Additional Japanese Translation

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Additional Japanese Translation

Postby phrabbott » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:25 am

Hey all, I did a new Japanese translation with my friend.

He was born in Japan with an American mother and Japanese father. Moved to the US to go to NYU and has been here since. Pretty reliable source for this kind of thing. We had a lot of fun doing this, and we added some additional comments that I think will clear up some of the issues with past translations.

https://www.dropbox.com/s/sk972w0wep579 ... .pdf?raw=1
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby gManTexas » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:46 am

Thanks for doing this and making it available. It's all about the nuances...
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby davinci4 » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:28 pm

Thanks!...interesting translation regarding “sovereign people.” Rather than directing us to find the actual book from which it came, he tells us to go to a dictionary of quotations. I guess what I am getting at is the intent of this quote. Was Preiss providing a specific clue about NO or a using this quotation in a similar context (ie to describe a palatial hotel) as it was in Abroad in America. We take other people’s quotations and use them in our speech writing and essays. They help highlight points we are making.

I only bring it up because this clue has significantly impacted people’s opinion regarding verse/image pairings. I am still not convinced his intent was to describe New Orleans.
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby renovator » Sun Jul 28, 2019 2:56 pm

I am still not convinced his intent was to describe New Orleans.

I'd find this line of thinking much more compelling if there was only one quote from "Abroad in America". But there are two, and both literally reference intended casque cities. Remind me again what BP said about fairy secrets? Step 2B is harder than Step 2A by design, but it's not hard, unless you make it so.
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby gManTexas » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:16 pm

renovator wrote:
I am still not convinced his intent was to describe New Orleans.

I'd find this line of thinking much more compelling if there was only one quote from "Abroad in America". But there are two, and both literally reference intended casque cities. Remind me again what BP said about fairy secrets? Step 2B is harder than Step 2A by design, but it's not hard, unless you make it so.


It absolutely describes New Orleans.
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby renovator » Sun Jul 28, 2019 3:30 pm

It absolutely describes New Orleans.

Whether the quote describes New Orleans is besides the point. If that was his intent, he could have used any number of quotes about the city. But he choose this one, specifically because it has "New Orleans" in it. And he choose another quote from the same book for the same exact reason. He didn't want you guessing about something so fundamental to the solving of the puzzle.
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby renovator » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:44 pm

With regard to the clues:
"One more thing. We got some special advice from Mr. Preese for our japanese readers. That is to start by solving the pictures/paintings. To do so, you must decode the poem by solving the combinations of numbers that are in the poems."

It stands to reason that if this is meant to be a starting point, then it should be one of the puzzle's most accessible clue sets. And yet, no one has been able to come up with a reasonable explanation of how the numbers in the Verses work. By contrast, we know from the historical evidence that it was Fox's discovery of the latitudinal and longitudinal clues in the Images that really began to solidify our understanding of the puzzle, at least with regard to which cities were in play: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1081. And it's only after you have identified the cities that the verses can be used with any degree of certainty.
With regard to the Japanese hints, I think they are mostly a distraction, regardless of how accurately they are translated. But with regard to the information quoted above, I think it is flat-out wrong.
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby Kang » Sun Jul 28, 2019 5:58 pm

Great job phrabbott! Speaking only to the translation of what was actually written (rather than hint interpretations and any being true/not true) - It's really interesting to see where things very much agree with the earlier translation vs. the subtle differences. Nice work.
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby gManTexas » Sun Jul 28, 2019 6:47 pm

renovator wrote:With regard to the clues:
"One more thing. We got some special advice from Mr. Preese for our japanese readers. That is to start by solving the pictures/paintings. To do so, you must decode the poem by solving the combinations of numbers that are in the poems."

It stands to reason that if this is meant to be a starting point, then it should be one of the puzzle's most accessible clue sets. And yet, no one has been able to come up with a reasonable explanation of how the numbers in the Verses work. By contrast, we know from the historical evidence that it was Fox's discovery of the latitudinal and longitudinal clues in the Images that really began to solidify our understanding of the puzzle, at least with regard to which cities were in play: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1081. And it's only after you have identified the cities that the verses can be used with any degree of certainty.
With regard to the Japanese hints, I think they are mostly a distraction, regardless of how accurately they are translated. But with regard to the information quoted above, I think it is flat-out wrong.


Outside of the longitude and latitude clues, I cover matching the verse and image pairs in Section 10 of my Methodology document. I attribute this to user notsoclvr.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=6511&p=151058&hilit=Secret+methodology#p151058
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby phrabbott » Sun Jul 28, 2019 7:09 pm

After Kenta and I sat down a couple weeks ago to talk through the translation, I did an exercise where I followed instructions directly and tried to see if I/v matches can work with number concept.

First I looked at all images and found easily countable things.

Then I took these numbers and compared them to numbers in the verses. Surprisingly quite a few lined up so far. I tried not to let preconceptions cloud my pairing. I had trouble with some of the remaining ones and kind of abandoned it, but maybe I’m just missing some things to count.

Anyone want to check it out and maybe take a stab at a couple if you think it seems like a viable idea?
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1H0- ... 7LX-7JWRyI

Example: in Chicago I counted all windows. 23. (Ten + thirteen) from verse 12 = 23

Ultimately I think the Japanese editor got confused and it’s false info. But maybe there’s something here?
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby burnstyle » Sun Jul 28, 2019 8:23 pm

This is awesome, thank you!

Would you mind if I post the file to 12treasures, with credit of course.
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby renovator » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:24 pm

Ultimately I think the Japanese editor got confused and it’s false info.

Most likely.

But maybe there’s something here?

Unlikely. I'll keep an open mind, but I really don't think we need more information on how to solve the easiest and most accessible part of the puzzle. Maps are maps, regardless of whether you live in North America, or Asia.
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby phrabbott » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:45 pm

renovator wrote:but I really don't think we need more information on how to solve the easiest and most accessible part of the puzzle.


Au contraire, I believe that finding a definitive way to pair verses would do wonders to forward progress by removing that persistent question at the back of many minds over whether these pairings are indeed all correct or not.

Heh, but BP himself could give it to us and people would probably still continue insisting on other pairings.

Oh well, an analogy to demonstrate: i search a drawer repeatedly for an object. Then I ask my girlfriend where she put the object. She tells me it’s in the drawer and I immediately find it. That ever happen to anyone here?
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby gManTexas » Sun Jul 28, 2019 10:52 pm

phrabbott wrote:
renovator wrote:but I really don't think we need more information on how to solve the easiest and most accessible part of the puzzle.


Au contraire, I believe that finding a definitive way to pair verses would do wonders to forward progress by removing that persistent question at the back of many minds over whether these pairings are indeed all correct or not.

Heh, but BP himself could give it to us and people would probably still continue insisting on other pairings.

Oh well, an analogy to demonstrate: i search a drawer repeatedly for an object. Then I ask my girlfriend where she put the object. She tells me it’s in the drawer and I immediately find it. That ever happen to anyone here?


Usually it is because it's in the wrong drawer. Not the one you are 100% sure it should be in.
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Re: Additional Japanese Translation

Postby renovator » Mon Jul 29, 2019 1:15 am

Usually it is because it's in the wrong drawer.

Seems to me that you have two choices in this scenario. Start an argument about why it's in the wrong drawer, or thank her for solving your problem, and get on with your day. Considering the amount of work still to be done, the choice seems obvious to me.
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