verse 3

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verse 3

Postby catherwood » Sat Apr 12, 2003 3:43 am

Verse 3
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
A green tower of lights
In the middle section
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
With metal walls
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free.
=============================


some thoughts and notes on Verse 3:

...letters lit by lamplight,
"in truth, be free"


I found lyrics from
"Ode on Washington's birthday" By Mrs. Dr. Macgowan.
"Dedicated to the Ladies' Relief Association, for the opening of their Fair, February 22d, 1864."
1) I have not yet found WHERE this fair took place.
2) I'm thinking that the letters could be engraved at a location:
-a) on the site of the fair
-b) on a Washington memorial
-c) something to do with the lyricist
3) or the phrase has nothing to do with these lyrics:

Burst the fetters of oppression,
Let our land in truth be free,
And no longer Slavery's curse
Blast the land of Liberty.
On to victory! brothers, on!
Shout the name of Washington.


Another poem
"Freedom", a long poem with a section
"The Spirit Voice; or Liberty Call to the Disfranchised" (sic)
NEWYORK, JULY20, 1841
The captive in his hut, with watchful ear,
Awaits the sweet triumphant songs to hear,
That shall proclaim the glorious jubilee
When crippled thousands shall in truth be free.
Come! rouse ye brothers, rouse!

The rest of the verse makes me think of a clock, with "Thucydides North of Xenophon" indicating a position of hands with names on them.  Or perhaps a moving display, like a calendar, because the rest of the verse implies that the way will be lit only at a certain time on a certain day.  (Maybe the 18th day of every month, at either noon or midnight)
Last edited by catherwood on Tue Apr 15, 2003 7:22 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: verse 3

Postby fox » Sat Apr 12, 2003 9:19 am

Focus on the last 4 lines of this V and you will see....

:) - nlad
:) :) - ase
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Re: verse 3

Postby fox » Tue Apr 15, 2003 11:55 am

It seems my intent may be being questioned here so I wont beat around the bush anymore.

my above post ending meant "1 if by land, 2 if by sea".  
"Eighteenth day Twelfth hour Lit by lamplight In truth, be free." seems to me to be referring to Paul Reveres ride warning of the British.  If this is the case, we are looking at either Lexington MA or Boston MA where the actual church he signalled from still stands.


simply my opinion however...   8)
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Re: verse 3

Postby Egbert » Thu Apr 17, 2003 2:58 pm

"Eighteenth day Twelfth hour Lit by lamplight In truth, be free." seems to me to be referring to Paul Reveres ride warning of the British.  If this is the case, we are looking at either Lexington MA or Boston MA where the actual church he signalled from still stands.


I think you nailed that one on the head, Mr. Fox. :)

"If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction"

Paul Revere's House is on Boston's North End, on North Street, in North Square.  The church in which the lanterns were hung is Christ Church a.k.a. Old North Church.  I don't know what Thucydides or Xenophon is referring to (sculptures? paintings?) --- they are both ancient historians --- but my guess is that Thucydides IS north of Xenophon, since Paul Revere's House and the Church have many references to "North," and since the verse doesn't say what to do if Thucydides is NOT north of Xenophon.  The only question is where you need to be standing when you take the 5 steps.  Also, the phrase, "In the area of his direction" is strange.  If the verse wanted you to simply take 5 steps north, then it would read "In his direction," but it doesn't say that.  

"A green tower of lights
In the middle section
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
With metal walls"

The Prudential Building in Boston could be considered a green tower of lights.  Again, we have awkward wording here.  "In the middle section"?  No idea what that could mean.  "The coliseum with metal walls" could be a stadium --- the Fleet Center?  

Any thoughts?
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Re: verse 3

Postby fox » Thu Apr 17, 2003 7:19 pm

Thanks egg  :)

I too am a little stumped on the 2 greeks.  Also, the 5 steps in the area of his direction.....Area?  sounds like geomotry to me.  Your green tower of lights is located in Copley SQUARE.  The Boston Public Library is also located in Copley Square...what better place to find ancient greeks than in a library?

Also, WHOSE direction are we taking the 5 steps?..Mr Thucydides, Mr. Xenophon or Mr. Revere?

or...maybe we are breaking down the V's incorrectly.  There seems to be a flow when reading them, but, maybe we should pause between lines 3 & 4.  Do you understand?  Maybe it isnt "Take 5 steps in the area of his direction".

I'm glad you also found the P building as a possible "tower of green lights".  I also found that but for some reason have been trying to talk myself out of it for some time.  Here is a nice shot of Boston from atop the P building:  http://www.keshava.com/boston.htmlIt shows a stadium ("coliseum"?), a river (line 10 "face the water") and a large park (what better place to bury a treasure).
Or the other way:  http://www.merseycards.co.uk/bostoncards/cards/pruview.html  ------   more water and another park.
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Re: verse 3

Postby fox » Thu Apr 17, 2003 7:26 pm

Oops, looks like I should gather all of my info before posting.
One other possibility.  This shows the front of the Boston Public Library.  
http://libraries.mit.edu/rvc/kidder/kjp ... 22-032.jpg

More water and stairs...."back to the stairs"

In this closeup of the library:  http://www.grendelvs.inc.new.net/bobames/images/SN03.jpgnote the 2 statues flanking the doors.  I have yet been able to locate specific names of these but 1 represents Art and the other represents Science.  Were Thucydides & Xenophon artists and scientists?

maybe just more rambling but maybe not.....

:D
Last edited by fox on Thu Apr 17, 2003 7:42 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: verse 3

Postby maltedfalcon » Tue May 20, 2003 12:28 am

I see this different, not boston
T and D are greeks from Athens, one a diplomat, scholar, the other a soldier / horseman.

Coliseum - tower - letters -
this smacks of a University to me.
Which universities have statues of t and d ?
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Re: verse 3

Postby fox » Wed May 21, 2003 12:09 am

Good theory Falcon, but how can you discount the last few lines of the V?  Aren't they obviously referring to Paul Revere?
8)
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Re: verse 3

Postby fox » Wed May 21, 2003 12:20 am

Here is a link to a good site about the Boston Public Library.  It includes a nice closeup of the statues I mentioned above.. too bad it may not be Thucy or Xeno.
http://www.virtualtourist.com/m/tt/f0a8/

::)
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Re: verse 3

Postby tsweeney123x » Sat Jul 05, 2003 12:54 pm

"If Thucydides is North of Xenophon"

I believe this may be an astronomy reference to give a direction to face. Is there a star or galaxy or cosmic grouping named after Xenophon and Thucydides?
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Re: verse 3

Postby Robh » Fri Aug 29, 2003 6:00 am

Check out:

http://www.giga-usa.com/gigaweb1/quotes ... inx001.htm

"Thucydides at Boston, Xenophon at New York"

There are more obvious references to Boston though
later in the verse.
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Re: verse 3

Postby marv » Wed Sep 03, 2003 4:32 pm

Any still working on this?...I wonder if any cluse are in teh book..besides verse, pics, and the poems at front with match gems..ect.
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Re: verse 3

Postby fox » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:31 am

robp, I believe there is a little more to it than what robh provided but I think he is on the right trail.  If we were to use this quote by Homer......Thucydides (Boston) IS north of Xenophon (NY).  So, where does that leave us?  Does anyone know what is directly between Boston & NY?  I still find it hard to discount the last lines of the verse leading to Boston.  It seems soooo obvious.
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Re: verse 3

Postby fox » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:33 am

::) ooops, wasnt Homer  :-X
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Re: verse 3

Postby fox » Tue Jan 20, 2004 4:46 am

hmmmm  :o ...can anyone guess where our good friend Horace Mann was born?.......

http://oasis.harvard.edu/html/gra00039.html
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