Quest4Treasure Archives

drunknerds wrote:: The Innocents' Abroad, by Twain, contains this line: no other object can chain your whole attention. Referring to the Milan Cathedral Now, we already knew that ten years ago. Here's the thing I found which I think may be new(at least it seems to be according to the search bar) DeYoung Museum has an etching of the Milan Cathedral. https://art.famsf.org/ladislaus-rupp/il ... 9633034185 Got to commute, but then I'll hit up that department and see if they know if it was on display in 1980 I doubt it the deyoung was an asian art and textile museum that was their big thing.. regular art was few and far betweeen

Well, I quit then

drunknerds wrote:: Well, I quit then You just need to see what is in front of you and step through the door!

drunknerds wrote:: Well, I quit then If I had a nickel for every time I said this about the secret... Well I would at least have a buck 80

drunknerds wrote:: Well, I quit then Unknown: It was at that table d'hôte, too, that I had under inspection the largest lady I have ever seen in private life. She was over seven feet high, and magnificently proportioned. What had first called my attention to her, was my stepping on an outlying flange of her foot, and hearing, from up toward the ceiling, a deep “Pardon, m'sieu, but you encroach!” That was when we were coming through the hall, and the place was dim, and I could see her only vaguely. The thing which called my attention to her the second time was, that at a table beyond ours were two very pretty girls, and this great lady came in and sat down between them and me and blotted out my view. She had a handsome face, and she was very finely formed—perfectly formed, I should say. But she made everybody around her look trivial and commonplace. Ladies near her looked like children, and the men about her looked mean. They looked like failures; and they looked as if they felt so, too. She sat with her back to us. I never saw such a back in my life. I would have so liked to see the moon rise over it. The whole congregation waited, under one pretext or another, till she finished her dinner and went out; they wanted to see her at full altitude, and they found it worth tarrying for. She filled one's idea of what an empress ought to be, when she rose up in her unapproachable grandeur and moved superbly out of that place. -from A Tramp Abroad You can still ask the museum if there used to be a seven-foot-tall woman in residence:

gManTexas wrote:: When I was looking at map overlays, I searched for a match for the rose since it is highlighted in bright blue. I found that it matches Twin Peaks very nicely. I figured this was to get us in the neighborhood. After considering the Portals of the Past, it has an even stronger connection. If you look at the previous location of Alban Towne's Mansion on 1101 California Street and where City Hall sits, then picture looking through the portal at City Hall, directly in line with the two is Twin Peaks in the distance. I did a map overlay to show the rose outline on Twin Peaks. In four steps. im not sure whether the rose matches the subdivision, but thats the first time i realized there's a 6 in the rose lol. so thanks for that. also twin peaks is DEF part of the puzzle...literally everything is part of the puzzle...its massive. a better question would be what isnt a part of the puzzle lol. and of course...how does everything connect together...which i have nearly completely explained now.

I want to throw this out there for fun. I had always kinda seen the Reagan Head over the rose to be Reagan and then someone pointed out it looked like Lincoln. Now that I really look close it definitely looks like Lincoln but there is what appears to be a Fish Head in front of the Lincoln profile. This could indicate that the image is referring to Lincoln Blvd to the West in the Presidio and Fisherman's Wharf to the East. Any thoughts on this? My solve is in the SF Maritime National Park and it is located between these two spots. And yes I know other things are too but curious if anyone has noticed this fish head.

MrBackstop wrote:: I want to throw this out there for fun. I had always kinda seen the Reagan Head over the rose to be Reagan and then someone pointed out it looked like Lincoln. Now that I really look close it definitely looks like Lincoln but there is what appears to be a Fish Head in front of the Lincoln profile. This could indicate that the image is referring to Lincoln Blvd to the West in the Presidio and Fisherman's Wharf to the East. Any thoughts on this? My solve is in the SF Maritime National Park and it is located between these two spots. And yes I know other things are too but curious if anyone has noticed this fish head. I do not see a fish head, but I do not see lots of things that other people are seeing. so that I don't see it doesn't mean its not there. I am curious why of all the things he could pick to represent fisherman's wharf... he would choose a fish head as a symbol, - was there a sign with a fish head?

SF searchers, Anyone have information or knowledge of the tunnel and cement fixtures on the overpass (JFK) between 10th and 9th ave. When it was built, can't seem to find anything on this.

Goonie68 wrote:: SF searchers, Anyone have information or knowledge of the tunnel and cement fixtures on the overpass (JFK) between 10th and 9th ave. When it was built, can't seem to find anything on this. http://www.sanfranciscodays.com/golden- ... jfk-tunnel

Same source says the senior center didn’t come around until 1980

drunknerds wrote:: Same source says the senior center didn’t come around until 1980 Hey Drunknerds, thanks for the link!! I have a AAA map from 1978 that has the it marked as the Senior Center, maybe officially it was 1980?

Goonie68 wrote:: Hey Drunknerds, thanks for the link!! I have a AAA map from 1978 that has the it marked as the Senior Center, maybe officially it was 1980? Interesting. I found two documents that said 1980, but if the 1978 map says it then... there it is. What is needed is if there was anything indicating it was a police academy near the center, and whether the barred gate was still in front of the door.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I do not see a fish head, but I do not see lots of things that other people are seeing. so that I don't see it doesn't mean its not there. I am curious why of all the things he could pick to represent fisherman's wharf... he would choose a fish head as a symbol, - was there a sign with a fish head? No, I didn't see a sign with a fish head but then again I didn't see a sign with Lincoln's head either. I just think it is a waymarker of Lincoln Blvd and Fisherman's Wharf. Bit of course the Lincoln could represent the Lincoln around GG Park. So that would leave a questions as to what does the fish head represent?

So.....Today at the Senior Center....... https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40888879121/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40181116194/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39079217570/in/dateposted-public/ Looks like you can rule out a giant step from the pole, way to many pipes in all direction behind and most likely in front of the pole.

Goonie68 wrote:: So.....Today at the Senior Center....... https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40888879121/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40181116194/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39079217570/in/dateposted-public/ Looks like you can rule out a giant step from the pole, way to many pipes in all direction behind and most likely in front of the pole. Thanks for taking these photos. Did you ask the workers if they found a weird box, lol?

Goonie68 wrote:: So.....Today at the Senior Center....... https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40888879121/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40181116194/in/dateposted-public/ https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39079217570/in/dateposted-public/ Looks like you can rule out a giant step from the pole, way to many pipes in all direction behind and most likely in front of the pole. Incredible work, thank you. Whoever solves SF, YOU deserve top mention. However, I have to ask: Why did you say “looks like you can rule out a giant step from the pole,” when all of your pictures show the entire East side, my solve, completely intact? Edit : oh, and by my solve, I mean “ that one thing I came up with after goonie and malted did 99% Of the solve”

drunknerds wrote:: Incredible work, thank you. Whoever solves SF, YOU deserve top mention. However, I have to ask: Why did you say “looks like you can rule out a giant step from the pole,” when all of your pictures show the entire East side, my solve, completely intact? Edit : oh, and by my solve, I mean “ that one thing I came up with after goonie and malted did 99% Of the solve” Eh-hemm...

From what I could tell there are water lines that run towards the flag pole from the water main in the cage. https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40890880141/in/dateposted-public/

From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl: Chaste, perfect as the silver moon. I noticed the moon can be considered similar to the yin-yang symbol. It's perpetually light on one side and dark on the other. Perhaps it's the 11 moons in the sky that has me gravitating to this idea. The other thing I noticed is the yin-yang symbol also looks like a 6-9. Interestingly, "pure" silver is stamped with a "999". If you flip that, you have 666, giving this a "number of the beast" vibe. I've mentioned this before, wondering if Diablo Point is a place of any consideration. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B_Osma_117v.jpg

erexere wrote:: From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl: Chaste, perfect as the silver moon. I noticed the moon can be considered similar to the yin-yang symbol. It's perpetually light on one side and dark on the other. Perhaps it's the 11 moons in the sky that has me gravitating to this idea. The other thing I noticed is the yin-yang symbol also looks like a 6-9. Interestingly, "pure" silver is stamped with a "999". If you flip that, you have 666, giving this a "number of the beast" vibe. I've mentioned this before, wondering if Diablo Point is a place of any consideration. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:B_Osma_117v.jpg The research I have done suggests that the 11 moons are associated to the Apollo space missions. Apollo 11 was the mission that landed a man on the moon "Giant step" JFK was president that backed the missions and made it possible for the Apollo program to be created. This ties in JFK to the puzzle (face in the rocks) and reconfirms that the Road in the park JFK is significant to the puzzle. IMO.

Why would you need an abstract series of connections to tie in JFK, when his face is right there in the picture? This whole "x is associated with y which is associated with z, therefore z is relevant to the solve" has not been a viable method for any puzzle I've ever made, solved, or even heard of, plus it wasn't in the two known solutions. So this whole free association trend, which is a quite popular method for Secret hunters, baffles me. As always, I'd love to be wrong.

if there are 11 moons...what are the other two things??? UFOS? been pondering this and im not really sure...

oh shit! i just figured it out lmao!!!!!!!

that actually didnt take too much pondering haha.

the other two are Venus, but this is a symbolic representation for something else and major clue going forward into rest of the puzzles. so. fucking. epic. that would make Homer jizz in his pants a little.

see, this is why you guys need to stop talking shit and listen to me. that took me like 2 minutes!

f**k ken burns. preiss is america's greatest historian!

LOL

drunknerds wrote:: Why would you need an abstract series of connections to tie in JFK, when his face is right there in the picture? This whole "x is associated with y which is associated with z, therefore z is relevant to the solve" has not been a viable method for any puzzle I've ever made, solved, or even heard of, plus it wasn't in the two known solutions. So this whole free association trend, which is a quite popular method for Secret hunters, baffles me. As always, I'd love to be wrong. Because people cant agree on what face it is, Ronald Regan? Fred Flinston? Lincoln? So this is the reason why it would be important to tie it in, so that it's no mistake that you are looking at JFK.

anus905 wrote:: f**k ken burns. preiss is america's greatest historian! Do you always hold conversations with yourself?

I have not worked on SF but I read how there may be a Shakespeare connection. I am a huge fan/student of his works. There is a website, http://www.shakespeareswords.com/Search.aspx that has catalogued all of the words in his plays, sonnets, etc. I plugged in the word ROSE and came up with a few hits in plays like Romeo and Juliet, obviously. One of his poems is Passionate Pilgrim. This reminded me of the Pill Grim character in the book, and she hates passion. The word ROSE is used in Passionate Pilgrim X. Here is the text: X Sweet rose, fair flower, untimely plucked, soon vaded, Plucked in the bud, and vaded in the spring; BRIGHT ORIENT PEARL, alack, too timely shaded, Fair creature, killed too soon by death's sharp sting; Like a green plum that hangs upon a tree, And falls through wind before the fall should be. The notes on word meaning says that ORIENT means lustrous, brilliant, bright I had seen Shakespeare connections in other verses but everyone insisted that this wasn't so. But here it is, as improbable as it may seem. You can look it up for yourself. So the X could be related to the Shakespeare memorial. Maybe this is just a confirmation of the connection or the verse X could give clues.

Unknown: But here it is, as improbable as it may seem. Given how prolific Shakespeare was, it would be improbable only if you couldn't make a connection. In many ways, it's like Mark Twain and the mysterious object of his attention. Nobody knows what that is. And until the casque is dug up in SF, nobody can know what that is. Seemingly, that's the way the puzzle works. Which makes random association just about the worst way to try and solve it.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Seemingly, that's the way the puzzle works. Which makes random association just about the worst way to try and solve it. Best thing I have read in a while.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Given how prolific Shakespeare was, it would be improbable only if you couldn't make a connection. In many ways, it's like Mark Twain and the mysterious object of his attention. Nobody knows what that is. And until the casque is dug up in SF, nobody can know what that is. Seemingly, that's the way the puzzle works. Which makes random association just about the worst way to try and solve it. Its not the object of Mark Twain's attention. Its the object of Twain's attention.. huge difference and discrepancy.

Unknown: Its not the object of Mark Twain's attention. Read what I wrote again Trohn. And thank you for making my point.

Trohn wrote:: Its not the object of Mark Twain's attention. Its the object of Shania Twain's attention.. huge difference and discrepancy. Happy belated April 1. =]

Mister EZ wrote:: Happy belated April 1. =] [Drunk Nerds pulls out his Big List of Twain's Attention possibilities, crosses out "Brad Pitt"] Also I totally agree about the intentional omission of Mark, there. That's why the only answer I really like is Marx meadow. It doesn't rely on history, it is simply wordplay. Preiss didn't say "hey here's this local musician from chicago, and also here's this famous artist," he simply referred to the art and the music buildings as "brush and music." Dude liked wordplay, not history.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Given how prolific Shakespeare was, it would be improbable only if you couldn't make a connection. In many ways, it's like Mark Twain and the mysterious object of his attention. Nobody knows what that is. And until the casque is dug up in SF, nobody can know what that is. Seemingly, that's the way the puzzle works. Which makes random association just about the worst way to try and solve it. The word ROSE in Shakespeare only occurs 75 times. The first folio itself is over 900 pages. Folio size pages are very large! They measure 12" x 18". That is a lot of words. I simply took the ideas in this forum that shakespeare was involved and that the rose could also be a reference to that. The Pill Grim is in The Secret. IDK. Bright Orient Pearl in Passionate Pilgrim verse X. And the lady in the painting is wearing a glowing pearl necklace. To me that isn't a stretch. I shouldn't have said improbable. I was heading off exactly what you said anyhow. That i make to many leaps to make something fit. I simply plugged in the word and there it was. i think what I do for a living affects how I put things together.

perhaps not shakespeare...(though shakespeare def tells you something)...but definitely ole burnsey... https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/ ... d-red-rose

this tells us roses spring in june, hence why we do the puzzle in june. clever. clever.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Read what I wrote again Trohn. And thank you for making my point. No prob. Happy to help.

Shakespeare, or Robert Burns DO NOT tell us anything about the puzzle if there is no connection. First show how the verse has a strong or exact quote or some strong visual detail relates one of these poets. Any logic without grounds to support is foolish. Using the LotJ, I've taken hold of an idea based on some word choices. It's not convincingly relatable, but at least it's a basis for wondering how the words "chaste" and "pure as the silver" are supportive to some conclusion . It's important to realize at the same time how absurd it would be to draw your conclusions from any outside source material, this includes the LotJ, Vanishing, Field Guide, etc. The point of looking for some shred of relatable information is not to draw a conclusion, but to add support to what already essentially fits the verse and image. In Chicago, "cold morning green" was not necessary to the conclusions leading to a corner of Grant Park. It's merelybinteresting and fun to think with green = money, and morning low temps in May = 50 degrees is one way a person can accept there is some significance to looking in Grant Park. The same kind of whimsical logic seems to apply to Melville in Houston or Sarmiento in NOLA. We're looking at mere shreds for relevance. There isn't always a clear sense of culturally specific context, thus our navigation should be very tentative. I wouldn't be convinced the 11 moons are an Apollo 11 connection, but maybe there's something valuable in it. There certainly are a lot of moons...I wonder if we should count the pearl, for a total of 12.

Hello all. Didn’t want to interrupt the thread but thought I would share this information for those still considering Lafayette Park. According to the Victorian Alliance of SF, the drinking fountain is still located along the path near the center of the park between the playground and the restrooms. The online photo is looking roughly south. Hope that could be helpful as a possible site confirmer.

erexere wrote:: Shakespeare, or Robert Burns DO NOT tell us anything about the puzzle if there is no connection. First show how the verse has a strong or exact quote or some strong visual detail relates one of these poets. Any logic without grounds to support is foolish. Using the LotJ, I've taken hold of an idea based on some word choices. It's not convincingly relatable, but at least it's a basis for wondering how the words "chaste" and "pure as the silver" are supportive to some conclusion . It's important to realize at the same time how absurd it would be to draw your conclusions from any outside source material, this includes the LotJ, Vanishing, Field Guide, etc. The point of looking for some shred of relatable information is not to draw a conclusion, but to add support to what already essentially fits the verse and image. In Chicago, "cold morning green" was not necessary to the conclusions leading to a corner of Grant Park. It's merelybinteresting and fun to think with green = money, and morning low temps in May = 50 degrees is one way a person can accept there is some significance to looking in Grant Park. The same kind of whimsical logic seems to apply to Melville in Houston or Sarmiento in NOLA. We're looking at mere shreds for relevance. There isn't always a clear sense of culturally specific context, thus our navigation should be very tentative. I wouldn't be convinced the 11 moons are an Apollo 11 connection, but maybe there's something valuable in it. There certainly are a lot of moons...I wonder if we should count the pearl, for a total of 12. I would have to disagree with you here, Field guide , Corporate Giant mentions Karl Marx, in GGP is Marx meadow, it can't be any clearer that the two are spelled the same MARX, which absolutely points you to that direction. It is not a fluke that the two are spelled the same. What are the odds? As for Apollo 11 (IMO) it's just a theory and has a solid connection to JFK, that's all. I haven't heard a better interpretation for the 11 moons other then MAYBE the represents balls around the park? OR the moon bridge, which has nothing to do with the puzzle ( unless you are digging there) But why 11 so specific.

anus905 wrote:: perhaps not shakespeare...(though shakespeare def tells you something)...but definitely ole burnsey... https://www.poetryfoundation.org/poems/ ... d-red-rose Yes, I found a reference to Burns in another puzzle. Not that this relates to this puzzle, but maybe another, Burns was a Mason.

Goonies68, I understand. I might've said it poorly, the verse and image are the most direct means to draw a conclusion. The field guide, LotJ and other parts of the book maybe supportive, just not the primary source material for the specific puzzle. Seeing solid evidence in secondary sources is problematic. Understanding the basis of something in a supportive context is to treat something lightly. Always be careful when forming ideas that might only be a personal perspective as opposed to a solid move on Preiss part. I hesitate to say the LotJ is a foundation of solid moves. It's very light supportive material, if at all, since you're dealing with such a huge limitation of word definition, or idiom. Chaste and pure silver = Adam and Eve or silver's purity of 999, suggesting some special significance to the Dragon puzzle? Very loose idea. One might wonder ofnthe alchemical symbols or the "Hg" could be a metallic hint. Cold morning green = Ulysses S .Grant on a 50 dollar bill in the Celtic puzzle? also loose.l, but when You Take time to identify or compare his facial features with the painting you have a narrower field of supporting evidence.

image upload html It's the You You Crazy Train!!!!!

Goldengate wrote:: "We" know it's in San Francisco via the collective effort of the forum over more than a decade -- but in 1982, solving the puzzles was a pretty solitary effort. As with the Chicago Water Tower and the Cleveland tower, each image has multiple clues that tie it to a city -- meant to be somewhat recognizable to locals and out-of-towners alike . I think referencing a cable car is just one of those things, that's all. In 1982, tying a cable car to San Francisco would be more accessible to more people than the outline of GGP or any of the other perceived clues (except for the lat and long, which are dead on). I can only speak for myself, but I think the cable car is meant to be a general visual starting point setting this image in San Francisco and then the hunters can narrow down clues like GGP, Twain connections, poles, steps, etc from there. I think that is a good point. I owned a trolley car building for 20 years in Baltimore. The SF cars are unique.

The bump on the lady's wrist is the head of the ulna, which has a semilunar form. The ulna is the smaller of the forearm bones. It starts at the elbow and ends at the little finger. Ulna is an anagram of Luna and elbow is an anagram of below, for those not opposed to anagrams. Luna is Italian for moon. Derivatives are lunar, lunatic. Moon means month. The alchemical word for silver is moon. The periodic table value is AG, 47 for silver. The way the lady's hands are positioned, one on top is lead by the ulna. If you lifted your elbow first, you would make a pouring action. The under hand is a lifting motion. I have no idea if the forum has posted pictures of statues that have pouring and lifting figures. Maybe they could be in one statue. I did a search for all of this information and didn't really find anything. Hoping not to repeat info put out already.

MrSeabass wrote:: I don't understand the obsession of linking the bell to the cable car. We know it in San Francisco already; linking it to a cable car does nothing. May as well find references to BART or Emperor Norton in the image. Why Preiss juxtaposes obvious city indicators with more subtle ones, and why he felt the need for 5+ city indicators and like 0 dig site indicators, always baffled me. The only explanation is that it's a good sales tactic: Get people super excited thar they found a clue without actually revealong anything new is a great way to sell books without risking a solve drying up the consumerism

MrSeabass wrote:: Don't ever reply to me. Don't forget, if you add someone to your foes list, you won't see their posts or replies. Just other people quoting them. Unless the forum goes down and needs to be reset, then you have to redo your foes list. But when has the forum EVER DONE THAT

Triple Post! I'm a giant step from feeling at home plate! Can someone please link to the SF facebook. I am supwr old and dumb and thus cannot find it through searching

Goldengate wrote:: Here you go, grandpa: https://www.facebook.com/groups/1285391081604941/ Thank you!

MrSeabass wrote:: I don't understand the obsession of linking the bell to the cable car. We know it in San Francisco already; linking it to a cable car does nothing. May as well find references to BART or Emperor Norton in the image. Linking to a cable car might not get you anywhere in particular, but linking to a cable car turnaround (indicated by the table top) would get you to one of three locations: Powell & Market, Aquatic Park or Bay & Taylor. Isn't there a popular theory about Cleveland and Chicago establishing a pattern of a single street leading from a prominent local landmark (water tower, terminal tower) to the location where the verse takes over? Using one of the turnarounds this way requires accepting the landmark-street-verse theory, which I'm not 100% persuaded by, but we are really lacking something to bridge the gap between cities and local hunting grounds, especially with clues as omnipresent as walls, steps, poles, orbs and spirals.

My 2 cents on the bell.... The "clock" is a alarm clock this is why it has a bell on the top of it. It's pretty clear that this is a old fashion alarm clock. The reason why I think this is in the illustration is that it is telling you a time. Alarm clocks are meant for a specific time for one to wake up or to be aware of time. In the past(1980) before we were a 24/7 society we used this type of clock to wake up early. I believe the clock is telling us (by the alarm) to be somewhere early. We have the number 6 on the clock. Month of June. The alarm tells us early, now we are looking at early June. This falls with being in the park in early June to witness all the gardens in full bloom. Hence the "air smells sweet" or the rose in the illustration. Flowers don't bloom during winter. BP wanted us to be in the parks in spring and summer. This is why he said that he thought the casques would be found with in 6 months. You would not be looking for a casque in winter under 10 feet of snow.

Unknown: Using one of the turnarounds this way requires accepting the landmark-street-verse theory, I think it's the landmark-street-park theory, but Maltedfalcon is the one to ask. He's the originator and biggest fan as far as I know. Alternatively, one can search some of his earlier posts to see how it originated and developed over time. While tedious, it is still the best way to understand certain time-honored aspects of this puzzle.

MrSeabass wrote:: ...10 feet of snow. In San Francisco . Ok NOT SF I guess you don't get my point.

erexere wrote:: I am back to thinking the Dewey monument is our Giant Pole Old post, but are you still looking at Union Square...? I was just wondering about the bell idea and came across the annual cable car bell ringing contest that takes place there...(you probably saw that already). http://www.cable-car-guy.com/html/ccsfbell.html

Unknown: I guess you don't get my point. I'm not sure I get the point either, but my opinion is that with regard to the six casques south of the Mason Dixon Line, all of them could have been retrieved day or night, 365 days a year, especially if you had permission. The dig spot is not dependent on seasons, shadows, or phases of the moon. I think this is also true of the casques north of the Mason Dixon Line, as long as you understand that digging in Milwaukee or Montreal in February, while not impossible, is not nearly as pleasant as digging there in June. But that's just common sense.

...10 feet of snow. In San Francisco .[/quote] Ok NOT SF I guess you don't get my point.[/quote] Seeing as there's other clocks in the images that point to different times of day, your theory holds no water.[/quote] Ok so let's take Boston in winter, will you be able to dig out a casque?

Goldengate wrote:: Not sure I'd chase Union Square for a number of reasons -- namely, it's mega public -- as in one of the most publicly open and busy places in San Francisco -- and it's been extensively renovated and dug up multiple times since the 80s. It has been entirely replaced, the building underneath ( a parking structure) was completely torn out and rebuit union square is actually the roof of a new parking structure. there is no (zero) dirt/trees/grass that is original there.

...10 feet of snow. In San Francisco .[/quote] Ok NOT SF I guess you don't get my point.[/quote] Seeing as there's other clocks in the images that point to different times of day, your theory holds no water.[/quote] I would love to hear your theory way being in SF during peak of the blooming process holds no water, with a ROSE as a focal point in the illustration? Or your theory about the bell? IF you think I am so off.....

MrSeabass wrote:: You can in New Orleans, Charleston, Roanoke, San Francisco, St. Augustine, and Houston. And again, other images has a clock pointed at totally different times - NYC has a clock at 11:00. Which invalidates any credibility with your '6:00 means dig in June' theory. Well, as far as I can see those puzzle DO not have a flower as a focal point to the puzzle, so the flower is a key in SF, or would you not agree?

MrSeabass wrote:: Yayyyyy it's the "you can't criticize my theory without telling me your own" game, I love playing this... Now it's a game? I am totally fine with criticism, but back it up, explain your point, and not just say it hold no water......

MrSeabass wrote:: Scroll up and read. Multiple clocks in the images. Multiple times represented. Multiple cities that rarely ever see snow. Ok so maybe this got away from what I was trying to say. The Rose in SF is very focal. I am using this as a identifying image support. Roses are in bloom during June. That is a Fact, so using the time, it will give an actual flower to look at instead of a reference. As far as other puzzles clocks and what ever else has nothing to do with SF, my bad if it sounded like all puzzle had to be of the same criteria.

O think the spiral stem on the rose is its most significant feature, matching some stone facade or ironwork.

I think the larger principle here might be that the birthstones, birth flowers and month indicators (clock times included) are all part of an overarching organizational scheme (an image for each of the 12 months of the year), but do not do double duty as clues to the individual treasures. This scheme could be part of a yet to be determined key to image/verse pairing, or some other "grand puzzle", or it could be an unrelated diversion, perhaps a more user friendly puzzle to mask the comparative inscrutability of everything else. I think anyone making a case for the flowers, gemstones (including position in the image) or numbers being clues to casque locations should try to show how these elements pertain to Chicago or Cleveland. Do the warts on the Chicago face relate to points on a map, positions of monuments, number of steps to take, anything? Was March the optimal time to do the Cleveland dig?

MrSeabass wrote:: They have been blooming since March , and they bloom multiple times throughout the year all they way to fall months. Well, I have been in the Park from January to a couple weeks ago and the roses are not in bloom. The park cuts the vines, which they start to bloom in May typically. If the vines are not cut they will start to bloom in early march.

MrSeabass wrote:: So the roses bloom in March and not June. Thanks for proving my point. Just stop with this theory and move on to something else more grounded. Stop? you don't have to chime in if you don't want to... Did you not read what I said....I was there a couple of weeks ago and nothing is in bloom....how is that proving your point? So at this point we can agree to disagree and I am fine with that. But thanks for your opinion. You have something more grounded cool, like to share ?

MrSeabass wrote:: You're missing my point - if we already know it's in San Francisco, how does tying anything to the cable car help at all? Unless someone can make an argument that it's buried in a park along a cable car path (Union, Hampton, Wharf), then we're wasting time on circular logic. The Cable Car, the Turntable and the Bell all help because I believe the casque is buried at the Powell & Hyde Turnaround. The 6 on the clock tells you that the dig spot is just below the wall and above the sidewalk underneath the actual turntable. The image of the golden pearl on the lady's neck shows the approximate area for where the casque is buried in the landscape area. Her chin is the circular platform of the turnaround and her collar is the sidewalk going around the turntable. That's why the Cable Car and other references are more important than simply being a waymarker.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Old post, but are you still looking at Union Square...? I was just wondering about the bell idea and came across the annual cable car bell ringing contest that takes place there...(you probably saw that already). http://www.cable-car-guy.com/html/ccsfbell.html I'm actually currently writing about this monument, its not the pole, but its in the puzzle.

I was in sf up till mar 4th and the roses were not even close to blooming, so they will not bloom until at least may.

the rose, clock and spiral stem together relate to Vertigo.

MrBackstop wrote:: The Cable Car, the Turntable and the Bell all help because I believe the casque is buried at the Powell & Hyde Turnaround. The 6 on the clock tells you that the dig spot is just below the wall and above the sidewalk underneath the actual turntable. The image of the golden pearl on the lady's neck shows the approximate area for where the casque is buried in the landscape area. Her chin is the circular platform of the turnaround and her collar is the sidewalk going around the turntable. That's why the Cable Car and other references are more important than simply being a waymarker. The Powell & Hyde turnaround, on Powell and Beach? Wasn't that was built between 1982 and 1984? when I was in High School, the turnaround was actually out in the intersection of beach and powell. they moved it off to the side to lessen the impact on traffic while they loaded people.

MrSeabass wrote:: ... Well, I have been in the Park from January to a couple weeks ago and the roses are not in bloom. The park cuts the vines , which they start to bloom in May typically. If the vines are not cut they will start to bloom in early march. would be helpful you if used the quote bottom correctly and not half quotes.

its not at the turnaround backstop, that's not even a reasonable location lol. you do ride the cable car though.

treetops wrote:: I think the larger principle here might be that the birthstones, birth flowers and month indicators (clock times included) are all part of an overarching organizational scheme (an image for each of the 12 months of the year), but do not do double duty as clues to the individual treasures. This scheme could be part of a yet to be determined key to image/verse pairing Unknown: Preiss was a very good poker player, and was not giving out any hints about any of the other locations. However, he did confirm my theory that the countries of origin of the faeries do connect with the sites. ...yep, the clock times and flowers confirm the gems via the month, and the gems confirm nationalities via the litany, in a definitive way. Image style and elements also tie in with the nationalities. And the nationalities tie in with casque locations, as BP confirmed to Eg. I don't recall any evidence that the flowers, times, months, zodiac signs, etc., offer any other useful information, beyond their part in the nationalities scheme.

This is the Rose Garden last week. upload phots

I don't recall any evidence that the flowers, times, months, zodiac signs, etc., offer any other useful information, beyond their part in the nationalities scheme.[/quote] Why would we need a birthstone and a flower in the image? All we need is one or the other to determine what month we need. To me BP is adding the flowers for a reason.

anus905 wrote:: I'm actually currently writing about this monument, its not the pole, but its in the puzzle. FYI the lady at the top is Alma Spreckles - Wife of the sugar magnate

Goldengate wrote:: I'm sure you did, big fella. (Thanks goes out to Goonie for this perfect recreation of your triumphant "discovery" of the SF casque) OMG Thank you so much for sharing this!!!

MrSeabass wrote:: No no no no no. A vague reference to a vague reference to a vague reference to a vague reference to a vague reference to a vague reference to a vague reference is meaningless . Don't do that. Don't tell me what to do Snow White Ok. The lady has a bump on her wrist. If she is anatomically correct, that would be her ulna bone. Ok. The painting has moons. The etymology of moon is Luna. I consider that pretty straight forward. If you all can count squares on her sleeves because her fingers point to it, I can bring up the bump on her wrist. That bump can be related to a very famous painting. Oh yea, that is too vague. Please strike that.

erexere wrote:: Chaste and pure silver = Adam and Eve or silver's purity of 999, suggesting some special significance to the Dragon puzzle? Very loose idea. One might wonder ofnthe alchemical symbols or the "Hg" could be a metallic hint The alchemical symbol for silver is the moon. MrSeabass said that was a vague reference, but I dinna ken

maltedfalcon wrote:: The Powell & Hyde turnaround, on Powell and Beach? Wasn't that was built between 1982 and 1984? when I was in High School, the turnaround was actually out in the intersection of beach and powell. they moved it off to the side to lessen the impact on traffic while they loaded people. Thanks Falcon, this is great info. I just started looking at historical photos and see that the turnaround was right next to and parallel to Beach Street. It was moved to a 45 degree angle in 1982-84. So it doesn't change my solve location but does make me need to adjust the actual digspot. Let me get back to it with this new info.

Here is a historical photo of the turnaround pre-1980s. https://sfmta.photoshelter.com/gallery- ... T4YTtxFMnU

Great resource Backstop. Here's a more recent photo of the same: https://sfmta.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Fishermans-Wharf/G0000w6C5ku14.ig/I0000uSi_l8oQajc/C0000Lmc9adu9yKU

theres no way its at the turnaround...

People who are sharing resources and amending theories based on discussion: You are doing good I don’t understand why there’s an argument about June roses. It is certainly an interesting theory, but if I understand it correctly It doesn’t really affect the solve, all it means is another Shakespeare’s garden confirmation, so if it’s right or if it’s wrong we still know Shakespeare’s garden probably factors in but mayyybe not

I just think both sides are using their differences of opinion to divide them, when they could be using them to foster pleasant debate and analyze the merit of a possible new angle.

treetops wrote:: Great resource Backstop. Here's a more recent photo of the same: https://sfmta.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Fishermans-Wharf/G0000w6C5ku14.ig/I0000uSi_l8oQajc/C0000Lmc9adu9yKU I like that photo. It shows the waiting area around the tabletop that I didn't see before. I'm just real curious as to what the area and landscaping looked like on the other side of that wall where the people are waiting. Good stuff treetops.

Hi All. Just thought I would try to revive the Lafayette Park theory in SF. I am not sure how many are still considering it, but thought I would share a few possible image confirmers. Consider the sandy area(s) near the summit, there is the nearby Victorian drinking fountain and the barred window in the Spreckles Mansion. I would also add the ‘orbs’ in the sandy areas could be the moons we are seeing in the painting. The celestial theme may also be a subtle nod to the planetarium that existed there before. Of course, image confirmers are only as strong as the supporting verses. ‘Octavia/8th’ and ‘tennis court/scene where law defended’ still stands out as one of the best interpretations I have read. Considering also when you extend the arms of Clay/Octavia streets, you are almost exactly on the ‘sand’ at the summit. Hoping the forum will revisit this one.

Hi All. Just thought I would try to revive the Lafayette Park theory in SF. I am not sure how many are still considering it, but thought I would share a few possible image confirmers. Consider the sandy area(s) near the summit, there is the nearby Victorian drinking fountain and the barred window in the Spreckles Mansion. I would also add the ‘orbs’ in the sandy areas could be the moons we are seeing in the painting. The celestial theme may also be a subtle nod to the planetarium that existed there before. Of course, image confirmers are only as strong as the supporting verses. ‘Octavia/8th’ and ‘tennis court/scene where law defended’ still stands out as one of the best interpretations I have read. Considering also when you extend the arms of Clay/Octavia streets, you are almost exactly on the ‘sand’ at the summit. Hoping the forum will revisit this one.

davinci4 wrote:: Hi All. Just thought I would try to revive the Lafayette Park theory in SF. I am not sure how many are still considering it, but thought I would share a few possible image confirmers. Consider the sandy area(s) near the summit, there is the nearby Victorian drinking fountain and the barred window in the Spreckles Mansion. I would also add the ‘orbs’ in the sandy areas could be the moons we are seeing in the painting. The celestial theme may also be a subtle nod to the planetarium that existed there before. Of course, image confirmers are only as strong as the supporting verses. ‘Octavia/8th’ and ‘tennis court/scene where law defended’ still stands out as one of the best interpretations I have read. Considering also when you extend the arms of Clay/Octavia streets, you are almost exactly on the ‘sand’ at the summit. Hoping the forum will revisit this one. I believe that you are suggesting that Verse 6 is paired with Image 1? If so, I think that is a steep hill to climb. I am 97% convinced that Verse 7 goes with Image 1.

davinci4 wrote:: Hi All. Just thought I would try to revive the Lafayette Park theory in SF. I am not sure how many are still considering it, but thought I would share a few possible image confirmers. Consider the sandy area(s) near the summit, there is the nearby Victorian drinking fountain and the barred window in the Spreckles Mansion. I would also add the ‘orbs’ in the sandy areas could be the moons we are seeing in the painting. The celestial theme may also be a subtle nod to the planetarium that existed there before. Of course, image confirmers are only as strong as the supporting verses. ‘Octavia/8th’ and ‘tennis court/scene where law defended’ still stands out as one of the best interpretations I have read. Considering also when you extend the arms of Clay/Octavia streets, you are almost exactly on the ‘sand’ at the summit. Hoping the forum will revisit this one. I believe that you are suggesting that Verse 6 is paired with Image 1? If so, I think that is a steep hill to climb. I am 97% convinced that Verse 7 goes with Image 1.

davinci4 wrote:: Hi All. Just thought I would try to revive the Lafayette Park theory in SF. The celestial theme may also be a subtle nod to the planetarium that existed there before. I think you mean... the moons are a nod to the planetarium in Lafayette, Louisiana? Maybe?

drunknerds wrote:: I think you mean... the moons are a nod to the planetarium in Lafayette, Louisiana? Maybe? I mean, it's either that you are referencing... or the Morrison Planetarium in San Francisco... In Golden Gate Park.

It was an observatory that existed in SF's Lafayette Park; the first on the West Coast. https://mtdavidson.org/george-davidson/ I'm completely open-minded about image/verse mappings and locations, but I still think Lafayette Park is perfectly plausible. Here's a recap. 1) Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old RLS links to SF via Treasure Island and the monument (a drinking fountain ) in Portsmouth Square, Chinatown. 2) Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him There's a well-known photographic portrait of the actor Edwin Booth with daughter Edwina , and a plaque referencing Edwin near a plaque for RLS. Equity , the actors union, was founded in May 1913 following secret meetings at Edwin Booth's mansion in NY. The phrase " Fair remuneration " appears in the Equity handbook , though I don't know when it first appeared. 3) Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand These lines could be a description of the Lafayette Park tennis courts, which are on Octavia (the eighth ). It's a "court", a scene where law defended, between "two [with] arms extended". " Long palm " is an early form of tennis. There are also actual palms in the park. 4) Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand The courts are next to an infamous white house which was the subject of a long-running dispute. https://hoodline.com/2016/06/legendary- ... park-today 5) Possible image matches include a Victorian drinking fountain : ...and the windows of the white house. A few years ago the park was extensively renovated, and I wrote to a local group to try and get them to take a look. There's an article about it here. http://newfillmore.com/wp-content/uploa ... 013_06.pdf

It was an observatory that existed in SF's Lafayette Park; the first on the West Coast. https://mtdavidson.org/george-davidson/ I'm completely open-minded about image/verse mappings and locations, but I still think Lafayette Park is perfectly plausible. Here's a recap. 1) Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old RLS links to SF via Treasure Island and the monument (a drinking fountain) in Portsmouth Square, Chinatown. 2) Or May 1913 Edwin and Edwina named after him There's a well-known photographic portrait of the actor Edwin Booth with daughter Edwina , and a plaque referencing Edwin near a plaque for RLS. Equity , the actors union, was founded in May 1913 following secret meetings at Edwin Booth's mansion in NY. The phrase " Fair remuneration " appears in the Equity handbook , though I don't know when it first appeared. 3) Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand These lines could be a description of the Lafayette Park tennis courts, which are on Octavia (the eighth ). It's a "court", a scene where law defended, between "two [with] arms extended". " Long palm " is an early form of tennis. There are also actual palms in the park. 4) Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand The courts are next to an infamous white house which was the subject of a long-running dispute. https://hoodline.com/2016/06/legendary- ... park-today 5) Possible image matches include a Victorian drinking fountain: ...and the windows of the white house. A few years ago the park was extensively renovated, and I wrote to a local group to try and get them to take a look. There's an article about it here. http://newfillmore.com/wp-content/uploa ... 013_06.pdf

really? lol

Well, given the existence of a relatively famous Edwin and Edwina, it seems unlikely to me that BP would have chosen that obscure line from an obscure book without being aware of them. So whichever one leads to the casque, I'm pretty sure he was aware of both. From there, it's not much of a leap to wonder which he ended up using. I also like the "fair remuneration" tie-in, and I've seen no other explanation for that. "A scene where law defended" is also a pretty strange way to describe a hanging. The monument at the scene doesn't mention the 8th, and its main subject, Stede Bonnet, wasn't executed until the 10th Dec. It's a bit of a stretch in more ways than one.

there were lots of crossovers from puzzle to puzzle to make it tougher to marry verses to the city (which is much harder to do than the paintings, for obvious reasons).

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Well, given the existence of a relatively famous Edwin and Edwina, it seems unlikely to me that BP would have chosen that obscure line from an obscure book without being aware of them. So whichever one leads to the casque, I'm pretty sure he was aware of both. From there, it's not much of a leap to wonder which he ended up using. I also like the "fair remuneration" tie-in, and I've seen no other explanation for that. "A scene where law defended" is also a pretty strange way to describe a hanging. The monument at the scene doesn't mention the 8th, and its main subject, Stede Bonnet, wasn't executed until the 10th Dec. It's a bit of a stretch in more ways than one. "Bonnet’s own men had been hung at White Point two days before his trial and their bodies left dangling from the gallows before the bloated, decaying corpses were cut down and unceremoniously dumped in the marsh just off the point; marshes that would later be filled in for the building of homes." (this spot is marked by a plaque about the building of the battery wall (on s battery wall w of wpg). furthermore, because the 8th is NOT mentioned directly on the monument itself...we are GIVEN the EIGHTH as a clue earlier in the puzzle via the Harken to the words clue...which takes us to "Harken to the words of a patriot, 1840" (a historical document - pamphlet)...from this we discern that the EIGHTH will come into relevance later (at this point were standing at Hunley Monument...with the Pirate Monument being the next one down to the E).

3) Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand The foundation of many establishments in SF were ships buried in the sand. https://www.thevintagenews.com/2016/04/ ... ld-rush-2/ An oar is a Palm. This statue in SF shows a lady holding a "long palm". In the shadow of the Palm is the date 1850. In SF the year 1850 saw "three great fires". https://1drv.ms/b/s!An5iiS4FlLlEgzEbfiiffjLsNi7v A historical society was established in 1850. It is a repository of the history of SF where one can look up very old archives. I have no idea if this helps other than pointing to SF.

Hey, I like the Octavia tennis courts solve. I just have two issues: - Preiss, who was a linguistic genius and stickler, said "a SCENE where law defended." Not a place, not a room, not an area, and especially not a SETTING. An inanimate patch of clay can't be described as a scene. - San Francisco has Octavia and an 8th avenue. The odds are really high that one of them would hold a tennis or basketball court, or a real courtroom, or a courtyard. So, while the match is clever, it certainly doesn't have that "oh, this is unusual" aspect that makes interpretations really seem correct. There are white houses everywhere. Literally everywhere. If one has to resort to finding interesting things about the house that have nothing to do with faeries or treasure, then that's tunneling in my strictest scene. I love the first two , um, divots in the image matching with the first two divots beneath the fountain. That said, there's definitely no huge oblong piece. I can't see JJP putting in a part which dominates 80% of the base in the image when it's not in the actual fountain base. If I look at this a certain way, there are some great matches and I start to get really excited, but then my eyes keep getting drawn to the huge center oblong and any resemblance just dissolves This really doesn't match, for my eyes. The proportions are off and there's no bars. Keep 'dem coming, though, WR. Like I said, you lay these out in a really easy to understand way

anus905 wrote:: but like, if you can follow two diff paths to 2 diff parks using valid interpretations, how can you negate that is part of the design?!? esp considering one is the park that 95% of people believe it is in. Well, for me, there's more that puts me in Lake Park, other than just choosing Mitchell Hall or Mitchell Mansion as a starting point. The image of the Bowman and the verse reference to Congress (parkway/hotel) was enough to put Gasiorowski, Wrobel and James directly inside Grant Park, while skipping / missing the original meaning of 'M and B'. The image of the cicada (colloquially referred to as a 'locust', in these here parts), the millstone (which, looks like the stone storm drain located at the end of Locust Ravine Trail) and the verse reference to the Grand Staircase, is enough to get me next to the Bistro in Lake Park. While I may miss out on the historical references you're great at looking up, I don't have to decide whether to stroll along Downer, Welles or Kenwood (a third possibility). "Do you have any advice for would-be hunters?' -- Mary Ann Childers "Keep it simple" -- Eric Gasiorowski

the treasure hunt clues are sometimes hard to solve but the directions you discern from them are almost always quite simple, even if hidden under a few layers of symbolism at times. when you get to the entire puzzle though, this brings in secondary and sometimes even third readings of these clues. I have 3 sets of 3 high posts in my complete SF solve, although only one directly relates to solving the treasure hunt part itself. this is EXACTLY how mythology works. if you aren't approaching this like a mythology, and/or aren't familiar with how mythology works...you simply aren't going to be able to solve these. the texts that have specifically helped me solve this include: Dennis Tedlock's Popl Vuh; Nabokov's Where The Lightning Strikes; and writing (interpretations; ie how symbolism directs us to read narrative as viewers) about Vertigo (esp helped in SF bc there is a Movie/Vertigo theme to it) and Ben Wheatley's A Field In England. writing about AFIE especially set me up for this.

these are not just treasure hunts...the treasure hunts are secondary. to engage people. the primary reason that Preiss created this book, was to fashion his legacy...as possibly the greatest mythologist in the history of America. this is Preiss' mythology of North America. and it would blow even Homer away...

Unknown: "Keep it simple" -- Eric Gasiorowski "There's no such thing as simple. Simple is hard."--Martin Scorsese

Goldengate wrote:: http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/04/30/people-descend-san-francisco-search-buried-treasure/ Wow, they really tore up the grass in front of the Senior Center. Thanks for posting!

he hasn't done crap in years for sf lol. merely keeps trying to guess final location without consideration for rest of the puzzle and still hasn't realized that's not how you do it. also....I like George...but that st aug podcast was brutal.

to who? lol

Hi All. Just finished listening to podcast, which has been excellent BTW. They had mentioned some of the border symbols in this painting matching up to symbols found in Portsmouth square. Never heard of this before. Does anyone have pics?

I have an explanation for all the border symbols, and nothing has to do with Portsmouth square in my opinion. if you care.

Okay Josh, I care....what are your meanings for the symbols? I have several for my solve but am still trying to figure out the 3 or so at the bottom.

which ones?

The San Francisco Parks Department has a new podcast about The Secret. https://player.fm/series/i-left-my-park ... asure-hunt

brutal lol. I was worried they were gonna talk about my solution...glad they didn't. hes right about the expo but it covers at least 2 expos and the 1915 one is of lesser importance than the one at the de young.

Goldengate wrote:: So cool that the SF Parks Dept is has become so engaged in the search -- they sound just as excited as the hunters! It's an awesome partnership and additional reason to go through the process of applying for a permit, I'm sure the supervising parks representative at each dig can be extra insightful in terms of theories and what's already been searched. If you think about it, their involvement is a great resource and something totally unique to The Secret! Maybe someone can go over to the Portals of the Past with them and probe behind it. Left side if you are facing the front. Right where the sort of natural flat spot is. Not sure if I posted this, but I can see a connection between the columns of the Portals and the Roman numerals in the border of her dress. We have a III and a II. If we look at his older photo of the Portals, we can see the replacement (giant?) pole on the right side in the back from when the earthquake of 1957 destroyed the original column. Also III and II, plus a pole.

Saoirse wrote:: There's also a silhouette of McKinley on the mountain in the picture. He's located at the end of the panhandle of GGP though. Plus it looks like Alcatraz bars in the picture. Wondering if any SF natives ever explored this idea any further? If you look at the woman's dress as a possible overhead view of Golden Gate Park, wouldn't the pearl then be "located" somewhere in the Panhandle section of the park?

at gman, the roman numerals at top add up to 11, but bc everything is flipped, you change it to an "ace is high", to make it 21. by its location in painting its primarily telling us that crossover drive is our ace is high...and secondarily it points to the statue of the blackjack general (which is located in the vicinity of the bombs bursting in air guy) in the statue garden.

wheres the silhouette of McKinley?

I'm sharing my solution (link below) so that others may leverage the clues I've identified. Unfortunately, I think if these clues are right then I think we'll likely never find the Sf casque. One thing I would like to try is to get is JJP to confirm the folding of the image as I've done in my solution. The image appears to seamlessly merge the two sides and the blue aura and even hair combine to form a clue. I had my second opportunity to dig at the Tea Garden today, but unfortunately the spot I hoped to explore had been trenched and excavated and no longer worth exploring. You can find my solution here: http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/SF% ... pr2018.pdf Appreciate any thoughts on the image clues and solution to the verse.

cnllreds wrote:: One thing I would like to try is to get is JJP to confirm the folding of the image as I've done in my solution. Please don't bother JJP he has asked not to be contacted or questioned. If you want to prove your theory, find the casque, if the casque is gone then this one just becomes a mystery

>Seabass I took the fingers pointing to these spots to be an indication to fold the picture to pull these two sides together. When you do fold the picture, kind of like the old Mad magazine style fold, the figure appears to be a ninja type hooded figure. It's simply a clue to indicate an asian theme, but its a very clean image that comes together. When combined with the Tea Pot below the table then these two clues led me to the tea garden.

That would be true, but I happened on that clue first and found it interesting that at the precise spots that the fingers point to would come together so nicely to form the image that I didn't think it was coincidence. Then in finding that, the other distractions of the image where removed and the tea pot became more apparent as the key clue. Who knows if that was intended but it's a simple solution to what those finger positions are eluding to and they are there for a reason I would guess.

in one sense they are def pointing to spot that Hwy 1 enters and exits park.

Why are you jealous?? Relax, its just a one possible solution...I'm not claiming Jesus and Byron came to me in my sleep and confirmed it. (...but Dude, its clearly a Tea Pot! There are at least 2 other clues that seem to indicate the tea garden. There's an immigrant theme to these puzzles...How many check boxes do you want before considering the possibility?) btw...I'm not seeing many recent Image 1 solutions sticking with the immigrant theme, and I think you can boil down those immigrant related locations to a handful of GGP spots. In the end, I hope there is something available to find, but I'm concerned it was buried in the Tea Garden and its been destroyed by renovations.

you go to the teagarden for half the womans face (other half is sphinx in sculpture garden)...treasure isn't there.

I found these San Francisco cable car photos in a 1981 National Parks Atlas. I thought that I would share. Disclaimer: I don't know anything about this puzzle and the photos provided are simply a courtesy to those who do. Enjoy. https://imgur.com/gallery/1Y5VU8q

that first one looks like it might be the sign outside the bank by the whole foods about the history of cable cars.

BINGO wrote:: I found these San Francisco cable car photos in a 1981 National Parks Atlas. I thought that I would share. For those of us with smaller monitors, links are preferred rather than embedding huge images. https://imgur.com/gallery/1Y5VU8q https://i.imgur.com/vTsw3Cr.jpg https://i.imgur.com/tO7WUS3.jpg

catherwood wrote:: For those of us with smaller monitors, links are preferred rather than embedding huge images. even for those of us with big multiple monitors!

Durian wrote:: Hi. For anyone interested, After playing with the San Francisco image/verse, I've come up with a really tidy and interesting non-Golden Gate Park solution in Aquatic Park. Check it out and let me know what you think: https://thesecretsfsolution.blogspot.com/ I haven't read it yet but huge props for using a blog page! I hadn't thought of doing that, great idea!! Edit: nice work. I'll have to run through it but very compelling argument here.

Durian wrote:: Hi. For anyone interested, After playing with the San Francisco image/verse, I've come up with a really tidy and interesting non-Golden Gate Park solution in Aquatic Park. Check it out and let me know what you think: https://thesecretsfsolution.blogspot.com/ Excellent job!

Durian wrote:: Hi. For anyone interested, After playing with the San Francisco image/verse, I've come up with a really tidy and interesting non-Golden Gate Park solution in Aquatic Park. Check it out and let me know what you think: https://thesecretsfsolution.blogspot.com/ Excellent - Hi we on the forums have considered Aquatic park many times, it certainly could be the location... a couple points for you to consider... The hyde street cable car turntable is not in the same location as it was when the casques were buried. the cable car system was shutdown in 1979 and rebuilt (this includes the renovation and move of the hyde street turnaournd) it was opened to the public in 1984 so using the present location as an indicator is problematic. the park changed significantly between 79 and 84 ) a huge part being buried by the new turnaround that now moved from the intersection into the actual park. street lights /lamp posts are routinely replaced and removed and upgraded. so using current street lights as a marker, clue is problematic. for instance I was using very ornate street lights as a clue in one of my solves, but after further research it turns out they were installed in 1984 and in 1981 there were no streetlights there at all. Using the Eureka as a clue is also problematic as it is a boat (therefore it moves) while it was docked on that pier, in 1981 it was not in the location where it currently resides. so that will throw your bearings off a significant bit. I personally remember visiting in the early 80s and it was on the east side of the pier much closer to the street and it was there for a while, they were either renovating or constructing the current docking position at that time. Any way be sure in your head, to re-create the way it looked in 1981, before trying to solve the clues.

Sage words from Malted as always.

maltedfalcon wrote:: even for those of us with big multiple monitors! Time for the old guard to get some spectacles? The link to the image gallery is in the original post. Just saying...

BINGO wrote:: Time for the old guard to get some spectacles? The link to the image gallery is in the original post. Just saying... Worn Glasses almost my whole life, Are you being a myopiaist? and dissing the vision impaired? (Just kidding!) the link scrolls off cause the page fills with image...

maltedfalcon wrote:: Worn Glasses almost my whole life, Are you being a myopiaist? and dissing the vision impaired? (Just kidding!) the link scrolls off cause the page fills with image... Not sure why the images are that big so suddenly. I haven’t changed my upload routine on Imgur and they are blowing up randomly. That’s why I added the gallery link in the first place. Oh well, links only from now on. My apologies to the old guard.

Durian wrote:: Thanks for the response Malted! I hear you about things moving, but I was born in SF and those streetlamps have likely been there since at least the early 1970s. The turnaound and/or the boat being moved a matter of literally a stone's throw doesn't really change much. The real question for my solution is how long have those steps coming off of Hyde street been there? Everything else fits nicely, and the whole stroll keeps Angel Island in view, a priority for the author. I'm sticking with my solution. you would think it wouldn't but since you are searching for a 5" square simply choosing to use the bow or the stern or the smokestack as your bearing, will cause a significant difference in you "spot" That the boat moved laterally 100 yards is a big deal. but in general I believe that stairway and walkways and grassy areas were created in 1983/84 when the park was rennovated for the enhanced streetcar turnaround. This is also when the park was added to the historic places register so that they had just done significant upgrades prior to that makes sense.

maltedfalcon wrote:: you would think it wouldn't but since you are searching for a 5" square simply choosing to use the bow or the stern or the smokestack as your bearing, will cause a significant difference in you "spot" That the boat moved laterally 100 yards is a big deal. but in general I believe that stairway and walkways and grassy areas were created in 1983/84 when the park was rennovated for the enhanced streetcar turnaround. This is also when the park was added to the historic places register so that they had just done significant upgrades prior to that makes sense. Nope I am wrong your stair way was definitely there in 81!

1969 Aquatic Park.

that is the eureka there but like I said it was moved around in the early 80s Also you can see the turnaround is also in a different place at this time it was more of a 90 degree turn which now that I look at it kind of looks like it is right on top of your stairway, you should research that more.

Durian wrote:: Can't see the stairs in the photo, but if you look above the cable car you'll see a lamppost peaking above the car. That's the giant pole in my proposed solution. Incidentally, it is of the same modern type that I believe are the "high posts are three" from earlier in the verse, so those were in the city in the seventies... Anyway, the stairs are to the north of the post by a few feet (to the left in the photo), so they were definitely not "under" the old turnaround and may very well have been there in the seventies. Can't prove it with tools available to me at the moment, but I'd say it's a good bet they were. is it me or is that turntable at street level ? or even above it, meaning no stairs at that point, unless instead of stairs down, they were stairs up in 81.

Durian wrote:: From the photo and the others I've seen, the turnaround looks to be at the same level it is today—on a plane with Beach Street. The stairs run off Hyde into the park, and since Hyde is inclined between Beach and Jefferson, they would bring you up to the level of the turnaround from Hyde street—today and in the 70s. I could be wrong but it looks to me like the old one just turned 90 and ran alongside the road level with the road. or maybe even a little above, because you would want it to roll off the turntable by gravity. In that case the stairs would not be there as the sidewalk would be at the same level as the area around the turntable. The new turntable is at 45 degrees into the park leaving an area next to the sidewalk, it looks like they excavated the dirt under the old turntable and used it build up the area for the new turntable, which opened up the area and required the stairs to be put in since it now goes down from the sidewalk.

When trying to figure out where the old Turntable was I use the "Circus Tent" shelter. That shelter with the white circular top has been in the same spot for years and it used to line up perfectly with the old Turntable.

MrBackstop wrote:: When trying to figure out where the old Turntable was I use the "Circus Tent" shelter. That shelter with the white circular top has been in the same spot for years and it used to line up perfectly with the old Turntable. picture?

https://sfmta.photoshelter.com/gallery- ... T4YTtxFMnU

That shows me that there was no stairway there.

Durian, First of all, hats off to you for a well thought out and coherent proposed solution. Second, there is a lot to like in here. I have a couple of thoughts: Strengths 1. I love the interpretation of the table, clock, bell, rose. It fits pretty nicely. 2. Ghirardelli Square connection. 3. Lombard Street incorporation into your solve. Weaknesses 1. Federal property. I have a hard time believing that BP would have buried anything on Federal Land. This assumes that it was under that status in 1982. Also, I realize that things were a bit more laid back in 1982, but why risk getting arrested or encouraging readers to dig in federal property? 2. I'm a bit flat on the Giant Pole. Street lights don't impress me much. However, given the benefit of the doubt, when combined with the not so giant steps, I'll buy that for the moment. 3. Ace is high reference is a little tenuous. Not sure if the Alice Marble Tennis Courts were there in '82, but could that be the Ace is High? 4. The dress in Image 1 is a pretty good match for GGP. It is hard to ignore that. So, in looking at your proposed solve in a reverse way, could we perhaps could say that George Sterling Memorial Park would be a good candidate site? Twain speculated in silver mining in Nevada. You can see a lot of famous landmarks from Sterling Park. Heading up from the Ghirardelli Square area, we could take the Larkin Stairs which is a giant step (or steps). This would put us in Sterling Park. I don't have any answers for giant pole at the moment, but I'm just throwing some ideas out there. Disclaimer: I believe the casque is buried at the Portal of the Past in GGP. Although I am certainly open to other concepts.

Durian, I like how you can discuss this without getting bent out of shape. You make a pretty persuasive set of arguments. I like that monument, but it is far removed from the rest of the hunt, although I could see it as being inspiration. What's your thoughts on the Dragon's Gate also being inspiration? It's somewhat of a landmark and I'm sure it was there in the 70s. Maybe some stuff just to place us in SF? I'm still stuck on not being in GGP. It seems that most of the puzzles are centered in larger, well-established parks that have a history of conservation. BTW, if you listen to the Shhh podcast, Malted Falcon mentions that he once saw a map of GGP area and the Great Highway letters matched the reversed Gh in the Image. Maybe the map maker (tourist type map) was taking artistic liberty and incorporating the signature font, but I tend to agree with Malted. I could see that maybe you've nailed some of the tourist part of the puzzle, as I believe each puzzle has a dual purpose. First to take us on a visit through the city in question, then focus us on the actual casque location. Many of the landmarks you have pointed out would be very touristy, including the Coit Tower as our possible Giant Pole. Even for someone who has never visited the city, they would recognize the cable car on the hills, Lombard, the marina area, with Alcatraz in the distance, etc. In fact, the three times I've been to SF, I never even got to GGP, but I saw all that other stuff.

Durian wrote:: I've tried to put myself in the author's shoes when thinking about this puzzle. He likely did some research before flying out to San Francisco on what was likely a quick trip of 2 or 3 days. He would have had a plan. I doubt he had access to a guidebook with super detailed information about Golden Gate Park, like we do now. More likely, he had a guidebook that highlighted the usual tourist spots, so he planned his trip accordingly. I think he probably spent a day walking around and taking photos. Maybe this was his once-in-a-lifetime trip to San Francisco, one of the world's great cities. My wife thinks he probably took a boat tour of the bay like any other tourist, hence the clear Alcatraz references. I assume he would not miss the opportunity to visit Angel Island, probably not intending to bury the treasure there, but just to see it for himself since he had a fascination with immigration. So my question is this: in a book with a theme of immigration, why put the treasure somewhere obscure and make obscure references to fairly obscure parts of the city with no relation to immigration? Why not make references to famous songs, signs, and iconic San Francisco places in a part of town rich with immigration references? Chinatown, Russian Hill, North Beach, Fisherman's Wharf... Why make obscure Twain references when the Eureka is right there? Preiss probably saw the boat while walking around and thought: "Aha, I can make a verse about this using Mark Twain!" Why not make Angel Island a focal point? Not the place where the treasure was to be buried since it is remote, but a place to make the reader think about by featuring it prominently in the clues and visually prominently as the reader physically walks about the city following the clues? Wasn't the Chicago casque found in a well traveled park close to downtown? The whole reason for dressing up like a city/utility worker was because he was burying these things in public. Regarding the Dragon Gate being inspiration, I think that's totally possible! My two cents. There are people who have way more knowledge of the history of the hunt in SF than me, but I believe some people think BP actually spent a good deal of time there, between attending grad school at Stanford and spending time with his future wife who lived in SF. I want to say this has been a tough one to crack because he had time to weave a lot of narrative into the puzzle. I think the Image is a bit overwhelming in the amount of crazy detail, almost like he handed JJP 100 photos and said "incorporate ALL of this!" Having looked at most of the puzzles, I believe the immigration connections are a bit of a side note and perhaps just a literary device to frame the book. I think you'd be hard pressed to find any of the puzzles that really emphasize the immigration angle, especially the nationality for a particular puzzle, like Italian for Boston or German for Milwaukee. I think it's more of a 30,000 foot thing.

Durian, very well put together solve. I like seeing your thought process and the various photos to go along with it. I too believe the casque is in National Maritime Park. And although I've made some new discoveries and revamped a couple thoughts on Image 1 and the Verse, I'm still in the same park but looking for a targeted dig spot. As for the Rose on the J-shaped stem. I've described before how the rose is a Bardou Job Rose that is famously grown in two areas of the World....Wales and Alcatraz. The background behind the rose is above the horizon line indicating the Bardou Rose on Alcatraz. The J-shaped stem represents two things. First, it is similar to all the wrought iron, decorative fencing and posts in San Francisco and around the Maritime park. Second, The Maritime Park is bound by Beach St to the South, Hyde to the East, and Jefferson to the North. Notice the vine making the number 3 below it,....Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd President of the United States. That's just another of the many reasons my solve is in this park.

MrBackstop wrote:: Durian, very well put together solve. I like seeing your thought process and the various photos to go along with it. I too believe the casque is in National Maritime Park. And although I've made some new discoveries and revamped a couple thoughts on Image 1 and the Verse, I'm still in the same park but looking for a targeted dig spot. As for the Rose on the J-shaped stem. I've described before how the rose is a Bardou Job Rose that is famously grown in two areas of the World....Wales and Alcatraz. The background behind the rose is above the horizon line indicating the Bardou Rose on Alcatraz. The J-shaped stem represents two things. First, it is similar to all the wrought iron, decorative fencing and posts in San Francisco and around the Maritime park. Second, The Maritime Park is bound by Beach St to the South, Hyde to the East, and Jefferson to the North. Notice the vine making the number 3 below it,....Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd President of the United States. That's just another of the many reasons my solve is in this park. The Bardou Job Rose seems to have been discovered on Alcatraz in 1989. The history of it sounds murky enough to not be a candidate.

I'll throw another one at you real quick. You see the rock in C/D-4 with the 3 crosses on it? Notice that there are other horizontal bars on the vertical bar of the crosses. This is because those aren't crosses, they are the masts of the Balclutha....as in: Not far away High posts are three

Yes Gman, discovered in '89.....the word "discovered" is key. They are believed to have been there for decades without any clear knowledge of how they got there. An employee? A prisoner? A visitor? who knows.

I forgot to ask....to not be a candidate...for what?

MrBackstop wrote:: I forgot to ask....to not be a candidate...for what? Even if BP knew about it, how would any treasure hunters? This is a very specific rose variety that was thought to be extinct. For the general population, a rose is Shakespeare, or a garden or simply the outline of something.

MrBackstop wrote:: I'll throw another one at you real quick. You see the rock in C/D-4 with the 3 crosses on it? Notice that there are other horizontal bars on the vertical bar of the crosses. This is because those aren't crosses, they are the masts of the Balclutha....as in: Not far away High posts are three That is something I can agree with. Especially since it was used at times to house immigrants.

Durian wrote:: My comment regarding the map would be this: what are the odds this map "with a reversed Gh?" zero, on the map the G and h were correctly oriented. although the h in highway was lower case.

Oh, I see what you are saying now Gman. I was under the impression that the Bardou Job was introduce in 1850 like the other heirloom roses and that it survived over the decades of time. The point I was still making is about the roses Alcatraz was famous for and the Gardens that have been around since the 1800s. I believe BP would have definitely been aware of the roses and vegetable gardens. When I took my tour of Alcatraz 8 years ago I learned all about those items. I'm would guess BP would have toured or learned about the roses and gardens the same way I did.

Durian wrote:: Hi gMan, Thanks for the back and forth. I love it! That's what a board is supposed to be all about... I haven't heard the podcast. My comment regarding the map would be this: what are the odds this map "with a reversed Gh?" was seen by the author, vs. the odds of the author seeing the Ghirardelli sign? And why a lowercase "h" for Great Highway vs. a lowercase h for Ghirardelli? Along the Hyde St. cable car line, I believe your first glimpse of the sign as you come down the hill is the "Gh," with the rest of the sign obscured. I agree that the Gh is very distinct and that alone might get you to SF. I also agree that you would see it reversed on the Ghiradelli building, I've seen it myself. I should have said that it was not reversed on the alleged tourist map, from what I gather. I do believe that BP would have seen a tourist map from that time period, or simply, BP and JJP being clever in the design of the puzzle. A lot of things in these puzzles seem to have dual meanings. I am in essence agreeing with you, although I am having some trouble placing the casque outside of GGP or the immediate area of GGP. I think we are presented with clues from around the city, or cities if you expand this to all of the puzzles. They help ground us in the location and present historical or physical references that we can use to help solve the dig location. Take Milwaukee for example. There are many references downtown to various landmarks, buildings and people. This aids us in the hunt in Lake Park, where many people believe the casque is located. Moving back to SF, in the Coit Tower, we have arched windows (like the arch in Image 1) that overlook parts of the city including the harbor. In the tower, we also have murals depicting scenes, including the mural of "Library" showing a copy of Karl Marx's Das Kapital. In GGP we have Marx Meadow, albeit named after a different Marx, however I contend that if we make these connections, then see that Marx can represent Mark's Meadow, as a clever play on words, Twain's attention would be a good fit. I firmly believe that BP truly thought these puzzle were easier than they are. In this respect he created a masterpiece that is still alive some 36 years later, but also a failure in that most people gave up and he was never able to release a second book as originally intended. Yes, two casques were recovered, the first with help from the author and the second by brute force. I do not believe that either group had "solved" the riddles. Now, we could also say that both of the finds were arguably easier puzzles, although it is easy to say in retrospect. If we assign a value to the gem as being an indicator of the complexity of the puzzle, as BP mentioned, then why have SF, Milwaukee, and New Orleans not been found? I suspect that in order to find the casque in SF, you would need to be relatively familiar with the city, or dedicate a lot of time in the local library, especially back in 1982. Here we are in 2018 armchair hunting with a ton of resources at our disposal and yet it is still elusive. I think you may be onto some great ideas, and I'd like to see your wife's take on it. Keep sharing!

Durian wrote:: I'll play along here. If the small circles (so not to be confused with actual bubbles or spheres in the Images) represent water, the entire map of GGP on her dress would be water. This is not far from the truth. Originally, a necklace of parks was proposed by Fredrick Law Olmsted and they would have fit into the natural habitat of SF, requiring little water in the process. The city decided they wanted a park like Central Park, and thus it became GGP. Then they figured out they need huge irrigation systems and water works to support the park. Water and pipes everywhere. Just ask Malted, lol!

MrBackstop wrote:: Oh, I see what you are saying now Gman. I was under the impression that the Bardou Job was introduce in 1850 like the other heirloom roses and that it survived over the decades of time. The point I was still making is about the roses Alcatraz was famous for and the Gardens that have been around since the 1800s. I believe BP would have definitely been aware of the roses and vegetable gardens. When I took my tour of Alcatraz 8 years ago I learned all about those items. I'm would guess BP would have toured or learned about the roses and gardens the same way I did. The Bardou Job is actually a very old rose variety, but without having access to that information, I doubt it would be referenced. You could be right that gardens could be referenced at Alcatraz, but who thinks of that? I suppose if you took the tour, but I think it's a little bit of a stretch.

I believe Preiss was very familiar with Olmsted and also the history of every place he buried a casque. I also believe he was acutely aware of what was Federal Land and what was not. Let's look at Lake Park in Milwaukee again. Prior to 1969-70 there was Nike Missile Tracking Station in the park, crazy huh? Also, the North Point light house was run by the USCG. I believe he avoided those specific areas and buried the casque nearby. This lends credence to your possible solve, so I wouldn't rule it out, but he seemed to have given some though to where you should and shouldn't be digging. Every treasure casque is buried underground, at a depth of no more than three to three and one-half feet. The casques are protected by lustrous transparent boxes, and are sealed. The following places do not hold any treasure: (a) any life-threatening location, such as a dangerous highway embankment, a contaminated area or active railway track (b) any cemetery (c) any public or private flower bed (d) any property owned by the contributors to the book, their families or friends. Now, this does not specifically say no to Federal Land, but who wants to run the risk of that, especially as you mentioned, running foul of the Antiquities Act. This guy was a bit of an adventurer, but at the end of the day, was a New Yorker with a job and family. He probably did not want to spend time in lockup in New Orleans.

Durian wrote:: Hi gMan, Good points, all. Respectfully, my main critique of what you're saying re: the level of complexity in the puzzles (having multiple meanings, deep knowledge, etc.) would be that I think when trying to solve any problem, looking at the obvious solutions usually lead to an answer more quickly and more often than adding complexities that may or may not have been intended. Again, it's like Occam's razor. You may be right and many things in the puzzles might have double meanings, but if Preiss thought the puzzles were easy to solve, I would argue he probably didn't make them super complex, with a ton of multiple meanings. What I'm saying is this: Maybe all the references to the waterfront are there simply for what they are—clues to get us looking around the waterfront to solve the problem. I have personally never seen any real smoking gun that we are supposed to be looking in Golden Gate Park. The best argument for this from my perspective is that her dress flares out, similar to a map of the park. But when you put that up (along with potentially the Gh standing for Great Highway) versus all the references to cable cars, cable car bells, Alcatraz and justice, cable car turnarounds, Lombard Street, a boat that Mark Twain would be able to pilot today if we were able to suddenly revive him via science 🙂 ... If you put all of these things up against a dress that flares out (which I contend is a reference to Lombard Street anyway), and a reversed "Gh" on a map (which I contend is the view most people first get of a world-famous sign), I think the evidence is pretty overwhelming that we are supposed to be at the waterfront. Has anyone considered that the artist put the flare in the dress just to throw us all off? That seems more likely to me, given the preponderance of references to the waterfront. If you show a reversed "Gh" to one hundred San Franciscan's I bet you almost all of them say: "That's a reference to the Ghriardelli sign." By the way, I'm an SF native and lived there most of my life. I've spent hour upon hour in GGP, but never visited Shakespeare's Garden. But maybe that was my bad, lol Hey, almost any well reasoned theory is as good as another at this point until someone comes up with a casque. People have tried this six ways to Sunday. Simple, complex, vectors, shadows, planetary alignments... I want to believe that it is simple. My opinion is that it becomes simple when you see it. This is why I am pleased with my Portals of the Past theory. Everything lines up in one spot and it's secluded. That's one thing we have not discussed yet, is the ease of burying the thing and more important, the ease of digging for it. The Cleveland guys dug for some 8-9 hours. The Chicago guys dug multiple times. It's my thought that you will need at least a few hours of probing and digging to find one of these things. Nature of the game where trying to find an object so small with rough instructions. Do you think someone can do that in your proposed spot, even with permission?

Durian, Awesome work with your proposed solution. I can see why the Aquatic park would be a great location, it does have a lot of clues you can connect to the verse and image. I am also a native of San Francisco born and raised, so the SF puzzle has been my focus for the most part. I have looked at it two ways, In the park (GGP) and out of the park(Downtown, Marina). I found that almost anything you can link to verse and image in both scenarios. Through my research, like gman said BP lived in the bay area for a time and had more knowledge about SF then I think he would of had with other locations. I also think that the puzzles where meant for more of the local people then tourist, because what are the chances that people who bought the book had the means to travel to all the cities he burred a casque in. I think the puzzles could resonate with the local people of the city's he had placed each casque in. With that being said, the one clue that sticks out to me is "High posts are three" SF 1970's-80's, the local TV stations (KTVU) channel 2 (FOX) now, during commercial breaks( Or KTVU image) they would show a picture of Sutro Tower between breaks or at the end of the broadcast right after Creature Feature (for those who remember and BP would of been a fan right? This was right up his alley) this was before TV was on 24/7, this Iconic picture was a stable in local broadcasting which almost any resident who owned a TV at the time would of know this. I am sure you remembered it right? I think if you are going to ask 100 people which one of these objects would be recognizable to SF natives they would say Sutro Tower, all though Gh is good too. This one image for me brings me to GGP after looking at all the other possibilities seeing the tower and reading the verse makes a strong connection for me. So looking at a few factors in your proposed solutions Questions would be: Would BP take a risk in burring a casque in such a highly visible place with a sidewalk just feet way with Tons of passing bye people to see him. Would he jeopardize his "Secret" if someone saw him and decided to wait till he left and dug it up? Both casque's that have been found connected to large parks with gardens and history to theses gardens. The back ground of the book is about nature and in all the images flowers are a common thread. Do you think the Aquatic Park fits this picture? The quote " Great Western Sea, There was no place farther we could go" GGP sits on the edge of the west. Do you think this is more likely? I think if you are a tourist then the wharf makes senses if your a local then GGP marke sense ? As of right now my research has strengthen GGP ( for me) as the area of search. I could be way off as I do not have a caques and with out one everyone has a chance in there theories, again great work tying in clues, visuals and verse.

Durian, Awesome work with your proposed solution. I can see why the Aquatic park would be a great location, it does have a lot of clues you can connect to the verse and image. I am also a native of San Francisco born and raised, so the SF puzzle has been my focus for the most part. I have looked at it two ways, In the park (GGP) and out of the park(Downtown, Marina). I found that almost anything you can link to verse and image in both scenarios. Through my research, like gman said BP lived in the bay area for a time and had more knowledge about SF then I think he would of had with other locations. I also think that the puzzles where meant for more of the local people then tourist, because what are the chances that people who bought the book had the means to travel to all the cities he burred a casque in. I think the puzzles could resonate with the local people of the city's he had placed each casque in. With that being said, the one clue that sticks out to me is "High posts are three" SF 1970's-80's, the local TV stations (KTVU) channel 2 (FOX) now, during commercial breaks( Or KTVU image) they would show a picture of Sutro Tower between breaks or at the end of the broadcast right after Creature Feature (for those who remember and BP would of been a fan right? This was right up his alley) this was before TV was on 24/7, this Iconic picture was a stable in local broadcasting which almost any resident who owned a TV at the time would of know this. I am sure you remembered it right? I think if you are going to ask 100 people which one of these objects would be recognizable to SF natives they would say Sutro Tower, all though Gh is good too. This one image for me brings me to GGP after looking at all the other possibilities seeing the tower and reading the verse makes a strong connection for me. So looking at a few factors in your proposed solutions Questions would be: Would BP take a risk in burring a casque in such a highly visible place with a sidewalk just feet way with Tons of passing bye people to see him. Would he jeopardize his "Secret" if someone saw him and decided to wait till he left and dug it up? Both casque's that have been found connected to large parks with gardens and history to theses gardens. The back ground of the book is about nature and in all the images flowers are a common thread. Do you think the Aquatic Park fits this picture? The quote " Great Western Sea, There was no place farther we could go" GGP sits on the edge of the west. Do you think this is more likely? I think if you are a tourist then the wharf makes senses if your a local then GGP marke sense ? As of right now my research has strengthen GGP ( for me) as the area of search. I could be way off as I do not have a caques and with out one everyone has a chance in there theories, again great work tying in clues, visuals and verse.

Durian wrote:: Ha! You're 100% right, re: casques. Until someone comes up with one in SF, NY, or wherever, nobody with a theory—no matter how good or plausible—is an expert or has solved anything. I'm just trying to make the point that IMO many theories tend to reach for clues and devise elaborate explanations while often overlooking the obvious or simple. For instance, there are many theories on the Twain reference, and almost all of them make some sort of sense on some level. I'm not saying any of them in particular is right or wrong, but the most obvious reference to Twain in SF is the Eureka. By far. Everything else, while valid, is not what one thinks of when one thinks of Twain. He piloted boats like the Eureka. He took his pen name from that type of boat. The Wikipedia page on Mark Twain makes no reference to Vivaldi, for instance. But people seem to think Vivaldi is a clue. Maybe? I think when you can plausibly tie together enough obvious line-of-site references to one geographic location, ie. a cable car, a cable car bell, a reversed Gh, Alcatraz, Angel Island, the door to a chocolate factory (under the Gh and where the air smells sweet BTW), a boat of the type Twain would have piloted a hundred times, an image of water/islands in the distance—I think you are on to something. For me, it's hard to ignore the accumulation of that type of evidence. Even the Roman numerals in the dress could be representative of the clock tower at Ghirardelli. And as shown elsewhere, I think the symbol at the bottom of her dress could represent a cable car turnaround. There's a lot going on image/verse-wise in this one little slice of Russian Hill. Too much for me to ignore. Do I think it would be easy to dig my proposed solution? Physically digging it out, yes. It's just weeds, though some utility boxes are nearby. There are a couple of BIG issues though. Who do you ask for permission? Is it the city, PG&E, or the NPS? Someone would need to start at City Hall and find out who owns that strip of land. The NPS Park Supervisor I spoke with said the location in question likely is an easement belonging to the city. If that's the case, getting a permit may be relatively easy. If it's owned by the feds, it's pretty much a game over situation. I'm sure the Park Service could be convinced to allow some ground penetrating radar of the location, and maybe some probing, but the American Antiquities Act of 1906 makes getting permission to dig almost impossible, according to my ranger source. So someone in the Bay Area would need to start physically at City Hall, requesting the documents showing who owns the spot in question. I personally think getting hold of the plans/photos pre-turnaround renovation would be a good starting place as well, because if the stairs didn't exist before '79, obviously that's not the sight to dig. But like I said elsewhere on the forum, I'm pretty certain from the evidence there were stairs leading up to the turnaround from Hyde Street in the 70s, just like there were (and are today) stairs leading down to the turnaround from Beach Street. Makes a lot of sense. Are you still kind of local to SF or do you visit there occasionally? I think the best thing to do is go to your spot and scope it out. Take pictures and video, maybe talk to some people. See what kind of coverage there is from authorities. Also, now you have webcams all over the place too, maybe see where they are because you will be monitored in some fashion. Judge what type of effort would be required to possibly recover this thing. Even if it seems difficult, you'll never know until you dig. I believe that the option to query the publisher is gone since BP is no longer with us, and the company went belly up, so you cannot submit a proposed site to them any longer. I also think you are on the right track with determining property ownership and possibly what was there and not there in 1980. You might be able to research some of this online at this point or make some calls. As for probing, I think you might be able to do that without much attention, however, in a setting like that I think you'll hit a lot of stuff. GPR, while enticing, seems like overkill for a pearl. If you just want the satisfaction of finding the casque, then go for it, but again you might get a whole bunch of false readings. Again, I like where you are going with this. Plausible stuff. I say evaluate it until you convince yourself either way.

Durian wrote:: As far as the puzzles being for locals versus outsiders, I would only note that the author gave an address to write with a solution if someone figured it out remotely but didn't have access to the site. That tells me that in his mind, his puzzles were clearly intended to be solvable by people beyond just the locals. or for people who were locals moved away but recognized the hints. up to this point only only locals(ish) have found a casque

Durian, Hi. I've only glanced at this thread over the past several weeks and took notice just now of your activity. I like the way you're exploring the ideas. Keep up the good work. When I weigh the options you've put forth about the Gh, I think I'm more in camp A, where you find yourself for whatever reason looking towards the Ghirardelli sign. I really like how it has a "main street" feel, looking north towards the Alcatraz and the hills in the background. In the painting the G and the h are actually separated, and it's in our mind that we assume they are linked as they are adjacently found in the sign. I feel like that separation of two things normally found close together is a suggestion to be at some far distance from the sign, "increase the distance from the letters". Could this also be a directional clue to travel further west? I was on a map kick just now, probably overdoing/overthinking or being liberally biased in my own way, as usual, but I feel the strong urge to look at a mirrored version of the painting while I develop a sense of perspective as I look at the standard map of SF. Certain things kinda stand out, like what looks like the little island of Alcatraz, and the shape of the Golden Gate Bridge peninsula and of course the large rectangular dragon impression of the main roads through Golden Gate Park. I wonder if the pointing finger is anchored to this pointing towards the cliffs of Lands End.

Unknown: up to this point only only locals(ish) have found a casque True in Chicago. Not even marginally true for Cleveland. Having said that, people who were within a reasonable driving distance from a casque site had a considerable advantage over those that weren't, since being there in person was likely the only way to gather enough information to satisfy the requirements set forth in the book for claiming the jewel without actually digging up the casque. The internet has opened up the puzzle to a lot more people, but in many ways, specifically in regard to the end game, we are right back where Preiss intended. As this current conversation so clearly illustrates.

I cold send mine in today and do that! id just rather try and dig it up first lol.

Unknown: id just rather try and dig it up firstt You and me both Josh. Especially since in 2018, it remains the only way to know for sure whether you have the solution or just another solve.

I gotta agree with Seabass. You found some things that are a bit more direct and compelling, such as the view from the top of Russian Hill....or, the symbol at the bottom of the dress, compared to the turnaround....or, the number of steps on either side of the stairs (fading away) vs. the number of squares in the sleeves....etc. You don't need to read more into it and you don't need to find some other links (which may not really exist) in an attempt to justify things further, imho. Let the visual evidence stand on its own.

Gman, you might be right about some people not thinking about life on Alcatraz and how many people may not know about prison life. But in 1975 I was in the 6th grade and we studied wars and prisons pretty thoroughly. At age 11 I got to understand what type of hell my uncles went through in Viet Nam and what life was like for prisoners on Alcatraz. I kind of took for granted some of the basic info I learned as a 6th grader that may not have been covered in other parts of our country. The gardens of Alcatraz were well known in my school. We also studied a lot of details concerning the Victory Gardens created during WWII.

Gman, you might be right about some people not thinking about life on Alcatraz and how many people may not know about prison life. But in 1975 I was in the 6th grade and we studied wars and prisons pretty thoroughly. At age 11 I got to understand what type of hell my uncles went through in Viet Nam and what life was like for prisoners on Alcatraz. I kind of took for granted some of the basic info I learned as a 6th grader that may not have been covered in other parts of our country. The gardens of Alcatraz were well known in my school. We also studied a lot of details concerning the Victory Gardens created during WWII.

there is a very logical da vinci connection that should be obvious to someone local...lol...

Durian, can you post a map or link with your x marks the spot?

ohhhh Totally not where I thought you meant....

ohhhh Totally not where I thought you meant....

So, in that clump of bushes? I'm a little concerned because it looks like there are electrical boxes there.

So, in that clump of bushes? I 'm a little concerned because it looks like there are electrical boxes there.

Only one verse tells us to get permission to dig. I think he buried everything else away from power lines. Think of the liability.

Only one verse tells us to get permission to dig. I think he buried everything else away from power lines. Think of the liability.

Durian wrote:: Also, I know some people think my use of streetlights on a corner as the "high posts are three" is weak sauce. How about this then... The view, from the very same street corner, the corner where Ghirardelli Chocolate is: Remember, the Balcutha (the sailing ship) wasn't there when Preiss created The Secret. Now, think about something from the painting: I believe these symbols are topographical symbols. According to the USGS, a blue circle represents a water tank, the triangle a peak, and the two squares with dots represent a "Land grant, homestead, mineral, or other special survey monument." The three red circles in my image above are "high points" features of Alcatraz: the smokestack (other special monument), the water tower (a well), and the guard tower (another other special monument). These are the three high posts. At 788 feet, the peak of Mt. Livermore on Angel Island is probably the triangle. All four are grouped together in the painting because they are references to a single view of Alcatraz and Angel Island, both referenced also in the line "Education and Justice for all to see." Image and verse. And since you get this view from Ghirardelli, the symbols are on the same "line of sight" in the painting as the reversed "Gh." I like the idea of a guard tower being a post.

Durian wrote:: Also, I know some people think my use of streetlights on a corner as the "high posts are three" is weak sauce. How about this then... The view, from the very same street corner, the corner where Ghirardelli Chocolate is: Remember, the Balcutha (the sailing ship) wasn't there when Preiss created The Secret. Now, think about something from the painting: I believe these symbols are topographical symbols. According to the USGS, a blue circle represents a water tank, the triangle a peak, and the two squares with dots represent a "Land grant, homestead, mineral, or other special survey monument." The three red circles in my image above are "high points" features of Alcatraz: the smokestack (other special monument), the water tower (a well), and the guard tower (another other special monument). These are the three high posts. At 788 feet, the peak of Mt. Livermore on Angel Island is probably the triangle. All four are grouped together in the painting because they are references to a single view of Alcatraz and Angel Island, both referenced also in the line "Education and Justice for all to see." Image and verse. And since you get this view from Ghirardelli, the symbols are on the same "line of sight" in the painting as the reversed "Gh." I like the idea of a guard tower being a post.

durian, I highly suggest you run through what others have done on these puzzles to give yourself a little more context about what has already been figured out.

durian, I highly suggest you run through what others have done on these puzzles to give yourself a little more context about what has already been figured out.

Unknown: In 1982 the orientation of the entrance of the cable car line at Victorian Park was altered. Originally the line entered the park on the east side from Hyde Street at a 90-degree angle (the tracks were parallel to Beach Street). After renovations, the tracks entered the park at the southeast corner at roughly a 45-degree angle. In addition, a path that originally followed the slope around the cable car platform was moved farther north to accommodate the newly extended flll slope designed for the realigned turnaround. During this renovation, the east side of the plaza was extended and a new seating area created. This area was covered with interlocking brick pavers. A new set of concrete steps lead to the sidewalk along Hyde Street. Sometime after 1982 the Victorian Park paths and plaza were paved with asphalt. Hi Durian, I liked a lot about your solution and want to thank you for sharing it. Being able to see the Gh, the steamboat and Alcatraz all from this spot are potentially great confirmers. Plus, the comparison of the table top in the painting to the cable car turntable appears to be entirely plausible. It sure seems as if the casque might be in this area. However, the concrete steps down to Hyde Street were not installed until 1982. This information was found on page 82: https://www.nps.gov/safr/getinvolved/up ... -28-17.pdf The area in and around the turntable is called Victorian Park. The original design was intended to be reminiscent of the Victorian era, complete with ornate benches and gas lamps. It would be logical for the new 1982 stair railings and ironwork to continue with this same type of detail.

Unknown: In 1982 the orientation of the entrance of the cable car line at Victorian Park was altered. Originally the line entered the park on the east side from Hyde Street at a 90-degree angle (the tracks were parallel to Beach Street). After renovations, the tracks entered the park at the southeast corner at roughly a 45-degree angle. In addition, a path that originally followed the slope around the cable car platform was moved farther north to accommodate the newly extended flll slope designed for the realigned turnaround. During this renovation, the east side of the plaza was extended and a new seating area created. This area was covered with interlocking brick pavers. A new set of concrete steps lead to the sidewalk along Hyde Street. Sometime after 1982 the Victorian Park paths and plaza were paved with asphalt. Hi Durian, I liked a lot about your solution and want to thank you for sharing it. Being able to see the Gh, the steamboat and Alcatraz all from this spot are potentially great confirmers. Plus, the comparison of the table top in the painting to the cable car turntable appears to be entirely plausible. It sure seems as if the casque might be in this area. However, the concrete steps down to Hyde Street were not installed until 1982. This information was found on page 82: https://www.nps.gov/safr/getinvolved/up ... -28-17.pdf The area in and around the turntable is called Victorian Park. The original design was intended to be reminiscent of the Victorian era, complete with ornate benches and gas lamps. It would be logical for the new 1982 stair railings and ironwork to continue with this same type of detail.

maskit wrote:: Hi Durian, I liked a lot about your solution and want to thank you for sharing it. Being able to see the Gh, the steamboat and Alcatraz all from this spot are potentially great confirmers. Plus, the comparison of the table top in the painting to the cable car turntable appears to be entirely plausible. It sure seems as if the casque might be in this area. However, the concrete steps down to Hyde Street were not installed until 1982. This information was found on page 82: https://www.nps.gov/safr/getinvolved/up ... -28-17.pdf The area in and around the turntable is called Victorian Park. The original design was intended to be reminiscent of the Victorian era, complete with ornate benches and gas lamps. It would be logical for the new 1982 stair railings and ironwork to continue with this same type of detail. maskit, great find. Interestingly Victorian Park was already there. Let's assume for a second that Durian is correct. Short of feeling an obligation to bury a new casque, what if it had been in the park and was destroyed in the 1982 renovation? While I think that the casque is in GGP, Victorian Park could certainly be an object of Twain's attention, since he co-authored the book, The Guilded Age: A Tale of Today, which was set during the Victorian era. One caveat here, BP was intimately familiar with SF and could have easily waited until the renovations were complete to bury the casque, although that would be kind of a jerk move if the book was already in circulation. My take is that perhaps this is a clue, but for the tour of the city sights. I believe each puzzle has a dual meaning and that we are taken around the city first, then to the treasure location. The real hunt in SF, IMHO, is in GGP.

maskit wrote:: Hi Durian, I liked a lot about your solution and want to thank you for sharing it. Being able to see the Gh, the steamboat and Alcatraz all from this spot are potentially great confirmers. Plus, the comparison of the table top in the painting to the cable car turntable appears to be entirely plausible. It sure seems as if the casque might be in this area. However, the concrete steps down to Hyde Street were not installed until 1982. This information was found on page 82: https://www.nps.gov/safr/getinvolved/up ... -28-17.pdf The area in and around the turntable is called Victorian Park. The original design was intended to be reminiscent of the Victorian era, complete with ornate benches and gas lamps. It would be logical for the new 1982 stair railings and ironwork to continue with this same type of detail. maskit, great find. Interestingly Victorian Park was already there. Let's assume for a second that Durian is correct. Short of feeling an obligation to bury a new casque, what if it had been in the park and was destroyed in the 1982 renovation? While I think that the casque is in GGP, Victorian Park could certainly be an object of Twain's attention, since he co-authored the book, The Guilded Age: A Tale of Today, which was set during the Victorian era. One caveat here, BP was intimately familiar with SF and could have easily waited until the renovations were complete to bury the casque, although that would be kind of a jerk move if the book was already in circulation. My take is that perhaps this is a clue, but for the tour of the city sights. I believe each puzzle has a dual meaning and that we are taken around the city first, then to the treasure location. The real hunt in SF, IMHO, is in GGP.

the connection to Angel Island are the elephants. Can you see the elephants? "I have seen the elephants"

the connection to Angel Island are the elephants. Can you see the elephants? " I have seen the elephants"

as per your first question, as I 've said numerous times and gman has reiterated here...the treasure hunt is located within a larger puzzle, that is the mythology of the location you are in...there is always one clue in the verse that connects you to this, and many visual clues.

as per your first question, as I've said numerous times and gman has reiterated here...the treasure hunt is located within a larger puzzle, that is the mythology of the location you are in...there is always one clue in the verse that connects you to this, and many visual clues.

Durian, I've enjoyed checking out your posts and agree with you that the casque is buried in National Maritime Park. I don't have your dig spot in my solve but like all the info you've included to make your solve. Let me add something to the NMP location. I haven't noticed anyone talk about the letters in the Snake toward the bottom. I very clearly see a letter "g", "E", and "o" which of is the abbreviation for George. If you then take the snake and look at it from the side you see the letter "H". This is indicating George Hyde for whom Hyde Street is named. And of course, Hyde Street borders the NMP with Jefferson. The Rose on top of the turntable makes the letter "J" for Jefferson and the other vine makes the number "3". Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd President of the United States. Something to keep in mind about the Balclutha, she wasn't where she is now when BP was there but, she was just a pier or two over and that would not affect the ability to see her masts.

Durian, I 've enjoyed checking out your posts and agree with you that the casque is buried in National Maritime Park. I don't have your dig spot in my solve but like all the info you've included to make your solve. Let me add something to the NMP location. I haven't noticed anyone talk about the letters in the Snake toward the bottom. I very clearly see a letter "g", "E", and "o" which of is the abbreviation for George. If you then take the snake and look at it from the side you see the letter "H". This is indicating George Hyde for whom Hyde Street is named. And of course, Hyde Street borders the NMP with Jefferson. The Rose on top of the turntable makes the letter "J" for Jefferson and the other vine makes the number "3". Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd President of the United States. Something to keep in mind about the Balclutha, she wasn't where she is now when BP was there but, she was just a pier or two over and that would not affect the ability to see her masts.

Durian, Maybe you can clarify the starting point a little more. IF "At stone wall's door" is the front of the Ghirardelli building where you should start the puzzle, how do you use the backwards Gh if you start in front of the building? If you are too see the Gh from behind the building to confirm the visual clue in the image, like you have in your solution on Hyde street, that would put you south of the Aquatic park to see the Gh, Angle Island, Alcatraz ? Starting at the Ghirardelli building go up Hyde street (to see the Gh backwards) then back down Hyde street, back to the front of the Ghirardelli building? I am also curious about what you thoughts are on the Rock face( Regan, Lincoln, JFK) I didn't see this in your solution.

Durian, Maybe you can clarify the starting point a little more. IF "At stone wall's door" is the front of the Ghirardelli building where you should start the puzzle, how do you use the backwards Gh if you start in front of the building? If you are too see the Gh from behind the building to confirm the visual clue in the image, like you have in your solution on Hyde street, that would put you south of the Aquatic park to see the Gh, Angle Island, Alcatraz ? Starting at the Ghirardelli building go up Hyde street (to see the Gh backwards) then back down Hyde street, back to the front of the Ghirardelli building? I am also curious about what you thoughts are on the Rock face( Regan, Lincoln, JFK) I didn't see this in your solution.

Some food for thought. I think golden gate park is the site but not sure of the exact location of the casque. Have not done much research on this so go easy on me. 1: Sounds from the sky = Andean cloud forest (as seen on google maps), 2: Near ace is high = Martin Luther King Jr. Drive ( Ace is higher than a King) 3: Running north but first across = just like it sounds go across the street and head north 4 In jewels direction is an object of Twain’s attention = well if it wasn’t a giant sequoia tree then it’s music 5: Giant pole = the flag pole in the music concourse or a giant sequoia tree some where nearby 6: Giant step = now this is the difficult part but it could be the shadow cast by the pole and where the end falls at (high noon) I know it’s a big guess , could also be a giant step away from the tree. I also like the tall pole that’s in the park as a potential dig site but don’t see it fitting in the the lines easily There are other things I like about this location 1: the fountain with the cat fighting the snake , the face of the girl sort of looks cat like and the fact she is clasping her hands together like the cat that is grasping the snake and the fact that the serpent is in the image too and the location of the hands in relation to the image of the park it’s at that near end of the park. 2: I like the berry image under the hands, could represent a light from one of the light posts or if you invert it there is a berry or pineapple looking piece on top of one of the fountains dedicated to the memory of a Hearst.

Some food for thought. I think golden gate park is the site but not sure of the exact location of the casque. Have not done much research on this so go easy on me. 1: Sounds from the sky = Andean cloud forest (as seen on google maps), 2: Near ace is high = Martin Luther King Jr. Drive ( Ace is higher than a King) 3: Running north but first across = just like it sounds go across the street and head north 4 In jewels direction is an object of Twain’s attention = well if it wasn’t a giant sequoia tree then it’s music 5: Giant pole = the flag pole in the music concourse or a giant sequoia tree some where nearby 6: Giant step = now this is the difficult part but it could be the shadow cast by the pole and where the end falls at (high noon) I know it’s a big guess , could also be a giant step away from the tree. I also like the tall pole that’s in the park as a potential dig site but don’t see it fitting in the the lines easily There are other things I like about this location 1: the fountain with the cat fighting the snake , the face of the girl sort of looks cat like and the fact she is clasping her hands together like the cat that is grasping the snake and the fact that the serpent is in the image too and the location of the hands in relation to the image of the park it’s at that near end of the park. 2: I like the berry image under the hands, could represent a light from one of the light posts or if you invert it there is a berry or pineapple looking piece on top of one of the fountains dedicated to the memory of a Hearst.

Read your theory and it sounds plausible as well. I have given mine more thought on the location being golden gate park ( nothing is carved in stone) 1: At stone wall door the air smells sweet = the SanFrancisco Botanical garden entrance way has a stone wall and if you open the door then sweet smelling flowers or just the fact that there are flowers growing by the doorway. 2: Not far away high posts are 3 = there are 3 tall posts at the entranceway to the gardens along MLK jr. drive 3: Education and justice for all to see = well the streets are virtually all named after politicians ( justice ),and inside the garden area itself is a library as well the garden itself is educational 4: Sounds from the sky = planetarium across the street 5: Near ace is high = close to MLK jr. dr. (Ace is higher than a king) 6: running north but first across = go north across MLK jr. dr. 7: in jewels direction is an object of Twains attention = either the music concourse or a giant sequoia tree 8: Giant pole = flag pole , polecat maybe that cat in the fountain ( graspping at straws),or a giant sequoia tree 9: Giant step = the steps leading to the bottom of the music concourse, or a giant step away from the sequoia tree Have not given the image much attention yet

Working on the image ,not complete and could be 100% wrong. Sure The barred arched window on the top probably represents Alcatraz island that’s just a clue for locating SF.as the city Its the girl like I said , her face is almost cat like her hands go over the serpent the serpent is surrounded by blue bubbles (water) this relates to the fountain in the music concourse showing the cat grabbing the snake and the snake all coiled like in the image .It could also represent an aquarium like your solve. The berry image under the hands if inverted is like the berry on top of the Hearst fountain at the side of the music concourse The rectangular shape that the serpent is surrounded by is the shape of golden gate park. Location of the hands in relation to the park image puts it close to the west side of the park Might try to justify the other symbols later getting late.

i took your eagle to be a crow, and theres not just that one...the wings of the dragon too. btw one of coolest things you can do in SF is hang out on Twin Peaks at dusk and watch the crows float motionless in the wind, right in front of your face...so f**cking cool. large crow pops have been tracked in SF since the 50s...also connects with the telegraph hill clue (parrot in the rocks on the right). major amounts of crows in ggp too.

id say her face is sphinx like so you arent far off...maybe with the cheeks off buddha (ok definitely)...

slightly off angel island alcatraz ghiradelli...and there are places before that too...

remember, in the large context you generally follow the path the immigrants take (moultrie, ellis, and in this case angel island, starting at the immigration station; or colonists, st aug; though sometimes its different...like in mtl...where you follow the path of dutch immigrants in boer territory of south africa).

fyi durian, it was only named MLK Jr Dr in the 90s...before that it was called South Dr.

Another possibility for the checkered cuffs are that they represent the inner stone walls of the music concourse . The curl in the flower stem represents the arms of the benches. The clock on the pedestal ( now this might be a stretch) represents the sundial on the pedestal in Shakespeares’ garden. Who knows how many things have changed since 1980

I still have this notion that the final or close to final dig spot is depicted in the center or very close to the center of these 12 images.

The critical clue being in the center is just a theory until all the casques are recovered but this is something that seemed to recur in the first two locations and maybe apply to some of the other proposed solves .For the Cleveland find the planter box was part of that wall if you want to call it a wall, just that the planter box itself was not depicted.Well not exactly in the center but a pretty large sized clue none the less. I don’t think the puzzle should be that complicated to solve since the target audience was probably young males who played games like dungeons and dragons not Mensa scholars or Phd candidates ( not to say they might be interested too). I think tv shows and google earth have created a resurgence in this treasure hunt. The problem now is that fact that alot of years have gone by and all it takes is one change in the clues to throw you off track. I’m not here to find a casque . I’m here to solve a problem ,like finding Waldo. To me it’s mental gymnastics ,how we each see things in a different way, plus my vocabulary and knowledge of history gets expanded in the process . Oh , and that arched window with the bars at the top of the image,( again a big guess) could represent the metal gate bars going into the botanical garden. The bars have the same style as those in the botanical garden, ( the bars in the image don’t go right up to the top and they have pointy tips ) .

I finally found "stone wall's door". http://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... ajaxhist=0 This is Pier 43 and a very important piece to the puzzle. First of all, I believe this arch is the inspiration for Image 1 having this shape at the top of the artwork. Secondly, our lady in Image 1 is pointing to the 4th line on her sleeve to the left and the 3rd line to her sleeve on the right.....43. Thirdly, this is the pier that was used for the police boats to pick up Alcatraz prisoners and take then to the Rock....THIS IS "stone wall's door".

That's cool, I remember you mentioning your family's restaurant...I probably ate there. What was the name again? As for the arched entries, I remember seeing those up and down the different piers so I never made the connection until I read that Pier 43 was the loading area for prisoners going to Alcatraz. And then several ideas hit me at once. One of which is the 2nd line in the verse At stone wall's door The air smells sweet I believe this could mean something completely different from Ghirardelli or from flowers in GGP. Prisoners would be loaded onto Police boats for transfer to Alcatraz and once they crossed thru the arched entry way they could no longer breathe the sweet smell of freedom. May sound crazy to some, but that's what came to me.

I like everything so far. Keep it coming. Great history lesson ,wouldn’t want to pass through that door.

Let me know what you think of this. The lines “ Sounds from the sky = Galileo Academy of Science and tech “Near Ace is high= the road in Fort Mason at the SE corner called Fort Mason 11 ( Ace is an eleven) Running north but first across= directions from the Academy to this park location Fort Mason 11 area Go down Franklin st. And what do you see but an object of Twain’s attention ( the sequoia tree ) and right close To that is the Giant pole ( the flag pole ) and if you were to dig by it you would have to do a “ giant step away” Since it has asphalt surrounding it what looks like 4 feet all the way around So it could be there some where around the pole, ( it’s a big guess ) Pretty risky spot to be doing any kind of digging here , right by the park office. All you have to do would be sync it with the image and that is difficult. How about the the fingers are pointing to 3rd and 4th ave or is it 4th and 5th ave?,so the location is some where between the two streets in GGP

Diceycat wrote:: Let me know what you think of this. The lines “ Sounds from the sky = Galileo Academy of Science and tech “Near Ace is high= the road in Fort Mason at the SE corner called Fort Mason 11 ( Ace is an eleven) Running north but first across= directions from the Academy to this park location Fort Mason 11 area Go down Franklin st. And what do you see but an object of Twain’s attention ( the sequoia tree ) and right close To that is the Giant pole ( the flag pole ) and if you were to dig by it you would have to do a “ giant step away” Since it has asphalt surrounding it what looks like 4 feet all the way around So it could be there some where around the pole, ( it’s a big guess ) Pretty risky spot to be doing any kind of digging here , right by the park office. All you have to do would be sync it with the image There some compelling things here, but I'm weak on the Sounds from the sky being Galileo. Maybe Education (Galileo) and Justice (Alcatraz) for all to see. Apparently (I just looked this up) Galileo was temporarily moved to Fort Mason in the 70's during renovations to the school. Unfortunately, their website is not working to research more. Sequoia = Twain? Not what the average person would connect to Twain. Like the flagpole. Maybe someone knows Fort Mason. Maybe three posts are high are cannon batteries or guard posts that existed back in the day? Anyone else have thoughts on this? Going back to Durian's work recently, we could start making an argument for Russian Hill, Lombard St. Ghiradelli, Hyde Street turntable, etc. It's all a straight shot and all within a several city block area. That said, I still like GGP.

Sounds would be the students talking and sky would be Galileo ( telescope and all), it could be the education as well or the fact the prisoners are being educated I think Twain and sequoia link are major . Last time I was in Grant National park that was one of the big attractions. There is even a Twain sequoia tree and a pbs show about it.Other than being an author and writing a few books about Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn, I couldn’t tell you anything else about him other than the Twain sequoia . Being a Canadian,Twain was not in our educational curriculum. The thing I don’t like is it does not fit the image well at all. GGP still looks more promising ( I think).

Sounds would be the students talking and sky would be Galileo ( telescope and all), it could be the education as well or the fact the prisoners are being educated I think Twain and sequoia link are major . Last time I was in Grant National park that was one of the big attractions. There is even a Twain sequoia tree and a pbs show about it.Other than being an author and writing a few books about Tom Sawyer and Huck Finn, I couldn’t tell you anything else about him other than the Twain sequoia . Being a Canadian,Twain was not in our educational curriculum. The thing I don’t like is it does not fit the image well at all. GGP still looks more promising ( I think).

Again another wild guess for” Not far away high posts are three” could be referring to the football posts at the Galileo Academy football field and the 3 are the 3 sections of bleachers.

Again another wild guess for” Not far away high posts are three” could be referring to the football posts at the Galileo Academy football field and the 3 are the 3 sections of bleachers.

Durian I agree 100% . Do you have a solution coupling the image and verse? Unfortunately many of us don’t have the book to refer to .

Diceycat wrote:: Let me know what you think of this. The lines “ Sounds from the sky = Galileo Academy of Science and tech “Near Ace is high= the road in Fort Mason at the SE corner called Fort Mason 11 ( Ace is an eleven) Running north but first across= directions from the Academy to this park location Fort Mason 11 area Go down Franklin st. And what do you see but an object of Twain’s attention ( the sequoia tree ) and right close To that is the Giant pole ( the flag pole ) and if you were to dig by it you would have to do a “ giant step away” Since it has asphalt surrounding it what looks like 4 feet all the way around So it could be there some where around the pole, ( it’s a big guess ) Pretty risky spot to be doing any kind of digging here , right by the park office. All you have to do would be sync it with the image and that is difficult. How about the the fingers are pointing to 3rd and 4th ave or is it 4th and 5th ave?,so the location is some where between the two streets in GGP I like your ideas here Dicey. These puzzles are incredibly built and trying to dissect them is very entertaining. After learning more and more from the vets on these boards I've learned to try and go deep into meanings of the clever and not so clever words BP used. I'll put this here for the first time: Sounds from the sky - Refers to the speaker towers in National Maritime Park Near ace is high - James Polk was the 11th President of the United States, Polk St runs into NMP Running north but first across - Polk St runs North into NMP but before that it is connected to 10th St that runs across part of the city. My solve has the casque buried in the middle of NMP. It would have been an easy area to bury a casque and it was not taken control of by the National Parks until '88. As for her fingers, she is pointing to the 4th line on the left sleeve and 3rd on the right.....Pier 43

Diceycat wrote:: Let me know what you think of this. The lines “ Sounds from the sky = Galileo Academy of Science and tech “Near Ace is high= the road in Fort Mason at the SE corner called Fort Mason 11 ( Ace is an eleven) Running north but first across= directions from the Academy to this park location Fort Mason 11 area Go down Franklin st. And what do you see but an object of Twain’s attention ( the sequoia tree ) and right close To that is the Giant pole ( the flag pole ) and if you were to dig by it you would have to do a “ giant step away” Since it has asphalt surrounding it what looks like 4 feet all the way around So it could be there some where around the pole, ( it’s a big guess ) Pretty risky spot to be doing any kind of digging here , right by the park office. All you have to do would be sync it with the image and that is difficult. How about the the fingers are pointing to 3rd and 4th ave or is it 4th and 5th ave?,so the location is some where between the two streets in GGP I like your ideas here Dicey. These puzzles are incredibly built and trying to dissect them is very entertaining. After learning more and more from the vets on these boards I've learned to try and go deep into meanings of the clever and not so clever words BP used. I'll put this here for the first time: Sounds from the sky - Refers to the speaker towers in National Maritime Park Near ace is high - James Polk was the 11th President of the United States, Polk St runs into NMP Running north but first across - Polk St runs North into NMP but before that it is connected to 10th St that runs across part of the city. My solve has the casque buried in the middle of NMP. It would have been an easy area to bury a casque and it was not taken control of by the National Parks until '88. As for her fingers, she is pointing to the 4th line on the left sleeve and 3rd on the right.....Pier 43

Diceycat wrote:: Let me know what you think of this. The lines “ Sounds from the sky = Galileo Academy of Science and tech “Near Ace is high= the road in Fort Mason at the SE corner called Fort Mason 11 ( Ace is an eleven) Running north but first across= directions from the Academy to this park location Fort Mason 11 area Go down Franklin st. And what do you see but an object of Twain’s attention ( the sequoia tree ) and right close To that is the Giant pole ( the flag pole ) and if you were to dig by it you would have to do a “ giant step away” Since it has asphalt surrounding it what looks like 4 feet all the way around So it could be there some where around the pole, ( it’s a big guess ) Pretty risky spot to be doing any kind of digging here , right by the park office. All you have to do would be sync it with the image and that is difficult. How about the the fingers are pointing to 3rd and 4th ave or is it 4th and 5th ave?,so the location is some where between the two streets in GGP I like your ideas here Dicey. These puzzles are incredibly built and trying to dissect them is very entertaining. After learning more and more from the vets on these boards I've learned to try and go deep into meanings of the clever and not so clever words BP used. I'll put this here for the first time: Sounds from the sky - Refers to the speaker towers in National Maritime Park Near ace is high - James Polk was the 11th President of the United States, Polk St runs into NMP Running north but first across - Polk St runs North into NMP but before that it is connected to 10th St that runs across part of the city. My solve has the casque buried in the middle of NMP. It would have been an easy area to bury a casque and it was not taken control of by the National Parks until '88. As for her fingers, she is pointing to the 4th line on the left sleeve and 3rd on the right.....Pier 43

Durian all those links to the faces . Let me know what you think of this . Image 9 the face is that of Canadas’ glorious 1 st leader Sir John A McDonald hair, nose and all ( he was a bit of a boozer they say).

More thoughts here. How about Blue Playground in GGP as the final location ( looks like the area has been updated), I read he had a penchant for young children. Well it is one of two locations, looking again at the rectangular shape in the image it could be section of the city between Larkin and VanNess with the curve at the top being the waterfront.

Mr. Backstop , I like that solve a lot. So the pole is that concrete tower in NMP? The dragon looks like it could be made of stone with all those squares in there.

Durian Let's chew on this a second, considering our Russian lady...have you noticed how her head is shaped like an oval? To me this has a purpose, it is to represent the Bath House aka the Maritime Museum. I also see her garment as a robe ....think bath house. Another thing about her index fingers, they are pointing to the 4th and 3rd lines but they (big picture) are also pointing to her sleeve cuffs. This is referencing the handcuffs the Alcatraz prisoners would have on when being transported.

Diceycat wrote:: Mr. Backstop , I like that solve a lot. So the pole is that concrete tower in NMP? The dragon looks like it could be made of stone with all those squares in there. Exactly....as far as I'm concerned the East Speaker Tower is the Dragon in Image 1. http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... b350&gid=3

As far as the entry arch of Pier 43, I didn't say it was a Stone wall, it is stone wall's door ....stone, as in, The Rock, as in Alcatraz. This was the prisoner's doorway to board the police boat.

Here's why My starting point is Pier 43 and how to easily tie it to NMP. The San Francisco Belt Railroad was a short line that served the SF waterfront. It stopped being used in the '80s after BP was there for The Secret. You can still see some of the rails on Jefferson St. The Belt went from West of Fort Mason, under the Fort in a tunnel and ran by the Maritime Museum along the waterfront and onto Jefferson toward the East. After prisoners were processed (I believe at the Presido) they were put on a train that would go under Fort Mason, along NMP and down to Pier 43 (stone wall's door). They would then breathe their last breath of the sweet smell of Freedom and head to the Rock. Alcatraz is as iconic as it gets. That's why this is my starting point.

Giant pole - smokestack of San Francisco Pumping station #2 Giant step - East Bleachers https://commons.m.wikimedia.org/wiki/Ca ... _Francisco )#/media/File%3ASan_Francisco_Fire_Dept_Pumping_Station_No_2.jpg

Yeah, the handcuffs are a stretch as my good friend Gman likes to say but I found it a fun possibility.

I will throw this into the ring, " At stone wall's door" My inturpitation of this brings me to 6101 senior center. The Senior center is a door within a stone wall, above the door is a phoenix that is one of the better match's for the dragon in the image (head) in the illustration you have a Huge # 6 in the middle of the image, you can find two # 1's and the upside down VI with a line on top and bottom ( do not resemble any numbers with attached lines on top and bottom) this could represent the letter N, In Roman numerals there is no 0, the romans used the letter N as nulla = nothing to describe the number 0 . In the image you 61 N 1. Senior Center with match of image to a visual plus the numbers in the image to confirm. With in the address you the numbers 101 which is a part of HWY 1 ( Ace) giving you a hint of the verse "Ace is high" as you approach cross over drive on the path to the casque.

I will throw this into the ring, " At stone wall's door" My inturpitation of this brings me to 6101 senior center. The Senior center is a door within a stone wall, above the door is a phoenix that is one of the better match's for the dragon in the image (head) in the illustration you have a Huge # 6 in the middle of the image, you can find two # 1's and the upside down VI with a line on top and bottom ( do not resemble any numbers with attached lines on top and bottom) this could represent the letter N, In Roman numerals there is no 0, the romans used the letter N as nulla = nothing to describe the number 0 . In the image you 61 N 1. Senior Center with match of image to a visual plus the numbers in the image to confirm. With in the address you the numbers 101 which is a part of HWY 1 ( Ace) giving you a hint of the verse "Ace is high" as you approach cross over drive on the path to the casque.

Durian wrote:: But I see plenty of things in the SF image that are unequivocally at the waterfront. Think about that for a moment. You say "unequivocally" but the problem is that is just not true, in that every image you are using as proof, has basically been found at other places in the city. So while you definitely have a good theory going, it is in an area that has been explored extensively. That doesn't mean you are wrong. Just before you can use terms like "unequivocally" you need to find a casque. A lot of us looked that area over hard, and then passed it by. Hopefully you will have more luck. You might see something we didn't so keep going!

Durian wrote:: I guess what I'm asking by using the word "unequivocally," is where are the obvious items in GGP that are definitely in the hunt and obviously represented in the image. I'm looking at the two solved puzzles for examples. Each had real-life items from the hunt obviously represented in the image. For instance, in Cleveland you have the fountain, the back of the wall of the Italian Gardens, the pillars, and the pylon monument—all pretty obvious once you see them in the image. You can compare them easily to real life. In Chicago you have The Bowman, the Fountain of the Great Lakes, the street arrows/windows, and the fenceposts where the casque was found... Where is the equivalent of The Bowman in the San Francisco image? The thing that tells us, we're looking in the right place? And I don't mean generally SF by right place . I mean part of the hunt we can see on the ground following the verses, like The Bowman. I'm talking "so obvious a five year old can see it" type stuff. The other puzzles have them. Where are they in SF? I don't see any "aha!" images of Golden Gate Park, and I think this is a very legitimate question, given how the other solved puzzles have been shown to work. Regardless of the retrospective perceived "ease" of the Chicago and Cleveland puzzles, I think the sample size of 2 out of 12 is too small to make any assumptions about how all of the puzzles work.

Durian wrote:: I guess what I'm asking by using the word "unequivocally," is where are the obvious items in GGP that are definitely in the hunt and obviously represented in the image. I'm looking at the two solved puzzles for examples. Each had real-life items from the hunt obviously represented in the image. For instance, in Cleveland you have the fountain, the back of the wall of the Italian Gardens, the pillars, and the pylon monument—all pretty obvious once you see them in the image. You can compare them easily to real life. In Chicago you have The Bowman, the Fountain of the Great Lakes, the street arrows/windows, and the fenceposts where the casque was found... Where is the equivalent of The Bowman in the San Francisco image? The thing that tells us, we're looking in the right place? And I don't mean generally SF by right place . I mean part of the hunt we can see on the ground following the verses, like The Bowman. I'm talking "so obvious a five year old can see it" type stuff. The other puzzles have them. Where are they in SF? I don't see any "aha!" images of Golden Gate Park, and I think this is a very legitimate question, given how the other solved puzzles have been shown to work. And that is because you are absolutely 100% Correct. There are none, because Golden Gate Park is Image 1's Water tower, or Transit Building. Unfortunately that doesn't make the rest of your theory unequivocal.

Goldengate wrote:: Durian, If you're looking for a few visual clues that match up to GGP. Here are a few of my personal theories… I got too much sun this weekend, so I'm forgetting the many others that have been discussed extensively on this board. a) Strawberry — Strawberry hill b) Her crossed arms — exactly the shape as Crossover drive, which runs almost directly into Prayerbook Cross. Also nicely correlates with "but first, across” in the verse. c) 18 squares on one cuff, 20 on the other, exactly between 18th and 20th aves. (my own theory, but nobody has told me that’s just a coincidence). If those were to interpret stairs or to count lines, downward or up, why didn't both cuffs just have 20 squares? Why different? I think that matters. I think her fingers pointing in the direction of the avenues, are further calling that out. d) The triratna (three balls together in the shape of a triangle), which is the only symbol on her dress that to my knowledge can be definitively linked to an object in Golden Gate Park: The Chinese Pavilion. The Pavilion attracted great focus and a lot of press when it was installed in 1981 — the triratna, along with Chinese dragons is the most repeated design in the Pavilion. (my theory) e) The upside down VI is lined up right where the shiny and new 6th street pedestrian entrance was christened in 1981. The entrance features an opening / entryway in the "stone wall" that encircles GGP. I'm not saying that's the stone wall door but it's interesting to me and seems to be a plausible indicator of what that upside down numeral means. I know some here don't agree with some of my visual theories and I'm still not 100% it's GGP, but so far, my own visual observations combined with the hard work by others more than a decade before I happened upon the hunt three years ago, point to quite a few visual clues in GGP that are shared with the verse or image. . I think it's okay to study patterns between the different cities, but it's also fine not to take that as canon. They're different puzzles. Different verses. Different images. Different cities, with different themes. Your question is totally valid, but if each puzzle followed the same pattern, that would make for a slightly less interesting challenge, IMO. Last, yes the cable car hits the waterfront... it also is found many, many other places in The City Again, I know I’m missing a bunch… time for another round of aloe! GG, those are definitely puzzles that could resolve to those things you say, but don't rise to the kind of image that durian is asking about. I.e a straight up picture of a statue...

Durian wrote:: Please don't put words in my mouth. I never said my theory was unequivocal. If you want to quote me, please do. If you want to paraphrase, please aim for accuracy... . Don't we all agree that's a cable car? . My apologies, I mis spoke - I meant to say specifically your pictures are not unequivical. Absolutely not that is not a cable car.

Goldengate wrote:: Agreed for the most part... but I do think the Triratna does that. It's one for one in my mind. Picture of a triratna on her dress = dozens of triratnas in the Chinese Pavilion. Also since the Chinese Pavilion was new and well publicized, a lot of eyes were drawn to those symbols in the early 80s. I would agree if there were multiple images on the dress that matched symbols on the pavilion. Just under the Triratna is a symbol that is found on the Elevator at portsmouth square. It goes up/down to the parking garage. and that being said there is a Triratna on a sign across the street from portsmouth square that is a dead ringer for the one on the dress. (at least there was way back when I was investigating v6 with image 1) Thats two for two, plus others. It is an extremely common symbol, -right up there with the swirl under the rose. So no I don't think a 1 for 1 match of a common shape means anything .

yep dragons everywhere, the best match I've seen and it is admittedly not really a good match are the lamppost lanterns around Portsmouth square (and china town) no it was not state farm, it was a jewelry store if I recall correctly. they also had ying-yangs on display but they were not part of the sign. and Portsmouth square also had the up/down and it has a big RLS monument. its also famously where you can find the old keeping there eyes on the young playing. Also on the dress is a triangle next to a square, portsmouth was famous as part of the triangle trade. (they built the ships) and then the square, obviously. So Triangle-Square = Portsmouth Square... Seriously I could go on all morning.... but even with all those and many more, it was a horrible forced match. as is the pavilion.

More wild guesses 1: those blue squares represent stone , so the cuffs represent walls then you get “ stone walls” and the clasped hands could represent something “like your under arrest come with me and grabbing them by the arm”. Long arm of the law.Could also represent friendship. 2: the area above the hands with the dragons head inside represents the geographical location of some of the clues . The Roman numerals 1,2,3 represent the 1st , 2nd and 3rd streets south of the ghiradelli between Polk on the left side and Van Ness being on the right side ,of image. The names of those three streets are North Point, Francisco, and Bay. Could those words get you pointing in the right direction? Something like this “Point North Francisco Bay “ or some other combination . There is a Black Point in Fort Mason park.How about the dragons nose or mouth trying to take a bite out of Van Ness and pointing towards Fort Mason park. 3: looking at the Burton statue in the park ( via google earth),it almost looks like the watch with the table , the only problem here is that it was dedicated in 1991, was erected then? Or was there something else there in 1980? 4: looking at all those strange symbols along the lower edges of the rectangle I thought they might be found in some of those glass panels of the Fort Mason Chapel across the street from the flag pole but could not find a close match ( unless they have been replaced since)

Diceycat wrote:: 3: looking at the Burton statue in the park ( via google earth),it almost looks like the watch with the table , the only problem here is that it was dedicated in 1991, was erected then? Or was there something else there in 1980? To answer you question, no there was a path and a bush there.

Visual confirmation with in the image that relates to GGP. JFK rock face, Lincoln face, MLK face , All of these faces depicted in the image run through GGP. I would say that this pretty much puts image, and physical visual (street names) in GGP. I don't know of any of these 3 streets outside the park that can be connected other then GGP.

Goonie68 wrote:: Visual confirmation with in the image that relates to GGP. JFK rock face, Lincoln face, MLK face , All of these faces depicted in the image run through GGP. I would say that this pretty much puts image, and physical visual (street names) in GGP. I don't know of any of these 3 streets outside the park that can be connected other then GGP. MLK blvd in goldengate park cannot be part of the hunt as it wasn't named that until 1983. however JFK definitely fits the image match criteria that Durian was asking for. FYI your image link didnt work.

Ok then take out the MLK and you are left with JFK and Lincoln, that still leaves two streets in the park that I believe connects to GGP and image. I guess the question is What are these images and who do you think they are? Clearly one is a face or is it just a random rock image? I guess once we can get past what they are then this puzzle can take a positive direction. Thoughts?

MrSeabass wrote:: Those 3 faces do not exist. What then?

maltedfalcon wrote:: MLK blvd in goldengate park cannot be part of the hunt as it wasn't named that until 1983. however JFK definitely fits the image match criteria that Durian was asking for. FYI your image link didnt work. I have a map AAA from 1978 (which I have posted on this forum) It shows the street MLK that runs through GGP as it is now. So from the map it was named before 1983.

Durian wrote:: So none of you think a compass pointing north—with a cable car bell on top—paired with the lines "Sounds from the sky near ace is high" and along with multiple other visual references to cable cars and a cable car turnaround isn't a stronger street reference (North Point Street) than faces which nobody can agree belong to Lincoln, JFK, Fred Flinstone, or nobody at all? LOL, isolated like that it sure seems obvious. the trouble is, it is not isolated is it? your assumption is simply there isn't a better match for the "cable car", Table top, watch...etc. Maybe you are correct, but lets take the turntable. - not the right color, not the right shape (yes its round,) but there is a lip and a border, - also there is something in the middle (under the watch) almost like the watch is sitting on something. so out side of the turntable and the table top are circular. [and they both have the word table ] they do not match. There are other places in the city that do. so yes, I see the similarities, but nothing rises to the level of OMG! thats it! and there are much much better pairings for Sounds from the sky...

Goonie68 wrote:: I have a map AAA from 1978 (which I have posted on this forum) It shows the street MLK that runs through GGP as it is now. So from the map it was named before 1983. That is totally weird...

Not doubting you, just weird. maybe it was unnofficial before and official after... that would make sense post the print date/map legend/publisher info

Sorry 1979 map.

Goonie68 wrote:: Sorry 1979 map. Ah no -copyright 1979 print date Revision C May 1984 -so an updated map.

Ok, good catch, but Like I said take out MLK and you are still left with JFK (IMO) and the Rose (Rose Garden) touches the face.....So to me this links GGP.

Goonie68 wrote:: Ok, good catch, but Like I said take out MLK and you are still left with JFK (IMO) and the Rose (Rose Garden) touches the face.....So to me this links GGP. I can't argue with any of those but I will ask, if golden gate park is the finish and not the start, what in the image is the starting point. ie the water tower, the transit building, city hall, the land near the window, the castillo, Fort Sumter, etc...

all this talk about faces always brings me back to the larger face on the left of center. Rather than being a symbolic match for the name of something, that feature is (or was) visible on the rock wall opposite the Cliff House. Priess took a picture of an area, gave the pic to JP, and the image appears in the montage painting. This is not an abstract connecting but is a visual confirmer for the area. Maybe it is nowhere near the final treasure site, but surely it is a marker along one path to it. I have posted the comparison pics elsewhere, grabbed off the internet from someone's vacation photos but without a year for when they were taken (prior to 2011). I have since returned to the spot myself and can say that the hillside has eroded. I can identify the place where the face used to be, but the features have melted. I can imagine what it must have looked like without decades of weathering, and I assume it was an exact match back then. Call it a confirmer for the Great Highway, use it as an approach to Golden Gate Park's west entrance, or just dismiss it as general San Francisco Bay Area scenery. Whatever. I still think of that specific "face" feature in the hillside as a better use of the painting than abstract symbolism of dubious silhouettes. I once thought about using the gated arch in the painting to represent* either the Sutro Baths (which might have had such a doorway at one time in history) or a doorway-shaped hole which exists in the rocks of the Farallon Islands** out past Seal Rocks. Start out in the ocean (at the top of the page), work your way inland (past the "faces"), and end at GGP (in the middle of the page). It was an imaginary path. *represent = similar to = symbolic of... all phrases I hate in riddles and puzzles. **good image at https://www.oceanicsociety.org/whale-watching/farallons scroll down to photo by Roger Harris.

all this talk about faces always brings me back to the larger face on the left of center. Rather than being a symbolic match for the name of something, that feature is (or was) visible on the rock wall opposite the Cliff House. Priess took a picture of an area, gave the pic to JP, and the image appears in the montage painting. This is not an abstract connecting but is a visual confirmer for the area. Maybe it is nowhere near the final treasure site, but surely it is a marker along one path to it. I have posted the comparison pics elsewhere, grabbed off the internet from someone's vacation photos but without a year for when they were taken (prior to 2011). I have since returned to the spot myself and can say that the hillside has eroded. I can identify the place where the face used to be, but the features have melted. I can imagine what it must have looked like without decades of weathering, and I assume it was an exact match back then. Call it a confirmer for the Great Highway, use it as an approach to Golden Gate Park's west entrance, or just dismiss it as general San Francisco Bay Area scenery. Whatever. I still think of that specific "face" feature in the hillside as a better use of the painting than abstract symbolism of dubious silhouettes. I once thought about using the gated arch in the painting to represent* either the Sutro Baths (which might have had such a doorway at one time in history) or a doorway-shaped hole which exists in the rocks of the Farallon Islands** out past Seal Rocks. Start out in the ocean (at the top of the page), work your way inland (past the "faces"), and end at GGP (in the middle of the page). It was an imaginary path. *represent = similar to = symbolic of... all phrases I hate in riddles and puzzles. **good image at https://www.oceanicsociety.org/whale-watching/farallons scroll down to photo by Roger Harris.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I can't argue with any of those but I will ask, if golden gate park is the finish and not the start, what in the image is the starting point. ie the water tower, the transit building, city hall, the land near the window, the castillo, Fort Sumter, etc... The SF image does not have any buildings or structures in the image, which makes it tough to attach a structure to starting point from the image. The "cable car" under the table could suggest that this is the Iconic symbol of the city that we look in. IMO looking at the image and deciding through the clues, that GGP is a point of interest, seeing the dragon's head (possibly the start) and the resemblance to the Phoenix above the "stone wall's door" at the senior center gives me a starting point. To tie the senior center to the next line in the Verse "the air smells sweet" to me this is Spreckles lake (sugar company) which now takes you to JFK. As you make your way to JFK the road you walk right into the next verse "not far away high posts are three" Sutro Towers are perfectly seen as you step on JFK. I do believe that the water tower in Cleveland (downtown area) is miles away from the Cultural Gardens, not sure you can see the tower from there? So the Cable car is almost like the water tower in Cleveland, miles away and in the downtown area, both parks are a bit far from the land marks. IMO

maltedfalcon wrote:: I can't argue with any of those but I will ask, if golden gate park is the finish and not the start, what in the image is the starting point. ie the water tower, the transit building, city hall, the land near the window, the castillo, Fort Sumter, etc... The SF image does not have any buildings or structures in the image, which makes it tough to attach a structure to starting point from the image. The "cable car" under the table could suggest that this is the Iconic symbol of the city that we look in. IMO looking at the image and deciding through the clues, that GGP is a point of interest, seeing the dragon's head (possibly the start) and the resemblance to the Phoenix above the "stone wall's door" at the senior center gives me a starting point. To tie the senior center to the next line in the Verse "the air smells sweet" to me this is Spreckles lake (sugar company) which now takes you to JFK. As you make your way to JFK the road you walk right into the next verse "not far away high posts are three" Sutro Towers are perfectly seen as you step on JFK. I do believe that the water tower in Cleveland (downtown area) is miles away from the Cultural Gardens, not sure you can see the tower from there? So the Cable car is almost like the water tower in Cleveland, miles away and in the downtown area, both parks are a bit far from the land marks. IMO

catherwood wrote:: all this talk about faces always brings me back to the larger face on the left of center. Rather than being a symbolic match for the name of something, that feature is (or was) visible on the rock wall opposite the Cliff House. Priess took a picture of an area, gave the pic to JP, and the image appears in the montage painting. This is not an abstract connecting but is a visual confirmer for the area. Maybe it is nowhere near the final treasure site, but surely it is a marker along one path to it. I have posted the comparison pics elsewhere, grabbed off the internet from someone's vacation photos but without a year for when they were taken (prior to 2011). I have since returned to the spot myself and can say that the hillside has eroded. I can identify the place where the face used to be, but the features have melted. I can imagine what it must have looked like without decades of weathering, and I assume it was an exact match back then. Call it a confirmer for the Great Highway, use it as an approach to Golden Gate Park's west entrance, or just dismiss it as general San Francisco Bay Area scenery. Whatever. I still think of that specific "face" feature in the hillside as a better use of the painting than abstract symbolism of dubious silhouettes. I once thought about using the gated arch in the painting to represent* either the Sutro Baths (which might have had such a doorway at one time in history) or a doorway-shaped hole which exists in the rocks of the Farallon Islands** out past Seal Rocks. Start out in the ocean (at the top of the page), work your way inland (past the "faces"), and end at GGP (in the middle of the page). It was an imaginary path. *represent = similar to = symbolic of... all phrases I hate in riddles and puzzles. **good image at https://www.oceanicsociety.org/whale-watching/farallons scroll down to photo by Roger Harris. I would love to see more about this face! I don't think I ever saw your comparison before. if you can find your old posts I would love to read/see them.

catherwood wrote:: all this talk about faces always brings me back to the larger face on the left of center. Rather than being a symbolic match for the name of something, that feature is (or was) visible on the rock wall opposite the Cliff House. Priess took a picture of an area, gave the pic to JP, and the image appears in the montage painting. This is not an abstract connecting but is a visual confirmer for the area. Maybe it is nowhere near the final treasure site, but surely it is a marker along one path to it. I have posted the comparison pics elsewhere, grabbed off the internet from someone's vacation photos but without a year for when they were taken (prior to 2011). I have since returned to the spot myself and can say that the hillside has eroded. I can identify the place where the face used to be, but the features have melted. I can imagine what it must have looked like without decades of weathering, and I assume it was an exact match back then. Call it a confirmer for the Great Highway, use it as an approach to Golden Gate Park's west entrance, or just dismiss it as general San Francisco Bay Area scenery. Whatever. I still think of that specific "face" feature in the hillside as a better use of the painting than abstract symbolism of dubious silhouettes. I once thought about using the gated arch in the painting to represent* either the Sutro Baths (which might have had such a doorway at one time in history) or a doorway-shaped hole which exists in the rocks of the Farallon Islands** out past Seal Rocks. Start out in the ocean (at the top of the page), work your way inland (past the "faces"), and end at GGP (in the middle of the page). It was an imaginary path. *represent = similar to = symbolic of... all phrases I hate in riddles and puzzles. **good image at https://www.oceanicsociety.org/whale-watching/farallons scroll down to photo by Roger Harris. I would love to see more about this face! I don't think I ever saw your comparison before. if you can find your old posts I would love to read/see them.

Goonie68 wrote:: I do believe that the water tower in Cleveland (downtown area) is miles away from the Cultural Gardens, not sure you can see the tower from there? So the Cable car is almost like the water tower in Cleveland, miles away and in the downtown area, both parks are a bit far from the land marks. IMO yes that is true, In Chicago and in Cleveland a methodology to get from the landmark to the park was included in the image. this holds true for Milwaukee, Boston, St Augustine, Charleston, New Orleans and New York, In Roanoke, the method is in the verse, In Montreal, it is still up in the air. The trouble is we only find the methodology works in SF if the landmark is golden gate park. and we have to keep in mind that SF was supposed to be simple, so a good guess is it would follow the method of other simple ones, (Chicago/Cleveland)

maltedfalcon wrote:: I can't argue with any of those but I will ask, if golden gate park is the finish and not the start, what in the image is the starting point. ie the water tower, the transit building, city hall, the land near the window, the castillo, Fort Sumter, etc... Start is at the top of the image...which I think is at the top of the rock wall of Huntington Falls...what else do you think those rock walls represent?

maltedfalcon wrote:: yes that is true, In Chicago and in Cleveland a methodology to get from the landmark to the park was included in the image. this holds true for Milwaukee, Boston, St Augustine, Charleston, New Orleans and New York, In Roanoke, the method is in the verse, In Montreal, it is still up in the air. The trouble is we only find the methodology works in SF if the landmark is golden gate park. and we have to keep in mind that SF was supposed to be simple, so a good guess is it would follow the method of other simple ones, (Chicago/Cleveland) Not so sure on the simple part LOL , So Chicago for instance would be Water tower to Bowman to loop. SF could be Cable car to Dragon's head to....?

Is it possible that the verse for Chicago might've been attempted as a fit for SF? Where M and B are set in stone could've been perceived as rails set into the streets. Checking routes M or B could've been one of the challenges of applying the wrong verse to an image. Anyone agree/disagree?

maybe if M&B were set in asphalt

Well in Chicago Vermeers girl with pearl earring is a horrible match , she has a pearl earring, not a dangly one. she is facing the other way and looking back over her shoulder, the background is black. really not much of a match. Compared to Grant on the 50$ bill... Also grant points us to Grant park In cleveland it looks like he based the image on several styles of equestrian statue. but c'mon say it with me. Rockefeller Centaur (a pun a new yorker couldn't resist) points us to Rockefeller Park In Chicago you start where you can match the view of the water tower and travel in the direction the portrait is looking N. Michigan Ave (heading left or south) go until you see something in the image and that is your sign to turn. so basically you go until you see the bowman and turn into grant park. In Cleveland you start where you can see the transit tower. its a square that circles counter clockwise. you have to follow the turns but only one street goes straight off the square, euclid, all the others you have to turn onto. Now you go until you see something in the image, and that is Triangle Square, a Big sign on the corner of Ford (the logo was the same triangle that is in the picture, Turn left (thats the way the triangle points) and you are on ford ave. Ford flows onto East ave . East ave (no longer does) but in 1980 drove right to the Columns. so basically the shown methodology is a landmark, a path that only has turnoffs when shown by an image. to a park. Besides the two found casques this method has been shown to work hypothetically in most of the other cities. As far as "DaVinci" glow - yes DaVinci is credited with coming up with this 500 years ago, but it wasn't until the late 1990s and early 2000's when people started writing articles about it that it became a thing that the average person would have had a chance to read about, remember these puzzles were created to be solved in the days before the internet. It's a reach... especially when there are so many other goood things we can associate with the spheres.

Goonie68 wrote:: [ Not so sure on the simple part LOL , So Chicago for instance would be Water tower to Bowman to loop. SF could be Cable car to Dragon's head to....? Technically it entered the loop once it crossed the DuSable Bridge so water tower (a specific spot) to the bowman (another specific spot) If SF is the Cable Car, - which cable car (a specific spot) ? and what specific spot is the Dragon's head?

is dragons head on goonies dragon at the senior center? otherwise i know the answer lol. i always thought the dragon was a combo of 3 dragons he takes you by in the puzzle.

JamesV wrote:: Quick follow-up to the previous post on St.Mary's square...apparently there's also a "White House" right across the street from the statue that WhiteRabbit found. It looks to be a public parking garage now, but it's apparently also some kind of historic SF landmark which might further suggest an I1/V6 pairing. Link: http://thewhitehousegaragesf.com Also: just learned that Title 8 of the US code deals with the role of aliens and nationality in the United States, and Chapter 8 of this code specifically deals with Chinese immigrants. No joke...this is officially titled as "The Cooly Trade". Link: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_8_o ... tates_Code Could the Chinese Exclusion Act, enacted in 1882 and repealed in 1943, possible be the inspiration for the couplet "Or on the eighth a scene / Where law defended"? Again, unsure if there's any historical markers or similar nearby, but it seems to fit well with both I1 and the immigration theme. Also interesting: The adjacent park from St. Mary's, the Union Square shopping area, was built up over a sand dune... (Link: http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/arti ... 731306.php ) Self-bump, I1/V6. Just wanted to share this interesting article which touches on Chinese immigration & the earliest civil rights laws: https://hoodline.com/2015/08/yick-wo-an ... late-1800s Unknown if this case, or any of these similar ones, might possibly fit into an I1/V6 interpretation as "a scene where law defended"? ( http://teachingresources.atlas.illinois ... ce_2_4.pdf ) If so, I'd assume there'd probably have to be a historical plaque, marker or something similar nearby, preferably within walking distance of Chinatown.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Technically it entered the loop once it crossed the DuSable Bridge so water tower (a specific spot) to the bowman (another specific spot) If SF is the Cable Car, - which cable car (a specific spot) ? and what specific spot is the Dragon's head? The specific spot would be the start of California street where the California Cable Car line starts. It runs west, once the line stops you continue down California street to you reach Lincoln park(face in the illustration IMO) then you use 38th ave(38 blocks in the sleeve) to get you to the park, walk west then you see the Senior Center with the Dragon, the verse starts there. California street, you have a Cable car line (iconic image) The colors of the dress are blue and gold (California's official colors) California street Along California street you pass a few possible illustration images, St. Marys Cathedral church ( California and Grant) Roman numerals on the clock, across the street is the Cathay House Restaurant (which is a land mark to china town) On the building there are Two Yin and Yang plaques(on the dress), continue down California street you reach 11th ave and on the corner is a house with a dome roof, (Moons) The stretch of California street is under 6 miles. I believe Cleveland was about 7 miles from Tower to garden.

The final location. Since many believe as I do that the final resting spot is somehow illustrated close to the center in the images this is the location of the casque ( at least in my mind). That thing that looks like a berry under the hands is a pine cone which represents the pine cone of a giant sequoia so the giant sequoia is the giant pole and all you have to do is one giant step away from the tree to find the casque. I feel certain that Twain’s attention was the giant sequoia. Now is the tree in GGP or the Maritime park? It’s probably the tallest tree or the only tree close by using the other clues for location.

if anything, a pinecone would point you to the McLaren statue...not a unknown sequoia tree...

There is a lone sequoia just north of the east side speaker in NMP and as far as GGP goes I would guess the tallest one just east of the music concourse area

not a consistent (or good) use of pole...id keep trying...

Let me further refine the location if it is located in GGP it will be the sequoia between the 3 rd and 4th ave ( if those are the streets the fingers are pointing to. To me the fingers are pointing to a region in between let’s say the 3rd ave. So he could be referencing below 3rd ave or between 3rd and 4 th ave.). The tree might be in that memorial garden east of the music concourse by the tallest sequoia or a bit further east of that . In the images the fingers point to the general location it seems

fingers point in 2 totally opposite directions. in relation to ggp they most definitely point to where hwy 1 enters and exits the park, without question.

Do the pointing fingers seem to indicate "3" and "4" by counting the blocks? That may develop interest in the intersection of 34th street at GGP. Is/was that an important streetcar stop for any reason?

This would possibly be the final location in GGP. My refined guess The shapes (outlines),the fingers make on the arm indicate features in GGP. On the right side is the outline of Stow Lake , on the left side is the outline of Spreckles lake and that dark area in the center where the two hands cross is one of two possibilities either Lindley Meadow or West Hellman Hollow ( they hold concerts here in West Hellman ,as well ,might have something to do with sounds from the sky). Someone was saying there was at one time a giant pole at Lindley Meadow and now gone .

That’s it 34 th street intersecting with Lindley Meadow. Can anyone produce a photo of that tall pole that stood here and it’s precise location ? Or is there any other tall sequoia at this crosssection of 34 and Lindley? Bingo! That’s it the casque was a giant step away from the” Godess of the forest”that big sequoia tree stump like the one in Grant national park that is named after Twain!!!

Diceycat wrote:: That’s it 34 th street intersecting with Lindley Meadow. Can anyone produce a photo of that tall pole that stood here and it’s precise location ? Or is there any other tall sequoia at this crosssection of 34 and Lindley? Bingo! That’s it the casque was a giant step away from the” Godess of the forest”that big sequoia tree stump like the one in Grant national park that is named after Twain!!! The one place in SF I know the casque is not, is one giant step away from "The Goddess of the Forest" in any direction.

maltedfalcon wrote:: The one place in SF I know the casque is not, is one giant step away from "The Goddess of the Forest" in any direction. LOL, man you tried so hard, I respect that.

SF is way out of hand. So many people with different views and attempts at different locations, and so few things actually known for certain. This is one of those cities that seems harder on several levels. Twain would be proud...

erexere wrote:: SF is way out of hand. So many people with different views and attempts at different locations, and so few things actually known for certain. This is one of those cities that seems harder on several levels. Twain would be proud... You know, before this board turned into a shitshow, I was thinking that we should pool our resources and have a casque of the month club. Everyone focus on one location and solve it. Get some able bodied volunteers to dig. But alas, let's hand the mic to Josh...

erexere wrote:: SF is way out of hand. So many people with different views and attempts at different locations, and so few things actually known for certain. This is one of those cities that seems harder on several levels. Twain would be proud... and by value/difficulty scale, should be in the top 3 of easiest.

I read somewhere that people would often get off at 34th street and walk up to the Legion of Honor. That's the area that I feel holds the most potential. The endgame of that area seems to have presented more difficulty than expected.

erexere wrote:: I read somewhere that people would often get off at 34th street and walk up to the Legion of Honor. That's the area that I feel holds the most potential. The endgame of that area seems to have presented more difficulty than expected. Get off of what? A bus? The street cars have not run to GGP for a long time.

the funny thing is that there is only one twain clue that works. the others all do not work. im very surprised im only one whos picked up on it, and you know what i know it is. lol

Why is everyone set on the verse matchup with this image? I agree that the image suggests SF, but all of the stuff i've read on here just seems a stretch to fit the verse. Also, it seems like the symbols on the dress, both the ones on the horizontal that someone compared to topographical symbols and the ones below, some roman numerals, letters, symbols? all seem to be more than random decoration. Maybe there is something there that could help narrow things down a bit.

clarkrock7 wrote:: Why is everyone set on the verse matchup with this image? I agree that the image suggests SF, but all of the stuff i've read on here just seems a stretch to fit the verse. Also, it seems like the symbols on the dress, both the ones on the horizontal that someone compared to topographical symbols and the ones below, some roman numerals, letters, symbols? all seem to be more than random decoration. Maybe there is something there that could help narrow things down a bit. A great question! and the answer is because of all the other verses. Obviously you can't just look at one verse So 12 verses, 12 cities/images, 2 of each are already used. leaving 10/10 so if you want to try a different verse say verse 6 with image 1- are you also suggesting that 7 goes with charleston? cause currently 6 seems to go with charleston(image2) but if 7 is not SF then maybe it does belong with new orleans, which would free up verse 2 - so does 2 go with 2? you begin to see the picture. but that of course is not a reason to not try other verses. Also keep in mind that what you see on Q4T or the wiki or Facebook, is just the tip of the iceberg many people are working and have ideas and are trying things that never ever get posted. If you are looking for the method that undeniably links an image with a verse- I am sure there is one, just nobody has ever figured it out - there are lots of theories that kind of work, work sometimes, or even work most of the time, but nothing that works all the time. It would be great if you could figure that out!

maltedfalcon wrote:: The one place in SF I know the casque is not, is one giant step away from "The Goddess of the Forest" in any direction. So you dug or even probed 3 feet down all the way around this tree 3 to 5 feet away from the base? How do you define a giant step? Just curious but how many days did it take you to do that?

he dug all around it

MrBackstop wrote:: https://sfmta.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Powell-Cable-Cars/G0000eEsx6rmQeQ0/I0000A7H3WSfKXrk/C00001T4YTtxFMnU I had someone ask me about what I thought the giant pole and giant step were and I believe this photo shows clearly what I'm talking about. Giant pole - smokestack from SF Pumping Station #2 Giant step - East bleachers of the Maritime Museum This photo is from '62 and I have seen other photos from '75 that have the smokestack. I realize it was not around in some photos from the '90s. Do any locals know when that stack got taken down? Or perhaps it went down in '89?

ah, finally a place where I can post a reply, I'm new here, still learning, I live in SF btw. reason I discovered this Secret book was by random to this guy's Reddit page which he claim he and his friend have found the box yet he refuse to answer any questions, LOL. so yea, that's how I started.... so, anybody here have a Congress Library card that can pull out the maps and share here?

erexere wrote:: I read somewhere that people would often get off at 34th street and walk up to the Legion of Honor. That's the area that I feel holds the most potential. The endgame of that area seems to have presented more difficulty than expected. .......so that's why there's a 38 over the hair? hahaha, nice find

Since Maltedfalcon dug or probed extensively around the area of the goddess of the forest then tell me what you think of the shape of the piece of land just to the immediate south of Sprekels lake , this little island of land has the same shape as the black space made by the hands ( wrists),where they cross over in the middle, could it be in this location was it checked out as well ( no one is saying where the goddess of the forests exact location was)

Diceycat wrote:: (no one is saying where the goddess of the forests exact location was) Research. The location was certainly pinpointed and discussed years ago when maltedfalcon did his dig (with permission). I tried a quick Google search to see how deep the details are, and instead I found yet another discussion forum with yet another solve --("somewhere near Strawberry Hill by Stow Lake" if you're curious, see tripadvisor.com and a January 2018 thread) -- and right there it says the Goddess was in Lindley Meadow. I haven't been there myself, but my understanding is that there is still a stump or a cement base or at least some residue which was left behind when the totem pole sculpture was removed. Oh, here's another thing Google led me to... a description of the dig TEN years ago. http://www.sparkletack.com/2008/06/11/a ... francisco/

are you talking about the thing right underneath where the hand of the women crossover? that place over the wiki of pbwork called "strawberry"?

ok, since I'm new here( but I've lived in the inner Richmond for the past 24 years fyi. ) what exactly make you guys so sure that it's in GGP? give me something that make sense please. I wanted to convince myself as well, but ..... what exactly you see that make it so sure it's in Golden Gate Park? Matter of fact, what makes you think image 1 even refers to San Francisco to begin with?

Spiritr wrote:: are you talking about the thing right underneath where the hand of the women crossover? that place over the wiki of pbwork called "strawberry"? Im calling the strawberry looking thing under wrists the representation of a giant sequoia pinecone. The black space between the wrists is in the same shape as the small island of land right beside south side of Sprekels lake . Might be coincidence but there’s only 3 tall trees on this piece of land (“ high posts are 3 “maybe , just a thought). Maybe some local could poke around the giant sequoia on this piece of land.

Diceycat wrote:: So you dug or even probed 3 feet down all the way around this tree 3 to 5 feet away from the base? How do you define a giant step? Just curious but how many days did it take you to do that? over a period of 3 months, I dug the entire circumference from the cement out 5+ feet (minimum 5 feet) some directions farther. depth 4 feet and then probed with a soil probe (in all directions) . I figured out the weight of the dirt (mostly sand) I moved once, it was in excess of 2 tons. I had help (friends, family, at times even the groundskeepers came to dig.) I also searched directly in front of it out about 40 feet probing (not digging) just in case the giant step was actually a step taken by the goddess of the forest, (i figured out how long her legs were and did the math.) There were two cast iron irrigation pipes. near but they were about 100 years old but in front about 5 feet from the plinth runs a east/west pvc irrigation pipe set at a depth of 4 feet. My concern was the trencher for this pipe ran right through the casque. So I found the trencher that had been used the next time they used it I dropped a flower pot into the trench in front of it. I measured how far the pieces of the flower pot were displaced laterally and then I went back and dug there left and right along the pipe. looking for pieces, -no pieces found. most importantly - there are no images in the picture that confirm that as the location, while it fits the verse perfectly, (with the exception of a real good twain reference- which is why I dug completely around it) . but a good verse fit is not enough as we see from Chicago and Cleveland, there should be actual things in the image you see from the casque site or at least right nearby, (Chicago, fence, fixture) (cleveland, wall, stones, fountain columns) In lindley meadow there is zilch.

here's the part I cut from a 1975 map, and here's something I suggested that would look more like it, it even match the side and the top as will.....

Maltedfalcon have you considered the small island of land beside the south side of Sprekels lake since it’s a close match for the outline of the black space between the wrists ( in the middle) in the image?

Diceycat wrote:: Maltedfalcon have you considered the small island of land beside the south side of Sprekels lake since it’s a close match for the outline of the black space between the wrists ( in the middle) in the image? 37.769855, -122.494952 ? that's a HUGE area

I live at 32nd, while the sun still up, let me go take a walk

Diceycat wrote:: Maltedfalcon have you considered the small island of land beside the south side of Sprekels lake since it’s a close match for the outline of the black space between the wrists ( in the middle) in the image? no I didnt

Spiritr wrote:: 37.769855, -122.494952 ? that's a HUGE area not sure where you got those values but... it's safe to figure that the sixth decimal place in one decimal degree has 111,111/10^6 = about 1/9 meter = about 4 inches of precision. or basically the size of the casque...

those are just for you to copy and paste so google can pin point the exact location you were saying, and I'm trying to confirm if that's the area you're referring ok, fine, i'll do this, 37°46'11.5"N 122°29'41.8"W , is this the area?

Spiritr wrote:: those are just for you to copy and paste so google can pin point the exact location you were saying, and I'm trying to confirm if that's the area you're referring ok, fine, i'll do this, 37°46'11.5"N 122°29'41.8"W , is this the area? that is the area diceycat asked about and no I have not looked there at all other then when I was looking everywhere for a giant pole. I did check out the polo grounds just south of there though and the angling pool (fishing poles?) LOL

I'm back, finally got to see what you're talking about , the little square that has grass on it right? I was there right on time, the minute I walk back to JFK the sprinkler start watering the lawn all at once, LOL it was ....wood am I correct? it's a wood statue right? pole shape

Spiritr wrote:: I'm back, finally got to see what you're talking about , the little square that has grass on it right? I was there right on time, the minute I walk back to JFK the sprinkler start watering the lawn all at once, LOL it was ....wood am I correct? it's a wood statue right? pole shape It’s that small piece of land that splits JFK drive in two beside south side of Spreckels lake . I’m thinking it could be a giant step away from a giant sequoia ( giant pole),if one is growing in this section of land ( not sure which tree is a giant sequoia off of google). There are other possible locations that match the verses better but not so much the image such as Blue Playground , looks like the playground has been updated,(Twain liked children), or 37 degrees 46 ‘ 21” N , 122 degrees 28’ 08” W or 37degrees46’ 21”N , 122 degrees 28’ 05” W if you like the sequoia theory. It’s a challenge for sure. You could also say Koret playground could be the final spot by the giant pole “maybe”, but the image doesn’t fit the location so it’s a guess for now.

Spiritr wrote:: I'm back, finally got to see what you're talking about , the little square that has grass on it right? I was there right on time, the minute I walk back to JFK the sprinkler start watering the lawn all at once, LOL it was ....wood am I correct? it's a wood statue right? pole shape if you are talking about the goddess base it is cement square about 3 feet tall and 8 feet accross with a circular depression in the top that filled with dirt and might/mightnot have grass growing. depending on how dry it got the statue was a totem pole carved during the pacific pan exposition from a single redwood sequoia tree it was orginally quite tall but the wood set in the inset in the cement and as it rained it filled with water and did not drain so every couple years they would lift the totem up with a crane and chainsaw off the bottom and set it back down by the 80s it was 1/2 the size it started at, and soon after was entirely taken down. (the remains are in a museum in downtown SF.)

Twain like money, gold, or silver. Literature maybe First of all, I think the key is keep it simple, then put yourself in 1980, no internet, no Wikipedia, only source of info someone could obtain was first and for sure the image, and then, maps, signature buildings or mounuments, The clues or message are very straight forward, if you have to spend hours looking over Wikipedia or history of a certain name or people, you are playing it wrong. And the location! I guaranteed you it’s so precise and accurate if you dig more than 2 times in a same location that means you still haven’t figured it out yet! The reason why the Chicago one was found is because 1. They got 80% of the puzzles right, 2, the kid actually made a phone call to Preiss and got the glue in that conversation! But the exact locations was in the verse and in the image already, so percise If you have a smartphone today it will lead you stand right on top of it! So is the one in Cleveland. I will respect all suggestions until it’s found. That’s how I see it, if you want to see certain part of the park , I don’t have any problems going in or even give you a video footage anyway you like, I have drone I have go pro, like I said I love right next to the park, if I have time, I don’t mind.

for, for the "forest goddess" , if we are talking about this one: enough said, I'm all in for this one! just by looking at that thing on top of her head I would say it's definitely a clue but if you're talking about this one: then I will say forget it, I simply don't think it connects at all....

Spiritr wrote:: here's the part I cut from a 1975 map, https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/myCwd ... 20-h974-rw and here's something I suggested that would look more like it, it even match the side and the top as will..... https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/TXEJ5 ... 20-h974-rw Unknown: https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/OmekU ... 0-h1776-rw Your embedded code wasn't showing anything for me, just the word "image", so I removed the tags and it still won't let me access them. It's probably a user security thing, oh well. Same problem with the other link in the last post. I think you are trying to link to something only you can see on your computer or within a private account.

oh no....really? I did made it public tho......emmm why? it's nothing major but see if this help https://drive.google.com/file/d/14vUXWL ... S0Y4J/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/11AE6uU ... XF44c/view https://drive.google.com/file/d/1M2SY-m ... gPsmz/view let me know if still not showing...... now, I think, I am only 2 steps away for my first dig, I'm just missing 2 key elements right now 1. a camera man 2. tools to dig

The small piece of land that splits JFK by Sprekles lake in Golden Gate Park is the rhododendron island...From 2003-2004 the island was heavily dug up and renovated. Plants and trees that were non-native and neglected were removed and new rhododendrons were planted to bring the island back to its glory. So there is a very good chance that if it was buried there it is no longer there. I lived in the city at 37th and remember them tearing that section up, it was a huge mess. Drove through there yesterday and the rhodys are so beautiful in full bloom. Also keep in mind if you want to dig in the park you will need to fill out a dig permit request. It took almost 3 weeks for me to get a dig time.. They were strict with the hour limit. The guy was 10 minutes late and we did not get that extra time, so we had 50 minutes... you must supply your own tools and a tarp for the dirt and no filming was allowed. It is amazing how fast an hour can go by... Have fun

i didnt fill out any forms...i just convinced the grounds crew to let me dig...but i dug at wrong spot lol...

Tamaari wrote:: From 2003-2004 the island was heavily dug up and renovated. Plants and trees that were non-native and neglected were removed and new rhododendrons were planted to bring the island back to its glory. So there is a very good chance that if it was buried there it is no longer there. I completely disagree, if you're saying from 2013-2014....yea, maybe, whatever you're concerning might be a possibility. Some even CONCLUDED "only way this solution can ever be completely resolved is by cutting into the path, lifting out an asphalt slab, and digging underneath. It's not a difficult or expensive operation (road crews do the same thing every day when they repair potholes) but it's not something that can be done by a casual searcher with hand tools."( I read it in the wiki). That's negative thinking, no good. Don't blame the game when you didn't win, that's lame. My way of thinking is really simple, if I'm the one that buried the treasure, I will most likely check on it from time to time to see if it's still discover-able, unless you're telling me Mr. Preiss doesn't even know how to use google map. Otherwise, everything is still here upon 2014-2015. If work has been done to the site and the box is no longer discover-able. I'm sure he will announce his reader, given it fair to those who had it right. And motivae the rest of us over North America who still going after his story. Right?

Spiritr wrote:: I completely disagree, if you're saying from 2013-2014....yea, maybe, whatever you're concerning might be a possibility. Some even CONCLUDED "only way this solution can ever be completely resolved is by cutting into the path, lifting out an asphalt slab, and digging underneath. It's not a difficult or expensive operation (road crews do the same thing every day when they repair potholes) but it's not something that can be done by a casual searcher with hand tools."( I read it in the wiki). That's negative thinking, no good. Don't blame the game when you didn't win, that's lame. My way of thinking is really simple, if I'm the one that buried the treasure, I will most likely check on it from time to time to see if it's still discover-able, unless you're telling me Mr. Preiss doesn't even know how to use google map. Otherwise, everything is still here upon 2014-2015. If work has been done to the site and the box is no longer discover-able. I'm sure he will announce his reader, given it fair to those who had it right. And motivae the rest of us over North America who still going after his story. Right? I am not quite sure where you are speaking about "cutting into the path, lifting out an asphalt slab" And I am sure Mr. Preiss would surely know how and would use google maps if he were still alive to do so. Upon his death in 2005 he took the location of every burial spot with him. I would love to believe that he would have given more clues to finding these final 10 treasure spots, as I am sure he wanted these to be found. In the summer of 2003 volunteers assembled on site on a regular basis to clean up the patch of land, remove the plants that didn't belong and re-introduce different varieties of rhododendrons and azaleas. It took the volunteer group an entire year, but in the summer of 2004 they completed their project transforming this patch of land back to a garden filled with rhododendrons, azaleas and different tree species. Also...In 1995, the site suffered severe damage after a strong windstorm uprooted hundreds of mature
 trees that shielded the plants from the sun. Many rhododendrons fell victim to the excessive heat. To make matters worse, a poor drainage system led to erosion. In 2010, a newly renovated space for the Rhododendron Dell was unveiled. Today, the gardeners of Golden Gate Park are also more successful in safeguarding healthy vegetation in the Dell. The Dell is a small traffic island that divides John F. Kennedy Drive and the 36th Avenue entrance.

I don’t think the road splits like that anywhere else in the park and why would they do that unless there was something significant growing there like a big old tree, maybe .What would help is photos of this area from the 1980s and all the other suspect locations. Anyone Would they have dug 3 feet down? Might be asking for too much but does anyone know who the volunteers were that repaired the dell and if they happened to find the casque?

They tore it up pretty good to put in a new drainage system, so it is very possible it could have been dug up and they never even knew about it (if this is the burial spot).

Unknown: I would love to believe that he would have given more clues to finding these final 10 treasure spots, as I am sure he wanted these to be found. Sentiments like the one above are often repeated on this forum and elsewhere, but all evidence suggests that the exact opposite was true. Preiss was made aware by several people well before his death that there was renewed interest in his hunt, and if anything, he went out of his way to obstruct their progress. In all fairness, twenty years had passed and there really was no upside for him (and considerable downside), so his reticence was understandable. What's more likely IMO is that he would have eventually gotten fed up with being badgered (think JJP), called off the hunt (not sure what the legal implications of that would have been), had the remaining casques dug up privately, and possibly issued a short explanation of each puzzle and how it worked. And that would have been the end of it.

What do you think of this idea ( big stretch). There is a tree by the sidewalk along JFK dr. ,looks like an old sequoia (fenced in by a wooden fence) co-ordinates 37 degrees 46’ 20 “ by 122 degrees 28’ 09” . My question has to do with the dark shapes made by the roots crisis crossing and the shapes on the tree trunk itself . Could the dark spot between the wrists on the image be referencing to a dark spot of the same shape at the tree base? Just a wild guess

Diceycat wrote:: What do you think of this idea ( big stretch). There is a tree by the sidewalk along JFK dr. ,looks like an old sequoia (fenced in by a wooden fence) co-ordinates 37 degrees 46’ 20 “ by 122 degrees 28’ 09” . My question has to do with the dark shapes made by the roots crisis crossing and the shapes on the tree trunk itself . Could the dark spot between the wrists on the image be referencing to a dark spot of the same shape at the tree base? Just a wild guess I think the idea is good. But when applied to the image, does it match? Along with those numbers. Yesterday I was missing 2 keys to the puzzle, now I have 3. 1.digging tools 2.camera man 3. How exactly do people made comments and edit pages in thesecret.pbworks??? I’ve tried requesting to join for almost 2 weeks already. And nothing....

i think you need to get off the tree crack, thats what i think lol.

Goldengate wrote:: It's an interesting way to turn the phrase, and in theory it works. For me it's a little bit of a journey to get from The Rock to "stone wall's." That said, if there's a plaque or even 1981 tourist guide that references 43 as an official Alcatraz prisoner departure point, it would be a GREAT revelation... I'm just dubious of Google dives replacing direct 1981 contemporary references... one of the reasons for my doubt is the quote below from, yes, I know, an internet site: http://www.alcatraz101.com . While there is no mention of Pier 43 as one of the departure points for prisoners, it doesn't mean it's not true -- or that you are not correct, I'd just love to see some 1981 information that Preiss could have readily referenced on a walking tour of the area: "Shipments of inmates from the other federal prisons followed. These inmates would be pulled out of their cells, put in handcuffs and leg shackles, linked together in a "chain" with connecting waist irons, then loaded onto a special train, described as a "rolling prison", and transported across the country. The train cars were uncoupled at secluded docks on San Francisco Bay, in Richmond and Tiburon, then pushed onto a barge and tugged over to Alcatraz. The inmates would step off the train right onto The Rock. After these initial shipments, replacement inmates came to Alcatraz individually or in small groups, following more conventional prisoner transit procedures. The final point of departure for these inmates was Fort Mason, right next to Muni Pier in San Francisco. There they boarded the prison launch for their short ride to a long stay at Alcatraz." Additionally I've read they kept a vehicle at Ft. Mason exclusively as prisoner transport for court appearances. Again, not saying you're wrong at all, I've read a couple online references to 43 / Alcatraz as well, but if 43 was only one of multiple departure points for Alcatraz prisoners and information about it wasn't reasonably accessible in 81, it becomes a little less "rock solid" (sorry, terrible pun). Again, your theory is totally interesting, I'm just playing the devil's advocate. GG, yeah I saw this and other info regarding the prisoners first populating Alcatraz. But after it was established, new prisoners would be processed and put on the Belt Railroad and take over to Pier 43. From there they would be handed over to the Police boats on their way to the Rock. In fact, the reason the woman has her arms crossed in my solve is to represent the Belt Railroad which ran from the West Side of Fort Mason, under the Fort and down Jefferson to access the piers. So when you see the Lincoln face next to the Fish face on the left side of our Russian lady that is letting us know that the Belt Railroad used to run somewhere from around Lincoln Blvd over thru Fisherman's Wharf.

Durian wrote:: All right. This is a little crazy, but just maybe not. Please indulge me for a moment... The painting is pretty clearly an homage to Da Vinci's painting the "Madonna of the Rocks." Interestingly, the moons in the image might be a tip of the hat to Da Vinci as well—and a clue. How? Modern science credits Da Vinci as being the first person ever to correctly explain the phenomena of "earthshine." What is earthshine? It's the glow the moon gets around it's edge from light reflected from the earth. It is referred to today as "Da Vinci Glow." NASA has an entire page dedicated to it: https://www.nasa.gov/vision/universe/watchtheskies/04oct_leonardo.html If you look up "Da Vinci Glow" on Wikipedia you are redirected to the entry for "earthshine." Here is how Da Vinci drew it from his observations: Now, almost all of the moons in the image (if not all) have this Da Vinci Glow. You don't have to draw a moon this way... but the artist did. I think he put this touch in intentionally, just like he chose Da Vinci's "the Madonna of the rocks" quite intentionally for the San Francisco puzzle. He looked at Alcatraz—a.k.a. The Rock—and painted a woman in front of a scene of water and rocks, with the main rock high above with a barred window, i.e. a prison window. He wanted us to think Alcatraz. Maybe the moons were chosen because he wants us to recognize Da Vinci Glow. He wants us to think "glow." Maybe we aren't supposed to be looking for eleven orbs/circles/moons at all. Maybe we are supposed to be looking above us—just as the moons are above the woman and atop the image—for eleven glowing objects. There's that pesky Ghirardelli sign again—eleven glowing letters above us as we physically start the puzzle: By the way Durian, I thought this obsevation of yours was brilliant. I had attributed the 11 "moons" to being the lights that surround Ghirardelli Square, they are everywhere. But I was always trying to figure out why there were 11 and I like your tie-in to the Letters in Ghirardelli. Props to you.

i used the prisoners leaving from the 43, to be the reference that takes you to the Arch which has railway lines running to it, at the pier in fisherman's wharf. with pier 43 being where you would take the ferry to and from Angel Island before (as the two islands are related via the "i have seen the elephants" reference pertaining to the hardships endured by new immigrants, particularly the Chinese who were discriminated against with the Chinese Exclusion Act; which, in turn, relates to the hardships endured by prisoners on the rock, of which the forced labour was an example). im assuming the battleship wasnt there in 81.

The thing that stood out to me at night when I visited years ago was all the white globe lights throughout Ghirardelli. When I mentioned this at one time I was told that those white globe lights are all over SF. And that's okay with me, it just that it is very noticeable. Someone on here did mention Apollo 11 once as being a connection to the city but I like the idea of Ghirardelli and the 11 letters representing the "moons" in Image 1. I'll throw this out there too for fun. If you look at a map or google earth and view SF from the North looking south you will notice why the our lady has two different shaped elbows. Her elbow on the left (her right elbow) is the coastline of the Eastern side of SF along the Embarcadero/Fisherman's Wharf and the elbow on the right (her left elbow) is the coast by the Pacific ocean, Fort Miley area. This tells me that our Seamonster/Dragon/Snake in the center puts us in Maritime National Park for the solve.

JoshCornell wrote:: i used the prisoners leaving from the 43, to be the reference that takes you to the Arch which has railway lines running to it, at the pier in fisherman's wharf. with pier 43 being where you would take the ferry to and from Angel Island before (as the two islands are related via the "i have seen the elephants" reference pertaining to the hardships endured by new immigrants, particularly the Chinese who were discriminated against with the Chinese Exclusion Act; which, in turn, relates to the hardships endured by prisoners on the rock, of which the forced labour was an example). im assuming the battleship wasnt there in 81. how horrible was that, to pay respect to my ancestors who suffers and as a first generation Chinese immigrant, I must find it.... anyone have any good suggestions for a compact, maybe fold-able probe that can poke 4 to 5 ft?

Tell me what you think of this . The 36 in the hair represents 36th ave. and 36th ave. runs into that dell area by Spreckels lake. The fact that the fingers point to lets say 43 and some say 34 (the arms crossover), then the location could be somewhere inbetween 34th ave. and 43rd ave. which makes 36 th ave. even more compelling as a guide to the location.

I don't believe the Apollo 11 has anything to do with this puzzle. It seems like a disconnect tonthe theme or SF in general. The one thing I like most is the hint from the LotJ about the pearl being perfect as a silver moon. I think it helps as an indication for how to work with the verse or how some landmark has something to do with whatever shares the some character that applies to perfect silver. My current thinking is the number for pure silver is 999, which I find in a clever way might work to describe the sculptures of August Rodin which represent a giant door to Hell. (See The Gates of Hell which include the Thinker presently at the Legion of Honor and the Shades which at the time of this hunts introduction located at the northeast end of the parking lot I know I've said this all before. What the Hell, I just like saying it.

erexere wrote:: I don't believe the Apollo 11 has anything to do with this puzzle. It seems like a disconnect tonthe theme or SF in general. The one thing I like most is the hint from the LotJ about the pearl being perfect as a silver moon. I think it helps as an indication for how to work with the verse or how some landmark has something to do with whatever shares the some character that applies to perfect silver. My current thinking is the number for pure silver is 999, which I find in a clever way might work to describe the sculptures of August Rodin which represent a giant door to Hell. (See The Gates of Hell which include the Thinker presently at the Legion of Honor and the Shades which at the time of this hunts introduction located at the northeast end of the parking lot I know I've said this all before. What the Hell, I just like saying it. I could see if the moons in the image had a silver tint to them to lead you in that direction, but IMO they are depicted as Moons,11 (there is no silver in the image) the question is why 11 why not 10 or 12 or 9, ? The puzzle gives you a number to count, 11 if you are trying to connect it to the puzzle you have a couple of options, 11th ave, or as suggested 11 letters in the Ghirardelli sign or IMO Apollo 11 with ties directly to JFK, and confirms that the "path you take " or the face in the rock is JFK, which runs through GGP. I don't think that's a stretch. BP was a Huge Syfy guy, just look at his work it's all about fantasy and the realm of Sci Fi. Maybe this was an influence to some puzzles and added these hints to the puzzle. Take Boston for instance, looks pretty Sci Fi to me (the illustration) IMO. This is just food for thought and it's only a suggestion. I do like the idea of silver moon, but I can't find a direct connection to the image for that idea.

Yes JFK drive

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Sentiments like the one above are often repeated on this forum and elsewhere, but all evidence suggests that the exact opposite was true. Preiss was made aware by several people well before his death that there was renewed interest in his hunt, and if anything, he went out of his way to obstruct their progress. I am not sure the last part is true, I think he was not really interested or too busy elsewhere and did not want to be bothered, but I never ever heard that he did anything to obstruct. simply not helping is in no way obstructing. Am I mistaken, What do you mean by obstruct?

Spiritr wrote:: Yesterday I was missing 2 keys to the puzzle, now I have 3. 1.digging tools 2.camera man What about your permit? and BTW the Permit rules.... Permit will be granted on a first come first serve basis Activity is supervised by SF Rec & Parks Park Ranger Specify activity location in permit application 1 hole, 1-hour time limit per permit Permits will be offered Mon-Fri 9am to 10 am or 12 pm to 1 pm. One permit per day in each time slot Probing poles are allowed up to 3.5 feet Hand-digging only, no power tools permitted Hole may not exceed 2 feet in diameter, 3.5 feet deep Avoid drip-line of trees Tools and tarps must be supplied by permittee Hole must be refilled and all turf must be replaced exactly as found No filming allowed

Durian wrote:: Just for the record, I'm not saying the moons have anything to do with Apollow 11. I'm just saying they're metaphor, like the triangle in the Cleveland puzzle. . The Triangle in the cleveland puzzle is an exact match to the sign for "The Triangle" a shopping center, this is where you turned into the park off Euclid and enter Rockefeller park.. Its the same as going down Michigan and turning at the Bowman to enter Grant Park.

Durian wrote:: Or, it could be metaphor. Have you seen eleven moons at night on any of your excursions to San Francisco? And I'm not talking about somehing you may have seen after a few drinks. So, assuming you haven't seen eleven moons (fair?)... they must represent something other than eleven moons. Metaphor. no I have not seen 11 moons, I never ever thought they represented moons. no I do not think they are a metaphor. nor do I think they represent letters on a sign.

maltedfalcon wrote:: . The Triangle in the cleveland puzzle is an exact match to the sign for "The Triangle" a shopping center, this is where you turned into the park off Euclid and enter Rockefeller park.. Its the same as going down Michigan and turning at the Bowman to enter Grant Park. Was Ford street the street that lead to the park?

Goonie68 wrote:: Was Ford street the street that lead to the park? Yes it was you turned - ford ran a block or so and became east. back in 1981 East made the horses tail turn (now there is a hospital or something sitting on that spot) the whole road was rearranged. But basically once you turned at the triangle you just stayed on the road and it went right to the columns.

and just saying. The Gh does not match the Ghirardelli sign, Yes they are both Serif fonts, but they are not the same serif font, besides the letter thickness, look at the h it is totally different.

The Triangle in the cleveland puzzle is an exact match to the sign for "The Triangle" a shopping center, this is where you turned into the park off Euclid and enter Rockefeller park.. Its the same as going down Michigan and turning at the Bowman to enter Grant Park.[/quote] Was Ford street the street that lead to the park?[/quote] Yes it was you turned - ford ran a block or so and became east. back in 1981 East made the horses tail turn (now there is a hospital or something sitting on that spot) the whole road was rearranged. But basically once you turned at the triangle you just stayed on the road and it went right to the columns.[/quote] I find that very interesting, with Ford, now I know maybe this wasn't' intend but I find the fact the street name Ford and you have a horse(well half of one lol) in the illustration Ford = Mustang = horse(illustration) reinforcing Ford street is the main path to the columns.

Goonie68 wrote:: I find that very interesting, with Ford, now I know maybe this wasn't' intend but I find the fact the street name Ford and you have a horse(well half of one lol) in the illustration Ford = Mustang = horse(illustration) reinforcing Ford street is the main path to the columns. never thought about that - possible...

maltedfalcon wrote:: never thought about that - possible... Here is a possibility for SF, Image: Cable car (iconic image for SF), table, clock, Blue and Gold featured colors, bump on the outline of the dress. Blue and Gold colors = State of California official Colors = California = California street Cable car = California line (cable car) Clock + table = Timetable = schedule= arrival or departure ( in this case a cable car schedule) Bump = Knob or Nob= hill ( the route that the California line runs through) There is more if interested..........

Goonie, I know you like the Rose Garden and so do I, but this is my take. At Mirror Lake (aka Lloyd Lake), hence the mirrored image, we have the Portals of the Past. Huge monument to the past and future of SF. http://www.knightstemplar.org/pgeo/mepgm/18.html Reuben Hedley Lloyd was a master Mason and the temple in SF was erected in his memory in 1958, where our girl is pointing in the Image (5 & 8 blocks on her sleeves). The Masonic temple sits on the former property of Alban Towne on Californian Street which is the doorway that remained standing in the earthquake of 1906 and is the monument in the park. The lines of the verse match up and I believe the casque is behind the Portals on the left side where the natural flat spot is. I'm okay with doubters, and when I get the chance to fly out there, I will dig a nice pit. In the bottom image you'll notice that there is a giant pole and giant step. The pole was placed there after the earthquake of 1957 destroyed the rear column. It sat on the huge top step. The column has since seen replaced but in 1982 that is what it looked like. I think being a simple puzzle (based on the value of the pearl) this is our spot.

Gman, Yes I agree with the portals being a potential spot, the possibilities I posted prior was how we get to GGP from the Iconic image of the cable car.

Durian wrote:: I would think if we are to see "glowing objects, then the background of the "moons" or objects would be dark resembling night to get the glow effect, the illustration does not have this to connect "glowing night" with a lighter background, I am not saying your wrong just seems a little off if we are supposed to make this connection.

I just wish someone would stick a shovel in the ground back there.

Durian wrote:: So check this out. I can't grab the image, so you'll have to follow the link. We have, on-board the Eureka: Dragons A clock with Roman numerals A clock hand with a trefoil (three circles in an ornamental pattern) like the symbol in the dress. Remember that the woman's hands are pointing like clock hands, with Roman numerals above and below her hands. https://www.flickr.com/photos/randomstr ... VWy-3JVAKe If the Eureka was the dig spot I would be on board!

Am I the only one that sees the "animal" on her bath robe to actually be a snake swallowing a sea serpent?

Dragons A clock with Roman numerals A clock hand with a trefoil (three circles in an ornamental pattern) like the symbol in the dress. Remember that the woman's hands are pointing like clock hands, with Roman numerals above and below her hands. https://www.flickr.com/photos/randomstr ... VWy-3JVAKe [/quote] If the Eureka was the dig spot I would be on board![/quote] The dig spot is "in the direction of the object of Twain's attention," not on it! Assuming the "object" is the Eureka, then we now have four things from the image connected to the Eureka: dragons, clock hands, a clock with Roman numerals, and a trefoil (three circle pattern).[/quote] Goonie68, note too that the woman can be viewed as a "dragon clock." If the woman is a clock and her hands are the "arms in the clock" then she would be pointing to 9:20? What are we looking at? She's got a dress with a dragon on it, the dragon is surrounded by Roman numerals, and her arms are crossed and pointing, like a clock points.[/quote]

Goonie68 wrote:: Dragons A clock with Roman numerals A clock hand with a trefoil (three circles in an ornamental pattern) like the symbol in the dress. Remember that the woman's hands are pointing like clock hands, with Roman numerals above and below her hands. https://www.flickr.com/photos/randomstr ... VWy-3JVAKe If the Eureka was the dig spot I would be on board![/quote] The dig spot is "in the direction of the object of Twain's attention," not on it! Assuming the "object" is the Eureka, then we now have four things from the image connected to the Eureka: dragons, clock hands, a clock with Roman numerals, and a trefoil (three circle pattern).[/quote] Goonie68, note too that the woman can be viewed as a "dragon clock." If the woman is a clock and her hands are the "arms in the clock" then she would be pointing to 9:20? What are we looking at? She's got a dress with a dragon on it, the dragon is surrounded by Roman numerals, and her arms are crossed and pointing, like a clock points.[/quote][/quote] If the woman is the clock then her hands are pointing to 9:20?

as in left hand pointing to the 9 and right hand pointing down towards where the 4 would be, is what he's getting at lol.

Durian, thanks for this link, good stuff. https://www.loc.gov/resource/hhh.ca4182.sheet/?sp=12 This is where the idea for the sea serpent came from for this Image.

Ghirardelli connections to the Image. Backwards G and h 11 white balls in the sky - Globe lights throughout the Square Blue and Gold - Ghirardelli's Company colors Upside IV - 6 on the Ghirardelli clock tower The eagle head in the snake just below the upside down IV - Eagle is in the Ghirardelli logo Anybody want to add anything to this?

I've just always seen a snake's mouth coming up from under the serpent's wing. That looks like an eye just below the wing with the snakes mouth wrapped around the body of the serpent. It doesn't change anything in the puzzle too much. I just felt as thought the speaker tower was the Sea Serpent and the Snake was the Cable Cars/tracks running thru the city streets. I've never seen anyone discuss the Snake and the Serpent or the large "6" and letter "S" at the top of what would be the Snake's body. I see this as meaning 6 Steps, as in 6 blocks....just like in Boston where it say 5 steps in the verse. If you start at Stone Wall's door, Pier 43, and go 6 blocks to the West (Twain's attn) you end up in National Maritime Park. I've previously talked about the Geo. H at the bottom of the snake meaning George Hyde. I just thought I'd throw the 6 and S into the mix as well. Any body come up with other ideas on those?

Durian wrote:: For real? You expect an artist to exactly represent that font in such a small space on a painting? Looks like he did a pretty good job to me. small space? ok lets do the math if the frame is made up of 3" wood then the bottom of the picture to the "fold" line is 12 units tall or 36 inches- that makes sense, he painted it on a standard 36 inch piece of art board then had to extend it up to finish the curve. that explains the fold line, its not a fold line its the seam between the artboards... so that means each letter is just over an inch tall and an inch wide.... possbile a smidge bigger. So yes I expect an artist of the caliber of ggp who probably used an opaque projector to add items to the drawings before painting them on would have got the letters exactly right. for instance look at the yin yan symbol it is exactly right... examine the other text ie the 38 in the hair, incredibly fine work there. so again no the Gh does not match the Gh in the sign.

MrBackstop wrote:: Ghirardelli connections to the Image. Backwards G and h 11 white balls in the sky - Globe lights throughout the Square Blue and Gold - Ghirardelli's Company colors Upside IV - 6 on the Ghirardelli clock tower The eagle head in the snake just below the upside down IV - Eagle is in the Ghirardelli logo Anybody want to add anything to this? only that you have the company colors wrong, well not wrong for today but in 1981 this was ghiradelli's product and colors. https://atmedia.imgix.net/b3eed2df2cda0d9efe7952766c1bbf8c3a98e688?auto=format&q=45&w=478.0&h=402.0&fit=max&cs=strip

MrSeabass wrote:: If that's the case, then the images of Ohio, Illinois, Charleston, and Roanoke Island do not match the map. yes correct, we know all the maps are not accurate representations, but his buildings are spot on, and his faces.figures, but mostly the site confirmer images are rock solid. almost traced. and in this case since we are trying to use the Gh as a site confirmer not a map we would expect it to be nailed.

Yeah, that's true on the colors. At that time frame it looks like they went with the big 3 and didn't get rid of the red until the early 80s.

Durian wrote:: So what do you think of the fact the rose—when flipped—looks a lot like a map of Angel Island? And what do you make of this clock with two dragons on-board the Eureka: https://www.flickr.com/photos/feetwet/5 ... h8C-9Jbuyu Seems interesting that we're looking at an image of a woman: -Whose dress is dominated by a dragon -Which is surrounded by Roman numerals -That we know are from a clock because the V and VI are upside down like a clock -And the woman's two hands are crossed and pointing, like a clock? And the fact this boat is of the style which definitely was an object of Twain's attention, seeing as how if he didn't pay attention to his work the boat might literally crash. BTW, it was an act of paying close attention that gave Twain his pen name. Seems like a play on words... Just a lot of coincidence? 1 I think that you can see angel island from the casque site. 2 Those aren't dragons those are phoenix's which are a common theme on old clocks /the die-rebirth thing 3 puzzle is china themed a dragon on the dress makes sense. 4 yes but which clock. 5 by that definition any two hands on any image are a clock. they are crossed to represent crossover drive, an identifiable point in golden gate park ,they point to indicate some special information. (not a clock time) the image has a clock it points to just before 6 6 a ferry boat is not a river boat. as a mark twain match , well... there are many better, shoot, angel island is a better match than the eureka. as is fort point. both of which show up in the image, the eureka does not. 7 you missed the best part of the clock on the eureka, the finial on the top matches the finial on the clock on the table.... but then it can't be a cable car bell.... Do I think it's a lot of coincidence? why yes, I have seen no less that 8 spots in the city with great matches to the verse and images, admittedly some not as good as maritime park, but most a lot better.

Durian wrote:: The colors are probably from the Blue and Gold Fleet. I seriously doubt it , in the 80s the Blue and Gold Fleet was three small boats that offered sight seeing from way down at the other end of fisherman's wharf. and really was not a notable company until much later. they were just one of many sight seeing companies in business around there at the time, nothing special and not even nearby.

In the post “Palencar Original Artwork” page 2, Wicket posted a link to very clear scans of the 12 images and the number in the hair looks like a 36 not 38

Diceycat wrote:: In the post “Palencar Original Artwork” page 2, Wicket posted a link to very clear scans of the 12 images and the number in the hair looks like a 36 not 38 yes, well I understand they were from an original book, and I didn't want to say anything, but those scans are awful first just look at a text base paged zoomed in to 400% I would expect absolutely crisp lines, but the lines and letters are full of anti - alias artifacts and his scanning introduced moire patterns into the image. so here- its a 38...

Durian, I'm starting to think you're kind of a douche.

Durian wrote:: Malted, you amaze me! Birds don't have teeth. And two hands on any image are not a clock. This is nonsensical. no you are absolutely right I got mixed up with the senior center those are the phoenixes. I agree with you on two hands not making a clock, therefore the woman in image one does not represent a clock and her hands do not act as a clock. I'm glad we got that straightened out.

Durian wrote:: Challenging the status quo with facts doesn't make me a douche. Absolutely not! at one time I would have agreed whole-heartedly with all these clues. The real trouble with them is not how good they are, it is simply they don't lead to a casque. but perhaps all the people who checked these out before were totally wrong. If you can put a new spin on them and find the casque, Great! you just asked for opinions on them so I gave you mine. I hope you absolutely prove me wrong. I want somebody to find this thing.

Durian wrote:: I got it. That's why I'm asking. Here's another. What do you think of this: Looks like the artist might have had some fun by adding a forehead and lower lip. I think it's a bit forced, since whether its Lincoln or JFK all he had to do was pull a coin out of his pocket for a matching source. and site confirmers seem to be more exact copies, than say maps.

Durian wrote:: It's the base of the railing that surrounds the Hyde turnaround. Looks to me like the artist may have used a photo like this and added the forehead and lower lip, similar to how he gave the statue in the Chicago puzzle wings. Why? Don't know, maybe just for a laugh... Maybe to mean something... But the straight lines are a basic match, and the curve of the "hair" and "chin" are a basic match as well. Interesting. Well no the fairy in chicago is a perfect match with wings added. These are words to stay away from, its a basic match- that actually means it does't match but in my mind I add these execptions and it works... it is an example of seeing something that isnt there. You keep trying to re-inforce your solve, when really all you need to do is identify a spot. if your spot is already identified, then go dig it up or get someone to do it. I know at first you were over by the stairway, not it seems to be in the middle of the park. If your solve is valid it resolves to a spot, whats the spot? (I am not asking you to tell me.) go get it dug. Because as "Interesting" as all these clues are, they don't point to a specific identifiable casque location. At the end of 10x13 or In a rectangular plot Beneath the tenth stone From right to left What is your giant pole and where is your giant step in the direction of an object of twains attention. This all has to come to a specific spot. as soon as you dig it you will know if your theory is correct.

what i said was go dig

Would this be consider a stone wall's door?

Unknown: What do you mean by obstruct? "Obstruct" may be too strong a word Matt, but whether you agree with me or not ultimately depends on your interpretation of statement Preiss made such as: -10 by 13 refers to feet -there are no clues contained in the rest of the book -Andy and Brian got all the clues -it would not be a waste of time to dig there IMO, all those statements are actually detrimental to solving the puzzle. I agree that he was under no obligation to "help", but if that was really his intention, it would have been much simpler to just not respond to the phone calls and emails that he received, and to be much more reserved when he spoke with Andy and Brian.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: "Obstruct" may be too strong a word Matt, but whether you agree with me or not ultimately depends on your interpretation of statement Preiss made such as: -10 by 13 refers to feet -there are no clues contained in the rest of the book -Andy and Brian got all the clues -it would not be a waste of time to dig there IMO, all those statements are actually detrimental to solving the puzzle. I agree that he was under no obligation to "help", but if that was really his intention, it would have been much simpler to just not respond to the phone calls and emails that he received, and to be much more reserved when he spoke with Andy and Brian. actually looking at it that way you are correct

Unknown: you are correct What I am is consistent. It remains to be seen whether I am correct.

Goonie68 wrote:: Would this be consider a stone wall's door? dont think so. but thats me.

Here goes my new and improved solve for image 1 At stone walls door the air smells sweet = the stone wall entrance to the stone walled fragrance garden at GGP Not far away high posts are three = Sutro tower, you can see it from the entrance to the fragrance garden. Education and justice for all to see = well you have a library in the botanical garden as well as a museum near by and most of the main streets are named after politicians like JFK. Sounds from the sky near ace is high = between the music concourse and 11th ave. Is the general location of the casque Running north but first across = straight north of the entrance to the fragrance garden lines you up with 11th ave. The first across is having to go across since you can’t go over the buildings so you need to bypass them In jewels direction = north Is an object of Twain’s attention = on the north side of JFK dr. You see the fenced in giant sequoia Giant pole = the sequoia Giant step = just that about 4 feet So the casque is probably on the north side of the tree .This could be the clincher in the image 1 and would have to be investigated by someone who lives close by . Take a close look at the fence that surrounds the tree . There is a top row of fence rails and a single row below that so what you have is two rows of squares essentially just like the two rows on each side in the image that the fingers point to . The thing is that the fingers are not pointing to the squares they are pointing to the areas in between the squares which represents the posts! .So you would have to count the posts from the east side and from the west side ( can’t be done on google earth), to determine the location more accurately. So you have to count them the right way . 5 posts going south from the north end on the west side and 4 posts going south from the north east corner and see where they intersect with the giant step Possibly when you get a view of the north side of the tree you might see a dark shape resembling to one made between the wrists. It would be nice if some one could confirm this. Maybe post a photo or two

Goonie68 wrote:: Would this be consider a stone wall's door? No, rule number 1, no grave yard, no cemetery , so, NO.

Spiritr wrote:: No, rule number 1, no grave yard, no cemetery , so, NO. I didn't say this was the dig spot or the location, just asking opinion that's all, I am well aware of NO CEMETERY to dig in.

Spiritr wrote:: No, rule number 1, no grave yard, no cemetery , so, NO. Welcome to the forum, newbie.

Information Sunday: I found this very interesting and a possible connection to the Iconic image of SF and the start of the puzzle (not the start of the verse) Connection to: California Street /Cable car line: Cable Car Iconic Image in the illustration Underneath the Embarcadero lies a grave yard of ships. During the Gold rush of California, there was two types of migrations to California, one by land and one by sea. Ships crowed the ports of San Fransisco up to 40 + ships a day. These ships brought people from all over the world to begin a new life in the Gold Rush days of California. The ships that docked at the piers would unload supplies and people, but never saw their return , due to their new future in the Gold rush. These ships were left and abandon, over time the Embarcadero would grow and the ships would be burred under the foundation of the new landscape. Most of the streets today (in the Embarcadero) were piers before they became roads. Docked at the California pier was a ship named The Henry Lee, named after Col Richard Henry Lee. His nickname was "the immigrant" The Henry Lee was found at California and Davis street. Chinese immigrants made it to California in 1850's to 1880's, before they where brought to Angle Island. The ports of San Fransisco would of seen the first wave of Chinese immigrants during the Gold Rush ear.

Information Sunday: I found this very interesting and a possible connection to the Iconic image of SF and the start of the puzzle (not the start of the verse) Connection to: California Street /Cable car line: Cable Car Iconic Image in the illustration Underneath the Embarcadero lies a grave yard of ships. During the Gold rush of California, there was two types of migrations to California, one by land and one by sea. Ships crowed the ports of San Fransisco up to 40 + ships a day. These ships brought people from all over the world to begin a new life in the Gold Rush days of California. The ships that docked at the piers would unload supplies and people, but never saw their return , due to their new future in the Gold rush. These ships were left and abandon, over time the Embarcadero would grow and the ships would be burred under the foundation of the new landscape. Most of the streets today (in the Embarcadero) were piers before they became roads. Docked at the California pier was a ship named The Henry Lee, named after Col Richard Henry Lee. His nickname was "the immigrant" The Henry Lee was found at California and Davis street. Chinese immigrants made it to California in 1850's to 1880's, before they where brought to Angle Island. The ports of San Fransisco would of seen the first wave of Chinese immigrants during the Gold Rush ear.

This an article from a person that excavated a site near California street In the early 70’s, on Fremont and Market Streets, we found a sunken ship with over 320 Chinese skeletons in it. It happened as we suddenly broke through a sunken hull with our heavy digging equipment. The ship was used as a final resting place for Chinese laborers after the ship had been abandon. The other operator, a despicable individual whose name I’ll keep anonymous in case he’s still alive, work along side me, and he was stealing their gold teeth. Eventually an antiquities person caught him and made the idiot give up the gold crowns. Finally, a Chinese Benevolent Society in San Francisco’s Chinatown collected all the remains we could find and reburied them in an all Chinese graveyard in Coma, CA. Coma is a town just south of SF. Its sole purpose is dedicated lands so that all denominations have graveyards. In fact, no one alive lives there including many of my own deceased relatives. Spooky–huh? Like · Reply · 3 mi Road Wolf / June 21, 2016

http://www.upout.com/blog/san-francisco-3/map-shows-ships-buried-underneath-san-francisco-2 So many boats...so little time...

not everything is flipped on the vertical fyi

beyond imagination

Durian, more solid work on your part. I like what I'm seeing. I really like the stair-stepped shape looking like the side of the Maritime Museum. The other areas also look promising and definitely put us in National Maritime Park. I like your 6 points. Except for #1 I see the Giant Pole as being the Smokestack at SF Pumping Station #2 at the front of the Aquatic Pier. That smokestack is gone now. But if you line up where the smokestack was with the East Speaker tower it goes right over the top of the East bleachers. Giant Pole - SF Pumping Station Smokestack Giant Step - East Bleachers To the place - National Maritime Park The casque is kept - Near the East Speaker Tower I believe Priess and JJP used several of the photos from all over the cities to create this artwork and combined many elements that could easily throw searchers off. I see Image 1 as a combination of GGP, Lombard St, Coit Tower, Ghirardelli, Alcatraz, Muir Woods, Fisherman's Wharf, Angel Island, Hyde Street Pier, and more. I like the images of the clock and dragon on the Eureka. They could easily be the inspiration for the Sea Monster/dragon/snake in Image 1, and so could the dragon from the Senior Center. JJP had lots of images to work from and obviously came up with a beautiful piece. I enjoy all the ideas you are throwing out there with the Ghirardelli clock and possible locations by the bleacher wall. Those spots could definitely be viable. I am of the belief that the dig spot is to the South of the East Tower. I wonder if anyone has probed over there?

Durian, more solid work on your part. I like what I'm seeing. I really like the stair-stepped shape looking like the side of the Maritime Museum. The other areas also look promising and definitely put us in National Maritime Park. I like your 6 points. Except for #1 I see the Giant Pole as being the Smokestack at SF Pumping Station #2 at the front of the Aquatic Pier . That smokestack is gone now. But if you line up where the smokestack was with the East Speaker tower it goes right over the top of the East bleachers. Giant Pole - SF Pumping Station Smokestack Giant Step - East Bleachers To the place - National Maritime Park The casque is kept - Near the East Speaker Tower I believe Priess and JJP used several of the photos from all over the cities to create this artwork and combined many elements that could easily throw searchers off. I see Image 1 as a combination of GGP, Lombard St, Coit Tower, Ghirardelli, Alcatraz, Muir Woods, Fisherman's Wharf, Angel Island, Hyde Street Pier , and more. I like the images of the clock and dragon on the Eureka. They could easily be the inspiration for the Sea Monster/dragon/snake in Image 1, and so could the dragon from the Senior Center. JJP had lots of images to work from and obviously came up with a beautiful piece. I enjoy all the ideas you are throwing out there with the Ghirardelli clock and possible locations by the bleacher wall. Those spots could definitely be viable. I am of the belief that the dig spot is to the South of the East Tower. I wonder if anyone has probed over there?

Durian, more solid work on your part. I like what I'm seeing. I really like the stair-stepped shape looking like the side of the Maritime Museum. The other areas also look promising and definitely put us in National Maritime Park. I like your 6 points. Except for #1 I see the Giant Pole as being the Smokestack at SF Pumping Station #2 at the front of the Aquatic Pier. That smokestack is gone now. But if you line up where the smokestack was with the East Speaker tower it goes right over the top of the East bleachers. Giant Pole - SF Pumping Station Smokestack Giant Step - East Bleachers To the place - National Maritime Park The casque is kept - Near the East Speaker Tower I believe Priess and JJP used several of the photos from all over the cities to create this artwork and combined many elements that could easily throw searchers off. I see Image 1 as a combination of GGP, Lombard St, Coit Tower, Ghirardelli, Alcatraz, Muir Woods, Fisherman's Wharf, Angel Island, Hyde Street Pier, and more. I like the images of the clock and dragon on the Eureka. They could easily be the inspiration for the Sea Monster/dragon/snake in Image 1, and so could the dragon from the Senior Center. JJP had lots of images to work from and obviously came up with a beautiful piece. I enjoy all the ideas you are throwing out there with the Ghirardelli clock and possible locations by the bleacher wall. Those spots could definitely be viable. I am of the belief that the dig spot is to the South of the East Tower. I wonder if anyone has probed over there?

Magesmiley wrote:: My apologies for taking so long, I was kind of ill the last few days or so. My adventure digging at the beach by the Aquatic Park was... interesting and one my daughters will surely remember for years. The first day I was in San Francisco I went up to front desk of the museum that had jurisdiction over the park and asked if it would be ok to go out to the beach and dig a hole, describing that I wanted to dig down about 3-3.5 feet right in front of the steps. The guy at the desk and another lady kind of pondered it and then indicated that it would be ok since its a public beach. I jotted his name down and thanked him. The next day my family and I headed down to the beach and I proceeded to dig, drawing the occasional interest of passers by. All went well for awhile, with me getting to the point that I had a hole about 3.5 feet deep (at which point I was hitting hard rocks)  and around 3.5 feet around. At this point a park policeman stopped me and asked what was going on. I explained and indicated that I had inquired yesterday at the museum's front desk and was told that it would be ok. He indictated that he hadn't been informed and had to do some checking. To make a long story short, he then proceeded to do a bunch of checking and it turns out that the guy who told me it was ok didn't have the authority to give me permission to dig. Fortunately I had jotted the guys name down, which helped. So, because I did attempt to go through the proper channels and thought I had an ok from someone in the organization, he didn't give me a ticket, but it ended my digging. I had to fill everything in and give up. The officer was quite nice towards the end and even gave me the name of the proper channel to go through, however as my trip was drawing to a close, I didn't have time to follow up on it. Several onlookers were quite disappointed that my digging was ended too. One guy even started chanting 'let him dig' and a lady was arguing with the police officer (which wasn't helping things). So as to my rationale: I was digging, incidentally, down at the base of a large step by one of the lamp poles by the beach at the Aquatic Park. From the picture: Gh isn't a general SF landmark, its directly visible from the spot I was digging. FURTHERMORE, there is a tree that blocks out all of the letters, except the Gh (I took a picture, but am at work, so I'll have to post it up later). The moons are the balls for the light poles down by the water. The table leg is the ironwork below the balls on the light poles (this is kind of debatable, but look at the outline, I think its pretty close). One of the symbols around the border of the tabard is a profile of one of the speaker towers in the park. The tower at the top is Coit Tower, a well-known SF landmark. There might be more I'm forgetting, but I'm going off of memory here. From verse 7: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Not far away - Ghiradelli's Chocolates was originally located at Jackson Square. And if you've ever been in the place it does indeed smell quite sweet. High posts are three - There is a three-masted sailing ship in the harbor of the Aquatic Park Education and Justice For all to see - The Maritime Museum directly adjacent to the Aquatic Park and Alcatraz out in the harbor Sounds from the sky - There are two elevated speaker towers for people to address crowds from atop of. Near ace is high Running north, but first across - The Golden Gate Bridge, which is also visible from parts of the Park In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention - In addition to the sailing ship, there is a paddlewheel steamship out in the harbor as well. Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept - I worked under the assumption that the pole was one of the light poles down near the beach as they seemed to match the table leg pretty well. In addition a few of them were adjacent to some large steps. So, I worked from the lightpole by the steps down to the beach where one could see Alcatraz, the Golden Gate, the Maritime Museum, one of the Speaker Towers, the three-masted sailing ship, the paddle wheeler, and the Ghiradelli's sign (which as I mentioned had a tree which obstructed all but the Gh). One of the poles met all of the criteria best. And thus ends my expedition. Here's hoping that someone else can pick things up where I left off and get (the proper) permission to dig some more. I'll try to remember to post up some pictures when I'm home. And thanks to Jimerson for doing some preliminary looking for me. Previous work -2007

I've seen photos of the Smokestack still standing in '75 and '77. If it was not there when Priess was he could have used some photos from his time before or It could simply be I need a different Giant Pole. As for the Pine Cone post tops, I suppose that could be what is in the image. That's an interesting find. I'll share another interesting find with you. I have not seen anyone bring this up. Take a look at what everyone refers to as the "strawberry" in the image. That's not a strawberry, it shows the towers. Look just below her hands at what would be the top of the strawberry....blow it up nice and big. There are two points coming from left to right and two points going right to left. Each of these is the opening or "mouth" of the speaker towers. And as you look at the shape on the right you will notice what looks like a bird head (triangular shape) with a wide open mouth making noise. This is the East Speaker Tower in NMP.

Durian wrote:: Hi MrBackstop. Found an NPS doc saying the smokestack was removed in '76. Doesn't mean Preiss might not have referenced it anyway (or that the doc is wrong or off by a bit), but I'm still thinking the pole is the East speaker. Can't cut and paste from the doc for some reason, but it's on page 290 (I'm glad I'm getting some use from my tax dollars with all this searching, lol.): https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_ ... ma/clr.pdf There is a lot of great info in that document as well as some cool historic photos. So it could be that one of the towers is considered the Giant Pole or perhaps some other structure, I'll check it out some more but it doesn't change all the other clues that point to NMP.

I really like a lot of the ideas or possible matching being done on this image lately, but it's been difficult to follow what coinstraint or reason any object reference fits a function of the puzzle.

Thanks for the link. I took some time reading it. I like how you begin with a good set of cautious ground rules and then get into the thick of it. Lots of guesses and it much seems convincing to me. There are countless pitfalls in how We approach the verse or image. Good luck.

I wouldn't use "Bay Area in general" as a theme at all. As a resident of the South Bay region, I am closer to Mt.Hamilton and the Lick Observatory than I am to SFO, let alone the Golden Gate. Landmarks beyond a 25-mile radius from San Francisco would be misleading; beyond 50 miles, useless; beyond 75 miles, well, bad puzzle design.

very well done, to show my appreciation of the hard work you've done, hope you like it~ " At stone wall's door The air smells sweet "

pay attention and look closely to these pics my friend

catherwood wrote:: I wouldn't use "Bay Area in general" as a theme at all. As a resident of the South Bay region, I am closer to Mt.Hamilton and the Lick Observatory than I am to SFO, let alone the Golden Gate. Landmarks beyond a 25-mile radius from San Francisco would be misleading; beyond 50 miles, useless; beyond 75 miles, well, bad puzzle design. i have one in mexico lol.

I just visited San Francisco We went to Ghiradelli Square I didn't smell anything

Maybe air smells sweet is suppose to have us think of, mouth and nose, how they work together to determine taste. In terms of geography or some structure, where in San Francisco do we have an opening Or passage (mouth) and a projection above or in front of it (nose)? Wherever is a place where the moth and nose are copperating to serve a single main function. Probably too generic of a thought, but maybe it helps steer us to the reason for the choice of words.

Doghousereiley wrote:: I just visited San Francisco We went to Ghiradelli Square I didn't smell anything Try go at 6am every morning, on its back which is the front of Marit Museum, my freshman and sophomore years was in Galileo, 18 years ago i smoke there every morning before class consider that corner is the only “blind spot” , and those fresh coco smell really is something you’ll remember for life. That and some Cali grand daddy purp to start a refreshing morning....Ironically It’s something I can do when I was a kid where now i just can’t do that when I’m at work

Doghousereiley wrote:: I just visited San Francisco We went to Ghiradelli Square I didn't smell anything Try go at 6am every morning, on its back which is the front of Marit Museum, my freshman and sophomore years was in Galileo , 18 years ago i smoke there every morning before class consider that corner is the only “blind spot” , and those fresh coco smell really is something you’ll remember for life. That and some Cali grand daddy purp to start a refreshing morning....Ironically It’s something I can do when I was a kid where now i just can’t do that when I’m at work

facing the ocean, which one is the one you posted? left? or right? which side you predict the box is hidden at?

did a little search and it's heart breaking...... 1989.....

When you say stand in the right position, can you explain what gets you to that place?

erexere wrote:: When you say stand in the right position, can you explain what gets you to that place? to find an angle that match the image

Looking for a match may be a flawed approach without first having cause to be in that place. I 've always liked how Fountain of Youth searchers first cite the conquistador as cause to find "The first chapter" written n a sign at the entrance. So, what gets you to that spot in the first place that you might find something interesting like a match tonthe painting?

very unlikely someone will answer you this question other than me for me, image 1 This! is where I will start

Looks like you have sought the columns.

Have you ever considered writing sci-fi novels or scripts? I honestly think you’re very good and very talented in that area How all the clues will show up spiritually as one approach the spot, simply elegant yet brave! I like it! And using the :% as compass and clock is crazy good, that’s some next level shit right there!

Durian, Great work looking for identifiers. I think a lot of the items aren't half bad. There's a few that leave me scratching my head. Calling Ace is high a single point by definition seems hasty. Overall, not too shabby. I like the blog except it gets a little too sure of itself. I think we still need to work with the ideas. Good luck!

Okay, but I don't question the definition, I question the hastiness of attributing the term to any other thing that fits the definition. Shouldn't it be better to get to the answer for why the puzzle calls for such a line? I 'm totally unsure of how to proceed here, so take this with a grain of salt. Could it be that we have to think "poker", suggesting that we are looking for something to do with card playing or perhaps an actual fire place, as in a hot poker? I 've had many other ideas in the past, but it's always a weak kind of fit. Could it be suggesting we look for a "King road", since the K card is near or closest to the Ace High in value? Or numerically, it's conceivable that Ace is high represents the number 14, so if this should be a street reference or golf course hole reference, then the nearest other thing would be the number 13 or 15. I kinda like the King idea.

you got pm'd

Sounds from the sky - Speaker Towers in National Maritime Park Near ace is high - Polk Street. Polk street ends North at the Maritime Museum right between the Speaker Towers. James Polk was the 11th President of the United States, there's your ace is high.

I use to like that kind of thinking, Ace = 11 (in blackjack) Or 14 (in poker). To then apply that numeric to anything is only as good as a random act unless there's already some strong lean towards Presidents for this puzzle. Is that the case here?

I was wondering if in any of the other paintings a dice was found? I vaguely remember reading that dice had been found among the images in other paintings. Also has anyone noticed what looks like the letter "M" in her curl slightly below the # 38 in her hair. Durian... to let you know that the "Guard Tower" you have as one of your points of three circled on Alcatraz, is actually the lighthouse. I had the privilege of being able to see this almost every day for 8 years as I worked for Alcatraz. The sunsets were to breathtaking looking out towards the Golden Gate Bridge. One of the things I miss about living in the city...

erexere wrote:: I use to like that kind of thinking, Ace = 11 (in blackjack) Or 14 (in poker). To then apply that numeric to anything is only as good as a random act unless there's already some strong lean towards Presidents for this puzzle. Is that the case here? The "J" rose on the table and the vine to the right with the shape of a "3" is for Jefferson St. which is on the North side of NMP. Thomas Jefferson was the 3rd President of the United States. Priess found a good way to work them into this Puzzle.

Tamaari, I like your thinking with the Lighthouse on Alcatraz. That is definitely a giant pole but my first thought was the old smokestack that used to be standing at the SF Pumping station #2. Turns out that was removed in 1976 so depending on when Priess did this puzzle that stack may have been gone. While I was looking for an answer to Giant Pole Giant Step the only answers I came up with for the pole were Smokestack, Lighthouse or one of the Speaker Towers themselves.

Regarding the letter "M" in her hair curl, I always took that to mean Maritime,...but then again, it could be a "W" depending on your interpretation.

Durian, well done on all this good visual reference to your solve. As for my "ace is high"....that is what I interpret James Polk to be. An ace that is low is a "one" in cards, an ace that is high is 11 in cards. I know you know that but the entire segment is about Polk. Near just means that Polks street is near the Speaker Towers at the NMP.

Durian, great job on the map outline. A problem which maltedfalcon brought to my attention a long time ago was that after you use up most of the lines getting from one place to another, you now have too little instruction remaining to isolate the dig spot. I suspect more is going on with these verses than just a long walkabout.

Kind of stumped here. How does Twain’s attention ( the steamboat) fit in with the direction of the jewel being behind the bleachers ? When it says “in the jewels direction is an object of Twain’s attention “.

Let me refine your theory if I may . Just a different way I might read it if this was the spot. 1.at stone walls door the air smells sweet = I’m thinking he is standing on beach street at the main entrance of Ghirardelli square 2.not far away high posts are 3 education and justice for all to see = so he is still standing there in the same spot and looking at Alcatraz and the other island 3.Sounds from the sky near ace is high = He’s still standing there and looking about and listening . Sounds could be the street cars or the speaker towers and again ace is high pick a street could be Polk for # 11 Ace is high. 4.running north but 1st across in jewels direction is an object of Twain’s attention = so you go north the jog to the right a bit you get to the speaker tower or when he says go across it could just be cross the street. Now if you stood at my stone walls door location and drew a line to the steamship location then the speaker tower would fall close to that line in the jewels direction. 5.giant pole giant step= speaker tower( maybe between the tower and the sequoia) Just a thought on interpretation. Still gets you to NMP but a different dig location So how do the crossed hands fit in to the location and the berry/ pinecone ?

Durian wrote:: Got it, re: Polk. Clever! I'm curious about the rest of your solve? Are you and I both still ending up at the wall near the blue tiles and the east bleachers? I get to the speaker tower near the end (giant pole), but you get there earlier (sounds from the sky). Where are you ending up, and how? Also, I may be taking a trip to SF in a month. If not, my wife will be... I'll get a bunch of good photos around the speakers/bleachers, Maritime Museum, etc. Do you have any requests? I'm going to post my solve here shortly. Still checking a couple things out and yes, I am definitely in the middle of National Maritime Park. My solve just took a different route starting at Pier 43.

can anyone with the actual book confirm that right between C and D, from the left, there's a horizontal line going across?

I have a copy. There is a line, but it looks to be a printing issue and not part of the painted image.

intrigued wrote:: I have a copy. There is a line, but it looks to be a printing issue and not part of the painted image. And your copy was original right? not the kindle or whatever it's called version. There IS a line? Right?

and also is this a right or left page? what image is behind this page, and what's next to this page? Thanks for really looking into it btw, much appreciated.

The original image has a "fold" line there (you can see it on the TV show) although I don't think it is a fold line. I think the original painting was done on a 24x36 (canvas) posterboard. and the area above the line is actually a second added piece of posterboard used to extend the "canvas"

maltedfalcon wrote:: The original image has a "fold" line there (you can see it on the TV show) although I don't think it is a fold line. I think the original painting was done on a 24x36 (canvas) posterboard. and the area above the line is actually a second added piece of posterboard used to extend the "canvas" what TV show? EU S4, Ep4? No, impossible, only reason to add a poster board on top of a canvas was to create this arch top shape frame. If what you suggest is the case, how come we don't see a line in image12 ? so I saw this pdf with photos of the original 1892 hardcover version form the library. umm.........interesting

Spiritr wrote:: what TV show? EU S4, Ep4? No, impossible, only reason to add a poster board on top of a canvas was to create this arch top shape frame. If what you suggest is the case, how come we don't see a line in image12 ? so I saw this pdf with photos of the original 1892 hardcover version form the library. umm.........interesting I suspect he learned from the first painting that he would need to paint smaller or use a bigger canvas... also we know that the paintings were not all the same size. if it wasn't added then it was simply folded. (added seems more likely to me...) FYI there was no original hardcover edition. it was a trade paperback only

Thanks you, great info.

I want an 1892 hardcover version....

if you really have one at that time..... will you tear out a page if instructed to?

maltedfalcon wrote:: FYI there was no original hardcover edition. it was a trade paperback only My 1982 copy is definitely a hardcover... but now you've got me thinking that it might be a re-bound trade paperback.

JamesV wrote:: My 1982 copy is definitely a hardcover... but now you've got me thinking that it might be a re-bound trade paperback. check the isbn - 0-553-01408-0 was a trade paper - if yours is that it started life as a paperback but actually what I think it is is before it was re-published in 2015, somebody had scanned it and was selling Print on Demand versions. so I think your hardback is a bootleg POD copy of the original..

MF, awesome information-- thank you! Same ISBN for sure, but it's still hard to believe this one might be a pirated copy b/c the image quality is so high. I'll have a closer look at the cover, binding, etc. this week to see if I can tell for sure. Although, if I really have been working this puzzle from a vintage "hot" copy, that's actually pretty cool!

it's the other way around, that's actually pretty sad.

So last week I asked about our Russian Lady and the question I have now is for those who have solves in GGP. If Preiss had stated he did not bury a casque in Central Park for the New York Image, why do you think he would have buried a casque in San Francisco's "Central Park"?

MrBackstop wrote:: So last week I asked about our Russian Lady and the question I have now is for those who have solves in GGP. If Preiss had stated he did not bury a casque i Central Park for the New York Image, why do you think he would have buried a casque in San Francisco's "Central Park"? Well the most obvious reason is there is no image of central park in the NY image, the 2nd being he did not say it was not in golden Gate Park. The 3rd being all the obvious references in the image to parts of golden gate park.

durian the question was why ggpark when not central park not is the casque in goldengate park the answer to that is of course it’s not i did see where you saw the sillohuettes and images you mentioned but i dont see them perhaps others do no worries just go dig it up!

I tried my best my friend, people are just too blind to see it, it's all " silhouette " and "clearly", let me know if I missed anything~ https://drive.google.com/open?id=17Uip5eJKZVZDKlL2E5vVJjLRmD4q01Uq

Spirtr Welcome to the weird and funny world of pareidolia as far as your photoshop work, it is excellent and you have a good eye and talent for layout remember this is one of the easy puzzles. it it were really this obvious somebody would have got it years ago. Not me- I was never one the ones at the maritime park. but there were quite a few looking there The basic reason I (personal opinion here) think this is wrong, is as many clues as you "see" they don't culminate in an exact spot. There are no pictures of something you would see, just a few feet from the casque (the fence/fixture) the wall/stones lots of places in Golden gate park have a mass of images and a bunch of verse clues like this. They all turn out to be dead ends cause while you can get 90-95% there, its really not a 100% match. and that happens time and again that's the simple reason why this has taken so many years. Please please, prove me wrong and dig up the casque ! I hope someone does soon!

maltedfalcon wrote:: Well the most obvious reason is there is no image of central park in the NY image, the 2nd being he did not say it was not in golden Gate Park. The 3rd being all the obvious references in the image to parts of golden gate park. Got it. And I definitely agree with your 2nd and 3rd reasons. I just do not see GGP as the image in the artwork. It certainly has the same shape and the woman's crossed arms are compelling. As you know, I see her as a representation of Russian Hill and her crossed arms as the Belt Railroad. I see the shape of the Native Plant Garden in NMP as well as the shape of GGP.

Durian wrote:: Hi Malted, I understand what Mr. Backstop's question is. I simply commented on your assertion that their are many clues pointing to GGP. I just don't think there are any. I think a lot of people want it to be in GGP because it is the largest park in the City, and therefore it must be there. I think that is essentially what Mr. Backstop is getting at... The roughly rectangular pattern of the woman's dress—with a very slight flare in the lower right—lends support to the idea the casque is in GGP. But other than that, I don't see much evidence. Where is the park's second and larger "flare" around Kezar? Where is the panhandle? Or either a map or image of any of the park's features? And the neckline doesn't match anything in the park. I'm willing to cut the artist a lot of slack in hiding a map in the image. No panhandle included? I get that. But the Great Highway runs essentially straight past the park with a slight bend, yet it's depicted as making four ninety degree turns around the park. To what purpose in the puzzle? If we are to believe that a very slight flare that may not even have been intentional is a big clue, then what are we to make of such a treatment of the Great Highway? Certainly the hard angles of the neckline is a bigger clue than a slight drift of the artist's hand when painting a dress? And what about the woman's shoulders, depicted with the same blue dots as the larger rectangle? Are these adjunct parks? Are these hidden parks? Do I need a special pass from Hogwarts to visit them? And why according to the GGP theories are so many things in the image reversed? For what purpose? When I look at this puzzle from the perspective of GGP, I see endless questions, with very few answers. This lends itself to theories that really stretch credulity, as they try to find images outside of the painting to support ideas on where in the park the casque might be buried. The inherent problem with the casque being in GGP is that we are looking at a painting depicting Alcatraz and the waterfront, not GGP. One has to tune out all the rocks and water and distant islands and references to cable cars and boats to form a theory of GGP. Regarding Aquatic Park, there do appear to be good clues that might tell one where to dig, but unfortunately, it's not as easy as "just go dig it up." Next time I'm in SF (hopefully about three months), I'll investigate the site and see if I can find exactly where the clues point to dig. Then, assuming I can find an extremely likely spot supported by the image, I'll try to pitch it to NPS. But I don't think we should hold our breath. It is unlikely they will approve a dig regardless. The good news is that the area hasn't really changed much, so if the casque is there (and the bigger "if": did Preiss do a good and exact job with the clues?) it is probably recoverable. Finally, I've searched this board, and it does not appear that aside from probing the beach anyone has dug in Aquatic Park. Certainly some folks have picked up on many of the same clues I have, but I don't think any of them used the clock/compass and the Ghirardelli sign as I believe the artist intended. Without these clues, there does not appear to be much in image or verse to give you an exact dig spot. At any rate, Aquatic Park has definitely, at least on this board, been largely overlooked... In reverse order, the reason no one has dug, is no one (after years of looking carefully) has found a logical dig spot that fits the clues. Be very careful of saying things like "as [] the artist intended" you don't really know that and it is just about guaranteed to lead you astray. I understand you don't think ggpark is a match for the image at all which is fine, I cant show you the Golden Gate park map with the upper case G and lower case h but that's not my problem, I've seen it, I am not doing your research. but simply say the park outline on the map perfectly matched the outline of the dress, from the great highway to kezar, like it was traced. the map did not have the panhandle or the extra flares. but it had many many features that matched the swirls of the dragon, take or leave that as you will . In the map (although the great highway is straight,) it showed as a curved line like the neckline, - anyway I've seen it I don't need to find it again. if you are going to be a stickler for accuracy then you cant use Gh for Ghirardelli as the font definitely does not match. So are we going for strict tracing or not? we agree it is not in golden gate park but you can't dismiss it. or do you have a alternate iconic image water tower/transit building image for SF and we have shown there is a method to get from the iconic image to the start of the verse. in multiple image/verse combos you are ignoring this step and others and treating SF as a stand alone puzzle. instead of applying the methods we learned elsewhere As far as permits, SF wants this found badly, so if your pitch is turned down, you arent doing a very good job of "selling it" to them. they don't want random guesses they want solves that do make sense though. I understand you might not have your spot at this point and need to be on site to find it, that is totally logical Also I know you have said the tabletop is a perfect match for the turntable. its not.. look under the watch and you will see part of a central structure (behind the watch) that is not on any cablecar turntable, but was a central feature in a fountain that existed in 1981.

My revised dig spot from a couple months ago is now this: The landscaped area in National Maritime Park that lines up with the Ghirardelli Clock Tower and the East Speaker Tower. This is the curved landscaping to the West of Larkin St. and South of the East Speaker Tower. It has a curved triangular shape. To give yourself an "X" marks the spot, line up the Flag Pole on the Maritime Museum (the top has a ball on it like many flag poles do, that looks like the pearl in Image 1) with the old location of the Turntable. Remember the turntable used to be on the other side of what I call the Circus Tent shelter. These two lines will give you an "X" in that landscaped area. I noticed something awhile back that I couldn't figure out about the clock on the table. It is slightly askew to the left, it does not line up straight from top to bottom. It is set at six o'clock and that tell's us that once you are standing in the correct spot you will be at six o'clock. If you stand on my dig spot the turntable, think cable car bell on top of the clock, is just slightly off from lining up perfectly with the Native Plant Garden when connecting it in a line to the Maritime Museum Flagpole. Remember the upside down IV on the bathrobe? I line that up with the East Speaker Tower which is the head of the Dragon. The part of the verse that ends Giant pole Giant step I believe is covered by the Speaker Tower and Preiss' playing around with the SF Giants. Remember, in the Boston verse the term step was used to mean street block. I don't believe it means Giant Block by any means. I used the "6" and the Large "S" on the sea monster to mean 6 steps or 6 blocks from my starting point at Pier 43. I believe BP used Giant in a creative way to mean Giant pole (East Speaker Tower) and Giant step (distance from tower to the buried casque).

The area I'm talking about is this bushy area to the left of the Speaker Tower. http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_0Fqi4lafUR4/T ... 1%2529.JPG

I will through my hat into the ring here... Looking at both Solved puzzles, there is a consistent pattern with the two. Both have an Iconic image where the puzzle starts. From that image it brings you to the beginning of the verse. In both there is a distance between Iconic image and the start of the verse. This is part of the walking tour, in the proposed solutions from which I can tell Gh ( Ghirardelli is the Iconic image) and from that is where the puzzle starts? From start to finish is a few blocks from each other? This is would not be consistent from the other two solved puzzles. I do see the connection to Gh and the air smells sweet, but I can also see it to be G (Green) h (house) that can refer to the Conservatory of Flowers, this is a famous Green house in GGP. Golden Gate park is true West and passage from the book mentions "in the West were golden beaches" GGP sits on the edge of the west with adjacent ocean beach. Aquatic Park is true North. There are many other connections to GGP 3 that stand out with out doing any research or detective work. 1. High Posts are three: Sutro Towers 3 posts together which can be seen from almost anywhere in the park. There is no need to connect 3 different post to get three high posts. 2. Near ace is high : Ace meaning 1 every definition under ace is meaning 1, high meaning elevated. Hwy 1 is Golden Gate Bridge (elevated) which ties into GGP. 3. The Rose : There is no guessing here, GGP has a Rose garden, no overlay needed or explanation to get us to understand the meaning. Very simple. The research I have done all points to GGP Now I could be totally wrong that this is not the correct park, but I have the same passion that others have for there solutions. I can appreciate the work that others have done here with passion and confidence and that is what is needed to find the next casque.

Goonie68 wrote:: I will through my hat into the ring here... Looking at both Solved puzzles, there is a consistent pattern with the two. Both have an Iconic image where the puzzle starts. From that image it brings you to the beginning of the verse. In both there is a distance between Iconic image and the start of the verse. This is part of the walking tour, in the proposed solutions from which I can tell Gh ( Ghirardelli is the Iconic image) and from that is where the puzzle starts? From start to finish is a few blocks from each other? This is would not be consistent from the other two solved puzzles. I do see the connection to Gh and the air smells sweet, but I can also see it to be G (Green) h (house) that can refer to the Conservatory of Flowers, this is a famous Green house in GGP. Golden Gate park is true West and passage from the book mentions "in the West were golden beaches" GGP sits on the edge of the west with adjacent ocean beach. Aquatic Park is true North. There are many other connections to GGP 3 that stand out with out doing any research or detective work. 1. High Posts are three: Sutro Towers 3 posts together which can be seen from almost anywhere in the park. There is no need to connect 3 different post to get three high posts. 2. Near ace is high : Ace meaning 1 every definition under ace is meaning 1, high meaning elevated. Hwy 1 is Golden Gate Bridge (elevated) which ties into GGP. 3. The Rose : There is no guessing here, GGP has a Rose garden, no overlay needed or explanation to get us to understand the meaning. Very simple. The research I have done all points to GGP Now I could be totally wrong that this is not the correct park, but I have the same passion that others have for there solutions. I can appreciate the work that others have done here with passion and confidence and that is what is needed to find the next casque. Let me reiterate: my starting point is Pier 43. http://www.bing.com/images/search?view= ... tedIndex=9 At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Pier 43 is where prisoners for Alcatraz would be taken on the Belt Railroad to be loaded onto police boats and then to Alcatraz. Likewise, when prisoners had served there sentence they would be taken to Pier 43 and smell the sweet air of freedom. This verse has nothing to do with Ghirardelli. High posts are three: the Balclutha used to be docked at Pier 43 Near ace is high: everyone knows that a high ace means 11. Ace is high in this case means 11 and 11 means Polk Street. The 11th President of the the United States was James Polk and Polk Street ends at the Maritime Museum near the Speaker Towers. The rose may have a couple meanings but understand the simple meaning first, June is the sixth month of the year and it's flower is a rose. The clock on the table indicates 6:00 meaning June.

The word "ace" comes from the Old French word as (from Latin 'as') meaning 'a unit as by definition, (Historically, the ace had a low value) Meaning 1 a pip is 1, a die is 1, if your playing cards then yes ace can be 11, but for me the way I see it is as 1. As for the image showing us a 1, you can take it as you see it, but there is the roman numeral 1 on either side of the women. Durian (That aside, I also don't understand why we need a walking tour to the puzzles? In Chicago, you start "Where M and B are set in stone," (supported by the image) Actually the puzzle starts at the Water Tower in Chicago (image illustration) and you are intended to walk to reach the M & B , where the verse starts. Cleveland is the same method, You start at the Terminal Tower,(image illustration) then you take Euclid street to Ford street to the park. This shows you the direction you are to take to the correct park. Not everything in the puzzle represents something you would have to find then associate with your surroundings. Both Chicago and Cleveland have objects in the illustration that you do not need see to solve the puzzle. Where is the centaur in the gardens in Cleveland? Where is Lincoln in the illustration in Chicago? Do you see a brush in the Chicago illustration? The word brush represents the Art institute there is no Art building in the illustration. My point is that you don't need it to be in the illustration to connect it to the verse. Ace is high = meaning 1 is above you see this with how HWY runs through the park and also on the Golden Gate Bridge being HWY 1. The woman's face resembles the Sphinx statute The number 6 in the middle of the dragon represents the 6 gardens in the park. Again the Rose is a garden That is physical and a match for the park. The dragon head matches the phoenix above the Senior Center (which is above a door which has stone walls) The outline of the dress with the arms crossed over look like a cross ( Praybrook cross) with the word First on it verse has the word first and cross ,"First across" Her sleeves are blocks (shape) surround the park, 38 total I don't see the speaker tower in the illustration, and if that was the object that tells us that this IS the spot it would be a Clear depiction of the object not hidden in the background, Both solved puzzles have a clear representation of the object that is needed to tell you that you are IN the correct area.

I'm changing my views on the number of moons being a possible indication of the Apollo 11 moon landing. It seems like a strong visual idea for whatever reason.

Guys, the top part of the Dragon Is the Speaker Tower. And for an even smaller look go to what everyone refers to as the strawberry. It's not a Strawberry but a graphic depiction of the two speaker towers facing each other. You can see the 2 pronged openings of the speaker tower looking like a bird's head and beak with the movement of sound coming out. Here's another Speaker Tower Clue: If you are standing on the East side of the Turntable facing toward the circus tent shelter, the East Speaker Tower is above the Cablecar Turnaround to the right. Look at the Image and notice the clock on the Turntable. That clock has the Bell representing the Cablecar. Just above the bell to the right way is a leaf in the shape of human lips. These lips represent the Speaker Tower in an ingenious way.

Durian wrote:: 3. Do you really need to go for a walk? Is this indeed, as you say, intended? Seems you can solve the puzzle just fine from finding the starting point in verse and image. The walk is absolutely not central to solving the puzzle. "The walk theory," is just that, potentially totally viable, but as yet unproven. Maybe? 4. I don't believe the dragon depicted is a "match" for anything in GGP, anymore than it is a match for the two dragons on the Eureka. It's a dragon as depicted by the artist. Unless you can find it's more or less exact match or tie it to something meaningful in the verse, it's just a dragon, representative of China. An eighteenth century steamboat is easily something Twain can be associated with. I don't know what in image or verse can be associated with a senior center. 5. I'm sorry, but a rose is only a physical match for any rose—in a garden or not. The rest is loosely tied together conjecture, IMO. 6. It does appear to me that one of the speaker towers is in the image. I'll have to be on location to prove this by getting a photo at the correct angle. In the meantime, since you justifiably want something front and center to tell you where to dig, consider this: At the wall in Aquatic Park overlooking the expanse of water with Alcatraz, islands, mountains in the distance, the Ghirardelli sign behind you, etc. you will find over 1,600 blue tiles. Right there. We have tiles that could easily be inspiration for the dress, sitting right there within a few feet of the wall, from which you can see Alcatraz and the bay. Seems from the painting like maybe this should be a place of interest... Now some questions for you: 1. Why do the woman's fingers mimic the pointing of the vines around the table? Seems intentional? 2. Why does she appear to also operate as a clock, with two pointed hands and a series of Roman numerals laid out as a clock would lay them out, complete with one upside down numeral as appropriate? This seems clearly intentional as well. Seems to me any solve needs to explain this. 3. Were is capital J Justice in GGP? 4. Where is the smoking gun image you seek in GGP? People have been digging up GGP all over the place, with a lot less evidence than Aquatic Parks' wall, view, proximity to the cable car turnaround, and all those blue tiles a stone's throw from Ghirardelli. Durian, I am all good with a good debate and take nothing personally 3. Yes it is important to the puzzle to confirm the starting point of the verse via the Iconic image and the correct path you take. This was done with both solved puzzles. Why would SF be different? 4. IMO the dragon above the door at the senior center connects you to the stone wall's door, you don't need the building to tell you that you are in the correct spot. The door in the stone wall and the dragon above gives you a connection to image and verse. As for the dragon in the Eureka , what part of the verse tells you to go into the ship go to the engine room and find the clock and dragon? 5. In the illustration you have a very pronounce Rose, it stands out because of it's color against the darker background and larger then almost anything in the image, this is a focal point in the illustration. To me with a rose in the illustration and a ROSE Garden in the park are a 100% match. The rose is specific to the ONE garden not just any garden with flowers in it, the garden is dedicated to the ROSE. 6. IF you have to take a picture at an angle to get you too see the speaker and to match it to the illustration, then you might be working to hard, Chicago and Cleveland you did not have to do any manipulation of the main object you are to see at the dig location. 1. Her fingers are pointing to lines between the blocks indicating the math you use to find your x spot. 2. If all the numbers that are on a clock are present around the dress then I could by she is a clock, but why would there be a clock on a table then her to be a clock also? I don't see her as a clock. 3. There is no Capital E or J to physically see as a sign, to me the Education and Justice are two profession Teach and Lawyer. These profession would be capitalized when using them. Karl Marx was an Educator and a Lawyer both professions would be capitalized. In the book under corporate Giants it reference Karl Marx, GGP has a Marx meadow...for all to see. The same spelling as Karl as the meadow...coincidence? 4. Smoking Gun is the ROSE. No guess work here. The reason no one has found the casuqe because they have the clues wrong, and until recently I believe MF did the most work in GGP and not much digging was done by other people, it is only in the last 6 months after the airing of Expedition Unknown that brought an influx of people to the hunt, and people are still trying to figure out how to put all this together.

a perfect photographic match doesnt count for much there was that time in boston they found that bridge arch with the lines and crack that perfectly matched the painting amazing exact match, everybody was excited til we realized the bridge was only afew years old still it was picture perfect find a casque not a photo

did maltedfalcon just say its not in ggp? lollll literally everything points you to ggp. or you dont know what youre doing and are seriously forcing everything to fit your assumed guess.

JoshCornell wrote:: did maltedfalcon just say its not in ggp? lollll literally everything points you to ggp. or you dont know what youre doing and are seriously forcing everything to fit your assumed guess. As evidenced by your successful digs.

It's not in ggp

Durian wrote:: Looking at the image, I think it's pretty clear the dig spot is against a low wall (like the one the woman is standing in front of) and near the 1,600+ blue tiles, like the tiles that make up the dragon in the dress. I think this was essentially one of the photos Preiss gave JPP for the painting: Durian, I like the comparison to the squares in the woman’s sleeves a lot, but since you are calling them “tiles”, I’m not sure you understand what they are. These are actually skylights for the lower level of the museum. This level runs under the entire area, including the bleachers. According to page 12 of this report, the soil is only 2 feet deep. https://archive.org/details/AquaticPark ... FocusedHSR In 2006 the museum closed for 3 years and was completely refurbished. During this time, the skylights were replaced, but every effort was made to have them match the originals. The bleachers were redone and the lawn and the shrubs were replanted, including the ones along that top wall. Also, a new irrigation system was installed. Here is more information http://www.ournationalparks.us/west/san ... time_park/ This photo shows the repair work on the east bleachers. There’s your white wall along the top. See? There just doesn’t seem to be much room for anything to be buried between the top and lower level. I’m sure a great deal of this area must have been dug up during those 3 years. The report I linked above suggests that it would be necessary to remove 1 foot of soil from the lawn during the renovations. It is still possible that a casque could be buried there, I suppose, but with all the changes, it could easily have been uncovered or damaged during that time. Here is the landscaping company’s website. Maybe they could give you some more information. Perhaps they found an odd box (or pieces of one) and just didn’t know what to make of it. https://pgadesign.com/projects/san-fran ... me-museum/

now you have my respect , besides all the thoughtful solutions, this positive attitude is priceless. SF is huge, have you ever consider the SF ZOO? it's on G reat H wy, it has a water fall, and Dahlia garden full of roses, next to a REAL cable car in the children's playground. stone wall everywhere, it has more statues than anywhere in SF. Very Chinese related, Su Lin was the first ever that come to America, landing in San Francisco 80 years ago. In case you don't know, Chinese call the pandas "National Treasure" Also we have this famous Blue Snake, and so many things I'm sure you could come up with a brilliant solution out of. most importantly , that shape of the zoo.... I just don't want to pay the entrance fee that's why I forfeit it Hey, maybe you see things we don't, who knows, I ain't kidding, look

Durian wrote:: Spiritr, you've id'd some interesting shapes at the zoo to play with for sure. I've never considered it, but I'll take a look at one point. Right now, AP is giving me more than enough to handle, and making my head hurt, lol. One interesting thing about the zoo: I bet they've got a real dragon caged up somewhere, though it probably lacks wings. Of course it is a possibility, but remember not one of the pictures you posted shows the zoo the way it was in 1981 and umm that cable car/train, wasn't that in golden gate park?

You were right, they were once in sutro and moved to the zoo on Aug 19, 1957 as features in the Children playground.

come on bro, I'm sure you can figure something out , maybe it's not Wings, it's fins!

how do i delete an account I think this is a better match has the same pattern layered rock.

Durian wrote:: Mr. Backstop (and anyone else), now that the bleacher wall is out, what do you think of this: This is the plaque commemorating the first outside exploration of SF Bay. It's a giant step from the speaker. Seen from the speaker it does appear to have the basic outline of the formation in the image, which I should note looks very different from the rest of the "rocks." Maybe because we're supposed to give it special attention? From an almost straight down perspective, the plaque looks like this: Not sure how much of a cleft it really has (if any), or if it's just an optical illusion from the play of rock coloration, texture and the plaque. I've really got to get on site and poke around! BTW, Mr. Backstop, I don't remember if I mentioned this regarding your solve, but I believe Pier 43 was an entry point to the mainland for immigrants from Angel Island... That is a good eye on your part. I haven't really noticed anyone bringing up the San Carlos plaque. When I saw it I thought it would be a good fit for a Giant step but the realized it didn't fall within my "x marks the spot" area. But it could certainly be around that stone. I also considered the side of the tower as a dig spot and here's why. The Speaker Tower itself is a Giant pole AND a Giant step. The ladder to get to the top of the tower is your Giant step. There is about 2-3 feet of dirt depth around the base but what concerns me is any electrical lines. Would BP have buried it next to the Tower? Perhaps he knew where electric lines were buried before digging. But like I mentioned in my dig spot, I have a pretty small area for "x marks the spot". One of the visual clues in the image I like is the pearl sitting on our Russian woman's neck. If her nicely shaped oval head indicates the Maritime Museum, then the pearl on her neck would line up very nicely to that "neck" of landscaping to the South of the East Speaker Tower. Pier 43 was definitely an important door. The smell of sweet freedom for immigrants coming to our country huh?

MrBackstop wrote:: One of the visual clues in the image I like is the pearl sitting on our Russian woman's neck. If her nicely shaped oval head indicates the Maritime Museum, then the pearl on her neck would line up very nicely to that "neck" of landscaping to the South of the East Speaker Tower. That would be a great clue in a different treasure hunt, but so far none of the placements of the gems in the images, has any connection to the location of the casque. at least in this treasure hunt. The same is true for using the clock hands as a bearing or direction. The nearest thing to an exception for that is NY using the time as a function of steps. It is very easy to pick and choose clues that seem to line up, it is much more difficult when you try to make those clues work like they do in the found casque solves.

Durian wrote:: Could be? I'd like it better if it had a view of Alcatraz and you took a cable car to reach it. Sorry Durian it's in GGP. You do take a cable car to the park, well half way anyways in my theory.

Hi All. Just a quick question. Any past discussion as to the meaning of the symbols encompassing the border? Nothing really inciteful on the wiki other than the obvious mention of the Ying-yang symbol.

davinci4 wrote:: Hi All. Just a quick question. Any past discussion as to the meaning of the symbols encompassing the border? Nothing really inciteful on the wiki other than the obvious mention of the Ying-yang symbol. I believe them to be a map, visual symbols that you see as you work your way to the start of the verse.

davinci4 wrote:: Hi All. Just a quick question. Any past discussion as to the meaning of the symbols encompassing the border? Nothing really inciteful on the wiki other than the obvious mention of the Ying-yang symbol. people have tried to individually identify each symbol and at various places tried to find the symbol at the location. This brings up the question, is absolutely everything in the image a clue?

Anything significant correlation on the ground in SF? I had heard something briefly mentioned in the podcast about Portsmouth Square??? The only reason I bring them up is that they are very detailed and ‘seem’ very intentional. After reading discussions about imagery of American presidents, cable cars etc. just surprised these symbols haven’t had more attention. You are correct, though, they could be nothing.

davinci4 wrote:: Anything significant correlation on the ground in SF? I had heard something briefly mentioned in the podcast about Portsmouth Square??? The only reason I bring them up is that they are very detailed and ‘seem’ very intentional. After reading discussions about imagery of American presidents, cable cars etc. just surprised these symbols haven’t had more attention. You are correct, though, they could be nothing. The three that I found in portsmouth square (or near it) were the 3balls(triangle) on a jewelry store sign accross the street, the yin/yan symbols on jewelry in the window of the shop and the up/down buttons on the elevator in the square. but as I said on the podcast... pretty weak.

Durian wrote:: The two squares and the circle and triangle are USGS symbols. IMO clearly representing the three high posts on Alcatraz (water tower, powerplant smokestack, and lighthouse), and the peak of Mt. Livermore on Angel Island. I am trying to verify this claim and I can't find them in the list of USGS symbols. I must have a truncated list of symbols. Where did you find them and what do they represent on usgs maps? and then how do those symbols "clearly represent" the items you list? here's links to the ones I found.... https://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/TopographicMa ... ymbols.pdf https://nationalmap.gov/ustopo/images/U ... ymbols.pdf

Durian wrote:: The two squares and the circle and triangle are USGS symbols. IMO clearly representing the three high posts on Alcatraz (water tower, powerplant smokestack, and lighthouse), and the peak of Mt. Livermore on Angel Island. I am trying to verify this claim and I can't find them in the list of USGS symbols. I must have a truncated list of symbols. Where did you find them and what do they represent on usgs maps? and then how do those symbols "clearly represent" the items you list? here's links to the ones I found.... https://pubs.usgs.gov/gip/TopographicMa ... ymbols.pdf https://nationalmap.gov/ustopo/images/U ... ymbols.pdf

I have seen that same guide, and the mark for water tower is a circle with lines in it, I don't see that with any of the symbols in the dress. Also the triangle that is in the USGS does not have a dot in the middle....is there different symbols from the USGS? The symbol in the illustration is a triangle with dot in center.

The circle with the dot also represents the sun (see TGAT thread). Interestingly, this symbol is part of Chinese Oracle Bone Script, although none of the other symbols appear to be a match to those types of characters..MaltedFalcon, any pics of the Portsmouth Square symbols??

davinci4 wrote:: Hi All. Just a quick question. Any past discussion as to the meaning of the symbols encompassing the border? Nothing really inciteful on the wiki other than the obvious mention of the Ying-yang symbol. I see the symbols like this: Yin Yang - San Francisco Pumping station #2 at the Aquatic Pier Upside down VI - the six on the Ghirardelli Clock First letter "A" - BUENA VISTA CAFE sign on the restaurants glass Second letter "A" - Argonaut Hotel X - in the logo of the South End Rowing Club at on Jefferson across the street....here's whats on their building http://www.hmdb.org/Photos2/227/Photo227041.jpg 3 circles in a triangular shape - No Idea Up and Down Triangles - Shapes of the spaces underneath the supports of the Golden Gate Bridge http://www.hmdb.org/Photos2/227/Photo227041.jpg The upside down looking V in a square - that simply looks like the shape of a mast on a ship but the square is confusing.....too much of a stretch for me. The symbol at the bottom right - could be a set of windows on a number of buildings around NMP Two half circles at bottom - I have blown this up over and over and all I can see is two heads facing each other. I'd like to say it is the turn table but it looks more like a graphic representation of two heads facing each other. Perhaps referencing the two Speaker Towers....? What also interests me is that below the center of those two heads is a tiny black circle in the gold trim and from what I've seen that is not a printing mistake. I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed it?

davinci4 wrote:: The circle with the dot also represents the sun (see TGAT thread). Interestingly, this symbol is part of Chinese Oracle Bone Script, although none of the other symbols appear to be a match to those types of characters..MaltedFalcon, any pics of the Portsmouth Square symbols?? oh heck no, that was before celphones had cameras....

Circle and dot? Sounds like the Sun symbol on an Astrological chart.

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/PUBS_LIB/TRNOS88NGS19.pdf Found this PDF on symbols , only explanation of the triangle with a dot but no square

maltedfalcon wrote:: That would be a great clue in a different treasure hunt, but so far none of the placements of the gems in the images, has any connection to the location of the casque. at least in this treasure hunt. The same is true for using the clock hands as a bearing or direction. The nearest thing to an exception for that is NY using the time as a function of steps. It is very easy to pick and choose clues that seem to line up, it is much more difficult when you try to make those clues work like they do in the found casque solves. I would have to disagree with you on this. I think Cleveland is a perfect example of what I'm talking about. If you look at Image 4 we see the jewel in the center of the artwork itself and on top of that is is above the ground people use to walk around the park. The circular ball with the triangle points to the ball and toward the location in the planter box. That box is in the central part of the Greek Cultural Garden and visually in the central part of Image 4. The view is telling you where the jewel was located once you were in the right spot. And like Durian had mentioned, I don't think this won't change somewhat from Image to Image but from what I've been studying in my solves, the location on the Image Artwork is a clue as to where the casque may be.

MrBackstop, great stuff with the symbols. I especially like the “A” on the Argonaut Hotel, fantastic!

Durian wrote:: Squares with dots = Land grant, homestead, mineral, or other special survey monument. It's a catch all a surveyor or map-maker might use for things they want to note, but for which there is not an established symbol. Circle = Tanks —often depicted black for oil or blue for water. Triangle = Horizontal control —used for surveying. Mountain peaks or hilltops are commonly used for this purpose. Plus, outside of USGS symbols, a triangle is pretty much the standard mark map-makers use to denote peaks. Why do I think the meaning of these are clear? I don't know why, I guess I was looking for Circle with dot, Triangle with dot and Square with dot. They don't exist as usgs symbols my assumption being he would use the exact symbol if he were actually referencing a map symbol. as we know this was supposed to be one of the easy ones. If he were including a reference hidden like that, I can't see him disguising it also. we see in Chicago and Cleveland he can make the images exactly the way he wants them.

MrBackstop wrote:: I see the symbols like this: Yin Yang - San Francisco Pumping station #2 at the Aquatic Pier Upside down VI - the six on the Ghirardelli Clock First letter "A" - BUENA VISTA CAFE sign on the restaurants glass Second letter "A" - Argonaut Hotel X - in the logo of the South End Rowing Club at on Jefferson across the street....here's whats on their building http://www.hmdb.org/Photos2/227/Photo227041.jpg 3 circles in a triangular shape - No Idea Up and Down Triangles - Shapes of the spaces underneath the supports of the Golden Gate Bridge http://www.hmdb.org/Photos2/227/Photo227041.jpg The upside down looking V in a square - that simply looks like the shape of a mast on a ship but the square is confusing.....too much of a stretch for me. The symbol at the bottom right - could be a set of windows on a number of buildings around NMP Two half circles at bottom - I have blown this up over and over and all I can see is two heads facing each other. I'd like to say it is the turn table but it looks more like a graphic representation of two heads facing each other. Perhaps referencing the two Speaker Towers....? What also interests me is that below the center of those two heads is a tiny black circle in the gold trim and from what I've seen that is not a printing mistake. I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed it? Or, maybe the two half circles at bottom, when joined together, make a whole -- as in hole -- as in place to dig.

MrBackstop wrote:: I see the symbols like this: Yin Yang - San Francisco Pumping station #2 at the Aquatic Pier Upside down VI - the six on the Ghirardelli Clock First letter "A" - BUENA VISTA CAFE sign on the restaurants glass Second letter "A" - Argonaut Hotel X - in the logo of the South End Rowing Club at on Jefferson across the street....here's whats on their building http://www.hmdb.org/Photos2/227/Photo227041.jpg 3 circles in a triangular shape - No Idea Up and Down Triangles - Shapes of the spaces underneath the supports of the Golden Gate Bridge http://www.hmdb.org/Photos2/227/Photo227041.jpg The upside down looking V in a square - that simply looks like the shape of a mast on a ship but the square is confusing.....too much of a stretch for me. The symbol at the bottom right - could be a set of windows on a number of buildings around NMP Two half circles at bottom - I have blown this up over and over and all I can see is two heads facing each other. I'd like to say it is the turn table but it looks more like a graphic representation of two heads facing each other. Perhaps referencing the two Speaker Towers....? What also interests me is that below the center of those two heads is a tiny black circle in the gold trim and from what I've seen that is not a printing mistake. I'm just curious if anyone else has noticed it? While I'm at it... The Yin Yang symbol is upside down. The white half is always on top. This suggests the image is meant to be flipped top to bottom. If you use the Yin Yang symbol as the pivot point and overlay a copy, something wonderful happens -- a word that you need to find the casque gets spelled out.

Durian wrote:: Can you clarify what you are saying here? What is being disguised? All four symbols absolutely exist as USGS symbols. Sorry that I did not spell out "dots" with the triangle, if that has thrown you off. Sure the symbol for tank is circle, but it is a solid circle or one with hatched lines. the symbol for homestead is a square but it is a tiny square, the more common symbol is a dashed line with a dot around the homestead area. specifically what I am saying is the triangle with a dot in the center and the square with the dot in the center and the circle with a dot in the center are not USGS symbols. they could be modified (disguised) symbols, but again I question why he would bother to disguise them when he already hid them along the dress as decorations. by that logic every square on the sleeves represents a homestead or each line around the border of the dress, is an obvious USGS symbol. your opinion may vary but I do not see them clearly as USGS symbols, and although it has been brought up in the past, I don't think the general consensus thinks so either.

I just looked at the PDF...and, I don't see it either. So, stop being a sarcastic prick and just agree to disagree....

misinstl, I like your thinking....welcome aboard.

MrBackstop wrote:: misinstl, I like your thinking....welcome aboard. Thanks. I'm trying to post an image showing what I described, but I don't have permissions yet to upload attachments. I requested permission from the Administrator. Maybe tomorrow I'll be able to post it. I asked myself a simple question. Once I've identified the Giant pole, what do I need to identify the dig location? You need a direction and distance along with the unit of measurement (steps, feet, yards, etc.). The overlay provides the unit of measurement in a really cool way.

Goldengate wrote:: Here are two examples of the dozens of Triratna symbols easily seen inside the GGP Chinese Pavilion. I'm not insisting the casque is there... or that it's even in GGP, but to date, this is the only symbol on the dress found in GGP -- that I'm aware of. (The Chinese Pavilion was dedicated in 1981 -- the year BP buried the casques and was a heavily publicized new attraction to the park) IMAGE 1: CHINESE PAVILION: Nice find. ..its possible that the X and “upside IV” Refer to 10th ave and 4th ave surrounding GGP.

Goldengate wrote:: To post images, use a BB image uploading site -- I don't think the uploading feature works internally. Here's the inverted image overlayed using the Yin Yang symbol as the anchor point. https://bit.ly/2K4bqlr Here's the same image with the text highlighted. BP used the dragon's feet to provide the unit of measurement: feet. https://bit.ly/2MHgHxJ

Durian wrote:: Look again. A fact is a fact. We can disagree over their meanings, but these are USGS symbols. If you choose to deny them, you aren't agreeing to disagree—you are in some type of denial: Correct. Facts are facts: You're a sarcastic prick. So, by all means, post your novel (the one that has had 4 different endings that are *obviously* the correct dig spot) again, as if we didn't read it the first 50 times you posted it during your desperate pursuit of malted's agreement, validation and approval.

My friend tells me Le'nardo invented the circumcision of sarcastic picks. So that series of symbols as markers helps us how?

Durian wrote:: Look again. A fact is a fact. We can disagree over their meanings, but these are USGS symbols. If you choose to deny them, you aren't agreeing to disagree—you are in some type of denial: You are absolutely correct, my printed copy does not have them but when I blow up the pdf, they are there.

A different view of the symbols Possibly Masonic symbols, the G looks very like the G in the Freemason symbol, the square with a dot or circle could be a mason Square circle, the triangle possibly The eye of Providence (triangle with dot) these symbols are connected to a street in SF, with the addition of Yin and Yang, the circle or trefoil pattern.

Durian wrote:: I don't need Malted or anyone's approval. Durian wrote:: I'm trying to cooperatively solve the puzzle. Durian wrote:: Apparently defending something that obvious warrants the title of prick? Ah....right. He finally agreed with you on something. So now, you're civil to him...?? The way you respond whenever he (or, others) disagree with you states otherwise. You want people to agree with you. Period. It's not the content of what you post....it's the tone of the response when you "defend" against a disagreement. That's what warrants the title.

Goldengate wrote:: So funny you should mention this! I was thinking this morning about that -- specifically the Scottish Rite Masonic Center on 19th which has detailed mosaics of many masonic symbols displayed across the front facade. Also it's directly across from Stern Grove (one of the coolest parks in San Francisco for those who have not visited)... personally I'd love if the casque was buried there but nothing I can think of points to it -- that said, worth a visit for those passing through -- especially during the summer concert season! Here are a few of those symbols...like you said, not a match, but interesting, imho: https://www.flickr.com/photos/14696209@N02/24762776421/

mlsinstl wrote:: Here's the inverted image overlayed using the Yin Yang symbol as the anchor point. https://bit.ly/2K4bqlr Here's the same image with the text highlighted. BP used the dragon's feet to provide the unit of measurement: feet. https://bit.ly/2MHgHxJ mlsinstl, very interesting! Photoshop wasn't created until '87.....PC's didn't become 'commonplace' until the mid-'90's. I'm curious -- how would somebody (an average reader, with one copy of the book) have created that type of transparent overlay, in the early '80's? And....although he's an incredible artist...do you really think JJP is that good to have painted that in the perfect position, by hand, so that it could be discovered decades later in the 21st century?

Something to think about....The Masonic on California street, before was once owned by Alban Towne (a Freemason) And once stood his mansion, which was destroyed in the 1906 earthquake with the only thing left standing the Colum's of the entry way which is now in GGP And is know as the Iconic image of the Portals of the past. Gman on this site pointed this out, This would connect the triangle with dot to GGP via the Portals of the Past.

Mister EZ wrote:: mlsinstl, very interesting! Photoshop wasn't created until '87.....PC's didn't become 'commonplace' until the mid-'90's. I'm curious -- how would somebody (an average reader, with one copy of the book) have created that type of transparent overlay, in the early '80's? And....although he's an incredible artist...do you really think JJP is that good to have painted that in the perfect position, by hand, so that it could be discovered decades later in the 21st century? I've thought about that. Plastic overhead transparencies were available in 1982. I used them on other treasure hunts like the Alchemist Dar before I had Photoshop. Besides, hasn't anyone else wondered why the dragon's feet were such odd shapes? Additionally, it's absolutely crucial to pinpoint the dig. I have a complete solution that includes direction and distance from pole and you need to know that the distance is in feet.

mlsinstl wrote:: I've thought about that. Plastic overhead transparencies were available in 1982. I used them on other treasure hunts like the Alchemist Dar before I had Photoshop. Besides, hasn't anyone else wondered why the dragon's feet were such odd shapes? Additionally, it's absolutely crucial to pinpoint the dig. I have a complete solution that includes direction and distance from pole and you need to know that the distance is in feet. I just thought it suffered from bunions. ;-] But, good answer. I remember overhead transparencies. Somebody with awesome tracing skills might have been able to create the overlay. However, I don't think JJP is that skilled to have included it as part of the image clues. (Sorry, JJP....) Still...I hope you're right. Good luck on your hunt....cheers!

mlsinstl wrote:: Plastic overhead transparencies were available in 1982. but not color or even B&W copying onto overhead, simple tracing would have been all that was available.

the dragons claws make a cb (china beach), where you learn part of the immigration story.

More eyes the better on this...Looking at the #'s 37 and 38 in the illustration, the 3 is consistent with the same loop, The vine against the table has the same loop. Would it be possible that the vine next to the table is a 3 and the spiral is a 6? how do i deactivate

JoshCornell wrote:: the dragons claws make a cb (china beach), where you learn part of the immigration story. I see them as Aquatic Pier and Alcatraz.

all set as promised~ Youtube Live starts at 9:30am

Best of luck Fyi the permit “Fine print” says no filming

Yea I know, I'll call again Monday and ask them about it, if they insist I'm not allow to film. I'll do exactly what I do to the cops. Am I being detain? If not, no one has the right to stop me from exercising my First Amendment right to record. And I'll show them my press card. I should be good. btw, reason why he keep telling me this place doesn't exist and I might not be able to dig there, was because I randomly marked a circle on the map and he thought that is where I wanted to dig! and also, do anyone know what "Aza" mean? the bottom half of the email contain a reference number and my information, and " for more information please contact the Aza office" ? Where is that?

Spiritr wrote:: Yea I know, I'll call again Monday and ask them about it, if they insist I'm not allow to film. I'll do exactly what I do to the cops. Am I being detain? If not, no one has the right to stop me from exercising my First Amendment right to record. And I'll show them my press card. I should be good. btw, reason why he keep telling me this place doesn't exist and I might not be able to dig there, was because I randomly marked a circle on the map and he thought that is where I wanted to dig! and also, do anyone know what "Aza" mean? the bottom half of the email contain a reference number and my information, and " for more information please contact the Aza office" ? Where is that? The moment you start to give them any kind of grief, the groundskeeper will "remember" there is a fragile water line just below the spot you want to dig and your dig will be dis-allowed. - so smile and save the filming for after.

Spiritr wrote:: and also, do anyone know what "Aza" mean? the bottom half of the email contain a reference number and my information, and " for more information please contact the Aza office" ? Where is that? The Association of Zoo's and Aquariums which is wierd cause thats a national thing, here is the SF zoo office San Francisco Zoo & Gardens 1 Zoo Road San Francisco, CA 94132 (415) 753-7080

Spiritr wrote:: And I'll show them my press card. I should be good. That should be an interesting exchange. What exactly is your press card used for? I’m going out on a limb here and making the assumption that you are not a writer of any kind.

Spiritr wrote:: Yea I know, I'll call again Monday and ask them about it, if they insist I'm not allow to film. I'll do exactly what I do to the cops. Am I being detain? If not, no one has the right to stop me from exercising my First Amendment right to record. And I'll show them my press card. I should be good. Take it from someone who deals with this subject frequently: Do NOT mention the First Amendment unless you want to be escorted away by police officers and put on a watch list. The issue is that they don’t want to take any chance of giving people ideas—and too many people have already got those ideas.

MrBackstop wrote:: I see them as Aquatic Pier and Alcatraz. i dont.

NO filming , so live has to cancel.

Spiritr wrote:: NO filming , so live has to cancel. no worries - It is true, that rule sucks, however it is much better than - NO digging!

looking for parking now

Spiritr wrote:: looking for parking now How did the dig go?

Unknown: Wonder if he'll join the rest of the hall-of-shame members that seemingly vanish after digging up nothing. There is no shame in an empty hole. It's the second best way I know to advance the puzzle.

Park ranger showed up really late that day, I did dig a big hole in the area . But found nothing. And realized it's a lot harder than what I thought, It's very hard to dig because it's filled with rocks and glasses. And because the park ranger can't stay at the spot for any longer he gave me a reference number as a free pass for my next dig. After that I went back to work. I didn't vanish, and hall-of-shame? I have no idea what you're talking about.

Unknown: I didn't vanish, and hall-of-shame? I have no idea what you're talking about. Our resident curmudgeon is referring to the propensity of some posters, new to the hunt, to disappear after what we assume to be an unsuccessful dig, despite a fair amount of bravado leading up to the dig. Unfortunately, with your post above, you are no longer eligible for the HoS. I'm sorry that your dig did not produce a casque. I hope it was a learning experience, and that you will have better luck the next time. And that you will continue to share with us here.

that's where I dig, and I did it with Image 1/Verse 10.

2 maps of image 1:

Spiritr wrote:: that's where I dig, and I did it with Image 1/Verse 10. That's great! Keep at it!

maltedfalcon wrote:: That's great! Keep at it! I tried my best already, so I think its time to let all of you to finish it

Unknown: that's where I dig, and I did it with Image 1/Verse 10. Yeah, I think I see the problem.

What’s the problem that you saw?

Spiritr wrote:: What’s the problem that you saw? verse 10 is pretty much worked out with NY.

Did it? really? by who?

Unknown: Did it? really? by who? Pretty much everyone who has been seriously working the puzzle over the last 15 years and understands the connections Preiss was trying to make. But if you think that you have a better idea, I for one would love to hear it. Your solve is short on details, especially how you have used Verse 10 to find your dig spot.

Hello, I am new to this. I saw the show regarding the Secret and am hooked. I believe that I know where the San Francisco casque is buried. I need someone to check it out. (Poke the location). Anyone interested?

I am new to this, so I haven't been following the posts. I have a different location that may be the location of the casque. I need someone to poke the ground in that spot for me as I am located in Alaska. Anyone interested in checking it out?

AlaskaCasqueFinder wrote:: I am new to this, so I haven't been following the posts. I have a different location that may be the location of the casque. I need someone to poke the ground in that spot for me as I am located in Alaska. Anyone interested in checking it out? So to be clear, Hundreds of very smart people have worked on this for dozens of years. Lots and Lots of spots have been checked. if you haven't been following the posts how do you know your spot hasn't been checked before ?

MrSeabass wrote:: You need to provide a lot more justification. Nobody is gonna 'poke the ground' without a working theory and a permit. Wrong, after meeting with the park ranger, regardless if you have a working theory or not. YOU NEED A PERMIT! WITH A REFERENCE NUMBER! spending a night over in 850 Bryant is NO JOKE. And one more tip, 2 authorities you DO NOT mess with, Fish and game, and Park Rangers. They are above local police, way~~~~~above.

Spiritr wrote:: And one more tip, 2 authorities you DO NOT mess with, Fish and game, and Park Rangers. They are above local police, way~~~~~above. Do those departments not recognize press passes?

BINGO wrote:: Do those departments not recognize press passes? Source, worked for the McClatchy Company for 17 years There are 3 kinds of press passes, law enforcement, Parking and event.... also who issued the pass makes a big difference. a press pass gets you access. to an area for purposes of reporting, photography, etc. it is not a get in free card. it is not a guarantee of anything, it just lets the security/law enforcment/ organization know you are a reporter. they do not have to allow any access, it's more of an official "Please" LET ME IN They used to be a much bigger deal. but now days since basically any blogger can get one, not so much. The important part is who issued it. even then now with basically instantaneous communication, the press pass sort of has been replaced by organization pre-arranging access ie the super bowl- press passes are useless you need to pre-arrange superbowl credentials

maltedfalcon and yes, those departments are so rich and they basically don't give a shit to anybody.

Hello, My name is Dominick and I am new to the search. I have been working on my solution for about 2 months. I am using Image 1 with verse 7 in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco. I think this verse fits best except for the first 2 line. At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Many hunter believe that "stone wall's door" is the bust of William Shakespeare in Shakespeare's Garden. I think this is wrong. First, there are 2 doors not 1 "door". Second, that is a shelf not an opening. Last, that is a brick wall not a stone wall.

noones gonna disagree with you there dominick.

Dominick wrote:: Hello, My name is Dominick and I am new to the search. I have been working on my solution for about 2 months. I am using Image 1 with verse 7 in Golden Gate Park, San Francisco. I think this verse fits best except for the first 2 line. At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Many hunter believe that "stone wall's door" is the bust of William Shakespeare in Shakespeare's Garden. I think this is wrong. First, there are 2 doors not 1 "door". Second, that is a shelf not an opening. Last, that is a brick wall not a stone wall. welcome to the forum Dom, following what Josh said above, nobody will agree with you either.

I don't know how you include an image with your message, but would love to know. Anyway, I see the hand holding the pine cone from John McLaren Monument in the center of the Image 1. Area of snake unlike other. Also blue glow around the female figure mimicks the silouette of John McKinnon Statue in GGP. So, verse 5 MAY still apply to Image 1.

AlaskaCasqueFinder wrote:: I don't know how you include an image with your message, but would love to know. [img]URL[/img] you can even do gif

I figured out image attachment. Whew. https://s26.postimg.cc/rr7ug3x3t/bart.png Does anyone see the BART logo in Image 1? The reason I ask: I see AA - Ansul Adams CB - China Beach Pine cone in Left hand so far and want to verify the BART connection. Thanks again, Adam

Spiritr wrote:: welcome to the forum Dom, following what Josh said above, nobody will agree with you either. Hello Dom, I'm new to this too. I believe Image 1 goes with verse 5. Seems there are many SF locations and people hidden in verse 5. Consider: Lover's Lane, One of USA first. Feb 20, 1902 is Ansel Adam's Birthday. Born in San Francisco. Ansels' 1st Photo featured in a Gallery was taken at China Beach in 1932, subject Golden Gate. "You'll see" Arc of lights - directly refers to Golden Gate w/ Bridge as "seen" anytime after 1933 I am working on other clues and leads right now. and hope to have a complete solution before too long. Thanks, Adam

AlaskaCasqueFinder wrote:: I figured out image attachment. Whew. https://s26.postimg.cc/rr7ug3x3t/bart.png Does anyone see the BART logo in Image 1? The reason I ask: I see AA - Ansul Adams CB - China Beach Pine cone in Left hand so far and want to verify the BART connection. Thanks again, Adam That wasnt the bart logo at any time during the 1980s

Good Morning Falcon, I'm glad to see your post. Was this logo used in the 1980's. If not, can you post a pic of what their logo was back then. Thanks, Adam Have an excellent day! Adam https://s26.postimg.cc/bftyeoqs9/new_bart.png

AlaskaCasqueFinder wrote:: Good Morning Falcon, I'm glad to see your post. Was this logo used in the 1980's. If not, can you post a pic of what their logo was back then. Thanks, Adam Have an excellent day! Adam https://s26.postimg.cc/bftyeoqs9/new_bart.png Yes this is the logo back in 1980

Perfect, Thanks for your help Goonie68. Are you in SF? Thanks, Adam. P.S. the reason I ask, I am interested in pictures of the William McKinnon Statue in GGP on John F. Kennedy Drive just east of 8th Street. The internet photo doesn't show the details of whats on the front or what the statue silouette from behind looks like. Have an excellent day! Adam

AlaskaCasqueFinder wrote:: Perfect, Thanks for your help Goonie68. Are you in SF? Thanks, Adam. P.S. the reason I ask, I am interested in pictures of the William McKinnon Statue in GGP on John F. Kennedy Drive just east of 8th Street. The internet photo doesn't show the details of whats on the front or what the statue silouette from behind looks like. Have an excellent day! Adam [url][url=https://ibb.co/bZ4Jgo] [/url] [/url] I don't have a view from the back this is the best I have.

Great observation and photo. It is so good to see him closer up. Thanks again for the photo Goonie68! Have an awesome day! Adam

So why did the Gh get ruled out of GGP? No visual evidence? I can't remember if someone had a connection to the park? Anyone?

in a 1980 tourist map of golden gate park when superimposed on the dress ,the G h line up with Great Highway- the G in Great was upper case and the h in highway was lower case. unfortunately I haven't been able to find that map since the early 90s, (not that I am really trying, I've already seen it) but most want to assume I am wrong, the map either doesn't exist or it is not a match like I said. and that it actually means Ghirrardelli because the fonts seem to match but if you actually compare the fonts the letters are actually quite dis-similar

That's really good input Malty. People should take it into consideration and not make any hasty conclusions without facts. I've seen some of your comparative analysis with the other images and I would tend to side with your assessments.

maltedfalcon wrote:: in a 1980 tourist map of golden gate park when superimposed on the dress ,the G h line up with Great Highway- the G in Great was upper case and the h in highway was lower case. unfortunately I haven't been able to find that map since the early 90s, (not that I am really trying, I've already seen it) but most want to assume I am wrong, the map either doesn't exist or it is not a match like I said. and that it actually means Ghirrardelli because the fonts seem to match but if you actually compare the fonts the letters are actually quite dis-similar Maltedfalcon, do you remember what the map looked liked? Was it a cartoonish map? I recently got a hold of a map of GGP, which was the distributed map of GGP at the time (tourist map) I spoke with the company that made the map and they where contracted to do the parks map (tourist) from 80-84. With the description you have mentioned it appears you saw a different map of the park? The map I have does show a Gh but not as the Great Hwy.

it was 90% accurate and 10% cartoonish, and when superimposed on the dress (mirrored) the streets around the lower part of the dress matched perfectly, the Great Highway was curved like the neckline of the dress, which is not accurate in real life at all.

maltedfalcon wrote:: it was 90% accurate and 10% cartoonish, and when superimposed on the dress (mirrored) the streets around the lower part of the dress matched perfectly, the Great Highway was curved like the neckline of the dress, which is not accurate in real life at all. Thanks for your input!

thats cause its a different clue...

JoshCornell wrote:: thats cause its a different clue... Do tell

maltedfalcon wrote:: in a 1980 tourist map of golden gate park when superimposed on the dress ,the G h line up with Great Highway- the G in Great was upper case and the h in highway was lower case. unfortunately I haven't been able to find that map since the early 90s, (not that I am really trying, I've already seen it) but most want to assume I am wrong, the map either doesn't exist or it is not a match like I said. and that it actually means Ghirrardelli because the fonts seem to match but if you actually compare the fonts the letters are actually quite dis-similar I heard about this on the podcast, but what kind of tourist map was it? was it from ggp? was it a book or just a piece of paper? where did you saw it? if you could give me a bit more details, I have ways to find it. was it a multicolour map? You sure it's a English(America) map? What else could you remember besides "Great hwy" ? Just give me a bit more info on how to identify this map, I really want to see this map!

It was a fold out map you could get in the park, it was a free map it was long and skinny, had 3 folds.

just look for the neckline, its incredibly obvious... or you could just ask malted cause he knows the answer.

Throwing my ideas out there so people can say how silly they are- "At stone wall’s door" - I think it's been suggested before, but there's a stone wall with a gate in front of the Conservatory of Flowers that looks like the gate in the mountain in the image https://goo.gl/maps/dGevJoR9grq . Also, the path in front of gate kind of looks like her collar. If you are facing the gate with the Conservatory of Flowers behind you, the flower clock is behind you to the left, just like the flower + clock on the table is in the lower left hand side of the painting. "The air smells sweet" - Flowers at the Conservatory of Flowers. "Not far away/ High posts are three" - Could be the Sutro Tower, but the three posts on top of the Conservatory of Flowers is closer. "Education and Justice/ For all to see" - Near the Conservatory of Flowers there's a James Garfield Monument https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/g ... -2012.html . James Garfield was an educator before he was a president, and the figure at the bottom of the monument is Columbia, which is a personification of the United States (and Justice). Also the monument is on a small hill and is adjacent to JFK drive, one of the main thoroughfares of the park so it's there for all to see. You can see the gate, the conservatory, and the monument from the same spot. "Sounds from the sky/ Near ace is high" - Don't have an explanation for this, but sounds from the sky could be bullets (explain this later) or the hippies playing music in the panhandle. "Running north, but first across" - Could be JFK Drive, it's the only street to run all the way east-west across the park, and it turns north abruptly before exiting the park and connecting with the Great Highway. "In jewel’s direction/ Is an object/ Of Twain’s attention" - It's been suggested before, but I think this might be the William McKinley monument https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/g ... 20111.html . He was the attention of one of Twain's books. Also, if you look at the monument, the figure on top isn't even McKinley, it's Columbia, which is the same figure from the Garfield Monument. Additionally, McKinley, Garfield, and JFK are three of the four presidents who have been assassinated (sounds from the sky/bullets). The remaining president who was assassinated, Lincoln, incidentally also has a connection to GGP. Lincoln Way is the southern boundary street for the park. If you follow JFK Drive towards the McKinley Monument, it takes you to the panhandle. That's where "Giant pole/ Giant step/ To the place/ The casque is kept" would come in, but I don't have any theories as to what those could refer to. Perhaps the giant pole is the panhandle itself?

alphsigm wrote:: If you follow JFK Drive towards the McKinley Monument, it takes you to the panhandle. That's where "Giant pole/ Giant step/ To the place/ The casque is kept" would come in, but I don't have any theories as to what those could refer to. Perhaps the giant pole is the panhandle itself? Interesting ideas for sure. I'm still leaning towards an I1/V6 pairing, but just a couple thoughts on yours: -If you accept the idea that the Image 1 woman's dress is a map of Golden Gate Park, it looks like the pearl itself would be located in the Panhandle section of the park. Wondering if this could somehow actually indicate the dig site? -Judging by a few online image searches, the McKinley monument in GGP's Panhandle looks like it has a face engraved in profile. Unsure if this could somehow be an "Image match" for the man's profile ticked into the rocks of Image 1.

JamesV wrote:: -If you accept the idea that the Image 1 woman's dress is a map of Golden Gate Park, it looks like the pearl itself would be located in the Panhandle section of the park. Wondering if this could somehow actually indicate the dig site? seriously? if the top part of the dress panel is not included as part of the map of ggpark, then the dress is basically not a match for golden gate park if it is included, then therefore the location of the pearl in the image would be outside of golden gate park across the Great Highway which would locate it on the beach. how do you even get the panhandle out of that? its on the other end of golden gate park.

Welcome to the search. I like your new ideas and take on the verse. Good luck in the park and finding additional clues. Get ready for lots of backlash from lots of folks who"know your wrong'"but don't have the casque to prove it. Stay diligent, you'll find it. Adam

AlaskaCasqueFinder wrote:: Welcome to the search. I like your new ideas and take on the verse. Good luck in the park and finding additional clues. Get ready for lots of backlash from lots of folks who"know your wrong'"but don't have the casque to prove it. Stay diligent, you'll find it. Adam Such true words.

maltedfalcon wrote:: how do you even get the panhandle out of that? its on the other end of golden gate park. MF, with the way I was viewing Image 1 as a possible Golden Gate Park / San Francisco map overlay, I'd positioned the neckline in the woman's dress (between the G and h) on the east end of the park, right around Stanyan Street. Were you looking at this one from another angle?

JamesV wrote:: Interesting ideas for sure. I'm still leaning towards an I1/V6 pairing, but just a couple thoughts on yours: -If you accept the idea that the Image 1 woman's dress is a map of Golden Gate Park, it looks like the pearl itself would be located in the Panhandle section of the park. Wondering if this could somehow actually indicate the dig site? -Judging by a few online image searches, the McKinley monument in GGP's Panhandle looks like it has a face engraved in profile. Unsure if this could somehow be an "Image match" for the man's profile ticked into the rocks of Image 1. I think the general consensus is that the bottom right hand corner of the dress is the Fulton/Stanyan corner because it juts out like that corner of GGP does. The face engraved in profile is McKinley. It's been suggested that the man's profile in the rocks of image 1 looks like Lincoln or JFK, which would further reinforce the Lincoln Way or JFK Drive connections.

mind you this is not the correct version of the map this is one I grabbed just to show as an example

Got it, thanks very much for the clarification guys. I'll have a closer, more critical look through my old maps.

I have to say I always thought the dress panel looked more like hairpin turns of the iconic Lombard street than GGP. I believe Josh also commented on that recently.

Does anyone else feel that, besides the dragon vaguely looking like Lombard St or GGP or the dragon in front of the GGP senior center, Image 1 has less strong location matches than the other images? There's no strong landmark or maps matches.

I think that’s exactly the way most of us feel, Preiss stated the more expensive the jewel the harder the puzzle. Not to say pearls are expensive but this maybe what he was alluding to.

JamesV wrote:: Interesting ideas for sure. I'm still leaning towards an I1/V6 pairing, but just a couple thoughts on yours: -If you accept the idea that the Image 1 woman's dress is a map of Golden Gate Park, it looks like the pearl itself would be located in the Panhandle section of the park. Wondering if this could somehow actually indicate the dig site? -Judging by a few online image searches, the McKinley monument in GGP's Panhandle looks like it has a face engraved in profile. Unsure if this could somehow be an "Image match" for the man's profile ticked into the rocks of Image 1. your both wrong (but esp james lol...thats not where pearl would be...) which man, there are several?

jayheedan1 wrote:: I have to say I always thought the dress panel looked more like hairpin turns of the iconic Lombard street than GGP. I believe Josh also commented on that recently. mid dragon section is crooked st

as seen from coit, to be exact.

alphsigm wrote:: Does anyone else feel that, besides the dragon vaguely looking like Lombard St or GGP or the dragon in front of the GGP senior center, Image 1 has less strong location matches than the other images? There's no strong landmark or maps matches. all the landmarks are important...there are more than 2...

Definitely the view from Coit Tower is alluring. If paired with verse 10, where Coit Tower is a grey giant, it only has one path that leads to/from which is Lombard street (slender path) the shadow of Coit Tower have cars abound the roundabout of the Christopher Columbus statue. Is he a Indies native? It is more in line with viewing Alcatraz and a potential isle of B (belevede) to the North. The outline in the San Fran image above the table/flower kinda looks like Belvedere island minus the wings on either side. Or at least as well as the Illinois and Ohio outlines looked. Just a thought if anyone was considering other verse combos

thats the verse for ny the indies native is hamilton.

I like your thoughts Jayheedan1. Verse 10 has possibilities. The shadow probably shines on more than Columbus Statue. Keep your mind open. And have an excellent day! Adam

*smacks head*

Jay, Christopher Columbus is credited with discovering the West Indies. But...he's not a native of the Indies, wasn't from there. He was European ....usually, cited as being Italian.

I actually prefer Raisin Bran, But Sugar smacks are OK. Have a great day Josh.

Mister EZ wrote:: Jay, Christopher Columbus is credited with discovering the West Indies. But...he's not a native of the Indies, wasn't from there. He was European ....usually, cited as being Italian. so its not him...thats what youre being told lol...listen.

You rock GoldenGate. I am convinced that either past theories are mismatched with images, or verse interpretations are not spot on. Every idea is equally brilliant and stupid until the casque shows us who was right. Have an excellent day! Adam

Idk I am bothered by the Indies line, too vague seems every country had an “Indies” since Columbus “discovered” the West Indies and named them would Preiss declare him a native? But also the rise of the “indie” (independent) films and music became popular in the 1930’s. Is this a reference to something in that genre? If you (Josh) had it figured out I guess I need to go back and read your New York solve walkthrough.

that would probably benefit you. as it gives you exact location of treasure lol

I looked for bus routes in San Francisco and guess where route 58 goes? From Downtown to Hamilton (image of map attached). It goes by the Coit Tower, so it is reasonable to expect to see a sign for this bus (TO HAMILTON) there. Have an excellent day! Adam http://tinypic.com/r/333bm2v/9 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/California_State_Route_58

JoshCornell wrote:: so its not him... Which is what I was saying....so, *you* listen.

i just found the tile theme...the tile style and tile maker.

Goldengate wrote:: So far, 100% of your theories have proven to be dead wrong... you've found nothing, just like everyone else here. Pretty sure there are at least 2 people possibly 3 people here who have found casques.

Josh is KOEH! King of Empty Holes.

jayheedan1 wrote:: Definitely the view from Coit Tower is alluring. If paired with verse 10, where Coit Tower is a grey giant, it only has one path that leads to/from which is Lombard street (slender path) the shadow of Coit Tower have cars abound the roundabout of the Christopher Columbus statue. Is he a Indies native? It is more in line with viewing Alcatraz and a potential isle of B (belevede) to the North. The outline in the San Fran image above the table/flower kinda looks like Belvedere island minus the wings on either side. Or at least as well as the Illinois and Ohio outlines looked. Just a thought if anyone was considering other verse combos it has more than one path, yet Lombard is just too far away. He's Italian. No, it doesn't kinda looks like whatever island, instead, it's a map of the park.

Darn I wish that I was in SF to explore the area around Coit Tower. The slender path could be Filbert St. It is a definite path from Coit Tower to the bus stop on Sansome. Wouldn't that be hilarious if BP took a bus and described things he saw along the route? Ghirardelli Chocolate factory is near Route 58 Bus stop too! Anyhow, have an excellent day! Adam

Didn't I read that someone was wondering what the connection was to a 58 they see in image 1?

this "path" could be just a path, without names, and there's a few up there. I don't think this 58 bus route existed back in 1980, only bus line that could get you up there is local muni 39.

Kerry at GGT is looking into it. She indicated that service started in the area in 1972, and she is double-checking to see if Route 58 was active since then or was added later. (415) 921-5858 for contact GGT info.

it's not important, because it's only stops at 4th and perry, 4th and folsom and Battery Pine, it does not take you anywhere near the Tele hill.

Actually route 58 DOES service Sansome St. and Filbert St. (see attached). So he COULD have seen "the sign nearby that speaks of Indies native" right there at the bus stop. Have an excellent day! Adam http://tinypic.com/r/smrkvl/9

Indies native...is 58? a bus stop? a sign of what? Filbert? just post a picture of the sign so I could understand what you trying to refer

Brilliant! That's a great idea! We need someone in SF to go to that Bus Stop at Sansome and Filbert Streets to take pictures of the Bus Stop sign. Although it won't show what the sign would have looked like in 1982, you'd see a reference to Route 58 north servicing Hamilton and Novato. Great idea. Since I'm almost 3000 miles away (2957 to be exact) I can't do it today. Maybe someone else? Thanks, Adam

LOL where it stops today would have very little to do with where it stopped in 1982. Mass Transit in SF has been re-invented at least twice since 1982 and if it is anything like my town, the bus stations, that were in use in 1982 have totally been replaced by other buildings and transit centers. so all of the city routes would be different. The only way this could be useful is find a period map with stops on it and then find a period photo of the street with the sign in question. shoot, even the cable cars stops and routes are different and those are literally set in concrete. imagine bus stops....

Unknown: Pretty sure there are at least 2 people possibly 3 people here who have found casques. None of those people have participated on this forum using their commonly accepted handle in months, and in the case of the Chicago group, years. Are they really "here"?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: None of those people have participated on this forum using their commonly accepted handle in months, and in the case of the Chicago group, years. Are they really "here"? yes lurking

jayheedan1 wrote:: I think that’s exactly the way most of us feel, Preiss stated the more expensive the jewel the harder the puzzle. Not to say pearls are expensive but this maybe what he was alluding to. I remember reading that too, but wouldn't you think a pearl would be less expensive than say an emerald or a diamond? The emerald has been found and the diamond (image 2) has a very clear representation of a map of the Charleston area, something we are lacking here besides a vague rectangle that most people think corresponds to GGP.

uhhh chnatown and vertigo arent solid refs? id say they are pretty damned solidly grounded in sf if you ask me...and that's ignoring everything else...like the chinese immigration theme, practically every single visual clue...should i continue? lol

JoshCornell wrote:: uhhh chnatown and vertigo arent solid refs? id say they are pretty damned solidly grounded in sf if you ask me...and that's ignoring everything else...like the chinese immigration theme, practically every single visual clue...should i continue? lol There's plenty of references, themes, and allusions, but in my opinion we don't have any 1:1 direct matches besides GGP I guess. Image 2 you can clearly see the map of Charleston, Image 3 you can clearly see Roanoke Island, Image 4 you can clearly see Ohio, Terminal Tower, the fountain, the pillars, Image 5 you can clearly see Illinois, the water tower, and the fence, etc.

there's definitely a 1:1 direct matched map, unless you're blind

great highway and ghiradelli arent obvious? the background clues arent obvious? if you cant use the film clues to ground you in the city, you dont know what youre doing.

top left palace of fine arts....

JoshCornell wrote:: great highway and ghiradelli arent obvious? the background clues arent obvious? if you cant use the film clues to ground you in the city, you dont know what youre doing. G and h were obvious.... but the highway...and the chocolate brand....really not seeing it. The background view of the bay is obvious tho, I'd vouch for this one.

I might as well throw this one out to all of you Great hwy fans what does a purple circle, 2 squares, and a triangle has anything to do with Great hwy? or Ghirardelli? Or whatever you think you know what this G and h were? if you have answers to it, please provide visual evidences. or quote out the exact line of the verse to back it up.

the verse doesnt pertain to the great highway, nor ghiradelli...but ghiradelli is most important location in all of the secret.

btw the collar designs do kinda relate to the gh, but they arent "on" it. pretty sure im the only one who has broken the collar symbols.

pretty sure im only one who has got the side dress symbols too. lol

JoshCornell wrote:: the verse doesnt pertain to the great highway, nor ghiradelli...but ghiradelli is most important location in all of the secret. you see I really respect your ideas, but if you could write a little bit more, provide a pic or link, something, anything, to back up your ideas, it would be much more appreciated. "Ghiradelli is most important location in all of the secret" why? saids who? of how?

not willing to disclose this info at current time.

I applaud all of the great research and clue analysis done over the years and see that there are many valid visual references with Image 1 and SF. The symbols and letters specifically intrigue me because all of the connections you've made indicate that there are items visible in the Image from Coit Tower. Gh backwards with an almost matching font is pretty compelling, as are the water tower and other Alcatraz features depicted as symbols. The fact that TODAY the bus stop sign doesn't match the signage or bus route markings of 1982 isn't at issue, what I believe is that it is a strong PROBABILITY that there was a sign near Sansome and Filbert Streets telling folks of a Hamilton route bus. Since the bus was on that street going to Hamilton, that places the searcher in that area looking for the next clue, or on the bus riding to the next clue. Have an excellent day! Adam

the signs are the fort hamilton sign as you come over the verazanno bridge and the sign on fort ham high.

How do those signs "speak" of Indies Native. Next question: Why is Nearby Capitalized? and not included in the previous sentence. Also, Hard is Capitalized, and Vols. Did someone have happy fingers with the caps lock, or are these things important? Thanks again for all of the assistance that you accidentally give me Josh, I sincerely appreciate it. Have an excellent day! Adam

why would they have to?

that clue takes you to harding and outside nyc.

(the outside nyc location tells you the answer)

harding takes you to the statues of the south americans in central park, but mainly to the bolivar statue in cp. i believe there are 3 or 4 in all.

Oh, I see. Like the TPC Harding Park in San Francisco. What a coincidence.

you could argue thats a hint, as you are taken to lake merced and stern grove.

No need to argue. Thanks for confirming a suspicion I had.

Serious question for those that would probably know: Is it physically possible for the casque to be buried in St. Mary's Park in Chinatown? Have there been renovations over the years that would have the soil not deep enough , for example. The clues in verse 10 point there, but is the ground friendy in the "casque being there" kinda way? I hope that it can and is there. As soon as I discovered that one of Sun Yat Sen's major legacies was the creation of his political philosophy of the Three Principles of the People. These Principles included the principle of nationalism, of democracy, and of welfare (3 Vols.) the light bulb lit for me. I hope that this casque is there. And have an excellent day! of course. Adam

Hi Adam, as far as I know back to 1987 it basically looked the same now they have added statues and done sidewalk work and removed/planted trees, -normal things that happen in a park over 30 some years. but the majority of the park seems to remain the same. I've never seen any plausible theory that would take you there.

Thanks for the info. I will smooth off the rough edges of the theory to make it fit 100%, then will share ASAP. Again, I do appreciate all of your tips, tricks and knowledge since I began thinking of the secret. Have an excellent day!

I detailed the map of travel to the casque (my theory). It's: http://tinypic.com/r/23wlcsh/9 I believe that verse 10 search begins at Coit Tower. There are many visual clues to things on Alcatraz island, Ghirardelli Factory evening lights and the tower itself in Image 1. Coit Tower should cast it's shadow (in the evening) like an arm extending over Filbert Steps. If a person walks from the tower down Filbert St. to Sansome St. they would hear the whirring sound of the birds you mentioned. The cars abound in the parking lots near this area. The traveler would seek out the bus to get to the casque and would see that there is a bus (Route 58) that would take them to Hamilton if they wanted. They don't want to go to Hamilton, but they see that this bus connects with the Cable Car System at North Point and Hyde St., so they ride bus 58 to North Point, get off. At this hour of the evening the Ghirardelli sign is lit and the (11 moons of ) the letters illuminate the night sky, how cool. The traveler gets on the Trolley and rides it to Sacramento and Powell St and gets off. They''ve not been on the transit system for very much time, so they decide to ride the California St. Trolley for the last couple blocks to St. Mary's Square. They had heard that the natives (Chinese) speak very highly of Sun Yat Sen and want to make sure to visit his statue. Once you're in St. Mar's Square admiring the statue of Sun Yat Sen. The remaining lines of the verse will help you pinpoint the exact casque location.

dragon on dress is not dissimilar to the dragon on the chinese theatre in hollywood. also, i think the el capitain theatre is also significant for this puzzle.

obvious connection to hollywood is through all the movie references in this puzzle.

in fact, i think the chinese dragon on the theatre is the BEST overall fit, however, it is clearly a combination of a bunch of diff dragons. its even in a large rectangle.