origin of the word "nome," which is no longer in use and did not survive into Modern English.  It is that type of stretch that gets me frustrated.  Do you really think that Byron Preiss would be referring to an Old English word's definition which is no longer in use in Modern English? I will just keep quiet.

The word numb itself is a normal word.  Take is a normal word.  I'm not trying to make it complicated.  My reference to the word origin is appropriate given there is some level of obscurity in Preiss' attention to various resources.  Whether "taker"is going to far or not is just up to what is contained in your dictionary.  I have a more recent edition oxford and I use etymology lookup online.  I'd love to get hold of an old edition dictionary just to maintain perspective and limit myself to pre-80's information. I may not know squat about Preiss, but  I'm content to believe he has outwitted us in a very simple way.  I'm sure he knew well his literature, his Shakespeare, his Homer, Ovid, Livy, R.L.S., Sarmiento, Melville, Dante, Keats, etc. The re is no line "number 982".  982 is on its own line.  Whether you like it or not, it is a potential spot to hide useful information in how lines may be put together.  Theres simething obvious about its construction and that is where we get lazy in our attention to details.  You may have won a casque, Egbert, but you are just as stumped about this process as the rest of us. There's room for interpretation on much, where you choose to limit yourself is up to you.  I'm sorry if my process bugs you.  I don't have all the answers, neither do you, and so I'm just making use of the forum to collect notes that may apply or be dismissed.  I'm glaf you asked the question of whether Preiss wouldve made use of an old word meaning.  I don't know, maybe he did.  I'm finding some potential in it, personally. When I focus on the Atropos sculpture I consider how conventional it is to think of the mythological figure as a spider.  I'm not sure about that, but I am aware of many cases that do so.  I'm just not sure I want to put my faith in that idea.  The roof of the Miler Outdoor Theater seems to be getting attention with "In the sky / the water veers".  It looks like it has a spiders web pattern.  My conclusion in applying the word numb to these observations are potentially simple.  Do spider bites have the effect of causing numbness?  Isn't their poison, aside from being potentially lethal, also anesthetic?

Egbert wrote:: Guys, I was just kidding.  Sorry if you took offense. Please do not include me in the people taking offense. I think it's hilarious that you are still trying to be tactful, or even explain reasoning is a reasoned manner. BTW, your mock process was spot on.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Please do not include me in the people taking offense. I think it's hilarious that you are still trying to be tactful, or even explain reasoning is a reasoned manner. BTW, your mock process was spot on. Don't lose focus on the hunt by being a jerk.

erexere wrote:: Don't lose focus on the hunt by being a jerk. It's OK... I can multitask.

Good.  Looking forward to more of what you're brewing.  I think you've had some far out ideas but always interesting and potentially useful.  Your work on the Boston solution was excellent.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: It's OK... I can multitask.

I think this verse is dripping with clever.  Preiss intended to make it "easy" on some level, so we can count on at least one succinct perspective.  How we treat each line, and each word within is entirely our choice.  The first line, "fortress north" is just two freaking words and yet we've all been less than 100% confident in its purpose.  It's all a matter of convention.  Even without getting into archaic word meanings, it's clear that the line could be pointing out there is either something to the north or from the north.  There is no way to be sure and so the presence of ambiguity MUST be included in our investigation. Here's my update on my latest considerations on how to treat the verse with the following visual details and loose interpretations kept in mind:  a bright star = point navigation, three figures facing the same direction (camel = hump/back, rhino = hide/horn, genie = wish/service), and a tilted stone = incredibly close to those piers on the Miller Outdoor Theater. Fortress north = something we can't travel directly through, something which requires going around Cold as glass = "window", something which is open and can be seen through Friendship south = steward = friend + ship, providing service to those in need Take your task = "sieze", or "participate" To the number = that which "numbs", something which is cold or frozen Nine eight two = the retired 982 steam locomotive which may be simply a point of reference but also may have many other significances: steam = heated water or pressure, industrialization and growth, the head or top or force which motivates a train of cars or carrying of loads, etc.  Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar...but then there is context. Through the wood = in the direction of wood No lion fears = apex (subtract 'predator' from apex predator) In the sky the water veers = rain, changing into a slant as when falling on a sloped rooftop Small of scale = proportional or thin and overlapping (like the hide of some creatures) or a relatively small climb Step across = a literal step (a single step stone), or an active stepping over something Perspective should not be lost = straight lines maintain perspective In the center of four alike = Atropos Key's diamond faceway has four equal sides Small, split, = "separate", "spare", "skinny", "ribs" Three winged and slight = "together in a group" What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night = From Melville's Pierre: or, the Ambiguities. Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! = "deluge" or "precipitation" A whistle sounds. = "hail" (to call from a distance, also the stones from frozen rain) ---

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Seriously, MF. I was with you up until you got to FEMGOO. Dont blame me it was egbert!

Egbert wrote:: Okay, let's do it your way.  "Number" has the word "umber" in it.  Using the dictionary, "umber" is a pigment which contains iron oxide and manganese oxide.  Iron has the chemical symbol "Fe" and Manganese is "Mg."  Oxygen (oxide) is symbolized by "O," and appears twice.  So, we have FEMGOO, which easily becomes "Goof Me."  So, NUMBER becomes "n goof me."  This means that the clue 982 is a red herring, and should be ignored.  But, rather than ignore it, it is tricking you, so it should be read backwards.  289 is the area code for Aurora, Ontario. "Take your task" implies "jobs" "chores" or "duties."  A CIVIC duty is one of the most important duties or tasks.  There is a Civic Square Park in Aurora, Ontario.  This could be the solution! Thank you, thank you very much.

erexere wrote:: Don't lose focus on the hunt by being a jerk. I guess I'm a jerk as well. Maybe it seems far fetched....but the point is, that is how almost all of your ideas come across. You stick with them a couple weeks and the thread pops up saying you have now abandoned that idea because you are moving on to something new. Number 982 IS A TRAIN IN HERMANN PARK. That's it!

The point is more about people needing to blow off some steam.  I get it. The point is also about how you define productivity.  Its true that many of my ideas are unproductive.  Everyone has those. In this case I'm talking about what's literally written in the verse.  I'm not saying 982 isn't a number or that it isn't the train.  I'm saying the word "number" has some porential for an intelligent application beyond what we have assumed. The idea I'm exploring is the root word 'numb'.  Is there context to fit with this in a way that accompanies any sense of finding direction or placement in Hermann Park?  So far I've gravitated to the characteristic spider web pattern design of the iron roof of the theater.  Its very recognizable and easy to see from all around.  I'm making the connection to a spiders bite, which might be going too far.  Metal is often described as cold, perhaps that's the as far as this should go.  Perhaps there is room for a metaphor of a train on its tracks acting like a spider on its web.  The word 'task' continues to interest me.  If this metaphor is taking us somewhere perhaps our job is like catching something as insignificant as a fly.

My assumption has always been that the word "number" is a clue that it's a mode of transportation we're talking about. As in "take number 2 train to Houston" or similar.

In case anyone's interested, here is the actual train in question, at its current location in downtown. As you can see, it is large and would have been very noticeable at its former location in front of the Houston Zoo. 982

At Herman Park, between Fannin and San Jacinto is a structure that is between three "wings". Looking at it from San Jacinto in streetview, there's a water duct: "There's the spout!".

This is what I'm talking about: three winged: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Herman ... 357c789e3b And this is the spout: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Herman ... 357c789e3b

I think Wilhouse already solved the bulk of this. See if my input tips the balance to actually finding the casque. Fortress north Cold as glass "The Glassell school of art. The tiles on the Glassell building look like ice, hence, cold as glass." Friendship south "There was a Friendship park just south of the zoo" Take your task To the number Nine eight two Everyone agreed it was a reference to the Southern Pacific 982 train formerly stationed at the Hermann Park Zoo. Through the wood No lion fears You are at the zoo. You don't have to be afraid of the lion. In the sky the water veers Large fountain in McGovern lake. In the wind, the water will veer in the sky. Small of scale Ride the smaller scale train for a while. Step across Step across one of the bridges to get to the north of McGovern lake. Perspective should not be lost Generic comment because of both large scale and small scale trains, and the large fountain and the 4 small fountains we are about to get to. In the center of four alike Pioneer Memorial Obelisk is in the center of 4 small fountains. Small, split, Three winged and slight The 4 fountains are each composed of 3 small streams of water. Check out the pictures online. What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently Others have said this is a Herman Melville quote that confirms Hermann Park as the location. It does double duty by referring to the Pioneer Memorial Obelisk, because it is a tower. In December night Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! Not being at the site I am guessing that in December, if they turn off the fountains so the pipes don't freeze, the spout of one of the fountains becomes more visible. Find a spot of ground near the Obelisk, with the characteristic that if you look back in the direction you came from, you can see a spout. A whistle sounds. You can now whistle in appreciation at me for pointing out the 4 identical 3-winged fountains around Pioneer Memorial Obelisk. DocZ

The object of course is to get the verse to point to a place to dig. That spot as we have seen from the found verses, must resolve to a location about 1-3 foot square. If it doesn't you are likely to miss the casque, even if you are right next to it. If your proposed solution resolves to a general area or "Somewhere near...", Then most likely you have not found the solution. The two found casques were resolved to a square foot. Although in Cleveland Frost heave had broken and moved the casque pieces. In Chicago they actually had BP there and they almost missed the spot

I agree with Malted Falcon that the verse has to get you to a specific spot. But I am not in Houston to look for the spout and whistle. That does not change the fact that I think my input was still a big step forward by identifying where to go to be in the center of 4 things that are the same and 3-winged. We are a lot closer. So if Wilhouse wants to scope out that site, maybe the last 3 lines will resolve themselves. I made one suggestion, but it would be more clear in person.

DocZ, You definitely have found a location that fits, a section of Verse 1 I even like that the small train goes right by the location. which gives you small of scale step across, which most likely indicates step over the small train tracks. The trouble with "ride the train for a while" is it doesn't stop ,its a loop that takes you back to the start. BP's verses seem random, but he chose every single word with care. I.e. from Verse 11 Ride the man of oz, indicates (probably) to go over the washington BAUM bridge so If he wanted you to ride the train or follow the tracks, he would have said something besides, small of scale step across As I recall, The 982 train was south of the lake near the zoo entrance The verse definitely takes you there. South of that was the Children's Zoo BP told Wilhouse, the Children's Zoo would be a good place to look for a casque. So as much as I do like the fountains and obelisk, how do you get from there back to the Children's Zoo?

"The obelisk was erected in the park by the San Jacinto Centennial Association in 1936, and moved to its current location during a revitalization project that ended in 2003 ." When did it begin? I'm guessing after 1981.

forest_blight wrote:: "he obelisk was erected in the park by the San Jacinto Centennial Association in 1936, and moved to its current location during a revitalization project that ended in 2003 ." When did it begin? I'm guessing after 1981. Well that eliminates that possibility!

Ironically, the Pioneer Fountain was one of the very first places I looked for the casque. I even took photos of the area and asked Price if I was close. His response: Don't dig there. That was easy to follow, it's all concrete, there's not a spot you could dig. Also, the columns are typical greek columns with vertical flutes. The only columns with horizontal flutes are in the CZ. wilhouse

I think some of the earlier links are dead. But I see now that there has been a lot of renovation done recently. Willhouse, can you re post some of the pictures you took at the CZ to see if anything strikes the eye of an outside observer? DocZ

sure wilhouse

I have only recently thought about the notion of the last line containing some special relevance to a final piece of the location process. For this Houston location there's certainly some options, whichever is preferable to a working solution, A whistle sounds = A train hint "High pitched", indicating a roof or steep slope An orchestra, a pit, near the proscenium of a theater stage A mouth, forcing air passed lips to make a whistle sound. My favorite option here is the diamond shaped hole in the face of the Atropos Key statue, which may be considered a mouth through which wind passes. Its also a four equal sided figure through which one can center their line of sight to the very tip of the theater's apex (a non-predator apex or point like a horn-tip that nobody need fear).

erexere, we know you like the key as a solution, but you'll never be able to dig anywhere around there. wilhouse

I agree. I believe that casque is unrecoverable based on the regrading of the hill during the major overhaul. The verse still holds much mystery. Fortress north is still very puzzling to me.

How about this for the Fortress North: Just north of the zoo...First Pres Church, used to be St. Pauls. wilhouse https://www.google.com/maps/place/First+Presbyterian+Church+of+Houston/@29.727681,-95.389783,2a,90y,90t/data=!3m5!1e2!3m3!1s34056131!2e1!3e10!4m5!1m2!2m1!1sSt.+Paul+church+on+Bissonet!3m1!1s0x0:0x9e2b2ae3eb4a9614!6m1!1e1?hl=en

Maybe. I think of a fortress as a fortification or area which is impassable requiring someone to "go around". I like the idea of it being a higher ground and having a wall around it.

There's a wall around the place. It looks like a fortress. wilhouse

If you are strongly inclined to think that "cold as glass" is a reference to Ayn Rand's Anthem , then check out this building: It's the Anthem Blue Cross building in Denver, Colorado. It was completed in 1973 and probably got some press around that time. It certainly looks like a fortress. It has the word "Anthem" in big letters at the top. And if I were flipping through Ayn Rand's book to find a quotation to use as a hint, "cold as glass" is certainly the one I would use. Also, check out those big circular openings in the stone facade. They certainly remind me of the window in Image 11. All of that being said, this is probably a dead end unless there are other ties to the area in the verse. Anyone know of a "friendship" or "982" in Denver?

I once found a building in Houston that interested me visually, but then I realized it was overdoing things, because as interesting as it was it didnt serve a definite or discernible purpose to the puzzle as a whole. I dont see anything particularly purposeful in looking at the Anthem building in Denver. I'd say the Ayn Rand influence is possible but the Melville does the bulk of the work in drawing us to things Hermann and other ambiguous notions.

I spent about four hours today at Hermann Park. I had an interesting conversation with one of the ladies in guest relations at the zoo. I wanted to find out about where the camels were in the zoo back in the 80's since the zoo has none now. I pulled out a picture taken at the zoo circa 1982 of a camel and she immediately called out the camels name! I asked her where the camel was kept and she said the camel was in the children's zoo. I asked her where the children's zoo was then and she pointed it out to me on a copy of an aerial photo from 1981 I have and it is located at the very bottom of the zoo. (The round building at the bottom.) I then asked about the location of the rhinoceros pen at that same time frame and she could not remember. However, if it was in the same general location they are now it would be up the left wall of the zoo. Drawing a hypothetical line from the approximate center between the children's zoo and the rhinoceros pen and going NE over where the stack of the locomotive would have been in the 1981 photo, the line passes extremely close to the Atropos Key statue. However, as you know, the hill that the Atropos Key is located on top of at the Miller Outdoor Theater was renovated in 2008-2009 and raised 6 feet. I asked at the Hermann Park Conservancy building if anyone knew whether or not the statue was moved from its original location and no on there could answer that question. Just now, I came across this and the question has been answered. The Atropos Key cannot be used for an accurate measure because it was moved and even a couple of feet could cause some drastic changes to calculations. When you get to the site, click on 2008 on the right side. It will take you to December 2008 and if you scroll down to November you will see the pictures of the Atropos Key being disassembled. The movie clips found in Dec. 2008 and in Jan. of 2009 show how much dirt was hauled in. In the last clip on Feb 6 (you have to click on "continue reading") you can see the new (and it looks like larger) base waiting for to Atropos Key to be reinstalled. I took about 185 pictures in the park today. I followed a couple of lines (paths) that I wanted to check, like the one I mentioned above and also one starting at the same location the other line started from, but going over the fountain in Lake McGovern that you can see in the older aerial photographs. I found nothing of "four alike" on either trail. In the Google historical photo map I have attached the map shifts from my lines on a current map so the left line does not pass directly over the fountain but the line is close enough for checking it out. I might also mention, when you think of "in the center of four alike" don't just think of the 4 corners of a box with something in the center but also think of 5 things in a single row where the middle object is in the "center of four alike". Another thought is "Through the wood no lion fears" consider the "no lion fears" is directed to you, not the lion. In other words, the woods you go through you will not have to worry about lions so that would mean the woods going AWAY from the zoo. Just my random thoughts! Good luck to all and keep hunting!

I forgot to put the link in for the work on the hill and the Atropos sculpture. It is on Miller Outdoor Theater's Facebook page and if you go down the timeline to Nov 14 2008 you will see the photos of the removal of the sculpture and in January of 2009 the finishing of the hill and putting the sculpture back on the hill on a new concrete slab. https://www.facebook.com/miller.outdoor ... e_internal

Thanks for the update. I do believe the Houston casque is destroyed or lost beyond hope because the hill was regraded. The same original elements are still in play, which is nice to see how the puzzle may have worked. Too bad.

The zoo was very woodsy back in the 80s. No lion fears could mean as you walk by the lion cage you have no lion fears, since they're caged in. Walk by the lion cage and you walk directly into the children's zoo.

TexWriter wrote:: I might also mention, when you think of "in the center of four alike" don't just think of the 4 corners of a box with something in the center but also think of 5 things in a single row where the middle object is in the "center of four alike". Another thought is "Through the wood no lion fears" consider the "no lion fears" is directed to you, not the lion. In other words, the woods you go through you will not have to worry about lions so that would mean the woods going AWAY from the zoo. Tex- These two points were what rookhunter and I debated. He, I think thought the objects were in a straight line, whereas I was thinking like 4 trees in a square pattern. Same with the zoo. I thought move toward the zoo, he thought away. There is a lot to the interpretation of the lines. This site seems like it has changed so much in the last few decades... Do you have a Flickr account? Can you upload them so we can take a look?

Willhouse- I'm not sure I remember...what was your take on the "center of four alike"? Trees? The towers/posts? -TJ

wilhouse wrote:: The zoo was very woodsy back in the 80s. No lion fears could mean as you walk by the lion cage you have no lion fears, since they're caged in. Walk by the lion cage and you walk directly into the children's zoo. Interesting take on that line. I always thought "through the wood no lion fears" was a riddle. It is calling for an answer which has the word "wood" in it. For example: What room has no floor, no walls, no ceiling, and no floor? A mushroom. Also: In which bank is it unwise to put your money? A river bank.

I don't believe any of the verses contained riddles to be answered per second. I don't believe that was Preiss's style. Remember this guy quoted obtuse Melville references.

Egbert wrote:: I always thought "through the wood no lion fears" was a riddle. It is calling for an answer which has the word "wood" in it. One nice answer to that riddle would be zebrawood . It's a beautiful, ornamental wood used in woodworking. Someone needs to hurry up and find a zebrawood doorframe that opens into a Houston park. Ideally, there will be a big sign saying "982 - DIG HERE" somewhere nearby.

wilhouse wrote:: I don't believe any of the verses contained riddles to be answered per second. I don't believe that was Preiss's style. Remember this guy quoted obtuse Melville references. We have only solved 2 puzzles out of 12. Also, he does appear to do different things in different instances. For example, there is a rebus for Mil-wauk-kee, but there is no rebus in most of the others. Also, it appears that the Boston solution may have mathematics involved, whereas that certainly isn't the case in the others. I am not saying that the entire Verse 1 is a riddle. I am just saying it is a "cute" clue to possibly name something with "wood" in it without coming out directly to say it. It also goes along with the zoo theme of Houston. Oregonian's suggestion of "zebrawood" is a possible answer, although I am not sure if BP would even know what zebrawood is. Keep thinking guys! Maybe it's not a riddle, but if you just think about it for a while, you may come up with an answer. The Pinewood Café? hxxp://www.hermannpark.org/visit/pinewood-cafe/

Kinder station and the pinewood Cafe are late additions to Hermann Park

Perhaps "through the wood" is a reference to the song/poem "Over the river...and through the wood,"and the "no lion fears" stems from the common belief that cats don't like or are afraid of water?

well, lions are definitely not afraid of water. wilhouse

neither are cats. It's just a common belief...a myth. The words "through the wood" in this old and familiar lyric might be Preiss' way of connecting us to an idea involving a river crossing. Let me say, my outdoor cat, Yoohoo von Voodoo is definitely not happy when it's raining. He perches himself anywhere that's dry and when I open the garage door he howls and tries to come in (this happens only when it's raining). He tends to be a scared little furball in general, so maybe not the best example. The point or fact is that the idea of "cats being afraid of water" had been a widely propagated idea. Where the idea came from, and whether it's actually true is beside the point. The speedbump in the process here is that the lions vs water aren't typically correlated in the fear of water idea, whereas thecats vs water is common. Although a lion is a type of cat, I expect people typically think of a housecat and not a lion in most cases they see the word 'cat'.

Just came across another 982 at Hermann.. hxxp://www.houstontx.gov/parks/artinpar ... phant.html Friendship south Take your task To the number Nine eight two Through the wood Also has "2", Friends" and "Through". Probably nothing, and not especially helpful; just thought I'd mention it anyway. I've probably said this before, but I wonder if the centre of four alike might have been a group of five trees in a curving line at the lake's edge, reflected in the water, represented by this: The continuation of the Pierre quote points at falling leaves, which might indicate trees, though the December night is hard to factor in. The McGovern lake might relate to "looking back" (reflection), the spout, maybe even the "mountains of Kaf" (Cafe). I can't help thinking that the lines Small of scale / Step across / Perspective should not be lost go together, and may relate to map scale; eg, crossing over the reflecting pool represented by the main pillar. Although stepping across the miniature railway is more obvious, that makes it difficult to find an interpretation for the "perspective" part.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I've probably said this before, but I wonder if the centre of four alike might have been a group of five trees in a curving line at the lake's edge, reflected in the water, represented by this: The continuation of the Pierre quote points at falling leaves, which might indicate trees, though the December night is hard to factor in. I think you're almost certainly right about the five trees. My interpretation is that four of the trees are evergreens (probably pines), but in the middle of those four there will be a smaller deciduous tree. That's why the verse includes the bit right there about leaves falling in the December night. The casque is buried at the base of the deciduous tree. The final bit about "looking back" is telling us what we should see when we look back from the tree (to confirm which side of the tree we should be on).

Hello everyone, It's a pleasure to meet you all. Oregonian I was recommended to get into contact with you as you're still actively researching the potential Houston cask. Please PM me if you're interested in working together! WhiteRabbit and I had been going back and forth via e-mail, and I figured I would post a recent response I received from JJP as I don't see it having been posted already (not sure if this is the best thread, so please advise): ==============QUESTION================ On Oct 30, 2014, at 5:20 PM, Matthew Jenkins wrote: Hello, I was looking to get into contact with John regarding the artwork he created for Byron Preiss' book "The Secret". Despite his death, it has been recently brought to our attention that the treasure is still available and his wife will be accommodating future winners. I am currently located in Houston, which was confirmed by Preiss prior to his death to be one of the definite locations of the treasure. Many believe it to be linked to image 8 and verse 1, but this was never confirmed or denied. As you may know Houston has been undergoing some rapid growth in these past few years, and construction has begun in many places (including our parks). The longer this casket goes unclaimed the smaller our chances are of finding it. Even in the 80s and early 2000s many of the clues and imagery were not arranged in the manner they were originally portrayed. If there's anything you can tell me, or offer as assistance it would be greatly appreciated. I look forward to working with you. You can reach me at (713)882-5533, or reply via e-mail if preferred. Thanks, - Matthew ===============================RESPONSE====================================== Subject: Re: The Secret - Byron Preiss From: [email protected] Date: Thu, 30 Oct 2014 17:44:54 -0400 To: [email protected] To Whom it may concern - The information you have is false and woefully incorrect. Mrs. Priess is not honoring any treasure finds. She no longer owns the intellectual property rights. Byron Preiss Visual Publication contracts and copyrights etc... were sold in a bankruptcy sale years ago. The book is out of print. Should the new owners of the intellectual property rights resurrect this book, it will be their decision. I cannot and will not help anyone find any treasures. I don't know where they are. So please let the treasure finding community know this fact! Let it also be know that I will not respond to any future email messages or phone calls regarding "The Secret " treasures. Sincerely- John Jude Palencar www.johnjudepalencar.com

Yeah that's consistent with past emails conversations I've had with him. According to my source who recently talked to Mrs. Preiss, she has the gems. So I'm not sure who is correct. wilhouse

Hey guys, a buddy of mine have been working on this verse for a while because we live in Houston not far from the park. Thanks for considering our thought processes. You guys have done some really good work here, but we're not quite convinced of the CZ. Has anyone considered that "small of scale, step across" might be referring to the bridge that the miniature train crosses? Back in 1982, it was the only bridge across the lake. I know the lake has been expanded, and the Pedestrian Island created, but the bridge moves in a straight line and then the tracks curve away. So if you keep walking in a straight line from the bridge onto the Pedestrian Island (perspective should not be lost), then turn around, you see the geyser in the lake (there's the spout) and you can hear the train whistle from there because the train blows it's whistle every time it runs across a driveway or major walkway. I think that if you walk from the Zoo, that you have to walk around the east side of the lake because it was heavily wooded in 1982. Then by continuing, around the lake, you come to the bridge just past the Pioneer Memorial. Any thoughts?

wilhouse so his wife says she has the jewels but byron said he lost them?

Byron had the gems in his safe. Egbert got his for finding the Cleveland cask. They were temporarily lost after his death. Maybe no one checked the safe. I understand Mrs. P has relocated them. wilhouse

I was under the impression that he cleared out his box and brought the jewels, cash, and anything else home with him since he had almost forgotten it was all there in the first place.

I am amazed that after all the posts stating JJP did not want to be bothered or questioned. someone decided to bother and question him. Makes the whole community look great!

Unknown: Makes the whole community look great! Ultimately, we are each responsible for our own actions. I doubt many of the people familiar with this forum and how it works will bother to contact JJP any further. If not out of respect, then because he has made it clear that he will not talk about his collaborations with Preiss any longer. Personally, I think that's a shame, not because I think he could help solve some of these puzzles, but because I think it would be a fascinating story that those of us who are interested in the puzzle as a whole would be interested to hear. Maybe James Renner convinced him to open up a little and agree to be interviewed for the documentary, but given Palencar's general reticence, and his most recent statements, I'll put that in the category of wishful thinking, along with the time machine, and final resolution of the line "after climbing the grand 200". Speaking of the documentary...

Focusing on the last line: A whistle sounds. A whistle tends to have a higher pitch than other instruments. A steep rooftop may be said to have a "high pitch". A whistle may be accomplished by a person as they force air past their pursed lips. I believe Priess combines two instances in one in his design which uses the diamond shaped opening in the face of the Atropos Key statue, an anthropomorphic case where one could imagine the statue is whistling, and the high peak point of the Theater roof just to the south of the statue. So in both instances, there is the occurance of "high pitched". This conclusion would be practically impossible to arrive at it if weren't for the other lines of verse, Through the wood = find a direction "wood-ward" or through the sculpture designed by a person named Woodward No lion fears = subtract predator from apex predator giving apex or highest point of a rooftop It's very difficult spotting the objects or events of concurrence as it takes the right context and the ability to rule out many possibilities inorder to find a unique fit and a method for pointing to an exact spot.

I never heard that Byron lost the gems. Egbert got his from Byron. Supposedly, Mrs. Preiss couldn't find them after his death, but then did find them. The solutions, which were supposed to be in an envelope in the safe, were not there and have not been found. This is second hand info from Jeremy. wilhouse

I correspond with Sandi from time to time. She defiantly is not wanting to be bothered, and unless you dig up a Casque you should have no reason to contact her about this. It would be good for the community as a whole to not bother anyone involved with the book with questions. Palencar has made a statement that he doesn't want to be bothered and I think it's best to respect that.

Just checking back in from my distant wanderings. I have been pulled in so many directions lately I have to find the time to come back here when I can. I wanted to follow up with a small discourse on a portion of this verse, in particular the Melville quote - "What we take to be our strongest tower of delight". It might help to see these words in the context of the story line of the book and then, knowing that Priess seemed to be very direct in his clues, take a look at what he possibly was trying to show us and to point us in the right direction. There is nothing earth shattering in what I am expounding on here but it does give a more solid lock to the Hermann Park location in Houston. As I read the book "Pierre, Or, The Ambiguities" I learned the story was about a son whose father died when he was twelve years old. In the chapter that contains our quote we are learning how Pierre idolized his father as a perfect man and enshrined him in his heart. The book continues to the destruction of this image and the evolution of Pierre's character. That is a very vague and broad statement of the book's content, but close enough. The tower being referred to in this quote is his father or anything any of us places on a high pedestal, holding onto it as a base stone of our life and knowledge. This quote states that this "tower" can come crumbling down with the mere drop of a leaf "or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather". Pierre received a letter from a half sister that he never knew about and that revealed to him maybe his father was not so perfect after all. That is pretty much the context of the quote so how does that help us in our search? If we continue in the book, three paragraphs later we read - "And here again, not unreasonably, might invocations go up to those Three Weird Ones, that tend Life's loom. Again we might ask them, What threads were those, oh ye Weird Ones, that ye wove in the years forgone; that now Pierre, they so unerringly conduct electric presentiments, that his woe is woe, his father no more a saint, and Isabel a sister indeed?" These lines refer to the three Fates and at Hermann Park we have the Atropos Key that represents one of them, the "thread cutter" who determines the length of life a person shall have. And this next is a stretch... in the next paragraph: ""but if, in after-life, Fate puts the chemic key of the cipher into his hands; then how wonderfully, he reads all the obscurest and most obliterate inscriptions he finds in his memory; yea, and rummages himself all over, for still hidden writings to read." So that is my literature lesson for today and take it for what it is, an amateur's review of a Melville work that will hopefully shed some enlightenment for our consideration. If we take the original quote to be meant to point us to the Atropos Key and apply that directly to the next line: "Falls gently In December night" you get - Good luck and good hunting!

Unknown: If we take the original quote to be meant to point us to the Atropos Key and apply that directly to the next line: "Falls gently In December night" you get - The December night could probably mean that, since the theater is literally right there, a december only event happens in the park. A Christmas special?

I see the December night imagery as a star atop a tree. Basically, looking for a light at the top of a pole. The strongest tower may be one of the super tall light poles as opposed to the standard height poles that line the parks walkways.

TexWriter, thanks for the literary investigations. I don't recall if anyone has ever mentioned the Three Weird Ones before in reference to the Melville book. That corresponds so well with the Atropos Key possibility.

I finally got my website updated and have now posted all of my thoughts on the Houston casque with lots of pictures. If you have a slow computer you could have some wait time for the pictures to download as they are large files. Maybe there is something there that might help someone discover the casque. I have highlighted my top 5 "Areas of Interest". It has been raining here in the Houston area the last couple of days and the temperature has been hovering in the mid 40's to mid 50's. It is about to warm up so I will be headed out that way to look around and see if anything new grabs me in the next 3 or 4 days. My website: txtreasurehunter.net

I dont know if its possible to find this casque. If I was in Houston right now Id go to the Atropos statue and find the spot on the ground from where I could see the apex of the theater through the diamond pattern (in the middle of four alike) in the face of Atropos. If the spot is far enough from the hill, and if it could be cross referenced by something else in the environment, then maybe its immediate area was untouched by all the heavy landscaping that followed publication.

Texwriter, great job on your website. I shouldve organized my stuff like that long ago. With respext to AoI#4, I think you need to actually lay on the grass and find that view of the apex and diamond. That way you find the actual ground point.

The problem is the Atropos Key was moved and the hill elevated by about 6 or more feet. If the location depends on "line of site" using the Atropos Key you would have to try to figure out exactly how far the key was moved as well as how much the elevation changed. Then a lot of math would need to be applied and then maybe you could find it. I thought the same thing at first, thinking of Kit Williams and the statue that he used the shadow of a cross at a certain day and time to mark the burial spot of his rabbit. So did Priess use the shadow of the Atropos Key on the Winter Solstice in December? After you look at my site you will see what I have come up with. I am right of course just as everyone else is right until we are all proven wrong. The main thing is it is fun for me to try. The thrill of the chase!

TexWriter, Oh, I can tell you things about TTotC. Let me know when you want to open up a secure line... I cry Uncle given the landscaping was so extensive. They basically plowed the old hill down, put down layers of new irrigation, rock and sod. Cask = 0. It's not a complete bust tho. We can still gain insight into how he designed the hunt if we look closely at the wording of the verse and squeeze any additional clues from the image. It may be we already have done all that we can do. Let me tell you why I think the Atropos Key is the focal point aside from what research you've already impressed us with. I look to the Litany of the Jewels for a special reference that fits the finalmost perspective on the casque spot or method for it's hiding, The Ruby out of Araby: Scarlet of desert sky at dawn scarlet may be a reference to brilliant red cloth (something woven) and Atropos is associated with cutting of threads dawn is the time when the sun is just rising over the horizon The head portion of the Atropos Key may be symbolic of the Sun with it's several rays and the apex of the theater may be thought of as a mountain peak on the horizon. Most of my conclusions for the LotJ don't seem quite right, so this is a work in progress. I hadn't actually thought about this one in particular for a long time. Now I think it's making perfect sense, especially with your research into Pierre. Now, if we hurry we can back last call.

That's alright on TTotC. That is what I have been spending most of my time on when not messing with The End Game. I personally feel I have a valid solution to it and my wife and I will be heading for the mountains as soon as the snow melts.

I made it out to the park today and took pictures of my 5 areas of interest. I will be posting an update to my website tomorrow with some of the pictures and with some new observations. Erexere, I went to the Atropos Key and lined up the peak of the Miller Theater with the opening in the Key and I will post what I found tomorrow as well. Bad news on that one.

I updated my website today. I learned how to post YouTube movies so I did so. As for my visit, I think I have ruled out my areas of interest numbers 2 through 5. There is just nothing there that points to "In the center of four alike ..." that I could see. I also found the line of intersection of the peak of the Miller Theater through the Atropos Key strikes the ground still on the hill. I also posted pictures of the new Garden Center and superimposed a map of it on Google Earth to show where the star was located in the new garden. I posted a video of area 1. There is really nothing there either except that while I was there I sat on a bench looking across the lake towards the zoo and where the train was in 1982. I could also picture the water spout in the lake in 1981 as well. This area has a perfect view to see everything. The problem, as revealed in the movie, is that all of the trees in this area are on the wrong side of the tracks. (The tracks are in about the same location they were in 1981.) That is when I realized what Preiss might have done after he stepped across the tracks. Back to look again and take a few more pictures next week when it finally warms up here in Houston.

Since the CZ is gone, you won't be able to see the horizontal columns either. I'm not sure what happened to the Imp, it's probably still in the water by the snack food area. wilhouse

Awesome work (and great site) Mr Tex. Can I request some photos of the area in front of Herman Park Dr, directly in front of the Miller theater? Facing what used to be the picnic area where the star was. I was just there last year and it looks like a different park altogether.

Rookhunter, I posted some pictures at the bottom of my website for you that I took from outside the Garden Center along with a short video. I think you can tell how much it has changed from them. Lots of trees were removed and lots of dirt hauled in plus lots of concrete curbs and sidewalks installed.

TexWriter wrote:: As for my visit, I think I have ruled out my areas of interest numbers 2 through 5. There is just nothing there that points to "In the center of four alike ..." that I could see. I also found the line of intersection of the peak of the Miller Theater through the Atropos Key strikes the ground still on the hill. TexWriter, I enjoyed your photo album, thanks. Is it okay that I cropped your photo to help illustrate my idea? I think the idea is to have the pointy peak dead center to the diamond pattern. There's no arguing that the center of four alike could refer to a square OR a diamond. Both have equal length sides. I had a problem perceiving this visually, so I've taken four lines measured off a square's edge and built a diamond from those lines to help. Tricky eh? Anyway, I agree with you that the casque was likely destroyed.

MrSeabass wrote:: You seriously need to resize the photos on your webpage. I gave up after waiting 5 minutes for it to load. That's good advice. On a related note, I recall a couple occasions where people strongly dislike it when people post images or lengthy source material here at Q4T, because they also cause frustration while loading or things look better as clickable links. I occasionaly adhere to such etiquette, but I think it's unreasonable to link every little thing. It doesn't take that long to load a 400-800px wide image and should fit most screens. Here's my take on "Three winged and slight". I think it's jst a reference to the Fates, three sisters who share in tending the threads, each doing a different part. It's no different than how one might describe our division of Government into three branches, judicial, executive, and legislative, since the word "wing" in that sense is a synonym of the word "branch".

Site is redone. Enjoy.

Last line analysis: A whistle sounds = pitch The Atropos Key looks like a baseball pitcher on the mound. Home plate is the base of the giant light pole just a bit farther past TexWriter's colorful keys.

I wish I would have read about this book a long time ago! I live in Houston and love things like this!

After noting TexWriter's marvelous find that the quote from Pierre precedes a reference to the Fates, there's little doubt the Atropos Key is a focal point of the puzzle. It may be a crumb along a trail or the absolute center of the puzzle. We cant be certain, but I feel the most remarkable situation presents itself if you consider the plaque on the statue has the mame WOODWARD and through through the center of FOUR EXACTLY EQUAL LENGTH SIDES the apex of the theater may be aligned. The line "through the wood" being the equivalent of "in the direction of wood" or "woodward" similar to words like "homeward" or "westward", etc. This also plays nicely on the words "no lion fears" if anyone looks to the common description of a lion as an APEX predator. This is to say "no predator fears" = apex. Astounding to me is how useful this information can be in solving the other puzzles and yet it seems to be a silent or marginal topic around here.

Can you identify anything in the image that would lead you to the area by the key? If the casque is by the key there should be some visual clues that are around that point. Both the other finds had visual clues near to the casque. wilhouse

Yes. I think the tilted stone anchoring each side of the theater is exactly like the stone thats tilted next to the base of the camel column. I like how the faceway of the Djinn's headscarf is a strong but not perfect fit for the general character of the theater's open face shape. I think the spikey leaves are drawn with the spikey Atropos Key features in mind. Lastly, the base of the column strongly resembles the base of the super tall light towers (still intact and original from pre1982 btw). Maybe thats all weak in your eyes, but the verse is doing a very good job bringing each of these pieces together.

do you believe it gives you an exact location to dig that would be consistent with the date of burial? wilhouse

Based on TexWriters photos, I believe theres a chance of recovery. There are several challenges to overcome. 1) the park authorities are not likely to grant permission to dig, 2) the hill and sculpture have been modified to some degree which changes the accuracy of pinpointing the dig spot, 3) it is uncertain whether the spot was originally defined at head level or at ground level. Probably Im missing some vital component of the puzzle. The Atropos Key is a great focal point, so I'd expect the verse to give pacing to the dig spot, but it doesnt look that way. Ultimately, I feel this casque is lost to circumstance. Wilhouse, you were as close as it gets. I bet Preiss would've given you credit had you not been occupied by the zoo and its mysteries.

Actually, is there a hint for a pacing? Its not 9 8 2....obviously. i dont see justification for seperating out a number, 9 or 8 or 2, or summing 9+8+2=19..., etc. Could the line "In December night" be a number? Is there a Christmas Eve feel to this? 24 paces maybe?

This is what I was thinking, I'm curious to see if this spot at roughly 24 paces in trying to fit with Christmas Eve = 24th December is close to where TexWriter set his keys for that picture he once shared with us.

I still enjoy the "Magic Carpet" feel of this puzzle, but I'm quickly liking the idea that the scarlet jewel includes a metaphor for Santa Claus, dressed in red, entering a rooftop's narrow opening to place something like a toy train at the base of a tree for a child's delight.

erexere wrote:: Wilhouse, you were as close as it gets. I bet Preiss would've given you credit had you not been occupied by the zoo and its mysteries. I guess in my mind, when he told me "it would not be a waste of time to dig there", that was all the credit I needed. wilhouse

wilhouse wrote:: I guess in my mind, when he told me "it would not be a waste of time to dig there", that was all the credit I needed. wilhouse It was a tough deal. Preiss was so helpful to those Chicago hunters. Was he just grumpy and tight lipped about things after 22 years?

erexere wrote:: It was a tough deal. Preiss was so helpful to those Chicago hunters. Was he just grumpy and tight lipped about things after 22 years? The reality was that he moved on from The Secret even if we couldn't. He just wasn't interested.

Yeah, but aint it just great that so many folks are still rackin their brains on it after all these years? I dont know about those pbwiki folks, but there's surely some progress being made somewhere. I'm tempted to buy a plane ticket to a hardware store somewhere far away if nobody figures out something soon...

If the line "cold as glass" isnt specific to the Glassel school, then perhaps it serves the purpose of a Christmas Eve when kids stay up late with their hands and faces pressed against the window in anticipation of Santa Claus...hoping to catch a glimpse of a sleigh ir a red nose in the sky....

Hi folks, My name is Dave..i will be going out to Hermann Park on Saturday August 8th, 2015 to search for the spot i think it is buried. If anyone would like to join me..just let me know.

Dave can you discuss what clues have led you to believe you have a dig site picked out? wilhouse

Dig 1 was on Saturday at the Houston Zoo The depth of my dig was close to 3 feet...but still nothing found at this location. Im going out on wednesday evening to review some more areas. Just scouting tomorrow no digging.

That looks like excellent hole digging. I wish there was some really specific pacing instructions to go with Houston. It continues to be a very challenging verse and image. Dave, could you do me a favor and check my pacing idea to use 24 steps from the Atropos Key? You dont have to dig, but Id like to know if 24 paces has a nice line when looking towards the theater roof. Take a couple pics, maybe?

I can do that for you erexere. I will take some pictures and do the pacing for you. Any requests to dig at Miller Theater area have to be approved by the Houston parks dept. They just put new grass in near the bottom of the downslop north of the atropos key statue.

Cool! When do you plan on visiting the site next?

Tomorrow morning.

Dave you say this was the zoo. Do you really mean the Miller Theater because that's not the same thing. wilhouse

My dig was at the zoo wilhouse. Erexere was asking me to check something out at the Miller theater. Erexere has a ariel photo of the theater, hill, atropos key statue and wanted me to visit and check his diagram for paces to the north of the staute. Erexere lives in Oregon. Just lending a hand to the folks who cant visit the site. He wants me to take some photos for him to help support his investigation of the area.

Dave how were you able to come up with a solve and a place to dig after all the changes have been made in the park? You must have been working on this a long time...

I'm guessing Dave is all about the fun of comparing the painting to different angles of view on the MOT. There are a many lines to consider along the bricks in addition to the columns. That tilted stone has always seemed like a ringer to me. Whatever the case, I respect that he is working on it however it makes sense to him. Ive been loosely reviewing some of the material with the implication that Santa Clause has a key role in this puzzle. I know it might sound stupid at first. It goes deeper than just an assumption from "falling gently / in december night". The preceding lines are the quote from Melville which specifically calls upon imagery of a tree dropping a leaf, and following that is mention of the Fates, three weird sisters, split into three wings/tasks in managing the threads of life. Is the importance of a tree at Christmas time a parallel to death? A bulky thought. Then the spout and whistle...does that model a tea kettle, like a Genie's lamp, granting a wish, again a parallel to Santa, essentially granting wishing children their gifts. There are two other notes to consider: Ruddy Alf and his reindeer hide boots, and the Ruby of Araby, scarlet over desert sky at dawn. Does a red nosed reindeer named Rudolph or the fact that Santa wears a big red suit or drives a big red sleigh also fulfill some subtle connection? Maybe 24 paces, maybe 25..., I think one or the other will approximate to a very nice visual on the diamond mouth of Atropos with the apex of MOT. If so, I would say we have a good candidate for a dig spot...though it will ultimately be an effort of luck.

Hi Erexere, I went out to MOT today and took some pictures for you. 1. From the Atropos statue to the light poll is exactly 100 feet. 2. From the statue to 78 feet (24 m)...i marked with the water bottle. A photo from across the rr tracks back toward statue and MOT at 289 feet (982 train). 3. The spot marked where the water bottle is coned off and geo-tagged

Wasn't the Atropos Key moved at some point? If so, why are we counting paces?

We are comparing the distance it is now vs. The distance it was then. Geo-tagging old/new

Oh, I see.

forest_blight wrote:: Wasn't the Atropos Key moved at some point? If so, why are we counting paces? The hill was upgraded with a new walkway, light posts along that walkway, and regraded on the forward facing slope to maximize the viewing experience. During that time the Atropos statue was taken down and restored to it's original luster. The block it was mounted on might be the original or a new slab. No citations or evidence that I'm aware of have proved that the statue has been moved any distance from it's original position. Given the scale of the improvements to the hill it's only my opinion that the statue's current location is some unknown number of inches or feet from it's original position in height or distance with respect to the MOT. Unlikely, but possible, it could be in it's exact original location, if the slab was left standing while improvements took place. That's the best case scenario for my theory. Why are we counting paces? This is a recent exploration. It just seemed so odd to me that the verse could be bringing our thinking around to something to do with Christmas/Santa/Reindeer. I'm caught up with multiple interpretations, so sorry if this doesn't seem polished. Ruddy Alf and his reindeer-hide boots, from the introductory portion of the Fair Folk story tells me there's a chance for a Rudolph the Red-nosed reindeer appearance in one of these puzzles. The Ruby out of Araby, scarlet of desert sky at dawn, just seems apropos of a brightly lit red nosed guide on Christmas. Maybe it's akin to the big single light mounted at the front of the old 982...boy would that thing haul a lot of coal for kids' stalkings. I digress. Paces? I believe the best reason to reference Christmas is that it's the date of the 25th or it's eve is a possible pacing clue. I'd be satisfied if that spot Dave was kind enough to pace to looked special in some way. I kind of like how the rays of the Atropos head are just touching the edges of the top point of the MOT. I'd be tempted to dig at that spot one more pace closer to the light tower. (Dave used my 24 pace reference, and I've decided that 25 seems more suitable). Given that this pacing reference is super subtle, I thought it would be nice to see some evidence in the image, so here's my attempt to find the number 25 hidden in the image, I think I've found it twice, Dave, thank you for having a look and working so hard to provide some details. Maybe you'll dig there.

Dave, did you take your picture of statue with MOT from eye level or from ground level? If I was seriously going to dig, I'd lay down on the grass and look through the camera from the lowest point because I think its important to find the line that takes the tippytop point of the theater through the four sided mouth of the statue. How did your other scoutings go?

The train tracks that you walked across at 289 feet was not in that location in 1982. wilhouse

I found this online, Perhaps it was put right back in the old location. wilhouse Title: Atropos Key Artist: Stewart, Hannah Date: 1972 Type: Sculpture Medium: Bronze (sculpture), Concrete (base) Location: Hermann Park Prominently positioned at the top of the seating area at Miller Outdoor Theatre, a place known to generations of Houstonians simply as the Hill, Atropos Key is a cast bronze sculpture atop a concrete base faced with black slate. It was created in 1972 by Hannah Holliday Stewart and was presented to the City of Houston by Patricia S. Woodward. A dedication ceremony took place on August 24, 1972. In 2009, the Houston Arts Alliance removed the sculpture, had it professionally cleaned and restored, and replaced it in its location on the Hill. The title of the piece refers to one of the Fates, the daughters of Zeus in Roman mythology. Along with her sisters, Atropos was responsible for the destiny of humans. Stewart studied art at the Cranbrook Academy of Art and taught at the University of St. Thomas. She worked with the Houston Womans Caucus for Art and had a reputation as a major force in the art world at a time when sculpture and the marketing of art were dominated by men. She died in New Mexico in 2010.

Awesome, Wilhouse. It's almost scary to think there's any chance the casque is recoverable. I constantly wonder which one of these will be found next, ..if.

wilhouse wrote:: The train tracks that you walked across at 289 feet was not in that location in 1982. wilhouse Good observation wilhouse. Looking at the old map of the park. It wasnt there. Just ran from the zoo near the lake up to pioneer square (four fountains) then to the southern area behind miller outdoor..then near zoo parking lot.

Maybe we can work wirh this idea.

Hi Erexere (Eric), I will call you saturday (10am CST) so we can talk on the phone. It is much easier and faster to discuss our notes about verse 1, image 8 and the things i see when i walk around hermann park. -Dave

I know I'm a broken record but be cognizant that almost everything you see in Hermann park wasn't there 33 years ago, or looked completely different. wilhouse

I agree wilhouse... we have to go by what the 1979 map layout has. I believe you have a strong case for looking in the zoo. With my recent dig at the zoo and not finding anything...i was a little discouraged. But i know you have been searching the zoo many more years than i have. I have a deep respect for all the work you've done. Hopefully we can get together some time this fall and compare notes.

I would like that. wilhouse

Taking the family out to the zoo on Labor day. Then we plan on going to Miller Outdoor theater at 8pm to see the Motown Review show. Packing a picnic and our camera. Not doing any searching for the caske at this time. Happy labor day to the folks in the USA.

Sounds like a good way to spend the day.

The weather is finally starting to cool down in Houston. Looking forward to doing some more digging as we get closer to Octotober. If there is anyone in Houston who would like to get together for a visit to Hermann Park or want to discuss my ideas and theories on Verse 1/image 8....just message me. I can text you my phone number if you would like to talk.

For those who are interested....i started a group on FACEBOOK for the Houston searchers. Just go to the Search box and type in " The Secret A Treasure Hunt (Houston) ". I figured it would be a good place for the Houston treasure hunters to chat, post images and get to know others in the area. I wanted to have a place to post my pictures, talk about my theories, and let others follow what I have been doing lately.

Cool idea. I tried to visit your page, but someone broke Facebook.

Facebook is back up and running. Try the search box now " The Secret A Treasure Hunt (Houston) Byron Preiss"

No find.

https://www.facebook.com/groups/1669016820051443/

HoustonTxDave wrote:: For those who are interested....i started a group on FACEBOOK for the Houston searchers. Just go to the Search box and type in " The Secret A Treasure Hunt (Houston) ". I figured it would be a good place for the Houston treasure hunters to chat, post images and get to know others in the area. I wanted to have a place to post my pictures, talk about my theories, and let others follow what I have been doing lately. Why not just use here, as opposed to creating multiple locations and making it really confusing for anybody new who wants to join in its seems to me you are just making it more difficult for new searchers.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Why not just use here, as opposed to creating multiple locations and making it really confusing for anybody new who wants to join in its seems to me you are just making it more difficult for new searchers. I will do my best to post images and info here on the Q4T forums too. I agree its good practice to let others read and critique my work. Many members here have spent years and decades posting their opinions and insites. I know mark(wilhouse) now through facebook. I hope i can make any small contributes to the forums. A newbie houston hunter, -Dave

Hey! You've revealed my secret identity! wilhouse

Wow, it's been ages since i've been here! The community has settled down a bit but that's to be expected. The progress seems to be amazing here! Hopes for a 10 year anniversary of the 2nd Casque Find! Unless it was 2004, i get dates mixed up hehe.

Ive been working on an idea for the Childrens zoo theory. The Auditoriums roof is pointy..like a witch's hat (Perspective/vanishing point pointing to the sky). What if the roof is used like a sundial. If we look at wear the shadow falls in december it might reveal the place to dig. December 22nd is winter solstice this year. In 1981 it was december 21st. In 1982 it was december 22nd. See my diagram for details...

Just came across a book called "Fortress North". https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=EGYIAQAAIAAJ&dq

I want to review some notes for The Secret A Treasure Hunt book starting with page 16...where the line starts.... "Now, in the eternal whirlwinds above Persia's Mountains of Kaf , appeared a caravan of magic-wrought carpets, and upon them rode the banished elder spirits of Araby: monsterous Deevs , desert-born giants; the Peri , bright and beautiful as starlight; and the wish-granting Djinn , formed of smokeless fire, at last free from Man's lamps and bottles" 1. Mountains of Kaf: (definition of Kaf) - "the camel's hump" or "the hand". (Arabic) NOTE: In image 8 there is a camel on top of one of the pillars. This gives us the visual reference. 2. Website link: hxxp://www.temehu.com/Cities_sites/kaf-ajnoun.htm Kaf Ajnoun (Cave of the Jinn) Mountain of Ghost: Devil's Hill The haunted natural rock fortress of Idinen, also known as the legendary "Fortress of Ghosts", or Cave of the Jinn, is located in the southern region of Libya. . . These images of the Kaf Aljnoun, also known as The Devils hill, the genies castle, the mountain of ghost or the jinn city...looks like the hill in the background of image 8. 3. (Book) Paradise Revisited: The Roots of Civilization (by Michael A. Cahill) Asia - The Peri The Peri are the fairy people of Persia, where they represent the beings of forest and rivers. Like other fairies, they can be either friendly to human beings or else act as a hinderance to them. They were believed to emanate from a demon, but it was discovered that the Deevs (giants) had abducted and imprisoned them in iron cages like birds and hung at the tops of trees. These imprisoned Peri were kept alive by their companions, who brought them nourishment in the form of perfumes that they ate.. It is believed that the Peri were fallen angels that had repented to late to be accepted into heaven. The Peris are thought to represent the light and good forces of nature that are constantly at forces with the dark evil forces call Deevs. The fairies were invisible spirits that inhabited the subterranean earth. They were said to have powers that could influence and corrupt humans as well as take any shape or form, such as animals or even humans. NOTE: In image 8, i believe the giant columns represent the Deevs, the north star represents the Peri, and the jinn (genie) represents the captured Peri that has been bottle up inside Man's lamp. IN CONCLUSION: (verse 1) 1. The importance of the very first line FORTRESS NORTH..i think refers to the "Mountains of kaf" as stated above . The legends of the Deev and Peri seems to be what Byron Preiss based his Persian theme in image 8. The photograph of the mountains looks similar to the background hill in image 8. Kaf meaning camels hump is represented in the column with the camel. The Sam Houston statue at hermann park has the same type column base that the camel/horse sits on. The capturing of the Peri and putting them in iron cages and having companions feed theme perfumes to eat...hints to the houston zoo .

Happy Thanksbgiving from the houston search team

Dave, do you have a full view of the 1980 map of Herman Park that you have on the Facebook page? The one I am referring to is the two maps side by side posted on Sept. 29th, one current (2015) and the other labeled 1980. I would very much like to see that map in it entirety if possible to answer some questions I have. Also, I have requested to be added to the Facebook page when you get a chance. Thanks.

To reply to myself, Dave, I found another version of the map in 1981 and it shows the tracks in much the same place as they are shown in the 1980 map. So, what I wanted to add to the discussion is the following in the form of questions that maybe reflect the order we are to do things from verse 1 and see if most or any of you agree: 1. After identifying "fortress north and friendship south" (whatever they might be) do we end up in Hermann Park in Houston? 2. Then next, do we take our task to the "982" train in Hermann park in 1980? 3. Now do we go "Through the wood No lion fears"? 4. Do we then pass a fountain or something where "In the sky the water veers"? 5. And then do we find "Small of scale" and then "Step across"? 6. Next do we now find something "In the center of four alike"? 7. If we found it, is it "Small, split, Three winged and slight"? 8. Now that we are here, do we ponder the meaning of "Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night"? 9. And next, do we find ourselves "Looking back from treasure ground"? 10. If "There's the spout" is next, do we see it? 11. And finally, while standing here if "A whistle sounds" do we hear it? Does my line of questioning make sense as to what I am getting at? I am trying to visualize if there is an order to be followed from the clues in the verse. TexWriter

That's what I did. wilhouse

1. After identifying "fortress north and friendship south" (whatever they might be) do we end up in Hermann Park in Houston? The coordinates in the image in the tree 30 N 95 W...are houston. The closest column with the ball on top is an arial view of the refection pool and the sam houston monument circle. The verse...line 15 and 16 are a qoute from Herman Mellville...the book being Pierre, The Ambiguities. The coordinates, the arial view of hermann parks refection pool/sam houston monument circle and the HERMAN Mellville qoute...along with the 982 southern pacific train in front of the zoo in 1980 all point to hermann park. 2. Then next, do we take our task to the "982" train in Hermann park in 1980? Our task is to start at the train 982...which was in front of the zoo and near the little choo choo kids train. 3. Now do we go "Through the wood No lion fears"? the question next...is in which direction do we go next? Because the first line of the Verse says Fortress North...you would think we would go north...but if you turn to page 16 in the book..the secret...this area of the book is about The Passage to the New World. On page 16...where it beings........Now in the eternal whirlwinds above Persia's Mountains of Kaf, appear the caravan of magic carpets and upon them rode the banished elders of Araby; Montrous Deeves..desert born giants; the Peri, bright and beautiful starlight; and tbe wish granting Djinn, formed of smokeless fire. In Persian language the definition of Kaf: means "the camel's hump" or the hand. In the image...there is a column with a camel on top of it. The column itself looks exactly like the column that sam houston sits on if looking at the side of the monument. Also...in the book titled "Paradise Revisited:The Roots of civilization" by Michael A Cahill...in the asia section it talks about the PERI...they were fairy people out of persia. In the story the Deeves abducted PERI and put them in cages. They were kept alive by feeding them perfumes. So...in conclusion...the only place in hermann park that have animals (fairies) in cages is the houston zoo. So we enter the zoo. The main area in the zoo has a refection pool which is a minature version of the one near the sam houstion monument. On both sides of the small reflection pool in the zoo are rows of old trees (wood). That no lion fears...refers to the lions den...in 1980...they were in cages/den...so you were safe. 4. Do we then pass a fountain or something where "In the sky the water veers"? the small refection pool in the zoo has fountains...that spray water up. I know most people think...well what about Ponieer park..near the obolisk...it has 4 fountains...but those small fountains were not added till the remodel in the mid 90s. So..we are at the houston zoo...near the reflection pond water fountains now...near the lions den. 5. And then do we find "Small of scale" and then "Step across"? small of scale...refers to the childrens zoo...everything was built at a small scales so kids could interact with aminals from countries. STEP across refers to the small bridge near the center of the childrens zoo..that you step over. 6. Next do we now find something "In the center of four alike"? In the center of four alike...refers the the childrens zoo park of the Houston zoo. It had 4 sections..Asia, North America, Latin America and africa. 7. If we found it, is it "Small, split, Three winged and slight"? In the childrens zoo...there were small cinder blocks that were placed in different areas as art. The were like art statues that were small..some were split in half and looked like the number three. One statue cinder block art statue looked like a bird....thus a small, split, three winged..and slight. 8. Now that we are here, do we ponder the meaning of "Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night"? The Heman Mellville qoute on the verse...line 15-16...What we talk to be the strongest tower of delight Falls Gently in the December night. In the childrens zoo..the auditorium building has a pointed roof..like a witches hat. This is your strongest tower. In december the sunlight casts a shadow down to the ground. In the verse...also it mentions that perspective should not be lost. In the childrens zoo there are columns like the one in the image with the Rhino. The column blocks looks exactly like the one in the childrens zoo near the asia section. When the afternoon sun cast a shadow down to the childrens zoo petting areas it will be near one of those columns. In the image...it shows the ruby near that column. 9. And next, do we find ourselves "Looking back from treasure ground"? if you stand over by the cinder block statue..you are at the location to LOOK back from treasured ground. So we are looking for something...see next question. 10. If "There's the spout" is next, do we see it? There's a spout...refers to the BROWNIE statue that looks like an elf with a hat on it holding a bowl. It was originally in the childrens zoo in front of the auditorium building. It was in a small water fountain area where a water spout water came up from behind him. 11. And finally, while standing here if "A whistle sounds" do we hear it? Most people think the whistle sound is from the train...but as a kid...my parents took me to the houston zoo in the childrens zoo area. When kids were allowed in...let say the asia section...to pet the animals...there was a 15 minute time you had to play with the animals...at the end of the 15 minutes...they blew a whistle or bell to let you know your time is up. Does my line of questioning make sense as to what I am getting at? I am trying to visualize if there is an order to be followed from the clues in the verse. So where do we look to dig? My Theory is the Herman Mellville qoute on the verse...line 15-16...What we talk to be the strongest tower of delight Falls Gently in the December night. In the childrens zoo..the auditorium building has a pointed roof..like a witches hat. This is your strongest tower. In december the sunlight casts a shadow down to the ground. In the verse...also it mentions that perspective should not be lost. In the childrens zoo there are columns like the one in the image with the Rhino. The column blocks look exactly like the one in the childrens zoo. When the afternoon sun cast a shadow down to the childrens zoo petting areas it will be near one of those columns. In the image...it shows the ruby near that column. Thats where to dig. BUT in 2007 thought 2013 the whole childrens zoo was dug up and destroyed...and the Gorilla exhibit was built in its place. So we may not be able to recover the houston cask because it is built over or dig out and halled off by dump trucks moving earth. WILHOUSE..has been the most active search and digger in the childrens zoo before that part was remodeled to the gorilla exhibit. He was active with park officials and even got to use tractor digging equiptment to dig...but he wasnt able to find it. If i had to give a prize for closest to the treasure cask...i would give it to wilhouse.

The strongest tower of delight could also be the party room which was another name for the office bldg across from the auditorium. Wilhouse

Thank you both for your insights. I agree the image confirms Houston with the lat and lon. It seems we all also agree that you start at the old train engine 982 from where it was located in 1980. And it also seems we agree on the order of the other occurrences. Where we differ is in the interpretation of "small of scale". I do not think people went around saying the children's zoo was small scale whereas they most certainly referred to the train as small scale. If indeed, according to my interpretation, it is the train then we must step across the tracks. If that is the case then looking at the track layout from 1980-81 then the location of the casque must be inside the loop formed by the tracks. I conclude this from the fact that there is only one mention of stepping across the tracks which would put us inside the loop. If all of this is true then that would mean the Children's Zoo as well as anything south of the location of the train tracks would be excluded since we never cross outside the loop once we step inside. The problem of course is the interpretation of Priess' email about digging in the Children's Zoo would not be a waste of time. I have no answer for that. Another comment I would make is to the quote from Melville. I read the entire book, 'Pierre, or The Ambiguities', and the meaning of that quote, to be understood more clearly, must be taken in it's context. I was standing in my front yard here in Katy TX (about 21.5 miles as the crow flies from Hermann Park) when it struck me what Priess was saying to us. The Entire quote: "What we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event—the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather." Herman's quote referred to Pierre in the book holding his father in such high esteem (this sacred belief) and the sudden arrival of a simple letter completely crushed his feelings for his father when he found his father had an affair. This quote refers to his father as the tower of delight and we see from the rest of the quote what I saw happening in my front yard. Remember, we live in Houston. It does NOT snow in Houston (except very rarely). In fact, the leaves are just now falling in my front yard (Dec. 15) from our large tree and the leaves are falling in Herman Park when I was there this past Saturday. So, "Falls gently In December night", in my opinion, refers to what Priess experienced as he was standing in the park on a December evening around 1980 when he buried the casque. The leaves were falling gently in the night as stated in the full quote. It's not the part of the quote he used, but what follows immediately thereafter. So, as you see, we differ in our opinions to a degree and that is what makes The Secret such a challenge for all of us. The search continues. TexWriter

TexWriter wrote:: So, "Falls gently In December night", in my opinion, refers to what Priess experienced as he was standing in the park on a December evening around 1980 when he buried the casque. The leaves were falling gently in the night as stated in the full quote. to me however it makes much more sense that he buried it during the summer, when the weather is nicer and there would be more cover for his activities. and Since during the year he buried it, there was a popular animal, a llama named "Snowflake" in the CZ. It makes more sense the line is referring to Snowflake as a site confirmer clue. just thinking about it leaves fall during Autumn, not december.

HoustonTxDave wrote:: The closest column with the ball on top is an arial view of the refection pool and the sam houston monument circle. It really does match the column currently, no question about that, however looking back at historical aerial photos the pool/monument area is not quite a good match. Was there a tourist map back then, which showed the area as it looks today? Sort of a preview or planned view? It definitely seems like BP collected tourist maps and postcards from where he traveled.

I too think snowflake the llama makes one of the best reasons to that line, but I wonder if that provided a foothold for a deeper reason, which is why I think its possible to utilize the number 24 or 25 as a pacing if there is a tie in for red/scarlet as a way of utilizing the Santa Claus motif.

erexere wrote:: I wonder if that provided a foothold for a deeper reason, which is why I think its possible to utilize the number 24 or 25 as a pacing if there is a tie in for red/scarlet as a way of utilizing the Santa Claus motif. I've never seen plausible evidence of deeper associations, they are all very simple and straightforward, at least they would have been then.

Im working on it. Does the Terminal Tower in Cleveland support a deeper examination given Terminus is the god of boundaries/borders? The Pierre quote isnt at all straightforward. I think its discovery guarantees some complexity in this puzzle. It does much more than simply identify Hermann Park.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Don't forget, Houston is in the south. The temperature today was 80 degrees. Everything is still green here. Believe me, the leaves have just started falling as they do every December. The weather is definitely not "nicer" in summer here unless you think digging in a sauna bath with the temperature and the humidity both hovering in the 90's is fun. But beside all of that, it seems most of you are convinced it was in the Children's Zoo and have personal experience there. I cannot argue your points at all since I have only lived in this area about 8 years now. Good luck to us all in our searches. I wish I could go to San Francisco! I think I have that one nailed. My wife and I are planning a trip that way. TexWriter

I can't remember where but I seem to remember that it took him almost a year to bury the casques. Certainly winter in Houston would be better than Milwaukee or Chicago. Also, the majority of trees in the CZ were maple or oak. The maples drop their leaves in the fall, the oaks drop theirs in the winter but they come right back. wilhouse

Unknown: I think I have that one nailed. My wife and I are planning a trip that way Always a plus to see someone confident enough about their solve to plan a trip to explore, and possibly dig. It's the only way if we expect to find #3. The best of luck to you.

Hi TexWriter, The zoo theory is one of the strongest....BUT i do have a secondary theory that i put in a request to the Houston Parks and Recreation department for a dig in Hermann Park. I am waiting for a RITE of Access and Permit to dig from their Park Administrator Rick Dewees. ... ... .... ... ..... .... ..... The spot just to the front right of the clock tower is the spot i requested to dig. Now that it is the off-season for miller outdoor theater plays....there is less traffic and the kids are out of school for christmas break. I should here from Rick Dewees sometime in early January 2016 on the permit.

Nice! Are there pictures of that clock post that show whether or not the "S" was there in 1980?

Frisco wrote:: Nice! Are there pictures of that clock post that show whether or not the "S" was there in 1980? The S on the concrete base of the clock tower is very faint. For the last photo...i used a draw program to show where the faint S is at. Im not sure if the S was there in 1980 but...with all the zoo locations lost in development....i have to at least give some alternative theories a try and dig. Theories are only theories until you dig. Then you find out if you wrong or right.

Newbie here-in Houston. Not sure if the clock was there in 80's. I am pretty sure the path that the clock is next to was built in 1997. The spout is from 1997 and the building near the clock is from 1997. I recently took a pic of the clock base, looks like a "C" - it's iffy if you ask me. Maybe I will figure out how to post pics here. I think the cask is somewhere near Miller Theatre-probably on the west side. There must be a connection between the fountain and the Djinn. Just arm chairing it so far. Lined up the diamond opening in the Atropos Key with the apex of MOT. At eye level it lines up about 6 feet back but at ground level, it does not line up at all (pic if I learn how to post.) I think the key is a general area clue but the 3 fates may play into it. One spins the thread (spindles at the top of 2 columns) and one measures the thread. What is the measurement?

RPT, I theorized a number of times about lining up the apex with the diamond space in the Atropos sculpture. My guess is the casque was placed about 68 feet beyond the sculpture. I'm still wondering if there's some kind of baseball field measurement being imposed on the MOT layout. Directly below the Apex or Atropos could be home plate, then the distance to the casque could be 90 ft if it's at "1st base", or 127 feet (or 180ft, depending on how you look at it) to 2nd base. If the casque is at the pitchers mound, then 60 feet. I dunno, just some silly baseball thoughts. HOUSTON ASTROS....HOUSTON ATROPOS... I honestly don't think the casque will ever be recovered in Houston, but it's still fun to think about.

Oh heck, I kinda like this baseball thought more and more. Supposing the word ATROPOS is a bastardized hint for Houston's ASTROS, then perhaps the diamond faced sculpture also represents the pitchers mound. What if the idea was to bury the casque at the spot that represents "Mecca" (i.e. Home Plate). 60 feet away would then make sense.

forest_blight wrote:: I can't remember if this occurred to us before. But could "There's the spout" be a reference to Herman Melville's "Moby Dick"? "There she blows! A hump like a snow-hill! It is Moby Dick!" I think this was a really great observation. I recently watched the Heart of the Sea film which reminded me of the exclamation, "theres the spout!," and "a whistle blows."

Unknown: Many of the myths of ancient Greece sound like they were written for Hollywood. There’s beauty, mystery, and treachery, with enough nasty monsters to occupy passels of computer animators. One of the nastiest is Cetus, the sea monster, which crawls across the southern sky on December evenings. I'm beginning to wonder if "the whale" constellation aka Cetus, the sea monster, is partly involved in this Melvillian puzzle.

This morning an idea I've turned over a few times here in the forums struck me in a such a way that I cant think it works any other way. When the verse says "theres the spout!," followed by "a whistle sounds," I think it calls forth an image of a whale's blow hole at the top of its head, but also the sound of a whistle is described as its "pitch". See how that works as both a Melville and/or a baseball reference? A "pitcher" as in a container, like a whale expelling water, pours water from a spout. Atropos and the Miller Outdoor Theater seem like a good fit for this image.

There was an occasion when I thought the word December had something to do with a numeric interpreration, possibly to suggest the number 12 or if it had to do with Christmas Eve, the number 24. I thought it might work as a way to count off paces. Since then, I've reconsidered my approach. I think tbere is no numeric count for anything in this puzzle and the number 982 is just a plain identifier for the train. I now believe the December hint only applies to an idea about being in the winter of ones life. This suggests a person has used almost all of their time in life, rather, one wouldnt be wasting their time. Funny if thats why Preiss said this to wilhouse.

erexere wrote:: There was an occasion when I thought the word December had something to do with a numeric interpreration, possibly to suggest the number 12 or if it had to do with Christmas Eve, the number 24. I thought it might work as a way to count off paces. Since then, I've reconsidered my approach. I think tbere is no numeric count for anything in this puzzle and the number 982 is just a plain identifier for the train. I now believe the December hint only applies to an idea about being in the winter of ones life. This suggests a person has used almost all of their time in life, rather, one wouldnt be wasting their time. Funny if thats why Preiss said this to wilhouse. Can't say I agree with that.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Can't say I agree with that. Assuming your "that" applies to the Preiss quote, otherwise you might try adding specifics or say why you disagree. Good to see you posting though. Atropos is an interesting character. There really is no guarantee she wont cut your life-thread whenever she feels like. Its all very uncertain... how's that for ambiguities?

Unknown: There's some people who think the cask is not even in Houston. To that I say: "there is a treasure in houston. that's all i can tell you ." and here is the line in question: "after 22 Years all I can say is l ." According to my webmail program (I used nameplanet at that time), the font is "monospace 12 pt". WIlhouse I believe Preiss is using the abruptly cut sentence to illustrate Atropos.

The 982 reference is more than a landmark reference. I think it suggests Preiss expressed some panache with his ability to find anagrams. The whole puzzle as it's been engaged and discussed in these forums has long been heavy on what is or isnt a fit in the Zoo and other features around the Park, but little gets tossed into the ring in terms of each clue being sought for reasons applied as the fair folk of Araby would be concerned. I think the 982 train engine is of interest because the word ENGINE can be rearranged to spell GENNIE or N-GENIE. As we entertain various references, it might be fun to look for these odd little connections to the cultural element. I was just reminded of the New Orleans turqoise of the Fey of France and although nobody seems to happy with my efforts, I realised that my focus on the three Central and South American statues on Basin street always troubled me for not seeming very "France" connected, but then I noticed the name of one of the statues is Francisco. When we try look through the lense of each culture, we may discover a different set of clues for our consideration.

A photo of Hermann Park from 1980...notice no fountains surrounding the obelisk....just bushes and a tree.

Forget everything you know about this verse. It does not describe many places, it all leads to one place. Everything after "take your task to the number nine eight two" The verse is more literal than we initially suspected. Trust me, I've already cracked this nut!

Great! Show us a picture of the casque you have!

Ropace37 wrote:: Forget everything you know about this verse. It does not describe many places, it all leads to one place. Everything after "take your task to the number nine eight two" The verse is more literal than we initially suspected. Trust me, I've already cracked this nut! yup, here we go again

HoustonTxDave wrote:: Hi TexWriter, The zoo theory is one of the strongest....BUT i do have a secondary theory that i put in a request to the Houston Parks and Recreation department for a dig in Hermann Park. I am waiting for a RITE of Access and Permit to dig from their Park Administrator Rick Dewees. ..... The spot just to the front right of the clock tower is the spot i requested to dig. Now that it is the off-season for miller outdoor theater plays....there is less traffic and the kids are out of school for christmas break. I should here from Rick Dewees sometime in early January 2016 on the permit. Any update on the dig? Does anyone have a close-up photo of the bottom of the clock tower? Was the clock tower there in 1981?

Some thoughts while I have the Atropos and MOT in mind: Fortress north : My initial thought is to find an important building, perhaps surrounded by a wall Cold as glass : Whatever it is, it isn't made of glass, but it has the quality of being cold and may involve "looking through" or "far away" (thinking glass as in telescope) Friendship south : I've liked the suggestion of Texas, the Friendship State, but to attribute the quality of friendship to something might indicate something supporting, helpful, assisting in some way Take your task : a chore, something that's maybe unpleasant, but necessary To the number / Nine eight two : a train that is retired, separated from it's rail and cars -why would we take our task to a retired engine? Through the wood : among the several reasons I like the Atropos Key sculpture, the plaque which has the name WOODWARD fits my notion of this line as "in the direction" of "wood", like "forward" or "backward", in this cass, wood + ward No lion fears : "there is no predator to fear, but there is an apex" In the sky the water veers : rain falling directly down is caused to change course as it comes into contact with a sloped surface Small of scale : a short ascent Step across : move from one side to the other Perspective should not be lost : observe a visual alignment as you move In the center of four alike : four things equal in some way, same in measure, or same in type, etc. Small, split, : as in a relationship, a split, may refer to a longing to be back together, or "pine", and small like a needle Three winged and slight : each wing is a separate job, so three winged = three jobs, all involving something which is very slender, such as a thread tended by the three sisters, Clotho, Lachesis, and Atropos What we take to be / Our strongest tower of delight : Pierre (Melville quote) Falls gently / In December night : I think of "final sleep" or "end of the year / final years" Looking back from treasure ground : lay on your back and look upside down at the object There's the spout! : a nozzle, a "nose" A whistle sounds. : a sleeping person may whistle through their nose

New here ... but I live across from Herman Park. I've been walking the park daily to get some ideas and I've read a bit about where things are located. I'd be happy to share photos and thoughts regarding this, but I do have some questions. What is the general consensus regarding the tower of delight? "What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night" Any thoughts on the "Small, split, three winged and slight"? If anyone has any requests for pictures, I walk the park every day.

erexere wrote:: To the number / Nine eight two : given the strength of the train number being 982, I think there is no doubt that this is it. Through the wood : There are "woods" all over the west part of the park and can seem quite scary at night No lion fears : Asking around, apparently the train used to play "follow the yellow brick road" and I think this is a reference to the cowardly lion. Small of scale : Definitely a reference the small tracks Step across : Definitely regarding stepping across the tracks Following up on your post, I'd like to give you my thoughts on particular portions.

I'm not sure there's a popular consensus on the tower quote. Some people might be content to think its purely a literary link to Melville to echo the name of Herman as a confirmer of the Hermann Park area. I tried once to think it was also a zoo clue for the giraffe area. As the quote in the book continues with a leaf falling it would imply a tree is significant. I've thought it could be a tall light tower as "delight" contains "light". Now I'm thinking it may be a clue to Atropos, since the sme page where the quote is found also talks explores the subject of death and mentions the three sisters of Fate. The cowardly lion and the train tracks have often been considered, but I dont feel compelled to go with it.

Something to think about: looking back from treasure ground. Imagine laying on your back on the far side of the Miller Hill so your head is pointing in the direction of Atropos Key. Now tilt your head back and your eyes will shift from looking skyward to looking at the Atropos and that line will be perfect for lining up the tip point of the MOT roof in the center of the diamond shape face. Your head will then be directly above the digsite.

wilhouse wrote:: I guess in my mind, when he told me "it would not be a waste of time to dig there", that was all the credit I needed. wilhouse How do these words specifically apply to that area among the pillars in the CZ and yet BP also said "you have the right location, but wrong area" (not sure of his exact words)? I mean WTF was that about? What critical step in the solution was wilhouse missing that Preiss didnt just say "close enough, here ya go" and ship him the ruby?

anyone know if HoustintxDave doug that hole next to the clock tower? I definitely think its somewhere closer to the children zoo like press hinted at, but with all the work Dave did Id like to at least know if its there or not.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Azy5IRIdzc the park in 1985

that is a spectacular video! thanks tanban! commenting on steph's recent question about "there's the spout!," I've felt it fits the Melville brand of phrase that would be from Moby Dick, as in "thar she blows!," like the spout if a whale, ejecting water from its blowhole. That imagery lends itself to the following line "a whistle blows." In more concrete terms, I think it best fits finding a situation where air passes through a hole, which is why I've liked most the Atropos Key's face which has a hole in the anthropomorphic face portion of the sculpture like the mouth on a face. That diamond shaped hole also serves as shape with exactly four equal sides, that is every side has exactly the same length.

Does anyone know the original location of the Atropos Key? The page says it was cleaned, restored and put in its current place. It might not have moved too much, but it moved some it seem. I love that Atropos holds the key in her hands for peoples fate-i.e. (maybe) your fate for finding the cache. Or what if the cache is right by the old train area? Where exactly was 982 in relation to the train now? NOT the train route, but the actual location of the 982 vintage train. Perhaps there the clues lead right in that area, not necessarily around the lake. Forgive me if the questions have been asked/answered. I am still going through the backlog of this forum.

Atropos Key movement is unclear. The hill was relandscaped in some way also. I thi k its safe to assume the casque was buried on center to the A.Key and MOT, but its unclear what distance it was buried or how deep it would be found if 8t wasnt destroyed in the redo.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Azy5IRIdzc&t=15s from 1985 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UfJWLk1R7E4 - lion fountain has a block that matches the outline of the fountain in section J/K 9/10. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YTSXQor87OY = the childrens zoo in the 1980s heres another https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hq_8bSkTVpA = 34 seconds is the fountain

Thank you tanban, these are fascinating! You can find more Youtube videos by searching for Houston Zoo as well, some from the 1970s and 1980s. Everyone interested in the Houston casque should watch some of these to get a feel for what the place was like. This is a frame from a 1986 video:

I'd like to go against the established line of thinking on V1 for a moment, if only to help shake loose some alternative thoughts: 1) In the current Dewey Decimal system, 9/8/2 is the class/division/summary for Argentina. (Note that the Dewey system is now in its 22nd version, and would've only been in its 19th version when "The Secret" was published.) https://www.oclc.org/en/dewey/features/summaries.html . 2) Argentina has an Embassy in Washington DC, as well as Consulates in Atlanta, Chicago, Houston, Los Angeles, Miami and New York. hxxp://www.embassyofargentina.us/en/con ... he-us.html . In the realm of infinite possibilities, this could also refer to a statue or monument with any links to Argentina, Buenos Aries, etc. (Please note that this is in no way an endorsement of the theoretical "Abroad in America" links to Domingo Faustino Sarmiento, although I have also purchased that book and read it from cover to cover.) 3) Regarding the "take your task..." line, we've all been reading this as a direct instruction. With a little poetic license, *could* this also be interpreted as a variation of the idiom, "take someone to task"? https://www.collinsdictionary.com/us/di ... ne-to-task Anyway, just food for thought. Outside of the Falklands War, April-June 1982, I can't think of anyone/anything who might've had beef with Argentina during this era...

If the podcast is correct and we should see certain landmarks in the picture that coorespond to the the verse, what landmarks do we see that match the Glasswell Art School and the Friendship Pavillion? Are we just meant to stand at the place where the school and fortress is North and the Friendship Pavillion is south of you? If so, is that the SH Statue? Is the Miller Outdoor Theater the location clues or is there something else? In both the Chicago (fence and wall) and Cleveland (planter/wall box) pictures, you can see a landmark in the painting at the dig site so until another one is found, perhaps the dig site is in all of the paintings, we just haven't figured them out yet. One more thing that has bugged me: On the rhino pole, the tree branch is SO thin compared to the other branches above it. It connects directly to the column and goes over it sort of like the hands in the cement on the Hollywood Walk of fame. Is/was there a place where hands are in cement somewhere in either the zoo or Hermann Park?

Why does Preiss use the words "take your task"?

Steph53282 wrote:: If the podcast is correct and we should see certain landmarks in the picture that coorespond to the the verse, what landmarks do we see that match the Glasswell Art School and the Friendship Pavillion? Are we just meant to stand at the place where the school and fortress is North and the Friendship Pavillion is south of you? If so, is that the SH Statue? Is the Miller Outdoor Theater the location clues or is there something else? In both the Chicago (fence and wall) and Cleveland (planter/wall box) pictures, you can see a landmark in the painting at the dig site so until another one is found, perhaps the dig site is in all of the paintings, we just haven't figured them out yet. One more thing that has bugged me: On the rhino pole, the tree branch is SO thin compared to the other branches above it. It connects directly to the column and goes over it sort of like the hands in the cement on the Hollywood Walk of fame. Is/was there a place where hands are in cement somewhere in either the zoo or Hermann Park? I believe we do see certain landmarks and not others. That's the beauty of having to intertwine the Image with the Verse. I see plenty of clues in the Image and verse that put my location at Mecom-Rockwell Colonnade which is between Glassell and Friendship Pavillion. You should be able to see some clues from the treasure spot but not others. Many will lead you to the correct area and others will zero you in. As for the Rhino column (Miller Outdoor Theatre), I see the the leaves as JJP forming a diamond like in Atropos Key indicating Atropos Key in front of the Theatre.

erexere wrote:: Why does Preiss use the words "take your task"? I wondered that as well. Did it mean "Start here" or "End here"?

Take [aim], since the following line identifies the 982 [train]. Training and aiming are synonymous.

I am confused about the RHINO column I have seen old photos of the MOT before the steel top It had white columns on each side of the stage but nothing on top of the columns I have never seen a column with a rhino on top Where exactly was it located?

Doghousereiley wrote:: I have never seen a column with a rhino on top Where exactly was it located? In front of the zoo

In my solve I refer to the Rhino column as representing Miller Outdoor Theatre. I've never actually seen a column with a Rhino head on it.

maltedfalcon wrote:: In front of the zoo I'd be interested to see this Rhino pole pic once uploaded by Wilhouse and Catherwood; links are broken now.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I'd be interested to see this Rhino pole pic once uploaded by Wilhouse and Catherwood; links are broken now. I will ask if he still has it.

sorry posted this in the wrong thread, here it is... from wilhouse

maltedfalcon wrote:: here it is... from wilhouse Thanks MF!

What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently Although we know the source of this line, i think it's okay to assume it's unnecessary to know Melville's Pierre. The fair folk have already mentioned rain falling on an angled roof, "in the sky the water veers", so now it references what seems like snowflakes, unique geometric crystaline structures. Can we describe the roof pattern of Miller Outdoor Theater as having a snowflake-like pattern? I think a visual on it's rooftop measured carefully (falling gently?) through Atropos' spout to a point on the ground is drivable. Preiss does a great job selecting these obscure and colorful quotes. Figuring out why they work is the important part.

erexere wrote:: What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently Although we know the source of this line, i think it's okay to assume it's unnecessary to know Melville's Pierre. The fair folk have already mentioned rain falling on an angled roof, "in the sky the water veers", so now it references what seems like snowflakes, unique geometric crystaline structures. Can we describe the roof pattern of Miller Outdoor Theater as having a snowflake-like pattern? I think a visual on it's rooftop measured carefully (falling gently?) through Atropos' spout to a point on the ground is drivable. Preiss does a great job selecting these obscure and colorful quotes. Figuring out why they work is the important part. You know, taking this off on a tangent, snow in Houston does happen and it is usually huge news. Unfortunately, the last major snow that occurred in Houston prior to the casque burial was in 1960. I doubt that an actual snowfall would be referenced here. Also, while Texans adore the concept of snow, it is unlikely it would be built into the theme of the park and/or puzzle. From the eye of a New Yorker, maybe Preiss could have seen it that way, but to assert that we should glean that from the Image is a stretch.

Looks like snowflakes.

erexere wrote:: Looks like snowflakes. Looks like the Battle Zone tank arcade game from the 1980s too.

In all seriousness, I think it's comparable to a snowflake pattern or a spider web. I think a simultaneous connection is possible. "falling gently" corresponds to a slow falling snowflake but also describes falling into a safety net which is like a spiderweb...though if you're a fly in a web...well...game over man.

Snowflake was the star attraction animal in the Children's zoo in 1981-82 - just sayin

maltedfalcon wrote:: Snowflake was the star attraction animal in the Children's zoo in 1981-82 - just sayin I hate it when you get lliteral about llamas.

gManTexas wrote:: Looks like the Battle Zone tank arcade game from the 1980s How awesome was that.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: How awesome was that.

This is my solve for verse 1: Fortress north cold as glass = Asian pavilion , looks like a fortress to me and cold as glass could refer to a diamond ( ice), building is kind of diamond shaped and cold could be for isolated like cold war Friendship south take your task = Ronald McDonald house ( 1st one built was in Houston) So he is standing at the south end entrance of Hermann Park and starts to proceed north bound To the number nine eight two = the little train that runs around the park, so towards the train station Through the wood no lion fear = goes north through the Zoo In the sky the water veers = The water that shot up out of lake McGovern Small of scale Step across = Cross the small bridge by the train depot heading north Perspective should not be lost = the long reflection pool north of the obelisk In the center of four alike = the pioneer obelisk the four alike are the fountains around the obelisk Small split three winged and slight = each of the fountains that surround the obelisk have 3 not so tall streams of water What we take to be our strongest tower of delight falls gently = the fountain at the SW corner of the obelisk has the tallest stream of water In December night= He seems to be doing his digging late in the day and in December I would expect the leaves to be gone Looking back from the treasure ground there’s the spout a whistle sounds = So he is standing looking at the spot where the treasure lays and behind him the first thing he mentions is the spout which is again the fountain at the SW corner of the obelisk and the next thing is the sound of the train . I can’t say for certain but I think most trains would make a sound if they were to warn people by the obelisk as they go over the bridge So what is he looking at is the big question. I believe he is standing there looking at an oak tree ( lots of symbols of that in the image) and not just any oak tree but the oak tree with the burl on the trunk located on the south edge of the pathway that goes east from the obelisk. If you were facing the spot to dig ( which would be the west side of the tree) then the obelisks fountain would be directly behind you along with the train track and train. If you stand on that pathway by the burled oak and you look towards the obelisk you can see that “L” outline and that diamond shape in the image by the genies waist , this is made by the concrete slabs on the north edge of the pathway closer to the obelisk. To me the genies head gear represents the burl and the fact that there is a twisting in the body represents the twisting of the wood in the burl.

Asian pavilion? Taiwan gave Houston the friendship pavilion which used to be directly east of the Miller lite Theater The obelisk was moved and the new base with fountains was installed In 1982 it did not have the surrounding 4 fountains The 982 was a real life locomotive that was located at the north of the zoo entrance. Your small of scale ? The bridge that is there now (if you are talking about the one on north east corner of lake) was not there in 1982 THe area around the obelisk is covered by crushed granite. In 1982 there were no tiles. There was no boundary of reflecting pool. Grass grew up to the edge. I have posted after several of my Herman park digs. In December most of the leaves are still on the trees. Look at my past post and you can see which type of tree still had leaves. A few trees were just beginning to lose leaves in late December. Most of the trees in the wooded area north east of lake were pines. The were felled by a hurricane in 2001 Most of the area has been replanted so it is quite easy to tell which trees are over 30 years old. there are not many of them still in the park

And there lies the problem too many changes over the years. I still like the theory of the oak tree with the burl ( could be and probably is gone now), and all those oak leaves in the image . Then there is that “L” and diamond shape by the waist of the image that fits the general location I mentioned above. Oh well back to the drawing board!

Another thought. There is a drainage ( manhole),cover by the oak tree that has the burl on it ( 29 degrees 43’ 07” N. 95degrees 23’ 24” W ). I was wondering if there was any writting or an image on it and if the drainage had been updated or the manhole cover had been replaced since 1980. This could be the place where the casque lays when we refer to the line “ Looking back from the treasure ground “, so you have to look down towards the ground as the clue , also that genie could represent water going down a drain like a sewer drain. Another possibility is the central figure could refer to a hands free drinking fountain if on existed in the area.

if you are talking about the manhole to the right of the obelisk in the woods, thats where i dug (when facing obelisk)

i def did not get down 3.5 ft as it was hard as f**k digging there...so many fucking roots...

JoshCornell wrote:: if you are talking about the manhole to the right of the obelisk in the woods, thats where i dug (when facing obelisk) If it’s the one closest to the coordinates above ,then yes and you should be poking on the west side of the manhole cover with your back to the obelisk. How about the bird face in the headgear of the image ( the brown lines and the out line ,looks like a white throated sparrow) any thoughts like bird bath or bird shaped water / drinking fountain etc.

dug on W and S side

Through the wood - Atrpos Key, donated by Patricia Woodward No lion fears - Lions are the king of beasts and fear nothing. This is BP's creative way of referencing Sam Houston's horse Leo. In the sky the water veers - Mecom Fountain Small of scale - Houston Museum of Natural Science Step across - Go to the next block passed the Museum Perspective should not be lost - This line is key, it has nothing to do with the Reflection pool. It ties in with Image 8 visual clues. The image shows that the ruby can be seen by the Persian man (Miller Outdoor Theater stage), The Smoke Spout (Sam Houston Monument), The Camel (Miller Hill), and lines up with our starting point The Rhino Column (George R. Brown Education Center @ Zoo entrance.

Unknown: a·pex ˈāpeks/ noun 1. The top or highest part of something, especially one forming a point. Mr. B. If you ask me, the reason it said No lion fears is because it wants to bring attention to some quality of lion yet have no reason to fear. Lions are known as an example of an apex predator. Perhaps there is an apex but not a predator at the dig site.

Gotcha, and by the way, I really like your idea of "In the sky the water veers". That's cool take on that line in the verse.

I like that you're paying attention. Remember, we're just trying out ideas until we learn its correct. My friend and I were reflecting on the improved acceptability of certain lines when they seem connectable to a single idea. Atropos happens to fit a lot of uncanny if not inventive pieces. It is connectable to the reference page where the Melville quote is found. It's a mythological subject of wasting away or dying, as the skinny thread of life is weaved, measured, and cut by the three sisters (each performing one of three tasks) a possible interpretation for three winged (departmentalization) and slight. The diamond shaped cutout in the face is of four equal sides, son the apex of MOT may be seen through that center of four alike. The other thing we discussed was the Raiders of the Lost Ark premise, given the film was released 15 months before the book publication. I really like that parallel. Other than that, the 982 train might also provide a good idiom, "the end of the line".

Diceycat wrote:: This is my solve for verse 1: Fortress north cold as glass = Asian pavilion , looks like a fortress to me and cold as glass could refer to a diamond ( ice), building is kind of diamond shaped and cold could be for isolated like cold war Friendship south take your task = Ronald McDonald house ( 1st one built was in Houston) So he is standing at the south end entrance of Hermann Park and starts to proceed north bound To the number nine eight two = the little train that runs around the park, so towards the train station Through the wood no lion fear = goes north through the Zoo In the sky the water veers = The water that shot up out of lake McGovern Small of scale Step across = Cross the small bridge by the train depot heading north Perspective should not be lost = the long reflection pool north of the obelisk In the center of four alike = the pioneer obelisk the four alike are the fountains around the obelisk Small split three winged and slight = each of the fountains that surround the obelisk have 3 not so tall streams of water What we take to be our strongest tower of delight falls gently = the fountain at the SW corner of the obelisk has the tallest stream of water In December night= He seems to be doing his digging late in the day and in December I would expect the leaves to be gone Looking back from the treasure ground there’s the spout a whistle sounds = So he is standing looking at the spot where the treasure lays and behind him the first thing he mentions is the spout which is again the fountain at the SW corner of the obelisk and the next thing is the sound of the train . I can’t say for certain but I think most trains would make a sound if they were to warn people by the obelisk as they go over the bridge So what is he looking at is the big question. I believe he is standing there looking at an oak tree ( lots of symbols of that in the image) and not just any oak tree but the oak tree with the burl on the trunk located on the south edge of the pathway that goes east from the obelisk. If you were facing the spot to dig ( which would be the west side of the tree) then the obelisks fountain would be directly behind you along with the train track and train. If you stand on that pathway by the burled oak and you look towards the obelisk you can see that “L” outline and that diamond shape in the image by the genies waist , this is made by the concrete slabs on the north edge of the pathway closer to the obelisk. To me the genies head gear represents the burl and the fact that there is a twisting in the body represents the twisting of the wood in the burl. *smacks head*

guys, the wood no lion fears clearly refers to woods to right of obelisk, as they are IN THE SHAPE OF AFRICA...lions are kings of the jungle in africa...

its in those woods around where the bend in the track (only bend back then mind you) was...bw 4 trees of which 3 are winged elms...not easy to find these days.

Anyone know if/when/why Sam Houston became known as “The lion of Texas?” One of his many tributes to him is a statute called a “tribute to courage” located on interstate 45 in the Sam Houston national forest. A wood no lion fears? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Tribute_to_Courage

jayheedan1 wrote:: Anyone know if/when/why Sam Houston became known as “The lion of Texas?” It’s the name of a 2016 one-man play based on his life. That’s where the name came from. There’s no indication of anyone going by that name before then. hxxp://www.lionoftexas.com

the link is from 1994 too...

jayheedan1 wrote:: Anyone know if/when/why Sam Houston became known as “The lion of Texas?” One of his many tributes to him is a statute called a “tribute to courage” located on interstate 45 in the Sam Houston national forest. A wood no lion fears? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Tribute_to_Courage Jay, this is cool to hear, I've never heard the lion reference before. I believe the wood no lion fears is a reference to Atropos Key being donated by Patricia "Wood"ward and Sam Houston's horse Leo. Which also ties into the Spout....you can see Sam Houston on his horse Leo spouting an order while pointing in the direction of his attack. Sam Houston was a total bad ass. Looking back from treasure ground There's the spout! A whistle sounds.

Ok, one week later I'll jump in again. Is it possible in your mind that the word "slight" is a little creative word play by BP? What if the word slight is actually two words? As in stop light..... "S"top""light??? Could "Three winged and slight" be referring to the actual location of the casque? The stop lights at the intersections (in the center of four alike) near the Mecom-Rockwell Colonnade are 3-winged (covers over each light). The ruby in Image 8 has the ruby (red light) with a shadow that appears to be a "hood or cover" like a traffic light. Thoughts? Oh, and it's my world Ren,...what do you think my friend?

Unknown: what do you think my friend Well since you asked so nicely, I'll tell you what I have told every other single person with a theory who has approached me with it. Sure, why not? Now what? I'll suggest to you, my friend, (as has been suggested to me, and as I have suggested to others) that once you can answer that question intelligently, you will stop going down personal rabbit holes.

JoshCornell wrote:: guys, the wood no lion fears clearly refers to woods to right of obelisk, as they are IN THE SHAPE OF AFRICA...lions are kings of the jungle in africa... I know people will give me flak for this, but this is one thing i agree with you on. I’ve had this on my path almost constantly since I started,

JoshCornell wrote:: its in those woods around where the bend in the track (only bend back then mind you) was...bw 4 trees of which 3 are winged elms...not easy to find these days. If it was actually there, it’s gone, now. Several of us scoured the area as a team and turned up nothing. I don’t think that’s what it refers to, anyway.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Now what? Easy answer....time to probe.

Unknown: Easy answer....time to probe. Easy to say, but in reality, very hard to do. Far be it from me to spoil anyone's fun, but in the real world, probing is hard...and ultimately pointless unless you are willing and able to dig.

Probing may work in an ideal setting...but ideal is broken.

Guardian wrote:: I know people will give me flak for this, but this is one thing i agree with you on. I’ve had this on my path almost constantly since I started, but i know how to estimate exact spot, where exactly did you look...plot it on a map and show me...how did you check? (please dont say probed...probing is 100000000% useless...take it from someone who has.)

very possibly disturbed though, but i wouldnt say certainly.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Easy to say, but in reality, very hard to do. Far be it from me to spoil anyone's fun, but in the real world, probing is hard...and ultimately pointless unless you are willing and able to dig. Agreed, definitely hard to do.

erexere wrote:: Probing may work in an ideal setting...but ideal is broken. How difficult is it to probe in the soil at the Colonnade? I mean will a probe go in the ground with a good press down or do you have to lay your chest on it?

about 6 inches maybe 8 if it has rained

While not strictly in Verse 1, there is a reference to the Peri in both the Passage to the New World and The Vanishing. I was looking at this old article linked from the Wiki site and this stone wall with the words Perennial Gardens jumped right out at me. With the overgrown vines, it sure looks like PERI. hxxp://offcite.org/wp-content/uploads/s ... _Cite3.pdf

I like the fact that the Friendship Pavillion in Herman park is also visible in the photo

Who is that statue of?

Most people know that the "What we take to be / Our strongest tower of delight" lines come from Melville's "Pierre." Well, there's another book with that title (by Maurice Sendak), and in it Pierre has "no lion fears." I'm reading more children's literature these days, so I tend to notice illusory links all over the place...