Quest4Treasure Archives

Their are four potential images that could be Canada. The other eight images we have found concrete things in them that tie them to a spacific American city. The four possible images are Image 3, 6, 9 and 11. The fact that we know a casque is in St. Louis and likely in Forest Park and all of the clues that point to Forest Park in image 9 makes it unlikely to be canadian. The thing that in my mind makes it a perfect match to St. Louis is the St. Louis Blues logo. That said there are really only three potential Canadian images 3, 6 and 11. One of these three is the Canadian image. If images 3 or 6 is Canadian then I would think that Newfundland or Nova Scotia would be a good place to look. The reason being the book talks about New Found Land often and concentrates alot on the passage of the Fair People. Newfundland and Nova Scotia were the first places seteled in the new world. If Image 11 is the Canadian image then Toronto or Quebec City would be good possibilities because they have buildings that seem to match the box image. Sault Ste Marie Ontario is a long shit but the shadow on the neckline looks like some sort of a two-pointed tent on the waterfront. I exsplored this idea but found nothing else of significance to the image. One thing that may be able to be done is this. Everytime anyone goes into Canada a record is made and entered into a computer. It may be possible to get the entry records of thoes who went into Canada in 1981 and '82. Preiss name would be in there someplace, likely at an airport. The place he entered Canada could be a big clue as to the location of the Canadian casque.

scotrocks, you should keep picture 9 because of that dogleg thing. someone found the exact dogleg there in canada. (i'm sorry i forget the real name now, it will forever be dogleg in my head). i'm not sure who found it, i guess i read about it under Image 9. so i'd think a church (because of herman's hands) and the dutch design. her----man------------------herman

I thought about the dogleg thing too. I do not know its name either. However it is likely that it is something that was at the St. Louis location at one time but is not now. It is possible it was not there in the early '80s either but was at one time and was of historical significance. It is possible that it had something to do with the 1904 world's fair held in Forest Park. Another thing to think about when you return from Canada they make a record of it. These records could be useful too if he went in and came out of the same place that could further strenthen the likelyhood that paticular city could hold the casque.

scottrocks7 wrote:: Another thing to think about when you return from Canada they make a record of it. These records could be useful too if he went in and came out of the same place that could further strenthen the likelyhood that paticular city could hold the casque. Quick!  Someone with access to the State Department's databases, do a search on a Byron Preiss, for travels between the US and Canada in 1981-1982!!

http://www.afhs.ab.ca/aids/talks/notes_mar99.html Just some info on this topic. Probably not even close to a viable tool or search method.

I looked at that link and is not likely a good source. The better place to look is the records of the custom authorities of each country. I do not know how much if any of this is public record. However, if BP really knew what he was doing he could have entered and exited from locations not even close to the location. Also if he landed in Toronto then anyplace in the eastern part of the country is likely to have the casque. Montreal would likely mean Montreal or Quebec City would be likely. If he went in through Halifax then Nova Scotia or Newfundland is likely. If he went in through Vancoover or Calgery then Westrn Canada is likely as these two cities are gateways to the west. Another record that might not even exist today is this: every airplane flight keeps a record of all abord the flight. If these records still exist and can be accessed then we can likely figure out the location by his flight record. The best way to find this though is by an image and verse match.

In 1981, you didn't even need your birth certificate to get across the Canadian border. You only had to tell the guard where you were born and how long you were staying. They took no other information unless you were being held for some reason, such as drug smuggling, or suspicion thereof.  Our borders were open and relatively friendly. If you made frequent crossings, and got to know one or more of the border patrol, they would literally just wave you through. I know this because I was one of those who got waved through during a couple weeks spent crossing through Sault Ste. Marie, back and forth to the US on business. We used to kid around with the guards all the time--tying up our friend Richard in the back seat, blindfolding and gagging him and pretending we were kidnapping him. (He was a Canadian citizen.)  They just laughed and didn't even bother to check any of our IDs. It only got serious about record keeping and watching after 9/11. I seriously doubt there are records of any of the billions of tourists who cross into Canada--let alone searchable records. The reason I posted the link was to show how many people crossed decades ago, and the scarcity of records for certain years. It's highly likely that Preiss made dozens of border crossings during his lifetime, short as it may have been. I'm not much of a traveler (as he was) and I've made dozens myself! It's an interesting thought, but highly impractical.  Ditto for airline flights. You won't be able to get passenger manifests from 30 years ago--I doubt even the FBI could get them with as many changes to airlines as there have been since 1980! You don't even know what airlines to search,  and you would have to search far too many flights--and you don't even know if he flew. Not only that, but you don't have the right to this information. There are limits to the Privacy Act of 1974, not that airlines are covered by the Act--they're private industry. They don't have to release anything to an individual.

I had thought about tracking BP's flights awhile ago, but as shecrab points out, it's impractical. The only potential way for finding out where BP went in 1981 (since he said that he buried them while doing other business) would be to get his personal itinerary for that year, such as book signings. The only person that I can think of that would probably know that info would be his wife. I don't know how she would feel about being asked about it.

if it's in montreal it's a better bet that he drove there from NY... wilhouse

If you are all correct that Image 11 is Boston then the most likely Image that would be Canadian is Image 3. This would most likely go with either Nova Scotia or Newfundland. I know alot of you think this goes with Roanoke Island and/or Kill Devil Hills North Carolina. I however, am not too confident in the clues you all think you found in the image. Verses 5 and 9 are the most likely verses too match. Verse 5 could likely be talking about Halifax. Outside of Charlston Halifax would be the next most knowen citadel though other citadels do exist. Verse 9 would be talking about St. John Newfundland this was the first city in North America. As for the other two images that might be Canadian: Image 6 has the outline of Florida hidden twice that almost definately rules that out. Image 9 has too many clues pointing to St. Louis and the one or two that may be Canadian clues are likely things that are either no longer there or are clues to the past either of St. Louis or of the park its self. Likely Forest Park. I will be updateing my Image to Verse Match thread shortly showing the likely combenations if Image 11 is or is not Boston. The key to testing this therory is to find out more about the suit of armor. I hope to do this over the next few weeks. If we can definately confirm this is an American location then we can just about eliminate costal Canada all together and the likelyhood that Image 11 goes to Toronto greatly increases.

Hi All: This is my first post, so I will apologize if this is really in the wrong place, but an idea that comes to mind on the idea that he MAY have simply planted them on business trips or book signing trips, and wanted to throw my two cents in on this line of discussion: Many authors in the science fiction and fantasy genre do many or even all of their signings at conventions.  I don't know if BP was one of those authors who attended cons.  However IF he was, if MAY be possible to retrace some of those steps.  Many conventions will list who was in attendance going several years back, I have never seen a list going back 25 years or more but there is an off chance that it may be available.  For example Readercon, my favorite convention lists only as far back as 2002. [Readercon typically has as many as 100 authors, editors and publishers in attendance] The theory I can come up with based on the idea of him burying these on book signing trips would be that if he was staying at a convention hotel he would bury the casques at a nearby park, probably walking distance of the con hotel.  When I first starting going to cons about 10 years ago I was mostly going to Boston as it was an hour drive from my home, and MOST of those were at the time being held at the Prudential, which is in walking distance of Copely [where theories seem to think one would be if there is one in Boston].  I don't know if that would have been where cons were being held as far back as 1981.  I also have no clue if BP ever attended a con to sign books at all let alone back in 1981 when he would have been burying the casques.  However it would be an easier way to track his travel for that year than trying to get information from airlines. I'm admitting that it's a LONG SHOT, but if someone really wants to try to determine a his travel for that year, it could at least prove that he was in a certain city at some point during that year.  It wouldn't help prove where we came from or where he went to next, and it certainly couldn't prove if a particular city was where he buried a casque.  The only thing this questioning might prove is some insight about the career of this fascinating man. For those that don't attend conventions: Some publishers have tables in dealers rooms.  Some authors also attend but may not be on the official guest list.  It would ALSO be possible that if BP attended a con in a particular city that year it was representing his own interests as a publisher, or self promoting himself as an author, in which case even if a guest list existed he may not be on it despite being in attendance. I hope on not being unhelpful.  However it seems that at least a few people want to try to determine BP's travel, and this is the only way I know of that could help in that quest without bothering his widow with what would probably feel like an obtrusive questioning, or without trying to get information from airlines that there is no right to know. Thanks for keeping this quest going, I just stumbled on this a few days ago, and I'm hooked on the logic and brainstorming of this board.  I don't yet have a copy of the book, and as I don't want to be unhelpful in the near future I may maintain my lurking habits.  For now I've been trying to just learn what I can about work already done on this puzzle. --Ringo

Unknown: The theory I can come up with based on the idea of him burying these on book signing trips would be that if he was staying at a convention hotel he would bury the casques at a nearby park, probably walking distance of the con hotel.  When I first starting going to cons about 10 years ago I was mostly going to Boston as it was an hour drive from my home, and MOST of those were at the time being held at the Prudential, which is in walking distance of Copely [where theories seem to think one would be if there is one in Boston].  I don't know if that would have been where cons were being held as far back as 1981.  I also have no clue if BP ever attended a con to sign books at all let alone back in 1981 when he would have been burying the casques.  However it would be an easier way to track his travel for that year than trying to get information from airlines. Hi, Ringo, and welcome...(I've been off for a while--sick with flu). I don't know if Preiss attended cons, but I know for a fact that his illustrator and the painter of the images, John Jude Palencar certainly did and still DOES. (He's appearing this March in Salt Lake City). His paintings are a feature and he's a known speaker.  I wouldn't be a bit surprised if he also promoted the Secret at cons--so casques may have indeed been hidden at these places--and it's a durn interesting idea.  Check out Palencar's website: http://www.johnjudepalencar.com/

shecrab: Yes I did know that JJP attends cons, but had not thought of him in relation to question of burial of the casques.  I normally attend cons for the literary element and rarely take not of the artist guests.  The one exception being Bob Eggleton who is a friend of a friend.  Bob has signed a few books for me, and is fascinating.  I became a fan of his work because my friend had greeting cards by both Bob and his wife, as well as prints of a Cthulhu cover Bob did.  As JJP has also done a Cthulhu related piece I am hoping to find an opportunity to get my copy of that collection signed by JJP in the future...  As well as The Secret once I receive the copy I ordered. A signing request at a con could be a great opportunity to discuss the book although I would have NO intention of asking anything direct like "where are these hidden.  I would be willing to ask about the two already found, as I am really interested in the thought process that went into the creation of the puzzle, including the artwork.  If I ever do me him that is as far as I am willing to question.  And the only con I think I am going to in the next 8 or nine months I know he is not listed as a guest.  If I find time to attend any others I will be on the lookout for his name on the guest list. As far as I understand he only ever knew the exact location of one of them because he recommended the burial site.  Even if he is no longer under contract I am guessing that he would wish to respect the wishes of BP.  It was stated somewhere that BP had a contingency in the case of his death, and I am sure that contingency relies on our ability to find these on our own.  Even if his widow said the quest is over, I am sure that BP's wishes would not be for the solution to be revealed.  The quest is not about the gems [which as already stated may no longer be a prize...  am I correct}.  Solving the puzzle should be it's own reward, and the casques if not damaged I would guess are probably valuable in their own right. I am in this to be a team player or I wouldn't be posting my brainstorms.  If there is one in Boston I would love to be the one to unearth it, but I am going to guess that I won't be.  I am in this for the mental stimulation of trying to unravel an amazing mystery.  If the Boston one does get found [and once again if there ever was one in Boston to be found] I do pledge to stay here for the long haul to use the experience of the Boston one to unearth even more.  I think once a third or even fourth is located the rest of the pieces of this puzzle will just fall like dominoes in succession. BP cave us a certain amount of tools, lets all use what we have to find them and not hound JJP, BP's Widdow, or anyone else unnecessarily.

scottrocks7 wrote:: If images 3 or 6 is Canadian then I would think that Newfundland or Nova Scotia would be a good place to look. The reason being the book talks about New Found Land often and concentrates alot on the passage of the Fair People. Newfundland and Nova Scotia were the first places seteled in the new world. If Image 11 is the Canadian image then Toronto or Quebec City would be good possibilities because they have buildings that seem to match the box image. Sault Ste Marie Ontario is a long rubbish but the shadow on the neckline looks like some sort of a two-pointed tent on the waterfront. I exsplored this idea but found nothing else of significance to the image. In a quick scan of the Fair People list (pages 221 and 222), the two places in Canada listed are Quebec ("Team Spirits" -- which has an alternate location of Alabama) and Ontario (the "Torotogre")

I agree these are the most likely places in Canada that a casque is located. I would say Toronto, Quebec City, Montreal or Sault Ste Marie in that order are the likely casque location.

scottrocks - I would be interested to hear your reasoning on Sault Ste Marie.

The only thing that makes me think this may go to Sault Ste Marie is the shadow on the neckline. It seams to resemble twin tiped canapee on the waterfront. I do not have the ability to put up pictures but look at the Sault Ste Marie Canapee and then look at the neckline on Image 11 it looks similer. Outside of this I do not see any indicater of SSM thet is why it is at the bottom of my likelyhood list.

It is looking more and more like Image 11 is the Canadian image. It is possible that Image 3 and Verse 9 go St. John Newfundland but that is not likely. The key thing to look at is the lavender flowers it looks like the Canadian Maple Leaf is the right peddle in the flower. The window is likely a pond or skateing rink close to the area of the casque. The box image is likely one of three possible places St. Louis Gate or Chatue Frontenac in Quebec City or Casa Loma in Toronto. I would lean more toward Quebec City except that when I ran Thucydides and Xenophon through a search engien I got references to St. Louis that appeared to be from 2004 and the other from Toronto though I do not rember what I found. Another thought could the bird in the image be a blue jay hence "Toronto Blue Jay" it does not look like a blue jay but who knows. As a practical matter it would seem that BP would think that most books sold in Canada would sell in Toronto. I think verse 3 matches this image. The key to determining if this image goes to Toronto or Quebec City is the words "eigteenth Day Twelfth hour" this is the key histoprical clue that will tell us the city.

scottrocks7 wrote:: The key to determining if this image . . . is the words "eigteenth Day Twelfth hour" this is the key histoprical clue that will tell us the city. I think you are right on the money with that scott... "eighteenth day twelfth hour" = Boston

refresh me, 18th day 12 hour = boston, is that the paul revere reference? noon on the 18th? what happened, Im drawing a blank.

maltedfalcon wrote:: refresh me, 18th day 12 hour = boston, is that the paul revere reference? noon on the 18th? what happened, Im drawing a blank. Its actually Midnight (the other 12th hour)

From the first two stanzas of Henry Wadsworth Longfellow's The Midnight Ride of Paul Revere (compare to line 6 and the last few lines of V3): Listen my children and you shall hear Of the midnight ride of Paul Revere, On the eighteenth of April, in Seventy-five; Hardly a man is now alive Who remembers that famous day and year. He said to his friend, "If the British march By land or sea from the town to-night, Hang a lantern aloft in the belfry arch Of the North Church tower as a signal light,-- One if by land, and two if by sea; And I on the opposite shore will be, Ready to ride and spread the alarm Through every Middlesex village and farm, For the country folk to be up and to arm."

wouldnt that be the first hour then? or even the 24th? I would think the 1st hour is between midnight and 1am

sheesh....haven't we been over and over this about a thousand times?

maltedfalcon wrote:: wouldnt that be the first hour then? or even the 24th? I would think the 1st hour is between midnight and 1am Forgive me if I am wrong, but I do not think Revere's colonial army was using our modern day military time.  Therefore; I think that both Midnight & Noon would be correctly referred to as the 12th hour.

see now that makes sense to me.

This is why it so important to get image 3 nailed down to a general area. As either image 3 or 11 is the Canadian Image. Never mind the box image the Canadian Maple Leaf hidden in the flowers is likely telling us this is the Canadian Image. For Boston to still be a possibility Image 3 and verse 3 would have to go together and Image 11 and Verse 9 or 11 would go with Image 11. The location then would be likely Vancoover or Newfundland.

I think I figured it out Verse 3 almost definately goes with Image 11 and the city is likely Ottawa. Queen Elizabeth II signed Canada's constitution into law on APRIL 18, 1982!!! Hence 18th day and such a thing would almost certainly be done at noon hence 12th hour and it was done in Ottawa I would say the in truth be free is connected with the constitution as well. I will now look at Ottawa online and see if I can find anything that matches the image.

scott - again, I am bewildered by your reasoning. The Secret was written in 1981 and published in 1982. And... what maple leaf? I don't see one.

you are grasping at straws scott and trying to force your answers sorry guys, I'm into my silly picture phase again.

sorry guys, I'm into my silly picture phase again. I thought about the timeing of that event verses the publication of the book. If I remember the book came out in 1982 it is likely the constitution signing was a knowen event to happen when it did much in advance. The book could have been released after 4/18/82. Under any case Ottawa should be investigated further as the possible Canadian city. After I discovered the signing date I then clicked around on some visit Ottawa web sites. I will have to do some more looking but I found some buildings that looked closer to the box image then anything we have found thus far. I saw several buildings that looked almost exactly like the box image less the teethed wall. As far as grasping at straws I think we are all doing that when it comes to Image 11. I am going to do more looking in Ottawa to see what else I can find. We may be all grasping at straws but I may have grasped one. I will let you know if find anything. As for the maple leaf it is hidden as the right blade on the lavender flowers toward the lower right cornor of the image. 112 is painted above thoes flowers.

I'm looking right at the flowers, scott - I don't see it. Are you sure this isn't wishful thinking?

Scott, that's no maple leaf--not even slightly. And I'm going to throw this out, despite it haven't been said before. You have insisted this is the picture for the Canadian casque because of a very wide interpretation of some imagery--which is a very small part of the whole image. By doing so, you are ignoring the masses of information in the picture (and verse) that suggest it is Boston . To wit: The latitude and longitude are for Boston The ends of the hair look like an aerial view of the wharf area The bird is probably a black falcon, which matches directly with Boston's Black Falcon pier and street The jewel is peridot, which is Italian, which leads to certain area --and Ottawa isn't one of them. (nor is Montreal or Toronto.) But "Little Italy" in Boston, is The claw of the bird looks like an aerial view of Castle Island The box has a castle that has been matched (almost exactly) to a hotel in Boston There is a globe in the image, which suggests the Boston Globe newspaper The crack in the wall looks like an aerial view of the Charles River... And this doesn't even begin to address all the matches in the image found in Copley Square--including the square itself! The verse mentions 18th day 12th hour, lit by lamplight....what bigger hammer over the head does a person need to know this refers to Paul Revere? And Xenophon and Thucydides BOTH appear on the Library freize, not to mention that Boston itself, (as well as New York and both these Greeks) are mentioned in a well-known quote from Horace Walpole. There were other matches as well. And they're all on these threads--all you have to do is read them. We appreciate your enthusiasm, but you're trying to force these images and verses to your ideas--and they don't have a good basis for matching.

Oh, and I almost forgot: The Constitution Act 1982 was signed into law by Elizabeth II as Queen of Canada on a rainy April 17, 1982 on Parliament Hill in Ottawa. Queen Elizabeth remains Queen and Head of State of Canada to this day. Her constitutional powers over Canada were not affected by the Act. Canada has full sovereignty over its realm and the Queen's role is separate from her role as the British monarch. It wasn't on the 18th. It was the 17 th. That pretty much blows it sky high.

Giggle....

I hate it when fox goes AWOL!

boogieman wrote:: I hate it when fox goes AWOL! I must disagree with that Boogie {is that better }

I saw a website that said the constitution was signed on the 18th. Maybe it went into effect on the 18th . Under any condition we will know wether I am right or all you Boston people are right once we know the exact location of Image 3. In the meantime I am going to continue to work on St. Louis I think we are closer then we think on STL.

You are absolutely right the correct phrasing would be the 12th hour of the night. and that is midnight and it was a very common way of describing midnight.

If it turns out that Image 11 is Canadian then Ottawa is the likely city and the Canal area is the likely location. We may hav discovered this by accident but I think this could be right.

I still think Image 11 is the Canadian image. After our last discussion a month ago I continued to look into the 1982 constitution looking for clues. I think Maltedfalcon may be right in thinkiing twelth hour is referring to midnight. The '82 constitution did alot of things the bigest it for all practical purpeses severed alll ties to the UK. Canada became to the UK what Porto Rico is to the U.S. Thus what the last part of this verse could be saying is the constitution took effect at midnight on April 18th and made you free. The constitution was signed in Ottawa so thus once one made the above connection they would know to go to Ottawa. Two other reasons to douvt Boston are one the Emrald was the Chicago jewel. This is significant because if Boston has/had a Casque given the llarge Irish population the emrald would have gone to it. Second BP was a lifelong New Yorker their is a big rivalry between New York and Boston. He was not likely to honor the rival city with a casque. Both of these are pure speculation but something to keep in mind. Potential clues in the image first the maple leaf. Shecrap was partly right about not seeing the leaf in the flower. I now think that not the whole leaf is hidden but rather the tip of one of the blades on the leaf was used. Look at the right blade in the pink flowers in this image then look at the top part of one of the blades of the maple leaf and you will see a similarity. I think the box image is the Cheteau Laurier

I still really think that the last few lines refer to Revere's ride...it just seems so obvious to me.... but... the Cheteau Laurier does indeed contain many of the elements from our Pandora's Box...including the large and smaller towers, the slanted roofline and the castle wall thingy.  I just wish we could find the correct angle of this building to make it an exact match like we did with the Milwaukee building.  I found this one that is pretty close but I don't know... http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... dy_sky.jpg

scottrocks7 wrote:: Two other reasons to douvt Boston are one the Emrald was the Chicago jewel. This is significant because if Boston has/had a Casque given the llarge Irish population the emrald would have gone to it. Just down the road from this historic hotel (wondering how long it has been around) is a really nice park called Major's Hill Park. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major's_Hill_Park I had to laugh to myself while looking at a map of the area after reading your following quote: Isn't it ironic that one of the roads that leads past Major's Hill Park is Rue St Patrick

scottrocks7 wrote:: Two other reasons to douvt Boston are one the Emrald was the Chicago jewel. This is significant because if Boston has/had a Casque given the llarge Irish population the emrald would have gone to it. Boston's Italian population is probably every bit as large as its Irish population. And the P. 11 jewel is Italian. It's a peridot, not an emerald. Was this ever in doubt?