verse 10

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Re: verse 10

Postby gManTexas » Mon Jul 22, 2019 1:04 pm

davinci4 wrote:I think it’s worth having the discussion of what the v could represent. In the context of this puzzle, I would argue (and see if others agree) this is your ‘site specific clue’ I.e. your “10 x 13” or “beneath the 10th stone.” This clue only makes sense after you have identified the correct site location.

I have mentioned previously, the v would seemingly have to be something ‘large’ in scale. Going to the middle of one branch would seem superfluous if it was say a Roman numeral V inscribed on a monument. Then we are told to walk 22 steps. I can only visualize a path in a park, but may be it’s a retaining stone wall. What else? Thoughts?


This has been discussed before, but giving steps or paces is a terrible clue due to variations in stride length. It is my sincere hope that the steps are referring to actual steps on a staircase, or more generally city blocks, subway stops, windows in a building, columns, or other well defined increments of some type of object. The other way this works is if you terminate at a physical location or barrier of sorts, so we can rationalize that it may be 22 walking steps for an average person.
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Re: verse 10

Postby Kang » Mon Jul 22, 2019 2:07 pm

gManTexas wrote:
davinci4 wrote:I think it’s worth having the discussion of what the v could represent. In the context of this puzzle, I would argue (and see if others agree) this is your ‘site specific clue’ I.e. your “10 x 13” or “beneath the 10th stone.” This clue only makes sense after you have identified the correct site location.

I have mentioned previously, the v would seemingly have to be something ‘large’ in scale. Going to the middle of one branch would seem superfluous if it was say a Roman numeral V inscribed on a monument. Then we are told to walk 22 steps. I can only visualize a path in a park, but may be it’s a retaining stone wall. What else? Thoughts?


This has been discussed before, but giving steps or paces is a terrible clue due to variations in stride length. It is my sincere hope that the steps are referring to actual steps on a staircase, or more generally city blocks, subway stops, windows in a building, columns, or other well defined increments of some type of object. The other way this works is if you terminate at a physical location or barrier of sorts, so we can rationalize that it may be 22 walking steps for an average person.

If the 22 steps line of the verse were meant to give the searcher a precise 1'x1' dig spot, agree that would be a terrible way to do it. And Gman lists several alternate interpretations which might make it a better clue. I'd like to throw out one other idea.

If "steps" are paces and are leading you toward a dig spot, perhaps it was never meant to be a precision clue. Perhaps it would bring you to a small general area and the precision clue is elsewhere. Just another idea to consider.

"And sometimes where the verse leaves off...the painting begins."
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Step 1: READ the Book.
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Re: verse 10

Postby Choice » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:38 pm

From decoding of the purple panel (instructions posted earlier) the map to the treasure ground shows two routs to the spot. That may explain the "Or more"
i.e. a double staircase with 22 steps on one side and 23 or more on the other.
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Re: verse 10

Postby maltedfalcon » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:51 pm

Choice wrote:From decoding of the purple panel (instructions posted earlier) the map to the treasure ground shows two routs to the spot.

rather than reference instructions, why not post the results of your decoding with images?
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Re: verse 10

Postby Choice » Mon Jul 22, 2019 4:59 pm

Noooope.
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Re: verse 10

Postby Choice » Mon Jul 22, 2019 5:00 pm

I think I've developed allergies to mockery and douchebaggery!
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Re: verse 10

Postby davinci4 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 1:35 am

gManTexas wrote:
davinci4 wrote:I think it’s worth having the discussion of what the v could represent. In the context of this puzzle, I would argue (and see if others agree) this is your ‘site specific clue’ I.e. your “10 x 13” or “beneath the 10th stone.” This clue only makes sense after you have identified the correct site location.

I have mentioned previously, the v would seemingly have to be something ‘large’ in scale. Going to the middle of one branch would seem superfluous if it was say a Roman numeral V inscribed on a monument. Then we are told to walk 22 steps. I can only visualize a path in a park, but may be it’s a retaining stone wall. What else? Thoughts?


This has been discussed before, but giving steps or paces is a terrible clue due to variations in stride length. It is my sincere hope that the steps are referring to actual steps on a staircase, or more generally city blocks, subway stops, windows in a building, columns, or other well defined increments of some type of object. The other way this works is if you terminate at a physical location or barrier of sorts, so we can rationalize that it may be 22 walking steps for an average person.


The fact that Preiss mentions 22 “or more” indicates to me that he recognized the fact the there would be some variance in the human step and that paces is likely what he is referring too. It is also not the only the puzzle where he indicates steps in the verse. Whether we like it or not, I think we are dealing with human steps here. If it were a staircase, I can’t comprehend the significance of “or more” ( as much as I don’t like it either).

Kang. This brings me to my second point. The frustrating part of potentially identifying a dig spot is having some idea of what to look for. It is cryptic here to say the least. Despite thousands of comments on multiple threads,I have read very few that actually identify a dig spot. My theories in JPJ Park didn’t seem to add up, as each “v” brought you to just another spot of grass. Nothing really unique. At least one branch at Oliver St. yields the same, just grass. The other branch may take you back to the fence on Shore Road. Then what? As variable as 22 steps can be, so also is the “middle of one branch.” So the question for the group, what are people actually hoping to see at the dig spot? I don’t think your going to find a “fence and fixture” in this one.
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Re: verse 10

Postby bbi » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:36 am

davinci4 wrote: My theories in JPJ Park didn’t seem to add up, as each “v” brought you to just another spot of grass. Nothing really unique. At least one branch at Oliver St. yields the same, just grass. The other branch may take you back to the fence on Shore Road. Then what? As variable as 22 steps can be, so also is the “middle of one branch.” So the question for the group, what are people actually hoping to see at the dig spot? I don’t think your going to find a “fence and fixture” in this one.


Davinci4, whilst I'm not actively looking at verse 10, I have been following the last few posts about it and I'm curious to know if you have any pictures of these "grass" areas you arrive at.
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Re: verse 10

Postby davinci4 » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:39 am

Nothing onsite that I have taken. Just overhead and park views from google maps and google street view.
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Re: verse 10

Postby gManTexas » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:49 am

davinci4 wrote:
gManTexas wrote:
davinci4 wrote:I think it’s worth having the discussion of what the v could represent. In the context of this puzzle, I would argue (and see if others agree) this is your ‘site specific clue’ I.e. your “10 x 13” or “beneath the 10th stone.” This clue only makes sense after you have identified the correct site location.

I have mentioned previously, the v would seemingly have to be something ‘large’ in scale. Going to the middle of one branch would seem superfluous if it was say a Roman numeral V inscribed on a monument. Then we are told to walk 22 steps. I can only visualize a path in a park, but may be it’s a retaining stone wall. What else? Thoughts?


This has been discussed before, but giving steps or paces is a terrible clue due to variations in stride length. It is my sincere hope that the steps are referring to actual steps on a staircase, or more generally city blocks, subway stops, windows in a building, columns, or other well defined increments of some type of object. The other way this works is if you terminate at a physical location or barrier of sorts, so we can rationalize that it may be 22 walking steps for an average person.


The fact that Preiss mentions 22 “or more” indicates to me that he recognized the fact the there would be some variance in the human step and that paces is likely what he is referring too. It is also not the only the puzzle where he indicates steps in the verse. Whether we like it or not, I think we are dealing with human steps here. If it were a staircase, I can’t comprehend the significance of “or more” ( as much as I don’t like it either).



The "or more" in my mind either accounts for that (not preferred) or that the steps are on a staircase with landings, so you could count 22 physical steps but take more than that with your feet to reach the end.
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Re: verse 10

Postby phrabbott » Tue Jul 23, 2019 2:53 am

Hey Davinci, I think you’d be surprised at what can manifest as 22 steps or more in a staircase. One example: two paths converge on a 22 step staircase. One path is more stairs. The other is flat or a slope. From the middle of one branch, you’d have 22 steps. From the other you’d have more. If you look at the Cleveland find, the 7 steps was a mix of landings and stairs. This could easily account for an or more as well in some circumstances. (Akin to what gMan just said) Just wanted to point out that it can work and work well. I’d honestly recommend going to a few parks and really looking at how they do stairs. They’re not always cut and dry flights.

To your second concept: after trying to dig in the vicinity of trees of all sizes, roots are a serious issue. Even with tiny trees that aren’t even that close. I honestly believe that because of this, dig sites will either be a triangulation in an easily digable locale* or a manmade feature.

*doesnt account for new trees of which there are many. Especially where you’re looking.

Edit: I don’t want to come across as trying to sound “wiser” or more aware than you. I only added the “get out there and really pay attention to some stairs” because if this hunt has done anything to my walks around NYC, it’s that I now notice every piece of architecture, every placard, and how paths intertwine. This has helped me greatly in formulating theories using completely unrelated features as inspiration. I can’t tell if this hyper awareness is a good thing yet. There’s so many cool little things out there! Haha
Last edited by phrabbott on Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: verse 10

Postby bbi » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:12 am

davinci4 wrote:Nothing onsite that I have taken. Just overhead and park views from google maps and google street view.

Fair enough, I was thinking over on what else the "v" could be. The thing that popped into my head when you said you get returned to grass areas were things like a "grass verge" or "road verge": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_verge Just thought if I could see the grass in question and see if it was a verge of some type.
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Re: verse 10

Postby phrabbott » Tue Jul 23, 2019 3:33 am

bbi wrote: The thing that popped into my head when you said you get returned to grass areas were things like a "grass verge" or "road verge":.


This is a kinda cool v-dea. I’d say there’s an abundance of verges in Brooklyn haha. What do you picture a branch of a verge being?
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Re: verse 10

Postby bbi » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:00 am

phrabbott wrote:
bbi wrote: The thing that popped into my head when you said you get returned to grass areas were things like a "grass verge" or "road verge":.


This is a kinda cool v-dea. I’d say there’s an abundance of verges in Brooklyn haha. What do you picture a branch of a verge being?


To be honest it was a passing thought, but something like this image attached shows how that wiki site defines a grass verge as being a grass area with a path one side and a road on the other:

Image
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Re: verse 10

Postby gManTexas » Tue Jul 23, 2019 4:37 am

phrabbott wrote:Hey Davinci, I think you’d be surprised at what can manifest as 22 steps or more in a staircase. One example: two paths converge on a 22 step staircase. One path is more stairs. The other is flat or a slope. From the middle of one branch, you’d have 22 steps. From the other you’d have more. If you look at the Cleveland find, the 7 steps was a mix of landings and stairs. This could easily account for an or more as well in some circumstances. (Akin to what gMan just said) Just wanted to point out that it can work and work well. I’d honestly recommend going to a few parks and really looking at how they do stairs. They’re not always cut and dry flights.

To your second concept: after trying to dig in the vicinity of trees of all sizes, roots are a serious issue. Even with tiny trees that aren’t even that close. I honestly believe that because of this, dig sites will either be a triangulation in an easily digable locale* or a manmade feature.

*doesnt account for new trees of which there are many. Especially where you’re looking.

Edit: I don’t want to come across as trying to sound “wiser” or more aware than you. I only added the “get out there and really pay attention to some stairs” because if this hunt has done anything to my walks around NYC, it’s that I now notice every piece of architecture, every placard, and how paths intertwine. This has helped me greatly in formulating theories using completely unrelated features as inspiration. I can’t tell if this hyper awareness is a good thing yet. There’s so many cool little things out there! Haha


You hit the nail on the head here. I also don't want to come across as "wiser", but these puzzles are boots on the ground type hunts. Online tools are amazing and certainly have their place, but the real progress happens by walking around, the way BP intended.
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