Quest4Treasure Archives

Casque & Key columns Italian Fountain Wall Back Mark

Thanks much for posting these great pictures!  Not only do they give an accurate depiction of the Cleveland treasure ground, they also help greatly in analyzing and deciphering clues in the ten other remaining pictures Good Hunting and Good luck to all!!

Sorry it took so long, but here is a picture of the jewel which I gave my wife for the holidays.  I hope the setting which I had the jeweler design does justice for it.  It's a necklace pendant of a faerie carrying the jewel in her hands.

So the stone itself is all that you got...right?  Very nice setting, I am sure your wife adores it.

Beautiful, Egbert.  And quite romantic.

I agree—what a wonderful setting!!  Is the gem an aquamarine?

Yup, thats an aquamarine.....and according to the Plain Dealer.....Sir Egg's birthstone.

Egbert, Have you had time to look at the underside of your casque lid to determine what was on it? d7

Sorry, I have not had time to put the jigsaw puzzle together.  I will try to make time soon, though.

Egbert, I would love to know Did it show 4:00 or 4:20 or 3:00

Something about that jewel color bothers me.  The Plain Dealer article does mention the inquiry sent by Egbert to Preiss about the aquamarine gemstone but it doesn't look like like a typical aquamarine.  Is it possible Egbert only assumed it would be the March birthstone?  I don't find any proof anywhere saying it was in fact an aquamarine. Two sapphires on the left, two aquamarines on the right.

Aquamarine is a member of the beryl family and ranges in color from an almost colorless pale blue to blue-green or teal. The most prized color is a deep-blue aqua color. It is 7.5-8 on the Mohs scale of hardness and gets its name from Latin words meaning water and sea. you think both BP and Egbert wouldn't have spoken about what kind of gem it was?

"The Nymphs of Hellas cherish sweet Aquamarine, spring-water clear." From the Litany of the Jewels, page 21 of your book. Hellas is Greece. Cleveland is Greece. Hence, the jewel is an aquamarine. There isn't much doubt about what it is. The color matters not at all. The amethyst in Image 10 is blue, not purple. And the Peridot in Image 11 is almost blue-green, not the typical limey color we're used to. Any crystals can range in color from clear white to almost black--just look at the topaz family for proof of that.

Yeah, i follow all that especially about color ranges.  Ive perchased a very wide range of fancy diamonds and continue to check with my jeweler when they acquire new natural stones for custom work. The stone that Egbert has looks suspicious to me.  I recall Preiss mentioned having to figure out which stone to give Egbert.  I didnt have any luck last night sifting for where i saw that communication.  Is it possible he just had them all in a box together and trusted his ability to recognize the right stone?  Was there room for error?

out of 11 stones, I would think not. Especially since 1 was a pearl anyway why would it possibly matter, Besides when Egbert took it to a jewler to have it mounted for his wife. you would think they would have noticed then. I would say no room for doubt.

I'm merely pointing out a concern that there hasnt been any form of verification.  Egbert might have discovered it wasn't and elected not to bother telling the forum.  When asked, Egbert didnt respond to that question.  Fox responded with a citation from the news article.  The news article in no way verified the stone type, only echoed what Egbert expected based on the book. I think its an important process to verify when possible.  Raising questions or catching a mistake is also an important process. I'll meet with the jeweler tomorrow and see what they say. The medium value aquamarine color is what I've seen mostly.

Jeweler recommends testing the gem.  It looks more sapphire than aquamarine according to her.  She says a jeweler doesnt necessarily volunteer the authenticity of a stone when hired to set it out of respect for the client. Anyways, no verification has been made.  It doesnt really matter at this point.

Why do you even CARE?

Are you asking why I care about questioning somethings validity? LOTS of examples of yourself and others engaging in that process fill this forum.  Can you explain something of the intent of your question, please?

Graphics in books are not always true to the original, so it hardly matters whether the color in the image is accurate. Just google any well-known painting and compare the images you get from different sources. They can differ by a great deal in tint / hue, brightness, and contrast.

erexere wrote:: Are you asking why I care about questioning somethings validity? LOTS of examples of yourself and others engaging in that process fill this forum.  Can you explain something of the intent of your question, please? No, I'm asking why you would care what color the aquamarine was after the casque has been found and the jewel is now owned by someone else.  I can see no reason whatsoever to question either the "validity" (?) of the jewel or its color. It has absolutely NO bearing whatsoever on any future solutions.

There might be more to the story.  BP could've planned to write a sequel about the tricks fair folk play... I dont think the jewels have any bearing on the solutions.  I dont know if there was a mix up, but it looks like there was.  Either its an honest mistake, or there must be a reason.  Hope that helps.

I see absolutely nothing that would make me think there was any mix up in the jewel that Egbert got. I think you are making a big deal out of nothing. back to the hunt.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I see absolutely nothing that would make me think there was any mix up in the jewel that Egbert got. I think you are making a big deal out of nothing. back to the hunt. forestblight, I was talking about a photograph of Egberts jewel and not disputing anything to do with the art in the book.  My first reaction is that it didnt look like an aquamarine.  I only say so because I handled a lot of jewelry between two family business...and no, I wasnt a greedy pirate. Thats perfectly understandable, you are extremely unaware that many people are fooled by gemstones.  I witnessed an expert jeweler triage a bunch of random gems and its especially difficult to tell a very high quality synthetic from a natural.  Here's a quiz, what type of natural stone could this be?

Yellow sapphire? A google image search for "aquamarine" yields a bunch of gems that are lighter and a bit greener in hue than Egbert's, but also some that are as dark. Also, if the gem is translucent it will appear darker if placed on a dark background.

forest_blight wrote:: Yellow sapphire? A google image search for "aquamarine" yields a bunch of gems that are lighter and a bit greener in hue than Egbert's, but also some that are as dark. Also, if the gem is translucent it will appear darker if placed on a dark background. Wow, i dont recall ever knowing there was a yellow sapphire.  As pointed out already, gems vary wildly in color. No. I expected people to think it was citrine or topaz.  Its my yellow diamond ring.  My wifes ring has a variety of other naturals with a gap for where my stone might be fitted.  I spent a good year waiting for the jeweler to acquire the selection.

i thought it was a Yellow sapphire too,my mom has a ring thats a Yellow sapphire http://mineralminers.com/images/sapphir ... ylg117.jpg

Unknown: ...many people are fooled by gemstones erexere, are YOU sure that's not a citrine?

Yikes!  This could be bad...very very bad...bad as the great fake Reebok shoe scam I got suckered into in the mid 80's when I thought I was getting a good deal on basketball shoes back in Queens.... No, its a brilliant cut diamond with a small defect and occlusion.  Nothing special, it use to be an ear stud back when I thought it was cool to have just one ear pierced...damn its hard keeping up with fashion trends.

Hi everyone!  My ears must have been burning - I suddenly had the feeling that I should look at this bulletin board, which I do every few months, and I see that there have been questions raised about the jewel that I received from BP. I do not know erexere, but bravo. I indeed have a sapphire, not an aquamarine.  Like the others posting in this forum, I didn't think that anyone cared that BP gave me the wrong jewel.  So, I didn't bother mentioning it.  A sapphire is worth a little more, but I would have rather gotten my birthstone, the aquamarine. When Siskel and I finally met BP, he ended up taking us to the bank vault in NYC where the jewels were kept.  He also said the solutions to the puzzle were in the same drawer.  I got the impression that he was very similar to the "absent-minded professor."  Don't forget, it took him about a year to find the key to the vault.  Siskel and I stood outside the private room as BP sifted through the drawer which he had not looked through in about 24 years.  One thing he found were savings bonds totalling $25,000 which he had forgotten about.  You would think that since Siskel and I were responsible for him finding those bonds, that he would have treated us to lunch at least, but no such luck. So, each jewel was individually wrapped in white tissue paper.  He apparently looked through them all, and gave me what he said was "the only blue one here," which turned out to be the sapphire.  I was too excited at the time to notice the mistake, and I have no idea why it would be the only blue one.  It was a little dark in the vault, so he could have just thought the aquamarine was grey or some other color, or he could have missed it entirely.  I did not get to see the open drawer.  He also said that there were no solutions in the drawer, and made the comment, "they must be in closet at home I guess," or something like that. It was not until I took the jewel to a jeweler that I was told it was a sapphire.  I put it in a setting, as you can see above.  BP was later killed in a tragic car accident a short time later.  I wrote to his widow about the solutions possibly being at their home, but she said she looked and could not find any.  I have no idea what happened to the jewels.  Perhaps they are still there, if no one knew what the key was for. Many things change over time. Many of the landmarks which form clues to the verses and pictures could have been removed.  In my life, I have gotten divorced, and some time around 3 years ago, I put the "sapphire setting" in a safe place so I would never lose it.  I do not remember where that safe place is, and I have not seen the setting in 3 years. I still think of The Secret, though, all the time, and if I ever plan to visit a city with a treasure in it, I will bring the book with me.  I went to St. Augustine a few years ago, but found nothing.  Siskel went to Nag's Head, North Carolina, with me on the telephone, and he found nothing.  But the search goes on, because it is so much fun to do.

Egbert, What an interesting bit of "Secret" trivia! Thank you so much for taking the time to share your memories and observations. AP

He lives!

Hats off, erexere! Good eyes. And welcome back, Egbert. You should drop in more often.

Yes Sir Egg, do indeed drop in more often.  Your extended absences make me a wee bit nervous Are you out there scouting and unearthing your second casque?

Now that I know how to use Flickr, I am finally able to upload my Cleveland photos.  Hopefully, this will help others solve the other puzzles: http://www.flickr.com/photos/102050593@N07/sets/72157636370249904

Cool! Thanks!

Love it...thanks for sharing Sir Egg. Quick question since it has escaped my memory: how did you know exactly where to dig behind the wall?

Well, I THOUGHT I knew the direct place to dig, based on the verse.  However, the directions in the verse were the exact opposite of where the actual treasure was.  You get to the planter behind the wall by following "seven steps up you can hop, from the bottom level."  The 7th "hop" is a hop up to the planter - that's why it says hop, it is not a normal step. However, the verse then says, "Beneath the tenth stone from right to left, Beneath the ninth row from the top of the wall including small bricks."  You can actually count 9 rows of stones, not the same size, from the top of the wall to the dirt.  There are 10 columns of stones on the wall from right to left, or left to right.  Standing behind the wall, if you count from right to left like the verse says, you end up on the left-most side of the planter.  That is where I dug and dug for a long time.  I pretty much gave up after several hours.  My friend Siskel, who had not been digging all day (I purposely did not want him to find the casque!), on a whim, decided to take a stab and probe the dirt on the exact opposite side (from left to right), and hit the plexiglass. So, I think the verse gave the wrong directions.  Either BP remembered incorrectly where he put it when he wrote down the verse later, or the verse is assuming you are looking at the wall from the other side of where you are digging!  I am very curious as to whether any of you others would have dug on the right side of the planter upon reading, "from right to left."

Was the casque nearest the corner nearest the wall or the corner farthest?

Egbert wrote:: Well, I THOUGHT I knew the direct place to dig, based on the verse.  However, the directions in the verse were the exact opposite of where the actual treasure was.  You get to the planter behind the wall by following "seven steps up you can hop, from the bottom level."  The 7th "hop" is a hop up to the planter - that's why it says hop, it is not a normal step. However, the verse then says, "Beneath the tenth stone from right to left, Beneath the ninth row from the top of the wall including small bricks."  You can actually count 9 rows of stones, not the same size, from the top of the wall to the dirt.  There are 10 columns of stones on the wall from right to left, or left to right.  Standing behind the wall, if you count from right to left like the verse says, you end up on the left-most side of the planter.  That is where I dug and dug for a long time.  I pretty much gave up after several hours.  My friend Siskel, who had not been digging all day (I purposely did not want him to find the casque!), on a whim, decided to take a stab and probe the dirt on the exact opposite side (from left to right), and hit the plexiglass.   😮 So, I think the verse gave the wrong directions.  Either BP remembered incorrectly where he put it when he wrote down the verse later, or the verse is assuming you are looking at the wall from the other side of where you are digging!  I am very curious as to whether any of you others would have dug on the right side of the planter upon reading, "from right to left." I wonder how many other locations have the directions like that. I've always wanted to ask, did you find all the pieces to the casque? Do you have any pieces from the top of the casque? Have you ever run the casque and key under a metal detector?

Egbert, I would've chosen to dig first on the south end side of the wall, farthest from the wall.

The casque was about 2 feet away from the wall and 2 feet away from the planter wall.  I am curious as to why Erexere says he would dig on the south side.  Wouldn't you follow the directions of "right to left" standing behind the wall? I believe all of the pieces.  The top of the casque is in about 50 pieces, and I just never had the patience or time to put it back together.  Plus, I gave the largest piece of the top to Siskel as a souvenir, mounted on a plaque.  I did not run anything under a metal detector, but the key is made of metal - you can see it in one of the photos I posted.  Part of the ceramic broke off.  The part of the casque itself that broke off did not reveal any metal, and it is so lightweight, that I would guess it is all ceramic.

Egbert wrote:: Now that I know how to use Flickr, I am finally able to upload my Cleveland photos.  Hopefully, this will help others solve the other puzzles: http://www.flickr.com/photos/102050593@N07/sets/72157636370249904 The photos of the casque are interesting. Yours has the relevant fair folk coloured. This is different to the outside of the casque from the  Chicago find. Also in the book the Treasure page has ALL the characters coloured. I guess is that this is another identifying difference.

Egbert, I don't remember, were you able to determine what the time was on the clock on the underside of the lid?

wk wrote:: The photos of the casque are interesting. Yours has the relevant fair folk coloured. This is different to the outside of the casque from the  Chicago find. Also in the book the Treasure page has ALL the characters coloured. I guess is that this is another identifying difference. maltedfalcon wrote:: Egbert, I don't remember, were you able to determine what the time was on the clock on the underside of the lid? Sorry for the delay in responding.  I was away for a few days.  It was my understanding that the Chicago casque also had the relevant character colored, and nothing else. The lid is in tiny little pieces, the largest of which is on a plaque that I gave to Siskel.  I do not think there is any way to put them all together.  However, I believe the finder of the Chicago casque said that he had a clock on his, and I am pretty sure it was 5 o'clock.  He may have actually typed that somewhere in these threads.