Verse 6: Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand. ===================================== beginning a train of thought for verse 6: "Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913" That should be a searchable phrase and date for Google, playing with alternate wordings.  (Chris remembers how we worked on Logica this way.) "Edwin and Edwina named after him" Specific set of twins?  Or just every kid named Ed is his namesake? "Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended" Eighth day of the month?  Eighth attempt at something?  Eighth game in a series?  A lot of possibilities to search for. "Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand" Palm tree would be obvious, but could also be the palm of a statue's outstretched hand.   Image 6 shows a palm tree near sand.  I thought that rock looked like something I might have seen here in California, but I like the spec about the conquistador indicating Florida.

Most people are leaning towards the V & P you have mentioned as being somewhere in FL.  There are many confirmers to FL in the V and turn the P over and what do you see?  Yup, the state of FL with the jewel representing Lake Okechobee.

I am confident that I have found "Edwin and Edwina" and the man who is their namesake.  :) There was a famous actor named Edwin Booth (1833-1893), and a famous portrait of him with his daughter Edwina.  Edwin was named for Edwin Forrest. Edwin Forrest (1806-1872) was a major presence in American theater.  He built a castle on the Hudson River near New York City and a brownstone mansion on Broad Street in Philadelphia, where the actors of the Freedom Theater put on plays today.  Springbrook was his country house in Holmesburg, a suburb of Philadelphia, where there is now an elementary school named after him. SO!  I am going with the assumption that verse 6 is about philadelphia, and that the palm is not a tree but a hand.  I will continue to look for other confirmers today.

I too found the lead to Edwin Booth but with the other confirmers to FL, I'm now looking into tying EB with FL.  Confirmers?: - Line 5 points to the State Song "Swanee River" aka "The Old Folks at Home" adopted in 1935 which replaced the old state song "Florida My Florida" which had been adopted in, yup, 1913.  Also, "the birds" in line 6 may be a play on SWANee river.  Line 7 sounds like a river (swanee) to me. - FL's discoverer, Ponce de Leon, named the new state "la Florida" in honor of Spain's Eastertime celebration "Pascua florida" (feast of the flowers). This land was discovered on Easter or Palm (note P6) Sunday. - more on the Palm.....It is the state tree. - the last line might point to a memorial center at White Springs honoring Stephen Foster, who wrote Swanee River. just some thoughts...........................  :D

Unknown: Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 I did an extensive Internet search.  There were quite a few people who were born or died in May 1913.  The most significant event was the Treaty of London being signed.  There was also a May Day revolt in Russia in 1913.  Congress also passed a law in May 1913 recognizing Mother's Day, and requiring representatives to wear white carnations.  I believe there is a picture with a white carnation in it.

i'll stand my ground and say this verse is definitely not about Florida.  The palm will not be the palm in that picture (which I will agree IS florida), nor a palm tree of any sort. I still do not see any connection between "cool clear song of water" and "Swanee River".  It is just as likely to be the song "Cool Water" (lost the reference now, but the lyrics begin "each day i face the barren waste without a taste of water, cool clear water") May 1913 could just be a small engraving on a nearby building.  Treasure hunts are also scavenger hunts.  The verse is not a set of clues for finding the general location, but a set of instructions for following a path to a digging spot.  You will walk a trail and see these things along the way as confirmers.  Such a visual bit of text might not be a famous date, but something only a local would see.  For example, the foundation of the May Company building might have "erected 1913" carved on a brick. I'm still following my Philadelphia lead from Edwin Forrest.  His mansion houses the Freedom Theater.  I keep trying to visualize a statue of a slave, with arms outstretched and a bar shackled to his wrists.  That would cast a nice shadow.

I love your pep Cat, but how can you say that it is definitely NOT one place, then say it may be another?  I have not said one way or the other if it IS FL.  I have simply stated that many (myself included) are leaning towards the possible confirmers of FL.  I really like where you are going with the Edwin Forrest approach as well.  The second half of the V sure sounds like oppression or slavery and Mr. F was big on that.  Here are a couple of photos I've found.  It is odd because both photos say they are either E.F.'s home or E.F.'s mansion but they are different buildings. (home) hxxp://www.brynmawr.edu/iconog/hotchkin ... pg(mansion )hxxp://www.brynmawr.edu/iconog/nwl/p906014c.jpg

The following are thoughts from GPKing on verse 6, who posted this info under the Image 6 thread: Thanks for the welcome. Stupid me, I just took a cruise to Key West in March and found out that President Truman like to stay there. Here's a link on the subject: hxxp://www.trumanlittlewhitehouse.com/ ( 'White house close at hand' from verse 6?) It also seems that this is the island where Ponce de Leon died too. hxxp://floridakeys.com/keywest/history.htm The island used to survive off of piracy.  The islanders would light false signals and cause ships to crash into the rocks, where they would plunder their cargo. ( first five lines of verse 6? ) The same area has Ernest Hemingway's house, and the Audubon house. ( 'stand and listen to the birds' from verse 6 ) War was declared on Spain in the custom's house in the same area after the Maine was sunk in Cuba. ( 'freedom at the birth of a century' from verse 6 ) Here are some other local attractions: hxxp://floridakeys.com/keywest/thingstodo/attractions.htm Long palm shadow could be a tree, or the shadow of an extended hand from a local statue, at a certain time of day? Any thoughts?

More thoughts from GPKing: Once you get rolling, you can't stop. Tennessee Williams lived in Key West.  His mother's name was Edwina! I wonder if he had any nieces or nephews named after he died? Or maybe local residents? ( 'Edwin and Edwina named after him' verse 6 ) I seems that Key West was a writers' mecca. ( 'Harken to the words:' verse 6 ) The semicolon is unusual, since the verse has no other punctuation.  Maybe the lines following each relate to a writer that lived there? Henry Flagler, the famous developer of Florida, who extended the Florida over-sea railroad to Key West in 1912, died in May, 1913. ( 'Or May 1913' verse 6 ) The search continues... Fort Zachary Taylor Beach and Park lies behind the Truman Annex ( the little white house ) in Key West.  In fact, you must pass through the Annex to get to the beach. The Fort there was once a desalinization plant ( 'Hear the cool, clear song of water' verse 6 ) Now, if I can only get the last bit: Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Awaits the Fair remuneration Jetties at each end of the beach? Below a binding bar? Next to the shadow of a long palm tree? Buried in the sand. Gotta keep digging...

"Edwin and Edwina named after him..." I was thinking about this line and came to the conclusion that it might mean one of two things: Either we're looking for a BOOTH, since 'Edwin and Edwina' is a famous portrait of the Booth family by James Brady as someone else has already pointed out... (this seems kind of out there) OR... Someone or something named EDWARD, because if you were going to name people in alphabetical order you name Edward... Edwin... Edwina... in that order. What'dya think??

After reading this I'm also thinking like the verse is for Florida. After looking for the lyrics to Swanee River I found that the guy who wrote it (Stephen Foster) sold it to a famous minstrelman E. P. Christy. hxxp://dhr.dos.state.fl.us/symbols/song.html The minstrel's first name was Edwin and had 2 sons who seem to have been called E. Byron and William A. hxxp://www.famousamericans.net/edwinpchristy/ Could this be the Edwin from the verse. I cant look into it further but will try to do so in a few days.

A friend of mine suggested that the line "Freedom at the birth of a century could refer to the 1803 Louisiana Purchase. --Johann

Argh, I grew up not far from Philly--I'm on the West Coast now or else I could be of some assistance. I will see if I have any friends on "that coast" who are still nearby and would be up for some hunting.

lol.  Right next to the Bishop White House is a fountain which eerily looks like the fountain under the centaur in Image 4, which is the picture that most of us believe relates to Philly.  I have been to that fountain and the White House countless times while I was in college (about 15+ years ago), with The Secret in hand.  There is also a church tower nearby which looks similar to the upside-down tower hidden in the trees of Image 4.  That is as far as I ever got.

Unknown: lol.  Right next to the Bishop White House is a fountain which eerily looks like the fountain under the centaur in Image 4, which is the picture that most of us believe relates to Philly. Except that over on the Image 4 board, they seem to have good clues for the city being Cleveland.

I know.  After seeing those pics, I am also convinced that Image 4 and Verse 4 lead to Cleveland.

wow, nice work everyone.  I have to agree with P4 & Cleveland....but why V4?

this verse surely has something to do with pirates (men of tales and tunes cruel and bold) also, compare the first 5 lines of the verse Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old to the preface to Treasure Island by Robert Louis Stevenson: "TO THE HESITATING PURCHASER If sailor tales to sailor tunes , Storm and adventure, heat and cold, If schooners, islands, and maroons, And buccaneers, and buried gold, And all the old romance, retold Exactly in the ancient way, Can please, as me they pleased of old , The wiser youngsters of today: --So be it, and fall on! If not, If studious youth no longer crave, His ancient appetites forgot, Kingston, or Ballantyne the brave, Or Cooper of the wood and wave: So be it, also! And may I And all my pirates share the grave Where these and their creations lie!" coincidence?

Seems like more than a coincidence to me. Great find spacecraft! Putting together clues from catherwood, johann, and spacecraft this could be the elusive St Louis verse. The 1904 World's fair was held in Forest Park (Edwin Forrest) in St Louis (Robert -Louis St- evenson) and celebrated the Louisiana Purchase ("freedom at the..").

By golly!  I recently thought about rereading Treasure Island (since early high school) but I have not. Thank you very much and a tip of the hat to SoonerFan and spacecraft.  I have been all over Forest Park so many times that I almost pitched a tent and stayed. I have been quiet about St. Louis for so long because I have been stumped.  I'll pursue these ideas and report on progress. Again, thanks.

"Waits the Fair remuneration" The World's Fair?  There's a World's Fair Pavilion, hxxp://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/parks/forestpark/pavilion.html near a building called the Jewel Box (see Image 9 thread). Here are a couple of good maps: hxxp://www.st-louis-cvc.com/pdf/maps/forestParkForeverMap.pdf hxxp://www.st-louis-cvc.com/pdf/maps/forestPark.pdf The World's Fair Pavilion has a number of interesting things around it.  Perhaps there's a sculpture, design, or inscription which you can connect with the verse and/or one of the pics (perhaps Image 9). hxxp://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/forestpark-landscape2.jpg hxxp://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/stlouis/kempland/pavilion-forestpark2.jpg

"Stand and listen to the birds" The original bird flight cage from the 1904 Fair can still be found in the Zoo in Forest Park. "Between two arms extended" Also, as I posted in the Image 9 thread, there is a large statue of St. Francis with arms extended in the Jewel Box gardens.  I believe he is surrounded by stone geese, but I'll have to consult the pictures I took this weekend. The Jewel Box didn't have any of their outdoor gardens in bloom yet, so it was hard to say for sure where all of their "flower beds" would be.  I know that digging in these are strictly forbidden by the book, but the statue didn't appear to be in the middle of one. I don't remember anything about a "binding bar", but I wasn't focusing on Verse 6 last weekend, so I'll defer to Johann's judgement on this one.

hxxp://www.art-stl.com/Publicart.cfm?where=Forest+Park Here's a link to a picture of the St. Francis Statue in the park. It's about half way down the page.

The map of this statue says it on the corner of a gold course. Buried in the sand?  Maybe buried in a sandtrap?

Unknown: The map of this statue says it on the corner of a gold course. Buried in the sand?  Maybe buried in a sandtrap? Actually, that MapQuest map is a poor representation of the location.  It is actually located in between McKinley, Wells and Union, making it a bit farther away than that map may suggest.

Thank you all for all this.  I was at Forest Park today (as I have been many days to no avail).  Some of the posted info I know, but some of it I did not.  I had never worked with this verse in connection to the location, but I do believe it may be working. St. Louis (his statue is in front of the Art Museum and is on the St. Francis link) was a Crusader, hence the "romance" and tales "cruel and bold."  Along the sides of the museum are profiles of men long dead, so the "seen here / By eyes of old". The Museum, like the aviary, is one of the few remaining structures from the Fair.  On each side of the entrance is a statue, a pair made in 1913 and representing Sculpture and Painting (also on the link).  There is another 1913 sculpture at a zoo entrance (also on the link). When one stands near the aviary (that is the word for a big bird cage?) one can see the large cascading fountain that flows down the hill of the World's Fair Pavilion (which was actually built in 1909 to commemorate the Fair). Forest Park also has an outdoor performance arena called "The Muny" and I find it interesting that the verse uses the word "remuneration," an odd and seldom used word for "reward" when any other synonym would do (possibly). I actually began my hunt a year ago at the Jewel Box using verse 2.  I had no idea that image 9 has a connection.  I will check that link, Egbert.  Thanks! This is all I know so far.  I will be at home with my two-year-old daughter all summer.  She does like the Forest Park Zoo and I planned to recruit her as my hunt assistant.  I may be back there tomorrow if the rain and her possible chicken pox don't keep us at home.  Again, big thanks y'all!!!

Johann, while I have now confirmed that there is a Houston treasure, I have no confirmation of the picture or verse. Yes, we all agree that verse 1 is the clearest link, but the only good link in p8 is the lat/long numbers.  There are other numbers in p8 too. If you think that v6 gets you near a zoo, look to see if there are any columns that match p8, since it does seem to hint to a zoo. wilhouse

I don't presume to speak for Johann, but I think tonight I've made some pretty good breakthroughs with a lot of help on this board.  I believe Verse 6 and Image 9 are indeed linked. I believe the St. Louis Zoo is just a supporting castmate due to the bird flight's presence (which was there before the zoo existed).  It seems, based on what I've read here, that Houston's link to the zoo is much stronger. Once again, that's just my two cents.  I'm going to try to contact Johann about a little recon and then hopefully we can meet together and trek into the wild sometime soon.

Thanks, Wilhouse and Dan.  All ideas and info are helpful.  I have tried several pic/verse combinations in the last year, and I have used a shovel at least 3 times.  Nothing, nothing, nothing.  Yet, I know three places the treasure is not.  That means something, although it is discouraging.  Byron Preiss did confirm that verse 7 is NOT for St. Louis.  He was probably tired of my solutions. Wilhouse does imply a necessary point.  We cannot ever assume we are right until we have a treasure in hand.  However, we cannot ever assume we are wrong.  I know that we all know this, and I do not intend to be condescending, but it seems to me that the two hardest factors of this hunt are: matching pic and verse, and wanting to find/make a solution. I will pursue the verse 6 idea, since it seems most promising so far.  I will also strongly consider image 9 while trying to keep my mind open to other possibilities. Although I prefer to share info with the board, my private address is [email protected] Yet, I strongly emphasize that board teamwork is preferred. --Johann

Unknown: Verse 6: Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds I still seem to be one of the oldtimers thinking this V leads to Florida.  I like the ideas about Key West and Ike's Little White House; however, this part of the V may be referring to the August 8th, 1968 race riots in Miami.  I'm sure the law had to come into the fray.  Between two arms extended may be the racial issues between the blacks and the whites.

I've been trying to shoe-horn this verse into matching Forest Park in St. Louis with the help of Johann's local expertise and have come to the conclusion that the links just aren't very strong.  Here's a quick dissemination that might foster better results in another city: "Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old" The treasure island link is a good one, at least with the first two lines.  I read this as a reference to a monument or statue to sailors which I linked to the Confederate Memorial (to soldiers and sailors) in Forest Park.  However, the lines cruel and bold seem to specifically address pirates. "Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool clear song of water" The 1904 flight cage and the World's Fair Pavillion fountain are located near each other, but you could make these lines work any number of places. "Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century" While the 1904 World's Fair was the centennial of Louisianna Purchase, it has never really struck me as a good example of "freedom."  Although I may just not know enough about the history.  In St. Louis alone, there are two parks that were founded 100 years after the signing of the Declaration of Independence.  Surely, there must be a great number of them across the country. "Or May 1913" The Jefferson Memorial Building in Forest Park was dedicated on April 30, 1913.  While this is only one day off from the start of May, there don't seem to be any major dedications specifically in that month. "Edwin and Edwina named after him" Forrest/Forest of course... "Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended" The only good thing I could come up with regarding St. Louis would involve the Dred Scott case but again, no major references in the park.  And no real matching dates regarding either the 8th or August.  Also, no set of reliefs or carvings with at least eight. "Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow" The Confederate Memorial depicts a family sending their son off to war.  Above it is a carving of the Angel of the Confederacy.  A blurry picture raised my hopes, but a close examination proved there to be no two arms extended outward, no binding bar, and no hand far enough out to cast a shadow.  Although there were palm trees in the background of the family scene. "Embedded in the sand" Unless this is some play on words, there isn't any real sand in Forest Park near monuments or statues. "Waits the Fair remuneration" Reference to the Muny in Forest Park possibly? "White House close at hand" The Cabanne House was the original parkkeeper's residence and does appear white in some pictures.  It is located near the Confederate Memorial, but then again there are lots of white houses, lots of parks, lots of cities, and lots of ways to make clues fit a specific place. This is an aggregate of various ideas posted in the thread and in correspondence with Johann.  Please don't be offended if points are not credited by name.  I know that 99% of you people here have read this entire thread hundreds of times and everyone is well aware of who posted what first.  I'd love to hear some feedback regarding St. Louis or other cities regarding some of these points.

Another quick note: After working with this verse, I would tend to agree with fox that this verse smacks of a coastal place.  Tossing out the Citadel reference in another verse, candidates would include Florida, North Carolina (EDIT: althought I suppose this one already has a verse but is lacking a picture), Charleston, and New Orleans. I think there be pirates about, matey.  Avast, arrgh, ahem... In admiring your work with the Charleston image, I read just a few historical tidbits that could be a long stretch.  Apparently Blackbeard the pirate was a fixture in both Charleston and North Carolina.  While he looted the coast of Charleston and took hostages, he made friends with the governor of North Carolina and was pardoned.  Could there be some monument or memorial to pirates or Blackbeard specifically? Also, Blackbeard name was Edward Teach.    Where was he buried?  Did he live in the Carolinas for long?  Did he have any kids? Edward, Edwin, Edwina?  Shrug...

Unknown: "Edwin and Edwina named after him..." I was thinking about this line and came to the conclusion that it might mean one of two things: Either we're looking for a BOOTH, since 'Edwin and Edwina' is a famous portrait of the Booth family by James Brady as someone else has already pointed out... (this seems kind of out there) OR... Someone or something named EDWARD, because if you were going to name people in alphabetical order you name Edward... Edwin... Edwina... in that order. What'dya think?? Do a search for "Edward Edwin Edwina" in Google and it certainly does appear that those three names are exactly consecutive alphabetical entires in the "giant list of all names" file.

good idea dan.  The V does say E & E named AFTER him which could fit your alphabetical theory.  One thing that fits kind of nicely (however the date is way off - 1996) is hurricane Edward.  As the year progresses hurricanes are named alphabetically...no wait...looks like after Edward, the next hurricane would be named beginning with "F".  Oh well, just an idea....which also fit in nicely with Florida...

This could be an ignorant question, and a foolish idea to boot, but where is Oak Island?  Is it just over the border into Canada?  I know that it is a fanatical place for seekers of pirate treasure, and it would be humorous for some National Lampoon writers to put a real treasure there. If this post is ignorant, please ignore it. --Johann

Oak Island is off of the coast of Nova Scotia & yes, it would be kind of humorous burying a book-based treasure on an island where a legendary (but never able to be retrieved) treasure is located.  Remember, 1 casque is buried somewhere in Canada...why did you bring up Oak Island with this V?

Unknown: "Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended" Another possible way to read this V would be to emphasize the 8th....and not automatically jump to the conclusion this is a date.  Maybe there is an 8th St. Bridge (which you could definitely be "on") that had a scene?

Fox-- I knew of Oak Island (sketchy), and a Canadian friend was preparing a trip to family in Canada.  I was talking about The Secret when she said, "Aaaah, treasure," and went into a brief Oak Island shpiel.  Does anyone on the board know more about Oak Island? --Johann

Johann, I found this about Oak Island: hxxp://www.oakislandtreasure.co.uk/

Actually a pirate was hanged at White Point Gardens in Charleston, ahh, I just read it last night I can't remember the name. Anyways, In 1913 The Daughters of the American Revolution got the deed to the Old Exchange from congress for "Preservation". Also, wasn't it at the battle of Fort Sumter that Keye wrote the Star Spangle Banner? Side note: Was the Mexican Revolution around 1913?

Here's the quick info: In the early 1720s, the infamous "gentleman" pirate Stede Bonnet was hanged here with about 50 others like him. Townspeople filled the gallows area and jeered as the outlaw was brought to his rightful end. Bonnet was buried in the nearby marsh. His epitaph has been memorialized and stands today in the park. hxxp://www.csa-scla.org/Events/Battery.htm I haven't had any luck finding what exactly that "epitaph" is written on.

Here's a tidbit that might factor in, if not already considered - the Jewel Box is constructed of eight arches, according to the following link: www.48plus2.com/forest.htm Could this be a link to the "on the eighth a scene"?

Knowing the Jewel Box, I can't see how this line would relate to the previous and following lines, but it is something to given thought.  The structure is all metal and glass without any connected plaques, but I will check things out tomorrow. --Johann

Francis Scott Key wrote the Star Spangled Banner during the  war of 1812 in Baltimore harbor, MD while being held captive aboard a british Man of War, which was shelling Fort McHenry.

Verse 6 has always been my pick for Charleston after the discoveries about pirates and the Battery (White Point Gardens) is full of pirate history. Basically there is a really nice pirate monument dedicated to the trial of Stede Bonnet and his crew at whitepoint-where they were also hanged and buried. This i liked alot. The first few lines of the poem especially after the treasure island find is all about pirates. I knew that stede and his crew were tried at whitepoint...but had no idea they were buried there ;] "Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water"--there was a multitude of birds there. Seagulls and pigeons...they seemed to be an attraction lots of people feeding them. The water could be the sea. "Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended." In order, one after another as you walk through,you pass a statue dedicated to William Sims an author and historian. This fit nicely with the "harken to the words" part--then as you continue to walk the next monument is dedicated to the soldies at Fort Moutrie during the revoloutionary war. I had always taken "Freedon at the birth of a century" to mean 1800 or 1900---but how do we here in America measure our centuries? Our bicenntenial was in 1976. I liked this statue for the "freedom" line. Then next came my favorite discovery. I had looked up "May 1913" on google so many times i was sick of typing it. Nothing of Charleston/pirate importance ever. Well, the first thing i noticed about the next monument (the capstan of the USS Maine) was that it was dedicated in May 1913 and said that really big on a plaque on the side. Continuing on, just of to your side is the pirate monument "Edwin and Edwina" could very well be named after Edward Teach (Blackbeard) next to that is a stature dedicated to the crew of the hunley that was dedicated on the 8th of some month ---(lol cant remeber found that info in the library) "on the eighth a scene.--- Now. The last few lines could mean a few things. "Between two arms extended"--we already were speaking of the ashley and cooper rivers as arms--also there is a little childrens statue in the middle of the park and 2 of the  monuments have one outstreched hand and there is an obvious middle point between them. "Below the bar that binds"--The only thing i could think of was that WPG is a big sandbar ;] "Beside the long palm's shadow."--Cat and i had a talk about how this couldn't refer to an actuall palm tree but interestingly enough there was one palm in the park that was 2x the height of any of the others...also it cast a shadow at night from the lamps that passed right by the mddle point of the 2 statues outstreched arms. This also fits in with the SC flag--a palm and a cresent moon. The shadow would be in the same place all the time if it was from a lamp. "Embedded in the sand"--nothing but sand at WPG. "Waits the fair remuneration"--I think this is a play on the word 'munition'--remuneration is far to obscure a word not to have double meaning. "White house close at hand"--right across the street is 2 Meeting St. Inn where George Washington used to stay while in Charleston. GW is also mentioned in the SC fairies story.(Devil Dogs) This could be a reference to the pavillion in the middle of the park a little white house ;]

I hope you took pictures....

Ive got so many its silly  ;)  --still trying to organize them into a decent archive.

This sounds like real progress towards the location.  One longshot thought on "the bar that binds" is that the Board of Architectural Review (BAR) "binds" all property owners in this part of Charleston to preserve the historic nature of the buildings.

I appreciate that input--there is a major focus on restoration and historical preservation in downtown Charleston.

Here's a nice one until i get the archive online ;]

Very nice finds indeed cthree.  I really like how you broke down the lines between "Harken to...." & "...law defended."  I had always tried to put one or more of them together to try to get at something but I really like how each of the statues/memorials you come across in order matches each line of the V. come on folks, lets find #3.

Thanks --I really owe alot of the credit to my friends that have taken interest in the hunt especially Talon and Tammyran--thanks guys  :)  -working on an a picture archive now...i'll put up a few more good ones here as well.  8)

Heres some pics to tide you over till i get the archive up and running--its a bit tougher than i anticipated! The "long palm"? This tree definatley stuck out! Me sitting on the cannon balls of power.-- i like the cannon cover to be the donut symbol depicted in the fairies wings. The little circles in the wings could be the cannon balls or the cobblestone streets around WPG. Freedom at the birth of a century?

Here it is! hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/cthreepix

couldn't "waits the fair remuneration" just mean that that is the location of the treasure, since remuneration means payment? wilhouse

Well, thats exactly what it means...but why use the word 'remuneration'? That has got to be the most obscure word for prize/reward ever. Doesn't ryhme with anything, just seems out of place. People earlier had suggested it was a play on the 'Muny" a concert area i think in St. Louis--i got to thinking and decided that i thought it was a play on the word 'munition'. It could just be straight laced and obvious with no hidden meanings at all...but if so, then we might as well not analize that line of the verse anymore---it just means "the treasure waits"--i have a hard time swallowing that with all the other tricky stuff weve come across...

Unknown: Well, thats exactly what it means...but why use the word 'remuneration'? That has got to be the most obscure word for prize/reward ever. Doesn't ryhme with anything, just seems out of place. People earlier had suggested it was a play on the 'Muny" a concert area i think in St. Louis--i got to thinking and decided that i thought it was a play on the word 'munition'. It could just be straight laced and obvious with no hidden meanings at all...but if so, then we might as well not analize that line of the verse anymore---it just means "the treasure waits"--i have a hard time swallowing that with all the other tricky stuff weve come across... I wouldn't worry about it, really.  The meaning of "Remuneration" is clear in context, so it's probably just a poetic choice of words for "reward"

Good point. It is used poetically more often that not.--Good thing that this seems to be the most unimportant line in the Verse.  ;)

A search on Project Gutenberg (see Internet Resources thread) produces 11 independent instances of the words "fair remuneration" in literature. Two stand out as they deal with slavery, and the slave trade has already been implicated in the link between Charleston and Africa in P 2 The slave trade, domestic and foreign _ Why It Exists, And How It May Be Extinguished, by Carey, Henry Charles, page 181 (196 pages) They maintain great fleets and armies, at enormous expense, for the purpose of keeping up a system that destroys their customers and themselves; and this they must continue to do so long as they shall hold to the doctrine which teaches that the only way to secure a fair remuneration to capital is to keep the price of labour down, because it is one that produces discord and slavery, abroad and at home; whereas, under that of peace, hope, and freedom, they would need neither fleets nor armies. AND State Of The Union Address by United States. President (1869-1877 : Grant), page 2  (76 pages) The freedmen, under the protection which they have received, are making rapid progress in learning, and no complaints are heard of lack of industry on their part where they receive fair remuneration for their labor. maybe there is/was a plaque/monument with this or something similar in Charleston?

also. . . . cthree, I noticed that your post above doesn't discuss the "Where law defended" line. . . . did you know that the "L" in Horace L. Hunley (honored for "the defense of Charleston Harbour" in one of your photos) stands for Law son? Happy digging!

Interesting!  I didnt know that! I was kind of leaning on the "law" line referring to the hanging of steed bonnet and 30 other pirates at whitepoint. But this is a very interesting point. Makes me rethink!  ???

thanks (hope you also saw my 'fair remuneration' post at the bottom of the previous page) which is the 8th monument on the line through the park you describe?  does it have any relief scenes on it?

I dont remember anything like that in Whitepoint---i'll check my notes.

In Charleston there is "The Pirate Houses" at 143-145 Church Street.  Supposedly, pirates would hang out there. Has someone already noted this?  If so, I'm sorry for this redundant repetition.

I happened to notice that the weird tree bricks Cthree commented on: hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/158803830/158859096DhXnXt also show up in the Elizabethan Gardens on Roanoke (see V11 thread) hxxp://www.angelfire.com/nc/dewsers/images/eg71.JPG hxxp://www.elizabethangardens.org/images/tour21.jpg does anyone know if this is a standard tree surgery technique??

I think verse 6 has a lot to do with Edwin Booth whose daughter was Edwina Booth. "Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here" That reminds me of a theater, especially due to the "seen here" part. There is a Booth theater named after Edwin Booth who was a Shakesperean actor.  I'm not sure if it is still called the Booth theater but I believe it is.  I think it is on 8th St. too in New York.  There is a statue of Booth in NY too.  Take the info at will and please help if you can.  Thanks.

I may have posted info about this some time ago on this thread.

Unknown: Does verse 6 match up to image 6 for sure or is that just speculation?  There is no sure-fire way to match up the verses/images correctly is there (i.e. the birthstones, etc)?  I believe that the verse 6 treasure lies in NY and would like to find the image to match it up.  Thanks a lot and any help is appreciated. Origianlly posted by Cubbiefan: Mark

I'll try to jumpstart conversation on Verse 6. You were making so much progress, it seems a shame to abandon it. I wish I had something new to add, but I don't - you guys are geniuses. Here is a summary of the information from this thread I found the most compelling, plus a few thoughts of my own thrown in for good measure. In the following cthree is championing White Point Gardens in Charleston, SC (and hence Image 2) whereas dan39decoy is championing Forest Park in St. Louis (and hence, presumably, Image 9). We know there are casques hidden in each of those cities, if I am not mistaken. Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Definitely a reference to the forward of Treasure Island . "Men of tales and tunes" are sailors in the poem. "Cruel and bold" makes them pirates. Just to get people thinking, there is an actual Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay. cthree, 7/3/04 : Verse 6 has always been my pick for Charleston after the discoveries about pirates and the Battery (White Point Gardens) is full of pirate history. Basically there is a really nice pirate monument dedicated to the trial of Stede Bonnet and his crew at whitepoint-where they were also hanged and buried. This i liked alot. The first few lines of the poem especially after the treasure island find is all about pirates. I knew that stede and his crew were tried at whitepoint... but had no idea they were buried there Seen here By eyes of old cthree's observation that pirates are actually buried at WPG makes these two lines a little more understandable, but what is meant by "eyes of old"? Is it near a retirement community? Is OLD an acronym or initials of some sort? Stand and listen to the birds dan39decoy, 5/19/04 : The original bird flight cage from the 1904 Fair can still be found in the Zoo in Forest Park. dan39decoy, 6/4/04 : The 1904 flight cage and the World's Fair Pavillion fountain are located near each other, but you could make these lines work any number of places. Hear the cool, clear song of water cthree, 7/3/04 : --there was a multitude of birds there. Seagulls and pigeons... they seemed to be an attraction lots of people feeding them. The water could be the sea. This line provides absolutely no help (pretty much everything is near water) unless the specific word choice means something, which I am inclined to believe. Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Catherwood, 4/12/03 : I am confident that I have found "Edwin and Edwina" and the man who is their namesake. There was a famous actor named Edwin Booth (1833-1893), and a famous portrait of him with his daughter Edwina.  Edwin was named for Edwin Forrest. Edwin Forrest (1806-1872) was a major presence in American theater.  He built a castle on the Hudson River near New York City and a brownstone mansion on Broad Street in Philadelphia, where the actors of the Freedom Theater put on plays today.  Springbrook was his country house in Holmesburg, a suburb of Philadelphia, where there is now an elementary school named after him. SoonerFan, 5/17/04 : The 1904 World's fair was held in Forest Park (Edwin Forrest) in St Louis (Robert -Louis St- evenson) and celebrated the Louisiana Purchase ("freedom at the.."). Or on the eighth a scene Eighth what? Eighth of May? Eighth panel in a series of paintings? The word "scene" implies a depiction or relief of some sort, if it is "on" something. Where law defended cthree, 7/3/04 : In order, one after another as you walk through,you pass a statue dedicated to William Sims an author and historian. This fit nicely with the "harken to the words" part--then as you continue to walk the next monument is dedicated to the soldies at Fort Moultrie during the revoloutionary war. I had always taken "Freedon at the birth of a century" to mean 1800 or 1900---but how do we here in America measure our centuries? Our bicenntenial was in 1976. I liked this statue for the "freedom" line. Then next came my favorite discovery. I had looked up "May 1913" on google so many times i was sick of typing it. Nothing of Charleston/pirate importance ever. Well, the first thing i noticed about the next monument (the capstan of the USS Maine) was that it was dedicated in May 1913 and said that really big on a plaque on the side. Continuing on, just of to your side is the pirate monument "Edwin and Edwina" could very well be named after Edward Teach (Blackbeard) next to that is a stature dedicated to the crew of the hunley that was dedicated on the 8th of some month ---(lol cant remeber found that info in the library) Between two arms extended dan39decoy, 5/19/04 : Also, as I posted in the Image 9 thread, there is a large statue of St. Francis with arms extended in the Jewel Box gardens.  I believe he is surrounded by stone geese, but I'll have to consult the pictures I took this weekend. Perhaps this is a reference to two cannons? Maybe these two, in White Point Gardens, Charleston: hxxp://www.mac-con.com/photo/categories.php?cat_id=6 Below the bar that binds frishkie, 7/3/04 : This sounds like real progress towards the location.  One longshot thought on "the bar that binds" is that the Board of Architectural Review (BAR) "binds" all property owners in this part of Charleston to preserve the historic nature of the buildings. Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Lots of sand - and palm trees - in Charleston and San Francisco. New Orleans, too, I'd imagine. Waits the Fair remuneration Why is Fair capitalized? Muny Opera (in Forest Park): Fair remuneration = Fairy Muny (ration) (dan39decoy) Egbert, 5/18/04 : The World's Fair?  There's a World's Fair Pavilion, hxxp://stlouis.missouri.org/citygov/parks/forestpark/pavilion.html near a building called the Jewel Box (see Image 9 thread). White house close at hand. cthree, 7/3/04 : "White house close at hand"--right across the street is 2 Meeting St. Inn where George Washington used to stay while in Charleston. GW is also mentioned in the SC fairies story.(Devil Dogs) This could be a reference to the pavillion in the middle of the park a little white house ;] dan39decoy, 6/4/04 : The Cabanne House was the original parkkeeper's residence and does appear white in some pictures.  It is located near the Confederate Memorial, but then again there are lots of white houses, lots of parks, lots of cities, and lots of ways to make clues fit a specific place. General thoughts By elimination, Verse 6 is paired with one of Image 1 (San Francisco), 2 (Charleston), 7 (New Orleans), 9 (St. Louis), 11 (Salt Lake City), or 12 (New York). Due to the clear pirate theme, I am inclined to eliminate Salt Lake City and New York. I'll keep St. Louis as a possibility because of good evidence from SoonerFan that it could refer to Forest Park, and San Francisco because there is an actual, honest-to-goodness Treasure Island in San Francisco Bay. No offense to Egbert or Fenix, but because the 12 locations are pretty well nailed down (or strongly suspected), I'm going to assume Verse 6 does not refer to Key West or to Philadelphia. That leaves us with the following candidates, in no particular order: St. Louis San Francisco New York Charleston New Orleans The two main contenders so far have been St. Louis and Charleston, but Charleston seems like a better match to me, all things considered. If we can get more evidence that this verse matches P6, I would be *thrilled* to drive to Charleston and check it out.

I have not done much research on this one for a while.  But it looks like people are working this over pretty good.  What little I have researched may be helpful to someone.  I am not so sure about Edwin/Edwina being about the Booths.  One of the main founders for the NAACP in Charleston was a local but well known black artist named Edwin Harleston.  Actually WEB DuBois came to Charleston in 1913 as a national leader for the NAACP and its this visit that got Harleston heated up to start a chapter there.  He actually had a niece named after him Edwina who I think was also somewhat entrenched in local civil rights.  This always sounded more in keeping with the African theme.  For what its worth (2 cents).

forest blight-- You mention pictures you took in reference to the St. Francis statue.  Does that mean you are located near St. Louis?  If so, I would enjoy getting together to research and then post discoveries.  Is anyone else in the St. Louis area?  I am.

Alas, no, that was dan39decoy. I live in North Carolina, so am close enough to drive to the Roanoke and Charleston casques. I would have to fly to anything else, I fear.

A friend and I are pursuing the St. Louis possibilities for this verse. In May 1913 Booker T. Washington spoke at the Fourth American Peace Congress in St. Louis.  I will soon be researching a book about the congress in order to find out where the event took place.  Then again, perhaps this verse does point to Charleston.

New Yorkers are on the bottom of my list now.  I flew into NYC from TX to uncover a casque only to run into formidable resistance on the level of NFL linebackers! Let's pair verse 6 with pic 3.  You know, between two arms extended and all that... The first four lines of verse six refer to a theatre.  Yeah, a theatre. Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old But it's not any old theatre, it's one that is really old and probably doesn't show productions anymore. So pair that little nugget with the line that references edwin and edwina.  The greatest American stage actor is Edwin Booth, brother of assassin John Wilkes Booth.  Guess what - Edwin (his son) and Edwina(his  grandaughter) dedicated a statue in his honor in Gramercy Park in NYC in the early 1900's.  Why was this statue placed in Gramercy Park?  Well, that would be because Edwin Booth lived for decades on the park, until his death in 1893.  In fact, Edwin founded the original "Players Club" and it was located on the southern border of the park.  Because actors and artisits were so looked down upon in the 19th century, Booth created a "high-class" destination for his ilk.  Guess who designed the Players Club for Booth - Stanford White.  One of the most famous of American architects, White redesigned most of the surrounding edifices on Gramercy Park.  Thus, "white house close at hand".  Monuments and plaques in the area readily attest to it.  BTW, did I mention that the Gramercy area was settled exclusively by the English?  It is the area of NYC most connected to the English.  Now, consider the lines about birds and water.  Gramercy has always been legendary as a sanctuary for birds in the city and famous as a bird-watching spot.  The fountain is a little iffy for me though.  I have found historical references to fountains in the park, but do not know if there was one in '81. Now check out the painting.  Did you know that Gramercy Park is the only private park in NYC?  No?  Then that's why you didn't realize the significance of the keys hanging from the suit of armor.  You need one of the coveted keys to get into the park!  And the suit of armor itself?  Well, I bought a plane ticket to NYC without knowing this:  there are two knights in armor in front of the locked gate into Gramercy Park.  When I got to the park and saw those...I knew I was on to something.  The next thing that rang a bell for me (sorry):  the bells hanging from the suit of armor- they match a piece of the Edwin Booth statue.  Didn't see that from the internet pics.  But my pics from the gate, magnified, definitely show it.  Those bell things are on the statue. So, I figure some of the pic and the rest of the unused verse lines would be relevant within the park.  They should guide you to the exact location.  So I went to NYC at no small expense.  I tried many an avenue, but no way was found into the park.  The librarian at the Players Club dismissed me as if I was a beggar on the subway.  The seemingly nice people at the episcopal church were unresponsive.  Nobody in the park or entering the park would as much as look twice at you as you pleaded with them to help you.  I might add that I was in some pretty high-dollar threads when I got the "Don't look in my direction you street urchin" treatment.  For God's sake, I'm a coporate executive!  I simply refuse to don black and infiltrate the park at a late hour.  Maybe a few years ago... So check out my lead.  Get in touch with questions.  I've only elucidated the most definite of correlations here.  If there is a treasure in Gramercy Park, may it be ours!  I'd certainly be up for bum-rushing the park someday, after my recent experience!

Interesting ideas indeed...  If this is true, than where oh where does P12 lead? lol Side note:  There is a small plaque outside of Edwin Booth's library in the Players Club which reads: "In this room, during the first three months of 1913, there met without permission, the small committee of 4 or 5 which ultimately led to the formation of the Actors’ Equity Association.”  Talks of 1913 but the 1st 3 months would not include May.  Also the rest of the passage does not tie in at all.

Some intresting thoughts indeed regarding Grammercy Park in New York City. However it has to be taken into consideration that Grammercy Park is a private park, and is not open to the general public.  Residents in the 39 buildings facing the park have to pay an annual fee to rent a key, and only they have exclusive use of the park. This is as true today as it was in 1981.Thus it seems unlikely that a casque could be buried in the park, even though some of the clues in verse 6 seem very tantalizing.

Think I must concur with Kato

Although I was hopeful for your find Caesar, I was wondering about Edwin Forrest (Warner is the real name). Wasn't the verse really talking about him?  "Edwin and Edwina (Booth) named after him". Do you read into it differently?

Whoever is moderating this thread --- is there a way to move this to the Verse 6 thread? It's probably better off there.  Otherwise, people may think that a treasure has actually been found. Thanks. P.S. - There is also the Booth Theater --- in NYC, and the Forrest Theater --- in Philly. hxxp://www.jimsdeli.com/landmarks/42-51_w/booth-theater.htm hxxp://www.forrest-theatre.com/

Done Mark

I'd love to see some photos, but the coincidences are too much. From the sound of it all, perhaps the casque is by the park and not in the park. wilhouse

Still going for V5, but I think I may have found something useful here.  There used to be a statue of Edwin Forrest at the Forrest mansion in Philly but was bought by Historical Society Of Philadelphia soon after his death.  They are located on Locust Street. Not a park, but I've e-mailed someone who runs The Edwin Forrest Fund ( [email protected] ) trying to locate where this statue is displayed.  Long shot, but maybe a direction to go. Edit:  here's something more interesting.  On July 8, 1776, (on the eighth a scene),hundreds of  people in Philly gathered for the first public reading of the Declaration Of Independence at Independence Square.  It was cheered by the masses and the Liberty Bell was ringing. hxxp://www.birthdayexpress.com/bexpress ... nceDay.asp

"Or on the eight a scene Where law defended" A large gathering for the reading of the Declaration of Independence fits the bill nicely.  I have always assumed that something bad happened on that day.  Those are good finds..... ....if Philly is the case...then what P do we have?

It would have to be P9 or P11, wouldn't it? I'm not liking either one for this V, given the latitude/longitude problem. We could squeeze a 39 and 40 (latitudes for Philly) out of P9 if we squint real hard, though.

Edwin Forrest Durand Street, Philly.  St Micheal's Church.  I was drawn to the window in the center.  Image 9? (Big stretch) hxxp://www.quondam.com/33/3292.htm Look at this map. Bishop White house close to garden.  Not sure what I'm getting at yet. hxxp://www.ushistory.org/districts/hist ... /walnu.htm Edit:  I know now.  The Edwin Forrest Theater and the Bishop White house are both on Walnut Street. hxxp://www.ushistory.org/districts/hist ... /bisho.htm

boogieman wrote:: Look at this map.  Whitehouse Tavern close to garden.  Not sure what I'm getting at yet. hxxp://www.ushistory.org/districts/hist ... /walnu.htm Wow, this brings back memories.  BTW, Boogieman, it is not "Whitehouse Tavern."  It is the Bishop White House at the corner of Walnut and Third.  And, it is "City Tavern" further east on Walnut. I spent 3 years at college visiting the fountain and garden which is located at Walnut & 3rd, just east of the Bishop White House.  The fountain looks almost exactly like the one in Image 4 (now known to be the Cleveland pic).  There is even a church within sight which looks like the hidden upside-down building in Image 4.  I was trying to match it with Verse 3 or Verse 6 ("White house close at hand").  That was 22 years ago.  If you have your "back to the stairs," "all the letters are here to see" (the post office building which can be seen beyond the wall on Chestnut St.), and it is in a green glass building ("a green tower of lights").  Too bad the link does not have a pic of the fountain and garden next to the Bishop White House.  It would have been nice for all of you to see it.

Unknown: Wow, this brings back memories.  BTW, Boogieman, it is not "Whitehouse Tavern."  It is the Bishop White House at the corner of Walnut and Third.  And, it is "City Tavern" further east on Walnut. Yeah, that's me jumping to conclusions.  I had edited that quote just before you posted, (for those of you who didn't catch it).  It is so interesting to find that you have covered some of this before. ( 22 years ago)  Does that give us the right to assume that there's something in Philly?  I think it does.  You better come back to Jersey or FB's got a long drive. LOL

Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water Edwin Forrest's summer home in North Philadelphia was turned into a retirement home for aged and sick actors in 1876, four years after his death.  It was one of his final wishes.  The home retained all of his things.  Props, costumes and such. ( seen here by eyes of old )  Unfortunately, the Edwin Forrest Fund sold the property in 1988, and created a new home in Englewood NJ.  I couldn't find anything on the old property.  I thought that might have been a good lead.  Oh well. hxxp://www.futurefocus.net/afund/edwin_forrest.htm (towards the bottom of page)

Egbert, didn't you once say that Preiss told you that there was no treasure in philly? wilhouse

Nowhere in this forum has anyone said Philly is "out".  V6 only screams Philly.  What was the first place you thought of when you first seen this "Secret"?  Go with it, your probably right.  Red herrings are red herrings.  Com'n lads!

wilhouse wrote:: Egbert, didn't you once say that Preiss told you that there was no treasure in philly? wilhouse As I recall, he said he didn't think he hid one there.  This was in 2001, I believe.  He was not 100% certain, but he seemed pretty sure.  This is when we all thought that the "L" and Bell in Image 4 was  "screaming" Philly.

boogieman wrote:: Nowhere in this forum has anyone said Philly is "out".  V6 only screams Philly.  What was the first place you thought of when you first seen this "Secret"?  Go with it, your probably right.  Red herrings are red herrings.  Com'n lads! I have seen nothing obvious for any of these. The closest obvious is the new orleans mask, and we're still not sure of that! wilhouse

As a 15-year resident of Philadelphia, I'm with Egbert; I spent years trying to find the local site matching Image 4, only to sit back and applaud when it turned out to be in Cleveland.  Since then, I've tried to match other images to Philadelphia, but I've been swayed by suggestions that point to other cities. Obviously, I will be a willing volunteer to assist anyone with Philadelphia leads.

Hey, if nothing comes out of this Philly thing, atleast I got to jog the memories of some of our old timers.  It appears that you guys have forgotten more than I know.  Mind if I keep pressing buttons? Edit: Not that this has anything to do with Philly, but in May 1913, there was an Official Proclamation that all government employees were to wear a white carnation on Mother's Day.  White carnation? Scroll down to Official Proclamation . hxxp://www.pubblinet.com/fioristi/mothers.html

boogieman wrote:: Hey, if nothing comes out of this Philly thing, atleast I got to jog the memories of some of our old timers.  It appears that you guys have forgotten more than I know.  Mind if I keep pressing buttons? Boog - first off, anything that jogs the memories of us old timers is welcome.  secondly, well, speaking as an old timer, press away!! wilhouse

Thank you sir.  I'll do my best. Another tidbit: Freedom at the birth of a century I don't remember this being mentioned before but, 1876 would make one century of independence.  In 1876, our Liberty Bell was recognized as America's symbol of freedom. Would Freedom at the birth of a century fit here? hxxp://www.martinmdb.com/bells.html

Waits the Fair remuneration Most uses of "fair remuneration" found by Google (along with "Charleston") are, curiously, from 19th century texts, and almost all have something to do with slavery. Incidentally, the phrase "fair remuneration" crops up on a web page about the Hunley, which has come up before in this forum: hxxp://www.usni.org/NavalHistory/Articles02/NHhore06.htm . Fair is capitalized probably as a reference to the fair folk. White house close at hand "White house" in Spanish is "casa blanca," if that leads to any fruitful lines of thought. I found one (but only one) reference to a "Casa Blanca Plantation" in the county just NE of Charleston: hxxp://south-carolina-plantations.com/georgetown/casa-blanca.html . It struck me today that at hand is unnecessary in this line except to rhyme with "sand," and therefore perhaps significant. Why use hand ? Is there something in the vicinity of the casque that finds a "white house" close to a "hand"? Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Between / Below / Beside : These are the words that take us to where X marks the spot. These lines, together with the references to pirates, fairly scream "the casque is buried midway between two cannons linked by an iron bar, which can be found near a South Carolina flag in White Point Gardens."

It was pointed out elsewhere that Edwin and Edwina Booth were named for Edwin Forrest, a Shakespearen actor and also famous I think for Spartucus.

"Freedom at the birth of a century" Can this not also mean that the civil war in the United States ended just about one hundred years after the colonies won their independence.  Freedom for the slaves. "And the bar that binds, between arms extended" That describes a punishment device of the colonies where the head and hands are locked into a wooden structure with a metal bar coming down and locking.

Or this...... hxxp://citypaper.net/articles/2006-03-09/theater.shtml

And down the block from the theater... hxxp://www.ushistory.org/tour/tour_bishop.htm

I think this was posted as well: hxxp://www.ushistory.org/districts/hist ... /walnu.htm Forest, where did you find that structure?  Or is it just a prop for re-enactments?

Oh sorry, I wan't being serious. These (replying to Trohn) are the stocks in Williamsburg, Virginia at their old location next to the Public Gaol.

A virtual tour..... Washington Square in Philadephia Northern Border is Walnut Street.... between 8th and 7th...  Edwin Booth statue in the Freedom Theater (a scene on 8th) corner of 6th and Walnut... Penn Mutual Insurance "The facade of John Haviland's 1838 Egyptian Revival design was retained intact and serves as a faux facade." Wanna bet that someone will match up the Panther head from the lower left of the image to this building. Also here, oringally, and I am sure marked as so, ... the site of Robert Smith's historic Walnut Street Jail which stood from 1775 to 1835.  Look at the keys in the image and think that they look like jail cell openers. In the park grows a sycamore tree with seeds planted on May 6, 1975. The seeds were carried to the mon by astronuat Stuart Roosa (meaning Red) on Apollo XIV.  The bicentennial moon tree" grows less than a hundred yards from where the first space flight in America occurred. Bishop White house, as mentioned, is on 3rd and Walnut. Pretty good fit, just need to find the sand along Walnut.

SAND AND PALM FOUND. Dreamy Dreams Anchoring the north side of Washington Square is the Curtis Center, home to Curtis Publishing (a stop along our "virtual" tour). From these offices came The Saturday Evening Post, The Ladies Home Journal, and Jack and Jill. Here too, was an organization with a love for the arts. Not only is the Beaux Arts building, designed by Edgar Seeler in 1910, a natural extension of the Square on the outside, but the inside contains a Tiffany studios glass-mosaic recreation of Maxfield Parrish's The Dream Garden. Here in the midst of the chaotic world of publishing is Parrish's serene, time-out-of-mind, garden scene. The mosaic consists of over 100,000 pieces of hand-fired glass in 260 color tones which measures 15 feet high by 49 feet wide. All are encouraged to visit the dreamy dream artwork. The Center's atrium also contains one of the finest fountain-waterfalls in the city. A terraced waterfall languidly licks its way down obsidian slopes from the atrium's third floor to the ground level. The atrium itself is filled with faux Egyptian palms — indeed the fountain would not seem out of place at the court of Ramses II. We've Reached the Northeast Corner... At the corner of 6th and Walnut Streets, on the Square's eastern side, is an office building belonging to the Penn Mutual Insurance Company. In 1913, Edgar Seeler, architect of the Curtis Center, also designed this structure. The adjacent skyscraper also belonging to Penn Mutual is of interest. The facade of John Haviland's 1838 Egyptian Revival design for the Pennsylvania Fire Insurance Co. was retained intact and serves as a faux facade for the skyscraper. Go to Jail Penn Mutual was built on the site of Robert Smith's historic Walnut Street Jail which stood from 1775 to 1835. This prison was the site of the earliest experiments in criminal rehabilitation in the United States. After serving as a brutal military prison for both sides in the Revolutionary War, it underwent change in 1790 when the Pennsylvania Assembly passed a series of prison reform bills. New prison practice included segregation of the sexes, separation of juveniles from adults, and the creation of distinct prisons for debtors and felons. George Washington spent a good amount of time in the debtor's prison — visiting his good friend Robert Morris, the financier of the Revolution. Morris had fallen on hard times, in part due to his attempt at building a personal Xanadu on High (Market) Street which bankrupted him. Not even Washington's friendship could keep Morris from jail. Prisoners in the debtor's prison were allowed to bring with them any possessions they still owned. However, they remained in limbo being as their sentences were of indeterminant length. Release came only after the scofflaw's finances took a turn for the better or someone on the outside provided capital. Prisoners in the Walnut Street Jail worked off the cost of their incarceration in prison workshops where they produced goods which were then sold. The prisoner was given a moiety of whatever the product sold for less the cost of his incarceration. Court and attorneys' fees were also deducted from what a prisoner earned. Artisans trained prisoners in rewarding crafts, and as a result recidivism dropped sharply.

Someone is going to have to do reconasence on this site. I can not find any  good shots of the Curtis courtyard. I canot find any good matches to the suit either but I am not too discouraged. Walnut Theater has Edwin Forrest displays ( the marble statue of him went in 1986 - post book)  The oldest continuous theater in the US. Forrest Theater (named for him) is on Walnut and Eighth. Curtis Buidling went up in 1910.  Dream Garden installed in 1915. Penn Mutual Life buidling (former site of the Jail) went up in 1913. (Corner of Washington Sqr) I have a shot of the buidling from a distance, but couldn't see the Egyptian relief work.  I also couldn't see the park'ss corner. If there is a statue commenorating the jail, that would be "Where the law defended.... below the bar that binds" I image the Curtis courtyard flows into the Park here. Anyone closer than my five hour drive? Random.... Thoughts about bubbles... Flower in Bubble is for the Moon Tree. Also, the Keystone state. Also, I am assuming that the Suit of Armor is either a theater prop or a Saturday Evening Post cover.

Edwin and Edwina named after him: May have no relation, but Edwin Booth was named after Edwin Forrest (1806-1872 - a prominent actor from PA I believe) and had a daughter named Edwina Booth.  Edwin Booth's brother was John Wilkes Booth who assassinated Lincoln. Anyone done any research on Edwin Forrest fitting into this verse? Edit - Trohn:  Sorry, I had not read the thread except a few things and skimmed others.  I was in a hurry, and just wanted to get my thought out there.  I just got the book yesterday and was spending most time on p6 (lots of info matched up there potentially with v5, and will confirm it this weekend armed with book and camera), but also looking at some things within the verses here and there.  Actually ran into this going down a dead end in relation to p6!

See my tour of Philadeplphia in this thread. Forrest Theater on Chestnut.

Full steam ahead on another front... "May 1913" home.hawaii.rr.com/theatreleague/actors'_equity.htm Started as the "Players Club" by Edwin Booth a number of years prior. This is why the verse has two ORs. The founding of The Players Club (at the turn of the century - 1876) and then after his death the chnaging it to the AEA. This all took place in the same building:  16 Gramacy Park, New York City. (has a statue of Edwin Booth out in the Park) When Booth bought the place, he had it totaly renovated by a renown arhcitrect who lived down the block:  S. White His home is now the Gramacery Hotel. No image to place it to and not fully sold on the complete verse, but interesting options here for those striving for a New York find.

May 1913 May 1 Longacre Theater opens at 220 W 48th St. New York City May 6 King Nikita I of Montenegro vacates Skoetari, North-Albania May 7 British House of Commons rejects woman's right to vote May 9 17th amendment provides for election of senators by popular vote May 10 39th Kentucky Derby: Roscoe Goose aboard Donerail wins in 2:04.8 May 10 Yanks commit 8 errors and still beat Tigers 10-9 in 10 innings May 12 Harry Green runs world record marathon (2:38:16.2) May 13 1st 4 engine aircraft built and flown (Igor Sikorsky-Russia) May 14 French Hals museum opens in Harleem Netherlands May 14 Washington Senator Walter Johnson ends record scorless streak at 56 innings May 19 Webb Alien Land-Holding Bill passes, forbidding Japs from owning land May 20 38th Preakness: James Butwell aboard Buskin wins in 1:53.4 May 26 Actors' Equity Association forms (New York City) May 30 1st Balkan War ends, Treaty of London May 30 John McGraw joins Fred Clarke, Cap Anson, Frank Selee, and Connie Mack May 30 New country of Albania, forms May 31 17th amendment (direct election of senators) declared ratified May 31 Alexis Ahlgren runs world record maraton (2:36:06.6) Only a few notables in the United States.

White House close at hand hxxp://www.nyc-architecture.com/GRP/GRP006.htm

Daughter and Grandson named after him!! (only the elder Edwin was named for Forrest) The elder Booth, on stage since the age of 17, was a rival of Edmund Kean's in London and acted and managed several theaters in the United States from 1821 on. Edwin Booth made his first appearance at 16 in his father's company, playing Richard III as had his father. He made his first visit to London in 1861. From 1863-1867, Edwin Booth was the manager of the Winter Garden on Broadway in New York City. In the 1864-1865 season he played the role of Hamlet 100 times, a record unbroken until John Barrymore's 101 in 1922. Also in 1864, Booth played Brutus in Julius Caesar with his brothers John Wilkes Booth as Anthony and Junius Brutus Booth, Jr. as Cassius. This was their only performance together. On March 23, 1867, the theater burned down just as Booth was about to appear as Romeo. He built his own theater, Booth's, on 6th Avenue and 23rd Street in New York City, opening in 1869 with Romeo and Juliet. This venture was not successful and Booth went bankrupt in 1873. Booth did return to successful touring in the United States, England and Germany. In 1881 he appeared at the Lyceum in London at the invitation of Henry Irving, alternating with him the roles of Othello and Iago. In 1888 Booth presented his house in Gramercy Square to the newly founded Players' Club. He served as the first president of the club, kept a suite of rooms there and died in office. Edwin Booth was married twice: on July 7, 1860 to Mary Devlin Booth (5/19/1840-2/21/1863), who died after a brief illness and on June 7, 1869 to Mary McVicker Booth (9/1848-11/13/1881). Both wives had done some acting before marriage. Mary Devlin Booth was the mother of Edwin Booth's only surviving child, Edwina Booth Grossman (12/9/1861-12/25/1938). Concerned for her father's legacy, Edwina Booth Grossman published a book of recollections of her father including edited transcriptions of many of his letters. She married Ignatius Grossman and had two children: Mildred Booth Grossman Tilton and Clarence Edwin Booth Grossman, an artist and member of the Players' Club who went by Edwin as an adult and died in 1957. Positive New York City connection!

The elder Booth, Junius, named the younger Booth, Edwin his son, after Edwin Forrest.  No?  Thought we went through this gramercy park thing like eight months ago.

But beyond THAT- Edwin Booth's daughter and grandson were named after HIM. Haven't seen that discussion, but the date jumped out. Why a month and year only?

Trohn wrote:: White House close at hand hxxp://www.nyc-architecture.com/GRP/GRP006.htm This is the kind of play on words we should expect from BP.  White House not referring to either "THE" White House or a white colored house but a house resided in by the White family.  I like it. Gramercy Park was discussed some time ago and kind of just faded.  I always like the connections made then and this makes it even more intriguing.

caesar1812 wrote:: So pair that little nugget with the line that references edwin and edwina.  The greatest American stage actor is Edwin Booth, brother of assassin John Wilkes Booth.  Guess what - Edwin (his son) and Edwina(his  grandaughter) dedicated a statue in his honor in Gramercy Park in NYC in the early 1900's.  Why was this statue placed in Gramercy Park?  Well, that would be because Edwin Booth lived for decades on the park, until his death in 1893.  In fact, Edwin founded the original "Players Club" and it was located on the southern border of the park.  Because actors and artisits were so looked down upon in the 19th century, Booth created a "high-class" destination for his ilk.  Guess who designed the Players Club for Booth - Stanford White.  One of the most famous of American architects, White redesigned most of the surrounding edifices on Gramercy Park.  Thus, "white house close at hand".  Monuments and plaques in the area readily attest to it.  BTW, did I mention that the Gramercy area was settled exclusively by the English?  It is the area of NYC most connected to the English.  Now, consider the lines about birds and water.  Gramercy has always been legendary as a sanctuary for birds in the city and famous as a bird-watching spot.  The fountain is a little iffy for me though.  I have found historical references to fountains in the park, but do not know if there was one in '81. OK Trohn, I get it now.  Sorry. edit: Are we tying in to another link to Lincoln?

Slightly new look at the verses... Only focusing on the first line, as it, in most(?) instances draw us directly to what BP wanted us to concentrate on... "Romance Retold" in google brings uo a solid two winners in this search.. "Quest for the Holy Grail" "Treasure Island" (long john silver)

Trohn wrote:: Slightly new look at the verses... Only focusing on the first line, as it, in most(?) instances draw us directly to what BP wanted us to concentrate on... "Romance Retold" in google brings uo a solid two winners in this search.. "Quest for the Holy Grail" "Treasure Island" (long john silver) and... Go on.

boogieman wrote:: and... Go on. no... thats all I got with that

How about "Romance Retold" = as excerpted from The Romance of Old Philadelphia, by John T. Faris, published by J.P. Lippincott in 1918 The Publishing House located on Washington Square The book also discusses... "The yard of the gaol was the scene of one of the spectacular incidents of the period of Washington's residence in Philadelphia. On January 9, 1793, the French aeronaut Blanchard made there the first balloon ascension in America" The Faerie in Image 3 looks alot like holding onto a balloon. In addition, I know it's a stretch (BP may or may not have seen similar pics) but look at this link. It looks eerily like the Image 3 spheres. hxxp://southjerseyghostresearch.org/cases/20030b.html

Golden Gate Park Conservatory of Flowers hxxp://www.flickr.mud.yahoo.com/photos/ ... 254216163/ "Besides the long palm's shadow" "White House close at Hand" could hand be a play on words...

And an unexplored clue on this verse... "Harken" an unusual choice for sure. Shakespeare is the most famous one to use this term.  And I know that within the Shakespeare gardens of GGP, there are plaques of his quotes. still fleshing this out...

Verse 6 uses more history in its clues than the other verses. Wikipedia was helpful in finding many of these clues. I’m really starting to like Wikipedia. Here is what turtle123456 and I found so far. The links are in blue. Of all the romance retold Drama and theater. Treasure Island reference may be used to represent another treasure island, Manhattan Island? Men of tales and tunes Actors and theater. Cruel and bold Shakespeare or Elizabethan theatre? Seen here Astor Place Opera House By eyes of old Astor Place Opera House stood from 1847 to 1854 . Stand and listen to the birds Stand, not sit. Why stand? Parks always have birds. Maybe this is to move us from the Astor Place Opera House to the park. Hear the cool, clear song of water There is a large fountain in the center of park next to the Arch. Harken to the words: Harken, from Old English . Reference to theater from the past? Freedom at the birth of a century Washington Square Arch . The inscription on one side of the Arch reads "TO COMMEMORATE THE ONE HUNDREDTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE INAUGURATION OF GEORGE WASHINGTON AS FIRST PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES" Or May 1913 Washington Square Park . On May 3, 1913 , an estimated 10,000 women's suffrage advocates assembled in Washington Square Park and then marched eight abreast up Fifth Avenue in support of their cause. Edwin Edwina named after him Edwin Forrest . Or on the eighth a scene Eighth Street was the site of the Astor Place Riot . Edwin Forrest ’s feud with the English actor William Macready sparked the so-called Astor Place Riot on May 10, 1849.  Astor Place Opera House is bordered by Broadway, Astor Place and 8th St. "The 7th Regiment marched up Broadway to Astor Place, wheeled right and, though coming under fierce bombardment, managed to force through the crowd to a position in the rear of the Opera House on Eighth Street.” Where law defended “ The police force , obviously insufficient, became trapped with their backs up against the building, and the National Guard from the Seventh Regiment, already mobilized and prepared, was called in. They marched back down on Broadway and turned again into Astor Place, but the crowd was so thick and belligerent that they were forced to proceed in single file, squeezing themselves between the building and the mob.” Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Final spot phrases. This line may need some feet on the ground in Washington Square Park. Embedded in the sand Buried. Waits the Fair remuneration Waiting for us to recover of the casque. White house close at hand. Stanford White , an important American architect, designed Washington Square Arch (1889) and Judson Memorial Church on South West side of Washington Square. An interesting resource I came across for researching New York is New York Songlines . The website allows you to move through the streets on virtual history tour. It was a little tricky when north did not stay up, but fun. The three streets for the Astor Place Riot are 8th Street , Lafayette Street , Broadway . Astor Pl. is the fourth street but it is only two blocks long and has no Songline. The four streets for Washington Square Park are Washington Square North/ Waverly Pl. , Washington Square South/ 4th St. , Washington Square East/ University Pl. , and Mac Dougal St. There have been a few movies and television shows filmed in Washington Square Park. At least the first four productions can be bought. 1967 Barefoot in the Park - All footage is in scene 16. Nice wide shot filming. 1993 Searching for Bobbie Fischer - Little scenes of park throughtout the movie. 1995 Kids - Nothing good in movie. 2002 Gilmore Girls - Lorelai's Graduation Day - Episode 21 of Season 2 - Only shows small patch of grass next to street. None Sesame Street Episodes 2007 I am Legend - post-production

Just reading the last post, so I might make multiple posts here... "Treasure Island" is a island off of San Fransico and supports the Bay Bridge (between Oakland and SF) I like this place because the roadway off and onto the island(s) is called Serpentine Drive.

In 1988 Treasure Island was a US Navy base and you were not allowed onto the island without official business. You could get off the bridge at Yerba Buena Island but there was no access to treasure island without passing through the base gate. and as treasure island  is an artificial island 99% of it is and was paved.

Sonoran wrote:: Or on the eighth a scene This is a good line to take as a line by itself, not running it into the following line to make a sentence.  I like the alternative of using "eighth" as a street rather than a date. (It could just as well be a train line, as someone might say they rode in "on the 8th", maybe.)  And every word has been chosen for a reason, so there must be particular signficance in saying it was "a scene" -- i have always like the Edwin Forrest backstory, and a theatrical scene would be the best use of this word, not just an event on a street.

catherwood wrote:: This is a good line to take as a line by itself, not running it into the following line to make a sentence.  I like the alternative of using "eighth" as a street rather than a date. (It could just as well be a train line, as someone might say they rode in "on the 8th", maybe.)  And every word has been chosen for a reason, so there must be particular signficance in saying it was "a scene" -- i have always like the Edwin Forrest backstory, and a theatrical scene would be the best use of this word, not just an event on a street. I agree with this line of thought, but the Edwin Forrest theories (either New York, Philadelphia, or San Francisco) have led to dead ends and blind alleys.  Maybe fresh eyes and thoughts can find the right Forrest combinations...

I have narrowed the spot to dig at washington square park down to an area just west of the haning tree that is in the northwewst corner of the park, the two arms extended= two arm of the tree .... below the bar that binds= the rail around the tree by walkway beside the long palm shadow=where shadow of tree crosses the railing toward the house location white house close at hand= there used to be a house just west of the tree i hope this helps someone go and dig it up. i would like to see that happen

Didnt BP specifically rule out Manhattan? Im pretty sure he did? Anybody remember?

He ruled out Central Park, but Washington Square Park is still a possibility I think.

turtle123456 wrote:: I have narrowed the spot to dig at washington square park down to an area just west of the haning tree that is in the northwewst corner of the park, the two arms extended= two arm of the tree .... below the bar that binds= the rail around the tree by walkway beside the long palm shadow=where shadow of tree crosses the railing toward the house location white house close at hand= there used to be a house just west of the tree i hope this helps someone go and dig it up. i would like to see that happen I need some help from anyone in the new york area. If they could go to washington park and take pictures of the hanging tree area, i will be able to direct them to a dig location

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:070129-SWR009.jpg

THANKS FALCON BUT I NEED PHOTOS OF THE AREA BEHIND THE TREE TO GIVE A PLACE TO PUT THE SHOVEL IN THE GROUND

turtle123456 wrote:: I need some help from anyone in the new york area. If they could go to washington park and take pictures of the hanging tree area, i will be able to direct them to a dig location As soon as Fox gets out here (east coast), between Washington Square and JPJ Park , maybe we can dig something up.  Early July, I believe.  Fox, get your internet back up!

yeah yeah yeah...sorry about the whole lack of internet....it really sucks i must say.  July 12 is when we fly in..probably late .

I'll be available anytime after July 13th.  I still like v10 for NY, just need that darned v.  Still waiting on Shecrab's Canadian ideas though. My real problem with image12 being at Washington Square are the following: The references to New jersey.  The backwards NJ on her right shoulder and the map of upper NJ in the hair on her right shoulder when the image is flipped.  The dark shadowy S and I under her arm pits, Staten Island .  I know not everyone sees the things, but it convinces me that it has to be in the harbor rather than in the middle of Manhattan.  Finding a reference to Brooklyn though, has proved to be very tough.  Although the arch of the Verrazano looks perfect for image12.  And, if we could ever flatten out the robe, we might see the face of Giovanni Da Verrazano himself. hxxp://www.italianhistorical.org/verrazzano.htm  To this end, I must keep all options open, and will stick a darned shovel in the ground for all possible dig sites.

Hey guys, Turtle123456 and I believe we have made a discovery. Over the last few days we studied the 1967 movie “Barefoot in the Park”. One scene in the movie has a great look at Washington Square Park. While studying that scene Turtle had a revelation. Although the movie wasn’t needed to reach this revelation it turned out to be the trigger for a solution. We were certain of Washington Square Park being the park where a casque was buried. The verse lines “Stand and listen to the birds” and “Hear the cool, clear sound of water” in combination with other lines put us in this park with the fountain. But we had not narrowed these three lines: Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow We were starting to think that either the park may have changed too much to find these lines or some hunters were needed in the park to find what was not being found in pictures. So, here is what we have. There are two monuments/ statues in the park. The one we are focusing on is for Alexander Holley. We looked at pictures of this statue many times before, but never looked close enough or gave it much attention, until now. Between two arms extended The monument has two upright posts standing to each side of Holley. These are the extended arms. They are extended away from the main pedestal. At the top of each post is a palm leaf pattern. Below the bar that binds There is a wall connecting the pedestal and the two satellite posts. This should be the bar. The wall holds/ binds the arms to the main column. Beside the long palm's shadow This one is really fun! If you look at the pattern just below the bust you will see a strong sculpted palm leaf . There is a palm leaf on each of the four sides of the pedestal . Because the column is somewhat slender and tall this would be the long palm. As opposed to the two shorter "palms" on each side. So, where would we dig? So far we have “Between” the outside posts, “Below” the connecting wall and “Beside” the main pedestal’s shadow. The most logical spot seems to directly behind the middle of the monument. There is only a short distance from the structure to normal park ground behind the monument. It is an ideal spot for a shovel. A far second choice may be centered out in front of the monument past the wide base. Because of a much further distance from the monument, this doesn’t seem likely to me. The area behind the monument was usually covered in dirt or grass. Changes to the area have included covering the whole area in asphalt . So, a dig would be a little more involved. We are searching for a date when the dirt was covered in asphalt . Although we are sure this area had to be dirt covered in 1982, it would be nice to know when the asphalt was added around the monument . As Boogieman mentioned earlier there is a plan for a major renovation of Washington Square Park . This construction includes relocating the Holley Monument. Today, the monument sits with its back towards the fountain. The new design has moved Holley more to the northwest. This complete park renovation is currently held up in court battles . If the renovation continues soon we may need to move quickly. I figure the renovation could be anywhere from the ideal time to coordinate a dig with the parks department to being the worst time to get permission for a dig. It seems to me the best time to dig is before the renovation even starts . Turtle and I may be too far from New York to effectively coordinate a dig. It would be great, and completely fine with us if someone closer to New York wanted to take on making plans for a dig in the park. Would anyone in the New York area be interested in helping coordinate things at the park?

That, my friendly desert dweller, is INGENIUS!  I have only one question: Why the h@{{ did it take you guys so long to find this message board?  We sure could've used you long long long ago Boogie...this sounds like it!  Can you please please please wait 3 more weeks?  I know the temptation must be killing you.  My son & I will be arriving in NY on the 12th of July (I think around 6 pm) and I would sure love to be involved in the dig. (ok, so its a mop but it kind of looks like a shovel)

wait a sec, what about your almost perfect solution with verse 10 and image 12.  The V?  I thought you guys had it? Interesting ideas anyway.

well, like boogie said above....w/ JPJ Park & Washington Sq Park, we are bound to come up with something.  It may be another time when we are forcing a fit but some of those ideas really intrigue me.

Hoping to go take some pics on Sunday.  Fox, I'll be available anytime after the 13th. and I'm not digging by myself! Besides, Turtlle believes the casque has been paved over.  I hope, for everyone's sake, that it is still attainable.

hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/shamrocktattoo/410974751/ Here's a pick of Turtle's and Sonoran's dig site.  Tough to dig in that. Turtle, how did you find that the ground was all dirt back in 82'?  I've been there before, don't know when, but it was a long time ago.  Can't say i remember that statue.

I have a hard time believing it's there beside the monument. It's a very public place, and someone burying a fiberglass cube would have drawn a lot of attention at any time of day.

also, where the nugget is the white house?  Perhaps BP meant for "sand" to actually be sand. -regulus

boogieman wrote:: Here's a pick of Turtle's and Sonoran's dig site.  Tough to dig in that. still trying to devise a plan to sneak the darn thing into the overhead bins on Delta I still believe that this theory definitely merits some more investigation.  Desert Terripin sure has come up w/ some very interesting ideas concerning V6.  I really like the "8th a scene" idea.  It is also quite interesting that there happen to be representations of palm trees at that site.  Reg, the white house, or should I say White house (as in Mr. White) could very well be the nearby church (house of God) he built.  Viola, a White house. but.... if this is correct, than our JPJ theory (which has as many very intriguing ideas) is out... unless....... could there be 2 casques that close together?  I highly doubt it.  Only 3 weeks til I'm up there Boogie, we had better get busy and have some very concrete (eek, back to the Holley statue) plans...not sure if my wife is going to want me spending our whole vacation searching for a casque

forest_blight wrote:: I have a hard time believing it's there beside the monument. It's a very public place, and someone burying a fiberglass cube would have drawn a lot of attention at any time of day. I agree that it would be hard to bury something next to a prominent monument, although the match to the verse is intriguing. Maybe I missed something, though, could someone explain how they matched Washington Square Park to the verse to begin with?  Is it because of the "On the 8th. a scene" line or is there more? On the 8th. could also mean 8 o'clock, the 8th of the month or a scene in August (8th month). As for when the concrete was added....the monument was restored in 1999. I would guess that that is when they added the concrete to the base. Shannon

I'm sure Turtle and Sonoran will post what they have found.  Here is a close shot of the eagle on the Arch Monument.

Sorry for interpretting but...I still like the seal...

Trohn wrote:: Sorry for interpretting but...I still like the seal... Me too Trohn.  Me too.  But I'll take either one at this point.

bucfan wrote:: Just for the record, based on what I've read here and what I can make out on the scans I have downloaded, I'm convinced Verse 6 and Image 9 are paired and point to St. Louis. But that's just me. (quoted from Introductions) I'm intrigued. Why V6? With all the references to sailors, sand, and palms I would have though somewhere on the coast would be a more appropriate choice.

shseverin11 wrote:: I agree that it would be hard to bury something next to a prominent monument, although the match to the verse is intriguing. Maybe I missed something, though, could someone explain how they matched Washington Square Park to the verse to begin with?  Is it because of the "On the 8th. a scene" line or is there more? On the 8th. could also mean 8 o'clock, the 8th of the month or a scene in August (8th month). As for when the concrete was added....the monument was restored in 1999. I would guess that that is when they added the concrete to the base. Shannon Shannon if you look at the secret wiki page it will help , as for how he could of buried the treasure at the time he would have been between the holly monument and a hedge bush where he could have hidden easily.

good luck with the Jackhammers.  Also, why don't you guys dig if JPJ park?  Try that too!

regulus wrote:: good luck with the Jackhammers.  Also, why don't you guys dig if JPJ park?  Try that too! You'll need the jackhammer.  My husband works in Manhattan and managed to scout out the Holley memorial last night. He said there's concrete surrounding it in all directions. If I can figure out how to get the pcitures off of his phone, I'll post them. I'll chedk out the Secret Wiki section, but my husband has his doubts because he couldn't seeing anything resembling the pictures around the park. Of course, that doesn't mean that they're not there. I just don't want the people traveling to NY to get their hopes up too much. Shannon

already traveling to NY w/ high hopes....but it is because of the Dispatch concert... don't count boogie and I out just yet though......

Just let me know when and where you want to start Fox. Dispatch concert? Anyway, if you are staying in Manhattan, Washington Square should be first.  Then we can take a ride over the Brooklyn Bridge and go down to JPJ Park and the Verrazano.  Make sure you go to the top of the Empire State Building and use those huge binoculars and look for the domed church.  Your wife won't suspect you are treasure hunting so it won't count on the meter!

The area behind the Holley Monument has changed over the years. For a long time there was a large planting area behind the monument. At some time that whole dirt area has been removed and paved over with asphalt. In “Barefoot in the Park” clips you can see the fence is about 2 feet (about the width of Robert Redford's shoulders) behind the upper structure. The monument’s stone foundation base is also about 2 feet wide behind the monument. There would be no room to dig between the fence and the monument. But, right on the other side of that fence there would have been plenty of dirt and maybe a lot of cover from bushes. There would have been full concealment from the monument on one side and may have been substantial concealment from the fence line and bushes on other sides. Here is a link to some history of the park and an aerial picture of that planting area on page 311 left side, second picture down. Monument is on left side of picture. Resolution is pretty good for zooming in. hxxp://www.nycgovparks.org/download/download.php?downloadFile=WSP_EAS/WSP_EAS_final.pdf Following are some pictures from over the years.

Early picture and 1920's picture.

1967 “Barefoot in the Park” clips. Robert Redford seems to catch his elbow on the fence just a little as he lifts his shoes. So I am guesing the area between monument and fence was shoulder width.

Current side view.

There may be an unexpected and interesting way to match the clues in Verse 6 to the Alexander Lyman Holley Monument. There seem to be similarities between the monument and the illustration on pages 2 and 3 of The Secret ! The more I stare at the similarities the more they seem to jump off the page. But, I was wondering what you guys think? Here are the similarities I see. On the Holley monument there is an egg-and-dart pattern around the top of the pedestal. In the illustration the top banisters mimic that egg-and-dart pattern. On the Holley monument there is some scrollwork below the “HOLLEY” name. In the illustration the scrollwork seems to be echoed in both the fence and the pedestal inlay. On the Holley monument there are palm leaf sculptures at the top of each of the four sides of the pedestal. In the illustration there are sculptures at the top of each of the three visible sides of the pedestal. In the fence design there are two horizontal lines of rod iron at the top. In the illustration there are also two horizontal lines. There are couple more items in the illustration to be noted. The first item is the gem centered in the inlay on the pedestal. The second item, of course, is that shovel being held pointing down on the side of pedestal. Although the illustration may not be intended to be used for clues, it does make the New York location more intriguing!

There seems to be another buried clue or coincidence on page 4, again relating to Verse 6. This clue was probably not intended to be a clue and is likely an unintentional connection. On page 4 the “7th regiment US Army New York“ is mentioned in the contributor acknowledgements. This is the exact same 7th regiment that put down the Astor Place Riot referred to in the Verse 6 lines “Edwin and Edwina named after him” and “On the eight a scene” and “Where law defended”. The 7th Regiment Armory (Park Avenue Armory) was used for pictures on pages 100-102. Was this coincidence or inspiration?

I'm new to the hunt, so please bear with me -- but I was working on two different approaches to Verse 6, and -- should you guys come up empty handed, part of what I have so far may be something to consider (assuming some re-arranging of the way lines are divided): (Just so you know -- My answer for the hinted at location is Jackson Park, Chicago, IL, built on the old World Fair Grounds, and where a small replica of the Daniel Chester French statue "Republic" stands with arms outstretched.) My almost complete line-by-line breakdown of the verses is this: Men of tales and tunes cruel and bold seen here by eyes of old -- Historical Gangters Stand and listen to the Bird's -- Charley "Yardbird" Parker was a famous jazz muscician of the Chicago Hear the song of cool, clean water -- this is a double reference and a joke:  a replica of Su Song's ancient Chinese water clock is in the Chicago Museum of Science.  Also, Muddy Waters was another great muscician in Chicago Harken to the words: Freedom (There  is the Chicago Freedom Movement started by Dr. Martin Luther King.) at the birth of a century or (not quite sure what to make of this line -- so many options) May -- Chicago May was the name of a turn of the century crime queen living in the city's high society 1913 Edwin (Hubble) -- and Edwin A(ldrin) named after him -- Hubble spent time at the Chicago observatory starting in 1914, before which he was a lawyer, much later Buzz Aldrin then went to the moon, but I have not been able to conclusively prove one was named after the other, or both were named after someone else. On the Eigth a scene where law defended -- the trial of the Chicago 8 turned into the Trial of the Chicago 7 when the case was declared a mis-trial for one of the defendants Between two arms extended -- I wasn't really taking this seriously until I saw the picture of the Republic statue Below the bar that binds Besides the long palm's shadow -- the statue is holding up a bar-shaped plaque with the word "Liberty" on it, bound by a long wreath of palmetto leaves Embedded in the sand -- check the sandy area Waites the Fair remuneration -- Chicago's World Fair was held here, mostly on modified landfill White house close at hand -- there is one building still on site left from that Fair (now a nearby museum), which at the time was called "The White City" I have more stuff, using another method that I am working on Excell graph sheets with, and I will post that as soon as I get things in order.  Meanwhile, I do hope that the trip to NY isn't wasted (it seems too big a city to pass by for this hunt, according to my common sense feelings...I guess with my luck I shall either be spot on for major parts of this hunt, or wandering amoung the daisies for a while longer. ) (Of course, what was interesting about this is that someone Just Today (TM) kindly pointed out to me the Chicago location was found long ago -- which can be a fascinating study in how close I can get to something by working on incorrectly percieved info!)

[quote="meow"] I'm new to the hunt, so please bear with me -- but I was working on two different approaches to Verse 6, and -- should you guys come up empty handed, part of what I have so far may be something to consider (assuming some re-arranging of the way lines are divided): (Just so you know -- My answer for the hinted at location is Jackson Park, Chicago, IL, built on the old World Fair Grounds, and where a small replica of the Daniel Chester French statue "Republic" stands with arms outstretched.) My almost complete line-by-line breakdown of the verses is this: Men of tales and tunes cruel and bold seen here by eyes of old -- Historical Gangters Stand and listen to the Bird's -- Charley "Yardbird" Parker was a famous jazz muscician of the Chicago Hear the song of cool, clean water -- this is a double reference and a joke:  a replica of Su Song's ancient Chinese water clock is in the Chicago Museum of Science.  Also, Muddy Waters was another great muscician in Chicago Harken to the words: Freedom (There  is the Chicago Freedom Movement started by Dr. Martin Luther King.) at the birth of a century or (not quite sure what to make of this line -- so many options) May -- Chicago May was the name of a turn of the century crime queen living in the city's high society 1913 Edwin (Hubble) -- and Edwin A(ldrin) named after him -- Hubble spent time at the Chicago observatory starting in 1914, before which he was a lawyer, much later Buzz Aldrin then went to the moon, but I have not been able to conclusively prove one was named after the other, or both were named after someone else. On the Eigth a scene where law defended -- the trial of the Chicago 8 turned into the Trial of the Chicago 7 when the case was declared a mis-trial for one of the defendants Between two arms extended -- I wasn't really taking this seriously until I saw the picture of the Republic statue Below the bar that binds Besides the long palm's shadow -- the statue is holding up a bar-shaped plaque with the word "Liberty" on it, bound by a long wreath of palmetto leaves Embedded in the sand -- check the sandy area Waites the Fair remuneration -- Chicago's World Fair was held here, mostly on modified landfill White house close at hand -- there is one building still on site left from that Fair (now a nearby museum), which at the time was called "The White City" I have more stuff, using another method that I am working on Excell graph sheets with, and I will post that as soon as I get things in order.  Meanwhile, I do hope that the trip to NY isn't wasted (it seems too big a city to pass by for this hunt, according to my common sense feelings...I guess with my luck I shall either be spot on for major parts of this hunt, or wandering amoung the daisies for a while longer. ) [/what pic goes the verse

Very nice breakdown of the V meow...that is very well thought out and explained for someone who has never done one of these before....but  ( there always has to be a but) The very first casque located (not too long after the hunt began) was found in Grant Park..Chicago.  I find it very unlikely BP (Byron Preiss for our new friends) would bury 2 casques in the same city.  Unfortunately, I think this is a prime example of how almost any location can be made to fit.  Definitely not a slap at you Meow...we all have done it and, I believe, will continue doing it until we can dig up another one of these bad boys.  With that kind of thinking, you are definitely an asset to our team & I will once again Welcome you aboard...

I just saw a program on TV that said there is a small white house in Key West.  This house was used by President Truman.  Has this been said before?

I believe I have identified Edwin and Edwina, and who they were named after. Taking inspiration from The Giant Squid's discovery of Sarmiento's quote from Verse 2, I did a Google Book Search for a few key phrases. in THE EXACT SAME BOOK , "Abroad in America: Visitors to the New Nation, 1776-1914" (Smithsonian Institution, 1976) where Sarmiento's quote can be found on p. 110, we have on p. 164 (emphasis added): In his search for converts to the colonization cause, Blyden concentrated on Charleston with its large black population and important newspaper, the News and Courier , whose editors were sympathetic. Many in Charleston sought from Blyden news of the South Carolinians who had emigrated a dozen years before. He was enthusiastically welcomed; he even had twin babies named after him, Edwin and Edwina Wilmot Blyden, during his stay ." ...thus definitively linking Verse 6 to Charleston, SC. The Blyden in question was Edward Wilmot Blyden. From wikipedia: "Edward Wilmot Blyden (3 August 1832 - 7 February 1912) was an educator, writer, diplomat, and politician in Liberia and Sierra Leone. He was born in Saint Thomas, U.S. Virgin Islands (then under Danish rule) to free parents on August 3, 1832. Blyden arrived in Liberia in 1850 and was soon deeply involved in its development. He died in Freetown, Sierra Leone, on February 7, 1912." (Notice that he was an Indies Native, too, but that is unlikely to be relevant). Run with it, folks.

Charleston Verse 6!!! Nailed It! -regulus

Pretty amazing.  We should do a search of other phrases in that book, just in case. Verse 6 has very cryptic and specific references to things.  Let's try and tie in all of the references to Charleston, and hopefully that will lead us to the right spot.

Egbert wrote:: Verse 6 has very cryptic and specific references to things.  Let's try and tie in all of the references to Charleston, and hopefully that will lead us to the right spot. Returning to V6, the first few lines (paraphrased from Treasure Island ) definitely relate to pirates. That's not hard to understand, as Charleston was a hotbed of pirate activity. Some were hanged and buried around the Battery area. As for Blyden, we might ask "so what?" Besides the link to Charleston, is there anything to be gained from knowing that the verse refers to Blyden specifically? It would really nail it if we found some kind of plaque, statue, sculpture, memorial (etc.) to Edward Wilmot Blyden somewhere in Charleston. I suggest we look for that, like, now.

If there is one, it is likely to be at a mosque or other Muslim organization. Blyden turned Muslim and became the governor of Liberia. There is a statue in Sierra Leone, and likely one as well  in St. Thomas near his home, which I believe is now a national monument. I could not find any specific places in Charleston that might honor him--there might be any number of them now, but in the early 80's who knows. His portrait is in the Library of Congress archives. ck

Okay, just thinking out loud so take it for what its worth... Edward Wilmot Blyden is refered to as a West Indian in several things I've read.  Hampton Park, bordered by the Citadel, was built as part of the West Indian Exposition of 1901.  May 1913 marks when the capstan from the USS Maine was installed at the western end of Hampton Park.  (It was later moved to the Charleston Naval Base and then finally installed at White Point Garden on July 15, 1927.) possibly more to come

just as a follow-up to my previous post, White Point Gardens is located at the southern tip of the Charleston penninsula (the one seen on the mask in P2).  One is supposed to be able to see Fort Sumter from the park.

"Men of tales and tunes, cruel and bold, seen here by eyes of old?" Dock Street Theatre 135 Church Street The original Dock Street Theatre opened in 1736 and was the first building designed for theatrical use in the Americas. The building and its uses were numerous over the next 200 years. The Dock Street Theatre is currently closed for renovations. The anticipated reopening date is July 2010. The original Dock Street Theatre opened in Charleston on February 12, 1736 with the play “The Recruiting Officer”. One month after the theatre was opened the name of Dock Street was officially changed to Queen Street, but the theatre retained its original name. The building and its uses were numerous during the next 200 years. In the 1930's, the derelict building, a shell of the former Planters Hotel, was restored by the Works Progress Administration. Then Mayor Burnet R. Maybank secured the necessary federal funds for the restoration. The current theatre seats 464 patrons. The Charleston Stage Company creates a series of annual performances at the theatre and perform from September until the end of April. The Spoleto Chamber Series is also housed at this historic theatre. Dock Street Theatre 135 Church Street Charleston, SC 29401 (843) 720-3968 Office Hrs: Mon-Fri 9:00am-5:00pm "Freedom at the birth of a century?" White Slaveowners Fear that the Haitian Revolution Has Arrived in Charleston, South Carolina, 1797 In the American South, slaves were typically dispersed among large populations of armed and vigilant whites. As a result, American slave rebellions failed to achieve their goals. This was not the case in the West Indies, where plantation owners remained at home in Europe and left overseers in charge of large populations of slaves. In 1791, a revolution began on the island of St. Domingo (Hispaniola, the home of Haiti and the Dominican Republic). In 1804, after years of fighting, the Republic of Haiti, a black republic composed of former slaves, freed itself from France. News of the Haitian revolution was an inspiration for American slaves but a source of severe anxiety for their masters. The arrival of Haitian refugees—black, white, and mulatto—in American port cities, including Charleston, increased masters’ fear that the black revolution would spread to the United States. Slaveowners cracked down, jumpily interpreting every transgression as an uprising in the making. There may be a statue of a slave somewhere in a park --- "below the bar that binds" --- since there is the Old Slave Mart in Charleston as well: The Old Slave Mart Museum The Old Slave Mart Museum, located at 6 Chalmers Street, will recount the story of Charleston's role in this inter-state slave trade by focusing on the history of this particular building and site and the slave sales that occurred here. The 1808 ban on the United States' participation in the international slave trade led to a renewed demand for slave labor, which was satisfied, in part, by the creation of a domestic slave-trading system in which Charleston functioned as a major slave collecting and reselling center. The Old Slave Mart Museum, located at 6 Chalmers Street, will recount the story of Charleston's role in this inter-state slave trade by focusing on the history of this particular building and site and the slave sales that occurred here. In the seven decades between the drafting of the U.S. Constitution and the Civil War, more than one million American-born slaves were sold away from plantations in the upper South to work the rapidly expanding cotton and sugar plantations in the lower South. In Charleston, enslaved African Americans were customarily sold on the north side of the Old Exchange Building. An 1856 city ordinance prohibited this practice of public sales, resulting in the opening of the Old Slave Mart and a number of other sales rooms, yards, or marts along Chalmers, State and Queen Streets. Possibly the only known building used as a slave auction gallery in South Carolina still in existence, the Old Slave Mart was once part of a complex of buildings known as Ryan's Mart that occupied the land between Chalmers and Queen Streets. The complex consisted of a yard enclosed by a brick wall and contained three additional buildings: a four-story brick building partially containing a "barracoon" or slave jail, a kitchen, and a "dead house" or morgue. Slave auctions at the Old Slave Mart ended in November 1863. The property changed hands many times after the Civil War, and between 1878 and 1937 the building was used as a Negro tenement and as an auto repair shop. In 1938 Miriam B. Wilson purchased the building, which by then, had come to be known locally as "The Old Slave Mart," and established a museum featuring African and African-American arts and crafts. Judith Wragg Chase and Louise Wragg Graves took over the Old Slave Mart in 1964, placed it on the National Register of Historic Places in 1973 and operated it until its closure in 1987. Recognizing the significant importance the institution of slavery has had in Charleston's history, the City of Charleston acquired the property in 1988. The Old Slave Mart Museum is currently undergoing exhibit design and installation and will soon be opened to the public. I am very optimistic on finding the treasure site now.  It is just a matter of finding out more information on Charleston, and linking it to the verse to find the exact spot.

2fast4u2c wrote:: May 1913 marks when the capstan from the USS Maine was installed at the western end of Hampton Park.  (It was later moved to the Charleston Naval Base and then finally installed at White Point Garden on July 15, 1927.) This article indicates that the capstan was recently removed from White Point Garden: hxxp://www.charleston.net/news/2007/jul/14/put_uss_maines_capstan_hampton_park10547/ The capstan, however, was not sent directly to White Point Garden when it arrived. Instead, it was installed at the western end of Hampton Park after it was given in May 1913. It was later moved to the Charleston Naval Base and then finally installed at White Point Garden 80 years ago this week on July 15, 1927. What accounts for the change of location? According to this newspaper's coverage of the White Point Garden installation ceremony, one speaker expressed his pride in having removed the capstan from "such an obscure place" as Hampton Park. Now that the capstan has been ousted from its spot at White Point Garden to make way for the statute of Gen. Moultrie, the city should seize this opportunity to right an 80-year-old wrong. In White Point Garden, the capstan was quickly lost in a large array of random, unconnected monuments and memorials. Moreover, while the neighborhoods around Hampton Park might have been thought obscure, today that description cannot be defended, and the capstan should be returned to its proper place.

Since this verse and Image 2 are paired, it is perhaps worthwhile to note that one of the houses in White Point Gardens is the William Roper house, which had a huge white portico that could be seen across the harbour. This house is also notable for its "earthquake bolts" (the bar that binds?)-- long bolts that run through the walls between the floor joists and are attached to a turnbuckle which would pull the house back together in the event it was shaken apart in an earthquake. In addition to its large white portico, ( White house nearby ?) the Roper house sports metal plaques that cover its earthquake bolts-- in the shape of lion's heads.

It is great to see everyone working together on this verse. I’d like to review the case for the Verse 6 to New York solution. I have accounted for every line in the verse. That doesn’t mean that I found just some way to make verse lines fit, but I have found sound matches that follow BP’s pattern of riddle making. Verse 6 flows generally from top to bottom. It starts at the Astor Place Opera House and then moves a few blocks over to Washington Square Park, and then again to the dig spot next to the Holley Monument. Now, I know that the asphalt around the Holley Monument is throwing some of you off track. Bear with me and I’ll share what I know about that too. Maybe, the best way to explain these matches is to post the answers in the order I discovered them.

ASTOR PLACE OPERA HOUSE Edwin and Edwina named after him Edwin Booth, and thus his daughter Edwina were named after the famous actor Edwin Forrest. catherwood and fox had this one right from the start. Edwin Forrest is our man. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=7897#p7897 Edwin Booth 1833 – 1893 & his daughter, Edwina 1861 – 1938   Edwin Forrest March 9, 1806 - December 12, 1872 We can confirm this by comparing to the other half of the “ Or ” phrase. Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Eighth Street was where the Astor Place Riot or scene occurred. “Where” was the clue here; we needed a place. Edwin Forrest ’s feud with the English actor William Macready sparked the Astor Place Riot in 1849. 8th St. is where the National Guard’s 7th Regiment and New York police made a stand to defend the opera house. By the time of the performance, over 20,000 people filled the streets around the theater. In the Guard’s defense the Opera House 22 citizens were killed and some 130 citizens, police and soldiers were injured. To further set up the Astor Place Opera House location we can refer to the first five lines of the verse. First, thank you spacecraft9 for finding the Treasure Island reference. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=12802#p12802 Nice work! I believe the Treasure Island reference is just part of the literary flavor BP added to the hunt. Although, it is undeniable that this “treasure” is on an “island” (Manhattan). Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold These are all what would have been seen at an opera house in the form of operas and romantic tragedies found in Shakespeare performances. Seen here By eyes of old The Astor Place Opera House stood from 1847 to 1854 .

WASHINGTON SQUARE PARK The following four lines move us just a few blocks away to Washington Square Park. Stand and listen to the birds Simply means to move from the Astor Place city streets to nature (a park). When you look for parks close to Astor Place, Washington Square Park is the closest. Aerial from Astor Place to Washington Square Park Hear the cool, clear song of water Washington Square Park has that huge fountain. You can’t miss it. Washington Square Park fountain Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century This is a wonderful reference to the inscription that is displayed on the top of the Washington Square Arch . The inscription reads “TO COMMEMORATE THE ONE HUNDREDTH ANNIVERSARY OF THE INAUGURATION OF GEORGE WASHINGTON AS FIRST PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES". Washington Square Arch Or May 1913 This is also a Washington Square Park clue. On May 3, 1913 , an estimated 10,000 women's suffrage advocates assembled in Washington Square Park and then marched eight abreast up Fifth Avenue in support of their cause. May 1913 March White house close at hand. Our last Washington Square Park clue. It looks like Trohn was on to something on this one. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=45253#p45253 Stanford White is very likely the white in “White” house. I should of reviewed old posts; it would have made my research easier. Nice one Trohn! The White house (as in house of God) may be Judson Memorial Church across the street. White designed both the church and the Washington Square Arch. Judson Memorial Church

HOLLEY MONUMENT Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Three lines tell us the final spot to dig. The two end posts are the two arms extended . The wall that connects the end posts is the bar that binds . The tall center column with the palm leaf sculptures is the long palm . Alexander Lyman Holley Monument

ASPHALT Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration So, why did BP use "Embedded" and "sand"? Was it because he knew we might be standing behind the Holley Monument some day asking, “Did he actually bury it beneath that asphalt?” Then we could figure that Embedded in the sand must mean we have to go through the asphalt (like he did). In the 1970 park renovation the Holley Monument was moved a few feet and the area around the monument was paved with asphalt. BP buried the casque under that asphalt a decade later. This seems like a pretty unbelievable feat at first impression, but after you review all the information it is not impossible at all. We can deduce he buried the casque under that asphalt for a few reasons. First, that is exactly where the verse leads us. Second, this was his hometown and he had time to coordinate the plan. Third, BP found the ideal spot. If I had to pick the best spot in Washington Square Park to bury something I would of buried it at the exact same place. What a great location! It is centered on the most accessible side of a prominent and distinguishable (by verse) stucture. Just beautiful. Fourth, in the 1982 Chicago Tribune article Preiss said he used “various disguises”. Since this was his hometown I bet you he went all out in setting this one up. So maybe he created a park worker disguise, set up cones, and then spent 60 or so minutes digging on a Saturday morning. Did he replace the asphalt? Did he just level off the hole with dirt? Did he move a planter back over the area? Whether it was a simple or complex operation it seems pretty impressive. When BP mentioned disguises I should have figured he was willing to give a full effort. I'm a believer now.

ILLUSTRATION If we have any doubts about BP going through the asphalt, he created an illustration for us. In many ways this clue stands by itself, once you know the Holley Monument. Pages 2 and 3 of the book show some striking comparisons to Holley. That illustration by itself is enough for me to dig next to the Holley Monument. Notice where the shovel is positioned. Refer to my earlier post for the similarities we noticed. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=63396#p63396 I know I posted some large pictures here and depending on your screen resolution you may be missing edges of some photos. Here is a link to my photo page in Flickr Good Hunting, Sonoran

Hi all. I found this picture of the dig site, if you notice the center pot is sinking into the asphalt. This means that the ground under it is unstable and the weight of the pot is causing the sinking. The plexiglass box may have broke and caused a void in the dirt allowing the sinking to happen. The asphalt is old and should be very easy to go through.

This theory is based on the Edwin Booth connection. But what about this? Given that this is from another page in the same book where the Sarmiento quote was found, it stretches credulity to think that Edwin and Edwina could refer to anyone else.

There is one more thing that is being overlooked about the Booth connection, and that is the obvious: EDWIN BOOTH may indeed have been named after another Edwin--but there is no way his daughter was. Think about it. How could Booth's daughter have been named after anyone but her FATHER ? This whole 'solution' and the fact that the casque would be buried under asphalt has the ring of unbelievable to me, no matter what the circumstances are. I don't buy the long palm's shadow, the "arms extended" part, the "bar that binds" part, or the Booth part either. I also don't think the illustration on p. 2/3 has any resemblance at all to the Holley monument. This is just too far to stretch IMHO. WAY too far. I'm in the camp that believes the Sarmiento book--two quotes from the same book seem a far greater connection.

Forest the edwin connection would be fine if the rest of the verse fit If you look at sonoran post the whole verse will give a dig site not just one line as yours is.

this is one that bp knew that we would question. This is why he inserted a drawing showing that you dig next to the monument as can be seen in sonorans post. if you look at the monument you will see a palm at the top the arms extended is the post at each end. all of the parts of the verse fit not just one or two line. this is the dig location we just need to get permission to dig there. bp had said that he had to use some disquises to bury some. this one he might have dressed as a park worker and no one would have suspected him except the real park workers if they showed up.

Sonoran's theory does not explain all the lines. Sonoran attributes the first three lines (from Treasure Island ) to "literary flavor," whereas the Charleston theory has an explanation for them. Charleston was a pirate mecca, and many were hanged and buried off White Point Gardens. There's even a Stede Bonnet memorial there. We can easily make the verse fit Charleston. Charleston has actual long palms with real shadows, not stylized fronds that may or may not be meant to represent palms. There's plenty of sand there, too. Arms could be cannons, which can be found at the Gardens. Birds and water are plentiful next to the Atlantic. We've even got a painting (P2) with a map of Charleston on it. But really, the strongest evidence is that quote from Abroad in America , which undeniably applies to Blyden. We can't simply dismiss the fact that it is found in the same book as the Sarmiento quote. The exact same book! It would be an unbelievable coincidence. I suggest that we start looking, and hard, for memorials / plaques / statues / sculptures in the Charleston area in honor of Blyden. Also that we start doing research on memorials / plaques / statues / sculptures that were in the White Point Gardens area in 1981, but are no longer there.

forest i agree p2 is foir charleston but you have the wrong verse

I've certainly been wrong before. I believe I offered to eat my hat if V2 didn't point to St. Louis last year. Now if I could just find a really small, digestible hat...

I'm with you on this one, FB....and I'm going to be investing in a lot of these....let me know if you want one or two!

forest_blight wrote:: Sonoran's theory does not explain all the lines. Sonoran attributes the first three lines (from Treasure Island ) to "literary flavor,"... As I mentioned in the solution I have accounted for every line of Verse 6. I thought the solution I presented showed that account. But I may have not have explained those early lines well. The answers are clear in my mind, but I may forget to communicate those answers. Forgive me if I missed something. I will try again. I did mention the Treasure Island references in the first 5 lines. But I don’t think the literary reference part of these lines are anything but flavor. I believe BP did not waste verse lines. It is what the lines actually say that is important. Every line has a purpose. The first 5 lines of Verse 6 are laying a general, but strong framework for the Astor Place Opera House. Without these lines we are left with only two clues to solve the location.  Using “Edwin and Edwina named after him” and “Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended” to get us to the Astor Place Opera House would be very difficult. These obscure clues would be too difficult to solve, especially without the Internet. In 1982 we would need the following 5 lines to get an angle on Astor Place. Of all the romance retold The art of storytelling in the form of opera, drama, and theater. Men of tales and tunes Actors, singers and opera singers. Cruel and bold Drama. Shakespeare or Elizabethan theatre and tragedies. Seen here Seen where? What is seen? The first three lines (opera and drama) are what is seen and Astor Place Opera House (theater) is where they would be seen. Even without considering the Astor Place location in the first 4 lines of this verse, they are still a sound theater reference. By eyes of old This is the final piece to the framework. “eyes of old” is a reference to the past. Astor Place Opera House stood from 1847 to 1854. It was torn down and can no longer be seen today. This is a perfect meaning for “eyes of old”. No longer seen today.

shecrab wrote:: There is one more thing that is being overlooked about the Booth connection, and that is the obvious: EDWIN BOOTH may indeed have been named after another Edwin--but there is no way his daughter was. Think about it. How could Booth's daughter have been named after anyone but her FATHER ? shecrab wrote:: This whole 'solution' and the fact that the casque would be buried under asphalt have the ring of unbelievable to me, no matter what the circumstances are. I don't buy the long palm's shadow, the "arms extended" part, the "bar that binds" part, or the Booth part either. I also don't think the illustration on p. 2/3 has any resemblance at all to the Holley monument. I don't think we need to take Edwin and Edwina named after him literal. And I don't think it is a stretch to assume daughter Edwina Booth is named after Edwin Forrest when she was surely named after her father. If you really mean, "no matter what the circumstances are", then I doubt I will ever be able to convince you of the solution. Because, the "circumstances" are where the solution is revealed. If we look for exact matches in illustrations, pictures, and words in a verse then we will miss most of what BP is hiding. If BP presented great or perfect "resemblances" in his book this treasure hunt would be too easy,... and boring. I would be surprised if no one saw at least some subtle resemblances on Page 2 and 3. Again, for me, that picture alone is confirmation of the Holley location! Maybe there was a planting area directly behind the Holley Monument after the 1970 renovation. Maybe it was thick asphalt and has been ever since. I have great admiration for all of you. I don't want you to waste time off target. It would be shame to have Verse 6 off track because there is asphalt over the casque location now. We don’t know what BP encountered at the Holley Monument 25 years ago. Let’s discount New York for the solution not because we can’t envision the possibilities. I'm not trying to beat up anyone's ideas. We have spent a half of a year getting to this point and are very confident in the solution. It even took me a while to get my coworker Turtle123456 on board. But, he can tell you more about that. Let me know if anyone has any other questions.

Thanks for clarifying, Sonoran, and for maintaining poise in the face of heavy criticism. I could buy everything you're saying as a viable theory... if it weren't for the incredible, amazing, dumbfounding coincidence of finding "Edwin and Edwina" in Abroad in America . What are the odds?

One of the pictures on Sonoran's Flickr page shows the Holley monument in the 1920's with grass all the way up to the back of it. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/8830991@N03/1383690891/ Does anyone know when asphalt was laid down on the backside?

I was just re-reading page 219 of the book (the one about the treasure and how to claim it) and it says "It is not the intention of the Fair People to destroy the beauty of nature or Man through their challenge."  To me, this quote would work against the theory that BP dug through asphalt or expected us to do the same.

2fast4u2c wrote:: Sonoran, I do like your solution but something does bother me.  In the solves for the two that have been found, there has been a visual confirmer at the dig site that can also be seen in the image.  (Wall in Cleveland and fenceposts in Chicago.)  These are pretty much exact matches.  There would be two things that I would look for before I started digging at the location that you have pointed out:... ...2.  Look at the asphalt around the monument.  Is there any discontinuity?  Any thing looking like patchwork?  Unless they have did a major overhaul and repaved the entire area since 1981 (I don't know that they would since it is only subjected to foot traffic) something like this should be noticeable.  If it is all smooth and continuous, I would reconsider it as the dig spot. The current asphalt condition is an interesting topic. Pictures taken this year show the asphalt around the Holley Monument in bad shape. It seems , at sometime since the original 1970 renovation, the asphalt has been patched at least once. That patch itself is starting to look worn. Here is a front and back look. I have trouble sorting out wear and evidence of sinking or previous digging. What do you think?

You know, you're not going to simply poke a hole into asphalt and get to dirt. This isn't a question of 'lifting' up a paving stone. Asphalt is typically laid over aggregate, and that can be 3-6 inches thick. Then the asphalt is laid on top of that, which is at least 6-8 inches thick. This isn't a simple operation you're talking about. it might even be laid over another walkway--brick, concrete, stone or other material. The "hard" material can go down a foot or more, and then you might just find MORE hard material under that. This I have to see.

The way the tar looks in the pic, it looks like maybe the foot path left an open dirt patch behind the monument and was later patched up.  And, I think major road ways are 6 to 8 inches, but foot paths are half of that or even less.  Unless they expected two-ton people walking on it.  Go for it guys!

Holley Monument Update We received a reply to our request to dig on the back side of the Holley Monument. The New York City Department of Parks and Recreation wants to avoid uneeded construction (asphalt removal and repair) in the Holley area. So, the answer was a solid "no". When we presented a counter offer of digging during the upcoming renovation we got a VERY promising response, "I don't see why not". The Parks said that all the asphalt would be removed during the renovation. It was agreed that with asphalt removed there should be nothing to rule out a future dig. So, the final answer was "yes, but not right now".   ;) Our contacts in the New York City Parks have had been very polite and seem interested in our quest. Turtle and I will be in New York in mid October for other business and plan to survey the location and possibly meet with those Parks contacts. The Washington Square Park renovation is still held up in the courts. Turtle and I will stay on top of that upcoming dig window and keep you guys posted on any changes or updates. The following link is probably the best source for updates on the ongoing renovation battle. hxxp://www.plannyc.org/project-90-Washington-Square-Park-Redesign Thanks for everyone's help in proving in this solution.

I have interpreted this verse to have political references: presidents, government, capital buildings (just the feel I have) Harken to the words: (a) Freedom at the birth of a century Woodrow Wilson's New freedom of 1913? Or (b)May 1913 (a) Edwin and Edwina named after him Wilks-Booth take/Father Forrest/president Lincoln? Or (b) on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Lady of Justice statue on a capital building? Below the bar that binds Scales of Justice she holds? hxxp://www.coastalbend.edu/acdem/social ... /doc15.htm hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lady_Justice

jayheedan wrote:: Where law defended Between two arms extended Lady of Justice statue on a capital building? Below the bar that binds Scales of Justice she holds? Yay, finally a new idea! I really like the Lady Justice theory. Now that you've said it, it seems kind of obvious. Perhaps we're all over thinking this. I have been at a loss for new thoughts on this book for awhile...maybe Lady Justice will take us in a new direction. Thanks for sharing.

I said this before, in an earlier post--but what about the "bar that binds" being earthquake bolts?  These were long rods--bars--that were inserted through houses--in Charleston SC. hxxp://www.ccpl.org/content.asp?id=1572 ... entID=5748 These had decorative bolt ends--and they were often in the shape of stars (shown in p.2 on the bottom mask) and/or lions' heads (shown in p. 2 above). I'm not at all convinced this v. points to New York, or the Holley Monument. I'm still betting on Charleston.

I was thinking about "arms extended."  Perhaps the phrase is referring to fire arms. Maybe the casque lays between 2 cannons or a plaques featuring 2 guns. Hopefully the thought will spark more ideas. Shannon

Well, if you subscribe to the Charleston theory of this verse, then the 'arms extended' might refer to Battery street--it extends in two different directions past White Point Gardens. It would then be a double pun-- battery=weapons=arms.

Just had a sort of breakthrough on this verse, from noodling around doing research, and thought I ought to share it with you all. I apologize if this has been posted before. As you know from previous discussion, V.6 may refer to Charleston---(seriously---I'm not trying to cause trouble with those who believe it's NY) I do believe that it refers to Charleston. And for the parts of the verse that have been puzzling, we've been trying to find some "Bar that binds," and "Long Palm's Shadow" and so forth, that feel like more of a match than sandbars and palm trees. Well, I think I may have found that match. Before I get into that, though, here is the reasoning behind this: I know from posts about it here that May 1913 might refer to the donation of the USS Maine's capstan to Charleston for display (first) in Hampton Park and (second) White Point Gardens.  So I looked up the Maine--hoping that it had been "bound" by a sandbar (the Bar that BINDS) or soemthing like that. Instead I found something else. It occurred to me that a "bar that binds" might be referring to the ship's ANCHOR. So I looked up what type of anchor the Maine used: they used something called a TROTMAN anchor. And that's a pretty standard looking anchor.  But then I looked up the parts of an anchor...and sonofagun---look what I found: Note that the Anchor has ARMS and a PALM .  "Between two ARMS extended---below the bar that binds" might be referring to underneath the anchor--and it's PALM. The "long palm" might mean that the anchor has one palm that is longer than the other--not uncommon. And the shadow it casts might show the exact location of the casque . So maybe this is exactly where the casque is buried--under an anchor--in either Hampton or White Point Gardens. Embedded in the sand beside the long palm's shadow. What do you think?  Possible?

i think you nailed it!!!!!!!! good one shecrab!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ooooh, that feels good---but don't thank me yet---is there an anchor in Charleston???  I coudln't find one!!!

There is an "Anchor" in Charleston, if you take the 3rd,10th,1st,2nd,9th, and 4th, but I don't think you mean this!

Very nice idea Shecrab. Here is a site which shows pictures of the parts of the Maine that are in Charleston (note that a plaque mentions May 1913): hxxp://www.spanamwar.com/mainparts3.htm#Capstan%20south%20carolina Here is an entire list of where the Maine's parts are, including the anchors: hxxp://www.spanamwar.com/mainparts.htm

I saw that yesterday---It doesn't have to be the anchor from the Maine...does anyone know if there is ANY anchor in Charleston in one of the seacoast parks?

Here is an anchor and a ship hidden in image2.  I like this one Shecrab!!!

How cool....... !! I'm likin' it too...and I've searched all morning for some park with an anchor in it--or some sort of anchor somewhere! I'm not getting far, though. Boy--St. Louis has all sorts of info about its parks all over the 'net, but not Charleston.  SIGH.... I did find this though: The Charles Towne Landing State Historical Site. There are a couple of websites, and the most promising thing about this is that it has a bunch of revolutionary war cannons, AND a wild animal park--remember the lion in I2?--and a seafaring museum or something---AND the Hampton plantation house is white. One of the few--most of the plantations and row houses in Charleston seem to be any color BUT white--but the Hampton is ALL white. (White house nearby) The CTlanding site has a replica wooden ship, but I know this was not there in 1982--they started construction on it sometime in the mid-90's. Maybe--just maybe?--there was an anchor monument or loose in the sand on that particular site? There aren't any good maps I've found on line yet. This particular park is not on the peninsula. it's on the mainland, across the channel. So is there anyone there who can go to the CTLSHS and check it out? Has someone done it once before? Excited again!

Possibly an anchor on this? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/ladybug101 ... 290156714/ two arms extended and a bar that binds? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/ladybug101 ... 290156714/

I remember reading somewhere that there were animals in a park, including a lion, near The Citadel.  In fact, someone at The Citadel could hear the lion roaring.  Was it Hampton Park?

That would make sense---if there are any animals in Hampton Park, it's right near the Citadel. Charles Towne Landing also has an African-American History museum. I'm wondering if Blyden's picture or an artifact from his life is there. And another thing...Fort Sumter is shaped exactly like that mask at the bottom of I2. Not just similiarly, but exactly. If that doesn't confirm this P. as Charleston nothing does. As for the stocks being the 'arms extended and the bar that binds,' maybe so! That would certainly keep the casque in Charles Towne Landing.

From Charles Towne Landing, hows this for "between two arms extended" hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/defenderso ... 757026787/

Nice! What is that?

its a tree in Charles Towne Landing that has a branch that is so big and has grown out so long, they have added two arms to hold it up or "extend" it

WAs it that big 25 years ago?

Are you noticed? there is a lot of gazebos over this hunt... some of possible locations had one.

shecrab....If only you would have been with me in September as I explored the possibilities here... alas, I only started using this verse AFTER I tried to validate other theories I had and had read resulting form other verses...and ran out of time. Back I shall go very soon for a T-hunt weekend. I guess, secretively (pardon the pun) I was hoping noone would start looking down this verse of possibility. No matter, the Rooftop Bar in Charleston will allow anyone to get their mind right...so a trip there is always a winning situation. Cheers, D

Thanks, D!! I wish I'd known as well! I could have afforded a little trip to Charleston then. Good luck on your next junket...and keep an eye out for the anchors.

I did a Google book search for "bar that binds" and I got some hits relating to gates: "To lift the bar that binds Achilles' gates!" - Homer's Iliad "and massive as the iron bar That binds a castle-gateway" "the crystal bar that binds the gates of paradise" Just tossing that out there.

shecrab wrote:: Just had a sort of breakthrough on this verse, from noodling around doing research, and thought I ought to share it with you all. I know from posts about it here that May 1913 might refer to the donation of the USS Maine's capstan to Charleston for display (first) in Hampton Park and (second) White Point Gardens. I don't know if verse 6 is right for Charleston, but your comment here made me think about image 2: USS Maine == Lions Mane

This verse most likely goes with New York. Go to the Secret Wiki or however that's spelled and look at the solution for Image 12 Verse 6

The secret what?  Wigi?  Now why didn't I think of that?  The Wigi board will tell us where the casques are!!!  or is that Ouigi Board?

Scott, the Wiki is useful, but it is not a solution key. It is as much speculation as anything written here. You seem awfully sure that certain verses marry with certain images--when in fact, only TWO of them have been uncovered--two verses, two images. The rest is pure speculation based on observation and opinion--and is not FACT until proven.

I'm new to the site.  I read in a post earlier in this thread that BP said there is no treasure burried in Central Park.  I am just wondering how/when BP conveyed this message.  I just wanted to verify it before I dismiss an idea.

I remember that too.  Perhaps Johann posted it? wilhouse

welcome to the zoo (not Wilhouse's zoo in Houston) aluora!!!  I believe I may have relayed that information but am not too sure I will have to go back and look through all of my emails.  It may have been Johann also...I just am not sure.

boogieman wrote:: The secret what?  Wigi?  Now why didn't I think of that?  The Wigi board will tell us where the casques are!!!  or is that Ouigi Board? An Ouigi Board may be woth a try. I do think for now this verse goes with New York. I think the Edwin and Edwina being named after the actor is the more likely case. I think the Gray Giant verse goes with St. Louis. The good news is doth this and the verse we think may go to charlstron have some definate or at the time of publication definate clues to tie them to spacific locations in spacific parks and cities. For the Gray Giant verse the Indies Native sign is the definate clue for the other verse Lane 222 is the definate clue. Wether the sign is still there and/or Lane 222 is still there I do not know. But, the correct cities parks and recreation department and/or historical society will likely have a record of them. Over the next few weeks i will be contacting some of them to see what help they can be. Anything I find I will post here Soon I will update my Image to Verse Match thread with all the possible combinations as of now and will continue to update it as I learn more.

a couple of ideas i had for "Fair remuneration" besides what is obvious, that it just means that "here is your reward, the casque" because Fair is capitalized.....Fair re-------------, fairy, ferry or also it meaning  "reward, or pay" --------it being "embedded in the sand"...................sand dollars maybe a Sand Dollar hotel, hopefully painted "white" .............. and "Fair" could mean "white"-------like that edward brickell white who designed the market hall

just following up on the sand dollar idea.......probably nothing but have to let them play out before i can move on say the pear is a yellow plum for plum island, follow it down through the daisy to folly beach where there is a famous "SandDollar Social Club" and the "EDWIN"  S. Taylor fishing pier with a large "diamond shape", famous and old small picture at the top here: hxxp://www.follybeach.com/islandmap.php the "bar that binds": hxxp://flickr.com/photos/ronschubert/297035969/

i know nothing points to johns island, but just look at this angel oak and read the poem at this site hxxp://www.petticoated.com/angeloakA03.html it has "eyes of old" "romance" "hangings' plus the land was owned by abraham "WAIGHT" johns island serves as a gateway to the other islands---

slappy, there is no mention of "eyes of old" on that page. And you got my hopes up!

i'm sorry, i just meant the tree had seen a lot of things because it is over 1400 years old.

Briefly, this is why I think this verse goes to St. Louis: The first five lines either talk about the STL art museum or a bandshell type structure in the park. The next two lines direct you to a fountain. The next six lines give you clues to find the right area of the park The next five lines are spacific instructions on how to find the casque. White hous close at hand I do not know.

I just got back from the Forest Park website. The first five lines are likely talking about the World's Fair Pavilion. Their is a fountain close to the building. I will be updateing my image to verse match thread shortly with an image to verse match that if this turns out to be right will likely be correct. While we may be getting excited to early if this thinking is correct we can just about eliminate Monreal as the canadian city. I will write when I can my internet is going in and out.

Well....that is definitely a theory, of sorts... I'm leaning more toward Charleston on this one though.  I mean, one of the MANY things in this verse that points to a specific area would be Men of Tales and Tunes, both Cruel and Bold; seems pretty close to the story of Porgy and Bess...

It's from Treasure Island. Why do you think Porgy and Bess?

Well, I am a firm believer in verse 7 going with image 1, and I am pretty sure if it does then I solved the location,  but... Since there wasn't a casque where I dug, I admit I could be wrong. So I asked, what other verse, could possibly go with image 1 and San Francisco, smugly knowing that there aren't any.. Then someone said, how about verse 6?, - verse 6? right, doesn't that go with Florida? So the first lines of the verse are definitly from  the preface to Robert Louis Stevenson's treasure Island. and outside of Treasure Island Naval station in the bay, there are no Robert Louis Stevenson Connections to San Francisco, Right? Doh! a little checking revealed Robert Louis Stevenson, did live in San Francisco... Just south of ChinaTown. (about a block from where Raymond Chandler lived on Bush St) RLS used to love to walk through ChinaTown and hang out in a park called portsmouth Square.  (which happens to be filled with all kinds of monuements and plaques, its a very historical part of SF) According to his Bio, he sat in the park and told stories to the children, "Under the watchful eyes of the old chinese" people. There is a monument to RLS in portsmouth square, and originally it was the centerpiece of the Stevenson Fountain... Here it gets murky.... accoss from portsmouth square is the site of the Jenny Lind Theater. where notably Edwin Booth performed... The street that goes between the site of the jenny lind and portsmouth square , Kearny, runs right up to hill on which sits coit tower, and it is one of the streets that show up in the map in the dragon on the gown. I cannot find references to the dates in the verse in the area, but someone on site might have better luck. Its possible the shape under the table in image 1 matches a street lamp from portsmouth square (there are several different chinatown themed streetlamps around. The white house is problematic, as BP was expecting the casques to be found shortly, if it simply refers to a house that was painted white, there is no guarantee the house is still that color...

I'm a V7 fan too, malt, but I like your reasoning and the connections you are drawing. But still, Edwin and Edwina, man! They have to be Charleston.

Im not clear on the Edwin- Edwina booth connection. Edwina booth changed her name to Edwina booth but she took the name edwina after a favorite uncle and the name booth came from: During this time she changed her name to Edwina Booth (Edwina after her favorite granduncle Edwin and Booth after her grandfather John Edge Booth). so she is not named after edwin booth.... where did the booth connection come from other than there was a famous actor named Edwin booth. There were a lot of edwins out there....

There is more than one Edwin/Edwina connection to Charleston. The most impressive one I found was EDWIN HARLESTON , the African/American painter of portraits--he and his wife had no children, but they adopted his niece as a small child and named her Edwina, after Edwin . The Harlestons lived in Charleston, and this matches the African theme of the image we have used to pair with the verse. There is a museum near the old Cabbage Row where some of his paintings are hung. Also, he was a charter member of the NAACP. I know there is another Edwin, who had twins named after him as well...but I don't have time to look back through the thread to find the name.

That is a therory. I still think this is one of three possible verses that go with St. Louis. The others are Verse 3 and 10. I think this because with a general interpretation any of these three verses could fit Forest Park. I am confident that Image 9 is STL and the image seems to indicate Forest Park or an area around Forest Park. But I too am stumped by white house close at hamd. I will be sending Image 9 and these three verses to the STL Parks and Recreation Department soon to see what they think. Their are some definate confirmers in each of these verses. The confirmers deal with either the History of the park or a definate landmark that someone familier with the park would know. I think the real reason this hunt did not go over was because too few copies of the book were sold originally and even fewer were sold to people close enough to the casque sites that they would know the historical and landmark clues to make a match. I think only about 50,000 copies were sold. The images too had very obvious clues to someone that lived in the city of the casque.

Just a heads up. Sorry I haven't shared this sooner. But I've been real busy lately and I don't have time to research this more for you guys right now. For anyone interested in exploring (digging) the Holley Monument location in Washington Square Park, they have started Phase 1 of the renovation. Phase 1 includes the Holley Monument and that whole side of the 10 acre park. The pictures I saw show that most or all of the asphalt has been removed. This may be the perfect time to coordinate a dig. You may even get some volunteer shovel labor from a curious worker or two on site. The window for this opportunity may be small (maybe a few months) depending on the order of steps in their plan. Here is to link to some renovation pictures I found on Flickr. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/70118259@N00/sets/72157603687378665/ I believe this a very sound solution from start to end, every line has been accounted for. This is probably a once in a lifetime opportunity for this location. The current Holley area is suppose to become a pathway and you may never be allowed to dig there after this renovation is completed. For those unsure of the location, this may be at least an opportunity to cross it off the list. Up to you.

good idea. This needs to be investigate throughly. Also remember if these therories are correct the concrete may have crushed the casque so look for pices of the casque as well. If this does not go to NYC then it goes to STL. This is one of three verses that could go with STL. The STL image clearly points to an area in or around Forest Park. Just looking at the maps of Forest Park any one of the three verses I mentioned earlier could fit. Check out NYC closely people. If it works out then the next most likely verse for STL is the Shadow of the gray giant verse. If this verse does not work out then the gray giant verse likely goes to NYC and this one goes to STL.

and which P goes with St Louis?

Image 9 the few things that make some think this goes to Montreal are likely references to the 1904 Worlds Fair. Judgeing from the image there are likely three areas in the park it could be. In the vacenity of the Jewel Box, Pagoda Circle or The Worlds Fair Pavilion.

Here is how I think this verse fits Forest Park: The first 5 lines illude to the art museum that can be seen from the Pagoda Circle area. This could also be talking about a band stand or prehaps both. Both are near the Pagoda Circle area it looks like. the next two verses tell us to go to a fountain. Wether or not its the fountain in the image (if it is a fountain) or another fountain I do not know. Their are many fountains in the park. The next 6 lines are clues to historic events related to both the park and the area of the casque. This is what I am working on now. Once these four events freedom at the birth of a century, May 1913, Edwin and Edwina and on the 8th a scene are figured out we will know the park and the area of the park the casque is at. The next four lines are instructions on how to find the casque and I think this is the thing that links the image to the verse. I think the arms extended/bar that binds is represented by the checkarboard patern on the chest area. The last line likely illudes to the pagoda. This was likely put in the verse because once the four events mentioned above are figured out they could point to two diferant places in the park. This line tells you the correct of the two areas to go. It sounda like this was burried under some sort of a terace area like a grape arbor. This casque is findable for two reasons first detailed records are keept of all changes to the park and two they did not pave over everything. If this therory holds up two of the twelve casques look to have been burried in Japanese theamed areas. I wonder if BP had an athenity for the Japanese.

I wonder if BP had an athenity for the Japanese. well i could not find anything on that, but i found and interesting link to the illustrator for the book, the art work is just amazing......links hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Byron_Preiss illustrated by John Jude Palencar hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Jude_Palencar hxxp://www.johnjudepalencar.com/home.htm

scottrocks7 wrote:: Here is how I think this verse fits Forest Park: The first 5 lines illude to the art museum that can be seen from the Pagoda Circle area. This could also be talking about a band stand or prehaps both. Both are near the Pagoda Circle area it looks like. the next two verses tell us to go to a fountain. Wether or not its the fountain in the image (if it is a fountain) or another fountain I do not know. Their are many fountains in the park. Question, The first lines of verse 6, are from Robert Louis Stevenson's  Treasure Island, how exactly does that allude to  the art museum. I would think there has to be a significance to the lines involving RLS or Treasure Island or at the least Pirates.

this verse bugs the peedad out of me because of the references to two places. Treasure Island----San Francisco, and all maltedfalcon pointed out Edwin and Edwina-----Charleston (because of the book "Abroad in America" , right?) but also since it is a riddle, it could stand for "Forest" , the last name of the people in the book, or with the next line being " or on the eighth a scene", it makes you think of the Booth family, being actors, or just for a "booth",  for sitting or phone booth. (all of this is from what i remember reading, haven't double-checked anything, double-checking has no place in my life right now so correct me if i'm remembering something wrong, ok?) and then it bugs me that,  in  the verses that were solved, the first lines stood for a road, and some inscription near the area

It is possible that this verse goes to San Fransisco but I do not think so. I think our idea that the casque is in the tea garden is correct. The image on the kimono is a map of Golden Gate Park. I looked at the park online and the map was an exact match to the kimono image. JJP was likely given a brochure with a park map in it to paint this that is how exact it is.  The SF image is likely Japanese theamed to confirm to you that the Tea Garden is correct. Everyone I have talked to and some of you have said he could not get in the tea garden. It looks as though some how BP did get in. He did not want the searcher to think this way. The image could also be misinterpreted to be saying dig in the moon garden. The GGP map is likely to keep people from useing this verse to go to Treasure Island.

I think I figured out some more of this verse and I think this part confirms that Forest Park is the Park. The part "harken the words freedom at the birth of a century" I found a website about the history of Forest Park and it said "The twentieth century was born in Forest Park with the Grandeur and Spectacle of the Louisiana Purchase Exhibition-the World's Fair of 1904". Construction for the fair began in 1901. This coud further knock this point home. We now know the park is Forest Park the next question is the location within the park. Judgeing from the image it is either the Pagoda Circle area though not on the island or the World's Fair Pavilion area. I found a few things about 1913 land was set asside for the zoo and the Jefferson memorial in the park was dedicated. I do not think either of these is what this line is illudeing to. We now know the first 5 lines are illudeing either to the Muny theater or the Pagoda Band Shell. The next two lines direct you to a fountain likely one behind the Muny or near the World's Fair pavilion. The next two lines confirm Forest Park. The next four lines we may need some help figureing out but once we do they will direct us to the correct part of the park. Almost definately either Pagoda Circle area most likely or World's Fair Pavilion less likely. The next 5 lines describe how to find the casque. The checkarboard area on the chest turned upside down is likely the representation of this place. The last line is either the pagoda or the pavilion. For now I still think the area of Pagoda Circle is the correct because I still think the outline of the black colar when turned upside down forms a crude depiction of the pagoda.

cw0909 wrote:: Of all the romances retold men of tales and tunes cruel and bold seen here by eyes of old Eyebar suspension So you are suggesting we ignore the Robert Louis Stevenson connection, the Treasure Island connection and 18 out of 19 words to concentrate on the word eyes, and that equals (not the name of ) but a type of bridge.  You are right I think its a stretch.

You keep saying this: "We now know the first 5 lines are illudeing either to the Muny theater or the Pagoda Band Shell. " I keep asking how specifically the first 5 lines allude to the Muny Theater or the Pagoda Band Shell.  I'm not trying to rain on your parade, But like Forest Blight asked about the Rectangle on the image 1 dress resembling Golden Gate Park, He said "Convince me." I think i did a pretty good job of stating my case, if your argument is sound it will stand up to examination. So Convince me....

I would have to agree with falcon here.  That would indeed be a very weak link

fox wrote:: I would have to agree with falcon here.  That would indeed be a very weak link i said a stretch, and im thinking V-1, sorry short on time now will get back to why i hope soon

...am waiting with bated breath...

I do not think there is anything paticular with this quote being from Treasure Island in that he wanted us to go to a "Treasure Island" park or theme park. I did however begin to think that if this is a quote from Treasure Island then it may strenthen the possibility of Pagoda Circle being the area of the casque. Rember the Pagoda is on an island. I do not think the casque is burried on the island though it could be but rather in the area of the pagoda. With that in mind this is my updated decodeing of the verse. It is unlikely that many people would know the first 3 lines are Treasure Island. The first 8 lines especially line 8 confirms the park and a fountain near the muny theater. It looks tlike freedom at the birth of the centuary was the theame of the 1904 World's Fair. Once people figured that out they would then reread the verse from the top the first 7 lines would almost definately draw most people to a fountain by the Muny. It is likely that there is only one fountain or two atleast at that time near the Muny. The next four lines wile I have not figured them out will almost definately lead us to the pagoda circle area. I think lines 12 and 13 are or were a more recent event i.e. 60's or 70's. The next 5 lines are how to find the casque and the last line is the Pagoda.

I have to say, scott - I'm not seein' it. Give us something solid.

scottrocks7 wrote:: It is unlikely that many people would know the first 3 lines are Treasure Island. It is more so likely knowing this than: "What we take to be our strongest tower of delight, only stands at the caprice of the minutest event—the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather. " This of course is from Herman Melville's Pierre ...which leads us directly to Hermann Park in Houston TX. Again, I side with FB...give us something solid or stop selling because I'm not even renting...

scottrocks7 wrote:: I did however begin to think that if this is a quote from Treasure Island then it may strenthen the possibility of Pagoda Circle being the area of the casque. Rember the Pagoda is on an island. It looks tlike freedom at the birth of the centuary was the theame of the 1904 World's Fair. So far that statement seems the most likely. I could stretch to believe the lines indicate an island. I would think there would be a stronger link though. and just to clarify, The theme for the 1904 World's fair was: Fair Name: Louisiana Purchase Exposition Location: St. Louis, MO USA Year of Fair: 1904 Theme of Fair: Celebrating the centennial of the Louisiana Purchase.

This is how I think this verse fits the Pagoda Circle area. Lets start with the first 5 lines of the verse. I am going to take your word for it that these are the first words of Treasure Island. If that is the case it was likely antisibated that some would recognise them and head for the Pagoda which was on an Island. I however feal that the second line Men of Tales and Tunes is a key line. This serves two key functions first it keeps you from going to the art museum. Their would be no Tunes there and second and prehaps more important it keeps you from misinterpriting the first line and going to the pagoda. As their would be no tales at the pagoda. So my take on the first few lines is this: line 1 is talking about all the romantic and dramatic plays that have been preformed at the muny and the next two lines are trying to hint to a theater. The next two lines would make sense as well because the Muny was nearly 70 years old when the book came out. The next two lines tell us to go to a fountain near the Muny. The next six lines are the most important and is what the MO History Library needs to help us the most on. These are historical clues that once figured out will tell us if we are right or not. The next five lines are instructions on how to find the casque and in my moind what ties the image to the verse. The last line is likely the Pagoda.

Unknown: This is how I think this verse fits the Pagoda Circle area. Lets start with the first 5 lines of the verse. I am going to take your word for it that these are the first words of Treasure Island. Unknown: If that is the case it was likely antisibated that some would recognise them and head for the Pagoda which was on an Island. Unknown: I however feal that the second line Men of Tales and Tunes is a key line. This serves two key functions first it keeps you from going to the art museum. Their would be no Tunes there and second and prehaps more important it keeps you from misinterpriting the first line and going to the pagoda. As their would be no tales at the pagoda. Unknown: So my take on the first few lines is this: line 1 is talking about all the romantic and dramatic plays that have been preformed at the muny and the next two lines are trying to hint to a theater. Unknown: The next two lines would make sense as well because the Muny was nearly 70 years old when the book came out. Unknown: The next two lines tell us to go to a fountain near the Muny. Unknown: The next six lines are the most important and is what the MO History Library needs to help us the most on. These are historical clues that once figured out will tell us if we are right or not. The next five lines are instructions on how to find the casque and in my moind what ties the image to the verse. Unknown: The last line is likely the Pagoda. If I might be permitted to dissect this theory... No need to take anyone's word for it. Here it is (I underlined the parts referred to in V6): TO THE HESITATING PURCHASER If sailor tales to sailor tunes , Storm and adventure, heat and cold, If schooners, islands, and maroons, And buccaneers, and buried gold, And all the old romance, retold Exactly in the ancient way, Can please, as me they pleased of old , The wiser youngsters of today... "Men of tales and tunes," then, is a direct reference to "sailors." What kind of sailors are "cruel and bold"? Pirates. "Seen here / by eyes of old," then, means " This is a place where there used to be pirates ." The rest of this theory is built on the premise that these first few lines point to the Muny area, which I am having a hard time believing. I really want to believe it, though, because St. Louis is the only casque city within driving distance for me. But what does a pagoda have to do with pirates? If you mean the island reference... there are literally thousands upon thousands of islands in the U.S. and Canada. Islands are everywhere. Why this one? I don't understand this at all. Can you elaborate on why you think the line "Of all the romance retold" might tempt people to visit the pagoda? How does "Men of tales and tunes / Cruel and bold" refer to a building or structure? Surely it refers to "men." But there are millions of old things, all around us. I am having difficulty understanding how these clues could have led you to this place, when it seems to me they could just as easily have led to hundreds or thousands of other places. Okay, I can see how these might refer to a fountain. I can understand how doing historical research may help with those lines, but in what way does it tie the verse to a specific image? Please elaborate. I can't see the pagoda referred to as a "white house." In fact, the clear references to Treasure Island and pirates would seem to automatically eliminate anywhere that isn't on the east coast.

forest_blight wrote:: If I might be permitted to dissect this theory... In fact, the clear references to Treasure Island and pirates would seem to automatically eliminate anywhere that isn't on the east coast. Except, the one place The author of Treasure Island lived while in the United States was San Francisco, and by coincidence in China Town. Where there is a monument dedicated to him. He used to sit in the park and tell stories to entertain the young chinese children.... He was a favorite of the people in the park. Then there is a very famous island located in the San Francisco Bay called, Treasure Island. So I wouldnt preclude the west coast too firmly....

That's a good point - I forgot that.

maltedfalcon wrote:: He used to sit in the park and tell stories to entertain the young chinese children.... He was a favorite of the people in the park. What park?  Golden Gate Park?  hmmmmm Can the rest of this V be connected with GGP?  It sure would be nice if it could.  That way, we could reexamine my theory of V7 P7 being located in or around Jackson Square.

Sorry I wasnt clear, not GGpark but Portsmouth square, A park bordering the southern edge of china town. interestingly the lamp posts around this park are decorated with dragons that look a lot like the dragon in the image.... (but not exactly) The only reason to be in this park is if the verse is v6 - unfortunately after that it pretty much is a dead end.. I cant find any good associations for the rest of the verse...

This is the potential big clue that I just thought of.  We will need the help of the MO history library on this but the key line could be seen here by eyes of old. I will take your word for it that the first few lines are from treasure island. Then what these first five lines could be talking about is not a place named treasure island but the theatrical preformance of Treasure Island. The first five lines could then potentially be read as talking about the play Treasure Island being preformed at the Muny a long time ago. Prehaps it was the first play preformed at the Muny or the First majore play that got the facility attention. Those first few lines likely reference a preformance event of some kind at the Muny. The first few lines if I have this correctly matched this verse definately talk about a play or musical of somekind that was done at the Muny maybe TI maybe not. I will have the MO historical library look into this we should not stay solely focused on TI thpugh as their may be other possible connections. Once the connection above was made the next lines about the cool clear song of water is talking about a fountain close to the Muny. The part of this verse from Harken the words to law defended is likely historical clues to ID the city and park. The rest of the verse directs you to the digsite that the pagoda can be seen from. I will try to have something more concrete on this soon.

That is a possiblilty but if it is true that the first part of the verses points at a road. then chances are the TI quote point to something like Stevenson Road or Treasure st or Pirate blvd, or something like that. Was there actually a theatrical performance of Treasure Island, I've never heard of it presented as a play...

I have not heared of it being a plat either. The thing is somehow if this is the right verse this is talking about either the Muny or Worlds Fair Pavillion.

I am interested in this verse because I have family in St Louis and will be going there in November. I have read some of the threads and sounds like agreements this is referring to St. Louis and Forrest Park. I wonder if it is in a slightly less complicated way. If the first lines are from Treasure Island well Robert Louis Stevenson was the author...Louis. Also the Edwin and Edwina reference should be referenced back to Edwin Forrest (thus Forrest Park) who Edwin was named for. Maybe this was already stated but it seemed maybe the TI reference was being over analyzed and it was just meant to reveal Louis  (???)

miyaka wrote:: Also the Edwin and Edwina reference should be referenced back to Edwin Forrest (thus Forrest Park) who Edwin was named for. Has this been brought up before?  I know we have said the 2 Eds were Mr. Forrest's but I dont recall simply using his name to get us to Forrest Park...just like the quote from Hermann took us to Hermann Park in Houston.

hi miyaka welcome to the hunt if you could find a legeater in STL, that would be great hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/11924414@N00/ i found some pics of the building, one was in 1890, the other was not sure thinking maybe 30s-40s, the 1890 did not have the legeater, maybe when they overhauled the place for the club, the legeater was added. pics are to big to post, when i get time ill move them to webshots or someplace

forest_blight wrote:: Here is p. 164 of Abroad in America: Visitors to the New Nation 1776-1914 , edited by Marc Pachter and Frances Wein (1976). The "Edwin and Edwina named after him" appears to be taken directly by BP out of Abroad in America: So, just as another quote in that book connects Verse 2 to New Orleans, I think Verse 6 must connect to whichever city is associated with Edward Wilmot Blyden --- which appears to be Charleston, South Carolina.  I know you guys and gals want to believe this is Edwin Forrest, but the Abroad in America quote is just too exact and coincidental to ignore.  So, my vote is that this is Charleston. Here are some links discussing Blyden --- there are apparently quite a number of buildings, etc. containing his name in Liberia, but nothing in the U.S. that I have found thus far. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Wilmot_Blyden hxxp://www.columbia.edu/~hcb8/EWB_Museum/about_pic.html hxxp://news.sl/drwebsite/publish/article_2005148.shtml Interestingly, he was born in the West Indies, but that is a different verse!  Well, I hope you people do not mind that I continue to try and link clues in this Verse to Charleston.   :) EDIT:  Here is an interesting link regarding 1913 (though not May), and some interesting things happening with the Exchange Building around the time that BP may have been hiding the treasure, 1979-1981: hxxp://www.oldexchange.com/html/history.html We have researched White Point Gardens regarding this verse as well, and it certainly looks like it fits.  Pirates galore!

Hey folks. Location agnostic I was looking at the lines: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 There was a silent movie released in May 1913 called The Battle For Freedom. hxxp://www.imdb.com/title/tt0002667/ Maybe the two lines are trying to communicate the word "Battle". Also the line about the Bar that Binds...has the idea of a bar of music been kicked around? Maybe below the bar meaning a musical note (D)? I hope the embedded in the sand isn't literal because you know I will associate this verse with STL and dig up the sand trap at the Forrest Park golf course! Maybe the 8th hole ("Or on the eighth a scene")! Oh yeah, my wife (from STL) mentioned this statue near the jewel box; I would say that is a big palm and two arms extended... hxxp://farm1.static.flickr.com/79/25531 ... 7c.jpg?v=0

Oh yes...another Abroad in America referrence.  Thanks for pointing that out again Sir Eg.  That sure does look like a logical tie in to Charleston.  Will have to look a little further into this.  Ever since P2 seemed to be pretty concretely linked to Charleston, not a whole lot of activity has happened...possibly because of no real V linkage.  Maybe its time to use this V and start some serious work on this casque as well.

cw0909 wrote:: hi miyaka welcome to the hunt if you could find a legeater in STL, that would be great hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/11924414@N00/ i found some pics of the building, one was in 1890, the other was not sure thinking maybe 30s-40s, the 1890 did not have the legeater, maybe when they overhauled the place for the club, the legeater was added. pics are to big to post, when i get time ill move them to webshots or someplace sorry the pic was mislabled it was mount royal not stephens,though they look close i think i saw it on flcker

Egbert, I am really impressed by your finding that quote! Great job! AP

Sorry, someone else found that quote AP.  I am just resurrecting the discussion, trying to steer all of you in the right direction.

Dumb question {since I am sure the answer will be 'Forest Blight'} but has anyone read this entire book, Abroad in America ?  It is already contained quotes from 2 of the 12 casques and I am beginning to wonder if it has something from ALL of the casques.

Yes fox - Siskel and I both read the entire book, word for word, for precisely that reason. Nothing else popped out at either of us.

Just as I surmised FB...too bad there were no other references.

Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Ok I am building the case for STL & Forest Park connection still... Freedom at the birth of a century = Pres McKinley reference? Or May 1913 = Battle for Freedom movie release May 1913...about the civil war = Union Mckinley Drive and Union Drive cross each other in Forest Park near the Jewel Box.

Interesting I did some research on the Checkardome as well and found it further indicates the likelyhood of Forest Park being the location. I will post more on the STL Compilation thread soon.

I am sorry... I still just don't get S.L. out of this V, especially with the quote from 'Abroad in America' seeming to lead us to Charleston.  With the major inroads made these past few days after linking V2 to N.O., I think we could also be doing the same thing here instead of trying to force fit it elsewhere...

YEs the Edwin and Edwuna line will have to be researched closely. I will be looking at the verse closer soon to try to figure the park and city confirmers within it.

i hate these circles, going round and round, everything connected for some reason i was looking at the line again:  "waits the Fair remuneration"....which could just mean "the jewel" or "fair  RE  (fairy) (ferry)  muneration" but for some reason i did a "fair jewel" search......and guess who comes up.........washington irving, history of new york "fair play's a jewel" , about stuyvesant and minuit, from what i could gather (kind of lazy today) i was also wondering if a certain jewel was called "fair"

This is a continuation of a solution begun under Image 2. To recap: I am making an argument for Image 2 pointing to Charleston SC and the park being Washington Square Park (City Hall Park). I would suggest reading my posts under Image 2 first and then returning here. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=99439#p99439 Below is how I see Verse 6 applying to my solution. THE VERSE ANALYSIS Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old As has been pointed out before the first four lines seem to be paraphrased from Robert Louis Stevenson’s Dedication to “Treasure Island”. hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=TdTMkYgOkLYC&pg=PA283&lpg=PA283&dq=Robert+Louis+Stevenson,++Blackbeard&source=bl&ots=Dme0XswkWl&sig=pOByPAInT1VKqfDw8AhZP5kaIE8&hl=en&ei=86iBSoriLaOntgfdhdnOCg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1#v=onepage&q=Robert%20Louis%20Stevenson%2C%20%20Blackbeard&f=false Robert Louis Stevenson relied heavily on a description of Blackbeard for the creation of Long John Silver in Treasure Island. In May 1718, Blackbeard's pirate fleets appeared at Charleston, South Carolina. They plundered vessels, took important citizens prisoner and extorted medical supplies from the city before leaving. hxxp://www.charlestonpirates.com/edward_teach.html Thus these lines serve to point us toward pirates and, I think, Charleston. It may also point to the oldest sections of the city and the specific location of the Pink House (Sailors Tavern) on Chalmers Street. I also found this information, that also seems to point to the Pink House. “…the Pink House was also the founding site for an unusual club called the Piping and Marching Society of Lower Chalmers Street. … It was begun by a group of World War II veterans for philosophical discussions and judicious beer drinking. Each month a member gave a serious paper on a subject outside his chosen professional field and during their 'Winter Rout', a prize was awarded for the best presentation. At this meeting and at their 'Summer Frolic', the group marched through the city accompanied by bagpipes.” hxxp://pinkhousegallery.tripod.com/id13.html 122 East Bay, The Old Exchange and Provost Dungeon also has a strong pirate connection but no clear African theme as I will demonstrate for Chalmers street. Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words: At the time the casques were buried, The Pink House was being used as a law office but it did have a rear walled courtyard with a fountain. Standing next to the wall and facing Chalmers Street, the Old Slave Mart Museum can be easily seen across the street to the right. 6 Chalmers St, Old Slave Mart Museum --- After an 1856 Charleston ordinance ended the public sale of slaves, a number of sales rooms, yards, or marts were created along Chalmers, State, and Queen streets. The auction of slaves at the Old Slave Mart ended in 1863. In the 1870s the shed was altered for use as a tenement for black families and later an auto repair shop. From 1938 to the 1980s the building housed a privately owned museum of African and African American arts and crafts. hxxp://www.ccpl.org/content.asp?id=15669&action=detail&catID=6028&parentID=5747#8 The following lines represent what you should be thinking about as you stand next to this old pirate tavern looking at a much later slave mart. Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended These lines are about slavery, emancipation and segregation which are all African American issues that will ultimately lead us west down the street to Washington Square Park. Freedom at the birth of a century --- Paraphrase of lines from Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address. “Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation … that we here highly resolve that these dead shall not have died in vain -- that this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom …” Or May 1913 --- 1913 was the 50th anniversary of the Battle of Gettysburg (July 1-3) and the Emancipation Proclamation (celebrated on multiple dates). Both occasions were celebrated widely. However, soon after his inauguration and particularly in May, Woodrow Wilson’s begins pushing forward his policy of ”The New Freedom” and publishes “The New Freedom: A Call for The Emancipation of The Generous Energies of a People.” Wilson sites Lincoln as model but he was seeking freedom from trusts and monopolies. He also did a great deal to institutionalize segregation into the federal government and was slow to recognize women’s suffrage as well. He sites Lincoln put the nation is well on its way to healing by pushing African Americans to the back of the bus. The two lines form a though about emancipation. It’s expectation and denial. Edwin and Edwina named after him --- Edward Wilmot Blyden. Blyden’s visit to Charleston in 1889 and the twins named for him is mentioned in “Abroad in America” but is also in other sources. I had another source that even mentioned where he stayed while in the city but I was working on a different theory at the time and have lost the reference. I think it may have been in a biography about Blyden but haven’t been able to get out of the house to track it down. I found Blyden early because I was focusing on major African American events in Charleston and he popped up. I have also noticed that there seems to have been a lot of writing done about him in the late 1970’s. A search of EBSCO Host shows a lot of scholarly work during this time. So Preiss referencing him would not have been obscure or dependant upon the single book. Most importantly is why reference Blyden. Blyden was advocating immigration to Liberia because it would allow the creation of an African country where Blacks where the majority and in charge. He strongly disapproved of white and black integration and received a fair amount of criticism for his prejudice against people of mixed ancestry or mulattoes. Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended --- I am not completely clear about the first line yet, but I think I understand the second part. Washington Square Park is located next to the intersection of Broad and Meeting Streets. This intersection is known as the Four Corners of Law. Charleston City Hall, the Charleston County Court House, the Federal Post office and St. Michael’s Church make up the intersection. In the late 1940’s and earl 50’s Judge Julius Waring handed down several decisions that greatly influenced voting rights and segregation in South Carolina and the nation from his Federal court room in the Court House. Most important was June 1951 Briggs v. Elliott. Judge Waring was part of a three-judge panel presented with substantial psychological evidence and expert testimony on African-American school conditions. The court denied the plaintiffs’ request to abolish school segregation. Instead, they ordered the school board to begin equalization of the schools. In a lone dissenting opinion, Judge Julius Waring adamantly opposed segregation in public education. Siting the intentions of the 14th Amendment and concluding, "Segregation is per se inequality" The appeal of this decision was combined with other such cases to become Brown v. Board of education. Waring’s decent became the foundation of the decision overturning Separate but equal in the US Supreme Court. Together this second part of lines seems to be a thought about segregation. It's begining and result. We begin with happy bold pirates (Pink House) move to a place to consider African American issues (the Old Slave Mart) and end with the law defending their rights (County Court House). Much as the image seems to take us on a tour of Chalmers Street, the verse has lead us from one end to the other. Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand. I believe the final lines are specific directions to the casque location but I need to look over the site before going further. I do think that the line “Waits the Fair remuneration ” is very similar to a line on the Washington Light Infantry obelisk at the center of the park. Inscription: “… They were of the very flower of the ancient city her young hope and fair renown ” But I don’t want to go further without a recon. So that's what we have. It's not the complete solution Laura and I hoped to one day present but we ran out of time. If you have ideas or would like to join me, I will be going to Charleston soon. I can’t be sure exactly when but probably within a month or two. So what do you think?

wow, i like that "fair renown" here's a picture of it hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... 52dbf072a7 i don't recall having seen that mentioned b4 lol, and i was there and don't remember it

Wow jstarr, the work you and Laura have done on this is inspiring! Very well researched indeed! This will provide fodder for discussion for a long time, I think.

reading this verse again i realize BP  used HEAR HEAR HEAR .........3 times.............which could be HERE, HERE, HERE "stand and LISTEN to the birds HEAR the cool, clear song of water HARKEN to the words listen, hear and harken  all mean "to hear".................................to HERE these lines are right after the quote from"[i]treasure island[i] " about pirates makes me think it's still there where they hung those pirates at battery park (white pointe gardens) remember, the found ones didn't go in order........so the rest of the verse could just be leading you to the hanging tree or the plaque jstarr, is there anything about pirates or sailors in washington square?  could you post all the info you have on that park? i still like that "fair renown" on that plaque, and that park does have a real gate for "bar that binds" but it could be for the sandbar at white pointe gardens too......and if i remember correctly, the pirate plaque was below the sandbar there (lol, that dang italic button is just like the bold!!!!! they don't cut off!!!)

Hello again, I have posted a complete solution for Image 2 using Verse 6 under the Image 2 topic. Because Image ans Verse are so integrated I have mixed the two together instead of breaking them in half as I tried to do the first time. Please see: hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/hxxp://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=100947#p100947 Re: image 2 « Reply #361 on: Today at 12:22:49 am » and also i]Re: image 2 « Reply #362 on: Today at 12:22:49 am »[/i]

I am trying to  make some visual connection between Edward Wilmot Blyden and the area of Charleston that we are searching...some plaque or something.... (I know the "Abroad in America" connection exists...but BP would certainly have a more visual on-the-ground clue.) There is the Morris Brown AME church just 2 blocks West of Meeting St. (African Methodist Episcopal Church established in 1866 in Charleston) that had connections to Blyden through their missionaries to Liberia.  Blyden, no doubt visited this church when in Charleston.  Maybe there is a plaque or sign there... AP

Bylden interacted with several of the Black churches and institutions while in Charleston. Morris Brown AME (13 Morris St) was founded by Mother Emmanuel AME (110 Calhoun Street) in 1867. There may be a plaque somewhere at Morris Brown but I didn't research this while I was home. Here are my notes on Blyden's Charleston visit. • 1867 — Morris Brown AME Church site purchased by Rev Richard Harvey Cain • January 1876 — Richard Harvey Cain (US Representative, Missionary Record, Emanuel AME Church) writes to Blyden about a “deep and growing interest by the Colored people … in the subject of Emmigration” Reference: pg. 197, Under their own vine and fig tree: the African-American church in the South 1865-1900, Montgomery, 1993 • August 31, 1886 — Emanuel AME Church destroyed in the Charleston Earthquake. The present edifice was completed in 1891. • November 29, 1889 — Blyden begins a tour of the American South on behalf of the American Colonization Society in Charleston. – Lectured at Rev. Lee’s church and Avery Institute. – Rev. JS Lee of the AME Church (not sure which) is his host – Randall D. George lent Blyden a carriage so that he could travel – Dec 6. (Friday) Banquet Rev George C. Rowe (The "Palmetto Poet”?) of Congregational Church delivered welcome address – United Labor Association also hosted Blyden – References: pg. 407, Selected Letters of Edward Wilmot Blyden 1832 – 1912, Lynch, 1978 pgs. 126-128, Edward Wilmot Blyden: Pan-Negro patriot, 1832-1912, Lynch, 1967 pg. 28, The African repository, Volume 66, American Colonization Society May 28, 1913, 1890 At one time I had more information on his visit but I was following other leads and foolishly misplaced my notes

Missplaced notes??? DOH!

No, animal painter  wanted to look for visual identifiers for Edward Wilmot Blyden in Charleston so I posted my notes about Blyden's trip there. Meaning these would be the places to look. Does that not make sense?

There is a visual connection to the date "May 1913" in Battery Park, at White Point Gardens. The capstan from the battleship Maine, was sent to Charleston in May 1913. It finally was located in Battery Park. There is a plaque on the base which says... Presented by The Navy Department To the City of Charleston Through the Courtesy of U.S. Senator Benjamin P. (F?) Tillman May, 1913 Here are some links : hxxp://www.postandcourier.com/news/2007 ... park10547/ hxxp://www.spanamwar.com/mainparts3.htm

Here is another pointer in the direction of White Point Gardens: Blackbeard the pirate, whose name and persona were featured in "Treasure Island" made his claim to fame in real life, by blockading Charleston Harbor, with another pirate named Stede Bonnet.  Bonnet and his crew were captured and hung at White Point . where there is a monument and plaque.

The Maine capstan was installed in the west end of Hampton Park in 1913. Later it was moved to the Charleston Naval Base and then it was moved again in 1927 to White Point Gardens. In 2007 the capstan was moved again to make way for the statue of Gen. William Moultrie. There was talk of returning it to Hampton park but I don't recall if that happened or not. So in 1981 it stood where Moultrie stands now.  If you face this spot with the harbor and Fort Sumter to your back, the Stede Bonnet monument would be at around 2:00. Do you see a connection between this place and Edward Wilmot Blyden?

Jstarr, At least that plaque and capstan would have been in White Point Gardens when BP was burying the casque and collecting clue material. So far, I have found no direct link for Blyden to White Point Gardens. But BP does seem to like "leading" us to a casque location by taking a walking tour of the surrounding area. The walk down Meeting Street and its adjoining "touristy" sights, does include the AME church...as well as the African Research Inst. , museums and Slave Market. I may have to write the AME church to ask if any memorials to Blyden in the area. AP

AP That's all true. I don't think White Point is the place but I don't mind sharing research and discussing other ideas. I was putting your most recent comments together in my mind. And since the verses (Or May 1913 \ Edwin and Edwina named after him) sit next to each other I thought you might have a theory of how they worked together.

The more I research the names of Edwin and Edwina, the more I am attracted to the Edwin Harleston family of Charleston...(Shecrab earlier pointed out) Edwin Galliard Harleston , born to a slave on Boone Hall Plantation, Mt. Pleasant, SC., became a free man and made his way in shipping and opened a funeral home... You can see the Harleston sign which still exists just off Meeting St. on Calhoun. It is now Harleston Boags Funeral Home. He had a son, Edwin Augustus Harleston , who helped establish the NAACP in Charleston and also became a renown African American artist. 5 of his paintings are on display at the Gibbes Museum, on Meeting St. (That is where the sculpture of Persephone is..."Butterfly Lady") and one painting at the Old Slave Market on Chalmers St. off Meeting St.. He attended the Avery Institute on Bull st. in Charleston, Edwina Harleston Whitlock , born Gussie Louise Harleston, (Edwin Augustus' niece), was renamed Edwina and raised as Edwin's daughter. Here are 2 fabulous sites about Edwin Harleston: hxxp://faculty.citadel.edu/hutchisson/P ... on0001.pdf hxxp://www.usca.edu/aasc/harleston.htm Even though it does not lead directly to a casque site yet, there seems to be much more of a "Charleston Connection" with the family of Edwin Harleston than Edward Wilmot Blyden....with more opportunities for visual markers with the name Edwin Harleston to direct us to the casque site. Just digging around for something to find visual clues... AP

I hear ya AP, but I just can't believe that theory. In the exact same book where we found the Sarmiento quote, we also found the quote "[Blyden] was enthusiastically welcomed; he even had twin babies named after him, Edwin and Edwina Wilmot Blyden , during his stay." This occurred in Charleston. It's just gotta be Blyden.

Maybe---maybe....but if I've learned anything about this book, it's that we can't discount anything, FB. Maybe it's Blyden--and maybe it's Harleston!  It can be EITHER. And the funny thing is that they BOTH point to CHARLESTON--the difference is that Harleston actually lived there and worked there, and Blyden only visited. The family home and artifacts are still present from Harleston--there is almost nothing that ever showed Blyden even visited except that quote from Sarmiento. And as pointed as the Sarmiento quote may be, (and I cannot deny it is,) remember that we have done quite a search in New Orleans as well--and nothing that has anything to do with THAT quote was even close to showing us a casque. So I'm not willing to put all my eggs in one Sarmiento basket (or basquet? LOL)  The quotes are nice confirmers, but beyond that, what are they? If a definitive connection could be found between Blyden and Charleston BESIDES THE VISIT ITSELF, then I'd be willing to agree with it. So far, however, there hasn't been one found. I'm keeping an open mind until something more definitive is found.

FB, You may be right..If BP were enamored of the book "Abroad in America"...and used it as a handbook of clues, he may have known about Edwin Harleston and used the duplicate facts to confound the hunt. AP

Did you know that there is a Blyden Branch Library in Norfolk, VA...named for Edward Wilmot Blyden? ...opened in July of 1921... Just searching..... AP

I could not find any previous reference to this, so I will post it: There is an essay entitled "A Slave's Diary" about slaves in the hold of a ship... (I do not know when it was originally published or by whom.) It is only a partial quote from the essay  at the link below. hxxp://74.125.113.132/search?q=cache:Eh ... clnk&gl=us or at this "tiny url" hxxp://tinyurl.com/yk748by Here is the significant portion of the quote: Also we have created a worship dance that is possible considering our current restricted movement, the limbo. We sing and clap and try to lower ourselves below the bar that binds us, it is almost symbolic. AP

AP i think that was an essay written in 1989 because the students wanted the slave's point of view instead of the slaveowner's diary.  but i could be mistaken just did a quick search. been busy lately, just get cursory research time lately.

Slappy, If the essay was not written before "The Secret", we may have to take a different approach. Looking up the word "bind" for synonyms... It can mean "border' or "constrain". The bars and wall around the Battery do just that...as seen in one of Cthree's photos. If we are to look below the bar that binds , maybe we are to look below the wall. Jstarr, is there now, or was there earlier, access to the beach below the wall around the Battery? (preferably a place where there is a palm tree with a shadow ) AP

That essay and quote is a very good argument for the Old Slave Market location. It would not only fit with both Harleston and Blyden (since both worked for freedom for African-Americans) but it would also work with the concept of binding. I am also of a mind that the "bar that binds" is an earthquake bolt--the long bars that are put through a lot of the houses in Charleston--they sometimes have lions' heads as bolt covers which are visible on the outside of the building.  But this new quote brings up a different interpretation which I also like. I don't think the bar is a wall, though. That's too broad an interpretation for me. Also--the palm tree thing--it says "beside the long palm's shadow" but think about this. One cannot be "beside a shadow" for very long--the shadow will move . That would be one of the dumbest ways to track something buried unless you were to give the exact date and time you wanted to find it with the shadow--(a la Masquerade's shadow on the solstice at noon.)  Also, it's unlikely that one would describe a tall tree as "long".  So "long palm" has to mean something other than tall palm tree . Maybe a palm frond--or the palm of a hand--but not a tall tree. But.......I will give you that saying that something is beside the shadow of something else could mean East or West of that thing--East if you're talking about afternoon, and West if you're talking about before noon--because that's when you would have shadows on those sides of the thing. So technically, even though a shadow does move, one could say that "beside the shadow means to the East or to the West of something. It's still an awkward way to put it. So I'm for some other intrepretation of Palm, and long .

Shecrab, If the essay were written early enough,so that BP could have read it, we could use the quote to make more of a reference to slavery. It was the metal bars along the top of the wall that made me think of them "binding" or bordering and constraining... There are more metal bars along the pedestrian walkway between the waterfront and the road surrounding the Battery...as seen here by the Historic Charleston Foundation... AP

another idea of something that "binds" i think is the "church", wedding rings ...family....stuff like that i was trying to see if maybe BP was mentioning streets in the verse and see i made it fit, lol the "two arms extended"..........meeting street "bar that binds"........................church street AND guess what's between those two streets? the pirate monument hxxp://www.hmdb.org/map.asp?markers=191 ... 9167,19019

I believe I have found the meaning of the reference to: Freedom at the birth of a century. Apparently, Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation said that all slaves were to be freed by January 1, 1900. This is the day that blacks celebrated "Emancipation Day" Below are links to sites that tell in more detail... I have yet to find any visual markers, like a plaque. Maybe there is something by the Old Slave Mart. But since it appears that Emancipation-Day parades are still held today, BP may have been there or heard of it. AP (read down about 13 paragraphs in the following article...about Emancipation Proclamation.) hxxp://www.lewrockwell.com/orig2/miller1.html "Regarding slaves in states loyal to the government or occupied by Union troops, Lincoln proposed three constitutional amendments in his December 1862 State of the Union message to Congress. The first was that slaves not freed by the Emancipation Proclamation be freed gradually over a 37-year period, to be completed by January 1, 1900 " The following excerpt even mentions Edward, Wilmot Blyden in the preceding paragraph. hxxp://tinyurl.com/yffkgls "The colored people of Charleston, S. C., celebrated Emancipation Day, January 1 , with a street parade and speechmaking"

wow that's is great AP! i 'm not sure there has to be a visual confirmer, maybe because this is the african gem image, just to confirm the right verse!  i really like it.

i agree with slappy. i think the emancipation proclimation is a perfect explination for the 'birth' line of the verse. great find!

Yes, and it's one more marker for the Old Slave Mart.

AP - that's some great research right there. But a problem is that Lincoln's proposals were just that - proposals. They didn't pass (obviously, because slaves were freed in the 1860s, not 1900). They were also not part of his Emancipation Proclamation, but rather part of the State of the Union address to Congress in 1862. The next paragraph states: "Congress refused to consider Lincoln’s proposals, which Horace Greeley in the New York Tribune labeled whales’ tubs of "gradualism, compensation, [and] exportation." None of the Confederate States took the opportunity to rejoin the Union in the 100-day window offered and the war continued for another two years and four months. Eight months later the 13th Amendment was ratified, and slavery ended everywhere in the United States ( without gradualism , compensation, or exportation)." If it was never enacted, there wouldn't be a plaque. On the other hand, Lincoln's proposal involved mass exportation to (presumably) places like Liberia, which brings in another Blyden link (incidentally, "Liberia" means "freedom"). Regarding the January 1 quotation, it is from an 1890 publication and referred to that year, not 1900.

Follow-up. A plaque or marker could, of course, have been placed on Emancipation Day (Jan. 1) in 1900 quite independently of Lincoln's proposals. I hope that's the case!

"Or on the eighth a scene..." Could that refer to an opera? John Hippisley's "Flora", the first operatic performance ever given in America, is presented, Feb. 8, 1735, in Charleston, South Carolina. That would have been considered a scene ...It was performed at Broad and Church streets. Some time lines that say the date was Feb.8th,  and some say Feb. 18th.  some say both dates... The book quote below most definitely says Feb. 8th, 1735.  Maybe some visual clue in the area of Broad St. and Church St. to commemorate this "first". AP The link below is from: * The American Opera: Has It Arrived? * William Saunders * Music & Letters, Vol. 13, No. 2 (Apr., 1932), pp. 147-155 (article consists of 9 pages) * Published by: Oxford University Press * Stable URL: hxxp://www.jstor.org/stable/726749 hxxp://www.jstor.org/pss/726749

One more note about the line from Verse 6 "Or on the eighth a scene where law defended." According to the book quoted in my earlier post... hxxp://www.jstor.org/pss/726749 The historic first opera was produced in "the Courtroom " in Charleston, SC. (That sounds like a place "where law defended" . Here is more information about the "Court Room" in Charleston. (aka...Shepheard's Tavern) hxxp://www.scottishritefoundationofflor ... heard.html Note there are at least three "tablets" of historic information on the existing building. I imagine BP was either a history buff, or there may have been more historical markers when he was walking around in 1981. It may just be another confirmer for Charleston...and not a location pinpointer. AP

The plot thickens.... Here is information which may explain why BP, who was Jewish, would have found information about Shepheard's Tavern worth researching. An excerpt from the following book: "A portion of the people: three hundred years of southern Jewish life" By Theodore Rosengarten, Dale Rosengarten, McKissick Museum discusses the Jewish connection to the site...at the link below: hxxp://tinyurl.com/yjxtwq9 AP

AP, I think you're on a roll! You must be right about this place. In the photo below, I can see at least 5 plaques. This is definitely worth looking at in person, if anyone is near Charleston. (Edit: I should add that this is the modern bank that sits on the site of the "Court Room" in question.) So I guess "harken to the words" must mean "read historic markers in the area and they will lead you to the spot"? Parts of V6 now have more meaning: Start at White Point Garden? There's the Stede Bonnet marker and tons of water there: Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water Then walk up Church St. 'til you come to the bank, reading plaques as you go: Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended "May 1913" was on the Maine capstan marker in White Point Garden. Maybe there is, or was, a marker on Church St. between White Point Garden and the bank mentioning Blyden? BP appears to be walking us to the site, pointing out markers as he goes.

Reading the lines of verse 6: "Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow" (Don't you like BP's use of the 3 B's there?) Looking at Washington Park... It is surrounded by Meeting St., Broad St., Chalmers St., and Church St....all of which seem to have references made by either verse or image. There are multiple iron gates leading into the park. (We could definitely use more and better photos of ALL of the gates.. Google does not cover all streets...) This gate has interesting supports...or "arms"extending... "below the bar that binds." (the cross piece over the gate, which also has the curls like the butterfly lady's wings.) Do all of the gates have these "arms"? You would have to walk "between" these "arms" to get into the park...and walk "below the bar that binds". The Obelisk in the center of the park is certainly the monument in image 2, with the "border" around it, as Jstarr showed. And if you are looking at the statue of Washington, notice that one palm tree is all alone and taller..(to the left at the back.) It would cast a distinct shadow.  I would like to see the ground around that "long palm's shadow". It appears that there are plaques on the wall around the inside of the park. Do they hold clues? Areas of this park would be secluded and easier for BP to dig...maybe by the wall. Just throwing out these observations.... AP

Believe it or not...I'm still not sure that that is representation of the obelisk on the lion's head.  The 'image' continues around with an arc making it look like an: n or a: h . Maybe if when looking at the obelisk from a certain angle there is a building or something else behind the obelisk and to the viewer's right that would complete the 'n' or 'h'?

Fox, Perhaps the arch of the trees on either side of the obelisk is suggested. AP

or ...maybe it's just a hangman's noose i found this list of markers in charleston: hxxp://www.hmdb.org/results.asp?Town=Ch ... 20Carolina

And who was hung in White Point Gardens?  Dozens of pirates, that's who.

'cause,  don't the rivers around the shape of charleston look like a tree in AP's close up of the obelisk, or h or whatever?? and remember there's an obelisk in white point gardens, the uss hobson tribute........which makes me wanna tell this, tho i know my ideas get silly sometimes.. have you ever heard of "hobson's choice"....where the guy says "either take the first horse in the stall nearest the door "OR" don't take a horse at all. which means take it or leave it. and we have that "OR" in the verse sorry AP, i just saw where u had made that observation about the arch in the trees, were we talking about the same thing?

Verse 6 ends with: "White house close at hand." If we look at the corner of Washington Park, we see 3 palm trees, one of which might be the tree that casts "the long palm's shadow". Not knowing what the park looked like in 1980-81, all 3 trees are candidates. I have combined four different aerial views of the corner of the park with the 3 trees marked with X's in each.  There just so happens to be a white house close at hand ...near a nice secluded corner... If I were in Charleston, I would take my probe to Washington Park and see if there were sandy soil around those 3 trees to satisfy my curiosity. AP

I am not so dogmatic as to think that there is only one possible "White house" in the area. The Market Hall/Confederate Museum on 188 Meeting St. (corner of Meeting and Market) was designed by Edward Brickell White .  I can imagine BP using his love of word play to call this museum a "White house". Even more appropriate would be the Custom House for which White was supervising architect. That would be an even better pun for "White house". One last location... The Circular Congregationalist Church and graveyard. This burial ground is considered the oldest in Charleston, with graves that date to the 1680’s. The church is located at the site of the White Meeting House , from which Meeting Street derives its name. AP

I actually think this is more likely than a white-colored house. From the word-play that is evident in the other verses, it just seems a lot more reasonable.

would have to agree with you shecrab. we feel fairly confident with 'white is in color' from another verse directing us to another mr. white.

another play with words could be if  "washington,dc" is on one of the stones embedded in the sand on the hobson sundial obelisk thing, right?

i thought about that the other day slappy and........ sure enough, i found one, the only one as far as i can see, was hoping the name would be edward, but no and the building across the street use to be called The Fort Sumter Hotel, now condos Formerly: The Fort Sumter Hotel 1 King Street, Charleston, United States hxxp://www.glasssteelandstone.com/Build ... l/3441.php hxxp://www.hmdb.org/PhotoFullSize.asp?PhotoID=64179 hxxp://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=19148

There are at least 6 buildings in Historic Charleston which are credited in part (or whole) to E.B.White. Only one is an actual "house"...Robert William Roper House...(although it might be said that the churches are houses of God , or the U.S. Custom House .) ^ Edward Brickell White's six historic buildings  in SC are: College of Charleston Huguenot Church Market Hall and Sheds Robert William Roper House St. Philip's Episcopal Church (credit for steeple) U. S. Custom House (partial credit) Here is a wonderful website that not only shows the Historic Landmarks and who built them, but it also gives their longitudes and latitudes. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Na ... h_Carolina As for the Robt. Wm. Roper House, it is "close at hand" to the White Point Gardens/Battery. Looking at it from Google's streetview, there appears to be something on the left side of the lower window detail. Does it look like a lion head to you? I have not found any clear photos of the house with good enough resolution to make it out clearly. Still searching, AP

The earthquake bolts in that house are covered by decorative plaques shaped like the heads of lions.  Here's a better picture:

Jambone, Excellent photo! Thanks! AP

just to add logs on the fire............wasn't blyden a "west indies native" does this look anything like the circles ? hxxp://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt ... CBgQ9QEwAw

Yes, superficially it looks like the circles, but then so does a bicycle wheel, a coffee cup seen from above, or the inside of a top hat. In other words, who would see the stairs from that angle unless you were trying to capture that very picture?  It's not exactly a common sight or a visual marker that would be used as a mapping tool.

i know ck, i'm reaching, just trying to find something to help with my argument nearer  the battery, lol.

I have heard from members of the Charleston Historical Preservation Society and representatives of the Avery Research Center (African American studies). None of them have any knowledge of any visual signs in the Charleston area referring to E.W. Blyden. It was quite surprising that they were rather unfamiliar with Bylden's name or his connection with Charleston... The quote from "Abroad in America" must be just one of BP's obscure clues. AP

AP, myself, i just think blyden is to point this verse to the "africa" image or gem. doesn't that word century bother you guys?............freedom at the birth of a..........usually this would say "nation".......and then, it would strengthen my "flagpole" theory, lol that word century gets me. the jasper monument does have "1876", and that would be 100 years from the birth of our nation, right? hxxp://ytinamuh.blogspot.com/2007/04/wh ... ttery.html "The etchings on the front read: "NO MEN EVER DID, AND IT IS IMPOSSIBLE THAT ANY CAN BEHAVE BETTER - Gen Charles Lee" "ERECTED UNDER THE AUSPICES OF THE PALMETTO GUARD, Jun 23 1876 " and it does have the laurel leaves, which kindof look like the tree limbs

i don't know AP, if we didn't have such smart people to find that quote about blyden, in 1981 i don't know how anyone would have found it.  computers weren't everywhere back then. i know my first thought was "edward" or "edward booth", because of the "scene". i think i liked the "booth" part, that seemed more treasure huntery (lol, i'm sure i made up that word), and "booth" can be like a kiosk or a gazebo.  and BP said something like he thought they would all be found easily, or fast, or something like that.  blyden would not have been easy to find, like you noted, the people in charleston don't even know him.......so could it be a double clue.......an obscure one, and a "first thought" one? i don't know if white point gardens is "the" place, but it does have several pointers to the verse without being complicated. the "may 1913", the sandbar, and the pirates. jstarr i liked washington park for several reasons, a. it was named after a president, b. it had that obelisk, c. it was close to the theater.. i reread one of your posts and you had this picture: and when i realized how prominent the "flower" is in the image, that it might be important, to see the word "flower"  on a marker, seems more significant. so just because i think it's white point garden, til it's found it could be anywhere and of course, the "fair renown" is on there..........

i think i have a loose connect to edwin and edwina line In 1946, at the suggestion, of the president of the Board of Directors, a mural was planned for the east wall of the Workshop, to measure 9 feet by 18 feet, and render a composite view of the leading personalities in Charleston's 200 year theatrical history. 9. EDWIN BOOTH (1833-1893) - Foremost American tragedian played in Charleston from 1850 through the 1880's. Famous for his Shakespearian roles; also for his Richlieu. Played in the New Charleston Theatre (Meeting Street) and The Academy of Music. hxxp://www.bobheffner.com/footlight/fp_mural.shtml here is another link to edwin hxxp://www.halseymap.com/Flash/window.asp?HMID=45

Hi, For several years I lurked on this board, and I was particularly interested in Verse 6. I just happened to visit today after years of inactivity, and I was surprised to see someone mention Edwin Booth. I, too, had noticed him years ago in relation of Edwin Booth. Here's what I had theorized. The line "Edwin and Edwina are named after him" interested me especially. It could be interpreted as a purely poetic way of mentioning a man named Edwin, after whom no one was necessarily named. Alternatively, it might be a literal way of mentioning a man named Edwin, after whom a woman and a man were actually named. In retrospect, I think the former interpretation is far more likely. However, "in my youth" I assumed the second interpretation, and it led to the following interesting results... I started looking for famous people named Edwin, as cw0909 did. Like him/her, I noticed Edwin Booth, famous Shakespearean actor and brother of Lincoln's assassin. Visit his Wikipedia page for a detailed biography. I found two very interesting facts: Edwin had only a single child, a daughter named Edwina; and Edwin was named after another famous contemporary actor, Edwin Forrest. Hmm. "Edwin and Edwina were named after"... Edwin Forrest. Those were my thoughts at the time. Today, I must ask the question: Could BP have possibly known of such a connection? He probably didn't. But it's an interesting connection, nonetheless. dcw

I found a memorial in Philadelphia on the Benjamin Franklin Parkway that had Forrest's name on it. It was called "Hamlet and the Fool," I believe. Here is a photo: hxxp://0.tqn.com/d/philadelphia/1/0/o/e/parkway27.jpg Here is a very detailed description of the statue: hxxp://siris-artinventories.si.edu/ipac ... ocus  (you may need to copy this whole string and paste it into your URL) In the description you can read Edwin Forrest's name among those of several other Philadelphian actors. I spent a long time investigating the Benjamin Franklin Parkway. It is full of statues, museums, and other attractions, as well as being a likely place BP would visit if he went to  Philadelphia. It had a a large fountain and plenty of birds, fulfilling the lines "Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water." Nevertheless, I never really found much else, and I decided there was no treasure buried in the Parkway. I mention this only in case you are interested. dcw

I don't understand why this theory is still being entertained. Google estimates that there are 129,864,880 different books in the world. One of those books, "Abroad in America," contains the quote by Domingo Sarmiento found in Verse 2. THAT SAME BOOK , on p. 164, mentions that a pair of twins, Edwin and Edwina , were named after Edward Wilmot Blyden. Now that's a pretty unlikely event, that these two things would both appear in the same book. What are the odds? I'd say about 1 in 129,864,880 if the Edwin Forrest theory were true, but highly likely if the Blyden theory is true. The probability that there is any other explanation for the Edwin/Edwina is vanishingly small. To strengthen the case against Edwin Forrest, note that Edwin Booth was named after Edwin Forrest, but his daughter Edwina was not. She was almost certainly named after her father, Edwin Booth.

I wonder how BP expected readers to discover this Abroad in America without internet back then.  Would it not throw off readers?  Especially since the "palaces to shelter" quote describes New Orleans based on the authors point of view, not BP's or some random citizen. Or were there references? -regulus

I dunno reg. He apparently expected readers to find an obscure quote from Herman Melville's most obscure novel, before word-search, home computers, or the internet were widely available.

I dont necessarily think BP thought that people (all readers) would find Abroad in America, but if he used it as a source and /or inspiration he could fall back on its veracity for forming the clues within the verses. Not having a copy of the book, I would wonder on another solve if it were in the book and how it was handled:  the meeting of Lewis and Clark at the Ohio River?

Has anybody contemplated the inscriptions on the plaques of the Washington Light Infantry Obelisk? Interesting to say the least. Not only is there the "fair renown" on there, but also "between," "beside" and "below."  Could the "arms" be coats of arms that are on the plaques?

It's a good idea. I found "between" and "beside(s)," but where is "below"? hxxp://192.220.96.192/wli.pdf

There are actually four(4) plaques on the shaft base, one on each side. you've found one... i am looking for a picture/text of the others... will get back to you.

Bingo: hxxp://www.waymarking.com/gallery/defau ... gid=2&st=2 ... In the war between the States... ...Besides the maimed, wounded and captured... ...And she points with tremulous hand below... ...They were of the very flower of this ancient city, her young hope and fair renown. I'd really like to know what is etched in the dancing children (with arms extended) statue base. hxxp://columbus2004.web.infoseek.co.jp/ ... w/014.html and hxxp://rotj.files.wordpress.com/2009/10/dsc00050a.jpg We already know Fort Sumpter is imprinted on the base of the obelisk. Also, the first few lines of V6 could very well be describing Henry Timrod. One of the most famous writer, poet, and journalist  of the south, a bust of whom stands in square.

Unknown: I'd really like to know what is etched in the dancing children @Hirudiniforme This monument is dedicated to Marguerite Sinkler Valk and was erected in 1981 by the Friends of Olde Charlestowne. I'm not sure of the exact time frame for the treasure burials but I would guess the monument was either very new or not yet in place when the casques were buried. Have you read my solution for Verse 6 and Image 2 posted under Image 2 starting at « Reply #361 on: October 15, 2009, 12:08:24 am »?

might wanna check this out hxxp://www.malags.com/ - they are holding an exhibit in charleston sept 20-23... ooooh so tempting to ask!

Hi malted - I took a fresh look at Image 1 / Verse 6 / San Fransisco today and had an idea. See what you think. Edwin and Edwina named after him I started out looking at Washington St. because Edwin played at a theatre there... hxxp://www.sfmuseum.org/hist/theatres.html To the west, it runs past Lafayette Square. White house close at hand The most famous White House of all is beside Lafayette Square in Washington DC, and I wondered if BP might be using that Lafayette Square to provide clues for this one. (Lafayette Park / Lafayette Square...they both seem to have both titles.) Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 The Emancipation Proclamation, issued by Abraham Lincoln, resident of the White House. San Fransisco's Lafayette Square has an interesting history. It was the site of an observatory by a noted Californian astronomer, George Davidson . I think I read somewhere that this was the first observatory on the west coast. hxxp://www.europa.com/~telscope/califobs.txt Mount Davidson was named after him in 1881. This is San Fransisco's highest point. (It's the site of a large cross and an annual prayer meeting. The mountains in this image always reminded me of robed figures and praying hands.) San Fransisco's Lafayette Square also has a notable "White house" of its own. "A handsome white six-story residence stands within the park, facing Gough Street. It is the St. Regis Apartments at 1925 Gough St - the only privately owned building in a public park in San Francisco." hxxp://www.parkscan.org/parks?parkId=24 Here's the park... The White house is on the right - here's the view from the star... Beside the long palm's shadow There are palm trees. Here's the view from the circle. There are also tennis courts. (See cross). Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended (I was wondering if "law defending" might be a reference to someone defending a tennis title. For instance, it sounds like Dorothy Green defended her title in 1913. "Green law"...? Dunno. The globes in the sky of Image 1, or details like the yin/yang, could indicate tennis balls.) Between two arms extended Perhaps these two paths, near the courts, with a palm tree between them. Waits the fair remuneration White house close at hand This is near the white house. "Fay" means "Fair" (eg, as in fays, fair folk). If you have "fair remuneration", then you're "square" . Therefore, Lafayette Square. (Maybe this explains the dragon's head in the New Orleans pic.) Embedded in the sand That's the palm tree I mean on the left. Actually looks a bit sandy. (?)

so dig where?

Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Somewhere near the palm I guess.

...so yeah, recapping it in order: Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old Treasure Island -> Florida Stand and listen to the birds Dunno Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words: Resembles "The brook sings" from "The Water Babies" by Charles Kingsley: Clear and cool, clear and cool, By laughing shallow, and dreaming pool; Cool and clear, cool and clear, By shining shingle, and foaming wear; etc etc hxxp://www.recmusic.org/lieder/assemble ... cleId=5808 His daughter was called Rose . Don't know how this ties in with anything though. Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Back on track a little, with someone at The White House in Washington . (The emancipation proclamation is actually depicted on a statue in another Lafayette Square...the one in New York...not that I'm trying to confuse things...) hxxp://www.buffaloah.com/a/lafsq/index.html Edwin and Edwina named after him Washington St. which runs past this place. Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended I'm guessing this might be referring to a tennis match, or other game. Between two arms extended Between those two paths... Below the bar that binds Below a coconut...? Coconut bar...? The husks are used to make coir for binding. Don't palms have coconuts? Dunno much about palms. Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration Your reward, the casque, buried in the soil near the palm tree... White house close at hand. ...which is near that white house. QED Looks like they'll be refurbing the place this year.

Well, I was nodding my head and smiling politely and murmuring sure sure, whatever... I mean come on, Layfayette square, that isn't anywhere near where we have been searching... if GGpark is the iconic image, then be real, there is no way it follows the start go a long way down a city street turn left... and come on all those references to stuff in other cities and states, - non of the found ones are like that... But wait a second.... Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old  - was of course written by Robert Louis Stevenson... who lived in san francisco, near china town. as a matter of fact he used to sit in Jackson square, and tell stories to the children under the watchful eyes of their grandparents... (well known san francisco story) every lightpole in jackson square has a dragon that bears a suspicious resemblance to the one in the picture. accross the street from Jackson square a plaque noting Edwin booth played in the theater there... So now leave the Robert Louis Stevenson statue in Jackson square and step out onto the nearest street... Turn left and start walking (a mile or so, turn left) and you are in Lafayette square... it is sandy dirt around that palm. but no they dont usually have coconuts, around here they are mostly date palms IF you find an actual may 1913 or law defended link  or find that weird shape under the table in the park or the bar that binds. I will call up the city park service and go dig.

OK! Cheers...

never bought into the Ghirardelli idea, the Gh on the dress sits directly on top of the Great highway in the park it lines up perfectly with the tourist map of GGpark available in the 80's and is in the same font... and that covered it for me. With only two puzzles solved, I think it would be premature to rule out any possibilities about how the rest of them work I totally disagree, with 12 puzzles total and two solved, that those two solved in exactly the same manner indicates to me that there is a standard method across all the puzzles. if they are different, the odds are totally against randomly solving two that are the same. And it makes sense that their would be a "standard" solution to all the puzzles in the book. therefore you are much more likely to solve the puzzles by finding similarity in methods with the two solved puzzles. rather than random associations. So here's how I see it. The picture takes you to the city. in the picture is an iconic image. in this case it would be the dragon  similar to the ones found on the jackson square lamps from there go straight down a street At which point you are intercepted by the verse. The verse tells you where to turn left off the street. and then you follow the verse line by line to the exact spot you need to dig. also to be found in the picture are images of things nearby the casque site. of course you could be right, there could be different methods for each puzzle,  which would mean we cant build on the proven ideas of others, making the problem much much tougher.

maltedfalcon wrote:: across the street from Jackson square a plaque noting Edwin booth played in the theater there... (Oops, deleted that post but you'd already quoted it. Well, yeah, everyone has their own methods, but that's probably not such a bad thing... ) (Are we talking about Portsmouth Square where the RLS statue is...? About 15 blocks down Washington St from Lafayette. Not sure where the plaque is...?)

The cool clear water stuff may be "Cool water" by Bob Nolan. His wife was called Pearl . Each star’s a pool of water, cool water. But with the dawn I’ll wake and yawn And carry on to water, Cool, clear water . Keep a-movin’, Dan, don’t you listen to him, Dan, He’s a devil not a man And he spreads the burning sand with water, Cool water. Dan, can you see that big green tree Where the water’s running free And it’s waiting there for me Hey, never mind Washington St...Portsmouth & Lafayette are also connected via Clay St., named after Henry Clay. His cousin Cassius Clay helped Lincoln draft the Emancipation Proclamation. It runs under Portsmouth and leads right to the white house at Lafayette. hxxp://www.richardkiel.com/clay.html ...so we've got a road leading directly from RLS to a white house and palm trees, via "freedom at the birth of a century" in the form of the Emancipation Proclamation and its 50th anniversary celebrations in 1913. (*edit* - I thought that someone had previously connected this specifically with May 1913, but can't find that now.) Henry Clay had "a reputation for his legal skills and courtroom oratory" and defended various people in court, including his brother Cassius...

Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Because of the structure of this, I'd wondered if the "eighth" was 8th May. Been searching for Henry Clay defending something on the 8th of anything, but just came across a reference to the 8th May in his Wikipedia entry... hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Clay On the 8th May 1850, Clay presented an "Omnibus bill" relating to slavery with clauses like prohibition of the slave trade in the District of Columbia. He made seventy speeches to defend it. hxxp://www.xtimeline.com/evt/view.aspx?id=194483 Here's some info on a planned redevelopment project at Lafayette with pics etc. hxxp://www.friendsoflafayettepark.com/p ... oject.html

WhiteRabbit wrote:: (Are we talking about Portsmouth Square where the RLS statue is...? About 15 blocks down Washington St from Lafayette. Not sure where the plaque is...?) yes sorry! Absolutely Portsmouth square is the square in china town where RLS would sit and tell stories to the children. it connects directly to Lafayette via washington ave

maltedfalcon wrote:: Absolutely Portsmouth square is the square in china town where RLS would sit and tell stories to the children. it connects directly to Lafayette via washington ave Cheers...(yep, Washington and Clay. I've abandoned the faux-Lafayette theory and I'm liking Clay now since it leads straight to the view of the white house posted above. Can't find anything to pin on May 1913 yet.)

Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him OK, so my thinking is that 1913 confirms the Emancipation Proclamation by way of the 50th anniversary celebrations, but I haven't found anything that specifically connects that with "May 1913", so this may point at something else. Just found an Edwin Booth link to May 1913. This is when Equity (the Actor's Equity Association, their trade union) was formed. "Leading up to the establishment of the association, a handful of influential actors known as The Players held secret organizational meetings at Edwin Booth's old mansion." From the Equity handbook : "Equity was founded and is run by members in order to ensure safe and beneficial working conditions and fair remuneration " (These theatrical clues might tie in with Lafayette Park via the San Fransisco Mime Troupe who have a historical association with the place as well as a loose dragon link.)

just had a thought about the " ether " monument in boston........ what if the "or"  isn't Hobson's choice in charleston,  but............... either/ether  or.. ............look at the bottom of the ether statue in boston.....it looks like image 2's lion either this or either that hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/paul_photos/4521200534/ hobson's choice: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice

Unknown: For many years native San Franciscans, transplants, and tourists have been pleased and surprised to spot a polished brass plaque on a beautiful little graystone building on Sacramento across from Lafayette Park that reads: "This house, built in 1881, was once occupied by Sir Arthur Conan Doyle." ...just been listening to a 50-minute podcast about the history of Lafayette Park here... hxxp://www.sparkletack.com/2007/06/22/6 ... ette-park/ Here's a few fragments of trivia which I'll jot down while I remember them. I think the "White House" at the park (the St Regis Apartments at 1925 Gough) came into the hands of Bob Lurie at some point, or there was some connection with him...son of Louis Lurie. hxxp://www.parkscan.org/parks?parkId=24 The palms at the entrance are Canary Island Palms . There's speculation that they may have come from the Panama-Pacific International Exposition which seemed to feature a lot of them. At one time William Randolph Hearst purchased a Spanish mansion with the aim of rebuilding it somewhere else...parts of it were apparently stashed near Goldengate's Japanese Tea Garden and some of these were appropriated for Lafayette. My fave date 1881 (image 4) crops up again... (Not true though apparently - he just visited his friend the renowned quack Dr Albert Abrams there...) (Clock is at 6 = 18.00. Eighteen squares on the adjacent cuff. Interpretation of 1881 for image 4 was 81 forwards and backwards...could say the same about 18. Note that June - 6th month - is a reference to Juneteenth .) hxxp://www.sfweekly.com/bestof/2008/awa ... t-1033088/ It's right by the park, near those palms at the entrance. Apart from Sherlock Holmes, Arthur Conan Doyle is also associated with fairy-spotting. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cottingley_Fairies (This pole is just opposite the plaque. Maybe it could be a marker for a spot by the verge in the same way as the lamppost I suggested for Montreal. Bit conspicuous perhaps. I like the plaque though. I'll be keeping an eye out for Sherlock links. He published a book in May 1913 but I can't see much relevance in it yet.)

View from the plaque: Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand. (Plaque and rose-scroll circled)

The double yellow lines running down the road... I'm starting to like this place. Men of tales and tunes ...just noticed Conan Doyle and Robert Louis Stevenson knew each other... hxxp://www.robert-louis-stevenson.org/l ... onan-doyle Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended The entrance with the palms is opposite Oct avia. I suppose Holmes might be the defender of the law. (Incidentally Conan Doyle campaigned against slavery.) Those cables are part of the Clay St Hill Railroad. Andrew Smith Hallidie, cable car tsar...Robert Louis Stevenson...Arthur Conan Doyle...all Scottish . Time to dig out the field guide.  ;) "An important part of cable car operations is the cable car bells..."

(Slappy-only post...contains Fair Folk references) When I flipped through the intro to see what the Scottish fair-folk were up to, a couple of things struck me, though these notes are fairly confused even by my standards. Just some general musings. * * * * * "Thus, we are told, did the First Age of the Old World come to its end; with the departure of Twelve Nations of Fairy. (The Hill Folk of Scotland and Ireland were, in fact, near cousins and of a single nation.) And no sooner had the Twelve established themselves in the New World, than they were joined there by a Thirteenth. On the first morning of the first spring day, appeared, shining in the air, slender, golden people. Their garments were of richest silk, filigreed with serpents and flowering vines of silver. A tall, laughing archer was among them - Prince Yi, the Wanderer, bearing the great bow with which he had shot dead nine blazing suns - at his side, his Golden Mother, Hsi Wang Mu, beautiful as the moon, who bore in her hands the peaches of immortality - and Tsao-shen also, the home-loving imp, his laughing mouth smeared with honey..." * * * * * So, the "first age" came to an end with the departure of the twelve...and before the arrival of the thirteenth, who are apparently the silk-serpent-wearing, pearl-bearing Chinese of Image 1. From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl; Chaste, perfect as the silver moon "Beautiful as the moon" ties in with "perfect as the silver moon". The idea of the first age ending, and this mob arriving, also seems to chime with this fragment: The First Age ended; the New Age began. The wind still brings the sounds of that Sweet Swarm; Now, for their Honey - find it, if you can. Tsao-chen has the honey, and I'm wondering where he fits in. * * * * * There seems to be deliberate confusion between 12 and 13 tribes of fairy. There are 13 listed on the map, but the Chinese are also mentioned as "not shown" for some reason, and instead we're given separate entries for the Scottish clan (who include the "Silkies") and the Irish, even though we're told these are "of a single nation". I'm currently thinking of the Scottish as being the San Fransiscans, and hence also the Chinese...(told you I was confused)...so conflating the Scottish and Irish might imply a link between I1 / V6 (Chinese) and I5 / V12 (Irish). The Irish puzzle features Lincoln, who also shows up in the Scottish/Chinese puzzle via the Emancipation Proclamation. Maybe "of a single nation" is hinting at the Pledge of Allegiance, originally: "one nation indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" ...and subsequently amended to: "one nation under God, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all" ...the words "under God" having been borrowed from Lincoln's Gettysburg Address ("this nation under God shall have a new birth of freedom"). * * * * * (The cross-referencing between the puzzle and the introduction is undeniable, the images being bound up with gems, nations, etc., which I think are far from irrelevant. Having said that, I'm not sure if there's a rational and consistent pattern to it. Although any cross-referencing with the field guide that follows is more debatable, being completely muddled and reportedly denied by BP, I'm inclined to agree with your recent suggestion that BP may have "seeded" the text with ideas from the puzzle; I'd had the same thought. He might perhaps have made notes of things to include, or edited the descriptions afterwards. I generally ignore it now, though when I noticed that Conan Doyle had published a novel in May 1913 based on the theme of a cloud of poison gas, I couldn't resist flipping through it, and found one under "West Ghost", along with gold, shadows and palm trees. Coincidence? Probably. I don't think the field guide can be trusted to make any sensible or reliable deductions, but I suspect it's somehow obscurely informed by the puzzle.)

Unknown: Although any cross-referencing with the field guide that follows is more debatable, being completely muddled and reportedly denied by BP, I'm inclined to agree with your recent suggestion that BP may have "seeded" the text with ideas from the puzzle; Quite a trick considering he didn't write the field guide.

I wondered if he might have edited it, or provided notes about things to include in it. Anyway, this was marked "Slappy only".  ;)

hey whiterabbit,  i like the way you are mixing verses to different images.  i think the trees need to be shaken for the shoes to fall  :)    ( or whatever, lol) and yeah, i'm not really using the fair folk guide, except to see what might be in the parks where the cask is buried.   but the litany and the front of the book, no one could argue, could hold some clues. but you'd have to do some convincing to get this away from golden gate park because of the shape of the park in image 1,, and her hands for crossover drive, near the japanese tea garden and the Bell Gate entry ----------------(the bell in the image) and the moon bridge notice his name " Shinshi chi Nakatani
---(Tsao -shen ) and "slender, golden people" (golden gate park) hxxp://www.timeshutter.com/image/arch-b ... california "From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl; Chaste, perfect as the silver moon" i haven't really gone back over image 1 threads, but i remember finding the "bar door"  (image in the rocks) at one of the entrances to golden gate park, i think it might have been part of a hospital or doctor's office, (i can't remember til i go back thru the threads) but also, i like #1 (highway one)  for " On the first morning of the first spring day, " number 1 (highway)=first and/or it could be pointing to Image 1- ( the first image) because i do believe BP tried to give obscure hints, and we might not be reading them right, but they are there and BP might not have wrote the fair folk guide,  but i can't imagine an editor or author not checking what is written, and editing it to make sure  it says what he wants it to say.  i sure wouldn't put my name on something that i hadn't read, much less a book i supposedly wrote....... (i'm gonna post this first part to image 1 also) shoot i might as well add these thoughts too i still like verse 7 better for san francisco----- "near ace is high"-------------highway 1, "chaste, perfect as the silver moon-------------perfect=aces

slappybuns wrote:: ...you'd have to do some convincing to get this away from golden gate park because of the shape of the park... "From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl; Chaste, perfect as the silver moon" OK...you're saying that the shape of the park is in the image, and point out the pearl/moon link. The most moon-like thing in Image 1 is the 11 spheres hovering overhead. So how about we say these are pearls... ...and compare the map to the image like this... ...putting Lafayette on the pearl shown top right.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I wondered if he might have edited it, or provided notes about things to include in it. Anyway, this was marked "Slappy only".  ;) If you don't want someone to respond to your posts, don't post them on the main board. We have PM functions for that.

(Quite right Shecrab. It was just meant as a small joke though, really.  :))

Sorry. It did not sound like a joke.

Sounded like a joke to me Mr.Rabbit.  Still have to believe we are straying from the simple...obvious....

Sorry Shecrab. My bad. I'll try focus.

Something to consider about the "long palm's shadow":  How "long" do you suppose that palm tree would be 30 years ago? My guess is that it would not be very long at all. They grow about a foot per year. Thirty years ago any palm tree you find now would probably be 30 feet shorter.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: OK...you're saying that the shape of the park is in the image, and point out the pearl/moon link. The most moon-like thing in Image 1 is the 11 spheres hovering overhead. So how about we say these are pearls... ...and compare the map to the image like this... Except your map of GG park and the image of the lady are backwards, if the map is correct your picture of the lady needs to be reversed left to right ...putting Lafayette on the pearl shown top right.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Except your map of GG park and the image of the lady are backwards, if the map is correct your picture of the lady needs to be reversed left to right (Yep, quite right...like jimerson's version here . That puts the kind of background mountain/water scenery by the beach, which is much more logical. You could say it puts the pearl in the sea, where you'd expect to find it. The golden collar could be the beach, and GH the Great Highway as you previously pointed out.) Since this is the V6 thread and I'm drifting off-topic, I'll throw this in... Or on the eighth a scene Eighth letter is H, which is the point on jimerson's map I was looking at here .

Re: Edwin and RLS, I've only just realised there's an RLS plaque at 608 Bush St, just down the road from Edwin's one at 440 Bush St. That's pretty weird. So...trying something different with this verse, you could start by the RLS plaque which is on the corner of Stockton St., head north to where it hits Beach St. at the top, then turn left down Beach St. (corresponding with the Beach Boys quote after the RLS quote) which takes you past the Ghirardelli sign. That takes you miles from Edwin before he gets a mention though.

Below the bar that binds At least this place has one of those. Dragon's tail...? People say they like GGate, and Ghirardelli. But you can't have both. You have to choose. View from Beach St... That pink building to the left of the circle is the Maritime Museum. Quite like it as it's "between two arms extended" and "on the eighth" street from the Stockton junction. (I know people have been here before. I need to find a way to cram in Equity and the Emancipation Proclamation though. The Maritime Museum is on the intersection with Polk , but he was slave crazy.)

Lots of murals in that museum. Here's a dragon-octopus.

If we're talking about the Gh from Ghirardelli though, the reversed version is more appealing. There's a bunch of places you could see that from. For instance, here it is from Van Ness. If you wanted a decent, long walk, you could go the end of Beach St and then head down Van Ness to the War Memorial Opera House. That way you could settle the Booth/Blyden dispute by nailing them both. (Blyden hung out there during the Treaty of San Fransisco. Alternatively you could turn off at Clay for a roundabout route to Lafayette Park.)

Stand and listen to the birds If you just wanted a shorter walk from the plaques on the other hand, Union Square is a heck of a lot closer. They filmed Hitchcock's The Birds there, and it has dragons. (OK, they look more like seahorses, but they'll do.)

Freedom at the birth of a century (Built 1914) Or on the eighth a scene where law defended It's by Sargeant John Macaulay Park, eight blocks from Union Square. (Haven't dated that yet) It's on Larkin St...birdsong again...? Head up there and you're back at the Maritime Museum.

isn't johnny law euphemism for policeman ?

More than likely. And if you like chocolate, Larkin is Ghirardelli central. You've got the sign. You've got the hair. Everything you need.

thought i would walk from GG pk,to the Ghirardelli sign ,and see what i can see mostly i went,by the google dir it is 2.8 mi took a detour over to new century and the sgt pk hxxp://tinyurl.com/6aqfqwn Ghirardelli sign, the G & h backwards from bay and larkin,at russian hill pk hxxp://tinyurl.com/67xr33s how does the dir go again, a right a left,and a right ? hxxp://tinyurl.com/628prhl slappy youll love these links walking through GG PK Virtual Walking Tours hxxp://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/golden_gate_park.htm San Francisco web site Index Virtual Walking Tours hxxp://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/search.htm i dont think its here,i just have fond memories of buena vista park sf back in the day, if you couldnt catch a bed or floor,this was ok, its in the haight hood hxxp://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/M-oyI3PM ... VgGjzDDcyA

Unknown: The San Francisco Juneteenth Festival is the oldest and largest Juneteenth Celebration outside of Texas where Juneteenth originated. On June 19, 1865, Union General Gordon Granger issued General Order No. 3 in Galveston, Texas declaring that slavery was illegal. This was almost two and a half years after President Abraham Lincoln signed the Emancipation Proclamation (Jan. 1863) and four months after the passage of the Thirteenth Amendment which abolished slavery, but the proclamations had been meaningless until Union forces actually occupied rebel territory. Quick recap. I figure Image 1 takes you to the intersection of Lincoln Way and 48th Ave as described here . After kicking this verse all round town, I ended up at the same spot. Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old Stevenson plaque, 608 Bush St Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words: Hitchcock's "The Birds" was filmed at Union Square. The song is the Beach Boys' Cool cool water , "Drink a little drip drip drip drip drink a little" etc - the drinking fountain at Union Square. Freedom at the birth of a century This concerns Juneteenth and the Emancipation Proclamantion, June being the month for this image. Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him More Union stuff...50th Anniversary of the Emancipation Proclamation, but also the foundation of the Actor's union "Equity" which involved Edwin Booth, whose plaque is near Stevenson's. (Union Square was named for the Union rallies.) Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Eight streets away, the New Century cinema and Sargeant Macaulay Park. (Park not dated, but the cinema was there, and I can live without the sarge.) Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand. Continue to the end of Geary, named for SF's first Mayor, and head across GG Park to the aforementioned intersection and the sign for the beach. Could read the "long palm" as palm beach, "embedded in the sand" as below the sign for the beach, "Fair remuneration" as a flashback to Equity (quote from handbook), white house as a white house that's opposite, the two arms as the road and the path by the sign, the bar as Geary. Parts of this could also be interpreted as a description of the relevant part of the image.

Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended The William Jay Gaynor memorial in New York's Cadman Plaza has "Or May...1913" on the front... ...and "lawyer/defender" on the back... (The area has a "Sand" St., a "Water" St., and the Manhattan Bridge, which carries the Audrey Munson statue I once suggested for image 12.) The idea for Cadman's Brooklyn War Memorial was hatched by the Brooklyn Eagle .

I was browsing May 1913 issues of The San Francisco Call and found a SF (and St. Mary's Square) connection with The White House. Apparently it was a big department store back in the day. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/army_arch/2740913105/ That's at the corner of Sutter and Grant (now 'The White House' parking garage), 3 blocks south of St. Mary's.

Nice find ChunkTug. (That's still visible.) Welcome to The Secret ... My current favourite for this verse is Image 1. Goldengate Park is pretty convincing for that image, though I also like all the things in the St Mary's Square area which seem to tie in with this verse, with a possible trail to SF's Lafayette Park. (See last two posts on this page .) There's also a link with Charleston (Image 2) you might have come across while browsing these threads, "Edwin and Edwina named after him" appearing in "Abroad in America" (also identified as the source of a quote in a different verse) and referring to Edward Blyden's stay there...though Charleston seems to go well with V5. (There's a cool "May 1913" sign in Charleston's White Point Gardens - see P27 of this thread.) I don't know what most other folks make of this verse at the moment. It's definitely one of the grey areas. If you wanted to get from RLS to GGP, the simplest route would be down Clay from the statue at Portsmouth Square Plaza near St Mary's, right to the end, then turn down Arguello Blvd, entering GGP via the Arguello Gate. (Leaves / spirals...?) hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Luis_Antonio_Arg%C3%BCello This part of GGP isn't far from the tennis courts. Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Eighth court? Laws are defended there. (Ties in with the curious "long palm" and its possible connection to "longue paume".) (In the case of the Lafayette Park courts, the "eigth" might be "Octavia".)

Unknown: And for the parts of the verse that have been puzzling, we've been trying to find some "Bar that binds," and "Long Palm's Shadow" and so forth, that feel like more of a match than sandbars and palm trees. Well, I think I may have found that match. Before I get into that, though, here is the reasoning behind this: I know from posts about it here that May 1913 might refer to the donation of the USS Maine's capstan to Charleston for display (first) in Hampton Park and (second) White Point Gardens.  So I looked up the Maine--hoping that it had been "bound" by a sandbar (the Bar that BINDS) or soemthing like that. Instead I found something else. It occurred to me that a "bar that binds" might be referring to the ship's ANCHOR. So I looked up what type of anchor the Maine used: they used something called a TROTMAN anchor. And that's a pretty standard looking anchor.  But then I looked up the parts of an anchor...and sonofagun---look what I found: Note that the Anchor has ARMS and a PALM.  "Between two ARMS extended---below the bar that binds" might be referring to underneath the anchor--and it's PALM. The "long palm" might mean that the anchor has one palm that is longer than the other--not uncommon. And the shadow it casts might show the exact location of the casque. So maybe this is exactly where the casque is buried--under an anchor--in either Hampton or White Point Gardens. Embedded in the sand beside the long palm's shadow. BAck in 2007, I posted this: Just reminding everyone.

Twas brilliant then and brilliant now did anybody go look? and they have moved tons of stuff around in that park any idea if the location is still correct?

oh yeah I remember this now. There aren't any anchors at White Pointe Gardens, Cannons, cannon balls a music stand, and lots of statues, and the capstain from the maine. spent a lot of time trying to find out if there had been a anchor that had been moved but no luck...

No there weren't any anchors in White Point Gardens, or at the Maine site. HOWEVER....there just might be a whole lot of them at the Patriot's Point Naval and Maritime museum across the Bay--north of the island. To get there you need to take what USED to be known as the Silas Pearman Bridge (now gone--replaced by another bridge) OR the Fort Sumter Ferry --and I would take a good look at the image because it sure looks to me like that dancing lady (with the "bridge-like" arms!) could be considered a "Fort Sumter Fairy". That "long palm's shadow" might be there after all.

In fact, check this out: hxxp://maps.google.com/maps?q=fort+sumt ... .2,,1,2.53 This anchor just happens to be on Patriot's Point road, which is right there at the Maritime Museum site. Just sitting there--right on the side of the road. A perfect place to dig...maybe. Want anchors? We got anchors.

Unfortunately, there is two anchors at that location - one on each corner and the anchor that you see looking like this... now looks like this... because of this... looks like quite a bit of new construction... this place was nominated as museum site in what, 1975? There was probably a lot of work done since then. I think, though, you're theory is intriguing at the least.

These aren't the right kind anyway--the "palms" of these anchors are not different sizes, and they're not the old style--these are giant Naval ship anchors. STill, there are anchors all over the place. That's both good AND bad when you're looking for a square foot of soil. However--following the rest of the clues, there ought to be a white house and sand nearby. That ought to narrow down things a bit. The park was begun in 1975--I don't know what had been done by 1980, but there is a five-year span that allows for time to do something. I think we need to explore this place. Looking at the image again, I noted a few things: There is an evergreen branch with the Pear hanging from it, the branch goes from left to right, above the five-sided "clock" figure, to the fairy. This pretty much describes the general geographical situation of the Pearman bridge, being north of Fort Sumter, and slightly to the left. You may also note that the patterns on the fairy's wings are not symmetrical, and if you look at a map, some of the shapes resemble the islands: Drum Island and Sullivan's Island, and of course, Fort Sumter, but also the island where Castle Pinckney is (which is a circular fort--there are circular shapes on the lower wings, too). The Fairy has her arms linked with her hands clasped in the middle, which would describe how the bridge from the City of Charleston crosses over to Point Pleasant, and she also has her feet crossed. I think this is telling us something: CROSS the Harbor ON THE FERRY, or the FERRY CROSSES the harbor. Note also that the wings are basically blue with brown and black masses and white edges--sort of like brown and black masses of land in the ocean, bordered by white sand beaches. Now the Pearman bridge is no more--it was removed and replaced with the Arthur Ravenal Bridge. However, the location has not changed--only the bridge itself. In fact, there were TWO bridges that crossed to Point Pleasant that were replaced by the one Ravenal bridge: the Pearman bridge, and the Grace Memorial bridge. Of the two, the Pearman bridge was the more simple silhouette--very closely resembling the arms of the fairy in shape. At any rate, I think these things are worth noting--because this, in my opinion, is the way this puzzle is constructed. Besides the obvious map of Charleston harbor, plus the correct latitude and longitude and the "African" theme in general, there is no real trickery beyond a simple pun on the word Fairy(ferry) and suggestions of shape with the arms, the wing designs, the colors and the (fort Sumter) clock--and a pointed suggestion with the "crossed" feet--for one to CROSS the bay. Oh, and there's one more thing: On very old maps, Charleston Harbor is marked with a prominent note: across the mouth of the bay is written "CHARLESTON BAR". That's for the sandbar that "trapped" ships  at low tide. The "bar that binds?" Perhaps. My opinion only.

you know... if the first few lines are guiding us to pirates... this could be the Charleston pirate house. Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold on the front of the house, which borders St. Phillips church cemetery, is a prominent anchor. this could be cueing us what to look for for the last lines which, shecrab mentions, could quite possibly be about an anchor Seen here prominently in front of that cemetery is a sign that Edward Rutledge, signer of the declaration of independence, is buried within. By eyes of old ...just thoughts.

Edward Teach the pirate got his boat stuck on a bar just outside of charleston.  He was given a royal pardon shortly thereafter but had another go at piracy anyways.  Could that be what is meant by 'freedom at the birth of a century?' or Freedom Park? Fort Macon? cool, clear song of water = sound, "Core Sound"?  using the alliteration and idea that a core is something that is often referred to in terms of temperature. between two arms extended = cape, if one wears a cape and reaches out their arms it is certainly between them. I'm starting to get a feel for Harkers Island.  I don't see anyone else has suggested that yet.  It isn't far from Charleston.

I suppose the pear fruit on image 2 has a core. The limb looks contour similar to the Outer Banks too.

Yet another interp of "long palm's shadow": Just east of Sullivan's island, is Isle of Palms. The two islands are literally only dozens of feet away from each other across a narrow waterway called the Breach Inlet. Isle of Palms is the larger island and was settled first, and is the home of many pirate legends about buried treasure. The first name of Isle of Palms was actually "Hunting Island," then it was renamed "Long Island." But at the "birth of a century" (i.e. 1899!) it was purchased by J. C. Long (!) and renamed Isle of Palms and Mr. Long began promoting it as a place to be "free of the heat and bustle" of Charleston's hot summers. So "freedom at the birth of a century" might just have a much more mundane meaning! Isle of Palms sported the state's first amusement park--with Ferris wheel--opened in 1912. Isle of Palms is a mile wide and seven miles long. Running the length of it is Palm Blvd. Bisecting it is the Isle of Palms connector--an interstate that spans the waterways and islands on this side of Charleston harbor. All its streets are numbered--1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc--and "on the 8th"--?  Probably not the real meaning of that line, but it's fun to think about. The company that developed Isle of Palms as a "getaway" place is called Sea Pines Co. Note the PINE in the image. There's some interesting information in this article and on the website. hxxp://www.iop.net/AboutUs/IslandHistory.aspx

Lighthouse centric idea on what the Eighth scene might be: Price’s Creek Lighthouse Eight lighthouses once illuminated the 25-mile stretch of the Cape Fear River between Oak Island and Wilmington. Confederates destroyed these lighthouses as they lost control of the river. By the late 1880s, the lighthouses were replaced by unattended beacons. The brick shell known as Price's Creek Lighthouse is the only one of the eight lighthouses built along the Cape Fear River that still stands.

shecrab wrote:: Just east of Sullivan's island, is Isle of Palms, and is the home of many pirate legends about buried treasure. The first name of Isle of Palms was actually "Hunting Island," then it was renamed "Long Island." But at the "birth of a century" (i.e. 1899!) it was purchased by J. C. Long (!) and renamed Isle of Palms and Mr. Long began promoting it as a place to be "free of the heat and bustle" of Charleston's hot summers. So "freedom at the birth of a century" might just have a much more mundane meaning! The company that developed Isle of Palms as a "getaway" place is called Sea Pines Co. Note the PINE in the image. Unknown: E. Lee Spence, a pioneer underwater archaeologist and prolific author of books and articles about shipwrecks and sunken treasure discovered, with the help of Isle of Palms residents Wally Shaffer and George Campsen Esq., many shipwrecks along the shores of the Isle of Palms in the 1960s. Their discoveries included the Civil War blockade runners Rattlesnake, Stonewall Jackson, Mary Bowers, Constance, Norseman and the Georgiana. Yep, the Isle of Palms is definitely worth considering. The fringes of the butterfly wings resemble beaches. They have turtles (previously suggested). Sea Pines developed the "Wild Dunes" resort (circled) which gives us possible courts (scenes where law defended). hxxp://www.wilddunes.com "John Charles Long (Known to everyone as J.C.)" hxxp://www.iloveiop.com/jclong.asp (Previously suggested the lion with a cross in his mane as a Christ symbol - Lion of Judah ...I suppose JC would be a bit of a stretch...)

I'm in almost complete agreement with this idea. Too many solid confirmers here--but we MUST find the white house and the "shadow" of the long palm in order to pinpoint the casque site. Big disclaimer though: Hurricane Hugo (2005?) washed away a LOT of these islands. Lots of buildings, lots of landmarks. The "Katrina" of South Carolina. I don't have much hope that a REAL casque will ever be uncovered. Not when he buried it in sand, much of which is now gone. Still, I wonder if we can ever pinpoint the burial site? I'm very happy with this location.

I like this Long Palm Island idea a lot.  Could the smaller island you mentioned be the "in the shadow of"?  What is on this smaller island?  hmmmmmm

The smaller island is Sullivan's Island, just to the WEST (if the sun rises in the east, anything in the west would BE in the shadow!) of Isle of Palms. It's just a few dozen feet away from Isle of Palms, and the two islands are separated by a waterway, or channel, called Breach Inlet. This waterway is narrow and according to history accounts, treacherous. There have been shipwrecks there. But for Sullivan's Island, here is some info--I think we have seen this before in this thread. Sullivan's Island was the disembarkation port for over 40% (ca. 200,000) of the slaves traded to the Britain's North American Colonies, making it the largest slave port in North America. It is estimated that nearly half of all African Americans had ancestors that passed through Sullivan's Island. “There is no suitable memorial, or plaque, or wreath or wall, or park or skyscraper lobby,” Toni Morrison said in 1989.[3] “There’s no 300-foot tower, there’s no small bench by the road.” On July 26, 2008 the Toni Morrison Society dedicated a small bench on Sullivan's Island to the memory of the slave trade. THere's our African-American connection, no doubt about it. On 28 June 1776, an incomplete fort was held by colonial forces under Colonel William Moultrie against an onslaught by the British under General Sir Henry Clinton's army sailing with Commodore Sir Peter Parker's men-of-war. The British cannon had no effect on the sand-filled palmetto log walls of the fort; only the shots that came above the walls took any lives. The Battle of Sullivan's Island was commemorated by the addition of a white palmetto tree to the flag of South Carolina. The victory is celebrated and June 28 is known as Carolina Day. What's on the small island is Fort Moultrie!

Sullivan Island is also where Poe set "The Gold Bug," one of the great treasure-hunting stories (and the source of my signature quote below).

shecrab wrote:: What's on the small island is Fort Moultrie! Unknown: Fort Moultrie is a unit of Fort Sumter National Monument, which is part of the National Park Service, an agency of the U. S. Department of the Interior. Any digging within the boundaries of a National Park, without a permit and just cause, is a violation of the law. Now there's a bunch of stick-in-the-muds. Once tried to get them interested in the puzzle and all they had to say was

(Cheers Hirudiniforme, I never really absorbed all the stuff about V6 and Charleston before. So this plaque, and wonder woman, and the Washington obelisk are all nearby...better take another look at these old trails. Taking another look at the obelisk I'm not really convinced about that...neither the top nor the base seem to match particularly. Wonder what else that could be though...)

A lighthouse?

no... the obelisk is next to this... and this (i.e., freedom at the birth of a century)... The southwest corner of the park is the county courthouse/city hall that is surrounded by these...

Strange that this verse mentions if you are standing and listening to the birds, and that you are hearing the cool, clear song of water... NOT that you are hearing the birds' songs. Could the birds be emitting the noise of water? these are all at Calhoun Mansion - Meeting St. (between two arms extended)? ...Back to Washing Square (by eyes of old)?

Well, we've certainly been here before. These are all well and good, but they're all on the wrong side of the harbor if we are going to consider Isle of Palms and Sullivan's. I checked out the Pirate's house, as well, --here's a photo essay: hxxp://fitzhughwilliams.org/website/piratehouse/piratehouse.html and again, though it is a "white house" and it is "nearby", that's the only connection to the verse I can see. The Pirate house has literally no place to dig at all. the anchor on the front of it has no palms, long or otherwise. I'm inclined to stay across the harbor--because of the ferry/fairy and because her legs are "crossed" and her arms look like the two bridges, as well as the Pear(man bridge). I think these are very strong indicators that we should CROSS the harbor; I don't think it could have been be buried at Fort Sumter itself--though I can be wrong about that. It was 1980 after all, and there was no security like now--he might well have buried the casque there without a lot of interference. I'm willing to consider Sumter, but we've pretty much been all over Charleston the city and haven't found enough confirmation anywhere to influence a digging site.  Remember--the verse says "BETWEEN" two arms extended. The little arms on the statues are not wide enough to contain a between. The obelisk-shape on the mask could very well be a lighthouse. There are two very famous ones in the harbor. One is on Sullivan's Island. I do like the bird/fountain thing, though. That's a clever interp. It's a common enough fountain fixture--maybe there is another one on the other side of the bay?

I want to consider "long palms shadow" as a structure of some kind and something which has the effect of "handiness" at a great distance.  That could be a wide number of things.  A lighthouse.  A brige.  For location purposes the "between" on two arms extended might be a very specific detail.  This has a lot of promise for someone on the ground working....i think my hands are google-tied on this one.

shecrab wrote:: Well, we've certainly been here before. These are all well and good, but they're all on the wrong side of the harbor if we are going to consider Isle of Palms and Sullivan's. Unknown: I checked out the Pirate's house... and again, though it is a "white house" and it is "nearby", that's the only connection to the verse I can see. The Pirate house has literally no place to dig at all. the anchor on the front of it has no palms, long or otherwise. Unknown: I'm inclined to stay across the harbor--because of the ferry/fairy and because her legs are "crossed" and her arms look like the two bridges, as well as the Pear(man bridge). I think these are very strong indicators that we should CROSS the harbor; Unknown: I don't think it could have been be buried at Fort Sumter itself--though I can be wrong about that. It was 1980 after all, and there was no security like now--he might well have buried the casque there without a lot of interference. I'm willing to consider Sumter, but we've pretty much been all over Charleston the city and haven't found enough confirmation anywhere to influence a digging site. Unknown: Remember--the verse says "BETWEEN" two arms extended. The little arms on the statues are not wide enough to contain a between. Unknown: The obelisk-shape on the mask could very well be a lighthouse. There are two very famous ones in the harbor. One is on Sullivan's Island. Unknown: I do like the bird/fountain thing, though. That's a clever interp. It's a common enough fountain fixture--maybe there is another one on the other side of the bay? Thanks for your responses, Shecrab. Mind considering my following opinions? Why are we trying to inject the Isle of Palms or Sullivan's Island when the picture clearly denotes Charleston? While I don't think branching outward with our ideas is a bad thing, I lived in Charleston for a couple of years on Coming St., and you would never hear somebody say they are from Charleston if they lived on one of the islands. These are a remarkably far, time wise, traveling distance from Charleston. Also, if we are moving outward, why not consider the White House Plantation on James Island - owned by the Lawton family? Why keep moving outward... We already know these verses can be applied to almost any city? I really don't think that the Pirate house is where we would dig, rather it is the starting point of reference. Like the other verses (dare I say this is a common consensus), the first few lines are where we start: Boston (?)                             Cleveland                          NO(?) If Thucydides is                     Beneath two countries     At stone wall's door North of Xenophon               As the road curves            The air smells sweet ... and so on Also, I don't think the white house is the pirate house. As has already been discussed, Washington Square is on the Four Corners of the Law (law defended?). Directly across from the City Hall (SW corner of WSP), is the Charleston County Courthouse, designed by Hoban - the man that designed the real DC White House. Could this not be considered "White house close at hand?" These could be/are simply to ways to cross the harbor to get TO Charleston, the bridge or the ferry coming from from Mt. Pleasant. Agreed that the times, they are a changin'... but, the only thing making us move outward from Charleston is our inability to find an exact visual confirmer, like the solved images provided. This could be due to changes, or we simply haven't layed our eyes on it yet. Or, the obelisk could possibly be this image; although, the solved images seemed to have stronger/more detailed representation. This is a tough one. I can't decide whether I think this is Meeting St., and uses a partial confirmer ("between" "below" "beside" all on monument, as well as "Fair Renown," in caps) of WSP on Meeting St., or if this is the begining of our "exact spot" directions. The Sullivan's lighthouse is intriguing, but I fall back on the fact that while this might technically be Charleston, you would never hear somebody say so (e.g., if you ask where Sullivan's or Palms is, you won't be told Charleston; you'll be told just north of Charleston. Sullivan's and IoP are different towns. The Cleveland and Chicago solves did not point to a city, and then direct you to leave that city to go to a town nearby. Again, why does there need to be another one, when we have one IN Charleston? Thanks for the props on the idea, though. I've been piecing through that one for a while. Overall, I just don't see why we stray so far from cool, clear visio-textual (i might have made that word up ) confirmers  ;) The satillite images of the cleveland and chicago solves utilize visual clues within city-blocks of each other, not across a harbor in another town with a different name; the other highly plausible proposed solutions also have this in common. I just don't see this image being different. A few things I've been pondering: 1) Has anyone else has yest discussed the time capsule next to the obelisk in WSP as the correct interpretation of "Freedom at the birth of A century"? This leads me to believe something is freed at the onset of 100 years, not THE century (meaning a specific century i.e. 1800 or 1900). 2) Could the obelisk outline be outlining the path we take in Charleston? The image outlines an area from White Point Gardens all the way to Washington Square Park, notice the location of the bulges. When you map a route between all the locations I've used as confirmers... ... You can see that these all fall (more or less) within that central area, with the top of the obelisk being WSP: 3) There are several obvious abnormalities in the image that have not been discussed: 1 - curving line 2 - straight line 3 - hook-shaped feature The straight line and curve make a semi-circle, like the windows that are abundant among/above Charleston doors. 4) Could the lion's hair be indicating pinestraw? It might explain the pine branches and twigs in the image: I didn't put that second arrow there... Is it on your image? 5) Why in the world is this wing like this: Any ideas on these?

Unknown: Why are we trying to inject the Isle of Palms or Sullivan's Island when the picture clearly denotes Charleston? The Cleveland picture clearly showed the outline of Ohio--but that didn't mean it was in Cincinnati. The Chicago picture didn't show any state outline at all. I don't see the problem. Yes, it shows Charleston--HARBOR. The whole thing, islands included. The edges of the wings show the outlne of Sullivan's Island And a reasonable facsimilie of Isle of Palms. It also shows Fort Sumter--but that doesn't mean the casque is on Fort Sumter either! More than trying to make it fit Charleston city--which we've done for years now without success--perhaps it's time for a fresher take on this. Those wings always bothered me--they do not show anything that resembles anything IN the city of Charleston. They DO show lots of possibilities for the location being around the harbor--since the background is blue (like water) and the edges are white (like sand beaches) and the spots are brown (like land masses.) Isle of Palms/Sullivan came from the line "Long palm's shadow" .  Again, we can't pick what lines we like best--we have to at least try to incorporate everything in the verse to the location. The Long Palm did not show up anywhere in Charleston city that we could find. The fact that you have a large Pear and the bridge-like arms and the crossed feet and a FAIRY at all would not suggest staying IN the city, but crossing, by bridge, ferry or other method, the water. If not to find the casque, then why not? Why start in Mount Pleasant and cross to Charleston when starting in the most obvious location--Charleston--and crossing to the casque seems more logical?  At least it does to me. The hairpin like shape in the mask also has a large curving line that extends from it to the right around the eye-hole. What about that? You don't address that shape; the others you mentioned--the curving line, the straight line and the hook--I'm inclined to think are simply artistic license and not significant since they are hardly visible. The arrow you mention is not on my image. And what about the star on the Sumter clock? Any thoughts? How about the splotch on the lion's face above its left eye?

Maybe BP located a casque near Roanoake based on an Elizabethan/Chess theme, then he hopped on a ferry headed to Charleston and decided his next casque would be a Windstorm/Lighthouse/Boatwreck theme. Could the lion be a "cape lion"?  A note about this extinct species mentions they have distinctive black ears.  Maybe it's just an effect but the lion does have a dark or black area for an ear. The Romans used the lion as a symbol.  I wonder if the Cape Romaine National Refuge is where this going.

shecrab wrote:: The Chicago picture didn't show any state outline at all. Yes it did, Its to the left of his face/hat Under the castle outlined by the "crane" it is Illinois in reverse.

The last three lines seem to br specific to the defunct lighthouse that isnt lit.  Its embedded in the sand, it waits to be lit (fairy muneration = sparkling light).

Unknown: Yes it did, Its to the left of his face/hat Under the castle outlined by the "crane" it is Illinois in reverse. Oooh, I really doubt that's it. It's only a little suggestive of IL, but when you compare them side-to-side, they don't match at all. Whereas Ohio is exact.

It's as exact as the map of lousiana in image 5

Hi charris.  I like about half of your thoughts and already you seem to have gotten farther than myself with interpreting the verse. The part i don't agree with is the Byrds band idea.  Kinda seems out of the blue.  The yoke of a bell is a stroke of genius.

Thanks!  I appreciate your honest opinion.  It is a big stretch, and it is very difficult to take my focus away from the tennis court idea. That was a very clever solution.

Charris. Youre welcome.  Just know that I'm a grain of sand stuck in a desert-worn sandal around here.  There are at least a dozen lurkers.  All keen observers.  My theories constantly shift like the dunes so don't let anything I've said stop you from having fun and don't let the eerie quiet smother your introspections.

The Secret (1982): "White house close at hand." Zork I (1980, opening line): "You are standing in an open field west of a white house, with a boarded front door. There is a small mailbox here."

charris wrote:: ...it is very difficult to take my focus away from the tennis court idea. That was a very clever solution... Damn right.  ;D Tried my best to persuade people in the vicinity, Friends of Lafayette Park, the tennis club, plenty others, to check it out, but to no avail. The hardest part of this book is the digging part.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: The fair remuneration may signify no more than the casque; the Fair Folk's reward. I think you nailed it. I might have homed in on the meaning of white house close at hand.  There are twin lighthouses.  One is brick red and one is white.  The older reddish lighthouse was later replaced by the taller white lighthouse.  The white house is a white lighthouse.  Close at hand means "in the near future" or "within reach".  Do we then focus on the original lighthouse as that would make sense when saying white lighthouse has yet to be built?

Law defended. I wonder if its a bar on a stair.  You hold onto the handrail for support and safety while ascending or decending.  What if law equates with lawyer which is a barrister?  Then a bar for support might translate into law defended.  Isn't it called a safety rail or a handrail?

or a bannister

maltedfalcon wrote:: or a bannister are you welcoming the idea that Preiss uses even more extreme word play?  Barrister / Bannister?  Or safety rail just = bannister?

neither just noting the word you were looking for was bannister.

I think the Treasure Island link is one of the best finds so far as this verse goes.  I think it's our first clue to look for an island in the vicinity of the Lat/Long.

My take on this verse is that its near, around or in central park (despite what Preiss said). Too many coincidences in this interpretation, I do believe Im on to something. The first few verses describes the theater. With the words May 1913 & Edwin and Edwina I do believe he is referring to the booth theater. Booth theater named after the brother of john booth who had a daughter edwina. Booth theater is in the middle of the theater district and runs to 8th st. "or on the eigth a scene where law defended." Cravath, Swaine & Moore is a big lawfirm that has been arond for a while. Their building is hard to miss. Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palms shadow The monument to the USS Maine has two arms extended (dedicated May 1913) The Columbus circle statue has anchors The Grand Army Plaza has a long palm in her hand White House close at hand There was a building just south of central park called the white house. There is also The Plaza hotel in brilliant white.

It's. Not. In. Central. Park.

I agree with white rabbit. so is there a smaller park, in the area that is not part of central park?

maltedfalcon wrote:: I agree with white rabbit. so is there a smaller park, in the area that is not part of central park? No need to be snippy. The Maine monument and the Army plaza are at the entrance of central park. The other clues are not. There are several small parks around there that i am looking into. I havnt gone too deep into this casque but when i found the above clues I got excited. I also like the area because Preiss lived nearby. The line about listening to the cool clear sng of wate might indicate a fountain or river in the area. Anyways just a thought I thought to share since I didn't see most of them mentioned.

I'm inclined to condem the New York location, along with image 12 which doesnt look at all like Manhattan to me, but rookhunters approach intrigues me.  I'd like to understand better what kind of approach anyone thinks is appropriiate for any of the other verses.  I dint think Cleveland and Chicago solution knowledge has been enough for us to know what will work for the other casques.  Empiricism does have its limitations.

May 1913 and on the 8th a scene where law defended.  Really puzzling. I feel confident it is to do with a lighthouse on Lighthouse Island (formerly known as Raccoon Key) using the painting to indicate an animal with a mask as a riddle for raccoon which has a mask.  They are often referred to as masked bandits.  Where law defended?  What was the prize that was subject to some kind of theft attempt?  The only drama I could discover was  ghost story about a woman who was murdered by her husband, the lighthouse keeper, after she buried all her wealth somewhere in the vicinity during a stormy night after having an argument with her husband.  He murdered her and got off the hook claiming she committed suicided (on his death bed he confessed his crime).  How did law defend in that case?  What kind of law was defended?  Marital Law?  Where was the justice?  That the treasure was never claimed to have been found might be something to considered.  She protected her wealth by burying it.  She was then buried near the lighthouse (where exactly I don't know).  Another interesting thing to note is the lighthouse has an octagonal base.  Eight sides.  On the eighth a scene.  A view of her grave perhaps? Its hard to research this one in particular since the tourist industry barely supports the site now.  There is hardly any upkeep at all.  The area is condemned for all practical purposes and the only access is one or two trips during the Summer with a tour boat and a handful of lighthouse history enthusiasts.

Unknown: Rodman Law, self-billed as "The Human Fly", climbed up the outside of the United States Capitol while both houses of Congress were in session, climbed up the side of the building and then climbed his way up to the top of the Dome, intending to place his hat on top of the statue at the top. A guard at the capitol persuaded Law to go no further than the statue's base. May 7th, 1913 (Wednesday) Perhaps this is a case of "Law" defending his talent for climbing.

I'd like to know if the Village Museum contained any work or perspective on the artist Edwin Harleston. The more I think about it, I see that line "Edwin and Edwina named after him" as meaning Edwin (father) and Edwina (daughter) named after him (her father). My guess is the line references the artist not for his art specifically but for his link to a family funeral home, which might be needed to focus on the site of the Keeper's wife's grave.  Perhaps it was just represented by a simple wooden cross in the distance.  Perhaps that's why there's a cross on the left side of image 2.

Besides the long palms shadow, Shadow as something which is lesser in size.  The frond of a palm could represent victory in the athletic competitions of early Greece.  It could represent martyrdom in Christianity.  Idiom idea: "...the palm of the hand" to be handled or under complete control or to know something or someone extremely well.  One of the main attractions is that of a lion keeper for demonstrating their control over the large and powerful lion.  The keeper of a lighthouse exhibits control over a far reaching light source.  In this sense I like the idea of a keeper and his lighthouse.  This line suggests the casque or a marker is beside a lighthouse.  Question is, is it the old one or the new one?

Stand and listen to the birds, This could be referring to a structure, a stand which supports another object. In bird watching jargon, the sound of birds may be their song, or it may be their drum, a rhythmic percussion such as made by the woodpecker. I'm working with the idea that this water cistern drum is a significant object and it might be that this line is crytic reference to it.

Unknown: From Robert Louis Stevenson's Treasure Island (compare to the first 2 lines of V6): TO THE HESITATING PURCHASER If sailor tales to sailor tunes, Storm and adventure, heat and cold, If schooners, islands, and maroons, And buccaneers, and buried gold, And all the old romance, retold Exactly in the ancient way, Can please, as me they pleased of old, The wiser youngsters of today: --So be it, and fall on!  If not, If studious youth no longer crave, His ancient appetites forgot, Kingston, or Ballantyne the brave, Or Cooper of the wood and wave: So be it, also!  And may I And all my pirates share the grave Where these and their creations lie! Finally starting to come together! FB posted this in literary references: I underlined Cooper, the profession that is "barrel making". The verse: Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Treasure Island Cruel and bold Murder? Seen here By eyes of old Witnessed by blind eyes (age related blindness) = no witnesses Stand and listen to the birds Drumming, the woodpecker is an example of a bird that drums Hear the cool, clear song of water Rain percussing on the metal cistern barrel Harken to the words: A sermon? Freedom at the birth of a century Barabas, avoided the penalty for murder Or May 1913 Woodrow Wilson was president.  Diminutive of Woodrow is "Woody" Edwin and Edwina named after him Father and daughter: succession Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Battle of Fort Sumter where Union soldiers (Law) defended against Confederates shortly after the 8th state seceeded from the Union Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Supported by two arms (concrete blocks) the cistern barrell (bar) that holds (hold = bind) water Beside the long palm's shadow A helping hand: the beacon of a light house reaches a long distance, "long arm", assisting sea vessels Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration The casque is your payment White house close at hand. Riddle: The White House, home of the President: who is closest at hand?  A: Vice President. Hello tenuous theory... So I have Woody the Woodpecker, clues about drumming, possibly a loose anagram of drummer = murder, escaping penalty for murder, cistern / rain barrels, successor, succession, and secession: the parent and child, the President and Vice President, and the withdrawl from the Union. Andrew Johnson, the lighthouse keeper and murderer Andrew Johnson, the succeeding Vice President to the assassinated President Lincoln. This is one messed up hunt.

Could "edwin and edwina named after him" just be a really obvious clue for [ C ] Harleston (i.e., Edwin Harleston )? All the letters are here to C There really are only a few possibilities of who this could be referring to, and Harleston would be perfect as a clue.

Nod. Hey, I researched the New York Times May 1913.  Lots of material there.  The Leo Frank ordeal looked interesting.  There was an article about a judge who saw the same sea turtle three times in 53 years on the coast of Long Island...each time he carved his initials and the date on its shell.

My thoughts on... Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Supported by two arms (concrete blocks) the cistern barrell (bar) that holds (hold = bind) water the blocks do not in anyway resemble arms. feet perhaps not arms. the cistern also really doesn't seem remotely barrel-like. and lastly holding is not at all binding. also the leap to barabas seems very remote and un-likely. I really like the C - Harleston !

Thanks for your thoughts maltedfalcon. I personally thing something which contains or holds something is "binding".  To say that the word bind doesn't mean "to hold" is to discount the dictionary as factor. Barabas being the most significant "FREEDOM" related aspect of the crucifixion is purely without argument.  Sorry, but I've attended enough mass (not just Easters and Christmas) to know this.  So saying Barabas is a leap in that respect is purely a pathetic opinion that falls short of seeing the overall point of "Harken to the words:". The point of Harleston as being a Charleston clue in the verse might be a good idea, but that doesn't seem to be necessary given that we have absolutely vivid clues to Charleston already in the image with the map segment and the lat and long. I think I've come very close to locating the casque in SC now that I've got a fully formed perspective. The first lines of verse 6 indicate "treasure island". The last line is a riddle: White house (President), "closest at hand" = Vice President. The type of moth defined by the wing pattern is the Polyphemus moth. In Greek mythology, Polyphemus was a giant, a cyclops, and blinded by Odysseus. Seen by (witnessed) Eyes of old (blindness may result from old age) A lighthouse might be seen as a giant with one eye. Pulling it all together: find a lighthouse on an island with a keeper who shares the same name as one of our Vice Presidents. The Keeper of the Cape Romain Lighhouse involved in the murder of his wife in 1873 was named Andrew Johnson, which is also the name of President Lincoln's successor. I should add that this photo of the 1827 lighthouse and cisterns is taken from the top of the stairs of the 1857 lighthouse.  What a perfect parallel: this lighthouse anf Polyphemus are both giant, one-eyed, and blinded.

I'm still thinking "freedom at the birth of a century" is the time capsule next to the obelisk in Washington Park, and that "White house close at hand" is referring to the County Courthouse, across the street (designed by Hoban, then seen by Washington and asked Hoban to do the White House). And May 1913 Presented by The Navy Department To the City of Charleston Through the Courtesy of U.S. Senator Benjamin P. Tillman May, 1913

Hirudiniforme wrote:: I'm still thinking "freedom at the birth of a century" is the time capsule next to the obelisk in Washington Park, and that "White house close at hand" is referring to the County Courthouse, across the street (designed by Hoban, then seen by Washington and asked Hoban to do the White House). I really like the way that resolves the line, but I don't see the connections to get to that place  in the thematic way and the designation of a dig spot has been unclear.  The "time" integrated in the "Sumter tag" hanging from the chain is time-capsuley, and Pearman Bridge might play into it...oh, hey, that gives me an idea:  it's over the Cooper River...Cooper/Barrel maker? An interesting idea came to someone I chatted with last week from tweleve.org in response to my take on "Between two arms extended".  I said it sounded like two men in a duel of pistols.  He said, "sounds like Aaron Burr vs Alexander Hamilton."  I totally loved that idea.  I like that it involved a Vice President and a Treasurer (treasurer island?!  :D).  I also thought it was a cool clue should the casque be found near Weehawken, but obviously that doesn't work here.  Perhaps there would've been some great duel in SC...Civil War??  Perhaps between two arms extended there are two wrists, hands, pistols with bullets and barrels...a cloud of smoke and twenty paces (ten paces for each participant). I might bring attention to the sermon of the anti-dueling pamphlet in response to the death of Alexander Hamilton.  Curious, what in SC might be relatable to Hamilton? Back to thoughts concerning Freedom at the birth of a century, I suggest it could be about Barabas' release from prison.  I just now consider the citation that cistern is also a reference to a dungeon or underground prison.  This cistern barrel is a prison for water.  It holds it and it releases it.

Or May 1913, 1913 Mayor?  John P. Grace was Mayor of Charleston from 1911-1915.  The John P. Grace Memorial Bridge sat next to the Silas Pearman bridge.

erexere wrote:: Or May 1913, 1913 Mayor?  John P. Grace was Mayor of Charleston from 1911-1915.  The John P. Grace Memorial Bridge sat next to the Silas Pearman bridge. What does that have to do with 1913?

Or May = Mayor.  Who was the Mayor in 1913?  Is the name relatable to any specific object or place? etc. Just looking for clean cut cleverness.  There's a simplicity to discover if we just open our minds.  Whether it works here or not is another story.

Check this out, just glanced at this mention of illegal drinking saloons called "blind tigers".  Maybe it's a reason for having a lion in image 2... hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=CU-anH ... on&f=false

I just got around to investigating the Village Museum in McClellanville and it's only established since 1999.  My interest was to investigate the local tourism.  So far I can ascertain is that the stories and history was well established by the late 60's.  I'm not sure when Tourism really took a dive. Mid 80's is my guess.

erexere wrote:: I just got around to investigating the Village Museum in McClellanville and it's only established since 1999.  My interest was to investigate the local tourism.  So far I can ascertain is that the stories and history was well established by the late 60's.  I'm not sure when Tourism really took a dive. Mid 80's is my guess. And you were trying to get me to send my woman there to look... without even researching the date of your clue? Wow.

I knew I'd catch crap for that.

erexere wrote:: Or May = Mayor.  Who was the Mayor in 1913?  Is the name relatable to any specific object or place? etc. Just looking for clean cut cleverness.  There's a simplicity to discover if we just open our minds.  Whether it works here or not is another story. why not this one...

It doesn't make any sense to the puzzle that I can see. I'd want to see a connection to the Lat/Long of 33/79.  I like the aviator connection, but I'd me more impressed if it were an aviatrix.  Any visual support from image2 in that or near it?  Where's the Charleston relation?  You holding back something?

Read from here: [quote="Sonoran"][/quote] down.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Read from here: down. That makes more sense now but also offers more questions.

The first line:  Of all the romance retold Initially this gives us our first clue, find an island, what local stories involve a treasure.  There are several island areas near Charleston.  My focus is on Lighthouse Island in Cape Romain. Eventually I see the location as having to do with the retelling of a story of romance.  One reading of the clues has something to do with the drumming of a woodpecker type bird.  Drumming has the same use as bird song in terms of attracting mates, hence romance.  I believe we are looking at an actual drum in the form of a water cistern when we recover the casque.

The line "stand and listen to the birds" is a huge clue.  Consider the first line as it applies to birds.  Romance retold might be interpreted as a mating call and respose.  Drumming such as that of the woodpecker is a consideration. Woody woodpecker.  Mel Blanc, birthday in May (born in 1908, not in 1913).  Blanc = white. Thinking of a fun alternative to 'white house close at hand' being Blanc house, or Woody the Woodpecker's house, which would be a tree.  "tree close at hand"? Woodrow Wilson, president during May 1913, "Woody"?

A bar is a place you go to drink. Below the bar that binds Below the water cistern barrel, a holding tank for water.  Bind = hold.

Freedom at the birth of a century We have to guess if this has to do with a particular century.  If we go with the first century, then freedom might apply to Barabbas, the murderer released.  If we go with the 20th century, in a sense of being current, this hunt beginning in 1980 would look at year 2000 as the nextmost turn of century.  If we blur the lines or take the word Freedom as a reference to Lincoln, we might wonder how that helps us any.  I'm considering the line "or May 1913" to be 87 years before the next century's birth.  Four score and seven = 87.  My best reason found to make use of the references to Lincoln and the sounds of birds is to consider his assassination and his vice president Andrew Johnson, closest at hand to the White House, and the Walt Whitman poem that references the song of the thrush bird to Lincoln.  It also mentions the orb or star that is the planet Venus, perhaps a clue to be linked to the lepidoptera woman.  Andrew Johnson was also the name of the Lighthouse Keeper at Cape Romain which fits the Charleston coordinates.

I cant see how it is just a generalization So it must have to do with a particular century. there are only several that could apply. Your idea for the 1st century is possible, but doesnt seem to get us closer to a location that leaves us the 20th or around 1900s or the 19th, around the 1800s. or the 18th around the 1700s or the 17th around the 1600s prior to that wouldn't be likely to be associated with the general area to be a clue.

Would anyone consider a bar (or a pattern of bars) binding a window (the space, not the pane)? There are windows containing different patterns of bars directly behind the statue of the children with extended arms in Washington Park that I was considering. Let me know if this has been brought up...I think I have caught up on all of this... I will post a picture when I can...I might try to go by the park today too to verify.

The first thing I think of when I see "Below the bar that binds", "long palm's shadow", and "embedded in the sand" is a beach. A bar is a small thin area of deposit typically composed of sand, silt or small pebbles. It extends into the water or connects two areas of land. Could it be possible to find a bar that touches land at both ends in an area of interest and look south of it? "Below the bar that binds"? This idea with the reference to Treasure "Island" may be something.

Another possible vote for White Point Gardens...has anyone brought up this for the line "Or on the eighth a scene" ? Not just the 8th (of a month for example), but the 18th or 28th ?

I believe these lines all tie to Abraham Lincoln: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Freedom at the birth of a century, paraphrases the Gettysburg Address in response to the Emancipation Proclamation (Jan 1. 1863).  The Freedman Memorial to Lincoln and the Emancipation Proclamation was dedicated on April 14th, 1876 (100 years after 1776 and the Declaration of Independence). The Lincoln Memorial Highway was "born" in May of 1913.  The 100th year anniversary for the birth was held in May of 2013.  (Other dates of official recognition pertain to various roadway achievements and negotiations). Edwin Booth, brother to John Wilkes Booth, had a daughter named Edwina.  John Wilkes assassinated Lincoln. The Civil War broke out in response to the building tensions over slavery and the seccession of the 8th state, South Carolina on April 12th, 1961 shortly after President Lincoln assumed his position at the White House.  Law, the Emancipation Proclamation, was defended at Fort Sumter. --- The reason for referencing Lincoln and Edwin [Booth] is to identify the topics of secession and succession, leading to the conclusion of who succeeded Lincoln: Andrew Johnson, closest at hand in the White House.

Some pictures I took that could related to V6 (White Point Gardens and Washington Park). May or may not be a contribution... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lir1nimps3cj0ka/DZfF9kHj8K

Nice pictures.  Thank you for posting them.

Egbert wrote:: Nice pictures.  Thank you for posting them. Anytime! Hoping someone can see something that I didn't! Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

rookhunter wrote:: My take on this verse is that its near, around or in central park (despite what Preiss said). Too many coincidences in this interpretation, I do believe Im on to something. The first few verses describes the theater. With the words May 1913 & Edwin and Edwina I do believe he is referring to the booth theater. Booth theater named after the brother of john booth who had a daughter edwina. Booth theater is in the middle of the theater district and runs to 8th st. "or on the eigth a scene where law defended." Cravath, Swaine & Moore is a big lawfirm that has been arond for a while. Their building is hard to miss. Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palms shadow The monument to the USS Maine has two arms extended (dedicated May 1913) The Columbus circle statue has anchors The Grand Army Plaza has a long palm in her hand White House close at hand There was a building just south of central park called the white house. There is also The Plaza hotel in brilliant white. Sorry, not sure if anyone else has said this before.  Allow me to add to Rookhunter's posts above. There is an Edwin Booth statue in Gramercy Park, which is near 20th street and Park Avenue. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gramercy_Park_Edwin_Booth_statue.jpg hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramercy_Park I haven't looked into the park itself, but it is a possibility.

Egbert wrote:: Nice pictures.  Thank you for posting them. tjgrey wrote:: Some pictures I took that could related to V6 (White Point Gardens and Washington Park). May or may not be a contribution... https://www.dropbox.com/sh/lir1nimps3cj0ka/DZfF9kHj8K I like grame Gramercry Park is interesting because th statue was unveiled in 1913. Booth also founded the AEA in 1913. The problem I see is coming up with a link to "freedom at the birth of a century". and "on the eighth.." I can find other parts of Manhattan linked to the other two verses but not all three together. Also, if it is in Gramercy park, we will have a hard time digging as it is a super exclusive private park.

Egbert wrote:: Sorry, not sure if anyone else has said this before.  Allow me to add to Rookhunter's posts above. There is an Edwin Booth statue in Gramercy Park, which is near 20th street and Park Avenue. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Gramercy_Park_Edwin_Booth_statue.jpg hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gramercy_Park I haven't looked into the park itself, but it is a possibility. I've looked into this before too, but didn't see it mentioned in the wiki... Gershwin lived there. I looked into it because it followed the same "straight line" from the building theory that Chicago and Cleveland did: hxxp://goo.gl/maps/3wUJt

just tossing it out there maybe v6 goes to new orleans, i havent  had a lot of  time to see if anymore of the V fits in N.O. Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes.......maybe this means theatre Edwin and Edwina named after him.........found edwin forrest in N.O. pg 81 Forrest made his first appearance in New Orleans on Wednesday evening, February 4th, 1823, as Jaffier,being then only seventeen years of age.On the first of January, 1824, Caldwell opened his new theatre on Camp Street, with Town and Country, Forrest playing Captain Grlenroy. pg 84 Jane Placide Made her first appearance in New Orleans, January 4th, 1823, exactly one month before Mr.Forrest s appearance in that city. -------- from The life of Edwin Forrest : With reminiscences and personal recollections (1874) hxxp://archive.org/download/edwinforres ... esrich.pdf hxxp://archive.org/details/edwinforrestlife00reesrich Caldwell opened 2 theatres, the Camp Street and the St. Charles,guessing from old maps i think somewhere close to these marks hxxp://goo.gl/maps/iT02y In 1824 he opened his Camp Street Theater, which was located outside the Vieux CarrŽ, in Faubourg St. Mary. He later built the elegant St. Charles Theater hxxp://www.iadb.org/exr/cultural/catalo ... eater.html The St. Charles Theatre was located on St. Charles Avenue, between Poydras and Gravier Streets hxxp://www.saengeramusements.com/theatr ... charle.htm

I still feel like this could be Gramercy Park in NYC.  Edwin Booth statue, Stanford White lived there. Players's Club founded.  The only thing is that it's not a public park, you need a key to get in.  And any chance it could have survived 30 years practically anywhere in Manhattan?

Momatrance = phish4harpua?

my PT handle is Surita, used to be momatrance

Might "dames blanches" (pg. 10 Passage to the New World #7 ) refer to white ladies. White Ladies are African spiders, African plants, and African butterflies. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lady_(disambiguation) The butterfly has the same design as the I2 woman (minus the "points"), but the black and white areas are inverted. White Lady inverted to Black Lady. So, maybe the black lady is a hint for white point garden, given to Edward Crisp as remuneration for mapping the area. hxxp://walledcitytaskforce.org/2008/04/17/crisp-map/ Maybe "between two arms extended" refers to two cannons (two arms). Maybe "embedded in the sand" refers to refers to the 11-inch Dahlgren Gun, whose plaque states it was salvaged and "raised from the sand" hxxp://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/5 ... 7e4f60.jpg Maybe the "long Palm's" shadow is the Palmer house, which is next to the gun. It opened as a bed and breakfast in 1977 and has "long" been in the "Palm's" family - 170 years. hxxp://thepalmerhomebandb.com/index.php ... almer-home https://www.google.com/maps?ll=32.77026 ... 6&t=h&z=20 Maybe the lion's-head earthquake bars on the row-house next door refer to the lion in the image. https://www.google.com/maps?ll=32.77079 ... 2,,0,-4.29 A lot more to look at here. Haven't seen these clues mentioned... Anybody wanna do some fresh pondering with me?

WhiteRabbit in Image 1 thread... wrote:: "Cool, clear water" is a quote from "Cool, cool water" by the Beach Boys. hxxp://tinyurl.com/m8fowof Hmmmm...

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Might "dames blanches" (pg. 10 Passage to the New World #7 ) refer to white ladies. White Ladies are African spiders, African plants, and African butterflies. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_Lady_(disambiguation) The butterfly has the same design as the I2 woman (minus the "points"), but the black and white areas are inverted. White Lady inverted to Black Lady. So, maybe the black lady is a hint for white point garden, given to Edward Crisp as remuneration for mapping the area. hxxp://walledcitytaskforce.org/2008/04/17/crisp-map/ Maybe "between two arms extended" refers to two cannons (two arms). Maybe "embedded in the sand" refers to refers to the 11-inch Dahlgren Gun, whose plaque states it was salvaged and "raised from the sand" hxxp://img.groundspeak.com/waymarking/5 ... 7e4f60.jpg Maybe the "long Palm's" shadow is the Palmer house, which is next to the gun. It opened as a bed and breakfast in 1977 and has "long" been in the "Palm's" family - 170 years. hxxp://thepalmerhomebandb.com/index.php ... almer-home https://www.google.com/maps?ll=32.77026 ... 6&t=h&z=20 Maybe the lion's-head earthquake bars on the row-house next door refer to the lion in the image. https://www.google.com/maps?ll=32.77079 ... 2,,0,-4.29 A lot more to look at here. Haven't seen these clues mentioned... Anybody wanna do some fresh pondering with me? Or perhaps Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow is referring to two "R" ms extended, the Robert Roper House (the house with the lion-head earthquake bolts), built by Edward White, and next door to the Palmer House. hxxp://pdfhost.focus.nps.gov/docs/NHLS/ ... 001692.pdf

There are only two cannons on WPG's east side, they are each other's "mates" per the plaque on Ten-inch Columbiad Cannon. The other is the Eleven-inch Dahlgren Cannon, which was embedded in the sand, per its plauque. These made up "two-thirds of Fort Sumter's three-gun battery" per the same palque. Between the two stood the Capstan, or May 1913. Next to the Columbiad Cannon, below the bar that binds it to its base, beside it is a palm. The palm's shadow would make the tree "longer" when it is in line with the trunk and running west (or is it from the east??). Directly behind the trunk toward the brick base's back corner, or directly next to the base across from the bar that binds. Looks dug.

not sure it was mentioned, you can Gman walk there now.. hxxp://goo.gl/maps/FvfYl

Hirudiniforme wrote:: hxxp://tinyurl.com/m8fowof Hmmmm... Unknown: Have some cool clear water Have some cool clear water (Drink a little drip drip drip drip drink a little) Have some cool clear water Have some cool clear water (Drink a little drip drip drip drip drink a little) That's a nice find. Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words: Drinking fountain...? Here's the Little Dancer in White Point Gardens. hxxp://paintcharlestondaily.blogspot.co ... ancer.html (Bonestructure came up with a few nice thoughts on this combo over at SA, summarised here - shame they couldn't get permission to dig.) I think AP or someone suggested the "little dancer" for the butterfly dancer in the pic once before, though I hadn't really noticed its proximity to the mortar and cannonballs which were suggested for the circles in her wings. A little digging is the task For treasures shining, moonglow, amber The monument to the left is the Amberjack memorial. Looks like a palm next to it...? The lion has amber eyes.

Where's the 1913 capstan? Because it doesn't seem to be where it says on this map. hxxp://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2 ... 324,575479 Is the map wrong, or has it been moved?

Alright! WR back in the game! I looked at the SA suggested theory and photos when posted, but I just don't see anything being buried on the water-side of the battery. No way. This is what made me think that the fountain could not be the "two arms extended." However, that "amber"/amberjack reference ain't bad. I can see it being a clue of something in the area, same as "dames blanche," but the verse doesn't mention it at all. Hmm.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Where's the 1913 capstan? Because it doesn't seem to be where it says on this map. hxxp://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=2 ... 324,575479 Is the map wrong, or has it been moved? It was moved. It used to be directly between the cannon "mates," as the map indicates.

OK, cheers. Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Only just noticed the Sumter monument is the "Defenders of Charleston" monument, though I expect this has been pointed out before. Is that an eight-sided base...? (There's also the pirate monument with the pirate hangings on the 8th Nov 1718 though.) I can see there's a strong case for WPG and this verse. Tricky to follow a trail through the possible references though. The most logical dig spot would seem to be between two cannons, statues, or statue arms. Could the barred surrounding fence be the "bar that binds"...? Bit of a stretch, but it's always been hard to interpret this line. Sounds like BP was perhaps also hinting poetically at slavery, so it might not be a "bar that binds" very literally. I was never very convinced by the "sand bar" thing, and I think "embedded in the sand" probably just means "in the ground".

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Drinking fountain...? Here's the Little Dancer in White Point Gardens. hxxp://paintcharlestondaily.blogspot.co ... ancer.html (Bonestructure came up with a few nice thoughts on this combo over at SA, summarised here - shame they couldn't get permission to dig.) I think AP or someone suggested the "little dancer" for the butterfly dancer in the pic once before, though I hadn't really noticed its proximity to the mortar and cannonballs which were suggested for the circles in her wings. A little digging is the task For treasures shining, moonglow, amber The monument to the left is the Amberjack memorial. Looks like a palm next to it...? The lion has amber eyes. I like the extended arms of the Little Dancer fountain. I always liked the idea of that fountain or the one in Washington park being the "two arms extended" because if the casque were buried literally between the two arms below some bar, it would narrow the dig spot to no more than two feet wide. (Like below the barred window (or the earthquake bolts, whichever) up against the wall in Washington Park.) I just never found a fit for between the two arms of the Dancer fountain in WPG. Do you think Bonestructure (or likely others') theories of that taller palm in WPG and that immediate area has merit? Did Bonestructure say if he were to dig, he would do it outside of the park in the flowered area lining the street? Or was it on the outside of the barrier/harbor wall (on the water side)? If it were inside along the street, wouldn't this be off-limits according to one of the dig rules in the book ("no public flower beds")?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: OK, cheers. Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Only just noticed the Sumter monument is the "Defenders of Charleston" monument, though I expect this has been pointed out before. Is that an eight-sided base...? (There's also the pirate monument with the pirate hangings on the 8th Nov 1718 though.) I can see there's a strong case for WPG and this verse. Tricky to follow a trail through the possible references though. The most logical dig spot would seem to be between two cannons, statues, or statue arms. Could the barred surrounding fence be the "bar that binds"...? Bit of a stretch, but it's always been hard to interpret this line. Sounds like BP was perhaps also hinting poetically at slavery, so it might not be a "bar that binds" very literally. I was never very convinced by the "sand bar" thing, and I think "embedded in the sand" probably just means "in the ground". WR- Absolutely tricky. I can see almost every line working for this location, but the "bar that binds" has me baffled. I never saw the streets, the sandbar, nor the fence around the point very practical. Also, the Sgt. Jasper monument has "June 28th 1776" on it. This was the fit for that line for me. hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/8743204139/ I'm not sure that the Sumter memorial has an eight-sided base...I did wonder if the design in the lion's forehead was supposed to match the design around the base of the Sumter statue though... https://ssl.panoramio.com/photo/40508994 And much of this may be a re-hash...sorry-I don't even remember what I have posted, let alone keep track of what everyone else has put up.

WR, the base is 8 sided, and connected with "Defended". This is the type of tricky simplicity that I have been getting at! Nice thoughts!

I think you guys are referring to the (call it left) side of the Sumter statue (if you face the back of the monument standing between the arms of the Jasper and the Sumter monuments), correct? I wondered about the right side of that plot of park...around the taller palm tree, and somewhere between the smaller cannon (7" Brooke rifle I believe) and the back side of the Sumter memorial. This way, you would see Fort Sumter, the design in the base of the Sumter statue, the cannons (and balls), and be standing essentially still between the direction of the two arms of the statues, and beside that tall palm. I think there are some small metal bindings (EDIT: these may be drain holes-I need to check) that hold the concrete blocks of the Sumter memorial together (in that circle). (And, it would be up against a sort of, small, wall for those thinking that may be a commonality...) Here is a Google street view of the area: https://maps.google.com/maps?q=charlest ... ,9.51&z=21 I will get on attaching or uploading and linking some images that draw this out better...I can't seem to do either here...

Sometimes big old trees have to have their large branches bound together with metal bars or cables.  Not sure if this applies here, but just thought I would mention it.

I always thought the "little dancer" had a resemblance to the shadow of the lion nose in the image. Not exact but similar with the arms extended. I honestly don't think it is because there's really no head but the general shape is the same.

i accidentally posted this in V-5, and at the moment it wont let me delete it, ill try again later just throwing it out there, unless there is a connection found for the line Edwin and Edwina named after him, in city park, the line wont work, and the sculpture, prob wasnt there in 80-81, just thought it fit the line v-6,Below the bar that binds hxxp://goo.gl/maps/0FrkF hxxp://goo.gl/maps/Di9He

So doing some thinking about the  "embedded in the sand" line...walking around WPG, it never really felt like sand, more like shell/rock (but other places, outside of the peninsula area for example, are sandy, or if you dig down about a foot or so you reach solid sand), but I wasn't sure. Taking that BP (or a possible tour guide?) would have been on soil, or ground that was mostly sand, to call it sandy soil. So to verify I started checking this out. I came across this map. I still think the casque is in this area, but I'm really not sure that the area of the peninsula (especially the tip with WPG) is considered "sandy". Is this enough to question the location based on its sand makeup? Just thinking....what does anyone think? Also, I found this map that outlines the historic district of the peninsula...depressing. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cw0909 wrote:: i accidentally posted this in V-5, and at the moment it wont let me delete it, ill try again later just throwing it out there, unless there is a connection found for the line Edwin and Edwina named after him, in city park, the line wont work, and the sculpture, prob wasnt there in 80-81, just thought it fit the line v-6,Below the bar that binds hxxp://goo.gl/maps/0FrkF hxxp://goo.gl/maps/Di9He This seems like a conglomerate of thoughts on V5, V6, I2 and I7... Who's mixed up? Me or you

not mixed up, just saw that pin sculpture,looking around CP, and thought it fit the line from V6 just throwing it out there, i still like your V5 and CP, what is 17

So bear with me, here is one of my thoughts on the solution for V6 at the Battery in Charleston. I would like to see what you guys think. Preface: this is mostly built on what previous hunters have connected, but where I have not seen with the previous ideas was the final location proposed of where the casque is buried in WPG. I also know that I don't have many visual confirmers pointed out. This is because I think that the image clues seem to point more toward Sullivan's Island (except for the possible circles being cannons or cannonballs, or cobblestone streets). I just think that V6 has very strong ties to the peninsular Charleston. I'd just like to see what everyone thought...basically the end point of this hypothesis. Also, I don’t remember the “freedom at the birth of a century” tie, but 1776, is not the beginning of a century, so who knows. It just seems like there are too many links to this area to not play around with some ideas. (I Dropboxed my document so I could get around embedding/hosting images. If anyone would rather me post the text and embed the images, I can.) Thanks hunters! https://www.dropbox.com/s/fjiyca74iq4tr ... ges%29.doc

It was so painful reading 39 pages of posts to make sure nobody had already come up with my solution. In any case, I know the location, and it IS IN CENTRAL PARK!!!! (Really just at the outskirts. Does anyone have the quote from BP where he said it was not in the park, because I would bet that the quote, like the verses, is open to interpretation and intended to mislead. If there is someone in New York who has the opportunity to dig, I will share the solution via private message if they promise to take pictures and share the credit with me in the documentary that is being made. Once we have the key, I will share the solution with the rest of the board. Andrew PM me at zahalsky@hotmail

DocZ wrote:: It was so painful reading 39 pages of posts to make sure nobody had already come up with my solution. In any case, I know the location, and it IS IN CENTRAL PARK!!!! (Really just at the outskirts. Does anyone have the quote from BP where he said it was not in the park, because I would bet that the quote, like the verses, is open to interpretation and intended to mislead. If there is someone in New York who has the opportunity to dig, I will share the solution via private message if they promise to take pictures and share the credit with me in the documentary that is being made. Once we have the key, I will share the solution with the rest of the board. Andrew PM me at zahalsky@hotmail not sure if it was Egbert that emailed BP about central park, Egbert says BP, says not in cp here viewtopic.php?p=18228&sid=2670e2e005d3dc4374d3b4bee59962a0#p18228

Unknown: Re: New York the Secret Sent: Sun Jul 20, 2014 4:41 am From: fox To: DocZ I don't believe I had that quote in an email. I remember that being said but I think I may have read it in the threads. I may be wrong though. I'm having trouble opening my email on my PC so I can't search my messages. fox Adler cw0909, In the link that you just posted, it was fox who stated in 2004 that he was the one who was told that it was not in Central Park. I tried to contact him directly for the actual quote as soon as I registered. I received this private message: So now he is saying he just heard it somewhere in the threads. But I can't find anyone else that claimed to have heard that directly from BP. I am not doubting it was said. I am doubting that what was said is as clear cut / not open to interpretation as we were led to believe.

docZ, ill look, im almost sure it was a posted email, and no im not sure who made the post it may take some time as the search function dosent work like it use to

I am even more convinced about my Verse 6 solution than about my Verse 7 solution. I gave this location first to Mr. Renner who is doing the documentary. If anyone is so convinced that they run out to this location before he does, please take photos/video and report back, so you don't screw up the documentary. Verse #6 Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here Refers to Broadway Musicals in New York City. Start someplace on Broadway By eyes of old I’ll get back to this one. It becomes clear later in the verse. Stand and listen to the birds Lots of pigeons on statues. There is a monument in the center of Columbus Circle, where Broadway intersects 8th Avenue and 59th Street. (That is not the correct place. But it is on the way, so lets go there first to work it out and see if the solution becomes more obvious.) Hear the cool, clear song of water. Oops, no fountain at the monument on Columbus Circle. But what is that right across the street at the southwest entrance to Central Park? A monument with fountains on it? Yes! Let’s cross the street and look at the USS Maine National Monument. To link it with the picture representing New York (Image #12), look in the wave just to the right of the crest and foam, I think you can see a horse's head. It could look like one of these guys at the top of the Monument: hxxp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uS8W-5IYD7Q/T ... C-001b.jpg Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century The USS Maine explosion occurred February 15, 1898. Pretty close to the turn of a century. Or May 1913 The USS Maine National Monument was dedicated May 30, 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him This is a quote from a book about someone named Edward. But it does not have to refer to THAT book or THAT Edward. Instead, it refers to the building at 2 Columbus Circle designed by the famous architect EDWARD Durrell Stone. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Columbus_Circle We are still in the right place. Or on the eighth a scene Where are we again? The intersection of Broadway, with EIGHTH Avenue and 59th Street. We are still in the right place. Now I will explain “By eyes of old”: One side of the USS Maine National Monument has a young figure representing the Pacific Ocean (discovered later), the other side has an old figure, representing the Atlantic Ocean (known to European explorers first).  The verse is indicating to go toward the side of the monument with the older figure. hxxp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-s0uoyFdHx24/T ... C-051b.jpg Where law defended Between two arms extended Now here is where it gets tricky. There are actually 3 figures on this monument who have two arms extended. In the front are a young boy named Victory and a woman named Courage. In the back is a woman named Justice. Justice is more likely to be a defender of law. Also, old Atlantic Ocean is looking backwards at Justice, not forwards towards Victory and Courage. So Justice is seen here by eyes of old. hxxp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QsoMLAftHM8/T ... aine+2.jpg Below the bar that binds There is a plaque is on the monument between the old Atlantic Ocean figure and the rear facing Justice. Several copies of this plaque were stamped out and affixed to several USS Maine memorials across the country. This is a metal bar that binds all the USS Maine monuments together. hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 111%29.JPG You can see where the plaque is positioned on the monument by doing Google Maps Street View at the coordinates:  40.768326, -73.980871 (By the way, the Google Maps Coordinates for this location is: 40.768326, -73.980871  That is pretty darned close to the coordinates of 41, 74 indicated by Image #12) Beside the long palm's shadow Justice has her right hand partially clenched and her left hand more open.  Her left/our right is the long palm.   That is the side closer to the old Atlantic Ocean figure, and to the plaque too.  So it all fits.  Alternatively, the leaf on the plaque is a long palm leaf and may be the long palm.   Either way, we want to know what is below that plaque. What about the figures with outstretched arms in front? Victory has both hands clenched.  Courage has both hands open.  The phrase long palm does not distinguish which side to dig on, if you are looking at the front figures. Embedded in the sand Now here is the clincher. Go back to the Street View on Google Maps at coordinates 40.768326, -73.980871 and look down. What do you know??  They made a sandy spot at the rear of the monument instead of having the marble sidewalks go all the way around!!!! Waits the Fair remuneration Here is where the prize is. Dig in the sand under the plaque in between Justice and the Atlantic Ocean. White house close at hand. A distractor to make you think of Washington DC. The building 262 Central Park West is also known as the White House. We are at the southwest corner of Central Park, not too far from the building. As for those who say that BP said it was not in Central Park: I am still waiting to see the exact wording of how he said it was not in Central Park. Certainly, he is good at phrasing things in a less than clear manner to obscure the true locations. The sandy patch I speak of has a low wall that separates it from Central Park proper. Maybe BP considered that area, sometimes called Merchant's Gate Plaza, to be its own entity and not really "part" of Central Park.

Doc, Do you know if Renner got this? I'd love to see where this theory goes. Good work! Also, I'm a bit unclear...can you explain your "freedom at the birth of a century" part? What was your meaning for "freedom"?

I remember the email, it did say not in central park but this is not really in central park. I also will remind everyone BP was a trickster and wasn't really helping. Good job Doc!

DocZ wrote:: I am still waiting to see the exact wording of how he said it was not in Central Park. Unknown: here is an email from BP to FRSTPRZFA which she forwarded to me concerning a possible casque location in Central Park. ----------------------------------------------------- From: To: Subject: Re: Sorry to bother you. Sent: Sunday, May 23, 2004 8:08 PM there is no treasure in central park From P9 of this thread...

I previously suggested Lafayette Park, but perhaps the whole verse could simply be about Clay St. The RLS memorial, the old Adelphi where Booth once performed, and Lafayette ("on the eighth"/Octavia "a scene where law defended"/court) are all on Clay, linked to the Emancipation Proclamation. Listen to the birds...Larkin St...? But the casque could be on yet another Clay park; say, Sue Bierman, formerly Ferry. I never understood the "or"s. This makes a bit more sense to me; different places along the street.

Unknown: Edwin and Edwina named after him This is a quote from a book about someone named Edward. But it does not have to refer to THAT book or THAT Edward. Instead, it refers to the building at 2 Columbus Circle designed by the famous architect EDWARD Durrell Stone. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Columbus_Circle We are still in the right place. I wanted to add this: "At a meeting held at the Pabst Grand Circle Hotel in New York City, on May 26, 1913, Actors' Equity was founded" hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actors%27_Equity And we know who founded the Actors Equity Association..

rookhunter wrote:: I wanted to add this: "At a meeting held at the Pabst Grand Circle Hotel in New York City, on May 26, 1913, Actors' Equity was founded" hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Actors%27_Equity And we know who founded the Actors Equity Association.. Interesting. The Pabst Grand Circle Hotel used to stand where the 2 Columbus Circle building is now. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Columbus_Circle

i cant find the convo on the Pabst Grand Circle Hotel, and i cant remember why it wasnt pursued more, maybe lack of dig area/s hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Columbus_Circle i command the search function to work!! lol

WhiteRabbit wrote:: From P9 of this thread... But there are posts from Egbert dated September 2004 where BP states he doesn't remember all the locations anymore. Could he have lost track of the specifics and misremembered how close the Maine Monument is to Central Park?

Also, compare the finger positioning of the lady in Image 12 with the fingers on the 2 outstretched arms of Justice on the Maine Memorial. Does anyone in NY have some ground penetrating Radar like W has in Houston?

Unknown: This is a quote from a book about someone named Edward. But it does not have to refer to THAT book or THAT Edward. Instead, it refers to the building at 2 Columbus Circle designed by the famous architect EDWARD Durrell Stone. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Columbus_Circle We are still in the right place. Sorry, I disagree. Let me remind everyone about this passage from "Abroad in America": There are two very, very significant things about this passage. First, their names appear here in the context of being named after someone (" Edwin and Edwina named after him "). Second, this is the same book , not coincidentally, where the Sarmiento quote can be found: The idea that Edwin and Edwina can refer to anything else just boggles the mind.

There is no doubt about that one.

forest_blight wrote:: Sorry, I disagree. Let me remind everyone about this passage from "Abroad in America": There are two very, very significant things about this passage. First, their names appear here in the context of being named after someone (" Edwin and Edwina named after him "). Second, this is the same book , not coincidentally, where the Sarmiento quote can be found: The idea that Edwin and Edwina can refer to anything else just boggles the mind. The idea that in 1982 a person was supposed to find that quote in an obscure book boggles my mind. Edwin Booth (who was significant to NYC history) could easily be found in any encyclopedia.

Unknown: The idea that in 1982 a person was supposed to find that quote in an obscure book boggles my mind. Edwin Booth (who was significant to NYC history) could easily be found in any encyclopedia. I hear you, rook. But the Sarmiento quote is similarly obscure. And yet, of the 3 or 4 English translations that I found for that passage, the one in "Abroad in America" comes the closest. I was so excited after finding it that I read the entire book, and finding the reference to Edwin and Edwina nailed it for me. I am 100% certain BP had this book on his desk when he penned both of those verses.

I agree. It is an obscure book to just have lying on your bookshelf, sure. But it just looks like too much of a coincidence to be coincidence. There's little to no doubt that this is the source material for these two verses (at least), but it's not to say that the hunters are to figure out a city/location from this book. Just another line that could or could not be used to confirm a city or location. Especially with verse 6 using the "or" lines...Or, (see what I did there-"or"? ) maybe these two verses were some of the harder ones that were created.

I agree - he published books for a living, and he obviously had that one on hand. It would be interesting to see if that book is still in his wife's possession, and if so, if it has highlights or bookmarks (in addition to other books). Don't forget the Herman Melville quote "strongest tower of delight" from Pierre - which not only gave us Hermann Park, but also gave us the name of a camel in the park. BP was big on books, as should be expected.

I thought it was only a rumor that the llamas were named Snowflake and Pierre -- Wilhouse?

I agree that he got these and other quotes from book, my only disagreement is that they were meant to be clues. But who knows maybe that's why they've never been solved. I hope time will tell.

I wonder if this is connected to Blyden in some way, William Richard Tolbert, Jr. (May 13, 1913 – April 12, 1980) was the 20th President of Liberia from 1971 until 1980, when he was killed in a coup d'état. Someone who was born in May 1913 and had a significant presence in the media at a time just preceding the Secret. He was the President of a country named Liberia, which may be a good candidate for why Preiss used the word "freedom" in the preceding line. Freedom at the birth of a century = In Liberia, someone born in the 20th century Or May 1913 = Liberia's 20th president Tobert I bring this to our attention because it has to do with a President and I believe the line "White house close at hand" has to do with the position of Vice President, which suits the Charleston Lighthouse keeper named Andrew Johnson. April 15, 1873: "Last Tuesday, there occurred at the Cape Romain light-house station a tragedy, which is terrible in its details. It is one of those horrible mysteries that baffle all attempts at solution. The facts of the case, as far as they can be gathered, are as follows: Captain Andrew Johnson is the keeper of the light-house at Cape Romain, where he resided with his wife. On the evening of the 8th instant, about 5 o'clock, Captain Johnson went up to the light-house to light and trim the lamp for the night. He left his wife in the house, which is in sight of the light-house, and in the yard of which she was seen by him up to 6 o'clock, when it became too dark to distinguish objects. At about half-past 8 o'clock in the evening, Julius L. Lee, one of the assistant keepers, went to the light-house to relieved Caption Johnson. In a few moments, Lee went out on the piazza of the station, and saw Captain Johnson running towards the dwelling of the assistants, crying out that his wife was dead. The body of Mrs. Johnson was found lying in the center of the floor, clad in night clothes, and surrounded by a pool of blood. A revolver belonging to her husband was lying by her side, but its chambers were not discharged. The deadly instrument with which the terrible deed had been committed was a razor, which her throat had been cut from ear to ear. There had evidently been an attempt to use the pistol, which was not successful. About the room was lying a lot of wearing apparel of the unfortunate victim and some of her husbands jewelry. All of her own jewelry, however, was missing, as was a lot of money which she had in her possession at the time of her death. The door leading from the room to the piazza, which fastened on the inside, was open, and an attempt had evidently been made to pass out of it. In the garden below, a pair of gold spectacles belonging to the deceased were found. Previous to the tragedy, Mrs. Johnson had called upon her neighbor, Mrs. Lee, and appeared to be in good health and cheerful spirits. Captain Johnson states that she had once told him that she had on a previous occasion attempted to take her own life, and that on several occasions she had talked and acted as if she was a little 'flighty.' The deceased was a native of Sweden, but had lived in this country for twenty-two years. At the time of her death, she was fifty-three years old. [Charleston News." (The Daily Phoenix)

Those who aren't ignoring me are probably wondering what I'm talking about. The two lines to "harken" are about a President. Effectively "Listening to the President." The next line is about successors and Blyden's children having his name is a good solid example for what we're intended to discover; a compound idea to read "figure out a President who has a successor." We have African themed Tolbert succeeded by Doe to set us up for an American counterpart with Lincoln succeeded by Johnson.

Of all the romance retold = of the types of mating calls that birds do (drumming) Men of tales and tunes = RLS type hints of an island treasure, "tunes" supports drum theme Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water = rain drops percussion Harken to the words: = listen to a leader Freedom at the birth of a century = consider the freeing of slaves Or May 1913 = birth of 20th President of Liberia, Tolbert, grandson of freeslave parents emmigrated from S.C. in 1878 Edwin and Edwina named after him = Blyden's children names as example of a type of succession Or on the eighth a scene = S.C. is the 8th state and the scene is set at Sumter during an act of succession from the Union Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand. = the role of Vice President Im trying to highlight the primary factors and how they come together. The painting brings the other necessary elements together. Once we consider the idea of a drum from the bird reference, and the idea of an island from RLS, then we encounter parts that identify the beginning of the Civil War and resulting exodus of free slaves to Liberia. Theres a strong reference to drumming in the African tribal theme alone. (See Fair Peoples Emigration for clues). We then take the references of the President and Vice President to relate our President Lincoln, the cruel and bold event of his assassination during a musical story (tales and tunes), to the succession of power to his VP Andrew Johnson. What is required is identifying the difficult to access information about the history of the Keeper at Cape Romain also named Andrew Johnson.

So I just read your whole post but I am not clear on where you are saying it leads to. Charleston? Fort Sumter or one of the outer islands? or somewhere else?

it leads to the water cistern at the Lighthouse for the keeper named Andrew Johnson stationed in Cape Romaina remote island in the Charleston vicinity. The story about hidden treasure being buried on that island is a potential highlight. Book sources or word of mouth sources remain to be proven in terms of how obscure or accessible this reference may be. Im curious about the NY Times article on Tolbert April 12th/13th of 1980. Still waiting on my subscription.

Unknown: The 66-year-old slain President was a decendant of freed American slaves who founded the republic in 1847. Though only 5 percent of the population, these "freed- men" have long dominated politics and commerce, and American cultural influ- ence is evident." Unknown: The facts of the case, as far as they can be gathered, are as follows: Captain Andrew Johnson is the keeper of the light-house at Cape Romain, where he resided with his wife. On the evening of the 8th instant, about 5 o'clock, Captain Johnson went up to the light-house to light and trim the lamp for the night. After reading the front page NYT news article, of which I presumed Preiss would've had easy access to and might say something about Tolbert that related to freed slaves from the US or his birth, I find it somewhat conclusive where it says, Is it succinct to say the founding of a republic is a "birth" of that government? That the birth date of this President is May13, 1913 certainly raises an eyebrow. He is descended from S.C. freed slaves. On the 8th a scene, I previously thought applied to S.C. being the 8th state, but then I noticed the news excerpt about S.C. Lighthouse Keeper, Captain Andrew Johnson who killed his wife, Is it succinct to say the event of a murder is a "scene"? I presume this story was published in other places, or at least a citation in a book or historic pamphlet having to do with Lighthouse history, such as Keepers of the Lights , by Hans Christian Adamson in 1955. I don't know how that compares to the litmus test of accessibility that would've been responsible for Abroad in America in 1976. The guiding assumption for anything historic as far as using Google to produce these results is that the source must've been available somewhere and sustained in some form that it was available for data-entry. Either that or someone is making shit up...

I have found "the bar that binds". Here is a quote from Don Quixote, in a passage where he is helping to dislodge a boat that is stuck on a sand bar: "Well spoken, child. My knowledge of books is of their contents, not the ink and leather of which they are formed. But that book which you hold has more than passing interest for it may be about the unconquered knight of whom I have heard so much and read so little. Now let me tell you how your boat shall be released from the bar that binds." Since this quote refers to a ship stuck on sand bar, and the front of the USS Maine Monument is the prow of a ship and the back is in sand, I think this is further proof that the USS Maine Monument is the place to be. We have already established that Byron Preiss was well versed in literature and liked to use literary references to describe places. So it is even more probable that finding this quote in a piece of literature has significance, rather than my initial interpretation that it referred to the plaque on the monument "binding" this monument to other USS Maine monuments. So my revised solution to Verse #6 looks like this: Verse #6 Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here Refers to Broadway Musicals in New York City. Start someplace on Broadway By eyes of old I’ll get back to this one. It becomes clear later in the verse. Stand and listen to the birds Lots of pigeons on statues. There is a monument in the center of Columbus Circle, where Broadway intersects 8th Avenue and 59th Street. (That is not the correct place. But it is on the way, so lets go there first to work it out and see if the solution becomes more obvious.) Hear the cool, clear song of water. Oops, no fountain at the monument on Columbus Circle. But what is that right across the street at the southwest entrance to Central Park? A monument with fountains on it? Yes! Let’s cross the street and look at the USS Maine National Monument. To link it with the picture representing New York (Image #12), look in the wave just to the right of the crest and foam, I think you can see a horse's head. It could look like one of these guys at the top of the Monument: hxxp://3.bp.blogspot.com/-uS8W-5IYD7Q/T ... C-001b.jpg Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century The USS Maine explosion occurred February 15, 1898. Pretty close to the turn of a century. Another solution I am still working on: There is a book of old photographs from the early 1900's by William Henry Jackson called "The Birth of a Century" It was published in 1994 (after The Secret was written), but I need to track down the book and see if one of the pictures in it was also captioned as "The Birth of a Century," from which the book then derived its name. If so, that photograph may hold a clue. Or May 1913 The USS Maine National Monument was dedicated May 30, 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him This is a quote from the book "Abroad in America" about someone named Edward Blyden. But I think BP uses literary references to get you to a meaning - in this case, we are talking about someone named Edward - without requiring that the meaning be exactly the same as the meaning of the original quote. (For example, the Herman Melville quote in the Houston verse to get you to Hermann Park) So in this case, the quote refers to the building at 2 Columbus Circle designed by the famous architect EDWARD Durrell Stone. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2_Columbus_Circle We are still in the right place. Or on the eighth a scene Where are we again? The intersection of Broadway, with EIGHTH Avenue and 59th Street. We are still in the right place. Now I will explain “By eyes of old”: One side of the USS Maine National Monument has a young figure representing the Pacific Ocean (discovered later), the other side has an old figure, representing the Atlantic Ocean (known to European explorers first). The verse is indicating to go toward the side of the monument with the older figure. hxxp://2.bp.blogspot.com/-s0uoyFdHx24/T ... C-051b.jpg Where law defended Between two arms extended Now here is where it gets tricky. There are actually 3 figures on this monument who have two arms extended. In the front are a young boy named Victory and a woman named Courage. In the back is a woman named Justice. Justice is more likely to be a defender of law. Also, old Atlantic Ocean is looking backwards at Justice, not forwards towards Victory and Courage. So Justice is seen here by eyes of old. hxxp://4.bp.blogspot.com/-QsoMLAftHM8/T ... aine+2.jpg Below the bar that binds NEW SOLUTION: Here is a quote from Don Quixote, in a passage where he is helping to dislodge a boat that is stuck on a sand bar: "Well spoken, child. My knowledge of books is of their contents, not the ink and leather of which they are formed. But that book which you hold has more than passing interest for it may be about the unconquered knight of whom I have heard so much and read so little. Now let me tell you how your boat shall be released from the bar that binds." We have already established that Byron Preiss was well versed in literature and liked to use literary references to describe places. Since this quote refers to a ship stuck on sand bar, and the front of the USS Maine Monument is the prow of a ship and the back is in sand (demonstrated later in this solution), I think this is further proof that the USS Maine Monument is the place to be. OLD SOLUTION: There is a plaque is on the monument between the old Atlantic Ocean figure and the rear facing Justice. Several copies of this plaque were stamped out and affixed to several USS Maine memorials across the country. This is a metal bar that binds all the USS Maine monuments together. hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... 111%29.JPG You can see where the plaque is positioned on the monument by doing Google Maps Street View at the coordinates: 40.768326, -73.980871 (By the way, the Google Maps Coordinates for this location is: 40.768326, -73.980871 That is pretty darned close to the coordinates of 41, 74 indicated by Image #12) Beside the long palm's shadow Justice has her right hand partially clenched and her left hand more open. Her left/our right is the long palm. That is the side closer to the old Atlantic Ocean figure, and to the plaque too. So it all fits. Alternatively, the leaf on the plaque is a long palm leaf and may be the long palm. Either way, we want to know what is below that plaque. What about the figures with outstretched arms in front? Victory has both hands clenched. Courage has both hands open. The phrase long palm does not distinguish which side to dig on, if you are looking at the front figures. Embedded in the sand Now here is the clincher. Go back to the Street View on Google Maps at coordinates 40.768326, -73.980871 and look down. What do you know?? They made a sandy spot at the rear of the monument instead of having the marble sidewalks go all the way around!!!! So the ship is on a sand bar that binds AND the treasure is embedded in the sand. It all fits. Waits the Fair remuneration Here is where the prize is. Dig in the sand behind the USS Maine Monument. Possible locations are under the plaque in between Justice and the Atlantic Ocean, or in between the 2 outstretched hands of Justice. White house close at hand. A distractor to make you think of Washington DC. The building 262 Central Park West is also known as the White House. We are at the southwest corner of Central Park, not too far from the building. And again for the Nay-Sayers: The monument is technically at Merchant's Gate, just outside Central Park. It is not IN Central Park, so BP's email that the treasure is not in Central Park does not disprove this location.

The passage you quote appears to be from a piece of fan fiction called "Sailing Ships," not from Don Quixote .

Oops. I thought that site was quoting a passage from the book. I did not realize it was new fan-fiction that was not part of the book.

Image 12 = Verse 6 = USS Maine Memorial at Merchant's gate. I have identified 4 more visual clues in the picture and I am absolutely certain. Plus, the quote in my post above may not be from Don Quixote, but I still think "bar that binds" refers to a sand bar binding a ship. My cousin is going to dig for me once she applies to the New York Parks department for the appropriate "Research Permit" to dig and "Metal Detector Permit" for the ground penetrating radar I will hire, and "Film and Photography Permit" so she can film it for the documentary. I'll fill you all in once the casque is out of the ground.

So I know this discussion has moved to NYC, but I wanted to share something I found, and see what anyone thought. Most of my current research was started with jstarr's theory in Washington Square (in Charleston). One of the lines in V6...I was never completely sold on anything that clicked for "freedom at the birth of a century", especially here in Charleston. I was researching Blyden, and came upon Denmark Vesey. From Wikipedia: "Denmark Vesey, originally Telemaque,[citation needed] (1767 – July 2, 1822) was an African-American man who was most famous for planning a slave rebellion in the United States in 1822. He was enslaved in South Carolina. After purchasing his freedom, he planned an extensive slave rebellion. Word of the plans was leaked, and authorities arrested the plot's leaders at Charleston, South Carolina, before the uprising could begin. Vesey and others were convicted and executed. Many antislavery activists came to regard Vesey as a hero. During the American Civil War, abolitionist Frederick Douglass used Vesey's name as a battle cry[clarification needed] to rally African-American regiments, especially the 54th Massachusetts Volunteer Infantry.[citation needed] Although it was almost certainly not Vesey's actual home,[1] the Denmark Vesey House at Charleston was named a National Historic Landmark in 1976." In a paper about Blyden, Vesey was compared to Blyden, and this was listed: "By January 1800 Denmark had purchased his freedom for $600 from a $1,500 prize in the East Bay Lottery and had become a carpenter. Joining a community of about 1,000 free Blacks that was located in an area with a much larger slaveholding population, Denmark Vesey's quasi-free experience of everyday life in Charleston was presumably similar to that of other so-called free Blacks." To me, this was a HEAVY Charleston reference, WITH the cultural theme, AND he literally became free in January of 1800. I'm going to go to several buildings downtown as soon as I get the chance to see if there is (or was) any kind of Vesey references. I've been talking to someone at either the public library or the CoC about references such as these, and he seemed to think there was a Vesey reference in city hall, so this would put it right on Washington Square. What do you guys think?

I really like the Washington Square area for this puzzle, so I can definitely see it. It doesn't need to be a huge thing, just a plaque or something. The one thing I don't match it with is the likely USS Maine reference. The Battery is nowhere near Washington Sq, at least for those two lines to be connected.

May 1st 1913 - Longacre Theater opens at 220 W 48th St NYC 26th - US Actors' Equity Association forms (NYC) I still believe this verse is referring to Booth the actor. Of all the romance retold Verses referring to Plays Men of tales and tunes Edwin Booth came from a family of actors. His father was also a Shakespearean actor, as were his two brothers, John Wilkes Booth and Junius Booth, Jr. Edwin appeared with his brothers in several performances, but neither of his brothers achieved the level of success in acting that Edwin did. His brother, John Wilkes Booth, did achieve notoriety that surpassed Edwin's. While Edwin himself was a supporter of President Abraham Lincoln, his brother John was an extreme secessionist. This drove a wedge between the brothers, and Edwin was as shocked and outraged as the rest of the country when his brother, John Wilkes, shot President Lincoln on April 14th, 1865. Ironically, Edwin Booth had actually saved the life of, or at least prevented serious injury to, Lincoln's eldest son, Robert Todd Lincoln the previous year. As Lincoln and Booth were waiting at a train platform to buy sleeping cars, the train began to move and Lincoln lost his footing. According to Robert Lincoln, Edwin Booth grabbed him by the collar and pulled him back to his feet. Lincoln recognized the famous actor and thanked him for his efforts, and Lincoln recalled the incident several times in writing and in conversation, although Booth did not know the name of the man he had saved until years later. It was less than a year after this event that Booth's brother took the life of Lincoln's father.

Interesting dellucc. I like the idea of plays, performances, stages, etc to fulfill those lines. And speaking of NY, I think the Vesey reference I was talking about above was not added into City Hall (Charleston) until fairly recently. The woman I spoke with said the 90s or early 2000s...I can't remember. Kind of a bust there.

"Beside the long palm's shadow." I have been thinking about this. Many people on this thread are just assuming that this refers to a tall palm tree. But, if that was the case, why not say "Beside the tall palm's shadow"? You would describe a tree as tall, not long. The leaves can be described as long, but the phrase is not describing the leaf. This could be a case of BP just trying to be poetic, but it doesn't seem to jibe with how the other verses describe things. I have come up with a few alternate possibilities. 1. There are different types of hands. A "long palm" is a type of hand. hxxp://elementsofmorphology.nih.gov/index.cgi?tid=7515f487e834719e However, I do not see BP describing a person's hand in telling someone where to dig. First, a long hand or a short hand will probably cast the same shadow. Also, if we are talking about a statue, the hand will probably be too high up to tell what type it is. A better description would be "left" or "right" palm. I know some people here are trying to say that this refers perhaps to an open palm as opposed to a closed hand. But, then it would be described as open or closed, not long. So, I don't think this refers to a statue's hand at all. 2. There is a type of steel building joint called a "long palm" barrel lug. hxxp://www.carroll.com.au/long-palm-long-barrel-lug-lplb16-6w.html If it is big enough, this could cast a shadow. However, I cannot imagine it being big enough to do so. 3. If someone's name was "Long," and they had a palm tree on their property, that would be the Long Palm. Perhaps there is someone famous, and we just have to find the right spot (in Charleston, if you believe, as I do, that this verse is for Charleston) to locate this property. 4. A crazy possibility, but there was actually someone who lived in Charleston whose name was Long Palm. I found him, or at least I found Long, Palm: hxxp://records.ancestry.com/palm_c_long_records.ashx?pid=598746 and hxxp://us-census.org/pub/usgenweb/census/sc/oconee/1910/_indx-l.txt Now, if there is an actual statue or monument somewhere with his name on it, that would be a possibility. So, there you have it. The "long palm" clue really bothers me in this Verse. I just do not think it means a tall palm tree.

Egbert wrote:: "Beside the long palm's shadow." I have been thinking about this. Many people on this thread are just assuming that this refers to a tall palm tree. But, if that was the case, why not say "Beside the tall palm's shadow"? You would describe a tree as tall, not long. The leaves can be described as long, but the phrase is not describing the leaf. This could be a case of BP just trying to be poetic, but it doesn't seem to jibe with how the other verses describe things. I have come up with a few alternate possibilities. 1. There are different types of hands. A "long palm" is a type of hand. hxxp://elementsofmorphology.nih.gov/index.cgi?tid=7515f487e834719e However, I do not see BP describing a person's hand in telling someone where to dig. First, a long hand or a short hand will probably cast the same shadow. Also, if we are talking about a statue, the hand will probably be too high up to tell what type it is. A better description would be "left" or "right" palm. I know some people here are trying to say that this refers perhaps to an open palm as opposed to a closed hand. But, then it would be described as open or closed, not long. So, I don't think this refers to a statue's hand at all. 2. There is a type of steel building joint called a "long palm" barrel lug. hxxp://www.carroll.com.au/long-palm-long-barrel-lug-lplb16-6w.html If it is big enough, this could cast a shadow. However, I cannot imagine it being big enough to do so. 3. If someone's name was "Long," and they had a palm tree on their property, that would be the Long Palm. Perhaps there is someone famous, and we just have to find the right spot (in Charleston, if you believe, as I do, that this verse is for Charleston) to locate this property. 4. A crazy possibility, but there was actually someone who lived in Charleston whose name was Long Palm. I found him, or at least I found Long, Palm: hxxp://records.ancestry.com/palm_c_long_records.ashx?pid=598746 and hxxp://us-census.org/pub/usgenweb/census/sc/oconee/1910/_indx-l.txt Now, if there is an actual statue or monument somewhere with his name on it, that would be a possibility. So, there you have it. The "long palm" clue really bothers me in this Verse. I just do not think it means a tall palm tree. Really interesting thoughts, Egbert. Thanks! I agree that the clue is a little perplexing. What if is the palm's shadow that is long, and not the palm itself?

I agree with Hirudiniforme that another possibility is that the word "long" modifies "shadow" rather than "palm." As in "the long shadow cast by the palm." It is easier to understand a shadow being long than a palm being long. Of course, this line of reasoning doesn't get us anywhere. Shadows move around a lot over the course of the day and according to the time of year, and (unlike in Masquerade) there is no other information about looking for where a shadow falls at a particular time of day or year. It doesn't have to refer to a statue or sculpture. It could refer to a named building (e.g., Long Hall) or a motel sign (e.g., The Palmtree Motel) (I made those up). There is a "long" island known as the Isle of Palms just east of Charleston, and a community known as "Long Point" east of town. There is also a business called "Ann Long Fine Art" on Broad St. in downtown Charleston, close to Washington Square. My point is, there are lots of options for what "Long" and "Palm" might refer to.

forest_blight wrote:: I agree with Hirudiniforme that another possibility is that the word "long" modifies "shadow" rather than "palm." As in "the long shadow cast by the palm." It is easier to understand a shadow being long than a palm being long. Of course, this line of reasoning doesn't get us anywhere. Shadows move around a lot over the course of the day and according to the time of year, and (unlike in Masquerade) there is no other information about looking for where a shadow falls at a particular time of day or year. This is true, but isn't a shadow ALWAYS longest at the beginning and end of the day? If the sun travels east and west, wouldn't the longest shadow have to point in one of those directions? I do agree that this likely doesn't get us anywhere. What's funny is that Egbert's suggestion about the attachment piece being called a long palm... well, there is one of those right where I am trying to dig.

tjgrey, your discovery of the Denmark Vesey reference as "freedom at the birth of a century" is possibly one of the best finds in the last couple years.

erexere wrote:: tjgrey, your discovery of the Denmark Vesey reference as "freedom at the birth of a century" is possibly one of the best finds in the last couple years. Thanks man-but of the references I found to him (and other related things), none were there when BP would have been... Slowly ruling out parks/areas...seems White Point is still a standing contender...

I think theres a wide spectrum of options for how to approach this puzzle. Hoping for a statue or a plaque, or the historic residence of Vesey are just a few. As you have investigated, those options dont seem to work. What then is the purpose of the reference? Before I go into some elaborate madness, I want to believe the Vesey connection works with the Treasure Island introduction. Maybe slaves attaining freedom is analogous to pirates and pardons?

Possibly. Ok, rolling with that, the first place in my mind is the Stede Bonnet marker on the Battery. I thought he was pardoned once before being executed too...maybe it was an escape...?

What about Blackbeard?

Sure. Blackbeard was awesome and all but he was all up and down the coastline. I'm not sure of any memorials dedicated to him off of the top of my head. He did a harbor blockade of sorts for medicine but that's beside the point. Too bad BP didn't hide one out on Ocracoke(?)....THERE would be your island treasure!

Hmm... Captain Charles Johnson is supposedly the best resource on Blackbeard.

I must again attempt making a case for this verse and image 2 both having reference to Odysseus. First section of the Odyssey is called the Telemachy for its principal character Telemachus. Being a dedicated Philhellene, Byron surely connected this character with Denmark Vesey who was formerly named Telemaque. The lepidoptera woman is recognized as a Polyphemus type moth. Polyphemus was the cyclops blinded by Odysseus.

Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old The opening of the Odyssey, Sing to me of the man, Muse, the man of twists and turns driven time and again off course, once he had plundered the hallowed heights of Troy. Many cities of men he saw and learned their minds, many pains he suffered, heartsick on the open sea, fighting to save his life and bring his comrades home. But he could not save them from disaster, hard as he strove— the recklessness of their own ways destroyed them all, the blind fools, they devoured the cattle of the Sun and the Sungod blotted out the day of their return. Launch out on his story, Muse, daughter of Zeus, start from where you will—sing for our time too. A slave named Telemaque won a $1500 city lottery and bought his freedom in November of 1799. He assumed a new name: Denmark Vesey. Over the next 22 years he encouraged slaves to rise up against their masters and as a result of the slave revolt in 1822 a large scale repatriation of freed slaves left SC for a settlement in Africa, later founded in 1847 as the Republic of Liberia. Edward Wilmot Blyden lived and taught in Liberia from 1851 to around 1887. Blyden ran for the office of President in Liberia in 1885 but lost to Hailey Johnson. Shortly after the loss he traveled and according to Abroad in America he arrived in Charleston where the locals were excited to hear news of many relatives who a dozen or more years prior had won their freedom and repatriated to Liberia. Blyden had two children, Edwin and Edwina. On May 13th, 1913, William Tolbert Jr. Was born. His grandparents were among those who originally emigrated from SC in the 1822. Tolbert later became president of Liberia. He was killed in a coup d'etat in 1980 by his his successor Samuel Doe. This sounds like a dry summary of history, but it supplies quite a bit of context relating to slavery in SC and the outcome. We tend to jump to the Civil War as the apex of the topic and forget about the efforts of the slaves themselves and repatriation solution so they could be truly free and govern themselves in the country of their cultural origin. Let me now address the moth wings in image 2. Polyphemus is the moth type. Polyphemus was the name of the cyclops blinded by Odysseus. Remember the name of that slave who gained freedom at the turn of the century? The first four books of the Odyssey are known as the Telemachy as they involve Telemachus, son of Odysseus, as he asserts himself in dealing with the suitors of his mother Penelope staves off remarriage until Odysseus' return from Calypso's island. I think this connection of Telemaque (Vesey) to Telemachus in the Odyssey is important in characterizing the goal of landing on the distant shores of Cape Romain and finding the lighthouse which had its light or "seeing eye" removed like that of the Cyclops. I also think the goal of finding a "drum" of some kind is an incredibly coincidental homage to the Goddess Calypso, which is known well to be the music from the steel drum's from Trinidad and Tobago. At least that's well known to me, since that's where my father is from. This leads me to wonder if the woman depicted in the painting is suppose to be either Calypso or Penelope. On one hand, the women of Trinidad and Tobago would dress up in grand style for Carnival, wearing bikini's and lots of bird feathers. I can't recall if there was a preference for a specific bird feather, but I'm thinking of peacocks. There was a 70's issue National Geographic that had a nice piece on Carnival in Trinidad, but I don't have it anymore. On the other hand, I learned that Penelope is typically depicted in art with her legs crossed as an important symbol of her remaining faithful to her husband Odysseus. The winged lady has her legs crossed. Well, I'm tired, and I know all that I'm saying will be perceived as madness no matter if I'm wrong or right.

"Blyden had two children, Edwin and Edwina." A small point: My reading of the passage is that the twins Edwin and Edwina were not Blyden's children -- they were simply named for him (according to Abroad in America ).

Thanks for the correction! I have a lot of stuff floating in my brain. Twin babies having the names Edwin and Edwina was what originally gave me the idea that fraternal twins is analogous to the twin lighthouses not looking the same. Something I just realized is that Blyden died in 1912. May 1913 follows shortly after that.

tjgrey's note about Denmark Vesey slipped under the radar for me, so thanks erexere for bringing it back to the fore. This is indeed exciting. There may be something here. Considering the "Vesey House" at 56 Bull St., some websites say explicitly that there is no plaque on the house, but one notes "Today he's marked only by a plaque on what may have been his house and by two paintings based on artists' conceptions of what he may have looked like." Another notes "the small memorial in Charleston is 'protected against vandalism by heavy iron gates.'" What memorial? Where?? Nearby, are there two arms, a bar that binds, a long palm, and a white house by any chance? A statue was erected to Vesey somewhere in Hampton Park in 2014. Maybe it's that one? Despite its dubious connection to Denmark Vesey, the "Denmark Vesey House" at 56 Bull St. was added to the National Register in 1976, presumably with some sort of plaque or marker. The house is a narrow rental property now, and probably always has been. Google street view's very clear images do not show any plaques or markers. But I think one existed. I'm following a lead and will report back if I hear anything. In the meantime, see: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denmark_Vesey_House hxxp://www.nationalregister.sc.gov/char ... 710094.pdf hxxp://theclio.com/web/entry?id=9909

Nod. I thought the 56 Bull might lead somewhere. Good luck.

I've never been to the Vesey house, but from what I understand, it didn't have much dedicated to him. Got a guy in the history archive... "And 56 Bull Street has a plaque on it with the erroneous information that it was Denmark Vesey’s house. Because of the way the system works, the plaque can’t be removed from the house, even though people know the information is erroneous. That is the site of where he lived in 1822, but not the structure." And the monument in Hampton Park is enticing, but yes, forest, it was installed in 2014 I believe. I always liked Hampton Park and that area too. Hampton HAD some very very interesting statues and monuments around the time of the Expo sometime after 1900. Sunken garden, a duck pond ("stand and listen to the birds...hear the cool, clear song of water"), plenty of arches in buildings (middle of the mask), and even a statue of some girl or kid on a ball with their arms folded like wings. The zoo later on had a lion, there is a cottage or "Women's house" that is white too. I just don't know what was all there around 1975-1985...There are/were daisies I believe at one point, and the kicker? The only park I've found a pine-like tree in downtown. (Sullivan's Island does have some.) If I could post an image in here, or the damn Tapatalk app would get fixed, I would add a bunch.

tjgrey - there may have been a plaque on the house at one time, but it is gone now. The accuracy of the information on the plaque is beside the point, for our purposes -- all that matters is that it would have been visible right on the sidewalk in 1981, and that Preiss could see it. I'm dying to know what was on it.

I've been reading for a little while now. Very interesting ideas. I enjoy reading them... Hampton park has stuck out to me the most. All of the history from the exposition is mind boggling. I am in the location, and can always help out with taking current pictures and checking out ideas... I know tj is also here, but just offering as well. I'll keep reading and post my interpretation soon.

forest- You want to know what the plaque says (currently)? If I'm down there this afternoon, I'll swing by there and see if I can see anything. If there is, I'll get a picture for you. Do you think it's that right in the middle of the porch? hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... ouse_3.jpg

I suppose that could be it. If it is the plaque, and if you don't mind, then sure -- I'd love to see a picture. But then there's this Twitter exchange: https://twitter.com/drhonor/status/303587964657750016 ...which makes me think the plaque won't be right out in the open if it's still there at all.

Last line analysis: White house close at hand. = white [light] house near and its narrow and vertical position is similar to a person raising their hand like someone with a question or roll call.

Also, I'm kicking around the idea that "white house" has potential in a context of slavery.

Could you elaborate on what you mean by connecting 'white house' to something simply slavery related?

This is a test reply. I've tried posting twice now, but have not been able to. Hopefully this works...

How do i become a verified poster? please help

figbear wrote:: Could you elaborate on what you mean by connecting 'white house' to something simply slavery related? I didn't have a specific place in mind when I made this note. I'm still interested in following the Denmark Vesey line of thinking.

Image references.. I'm struggling to find where I found this image, but iirc it was a prison in the location Hampton park is now that housed union soldiers. hxxp://i.imgur.com/hphyt1m.jpg hxxp://i.imgur.com/ICC7sEl.jpg This is what I see in the image. The top of the column above the oval could be the black with white triangles, and pointed sides. If you were looking at the building from a corner, and slightly upwards. Also, the pear in Image 2 could represent a bradford pear tree. The flower below it is not to far from a bradford pear flower. After reading about these trees though, they don't seem to survive typically over a few decades so... Lastly, the mark on the tigers face directly right of the tiger's right eye resembles a symbol from the side of fort sumter. You can see it here on the wall (left side) -- the object is mirrored. hxxp://i.imgur.com/Xg3Xp1f.png

I continue to ponder the interconnectedness of this verse. Its visual counterpart is significantly African themed and makes use of the shape of Fort Sumter in the form of a pendant, possibly a military ID tag, which might indicate the puzzle has more than an incedental bearing on the subjects of slavery and the American Civil War. I think a few or more big ideas must concern us in solving this. We know Charleston and Drum Island we are strongly indicated by a visual reference. South Carolina was the 1st state to secede from the Union. I think that role is very significant from a word identification angle. I've gone on about this before , but I dont recall any discussion taking place. The Edwin and Edwina named after him seems like a good indication of "succession", which is a different word but sounds very much like "secession". I sense that BP has challenged us to know the difference and most of us probably do, so what can we do with it? I found some relevance in "stand" and listen to the birds. A sound some birds make especially in mating calls ("romance retold") is known as drumming. Drums also have stands. Drums are a significant cultural piece of African history. Anuther word for drumming is "percussion" and words commonly used to describe the activity of drumming are "session" or "jam". I wonder if a reason for a single fruit in the image is to support a jam or fruit based spread hint. The diamond in the image is also of interest because it bears a particular type of cut known as a "cushion". I thought "percussion" sounds like "per-cushion". Anyway, i think there's something fun going on with words leading to the concept of a drum. Drums have a simple anatomy: the shell/body/barrel and the head/batter. Typical names or types of drums are snare, trap, bass. I also think theres something relating to bright harvest from the LotJ. This being cotton. Big puffy white balls of cotton, which interestingly is ginned (also a word having the meaning: to trap or snare), and may be processed into rolls known as cotton batting. Does anyone else here find any of these word associations interesting? Is it conceivable BP worked to tie major themes in SC together such that they harmonized with his concept for the Fair Folk of Africa?

I'm sure it doesn't matter at this point in the search, but "Freedom at the birth of a century" brought to mind the Second Boer War, which was also called the "Freedom War" and fought from 1899-1902 in South Africa. Not sure how this is at all relevant, however.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Earthquake bolts are bars that bind. Below the bar that binds I like the bolt idea. Not just earthquake bolts, but any old bolt, on a post/fence/tree or something.

Freedom at the birth of a century Hasnt this line always been bothersome? The timeline of American history doesnt have any major transitions that fit well like the example of Lincoln's abolishment of slavery in 1865. Birth of a century would seem to apply best to a year like 1801, the first year of a new century. (or 1800, however you technically look at first year after the zero). Denmark Vesey seemed like a good candidate for this line, given he stopped being a slave in 1799 and lived in Charleston where this verse is favored, but this is just one person gaining their freedom. While looking for a better cultural example of freedom around that same time I discovered the people of the island of Hispaniola, early Haiti and Dominican Republic were freed in 1801 by a successful slave revolt and the drafting of a constitution abolishing slavery. The interesting character at the head of this coup d'etat was Toussaint Louverture. Eventually captured by Napoleon's men, he famously warned his captors that the rebels would not repeat his mistake: "In overthrowing me you have cut down in Saint Domingue only the trunk of the tree of liberty; it will spring up again from the roots, for they are numerous and they are deep." This quote somewhat syncs with the African tree spirit stories where those fair folk feared their tree being cut down and harvested for their wood. From the perspective of these fair folk and even Denmark Vesey, the happenings in the distant Caribbean might be an inspiration. Unfortunately Vesey's revolt in 1822 failed, but the drums played on.

Edwin and Edwina named after him What's the verdict and why? A) Edwin Booth B) Edwin Harleston C) Edward Blyden

Unknown: What's the verdict and why? I choose C. Because harpsicords are not harps.

erexere wrote:: Edwin and Edwina named after him What's the verdict and why? A) Edwin Booth B) Edwin Harleston C) Edward Blyden A wise man, whom I've kicked in the balls a few times, once told me that people are mistaking the lack of progress for a lack of understanding. The answer to your question is self-resolved when one first answers the question, "Which verse goes with which city?"

I have this mini theory that the reason Edward Blyden is referenced in the way of twin babies being named after him is that he is known as the "Father of Pan-Africanism" and that the Fair Folk use this idea to disguise their use of a Carribean topic that is African influenced Pan music. Pan is another name for Calypso or "steel pan" drum music.

C) Edward Blyden. Because twins named Edwin and Edwina were literally named after him. Literally. And because the exact same book where this is revealed also contains the specific translation of the Sarmiento quote in Verse 2. " ...our minds should not be so open that our brains fall out. Keeping an open mind does not mean naively attributing equivalency between two positions irrespective of the evidence. " —Chris Brookmyre

Aah, but "Blyden" sounds like "blave." And as we all know, "to blave" means "to bluff".

"anybody want a peanut?" I dabble in so many theories, that it starts to all blur like a Tammy Faye faceplant on a palimpsest. It's tough to know what the author's original intent was after so many what-if's have contaminated the data. Since Forrest Blight's discovery back in 2008, a lot of other Edwin theories have been offered up. I got interested in this treasure hunt around the time shecrab and animal painter started talking about Harleston, and more recently Whiterabbit and others have been talking about Edwin Booth like it's a top notch fact of the hunt. Not long ago, my attempt to use Blyden in a theory took the persective that we don't really need to identify the exact person Edwin and Edwina are named after. We could focus on someone named Edwin or Edward, but my take on it was more of an attempt to fit it to my twin-lighthouse and succession theory, since the idea of naming two chidlren after a single person could be A) two different and unrelated kids, one boy and one girl, or B) a brother and sister, non-twins, and C) twins. I opted for C before I even recognized the Blyden connection, because I liked the letters WIN being a commonality: edWIN, edWINa, tWIN. I'm now moved to the idea that the brother-sister based on the same male (him) name is a really good point out to a person named Edward who has the role of being a father. I think we have to assume this puzzle is possible without the discovery of the Abroad in America book. We would be only in the position to deduce that we're looking for an Edward who is a father and then discover the best related connection to the cultural link of Africa. Edward's title as "Father of Pan-Africanism" is the best logical link. A 1967 publication by Hollis R. Lynch titled Edward Wilmot Blyden: Pan-Negro Patriot may be cited for how a man would name his first born child after Blyden whether it's a boy or a girl. Edward Blyden was a great African. It may be noteworthy that in 1980, Edward Wilmot Blyden III the grandson was the Adviser to the 1st President of Seirra Leone. Another thing of interest is the word "Pan". In Trinidad and Tobago, the steelpan drum is called a pan, the central instrument for calypso music. Trinidad and Tobago are a pair of islands. This Caribbean island pair might extend to the idea of fraternal twins and the word DAD is in the name. I know the idea of relating a south Caribbean island to Charleston is something most people might automatically reject. Who knows what Preiss had in mind. What he deemed useful and integral to the African puzzle was entirely up to him. Trinidad and Tobago owes a lot of it's heritage to it's indiginous tribes, nearby South America and then lots of influence from Africa and India. My personal heritage is in connection with my great grandfather who was among many Indians from Calcutta to Bombay for the promise of land. He earned a 100-acre parcel of land in exchange for farming sugar cane.

erexere wrote:: "I know the idea of relating a south Caribbean island to Charleston is something most people might automatically reject. Actually, there is quite a bit of Caribbean inspiration here: "...The community was established in 1670 by English colonists from Bermuda, under the first Governor of South Carolina, William Sayle, on the west bank of the Ashley River a few miles northwest of the present city..." "...There was a great deal of trade with Bermuda and the Caribbean, and some people came to live in Charleston from these areas..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_o ... h_Carolina Many houses are painted a pastel color...said to be inspired by the Caribbean. hxxp://www.sciway.net/sc-photos/charles ... w-row.html

Good thing I responded to all of the other threads and threw in some Edwin/Edwina references before coming here. Not. At the end of the day, I'm about 75-25 on the idea that Edwin/Edwina are a Blyden reference that gets us to Charleston. The fact that Preiss seems to snatch his references from the exact same book is pretty strong. Rhetorical P.S. Who the Hell is Edwin Harelston?

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Rhetorical P.S. Who the Hell is Edwin Harelston? You mean Edwin C.Harelston?

Edwin Harleston was a civil rights leader and artist in Charleston. He had a niece, Edwina, who was named after him. But unless there's something that ties him into the puzzle somehow, I think it's safe to assume that BP's talking about Blyden, and that the line is just a Charleston confirmer.

Edwin sounds like "a twin".

Maybe this reference to a Cooper in Treasure Island is like the Atropos (Three Weird Sisters) reference that is found near the Melville quote. So Anthony Ashley Cooper, the First Lord of Trade, was one of the first designators of the port of Charleston? Is the Cooper River named after him? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anthony ... haftesbury TO THE HESITATING PURCHASER If sailor tales to sailor tunes, Storm and adventure, heat and cold, If schooners, islands, and maroons, And buccaneers, and buried gold, And all the old romance, retold Exactly in the ancient way, Can please, as me they pleased of old, The wiser youngsters of today: --So be it, and fall on!  If not, If studious youth no longer crave, His ancient appetites forgot, Kingston, or Ballantyne the brave, Or Cooper of the wood and wave: So be it, also!  And may I And all my pirates share the grave Where these and their creations lie! Oh snap! The proper noun form of Cooper must be a reference to this First Lord of Trade, Ashley Cooper. This is a great way to link V6 to Charleston if the Cooper and Ashley Rivers are named after him. Thanks for that lead, tjgrey!

erexere wrote:: ... Oh snap! The proper noun form of Cooper must be a reference to this First Lord of Trade, Ashley Cooper. This is a great way to link V6 to Charleston if the Cooper and Ashley Rivers are named after him. Yes, there's no way the words actually IN the verse link it to Charleston...

Odysseus, tied to the mast of his ship listens to the sounds of the siren's death song, stand and listen to the birds

Sorry, I didnt expand on my developing theory. The eyes of old lends focus to the large eye on the sailor's ship in the popular (in the art history or Classics community) Siren scene on this historic vase. I thought the circles look like thise on the moth wings. The Odysseus line of investigation comes from a major historic event to Charleston involving Denmark Vesey aka Telemachus.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/SS_Syren Anybody heard of this awesome coal burning steamship?

Im banking on BP having an above average knowledge of Civil War history. The SS Syren was a significant player for the Confederacy. The Treasure Island reference suggests that BP has a plan for something relating, whether its RLS/piracy/shipping/islands/or some other content, like the suggestion that Cooper in the immediate reference might act as a hint for one of the main river boundaries of Charleston. There looks to be a smooth parallel between the age of pirateering, the transport of goods by ship, and the maritime blockades of the Civil War, which followed the same transits being described by the SS Syren and other steamships that moved goods from the Caribbean to support the Confederate South.

Unknown: THE ODYSSEY OF HOMER TRANSLATED INTO ENGLISH BLANK VERSE BOOK I ARGUMENT In a council of the Gods, Minerva calls their attention to Ulysses, still a wanderer. They resolve to grant him a safe return to Ithaca. Minerva descends to encourage Telemachus, and in the form of Mentes directs him in what manner to proceed. Throughout this book the extravagance and profligacy of the suitors are occasionally suggested. Muse make the man thy theme, for shrewdness famed And genius versatile, who far and wide A Wand'rer, after Ilium overthrown, Discover'd various cities, and the mind And manners learn'd of men, in lands remote. He num'rous woes on Ocean toss'd, endured, Anxious to save himself, and to conduct His followers to their home; yet all his care Preserved them not; they perish'd self-destroy'd By their own fault; infatuate! who devoured The oxen of the all-o'erseeing Sun, And, punish'd for that crime, return'd no more. Daughter divine of Jove, these things record, As it may please thee, even in our ears. The rest, all those who had perdition 'scaped By war or on the Deep, dwelt now at home; Him only, of his country and his wife Alike desirous, in her hollow grots Calypso, Goddess beautiful, detained Wooing him to her arms. But when, at length, (Many a long year elapsed) the year arrived Of his return (by the decree of heav'n) To Ithaca, not even then had he, Although surrounded by his people, reach'd The period of his suff'rings and his toils. Yet all the Gods, with pity moved, beheld His woes, save Neptune; He alone with wrath Unceasing and implacable pursued Godlike Ulysses to his native shores. But Neptune, now, the Æthiopians fought, (The Æthiopians, utmost of mankind, These Eastward situate, those toward the West) Call'd to an hecatomb of bulls and lambs. In the interest of accuracy, I learned from two sources that the reference to Kingston, Ballantyne and Cooper were all respected authors that inspired RLS and he honors them in his epigraphic poem as a way to prepare the "hesitating purchaser" of Treasure Island for a rich tale of historic adventure. BP's reason for using such a reference might still be a way of drawing us closer to the Cooper River, but the river is named for a different Cooper. The epigraph and first lines of The Odyssey by Homer follows a similar path, where it references the heroic sailor Odysseus/Ulysses and his men in connection with Africa or "Aethiopians," which in ancient Greek terms is a general reference to the darkest skinned people found in the west and south regions known today as Africa. This intro also introduces Telemachus and Calypso,

On April 8th, 1873, the scene of a murder, then declared a suicide, of Lighthouse Keeper Andrew Johnson's wife, immediately after she buried her diamond studded hairpins and other valuables in the sand nearby continues to stand out in mind as an opportunity to create an elaborate puzzle. On the eighth a scene near twin lighthouses, an old but popular true story about buried treasure involving the happenstance name of President Lincoln's successor Andrew Johnson... hxxp://www.lighthousedigest.com/digest/ ... ryKey=3660 People have been strongly opinionated against the idea. Exactly why isnt clear. Is McClellanville too far away? Is an old lighthouse ghost story too far fetched? Is there substantial evidence that its unlikely or impossible that the public or Preiss himself would have acces to Lighthouse Island at Cape Romaine? Does the May 13th 1913 birth date of William Tolbert Jr., killed president of Liberia in 1980, but decendent of free African people emmigrated from Charleston as a parrallel to VP Andrew Johnson (closest at hand to the white house) and Pres. Lincoln's assassination in the Civil War era just too complicated or conceivable? Also on a final note, the death of the keepers wife, Abraham Lincoln, and William Tolbert, all occurred in the month of April which is the birthstone month for Diamond.

Unknown: People have been strongly opinionated against the idea. Exactly why isnt clear Quite simply, you have presented no evidence that this solve is consistent with the other two (Chicago and Cleveland) that we know. Or for that matter, any of the other puzzles where we think we have a reasonable idea about how they are supposed to work (Milwaukee, Roanoke, FoY, Houston). With all due respect, your "solutions" only work in your head. They appear to be of little value to anyone else.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Quite simply, you have presented no evidence that this solve is consistent with the other two (Chicago and Cleveland) that we know. Or for that matter, any of the other puzzles where we think we have a reasonable idea about how they are supposed to work (Milwaukee, Roanoke, FoY, Houston). With all due respect, your "solutions" only work in your head. They appear to be of little value to anyone else. When I say it isnt clear, you return a hollow arguement without specificity. So with all due respect, I have offerex specifics to many of the class of theories in which I rely on the distinction that Chicago and Cleveland are themselves highly theorized, i.e. existing in people's minds, with very little to be verified by the author in the way of specific declarations. The findings of those casques are not themselves absolute proof of every piece of BP's methodology. There is without doubt room for discussion when it comes to the parameters of the puzzle. Your argument is one of consensus fallacy. I only have theories, and they dont "work" in terms only of my imagination. I share historic references and any hopeful visuals for consideration. If you are unwilling to rcognize there can be a flaw in the consensis paradigm, then I understand why you avoid addressing such specifics that rely on actual dates, or citations, which may be expected discoverable to anyone from a pre-internet perspective.

erexere wrote:: When I say it isnt clear, you return a hollow arguement without specificity. So with all due respect, I have offerex specifics to many of the class of theories in which I rely on the distinction that Chicago and Cleveland are themselves highly theorized, i.e. existing in people's minds, with very little to be verified by the author in the way of specific declarations. The findings of those casques are not themselves absolute proof of every piece of BP's methodology. There is without doubt room for discussion when it comes to the parameters of the puzzle. Your argument is one of consensus fallacy. I only have theories, and they dont "work" in terms only of my imagination. I share historic references and any hopeful visuals for consideration. If you are unwilling to rcognize there can be a flaw in the consensis paradigm, then I understand why you avoid addressing such specifics that rely on actual dates, or citations, which may be expected discoverable to anyone from a pre-internet perspective. I am going to have to agree with erexere here, Erpobdelliforme. You compellingly disseminate enterprise paradigms without appropriately meshing go-forward schemas. On top of that, you simply evoke granular imperatives, and you progressively incubate intermandated prospectives. This has been detrimental to holisticly engaging functionalized strategic themes across the puzzles. Just stop already, and try to offer something of substance.

Thank you for your stochastic sarcasm, Hirudiniforme. When you weigh in, we feel all burdens lifted. Who needs a mule when we have you for a valet of reason? Blyden was known as the father of Pan-Africanism. He was considered a great man for specific reasons. He applied himself significantly as a theologian. The golden fruit on the branch in Image 2 might be symbolic of something biblical. The "bearing of fruit" is well-known as a metaphor for being the "good" results which come from being a "good" disciple. To some these "fruits" involve bearing children and the duty of passing on the teachings in accordance with the scriptures. Thoughts on a practical application for this biblical fruit? The fruit hangs just above the daisy. All that comes to mind when I think of kids and daisy's is this youtube vid: https://youtu.be/ViXBdfw7ZEs Then the idea of the lighthouse with it's light removed seems to share the same meaning as a daisy with it's head popped off...

I think that when you try and explain the feeling of the puzzle, erexere, something gets lots in translation. What seems clear in your mind is nowhere near as clear to those reading it. It's more helpful to have some sort of system where you can tell us that x=a, y=b, z=c, rather than try and describe xyz in a way that ascribes the essence of abc. I'm personally okay with considering theories that seem to conflict with what we think we know, considering that going by what we think we know hasn't exactly yielded any results. But I have trouble following your train of thought, and even when I do, following that train of thought often leads to a derailment miles down the line, so I'm sometimes hesitant to hop down your rabbit hole unless I have plenty of time. :p But I at least appreciate that you're trying to offer something of substance--something that plenty of others on this forum aren't even allowed to do. I think we need to find 421 a new hobby to supplement his treasure hunting, since his current one seems to be logging into a forum just to bitch about you.

Frisco wrote:: I think we need to find 421 a new hobby to supplement his treasure hunting, since his current one seems to be logging into a forum just to bitch about you. Please do. I'll be happy to hear about it when I get back from actually digging in a city I am travelling to dig at. Hit me up then with your ideas!

Maybe you could start a dirt collection from all these empty holes you've dug.

Well, i dont know about everyones private motives. The motive to discuss the puzzle because we dont know the answers should be abundantly clear. To some the motive is more about expressing their frustration and belittling others for their own inadequacies. I wish I were a better writer and I could relay my process better. At one time I was very sharp at solving equations in 400 level chem and physics, but that doesnt seem to help me in this historical and literary world. The only thing that keeps me going is a good-natured desire to work with others. The problem isnt so much that I am on a different track; you maie a great point that my theories can take an extreme turn and lose the audience. Thats something I can work on. Tell me where the gap is and I will address it. How's that? It may be that I (or anyone else) simply dont have the correct starting point. The best we have are some vague references to Blyden and RLS. The pbwiki talks about Poe living on Sulivans when he was assigned to Ft. Moultrie. There are so many disconnected references to the pbwiki, theres little to no strategy to isolate a thematic connection. In Chicago I went into depth on the suspected participation of a fair folk adaptation for "electricity" and how the "ten by thirteen" fell in line with the theme as a grid. The "grid" is a common euphamism for the electric grid. The windmill as a power generator is a great supporting hint for a theme based strategy. I did the same for Cleveland in how it involves finding a terminal and vessel as defined by Greek architecture and the connection to nymphs holding spring water. Nobody seems to be discussing thematic points of view as defined by the fair folk of origin.

Here's a juicy date in history: April 12th. On April 12th, 1861, the first shots were fired at Fort Sumter, beginning the American Civil War. On April 12th, 1980, the first shots were fired in an "indiginous" uprising in Liberia leading to the death of their President William Tolbert, Jr. (born May 13, 1913)

Frisco wrote:: Maybe you could start a dirt collection from all these empty holes you've dug. From all indications, he's done a lot of digging. I'm actually proud of his empty-handed accomplishements. Any digging at all is a remarkable feat. I think there's an actual rule only found in the rare signed pre-release copies of the Secret that say it's required to dig a lot and then make some externalizing excuse as to why your theory can't be wrong.

erexere wrote:: From all indications, he's done a lot of digging. I'm actually proud of his empty-handed accomplishements. Any digging at all is a remarkable feat. I think there's an actual rule only found in the rare signed pre-release copies of the Secret that say it's required to dig a lot and then make some externalizing excuse as to why your theory can't be wrong. The actual rule states that you must dig (not probe) to know if you are right or wrong; and if you have come up empty-handed, you have to go back to the drawing board, rethink your solution, and try again. Coming to grips with the fact that you could be or were wrong is a major part of the puzzle, and integral to one of these things ever being recovered. Determination is not useful when trying to advance a theory, only while digging at its endpoint.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: The actual rule states that you must dig (not probe) to know if you are right or wrong; and if you have come up empty-handed, you have to go back to the drawing board, rethink your solution, and try again. Coming to grips with the fact that you could be or were wrong is a major part of the puzzle, and integral to one of these things ever being recovered. Determination is not useful when trying to advance a theory, only while digging at its endpoint. The original rules didn't require digging, but we can't get the answers otherwise now, for sure. I didn't mean to suggest that it wasn't great that you're digging, just poking fun at the fact that you're so smug about it. I agree about going back to the drawing board, which is why I think it's odd that you're so vehemently opposed to exploring theories that don't agree with the rules you've arbitrarily set for yourself and your group. Personally, once I dug a few empty holes based on certain assumptions, I'd start at least considering that my assumptions might be partly at fault. But that's a topic for methodology, and one we've already agreed to disagree about.

For the Charleston location, what are the leads so far that connect to the words "Or May 1913"? I've done a lot of research into that date. The preceeding line "Freedom at the birth of a century" is something I believe sets up a lead to think the May 1913 is related to a particular person's birth. It is entirely possible this relates to this guy , which can follow a steady line of reasoning from origins in South Carolina to Edward Wilmot Blyden and the ripples of slavery and revolt in Pan-American history. I think there is a connection to Liberia, from its founding to the assassination of its 20th president, and the Sumter pendant (looking more like military dog-tags) is a symbol for ideals against slavery and possibly a lead to the assination of Lincoln. It's important to note that dog tags serve as a means to identify fallen soldiers. Soldiers in the Civil War scatched their personal information on their belt buckles or wrote their information down on a piece of paper or letter that they held on their person. Modern tags traditionally come in pairs, one tag is collected and the second is left with the dead soldier for identification. The "Edwin and Edwina" as a reference to twins might reinforce this dual tag idea. Perhaps this puzzle involves finding a number of "paired" references.

I think the use of the words "where law defended" is to be applied to slavery law. The constitutional laws were challenged by the abolishionists, leading the Confederates to fire upon Ft. Sumter.

We know theres a physical object of interest in Houston that might indirectly relate to the literary quote from Melville in the Verse 1/Image 8 puzzle. I'm talking about his reference to the Fates following the line about the "what we take to be our strongest tower of delight" and the 1972 sculpture named Atropos and dedicated by Wood. This approach might be similar to whats going on with the Charleston puzzle. We know that the note to the hesitating purchaser of Treasure Island talks about men of tales and tunes, etc., also mentions Cooper of the wind and wave. Lord Cooper connects directly to Charleston in that the peninusula is between the Ashley and Cooper rivers. (SEE HERE) I think theres a refining point to this prospect given the word "coop" also relates in word meaning to being a word for a basket, cage, or cask. The verse mentions birds. Birds might connect to being contained in a 'coop'. A cooper is also a barrel maker. Barrels contain liquid or dry goods. I think the "bar that binds" is a "barrel that holds". I'd much rather support the idea that 'to hold' is perfectly synonymous with 'to bind' than to search high and low for an earthquake bolt...

erexere wrote:: For the Charleston location, what are the leads so far that connect to the words "Or May 1913"? I've done a lot of research into that date. The preceeding line "Freedom at the birth of a century" is something I believe sets up a lead to think the May 1913 is related to a particular person's birth. It is entirely possible this relates to this guy , which can follow a steady line of reasoning from origins in South Carolina to Edward Wilmot Blyden and the ripples of slavery and revolt in Pan-American history. I think there is a connection to Liberia, from its founding to the assassination of its 20th president, and the Sumter pendant (looking more like military dog-tags) is a symbol for ideals against slavery and possibly a lead to the assination of Lincoln. It's important to note that dog tags serve as a means to identify fallen soldiers. Soldiers in the Civil War scatched their personal information on their belt buckles or wrote their information down on a piece of paper or letter that they held on their person. Modern tags traditionally come in pairs, one tag is collected and the second is left with the dead soldier for identification. The "Edwin and Edwina" as a reference to twins might reinforce this dual tag idea. Perhaps this puzzle involves finding a number of "paired" references. Unknown: ...I think the "bar that binds" is a "barrel that holds". I'd much rather support the idea that 'to hold' is perfectly synonymous with 'to bind' than to search high and low for an earthquake bolt... Have you found anything related to "May 1913" other than the capstan? I do like the "paired references" thought to your post. The struggle is real... However, I'd agree that holding/clinching/binding are interchangeable...but it's not hard to find earthquake bolts in the city. Factually, while Cape Romaine sounds fun, it doesn't line up with what we have been told so far. It's that "the road beneath...", "ride the man of oz", and so on...we are told where to go, and in many cases how to go. We aren't told to head up that way, nor is any kind of boat included/called out in the verse as a method of travel if we were to go out to that island (because that is the only way to get to that island). Furthermore, I can't find any references in the verse that match up near McClellanville and the cape islands, because if we were to go there, I would expect these to start falling into place.

I haven't found a descriptive explanation for traveling more than 36 miles from the center of Charleston. I've thought the latitude and longitude point might be the broadest net that could be cast for this kind of situation. That would make any place outside of 60 miles of those numbers most unlikely. When I start from fresh and try looking at the puzzle based on finding the capstan, I've not understood how the puzzle works to get to it or where to go next. I'm still trying ideas. Latest is the geometric perspective, but that's difficult to assess not knowing what determins scale or direction. So much is just a crapshoot anymore. I'm sure we're all just waiting for another casque to be found somewhere so that we could understand better how these puzzles are each shaped by Preiss' methods.

April is the month for diamond. A lot of people here have shared the inclination that Verse 6 goes with Image 2. I think thats fair justification to consider that the lines "or on the eighth, a scene / where law defended," may possibly have to do with an event or criminal act that occurred on the 8th of April. If the events from April 8th, 1873 as reported in the local news are to be disregarded as Erpobdelliforme and Hirudiniforme imply by their carefully crafted responses, then perhaps some other event on April 8th of some other year might be worth looking into.

If, May 1913 = MAINE CAPSTAN Then perhaps, "Or May 1913" = OR MAINE CAP = CAPE ROMAIN

forest_blight wrote:: "Blyden had two children, Edwin and Edwina." A small point: My reading of the passage is that the twins Edwin and Edwina were not Blyden's children -- they were simply named for him (according to Abroad in America ). forest_blight wrote:: tjgrey's note about Denmark Vesey slipped under the radar for me, so thanks erexere for bringing it back to the fore. This is indeed exciting. There may be something here. Unknown: Edward Wilmot Blyden (3 August 1832 – 7 February 1912), the father of pan-Africanism, was an educator, writer, diplomat, and politician primarily in Liberia. Born in the West Indies, he joined the free black immigrants to the region from the United States; he also taught for five years in the British West African colony of Sierra Leone in the early 20th century. His writings on pan-Africanism were influential in both colonies, which were started during the slavery years for the resettlement of free blacks from the United States and Great Britain. It's hard for me to tell, but based on other users posts over the years and some of the activities on other sites, such as the pbwiki, it seems that few people retain or focus on the fact that the Abroad in America reference even exists or the fact that the figure for whom Edwin and Edwina are named after is Edward Wilmot Blyden. WHO is this person, and WHAT do they have to do with Charleston or any sort of motif that follows a logic suggested by the poem or image structure? As far as the Wikipedia indicates, and maybe this is enough to satisfy some lead, the first few sentences about EWB are as follows: I would like to highlight that the most significant connection for EWB to Charleston is his political operations in Liberia and his support/initiative for the movement of free blacks to Liberia. I can think that the only reason for his connection to this puzzle is to recognize some the role of Liberia or perhaps the history of its founding in connection with Charleston, which leads us to the events of 1822 which brings us to the question of Denmark Vesey and whether his gain of freedom in 1800 connects to the line "freedom at the birth of a century".

I am beginning to think the whole point of the Edwin and Edwina line might have been to simply identify the city that goes with the verse. EWB may be completely unimportant to the hunt apart from identifying Charleston as the city where Edwin and Edwina were named after someone.

Hi F_B, I see what you mean. The AiA reference does bring Charleston into the context, so you could have it right, but I just sat down with my copy of AiA and theres a fair amount of content about Blyden, chapter 16, pages 157-166, and I cant shake the feeling that the most of it embodies the sense that emmigration to Liberia is the central focus. Hmm.

The first sentence of the May 1913 issue, The Monsters of our Back Yards: "My task is to open the readers of the National Geographic Magazine a door into a world full of romance as the fairy tales of Grimm or Andersen."

forest_blight wrote:: I am beginning to think the whole point of the Edwin and Edwina line might have been to simply identify the city that goes with the verse. EWB may be completely unimportant to the hunt apart from identifying Charleston as the city where Edwin and Edwina were named after someone. Agreed. There is waaaay too much lore/theory/conspiracy/math/astrology/code in the solutions these days. Not saying that is incorrect, but until 1. the straightforward theories have been dug (tested) and come up dry, and 2. I have reason to believe that these are anything more than straightforward, I will continue to think they all "sort of" work like Chicago and Cleveland.

The Secret is packaged in such a partiular way that it becomes a balancing act to always wonder if there isnt more to it. That Treasure Island actually makes reference to the same Ashley Cooper for which the two river boundaries of Charleston is beyond coincidental. The strategy we adopt in our solutions might require some recognition of certain sources if we are to make progress in a straight forward manner. The National Geographic Magazine from May 1913 has an article titled The Monsters in our Backyards. It reads in the same way as the field guide to the fair folk. It talks about their migration and "immigration" and has pictures of different grasshoppers, crickets, spiders, etc., and their scientific name in parenthesis followed by a description and their mating their habits. The cicada in particular is described in detail as a drum that produces a rhythmic mating call. Verse 6 refers to birds and sounds. Might that be consistent with a theme about "romance retold". I think its important to consider options as to why the naming of the Edwin/Edwina children is important to the solution beyond a "straight forward" reference to Charelston.

Unknown: Then, in their airy wake, out of Nubia and Ethiopia and the jungles beyond the Mountains of the Moon, flew high and swift (by deeper magic still) the Fairy spirits of Africa. The shy in-dwellers of every ashorin, baobab , and mahogany, winged-friend of each river, of every bird, beast and insect , were wafted away on the Southern Trades, and fluttered down, like a windfall of butterflies , far from the tribal warfare and slave traders, upon the islands of the Carribees and the New World's eastern shore. Unknown: Africa's Diamond, earth-born star, Bright harvest of the midnight rock. Unknown: Difficulties between the newcomer Tree Spirits of Africa and the native Carribees were resolved in their mutual love of music; what was to have been a winner-take-all of both groups was quickly transformed into a month-long party --a " jump-up " on the beach, during which festivities, according to legend, rum was invented . Unknown: "Fifteen men on the dead man's chest-- ...Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum! Drink and the devil had done for the rest-- ...Yo-ho-ho, and a bottle of rum!" Selections in Bold are my emphasis: P. 16-17 of The Secret P. 21 of The Secret P. 22 of The Secret Now, taking in all of the thematic material presented in Image 2, and considering the nuances of Verse 6, we have a short list of really strong points to consider in order to understand what Preiss might've had in mind. We have: a solid African theme, the April month gemstone (diamond), and and a clear connection to birds, beast and insects. We know Treasure Island serves some purpose to the puzzle. Treasure Island is the ultimate pirate tale and the source of RLS' famed song Deadman's Chest where he writes Knowing that this is the African puzzle, I believe Preiss saw ample opportunity to coordinate the RLS pirate theme with the topic of rum and the implication of barrels as they may equate with "drums". What better way to package this puzzle than to infuse it with some of the history and lore of the Carribbean? A month-long party? Carribbean Carnival lasts for approximately a month or more until it concludes on Ash Wednesday. It involves "playing Mas" (wearing costume and masque), a celebration with steel drum music and the crowning of a Calypso King. The November 1971 issue of National Geographic Magazine presents an article about the Carnival tradition in Trinidad and Tobago. If you consider that the May 1913 verse hint might be a reference to the insect field guide that talks about the drumming cicada that emerges every 17 years, then maybe this issue of NGM, which is about Carribbean drumming and the African influence, which also talks about challenging other bands in a "jump up" and "Versailles (masquerade) seen through tribal eyes", perhaps this might allow us to conclude that the "cool, clear sound of water" has something to do with the cistern type purpose that a baobab tree or a simple drum "a bar that binds" or a thing which holds drinking water such as this barrel found in Cape Romain next to it's the twin lighthouses:

forest_blight wrote:: I've certainly been wrong before. I believe I offered to eat my hat if V2 didn't point to St. Louis last year. Now if I could just find a really small, digestible hat... Are you referring to the city of St. Louis?

I'm referring to whatever uses of "St. Louis" do not result in me consuming a hat.

Nice save!

Unknown: M Y TASK is to open the readers of N ATIONAL G EO- GRAPHIC M AGAZINE a door into the world as full of romance as the fairy tales of Grimm and Andersen." Recap: Or May 1913 David Fairchild writes an article for the May 1913 issue of National Geographic Magazine, First sentence: Question: Could this Fairchild article be of any significance to The Secret, a treasure hunt about fairy folk?

Not true. You're making a bad assumption. I know for a fact I could find this issue on my grandfather's book shelf. I know for a fact i could find this issue at many local libraries.

It would be interesting to ask Sandi if she recalls if Byron had a good sized collection (800+) of NGM sitting around the house (garage, attic, basement, etc).

MrSeabass wrote:: ...You have not used any methodology or logic to affirm that your evidence is relevant. Yes I have. I've proposed that the evidence of a May 1913 magazine article that mentions Grimm and Andersen in it's first sentence could be relevant to a treasure hunt about fairy folk. I wasn't under the assumption that I would find anything in National Geographic Magazine when I made the discovery. I had a long list of considerations on what "May 1913" could point towards. I assume all of us have googled the date in hopes of finding something. I wasn't expecting it to be so easy, so I spent a great deal of time doing the research to rule out various major publications or records that might pertain to that date. I checked the National Register of Historic Places, lists of famous art works, the New York Times, the Smithstonian, etc. and found nothing noteworthy. Not until recently did I find this issue of NGM and when I discovered the first sentence of this article and field guide by someone with the word "Fair" in their last name mentioned Grimm and Andersen, I thought it was worth sharing here, since the Secret is also a field guide and it's about fairies. This is the result of a research methodology.

MrSeabass wrote:: Yes, go right ahead and harass a widow about something that I'm sure she wants nothing to do with anymore. No, your sarcasm is noted. Do you have anything other than foolishness to offer these forums?

Another line of research to consider inovolves the assumption that the birth of a century is fixed upon the founding of the USA in 1776, thus Century One is 1877-1976 and Century Two is 1977-2076. Something having to do with a "white house", "freedom" and a medal (see image 2's Fort Sumter), palms on ribbon bars, in 1977, the birth of Century #2, First Lady Bird Johnson received the Pesidential Medal of Freedom. How might Lady Johnson be connected with May 1913 or something relevant to Charelston?

In 1972, First Lady Pat Nixon traveled to Africa with former First Lady Bird Johnson, I find it interesting that they delivered a speech at the inauguration of William Tolbert (born May 13, 1913). This African travel story about the 36th and 37th First ladies is a little more accessible to a 1981-based audience than a 68 year old magazine article. Furthermore, Tolbert is the grandson of Danial Frank Tolbert of South Carolina who sailed from Charleston to Monrovia on the Azor on April 21st, 1878 (Liberian Exodus). Acknowledging the Edwin and Edwina reference in Abroad in America, means recognizing this individual: Edward Wilmot Blyden (3 August 1832 – 7 February 1912), the father of pan-Africanism, an educator, writer, diplomat, and politician primarily in Liberia. I think it's clear that some deep African/Charleston research was performed by Preiss. Looking again at the verse, Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century = Lady Bird Johnson, recipient of the Presidential Medal of Freedom in 1977 Or May 1913 = an issue of National Geographic or the birth of William Tolbert in Africa Edwin and Edwina named after him = Edward Wilmot Blyden Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended The use of the word "or" would indicate some particular connection between the Freedom and May lines, so the focus on Lady Bird Johnson and her trip to Africa to meet Tolbert should lead the searcher to relevant thing or place in Charleston. Perhaps the Blyden line supports the May 1913 line by stimulating some geographic thinking about Liberia. I'm beginning to think we must hearken to the words of Lady Bird Johnson delivering a speech in Liberia. I'm also beginning to think her name is important to picking up on the relatively obscure news of a murder scene on April 8th of 1873 when lighthouse keeper Andrew Johnson killed his wife. Since I've used the internet to reveal most all of these details, I'm still unsure how people would proceed to make each discovery in 1982. Anything is possible, but it seems only a Charleston resident would have the privilege of hearing the gory tale about a monster in their own backyard. I don't know what source would apply to paying attention to the events of the First Ladies. These days I only hear about Michelle Obama by watching Jimmy Fallon. Maybe Ed Sullivan reported on Pat and the Bird in 1971...(before my time)...but I don't really know what source would best be used in 1982.

Or... ... you could (without researching) find "May 1913" is printed one place in Charleston - White Point Garden. Whaddaya know... It's on the Maine marker. What's a main part of the image? Oh look, the image is built around the mane. Com'on mayne!, use your brain! I don't disagree that there are many literature-based clues embedded directly and indirectly in these verse. But, if you asked me how we would solve these puzzles, I would lean toward street smarts rather than book smarts. Why? As evidenced by the solved puzzles.

Palicgofueniczekt" post="463172579 wrote:: A new century starts at year 1, so 1801. Hope this helps. Those are good points, but it could stand to be reconciled that the found casques provide proof of their own case and not enough to support proof of a system. We can play word association all day, and it just one unproven methodology among many. I just posted this to SA, where trolling is even more enlightening: Maybe that does help. Ive seen differing sources on Denmark Vesey. I bought an old book about him that says he bought his freedom in 1800, while wikipedia's source says 1799. Neither being 1801, so that being the case, the words "start of a new century" or "birth of a century" wouldnt strictly apply. Why does Priess use the word "birth" anyway? It would seem he wnts us to recognize that kind of event where a person or event undergoes a typical naming ceremony. Thts what people do with new babies. Isnt that what happened in 1776 when the founding fathers decided it was no longer the King's country and we would be a "United States of America". I'm really warming up to the idea of using the dates 1877 or 1977 as new centuries after the adoption of the US Constitution in 1776. I'm also warming up to the VP succession of Johnson after both Lincoln's and JFK's death. That twin or parallel is perhaps what snagged BP's attention and why he goes through the trouble of using the Edwin and Edwina line and wby he says "white house close at hand", meaning the VP. How could it not pique ones imagination to hear that a murdering lighthouse keeper had the same name of Lincoln's successor? Thats why I believe the Twin Lighthouses in Cape Romaine some 30 miles outside Charleston are a consideration for finding a casque.

erexere wrote:: I'm really warming up to the idea of using the dates 1877 or 1977 as new centuries after the adoption of the US Constitution in 1776. By your logic, any year at all would serve as the birth of a century. The years 1853, 1927, and 2006 are all births of centuries. 1776 might be described as the birth of a country , but I don't think it could be usefully described as the birth of a century.

True that should be obvious to anyone but word birth is utilized at least one example I can think of for our nation wasn't it called Birth of a Nation? Didn't that early film represent a lot of the controversy and inequality and racism in this country?

erexere wrote:: Those are good points, but it could stand to be reconciled that the found casques provide proof of their own case and not enough to support proof of a system. I agree they can look different, and that has sorta been what has been going on as far as thought process for the last while. But what if the two puzzles work in the exact same manner... A manner that you haven't yet discovered. And then, after some thought, you find that nearly all the puzzles exhibit the same clues and structure, and that using the same manner leads to a consistent and predictable place in the remainder of the puzzles.

That's just pro-postulate

You mean like....if you went back and started over from scratch and then actually found similarities that others missed...and then applied them to all the puzzles and surprisingly they all worked the same? No....pa shaw....you don't say.

In thinking more broadly about the verse, I'm wondering why the word "remuneration" is important to this puzzle. Could it have something to do with a standard denomination for a coin or bill? Could it be related to a particular President? Does Charleston, S.C. tie specifically to one particular bill more than the others?

In 1873, resembling bank notes, the South Carolina Railroad printed it's own "Fare Tickets". Each One-dollar denomination represented 25 miles of travel fare.

"Freedom at the birth of a century" (fatboaC) Maybe the idea here is to connect the mention of twins (two same things) to century as a nudge to the bicentennil of 1976. That is alao the same publish date as Abroad in America.

"Seen by eyes of old" Thats a strange line given that the older eyes get, the more likely they might progress towards blindness. Could be this is only a way of saying a story or event occurred long ago, as in those buccaneering days. "Where law defended" Police are sometimes referred to as "the Law". The verb "police" includes meanings "to guard or defend". When I consider the April 8th murder story, that does include an investigation by the police in which they resolved the case as a suicide. It was later discovered to be a murder when Andrew Johnson confessed on his death bed. That name Andrew Johnson still sparks in my mind as something Byron Preiss would certainly think "hey, thats the same name as President Lincoln's Vice President!" How weird is that? I imagine he learned it from some magazine article or Lighthouse Boat Tour tourguide.

Thought this was interesting. Not sure how it relates though: https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d=SU19130523.2.11 Regards, Mac

May 1913 reference if it triggers anything for anyone: https://books.google.com/books?id=FNwtAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA710&lpg=PA710&dq=%22may+1913%22+charleston,+sc&source=bl&ots=FnHF3WM3cx&sig=3WmcByY9A-LrSJhhoibq3ZvJWQM&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjbs4aq8_jYAhWs5IMKHYB4Ay0Q6AEINjAD#v=onepage&q=%22may%201913%22%20charleston%2C%20sc&f=false Regards, Mac

Freedom at birth of a century... maybe not literally birth or start of a century... maybe just in years. 1863 to 1963 is known as the century of emancipation. Thoughts?? Regards, Mac

Sterocox posted an interesting fact about WEB Dubois on page 6 of this thread. Then I found this and feel there maybe a connection. hxxp://www.edwardianpromenade.com/african-american/the-emancipation-proclamation-exposition-of-1913/ Regards, Mac

I wonder if the points to find a key person born during a particular 100 year span. What year, I don't know...1814-1913?

I wonder if anyone's ever had Centuplets

JamesV wrote:: Giving this post a quick bump after some chats with WhiteRabbit, in the hopes that it might prompt one of our San Francisco-based hunters with an open mind to look into a possible I1/V6 pairing. Having never personally been to SF it's hard to judge from Google Maps, but it looks as if all of these landmarks noted are visible within a 1/2-mile walk through Chinatown. My only contribution (so far) is that whole "Freedom at the birth of a century / Or May 1913" bit...could it be a reference to the Boxer Rebellion at the end of the Qing dynasty,1899-1901, and then the formation of the Republic of China between 1912-13? Interesting to note than Sun Yet-sen, pictured in the statue that WhiteRabbit dug up from St. Mary's Park, is also known as the "father of the nation". I also learned that he traveled back and forth between China and San Francisco somewhat regularly. It was a little challenging for me to search for images online since I don't know the area, but maybe a sharper set of eyes can find some sort of plaque or historical marker around here which reads "May 1913." JamesV wrote:: Quick follow-up to the previous post on St.Mary's square...apparently there's also a "White House" right across the street from the statue that WhiteRabbit found. It looks to be a public parking garage now, but it's apparently also some kind of historic SF landmark which might further suggest an I1/V6 pairing. Link: hxxp://thewhitehousegaragesf.com Also: just learned that Title 8 of the US code deals with the role of aliens and nationality in the United States, and Chapter 8 of this code specifically deals with Chinese immigrants. No joke...this is officially titled as "The Cooly Trade". Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_8_o ... tates_Code Could the Chinese Exclusion Act, enacted in 1882 and repealed in 1943, possible be the inspiration for the couplet "Or on the eighth a scene / Where law defended"? Again, unsure if there's any historical markers or similar nearby, but it seems to fit well with both I1 and the immigration theme. Also interesting: The adjacent park from St. Mary's, the Union Square shopping area, was built up over a sand dune... (Link: hxxp://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/arti ... 731306.php ) Originally posted this in the Image 1 thread yesterday, cross-posting to the Verse 6 thread for future reference:

davinci4 wrote:: Completely agree. This verse seems like a walkthrough in SF with the beginning maybe starting at a water fountain (clear sounds of water). Any ideas on a water fountain? There are so many in SF. The one in Ghirardelli Square seems like an obvious one with reversed “GH” in the image. Nob Hill has a fountain. It is on Clay Street which would take you to my favorite spot (LaFayette Park). If verse 6 references RLS in SF then there is a fountain in portsmouth square. and the lightposts around the square look like this... please not that which holds up the light...

maltedfalcon wrote:: If verse 6 references RLS in SF then there is a fountain in portsmouth square. and the lightposts around the square look like this... please not that which holds up the light... Okay. That’s VERY interesting. Great find!!... Is the Robert Louis Stevenson monument a water fountain or is there another one there?

davinci4 wrote:: Okay. That’s VERY interesting. Great find!!... Is the Robert Louis Stevenson monument a water fountain or is there another one there? I think there was a fountain nearby, but I'm not sure anymore ,on top of the monument is a sailing ship and waves of water...

It was once a drinking fountain.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: It was once a drinking fountain. That's right! I remember that photo now!

Great pic!...Okay. Trying to connect the dots here. I happen to agree with White Rabbit regarding Lafayette Park as the burial site. The last six lines make logical sense and there are some great image confirmers that support it including the Victorian drinking fountain and “the bar that binds”. The RLS memorial in Portsmouth square seems like the most logical starting spot. Love the idea of the waves and water fountain to go with the RLS reference at the beginning. That picture says it all. Two ways I see it: 1) There could be different ‘paths’ to the park with the “or” basically telling us there is more way than one. For example, Portsmouth square via Clay/Washington (Washington = freedom at birth of a century?) or Bush street (Edwin booth plaque) to Octavia “the eighth”. The weakness to this theory is that someone in 1982 would have to figure out that the Edwin Booth plaque was the starting point. Not impossible, but ?needle in a haystack. The second “or” wouldn’t add up either. 2) all the Lines are a city walk through (similar to Milwaukee): Start in Portsmouth square to Grant/Kearny to Bush Street to Octavia to LaFayette Park. Can’t seem to make the connection with “birth of a century” to Grant/Kearny though. This is a tricky one.

I thought the Edwin Booth idea was rendered obsolete since the E. Wilmot Blyden link was discovered.

erexere wrote:: I thought the Edwin Booth idea was rendered obsolete since the E. Wilmot Blyden link was discovered. It’s an interesting point. I have always tried to use Wikipedia cautiously in these hunts and ask what reasonable information was available in 1982. In both cases, the information is a bit difficult to find even by google/Wikipedia standards, specifically May 1913/formation of actors union and Edward Blyden’s kids names. My guess is the former may have been more attainable only because one could have linked ‘Edwin’ to Edwin Booth then found more information on him. The best way to answer this question would be to get a 1982 edition of Encyclopedia Britannica and see what it’s in there. Anyone have an old copy lying around?

The line is from this book(1967): https://www.ebay.com/i/222842208577?chn=ps The thing that gets me about Booth is his not being a good association with Africa.

davinci4 wrote:: It’s an interesting point. I have always tried to use Wikipedia cautiously in these hunts and ask what reasonable information was available in 1982. The Common Knowledge Fallacy It is important to remember that the knowledge of this hunt does NOT need to be commonly available or easy to access. There is only 1 criteria for the esoteric knowledge contained in this hunt. Did Byron Priess know it? That is it. Was it in a book on his bookshelf, did he learn about it in school or elsewhere - no way of telling. For all we know Byron Priess wrote a book report in High School on Sarmiento's Travels in the U.S. in 1847

erexere wrote:: The line is from this book(1967): https://www.ebay.com/i/222842208577?chn=ps The thing that gets me about Booth is his not being a good association with Africa. When you think about it, Edward Blyden is also not a great link to Africa. I did a lot of research on this when I started taking a critical look at the "established" pairing of V6 for Charleston.... Blyden only visited SC once, and there's no record/monument to his visit except for this one letter, which quotes a newspaper article. Moreover, he was a founder of the Pan-African movement, which basically advocated for reverse immigration, sending freed slaves back to Liberia. Although most of these ships left from Baltimore, known as "Freedom's Port", there's no Blyden monuments in that city either. Regarding V6, I would (respectfully) argue that WhiteRabbit's connection of Edwin Booth to San Francisco is a much stronger possibility for these lines than Is Edward Blyden.

JamesV, I understand your argument, except it fails on the opening statement that Blyden doesn't link to Africa. We do k ow the Charleston puzzle is linked to that culture of origin, so that commonality is at least something to begin with on understanding the nature of the reference. I don't believe it's required to determine it's about Blyden in the first place. Jumping to the need to identify a monument or establishing his connection to Charleston is premature. The Edwin and Edwina being named after him line might onlyhave a simple purpose: "a twin" and "a twin", which I think fits well for the side by side lighthouse pair at Cape Romaine. I'm prompted by the subject of lighthouses after delving into RLS'sstrong family the to lighthouse building. https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/645 ... Stevensons Many of the Secret lines her us to take a trip down the road of obscurity. At some point we're going to have to wonder how far is reasonable. Is RLS's family background any more obscure than Booths or Biden's for that matter?

erexere wrote:: Many of the Secret lines her us to take a trip down the road of obscurity. At some point we're going to have to wonder how far is reasonable. Is RLS's family background any more obscure than Booths or Biden's for that matter? Fair point! I probably should've said something like, "Edward Blyden is more likely to be associated with his life's work, helping freed slaves emigrate back to Africa, which goes against the book's theme of immigration towards the New World."

Pardon my typo. I meant Blyden not Biden. I should say it's fair to consider V6 for SF, but only long enough to realize V7 pairs better. Then we can get back to wherever the scurvy dawg Joe Blyden buried his treasure....

JamesV wrote:: When you think about it, Edward Blyden is also not a great link to Africa. I did a lot of research on this when I started taking a critical look at the "established" pairing of V6 for Charleston.... Blyden only visited SC once, and there's no record/monument to his visit except for this one letter, which quotes a newspaper article. Moreover, he was a founder of the Pan-African movement, which basically advocated for reverse immigration, sending freed slaves back to Liberia. Although most of these ships left from Baltimore, known as "Freedom's Port", there's no Blyden monuments in that city either. Regarding V6, I would (respectfully) argue that WhiteRabbit's connection of Edwin Booth to San Francisco is a much stronger possibility for these lines than Is Edward Blyden. Agreed. Question now is how do we make the verses work? I think this is close to a solution. One other thought about the Edwin Booth plaque, if we start at Portsmouth square, how would one get to Bush street with the verses provided? The May 1913 reference always bothered me. I always felt like May 1913 was a marker on a plaque or monument.

Or May 1913 Mayor in 1913

erexere wrote:: Or May 1913 Mayor in 1913 Where does this lead us though?

Mayor John P. Grace. Grace Memorial Bridge in Charleston is my guess. That points us in the direction of Sullivan Island or even the twin lighthouses on Cape Romain. Itrs an idea anyway. "or may" for "mayor" is just a gut instinct sort of guess.

Something important to consider might be the level of sophistication that the Fair Folk would be expected to use in their puzzles. I think there's going to be a balance of simplicity mixed in with some trickery. The reference simple things like romance of birds and the sound and coolness of water. It's basically meta knowledge for us to talk about RLS or detailed historic references. When they mention long palms shadow, that could easily be derived as their words for a lighthouse next another lighthouse.

Anyone have pics of Lafayette Park in SF, in particular the area adjacent to the tennis court? Satellite images appear to show an area of “sand”. Thoughts on “two arms extended”?

erexere wrote:: Something important to consider might be the level of sophistication that the Fair Folk would be expected to use in their puzzles. I think there's going to be a balance of simplicity mixed in with some trickery. The reference simple things like romance of birds and the sound and coolness of water. It's basically meta knowledge for us to talk about RLS or detailed historic references. When they mention long palms shadow, that could easily be derived as their words for a lighthouse next another lighthouse. yes if the fair folk wrote this hunt that would be something to consider, shouldn't we be instead looking at BP?

maltedfalcon wrote:: yes if the fair folk wrote this hunt that would be something to consider, shouldn't we be instead looking at BP? Well sure, if BP role played the fair folk, I am hoped to develop a different approach. It seems to me most people look past the basics and complicate things with the meta process.

Curve ball for you, Edwin Booth died in New York City. And, there is a USS Maine memorial outside Central Park that was dedicated May 1913. Might have nothing to do with anything but I found them interesting.

Hey everyone I was just wondering, it seems all of you don't think this poem is for Image 2 (Charelston). I'm just wondering how confident ya'll are. Not trying to question you, it's just I've been using this verse for years for Image 2. I was wondering if there are other verses youd recommend I explore. And what other verses are you exploring for your image?

We can always try to work this verse with another picture. It just takes a good reason to explore an option. I remember reading someone trying to establish the Treasure Island fit in SF. A theory is only good to a point and when it starts to get wonky, we should take a moment to reconnect with reality whether we're role playing the fair folk or not. Treasure Island's preface, puts us in a position favoring Charleston because "Cooper of the wind and wave" is a person of direct significance to the Charleston geography. Lord Ashley Cooper is namesake for both river boundaries to the peninsula. I like the LotJ as a hint for a lighthouse, because "earthborn and bright" might be good descriptions for a land based beacon. Merging RLS with a lighthouse connection is a sturdy course. When I venture to a hard to access island 35 miles away to consider twin lighthouses, I'm forced to evaluate for wonkiness. I was willing to proceed further and found some interesting history that strengthens the basis for taking a closer look. I have to stick a pin in that, since I live on the West coast. If I lived near Charleston, I'd go in for a closer look asap.

phinetic wrote:: Hey everyone I was just wondering, it seems all of you don't think this poem is for Image 2 (Charelston). I'm just wondering how confident ya'll are. Not trying to question you, it's just I've been using this verse for years for Image 2. I was wondering if there are other verses youd recommend I explore. And what other verses are you exploring for your image? I have always thought this verse matches SF, check out WhiteRabbits solutions for details.

phinetic wrote:: Hey everyone I was just wondering, it seems all of you don't think this poem is for Image 2 (Charelston). I'm just wondering how confident ya'll are. Not trying to question you, it's just I've been using this verse for years for Image 2. I was wondering if there are other verses youd recommend I explore. And what other verses are you exploring for your image? The Abroad in America reference irreversibly links this verse wth image 2, for me

Treasure Island / Blackbeard can be directly tied to Charleston though too. "In May 1718, Blackbeard's pirate fleets appeared at Charleston, South Carolina. Soon they were stopping every vessel entering and leaving the harbor. Almost ten vessels were plundered before Charleston acted on the reoccurring problem. All incoming vessels were soon diverted from entering Charleston harbor and all vessels already within the harbor remained in port because of the siege from Blackbeard's fleet. Before this happened though, Blackbeard was able to take many important high-ranking citizens as prisoners hoping they would be useful. He held them for ransom for medical supplies and threatened to kill them all if he did not get his wish. Several days after sending one of the hostages and two of his crew to deliver the ransom note, he received his medical trunk and true to his word he released all the prisoners without a loss of life." There are also lighthouses in Charleston.

For the record, the scene of a murder on April 8th, 1873 involved investigating the lighthouse keeper Andrew Johnson. I continue to wonder if the "white house close at hand" is a clever way of referring to the a vice president, closest at hand to the president. Andrew Johnson was the vice president for president Abraham Lincoln.

erexere wrote:: For the record, the scene of a murder on April 8th, 1873 involved investigating the lighthouse keeper Andrew Johnson. I continue to wonder if the "white house close at hand" is a clever way of referring to the a vice president, closest at hand to the president. Andrew Johnson was the vice president for president Abraham Lincoln. Okay, that's interesting, but how does it tie into the puzzle and Charleston proper? Also, in 1982, is this something that could be reasonably discovered while researching the puzzle?

GManTexas, let's consider reasonability. These events are local and are public record. How that information is obtained in 1982 is unclear, but there are republications of that story in lighthouse journals and readers digest. Is it reasonable that anyone touring South Carolina lighthouses might hear anything about their history? I am visualizing a tour guide sharing the events of a reported murder mystery and the possibility of buried jewelry belonging to s Keepers wife. Is it reasonable that the subject of lighthouses might have something to do with RLS? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_ ... l_engineer ) I think RLS's Treasure Island ties into this factoid of local lighthouse history well enough to warrant further examination.

erexere wrote:: GManTexas, let's consider reasonability. These events are local and are public record. How that information is obtained in 1982 is unclear, but there are republications of that story in lighthouse journals and readers digest. Is it reasonable that anyone touring South Carolina lighthouses might hear anything about their history? I am visualizing a tour guide sharing the events of a reported murder mystery and the possibility of buried jewelry belonging to s Keepers wife. Is it reasonable that the subject of lighthouses might have something to do with RLS? https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_ ... l_engineer ) I think RLS's Treasure Island ties into this factoid of local lighthouse history well enough to warrant further examination. I get that, and I agree, but are using this to get us in the neighborhood? It seems like it would not relate to the puzzle.

Unknown: Stevenson, Robert Louis (1850–1894). A Child’s Garden of Verses and Underwoods. 1913. 11. Travel I SHOULD like to rise and go Where the golden apples grow;— Where below another sky Parrot islands anchored lie, And, watched by cockatoos and goats, 5 Lonely Crusoes building boats;— Where in sunshine reaching out Eastern cities, miles about, Are with mosque and minaret Among sandy gardens set, 10 And the rich goods from near and far Hang for sale in the bazaar,— Where the Great Wall round China goes, And on one side the desert blows, And with bell and voice and drum 15 Cities on the other hum;— Where are forests, hot as fire, Wide as England, tall as a spire, Full of apes and cocoa-nuts And the negro hunters’ huts;— 20 Where the knotty crocodile Lies and blinks in the Nile, And the red flamingo flies Hunting fish before his eyes;— Where in jungles, near and far, 25 Man-devouring tigers are, Lying close and giving ear Lest the hunt be drawing near, Or a comer-by be seen Swinging in a palanquin;— 30 Where among the desert sands Some deserted city stands, All its children, sweep and prince, Grown to manhood ages since, Not a foot in street or house, 35 Not a stir of child or mouse, And when kindly falls the night, In all the town no spark of light. There I’ll come when I’m a man With a camel caravan; 40 Light a fire in the gloom Of some dusty dining-room; See the pictures on the walls, Heroes, fights and festivals; And in a corner find the toys 45 Of the old Egyptian boys. Found this mention of golden fruit and man eating beasts from a 1913 book- don't know if it was published in May...

nah, the golden apple was an entirely different TH

RIP TGAT... Wait, what is a "palanquin"? Sounds like a Palancar groupie...or one of those Saruman skype orbs in LotR.

erexere wrote:: RIP TGAT... Wait, what is a "palanquin"? Sounds like a Palancar groupie...or one of those Saruman skype orbs in LotR.

maltedfalcon wrote:: nah, the golden apple was an entirely different TH Darn you Cam Kaskgn

I am down a very deep rabbit hole but I am starting to think that the Edwin and Edwina reference may either be a dual reference or not related to Edward Blyden. Edwin Booth, brother of John Wilkes Booth, and his daughter Edwina were named after the Actor Edwin Forrest. hxxp://www.npg.si.edu/exh/brady/gallery/81gal.html Like I said, I am down a rabbit hole with historical references, but the theaters in the old French Quarter seem to be a topic of interest. ...More to come

gManTexas wrote:: I am down a very deep rabbit hole but I am starting to think that the Edwin and Edwina reference may either be a dual reference or not related to Edward Blyden. Edwin Booth, brother of John Wilkes Booth, and his daughter Edwina were named after the Actor Edwin Forrest. hxxp://www.npg.si.edu/exh/brady/gallery/81gal.html Like I said, I am down a rabbit hole with historical references, but the theaters in the old French Quarter seem to be a topic of interest. ...More to come For a lot of time we paired this verse with image 1, as there is an edwin booth memorial

Fox and Catherwood were discussing this back in 2003. hxxp://npg.si.edu/object/npg_NPG.81.M30.D1 As Erexere recently pointed out, the theory fell out of favour after the discovery of the Abroad in America references. I have no doubt that BP was aware of these; they're way beyond coincidence. But I don't think they're proof positive.

Unknown: But I don't think they're proof positive. Like I said WR, mostly sure.

So, either way, the National Portrait Gallery is involved. Isn't Abroad in America an NPG exhibit catalog?

Unknown: Isn't Abroad in America an NPG exhibit catalog? It was part of their Bicentennial Exhibit. As someone recently mentioned, the Bicentennial, like Lincoln and F.L. Olmsted, are reoccurring themes throughout the puzzle. But if there is an absolute connection on way or the other, no one has found it yet.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: It was part of their Bicentennial Exhibit. As someone recently mentioned, the Bicentennial, like Lincoln and F.L. Olmsted, are reoccurring themes throughout the puzzle. But if there is an absolute connection on way or the other, no one has found it yet. The Bicentennial was a huge event. Many, many things were done related to it. And in 1980 - 1982 it was very recent history. It would almost be impossible to avoid.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Fox and Catherwood were discussing this back in 2003. hxxp://npg.si.edu/object/npg_NPG.81.M30.D1 As Erexere recently pointed out, the theory fell out of favour after the discovery of the Abroad in America references. I have no doubt that BP was aware of these; they're way beyond coincidence. But I don't think they're proof positive. WhiteRabbit, are you still thinking this verse refers to SF? I always liked the ‘8th’ connection with Octavia in SF. SF also has an 8th ave (at Golden Gate Park) and an 8th Street. The ‘8th’ connection in the Charleston/wiki solution pulls from a library reference and nothing specifically at the proposed burial site. The Edwin reference could definitely be either but the 8th connection in SF seems stronger.

davinci4 wrote:: WhiteRabbit, are you still thinking this verse refers to SF I'm open-minded...I still like SF, though Charleston has a lot going for it too, and although it seems unlikely, perhaps it could even turn out to be somewhere else. It seems to me that BP deliberately confused the issue, and we don't know for sure yet which of the trails is the real one. I think there are several verse/image combinations that are still up in the air, and I'm hoping that at some point some new find will lock one of them down.

Unknown: I'm hoping that at some point some new find will lock one of them down. Honestly, even if we found 8 more casques, I still think we would argue about the Verse/Image pairing of the last two puzzles. Unfortunately it's the nature of the puzzle that the only way to know anything for sure is to pull one of these things out of the ground. And even then we have questions, as my exchange with Bingo yesterday showed. I also don't think it helps the cause when people used the word "solved" when what they really mean is that they have a theory that they really like, but can't ultimately prove. I understand why they do it, but IMO, it only serves to distort the reality of the puzzle I mentioned above. "A little digging is your task."

Before I have posted I wanted everyone to know that I did not read all 52 pages of this forum but have used the search feature to see if my post has been put forth previously. I did not find that my thought is redundant. The line - Harken to the words Harken refers to 3 different people. Preiss' daughter Karah. His wife Sandi MENdelson. And Felix Mendelssohn, a German composer, pianist, Organist, whose https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festgesang A hymn tune, is what the words of Hark the Herald Angels Sing was put to. So maybe the line is a shout out to his wife and daughter and the words are German?

I disagree. I think the harken line is about hearing words, probably something to do with a speech by a well known public figure.

MrSeabass wrote:: I mean if erexere disagrees with someone's six-degrees-of-separation theory... Look, if you think that Mrs Preiss, nee Mendelson, and Mendelssohn who wrote the tune to Hark the Herald Angels Sing is a six degree separation theory then I don't know what to say. And.....if you can't see the similarity between Hark and Karah...

I did not see where anyone had come up with a solution for long palm's shadow? An OAR is a PALM.

It's fine to have an interesting thought process, and you may suppose all sorts of loose links, but one's own confidence is not what makes a theory compelling. I wager that you're on the wrong path when you look too external factors to justify Press's methods. The painting has some helpful hints and confirming shape matches, while the verse itself helps navigate some site correctly.

erexere wrote:: Or May 1913 Mayor in 1913 My first thought.....

It seem that Edwin and Edwina have not been nailed down, or some kind of consensus. The etymology of Edwin is rich friend. So maybe one of the connections has a rich person involved.

Wicket wrote:: It seem that Edwin and Edwina have not been nailed down, or some kind of consensus. The etymology of Edwin is rich friend. So maybe one of the connections has a rich person involved. I think there are two leading contenders: 1) SF- Edwin being Edwin Booth (or Edwin Forest) 2) Charleston- Edward Blyden Either is very possible. I think it really comes down to which location and verses you feel match better. I like SF location because of the RLS reference and the connections to the Lafayette Park location.

https://1drv.ms/b/s!An5iiS4FlLlEgzEbfiiffjLsNi7v I have no opinion as to what verse goes where because I haven't studied them all but..... The above picture shows a long oar. An oar is referred to as a palm. Shadow of long palm.......

Wicket wrote:: Before I have posted I wanted everyone to know that I did not read all 52 pages of this forum but have used the search feature to see if my post has been put forth previously. I did not find that my thought is redundant. The line - Harken to the words Harken refers to 3 different people. Preiss' daughter Karah. His wife Sandi MENdelson. And Felix Mendelssohn, a German composer, pianist, Organist, whose https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Festgesang A hymn tune, is what the words of Hark the Herald Angels Sing was put to. So maybe the line is a shout out to his wife and daughter and the words are German? youd have found it if they didn't keep deleting my shit. it refers to the docment "harken to the words of a patriot, 1840" which you can find on the Duke website....the clue you deduce from this is the EIGHTH...a reference to the eighth relating to the pirate monument in the later clue (as that incident occurred on the 8th).

already solved this went there and dug spot in painting (triangle sandbox (rock garden) marked by palm trees shadow at 4pm)...which is beside the Fort Sumter Association Building bw the sundial and cannon (two arms extended, one the sundial's shadow, the other the cannon) UNDER the protection of the south battery wall (below the bar that binds water via Bitaro clue)...this one is played...casque is gone.

anus905 wrote:: already solved this went there and dug spot in painting (triangle sandbox (rock garden) marked by palm trees shadow at 4pm)...which is beside the Fort Sumter Association Building bw the sundial and cannon (two arms extended, one the sundial's shadow, the other the cannon) UNDER the protection of the south battery wall (below the bar that binds water via Bitaro clue)...this one is played...casque is gone. And what makes you so sure you have the right solution? Lots of people have what they call the “right solution”, but to say the casque is gone when you don’t find it is just to ignore that your “right” solution may not be the RIGHT solution. There are a lot of “right” solutions. Any solution that fits and can be explained is a “right” solution. But there’s only one RIGHT solution. I have “right” solutions for NYC, Boston, Milwaukee, Montreal, Houston, and San Francisco, but I’m not calling them RIGHT solutions because I accept that I could have missed something or gotten one step wrong that led me off track. It only takes one wrong step to lead you off the path. I actually considered Castle Clinton, until I found something else. The dress under the woman’s upraised arm is a map exactly matching the area between The Battery and the Whitehall Terminal. I didn’t have it in my solution, but when I studied the Verse to find out why it’s there, Castle Clinton became a non-factor. So don’t assume it’s over because the casque wasn’t at your “right” solution. That’s part of the excitement. Keep finding “right solutions, and you may be the one to find the RIGHT solution.

a) i actually know what im doing as opposed to everyone else. b) i account for every single clue, bar none. c) the sandbox i dug in is IN THE DAMN PAINTING EXACTLY.

guardian, buddy...you have no idea what you are doing. and thats ok. but that doesnt change the fact that im 100% right lol.

i haven't seen anyone post this on any of the forums, so i am going to throw this fact into the mix: fort sumter was not controlled by the south for the full duration of the war. for a short period, the north actually had control. September 8th, 1863 (the second battle of fort sumter) the south tried to retake the fort and failed. the law defended (the Constitution)

fort sumter was a union fort dude. it temporarily fell to the confederates. you follow the path that the cannons take in this puzzle. Moiultrie ---> Sumter ---> WPG.

anus905 wrote:: a) i actually know what im doing as opposed to everyone else. b) i account for every single clue, bar none. c) the sandbox i dug in is IN THE DAMN PAINTING EXACTLY. a) this accounts for the number of casques he has dug up, wanting to dig in a cemetery, and using objects that didn't exist in 81 as clues. b) including clues that have absolutely nothing to do with this hunt. c) Then why don't he show everybody this clue so we will all know he is correct?

which clue? ive released this complete solve...

There's a wealth of options to consider for the African puzzle. Evidence to contradict or support each case is thin or non-existent, or merely based on whim or belief. I continue to wonder what this puzzle is really about, so I'll attempt to review some ideas I brought up years ago. How does the Fort Sumter shape anchor our perspective? Its shape could be used to determine a direction on a map, since it has a unique five-sided shape with the one edge being longer than the others. The question then, if this is meant as map style clue, is what other feature(s) in the painting would work as a second point of reference? If it's not a map clue, then how about a historic clue to the events of the Civil War era, pulling our attention to the 1860's. This is my preferred reason, since I think it links in gist to the name of President Lincoln's closest at hand, Andrew Johnson (White house close at hand). The Civil War was a time of secession for South Carolina. Word play, yet worth consideration, secession (withdrawl from the union) and succession (transfer of power or name to a next in line) are homophonically linked. The word succession is attractive based on the essence of the line about Edwin and Edwina named after him being foremost a literal and first hand example of succession. Andrew Johnson was coincidentally the name of the Cape Romaine lighthouse keeper, subject of the news article about the events of a murder on April 8th, 1873 (on the eighth a scene where law defended). How likely this matter of public record would be available to a Charlestonian in 1982 is up for debate. Somehow I find it likely to be something I'd hear about if I were gonna lighthouse tour, but I would expect the tour guide only to say "the Keeper murdered his wife after she buried her money and jewels somewhere nearby...", though not referencing the name Andrew Johnson. Also, keep in mind that RLS was in succession to be a lighthouse builder, but became a writer instead, https://must-see-scotland.com/robert-louis-stevenson/ Found this interesting note about RLS' story Kidnapped, where he gathers local info for one of his stories while visiting his dad building a lighthouse in Scotland.

do you guys not read what I say? lol Fort Sumter Pendent: after getting to corner of S & E Battery via Huney Monument and Capstand clues, you are directed down Rainbow Row to 50 East Bay St, where you find the stars and lion on the building. the stars on the building relate to the star on the Fort Sumter Pendant. this tells us the white star on the FS pendant represents the white house in the verse...so we know that the white house somehow relates to fort sumter. thus, we know our white building is the Fort Sumter Association Building at the SW corner of WPG. right across the street from the FSAB is a cannon and sundial. the sundial on the pendant points to 4pm. thus, we are to offset ourselves bw the shadow of the sundial at 4pm and cannon to find our palms. we then use process of elimination to deduce the correct palm, whose shadow marks the sandbox in the painting at 4pm. so everything on the pendent relates to FS in a sense. RR in that you need it to deduce the FS building via 50 E Bay. the star, in that it both relates to the former clue (RR) white building in verse and FS itself. the sundial via its location across from the FSAB and that its used as one of the 2 arms extended. the eyes are in the shape of the windows at FS.

my only beef with your Andrew Johnson reading is that murdering your wife is not using the law, nor defending anything lol.

anus905 wrote:: my only beef with your Andrew Johnson reading is that murdering your wife is not using the law, nor defending anything lol. Whatever the criminal act, the line "where law defended" seems appropriate.

hmm id have to disagree.

unless its related to his trial, as opposed to the act itself.

in my opinion, law is not often used as a defence, like it sort of was in this case. its used as a punishment or retribution...and as a criminal...youd defend yourself against the law. so I think the pirate analogy is actually one of the few instances in which that phrase does accurately apply.

You are so twisted.

how so? lol its not often that law can be used pre-emptively to defend. cases like anti-terrorism would be one example of how they are. but the law is generally used in a retroactive sense. I think semantics are important here, because Preiss chose his words extremely carefully.

anus905 wrote:: in my opinion, law is not often used as a defence, like it sort of was in this case. its used as a punishment or retribution...and as a criminal...youd defend yourself against the law. so I think the pirate analogy is actually one of the few instances in which that phrase does accurately apply. So odd that I find myself agreeing with Josh more and more as of late...although I'm still inclined to believe that "on the eighth" could be a reference to US Code Title 8 / Chapter 8, as something to do with the federal government's actions under the Chinese Exclusion Act. Tough to investigate any possible I1/V6 connections without having boots on the ground in San Francisco, though.

Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended In 1911, John P Grace was elected Mayor of Charleston for a 4 year term. In 1915, in a hard fought Democratic election for Mayor, Tristram T. Hyde won the nomination by 8 ballots (according to one source that I found). During a meeting of the Democratic Executive Committee on October 15, supporters of both incumbent John P. Grace and challenger Tristram T. Hyde, forced their way into the meeting causing a riot to break out which resulted in the accidental death of Sidney Cohen, who was shot through the lung. In the aftermath, Governor Richard Manning, sent the South Carolina Militia to Charleston to guard against further violence. hxxp://www.charlestonmuseum.org/researc ... 3281408870 hxxp://www.charlestonmuseum.org/researc ... ons&page=1 In 1919 Grace was elected to a second term as mayor, again in a hotly contested campaign, bracketing Hyde's term as mayor. John Grace among other things was responsible for the Cooper River Bridge, posthumously renamed the John P. Grace Memorial Bridge. A second bridge was built along side of it, the Silas N. Pearman bridge. Both of these were demolished in 2005 and replaced with the current Arthur Ravenel Jr. bridge. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_P._G ... ial_Bridge Tristram T. Hyde, during his term as Mayor, was responsible for the transfer of a large portion of Hampton Park to The Citadel for their new campus. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tristram_T._Hyde If we look at Image 2, the pear represents the Pearman Bridge, but really we are looking for the Grace Bridge, which eliminated the need for ferries for transportation and brought more commerce to Charleston. The Grace Bridge, if you follow it into Charleston proper, dumped out southeast of Hampton Park.

by 8 ballots isn't on the 8th though...remember, Preiss picked his words very carefully...and he was very good at it. even though I get how he has designed them, they are so incredible I do not think I could possibly design something so brilliant if I wanted to. and I did want to lol.

I like the recent focus on just this one line, "Or on the eighth a scene" and the possible meanings. The word ' scene ' really is a deliberate choice, but why? Historians might refer to "the music scene" when they really mean a particular time period in a specific place, for example. Could the location be known for a cultural wave? But I would still expect to see a monument, a famous landmark, or even a plaque to commemorate such a theme, something visible to the hunter, rather than relying on common knowledge (or historical research even less). Someone has already mentioned the theater connotation. Again, I'd want to see something specifically indicating "a scene" and not just a theater. Is it on 8th street, or the eighth stop on a public transit route? Could it be a painting in a series of eight or more panels, such as on the sides of a chathedral or a mural (would might no longer exist)? It feels like some of us were thinking of it referring to the 8th day of a month, perhaps because the month of May was mentioned two lines above this one. Perhaps that was a deliberate misdirection, knowing how our minds make leaps and assumptions due to context.

because the hangings were a spectacle (both literally in that they were public, and figuratively in that they were meant to send a message to other would be pirates). it acts out like an epic scene in a play. with the main dude having his execution delayed several times, after his crew had already been offed.

and the reason WHY he brings you to the pirate monument at that particular point in the puzzle...is because...if you did not succeed in or outright ignore the purely visual clues of the fort sumter pendant...you will find yourself at the wrong battery wall, wrong white house, and wrong palm tree (like I did in my very first post on this topic).

its a ruse designed into the puzzle to confuse and/or stifle anyone who didn't follow the full path of the puzzle in context. hence why the real location is at the exact opposite corner (SW, as opposed to NE). he does a very similar thing in the NYC puzzle.

james V how do you use this puzzle for Charleston AND SF?!?!?!?!?!?! *head explodes*

catherwood wrote:: I like the recent focus on just this one line, "Or on the eighth a scene" and the possible meanings. The word ' scene ' really is a deliberate choice, but why? The scene of a crime?

that works too

Why is everyone so focused on the hanging of the pirates, which has questionable dates?

why are the dates questionable???...we know the main guy was hung on the 10th and that his crew were hung from the trees and buried off the point, in the marsh, 2 days prior (the 8th)...which is the exact date reinforced by the earlier clue given at the Hunley Monument via the Harken to the words clue. This obviously takes us to the Pirate Monument in the context of the Treasure Hunt.

this tangent has led me to 2 different riots/occupations...so good! love this puzzle. love that Preiss incorporated such things into the design (like with the occupation of Alcatraz in SF)!!! those late 60's were a helluva time...

anus905 wrote:: why are the dates questionable???...we know the main guy was hung on the 10th and that his crew were hung from the trees and buried off the point, in the marsh, 2 days prior (the 8th)...which is the exact date reinforced by the earlier clue given at the Hunley Monument via the Harken to the words clue. This obviously takes us to the Pirate Monument in the context of the Treasure Hunt. The crew were hung on November 8, 1718 and Stede Bonnet was hung on December 10, 1718, a month later. In the historical record, I see no connection to the law defending the actions of the hanging of the first 24 men, unless you consider the trial to take that meaning. It is a curious choice of phrasing if you believe this. I think the pirate connection is decent, and possibly has the intended effect of pointing to WPG, as does the capstan, but quite possibly a red herring. I don't like the generic "eighth" as being a date, it is too arbitrary. If we look at important events in Charleston history, any number of events that happened on an 8th could be equally or more important. https://markjonesbooks.com/today-in-charleston-history/ For example, also on November 8 (1827), Edgar Allan Poe arrived at Fort Moultrie. Or perhaps, on July 8, 1903 the Board of Park Commissioners approved the name of the new park on the site of the Exposition. It was to be named in honor of Wade Hampton, former Civil War general and South Carolina governor. There are many examples of how it is possible to assign a date. In my previous post, you have both the eighth ballot and a mob scene, connected to a Mayoral election for people that were directly connected to events that shaped the city and the park where I believe the casque to be located. The pirate narrative only puts you in Charleston in general. The plaque at the site only says Autumn of 1718, and why would we place more importance on the crew than Bonnet himself?

Completely agree, though would have to say that this stuff about a ballot makes no sense to me at all.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Completely agree, though would have to say that this stuff about a ballot makes no sense to me at all. I'm pretty sure I posted my potential solve here. It's all in the 2nd revision. If not, I can post it again.

I shouldn't, you'll probably get a bollocking from Drunknerds.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I shouldn't, you'll probably get a bollocking from Drunknerds. He's already given me crap....erhm, uh.... his thoughts on it...lol.

Hey, we can unite against the pirates anyways...

@GMAN...consider what I said "in relation to the treasure hunt"...it is not only likely, but probable, there is at least 1 more reading of the 8th clue that applies to the greater puzzle (just not the treasure hunt itself)...in the context of the treasure hunt...its the pirate monument. ("faeries clues come in twos", remember ) also, keep in mind that Bonnet was SUPPOSED to be hung 2 days after (upon the conclusion of his trial) his crew (which were killed as an example, to any other wold be pirates, who might be thinking of attempting to sack Charleston)...thus, they were using the law (justified capital punishment) to defend the city (against any future attacks). however, he managed to stave off execution seven times before they successfully managed to hang him.

the crew is of more importance because it was there bodies that were buried off the point in the marshes. the same marshes that were then used to build the South Battery Wall, which allowed them to build all the fancy ass mansions to the W of WPG. this is marked by a plaque on the S Battery Wall W of WPG.

this, in turn, relates back to the "Bar that binds" clue, as via said clue, we discern that the bar binds "water" (via literary connection to book on bunyaro kitaro); which, when combined with the FS pendant clues; allows to discern the FSAB is the white building in question, from the verse.

anus905 wrote:: the crew is of more importance because it was there bodies that were buried off the point in the marshes. the same marshes that were then used to build the South Battery Wall, which allowed them to build all the fancy ass mansions to the W of WPG. this is marked by a plaque on the S Battery Wall W of WPG. I'm not buying it. The clues are supposed to lead us to a casque, not just random knowledge of the area. Also, if you MUST post, could you please post everything in one shot instead of 4 posts in a row to respond? Thanks.

Here is my potential solve for the Charleston puzzle, 2nd Revision. Mr. Seabass brought up a good point, even if his messages can be gruff, that why reference the Pearman Bridge at all, since we know we are in Charleston? The bridge is important to connect us to the Grace bridge which ran alongside of the Pearman. Grace as in Mayor John P. Grace. https://www.dropbox.com/s/rzes6zr0cz0q0 ... 2.pdf?dl=0

the puzzle is meant to do both. take you to the treasure AND teach you about the area in incredible detail!!!

@gman: https://repository.duke.edu/dc/broadsides/bdstn012916 also, Hampton park has a mass grave in it :S does that affect your solve?

"Union Cemetery During the closing days of the Civil War, the area was used as a prisoner-of-war camp. More than two hundred Union soldiers died in the camp and were buried in a mass grave at the site."

anus905 wrote:: @gman: https://repository.duke.edu/dc/broadsides/bdstn012916 also, Hampton park has a mass grave in it :S does that affect your solve? The grave was on the north western side of the park. Not at my dig spot. Union Cemetery is no longer a burial site. The graves were eventually removed and reinterred in the 1880s to a national cemetery in Beaufort, SC. The former Union Cemetery became a zoo in 1932, before it became Hampton Park in 1975. The old racetrack—an oval roadway—is still there.

gManTexas wrote:: The grave was on the north western side of the park. Not at my dig spot. Union Cemetery is no longer a burial site. The graves were eventually removed and reinterred in the 1880s to a national cemetery in Beaufort, SC. The former Union Cemetery became a zoo in 1932, before it became Hampton Park in 1975. The old racetrack—an oval roadway—is still there. We have some places like that in San Francisco, but then lately they did some digging and realized it was more of a move the headstones leave the people kind of thing. So there are now a lot of parks in SF that are now considered cemeterys again.

maltedfalcon wrote:: We have some places like that in San Francisco, but then lately they did some digging and realized it was more of a move the headstones leave the people kind of thing. So there are now a lot of parks in SF that are now considered cemeterys again. They recently had a ceremony in Hampton Park to rededicate the memorial to the soldiers. I believe it when they say they were re-interred, but who knows for sure. Either way, the area where I'm looking is away from the former cemetery and where the former zoo was located. I do want to remind everyone that the zoo in some form existed in the park for around 60 years. I believe this is why we have animal imagery in Image 2. Lion, monkey, birds...they were all in the zoo.

Drunknerds. Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to ‘defend’ the Lafayette Park theory. I think “the whole is greater than the sum of the parts” here. With regard to the verses, if we agree Portsmouth Square/Clay Street is a reasonable interpretation for part one, and Octavia/tennis courts for part three, then there is enough information here to lead to Lafayette Park. I agree the Edwin Booth interpretation for part two is not definitive. I think the first half of verses was intended to help triangulate a position at the park (using the “or” repetitively) and not a step by step walkthrough. With regard to the painting, I would consider the water fountain as a strong confirmer. I have a modified version of White Rabbit’s solution that includes the first floor windows at the Spreckles mansion for the barred window. I also interpret the ‘two arms’ extended to be Clay/Octavia which puts you in the center on the park adjacent to the tennis court right at a sandy area that sticks out from the rest of the landscape there. There are three ‘orbs’ half buried in that area too. As a general comment, I could see Preiss choosing this park as it really is a ‘hidden gem’ in SF similar to other burial sites. I hope the SF searchers strongly consider this site/solution and not exclude it from the list.

davinci4 wrote:: Drunknerds. Sorry for the delayed response. I wanted to ‘defend’ the Lafayette Park theory. I think “the whole is greater than the sum of the parts” here. With regard to the verses, if we agree Portsmouth Square/Clay Street is a reasonable interpretation for part one, and Octavia/tennis courts for part three, then there is enough information here to lead to Lafayette Park. I agree the Edwin Booth interpretation for part two is not definitive. I think the first half of verses was intended to help triangulate a position at the park (using the “or” repetitively) and not a step by step walkthrough. With regard to the painting, I would consider the water fountain as a strong confirmer. I have a modified version of White Rabbit’s solution that includes the first floor windows at the Spreckles mansion for the barred window. I also interpret the ‘two arms’ extended to be Clay/Octavia which puts you in the center on the park adjacent to the tennis court right at a sandy area that sticks out from the rest of the landscape there. There are three ‘orbs’ half buried in that area too. As a general comment, I could see Preiss choosing this park as it really is a ‘hidden gem’ in SF similar to other burial sites. I hope the SF searchers strongly consider this site/solution and not exclude it from the list. Excellent. I love a good counter argument-argument back- and - forth. That said, please make actual points and arguments. I’ve noted that the giant block in the middle of the post doesn’t match at all, that the court would never be described by a linguist like Preiss as a “scene” rather than a setting, and that any Octavia/8th street in literally any city has a pretty good match for a “court” somewhere along it. You’ve responded by stating the fountain is a “strong confirmer” without presenting any actual evidence. That does nothing. This is not an election where if enough people say something is true then that makes it true. You’ve also stated “if we agree.. the Octavia/tennis courts is... a reasonable solution,” when I specifically DISAGREED with those two points. Also, it’s tough for me to get on board with the “Preiss wanted to point out a hidden gem” theory when the two found casques were in an empty field by a railroad track and a nonsdescript wall. Plus I’ve been to that park a few times, it never really stood out to me at all. Don’t get me wrong, I want nothing more than for someone to put forth an impressive counter argument that refutes my points and cements that Park as a likely spot, and I love that you are addressing my individual points in a way that would make some solid arguments if they just had some reasoning or refutation. I don’t really care where it’s buried, I just want people to start making actual arguments based on logic and a back-and-forth discussion where both sides make actual points other than “well I think it’s good,” and stop this weird popularity contest where people choose sides and refuse to budge, utterly misrepresent what other people say, and base solves on association even though no puzzle in the history of puzzles (INCLUDING Preiss’ two solved puzzles) has ever used that “technique”

Although there is some disagreement about which image pairs with Verse 6, most people connect Verse 6 to Image 2. A few have connected Verse 5 to Image 2. However, because of the proposed pairings of Verse 5 with Image 3 and Image 9, the odds are now more in favor of Verse 6 pairing with Image 2 and Charleston. And for those who want the location to be Fort Moultrie, don’t worry, you can still get there with Verse 6. As with my Image 2 posts, I have listed some of the currently proposed connections as well as a few new possibilities to think about. Some theories are pretty strong. Others are barely hanging in there. My goal with this and my other posts it to get people to think outside the confines of the current “solutions” because they have not yet yielded any results. So, why not try a different way of thinking? When I read Verse 6, I get the sense of, “Let’s talk about this over here. Now we are in front of a historic location. Notice this. Look at that. Think back when… Now let’s go over there, and I will tell you about that… Follow me.” And that sounds exactly like one of the many walking tours of Charleston. It is as though we are going from historical markers to monuments to memorials and reading, or being told of, the history and significance of the person, place or area. Did Byron Preiss take one of these guided tours to get a sense of the area and then decide to reflect it in the verse? It could be that we have to identify what he is referring to and then follow the path of a tour to locate our dig site. The lines in the verse may match up with locations, but they may not be in sequential order. And, just because there is a plaque that appears to match a line in the verse, it does not mean that it is buried right underneath it or even nearby. It may just be another point on the tour: Of all the romance retold • Although initially appearing to reference Treasure Island, and that might be right, it may also refer to a general retelling of the history of the area. Only a handful of words match the Treasure Island preface. So, this could be a double-reference that fits perfectly into the history of the area and mimics a known literary verse. Thus, making for a great opening line. Men of tales and tunes • Pirates! • Or actors in a play? • Musicians performing? • Before tv and the internet, people had to go and seek out entertainment. One way to do that was to go to the local tavern or meeting hall and listen to people tell stories of places they have been and what they have seen and done. Maybe we are looking for a place where this occurred. Cruel and bold • More Pirates! Arrrrgh! • But seriously, these were hard times, and a lot of cruel acts were carried out on men, women, and children. Think Gadsden’s Wharf and the warehousing of slaves. (Which they are going to be digging up soon, if they have not already started.) • Cruel, Bold, Daring… all of these could be used to describe the acts of soldiers at war or slaves attempting to escape to Freedom. Two of the words are on a historic marker describing Robert Smalls and his daring plan for Freedom. More on him later. Seen here • Where? An actual location? Maybe our dig site? • If we go with Pirates… arrh... this could reference the Pirate House, wharves, or decks of ships • If we go with Soldiers, maybe the ships, battlefields, or forts • If plays or musical performances, it could be a theater, park or tavern. By eyes of old • Eyes of old what? Someone or something that is old and has eyes? Is Old an adjective for which we need to find the noun it is describing? Or is this just poetic form? Like ‘Days of Yore?’ • Although possibly referring to the Eyes of the people in history who witnessed the events described, it could be that the dig location can be Seen from Here through Old Eyes, as in, “Look over there, and think what it would have looked like back then.” That is your clue. Stand and listen to the birds • Literally, “Stand right there and listen to the sounds those birds are making.” • Figuratively, Bird was used as slang for a female. As in, “Listen to those birds go on and on gossiping.” But I don’t get a misogynistic vibe from the author, so this is likely referring to being in a park and listening to actual birds. • Apparently, there are Guinea Hens that roam freely in some areas of Charleston. They sound like chickens. Maybe they will lead us to our location. Probably not. • Are the birds airplanes? Hear the cool, clear song of water • So, if you are already in the park listening to the birds, then why not listen to the fountains as well? • Listen to the waves in the bay? • Water Street? It is near the battery wall. It was built on top of a creek that was filled in to expand the city limits. Were there sounds associated with this? • There is an old song with a similar title, but I don’t think that is what he is getting at here. Probably a fountain. Harken to the words: • This is where I really get the walking tour history lesson feel. As if the next few lines are spoken while pointing out specific objects or making specific references. • Harken means listen, but it has a sort of back-in-time connotation. And he already used Listen. • Are there specific words we need to listen to? The Emancipation Proclamation? • Did someone give another speech or make a formal decree? Where were speeches usually given? A central meeting place, building or park? Freedom at the birth of a century • The Century Magazine was in print in the late 19th and early 20th century. Maybe it provided freedom for its subscribers or authors in the form of the stories published, such as The World Set Free by H.G. Wells which was published in 1914. But it was written in 1913... maybe May 1913? • Robert Smalls stole the C.S.S. Planter and sailed it out past Ft. Sumter around 4:00 am to turn it over to the Union Navy. He finally earned enough money to buy freedom for his family. The historic marker, although placed just a few years ago, uses the words “Bold” and Daring” which were likely used previously to describe him. (marker located at north end of the battery wall near Historic Charleston Foundation.) Not sure how to connect that to the new century, though. • Or, how about Slavery and Freedom? Slavery was abolished as a result of the Emancipation Proclamation in 1863 and the end of the war in 1865. However, it was it wasn’t until about 100 years later that the Civil Rights Act of 1964 was enacted which outlawed discrimination and strengthened the given Freedoms. Another connection to laws, courts, and lawyers. Or May 1913 • The H.G. Wells book from above? • Three soldiers were killed at Fort Moultrie in May 22, 1913 when their cannon exploded during a training exercise (found it in The Sacramento Union newspaper. Who knew?) • Or, the ever-popular U.S.S. Maine capstan in White Point Garden. It was first in Hampton Park, then moved to WPG, then moved again. Likely just a reference point rather that the dig location. Edwin and Edwina named after him • I think this is referencing Edwin Booth. He was a famous actor at that time and performed in the area. His daughter was named Edwina. Are we directed to a theater? Dock Street? • There is a portrait of the two. Maybe it is/was in a nearby art gallery and that is a stop on our tour. • There are other arguments for and against Edward Blyden, but Edwin Booth makes a more direct connection in my opinion. Especially when you throw in the fact that his brother killed President Lincoln… who was directly involved in the Freedom of the very slaves who came through the Charleston ports. Or on the eighth a scene • Eighth day? Month? Year? • Eighth hole at the golf course? There are scenic views from the local courses. • Eighth page of a book? • Eighth scene of a play? As in Act V, Scene 8? Maybe a play which featured Edwin Booth? Where law defended • A courtroom? • A battlefield? • Is this referring to a specific Old County Courthouse? • Could it be referring to religious law? Between two arms extended • Two arms of the law? City, County, Federal? Or Civil / Criminal? • Two different ideologies? • Guns? Cannons? • Actual human arms (shaking hands, waiving, pointing?) • Side note: There is a Little Dancing Girl statue with her arms out in WPG, complete with a water fountain. This knocks out a few lines at once. • Also, there are cannon-a-plenty all over the area. Including Middle St. on Sullivan’s Island. You drive between them on the way to Fort Moultrie. I don’t know when they were placed there, but that is another connection to that area. Below the bar that binds • A bar? Like a tavern? There were many places where people would meet to discuss the goings on of the city. Most were destroyed by fire, and a few have parks built on the land where they stood. (Washington Park) • B.A.R. Board of Architectural Review. They oversee projects in the area. Maybe they “bind” new projects to history to maintain the integrity of the city. • Earthquake bolts? We discussed this in the Image 2 post. • What if this is referring to the Charleston County Bar Association and getting us back to the legal aspect of “Where Law Defended” and Lawyers, Courts, Civil and Criminal trials? Beside the long palm's shadow • The most straight-forward possibility is that we are talking about a palm tree which casts a shadow. However, we are talking about “The Palmetto State” and palm trees are everywhere. So, this particular palm would have to stand out among the others. And it needs to still be where it was in 1980. • Isle of Palms was once called Long Island. It is possible that IF the island could cast a shadow, it would be on Sullivan’s Island and possibly Fort Moultrie. • Palm of a hand? • This line could just be there to connect the verse to the image by using the palm-shaped daisy or the hands of the fairy. Both appear to have shadows. Embedded in the sand • What is embedded in the sand? Is the casque embedded in the sand? Then why not just say ‘buried’? The word Embedded must be significant. • There are a lot of beaches in the area. Is the dig location a sandy beach? If so, it would have to be well protected in case of hurricanes. *Somebody should go check the little concrete structure near the beach just south of Fort Moultrie. It would be protected from weather and onlookers. • If the casque is not actually buried in the sand, this line may be describing the previous line and saying the palm tree is embedded in the sand. But most of them are. Waits the Fair remuneration • Fair wages for services? Referring to The Equal Pay Act of 1963? • Fair or just treatment under the law? • Reparations? White house close at hand. • Personally, I think this last line is a reference to the White House (Washington D.C.) rather than a house that is painted white. Because at any time, the owner could paint the house a different color, and this would no longer be relevant. One of my theories is that we use the Hands on the Sumter clock to get us to a location where George Washington once stayed or spoke. That would make the connection to this line. But he apparently got around when he visited, and everywhere he went, people now say, “Here is where George Washington…” did whatever he did there. This may be difficult to track down. Unless it is Washington Park. • The Old County Courthouse at Meeting and Broad was designed by James Hoban. There is a painting of him on the third floor. He also designed the White House. And what is right across the street from the Courthouse? Washington Park. Some of the statues have changed, but the name is the same. Take from this what you will. I just hope something I have said sparks a new thought and moves this search forward. Thanks!

ive explained all these, at least in relation to the treasure hunt lol. see youtube videos under my name.

UnprovenFact wrote:: White house close at hand. • Personally, I think this last line is a reference to the White House (Washington D.C.) rather than a house that is painted white. Because at any time, the owner could paint the house a different color... Agreed that it isn't just a color, but there are other ways to read the word 'white'. For example, maybe this is Jack White's house (just as "House of Brown" in Forrest Fenn's hunt is not the same as "a house of brown"). It could also be the house where white paint is manufactured, or white linens are laundered. If anything, I think this is anything *but* THE White House, if only for that being too obvious a clue.

Unknown: Personally, I think this last line is a reference to the White House (Washington D.C.) rather than a house that is painted white. Because at any time, the owner could paint the house a different color, and this would no longer be relevant. That's thinking about it in terms of it being 35 years and still not found. Priess meant for these to be found in a matter a months, the the chances of a house being painted in that time was probably a risk he was willing to take. Even more so if it was a significant landmark type house.

i think its going to take an extreme case of convincing for it NOT to be the FORT SUMTER ASSOCIATION BUILDING...

JoshCornell wrote:: i think its going to take an extreme case of convincing for it NOT to be the FORT SUMTER ASSOCIATION BUILDING... or simply finding the casque somewhere else.

JoshCornell wrote:: ive explained all these, at least in relation to the treasure hunt lol. see youtube videos under my name. This one? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z6Yu9WG ... _&index=21

i mean...if you want to roll with that one...by all means....do it up lol...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words: Hitchcock's "The Birds" was filmed at Union Square. The song is the Beach Boys' Cool cool water , "Drink a little drip drip drip drip drink a little" etc - the drinking fountain at Union Square. Bumping this Image 1 / Verse 6 theory, as I stumbled across the Hitchcock/San Francisco connection myself a little earlier today. (I should've used the search feature here, it would've saved me from having to watch creepy movie trailers on Youtube.) Regarding the "cool, clear song of water", maybe that could somehow be a reference to the Admiral Thomas Dewey monument? It looks like it's in the center of Union Square, and was shown in the opening part of "The Birds".

JamesV wrote:: These are lyrics from Hank Williams son Cool Clear Water, not the Beach Boys song.

maltedfalcon wrote:: These are lyrics from Hank Williams son Cool Clear Water, not the Beach Boys song. Yeah, that's my jam. After I failed to secure dig permissions for my I2/V5 "solution" at Fort Moultrie last year, I spent a few weeks in a black hole, trying to shoehorn together an I6/V6 pairing based in Tallahassee. The results weren't pretty...what can I say, it was a dark time. The SF puzzle seems really interesting, particularly given the wide range of possibilities. Right now I'm firmly entrenched in Camp I1/V6, though. Never been there myself, but hoping to score a work trip out that way to investigate further.

I like the possibility of Union Square as a starting point. I am in the I1/V6 camp as well. Keep Portsmouth Square, Knob Hill, Dragon Gate (right up the street from the Booth plaque) on the list as well. The fact that there now seems to be cooperation with parks and rec in SF is one the most exciting turn of events to date.

i used sons of the pioneers

JoshCornell wrote:: i used sons of the pioneers Absolutely love your work, JC.

it acts as a hint to tell you the answer to the "bar that binds" clue, as to reinforce the literary reference.

https://opendocs.ids.ac.uk/opendocs/han ... 56789/1387

JamesV wrote:: Yeah, that's my jam. After I failed to secure dig permissions for my I2/V5 "solution" at Fort Moultrie last year, I spent a few weeks in a black hole, trying to shoehorn together an I6/V6 pairing based in Tallahassee. The results weren't pretty...what can I say, it was a dark time. The SF puzzle seems really interesting, particularly given the wide range of possibilities. Right now I'm firmly entrenched in Camp I1/V6, though. Never been there myself, but hoping to score a work trip out that way to investigate further. Ok then. Fyi there is/was an edwin booth link accross from portsmouth square... I cant remember it right now exactly let me look it up

maltedfalcon wrote:: These are lyrics from Hank Williams son Cool Clear Water, not the Beach Boys song. Beach Boys Hank Williams

beach boys one doesnt make much sense in context...hank covered the song written by bob nolan from sons of the pioneers (1949).

JoshCornell wrote:: beach boys one doesnt make much sense in context...hank covered the song written by bob nolan from sons of the pioneers (1949). Fair enough!

Portsmouth Square (with RLS fountain) is bordered by Grant and Kearny. Five blocks south is the California Theater (with the Edwin Booth plaque) which is also between Grant and Kearny. Both markers are in Chinatown, the main the theme of image 1. Looks like a pretty good starting point for this verse. One step further. Bush, Washington run right into Octavia. Clay ends at Lafayette Park. Even if you don’t like Lafayette Park at least consider Chinatown as a possible starting point for this verse.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Ok then. Fyi there is/was an edwin booth link accross from portsmouth square... I cant remember it right now exactly let me look it up Portsmouth Square (with RLS fountain) is bordered by Grant and Kearny. Five blocks south is the California Theater (with the Edwin Booth plaque) which is also between Grant and Kearny. Both markers are in Chinatown, the main the theme of image 1. Looks like a pretty good starting point for this verse. One step further. Bush, Washington run right into Octavia. Clay ends at Lafayette Park. Even if you don’t like Lafayette Park at least consider Chinatown as a possible starting point for this verse.

beach boys might actually be a ref...but to the wrong fountain, as, if it is used, would point you to the little dancing girl...that would not fit the verse (as you can neither hear that fountain from the bandstand, nor does it align with the birth of the century clue)...so the verse def takes us to the Hunley Monument...but beach boys very well might take you to little dancing girl, which is a drinking fountain.

davinci4 wrote:: Portsmouth Square (with RLS fountain) is bordered by Grant and Kearny. Five blocks south is the California Theater (with the Edwin Booth plaque) which is also between Grant and Kearny. Both markers are in Chinatown, the main the theme of image 1. Looks like a pretty good starting point for this verse. One step further. Bush, Washington run right into Octavia. Clay ends at Lafayette Park. Even if you don’t like Lafayette Park at least consider Chinatown as a possible starting point for this verse. WhiteRabbit posted a ton of good info on his I1/V6 theory in both of these threads. While I think the Portsmouth Square/RLS starting point looks correct, I've got a slightly different perspective on Verse 6. I've been very fortunate to have the opportunity to spend most of this last year in a full-time language program for Mandarin, and I strongly suspect that V6 might be making a few references to the history of Chinese immigrants in the US. "Freedom at the birth of a century" sounds like it could be a reference to China's Boxer Rebellion. (1900). "Or on the eighth a scene / Where law defended" could have something to do with: 1-- US Code, Title 8, which deals with Aliens and Immigration. This could be some kind of reference to the Chinese Exclusion Act, which wasn't repealed until 1943; or 2-- The 8th Amendment to the US Constitution, which prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment." Going down this road, I found a lot of references to San Francisco's discriminatory "Pigtail Ordinance", which basically required Chinese immigrant prisoners to have their queue hairstyles shaved at the jail for "sanitary reasons." This ordinance was enacted in 1870, but ruled unconstitutional in 1879. Building links to either one of these ideas would have required the reader to do a little research, unless there just happened to be conveniently-placed historical markers along the walking route? Pretty hard to tell from just Internet sleuthing, though.

Agreed. I am a huge fan of solves that have tie-ins to street names, landmarks on the ground etc (main reason I favor your solve for Fort Moultrie). This was mentioned at the end of Expedition Unknown. I think Preiss really wanted searchers to go out and explore their city and local parks. I am not really convinced this hunt is a ‘library armchair hunt’ as some solutions suggest. It would be nice if we could tie these concepts of Chinese History into monuments, plaques, in that area.

davinci4 wrote:: . I am not really convinced this hunt is a ‘library armchair hunt’ as some solutions suggest. make sense as the concept had not been invented when this book was published.

davinci4 wrote:: Portsmouth Square (with RLS fountain) is bordered by Grant and Kearny. Five blocks south is the California Theater (with the Edwin Booth plaque) which is also between Grant and Kearny. Both markers are in Chinatown, the main the theme of image 1. Looks like a pretty good starting point for this verse. I got a chance to hit the local library today, and found a couple cool San Francisco guidebooks to page through this week. Fun fact that I haven't see mentioned on Q4T yet: the ship pictured atop of the RLS monument is apparently a scale model of the Hispaniola , which was the ship featured in the book Treasure Island . Sharing a link to a neat travel blog, which has a fun walking tour around the area along with good, close-up pictures of the monument: hxxp://www.billyscities.com/san-francis ... -1-part-1/

Great find JamesV! Only strengthens the Treasure Island reference in the opening of the verse....SF searchers please strongly consider the I1/V6 pairing.

you realize theres a treasure island just off the coast of san fran right? doesnt mean you have to use the treasure island verse for S|F, seeing as i already got to final location using the charleston painting-verse combination.

I am just looking at probability. There are a finite number of plaques/memorials dedicated to RLS and Edwin Booth across the country. In SF, they are exactly five blocks from each other, in Chinatown no less. All I am saying if this were 1982 and I walked south from Portsmouth Square where there is a water fountain and the ship from Treasure Island on top of it (with dragon lampposts in the square) to find Edwin Booth mentioned on a plaque outside the California Theater, I would have been pretty certain I was on the right track.

One more quick note on these I1/V6 'alternative facts' before I wrap up for the day. I was running a few searches this evening, looking for alternate/poetical meanings of some of the words used in Verse 6, and I stumbled across this nugget (thanks Wikipedia!). Apparently the palm used to be a symbol of victory...who knew? (link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_branch). With this in mind, I'm wondering if the Dewey Monument in Union Square ( hxxp://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/un ... -2012.html ) could somehow be associated with the final "long palm" landmark referenced in V6? The statue is meant to symbolize victory, and she's holding a laurel wreath and a trident. Additional circumstantial evidence: the entire Union Square area was originally built up above sand dunes -- "buried in the sand?". ( https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/art ... 731306.php ) Last, there's apparently a historic landmark building called "The White House" which looks to be only a block away ( hxxp://thewhitehousegaragesf.com/ )

you got the garage union square connection right anyways, cause union square is the spot of the first underground parking garage in north america. (maybe the world)

https://www.nailhed.com/2015/05/the-worlds-first-underground-parking.html Reading that whole thing...there are (were) at least 2 underground parking garages in N.A. that are older, with one in Spain that appears to be the world's oldest.

i read that exact link lol. it was the first one planned and designed, they took forever to build it.

"Another significant change happened between 1939 and 1941 when a large underground parking garage was built under the square; this meant the plaza's lawns, shrubs and the Dewey monument were now on the garage "roof." Designed by Timothy Pflueger, it was the world's first underground parking garage." from wiki...i think it may have been the first parking garage in the world that was solely designed for parking.

with other ones being designed as part of buildings.

JamesV wrote:: One more quick note on these I1/V6 'alternative facts' before I wrap up for the day. I was running a few searches this evening, looking for alternate/poetical meanings of some of the words used in Verse 6, and I stumbled across this nugget (thanks Wikipedia!). Apparently the palm used to be a symbol of victory...who knew? (link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palm_branch). With this in mind, I'm wondering if the Dewey Monument in Union Square ( hxxp://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/un ... -2012.html ) could somehow be associated with the final "long palm" landmark referenced in V6? The statue is meant to symbolize victory, and she's holding a laurel wreath and a trident. Additional circumstantial evidence: the entire Union Square area was originally built up above sand dunes -- "buried in the sand?". ( https://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/art ... 731306.php ) Last, there's apparently a historic landmark building called "The White House" which looks to be only a block away ( hxxp://thewhitehousegaragesf.com/ ) Any possible image confirmers in Union Square we could look at?

the connection to union square is the thomas starr king monument.

JamesV wrote:: WhiteRabbit posted a ton of good info on his I1/V6 theory in both of these threads. While I think the Portsmouth Square/RLS starting point looks correct, I've got a slightly different perspective on Verse 6. I've been very fortunate to have the opportunity to spend most of this last year in a full-time language program for Mandarin, and I strongly suspect that V6 might be making a few references to the history of Chinese immigrants in the US. "Freedom at the birth of a century" sounds like it could be a reference to China's Boxer Rebellion. (1900). "Or on the eighth a scene / Where law defended" could have something to do with: 1-- US Code, Title 8, which deals with Aliens and Immigration. This could be some kind of reference to the Chinese Exclusion Act, which wasn't repealed until 1943; or 2-- The 8th Amendment to the US Constitution, which prohibits "cruel and unusual punishment." Going down this road, I found a lot of references to San Francisco's discriminatory "Pigtail Ordinance", which basically required Chinese immigrant prisoners to have their queue hairstyles shaved at the jail for "sanitary reasons." This ordinance was enacted in 1870, but ruled unconstitutional in 1879. Building links to either one of these ideas would have required the reader to do a little research, unless there just happened to be conveniently-placed historical markers along the walking route? Pretty hard to tell from just Internet sleuthing, though. how about "Fair remuneration" ? what do you suggest that is? and what does Mandarin have anything to do with the history of Chinese immigrants?

Spiritr wrote:: how about "Fair remuneration" ? what do you suggest that is? Hard to say. I think earlier in this thread someone had already analyzed the specific word choice of "remuneration", which basically means money paid in exchange for work done or a service performed. "Fair remuneration" then, might have something to do with some kind of local protest/demonstration dealing with pay equity issues? Who knows, maybe there's some kind of labor union or similar building/monument alongside the final dig site?

Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration I'd say that by 'Fair remuneration', he's referring to the Casque, since he's describing where it's located in the previous lines...that would be your compensation and pay for the work you've put in, searching for the damnable thing. Then again, I've never been to Charleston. He might be talking about something else.

JamesV wrote:: Hard to say. I think earlier in this thread someone had already analyzed the specific word choice of "remuneration", which basically means money paid in exchange for work done or a service performed. "Fair remuneration" then, might have something to do with some kind of local protest/demonstration dealing with pay equity issues? Who knows, maybe there's some kind of labor union or similar building/monument alongside the final dig site? offered them a piece of land/a entire island, with 360 sea views consider a remuneration? and that give you that Rose in the image but why a capital "F" could it be F (resh)air?

I agree with the more simple approach. The Fair (Folk) remuneration is a clever way of saying the cask...one interesting thing I never noticed before. It’s states “beside” the long palms shadow. Not the “in the shadow” or “at the tip of the shadow”. Feel like this is not referring to an actual shadow but maybe the border or outline of the “long palm” (tennis anyone?)

palm trees shadow marking half of triangle shaped sand garden (as seen exactly in image) at 4pm? lol

JoshCornell wrote:: palm trees shadow marking half of triangle shaped sand garden (as seen exactly in image) at 4pm? lol

lol

The Fair remuneration sounds like a "Just and equal payment" situation. When we take into consideration something like a scale, where both sides may level out when a set of weights are split equally, it's almost as if this line about fairness is telling us to witness a setting which is the same by some measure, shape, size, weight, or equidistant on both sides. That's the most general approach I can come up with.

One other thought. The “freedom at the birth of a century” line reminds me a lot of “beating of the world.” It is vague, perhaps unintentionally, and could be subject to many different interpretations: Boxer Rebellion, Emancipation Proclomation (Clay, Grant, Lincoln) US Independence (Washington, Jefferson) to name a few.

About to set off on business travel for a while, but before I logged off Q4T I just wanted to post the pipe-dream "dig spot" I've been looking into lately. (This is for a possible I1/V6 pairing, starting at the RLS monument in Portsmouth Square, traveling through Chinatown somehow, ending at the Admiral Dewey monument in Union Square.) Between two arms extended - Could this be a landmark reference for the "Victory" statue atop the Dewey monument pillar? Below the bar that binds - I'm thinking this could simply be a reference for the trident in her hand. It's definitely shaped like a bar, and in a poetical/synonym sense it could be used to "bind" (synonyms: capture, restrain, fasten, etc.) somebody or something. Beside the long palm's shadow - I think I mentioned this earlier in the thread, but this reference might just be a signal towards the laurel wreath that "Victory" is carrying in her other hand. Embedded in the sand - It's a little tough to tell from online photographs, but it *appears* that the base of the Dewey Monument is surrounded by a small circle of fill dirt, sand, or something similar. If that's the case, then this "solution" would pin it down to a casque-sized dig area, in an area which seems to meet the guidelines for the hunt. Moreover, it looks like that historic "White House" department store building ( hxxp://www.thedepartmentstoremuseum.org ... ornia.html ) is only a block away. Now I'm wondering if that "close at hand" reference might actually be some kind of a direction indicator-- like, if the dig spot is the center of a clock, the White House might be directly behind it at six o'clock (time shown on the watch)? Last, just a quick hats-off to all the SF searchers slogging their way through online image searches for this hunt. I swear, over the past few weeks I must have seen several hundred shots of people's coffee cups...

James Vachowski After checking, the flowerbeds around the monument were square and much larger in 1982 During the 1999/2000 renovation the sidewalk and flowerbeds were removed. so there was no dirt around the base of the monument at that time. The cement borders and sidewalk were created and then dirt was filled back in.

Unknown: This is for a possible I1/V6 pairing "Edwin and Edwina named after him". Quite possibly the easiest one, conceptually speaking.

MF, thanks again for having a look at this. I'm still leaning towards I1/V6, but it's clear I'll have to do a little more research. Just FYI, I was working around WhiteRabbit's theory which used Edwin Booth's name on a historical marker -- thinking about switching directions now and heading north from Chinatown instead, possibly using the historic Booth house at 35 Calhoun Street as the clue for this line.

JamesV wrote:: MF, thanks again for having a look at this. I'm still leaning towards I1/V6, but it's clear I'll have to do a little more research. Just FYI, I was working around WhiteRabbit's theory which used Edwin Booth's name on a historical marker -- thinking about switching directions now and heading north from Chinatown instead, possibly using the historic Booth house at 35 Calhoun Street as the clue for this line. If we could find a way to connect Portsmouth Square with the Edwin Booth plaque, it would greatly strengthen White Rabbit’s solution (a solve I strongly support). One would have to walk through the heart of Chinatown. “Freedom at the birth of century” .....

I originally thought that these words might be found as quotes on a historical marker somewhere, but now I think they might just be general clues towards the Chinatown area. If "Freedom at the turn of the century" could possibly be a reference to the Boxer Rebellion, then "Or May 1913" could also be referring to May 2, 1913, when the Republic of China was officially recognized by the US government. Again, I'm unsure if there might be any more specific landmarks in the vicinity.

davinci4 wrote:: If we could find a way to connect Portsmouth Square with the Edwin Booth plaque, it would greatly strengthen White Rabbit’s solution (a solve I strongly support). One would have to walk through the heart of Chinatown. “Freedom at the birth of century” ..... portsmouth square you get to via yerba buena.

cause may 1913 couldnt possibly apply to the capstand in charleston...nah...that couldnt be it...

davinci4 wrote:: If we could find a way to connect Portsmouth Square with the Edwin Booth plaque, it would greatly strengthen White Rabbit’s solution (a solve I strongly support). One would have to walk through the heart of Chinatown. “Freedom at the birth of century” ..... Isn't/Wasn't the plaque across the street from Portsmouth Square? been so long I don't remember...

JoshCornell wrote:: cause may 1913 couldnt possibly apply to the capstand in charleston...nah...that couldnt be it... Possibly it could. But know that parts of the USS Maine, that sank and still remains underwater near Cuba, were dedicated to parks all along the east coast of the US in May of 1913. So if the USS Maine that sunk a year before in 1912 is the correct clue potentially it could be any of those 1913 monuments. Edit: it originally sank in an explosion in 1898, an attempt to recover it was done in 1912 and it sank again where it still sits below the water.

said may 1913 on the plaque in wpg. where the bandstand is dedicated in april, when waterbirds nest in the trees above it.

List of current USS Maine monuments if anyone finds it useful. hxxp://www.spanamwar.com/mainparts.htm#plaque

yea I know, I heard it on the podcast, so what exactly was censored in the Symp-Trog image?

“Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow” Just a thought here. Whichever geographic location you are considering (SF, Charleston, Montreal) for this verse, the lines here seem to specifically indicate the burial spot. What’s interesting is that there seems to be a ‘triangulated approach’ whereby all three criteria must be met. It also implies there is ambiguity if only one or two lines are true. For example, if you correctly locate the “bar that binds” there is probably more than one of “bars” in that spot. The correct “bar” is the one that is in the ‘shadow of the long palm’ and ‘between two arms.’ These two lines would seem superfluous otherwise.

Those verses have always made me think of this statue in SF - https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/g ... -2012.html

MERLIN wrote:: Those verses have always made me think of this statue in SF - https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/g ... -2012.html Cool. I like the ‘two arms extended’ and the ‘bar that binds’ for this statue. Any thoughts on the “shadow of the long palm”?

I believe there was a palm tree near the statue at some point.

The Japanese translation said to think of the verses as a cipher of sorts. So I did. I started going back through old posts and using the search tool like a good newcomer… and I hit on some ideas about anagrams. (Cue the sighs and eye rolls) However, most of what I was finding was an attempt to use the first letters of the lines to make not-so-perfect word matches/confirmers. So, I thought why not? I don’t really have a working ‘solution’ into which I would try to force this stuff. I just found it interesting. Here is what frustration and boredom lead to: I plugged in “Of all the romance retold” to an online anagram maker… and it spit out ‘Confederate Hall’.. with some other nonsensical, off-topic words to round out the puzzle. Big news? Probably not. It also gave other possibilities: ‘Reformatted, Theretofore, and Chloroform’… alright, not an exact method, but something new (to me anyway). I did this with the whole verse. The first three lines give us “Confederate Hall Fundamental Blunder” (and yes, the filler words) At best, that confirms Charleston, sort of. Later in the verse I got words like ‘Gallows, Workhorse, Exonerates, and Disembowels’. Not really a connection there. I also entered “Below the bar that binds” and got ‘Brainwashed’. Hmm... not sure where I was going with this. When I got to “Or May 1913” it seemed easy enough… ‘Mayor’. So, who was the Mayor of Charleston in 1913? John P. Grace. They later named a cantilever bridge after him which opened... On the 8th... of August. It was later paralleled by the Silas Pearman bridge. Ok, history lesson over. Some may think this was a waste of time. Maybe. But I’m ok with that. And, besides, an anagram for “Cantilever” is ‘Erect Anvil’… which just makes me chuckle. Not sure why. I’ll get some sleep and try again at a later time.

Hi, new to this site and to The Secret. I have been thinking that I2 is tied with V6. One of the big questions I have is - what is the significance of Byron using OR twice in the verse? Any ideas?

Re: Cooper of the wind and wave. The Pilot: A Tale of the Sea, was James Fenimore Cooper's first seafaring novel. I think this meshes better in the context of the "To the hesitating purchaser" intro of Treasure Island which also mentions another writer of tales, Robert Ballantyne, who wrote The Coral Island: A Tale of the Pacific Ocean.

davinci4 wrote:: “Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow” Just a thought here. Whichever geographic location you are considering (SF, Charleston, Montreal) for this verse, the lines here seem to specifically indicate the burial spot. What’s interesting is that there seems to be a ‘triangulated approach’ whereby all three criteria must be met. It also implies there is ambiguity if only one or two lines are true. For example, if you correctly locate the “bar that binds” there is probably more than one of “bars” in that spot. The correct “bar” is the one that is in the ‘shadow of the long palm’ and ‘between two arms.’ These two lines would seem superfluous otherwise. i already explained all this...

Hi, just found this site the other day. First of all I love all of the work that you have all done. I still have some reading to do. I have been doing a lot of research for Charleston. Something I have noted is that there are a lot of archaeology sites around and in the city. There is Charles Town Landing which is outside the city established in 1970. It is a possible idea because of the animal forest, the pond and two fountains and the fact that it was the first settlement. Then there is Marion Square because it is close to Gadsden's Wharf where all of the slaves were brought into the city after clearing quarantine on Sullivan's Island but there are remnants of the Horn Work located at the park which was the original guarded entry way into the city once they put a wall up for protection. Then there is White Point Garden as a possible choice but they recently did excavation there and found the original sea wall and battery. There have also been solutions that mention Fort Sumter and Fort Moultrie which are both protected sites as well. If we ever find a dig site do you think that we will be able to recover the casque in Charleston?

no. i already finished charleston. went and dug the spot (triangle shaped sand garden beside the fort sumter association building) and it was gone, disturbed by the hurricanes matthew in 1989 or hugo in 2006, or by the gardener who planted and/or removed the little palm visible on google maps but that was gone when i got there. so its gone. ive posted full map relating to treasure hunt explaining the succinct path, and the exact location portrayed in the image under the arms of the faery (where both the shadow that the palm tree makes and triangle shaped sand garden are located in the image).

Good to know Josh. Your dig site was in Hampton Park right? I guess I will move on to another one of Byron's verses.

Rebel1313 wrote:: Good to know Josh. Your dig site was in Hampton Park right? I guess I will move on to another one of Byron's verses. Hang on Rebel1313, keep in mind the only person who thinks Josh determined that solution is Josh...

Just a few thoughts here based on the Japanese hints (thanks for posting the audio). The hint regarding “May 1913” directs one to “your history book.” Preiss told him to find a historical event. I am having trouble with the DEDICATION of the USS Maine monument as a historical event. Not sure this would show up in a history book. The reference to the USS Maine should have been “January 1898”. I have also mentioned before that the “or” seems to bookend ideas. There is no connection to Edward Blyden and the USS Maine from a historical perspective. Edwin Booth/Actors Guild Edward Blyden/dedication of USS Maine monument Whichever one is correct, there is a tremendous coincidence regarding the other.

Rebel1313 wrote:: Good to know Josh. Your dig site was in Hampton Park right? I guess I will move on to another one of Byron's verses. no it was just outside white point gardens at the fort sumter association building, like i stated above...

@da vinci...as ive explained multiple times...this puzzle follows the path that the cannons take...so the reference that is referring to is this: https://cdnc.ucr.edu/cgi-bin/cdnc?a=d&d ... N--------1 you can confirm this in that both mark military/naval tragedies, as does the hunley monument and (what this is a direct reference to) the tale told on the sundial that is one of the two arms extended...

its a direct reference to the latter because both occurred during practice manoeuvres.

One other question. Is there any specific connection regarding Edward Blyden to White Point Garden?

davinci4 wrote:: One other question. Is there any specific connection regarding Edward Blyden to White Point Garden? Nope, there's nothing in Charleston at all that commemorates Blyden's one visit to the city. When I started looking into a possible I2/V6 connection last year, the only Blyden monument/memorial I could find was over in Liberia, where he served in that country's government after working in the Pan-African movement to repatriate slaves from the US.

by the way...i ABSOLUTELY confirmed my charleston spot as the correct location last night. so, if anyone had any doubts...they are now moot. the treasure is gone. Preiss had made charleston and roanoke the easiest because those treasures were at the most risk of being disturbed by weather...unfortunately...none of us made it to either in time...seems like we just missed an oppourtunity to get roanoke as well, as the damage done to the beach occurred over the past year...

My understanding was that the puzzles connected to precious stones like the diamond for April, Preiss made more difficult to find?

just look at the cuts of the diamond and you should know it's not the most valuable stone of all.

Rebel1313 wrote:: My understanding was that the puzzles connected to precious stones like the diamond for April, Preiss made more difficult to find? He said that in a newspaper jnterview while promoting the book On the other hand, dude didn't seem to be a good judge of puzzle difficulty.

drunknerds wrote:: On the other hand, dude didn't seem to be a good judge of puzzle difficulty.

JamesV wrote:: Nope, there's nothing in Charleston at all that commemorates Blyden's one visit to the city. When I started looking into a possible I2/V6 connection last year, the only Blyden monument/memorial I could find was over in Liberia, where he served in that country's government after working in the Pan-African movement to repatriate slaves from the US. Thanks Jamesv. After listening to the podcast and looking at the Wiki, other than a DEDICATION date of May 1913, are there any specific markers/phrases that match to White Point Garden? This location seems to have a majority option but still unclear why. No mention of Robert Louis Stevenson, Treasure Island etc. not to mention that the Japanese hint clearly referred to a historical event for May 1913 which is not the case for the White Point Gardens plaque. Still like Fort Moultrie solve since utilizes so many specific markers in that area.

i just answered this...

davinci4 wrote:: Thanks Jamesv. After listening to the podcast and looking at the Wiki, other than a DEDICATION date of May 1913, are there any specific markers/phrases that match to White Point Garden? Still like Fort Moultrie solve since utilizes so many specific markers in that area. If there are, I sure wasn't able to find any. When I joined in 2017 I actually started from I2/V6 myself, based on the majority opinion from the Wiki site, but then had to rule out that pairing b/c the accepted "matches" just seemed like they were stretches. The only *possible* connection I turned up was the fact that there are two streets named "Battery", which could possibly be seen as "Arms." If you extended these streets straight out on a street map, you could possibly draw a line to the sandy area on the other side of the retaining wall, next to the SC Historical Society building. (I think that was actually Josh's dig spot? Love your work JC!) In any case, the complete lack of other matches in Verse 6 led me to do my homework, which included reading all the old posts on Q4T. In the Image 2 and V5/V6 threads specifically, it was easy to see how the group's work was affected by both the "Abroad in America" google results, as well as the one-man takeover of the Wiki site.

I completely agree. Interestingly, the board has been particularly silent since the Japanese hints were translated. The two Abroad in America references don’t seem to coincide with hints given. Specifically, it was stated “don’t go looking in a library” for this book (regarding ‘palaces to shelter..”). The Edwin clue was more vague but why provide such a general reference to Charleston in the verses unless it was linked to a specific marker in White Point Gardens? There is far more specificity in SF (RLS fountain, Edwin Booth, Octavia) and Charleston (Lane 22, palmetto, Osceola marker etc). As a side note, of all the proposed solutions for any of the verses, your Fort Moultrie spot is the one I have the most confidence in. I do hope you find it someday.

davinci4 wrote:: I completely agree. Interestingly, the board has been particularly silent since the Japanese hints were translated. The two Abroad in America references don’t seem to coincide with hints given. Specifically, it was stated “don’t go looking in a library” for this book (regarding ‘palaces to shelter..”). The Edwin clue was more vague but why provide such a general reference to Charleston in the verses unless it was linked to a specific marker in White Point Gardens? There is far more specificity in SF (RLS fountain, Edwin Booth, Octavia) and Charleston (Lane 22, palmetto, Osceola marker etc). As a side note, of all the proposed solutions for any of the verses, your Fort Moultrie spot is the one I have the most confidence in. I do hope you find it someday. I think you need to qualify this post by saying that you are attributing the Verses differently than the generally accepted consensus, and then justifying your assertions base don translated clues which may or may not be correct. If I understand, you have Verse 6 in San Fransisco and Verse 5 in Charleston? Also, you are specifically in White Point Gardens in Charleston?

davinci4 wrote:: The two Abroad in America references interesting, maybe I missed this, can you show me what those references are?

davinci4 wrote:: Just a few thoughts here based on the Japanese hints (thanks for posting the audio). The hint regarding “May 1913” directs one to “your history book.” Yeah, DV4, listening to this cool hint made me lean even further towards the I1/V6 pairing. I've been thinking for a while about how Chinese immigration into San Francisco could relate to this puzzle, and how both "freedom at the turn of the century" and "or May 1913" might be referring to key dates in the formation of the Republic of China (now Taiwan). Tough to research further without boots on the ground in SF, though. Could there be any monuments in/around Chinatown to the 1900 Boxer Rebellion, or to Chinese premiers who served during that era? Or how about to Woodrow Wilson's official diplomatic recognition of the R.O.C. on May 2, 1913?

JamesV wrote:: Yeah, DV4, listening to this cool hint made me lean even further towards the I1/V6 pairing. I've been thinking for a while about how Chinese immigration into San Francisco could relate to this puzzle, and how both "freedom at the turn of the century" and "or May 1913" might be referring to key dates in the formation of the Republic of China (now Taiwan). Tough to research further without boots on the ground in SF, though. Could there be any monuments in/around Chinatown to the 1900 Boxer Rebellion, or to Chinese premiers who served during that era? Or how about to Woodrow Wilson's official diplomatic recognition of the R.O.C. on May 2, 1913? I like how you alter the Verse and history by making this "turn" at the birth of the century, or May 1913. And enforcing these lines to the Republic of China (Taiwan). But 1850-1900 were the years of Chinese immigration in America, that is why most native Chinese Americans here speaks Cantonese, very very very few speaks Mandarin. There's no such thing as monuments of or related to the Boxer Rebellion, not even in Taiwan, but someone did build a museum of some sort in China around 2003 I believe.

Yes. I have always paired V6 with SF (Lafayette Park) and V5 with Charleston (Fort Moultrie). The Japanese hints only have reaffirmed this believe. I would have to dig through the threads but I am still unclear as to how White Point Gardens was ‘discovered’ as a possible site. ‘May 1913’ seems to be the only clue that is site specific but hardly what I would call a ‘historical event.’ JamesV. Your references seem far more in line with significant events that occurred during that month (along with the formation of the Actors Guild). I really like the Chinese references for “freedom at the birth of a century” for Chinatown in SF.

why are so many people confused about where i dug? i dug in the TRIANGLE SHAPED SAND GARDEN BESIDE THE FORT SUMTER ASSOCIATION BUILDING WHICH IS LOCATED ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE SW CORNER OF WHITE POINT GARDENS...WITH THE SOUTH BATTERY BEING LOCATED ACROSS THE STREET TO THE SOUTH. just to clarify. lol this IS the endpoint of the treasure hunt, without question.

that building is of note cause its where JFK got honeypotted XD

Spiritr wrote:: I like how you alter the Verse and history by making this "turn" at the birth of the century, or May 1913. And enforcing these lines to the Republic of China (Taiwan). I guess I should clarify this idea a little, since I doubt Preiss would have seriously expected people to do a massive amount of research in order to solve these puzzles back in 1982. If we can accept the *theory* that the first five lines of V6 are all just indicators for the RL Stevenson monument in Portsmouth Square, then it's entirely possible that "Freedom at the birth of a century / Or May 1913" could just mean "China," point the way through Chinatown.

JamesV wrote:: I guess I should clarify this idea a little, since I doubt Preiss would have seriously expected people to do a massive amount of research in order to solve these puzzles back in 1982. ....................ok That's a great idea, your thinking enlighten me! I believe that's exact what Preiss was thinking, that's why he titled the book "The Secret", because he doesn't want people to know, or do any kind of research deep into history and stuffs. He just wanted to sell books. And after reading the Verse again at your perspective, I completely agree with you now, the first 5 lines and the birth of century is all about China, and Edwin & Edwina are of course Chinese names without any research, the next line is referring the Great Oct 8th of SF, Chinatown police station was built around that time. What's between the arms is obviously the Winged Dragon, Bar that binds is the famous Golden Dragon Restaurant combines a restaurant and at night it's a bar. And it's right below Coit Tower ( Long Palm's shadow), the casque was buried under the sand, waiting for us to find, in the closeby Washington Square. and look, sand~, that's it , right there!

Spiritr wrote:: the casque was buried under the sand, waiting for us to find, in the closeby Washington Square. and look, sand~, that's it , right there! Is that you, Josh?

Spiritr wrote:: and look, sand~, that's it , right there! Gosh I hope not, that playground gets pulled out every 10 years or so down to the cement under it. and replaced with more modern equipment.

LOL can't believe I actually got responses and pms from that brainless post sigh~

JoshCornell wrote:: why are so many people confused about where i dug? i dug in the TRIANGLE SHAPED SAND GARDEN BESIDE THE FORT SUMTER ASSOCIATION BUILDING WHICH IS LOCATED ACROSS THE STREET FROM THE SW CORNER OF WHITE POINT GARDENS...WITH THE SOUTH BATTERY BEING LOCATED ACROSS THE STREET TO THE SOUTH. just to clarify. lol this IS the endpoint of the treasure hunt, without question. Josh your convictions of your solves are admirable, ....to a degree. But I'm with GG here. I know your spot and completely disagree with it. Granted, I don't have the casque in my hands yet, but I haven't been able to probe or dig my spot yet. Fortunately, I'm working with a Charlestoner who will be able to check our ideas over the next few weeks. Then I'll know if I'm way off base like you.

MrBackstop wrote:: I don't have the casque in my hands yet meaning you will have it very soon?

MrBackstop wrote:: Josh your convictions of your solves are admirable, ....to a degree. But I'm with GG here. I know your spot and completely disagree with it. Granted, I don't have the casque in my hands yet, but I haven't been able to probe or dig my spot yet. Fortunately, I'm working with a Charlestoner who will be able to check our ideas over the next few weeks. Then I'll know if I'm way off base like you. uh. ok. i have two confirmations for both wpg generally and the triangle shaped sand garden specifically so i know 100% youre wrong lol...ive not released those yet...

good luck, but my spot is THE correct spot. its not disputable. its gone, washed out to sea, lost forever...but charleston rules.....go for for vegan at the gnome cafe. whereas there is still work to do on the overall puzzle for this one...the treasure hunt is complete. houston and nola are really the only outstanding ones. and its down to my spot or trav's spot (with my final dig spot at his location) in nola and i know exactly what to do to find the houston spot but on the ground is not going to be easy. whereas i may have just corroborated final location in st aug last week, there is still some room for dispute. all the rest are done as far as im concerned though there may be a few hidden steps in milwaukee (i havent worked through it past where we got) to discern exact dig location.

Goldengate wrote:: Sorry folks! Josh solved the puzzle (again). And while he hasn't found any of the casques, he's 100% right and we're 100% wrong and that's not disputable... because he said so. So there's the proof. Hunt's over. Nothing to see here. Everyone go home. It must be exhausting for him, I know it is for me...

For those looking in White Point Garden. It is surrounded by Battery, Murray and King. There are several monuments in the park and Oyster Point. Could someone provide a site specific marker other than the May 1913 dedication date that links White Point Garden to Verse 6? There are 19 lines in Verse 6, and, respectfully, I am not following how the group has arrived at this location.

bandstand, hunley monument, capstand, 51 east bay (down the st to the n), jasper statue, pirate monument, obelisk/cannon, and the plaque on the south battery down street to the west (in that order) lol...

just cause you dont want it to be solved, doesnt mean it hasnt been...if its gone its gone...theres nothing anyone can do about it at this point...such is reality. this one wasnt even very hard...at all. whereas i originally fell for the trick at first, i got it right as soon as i was there on the ground. he def made this one and roanoke easier than others because he knew they were at risk to weather...the puzzles tell us that.

Hi GoldenGate. Just curious where you stand on Verse 6. It’s hard not to believe the starting point isn’t Portsmouth Square in SF where there is water fountain dedicated to RLS with the ship from Treasure Island on top of it. I know you have explored SF extensively though, would love to hear your thoughts.

you cant just "say" im wrong you need to prove it, ive proved beyond reasonable doubt that my location is correct, though i havent revealed all that info to you...so i get your doubt (but it only proves you either havent looked at what ive done or dont know what youre doing yourself...soooo youre wrong. plain and simple...and youve offered up nothing but sh*ttalking in exchange. ive offered up loads. so blow.

JoshCornell wrote:: you cant just "say" im wrong you need to prove it, ive proved beyond reasonable doubt that my location is correct, Actually the burden of proof falls on those who make extraordinary claims. The only thing that will remove reasonable doubt is a physical find. As evidenced by the number of people still working on their own solutions, I don't think there are many people who think your solves are even slightly correct.

whats incorrect about it?

JoshCornell wrote:: whats incorrect about it? Only 1 thing , the fact that none of them lead to the location of where a casque was hidden.

thats not true the casqe was hidden there in charleston...its just gone cause of weather or gardener....probably weather.

that is one viable possibility you must acknowledge..whether you like it or not. beyond my control. beyond your control and beyond preiss' control. its just a reality. one thing that is 100% for sure: the treasure hunt leads right where i took you. beyond any reasonable doubt whatsoever...and even if you do have doubt. i have more evidence that moots that. so. yea. it is what it is...irretrievable. at least in this case...please offer a valid criticism if you actually have one...

https://www.diffen.com/difference/Hypothesis_vs_Theory A hypothesis is either a suggested explanation for an observable phenomenon, or a reasoned prediction of a possible causal correlation among multiple phenomena. In science, a theory is a tested, well-substantiated, unifying explanation for a set of verified, proven factors. A theory is always backed by evidence; a hypothesis is only a suggested possible outcome, and is testable and falsifiable. A casque without doubt would solidify a theory.

the casque is gone though, so...

Here's an analogy... Let's say some man dated a woman (One person's solve). Gradually, the woman gets larger in size, starts to vomit regulary and doesn't consume alcohol (Verse and Image Clues). The woman passes (Preiss passes) and is cremated (Casque "moved"), so it will never be known if she was pregnant and a paternity/DNA test cannot be performed. Can this man then rightfully say "I was going to be a father" (My solve is the only correct one) since the woman did not say she was pregnant (Preiss' secrets) or if he was the father? What if another man came forward and said he dated her around the same time too (Someone else's solve)? The first man may deeply feel it in his heart that he was, and rightfully the other man, but without empirical proof, we'll never know.

gqchu wrote:: but without empirical proof, we'll never know. ergo nobody can claim a solution just a theory.

JoshCornell wrote:: the casque is gone though, so... All you can actually say is... "The casque was not in my spot" and since that fact is true and obvious, you might think the complete lack of anybody stopping looking elsewhere might indicate how most people view your solve.

maltedfalcon wrote:: All you can actually say is... "The casque was not in my spot" and since that fact is true and obvious, you might think the complete lack of anybody stopping looking elsewhere might indicate how most people view your solve. So true.

Work was a little quiet this afternoon, so I spent some time Googling through parts of my in-progress I1/V6 theory for San Francisco. Specifically, this line: "Edwin and Edwina named after him." Now, all of the interpretations I've read so far (for both Charleston and San Francisco) have taken this line as meaning, two living people named Edwin and Edwina were literally namesakes to some mystery person. BUT, today I was considering that the verb " name " might possibly have a slightly different meaning here-- "to choose, select, pick, nominate, or designate". So, I'm still assuming that we'd start the hunt for the SF casque from the Robert Louis Stevenson monument in Portsmouth Square. Nearby, it looks like there's a Grant Avenue which runs towards Union Square, a possible dig location that I discussed earlier in the thread. Grant Avenue was named after General (later President) Ulysses S. Grant-- and according to that endless font of knowledge, Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_S._Grant ), when Grant stepped down as Secretary of War in 1868, a Mr. Edwin Stanton was "named" to succeed him. I've still got no clue where the "Edwina" might have come from, but thought I'd throw this idea out there in case it helps spur some creative thinking. Happy New Year, everyone!

Edwin and Edwina named after him Simple way of looking at that sentence is that people named their kids after HIM. So HIS name is Edwin. Obviously if the kid is a girl then she would be named Edwina after Edwin. Hubble is a person of interest.

Sir WINston Churchill had a grand daughter named EdWINa....maybe we should be looking at Win instead of Ed????

MERLIN wrote:: Sir WINston Churchill had a grand daughter named EdWINa....maybe we should be looking at Win instead of Ed???? Or ead or wynn or wine. WWI

JamesV wrote:: Work was a little quiet this afternoon, so I spent some time Googling through parts of my in-progress I1/V6 theory for San Francisco. Specifically, this line: "Edwin and Edwina named after him." Now, all of the interpretations I've read so far (for both Charleston and San Francisco) have taken this line as meaning, two living people named Edwin and Edwina were literally namesakes to some mystery person. BUT, today I was considering that the verb " name " might possibly have a slightly different meaning here-- "to choose, select, pick, nominate, or designate". So, I'm still assuming that we'd start the hunt for the SF casque from the Robert Louis Stevenson monument in Portsmouth Square. Nearby, it looks like there's a Grant Avenue which runs towards Union Square, a possible dig location that I discussed earlier in the thread. Grant Avenue was named after General (later President) Ulysses S. Grant-- and according to that endless font of knowledge, Wikipedia ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ulysses_S._Grant ), when Grant stepped down as Secretary of War in 1868, a Mr. Edwin Stanton was "named" to succeed him. I've still got no clue where the "Edwina" might have come from, but thought I'd throw this idea out there in case it helps spur some creative thinking. Happy New Year, everyone! funny should would mention Edwin Stanton, the name that organized the hunt for John Booth... and John's brother Edwin, names his daughter Edwin, and he was named after Edwin Forrest, a shakspearian actor, ...but who knows...

jeep_jeep_nc82 wrote:: funny should would mention Edwin Stanton, the name that organized the hunt for John Booth... and John's brother Edwin, names his daughter Edwin, and he was named after Edwin Forrest, a shakspearian actor, ...but who knows... Huh, I wasn't aware of the Stanton/Booth connection. Weird, especially considering WhiteRabbit's observation about Edwin Booth's name on the side of the old California Theater at 444 Bush Street... also right around the corner from Grant Ave.

Well, booth's could be the "named after ..even though Edwin booth was named after Edwin Forrest, and Ewdina was named after Edwin booth,..Edwina had a son whom she named Edwin after her father.

I'm still digging through a possible I1/V6 route from the RLS monument, moving to a final dig spot beneath the Dewey Monument in Union Square. I'd never found a clear meaning for a couple V6 lines, so I thought I'd take a stab at them this weekend. For "Hear the cool, clear song of water" I stumbled across this interesting fact today. The sea goddess Mazu ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazu ) was thought to have originated during China's Song dynasty ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_dynasty ). San Francisco has at least a couple Taoist temples dedicated to Mazu/Mat-su. This one ( hxxp://www.matsuusa.org ) was actually located on Grant Street until 1996 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma-Tsu_Te ... California )), which looks like it would have been right along a straight-line walking path through Chinatown. I don't suppose anyone has any thoughts on that whole "Listen to the birds" bit? Maybe an old-school Chinese poultry market or something?

JamesV wrote:: I'm still digging through a possible I1/V6 route from the RLS monument, moving to a final dig spot beneath the Dewey Monument in Union Square. I'd never found a clear meaning for a couple V6 lines, so I thought I'd take a stab at them this weekend. For "Hear the cool, clear song of water" I stumbled across this interesting fact today. The sea goddess Mazu ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazu ) was thought to have originated during China's Song dynasty ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_dynasty ). San Francisco has at least a couple Taoist temples dedicated to Mazu/Mat-su. This one ( hxxp://www.matsuusa.org ) was actually located on Grant Street until 1996 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma-Tsu_Te ... California )), which looks like it would have been right along a straight-line walking path through Chinatown. I don't suppose anyone has any thoughts on that whole "Listen to the birds" bit? Maybe an old-school Chinese poultry market or something? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma-Tsu_Temple_(San_Francisco,_California) "Founded in 1986, it is dedicated to..." hxxp://www.matsuusa.org/indexE "On September 13, 1986, Ma-Tsu Temple of San Francisco officially opened its doors to the public." Both Wikipedia and the temple's own site state that it didn't exist until '86, no matter where it was originally located. If you're following this train of thought, then maybe one of the other Taoist temples you mentioned would fit better with the publication date of the book / estimated year of when the casques were buried?

I mentioned "The Fountain" that has the same shape as the pearl's shadow on I1 thread ad nauseum. It's a block away from Maiden Lane and Union Square. An old silent movie from 1913, "The Rose of May", a love story, romance, magic, and a struggling publisher. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&p=148729&hilit=fountain#p148729 https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1159694/

JamesV wrote:: I'm still digging through a possible I1/V6 route from the RLS monument, moving to a final dig spot beneath the Dewey Monument in Union Square. I'd never found a clear meaning for a couple V6 lines, so I thought I'd take a stab at them this weekend. For "Hear the cool, clear song of water" I stumbled across this interesting fact today. The sea goddess Mazu ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mazu ) was thought to have originated during China's Song dynasty ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Song_dynasty ). San Francisco has at least a couple Taoist temples dedicated to Mazu/Mat-su. This one ( hxxp://www.matsuusa.org ) was actually located on Grant Street until 1996 ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ma-Tsu_Te ... California )), which looks like it would have been right along a straight-line walking path through Chinatown. I don't suppose anyone has any thoughts on that whole "Listen to the birds" bit? Maybe an old-school Chinese poultry market or something? James, I have the line "Hear the cool, clear song of water" as being a reference to the Star Spangled Banner.

Mister EZ wrote:: "Founded in 1986, it is dedicated to..." Good catch, thanks! I must've been channeling my inner Josh Cornell, thinking that maybe BP could have known where the temple was going to be built...

Poking around some more, it looks like the Tin How temple ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tin_How_Temple ) is also dedicated to Mazu. That one's on Waverly Place, only a block over from Grant Ave... and it was founded in 1852, a solid 130 years before The Secret was published. I'm still not able to connect the dots any further, but hopefully these ideas might convince some open-minded SF searcher to do a walk-through of the area.

Poseidon was god of the sea. The victory on top of the Dewey monument holds his Trident. So I guess you can call her the goddess of the sea. She's also a victory without wings. So She's a wingless bird.

Everyone's a critic

drunknerds wrote:: ...Not enough people have adhered to the rules of the original two casques and the research done on Q4T ... The methods for the found casks clearly show that having boots-on-the-ground images is key to solving the puzzles, yet rarely does someone go out and take a bunch of pictures of little-seen areas near where image matches abound. What is between the utility box and the freeway in 2C Charlesgate? Where do the tall palm trees/statue palms shadows fall at 4 PM in White Point Gardens in the appropriate month? To this day I have no idea what is between the Elizabethan Gardens and the crumbled gate. Rather than build off the decades-long work of others, people have dismissed it and tried to solve the puzzle using Google Streetview, even though to this day that wouldn't work for Chicago... Drunknerds comment from another thread: hxxp://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=4080#p152145 Re: "Beside the long palm's shadow": At the risk of appearing to ignore Drunknerd's entire point about not engaging in ''remote searching' here is a tool to get the general gist of a shadow's direction, etc for any given location for any day and time you'd like to test. https://www.findmyshadow.com/ Pinpoint the exact location using the map, upload overhead if desired, enter day and time specifics, use tool to set dimensions (height, etc) of the object. Here are some examples attempting to chase down a thought about shadow direction (and approximately where/which way they would "point" - thus the exaggerated height). Using the flagpole at WPG to test. For all dates, time is set to 4 PM. To Drunknerd's point, this site can maybe help test a theory or give you a basic idea of shadow direction without having to wait until Dec 1, then physically be there in Charleston at 4 PM to find out. But is not going to give you a reliable dig spot...

long palm https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/w ... C_4483.jpg

MERLIN wrote:: long palm https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/w ... C_4483.jpg Did you find edwin/edwina connection? William McKinley Edward Baker

MERLIN wrote:: long palm https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/w ... C_4483.jpg That almost looks more like a feather to me.

fox wrote:: That almost looks more like a feather to me. https://hoodline.com/2014/04/the-histor ... y-monument

MERLIN wrote:: https://hoodline.com/2014/04/the-histor ... y-monument My apologies. Thanks for that link!

I'm still stubbornly pursuing an I1/V6 pairing leading towards Union Square, with a specific focus on any possible Chinese references within V6. I just finished Paul French's great true crime story "Midnight in Peking", which set me digging a little deeper into Chinese history. Thanks to our friends at Wikipedia for this clue: On May 2, 1913 (Friday). The United States recognized the government of the new Chinese republic, with American Chargé d'Affaires Edward T. Williams presenting U.S. President Wilson's message to Chinese President Yuan Shihkai. As the first world leader to give recognition to the Republic of China, Wilson acted without prior notice even to the U.S. Congress. " I'm curious if this might be what was meant by the mysterious "Or May 1913" line? After retiring from the Foreign Service, CDA Williams apparently settled in California and taught at UC Berkeley. I did a few Google searches, but couldn't find any obvious plaques, monuments, etc. dedicated to either Williams or the diplomatic recognition. If this hunch is correct, it may also just be another general reference towards China/Taiwan.

There's a statue of Yuan Shikai's predecessor in Chinatown. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat-sen

Choice wrote:: There's a statue of Yuan Shikai's predecessor in Chinatown. Sun Yat-sen? Yeah, I think it was WhiteRabbit who pointed out how the female in Image 1 also bore a resemblance to that other statue of Sun Yat-sen, located in St. Mary's Square.

This is a bit of stretch but one of the rarest US coins is the Eliasberg Liberty Head Nickel or V Cents. One recently sold for $4.5M. Back to the liberty on the Dewey monument.

BTW if you're looking for a white house in Chinatown look on top of the Stockton tunnel, by the california cable car route. 600 Stockton used to be Cogswell college, now Ritz-Carlton. hxxp://tinyurl.com/yy464acc

JamesV wrote:: Sun Yat-sen? Yeah, I think it was WhiteRabbit who pointed out how the female in Image 1 also bore a resemblance to that other statue of Sun Yat-sen, located in St. Mary's Square. What other Sun Yat-Sen statue? The only one I know of is in St. Mary's.

MERLIN wrote:: https://hoodline.com/2014/04/the-histor ... y-monument The McKinley monument is also called Justice.

She's The Republic not justice. However: Aitken was a famed San Franciscan sculptor at the turn of the 20th century, who created some of the most iconic works in American sculpture. His magnum opus decorates the Supreme Court Building in Washington D.C.: the West pediment depicting Lady Liberty under the inscription “Equal Justice Under Law.” BTW White house to her left hand. Notice the arched stone door. hxxp://tinyurl.com/y2dxtmd2 Wide shot: hxxp://tinyurl.com/y2cyrwx7 The Republic, Shadow of the long palm: hxxp://tinyurl.com/y54rh52l https://www.roadsideamerica.com/story/32289 Morning sun would cast shade of the palm leaf to the back of the statue.

So I was reading an old article about The Secret on some random website and decided to sift through the user comments at the bottom and ran across one that had some information I have never seen before. They referenced Image 2 with Verse 6 in regards to a spot in the French Quarter known as The Dock Theatre in Charleston SC. I thought I would snoop around and see if there was anything that looked promising, since this was way off anything I had ever heard. After doing some research, I found this Theatre has a super rich history. That lead me to find an old book called "THIRTY YEARS PASSED AMONG THE PLAYERS IN ENGLAND AND AMERICA: INTERSPERSED WITH ANECDOTES AND REMINISCENCES OF A VARIETY OF PERSONS, DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY CONNECTED WITH THE DRAMA DURING THE THEATRICAL LIFE OF JOE COWELL, COMEDIAN." Text is here: https://archive.org/stream/thirtyyearspasse00cowe/thirtyyearspasse00cowe_djvu.txt After reading a bit of it and doing some keyword searches, a lot of things about Image 2 started to ring true. It talks about a lion. It talks about Washington Square (although the one in NY), it speaks of Yew-trees (Google the Yew tree Fairy and also a picture of a yew tree which looks like the branch in I2), it references Diamonds, John Wilkes Booth, a famous actor named Edwin Forrest, the date of September the 8th (on the eighth a scene), speaks of the law a lot, speaks to slavery and cruelty of oppression, etc. etc. etc. Not saying this is something, but it is interesting and worth a look. Regards, Mac

Need to give credit where it is due. After reviewing this entire thread again, Egbert briefly mentions the Dock Street Theatre in a very early post. But the book has a lot of coincidences and I dont believe in coinicendence, at least not that many. Regards, Mac