Verse 9

Q4T
Visit The Secret Wiki.

Re: Verse 9

Postby WhiteRabbit » Fri Mar 25, 2011 9:02 am

...yep, clear visual clues seem to be lacking in most of these images. Egbert and Shadowrunner had it easy.  ;)

More brainstorming on this area.

I don't know how old that motel is, but it looks like it might have a fragment of green picket fence as well.

Image

Turning on the spot...

Image

From right to left, cannon, red hydrant, wall pillar.

The wall has a distinctive curving shape which is perhaps echoed in the rock and clouds of the image.

Image

(Wondered about the base of one of the dividing pillars as another possible spot...might be worth counting them down from the main entrance perhaps. Considered the hydrant because of the fountain/rain theme. Looking down it might suggest the "monument" shape on the flag.)

Image


By the cannon, the wall bends in and the verge opens out into this area:

Image


Here's the other side of that signpost shown above, with a very dodgy 20 in the flag:

Image

I'm wondering if the place where Ponce de Leon has planted his flag might be an indicator. There's also this pole opposite the motel...not sure exactly what it is, maybe a telegraph pole or lamp...

Image

The cannon is still my favourite...it's just tricky to pinpoint a location there. Maybe there's a detail in the iron railings beside it shown above. The back of a cannon is also called a "cascabel".

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cascabel

(Since this is a Spanish name for a rattlesnake...also small bell / rattle / chilies...I was going to look for any of those hiding in the pic. I also suspect the horse is hiding something...I'm not aware it's been accounted for yet...? Cascabel seems to be a sleigh-bell. Perhaps the horse's cannon bone.)

BP did seem to like that salt cellar, with the repeated suggestion of "silver salt" towards the end of the verse. "Casque", which appears on its sign, and "cascabel", are both thought to be derived from "quassicare", to shake.

http://roots.jrobertsons.com/roots/etym ... 45533.html

Image

http://www.travellerspoint.com/photos/s ... orderByID/

There's another etymological trail for cask/barrel, which gives us gun barrel...

http://www.jstor.org/pss/2909254

Here's a statue of Ponce de Leon "created in New York in 1882 using bronze collected from English canons that were salvaged when the English attacked San Juan in 1792"

http://www.puertorico.com/sights/statue-ponce-de-leon/

It's in San Juan where his tomb is, though there's a replica in Saint Augustine (beside the Bridge of Lions, which takes us back to Milwaukee).

http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=19432
Last edited by Anonymous on Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
WhiteRabbit
Adler
Adler
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:59 pm

Re: Verse 9

Postby WhiteRabbit » Fri Mar 25, 2011 4:10 pm

More on that cannon bone:

"Easily the most crucial bone in a horse's anatomy, the cannon bone is exposed to the greatest amount of stress when a horse is being worked hard. On a horse there isn't a very big support system around the cannon bone. The cannon bone is the large bone in the lower leg which runs from the knee down to the ankle. Its only support comes from the tendons linking it to the knee and ankle bones and a covering of skin. There are no muscles linked to the cannon bone. Hence it is crucial for the horse to have a well developed strong cannon bone to support its large frame."

http://www.helium.com/items/617422-hors ... annon-bone
User avatar
WhiteRabbit
Adler
Adler
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:59 pm

Re: Verse 9

Postby cobock1 » Sat Mar 26, 2011 2:21 am

There you go! Good find. I had considered the hydrant for the rain/water reference, but dismissed it. But looking at that hydrant from the top it is unmistakably similar to the image on the flag. I was still assuming that the image on the flag must be indicating the obelisk marker in the FOY park, but  I don't know how right that is. Its definitely one of the only obviously unusual shapes in the painting. The two that have been solved had these types of unusual shapes in them. In the Grant Park one there is the image of the the fence posts that showed where to dig. Why couldn't the clue in this image lead us to an area with a fire hydrant? I'm glad there is someone else looking outside of the box, or the FOY park. In the newspaper article about the first casque that was found it says that BP went into grant park early in the morning dressed like a worker, or something. I doubt he went into the FOY park during the day and started digging, and I doubt he hopped the fence during the evening or early morning. This was a privately owned attraction even in the 70s and 80s. That's why I've always had a hard time swallowing the idea that it's buried in FOY, but right outside of it, in an area like this. I'd believe that.
User avatar
cobock1
Watcher
Watcher
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:01 am
Location: Gainesville, FL

Re: Verse 9

Postby slappybuns » Sat Mar 26, 2011 10:07 am

don't forget the planetarium looks like that from above too!  
the obelisk:
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM42 ... gustine_FL

from stercox's album:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/21 ... 0493ZorICN
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/23 ... 0493xCgZsF
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/20 ... 0493jDJLJh
he has this pole right at the ticket booth which is near the train station and the parking lot...honking?
the shape of the squiggly lines under the gem in the image?:
the duck and goose pond----------this looks like the squiggly lines
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/25 ... 0493ONVRAt
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/22 ... 0493AmpdBy
or these:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/26 ... 0493hMaSmh
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 0493izKsqH
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/20 ... 0493qzPJfr
doesn't this look like the tree?
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/23 ... 0493RnGzaK
isn't Easter decided by the moon? and the tears "Jesus wept"
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 0493yoQUBE
but it looks like ponce has a circle and a square too, and a pole:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 0493OYLOoL
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/22 ... 0493zsQoic
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/25 ... 0493fGFMhb
stercox's map with the green picket fences:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 0493UGsSsv
looks like the seloy marker and springhouse  are straight up from the parking lot and the green picket fence, right around there
which would make sense for "years pass, rain falls", close to the real fountain of youth
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/23 ... 0493BNCqVC
also wanted to mention these urns, as they mention 300 years and they catch the rain fall, plus keats'grave "written in water" and he wrote "ode to a grecian urn"
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/28 ... 0493ZSVEDk
guess i shoulda just said check out stercox's album  :)
Last edited by slappybuns on Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
slappybuns
Watson
Watson
 
Posts: 892
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:31 am

Re: Verse 9

Postby WhiteRabbit » Sat Mar 26, 2011 1:06 pm

Just a follow-up thought on the horse. The bell-shape or cascabel at the back of a cannon is for attaching ropes (to control the recoil), which drew my attention to the horse's muzzle.

Image

Here's the hydrant and cannon:

Image

If we say the flag circle is the hydrant, and the horse's muzzle is the cannon, that might put the casque (which means "helmet") by the wall. (It has a Sapphire glint to it.)

Image

Here's another pic of the wall to illustrate what I meant about the curving shape being suggested in different parts of this image.

Image

I like the idea of one of those separating pillars as it would provide a precise spot. Midway between the cannon and the hydrant as shown above looks like the last one. Needs more corroboration though.

Image

Wall peaks represented by facial features. Below the eyebrow...? Brow of a hill...?

There's a kind of parallel in the position of the flag symbol relative to the face.

Image

I currently interpret all this as a close-up clue for the wall though.

The Hadas of Iberia
Sapphire, shy as a wild field flower


Image

(Those two final green stems, under the final rocky bump, at the bottom right of the pic, right of the cross shown above. An 11...? 11 pillars...? Or perhaps suggesting the shape of the dividing column; example shown below it.)

Over the tall grass
Years pass, rain falls


The last line has been interpreted as a cryptic reference to FOY. (Youth being the years that pass, the fountain the rain that falls.)

Taking the grassy wall in the image as the outside of FOY, then FOY lies over the tall grass; over the wall.
Last edited by Anonymous on Sat Mar 26, 2011 7:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
WhiteRabbit
Adler
Adler
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:59 pm

Re: Verse 9

Postby slappybuns » Sat Mar 26, 2011 4:13 pm

the image (the whole image 6) is the same shape as the park
so where the gem is in the image, shouldn't that be where it is in the park?
so if the flag is the obelisk, you'd go straight down to it (the gem), (i think)
image 6--same shape as this (the whole thing):

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 0493UGsSsv

looking closely at the image, i  see  two ducks slanted diagonally to the right, right above the gem, do you guys see it? i really really do see ducks
i see two brown ducks right above the gem  and to the right, i see beaks and everything, and normally i wouldn't have said i see stuff in the rocks, except that the duck pond is close to the seloy marker and those squiggly lines under the gem look like the duck pond!

http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/25 ... 0493ONVRAt

i can't upload any pics, it always says "upload folder is full"..........:(
Last edited by slappybuns on Sat Mar 26, 2011 5:08 pm, edited 1 time in total.
slappybuns
Watson
Watson
 
Posts: 892
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:31 am

Re: Verse 9

Postby WhiteRabbit » Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:43 pm

maltedfalcon wrote:...walls in St. Augustine, FL are made of crushed oyster shells and the mortar was made of salt, water and lime...


I've only just caught up with these oyster-wall clues. (Thought the texture looked odd but hadn't realised what it was.)

Like moonlight in teardrops

"Ancient stories tell of how the Arabs had a superstition that pearls are dewdrops filled with moonlight, which fall into the sea and are swallowed by the oysters."

http://hubpages.com/hub/Dew-Drops-Filled-With-Moonlight

"The wall itself captured my attention. Short on natural building supplies, and long on oysters, the original streets of St Augustine and many fences were created from oyster shells - and known as Taby. The textured background is from the wall by the Fountain of Youth, thickly encrusted with the shells."

http://www.thelensflare.com/gallery/p_t ... _36487.php
Last edited by Anonymous on Sat Mar 26, 2011 9:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
WhiteRabbit
Adler
Adler
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:59 pm

Re: Verse 9

Postby slappybuns » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:59 am

u mentioning those last two flowers as 11 made me think of the address to FOY  11 magnolia street (which aren't magnolias, but oak trees).
but also, one of stercox's pictures showed the door to the springhouse with one of the flowers.
slappybuns
Watson
Watson
 
Posts: 892
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:31 am

Re: Verse 9

Postby WhiteRabbit » Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:08 pm

slappybuns wrote:u mentioning those last two flowers as 11 made me think of the address to FOY  11 magnolia street


Ah, OK. I like that.

(I've been trying to count the total number of those dividing pillars in the wall but it's tricky to do via Google maps.)
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Mar 28, 2011 12:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
WhiteRabbit
Adler
Adler
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:59 pm

Re: Verse 9

Postby cobock1 » Mon Mar 28, 2011 6:04 pm

I'll count those pillars for you when I find the time to get to st. augustine one of these weekends. Slappy, trust me. I've got Stercox's entire album saved to hardrive and printed out in hardcopy. There are plenty of references to the park, I'm just looking for more concrete images in the painting that JJP would have put in there from photographs given to him of the area by BP. There are several spots within the park I think it could be. But I'd like to look right outside the park a little bit too as, like I have said several times on here over the past several years, I'm not convinced that BP would have buried the casque directly in the FOY park, even if security may have been a little lacking 30 years ago (or now).

Obviously he was pointing to the park. The shape of the park is also the rough shape of the rock in the painting. Remember, JJP would have like copy of a Map to go on when painting, not google earth. With that in mind it is just as fair of an assumption to assume that the location of the jewel in the rock represents the casque location as anything else. I have followed that way of thinking on one of my earlier visits to collect pictures and investigate, but it still restricts us to the park. I need to get a new album up with my pics. Not sure if my Flickr still has my FOY photos.

Also, that flower is likely the aster. It grows in the tall grasses that make up the Salt Marshes of florida. It is also the state flower and the birth flower of the 9th month of the year. The saphire is also the birth gem of september. I have also mentioned this before in the thread.

BP and JJP seem to have doen this in each of the pictures though. But as far as I know no one has come up with a convincing reason for the connection yet. Months, flowers, gems. Was that BPs way of having fun with us or is there a greater meaning to each individual picture/verse combination.
User avatar
cobock1
Watcher
Watcher
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:01 am
Location: Gainesville, FL

Re: Verse 9

Postby slappybuns » Mon Mar 28, 2011 7:37 pm

:) cobock :)

i just get excited when someone is going hunting, and just want to refresh with all the good stuff in these threads.  maybe something we say, if we say it a little differently  will hit you when u get there.  i just want you to find one. 

i would be really scared to go digging in the park, and it would be great if it was outside the wall (by the planetarium :)  ).........but if it isn't (just in case)....maybe by the duck pond
i really have been outlining so many ducks in this image, but i can't upload anything for some reason (will message cthree later and see if she can help)
i would like for you to see them and also keep in mind those tinajones urns, because it mentions "years"  and "rainfall"  and some are shaped like teardrops, ok?

scroll down til after the seloy marker for the teardrop urn:
http://buddventures.blogspot.com/2008_0 ... chive.html
http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/4114310140/
and the squiggly lines at the duck pond:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pritheworld/4712226344/

i'm just afraid it is inside the park :(       
but maybe not, maybe that line about "reflection in a passing limo"  means the parking lot  (and the honking)
hoping for the best!
slappybuns
Watson
Watson
 
Posts: 892
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:31 am

Re: Verse 9

Postby WhiteRabbit » Mon Mar 28, 2011 9:53 pm

cobock1 wrote:Also, that flower is likely the aster. It grows in the tall grasses that make up the Salt Marshes of florida. It is also the state flower and the birth flower of the 9th month of the year. The saphire is also the birth gem of september. I have also mentioned this before in the thread. BP and JJP seem to have doen this in each of the pictures though. But as far as I know no one has come up with a convincing reason for the connection yet. Months, flowers, gems. Was that BPs way of having fun with us or is there a greater meaning to each individual picture/verse combination.


Good question. I'm sure these have a place in the puzzles, such as helping to match images/verses/places. By cross-referencing the gems/flowers/months in the images with the litany, you can also find a nationality of course. And although there's a few muddled references in there (like the blue "amethyst" in the Milwaukee pic) it seems to have been a fairly reliable guide.

(These suggestions are just speculative until a casque is found, but for instance, Marigold, Mary's Gold, ties in with City of Mary for Montreal, as do the Dutch. Gladiolus ties in with gladiator/Roman coliseum for Boston, and the library where the trail starts is Italianate. Chrysanthemum seems to go with with the suggested image of the Chrysler building in image 12. Jackson of New Orleans' Jackson Square connects with the mechanical Turk, Turkey lending its name to Turquoise, and "New Orleans" comes from the French, etc.)

Since the gem and flower are determined by the month, I wouldn't necessarily expect all three to be relevant to a particular puzzle, but I would imagine that at least one of them would crop up somewhere.

Is the aster the state flower of Florida...? I can only find orange blossom, though if the aster is/was also known as the state flower that would be enough to account for it.

The Sapphire in the image seems to have a definite six-pointed star in it.

"A star sapphire is a type of sapphire that exhibits a star-like phenomenon known as asterism. Star sapphires contain intersecting needle-like inclusions (often the mineral rutile, a mineral composed primarily of titanium dioxide) that cause the appearance of a six-rayed star-shaped pattern when viewed with a single overhead light source."

Image

Aster, the flower, also means star, and the verse has the line: "Stars move by day". The litany identifies the Sapphire as the Spanish gem. So for instance, in this case the month/star/flower attribution could be a pointer that this verse and image are the Spanish puzzle. Also ties in with the planetarium clue.
Last edited by Anonymous on Mon Mar 28, 2011 10:23 pm, edited 1 time in total.
User avatar
WhiteRabbit
Adler
Adler
 
Posts: 1608
Joined: Sat Sep 29, 2001 1:59 pm

Re: Verse 9

Postby shecrab » Tue Mar 29, 2011 2:27 am

You are forgetting the two solves.
The flower in Image 4, the Cleveland solve, is a daffodil. The casque was found in the Greek cultural gardens. Daffodils are not "associated" with Greece in any particular way, nor with Cleveland in any way, nor is GREECE associated in more than a peripheral way with Cleveland. Unless your system is consistent, it's not likely that it's valid.

You can say the same thing about the Chicago solve. The emerald is associated with Ireland, and Chicago does have a large Irish heritage--but it's not the first thing anyone thinks of when they think of the Irish in America. And what either Ireland or emeralds would have to do with Lily-of-the-Valley, I can't even begin to surmise.

Whiterabbit, please don't take offense at this--it's not meant to be a criticism--but you seem to take great delight in drawing parallels between things that may or may not need parallels drawn between them. Most of your associations are very broad-based. There's nothing wrong with brainstorming, but none of these broad similarities are leading anywhere. I haven't said anything up until now, because I kept waiting for your methods to reap some  reward--but I don't think you're getting anywhere we haven't already been.

I'm not saying you should stop, but perhaps a little more hard research on those things we've already ferretted out might be more helpful. There really is little doubt that the location suggested by image 2 is Charleston, or the one in Image 3 is Roanoke Island, 7 is New Orleans, 8 is Houston, 10 is Milwaukee, 12 New York. Very solid confirmers have been uncovered for these images and they match the type of solid confirmers in the two that were solved. In the Cleveland image, the big 'confirmer' was the silhouette of the Terminal Tower. In Chicago's image, it was the water tower. In other images, there are definite pieces that point to definite locations--things that have already been found. The same can be said of some of the verses. Houston's verse (1) describes the location as the Children's Zoo fairly accurately. There seems to be no real reason to continue to search for that one, since the entire zoo has been bulldozed over; it will probably never be found now. That doesn't mean it's somewhere else.

As I said, I'm not criticising but there's a lot of hair-splitting lately. Maybe stepping back to see a bigger picture (so to speak) wouldn't be amiss.
"The telephone book is full of facts, but it doesn't contain a single idea." -- Mortimer Adler
User avatar
shecrab
Adler
Adler
 
Posts: 1040
Joined: Wed Dec 27, 2006 11:50 pm
Location: Ohio

Re: Verse 9

Postby cobock1 » Tue Mar 29, 2011 4:12 am

shecrab wrote:As I said, I'm not criticising but there's a lot of hair-splitting lately. Maybe stepping back to see a bigger picture (so to speak) wouldn't be amiss.


:app)
User avatar
cobock1
Watcher
Watcher
 
Posts: 40
Joined: Fri Mar 28, 2008 4:01 am
Location: Gainesville, FL

Re: Verse 9

Postby slappybuns » Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:18 am

but guys, whiterabbit said the same thing  by matching the  "flower/month/gem"  with the litany, she just says it longer  :)
but that's a good thing, she makes me look at things differently. isn't that what we need?!  
and sometimes she follows a path that we haven't been down.  she does a lot more research than i do, mine is so cursory i know i'm missing things.  
seems to me now, we need to take that piece of land that whiterabbit found matched the coast line and angle it and reflect it or mirror it til we can aim it to where it would be in the park or street maybe near those checkered bricks whiterabbit found  
if someone has the skills to do that please post it okay!
and she made me look again at the gem, since that is all that is definite inside the park shape (besides my ducks, lol ) and the flowers and green picket fence.  so now i have to go back thru stercox's album.  it is reminding me of the door at the springhouse.  

and look at this star shape in front of the springhouse:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/26 ... 0493HtpUoy
and the flower at the planetarium:
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 0493XpyyYL
Last edited by slappybuns on Tue Mar 29, 2011 11:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
slappybuns
Watson
Watson
 
Posts: 892
Joined: Sat Dec 08, 2007 11:31 am

PreviousNext

Return to The Secret

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 4 guests