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As a newcomer to The Secret, I was wondering if the following facts are true: Image 4 is linked to verse 4 and the casque was found in Clevland. Image five is linked to verse twelve, and the casque was found in Chicago. According to Mr. Preiss, there is a casque buried in the New York area, but it is definately not buried in Central Park? According to Mr. Preiss, there is no casque buried in Philadelphia? If anyone can answer the above, it would be most appreciated.  Thanks. Â

Unknown: As a newcomer to The Secret, I was wondering if the following facts are true: Image 4 is linked to verse 4 and the casque was found in Clevland. Image five is linked to verse twelve, and the casque was found in Chicago. According to Mr. Preiss, there is a casque buried in the New York area, but it is definately not buried in Central Park? According to Mr. Preiss, there is no casque buried in Philadelphia? If anyone can answer the above, it would be most appreciated.  Thanks.  Cleveland --- correct. Chicago --- correct. NY --- no, he never said that there is one in NY, but he did say that there is no casque in Central Park. Philly --- he said he doesn't recall one being buried in Philly, but he was not definite.

Unknown: NY --- no, he never said that there is one in NY, but he did say that there is no casque in Central Park. that is correct sir egg.  I was the one that received that email from BP and he emphatically stated there is no casque in Central Park.  If I remember correctly (dont know if I still have the email) he seemed to skirt the issue of a NY casque.

I wonder whatever became of the original 12 paintings. Does Palencar still have them? The Preiss family? Privately owned? Do they even still exist? Do you suppose large prints are available?

Interesting question indeed.  I would love to get my hands on one of those.....

I have an answer for that one too.  I spoke with John Jude Palencar after the Cleveland find.  Palencar lives in Cleveland, and the place for burying that casque was his idea.  He has the Cleveland painting --- it is actually not that large (I think he said it was about 2 feet high), and it is more of a sketch than a painting.  He still has that drawing, because it was one of his first.  He would sell it to me, but at a steep price, so I could not afford to buy it.  I hope to be able to buy it one day, but right now I have a wife and kids to support.  He said that he believes most of the other drawings are in a warehouse in NYC --- Byron Preiss owned several warehouses in NYC where he kept all sorts of interesting things.  I did not ask him specifically, but it seemed to me from the conversation that Palencar probably has a few of the other drawings.  However, they would probably be just as pricey.

Egbert- If you still have contact with him or can forward me his information, I would love to know if he has image 9. I am sure the price isn't too steep to buy just one. Thanks.  Let me know.

His drawings and paintings sell for many 1000s of $.  That is not a misprint.

Interesting that the paintings are worth more than the jewels. I'd rather have a painting!

One of a kind originals of a pioneer. I assumed they would be a few thousand. I am still interested in the jockey/gnome.

This May (probably the 9th/10th) I will be giving a guest lecture at Northwestern University. While I am in the Chicago area, I hope to not only retrace the Chicago find, but also drive up to Milwaukee and do some serious recon in Lake Park. If anyone is in the area, let me know, and let's keep in touch on the off-chance we can coordinate a visit. The only other contributor to this board I've met in person is Voltaire, and that's 'cuz I already knew him and introduced him to it.

I'll miss you by about 2 months--actually I'll be in Milwaukee over this weekend at a conference and hope to poke around a bit.  Will be fun to compare notes later. Hopefully the weather will hold up.  I'll be looking for confirmers for the true starting place of V8 (if this goes with the Milwaukee pix) and checking out other suspected hot spots.  Have fun in Chicago.  I've seen the pictures from someone elses trek there--pretty cool.  Talk with you after.

Forest Blight-- Being from Chicago, now living in St. Louis, I have traced the path to the casque.  I hope you feel the same excitement I did.  BTW, what is your lecture topic?  I would like to see a thread in which we can share info about what we all do for a living.  We would probably discover some interesting professions.

I can't wait for the Chicago trip. The trouble will be convincing my girlfriend that it's worth the 1.5-hour (each way) side-trip to Milwaukee... johann - the lecture topic is advanced uses of multiple regression analysis. I would elaborate, but it's slightly off-topic!

Bumping this up w/ my post because I dont know where else to put it. We cant forget (which apparently we all have) that it was verified some time ago that St. Louis IS a location.  Here is an email sent to me by Sir Egg about correspondence between BP & Johann. "(From BPreiss) Very impressive work esp since the book is 20 years old.  I think you deserve to  know that you are correct about st. Louid,but not correct about the location.thanks for all your excellent work." Which P or V is beyond me tho.

Two questions: 1. Is this a copy and paste of the original, misspellings and all? 2. What was the "location" in question (so we can rule it out)?

More questions..... How old is that email?  4 years? Was the original post on this deleted? and... If this is true, (St. LouiD)LOL, why aren't we all digging in on the only other known fact about the secret? (other than Cleveland, Chicago, as well as NO Central Park) edit:oops, Houston is fact too, uh, right?

Yes, that is how the email from BP appeared.  It was obviously some time ago. I would love to have us work hard on the St. Louis idea.  Honestly, I am stumped on St. Louis.  I originally thought it was in Tower Grove Park on Grand Blvd. in South St. Louis.  I pinpointed an exact patch of ground.  So, when BP told me it was not the correct location, did he mean not that patch of Tower Grove Park or not Tower Grove Park at all?  I don't know.  I have worked much on a Forest Park theory, as outlined in a couple pic and verse threads, but my digging has turned up naught but dirt.  Alas.

Cool, thanks Johann.  Image 9 or 11?

If this is indeed a fact, then can we take what we know about the images and link a long and lat to an image for St Louis??  (90, 39) As I am sure Johanna has said, Forest Park is a large nice park which has hosted a World's Fair.

Image 9, 39, in the hair on forehead.

BP also stated there was treasure in Canada.

That would give us 13 treasure sites. One must be wrong. Currently we have: Certain (or virtually so) San Francisco Houston St. Augustine Charleston Roanoke Cleveland Chicago Milwaukee St. Louis A Canadian City Really good evidence New Orleans New York City Boston

didnt know you were still around Johann yes, as Johann has confirmed...what I posted was exactly as BP sent it...misspellings and all.  I do not know when Johann got the original from BP but after hearing of it....Sir Egg sent me that on  Fri, 21 May 2004. I too have recently been looking at Tower Grove park.  Even before knowing J was also looking there.  There is just something about that park.  Forest Park would be the logical location tho. FB:  I pretty much agree with your list of cities.... 13... hmm.  Have to ax one of them...but which one?  Process of elimination time: 100% = Chicago and Cleveland (found) down to 10 now. St Louis seems to be verified by BP.  down to 9. Seems to be obvious whether by P or V: -Houston -Charleston -Roanoke or somewhere near Wright Memorial -Milwaukee -Canada somewhere -New Orleans -Boston questionable to pretty concrete: -San Francisco (cant see anywhere else the P could be) -St Augustine (or at least somewhere in FL) -NY City (P12 sure seems to fit NY but are we wrong?)  will have to dig thru old emails but I kind of remember BP stating that my theories of Central Park were wrong but he somehow confirmed city was right. Looks like it is time to go over the P's & V's with a fine toothed comb again and see what concrete St Louis tie ins we can find.

Fox - I would regard St. Augustine and San Franciso as virtually certain, mainly because of the many verse confirmers for the former and image confirmers for the latter. I am not as convinced about Boston (even if those are Paul Revere references, that doesn't have to mean Boston, and Thucydides and Xenophon occur all over the place). NYC is still conjectural at this point. And are we 100% certain there is one in Canada?? I hate to say this, but could BP's memory about location be trusted after 20+ years? I seem to remember that he expressed a lapse of memory once.

image one----San fran image two---Charelston image three--North Carolina image four---Cleveland image five----Chicago image six-----Florida image seven--New orleans image eight--Houston image nine--St Louis image ten---Milwaulkee image eleven---Boston or Canada image twelve--NYC May I suggest, if Canada is a fact, trying to match the Boston verse to fit Canada.  What is up with Canada?

boogie - Never thought I'd say this, but I agree with your list. And your suggestion.

still think beantown is the obvious fit .... especially with the last few lines directly referring to Revere. Yes, I think it was confirmed, verified, etc... that there is 1 casque in Canada. Still up in the air w/ P's 9 & 11 going back and forth between Gateway & Beantown. Why cant P12 be Canada? ... w/ a Niagra tie in?

The 74 in the water argues for NYC. I believe you were the first point out the latitude/longitude clues, fox

forest_blight wrote:: boogie - Never thought I'd say this, but I agree with your list. And your suggestion. Yeee-oooouch!  that smites!

forest_blight wrote:: The 74 in the water argues for NYC. I believe you were the first point out the latitude/longitude clues, fox touche but...P12 seems to me to be the most logical P for Canada...especially Niagra Falls area..... w/ all of the water in the P and the vacinity to NY.

I have to chime in here and say to me image 11 points strongly to Salt Lake City. You have 111 and 41 on top of the arc. 112 in the flowers and 42 on the shirt cuff. The lat-long points to the Salt Lake City area. In my opinion the weakest links are: 1) NY 2) Boston 3) tie - New Orleans and SF

Is anyone else in or near St. Louis?

I will be moving to Lawrence, KS in early August. I expect that when the need for civilization hits me (shouldn't take too long), I will drive to Missouri.

FB- Too bad no image has a Jayhawk. Lawrence is actually halfway liveable.

Clearly, there is a casque in Kansas:

boogieman wrote:: edit:oops, Houston is fact too, uh, right? ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: verse 1 the secret Date: Tue, 18 May 2004 12:58:49 EDT In a message dated 5/18/04 12:06:52 PM, wilhouse writes: < thx wilhouse>> there is a treasure in houston. that's all i can tell you . ______________________________________________________ ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: A final plea before it's too late Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 10:24:32 EDT it might be there...it would not be a waste of time to dig there, but I cannot make any guarantees whatsoever < in the children's zoo, it will be destroyed and I will be heartbroken. Can you at least confirm whether I am in the right location or not? We found the original article on the casque found in chicago and noticed that you did originally advise the Chicago finders that they were right. If I am in the wrong location, then the clues to the casque are gone and the hunt is over anyways. Any information that you would be willing to give up would be greatly appreciated. regards, wilhouse>>

Cheers. edit: Wilhouse, i really don't know I forgot that tidbit.  No offense.

boogieman wrote:: Wilhouse, i really don't know I forgot that tidbit.  No offense. none taken, of course. I thought it was a legitimate question! wilhouse

boogieman wrote:: image one----San fran image two---Charelston image three--North Carolina image four---Cleveland image five----Chicago image six-----Florida image seven--New orleans image eight--Houston image nine--St Louis image ten---Milwaulkee image eleven---Boston or Canada I would agree with most of the above, except: Image 9 --- NY (Dutch theme) Image 11 --- Boston, St. Louis, or Salt Lake City (probably the Italy/peridot theme --- something to keep in mind) Image 12 --- Vancouver (Russian theme) image twelve--NYC May I suggest, if Canada is a fact, trying to match the Boston verse to fit Canada.  What is up with Canada?

Not to beat a deadhorse, but as BP had said, his memory wasn't totally clear after over twenty years, what if when asked about St Louis he was mistakingly thinking of a Louisville site. I believe he did say "Johanna was looking at the wrong place." Just so you know, the first horse race in America was staged by the Dutch near a farm in what now is Long Island - 163x... ( Belmont has a mention of it )

Egbert, reply honestly with no regards to offending.  I really would like your opinion on this, being a Jersey guy yourself.

Trohn wrote:: years, what if when asked about St Louis he was mistakingly thinking of a Louisville site. I believe he did say "Johanna was looking at the wrong place." I think that is a huge Longshot (just keeping in your theory).  Even after 20+ yrs, I do not see how one can mistake St. Louis with Louisville.  I think BP graciously said that S.L. is the right city Johann...you just have the wrong park. Of course I could be wrong but, in this case, I highly doubt it.

boogieman wrote:: Egbert, reply honestly with no regards to offending.  I really would like your opinion on this, being a Jersey guy yourself. I think that half of the State is a bit of a stretch --- you could probably find half of a State in almost any picture.  But one never knows, until the treasure is found!  I thought the Cleveland pic was Philly for quite some time, because of the Liberty Bell reference.  I also think that the Statue of Liberty "face" in Image 12 is also somewhat of a red herring, and that Image 12 is Vancouver.

With these ongoing discussions on finding and fine tuning casque sites, is there any enthusiasm remaining for Milwaukee? Is there anything to indicate anything?

Discernable buildings are apparent, and have been identified in Images 4, 5, and 10: Image 4: Upside down silhouette of the Terminal Tower in Cleveland Image 5: Chicago Water Tower ( plus turret from Chicago Water Works across the street) Image 10:  Top spires of the Milwaukee City Hall Aside from the odd rectangular renderding in Image 12, which may or may not represent an actual building, are there any other buildings or  parts of buildings (or infastructure) apparent to anyone in any of the other images that help to narrow the locations?

Image 9. Above left shoulder. (right side of image) White impression on the tan background. I see a two spired roof.

Good observation Trohn, I hadn't noticed that before.  Any ideas on the building(s) or location?

*Laugh*  Kato..... ask anyone what I think this is....

Trohn's 2 spired building....

Johann wrote:: I would love to have us work hard on the St. Louis idea.  Honestly, I am stumped on St. Louis.  I originally thought it was in Tower Grove Park on Grand Blvd. in South St. Louis.  I pinpointed an exact patch of ground.  So, when BP told me it was not the correct location, did he mean not that patch of Tower Grove Park or not Tower Grove Park at all?  I don't know. Johann and Fox - I am curious what your reasoning was regarding Tower Grove Park. Apparently there is still a thin chance the casque could be there, giving the wording of BP's message.

I spoke with John Palencar just a few minutes ago.  He reminisced about Byron Preiss for quite awhile, and how they used to send packages of stuff to each other with "The Secret" stamp emblazoned in wax on them for the seal.  He would receive from Byron pictures and notes on a "need to know" basis, so he only knew of the exact locations of "only about 2 sites."  I mentioned to him that the original article on the book mentions that there is a contingency in the event of BP's death, but John did not know what it was.  Other than BP's wife (with whom I already spoke, as you know), John would be the only other person who would have any important connection to The Secret. Here is the interesting part.  John said that BP's estate is probably still winding up BP's affairs, since it is probably a large estate.  He said that he wouldn't rule out just yet that he may get some type of envelope in the mail with instructions, but he does doubt that it would happen.  Nevertheless, because he feels that he is still under contract, he is sworn to secrecy, and he cannot talk about any of the sites (including Houston --- sorry Wilhouse).  He says that as directed, he burned all of the photos and notes a long time ago when the book was published, and thus he does not have any of the solutions.  However, he gave me his email address, and perhaps I can check in with him again in a few months, to see if he received anything from BP's estate. So, this does not look promising.  One final avenue which I have not yet pursued, and perhaps someone else would like to try, is to contact Bantam Books, the publishing company.  Bantam supposedly is the owner of the solutions (and the jewels), so perhaps the company has something on what would happen in the event of BP's death.  Just a thought.

Thanks Egbert. Sounds like it was a hoot to create this.

This idea may be a little late in the game, but I was thinking, to better determine a process of elimination and for adding confirmers, forming new threads based on location .  I like the idea that there is already a St. Loius thread newly formed by Spinner and a Louisville thread started by Trohn.  I see a better clarification that way.  There are also Chicago and Cleveland threads for even further "beating a dead horse" to extract clues for the remaining digs. ( Dead horse not referring to Louiville. LOL) Example threads: Houston-verse1-image8 North Carolina Cleveland-verse4-image4-facts Chicago-verse12-image5-facts Boston Canada/Vancouver/Niagara NY/NJ New Orleans Charleston St Louis San Francisco Milwaulkee Florida Louisville Salt Lake City Take Boston, there may be 1 or 2 threads depending on images and verses seriously being considered until one has been eliminated. Again, these are examples and anyone may make a new thread in the event a new location arises.  But I think we have them all here. If I forgot one that someone has in mind, my apologies.  Everyone on this board so far has an inclination as to where they think a casque is and that is mostly due to geological proximity to where they reside, I surmise.  Maybe that is the best way for the purpose of recon. I think that, for me anyway, so many ideas thrown into one thread becomes a deterant in some way.  An idea worth concidering.

I think the inclination has been to limit new threads unless absolutely necessary. I like the St. Louis and GPR threads that have recently appeared, but I think new threads should be made only if necessary. Look what happened in the Menagerie(r) forum. Absolutely insane. "The Secret" forum is a model of organization and simplicity.

It's a good thought Boogieman, but I have to agree with FB.  Think about this:  Let's say we start a thread called "New York," and think it's Image 9 (the gnome) and Verse 6 (the "Edwin and Edwina" verse).  We can start talking about the Dutch connection, posting links to Dutch things, and we do the same thing with Edwin Forrest (or whatever his name is) and have a very long discussion of same.  Then, someone else starts a Salt Lake City thread, and they think that Verse 6 goes with SLC.  Do we repost every Edwin Forrest link and discussion in that thread?  Also, what happens if someone else thinks that a different Verse or Image goes with New York?  It can get very messy, and would have a lot of duplication.

Well, this is really the only experience I have with forums so I will trust you guys with your knowledge of the others.  My thinking on the previous post was try to better weed out any wrong direction we may go in, but it isn't going that bad as it is.  Going pretty good now, to tell the truth.  Thanks for your input. Boog

The only way to really eliminate locations is to pull up the casques. Until then, all else is fair game. Edwin and Edwina still has a connection to Phillie. If we use what we have and stick to interpretting the image and verse clues, the locations should reveal themselves.  (as was done with the Fort) I think the next one that is close to closure through inspection is the Lost Colony.  ( getting to the stage that Milwaukee and Fort Moultrie and Houston City Zoo are in) The arguments have essentially ended for these, just the exhuming are needed.  The best asset on here is the groups common goal (as opposed to a competition) Remember the motto:  Carpe Dig'um - Seive the Dirt.

From the solves we have,  all of the lines in the verses have literal and solid references to key off of (or in Byron's case, to photograph) Cases solved:  M and B in stone (on the building) Socrates, etc... (on the monument) So if we have likely casque sites, we should see known references in physical form. Case in point: the kitty Hawk monumnet quote (while not at the casque site, it is a physical reference to the last line of the verse - due south of) Signs to locate at the site: -checkerboard dome (a sign (highway?) reference) - eighteenth day, tweleveth hour (plaque indicating where Paul Reverse was at midnight) - May 1913  (a building cornerstone, a statue dedication) Any other known references where a Physical/Literal representation would narrow down a larger area??

well... if you read my idea on manhattan, theres the 2 washington statues on the arch at the entrance to washington square park, but i don't believe it's near a race track! just havin' fun!!!

Trohn:  You are absoultely correct about looking and seeing known references in physical form(s) near the casque sites.  Images 4 and 5 bear this out, as both have many discernable "landmarks" within them that link to physical forms near the casque sites.  That much is clear. However, the Roanoke/ Kitty Hawk casque, which many here agree is linked to Image 3/verse 11, is a complete paradox.  The verse does seem to clearly lead to Roanoke Island and the Fort Raleigh National Historic Site.  The verse can bring you right onto the beach, where you can then look north at the "wing." The problem is this: There don't seem to be any forms from Image 3 that correspond to any physical forms in the National Historic Site, or the "dark" maritime forrest.  I have been to the site many times looking for the casque ( and am going again in late August), but have not been able to link even one aspect in the Image with a physical form anywhere on Roanoke Island, or specifically the Fort Raleigh National Historic Site.  This is very preplexing, because the verse is most definately pointing to this location. Why can't anyone find a physical connection to the Image?   If it is under a tree, as the verse may be infering, how does one determine from Image 3 which tree (in a forrest of thousands) is the correct casque location? I do have a specific idea of what can be" last touched or first seen standing,"  but with no nexus between Image 3 and a physical form in the forrest, there is no way to be sure.  When you go into the forrest and follow the sandy paths to the sea, nothing at all suggests a physical form from Image 3, nor does anything from the visitors center.  As I said, a complete paradox.

I found this pattern on a bench in the Elizabethan Gardens: Close, but not exact...

FB:  As you say, it is very close. And it is a great find. The problem I have is that the renderings in Images 4 and 5 are quiet specific to the actual physical "landmarks" found at or near the casque sites.  For instance, the fence post in Image 5 is identical to the actual fence post at the location in Grant Park. And that is only one example. I am, like everyone else, using the clues in Images 4 and 5 as blueprints for locating the other casque locations.  Thus, for Image 3/verse 11, there has to be (as there are in Images 4 and 5)  physical "landmarks"  that are also in and around the casque location.  Yet the maritime forrest on Roanoke Island is just that: thousands of trees, sand, and driftwood.  The other images clearly show landmarks that are acurately depicted as they appear at the actual casque locations.  They may be jumbled together in the artwork of the Image, but they are physically at the casque locations and look the same as the rendering in the Image.  Trust me, I want to find the Roanoke casque and will keep trying.

Kato wrote:: Yet the maritime forrest on Roanoke Island is just that: thousands of trees, sand, and driftwood. Why do you keep referring to the maritime forrest?  For "dark forest" ?  I thought we had all agreed that this phrase was a direct tie in to the Elizabethan Gardens which says exactly that on an entrance plaque. Also, what is your nexus that you are trying to hash out?  Maybe some fresh eyes may make the connection for you....

Fox/Kato- I have the belief that the location to this is the stage of the Lost Colony play. There is a prop ship that is to the left/back of the audience.  This prop ship is a tall mast representation.  It does move on and off the stage for its purposes within the drama.  (First seen - highest object rising above the trees.  last touched - when getting onto the beach.) The path in July and August is the walk from the box office to the stage, where the audience is escorted by the players.  The gardens and the other historic landmarks are open year round. I believe that near the prop house is a replica of the armor left behind and found rusted. Problem is that the museum iimages of the dress of the time do not match up with the image. I would love for someone to get photos of this area(s) behind the stage.

Fox:  Its seems very unlikely that the casque could be buried in the Elizabethian Gardens, which is privately owned and administered.  You can't dig inside the gardens, and BP probably couldn't either in 1981.  I believe the "dark forrest" the plaque is refering to is outside the Elizabethian Gardens, and probably refers to the adjacent Fort Raleigh Historic site upon which the Waterside Theatre is located.  The "dark forrest" plaque is definitely a clue linking verse 11 to the immediate area, but neither I nor anyone else has been able to locate something from Image 3 that is a "marker," which leads you to the casque. That is what I mean as a nexus. I believe that if the casque is buried on Roanoke Island, it is probably in the maritime forrest of the Fort Raleigh National Historic site rather than inside the Elizabethian Gardens.

Thanks for the explanation...

Hey, what happened to the APPLAUD & SMITE options?  Anyone know?  Some posts have dissappeared as well.

Seems they left sometime over the weekend. (I am keeping track on the side.) I haven't seen any posts go, but anthing's possible.

Will be probing for the Roanoke casque at the end of this month.  Can anyone reccomend a specific tool and/ or commercial probe that can be used?

I have used a type of plant stake available in the lawncare/gardening section of a hardware store.  I probed by tapping it into the ground with a hammer.

home depot sells a sprinkler pipe tool that is a long spike with a handle.  usually near the sprinkler stuff. wilhouse

and if all else fails, the Wilhouse Bulldozer method is an almost sure thing

LOL!! wilhouse (have bulldozer, will travel!!)

FYI: Boylston Buys Preiss Assets J. Boylston & Company, Publishers has acquired the assets of the various companies and imprints owned by the late Byron Preiss. The Preiss properties were put into Chapter 7 bankruptcy earlier this year. Boylston, owned by John Colby and home to the Brick Tower Press imprint, paid $125,000 for the assets, which include more than 500 titles published under the iBooks, Milk & Cookies Press and Byron Preiss Visual Publications names. Colby plans to start publishing new titles next year.

Eg, are you going to contact them regarding the secret? my guess is that that is not part of the chapter 7, but it'd be interesting to find out. wilhouse

No, I was not planning on contacting them.  Please feel free to do so, if you like.  However, as we have discovered, the solutions are lost somewhere in Byron's personal effects, and the rights to the book itself are owned by Bantam.

just a quick question for anyone out there... did anybody ever make anything out of the pic of all the characters marked VERSES just before the verses start? it's bothered me since i started this thing! any input would be great!!! thanx in advance!

What bothers you about it? It is simply a collective photograph of JoEllen Trilling's fair folk characters from subsequent illustrations.

yeah, i know that...but why is it titled "the verses"...almost like it was trying to tie the pics of the twelve p's with the verses using the character section... it doesen't seem to have any reason for being there... and we've all come to know there isn't anything in this book so far that doesen't seem to have a reason for being there. see what i mean?

It's the title page for the subsequent few pages, which contain the verses.

I have a question for Egbert, (or anyone else who has solved one of these).... Would you say that there are elements in the pictures which have nothing to do with the solutions (i.e. only there for artistic purposes, or because it makes sense in the context of the images)? Or would you say that every element in every picture is somehow related to a solve for that picture? ck

ms crab, I havent solved one of these (yet) but am assuming that there must be items in the Ps simply for artistic purposes.  I find it very hard to believe that "every" item, object, background, ect is somehow used in the solve but that is just my opinion. Check out the article from The Plain Dealer , which is one of Cleveland's papers that had a very nice article on Sir Egg's find.  There is a good section that has explanations for many of the items/objects that can be seen. http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/egbert/secret.html

I've seen the article and the Secret wiki articles and the solves for both Cleveland and Chicago.  Particularly in the Chicago image, it seems there are a lot of "extras" that have little or nothing to do with solving the puzzle--in other words, you don't need them in order to find the casques. I was just wondering if they were all like that--or just that one--or if anyone knew for certain. I don't have my book yet--it's been shipped, but not yet received. c

I have another general question: Has anyone deciphered the writing in the fence and on the shovel-holding fay sitting on the plinth? I'm just plain bad at this sort of thing. ck

...Just a quick question to the regulars... did anybody try ciphering the capitol letters at the beginning of the lines of the verses? The reason I asked was there are 12 stones, 12 flowers, and of course 12 pics, 12 verses, and 12 locations of the casques. The 12 stones are the birthstones, the 12 flowers confirm these, but months are never mentioned. If the months are keywords, they would effectively match the v's with the p's. I'm not at all adept at this, but have noted several TFF trigrams in the mix. Just wondering... Thanx

The 12 months are indicated by numbers, usually in the form of clock faces: P1: June (6:00) P2: April (4:00) P3: January (1:00) P4: March (triangle) P5: May (5 warts) P6: September (9 flowers) P7: December (12:00) P8: July (7 columns) P9: October (Roman numeral X) P10: February (2 red balls) P11: August (8 gold notches on globe stand) P12: November (11:00)

General Thoughts on UNfound Casques with Almost Certain Locations I have always imagined BP parking his rental car at the historical location, and walking around the outside until he finds a describable spot and then buring it. Afterwards, he takes his photos and writes his notes and gets back into his car. Why do I bring this up.... locations in which are being searched: Houston City Zoo Fort Moultrie Lost Colony Theater Fountain of Youth Park Lake Park J ohn Paul Jones Park  (to a lesser extent because he lived in Brooklyn) If one would consider the locations closest to the parking lots first, it may lead to an search method. Wilhouse talked about BP being able to throw a shovel over a wall at an old entrance. The North Caolina verse talks about "after circle and square" and I firmly believe these are the parking lots. I just took a look at Fort Moultrie and the east parking lot has a direct line to the targted southern tree. More thoughts on the process.

Hey all, Just thought I would take a bit of a survey.  Who is planning to go to a potential casque city to look for and/or dig for a casque this summer? I will be looking for the Milwaukee casque.  But I won't be there until July so if Regulus finds it first I will have to change my plans. digger7

HI, trying to get to SF this summer strictly for a search and  if successful, dig. Hopefully at least for a couple of days. trying to put enough ideas down now to follow up on when I'm there. Btw, what happened at the zoo in Hermann Park. I read in the thread somewhere that BP confirmed via a pic to start digging? And also about the bulldozer adventure, did that ever pan out? Thanks

digger7 wrote:: Hey all, Just thought I would take a bit of a survey.  Who is planning to go to a potential casque city to look for and/or dig for a casque this summer? I will be looking for the Milwaukee casque.  But I won't be there until July so if Regulus finds it first I will have to change my plans. digger7 I go to SF every couple of months - more in the summer.

St. Augustine in July.  It's going to be hot!

Egbert wrote:: St. Augustine in July.  It's going to be hot! I was there last week and it was hot - you have my pity...

Hey all, Does anyone have a theory as to why Pics 1 & 12 are narrow with their tops arched while all the others are just rectangular?  Just thought I'd ask. digger7

digger7 wrote:: Hey all, Does anyone have a theory as to why Pics 1 & 12 are narrow with their tops arched while all the others are just rectangular?  Just thought I'd ask. digger7 Proposed theory.... see Verazano and Golden Gate Bridges... (when I say see, I mean look through them from the shore) It is just a proposed reason.

Some of the paintings inside Coit Tower are similarly arched.

I'm planning on visiting San Francisco somewhere around July 5-7 and digging. My wife rolled her eyes when I told her I was packing a couple of shovels.

Hi Everyone, In 2004 a coworker, turtle123456 on this forum, and I started working A Treasure’s Trove. We had some success. With the finish of that hunt we looked for another hunt with which to spend our time. The Secret caught our attention. This hunt seemed well developed, been around awhile, had multiple treasures, and one solution did not solve all the other locations. We noticed all the remarkable effort and teamwork this forum has put into this treasure hunt. It is refreshing to see everyone sharing their ideas with the group. As we made steps forward, we decided it would be more fun for everyone for us to share and work with this forum. We would like to start sharing our ideas. By focusing on a couple locations we made ground. We found the dig area for San Francisco and the general area for New York. We have also developed some theories on other locations. We are looking forward to working with everyone. Maybe we’ll meet on a future dig.

We can't wait to hear about your ideas!

will be in NYC in mid July and am hoping that Boogie & I have some great pics to share.  my family already has an itinerary in the works but they KNOW that at least some of my time in the Big APPLE will be spent w/ The Secret. I too can't wait to hear some of your ideas Sonoran...especially with digs in both SF & NY in the very near future.  Don't be suprised to get from Trohn if horses arent involved just goofing buddy..you know that.

fox wrote:: I too can't wait to hear some of your ideas Sonoran...especially with digs in both SF & NY in the very near future.  Don't be suprised to get from Trohn if horses arent involved just goofing buddy..you know that. Horsing around...no problem.  Just keep in mind which end you are talking to

I'm sorry to have to post this, but one of our regular hunters, Paul Skoda, (Adoks53) passed away very suddenly and unexpectedly on Saturday, June 30, 2007. I received word today from his oldest daughter, Shannon. Paul was on his way home from a laundromat when he simply dropped to the ground. Gone in an instant, literally. He was a fantastic artist--I posted his "Dig Here" picture here for everyone--he wanted you all to share it. And he had a wonderful wacky sense of humor, though not much computer savvy. Paul had his own theories about the Secret, and what the text of the book revealed--we had many lively discussions about aspects of it, and he sent me photos of his journey to Oregon when he was working the puzzle "Treasure: In Search of the Golden Horse".  I received almost daily emails from him, mostly small talk and chatter--he made me happy every day of the week by simply saying "good morning, shecrab!" His artwork hangs in a special place in my house. And his memory will forever hang in a special place in my life. Sometimes the people we meet on forums become our friends, and that is a good thing, always. Christin Keck

*Damn*  Didn't he always say 'Just having fun'

Indeed he did.  I didn't know Adoks53 very well - just from his posts on The Secret board, but his posts were always upbeat and cheerful.  I don't think I ever saw a negative post from him.  Sad news.

Oh my!  My sincere condolences to you Shecrab, and to Paul's entire family.  He will be missed here, along with his subtle sense of humor.

Sorry to hear that. He will be missed.

Can someone remind me why we think there is a casque in Canada? The book says nothing about Canada that I could find, and the back cover says "Across North America," which could mean the U.S., Canada, Honduras, Costa Rica, Mexico... One of the early newspaper articles mentions "48 states" without a Canada reference, and also that BP's purpose with this book was to try to establish a "contemporary American mythology." So whence Canada?

apparently, you asked this question once before and it was answered by Fox: BEGIN QUOTE: Quote from: forest_blight on August 01, 2006, 04:02:52 So which is right? Fox posted in 2004 that BP had confirmed to him that a casque was buried in Canada. Could BP have been mistaken or misunderstood? The idea of a Canadian casque rests on Fox's memory or e-mail archives. If we could eliminate Canada, that would narrow it down quite a bit for us, because if there is a Canadian casque, and if P11 is Boston and P9 is St. Louis, that means there is no casque in New York City and by elimination P12 *must* be Canadian. Fox - do you still have that message from BP? Sorry about the delay.  Here is the very brief response I received from BP.  I think my initial email to him said something about I was really enjoying the hunt and I asked about the Canada casque rumor: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- From : Sent :  Monday, April 7, 2003 2:08 PM To : [email protected] Subject :  Re: "The Secret" |  |  | The Secret | Inbox thanks! yes, there is a treasure in Canada. |  |    |  |  | The Secret | Inbox Get the latest updates from MSN END QUOTE

I believe there is also a Canada confirmation either in the original newspaper article announcing the book, or in the Chicago article when that casque was found.  I forgot which threads had those articles in them.

There's a whole thread on here called Canadian questions or something like that which has that post and the Chicago article too. Apparently, there was an advertisement that said US and Canada, but the Chicago article said 48 states only--but it was pointed out that the Chicago article was riddled with errors. I think BP's own email says it all. There is indeed a casque in Canada.

Thanks shecrab - I had forgotten that exchange. As for the newspaper articles, this one states "...the far reaches of the 48 states..." http://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/ct_080983a.jpg This article mentions "...hundreds of thousands of Americans will be galvanized into action by the promise of rubies..." http://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/ct_111682a.jpg ...and "...an effort to build a contemporary American mythology..." and "...America needed hip modern fantasy world..." http://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/ct_111682b1.jpg ...and "Preiss, 29, hid the jewels over several months as he crossed the country on other business..." On the other hand it also says "...[the Fair People] hid their hoard all over the continent..." Also, the article about Egbert's find mentions "...hidden across North America." http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/egbert/secret.html

Thanks for swinging this over to Gen. Quests..  If you want to eliminate New york, then we should find the 74 in NY and draw a straight line on the map up into Canada.  This should also eliminate certain areas that have already been looked at up there.  I believe it would break the P12 Niagra idea.  Vancouver as well.  But first we must all agree that there is a 74 in the image.....  Hey, but we do have a 73 in P9 don't we?  This whole thing is starting to make me cry!!!!

It's October, time to find the Opal Casque!!!  everyone start workin' on P9!!!  just tryin to get some posts out there, there hasn't been one in a week. -regulus

Anyone interested, there's a piece on the Scifi channel on the Roanoke-Virginia Dare history tonite at 9pm EST.  It's called The Wraths of Roanoke.

if i would have saw the post in time...lol

can someone tell me how to resize photos so that they are small enough to be posted on the tweleve website.  I took a few pics over the summer that I want to post but they are more than 1 Mb in size and I believe that in order to post them to the tweleve website they can only be 240 kb. thanks for the help. digger7

digger, what would be better for all is to open an account on a photohosting site, such as Flickr or Photobucket or Imageshack. Then you upload your images, and they resize them for you, and give you code so you can embed them into your posts. All these hosting sites are free. I use Imageshack. It's pretty simple. Yahoo.com uses Flickr, and depending on your browser/IP service, you might be able to get one as part of that. An alternative is to open the picture file in Windows Paint or Microsoft Photo Viewer and open the image for editing. If you use Paint, on the toolbar above is a selection called "Image" and under that will be a drop-down menu to resize (shrink/skew) the image. You can simply put in the percentage of original size you want it to be, say, 50% of original, until you get the size you want. By right-clicking your mouse on the image and highlighting properties, you can find out how many bytes your pic is after re-sizing. If you have any other photo-viewing/editing software, there will be an option to resize your photo there, as well.

Irfanview is anive piece of free software. http://www.irfanview.com/ Mark

Thanks shecrab and Mark.  I will try one of those. digger7

This is a test---there has been no activity for over a week, and I just wanted to see if everything was still working!!

as far as I know, everything is working fine. digger7

shecrab wrote:: This is a test---there has been no activity for over a week, and I just wanted to see if everything was still working!! PUNCH DRUNK phase.  It happens.  One good idea and we're back in the saddle.  I just don't have any yet.  Anybody else? Hey, where's Fox?

yeah... i noticed that fox hasn't been around lately...  say somethin' fox!!!

I e-mailed fox several weeks ago threatening to visit Albuquerque, but got no response. Hope he's okay!

FOX!!!

So please reiterate for me. BP Confirmed that a casque was burried in St. Louis and a casque was burried in Canada.

scottrocks7 wrote:: So please reiterate for me. BP Confirmed that a casque was burried in St. Louis and a casque was burried in Canada. Tenuous speculation from less than specific quotes.

Er....... Wasn't the email from Preiss a real email? The one where he said there was a Canadian casque?

guys, I am going from memory here, but if you do some searches you will find the posts. Fox (I believe) communicated with Preiss and he did state that one was in Canada. Johann (again, I believe) communicated with Preiss and (I believe) he confirmed that there was one in St. Louis. Look, Preiss and I communicated over a period of 2 years.  He was cryptic by nature. Rarely did he give direct answers.  Sometimes, even his direct answers didn't make sense.  But I am pretty sure his agreement with Canada was clear.  The St. Louis one I am less sure of. Fox and Johann will have to confirm... wilhouse

I have just noticed Fox was in the forum.  Are you hiding in the bush Fox?

no bush hiding here...just trying to get caught up on the past 4 months of missed posts.  some quick comments: I really really like the progress on the Milwaukee casque... I am really not too sure about the SLC theory... Still intrigued about the Washington Sq theory but....asphalt?...seems unlikely...besides the "other" Edwin & Edwina sure fit more nicely Whew...think I may have gotten caught up...nice to be at the inlaws for the extended weekend with internet access Now to what I was asked here....YES I will confirm that the email of BP I posted some time ago was authentic and YES, he came right out and stated that there was a Canadian Casque.  I also remember Johann speaking of the St Louis casque and may even have an email confirming this as well. It sure is nice to be back amongst friends even if it is only for an extended weekend.....

FOX!!

Nice to be back Mr. Wm House and others...even if it is for just an extended weekend for now.

Would whoever erased the translation of the San Fransisco verse on the Wiki please put it back. I know we have had some hot discussions about the wiki these past few weeks but I think the summerie of the verse that we think goes with San Fransisco is correct. I want to send this to some people I know in the San Fransisco area that may be able to arange a dig for this casque in January. I am not however makeing any promises. Having this summation would speed things along as they have never seen any of this yet.

I would say that Bantom Books has the locations of all of the Casques someplace. It is not likely that they would get involved in a treasure hunt and not know the solutions. This would likely be in their archive someplace.

It is also possible that because books of this nature are so unusual that Bantam would not know how to handle such a contract.  I am sure that any company these days would want solutions in hand to ensure that there was in fact a correct solution, perhaps to ensure that the items were not buried someplace that would send people into trouble, etc all to cover their rear ends.  But it is also very possible that saying "there is a solution" may have been enough for Bantam 25 years ago [ MAYBE even today ].  I seem to think I read somewhere that someone contacted Bantam at one point and were told they did not have them.  I may be wrong, I've read an awful lot in a few short days time.  Does someone with a copy of the book have the information of who to contact once a casque has been found?  Was it a contact at Bantam, or was it Mr. Preiss directly?

If you found a casque, you were to contact Preiss. Not the publisher.You sent it directly to his company, Visual Publications, Inc., Box 5329 FDR Station, New York, NY 10150. And it's been stated that the solutions are in the possession of Preiss's widow, in his papers, or as part of his estate, and the jewels in a safe deposit box somewhere.

The last time I heard, BP couldn't find the solutions. They were supposed to be in the safe deposit box with the jewels, but weren't there when Eg's jewel was fetched.

I think I remember that someone approached Palencar about possible clues in the images and he responded that he was still under contract with Preiss' company so he couldn't say anything. Since then, I believe BP's assets have been liquidated and his company dissolved. Technically, Palencar wouldn't be under contract any more. Has anyone tried to contact him since?  I know that he doesn't know the location of the casques but he may be able to identify some of the buildings and clues in the images.

Sheverin!!! Way to lick off all the icing!!! Wouldn't that be a complete HOOT if Palencar DID know? The locations might be discovered and the hunt officially ended! You could topple the whole structure in one fell swoop! I think someone needs to visit SLC in March--or Baltimore in May--he'll be there. Who's up for it?

how do we get ahold of priess widow. i need to know this when i pull one out of the ground in the next few months

I gave you the address above. Either use it or contact Bantam Books. I do not think it would be a good idea to contact Preiss's family.

I agree with Shecrab: I think it would be insensitive to ask his family for ANY kind of information, or to ask if the gems are still a valid prize.  If you unearthed a casque I would see it differently.  His family is probably glad to hear that we are still searching for these.  It is a fitting memorial to him.  Find a casque, then ask if there is still a prize.  If there isn't don't pout.  The casque may itself be of value, at the very least should be valuable to the finder.  If I found one I wouldn't be selling it.  This isn't or at least shouldn't be about monetary compensation. Any other hunt this old would have been closed by now, or am I wrong in thinking so? --Rngo

gad you're feeling better ck,  you were missed, it was so quiet around here. was hoping you were on a hunt

I know it was probably suggested in jest, but I for one would be extremely disappointed if this hunt ended any other way than by using our noggins to figure out where the casques were buried. Asking JJP for the answers just isn't cricket.

It sounded like a serious suggestion, which is why I wanted to make it clear: IF I happen to go to a con where JJP is a guest, YES I will be seeking him out, but it will be with other business at hand.  YES, if opportunity was there I would like to ask him about Castle Hat.  But I agree with you Forrest, I would certainly NOT ask about any painting for an unfound casque.  I would feel that it would be harrassment on SOME level.  And I know my book dealer friend that I normally accompany to help sell books would be embarrassed if I did or said anything that was out of place to a professional.  JJP has already said that he "is under contract."  Case should be closed.  Forrest:  If you are suggesting that even asking about the already found pieces is in bad taste, then I will take that under heavy advisement, and trust me:  I will think before I speak.  And as of now, I don't see an opportunity on my end to meet him in the near future.

Forrest: I DO think though that perhaps he MAY be willing to talk some about "Castle Hat" if it's the only piece from The Secret that is posted on his website.  There must be some reason that he picked that particular one.  Maybe not asking him to reveal any secrets of the painting in the process, but some history on that one?  Shecrab has my mind whirrling on that picture from a "biography" standpoint now, which isn't going to help us.  Go figure.  Turn me into questioning an unhelpful question.

shseverin11 wrote:: I think I remember that someone approached Palencar about possible clues in the images and he responded that he was still under contract with Preiss' company so he couldn't say anything. Since then, I believe BP's assets have been liquidated and his company dissolved. Technically, Palencar wouldn't be under contract any more. Has anyone tried to contact him since?  I know that he doesn't know the location of the casques but he may be able to identify some of the buildings and clues in the images. I once had the %$#*@'s to contact JJP and asked him to maybe help with some clues that were no longer there, parks that had been renovated and landmarks torn down.  How embarrassing on my part.  I'm still cringing.  He responded with a kind and heartfelt email.  He remains loyal to BP and the work they did together.  What he may or may not know will stay with him.  (exact locations were a true secret, even from him).  This was pretty neat, he closed with a quote from Einstien.  "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious".  He said that it is inspiring that the quest is still going on and he reminds us that "elves can be tricksters you know".

Boogie: You hit on the point that I was sure I had already read elsewhere.  Even JJP did not know the actual locations.  I do agree that it would be NICE to know some clues on the places that have changed.  However, that may be part of the fun.  The internet wasn't around back then, to it's possible to do research involving photos from 25 years ago.  It's certainly not easy, but POSSIBLE, and the mystery is certainly fun.

forest_blight wrote:: I know it was probably suggested in jest, but I for one would be extremely disappointed if this hunt ended any other way than by using our noggins to figure out where the casques were buried. Asking JJP for the answers just isn't cricket. I would be disappointed if the hunt ended that way, too. I was just thinking that it would be nice if JJP could say something like, "Oh that castle on the box is based on a building in Boston" or something that would let us know that we're on the right track. But alas, I guess we're on our own.

Don't have much time to write but JJP sohuld write down everything he does know and put it in a safe deposit box. This information would only be accessed should he die or become incapicated. I will elaborate more on this later.

turtle123456 wrote:: how do we get ahold of priess widow. i need to know this when i pull one out of the ground in the next few months Stick to your guns turtle.  Back to NY again or out to S.F.?

Well, he knew a FEW of the locations. Otherwise he couldn't have painted the map of Ohio in P4, Roanoke in P3, Charleston in P2, etc. Ringo - on asking JJP about P5, you do as you see fit (it's a free country), but personally I wouldn't want to get even a shadow of a smidgin of a hint from him on anything Secret-related. Consider that if he reveals anything not already known about the Chicago and Cleveland finds, those details could inadvertantly clue us in on the thought process behind the others. Once it's all over, of course, and we dig up all 12 of these bad boys I suggest we throw one hell of a party, invite JJP, and talk all night with him over some pitchers. And as for P5 being for sale, who's to say the other ones aren't for sale too? Or sold already? I think we looked into this once, and discovered that the originals far exceeded any of our lifetime earnings. Sure would be nice to own one, though.

Forrest: I'm not talking about an original.  I would expect those to be in the tens of thousands.  MAYBE more.  I've seen original art for sale from artists in the same field before and know what to expect of a price.  Way more than I can afford. I'm talking about prints.  I have bought only two prints of artwork.  The first was a Bob Eggleton piece used for a Lovecraft inspired anthology and is up Cthulhu.  It is my second favorite piece of Cthulhu art, my favorite is another Eggleton piece, which as far as I know was not made into prints.  That one I saw the original at a show where it was sold at silent auction.  I don't know the final price, I didn't place a bid because I knew I couldn't afford close to what it would go for.  The only other print I've ever bought was the painting used on the cover of the SF Book Club omnibus of McCaffrey's "Harper Hall Trilogy."  I liked that one because if shows Mneolly and Pieter on a rock reading books with Dragonets flying over their heads.  McCaffrey is my favorite author.  I want to someday own my own used bookstore and it's a piece I would want to hand in the store I hope to one day have.  The connection between art and literature and my favorite author meant that although I don't know anything else by that artist I HAD to have that print and get it framed.  I cost me around $50 and in my opinion was worth it [it came matted].  Michael Weehlan did most of the other Dragonrider books, this was a different artist as it was a book club and not the trade editions. Prints done in a small number to make them limited and collectible would be much more affordable for the consumer, but may not be worth the time of JPP.  Especially if there is not much interest in those particular pieces outside of those of us here.  Like I said Image #11 is the only one I would personally buy a print of if one became available.  I have looked at prints of artists I've liked before, but I need to see something that I can say I would honestly invest in a quality frame for and acctually hang on a wall or I pass. --Ringo

As I stated earlier JJP should write down everything he knows and put it in a safe deposit box that will only be accessed should he die or become incapacitated. JJP likely knows all 12 cities and likely atleast 8 of the 12 parks. He may not know the exact locations though. He should then tell the parks that have a casque that they do have a casque and as much detail about its location as possible. The park would then be told not to tell us of the location unless construction/renovation that would make it impossible to retreive the casque (i.e. concreteing over the site). He would have to be very careful who he talked to at each park. None of us want the park to dig up a casque except as stated above. If the park knew for sure they had a casque they would be more inclined to let us dig, provide us information such as the location of a line of trees no longer there and let us jackhammer up a small amount of concrete to retreive a casque (we would have to realy know a location before we did that). BP's wishes would remain in tact as none of us would know any more then we did before and in fact BP's wishes may even be enhanced as our chances of finding things would actually increase.

I think we'll just have to agree to disagree on this. To my mind, the fewer people who know, the better. Contacting parks could be a disaster, because it depends on the park administration (a) not rushing out to dig it up themselves and (b) wanting to honor the spirit of the hunt and play fair. We can't count on the latter, and the former is a distinct danger. There is no guarantee that all the casques are in public parks. Providing information about missing trees, when the party imparting that information is privy to the location of the casque, would be too much help in my opinion. And yes, we certainly *would* know more than we did before, and that would be unfair. Feels too much like cheating. I say let the chips fall where they may. Some casques are probably destroyed by now, and that's okay (sad, but okay). We can use our brains and find the ones that are left. I prefer to pretend that the hunt operates today exactly as it did in 1982, and that the rules still apply. Once we start running to the teacher to find out answers to the quiz, it kinda misses the whole point. Not that I can speak for him, but I really do think BP would prefer it if someone deciphered the clues exactly as he intended - without help or hints from anyone who knows the true locations.

scottrocks7 wrote:: JJP likely knows all 12 cities and likely at least 8 of the 12 parks. He may not know the exact locations though. I agree with forest on this one.  The puzzles are the puzzles and if we can't figure them out that is not BP's problem or JJP's.  Neither of them owe us anything more than they have already given. scott, I can see why you might think that JJP would know all 12 cities and some of the parks but I am not sure that is true.  BP could have just given him certain elements of the puzzles to put in the paintings and not told him what they were.  Remember according to BP's wife he wouldn't even tell her where these casques are located.  Although I am curious why you think he knows all 12 cities but only 8 of the parks. In fact, there is nothing in the rules of this hunt that says that there even are 12 different cities.  For all we really know all the casques could be hidden in Chicago and Cleveland.  I am not saying that I believe this but it is possible.

slappybuns wrote:: gad you're feeling better ck,  you were missed, it was so quiet around here.   ;D was hoping you were on a hunt Ho!! Glad to hear someone misses me when I'm gone! Thanks!! The only hunt I've been on is for more people to lift boxes! Anyone wanna help? (not really, of course. I'm nearly finished.)

forest_blight wrote:: I know it was probably suggested in jest, but I for one would be extremely disappointed if this hunt ended any other way than by using our noggins to figure out where the casques were buried. Asking JJP for the answers just isn't cricket. Yes, I was in jest. I would not want the hunt to end that way at all. I enjoy this research, even if there is nothing at the end of it but an extensive knowledge of the dusty corners of America and a lot of miscellaneous info. Remember, I told you I used to do the Conde Nast "Where are You?" contests every month? I'd still be doing them if the Secret hadn't come along and eclipsed them; they are my favorite kind of puzzle to do. I have no desire to bother Preiss's family either. I think that would be tacky in the extreme. But I don't see much wrong with talking to JJP about his involvement. His artwork fascinates me, and I'd like to understand him better--how he thinks, what he uses, the media he employs, how long it takes, etc. I'm also a painter, (or used to be,) and I have interests that way. If I ran into him at a con, which is unlikely as I don't attend them, I'd ask questions. I don't think he or anyone else "owes" us anything. I would never think to ask him directly for information, however.

I guess JJP would not have to talk to the parks but all that he does know should be written down and put in a safedeposit box to be accessed should he dies or becomes incapacitated. If he dies and know record of what he knows it could be impossible to find any of the casques.

No offense meant Scott, but why?  JJP already did what he was paid for.  What you are descibing is a nice thought.  HOWEVER, look at it from his point of view?  I know pretty much how he would feel.  I was once contacted by someone I edited a film for asking for me for a scene we had cut out and wanted it back, two years later.  At that point it was long gone from my own archives.  I got frustrated with the contact as it got repeated several times, and I was even requested to "recut it exactly like it once was", and this contact WAS from a previous employer and I acted as proffessional as I could.  I was on a new project and all my resources were tapped.  Turn that about from this angle:  Had someone contacted me who was a fan of that work and asked for "the missing scene" I would have been polite and perhaps used a VERY valid answer of copyright infringment.  Any fan would hopefully understand and not come back again.  However if repeated from the same person or persons it would really get under my skin.  It would be SIMPLY unproffessional on my end to leak anything. Now in the case of JJP it's a little different, but not much.  If BP were alive and said "I forgot something please refresh my memory" JJP would PROBABLY help him if he could.  Answering our questions has already been given an answer that should be respected of "I can't."  I think setting up a contingency on a project that he contributed to 25 years ago and is not longer seeking revenue from is asking an AWFUL LOT.  This wasn't his baby, it was BP's.  He's already said that he considers his contract still on going to not say anything.  He already said that he destroyed anything from BP with clues.  That answer should be enough. Once all 12 have been located, asking JJP if we missed any clues he just might have a lot of fun answering just for the fun of it, and only if he wanted to.  That choice should be up to him, and only once they have all been found.  Who knows maybe he will have some fun insight like "I hid this item which isn't a clue because it meant something to me."  There might be some fun in it. Just like all of us he works for a living, and his paintings are his work. We need to be respectful of those boundaries.

Pure speculation here but if you read through the book it talks about a second edition of The Secret. This was never published likely due to lack of interest in the original version. But I think what he was going to do was go around the world and hide the keys once the keys were found they could be used to unlock a grand prize or prehaps additional clues to what he thought would be the few unfound casques. The theam of the next edition of the secret was likely going to be the mystery of the keys.

Can anyone explain the significance of the month associated with each picture, and how this may be significant in reaching a solution?

The only significance in knowing the month that I could figure out was that it helped in identifying the jewel itself--because as you can see by examining the images, there is no clear way to determine what some of them are. Ruby, turquoise, garnet, opal--sure--but amethyst? Topaz? in the images they are both blue, and that just isn't the way most people think of amethysts and topazes. Also, it's hard to tell the difference between March's aquamarine and April's diamond. Is that green one emerald or peridot? The month tells you. From the jewel, you can determine the "nationality" associated with the images, and therefore the locations likely they are hidden. Example: March-->Aquamarine-->Greek-->Cleveland's Greek cultural gardens, where the casque was found.

BP wrote:: "(From BPreiss) Very impressive work esp since the book is 20 years old.  I think you deserve to  know that you are correct about st. Louid,but not correct about the location.thanks for all your excellent work. " johann wrote:: Yes, that is how the email from BP appeared.  It was obviously some time ago. I would love to have us work hard on the St. Louis idea.  Honestly, I am stumped on St. Louis.  I originally thought it was in Tower Grove Park on Grand Blvd. in South St. Louis.  I pinpointed an exact patch of ground.  So, when BP told me it was not the correct location, did he mean not that patch of Tower Grove Park or not Tower Grove Park at all?  I don't know.  I have worked much on a Forest Park theory, as outlined in a couple pic and verse threads, but my digging has turned up naught but dirt.  Alas. wilhouse wrote:: In a message dated 5/18/04 12:06:52 PM, wilhouse writes: < thx wilhouse>> there is a treasure in houston. that's all i can tell you. wilhouse wrote:: ----- Original Message ----- From: [email protected] To: [email protected] Subject: Re: A final plea before it's too late Date: Thu, 7 Jul 2005 10:24:32 EDT it might be there...it would not be a waste of time to dig there, but I cannot make any guarantees whatsoever < in the children's zoo, it will be destroyed and I will be heartbroken. Can you at least confirm whether I am in the right location or not? We found the original article on the casque found in chicago and noticed that you did originally advise the Chicago finders that they were right. If I am in the wrong location, then the clues to the casque are gone and the hunt is over anyways. Any information that you would be willing to give up would be greatly appreciated. regards, wilhouse>> sandpiper wrote:: Hello fellow treasure hunt people...  I too recieved an E-Mail from Mr. Priess today and here it is... I wrote... Hello, I cannot believe what I just read on the site for your book The Secret.  I used to own one of the books and you had a page in the back that a person could submit if they knew where one was and could not get to retrive it.  That way it was availiable to everyone to play.  I personally thought that I found one and have submitted you several requests and now know that you are not accepting E-Mail's or the page out of the book for answers to where we think one is.  We must have the actual casque.  That is so very wrong.  You never stated in your book that there was a time limit to find one or that we had to have the actual casque. He responded... I am truly sorry you are disappointed. When the book was published there was no internet, no email and no chat rooms. Many people are trying to participate by viewing (illegal) reproductions of the art on the internet, something never contemplated by the book when I wrote the treasure hunt. Nor did the book stipuliate EMAIL as a way of communicating with us. I am unaware of any other 22-year old treasure hunt that is still allowing people to participate. So I would say that we are being reasonable under the vastly changed circumstances of the 21st century. This was his response to me asking about why E-Mail submitted answers were not allowed.  So...  get the shovels...  let's dig up the world! Hehehe...  seconds after I got this E-Mail he responded back with another one for me... I wrote... I understand...  it just comes down to now we have to be on the money and I personally cannot afford to fly all over the United States looking for a casque.  I hope you understand that I did not mean to come across rude... just upset that I am now out of the hunt for I cannot make it to the location I found.  Oh well...  I will wait to see if somebody else finds it there and if they do then I will just have to be satisfied with that.  One final question...  do you ever plan to make a second book and or reveal the remaining locations in the future if you discontinue the hunt for them? He responded... We don't plan a second book. There is no restriction , by the way, on finding a person in another place to do the digging for you and splitting the jewel if you win... I thought it would be neat to gather, in one place, all the correspondence we can definitely attribute to Byron Preiss. Some time ago, fox dredged up this correspondence from BP to johann, who had sent him a location in St. Louis. Here it is, warts and all: In response, johann replied: johann - is there any way to pair BP's reply to a specific P, V, or P/V pair? I'm guessing that you had a P/V pair in mind that led you to Tower Grove Park, so when BP said you were correct about St. Louis, was he implicitly confirming your P/V choice? With respect to Houston, wilhouse reports: and later... On 9/27/2004, Sandpiper121pp reported: So it seems there is no question about St. Louis or Houston. It doesn't look like he was playing with words or trying to be tricky - he simply confirmed that there are/were casques in St. Louis and Houston. Can others supply other quotes from BP?

I think we are close on St. Louis. It looks like it is in Forest Park and in the Pagoda Circle area. It sounds as though from the verse that the pagoda can be seen from the correct dig site. I hope to have this confirmed in the near future. In another 4 to 6 weeks hopefully sooner I hope to go on a dig that will turn up more then dirt.

FB, Thanks for putting those emails all in one location.  That was great. digger

digger7 wrote:: FB, Thanks for putting those emails all in one location.  That was great. digger I am still shocked FB, that you still don't have a casque in your pocket yet!!!! boogie

One of these days...

dumb question FB, are we allowed to post correspondence from BP?  there isn't a chance for any legal ramifications is there?

Technically You are only allowed to post your correspondence with BP anything else would be a copyright infringement. and also technically any text or images in any form, from the book is illegal (as bp pointed out). So basically this whole thread is an infringement, so whats a little more...

maltedfalcon wrote:: Technically You are only allowed to post your correspondence with BP anything else would be a copyright infringement. and also technically any text or images in any form, from the book is illegal (as bp pointed out). So basically this whole thread is an infringement, so whats a little more... If necessary, we can utilize the lawyers that ATT uses

I simply reproduce (quoted) material from other forum users. Quoting a quote of something someone said, with proper citations, hardly constitutes a crime. You can quote me on that.

Still if the base quote was infringing, reposting it is just as infringing. however many times it was quoted...

Trohn wrote:: If necessary, we can utilize the lawyers that ATT uses Egads!  Nooo!  I've already dealt with those lawyers and was not pleased with the outcome. I just didn't know if I could post emails between BP and myself without his permission.

I didn't anticipate that this suggestion would be controversial. These messages are already posted throughout this forum; I just thought it would be convenient to put them all together. As an alternative, can folks simply post links to the already-existing messages? I didn't feel like trawling all the forums to find them, but if you already know where to locate them...

I do not believe you can copyright a conversation.  Regardless, without Preiss around to press charges, I doubt his estate would care at this point... wilhouse

Well, in that case, here are all of the emails from BP that I still have.  I don't know if they will shed any new light but here they are anyways.  For clarity sake, I have inserted 3 *'s (***) in front of and after his responses... 1)  {when asked about a Canadian casque} Re: "The Secret"‏ From: [email protected] You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe Sent: Mon 4/07/03 2:09 PM To: [email protected] ***thanks! yes, there is a treasure in Canada.*** --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 2) Re: "The Secret"‏ From: [email protected] You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe Sent: Tue 4/08/03 8:21 AM To: [email protected] In a message dated 4/8/2003 3:44:26 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I hate to bother you again but you seem to have avoided the question as to the status of the jewels availability.  Dont worry, if you say they are no longer available, I will still wrack my brain over this book until at least one of the riddles is solved.  Thanks again for your time and such a wonderful adventure. *** jewels still available! *** --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 3) Re: "The Secret"‏ From: [email protected] You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe Sent: Wed 4/30/03 1:49 PM To: [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] ; [email protected] In a message dated 4/29/03 11:38:33 PM, [email protected] writes: << Mr. Preiss, I just wanted to let you know that the word the jewels are still available have definitely generated new interest in this hunt. A group of us have once again become emersed in this wonderful adventure. I was wondering....Is there a closing date for this hunt and will the solutions ever be released? Also, we feel we may be closing in on a couple of the locations and I was wondering if we still mail in our solutions to the adress in the back of the book? >> *** the address is 24 West 25th Street. Ny NY 10010 Attention Byron Preiss. *** ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 4)  {when asked about how to submit a location in writing} Re: possible solution - The Secret‏ From: [email protected] You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe Sent: Sun 8/31/03 10:21 PM To: [email protected] In a message dated 8/31/03 4:37:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: ?  Can it simply be something like:  City, USA / so-n-so park / next to the statue of  Mr. X?  Or must it be take exactly 5 steps west of the 3rd tree and dig?  Just curious as to we really think we are getting very close to 2 of them. *** it's been so long..just email me the MOST you can..and precise--you will have to take a picture of the spot at which you think the casque is buried! lost the email of the treasure hunt buff to do a new book..please resend! *** ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5)  {I did not believe the above response was from BP and this was my follow up} Re: possible solution - The Secret‏ From: [email protected] You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe Sent: Tue 9/02/03 11:02 AM To: [email protected] In a message dated 9/1/2003 12:33:28 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: state above that "you will have to take a picture of the spot at which you think the caque is buried"...but, if I was close enough to take a pic, dont you think I would dig it up myself?  Please let Mr. B Preiss respond to my query. Thank you, Robert *** yes, this was from me. i thought you were saying that the casque might be unaccessible or that something might have been built on the site in the intervening years. i have polaroids of all the sites--so I was suggesting that you photograph the site you think it is--even if it has changed--and i would match it up with yours. *** -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- 6)  {this one is a little cryptic} Re: The SECRET‏ From: [email protected] You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe Sent: Sun 5/30/04 10:08 PM To: [email protected] In a message dated 5/28/04 1:19:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << p;

Thanks fox! There are a couple (few?) more out there that we're still missing.

thanks guys, it's great you did this, but even better if it had it's own thread with category title, so it would be easy to find.

slaps - I started this discussion here specifically to avoid proliferation of new threads, and because some of BP's messages were already posted here. Can we get down to discussing his words?? Surely we can squeeze something more from them.

Very cool Fox!  Thank you.  I take from BP's reponse that at the very least, in 2004 (date of his email), that a possible casque in NY was not destroyed within the confinds of the old WTC.  Which means that he remembers (geez..remembered, GRHS) exactly where his NY casque was buried and it was not buried at ground zero or the surrounding area that was subsequently demolished prior to 2004 for the purpose of rebuilding Downtown NYC.  Furthermore, at that point, if the dig site had changed in anyway, like being tarred over or removed permanently, he would have had to put us in that direction somehow.  Agree? If my reading of his brief email is correct, ***not so***, than any more of a response from him would have given you TMI, also that the casque site in NYC is alive and well!!! (and not at washington Square)

Pretty much agree with everything you say Boogie.  I too took his response to mean that YES, there is a casque in NYC and NO, it was not around hollowed ground zero.  He had also said (not sure if it was in my emails or someone elses) that there was NO casque in Central Park.  JPJ is alive and kicking baby!!!

Fox, What did he mean by "lost the email of the treasure hunt buff to do a new book..please resend!"

I was actually wondering that myself. I really don't know.

Okay, from this recent spate of repostings it seems that BP did, in fact, verify that there are casques in Houston, St. Louis, and somewhere in Canada. We know there were casques in Cleveland and Chicago. That there are also casques in San Francisco, Charleston, Roanoke, St. Augustine, New Orleans, and Milwaukee is nearly beyond doubt. That's 11. But if all those are true we can't also have *both* New York City and Boston, because then the casques would outnumber the P's and V's.

i'm glad you are starting to see the light. Image 12 is very strongly indicateing New York. In fact I think we have it as a definate because we found all the numbers in the image and they matched the lat and long of NYC. Thus the only way for Image 11 to be Boston is if Image 3 is not Roanoke/Kill Devil Hills. I am open to that idea. Theirfore we need to get Image 3 nailed down as soon as possible. If we can definately get Image 3 connected to the Kill Devil Hills area then we know Image 11 has to go to Canada and it looks like Ottawa is now the most likely place if that turns out to be the case.

What was the message from BP about there not being a casque in central park?? did that say anything more about NY?

maltedfalcon wrote:: What was the message from BP about there not being a casque in central park?? did that say anything more about NY? I remember him saying that "there is no casque buried in central Park" and "there is no casque buried at Liberty Island". Digger, There has never been a reference by BP that there "is" a casque in NY.  Your point on what BP meant with his "not so" is quite valid.  Yet I don't think he was answering Fox's email in riddles.  Just very vague, not giving anything away. (because we are close)  Really all we can literally take from it is that the casque was not destroyed at ground zero, period.  But it definately keeps Brooklyn very much alive.  And if there is a casque in NY, he knows that it is still attainable, at least it was in 2004.  Permanent structures!!!!

I agree with Boogie.  I really don't think he was trying to be cryptic about his response.  I think the most common thing to do with an email such as mine is read through it and answer the last question/statement.  If he was answering the first question, than I think it reasonable to assume he would answer the second one as well.  With your misconstruing of the reply, he might as well of been replying "Not so" to my sentence reading "My concern, and I believe it to be a valid one".  Why wasn't my concern valid?  (or) "I can not begin to tell you how excited I am that interest has been revised in this hunt"......not so? why can't I tell you?  (or) "Unfortunately we are floundering with the correct verse."  Not so...?...you mean we have the correct verse?  (etc, etc, ad nauseum) The only logical statement to respond to with a "not so" would be the one starting "If this is the case..."

fox wrote:: 6)  {this one is a little cryptic} Re: The SECRET‏ From: [email protected] You may not know this sender.Mark as safe|Mark as unsafe Sent: Sun 5/30/04 10:08 PM To: [email protected] In a message dated 5/28/04 1:19:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: << p; I can not begin to tell you how excited I am that interest has been revised in this hunt and that a 2nd casque was finally located. Only 10 more to go. My concern, and I believe it to be a valid one, is this. It seems quite obvious by one of the pictures that a casque is buried somewhere in New York City, unfortunately we are still floundering with the correct verse. A wacky theory of mine puts it very close to the tragedy of the Twin Towers. If this is the case, all remains of the casque would have been lost with the countless innocent lives...... > *** not so. *** I disagree fox, it makes no logical sense to reply to a factual statement.  Replies are only logically appropriate when they are the answers to questions even if they are phrased as statements as yours is or as a  correction to a factually inaccurate statement. "I can not begin to tell you how excited I am that interest has been revised in this hunt and that a 2nd casque was finally located." This is two statements and both are factually correct.  No reply needed or would be expected. "Only 10 more to go." Another factual statement.  No reply needed or would be expected. "My concern, and I believe it to be a valid one, is this." Not really a meaningful sentence as you don't state what your concern is.  It probably should have been merged with the following sentence where you do state your concern.  In any case, not a question nor a factually inaccurate statement and it doesn't necessitate a reply. "It seems quite obvious by one of the pictures that a casque is buried somewhere in New York City, unfortunately we are still floundering with the correct verse." This is two statements the first about a casque being in NYC has an unknown factual quantity.  The second statement, about the verse, is also of unknown factual quantity but as you didn't supply him with the verse in question he really had nothing to reply to unless he wanted to just come out and tell you which verse to use and he obviously wasn't going to do that.  So only the first of these statement might garner a reply.  And his reply of "not so" can logically be interpreted as an answer to the first statement in the above sentence. "A wacky theory of mine puts it very close to the tragedy of the Twin Towers." This is a factual statement.  No reply needed or would be expected. "If this is the case, all remains of the casque would have been lost with the countless innocent lives......" This is a question phrased as a statement.  You are asking him to confirm or deny that the casque was destroyed in the 9/11 terrorist attack.  You could logically expect a reply to this question.  But even if his reply of "not so" was the answer to this question it does not logically follow that there is a casque in NYC.  Just because it wasn't destroyed on 9/11 doesn't mean it was there in the first place. Also, as you stated at the top of this email you at one time thought this was a cryptic reply from BP, what changed your mind? I am not disputing the fact that there might be a casque in NYC.  I have no opinion about that.  All I am saying is that since it is impossible to determine which part of the email his reply of "not so" goes with and we can no longer clarify what he meant by asking him this email tells us nothing.  Or rather it does tell us something because he obviously replied to something in your email but without further clarification which is now impossible we are unable to determine what it tells us.  So the effect is the same.

BP reponded three diffrent times about NY locations.  Nothing in Central Park, the Statue of Liberty (or Liberty Island), and this one on point, Ground Zero.  I assume that his ***not so*** came after the other two. Why wouldn't he just say ***get out of NY***?  He gave up Canada, Houston, and St Louis for us.  I think one has to believe here, with the history of his contacts, that his ambiguity surrounding NYC is about not handing anyone the shovel to dig.  Afterall, his office was located on 25th Street, Midtown Manhattan, and born and raised a Brooklynite.....Image12 has the Statue of Liberty, Two WTC, and the Verrazano Bridge.  You can tinker with the verses, but the image belongs to NY.

actually those are all things viewed from New Jersey.

maltedfalcon wrote:: actually those are all things viewed from New Jersey. LOL Malted!  I was thinking the same because Jersey has been angry that NY claims Lady Liberty while she sits on the Jersey side.

just for completeness sake, I have many more emails from Preiss, but none that are germain to a treasure or solution. wilhouse

you outdid yourself again digger...that last response sounded like an argument for arguments sake.  I (along with boogie & possibly others) seem to think that this was quite straight forward.  but here you go trying to determine which of my questions are statements and which of my statements are factual...after determining that, you next turn to which statement is factual and which statement is not factual but a question, and if it is a question, therefore it isnt a statement factual or nonfactual.  ergo, said statement factual or nonfactual would not nor could not be a statement...but, if said comment was not a statement factual or nonfactual, it could in fact be a question which BP could or would answer factually or nonfactually.  Therefore: BP not only gave us nothing, but may have given us something to work with unless of course it was a reply to a statement factual or nonfactual which would be illogical...

verse1 = Houston                         image1 = SF verse2 =  N.O.                             image2 = charleston verse3 =  Boston                         image3 = NC-Canada? verse4 = Cleveland                       image 4 = Cleveland verse5 = St Louis                         image5 = Chicago verse6 = charelston                      image6 = Florida verse7 = SF                                 image7 = New Orleans verse8 = Milwaukee                      image8 = Houston verse9 = Florida                           image9 = St Louis-Canada? verse10 = NY                              image10 = Milwaukee verse11 = NC                              image11 = Boston-Canada? verse12 = Chicago                       image12 = NY-Canada? I would be perfectly content with this scenerio if BP didn't confirm Canada.  Verses 1,3.4,7,8,9,10,11, and 12 i consider definate. I absolutely love all the image pairings.  But for one to be in Canada, there has to be some monumental artistic trickery involved here. Image9 has the dog leg that has only been found in Canada so far.  But BP confirmed St Louis as well.  How many St Louis' do we have in North America?  Image12 has been linked to canada with the domes (Vancouver), but the 74 in the water confirms NY area.  Image3 I loved for Canada at one time but Manteo island is just about an exact match.  I just checked again. I would like to see everyone's best guess for this one.  It's a tall order, but something may come from it.....I think it's one of the four above. I hate this but actually, Boston or the St Louis image. (be brave everyone!)

Lets start with what we know is not Canadian: Image 1 is definately SF we know because we found the lat/long Image 2 is definately Charlston we know this because of the lat/long Image 4 is Cleveland and has been found Image 5 is Chicago and has been found Image 6 is someplace in Florida we know this because the outline of FL appears twice in the image Image 7 is definately New Orleans we have lat/long on it Image 8 is definately Houston because Reunion Tower is in the image Image 10 is definately Milwaukie because of the Milwaukie rebus and city hall Some of these BP confirmed some these have additional clues and so on but the above is what we know for certain. This leaves four possible images that could be Canadian Image 3, 9, 11 and 12 From E-Mails with BP it seams that he strongly hinted to a casque being burried in New York and St. Louis. We should then take his hints at face value. Image 12 appears to strongly indicate New York and Image 9 appears to indicate St. Louis. the dogleg in Image 9 is almost definately a clue to the 1904 world's fair. This then leaves image 3 and 11 as the possible Canadian site. If Image 3 is Canadian then Nova Scotia or Newfundland is the likely location if Image 11 is Canadian then Ottawa is very likely the location.

If you want to look at image3 for Canada, OK.  But you have verse11 dead on for NC.  You'll then need a new image for that area, in my opinion.  I have a hard time putting any other image down there.  To ponder this, you would first have to agree with V11 being in NC, or convince this board otherwise, somehow.....

scottrocks7 wrote:: Image 8 is definately Houston because Reunion Tower is in the image I live in the Dallas area and Reunion tower is here, not in Houston (roughly 220 miles away).  I believe that Image 8 goes with Houston, but for other reasons (see Wilhouse's numerous posts).  Sorry to pick this nit, but I think I've seen this same mistake before, maybe on the Secret Wiki site?

Jambone wrote:: I live in the Dallas area and Reunion tower is here, not in Houston (roughly 220 miles away).  I believe that Image 8 goes with Houston, but for other reasons (see Wilhouse's numerous posts).  Sorry to pick this nit, but I think I've seen this same mistake before, maybe on the Secret Wiki site? Yup.  no matter how tight we try to keep the forum, something always gets mixed up.  Inevitable? Scotty, in general, what about the dog leg in image9 clues you into the 1904 World's fair in St Louis?

I tend to agree with the verse 11 image 3 match. The dogleg being a clue to STL is just an idea. But considering that when Image 9 is turned upside down it seams to indicate Forest Park and Image 6 seams to be linked to the image by the arms extended bar that binds. I will have to look into this some more. Now I am not trying to start this up again but I spent some time looking at what I think is the maple leaf in the flowers in image 11 and the Canadian flag. To find what I think is the maple leaf look at the lavender flowers above the globe. Look at the right pedle. Notice it does not have any of the markings the other three I think it could be a crude representation of the maple leaf. If Image 11 is Canada as I have stated before Ottawa looks to be a very likely location. And Image 8 is Houston because the tower with the ball on top of it is in the image. Hey I've only been to Houston once in my life 18 years ago.

why couldn't image 12 be the new york and the canada image?  niagara falls belongs to both. "nteresting fact: According to the U.S.G.S. (United States Geological Survey) of Niagara Falls, it appears that almost 1/3 of the Canadian Falls lies within US Territory." "Straddling the Canadian-United States International Border and both in the Province of Ontario and the State of New York, Niagara Falls attracts some 12 Million tourists to her majestic awesome beauty each year." goat island has the horsehoe falls (canadian) and the bridal veil falls (american). that is how it looks to me.  the picture is in  a horsehoe shape. maybe you have to go to luna island which has the cave of the winds (volume--loud)

scottrocks7 wrote:: Image 6 seams to be linked to the VERSE by the arms extended bar that binds. I think you meant VERSE, not image...

If you want to go with what we know, It's a bit more wide open. Favorites and pet theories aside, It's still wide open. I want to fill in more but we really just don't know. There are some really really good possibilities, but without a casque find, Its silly to eliminate possibilities just because someone is really positive about a particular idea. For instance. I was sure verse 7 went with SF, and I thought it was silly for anyone to try and fit v7 in any where else, It was just a waste of time. Then somebody pointed out V6 as a possibility for SF. I thought what a joke, but I looked, Right off, I found a robert Louis Stevenson connection in Portsmouth square in san francisco, so I went to visit and check it out. Accross the street from the square was the site of a theater, famous for hosting Edwin Booth when he came to California. The decorations on the street lamps around the square are dragons with curved and looping tails. There are police call boxes around the square which might match the shape under the table. The map section that shows up in the dragon, contains the road that portsmouth square  is on. The only thing that makes me disbelieve a v6 connection to SF is I cant get it to resolve down to a particular spot, while with v7 I can, but other people can use v6 and v7 in other cities to resolve down. But without v6 there is no reason from the picture to go to portsmouth square, But then you dont see the dragons or the call boxes... I guess my long winded point is, until somebody used it to dig up a casque, all verses are up for grabs and if you have a good location from the picture try all the verses to get you to a casque. verse1 =                                    image1 = SF verse2 =                                    image2 = verse3 =                                    image3 = verse4 = Cleveland                      image 4 = Cleveland verse5 =                                    image5 = Chicago verse6 =                                    image6 = Florida verse7 =                                    image7 = New Orleans verse8 =                                    image8 = Houston verse9 =                                    image9 = verse10 =                                  image10 = Milwaukee verse11 =                                  image11 = verse12 = Chicago                      image12 =

scottrocks7 wrote:: And Image 8 is Houston because the tower with the ball on top of it is in the image. Hey I've only been to Houston once in my life 18 years ago. But how do you reconcile the fact that that tower you see in the image is in fact in DALLAS, not Houston!?  I lived in in Houston from 1992-1995, and I have lived in the Dallas area for over 30 years total.  Houston doesn't have a tower that matches what you're talking about in image 8. Please understand that I do NOT think this image indicates Dallas; in fact I think it does go with Houston.  BUT, to continue to say that it's Houston because of an alleged match with Reunion Tower is wrong.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I guess my long winded point is, until somebody used it to dig up a casque, all verses are up for grabs and if you have a good location from the picture try all the verses to get you to a casque. verse1 =                                    image1 = SF verse2 =                                    image2 = verse3 =                                    image3 = verse4 = Cleveland                      image 4 = Cleveland verse5 =                                    image5 = Chicago verse6 =                                    image6 = Florida verse7 =                                    image7 = New Orleans verse8 =                                    image8 = Houston verse9 =                                    image9 = verse10 =                                  image10 = Milwaukee verse11 =                                  image11 = verse12 = Chicago                      image12 = I'm with maltedfalcon on this one, except I would extend that to the images too.  Even though I agree with most of the image to city matches that he has made and I am particularly convinced about Milwaukee, the only ones I would describe as something that we know are Cleveland and Chicago.  I'd agree with pretty sure though.

First, I want to say that we are getting pretty wrapped around our pet theories. This isn't anything unusual, it's just that it makes it harder for new theories to get a foothold, or for others to join in--and I'm probably as guilty of this as anyone, so I'm not criticizing here. Second, I want to talk about latitudes and longitudes. In every image there is more than one number--and more than one possibility. For instance, you have almost all agreed that Image 1 is San Francisco. Well, it might be. But it ALSO might be Point Reyes, California. There are two very distinct sets of latitudes and longitudes in that image, neither of which is definitive. Look at the sides of the curly hair--on one side you have 38 and on the other you have 37. That is a significant difference. On the apron the girl wears, you have two sets of longitude: on one side of the dragon you have 122, and on the other, 123. That means that there are four ways of making latitude and longitude. 37+122, 37+123, 38+122, and 38+123. For each of these locations you will get: 37-122 = Just south of SF, in a place nearer to Santa Cruz CA 37-123 = in the ocean, southwest of San Francisco 38-122 = Just northeast of Concord CA 38-123 = Point Reyes, CA My point here is that the latitudes and longitudes may not be as precise as we want them to be--in this case, all four of them draw a large "box" around San Francisco, so we can pretty much say that our location is in that box somewhere. It is highly likely to be SF...and the Alcatraz rock in the background of the image probably confirms it--as do other markers. However, we're not so lucky on the other images. Image 2 is a prime example. You have various and very disparate lats/longs here. In the scratchy areas of the lion's mane there are several numbers: 33, 45, 55, 80, 79, 45, and 36; in the butterfly wings there are two 8's--(88?); and using other indicators in the picture, such as the number of petals on the daisy--grouped in 3's and 5's--you can get 35, or 53. These combinations are: 33E-79N80N= Charleston SC 45E-79N80N= Northern Ontario Province, Canada (middle of nowhere, actually) 36E-79/80N = Near Greensboro NC 36E-88N = almost exactly halfway between Nashville and Memphis TN 33E-88N = western Alabama 45E-88N = Just north of Green Bay WI 55E-88N= extremely north in Quebec province 33E-55N = in the Atlanic ocean We can probably eliminate the italicized combinations. The problem here is that despite the map of the Charleston area being fairly clear, it also matches an area in Niagara Falls--admittedly not as well, but it could be used. And the latitude/longitude for that area would be 42/79. 42 is about the only number that does not appear. The clearest numbers in this image are actually 36 and 80, which point to the location outside Greensboro NC. Then you have Image 3--which contains so many numbers it's extremely tedious to get all the combinations. In the floor cracks, and the red "skirt" on the armor, you can get 41, 45, 48, 116, 86, 91, 95, 75, 74, 79. But you can narrow it down this way: use the only possible Latitude numbers:  41, 45, and 48 first to get the latitude 'band' that you'll be searching in, then find the longitudes. Using 41 first you will have a band of places that extends from Northern Nevada to West Point NY.  I'm not going to continue with these, you can use your own programs to figure out the rest. BUT....the latitude of Roanoke ISland? 35N, 75W. I saw no 35 in all those numbers. How do we account for that? It appears we can't. I think we all agree on a few things. Image 1 is San Francisco. Image 6 is Florida. Images 4 and 5 are without doubts, Cleveland and Chicago. Image 8 is Houston and 10 is Milwaukee. That leaves the following images with doubtful attachements: 2, 3, 7, 9, 11, and 12. We know there are casques in St. Louis and Canada. [b]Beyond that, we don't know anything[/b for certain, despite what we've uncovered. And as I've demonstrated, latitude and longitude numbers are not reliably useful in all images.

shecrab wrote:: For instance, you have almost all agreed that Image 1 is San Francisco. Well, it might be. But it ALSO might be Point Reyes, California. There are two very distinct sets of latitudes and longitudes in that image, neither of which is definitive. Look at the sides of the curly hair--on one side you have 38 and on the other you have 37. That is a significant difference. On the apron the girl wears, you have two sets of longitude: on one side of the dragon you have 122, and on the other, 123. That means that there are four ways of making latitude and longitude. 37+122, 37+123, 38+122, and 38+123. For each of these locations you will get: 37-122 = Just south of SF, in a place nearer to Santa Cruz CA 37-123 = in the ocean, southwest of San Francisco 38-122 = Just northeast of Concord CA 38-123 = Point Reyes, CA Yes for the purpose of this hunt I consider SF to include all those places including Oakland, Alameda, Berkley and the Marin Headland. It would be more accurate to say Image 1 indicates the Bay Area, but SF is easier to type. So when considering verses, I am looking in all those areas.

I still like P9 as our Canadian P...

boogieman wrote:: Yup.  no matter how tight we try to keep the forum, something always gets mixed up.  Inevitable? Scotty, in general, what about the dog leg in image9 clues you into the 1904 World's fair in St Louis? searching dogtown : http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... own+st+lou found this site in the search, wow! dogtown it is,Bob Corbett is the man http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/dogtow ... html#links looked at a couple of links, cant make date out on the pics here, 1966/76 http://www.usgennet.org/usa/mo/county/s ... splate.htm this man Bob Corbett, is the local historian on dogtown http://www.webster.edu/~corbetre/dogtow ... patch.html will move this to p-9 also forgot to mention this seems to dump my therory on v-2, oh well nothing like starting over

But it's not a dog eating the leg. It's probably a lion. And the leg always has a hoof, so that can't be a dog either. This isn't just an opinion - we established it a long time ago by researching the origins of that lamp base from Montreal (which is a 100% match). Speaking of which, we had a series of messages in the Image 9 thread back in April/May 2007 where I reported tons of research to discover who manufactured the lamppost in Montreal, looking for clues that might lead us to other such lamps in diggable places. If anyone here lives near Philadelphia, PA, Winterthur, DE, or Washington, DC and wouldn't mind making a run to a library to look through some dusty tomes in search of hidden treasure, please let me know. I have call numbers for J. W. Fiske catalogs that may provide more clues to the purchasers of similar lamps. THAT, in turn can lead us to a city and maybe even a square foot with a big "X" on it, if you know what I mean.

YES the lamp base is what makes me think this could be the clue to the worlds fair. The far bigger issue is if this is not the STL image what is their realy is not another one with as much clues to STL.

scottrocks7 wrote:: YES the lamp base is what makes me think this could be the clue to the worlds fair. The far bigger issue is if this is not the STL image what is their realy is not another one with as much clues to STL. that could be true in the area you are searching but it is possible that in another area of town another verse works perfectly and leads to a casque. No way of knowing at this point.

hi not sure what a lion eating what is, sorry have not read all the threads p-9 says stl because  purina was founded there, and the co. started on feed for horse and later dog feed, this is why you, see a dog and a horse leg and checkers,so you know it is stl. here are links to history, by the way, second link says ,purina bought the blues in 1977. i think p-9 is stl, but no pos on verse, or park. at least for me, i had thought v-2 because, of fays delight line, i think of king kong , i thought the zoo area with the big ape sculpt,and then Flowers for Algernon which i think was lower manhatton,n.y.. but found nothing else for, flowers to go with v-2 the link for dogtown is good if, it is in stl, im sure dude has lots of info, dogtown is called this because of purina, and a racetrack for dogs is what i think, i read in dogtown link p-9 STL..........V-? http://www.agribrands.com/launch.aspx?S ... eae545e72e http://www.purina.com/company/History.aspx Ralston acquires Missouri Arena Corporation and the St. Louis Blues National Hockey League franchise. in 1977

It's not a dog, and it's not a dog-LEG. And that's not the ST. Louis Blues logo. The picture of the Leg-eating animal is an exact match for a lamp base made at the turn of the century. It depicts a large CAT of some kind--either cougar, lion or puma--with a hoofed animal's leg protruding from it's mouth.

p-9 is a hoofed animal, looks horse, and animal above the hoof is a dog please show me link to th lamp or whatever it is you guys are talking about, as i can not find it, im aware that  2 pics seem exacat, but till another , is found who can say for sure

Go to p. 44 of the "Image 9" thread. It's a good place to start. The real bomb was dropped August 11, 2006 by ravel07 in that thread, but the photo is gone from his post.

forest_blight wrote:: Go to p. 44 of the "Image 9" thread. It's a good place to start. The real bomb was dropped August 11, 2006 by ravel07 in that thread, but the photo is gone from his post. The image appears to be there for me.  The link is http://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/legeater11.jpg

For those of you who - like me - tried and gave up on it long ago, Menagerie has finally been solved. The puzzle and the solution were absolutely brilliant, a model for other treasure hunts to follow. Of course, compared to The Secret it was easy. It only took them 3 years!

If they had sold more copies of the Secret close to the casque sites they may have had better luck.

Just thinking out loud (so to speak) and projecting roanoke is correct... The chicago verse references a street/ave, (where M&B are set in stone and congress) (describing the roads that go on two sides of the park) The Clevland verse  states , as the road curves... (describing bellfower blvd as it runs into the park) The roanoke verse - Ride the man of oz and the road that leads to a dark forest. (describing the roads that lead into the park) So that indicates to me in the verse, there needs to be a reference to a nearby local road leading to the location or bordering it.... even more than that in all 3 the road clue is very very early in the verse, - within the first 3 lines... something to extrapolate to future verse solves...

That is a good observation.  Don't forget, not only did the Cleveland V describes the curving of the road, it also had a sort of rhebus puzzle in P4, below the arch and between the columns,  leading us to Bellflower. now if only we could find Lane 222

Good thought! Let's see if we can extract road names / references from these "first lines": V1 Fortress north (road name? e.g. Castle St.?) Cold as glass Friendship south (road name? e.g. Amity Blvd.?) V2 At the place where jewels abound (possible road reference? e.g. Ruby Ln.? See N.O. thread) Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end V3 If Thucydides is North of Xenophon (hmm, references to roads? that would make a lot of sense) Take five steps In the area of his direction V4 Beneath two countries As the road curves (Parkgate Ave. curves right around the Italian and Greek gardens) (incidentally, MLK Jr. Dr. was still named Liberty Street in 1981, hence the "L bell" in P4; "Bellflower" is far away to the SE, and has nothing to do with it) V5 Lane Two twenty two (likely, but not necessarily, a road) V6 Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old (Pirate Ave? Blackbeard Blvd?) V7 At stone wall's door The air smells sweet (this could be a road reference) V8 View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world (this could be a road reference) At a distance in time From three who lived there (there are streets named after people who lived there) V9 The first chapter Written in water Near men With wind rose (sorry, I'm just not seeing it with this verse) V10 In the shadow Of the grey giant Find the arm that Extends over the slender path V11 Pass two friends of octave In December Ride the man of oz To the land near the window There's a road that leads to (almost certainly Hwy. 64) Dark forest V12 Where M and B are set in stone And to Congress , R is known (Congress is the road)

forest_blight wrote:: Go to p. 44 of the "Image 9" thread. It's a good place to start. The real bomb was dropped August 11, 2006 by ravel07 in that thread, but the photo is gone from his post. thanks for the link i see it, and finding another would be, just WOW. i started looking around the area, and found this http://www.aviewoncities.com/montreal/s ... .htm  a park named st louis, a few blocks from the legeater and a park just a few from there mt royle may need further study

cw0909... Wow is right! BP could really have been having a lot of fun, being able to truthfully say that there is a casque in Canada (Montreal) and in "St. Louis", Montreal. These are just a few photos in that park Sq. St-Louis in Montreal.... I cannot make out the writing on the base of the statue. AP

2fast4u2c suggested that Park (Carre St. Louis or Saint Louis Square) a year and a half ago. It's possible, but there just isn't much there.

...except for those silly little connections you and I very briefly discussed over lunch long ago... at that time, I was excited to know that there was the St. Louis Cathedral in Jackson Sq New Orleans...and wondered if all of the casque sites may be connected somehow.

Too true, fox. Maybe the other 10 are all buried in Jackson Square! That certainly would make our task easier...

i emailed a friend that lives in st louis,mo., the legeater jpeg and asked him while he does his daily life, if he could keep an eye out for a lamp post like that. you never know, if you see something like that, you will remember, you saw it

forest_blight wrote:: Too true, fox. Maybe the other 10 are all buried in Jackson Square! That certainly would make our task easier... In that case, everyone grab a digging utensil and meet me in N.O.

did anybody notice in the photo of the legeater the building in the background (niche, included) lines up with the wierd object (not counting the umbrella shapes)

yes thats why i went looking around close by, and found the park, another park not far from st louis, is mt royal, has a pond, and trails. link to park and the pdfs http://www.lemontroyal.qc.ca/en_carte/index.html on the trail map upper right corner, kinda looks like the nose and neck line. not enough though just kinda

Hello everyone.  I haven't posted anything for several months, and really have only read part of the posts sporadically, due to certain personal problems with which I have been dealing.  However, I am very excited to have just learned (through a telephone call) that a special guest will be posting on these boards soon, and I just thought you should all stay tuned.............. Hope all is well with everyone.

Thanks for the heads-up, Egbert! AP

Intriguing!

Egbert wrote:: Hello everyone.  I haven't posted anything for several months, and really have only read part of the posts sporadically, due to certain personal problems with which I have been dealing.  However, I am very excited to have just learned (through a telephone call) that a special guest will be posting on these boards soon, and I just thought you should all stay tuned..............   🙂 Hope all is well with everyone. FINALLY!!  Internet in heaven.  Its about time!

How do we know it's Heaven?????

If their is then I need to ask about Forest Park and Pagoda Circle.

Well, we now know it wasn't Heaven for sure. BTW: I've posted a summary idea under the thread for Verse 5, if any of you care to read and comment.

Egbert wrote:: However, I am very excited to have just learned (through a telephone call) that a special guest will be posting on these boards soon, and I just thought you should all stay tuned..............   🙂 Hope all is well with everyone. With this extended absence from these boards...I would say the special guest has already posted Sir Egg

forest, i think: V11 Pass two friends of octave In December                                            ......................is NC 12 Ride the man of oz To the land near the window There's a road that leads to (almost certainly Hwy. 64) Dark forest i noticed long ago that in the solved ones, in the first lines there was a play on words to mean a road.

I think you are 100% correct. NC12 starts at Kitty Hawk, and heads south. This explains the december reference and starts us at kitty hawk and takes us past it heading south along the Virginia dare highway... This fits in excellently with the solved solutions.

slappybuns wrote:: Pass two friends of octave I don't think this refers to a person.  Everytime BP mentions a real person in any of the verses he always capitalizes the first letter of the word as you should with a proper noun.  octave isn't capitalized so despite the fact that the WB had a friend named Octavius I don't think this is what it refers to.

I really like the NC12 theory. Nice one. Also, Chanute's name was literally "Octave," not "Octavius."

Here is the revised "road" list, with slappybuns' addition: V1 Fortress north (road name? e.g. Castle St.?) Cold as glass Friendship south (road name? e.g. Amity Blvd.?) V2 At the place where jewels abound (possible road reference? e.g. Ruby Ln.? See N.O. thread) Fifteen rows down to the ground In the middle of twenty-one From end to end V3 If Thucydides is North of Xenophon (hmm, references to roads? that would make a lot of sense) Take five steps In the area of his direction V4 Beneath two countries As the road curves (Parkgate Ave. curves right around the Italian and Greek gardens) (incidentally, MLK Jr. Dr. was still named Liberty Street in 1981, hence the "L bell" in P4; "Bellflower" is far away to the SE, and has nothing to do with it) V5 Lane Two twenty two (2/22... Washington's Birthday? Washington Lane??) V6 Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old (Pirate Ave? Blackbeard Blvd?) V7 At stone wall's door The air smells sweet (this could be a road reference) V8 View the three stories of Mitchell As you walk the beating of the world (this could be a road reference) At a distance in time From three who lived there (there are streets named after people who lived there) V9 The first chapter Written in water Near men With wind rose (sorry, I'm just not seeing it with this verse) V10 In the shadow Of the grey giant Find the arm that Extends over the slender path V11 Pass two friends of octave In December (NC 12) Ride the man of oz To the land near the window There's a road that leads to (almost certainly Hwy. 64) Dark forest V12 Where M and B are set in stone And to Congress, R is known (Congress is the road)

digger7 wrote:: I don't think this refers to a person.  Everytime BP mentions a real person in any of the verses he always capitalizes the first letter of the word as you should with a proper noun.  octave isn't capitalized so despite the fact that the WB had a friend named Octavius I don't think this is what it refers to. Careful with generalizations, 2 known verses only have mention 3 names by name, one name Lincoln, is merely mentioned by initial (capitalized, thats true) It could be a red herring, and octave could allude to music, but with the very elegant road solution = nc12 (known verses refer to a road in the first few lines...) it sure resolves nicely...

Unknown: areful with generalizations, 2 known verses only have mention 3 names by name, one name Lincoln, is merely mentioned by initial (capitalized, thats true) Only 2 verses... ?? Huh??? All the names are capitalized--when they're names. That's not a generalization at all! To wit: Verse 1: December Verse 2: (no names) Verse 3: Thucydides, Xenophon Verse 4: Socrates, Pindar, Apelles Verse 5: (no names) Verse 6: Edwin, Edwina, May --- and also the word *Fair* (hmmm.....the "Fair remuneration?" Something from a Fair maybe?) Verse 7: Twain Verse 8: Mitchell Verse 9: (no names) Verse 10: Indies, Hard, B Verse 11: December, July, August----but not oz!! and not octave either! Why NOT? Verse 12: M, B, Congress, R, L,  Fair Folks' Preiss was an editor and publisher--he would be conditioned to print a proper noun properly capitalized. I wonder why he did NOT print octave and oz with caps--and why hard and fair were. This seems more than just generalized convention--it seems significant. I think I found why hard was--because it was extremely significant in the description of the person (IMO, Jacques Cartier); but why 'fair' ? Octave means 'range of eight.' that can be eight of anything. Eight music notes, sure--but eight shoe sizes, or eight fenceposts, or eight graduated-size widgets. Why use December to mean 12  and not octave to mean 8?

shecrab - My theory for why "octave" was not capitalized is that, if BP *had* capitalized it, that would be a sure giveaway that we should be looking for someone named "Octave." Leaving it in lowercase provides a little misdirection. Avoiding the obvious interpretation (group of eight) is the leap of intellect the reader has to perform to get it right. That's my theory, anyway.

And you would be correct, probably. (If that's what it is.) But why not capitalize Oz, then?

Ah, now that's a good question! Perhaps for the same reason, but there is less ambiguity about what "oz" means than about "octave." "Ounce," maybe, but you'd (a) expect it to have a period after it or (b) need "Man of... ounce(?)" to mean something for the double meaning to cause misdirection. But there's really only one clear interpretation of "oz," and that's the land across the Nonestic Ocean. Maybe the double-meaning he intended (if that is the case) was to get people thinking "wizard," because he's probably the first "man of oz" to leap to mind, but then you'd expect him to have capitalized it. I don't know about that one.

Unknown: Preiss was an editor and publisher--he would be conditioned to print a proper noun properly capitalized. I wonder why he did NOT print octave and oz with caps--and why hard and fair were. This seems more than just generalized convention--it seems significant. I think I found why hard was--because it was extremely significant in the description of the person (IMO, Jacques Cartier); but why 'fair' ? "Hard" I agree is weird to capitalize (so is "Vols."), but I think he capitalized "Fair" because of the special role the Fair Folk play in The Secret . It's also capitalized in V12. So "Fair remuneration" might mean "Fair Folks' treasure."

in other cases when he wanted to obscure a name he just used the first letter of the name: M=Mozart, B=Beethoven, L=Lincoln, and isle of B=????? If he meant Octavius here why wouldn't he do the same thing?

Probably because it would be too obscure.

shecrab wrote:: Only 2 verses... ?? Huh??? All the names are capitalized--when they're names. That's not a generalization at all! To wit: Yup, only 2 verses that you know have names that refer to people. until you solve a pix/verse and find another casque, you are merely surmising that the names in the other verses are names of people and not some other kind of clue... For example in verse 7 Twain is capitalized and probably means Mark Twain, Unless it means two figures on the totem pole, or is some other obscure reference. To assume (at this point) capitalization means Person is generalizing and could lead to making an erroneous conclusion. I think BP was clever enough to mislead by red herrings on purpose, including mis-capitalizations.

forest_blight wrote:: "Hard" I agree is weird to capitalize (so is "Vols."), but I think he capitalized "Fair" because of the special role the Fair Folk play in The Secret . It's also capitalized in V12. So "Fair remuneration" might mean "Fair Folks' treasure." True enough...but he used it in other places UNcapitalized. Ah well--it's probably useless to try to figure this out. I'm beginning to think--no I take that back---I've been thinking this for a while now--that Preiss was probably writing these off the cuff a lot of times. I remind myself that he got his start at the Harvard Lampoon---and I have only recently bought a whole bunch of old National Lampoon magazines from the 70's, when some of the contributors to the Secret were on the staff or contributing. I forgot how utterly clever they used to be then--and how obscurely humorous at times. No doubt this was pretty much Preiss's demeanor too.

National Lampoon magazines from the 70's, when some of the contributors to the Secret were on the staff or contributing. I forgot how utterly clever they used to be then--and how obscurely humorous at times. No doubt this was pretty much Preiss's demeanor too. funny i thought about something, along the lines of, MJ talking to HERB about BUD, is why some things in the verses seem off, just because of that National Lampoon connection, about a week or so ago ahh nothing just that generation time thought thingy

forest, in verse 5, you didn't put..........washington street, i remember someone said that long time ago, about washington's birthday being february 22nd.  that would fit in with the others, tho' i know they might not all be the same, and probably aren't, still, something to keep in mind, right?

Good point - went back and changed it.

i was looking up  Byron Preiss , to see some more of his work and found this. not sure what to make of it, as maybe if the answers to secret are in his stuff, im not sure what the new owner would do with the info a new twist to ponder i guess http://pwbeat.publishersweekly.com/blog ... -for-150k/ i just fig this is an older story and this co. bought the assets still i wonder if any of the secert is in those assets http://www.publishersweekly.com/article/CA6399935.html

http://www.bricktowerpress.com/ note the link for BPVP. maybe we ought to contact him to look through the stuff for the secret folder! wilhouse check that, I did!

wilhouse wrote:: check that, I did! You did what?  Contact them?  Can't wait to hear their reply.  Be careful though, you may just get all of the answers to the hunt...do you want that?

wilhouse wrote:: maybe we ought to contact him to look through the stuff for the secret folder! I have a question for everyone.  If the solutions were made available would you want them?  I personally would but that is just me.

That would utterly spoil the fun.

Posted on: Yesterday at 06:45:12 pmPosted by: wilhouse Insert Quote http://www.bricktowerpress.com/ note the link for BPVP. maybe we ought to contact him to look through the stuff for the secret folder! wilhouse check that, I did! -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Re: General Questions « Reply #281 on: Today at 04:01:32 pm » -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- That would utterly spoil the fun. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- im with fb if someone does get the soultions i would rather not know the answers i asked because since it is maybe now owned, by these folks i was just wondering what, they would do say if someone found it and tried to turn it in for prize or would they maybe try to make a few $$$ off it somehow they being the co. that may own it

I would want ONE of them. Image 3. I want the solution to that one. The rest I'll guess at.

If you say you don't want the answers handed to you, might you at least want some feedback on what we think we know now?  I personally would love to know whether the totem pole statue in Golden Gate park was indeed the solution to the San Francisco treasure, to confirm that it was indeed lost in the trenching; or on the contrary, to rule out all of our current theories and start with renewed purpose.

catherwood wrote:: If you say you don't want the answers handed to you, might you at least want some feedback on what we think we know now?  I personally would love to know whether the totem pole statue in Golden Gate park was indeed the solution to the San Francisco treasure, to confirm that it was indeed lost in the trenching; or on the contrary, to rule out all of our current theories and start with renewed purpose. indeed the question was to invoke feedback, as the possibilities of ownership seem to be endles so the more disscusion the better i still dont want the answers outright though, as fb said takes the fun out who knows maybe willhouses' email will make it an offical hunt again

it's the mystery that's got me hooked.  i guess if someone got the answers,  they'd go get the casques, so i guess i would want to know then. i hope it doesn't end that way.

I dont hold out much hope for this at all. A, I wouldnt want someone to just come out with the answers. B, They  bought BP's company, but it seems to me, the info on the secret was in his personal stuff. So I kind of doubt they got anything besides the book. C, Part of the elegance of this hunt is the secrets have been kept... If somone new learns the solutions it cheapens it...

Unknown: , Part of the elegance of this hunt is the secrets have been kept... If somone new learns the solutions it cheapens it... this is not an argument, so please don't take it personally... ...I don't think finding the answer to a puzzle can cheapen the puzzle in any way. Puzzles are not meant to be UNsolved, but SOLVED. Eventually. 30 years is a very long time to wait for a solution, and if circumstances had not intervened, we would not be here now wondering where 10 worthless casques are buried; yes, I said worthless. The casques do not contain the jewels, only keys which were to be traded in for jewels.  Intrinsically they have extremely little value--maybe none at all if damaged.  It is the very purpose of this part of the forum to try to solve the riddles in the verses and images, not to claim the prizes. How can the answers cheapen that?  no one would be forced to look at the answers if they did not want to.

shecrab wrote:: 30 years is a very long time to wait for a solution, and if circumstances had not intervened, we would not be here now wondering where 10 worthless casques are buried; It is the very purpose of this part of the forum to try to solve the riddles in the verses and images, not to claim the prizes. How can the answers cheapen that?  no one would be forced to look at the answers if they did not want to. What circumstances intervened? BP indicated he was not going to release the answers. His death didn't change that. If he were still alive, we would be exactly where we are now. Pestering him for clues or confirmers would have just made him less likely to communicate. If as you say, It is the very purpose of this forum to try to SOLVE the riddles, releasing the answers would cheapen the process and kill the hunt, Even if you didn't,  How would you know the next person didn't cheat, a little or a lot.... If the answers became available, there would be a quick rush to go dig up the casques rather then continue to work on the puzzles... Monetarily valuable or not, broken or whole, the casques are a piece of literary history, all the locations would be dug up the day the locations were known... There would be some on ebay before the next day. You say they are worthless?, So if the St Louis casque was on ebay for 10$ you wouldn't bid? I would, therefore they at least have a value of $10.00. Ask Eggbert how much he would sell his for... I bet I couldn't afford it... They might be ugly, cheaply made, and broken but worthless? hardly... and the more effort we put into finding them the more it will be worth. If I found one I would never sell it, making it priceless, at least to me. So yes finding the answers or getting hints cheapens the hunt.

If BP took such care in creating this for everyone to enjoy and went to the grave knowing these were not yet solved and chose through the years not to reveal the secrets, then I say it is our duty,... nay... our Privledge to solve them in his memory and for the glory of the hunt.

what he said!

^5

Cormac wrote:: then I say it is our duty,... nay... our Privledge to solve them in his memory and for the glory of the hunt. ...love it! {playing inspirational music}

Unknown: If as you say, It is the very purpose of this forum to try to SOLVE the riddles, releasing the answers would cheapen the process and kill the hunt, Even if you didn't,  How would you know the next person didn't cheat, a little or a lot.... If the answers became available, there would be a quick rush to go dig up the casques rather then continue to work on the puzzles... Unknown: Monetarily valuable or not, broken or whole, the casques are a piece of literary history, all the locations would be dug up the day the locations were known... There would be some on ebay before the next day. Unknown: You say they are worthless?, So if the St Louis casque was on ebay for 10$ you wouldn't bid? I would, therefore they at least have a value of $10.00. Ask Eggbert how much he would sell his for... I bet I couldn't afford it... They might be ugly, cheaply made, and broken but worthless? hardly... and the more effort we put into finding them the more it will be worth. If I found one I would never sell it, making it priceless, at least to me. The point is really irrelevant. The answers are up to us. Not Preiss. He can't give them to us. I said I would look at them if they were available and I still say that--I don't care what anyone else does or does not do--it does nothing to diminish any part of the puzzle for me to know the answers are available. I am a charter subscriber to Games Magazine--which has always had the answers to every puzzle it prints in the back. That has never stopped me from enjoying the process of uncovering them on my own. And I don't cheat. Nonsense. Outside of this forum, who cares? I wouldn't sell mine either, probably, but not because I wanted so badly to own it. They really ARE worthless, intrinsically--and that's what I said---that they had NO INTRINSIC value. 1 I never said they weren't worth a price beyond rubies to anyone else who wants them.  The casques were not the "prize" for this hunt--the jewels were. THOSE have intrinsic value.  But what is valued by one is not necessarily valued by another. I'll bet the casques wouldn't fetch a sou on eBay. Unless all the bidders were members of this forum. That really doesn't matter does it? [shrug] 1 in·trin·sic    (ĭn-trĭn'zĭk, -sĭk)  adj. Of or relating to the essential nature of a thing; inherent.

I haven't heard anything to date. Here's what I would like:  according to the book, if you think you know where the casque is, you can send the information to someone (Preiss at the time) and you can find out if you were correct. Preiss gave that up and couldn't help much as he couldn't find the answers. It'd be nice if someone took over that role.  Theoretically it could be the new publisher. Whether he has the answers will determine if there is a next step... Right now I have not heard anything... wilhouse

Mighty quiet out there...

Cormac, I put it down to Post-election Syndrome ... AP

It looks like the forum got hacked. Did you see all the crap posts in the Menagerie threads?

i'm here, computer was sick, listening to everything you all say just getting lost in the fair folks guide.

I just watched an episode of Mega Movers and they were showing an episode where they were moving the 982 locomotive from Hermann Park to MinuteMaid Stadium.  I thought I saw one of the workers kick aside a small plexiglass box.   No, just kidding but it was pretty cool watching them move the train.

Unknown: I thought I saw one of the workers kick aside a small plexiglass box. You kidder. Can you imagine??

OK!!!! Who started a chat room and neglected to invite me? Wayyyy too quiet in here.

I just figured they were all digging before the weather stars getting colder.

I'm here...but busy. Writing my 3rd novel.

Are you doing nanoWrimo?

Sure am...I'm just about exactly half-way. Just a few over 25K words. I should be able to finish up easily enough--though we've all heard of "famous last words." Mine may be "not famous and NO last words." LOL... It's coming along pretty well, though. I had only the barest of plot points to start with, and now I'm totally immersed. Wish me luck!

Good Luck shecrab!! are you doing it too malted?

Is it about an intrepid band of treasure-seekers who finally solve a complex, decades-old riddle and win a fortune in jewels? If so, can I be in it??

me too me too! i must be way out of the loop because i have no idea what you guys are talking about.

Unknown: Is it about an intrepid band of treasure-seekers who finally solve a complex, decades-old riddle and win a fortune in jewels? If so, can I be in it?? Unknown: me too me too! i must be way out of the loop because i have no idea what you guys are talking about. LOL!!!! NANOWRIMO: Na tional No vel Wri ting Mo nth. Every November. You pledge to have a 50K word novel written from November 1-30. There's a website: nanowrimo.org that will explain all about it. No prizes--well, sort of--there are many accolades and there are also some benefits (like I'm getting a real free book out of it if I finish!) but other than that, it's just so you can say you did it. I already knew I could do it--I've already written two other books--but never entered this competition before. It's a lot of fun, actually--you sign up (anytime! Even now!) and you get weekly pep talks, there's a forum, and you can add "writing buddies and pick a region to get to know people from. And I wish I'd had this plot line before I started, because the one I DID have has taken on a life of its own, and it's much harder! I'm actually having to do research. I had the barest of threads to begin with--and now I have a full-fledged story that is motoring along very nicely!  You may all go and see if you like--there's an excerpt on the site. My "author name" is Shecrab. (go figure!)  Just look me up. Next year----I'll put you all in it!! Back to the keyboard!

Shecrab, Just read your excerpt...You are indeed talented. Life seems to have given you a some great "novel-fodder". ("Life....don't talk to me about life!"...to quote one of my favorite book characters....) Seriously, you have what it takes to succeed in this field. Keep it up!.. AP

xlurker wrote:: Who started a chat room and neglected to invite me? maybe we should start a chat room........just a thought

Thank you AP!!! I really appreciate the kind words! If you know of any publishers looking for material....

animal painter wrote:: Shecrab, Just read your excerpt...You are indeed talented. Ditto!!! Go Go Go! I too am nanowrimoing, I think this is my 4th or 5th year  This time I will make it!!!! I have been so busy writing I havent updated my count yet....  trying not to look...

Hey MF!!!! What's your handle on NANO? I'll add you as a writing buddy! You can add me too...shecrab. GOOD LUCK TO YOU!! I hope you make it! I'm rootin' for ya!

maltedfalcon 23500

forest_blight wrote:: Is it about an intrepid band of treasure-seekers who finally solve a complex, decades-old riddle and win a fortune in jewels? If so, can I be in it?? Does it have a treasure hunter who convinces a local zoo to use a bulldozer to help hunt for treasure, but instead busts a water line and floods the zoo?? wilhouse

now that i would read wilhouse! i think shecrab is staying away from a comedy however.

How about a mystery/thriller?  Mad scientist-type author buries ceramic boxes, leaves clues, dies, no solutions can be found, and about 50 people from around the world frantically search for the worthless treasures.  Nah, too unbelievable.

fox wrote:: now that i would read wilhouse! i think shecrab is staying away from a comedy however. yeah...this time I am. But not next time.... I think it actually might make a viable plot. BUahahahahaha!!!

wilhouse wrote:: more like this "The confirmer images were right here...I swear!"

nice. now you're just making me feel bad... wilhouse

I DID IT. I made it to 50K words, and I'm still writing! HOORAY!! C'mon Malted!! I know you can do it!

WaHOOOO!  Way to go, Shecrab!

ok I am truly truly impressed. its not even thanksgiving wow

Can we read it?

Congratulations!!

Cormac wrote:: Can we read it? If you want to, sure! I would like to wait until after Dec. 1, however. I'm going to be working on a self-publish deal then. I'll let you know where and when the ms will be available. That's one of the greatest compliments I've ever gotten! Thanks to everyone who gave me encouragement!!

give us the link! I'd buy the ebook!! wilhouse

Wow...thank you! As soon as I get something set up, I'll let you all know.

Wait Wait, December is National Novel Editing Month..... January is National Novel Self Publishing Month

the chicago find was in Grant Park (grant, 18th president), and the cleveland find was in roosevelt park, right? (franklin, 32nd president, theodore, 26th) could this be a link, that it will be a park named after a president?

slappybuns wrote:: the chicago find was in Grant Park (grant, 18th president), and the cleveland find was in roosevelt park, right? (franklin, 32nd president, theodore, 26th) could this be a link, that it will be a park named after a president? I like that - the SF casque could then be possibly in lincoln park... but what about houston, and the canadian casque....

slappybuns wrote:: the chicago find was in Grant Park (grant, 18th president), and the cleveland find was in roosevelt park, right? (franklin, 32nd president, theodore, 26th) could this be a link, that it will be a park named after a president? Houston's is (was) in Hermann Park -- named, of course, after our 18 1/2th president, Winchester P. Hermann III.  Milwaukee's is most certainly in Lake Park, which, incidentally, was not named after a president, but America's first Native American god-king, Fearsome Bear of Raging Lake.  The natives called him "Ol' Lakesy" for short.

slappybuns wrote:: the chicago find was in Grant Park (grant, 18th president), and the cleveland find was in roosevelt park, right? (franklin, 32nd president, theodore, 26th) could this be a link, that it will be a park named after a president? I thought the Cleveland find was in the Cleveland Cultural Gardens.  Never heard of it being the Roosevelt Park....

hmmm, i just read that somewhere about roosevelt park, i think it was during a search, i'll look again, try to find it.... lol, bigmatty! i'm sorry guys,  i just write things that pop in my head without thinking them through.

yes the Cleveland Cultural Gardens is in  Roosevelt Park, the park covers both sides of MLK blvd i think our severance hall is in the park also, you might want to check that though great idea about the parks named after a president

The cultural gardens has many small gardens in roosevelt park

always wondered how he picked the parks, the  president park theme, seems as likely as any slappy good idea worth looking in to, but then we have N.O. that park has Ben F. so maybe its not just only a park named for a president, but something in the park as well in battery park, there is an  EISENHOWER MALL http://www.nycgovparks.org/sub_newsroom ... p?id=14978

If you look at major parks in major cities in the US, a good percentage of them will be named after former presidents and statesmen.  So it's pretty likely that some of the casques will be buried in parks named after presidents.

cw0909 wrote:: always wondered how he picked the parks, Ole Lakesy... that is tooo darn funny.  I like this line of thought...not because it is right but because it is something brand new.  I have to agree though...I think that a lot of major parks are named after Presidents/Statesmen... I am more inclined to believe that he chose his cities first and foremost...possibly following the immigration theme, and then found a nice park with several visual confirmers located within.

whew! i'm glad someone knew, thanks cw! i did a search on this board but couldn't find where i'd read about roosevelt park. bigmatty's right, the presidents are everywhere, just like columbus......but there is roosevelt mall in storyland too

fox i agree city first then park, i cant seem to find a presidents connect for N.O. or houston slappy i think the finder of the cleve  casque said it was roosevelt park

I was wondering if there might be a semi-linear path, like BP taking you on a tour... Has anyone mapped out the found clues to the two that were found? I was thinking about this when looking at some of the clues relating to the Montreal theory and Boston

yes in the two found instance you travel several miles along a road without turning from an iconic image in the painting. Then you turn left and left again to reach the destination...

Where they fairly even intervals, or randomly spaced?

maltedfalcon wrote:: yes in the two found instance you travel several miles along a road without turning from an iconic image in the painting. Then you turn left and left again to reach the destination... If you put that theory to verse10, use the WTC tower two as the iconic image, go south on Washington street about 1/2 a mile to 3/4 of a mile and you come to Battery Park. Make a left, two blocks to the end. Make another left and it takes you to Bowling Green Park across from the US Customs House.  Wallah!

sorry

Would anyone be willing to create and post a local map showing the known hint locations for each of the two that were found?

Happy New Year to One and All !

Hear, hear!  I hope everyone had happy holidays and that the new year will bring joy and happiness to all of us.

if the shape of the park is somewhere in the images, like the Fountain of Youth park in florida, then i think the golden gate park in san francisco has to be it for image 1, and i'm wondering since, the lady in image 12 reminds me so much of the shape of prospect park in new york, maybe that's the place......?

slappybuns wrote:: if the shape of the park is somewhere in the images, like the Fountain of Youth park in florida, then i think the golden gate park in san francisco has to be it for image 1, and i'm wondering since, the lady in image 12 reminds me so much of the shape of prospect park in new york, maybe that's the place......? But in image 1 is GGpark the iconic image that is  the start of the hunt or is it the image of the treasure location. both are possible, yet could be miles apart.

maltedfalcon wrote:: yes in the two found instance you travel several miles along a road without turning from an iconic image in the painting. Then you turn left and left again to reach the destination... so for the charleston one you'd come down "king street" (the lion being the icon", go all the way to the end, and turn left into white point gardens

No postings on the Secret site since April 1?  Did everybody loose intrest?  Anybody out there?

Kato wrote:: No postings on the Secret site since April 1?   Did everybody loose intrest?  Anybody out there? I'm out here, and i read the forum every day.  I just have nothing to contribute.  Have I lost interest?  Yes.  The probability of finding these treasures now is just too low.  Time has passed, the landmarks have changed, the earth itself has shifted around most of these sites. I've bought "The Clock without a Face", in which there are twelve new treasures to be found.  That will keep my interest for a while.

Catherwood, My daughter sent me "The Clock Without A Face" for Mothers' Day. I have not yet had a chance to read it.  Looks like fun. Tweleve has a forum started for discussing it. AP

I'm still interested, but haven't had any time to do anything lately. Maybe this summer I'll revitalize my research a bit. I read the forum every day too.

still here,and google walking, ,  around the legeater area, looking for clues doing the clock without a face, threw my back out,so no travleing very far might have a friend, talked into probing behind the big gate, at the pots near the entrance of  The Elizabethan Gardens, she is going in june happy mothers day to all legeater http://maps.google.com/maps?ie=UTF8&q=m ... loc=A&sa=X

I have also just purchased The Clolck without a Face, but my heart is still with the Secret.  Alas, time to face reality though.  Too much time has passed, and the chance of finding any of these treasures is indeed remote.  Perhaps BP made it too hard to find the casques.  No criticism intended though.  The Secrect is truely a classic, mesmerizing, and addictive treasure hunt. Very challenging too. Anyway, I sure learned a lot from this forum, including history, geography, logic, philosopy,art, as well as a great deal of other arcane subject matter too numerous to mention.  For this I thank all of you , because you made visiting this Secret site educational and entertaining. And also a lot of fun.  Everybody posting here has had terrific ideas, and the ensuing debates about those ideas often advanced viable pathways toward the solutions. I will still continue to monitor this site, but I too am now going to devote more time toward the Clock without a Face enigma.   If I get any ideas about the casques I will post them, and I hope all of you will continue to do the same. Once again, thanks to all for a great ride.

This has nothing to do with The Secret , but it may be of interest to many here. Stercox and I have posted our complete solution to "Quest: In Search of the Dragontooth" (by Michael Green) in a different forum. Those of you who have tried that hunt may be interested in the results of our 4+ years of work on that hunt. http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/http://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewforum.php?f=9.0

Wow, good work! (I picked up a copy of that along with The Secret . At least I won't have to worry about that one now...)

CONGRATULATIONS!!!

Well, thanks Slaps, but it's more of a disappointment. Green kept *not* replying to our solution messages, so we eventually gave up and posted the whole thing online. No Dragontooth for us, and not even the consolation of knowing we were right.

that's just wrong

boogieman wrote:: I once had the %$#*@'s to contact JJP and asked him to maybe help with some clues that were no longer there, parks that had been renovated and landmarks torn down.  How embarrassing on my part.  I'm still cringing.  He responded with a kind and heartfelt email.  He remains loyal to BP and the work they did together.  What he may or may not know will stay with him.  (exact locations were a true secret, even from him).  This was pretty neat, he closed with a quote from Einstien.  "The most beautiful thing we can experience is the mysterious".  He said that it is inspiring that the quest is still going on and he reminds us that "elves can be tricksters you know". Was it obvious to everyone that Palencar was dropping a hint about Keats' Ode to a Nightengale here? "  As she is fam’d to do, deceiving elf. "

The Secret, A treasure Hunt Trivia quiz. No peeking, 1. Who is/are the authors of “The Secret, A treasure Hunt. A. Byron Preiss B. John Jude Palencar C. Sean Kelly/ Ted Mann D. Overton Loyd/ John Pierard 2. What exactly is the secret? 3. Who arrived last to the new world? 4. Why didn’t the Viking elves bring a jewel? 5. Prince Yi, His Wang Mu and Tsao-shen brought something with them, that the fairies thought they  would never see again, what was it? 6. How many Nations of Fairy arrived in the New World? 7. What year was “The Secret, A treasure hunt “ published? 8. Who was Yo-rib of the Yar-on? 8. Vincent helped design the book and cover, who was he? how many did you get before you looked?

I think i get two points. That Archaeological Resources Protections Act of 1979 is a real bugger...people should dig up everything and be done with it already so we can get on with our treasure huntery.

If anybody wants the answers to the trivia quiz let me know I will send them to you in a private message.

I own a White's Coinmaster III metal detector and in an effort to ascertain once and for all if one can sense the casque, I will scan the area before I dig. as I understand it the key actually has a piece of metal in it to give it strength. in the right circumstances it might be detecable if there is no other mineralization in the area. however I believe it is buried against a cement retaining wall- The wall is probably re-inforced with steel rebar which would mask any smaller pieces of metal.

You could do a trial run and bury a similar-sized piece of metal 3.5' deep, and see if your detector can locate it.

oh I did that ages ago and posted about it, (no idea which thread) the answer was no. but then my key was just a key, I had no idea what kind of metal was used int the real one. Aluminum? steel, Copper? I believe egbert described it as "pot" metal - which could be anything. Also I didnt have a plexiglas box (I used a tupperware container. and a flower pot to simulate the box) but that was just an experiment, it will be interesting to see if my experiment was accurate.

which was the post that made me test it again outside of 6" or so it did not register

I noticed Sean Kelly is listed as the author.  Does anyone know is that the same guy who does lots of Dungeons and Dragons publishing?

Not the same. The Secret's Sean Kelly did a lot of publishing but not in that field. He also worked for National Lampoon magazine and other concerns, and currently works in children's television and publishing.

This is kind of a nice summary of some of the work done here.  It is by a guy named Ben Glover.  Not sure who he is. http://www.secrettreasure.co.uk/Boston.pdf

Lol...c'est moi. (Four21thrasher has trounced that Boston theory though.)

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Lol...c'est moi. (Four21thrasher has trounced that Boston theory though.) why is nobody helping me advance?

What more do you need?  I figure you will find everything fits perfectly once you show up to the site with your book and shovel...and a nice shrubbery that you can plant as if you're a well meaning park caring person.

erexere wrote:: What more do you need?  I figure you will find everything fits perfectly once you show up to the site with your book and shovel...and a nice shrubbery that you can plant as if you're a well meaning park caring person. I am not so convinced. Not finding the a block pattern in the wall that matches the image was discouraging (I have good pictures). Finding that a building most probably sat in the park, which had a stone foundation, is also quite discouraging. I've been searching for the building permit, but I am having trouble finding it. Also, my pictures show that if the casque was against the wall, there is now a mean entanglement of tree roots that lies on and well below the surface. I've dug cypress and cedar stumps out before. Not something I enjoy. I am just surprised that after such initially positive feedback nobody is critiquing or adding to my theory.

johann suggested Image10/Verse7 as the St. Louis solution when Preiss emailed the response that "st. louid" was correct but the location was not.  Seems so unusual a pairing given that at this point image10 is solidly Milwaukee and verse7 looks so strongly a fit for SF (or N.O.)

Not saying its right but St Louis has a pretty solid tie in with Jackson Square.

I understand the clay key contained in each casque was intended to be exchanged for the gem, is that right? I'm wondering what more significance the key holds.  I think Preiss should've buried the gems along with each of the casques and be done with it.  Is it simply a security measure to keep the gems safe in a bank vault?  Is there some special significance in using a "key" as the token for exchange? It's easy to assume that keys unlock doors or secrets.  Keys are used in some of the illustrations.  The key in image10 as part of a rebus (and possibly for some other purpose), and the keys in image3 anchoring the lines. As many things as there are that seem to relate to the tops of things, perhaps the hats/skullcaps or helmets that are called "secrets", maybe there's a number of "key" alternatives.  A piano is sometimes called "keys", perhaps that works for the harpsichord reference in verse8.  Keys are also fasteners, pins, or bolts.  Alternatively a key could be a pivotal moment, or a supplemental breakdown of symbols or data as is used in a map legend.

I wonder whether the people behind "The Clock Without A Face" had heard of "The Secret" before designing their own hunt.  Their prizes were physically buried, unique pieces of artwork with (somewhat) valuable gemstones, in small wooden boxes.  Fortunately, they were all found within a year, but even in that time some of the sites suffered from water damage.  They might have benefited from having a claim system using a buried token instead of the treasure. For TCWAF, they clearly said that the treasure belongs to whomever found it, whether they stumbled upon it or solved the clues.  One could argue that "finders keepers" is just as valid as earning it thru solving clues or even showing proof of your solution.  Even with a token system, someone could find one accidentally and take the prize away from the people who really worked for it. Have there been any hunts which required evidence of participation before a prize was awarded?  (Evidence of purchase is sometimes needed, such as a serial number from a book or registration on a website.) Did Egbert need to turn in the key to get his prize, or was he only required to show it?

I think we had to show participation in the Treasure Trove hunts.

erexere wrote:: johann suggested Image10/Verse7 as the St. Louis solution when Preiss emailed the response that "st. louid" was correct but the location was not. Hey Erexere, how did you know this...? Did you ask Johann...?

I read that in the forum. Something about that doesnt seem right though. I mustve misspoke. I thought it was image 9 / verse 2?

That's what I thought, but I wish someone could confirm it...

I can confirm something. This treasure hunt is totally fun except for when you're hungover.

So that's where I've been going wrong.

See my post from Jun 28, 2008 in this thread. It's a list of some (not all) correspondence from BP.

forest_blight wrote:: Some time ago, fox dredged up this correspondence from BP to johann, who had sent him a location in St. Louis. Here it is, warts and all: In response, johann replied: johann - is there any way to pair BP's reply to a specific P, V, or P/V pair? I'm guessing that you had a P/V pair in mind that led you to Tower Grove Park, so when BP said you were correct about St. Louis, was he implicitly confirming your P/V choice? Thanks for that...so no-one knows then...? I don't suppose anyone has a contact for him...? He doesn't answer PMs.

I liked johann's cheery posts. I assume hes moved on.

johann's last post was over 3 years ago. He's one of the greats. Without him, the Cleveland casque might not have been located.

Unknown: He's one of the greats. Without him, the Cleveland casque might not have been located. I agree. I wonder if he is aware of the recent resurgence of interest, and could be convinced to re-engage? Does anyone know his real name, or have any contact information for him? I'm sure still thinks about it. The puzzle is insidious that way.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Thanks for that...so no-one knows then...? I don't suppose anyone has a contact for him...? He doesn't answer PMs. That's the modern map of the Montreal electoral district known as "Westmount-Saint Louis". Granted the borders have changed over the years and I'm working on it, but according to my research (i.e. Wikipedia), this district was formed in 1994 from parts of Saint-Louis, Westmount and Sainte-Anne districts. From 1966 to 1994, the district was simply "St. Louis". Until I can find the exact map of the old 1966-1994 St. Louis district, I'll assume it is the areas of this map not clearly labeled "Westmount" (bottom left) or "Sainte-Anne" (sliver at bottom center). Works for me.

hello i just signed on to this website. i found out about this puzzle on a youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwNPKb9ol8Y Im just wondering if any others have been found. all i know is image 4 verse 4 and image 5 verse 12.

Has anyone had the inclination to study the verses in terms of the verb usages?

angle-less wrote:: hello i just signed on to this website. i found out about this puzzle on a youtube video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwNPKb9ol8Y Im just wondering if any others have been found. all i know is image 4 verse 4 and image 5 verse 12. No. None of the others have been successfully recovered. Depending on who you ask, some may be lost due to rennovation and changes through the decades at various proposed treasure sites.

I'd like to bring a bottle of McCallen 18 to the party when the next casque is found. What would others here like to bring and what city and venue would be coolest?

I'll bring the Devil's lettuce and some loudmouth soup. Montreal of course. Pick your scenic view from atop Mount Royal.

I will buy a bottle of wine for the next person to unearth a casque.

forest_blight wrote:: I will buy a bottle of wine for the next person to unearth a casque. Hi. Trying to get permission to post and the admin doesn't seem to be approving them. Some threads I'm interested are not active. I live in Milwaukee (15 minutes from lake park) and wanted to offer to take updated picture etc. I visited lake park suspected location of image 10/ verse 8 today. I think the statute of general wolcott is important. He is wearing a cloak. Anyway if anyone wants to chat let me know.

You're on!

decibalnyc wrote:: You're on! Post phrased properly when using avatar of Master Yoda, you must.

I have posted a few comments in the verse 10 thread but not sure who the moderator is but they have not been put in. Who do I need to contact to get my comments added to the thread?

I'm not sure why your posts aren't showing up. No moderators on this board -- try posting again?

Whats the most conventional way to link a particular post on the boards in the form of a url? Is it only limited to threads after you click in and copy/paste the url?

erexere wrote:: Whats the most conventional way to link a particular post on the boards in the form of a url? Is it only limited to threads after you click in and copy/paste the url? If you click the link above the username in any post, that will give you a link directly to that post.

Thanks Frisco! That ws very helpful. Does anyone have access to an old set or any Audubon Field Guides that were very popular in the late 70's, early 80's? There's so many references to nature (trees, flowers, birds, butterfies, and jewels) in this treasure hunt, I consider it highly likely Byron used those while designing these puzzles. The AFG's were broken down into many different categories, even seashells.

I think I still have some of these, somewhere -- eastern and western wildflowers, and eastern trees.

How is the Secret Clique or Raid Progress? Are You able to say without divulging any secrets that there are any certainties or real progress yet?

Does anyone have any evidence so far that one pace is approximately 1 meter as far as Byron's applications in this treasure hunt?

erexere wrote:: Does anyone have any evidence so far that one pace is approximately 1 meter as far as Byron's applications in this treasure hunt? No.

Unknown: Does anyone have any evidence so far that one pace is approximately 1 meter as far as Byron's applications in this treasure hunt? My guess would be about 30" based on the "walk 100 paces Southeast" and the fact that the distance from below the north Lion Bridge to the edge of the clearing along Lincoln Memorial Drive is about 250' (if we account for twists and turns in the path-"rock and soil"). It's not really relevant for Verse 8, since we are being directed to an identifiable object (the first young birch), but it may inform Verse 5 which is the only other time Preiss uses the word "pace", and where the meaning of the direction is less clear.

If you obtain the mineral rights to a location can you then legally dig for a rare substance known as "Preissium"?

FYI http://www.vice.com/read/the-35-year-lo ... n-treasure

Someone wants to sell a casque. How do they prove it's the real thing, and how should it be sold to the highest bidder? I should clarify that they want to remain anonymous and they don't want to divulge the location it's from or their methods for finding it. For all we know, they used one of the theories on the pbwiki...

erexere wrote:: Someone wants to sell a casque. How do they prove it's the real thing, and how should it be sold to the highest bidder? I should clarify that they want to remain anonymous and they don't want to divulge the location it's from or their methods for finding it. For all we know, they used one of the theories on the pbwiki... Take a picture of it to prove it's real, and put it on ebay to sell it.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Take a picture of it to prove it's real, and put it on ebay to sell it. Im thinking thats probably a good 'nuff way to go about it. eBay takes 9% of the sale up to a maximum of $50.

erexere wrote:: Im thinking thats probably a good 'nuff way to go about it. eBay takes 9% of the sale up to a maximum of $50. For the life of me, I cannot understand how the finder couldn't figure that out themselves; then asked you, and you couldn't figure it out either; then you had to ask this forum.

Its hypothetical. I didnt say someone found a casque. Im asking the forum how it would verify the authenticity. It doesnt look that difficult to forge one. I was recently at a performing arts center and saw a collection of ceramic figures where it was explained that vandals had broke two of them beyond repair so they hired a 3rd party artist to craft replicas. Im thinking at some point given enough interest in the value of this treasure hunt there is the eventuality that someone would go so far as to craft a replica casque. If they didnt tell us where or how they found it, how would we know its real? And how much would someone be willing to pay for it?

erexere wrote:: If they didnt tell us where or how they found it, how would we know its real? And how much would someone be willing to pay for it? The same way we would know a casque ain't in Oregon... common sense and concrete clues.

erexere wrote:: I'm asking the forum how it would verify the authenticity. It doesnt look that difficult to forge one. We can approach that question without the eBay scenario. What if you dig up a casque? How do you know someone didn't forge a replica and bury it in Oregon to match one of your proposed locations. Did the known two casques have other identifying features? I don't recall what else was found with them, such as a note or instructions for the finder. Didn't they also include a ceramic key? If someone duplicates those from images, I would be suspicious if they look too much like the photograph. Wouldn't each piece be unique in some way, to match the theme of its fairy origin? Even then, we don't have pictures of all twelve casques, so we can't be certain of what any of the others looked like. Does the Preiss estate have such documentation? We could debate authenticity, but need to yield to the authority which would award the finder with the associated gem prize. Would even that be sufficient to remove all doubt?

Unknown: How do you know someone didn't forge a replica and bury it in Oregon to match one of your proposed locations First of all, that would be hilarious. But in the real world, we know that no one is going to go to that kind of trouble and expense for the same reason that no one is forging dollar bills. Putting aside the obvious logistical challenges, in the end, it's a losing proposition. Unless of course we overvalue the obvious humor potential. The bottom line is that is a very limited market for one of the casques, assuming that a legitimate finder was even willing to part with it in the first place. More valuable, IMO would be the information we could glean from where, when, and how the casque was unearthed. Someone might be willing to overpay for that, especially if they thought it gave them a leg up on the rest of the people still working on these puzzles. However, we'll just have to wait and see how that information is handled, if/when #3 sees the light of day.

Each casque has 11 unpainted creatures and 1 painted creature, which matches the Image from which it came. Cleveland was the centaur, and Chicago was the troll. Each key in each casque is a different color. Cleveland was orange. Not sure what Chicago was. Under the cover of each casque is a clock, with the time matching the month of the year which the Image represents. Chicago was 5 o'clock, matching May. I am guessing Cleveland says 3 o'clock matching March, but it is in 100 pieces.

Just curious, Eg -- did you ever try reassembling it?

No, it would be a large task. It is not like a jigsaw puzzle. Some of the pieces are tiny thin shards, and others have crumbled to a chalk-like dust. I suppose I could try to put together the larger pieces, but I would need Siskel's large piece to do that. I gave him the largest piece of the cover to keep. He is in New Jersey and I am in Florida. I see him once a year in April, so maybe I can ask to borrow it at that time.

Within a few years you'll be able to photograph all the pieces, solve the puzzle with a smartphone, and 3D print a new casque.

Should the finder of the sapphire casque give the aquamarine to Egbert or Siskel?

Hi Everyone, Long time searcher, first time poster. I apologize if I'm posting in the wrong section, but I was curious if anyone has had any experience digging or knows how to go about getting access to ground penetrating radar? I'm located in NY, but I'd like to explore St. Louis, MO, regarding image 9. Has anyone here organized a dig before? Thank you, Jackie

Egbert wrote:: I think that half of the State is a bit of a stretch --- you could probably find half of a State in almost any picture.  But one never knows, until the treasure is found!  I thought the Cleveland pic was Philly for quite some time, because of the Liberty Bell reference.  I also think that the Statue of Liberty "face" in Image 12 is also somewhat of a red herring, and that Image 12 is Vancouver. Im curious why Egbert thought Image 12 was linked to Vancouver.

I know there's been some discussion of the Cleveland and Chicago finds and sort of reverse engineering them to find other casques. I work about a mile south of the Cleveland find, and on my lunch hour last week took a ride up there and took a lot of pictures. If folks are interested, I'd be happy to post them here.

That would be great -- you never know what people may notice.

Some pics of the Greek Cultural Gardens: The above are from their web site. Below are mine. The spot where the casque was dug up: The casque was in the bushes between those urns: An overview of the garden. The site where the casque was is on the other side of the wall. MLK Drive is down the hill from there. Behind me is East Blvd. The entrance, and my bike. If there's something specific you wanted to see, I might be enticed to return...

Splumer, great pics and nice work retracing some of the steps of the Cleveland find. Which of the other puzzles are you most interested in? All, I liked that Vice Magazine article by Zach Brook. Looks like decibalnyc, animalpainter and other Milwaukee folks have been having a lot of fun.

erexere wrote:: Splumer, great pics and nice work retracing some of the steps of the Cleveland find. Which of the other puzzles are you most interested in? Thanks! I'm most interested in the verse 11/image 33 combo, which is believed to be Roanoke Island, NC. We've vacationed there a couple of times, and my niece lives in Salvo, which is a bit south of there. We're thinking of going down again next summer.

I have a general question for discussion.... We know that Ted Mann was a senior editor at the National Lampoon, and Sean Kelly wrote op-ed pieces for the NY Times. Byron Preiss himself was a book publisher and this was his baby. I would think that some care went into the editing of this book, especially crucial parts like the entry form and instructions. In the back of the book, the instructions and "rules" so to speak, there is the phrase with italics as it appears in the book... " Every treasure casque is buried underground, at a depth of no more than three to three and one-half feet ." I pose this question. If something is NO MORE than 3 and 1/2 feet deep...it's certainly NOT no more than 3 feet deep. Why would you even say THREE to Three and one half feet...all you need to say is 3 and one half feet. He even emphasized the words no more with italics to give us a precise depth, and then gives us a vague one. Wasted words? Humor (in the instructions?) or was it a slip up? Was it on purpose? Even if he buried 1 a little deeper than the rest, you would still just say no more than X depth...unless you switched the phrase to "at a depth of 2.5 to 3.5 feet" or something of the nature. This has always bothered me, any thoughts?

Your concern about the specificity is, I think, why it was written as "no more than 3 to 3.5 feet." I think it was uncertain to Preiss how far down he dug (i.e., he never measured - he just dug a hole and put the casque in it without knowing its depth). A useful comparison that elicits this ambiguity is observed when asking why Preiss used "no more than" as opposed to "not more than" when describing the depth. Consider this... The casque is no more than 3.5 feet down. The casque is not more than 3.5 feet down. The first sentence lends itself to uncertainty about the exact depth... it's more casual, an estimate. It would not be unusual to include a range in an estimate; thus, "no more than three to three and one-half feet" makes sense here. The second sentence lends itself to certainty about the exact depth. If Preiss was certain about the depth (i.e., he measured when he dug), he might have used this phrase instead: "The casque is not more than three and one-half feet."

Sure, but if your choice of words is "No More" and you emphasize that, and you weren't sure if you put it down 3 feet or 3 and a half feet, then to correctly complete the phrase you would choose the lowest depth and not both...no?

decibalnyc wrote:: Sure, but if your choice of words is "No More" and you emphasize that, and you weren't sure if you put it down 3 feet or 3 and a half feet, then to correctly complete the phrase you would choose the lowest depth and not both...no? If you were trying to be as precise as possible without actually knowing, you would use "no more than" and a range as close to what you thought was true. For instance, if he knew it was no more than "three and one-half," he would have said it. But he didn't measure each hole with a tape, IMHO. So, he is essentially making his best guesstimate. He is saying, "no more than 3 feet, give or take." If he truly had no idea, he would have said, "not more than 10 feet." But, I think he was trying to be helpful by saying, look y'all... if you dig down 3 or 3 and a half feet (cause he knows we ain't measuring either), and it ain't there, then it ain't there. If he knew exactly and had measured, he would say "not more than" and a specific number.

OK I feel you, certainly pointing out the words no more in italics must have just been a slip up or something.

I've spoke with various archaeological experts over the years. Recently I was quoted a fee for services to dig a casque at a rate of $100 per linear foot. There may be some additional fees for permitting. Has anyone else done any cost estimation on hired assistance from an archaeologist? I think the experience of digging thoroughly and legally during the day for $600-$1000 is reasonable. Sometime in the near future (spring 2017), I'd be willing to donate funds to support any proposed digs. So, any suggestions on who would be a good treasurer?

erexere wrote:: I've spoke with various archaeological experts over the years. Recently I was quoted a fee for services to dig a casque at a rate of $100 per linear foot. There may be some additional fees for permitting. Has anyone else done any cost estimation on hired assistance from an archaeologist? I think the experience of digging thoroughly and legally during the day for $600-$1000 is reasonable. Sometime in the near future (spring 2017), I'd be willing to donate funds to support any proposed digs. So, any suggestions on who would be a good treasurer? As Mark will tell you, it doesn't matter how many linear feet you can move per hour, or how much it will cost you. It doesn't matter if you have an archaeologist or a backhoe. If you don't know precisely where an 8-inch casque is at in North America, you ain't diggin' one up. You'd be throwing money in the wind. What happens when you pay someone to dig in Houston, and there ain't a casque Atropos? Pay to dig a little deeper, a little wider? Move the site and dig at some random lightpole with an S on it? Find another Weird connection in the book and integrate it to refine/define a digspot? Besides, don't you want to solve a puzzle?

No shit. Solving the puzzle is the deal. As for the contrast between legal risk and digging in the poor light of off-hours conditions, I think the thoroughness of day time digging at a reasonable cost is worth looking into. As for where anyones solves takes them, let there be funds to support any clear proposals. So, if anyone here has a suggestion on procedure, I'm in support of helping.

erexere wrote:: So, if anyone here has a suggestion on procedure, I'm in support of helping. Solve the puzzle, be your own "good treasurer." Dig one up, and you'll be able to get permission at other cities.

I dont think it works that way. Egbert found a "treasure." Has it really give him any access or credibility in the search of other sites?

erexere wrote:: I dont think it works that way. Egbert found a "treasure." Has it really give him any access or credibility in the search of other sites? Can you get permission to dig inside the FOY?

Yes.

I can imagine it now: "Sure, you found this fancy flowerpot doohickey down in Florida, but that doesn't mean we give you permission to dig on Liberty Island. This is New York City here, we got standards!"

erexere wrote:: Yes. Are you serious Eric?

MrSeabass wrote:: Heh, I like how I have no idea what erexere is talking about yet this reply could work for any of his posts. Yes there are a few responses... "Are you serious" and "Not again" top the list.

Except for the line starting with T, it looks like Tolkien had a sense of humor with an acrostic: ANTDFART. All that is gold does not glitter, Not all those who wander are lost; The old that is strong does not wither, Deep roots are not reached by the frost. From the ashes a fire shall be woken, A light from the shadows shall spring; Renewed shall be blade that was broken, The crownless again shall be king.

erexere wrote:: Except for the line starting with T, it looks like Tolkien had a sense of humor with an acrostic: ANTDFART. (off-topic fills the time) Except that the British English doesn't use the word 'fart' and there was probably even less cross-pollination with American English back then. (When they pass gas, they 'trumpet', thus our farts are their trumps.)

Though I am new to this particular forum, I have seen erexere's theories on other sites and I admire his lack of methodology to his particular brand of madness. I was like him once, chasing my own tail, until I realized that these hunts are usually just three dimensional, real world puzzles. You put the pieces together in a logical order and the picture appears. No need to go genocidal on all of your brain cells. You may need them one day.

Great, another critic with the ability to say so much and yet make excuses to say nothing at all. My ideas are far from lacking in methodology. Methodology is a work in progress for anyone here and the reality of what is certain and whats pure conjecture is well worn material in these forums. I hope you have good ideas to share as opposed to whining about my posts.

C'mon, lighten up! I surround myself with characters like yourself. We're a good breed. BUT...Basin Street is not a place where people gather in the afternoon like the verse implies. Even you have to admit that the theory is a long stretch at best. Hopefully, we can show the map soon. The weather in NOLA isn't good for hunting today, though. May send one scout when the rain stops. Have you ever visited our city? Words cannot describe it.

Lets discuss that theory in the proper image or verse thread. I am willing to pay a reasonable amount of money for GPR work in select locations. Nobody has taken me up on the offer. Even if they dont like my theory, I'm not sure why they would turn down $2K for a few hours of work. So what if there is a problem with the methodology, people not willing to work for proof of the result is an entirely different problem.

Eric, I was actually thinking about this too. I was hesitant because I know certain types of soil affects the readings, and anything in the ground could look like a casque I suppose. Anyone on here have any experience with reading GPR scans and is this a viable rabbit hole to go down? I'm for it if we can gain something from it. Just don't know how well the data would be interpreted without an 'expert'...I know it's been thrown around before, but it might be worth a serious discussion.

TJ, I'm definitely paying for some GPR work. Whatever variables apply, soil condition, tree roots, or anomalies encountered will surely be resolved. As for finding a casque, I'm can only cross my fingers and hope.

Take a look at GPR images on the net. All you get are wavy lines indicating anomalies. A casque would most likely look like a similarly-sized rock. Remember also the condition of the Cleveland casque when it was found: the Lucite box was crushed, and the casque and key inside damaged; depending on the materials that intruded (dirt, gravel, water, etc), it could look like just a little muddy thing. The physical size of the box and casque isn't that big, something between an eight-inch and ten-inch cube (does anyone have actual measurements?).

I reckon this would fall under general questions. Has anyone ever heard of the podcast "Rabbits"? I took the bait on an advertisement I heard because it sounded interesting and was half paying attention to the first episode when I heard "Byron Preiss" and quickly rewound a few minutes. Some serious Baader-Meinhof shit going on for some folks. That said, I remain skeptical but cautiously optimistic re: the new (newer?) wave of Secret enthusiasm means for actually find a cask https://www.rabbitspodcast.com/episodes/ Start at 32:35 into Episode 1 if you want Secret related material. Overall, the first episode is interesting enough to give a full listen to see the connection. I don't know if The Secret plays a larger role in episodes to come because I am new to this podcast, but it's a creative angle nonetheless. Disclaimer: I would hope I've been around here long enough, but given the reactions to some recent media ventures I want to make it perfectly clear that this is a genuine inquiry and not some kind of advertisement. I am in no way, shape, or form associated with this podcast. I am, however, interested in hearing any thoughts people have if they want to give Rabbits a listen. The podcast is a docudrama but the info on The Secret I've heard thus far is mostly correct.

I love that you came by this by chance. So cool. I was aware of the podcast but I didnt feel inclined to listen until you brought it up. I agree the info is mostly correct, though its been reported by Renner that the jewels are actually available should anyone have a key in hand, he would proxy contact with Preiss' widow.

Fenix! Welcome back! I never visit the wiki -- mostly garbage. Q4T is where it's at.

Wilhouse's contribution to the Secret effort puts anything on that wiki to shame. I have a trip exclusively for researching a site planned next month. Sorry I have no details to share as it is only convincing enough for myself to go in for a closer look in person. MKE is a really strange puzzle, but I have to say some big discoveries were made in the last few years. I think NOLA's casque will be recovered in the not too distant future.

Hmm. Sometime, not sure how long ago, we found that the circular symbol on the right side of P5 was a 100% match to an architectural detail in a building not too far from the Chicago site. Not very useful, but still interesting. Other than that, we haven't made any progress because you left

In the time surrounding 1982, information was garnered from TV, maps, books...from libraries, magazines and literature and history books (usually read in school.) There really was no internet...just "bulletin boards"... private forums.Recognition of landmarks came from TV, travel and photographs. These are the things that would have been available to the first treasure hunters who read Byron's book in 1982.

Is anyone currently leaning towards the City of St. Louis? Which image and verse?

JoshCornell wrote:: No St Louis...all have been solved, not found, but solved...except MTL...and even then, the speculated location is not one that can be discounted. but it hasn't been fully corroborated via breaking all the clues either. EVEN THOUGHT BYRON PRIESS TOLD JOHANN that he was right about ST Louis but not the location of the dig JOSH. What did Pries mean when he wrote this email You have such a brilliant acumen

I forgot you knew exactly what Priess was thinking How do you know this????

WHY ARE YOU POSTING HERE IF YOU SOLVED THEM ALL CALL JOSH GATES AND SURELY HE WILL DO AN EPISODE ALL ABOUT YOU CANT WAIT TO SEE THE EPISODE SO I CAN KNOW ALL YOU KNOW

SO Josh Gates James Renner Egbert Fenix and everyone else on this forum are idiots except you ? AM I correct in my analysis of your posts

Does anyone keep in touch with Dan Amrich? He did a great job building a solid record on Kit Williams' Masquerade. I cant imagine hes lost interest in the Secret.

I have not seen any mention of inscriptions on the casques, were there any? If not, I believe it was incredibly short-sighted to not scratch on inscription on them, in case some random person or maintenance worked unearthed one. This is another reason that we may never know if some have been "found" but never reported.

who sculpted the casques? Not JJP and not Joellen Trilling. I'm sure I had that info somewhere but I cannot find it. Does anybody know? Thanks

maltedfalcon wrote:: who sculpted the casques? Not JJP and not Joellen Trilling. I'm sure I had that info somewhere but I cannot find it. Does anybody know? Thanks The book credits Joellen Trilling as the sculptress. I don’t mean to question your knowledge, but what makes you believe otherwise? No sarcasm intended, just an honest question from a newbie.

JoshCornell wrote:: someone sent him a letter with a solution, guy had it right up to st louis cathedral (which is why I offered evidence up until that point)...however, said person had casque location wrong...I have casque location CORRECT...and it is absolutely indisputable. said person who sent letter WAS from this forum...that is how I got here. Can you enlighten us please on who this forum member is? The only email from Preiss I can find on this forum that references St. Louis was the email response to Johann where he'd proposed a dig site in Forest Park (St. Louis, MO). Which forum member received a letter after submitting a dig site in New Orleans?

1) You are correct there is no email connecting St. Louis and NOLA. 2) That guy is a troll.

mindydaile wrote:: Can you enlighten us please on who this forum member is? The only email from Preiss I can find on this forum that references St. Louis was the email response to Johann where he'd proposed a dig site in Forest Park (St. Louis, MO). Which forum member received a letter after submitting a dig site in New Orleans? You are correct that there was a proposed dig in Forest Park by the author

"st. louid" was from that response about Forrest Park in St. Louis, but which verse and image pair were in effect for that derivation? I think it was Image 9 with Verse 2. If Verse 2 is truly linked to Image 7(imho,NOLA) then Preiss' response implicates a St. Louis connection to NOLA.