Quest4Treasure Archives

Can someone who was familar with the Base/Museum back in the day, let us know if there was a Pacifica statue in the plaza fronting the museum??

pacifica was torn down immediately after the fair. The building itself is the only remnant of the fair on the island that I know of.

fox wrote:: nobody liked my 222 = Golden Gate Bridge? actually I sure did, it would very important to find out where on the ground that information is. ... where is a marker that says that located (besides online)

24 images of the Fair, showing the buildings, the layout and the statues. This is a power-point presentation, so be patient and let it run. http://www.sfmuseum.net/views/ggieviews.ppt

http://www.sfmuseum.net/hist6/ti-statue.html Is this the Pacifica statue you were talking about?

no, this one http://www.pacificastatue.org/

I am struck by the similarities of the facial features of the lady in Image 1 and the face of the Pacifica Statue.... the straight nose, the eyebrows and the contrast on the lips... I realize that the angle of the photo changes the face , but the  straightness of the nose and where the eyebrows arch to meet the nose...look so similar. If Pacifica were not around in 1981, then maybe it is a moot point. AP

And her arms were/are outstretched (between the arms) The body of the statue has some resemblence (shape) of image 1 as well.

AP, I don't see any resemblance, beyond the fact that both are female faces. Some features are actually opposite (widow's peak vs. part, upward-slanting eyes vs. downward-slanting...).

maltedfalcon wrote:: no, this one http://www.pacificastatue.org/ that one was in the Power Point presentation in the post just before my other one.

Both faces are vaguely Oriental, but to me, there's not much other real resemblance. Since the pearl is the Chinese treasure, an Oriental face was called for. The 'downward' slant of the eyes on the guidebook cover is due to the angle the drawing is done from--i.e., looking up, not full face-on. However, I do believe that the image suggests the Far East, as did the entire fair when it was on--it celebrated the cultures from the Pacific rim--Asian and Polynesian. I really suggest you all look at that PP presentation. It has very clear images from the Fair and they are quite interesting. Especially the "rock-like" buildings in the 6th image--they look quite like the rocks in the background of P. 1. Startlingly so, in fact. In fact, so much so--well--I'll let you look at them.

FB, You are right about Pacifica and Image 1 not being a perfect match. It's just her NOSE ! Shecrab, The power point of the exposition was very interesting. The rock formations are very like the rocks in image 1. I can't see how they could destroy such a magnificent place. Do you think that BP would make use of images that were not really present at the sight when he was there? The internet was not readily available in the early 80's, so the search would have been much more difficult to find related historic photos. AP

As was the case of the Chicago Exposition, the buildings at the fair on TI were not built to last mostly just stucco over wood. the statues were mostly just poured concrete and by the end of the fair the salt air and moisture was beginning to cause a great deal of wear and tear. I really wish those photos had been color, the fair was an incredible site I've been told. lots of things we think of as "calfornian" were introduced there...

It's true that there was no real internet then...but...there were libraries, and the 1940 Expo in San Francisco was fairly well documented. I'm sure he had no trouble finding pics! Especially if he was actually out there. Truly--about those buildings and the rocks...I haven't seen a better match to the ones in p.1! That's kinda what got me started on this tack in the first place--seeing the images of the "rocket-like" building, and those rock-like buildings. it really blew me away. Was it buried on TI? Probably not at all--but within sight of it? I'll bet on it with a certainty I haven't had in a long time in this game. There are accounts of TI in the early 80's on the museum's web site--they have a "memory book" where you can look up first-person accounts of TI from it's inception to now. In one entry, a lady wrote about visiting the museum and how "Building #1--the curved building--was at the time an airport terminal. And how "Building #2," which was behind it, was the crumbling remains of the "Hall of Aerial Transportation." (see quotes below)  I was reminded of the "wind-swept halls, and from ancient dreams of flight etc." lines from the other verse. If you go thru the entries in the memory book, you can see that the public has been going onto the base for quite a while, and BP probably could have gotten on it easily enough, if not to bury the casque, at least to look. We learned that this building, which the Navy had unpretentiously dubbed “Building One,” had been the Administration Building for the world’s fair—and that it had been designed to be an airport terminal. AIRPORT TERMINAL? Yes indeed, and the building behind it—now you can answer this one—“Building Two”—had been the Hall of Aerial Transportation! As we drew nearer we saw a bas relief high in the two-story recessed doorway of this gargantuan building, a goddess in flowing robes, standing atop a small globe, wings on her feet. She, like the remainder of the buildings we saw on Treasure Island, had been neglected. Her plaster skin was crumbling in places, and bits of bird nest poked out from the holes.

Actually building one did serve as an air terminal for quite some time. before and after the navy base was there It was the terminal departure point for the China clippers  (sea planes) you waited inside then walked straight out the front accross the main street and down a small stairway onto a small dock to board the clipper. Still all this was behind the main Security gate, manned by US marines until the 60's and the Navy after that a stranger with a shovel and small box would not have been looked too kindly upon....

forest_blight wrote:: AP, I don't see any resemblance, beyond the fact that both are female faces. Some features are actually opposite (widow's peak vs. part, upward-slanting eyes vs. downward-slanting...). Actually the fact that everything between the two seeming to be exact opposites has me intrigued.  Flat bottom lip vs rounded, upper lip coming to peaks vs flat upper lip, flat eyebrows vs arched ones, widows peak vs part, eye slanted up vs eye slanted down, rounded nose vs square nose...all seems very deliberate to me

forest_blight wrote:: AP, I don't see any resemblance, beyond the fact that both are female faces. Some features are actually opposite (widow's peak vs. part, upward-slanting eyes vs. downward-slanting...). Actually the fact that everything between the two seeming to be exact opposites has me intrigued.  Flat bottom lip vs rounded, upper lip coming to peaks vs flat upper lip, flat eyebrows vs arched ones, widows peak vs part, eye slanted up vs eye slanted down, rounded nose vs square nose...all seems very deliberate to me

so humor me for a minute and just go with the theory that the iconic image in a picture is just a city confirmer and that it is on the same street as the first clue in a verse... That being said GGpark would then be an iconic image not a casque location. So lots and lots of streets go from ggpark which one is the street we should take? Remember the image of ggpark is inverted (as indicated by the Gh) so flip the image. look at her fingers, her left points at 3 blocks her right at 4 blocks... hmm 34th ave runs due north  out of ggpark. Go back to the Cleveland image. the street from the terminal tower ran straight until you came to Liberty ave, which is confirmed in the painting by the Lbell image, (you are supposed to turn right on liberty drive, (it took you right to the front of the Italian garden... Notice the Lincoln silhouette in image 1, perhaps this means go up 34th to lincoln. Where does that put us? Lincoln park is to our right (and the palace of the legion of honor, straight ahead is baker beach and just to our left is china beach... So the question becomes, if not verse 7, which verse... I like the lane 222 -GG bridge landmark 222 connection. if you go to Baker beach the view of the bridge is amazing and also from that point of view, at night the roadbed forms an arc of lights... http://www.jmg-galleries.com/blog_image ... h_520c.jpg as do the lights on the suspension cables.... china beach also has its pluses, as you get the same view as baker beach and it has a chinese theme... lincoln park, also has possibilities for a week or so I was thinking the Licoln highway marker was a good match for the object under the table. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/3948 ... 06.jpg?v=0 but it turns out it was replaced in the 90s and the previous one looks less like the object under the table, (at least in the picture I saw, but the possiblity is still there the was even a different one in place in 1981...) So anyway I think we are in the right neighborood but there needs to be some more thought as to which verse is correct... I would hope that sometime soon someone could go look around montreal to confirm or deny the v7 use there...

so humor me for a minute and just go with the theory that the iconic image in a picture is just a city confirmer and that it is on the same street as the first clue in a verse... That being said GGpark would then be an iconic image not a casque location. So lots and lots of streets go from ggpark which one is the street we should take? Remember the image of ggpark is inverted (as indicated by the Gh) so flip the image. look at her fingers, her left points at 3 blocks her right at 4 blocks... hmm 34th ave runs due north  out of ggpark. Go back to the Cleveland image. the street from the terminal tower ran straight until you came to Liberty ave, which is confirmed in the painting by the Lbell image, (you are supposed to turn right on liberty drive, (it took you right to the front of the Italian garden... Notice the Lincoln silhouette in image 1, perhaps this means go up 34th to lincoln. Where does that put us? Lincoln park is to our right (and the palace of the legion of honor, straight ahead is baker beach and just to our left is china beach... So the question becomes, if not verse 7, which verse... I like the lane 222 -GG bridge landmark 222 connection. if you go to Baker beach the view of the bridge is amazing and also from that point of view, at night the roadbed forms an arc of lights... http://www.jmg-galleries.com/blog_image ... h_520c.jpg as do the lights on the suspension cables.... china beach also has its pluses, as you get the same view as baker beach and it has a chinese theme... lincoln park, also has possibilities for a week or so I was thinking the Licoln highway marker was a good match for the object under the table. http://farm1.static.flickr.com/166/3948 ... 06.jpg?v=0 but it turns out it was replaced in the 90s and the previous one looks less like the object under the table, (at least in the picture I saw, but the possiblity is still there the was even a different one in place in 1981...) So anyway I think we are in the right neighborood but there needs to be some more thought as to which verse is correct... I would hope that sometime soon someone could go look around montreal to confirm or deny the v7 use there...

I don't get how you are saying one finger points at 3 blocks and the other points at 4, but..... If you invert the picture, the symbols on the collar bones could represent 34 and 40.  There is your 34, but then what is the 40?

I don't get how you are saying one finger points at 3 blocks and the other points at 4, but..... If you invert the picture, the symbols on the collar bones could represent 34 and 40.  There is your 34, but then what is the 40?

Those are the lat/lon coordinates/ I think the finger represent blocks/streets....

Those are the lat/lon coordinates/ I think the finger represent blocks/streets....

using those as lat/long put you out in the atlantic ocean, not san fran.

My mistake the lat lon in the pix are  other numbers , go read the thread, you can read all about the numbers 37 38 122 123 which actually feature quite prominantly in the image These numbers when taken as latitude and longitude form a bounding box that pretty much emcompasses the city / peninsula of San Francisco. Now since the we have lat and long numbers elsewhere in the image, the question has always been what is she trying to show by where she is pointing if you look at her fingers she is obviously pointing at something. remember we reverse the image to make it match the park. so her left finger now points at the line below 3 blocks and her right finger points at the line below 4 blocks, I was suggesting perhaps this indicates the number 34 and 34th ave goes straight north to Lincoln ave, china beach, baker beach and lincoln park, it also takes you to the area that is shown as a map on the forehead of the lady. lastly  if you were in that area and you could see the Ghirradelli sign, (i dont think you can, but if you could, you woud be looking at the back of it...

My mistake the lat lon in the pix are  other numbers , go read the thread, you can read all about the numbers 37 38 122 123 which actually feature quite prominantly in the image These numbers when taken as latitude and longitude form a bounding box that pretty much emcompasses the city / peninsula of San Francisco. Now since the we have lat and long numbers elsewhere in the image, the question has always been what is she trying to show by where she is pointing if you look at her fingers she is obviously pointing at something. remember we reverse the image to make it match the park. so her left finger now points at the line below 3 blocks and her right finger points at the line below 4 blocks, I was suggesting perhaps this indicates the number 34 and 34th ave goes straight north to Lincoln ave, china beach, baker beach and lincoln park, it also takes you to the area that is shown as a map on the forehead of the lady. lastly  if you were in that area and you could see the Ghirradelli sign, ( i dont think you can, but if you could, you woud be looking at the back of it...

yeah i've read the thread and see the coordinates.  I don't doubt for a second that this one is San Fran.  I was just looking for clarification on how you came up with 34 using the fingers (i see now).  I think that is a stretch to count the number of rows of blocks above the fingers.  However, I think you may have stumbled upon something with 34th Ave.  What I was getting at was this: Once you have mirrored the image so that it is oriented correctly, look at the symbols on the collarbones.  If you count the points of each you get 34 and 40.  If you count the edges you get 34 and 41.  Golden Gate Park is between the two sets of symbols.  I interpret this to possibly mean limit your search in GGP to the area that falls between 34th and 40th (or 41st) Avenue.

yeah i 've read the thread and see the coordinates. I don't doubt for a second that this one is San Fran. I was just looking for clarification on how you came up with 34 using the fingers ( i see now). I think that is a stretch to count the number of rows of blocks above the fingers.  However, I think you may have stumbled upon something with 34th Ave.  What I was getting at was this: Once you have mirrored the image so that it is oriented correctly, look at the symbols on the collarbones.  If you count the points of each you get 34 and 40.  If you count the edges you get 34 and 41.  Golden Gate Park is between the two sets of symbols. I interpret this to possibly mean limit your search in GGP to the area that falls between 34th and 40th (or 41st) Avenue.

malted, what do you think about using verse 5 with this one? washington street (the 222)  is right there not far away from alcatraz. the whole verse sounds like alcatraz to me. could the arc of lights be the golden gate bridge?  some tree on alcatraz? for sure you'd need to get permission.

malted, what do you think about using verse 5 with this one? washington street (the 222)  is right there not far away from alcatraz. the whole verse sounds like alcatraz to me. could the arc of lights be the golden gate bridge?  some tree on alcatraz? for sure you'd need to get permission.

Alcatraz isnt called "The Rock" for Kicks. I think the dirt for the garden on the rock was brought in so they would have a place to stick seeds... But if you go to baker beach (due north on 34th from GGpark) and wait for dark the Goldengate bridge forms a beautiful arc of lights...

Alcatraz isnt called "The Rock" for Kicks. I think the dirt for the garden on the rock was brought in so they would have a place to stick seeds... But if you go to baker beach (due north on 34th from GGpark) and wait for dark the Goldengate bridge forms a beautiful arc of lights...

ok, so here is what I have come up with so far and i 'm sorry if i am repeating anything already written,  but i have no time to read all posts since 2004. image 1 is for san francisco lat #'s are 37,38 long #'s are 122, 123 the image goes with verse 8 "as you walk the beating of the world" this refers to the "North Beach" area of S.F. which was the neighborhood of the "beats", (Jack Keroac, Neal Cassady, Alan Ginsberg, and other artsy beatnics), the main streets in this area are Columbus Ave, Broadway, Vallejo and Green Streets. "Ascend the 92 steps after climbing the grand 200" i think this might refer to the Coit tower steps which begin right after the Filbert steps end.  Coit tower and these stairs are located on Telegraph Hill which is within walking distance from North Beach. Also, in the image, the leg of the table is a sillouete of coit tower upside-down. "pass the compass" atop of telegraph hill is a statue of Christopher Colombus. it is possible that he is holding a compass, or there is an image of a compass on the statue. One would have to go there and find out, maybe count the steps to confirm because there are other steps in the area. Once atop telegraph hill, just look for the culvert and bridge and follow the directions in the last lines of the verse.

ok, so here is what I have come up with so far and i'm sorry if i am repeating anything already written,  but i have no time to read all posts since 2004. image 1 is for san francisco lat #'s are 37,38 long #'s are 122, 123 the image goes with verse 8 "as you walk the beating of the world" this refers to the "North Beach" area of S.F. which was the neighborhood of the "beats", (Jack Keroac, Neal Cassady, Alan Ginsberg, and other artsy beatnics), the main streets in this area are Columbus Ave, Broadway, Vallejo and Green Streets. "Ascend the 92 steps after climbing the grand 200" i think this might refer to the Coit tower steps which begin right after the Filbert steps end.  Coit tower and these stairs are located on Telegraph Hill which is within walking distance from North Beach. Also, in the image, the leg of the table is a sillouete of coit tower upside-down. "pass the compass" atop of telegraph hill is a statue of Christopher Colombus. it is possible that he is holding a compass, or there is an image of a compass on the statue. One would have to go there and find out, maybe count the steps to confirm because there are other steps in the area. Once atop telegraph hill, just look for the culvert and bridge and follow the directions in the last lines of the verse.

From one matty to another... You'd probably be well-served to read through the posts.  Believe it or not, there have been a lot of smart people working on these for a while.

From one matty to another... You'd probably be well-served to read through the posts.  Believe it or not, there have been a lot of smart people working on these for a while.

Thanks bigmatt Oh wait, I hope I am one of those smart folks you refer to Those are good ideas indeed mattyL, but, without more tie ins...I find it VERY difficult to think that V8 goes anywhere except Milwaukee. Welcome to the funhouse.

Thanks bigmatt Oh wait, I hope I am one of those smart folks you refer to Those are good ideas indeed mattyL, but, without more tie ins... I find it VERY difficult to think that V8 goes anywhere except Milwaukee. Welcome to the funhouse.

There are 482 Filbert Steps...

what about the Greenwich steps? how many of those?

what about the Greenwich steps? how many of those?

Not sure about the Greenwich steps....but the "Grand" Staircase in Milwaukee just so happens to have 92 steps.  This staircase, as seen below, has 2 'C' shaped sections facing each other.  CC is, of course, roman numeral for 200.  So there we not only have a "Grand" Staircase but we also have our "Grand 200".  This all of course was discussed some time back.

Not sure about the Greenwich steps....but the "Grand" Staircase in Milwaukee just so happens to have 92 steps.  This staircase, as seen below, has 2 'C' shaped sections facing each other.  CC is, of course, roman numeral for 200.  So there we not only have a "Grand" Staircase but we also have our "Grand 200".  This all of course was discussed some time back.

Just read through all posts. Phew! Will someone who has lined up the crossed arms to crossover drive please post your image? Thank you.Lafitte

Hello all. I am new to this hunt and would like to share some of my ideas. I haven't read through all the post so forgive me if i repeat anything. I believe (like most everyone does)  that image 1 leads to san francisco.  And that verse 7 goes with it.  My first thoughts were Golden Gate park after seeing the image, but i just couldn't get the verse to completely make sense. I found myself trying to hard to make things fit.  The verse is supposed to lead you to the exact location to dig.  Now it could be that so much has changed in the area in 25+ years that the verse won't completely make sense.  But looking at the two treasures that have been solved most all of the landmarks are still there.  So if we assume that most all of the landmarks are still there with this treasure, then the verse will only make senses in the right location.  It will come together with limited effort. Recently i went to san francisco with the family for a weekend getaway.  Two days before the trip i was introduced to this hunt by a friend.  He had me convinced that it was in golden gate park.  So the first day in the city we spent in gg park looking and looking and looking, taking notes and pics. i had to beg the family to spend the whole day in the park looking for the treasure.  So at the end of the day, with no luck i promised the family no more treasure hunting.  The next day we went to the fishermans warf area.  We parked the car near Russian Park and decided to walk down to Ghiradelli square, and thats when i noticed it.  From Russian Park, looking down Larkin St. I could see the Gh of the Ghiradelli sign and it was backward just like the G h in the image. Then after we turned down Larkin St. I instantly noticed a ship (the Balclutha) in the bay with 3 large masts and behind it in the distance, Alcatraz.  After buying some chocolate we crossed Beach St. and went to the Maritime museum.  Most of it was closed but there were some plaques and historical things to read.  One read: “The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.” Many attribute this phrase to Mark Twain, however the origin is unknown.  From there you can see a stone wall along side Fort Mason, but i didn't walk down it to see if there was a doorway.  There is also a stone wall down by the water that looked like a water break.  Also from the Maritime National Historic Park you can see part of the Golden Gate bridge.  Later we went to the ships and there is a steam engine Paddle Wheel boat (Eureka) in the bay.  Mark Twain has written about both his interest in steam engines and Paddle Wheel boats on the Mississippi. Then we headed down towards pier 39.  By the time we headed back it was dark so i couldn't explore the area more.  Then homeward bound. I think the verse fits very well here.  Most everything i saw was there in the early 80's. I don't know if many people have checked the area but i would like to hear from anyone that has.  There was also two observation towers (don't know how long they have been there) in the Maritime park.  That made me think about the moons in image 1.  Moon can be viewed at an observatory (observation tower).  Just a thought. Heres what i have for verse 7. At stone walls door: Stone wall by Fort Mason or by Water?? [move] [/move] The air smells sweet Ghiradelli square Not far away High posts are three The 3 masts on the Balclutha Education and Justice For all to see Education=Maritime Museum?? Justice=Alcatraz Sounds from the sky ?? Birds, seagulls, pelicans ?? ??planes or jets from the old Alameda air base, the flight path was over the bay?? Near ace is high Running north, but first across Ace= number 1 High= highway highway 1 Golden Gate bridge runs north, but first across the bay. In jewels direction Is an object Of Twains attention Object of Twains attention= Paddle Wheel boat (Eureka) the jewel is in that direction Giant pole ?? flagpole ??  observation tower ?? Giant step From the giant pole, face the jewels direction (paddle wheel boat) and take a giant step....Dig. these are just my thoughts. again, sorry if i repeated anything and sorry if this post is so long.

Hello all.  I am new to this hunt and would like to share some of my ideas.  I haven't read through all the post so forgive me if i repeat anything. I believe (like most everyone does)  that image 1 leads to san francisco.  And that verse 7 goes with it.  My first thoughts were Golden Gate park after seeing the image, but i just couldn't get the verse to completely make sense.  I found myself trying to hard to make things fit.  The verse is supposed to lead you to the exact location to dig.  Now it could be that so much has changed in the area in 25+ years that the verse won't completely make sense.  But looking at the two treasures that have been solved most all of the landmarks are still there.  So if we assume that most all of the landmarks are still there with this treasure, then the verse will only make senses in the right location.  It will come together with limited effort. Recently i went to san francisco with the family for a weekend getaway.  Two days before the trip i was introduced to this hunt by a friend.  He had me convinced that it was in golden gate park.  So the first day in the city we spent in gg park looking and looking and looking, taking notes and pics.  i had to beg the family to spend the whole day in the park looking for the treasure.  So at the end of the day, with no luck i promised the family no more treasure hunting.  The next day we went to the fishermans warf area.  We parked the car near Russian Park and decided to walk down to Ghiradelli square, and thats when i noticed it.  From Russian Park, looking down Larkin St. I could see the Gh of the Ghiradelli sign and it was backward just like the G h in the image. Then after we turned down Larkin St. I instantly noticed a ship (the Balclutha) in the bay with 3 large masts and behind it in the distance, Alcatraz.  After buying some chocolate we crossed Beach St. and went to the Maritime museum.  Most of it was closed but there were some plaques and historical things to read.  One read: “The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.” Many attribute this phrase to Mark Twain, however the origin is unknown.  From there you can see a stone wall along side Fort Mason, but i didn't walk down it to see if there was a doorway.  There is also a stone wall down by the water that looked like a water break.  Also from the Maritime National Historic Park you can see part of the Golden Gate bridge.  Later we went to the ships and there is a steam engine Paddle Wheel boat (Eureka) in the bay.  Mark Twain has written about both his interest in steam engines and Paddle Wheel boats on the Mississippi. Then we headed down towards pier 39.  By the time we headed back it was dark so i couldn't explore the area more.  Then homeward bound. I think the verse fits very well here.  Most everything i saw was there in the early 80's. I don't know if many people have checked the area but i would like to hear from anyone that has.  There was also two observation towers (don't know how long they have been there) in the Maritime park.  That made me think about the moons in image 1.  Moon can be viewed at an observatory (observation tower).  Just a thought. Heres what i have for verse 7. At stone walls door: Stone wall by Fort Mason or by Water?? [move] [/move] The air smells sweet Ghiradelli square Not far away High posts are three The 3 masts on the Balclutha Education and Justice For all to see Education=Maritime Museum?? Justice=Alcatraz Sounds from the sky ?? Birds, seagulls, pelicans ?? ??planes or jets from the old Alameda air base, the flight path was over the bay?? Near ace is high Running north, but first across Ace= number 1 High= highway highway 1 Golden Gate bridge runs north, but first across the bay. In jewels direction Is an object Of Twains attention Object of Twains attention= Paddle Wheel boat (Eureka) the jewel is in that direction Giant pole ?? flagpole ??  observation tower ?? Giant step From the giant pole, face the jewels direction (paddle wheel boat) and take a giant step....Dig. these are just my thoughts. again, sorry if i repeated anything and sorry if this post is so long.

Hello all.  I am new to this hunt and would like to share some of my ideas.  I haven't read through all the post so forgive me if i repeat anything. I believe (like most everyone does)  that image 1 leads to san francisco.  And that verse 7 goes with it.  My first thoughts were Golden Gate park after seeing the image, but i just couldn't get the verse to completely make sense.  I found myself trying to hard to make things fit.  The verse is supposed to lead you to the exact location to dig.  Now it could be that so much has changed in the area in 25+ years that the verse won't completely make sense.  But looking at the two treasures that have been solved most all of the landmarks are still there.  So if we assume that most all of the landmarks are still there with this treasure, then the verse will only make senses in the right location.  It will come together with limited effort. Recently i went to san francisco with the family for a weekend getaway.  Two days before the trip i was introduced to this hunt by a friend.  He had me convinced that it was in golden gate park.  So the first day in the city we spent in gg park looking and looking and looking, taking notes and pics.  i had to beg the family to spend the whole day in the park looking for the treasure.  So at the end of the day, with no luck i promised the family no more treasure hunting.  The next day we went to the fishermans warf area.  We parked the car near Russian Park and decided to walk down to Ghiradelli square, and thats when i noticed it.  From Russian Park, looking down Larkin St. I could see the Gh of the Ghiradelli sign and it was backward just like the G h in the image. Then after we turned down Larkin St. I instantly noticed a ship (the Balclutha) in the bay with 3 large masts and behind it in the distance, Alcatraz.  After buying some chocolate we crossed Beach St. and went to the Maritime museum.  Most of it was closed but there were some plaques and historical things to read.  One read: “The coldest winter I ever spent was a summer in San Francisco.” Many attribute this phrase to Mark Twain, however the origin is unknown.  From there you can see a stone wall along side Fort Mason, but i didn't walk down it to see if there was a doorway.  There is also a stone wall down by the water that looked like a water break.  Also from the Maritime National Historic Park you can see part of the Golden Gate bridge.  Later we went to the ships and there is a steam engine Paddle Wheel boat (Eureka) in the bay.  Mark Twain has written about both his interest in steam engines and Paddle Wheel boats on the Mississippi. Then we headed down towards pier 39.  By the time we headed back it was dark so i couldn't explore the area more.  Then homeward bound. I think the verse fits very well here.  Most everything i saw was there in the early 80's. I don't know if many people have checked the area but i would like to hear from anyone that has.  There was also two observation towers (don't know how long they have been there) in the Maritime park.  That made me think about the moons in image 1.  Moon can be viewed at an observatory (observation tower).  Just a thought. Heres what i have for verse 7. At stone walls door: Stone wall by Fort Mason or by Water?? [move] [/move] The air smells sweet Ghiradelli square Not far away High posts are three The 3 masts on the Balclutha Education and Justice For all to see Education=Maritime Museum?? Justice=Alcatraz Sounds from the sky ?? Birds, seagulls, pelicans ?? ??planes or jets from the old Alameda air base, the flight path was over the bay?? Near ace is high Running north, but first across Ace= number 1 High= highway highway 1 Golden Gate bridge runs north, but first across the bay. In jewels direction Is an object Of Twains attention Object of Twains attention= Paddle Wheel boat (Eureka) the jewel is in that direction Giant pole ?? flagpole ??  observation tower ?? Giant step From the giant pole, face the jewels direction (paddle wheel boat) and take a giant step....Dig. these are just my thoughts. again, sorry if i repeated anything and sorry if this post is so long.

I moved my photos to a new location: http://www.cobbcrew.org/TheSecret/Aquat ... cPark.html magesmiley dug at the beach a couple years ago.

I moved my photos to a new location: http://www.cobbcrew.org/TheSecret/Aquat ... cPark.html magesmiley dug at the beach a couple years ago.

found some stuff, cant say yes here is where its at fort point, zoom in on A looks sorta like the outline of the lady and robe, if you take a walk on the bridge, and look toward fort mason, you can see the wharf, alactraz http://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=na ... e&resnum=1 this flagpole is near fort point, screenshot it from walking around bridge, the clock is at toll point at entrance to bridge from the fort side

found some stuff, cant say yes here is where its at fort point, zoom in on A looks sorta like the outline of the lady and robe, if you take a walk on the bridge, and look toward fort mason, you can see the wharf, alactraz http://maps.google.com/maps?sourceid=na ... e&resnum=1 this flagpole is near fort point, screenshot it from walking around bridge, the clock is at toll point at entrance to bridge from the fort side

The fort point area and gg bridge are indicated in the picture The ladies forhead is the penninsula, her hair is the water and her part is the bridge. so this is very possible

treasurefindingfamily wrote:: In jewels direction Is an object Of Twains attention Object of Twains attention= Paddle Wheel boat (Eureka) the jewel is in that direction need to remember the paddle wheel boat moves and is not in the location it was in the 80's Even if it was moved from one side of the doc to the other.  that change of angle would make a 20-30 foot direction change at the shore... So someone needs to find exactly where it was tied up in the 82 if you want to use it as a landmark..

treasurefindingfamily wrote:: In jewels direction Is an object Of Twains attention Object of Twains attention= Paddle Wheel boat (Eureka) the jewel is in that direction need to remember the paddle wheel boat moves and is not in the location it was in the 80's Even if it was moved from one side of the doc to the other.  that change of angle would make a 20-30 foot direction change at the shore... So someone needs to find exactly where it was tied up in the 82 if you want to use it as a landmark..

Lafitte wrote:: Just read through all posts. Phew! Will someone who has lined up the crossed arms to crossover drive please post your image? Thank you.Lafitte it was me, if you reverse the image to make the G h forward I thought why not fiip it also and see what happens and when I did the crossed over arms lined up with crossover ave... Does that mean anything or is it just a coincidence?  I dont know..

Lafitte wrote:: Just read through all posts. Phew! Will someone who has lined up the crossed arms to crossover drive please post your image? Thank you.Lafitte it was me, if you reverse the image to make the G h forward I thought why not fiip it also and see what happens and when I did the crossed over arms lined up with crossover ave... Does that mean anything or is it just a coincidence? I dont know..

Doesn't it look like there are letters above and below the bars of the window in the rocks? I haven't found this discussed anywhere in the thread.  Does anyone have a guess at what to make of those. Also, there was one post noting what looks like a lion's paw in the rocks but I have not heard mentioned what looks to me like a face turned to the side, with the forehead just touching the lower left corner of the picture of the same window in the rocks.  The surrounding rocks even look a bit to me like a robe to go with the face. The circle pattern surrounding much of the dragon make me think of a Japanese rock garden. I have a business trip to SF the week of June 8 so became inspired to catch up on this one.

Doesn't it look like there are letters above and below the bars of the window in the rocks?  I haven't found this discussed anywhere in the thread.  Does anyone have a guess at what to make of those. Also, there was one post noting what looks like a lion's paw in the rocks but I have not heard mentioned what looks to me like a face turned to the side, with the forehead just touching the lower left corner of the picture of the same window in the rocks.  The surrounding rocks even look a bit to me like a robe to go with the face. The circle pattern surrounding much of the dragon make me think of a Japanese rock garden. I have a business trip to SF the week of June 8 so became inspired to catch up on this one.

i found this may help you in your look around while in SF, or maybe someone else will spot something Golden Gate Bridge Virtual Walking Tours: http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/golden_gate_bridge.htm

i found this may help you in your look around while in SF, or maybe someone else will spot something Golden Gate Bridge Virtual Walking Tours: http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/golden_gate_bridge.htm

Thank you cw0909--that site looks helpful. I decided the background around the dragon looks like the tree background on the map of Golden Gate park posted earlier, so I 'm pretty convinced it does represent the park, but I haven't been able to match the shape of the dragon to any of the roads through the park as I thought others had been able to do.  Can anyone match specific features?  One loop in the center does seem to align with Strawberry Hill but that's about all I could find. John

Thank you cw0909--that site looks helpful. I decided the background around the dragon looks like the tree background on the map of Golden Gate park posted earlier, so I'm pretty convinced it does represent the park, but I haven't been able to match the shape of the dragon to any of the roads through the park as I thought others had been able to do.  Can anyone match specific features?  One loop in the center does seem to align with Strawberry Hill but that's about all I could find. John

hey if you need more help just ask we are here to help you. Qs ,theories, ect.

john256 wrote:: Thank you cw0909--that site looks helpful. I decided the background around the dragon looks like the tree background on the map of Golden Gate park posted earlier, so I 'm pretty convinced it does represent the park, but I haven't been able to match the shape of the dragon to any of the roads through the park as I thought others had been able to do.  Can anyone match specific features?  One loop in the center does seem to align with Strawberry Hill but that's about all I could find. John Remember to reverse the map so that the Gh are forward, then yes, many features of the map from the Great Highway, - to the polo field to strawberry hill and others line up... especially the outline of the park, it fits the map perfect( The outside edge of GGpark is not a perfect rectangle)

john256 wrote:: Thank you cw0909--that site looks helpful. I decided the background around the dragon looks like the tree background on the map of Golden Gate park posted earlier, so I'm pretty convinced it does represent the park, but I haven't been able to match the shape of the dragon to any of the roads through the park as I thought others had been able to do.  Can anyone match specific features?  One loop in the center does seem to align with Strawberry Hill but that's about all I could find. John Remember to reverse the map so that the Gh are forward, then yes, many features of the map from the Great Highway, - to the polo field to strawberry hill and others line up... especially the outline of the park, it fits the map perfect( The outside edge of GGpark is not a perfect rectangle)

anybody up for a Get-together in SF to chat about san francisco locations, possibilites. - Say Feb, mar or april? maybe do some on the ground searching?

I 'm all in but unfortunately I would have to convince my wife we could afford such an excursion. Lol

I'm all in but unfortunately I would have to convince my wife we could afford such an excursion. Lol

where would you be coming from?

abq nm

We are almost next door Mr Fox! Willcox Az here.

Hi all. After 13 years around but not in San Francisco, I recently moved from the SF Bay Area down to LA for my job. I am still bummed that there's clearly something in SF which can't be found, even though so many people seem so close to finding it. I went through the thread (32 pages, yowza) and may have missed this, but...her sleeves have blue squares around the cuffs. They are not equal -- 18 squares on one arm, 20 on the other. I was trying to find some significance to the year 1820, but not much luck, other than people existed in SF then. Her fingers point to the bottom of the eighth square on one arm and the bottom of the fifth square on another (or perhaps the top of the tenth square and the top of the 7th square). Unless, of course, this too is reversed and the right sleeve in the portrait should be viewed first, making her appear to point to squares 6 and 7 -- 1967 being the infamous Summer of Love, for which SF was the cultural center. Seems a long way to go for another SF confirmer, but I don't currently have any other link that comes to mind. Alternately, they are squares...or blocks. Could be a confirmer to the number of city blocks you have to travel in conjunction with the verse instructions? Seems a longshot. Regardless, I don't feel the squares being uneven is accidental, and I feel strongly that the hand placement is important and. Kit Williams taught me that much. Has a significance of these sleeve elements been considered and I missed it? So many people have come up with so much plausible information it's hard to imagine anything's been overlooked, and I saw a few other notes on the sleeves and her hand positions (outline of CA, among others) but I haven't seen too much discussion on my points.

I am certain that it has been suggested the 38 refers to one of the bounding latitudes of SF (37 and 38). Now, given that 38 is already in her hair and there is no need for a second one, you are right that there may be some other/further significance to her sleeves.

oh crap, I think I just figured out where the SF casque is.... I think I will be heading to SF next week...

not totally definite, but a better idea than I've had in a couple years...

Good luck maltedfalcon!!! (Take pictures.)

I will take video I have a little flip camera.

Ok checked my Schedule. and Wednesday July 7th is a go for heading to SF to dig. (7/7 for you numerologist types...) SF is a 2.5 hour trip from my house. Sunrise is 5:55 am on that day. So I plan to leave at 3:30 am Accomplishing several things. 1 beating the traffic (it is a work day) 2 arriving on site at dawn minimizing muggle traffic. 3 arriving before any public works people start their day. That being said, everybody who wants to is welcome to show up. Im bringing my kids, now 15 and 18 who have put up with many of Dad's trips to SF to dig holes. If you want to show up - let me know and I can set up a location to meet up.

something that always bugged me about my solution in GGPark is there was no image in the picture that you could see from the dig site. i.e. the cleveland picture has the image of the wall in it the chicago picture has the image of the fixture in it. Not  actually having been on the site. but I thing there are at least two images in the picture you should be able to see from the location. and the Drive a long way turn widdershins, theory works.

Good luck!  I'm anxiously waiting to hear your theory (after the dig of course).

Great luck to you maltedfalcon... someone needs to get in the paper again so the chase will be reignited! I wanna see your pic in the Chronicle!

Dig it up oh Great Falcon of Maltedland!

Not sure, but I think I have a tear in my eye. An image from the dig site is a major, major confirmer.  Go get it Maltedfalcon Clan.  I believe, I believe

Good luck, MF.  We will be interested in your theory whether or not it pans out.

Living vicariously, waiting with bated breath. Good luck MF!

Go,Go,Go,Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

No joy in Golden Gate Land. I think I made progress, but Its possible 30 years of Erosion has erased the location. I will put the image stuff in this thread and the verse stuff in the verse 7 thread. I see her fingers pointing at blocks 3 and 4, to the left of her is a silhouette of Lincoln. above her is a window in a cliff, possibly denoting a cliff house... also of course in her hairline is a map of the headlands of the golden gate. Behind her are cliffs above the ocean and one of the rocks seems to have a strangely shaped hole in it. under the table top is another strange silhouette. Going with the Widdershins theory, You start at the iconic image, drive a long way straight and then reach the first part of the verse and turn left and then finish the verse at the dig spot. Starting at Golden Gate Park, I headed north on 34th ave. which runs straight north from the park until it reaches. Lincoln park. at the top of Lincoln park, it arrives at the Palace of the Legion of honor. a stone building with a walled courtyard and a large doorway. the road dead ends there and you can turn left on camino del mar. which in itself only goes a short distance before dead ending into a walkway. But back to the image. Lincoln park /golfcourse / Palace of the Legion of Honor was built on a grave yard. (at the turn of the century all the bodies/caskets/gravestones were moved.) (its illegal to be buried in San Francisco now ) There are though a few monuments still in place. and directly opposite the palace of the legion of honor, in the grass of the golf course Is a small fenced off area with a monument. from just one angle (if you were standing at the farthest point accoss the fountain from the entrance. you can look at this monument and it is very possibly the silhouette under the table. its like a 90-95% match. ( I will post a picture as soon as I get them downloaded) On to Verse 7...

Hi, Longtime lurker here, and had not logged in at all for months. Anyway after hearing about this book and seeing the verses a couple of years ago, I became convinced it was near the Legion of Honor as well (hence my nickname). Anyway, I signed up here, read a few posts, thought everyone here had better ideas than I had, so I dropped off, only coming back occasionally to see if anyone made any progress. But now that it seems that other people might have similar ideas, I thought I'd share what I was thinking at the time. I came to think it was near the "Legion of Honor" because of the two statues our front. "Object of Twain's attention" was the first phrase I honed in on because I know a bit about Twain and happen to live in SF, and knew that the book he was most proud of was "Personal recollections of Joan of Arc", "Joan of Arc" is the statue across from "El Cid" in front of the Legion of Honor. I too looked at that statue you referenced (I think it's the one you're referencing. It's by itself in the middle of the golf course, just below the Legion of Honor) as possibly being the silhouette. It's called "The Seaman's Memorial". Here's a link to a crappy photo: http://www.outsidelands.org/seamans-memorial.php . At the time I visited it, it wasn't behind a fence, so I have some close up photos I can dig up. It didn't look exactly like the leg to me, but at the time, I thought you all were way ahead of me so I was only looking for an exact match. The reasoning that brought me to the Seaman's Memorial was: Is an object Of Twain's attention - start w/ Joan (iirc she is northernmost) Giant pole - draw line to 'pole'. There's a sculpture called 'Big Red' there now, but it looks like where there would have been a flagpole at one time. (And I *think* I recall finding a photo to corroborate it when I originally looked) Giant step - step off the ledge where the turnabout is To the place The casque is kept. - draw a (more-or-less) straight line to the Seaman's Memorial Map: The 'giant step' is the ledge between the 'pole' and the Seaman's memorial. Statue: It's still a stretch, but there's at least one other person out there who might be thinking like I was. Close ups of the statue seemed to have nothing to do with anything in the photo. The text was hard to read etc., the dirt around it was fairly loose, but with all press in recent years about remains being found up in the park, I don't think anyone would take kindly to major excavation. The author couldn't have know it at the time though. Anyway, other stuff I thought at the time was 'sounds from the sky' made me think of Crissy Field which is nearby. It used to be an airport (Lindbergh landed there), but birds work too. I think everyone is in agreement that Highway 1 is a close match for a lot of this. Anyway, I jotted a bunch of notes down. If I find them or remember them, I'll check back into this thread more regularly. Like I said, I live in SF, so if someone has a particularly promising thing to go check out, it's not a big deal for me. If I get a chance I'll find those photos and share, maybe take some more next time I'm near.

Here's a photo where there was a flagpole. It's not the photo I recall, but from the angle it's has to be in the same place the 'Big Red' sculpture is now.

A few random thoughts on Golden Gate / V7. At stone wall's door The air smells sweet This reminded me of the scene in Shakespeare where Duncan turns up at Macbeth's place. This castle hath a pleasant seat; the air nimbly and sweetly recommends itself unto our gentle senses. The initial letters of the first five lines are an anagram of "Thane" (Macbeth was Thane of Cawdor), followed by FS (SF). I imagined image 1 as a hand-wringing Lady Macbeth type: ...so I was interested when someone mentioned the Shakespeare Garden in GGP. ...an object of Twain's attention Twain wrote a book on Shakespeare . There's a sundial ... ...and some benches...("pleasant seat"? This one has a detail which reminded me of the spiral on the rose.) Sounds [like] from the sky There are various Shakespearean flower quotes dotted around. ...can't guarantee if that particular one's there - be nice if it was, but it just turned up in some general Google image search for Golden Gate Park and the Shakespeare Garden. But they seem to have stuff like that. I'd be interested to see if they had this one: Where the bee sucks there suck I In a cowslip's bell I lie Ariel - sounds like Aerial Near ace is high I think someone suggested "Near acers" in connection with another location, but maybe there are/were also acers in GGP. Alternatively, there's this "Ace of Clubs"... The pillars-in-archway theme reminded me of image 4, which set me off looking for 1881 connections again. (Portrait by Gilbert ). There are similar features in images 1 & 11: (11 moons in image 1, 1 moon in image 11) (Could be a connection with tea. GGP tea garden / rose garden / tea rose.) (The "HG", the dragon (fire/heat) and the litany reference to the "silver moon" remind me of quicksilver / mercury / thermometer. Apparently this was often represented as a serpent in alchemy - reminds me of the image 11 snake-cup .) Giant pole Giant step Wondered about "Giants pet", a (golden) goose, which Jack retrieved using a giant pole / beanstalk. Geese at Stow Lake, with its Chinese pavilion. (The Corporate Giants entry is all about Jack and the beanstalk.)

you know I never ever before thought of those similarities. very interesting. Is it my imagination or did your last post get suddenly longer. Dont go back and massively change your old ones, just add a new reply. I might skip over something important you wrote, because I "Know" I already read that reply...

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_nswHPYi_dEw/S ... G_3871.JPG does this clock look like the one in the image? here's the location...in new york http://lostnewyorkcity.blogspot.com/200 ... ville.html

The winder on the one in the picture is different more bell like...

thanks malted, they are all starting to get boggled in my head......but wanted to show it, just in case

Has Washington DC been considered for this image...? There seems to have been some discussion of the place in the past, but it seems to have been dropped, and I haven't seen it suggested for this one. The 38 is solid though, and it's not like you couldn't find 77s if you wanted. The rose always reminded me of a flintlock somehow. Here's George Washington's Hawkins. The hands are pointing to rows 4 and 3 - DC...? (I know you'd expect something a lot better than that. Just wondering what possible candidates for DC there might be to go with my idle speculation on V2. I'm curious how the Chinese fair folk, Yi & co, don't show on the map, and was reading about the special status of DC which isn't in any State.)

wonder if that rose is a symbol for Tokyo Rose, female broadcaster of japanese propaganda? so it would be around the japanese tea garden and that picket fence that mark twain wrote about

but you'd have to do some convincing to get this away from golden gate park because of the shape of the park in image 1,, and her hands for crossover drive, near the japanese tea garden and the Bell Gate entry and the moon bridge notice his name " Shinshi chi Nakatani
---(Tsao -shen ) and "slender, golden people" ( golden gate park) http://www.timeshutter.com/image/arch-b ... california "From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl; Chaste, perfect as the silver moon" i haven't really gone back over image 1 threads, but i remember finding the "bar door"  (image in the rocks) at one of the entrances to golden gate park, i think it might have been part of a hospital or doctor's office, (i can't remember til i go back thru the threads) but also, i like #1 (highway one)  for " On the first morning of the first spring day, " number 1 (highway)=first and/or it could be pointing to Image 1- ( the first image) because i do believe BP tried to give obscure hints, and we might not be reading them right, but they are there

looking closer at your map whiterabbit, her shoulders could be sutro or lincoln park kind of liked this streetlamp for the bell shape, but still like the bell gate at the japanese gardens http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... etlamp.jpg giant pole? did you know there is a dragon pearl tea?.......... http://www.harney.com/Dragon-Pearl-Jasm ... ducts/215/ Archery: An archery field lies just north of the golf course. Lessons and equipment (for rent or purchase) are available at the nearby San Francisco Archery Shop. The field is at Fulton St. and 47th Ave. The shop is at 3795 Balboa St., ( mark twain and fishing go together ( giant fishing pole ) http://www.sanfranciscodays.com/golden- ... ly-casting is that a dragon on the senior center? maybe he says "an object of twain's attention"  like that because twain didn't like golf:  "golf is a good walk spoiled" but then i like frogs, (giant leap)  (calaveras frogs, twain), but i only found this one pic so far: http://www.flickr.com/photos/esmecat/1486769264/

looking closer at your map whiterabbit, her shoulders could be sutro or lincoln park kind of liked this streetlamp for the bell shape, but still like the bell gate at the japanese gardens http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... etlamp.jpg giant pole? did you know there is a dragon pearl tea?.......... http://www.harney.com/Dragon-Pearl-Jasm ... ducts/215/ Archery: An archery field lies just north of the golf course. Lessons and equipment (for rent or purchase) are available at the nearby San Francisco Archery Shop. The field is at Fulton St. and 47th Ave. The shop is at 3795 Balboa St., ( mark twain and fishing go together ( giant fishing pole ) http://www.sanfranciscodays.com/golden- ... ly-casting is that a dragon on the senior center? maybe he says "an object of twain's attention"  like that because twain didn't like golf:  "golf is a good walk spoiled" but then i like frogs, (giant leap)  (calaveras frogs, twain), but i only found this one pic so far: http://www.flickr.com/photos/esmecat/1486769264/

http://www.shutterstock.com/pic-6022021 ... cisco.html http://www.flickr.com/photos/vicster/448803841/ look at the design on the head and the face and neck.........i would look behind this this looks like the hot tub on p. 65 http://www.beachcalifornia.com/sanfran6.html "prince" "bearing the great bow" http://www.sanfranshuttletours.com/sigh ... 709956.jpg the bo tree or bodhi tree that buddha sits under........ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodhi_Tree would like to find a good picture of the bottom of the statue to see if it has serpents or flowering vines, like the top and the base of lotus leaves or fig leaves i believe the table is a stone lantern, think the bottom is just reflection from a pond, and maybe it's saying "tea" time, for the tea house (is the tea house the same as a temple?) a "dragon"  protects buddhism: "DRAGON MYTHOLOGY. A mythological animal of Chinese origin, and a member of the NAGA (Sanskrit) family of serpentine creatures who protect Buddhism. e Chinese had incorporated the dragon into Buddhist thought and iconography as a protector of the various Buddha and the Buddhist law. These traditions were adopted by the Japanese (Buddhism did not arrive in Japan until the mid-6th century AD). In both China and Japan, the character for "dragon" (see orange-colored ideogram at top of page) is used often in temple names, and dragon carvings adorn many temple structures. Most Japanese Zen temples, moreover, have a dragon painted on the ceiling of their assembly halls. " the gift shop was a two story house.........home?  home loving trying to get a better picture of this fountain, can't tell if they are frogs (leap) http://www.flickr.com/photos/ojbyrne/17 ... otostream/ http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File: ... e_Park.JPG http://www.nakatanifamily.com/shinshich ... build.html the satori (?)  has flowering vines around it http://www.flickr.com/photos/davesf/117 ... otostream/ rocks: http://www.flickr.com/photos/edpuskas/4099776210/

I don't think this will convince you, but here it is anyway. The blue house next to the Conan Doyle plaque, 2135 Sacramento. (I've been considering the line "Between two arms extended" and the pearl-like bulge on the curve of her wrist, more evident in the book than in this scan. Incidentally here's the Tsao-Shen myth.)

the arms aren't extended they are crossed  🙂 but hey thanks for that "zao shen" , that helps with the "home loving stuff" but whiterabbit,   i think it fits with the guy who did the japanese tea room,  shinataka or whatever (see above post) you're gonna force me to find that place with the bars around the entrance to the golden gate, aren't ya? i think the buddha head looks like the design in the dress i know malted is gonna fight it being anywhere inside the garden .............but everyone keeps saying keep it simple............the park is in the image, japanese tea room is in the park.........can't get much simpler  🙂 oh was thinking "the air smells sweet", could be baker street, and don't forget object (something you can see or touch) can also be something you "ob ject" to (something you dislike or disapprove of.........like twain said "golf is a good walk spoiled") long time ago forest posted a pic of "madonna of the rocks" or "virgin of the rocks"  which da vinci painted for san francesco church (temple)....and that would go with "chaste, perfect": http://www.lairweb.org.nz/leonardo/rocks.html the temple gate: http://indospectrum.com/photo/cd018_gate_and_sculpture2 there is a door at the top there, can't get a good look at it wonder if the point about "honey" could be for "maple"  lane: http://www.inetours.com/Pages/SF-photos ... -lane.html it kindof looks like the designs in the dress http://www.inetours.com/Pages/SF-photos ... ntern.html look my FROG!  (leap) and the silver flowering vines!! http://www.inetours.com/Pages/SF-photos ... laque.html an idea for the "high posts are three"-------the temple gate http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sanmon here's the bar door that i found before, it's a landmark http://www.noehill.com/sf/landmarks/sf201.asp couldn't the largest lantern be considered a giant (and in the moon viewing garden), plus it says something about "peace" , ( i think it is like 9000 pounds) http://sanfrancisco.about.com/od/photog ... Garden.htm

Chinoiserie Schminoiserie.  😉  What about May 1913? What about Edwin? What about RLS? (Found a curious link between Edwin Booth and Lincoln today...he saved his son's life.) http://www.historynet.com/edwin-booth-s ... s-life.htm

lol, you're working a different verse if the dress is GGP, then her fingers are pointing across the road, one side fulton and the other side lincoln way, and they are on the 3 & 4, so either 34th street? or 43rd street?  or 3rd avenue or 4th avenue? that's around the golf courses......but haven't seen anything that would be asian, except that dragon on the senior center......... i think jimerson posted this pic on stanyon, where it looks there is a giant pole (behind the table), and you could just leap over that gate: http://www.cobbcrew.org/TheSecret/Stany ... ages/0.jpg i kind of like the idea of sunset blvd. twain wanted to turn "don quixote" into a play: http://dcmemorials.com/index_indiv0000013.htm and that is close to the japanese tea garden twain wrote about shakespeare too and he wrote "1601" and the senior center with the dragon (scroll way down) is 6101............: http://www.sanfranciscodays.com/golden- ... ly-casting

sorry guys, for some reason had "giant leap" in my head...........but that verse says "giant step"...........so0RrRy that's why i kept thinking of frogs

jimerson did you ever dig by the horses tail? does anyone know?   twain did write "A Horse's Tale" still...not asian thinking of the " RUNNING " north...............a jogging path? also, i mentioned 34 and 43 street, but should have mentioned 3rd and 4th avenue.  i saw a big telephone pole on 4th and fulton

I didn't dig under the horse's tail. I was thinking "giant pole" as the tree at the top of the hill above the horse and "giant step" would be the horse taking a step, and one of the front feet is up, kind of taking a step. But that "dirt" was very solid even after I soaked it with 5 gallons of water. The Horseshoe Pits have been recently restored so I doubt permission would be granted to dig now. I am convinced Malted's method of following a path and iconic image is correct. I think GGP on the dress is the icon, therefore not the treasure ground. And I am still sticking with verse 7. My next trip will be to China Beach Park just because I like the name and the bridge can be seen from there.

jimerson wrote:: My next trip will be to China Beach Park just because I like the name. Unknown: Have some cool clear water (Drink a little drip drip drip drip drink a little) (Water coolin' me) (OK, I'll abandon SF's Lafayette for now.) Fresh look at Verse 6 / Image 1 Consider Chicago. As far as I understand, it worked like this. 1 Where M and B are set in stone – Symphony Hall 2 And to Congress, R is known -  Roosevelt University 3 L sits and left - Lincoln 4 Beyond his shoulder - Casque There doesn’t seem to be a particularly logical trail in these first few lines – they just indicate various landmarks close to the spot. Or at any rate, Roosevelt overshoots the trail a bit. Apply a similar reasoning to V6: Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old (Paraphrase of Stevenson’s Treasure Island.) Stevenson statue – 1 Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him (May 1913 and Edwin/Edwina both connect with Edwin Booth. May 1913 was the foundation of ‘Equity’, which took root at his house.) Edwin Booth plaque – 2. Freedom at the birth of a century Together with 1913, hints at the Emancipation Proclamation. There are a couple of streets shown on the above map which might connect with this – Clay St, below (1) (named after Henry Clay, who helped to draft it) or Quincy St, by St Mary's (“President Abraham Lincoln based the Emancipation Proclamation on John Quincy's arguments”). Was wondering about St Mary’s Square – has a statue of Sun Yat-Sen . * * * * * Sounds like an interesting spot. Was recently wondering about V6s "cool, clear song of water" and Cool, Cool Water by the Beach Boys.

jimerson!  it's good to know you are still out there!  since you live there, something we say might click for you even if we say it totally out of ignorance! i can understand why you are trying somewhere different than GGP because of it saying "cathay", and that's china and not japan......but because the whole picture seems like the map to GGP, i want to stay there maybe baker street is the "air smells sweet" and the asian museum was right by the de young museum (or was it a wing in the de young museum?) and the rose garden is right by #1 and it is across the street from the museums (off of john f. kennedy dr., education and justice?) (or that could be for lincoln way..) and if you use the rose on the table for the rose garden and her cuff as a road in the park, then maybe it is close to the museums and in the book it say's "slender, golden people" all the moons, and it having a moon viewing garden... near "ace is high".....the casino near the conservatory, constructed by the Daemon brothers, lol (daemon runyon) ?: http://www.outsidelands.org/casino.php right now i'm torn between both areas of the park, because i like the golf courses, because i think BP played, and i think admunsen (north and south pole)(but he is norwegian)  is somewhere around there http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=21336 there's a big light pole there and it is close to the Great Highway that Malted likes (Gh) i am liking the "running"  for a jogging trail  🙂 but, anyway, i'm glad you are still hunting this is neat about sutro: http://www.hmdb.org/Marker.asp?Marker=21262 placed by "native sons of the golden west" is there a unicorn in GGP...they are a symbol of chastity , maybe the carousel

jstarr wrote:: Freedom at the birth of a century - paraphrase of lines from Lincoln’s Gettysburg Address - “...this nation, under God, shall have a new birth of freedom” Unknown: One of Sun's major legacies was his political philosophy, the Three Principles of the People...Sun often said that the formulation of Lincoln's Gettysburg Address, “government of the people, by the people, for the people”, had been the inspiration for the Three Principles of the People White house close at hand

http://www.flickr.com/photos/judywatt/7166461/ symbol of purity, virginal hey guys, i might not be far off with the unicorn, look, it's the symbol for the yin/yang in chinese: and remember there is one in the dress "The Chinese unicorn does not have the fierceness of western unicorns; it is gentle, not even treading on a blade of grass. Its backward horn is fleshy-tipped, indicating it was not used for attack. The creature is the legendary  (orKy-lin Ki-lin or Qilin) of China, one of the Four Spiritually Endowed Creatures. Its appearance is that of a deer-like animal with scales, an oxtail, and a furry horn on its forehead. It is a yin-yang (ki – male, lin – female) fertility symbol of wisdom, gentleness, benevolence, good will, felicity, longevity,...." http://www.likeacat.com/Unicorn-Symbolism_ep_72-1.html or maybe where  the yin-yang symbol, (carosel) SE part of park, rose  garden-Middle North of park, then the pearl would be over by stanyan street or fulton street ( an object of twain's attention- fulton steamboat? just thinking

http://www.cobbcrew.org/TheSecret/ggparkmap-overlay.jpg The map seems to fit best in this orientation. This puts the yin-yang symbol near the Senior Center (Fulton & 37th).

thank you jimerson!

That map is a PERFECT fit.  If it isn't located in GGP...then I don't know where it could be.

Good call jimerson.

I'm a GGP convert now. Indulge me while I give this location the V6 treatment. Lines 1-6, RLS. Could simply be SF. Treasure Island - stuff buried on beaches. (Chapter 6 of his In the South Seas begins: "The ocean beach of Apemama was our daily resort.") Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words "Cool, clear water" is a quote from "Cool, cool water" by the Beach Boys. Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him These lines refer to Lincoln's Emancipation Proclamation, and the formation of the Actor's Equity Association , which was started by a group called The Players founded by Edwin Booth. The spot shown above is at the intersection of Lincoln and La Playa . Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand (Pending. "Fair remuneration" is from the Equity Handbook - "Equity was founded and is run by members in order to ensure safe and beneficial working conditions and fair remuneration for professional Actors and Stage Managers." There's a white house nearby from which you can see everything in this post.) (Hey Slappy, remember the Spirit of 76...? The gas stations were named after her. There's one at this intersection. See the 76 in the rose...?) (...sign nearby...)

didn't know there was a chinese pavillion at stow lake: http://www.pbase.com/hjsteed/sf_stow_lake http://www.inside-guide-to-san-francisc ... sportation scroll down (lol, scroll)  to see close up of dragon on pavillion just read it was given in 1981........is that too late for the puzzle? http://poeticshutterbug.blogspot.com/20 ... -park.html here's a good site for the history of the park: http://sfrecpark.org/documents/ParkHistory.pdf (ugh francis drake again), but the cross is 30 feet high, made with 3 pieces of stone...high posts are three? http://query.nytimes.com/mem/archive-fr ... 5B8485F0D3 strybing is said to be a silk merchant, and the arboretum has a moon viewing garden: http://www.sfbotanicalgarden.org/ye/pdf ... BW_Map.pdf hmmm, mark twain and harriet beecher stow(e)  were neighbors http://www.harrietbeecherstowecenter.or ... faqs.shtml

found out hsi wang mu is also called "yin" and found that the island in the japanese tea garden is called "island of eternal youth" , which made me think of "peaches of immortality" from p. 18 http://www.chicagohotels.org/japanese_tea_garden.html was looking for peach trees in the park but then read that the "peaches of immortality grow on a collossal tree", also reading about the peaches of immortality there was something about "entering a gate" the redwood tree area?  collossal tree i know you guys don't like using the story, but just want to put these ideas down just in case it clicks for someone p. 28--from the place where the sun was setting--------sunset blvd. , or just saying china p. 28--i heard them say goodbye-----exit?---- gate? p. 9  from west, at close of day (sunset)...........china?  sunset boulevard? or time to leave?  gate? p. 18--impossibly distant cathay-------impossibly?........not possible? p. 17---joined by a thirteenth------there's no thirteenth avenue, goes from 12th, funston, #1, 14th  (or thats how i see it ) p. 17-filigreed with serpents and flowering vines of silver the asian museum's name was "chong moon lee"

maltedfalcon wrote:: the Gh on the dress sits directly on top of the Great highway in the park it lines up perfectly with the tourist map of GGpark available in the 80's and is in the same font... and that covered it for me. I still like this spot. Forget the verse if you prefer, but the image matches alone are worth a closer look. How 'bout this, malted... Here's the GGP map. The main road along the bottom border is Lincoln Way. The road up the left border is Great Highway - the "Gh". Take a closer look at that "h" near the pearl. It matches the intersection of Lincoln Way and Martin Luther King Jr Drive at this point. (This was called South Drive at the time.) At this location you can see the rose (garage left) and the dragon scales (sign right). (Why the "h"...? Maybe it's because this image corresponds to Gem ini, the two twins.)

That "h" is probably not an h at all, but could be the symbol for Saturn. It's backwards, but so is the G. The symbols arranged around the rectangle on the lady's dress are very odd. They are not all "real" symbols. Some are, but I have an idea that this may be either a coincidence or a giant red herring. For instance, above the backwards H there is a circle/square with dots inside. This is a hobo sign meaning "here lives a man with a bad temper". That may be a joke of some kind that Palencar put in the painting. I would doubt their veracity as a clue for casque location. The two above the G don't have any meaning I could find.  By themselves, the square with the dot inside can be a hobo sign that means danger, and the triangle is a meteorological sign meaning "ice granules." Other than that, there seems to be no good reason BP or JJP would want to warn us against ice. Of course, the roman numerals going down the sides are I II III and I II II, 123 and 122 respectively. There is a yin-yang symbol under the woman's left hand. There are two more roman numerals below that, but upside down: 11 and 5.  (or 6 and 5---it's very hard to tell.) Below those, are the letters X and A. Then on the left, three circles, which is the symbol for the Holy Trinity, and something that looks like a line drawing of a telephone. I have an extensive symbol dictionary and this symbol does not appear in it. Maybe it means "pay phone?" Below those two are on the left, a symbol meaning "autumn" and on the right a rectangle with a cross inside--this is not a known symbol for anything in particular either. At the bottom of her dress is two half-circles, joined by a horizontal line, another bogus symbol.

animal painter wrote:: Just to show the use of the same font in Image 1 as the Ghirardelli Square sign...seen backwards from North Point St....headed toward Aquatic Park. AP This is just too much of a coincidence to ignore....

AGREE

http://www.flickr.com/photos/13877445@N06/5025304350/

i did this in V6 too,sorry tried to delete it, for some reason it wouldnt let me thought i would walk from GG pk,to the Ghirardelli sign ,and see what i can see mostly i went,by the google dir it is 2.8 mi took a detour over to new century and the sgt pk http://tinyurl.com/6aqfqwn Ghirardelli sign, the G & h backwards from bay and larkin,at russian hill pk http://tinyurl.com/67xr33s how does the dir go again, a right a left,and a right ? http://tinyurl.com/628prhl slappy youll love these links walking through GG PK Virtual Walking Tours http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/golden_gate_park.htm San Francisco web site Index Virtual Walking Tours http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/search.htm i dont think its here,i just have fond memories of buena vista park sf back in the day, if you couldnt catch a bed or floor,this was ok, its in the haight hood http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/M-oyI3PM ... VgGjzDDcyA

It's strange, this one. Matching "Gh" seems to work well with either Great Highway (Goldengate shape) or Ghirardelli (reversal and Alcatraz). BP may have been thinking of both. Seems to me this image has a clue for 68 or 86. Her left finger is indicating a point eight squares down on the cuff, her right finger a point six squares down, and the loops in the dragon's tail look like a vertical 68. 1668 - Church in Bush St 1868 - Earthquake 1886 - Balclutha , moored by Ghirardelli (Quite like that last one. Here's a pic of Ghirardelli from the ship.) http://www.flickr.com/photos/dave-monk/3520335658/ * * * * * Coming back to the cinema...there's a mass of possible associations (RLS/Edwin/Equity/Trade Unions/Pro-Union rallies/Juneteenth/The Birds/Union Square drinking fountain) along the plaque->cinema route for this verse. Not sure where it would go after "law defended" though. The route from Union Square to Macaulay is along Geary St. Seems like the Geary Act could be considered a "bar" on Chinese, and gears can "bind". Maybe some point below Geary further along...?

Thank you CW!  i love those!  i am so horrible with the maps and too busy to get better are you trying verse 6 with this image like WhiteRabbit? i tried it, but the only thing i found was hagiwara was born may, 1913 , which i couldn't find any plaque or anything til i was doing your asian museum tour and cervantes was on hagiwar a tea garden drive and st. francis (fountain) feeding the birds (stand and listen to the birds). if verse 7 i ike  somewhere near cervantes because he is part of the rocks and mark twain loved him, even if he is spanish, he is on hagiwara drive. http://stuffilikenet.wordpress.com/cate ... ed/page/2/ CW i think the two solved ones were go straight (for miles)  and then turn left.  but i don't think they will all be like that (who knows ). i think that because this park is such a part of the image, that maybe you are already there when you use the verse. i had a good pic of the friend gate which had the park shape on it (of course i can't find it), but look at this on the entrance to the japanese tea garden (top and sides of picture),  it almost has the two half circles from the image (at the bottom of image 1): http://indospectrum.com/photo/cd018_ent ... ea_garden1 and look, that middle symbol almost has "JJP"

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Maybe some point below Geary further along...? If you go right to the end and then drop down, you're back at my other favourite haunt... Anza. Between two armza. (This route starts at the RLS plaque, takes you down a bit, along Geary from end to end, and down a bit, as described here . He was San Fransisco's first Mayor. "Or May" always reminded me of "Mayor".)

that reminded me WhiteRabbit, another thing for verse 6........eyes of old............abe lincoln, always called "old abe"............lincoln way and "bar that binds"=gate.........and the white house close-the conservatory. but i still like verse 6 with charleston

Also at this site: On the 8th "A" seen ...opposite another sign...(the "dragon scales" one is roughly between them)... Embedded in the sand (Under the beach natch. There's a path running behind this one. Between that and the road is my best guess.)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/63857459@N00/382446680/ closest thing i've seen to design on dress (the squares, blocks): http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Golde ... vilion.jpg not sure where the bamboo forest is located in golden gate park, but bamboo is used for making [b]"POLES" [/b] giant bamboo, giant pole

Here is an inspirational article that I found while investigating the history of Golden Gate Park. I like the last sentence. http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=The_Statue_of_a_Heroic_Crusader_who_Spent_his_Life_Fighting_to_Keep_Statues_out_of_Golden_Gate_Park. John McLaren statue, McLaren Rhododendron Dell, Golden Gate Park. John McLaren, Supervisor of Golden Gate Park from 1890 until his death in 1943, detested statues. He hated them with such a passion that he defied the City authorities and persisted in his lifelong crusade to keep Golden Gate Park statue-free. It is fitting, then, that for his efforts McLaren was immortalized in the form of--what else? --a statue, which may be found near the entrance to the Rhododendron Dell that bears his name. Interestingly, the McLaren statue is placed at the very back of a hedged-off grassy space, far from the gaze of visitors. Perhaps those responsible for the statue felt a tinge of guilt. By attempting to conceal the McLaren statue, they were following McLaren's own policy of "if you can't beat 'em, hide 'em." When McLaren lost his battles against those who wanted to erect a statue, he exacted revenge by re-arranging the park to make the statue as unobtrusive as possible. Usually he did so by planting trees, shrubs, and assorted verdant objects on all sides of the offending idol. To this day, most of the dozens of statues that grace (or deface) Golden Gate Park are so well-concealed by McLaren's greenery that few visitors even suspect their existence. If you boldly follow the less-trodden paths through the eastern half of the park, you will undoubtedly experience the thrill of blundering upon some of the hidden statues. Like the explorers who discovered the overgrown ruins of ancient Mayan temples, you will marvel at nature's (and, in this case, McLaren's) power to take back what civilization has wrought. --Dr. Weirde

slappybuns wrote:: [b]"POLES" [/b] giant bamboo, giant pole I understood that the giant pole was "The Goddess of the Forest" 26 feet tall and 21 feet girth at base, carved by Dudley C Carter in 1939 but was moved in 1986 as it was rotting away. Where was it in the park? Also, the park was wrecked by a storm in 1995.

I've been fumbling here for a bit.  Something about Glenwood Springs, CO has me looking deeper. Doc Holliday's gravestone. Grey giant, the gondola tower on the right.

wk wrote:: I understood that the giant pole was "The Goddess of the Forest" 26 feet tall and 21 feet girth at base, carved by Dudley C Carter in 1939 but was moved in 1986 as it was rotting away. Where was it in the park? Also, the park was wrecked by a storm in 1995. The goddess of the forest is a very good possiblity for the giant Pole,  Unfortunately I dug completely around it to a depth of 4 feet and found nothing. it was west of Highway one. on John F Kennedy Blvd,  Approximately where 30th intercepts JFK Blvd. yet until the solutions are published/released or somebody finds an SF casque, it is merely a possiblity.

Reading about Glenwood Springs history I came across one of its infamous prisoners, Ted Bundy.  The bars on the cave opening gave me the idea.  Bundy managed to escape from his cell by sawing through a bar with a hacksaw blade and his escape wasn't noticed for 17 hours. I thought the facial characteristics of the woman were similaar to those of Doc Holiliday

Please help analyze these images for anything that might be considered a possible link.

I must be imagining things, but something here just looks similar to me. Dude's look totally different in drag...

erexere wrote:: I've been fumbling here for a bit.  Something about Glenwood Springs, CO has me looking deeper. Now we are in CO?  Not a geography genius but I'm pretty sure that the Centennial State has no port cities. I am pretty convinced that the list of locations we are working on right now are casque resting places. Let's not veer too far off course here guys.

fox wrote:: Now we are in CO?  Not a geography genius but I'm pretty sure that the Centennial State has no port cities. I am pretty convinced that the list of locations we are working on right now are casque resting places. Let's not veer too far off course here guys. Doh!  I knew something felt wrong about CO.  I had little to nothing to go on anyhow.  Thanks for the course correction, Fox.

maltedfalcon wrote:: The goddess of the forest is a very good possiblity for the giant Pole,  Unfortunately I dug completely around it to a depth of 4 feet and found nothing. it was west of Highway one. on John F Kennedy Blvd,  Approximately where 30th intercepts JFK Blvd. yet until the solutions are published/released or somebody finds an SF casque, it is merely a possiblity. ....but was it a "giant step" away where the shadow of the giant pole was on the month of June at 6 o'clock just like the original Masquade?

I'm going through a statue phase at the moment. Considering I1 V6, it seems a heck of a coincidence that we have a plaque for RLS, a plaque for Edwin, and a great big chinese statue all right next to each other. The uneven paving of St Mary's Square reminds me of the dragon scales. And just check out that collar. It's adorned with Chinese hieroglyphics like the image. And his hands are like the mountains. I appreciate that the image has a strong resonance with GGP, but maybe this is an area pointer like the Water Tower. Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old RLS plaque. Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him Foundation of Equity at Edwin Booth's place in NY. Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds (Due south of Alcatraz, just as the pearl in the pic is below the bars?) Beside the long palm's shadow Near the statue Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand. Still a lot of unknowns here, but maybe worth a visit. It's two blocks from Clay St., named after Henry Clay who had a hand in the Emancipation Proclamation. Statue is Sun Yat Sen. (Note reference to suns in the Chinese section of the intro. I know people hate this intro but it does give us FOY so it can't be all bad.) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Yat-sen Sculptor is Benny Bufano. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benny_Bufano

Unknown: The Open Era of tennis began in 1968, when most world-class tournaments first allowed professional players as well as amateurs to enter. Prior to the Open Era, only amateurs could enter the world's most prestigious tournaments, including the Grand Slams, leaving many of the top players of the day out of the competition. The distinction between professionals and amateurs had long been artificial and unfair, because many amateurs were receiving substantial compensation under the table. Once the governing bodies of tennis saw the light and allowed open competition, almost all of the top players became professionals. The quality of the major tournaments, the popularity of tennis, and the prize money for the players all surged strongly in response to the new Open Era rules. Beside the long palm’s shadow “Long palm” is the ancestor of tennis…might be a clue for the tennis courts at GGP (33 on the map). http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Longue_paume Image 1 has various hints for 68. The fingers point at the 8th and 6th squares… …and 68 is also suggested in the dragon’s coils… 1968 was the beginning of “Open” tennis. Tennis racquet…? I previously suggested SF’s Lafayette Park, straight down Clay from the RLS statue at Portsmouth Square Plaza, and this could also indicate the tennis courts at Lafayette. These have sand and a white house conveniently situated. (Found a nice mosaic dragon in "Dragon Park" in Nashville by looking at the coords 86, 36...but I don't suppose he'd be very popular.)

long palm - that reference makes total sense! I bet wherever that verse points, Long Palm = tennis court..

I'm glad you approve. A court does seem to go with the scene where law defended. I think you once offered to go dig up Lafayette if I could find the bar that binds. Well, I can't...so you'll just have to go and look for it yourself...

Don't I wish it were near the dragon statue in Nashville! I drive by that thing almost every day going to and from work.

I feel strongly though I can't yet guess any one specific place of focus that image 1 pairs with verse 10 and is narrowed down by the 110 thousand people who were entered into Japanese internment camps after the attacks on Pearl Harbor.  Perhaps the focal point is one particular camp site.

http://www.du.edu/behindbarbedwire/amac ... bered.html Something uncanny about the shape of that memorial stone. It checks out per-80s timeline.  The Camp Amache has a strict grid pattern, similar to a fence or tennis racket or even a grenade, since it is in the area of Granada, CO. Hmm, dragon, draconian, harsh or hard..."him of hard word...". It was Roosevelt who put forth the intermnent order.  Rose on pedestal = Roosevelt President? Post hmm, "G" "h" printed backward could be a clue about a language that may be printed right to left the reverse of English.  There are several options, Japanese is among them (also vertical top down). The spiritual approach is invited on this image.  Dualism.  The heart of the mountain, a prison in need of opening through transcendence, mind over matter.  Maybe it's Bhuddist, but it Is without a symbol for the Noble Eight Fold Path.

erexere wrote:: maltedfalcon, the Enterprise was the name of that first balloon ride.  You've focused on pic 1 with verse 5 for SF right?   I've become convinced verse 5 goes with pic 6, so I'm not able to help further your SF approach that way.  Could verse 10 work?  Does the pic have a CA shape hidden anywhere? I totally see the SF in pic 1, it's practically a rebus.  I think it's potentially misleading, but putting us on a stepping stone in the right direction.  In the Japanese Internment theory it works because people of Japanese origin were gathered from SF and taken to Manzanar in next to Sierra Nevada, but the "No-No Boys", people who failed to answer two specific questions pertaining to renunciation of all loyalty to Japan and whether they would be willing to serve in American military, were sent specifically to Tule Lake.  Tule Lake was seen as the "Alcatraz" of Japanese Internment. I think I actually read that somewhere (sorry, no citation).  Hence the prison gate in the mountain.  Tule Lake is in an area next to the National Lava Beds, so there are lots of volcanic formations including large cinder cone (large grey giant?).  Typical volcanic rock colors are reddish orange and grey.  I think verse 10 works with this in a very significant way, because I found a memorial stone that looks similar to pic 1 (neck line below collar) and is located in the area of aisle B on a grid plot that has rows/columns ranging E through K.  Extrapolation is required to see the location as aisle B. Carried over from verse 5 discussion, really a verse 10 topic.

a minor problem with your theory is the lat/lon of san francisco is prominent in the image. however that lat/lon of tule lake is not.

Heck, that's no minor problem...I think my theory is trashed...but something might be salvaged.  The area in SF called little Tokyo maybe?  I think something close to GGB or where the Relocation process took place might be a direction to look into. I'm went off track looking at various camp sites.  I'd still like to see verse 10 go with this.

Little Tokyo is downtown and there really arent any parks there. any way however this turns out I'm almost sure its still image 1 verse 7, and the golden gate headlands. I will let you know after I go dig..

actully when you think about the map of the golden gate on her forhead pratically screams Golden Gate Headlands....

Just to the left of the woman's right eye there is a body shape in the rock.  Any ideas?

you'll have to be more specific, in those rocks I have seen everything from JFK and Abraham Lincoln to Judy (of Punch and Judy) to 2 american Indian women facing to the right. I have not seen a map of California nor a map of the San Francisco Peninsula. However  I actually do have an idea for that particular spot of the painting, and along with the Barred Window, I believe it is a site confirmer. and actually I had always thought that the location I was looking in could not be correct, because I thought BP would "have" to use this particular object as a site confirmer. but I couldnt find it until last week, when I realized he pictured it from behind... So now I have two almost certain site confirmers. As soon as I get out there and dig, I will let you know what I was thinking. But I do want to expand on "Site Confirmers" in the paintings. I noticed that most of the site confirmers in the Cleveland painting cannot be seen from the actual location of the casque. (Eggbert, if you are still around, can you confirm this?) But you could step away from the casque location and you would then be able to view the casque location and see several of the site confirmers. Not so much in Chicago, but if I am right, definitely in San Francisco. Hope to get out there and dig the first week of december, give or take

Good luck!  I'm very interested in which verse you've decided fits best with those confirmers.  Hopefully not verses 5 or 7. Yeah, i'm going to have to give you an outline of the image that im focused on.  You can see anything your minds eye wants to...right now it looks like a farmer / rancher dude.  I'm thinking this is a San Bruno.

Image1-verse7

The cartoon Lincoln/swollen JFK face just above the rose? I got the same initial impression as MF when I saw it (minus the Judy and the squaws). If it is a Lincoln profile, then it's not the real Lincoln's profile. I'll have to post up my photos from my trip to SF last May. I was looking at I1-V7 then. I was visiting friends for Bay To Breakers and six of us spent Saturday wandering from park to park looking from the picture for site confirmers. I was most hopeful that there would be something at Russian Hill Park. Coming down the stairs there along Larkin St. you can see... The backwards 'Gh' of the Ghiradelli sign (Maybe also 'The air smells sweet') Gallileo high school (Education) Alcatraz (Justice) The three masts of the Balaclutha at the Hyde St. pier (High post are three) It felt very much like "Hey! I can see a lot of confirmers all from one park!" Unfortunately, not a pole in sight and nothing from the image clicking other than 'Gh'.

I'm really starting to believe this is verse 2. The Gh really fits the Ghiradeli square at the north side.  Follow the roads south looking for landmarks along the way Brings you in the direction of Tanforan in San Bruno.  In 1951 the South San Fran High School was established at the 400B site where there is a football field with three tall light posts.  Their team is the Warriors and use an Indian Chief head with feathers as their emblem. I think the mountains in the background represent having to pass to the other side of San Bruno mountain region to get to the location.

Could be, until we find a casque all theories are equal.

The aerial image looks about 15 rows on the home stand.  Right now I'm wondering if "rose" on a "stand" from where you "watch" the football game is how we should read this image.

There's a lot of ideas about what might be the 'object of Twain's attention'... Hrrmph...I don't know what it could be.

im pretty sure that where ever the verse leads you the object of twains attention would be obvious or at least it would have been in 1982 If it isnt/wasnt your probably in the wrong place.

It's not obvious at all. Twain wrote about everything from middle Eastern religion to fairy tales--and at well over 300 written and published works, it's pretty difficult to tell what captured his attention at any particular time. He lived in New York City, San Francisco, Missouri, and a host of other places--he traveled all over the world. His first published best-selling book was "Innocents Abroad," which details a trip taken on a paddle-wheel ship to Europe and the Holy Land, and which he serialized in the newspaper for nearly a year then compounded into a single book. It sold like hotcakes. It was the sequel to his book "Roughing It" which details his trip to the western regions of North America. He was interested in the theatre, in law, language, religion--this was truly--TRULY--a Renaissance man!  In my humble opinion, this is one of the most enigmatic of any line in any of the verses Preiss wrote. And I am convinced he knew it!

It could also be "twain" (noun) for divided into two parts...a land feature with a split perspective?...it sure bothers me to associate verse 7 with anything other than New Orleans, but it is a valuable exercise to work with other combinations, just to be suprised by the results.

shecrab wrote:: It's not obvious at all. Twain wrote about everything from middle Eastern religion to fairy tales--and at well over 300 written and published works, it's pretty difficult to tell what captured his attention at any particular time.  this is one of the most enigmatic of any line in any of the verses Preiss wrote. And I am convinced he knew it! You are preaching to the choir, BP is responsible for me reading every single published (and some not published) Mark Twain Works, Every book, newspaper article, magazine article, Letter, and speech.  For this alone I am extremely grateful to BP.  (still haven't finished his new autobiography though...) But yes I believe it is/will be extremely obvious, If (big if here) you are standing in the correct spot. If you are in the correct spot then visible to you will be something obviously associated with Mark Twain. I dont think it will be vague, you are so correct, in that Mark Twain's attention was captured by so many things.  When I was digging at The Giant Totem pole in Golden Gate Park, the thing that bugged me the most was, "I believed that the object of Twain's attention should be obvious" and there was just nothing there. So I drew a map centered on "The Goddess of the Forests"' base with compass lines pointing at things Mark Twain mentioned. Out of 360 degrees, only about 25 degrees of space (southeast) did not point at something Mark Twain wrote about. I ended up digging entirely around the  base. (thats a lot of dirt). In 20/20 hindsite I realize The Goddess of the forest was the wrong place to dig on so many levels. Its only vague because we have not yet stood in the correct spot. (actually I have about 20 times and now that I think about it I kick myself.)

MF, I'm in the process of reading through most of Twain's works as well. (Got them for free on my Kindle!) At any rate....I think it's gonna be something simple. Something that we'll all do face-palms after.  However, that said, I don't believe verse 7 goes with San Francisco--I believe it goes with Image 12--New York. The whole verse fits, even the Twain. I got the whole thing to work out to Battery Park at the tip of Manhattan. The giant pole is there--it's the giant STEP I can't determine, though I have a couple of possiblities.

Well, My Giant Pole is gone, but my giant step is there as is an object of twains attention I thought the pole was removed in the early 90s but I have now found a picture of the area without the pole, that could have been taken anytime after the 60s (based on the cars in the picture) I am trying to get a firm date for the removal. If the pole was removed prior to 1981 then you are most probably correct.

MaltedF, will you check out Grand View Park and see if something lines up to look like the Pole and Step?  I think you're still distracted by GG Park. I found a few good photos that shoe then GG bridge in the distance while standing at Grand View Park.  The barred gate's size in the image matches the perspective size of GG.  I'd say that's a good clue.  This hasn't been altered in terms of resizing, it's 1:1 book scan to photo and so it's the only way to distinguish whether a perspective method like this is in play, Nearby the Moraga Steps look very interesting (disregard the tiled mural, it's recent). About Coit Tower, I couldnt make it work., theres a long steps there but again im not convinced of its viability.

Nope I left GGpark years ago when I figured out that GGpark was the Iconic image and the start of the Picture Path for Image 1 The next thing I had to figure out was where was the end of the journey and where did the verse start. I knew several things. Since there are so many roads leading away from GGpark, The picture would have to tell me which one to take, and of course it would have to tell me where to stop or turn. lastly once I got there the picture would need to have at least two site confirmers hidden in the pictures. So I looked and looked until I found a spot that fulfilled all those qualifications. Of course I still could be totally wrong, any of my suppositions above could be incorrect, but I tried to learn everything I could from the two found Caches and concentrated on only what I knew worked in those finds. So now I have my end point and there I found two site confirmers, the first being the Barred Window which is a doorway with exactly the same shape/height/width shown in the image and bars. And standing in the doorway I can see another site confirmer found in the image (but it is well hidden) the question is which verse? im trying to find out if the giant Pole was even there in 1981. it might not have been. but other verses just dont fit.

The "pedastal" with watch and rose matches the antique street lamp post on Sutter street.  Look closely at the shape of the "torch arms". Malted, I mean no disrespect as I feel obligated to look for alternatives.  You say the GGP is an iconic image and the start of the path.  I think thats a problem.  The start seems more likely the view of Alcatraz from the pier near Ghirahdeli Chocolatier.  From there, the reverse view of Gh informs us to go south on Larkin.  At the corner of Larkin and Sutter i believe there is/was a confirmer to turn right.  You pass by "Little Japan" and continue to the middle of the North side of GGP and then "crossover" to 19th street using Crossover St.  Continue till you come to the corner of an Orthodox church and Lawton street (Education and Justice) but dont turn, continue to 19th and Moraga where you will find your next confirmer on the Northeast corner (ask me if you dont see it, but I'm sure you will pee yourself when you do), turn left head straight to the top of Grand View Park.

Absolutely no disrespect taken or felt in any way! Your views are equal to mine, Everything I say is a theory, guesswork and wishful thinking. Personally I have never ever bought into Gh = Ghirarhdeli other than the font is similar. If you can point me to a lamp post in SF that matches the silhouette I would appreciate it. I have found many that are similar but none that match. where is exactly is the lamp on sutter st you are talking about. I looked for the confirmer on the corner of 19th and Moraga, but I must be blind I don't see it. The lamppost isnt the same shape as the silhouette, the windows on the building don't match the image. I give up? One thing I think, is you are using the verse to move through the city. (that's the job of the image) by the time you get to the immediate location of the casque, you wont have enough verse left to specifically guide you to the exact spot to dig. remember in the two found casques the picture verse leads you through a continuous journey with no "jump aheads " you're basically guided the entire way. (once you figure out where to start) lastly the verse states aces high, running north, but first across, yet you take highway 1 ( crossover st. ) and head south. why did you head south?

Honestly I was only theorizing abojut the lamp post at Larkin and Sutter, but since just now checking on google street view i confirmed it is there.  The shape of the rose stem is also built into it.  Its not that unique, there are more on Sutter.  I dont know SF so well, so they could be else place. The Moraga and 19th has a blue building with tall narrow sash style window work that matches the sleeves in the picture. Why south? I dont have a good answer...why not?  As for left over verse, im not sure we need much in this case...just get your butt up to Grand View Park sometime and figure it out.

actually went there in about 2005 or 6 when I was trying to find an alternative to the Goddess of the Forest.

Looking closely these aren't exact matches, but they all look suspiciously close. Note the curling stem of the rose fits the design of the attaching arm to the light post.

Not too excited about the lamp post matching the pedestal...sure, it is kind of similar but....  Now, as for the strange windows on the blue building.....that is nice , there are, however, 2 rows of blocks on her sleeve but 3 rows of blocks on the window. falcon, where exactly is this exact match for the window?  Would love to see it.  What was the other site confirmer you can see?  Are we finally getting close to unearthing another casque.........I sure hope so.  How about a little inspirational digging music?

Similarities are the key here..."exact matches" aren't really getting us anywhere. I've appreciated the warnings to not go too far into anything like my interest in the Japanese Intermnent idea that led me to consider all the locations where people were interred, but that is just one point of view.  Looking instead at where it began might be less ambiguous...the order was signed at The Presidio.  I think the artistic rendering of a prison bar gate and Asian ethnic yfocus strictly points to this historical event.  Preiss might only be using JJP to work in the motif to point to the Path that Sutter or Geary takes through those ethnic districts...or a specific connection to a street like the Park Presidio Boulevard which connects to Crossover St. (arms crossed).  Connecting to Moraga continues to make more sense.  If I'm right about the detail of the rose stem looking distinctive like the street lamps along Sutter then the tall-narrow sash windows set in blue at a slightly elevated level fits a pattern in perspective as indicated by looking up a little like we do with seeing the barred door over the woman's head. The watch at the center of the pedestal concerns me.  What is at 6 o'clock?  Or does it represent the jewel and a spot from which to "watch" or see all the confirmers.  Is it a spot exactly in the middle of a round area?  If so, it also works to consider Grand View Park which is basically a round mound hill top.

unless you find somewhere with exact matches.

Have to agree with falcon here....especially if he will once and for all tell us where his exact matches are Both finds in Chicago and Cleveland had EXACT matches abound....why not other ones?

I also agree. I doubt seriously that BP would have made a puzzle with only "similiarities" in the paintings when the solutions were so exact. That was the POINT of the paintings, actually--to show the VISUALLY EXACT matches that pinpoint the location of the casques--otherwise, you will be looking for a single square yard of soil in an area that is hundreds or thousands of square yards large.

I don't think these are exact.  Very similar is what we are looking for.  The Doric style of the columns is retained, but the smooth finish in the image isn't evident in the grooved actual columns.  The dimensions of width and proportion are off as well in the wall. As for the narrow sleeves with 2 columns verses 3, I'm looking at the same sort of similarity, tall narrow grid patterned elements.  This arched window with the narrow 2-columned sash windows fits the bill slightly as well.  It's the San Francisco Public Library on 19th and Irving. The top of the watch and the exact basic pattern of the post below the table top fits this antique lamp post at Sutter/Powell. This puts me on a path near Union Square which makes me have to consider something related to Alma de Bretteville Spreckels, since her likeness is established as the figure high up on the Dewey Monument which also commemorates William Mckinley...it honors THREE in one (High posts are three).  The wiki article on Spreckles really fuels my suspicions when it refers to Sam Hill AND Auguste Rodin since I've worked on two other solution prospects that are central to them (image 6 = Sam Hill, and image 3 = Rodin (RodanTHE)). Does anything in this image suggest "tea time" or sugar cubes? EDIT; okay, that didnt take long to come across a reference in tea etiquette about the thumb position at 6 o'clock and pinky at 12 o'clock...is that what the clock piece signifies?  This puzzle seems to be imbued with sugary tea goodness. Going into new directions, away from the Grant View or Buena Vista park ideas, I'm looking at the Italian elements that might lead to Dolores Park.

@Erexere Understand I am not trying to Shoot down your ideas at all, I agree with several totally. I am trying to be vague on purpose What I am trying to do is, without hinting "hot" or "cold" see if someone else independently comes up with my results, based on the Picture Path Theory of the Image. If nobody does, then most likely my idea is flawed. however if someone applies the same rules I do and comes up with the same result. The idea gains credence. I will say, jumping to the verse and ignoring the image, Or assuming that the image is just a general location, has never worked. You need both. The image must show you where to start the verse, or you're most likely in the wrong place.  At the very least, when you choose where to start the verse,you need to be able to backwards engineer the picture to get you to that exact spot.

I'm down with trying o replicate your findings, but I'm struggling with your theory and I understand that tailoring my approach doesn't help your effort. Tell me, does the Tea etiquette idea fit for you?  Perhaps a T-intersection?

no idea, however there is a T intersection at both ends of the Picture Path as I see it. BTW Teatime is 4pm not 6pm Also notice the face is looking forward. Meaning go straight. Since GGpark has no real address it is surrounded by streets, the question is, Which street is your path to go straight on?

BTW are you local to SF? we could meet up when I finally schedule a dig. any body else would be welcome too...

Thanks, I've never been to SF.  I'm in Eugene, Oregon.  I would gladly support your dig attempt in spirit though. Im getting more confused each time I question what is really designed to be the iconic image.  The celestial bodies or circles could be domes all over the town, like the observatory, city hall or many of the churches.  Sounds from the sky, maybe Carillon Bell towers?  Maybe the iconic image is simply the Door?  Or heck, maybe it is just as you say, GGP.

Erexere, I think you're 100% spot on with your lampost match including the top of the clock and the rose stem spiral.

The rose stem spiral is almost generic, found in lots of spots around the city on sign fixtures, fences and facades.  For all we know it is simply a wordplay device "Spiral" = spy + rail = "look for a rail or rail car".  I'm going to guess that BP took those trolleys despite their being in peak crappy condition at the time. The Powell street post is certainly a find.  I had used a Sutter street edition in the earlier pic, which wasn't as good a fit.  The top Or stem-wind of the pocket watch is VERY convincing when paired with the portion of table below.  This location throws me...I don't really know where to go next? I see slappybuns already gave consideration to the Dragon Gate at Bush/Grant near Union Square and mentioned the Dewey Monument.  I sure like its being a three part dedication as a high post idea.  I also like the triple lit lamp posts along Market Street.

Unknown: The role of this proof in history is the subject of much speculation. The underlying question is why Euclid did not use this proof, but invented another. One conjecture is that the proof by similar triangles involved a theory of proportions, a topic not discussed until later in the Elements, and that the theory of proportions needed further development at that time. I noticed the proportions are very similar between the doors to the Exploratorium and the Sleeve squares, also the color is similar.  The Exploratorium door is in a stone wall and is located next to Bay St.  Included is the small lake shape that looks like it contains an inlet which implies a bay.  Perhaps this is similar to how the triangle in the sphere/circle might be a clue to go down Euclid St. in the Cleveland image. more on the Euclid triangle (does it look equilateral?) Euclid used a construction with compass method and two intersecting circles to proof that all angles were equal for an equilateral triangle:

no it doesn't, the base is obviously longer than the side, look at it sideways.  Its not even a right triangle. again, I seriously dont equate it with Euclid But I like how you are working with the image to find a street, I have often wondered if that lake = the bay. The exploratoriam door frames are cement not stone, but I think you could consider cement stone for the purposes of this hunt. The sleve squares are similar but they arent really that close. are they?

So, zero chance of recovering it from Union Square?  It underwent a renovation in 1998 that included lots of paving.

yes there is no soil left on union square that wasnt removed and replaced during the renovation. the square was completely stripped down to the concrete parking lot under it. yet not a cause for alarm, because i'm pretty sure thats not anywhere near where it was buried.

well, I'm only jumping to conclusions.  I thought about using the dragon on the dress to signify the Drake hotel after following my version of the picture maze, which is a detail to turn in the direction of Union Square.  Having little verse left, (still lost on Education and Justice...) I am back to thinking the Dewey monument is our Giant Pole.

erexere wrote:: Better pic of lamp at Montgomery and Sutter. (the first one I come to based on a path I'm working on) The top of the watch is the most recognizable portion with it's pointy bell shape matching the top of the light.

Now that most recent angle on the lamp posts....I can buy into.  That is a pretty darn good match for the watch pedestal in the pic.  Falcon, are these posts scattered all around SF or just in this one area?

I can't answer that for sure, but I've seen at least 3 old style posts that have those features.  Most on Sutter, some on Powell and Market, and then some at the Palace of the Legion of Honor. This next image is similar to the Exploratorium doors but maybe more similar to the sleeves.  The back side of the Bill Graham Civic Auditorium.

Big news, or half-big, depending on how you look at it...just in the way the top of the Cleveland Terminal Tower is outlined upside down in the shape of the space between the branches of image 4, I'm very confident the half or right-sided upside down shape of the Transamerica Pyramid building is outlined on the left side of image 1 just above the eye level of the woman where the water meets the rock.  I'll work on putting in the visual later when I'm on my home computer, it's very convincing.  Too bad it has to be only one side, so it won't shrug off scrutiny, but this being said, I think this HAS to be the start path or iconic image. Where I was worried about Union Square being our candidate for a treasure ground, now I'm less worried.  I expect one or two long streets will lead us to a park setting where we will find our giant pole...or at least where it once stood.

Actually I know right where you are talking about. looked at it many times. yet compare that to any other bldg image in the picture water tower, terminal tower City hall, castle... They are all quite detailed. this is just a line that generally (not exactly) follows the contour of one part of a building. Personnally (and this is just my opinion,) I think it's not. To answer your questions old lamp posts of that style are everywhere in San Francisco, even worse, old plain lamposts are commonly replaced with reproduction old style posts. SF enjoys retro styling, for example they have brought back and restored many old style street cars from the 30s and and 40s and 50s. Things that would not have been there in the 80s are in place and styled as or restored so that they look like they have been there all along. It is actually pretty easy to find a lamp post that generally matches the outline, yet if you look the shape of the glass lamp is usually rounded, however the shape of the silhouette under the table has flatter sides or is squared. Several locations have the triple top lampposts that could be High posts are three, however no matter where you go in SF Sutro tower is above and near everything. I'm pretty sure that's high points are three, unless you actually found the casque under a triple topped lamp post.

Actually I know right where you are talking about. looked at it many times. yet compare that to any other bldg image in the picture water tower, terminal tower City hall, castle... They are all quite detailed. this is just a line that generally (not exactly) follows the contour of one part of a building. Personnally (and this is just my opinion,) I think it's not. To answer your questions old lamp posts of that style are everywhere in San Francisco, even worse, old plain lamposts are commonly replaced with reproduction old style posts. SF enjoys retro styling, for example they have brought back and restored many old style street cars from the 30s and and 40s and 50s. Things that would not have been there in the 80s are in place and styled as or restored so that they look like they have been there all along. It is actually pretty easy to find a lamp post that generally matches the outline, yet if you look the shape of the glass lamp is usually rounded, however the shape of the silhouette under the table has flatter sides or is squared. Several locations have the triple top lampposts that could be High posts are three, however no matter where you go in SF Sutro tower is above and near everything. I'm pretty sure that's high points are three, unless you actually found the casque under a triple topped lamp post.

Glad you brought up the retro lamp activity..yet another hole in the leaky boat of theories. Im generally skeptical on the partial match but as a perfect half image, I am going to give it some weight until i cant reason where we are to be led.  If its just wrong, i'll have a suitably strained solution as usual.  ::) Sutro Tower eh?  I like that very much, because it serves well as an Aligner (more of my custom reasure hunt jargon) with what is ultimately the Giant pole/step. The last few days of exploration have really inspired me to rethink the other images, including my Sam Hill Memorial in Corbett, Oregon idea. Edit; it's clear to me now that the verse doesnt waste itself with details about where to start the path.  At stonewalls door must be in view of the casque.

Glad you brought up the retro lamp activity..yet another hole in the leaky boat of theories. Im generally skeptical on the partial match but as a perfect half image, I am going to give it some weight until i cant reason where we are to be led.  If its just wrong, i'll have a suitably strained solution as usual.  ::) Sutro Tower eh?  I like that very much, because it serves well as an Aligner (more of my custom reasure hunt jargon) with what is ultimately the Giant pole/step. The last few days of exploration have really inspired me to rethink the other images, including my Sam Hill Memorial in Corbett, Oregon idea. Edit; it's clear to me now that the verse doesnt waste itself with details about where to start the path.  At stonewalls door must be in view of the casque.

I dont think you can actually see it from the casque site because of the Giant step. But thats still just a theory.

I'm focused on Alice Marble Tennis Court area now.  Not 100% but the stone wall is like a door for the steps. I wonder if the watch is a reference to Greenwich street.

or perhaps its just a clock, there are several others in the images. Would they all point to Greenwich st?

maltedfalcon wrote:: or perhaps its just a clock, there are several others in the images. Would they all point to Greenwich st? Unknown: He is depicted twice in Jack London's novels: as Russ Brissenden in the autobiographical Martin Eden (1909) and as Mark Hall in The Valley of the Moon (1913). Indeed, I just finished a very loose interpretation starting with Transamerica building as the iconic image off on the left side with the half/partial image outline, taking the diagonal street Columbus on a whim (i.e. I don't know why or why not yet), then turning left on Bay St. (again, not sure why, maybe the little blue patch between partial building outline and woman's head), then just before the intersection of Larkin and Bay where just the "Gh" (reverse that) comes into view there is a stair leading southward up to the Russian Open Space resevoir (Giant Step?), continue on a block to the stone retaining wall breaks for a diagonal stairway leading into the center of the George Sterling Memorial/Alice Marble tennis park area.  It was just a side note rather than an impulse that lead to the idea that Greenwich could actually be for what the watch in this image means. Again, a very loose interpretation, but from that area a lot of things surrounding previous discussions fit into place.  Two blocks away from Ghirradeli the air probably still smells sweet.  The barred door/window in the mountain might still represent the Golden Gate Bridge, the GG Park is near, perhaps in view, the Sutro Tower must be visible, but I don't know for sure. An alternate iconic image might be the watch-wind and table base which looks like just about any light post in the historic downtown of SF where you can catch a rail car that goes up Columbia and turns down Bay...I don't know, is(was) there a MUNI line that did that? I really really like this site, as the aerial photos from 1980 indicate nothing much has changed to the grounds around the courts.  The interpretation of "Education and Justice" might lend itself to the tennis "court" equating to Justice.  Now there just needs to be a school nearby. Edit; about George Sterling, the wiki has some trivia that caught my eye: Could this be why there are so many moons in the sky of the image?

maltedfalcon wrote:: or perhaps its just a clock, there are several others in the images. Would they all point to Greenwich st? Unknown: He is depicted twice in Jack London's novels: as Russ Brissenden in the autobiographical Martin Eden (1909) and as Mark Hall in The Valley of the Moon (1913). Indeed, I just finished a very loose interpretation starting with Transamerica building as the iconic image off on the left side with the half/partial image outline, taking the diagonal street Columbus on a whim (i.e. I don't know why or why not yet), then turning left on Bay St. (again, not sure why, maybe the little blue patch between partial building outline and woman's head), then just before the intersection of Larkin and Bay where just the "Gh" (reverse that) comes into view there is a stair leading southward up to the Russian Open Space resevoir (Giant Step?), continue on a block to the stone retaining wall breaks for a diagonal stairway leading into the center of the George Sterling Memorial/Alice Marble tennis park area.  It was just a side note rather than an impulse that lead to the idea that Greenwich could actually be for what the watch in this image means. Again, a very loose interpretation, but from that area a lot of things surrounding previous discussions fit into place.  Two blocks away from Ghirradeli the air probably still smells sweet.  The barred door/window in the mountain might still represent the Golden Gate Bridge, the GG Park is near, perhaps in view, the Sutro Tower must be visible, but I don't know for sure. An alternate iconic image might be the watch-wind and table base which looks like just about any light post in the historic downtown of SF where you can catch a rail car that goes up Columbia and turns down Bay...I don't know, is(was) there a MUNI line that did that? I really really like this site, as the aerial photos from 1980 indicate nothing much has changed to the grounds around the courts.  The interpretation of "Education and Justice" might lend itself to the tennis "court" equating to Justice.  Now there just needs to be a school nearby. Edit; about George Sterling, the wiki has some trivia that caught my eye: Could this be why there are so many moons in the sky of the image?

The George Sterling Memorial/Alice Marble tennis courts is one of the parks I visited last May. It was actually my friend Patrick's first choice of spots to check out. You can't tell from the (google map) aerial photos, but the little plaza to the west side of the courts has some tiling. It was the first place that clicked in Patrick's mind when he saw the dragon's tiling. At the site we noticed two things. 1. The bricks looked nothing like the dragon's tile. My memory's hazy, but I think it was a very regular/diagonal pattern. 2. There was a plaque indicating the park had been renovated within the past decade.

ChunkTug wrote:: The George Sterling Memorial/Alice Marble tennis courts is one of the parks I visited last May. It was actually my friend Patrick's first choice of spots to check out. You can't tell from the (google map) aerial photos, but the little plaza to the west side of the courts has some tiling. It was the first place that clicked in Patrick's mind when he saw the dragon's tiling. At the site we noticed two things. 1. The bricks looked nothing like the dragon's tile. My memory's hazy, but I think it was a very regular/diagonal pattern. 2. There was a plaque indicating the park had been renovated within the past decade. That's not too unsettling, the renovations may have only been minor, such as resurfacing the tennis courts and landscaping the parking area if not also laying down those tiles.  I doubt they dug a foot deep to install tiles.  We might get lucky and discover the casque is beneath one of those tiles!  It would've been a big 'hello' if the tiles did match the image in any way. I'm still very unsure about how to proceed with the final locate.  Is it an alignment of "giant pole" and something in the image that provides a criss-cross?

none of the previous finds used the image for anything like that before. finding the casque was strictly based on the lines of the verse.

Unknown: Spring 1999 Itinerant Houses: A History of San Francisco¹s House Moving Industry (William Kostura) Only Chicago has had a larger house moving industry. Houses in mid-move used to be a fairly common sight in San Francisco, as this essay shows, and drew the attention of Mark Twain and many others. The author investigates surviving moved buildings, some of which would have been destroyed in 1906 had they been left in place I want to know more about this: What house in particular caught Twain's attention?

maltedfalcon wrote:: none of the previous finds used the image for anything like that before. finding the casque was strictly based on the lines of the verse. True, but those were so much more explicit.  There is room for alternate methods.  Also, what if those were the easy ones...the next casques will be tougher for a reason.

It's all about statistics and odds. It is a possiblity that those 2 were the easy ones, that each casque is its own uniquely concieved hunt. That you cannot take lessons from the two that have been found and apply it to other image/verses. With a statistical sample of 2 (the only ones we have for sure) You are 100 % correct. there is really no way to gather meaningful data. However do we only have a sample of 2? While we have 2 found casques to look at, I would bet even those verse image parings werent solved 100%. Obviously they were solved enough to find the casques, but I believe there was still some clues left in the images. which lead me to the Picture Path Theory. So lets widen our sample to casques that have not been found but casques we have a high probabability for. (Houston, Minneaopolis, Roanoke, St Augustine) In some the verse is very sure, In some the image. Now we suddenly have a very large statistical sample. Suddenly it becomes obvious that there are huge similarities in all the pictures, Lat/lon, maps,site confirmers, iconic images. Again it becomes obvious that the verses have similarities too, they start at a specific spot and describe a ever-narrowing path that takes you to the square foot that the casque is buried under.

So going with that- I would say there could be minor differences. i.e. Rebus in Milwaukee, Seloy in the verse, etc. but that could easily fall well within the idea of site confirmers. Now the idea of having to re-invent the hunt for each different casque strikes me as in-elegant. So I think it would actually be more productive to find the similarities and exploit them to solve the puzzles.

Ok, I should be able to fit in a dig in the next week or so. So I will tell you what I am thinking, Nothing new- earthshaking or ground breaking. Image 1 - The iconic image is of course Golden Gate Park. I don't need to cover the lat/lon - and It goes without saying the dress is backwards. So I take a mirror image of the dress and the G h falls on The Great Highway. and suddenly her fingers are no longer pointing at 4 and 3, they are pointing at 34. Her face is straight ahead, (indicating in my picture path theory go straight!) Go straight on what? GGpark does not have an "address"  Well duh! Go straight on 34th.. 34th leaves GGpark and runs due north. How will I know where to stop??! look just to the left of the lady (or to the right now  that I have flipped the image) who's face is looking straight up, (yes I know it's a caricature) Why its Abraham Lincoln.  So I drive up 34th looking for Lincoln. Oops the road ends! no it doesnt it just goes into this park... Ahhh Lincoln Park... So I pull into the first parking lot. and basically I have completed the picture path, and  oh wait...

There ought to be some site confirmers around here. Oh There's one. Hey look there's another! Can you find them? I am looking at the barred window in the rocks, and that strange shape (above lincoln) just beside the lady's head

I think you are 100% right about iconic image but only mostly right about Picture Path.  Palencar had polaroids, but not locations.  Cleveland was his idea so perhaps that is the main reason why I4 is different.  You have to admit the verses is somewhat non-linear.  Although verse is mostly dedicated to the treasure ground, I think some is used to put you on the path after finding the iconic image. Malted, that is terrific! I see five confirmers!

The verse is non-linear but only deals with the treasure ground. it has nothing to do with getting to the treasure ground. only the image has the info that gets you to the treasure ground.

also bear in mind that several times since 1980s the area has gone under major remodeling. however I'm pretty sure the casque location is untouched. but major clues have been moved/changed/removed.

Here's a good image from pre80's: http://gregpetersonphoto.com/Architectu ... large.html I don't recognize all the cars, but there isn't an 80's among them as far as I can tell. What's this statue in the background? http://www.flickr.com/photos/gitte_syndrome/5638592457/

I have that picture. that is the one that is giving me grief. however it might be from 1985  If it predates 1982 that means its probably not verse 7 unfortunatly nobody remembers when the flagpole was removed.

I don't think the foto of Dad at the legion of honor is at the legion of honor. Its down the road.

I think that photo is of the Columbus statue beside Coit Tower.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I have that picture. that is the one that is giving me grief. however it might be from 1985   If it predates 1982 that means its probably not verse 7 unfortunatly nobody remembers when the flagpole was removed. The Greg Peterson photo doesn't have a specific date but he does state on his website that he lost most of his photography studio to a fire in the late 70's.  I wondered if this was one of the survivors.  It's a very nice photo.  The cars are mostly 60's and 70's.  I see what might be a Pinto wagon, a Datsun, and a 1980 Pontiac Pheonix.  Looks like a white Dodge.  The bright yellow car has me a little stumped...I'm thinking trans am, but pre 82.

which doenst change the fact this is the treasure ground. it just might not be verse 7

I've been looking at the image along the right side of teh pic where the water meets the cliffs. To me the contour line of the cliff looks very suspicious and when mirrored if looks like a building. I can't match it to anything. Thoughts?

I am accustom to staring at something until it looks like a horses rear end.  I can see it, but barely.  Subtle. This looks like a flag pole to me in 1987, a blurry year in general.

the latest definite picture of the flagpole shows it stuck right into the  ground. no base or step. The earliest picture of no flagpole shows the pole removed and it has been replaced by 3 or four parking spots. So what you could be seeing there is two cars parked in that spot. If it was the pole it would be almost invisible. That we are seeing something tells me there is something bigger than a pole there.

Maybe those aren't moons or bubbles at all, they might be white golf balls hailing from above.

some of those do look like balls on tees

Maybe my previous theory on tea etiquette, thumb at 6 o'clock and pinky at 12 o'clock, is our "golf tee" I sense the contrast here is possibly about etquette as about behaving correctly and prison as about behaving incorrectly.

Here there are some good characteristics to suspect this match.  There's a turn in the path right where the part of the hair terminates and there is a nub in the curve at the Y on both.

that is similar. your lower arrow is basically pointing at the spot.but up near the parking lot.

there is no doubt in my mind this is the spot I hope to here back today or tomorrow permission to dig.

Wait for it...wait for it... here's my idea on how to pinpoint the spot, using door, fountain, lamp post top in the image to recreate a perspective, basically the white, yellow and blue lines are all suppose to be the same in both images, only one is overhead and one is funky 2D painting perspective based on one of BP's polaroids.  This is only an example.  It's hard to get it perfect from where I'm sitting.  Get on sight and do the visual math, you'll have a casque before a seagull can paint a target on your head. Notice that the Red Dot is arbitrarily chosen to be where the yin yang symbol is and is also where the casque might be.  Now I question what is the direction of Twain's attention, downtown SF then, or perhaps the direction of the island of Hawaii where he next traveled after SF?

By my calculations you missed by about 30 - 40 yards.

OUch, I don't know how much more humbling I can take after shecrab dropping the ACME' anvil on me for my faux-numero-pas. I don't mind that 'highway 1' theory much, but that means using some verse to move you on the path from GGP to Lincoln Park, whaddupwithat? The rose has been next on my mind...could it be a blob representation of Joan of Arc's statue just to the left of the lamp post top from wherever you need to stand when about to dig?

no it doesnt, The picture path works perfectly to get you to the door The Palace in the Legion of honor. Without any verse whatsoever. Remember it is possible the pole was not there in the 80s therefore verse 7 would be the wrong verse. Technically using just the image we are up to 8 site confirmers. head = parking lot hair part = path next to the casque El Cid barred window Golf balls on tees Shape under the table. - one of four is the probable shape (1- The original Lincoln Highway marker, The Seaman's memorial, The lampposts, or the memorial that was at the peak end of the parking lot which is no longer there,) 34th ave Lincoln's head Regardless of the verse we are in the right spot.

progress- I have made contact with the head groundskeeper. If anyone else is trying to help by getting permission, please let me take care of it as multiple people calling will likely piss them off. (as happened in Florida) I will keep you all posted.

And the fountain is likely the tabletop.  I think you'll need three particular image confirmers to concentrate on the exact spot, which is what my last visual estimate attempted.  How else do you do it without a very specific verse instruction?  Verse seven just says "hey, in that direction"...not too sharp.

you stop when you see the stuff in the image. ie the barred door. and  or the head shaped parking lot. now you look for a verse that fits the treasure ground. its going to be either v7 or v5 if the pole was there its v7 if not its v5 the two spot are only 30 yards apart. whichever verse it is, I will dig in one spot then if no luck go dig in the other. The verse 5 spot is on the golfcourse though... the trouble with the v5 spot is being on the golf course, it gets more grounds keeping and its possible the white rocks have been moved...

I see how v5 mostly works, but I am lost with the first lines...what is two twenty two?

the golden gate is a sea lane the space under the bridge is 222 feet tall and or the ggbridge is sf local landmark 222

Ah, right, I read that not too long ago.  You know my position on v5 as paired with i6, but I can't claim it's rock solid, so its wise to allow a range of considerations. I must right away consider what alternate verse would work for my Rooster Rock theory.  It might surprise me to give a try.  Two weeks ago I was set on v7 with i7... Now I'm looking into devious elves further and I have a moderate theory brewing based on Puck, Shakespeare, and how it might be related to hockey, the founder of the Stanley Cup, relating to a park in Vancouver BC where a memorial to 20's US prez Warren G. Harding, him of Hard word .  Interesting that it has two statues with hands close to meeting and there is a fascinating composition to be found where their heads look similar to the character of image 9, which has for so long been related to a Montreal theory based on the Leg Eater lamp...a perfect match...argh...but the hoof and facial characteristics beg to be Puck of Shakespeare.  Watch put, I'm about to drop a new crazy theory.

just show me how it applies to both Chicago and cleveland  ( and SF and Houston ) if it does I will consider it. but it it is just a one off theory that only applies to one casque that hasnt been found yet ehhh.

Permission to dig granted !- Wont be able to dig  until early in January have to sign up as volunteer  with grounds keepers present. Forms to fill out... quite excited...

Good job.  I haven't permission to dig in Corbett, but I'm clear to poke a screwdriver in the ground.  They said I could dig if GPR worked, but I've read that GPR is less than ideal when looking for a hunk of plastic wrapped ceramic.

maltedfalcon wrote:: its going to be either v7 or v5 Unknown: Palace of the Legion of Honor is the western terminus of the Lincoln Highway, the first road across America Are you ruling out V6...? We're in Lincoln Park after all...

nothing is ruled out til we dig up a casque, but I dont see a connection for v6 mabye I am being dense - I dont see an RLS connection or an Edwin/Edwina either. and there definitly arent any white houses around... what do you see?

(...not a lot. Interesting location though...)

Maltedfalcon, where exactly is that plaque you mentioned about the Spreckles "air smells sweet" connection?  Is it closer to the parking lot or farther back behind the Thinker?

inside to the right of the archway on the wall

maltedfalcon wrote:: I dont see an RLS connection Robert Louis Stephenson Elementary School is on 34th. (Mosaic?)

maltedfalcon wrote:: I dont see an RLS connection Robert Louis Stephenson Elementary School is on 34th. (Mosaic?)

for my theory that doesnt work, it's totally the wrong direction on 34th south of GGpark. The RLS connection would need to be in lincoln park where the verse would start. According to my theory, the verse is totally contained in the treasure ground. Then again, I could be totally wrong.

for my theory that doesnt work, it's totally the wrong direction on 34th south of GGpark. The RLS connection would need to be in lincoln park where the verse would start. According to my theory, the verse is totally contained in the treasure ground. Then again, I could be totally wrong.

(I don't see much mileage in it either; just adding it to the catalogue of useless information... )

( I don't see much mileage in it either; just adding it to the catalogue of useless information... )

I've just been revisiting the GGP overlay. It occurred to me that it was previously presented with the dragon face down, but it would be more logical to present it with the dragon face up to align the GH with Great Highway on the map. This shows up some possible correspondences like the Tao symbol, "the way", on Lincoln Way. There are various other parts of the map you might focus on. Eg, "Between two arms extended, below the bar that binds", could describe the area between the dragon's arms under the barred window. From Roanoke we know that verses can describe things in images. Or you could look at the Tao, now near the top of 34th which has RLS Elementary. Or you could consider the fact that the image corresponds to June/Gemini/II and look at the "II" near the dragon's mouth etc. However, my favourite trail is still from Portsmouth Square to Lafayette Square as set out here: http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... ftrail.pdf It's often been suggested that the picture leads to the city, and the verse leads to the spot, so despite the prominence of GGP, I'm regarding it as an "iconic image" like Milwaukee City Hall. The chinese dragon stuff is equally prominent, and this belongs in Chinatown. Portsmouth Square is nicknamed the "Heart of Chinatown". GGP on the other hand has little to do with the Chinese, unless you go looking in one of the pavilions, but there's nothing in any of the verses that takes you there.

I 've just been revisiting the GGP overlay. It occurred to me that it was previously presented with the dragon face down, but it would be more logical to present it with the dragon face up to align the GH with Great Highway on the map. This shows up some possible correspondences like the Tao symbol, "the way", on Lincoln Way. There are various other parts of the map you might focus on. Eg, "Between two arms extended, below the bar that binds", could describe the area between the dragon's arms under the barred window. From Roanoke we know that verses can describe things in images. Or you could look at the Tao, now near the top of 34th which has RLS Elementary. Or you could consider the fact that the image corresponds to June/Gemini/II and look at the "II" near the dragon's mouth etc. However, my favourite trail is still from Portsmouth Square to Lafayette Square as set out here: http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... ftrail.pdf It's often been suggested that the picture leads to the city, and the verse leads to the spot, so despite the prominence of GGP, I 'm regarding it as an "iconic image" like Milwaukee City Hall. The chinese dragon stuff is equally prominent, and this belongs in Chinatown. Portsmouth Square is nicknamed the "Heart of Chinatown". GGP on the other hand has little to do with the Chinese, unless you go looking in one of the pavilions, but there's nothing in any of the verses that takes you there.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I 've just been revisiting the GGP overlay. It occurred to me that it was previously presented with the dragon face down, but it would be more logical to present it with the dragon face up to align the GH with Great Highway on the map. I really like this overlay.  Having inverted the image, things line up nicely...especially the way the Great Highway lines up with our GH and how 41st Ave runs across her hands (only if her fingers were pointing at a "41").  This park seems like prime real estate for hiding a casque but I suppose it could just be our city confirmer.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I've just been revisiting the GGP overlay. It occurred to me that it was previously presented with the dragon face down, but it would be more logical to present it with the dragon face up to align the GH with Great Highway on the map. I really like this overlay.  Having inverted the image, things line up nicely...especially the way the Great Highway lines up with our GH and how 41st Ave runs across her hands (only if her fingers were pointing at a "41").  This park seems like prime real estate for hiding a casque but I suppose it could just be our city confirmer.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Good call jimerson. you had it that way last april... and all my images of ggpark overlayed had it that way, but the servers they were hosted on are long gone ,so are the images... you need to resize you dragon a bit though...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Good call jimerson. you had it that way last april... and all my images of ggpark overlayed had it that way, but the servers they were hosted on are long gone ,so are the images... you need to resize you dragon a bit though...

Once upon a time I said I thought the weird blue shape in image one looked a bit like the south end of North Lake. Since that time people have gone back through the boards and read that message then gone to google maps or Google earth and looked at North Lake, then sent me emails or messages saying I was totally wrong. In an effort to head off any more of those messages I would like to say here is a comparison which includes the GGPARk tourist map from 1990, the current GGpark tourist map and  The current google map view. This just gives you a bit of an idea how much the area has really changed in 30 some years.

Once upon a time I said I thought the weird blue shape in image one looked a bit like the south end of North Lake. Since that time people have gone back through the boards and read that message then gone to google maps or Google earth and looked at North Lake, then sent me emails or messages saying I was totally wrong. In an effort to head off any more of those messages I would like to say here is a comparison which includes the GGPARk tourist map from 1990, the current GGpark tourist map and  The current google map view. This just gives you a bit of an idea how much the area has really changed in 30 some years.

I am disheartend to report that I went to Lincoln park and dug, but came up empty. We dug 4 separate spots  all with the assumption that the giant step was the 4 or 5 foot drop from the parking lot to the dirt. When we were there we did notice one thing. the Door with the bars, The flagpole location, the apex of the parking lot and Fort Point (an object that mark twain visited and wrote about)  All line up in a straight line. needless to say we dug along that line next to the retaining wall and one giant step away from the wall.  We found nothing but old and new irrigation pipes. (cast iron and PVC) (and some syringes with needles) We also dug to the left and right of that area. and in the direction of Down town SF from the flagpole (basically in line with the seamans memorial against the retaining wall) What I found from talking with the people who work there, was that along that hillside lots of earth (sand actually) has been moved around. in the early 90s the parking area was renovated and new irrigation pipes and utility conduits were installed. most likely its still there but might be deeper than it was originally. The Grounds crew were really friendly and helpful and lent us shovels and helpful advice. If BP were still around I bet we were close enough that he would have said so.

I am disheartend to report that I went to Lincoln park and dug, but came up empty. We dug 4 separate spots  all with the assumption that the giant step was the 4 or 5 foot drop from the parking lot to the dirt. When we were there we did notice one thing. the Door with the bars, The flagpole location, the apex of the parking lot and Fort Point (an object that mark twain visited and wrote about)  All line up in a straight line. needless to say we dug along that line next to the retaining wall and one giant step away from the wall.  We found nothing but old and new irrigation pipes. (cast iron and PVC) (and some syringes with needles) We also dug to the left and right of that area. and in the direction of Down town SF from the flagpole (basically in line with the seamans memorial against the retaining wall) What I found from talking with the people who work there, was that along that hillside lots of earth (sand actually) has been moved around. in the early 90s the parking area was renovated and new irrigation pipes and utility conduits were installed. most likely its still there but might be deeper than it was originally. The Grounds crew were really friendly and helpful and lent us shovels and helpful advice. If BP were still around I bet we were close enough that he would have said so.

I'm sorry that you can't be persuaded to broaden the search. I really don't think this was the spot. But well done for breaking soil. We'll find one yet.

I 'm sorry that you can't be persuaded to broaden the search. I really don't think this was the spot. But well done for breaking soil. We'll find one yet.

I thought you had it nailed.  The soil irrigation work sounds like a serious problem if that's the case.  Any pics you can share or a detail of the line you worked with?

I thought you had it nailed.  The soil irrigation work sounds like a serious problem if that's the case.  Any pics you can share or a detail of the line you worked with?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I'm sorry that you can't be persuaded to broaden the search. I really don't think this was the spot. But well done for breaking soil. We'll find one yet. Seriously thats funny, I will consider any and all possibilities, I always say until we find a casque one theory is as good as another. I honestly cannot say with certainty which verse goes with image 1, so there are lots of possibilities. and I have been really really trying to fit all kinds of other places into the image. In the meantime, I tried and tried everything in GGpark for years. then I tried Portsmouth Square, Coit Tower, Fort Point, Lafayette Park Alta Plaza Park, Alamo Square, The columbarium, Buena Vista Park, Twin Peaks, Grand View. Sutro Heights, Lands end, China Beach, Cliff House, Ft Mason, Chrissy Field. Treasure Island and Yerba Buena.  I have been on the ground in every one of these spots with my book checking for possibilites. I suspect the image has an iconic image and indicates the path to the treasure ground. I know the image will contain images that are viewable from the treasure ground. Lincoln Park has it all: A Lincoln - his face is left of the lady in the rocks B The Barred arched door of the legion of honor - above the lady C The statue of El Cid. - left of the lady D The shape of the parking lot - The lady's head E The shape of the path next to the Parking Lot - the part in her hair F The fountain (table top) F Its on 34th ave - her fingers point to 3 and 4 when mirrored. G Its in the Lat/Lon - in her hair. Also fun to note if  you mirror the park image, then Lincoln's face  is on the North Side of the Park- Lincoln park is north of GGpark, Lincoln Ave is south. However if you have a better possibility I am open to going to look.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I 'm sorry that you can't be persuaded to broaden the search. I really don't think this was the spot. But well done for breaking soil. We'll find one yet. Seriously thats funny, I will consider any and all possibilities, I always say until we find a casque one theory is as good as another. I honestly cannot say with certainty which verse goes with image 1, so there are lots of possibilities. and I have been really really trying to fit all kinds of other places into the image. In the meantime, I tried and tried everything in GGpark for years. then I tried Portsmouth Square, Coit Tower, Fort Point, Lafayette Park Alta Plaza Park, Alamo Square, The columbarium, Buena Vista Park, Twin Peaks, Grand View. Sutro Heights, Lands end, China Beach, Cliff House, Ft Mason, Chrissy Field. Treasure Island and Yerba Buena. I have been on the ground in every one of these spots with my book checking for possibilites. I suspect the image has an iconic image and indicates the path to the treasure ground. I know the image will contain images that are viewable from the treasure ground. Lincoln Park has it all: A Lincoln - his face is left of the lady in the rocks B The Barred arched door of the legion of honor - above the lady C The statue of El Cid. - left of the lady D The shape of the parking lot - The lady's head E The shape of the path next to the Parking Lot - the part in her hair F The fountain (table top) F Its on 34th ave - her fingers point to 3 and 4 when mirrored. G Its in the Lat/Lon - in her hair. Also fun to note if  you mirror the park image, then Lincoln's face  is on the North Side of the Park- Lincoln park is north of GGpark, Lincoln Ave is south. However if you have a better possibility I am open to going to look.

MF - respect, you've obviously done much more than anyone else to further the SF puzzle and others. I 'd never have heard of Portsmouth Square if you hadn't told me about it. You know what I think about this puzzle. I 've posted it repeatedly. http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... ftrail.pdf I didn't know you'd checked out Lafayette. I 'd like to see more info and photos about the place. Peace.

MF - respect, you've obviously done much more than anyone else to further the SF puzzle and others. I'd never have heard of Portsmouth Square if you hadn't told me about it. You know what I think about this puzzle. I've posted it repeatedly. http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... ftrail.pdf I didn't know you'd checked out Lafayette. I'd like to see more info and photos about the place. Peace.

hi maltedfalcon,i didnt realize how much boots and shovel,work you have done, the table with the clock,every time i look,or think about it, it reminds me of a post clock in the img the clock is on the wrong end of table,has there ever been one near the park, or in the pk,or one now a post clock http://www.itsabouttime.ca/dbfiles/images/gf5.jpg

hi maltedfalcon, i didnt realize how much boots and shovel,work you have done, the table with the clock,every time i look,or think about it, it reminds me of a post clock in the img the clock is on the wrong end of table,has there ever been one near the park, or in the pk,or one now a post clock http://www.itsabouttime.ca/dbfiles/images/gf5.jpg

I posted something along these lines already, but I hadn't considered the strong triangle approach. I 'm guessing he used the Betsy Ross pole as the 90 degree portion of a right triangle which is usually denoted by a small square, the Flag in this case.  He then went over the rail to a spot that lines up the top of a lamp post with the center of fountain.  The archway completes the triangle and has perspective with the fountain as the gate and table in the image just as you see them with respect to the woman.  The yellow dots are lamp posts.  The green box is the area where the casque might be found. Falc, did you dig in that area?

I posted something along these lines already, but I hadn't considered the strong triangle approach.  I'm guessing he used the Betsy Ross pole as the 90 degree portion of a right triangle which is usually denoted by a small square, the Flag in this case.  He then went over the rail to a spot that lines up the top of a lamp post with the center of fountain.  The archway completes the triangle and has perspective with the fountain as the gate and table in the image just as you see them with respect to the woman.  The yellow dots are lamp posts.  The green box is the area where the casque might be found. Falc, did you dig in that area?

I was thinking more in the area around the large tree almost directly right of your square....just over the railing.

I was thinking more in the area around the large tree almost directly right of your square....just over the railing.

erexere wrote:: Image 1 seems to give us a lamp post and surely the archway entrance to the Legion of Honor. The Fountain too. How exactly does the verse work for this spot? If you can decide what verse it is?  😛 Most of these image matches are highly generic. I mean, which of these arches is a better match, the Legion of Honour, or the "white house"...? As for the fountain/tabletop comparison, it's basically a circle. Even if you can find image matches, it means nothing without a verse. We know from puzzles like New Orleans that references could be anywhere in the city. The verse is the key. It's not a bolt-on.

Verse 7. I  don't see a circle.  I see an oval. Take a circular object like a dinner plate and hold it in front of you like you are driving and holding a steering wheel at 9 and 3 o'clock, then tilt it til you see it in the same perspective as the table top seen in the image.  How many degrees is that?  That will be the key to finding your distance above or below the plane.  How wide do you think the table is, 1 ft. diameter? Modifying my original idea to fit perspective on the table being about the size of a dinner plate held by a person standing a couple meters away and estimating the diameter of the fountain at about 22 meters I find an arc can be drawn that puts us about 55 meters from the fountain.  Perhaps the green diamond just a bit farther away from the green box is about the right spot. Remember the lamp top matches closely the top of the watch? Here I noticed from street view that the top of the lamp post (yellow circle) nearly lines up just above the railing with the stanchions(or is it called a balustrade?).  Perhaps the Betsy Ross pole (Giant Pole).  At this distance the size of the fountain would fit an image perspective matching the size of the table top.  The only trick here is you can't see the fountain from down below the plane, but you can fit the perspective and find the distance by going up top on the paved path on the other side of the fountain and count your steps, then you just see how many steps that is from the basic arc that follows the railing, then move along the arc, traversing the edge of Hole 15 (Near Ace is High - 15 is next to 14) and you find a spot where the arch of the Legion of Honor is just above and to the left of the head of a persons standing where the casque is buried.

MaltedFalcon, or anyone with a camera, would you please take a picture from about 2 meters away of a person standing in the archway of the Legion of Honor with just enough angle that the fountain is to the left of the person.  If I'm visualizing this correctly, it will match the image of the woman and table top.  This is a very easy thing to test. I'm basically looking for the opposite version of this image only fountain and archway are reversed...so far i've been unable to find a good fountain picture from the archway perspective.

If, after following this logical path through the likeliest verse with plausible visual confirmers, you end up here... ...the only remaining question is, where is that place between two arms extended, below the bar that binds...? I suppose the simplest answer would be between two tennis players, two [with] arms extended, below the bar surrounding the court. Here's a close-up... I'd check out the lie of the land by the edge of the court, in the middle, on the side of the house. Maybe you could even see one of those arched windows from there. Unless you decided the Legion of Honour arch was a better fit after all. I'll give it a rest now.  😉

Unknown: After reviewing a copy of Etiquette Faux Pas and Other Misconceptions About Afternoon Tea by Ellen Easton, sources in the British Royal Household confirm the information as correct with the comments: "We would not make any amendments to the text" and "What a good article." - September, 2004 Due to the new popularity of Afternoon Tea many people have jumped on the bandwagon, including hotels, caterers, party planners and protocol & etiquette “experts”.  While their enthusiasm is well intended, unfortunately a great deal of misinformation is being perpetuated by these “experts”. While etiquette and customs do evolve over time, some issues are not negotiable. Just because some customs are practiced does not validate the behavior. Of course the tea police will not be lurking behind your kettles, but if one is going to embrace such a lovely and genteel genre I would like to set the record straight. As a descendant of one of Europe's old line aristocratic families, I feel privileged to be able to share the protocols that have been passed down from century to century with you. 1. Pinkies Up! Originally, all porcelain teacups were made in China, starting around 620 A.D. These small cups had no handles. In order for one not to spill the hot liquid onto oneself, the proper way to hold the vessel was to place ones thumb at the six o'clock position and ones index and middle fingers at the twelve o'clock position, while gently raising ones pinkie up for balance. ... I keep wondering about the clock and the two hands, big hand (thumb) at 6 o'clock and little hand (pinky) at 12 o'clock and still I find this ettiquette reference the best as it also incorporates other elements, tea in Chinese culture and Tee time in Golf culture (white orbs as plausible golf ball reference).

WhiteRabbit wrote:: If, after following this logical path through the likeliest verse with plausible visual confirmers, you end up here... WR, My trouble with this theory is it is based on the verse alone, not the image, You are using the RLS quote to start at Portsmouth square, Then jumping to the picture path method to go from Portsmouth square to Lafayette Park. Then jumping back into the verse. If this does work then you have to explain away the GGpark in the image.  In the two found casques the Windmill and the bowman, and the Terminal Tower and the triangle, All were located along the logical route to the treasure ground.  GGpark is not anywhere near the route from Portsmith square to Lafayette. Then when you get there There is nothing in the image that are site confirmers The arched windows on the white building are too flat along the top and are not barred.  What else in the image is matched in the park?

cw0909 wrote:: has there ever been one near the park, or in the pk,or one now a post clock I thought that it loooked like that too! but no I have not found one in Lincoln park or GGpark and as far as I know there has never been a post clock in those places, however there is a large floral clock at the Conservatory of flowers in ggpark. The nearest post clock is on market street near powell http://www.google.com/imgres?q=post+clo ... 29,r:3,s:0

erexere wrote:: Verse 7. I  don't see a circle.  I see an oval. I don't get quite why you are choosing to use this method, while a neat idea, nothing like that was used in Chicago or Cleveland Beyond site confirmers The image wasnt used for digging up the treasure the verse was. So how does the verse apply to this? and which verse are you applying?

erexere wrote:: Verse 7. In this image the flagpole is too far to the left, It would have been about where the right side of the yellow circle crosses the railing.

fox wrote:: I was thinking more in the area around the large tree almost directly right of your square....just over the railing. Yes we dug there and and then to the area below that near/in front of the yellow dot.

maltedfalcon wrote:: WR, My trouble with this theory is it is based on the verse alone, not the image My problem with your theory is the opposite!

maltedfalcon wrote:: I don't get quite why you are choosing to use this method, while a neat idea, nothing like that was used in Chicago or Cleveland Beyond site confirmers The image wasnt used for digging up the treasure the verse was. So how does the verse apply to this? and which verse are you applying? Correct.  You understand exactly where I am deviating.  I am using verse 7.  I am operating on an adaptive theory based on the methods being variable as opposed to empirically static as you have defined your approach.  I don't disagree with many of your points, but there are gaps and problems with your approach that Ive resolved with a different approach.

erexere wrote:: I don't disagree with many of your points, but there are gaps and problems with your approach that Ive resolved with a different approach. This is where you keep losing me erexere.  These aren't highly scientific theorems that can be worked out several ways....they are simply a puzzle that when solved...is solved.  My challenge for you is to take either the Chicago find or the Cleveland find and work them out a completely different way and come up with the same dig site. I'm just confused...thats all  :-\

The puzzles arent uniformly consistent.  Cleveland presented actual numbers in print.  The other images have skewed numbers if any at all for lat/long.  Nothing to be confused about.  Some are easy and some are hard.  Paintings were rendered from photographs and spruced up with artististic license.  Recognizing the match worthy details is a more challenging in some cases than others and entirely subjective. My approach with using a circle or a triangle isnt complicated or the least bit unreasonable if the situaton calls for it.  Continued objection to my methods by reference to how other images were solved is fine, but it sould be understood that there isnt any proof BP didnt vary his methods.

erexere wrote:: but it sould be understood that there isnt any proof BP didnt vary his methods. True- yet it was by assuming he used a consistent method, that I was able to solve Image 1 to Lincoln Park. The other thing that your solution requires is a aerial photograph or map. there would be no other way to draw your triangles and paths. however  specifically we have been told , All you need is the image and a verse. Everything you need to solve the puzzle is there.

maltedfalcon wrote:: The other thing that your solution requires is a aerial photograph or map. there would be no other way to draw your triangles and paths. however  specifically we have been told , All you need is the image and a verse. Everything you need to solve the puzzle is there. No, I don't base any of my solution on aerial work.  I do take advantage of it to convey my understanding of the puzzle.  My visualizations stem from looking for a particular perspective once the image gets us to the spot where the verse says "the air smells sweet".  My virtual perspective shows me the fountain circle at a distance which matches the oval shape of the table top in the image.  I then count paces till I reach the fountain.  Then I walk around to it's opposite side and count paces to the railing as I pass the Betsy Ross pole and the little pyramid shaped step monument stone (is that still there or was that also removed?).  I then climb over or walk to the other side of the railing and search for a visual on where the top of a lamp post just peeks over the rail above a balustrade and turn my head to view the sweet arch once again to check my perspective.  Then I double check my position by counting off the remaining paces between myself and the wall.

erexere wrote:: the little pyramid shaped step monument stone (is that still there or was that also removed?). good catch, I thought I was the only one to notice that. no it is long gone, however it was topped by a monument that looked lamp shaped. unfortunately I only have a very long distance photo of this object, nothing conclusive. I believe but cannot in any way prove. This is the silhouette under the table (at least I am hoping that)

I figured out that my idea with using triangles to measure distance first applied to the satellite aerial and then compared to an angles approach in the image is 99.6 percent.  For the aerial I used the points measure feature in wikimapia and on the paper I used a metric ruler. I skipped geometry in school and so I had no idea that a circles and triangles are almost interchangeable in some applications.

Malt -- here is another picture of the monument in question: http://www.lincolnhighwayassoc.org/ca/t ... iews.shtml

Here's the deal.  The yellow writing is the angle which is the same in both constructions. I'm beginning to consider the "Giant Step" is really an instruction to "Make a Triangle".  I recommend using a compass to set your angles and count your paces.  Stand at the center of the sweet arch and set your compass arrow to the spot where the Flag pole use to be and then adjust about 21 degrees and follow that heading about 100 paces (515 feet). Here's an idea for the Object of Twain's attention, Joan of Arc statue is first across and then we go North in Jewel's direction. Joan of Arc circled in red.  Lamp post circled in orange.

the right half of the "pot" in the middle of GGP on this image... what kind of bird would you say that is with the long finger feathers on its wing? a hawk? an eagle? and where are the golf balls on the tee you all are talking about being a site confirmer?

I don't see a birdie... I'm saying the many moons are like golf balls.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: the right half of the "pot" in the middle of GGP on this image... what kind of bird would you say that is with the long finger feathers on its wing? a hawk? an eagle? where exactly do you mean what pot?

erexere wrote:: The puzzles arent uniformly consistent.  Cleveland presented actual numbers in print.  The other images have skewed numbers if any at all for lat/long.  Nothing to be confused about.  Some are easy and some are hard.  Paintings were rendered from photographs and spruced up with artististic license.  Recognizing the match worthy details is a more challenging in some cases than others and entirely subjective. Fair enough.  I never said the puzzles were all done the exact same way.  I believe very similar but not exactly like each other.  That being said....the challenge still stands.  Use a completely different method and get to the correct dig site for either Chicago or Cleveland.  Unless BP was a genius, I do not see how MF can work his theory and get to the exact dig site while you work your completely different theory and get to the SAME EXACT site.  For that to happen, BP would have had to have multiple layers of various puzzles for each IV pairing so that if one got confused or stuck with one method....well low and behold, there are several other methods to try.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: I see that is just a classic style dragons wing.  For my own pet theory, Id like to think the "pot" fits with a tea theme, but that's not really useful information as I see the dragon as the basic Chinese element and something iconic for BP as a writer of dragon stories.  The whole grid pattern has me thinking "graph paper", which is why the triangles idea has been my focus lately.

fox wrote:: Fair enough.  I never said the puzzles were all done the exact same way.  I believe very similar but not exactly like each other.  That being said....the challenge still stands.  Use a completely different method and get to the correct dig site for either Chicago or Cleveland.  Unless BP was a genius, I do not see how MF can work his theory and get to the exact dig site while you work your completely different theory and get to the SAME EXACT site.  For that to happen, BP would have had to have multiple layers of various puzzles for each IV pairing so that if one got confused or stuck with one method....well low and behold, there are several other methods to try. Oh, I didn't catch your drift the first time, this is a very interesting point you're making.  I have worked a path to the same site very differently than MF but only after stumbling exhaustively over so many other floppy ideas and the gamut of verse choices: Fairy Mountain in Glenwood Springs, Colorado , Japanese Internment camps, Tanforan, Grand View Park, Twin Peaks, Russian Hill, Union Square, the Exploratorium and Dolores Park.  All things "Stone wall" have put me on several outlandish ideas.  BP is a subtle artistic genius who has found ways to express deep connections through simple and efficient means....He gives me a stone wall and I show up with a ladder that is much too short. I honestly can't see a clearly different path to the Cleveland solve.  I'm in agreement with most of the published solve.  I differ in the opinion about Euclid as an abstraction to the triangle in a sphere.  Not being natively familiar with that local area, I can only see the solution in terms of having a little luck catching hold of the trail to the gardens, but once there in the Greek section I agree that the verse is explicitly detailed on how to locate the casque once you reach the columns. Chicago, hmm...that one is terribly non-linear although MF explains it very succinctly with just a couple turns once you locate the start of the path at the Water Tower.  All things considered it looks somewhat more challenging than Cleveland, but simple and straight forward enough in retrospect.  I don't imagine I would've been able to solve it even if I was raised in Chicago.  When I first got into this hunt, a short time ago really, I was really having trouble understanding the Congress reference.  It doesn't take much to get tripped up in these verses.  Cleveland being the exception, although 'beneath two countries' had my head spinning till I saw the spoilers. Cleveland was also different in the regard that JJP was more or less the inspiration for that location and possibly some of the loose connections to build a clear path through illustration alone.  He does much of the same with image 5 and uses the hat like a maze that advertises a literal walk through a city. Iconic elements in all the images guide us to a generally correct idea.  Montreal, Roanoke, New Orleans, Michigan, and Charleston are strongly suggested by iconic rendering.  Boston looks solid more from a verse rendering, but the image confirmers are definite for me.  NYC, St.Louis, and Florida look close, but seem iffy for not having more exact iconic visuals.  There's no denying Ponce, but the Florida shape could be a little more crisp. Up to this point, I've skimmed and delved through a lot of history and architecture.  My literary background isn't so strong, and my chemistry background keeps surfacing on occasion as if I expect everything might be distilled or synthesized.  Now I can't hep but wonder why I come across so many nook and cranny ideas that want to fill the gaps, like things do do with Presidents, Generals, Chess, Birds, Beacons, Squares, Bells, Towers, Government, Women, and Sculptures.  I think of these items as little riddles to entertain us obsessive types in an all consuming way. Sorry Fox, I'm off point, I just can't see how we can completely follow an image path for all the casques.  I see that method as exhausted with the completion of the easier Cleveland and Chicago solutions.

Unknown: Sorry Fox, I'm off point, I just can't see how we can completely follow an image path for all the casques.  I see that method as exhausted with the completion of the easier Cleveland and Chicago solutions. I know you don't like hearing this from me, because I've said it in many ways now many times and it's always irritated you. However, the "image path" you speak of is exactly what we are supposed to do. There is an icon or two in every single painting--and they are NOT "rebused" or changed--it is the images that provide us with the exact places and objects. It is the verses tht are disguised, cryptic, hidden, full of double meanings. The images are essential to finding the location because their components cannot be changed or misinterpreted! How would you know that Image 10 represents MIlwaukee without the Mill stone the Walk ing stick and the Key and the outline of city hall? Nothing in that image represents Germany OR Milwaukee in such a clear, unambiguous way. In Image 11, the bird's claw perfectly matches the outline of the coastline in Boston. Florida's shape in Image 6 may not be as "clear or crisp" as you would like, but then neither was Ohio in Image 4. And the figure of Ponce is EXACT--right down to the striped pantaloons. And no one can deny the outline of Charleston Harbor in Image 2 or the shape of Fort Sumter. That method cannot be "exhausted" as you have stated. It is the very essence of this puzzle.

Shecrab, I'm perfectly content respecting what you have to share.  I'm actually tired of folks being stingy with their opinions. My problem but also my inspiration with the Ponce is that it doesn't match exactly.  The difference being the St. Augustine Ponce statue is STANDING and the image 6 Ponce is MOUNTED on a horse.  I completely agree that BP designed the puzzle to fit St. Augustine, but I see it as red herring.  My Corbett theory rests on discovering the popular Native American legend concerning a MOUNTAIN.  Image 12 does something like this as well, but I don't see that method being used in the other images, hence my variable adaptive approach. Image 1 certainly has options for which verse might apply.  I'm biased to exclude verse 5 because I have found it applies to image 6.  Verse 7 seems more locked in my mind after realizing a stone wall fits the Thinker statue's door.

Here is the golf holes layout, http://www.lincolnparkgc.com/Lincoln_Pa ... ecard.html Near ace is high, interpreted as 14 allows us to see the options on the golf course quickly narrow down to the 15th hole area, since the 13th and the 14th itself are much farther east in the course.  The brush covered and wooded area between the 15th hole and El Camino Del Mar is prime.

erexere wrote:: I don't see a birdie... Oh I see it, it kind of looks like the us post office eagle, doesnt it?

erexere wrote:: I don't see a birdie... Oh I see it, it kind of looks like the us post office eagle, doesnt it?

maltedfalcon wrote:: Oh I see it, it kind of looks like the us post office eagle, doesnt it? I agree it is eagle-like.  Isnt An Eagle a type of golfing term?

maltedfalcon wrote:: Oh I see it, it kind of looks like the us post office eagle, doesnt it? I agree it is eagle-like.  Isnt An Eagle a type of golfing term?

This is all rough, but I wanted to throw an idea out there. I have no idea about the giant pole and step after following what I mention below: Land's End Press was the first publisher of Twain's "1601..." (other than anonymous or twain himself) pick up where you all left off at the stone walls door ...and justice for all to see (go to flagpole) Sounds from the sky (??) Near ace is high (go to hole 14) Running north (go due north), but first across (el camino del mar) In jewel's direction (in site's direction) Is an object Of Twain's attention (land's end... eagle's point) the strand of hair matches the path b/w camino del mar and land's end trl unfortunately, I think there are many signs that look like this (with different locations inscribed - sutro, etc.), however... interestingly, the hands could be roughly making an L and a D... the first and last letters of "lands end," specific to this sign. again, this is rough, but I thought I 'd throw it in the mix (and i really do think the resemblance of the sleeves and the national park emblem quite good).

This is all rough, but I wanted to throw an idea out there. I have no idea about the giant pole and step after following what I mention below: Land's End Press was the first publisher of Twain's "1601..." (other than anonymous or twain himself) pick up where you all left off at the stone walls door ...and justice for all to see (go to flagpole) Sounds from the sky (??) Near ace is high (go to hole 14) Running north (go due north), but first across (el camino del mar) In jewel's direction (in site's direction) Is an object Of Twain's attention (land's end... eagle's point) the strand of hair matches the path b/w camino del mar and land's end trl unfortunately, I think there are many signs that look like this (with different locations inscribed - sutro, etc.), however... interestingly, the hands could be roughly making an L and a D... the first and last letters of "lands end," specific to this sign. again, this is rough, but I thought I'd throw it in the mix (and i really do think the resemblance of the sleeves and the national park emblem quite good).

421, looks like good offerings to me.  I'm really happy with the ettiquette approach.  In golf, when a ball is in flight towards anyone who might be in the path, the right thing to do is make a sound by raising your voice to shout "Fore!" I'm still working out my approach with the triangulation idea.  Will post results soon.

421, looks like good offerings to me. I 'm really happy with the ettiquette approach.  In golf, when a ball is in flight towards anyone who might be in the path, the right thing to do is make a sound by raising your voice to shout "Fore!" I 'm still working out my approach with the triangulation idea.  Will post results soon.

Thanks, buddy. Look forward to it.

erexere wrote:: I agree it is eagle-like.  Isnt An Eagle a type of golfing term? erexere wrote:: BP is a subtle artistic genius who has found ways to express deep connections through simple and efficient means....He gives me a stone wall and I show up with a ladder that is much too short. My literary background isn't so strong, and my chemistry background keeps surfacing on occasion as if I expect everything might be distilled or synthesized. Yes, an eagle is 2 under par on a hole. :app) You do have a way with words my friend....are you a teacher of some sort? At least you have a ladder  😀  This is me =====>

erexere wrote:: I agree it is eagle-like.  Isnt An Eagle a type of golfing term? erexere wrote:: BP is a subtle artistic genius who has found ways to express deep connections through simple and efficient means....He gives me a stone wall and I show up with a ladder that is much too short. My literary background isn't so strong, and my chemistry background keeps surfacing on occasion as if I expect everything might be distilled or synthesized. Yes, an eagle is 2 under par on a hole. :app) You do have a way with words my friend....are you a teacher of some sort? At least you have a ladder  😀  This is me =====>

Have people been looking out for the wall that runs across this pic...?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Have people been looking out for the wall that runs across this pic...? nope totally missed that great catch

maltedfalcon wrote:: nope totally missed that great catch Yeah, that looks like a great catch.  Are you thinking railing and fountain?

That is a great catch indeed. I 'm sure this type of bordering could be found almost anywhere though.  Here it is running along the building atop the columns...there is a wall section under the bordering at the arched entry. hmmmmmmm, do you see something in this pic which also ties in with the Cleveland find (think of Sir Egg's account of his find)?  It also ties in quite nicely with accounts I have read about one of our possible sites at the Elizabethan Gardens. I 'm sure it's just a coincidence though since it doesnt really fit with the Chicago find.

That is a great catch indeed. I'm sure this type of bordering could be found almost anywhere though.  Here it is running along the building atop the columns...there is a wall section under the bordering at the arched entry. hmmmmmmm, do you see something in this pic which also ties in with the Cleveland find (think of Sir Egg's account of his find)?  It also ties in quite nicely with accounts I have read about one of our possible sites at the Elizabethan Gardens.  I'm sure it's just a coincidence though since it doesnt really fit with the Chicago find.

or maybe........ It doesnt seem to have quite the same border but it does flare out like it does in whiterabbit's blow up of the wall.  The more I look at it, the more it looks like the base/pedestal of a statue of some sort.

or maybe........ It doesnt seem to have quite the same border but it does flare out like it does in whiterabbit's blow up of the wall.  The more I look at it, the more it looks like the base/pedestal of a statue of some sort.

Unknown: The Geometric Elements. The leverage on these problems comes from the principle of triangular proportionality, the geometry at the heart of all perspective and optical images: Given two triangles of unequal size, if the three interior angles of one triangle are equal to the three interior angles of the other, then the length of all three sides of the smaller triangle will be in a constant proportion to the length of the corresponding sides of the larger triangle. The proof appears in Euclid's Elements, Book 6, Proposition 2; and the the optical implications were developed in Euclid's Optics, written c.300 CE. Euclid was mentioned in the Cleveland solutlion and now I find his triangle proofs will come in handy with San Francisco.

Unknown: The Geometric Elements. The leverage on these problems comes from the principle of triangular proportionality, the geometry at the heart of all perspective and optical images: Given two triangles of unequal size, if the three interior angles of one triangle are equal to the three interior angles of the other, then the length of all three sides of the smaller triangle will be in a constant proportion to the length of the corresponding sides of the larger triangle. The proof appears in Euclid's Elements, Book 6, Proposition 2; and the the optical implications were developed in Euclid's Optics, written c.300 CE. Euclid was mentioned in the Cleveland solutlion and now I find his triangle proofs will come in handy with San Francisco.

egads, that sure sounds a lot like my son's homework I just finished helping him with.

egads, that sure sounds a lot like my son's homework I just finished helping him with.

Considering the prickly nature of this image, perhaps these shapes are cacti. (Needles? Acupuncture?)

Considering the prickly nature of this image, perhaps these shapes are cacti. (Needles? Acupuncture?)

The Edwin plaque at 440 Bush St is next to the Academy of Art (logo) originally at 215 Kearney (sign)...

The Edwin plaque at 440 Bush St is next to the Academy of Art (logo) originally at 215 Kearney (sign)...

maltedfalcon wrote:: My trouble with this theory is it is based on the verse alone, not the image Unknown: You are using the RLS quote to start at Portsmouth square, then jumping to the picture path method to go from Portsmouth square to Lafayette Park. Then jumping back into the verse. Unknown: If this does work then you have to explain away the GGpark in the image. Unknown: In the two found casques the Windmill and the bowman, and the Terminal Tower and the triangle, All were located along the logical route to the treasure ground.  GGpark is not anywhere near the route from Portsmith square to Lafayette. Unknown: Then when you get there There is nothing in the image that are site confirmers There's an appropriate dragon / barred window mural at the start of the trail as you turn onto Clay from Portsmouth Square. (Might be too recent though.) One of the things I like about Lafayette is the fact it was used as an evacuation centre during the 1906 fire. Ties in nicely with the "fire-breathing dragon" the Fair Folk brought with them from Cathay. "And in the 1906 earthquake, Lafayette Square became one of the tent campsites for refugees - with awesome views of the fire and destruction of the city below." http://www.parkscan.org/parks?parkId=24 It's based primarily on the verse after using the image for SF. I thought that was fairly standard. No, it's all based on the verse. It's the iconic image for San Francisco, like the Statue of Liberty is the iconic image for New York, etc. And it's not that far away. I don't believe that every image has to be geographically tied to the trail. I don't think the Statue of Liberty or Milwaukee City Hall are. They're just area clues IMHO. I've found a couple of possibles, but it's difficult to get more without someone actually visiting the place. I think there's enough evidence to make that worthwhile. It's scheduled for refurbishment this year, and after that it'll be even harder to look. Here's an updated summary for this trail. San Francisco theory - PDF

The historic  lamp posts downtown had me systematically running down all the parks and places where trolleys might lead.  I only landed on Lincoln Park after Malted answered the question to where other places posts might be found.  Slowly as I worked through my bag of odd seeming ideas I really liked most the Emily Post idea with etiquette being an interconnecting theme with Tea time and Tee time.  My basic sense is the many "moons" idea and the "smells sweet" with Gh gave us strong evidence to go to the Ghiradelli and Obsrvatory area, which I then decided was a path start and chosen to double as a way of connecting to the end point, becoming the sugar entrance to the PotLoH and then golf balls in Lincoln Park Golf Course where the matter of etiquette applies to a Post.  I don't just propose there is a geometric method in this image.  I've found the use of perspective for the rendering of this image does more than come from some random Polaroids in the area.  There is an exact mathematical approach to processing the respective angles and dimensions of objects in order to find the position where BP stood.  This will reveal the image's most significant picture, containing the barred window/door, the fountain, the lamp post, and a borrowed person.  Known measurements would be helpful to me.  I'd like to know how many paces it takes to walk around the fountain and how wide the is the sweet entryway to The PotLoH.  I'm absolutely NOT saying BP intended us to use math.  It can be used in a virtual test to outline a rough idea of where to dig.  I'm sure you can stand on a specific spot and with the help of another person as a stand in for the robed woman you will see a very good match to the general outline of of the image.  The only drawback is seeing through hill and foliage.

Well I will be happy to measure anything you want when I go back in Feb. And I do believe there is geometry involved in the casque placement. but I think its a straight line. straight line from the arch through the flagpole to Fort Point.  (Mark Twain, The San Francisco Daily Morning Call, July 14, 1864, "INSPECTION OF THE FORTIFICATIONS"). The giant step is the step down from the parking lot. After speaking with the groundskeeper, He was pretty sure we didn't dig deep enough, So I plan to go back and dig a very big hole right there.

Is it possible to sit on the Joan of Arc horse to take a photo of the fountain?  I'm interested in that angle as it might be the antipode of an imaginary sphere.  I think the casque might fit a dark side of the moon idea if we are looking at a spot below the giant step where we don't have eyes on the fountain or Joan of arc.  The problem is finding the center of this sphere.  I think you can get around all kinds of funky math by just counting steps to the middle of the Sweet Arch and then turning 90 degrees and counting steps to this center point,  Pass the same number of steps beyond and traverse 90 degrees to the hillside below to get to casque.

Digging deeper: the casques were buried no more than 3 feet deep, according to the book. In 30 years, this may have sunk a bit, but it's unlikely it sunk that much unless the area was flooded or the ground was very porous and took on a lot of water. In which case, there might not be a casque to dig UP.

shecrab wrote:: Digging deeper: the casques were buried no more than 3 feet deep, according to the book. In 30 years, this may have sunk a bit, but it's unlikely it sunk that much unless the area was flooded or the ground was very porous and took on a lot of water. In which case, there might not be a casque to dig UP. or as in the case of the area I am looking in. "Hey you know they have dumped dirt here in the past..." When they put in the irrigation lines, its easier to lay the line and then bury it then just dig a trench first...

malt, if you strike oil, I want a cut.

shecrab wrote:: Digging deeper: the casques were buried no more than 3 feet deep, according to the book. In 30 years, this may have sunk a bit, but it's unlikely it sunk that much unless the area was flooded or the ground was very porous and took on a lot of water. In which case, there might not be a casque to dig UP. Yeah.  Because of this, I keep thinking it'd be great to get JJP to give us some strong hints, and let us resolve some of these once and for all.  I know he wants to keep the hunt alive out of respect for BP but there really just may not be anything to dig up anymore.

Well, how would he know? He wasn't informed as to the burial sites, only given pictures. It's unlikely he'd know where any of them were except for Cleveland.

I for one, want absolutely no hints. If When we find one having hints would cheapen it.

The casques are getting a lot harder to find, is all.  At the current rate, it'll be the year 2040 or so before we find another casque or two.

I'm with malt -- I can wait to 2040 if it means finding a casque through teamwork, inspiration, and logic. Don't want to get handed the answer.

The artist was told the city for image 10. Otherwise he would not have created the "mill-walk-key" rebus.

To be honest, I expect JJP knew more about this puzzle than he's generally given credit for, but it's impossible to know. BP could have given him any amount of stuff to include without explaining it to him in his "dossiers with obscure photos and notes", including this rebus.

Now, although I was certain this casque was somewhere in Lafayette (see here ), as always, it's been tricky to narrow it down to a couple of square feet. But I've chosen my favourite spot. I felt this dragon had something to do with it, nosing into the border between courts I and II... Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Tennis court (between two players with arms extended). Below the bar that binds This could be any or all of several things...south of Alcatraz, a point below the barred window in Image 1 (eg the "X"), below the railing of the tennis court...but I was also drawn to the cablecar lines beside the road. Considering the wall in the image, I looked here... This is between the two courts I and II, beside the wall. From here you get a clear view of the courts and palms... And the post has a possible contender for a bar that binds... And a sign which accounts for the 68s in the image. (There are three; clock and rose, sets of boxes indicated by the fingers, and this one in the dragon's coils.) Beside the long palm's shadow (Double reference to the courts - longue paume - and palms at Lafayette, see above.) For me, this is it. I haven't seen a credible verse explanation for anywhere else. Those domed stripey rocks and all the moons are a hint for the Chabot Observatory which started here. There's an avalanche of clues for this place. All it takes to pick up the SF casque is a ten-minute dig at this spot. Bet you $50 it's there!  ;D Friends of Lafayette Park, cleanup and planting first Saturday of every month. What's not to like? http://www.friendsoflafayettepark.com/m ... ening.html

Maltedfalcon, I thought I posted this already, maybe I was waiting for an answer to a question about taking a photo from the Joan of Arc statue.  It's not important anymore, I've given up on trying the geek-math approach.  You're right on top of that casque, so the rest is up to you.  I would only suggest that you be willing to look at the possibility that there is a strong visual scale match to a few elements in the picture: fountain, arch, and person standing on casque.  The main problem with recreating the image is the negative plane adjustment.  You have to "see" the fountain without having line of sight, which means taking a walk and measuring your pace from the opposite side where you can see it.  It might seem extremely hard at first when you consider there is a hill in the way, but it's doable, you'll just have to do it a couple times to check your measurements.  BP probably walked it twice from both directions and found the same spot with no problem.  I bet he was a boyscout. Good luck.

animal painter wrote:: The artist was told the city for image 10. Otherwise he would not have created the "mill-walk-key" rebus. Not necessarily. He might have recognized City Hall.

I opened the paper this morning to see an article about the restoration of a copy of the Mona Lisa. She reminds me of this image. It's an Italian restaurant not far from Portsmouth Square (353 Columbus Ave), though that may be too recent...

Is that the painting thats most famous for its perfect balance or something?

her mysterious smile

Can someone measure the circumfrence of the pool in the parking lot of the Palace of the Legion of Honor? I'm doing a simulation with soccer practice cones to verify a specific use of perspective angle to deterimine a distance needed to find the casque at that location.

Perhaps my exact scale model of the site out of modeling clay and a desk lamp as the sun is a bit much. I still can't find the tiny casque I buried.

Fox -- you probably dug down only 2mm. Try 3.5mm.

lol.....I'm having trouble finding a tiny shovel that big FB.

Modeling clay is really spendy.  Play-doh is the next best thing.

erexere wrote:: Can someone measure the circumfrence of the pool in the parking lot of the Palace of the Legion of Honor? I'm doing a simulation with soccer practice cones to verify a specific use of perspective angle to deterimine a distance needed to find the casque at that location. Diameter waters edge to waters edge 78 feet outer rim to outer rim 90 feet just over 887 feet in circumference.

Thanks maltedfalcon! I just got back from the parking lot at Best Buy.  I used cones, measured out the perspective using those dimensions and I think I'm on the right track.  I'm trying to find a very good estimate to start with, but if there is more exacting way to find the spot through fitting the perspective and counting off paces, I hope it will help someone find this. Working on the data and some picture tests currently, will publish results soon.  If I'm right in the way this method is applied, I can reverse engineer the location of my car in the parking lot and it will be in the same place as the table top in the image and my wheel base should be the same length as the table's width.  This doesn't prove this method was used by Byron, but if it was, my experiment determines an exact spot for a dig attempt based on matching the position and width of fountain pool relative to the Palace arch from where one would stand to and take a picture.  I'm not sure how Byron would've gone about constructing this particular casque puzzle in this way, as it seems a bit complicated and sneaky.

So in general terms where is ou theory leading you?

Well, I concluded that my idea with dependency on the size of the fountain being maintained as a distance perspective is NOT the way to go.  If I do so, then I end up pretty far off on the other side of the road below.  I have several items I wish to work into the perspective, and it's impossible to put them all into view, which leads me to conclude there's some items in one perspective and then a shift to a different set of items for another perspective.  Both perspectives work together some how. Here's an attempt to sort the items:  The watch = lamp post, and the tabletop = 90 ft diameter fountain pool.  I found a simple angle of view that indicates it's possible to put the lamp post right in line with the spout center and have the pool's depth and width look very similarly proportioned to the tabletop. I think this is an alignment motif with a direction in mind as a line that points us beyond the railing to the ledge below.  (I'll call that the pool vector). Next, there's some indication of proportionality between the pool's width and the center of the image and a right triangle that might indicate the angle between the pool vector and the arch vector.  One thing I did was cut and paste multiple copies of the tabletop to see how many spans would fit along each edge of the triangle.  It's one 90ft diameter width between the pool vector and the arch vector.  Most of my other lines can be ignored, I was just working some alternate ideas.  The white circles are completely arbitrary, look closer and you'll see the tabletops rotated 90 degrees and stacked five high. Finally, see how the arch vector (starts at right side of the arch) passes a point just 90ft from the center of the fountain (purple circle), and continues to a point past the ledge where it intersects the pool vector (yellow circle).  The red circle is the lamp post. Ignore my distance measures, they are only used to approximate my overall approach.  You'll have more success just standing there at the site and marking specific points.  Use a balloon or a ribbon to tie at the railing when you locate the pool vector with lamp post and fountain spout, then use whatever means makes sense to you to find it's intersection with the arch vector.  I'm guessing you can see the arch even while standing below by the path? Was this an approach you already tried?

no the path is way below the level where you can see the arch at the spot you have indicated its about 20 feet below the parkinglot level

Ok.  Perhaps we're not meant to have a view of the arch at the final spot.  I'm very enthusiastic about the line from the pool vector.  I'm not sold on the arch vector as much.  Perhaps its just along the wall below the railing.

im pretty sure if you draw a line from the arch to the center of the fountain and keep going it would go through the site of the giant flagpole then keep going over the railing (to the spot of the casque) and then if you keep going straight you run right into Fort Point the object of twains attention.  a straight line All your image manipulation still needs to come back to from the flagpole to the casque is in the direction of an object of twains attention your spot by the path isnt, is it?

No, but I don't follow the same interpretation.  What I have done is identify just two specific elements and pursued whether it's possiible to match he perspective in the image, which I have done.  The arch and the pool.  I think the strong visuals are most important.  I don't ccompletely dispute the Betsy Ross Pole as being linked to the verse but I'm not sure its used specifically as a pointer to te casque.  The lamp post is also a pole.  The pool vector comes from the direction of the Joan of Arc statue.  Is Joan of Arc outside the realm of possibilities as an object of Twains attention?

The pool vector comes from the direction of the Joan of Arc statue.  Is Joan of Arc outside the realm of possibilities as an object of Twains attention? oh absolutly not Joan is definitly an object of twains attention. But I still think you are arbitrarily picking and choosing.  in the following picture. there are 4 lines Green - your line fountain through lampost to path edge (note it doesnt point at Joan) Purple - Joan through fountain to path edge Red - Joan through flagpole to path edge Yellow - Joan through lamp post. Each path seems valid to me using your theory but ends up in a different spot. another question is why that lamp post, as there are 6 similar lamp posts around the lot. 2 are closer to Joan that that one. and what about that lamp post counts as Giant. as there are bigger lamp posts in the park within site of the parking lot. I understand you are working on a different interpretation (more power to you!) but,  the only thing that makes those lamp posts interesting is the high points are three line.  but then you choose basically to disregard the giant pole line and ... If Joan is your object of twain's attention why are you going away from her when the verse clearly states go toward the object. and lastly your line that bisects the fountain doesn't even point at Joan. you are fudging by making your line curve, which basically negates all your careful trigonometry. You are cherry picking to make this fit.

Maltedfalcon, appreciate your critique of my approach.  Clearly there's many ways to look at the problem.  I'm not as convinced of anything now that I see the options you counter with. I've changed my view radically.  Now I'm not at all sure were to go.  Looking a all lamp posts equally is a good place to start.  A couple of ideas I'm still mulling over are with the line Running North, but first across.  The embroidery term 'running stitch' might be a link to consider.  Betsy Ross' embroidered flag could be North of an essential position.  The marker for the Kanrin Maru has the word "first" in its description of the first Japanese embassy to cross to the US.  I feel like the flag pole and the Karin Maru memorial are involved here.

The terminus of the Lincoln Memorial Highway might better signify the first across as the first road across America.  I find that a spot directly South of the Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole has to be important.

If you look at the picture just to the right of joan of arch on the street it says Ped Xing. Just to the right of "Ped" in the clearing between two trees just a few steps from the street is gray/black blob This is the Lincoln Highway Memorial Marker. The original location of the Lincoln Highway Memorial Marker was at the peak of the parking lot in line with the arch/fountain/flagpole/Fort Point. At some time between the 1960s and the 1990s the memorial was removed and then placed in the location it is. But for several years the memorial was totally gone. It is possible and actually likely that during the time frame of the creation of the book, there was no Lincoln Highway Memorial Marker in the area at all. I got this from the Lincoln Highway Association historian.

So that is possibly a significant detail.  Somewhere along the edge of the golf course East of Joan and South of the flagpole or original marker might be where this is heading.  Right now I'm definately throwing out all my previous ideas.  This is getting very interesting.

The Rodin statues, the Three Shades which also adorn the Gates of Hell along with the Thinker and point to the Latin phrase for "abandon hope, all who enter" were located at the head of the lot.  Just to the right of that the marker was first installed.  I'm not definite of this, but I think the original marker was in place in 1980 along with the Betsy Ross flag pole.  It may have suffered vandalsm at some point, been stolen or broken. Wish we had information on when exactly the marker was (re)moved. maltedfalcon, what do you think of this breakdown?  Start at the arch entrance, then walk towards the posts in the plaza, veer to the right towards the golf course and spot an alignment of lamp post over fountain (yellow line at green circle) then continue towards the path that looks like the woman's hair part and follow the part that runs North in the direction of the 15th hole (near ace is high) and spot the alignment of baluster with Lincoln marker (blue dot on pink line) with Betsy Ross, climb up the bank to a point where you stand right along the wall with the baluster looking as big as it is in the image and then turn towards the Joan of Arc for the dig spot?  That's so close to where you just dug.  I'm thinking this all makes linear sense.

I came across a sudden inspiration....or a cultish sway in judgment...when I read about Rodin's connection to the Hotel Biron in Paris. After discovering the possibility there is a theme connected to "Jewels from Byron" in new Orleans with the Mystik Krewe of Comus and possibly other avenues or uses of historical nom de "Byron". ...something to think about...damn coincidences.

erexere wrote:: veer to the right towards the golf course and spot an alignment of lamp post over fountain ok why did you veer to the right? just an arbitrary direction or did you have an instruction from the verse or image?

maltedfalcon just throwing this out there,and i havent really checked it out,not sure if it was ever mentioned giant pole giant step.......pole vaulting not sure ,if or where they pole vault Kezar Stadium http://g.co/maps/fsse9

maltedfalcon wrote:: ok why did you veer to the right? just an arbitrary direction or did you have an instruction from the verse or image? After recognizing the lines 4-6 are to do with the Betsy Ross pole and either the lamps which are triple posts OR the Three Shades which are posted atop a wide pedestal, and step towards the fountain from the arch to investigate, I make use of Line 7, "sounds from the sky" as instruction to enter the golf course at the closest heading.  Veering to the left encounters a balustrade that connects to the boxed in area dedicated to Francis E. Willard.  Veering Southeast towards the 11th hole fairway seems a little counterproductive since we were just looking in the direction of the Betsy Ross.  Noticing that the balustrade terminates and a nice easy shortcut to the 2nd hole area is (Near Ace is low) seems more reasonable and is just North of that is the 15th hole (where Ace is high).  Finding that the top of lamp post and the fountain fits the image of the watch and table in the image from standing at the balustrades east terminus looks like the confirmation that this path to the golf course is on track.  Hopefully this is close to the right idea with using parts of the image to remove doubt where something would otherwise be arbitrary. I wondered if this might be a close enough match to the balustrade in swapping places between outside and inside walls of the table stand center post:

erexere wrote:: I'm not definite of this, but I think the original marker was in place in 1980 along with the Betsy Ross flag pole.  It may have suffered vandalsm at some point, been stolen or broken. the marker was removed by the groundskeepers after it fell over (probabably bumped by a car and then it was placed in storage. We aren't exactly sure when this happened.  but the groundskeepers believe it was in the late 70s. This concurs with what the people at the lincoln highway association believe They still have the original

I read that they are seven feet long.  Looks like they had to dig a hole 3 feet down to get them set.  Crazy SF drivers!

Unknown: The replica marker was placed in 2002 during the revitalized Lincoln Highway Association's 10th Annual National Convention by the Association's California Chapter. This article had me wondering. Also the Wiki on Lincoln Park says the replica marker was placed in 2002. I like to reconfirm anything reported by the Lincoln Highway Association whether their response is with respect to the first location, second location, or replica of the marker at the second location.

I have a copy of the Lincoln Highway Association History of the Lincoln Highway. SF to Truckee. I will look it up. but I think  it was written before 2002.

You dragging your talons on this one maltedfalcon?  I thought we were on a roll. This little rock formation looked a little bit like Lincoln...

Thats been noted many times and most likely indicates lincoln park. Its the rainy season here now - waiting for some nicer weather.

Hi all, first time posting here but have been fascinated by the hunt since I heard about it a few years ago. Have been researching a bit, and was really trying to make a Golden Gate Park connection work, but stumbled upon something today that I think conclusively puts the treasure in the Fisherman's Wharf / Ghirardelli Square area. While looking on google maps, I noticed for the first time that Lincoln Highway was showing up on North Point Street. I checked other places, and the Lincoln Highway does indeed run along North Point Street. The Lincoln silhouette clue now makes sense in this area, which is reinforced by the peculiar specificity of the reversed "G" and "h", which I think also locates the search in the area of the Ghirardelli Factory. For me, this conclusively links Image 1 and Verse 7, because the air really does smell sweet around Ghirardelli Square, and I haven't been able to come up with another explanation for the line (even flowerbeds, at their most fragrant, don't really smell sweet unless planted with something extremely perfumey). thanks!

Hi puppidou. There's only two ways to take this treasure hunt forward. 1) Dig a hole 2) Find someone willing to dig a hole Anything else is prevarication. WR

Yeah, I had 3 good days of searching and digging on another hunt the past week.  I dug about 20 holes based on a variety of methods.  I tried digging where something was out of place, like a bundle of sticks standing upright because a person intentionally placed them there in a spiral pattern, or beneath a single chunk of concrete amidst a ring of natural stones, or a spot exactly in the middle of three equidistant dogwood trees, or at a spot that lines up with a series of objects in a line or right angle.  I didn't get bothered by any park rangers or folks walking their dogs.  I've found the use of a sturdy 48" copper grounding rod really helps probing depth between 2 and three feet.  A small sledge (2 pound) just double the weight of a regular hammer head works well to get the probe down that far quickly.  You'll notice if you hit any sturdy object or rock since it's easy to tell the difference between going in smooth and meeting resistance.

No prevaricating. Only trying to alert people to Lincoln Highway in this area.

People have been trying to fit something around Ghiradelli Square since 2004. Pinpointing a location from the verse is the problem. But the thing is, even if you had an idea for an exact spot somewhere in the region of Ghiradelli Square, you'd find it virtually impossible to get anyone to investigate it. This hunt can only be solved by someone with a spade and a plane ticket.

why would I need a plane ticket?

Because it's cheaper than a fancy ticket.

shecrab wrote:: Because it's cheaper than a fancy ticket. It took me a minute, but I LOL'd!!

maltedfalcon wrote:: I have a copy of the Lincoln Highway Association History of the Lincoln Highway. SF to Truckee. I will look it up. but I think  it was written before 2002. I really like this photo:

I've just updated my PDF version of the SF trail to include everything I can think of relating to Lafayette Park. http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/sftrail.pdf Now the sunny weather's here, maybe you'd like to check it out Malted? (Hey, I can dream. )

Red circle is a visual clue, blue rectangle is the Giant Pole, yellow rectangle is the "L" - Running north, but first across.

I'm willing to deviate from my "golf balls in the sky" idea to consider that this image represents a sky full of worlds, which in turn is a rebus for "The Underworld".  I'm using that idea to bolster the idea that there is something to do with Rodin's Gates of Hell art piece.

Might be, but once we use the image to confirm the city  and the site confirmers we basically dont need it anymore and use the verse. Since none of the others make such a deep connection within the image I feel safe knowing its Lincoln Park in SF.

maybe it only serves as a reference to the word Legion, which basically means "many".

catherwood wrote:: Of course, it's your choice, since we still are not sure which verse you're using for your clues. I myself have already experienced a real-world mini-treasure hunt, digging up a shard in The Journey hunt for The Stone. http://www.thestone.com/ "buried clue" On my little adventure, i made the mistake of rushing out the door without all my print-outs.  I assumed I could go from memory, but when I got there all the trees looked alike.  I *thought* i had the right bend in the path -- and indeed later i found out that i was right -- but could not determine where the X was to dig.  Two hours later, another player came along and HE had printouts!  We had never met before, not even online, but we became a team -- I did have a shovel which he did not think to bring. I do think there was an extra benefit to having someone with me to share the thrill.  If you don't want help solving this one -- and i *totally* understand how that feels -- at least bring along a family member or friend.  And beverages, bring beverages. And a camera.  And print-outs of *everything* and/or the book itself. And a way to clean-up afterwards. Have fun, make an adventure of it rather than a narrow task, and GOOD LUCK! That's a great story about teaming up.  This hunt in particular is extremely difficult as a solo effort.  Everyone should be as lucky to have additional help.  An extra pair of eyes especially.

Anyone think this looks like a fortune teller?  A woman with mystical symbols, a table with a circular object in the center...all that's missing is a fortune cookie...

Not a complete or strong image but turned sideways the roman numerals I, II or III on the robe look like sections of the Golden Gate Bridge.

erexere wrote:: Red circle is a visual clue, blue rectangle is the Giant Pole, yellow rectangle is the "L" - Running north, but first across. Does that image look more like a stone window or door or is it just me? It looks like stone all around on the edges.

Definitely stone all around and moreso a window to a prison in a mountainside. One doesnt simply walk into Mordor...they climb through a window.

I'm not arguing against the large rectangular shape of Golden Gate Park, but I am very curious about this rectangle compared to this bench which is found located along a the line I've determined by settling on some answers to the riddles presented as being the Betsy Ross flag pole, the Lincoln Highway Marker, and the direction of Alcatraz on a map.  Choosing the point of origin to be The Thinker with direction to the parking lot and large circular fountain, then over the balustrade and across the golf course, down the small hillside and to the bench on the other side of the road facing the Golden Gate Bridge in the direction of Alcatraz. Here's some coordinated colored lines which need little imagination to see how they match the simple shape of the bench.  Easily a coincidence in most cases, but this spot works well enough to satisfy most of the verse and image thus making it a strong candidate.

Notice the rectangle in the middle of the bench. it indicates this bench was placed as a memorial  or remembrance of someone. Next time I am in SF I will get you a detailed photo of the plaque. As always the question will be when was it place.

That miniplaque dedication might be a big deal.  At this point I only have a direction of investigation.  I don't know whether digging to the left or right or behind the bench is justified.  Could be much ground beyond the bench to consider.  Something copper colored and circular beneath the bench...or is it a stain from someones spilled beverage...ice cream...vomit? Just threw my back out something fierce...might cancel travel plans but I'm thinking I could go south to SF or north to Seattle area inba couple weeks.

thats the ground, its obviously a circular hole in the cement, the kind they would leave to plant a small tree or shrub. it looks like the bench was placed later above where the shrub used to be.

If you insert image 1 into a word processor, crop the bottom half off and transform the top half of the image. I used the mouse to select the bottom edge and dragged up until I had a very narrow panoramic view of the hills. Notice that the hills have a blue outline . I now realise why . Some hills now appear in the distance. Or tilt the book away from you. Is this the view from Russian Hill Park?

wk, I bet someone who is on site will be able to confirm this for you.  I've never been there, and google streetview is just not perfect when it comes to replicating the real thing.  My mind's eye is stretched enough as it is, I think you'd have more luck squeezing blood from a stone than manipulating a hidden image from a pic that way. I'm not opposed to starting in Russian Hill or near the Dragon Arch, because I think the path takes you all the way up to the Palace of the Legion of Honor.  From there it becomes obvious that you take direction from the Thinker to the Betsy Ross to the Lincoln Marker over the ballustrade, across the 15th hole, and over to a bench that sits with a nice view of GG Bridge.  I believe that nothing has much changed in that natural setting and when someone who knows this verse and image well gets close to that spot they WILL FIND A CASQUE.  I believe it would've been obvious 30 years ago.  It might be less so now, but I think still very doable.  Come on maltedfalcon, get movin.

Cask 1 Verse 7 San Francisco I see how Russian Hill becomes interesting from a visual perspective with the 'hG'.  I never found any evidence that supported that location as strongly as that of Lincoln Park.  Perhaps the point of Russian Hill is solely to get a good look at Alcatraz and Ghiradelli and then wonder why it fits just that portion of the solution when you're putting it all together up at the Palace of the Legion of Honor and Golf Course. Some of the main objects of my theory have been subject to removal and relocation.  I believe the "giant pole" is literally a giant pole in the parking lot of the Palace of the Legion of Honor, which was there in the early 80's, but removed in the mid to late 90's.  I don't know the actual dates. The Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole, A step or stair pertains to climbing a short distance.  A stairway: takes you to the second floor of a home. A giant step pertains to traversing a long distance.  A highway: takes you to the next town. The Lincoln Memorial Highway terminus marker was installed by the boyscouts,  it has been relocated to the other side of the parking lot. Following these two objects in line on a map takes you in Alcatraz' direction.  In jewels direction is an object of Twain's attention: his pen.  Twain = Samuel Clemens pen name.  Alcatraz = PEN.  Federal Penitentiary. If you follow this path in that direction it stops at a bench that faces the Golden Gate Bridge and has these old trees that present this pattern that matches the dragon head and arms of the woman. Something of a new tactic Ive turned to involves really focusing on what the verse is doing to identify some points as distant clues for the purpose of getting situated and which clues referenced in its final lines strictly guide us to what pinpoints. If the main part of this verse establishes these three line clues, Flagpole, Lincoln post, and a direction of Alcatraz, the final lines are line "to the place the casque is kept" doesnt look like much help.  I think the image must play a stronger role in this case and at this spot where the trees look like arms folded theres a long rectangle shape in the top surface of the bench.  I think it identifies with the border outlining her dragon.  Im willing to think the golden pearl above it on her neck is the same as digging at the end of the bench, west side.

Those are Eucalyptus trees. They grow extremely fast. in 1980s the seaward side of the road was being kept clear of trees (except for the torrey pines)  check the history images on google earth and the trees on the leeward side of the road were kept cut low. So as not to interfere with the view from  the palace. I don't think your trees were there at all during the 1980s sometime in the 90s they stopped trimming the trees and planted lots more. (erosion control??, more natural?) basically the only good views now are between the trees... Just to say again your mark twain - alcatraz link leaves me cold.  The "Pen" wasn't created until 20 some years after his death. so the penitentiary was never an object of his attention. And you cannot see it from Lincoln Park.  However you can see both the Golden Gate and Fort Point, both of which were actual objects of Twain's attention he wrote about them both. And you can also see (in another direction,) Downtown SF, another object of Twain's Attention.  Your theory that we should ignore those right in front of us for an illogical word play doesn't make sense. Also to this point we have no proof that the Lincoln Highway post was in place during the 1980s lastly if you drew a line through the Door and the pole, the lincoln highway marker would not be along it . if you ran the line through the marker it would miss your bench by 30-40 feet.

Lots of good points, thanks for addressing my theory. I'm really convinced by the opportunity for some old stable tree growth to match the painting, especially at a 45 degree angle as the parking lot on a standard north-is-up map matches the shape of the woman's head.  I agree there's eucalyptus trees in the area, but the particular tree group I'm focused on is Monterey Cypress, slow growing and established in the 1930's tract of planting. Where did we leave the story about that terminus marker?  I thought someone said it was missing at some point, found in a ditch, and is now in some old professor's back yard...it's replacement ended up being placed in it's current position at the edge of the lot as part of the lots reconstruction.  We are sorely lacking in details on this area, eh? I'm sorry for the bad logic, but the Twain's attention = pen, and the idea that we go in that general direction of a PEN (Alcatraz) with approximate precision, along with the idea that the verse may begin with a good view of Alcatraz and the "Gh" of the chocolate factory, seems like it pulls a ton of ideas together. As for precision on drawing a line from pole and post to Alcatraz or a specific bench, I'm not sure about that either.  It looks like a rough approximation at best and I think that's just the point.  We get our precision in this case from the image where it presents the rectanglar shape with the pearl at it's end, so I'm willing to bet the casque is buried directly off the long end of a bench.  I think the picture I grabbed off streetview is a lucky break. Just now musing over a mention of Mercury/Hermes in the Odyssey in regard to sweet smelling cypress: http://books.google.com/books?id=NMz5OB ... CD8Q6AEwCQ Interesting, the story is about Odysseus being held aggajnst his will on an island for 7 years.  I keep wondering if there's room to fit some Greek references in these puzzles.

After speaking with the grounds keeper, the original lincoln highway marker was found on the floor under a work bench in the groundskeeper work area in the early 1990s.  People(at the time) who had worked their for 20+ years do not remember who put it there, or when, but they also did not remember it being in place and then going missing.  The best theory is that it was knocked over by a car in the 60s or early 70's and put in the shed until it could be replaced, then forgotten about. So the predominant theory by the Lincoln park groundskeepers is it was not in place in the early 1980s. I in no way believe that Gh has any association with the Ghirardelli's sign.  I will admit I originally did, Until I found the original tourist map of Golden Gate Park that was used by JJP to create the illustration.  and the Gh lined up with the Great highway  and the fonts matched the text on the map.(except it was reversed.). Ghirardelli's is a red herring, admittedly a tasty chocolate red herring, but a red herring nonetheless (yes the first h in highway on the map was lower case If you draw a straight line through the center of the door, the location of the flagpole, in intersects directly with Fort Point and the southern anchor of the Golden Gate Bridge. It will also pass right through your bench.  So it is a possibility, however, I still haven't seen proof the benches were there in 1981.  Whats missing is the exact clue that takes us to the bench.  Giant Step does not work, you cant make a giant step to get to the bench, you need to  climb over a wall walk down a hill and across a street.  That in no translation = a giant step, unless you arbitrarily conjecture a giant tall enough to make that one step. In that case you would need a reason to make the giant exactly that tall.  using the reason "because thats how far the bench is" doesn't work because you would be starting from the end. The way this has to work, is solve the clues and arrive at a spot to dig, not pick a spot to dig and backtrack the clues to get there. In the solved, casques when the spot is found you look at the clues  and its obvious. when I consider the bench I look at the clues and go how the hell did it get here?

I like you're approach maltedfalcon.  It's tough to decide how to take that information from the groundskeepers' memory.  As for the giant step to the bench, I only assumed it's a spot you get to that has a safe and accessible boundary before it drops off steeply.  The bench idea really grabs me as a "place to sit and think" to go with the "Thinker" idea of being at a stone wall.  That it looks out at the Golden Gate Bridge might take shape as a "door" metaphor. Maybe Fort Point figures in better.  Maybe the terminus marker itself doesn't belong in the process, but acknowledgint the highway in some form is what's important and the reason the words "giant step" are used.  I'm enthusiastic about the idea that a highway = giant step.  I'd like to think the giant pole should work to line up perfectly with something to figure out the dig spot. Let's rehash this some more.  I believe you posted all you're findings on the highway as hG already, is there anything else you have on how the highway map clue fits?

Wasn't Golden Gate Park considered the best solution early on?  Why was it abandoned in favor of Lincoln Park?  Oh, just because digging for it did not turn up the casque.  That doesn't mean the solution was wrong, but that the casque has probably been destroyed over time. In all of the theories, I kept my focus on the key instruction on where to dig: the pole.  We had two prime candidate places where we know there used to be a GIANT POLE in or near Golden Gate Park.  Not a large pole, not a flagpole, but a pole for giants.  I feel like people are looking at Lincoln Park now only because nothing was ever found within GG Park. Sadly, I think this treasure is long gone, and we have passed the correct solution already without confirmation. Possibility One: Along the Great Highway at the Cliff House was a totem pole.  It was above the beach, which would be a great place to bury a treasure for a short-term hunt, but likely washed away long ago.  I direct your attention to this page and the photo of the area beneath the pole, shown as a hill with striations very much like our painting. http://www.berbec.com/rberbec/images/ph ... index.html (see the caption "The side of the mountain dug through for the road.") Possibility Two: The wooden sculpture "Goddess of the Forest" was a 26-foot tall figure of a woman, but being carved from a single tree trunk had the appearance of a totem pole.  It stood in Golden Gate Park until 1986.  The major question of where to dig would be in relation to where she might have taken a giant step.  However, the park land was dug up for irrigation over the years.  We may never know whether the casque was destroyed in the process. My prediction is that someone will eventually start to dig around Lincoln Park, come up empty, and thus conclude that there MUST be a better solution.  The cycle will begin again, and continue in frustration without end.  We each need to consider what kind of evidence is sufficient for our own satisfaction, short of finding the casque itself.  If the treasure is gone, if no evidence remains, what will you accept as "good enough" to stop looking elsewhere?

Unknown: In 1881, Adolf Sutro purchased 22 acres (89,000 m2) of undeveloped land at the edge of the city, which included a promontory overlooking the Cliff House and Seal Rocks with breathtaking views of the Pacific Ocean, Mount Tamalpais, and the Golden Gate. Taking advantage of the views, Sutro turned this property into Sutro Heights. Unknown: Chief Mathias Joe Capilano of the Squamish Indians of Western Canada, he carve um 58-foot totem pole for George K. Whitney to plant in front of Cliff House. Heap big pole, one of biggest in world, it marks Western end of pioneers’ trek. Unknown: Finally, we reached the Great Western Sea. There was no place farther we could go. Good post catherwood. Have to admit I haven't looked at the Cliff House totem pole theory before, and it's the best giant pole I've seen. I was starting to wonder if the shapes in Image 1 might suggest Seal Rock. Twain wrote about The Cliff House here... http://www.twainquotes.com/Era/18640703.html "At stone wall's door the air smells sweet"...could that even be the Cliff House restaurant...? I guess Malted has already checked Sutro Heights Park. That date again. http://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/th ... house.html Reminds me of the story in the introduction. It's one of those places I feel BP might have hinted at, even if he didn't end up there. From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl Incidentally I've only just noticed how close the Cathay House restaurant is to Portsmouth Square Plaza. Dunno how long it's been there, though there seems to have been a Cathay House in Chinatown since the '50s. Education and Justice for all to see I guess one of the most obvious interpretations is a law school. This is just off Octavia at 20 Haight St.

While the Totem pole at Cliff house had 1 thing going for it, It's a giant pole. From that spot you cannot see sutro tower (high points are three or San Francisco State U or  the law school. The biggest thing against it is of course the entire area was bulldozed and rebuilt as the road was widened and cliff house was remodeled. So if the casque was there, it is not now. But the biggest thing against it, was no site confirmers in the image. Nothing in the image matches even the rocks do not match, But if we look to the other found casques for our methodology,  Chicago and cleveland, they have similarities we can use as a method. The iconic image... Chicago is the water tower, Cleveland is the Tall building (I cant recall its name.)  From the iconic image there is a single road you can take to the treasure ground with no turns.  The treasure ground being the part where the verse takes over. Then the image helps more by supplying site confirmer images (things you can see from the casque location) if in image1 the most obvious thing (GGpark) is the iconic image. then the road that takes you from GGpark straight to lincoln park is 34th ave (her fingers point to 3 and 4  ) Then her head matches the shape of the parking lot in lincoln park perfectly. (there is a silhouette of lincoln in the image) but perhaps it means go from lincoln park to GGpark how do we know that Lincoln park is not the iconic image? because of the site confirmer images,  the Barred window matches the palace gate, the statue of el cid, the object under the table matches the seamen's monument In the middle of this parking lot in 1981 was the tallest flagpole in the us.  We have a clear view of Several objects of Twain's Attention all the lamp posts have 3 points as well as sutro tower is in plain view from this location. I think I could go back and actually find the casque, but I was told there was lots of dirt added at the location where I was digging, I think the casque is simply deeper than I was able to dig at the time. I plan to go back , but do not have the time currently. @Erexere, one point against the bench location is from there you can no longer see any of the site confirmers. but from the location just over the railing you can see them all. BTW I finally noticed your login name is a palindrome...

On Google Earth you can see the flagpole shadow if you switch on historic view and move the slider back to 1938.

Maltedfalcon.  I'm sorry I've been offensive towards you in the past.  I'm an abrasive personality.  You've done a good job raising questions and concerns while avoiding the blindnesses and pitfalls from deviating from the evidence.  I might continue to argue te validity of the evidence...so we will continue to disagree on much...anyways, lets find a casque. Yeah, "eric's here" in palindrome. Let me ask you what you think about comparing the "dragons pearl" symbolism to the Greek Aegis as a form of protection?  Do you think the words "chaste, perfect as the silver moon" can mean "polished round and reflective"?  Does the subject of 'reflection' serve as both a shield from Medusa and that which The Thinker does at the Palace door (archway)?  Does the Athena nickname Pallus Athena serve as a tie to "Palace" as homonym similar to how "sweet air" might be "sugar heir"?  Lastly, do es a bench to sit upon represent the act of "reflection"?

erexere wrote:: Let me ask you what you think about comparing the "dragons pearl" symbolism to the Greek Aegis as a form of protection?  Do you think the words "chaste, perfect as the silver moon" can mean "polished round and reflective"?  Does the subject of 'reflection' serve as both a shield from Medusa and that which The Thinker does at the Palace door (archway)?  Does the Athena nickname Pallus Athena serve as a tie to "Palace" as homonym similar to how "sweet air" might be "sugar heir"?  Lastly, do es a bench to sit upon represent the act of "reflection"? Are we still talking about the same book?

Egbert wrote:: Are we still talking about the same book?   :-/ I'm talking about Clash of the Titans.

erexere wrote:: Maltedfalcon.  I'm sorry I've been offensive towards you in the past.  I'm an abrasive personality. never once have you offended me.  Hope I havent offended you. we can argue over ideas all you want.  I never have taken it personally. your method's aren't mine,  of course mine still haven't found a casque either, so whose to say who is closer.

Not sure when the Rodin thinker was put in the courtyard, but I'm not sure if it was there in 1981 it might have been in a different location.  The whole thing was redone in the 90s lots of renovations and re-arranging. I can see a mythological /clash of the titans link with the cleveland picture, this one though not so much.

malt, I think the issue with whether or not the L marker was in that exact spot is something to consider but it should at least be recognized that it was likely there for the greater portion of a century.  The main reason for it having been moved wouldv been when the lot was being redone or had it been vandalised.  I think we are just short of real proof but we have good cause to believe it may have been intact at the time of this puzzle's creation.  I certainly expect it to have been there based on my recent theory. The Clash of the Titans film isn't really the reason for considering the Aegis.  I believe that comes from reading the Iliad and the Odyssey.

All of my research led me to the conclusion it probably was not in place at the time. I don't think , that it had been there in the past, has any effect on the hunt. BP would not have included it as a clue if it was not there when he planted the casque.

erexere wrote:: The Clash of the Titans film isn't really the reason for considering the Aegis.  I believe that comes from reading the Iliad and the Odyssey. I see nothing in the verse or image that would indicate mixing oriental themes with greek is a valid concept.

MF, I see that its unnecessary to go into the Greek parallel.  I just have a tendency to feed the idea that Preiss did so.  The only real evidenfe I can land on is the Gh as a veiled clue about Hg or Mercury.  The Athena idea is just a reach.  LotJ uses the word chaste, so I thought Athena represents one of the virginal Goddesses.  Again, no need for all of this...just my habit.

Hi everyone. I just discovered The Secret yesterday. Living in San Francisco, I've been fixated on Image 1, and I'm finally caught up with this massive thread. As could be expected, every idea I had has already been covered here, except for two: 1) I see that the thinking here has moved away from Golden Gate Park, but has anyone looked at the windows of the Sharon Building, located at the east end of the park, in connection with the barred window in Image 1? http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/07/56/11/2024037/11/628x471.jpg 2) Again in GGP, and pairing with Verse 7, "object of Twain's attention" makes me think of the boat rental area at Stowe Lake. There's currently a large raft there, where paddle boats are moored. Was this there in the early 80s? I live very close to the park, so will probably spend more time walking around the east end this weekend.

Welcome to the hunt. Yes the sharon building was examined in detail also  in the light of Stone wall's door. Actually at the same end of the park in the direction of Kezar stadium there is a pedestrian underpass (about 50 yards from the sharon building) that bears a much more accurate likeness to the window in the rock. Oh yes paddle boats were available in the 80s at stow lake. Don't forget the air would smell sweet at the conservatory of flowers Aces High (Highway 1) crosses GGpark  (on cross over street) the ladies arms are crossed over... but before you get there you pass prayerbook cross.. (first across) You are traveling on JFK blvd and you are almost to the location of the Giant Totem pole. The south side of the park is bordered by Lincoln blvd. (and his silhouette is right there on the south side of the map..)

malted: Do you know if the totem pole is still over at City College, with the Pan-American Unity Mural? I read that they moved it there when they took it out of GGP.

here is a 1987 map of GGpk interactive TerraServer http://bit.ly/19m7cbM

Also brand new to the game.  I will be in SF in January and thinking a step from the totem pole location makes a lot sense, where was it location before it was moved?

from page 28 "Finally, we reached the Great Western Sea. There was no place farther we could go. Only the strongest and strangest of the Shining Ones were still with me at the end of the trail. As I stood looking out at the blue waves coming in from the place where the sun was setting, I heard them say goodbye to me. When I turned to look for them, they too had vanished, and I was alone at the end of the world.* I waited there on the beach, for many days, for an idea." http://goo.gl/maps/nnsJe Sunset view from Sutro Baths on Google Maps. The bottom of the wall in front of the cave looks a good place. The rocks to the right of the cave match the image in some photos but have eroded badly in this view.

from page 28 "Finally, we reached the Great Western Sea. There was no place farther we could go. Only the strongest and strangest of the Shining Ones were still with me at the end of the trail. As I stood looking out at the blue waves coming in from the place where the sun was setting, I heard them say goodbye to me. When I turned to look for them, they too had vanished, and I was alone at the end of the world.* I waited there on the beach, for many days, for an idea." http://goo.gl/maps/nnsJe Sunset view from Sutro Baths on Google Maps. The bottom of the wall in front of the cave looks a good place. The rocks to the right of the cave match the image in some photos but have eroded badly in this view.

Unknown: HT3020'RECOVERY NOTE BY NATIONAL OCEAN SERVICE 1978 (JPR) HT3020'STATION AND REFERENCE MARKS WERE RECOVERED IN GOOD CONDITION.  THE HT3020'FOLLOWING ADDITIONS SHOULD BE ADDED TO THE 1932 DESCRIPTION BY J.B.JR, HT3020'THE 1948 RECOVERY BY W.M.G AND THE 1964 RECOVERY BY P.A.S.  THE HT3020'INTERSECTION OF CLEMENT AND 39TH STREET IS NOW BLOCKED BY A FENCE BUT HT3020'ACCESS MAY BE GAINED TO THE STATION VIA A NATIONAL PARK SERVICE HT3020'MAINTENANCE DRIVE BEGINNING NEAR THE ENTRANCE TO A VETERANS HOSPITAL HT3020'IN THE AREA.  THE STATION LIES IN THE ROUGH AREA OF A GULF COURSE THAT HT3020'SURROUNDED BY A FENCE, BUT A HOLE IN THIS FENCE (THROUGH WHICH ACCESS HT3020'MAY BE GAINED TO THE STATION) IS LOCATED WHERE THE MAINTENANCE ROAD HT3020'MENTIONED ABOVE MAKES ITS FIRST CURVE TO THE LEFT.  A PARK TYPE BENCH HT3020'LIES 30 FEET EAST OF THE STATION.  THE STATION IS SURROUNDED BY LARGE HT3020'TREES AND ITS USEFULNESS IS LIMITED UNLESS THE AREA IS CLEARED OR AN HT3020'OBSERVING TOWER IS ERECTED. HT3020'DESCRIBED BY B.F. HILLARD HT3020 marker in Lincoln Park, San Francisco http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark ... Box=HT3020 ...and you think we have problems searching!

Unknown: AF8575'DESCRIBED BY NATIONAL GEODETIC SURVEY 1998 (JDD) AF8575'THE STATION IS LOCATED AT LOWER FORT MASON IN THE CITY OF SAN AF8575'FRANCISCO.  FORT MASON IS NOW PART OF THE GOLDEN GATE NATIONAL AF8575'RECREATION AREA.  THE STATION IS LOCATED ON THE TOP OF A CONCRETE AF8575'LEDGE JUST NORTH OF THE SOUTH WALL OF THE BUILDING AT PIER ONE AT FORT AF8575'MASON AND IS ACCESSIBLE FROM THE ROOF OF THE BUILDING.  TO REACH THE AF8575'STATION FROM HIGHWAY 101 IN NORTH SAN FRANCISCO AT THE INTERSECTION OF AF8575'VAN NESS AVENUE AND LOMBARD STREET GO NORTH ON VAN NESS AVENUE FOR 0.2 AF8575'MI (0.3 KM) TO THE INTERSECTION OF BAY STREET. TURN LEFT AND GO WEST AF8575'ON BAY STREET FOR 0.4 MI (0.6 KM) TO THE INTERSECTION OF LAGUNA AF8575'STREET.  TURN RIGHT AND GO NORTH ON LAGUNA STREET FOR ABOUT 0.15 MI AF8575'(0.24 KM) TO THE ENTRANCE TO FORT MASON CENTER AND MARINA BOULEVARD ON AF8575'THE LEFT.  UPON ENTERING FORT MASON CENTER GO EAST AND THEN NORTH FOR AF8575'ABOUT 0.15 MI (0.24 KM) TO THE WESTERNMOST OF THREE LARGE PIER AF8575'BUILDINGS.  ENTER THE BUILDING AT THE SOUTHWEST ENTRANCE AND GO AF8575'UPSTAIRS TO THE SECOND LEVEL.  THEN CONTINUE UP A SET OF STAIRS NEAR AF8575'THE EASTERN SIDE OF THE BUILDING TO A POINT WHERE ACCESS TO THE ROOF AF8575'IS HAD THROUGH A HATCH.  GO THROUGH THE HATCH AND GO TO THE SOUTHERN AF8575'MOST POINT ON THE ROOF AT THE APEX OF THE ROOF AND THE STATION.  THE AF8575'STATION IS AN UNSTAMPED ONE-INCH BRASS DISK SET FLUSH IN THE TOP OF A AF8575'0.85 FT (0.26 M) BY 0.75 FT (0.23 M) CONCRETE LEDGE ABOUT 3.3 FT (1.0 AF8575'M) BELOW THE HIGHEST POINT OF THE SOUTH WALL OF THE BUILDING.  THE GPS AF8575'ANTENNA WAS MOUNTED ON THE TOP OF A SPECIALLY DESIGNED AND FABRICATED AF8575'ANTENNA MOUNT. wk, I've been thinking about these survey markers lately too, wondering if there's a connection to any of the locations. What started me is that a triangle with a dot in its center, seen in Image 1, is used on survey markers: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/d/da/MY4112-Station.jpg/220px-MY4112-Station.jpg It's a basic enough symbol that it could be coincidental, but pre-internet, wouldn't a survey marker be a clear way to get someone to a precise location, assuming readers could be reasonably expected to look up the information. Oh, and here's an awesome one for you: http://www.ngs.noaa.gov/cgi-bin/ds_mark.prl?PidBox=AF8575

Nice one! I am still having fun identifying and reading some of the others. There is one in Charleston which we have already considered and I just looked at another in New Orleans which seems to be very close to Café de Monde. "middle of 21" line in a verse.

.

treetops wrote:: malted: Do you know if the totem pole is still over at City College, with the Pan-American Unity Mural? I read that they moved it there when they took it out of GGP. yes I have been to visit it. its actually very sad whats left of such a huge sculpture

momatrance wrote:: Also brand new to the game.  I will be in SF in January and thinking a step from the totem pole location makes a lot sense, where was it location before it was moved? yes the pedestal it stood on is still in place it was in Lindley meadow.  you cant miss it. however you realize the entire circumference of the pedestal out to 5 feet and 4 feet deep has ben searched by digging over a 2 year period. So the one place I am sure the casque is not is, next to the pedestal of the Goddess of the Forest. but if you want to dig there, I can put you in touch with the groundskeepers, they were quite amused by the hunt and very helpful

found this picture in an old discarded photo album from a tour of SF in the 1970's... does anyone recognize where this constructed setting might have been or is it still existant?

The rocky formations on that backdrop sure look familiar.

I don't see exact matches, but it sure has the right feel.  Stone wall's door too.

I don't see exact matches, but it sure has the right feel.  Stone wall's door too.

do you have a link to the original location?

no, I found the photo in an old photo album that someone tossed in a garbage.  All the photos look like they are in SF.  Transamerica building, Sutter st., Dragon arch, etc.  All from the 70's.  I think it's definately pre-78.

no, I found the photo in an old photo album that someone tossed in a garbage.  All the photos look like they are in SF.  Transamerica building, Sutter st., Dragon arch, etc.  All from the 70's. I think it's definately pre-78.

Pretty nice match.  Looks kinda like a movie set.

Yeah, a stage for gold rush reenactments.

Can you scan the back for us?

forest_blight wrote:: Can you scan the back for us? The back is completely blank.  Not even a faint marking of an old date.  Here are some adjacent photos.

forest_blight wrote:: Can you scan the back for us? The back is completely blank.  Not even a faint marking of an old date.  Here are some adjacent photos.

It seems a bit out of the way, but that might be Sagebrush Theater at Frontier Village in San Jose. The mountain scene seems to be the backside of the fake wall in the second picture.

It seems a bit out of the way, but that might be Sagebrush Theater at Frontier Village in San Jose. The mountain scene seems to be the backside of the fake wall in the second picture.

Hello everyone, just found this board (and was introduced to The Secret) yesterday. I 've read through all the posts here since then and must say I am amazed at the research and creativity of all of you. I was recently in San Francisco for a few days in May and am so giddy all of you are discussing several places I got to visit on my quick trip. I 'm trying to digest everything I have read and some research I have done myself, but I thought I 'd throw out a couple observations that hopefully add a new spin or fresh take on things. 1. White Rabbit's interpretation of Verse 6 originally had me convinced it was in Lafayette Park. This took me on an adventure to research Samuel Holladay and his mansion on the summit of Lafayette Park (white house close at hand, if that does not refer to the apartment complex on site). Here's some information and some photos about Holladay and that area: http://www.sparkletack.com/2007/06/22/6 ... ette-park/ . Granted, the mansion was no longer in existence when BP hid the casques, but I found it to be interesting and may be of some indication of the burial location in that area. 2. Moreoever, if it is in Lafayette Park, perhaps the "between two arms extended" refers to each of the tennis nets of the adjacent tennis courts, each net appearing to be an arm extended. Perhaps the location is between the two tennis courts, level with the nets, and next to the fence (the bar that binds). This is a stretch, but wanted to throw it out there. 3. I was absolutely fascinated by the early discussion around Coit Tower. While the clothing of the lady in Image 1 appears to contain GGPark, could the blue portion itself be Coit Tower? Between the "G" and "h" on her shirt is a narrower portion of blue "fabric" that widens and continues downward for the rest of her outfit. Coit Tower is narrow at the top in a similar manner. Discussion regarding Coit Tower and Telegraph Hill died down long ago, but it seemed like there were many things in both Image 1 and Verse 7 that indicated it may be a viable site (or play a part in leading to the correct site). Since we have yet to find a definite image of a building in Image 1 linking it to San Francisco, perhaps Coit Tower is the image in blue. 4. Is the table's pedestal simply a candlestick in reference to Candlestick Park as a means of linking Image 1 to San Francisco? This seems oversimplified, sure, but I think we may put too much weight on each detail of the picture sometimes. I don't doubt I haven't added much to the conversation at this point, but I know many of you have been laboring over these items for a decade (or more!), and thought I would share these observations from someone new to the game. Keep up the good work everyone! I look forward to following along and contributing where I can.

Hello everyone, just found this board (and was introduced to The Secret) yesterday. I've read through all the posts here since then and must say I am amazed at the research and creativity of all of you. I was recently in San Francisco for a few days in May and am so giddy all of you are discussing several places I got to visit on my quick trip. I'm trying to digest everything I have read and some research I have done myself, but I thought I'd throw out a couple observations that hopefully add a new spin or fresh take on things. 1. White Rabbit's interpretation of Verse 6 originally had me convinced it was in Lafayette Park. This took me on an adventure to research Samuel Holladay and his mansion on the summit of Lafayette Park (white house close at hand, if that does not refer to the apartment complex on site). Here's some information and some photos about Holladay and that area: http://www.sparkletack.com/2007/06/22/6 ... ette-park/ . Granted, the mansion was no longer in existence when BP hid the casques, but I found it to be interesting and may be of some indication of the burial location in that area. 2. Moreoever, if it is in Lafayette Park, perhaps the "between two arms extended" refers to each of the tennis nets of the adjacent tennis courts, each net appearing to be an arm extended. Perhaps the location is between the two tennis courts, level with the nets, and next to the fence (the bar that binds). This is a stretch, but wanted to throw it out there. 3. I was absolutely fascinated by the early discussion around Coit Tower. While the clothing of the lady in Image 1 appears to contain GGPark, could the blue portion itself be Coit Tower? Between the "G" and "h" on her shirt is a narrower portion of blue "fabric" that widens and continues downward for the rest of her outfit. Coit Tower is narrow at the top in a similar manner. Discussion regarding Coit Tower and Telegraph Hill died down long ago, but it seemed like there were many things in both Image 1 and Verse 7 that indicated it may be a viable site (or play a part in leading to the correct site). Since we have yet to find a definite image of a building in Image 1 linking it to San Francisco, perhaps Coit Tower is the image in blue. 4. Is the table's pedestal simply a candlestick in reference to Candlestick Park as a means of linking Image 1 to San Francisco? This seems oversimplified, sure, but I think we may put too much weight on each detail of the picture sometimes. I don't doubt I haven't added much to the conversation at this point, but I know many of you have been laboring over these items for a decade (or more!), and thought I would share these observations from someone new to the game. Keep up the good work everyone! I look forward to following along and contributing where I can.

Or, rather, concerning the blue portion of the woman's clothing as I mentioned in my previous post, it appears it could be a silhouette of the former tallest building west of the Mississippi, the Bank of America building (now called the 555 California Street building). This link has a view of the building from Coit Tower (oddly enough, considering the other discussion in my post) that seems to match the silhouette quite well: http://www.aviewoncities.com/sf/bankofa ... ilding.htm .

Or, rather, concerning the blue portion of the woman's clothing as I mentioned in my previous post, it appears it could be a silhouette of the former tallest building west of the Mississippi, the Bank of America building (now called the 555 California Street building). This link has a view of the building from Coit Tower (oddly enough, considering the other discussion in my post) that seems to match the silhouette quite well: http://www.aviewoncities.com/sf/bankofa ... ilding.htm .

rocks near cave It has been recently suggested that the image must contain something to identify the correct location. Down the steps to Sutro baths is a cave and to the right of the cave is this rock formation. This is best viewed on Google Earth where there is a 360 degree panoramic photo called Sutro Final Copy. In front of this rock structure is a derelict wall which looks the ideal place. Here is my attempt to show the rock structure outline:

rocks near cave It has been recently suggested that the image must contain something to identify the correct location. Down the steps to Sutro baths is a cave and to the right of the cave is this rock formation. This is best viewed on Google Earth where there is a 360 degree panoramic photo called Sutro Final Copy. In front of this rock structure is a derelict wall which looks the ideal place. Here is my attempt to show the rock structure outline:

Do you think erosion is slow enough that the cliffs have not changed much since 1982? obviously there is some erosion, but the cliffs have been there forever. maybe they dont change that much How much do you think they have changed? I wonder if you could find a similar image to check.

Do you think erosion is slow enough that the cliffs have not changed much since 1982? obviously there is some erosion, but the cliffs have been there forever. maybe they dont change that much How much do you think they have changed? I wonder if you could find a similar image to check.

I think the angle of the sun helps. I already posted this photo: http://goo.gl/maps/nnsJe If you look down notice the angle of the walls meet here too. But there does seem to be a lot of extra lose rocks - some too large to move

I think the angle of the sun helps. I already posted this photo: http://goo.gl/maps/nnsJe If you look down notice the angle of the walls meet here too. But there does seem to be a lot of extra lose rocks - some too large to move

I can tell you that the ground in that immediate area is extremely dry, hard dirt that would crumble to dust if you tried to dig into it. Farther up the hill you're looking at dunes. It's only up in the woods, towards Sutro Heights, that you could reasonably bury something. In case you're wondering, inside that tunnel, waves come in from the ocean and regularly flood the ground. The other end of the tunnel deposits you on a very steep and rocky cliff face, where it would be extremely irresponsible to send someone hunting for treasure. Think helicopter rescue on the 11 o'clock news. That said, I would really love for Sutro Baths to be the location of the casque; my wife and I were married on the flat area up above your rock formations just two years ago!

I can tell you that the ground in that immediate area is extremely dry, hard dirt that would crumble to dust if you tried to dig into it. Farther up the hill you're looking at dunes. It's only up in the woods, towards Sutro Heights, that you could reasonably bury something. In case you're wondering, inside that tunnel, waves come in from the ocean and regularly flood the ground. The other end of the tunnel deposits you on a very steep and rocky cliff face, where it would be extremely irresponsible to send someone hunting for treasure. Think helicopter rescue on the 11 o'clock news. That said, I would really love for Sutro Baths to be the location of the casque; my wife and I were married on the flat area up above your rock formations just two years ago!

Ok, I'll admit I became obsessed with this and read every single page in one day. I just have a few thoughts. 1. I think the key is to find that window, an exact match however, and one that may no longer exist (I don't remember seeing the pedestrian door). When you reverse engineer the grant park find, the fence post is blatantly obvious and a nearly exact match. Cleveland is a little more subtle but the architecture where the casque was buried was fairly exact. 2. I think there's no reason to not say this isn't San Francisco. The curve below her hands is pretty close to being California, and I agree that her dress resembles coit tower. 3. I think the "lamp post" may be a pedestal. If you look at the negative space around it, and imagine them to be corners, it looks a lot like the trim to a statue's base (If it were square). My other theory is more literal and that its a specific drinking fountain, due to the little bell thing on top of the clock. 4. I think the location has something to do with the painting's asian imagery. There's no reason to suspect that the greek influence in the cleveland one and the fact that it was found in a greek garden is just a coincidence. (What Ireland has to do with gray park....I don't know.) 5. Has anyone started at city hall and tried to make the verses fit? Her head is a perfect dome shape and she's quite highlighted. It's also not too far from the Mark Twain hotel, if we interpret that verse literally. (Also literal would be if there was a statue of Mark Twain somewhere looking in some direction) That's all I got. Happy hunting! 6. Maybe the "X" means its the tenth verse.

image1 moons Why are there 11 moons in the sky in this image? I noticed that they are all different sizes. This allows them to be put in order say smallest 1 to largest 11: I really want there to be 12. Then I realised that there is a size missing. It is size 9. How about the moon in image 11? Well, it seems to be a size 12 BUT the halo around the star on image 11 seems to be the correct size 9. left to right:................. 1 8 11 5 4 12 7 6 3 10 2 clockwise left to right:.... 8 1 11 5 4 12 7 3 10 6 2 Now visualise the moons in say an orbit and maybe seen from the rock window:....... 11 8 1 4 5 12 7 3 2 10 6 Now here are the verses in the order of the month month/zodiac order.......... J F M A M J J A S O N D zodiac verse................... 11 08 04 05 12 07 01 03 09 02 10 06 The error is number 1. It needs to be between moon 7 and 3, and 9 was missing but this does start to look like the confirmation of the pairing. What if the star on image 11 is the correct size 1 to use? Then that would correct the discrepancy. It is also amazingly in the correct position between moon 7 and 3. The moon on image 11, and on the front cover, of the book is telling you where the sequence starts. Verse 11 Roanoke Island ........image 3 Verse 8 Milwaukee .............image 10 Verse 4 Cleveland .............Image 4 Verse 5 Charleston ............Image 2 Verse 12 Chicago ...............Image 5 Verse 7 San Francisco .........image 1 Verse 1 Houston ...............image 8 Verse 3 Boston ................image 11 Verse 9 St Augustine ..........image 6 Verse 2 Montreal ..............image 9 Verse 10 New York ..............image 12 Verse 6 New Orleans ...........Image 7 which matches the order of the locations around the zodiac image................03 10 04 02 05 01 08 11 06 09 12 07 (11160)

wk wrote:: Now visualise the moons in say an orbit and maybe seen from the rock window:....... 11 8 1 4 5 12 7 3 2 10 6 This is really neat, but I am not quite clear what you mean by:...

wk, for a moment I thought you had something, but then it gets reachy. I do like the idea of the first image having some kind of greater purpose. I think the LotJ does that though. It helps correlate a little something for each jewel and fair folk type. As for the many moons, i still have no idea why there are 11. One idea I belive has merit, fb mentioned this, the circle square square triangle near her shoulder and neckline could be symbolic for numbers: 1-4-4-3 according to number of sides. This could be two groups 14 and 43 and possibly reversed, so 41 and 34 maybe. When I read about Frank Morris' escape from Alcatraz I almost got excited about his prisoner number which was 1441, because I thought maybe 1443 mightve been the prisoner number of one of the other two escapees, but no, they werent. Its all puzzling. Its so hard to get comfortable with any interpretation. Im sure if we were provided with the correct solution we'd hate it all the same.

wk, this is quite amazing if it is correct. However, you lost me near the end. If you don't mind, can you explain it a little clearer and slower? How do you get from the order of the verses to match them with the images, at the end? Also, what happens to the moon which was #1 originally (far left) ? Where does the number 09 come in, between 3 and 2? How do you get it there? The "orbit order" is not really from closest to farthest from the door, is it? It's more like a "connect-the-dots" from left to right, isn't it? Any way to write numbers on the moons and explain this better? I'm really trying to understand it. Thanks. Nice job!

oh shit, i get it... I think... The last step is an alignment of the month in one row, and then the size (11 08 04 05 12 07 01 03 09 02 10 06) in the row beneath. Then, look at the month associated with each image. Look at the chart and the verse number that corresponds is the number below. For instance: Cleveland is March - move three letters over in row one, and then take the 04 in the row beneath. Chicago is May - move 5 letters over in row one, and then take the 12 in the row beneath. St. Augustine is September - move 9 letters over in row one, and then take the 09 in the row beneath. etc. I am trying to number the moons right now and see them in orbit... which is the part I am not getting.

Yeah... the more I look at the moons, I don't really see how the ones on Image 1 are all different sizes. They look to all be 1 of 3 sizes to me...

I think the moon sizes are subtly different. The only way to know for sure is to make a copy of the picture, and cut out the moons.

Governor Arnold suggests maybe the many moons are intended to draw attention to an effect such as standing in a hall of mirrors, Or perhaps it's an allusion to Heinlein's The Moon is a Harsh Mistress with catapults firing bombs from the sky or bringing attention to a "Warden" on an Earth with 11 billion people.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Yeah... the more I look at the moons, I don't really see how the ones on Image 1 are all different sizes. They look to all be 1 of 3 sizes to me... That was my first impression looking at the scans. It's a very interesting and original idea though, and there may be another angle on it. Eg, you could see the barred window as a grid hint and take an X and Y ordering rather than size and orbit...or use something like Litany order instead of Zodiac order as an extra step. In the first instance though, you'd need the "missing moon", and the likeliest candidates would seem to be Image 11, or the pearl "perfect as the silver moon". (The original theory may be right for all I know, but I'd need a bit more convincing. Egbert's lunar size chart would be a good start...)

wk i like the moon idea, not sure i totaly understand it why 2 left to rights, as L to R is clockwise you say smallest to large, left to right:................. 1 8 11 5 4 12 7 6 3 10 2 clockwise left to right:.... 8 1 11 5 4 12 7 3 10 6 2 i like the size chart to, it would be..... concentric circles have different radii and same centre, they are at the same distance apart all the way around and they fit inside each other. like this http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-soF5nHoFXsA/U ... cles_v.jpg

Perhaps consider the pearl as the 12th moon?

...or pearl as the centre of rotation... Distance from the centre of rotation could be another way to form a sequence. A distance in time and space.

Just tried looking at the dragon's eye as a centre, with the pearl as the 12th moon and distance to give a sequence. Guess that's ruled out anyway. Some of the distances look very similar and one of the lines passes pretty much through the middle of the pearl to the middle of a moon. Next...

Nobody spotted the deliberate mistake about the image 11 moon. It is not on the front cover. I tried to show my reasoning and workings but maybe that was too confusing. Actually, I have all the objects plotted on a circle divided into 12 like a clock or zodiac so I may have confused you with the zodiac reference. Quite simply, if you have a table or spreadsheet with the months 1 to 12 across the top as columns then a row containing image numbers, and another row containing the verse numbers then the moon order that I found confirms the order of the verses and the images. So the month number is the key and we have now found a use for that sequence. I have not yet tried my other sequences from the LOTJ yet. I think they may figure in some larger logic puzzle. Most of us were undecided about some of the verse pairing and this "moon order" now allows us to fill in the correct verse number. This post should really be on its own topic or the methodology thread since people have been trying for over 30 years to find a relationship between the images and verses. This is one of them. (11256)

Here are six moons cut from the standard high-res scans. I guess putting the 11 in size order might be just about possible, though I wouldn't say it was obvious. The order round the arc depends where you measure from, and the window seems a bit arbitrary. Then there's the "missing moon", and deciding where it fits... I like the idea, I'm just not quite convinced yet.

Unknown: Re: image 1 Postby wk » July 24, 2014, 08:58:35 AM Nobody spotted the deliberate mistake about the image 11 moon. It is not on the front cover. I tried to show my reasoning and workings but maybe that was too confusing. Actually, I have all the objects plotted on a circle divided into 12 like a clock or zodiac so I may have confused you with the zodiac reference. wk i dont understand why it was a "deliberate mistake", not trying to cut your work down but...... the best way to confirm your work is to give all your work in its entirety, imgs, graphs, theory, ect. and let us plow through it, i think your on to something, its just very hard for me, to visualize and interpret, what youve said so far. i am trying, if i can get what i think is close to your theory, ill put it up, im sure others are too, so you may be right, the moons prob needs its own thread

wk wrote:: then the moon order that I found confirms the order of the verses and the images. ? Still not clear on how you got the moon order, if you cant actually put the moons in a particular order of size. Then you how do you jump to an order that works?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: ...or pearl as the centre of rotation... Distance from the centre of rotation could be another way to form a sequence. A distance in time and space. From three who lived there? On a serious note, I can't say I 100% understand the methodology as described, but the verse pairings were a partial inspiration for me to post what I did in the V2 thread.

wk wrote:: Nobody spotted the deliberate mistake about the image 11 moon. It is not on the front cover. I tried to show my reasoning and workings but maybe that was too confusing. Actually, I have all the objects plotted on a circle divided into 12 like a clock or zodiac so I may have confused you with the zodiac reference. Quite simply, if you have a table or spreadsheet with the months 1 to 12 across the top as columns then a row containing image numbers, and another row containing the verse numbers then the moon order that I found confirms the order of the verses and the images. So the month number is the key and we have now found a use for that sequence. I have not yet tried my other sequences from the LOTJ yet. I think they may figure in some larger logic puzzle. Most of us were undecided about some of the verse pairing and this "moon order" now allows us to fill in the correct verse number. This post should really be on its own topic or the methodology thread since people have been trying for over 30 years to find a relationship between the images and verses. This is one of them. (11256) I've always assumed that the moon and star in image 11 were removed from the front cover to make room for the book's title. I don't think there's any need to draw further conclusions. Yes, finding a master system for pairing images and verses would be huge. Many proposed methods for doing this involve just what you're doing here: use some element of the book to derive an out-of-order sequence of the numbers 1 through 12, line these up with images or verses, and then order the sequence. This assumes that either the images or verses are already in their proper order, so that rearranging the other set will put things right. I don't even want to contemplate the gymnastics required if both images and verses require independent reordering. As far as candidates for a master reordering system go, I'd say the months indicated by the various birthstones are the most accessible, but that doesn't give a result consistent with the two solved pairings we already have. Same goes for an ordering using the Litany of Jewels or the map. So now we have to look further afield for a sequence, if there is one. At this point, we're faced with many possible ordering systems that get into esoteric territory. In order to judge any one of these, I'd ask the following questions: 1) Does it result in the two solved image/verse pairings? 2) Can the method be figured out without prior knowledge of the two known pairings? In other words, does the method need to be reverse-engineered or can it be reached using clear patterns or clues in the book? 3) What makes this ordering method more valid than a different, equally esoteric, method? Ideally, applying the correct ordering method would result in a confirming text or image, so that in addition to a list of numbers, you get an "aha!" moment. Barring this, is there a recurrence of the same sequence elsewhere in the book? 4) Can the method be applied without using computer tools such as photo editing software? The idea of the moons unlocking the image/verse pairings is compelling because they appear in the first image, have not yet been otherwise explained, and do vary in size. However, as others have noted, the precise size distinctions are difficult to judge. More troubling to me is the way you have reverse-engineered elements of your method to satisfy question 1 above. I don't see anything elsewhere in the book that tells me to use your ordering of the moons instead of a different one (right to left, counter - clockwise , top to bottom, etc.) Only by partially knowing the result you want can you judge the way you've ordered the moons to be the correct one. And at the end, we're left with a series of 12 numbers no different than any other; there is no confirmer other than the two known pairings, and some others about which we have varying degrees of confidence. Take the method of drawing lines in Masquerade as a counterexample: if you start drawing lines from fingers through eyes in the proper order, you don't just get an arbitrary sequence of letters, you get a meaningful series of words. Without a clear instruction somewhere in The Secret to order the moons your way, how could a puzzler without benefit of the two solved casques know that the resulting pairings are more valid than image 1/verse 1, image 2/verse 2, etc.?

wk wrote:: Nobody spotted the deliberate mistake about the image 11 moon. It is not on the front cover. I tried to show my reasoning and workings but maybe that was too confusing. Actually, I have all the objects plotted on a circle divided into 12 like a clock or zodiac so I may have confused you with the zodiac reference. Quite simply, if you have a table or spreadsheet with the months 1 to 12 across the top as columns then a row containing image numbers, and another row containing the verse numbers then the moon order that I found confirms the order of the verses and the images. So the month number is the key and we have now found a use for that sequence. I have not yet tried my other sequences from the LOTJ yet. I think they may figure in some larger logic puzzle. Most of us were undecided about some of the verse pairing and this "moon order" now allows us to fill in the correct verse number. This post should really be on its own topic or the methodology thread since people have been trying for over 30 years to find a relationship between the images and verses. This is one of them. (11256) I've always assumed that the moon and star in image 11 were removed from the front cover to make room for the book's title. I don't think there's any need to draw further conclusions. Yes, finding a master system for pairing images and verses would be huge. Many proposed methods for doing this involve just what you're doing here: use some element of the book to derive an out-of-order sequence of the numbers 1 through 12, line these up with images or verses, and then order the sequence. This assumes that either the images or verses are already in their proper order, so that rearranging the other set will put things right. I don't even want to contemplate the gymnastics required if both images and verses require independent reordering. As far as candidates for a master reordering system go, I'd say the months indicated by the various birthstones are the most accessible, but that doesn't give a result consistent with the two solved pairings we already have. Same goes for an ordering using the Litany of Jewels or the map. So now we have to look further afield for a sequence, if there is one. At this point, we're faced with many possible ordering systems that get into esoteric territory. In order to judge any one of these, I'd ask the following questions: 1) Does it result in the two solved image/verse pairings? 2) Can the method be figured out without prior knowledge of the two known pairings? In other words, does the method need to be reverse-engineered or can it be reached using clear patterns or clues in the book? 3) What makes this ordering method more valid than a different, equally esoteric, method? Ideally, applying the correct ordering method would result in a confirming text or image, so that in addition to a list of numbers, you get an "aha!" moment. Barring this, is there a recurrence of the same sequence elsewhere in the book? 4) Can the method be applied without using computer tools such as photo editing software? The idea of the moons unlocking the image/verse pairings is compelling because they appear in the first image, have not yet been otherwise explained, and do vary in size. However, as others have noted, the precise size distinctions are difficult to judge. More troubling to me is the way you have reverse-engineered elements of your method to satisfy question 1 above. I don't see anything elsewhere in the book that tells me to use your ordering of the moons instead of a different one (right to left, counter-clockwise, top to bottom, etc.) Only by partially knowing the result you want can you judge the way you've ordered the moons to be the correct one. And at the end, we're left with a series of 12 numbers no different than any other; there is no confirmer other than the two known pairings, and some others about which we have varying degrees of confidence. Take the method of drawing lines in Masquerade as a counterexample: if you start drawing lines from fingers through eyes in the proper order, you don't just get an arbitrary sequence of letters, you get a meaningful series of words. Without a clear instruction somewhere in The Secret to order the moons your way, how could a puzzler without benefit of the two solved casques know that the resulting pairings are more valid than image 1/verse 1, image 2/verse 2, etc.?

Moon order The verse order is 11 8 4 5 12 7 1 3 9 2 10 6 The moon sizes in orbit in image 1 are 11 8 4 5 12 7 - 3 - 2 10 6 To complete the puzzle sequence, moon size 1 and 9 need to be in the correct place. This is achieved by using the moon and star with halo on image 11. The star itself is size 1 and is in the correct place. The markings around the stone show how much to turn clockwise to get the size 9 halo in place. IT EVEN HAS A NINE CARVED ONTO THE STONE. (11294)

Moon order The verse order is 11 8 4 5 12 7 1 3 9 2 10 6 The moon sizes in orbit in image 1 are 11 8 4 5 12 7 - 3 - 2 10 6 To complete the puzzle sequence, moon size 1 and 9 need to be in the correct place. This is achieved by using the moon and star with halo on image 11. The star itself is size 1 and is in the correct place. The markings around the stone show how much to turn clockwise to get the size 9 halo in place. IT EVEN HAS A NINE CARVED ONTO THE STONE. (11294)

Treetops, Good post. Yes, I am aware that I am working in reverse and that is why I see it as a confirmation.

I really want this to work, wk! So, wk, it appears that you are ignoring the moon all the way to the left of image 1, correct? If so, what tells us to do that? If we are only using 10 moons from image 1, then are we using both the moon and the star from image 11 to get Moons 1 and 9? Or, is Moon 1 the star and Moon 9 simply the number 9 in Image 11? One additional question: The beginning of your sequence is 11-8-4. That means you are taking the big moon on the left as Moon 11, then moving to the LEFT to get Moon 8, then moving back to the RIGHT through Moon 11 to hit Moon 4. Is that right? If so, what does "orbit" have to do with that? Thanks!

wk, why did you use the moon, in img 11, and not imgs- 3,or 7, as the missing # size 9, in the sequence small to large 1 thru 12 moons maybe you stated why and i missed it

Treetops, excellent post. Keep in mind the aquamarine shouldve ben Clevelands reward. Something whiterabbit mentioned once that really interested me was a marriage chart that attempts to connect two different fair folk cultures by way of hands on a clock style arrangement. For example, Greece at number 4 and Germany at number 10. I dont know that it should mean a string correlation, because I dont see anything German in theV4 or P4, but the focus on a birch does come i to play in the Milwaukee setting. Hmm. Try Cathay at 6 o'clock and Russia at 12 o'clock...or Old Italy at 5 o'clock and Ireland at 11 o'clock. Each marriage offers a little cross cultural referencing. Certainly we think of V3/P11 as involved with a Greek component but there is also something to consider with the proximity of Rome to the setting of the Peloponnesian War... I havent toyed with this in awhile, and I forget if it made any difference to fixing the pairings.

Egbert wrote:: I really want this to work, wk! So, wk, it appears that you are ignoring the moon all the way to the left of image 1, correct? If so, what tells us to do that? Unknown: If we are only using 10 moons from image 1, then are we using both the moon and the star from image 11 to get Moons 1 and 9? Or, is Moon 1 the star and Moon 9 simply the number 9 in Image 11? Unknown: One additional question: The beginning of your sequence is 11-8-4. That means you are taking the big moon on the left as Moon 11, then moving to the LEFT to get Moon 8, then moving back to the RIGHT through Moon 11 to hit Moon 4. Is that right? If so, what does "orbit" have to do with that? not solved that yet The star is size 1 but the halo around the star is size 9. I am currently trying to illustrate the moving of the halo atm. The moons have different size orbits so moon 4 is nearer the centre. also the size of a moon is no indication of its distance from you.

cw0909 wrote:: wk, why did you use the moon, in img 11, and not imgs- 3,or 7, as the missing # size 9, in the sequence small to large 1 thru 12 moons maybe you stated why and i missed it The halo around the star is the correct size 9. It says 9 carved above it.

erexere wrote:: Treetops, excellent post. Keep in mind the aquamarine shouldve ben Clevelands reward. Something whiterabbit mentioned once that really interested me was a marriage chart that attempts to connect two different fair folk cultures by way of hands on a clock style arrangement. For example, Greece at number 4 and Germany at number 10. I dont know that it should mean a string correlation, because I dont see anything German in theV4 or P4, but the focus on a birch does come i to play in the Milwaukee setting. Hmm. Try Cathay at 6 o'clock and Russia at 12 o'clock...or Old Italy at 5 o'clock and Ireland at 11 o'clock. Each marriage offers a little cross cultural referencing. Certainly we think of V3/P11 as involved with a Greek component but there is also something to consider with the proximity of Rome to the setting of the Peloponnesian War... I havent toyed with this in awhile, and I forget if it made any difference to fixing the pairings. Another idea I had was to mark the voyage of the folk in a similar way to what you describe. Then I read that you did not need to have the items on a clock but instead repeat the sequence horizontally. Check out modulus arithmetic.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: There are similar features in images 1 & 11: (11 moons in image 1, 1 moon in image 11) I was just browsing through the archives and I came across this interesting post that WhiteRabbit put up almost exactly four years ago: Yes, indeed, those are similar features! But WR left out what might be the most important one. Remember our friend Horace Walpole, who said "there will, perhaps, be a Thucydides at Boston"? There's some resemblance between his house, Strawberry Hill, and the design on the box the Image 11 woman is holding: It's not a perfect match, but the two structures are certainly similar. And, if we accept that the front of the dress in Image 1 is Golden Gate Park and the crossed arms are Crossover Drive, then the circle directly below the crossed arms would be Stow Lake, right? From Stow Lake one has a nice view of the Sutro Tower ("Not far away / High posts are three"): So what's the name of the island in the middle of Stow Lake? You guessed it: Strawberry Hill . Just a coincidence? Maybe. But it is kind of interesting that both images have a Strawberry Hill in almost exactly the same place. And it's also kind of interesting that Image 1 has a Chinese theme and the Strawberry Hill in Golden Gate Park has a Chinese Pavilion that was given to the city of San Francisco in 1976 and dedicated in 1981. Not convinced? Try this on for size. A few steps away from the Chinese Pavilion on Strawberry Hill, there's an artificial waterfall called Huntington Falls. And there's quite a striking similarity between the vertical, rounded stones of Huntington Falls and the stonework in Image 1: Still have some doubts? Then how about one last fact: From the Chinese Pavilion to the top of Huntington Falls, there is a long, steep staircase ("giant step") with a long, metal handrail running along it ("giant pole"). At the top of the stairs, the handrail ends in a spiral very similar to the spiral shown in the stem of the rose in Image 1: "Giant pole / Giant step / To the place / The casque is kept." Hmm...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: There are similar features in images 1 & 11: (11 moons in image 1, 1 moon in image 11) I was just browsing through the archives and I came across this interesting post that WhiteRabbit put up almost exactly four years ago: Yes, indeed, those are similar features! But WR left out what might be the most important one. Remember our friend Horace Walpole, who said "there will, perhaps, be a Thucydides at Boston"? There's some resemblance between his house, Strawberry Hill, and the design on the box the Image 11 woman is holding: It's not a perfect match, but the two structures are certainly similar. And, if we accept that the front of the dress in Image 1 is Golden Gate Park and the crossed arms are Crossover Drive, then the circle directly below the crossed arms would be Stow Lake, right? From Stow Lake one has a nice view of the Sutro Tower ("Not far away / High posts are three"): So what's the name of the island in the middle of Stow Lake? You guessed it: Strawberry Hill . Just a coincidence? Maybe. But it is kind of interesting that both images have a Strawberry Hill in almost exactly the same place. And it's also kind of interesting that Image 1 has a Chinese theme and the Strawberry Hill in Golden Gate Park has a Chinese Pavilion that was given to the city of San Francisco in 1976 and dedicated in 1981. Not convinced? Try this on for size. A few steps away from the Chinese Pavilion on Strawberry Hill, there's an artificial waterfall called Huntington Falls. And there's quite a striking similarity between the vertical, rounded stones of Huntington Falls and the stonework in Image 1: Still have some doubts? Then how about one last fact: From the Chinese Pavilion to the top of Huntington Falls, there is a long, steep staircase ("giant step") with a long, metal handrail running along it ("giant pole"). At the top of the stairs, the handrail ends in a spiral very similar to the spiral shown in the stem of the rose in Image 1: "Giant pole / Giant step / To the place / The casque is kept." Hmm...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: There are similar features in images 1 & 11: (11 moons in image 1, 1 moon in image 11) I was just browsing through the archives and I came across this interesting post that WhiteRabbit put up almost exactly four years ago: Yes, indeed, those are similar features! But WR left out what might be the most important one. Remember our friend Horace Walpole, who said "there will, perhaps, be a Thucydides at Boston"? There's some resemblance between his house, Strawberry Hill, and the design on the box the Image 11 woman is holding: It's not a perfect match, but the two structures are certainly similar. And, if we accept that the front of the dress in Image 1 is Golden Gate Park and the crossed arms are Crossover Drive, then the circle directly below the crossed arms would be Stow Lake, right? From Stow Lake one has a nice view of the Sutro Tower ("Not far away / High posts are three"): So what's the name of the island in the middle of Stow Lake? You guessed it: Strawberry Hill . Just a coincidence? Maybe. But it is kind of interesting that both images have a Strawberry Hill in almost exactly the same place. And it's also kind of interesting that Image 1 has a Chinese theme and the Strawberry Hill in Golden Gate Park has a Chinese Pavilion that was given to the city of San Francisco in 1976 and dedicated in 1981. Not convinced? Try this on for size. A few steps away from the Chinese Pavilion on Strawberry Hill, there's an artificial waterfall called Huntington Falls. And there's quite a striking similarity between the vertical, rounded stones of Huntington Falls and the stonework in Image 1: Still have some doubts? Then how about one last fact: From the Chinese Pavilion to the top of Huntington Falls, there is a long, steep staircase ("giant step") with a long, metal handrail running along it ("giant pole"). At the top of the stairs, the handrail ends in a spiral very similar to the spiral shown in the stem of the rose in Image 1: "Giant pole / Giant step / To the place / The casque is kept." Hmm...

Image 1 - June - Pearl - Historic / Founded June 13, 1776. Fort built at Golden Gate - St. Francis of Assisi.

Oregonian wrote:: "Giant pole / Giant step / To the place / The casque is kept." Hmm... I like the Falls. I like the spiral at the end of the handrail. My question is: where to dig? If one takes the "giant step(s)" to "the place", is there something at the top or bottom of interest?

catherwood wrote:: I like the Falls. I like the spiral at the end of the handrail. My question is: where to dig? If one takes the "giant step(s)" to "the place", is there something at the top or bottom of interest? I'd say the "giant step" is the staircase to the top of the falls and the "giant pole" is the railing. If I were in San Francisco, I'd be poking around at the top of that handrail, directly under the spiral.

I've looked at Huntington Falls before, but I like your analysis, so I'll likely head back there again, maybe this Thursday. For the first time, I'm looking at that "map" of GGP on her robe, and wondering if the spacing of the characters along the edges is intended to indicate that the portion of the map above her folded arms has been compressed vertically, while the area below the arms is at a different scale. That would account for the fact that the proportions of the rectangular shape aren't correct for GGP, which has always bugged me. What is the source for your photo of the spiral end of the railing? My recollection is that the railing on that staircase has been a plain green pole for some time, though I don't know when it was replaced.

I've looked at Huntington Falls before, but I like your analysis, so I'll likely head back there again, maybe this Thursday. For the first time, I'm looking at that "map" of GGP on her robe, and wondering if the spacing of the characters along the edges is intended to indicate that the portion of the map above her folded arms has been compressed vertically, while the area below the arms is at a different scale. That would account for the fact that the proportions of the rectangular shape aren't correct for GGP, which has always bugged me. What is the source for your photo of the spiral end of the railing? My recollection is that the railing on that staircase has been a plain green pole for some time, though I don't know when it was replaced.

treetops wrote:: What is the source for your photo of the spiral end of the railing? My recollection is that the railing on that staircase has been a plain green pole for some time, though I don't know when it was replaced. The photo comes from a user on Flickr and was taken in 2010. I've tried contacting the photographer to get more information, but I haven't received a response. If the spiral is still there, it shouldn't be hard to find. It must be somewhere along that staircase up Huntington Falls. Re: the dress. Yes, I'm sure that the crossed arms represent Crossover Drive (Highway 1) and the neckline represents Great Highway. The compression between the neckline and the arms essentially means "ignore this area." (And that, of course, is the area where "Goddess of the Forest" once stood.) The layout of the dress leaves us looking at an area between Highway 1 and Stanyan Street. I assume that the symbols around the map represent various landmarks in those locations. Unfortunately, many of them may be logos of businesses that are long gone. But we still have plenty of evidence to narrow the search to Strawberry Hill and the Chinese Pavilion. If you get over to the park this week, please PLEASE take very clear pictures of all the Chinese symbols on display at the pavilion. I'd be willing to bet a large box of Ghirardelli chocolates that a translation of one of the pillars will produce something along the lines of "Education and Justice / For all to see."

treetops wrote:: What is the source for your photo of the spiral end of the railing? My recollection is that the railing on that staircase has been a plain green pole for some time, though I don't know when it was replaced. The photo comes from a user on Flickr and was taken in 2010. I've tried contacting the photographer to get more information, but I haven't received a response. If the spiral is still there, it shouldn't be hard to find. It must be somewhere along that staircase up Huntington Falls. Re: the dress. Yes, I'm sure that the crossed arms represent Crossover Drive (Highway 1) and the neckline represents Great Highway. The compression between the neckline and the arms essentially means "ignore this area." (And that, of course, is the area where "Goddess of the Forest" once stood.) The layout of the dress leaves us looking at an area between Highway 1 and Stanyan Street. I assume that the symbols around the map represent various landmarks in those locations. Unfortunately, many of them may be logos of businesses that are long gone. But we still have plenty of evidence to narrow the search to Strawberry Hill and the Chinese Pavilion. If you get over to the park this week, please PLEASE take very clear pictures of all the Chinese symbols on display at the pavilion. I'd be willing to bet a large box of Ghirardelli chocolates that a translation of one of the pillars will produce something along the lines of "Education and Justice / For all to see."

Oregonian wrote:: The photo comes from a user on Flickr and was taken in 2010. I've tried contacting the photographer to get more information, but I haven't received a response. If the spiral is still there, it shouldn't be hard to find. It must be somewhere along that staircase up Huntington Falls. Just an FYI - the railing "flower" cap is on the short railing leading up to the Japanese Garden (as opposed to the long railing leading from Huntington Falls).

Oregonian wrote:: The photo comes from a user on Flickr and was taken in 2010. I've tried contacting the photographer to get more information, but I haven't received a response. If the spiral is still there, it shouldn't be hard to find. It must be somewhere along that staircase up Huntington Falls. Just an FYI - the railing "flower" cap is on the short railing leading up to the Japanese Garden (as opposed to the long railing leading from Huntington Falls).

So if we suspect that the SF casque is in the Japanese Garden, and we have the Cleveland casque at the Greek Cultural Gardens, and Chicago was found behind Lincoln in the area of the Art institute gardens south off McCormick... "Flanking the original Art Institute of Chicago Building are gardens in the north and south McCormick Courtyards" - Wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grant_Park_(Chicago )#Gardens I see a pattern here....Just sayin...

I would say that BP's first choice in an area was a cultural gardens, and then a park with some cultural references, or at least an area heavy with culture of the area (and image). Otherwise, how about St. Augustine (FOY)? Or Charleston? Maybe we should move this to the Methodology thread...

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Just an FYI - the railing "flower" cap is on the short railing leading up to the Japanese Garden (as opposed to the long railing leading from Huntington Falls). Good to know! I'd say the "area of interest" in Golden Gate Park is shrinking quickly to an oval enclosing these points: the Garden of Shakespeare's Flowers ("stone wall's door"), Spreckels Temple of Music ("the air smells sweet"), the Japanese Garden (with the spiral railing), and Strawberry Hill. Of those, Spreckels Temple has the most obvious "giant pole" (a flagpole), but it's a heavy traffic area where it would have been hard to dig. Strawberry Hill has the advantage of being less formal and less visited. It also has the Chinese Pavilion (for the cultural connection to the casque) and it has Huntington Falls (for the visual connection to the image). Solving this one is probably going to require deciphering those symbols on the margin of the dress in Image 1.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Just an FYI - the railing "flower" cap is on the short railing leading up to the Japanese Garden (as opposed to the long railing leading from Huntington Falls). Good to know! I'd say the "area of interest" in Golden Gate Park is shrinking quickly to an oval enclosing these points: the Garden of Shakespeare's Flowers ("stone wall's door"), Spreckels Temple of Music ("the air smells sweet"), the Japanese Garden (with the spiral railing), and Strawberry Hill. Of those, Spreckels Temple has the most obvious "giant pole" (a flagpole), but it's a heavy traffic area where it would have been hard to dig. Strawberry Hill has the advantage of being less formal and less visited. It also has the Chinese Pavilion (for the cultural connection to the casque) and it has Huntington Falls (for the visual connection to the image). Solving this one is probably going to require deciphering those symbols on the margin of the dress in Image 1.

Oregonian wrote:: Good to know! I'd say the "area of interest" in Golden Gate Park is shrinking quickly to an oval enclosing these points: the Garden of Shakespeare's Flowers ("stone wall's door"), Spreckels Temple of Music ("the air smells sweet"), the Japanese Garden (with the spiral railing), and Strawberry Hill. Of those, Spreckels Temple has the most obvious "giant pole" (a flagpole), but it's a heavy traffic area where it would have been hard to dig. Strawberry Hill has the advantage of being less formal and less visited. It also has the Chinese Pavilion (for the cultural connection to the casque) and it has Huntington Falls (for the visual connection to the image). Solving this one is probably going to require deciphering those symbols on the margin of the dress in Image 1. Don't forget Drake's Cross

Oregonian wrote:: Good to know! I'd say the "area of interest" in Golden Gate Park is shrinking quickly to an oval enclosing these points: the Garden of Shakespeare's Flowers ("stone wall's door"), Spreckels Temple of Music ("the air smells sweet"), the Japanese Garden (with the spiral railing), and Strawberry Hill. Of those, Spreckels Temple has the most obvious "giant pole" (a flagpole), but it's a heavy traffic area where it would have been hard to dig. Strawberry Hill has the advantage of being less formal and less visited. It also has the Chinese Pavilion (for the cultural connection to the casque) and it has Huntington Falls (for the visual connection to the image). Solving this one is probably going to require deciphering those symbols on the margin of the dress in Image 1. Don't forget Drake's Cross

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Don't forget Drake's Cross It's always a possibility, of course, but I wouldn't personally include that location in my oval. I'm fairly confident that the casque is somewhere along a straight line running right through the park. It's no further west than the top of Strawberry Hill and it's no further east than the Shakespeare garden. It might not be right at the Chinese Pavilion, but it's not very far away. Can you tell us more precisely where that spiral railing is located? You said that it's "on the short railing leading up to the Japanese Garden." Is that at the crosswalk where Stow Lake Drive makes a hairpin curve, or is there another path up? That photo is tagged with "Taipei Pavilion," "Stow Lake," and "Strawberry Hill," so it can't be far away.

I believe that shorter staircase runs downhill from the NE corner of Stow Lake towards the Japanese Tea Garden's exit. There is a fairly straight line connecting Tea Garden, staircase, and Huntington Falls. The Chinese Pavilion is a bit to the south of the falls. So yes, it's at the hairpin turn you describe.

I believe that shorter staircase runs downhill from the NE corner of Stow Lake towards the Japanese Tea Garden's exit. There is a fairly straight line connecting Tea Garden, staircase, and Huntington Falls. The Chinese Pavilion is a bit to the south of the falls. So yes, it's at the hairpin turn you describe.

I'm taking back my statement about the robe not matching the proportions of GGP. When I overlay a map of the park, it's a perfect fit. However, when you do this, her arms are not at Crossover Drive; they're at Sunset Blvd. And the shape you're matching with Stow Lake is actually where the Polo Field is. It's the smaller "island" further down the robe that's closer to the Stow Lake area.

treetops wrote:: I'm taking back my statement about the robe not matching the proportions of GGP. When I overlay a map of the park, it's a perfect fit. However, when you do this, her arms are not at Crossover Drive; they're at Sunset Blvd. Right. Everything west of Crossover Drive (from Crossover to Great Highway) has been compressed down to almost nothing in the dress map. The dress is just showing us Crossover to Stanyan, so you should try to line up those two endpoints. The blue circle below the woman's wrists will be Stow Lake. (See the graphic I posted earlier.) If you go to the park and take pictures of the pavilion on Thursday, be sure to keep track of which pillar you are photographing. If my hunch is correct, the Chinese symbols for Education and Justice are going to appear somewhere, and we'll need to keep track of where we need to be standing to keep them in view.

@ 1:20 is some of the handrail http://youtu.be/wjeseEdWH1Q?t=1m20s

Unknown: If the spiral is still there, it shouldn't be hard to find. It must be somewhere along that staircase up Huntington Falls. Very nicely done Oregonian. The spiral fits the line theory, although not as precisely as the Cleveland solve. But it's close enough. North of everything is Fulton Street. Robert Fulton equals steamboats, which were most certainly objects of Twain's attention. So I'd suggest north of the spiral is the best place to explore, probe, and eventually dig.

Unknown: If the spiral is still there, it shouldn't be hard to find. It must be somewhere along that staircase up Huntington Falls. Very nicely done Oregonian. The spiral fits the line theory, although not as precisely as the Cleveland solve. But it's close enough. North of everything is Fulton Street. Robert Fulton equals steamboats, which were most certainly objects of Twain's attention. So I'd suggest north of the spiral is the best place to explore, probe, and eventually dig.

Just got back from Stow Lake with a bunch of photos for everyone. You can click through to flickr for larger images. You might find a map of the Stow Lake area helpful. Here we go. This is the exit at the back of the Japanese Tea Garden: This is the view to the staircase in question, facing roughly SW from near the Tea Garden exit: The ornament at the bottom of the stairs: The view from the top of the stairs: Standing at the top ornament, facing roughly north: That path takes you right around the corner to this view of the NE-most point of Stow Lake. The Chinese Pavilion is visible from here, off behind some trees: Now, over by Huntington Falls, here's what that railing looks like: The view from one of the Falls bridges, looking back NE towards where we came from: Top of the Falls. From here we can see the dome and two towers of St. Ignatius Church, located on the USF campus: Back at the base of the Falls, it's a very short walk to the NW side of the Chinese Pavilion: Here's the April 15, 1981 dedication sign: It reads: --- The people of the City and County of San Francisco proudly accept this pavilion from the Honorable Teng Hui Lee, Mayor of our Sister City, Taipei, as a testament to the abiding friendship between the people of Taipei and San Francisco, on the Occasion of the Official dedication of the Golden Gate Pavilion. We are grateful for this treasured addition to Golden Gate Park [names] On behalf of the people of Taipei, I present this Golden Gate Pavilion to the people of San Francisco as a confirmation of friendship and cultural exchange between our sister cities and to comemorate the struggle and contributions of the early Chinese settlers in California. I extend our appreciation to the Honorable Dianne Feinstein, Mayor of San Francisco, the Board of Supervisors, City of San Francisco, Mr. Pius Lee, Chairman of the San Francisco-Taipei Sister City Committee, and the Chinese Community for their efforts and contributions toward the realization of this memorable gift. Honorable Teng-Hui Lee Mayor of Taipei, ROC --- Railing detail, entering the Pavilion: One of the dragon decorations: Sign over the entrance: This decoration is inside the Pavilion, behind the sign, and continues all the way around: Plaque mounted on the table at the center of the Pavilion: It reads: --- Two sister cities were made, side by side and hand in hand. Is peoples' well-being thus made. Residing in this wide world. Cooperating closely from our hearts. The universal brotherhood is thus made. A scenic spot in USA for ascending remained, easterly coming culture. A real friend can not by wanting in this wide world. A great ocean on ROC for crossing lain, westerly looking from Golden Gate. The world although so wide becomes as near as in the neighborhood. --- Here are the four columns that have writing on them: NW side, left: NW side, right: SE side, left: SE side, right: Translations anyone? One thought that occurred to me, and not for the first time, was that "Object of Twain's attention" can be interpreted as referring not to Mark Twain, but to the opening lines of Kipling's "Ballad of East and West", which would suit this memorial to east-west friendship.

Rock on, Treetops! Thank you for doing that. Those are great photos. I also like your idea about "East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet." Preiss capitalized "Twain," of course, but that could just be his sneakiness. A gift from a sister city in Asia is definitely a nice match for the twain giving their attention to the same thing. I assume that from the hairpin curve near the spiral railing one can see Huntington Falls. Did you happen to notice whether you could also see Sutro Tower from that spot?

Rock on, Treetops! Thank you for doing that. Those are great photos. I also like your idea about "East is East, and West is West, and never the twain shall meet." Preiss capitalized "Twain," of course, but that could just be his sneakiness. A gift from a sister city in Asia is definitely a nice match for the twain giving their attention to the same thing. I assume that from the hairpin curve near the spiral railing one can see Huntington Falls. Did you happen to notice whether you could also see Sutro Tower from that spot?

I fully expected to have a clear view of the Falls from the hairpin, so I was surprised when I discovered that that little island in the NE arm of the lake does a good job of obscuring it. On Sutro Tower: I've always been unhappy with this as a solution for "Not far away high posts are three", because it's clearly visible from many, many parts of the city. Referencing it as a locator just seems to say, "Hey, you're still in San Francisco." I also tend to read "Education and Justice for all to see" as further information about the "high posts", and I don't see a Sutro Tower connection to either. But yes, you have a nice view of it from all around the Stow Lake area.

I fully expected to have a clear view of the Falls from the hairpin, so I was surprised when I discovered that that little island in the NE arm of the lake does a good job of obscuring it. On Sutro Tower: I've always been unhappy with this as a solution for "Not far away high posts are three", because it's clearly visible from many, many parts of the city. Referencing it as a locator just seems to say, "Hey, you're still in San Francisco." I also tend to read "Education and Justice for all to see" as further information about the "high posts", and I don't see a Sutro Tower connection to either. But yes, you have a nice view of it from all around the Stow Lake area.

nice pics treetops thanks, what is at the bottom of the rail here https://www.flickr.com/photos/31515168@N00/15416550199/

Are you asking what's in the immediate vicinity of the bottom of the stairs? If you take a look at the photo previous to the one you're asking about, you can see there's a paved walk, with rocks and foliage on both sides making it difficult to explore off the path. Back down the path past the Tea Garden exit, you cross a small lawn to reach a street where cars can drive through the park. Across that street is the entrance to the massive Strybing Arboretum. Like many Arboretums, Strybing has areas representing different climes and countries. I've been to the Asian gardens there, which had some stone lamp sculptures bearing no resemblance to anything in Image 1.

A few more questions for you, Treetops: - Is there any other staircase in the park that has the metal spiral or is the one you photographed unique? - Am I correct in thinking that the railing with the two spirals runs down the middle of the staircase (so people can go up and down on either side of it)? - Do you happen to have a shot looking up the stairs or down the stairs in a way that shows the whole staircase? - If not, do you have an estimate for how many steps there were? Thanks for your help, as always!

No idea if there are other staircases in the park that have those ornaments. The thought even crossed my mind, "What if these ornaments used to be on a different railing and they moved them onto this one at some point?" Sorry I didn't take photographs of the whole staircase. Still, you can see it in the second photograph, the one with the guy looking at his phone. The railing runs down the middle and it looks like there are about 28-30 steps, broken up into to sections with a short flat stretch in the middle.

Excellent! Okay, here's my thought: I think we are looking for a place on the eastern edge of Stow Lake where one can see (or almost see): Sutro Tower, Strawberry Hill, Huntington Falls, the Chinese pavilion, and a green spiral like the one at the end of the rose stem. (I'm going to allow a bit of flexibility on the view, if trees are in the way, because it's been 30 years and things may have grown up a bit.) From everything we've heard, it appears that there's only one handrail in the park that has the spiral. And from the way the metal on the spiral is weathered and worn, I'm willing to assume that it's been in existence for at least 30 years. There's always a chance it was moved, of course, but I can't imagine why it would be. They must have always needed a handrail at that spot, and the pole seems custom-made for it. So that's our handrail ("giant pole") going up the stairway ("giant step"). And from the photo that Treetops posted, I think we can rule out the spiral at the bottom. There's no view of anything from there. So we're looking at the spiral at the top of the stairs. Now what? Let's take a look at the two sleeves on the dress: Each sleeve of the woman's dress is decorated with two columns of blue squares. The columns start very sharply and cleanly at the top with complete squares but fade away into shadows at the bottom, indicating perhaps that we are only supposed to be doing a precise count from one end. The woman's left index finger is upside-down and pointing at the lower edge of the fourth row of blocks. The woman's right index finger is right-side-up and pointing at the upper edge of the fourth row of blocks. Taken together, the fingers seem to be indicating a range: No higher than the top of the fourth row and no lower than the bottom of the fourth row. The structure of each pattern, with two columns of blocks going up and down, might represent a stairway with a handrail going up the middle. If we are being instructed to count from the top, it might be saying that we should focus our attention within the range of the fourth step. That would still leave us with two sides of the stairway for digging, of course, but maybe that's the point of this line: "In jewel's direction / Is an object / Of Twain's attention" Unfortunately, I still don't know what "object" that would be. (Wouldn't it be great if the woods beside the stairway once had a small sculpture of a jumping frog? A guy can dream.) So... If anyone in San Francisco feels like visiting the park this weekend, please take a camera and show us what the ground is like on either side of that fourth step.

Excellent! Okay, here's my thought: I think we are looking for a place on the eastern edge of Stow Lake where one can see (or almost see): Sutro Tower, Strawberry Hill, Huntington Falls, the Chinese pavilion, and a green spiral like the one at the end of the rose stem. (I'm going to allow a bit of flexibility on the view, if trees are in the way, because it's been 30 years and things may have grown up a bit.) From everything we've heard, it appears that there's only one handrail in the park that has the spiral. And from the way the metal on the spiral is weathered and worn, I'm willing to assume that it's been in existence for at least 30 years. There's always a chance it was moved, of course, but I can't imagine why it would be. They must have always needed a handrail at that spot, and the pole seems custom-made for it. So that's our handrail ("giant pole") going up the stairway ("giant step"). And from the photo that Treetops posted, I think we can rule out the spiral at the bottom. There's no view of anything from there. So we're looking at the spiral at the top of the stairs. Now what? Let's take a look at the two sleeves on the dress: Each sleeve of the woman's dress is decorated with two columns of blue squares. The columns start very sharply and cleanly at the top with complete squares but fade away into shadows at the bottom, indicating perhaps that we are only supposed to be doing a precise count from one end. The woman's left index finger is upside-down and pointing at the lower edge of the fourth row of blocks. The woman's right index finger is right-side-up and pointing at the upper edge of the fourth row of blocks. Taken together, the fingers seem to be indicating a range: No higher than the top of the fourth row and no lower than the bottom of the fourth row. The structure of each pattern, with two columns of blocks going up and down, might represent a stairway with a handrail going up the middle. If we are being instructed to count from the top, it might be saying that we should focus our attention within the range of the fourth step. That would still leave us with two sides of the stairway for digging, of course, but maybe that's the point of this line: "In jewel's direction / Is an object / Of Twain's attention" Unfortunately, I still don't know what "object" that would be. (Wouldn't it be great if the woods beside the stairway once had a small sculpture of a jumping frog? A guy can dream.) So... If anyone in San Francisco feels like visiting the park this weekend, please take a camera and show us what the ground is like on either side of that fourth step.

Unknown: That would still leave us with two sides of the stairway for digging Line theory suggests the north side: So does the verse if you accept the Fulton/Twain connection. If I were probing, I would allow at least 18 to 24" on either side of the staircase for the foundation, and assume that anything that I hit in that area is going to be part of the staircase construction. If the casque is still there, it's probably 2-4 feet from the edge of the staircase. So, while I had my doubts, it would appear that Oregonian has narrowed down the dig spot to an area no bigger than 3-5 square feet. Impressive. Still unsure how the first few lines of the verse lead you to this area, but the visual clues are pretty hard to ignore.

Ugh, I totally walked up that staircase when I was there in May, months before I had even heard of this treasure hunt. I just looked through my photos of my trip and sadly didn't get any of this staircase. If I recall correctly, both sides of the staircase were lined with plants which would make digging difficult. I assume that much hasn't changed since the 80's either, but I could be wrong. This photo from treetops kind of shows the stair I believe you guys have narrowed down for a possible dig spot: https://www.flickr.com/photos/31515168@ ... otostream/ . I like where this is headed, I just think digging along those staircases, as best as I can remember them, will be difficult without removing a bunch of plants. Near the entrance of the tea garden (just down the hill from the staircase) is this object, which somewhat resembles the leg of the table the flower is sitting on (admittedly not as close in proximity or resemblance as I'd like it to be): https://www.google.com/maps/place/Golde ... 68ef3ba730 .

I like that image match.

meatypuffs: I've looked at that stone "lantern" by the Tea Garden many times, hoping to find an angle from which it looks like the table base, or to find some detail on it that matches any element of the painting. No luck. The silhouette is actually closer to the generic lampposts found throughout Golden Gate Park, though still not a close enough match for an "aha" moment. Regarding the Japanese Tea Garden and its associated artworks in general, I really want to believe that Preiss took some care with the distinction between Chinese and Japanese icons here. Back to the Chinese Pavilion: Can someone refresh my memory as to when exactly Preiss was visiting sites to plan the book? If the Pavilion was dedicated in April, 1981, and The Secret was published in November of 1982, it would have been quite a new landmark if he was there. If he planned things out very far in advance however, it's no longer a candidate for being part of the San Francisco hunt. And yes, your recollections about the area around the stairway match my observations the other day.

meatypuffs wrote:: Near the entrance of the tea garden (just down the hill from the staircase) is this object, which somewhat resembles the leg of the table the flower is sitting on (admittedly not as close in proximity or resemblance as I'd like it to be): https://www.google.com/maps/place/Golde ... 68ef3ba730 . If we're thinking the table leg is a lantern (several in the past have thought lantern or light post), there are additional lanterns inside the tea garden itself, some of which may be visible from this staircase (I seem to recall the staircase overlooking much of the Japanese Tea Garden, someone on foot in SF could likely confirm). Several can be seen on this page for reference: http://www.san-francisco-travel-secrets ... cisco.html

treetops wrote:: meatypuffs: I've looked at that stone "lantern" by the Tea Garden many times, hoping to find an angle from which it looks like the table base, or to find some detail on it that matches any element of the painting. No luck. The silhouette is actually closer to the generic lampposts found throughout Golden Gate Park, though still not a close enough match for an "aha" moment. Agreed, it's vague resemblance makes me uncomfortable for calling it, as you say, an "aha moment". However, one of the park's lanterns or one of the various ones in the Tea Garden (see my post a few minutes ago) may be another visual confirmation for the final digging location. That's such a beautiful area. I'm trying to plan another trip from Nebraska to visit. I hope this baby is dug up before then, though!

treetops wrote:: Back to the Chinese Pavilion: Can someone refresh my memory as to when exactly Preiss was visiting sites to plan the book? If the Pavilion was dedicated in April, 1981, and The Secret was published in November of 1982, it would have been quite a new landmark if he was there. If he planned things out very far in advance however, it's no longer a candidate for being part of the San Francisco hunt. Yeah, I've been meaning to post the history of that pavilion and I just haven't gotten around to it. The pavilion was a gift from San Francisco's sister city of Taipei, the capital of Taiwan. The pavilion wasn't officially dedicated until 1981, but it was actually given in 1976 to celebrate the U.S. bicentennial. Preiss had plenty of time to hear about it and see it being built. But here's the funny thing: This wasn't the only Chinese pavilion that Taipei gave to a U.S. city as a bicentennial gift. Remember "friendship south"? That's right. The other pavilion went to Houston, Texas and was put in Hermann Park. It's part of what people have been using for years now as a clue in Verse 1. Make of that what you will.

cool stuff. I'm liking the bicentennial stuff more an more.

Unknown: Can someone refresh my memory as to when exactly Preiss was visiting sites to plan the book? My best guess is that the San Francisco casque was put into the ground no later than the fall of 1981, or early winter of 1982. I seem to recall reading somewhere on this forum that his then girlfriend (and future wife) was in California at the time, so it's certainly possible that he scouted this one location during one of his earlier visits with her. But in general, I don't think he spent more than a day or two in each of the casque cities, nor do I think he scouted any of them in person in advance.

Great info Oregonian! Here's another slew of photos of that staircase, since there seems to be interest in more detail. (It certainly is nice living a short walk from Golden Gate Park.) I'm hoping these will convey just how little you can see from this staircase, surrounded by trees as it is. If there is a connection to image 1, it might just be that the spiral ornaments are something you see on your way to the treasure, kind of like the centaur statue in image 5. I also took a walk around the perimeter of Stow Lake, looking for another staircase like this. I couldn't find any comparable pedestrian exit from the area. The main way in and out on foot is around the boat rental building at the NW end of the lake. The top of the stairs, facing the south branch of the path: Looking down the stairs: View north, upper half of stairs: View south, upper half of stairs: Middle of stairs: View north, lower stairs: View south, lower stairs: Looking up from base: View north from the path, just east of the foot of the stairs: View south from the same vantage point: And here's what's around the other side of the trees in that last photo (the staircase runs parallel to the back of the bench, about 20 feet behind it).

Great work, Treetops! I feel reasonably certain that this is our stairway. When I listed those sights earlier, I didn't mean that you have to be able to see them from the exact spot of burial. If Preiss could see those things from the hairpin curve on Stow Lake Drive, that's good enough for me. It makes sense that he would then walk a little way down the path to have a more secluded spot for digging. The spiral on the railing is the confirmation that we're in the right place. My money is still on either side of that fourth step. I take it you didn't feel ready to do any probing today? The most important bit of info I found in your photos is that you aren't likely to do any harm by digging around there. The vine that appears on both sides of the stairs is English Ivy and it's a horrible invasive weed in the park. The managers would probably be grateful if you managed to kill some of it off. So I'd say it's time to start moving a little soil.

Why not the landing in the middle of the staircase as the "giant step"? That's one way of looking at it. I sure wish something in the vicinity sang out as "Object of Twain's attention." This verse seems so stingy compared to some of the others.

Unknown: This verse seems so stingy compared to some of the others. If you look at the Verse 7 Thread, you'll see that they had most of the verse figured out almost from the beginning. The problem seems to be that no one made the leap from "giant step" to "giant steps". For want of an "s", this thing might have been dug up 10 years ago, if in fact we are finally in the right place. But if we are, it's the Image that supports the solve. The verse is almost useless.

treetops wrote:: Why not the landing in the middle of the staircase as the "giant step"? That's one way of looking at it. I sure wish something in the vicinity sang out as "Object of Twain's attention." This verse seems so stingy compared to some of the others. Stingy indeed. "Seek columns for the search"..."fence and fixture"..."giant pole, giant step"...all seem like strong nudges when the right vicinity has been sleuthed. I strongly believe the big thought involved with "giant pole, giant step" is allusion to the moon landing for the purpose of signifying someting to do with either a flagpole, a reference to Apollo, or the number 11, since the Apollo 11 mission involved significant focus on placing a US flag on the moon and involved the memorable phrase "...one giant leap for mankind". How many orbs are counted in the sky above in image 1? Isnt it 11?

So... Is anyone thinking of actually digging on either side of that fourth step, or do I need to make a San Francisco trip?

Unknown: So... Is anyone thinking of actually digging on either side of that fourth step, or do I need to make a San Francisco trip? I'd be willing to bet the same box of chocolates that: 1) The area has already been scouted by someone other than treetops. 2) If it hasn't already been probed, someone is making plans to do so as I type this. 3) If it hasn't been done already, someone is planning a trip to the nearest Surplus Store to buy an entrenching tool so they can sneak a shovel into GGP, although personally, I hope that they will reach out to the proper authorities and do the dig legally. After 30+ years, it's very likely that we are no longer looking for a casque in a plexiglass box, but pieces of same (especially in the northern cities). A supervised dig is the best way to recover everything without imparting further damage, since it doesn't have to be done furtively. I'd also be willing to bet that lots of people are using your solve to re-examine some of the images in an effort to define the dig spot for a casque that they are able to dig up. I'll say it again; it is very impressive. I'm on the wrong coast for this one. But for what it's worth, I'm comfortable putting San Francisco in the same category (NLBTD*) as Milwaukee. *Nothing left but the diggin'.

I'm still struggling to see how these new ideas come together. Its all been very interesting but I haven't been in agreement on anything for certain, at least not to the extent that I'd recommend digging or probing. I don't think of the puzzle as a loose assemblage of pieces. Its a tightly wound piece of work and a very sharp treatment of the verse is whats needed. I might have said this before, the point of the line about an object of Twains attention has me leaning strongly towards something law based. Objection. I think the answer to the riddle is a "sentence" from a judge on his "bench". Twain's attention as a writer of sentences helps shape our approach to a physical bench.

Hello, I'm new so don't flame me if I say something out of line. Based on the symbols it seems like Shakespeare's garden is a good start. Once you enter the garden Running north but first across is a sundial on a pedestal . It looks like the pedestal in the picture. On top of the pedestal the quote is "count only the sunny days ". I was thinking after 6 it would be dark so it kinda matches the painting. There is a stone gate in Shakespeare garden. There are 6 panels on the sides of the door in the middle of the stone wall. Behind the door is a statue of Shakespeare. You need permission to open it. It would be Twains attention since twain wrote. "Is Shakespeare really dead ?" Roman numerals represent the chapters in Twains autobiography. Big roses bloom here. There's also a spiral on the bench in Shakespeare park. Dedicated to Alice. She was a botanist in SF. Actually a few symbols on that bench. I think the posts is sutro tower. There's also a silhouette of McKinley on the mountain in the picture. He's located at the end of the panhandle of GGP though. Plus it looks like Alcatraz bars in the picture. I know the Japanese flower garden is close to Shakespeare garden. It' seems to be a place of interest. The dragon is a Chinese dragon. The dragon will have a pearl over its head like the picture. It's also a strong yin/yang symbol as it represents the Dragon and Phoenix. The woman in the picture may be the Chinese moon goddess. Might explain the moon? Beautiful roses as well in the Japanese tea garden. Rainbow falls is interesting. There's the giant prayer book cross at the top. Orbs are said to be seen here. The moons in the painting? A column landmark is on the bottom of the falls. Strawberry hill is in the area to. It's in the middle of stow lake. A roman bridge connects you to the island. The path spirals around the mountain to the top where you see beautiful views of GGP. A Chinese pavilion is located here. Also ruins of an old observatory was on top strawberry hill. I still smells a bit like sweet strawberries. So many landmarks... It's hard to narrow down. If this info has already been posted, I'm sorry. Still getting use to navigating the site

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I'd be willing to bet the same box of chocolates that: 1) The area has already been scouted by someone other than treetops. 2) If it hasn't already been probed, someone is making plans to do so as I type this. 3) If it hasn't been done already, someone is planning a trip to the nearest Surplus Store to buy an entrenching tool so they can sneak a shovel into GGP, although personally, I hope that they will reach out to the proper authorities and do the dig legally. You may be right. (And I second your hope that people are doing things the proper way with permission from the authorities.) But it would be nice to get some confirmation that a casque retrieval is underway. Hey, San Francisco folks! Is anyone taking action to pursue the stairway-railing-fourth-step solution, or do I need to send out my own search party?

Oregonian, I still cant see how you're treating the verse as a whole. Does that essential portion of this theory exist in specific location or are you operating on a more loose and visual approach? I've seen a lot of great speculations, but I dont see how it comes together.

I'm not confident enough in this location to start digging around. I'm going to try and get over to the local history collection at the main library and see if I can't turn up some contemporary photos or plans of the area.

Unknown: I still cant see how you're treating the verse as a whole If we are in the right place, and I think the image confirmations are too good to ignore, then the verse is little more than one big site confirmer for the NE corner of GGP. All the elements are there, but so loosely constructed that you have no chance of finding the dig spot without the image.

Unknown: I'm not confident enough in this location to start digging around. Fair enough. But the next time you are there, would you mind looking at the place Oregonian has suggested to see if there is any evidence of others working the spot? The thread has had a significant number of views, and I have to believe that someone is confident enough in the solve to at least start poking around.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: the next time you are there, would you mind looking at the place Oregonian has suggested to see if there is any evidence of others working the spot? Yeah, I second that request! Because, if there's no signs of digging, Renovator owes all of us a big box of Ghirardelli chocolates!

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: If we are in the right place, and I think the image confirmations are too good to ignore, then the verse is little more than one big site confirmer for the NE corner of GGP. All the elements are there, but so loosely constructed that you have no chance of finding the dig spot without the image. GGP has been under the microscope many times for a long while now. It is a large area with many attractions, some of which have been heavily renovated. Finding the pearl of Far Cathay by loosely focusing on anything that resembles a giant step and pole isnt a bad way to start. Boots on the ground is the best/only way to narrow your search. I think the verse must be accurately applied at that point and not treated so lightly.

Unknown: I think the verse must be accurately applied at that point and not treated so lightly. Well, I did hedge by saying "little more". You need the verse to confirm that you are in the correct general area (rather loosely I might add), and you also need the verse to identify the treasure ground (giant pole, giant step). But you absolutely need the image to identify the dig spot. For this particular puzzle, the verse is significantly less important than the image (unlike say Milwaukee, where I believe the opposite is true).

Its all a case by case basis. I didn't mean to accuse anyone of ignoring the verse. I just wasn't seeing any strong verse correlation to what's being attributed to an image-matching approach. People have been working very hard, so respect and credit for all the exhaustive research and investigating. While I like the tea garden area and the visuals, I also have a hard time seeing how some visuals are being treated, such as the hG, which so strongly matches from a view near Russian Park. Something about recognizing Ghirardelli from that perspective tells me there's something important to recognize towards finding the casque. I'm not saying the casque has to be in or near Russian Park, but maybe there's something about chocolate or the letters themselves which produce a particular viewpoint in your candidate area of the Tea Garden. Chocolate chip cookies/fortune cookies? Maybe there's some association there. I'm banking on the fact that you can see Alcatraz from the Ghirardelli area and that seems to be visually represented in the background of the image with the prison bars. It's hard to decide which parts of the image might only be START visuals and which are END visuals (END being the treasure ground). Cleveland seemed to have most strongly END Visuals, while Chicago had BREADCRUMB visuals, but both had that faint sketching of lines that drew us closest to the casque when at the monolithic wall or the fence's arch. The table in image 1 looks to me like that kind of clue, so I want to think the casque is very close to some circular disk shaped thing, which is why the pool at the Palace of the Legion of Honor always seemed so compelling.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: But you absolutely need the image to identify the dig spot. For this particular puzzle, the verse is significantly less important than the image (unlike say Milwaukee, where I believe the opposite is true). I sincerely doubt that this verse image combination is formulated differently than the two found casques. Especially when there exists a solution for SF that exactly matches the methodology used in those. To be specific: Image- contains lat/lon of the main search area a starting point. an indication of which road to take to the treasure ground. Visual clues to indicate when you get to the treasure ground. specific images you see from the site of the casque. Verse contains the step by step directions from the general treasure ground to the casque. This is how chicago worked This is how cleveland worked and this is how SF works, with the unfortunate realization the casque is no longer accessible.

Oregonian wrote:: . They must have always needed a handrail at that spot, and the pole seems custom-made for it. So that's our handrail ("giant pole") going up the stairway ("giant step"). Let's take a look at the two sleeves on the dress: The woman's left index finger is upside-down and pointing at the lower edge of the fourth row of blocks. The woman's right index finger is right-side-up and pointing at the upper edge of the fourth row of blocks. Taken together, the fingers seem to be indicating a range: No higher than the top of the fourth row and no lower than the bottom of the fourth row. it might be saying that we should focus our attention within the range of the fourth step. There are sooo many problems with this theory. The first being a railing is not a pole. We have ad nauseum poured over BP's word choice and realized he was an incredible wordsmith. - He used pole, not rail not Bannister , handrail, support or balustrade. Railing doesnt fit. The next is the analysis of the fingers, with out a doubt the fingers point at two different places, yet this is resolved into 4 . they are blocks, if they looked like steps it would make sense. but they are blocks, they fingers point between blocks The fingers point at the third line and the 4th line between blocks. What's between blocks? Streets. : 3 4 Street Also without distorting the map, just overlaying for real, the fingers actually point to 34th street

Hey All! I just want to say I have dug many many times in Golden Gate Park. The people who are the groundskeepers of the parks are super friendly and always interested in the Hunt. I have never dug without permission and have never had any trouble getting permission. They are encouraging and helpful. (well to the point of offering a shovel, but not digging) They love to come out and watch (and comment, LOL ) So if you're are planning a dig, make contact with them rather than trying to sneak in, get caught and ruin it for the rest of us.

For those who were interested, I was by that staircase last Sunday, and saw no signs that anyone had been digging or poking around in the ivy on either side.

@ Oregonian I really love the work you are doing to the secret wiki, it had been languishing for ages. On the other hand, deleting anybodies entries but your's kind of defeats the purpose of a wiki. MaltedFalcon.

Oregonian.... I would also ask that you not include any PDF copies of the book on the wiki, regardless of their completeness. The documents were created illegally and the person who made them is not too keen on there dispersion. Especially when they are PDFs created with pirated Adobe software, and the data on the files allows for the creator to be identified. The creator might also have intended the file(s) to be used by those in a small group that already owned the book, and not the general public. You feel me? TIA.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Oregonian.... I would also ask that you not include any PDF copies of the book on the wiki, regardless of their completeness. The documents were created illegally and the person who made them is not too keen on there dispersion. Especially when they are PDFs created with pirated Adobe software, and the data on the files allows for the creator to be identified. The creator might also have intended the file(s) to be used by those in a small group that already owned the book, and not the general public. You feel me? TIA. Careful!, if you post stuff that doesn't support his views on thewiki he deletes your user account.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Careful!, if you post stuff that doesn't support his views on thewiki he deletes your user account. Yeah, I just took a look at the wiki based on your original comment and am none to pleased. @Oregonian, Did you seriously just join in the forum, take all our information, and are now posting it elsewhere? Why do you think it is a good idea to disseminate all the information that we (Q4T) have worked on in such a public manner, especially when we know that the number of hunters is about to expand? Are you trying to give the noobs a leg up? I was under the impression that the wiki hadn't been updated in a while because it was quickly realized to be a bad idea. Have you thought this through? Cause, yeah... those wiki updates sure make me want to share more information on the forum. I might just be in a shitty mood, but seriously.

maltedfalcon, I really like that visual derivation for 34th street. Solid. If just that one piece of visual information is correct, then we should be pretty damn close to the casque based on a route that involves that street.

erexere wrote:: maltedfalcon, I really like that visual derivation for 34th street. Solid. If just that one piece of visual information is correct, then we should be pretty damn close to the casque based on a route that involves that street. Well I had the whole solution posted at the wiki. unfortunately it conflicted with oregonian's theory so he took it down and then deleted my wiki editor account.

Damn, thats straight up cold blooded. Whoa, 34th street goes right up to the Palace of the Legion of Honor. That's refreshing.

erexere wrote:: Damn, thats straight up cold blooded. . I'll say, he seems to be a bit of an Ass. Any way to post here basically what he took down because it conflicted with his ideas.... If you got the Golden Gate Park map available in the 1980s then overlaid the map - because the tourist map was not an accurate map, the outline of the dress panel fit perfectly including the neckline (the map showed the Great highway as a curving line) The map also labeld the Great highway with an upper case G and a lower case h using the font shown on the dress. Back in 2000 I had that map and scans and posted those things on the original quest board. sadly that was many computers ago so I don't have those files. Here is a more modern map As you can see the fingers point to the 3rd line and the 4th line and the fingers lined up with 34th ave. how you could possibly translate that as 4 and 4 is beyond me... 34th ave runs straight from golden gate park to lincoln park Exactly following the methodology of chicago & cleveland, I dont need to go over that again it's in the forums once you're at the treasure ground visual site confirmers are : among others... The verse fits The Betsy Ross Flagpole was the tallest flagpole on the west coast- definitely a Giant Pole. Sadly since then the dirt parkinglot was paved and renovated. you can see there is now a flowerbed, sidewalk and statue there

Unknown: I sincerely doubt that this verse image combination is formulated differently than the two found casques. Unknown: Especially when there exists a solution for SF that exactly matches the methodology used in those. Unknown: and this is how SF works, with the unfortunate realization the casque is no longer accessible. I could not agree more. I agree with this as well. On this, we will have to agree to disagree.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Oregonian.... I would also ask that you not include any PDF copies of the book on the wiki, regardless of their completeness. The documents were created illegally and the person who made them is not too keen on there dispersion. Especially when they are PDFs created with pirated Adobe software, and the data on the files allows for the creator to be identified. The creator might also have intended the file(s) to be used by those in a small group that already owned the book, and not the general public. The PDF on the wiki was put up there by White Rabbit in October of 2013. What makes you think it was done with "pirated Adobe software"? I haven't examined the file very closely, but it looks to me like it was just produced with an ordinary scanner and some OCR software and then saved as a PDF. I don't know enough about publishing laws to know whether the PDF is illegal, so I'll just have to rely on common sense here. When The Secret was out-of-print and unavailable, it made sense to have the text available on the wiki as a PDF. No copies of the book were being sold by the publisher, and therefore no one involved in the book was losing any royalties when people got the book in other ways. But now an electronic version of The Secret is being sold through Amazon's Kindle eBooks (for $19!) and the profits are (presumably) going to some of the original authors. So now it does seem unfair to make a PDF of the book available on the wiki for free. So, as of this morning, I have removed the link. If White Rabbit or anyone else wants to weigh in, I'd be interested to hear what you think.

Oregonian wrote:: I don't know enough about publishing laws to know whether the PDF is illegal, so I'll just have to rely on common sense here. When The Secret was out-of-print and unavailable, it made sense to have the text available on the wiki as a PDF. Law and common sense do not work hand-in-hand. Ignorance of the law is no defense. Apply your same rationale to digging... "But officer, I didn't know enough about city ordinance to know that I couldn't dig here. I thought since nobody was around, it was OK." Derp.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Law and common sense do not work hand-in-hand. Ignorance of the law is no defense. As I said above, I'm not the person who created the PDF or posted it on the wiki, so I doubt I'm in much legal jeopardy from whoever bought the intellectual property rights of Byron Preiss Visual Publications and ibooks Inc. Common sense and courtesy are the guidelines in this situation, and I've removed the link from the main page on the wiki. (Thank you for pointing out the problem.) I think we should probably go further and take the PDF completely off the wiki, but I'd like to give White Rabbit a chance to weigh in before we do that. Most of the text of the book still seems to be available online in other places, including here on the Q4T website , but there's nothing I can do about that. I can take the links to those sources off the front page of the wiki, but I can't take down the content and people will still be able to find it in seconds using a Google search.

I think you're missing the point.I think we're wondering where you draw the line between fair use in a public forum and what your establishing as a more self serving benefit from others IP. Who controls the secretWiki? Whats its purpose if at this point it becomes selective over its contributers?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: On this, we will have to agree to disagree. Nope, we can agree on this as well, I realized last night, I missed something. Time to break out my shovel!

I added the PDF version of the book to the wiki, but I didn't create it. So if someone would prefer it taken down, then best take it down. (I kind of assumed the Kindle version was a ripoff. I don't know whether it's based on the Q4T version as I haven't downloaded it, but since the blurb they've used on the Amazon page was nicked from the summary Forest wrote for the wiki, it seems quite likely. The person to ask would be John Colby of Brick Tower Press , who owns the rights.)

Oregonian wrote:: so I doubt I'm in much legal jeopardy from whoever bought the intellectual property rights of Byron Preiss Visual Publications and ibooks Inc. Better check your facts, as administrator of the wiki, you have taken on responsiblity for the content. if copyrighted material is used and you allow it to stay, the law comes down on you.

To be fair, MF, I think newcomers to the book who discover the wiki are now more likely to become engaged in the puzzle and subsequently discover your theories on it via Q4T, than they would have before. Re: copyright, if anyone cared I think they would have said so by now. If they do complain, all you have to do is take the stuff down. No-one's doing time for posting up a few jpegs. Maybe we could have some kind of requests thread here where people could discuss proposed changes. But it seems a little harsh to start complaining about the wiki now when it's been allowed to drift into dereliction for years. As for you erexere, you don't care, you've got an urbansmurfing wiki of your own!

WhiteRabbit wrote:: To be fair, MF, I think newcomers to the book who discover the wiki are now more likely to become engaged in the puzzle and subsequently discover your theories on it via Q4T, than they would have before. As for copyright, if anyone cared I think they would have complained by now. If they do complain, all you have to do is take the stuff down. No-one's doing time for posting up a few jpegs. Maybe we could have some kind of requests thread here where people could discuss proposed changes. But it seems a bit unfair to start complaining about the wiki now when it's been allowed to drift into dereliction for years. Well you are correct about that! But my complaints wern't about that, my complaints were I updated the wiki with facts about previous hunts, and my changes were removed because they didn't fit the new admins theories. Neither here nor there, now I will stick to updating on Q4T BP magnanimously allowed the wiki and pages like it to stay up. There are new owners though and they paid for the rights. Just because they haven't complained yet doesn't mean they won't. One of the requirements for keeping a copyright is actively defending it. while Q4t is a reference site, with much more information then just The Secret, that means, it falls under the fair use clause of copyright law, the majority of images and text on the wiki is straight out of the book. Its a derivative work dedicated only to the secret book , If the owners ever wanted they could contact pbworks and the whole site would disappear overnight. If the documentary stirs up enough interest that could happen. So new interest comes with a mixed blessing.

Just curious, have you read the forums, because we've gone over this stuff again and again. we have solid connections for all that. Monday, I am contacting the powers that be and getting permission to dig (again)