While I'm currently stumped by the Philadelphia/Pittsburgh picture (#4), I'm throwing a new idea out there for verse 2.  I'm thinking Canada (a sovereign people), specifically Quebec (want to be a sovereign people).  here is the verse and my thoughts: At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. 1. Cap Diamant (Cape Diamond) is in Quebec City and there are gemstones in the rocks there. 2.  Le Chateau Frontenac in on Cape Diamond and is a famous palatial hotel ( www.hotels.net/quebec-city/fairmont-le- ... -12522.htm ). 3.  There are steps down from Chateau Frontenac (I don't know how many) to a promenade where there are cannons, guards and statues, any of which might be standing guard. It's not much, but it would seem to be worth exploring further.

I have a theory linking this verse to pic 9 (The Gnome/Netherlands) for the St. Louis treasure.  I wrote an extensive post on the pic 9 thread and (I hope) that works together with this post. --At the place where jewels abound Forest Park; Jewel Box gardens; Vandeventer Place Gate structure, which was backdrop for former rose garden. --Fifteen (letter O?) rows ("rose"?) down to the ground If the VP Gate was the backdrop, then that would mean one would see it looking down a slight slope toward the VP Gate when standing near the Jewel Box.  It could mean rows of roses, and "the ground" could be the treasure ground.  I hope to find an old photo from when the rose garden was still there. --In the middle of twenty one (letter U) From end to end The Vandeventer Place Gates (a Dutch name/gnome) are U-shaped like the eye-wrinkles on the man in pic 9.  In the middle (rounded part) of the U there is an opening where once were gates, since donated to Cochran's Hospital (formerly/presently a vet's hsp.). I'd like to see the gates to clarify (or not) the "15 rows" line.  Or, this line could mean "in the middle of the straight ends," ie-out in the space between. --Only three stand watch There are now ONLY three lion heads on an old lamppost where once were 4 lions.  At some point one was stolen, and that vacant spot is as rusty as the present lions and the rest of the post. Moreover, this lamppost is located next to the Vandeventer Place Gate, above the U and very near it, lined up with the opening in the middle of the U (where the gates were). --As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours sound: Muny opera?  the fountain in the garden? hours: there was a round flower bed with a giant functioning clock in the middle.  The color of the flowers spelled: "Hours and flowers soon fade away."  The clock is gone, but the sentence survives on a plaque.  I saw the big clock-flower bed in a book dated 1985.  (On that note, the Vandeventer gates were removed in 1985.) The clock was installed in 1951.  Thus the photo in the book doesn't say what was up in 1980-82. There was also a strange sundial in the gardens. Here is a sovereign people (crowned St. Louis statue in front of Art Museum: Apotheosis of St. Louis) Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! TEMPORARY World's Fair PALACES (1904) Gnomes admire (Lowland Gnomes, pic 9) Fays delight (French, St. Louis) The namesakes meeting Near this site. meeting of the Miss. and Miss. rivers?? Well, that is the idea, although you may have to couple ot with my long post on the pic 9 thread to get the full picture. Please critique and assist.  (I have to logout.  My daughter is crying.) --Johann

Unknown: While I'm currently stumped by the Philadelphia/Pittsburgh picture (#4), frishkie, dont know if you have read all the threads yet (yes, there are many) but P4 was linked to V4 and the casque was located by our very own egbert in Cleveland OH. I too am leaning (for the time being) towards Canada with this V....especially with, like you mentioned, the "sovereign people".

Fox, Frishkie's post is from February!  8) Johann, I like your ideas.  It would be nice to see pics of these things, though, especially the lions who stand watch.  Any way to do that?

I may be able to use my wife's digital camera if she shows me how, or I may be able to get her to come along and then figure out how to post them.  I'll see what I can do. Fox--If you can find a solid Canada link, that would help me, of course, by confirming or denying my theory before I set shovel to dirt. --Johann

egads egbert...you are correct.  I didnt even notice the month that was posted.  My deepest apologies  :-X . No confirmers yet johann.  dig away.......

Johann, Is this what you are talking about? hxxp://stlouis.missouri.org/neighborhoods/history/grand/vandeventer12.htm

Yes, xlurker, that is it; yet, it is the east entrance that is located at the Jewel Box (link to photo at bottom of the link you posted).  It is hard to see in the photo that the east entrance is rounded like a shallow U.  Thank you for posting the link.

If this verse goes with P9 (see image 9 thread): In the middle of twen  "t"  yone. Does hole 7 have a 15' or a 15 timber elevated tee box? Would it be buried in the middle of a tee box? Nah.

Any idea is worth exploration.

In accordance with the golfing idea, most golf club heads have grooves in them.  Can this be the 15 rows down to the ground?  The thing is that the number of grooves changes with he club chosen and coresponding loft of the club.  Not only can it be read in the middle of twen "t" yone, but it could also be ready , in the middle of twenty, one.  T is the twentieth letter.

An idea to consider, Spinner.  Where is this casque?  Aarrgghh.

Since this V has been tossed about as possibly linking to N.O. and more specifically, Storyland in City Park, i thought i would put this up.  Not sure if it is like this all year round or just during the holidays (when this pic was taken).. "only three stand watch" hxxp://www.pbase.com/bre/image/36730174 nice little grassy area in center  lol

Hey fox, the picture you show is storyland at the time of Celebration in the Oaks.  During Christmas time all the oak trees and trees in the park are lit with Christmas lights.  Everything is the same the rest of the year except the lights in the trees. Hope this helps.

Read my post for Image 9. I have a detailed disection here. Tron

"At a place where jewels abound" current theories being explored:  Jewlery Box, Crown I do not think a name of Diamond, Ruby, Croix, etc... works here since it is stating jewels which by its vagueness would assume variety. Are there any other ideas? Being partial to my idea (just my nature)  why would he later use the term palaces if he didn't want you to be steer towards royalty? Lets discuss.... I feel this is ripe for picking.

"Here is a soverign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night!" Why the exclamation point?  Only one or two other exclamation points in the verses.  Can this be used for sarcasm, emphasis, surprise?? These peopel are not sheltering themselves, their wholeselves, just their heads and ONLY at night.  These soverign people by defiition are free to go about their will and they seem to waste their resources over building for something seemingly minimal. That in essence is a commentary on "The Sport of Kings", Horseracing, a waste of money termed as sport.  Horseracing, specifically the kentucy derby was an import from England.  It is a direct model of the Ebson Derby. Do we have soverign people in the United States, royalty?  Yes, I originally thought that was pointing to Canada, but I think now that would be too direct a clue.  And besides, no one has seceded and Canada is more socialist than other coutries, esp. the United States. The only other soverign people aroud are the Native Americans.

For a good article of what I am talking about for those who do not know horse racing... read this: hxxp://www.boston.com/globe/search/stor ... ntucky.htm After reading that, image our poet selecting the location going there and thinking about what to write.

head - 4a.  One of a number;individual Head of horses is used as frequency as the well known head of cattle.

Soon to be confirmed by digging. Ties to image nine. Both French and English connections to immigration.

Good luck Trohn....make sure to take lots of pix and keep us all updated! Is casque #3 close to falling?  wheeee

"Gnomes admire Fays delight Their namesakes meeting Near this site" Namesakes is not an anagram instruction nor is it a joining of something. It is always used to mean Ancestry. So the ancestry of both gnomes and fays. I know that Druid Hill is close to Churchill Downs. Does this fit? Ideally I would like a Dwarf or an Elf. Or perhaps, the namesake meeting should be between admire and delight... that namesake would defintiely qualify as 'Keen'... and of course Keenland is down the road. Thoughts?

I don't understand your latest entry, Trohn. It's "The" namesakes meeting, not "Their." I don't read it to mean ancestry at all. Here it could mean any two things with the same name, like Highway 22 and Interstate 22. Or Little River and Little Creek. Or Kansas City and Kansas City. Something along those lines.

The namesakes meeting...near this site. I misread it, good point.

So, The namesakes refer to things or people with the same name. i.e. The vice presidents of Lincoln and Kennedy. (both Johnson) Seattle Slew has sired many offspring that went on to be great thoroughbreds, but back in 1982 he was only eight.  He probably hadn't gained that reputation yet, but he was put out to stud next door to Churchill Downs. hmmm...

forest_blight wrote:: I don't understand your latest entry, Trohn. It's "The" namesakes meeting, not "Their." I don't read it to mean ancestry at all. Here it could mean any two things with the same name, like Highway 22 and Interstate 22. Or Little River and Little Creek. Or Kansas City and Kansas City. Something along those lines. I've always thought about the namesakes line referring to a place that is a combination of the names of two or more people. For example Lewis and Clark park. The namesakes (Lewis and Clark) meeting (maybe meeting to leave on their expedition) near this site (Lewis and Clark park) {<-- That's just a made up example not a suggestion for the real meaning}. But that's an interesting example about the highway or river though, I hadn't considered the names of rivers or other things that could meet (railroads, states, trails, ??)

How about this one.... The namesakes meeting Winston S Churchill met his wife Clementine Hoosier just across the Ohio River in Indiana!!

I'm kinda thinking "namesakes meeting" might mean that the park(?) is at or near the site of a fair (gnomes and fays are "fair folk"). Something like a World's Fair or one of the big Exhibitions from early in the 20th century.  This also kinda fits the description of sovereign nations building palaces to shelter them for a night.  Countries would have a pavilion for their exhibit, and would tear it down afterwards. Leaning right now towards the Palace of Fine Arts in SF.  It's a reconstruction of a building from the Panama-Pacific International Exhibition (I think that's the right name).  The tallest feature of the exhibition was the now-destroyed Tower of Jewels...... Pine

Trohn and SoonerFan - Churchhill/Hoosier and Lewis/Clark aren't namesakes. "Namesakes" are people, places, or things that have the SAME name.

forest_blight, in my example I wasn't saying Lewis & Clark are namesakes, I was saying "Lewis & Clark" (the people) would be the namesakes of "Lewis & Clark" (a park). That's just the way I initially read it, but I've come with zero on that angle so I'll probably start looking at it as you had suggested. Pine_Tree, I like the World's Fair notion. I remember awhile back researching the World's Fair in St Louis quite a bit. Don't recall how much of that was discussed on the forum.

Speaking of namesakes, didn't the football St Louis Cardinals and the Cardinals baseball teams play in St Louis in 82'? Edit: They did.  The football team moved to Arizona in 88'. hxxp://www.football.com/history/index.shtml Keiner Plaza?

Boogieman, FB, Fox, Sooner, et. al.... "The namesakes meeting, near this site." As pointed out, THE refers to not gnomes and fays because then the article would be the plural possive THEIR. THE refers to the site where the casque is buried. AFTER Churchill married his wife, then they woulod both be CHURCHILLS. Mr and MRS Churchill  are THE NAMESAKES whom MET near THIS SITE ie near CHURCHILL DOWNS and in FACT they did! The Churchill family of the racetrack has no realtion of Winston Samuel Churchill future Prime Minister.  A coincidence, yes.  Over a hundred years ago, yes. Pointed out in this solve, yes.

Not quite sure where you are going Trohn, or even how you started.  I would be the first to eat crow however, if you do find the next casque.  Personally tho, i think you are way off track.

I am now at a loss to explain the solve any clearer except with "SEE."

A couple of shots of the location. With any luck, this will be extracted next week. (assuming I can have it done by the supervisor there) If I need to travel, it may be three weeks from now. Enjoy the photo and see the verse. Much has changed here in twenty years, but much has stayed the same. Know that the maximum number of horse allowed in the Derby is twenty. The right hand side of the photo is closest to the park entrance. This is easy public access. And the image of the checker boards.... Head, Neck, Two Lengths. (References the tote board (A Checked Board) above the stalls - which has been upgraded since 1982 - I know Pepsi didn't sponor it back then) *Much documented construction in the target area in 1985 and currently between 2003 - 2006 - including bricking over dirt*

Unknown: just thought i'd throw out another idea on verse 2. at the place where jewels abound... manhattan's diamond district....fifteen rows down to the ground in the middle of twenty-one from end to end... 6th st and 5th ave...washington square park. only three stand watch... 3 people statuetized; washington (2), holley, and garibaldi. gnomes admire fays delight (fay's) (fay wray?) pg 193 ... the namesakes meeting near this site...2 washingtons on either side of washington arch at the park entrance. just thought somebody might like to play with this. have a good day! (oh yeah, it's located at -73.9975, 40.7309) adoks53 over at tweleve.org has some intriguing observations about Washington Square Park, a place we've previously raised in conjunction with Image 12: As for namesakes meeting, Washington Sq. N intersects Washington Sq. E, which intersects with both Washington Sq. S and Washington Pl. Sovereign people may refer to chess kings and queens; Wikipedia says, "Built-in chess tables on the southwest corner encourage outdoor playing along with throngs of watchers ... The Washington Square tables form the cornerstone of what is called Manhattan's "chess district," as the area around the park (Thompson Street, between West 3rd and Bleecker Streets) has a number of chess shops in addition to the playing location in the park. Also, the renowned Marshall Chess Club is nearby at 23 West 10th Street." And, troubling for us: "As of 2005, Greenwich Village is embroiled in a controversy over the NYC Parks Department's proposed redesign plan, which would cost roughly 16 million dollars. The most controversial aspect of the proposed plan is a four-foot (1.2 m) fence to be built around the park. Other debated points include the relocation of landmarks such as the Garibaldi statue and the fountain, raising the entire park to street level, and the fact that the park's history as a cemetery means that renovations may "disturb hallowed ground." In July 2005, a lawsuit was filed against the Parks Department, arguing that their plan to redesign the park is "arbitrary, capricious, unreasonable and illegal."" Hundreds and hundreds of pictures of Washington Square Park, every tiny detail: hxxp://www.pbase.com/hjsteed/wsp_fall

Unknown: just thought i'd throw out another idea on verse 2. at the place where jewels abound... manhattan's diamond district....fifteen rows down to the ground in the middle of twenty-one from end to end... 6th st and 5th ave...washington square park. only three stand watch... 3 people statuetized; washington (2), holley, and garibaldi. gnomes admire fays delight (fay's) (fay wray?) pg 193 ... the namesakes meeting near this site...2 washingtons on either side of washington arch at the park entrance. just thought somebody might like to play with this. have a good day! (oh yeah, it's located at -73.9975, 40.7309) adoks53 over at tweleve.org has some intriguing observations about Washington Square Park, a place we've previously raised in conjunction with Image 12: As for namesakes meeting, Washington Sq. N intersects Washington Sq. E, which intersects with both Washington Sq. S and Washington Pl. Sovereign people may refer to chess kings and queens; Wikipedia says, "Built-in chess tables on the southwest corner encourage outdoor playing along with throngs of watchers ... The Washington Square tables form the cornerstone of what is called Manhattan's "chess district," as the area around the park (Thompson Street, between West 3rd and Bleecker Streets) has a number of chess shops in addition to the playing location in the park. Also, the renowned Marshall Chess Club is nearby at 23 West 10th Street." And, troubling for us: "As of 2005, Greenwich Village is embroiled in a controversy over the NYC Parks Department's proposed redesign plan, which would cost roughly 16 million dollars. The most controversial aspect of the proposed plan is a four-foot (1.2 m) fence to be built around the park. Other debated points include the relocation of landmarks such as the Garibaldi statue and the fountain, raising the entire park to street level, and the fact that the park's history as a cemetery means that renovations may "disturb hallowed ground." In July 2005, a lawsuit was filed against the Parks Department, arguing that their plan to redesign the park is "arbitrary, capricious, unreasonable and illegal."" Hundreds and hundreds of pictures of Washington Square Park, every tiny detail: hxxp://www.pbase.com/hjsteed/wsp_fall

"The namesakes meeting Near this site." Kentucky Derby: Churchill Downs Track: Churchill Downs Louisville, KY Distance: 1 1/4 miles Purse: $1 million Record: 1:59 2/5 (Secretariat, 1973) There's no way possible that [glow=red,2,300]John and Henry Churchill [/glow] could have envisioned that their family name would go down in infamy back in 1874 . All they did was unload a piece of land that was part of Kentucky's declining stock farms to Col. M. Lewis Clark. Only a year after this acquisition, Clark's brand-new Louisville Jockey Club served as host to an estimated 10,000 spectators for the first Kentucky Derby on May 17, 1875, when Aristides ran to glory. It wasn't until the Louisville Commercial newspaper used the name "Churchill Downs" on a recap of the ninth Derby that [glow=red,2,300]the historic track got its namesake[/glow]. Churchill, taken from Clark's uncles' name who sold him the land, and Downs, from an English-term for an expanse of grassy upland used for grazing and racing. It's been the name associated with the place to be on the first Saturday in May ever since. Clark, who studied racing in Europe for two years before settling in Louisville, wisely fashioned his club after the great races of England . He modeled the Clark Handicap after the English St. Leger, the Kentucky Oaks after the Epsom Oaks for three-year-old fillies and the Kentucky Derby after the Epsom (or English) Derby. At first the Derby was set at one mile 880 yards compared to the Epsom's one mile 881 yards, but was later changed to the 1 ¼ mile distance that remains today. *1 1/4 miles = 10 lengths* *a set of races is called a meet*

"At the place where jewels abound 15 rows down to the ground" hxxp://www.churchilldowns.com/visit_the ... 12003.html So you all can review the changes here.... Gate 15 is located between gates 10 and gates 17 (duh)Along where the new steel cover walkway is seen being built.  It puts you behind the paddock.  For orientation purposes, sitting at one of the bench tables, your back to the paddock, you would be facing the clubhouse with the spires and the race track beyond that.

FWIW- I would love to have someone explain this verse to me without using this site AND making it a coherent progression. While being very helpful and very interested, the people at CHD are looking at a nearly one hundred percent certainty to lift up newly placed bricks. "As the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours, here is a place where a sourveign people build palaces to shelter their heads for a night" I would be happy to shift my attention.

In this verse, jewels and namesakes are plural not possesive. I would agree that a possessive form is important to the solve.

Fenix- open for discussion sticking strickly to the verse.... Tell me a place -  ( At a place )  (This appears at the beginning of verse two and at the end of verse 7) with many many similar items that are very valuable  ( jewels abound ) a distinctly diferent purpose at this place between the afternoon versus the night a place with a large public gathering  ( sounds of friends ) a place where the public admires and gets delight a place which is known independently from its location ( namesakes recognition) a place that is run by royalty ( a sovereign people )

Fenix- open for discussion sticking strickly to the verse.... Tell me a place -  ( At a place )  (This appears at the beginning of verse two and at the end of verse 7) with many many similar items that are very valuable  ( jewels abound ) a distinctly diferent purpose at this place between the afternoon versus the night a place with a large public gathering  ( sounds of friends ) a place where the public admires and gets delight a place which is known independently from its location ( namesakes recognition) a place that is run by royalty ( a sovereign people )

Disneyland comes to mind....

Trohn, I think your list of requirements is sticking a little *too* strickly to the verse. For example "where jewels abound" could be a phrase on plaque or monument in the casque location, or maybe words in a poem or book where the authors name or a fictional place in the story is related to the casque location, like with Hermann park. "A sovereign people" could also mean all sorts of things, not just royalty. That said, I don't have a clue where this verse is leading so I'm certainly not saying your ideas aren't correct, just that other ideas/possible places may not fit the definition of verse that you've used.

Trohn, I think your list of requirements is sticking a little *too* strickly to the verse. For example "where jewels abound" could be a phrase on plaque or monument in the casque location, or maybe words in a poem or book where the authors name or a fictional place in the story is related to the casque location, like with Hermann park. "A sovereign people" could also mean all sorts of things, not just royalty. That said, I don't have a clue where this verse is leading so I'm certainly not saying your ideas aren't correct, just that other ideas/possible places may not fit the definition of verse that you've used.

I always felt that the "sounds of friends fills the afternoon hours' was referring to a college football game on a Saturday afternoon. "Namesakes meeting near this site" being the nickname of a team whose arena or stadium was nearby the casque.  Any nicknames in college ball that match up with any fays or gnomes?  Preferably American Indian? ( Palaces meaning tepees maybe?)

I agree with the last three posts in that a large gathering of people would be involved for entertainment purposes. Stadiums, Amusements Parks, etc.. Yes, I am sticking close to the verse because as with the other solves, read in the proper perspective, the verses are exact. I am tending to restrict "soverign people" to royalty because of the approximity of the term "palaces".  With these two terms together, the only thing that fits is royalty. I do not think that this verse use "A place where jewels abound" as read from a plaque by the simply realization that 'a place where' and 'abound' are phrasing that is used in other verses in other solves.  If this were to be a quote from a location marker, I believe he would not have repeated the phrasing elsewhere.

hi from a friend... still think the sovereign people could be the u.n. delegates in ...manhattan, by washington park with the two statues of washington (the namesakes) on the arch. also, check my post on the other site from june 9, regarding v10. i think you'll like it!

Unknown: While it could still be our location jewels may not be referring to the cask/jewel at all. Fenix writes: That is interesting; I never thought it referred to the casque. It's plural, for one thing, and the jewel wouldn't be there - a casque would. Of course, if one permits latitude in the definition of "jewel"... There is that neighborhood in New Orleans, NNW of Jackson Square on the shore of Lake Pontchartrain, where all the streets are named after jewels/gemstones. I would say that is a place where jewels abound. As the sound of friends / Fills the afternoon hours could be a reference to a nearby school playground. During afternoon recess, the sound of friends would be noticeable. Alternatively, he could mean "friends" in the Quaker sense. Even more deviously, "Fills the afternoon hours" could mean to take the letters P and M and put letters in the middle and make another word. Maybe I've been doing too many cryptic crosswords. I believe The namesakes meeting / Near this site will not be obvious until after we've already figured out what is in the vicinity. A confirmer for later; otherwise it is too easy to retro-fit a plausible (but wrong) location. As for royalty being the only possible interpretation of "sovereign," remember that the U.S. government recognizes some American Indian tribes as nations. A "sovereign" is also a pound coin, a coin that dates back to 1489. So in the same way that "cast in copper" refers to the back of a penny, "a sovereign people" could be an oblique reference to someone who has appeared on a sovereign (or any large denomination coin?) in the past. Finally, it might be worth locating all instances of foreign soil located within the contiguous 48 states. For example, there is a small cemetery on Ocracoke Island in NC that is officially British soil. Most likely, though, this is simply a reference to something that has words like king, queen, royals, etc. in its name.

Yet another theory, inspired by my present circumstances... We know there is a casque buried in Canada. Montreal has the "Tam-Tam Jam," a hippie music-fest enjoyed by Montrealers every Sunday afternoon near a statue of Sir George-Étienne Cartier in Mount Royal Park. The word "Tam-Tam" could be loosely interpreted as "namesakes meeting," and the sovereign connection to "Mount Royal" is obvious. The music would then be the "sound of friends," and the temporary shelters they build for the event would be their "palaces." Mount Royal Park, incidentally, was designed by Frederick Law Olmsted. I'm in Montreal at the moment for a conference. So if anyone has any good ideas, now is the time to let me know.

Unknown: I tried hard to link the Mount Royal area of Montreal to this verse but it never seemed to really work. I believe they are still doing some work on the statue and that area right now but haven't been by there in a couple weeks so i'm not sure. Unknown: It will indeed remind you of a Dead concert on Sundays.  I'm really not sure about the shelters you mentioned as I have never noticed them. The statue is still cordoned off, and the ground around it looks serious disturbed. There is a nearby row of old trees lining the street, but I don't know if there are 21 from end to end. I drove up to the top of the Mount today - the view is terrific. A product of wishful thinking, probably. Ah well, it was worth a try!

"From end to end" Why this specification after in the middle of twenty-one? Because twenty-one is not a reference to a spot but a collection of twenty-one things. So, in the middle of twenty-one ends. (to ends)

Wow, heck of a lot of activity since I last visited this site.  Trohn, pretty many posts there, good job trying to figure this one out, a word of caution though, you have solved the puzzle to fit Churchill Downs, and seem to have tried to make the puzzle fit your solution, not the other way around.  Step back, take a breath, and watch me pull a casque out of my hat. I think I have solved it.  I have used every clue available in both the picture and the verse, and it all fits.  I need to do a bit of a road trip, and my time spent on 'A treasures trove' has taught me not to give it all up too quickly, or there is a gold rush mentality.  I promise to reveal my solution whether I find it there or not.  I am however, confident enough that I am bringing a camera with me.  Wish me luck, because finding this gets me on the second season of 'Treasure Hunters'. Peace.

Unknown: I think I have solved it. I have used every clue available in both the picture and the verse, and it all fits. I need to do a bit of a road trip, and my time spent on 'A treasures trove' has taught me not to give it all up too quickly, or there is a gold rush mentality. Unknown: I promise to reveal my solution whether I find it there or not. I am however, confident enough that I am bringing a camera with me. Wish me luck, because finding this gets me on the second season of 'Treasure Hunters'. Not on this forum, friend. It might get you a few people to help dig, though. Wow, spinner. Good luck! Take lots of pictures. I'm rooting for you.

spinner wrote:: I need to do a bit of a road trip, and my time spent on 'A treasures trove' has taught me not to give it all up too quickly, or there is a gold rush mentality. haven't you been around this site enough to know that nothing is more untrue than that statement, at least here? wilhouse

"And he's off -->" I can not comment on a solve that has no details. If the clues fit the solve, then that is where it is. As I said, I welcome someone to answer the questions the verse poses and present a solve. "The namesakes meeting near this site" "Give me a name Senator, just one name.  This can all be over now.  I need a name."

spinner-- Can you at least tell us the city?  If you want some assistance, please let us know.

Unknown: I think I have solved it.  I have used every clue available in both the picture and the verse, and it all fits. Best of Luck Spinner.  When you find it--take loads of pictures! What picture are you pairing with Verse 2?

Dang, Dang, Dang. Big Pig on a Dig found squat.  Wrong kind of shovel for the earth though, but I must be missing some smaller clue.  I am at work, but plan to spend some slack time posting my pics and compiling the solves, hopefully today.  I would have bet money on it, but, alas, I would have been paying out.  I can get you within 10 Yards. of it, I am pretty sure, but again, there must be some small clue that I am missing. I believe that the Casque is in Forest Park, in St. Louis Missiouri, just east of the Jewel Box.  The missing piece of the puzzle that clicked in for hyper verification was the statement "15 rows down to the ground".  I believe either Wilhouse or Johanne made a post some time back alluding to the clock made out of roses that used to sit next to the Jewel box.  I finally pin-pointed where this used to be through photographs and a friends grandmother.  In the direction of the 3, which can either be taken as 15 minute mark, or 1500 hours millitary time, there are indeed, our 3 friends that stand watch in the middle of 21.  The 'spin' I put on it, although some of us have dug there before, is to try and get a little under the platform that the lamp post is on, thinking it might have been set back a bit.  Nothing in front, Nothing in the rear, and a case of the he-be-ge-be's digging away with an officer on horseback booking past me at a full gallop.  Again, the rose clock is positioned perfectly for the original solve of the lamp post in the middle of the U shaped Vandeventer Gate, on which, there are 3 lions heads (at one point there were 4).  The 'blob in the pic' located on his left, your right, just underneath and right of the dog leg may hold a key.  This shape reflects a portion of the garden, at the apex which sat the rose clock.  The X or 10 oh his upper left, your upper right, chest may also have some meaning that I did not add in.  Well, sorry to get your hopes up, but my dream is shattered.  Doesn't anyone have a ground penetrating radar we can borrow?  It could be anywhere there in a 100 square yard area, we could just be missing it.  The real problem with the site is that it used to be the east entrance to the worlds fair, and about 6" down, there is this old surface that makes probing almost impossible, cause you hit something everywhere you try.  A method of probing to see where this surface has been broken up would almost make more logical sense than probing for a hard spot.  Who wants to rent a bob-cat with me, I need a look out.  Send all your left over fireworks to me, well put a charge on this puppy and let her rip. Arg.  The sweet feeling of defeat.

hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=2919.0 Started a new topic for now, most of it is here, together, Image, Verse, and Solution.

hi all---- I had put my thoughts for verse 2 in image 9 posting-- but will put it here again for talk of other meanings of it. at the place where jewels abound fifteen rows down to the ground in the middle of twenty-one from end to end only three stand watch as the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours here is a sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night! gnomes admire fays delight the namesakes meeting near this site. IF the image 9 clues give us the mount stephen house as a starting point---this is how I think the verse fits--- at the place where jewels abound-- because this is a wealthy home,(now club) many jewels could be here.-- either as jewelry or just possessions in the place itself. fifteen rows down to the ground--- from the house go down the 15 steps in the middle of twenty-one from end to end-------------this is what will give the exact location to dig-- determined from the site itself.  it doesn't look like there were ever 21 trees here or enough of those stone bases, so something else. only three stand watch--- I feel this is another link to the image 9.  the 3 legeaters on the lamp post.  if the 3 stand watch(from one side)-- could there be 21 blocks(brick like)going back to the house above that one grassy patch? as the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours---- it is now a club, where you meet with friends here is a sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night!-----------sovereign means elite/supreme--- this area is known for the mansions they built to live in.-- a night?-- I think it just is that its their homes not museums or anything more.-- like -'these palaces were their homes!' gnomes admire fays delight----------- just a gold reference mentioned by niteowl9?-- for another link to image 9 with gold squares? the namesakes meeting near this site.---------this meeting place(club) is named after the once owner-stephen I feel a lot of the verse is just confirming the house(or any place) as a starting location.  This verse doesn't have many points to go in sequence.--just describes the surroundings or location known from the image. sixer

Hard to put this v in Montreal, after all the St Lou stuff but got to keep this open. gnomes admire fays delight the namesakes meeting near this site. Still think this is referencing more than one.  Gnomes, fays, and namesakes.  It's almost like two teams, The Gnomes vs The Fays and they meet close to this leg-eater. Another possibility is the Montreal Expos who played at the Olympic Stadium in Montreal from the 70's until last year.  They are the namesakes of the Montreal Exposition of 67'.  How far is the stadium from Club Mount? edit: Expos and Alouettes (were Concordes in 81'and 82') played at Olympic.  Not far and can be seen from Mount royal Park.

Bumping this up to use as the discussion on Image 9 continues to be hashed out.. Keep in mind:  "AT THE PLACE WHERE JEWELS ABOUND" This is the first line and the clue to where you need to begin your search. As far as I am concerned, we have had only two answers to this  line:  "Jewel Box" and "Crown" I tend to like crown because it matches with the jewel in the hat image. Please add on to any other interpretation to this line.

There was a time when some thought this might refer to the area of New Orleans just NW of City Park, along Lake Pontchartrain - a neighborhood where all the streets are named after jewels and gemstones.

Who build Palaces to shelter Their Heads For A Night ! This  I  Take as  A reference to an Elaborate Hotel . A nice twist to describe a hotel I think . It came to me  while Looking into the adams Mark Hotel .  What do you think ?

Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! (for a night!  Why the exclamation mark? Vehement?) Sounds like an Indian reservation to me.  Maybe. sovereign-superior to all others: cheif: greatest: supreme whether by power, authority or rank.  Independent of others (sovereign state). palace-official residence of a king, emperor: any large magnificent house or building:  large ornate building of entertainment. Know what?  Sounds like Montreal.  I know that was said by somebody way before the legeater was found.

I agree it would be a very ornate place . It's the ..... For A  Night !  That gets me . It seems to imply Temporary Housing , Just for a stay over .

"a head" is a horse or a member of a herd (cattle/cow) "palaces!" are barns or stables "a soverign people" is those who dabble in the sport of kings "a night" means they truck them in for a race, and leave shortly there after. Horses are out training or grazing during the day. The barns are only for sleeping. Why  would he phrase: (15 rows down to the ground) - two fold -the rows are verticle and the "down" is a veiled confirmer to Churchill Downs. I have many confirmers to this, but not fully one hundred percent. I have quantities of photos at the time of (15 rows, three stand to watch, and 21) They have all been completely wiped away through two renovations. Conintue with your thoughts, but I believe that I9/V2 is/was there.

Trohn wrote:: I have many confirmers to this, but not fully one hundred percent. Oxymoron and a little more oxymoron.

boogieman wrote:: Oxymoron and a little more oxymoron. It is what it is.  I can not show you what is no longer there. I have all of the major confirmers in one or two photos. I do not have the secondary ones. I have been over this solve a thousand times - both the image and the verse are the minimalist of the tweleve. I do not want it to be there (as I have documented the demolition of the grounds) but that us where the clues tell us. Despite good efforts, I have seen nothing close to a complete solve on this one -

Trohn, don't u dare apologize for believing the casque is somewhere. You have done ur investigation and come up with a solution ur happy with. Is there anyway to go and try to dig it up?  Don't underestimate the power of buried treasure to get people to let you dig!! wilhouse

My offer to eat my hat still stands, Trohn - go dig that casque up!

Wilhouse, Forrest, BM- If you knew a bit better, you would know that 'apology' and 'guilt' are not part of my vocabulary. The burial site here has been compromised twice- once in 1984 and then again in 2003. The greatest thing about this site is tradition so once I trek over to the musuem and its archives I will be able to get a greater quantiity of detailed photos of the one out of the way spot that is described. I welcome anyone to come up with a comprable solution or comeup with anyother pairing of this verse and image. Without those, I must rely on the shots of the demolition of the gift shop/junior jockey club/eclipse suite to estimate that the new buildings foundation had to be laid more than three feet deep. Unlike Houston though, the demolition does not mean I can not re engineer where it was because rows '15' have not moved so I still have a concrete longitude to orientate from. 'Three stand to watch' are gone (a colorful mural of three horse heads) '21' is gone ( a painted number on the wall of the mural) All this just inside gate 15, on the side of the former gift shop. Under neath stairs leading up to the eclipse and jockey club suites. It  was hidden from view (barely) but in the middle of action. The building that fronted this (as most other buildings here) have name plates of past champions along upper facade.  Who knows which horse names were here. As Nixon used to say.. "Don't worry about me.  I'll be fine" I am just emphasizing this solution for some of the newbies so if they want to buy into this, they would not spend their time tracking their other leads.

Do you still think Louisville is image9 and v2?  If so, do you think JJP just painted that legeater to be something other than the lightpost?  I'll give the verse up, because it's not solved otherwise, but the image cannot be Louisville, unless you have the legeater there as well.

frishkie wrote:: I'm thinking Canada (a sovereign people), specifically Quebec (want to be a sovereign people). Unknown: Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! I think it is fascinating that this thread began more that two years ago with mention of Quebec, while we are currently researching Montreal. My searches in Montreal led me to Ice Palaces of 1884 and 1885. Although the Ice Palaces lasted all winter, metaphorically they could have melted the next morning.

I think it's fascinating how we've found such solid links to both Montreal and St. Louis. The 1904 World's Fair in St. Louis involved the construction of several huge buildings - literally called Palaces - intended to be temporary (indeed, most were demolished as soon as the fair was over) in the same park as the Vandeventer Gate and the lamppost with three lions who "stand watch." Supporting evidence included the Blues note, the latitude + longitude, the checker pattern (for the Checkerdome), the fountain at the Muny, the Gateway Arch over our guy's eye, and a Dutch connection (Vandeventer). But Montreal has that darned legeater, and I can't get past that. The Ice Palace idea is good, too. Side note: Quebec City regularly builds Ice Palaces in winter, even now (at the Porte Saint-Louis, no less!!). That may be important given that BP uses the present tense in V2.

I suppose the next course of action is to find a legeater in Quebec City.  I may want to start with the architects of the Mount Stephens Club and see if anything clicks over there.  A search for buildings erected around the same time might lead to something. I'm getting the feeling that there won't be any legeater in St Louis.

Does this look like the flower in image9? Mount stephens Club. Edit; should have put this in the image9 thread.

That's pretty funny, boogie. I actually looked at that exact same picture this morning, thought about how the flower might be the calendula, then rejected the idea. I don't think they match is close enough. I think we should find a backhoe and level the Mount Stephen Club. But where will we ever find a backhoe?

FB, do you have a close-up picture of that column on file? edit: still laughing bout backoe

What column?

I mean, those flowers on the columns at Mount Stephens Club.

Boogie , You are correct . There is no legeater in St louis . Trohn, I appreciate the help in directing me .

Here you go, boogie:

Not much luck resizing the top pic, but other than the music symbol,( or hockey logo), looks pretty good to me.  Can somebody make these the same size? CMSCHUT, what do you mean about the legeater? Wow.  Posting this at the same time FB.  Thanks

I was looking up train signals and found this . Does it look like the picture ? hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Johnamacdonald1870.jpg

Boogie, You said  Previously that you had the feeling there wouldn't be any legeater in St louis . I was there all day and I would say not also .

Hey now, don't give up.  If I read you right, getting a little down.  You've been working too darn hard.  All these posts are here to stay so we can go back and forth.  Montreal, St Louis.  We're all going to enjoy whatever, and whomever finds the next one.

Boogie , It's what it's going to be . I would love for it to be here , but I don't see a  Legeater . The one in Montreal  is a perfect match and can't be ignored .Did you see the troll on pg 6  . I know it's a bit dated , but he does resemble it and it could very well be in a Museum etc somewhere there in Canada. I do like My hands though as the Old courthouse in St. louis . Looks like wilhouse is onto the next one .  I know you all are in grave anticipation for that as well as wilhouse .

Trohn, w/o that legeater, I think all of your theories just dont add up.  Take it from the guy who was Convinced (and had all of the confirmers to back it) that P2 was in NM. We all seem to be trying to hard....we find a place that something just fits and then force the rest. Dont you dare give up in S.L. Cmshut!  BP confirmed a casque there.....if the legeater P isnt there...another one is.

Fox- without the blob, the legeater is without context. (has anyone else found a checkered pattern on site to go along with their other confirmers?) This verse and image have very little play.  The verse does not take one on a journey or tour like some others. "The place where jewels abound" (not a place) This single line dictates name recogonition - beyond a location in a city. A jewel is something small precious fragile and sought after. (to me - and I might be the only one - fits with race horse) I can not deny that the Montreal lamp post is an exact fit. "How many licks does it take to get to the center of a totsie pop? The world may never know."

Fox , I'm by no means giving up . I'm lost as where to go or do next . Anything you think I should check out let me know . Carol

CMSCHUT wrote:: I was looking up train signals and found this . Does it look like the picture ? hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Johnamacdonald1870.jpg I still think this guy looks like our picture . I know it's dated , but hey It's a portrait .

CMSCHUT wrote:: I still think this guy looks like our picture . I know it's dated , but hey It's a portrait . I didnt comment on this the first time because the image did not load but now looking at it....yes, I see a similarity here.  Especially if you look at a lampooned version of the same man.  Gotta love the exagerated nose... not sure if this is our guy but definitely worth investigating...

Fox , I think I like your pic better. Looks like our lady/man. I was thinking on what Trohn said about the Horses and It brought to mind the  KING of beers right here in St. Louis . Those Clydsedales are not living Shabby. I really like the crowns on top of the buildings. Just a thought .

This is for Fox. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lewis_and_Clark_Expedition hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/M._Lewis_Clark

"In the middle of twenty one" twenty first letter is a 'U' (or a horse shoe) I wonder..... 1974 hxxp://travel.webshots.com/photo/106756 ... 8872wMXtuD 2005 hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/13 ... 2605ndyULE The winners 'circle' is actually a horse shoe and would be 'down to the ground' (nice flowers)

Fifteen Rows down to the ground. hxxp://www.mcchump.com/cd.jpg

How many rows of bleachers are there?  It is hard to see in the photo.

looks like 15 or 16 to me.

frishkie wrote:: At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. Assuming that twenty - one is represented by the letter 'U' then now why the "From end to end" on its own line? The middle (for a circular object) is pretty well descriptive. So if one takes a piece of string/rope/taffy and pulls it "from end to end" that is the act of "stretching" The stretch at Churchill Downs is right it front of the grandstands before the finish. Another turn of a thought of the image... the Hat with the Jewel (whose shape and contours still bug me) can be called a Derby Crown (derby meaning hat and crown meaning a head piece adorned with jewels) At the time of 1981, the Derby Crown (the winner of the horse races) was awarded in the middle of that "U". gnomes - standing for jockeys fays - standing for things flying really fast ground - meaning dirt meeting - the term used for a horse race This line if thought actually gives me a smile because it true, the casque is still there to get!

Saw an interesting piece on the Discovery ch.  The Budweiser Clydesdale Horses have their own stable in St Louis.  One block from the brewery.  Wouldn't that be nice if they had a leg eater there?  Image9 has to be St louis, no?  Trohn, trying to keep your horses in it.  LOL

boogieman wrote:: Saw an interesting piece on the Discovery ch.  The Budweiser Clydesdale Horses have their own stable in St Louis.  One block from the brewery.  Wouldn't that be nice if they had a leg eater there?  Image9 has to be St louis, no?  Trohn, trying to keep your horses in it.  LOL *SMILE*  like I need much help in that regard.... In regard to the "leg-eater" of Montreal, why would image 9 depict this reference point as inside a box?

Hmmmm . . . I'll have to check out the Cydesdale possibility.

At last... knowing where to look (and when) 'Three stand watch' ... 'gnomes admire' Three jockey statues spaced along the infield rail at the finsih line. I feel good ! If someone knows how to get a scan with more resolution onto here, let me know.  All of the better attempts sized out. Hope this is clear enough for you all.

Trohn wrote:: In regard to the "leg-eater" of Montreal, why would image 9 depict this reference point as inside a box? It's not inside a box, it's inside a golden square.  Thus, the legeater can be found inside the Golden Square Mile in Montreal.  Presumably, the other image inside this square will also be found in the same area.  I would like the unidentified image to be connected to the Club, but anything nearby would be a good confirmer.  Most likely, this will be figured out after the casque is located.  IMHO.

*The game is afoot dear watson" Dear Mr. Alfano, Hello, my name is Katherine Veitschegger and I am the Curator of Collections for the Kentucky Derby Museum. The postcard you sent to us is very interesting. We do not have a large amount of research on the "lawn jockeys". However, we can infer that they were stationed obviously in the twentieth century, and that there were most likely just the three, due to track configuration. These jockeys are also not part of our collection here at the Kentucky Derby Museum. Thank you for sending is such a unique postcard. I will research the subject matter for a more detailed response to follow.

Verse Only - Let's Review At the place where jewels abound          the place (famous name) jewels abound (a lot of really expensive beautiful fragile things) Fifteen rows down to the ground            first level grandstand/clubhouse (counted fifteen rows) In the middle of twenty-one        a most prominent spot from the standing at the rail (U/horse shoe/infield) From end to end                          a stretch (from one end to the other end - in the middle of) Only three stand watch                found them! As the sound of friends                the people are not the attraction but they do make a lot of noise Fills the afternoon hours              horse racing typically (historically) only run in the afternoons Here is a sovereign people          the sport of kings/Millionaries Who build palaces to shelter        fancy barns Their heads for a night!              heads = herds = cattle = horses Gnomes admire                          gnomes = jockeys Fays delight                              fays = fairies = things that fly past with lightning speed The namesakes meeting              Ohio Falls (the meeting of Lewis and Clark) Near this site.                            Founder of Churchill Downs was named for Lewis and Clark (nephew) Just the verse - nothing else.... "If you eliminate the impossible, then what you are left with, no matter how improbable, is the possible"  Sherlock Holmes

Please find attached another image CLEARLY showing the THREE STAND WATCH. 'hxxp://www.tias.com/11550/PictPage/1921081732.html' Any questions? edit:  The link no longer shows the photo/postcard from 1950 because I bought it. When it arrives I will scan and post. It is a clear shot of three jockey gnomes admiring the finish line of Churchill Downs from the infield.  It is a photo from the box seats, as opposed to the behind shot I posted earlier.

This verse is for New orleans and goes with image 7 (image 7 contains the turquoise stone, and is for the french, this is mentioned in the verse, also a harlequin as part of the clock decoration) The place where jewels abound is near tourmaline park/ harlequin park in New Orleans find it on google maps - there is a ridiculous number of streets names after precious stones as well as a jewel street. Check it out ! Corvus

corvus - that neighborhood has been brought up before, more than once, but seems to be a dead end. Do you have new evidence?

Maybe corvus7corax is onto something after all. Right between that neighborhood ( where jewels abound ?) and Lake Pontchartrain is the Mardi Gras Fountain: Those little dots around the fountain are tiled emblems of the "carnival krewes" responsible for decking out parades, floats etc. for Mardi Gras. The place was renovated a couple of years ago, but dates back to 1962. I would give a lot to see how those tiled emblems were arranged before renovating. Plenty of the emblems feature royalty, and the main plaque mentions "royal crests," possibly in line with sovereign people . Here is an animated collage: hxxp://www.photographicvr.com/mardi_gras_fountain/

Everything is up for grabs until the casques are unearthed. This verse though does not give a path to travel, it places you at the exact spot to dig. Work it through and tell me the namesakes.

Trohn wrote:: Everything is up for grabs until the casques are unearthed. This verse though does not give a path to travel, it places you at the exact spot to dig. Work it through and tell me the namesakes. Maybe you have something there---the namesakes could be the Krewes names! Check this out: hxxp://www.novareinna.com/festive/krewes.html Ther are a lot of things that could be 'namesakes' there. ck

no, i didnt fall off the face of the earth and NO, i did not locate a casque....just trying to catch up on a few months of missed posts. I really like this fountain area for something that would definitely catch BP's eye.  Find me that shape somewhere in the P (out of town at the inlaws house right no so i have none of my material).  I am willing to bet that an image from one of those markers is in our P.

ya know those flowers are all over in the iron works in St Louis. & in the outside buildings. the old courthouse, places like that close by the Arch. Fox, did i read ya right? did you say that there really is one of thses in St. Louis & that came from BP? Now that its nice out & the rain is gone I'ld love to take a trip to Grants Farm. Has anyone checked that place out yet? Budwisers horses are there.

alt, Not a bad place to take the Kids either. Something interesting on the fence there that surrounds the place. The Clydesdales are also at the Brewery and they are well taken care of. The tour is nice and the 2 free beers ain't a bad thing either. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/bikeclimbsail/426154051/ Grant's Farm is free , but probably because the parking is soooo expensive. It's also on Highway 21. Thought I'd throw that in there.

Hmmmmm .  . .  St. Louis again?  Who else is in the St. Louis area.  Let's get together.

Johann, Sounds good. I actually have a few Vacations coming up. Let's here from anyone else in St. Louie. Alt?

Hello again everyone. I just picked up the book again after a brief recess. I am close to St. Louis and could possibly meet everyone. Just let me know when. Johann, I thought sure you would have this one by now. It has been awhile since i have been to the city but i think Grant's Farm is on Hwy. 30 (Gravois). I think Hwy. 21 (Tesson Ferry) is to the south. Happy hunting!!

Xlurker , I believe you are right. I get the 2 confused. After I posted I doubted myself.

Did anythng come of the New Orlean's thoery? "At the place where jewels abound" sure sounds like Mardi Gras to me Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! "Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site." -- look for something to do with "La Fayette" -- or Lafayette (which, in French, I believe translates to "The Fairy" (female form of the word) As in the French General who came to our rescue during the Revolutionary War, I believe--especially if he met another person with a fairy name and someone put up a historic marker over it.) Just a minor thought I felt worth mentioning.

This is my first post on Q4T, please be gentle. I just got back from the library, and I have finally (finally!) identified the source for: "Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!" It was written by Argentine author Domingo Faustino Sarmiento, who, while travelling in the United States, saw the St. Charles Exchange Hotel in New Orleans, and compared it to St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. The whole quote: "The Saint Charles, which lifted its proud head above the surrounding hills and woods, the Saint Charles, which had called up my memory of Saint Peter's in Rome, was no more than a hotel! Here is the sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night! Here is the religion which is delicated to man as man, and here the marvels of art are lavished on the glorification of the masses." I hope this helps. Please don't confuse the St. Charles Exchange Hotel with the Cotton Exchange Hotel, which is a newer building.

This is my first post on Q4T, please be gentle. I just got back from the library, and I have finally (finally!) identified the source for: "Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!" It was written by Argentine author Domingo Faustino Sarmiento, who, while travelling in the United States, saw the St. Charles Exchange Hotel in New Orleans, and compared it to St. Peter's Basilica in Rome. The whole quote: "The Saint Charles, which lifted its proud head above the surrounding hills and woods, the Saint Charles, which had called up my memory of Saint Peter's in Rome, was no more than a hotel! Here is the sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night! Here is the religion which is delicated to man as man, and here the marvels of art are lavished on the glorification of the masses." I hope this helps. Please don't confuse the St. Charles Exchange Hotel with the Cotton Exchange Hotel, which is a newer building.

Oh, and the St. Charles Exchange Hotel was built in 1835 and burned down, rebuilt in 1851 and burned down, rebuilt in 1896, and burned down. It was demolished in 1974, before The Secret was written. There are two other hotels, the Royal St. Charles, and the Parc St. Charles. Neither of these bear any relation to the original.

This is an incredible find. Bravo!!

I can't seem to confirm this from a search of the internet.  Do you have a scan of the page that has the quote that can be seen?  This is clear confirmation of Verse 2 and New Orleans.  Nice job!

I can likely scan the page this week, sometime. Of course, Sarmiento says "the sovereign people" and the verse is "a sovereign people", but, that's close enough, IMHO. But, here's confirmation from Google Book Search. hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=OZABAA ... %22&pgis=1 I do believe the verse exists to point to: a) St. Charles Avenue b) St. Peter Street c) Any hotel in NOLA or d) Simply establish a 'link' between the verse and the city. And, if anybody is in New Orleans wanting to help out with this search, I'm glad to help. I'm based in Baton Rouge, and can make it down there any afternoon or Sat/Sun afternoons. I have other data that suggest Armstrong Park, but I'll reveal that in due time.

I can likely scan the page this week, sometime. Of course, Sarmiento says "the sovereign people" and the verse is "a sovereign people", but, that's close enough, IMHO. But, here's confirmation from Google Book Search. hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=OZABAA ... %22&pgis=1 I do believe the verse exists to point to: a) St. Charles Avenue b) St. Peter Street c) Any hotel in NOLA or d) Simply establish a 'link' between the verse and the city. And, if anybody is in New Orleans wanting to help out with this search, I'm glad to help. I'm based in Baton Rouge, and can make it down there any afternoon or Sat/Sun afternoons. I have other data that suggest Armstrong Park, but I'll reveal that in due time.

Eg - I ran walked swiftly to the university library (only one building away) and confirmed it for myself. I found two English translations of Sarmiento's Travels in the United States in 1847 . Here are the relevant passages: "As the steamboat in which we floated down the Mississippi turned one of the semicircular curves described by that immense, smoothly flowing body of water, we were shown, against the horizon - dominating steplike clumps of trees in every shade of autumn colors, below which spread the emerald lines of broad sugar plantations - the cupola of the St. Charles, a comforting indication of our proximity to New Orleans after twenty-one hundred miles of river and forest. Although the appearance of the surrounding landscape does not favor the comparison, the sight of that distant cupola reminded me of the dome of St. Peter's in Rome, visible from all points of the horizon as if it stood there alone, and looking so colossal at sixy miles that one would scarcely believe it when viewing it close by. At last I was to see in the United States a basilica of classical architecture and dimensions worthy of the Christian cult. Someone asked us whether we had selected a hotel, and suggested the St. Charles as the best appointed. "At sunrise," he added, "you will have from its cupola the finest panorama of the city, river, lake, and surrounding countryside." The St. Charles, which lifted its great head above the surrounding hills and forests, the St. Charles that had brought to my mind St. Peter's at Rome, was merely a hotel! Behold the sovereign people who build palaces for themselves, under whose vaulted roofs to lay their heads for a night! Behold the worship paid to man as man, and the prodigies of skill lavished upon the glorification of the popular masses. Nero had his Domus Aurea. But the Roman plebeians had only the catacombs for their shelter!" The other translation (last bit only) reads as Squid wrote. Sarmiento goes on with more description of the hotel. He was quite taken with the place. Where exactly was it? This was an incredibly obscure quote, more obscure than the one from Pierre , and unlikely to be found inscribed on a monument. How could anyone hope to find it before Google?

Eg - I ran walked swiftly to the university library (only one building away) and confirmed it for myself. I found two English translations of Sarmiento's Travels in the United States in 1847 . Here are the relevant passages: "As the steamboat in which we floated down the Mississippi turned one of the semicircular curves described by that immense, smoothly flowing body of water, we were shown, against the horizon - dominating steplike clumps of trees in every shade of autumn colors, below which spread the emerald lines of broad sugar plantations - the cupola of the St. Charles, a comforting indication of our proximity to New Orleans after twenty-one hundred miles of river and forest. Although the appearance of the surrounding landscape does not favor the comparison, the sight of that distant cupola reminded me of the dome of St. Peter's in Rome, visible from all points of the horizon as if it stood there alone, and looking so colossal at sixy miles that one would scarcely believe it when viewing it close by. At last I was to see in the United States a basilica of classical architecture and dimensions worthy of the Christian cult. Someone asked us whether we had selected a hotel, and suggested the St. Charles as the best appointed. "At sunrise," he added, "you will have from its cupola the finest panorama of the city, river, lake, and surrounding countryside." The St. Charles, which lifted its great head above the surrounding hills and forests, the St. Charles that had brought to my mind St. Peter's at Rome, was merely a hotel! Behold the sovereign people who build palaces for themselves, under whose vaulted roofs to lay their heads for a night! Behold the worship paid to man as man, and the prodigies of skill lavished upon the glorification of the popular masses. Nero had his Domus Aurea. But the Roman plebeians had only the catacombs for their shelter!" The other translation (last bit only) reads as Squid wrote. Sarmiento goes on with more description of the hotel. He was quite taken with the place. Where exactly was it? This was an incredibly obscure quote, more obscure than the one from Pierre , and unlikely to be found inscribed on a monument. How could anyone hope to find it before Google?

forest_blight wrote:: Sarmiento goes on with more description of the hotel. He was quite taken with the place. Where exactly was it? I hope this link works... hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=yo8ZAA ... #PPA137,M1 This section of the book seems to describe the location in 1845 as on St. Charles St. & Gravier St.

It was located between St. Charles, Common, Gravier, and Camp streets. Currently, the Place St. Charles office tower sits at its former spot. hxxp://www.placestcharles.com/map.html

The Giant Squid wrote:: It was located between St. Charles, Common, Gravier, and Camp streets. Located between St. Charlees, Common, Gravier, and Carondelet streets.  Here is another map: hxxp://gennotes.150m.com/lucas.html Description of the St. Charles Exchange Hotel starts on page 137 in the book at the following site: hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=yo8ZAA ... #PPA142,M1

I like this!!! The bit in the previous mail about Fay = LaFAYette....very near there is Lafayette Square!! Here are somem links about the Square: hxxp://www.nps.gov/archive/jazz/Walking ... ur%206.pdf This is a link to a postcard of the place offered on eBay: hxxp://cgi.ebay.com/Postcard-Post-Offic ... dZViewItem hxxp://www.neworleansonline.com/neworle ... quare.html Also...could "the place where jewels abound" mean N. and S. Diamond Streets, about three blocks away from there?

I went back over all our Verse 2 material today to see what might still be salvageable after Squid's discovery. First, remember that there is that neighborhood in New Orleans, NNW of Jackson Square on the shore of Lake Pontchartrain, where all the streets are named after jewels/gemstones. I would say that is a place where jewels abound. Also, CMSCHUT said, "This I Take as  A reference to an Elaborate Hotel." How right she was! Finally, read my post of May 7. Do we have any hunters in the N.O. area? Wilhouse, isn't Houston sorta close to N.O.??

There might be a lot of interpretations of "where jewels abound."  Here's one: In 1987 the United States Congress, through Concurrent Resolution 57, designated Jazz "a rare and valuable national American treasure to which we should devote our attention, support and resources to make certain it is preserved, understood and promulgated. A treasure=jewels.  This square and the Lafayette district in general would have many "jewels" of our national treasure, Jazz. Here's another interesting tie-in with the theme of the book in general: 14. FAIRMONT HOTEL 123 Baronne St. Built in 1908 and designed by Toledano and Wogan, the Grunewald Hotel later became the Roosevelt Hotel, then the Fairmont Hotel. A major music policy has prevailed since its inception; the Grunewald Cave showcased Johnny Dedroit's Band dressed as elves; Thought that was rather interesting.... c

Has anyone been able to find any Pics of the Hotels in the area that may have our  Leg Eater Lampost ?  I was so excited to see this find and Hope you all get this Jewel

You know, there are a lot of enticing lampposts in the area....it wouldn't surprise me a bit if it was there. But what makes you think it's I9? Maybe it's I7? More about Lafayette park that may or may not be relevant:

It has to be Image 7. With items like "Preservation," a Mardi Gras mask, and the proper latitude and longitude on the clock face, it could hardly be any other picture.

forest_blight wrote:: It has to be Image 7. With items like "Preservation," a Mardi Gras mask, and the proper latitude and longitude on the clock face, it could hardly be any other picture. One would think.

Also, in image 7, the mask covers a quarter of the clock face -- maybe a visual pun for French Quarter.  Another question:  Are there any theatres around?  The French word for theatre/theater is "bijoux"--meaning, I think, "Jewel"-- so we may be looking at a part of the theatre district.

Unknown: THE THEATERS 300 & 400 blks. St. Charles and Camp Sts. In the 19th and half of the 20th century, this was New Orleans' largest theater district. Now vanished, they were the American Theater (Camp St. Theater), the New American Theater, 3 consecutive St. Charles Theaters (3rd aka the Orpheum), Academy of Music (Audubon Theater), Regent (Joy Rio & Avenue), Lyceum, and Liberty Unknown: ORPHEUM THEATER 129 University Place The Orpheum Circuit Co. moved to this location in 1921. It was designed by nationally noted architect J. Albert Lansberg, assisted by local architect Sam Stone, Jr. Conductor Emile Tosso's Orpheum Symphony Orchestra featured many jazz musicians, including cornetist Johnny Dedroit. The later house band also had jazz musicians including trumpeter Howard Reed, trombonist Jac Assunto and saxophonist Al Gallodoro. There are several theatres in the Lafayette District--it used to be known as THE theatre district in NO. . Note the name of the local architect--Sam Stone.....jewel = stone. This is not the only place in this district he designed. c

I've visited Lafayette Square twice in the past two days, and here I'll offer up my breakdown on the verse. "At the place where jewels abound" - Could refer to the fact that this is in the heart of the Central Business and Banking Districts. (All of New Orleans' major bank HQs are within 3 blocks). Alternatively, this could refer to Julia Street (two blocks SW of the Square) and (Julian) Poydras Street (one block NE of the Square). "Fifteen rows down to the ground/In the middle of twenty-one" - Could refer to the 15 rows of masonry on the John Minor Wisdom Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. But, I don't really like that. Also, there are twenty window on the front of the F. Edward Hebert Federal Building, each window is divided by a column. There is a lightning rod (perhaps) running down the middle of these columns. Reading it this way, implies "fifteen rows, down to the lightning rod (ground) in the middle of the windows of the building across the street and to the left. It -can- work, but it feels too tricky/clever for my tastes. 'Only three stand watch' - Well, it's true, there's the statues of John McDonogh, Henry Clay, and Ben Franklin all in a row, from end to end of the park. 'As the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours' - Sorry, this verse feels worthless. Judging from Chicago and Cleveland, he's provides LOTS of valuable info in his verses, and no fluff. This is fluff, basically, there are billions of spots across North America where friends meet in the afternoon. It's possible that it refers to Patrick Gilmore's famous concerts (with Union sodiers and former-Confederate schoolchildren and cannons and such) in the 1860s, but, that's an awful lot of history. Chicago and Cleveland don't dig that deep for esoteric cultural references. 'Here is a sovereign people/who build palaces to shelter/their heads for a night' - Ahhh, the Sarmiento quote I uncovered. Refers to a hotel that's 5 blocks away and has been torn down before the book was written. A skyscraper sits on the site. There are a couple of other hotels in the area, that are rather opulent. But, this is a terribly rare quote. I was thinking exactly what Egbert was, that he had  Abroad in America on hand when the book was written. 'Gnomes admire' - No clue here. There are some gardens nearby, and there's a John McDonogh ("gno" - sound) either admiring Lafayette Street (or being admired by schoolchildren). 'Fays delight' - Possibly LaFayette himself. 'The namesakes meeting/Near this site' - Okay, possibly St. Charles Avenue meeting with Lafayette Square. So, to tie it to the image. 1) The harlequin on the clock face looks sort of like the boy admiring John McDonogh 2) The clock face evokes the famous clocks of Whitney National Bank, headquartered across the street from the site of the former St. Charles Hotel. 3) If you rotate the clock face, the markings on the clock sort of reflect the paths through the park. Sounds good so far? Except, I don't buy it. Here's why: 1) Lafayette Square is tiny, the size of one city block. It is surrounded by (in a circle, going clockwise) - a 12-story federal building, a hotel and restaurant (Lafayette Hotel), a couple liner buildings in front of a condo tower (one is called Soule College, if that rings a bell), Gallier Hall, another federal building, the Poydras Tower (a skyscraper under construction at the time of the book's writing), the Hale Boggs Federal Building (also half a city block in size), and the fifth district Court of Appeals. Where/how do you dig without being noticed? You've got two busy streets on either side of you, and you're in the middle of a federal complex with scads of security personnel around. I imagine it might have been easier pre-9/11, but it seems like both Cleveland and Chicago's casques were hidden behind walls. 2) The 'down to the ground' line, if it refers to a lightning rod, is almost too clever. It actually bothers me, because it tells me I'm inventing patterns where there are none. 3) 'As the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours'? Sorry, that's a throwaway line. This is the shortest verse out of all of them, and I don't believe that the author would waste ink on something that didn't more specifically put you in the right area. 4) 'Gnomes admire/Fays delight' - Unless this is an anagram for something, then it's not telling me anything. And, I'm not satisfied with the John McDonogh/Lafayette connections. and finally 5) How did/could the author possibly have expected anybody to have found that quote? It's a quote, from a quote, from a translation of a text in Spanish. It strikes me that the author might be referring to some other opulent hotel, and just cribbed this line because it sounds good. I'm actually not opposed to thinking this refers to the Mount Stephens Club hotel in Montreal (with the Leg Eaters). H 6) Chicago had very good visual cues to the site (Lakes statue, Bowman statue, Fence), Cleveland had very good visual cues to the site (lion, statue, fountain, pool, wall, columns). I am only seeing the harlequin/boy link, and that ain't all that good. I am not super-impressed with the Whitney Bank/clock face link either, despite being desperate to do so. I visited City Park (for Storyland), and am not impressed there. I visited Armstrong Park (before getting run off by the fuzz), and feel a LOT more positive about that location. I'll post followups later, and maybe I'll head out tomorrow and take pictures.

I've visited Lafayette Square twice in the past two days, and here I'll offer up my breakdown on the verse. "At the place where jewels abound" - Could refer to the fact that this is in the heart of the Central Business and Banking Districts. (All of New Orleans' major bank HQs are within 3 blocks). Alternatively, this could refer to Julia Street (two blocks SW of the Square) and (Julian) Poydras Street (one block NE of the Square). "Fifteen rows down to the ground/In the middle of twenty-one" - Could refer to the 15 rows of masonry on the John Minor Wisdom Fifth Circuit Court of Appeals. But, I don't really like that. Also, there are twenty window on the front of the F. Edward Hebert Federal Building, each window is divided by a column. There is a lightning rod (perhaps) running down the middle of these columns. Reading it this way, implies "fifteen rows, down to the lightning rod (ground) in the middle of the windows of the building across the street and to the left. It -can- work, but it feels too tricky/clever for my tastes. 'Only three stand watch' - Well, it's true, there's the statues of John McDonogh, Henry Clay, and Ben Franklin all in a row, from end to end of the park. 'As the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours' - Sorry, this verse feels worthless. Judging from Chicago and Cleveland, he's provides LOTS of valuable info in his verses, and no fluff. This is fluff, basically, there are billions of spots across North America where friends meet in the afternoon. It's possible that it refers to Patrick Gilmore's famous concerts (with Union sodiers and former-Confederate schoolchildren and cannons and such) in the 1860s, but, that's an awful lot of history. Chicago and Cleveland don't dig that deep for esoteric cultural references. 'Here is a sovereign people/who build palaces to shelter/their heads for a night' - Ahhh, the Sarmiento quote I uncovered. Refers to a hotel that's 5 blocks away and has been torn down before the book was written. A skyscraper sits on the site. There are a couple of other hotels in the area, that are rather opulent. But, this is a terribly rare quote. I was thinking exactly what Egbert was, that he had  Abroad in America on hand when the book was written. 'Gnomes admire' - No clue here. There are some gardens nearby, and there's a John McDonogh ("gno" - sound) either admiring Lafayette Street (or being admired by schoolchildren). 'Fays delight' - Possibly LaFayette himself. 'The namesakes meeting/Near this site' - Okay, possibly St. Charles Avenue meeting with Lafayette Square. So, to tie it to the image. 1) The harlequin on the clock face looks sort of like the boy admiring John McDonogh 2) The clock face evokes the famous clocks of Whitney National Bank, headquartered across the street from the site of the former St. Charles Hotel. 3) If you rotate the clock face, the markings on the clock sort of reflect the paths through the park. Sounds good so far? Except, I don't buy it. Here's why: 1) Lafayette Square is tiny, the size of one city block. It is surrounded by (in a circle, going clockwise) - a 12-story federal building, a hotel and restaurant (Lafayette Hotel), a couple liner buildings in front of a condo tower (one is called Soule College, if that rings a bell), Gallier Hall, another federal building, the Poydras Tower (a skyscraper under construction at the time of the book's writing), the Hale Boggs Federal Building (also half a city block in size), and the fifth district Court of Appeals. Where/how do you dig without being noticed? You've got two busy streets on either side of you, and you're in the middle of a federal complex with scads of security personnel around. I imagine it might have been easier pre-9/11, but it seems like both Cleveland and Chicago's casques were hidden behind walls. 2) The 'down to the ground' line, if it refers to a lightning rod, is almost too clever. It actually bothers me, because it tells me I'm inventing patterns where there are none. 3) 'As the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours'? Sorry, that's a throwaway line. This is the shortest verse out of all of them, and I don't believe that the author would waste ink on something that didn't more specifically put you in the right area. 4) 'Gnomes admire/Fays delight' - Unless this is an anagram for something, then it's not telling me anything. And, I'm not satisfied with the John McDonogh/Lafayette connections. and finally 5) How did/could the author possibly have expected anybody to have found that quote? It's a quote, from a quote, from a translation of a text in Spanish. It strikes me that the author might be referring to some other opulent hotel, and just cribbed this line because it sounds good. I'm actually not opposed to thinking this refers to the Mount Stephens Club hotel in Montreal (with the Leg Eaters). H 6) Chicago had very good visual cues to the site (Lakes statue, Bowman statue, Fence), Cleveland had very good visual cues to the site (lion, statue, fountain, pool, wall, columns). I am only seeing the harlequin/boy link, and that ain't all that good. I am not super-impressed with the Whitney Bank/clock face link either, despite being desperate to do so. I visited City Park (for Storyland), and am not impressed there. I visited Armstrong Park (before getting run off by the fuzz), and feel a LOT more positive about that location. I'll post followups later, and maybe I'll head out tomorrow and take pictures.

Squid, you're an asset to this hunt. I believe this V must point to New Orleans - it's too perfect not to. As for Lafayette Park not working because of its location, remember that the Chicago site is just a block away from downtown. Suitably disguised in a roadworker's uniform and accompanied by a couple of orange pylons, anyone can bury anything anywhere. As for the obscurity of the quote... if he made it too obvious people would have recognized it immediately and solved his puzzle within a week of publication. The Edwin and Edwina thing is even more obscure, since it probably appears in Abroad and nowhere else other than ancient newspaper clippings and genealogy books, yet it's clear that he meant it to be a tie-in to Charleston. The obscure quote from Melville's most obscure book leads to Houston's Hermann Park. So I don't think he's above using incredibly obscure quotes. Devilish hard. I have a feeling that the "sound of friends" bit may be from another as-yet-undiscovered obscure quote.

The Giant Squid wrote:: 'As the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours' - Sorry, this verse feels worthless. Judging from Chicago and Cleveland, he's provides LOTS of valuable info in his verses, and no fluff. This is fluff, basically, there are billions of spots across North America where friends meet in the afternoon. 3) 'As the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours'? Sorry, that's a throwaway line. This is the shortest verse out of all of them, and I don't believe that the author would waste ink on something that didn't more specifically put you in the right area. Mr. Squid, I agree that every single line in these verses has a purpose for being there.  That is exactly why you should not ignore it just because you cannot figure out the meaning on the first go-round. It could be a quote from a book, but I did a Google book search using different variations, and found nothing.  I think the words "friends" and "afternoon" are the most significant.  Where would there be a lot of people in the afternoon, but not in the morning?  The football game suggested by others is an idea, but a football game occurs only once per week.  The quote seems to imply that it happens more often than that, probably most days.  Since you live in New Orleans, perhaps you know of other places where this may occur.  I immediately thought of "tea time" like they have in England, or a siesta in Mexico.  Is there anything like that in New Orleans where that would occur? Also, why does it say "friends" as opposed to just "people"?  There must be a reason for that too.  Walk around the town, and see if anything occurs to you.  And don't get frustrated!

Egbert wrote:: Also, why does it say "friends" as opposed to just "people"?  There must be a reason for that too. I don't suppose there's a Quaker meeting house near the park...

I was doing some looking around in Lafayette Square with Squid, and I've uploaded my pictures to flickr. hxxp://flickr.com/photos/chartres

The Giant Squid wrote:: I visited City Park (for Storyland), and am not impressed there. I visited Armstrong Park (before getting run off by the fuzz), and feel a LOT more positive about that location. Hi Giant Squid, I realy like your research, included Sarmiento's quote (Your find has inspired me to search on this Verse for first time), but you have more points against LaFayette Square (6) than pros (2 solid, 2 'could' and 2 'possibly')... so, why are you more "impressed " on this spot than City park??? From my thought, City Park have more match item (verse and pic) than Lafayette... (see image 7 thread...)

The Giant Squid wrote:: I visited City Park (for Storyland), and am not impressed there. I visited Armstrong Park (before getting run off by the fuzz), and feel a LOT more positive about that location. I really like Storyland for this one, Squid. The gigantic narcissus there is a good match to the clock's flowers in P7. Pretty distinctive.

forest_blight wrote:: I don't suppose there's a Quaker meeting house near the park... Actually, there is. hxxp://fmno.quaker.org/directions.htm I thought about this same connection. However--Quakers are known for almost SILENT worship--therefore, the 'sound' of friends  would be pretty much nonexistent.  But what about something named after a Quaker? Or something that had Quaker music featured prominently? He says the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours .  If y9u interpret friends as Quakers, then what could they be doing during the afternoon?  Most Quaker worship is held at the same time as other church services--plus/minus 10 AM--so 'filling' the afternoon hours would be a stretch for a meeting house. But it might not for a concert--or a school . Which brings up another possibility for the "friends"-- hxxp://www.friendsofmusic.org/ Note that all their concerts are held at Tulane University. Right in the vicinity. Of course there's even one more possibility: hxxp://www.friendsoflafayette.org/data/about.html&nbsp; though this one is more tenuous.

shecrab wrote:: Of course there's even one more possibility: hxxp://www.friendsoflafayette.org/data/about.html though this one is more tenuous. ...and... hxxp://www.friendsofcitypark.com/ (Friends of City Park was established in 1978... and you know what was doing BP around this date)

FB and Egbert, you've both inspired me to keep making this verse fit. Let's do a rundown of the city parks quickly. Jackson Square - The most iconic park in the city. Dead in the middle of hundreds (or thousands at some times) of tourists. Locked at night (and, IIRC, has been locked at night for several decades), strangely, verse 7 is a better match for this park than verse 2. Washington Square Park - In the Marigny. There is basically nothing in this park. Some trees, some slides, some bums, no more. No real ready visual cues. Around the same size as Jackson Square, if not smaller. Armstrong Park - Just north of the French Quarter. My strongest gut  feeling is for this park. It's large enough to poke around/dig while unnoticed. 1. The gate reminds me of the top of the clock: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/lomola/19171360/ 2. The ball mask/Armstrong statue connection is strong: hxxp://flickr.com/photo_zoom.gne?id=40339777&size=l 3. The word 'Preservation', of course refers to Preservation Hall, which exists to keep Jazz alive. If one stands at the front door to Preservation Hall, you can see (on a day with no people around) the western bounds of Armstrong Park. Incidentally, Armstrong Park is the National Park Service's sanctuary to Jazz music. hxxp://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... =addr&om=1 4. And, I know this might feel like 'reaching', but the large hand on the clock reminds me of the 'three-bulb' streetlamps in the area. In most part of the city, the lamps have only a single light, Along St. Charles, the lamps have 2 lights, and along Rampart and near Canal/Elks Place, the lights have three bulbs. They also exist in the park, as well. Until I find a better pic: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/92702940@N00/742310834/ Riverfront Park/Moonwalk - Haven't given this too much thought. Lafayette Square - The verse matches. The image doesn't. That's all I can say. btregre's photos should help. And, if it is in the garden at the F. Edward Hebert Federal Building, I'm not digging it up. City Park - Also gives me a pretty good vibe. It's huge, and most of it can be quickly ruled out, as it's all golf courses. The flower/Storyland link is okay, but not quite enough. Storyland is also small, and fenced in. I'm sure I could beg the attendant into letting me dig out there. Audubon Park - Incidentally, St. Charles Avenue is this park's northern bound. Audubon is also huge (but largely golf course). Not a lot of visual icons, however. Only one statue in the whole park, IIRC. Harlequin/Tourmaline parks - Nope. Not there. They're both empty lots in the middle of mid-century modern ranches that were all devastated by the flooding. And, there wasn't anything on those lots, ever. It's as if I can make the images fit Armstrong, but the verses fit Lafayette. I brought my team out (well, me, btregre, and 4 other guys who were tagging along before we went drinking on Frenchmen St.), and we were all joking about that awful Jim Carrey movie, 23. In the film, Carrey's obsessively pattern-matching 23 to everything he can find, including instances of the number 32. I've been feeling that way about my 21 and my 15.

Squid - what are your feelings on this piece of property, before it was redone? hxxp://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8≪=30.027779,-90.10146&spn=0.002048,0.004211&t=k&z=19&om=1

forest_blight wrote:: Squid - what are your feelings on this piece of property, before it was redone? hxxp://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8≪=30.027779,-90.10146&spn=0.002048,0.004211&t=k&z=19&om=1 You can see a mask like the one in P7 in every small block with tiled emblems (at Mardi Gras Fountain) (I saw this in a link you give us here: hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=60180#p60180 ) This is why I like the mask as a theme (Mardi gras stuff) more than pointing us to Armstrong Park...

The Giant Squid wrote:: FB and Egbert, you've both inspired me to keep making this verse fit. Let's do a rundown of the city parks quickly... ... City Park - Also gives me a pretty good vibe. It's huge, and most of it can be quickly ruled out, as it's all golf courses. The flower/Storyland link is okay, but not quite enough. Storyland is also small, and fenced in. I'm sure I could beg the attendant into letting me dig out there. ... Giant Squid, When you go to City Park there is another spot that must to see (following Trohn's theories hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=66096#p66096 ) I mean the gardens (exactly 'specimen gardens'), behind conservatory, because this is a close match with top clock's shape and there is the jewel represented. I like this spot because is an apart place and this have a semi-wall hiding from sighting... ...and please, take pics The conservatory is a recent edification... so it's useful to know what kind of building/fountaing/structure stand before in this place... maybe " Only three stand watch " stuff will be clear. (I have to say english isn't my first language, so forgive my odd english)

i don't recall, and can't really find the answer...has the West end been explored? The area where Harlequin Park, Tiara Park, Tourmaline Park and Peridot park are? Also...West end Park, Breakwater Park and Lakeshore park?  (Jewels abound...all the streets are named after jewels) Also--the 'fifteen rows down to the ground must be a wall. A block or stone wall with stones large enough so that it would be practical to find the "middle" of 21. I think the 21st block/stone from the end, in the bottom row is where it's telling us to dig. There really aren't any other instructions in the verse--only to place the park, or the garden, where the casque might have been buried. Anyway, "Jewels abound" in the West end. So, apparently, do parks. There is a harlequin in the image, and there is a Harlequin Park in the West End. The clock has an arch, and the streets around Tiara and Peridot Parks in the West End are arched like this. ck

Taking a look at Jackson Square a little bit as best I can using Flickr and Google.  The Jackson Monument in the center has him on a horse whose head resembles the horse head in the checkerboard pattern of P7 IMO.  A picture in the correct perspective will show its mouth open and ears pointed much the same as the image.  Also in the monument is the inscription "'The Union must and shall be preserved ." Jackson square is right in front of St. Louis Cathedral, where you could say three stand watch: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/toshio1/1017320357/ The floor of the Cathedral has a checkerboard pattern: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/quirk_phot ... 541006517/ It was posted somewhere at some point in time that Mr. Priess had said that there was a casque in/at/around St. Louis.  I can't help but think maybe he didn't really mean St. Louis the city, but instead a park or in/around an area that bears the name.  Several of the cities we have focused on have cathedrals or parks named St. Louis. People often get together to play music on the benches just outside the entrance to the park: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/beccab/27676331/ (not the best pic, but its what I had handy when I got ready to post) Okay, this last picture came up in some of my searches with the tags Jackson, Square, New, Orleans but I can't find anything else to confirm that it really is part of Jackson Square.  Maybe someone in NO can confirm this location?  If it is, then it could be our 15 rows down to the ground: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/monty-china/511707695/ Oh, and one more thing.  I found a picture or two that were dated pre-1981.  It looks like the park might have had a different look/layout then than it does now. I apologize if any of this has already been posted.

Unknown: Okay, this last picture came up in some of my searches with the tags Jackson, Square, New, Orleans but I can't find anything else to confirm that it really is part of Jackson Square.  Maybe someone in NO can confirm this location?  If it is, then it could be our 15 rows down to the ground: Yes, this is Jackson Square. Or rather, just across Decatur St. from it. There do seem to be 15 steps, don't there?

More on Jackson Square: To its left of St. Louis Cathedral is the Cabildo, the old city hall, now a museum, where the finalization of the Louisiana Purchase was signed...Namesakes meeting near this sight? The windows on the upper section of the Cabildo are teired and shaped like the top of the clock in P7: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/smwarnke4/509210884/

shecrab wrote:: i don't recall, and can't really find the answer...has the West end been explored? The area where Harlequin Park, Tiara Park, Tourmaline Park and Peridot park are? Also...West end Park, Breakwater Park and Lakeshore park?  (Jewels abound...all the streets are named after jewels) Also--the 'fifteen rows down to the ground must be a wall. Perhaps the author is playing with French/English translations?  A 'row' can be a term for Street -- Like Ave, or Lane -- and "ground" in French translates to "Terre" . . . so, 15 streets until you get to something with "Terre" in the name?  (Also, a 'down' is a land discription as well . . .) I'm trying to remember what I know of the French Quarter, since my father's side of the family is from that area.  All I do know currently is that New Orleans is not the city it once was, and crime and prices are on the rise.  If anyone goes treasure hunting in the city, they should best go with friends.

Actually, the Mardi Gras Fountain looks rather interesting. I won't have time for a few weeks to head out and check it out, but even if it doesn't have any further clues, it's a hell of a great piece of New Orleans history. It looks like it was under renovation before the storm, and the pre-storm renovation looks .... terrible. I hated eighties public architecture, and nineties public architecture wasn't much of an improvement either. But, anyway, I'll put that at the top of the list for next time. Other things I found out today. From Armstrong Park: 1) There are three rows of fifteen trees in Armstrong Park. I cannot, however, for the life of me, find anything that resembles 21. 2) The New Orleans Municipal Auditorium (now defunct, but a splendid piece of architecture) faces Congo Square. The front of the building has the words: "Commerce, Art, Music, Theater, Athletics, Industry' written across the front. Also, in a very digging-friendly area, there's a grove of 20 live oaks, secluded, just to the west of it. (Not good enough) 3) Several of the buildings on site were so damaged by the storm, that they are unexplorable. The Mahalia Jackson Center is in use as temporary police headquarters, the Reimann, Rabassa, and Caretaker's Houses (along with Perseverance Hall No 4) are all off limits to the public, after the storm (giant razor-wire topped fences defend them). 4) Armstrong is even worse of a dump post-storm than it was pre-storm. From Harlequin and Tourmaline Parks: 1) Give it up. There ain't nothing there but two empty fields (not even a sign marking the park). Some kids were playing rugby. 2) Maybe it points north, to the Mardi Gras fountain. We'll see. From Jackson Square: 1) Give it up. Please folks. There are literally thousands of people walking by and through there every single hour. It's like digging in Times Square. 2) Lots and lots of police. 3) And, not many places to dig. Several patches of dirt, sure. 4 statues in the corner, plus Andrew Jackson in the middle. 4) There no visual cues from the image anywhere in the common environment to point me to that spot. From the Riverfront/Moonwalk: 1) Well, again, cops all over the place. 2) And, the Riverfront is under perpetual renovation, if it was ever hidden there, it's sure as hell gone by now. 3) No visual cues, again. From Audubon Park: 1) Maybe. 2) It does touch St. Charles 3) There's not a lot of architecture out there, however. A small sculpture/fountain at the front. Not much else 4) I'll do some exploring to see. From City Park: 1) Maybe 2) Not really 'feeling' Storyland. You've just got to go there to understand. 3) In late 1982, they gated off the entire botanical garden, so, we'll have to see. So, in summary. 1) Feeling still 'okay' about Armstrong 2) Willing to give City Park another peek 3) Willing to give Audubon Park another peek 4) Very curious about Mardi Gras Park 5) Ruling out Riverfront, Jackson Square for logistical reasons

2fast4u2c wrote:: More on Jackson Square: To its left of St. Louis Cathedral is the Cabildo, the old city hall, now a museum, where the finalization of the Louisiana Purchase was signed...Namesakes meeting near this sight? The windows on the upper section of the Cabildo are teired and shaped like the top of the clock in P7: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/smwarnke4/509210884/ Hey guys, I am a friend of The Giant Squid's and spent a while this weekend looking through some of the parks in N.O. I sincerely doubt that Jackson Square is the park. For one thing, it's small and in the open. I really doubt he'd pick a park so hard to dig in. The architecture mentioned is definitely a good visual reference. Unfortunately, the construct (quoted above) and the arches in the picture are ALL OVER new orleans. I saw literally hundreds of matches while we were there. The horsehead in the picture is definitely the outline of Louisiana. If it's supposed to also point to something else, I don't think it's the horse statue in Jackson square, as there is not much similarity with the actual statue. Other than that, what do we have in -the picture- to match it to Jackson? There are 5 statues in the park, and the surrounding buildings, but nothing really matches anything in the image. I don't like Lafayette park for the same reason. The main thing it has going for it is that boy on the McDonough monument, which definitely looks like the harlequin in the clock face. Other than that, we have no visual matches, it's small, out in the open, and in front of a Federal building. Storyland in city park...the clock there is not that close of a match, just the metal flowers. Definitely no way you're going to be able to dig up that kids park or get in after dark. I haven't seen the gardens behind storyland, but they're gated off now (weren't in 1982.) So I -hope- that's not it. Armstrong Park - we have the arch in the clock face, with many circles and half circles inside the arch - definitely a good match for the moon and star arch in the pictures. We have the Armstrong Mask, great match. The park is big enough to have plenty of places to dig out of view and it's not well traveled. The only problems are that it's been hard to match many of the verse 2 clues to anything in the park. Since I almost got arrested on first attempt I'll have to hold off judgment until I can go back. Mardi Gras park - I hope not that much was changed in the renovation. I see a sun in one of the pictures that matches the arch, but not much else. Definitely need to check it out in person. Visual clues I would like to see a match for: checkers under water III harlequin outline of the sleeve or cuff -> P, -> N I agree, though, that verse 2 is definitely N.O.. I can't imagine a quote about a famous N.O. hotel being used for a different city if N.O. is one of the sites. Anyway, I think we've made some progress. Also nice to meet you guys, since this is my first post. I'm glad there are people still trying to figure out the puzzles. -Forrest

meow wrote:: Perhaps the author is playing with French/English translations?  A 'row' can be a term for Street -- Like Ave, or Lane -- and "ground" in French translates to "Terre" . . . so, 15 streets until you get to something with "Terre" in the name?  (Also, a 'down' is a land discription as well . . .) I'm trying to remember what I know of the French Quarter, since my father's side of the family is from that area.  All I do know currently is that New Orleans is not the city it once was, and crime and prices are on the rise.  If anyone goes treasure hunting in the city, they should best go with friends. I can't really think of any streets named 'row' anywhere in the city. And, if we were using French translations, they'd be 'Rues'. But, strangely, the streets are labeled "Calle".

Welcome, Forrest. I guess the namesakes are meeting on this site!

If the actual "jewel" parks are a bust, then perhaps Lakeshore park, where the fountain is, is a viable option--though from what I understand, the area sustained a lot of damage from K. However, in researching the location, I found this: The Orleans Levee District is committed to the restoration of all properties owned and operated by the District and especially the lakefront.  The current plan is to bring back the lakefront area to its pre-Katrina splendor.  The District has received responses to an RFQ for Architects and Engineers to begin the design phase for repairs.  The funds for the restoration will come from FEMA (90% federal and 10% local) and insurance reimbursements.  The District has submitted damage claims to FEMA totaling almost $100 million dollars.  The roadway, seawall area, boat launch and fishing pier will be reimbursed by FEMA. The four shelter houses, fifteen pavilions , and the Mardi Gras Fountain will be covered by insurance. There are 15 pavilions...though I don't know how these might be considered "rows" of anything. I discovered that "Jewel Street" connects the two halves of the park. Also, does anyone know what the seawall looks like? Is it made of blocks or bricks or stone that can be counted?  Is it perhaps engraved with numbers of any kind? Also: the 'namesakes' might meet at Elysian fields, another part of this area. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elysium c

The Giant Squid wrote:: 1) Give it up. Please folks. There are literally thousands of people walking by and through there every single hour. It's like digging in Times Square. You've got to remember that we are looking for items that were buried over 26 years ago.  Plenty can happen in that time period.  some of the casques could be buried under asphalt or excavated (spelling?) unknowingly by now.  Markers that the author used may have been moved.  Just because it may be wide open and well patrolled now, doesn't mean that the author didn't have the opportunity to hide one there back then.  Not saying he did, just that you can't rule a place out just because it inaccessable today.

2fast4u2c wrote:: You've got to remember that we are looking for items that were buried over 26 years ago.  Plenty can happen in that time period.  some of the casques could be buried under asphalt or excavated (spelling?) unknowingly by now.  Markers that the author used may have been moved.  Just because it may be wide open and well patrolled now, doesn't mean that the author didn't have the opportunity to hide one there back then.  Not saying he did, just that you can't rule a place out just because it inaccessable today. Let me try this again. 1) Jackson Square was just as busy in 1981-1982 as it was today. 2) It's been teeming with people since the 1850s, and even more so since 1974 when the entire area became a pedestrian mall 3) Jackson Square has a large iron fence around it (always has), and is open only during the day when security personnel open it So, even if BP did bury it there in 1980-1982, conditions were only slightly more favorable then to what they are now. So, yes, the place was inaccessible then. Moreover, it's inaccessible today. Which means, simply, we need to rule this location out. Cleveland's casque was hidden in, basically, a parkway in the burbs: hxxp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&c ... &encType=1 And, if you're about to say Chicago's casque was hidden in a public park in the center of town, you'd be right, but keep in mind Grant Park is huge, with lots of spots where you could hide/dig. The casque site here was in a corner, behind a wall, next to a railroad track, and obscured by two rows of 10 or more tree. hxxp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&c ... &encType=1 For comparison, let's look at Jackson Square: hxxp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&c ... &encType=1 So, in comparison: Cleveland's Rockefeller Park and Cultural Gardens:  254 acres. Chicago's Grant Park: 319 acres. New Orleans' Jackson Square: Less than 1 acre, and in the middle of one of the busiest plazas in the United States. Please, everyone, give up this belief in Jackson Square. It's causing for lots of wasted effort.

shecrab wrote:: If the actual "jewel" parks are a bust, then perhaps Lakeshore park, where the fountain is, is a viable option--though from what I understand, the area sustained a lot of damage from K. However, in researching the location, I found this: The Orleans Levee District is committed to the restoration of all properties owned and operated by the District and especially the lakefront.  The current plan is to bring back the lakefront area to its pre-Katrina splendor.  The District has received responses to an RFQ for Architects and Engineers to begin the design phase for repairs.  The funds for the restoration will come from FEMA (90% federal and 10% local) and insurance reimbursements.  The District has submitted damage claims to FEMA totaling almost $100 million dollars.  The roadway, seawall area, boat launch and fishing pier will be reimbursed by FEMA. The four shelter houses, fifteen pavilions , and the Mardi Gras Fountain will be covered by insurance. There are 15 pavilions...though I don't know how these might be considered "rows" of anything. I discovered that "Jewel Street" connects the two halves of the park. Also, does anyone know what the seawall looks like? Is it made of blocks or bricks or stone that can be counted?  Is it perhaps engraved with numbers of any kind? Also: the 'namesakes' might meet at Elysian fields, another part of this area. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elysium I'll head up to the Mardi Gras Fountain and see what it yields. I don't believe there's much to look at from the levees. There's mainly dirt/stone slabs/huge rocks. As for Elysian Fields, I've given a bit of thought to that. There's a quote by William Blake talking about the poems of Cowper, saying that Cowper's work should be read in "Heaven, Havillah, Eden, and all of the places where jewels abound". Elysian Fields evokes the previously named places, to be sure. There are a couple of tiny parks on Elysian Fields, and there are the ones in/around UNO. I'll look next time.

The Giant Squid wrote:: ...So, in comparison: Cleveland's Rockefeller Park and Cultural Gardens:  254 acres. Chicago's Grant Park: 319 acres. ... Using your own words... another point to City Park

The Giant Squid wrote:: ...From City Park: 1) Maybe 2) Not really 'feeling' Storyland. You've just got to go there to understand. 3) In late 1982, they gated off the entire botanical garden, so, we'll have to see. Forrest wrote:: ... Storyland in city park...the clock there is not that close of a match, just the metal flowers. Definitely no way you're going to be able to dig up that kids park or get in after dark. I haven't seen the gardens behind storyland, but they're gated off now (weren't in 1982.) So I -hope- that's not it. ... Squid, Forrest, what is the exact meaning of "gated off"?  can't access this area anymore?

Unknown: As for Elysian Fields, I've given a bit of thought to that. There's a quote by William Blake talking about the poems of Cowper, saying that Cowper's work should be read in "Heaven, Havillah, Eden, and all of the places where jewels abound". Elysian Fields evokes the previously named places, to be sure. Well geez...this sounds as certain as the quote about the St. Charles hotel!! For cryin' out loud...why didn't this get put on here before? Or did it?  (I find this discussion jumps from v.2 threads to v 5 threads to image threads--it's sometimes very hard to trace a conversation.)

Unknown: There are a couple of tiny parks on Elysian Fields, and there are the ones in/around UNO. I'll look next time. I noticed Ponchartrain Park, Lake Oaks Park and the eastern (?) end of Lakeshore Park. There is also the golf course, but it's unlikely he'd be able to dig holes in a golf course--that seems like something punishable.  the grounds around UNO are also rife with possibilities. Something else I noticed: the seawall is quite intact here--and it's a "stepped concrete wall." stepped with '15 rows' of block maybe? The thing that tells me this is a wall is the phrase "from end to end." We're talking about something with definite boundaries here--something that is viewed by its "length"--from end to end--as they noted about the football field earlier. A football field would qualify, but I ddin't see one in the satellite pics. But the "15 rows down to the ground" part says that we're looking for a structure that is composed of components in rows -- vertically arranged -- and components arranged side to side (from end to end) -- horizontally arranged. That just screams "wall". Something else occurred to me while looking:  How many lighthouses are there? I know there's one on the west side of the Lakeshore area, and one on the East--is there a third? ("only three stand watch")  Or was there a third in the 80's?  Why use the word "only" for something metaphoric? It seems to suggest that three is somehow is not enough--or not enough for the space. If one were talking about the three spires at St. Louis, why say "Only" three? However--if someone is referring to lighthouses along a shoreline, ONLY three is a pretty good observation that it may not be enough for the shoreline. Sounds like a better bet to me than the three spires at Jackson Square and any other metaphorical interpretations.

I just answered my own question:  there ARE THREE LIGHTHOUSES.   :app) hxxp://www.atneworleans.com/body/lights-south.htm Only three stand watch.

eljayo wrote:: Squid, Forrest, what is the exact meaning of "gated off"?  can't access this area anymore? eljayo: Oh, I wholeheartedly believe that City Park (500+ acres) is a terrific place to hide treasure, it's my top candidate, immediately after Armstrong (32 acres). As for being gated off, let me explain it as such. Storyland, the Carousel Gardens, and the Botanical Gardens are all, more or less, part of the same 'complex' of buildings in City Park. But, each one has a seven-to-eight foot tall iron fence around it, separating it from the others. And, each has a front gate. From the looks of things, the fence was installed by the Rotary club of New Orleans in 1982. I'd be willing to bet money that there was a similar fence before that time, and the one installed in 1982 was merely a renovation. I don't, however, believe it's in Storyland, but I do believe it might be elsewhere in City Park. The main problem with Storyland, is that it's a tiny area (probably the total size of a football field), with winding paths throughout. At no point can somebody 'hide' while digging, as you're in direct view of the attendant who charges admission for the Storyland front gate, in an enclosed area, and directly visible from the parking lot. The botanical gardens are similar, with a front gate and attendants and all of that. There are other areas around that complex that are easily diggable, but I haven't done enough homework to match any verse or other image.

shecrab wrote:: Well geez...this sounds as certain as the quote about the St. Charles hotel!! For cryin' out loud...why didn't this get put on here before? Or did it?  (I find this discussion jumps from v.2 threads to v 5 threads to image threads--it's sometimes very hard to trace a conversation.) I'm actually the first to have mentioned this quote.

The Giant Squid wrote:: eljayo: Oh, I wholeheartedly believe that City Park (500+ acres) is a terrific place to hide treasure, it's my top candidate, immediately after Armstrong (32 acres).... As for being gated off, let me explain it as such... Thanks Squid. I agree with you that Storyland is more a confirmer (two flowers, purple sleeve/miss muffet, whale and gnomes in pic) than a spot. For the reasons I said before, I like more specimen garden " Near this site ". The fact is that City Park Fit very well with verse 2 in his first 4 lines and lead us close to Storyland/gardens zone. I like your effort and I'll be expecting your thoughts about NO casque. Thanks again

The Giant Squid wrote:: Let me try this again. 1) Jackson Square was just as busy in 1981-1982 as it was today. 2) It's been teeming with people since the 1850s, and even more so since 1974 when the entire area became a pedestrian mall 3) Jackson Square has a large iron fence around it (always has), and is open only during the day when security personnel open it So, even if BP did bury it there in 1980-1982, conditions were only slightly more favorable then to what they are now. So, yes, the place was inaccessible then. Moreover, it's inaccessible today. Which means, simply, we need to rule this location out. Cleveland's casque was hidden in, basically, a parkway in the burbs: hxxp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&c ... &encType=1 And, if you're about to say Chicago's casque was hidden in a public park in the center of town, you'd be right, but keep in mind Grant Park is huge, with lots of spots where you could hide/dig. The casque site here was in a corner, behind a wall, next to a railroad track, and obscured by two rows of 10 or more tree. hxxp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&c ... &encType=1 For comparison, let's look at Jackson Square: hxxp://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&c ... &encType=1 So, in comparison: Cleveland's Rockefeller Park and Cultural Gardens:  254 acres. Chicago's Grant Park: 319 acres. New Orleans' Jackson Square: Less than 1 acre, and in the middle of one of the busiest plazas in the United States. Please, everyone, give up this belief in Jackson Square. It's causing for lots of wasted effort. I was making a general statement not to rule out any particular spot just because it may be busy now.  I wasn't speaking of just Jackson Square.  That is why the quote had the reference to Jackson Square purposely missing. I don't think you can rule out any particular area based on size either.  One of the casques seems to be nailed down as being in FOY Park, which is a resounding 15 acres.  The area in Milwaukee being search currently is probably around the same size as well.  Just because the two that have been found were in 200+ acre parks doesn't mean you can rule out anything less.  Who's to say there aren't some out there buried in areas only a city block in size.  Once again, I'm not arguing for Jackson Square, simply making a point.

The Giant Squid wrote:: From Harlequin and Tourmaline Parks: 1) Give it up. There ain't nothing there but two empty fields (not even a sign marking the park). Some kids were playing rugby. 2) Maybe it points north, to the Mardi Gras fountain. We'll see. From Jackson Square: 1) Give it up. Please folks. There are literally thousands of people walking by and through there every single hour. It's like digging in Times Square. 2) Lots and lots of police. 3) And, not many places to dig. Several patches of dirt, sure. 4 statues in the corner, plus Andrew Jackson in the middle. 4) There no visual cues from the image anywhere in the common environment to point me to that spot. From the Riverfront/Moonwalk: 1) Well, again, cops all over the place. 2) And, the Riverfront is under perpetual renovation, if it was ever hidden there, it's sure as hell gone by now. 3) No visual cues, again. So, in summary. 1) Feeling still 'okay' about Armstrong 2) Willing to give City Park another peek 3) Willing to give Audubon Park another peek 4) Very curious about Mardi Gras Park 5) Ruling out Riverfront, Jackson Square for logistical reasons Giant Squid, thanks for the work you and Forrest are doing on this Verse. It is great to have hunters on site and sharing lots of pictures no less. I don't think we can rule out a park based on the ease of a performing a daytime dig without people and police noticing. BP has proven and said he has gone to great lengths, including disguise, (probably nighttime digs) to bury the twelve casques. Parks for other casque locations have strong landmarks. It seems to make more sense to put a park on the back burner due to lack of landmarks rather than odds of daytime witnesses. So, I like your idea of not focusing on parks like Harlequin and Tourmaline, which are featureless. Fifteen rows down to the ground This line could mean all 15 rows go to the ground. (Vertical instead of horizontal rows)

Sonoran wrote:: Giant Squid, thanks for the work you and Forrest are doing on this Verse. It is great to have hunters on site and sharing lots of pictures no less. I don't think we can rule out a park based on the ease of a performing a daytime dig without people and police noticing. BP has proven and said he has gone to great lengths, including disguise, (probably nighttime digs) to bury the twelve casques. Parks for other casque locations have strong landmarks. It seems to make more sense to put a park on the back burner due to lack of landmarks rather than odds of daytime witnesses. So, I like your idea of not focusing on parks like Harlequin and Tourmaline, which are featureless. Fifteen rows down to the ground This line could mean all 15 rows go to the ground. (Vertical instead of horizontal rows) We're not ruling parks out based on size. But I don't think we're going to waste any more time on them until larger more likely parks are ruled out, especially since I'm not seeing many strong matches for the clues. Also, if we have to dig in front of that federal building...we may end up on the news long before we find any buried secrets. The problem with these obfuscated clues and images is that you can make one or two of them fit pretty much any location on earth. Bottom line, don't worry, we have a large scoreboard and cross references for all the clues and which ways we can make them fit every park we've been to. Let's focus on the most likely locations first, though.

Forrest wrote:: The problem with these obfuscated clues and images is that you can make one or two of them fit pretty much any location on earth. The old human brain is a pattern-matching dynamo, and there were a number of posters here, just 2 weeks ago absolutely convinced that this V pointed to a horse track. Currently, Forrest, btregre, and I are placing more value on visual cues from the image (as they undeniably help identify the park more easily). We've also got a theory about the structure of the V's, and we'll share that as we move along.

1. Since we've already got the Verse 2/Image 7 link established, shall we go ahead and make a new topic? (New Orleans/Verse 2/Image 7), or something like that? 2. I went to the Mardi Gras Fountain on yesterday, and I couldn't really find 15 or 21 of anything. There are a few dozen (30-40, maybe more) monuments to past Mardi Gras Krewes, but nothing particularly pointing to the image or the verse. The only thing I really found behind the fountain was a grizzled old man wearing panties and a metal-band t-shirt. I wish I were lying. 3. I went, again, to Lafayette Square. It is a beautiful match for the verse, not so much for the image. And, I don't know how to dig out there without it being a 'federal incident'. 4. Went to City Park as well, and the sound of friends (mainly kids) does fill the afternoon there. The Casino Building, Popp's Bandstand, the Peristyle, etc are all within a block of each other, and all 'seem' like the kind of architecture that BP went for. 5. Went to Audubon Park, and this is going to be the toughest sell.

The Giant Squid wrote:: 2. I went to the Mardi Gras Fountain on yesterday, and I couldn't really find 15 or 21 of anything. There are a few dozen (30-40, maybe more) monuments to past Mardi Gras Krewes, but nothing particularly pointing to the image or the verse. The only thing I really found behind the fountain was a grizzled old man wearing panties and a metal-band t-shirt. I wish I were lying. The verse actually spells out 15 rows so there is little doubt that you are looking for 15 of something, but it just says in the middle of 21 so you could be looking for something representing 21 instead of 21 of something. Some things to possibly look: something in the shape of a horseshoe, or more specifically the letter U something with XXI a statue of a sports star with jersey number of 21 (a stretch i know) something representing a 21 gun salute (bigger stretch)

21---Twenty-one Also known as Blackjack Comprised of and ACE and a FACE CARD--or ACE/TEN..  There are a lot of possibilities with this in NO. Ace-King Ace-Queen Ace-Jack Ace-ten

Okay.....I was just blown away by this: Did you know that the area around St. Louis, Missouri comprised St. Louis and St. Charles counties? And that St. Louis has a Lafayette Square? And there is a community nearby called Blackjack? hxxp://www.thewashingtonredheads.com/st ... louis_city how bizarre....

This was found in only a few moments of research. I beg your collective pardon if this is old news, or if someone has said these things before, but I was rather surprised and astounded and can't ignore it... St. Louis, Missouri has a region called "The Jewel Box." (where jewels abound.) I know this has been mentioned, because I've read it here. But that's the OLD news.  We've been basing this verse on the sentence from an old book about "sovereign people etc." The phrase referred to The St. Charles hotel in NO.  Again, old news.  But as you can see from my post above, St. Charles is one of the counties comprising the city of St. Louis MO. And St. Louis also has a Lafayette Park--which most of us has agreed is a close match for the verse. So if "jewels abound" in a Jewel Box, and St. Charles is a confirmer for both, then what else can be found? Well, check out the pictures below. There's our "harlequin" in the image. A vintage baseball player. He's even in a similiar pose! There's the archway in the image. There's the scrollwork of the clockhands in the image. "fifteen rows"--the lafayette square in St. Louis is surrounded by ROWhouses. "In the middle of 21" --21st st is one of the perpendicular streets bordering the park. Might also be a house number. the park has lots of pictures. Google it. I hate to do this, but you know what? It just might explain the reason we can't pinpoint the thing in NO. There are a lot of similarities between the two cities: St. Louis ALSO has a mardi gras celebration.  Yes, the little 'horsehead' does look like the state of Louisiana upside down. But--it ALSO looks like a horsehead. And there are horse-drawn carriages through Lafayette Square in St. Louis.

very good 21 reference shecrab.  That was an obvious one that i just flat out overlooked.  The whole blackjack, ace, king, queen, jack thing might turn out the be of significance with this one.

Wow, Shecab!  You may have just solved a big mystery. The St. Louis location satisfies all of the clues that point to a New Orleans-type place and goes along with the people that say that New Orleans is too obvious.  This is a great find and definately worth exploring. I wish I could help you out but I don't forsee visiting St. Louis. Is there anyone in Missouri? Shannon

I wish I could go! I am in Ohio, so it's a bit of a trip for me, too. I think this location certainly deserves more exploration--I've been trying to find other things that confirm it and have found a few images that I can't reproduce for one reason or another. Either the images aren't copyable from the websites, or they aren't clear enough. Blackjack Missouri has its own website! It's a 'burb outside St. Louis, but it's an incorporated burb with its own mayor. However, I have looked at several maps and "in the middle of 21" probably doesn't mean Blackjack Missouri, the town. It may  mean 21st Street, which is one of the streets that runs perpendicular to our possible park, but "in the middle" would be somewhere away from the park, too--so I'm once again thinking as I have before, that '21' could be the 21st stone of a wall. There is a retaining wall around one of the other parks--Forest Park--close by. At the "jewel box" website, I saw a stone structure that has a similar appearance to the archway and clock of the image...but I couldn't find it anywhere else and couldn't get a high-res picture of it. We need someone with a good camera to go there and take some recon photos! Another interesting thing: the stars and moon in the picture: there is a planetarium nearby! And the Worlds' Fair Pavilion has an interesting structure as well. Could be could be.... c

shecrab (and all)-- I am here in St. Louis, and I have puzzled this much.  I have frequently hunted in Forest Park and a couple of times in Lafayette Park.  I can check out anything y'all want.  Let's go for it!

johann wrote:: shecrab (and all)-- I am here in St. Louis, and I have puzzled this much.  I have frequently hunted in Forest Park and a couple of times in Lafayette Park.  I can check out anything y'all want.  Let's go for it! Although I have sincere doubts about St. Louis having any casques, and I'm sure it's a fine town (as I believe any town founded by the French can't be all that bad), I do enjoy the fact that St. Louis is in "y'all" country.  I'll have to make a trip there, in good time.

Johann, I agree, let's try it. Why not? It can't be any worse than New Orleans! I say let's see if there is a wall somewhere in Forest Park or Lafayette Square with 'fifteen rows' of blocks or bricks then count them from end to end to find block/brick #21. Consider that the wall may be outside the park, nearby. That is my first guess. My second one is the addresses on the row houses. if there is a #21 I'll be very pleased indeed. My third guess would be some sort of number of something--i.e, the 90 trees in Forest Park. My fourth is that 21 means some sort of game--blackjack--or reference to cards that make 21--the ace/face or ace/ten combo. I know there's a casino near the area as well--and the river has boat casinos--but did they in 1980? I dunno. Exploration was done in St. Louis as regarding image 9 and verse 7, not verse 2. Perhaps the different verse will lead to different connections. I would also check out the area around The Muny--according to the history of the place, it was founded as a place to hold "a masque and pageant"--and that could account for the pageant mask in the image. I just can't find enough info on line to ask the right questions! Gnomes and fays meeting---that would be the Square, since that is the reason it was set aside in the first place as a park. The thing that is puzzling is "only three stand watch."  There are only two statues in Lafayette (if statues are what BP meant, though that's sort of doubtful here.) I don't know what's in Forest Park. The link didn't work on the home page for the place. Forest Park does have a 'tree walk' where you can see over 90 different trees in less than a mile, so maybe it's talking about three of the same kind of tree--or a kind there are only three OF?  When I was looking into NO, I saw that lighthouses could reasonably be said to "stand watch." Maybe it's something like that--or maybe it's some other type of "sentry" thing--lights, lampposts, spiritual/religious ornament--even EYES. And look at this page: hxxp://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/par ... story.html Look at the third picture down from the top. What is that 'archlike' thing in that picture? Is it still there? Take lots of pictures!!

Talking about Lat/Log references in Pics... What is St.Louis latitude? 38º? Do you see any reference to this number on P7? Or what Pic match this verse leading us to St.Louis?

you could make an argument for a 38 in a few places on Image 7. Here's just one of them. Remember, the latitude and longitudes are not exact. Nor (apparently) are all of the numbers pointing to them. In Image 2, I clearly got LLs for Canada, but others found them for Charleston SC.  So there's a lot of interpretation.

shecrab wrote:: you could make an argument for a 38 in a few places on Image 7. Here's just one of them. Remember, the latitude and longitudes are not exact. Nor (apparently) are all of the numbers pointing to them. In Image 2, I clearly got LLs for Canada, but others found them for Charleston SC.  So there's a lot of interpretation. Agree... could be could be. (I've my own theory but don't have a casque, so...)

I have spent much time in the Jewel Box area, but perhaps I should revisit the area and Lafayette Park.  I did not find any 15 or 21 walls in Forest Park.  The arch-like structure in the 3rd picture is the Vandeventer gate construction.  Alas, nothing 15 or 20 in that thing.

Johann, see what you can find in the JEwel Box area....but here's another place to explore, and I wasn't able to get too many images of this one--but there's some intriguing information. Tower Grove Park. There are three statues in this park--apparently it's the only park in St. Louis with 3. They 'stand watch' down the middle of the park. it's just a few blocks from Lafayette Square.  What's interesting here is that there is a "mock ruins" in the park, made from the limestone blocks from a hotel that was torn down, and they also have 10 'whimsical' pavilions.  This seems just the place to hide the casque...fays and gnomes admiring and meeting---that sort of place. I know Lafayette square is small--and probably not the ideal hiding place. But this place might be.

Shecrab, Here's  a link. I checked out Tower grove park awhile ago and actually it isn't that far from Forest park, Just down the road a bit. [url][/urhxxp://stlouis.missouri.org/parks/tower-grove/Welcome/map.html] Carol

Well, Carol...heheh...had just a bit of trouble with that link. Here's one for the map. I read up on the statuary in the park and according to the website, there are four, not three, statues. However, the map only shows three. There are numerous busts of composers, scattered all throughout the place, though--so maybe a grouping of three of those is what the verse refers to. hxxp://stlouis.missouri.org/parks/tower ... me/map.htm

I extensively explored Tower Grove Park years ago.  In fact, it was my solution that I emailed to BP.  He said I was correct in thinking St. Louis, but I had the wrong location.  Did he mean the wrong park or the wrong spot in Tower Grove Park?  I don't know. I never counted the stones in the mock ruins, but perhaps I should try that. I used to live down the street from the park and would go there often.

Hmm, I was about ready to write off St. Louis until you reminded me BP actually confirmed it for you. Do you think he might have been playing games with you? For example, he could have hidden it in Parc St.-Louis in Montreal, or near St. Louis St. in New Orleans, and that would technically qualify. Can someone please explain how we got back to St. Louis, since we now know these 3 lines to be a New Orleans reference? Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! We know absolutely, positively, without a doubt that these lines are from Sarmiento, and that he is referring directly to New Orleans in the quote. Image 7 practically screams New Orleans. Why then must this P/V combination be St. Louis? I don't get it.

forest_blight wrote:: Hmm, I was about ready to write off St. Louis until you reminded me BP actually confirmed it for you. Do you think he might have been playing games with you? For example, he could have hidden it in Parc St.-Louis in Montreal, or near St. Louis St. in New Orleans, and that would technically qualify. Can someone please explain how we got back to St. Louis, since we now know these 3 lines to be a New Orleans reference? Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! We know absolutely, positively, without a doubt that these lines are from Sarmiento, and that he is referring directly to New Orleans in the quote. Image 7 practically screams New Orleans. Why then must this P/V combination be St. Louis? I don't get it. Well, if you ignore the lon/lat combination, and the word 'preservation', and the moon/stars motif, and the fact that the verse refers directly to a hotel in New Orleans, then of course it's St. Louis.

Unknown: Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! We know absolutely, positively, without a doubt that these lines are from Sarmiento, and that he is referring directly to New Orleans in the quote. Image 7 practically screams New Orleans. Why then must this P/V combination be St. Louis? I don't get it. The writing referred NOT to New Orleans, but to a specific HOTEL in New Orleans: The St. Charles. St. Louis straddles two counties: St. Louis county and St. CHARLES county. St. Louis also has a mardi gras. The Muny, the theatre in Forest Park, was founded to PRESERVE a MASQUE and PAGEANT. (quote from the website taken from the founder's original charter.) And "Preservation" could refer to many things--including the extensive PRESERVATION that St. Louis has done in its downtown areas, and most specifically in its parks. The "harlequin" in the clock face looks just like one of the vintage baseball players that regularly play in the parks. The scrollwork on the clock hands is found in the fence surrounding Lafayette Square. The arch is found in Forest Park, in the water fountain picture I posted, in many many many of the architectural details around St. Louis, especially in the Preserved areas! The moon/stars motif can just as easily represent a nearby planetarium, and there is more than one way to interpret the numbers--and more than one SET of numbers, as there are in all the images. You guys thought the idea of Niagara Falls for Image 2 was bunk, but there are latitude and longitude numbers in THAT image that lead you right to the spot . (AS WELL as numbers that lead you CLOSE to Charleston SC.) So, you base that image interpretation entirely on the map in the mask--and IGNORE the other latitude and longitude--any reason I can't do the same here? I'm not saying its definitive. However, it might as EASILY be St. Louis as New Orleans. There are a lot of similiarities between the two cities...and as Johann says, he got confirmation from BP himself that there was a casque there. I know that another verse and image were being explored for St. Louis--image 9 I believe. Yet, nothing ever came of that--nothind more definitive than seeing the outline of the jewel box in the figure's collar. This image at least has more than just one or two items that seem to match. From studying the Cleveland and Chicago solves, I surmised that not every element in the pictures OR the verses matches perfectly with the actual solution. And after 20+ years, that might be more pronounced. It was just alternative thoughts...but not unfounded ones.

shecrab wrote:: The writing referred NOT to New Orleans, but to a specific HOTEL in New Orleans: The St. Charles. St. Louis straddles two counties: St. Louis county and St. CHARLES county. shecrab wrote:: St. Louis also has a mardi gras. The Muny, the theatre in Forest Park, was founded to PRESERVE a MASQUE and PAGEANT. (quote from the website taken from the founder's original charter.) And "Preservation" could refer to many things--including the extensive PRESERVATION that St. Louis has done in its downtown areas, and most specifically in its parks. The "harlequin" in the clock face looks just like one of the vintage baseball players that regularly play in the parks. The scrollwork on the clock hands is found in the fence surrounding Lafayette Square. The arch is found in Forest Park, in the water fountain picture I posted, in many many many of the architectural details around St. Louis, especially in the Preserved areas! The moon/stars motif can just as easily represent a nearby planetarium, and there is more than one way to interpret the numbers--and more than one SET of numbers, as there are in all the images. Unknown: You guys thought the idea of Niagara Falls for Image 2 was bunk, but there are latitude and longitude numbers in THAT image that lead you right to the spot. (AS WELL as numbers that lead you CLOSE to Charleston SC.) So, you base that image interpretation entirely on the map in the mask--and IGNORE the other latitude and longitude--any reason I can't do the same here? shecrab wrote:: I'm not saying its definitive. However, it might as EASILY be St. Louis as New Orleans. There are a lot of similiarities between the two cities...and as Johann says, he got confirmation from BP himself that there was a casque there. I love a spirited debate. It is true that Sarmiento was extolling the virtues of the St. Charles, but the sovereign people he was referring to are the people of New Orleans. Let me explain why I think this is a stronger reference to New Orleans than to St. Louis. The subtext of The Secret has to do with immigration and visitors to the new world. We know BP had Abroad in America on his shelf, which is all about visitors to the new world. If I were in BP's shoes and looking for obscure references to the locations where I'd just buried 12 casques, I might look up those locations in the index of Abroad , go to the relevant page, and extract something obscure from the text. He intended his riddles to be solved, so I can easily imagine him thinking, "I will put a veiled reference to New Orleans in the text. Eventually someone will track down the source of the quote, figure out what Sarmiento was talking about, put 2 and 2 together, and concentrate on New Orleans." Furthermore, New Orleans is on the coast (along with all the other casque sites, known and strongly suspected) - points of entry for immigration, so it matches the theme. My point: If the true site is St. Louis, there is no easy way for BP to have found that quote. You can't get to that page in Abroad by looking up St. Louis in the index. You CAN get to it by looking up New Orleans. The latitudes and longitudes in P7 match New Orleans, not St. Louis. Attaching "Preservation" to St. Louis is tenuous (almost ANY city has a historic area that has been "preserved"). New Orleans, on the other hand, has the world-famous Preservation Hall, providing a strong link. Yes, there are multiple potential explanations, but in weighing the evidence for New Orleans against that for St. Louis, I think New Orleans definitely wins here. I can't see how P2 could match anywhere *other* than Charleston. We have the map, which is undeniably Charleston, the African immigration theme from the book (which matches Charleston a lot more than Niagara). We have a quote in one of the verses that pertains to Charleston. The four numbers in P2 exactly match the latitudes and longitudes enclosing the Charleston quadrant: It is possible for St. Louis AND New Orleans to be sites. It could be that P9 is the St. Louis image after all, and that P7 goes with New Orleans.

Forest, you may love a debate, but you're not debating as much as trying to convince me of something that in my way of thinking has more than one possibility. Sure you can argue that the Sarmiento passage referred directly to New Orleans. That's pretty direct, in fact--here's a passage referring to a place in NEW ORLEANS, and the word "Preservation" is one closely associated with NEW ORLEANS and the mask looks a tiny bit like Louis Armstrong (and a lot more like Bill Maher,) and the arch in the clock looks like his park's gate, which is in NEW ORLEANS. I agree, it's pretty much screaming NEW ORLEANS. These are very direct references. And that, my friend, is the most persuasive argument that it's NOT NEW ORLEANS.  Was there ever any DIRECT reference to Cleveland OR Chicago? Has there been any DIRECT reference to St. Augustine Florida? Houston Texas? Nope. Not ONE. In spite of the 29/90, there can be other numbers in that image--at least three places where I can see you make a 38 to go with that 90--which would put it in St. Louis. Look at the chin of the mask--I clearly see an 8--and the 3s could be in several places. (See attachment) St. Charles is a pretty broad reference--I realize that. It ISN'T a broad reference, however, to have BP tell one of us that yes, there is indeed a casque buried in St. Louis. There wasn't any luck with Image 9--why not try another one? I'm not even going to get into the Charleston/Niagara Falls debate. Really. I had enough matching information to make the verse 10 match the picture, inlcuding the map--but you all have your own ideas here. I was unable to go to NF to confirm any of mine, so until I can, I won't hold to it, except to tell you that it matched as much as YOURS did. At this point, that's not saying much. And what makes you think BP took the route of finding the quote AFTER he chose the site? Maybe--MAYBE--it was the other way around. Maybe he found the quote, saw the name St. Charles, and thought about St. Louis--NOT N.O...I doubt you can pin his thoughts down here at this point.  Or the path he took to encode the riddle. There's really no need to debate anything. At this point, it's anyone's guess.

shecrab wrote:: Sure you can argue that the Sarmiento passage referred directly to New Orleans. That's pretty direct, in fact--here's a passage referring to a place in NEW ORLEANS, and the word "Preservation" is one closely associated with NEW ORLEANS and the mask looks a tiny bit like Louis Armstrong (and a lot more like Bill Maher,) and the arch in the clock looks like his park's gate, which is in NEW ORLEANS. I agree, it's pretty much screaming NEW ORLEANS. These are very direct references . shecrab wrote:: And that, my friend, is the most persuasive argument that it's NOT NEW ORLEANS.  Was there ever any DIRECT reference to Cleveland OR Chicago? Has there been any DIRECT reference to St. Augustine Florida? Houston Texas? Nope. Not ONE. shecrab wrote:: In spite of the 29/90, there can be other numbers in that image--at least three places where I can see you make a 38 to go with that 90--which would put it in St. Louis. Look at the chin of the mask--I clearly see an 8--and the 3s could be in several places. shecrab wrote:: St. Charles is a pretty broad reference--I realize that. It ISN'T a broad reference, however, to have BP tell one of us that yes, there is indeed a casque buried in St. Louis. There wasn't any luck with Image 9--why not try another one? shecrab wrote:: And what makes you think BP took the route of finding the quote AFTER he chose the site? Maybe--MAYBE--it was the other way around. Maybe he found the quote, saw the name St. Charles, and thought about St. Louis--NOT N.O...I doubt you can pin his thoughts down here at this point.  Or the path he took to encode the riddle. I didn't think of the Bill Maher resemblance, but you're right! For the record, I'm not too enthusiastic about the arch theory. One can find arches and circles everywhere, so they're just not diagnostic unless some detail or other makes it an exact match. So far as I can tell, the verses do not have direct references to locations. "Direct," I guess, would entail including a phrase like "Incidentally, the casque is buried in New Orleans" into a verse. Anything short of that should perhaps be considered indirect. But some references are less indirect than others. I like some of the evidence you've presented, I just don't think it is as overwhelming as the evidence in favor of New Orleans. I like the baseball player reference, for instance. Were they doing this sort of thing c. 1981? I think it is potentially fruitful to imagine ourselves in BP's position, as he constructed the riddles. It is more likely that he wrote the riddles after burying the casques than before. Without having been there, he could not have known the layout of these locations in the detail necessary to write about them. Perhaps he already knew a couple of choice spots, but all 12? So let's say he buries the casque in St. Louis and wants to write a cryptic riddle. He notes that St. Louis is near St. Charles County, so he needs a veiled reference to something involving St. Charles. So far, I could go along with that, except that St. Louis isn't in St. Charles County. One would have to exit St. Louis City, traverse St. Louis County, and then enter St. Charles County. Even granting that BP really means to refer to St. Charles County, I think it highly unlikely that he could come upon the St. Charles reference in Abroad in his search because the St. Charles Exchange Hotel is not in the index of Abroad in America . It would be a fantastic coincidence to have buried the casque in St. Charles County, then just happen to encounter the exact sort of phrase he needed to provide a cryptic reference to it. A more parsimonious explanation is that he buried it in New Orleans, then simply flipped through the index of Abroad until he found what he was looking for. This would not have been difficult, since there is only one page in the entire book that mentions New Orleans, p. 110. So sure, I think it's possible that V2 refers to St. Louis rather than New Orleans, but to say V2 could "as easily" be St. Louis as New Orleans is a tough sell. Maybe I am alone in thinking this. Granted. If we try hard enough, we could get any numbers 0-9 out of P7. But you have to really try to squeeze a 38 out of it, when 29 is sitting right there. Parsimony. I think our collective efforts would be wasted trying to make P7 to fit St. Louis, when there is much stronger evidence in favor of New Orleans for this one. Of course not, but we can speculate, weigh probabilities, and try to imagine ourselves in his shoes. We know BP took advantage of trips he already had planned for other reasons for purposes of economy, so it is unlikely that he was inspired by the quote to visit St. Louis, then planned a "business trip" to St. Louis as a cover for his real purpose.

Unknown: So let's say he buries the casque in St. Louis and wants to write a cryptic riddle. He notes that St. Louis is near St. Charles County, so he needs a veiled reference to something involving St. Charles. So far, I could go along with that, except that St. Louis isn't in St. Charles County. One would have to exit St. Louis City, traverse St. Louis County, and then enter St. Charles County. Even granting that BP really means to refer to St. Charles County, I think it highly unlikely that he could come upon the St. Charles reference in Abroad in his search because the St. Charles Exchange Hotel is not in the index of Abroad in America. It would be a fantastic coincidence to have buried the casque in St. Charles County, then just happen to encounter the exact sort of phrase he needed to provide a cryptic reference to it. A more parsimonious explanation is that he buried it in New Orleans, then simply flipped through the index of Abroad until he found what he was looking for. This would not have been difficult, since there is only one page in the entire book that mentions New Orleans, p. 110. Unknown: Granted. If we try hard enough, we could get any numbers 0-9 out of P7. But you have to really try to squeeze a 38 out of it, when 29 is sitting right there. Parsimony. Unknown: I think our collective efforts would be wasted trying to make P7 to fit St. Louis, when there is much stronger evidence in favor of New Orleans for this one. I'll give you this scenario....St. Louis is not in St. Charles county--but next door to it. HOWEVER, it has a prominent St. Charles Street, which used to be known as the King's Road.  It might not be the only reference--it was just the first one I found. I agree about arches. They're everywhere. As for direct references, this particular image is a lot more direct than any of the other images or verses; it blatantly says "Preservation."  It blatantly holds up a mask. Of course one would think New Orleans. It doesn't need to be more direct than that!  But none of the other unsolved images have anything that drastic in them so that you can be certain of where it's referring you to except maybe the city hall in Milwaukee. What in the image, for instance, screams "Chidlren's Zoo?" or "Fountain of youth Park?" I know there are some parts of these images that fit--and some parts don't--with each idea that we've had. Why not St. Louis AS WELL AS New Orleans? Seeing as there hasn't been any further pinpointing of the casque IN New Orleans, I don't see the problem with thinking it might not even BE there. Oddly enough--I found these references completely by accident. I was looking up names, things that had been mentioned, etc, and St. Louis just came UP over and over again. Frankly, I was rather surprised, since I hadn't given St. Louis any thought at all beyond reading through the i9 threads. When I saw the vintage baseball player, I thought "now how often will you see that outfit--and that's actually what started my research in St. L. The "vintage clubs" (resurrected ones) may not hae been around in the 80's but that isn't the point of the connection: St. Louis is considered one of the cradles of the sport--much baseball history took place there. Sportsman's Park, St. Louis Starting back in the 1870s, baseball was played at Sportsman's Park. Around the turn of the century the St. Louis Browns began playing here, and in 1920, the St. Louis Cardinals moved in and shared the park until 1953. Sportsman's Park was home to the Cardinals until May 8, 1966. After leaving the stadium, Anheuser-Busch and August A. Busch, Jr. donated the property for use as a private recreational facility, the Herbert Hoover Boy's Club, which opened in 1967. If you stop by, it's still possible to play on the exact spot where almost 100 years of St. Louis baseball history took place. )Quote from the Naional Trust for Historic Preservation website) This is one of those places where baseball has been played continuously since it was an organized sport. Isn't one of the images using the warts on someone's face for numbers? I wouldn't call that obvious either. That's just it...I think the "evidence" is about equal. In other words, there IS no evidence beyond a quote in an old book. The rest of the information is just that--information gathered from the sources we're all using, i.e., the internet. As for collective efforts, nothing says we can't research BOTH places. There are people in both places who can physically go and take photos.  What's the big deal, really?

shecrab wrote:: Why not St. Louis AS WELL AS New Orleans? shecrab wrote:: That's just it...I think the "evidence" is about equal. In other words, there IS no evidence beyond a quote in an old book. The rest of the information is just that--information gathered from the sources we're all using, i.e., the internet. As for collective efforts, nothing says we can't research BOTH places. There are people in both places who can physically go and take photos.  What's the big deal, really? I agree - that is entirely possible. Likely, even. That's a good point. Here is something to chew on. BP came out and told johann that there is a casque in St. Louis. My opinion (and that's all it is, an opinion) is that neither V2 nor P7 go with St. Louis (and that they go with New Orleans instead). So what does that leave us with? I'm going to assume here that the V3 location is Boston, given all the "Midnight Ride" references, and that V7 goes with San Francisco. We have: P1/V7:  San Francisco P2/V6:  Charleston P3/V11: Roanoke P4/V4:  Cleveland P5/V12: Chicago P6/V9:  St. Augustine P7/V2:  New Orleans P8/V1:  Houston P10/V8: Milwaukee V3:    Boston That leaves unaccounted for: P9 P11 P12 V5 V10 Some pretty good arguments have been put forward for P9 and St. Louis, but what Verse? The focus has been on V2 for St. Louis, but if it isn't V2, it is probably either V5 or V10. Maybe we should be trying hard to find links between V5 or V10 and St. Louis.

Geez... Either one of you two would kick my butt in a spirited debate, so I'd like to try to keep out of it. The big problem I see is that we have 10 probable locations with 3 more possibilities. New York St Louis Canada I still like v3/p11 for Boston.  So that leaves us with two verses and two pics with three possible cities remaining. V10 V5 P9 P12 (why we still argue whether this is NY or not kills me) So let's just say that P12 is NY with either v5 or v10. That leaves P9 with either V5 or V10 in either St Louis or Canada. This point I try to make kind of fails when you think that BP confirmed St Louis, and somebody here swears he also said there's one in Canada. That would seem to leave NY out in the cold.  So, until we dig one up, we are all full of it!

Forest_blight. You are not alone.

I have been pondering the "only three stand watch" line from this verse and wondering what it could mean in the St. Louis location scenario. There is a park that I don't believe was explored--or if it was, I couldn't find evidence of it. The Missouri Botanical Gardens. This seemed like it might just be one we overlooked. And there's a sculpture there, called "Angel Musicians" by Carl Milles. It consists of three musician angels on top of large pillars in the reflecting pool in front of the Climatron. Ordinarily this would have elicited just a nod from me--there are groupings of three things in a lot of places, and so what? However, this one is significant for another reason. They are ONLY three parts of the original sculpture of FIVE angels. The line reads, " ONLY three stand watch."  The original five angels are in the sculptor's home garden in Sweden. As vast as the Botanical Gardens may be, there might not be that many places to hide the casque, since the book states that no casque will be hidden in any public or private flower beds.

Quite true.  I have extensively explored the Botanical Gardens.  I cannot imagine someone digging there without getting immediately arrested.  But there are possibilities.

Where would you think one might be, for instance? The online info about this place is pretty good.

I do not have any precise locations in mind, but I have noticed the three fairies.  If anyone is ever in St. Louis, it is definitely worth the trip (whether or not there is a treasure there).

I think my girlfriend and I are going to come up to St. Louis on the 21st for the weekend.  We will probably prowl around in several parks and snap some shots on the ole' digital camera.  Any places you recommend staying?

With BP's penchant for obscure literary references, we should consider the possibility of other lines having some meaning. So I spent some time on: Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. So I looked up all the references to fays delight and fay's delight in Google Books, just to be complete. The possessive form appears in three sources: Studies in the Fairy Mythology of Arthurian Romance , by Lucy A Paton, 1963, p. 156: Corinth, a tragedy; and other poems , by Charlotte de Humboldt, 1838, p. 94: Whispers of Fancy , by J. W. Schenck, 1856, p. 91: "No thought can equal the Fay's delight, As she practiced each well known lay; Then giving her hand to..." The Works of the English Poets, from Chaucer to Cowper , by Alexander Chalmers and Samuel Johnson, 1810. From the poem "To the Moon" by Robert Lloyd: The Eclectic Review , by Samuel Greatheed et al., 1815. On C. Leftly's posthumously titled poem, 'Flights of Fancy': The Reader's Handbook of Allusions, References, Plots and Stories , by Ebenezer Cobham Brewer, 1889: Ireland's Abbey Theatre: A History, 1899-1951 , by Lennox Robinson, 1951: "It seems clear that there were two dominant factors in the Society, first the Fays' delight in drama and then an intense patriotic feeling on the part of the players. Sinn Fein was beginning to stir." Prominent Edwardians , by Dudley Barker, 1969: "While the Irish National Theatre had remained an indigent, homeless group, it had been dominated by two factors, as one of Yeats's assistants put it -- the Fays' delight in drama, and an..." Flowers; their moral, language, and poetry , ed. by H. G. Adams, 1844: Fairylife and fairyland, a lyric poem, communicated by Titania through her Secretary, Thomas of Ercildoune , 1870: The remaining references were other publications containing the same poems and quotes. A third possibility, one that I don't think we've considered, is that Fay is a person's name (as in Fay Wray or Morgan Le Fay), not a generic word for "fairy." Maybe there was a famous "Fay" or Faye," and if we could identify her we could identify the source of her delight. A fourth possibility is that Fay is... wait for it trohn... a thoroughbred race horse! There was a racehorse named "Faye's Delight," foaled in 1974. Another (?) horse from Australia was named Fayes Delight. I found references to this second horse from the late 1990s. A fifth possibility, one that has been brought up before, is that it could be a play on words for "face the light," which would be meaningful only if we had already found the proper spot. I could find no references to gnomes admiring anything.

Have you considered the poem "The Gnome and the Fay", by Frank F. Sherriff?

Nice find!

2ast4u2c-- I am sorry.  Ihave just noticed your message.  I would like to hear your ideas (we all would) and see the pictures.

johann wrote:: 2ast4u2c-- I am sorry.  Ihave just noticed your message.  I would like to hear your ideas (we all would) and see the pictures. Didn't make it up there over the weekend.  My girlfriend's daughter got sick.  We are going to try to make it up there within the next month.  There are several areas I'd like to walk around and get some pics.

forest_blight wrote:: Finally, read my post of May 7. Do we have any hunters in the N.O. area? Wilhouse, isn't Houston sorta close to N.O.?? uh, no...like a 5 hour drive... wilhouse (spent from failing in houston...)

boogieman wrote:: This point I try to make kind of fails when you think that BP confirmed St Louis, and somebody here swears he also said there's one in Canada. I guess I always assumed that by telling us they are across North America, it included Canada. Or else it would have said across the US... wilhouse

There seems to be enough evidence for Salt Lake City for this painting to try the next step of matching a verse. A few things about Verse 2 seem to ring true for me. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! These lines always fit the Mormons of Salt Lake City for me. My real purpose for this post is not those lines though. I want to share some thoughts on: Gnomes admire Fays delight These lines seem so out of place. As gathered from dictionaries and Wikipedia a Gnome is dwarflike creature who lives underground and guards buried treasure. So what is would a gnome admire? Gold color? Gems? I use to think Fay was only a reference to Fairies, but a recent internet search revealed another interesting Fay. Fay Wray was an actress best known for her role as Ann Darrow in the original King Kong movie. It turns out Fay Wray grew up in Mormon communities including Salt Lake City. I’m not sure what that all means, but I thought I should share in case someone can make sense of it. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fay_Wray

Only three stand watch I’ve noticed you can find three things standing watch many places. I think the part of this line that may help us is the word only . Why did BP use “only”? Why not just say “Three stand watch”? “Only” implies there are no more; just these. This leads me to a monument located in Temple Square. In Mormon history a group of three leaders signed a statement in 1830 that an angel had shown them the golden plates from which Joseph Smith, Jr. said he translated the Book of Mormon and that they had heard God's voice testifying that the book had been translated by the power of God. These three men became known as the " three witnesses". A monument for these three witnesses stands prominently in Temple Square. Witnesses can imply “only”. Since witnesses are the only people that would have witnessed a specific event, maybe this has some merit. Does this fit “Only three”? hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Witnesses Three Witnesses Monument

What about this: hxxp://protophoto.com/picture.html?pic=5656 I can't tell if there are three at the top or not, though...

Killian32 wrote:: I can't tell if there are three at the top or not, though... According to the website below, there are 3 people on the monument. "On July 24, 1947, exactly 100 years after his declaration, a heroic-sized bronze sculpture of Young and two of his colleagues was placed atop a 60-foot pedestal overlooking the Valley." hxxp://www.thisistheplace.org/titp_monument.html

Whew, just read all 16 pages in this thread. I have to say I am a little surprised that "Here is a sovereign people" hasn't been talked about as meaning one of the states that has sovereignty, the commonwealths of Massachusetts, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Kentucy. I read in the beginning of the thread some talk about Churchill Downs matching up with the namesake part so why not have Kentucky also match the verse because it is a state that has sovereignty?

Probably because it didn't really matter in the context of the places we thought this verse might pertain to. It's certainly an interesting idea, and one I never thought of, so once again, good job!

insatiable wrote:: Whew, just read all 16 pages in this thread. I have to say I am a little surprised that "Here is a sovereign people" hasn't been talked about as meaning one of the states that has sovereignty, the commonwealths of Massachusetts, Virginia, Pennsylvania and Kentucy. I read in the beginning of the thread some talk about Churchill Downs matching up with the namesake part so why not have Kentucky also match the verse because it is a state that has sovereignty? I am the only one to favor this theory so I haven't been posting about it (much) and have been persuing the site to allow a review of the spot.... In Priess' verses, he tends to use synonyms as often as possible in order to allow subjectivity to the solves - sovereignty in this case probably can be replaced with 'Royalty', 'King' or 'Queen'. Horse racing is the 'Sport of Kings' With the same method, 'Heads' can also be replaced with a synonym. (I have selected 'horses' obviously)

Trohn wrote:: I am the only one to favor this theory so I haven't been posting about it (much) and have been persuing the site to allow a review of the spot.... In Priess' verses, he tends to use synonyms as often as possible in order to allow subjectivity to the solves - sovereignty in this case probably can be replaced with 'Royalty', 'King' or 'Queen'. Horse racing is the 'Sport of Kings' With the same method, 'Heads' can also be replaced with a synonym. (I have selected 'horses' obviously) "Their heads for a night!" night could also be =knight, like in chess the horse head Either way you put them it could still match Kentucky Anyway, in Louisville I found this pic of a tornado sculpture that has 15 rows, don't know much about it just that it's in louisville and seen the 15 "rows" to the ground and I thought it was cool so I thought I'd post it.

Unknown: Another thing we should do is go to www.google.ca and run the "heads for the night" etc quote through this version of Google. This is the Canadian version of Google it is not likely we will get a match. We then need to find a large Canadian book collection someplace on line. Ideally it will have a .ca ending. We should run this same quote through its search features. If we get no match either place this almost definately is the New Orleans verse. Doing these additional checks will ensure that this verse does not go to Quebec City or Montreal. We've already found the book - it's "Abroad in America." We know this because the "Edwin and Edwina" bit is also in that same book . Out of millions upon millions of books that have ever been published, the odds of finding two definite references from The Secret in some other book are vanishingly small.

What are you talking about Fox? I agree more less Forest Blight I am just a little conserned that the verry first idea that this goes with Quebec City may be right. I do not think this is the case but I can not be sure. That is why we should do this second search to eliminate that possibility. Over the next few weeks I hope to contact some historical societies and park and recreation departments in some of thesee cities to try to connect some of these verses to images. The first thing I will try to do is eliminate St. Louis for this verse and thus baring any supprises from the canadian book search confirm this goes to New Orleans. Then sometime after Mardi Gras we can work with the New Orleans parks and recreation department to find this exact location. Giant Squid knows more but it looks to me right now like City Park has the casque someplace. The P&RD likely have maps and other material from the early '80s we can use to find this location. I think we may find this casque.

I have recent reason to believe I can confirm that verse 2 goes with New Orleans, which I posted in another thread, but will re-post here: By going through the poem, line by line, top-to-bottom, and crossing out duplicate letters that are not on the same line (sort of like eliminating pairs of tiles from a mah-jong game), the following letters are left: J C V W U L O M M Y A K E E N R S I when anagrammed, these can spell: ORLEANS KEY W VI MJC MU (Orleans kew, Ward 6, Mahalia Jackson Center -- I have no idea what 'MU' could be) Also, by circling all the doubled letters in order of appearence , you can get the string: T E D E F L O E T you can spell: OLDE FETTE  (which to me screams Mardi Gras, since 'fette' is French for "party") So I think after this, I'll wander over to the "It must be somewhere in the Big Easy"  Camp, and use the same method on the other verses, and post whatever I get in the appropriate spot.  Of course, if I am wrong in my method, as I have been before, then I am wrong and no hard feelings.  But I shall keep researching to see what I can dig up when my copy of the full book comes in

Unknown: since 'fette' is French for "party") Not quite. The French word is "FETE" not fette.

True -- which would leave us with the possibility of: OLDE T FETE Which might be considered "Old Tuesday Party"  -- but is seems more a a reach since it's Fat Tuesday, and not old.  Perhaps I missed some letters, or this is just not what the anagram means to say. I do have a feeling it is a clue for something, as this type of thing occurs in the other verses I have worked on so far.  I will keep poking at it. . . .

meow - I'm all for new ideas, but I think you're really, really on the wrong track here. T E D E F L O E T also spells: delete oft = must be where they manufacture keyboards doe fettle = where can we find sand and deer? Florida! dote fleet = where the Navy is celebrated? Virginia! dottel fee = what states have a tobacco tax? All of them. Must be a U.S. casque fee lotted = a place where they divvy up moneys received? Las Vegas feel toted = ah, a ski lift! Colorado feet toled = transparent organic light-emitting devices on your feet felted toe = moccasins! must be Wisconsin feted tole = gilded metalware for parties - where do they make costume jewelry? lofted tee = a golf course at high altitude; again, Colorado ...and dozens more You can make these anagrams mean anything you want, so they're simply not helpful. Don't waste your time!

Unknown: dote fleet = where the Navy is celebrated? Virginia! To De Fleet!! Let's all go get enemas!!

Following up on Forest's comment -- Sadly, the Secret isn't about anagrams and coded messages.  It's about interpreting the verses and images, which is a whole 'nother animal.  There's been one verse with an acrostic (SELOY), but that was more of a quirk of that particular solve.  I wish there were more ciphers and less interpretation, because at least there would be solid solves, and ciphers would stand up over the years... unlike having to try to reconstruct locations based on how they looked 30 years ago.

Here is a picture of the City Park sundial that I believe is the interpretation for "At the place where jewels abound" and much of the rest of the verse. Here is the way it fits: At the place where jewels abound The 18' sundial. Reference is to a timekeeper like a jeweled watch or clock. Fifteen rows down to the ground 15 hashes counter clockwise from between the “2” and “1” to the end (ground) In the middle of twenty-one The “1” and “2” seen upside-down (from top) From end to end From “6” to “6” on sundial. Only three stand watch The number 3. There is only one 3 on the watch. There are two "2""1" combinations on the sundial. We are to dig at the one next to the “three”. This one was a little tricky to get a feel for at first, but I really like the results. Well done BP.

Here is a picture of the playground to the west of the sundial area. We just had a friend test it. The playground is definitely within earshot of the sundial. This fits for lines " As the sound of friends " and " Fills the afternoon hours ".

That playground was NOT there in the early eightites, and I will tell you why-- Because the common building material for playgrounds up until the nineties, was wood and steel pipes.  And I know this because my preschool and my elementary school had such fixtures until WELL after I went to middle school.  Arguements against may include funding, resources, or any other reason why a public school might NOT have gigantic plastic slides and such...  But little rock-climbing wall was not popular until recently, and all of that plastic is too shiny to have been much more than five at the most.

It is possible that a wood playset was there at one time. Regardless this is one therory that should be investigated. Now two other things: how close is this to storyland? and what is the namesakes meeting? Nomes admier fays delight could definately be talking about Storyland. If this therory does not find the casque then the Mardi Gras mask is the namesakes meeting and is key to finding the dig site.

sonoran, i love your pictures, and that sundial right there at that building, wow! did your friend not poke at 12:00 at the sundial????

slappybuns wrote:: are the 3 little pigs in storyland? for only 3 stand watch? night-knight, gnomes and dwarfs or trolls? surely there's a fairy or ogre. i really feel it's right there at Storyland. I was just in NO and had about 20 minutes to visit City Park.  Storyland was closed, but I took some pics through the fence.  I also took a look around the Peristyle, stone arch bridge, and the Popp bandstand.  Focusing on Storyland a little: "In the middle of twenty-one" There are 26 separate stories depicted there.  Maybe we need to stop at the 21st one? "Only three stand watch" Yes, the 3 little pigs are there in Storyland.  I will get a picture on here soon to show that.

Great picture, Jambone. Do you have more? What are the 26 stories? I look forward to hearing more!

reading these posts makes me realize that I still have yet to post all of my pictures that we took while in the big easy.  My regular comp is in the shop but [glow=red,2,300]I Promise[/glow] I will post my pics as soon as we get it back from the shop.  I took lots of photos in both City Park & Jackson Sq area {where I am now leaning to being the casque's location}. Storyland is not tooo far from the sundial.  The sundial is however on the back side of a large building.  Let me try it this way. 1.  Do a mapquest search for City Park, New Orleans LA 2.  Dreyfous Ave runs through the bottom portion of the park.  If you do "aerial image"  you will see the Peristyle (oval shaped bldg) just east of Anseman Ave.  Continue east on Dreyfous to the next prominant bldg (at the end of Tennis Court Ln).  This is the old Casino and just south of it is the sundial (you can see a small circle on the aerial image).  The "arch" bridge is just south of the sundial. 3.  To get to Storyland from the sundial, you can either cut across the large parking lot diagonally to the northwest or go north on Tennis Court Ln and west on Victory Ave. 4.  Storyland is the area north of the end of Anseman Ave with what looks like a round tent and a couple of smaller bldgs...it is NOT the area containing the large bldg and arch shaped markings in the grass. Looking at this aerial shot of the area as well as remembering my visit...I would have to say that it would be nearly impossible to hear children playing in Storyland from the sundial.

forest_blight wrote:: Great picture, Jambone. Do you have more? What are the 26 stories? I look forward to hearing more! Actually, that pic came from flickr - it was better than mine. "Fifteen rows down to the ground" "Fifteen rows" could be a levee (15 rows of stones, blocks, etc.), and "down to the ground" could mean coming down from the levee/water to reach the ground.  According to Wikipedia, levees were built along the south side of Lake Pontchartrain (which is just north of the Mardi Gras Fountain, Harlequin Park, Tourmaline Park, and City Park) in 1947 and then made higher in 1965.

I wonder if there were 21 stories in 1981 or is the 21st of 26 stories  3 little pigs. if so I would dig in the center of the 3 pigs...

Just a thought for verse 2...and Montreal Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Montreal used to offer accomodations for one night...in the Ice Palace Hotel built every winter. hxxp://www.infohub.com/vacation_packages/1785.html Their sovereignty was accomplished on April 18,1982, The Constitution Act of 1982 ended British legislative control of Canada, and established the country’s fundamental laws and civil rights. Queen Elizabeth II It signed it on April 18, 1982, at Parliament Hill in Ottawa. Hmmmm... AP

Just an observation of the Mount Stephen Club... It has 15 steps (rows) down to the ground. ... You can count them using these 2 photos. AP (Just for fun, you can watch a video clip of Mount Stephen Club on You Tube.) hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu12uIS4Eo4

Er...where among all that concrete of those steps do you think Preiss dug the hole?

Shecrab, If you look at other pictures of Mount Stephen Club, you see that there is grassy garden area on both sides of the building. I will post some pix later... AP

Yes, I know...I was just being a smart-alec.

Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting near this site. There is a statue of Robert Burns...Scottish poet.. in the nearby park, Dorchester Square. He would write about such "fairy folk", but I have not done a search for any "namesakes" yet. AP

At the place where jewels abound Just Google on "Cartier" and Montreal and see just how many references you get... If you Google on "where jewels abound", you will find a few literary references. One is "Ordinary Wisdom": hxxp://tinyurl.com/5loar3 just looking around... AP

forest_blight wrote:: I didn't think of the Bill Maher resemblance, but you're right! For the record, I'm not too enthusiastic about the arch theory. One can find arches and circles everywhere, so they're just not diagnostic unless some detail or other makes it an exact match. So far as I can tell, the verses do not have direct references to locations. "Direct," I guess, would entail including a phrase like "Incidentally, the casque is buried in New Orleans" into a verse. Anything short of that should perhaps be considered indirect. But some references are less indirect than others. I like some of the evidence you've presented, I just don't think it is as overwhelming as the evidence in favor of New Orleans. I like the baseball player reference, for instance. Were they doing this sort of thing c. 1981? I think it is potentially fruitful to imagine ourselves in BP's position, as he constructed the riddles. It is more likely that he wrote the riddles after burying the casques than before. Without having been there, he could not have known the layout of these locations in the detail necessary to write about them. Perhaps he already knew a couple of choice spots, but all 12? So let's say he buries the casque in St. Louis and wants to write a cryptic riddle. He notes that St. Louis is near St. Charles County, so he needs a veiled reference to something involving St. Charles. So far, I could go along with that, except that St. Louis isn't in St. Charles County. One would have to exit St. Louis City, traverse St. Louis County, and then enter St. Charles County. Even granting that BP really means to refer to St. Charles County, I think it highly unlikely that he could come upon the St. Charles reference in Abroad in his search because the St. Charles Exchange Hotel is not in the index of Abroad in America . It would be a fantastic coincidence to have buried the casque in St. Charles County, then just happen to encounter the exact sort of phrase he needed to provide a cryptic reference to it. A more parsimonious explanation is that he buried it in New Orleans, then simply flipped through the index of Abroad until he found what he was looking for. This would not have been difficult, since there is only one page in the entire book that mentions New Orleans, p. 110. So sure, I think it's possible that V2 refers to St. Louis rather than New Orleans, but to say V2 could "as easily" be St. Louis as New Orleans is a tough sell. Maybe I am alone in thinking this. Granted. If we try hard enough, we could get any numbers 0-9 out of P7. But you have to really try to squeeze a 38 out of it, when 29 is sitting right there. Parsimony. I think our collective efforts would be wasted trying to make P7 to fit St. Louis, when there is much stronger evidence in favor of New Orleans for this one. I just finished catching up on this thread.  Wow, I don't see how this verse is anything but New Orleans.  The Sarmiento quote makes that conclusion unavoidable, IMHO.  It seems that instead of trying to fit this verse in with other cities, we could probably pinpoint a pretty close location if we put our heads together and just concentrated on New Orleans while we examine the rest of this verse.   :group)

and here is poor me still trying to find reference of this miraculous quote by Sarmiento...

ok ok ok.... I finally found this: "JSTOR: A United States Tour by Sarmiento in 1847Previous experience had taught Sarmiento that every city in the United States had .... Behold the sovereign people which builds for itself palaces under the ..." as an intro to a google search...but when I go to the link it is not included.  How does the whole section go?  Yup, I would have to say that this is pretty definitive indeed. Quotes...looks like we need to comb through the unsolved V's to locate quotes...

Egbert wrote:: I just finished catching up on this thread.  Wow, I don't see how this verse is anything but New Orleans.  The Sarmiento quote makes that conclusion unavoidable, IMHO.  It seems that instead of trying to fit this verse in with other cities, we could probably pinpoint a pretty close location if we put our heads together and just concentrated on New Orleans while we examine the rest of this verse.   :group) I did, at one time, think that the verse and picture were probably indicative of St. Louis. I no longer think that. I'm back with NOLA. The St Louis theory did not pan out well in detail. Only in, er, theory.

I will post it here again for convenience. Fox, this quote is translated into English elsewhere, but we know "Abroad in America" is the right source because the exact same book contains a reference to twins in Charleston being named "Edwin and Edwina" after Edward Wilmot Blyden. The presence of both references in the same book gives a great deal of credence to both. To clarify my position, this quote is not intended to be a specific reference to the St. Charles Exchange Hotel (which no longer exists), but rather to the people of New Orleans. Hence, it is a specific tie to New Orleans.

yeah, what he said

Thanks for reposting that FB.  It must have been posted originally while I was trying to keep up w/ the boards on my cell phone and it probably didnt come through.  I see that you even blocked out the quote in question...my question...is that how it is in the book also?  Set apart from the other paragraphs?  Not that it really matters, I was just curious. Yeah, I would have to say that that pretty much locks up this V for New Orleans ...but Jackson Square could still be right.... ps...you know what I just realized? and I am soooooo embarrassed This is Andrew....not Stonewall...

The text is not set apart in any special way in the book. I highlighted the text by placing a box around the quote and increasing the brightness inside it.

fox wrote:: ps...you know what I just realized? and I am soooooo embarrassed This is Andrew....not Stonewall...   :-\ No sweat, Fox --- "Stonewall" is not part of this verse!  I think we've been talking about the same verses for so long, that we get them tangled up sometimes.  Even Cafe du Monde in Jackson Square is irrelevant, since the air does not need to smell sweet here.   :D  Here is verse 2: At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. Inscription on Andrew Jackson's statue:  "The union must and shall be PRESERVED." hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=hxxp://lh6.ggpht.com/_odVa75HKojs/RlB2civDJII/AAAAAAAAB6A/PwTlmMlNcNg/IMAGE_00166.jpg&imgrefurl=hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/C9vnWp83FvbLFqtjcXUSLw&h=1600&w=1280&sz=14&hl=en&start=14&um=1&usg=__gJDiUMXMGm1xX78cE8NSfsUMQS0=&tbnid=lyusumNVUP4JKM:&tbnh=150&tbnw=120&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dandrew%2Bjackson%2Bsquare%2Bnew%2Borleans%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den That's one of the tie-ins to Image 7.  Also, I guess I should post this in the Image 7 thread, but if you look closely at the hands of the clock, you will see a hidden "JS." Hmmm.  Only 3 stand watch?: hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d8/StLouisCathedralJacksonStatue.jpg&imgrefurl=hxxp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:StLouisCathedralJacksonStatue.jpg&h=2495&w=1927&sz=1414&hl=en&start=13&um=1&usg=__6Gk0VoUtEW83N-UNmOSa4Vrlpgg=&tbnid=ErzutYIYLcdS1M:&tbnh=150&tbnw=116&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dandrew%2Bjackson%2Bsquare%2Bnew%2Borleans%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den Let's dissect this verse some more. [url][/url]

i still like 2fast's comment on the football field having 21 lines, and the next line in the verse says "from end to end", which could still be a football reference, i think.  i don't know anything about football but i think i recall hearing the words  "tight ends"  ............... , or the "end lines" and remember, supposedly the way you get to the cask isn't in order in the verse, so maybe the cask is closer to the tad gormley football field. and then the part " gnomes admire, fays delight the namesakes meeting, near this site" could just be "near storyland" ..........

Where Jewels Abound is an entire section of New Orleans. All the streets are named after jewels and so are two parks. This is where the Mardi Gras memorial is So now we're back to this verse, eh? I wondered what happened here. (I think we all got a bit sidetracked.) hxxp://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&q=r ... 1&t=h&z=16 Oh, and Fox...about Stonewall Jackson--he sort of epitomizes the south. And lots of people think Stonewall (Thomas) was Andrew--but he was actually more important than Andrew, even though Andrew became president. About the 'end to end' line: I know there are ends in football, but I don't think Preiss had it in mind that we should look between two of them--unless they were helping him bury the casque.  LOL...

I like that part of town for this, too, shecrab. But couldn't "jewels abound" simply refer to New Orleans? I mean, it's all about the beads down there.

slappybuns wrote:: i still like 2fast's comment on the football field having 21 lines,  .......... I think you mean "Eljayo" comment... hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h ... 070#p67070

forest_blight wrote:: I like that part of town for this, too, shecrab. But couldn't "jewels abound" simply refer to New Orleans? I mean, it's all about the beads down there. Yeah...I agree that it probably does just refer to NOLA. But it helps to confirm that NO has these streets like this---I don't know another city that has an entire neighborhood of "jewel" streets---does anyone else?

Looking at Egbert's link I thought of this match.  Not real good.  But standing in front of the Cathedral makes it look real good. hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... %26hl%3Den

Re: verse 2 « Reply #286 on: Today at 11:54:56 am » Yeah...I agree that it probably does just refer to NOLA. But it helps to confirm that NO has these streets like this---I don't know another city that has an entire neighborhood of "jewel" streets---does anyone else? yes not as large, im sure theres more somewhere in u.s.a., i think its another confirmer to the right area in N. O. if this is the v for p-7 in north ridgeville ohio hxxp://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&i ... _medium=ha

i'm sorry eljayo, i did do a search on who said it, i somehow got 2fast's name.  sorry

forest_blight wrote:: I like that part of town for this, too, shecrab. But couldn't "jewels abound" simply refer to New Orleans? I mean, it's all about the beads down there. Beads arent jewels, I dont think that makes sens.

You know, bead necklaces at Mardi Gras? Cheap costume jewelry?

point Forest_Blight

Still I think it means the streets named after the jewels At the place where jewels abound no place in New Orleans fits that better then the are of NO encompassed by Lakeshore drive, marconi drive and Robert E Lee Blvd. It includes several parks and a levy area, including one park called Harlequin Park. Fifteen Rows Down to the Ground. In the Middle of Twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch. This I believe is the section detailing the exact location of the casque based on objects visible in the area in 1981. My best guess is the Rows down to the ground means something down the slope of the levy, down to ground level... As the sound of Friends Fills the afternoon hours. Indicating a park or recreation area. Here is a Sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads fo a night Quote to definitively associate this verse with New Orleans Gnomes admire Fays Delight The namesakes meeting Near this site From this location Storyland in City park is less then 5 minutes travel across the canal and the namesakes of Gnomes and fairies all meet in storyland.

Unknown: Gnomes admire Fays Delight The namesakes meeting Near this site From this location Storyland in City park is less then 5 minutes travel across the canal and the namesakes of Gnomes and fairies all meet in storyland You don't have to go that far....the Mardi Gras memorial is just north of this area...and the Krewes are all memorialized there with plaques. The "namesakes" could be the krewes. hxxp://mardigrasfountain.com/ hxxp://mardigrasfountain.com/krewes.htm Check out the Krewe of Apollo--prominently beneath the arched sun is a date: 1929.

Shecrab, How many fountains are there in that Mardi Gras fountain?...21? I was sure that the harlequin would have been on one of those plaques! AP

Er, there's just the one fountain. It has more than 21 jets of water--but "in the middle of 21" would be smack in the middle of the water. I doubt that would work. I find it interesting that there isn't a single Krewe that was founded in 1921.

Shecrab, I was not thinking of stepping into the middle of the fountain, but bisecting it on the perimeter...It would be an unusual way of referring to "the middle" of twenty-one...if there were diggable areas around the border of the fountain. Just thinking.... AP

I tried that AP. Here's a good view of the fountain from Google Earth: There's no "21" anywhere to bisect. I mean, there are more than 21 lampposts around it, there are only 16 Krewe plaques on the top (horizontal) row of plaques on each side--so you can't use it there, and there are 14 Krewe plaques on the row closer into the fountain itself than the outer row. The rest is pretty much featureless expanse of grass. I have seen pics of this fountain before and after Katrina. The general layout is the same. Nothing was there in 1981 that isn't either still there or insignificant--(i.e. the shelter houses.)

Well either storyland or the fountain, the point being that is nearby, not the location of the casque. it is merely an area confirmer. The characters of storyland make more sense to me as gnomes and fay's namesakes then the krewes which unique, arent very fay and gnomelike. but no matter as it is an area confirmer. at the place where jewels abound, to me pretty much places it inside the levy. outside the levy the streets are not named for jewels. 15 rows down to the ground.  maybe the levy itself, a wall, a staircase, a sign... here is a wall/gate set into the levy... hxxp://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=en&g ... 8&t=h&z=20

I also notice harlequin park actually sits on jewel street. if you are in the middle of the park you are surrounded by right around 25 houses. I wonder if in 1981 there were only 21 houses there. Also if you use google maps street view, there are 3 things in the park, I have no idea what they are, might be just trash or some work equipment, or maybe they are 3 permanent fixtures ie rocks or something else. could that be 3 that stand watch?  probably not but just throwing it out...

maltedfalcon wrote:: I also notice harlequin park actually sits on jewel street. maltedfalcon wrote:: Also if you use google maps street view, there are 3 things in the park, I have no idea what they are, might be just trash or some work equipment, or maybe they are 3 permanent fixtures ie rocks or something else. Did you notice what the street on the other end of the park was called?  Turquoise St...yup, P7's jewel is turquoise. I see what look like 2 large electrical boxes and the 3rd is an elevated thing with stacks or barrels atop.  They all appear to be permanent but do they stand watch?

Sorry, one other little tidbit I find interesting.  When trying to find pics of Harlequin Park on Flickr, I was innundated with pic after pic of a rugby team named the Harlequins...... ........from....... OTTAWA don't you love how these pics all seem to be tying together?

There are no pictures of Harlequin park because there's nothing there. And the floodgate MF posted---is the same one I posted a pic of. Isn't anyone listening to me at all?

shecrab wrote:: Isn't anyone listening to me at all? did someone say something? here are some maps of the area in question and yes, it does look quite barren...but...on a couple of these maps, click on the "birds eye view" for some really neat looks at the park.  This also comes in handy if you drag the map on over to City Park or even Jackson Sq. hxxp://www.placenames.com/us/p535528/

Yeah, I've been there. (or should I shout this?????)     :-* HELLLLLLLOOOOOOOOOOO....anyone home????? LOL... I know there are some little things---little trees, little trash cans...etc. Nothing, however that would actually be used as a marker to hide a casque. I proposed this location some time ago...and everyone told me then that the location was just too empty of features to fit into the verse or the pic. so I kinda shut up about it then. However, there were other things that I also thought about then that may be of importance here. There are more than two parks: Tourmaline and Harlequin are like the big back yards in the nieghborhood. Nothin' there, just grass and a few trees. No benches, or statuary, no buildings etc. The other two parks are Tiara Park and Peridot Park. There is a strange barrel-shaped park "gate" ornament thingie at the corners of each. However.....down the middle of Canal Blvd, there is open, grassy, park-like area that runs for the full length of the Boulevard ---FROM END TO END . (!)  There is also statuary there--I have seen something that looks like a monument, memorial--whatever--on one of the blocks. And the land in front of the levees, to the north of Lakeshore Dr. and at the North End of Canal Blvd, is park-like and treed...and may yield something. Trouble with this, is that the area isn't "named" anything so you can't find anything definitive on Google. The neighborhoods were devastated by Katrina, as was the shore of L. Ponchartrain--and anything that was there is gone. Restaurants, businesses, etc. I don't think the casques are in any of these four parks. There wouldn't have been anything to "tie" them to there--verse-wise. But the area in the middle of Canal Blvd could be fitted to a line or two... Oh...and I almost forgot to add this: The length of Canal Blvd's grassy middles runs from Canal Roadway at the South End of it, (just S. of I-610) to the shore of L. Ponch---and there are exactly 21 "blocks" of area on the Blvd. In other words, it's 21 blocks long. (In the middle of 21?)

Shecrab Im sorry, I do read everything you post! I just posted my picture a short time after yours and hadnt read your message in the other thread yet. Why does there have to be "something" in the park. There are those little square buildings throughout the area. (I assume they are pumps) perhaps those buildings are made of 15 rows of cinderblocks who knows 3 stand watch could be trees, or signs or rocks... I'm thinking the spot to dig is equidistant from whatever the three things that stand watch are, (they are standing watch over the burial spot) those barrel shaped gates are bus stops I think. I like your thinking on 21 blocks... that makes sense. BTW the jewel area, harlequin park, et all didnt flood during katrina...

If I were going to dig a hole in a park, I would rather have it be "off the beaten path" to not draw unwanted attention.  This area around the Harlequin Park would have been perfect for BP to bury a box. All of the images in P7 give us the New Orleans location...narrowing down the search area from an entire continent...The verse brings us into focus  on "where jewels abound". This place has my vote. AP

I'm sorry--what buildings??? There are no bulidings in Harlequin park! those structures that surround it are private homes! And both parks are surrounded on all sides by private homes--and no casque was buried on private property.  The "things" on the satellite pic of Tourmaline park are Semi Trucks--probably removing debris. The last satellite pic was taken some time after Katrina. There are no buildings in either Tourmaline or Harlequin park. This is extraordinarily clear from the street view. There is only one structure in Harlequin, and it looks like it might be a public restroom, or perhaps a maintenance shed--no bigger than a small lean-to. It doesn't look like it's made of blocks, AND it's right next to Jewel Street--so I'm voting here for public restroom--I doubt it's anywhere near there. And it (the casque) has to be near something --BP didn't bury these in the middle of an open expanse of grass! How would you be able to dig it up?  Get a bunch of boy scouts with shovels to dig a hole every 3 feet apart?  (This is getting surreal in a way--like the plot of the movie "Holes") You do need something to key onto, MF---you can't just say "it's in a park.  Find it. Dig a hole somewhere." you have to be able to sight to the location, and then pinpoint it.  Remember, these boxes are not that large--maybe a foot square? and the hole was only 3 feet deep. That's not a large area. AP, I don't see how the area around Harlequin is "perfect" since it's all private houses--please explain. Are you talking about the park itself? Or outside of the park?

actually Animal painter said perfect, I said possible. There are at least 3 structures in Harlequin park, If you are using google earth they dont show up very well. street view on google maps works better. If you are using street view go around to the other side of the park. I agree the casque has to be near something. that something could simply be a tree or a rock or a lean-to type shed. the small square buildings actually are pump stations they are located throughout the area. If you are suggesting that from street view in google maps you can see what the buildings are made of, you cant. I have a large screen monitor so I can blow up the street view quite large, but the resolution is not there to show what the construction is. someone will need to go look. It could be cinderblock or poured concrete or perhaps is just simple siding. I am not suggesting digging up the whole park- I am suggesting we solve the verse and dig exactly where the casque is. the things I am suggesting are really quite specific. ie 21 houses around the park, cinderblocks for rows, 3 objects in the park. I realize the verse needs to key into something so I am making specific suggestions. you said there are no walls on the levee, I pointed out several. you said there are no markings on levees I pointed out several ways for there to be markings. you said there are no buildings in harlequin park, there are at least 3 yes they are small but they are still structures in the park. At the place where jewels abound, is quite clear, meaning this neighbor hood, the harlequin on the clock matches the name of the park I am not saying it must be in harlequin park, but I think it is in this neighborhood perhaps in a park there are at least 4 here or perhaps on the levy, or perhaps along the center street (canal?) Again while it needs to be buried near somthing for reference ( 3 things keeping watch) those things dont need to be huge important objects.  cleveland was buried in the back of a planter and chicago was in a non-descript corner of a park, kind of like harlequin... Again I am not saying it has to be in harlequin park, but I am pretty sure it is in this neighborhood.

i also like the 21 blocks of grassy area. is there anything noteworthy at the halfway point of this area?

I didnt see anything and it was south of the jewel neigborhood, but still worth investigating more.

i still like the second line being a road (roads), fifteen rows down to the ground...........15 roads down to the ground from harlequin park to city park (as someone mentioned long time ago)

shecrab wrote:: That's not a large area. AP, I don't see how the area around Harlequin is "perfect" since it's all private houses--please explain. Are you talking about the park itself? Or outside of the park? Shecrab, I am referring to the entire area around that section of parks and streets. The Jewel names and other clues make this out-of-the-way neighborhood, a place to easily bury a box. The boulevard of trees is very interesting and offers "rows" and objects to count. Remember that one of the essential clues in the Chicago-find depended on trees in a row. (some of which no longer existed at the time of discovery). The object the harlequin is carrying, could be outlining a section of the area...with the semi-circular "notch" being the  "X" marking the spot...(unless someone recognizes the shape as something else.) By the way, Shecrab...finding all of the jewel-streets was a very good piece of work! AP

I think this is the New Orleans Verse but the clues in the Image indicate City Park. I do not think Storyland is the casques location. A key line is namesakes meeting. Storyland was likely locked up at night Their are three areas in City Park that are named after somebody Marconie Meadow is one I do not remeber the others off the top of my head. One of these areas is likely the casque's location. I think the Grandfather Clock could also be a clue we are missing.

that's exactly what i think scottrocks,  "near storyland" (outside the fence) maybe a locked gate or something because of the picture something like this maybe, for afternoon hours: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/rogie_la/2070907577/

Don't forget that the daffodils (narcissus) in the clock face of P7 have some larger-than-life counterparts in Storyland.

scottrocks7 wrote:: I think this is the New Orleans Verse but the clues in the Image indicate City Park. I do not think Storyland is the casques location. A key line is namesakes meeting. Storyland was likely locked up at night Their are three areas in City Park that are named after somebody Marconie Meadow is one I do not remeber the others off the top of my head. One of these areas is likely the casque's location. I think the Grandfather Clock could also be a clue we are missing. Except the verse says  AT the place where jewels abound and the namesakes meet NEAR this site. City Park is not AT the place where jewels abound it is NEAR it. No matter how you try to stretch it Jewels dont abound in a sundial (unless its jewel encrusted) Perhaps somewhere between the two?

hxxp://www.blogcatalog.com/blogs/pic-jo ... 20orleans/ Lots of nice Storyland pics.

"Three" stand watch... too funny- - hxxp://pijournal.blogspot.com/2008/08/t ... -pigs.html

If this helps... please add my name to the credits... Chad and Kim McGarrah At the place where jewels abound  ... most would agree New Orleans Only three stand watch... 4 possibilities here.... this park has 3 statues... one statue has 2 children and 1 bust = 3... twice across different streets bordering the square park are buildings with 3 figures adorning the building. Here is a sovereign people    Who build palaces to shelter  Their heads for a night!  ..... definately a tourist town... a night ...MartiGras? from Wiki.... it is posted as a Quote from Domingo Sarmiento referring to the St. Charles Exchange hotel in New Orleans .... only a couple of blocks from the park and on the same street... the original architect also built  the town hall across the street from the park which has one of the sets of 3 figures... peace justice and liberty I believe... Gnomes admire (are jealous?)  Fays delight  The namesakes meeting  Near this site. now my favorite part.... the Fay's Namesake................ Lafayette Park ...  La Fay ette .... the little Fay???? also... A plaque in the park is actually marked with the lattitude and longitude... My wife also pointed out that the girl in one of the statues... her dress is drapped looking much like the right narcisus flower... hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... 9612893442 and the boy in the same statue is the exact same posture as the small figure of the boy on the clock. hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... 5097802994 hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... 4670215010 I may be able to help more but am not from there... was last there in 2007 Good Hunting, Chad

Cormac wrote:: Fays delight  The namesakes meeting  Near this site. now my favorite part.... the Fay's Namesake................ Lafayette Park ...   La Fay ette .... the little Fay???? Cormac wrote:: and the boy in the same statue is the exact same posture as the small figure of the boy on the clock. hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... 5097802994 Cormac wrote:: A plaque in the park is actually marked with the lattitude and longitude... Wow...I really like that.... and... Wow.. I really like this!!! do you happen to remember what exactly the lat/lon plaque stated? This all sounds very promising indeed.  Where have you been all of this time?

This park is RIGHT next to the St Charles Hotel.  It appears 4 statues placed in each of the corners but I am wondering if only 3 of them are "standing" people...or...only 3 of them are military (standing watch). I would have definitely checked this park out had I known about it while in N.O.  It looks a little small and completely surrounded by buildings but this sounds really good

Not sure when it happened but it looks like 1/2 of L Sq is gone, replaced w/ a building.  When looking at this Sq on Google Maps, it looks like the building to the north of the Sq was built over half of the park.  I looked the Sq up on Mapquest and the circular area w/ a crosslike structure in the top center part of the park on google maps used to be the center of the park.   :-\ like this : hxxp://www.multimap.com/maps/?zoom=13&c ... d%20States I could have saved face and deleted this entire post but I will leave it so that everyone can laugh...looks like what I thought was a building built over 1/2 the park is just a wierd angle of a tall building adjacent to the square.  I'm a dodo.. ...or is it?  dang, I give up, I am toooo tired to figure this out. I will leave it up to you guys.  Is the whole Sq still there or is 1/2 of it built over w/ buildings?

The latitude of Lafayette Square is 29.948N. The longitude is -90.07W.

that's cute about the little fay cormac i found this photo of the child on the statue: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/8261799@N04/2306140570/ trying to connect the verse with lafayette park i found st. charles avenue is called "The Jewel of America's Grand Avenues: hxxp://www.planning.org/greatplaces/str ... avenue.htm

is it possible there was/is a jewelry store around the perimeter of the park somewhere?

maltedfalcon wrote:: is it possible there was/is a jewelry store around the perimeter of the park somewhere? Or the jewels reference could just be a city marker.  If you've ever been to Mardi Gras in New Orleans, you can't walk down any street without seeing an abundance of jewels (beads).

I thought this was interesting. No particular significance, just interesting. Lafayette Name Meaning and History: Southern French: diminutive of Lafaye , a topographic name for someone living near a beech tree or beech wood, from Old French fage, variant of fou ‘beech’ (Latin fagus).

i've tried to count the roads from Preservation Hall to Lafayette Park, i don't come up quite to "15" (for 15 rows downs to the ground), but i'm sure there's some little road or two that i missed, seems pretty close. when i look at the park on google, the henry clay statue is in the middle (of the other two statues) and in the image (in the book) the jewel is in the upper middle of the square. henry clay's hand is raised, like the child in the image? still, why use the flowers  and the puffed sleeves from storyland?

Unknown: still, why use the flowers  and the puffed sleeves from storyland? Who says he did?  Just because they're similiar doesn't mean they were used specifically. The narcissus is Decembers flower, December's birthstone is Turquoise (the gem) and the clock says 12:00--for the 12th month. Any narcissus is going to look pretty much like that. And any long, ruffled sleeve will also look like that. Why would anyone want to depict just a sleeve from Storyland, when there are so many other things that make more sense?

shecrab wrote:: Who says he did?  Just because they're similiar doesn't mean they were used specifically. shecrab wrote:: The narcissus is Decembers flower, December's birthstone is Turquoise (the gem) and the clock says 12:00--for the 12th month. Any narcissus is going to look pretty much like that. shecrab wrote:: And any long, ruffled sleeve will also look like that. Why would anyone want to depict just a sleeve from Storyland, when there are so many other things that make more sense? agreed agreed and agreed

The problem with Jackson Square is that it would be hard to get into in the midddle of the night and Armstrong Park does not look like it matches or could have matched the verse. I think jewels abound does not mean alot of jewels near the place of the casque but is refering to the jewel you get for finding the casque. Namesakes meeting is a crucial clue. The correct location has or had a statue bust etc of whoever the park or area of the park is named after. I think the mask is the namesakes meeting near the site. I think the ferrytale theam of the image is trying to protray storyland to get you to the right park. As with Jackson Square this area was likely locked up at night and likely frequented by police. Their are three areas of City Park that should be investigated closely Marconie Meadow and Scout Island are two I do not rember the third one off the top of my head.

the statue in lafayette is pretty convincing though. it definitely warrants more investigation.

I agree completely--and I think this statue is the best interp of the P we've had in forever. I think we may have found the casque's resting place--and I think it was suggested before, but for some reason discarded. This park is so small you could dig it up completely with a shovel and about 10 minute of time. It's perfect---let's get someone with a shovel over there!

I'm not sure if anyone has mentioned this. I looked, so please don't bash me if they have. But it says in the verse that "Only three stand watch". If I'm not mistaken, I believe that their are only three statues in Lafayette square. All three are of people. I know that one is Henry Clay, one is Ben Franklin, and one is John McDonough. Is one of these this statue you guys are talking about? hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lafayette_ ... ew_Orleans

Guys, this park (Lafayette Square) matches the verse very well so far. I'm extremely sure that we've found the location. Now it needs to be narrowed down and dug up. Who lives in this area or close to it? I'm in Gainesville, FL and I doubt my wife will let me go treasure hunting in New Orleans anytime soon... BTW, I now know that the John McDonough statue is the one you guys are talking about

Here's some information about Lafayette Square: There is a hotel on the square, called (duh) the Lafayette Hotel. Go to this website and check out the 360-deg. views--and look at the windows. There is the top of our clock (in P. 7) Here is a sovereign people  Who build palaces to shelter  Their heads for a night! this phrase was talking about a particular hotel--the Hotel St. Charles, which no longer exists. But why couldn't it just sort of generically be talking about any hotel? The sense of the verse fits no matter what hotel you're talking about! hxxp://www.neworleansfinehotels.com/thelafayettehotel/ipix/index.html Here is the Lafayette Square conservancy ("preservation!") plan for the square. You can see some of it in pictures in this document. hxxp://www.lafayette-square.org/uploads/MasterplanAdoptedbyConservancy207.pdf AND...it has a nice map of the park as it existed THEN--I don't know what work or how much has already been done. If we can figure out what the "15 rows down to the ground might be," I do believe we've found our park. Maybe it refers to ROW HOUSES...which it apparently borders (not sure of this, though). The rest of the verse fits well: the hotel, the "only three stand watch" which could easily refer to the three statues in the park, and the "sound of friends fills the afternoon hours"--the park is used for free concerts and meetings all the time.  It is a centrally located "meeting place" that is well-used and well-known. Here's a quote from the history of the square: Lafayette Square, the second oldest park in the City, was founded in 1788 and was originally called “place publique.” It is across the street from Gallier Hall, which is a building that serves as a reception hall, theatre and is also an official viewing stand for Mardi Gras floats! Look at the pic of Gallier on the website: the frieze above the columns depicts THREE STANDING WATCH. This is definitely worth more exploration--especially on foot. I am not really convinced this is the correct verse for the location--I am wondering if the right V. should be V. 7--but I'm definitely open to whatever. If the "rows" can be discovered, then I'm totally convinced.

shecrab wrote:: Look at the pic of Gallier on the website: the frieze above the columns depicts THREE STANDING WATCH. Thats possible but the central figure is lady truth and she is blindfolded, that makes it kind of hard to describe her as standing watch. Also there are three statues in the park, but that would total five figures as one statue has 3 people... Still the boy's pose is right on.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Thats possible but the central figure is lady truth and she is blindfolded, that makes it kind of hard to describe her as standing watch. Also there are three statues in the park, but that would total five figures as one statue has 3 people... Still the boy's pose is right on. True, but the statues are dedicated to the three men. And, looking at each statue individually, it does look like they are keeping watch. Also the statues are in a perfect row across the square, with two on the end and one in the middle. Verse 2 does say "From end to end". That's my $.02

where's lafitte?  doesn't she live there?

shecrab wrote:: Here is a sovereign people  Who build palaces to shelter  Their heads for a night! [/color] this phrase was talking about a particular hotel--the Hotel St. Charles, which no longer exists. But why couldn't it just sort of generically be talking about any hotel? The sense of the verse fits no matter what hotel you're talking about! shecrab wrote:: I am not really convinced this is the correct verse for the location--I am wondering if the right V. should be V. 7--but I'm definitely open to whatever. Oh but it does...do a google map search of Lafayette Park, go to 'Street View' on St Charles Ave in front of the park and go less than 1 block North on St Charles Ave.  The adjacent hotel is the Parc St. Charles Hotel. It was THIS V that got us to this location. My take {and they are usually wrong } is that the '15 rows down to the ground'  may be describing a nearby building whose brickwork, windows, etc..could be described as "rows".  I also think, and this may make it harder for us because of the passage of time, that the "center of 21" is referring to trees.  An overhead of the park shows areas with clumps of trees.  I think that there is one place to stand where there would be {or would have been} 21 trees surrounding you.  The 3 standing watch are the statues...and the boy on the JM statue is as near to a perfect match as we will ever find.  If this isn't our casque's resting place, then it may be the starting point of the trek to the correct location but in my opinion, this park IS part of this puzzle.

shecrab wrote:: If we can figure out what the "15 rows down to the ground might be," I do believe we've found our park. Maybe it refers to ROW HOUSES...which it apparently borders (not sure of this, though). You may be onto something here.  I found this tidbit of info regarding an area of the Lafayette Square Historic District.  It is not right at our park but it is in the same historic district so it might apply to the entire area... "The earliest remaining houses in the district are located at 535-545 Julia Street, which were constructed in 1832 by John Green. As the development of the neighborhood intensified, speculative developers constructed rows of townhouses for sale. The most noted surviving example of this practice is Julia Row, the thirteen residences that form the even numbered side of the 600 block of Julia." hxxp://www.cityofno.com/pg-99-54-lafayette-square.aspx

I read that too--which is what got me thinking about ROW houses! Julia Row does border the park. And I'm willing to use this V for the location---I just wondered if the other one had been exhausted. I like the idea of the jewels, I like the idea of the namesakes, and the rest--the only thing that bugs me is that ROW thing. Isn't the Parc St. Charles a different St. Charles hotel than Sarmiento's? If not, then whoo hoo !! It's still valid! No problem there, then! I was under the impression that the one Sarmiento was referring to was being used as something other than a hotel now. The BUILDING is still there--but the hotel isnt'. Maybe I'm wrong about that. As for the three on the frieze--I didn't notice the blindfold--(that's an "oopsie!") No matter---there are still three statues. And even if you interpret that verse as "three individuals" it may not be---it may only mean THREE STATUES. It doesn't say three of WHAT are standing watch---only that 3 are . I like this locale. Better than any we've seen so far. It solves several problems we've had with other places--the figure on the clock, the "preservation" the shape of the arch, the jazz-man mask--(this park is home to an annual Jazz Festival!) and the meeting place and the namesakes, the Sarmiento quote--AND the lat/long are EXACT. I love that! The 15 rows--I don't know about this one--maybe the wooden 'bollards' around the park? They've been replaced with concrete ones since 1981--but the layout has not changed!  The bollards are those wooden/concrete vertical posts spaced around the walkways. A bollard is normally found on a dock--to tie a boat to. I'm trying to figure out how you could see a bollard as a "row"--it doesn't fit in a way I can see, but who knows? I do think the rows are horiztontal--if they are bricks or stones. If they're the row houses--then "down to the ground" may only mean there are 15 row houses that lead TO the GROUND where the casque is buried. It's a stretch--but maybe it's poetic license?

Good thinking guys! Here is the full V2 for reference: At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. I consider the bits in red simply clues to New Orleans, and therefore uninteresting for narrowing it down once we agree on the city. If you're right about Lafayette Square, the parts in blue can be clues to that specific park. If the "three" are the statues, then what are they in the middle of? Are there 21 of them? There need to be, otherwise either the verse is lying to us or this isn't the right park. Also, who or what are the "namesakes"?

forest_blight wrote:: [b] At the place where jewels abound Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire I consider the bits in red simply clues to New Orleans, and therefore uninteresting for narrowing it down once we agree on the city. FB, I am curious, and right now I dont have them in front of me so I cant be sure one way or another, In the Chicago and Clevland verses, are there lines you can point to that were just "City Clues" and not related to actually finding the casque location specifically? If yes then I agree with you, thats probably what they are... If no, then I disagree, why would this verse be different... (sorry at work now and cant check the other verses...)

found these phots on a blog, not sure how old they are, but in the newer, recent photos ive looked at i dont see this fence. the fence has the emblem on every 18-16 posts, i see light posts maybe the fence is the 15 rows down and their are 21 light posts. the bad thing is if the fence is gone and light posts, would be tough to find, with out a blueprint or something of park in 1980.she calls it lafayette-square, ive seen the park called that recently too. hxxp://dunestopines.blogspot.com/2008/0 ... quare.html

Unknown: Also, who or what are the "namesakes The namesakes, IMHO, are the park itself: La FAYette (the little fay) and the Mardi Gras participants--who dress like everything from fairies to gnomes and everything in between. Remember, the square and its surrounding streets are a prominent reviewing area for the parade participants. It is no matter that Lafayette actually means something about birch trees...many people would confuse Fay (as in Fae, or Faerie) with La Fayette--and assume it meant "little fairy" even though it really doesn't mean that. Anyway, it says the namesakes meet "near" the site, not ON it. So that could pretty much mean anything. CW0909 : that blog I believe is in error---that does not look like LaFayette square, it looks like Jackson Square. The iron fence around Lafayette Square was removed in the early 19th century!  I think the blogger is wrong. You can see early postcards of the square on the Lafayette Conservancy web site and there is no fence. I think the "21" may be the bollards. It says in the LSC plan that there are "nearly 30" of them. It would be something one could be "in the middle of".

maltedfalcon wrote:: FB, I am curious, and right now I dont have them in front of me so I cant be sure one way or another, In the Chicago and Clevland verses, are there lines you can point to that were just "City Clues" and not related to actually finding the casque location specifically? If yes then I agree with you, thats probably what they are... If no, then I disagree, why would this verse be different... (sorry at work now and cant check the other verses...) No to both - good point. However, the same devices need not be used in all the verses. Note that SELOY is the only (we think!) acrostic clue.

Does anyone know the name of the road that boarders the park on it's south side? Google earth isn't naming it for me. If it is named after anyone, then my gut instinct would be to go with the idea that where namesakes meet is an intersection of roads.

forest_blight wrote:: Note that SELOY is the only (we think!) acrostic clue. Also note that besides the cryptic "First chapter" statement, there are no other confirming lines in Verse 9 for Saint Augustine. So in that particular one, we NEED the acrostic SELOY clue. Without that we have no real ties between that verse and the painting/location (that we know of). We already have ties between verse 2 and P7 without needing an acrostic clue. Maybe BP realized that when he was making the P6 puzzle...

Unknown: Does anyone know the name of the road that boarders the park on it's south side? South Maestri Place, probably named after this man: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Maestri .

Sarmiento's original St. Charles Exchange Hotel was located just up St. Charles Ave between Common and Gravier, about 3 blocks from Lafayette Square. The pink X marks the Hotel. ]

i understand the original hotel was down the street, but if this parc st charles hotel was here in '82 it would've been perfect for bp.

i found a good view of Gallier Hall from behind the kids,looks like the hall may have 15 steps i think shecrab mention the parade, and the jewels that get thrown onto the steps it looks like their may, have been more posts, around the statue area at one time i counted the steps, came up with 15,one time and 16 2xs. need a better pic of steps if the steps are 15, and their, were more posts at one time,id say the first four lines, and the boy on the clock fit, and make this the casuqe site At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... 0%26sa%3DN

Go to the official website for Gallier Hall---and check out the PHOTO GALLERY----there is a shot of the interior---we may have found our checkerboard pattern like the background on P. 7!!! I think you can count steps here, too. BTW: I like the idea of the streets being the "namesakes!" They certainly ARE! and they DO meet at the intersections around the park! That fits seamlessly.

Here's a closeup shot of the front of Gallier Hall---it certainly DOES look like there may be 15 steps--or rows. I think this is particularly important that these steps would be called "rows" because when the reviewing stands for the Mardi Gras parades are put here they utilize these as seating rows! Click on the image for a better view.

here is a better shot of hall i count 15 steps, in the center and 16 on the ends hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... 0%26sa%3DN shecrab i think your right about the mis labeling of blog i like the street idea too, good idea

Shecrab, I really like your idea about the checkered pattern on the floor in Gallier Hall. Looks like a good confirmer to me. You know, I'm not saying that "jewels abound" doesn't relate to Mardi Gras, but there are some beautiful crystal chandeliers in Gallier Hall... Any idea what that horse head in the lower right side of the pic could represent? If only P6 and V9 would behave this way...

Unknown: Any idea what that horse head in the lower right side of the pic could represent? Turned upside down it's a half-good representation of the State of Louisiana. I'll do some more research on this one though. I did find this though: Lafayette Park has been used as a race track, a graveyard, a zoo, a slave market, an encampment for soldiers during the War of 1812, and many political protests and celebrations. The surrounding neighborhood became the city's most fashionable 18th century residential area - home to a number of Washington personalities including Lincoln's Secretary of State William Henry Seward and South Carolina Senator John C. Calhoun. Andrew Jackson Downing landscaped Lafayette Square in 1851 in the picturesque style. Today's plan with its five large statues dates from the 1930's. In the center stands Clark Mills' equestrian statue of President Andrew Jackson, erected in 1853; in the four corners are statues of Revolutionary War heroes: France's General Marquis Gilbert de Lafayette and Major General Comte Jean de Rochambeau; Poland's General Thaddeus Kosciuszko; Prussia's Major General Baron Frederich Wilhelm von Steuben. (INFO TAKEN FROM: www.nps.gov/nr/travel/wash/dc30.htm ) But they aren't talking about OUR Lafayette Square! They're talking about the one in WASHINGTON DC. How odd is that? Talk about synchronicity!

Not to be taken too seriously... but... When I was there I was looking for anything with 15 rows The statue with the boy and girl.... there are 15 rows of pavers in the circle around the base of the statue... 14 large pavers then right up next to the wall of the garden bed at the base of the statue...the 15th row is a smaller paver... I seriously doubt this is the 15 we're looking for though...

just curious, why not?

What do you mean by "rows" of pavers, and why wouldn't these be it?

cw0909 wrote:: here is a better shot of hall i count 15 steps, in the center and 16 on the ends hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... 0%26sa%3DN that just doesnt make sense...a different number of steps? Usining the 'full resolution' option from you link...it looks to me like all 3 sets include 16 steps.  It is really hard to tell though with the steps in the shadows behind the 3 gates. This pic is a little lighter in the shadowed area and it still looks there are 16 steps.  It also even looks like there may be another set of steps before reaching the doorway. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/chibeba/26 ... 4/sizes/l/

Yeah, it looks to me like there's more like 21 or 22 steps total.

Cormac wrote:: The statue with the boy and girl.... there are 15 rows of pavers in the circle around the base of the statue... 14 large pavers then right up next to the wall of the garden bed at the base of the statue...the 15th row is a smaller paver... Can anyone find a clear pic showing this?  Remember, our clock in P9 not only shows the boy, it also shows it's hands on 12 and {second hand} 3.  12 + 3 = 15.  I am convinced this is our boy.

I'm not seeing any pavers---in rows. But check out the satellite pic of Lafayette Square and Gallier Hal where I marked the structure---those have to be the reviewing stands set up for Mardi Gras. I wonder if BP knew they come down after the parade, or just assumed they were up all the time? He has to mean those are the 15 rows down to the ground. I can't think of anything else it might be! I've been racking my brain to think of some word-play on the word ROWS this might mean--rose the flower, rose as in something that lifted up, rows as in fights, rows as in row houses, even the surname Row, Roze, Rose, or Reaux. Nothing has jumped out at me yet.

Re: verse 2 « Reply #363 on: Today at 01:32:23 pm » that just doesnt make sense...a different number of steps? Usining the 'full resolution' option from you link...it looks to me like all 3 sets include 16 steps.  It is really hard to tell though with the steps in the shadows behind the 3 gates. yep your right, my bifocals do me in sometimes, always good to have better eyes not to sure about bp, thinking the stands were up all the time, i wouldnt think that. ive been to Mardi Gras several times, and the stands are put up in several places, maybe one of the other buildings has 15 something to the ground, we would consider rows the pavers seem like a good idea, excepet they seem to be in a circlular pattern will try to find the pic with the statue of kids, that show some of the pavers. i just cant belive bp would put it in the ground of the statue though. does anyone have someone there to look see,or knew park before 1990, i think i read someplace some work had been done then too

found the pics maybe the pavers your talking about are the ones in this link in the slideshow tab hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... 9612893442 sorry none of these seem to get you there unless you cliick there try this hopefully the bricks i think cormac is talking about hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... 0684204242 i think same area as above, ie not sure where, maybe there are 15 rows of the darker brick,  darker brick line like this  l    not like this  -  and 21 red bricks in between the darker line of brick hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... 4787156962 yea links works statue kids hxxp://picasaweb.google.com/LafayetteSq ... 9612893442

Having trouble uploading a picture... any advice?

you dont really get to upload pictures you have to have them hosted somewhere else then imbed the link in the text of your message. Like if you look up a few messages you will see the image shecrab posted. if you right click it and look at its properties, you will see it is hosted at image shack... h t t p:/ /img254.imageshack.us/img254/3096/lafayettesquarelz1.th.jpg

I noticed in those pictures that President Bush was digging in the park during an Earth Day celebration. You don't think he has a copy of The Secret, do you?

cobock1 wrote:: I noticed in those pictures that President Bush was digging in the park during an Earth Day celebration. You don't think he has a copy of The Secret, do you? Why do you think the other 2 men are known as Secret Service?   ::) While watching the slide show, I noticed a couple of things that could be considered our 'rows'...both can be seen in many of the pix where they are installing the creepy eyeball bench thingy.  One is windows, as in rows of windows.  The ones I am referring to are the tall, verticle windows on a nearby building that can be seen in the above mentioned Bush Photo Op.  Are there 15 of these windows?  If so, they would be a row of 15 windows that stretch down to the ground.  The other idea I had was on other pix, there were large columns on a nearby building.  These columns could be considered verticle 'rows' that go down to the ground. Just some more ideas to mull over. There is also a nearby building which appears to be white marble that has a very large frieze on it's side depicting 3 men.  This can be seen in the Bush meet-n-greet pic.  I don't think these are our 3 that stand watch {pretty convinced on the 3 park statues} but was wondering if any of the other buildings have similar friezes containing a face like P7's mask.

There is also a nice picture of a huge crowd in the park with the JM statue in the lower lefthand corner.  If that boy isn't our clock boy I will eat my hat. You know, all those people with rakes and shovels going through OUR park is sure making me nervous

Looking at Shecrab's satelite image... The statue with the circles around it look much like the clock and it's circles... The outer gray circle is what I was refering to when I mentioned the pavers. 15 rows of pavers from the outer edge of the grey circle to the wall of the flower bed.

Re: verse 2 « Reply #373 on: Today at 01:14:50 am » You know, all those people with rakes and shovels going through OUR park is sure making me nervous me too and if they found it, im sure they think it was something katrinia dropped there

hxxp://www.travelphotobase.com/s/LANBL.HTM Try this link, Fox...you can see very clearly every single building that surrounds the park and that's where those figures are. I liked the Federal building windows also--but...the building only has 14 floors, not 15. Ironically--this park (according to the conservancy publication) was restored to its 1984 state! I believe this may be the only park that was restored to FORMER glory--including re-planting all the trees that Katrina destroyed in the SAME PLACES. So if the trees are "21" by some calculation, then they will not have moved!  That is fantastic, as far as I'm concerned!  The only real "change" they made was to add a doggy drinking fountain, and change out the wooden bollards for concrete ones. They didn't move anything! I was talking to my son last night and he had some suggestion also: (1) The horse's head in the lower right corner on the "mound" of the checkerboard wall could be referring to one of those horse-head hitching posts that are all over the city. I think you can actually see some of those on one end of the park. Or it might have something to do with chess--the background IS a checkered pattern, like on a board, and that horsehead looks a bit like a Knight. We might be able to interpret "Knight" in some way that works in this park--either literally as a Knight, or as its movement : in the shape of an L --which could stand for L afayette! (2) The mask in the P.--he thought maybe that that mask actually was referring to the BUST of McDonough--since a bust is actually just a head. I think I might agree there--it's another confirmation that this is the place. Things just seem to be falling into place nicely here.

shecrab wrote:: hxxp://www.travelphotobase.com/s/LANBL.HTM Try this link, Fox...you can see very clearly every single building that surrounds the park and that's where those figures are. I liked the Federal building windows also--but...the building only has 14 floors, not 15. I didn't mean 15 floors {horizontally}, I was referring to verticle windows along one wall of the building.  Looking at the F Edward Herbert Federal Bldg in your link makes me like the idea even more...except we don't see the whole building to count 15 rows.  Look at the picture though and I would say that those long verticle windows sure look like rows stretching down to the ground. I really like this park!  I only wish you guys would have come up with these ideas when I was in N.O. because this is such a small park and I truely believe we would have casque #3 finally unearthed.

I didn't have any luck counting the windows on buildings surrounding the park when I was there. Also looked for brick/stone paterns on the walls. My time there was short so I could have missed something.

oh wow, i hadn't realized you'd been there cormac!  did you do any poking?  when you were there did you feel it was there, that you had the right place?

The only thing keeping me from driving there tomorrow is my ever level headed wife... Only 450 miles away...

Yep...was there. Had just found a copy of the book, and had already planned the trip to NewO before hearing about the book. Had a great time there... but could only talk my wife into one afternoon of searching... She was the one who pointed out that the girl's dress looked like the narcissus on the right... that it had no stamen like the one on the left and almost appeared to have a neckline like the dress... have now posted a couple pictures here... hxxp://thesecretatreasurehunt.shutterfly.com/neworleans

Aha!!! Finally a picture of those pavers!! Thanks, Cormac! Yet--no matter how I count them I come up with 14 not 15. The Federal Appeals courthouse does have 15 rows down to the ground---on its facade. There is no "Ground" however under these rows, so there would be no place to dig--IF they were indeed telling us to do so. They may instead be telling us to dig IN the park, right across from this structure....? hxxp://www.travelphotobase.com/f/LANBL/LANDL128.HTM

count the pavers then add the curb. or count the grey curb in the foreground.... still that leads to a flower bed and I thought flowerbeds were out of bounds...

14 rows of square pavers then (you can see in the picture with the flowers) the 15th row is a smaller rectangular paver... So the question for me... I believe you are right about not in a flowerbed... but did it have flowers in 82? I have a feeling it did...

We can't even be sure it had the pavers, let alone the flowers. But probably it did.

Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end To me, this sounds like the specific directions to the dig site.  We just seem to be having troubles finding it.  Instead of trying to find 'something' that has 15 rows & 'something' of 21, I started looking for 'something' containing both the 15 & 21.  This is what I found. hxxp://flickr.com/photos/samuelnbarnett/100968502/ it can also be seen here during the cleanup after Katrina so it did survive the storm. Unfortunately, in each picture, it doesn't look like there are 15 rows to the ground.  I measured the brick wall of my house and 15 rows of my bricks were 3 1/2 feet high or slightly higher than waist high, which the above picture appears to be...but it only looks like 8 or so rows.  21 bricks across {lengthwise..at my house} measured 14 feet..which this wall does not appear to be...but, notice the top row of bricks are not set lengthwise so there could easily be 21 of them.  A wall like this would be a perfect location marker...and...would supply a little secrecy while burying or digging up a casque.  Are there any more of these since this one is pretty darn close?

I like this...and it just reinforces my idea that Lafayette is the place. Consider this though.... There are 15 ROWS.... brick, mortar, brick, mortar, brick, mortar ...etc.  DOWN TO THE GROUND. Not 15 rows of BRICKS, but 15 ROWS. Count from the top row of mortar, under the horizontal bricks .

Nice... I like how that works.  I just think that a wall like this is a perfect marker.  The only way to misinterpret this location is to dig on the opposite side of the wall.  There are no steps/paces that vary...no being off by an inch when digging in the center of 21 trees...nothing!  Just a wall.  Trees and plants come and go..be it by dying or hurricane...but a brick wall is pretty darn solid.  Only serious relandscaping of a park will destroy this.

I like this a lot, but your rows doesnt add up... but it does depend on how high the soil came up the wall in 1981 the wall is sitting on a cement curb, its possible there was soil covering the curb in 1981 but that would mean that at least a foot of ground has been removed and the casque might have been uncovered.... here is an enhanced version of the wall, so you can clarify your counting...

BRILLIANT! Do we have anyone there digging yet?

here is another therory to pick apart, thanks in advance have been thinking about some of the lines from v-2 Fifteen rows down to the ground,.. ground is park 15 rows are streets from LA park, i think bp did not use the steets that dead end into st. charles, because they are not a thoroughfare.... ie..the conditions necessary for passing through  =  rows i know questionable the, better after thought........ something else i thought of so if we take p-7 as... YOU ARE... in N.O., and start at preservation hall and count all the blocks from there to  royal to park, it is 15 rows, i like this better as, the jewels line in poem,  and the mask, longs and lat ect get you to N.O., and the clock tells you were you are, and where you are going royal becomes st charles, and is one of the parade routes, with plenty of jewels preservation hall would be a count of one, royal 2 ect i know still questionable and that left turn that was mentioned In the middle of twenty-one From end to end some walkways have set blocks like your sidewalk, i measured mine i have 7, 5 foot segments,from my driveway to the next driveway which covers my front yard, the ones at my city park were 4 feet,from fountian to the sidewalk entrance,im thinking the segment spaces depends on how much ground is in between 2 objects for the walkway. so maybe their are 10 segments between each statue. ie..from boy to clay 10, from clay to ben 10 more, clay would equal 11, from end to end Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. not sure about gnomes,.... maybe some on a building at site, as they are in many places in N.O. Fays delight...the park The namesakes meeting.....their is a Plaque on the clay statue, stating where he use to be. if you are reading the Plaque, you are facing north, turn south and you are facing the clock tower Plaque link hxxp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image ... eStone.jpg more photos of park hxxp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Categ ... ew_Orleans the wall hxxp://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image ... UpBack.jpg

I think the theory that rows = streets is kind of a stretch. It would make more sense for them to be simply rows of something, on some vertical surface (hence, down to the ground). Remember how literal V4 was, using similar wording: Beneath the ninth row from the top / Of the wall including small bricks .

cw0909 wrote:: here is another therory to pick apart, thanks in advance cw0909 wrote:: some walkways have set blocks like your sidewalk, i measured mine i have 7, 5 foot segments,from my driveway to the next driveway which covers my front yard, the ones at my city park were 4 feet,from fountian to the sidewalk entrance,im thinking the segment spaces depends on how much ground cw0909 wrote:: not sure about gnomes,.... maybe some on a building at site, as they are in many places in N.O. Fays delight...the park The namesakes meeting.....their is a Plaque on the clay statue, stating where he use to be. You asked for it, sorry in advance. I don't understand your segmentation hypothesis. How would it depend on the distance between the statues? There are about 100yds between the statues. How many segments would you break this distance into? Based on what? Where would you dig? There is nothing on the ground that I saw to substantiate anything along these lines. There are no gnomes in the surrounding building architecture. If you're not using "Gnomes Admire, Fays delight" to gives a clue to what namesakes you are talking about, then this is pretty weak. You have no match for Gnome, and you're throwing out the word "delight." You have one name for the namesake's meeting - why even use Clay? I don't think throwing out the 2 previous lines before namesake's meaning makes any sense. Without context, it could refer to literally any thing or things that have been named. If you think there are just a couple of things named after famous people in New Orleans....well, then you've never been to New Orleans. Especially in and around parks, there are more possibilities than I consider practical to enumerate.

I have found something I have not seen anyone post as a possible match for the first line of the verse. In an appendix of the book "The Mystick Krewe Of Comus", the author lists many decades of Mardi Gras Krewe themes and their respective float titles. In 1906, The Krewe of Rex's theme was Utopia. Their 17th float was titled "Where Jewels Abound." Here is a picture of the page: I think this is kind of a long shot, but it's possible that there is a landmark in New Orleans that has a picture of this float displayed, or a painting/mural, that shows the title of the float. I have been unable to locate anything like this in the obvious parks. If anyone has an idea about this, please let me know.

I looked, but Google books has nothing better to offer (yet) than this very book. Have we really ruled out Story Land? Some points in its favor: 1. It has giant narcissus flowers that look just like the ones on the clock. 2. Three little pigs are there, and they surround an ideal-looking burial site (three stand watch / namesakes meeting). 3. It's in City Park, a great setting for this sort of thing. I don't know how many fairy tales are depicted at Story Land, or the layout of the park, but if it's arranged along a trail, and there happen to be 21 of them, well... need I say more? NOLA locals??

Consider this though.... There are 15 ROWS....brick, mortar, brick, mortar, brick, mortar...etc.  DOWN TO THE GROUND. Not 15 rows of BRICKS, but 15 ROWS. Count from the top row of mortar, under the horizontal bricks. Could be about 21 from side to side counting this way.... (the bottom bricks where you would dig.... not the top ones)

Cormac wrote:: Consider this though.... There are 15 ROWS....brick, mortar, brick, mortar, brick, mortar...etc.  DOWN TO THE GROUND. Not 15 rows of BRICKS, but 15 ROWS. Count from the top row of mortar, under the horizontal bricks. I believe that if BP wanted us to dig at the base of something with 8 rows of brick (very possible) he would have just said "8 rows down to the ground." Besides that, as I have already said, there are not even close to 21 bricks across the top.

forest_blight wrote:: I looked, but Google books has nothing better to offer (yet) than this very book. Have we really ruled out Story Land? Some points in its favor: 1. It has giant narcissus flowers that look just like the ones on the clock. 2. Three little pigs are there, and they surround an ideal-looking burial site (three stand watch / namesakes meeting). 3. It's in City Park, a great setting for this sort of thing. I don't know how many fairy tales are depicted at Story Land, or the layout of the park, but if it's arranged along a trail, and there happen to be 21 of them, well... need I say more? NOLA locals?? Maybe we'll run into some display at one of the possible sites. As you can see, all that the book tells us is that it was a Rex float in 1906. Storyland looks great from the pics, I know. Besides the pigs and flowers, there is a grandfather clock, and several gnomes. The gnomes admire line has been driving me up the wall, I would love to get a good match for that. Unfortunately it's a gated theme park where they charge admission. At some point I found evidence confirming that it has been this way since it opened. There is no way you'd get away with bringing a shovel in there (without permission, at least.) So, you tell me... I've been inside before, but not since reading The Secret. (Every time we go down there, it's closed for some reason or another.) If we could find a decent match for the whole verse, I'd try to convince them to let us dig, but I don't have very high hopes about the response.

Forrest wrote:: I believe that if BP wanted us to dig at the base of something with 8 rows of brick (very possible) he would have just said "8 rows down to the ground." Besides that, as I have already said, there are not even close to 21 bricks across the top. [/quote] I was refering to counting the bricks and mortar on the bottom row to get the 21 in the same manner as we are suggesting to count the 15 rows (brick and mortar) I specifically said NOT the top.

i haven't ruled out City Park! i've been wondering if the boy in the picture could be a "passing fancy" from p. 108.  the baseball hat, argoyle socks, and the knickers could all be passing fancies (trends)  ;D passing fancies are French/German/English and could be anywhere. they are also cultural, which makes me think of sculptures and museums Forrest, is it possible to dig behind the sarah lavinia hyams sculpture?  it was put there in 1921.....................19....... 21 ...........that could be our "21" ......even tho' it was built in 1914, it was opened in 1921..: hxxp://www.neworleanspast.com/art/id14.html it says to the "little children"...........you know,  "little people" i'm so glad we have a hunter there in new orleans! here's another picture, says 1914, but maybe somewhere there is a plaque that says opened in 1921:  (22nd row of pictures) hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... l%26sa%3DN btw, there is the same exact sculpture/fountain at audubon park the fish tail on the fountain kind of reminds me of the flowers in the image, and the shape of the fountain bowl is sort of like the shape of the clock in the image

slappybuns wrote:: i haven't ruled out City Park! slappybuns wrote:: i've been wondering if the boy in the picture could be a "passing fancy" from p. 108.  the baseball hat, argoyle socks, and the knickers could all be passing fancies (trends)  ;D passing fancies are French/German/English and could be anywhere. slappybuns wrote:: Forrest, is it possible to dig behind the sarah lavinia hyams sculpture?  it was put there in 1921.....................19....... 21 ...........that could be our "21" ......even tho' it was built in 1914, it was opened in 1921..: hxxp://www.neworleanspast.com/art/id14.html slappybuns wrote:: i'm so glad we have a hunter there in new orleans! I'm glad someone hasn't. p. 108 of what? Be happy to look into that. It's possible to dig behind the one in Audubon Park, but harder for the one in City Park. The reason we have checked these out is because there is an inscription detailing how Hyam donated her jewels to have both fountains built. The one in City Park is locked behind a gate in the amusement park area, next to Storyland. It is not open all the time. The one in Audubon is still a possibility, but we haven't been able to come up with a great fit for anything else near it yet. Thanks, although it seems like you are in the minority.

Forrest, "passing fancies" are one of the fair people from the field guide in the book.  on page 56, they say they are "cultural" and on page 222 it says they are french/german or english. on page 109 it shows them flying around, and on page 108 it tells about them. oh wow, i just saw the "love" on that page and i'm sure i've seen that in the sydney and waldo besthoff sculptural garden, brb hxxp://www.sawyerberson.com/Press/Press ... d.park.pdf p. 12 the word "love" is on p. 109 on the shirt of the big smiley face person i really think that is the same!!!! but, um i thought that sculpture garden came after 1981.........Malted? i'm sorry, right now i don't have a scanner or printer i always liked that archer in the sculptural garden because of the hand in the book.... i also liked the path from the museum to the sculptural garden

Forrest wrote:: I'm glad someone hasn't. I haven't either Forrest.  If you remember correctly, while on an unexpected stay in the Big Easy, I DUG there.  I DUG where people believed to be a good candidate for a casque site.  Unfortunately, I came up empty handed and sadly left muddied but excited that I DUG where a casque 'may' have been.  I even thought I found our 15 & 21 nearby...but talk about a streeeeeeetch!  The difference between us is that I DUG.  Does this mean that we should toss City Park into the trash file and move on to another park?  Of course not, there is plenty of park left to explore...as is with Lafayette Square.  Before you get onto your N.O. residential horse and chastise me for trying to liken City Park to Lafayette Square....Yes, I know that City Park is MUCH larger than Lafayette Square.  Just because my wall idea may not be our 15 & 21 {it still may be...we just don't know} it doesn't mean the casque CAN NOT be buried next to Clay, McD, any one of several trees, or anywhere else in the square. The only reservation I have with City Park is that it is sooo far away from most of the visual and written confirmers.  It is nowhere near Preservation Hall, it really has no tie ins with Mardi Gras, it {to my knowledge} is not on St. Charles Ave or anywhere near the SC Hotel, etc.  It is a great park for a casque but it really does not have a lot to get us there and I know how much "initially getting there" is important to you. P7 just does not seem to have the plethora of visual confirmers as the Cleveland P did.  That is why I am soooo excited about the clock boy.  In relationship to other images used in other P's, I think this is pretty much a dead ringer to the McD statue.  That is why I really like Lafayette Square...or perhaps very nearby.  If City Park were just down St. Charles Ave, I would be ALL OVER it because it is a better park.

slappybuns wrote:: but, um i thought that sculpture garden came after 1981.........Malted? The sculptural garden came long after 81, unfortunately. Hopefully it wasn't built on top of the markers we were supposed to use!

look forrest, it's been open to the public since the beginning, hxxp://www.noma.org/sgarden/thecollection.html

not clear here but it looks like all the sculptures were moved in 1992 from their original locations.

maltedfalcon wrote:: not clear here but it looks like all the sculptures were moved in 1992 from their original locations. Correct. The Sculpture Garden wasn't located in City Park in the 80's.

forrest, i don't guess you could dig around lee circle, huh?  but looking at lee circle from google earth, it looks like 15 rows to either edge, and it's round and looks like our clock, lol............just partially kidding.

this is the way i was reading the verse, which is prob the wrong way to read it as for counting the blocks i was looking for something to count, and clay happen to be in the center of count, then i saw the sign on clay of where he use to be, just throwing counts out there ,as im runnig out of things in park besides the boy to make it work the only other thing i can think of is, maybe something has blown away or replaced for a count of 15 rows and 21 end to end i have been looking at other parks also, not getting anything though forrest thanks for feedback, and the pic of building too At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site.

slappybuns wrote:: forrest, i don't guess you could dig around lee circle, huh?  but looking at lee circle from google earth, it looks like 15 rows to either edge, and it's round and looks like our clock, lol............just partially kidding. I really don't think you could dig there, no. I have seen some other things that look really good from the air but not so much from the ground. I also think it's important to keep in mind what BP had access to when he wrote the verses.

forrest, do you have a book?  what do you think of it being a "passing fancy"? those shoes at the top of the page stand out to me.. and dang, that love sculpture is in the picture, what can it mean? and that bottle of perrier? the shape on the bottom of the word perrier looks like the shape of the flower beds in lee circle also. sorry, i only have gaps of moments to research, that's why malted always catches my slackness. also, wanted to add that on p. 108, 1st column, paragraph 5, last line: "and wearing scarlet, knee-length shorts"

cw0909 wrote:: this is the way i was reading the verse, which is prob the wrong way to read it cw0909 wrote:: as im runnig out of things in park besides the boy to make it work the only other thing i can think of is, maybe something has blown away or replaced for a count of 15 rows and 21 end to end If you're talking about how you broke the verse into sections, I read it mostly the same way,  with some qualifications: I think From End To End should be paired with Only Three Stand Watch, but lines 2-4 are probably in one group, and they are given context by line 1. I think Gnomes Admire, Fays Delight probably gives context to the next 2 lines (and so I'd group them together too.) I couldn't find anything that seemed possible to match the digging instructions, even if you assume some trees might be gone. Unfortunately, there are too many trees instead of too few. If you have any other ideas and need pictures, let me know and I'll try to remember to take a pic next time I swing by.

forrest, do you have a book?  what do you think of it being a "passing fancy"? those shoes at the top of the page stand out to me.. and dang, that love sculpture is in the picture, what can it mean? and that bottle of perrier? the shape on the bottom of the word perrier looks like the shape of the flower beds in lee circle also. sorry, i only have gaps of moments to research, that's why malted always catches my slackness. also, wanted to add that on p. 108, 1st column, paragraph 5, last line: "and wearing scarlet, knee-length shorts"

slappybuns wrote:: forrest, do you have a book?  what do you think of it being a "passing fancy"? those shoes at the top of the page stand out to me.. and dang, that love sculpture is in the picture, what can it mean? and that bottle of perrier? the shape on the bottom of the word perrier looks like the shape of the flower beds in lee circle also. sorry, i only have gaps of moments to research, that's why malted always catches my slackness. You're talking about a copy of The Secret? Yes, I have one, but not with me...I'll check it out as soon as I can. Thanks.

slappybuns wrote:: forrest, do you have a book?  what do you think of it being a "passing fancy"? those shoes at the top of the page stand out to me.. and dang, that love sculpture is in the picture, what can it mean? and that bottle of perrier? the shape on the bottom of the word perrier looks like the shape of the flower beds in lee circle also. sorry, i only have gaps of moments to research, that's why malted always catches my slackness. You're talking about a copy of The Secret? Yes, I have one, but not with me...I'll check it out as soon as I can. Thanks.

slappybuns wrote:: forrest, i don't guess you could dig around lee circle, huh?  but looking at lee circle from google earth, it looks like 15 rows to either edge, and it's round and looks like our clock, lol............just partially kidding. Although Lee Circle looks like it would be a very intriguing place to {try} to bury or dig up a casque, I don't think it could be possible.  The reason being (1) the small size of the area and (2) the presence of constant traffic ALL around the area.

slappybuns wrote:: forrest, i don't guess you could dig around lee circle , huh?  but looking at lee circle from google earth, it looks like 15 rows to either edge, and it's round and looks like our clock, lol............just partially kidding. Although Lee Circle looks like it would be a very intriguing place to {try} to bury or dig up a casque, I don't think it could be possible.  The reason being (1) the small size of the area and (2) the presence of constant traffic ALL around the area.

and these lines not fitting that area Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours

Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch I find it interesting that the phrase "From end to end" even exists in the Verse.  Since it is there, it must have some significance.  For example, if we were just talking about a brick wall 15 rows high and 21 bricks across, then there would be no need for the phrase "From end to end."  It must be referring to something that we are not figuring out at the moment.  It cannot simply be that we are looking for something which is located in the middle of 21 things.  I think "From end to end" could be a big clue as to where the treasure is hidden. Of course, we could be talking about the 15 by 21 brick wall if "From end to end" modified the phrase "Only 3 stand watch," but that does not seem to fit as well as "In the middle of 21 from end to end."  Think people, think.  What could "end to end" refer to?   :group)

Ok so how about start at Preservation hall head down Bourbon St. pass the statue of the boy at Lafayette Square head down to lee circle take a left. Go a few blocks to At the place where jewels abound  North and South Diamond St. Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end There is a median between N and South Diamond St.  Possibly it has 21 trees on it? or maybe it did at one time? Only three stand watch currently about 1/2 down the median are three palm trees ,they look small but maybe they are replanted... As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours  Sounds like a park to me..... Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter  near the old site of the ST Charles.... Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site.  = Just down the river from the ferry terminal - where better for Gnomes and Fairys to meet at a ferry terminal.....

Ok so how about start at Preservation hall head down Bourbon St. pass the statue of the boy at Lafayette Square head down to lee circle take a left. Go a few blocks to At the place where jewels abound  North and South Diamond St. Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end There is a median between N and South Diamond St.  Possibly it has 21 trees on it? or maybe it did at one time? Only three stand watch currently about 1/2 down the median are three palm trees ,they look small but maybe they are replanted... As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours  Sounds like a park to me..... Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter  near the old site of the ST Charles.... Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site.  = Just down the river from the ferry terminal - where better for Gnomes and Fairys to meet at a ferry terminal.....

maltedfalcon wrote:: Just down the river from the ferry terminal - where better for Gnomes and Fairys to meet at a ferry terminal..... Classic.  Is there a large or semi large park located at your end location falcon?

directly in front of the building is North South Diamond St... It is divided by a long block median... Note this area flooded in katrina, changed 4 years after the publication when the convention center was put it in.

malted - that building is the Fulton Place Parking Center. Can you find out when it was built? It looks like it may be newer than 1981.

The historic St. Charles streetcar starts very near the location of the Old St. Charles Hotel, runs past Lafayette park and beyond. " From end to end" made me think of this line. Forrest, do you know if there are 21 specifically numbered stops along the way?  The route seems pretty long, so it probably has more stops than that, but it could tie in to the verse somehow.

maskit wrote:: The historic St. Charles streetcar starts very near the location of the Old St. Charles Hotel, runs past Lafayette park and beyond. " From end to end" made me think of this line. Forrest, do you know if there are 21 specifically numbered stops along the way?  The route seems pretty long, so it probably has more stops than that, but it could tie in to the verse somehow. That is a neat idea, but I don't really see how to match it to the verse. This map shows 46 stops, and it's only part of the route. hxxp://www.bigeasy.com/maps/map-uptown.html

forest_blight wrote:: malted - that building is the Fulton Place Parking Center. Can you find out when it was built? It looks like it may be newer than 1981. No problem it also works for other buildings right there I just picked one.

Just to insert some perspective here, remember that in the Chicago solution "ten by thirteen" referred to prominent trees arranged in lines. Only a couple of those 23 trees remain to the present day. We are having similar problems with birches in Milwaukee. 26 years is a long time! Old photos may be the key.

Forrest wrote:: That is a neat idea, but I don't really see how to match it to the verse. This map shows 46 stops, and it's only part of the route. hxxp://www.bigeasy.com/maps/map-uptown.html Great map, thanks!  I looked but couldn't find a good one. I hoped to find it had fewer stops. The only Quaker Meeting place ("sound of friends") iin New Orleans is also along the St. Charles line at the point where it ends in Carrollton. I  thought I was on to something, but the Quakers meet in someone else's church.  They don't seem to have an established building of their own, so it didn't seem like a very solid match. Maltedfalcon, yiour fairy-gnome match to the Ferry is genius.

forest_blight wrote:: Just to insert some perspective here, remember that in the Chicago solution "ten by thirteen" referred to prominent trees arranged in lines. Only a couple of those 23 trees remain to the present day. We are having similar problems with birches in Milwaukee. 26 years is a long time! Old photos may be the key. Good point, and the Lafayette Sq Conservancy has several pictures of them replacing many trees that were blown down during the hurricane.  I think it was shecrab that learned that they were supposedly replanting trees in the same locations as the destroyed trees so we would still be in luck.  If this isn't the case however....

That's what the Lafayette conservancy website and plan states--that all the trees were replaced exactly as the park looked in 1974. On that streetcar map--there are not 46 stops shown--if you look at them, they don't go from 1-46. They skip numbers on the yellow indicators-- and there are only 21 actual indicators shown. "in the middle of 21" (of those indicators) would be roughly where the NUMBER 21 INDICATOR is....but there is no park or other public land there that I can see on a real map. It's just about in front of the St. Charles Hospital about where Peniston St. crosses St. Charles.

one idea i had for "as the sound of friends" : hxxp://friendsofcitypark.com/about.html started in 1979 notice it also says "Storyland fairytale playground with more than twenty larger-than-life exhibits showcasing scenes and characters from favorite children's stories. " "fill the afternoon hours"......something like this sign, that tells the hours of operation, on the outside of storyland hxxp://flickr.com/photos/rogie_la/2070907577/

I had a chance to start looking at this book again, and started digging into page 48, which is a familiy style portrait photo of many of the fairies and positioned right across from verse 2 on page 49.  I don't have a scanner handy, but the fairies are sitting on a series of steps -- the last fairy on row number 15, counting down to the ground.  There are 22 fairies from my count, so if you said "In the middle of 21", that could be a clue to look for a central fairy--which I think might be the "Left Wing Symp and Right Wing Trog" positioned on step 15, described later on page 140 (where it is again backed by steps in a solo-photo) as hailing from North and or South Dakota, but can never agree on which.  When the verse on page 49 goes on to say "only three stand watch" it may be that there are 3 fairies that were sculptured instead of sketched missing from the group photo, all with a location in common. I will keep looking, but I thought that this was worth mentioning because the title above the group photo was aslo included with the banner "The Verses"

hi guys, i'm back i had a new thought about "in the middle of twenty-one" went something like this....21...blackjack....tree............in the south we have these trees called blackjack oaks (i won't get into my thoughts on "blackjack game, first mentioned by cervantes in don quixote, cervantes- prince of wits, windmills) anyway, maybe mother goose is hanging from a blackjack tree hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/79761301@N00/3165618000/ so "only 3 stand watch" still hoping to get my old notes back from dead computer

The namesakes meeting Near this site Thinking about this namesakes thing... A namesake is something that is named after something else. In verse 6 we have: "Edwin and Edwina named after him". So maybe these are the namesakes. After all, Edwin and Edwina are from Sarmiento, and we have another Sarmiento quote in this same verse. It's a bit of a coincidence. Now, although verse 6 is referring to one pair of namesakes, we also have another identically named pair to consider: the Booths. The Smithsonian has the photo of Edwin and Edwina Booth "meeting": hxxp://www.civilwar.si.edu/brady_booth.html ...and was also the setting for the exhibition which kicked off the whole Sarmiento thing as far as I understand it. (Incidentally, it also has a stash of jewels and the Copley "Red Cross Knight" painting, though I don't know where it was in the 80s.) So I'm wondering about this as a candidate for "near this site".

Edwin and Edwina are not from Sarmiento. Both the Sarmiento quote and the connection of Edwin and Edwina to Edward Wilmot Blyden are from the same book, but in different chapters.

(Aha - OK, cheers.)

.

Okay, now it's my turn to brainstorm. I was answering a post on the 12 bbs today, and something occurred to me that may clinch the location for the N.O. casque. Verse 2 (IMHO) points directly to New Orleans, but I'm going to take this out of order somewhat: At the place where jewels abound there is an entire section of the city of NO where the streets and parks are named after jewels. I'd say that qualifies as "abounding". Only three stand watch has been said to represent the three great institutions that are represented on Jackson Square: education, government and justice OR could simply mean the three spires on the St. Louis cathedral in the same place. It's a famous landmark, giving a very notable visual "three" for this city. Works for me either way. As the sound of friends fills the afternoon hours many many many of the parks in NO are gathering places for music, meetings, parades, etc. Here is a sovereign people etc. quote from Sarmiento directly pointing to the city of New Orleans, in particular, the St. Charles hotel. Now here's the connecting thoughts: ... stand watch ... equestrian statue of A. Jackson, Jackson Sq....where there are ...3...may pair up with the equestrian statue of R. E. LEE in LEE CIRCLE, which is on St. Charles Ave . and where the bleachers are erected to watch the Mardi Gras parade...bleachers...rows... 15 rows down to the ground.... and which is on the streetcar line called...the St. Charles Streetcar Line...which has numbered stops...and stop 21 would appear to be somewhere near Antonine St. (the stops are all numbered)....or perhaps they mean "Louisiana Street" which is a couple streets further on...? Well, perhaps. Now the next lines can confirm the location even more: gnomes amire, fays delight gnomes are "little people". CHILDREN are "little people." (a namesake)  "Admiring" children (little people/gnomes) gave $$ to erect the statue of John McDonogh in Lafayette Square--the statue that has the figure of a boy that is exactly like the figure on the clock face in Image 7. I'd say that qualified as namesakes "meeting" near the site. What site? Lafayette Square. It's off of St. Charles Ave. On the Streetcar line.  I think the casque was buried in Lafayette Square,, where the 'gnomes' admired and the laFAYette fays met up.

And the 3 that stand watch could actually simply refer to the three statues IN Lafayette square: Henry Clay, Benjamin Franklin and John McDonogh. That's even simpler and more direct.

And something I learned today: "In the middle of 21" might just refer to Lafayette Square again, because there are 21 live oak trees in the park. Actually, there are 22 now. But "in the middle of 21, from end to end" might refer to one edge of the square where there is a long row of hedges or bushes, and the 21 llive oaks are arranged around the square.  I have a pic of this---actually a map. I'll try to post it later.

The Lafayette Square Conservancy have a planting coming up on May 14th. If you dropped them an email maybe you could persuade them to dig in an extra caladium or two.  ;)

I don't think the casque is in the flower beds. That's what BP said. Page 219 under "The Treasure", paragraph 5, (c).

What about the flower bed across from jackson square? 15 rows = 15 steps from the middle level to the ground. 21 from end to end may just refer to a unit of measure like feet. Was this structure even in place around 1981?

ooooohhhh, from the "spanish" sign..........thanks cw you ole pirate i think egbert found it behind that big stonework, and it seems the back was like a hill, but i'm not sure, someone who has been there could tell us

You walked right into that one.  :D (...yeah, good point cw. Guess we shouldn't interpret flower beds too broadly...)

wow, that sure confuses me, if the litany  points to the verse to use, then look: Turqoise the Fays of France keep :  stone Rare as a blue midsummer's day and then verse 7: "To the place The casque is kept" hxxp://www.frenchquartercondotrends.com/?p=1470 and she looks like ponce

slappybuns wrote:: ooooohhhh, from the "spanish" sign..........thanks cw you ole pirate  :) i think egbert found it behind that big stonework, and it seems the back was like a hill, but i'm not sure, someone who has been there could tell us slappy it was the greek garden,next to the italian garden so it says in the article and the verse said, (In a rectangular plot),and that is where egbert found it at the wall, must be some difference i dont see between,rectangular plot,planter,flower bed,maybe flower beds that arent in a planter LOL hxxp://www.angelfire.com/dragon/egbert/secret.html anyway seems like someone brought up,Gnomes and the NO saints once, ill check it out might be another lead,i like the jewels idea too fixed a typo

The difference is that there were no flowers planted in the plot by the wall where the casque was found. It was just dirt by the wall--in back of the wall, in fact, if I am remembering correctly.

Fays delight - face the light...?

it was behind a planter, behind the wall which is shown as part of the image. it was part of a raised cement structure, but more of a leftover behind the scenes area. Nothing had ever been planted there. like a planter box that had a wall set up in the middle of it. leaving a dirt area behind the wall. think of it as the area behind a baseball backstop.

I'm not saying verse 2 should be paired with image 1.  However I do think the line Only three stand watch has a crossover to image 1 with the watch piece on the small tablestand.  Call it crossover or cameo, there is a track record of these one liners at play.

erexere wrote:: I'm not saying verse 2 should be paired with image 1.  However I do think the line Only three stand watch has a crossover to image 1 with the watch piece on the small tablestand.  Call it crossover or cameo, there is a track record of these one liners at play. ... yes, but 7's is standing at 3. i just blew my mind.

However, I am with you on the notion that a verse will link itself to an image based on the previous solves. What does y'all think? Do all verses contain definite links to the images, aside from being clues to the location?

Isn't fifteen rows down to the ground just another way of saying "15 columns"?

so is... In the middle of twenty-one From end to end what of it?

Ah, I was just losing my way around Montreal.  The football field idea got away from me.  I remember where I left off now, working on a Notre-Dame theory...blast, I know no French.

erexere wrote:: Isn't fifteen rows down to the ground just another way of saying "15 columns"? no, its not, I teach an Excel class, Rows go accross, columns go up and down. Horizontal isn't the same as vertical

Place where jewels abound High school kids?

I'm trying too hard again, eh?  I was hoping someone would say something about Twain being a chess player, but I don't know of any famous games. One thing that is certain, more beginners play the Stonewall irregardless.  It's a fairly weak opening.

erexere wrote:: One thing that is certain, more beginners play the Stonewall irregardless.  It's a fairly weak opening. Quite possibly true....beginners...who take chess classes.  I have never taken a chess class but I occasionally dally, especially now that my son has been in chess club for the past 2 years.  Perhaps I may be even using the Stonewall but have no idea what it is called.  I have to agree once again with SheCrab.  I think you are once again getting yourself carried away and looking faaaaaaaaaar tooooooooo deeeeeeeeep for answers.

Verse 2. Image 7 ideas. At the place where jewels abound I'm guessing it's the dense layout of lamp posts on Basin Steet. Fifteen rows down to the ground The south west corner of St. Louis Cemetery No. 1 has 15 rows of tombs "down to the ground". In the middle of twenty-one east of those 15 rows can be found tomb #21. From end to end Only three stand watch Along Basin are only three statues: Simon Bolivar, Benito Juarez, and Francisco Morazan. As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Tourist and family visiting the cemetery.  Tombs are the palaces. "The living find comfort and are consoled by visiting the burial places of their loved ones and praying for them," is written on the plaque at the gate entrance. Gnomes admire Stone tombs Fays delight Spirits The namesakes meeting Near this site. St. Louis street / St. Louis Cemetery.  (I know it sounds too easy, but only cemetery #1 touches St. Louis street.) Im guessing the alignment of the three statues to the southwest intersects 90 degrees with a line to the middle of the 21st tomb.  That is right in the middle of the grassy center of Basin street.  Police station nearby makes it a terrible spot to look inconspicuous.  I donno.  I suggest ninja after midnight maneuvers...

Verse 2. Image 7 ideas. At the place where jewels abound I'm guessing it's the dense layout of lamp posts on Basin Steet. Fifteen rows down to the ground The south west corner of St. Louis Cemetery No. 1 has 15 rows of tombs "down to the ground". In the middle of twenty-one east of those 15 rows can be found tomb #21. From end to end Only three stand watch Along Basin are only three statues: Simon Bolivar, Benito Juarez, and Francisco Morazan. As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Tourist and family visiting the cemetery.  Tombs are the palaces. "The living find comfort and are consoled by visiting the burial places of their loved ones and praying for them," is written on the plaque at the gate entrance. Gnomes admire Stone tombs Fays delight Spirits The namesakes meeting Near this site. St. Louis street / St. Louis Cemetery.  (I know it sounds too easy, but only cemetery #1 touches St. Louis street.) Im guessing the alignment of the three statues to the southwest intersects 90 degrees with a line to the middle of the 21st tomb.  That is right in the middle of the grassy center of Basin street.  Police station nearby makes it a terrible spot to look inconspicuous.  I donno.  I suggest ninja after midnight maneuvers...

You suggest ninjas...I suggest another location.

I am suggesting a neutral area of grass, so it's not IN the cemetery or in a flower bed.  Fox, are you suggesting another location based on my posted theory or just another one altogether? What do you think about the plaque quote or this usage of namesakes meet?

The place where jewels abound?  That's just New Orleans PERIOD. There's an entire neighborhood where the streets are named after jewels. Fake "Jewels" are thrown to bystanders and revelers at Mardi Gras. An early written guide to the city was called "Jewell's Crescent City" and is still in print and used to this day. Edwin Jewell was a great promoter of new Orleans for the tourist industry. How did you get from jewels to lampposts?

shecrab wrote:: The place where jewels abound?  That's just New Orleans PERIOD. There's an entire neighborhood where the streets are named after jewels. Fake "Jewels" are thrown to bystanders and revelers at Mardi Gras. An early written guide to the city was called "Jewell's Crescent City" and is still in print and used to this day. Edwin Jewell was a great promoter of new Orleans for the tourist industry. How did you get from jewels to lampposts? PERIOD?  Sure, based on your single non-debatable criteria, BP himself isn't allowed to refer to a host of glimmering lamp lights as glimmering jewels.  A lot of things are referrable as 'jewels'.  Let me lend you my Thesaurus.

And that there, I believe, is your problem. Pull out your thesaurus and look up meanings for :  Lane, step, pole, fortress, lion, whistle, watch, shelter, site, tower, pass, letters, steps, arc, swept, paces, etc...etc...etc... BP himself said that he didnt think these were that hard.  We cant keep pulling out our thesauruses (or is it thesauri) to force a fit to a location we like.  What in here is obscure: "Verse 4 Beneath two countries As the road curves In a rectangular plot Beneath the tenth stone From right to left Beneath the ninth row from the top Of the wall including small bricks Seven steps up you can hop From the bottom level Socrates, Pindar, Apelles Free speech, couplet, birch To find casque's destination Seek the columns For the search." NOTHING and yet a casque was found.

Isn't it more of a problem to suggest that since one casque was easy that the rest will be as easy?  Seems like a silly rebuttle to say it is simple and nothing is debatable. Why aren't you responding to the idea that a jewel can be a thing of reference?  Are you saying ALL of the verses are 100% literal? Oh.. First line..those weren't countries...they were gardens named after countries...aren't you silly to think they are actual countries?  Let me lend you a world map too!

erexere wrote:: PERIOD?  Sure, based on your single non-debatable criteria, BP himself isn't allowed to refer to a host of glimmering lamp lights as glimmering jewels.  A lot of things are referrable as 'jewels'.  Let me lend you my Thesaurus. Oh for crying out loud. Let ME lend YOU my encyclopedia, and you can look up the term "Occam's Razor".

Why? Do you think ex needs a shave? ooops silly me, that is Gillette's razor, not Occam's razor.

Okay, if it's not doing you any good, I love freebies. So you reject my answer to your question?  I suppose BP also said it was so simple nobody would think to compare a whole bunch of lights to his "jewels abound" line?  My point, folks readily condemn an idea...justify however you like...but why bother?  I'm supplying ideas as contribution.  You're 100% wrong to say I'm doing so in an effort to go against solid ideas.  Occams Razor would dictate that the solid idea would have recovered a casque by now. Again, lots of lights could be seen as jewels.  Stars in the heavens can be described as jewels also.  Please don't be so dense about this and rule my gesture to contribute to this hunt as a whole as "random" or "obscure".  You don't like it, thanks for saying, but please refrain from distracting remarks, which in themselves contribute nothing to the forum and only represent you as an antagonist.

I was thinking these look similar to earrings and it would be obvious that lots of something such as these lights looks like "jewels abounds".  The Basin Street idea wasn't a random occurrence, I used the image7 to get there and just looked for anything that fit.  It's not so much about forcing a fit, it's about looking at the simplest possible explanation for each line in the verse. Here is a line drawn from the #21 tomb to intersect with a line drawn between the only "three standing" statues on Basin street.  The blue box showing fifteen is based on the actual numbered map of the cemetery, so it's not subject to me having miscounted or anything.  These are just verifiable ideas at this point.  One arbitrary element is the 15 rows of tombs stretches from corner to center gate,and it doesn't seem to be required.  in the middle of 21 could be ascertained without, right?  I will continue looking for options.  Have a look, I really think BP must've snuck this casque in at night.  Maybe he was disguised as a guy pushing a shopping cart with a shovel and some dirty rags in it...what was homeless like back in 1980?

Unknown: It's not so much about forcing a fit, it's about looking at the simplest possible explanation for each line in the verse. THat's what Occam's Razor IS. The simplest possible explanation. And I fail--completely--to see how looking at a line of lampposts suggests that they are in any way JEWELS. Why on earth would he pick one item--lampposts--to represent jewels in a city where JEWELS ABOUND IN SO MANY OTHER AND REALISTIC WAYS????? It makes no sense. But you keep up the fight. I'm sure that you will soldier on despite the obvious.

I will reiterate my firm belief that Jewels Abound represents race horses - singluarly valuable rare in quality admired valued And are bred by studs ( family jewels ) Not to mention that the triple crown races are the first, second, and thrid jewel in the triple crown. (royalty) And of course 'In the Middle of 21' talks about the 'u' or the horseshoe. But, thats an argument that fox would say is beating a dead horse.

So shecrab, you imply there is more redundancy going on in v2 than the other verses, why? Image 7 is New Orleans for many obvious reasons already.  It serves the purpose ffor narrowing it down to a city.  Why then do the same task with a verse?  I only carry the logic a step forward to say the verse narrows it down to an iconic row of lights.  Btw, i used a picture of canal street.  So its the intersection of basin and canal. You are going to have to trust me on the earrings being a concept in form that look like the iconic lamp posts.  Some earrings dangle from the ear just like those in the picture i shared with you. Maybe you need to show everyone where all the other verses name their city with such an analogy and that your redundancy idea carries such obviousness for all to see. Trohn, thats not too shabby of a theory.  The jockey disguise and chess knight on the oval shaped bulge gives it momentum for a horse race...and a healthy money bet.  It looks strong from one angle but weaker from another.  I see the bulge as a "fat" reference as well as a locator of "center of an oval", !?! Thats great for my latest idea, i just picked a center of a lawn covered median on basin street and concluded "knight" is the best time to go a digging...and i'll cite the jewels abound line as a night time suggestion, thus giving the line purpose beyond obvious/irrelevance/or redundance. Preiss did say "St. Louis is correct", but did he mean the city of St. Louis or the cemetery called St.Louis on St. Louis street?  (...or dont consider my question, as I know useless remarks are expected from the usual automatons of late who would rather believe Occam himself penned The Secret).

shecrab wrote:: THat's what Occam's Razor IS. The simplest possible explanation. And I fail--completely--to see how looking at a line of lampposts suggests that they are in any way JEWELS. Why on earth would he pick one item--lampposts--to represent jewels in a city where JEWELS ABOUND IN SO MANY OTHER AND REALISTIC WAYS?????   :bang) It makes no sense. But you keep up the fight. I'm sure that you will soldier on despite the obvious. Cite Occums Razor, then avoid to address that it applies to this next question?  Why hasnt the simplest explaination based on solid ideas recovered a casque yet?

Because - I dont have permission to dig until January.

erexere wrote:: Cite Occums Razor, then avoid to address that it applies to this next question?  Why hasnt the simplest explaination based on solid ideas recovered a casque yet? erexere wrote:: Preiss did say "St. Louis is correct", but did he mean the city of St. Louis or the cemetery called St.Louis on St. Louis street?  (...or dont consider my question, as I know useless remarks are expected from the usual automatons of late who would rather believe Occam himself penned The Secret). Trohn wrote:: But, thats an argument that fox would say is beating a dead horse. Because it has....twice...in Chicago and Cleveland. This autamaton thinks that is a valid question.  I still find myself occasionally straying from Lafayette Park back to Jackson Square because of the St Louis Cathedral. Trohn, you know I respect a lot of you theories......

fox wrote:: Because it has....twice...in Chicago and Cleveland. I really don't feel that from the two finds the solution has been found yet. Chicago They figured out the city and Lincoln, everything else was very very very vague. Egbert figured out the clues for cleveland, but I actually think he had several of them wrong. but he had enough to get to the site. What I have been trying to do is distill the two solutions into one generic one.

Unknown: Cite Occums Razor, then avoid to address that it applies to this next question? Unknown: They figured out the city and Lincoln, everything else was very very very vague. To Eric: Avoid it?? I did NOT avoid it. I said that a jewel--an OBJECT, not a metaphor--is more LIKELY the answer than a metaphor. How is that avoiding anything? To MF: No it wasn't.

TenByThirteen wrote:: It did take us about 9 months to find the location, but were seriously stumped at the final location. At that point we did call the Author and described all our clues and the locations of the multiple digs. Byron eventually sent us a photograph of the freshly turned earth and we furiously dug a hole about 3' square and deep. Being frustrated, one of us threw the shovel at the wall of the hole and a little sliver of dirt fell off revealing the casque in the plexiglass box. Pluse the M&B was wrong.  I'd say they really didn't actually solve it, but came close and then BP helped them along. And Egbert said, The Terminal Tower was just a general clevland clue, not connected to the site. So I stand by my statement. The generic solution hasnt been found yet, Thats what I am trying to come up with.

Malt -- why do you think there is a generic solution? I'm not sold on this idea. It is true that Stadther's first hunt followed pretty much the same generic recipe for every treasure. Once the formula was discovered, the treasures fell like dominoes. But all hunts don't have to be that way. In BP's shoes, I would try to make each one unique.

Why do I think there is a generic solution? My first clue was when I noticed that The Chicago water tower and the Bowman statue were on the same street. Then when I found out that the park that holds the Greek Cultural Garden and the Cleveland Terminal Tower were on the same street. I realized that My solution for San Francisco, was totally wrong. I had picked a part of the verse "Giant Pole" and reverse engineered it from there. I realized I truly did not understand anything about the image except the map was Golden Gate Park. Now I new that the Image contains a Path to arrive at the treasure ground, besides, lat/lon, it also must have site confirmers. So I went back to image 1 and looked at it knowing it had much more to tell me.  I knew in Chicago and Cleveland the start of the path was an famous landmark . I knew the end of the path was another image. In image 1 I had Golden Gate Park and Lincolns head. she was pointint to 34 (in the reverse image).  Following those clues alone I arrived at Lincoln park where careful searching found Site confirmer images. So by simply using the idea that there is a generic solution I have gotten farther in 2 months than I have since 1982.  I can see it also fits milwaukee, I suspect it works in Charleston as well, at this point I believe it to be universal because the odds on it being different/unique get longer and longer the more we find that follow this solution. Thats why.

Okay, thanks. That sounds reasonable.

I was thinking about this whole "namesakes" issue today in the shower, where I do most of my thinking. Let's subject this to a little logic. The lines in question: The namesakes meeting Near this site. First, to get it out of the way, I think it is safe to conclude that "this site" refers to the treasure ground. Mostly we have been thinking of the "namesakes" as a confirmer of sorts, a way to give us confidence that our pet theory might be correct, should something fitting the description of "namesakes" show up near a favored spot. But why not start there? Here are 3 definitions of namesake that I pulled from online sources: 1. "A person or thing that has the same name as another." 2. "A person or thing named after another." 3. "Namesake is a term used to characterize a person, place, thing, quality, action, state, or idea that has the same, or a similar, name to another. In the United States, the term is often used for a person or thing actually named after, rather than merely sharing the name of another. For example, if a person, place, or thing is named after another person, place, or thing, then the name target is said to be the namesake of the name source." Except for #3 (partially), these definitions agree that the "namesakes" share the same name. This helps us rule out certain pairs, like "Edwin and Edwina," who may have been named after the same person (Edward Wilmot Blyden) but are not themselves namesakes. It also rules out (1) famous pairs of people, like Lewis and Clark; (2) pairs of people who have similar, but not identical, names, like Charles and Charlotte; and (3) entities with entirely different names, like gnomes and fays. I would also not regard married couples with the same married name as namesakes, but two unrelated people with the same name would qualify as namesakes by this thinking. We have established that "namesakes" likely refers to people or things. But now let's dissect "meeting." If the namesakes in question are people, then the only way I can see these two lines having meaning are if two historic figures literally "met" near the treasure ground. For example, if Douglas Adams and Kirk Douglas had somehow met in New Orleans, that would qualify as "namesakes meeting." But I don't think the lines refer to actual people literally meeting near the treasure ground, and here's why. It's a treasure hunt. Treasure hunts are all about locating a precise spot on the ground, so most clues and hints refer to places, not people. I think "namesakes" almost certainly refers to geographic features or places. but not just any features or places -- they have to be the kind of features or places that can realistically "meet." For example, historic structures or landmarks cannot be said "meet" each other because they just sit there. They do not "go" anywhere. On the other hand, features that can "go" and therefore "meet" might include: Roads (highways, streets, lanes, boulevards, circles, terraces, pikes, etc.) Waterways (streams, rivers, canals, brooks, creeks, etc.) Here are some fictitious examples of namesakes meeting: Intersection of Clemens Blvd. and Clemens St. Merger of Lupin Rd. and Lupin Hwy. Mississippi River and Mississippi Ln. Jackson Hwy. and Old Jackson Hwy. I would even go so far as to suggest that one of the namesakes in question could be "stationary," as long as the other one is not. For example, we might encounter: Pontchartrain Ln. meeting Lake Pontchartrain Canal St. terminating at Canal Cemetery Personally, I think we ought to be scouring maps of New Orleans for places that fit this description, then seeing if they fit with the rest of the verse. I am aware that there is room for disagreement here, but like most people expressing opinions, I think mine is right. Clearly, I take long showers.

I was just thinking along those lines where Folly near Charleston is also an architectural term for a decorative structure or building.

One of the simplest interpretations is the intersection of two roads named after different people, which unfortunately happens all over the place. (Eg Penfield and McGregor alongside Percy Walters Park , or St Charles and Maestri alongside Lafayette.)

WR, I'm not sure it is as common as you think. No two roads in the same city should have identical names (this does happen, but rarely), although one could be a "road" and the other a "street." In New Orleans, there are the following, for example: Audubon Boulevard Audubon Court Audubon Park Audubon Place Audubon Street ...creating 10 potential "meetings." Do any of them actually intersect? Audubon Blvd. and Audubon Place are apparently the same road, just separated by some grassy land and an intervening chunk of road called Newcomb Place. They don't actually meet. Audubon Street runs parallel to both, but does not intersect with either of them. Audubon Street and Audubon Court do intersect, so that would be a legitimate "namesakes meeting." Another intersection is where Audubon Place hits Audubon Park. Nowhere else in N.O. do two "Audubons" meet. These are the kinds of places I think attention should be focused. Also, WR -- what you suggest is exactly what I am trying to emphasize does NOT count as "namesakes." If the two roads are named after different people, they are NOT namesakes unless their names happen to be the same. In your two examples, the names are different.

Unknown: ...these definitions agree that the "namesakes" share the same name...If the two roads are named after different people, they are NOT namesakes unless their names happen to be the same. The namesakes meeting Near this site. Hang on though, there's two different pairs here... 1) A thing and its namesake 2) Two namesakes that meet St Charles is the namesake of St Charles, Maestri is the namesake of Maestri, and they meet at the corner of Lafayette. They are both "namesakes" by your definition (2) above; just not of each other.

I don't object to the literal truth of what you say, WR, but the same could be said of virtually every street, couldn't it? Every road is the namesake of *something,* and the something after which every street is named is also the namesake of something. Once the scope is broadened like that, the clue ceases to be useful.

There's plenty clues in this book that aren't very useful.

Doesn't it seem likely that "Louis" is our best candidate namesake?  Louis Armstrong, St. Louis Street, St. Louis Cemetery (New Orleans), maybe even "Toulouse" is a gleichwort for "to Louis".

erexere wrote:: Doesn't it seem likely that "Louis" is our best candidate namesake? (Only if it's the right verse for New Orleans.) Gnomes admire, fays delight The namesakes meeting near this site How about "Brownies"...? Junior girl guides with the same name as fairies...(named from this book ). hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownie_(Girl_Guides) hxxp://www.brownie-camera.com/articles/ ... igin.shtml It's a word that's also been used to describe various groups that have admired someone called "Brown" at different times - "Gnomes (who) admire"...? hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brownie (On a random note, the St Louis Browns were called Brownies, and there's a Forest Park connection.) "The Crusader logo for the Browns is a copy of the statue of Saint Louis (the French crusading king) that sits atop Art Hill in Forest Park (right outside the entrance to the Art Museum)." hxxp://www.baseball-fever.com/showthrea ... and-others

At the place where jewels abound Blake wrote that Cowper's letters "ought to be printed in letters of Gold and ornamented with jewels of Heaven, Havilah, Eden and all the countries where Jewels abound." Montreal used to have an Eden restaurant almost next door to the Mount Stephen Club (2025 Rue Drummond) - haven't managed to date it though. (How was the Mount Stephen Club found in the first place...?) Eden is now "M:brgr". The building was designed by Louis Napoléon Audet, and my favourite trail is from here to Trafalgar school for Girls at nearby Percy Walters Park (tying up the start and end of the trail with Napoleon).

The sign I'm using as a confirmer for this spot is similar to the one I've suggested for New York.

That reads like it was originally in German.

...No, no - let Duigenan search the papal chair For fragrant treasures long forgotten there; And, as the witch of sunless Lapland thinks That little swarthy gnomes delight in stinks... - Thomas Moore

The same T. Moore, Esq., appeared in the same book as [I think] you pulled the C. Leftly, Esq., poem from (The Poetical register, and repository of fugitive poetry). Intolerance specifically, did not appear.

forest_blight wrote:: I was thinking about this whole "namesakes" issue today in the shower, where I do most of my thinking. Let's subject this to a little logic. The lines in question: The namesakes meeting Near this site. 1. "A person or thing that has the same name as another." 2. ... Esquire? Squire? ... per wikipedia: " In the United States, the suffix Esq. most commonly designates individuals licensed to practice law "

LOL, Boston!!!

The line from end to end is a challenge. Im looking at several angles.  End could mean death, but it could also mean birth, since a beginning is also an end if you look at it in line perspective.  Im currently considering St. Judes church and the connection to the Childrens hospital.  Its a deep perspective amidst other child based ideas concerning Margaret Haughery and also John McDonogh.

erexere wrote:: End could mean death, but it could also mean birth No, honestly, it couldn't. The end of what? Gestation?

End to end I think it most simply refers to "beginning and ending".  Mardi Gras starts at 8am with the Krewe of Zulu and ends with the Krewe of Comus (and Rex).

erexere wrote:: T, that is cool, but too chilly for me.  Have you made any adjustments to your St. Louis theory? I do not have a St Louis theory.  Personally, I think it is flat wrong. Its at Churchill Downs. The middle of 21 is the winners circle horseshoe (21 = U) Its been a long time, but that spot has never been changed.

Wait, you think it is here? That is akin to going to Indy....counting some bricks, and prying one up to look under it.

It would be wild if it was there.

Fox, its not that random. "In the middle of 21, from end to end" In the middle of twenty one refers to the winners circle horseshoe - which you have a nice color photo of. But not 'in the middle' but 'in the middle from end to end' so not in the middle of the bowl - but in the middle from the ends of the points. Its a specific spot - pace from the left to the right - count your paces and then retreat half the number back. Its really smart - because of all the changes that have taken place over the thirty years, that one spot remains exactly where it has always been. And back thrity years ago, security was practically non existent.

Fox- Let me know if you want me to drag back up the photo of the first section (before they reconfigured it ten years ago) that was directly in sight line of the winners circle - which clearly shows - fifteen rows of bench seating.

Trohn wrote:: Fifteen Rows down to the ground. Bump. The photo can still be seen on this thread on page seven.

fox wrote:: looks like 15 or 16 to me. Bump.  WOW... nearly five years.

That link does not work for me.

shecrab wrote:: That link does not work for me. The photo is imbedded on page seven of this thread. The link didn't come over properly.

Hyeah: hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h ... 679#p56679

Dont get me wrong Trohn, the reasoning is great.  I just think the location is too (for lack of better words) famous.  Even if there was NO security back then, I just dont think it reasonable to go to the infield of Churchill Downs and dig.  I would be more at ease finding an out of the way corner of Disneyland and digging (which of course I would never do).  Quick question...during off season, are the grounds of Churchill Downs, including the infield, open for the public to just wander around in?

fox wrote:: Dont get me wrong Trohn, the reasoning is great.  I just think the location is too (for lack of better words) famous.  Even if there was NO security back then, I just dont think it reasonable to go to the infield of Churchill Downs and dig.  I would be more at ease finding an out of the way corner of Disneyland and digging (which of course I would never do).  Quick question...during off season, are the grounds of Churchill Downs, including the infield, open for the public to just wander around in? Back then.. more likely...  In the current climate, prob would need a 'chaperone'.  But with riders, exercisers, trainers, club members, if you look the part - not too many people would turn an eye. Fox - is Churchill Downs anymore famous than the Fountain of Youth - and we know there is a casque there - as well as an archelogocial site from the early American settlers. The casque being there versus someone being able to retrieve it are two entirely different arguments.

It's just so exposed, though!  It'd be kind of like burying it behind second base at Yankee Stadium.

bigmattyh wrote:: It's just so exposed, though!  It'd be kind of like burying it behind second base at Yankee Stadium. Back in the early eighties, Churchill Downs was near disrepair and not well kept except for the one big day.  The infield is a giant garden that needs to be kept up by gardeners and groundkeepers.  Its not out of the question. That being that. lining up the verses with the images helps narro down the others ones and their locations. Just because it seems unreachable now, does not exclude the possibility or likelihood. Nearly six years ago, I was corresponding with the head of the stables to help get me some traction into a dig there - he has since retired. I haven't had the time or the motivation to continue afresh batch of contacts. The image with the jewel in the derby and this verse I have work hard on and am satisfied that I have it all reasoned out. If its there, its not moving any time soon.  Maybe spring will give me an urge to write a few more letters.  we'll see.

We really missed out on capitalizing on the Occupy protests.  People were setting up tents all over the place.  We could've gotten someone to set up a tent on any exposed spot as a protest and then shoveled to our hearts content while inside our fabric fortress...*sigh*

bigmattyh wrote:: It's just so exposed, though!  It'd be kind of like burying it behind second base at Yankee Stadium. That is exactly what I meant  :app) .  Not really the openess of it but the fact that it is Churchill Downs.  Give me a shovel and I will dig in the center of (out in plain site) Central Park any day of the week but you will NEVER find me digging in center field of Yankee Stadium.  NEVER And yes, I do feel there is a huge difference between FOY "PARK" and a major sporting event site such as Churchill Downs (which I think is similar to matt's Yankee Stadium).

fox wrote:: That is exactly what I meant  :app) .  Not really the openess of it but the fact that it is Churchill Downs.  Give me a shovel and I will dig in the center of (out in plain site) Central Park any day of the week but you will NEVER find me digging in center field of Yankee Stadium.  NEVER And yes, I do feel there is a huge difference between FOY "PARK" and a major sporting event site such as Churchill Downs (which I think is similar to matt's Yankee Stadium). 'Here is a soverign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night' I did hide it there but that facts remain that that is where it is.

'Only three stand watch'

I have less trouble believing that it is hidden in the infield of Churchill Downs than I do that it is in Kentucky. I don't believe it's anywhere but in New Orleans--but I DO think it might be hidden in the infield of the Fairgrounds racetrack.  The "three stand watch" there too. Three famous racehorses are already  buried there.

shecrab wrote:: The "three stand watch" there too. Three famous racehorses are already  buried there. Right...I bet they're keeping a keen lookout...

shecrab wrote:: I have less trouble believing that it is hidden in the infield of Churchill Downs than I do that it is in Kentucky. I don't believe it's anywhere but in New Orleans--but I DO think it might be hidden in the infield of the Fairgrounds racetrack.   The "three stand watch" there too. Three famous racehorses are already  buried there. Shecrab- I do not discount that a casque was buried in New Orleans but the verse/image pairing is not this one (verse 2, image 9) From memory, I think it is (verse 7 - Twain's Interest, and image 7 - White mask and Clock) That verse takes you down the Mississippi River Walk from the open air cafe to the Boat Docks near the now casino.

Namesakes .... Who is the founder of Churchill Downs? Block Best Answer - Chosen by Voters The track is named for John and Henry Churchill, who leased 80 acres of land to their nephew , Colonel Meriwether Lewis Clark , Jr. (grandson of explorer William Clark). Clark was president of the Louisville Jockey Club and Driving Park Association, which formed in 1874. His father-in-law, Richard Ten Broeck, was an accomplished horse breeder and trainer, and introduced Clark to horse racing, attending the English Derby at Epsom Downs outside London. Downs filled a void in Louisville left by the closing of Oakland and Woodlawn, two earlier race courses.

Meeting.... Lewis and Clark at the Falls of the Ohio: A Timeline By James J. Holmberg The Filson Historical Society Ca. March 1803 - William Clark (and George Rogers Clark) moves across the Ohio River to Clarksville due to financial reverses in trying to help George. They share a house at Point of Rocks (later Clark's Point) at the foot of the Falls. William sells Mulberry Hill to his brother Jonathan and his mill on Beargrass Creek to brother Edmund (both in May 1803). [George Rogers Clark writes William is settled at Clarksville in December 1802 in a letter to Thomas Jefferson, but other sources indicate and better verify March or April as the apparent time for his change in residence. There was a house that John Clark owned in Louisville (nw corner of Eighth and Jefferson) that was part of his estate in 1799. William might have stayed here when he was in Louisville or he might have stayed with various family members or friends. June 19, 1803 - Meriwether Lewis in Washington writes William Clark [at Clarksville probably] a letter inviting him to join him as co-commander of an expedition to the Pacific Ocean via the Louisiana Territory and the Oregon Country. July 18, 1803 - William Clark responds from Clarksville accepting the invitation. Requests that communications be sent/forwarded to Louisville. [This, together with Clark's later known locations, indicate he essentially established himself in Louisville while preparing for the expedition and arranging his affairs.] July 22, 1803 - Lewis in Pittsburgh writes to Thomas Jefferson. Direct further communication to him at Louisville. July 24, 1803 - Clark in Louisville writes Lewis that he is arranging his affairs so they will not have to delay long "after you arrival here" and that he has temporally engaged some likely men for the expedition. That same day Clark writes Jefferson from Clarksville, in which he expresses his pleasure in accompanying Lewis on the expedition and requests that he forward his enclosed letter to Lewis on to him. August 3, 1803 - Lewis in Pittsburgh writes to William Clark at Louisville. Refers to a possible interpreter that might "join us at Louisville." August 21, 1803 - Clark in Louisville writes to Lewis. August 26, 1803 - Clark at Falls Ohio writes to John Conner. Clark tells Conner to "join us at this place." [Falls was sometimes used instead of the town name. This was especially true for Louisville, since writing from the Falls of the Ohio had for many years basically meant that one was writing from Louisville. Given that Lewis had requested Clark to have an interpreter (Conner) join them at Louisville, it is logical to conclude that this is where Clark wrote this letter from.] September 3, 1803 - Clark in Louisville. Signs document assigning his power of attorney to his brother Jonathan. September 11, 1803 - Clark near Louisville writes to Lewis. [Clark may have been writing the letter from Jonathan Clark's or William Croghan's places or another family member's or friend's outside of Louisville. He may have located the letter "near Louisville" rather than use the estate's name. In writing Jonathan he often addressed the letters to him "near Louisville." September 28, 1803 - Lewis in Cincinnati writes to Clark at Louisville. October 14, 1803 - Meriwether Lewis arrives at Louisville. Report datelined Louisville, October 15, published in the November 1 edition of the Kentucky Gazette reports Lewis's arrival at "this port" on October 14. October 16 [15], 1803 - Thomas Rodney, Louisville to Caesar Rodney. Arrived in Louisville at 1:00 pm . . . "Captn. Lewis's boat passed the Falls just before we got here but I am informed he will be detained here all next [week]." [In comparing this letter to Rodney's journal, he apparently misdated the letter, actually writing it on October 15 but dating it October 16. This would also indicate that Lewis must have landed at Louisville and been there about a day before going through the Falls because people in Louisville already are aware that he will be detained "here" until next week. Rodney's statement that Lewis's boat "passed the Falls" would seem to indicate that the keelboat and pirogue were piloted through the Falls on October 15, the day after Lewis reached the Falls. Given the amount of time Clark spent in Louisville preparing for the expedition, arranging his affairs, and waiting for Lewis, it is logical to believe that he would have been awaiting his co-leader's arrival in Louisville, and that they would have met there on October 14. The haste with which the boats were taken through the Falls is a bit unusual. This might be explained by river conditions which necessitated a quick passage in order to take advantage of higher water and consequently generally a safer passage, or other local conditions unknown. The general procedure would be to stay at Louisville until ready to actually proceed down river. The resources (supplies, accommodations, etc.) needed - and in Lewis and Clark's case the vast majority of family and friends as well - were in Louisville. If not taken through the Falls due to conditions, it must have been done to fit a plan Lewis and Clark had re: keeping the boat at Clarksville while they "delayed" for almost two weeks in Louisville and Clarksville wrapping up/preparing their affairs preparatory to heading down the Ohio and into the wilderness. Could the keelboat have been damaged in going through the Falls and this accounted for the delay?] October 17, 1803 - Louisville. Thomas Rodney journal. Lewis and Clark visit him on his boat in the evening and take a glass of wine with him. October 24, 1803 - Jonathan Clark diary. Notes that he was in Louisville and then Clarksville that day. He spent the night in Clarksville with William. [Why was Jonathan in Louisville and then Clarksville that day? Had Lewis and Clark planned on pushing off downriver from Clarksville on the 24th, but were delayed for some reason? Contrary to what Rodney indicates, was the keelboat taken through the Falls on October 24th and Jonathan came into Louisville and went with the captains on the boat through the Falls? The time frame for taking the boat through the Falls just before setting out downriver would coincide well with the actual October 26th departure, but Rodney's comment re: "Captn. Lewis's boat" passing through the Falls on October 15 indicates that the boat went through the Falls on that date.] October 26, 1803, Louisville. William Clark is at the Jefferson County courthouse to acknowledge the assignment of his power of attorney to Jonathan. October 26, 1803, Clarksville. Jonathan Clark diary. Jonathan in Louisville and then in Clarksville. "Capt. Lewis and Capt. Wm. Clark sot [set] of[f] on a Western tour - went in their boat to Mr. Temple's. [Benjamin Temple was Jonathan's son-in-law who had a farm along the Ohio River in the area of present Lake Dreamland neighborhood in western Louisville. October 29, 1803 - Report datelined Louisville published in the Kentucky Gazette of November 8 stating "Capt. Clark and Mr. Lewis left this place on Wednesday last [Oct. 26], on their expedition to the Westward. Near This Site.

A statue is worth a thousand words (apparently) Lewis and Clark first meet just outside of Louisville to begin their journey together west....

Trohn, you might not be aware that my Corbett Oregon theory (image 6 verse 5) has an open question that might utilize Lewis & Clark.  The phoca rock formation was first described in their journals and they were early explorers.  Not as early as Ponce or Hezeta but maybe you are picking up on L&C clues for another reason.

erexere wrote:: Trohn, you might not be aware that my Corbett Oregon theory (image 6 verse 5) has an open question that might utilize Lewis & Clark.  The phoca rock formation was first described in their journals and they were early explorers.  Not as early as Ponce or Hezeta but maybe you are picking up on L&C clues for another reason. Sorry, no.  I have known this for close to eight years for this hunt and I have known that the nephew of Lewis and Clark founded Churchill Downs since I was four years old. He was named after his Uncle and his Uncle's partner and they meet to begin their journey together at Ohio Falls, crossing from Louisville, KY. 'Namesakes meeting near this site' There is a plaque with these facts in the paddock area of the track.

Trohn wrote:: I do not have a St Louis theory.  Personally, I think it is flat wrong. Its at Churchill Downs. The middle of 21 is the winners circle horseshoe (21 = U) Its been a long time, but that spot has never been changed. You could find out by next week. Buy a copy of the book off amazon hxxp://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... ition=used call this number Churchill Downs 700 Central Avenue Louisville, KY 40208 Main phone: 502.636.4400 Ask who the head grounds keeper is now. Send them the book and a letter explaining your theory. You would know if you were right by the following day.  People cant resist a treasure hunt.

Trohn wrote:: I do not have a St Louis theory.  Personally, I think it is flat wrong. Its at Churchill Downs. The middle of 21 is the winners circle horseshoe (21 = U) Its been a long time, but that spot has never been changed. You could find out by next week. Buy a copy of the book off amazon hxxp://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... ition=used call this number Churchill Downs 700 Central Avenue Louisville, KY 40208 Main phone: 502.636.4400 Ask who the head grounds keeper is now. Send them the book and a letter explaining your theory. You would know if you were right by the following day.  People cant resist a treasure hunt.

Trohn wrote:: I do not discount that a casque was buried in New Orleans but the verse/image pairing is not this one (verse 2, image 9). From memory, I think it is (verse 7 - Twain's Interest, and image 7 - White mask and Clock) I agree with these image/verse assignments anyway...

it does match the verse really well actually. but what about the site confirmers in the image. should be at least 3 or 4 things you can see from the casque site in the image.

maltedfalcon wrote:: You could find out by next week. Buy a copy of the book off amazon hxxp://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/ ... ition=used call this number Churchill Downs 700 Central Avenue Louisville, KY 40208 Main phone: 502.636.4400 Ask who the head grounds keeper is now. Send them the book and a letter explaining your theory. You would know if you were right by the following day.  People cant resist a treasure hunt. I can't believe you have pulled me back into this madness aof chasing a deadman's secrets. I had put this into the past years ago. There a lot of things I CAN do...  its what's follows THAT always leads to more dirt.

maltedfalcon wrote:: it does match the verse really well actually. but what about the site confirmers in the image. should be at least 3 or 4 things you can see from the casque site in the image. Have you seen my posts in Image Nine - Churchhill - Double Spires??

Unknown: I do not discount that a casque was buried in New Orleans but the verse/image pairing is not this one (verse 2, image 9) Sorry, I don't believe that's the correct pairing. It discounts something else: that Image  9 is practically the only image that has anything distinctly Canadian in it. I'd like to believe your idea, but I just can't.  I really think Verse 2 goes with NO.

cant get around that ol legeater. might look similar to a jockey but looks exactly like the lamp in montreal. you would need to find that lamp at churchill downs.

maltedfalcon wrote:: You would know if you were right by the following day. People cant resist a treasure hunt. If only that were true...I've tried contacting dozens of people and rarely received a reply. I post summaries on local treasure hunting forums, and they get ignored even there. Here are some typical examples. hxxp://scmetaldetectingclub.com/communi ... d/858.aspx hxxp://forums.neworleans.com/showthread.php?t=9783 In my experience most people don't give a flying flock about treasure hunts.  :P

Unknown: In my experience most people don't give a flying flock about treasure hunts. I'm going to agree completely. (don't faint.) If they did, these forums would be a lot larger.

What I find surprising is that this crazy old hunt seems to be the only one at Q4T with any activity. We're the last of the treasure seekers.

Bull.

I enjoyed reading Abroad in America.  It ends with a perspective from H.G. Wells on his spiritual loyalty to the America's aquiline character. It seems more likely, proof rather, that BP read and drew inspiration from this publication.  The Sarmiento quote comes in a context of his expectation that Saint Charles would be a spectacle like that of Saint Peter's in Rome, but alas, itnwas just a hotel.  The application of the exclaimation in grandeous architecture leads us to expect to find something similar or exact.  Perhaps we are to look more closely at the St. Charles hotel in NO...there was a St. charles Hotel in Portland, Oregon as well...(not that I'm going there..lol) or we are being compelled to look for some "Saint" connections like what we have when pairing the Louis Armstrong to form a "St. Louis" (street and cemetery in NO) conclusion.  It could be just a NO pointer, but that seems like a weak conclusion based on the somewhat obscure quote and given also the other NO relevant clues like "jewels abound" and the image 7 pointers.  Could be we are looking for a simple architectural similarity with a Romanesque facade and dome, whichnseems somewhat generic given that thenstyle pervades all kinds of historically significant sites. In support of my "in the middle of Basin Street" theory, I find that the #21 tomb of then Rouelle familyndoes indeed match the architecture from the photo for which the Sarmiento quote is attached.  I also like the St. Louis CEMETERY on St. Louis STREET at the Basin Street intersection looking diagonally at the St. Jude's Church's rear facade.  I think latin architectural influence is nicely supported by the Sarmiento reference.  I really think we have discovered something special here.

I've come to a final conclusion that this casque is in a spot exactly centered between four palm trees on Basin Street perpendicular between the line center along which three statues stand and the Rouelle family Tomb which peeks over the wall of the cemetery nearby.

Here's a couple diagrams to help explain the point of view:

When I pointed out that the great number of iconic lamp posts specific to Canal Street in New Orleans were very similar in shape to a standard jewel hung type earring, shecrab pointed out that I was choosing a metaphor over an actual object.  She missed the point which was very clear that the actual PLACE of Canal Street is a whole lot better than redundantly relating the first line of the verse to the city itself.  I think picture 7 does its part to pinpoint a city with it's lat/long and other dominating characteristics.  Cleveland and Chicago also relied on picture based reference to size up the town location.  When it comes to verse, each line fingers a specific detail along a path and with vantage to the treasure ground location. Verse 2, Line 1, Canal Street.

The line about the sounds of friends filling the afternoon hours makes sense to me as being about the Krewe of Zulu.  Zulu starts earlier than tye other parading Krewes.  In the afternoon hours would put them close to the end of their route.  Once again this is near St. Louis street and Armstrong Park.

Jewel = gem. Abound, meaning to be abundant. Galore, meaning abundant. Mr. Bingle's theme song: Jingle, jangle, jingle Here comes Mr. Bingle With another message from Kris Kringle Time to launch your Christmas season Maison Blanche makes Christmas pleasin' Gifts galore for you to see Each a gem from MB! It's tough to argue that the floating clockboy doesn't have the same body posture as Mr. Bingle on the parade float. I believe Maison Blanche is the place to start in New Orleans.

I've been looking over verse 2 and image 7. I thought I'd share what I've pondered. I think it involves a pretty straight path and a relatively straight forward solution. Even when presenting the map below, I recognize that there are more clues (Joan of Arch, Armstrong, Story Land, etc.) I did not speak about and neglected to put on the map. I also realize some of the statements might need explaining. But, I posted this anyway to generate some discussion. A. Walk from 678 St. Charles Ave (Lafayette Square) B. past the Parc St. Charles C. and Royal St. Charles hotels D. through the Toulouse St. intersection E. to Preservation Hall. Make a right F. and go to where Jackson Square meets Jax Brewery. G. Take the 15 stairs up into Artillery Park At this point, you see the 21 trees, or tree containers. Then proceed with the exact directions: At the place where jewels abound This is where you’ll find the gem. Fifteen rows down to the ground Washington Artillery Park In the middle of twenty-one From end to end A very complex clue: The mask on the image covers 3 numbers... 6 + 7 + 8, which equals 21 and directly links the verse to the image (think seek the columns, fence and fixture). 21 is a card game, also known as Blackjack. In this game there are “splits,” the line gives the exact definition of a split. Jacks (Jax) would be a split. Behind Washington Artillery Park, there are 21 tree containers along the Moonwalk from end to end, and 21 trees (Note: It appears the same today as in 1979. I have more than enough pics to show this, but I figured these would do). They are irregularly spaced in a straight line, and they separate the Moonwalk from the 3 train tracks running behind Washington Artillery Park. You can see that the trees once provided quite a bit of cover near those tracks (think Chicago): They are numbered below, as seen today: If these are the twenty-one, then is it "the middle of twenty-one: 1 - the exact middle of the distance from one end to the other of the 21? 2 - the middle of the eleventh container, which has 10 containers on either side of it? 3 - between the tenth and eleventh containers (21/2=10.5)?

Those containers are very convincing. probably not 3) because there are seats between each container. I like 1) because there are no lamp posts btw, you can get a good view of some of the containers using Bing street as their camera went down to the rail crossing nearby. What is the object/marker on the edge of the grass just to the west of 1) ?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: a pretty straight path and a relatively straight forward solution Well...not really. You've found 21 of something, but none of the rest of it makes any more sense than ever.  ;) (It's a nice 21 though.)

Unknown: To this day, unpredictable flooding still lifts the occasional coffin out of the ground in areas above the water table, generally considered safe from flooding...Eventually, New Orleans' graves were kept above ground, following the Spanish custom of using vaults. The walls of some cemeteries here are made of economical vaults stacked on top of one another, while wealthier families could afford the larger, ornate tombs with crypts. Just a random thought, but: Giant pole, giant step To the place the casque is kept The giant pole has to be a key to V7, wherever it is, New Orleans or otherwise. I was racking my brains thinking about giant poles and giant steps, and wondered about pole vaulting. New Orleans is notable for its vaults. (Interesting idea about the covered 6,7,8 on the clockface. Re: references to 21, V7 also has a 21 possibility in its "aces high"...)

WhiteRabbit wrote:: (Interesting idea about the covered 6,7,8 on the clockface. Re: references to 21, V7 also has a 21 possibility in its "aces high"...) The air smells sweet (Evans Candy) hxxp://www.hmdb.org/Marker.asp?Marker=54194 Don't think I haven't run through all the verses on this image (although, I'm sure the same is true for you). I just got bored and posted what I had above.

boom.

I'd like to see where/how "three stand watch" fits with this Jackson Square idea.

who knows? maybe it is confirming the 15 rows (15 seconds) maybe it is the three train tracks maybe it is the points on top of St. Louis XII Cathedral maybe it is nothing at all maybe this is 3 (III): or maybe the pole is the one aligning with the end of the cannon (center of clock), or is it aligning with the center of the wheel (outer and inner rings on clock face): whatever it is, it seems to be pretty important because it is the only number marked by two black dots (inner and outer rings): there is one black dot by the pole: the III might also represent a specific spot in the fence that is similar to the image:

I was about to ask the same thing, erexere. Perhaps only 3 of that line of trees were left in 1981/1982? That would explain it. How about the namesakes? One idea is that St. Peter Street and N. Peter Street (which coincides with Decatur St. for a stretch) intersect very close to those planters. I would call that "namesakes meeting."

Jackson Square and Jackson "Jax" Brewery, named after Andrew Jackson, are the namesakes. These places meet at Artillery Park, where "on or near this site " starts the phrasing on a placard cemented at the the top of 15 stairs. At 12 o'clock from this placard, and the cannon, is the 21 trees. The center of the clock is the back-end of the cannon (the short hour-hand), with a "J" on one side of the barrel and a backwards "J" on the other.

I get the feeling Preiss explored this area and some of Jackson makes its way into the image. I figure the word "watch" is involved in a more particular way.  Look for a "wrist" motif or something hanging from a chain like an old watch.  Something with "eye" qualities like a statue gazing.  Perhaps something only to do with being timely, like a bus stop. Could be any number of things where three things together are poised to see something eventful...or three separate things like a riddle about morning, afternoon and night... a man with a cane....there's an odd kind of sugar reference.

I noticed a connecting theme for "crowns" for this verse accompanied with image 7. At the place where jewels abound, The kind of jewels this may refer to is "crown jewels".  Crown jewels are collectively the crown and accessories adorning a sovereign.  The plurality of jewels abound suggests many sovereigns and such fits well given that the many Krewes of Mardi Gras each choose Kings and Queens to accompany their parades. The image features a clock with architectural elements referred to as ogee curves otherwise known as "crown" molding.  The moon in it's display looks like a good representation of the large white circular feature known as the Superdome sports arena which on many occasion is referenced as the crown jewel of the city of New Orleans.

Louis Armstrong - When the Saints Go Marching In, 1961 - YouTube Oh, when the saints go marching in Oh, when the saints go marching in I want to be in that number When the saints go marching in In the middle of twenty-one...

you're saying that the middle of twenty-one is the number referenced in the song? Interesting.

maltedfalcon wrote:: you're saying that the middle of twenty-one is the number referenced in the song? Interesting. Yes, it kind of dawned on me that Preiss could be going for an Saint by Louis/Saint Louis/Saint Louis approach in Song/Cemetary/Street.  Tomb No. 21 is a "container" for the Rouelle family. If you're a casque, which means you are "Round" (Rouelle in Fr.) then the funeral dirge "When The Saints Go Marchin In" may be playing as you are literally being put "in that number" 21 tomb.  Oh, that's sweet!

Do you remember that the only place we found "Where jewels abound" verbatim was in a list of 20 floats (in the middle of twenty... one)?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Do you remember that the only place we found "Where jewels abound" verbatim was in a list of 20 floats (in the middle of twenty... one)? That float was from Rex in 1906.  That is the year Comus used the theme named: The Masque of Comus.

hxxp://www.saveourcemeteries.org/images/StL1_Map.pdf

Four21, thanks for posting that.  I've been going over that count of "fifteen" tombs and I'm not sure I'm sold on the idea now that I look at it again.  It's so irregular as a layout and then I must be including Tomb #0 in my count and excluding #17 adjacent to the corner.  It really seems odd and unlikely from what you'd expect as a conclusion.  I'm really sold on the idea that Tomb #21 is the key but something that just now occured to me was to consider the line "fifteen rows down to the ground" as if it has hidden breaks: Fifteen / rows / down to the ground #15 / assorted rows / tombs Giving significance to the cemetery in general but also specifying Tomb #15 for some reason.  Looking at the listings, it shows that the family name for Tomb #15 is "Chesse".  Does that hold some kind of importance to this puzzle?  Chesse looks like a variant of Chess or Cheese.  I take some time looking into it and discover through the magic of Google that one of the first books (second actually) published in England was "The Game and Playe of Chesse" by William Caxton. I've felt strongly in the past that image 7 has some hints about chess given the checker pattern and the knight like gryffon head and a shape that looks like the profile of a chess piece when you wrap the sides of the image together for a half and half reversed image.  It's just easy to go with that interpretion but there's much more non-chess related activity to consider as well. If this was about chess, then wouldn't Paul Morphy's tomb be the best choice?  I suppose Chesse is more direct.  Morphy is Tomb #366 in Alley 15T-1. I have a few different ideas brewing here.  Setting up a chess related perspective this way seems not so functional towards directing us to a spot outside the cemetery.  If anything, it makes the McDonough statue seem like a better end result.  It is a giant chess piece after all.  The only alternative I can see is to utilize the classic white vs black theme as a way of working with Comus/Zulu.

Hey E, remember your pizza oven theory?

Omg...I have a fond memories of that theory.

An idea for why look at tomb 15 first and then 21:  15 = chess, then looking at 21 and knowing we aren't allowed to dig inside the cemetery and there's a wall intervening in the direct path to the casque, perhaps there's the idea that you are to pretend that you are a knight piece which can leap over walls and while making an L shape maneuver to capture the opponent piece, in this case being the Morazan statue.  I kinda like that logic.  The casque is at the spot where the L path turns at 90 degrees.

erexere wrote:: Giving significance to the cemetery in general but also specifying Tomb #15 for some reason.  Looking at the listings, it shows that the family name for Tomb #15 is "Chesse".  Does that hold some kind of importance to this puzzle?  Chesse looks like a variant of Chess or Cheese.  I take some time looking into it and discover through the magic of Google that one of the first books (second actually) published in England was "The Game and Playe of Chesse" by William Caxton. I've felt strongly in the past that image 7 has some hints about chess given the checker pattern and the knight like gryffon head and a shape that looks like the profile of a chess piece when you wrap the sides of the image together for a half and half reversed image. Well isn't that nice and convenient? It brings us right back to clock boy and his statue in Lafayette Square. I don't even believe I need to make the connection. See for yourselves:

The first line:  At the place where jewels abound Initially it leads us to New Orleans and the float parades, possibly specifically the 1906 Rex float "Where jewels abound". Upon locating the casque, think of a kind of jewels being a 'crown jewels' representing a king and def. of 'abound' is 'in great number'.  St. Louis Cemetery No.1.  St. Louis King of France and "No.1" is a great number.  His namesakes, the cemetery and the street meet at Basin St.

Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site Perhaps the namesakes refer back to the sovereign people. Eg it could be the intersection of two roads called Prince's St and King St, or a point where George Ave runs into Queens Park, or something. Or Philip, Henry, Louis, Dauphin etc.

or perhaps where jackson square meets jackson brewery?

At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end The format of this is similar to: Beneath the tenth stone From right to left Beneath the ninth row from the top It sounds like some kind of wall or similar as the simplest interpretation. Considering Image 7: ...it might be the number of squares across from the dragon head and the estimated number of rows.

More info on my favorite....Lafayette Square. hxxp://www.lafayette-square.org/home2 This page has a little history on the park. I find this a bit interesting since we keep coming back to Mardis Gras parades.... "Lafayette Square is across the street from Gallier Hall, the former City Hall completed in 1853, a neoclassical building designed by noted architect James Gallier Sr. The building is now used as a reception hall, a theatre, and official review stand for Mardi Gras parades." There are also quite a few pictures of the park.....mostly restoration being done post Katrina. WhiteRabbit mentioned a theory about a possible brick wall....in the first few pictures there appear to be areas of bricks inlaid into the ground which could easily be counted. Also, some way into the album, there is a pic of a man and woman sitting on a brick box (? trash can, grill ?) which I always thought to be a small brick wall in the middle of the park. I could swear there was another picture of this wall posted on these boards which included discussion about counting bricks that could match up to the 15 and 21. I really think our casque is/was here in this park. I just wish I knew more about this park when my family and I were in N.O.

New Orleans I just tried taking a fresh look at this - see what you think. At the place where jewels abound La Petit Fleur ("small flower", cf flowers in image), New Orleans Jewellers at 534 Royal St. hxxp://lapetitfleur.com/ Apparently they've been trading in the French Quarter for over 40 years, though I don't know if it was at this location in 1982. Fifteen rows down to the ground Fifteen blocks south... ...takes you past Lafayette Square with possible "clock-boy" match to the Confederate Memorial Hall at 929 Camp St. hxxp://www.confederatemuseum.com/ They have old flags and stuff...(also a chess set). In the middle of twenty-one From end to end 21 bricks: ...also another possible interpretation of the "fifteen rows" - 14 steps plus kerb. Only three stand watch Dunno - possible reference to something in the museum? As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Could refer to any gathering really. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! New Orleans (from Sarmiento quote). Gnomes admire Fays delight Dunno. The litany refers to the "Fays of France" so there's a link there, and the fays also remind me of nearby Lafayette. The namesakes meeting Near this site Junction of Lee Circle and Andrew Higgins.

New Orleans I just tried taking a fresh look at this - see what you think. At the place where jewels abound La Petit Fleur ("small flower", cf flowers in image), New Orleans Jewellers at 534 Royal St. hxxp://lapetitfleur.com/ Apparently they've been trading in the French Quarter for over 40 years, though I don't know if it was at this location in 1982. Fifteen rows down to the ground Fifteen blocks south... ...takes you past Lafayette Square with possible "clock-boy" match to the Confederate Memorial Hall at 929 Camp St. hxxp://www.confederatemuseum.com/ They have old flags and stuff...(also a chess set). In the middle of twenty-one From end to end 21 bricks: ...also another possible interpretation of the "fifteen rows" - 14 steps plus kerb. Only three stand watch Dunno - possible reference to something in the museum? As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Could refer to any gathering really. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! New Orleans (from Sarmiento quote). Gnomes admire Fays delight Dunno. The litany refers to the "Fays of France" so there's a link there, and the fays also remind me of nearby Lafayette. The namesakes meeting Near this site Junction of Lee Circle and Andrew Higgins.

There are also 15 steps on each side of the Lee monument. I initially liked Lee as a location but nothing else really fit.

Unknown: More than anything else, the personal items of Civil War soldiers come with often the most poignant stories. A set a field eating utensils inscribed “For a Good Boy,” a sewing kit called a “housewife” made to resemble a First National pattern Confederate Flag, and a chess set, carved of wood while confined to a prison camp in the north. Items such as these allow the distant past to speak. I especially liked the chess set. hxxp://www.confederatemuseum.com/galler ... f-soldiers How many places in NO are you going to see a chess set on display? Worth taking a look at anyway. I'm curious to know if the knight looks anything like the dragon/dog head.

That's a good "in the middle of 21".  Very reminiscent of the Cleveland solution.

Turquoise the Fays of France keep : stone Rare as a blue midsummer's day. Now that I've got it sorted, the crescent shaped turquise in image 7 and New Orleans' France born heritage, I may look more closely at verse 2 for location specifics. At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night ! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. Outside-the-box: Does the word "keep" from the LotJ come from a children's bedtime prayer?  Both the prayer and the verse reference where heads go for the night and both relate to the word "wake". Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep , If I shall die before I wake , I pray the Lord my soul to take. Amen My idea stems from the alternate sense of the word 'wake' as a vigil relating to a funeral.  Is the sound of friends in afternoon hours the sound of a wake? I previously referred to the use of reference to the Preservation Hall most requested and Louis Armstrong favorite: When The Saints Go Marching In.  This is a funeral dirge, basically an upbeat wake tune. Oh, when the saints go marching in Oh, when the saints go marching in I want to be in that number When the saints go marching in In the middle of twenty-one = "in that number". This brings me back to the the Fays of France keep: stone and At the place where jewels abound , both being end-of-line words, I find there's a commonality and possibly a major wordplay leap that will be hard for some to swallow.  Abound means "great in number".  I ask, what is the greatest number?  Posed as a mini-riddle, I think the answer is "No. 1".  Even though it's considered the smallest whole number, it's also used to represent the number everyone wants to be, better than the rest, or winningest.  Is the word 'stone' a play on words? stone = st.one = concatenated version of "Saint One" or "Saint Louis Cemetery No. 1". The next line "rare as a blue mindsummer's day" may be using the word 'rare' to mean 'unique' or "only one".  A midsummer's day only happens once a year?

Turquoise the Fays of France keep : stone Rare as a blue midsummer's day. Now that I've got it sorted, the crescent shaped turquise in image 7 and New Orleans' France born heritage, I may look more closely at verse 2 for location specifics. At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night ! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. Outside-the-box: Does the word "keep" from the LotJ come from a children's bedtime prayer?  Both the prayer and the verse reference where heads go for the night and both relate to the word "wake". Now I lay me down to sleep, I pray the Lord my soul to keep , If I shall die before I wake , I pray the Lord my soul to take. Amen My idea stems from the alternate sense of the word 'wake' as a vigil relating to a funeral.  Is the sound of friends in afternoon hours the sound of a wake? I previously referred to the use of reference to the Preservation Hall most requested and Louis Armstrong favorite: When The Saints Go Marching In.  This is a funeral dirge, basically an upbeat wake tune. Oh, when the saints go marching in Oh, when the saints go marching in I want to be in that number When the saints go marching in In the middle of twenty-one = "in that number". This brings me back to the the Fays of France keep: stone and At the place where jewels abound , both being end-of-line words, I find there's a commonality and possibly a major wordplay leap that will be hard for some to swallow.  Abound means "great in number".  I ask, what is the greatest number?  Posed as a mini-riddle, I think the answer is "No. 1".  Even though it's considered the smallest whole number, it's also used to represent the number everyone wants to be, better than the rest, or winningest.  Is the word 'stone' a play on words? stone = st.one = concatenated version of "Saint One" or "Saint Louis Cemetery No. 1". The next line "rare as a blue mindsummer's day" may be using the word 'rare' to mean 'unique' or "only one".  A midsummer's day only happens once a year?

Its not that I find wordplay hard to swallow,  but out of the 31 words in the prayer, why do you choose wake ?  Keep would more logically be associated with sleep as that is it's rhyming pair You chose wake , not logically and through a methodology but because it is the most likely word to fit your final solution. it seems like you came up with your solution first and then are trying hard to come up with ways to support it.

No, you are looking at some flimsy business in this latest installment.  If you pose the problem the right way you limit the possibilities.  The line about building roofs over heads for a night certainly seems like a good reference to sleeping or death.  A fadt association to the use of the word 'keep' and 'stone' in the LotJ brings the bedtime prayer easily to mind.  Inspecting that with some interest and constraint brings the word 'wake' into consideration.  If it may apply then maybe this is a score.  It one of the other words apply then please point that out.  I find the word 'wake' lands well only because it and none of the others fits the profile of having to do with a funeral or some other strong association in the image or verse. This is hypothesis no matter how you look at it.  Its flaw may be that I'm working hard to make it fit or it may be wrong in any case.  I'd like to enter something into consideration just ad long as it applies in a fun way and doesn't come from an inaccessible or too obscure source.  I think the bedtime prayer and When the Saints Go Marching In are both largely accessible. I have other ideas to add.  The jockey seen as a "floating" figure might be a clue about the parades of Mardi Gras but also something which floats, as in water, would have a 'wake' associated with it.

erexere wrote:: The next line "rare as a blue mindsummer's day" may be using the word 'rare' to mean 'unique' or "only one". Unknown: The Ides were supposed to be determined by the full moon, reflecting the lunar origin of the Roman calendar Once in a blue moon? Gnomes admire -> Roman Ides gem hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ides_of_March Seriously, looking back at this, I have to admit Lafayette looks like a good bet. Wish I could understand that stuff about Gnomes though...

Whiterabbit, that's cool.  Best anagram I've seen in awhile.

I have a new idea on the lines Gnomes admire and Fays delight.  The word admire is used to tell us we must look up at something.  Delight is synonymous with entrance or charm.  I think we must use something's doorway or entrance as a point of reference.

Let's try to expand on this idea... Ever since I started working on this hunt I always thought there was more to the gnomes and fays lines. It just seems randomly out of place. One idea I had was to take the first letters, G A and F D, and maybe find names or streets that are our "namesakes". Maybe. Who knows. I liked WhiteRabbit's ROMAN IDES GEM anagram so I started looking for possible anagrams for "fays delight". Didn't get much out of it so I started both lines from scratch. There's a million single words you can get out of both line but this is what I got using all the letters. GNOMES ADMIRE FAYS DELIGHT  =  THE GOLD FAIRY MAIDENS GEMS May be something to look into even if we just use some of these words and rearrange or anagram others. Maybe FAIR MAIDEN, GOLDEN FAIRY MAID, THE OLD MAID, THE ORLEANS MAID (Joan of Arc?), GOLDEN HAIR MAID (Cinderella? Rapunzel? Storyland?). I'm sure we need to use all the letters but these can be part of it. Need to work on this...

I expected someone to pickup on the idea that gnomes, tiny little guys, must look up at people.  Admiration is the same this ng in a different sense.  Fays, enchanting folk, entrance or charm people, hence the use of the word delight, a simple definition sense.

Unknown: Viewing galleries in front of the hall are reserved for Mardi Gras royalty forest_blight wrote:: When we get to the point where anagrams are seriously entertained as the way to find the treasure, the terrorists have already won. I recently heard from someone in New Orleans who's keeping an eye on the forum and might be taking a wander round Lafayette, so I was interested in brainstorming this one a bit. I know it's old hat but I hadn't picked up on the Gallier Hall stuff before. Is that, like, literally...? Maybe this is another connection with the " sovereign people"...? The only thing that's missing is the 15/21 connection. Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one Although it's reminiscent of "the end of ten by thirteen" or "beneath the tenth stone", perhaps we need to get a bit more creative in pinpointing a spot for this one. I'm currently thinking of trying to map the clockface onto the park and finding the position of XXI or something. Or, for instance, I'm puzzled by the arrows that seem to stretch from I to X. I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX X ...21 symbols. It's hard to resist the possibilities of anagrams, and I was thinking about "Mardi" and "admire" myself earlier, but I don't honestly think it's the way. I always remember: (I noticed there was a nearby "Lafeyette Square" sign featuring a graphic of Louisiana, the shape of which has been compared to the knight/dragon, though I don't know how long it's been there or how common such signs are.)

Unknown: Viewing galleries in front of the hall are reserved for Mardi Gras royalty forest_blight wrote:: When we get to the point where anagrams are seriously entertained as the way to find the treasure, the terrorists have already won. I recently heard from someone in New Orleans who's keeping an eye on the forum and might be taking a wander round Lafayette, so I was interested in brainstorming this one a bit. I know it's old hat but I hadn't picked up on the Gallier Hall stuff before. Is that, like, literally...? Maybe this is another connection with the "sovereign people"...? The only thing that's missing is the 15/21 connection. Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one Although it's reminiscent of "the end of ten by thirteen" or "beneath the tenth stone", perhaps we need to get a bit more creative in pinpointing a spot for this one. I'm currently thinking of trying to map the clockface onto the park and finding the position of XXI or something. Or, for instance, I'm puzzled by the arrows that seem to stretch from I to X. I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX X ...21 symbols. It's hard to resist the possibilities of anagrams, and I was thinking about "Mardi" and "admire" myself earlier, but I don't honestly think it's the way. I always remember: (I noticed there was a nearby "Lafeyette Square" sign featuring a graphic of Louisiana, the shape of which has been compared to the knight/dragon, though I don't know how long it's been there or how common such signs are.)

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Although it's reminiscent of "the end of ten by thirteen" or "beneath the tenth stone", perhaps we need to get a bit more creative in pinpointing a spot for this one. I'm currently thinking of trying to map the clockface onto the park and finding the position of XXI or something. Or, for instance, I'm puzzled by the arrows that seem to stretch from I to X. I II III IV V VI VII VIII IX X ...21 symbols. WR - I've actually been working on a "more creative" solution myself, trying not to get too creative. I've wondered if some of images are used to pinpoint the dig spots, as opposed to the verses. I'll try to post it tonight after I collect my thoughts and figure out a decent way to state it. BTW... I still like the "Education and justice" line as a possibility for Soule College (College tapped in stone) and Gallier Hall (blind lady justice), right next door to each other and across from Lafayette Square. FB - That quote is effing hilarious!

In thinking about the final lines, "the namesakes meeting / near this site" I realize this is a case of immense possibilities.  I've been content to think of it as St. Louis meets St. Louis, but I don't see that as essential to the purpose of locating the casque when other factors have already been utilized for the purpose of linking my theory to this location, so I need to reevaluate. If I'm standing in the middle of Basin St. in front of the old Cemetery and looking around for a set of useful references to pinpoint a spot, what single object might represent a "meeting of namesakes"?  Looking around I have some palm trees, light poles, street signs, the plaque and entrance to St. Louis cemetery No.1, the Francisco Morazan statue, some nearby buildings such as the steeple to St. Jude's church (but that's too distant given there's other closer options).  I've already identified the No.21 tomb as a key component through the verse.  The Sarmiento quote helps orient to the rooftop of the tomb idea.  From the Basin St. neutral ground you can see the roof peek over the wall and I think that works visually with the image which shows the semi-round turquoise below the sky and above the "wall" face of the clock.  I think the time, 12 o'clock points in the tomb's direction and the near 3 o'clock points in Morazan's direction.  I think Morazan is one of the three who stand watch.  Does the last section of verse help identify Morazan specifically?  He's more than 10 feet tall, respected, admired even, and represents a gift to New Orleans for being the gateway to North America from Central and South America, more specifically, Honduras.  Do gnomes admire Morazan because he's a tall statue?  Do fays delight because gateway = entrance?  Is Central America the meeting of North and South America, namesakes of Amerigo Vespucci?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: WR - I've actually been working on a "more creative" solution myself, trying not to get too creative... OK, I had too much fun researching and linking the theory to give it away. It's legit, but it's creative. Too many connections to write down. I think you all will have more fun figuring it out yourselves... if you enjoy some research anyways; otherwise, don't bother. That's just my two cents, well, maybe just a tad more. Let me know if you want to discuss, cause I did find an obvious (maybe too obvious) place in the middle of twenty-one where jewels abound. I think the image is one of those jewels. You'll probably find it if you look around. Interestingly (imho), just like Chicago and Cleveland, the prominent image of location is large, and directly center. I am almost certain the spot is correct.

I'm exhausted on this New Orleans site. By all means share. Or give a hint.

Deuce wrote:: I'm exhausted on this New Orleans site. By all means share. Or give a hint. I've already given you my three cents. Turn the image counterclockwise and gather the jewels! Gnomes would certainly admire you if you dared to dig. Check out the middle of the 21 jewel, and fence there: U n i  t  e d  S t a  t  e  s    o  f    A  m e  r  i  c  a 1 2 3 4 5 6  7 8 9 10 11 12  1314  15161718192021 I can hear the drums, and see them. And the St. Charles is no longer there. I would even say it's possible that the Charleston image might have been inspired by BP's visit hxxp://farm4.staticflickr.com/3500/4001884379_93649464be_z.jpg?zz=1 ... Unless I am crazy.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: I think you all will have more fun figuring it out yourselves... if you enjoy some research anyways; otherwise, don't bother....I am almost certain the spot is correct. Aw c'mon 421, the people here have researched this thing exhaustively and shared fully for years. I think we passed the cryptic hint stage some time back.

(Test post)

test

Recompiling. Line 1, jewels = something or someone precious, abound = great in number Lines 2 and 3, = find tomb No.21 amidst a row of 15 tombs Lines 4 and 5, = there are just 3 statues along the entire length of Basin street Lines 6 and 7, = festivity/merriment following the highest point of the day Lines 8 -10, = Sarmiento (Argentine), tombs Lines 11 and 12, = looking up to Morazan in recognition of the "gateway" (entrance) to North America Lines 13 and 14, = "AA meeting" symbol resonates with the Morazan seal. ---

Hirudiniforme wrote:: OK, I had too much fun researching and linking the theory to give it away. It's legit, but it's creative. Too many connections to write down. I think you all will have more fun figuring it out yourselves... if you enjoy some research anyways; otherwise, don't bother. That's just my two cents, well, maybe just a tad more. Let me know if you want to discuss, cause I did find an obvious (maybe too obvious) place in the middle of twenty-one where jewels abound. I think the image is one of those jewels. You'll probably find it if you look around. Interestingly (imho), just like Chicago and Cleveland, the prominent image of location is large, and directly center. I am almost certain the spot is correct. feel free to post the "iconic" image.

I find this association delightful: square containing circle may be hinting towards circle containing triangle. Also, book title: Abroad in America, seems like a hint for A. A.

I find this association delightful: square containing circle may be hinting towards circle containing triangle. Also, book title: Abroad in America, seems like a hint for A. A.

Hey! This is my first post here. BoingBoing posted about this hxxp://boingboing.net/2014/07/15/the-quest-to-find-12-hidden-tr.html?fk_bb and I decided to look into it. I live in New Orleans, so I can definitely help. Initially the jewel streets in Lakeview came to mind, but that seems disproven. I'm liking much of the Lafayette Square stuff. Anyone come up with anything new?

Unknown: According to tradition, Waring Carrington, a successful Charleston SC jeweler, experienced love at first sight when he saw young Martha Williams in the late 1800s. The two were married in 1890 in a celebrated society event for which 2500 invitations were sent. Fittingly, the bride's father, wealthy merchant George Williams, bestowed an incredibly beautiful wedding gift on the newlyweds . This gift, presented on a rose colored pillow, was a check for $75,000 to be used for the couple's new home at the corner of Meeting Street and South Battery, one of the most desirable locations in Charleston, SC. This gift would be generous even by today's standards in the depressed post-war South, the loving gesture was truly extraordinary. Little did George Williams know that his gift would one day become the honeymoon destination for future newlyweds seeking a romantic getaway at an exquisite Charleston bed and breakfast. In 1946, the mansion at 2 Meeting Street was purchased by Minnie Spell Carr, aunt (and great aunt) of the current owners, who established a guesthouse. The Spell family has been welcoming guests to its elegant Charleston home ever since. The guesthouse eventually became Two Meeting Street Inn. Has anyone considered Verse 2, Image 2, Charleston...? At the place where jewels abound The introduction for Charleston talks about a "jump-up". We have the butterfly jumping, and "a bound". Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! We have the lion, king of the beasts. Charleston was named after King Charles, and one of the largest parks is Hampton Park beside the Citadel...reference to Hampton Court Palace...? Hampton Park has quite a rich history involving a prison, a racetrack, a cemetery, and the origins of Memorial Day. hxxp://www.postandcourier.com/article/2 ... /305249938 The park's Wade Hampton memorial might be the mystery obelisk on the mask. Hampton Park is the green square on the map near its tip. hxxp://emergingcivilwar.com/2014/07/09/ ... harleston/ ... meeting Near this site... There's a Meeting St which runs nearby. (At its southern end is the "Two Meeting St Inn".) hxxp://www.twomeetingstreet.com/history.htm

Unknown: According to tradition, Waring Carrington, a successful Charleston SC jeweler, experienced love at first sight when he saw young Martha Williams in the late 1800s. The two were married in 1890 in a celebrated society event for which 2500 invitations were sent. Fittingly, the bride's father, wealthy merchant George Williams, bestowed an incredibly beautiful wedding gift on the newlyweds . This gift, presented on a rose colored pillow, was a check for $75,000 to be used for the couple's new home at the corner of Meeting Street and South Battery, one of the most desirable locations in Charleston, SC. This gift would be generous even by today's standards in the depressed post-war South, the loving gesture was truly extraordinary. Little did George Williams know that his gift would one day become the honeymoon destination for future newlyweds seeking a romantic getaway at an exquisite Charleston bed and breakfast. In 1946, the mansion at 2 Meeting Street was purchased by Minnie Spell Carr, aunt (and great aunt) of the current owners, who established a guesthouse. The Spell family has been welcoming guests to its elegant Charleston home ever since. The guesthouse eventually became Two Meeting Street Inn. Has anyone considered Verse 2, Image 2, Charleston...? At the place where jewels abound The introduction for Charleston talks about a "jump-up". We have the butterfly jumping, and "a bound". Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! We have the lion, king of the beasts. Charleston was named after King Charles, and one of the largest parks is Hampton Park beside the Citadel...reference to Hampton Court Palace...? Hampton Park has quite a rich history involving a prison, a racetrack, a cemetery, and the origins of Memorial Day. hxxp://www.postandcourier.com/article/2 ... /305249938 The park's Wade Hampton memorial might be the mystery obelisk on the mask. Hampton Park is the green square on the map near its tip. hxxp://emergingcivilwar.com/2014/07/09/ ... harleston/ ... meeting Near this site... There's a Meeting St which runs nearby. (At its southern end is the "Two Meeting St Inn".) hxxp://www.twomeetingstreet.com/history.htm

I'm hoping people might wish to consider an interpretation of this verse that still fits with Sarmiento but matches this verse to Image 9 (Montreal). I'd like to see what might come up regarding Image 7 (New Orleans) if we start considering alternate verses for that image. I know a lot of this has been mentioned before, but I'll try to keep some points tied in so folks don't have to dig through the archives too much. Unfortunately, Dorchester Square has been through some pretty serious renovations in recent years. That's why I'm trying to put this out just as much to demonstrate a viable alternative pairing for Verse 2 in hopes that it might open some new ideas up about Image 7 (New Orleans). At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. Here is the Sarmiento quote which directly matches Verse 2: Rather than concentrating on the fact that the St. Charles Hotel was in New Orleans, what if we concentrate on the fact that Sarmiento's originally talking about a building that was made to resemble and reminded him of St. Peter's in Rome before he was actually told it was just a hotel. This is the Cathédrale Marie-Reine-du-Monde (Mary, Queen of the World Cathedral) in Montreal. Sorry for the aged photo, but this one compares nicely to the St. Charles picture from the book. It was built to be a scale replica of St. Peter's Cathedral: To put it all on the map for some perspective, it is right in the thick of many of the other Montreal clues. Sorry for the crude map. The hash marks represent the border of the Golden Square Mile. This is important as it relates to Image 9 itself (The legeater being drawn inside a golden square, etc..). I'm happy to discuss the imagery in the Image 9 thread, but this will already be lengthy and I'm trying to keep this post focused on Verse 2. Suffice to say everything else is right there in Dorchester square. From the legeater, to the jewels, to the cathedral, they're all within the Golden Square Mile. At the place where jewels abound The Sun life building was used to house the wealth of the British Empire (including the crown jewels) during World War 2. See Operation Fish Here's the Sun Life Building overlooking Dorchester Square. You can see the dome of the Cathédrale Marie-Reine-du-Monde in the background for some perspective. This is the Belfort Lion sculpture. There are some interesting comparisons that you can make to the blob in Image 9 also. It's located in Dorchester square right across the street from the Sun Life building: It was dedicated to honor Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee. The fountain on the front has since been repaired, as well as the shields and text seen here: Here is the text on the shields. This is all of them, but the importance for the moment is the diamond, of course. Maybe a few namesakes. If you buy into "Peel" being hidden in Image 9, it pops up again here also: Here is the Boer War monument: It is significant because of the Dutch connection that ties in with Image 9, but it is also one of three human sculptures in Dorchester square. All three are standing, by the way. In the Chicago solve, "L sits" a literal sculpture of Lincoln sitting, so it makes sense to me that three stand watch could very well be literal sculptures of three men standing. This post already has a ton of images, but this link to the Dorchester Square Wiki page talks about the other two monuments. The three standing watch are the monuments for the soldier in the Boer War Memorial, Sir Wilfrid Laurier, and Robert Burns. Also, more jewels abound on the back of the Boer War Memorial: From that point, of course, you're getting into specifics, and unfortunately, Dorchester Square went through a pretty heavy facelift in recent years. The "end of ten by thirteen" were trees in the Chicago Solution, so it could easily be the same if the cask were buried in Dorchester Square. a lot of that foliage is long gone. Here's another little Dorchester Square clue which has been posted before. This is from the late 60's and I have no idea how long that was actually there, though: . Since the verse does say "near this site" , I suppose it could also indicate a Dorchester Square starting point, with the Mount Stephen Club being where the namesakes meet near the site. Then you're back to counting rows and/or steps at the Mount Stephen Club. Earlier in this thread, someone pointed out that there are 15 rows of stairs at the entrance of the Mount Stephen Club. Both locations would satisfy The Sound of friends fills the afternoon hours , be it Dorchester Square or the (former) social club. Ultimately, it boils down to whether or not you want to accept that Preiss was intentionally using the Sarmiento quote, but not to point us toward New Orleans. The majority of the lead-up to the quote itself is about being reminded of St. Peter's in Rome. I don't think it's too outrageous to think that he's talking about another building that was modeled after St. Peters, the Cathédrale Marie-Reine-du-Monde, and it is a stone's throw away from the exact match in image 9, the Legeater at the Mount Stephen Club. Maybe Verse 2 isn't an absolute lock for New Orleans. I think this scenario accommodates the Sarmiento quote nicely with other good matches to the verse.

I'm hoping people might wish to consider an interpretation of this verse that still fits with Sarmiento but matches this verse to Image 9 (Montreal). I'd like to see what might come up regarding Image 7 (New Orleans) if we start considering alternate verses for that image. I know a lot of this has been mentioned before, but I'll try to keep some points tied in so folks don't have to dig through the archives too much. Unfortunately, Dorchester Square has been through some pretty serious renovations in recent years. That's why I'm trying to put this out just as much to demonstrate a viable alternative pairing for Verse 2 in hopes that it might open some new ideas up about Image 7 (New Orleans). At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. Here is the Sarmiento quote which directly matches Verse 2: Rather than concentrating on the fact that the St. Charles Hotel was in New Orleans, what if we concentrate on the fact that Sarmiento's originally talking about a building that was made to resemble and reminded him of St. Peter's in Rome before he was actually told it was just a hotel. This is the Cathédrale Marie-Reine-du-Monde (Mary, Queen of the World Cathedral) in Montreal. Sorry for the aged photo, but this one compares nicely to the St. Charles picture from the book. It was built to be a scale replica of St. Peter's Cathedral: To put it all on the map for some perspective, it is right in the thick of many of the other Montreal clues. Sorry for the crude map. The hash marks represent the border of the Golden Square Mile. This is important as it relates to Image 9 itself (The legeater being drawn inside a golden square, etc..). I'm happy to discuss the imagery in the Image 9 thread, but this will already be lengthy and I'm trying to keep this post focused on Verse 2. Suffice to say everything else is right there in Dorchester square. From the legeater, to the jewels, to the cathedral, they're all within the Golden Square Mile. At the place where jewels abound The Sun life building was used to house the wealth of the British Empire (including the crown jewels) during World War 2. See Operation Fish Here's the Sun Life Building overlooking Dorchester Square. You can see the dome of the Cathédrale Marie-Reine-du-Monde in the background for some perspective. This is the Belfort Lion sculpture. There are some interesting comparisons that you can make to the blob in Image 9 also. It's located in Dorchester square right across the street from the Sun Life building: It was dedicated to honor Queen Victoria's Diamond Jubilee. The fountain on the front has since been repaired, as well as the shields and text seen here: Here is the text on the shields. This is all of them, but the importance for the moment is the diamond, of course. Maybe a few namesakes. If you buy into "Peel" being hidden in Image 9, it pops up again here also: Here is the Boer War monument: It is significant because of the Dutch connection that ties in with Image 9, but it is also one of three human sculptures in Dorchester square. All three are standing, by the way. In the Chicago solve, "L sits" a literal sculpture of Lincoln sitting, so it makes sense to me that three stand watch could very well be literal sculptures of three men standing. This post already has a ton of images, but this link to the Dorchester Square Wiki page talks about the other two monuments. The three standing watch are the monuments for the soldier in the Boer War Memorial, Sir Wilfrid Laurier, and Robert Burns. Also, more jewels abound on the back of the Boer War Memorial: From that point, of course, you're getting into specifics, and unfortunately, Dorchester Square went through a pretty heavy facelift in recent years. The "end of ten by thirteen" were trees in the Chicago Solution, so it could easily be the same if the cask were buried in Dorchester Square. a lot of that foliage is long gone. Here's another little Dorchester Square clue which has been posted before. This is from the late 60's and I have no idea how long that was actually there, though: . Since the verse does say "near this site" , I suppose it could also indicate a Dorchester Square starting point, with the Mount Stephen Club being where the namesakes meet near the site. Then you're back to counting rows and/or steps at the Mount Stephen Club. Earlier in this thread, someone pointed out that there are 15 rows of stairs at the entrance of the Mount Stephen Club. Both locations would satisfy The Sound of friends fills the afternoon hours , be it Dorchester Square or the (former) social club. Ultimately, it boils down to whether or not you want to accept that Preiss was intentionally using the Sarmiento quote, but not to point us toward New Orleans. The majority of the lead-up to the quote itself is about being reminded of St. Peter's in Rome. I don't think it's too outrageous to think that he's talking about another building that was modeled after St. Peters, the Cathédrale Marie-Reine-du-Monde, and it is a stone's throw away from the exact match in image 9, the Legeater at the Mount Stephen Club. Maybe Verse 2 isn't an absolute lock for New Orleans. I think this scenario accommodates the Sarmiento quote nicely with other good matches to the verse.

I agree. In my group's hunting, we've been focusing on image 7 and not paying much mind to the verse yet because I'm not fully convinced verse 2 is New Orleans. To me, finding as many landmarks in the image is paramount and then the verse will hone you in to a more specific spot.

animatedgeoff wrote:: I agree. In my group's hunting, we've been focusing on image 7 and not paying much mind to the verse yet because I'm not fully convinced verse 2 is New Orleans. To me, finding as many landmarks in the image is paramount and then the verse will hone you in to a more specific spot. take a look at wk moon theory, viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=15#p128063 as the theory put V6 with img7 somewhere maybe in V6, or img7, i explored V6 with img7 a little, i think i still have some of the notes in my secret junk file, ill look and try to put it all in order for a post, patience it may take me a few days

animatedgeoff, here are 2 posts, about EF in nola,havent checked my notes,there on a thumb drive somewhere i cant find edwin forrest was in nola viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2437&p=126831&sid=11c5bbe648a556acacd407332f2b413c#p126831 just off hand,works only if V6 goes with img 7, and the sculpture was there in 80-81 viewtopic.php?f=32&t=2437&start=30#p127500

Interesting connection, but I feel that's too deep. Chicago and Cleveland's clues were very much on the surface and didn't require historical knowledge, just looking at the surroundings. My find today I posted in the P7 thread I think solidifies P7 as New Orleans. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=740&p=128129#p128129

Deuce wrote:: Let's try to expand on this idea... Ever since I started working on this hunt I always thought there was more to the gnomes and fays lines. It just seems randomly out of place. One idea I had was to take the first letters, G A and F D, and maybe find names or streets that are our "namesakes". Maybe. Who knows. I liked WhiteRabbit's ROMAN IDES GEM anagram so I started looking for possible anagrams for "fays delight". Didn't get much out of it so I started both lines from scratch. There's a million single words you can get out of both line but this is what I got using all the letters. GNOMES ADMIRE FAYS DELIGHT  =  THE GOLD FAIRY MAIDENS GEMS May be something to look into even if we just use some of these words and rearrange or anagram others. Maybe FAIR MAIDEN, GOLDEN FAIRY MAID, THE OLD MAID, THE ORLEANS MAID (Joan of Arc?), GOLDEN HAIR MAID (Cinderella? Rapunzel? Storyland?). I'm sure we need to use all the letters but these can be part of it. Need to work on this... Unknown: Not shown: Prince Yi, Hsi Wang Mu, Shin-seen and the Dragon Unknown: ... Man, who with his weapons of forged iron had lately murdered, just for sport, what was believed to be the last, and irreplaceable, Dragon. FAYS DELIGHT I am working on ordering the immigrant nations and started using single capital letters for the countries. The map on page 10 suggests one sequence, then the passage to the New World describes the order of departure, and the arrival in the new world is another. Then there is the order from the Litany of the Jewels LOTJ Nations order: England, Celtic, Iberia, France, Germany, Lowland , Russia, Italy, Araby, Africa, Hellas, Cathay, Code: Select all 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 E S I F G L R I A  A  H  C 4 10 - 2  - 1 6 8 5 11 7 F  A ? S  ? E L I G  H R How about T for Tartary instead of R for Russia F A ? S ? E L I G H T Y and D are missing. on page 10 map it says: so Y could be Prince Yi and D the Dragon All comments welcome...

a friend has plans for mardi gras 2015, we were discussing v2 & img 7 anyway he pointed out this not sure it was ever discussed, kind of obvious when you think about it, im trying to talk him into at least probing i tried to do an img of the clock in img 7 and Gstreet map and building img, sorry didnt do well maybe you can see the alignment Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. La FAY ette S quare La FAY ette S treet https://goo.gl/maps/EJVRx behind us at other end of square is the boy https://www.google.com/maps/@29.948027, ... e5!6m1!1e1

If "in the middle of 21" had anything to do with cards, 21 is achieved by an Ace and any of either 10-J-Q-K. Same as saying only combinations of cards from that selection can make 21 and in the middle might suggest the Q, since 10-J-(Q)-K-A presents a nice middle option.

The first two lines of every verse we have solved have almost nothing to do with a specific location, sign, landmark, etc. They are usually not on the treasure path, and are just vague descriptions that get you to a state/city and sometimes a general area. We can show this to be true in a few poems. "Where M and B are cast in stone, and to Congress R is known." These lines bring us to an area, not a spot on the ground. They describe the roads and streets and nearby objects to the park, they do not necessarily bring you to a specific starting location, and none of the words are written on a sign, plaque, etc. "If Thucydides is, North of Xenophon." This gets you thinking Boston via the Walpole Quote, and the general Library area, which is not a park and not where the treasure is buried. It's nearby and fairly close. The names are written on the side of the BPL, but the first instruction is "take five steps." "Beneath Two Countries, as the road curves." This is also non specific. It takes us to a huge park and a general area where we should then start looking for the rest of the verse matches. These are not specific walking directions, they are general. "Pass two friends of Octave, in December." Refers again to point us toward a specific area. It gets us to NC, and it tells us to keep going after we hit the Wright Bros memorial, many miles farther in fact. It is not a specific walking direction, nor is it something you see on your walk to the treasure. They aren't on signs, etc. Same as the rest. So I spent a week in New Orleans, and I learned some things, and I feel very comfortable with the following interpretation of the first two lines of Verse #2 "At the place where jewels abound, fifteen rows down to the ground." The French Quarter in New Orleans is a strictly defined area that has remained mostly the same for hundreds of years. In New Orleans, the directions used by locals are not "N/E/S/W" but "Up and Down ." The French Quarter consists of exactly 15 streets laid out in a perfect grid, or rows. The 15 streets are: Canal St (1), Iberville St (2), Bienville St (3), Conti St (4), St Louis St (5), Toulouse St (6), St Peter St (7), Orleans St (8), St. Ann St (9), Dumaine St (10), St Philip St (11), Ursulines St (12), Governor Nichols St (13), Barracks St (14), Esplanade Ave (15). Those are numbered in the "down" direction, away from the River. That is it, there is no other interpretation of the French Quarter and there never has been. Considering the St. Louis Exchange Hotel was in the French Quarter, the St Louis Cathedral, is still there, and from the proper angle the horse ridden by Jackson is spot on for the Horse Head seen in Image #7, as well as the clock's general resemblance to Jackson Sq, I think it extremely likely that we can start excluding parks such as Audobon and City, and focuse intensely on the Jackson Square area. ---- Cut here for where speculation begins ---- There is are area between/behind Jackson Sq are Washington Artillery Park that is of intense interest to me, but I never got to explore this area with any real depth. The question remains, is "namesake" referring to St Louis (as the previous line is about the St Louis Hotel -> St Louis St or St Louis Cathedral) or possibly New Orleans itself? I didn't get a good picture of it, but if you are standing on Decateur St between Jackson Sq and Washington Artillery Park looking right at this sign, there is a French Quarter Visitor Center (you cannot actually see it on GMaps, they never get the angle correct, and I'm an idiot who didn't get pictures, but I'll ask a friend) that has the same pattern of Windows Hirudiniforme found on the NOMA. The square tiles. I would suggest somewhere between Jackson Square and Woldenberg Park. I understand people will continue to advance various theories, but given what we know for sure in these puzzles I think at least the first part of this is extremely, extremely conclusive. Especially consiering the links to the Hotel/St Louis name, general shape of the painting/area, and the simple fact that Preservation Hall is right there. It all lines up. From the edge of the French Quarter you can also walk directly down Esplanade Ave (which is the 15th row when navigating Down) to the Fair Grounds , which has the jockey tie in and "Fair Grounds" would be the namesake of the "Fair Folk." Which is not a new interpretation at all, but I think either has merit. But the first lines absolutely have to refer to the French Quarter, no way they don't, and they probably lead you DOWN to Esplanade.

Sarmiento wrote about the St. Charles Hotel in New Orleans, comparing it to St. Peters in the Vatican City. I think Byron Preiss, familiar with his copy of Abroad in America, noted the reference the South American statesman made while staying in New Orleans. He apropriated the quotation as a perfect means to refern to above ground tombs, some of which are quite elaborate and have roofs over those in eternal sleep. I like the idea of using a reference to an Italian structure in connection with an Italian tomb. It might be noteworthy that Bergamini, the name of Tomb No.12, may be a familhy name associated with Bergamo, Italy. WTF was Preiss thinking? Did he use a Honduran statue and an Argentinian writer in locating the French Fay's turquoise by way of Italian references?!!

Last line analysis: Near this site. = close = shut or sealed = tomb or vault

Calm down now, Mr. Seabass. Try to keep it simple. The word near is as good as the word close. Using basic definitions in a dictionary in the context of the Sarmiento quote is worth consideration. He's making a point to talk about the dome of the St. Charles Hotel. We're not sure why. I'm looking at options. A rooftop, or a vault, or a crypt are within the bounds of reason. I'm glad you feel the need to be humorous, and appreciate your criticism whenever it helps progress.

Well, if that man over there is Seabass...

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Well, if that man over there is Seabass... Make it four Boilermakers!

MrSeabass wrote:: Near this site. = close = shut or sealed = tomb or vault = Tomb Raider = Lara Croft = Angelina Jolie = Gone in 60 Seconds = Gone in One minute = minute = minutemen = watchmen = Dr. Manhattan = Manhattan project = Oppenheimer = Trinity test = Trinity = Neo = one. The treasure is obviously buried underneath a large number 1 somewhere. HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAH

Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Rows (pl.noun): a number of people or things in a more or less straight line. Could be the rows in this case pertain to a series of fifteen paces. Paces use legs. Legs go down to the ground. "In the middle of twenty-one" follows the line about fifteen rows and so a logical possibility may bring attention to the middle or place where both things meet. "From end to end," doesn't have to be a single straight line. It could be two vectors pointing in different directions like the hands of a clock. One vector is length 15 and the other is 21, both meeting in the middle at their origin. It's not that complicated.

I'm a bit new to the party, just heard about The Secret last week (it was published before I was born, by a few years.) I'm cracking away at several of the casques, but I just spent a few hours on the New Orleans casque and I think I have some ideas (not sure if they are going to contribute, I didn't read through all 45(!) pages of discussion thus far on the verse and presumed linked painting of the clock.) Jackson Square is a popular site for speculation, and I think it's spot-on. Aside from the obvious similarity between the aerial view and the clock face, there are other clues that suggest it as the correct locale. 1. Of course, there is Preiss' hint about St. Louis, which matches up with the St. Louis cathedral on one side of the square. 2. 15 rows down to the ground corresponds with the 15 steps leading up to the Moonwalk across Decatur Avenue from the square. 3. "In the middle of twenty-one, From end to end, Only three stand watch" could easily refer to the 21 doorways of the three historical buildings along Chartres St. ("On the north side of the square are three 18th-century historic buildings", wikipedia), or it could refer to the three towers on St. Louis cathedral, as others have posited. 4. The quote regarding "sovereign people" is probably the strongest hint, though there are others. From there I start picking up clues from the grandfather clock painting, because the verse does not seem to dole out exact coordinates. On the other side of Decatur from Jackson Square is a patch of pavers surrounded by an arch of stone: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Jackson+Square/@29.9570446,-90.0623761,3a,75y,53.11h,86.55t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1s-uFO1164vybY%2FU643MYWrmKI%2FAAAAAAAAnqc%2F03yW7onz7pg!2e4!3e11!6s%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2F-uFO1164vybY%2FU643MYWrmKI%2FAAAAAAAAnqc%2F03yW7onz7pg%2Fw203-h101-n-k-no%2F!7i7320!8i3660!4m2!3m1!1s0x0:0xdeff093f17dfbe8f!6m1!1e1 . You can see it embedded in the ground, with space for poles, like there used to be something else there. There was something there! At some point, probably in the late 80s, there was a fountain: https://img0.etsystatic.com/064/0/7739551/il_570xN.800924934_5s0q.jpg In 1985, this is the only image I could find. Note no fountain flowing: hxxp://byrnes.org/railfan/amtrak/image_37.jpg I don't know the date on this image, but clearly no fountain and no pavers: hxxp://www.pps.org/images/stories/nola_jacksonsquare.jpg That area was redone in 1976 to freshen up Washington Artillery Park (the area across Decatur from Jackson Square) and I think it's possible that there was turf or disturbed earth in the area of the fountain when Preiss came through. If you envision Jackson Square as the clock face, with St. Louis down by the 6 and the Mississippi up past the 12, you can see that the location of the turquoise in the painting is a near-perfect match for this little spot of earth where there was once a fountain. The moon above is a good match for the Moonwalk aka the raised walkway along the Mississippi, so named because Moon was the nickname of the mayor (?) who pushed the project through in the 1970s. The second hand pointing to 3 corresponds to the direction that the statue of Jackson is pointing, and the gray squares point to the correct latitude/longitude of Jackson Square (the 29 and the 90). If I am correct, either the casque is long gone, having been dug up and discarded in the alterations that have happened since 1981, or it's buried beneath those pavers. Sigh...

That's really interesting -- thanks gray. I didn't know about the fountain at all.

Jackson Square is worthy of attention, but I don't think BP would have been daft enough to bury a casque in soil temporarily exposed by renovation work. There's no sign of earth around the old fountain. I like the 15 steps.

Well, maybe he would not have buried it in disturbed earth, but it's worth remembering that he didn't expect these to be in the ground for more than a month or two, tops. He wasn't planning for decades. Also, it could have been turf at the time. I don't have any photos that I know are from that period (1981) for sure, only a photo from 1985. I kind of hope it's not where I think it is, because I don't think it's recoverable if it is.

Assuming Jackson Square is a match, here are some ways it could fit with the verse: "At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground" 15 steps down from Artillery Park "In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch" There are 21 door arches on the St. Louis Cathedral block--9 on Cabildo building, 3 on the cathedral, and 9 on the museum building. ( hxxp://i.imgur.com/Ea2VsvH.jpg ) The three standing watch could be the three spires of the cathedral. "As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours" Friends of the Cabildo, perhaps? Located in the Cabildo building since 1956. hxxp://www.friendsofthecabildo.org/who-we-are/ "Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!" No clue. There are no large hotels close by, and I can't imagine BP expected anyone to find an obscure quote to connect the line to the St. Charles specifically. "Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site." Could be Jax and Jackson. Could be something further up St. Peters. I think the most likely explanation is the plaque that 421 mentioned has the words "near this site" on it and where the French and Spanish soldiers met during the Civil War. ( hxxp://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/ ... illery.jpg ) It was dedicated in 1976. Might explain the 19 and why 76 is covered by the mask? With regard to the image, traveling up St. Peters would bring you past Jax, Jackson Square, the cathedral and the Friends of the Cabildo, the Le Petit Theatre du Vieux Carre (historic theater--the mask?), Preservation Hall, and to the junction of Louis Armstrong Park and St. Louis Cemetery. We could be meant to start at the park/cemetery and travel down St. Peters to Artillery Park, where the cannon may match up with the hour hand imagery. Can't think of anything at the moment that matches the clock boy or the demonic head or its placement. The gray circles and alarm/second hand could be hints to the final burial spot?

Frisco wrote:: "Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!" No clue. There are no large hotels close by, and I can't imagine BP expected anyone to find an obscure quote to connect the line to the St. Charles specifically. Do you think it's just a coincidence that he used that line word for word from the book?

It's a great line. But how could one have possibly connected it with Sarmiento or the book in 1982, years before Google and OCR? I mean, I am certainly beginning to suspect that Preiss was trying to get us to LEARN something (eww) with these hunts, but short of reading everything in the library, I think it's a long shot that someone would connect this quote with that book or Sarmiento's essays. I think it's a cool Easter egg he put in, but even if he expected us to find the quote, I think it has to be more than a NOLA marker--it either has to do with the St. Charles, which is nowhere near Artillery Park or St. Peters, or another palatial hotel.

Frisco wrote:: It's a great line. But how could one have possibly connected it with Sarmiento or the book in 1982, years before Google and OCR? I mean, I am certainly beginning to suspect that Preiss was trying to get us to LEARN something (eww) with these hunts, but short of reading everything in the library, I think it's a long shot that someone would connect this quote with that book or Sarmiento's essays. I think it's a cool Easter egg he put in, but I think it has to be more than a NOLA marker--it either has to do with the St. Charles, which is nowhere near Artillery Park or St. Peters, or another palatial hotel. Frisco how old are you? If you are over 40, think back to before the internet...people used their brains more...read books and such... It's a way different and more dumbed down society we live in today. Abroad in America: Visitors to the New Nation, 1776-1914 was both in my US History and Political Science room in high school, I don't think it was THAT obscure. Also that clue is not required for you to find the casque, but if you know it, you can say for certain he is referring to NOLA.

37. And I have no idea which books were in my high school classes, it was so long ago. I don't recall ever using books other than our textbooks in class. Did they have 30 copies of the book in your class, or just one on a bookshelf? So say that he expected us to find this book and find the quote. Do you think he only meant it to be a generic marker of the city of New Orleans?

Frisco wrote:: 37. And I have no idea which books were in my high school classes, it was so long ago. I don't recall ever using books other than our textbooks in class. Did they have 30 copies of the book in your class, or just one on a bookshelf? So say that he expected us to find this book and find the quote. Do you think he only meant it to be a generic marker of the city of New Orleans? Just 1 copy, in each classroom... I don't think he expected many people to figure it out. Is it a generic marker for NOLA...? Maybe not, I think "At the place where jewels abound" is the tie to NOLA, so he might just be trying to say "James" or "St. James" or something else. It just depends on where you are in the verse when you read it, and what the clue means... It's all about where you are when you get to that clue. That hotel is only a few blocks from the french quarter, but he might not be referencing the hotel itself...it's a puzzle :-)

Unknown: Do you think he only meant it to be a generic marker of the city of New Orleans? I do. Look at it this way. Now that we have figured out this clue, very few of us give any serious consideration to the possibility that Verse 2 might apply to another city. That's pretty black and white in a puzzle full of gray, and getting grayer with each passing year .

decibalnyc wrote:: I don't think he expected many people to figure it out. Is it a generic marker for NOLA...? Maybe not, I think "At the place where jewels abound" is the tie to NOLA, so he might just be trying to say "James" or "St. James" or something else. It just depends on where you are in the verse when you read it, and what the clue means... It's all about where you are when you get to that clue. That hotel is only a few blocks from the french quarter, but he might not be referencing the hotel itself...it's a puzzle :-) If he didn't expect people to figure it out, why put in such a strong visual clue to a house/hotel that looks like a palace? There are any number of other quotes that could refer to NOLA that wouldn't also double as visual clues. This verse is pretty short for 3 of 14 lines to be a red herring. I'm not totally sold on Jackson Square, but I do like the visual markers running down St. Peters. The palace could be the cathedral itself, I suppose, or a hotel a couple blocks away that is visible from the square/Artillery park.

Frisco wrote:: There are any number of other quotes that could refer to NOLA that wouldn't also double as visual clues. This verse is pretty short for 3 of 14 lines to be a red herring. What do you mean by double as a visual clue?

I mean that the quote evokes an image of a palace. Something that you could realistically see walking down the street of a city. Whether or not he thought we'd find the origin of quote, having it refer to a palace that didn't actually appear would be a major red herring. It seems far more likely that the quote was placed there for a reason other than to merely identify New Orleans, especially if "jewels abound" is also meant to ID the city.

Frisco wrote:: I mean that the quote evokes an image of a palace. Something that you could realistically see walking down the street of a city. Whether or not he thought we'd find the origin of quote, having it refer to a palace that didn't actually appear would be a major red herring. It seems far more likely that the quote was placed there for a reason other than to merely identify New Orleans, especially if "jewels abound" is also meant to ID the city. I can't think of any other city out of the 12 that would be the place where jewels abound, and the Abroad in America reference, as Renovator said, is a pretty good indication that V2 is for NOLA. I think we are all open to hear more discussion on this tho. I once thought that "shelter their heads for the night" was a reference to Camp and Camp St. and Fayes Delight = Laughing Faye = Lafayette...Lafayette and Camp is Lafayette Square where we find a resemblance to the boy on the clock which is only 2 blocks from the St. James Hotel. However I have no solid evidence that I can convince myself of for this location based on the verse and how these work. In the image he may identify the city using more than 1 thing...a map and a long / lat perhaps, but I don't see evidence where he does this with the Verse...usually it's just 1 line that lets you match the verse with the image. This leads me to believe that the line from Abroad could perhaps represent something else.

The fact that "jewels abound" is so strong for NOLA is what makes me think that BP using the Sarmiento quote is referring to an actual palace. Not necessarily the old St. Charles, but something else that would inspire Sarmiento's awe. Maybe it's the St. Louis Cathedral. Do they look similar, I wonder?

Back to the Artillery Park cannon that may be our P7 clock hour hand: inside the two larger circles on the hour hand look to be the numbers 6 and 1. The cannon happens to be an 1861 Parrot Rifle Cannon and it says so on one of the myriad plaques surrounding the monument

Frisco wrote:: I think the most likely explanation is the plaque that 421 mentioned has the words "near this site" on it and where the French and Spanish soldiers met during the Civil War. ( hxxp://media-cdn.tripadvisor.com/media/ ... illery.jpg ) WTF? Is that the plaque above the fifteen steps? I love that. If you consider the random sign quotes in the FOY verse, I don't think "the namesakes meeting" necessarily has to be directly related to the "near this site" quote. The namesakes could be anything really; maybe the four seasons statues in the square...? I still like these signs on Jackson Square, for the flowers, and the "keep stone" (stone keep?) from the litany, and the "Place" (Place d'Arms) where jewels abound (crown), and the arm/Armas. I'd be interested to know what that plaque on the ground behind the fence says. ...and let's not forget the "Preserved" inscription in the centre of the square. Re: the gnomes and fays, the latter could just be a French link; the "Fays of France".

...re: "Only three stand watch", bit of a stretch, but the Jackson statue is one of three. hxxp://www.kirchnerprints.com/BRONZE%20 ... ANDREW.htm For "In the middle of twenty-one", again, bit of a stretch, but I'm still interested in the possibility that it might relate to a position in an "XXI" on the clock, interpreting Jackson Square as a clockface in some way. (I think this might be where that "Plaza" sign is, but I'm not sure.)

WR, When I was working on this theory in the past I came up with this... In the middle of 21 from end to end These used to be stone, but they all existed before 2006 and 1980, each one replaced as years went on 15 rows down to the ground, meaning look down, you'll see 15 rows. If you look at the whole area, you'll notice the brickwork around the monument looks very similar to the face of the clock, with a narrower inner circle (the stone work around the garden the statue is on, and a thicker outer ring.

One problem I found with that, Decibel--the posts seem to have changed over the years. I don't know if the *number* has changed, but the arrangement has changed. These current iron bollards replaced the former wood ones in 2008 because of water and termite damage. You can see the old ones in Google Maps if you go back to 2007. Now, what *hasn't* changed, I don't think, is that Lafayette Ave. is 21 blocks long. 11 blocks one direction from the park, 9 the other, and the park would be the 21st. And Gallier Hall (across St. Charles St. from the square) has 15 steps. I'm big on Lafayette Park, and I like the idea that the walkways inspired the hour hand, but it's hard to ignore the possibility that the Artillery Park cannon may be the inspiration for the clock hands.

I have found faint markings on all of the images. It appears to show the exact location of the casque. If you look below the post on the image for Chicago you can make out a faint V underlined by and arrow. If you look at the image for the casque found in Cleveland you will find a circled cross underneath the wall where it was found. In the new Orleans picture near the dog head(or Guardian) you will also find a circled X, a cartoon of Louis Armstrong, what appears to be a river, and other drawings in that area of the picture. Maybe that is the map..it also looks like there is a drawing of the park (looks like Jackson Square) in one of the faint markings. I think the reason the author thought it would be easier is because he made the exact locations known by these really faint markings. Just a guess...

Why is that a problem? In other words, its the same general area...3 miles or so. So why is it a problem to match one thing in one area, and others in another area? We have that in Cleveland and Chicago.

I mean the problem is with "the middle of 21". There's a good possibility that there weren't 21 bollards on the St. Charles side of Lafayette Square in 1980. I haven't seen any good pictures of the park back then, though--only the Google Maps from 2007. In 2007, it doesn't really look like there are 21, though it's blurry. The current 21 iron ones are a compelling clue, and I've seen them referred to as "historically accurate" (though the source doesn't mention if it's accurate with regard to placement or style), but unless there's a picture of the old ones in 1980 somewhere that I've missed, the closest I've seen are the old wooden ones in 2007, which are not in the same locations as the iron ones placed in 2008. As for the clock hands being a cannon 3 miles away: I know that sometimes the clues are spread out, but it seems like most of the ones found further from casque sites are generally bigger things that can be considered "city clues". I don't think something small and subtle and not at all obvious would be a city clue, or far from the dig site. I feel like the smaller the clues, the closer to the casque. I suppose the puzzle could have us start at the cannon, head up past Preservation Hall on St. Peters, hang a left on Bourbon for some reason, and then end up in the general vicinity of Lafayette Square, but there's not much in the verse or image that would lead us from Artillery Park to LS, in my opinion. A more likely path to LS would be 15 steps down Gallier Hall to the middle of 21 blocks/bollards/clock boy's buttocks. If that's the case, the match for the clock hands would be something like the LS sidewalks combined with lamp posts around the square: hxxp://i.imgur.com/C1eSawm.jpg

Frisco wrote:: As for the clock hands being a cannon 3 miles away: I know that sometimes the clues are spread out, but it seems like most of the ones found further from casque sites are generally bigger things that can be considered "city clues". City Clues are things like long/lat numbers, in Milwaukee there happens to be a Rebus code, but in general, city clues would be something like a map, or a building...certainly not a cannon, those are in MANY cities. We have a map of Louisiana, and we have Lake Pontchartrain on the image, and we have 29 and 90 for coordinates. In Milwaukee we have an obvious image match on the Pabst Theater, but the treasure ground is 4 miles away from it, and it's not a building or anything like that...so that should give you some clue as to whats going on

That's exactly what I said. It sounds like you're arguing against your own points. I said it was unlikely that the cannon was a city clue, and I also said that things that aren't city clues are typically in the vicinity of the casque. Meaning that the cannon is not a likely clue for Lafayette Square. Or are there examples of minor clues in the solved images that are 3 miles away from the burial site? [edit: sorry, I see that the clue you're referring to that is 4 miles away is the Pabst theater. Of course, the Milwaukee casque hasn't been located, and a harp is not a harpsichord, so the Pabst may not be a clue, or the casque may not be far away at all. ] (for the record, I've read almost every thread on the forum, so I already have at least some clue as to what's going on)

Frisco wrote:: Or are there examples of minor clues in the solved images that are 3 miles away from the burial site? Frisco wrote:: Of course, the Milwaukee casque hasn't been located, and a harp is not a harpsichord, so the Pabst may not be a clue, or the casque may not be far away at all. ] Frisco wrote:: (for the record, I've read almost every thread on the forum, so I already have at least some clue as to what's going on) There are no minor clues, every clue has a direct purpose. Some people see things that aren't there, the clues he gives are pretty unmistakable tho, and they all serve a purpose. The bigger thing to remember is the Image won't take you to a casque...the verse will. This is true, but we know the park where it is located, also the visual is not a harp, it's this.... That's cool. I never accused you of not having a clue, also I'm not making arguments, only raising points for discussion. As far as the theory about Lafayette Square, I only did what I could to show how that Monument could be what he is talking about in the verse, and showed some similarities to the image. Do I think it's there....nope, I just did the best work I could on the area. Everything made sense except a dig spot. The statue, although in the middle of those 21 bumpers and having 15 rows of brickwork surrounding it, still didn't give a precise location enough to dig. So I left it at that.... Maybe there was something I missed.

decibalnyc wrote:: There are no minor clues, every clue has a direct purpose. Some people see things that aren't there, the clues he gives are pretty unmistakable tho, and they all serve a purpose. decibalnyc wrote:: The bigger thing to remember is the Image won't take you to a casque...the verse will. decibalnyc wrote:: This is true, but we know the park where it is located, also the visual is not a harp, it's this.... image decibalnyc wrote:: Everything made sense except a dig spot. The statue, although in the middle of those 21 bumpers and having 15 rows of brickwork surrounding it, still didn't give a precise location enough to dig. So I left it at that.... Maybe there was something I missed. By "minor", I mean smaller and getting you to a more precise location. It makes sense to have the more prominent clues be more about the general area and smaller clues being more pinpointed. I don't think that's necessarily the case with all of the casques. Getting trapped into thinking that every one of these is identical in methodology is a mistake, in my opinion. Some verses have more things that can be considered "directions", but image 7 has a lot of detail that could make it a much better map than the short verse 2 could hope to be. Maybe it's a match, and maybe the casque is close. Or maybe that's just a common pattern. I typed "square door pattern" into Google and the second match was this image . Four of those very common designs could be a match for the collar, and they could be anywhere, really. At the risk of angering the Methodology Gods, maybe that "something" is that it's not the verse that's going to get us to a precise dig spot--it's the image. But where I'm going with all of this is that unless either the verse or image somehow puts us on a path that takes us by Artillery Park on the way to Lafayette Square (directions which I have so far missed), it's unlikely that BP would have included such a strong image match to a site so far away. I'm only focusing on the cannon because it's causing me to doubt my own pet theory, which is closer to Lafayette than Jackson. It's annoying. I'm making a trip to NOLA in a couple weeks to see friends, and I feel like at least poking around with a soil probe. :p

I've somewhat eased my cannon envy. I was looking into grandfather clocks, and it looks like the hands in Image 7 contain mostly generic patterns, including the mirrored "J"s. Not that there's not anything hidden in them, but if there is, I think it's numbers.

Hello! I just recently found out about this "The secret" book and was very intrigued! Ofcourse as curious as I am I immediately started looking for clues. I read that charleston is most likely the place due to the "skull" on the picture. but that might not be relevant as I'm not updated on the latest gossip. Is charleston even relevant anymore? I bet you guys get alot of new curious people everyday who flood the forums so i apologize in advance if this is annoying. I guess i can show what i got so far: IMAGE I have no idea how old the church is so if it was built in the last 10 years this will be dismissed. Should be noted that there also is a christian cross in the lions hair so it kinda makes sense?? but you guys probably already knew that. Thanks for reading guys! - Simen

Merlot Brougham wrote:: I would respectfully disagree about the image, but I definitely am open to experimenting with alternate verses. The only other image that I don't feel is 100% rock solid in the accepted theory is Image 11, but then you have verse 3 that just screams Boston. So where do you go from there, knowing that there is a treasure in Canada? Please don't say Stanley Park. I am sold on the Quebec map in Image 9. The Golden Square Mile is absolutely huge to me. The other chatter recently about SELOY being deliberate or not reminds me that I think it would be a gigantic coincidence that there just happens to be a legeater inside of a golden square (Yes I realize it's not actually square in image 9), but it actually represents some yet to be discovered legeater in some other city that probably isn't even a port. I'm looking at you St. Louis, and yes, I subscribe to the "Port City" hypothesis for where the casks are buried I already talked about Verse 10 in connection with Image 9, but I have yet to find satisfaction in why he spells "grey" with an E. More generally speaking, and I'm just spitballing here, but I've always had a nagging feeling about the "simple roots" being a hint that it's buried in a Square. Be it Dorchester, or Lafayette or otherwise. The fact that Image 9 relies heavily on the checkerboard (square) patterns and uses the golden square to feature the Legeater, telling us to look within the Golden Square Mile once we arrive at Montreal.... I don't know, that's quite a run on sentence. But it reminds me of the "Brush and Music, Hush" technique. You're not literally looking for a brush, just like you aren't literally looking for a "root", it's just generalizing the local geography and telling us it's buried in some municipal town square somewhere. Again, just kind of brainstorming so I apologize if that doesn't make sense. I also find myself coming back to the Sarmiento quote from time to time. How do we feel about Preiss' intentions on this one? Did he really expect an early 80's crowd to find that, figure it out and know that it was a quote by Sarmiento referring to the Hotel in New Orleans, thus matching the verse and image? Or were we supposed to take it at face value and extrapolate the "sovereign people" to be a hint at the Quebecois? I mentioned it recently, but the Cathédrale Marie-Reine-du-Monde (On Dorchester Square, within the Golden Square Mile in Montreal) is also a scale model of St. Peter's Cathedral, just as the St. Charles Exchange Hotel which Sarmiento is referring to in New Orelans. I have trouble with the idea that Preiss would ask us to go that far in the early 80's to find his hint that it is New Orleans based on that quote. Maybe I'm wrong. Take it or leave it, just a little stream of consciousness there. And a more general comment for all, with no intention to piss in anyone's Corn Flakes. I'm disheartened by a lot of the recent speculation about connecting the story to the treasure location. Preiss said in no uncertain terms, as I understand it, that the only things that are important to find a cask are the verses and the images. Nothing in the rest of the book is valid or should be used to construe direction in finding treasure. I'm putting this comment by Merlot here, instead of where it was (I believe it was in the Image 9 thread), to keep things organized, and because I am OCD. The Verse reads, "Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!" There was something known as the Quebec Sovereignty Movement, which was very popular in the years before BP buried the treasures (google it). Basically, there was a political party which wanted Quebec to declare its independence from Canada, and it nearly succeeded. I believe the fight is still going on, but it was at its peak in the late 1970s. So, the "Here is a sovereign people" line could refer to Quebec, I agree. The 2nd part, "Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!" could just be referring to any grandiose hotel. So, I agree with Merlot that it could very well be referring to that hotel in Montreal which looks like a cathedral. I suppose one interpretation of BP using this quote from Abroad in America, is that he NEVER intended that anyone find out where he got this quote from, and that he was just borrowing it because it was a very cryptic and clever way of referring to a hotel. Now, I am not eliminating New Orleans either, but I am at a loss to explain why New Orleans citizens would be considered a "sovereign people." Louisiana is a bit weird, since it uses Civil Law instead of the Common Law, like the other 49 states, but I wouldn't go so far as to call it an independent nation. The Sarmiento quote is apparently the only thing which strongly ties this verse to New Orleans. Anyone have any thoughts on why Sarmiento would be calling the New Orleans people "sovereign"?

My theory? Mardi Gras parade royalty.

Egbert wrote:: "Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night!" Anyone have any thoughts on why Sarmiento would be calling the New Orleans people "sovereign"? Perhaps just poetic license; this hotel's like a palace, these people are like Kings. Or maybe "sovereign people" means people who had a King...I'm thinking maybe the French did and the Argentinians didn't.

Oh, why Sarmiento referred to them as "sovereign people". Well, he fell in love with America. Maybe it was just poetic license, or maybe he saw Americans as kings and queens in comparison to the dictatorship in Argentina he fled from. He had this to say about Americans: "The American is a man with a home or the certainty of having one, a man beyond the clutch of hunger or desperation, a man with hopes for the future as bright as the imagination can invent, a man with political sentiments and needs. He is, in short, master of himself, with a spirit elevated by education and a sense of his own dignity."

Oh, why Sarmiento referred to them as " sovereign people". Well, he fell in love with America. Maybe it was just poetic license, or maybe he saw Americans as kings and queens in comparison to the dictatorship in Argentina he fled from. He had this to say about Americans: "The American is a man with a home or the certainty of having one, a man beyond the clutch of hunger or desperation, a man with hopes for the future as bright as the imagination can invent, a man with political sentiments and needs. He is, in short, master of himself, with a spirit elevated by education and a sense of his own dignity."

Something interesting. St. Peters started being built during the reign of King Louis XII. The Americas became the namesakes of Amerigo Vespucci also at that time.

I've misplaced my notes, but i remember finding a story about an ice palace, i think it was in Montreal, a palace made of ice and built to last for only one night. (Whether or not people rested their heads there was not in my notes.)

Egbert wrote:: So, I agree with Merlot that it could very well be referring to that hotel in Montreal which looks like a cathedral. I suppose one interpretation of BP using this quote from Abroad in America, is that he NEVER intended that anyone find out where he got this quote from, and that he was just borrowing it because it was a very cryptic and clever way of referring to a hotel. Minor Correction here. The connection being made is as follows. When Sarmiento was in New Orleans he saw a structure that reminded him of St. Peter's Cathedral in Rome and thus his quote. It turned out to be the St. Charles Exchange Hotel in New Orelans. The Cathédrale Marie-Reine-du-Monde (Mary, Queen of the World Cathedral), in Montreal on Dorchester Square, is a scale replica of St. Peter's Cathedral in Rome. Another potential connection to the verse for Image 9 would be that "At the Place Where Jewels Abound" may be the Sun Life Building on Dorchester Square which housed the British Crown Jewels during World War II, or could be a cheeky reference to the fact that multiple statues in Dorchester Square feature the word "Diamond" on them. I can dig this up and repost if there's interest in that angle.

At the place where jewels abound - Refers to the Sunlife Building which borders Dorchester Sq on Metcalfe St. It is well known that during WWII the British Crown Jewels as well as gold reserves for several European countries were stored here for safekeeping. Fifteen rows down to the ground - While the Sunlife Building is in fact 26 stories tall, you can only count 15 rows down to the ground, where you would be standing. See pic : hxxp://imgur.com/W3RPt2v In the middle of twenty-one From end to end - Again, Sunlife. When you stand at the entrance to the building (facing Dorchester Sq), you are standing in the middle 21 columns of windows. (There are actual Romanesque columns on the building, but they do not run "from end to end"). The columns of windows do run from end to end. (Notice we are counting rows of squares when counting the 15 rows and 21 columns. This may be why checkerboards are stressed in Image 9). Only three stand watch - There are only three human statues in Dorchester Square: Prime Minister Laurier, Scottish poet Robbie Burns, and the soldier restraining his horse on the Boer War Monument. As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours -People enjoying Dorchester/Dominion Sq. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! - Windsor Hotel, located on Peel St. opposite the Sunlife Building, which also borders Dorchester Sq. The name of Windsor is sovereign as the House of Windsor is the royal house of the UK as well as the Commonwealth (including Canada). The Windsor Hotel itself was lavish and enormous (palatial) before 1957 when it was extensively damaged. It was literally a host to royalty, King George VI and Elizabeth famously stayed here on their royal tour in 1939. The term "sovereign people" can also signify the Square's former name of Dominion Square, as dominion means "sovereignty or the territory of a sovereign or government" Gnomes admire Fays delight - General knowledge says gnomes live in gardens, fairies live in trees. This is not a specific statement. There are trees and a flower bed in Dorchester Sq. Old pictures show there has always been a large ring shaped flower bed around the Boer War Monument. The namesakes meeting Near this site - Namesakes of Windsor? There is a Victoria fountain in Dorchester Sq. Queen Victoria was a member of the House of Windsor. She had the name before the Hotel Windsor was built, so is the hotel her namesake? Again, Dorchester was called Dominion Square in 1980. Possibly he is referring to how Windsor is a namesake of Dominion. It might not be important. Verse 2 seems to point to Dorchester Sq, and even gives a general line to follow (the front entrance of the Sunlife). If you follow that line across the park, it will lead you across the Boer War Monument and on to the Windsor. The precise location on where to dig may be given by the "X" diagram on Image 9, as that symbol has not led to a physical location thus far. It seems to read PX7. This may refer to the shape of the paths in Dorchester Sq., the "P" may stand for pillar (on the Sunlife building). "P" may stand for Peel Street.

At the place where jewels abound - Refers to the Sunlife Building which borders Dorchester Sq on Metcalfe St. It is well known that during WWII the British Crown Jewels as well as gold reserves for several European countries were stored here for safekeeping. Fifteen rows down to the ground - While the Sunlife Building is in fact 26 stories tall, you can only count 15 rows down to the ground, where you would be standing. See pic : hxxp://imgur.com/W3RPt2v In the middle of twenty-one From end to end - Again, Sunlife. When you stand at the entrance to the building (facing Dorchester Sq), you are standing in the middle 21 columns of windows. (There are actual Romanesque columns on the building, but they do not run "from end to end"). The columns of windows do run from end to end. (Notice we are counting rows of squares when counting the 15 rows and 21 columns. This may be why checkerboards are stressed in Image 9). Only three stand watch - There are only three human statues in Dorchester Square: Prime Minister Laurier, Scottish poet Robbie Burns, and the soldier restraining his horse on the Boer War Monument. As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours -People enjoying Dorchester/Dominion Sq. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! - Windsor Hotel, located on Peel St. opposite the Sunlife Building, which also borders Dorchester Sq. The name of Windsor is sovereign as the House of Windsor is the royal house of the UK as well as the Commonwealth (including Canada). The Windsor Hotel itself was lavish and enormous (palatial) before 1957 when it was extensively damaged. It was literally a host to royalty, King George VI and Elizabeth famously stayed here on their royal tour in 1939. The term " sovereign people" can also signify the Square's former name of Dominion Square, as dominion means "sovereignty or the territory of a sovereign or government" Gnomes admire Fays delight - General knowledge says gnomes live in gardens, fairies live in trees. This is not a specific statement. There are trees and a flower bed in Dorchester Sq. Old pictures show there has always been a large ring shaped flower bed around the Boer War Monument. The namesakes meeting Near this site - Namesakes of Windsor? There is a Victoria fountain in Dorchester Sq. Queen Victoria was a member of the House of Windsor. She had the name before the Hotel Windsor was built, so is the hotel her namesake? Again, Dorchester was called Dominion Square in 1980. Possibly he is referring to how Windsor is a namesake of Dominion. It might not be important. Verse 2 seems to point to Dorchester Sq, and even gives a general line to follow (the front entrance of the Sunlife). If you follow that line across the park, it will lead you across the Boer War Monument and on to the Windsor. The precise location on where to dig may be given by the "X" diagram on Image 9, as that symbol has not led to a physical location thus far. It seems to read PX7. This may refer to the shape of the paths in Dorchester Sq., the "P" may stand for pillar (on the Sunlife building). "P" may stand for Peel Street.

The internet tells us that the St. Louis Cemetery No.1 was the replacement for the previous St. Peter Cemetery (c.1780), which was located in the area bound by N. Rampart, Burgundy, Toulouse and St. Peter streets. Other than the Sarmiento quote, things relating to St. Peter would be the location of Preservation Hall and the mention of a midsummer's day in the LotJ (St. Peters day is June 29th).

Hello, I posted here over 24 hours ago and it never showed up. My apologies if this is an epic repeat. Again and again Image 9 takes me to Montreal, Dorchester Park specifically. I applied Verse 2 instead of Verse 5 and finally got somewhere. Here's my album regarding Image 9: hxxp://imgur.com/a/6V7Xb At the place where jewels abound - Refers to the Sunlife Building which borders Dorchester Sq on Metcalfe St. It is well known that during WWII the British Crown Jewels as well as gold reserves for several European countries were stored here for safekeeping. Fifteen rows down to the ground - While the Sunlife Building is in fact 26 stories tall, you can only count 15 rows down to the ground, where you would be standing. See pic: hxxp://imgur.com/W3RPt2v In the middle of twenty-one From end to end - Again, Sunlife. When you stand at the entrance to the building (facing Dorchester Sq), you are standing in the middle 21 columns of windows. (There are actual Romanesque columns on the building, but they do not run "from end to end"). The columns of windows do run from end to end. (Notice we are counting rows of squares when counting the 15 rows and 21 columns. This may be why checkerboards are stressed in Image 9). Only three stand watch - There are only three human statues in Dorchester Square: Prime Minister Laurier, Scottish poet Robbie Burns, and the soldier restraining his horse on the Boer War Monument. As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours -People enjoying Dorchester/Dominion Sq. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! - Windsor Hotel, located on Peel St. opposite the Sunlife Building, which also borders Dorchester Sq. The name of Windsor is sovereign as the House of Windsor is the royal house of the UK as well as the Commonwealth (including Canada). The Windsor Hotel itself was lavish and enormous (palatial) before 1957 when it was extensively damaged. It was literally a host to royalty, King George VI and Elizabeth famously stayed here on their royal tour in 1939. The term " sovereign people" can also signify the Square's former name of Dominion Square, as dominion means "sovereignty or the territory of a sovereign or government" Gnomes admire Fays delight - General knowledge says gnomes live in gardens, fairies live in trees. This is not a specific statement. There are trees and a flower bed in Dorchester Sq. Old pictures show there has always been a large ring shaped flower bed around the Boer War Monument. The namesakes meeting Near this site - Namesakes of Windsor? There is a Victoria fountain in Dorchester Sq. Queen Victoria was a member of the House of Windsor. She had the name before the Hotel Windsor was built, so is the hotel her namesake? Again, Dorchester was called Dominion Square in 1980. Possibly he is referring to how Windsor is a namesake of Dominion. It might not be important. The poem seems to point to Dorchester Sq, and even gives a general line to follow (the front entrance of the Sunlife). If you follow that line across the park, it will lead you across the Boer War Monument and on to the Windsor. The precise location on where to dig may be given by the "X" diagram at H7 on Image 9, as that symbol has not led to a physical location thus far. It seems to read PX7. This may refer to the shape of the paths in Dorchester Sq., the "P" may stand for pillar (on the Sunlife building). "P" may stand for Peel Street. It may mean 7 Paces.

Hello, I posted here over 24 hours ago and it never showed up. My apologies if this is an epic repeat. Again and again Image 9 takes me to Montreal, Dorchester Park specifically. I applied Verse 2 instead of Verse 5 and finally got somewhere. Here's my album regarding Image 9: hxxp://imgur.com/a/6V7Xb At the place where jewels abound - Refers to the Sunlife Building which borders Dorchester Sq on Metcalfe St. It is well known that during WWII the British Crown Jewels as well as gold reserves for several European countries were stored here for safekeeping. Fifteen rows down to the ground - While the Sunlife Building is in fact 26 stories tall, you can only count 15 rows down to the ground, where you would be standing. See pic: hxxp://imgur.com/W3RPt2v In the middle of twenty-one From end to end - Again, Sunlife. When you stand at the entrance to the building (facing Dorchester Sq), you are standing in the middle 21 columns of windows. (There are actual Romanesque columns on the building, but they do not run "from end to end"). The columns of windows do run from end to end. (Notice we are counting rows of squares when counting the 15 rows and 21 columns. This may be why checkerboards are stressed in Image 9). Only three stand watch - There are only three human statues in Dorchester Square: Prime Minister Laurier, Scottish poet Robbie Burns, and the soldier restraining his horse on the Boer War Monument. As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours -People enjoying Dorchester/Dominion Sq. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! - Windsor Hotel, located on Peel St. opposite the Sunlife Building, which also borders Dorchester Sq. The name of Windsor is sovereign as the House of Windsor is the royal house of the UK as well as the Commonwealth (including Canada). The Windsor Hotel itself was lavish and enormous (palatial) before 1957 when it was extensively damaged. It was literally a host to royalty, King George VI and Elizabeth famously stayed here on their royal tour in 1939. The term "sovereign people" can also signify the Square's former name of Dominion Square, as dominion means "sovereignty or the territory of a sovereign or government" Gnomes admire Fays delight - General knowledge says gnomes live in gardens, fairies live in trees. This is not a specific statement. There are trees and a flower bed in Dorchester Sq. Old pictures show there has always been a large ring shaped flower bed around the Boer War Monument. The namesakes meeting Near this site - Namesakes of Windsor? There is a Victoria fountain in Dorchester Sq. Queen Victoria was a member of the House of Windsor. She had the name before the Hotel Windsor was built, so is the hotel her namesake? Again, Dorchester was called Dominion Square in 1980. Possibly he is referring to how Windsor is a namesake of Dominion. It might not be important. The poem seems to point to Dorchester Sq, and even gives a general line to follow (the front entrance of the Sunlife). If you follow that line across the park, it will lead you across the Boer War Monument and on to the Windsor. The precise location on where to dig may be given by the "X" diagram at H7 on Image 9, as that symbol has not led to a physical location thus far. It seems to read PX7. This may refer to the shape of the paths in Dorchester Sq., the "P" may stand for pillar (on the Sunlife building). "P" may stand for Peel Street. It may mean 7 Paces.

DanaSkully wrote:: At the place where jewels abound - Refers to the Sunlife Building which borders Dorchester Sq on Metcalfe St. It is well known that during WWII the British Crown Jewels as well as gold reserves for several European countries were stored here for safekeeping. Fifteen rows down to the ground - While the Sunlife Building is in fact 26 stories tall, you can only count 15 rows down to the ground, where you would be standing. See pic : hxxp://imgur.com/W3RPt2v In the middle of twenty-one From end to end - Again, Sunlife. When you stand at the entrance to the building (facing Dorchester Sq), you are standing in the middle 21 columns of windows. (There are actual Romanesque columns on the building, but they do not run "from end to end"). The columns of windows do run from end to end. (Notice we are counting rows of squares when counting the 15 rows and 21 columns. This may be why checkerboards are stressed in Image 9). Only three stand watch - There are only three human statues in Dorchester Square: Prime Minister Laurier, Scottish poet Robbie Burns, and the soldier restraining his horse on the Boer War Monument. As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours -People enjoying Dorchester/Dominion Sq. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! - Windsor Hotel, located on Peel St. opposite the Sunlife Building, which also borders Dorchester Sq. The name of Windsor is sovereign as the House of Windsor is the royal house of the UK as well as the Commonwealth (including Canada). The Windsor Hotel itself was lavish and enormous (palatial) before 1957 when it was extensively damaged. It was literally a host to royalty, King George VI and Elizabeth famously stayed here on their royal tour in 1939. The term " sovereign people" can also signify the Square's former name of Dominion Square, as dominion means "sovereignty or the territory of a sovereign or government" Gnomes admire Fays delight - General knowledge says gnomes live in gardens, fairies live in trees. This is not a specific statement. There are trees and a flower bed in Dorchester Sq. Old pictures show there has always been a large ring shaped flower bed around the Boer War Monument. The namesakes meeting Near this site - Namesakes of Windsor? There is a Victoria fountain in Dorchester Sq. Queen Victoria was a member of the House of Windsor. She had the name before the Hotel Windsor was built, so is the hotel her namesake? Again, Dorchester was called Dominion Square in 1980. Possibly he is referring to how Windsor is a namesake of Dominion. It might not be important. Verse 2 seems to point to Dorchester Sq, and even gives a general line to follow (the front entrance of the Sunlife). If you follow that line across the park, it will lead you across the Boer War Monument and on to the Windsor. The precise location on where to dig may be given by the "X" diagram on Image 9, as that symbol has not led to a physical location thus far. It seems to read PX7. This may refer to the shape of the paths in Dorchester Sq., the "P" may stand for pillar (on the Sunlife building). "P" may stand for Peel Street. I have a post here (Page 44 of this thread): viewtopic.php?f=32&t=953&start=645 It relates to what you are saying. If you haven't seen it, maybe it has some new info. I'd at least like to compare some notes. If you look at the "X" diagram in Image 9 and compare it so some overheads of the pre-rennovation, or even historical overhead maps of the diagonal sidewalks in the former Dominion square, it raises some interesting question. Why is one line of the X so much thicker than the other one? I've never made it fit to my satisfaction, but it looks a lot like some of those old overheads where the one sidewalk through the park is wider than the other. I'll try to dig up some pics to demonstrate, but if you know what i"m talking about, maybe you've noticed something similar yourself?

DanaSkully wrote:: At the place where jewels abound - Refers to the Sunlife Building which borders Dorchester Sq on Metcalfe St. It is well known that during WWII the British Crown Jewels as well as gold reserves for several European countries were stored here for safekeeping. Fifteen rows down to the ground - While the Sunlife Building is in fact 26 stories tall, you can only count 15 rows down to the ground, where you would be standing. See pic : hxxp://imgur.com/W3RPt2v In the middle of twenty-one From end to end - Again, Sunlife. When you stand at the entrance to the building (facing Dorchester Sq), you are standing in the middle 21 columns of windows. (There are actual Romanesque columns on the building, but they do not run "from end to end"). The columns of windows do run from end to end. (Notice we are counting rows of squares when counting the 15 rows and 21 columns. This may be why checkerboards are stressed in Image 9). Only three stand watch - There are only three human statues in Dorchester Square: Prime Minister Laurier, Scottish poet Robbie Burns, and the soldier restraining his horse on the Boer War Monument. As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours -People enjoying Dorchester/Dominion Sq. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! - Windsor Hotel, located on Peel St. opposite the Sunlife Building, which also borders Dorchester Sq. The name of Windsor is sovereign as the House of Windsor is the royal house of the UK as well as the Commonwealth (including Canada). The Windsor Hotel itself was lavish and enormous (palatial) before 1957 when it was extensively damaged. It was literally a host to royalty, King George VI and Elizabeth famously stayed here on their royal tour in 1939. The term "sovereign people" can also signify the Square's former name of Dominion Square, as dominion means "sovereignty or the territory of a sovereign or government" Gnomes admire Fays delight - General knowledge says gnomes live in gardens, fairies live in trees. This is not a specific statement. There are trees and a flower bed in Dorchester Sq. Old pictures show there has always been a large ring shaped flower bed around the Boer War Monument. The namesakes meeting Near this site - Namesakes of Windsor? There is a Victoria fountain in Dorchester Sq. Queen Victoria was a member of the House of Windsor. She had the name before the Hotel Windsor was built, so is the hotel her namesake? Again, Dorchester was called Dominion Square in 1980. Possibly he is referring to how Windsor is a namesake of Dominion. It might not be important. Verse 2 seems to point to Dorchester Sq, and even gives a general line to follow (the front entrance of the Sunlife). If you follow that line across the park, it will lead you across the Boer War Monument and on to the Windsor. The precise location on where to dig may be given by the "X" diagram on Image 9, as that symbol has not led to a physical location thus far. It seems to read PX7. This may refer to the shape of the paths in Dorchester Sq., the "P" may stand for pillar (on the Sunlife building). "P" may stand for Peel Street. I have a post here (Page 44 of this thread): viewtopic.php?f=32&t=953&start=645 It relates to what you are saying. If you haven't seen it, maybe it has some new info. I'd at least like to compare some notes. If you look at the "X" diagram in Image 9 and compare it so some overheads of the pre-rennovation, or even historical overhead maps of the diagonal sidewalks in the former Dominion square, it raises some interesting question. Why is one line of the X so much thicker than the other one? I've never made it fit to my satisfaction, but it looks a lot like some of those old overheads where the one sidewalk through the park is wider than the other. I'll try to dig up some pics to demonstrate, but if you know what i"m talking about, maybe you've noticed something similar yourself?

I did run across that before! I searched this forum for key words to see if anyone else had the same theory, and saw that one. I ran across these a few times, they're the 1907 plans for the park: https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Fi ... n_1907.jpg Not helpful, as the paths are the same. I still search for the meaning of that thicker line. You and I are stuck on that, huh? I mean, there are still so many possibilities. You *can* trace the P and V symbols in the paths many different ways. The P could stand for Peel, paces (steps), poet (Burns), the V could be Victoria, or it's a 7 which could mean 7th pillar, 7 paces... So yeah man, what could it be?

This all sounds pretty good, but in order for that to be right we would have to ignore the direct quote from the literary reference to the St Charles Hotel, that puts us looking in New Orleans. Do you have any on site image matches for this? Perhaps some way we can be absolutely sure that you can link this verse to Montreal? Where the jewels abound, that phrase doesn't specifically scream Montreal Canada. Maybe something similar to what we have at FOY with "the first chapter"? Or what we have in Milwaukee with the tie to Mitchell? I'm not discounting your theory, just looking for the link where you would match up the verse and image.

decibalnyc wrote:: This all sounds pretty good, but in order for that to be right we would have to ignore the direct quote from the literary reference to the St Charles Hotel, that puts us looking in New Orleans. Do you have any on site image matches for this? Perhaps some way we can be absolutely sure that you can link this verse to Montreal? Where the jewels abound, that phrase doesn't specifically scream Montreal Canada. Maybe something similar to what we have at FOY with "the first chapter"? Or what we have in Milwaukee with the tie to Mitchell? I'm not discounting your theory, just looking for the link where you would match up the verse and image. Unknown: Minor Correction here. The connection being made is as follows. When Sarmiento was in New Orleans he saw a structure that reminded him of St. Peter's Cathedral in Rome and thus his quote. It turned out to be the St. Charles Exchange Hotel in New Orelans. The Cathédrale Marie-Reine-du-Monde (Mary, Queen of the World Cathedral), in Montreal on Dorchester Square, is a scale replica of St. Peter's Cathedral in Rome. Not ignore, just a different interpretation. Merlot's quote from last page:

One thing I learned recently is that the Mayor of New Orleans when BP was burying treasure was Ernest "Dutch" Morial. Might the Gnomes (Dutch, according to Preiss' mythology) admire something named after him? I wonder if anything had been named after him by 1980. Maybe too early. Or maybe they would admire the New Orleans levees, which are very similar to the dikes of the Netherlands?

Frisco wrote:: One thing I learned recently is that the Mayor of New Orleans when BP was burying treasure was Ernest "Dutch" Morial. Might the Gnomes (Dutch, according to Preiss' mythology) admire something named after him? I wonder if anything had been named after him by 1980. Maybe too early. Or maybe they would admire the New Orleans levees, which are very similar to the dikes of the Netherlands?

I cannot for the life of me figure out how Too Close for Comfort has anything to do with what I wrote.

decibalnyc wrote:: This all sounds pretty good, but in order for that to be right we would have to ignore the direct quote from the literary reference to the St Charles Hotel, that puts us looking in New Orleans. Do you have any on site image matches for this? Perhaps some way we can be absolutely sure that you can link this verse to Montreal? Where the jewels abound, that phrase doesn't specifically scream Montreal Canada. Maybe something similar to what we have at FOY with "the first chapter"? Or what we have in Milwaukee with the tie to Mitchell? I'm not discounting your theory, just looking for the link where you would match up the verse and image. Werner Klopek wrote:: But you know how old people are, they grow so attached to things. Nope. Not a single on site match. My only angle would be this. We dug up the Sarmiento quote in the internet age. Maybe, as some have suggested, the quote was meant to be taken at face value, in which case, there is a lot of weight that could be put on Montreal. I'm not sold one way or the other and am totally open minded about this. There's no "my theory" involved, just throwing out possibilities.

Its easy to say hey this verse belongs over here contrary to popular belief. because of this one part... except ages ago we stopped looking at the verses as a single item. There are 12 casques and 12 verses. we have pretty much definitively identified the citys associated with the images and then as a whole fit the verses with the cities. So if you suggest a different verse for a city, that's fine. but then you also have to look at how that changes the verse/city layout for the other cities. if your change then requires other verses to be paired with cities where its obvious they don't fit. then your change is probably also weak.

It seems like there is a lag of 36 hours before my posts show up. Is this because I'm relatively new here? Anyway, hxxp://imgur.com/a/6V7Xb Here is an album of picture links to put Image 9 with Montreal, and here -> hxxp://imgur.com/W3RPt2v is the link to a picture counting fifteen rows down to the ground when standing in front of the Sunlife Building. And here -> hxxp://imgur.com/g0yeD1l is a picture to show you the layout, and how the Windsor borders Dorchester Sq on the other side of the Sunlife. Image 9 kept bringing me back to Montreal because of that pesky "legeater" and the hand configuration which resembled to Boer War Monument horse. Also the word "Peel" - I kept trying to brush it off but it definitely says "Peel" in the upper right hand corner. So I dutifully kept trying to make Verse 5 work. Until I remembered I saw someone say they thought Verse 2 might work. By then I'd done so much GD research on the area that it fit almost immediately. There is a Dutch connection here. In regard to Image 9, the Boer War Monument, the centerpiece of Dominion (Dorchester) Sq., commemorates the war between the British and the Boers - Dutch settlers of South Africa. Verse 2 in itself does not speak of Canada. I'm starting to believe that we can't trust any claim that "this Image goes with this Verse" unless we see for ourselves photographic proof or really accurate leads. This hunt is fun, but in the 3 months I've been on it, I see that most of us are just really in love with our own ideas. Why aren't there more actual conversations? (By the way, someone was trying to converse with me a few posts ago -- I replied but it hasn't shown up yet!) I don't want to run the risk of arguing that anyone else's ideas are wrong. I hope I am coming off as someone offering up photos to back up their theory, and I welcome any feedback.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Its easy to say hey this verse belongs over here contrary to popular belief. because of this one part... except ages ago we stopped looking at the verses as a single item. There are 12 casques and 12 verses. we have pretty much definitively identified the citys associated with the images and then as a whole fit the verses with the cities. So if you suggest a different verse for a city, that's fine. but then you also have to look at how that changes the verse/city layout for the other cities. if your change then requires other verses to be paired with cities where its obvious they don't fit. then your change is probably also weak. Very well stated, MF.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Very well stated, MF. I guess I'm not as 100% set in stone as everyone on the verses, although I agree entirely with what you say. I think things can be tweaked slightly and it doesn't make the new pairings an outright no . There are some ambiguous references that somehow everyone takes for granted now which have reasonable connections to some of the other cities. This is where I think Preiss was a little more deliberately tricky. "Seek the columns" are the columns in Image 4 rather than Image 8. Using Mark Twain to put us in San Francisco rather than somewhere along the Mississippi if that is indeed what he did. Like it or not, there are two sets of Edwin/Edwina's to work with. His "strongest tower" quote is a reference to the author and not the subject matter of the quote. The Twain Thing Granted, there are some that are unshakable, such as Verse 11, but I'll freely admit I'm not quite sure why Verse 12 is considered sacred, other than the Isle of B which wreaks havok on a lot of the NY theories. Spelling grey with an E continues to bother me. I understand Gershwin and all that, but to say this makes us 100% positive and not even entertain other options? I'm still exploring a little bit. Maybe I'm wasting time, who knows. There was some thought into where the other verses go when I was toying around with verse 2, and I wasn't completely dissatisfied with the outcome.

It's been suggested that in the middle of twenty-one could be the number 10.5 If twenty-one is thought of in 24-hour time, then that could also mean 4.5 (halfway to 9 o'clock).

The idea I'm most comfortable with relates "in the middle of twenty-one" to the 60' wide grass median on Basin street. I think Preiss counted out 21 paces (approx. 2.85' per pace). Basically, the centerline of the grass is all he's telling us with that. I'm interested in the 2.85' measurement because it may be useful in the other puzzles where paces are mentioned. 100 paces = approx 285 feet. 12 paces = approx 34 feet.

Hello everyone. I'm a new user to the forum and a new searcher in The Secret. I have a my pdf copy of the book and, due to my location, have been eyeballing the New Orleans connection to this verse. (Also thought to be a connection to Image 7) Now am I 100% certain it is New Orleans? No. But no one knows anything 100%. I do not discredit any ideas from anyone and am looking to make my own conclusions from finds. This all being said, I'm heading to New Orleans tomorrow, May 16, with the intention of doing some on the ground searching and picture taking. I am posting to ask if anyone would like pictures of anything in particular to be posted here. No guarantees, but I would gladly try to post anything I could. I have a list of things/places I will be getting pictures of, mostly of things that have even been rumored to possibly be a connection. Cheers all, and happy hunting.

Welcome to the hunt, outragedwolf. Please share whatever ideas or photos you have - hopefully we can provide some helpful input on your ideas.

I find it truly amazing that the quote in this verse is from President Sarmiento of Argentina, South American and yet nobody seems interested in the fact that three statues stand along Basin St., a President of Mexico, Venezuela, and the third is Pres of Honduras, representing the Gardens of the Americas.

Unknown: Early French colonial New Orleans was centered on what was then called the Place d'Armes (lit. "weapons' square"). Under Spanish colonial administration in the second half of the 18th century, the name was Plaza de Armas Unknown: Very impressive work esp since the book is 20 years old. I think you deserve to know that you are correct about st. Louid,but not correct about the location.thanks for all your excellent work." I just noticed something interesting about Jackson Square; dunno if it's come up before. The Louis Armstrong statue was originally unveiled there on July 4th 1976, and wasn't moved to Armstrong Park until 1980. Here's a picture of Louis being hauled upright in Jackson Square... hxxp://www.louisianadigitallibrary.org/ ... AZ/id/1905 ...and the historical background... https://books.google.co.uk/books?id=y0T ... rk&f=false Just wanted to recap some of the key points of this verse as it relates to Jackson Square. At the place where jewels abound It's a "Place"; the Place D'Armes. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jackson_S ... ew_Orleans ) (As for the jewels, the plaque includes a crown; and there's the casque of course.) In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Not yet identified. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Quotation linking the verse to New Orleans. Gnomes admire Fays delight The Fays are the French fairies named in the litany; dunno where the Gnomes come into it. The namesakes meeting Near this site "Near this site" appears on a plaque opposite the square. hxxp://openplaques.org/plaques/39428 Perhaps "the namesakes meeting" could be Louis Armstrong and St Louis Cathedral. Another of the compelling clues for this location is BP's "I think you deserve to know that you are correct about st. Louid" (sic). St Louis seems to have fallen out of favour as a casque city these days. With such good evidence for Image 9 as Montreal, Image 12 as New York, it's difficult to see where it would fit in. And remember that the tone of that note from BP was very encouraging... Surely he was trying to give a genuine, useful hint here. Given the likelihood that New Orleans is a casque city and St Louis isn't, what could be more natural than to interpret this as a hint for the cathedral? Then there's the horse's head, there's a plaque with Moon on it... ...there's the "Union must and shall be preserved" quote on Jackson's statue, and the general clock-like layout of the square... I think it's all about as good as it gets round here. I just dialled up the Plaza on Google maps for old times sake, and they've done a great job on it. You can walk all round it, and through it, now.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Ever wonder why in most other cities we try to do the same thing and end up following a path that leads to, well, a spot where nothing the verse says should exists exists? A spot where we can't really dig with any sort of certainty at all. A place Preiss is most certainly leading us to/around, but that the dig clues do not fit a bit without stretching like Armstrong. OK, so Armstrong's sojourn in Jackson is an irrelevance. Fair enough. Since you found that damn "near this site" plaque though, what do you make of it? Do you think it's the reference in this verse?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: OK, so Armstrong's sojourn in Jackson is an irrelevance. Fair enough. Since you found that damn "near this site" plaque though, what do you make of it? Do you think it's the reference in this verse? Why discount that the line might also mean "the namesakes meeting [is] near this site?" Rather than denoting a specific object (i.e., the sign), the lines could be referencing that the "namesakes meeting" is near the treasure ground, and we need to figure out what the "namesakes meeting" is, no? Is there a way to determine which of these two ways it is? Is there a third way? A fourth? Or the better question... Does it matter what those lines are referring to, and is there a way to tell if it matters? I do have thoughts on what that line means, but I'm not going to share it. All sharing it will do is give you my opinion , which might create another digspot to throw on the pile. Another digspot theory ,though, at this point, is useless. We have enough that have not yet been dug to keep us digging for a year out. We don't need to find digspots and theories, we need to find where the location of the casque is and proceed directly to that site. Then we can start exploring.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Does it matter what those lines are referring to...we need to find where the location of the casque is and proceed directly to that site. It could perhaps be argued that the verses describe items around a site, and having tied a verse to a location, all you need do is identify the specific reference that leads to a casque and you needn't worry about interpreting the rest. Is that what you're suggesting...? Like, who cares what the Milwaukee compass or the Houston fortress are; it doesn't matter. Maybe in a more contained area like Roanoke, FOY or Hermann Park you could take that approach. But New Orleans, SF, NY, Boston; it's a wide area. We don't know what the parks are yet. If you can find a verse reference that subtly pins down a particular park, that's worth a second look. We have mini quotes from plaques in other puzzles, and that's another plausible one; not as distinctive, but still characteristic. Near this site Socrates, Pindar, Apelles The first chapter By dauntless and inconquerable Hardly conclusive though, I admit.

This is beginning to sound like a useful discussion, WR. Haven't seen or been engaged in one of those on here a while... It makes me smile.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Like, who cares what the Milwaukee compass or the Houston fortress are; it doesn't matter. Maybe in a more contained area like Roanoke, FOY or Hermann Park you could take that approach. But New Orleans, SF, NY, Boston; it's a wide area. We don't know what the parks are yet. This is an interesting statement. I would agree fully.

I'm very enthusiastic about the Gardens of the Americas' three statues, a President of Venezuela, a President of Mexico, and a President of the Federal Republic of Central America. This reconciles very well with the quote by Sarmiento, "Here is the sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night!", since he was a President of Argentina.

I just can't imagine being able to bury something in the Basin Street neutral ground without drawing a lot of unwanted attention. There wouldn't be anything to shield you from the constant traffic.

You got to give the guy credit for wherever he sneakily buried the casques..

erexere wrote:: You got to give the guy credit for wherever he sneakily buried the casques.. I wouldn't call digging by the side of the road in plain view sneaky. Gutsy maybe, but not sneaky

I don't know if your point is to contest my argument about Presidents of the countries in the Americas, namesakes of Amerigo Vespucci, or if you're saying that the reason Preiss wore disguises in some cases only to select dig spots in places that were completely out of plain view. As far as I'm concerned, any place thats got dirt is up for consideration barring a place thats completely insane for obvious reasons, in a cemetery, in a beautified flower bed, completely restricted private access, etc. I think he was sneaky, but also very clear about instructions within a context that relies on understanding the verse and not just the image alone.

erexere wrote:: instructions within a context that relies on understanding the verse and not just the image alone. That's the problem I have with the Basin Street neutral ground as a dig site, it ignores the rest of the verse outside the Sarmiento quote and the "three stand watch." If you can walk me through the verse, showing how each line draws us to the final spot of Basin street I'd be willing to consider the theory. Looking at the two solved locations as well as the "near solves" we see the verse leading us along a path until we reach the final destination - I'm just not finding the contextual clues in the verse to land us on Basin street.

I post/deleted earlier. sorry. i still want to express thanks for talking about the puzzle.

erexere wrote:: I'm very enthusiastic about the Gardens of the Americas' three statues, a President of Venezuela, a President of Mexico, and a President of the Federal Republic of Central America. This reconciles very well with the quote by Sarmiento, "Here is the sovereign people who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night!", since he was a President of Argentina. can you send me a picture or a location of the statue of Saramiento? I can't find it.

tanban wrote:: can you send me a picture or a location of the statue of Saramiento? I can't find it. The quote about a sovereign people comes from President Sarmiento of Argentina. There is no statue of him on Basin street. Theres just three statues of other Residents of North, Central, and South American countries.

erexere wrote:: The quote about a sovereign people comes from President Sarmiento of Argentina. There is no statue of him on Basin street. There's just three statues of other [Pr]esidents of North, Central, and South American countries. (I corrected your typo.) I'm not sure how 3 statues of 3 leaders of 3 different countries is anything close to a match for THE sovereign people, nor how they relate to building palaces which function as shelter for a single night. My pet theory for the palaces was tied to a winter festival where an ice palace was built one night and left to melt the next day. This idea never really fit the rest of the verse.

3 leaders of different countries within the bounds of all three of the Americas represented by three and only three statues from one end of Basin street to the other end of Basin street are predominantly linked by just two lines of verse: From end to end Only three stand watch As for the three Sovereiign people quote, attributed to Sarmiento, I find it interesting to consider yet another leader of a country. Sovereignty is ALL about independence and rule. I think the utility of that quote is one matter to discuss but the fact that it was gleaned for some purpose from the President of Argentina is something to consider if contextualized by the Gardens of the Americas statue installation. Further context is supplied by the quote as it applies to St. Charles hotel being compared to St. Peter's which is in fact a burial site for St. Peter. This imho is utilized to loint us towards a cemetery environment. Basin street offers that.

What if the "3 standing watch" are 3 streets from end to end? Watching for cars because its foot traffic only. I need to go to New Orleans, I have a theory. From Wikipedia: In 1971, the pedestrian zone in the vicinity of Jackson Square was created, when three surrounding streets were closed to vehicular traffic — Chartres, St. Peter, and St. Ann.

Steph I just got back from there - I'd be happy to try and answer questions if you have them.

I was watching a Hallmark movie and they were digging up some ancient field. Anyway, someone in the movie said "we would have found the spoon a lot faster if we had a thermal energy drone." I have never heard of this before so I looked it up and found an article. Those drones are like $600 but you can get a thermal energy camera at Cabela's for $200. It might be an interesting tool to use before you dig.... https://weather.msfc.nasa.gov/archeolog ... nsing.html

Hey y'all -- I started researching this in 2014 with a few friends, and then we kind of let it slide away. I live in New Orleans and work downtown (right in the middle of Jackson and Lafayette Squares, basically) and am by these sites all the time, constantly being haunted by this damn book. I just got re-caught-up on this thread and wanna get back into it. Anyone have any other new info not posted?

animatedgeoff, it's great to have boots on the ground. "constantly being haunted by this damn book" pretty much sums up my life for the last 13 years, so I would appreciate it if you could locate and dig up a casque!

I know there's been discussion on the verse having a reference to the dome at the St. Louis Hotel in New Orleans. Richard Campanella (New Orleans Historian) tweeted this today and I thought people here might find it interesting. https://imgur.com/VGBvypo

Trohn wrote:: "And he's off -->" I can not comment on a solve that has no details. If the clues fit the solve, then that is where it is. As I said, I welcome someone to answer the questions the verse poses and present a solve. "The namesakes meeting near this site" "Give me a name Senator, just one name.  This can all be over now.  I need a name." -From end the end horse races usually had about 21 horses at the gates ...don't they? -There was a race horse named "Fay's Delight" (name sake) hxxp://www.pedigreequery.com/fayes+delight -horses wear a fly cap, to keep bugs off eyes/ears. Race horses wear blinder hoods to keep them looking forward during a race, to keep them from being distracted. (Cover their heads..)

The Étienne de Boré plaque in Audubon Park doesn't have a "near this site", but it does at least have a "this site". Would be interesting to see some pics of the surroundings.

First post, putting out a couple ideas that I haven't seen mentioned before: this line: In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Intrigued me, since the End to end part seems superfluous, so I looked into things that it could mean if it isn't just extra text. I found this street: West End Street, named after the neighborhood it's contained in And this location Both are nearby hotspots people on here have mentioned (jewel streets and shoreline respectively). I haven't seen anything that marks 21 or 15 near them unfortunately that makes it obvious. There is a building with 15 windows going down near World's End but that seems super contrived. Really interested in this one, love the Hermes Krewe, Washington Artillery Park (clock = jackson square?) and Mardi Gras theories. Hopefully it's solveable in 2017 Also something separately, when the author said the jewels' values determined how hard the puzzle was - I think what he really meant was the month of the year determined the difficulty, eg. January the easiest, December the hardest. I'm sure people have figured that one out though.

Krayz wrote:: Also something separately, when the author said the jewels' values determined how hard the puzzle was - I think what he really meant was the month of the year determined the difficulty, eg. January the easiest, December the hardest. I'm sure people have figured that one out though. Unknown: Last night one of the wiki users sent me a 1982 article about Byron Preiss and The Secret. Most of the information covered things we already know, but there was one interesting tidbit that was new to me: The differing values of the 12 gemstones are meant to reflect the differing difficulties of the 12 casques! This seems bizarre to me, because I would have thought that turquoise was the least valuable of the stones and it goes with what I think is the most difficult casque (New Orleans). But I don't have any particular knowledge of the value of gems (and I'm not sure Preiss had any knowledge about the relative difficulty of his puzzles). So let's give it a shot and see if it tells us anything. I'd like to see the original source for that quote...(not doubting it, just curious). In general, there's been a tendency for people to make simple things cryptic as this hunt continues to go unsolved, but if he said the jewels' values determined the difficulty, I expect that's what he meant; it would be logical, after all. I haven't seen a quote or the actual wording though, which makes it more ambiguous. I can't remember if it's been discussed already on this forum, but here's the original post from the Wiki. Someone suggests: Diamond - Africa / Charleston (?) Sapphire - FOY Ruby - Houston Emerald - Chicago Garnet - Roanoke Topaz - New York Aquamarine - Cleveland Peridot - Boston Pearl - San Fransisco Amethyst - Milwaukee Opal - Montreal (?) Turquoise - New Orleans

Random thought: Here is a sovereign people In the book's mythology, the "sovereign people" are the "slender, golden people", Prince Yi and his mother Hsi Wang Mu , "Queen Mother of the West". Gnomes admire / Fays delight "From impossibly distant Cathay they had travelled, bringing with them to safety, to the wonder and joy of every Fairy, what all had thought never to see again - a fire-breathing and terrible, winged and wonderful Dragon." Can't remember if anyone's looked at Image 1 / Verse 2. Should be pretty simple really...a pearl...how hard can it be? Maybe Image 1 is a representation of Hsi Wang Mu. Who build palaces Palace of Fine Arts / Palace of the Legion of Honour...?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I'd like to see the original source for that quote...(not doubting it, just curious). In general, there's been a tendency for people to make simple things cryptic as this hunt continues to go unsolved, but if he said the jewels' values determined the difficulty, I expect that's what he meant; it would be logical, after all. I haven't seen a quote or the actual wording though, which makes it more ambiguous. I can't remember if it's been discussed already on this forum, but here's the original post from the Wiki. Someone suggests: Diamond - Africa / Charleston (?) Sapphire - FOY Ruby - Houston Emerald - Chicago Garnet - Roanoke Topaz - New York Aquamarine - Cleveland Peridot - Boston Pearl - San Fransisco Amethyst - Milwaukee Opal - Montreal (?) Turquoise - New Orleans Yeah, the quote is from the wiki that you just posted - I think it was a mistake by the article's author/Preiss/wiki reader at some point. The January puzzle being easiest up to the December puzzle being the hardest just makes the most sense. Jan - Dec Roanoke Milwaukee Cleveland - SOLVED Charleston Chicago - SOLVED San Francisco Houston Boston St. Augustine Montreal - No really good leads New York City - No really good leads New Orleans - No really good leads I think that just makes the most sense, but maybe I'm wrong. I don't think it's relevant to finding anything though.

What a great find! I didn't know about that article until now. I post it here so all can see:

From page 1...

Unknown: "The stones that are worth the most will be the hardest to find," Preiss said. Meh. More double-speak from the Master. Ultimately, jewels are only worth what someone is willing to pay for them, and only Preiss knew what he paid for each stone. To the extend the above is true, it only suggests to me that he paid the least for the the jewel associated with Cleveland, since I believe that is the easiest puzzle, by far.

I have read through the entire Image 7 thread and need to go through this one for Verse 2. However, I speculated previously that due to New Orleans being at or below sea level, it is possible that the casque is buried above ground, not unlike Cleveland. This makes me think about two lines of the verse which have everyone stuck: "Gnomes admire Fays delight" Is it possible that the Gnomes would be looking up and the Fays looking down? Gnomes being tiny and Fays (fairies) being larger or in the trees?

gManTexas wrote:: This makes me think about two lines of the verse which have everyone stuck: "Gnomes admire Fays delight" Is it possible that the Gnomes would be looking up and the Fays looking down? Gnomes being tiny and Fays (fairies) being larger or in the trees? gMan, I'm going to say it like this because I know how much Erpobdelliforme likes this, ....I see the gnomes as the 3 statues (financial gnomes) in Lafayette Square Conservancy. Fay's delight is Lafayette Square and Lafayette Street.

Hi everyone, don't know if this has been put out there yet, but Audubon Park has a fountain that is at the end of 15 rows of trees (at least per the map) called Hyams Fountain. The inscription says that the lady left her jewels to the park for the benefit of children. Just throwing that out there. Also, I was thinking that the sovereign peoples line would most easily fit with a hotel named navajo manor, or cherokee castle, or something like that. A sovereign people of some kind, paired with a synonym for palace. That would not necessarily have anything to do with new orleans, but I think the obscure quote is not necessarily telling us to pair the quote to new orleans. There's no way Preiss could have expected people to track down that book pre-internet. I think he just had some obscure books that he chose to borrow from in crafting the riddles.

Could this be just crazy enough to make sense? At the place where jewels abound New Orleans, Mardi Gras Fifteen rows down to the ground New Orleans Jazz walking tour consists of 15 Jazz "row houses' and buildings running on St. Charles Avenue from Clio to Canal. https://www.nps.gov/jazz/learn/historyc ... tte-bd.pdf In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Lafayette Square is in the middle of 21 blocks from the Superdome and the Mississippi. Only three stand watch Hebert Federal Building "Flood Control" limestone sculpture hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours People coming to visit Lafayette Square Here is a sovereign people Gallier Hall is the old New Orleans City Hall and has seen many Mayors during the years that would be the Sovereign people in this verse (rulers). Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Others have stated that this is in reference to the St. Charles Hotel which no longer exists because of an excerpt listed on wiki from the book Abroad in America: visitors to the new nation . I'm more inclined to go with a building that was around while BP was standing in Lafayette Square. Their heads for the night! (with an exclamation point) refers to jail cells that would be in City Hall or perhaps the US Court of Appeals. Gnomes admire Fays delight Statues of McDonogh, Franklin and Clay are the Financial Gnomes observing Lafayette Square's Beauty. The namesakes meeting Near this site. Lafayette Street runs into Layfayette Square. There's my new take, have at it people.

MrBackstop wrote:: Could this be just crazy enough to make sense? At the place where jewels abound New Orleans, Mardi Gras Fifteen rows down to the ground New Orleans Jazz walking tour consists of 15 Jazz "row houses' and buildings running on St. Charles Avenue from Clio to Canal. https://www.nps.gov/jazz/learn/historyc ... tte-bd.pdf In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Lafayette Square is in the middle of 21 blocks from the Superdome and the Mississippi. Only three stand watch Hebert Federal Building "Flood Control" limestone sculpture hxxp://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours People coming to visit Lafayette Square Here is a sovereign people Gallier Hall is the old New Orleans City Hall and has seen many Mayors during the years that would be the Sovereign people in this verse (rulers). Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Others have stated that this is in reference to the St. Charles Hotel which no longer exists because of an excerpt listed on wiki from the book Abroad in America: visitors to the new nation . I'm more inclined to go with a building that was around while BP was standing in Lafayette Square. Their heads for the night! (with an exclamation point) refers to jail cells that would be in City Hall or perhaps the US Court of Appeals. Gnomes admire Fays delight Statues of McDonogh, Franklin and Clay are the Financial Gnomes observing Lafayette Square's Beauty. The namesakes meeting Near this site. Lafayette Street runs into Layfayette Square. There's my new take, have at it people. Not at all, this is basically what everyone is saying more or less. Right now there seems to be 2 camps. Lafayette Square and Armstrong Park. There are a few people that are somewhere on the perimeter of these two.

clarkrock7 wrote:: Hi everyone, don't know if this has been put out there yet, but Audubon Park has a fountain that is at the end of 15 rows of trees (at least per the map) called Hyams Fountain. The inscription says that the lady left her jewels to the park for the benefit of children. Just throwing that out there. Also, I was thinking that the sovereign peoples line would most easily fit with a hotel named navajo manor, or cherokee castle, or something like that. A sovereign people of some kind, paired with a synonym for palace. That would not necessarily have anything to do with new orleans, but I think the obscure quote is not necessarily telling us to pair the quote to new orleans. There's no way Preiss could have expected people to track down that book pre-internet. I think he just had some obscure books that he chose to borrow from in crafting the riddles. When I first looked at New Orleans, I expected it to be Audubon Park. It's an easy street car ride down St Charles. The fountain, the area at the entrance matches the clock face, etc. I just couldn't seem to bring it all together though. Maybe you can have better luck.

Assuming V2, there just doesn't seem a lot to get hold of. Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Could just mean New Orleans. At the place where jewels abound Might just mean the casque. As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Could be anywhere. Only three stand watch Ambiguous, but possibly one of the more helpful lines. Gnomes admire Fays delight We have the Fays of France in the litany, otherwise baffling. Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Sounds like a specific place once you've found the area. The namesakes meeting Near this site Various possibilities for namesakes. 421's "Near this site" sign near Jackson is still one of my favourite options for the last line, since other verses are known to include quotes from signs and it gives us a narrow area. Lafayette Square at least has the proximity of the St Charles Hotel going for it IIRC. Armstrong Park and Storyland have good image matches, but there's no strong correlation with the verse, though I suppose there's Armstrong "giant leap" and Jack and the Beanstalk's "giant's step". (In general, there's a lot of plaques around with "Near this site" on them, so I reckon that's potentially a useful clue whether this is NO or not. Maybe there's a plaque somewhere that describes a meeting with that wording.) So, yeah, it could be Audubon Park, but that leaves the questions, where and why. (I like quotes though.)

I do like the idea that "near this site" will be a literal match to an actual phrase on a plaque (or some other sign). The spot where you've circled the word "jewels" is less compelling as it doesn't really invoke the notion of something abounding there. I honestly woke up this morning with the phrase "the middle of twenty-one" repeating in my head. I think in a dream I was debating the formation of a single thing with twenty similar things around it (with sets of ten on either side) versus a single unique thing surrounded by 21 other things nothing like it, arranged in 3 sets of seven. I imagined something like a monument in the center of a circle with three spokes going away from it made of 7 steps on paths leading away (climbing either up or down). Maybe I need more sleep!

Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Could just mean New Orleans. Or just a a hotel Gnomes admire Fays delight We have the Fays of France in the litany, otherwise baffling. Gnomes are Dutch and jewel is the opal . The opal looks like stained glass. So maybe a building with opal like stained glass. A place that is important to Dutch and French. I don't know of any in NOLA. Perhaps Montreal. Namesakes meeting Did Lafayette ever meet Jackson in new Orleans. Maybe it's the literal spot they met in NO

Howardjthomas wrote:: Here is a sovereign people Who build palaces to shelter Their heads for a night! Could just mean New Orleans. Or just a a hote Your logic has merit. However I would argue that referencing the St Charles Hotel directly when one actually means to reference a different hotel, is the very definition of a red herring. And red herrings need to be obvious, otherwise they are just bad, intentionally misleading clues specifically designed to punish the well read. And if anything can be generally linked to Preiss' mindset when making these puZzles, its that Preiss loved the well-read

I'm now finding it hard to deny BP had known of the quote. I didn't know it was in printed copies of Bartlett . That said I'm debating what he was intending to convey with the quote. The gnome is what leads away from NO and to a hotel. I did not know of the quote when reading the verse the first few days and I thought hotel. It is a cool way to describe a hotel.

How did this go unnoticed till now. St.Mary park established in 1906 that is bound by jewels (N Diamond st and S Diamond). Before it was a park it was St.marys market established in the 1830s. It was one of many markets set up in the neutral grounds of NO. Malted could you check some historical areal not sure how much it has changed since 82 especially with the world's fair in 84. A park bound by jewels https://imgur.com/gallery/s4rDi

went back to 98 looked basically identical

Hello WhiteRabbit. Thought we could continue the discussion here. With several mentions of “gnomes” in the book, maybe we could tie it into the entire verse and possibly the casque site. I have always favored Montréal for this verse, but perhaps the text could shed some new insight on what “gnomes admire.”

Unknown: If we ordinary people keep our eyes open, we, too, can occasionally see a Tax Burden - escaping through a loophole, to join the Gnomes of Zurich. ...I'll just repost that possible connection, which is that the last entry in the Field Guide, The Tax Burden , ends with the phrase "Gnomes of Zurich". (I'm not entirely sure whether that phrase is also used for bankers in general, as opposed to the original context of Swiss bankers . *edit*, Oh yeah, that link does imply that.)

These are all great possible tie-ins for “gnomes admire.” The idea of a bank (?royal bank of Canada) being near the casque site would fit nicely with the verses. ...If only we knew where to start at ‘the place where jewels abound,’

davinci4 wrote:: These are all great possible tie-ins for “gnomes admire.” The idea of a bank (?royal bank of Canada) being near the casque site would fit nicely with the verses. ...If only we knew where to start at ‘the place where jewels abound,’ I think where jewels abound equates to where the casque is buried.

I REALLY like the geodesic gnome tie to Montreal and Buckmister's Biosphere. This has to be the gnome reference. It also fits BP kind of thinking. Geodesic domes was huge in the 70's. Great work guys.

Howardjthomas wrote:: I REALLY like the geodesic gnome tie to Montreal and Buckmister's Biosphere. This has to be the gnome reference. It also fits BP kind of thinking. Geodesic domes was huge in the 70's. Great work guys. Not finding that theory. Please elaborate.

drunknerds wrote:: Not finding that theory. Please elaborate. (...just means the Field Guide entry, here ...)

frishkie wrote:: Gnomes admire Fays delight The namesakes meeting Near this site. Lafayette Park already ‘commonly accepted’ as the verse line: “in the middle of...” was named after Marie-Joseph Paul Yves Roch Gilbert du Motier, Marquis de Lafayette and there is a sign there in the park. It would be a namesake in a way and has a connection to Fay (French) and literally in the name but not really any connection to Gnomes; that has been identified. https://www.tripadvisor.com/LocationPho ... siana.html Looking deeper New Orleans was named for Phillip II, Duke of Orléans. (New Orleans namesake) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philipp ... uke_of_Orl éans His mother was Prinzessin Elisabeth Charlotte von der Pfalz; nicknamed "Lieselotte". (German princess = Gnomes admire?) His father was Philip I, Duke of Orlèans, (of French Monarchy = Fay’s delight?) https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philippe_I,_Duke_of_Orl éans Street intersections named after Phillip II or one of his titles?

Chartres street intersects Orleans street at Jackson Square (Phillip I titles) Burbon street intersects Orleans street ( Liselottes titles) two blocks away near Preservation Hall St. Charles street (from Lafayette square, one way street though?) intersects Orleans street at the mouth of Jackson square though the name changes to Royal street at Canal street. This could fit for anyone thinking Jackson square holds the casque.

Unknown: This could fit for anyone thinking Jackson square holds the casque. Just about every park in New Orleans is represented in the Image. And depending on what you use for the "Iconic", you can get to every one of those parks using some variation of the "Iconic to Park (or Dig Spot) theory. It's a real problem if you are hoping to narrow down the parks in play. And it's a non starter if we don't even need a park anymore.

I was saying exactly that. If you hold to the Jackson square ‘iconic path’ this supports that theory. From Lafayette square take St. Charles (wrong way) to Jackson square where Philip II namesake titles intersect. Orleans/chartres/bourbon streets Just pointing out his heritage is a possible fit for gnome and fay.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Just about every park in New Orleans is represented in the Image. And depending on what you use for the "Iconic", you can get to every one of those parks using some variation of the "Iconic to Park (or Dig Spot) theory. It's a real problem if you are hoping to narrow down the parks in play. And it's a non starter if we don't even need a park anymore. Yes it seems totally impossible to figure out.

Unknown: Yes it seems totally impossible to figure out. It's impossible because it is arbitrary. There are just too many variables. I can start anywhere. I can turn anywhere. I can finish anywhere. We aren't even confined to parks according to this latest example, because that would put us in Lafayette Park. And that's not where the junk was found. And no matter where I start, turn, and where I finish, I can find things that match something in the Image. For example, I can start at Armstrong, pass Preservation Hall, and end up at Jackson Square (shown in the Image) or proceed to Artillery Square (Fifteen Rows...), or even to the Moonwalk (also shown in the Image). Where I can find large planters (also shown in the Image) all in a row. Care to guess how many there were?

I would tend to go by the verse for the instructions to find the casque site like the two known solves did. In Milwaukee city hall wasn’t anywhere near Lake park or the University where the three stories of Mitchell are, not to be confused with the Mitchell building that is near Milwaukee’s city hall. Verse instructions and waypoints Way point 1: ? Diamond streets (St Mary’s Park) its fifteen streets from Jackson square. Was it the same in the 80’s? At the place where jewels abound Fifteen rows down to the ground Waypoint 2: Lafayette Park ( this indicates BP was using a city street map, reinforces 15 rows?) In the middle of twenty-one From end to end Only three stand watch Way point 3: ? Some place between Layfayette square and where the St. Charles hotel stood?) As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours Waypoint 4: St. Charles Hotel (? No longer there but I think it was on the corner of St. Louis st. and Royal street(St Charles across Canal st.) Waypoint 5: intersection of Burbon/Chartres/Orleans streets (titles of Philip II of whom New Orleans named after) Gnomes admire (only son of German Princess) Fays delight (only living son/heir to French monarch) The namesakes meeting Near this site As we learned from the Milwaukee solve the icons in the picture doesn’t necessarily have to represented along the treasures path. That being said the Mcdonogh statue in Lafayette square confirms waypoint 2, the ‘Preservation’ and ‘horse head’could confirm Waypoint 5, as well as Jackson square is shaped Somewhat like a clocks face. But what could the ‘19’ clock hands and arrows elude to?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: It's impossible because it is arbitrary. There are just too many variables. I can start anywhere. I can turn anywhere. I can finish anywhere. We aren't even confined to parks according to this latest example, because that would put us in Lafayette Park. And that's not where the junk was found. And no matter where I start, turn, and where I finish, I can find things that match something in the Image. For example, I can start at Armstrong, pass Preservation Hall, and end up at Jackson Square (shown in the Image) or proceed to Artillery Square (Fifteen Rows...), or even to the Moonwalk (also shown in the Image). Where I can find large planters (also shown in the Image) all in a row. Care to guess how many there were? 21, yes been there done that. Yes you keep getting hung up on it's not perfect, However it it was perfect, all the casques would have been found. instead look at it as a tool, a methodology to check possible casque sites. if you arrive at a casque site. by the normal method. That is recognizing from the verse as a possible location or by recognizing site confirmers in the image. Then use this tool to see if you can create the path. If you can that's a plus in your theories column,, if you can't that's a minus. We would all love definitive methods, but at this point they elude us. I see you are really thrown by the possibility things aren't always in parks, yet, there was never anything that said they had to be in parks, it seems that way maybe we should just stretch the definition of parks to public property.

My interpretation of these verse lines are as follows as my dig spot is in Lafayette Square. Way point 1: ? Diamond streets (St Mary’s Park) its fifteen streets from Jackson square. Was it the same in the 80’s? At the place where jewels abound - St. Charles Ave parade route Fifteen rows down to the ground - 15 Row houses on the Jazz Walking tour in the area around Lafayette Square Waypoint 2: Lafayette Park ( this indicates BP was using a city street map, reinforces 15 rows?) In the middle of twenty-one From end to end - Center of 21 blocks from Superdome to River Only three stand watch - "Flood Control" bas relief on Hebert building https://farm3.staticflickr.com/2237/229 ... 1f3e_z.jpg Way point 3: ? Some place between Layfayette square and where the St. Charles hotel stood?) As the sound of friends Fills the afternoon hours - Lafayette Square visitors Waypoint 4: St. Charles Hotel (? No longer there but I think it was on the corner of St. Louis st. and Royal street(St Charles across Canal st.) Waypoint 5: intersection of Burbon/Chartres/Orleans streets (titles of Philip II of whom New Orleans named after) Gnomes admire (only son of German Princess) - Financial gnomes on 3 statues...Franklin, Clay, McDonough Fays delight (only living son/heir to French monarch) - Lafayette Square's District Light poles (perimeter and 4 around Clay Statue) The namesakes meeting Near this site - Lafayette Square and Lafayette Street

Unknown: it seems that way maybe we should just stretch the definition of parks to public property. Fine. As I've noted before, there are 9.4 million square miles in North America. And there are about 28 million square feet in a square mile. That's a lot of holes to dig, public property or no.

MrBackstop wrote:: Fifteen rows down to the ground - 15 Row houses on the Jazz Walking tour in the area around Lafayette Square I don't really know enough about NO to weigh in on this, but I was wonder how old the Jazz Walking tour is?

Yeah I forgot that I adjusted my thinking about the Jazz walking tour itself. I haven't looked at this one in quite awhile since I posted my solve. The history of the Jazz walking tours have been around forever according to a friend who grew up in NOLA but didn't become official Jazz tours until the mid 80s I believe. So as I thought more about it I'm more inclined to believe BP was talking about the row houses that go down St. Charles St from Lafayette Square. I haven't been able to find any history on what has or has not been torn down over the last 30+ years. For me though this line in the verse: Fifteen rows down to the ground simply refers to row houses...these could have been 15 rows on the St. Charles that went from Canal St down to the ground (Lafayette Square) or perhaps 15 rows on Camp Street. I just have no way to quantify 15 with so many changes over the years.

Has this verse been translated yet? I didn’t see a translation on the other thread. Courious about the afternoon hours line. Google produces this: It satisfies the time after, but literally translating it into a straightforward and direct expression," Has this been more?” What if you rephrase it directly? Not sure if it’s a good translation or not, but got me thinking the image is of a clock and it’s talking about hours and the image has three hours missing.

The key about "afternoon hours" is that BP was letting us know that the way to find some clues was is the afternoon sunlight....not 3:00 in the morning when it's dark. Here's what I mean. The greenish gem in Image 7 Is above the 12 on the clock and has an odd shape to it. It also has a strong highlight at the top of the gem. The large clock hand (upside down Central District Street Lamps) points to the gem. The little hand with the circle is indicating the teasure spot and is just shy of 3:00. When standing in the center of Lafayette Square you'll be next to the Henry Clay statue. This is the center of the clock. If you look toward the Hebert Building you see one of the 4 green lamp posts that surround the Clay statue. The lamp indicated is the one that is just shy of what would be 3:00 in the park. https://www.google.com/maps/@29.9481952 ... 312!8i6656 When the sunlight is shining (afternoon hours) it creates a nice, highlighted, green color on the bottom of the lamp that has a similar shape to the stone in Image 7. BP is letting us know that this is where he buried the casque...on the inside of this green lamp post. From this position on Google maps that I included you can see the Hebert Building in the background. If you look above the trees onto the building you see the maroon colored checker pattern...the background idea for Image 7. If you look passed the lamp you will notice bas relief on the building called "Harvesting Sugar Cane". This is what I see as the gnarled up hand in the image holding the Armstrong Mask. And also if you look on that same building to the left you will see the other bas relief called "Flood Control" which is what the verse "Only three stand watch" refers to.

the key was never "afternoon hours", it's key should be the "sound of friends" afternoon hours in general is called post meridiem, or pm

Spiritr wrote:: the key was never "afternoon hours", it's key should be the "sound of friends" afternoon hours in general is called post meridiem, or pm Well alrighty then... Ok, I'll bite, what does "sound of friends" mean to you?

it really depends on what image I'm pairing the Verse with my original solution was friends = France France PM / Prime minister but I couldn't find a single visual confirmer for that so....

travis and i have this down to two spots...and we know how to figure out final spot to dig for sure. there are so many refs to both spots its hard to discount either, im waiting on him to do the last step we need to find out the location to dig.

Hi guys, possible new theory for New Orleans and verse 2. Hope this can be of help! viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7362

Delilah84 wrote:: Hi guys, possible new theory for New Orleans and verse 2. Hope this can be of help! viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7362 Okay, I have been off this board for a bit and I come back and notice that you are just posting the same thing again and again across threads. Maybe a rookie mistake, but there are some unspoken rules here. Post into a thread your thoughts. If you believe that there is a connection, post into the corresponding Image or Verse thread, but not leading back to a thread that makes no sense to begin with. This board is about discussing solid theories and how they apply to this puzzle. not about views and likes, ala Twitter or FB.

Hi, I'm sorry to understand I get perceived as a troll. Yes, it can be a rookie mistake, as I don't usually use forums if not for reading, and even though I've been lurking here for years I never felt I had anything very important to add to the theories, maybe I wrote once or twice in years. I can easily explain why I posted on any relevant-to-my-theory thread: I don't usually check all the threads, and I only check the threads that are relevant to me. Or receive notifications only for the threads I subscribed for. So in my case I would have never known about an interesting theory for something I could be interested into if not posted inside the very thread I'm following. Therefore I thought that could be useful for those only checking "their" thread. Probably my bad. Sorry. I posted because I thought it was a solid theory, and fortunately I also received some positive feedback, otherwise I would have never posted as I never felt the urge to do so in many years. I don't care about likes or views (I basically never use socials apart private Facebook, seriously, never cared for them!), I don't get any benefit from them, I just wanted the people that could have been affected by my theory to know that maybe there was a different direction to look at. That's all.

Delilah84 wrote:: Hi, I'm sorry to understand I get perceived as a troll. Yes, it can be a rookie mistake, as I don't usually use forums if not for reading, and even though I've been lurking here for years I never felt I had anything very important to add to the theories, maybe I wrote once or twice in years. I can easily explain why I posted on any relevant-to-my-theory thread: I don't usually check all the threads, and I only check the threads that are relevant to me. Or receive notifications only for the threads I subscribed for. So in my case I would have never known about an interesting theory for something I could be interested into if not posted inside the very thread I'm following. Therefore I thought that could be useful for those only checking "their" thread. Probably my bad. Sorry. I posted because I thought it was a solid theory, and fortunately I also received some positive feedback, otherwise I would have never posted as I never felt the urge to do so in many years. I don't care about likes or views (I basically never use socials apart private Facebook, seriously, never cared for them!), I don't get any benefit from them, I just wanted the people that could have been affected by my theory to know that maybe there was a different direction to look at. That's all. Fair enough. Thanks for the reply.

MrBackstop wrote:: Yeah I forgot that I adjusted my thinking about the Jazz walking tour itself. I haven't looked at this one in quite awhile since I posted my solve. The history of the Jazz walking tours have been around forever according to a friend who grew up in NOLA but didn't become official Jazz tours until the mid 80s I believe. So as I thought more about it I'm more inclined to believe BP was talking about the row houses that go down St. Charles St from Lafayette Square. I haven't been able to find any history on what has or has not been torn down over the last 30+ years. For me though this line in the verse: Fifteen rows down to the ground simply refers to row houses...these could have been 15 rows on the St. Charles that went from Canal St down to the ground (Lafayette Square) or perhaps 15 rows on Camp Street. I just have no way to quantify 15 with so many changes over the years. So the ground isn't "Clay'? I also do not know enough about NO, but have been curious as to people's thoughts on if it could be reference Henry Clay?

youd have to explain what the fifteen rows are, but its not a terrible idea. not as good as at least 3 other readings which are very clearly perfect. but there are probably several applications overall.

Unknown: not as good as at least 3 other readings which are very clearly perfect "Perfect" means without flaws. So unless there are at least three casques in New Orleans, or all three solves lead to the same place, only one can be "perfect". The other two can not. With all the success being claimed in that city, I'm leaning toward the former.

strike13 wrote:: So the ground isn't "Clay'? I also do not know enough about NO, but have been curious as to people's thoughts on if it could be reference Henry Clay? Well yes, that is another connector Strike. The ground is in reference to Lafayette Square where there is the center statue of Henry Clay. As you stand on the side of the Henry Clay statue and look around you can see many, many of the clues in Image 7 and Verse 2. I like your thinking.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: "Perfect" means without flaws. So unless there are at least three casques in New Orleans, or all three solves lead to the same place, only one can be "perfect". The other two can not. With all the success being claimed in that city, I'm leaning toward the former. i mean perfect applications as in matches the whole line...clay being ground doesnt explain the 15 rows, hence my perfectly reasonable response...

Here is my thinking. Lee Circle There use to be 21 trees in a circle and in the Midle is Lee (middle of 21) Its literally 15 steps(rows) down to the bottom (ground) A famous hotel is built there in lee Circle (shelter) General Lee is looking towards St. Charles Avenue(Gnomes Admire) Dryades Street and Cours de Naides (now St Charles Avenue) were named after wood and water sprites respectively. They originate @ Lee Circle . (Fays Delight)

Here is my thinking. Lee Circle There use to be 21 trees in a circle and in the Midle is Lee(middle of 21) Its literally 15 steps(rows) down to the bottom (ground) A famous hotel is built there in lee Circle (shelter) General Lee is looking towards St. Charles Avenue(Gnomes Admire) Dryades Street and Cours de Naides (now St Charles Avenue) were named after wood and water sprites respectively. They originate @ Lee Circle. (Fays Delight)

bpa73j wrote:: Here is my thinking. Lee Circle There use to be 21 trees in a circle and in the Midle is Lee (middle of 21) Its literally 15 steps(rows) down to the bottom (ground) A famous hotel is built there in lee Circle (shelter) General Lee is looking towards St. Charles Avenue(Gnomes Admire) Dryades Street and Cours de Naides (now St Charles Avenue) were named after wood and water sprites respectively. They originate @ Lee Circle . (Fays Delight) Good thoughts here bpa. I've never heard these details...I like the new view.

bpa73j wrote:: Here is my thinking. Lee Circle There use to be 21 trees in a circle and in the Midle is Lee(middle of 21) Its literally 15 steps(rows) down to the bottom (ground) A famous hotel is built there in lee Circle (shelter) General Lee is looking towards St. Charles Avenue(Gnomes Admire) Dryades Street and Cours de Naides (now St Charles Avenue) were named after wood and water sprites respectively. They originate @ Lee Circle. (Fays Delight) Good thoughts here bpa. I've never heard these details...I like the new view.

I'm still curious as to what the members think the "PRES" clue in the wood below the clock face means. You know my reason, what is yours?

Unknown: the "PRES" clue in the wood below the clock face means what's a "Pres" clue?

MrBackstop wrote:: I'm still curious as to what the members think the "PRES" clue in the wood below the clock face means. You know my reason, what is yours? I don't keep track of individual theories -- there are too many! Are you looking to start a poll? If you are asking about a visual clue in an image, it's best to ask about it in the appropriate image thread.

MrBackstop wrote:: I'm still curious as to what the members think the "PRES" clue in the wood below the clock face means. You know my reason, what is yours? I think there might be an E and maybe an S but the rest isn't really actually there. and the E and S could simply be brushstrokes...

the black scrawls?, def something, i lose resolution in the zoom but it doesnt look like pres to me.

If "PRES" is there maybe it was going to be where JJP was going to hide "Preservation" and then was like, no I just going to literally spell it out instead.

I don't know much about this puzzle or verse. Could the 15 rows be the steps from the Washington Artillery Park which go "down to the ground" at Jackson Square? Although, I thought the line was referring to things burning “down to the ground”. Were there 15 buildings or churches that burnt down and left the St. Louis Cathedral, The Cabildo, and Presbytere? Maybe they are the three that stand watch? It is an old city. Undoubtedly, there have been fires throughout history. Either way, Jackson Square is right there in the middle, near The Jax - from the kid’s sock. It also looks like a clock from above. If only in its round shape. Maybe that is a tie-in with the clock face? The Cabildo, St. Louis Cathedral, and Presbytere all face the square. And, of the Square-facing archways, the Front door of the Cathedral is in the middle of the 21 archways. Directly out from there is a square plaque embedded in the ground which looks very similar to the clock face. Sort-of. Not sure when it was placed there, but it looks like it could be the clock face. Also, the mask is covering 6, 7, and 8. 6+7+8=21. Maybe the “middle” is 7, and the dig spot is where 7 falls on the “clock” made by the overhead of Jackson Square? Like I said, I don’t know much about this particular puzzle. I really only got here from reading the other posts about the email with St. Louis in it.

UnprovenFact wrote:: Although, I thought the line was referring to things burning “down to the ground”. There have been a few fires. I looked into this and I think there was a fire that took out 15 or so city blocks... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_New ... Fire_(1788 ) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_New ... Fire_(1794 )#/media/File:1794_mapa_incendio_Nueva_Orleans_AGI.jpg (15 blocks effected) and there have been more... XdM

So George, add row 7 to your dig area!