Quest4Treasure Archives

You never let me have any fun

MERLIN wrote:: You never let me have any fun If we need any misdirection we'll read Spirit-Rrrrrr's posts!

Choice wrote:: If we need any misdirection we'll read Spirit-Rrrrrr's posts! TRU-DAT!

MERLIN wrote:: Sounds from the sky.....check out the lat./lon. numbers. https://www.atlasobscura.com/places/luc ... -wind-harp Like my sounds from the sky better viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2993

Starting to worry about your mental health Durian. This is inkblot territory.

Choice wrote:: Starting to worry about your mental health Durian. This is inkblot territory. Shhhhh...he's making Rorschach happy.

Choice wrote:: The blue bay is the blue genie lamp. Sea lion is sitting on the horse's ass, UFO? Do you see a Jedi master or Millennium Falcon? flip it upside down thats a ufo over a tower bro. the uss enterprise is in one, actually...so are chtullhu and xenomorph...havent found the falcon...yet...

Choice wrote:: After removing the clutter in the middle. duck vase at AAM is way better match.

Choice wrote:: You do realize that so. SF is a different city than SF i like it.

JoshCornell wrote:: duck vase at AAM is way better match. I'm sure I can find even a better match at my local salvation army store.

Durian wrote:: This is endlessly fascinating. A shadow on the San Carlos rock/plaque: ok, youve gone full blown dambala...

Choice wrote:: I'm sure I can find even a better match at my local salvation army store. rrrrright...but the duck vase actually has a purpose...it tells you something...

JoshCornell wrote:: rrrrright...but the duck vase actually has a purpose...it tells you something... It quacks?

At least mine is blue! It's most likely a combination of layout of the SF bay and a steam boat. Notice the keel.

Combo of SF bay layout and ss canberra? viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2941

Choice wrote:: At least mine is blue! It's most likely a combination of layout of the SF bay and a steam boat. Notice the keel. its blue cause it is also south lake...its south lake and the duck vase at the aam...

Durian wrote:: And of course there is more—multiple references to cable cars, Angel Island, Alcatraz, Ghirardelli, the Bay and evirons... It starts to add up to a lot of data all viewable in a radius of less than 100 yards. But the fact that while you see all that , there is nothing that leads to a probable dig site , indicating it probably is just random similar shapes and you are in the wrong spot.

Aquatic Park, Durian, I admire your conviction to your theory, I also have a strong case for a theory, and will stay on my theory until I dig and prove it right or wrong. Last month I did go down to the Aquatic Park to check out things in my theory and some of the areas you have suggested, I did a small amount of research to see how the Speaker plays into your solve, as your Giant Pole. When I came across this article about the Park (below) and the Historical significance it has to San Francisco, it really harped on how important this area was. By reading this article I can see why this area would be an impossible dig location even back in 1980. I did go and scout the speaker, and what I could tell is that digging a hole around this structure would of been very hard to do with all the people around and it (even at 5am with Joggers) would of not been very private. So the question is would BP risk someone seeing him in the open digging a hole and would they be curious? Would he take that chance? Not to mention that it is a protected area? Again I am not saying your theory is wrong, but if you can't dig (protected area) to prove it then how will you know it's right? I hope you can get to your location and see the area for yourself, and see that taking your Giant step lands you in concrete, which by the action of taking a step is quite small. Maybe you will get to see with boots on the ground and how strong your theory is. https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/harrison/harrison29.htm#photos

Goonie68 wrote:: Aquatic Park, Durian, I admire your conviction to your theory, I also have a strong case for a theory, and will stay on my theory until I dig and prove it right or wrong. Last month I did go down to the Aquatic Park to check out things in my theory and some of the areas you have suggested, I did a small amount of research to see how the Speaker plays into your solve, as your Giant Pole. When I came across this article about the Park (below) and the Historical significance it has to San Francisco, it really harped on how important this area was. By reading this article I can see why this area would be an impossible dig location even back in 1980. I did go and scout the speaker, and what I could tell is that digging a hole around this structure would of been very hard to do with all the people around and it (even at 5am with Joggers) would of not been very private. So the question is would BP risk someone seeing him in the open digging a hole and would they be curious? Would he take that chance? Not to mention that it is a protected area? Again I am not saying your theory is wrong, but if you can't dig (protected area) to prove it then how will you know it's right? I hope you can get to your location and see the area for yourself, and see that taking your Giant step lands you in concrete, which by the action of taking a step is quite small. Maybe you will get to see with boots on the ground and how strong your theory is. https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_books/harrison/harrison29.htm#photos Interesting..Van Ness...also a street bordering Fenway.

I think I was incorrect about NY and Lombard, not sure it's an actual street name.

I'll be there this weekend, and I'll let you know what evidence I find![/quote] Awesome, So will I!!!

I wanna believe @Durian. The truth is out there.

People, the book is rather small. Yes, the original paintings were large, but they were obviously shrunk down in order to print the book. In 1982 what did we have for tools? Photocopiers, overhead projectors, film to take a photo of the image then blow it up, magnifying glasses. What some of you are missing is that there were editors, writers, printers and BP all checking this thing before it was published. They all seemed to be comfortable with the content and scale of the images. I also do not believe that scaling the image on a computer screen is necessary to solve the puzzle. The image is intended to assist in getting you to the proper location. The verse is what gives you the dig instructions.

Agreed, the print is very small and we shouldn't be over zooming sections to which wouldn't have been possible back in the day. However, just under half of that image is made up of these mountain/rocky outcrops with quite a few of them outlined in the blue. So there must be more to it than just filling in dead space or by it simply stating its on the coast. Why, I even see an old guy sitting down with a walking stick with a robe on?!! and its one of those things that once you see it you can't unsee it. Anyway, I see why Durian is pursuing this area of trying to match something in this landscape to an area or a place at the Aquatic Park and I think its a great effort in either proving it or disproving it by exhausting all options. You really can't beat boots on the ground and I'm sure once Durian has visited the Park at the weekend he'll come away either satisfied at what he sees or just scratching that part of the theory of his list.

Durian wrote:: Giant pole... check Giant step... check To the place The casque is kept... ? ? ? How does this not qualify as a potential dig site? I'll let you know what evidence—if any—I find on site, but to say there is no probable dig site is IMO ridiculous. The rock is even faceted more or less properly by the artist, with the plaque side shown facing the proper angle, and facing a different direction than the side facing you from this view. And most of those "random similar shapes" I've been identifying as potential site confirmers can be found on that rock and in that museum in the photo above. Agree to disagree, but that's my final two cents on the matter until I have more data. Most of the people here are open to new ideas and different ways of looking at things. You could be onto something or not. Keep this in mind: most of the puzzles have very vague instructions as to the casque location. I believe SF is one of them. This translates into probing a large area repeatedly and digging probably more than one hole. The casque can be up to 3.5 feet down in the ground. Even in 1982 this would be a tough task in a high traffic area, but today even more so. The guys in Chicago dug multiple times. The guys in Cleveland dug for 8-9 hours straight. At best you will probably have to probe and dig for several hours. If you cannot get permission, you will be noticed in that area and probably told to stop by the police or other authorities. Not to mention that there are certainly web and traffic cams recording your activities. I think you should go there and scope it out. See for yourself if it seems correct. Being on-site and better yet, digging really puts things in perspective.

Durian wrote:: Awesome, So will I!!! Cool! Which day?[/quote] Sat morning, Good luck!

gManTexas wrote:: I think the feature you are pointing to looks like a bunny face, as in Bunny Meadow in GGP. Especially when we do not zoom in to 300X magnification. What is all this 300X magnification about? Most magnification I see here is no more than 5X which is a typical magnifying glass. Here's a sample of 5X:

Choice wrote:: What is all this 300X magnification about? Most magnification I see here is no more than 5X which is a typical magnifying glass. Here's a sample of 5X: Y'all are free to believe whatever you want. If you post it here, you should expect to receive some thoughts and probably criticism (sometimes constructive). The real task is to go dig up a casque. That is the ultimate proof.

Durian wrote:: It's been brought to my attention that the "C" and "S" I identified are typographical anomalies from Photoshop work done to enhance a scan I've been working off of. Good for finding images, not so great for adding letter forms that aren't there. So I recant that part of my theory. Feel free to continue to burn me at the stake for the rest of it, however. I wish someone that owns a copy of the original book could do a grid photography of the image with 4X optical magnification. Grid of 3X4 or 4X5. Scanning corrupts the image.

how about using the microscope to look into those specific grid or sections? That's how you truly understand what's "in" the image.

Durian wrote:: Maybe we will find God? Or Preiss? All you'll find is bad sarcasm

So Durian, exactly when was the painting you imaged below painted?

Durian wrote:: I believe in the 30's. They've been touched up on occasion as well. There are some nice old pictures on the SF library site with date associated to them: https://tinyurl.com/yd4p97cl

All the gold stenciling in her robe reminds me of the gold ribbons on cable cars.

Hi again, Durian. I'm glad to hear about your pending trip to San Francisco. I just wanted to remind you of something. The land from the bleachers all the way to the street was dug up during the 2009 remodel and this appears to include your dig spot. The skylights were replaced and a whole new irrigation system was installed. Looking at the photos, It seems that the concrete walkway may also have been redone. Here is a link to the street view from July 2009, so you can get an idea of what I’m talking about. https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8063776 ... 312!8i6656 Here are some shots from that street view Maltedfalcon posted on Facebook some aerial photos of the renovation. I have copied 3 of them below. [ Just something to keep in mind while you're there.

Back to my "Coit sundial" theory! Looking closely to the base of the clock on the table and the shadow it casts I notice 2 sharp angle points, one on each side of the base (yellow 2 and 3) and one point in the middle (yellow 1). IMO they can match either the base of the Coit tower or even more interestingly the POV of someone looking straight down from observation deck (red oval) the outline of the tower itself. Even the extended clock shadow matches the shadow of the arched window. Only 5x zoom. Any feedback?

Choice wrote:: Back to my "Coit sundial" theory! Looking closely to the base of the clock on the table and the shadow it casts I notice 2 sharp angle points, one on each side of the base (yellow 2 and 3) and one point in the middle (yellow 1). IMO they can match either the base of the Coit tower or even more interestingly the POV of someone looking straight down from observation deck (red oval) the outline of the tower itself. Even the extended clock shadow matches the shadow of the arched window. Only 5x zoom. Any feedback? I believe those are legs on a desk alarm clock, like a Westclock which used to be really popular.

gManTexas wrote:: I believe those are legs on a desk alarm clock, like a Westclock which used to be really popular. Yes, and the table has a leg too. But there's a hidden meaning (match) in everything here.

gManTexas wrote:: I believe those are legs on a desk alarm clock, like a Westclock which used to be really popular. Yes, just compared it to a few of the scans/photos of the image I have. I think these are legs (left and right) but not really seeing anything in the center.

If there isn't a point in the middle then it's a match to the base of the tower. The picture to the left looks like 2 concave curves and the one in the middle looks like one convex. https://i.imgur.com/jP4zqcd.png

so the hidden message is "legs" ?

Choice wrote:: If there isn't a point in the middle then it's a match to the base of the tower. The picture to the left looks like to concave curves and the one in the middle looks like one convex. https://i.imgur.com/jP4zqcd.png The 4th image on the right is an actual photo of the image, the 1st, 2nd and 3rd images are separate scans of different books. As you can see, each scan has its differences and each book has its own print issue such as little blobs here and there.

Spiritr wrote:: so the hidden message is "legs" ? No, as with everything else in the image, the shape of the clock, including the shadow should match something. Either a structure or natural feature or layout/map of someplace. It has a distinctive shadow.

Durian wrote:: Can't copy the image address, but check the link: Https://www.alamy.com/stock-photo-san-c ... 85685.html We get it, you really like the plaque.

You are persistent! What does that have to do with a clock? My argument is that Coit tower is the gnomon of a sundial. What is the connection of the plaque to a clock?

Choice wrote:: You are persistent! What does that have to do with a clock? My argument is that Coit tower is the gnomon of a sundial. What is the connection of the plaque to a clock? BTW, most of the community here has rejected the notion of using shadows of structures as clues, so that is probably why you are getting much feedback. That and the fact that most people have either drifted away or are only lurking. The shadow issue is partly due to the nightmare that was the Masquerade, but also, that there are too many variables involved.

Choice wrote:: No, as with everything else in the image, the shape of the clock, including the shadow should match something. Either a structure or natural feature or layout/map of someplace. ok, I'm going to share what I know with you on this one, it's not sarcasm. Because you are very close to the truth AGAIN. So let's talk about the image, image only, for now. With everything we know so far of image 1, we know it's June because of the rose, we know it's a Pearl and it's valuable meaning to BP because that's his mother's name, we know it's San Francisco within the given coordinates. The theme of the Image was based on the painting Virgin of the Rocks, the London version. this "clock" might be the only object that obsess you from seeing what's really in the image, the entire "table" including the rose, it's leafs, it's stem, all the way to the bottom of Palencar's signature is a map , since you point out the shadow of the clock, it's actually indicating North, using that as a directional indicator, 4 numbers in the clock's face as N S E W, 3 is N, 6 is E, 9 is S, and 12 is W. using google map, you should be able to match the bottom of the table to the actual map within section 1 of San Francisco. do some research if you don't know what section 1 is. further discussion on the "shadow", in order to accurately pinpoint the casting of shadow, you will need the time of the day, day of the month, and month of the year. Of the image , the hour we're looking at should be 6, but we don't know if it's am or pm. If you suggest the tower as a sundial then the hour we're looking for would be 6pm because the tower opens from 10am-6pm. So in June, if you look down from the top of the tower at 6pm, the view of it's shadow could be your key to unlock the casque. It will cost you $7, but before 1985, it's free.

Durian wrote:: GMan, are you talking shadows of structures themselves, or structures outlined in shadow by the artist? Structures like buildings, poles, trees, etc. casting shadows to reveal the casque location. I mean really, who makes a puzzle that is only good on one or two days a year? Also, if the location depends on a shadow, if the object casting the shadow is destroyed or moved, then the clue no longer works.

Spiritr wrote:: this "clock" might be the only object that obsess you from seeing what's really in the image, the entire "table" including the rose, it's leafs, it's stem, all the way to the bottom of Palencar's signature is a map , since you point out the shadow of the clock, it's actually indicating North, using that as a directional indicator, 4 numbers in the clock's face as N S E W, 3 is N, 6 is E, 9 is S, and 12 is W. using google map, you should be able to match the bottom of the table to the actual map within section 1 of San Francisco. do some research if you don't know what section 1 is. Okay, I'll bite. I would assume that by sections you mean districts? District 1 being Richmond? If not, then just tell us. If you have a good map overlay for the table, then also just tell us. Since you posted it, you will get credit for the find.

This is how San Francisco is planned and divided.

Spiritr wrote:: District 1 being Richmond???? I don't live there. That's why I said I'm assuming political districts. https://sfbos.org/sites/default/files/F ... map_lg.pdf

Spiritr wrote:: District 1 being Richmond? I'm sorry but please go back and do more research on history of San Francisco, or how the city was planned. The thing about posting such image would lead to a lot of controversy, you see there are people who's looking in GGP, some even say they are going to the Maritime Museum and look for clues, telling them it's a waste of time is very cruel. So might as well let them find out on their own. Do you realize how ridiculous this is? The only thing controversial is your statement.

here's is 1:1 3D model that I'm currently working on, with the architectural plans I have. using the base aerial view image that was captured in Oct, around 4pm, that the basic idea of shadow casting once I'm done with everything, and geo-locate this on google earth, I will be able to show you exactly how everything will look in any time and date I wish to see.

gManTexas wrote:: Do you realize how ridiculous this is? The only thing controversial is your statement. No I don't think it's ridiculous at all, of me trying to be peaceful and fair is ridiculous to you? I can't say others are wrong because I have nothing to proof I'm right, you understand? that's why I'm only here to discuss a certain theory and ideas that could possibility be clues to what's in the image.

Spiritr wrote:: No I don't think it's ridiculous at all, of me trying to be peaceful and fair is ridiculous to you? I can't say others are wrong because I have nothing to proof I'm right, you understand? that's why I'm only here to discuss a certain theory and ideas that could possibility be clues to what's in the image. Then discuss. You don't have to be cryptic. Post your map overlay and others will give an opinion. From what I've seen lately, it is actually pretty calm here. I think people can be civil.

it's not a overlay map and I'm not being cryptic, I even post the district map as per your question, go back 1 page and you'll see it.

This is practically what I already covered. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=flip&start=3021 [added] Also I believe the orientation of table is correct. Shadow points to 3 o'clock direction which is 6PM-ish in summer sundial time (due east). I mentioned this before too. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=correction&start=3015

Choice wrote:: Shadow points to 3 o'clock which is 6PM sundial time (due east). it's either you didn't read what I wrote, or simply ignored it. as far as I know, "sundial" only shows sunny hours from 7am to 5pm.

Spiritr wrote:: it's either you didn't read what I wrote, or simply ignored it. as far as I know, "sundial" only shows sunny hours from 7am to 5pm. In the summer on top of a hill the tower can cast shadow well after 5PM. It wouldn't be sunset till after 8:30PM in June.

ok, even tho I'm still very confused on how you're trying to interpret this "clock" or "compass" that you claimed is not a "clock" nor "compass"... but you get the idea of the shadow's time, which I personally believe is correct.

Spiritr wrote:: again, you skipped my question but it doesn't matter, you get the idea of the shadow's time, which I personally believe is correct. Also one major thing wrong with your model. The tower should stand where the statue of Columbus is to match the table diagram.

wait, which model are you talking about? what's wrong with my model? please explain in details

Spiritr wrote:: my model is wrong? how? because it is unfinished ? that makes it wrong??? No, it's wrong because it has to follow the table diagram. Move the tower to where Columbus stands then you're done.

first of all I have no idea what's a "table diagram" this model that I'm currently still working on and is based on the tower's actual site plan and it's actual geo location whatever you see is exactly how it is in real life, so it can't be wrong.

I explained it to you already. Not a clock, not a compass but a sundial. If you want to call it a clock then fine. Splitting hair. You can't have the gnomon 200 feet away from the face of the sundial. On the table, clock sits in the middle of the round table (Columbus turn-about). Table leg (Coit tower) is in the middle of the table like any normal table. Flip the table over (spiral sign) and the tower sits in the middle of the table, middle of the turn-about where Columbus stands. Then you have a proper clock/sundial.

sigh~

Sundials and sun shadows? That doesnt seem like a good methid for this puzzle. It is problematic in so many ways...but the simulation of such a method in a setting is possible. The concept isnt out of the question, its just not well justified in San Francisco, where neither the image nor verse seem to help give us this sort of indication. In Houston, the Raiders of the Losr Ark idea at least fit an actual scene where a fixed object represented the "sun" and the focus if the Atropos Key's diamond (four equal sided figure) center allowed for an alignment that points to the same spot on the ground regardless of the time. The image contained long shadows and several same way facing figures (camel, rhino, genie), which help support a directional motif like a sundial. San Francisco's puzzle does have a literal 6 o'clock reading clock oncentered on a circular table top like a sundial, so its possible theres an idea or simulation of a ray source object-focus. You have to determine what those two things are, however. Is it the thing running north or the object of Twain's attention?

My thought is that if we were even to consider a shadow, it should be in a location that gets sun at least 300 days a year.

Spiritr wrote:: sigh~ Do it your way! You'll always be a couple of hundred feet off target.

erexere wrote:: Sundials and sun shadows? That doesnt seem like a good methid for this puzzle. It is problematic in so many ways...but the simulation of such a method in a setting is possible. The concept isnt out of the question, its just not well justified in San Francisco, where neither the image nor verse seem to help give us this sort of indication. In Houston, the Raiders of the Losr Ark idea at least fit an actual scene where a fixed object represented the "sun" and the focus if the Atropos Key's diamond (four equal sided figure) center allowed for an alignment that points to the same spot on the ground regardless of the time. The image contained long shadows and several same way facing figures (camel, rhino, genie), which help support a directional motif like a sundial. San Francisco's puzzle does have a literal 6 o'clock reading clock oncentered on a circular table top like a sundial, so its possible theres an idea or simulation of a ray source object-focus. You have to determine what those two things are, however. Is it the thing running north or the object of Twain's attention? Image indicates the shadow of the clock points to 3 o'clock direction (east). Note the "3" with thorns. That's bay bridge. You don't need to create a model to figure due east direction. 6PM, time indicated on the clock is when a eastward shadow is cast in the summer. Depending on which verse you use. Verse 10 has clear indication of tower and shadow and eastward direction and number of steps, twice as many as time on clock.

gManTexas wrote:: My thought is that if we were even to consider a shadow, it should be in a location that gets sun at least 300 days a year. Why? Theme is rose, pearl, 6, June.

Choice wrote:: Why? Theme is rose, pearl, 6, June. That's irrelevant. In order to see a shadow, you need sun. SF isn't the sunniest place. Also, like I said, why would anyone make a puzzle, hoping to sell millions of copies of the book, and limit the possible solution to 1 or two days a year? I'm just not buying this proposal. There has not been any evidence that the month connected to each puzzle has any bearing on being able to solve the puzzle, reveal the dig spot or even any pattern that I know of.

The whole point is you do not need to see the shadow and calculate the exact time and date to get the general direction. The table puzzle tells you that. 3 o'clock direction towards bay bridge. That's all you need to know.

If it makes sense, go for it. I've learned in my own exploits (i.e. extraordinary thought experiments) that many things are possible, yet they arent reasonable in terms of what we have learned about Byron Preiss' methods. In other words, what we *think* is going on is different from actual experience in the real world. I find a lot of ideas are worth pursuing, but only to the point where there is a clear and indisputable return. Sun and shadow was a fun twist for Masquerade. It doesnt feel right for the Secret to use the same exact method.

erexere wrote:: Sundials and sun shadows? That doesnt seem like a good methid for this puzzle. It is problematic in so many ways...but the simulation of such a method in a setting is possible. The concept isnt out of the question, its just not well justified in San Francisco, where neither the image nor verse seem to help give us this sort of indication. In Houston, the Raiders of the Losr Ark idea at least fit an actual scene where a fixed object represented the "sun" and the focus if the Atropos Key's diamond (four equal sided figure) center allowed for an alignment that points to the same spot on the ground regardless of the time. The image contained long shadows and several same way facing figures (camel, rhino, genie), which help support a directional motif like a sundial. San Francisco's puzzle does have a literal 6 o'clock reading clock oncentered on a circular table top like a sundial, so its possible theres an idea or simulation of a ray source object-focus. You have to determine what those two things are, however. Is it the thing running north or the object of Twain's attention? I’m working up at the LOH. MF is up there and has El Cids Spear/Banner as his giant pole. The method I’m trying to use is to use the giant pole to line me up on a location confirmation image or verse or an object of Twain’s attention and draw a straight line from the giant pole to arrive at the exact dig location. For example in the case of the LOH. I would draw a straight line from El Cids spear/ banner out to fort mason as fort mason is an object of Twain’s attention. That line if you trace it back from fort mason lands roughly on the lawn close to the lion on El Cid’s side. I’m using a column as my Giant pole.

gManTexas wrote:: My thought is that if we were even to consider a shadow, it should be in a location that gets sun at least 300 days a year. or its a shadow from a street lamp

You guys have a completely different definition of the word "giant"

Rviewer1 wrote:: I’m working up at the LOH. MF is up there and has El Cids Spear/Banner as his giant pole. The method I’m trying to use is to use the giant pole to line me up on a location confirmation image or verse or an object of Twain’s attention and draw a straight line from the giant pole to arrive at the exact dig location. For example in the case of the LOH. I would draw a straight line from El Cids spear/ banner out to fort mason as fort mason is an object of Twain’s attention. That line if you trace it back from fort mason lands roughly on the lawn close to the lion on El Cid’s side. I’m using a column as my Giant pole. After rethinking my above method, I can see that it is too arbitrary. For example I could have chosen “Stone Walls Door” or even Joan of Arc to draw my line. Once you have identified your giant pole, the giant step should be immediately obvious. If it’s not then you have likely chosen the wrong giant pole.

A good option for giant pole and step is the Lyons steps. Has most clues concentrated there with reverse GH visible. A long pole handrail in the middle of steps. Head of the dragon is lion's head. A word of caution, I think Diane Feinstein still lives there and any poking may get you arrested. https://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/69 ... otostream/ https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/matier-r ... to-2486039 And the rose being the palace of fine arts

LOL true, a man was just arrested for threatening to kill her.

Just to prove a point, it took me 1/2 hour to pull another solution out of my ...

Choice wrote:: Just to prove a point, it took me 1/2 hour to pull another solution out of my ... Remember, unless you pull a casque out of the ground, it is only one of thousands of proposed solutions.

300X magnification, thousands of proposed solutions? It seems like you multiply everything by a factor of 100. No wonder everything is bigger in Texas!

Choice wrote:: 300X magnification, thousands of proposed solutions? It seems like you multiply everything by a factor of 100. No wonder everything is bigger in Texas! Lol, just dropping knowledge my friend.

A while back I was super focused on the Lyon street steps as a possible cask location. My starting point was the intersection of Jackson (Stone Wall) and Baker (Smells Sweet). The problem is it's almost impossible to probe and dig around there without getting into trouble with the law as was mentioned. It is interesting how after a while we all end up at the same locations.

Better starting point is GGB, the stonewall's door/gate. Then to the palace (the rose) and then to the pole and steps. [added] Someone needs to go count some steps! Used to live @baker acres residence club in the neighborhood when I was a kid going to college.

MERLIN wrote:: A while back I was super focused on the Lyon street steps as a possible cask location. My starting point was the intersection of Jackson (Stone Wall) and Baker (Smells Sweet). The problem is it's almost impossible to probe and dig around there without getting into trouble with the law as was mentioned. It is interesting how after a while we all end up at the same locations. These are the wrong verses for SF. Malted knew this in 2008 - these verses belong in Montreal. MF got SO CLOSE Then again it's the wrong verse for the image!

Exactly why it was abandoned.....Just thought I would share since you were looking at the Lion steps.

i dont get it, thats the right verse for sf though..

i dont get it, thats the right verse for sf though..

JoshCornell wrote:: i dont get it, thats the right verse for sf though.. I think the verses are incorrectly matched. I believe verse 7 belongs in Montreal, and verse 10 belongs in SF.

JoshCornell wrote:: i dont get it, thats the right verse for sf though.. I think the verses are incorrectly matched. I believe verse 7 belongs in Montreal, and verse 10 belongs in SF.

lol no the above isnt even a terrible idea at all...i mean, its not going to get you to the treasure but its also not wrong.

lol no the above isnt even a terrible idea at all... i mean, its not going to get you to the treasure but its also not wrong.

that clue is actually awesome im gonna pm you it lol ...you made it into my book merlin.

Poor Merlin Took me a few edits for this post! I don't see the connection of Stonewall Jackson to SF

Poor Merlin Took me a few edits for this post! I don't see the connection of Stonewall Jackson to SF

MERLIN wrote:: Exactly why it was abandoned.....Just thought I would share since you were looking at the Lion steps. I 'm not looking at Lyon, It meant to be a joke.

MERLIN wrote:: Exactly why it was abandoned.....Just thought I would share since you were looking at the Lion steps. I'm not looking at Lyon, It meant to be a joke.

Choice wrote:: Poor Merlin Took me a few edits for this post! I don't see the connection of Stonewall Jackson to SF Back in the day I was working with verse 7 - Stonewall Jackson = Stone Walls Door. I no longer think verse 7 applies to SF.

Choice wrote:: Poor Merlin Took me a few edits for this post! I don't see the connection of Stonewall Jackson to SF Back in the day I was working with verse 7 - Stonewall Jackson = Stone Walls Door. I no longer think verse 7 applies to SF.

MERLIN wrote:: Back in the day I was working with verse 7 - Stonewall Jackson = Stone Walls Door. I no longer think verse 7 applies to SF. That's why I asked. What does a confederate general got to do with SF?

MERLIN wrote:: Back in the day I was working with verse 7 - Stonewall Jackson = Stone Walls Door. I no longer think verse 7 applies to SF. That's why I asked. What does a confederate general got to do with SF?

JoshCornell wrote:: lol no the above isnt even a terrible idea at all... i mean, its not going to get you to the treasure but its also not wrong. Where's your spot Josh? Lake Merced?!

JoshCornell wrote:: lol no the above isnt even a terrible idea at all...i mean, its not going to get you to the treasure but its also not wrong. Where's your spot Josh? Lake Merced?!

Choice wrote:: That's why I asked. What does a confederate general got to do with SF? check recent news....

Choice wrote:: That's why I asked. What does a confederate general got to do with SF? check recent news....

Choice wrote:: Where's your spot Josh? Lake Merced?! no

20 minutes to go. $102.50 https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-SECRET-A-T ... Sw1IVbtj6g

What does recent news got to do with the news 40 yrs ago. I 'm losing faith in your brain Josh!

What does recent news got to do with the news 40 yrs ago. I'm losing faith in your brain Josh!

you bidding? lol too rich for my blood. i do love books but that one remains elusive for me lol. i figure ill buy a nice one cheap after treasures are dug

you bidding? lol too rich for my blood. i do love books but that one remains elusive for me lol. i figure ill buy a nice one cheap after treasures are dug

consider your question, consider my answer.

JoshCornell wrote:: you bidding? lol too rich for my blood. i do love books but that one remains elusive for me lol. i figure ill buy a nice one cheap after treasures are dug $30 was my limit!

oh man gotta got at least 50...either way its at 100 lol

i got another one called the merlin mystery (seems hard as f**k) but its already over (had a time limit...went unsolved), i just bought it for my collection.

@Goldengate, That's hate crime challenging the mentally challenged.

Stonewall Jackson has no connection to SF. South should keep their traitors where they belong. War of northern aggression my arse!

$340, went cheaper than before

Someone has the book posted on wiki. I don't know how legal that is! http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/fet ... et_OCR.pdf

A couple of month ago I called the reference to Stonewall Jackson "too far fetched". viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=fetched&start=2629

Goldengate wrote:: While I agree the south should stay in the south, Stonewall Jackson was sent to San Francisco to help manage the city during the gold rush / pre-civil war era. do you have evidence of this cause i dont think its true.

stonewall jackson has 3 ties to cali, with 1 specifically to san francisco: a) direct sf tie is to alcatraz via the winder family. the one winder was the captain of the fort at what is now alcatraz, and he had family in the stonewall brigade with stonewall jackson....controversy erupted when he had photos taken. they were confiscated by the government for national security reasons because of his family ties, and he was moved to fort mason. b) after finding silver in virgina and using it to forge fake silver coins made of led with a silver coating, jacksons uncle moved to california during the gold rush and hit it rich c) the stonewall mine in the ghost town in san diego (part of san diego part of puzzle)

im literally trying to find it and cant which is why i ask.

i do care which is why i ask...do you know what books? i have 3 books about sf i know preiss used, and actually did check them lol. i also googled around and found nothing about it.

so you dont have an answer and are probably mistaken. ok then. thanks.

what do yo get out of making false claims about me? honestly? lol

i still question the claims..his wife did live in san diego for 1.5 years after his death, and the family (her sister and sisters husband) named the kid stonewall (middle name) but like i said thats in san diego and not jackson there in the gold rush as an authority...

We should make a new topic thread to take our fights there; itchy and scratchy? I miss scrappy!

OOOHHH!!! Like a treasure hunting fight club!

where was he stationed in san francisco? what fort? i dont see any info on that anywhere. im calling it out as possibly not true. im happy to be wrong, but if noone can find info on it then its probably not true lol.

its important because when youre at jackson square and figure out that he was on the blackjack stamp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Jack_(stamp ) it tells you where to go next... so good on merlin for getting it. he just shouldve stuck with it...

JoshCornell wrote:: its important because when youre at jackson square and figure out that he was on the blackjack stamp https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_Jack_(stamp ) it tells you where to go next... so good on merlin for getting it. he just shouldve stuck with it... Thomas Jonathan "Stonewall" Jackson...not Andrew Jackson. (Edit: And....this is the image 1 thread, not image 7. So....Jackson Square?)

i know mister_ez...read more carefully. you didnt "get" it.

jackson square is in san francisco as well by ghiradelli (*smacks head*)...jackson st (yes, both named after 20 dolla bill jackson) leads from there to where merlin was noting. and for VERY good reason. a very very very important reason.

JoshCornell wrote:: i know mister_ez...read more carefully. you didnt "get" it. Goldengate wrote:: Stonewall was transferred to San Francisco. He was stationed there. No...no, I did read it correctly. GG and others were talking about Stonewall Jackson.... you started disputing whether or not he was stationed in San Francisco, followed by using a stamp of Andrew Jackson as 'proof' that you're right. (And, yes I know about the neighborhood called Jackson Square, in SF......which, doesn't make anybody leap to the Black Jack stamp or allow them to say, 'Stonewall Jackson wasn't stationed in San Francisco'.)

https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/sf015.asp

Choice wrote:: https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/sf015.asp Still, that has has nothing to do with, nor does it refute, what GG was saying about 'Stonewall' Jackson.....

I too have an issue connecting a confederate general to SF but looking at the location it is the "entrance" to Jackson street that can be interpreted as Jackson's door. [added] I realize that GG has a connection to SF but that's not what he's well known for. It's like saying Bill Cosby was a great influence on african-american families. That may be true but not he's known for now.

Choice wrote:: I too have an issue connecting a confederate general to SF but looking at the location it is the "entrance" to Jackson street that can be interpreted as Jackson's door. Heh...yeah, me too. Note: GG even said, that he doesn't think Stonewall is linked to puzzle. But, GG also says he has an old history book showing that 'Stonewall' was stationed in San Francisco....and, has offered it up, if a simple question is answered. Instead of an answer to that question, he got, "I think you're wrong about 'Stonewall'.....here, look at the Black Jack Stamp (that shows Andrew and doesn't disprove anything about 'Stonewall' being stationed in S.F.)."

i never used the stamp to show i was right, i was explaining why it was important, to the contrary of the explicit claims made by your oh so beloved goldengate. neither did i use it as evidence against goldengates statement. im disputing whether its true because, when looking, i see zero evidence of it. i can find his wife in sd but i cant find him in sf? prob for good reason. lol.

Choice wrote:: 20 minutes to go. $102.50 https://www.ebay.com/itm/The-SECRET-A-T ... Sw1IVbtj6g WHAT!!!!!!!?????? Can you pm me next time you see listing like this? $344 only.... OMG!

Spiritr wrote:: WHAT!!!!!!!?????? Can you pm me next time you see listing like this? $344 only.... OMG! But you got the Japanese version. 3 of them! I offered the guy $30 when it was still $18. I think he laughed at me!

No, I have more than 3... But who cares about the oversea edition, I want the original! It’s a no reserves listing?

Spiritr wrote:: No, I have more than 3... But who cares about the oversea edition, I want the original! It’s a no reserves listing? Can we move these conversations offline or via PMs? Let's stay on topic please.

It is on topic Tex, bless your heart! BTW it was a no reserve auction.

Choice wrote:: It is on topic Tex, bless your heart! BTW it was a no reserve auction. How is related to Image 1? And I know what Bless your heart means.

I have too much time on my hand today!

I wonder if this lamp post was there at the podium in the late 70's. Nice view of the palace @ north (clock bell or rose or both!))

Choice wrote:: It helps if you provide some description of what you see in an image. Otherwise we have no idea what you are trying to show.

gManTexas wrote:: It helps if you provide some description of what you see in an image. Otherwise we have no idea what you are trying to show. I thought it was self explanatory. Look at the same color ovals and find resemblances/matches.

Choice wrote:: I thought it was self explanatory. Look at the same color ovals and find resemblances/matches. Please see this very persuasive post: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=737&p=140807&hilit=south+pole#p140807

gManTexas wrote:: Please see this very persuasive post: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=737&p=140807&hilit=south+pole#p140807 Yes it was entertaining the 1st time I read that.

Fenix wrote:: Once is certainly better than none. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HZFTUtbn1RU

Choice wrote:: Hey Choice,can you give me a link to the image 1 you are using. It is a much better resolution than the one I have been using?

Rviewer1 wrote:: Hey Choice,can you give me a link to the image 1 you are using. It is a much better resolution than the one I have been using? https://imgur.com/fWLGACL

Choice wrote:: https://imgur.com/fWLGACL Thanks Choice! It looks much better than the one I was using.

Durian, how do you explain backward Gh? You would think that it's telling you the location is on the south side of the Ghirardelli sign. And because only the 1st couple of letters are visible the location must be a good distance to the east.

Durian, how do you explain backward Gh? You would think that it's telling you the location is on the south side of the Ghirardelli sign. And because only the 1st couple of letters are visible the location must be a good distance to the east.

what part of the puzzle is the zoom from with your circle and star on it? your fish is a seal lol.

what part of the puzzle is the zoom from with your circle and star on it? your fish is a seal lol.

They haven't been making chocolate there since the 60's. They are made in San Leandro. Is there any sweet smell still all the way back there from their store in the front? Also sign not visible there.

JoshCornell wrote:: what part of the puzzle is the zoom from with your circle and star on it? your fish is a seal lol. Just under iron gate to the left

JoshCornell wrote:: what part of the puzzle is the zoom from with your circle and star on it? your fish is a seal lol. Just under iron gate to the left

Choice wrote:: They haven't been making chocolate there since the 60's. They are made in San Leandro. Is there any sweet smell still all the way back there from their store in the front? Also sign not visible there. Without a doubt it smells sweet. I stood on the side walk in front of the main door and you could smell the sweet amorma of chocolate from there. There is no doubt this is the fist line in the verse IMO

Choice wrote:: They haven't been making chocolate there since the 60's. They are made in San Leandro. Is there any sweet smell still all the way back there from their store in the front? Also sign not visible there. Without a doubt it smells sweet. I stood on the side walk in front of the main door and you could smell the sweet amorma of chocolate from there. There is no doubt this is the fist line in the verse IMO

Didn't the author explain that the smell sweet was a metaphor in the Japanese interview?

Goonie68 wrote:: Without a doubt it smells sweet. I stood on the side walk in front of the main door and you could smell the sweet amorma of chocolate from there. There is no doubt this is the fist line in the verse IMO Main door? The arched door in the back or front entrance to the store?

Goonie68 wrote:: Without a doubt it smells sweet. I stood on the side walk in front of the main door and you could smell the sweet amorma of chocolate from there. There is no doubt this is the fist line in the verse IMO Main door? The arched door in the back or front entrance to the store?

Choice wrote:: They haven't been making chocolate there since the 60's. They are made in San Leandro. Is there any sweet smell still all the way back there from their store in the front? Also sign not visible there. They make a small amount of melted chocolate for there Sundays in the main part of the ice cream restaurant area, you can watch the chocolate being turned and melted, they have been doing this for decades.

Choice wrote:: They haven't been making chocolate there since the 60's. They are made in San Leandro. Is there any sweet smell still all the way back there from their store in the front? Also sign not visible there. They make a small amount of melted chocolate for there Sundays in the main part of the ice cream restaurant area, you can watch the chocolate being turned and melted, they have been doing this for decades.

So are we off the Japanese translation of the interview now?! He explained that the sweet smell was a metaphor for sweet song or love or some nonsense!

So are we off the Japanese translation of the interview now?! He explained that the sweet smell was a metaphor for sweet song or love or some nonsense!

Main door? The arched door in the back or front entrance to the store?[/quote] hope is the thing with feathers poem meaning

Durian wrote:: And at the street corner, you have a beautiful view of Alcatraz, with it's smokestack, water tower, and lighthouse—the three high posts. You also have a view of Angel Island (Education, the whole point is immigration for Preiss) and capital "J" Justice, Alcatraz. All four are represented by the USGS symbols near the "Gh" in the dress. The triangle represents the peak of Mt. Livermore on Angel Island. The blue circle represents the water tower. The two squares are catch-alls for surveyors, denoting special landmarks otherwise without a set symbol—in this case used for the smokestack and lighthouse. I can see your point of view ,but for me the verse takes direction further down the pier to the intersection of Embarcadaro and Jefferson.

Durian wrote:: And at the street corner, you have a beautiful view of Alcatraz, with it's smokestack, water tower, and lighthouse—the three high posts. You also have a view of Angel Island (Education, the whole point is immigration for Preiss) and capital "J" Justice, Alcatraz. All four are represented by the USGS symbols near the "Gh" in the dress. The triangle represents the peak of Mt. Livermore on Angel Island. The blue circle represents the water tower. The two squares are catch-alls for surveyors, denoting special landmarks otherwise without a set symbol—in this case used for the smokestack and lighthouse. I can see your point of view ,but for me the verse takes direction further down the pier to the intersection of Embarcadaro and Jefferson.

Blue circle?

Choice wrote:: Just under iron gate to the left gotta be praying dude (still as yet unidentified)

Goonie68 wrote:: They make a small amount of melted chocolate for there Sundays in the main part of the ice cream restaurant area, you can watch the chocolate being turned and melted, they have been doing this for decades. i saw this. can vouch.

Goonie68 wrote:: They make a small amount of melted chocolate for there Sundays in the main part of the ice cream restaurant area, you can watch the chocolate being turned and melted, they have been doing this for decades. i saw this. can vouch.

Again noone wants to touch the fact that there was a Japanese translation of smells sweet.

Again noone wants to touch the fact that there was a Japanese translation of smells sweet.

This is the reason you can smell the chocolate it's in the pallor 10 line poems about life

Choice wrote:: Again noone wants to touch the fact that there was a Japanese translation of smells sweet. The question is why would you need a metaphor when you actually have a place where the air smells sweet.

So the puzzle works only sundays Goonie?

Goonie68 wrote:: The question is why would you need a metaphor when you actually have a place where the air smells sweet. I guess you know better than the author

Choice wrote:: So the puzzle works only sundays Goonie? Well at that door it's everyday of the week

By the way the platform the pearl sits on is hexagonal.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=65&v=ENrmULWKbeM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC73kdOL5hk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xat1GVnl8-k

U suck merlin!! We are doing serious SF love song investigation here!!

Choice wrote:: U suck merlin!! We are doing serious SF love song investigation here!! My bad.

Choice wrote:: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC73kdOL5hk the japanese clue is a reference to both...mine, directly (though, indirectly referenced), yours, indirectly (while, directly referenced).

Durian wrote:: I thought you were looking in GGP? Welcome to the dark side! I am perusing a theory that starts at Ghirardelli and moves east.

Choice wrote:: Again noone wants to touch the fact that there was a Japanese translation of smells sweet. At stone wall's door The air smells sweet The start of the Verse refers to Pier 43 (stone wall's door). The arch of Pier 43 is the door as well as the inspiration for the arched top of Image 1's design. The air smells sweet refers to the sweet smell of Freedom. Pier 43 is where the immigrants came after being processed at Angel Island and would enter San Francisco. Pier 43 is also where the prisons for Alcatraz would travel. Once they served their sentence they would be brought to Pier 43 where they would enjoy the sweet smell of Freedom once again.

MrBackstop wrote:: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet The start of the Verse refers to Pier 43 (stone wall's door). The arch of Pier 43 is the door as well as the inspiration for the arched top of Image 1's design. The air smells sweet refers to the sweet smell of Freedom. Pier 43 is where the immigrants came after being processed at Angel Island and would enter San Francisco. Pier 43 is also where the prisons for Alcatraz would travel. Once they served their sentence they would be brought to Pier 43 where they would enjoy the sweet smell of Freedom once again. If you are using a metaphor yes this works as well, this same method can be used for Ghirardelli IMO, Domingo Ghirardelli was the most successful chocolatier in San Francisco, which also could be the sweet success of his business. Plus you actually have the smell of chocolate in the air, so seems to me like a reinforced clue.

MrBackstop wrote:: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet The start of the Verse refers to Pier 43 (stone wall's door). The arch of Pier 43 is the door as well as the inspiration for the arched top of Image 1's design. The air smells sweet refers to the sweet smell of Freedom. Pier 43 is where the immigrants came after being processed at Angel Island and would enter San Francisco. Pier 43 is also where the prisons for Alcatraz would travel. Once they served their sentence they would be brought to Pier 43 where they would enjoy the sweet smell of Freedom once again. Using Pier 43 instead of Ghirardelli wouldn't change much either way.

Durian wrote:: Just for fun, let's remember the burial sight is most likely shown pretty much as it is in real life somewhere in the puzzle. And remember what was represented in Chicago and Cleveland physically took up several feet of space in the real world, similar to the San Carlos rock/plaque. If this is the spot, look at the similarities—near the middle of the puzzle, no blue glow: And if you look at the SF puzzle, there are a limited number of spots in the painting that can be the spot . Can you show how this logic works in Image 12?

Fenix wrote:: I've been a fan of this interpretation as well. Slightly less obvious and makes sense with the Japanese hint IMO. That said, as Goonie68 mentions, there are other ideas that fit well. If either this or Gh are correct, when coupled with 3 wooden posts in the same general area there only seem to be a few options. The E&J Japanese hint may be the real way to move this forward. I guess it all depends on the direction one is using for the verse and location. The area supports both directions, from the next line in the verse " Not far away high posts are three" Ships or Fisherman's Warf sign....?

You'd think GG bridge would be the most obvious door/success of sea journey

Goldengate wrote:: I don't dispute that Pier 43 was one of several prisoner pick up / drop off areas around San Francisco, BUT was that information reasonably available for tourists -- or even residents IN 1982? My family owned (still owns) a restaurant right on Fisherman's Wharf -- I worked the place as a kid/teen/young adult in the 80s and 90s, even hauling in catches on the boat, and never heard that story. Again, I know it's true, but how REASONABLY ACCESSIBLE was that specific information in 82? I believe that's something really important to prove... was there a plaque, guidebook or one of those goofy illustrated maps of the area that imparted that information -- ANYTHING at all BP could have used that likewise a key searcher would have had reasonable access to in 1982? Chicago and Cleveland didn't require extensive historical research to find the casques. I think finding contemporary (to 1982) maps, guidebooks, photos, etc is vital -- and to that, modern resources needed to find those items are a godsend. But granular local trivia that may not have been available at the time just doesn't seem to fit methods needed to solve this paperback treasure hunt. There's a lot to like about the wharf area but for other reasons -- just trying to be realistic in how clues were reasonably meant be interpreted. And who knows, if it is in the Wharf area, it could be one of those Man and Beast / Mozart and Beethoven things were it didn't really matter -- each got the key searcher to the right place. Either way, best of luck to everyone working so hard to run down clues to this area! One thing that the Japanese edition of the book did for me is to question how complex or simple these puzzles are intended to be. If the hunt was open to people that may not even visit the casque cities, the clues would have to be well known or stuff easily found in an encyclopedia or similar.

It's called summer vacation!

Goldengate wrote:: I think finding contemporary (to 1982) maps, guidebooks, photos, etc is vital -- and to that, modern resources needed to find those items are a godsend. Found a nice 1982 SF Map, has some nice detail. Even states when the Cable Car system will be closed. https://imgur.com/fdeFljF

bbi wrote:: Found a nice 1982 SF Map, has some nice detail. Even states when the Cable Car system will be closed. https://imgur.com/fdeFljF That's awesome. Do you have a higher resolution image?

Unknown: Using Pier 43 instead of Ghirardelli wouldn't change much either way. Not trying to change anything, just giving Choice a metaphorical sweet smell (Freedom) as opposed to an actual, physical smell (Ghirardelli). But of course my starting point is Pier 43 and ending point is within a matter of yards from Durian's.

Goonie68 wrote:: I guess it all depends on the direction one is using for the verse and location. The area supports both directions, from the next line in the verse " Not far away high posts are three" Ships or Fisherman's Warf sign....? I have the Balclutha as High posts are three. The ship was docked right there at Pier 41 until it was moved where it is today. The other important part of my solve being in Aquatic Park is the Belt Railroad. The Belt ran from the Presidio under Fort Mason and along Jefferson Street to a major loading and unloading point Pier 43 and down the San Francisco coastline. It moved supplies, soldiers, immigrants and Alcatraz prisoners. The Belt railroad is represented by her folded arms which point to the 4th line on one cuff and the 3rd line on the other cuff. So if you use this starting point and move down toward Twain's attention (Paddle Wheel on Hyde Street Pier) you will end up at the Park boundary of Hyde Street. If you also notice the big number "6" and large Letter "S" on the dragon/snakes body, I see those meaning "6 Steps" (just like the 5 steps in Boston are city blocks). Six blocks from Pier 43 to the West is Hyde Street and the Park.

gManTexas wrote:: That's awesome. Do you have a higher resolution image? Sure, here you go: https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qN4fYo ... sp=sharing

Thanks bbi!

gManTexas wrote:: Thanks bbi! No Problem, have also found a 1979 Muni Map (in two parts) but again very clear in detail. Part A - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hDAuYy ... sp=sharing Part B - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PA1Gtg ... sp=sharing The interesting thing for me on this map (the 79 one). Is the smaller piers around Fisherman's Wharf. They changed around 1980, early 81 I believe. In this one you will see the piers look very similar to the ladies hand with the finger pointing and the 3 shorter piers. Do you think BP or JJP would have used a slightly out of date map? i.e. using a map that was only a year or two old? I'm pretty sure they would have used the most current, but it did make me wonder how often certain tourists maps where updated. Just wondering, because if they used a 1979/80 map they may have taken some imagery out of that without even realizing the changes made to the piers. Just a thought.

No, the actual size of these maps would be too small for Palencar's painting. Remember, anyone can obtain a copy of the city's cartography booklet at the Planning Department on Mission Street. And, to those that lives far away in the East Coast, a copy could also be obtain in the Library of Congress in D.C. it looks something like this: the 1981 and 1982 book looks even better because it's colored. Yes I have them, no I can't share, it's Federal Law. And I'm not taking such risk. part I contains building plans, part II contains blocks and lot information, and part III were maps.

bbi wrote:: No Problem, have also found a 1979 Muni Map (in two parts) but again very clear in detail. Part A - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hDAuYy ... sp=sharing Part B - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PA1Gtg ... sp=sharing The interesting thing for me on this map (the 79 one). Is the smaller piers around Fisherman's Wharf. They changed around 1980, early 81 I believe. In this one you will see the piers look very similar to the ladies hand with the finger pointing and the 3 shorter piers. Do you think BP or JJP would have used a slightly out of date map? i.e. using a map that was only a year or two old? I'm pretty sure they would have used the most current, but it did make me wonder how often certain tourists maps where updated. Just wondering, because if they used a 1979/80 map they may have taken some imagery out of that without even realizing the changes made to the piers. Just a thought. It's very possible. Or, since this took a while to put together, maybe the map was new when BP first got it.

if you pay more attention to details you will realized these municipal maps would be too small for Palencar to use. Look at the Manhattan map he used, look at the size of that map.

Does anyone see this in the image?... https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tiffa ... 22.4793839

Spiritr wrote:: if you pay more attention to details you will realized these municipal maps would be too small for Palencar to use. Look at the Manhattan map he used, look at the size of that map. Why would a map on the wall of his current studio have anything to do with the maps he used in 1979 and 1980

maltedfalcon wrote:: Why would a map on the wall of his current studio have anything to do with the maps he used in 1979 and 1980 He said he burned everything also.

and for security reasons, most maps of MUNI were altered, to the actual city of San Francisco, it only shows the correct bus route. and it looks like this: look at the shape of Golden Gate Park

he said he burned all the photos, but that's a MAP, a multi-purpose usage MAP! I post that to help the board think more logically , just think, how on earth can Palencar get his hand on one of these local maps when he's all the way in OHIO? those maps were just NOT accurate enough in sizing and shapes, for him to use as a map underlay anyways, my point was if we were to predict the material BP used, such material should be much more detailed and more precise. It should be more government official and not from a municipal company. meaning someone can walk into their local library and studies. Without paying $2 to the Muni.

It doesn't seem like "precision" was a real concern when this puzzle was thrown together....but thanks for droppin that knowledge.

fine, that map on his wall is a scale 1000 ft to 1 inch topography map of the Manhattan borough, showing the island’s springs, brooks, creeks, and swamps, where land meets landfill, tracing former shorelines and hilltops. Mostly used by structural engineers. AKA Water Maps.

I have no doubt the map on the wall is precise - it's the painted image i'm concerned with - I don't think the precision was transferred over.

MERLIN wrote:: It doesn't seem like "precision" was a real concern when this puzzle was thrown together.... correct, that's if BP is still alive today to help us. But now he's gone, "precision" should be taken very seriously to not just finding these casques, but also learn and studies the wisdom from all of this puzzle.

MERLIN wrote:: I have no doubt the map on the wall is precise - it's the painted image i'm concerned with - I don't think the precision was transferred over. again, I'm not saying that's the MAP he used for these painting!!! BUT IT CAN BE USED AS A REFERENCE SO YOU KNOW THE KIND OF MATERIAL IN HIS STUDIO ARE VERY PROFESSIONAL AND FOR US TO THINK HE WILL USED SOME NON-OFFICIAL MAPS FROM MUNI TO PROJECT THESE PAINTINGS IS VERY UNLIKELY. are we good?

Spiritr wrote:: again, I'm not saying that's the MAP he used for these painting!!! BUT IT CAN BE USED AS A REFERENCE SO YOU KNOW THE KIND OF MATERIAL IN HIS STUDIO ARE VERY PROFESSIONAL AND FOR US TO THINK HE WILL USED SOME NON-OFFICIAL MAPS FROM MUNI TO PROJECT THESE PAINTINGS IS VERY UNLIKELY. are we good? I think what we need to think about is what type of map the general public may have been expected to use in 1982 to solve these puzzles....and not be too quick to dismiss newly introduced maps.

MrBackstop wrote:: I have the Balclutha as High posts are three. The ship was docked right there at Pier 41 until it was moved where it is today. The other important part of my solve being in Aquatic Park is the Belt Railroad. The Belt ran from the Presidio under Fort Mason and along Jefferson Street to a major loading and unloading point Pier 43 and down the San Francisco coastline. It moved supplies, soldiers, immigrants and Alcatraz prisoners. The Belt railroad is represented by her folded arms which point to the 4th line on one cuff and the 3rd line on the other cuff. So if you use this starting point and move down toward Twain's attention (Paddle Wheel on Hyde Street Pier) you will end up at the Park boundary of Hyde Street. If you also notice the big number "6" and large Letter "S" on the dragon/snakes body, I see those meaning "6 Steps" (just like the 5 steps in Boston are city blocks). Six blocks from Pier 43 to the West is Hyde Street and the Park. What I see in the image as the 4 and 3 are, her finger points to the bottom of the 4th block and her other finger touches the 3rd block and 1/2, 43 1/2. 43 1/2 pier is where you can take tours of the bay and Alcatraz, (Educational tours) The home of the Red and White Fleet. You can also use the blocks as 4 & 3 for 43. Right next to 43 1/2 is the historical Ferry Arch # 43, if you notice her arms the top arm arches over the bottom one , the woman or dragon is the Fair Folk or Fairy...giving the play on words Ferry ( woman/dragon) Arch (arms) 43 fingers. Seems like her fingers and arms are giving multiple clues. famous poems honesty

That's a nice map I've never seen. And I like your thoughts on the 43 1/2 as well. And I agree, her fingers and arms give all kinds of clues. I know that most people in GG Park think the crossed arms mean Crossover Drive but I really like this as the Belt Railroad. The Belt was still running up until the early 90s and much of the track is still in the ground today.

MrBackstop wrote:: That's a nice map I've never seen. And I like your thoughts on the 43 1/2 as well. And I agree, her fingers and arms give all kinds of clues. I know that most people in GG Park think the crossed arms mean Crossover Drive but I really like this as the Belt Railroad. The Belt was still running up until the early 90s and much of the track is still in the ground today. IF the woman in the image had a belt I would say for sure, the tracks are noticeable down at the pier, I see the connection but does it show up in the image?

MERLIN wrote:: Does anyone see this in the image?... https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tiffa ... 22.4793839 there is a seal in the sf image looking up like that, bottom right.

of all those posted maps i like the 1979 b muni one best, but thats just me. thanks bb.

of all those posted maps i like the 1979 b muni one best, but thats just me. thanks bb.

Are we in Sausalito now? My bud took a picture of that with a seal on it making out. It was famous locally for a while. http://alsybrianlegacybook.com/

Are we in Sausalito now? My bud took a picture of that with a seal on it making out. It was famous locally for a while. http://alsybrianlegacybook.com/

id say that seal is exactly 100% referenced.

JoshCornell wrote:: there is a seal in the sf image looking up like that, bottom right. If you are going to post on this forum, can you please try to use full coherent sentences? Are you capable of forming full cogent thoughts? I am personally tired of your mental diarrhea, clogging up the threads. If you have a problem with me calling you out, take it to PMs and we can work it out, instead of whining about how you are mistreated, but Josh you really need to stop inflecting your damage on this forum. I believe it would be a much better place, especially intellectually, if you would just leave for good.

JoshCornell wrote:: there is a seal in the sf image looking up like that, bottom right. If you are going to post on this forum, can you please try to use full coherent sentences? Are you capable of forming full cogent thoughts? I am personally tired of your mental diarrhea, clogging up the threads. If you have a problem with me calling you out, take it to PMs and we can work it out, instead of whining about how you are mistreated, but Josh you really need to stop inflecting your damage on this forum. I believe it would be a much better place, especially intellectually, if you would just leave for good.

That time of the month gman?

That time of the month gman?

what the hell are you on? are you drunk? thats perfectly coherent. why you trolling for no reason?

he didnt. he was asking. i did. lower right...its just the head facing up exactly like the statue. it also references something else, more obviously.

he didnt. he was asking. i did. lower right...its just the head facing up exactly like the statue. it also references something else, more obviously.

Durian wrote:: Merlin, where exactly in the image do you see the seal? On the Wiki grid I see a seals face at I-8. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/86301628/Image%2001

Durian wrote:: Merlin, where exactly in the image do you see the seal? On the Wiki grid I see a seals face at I -8. http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/86301628/Image%2001

MERLIN wrote:: Does anyone see this in the image?... https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tiffa ... 22.4793839 I've been lurking for a few months and this is my first post. Sausalito has some interesting connections to Image1/Verse 7, but not enough for a solid theory (yet). Tying into the immigration theme, "Willie" Yee Tock Chee immigrated from China in the early 1900's. For 60 years, he owned and operated a family business known as the Marin Fruit Company (605 Brideway, Sausalito). The MFC is definitely a place where the air would smell sweet. https://goo.gl/maps/GTVpBuZhuRF2 Yee Tock Chee Park was the docking place for the first paddlewheeler ferry service to Sausalito in 1868. (Hidden SF). If you browse pictures on Google or Yelp, there are concrete stairs that lead down to the water. Since the shoreline is technically a stone seawall, would it be far fetched to call this "stone wall's door" (entrance)? There some relatively tall wooden posts in that park, but definitely more than 3. What's most interesting is the dedication plaque on the large concrete tree planter. It is right underneath the most prominent corner of the planter, with a large (maybe giant) step leading up to it. There is a tree in that corner, but maybe just enough room around it to bury a casque. https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8550129,-122.4788566,3a,75y,351.31h,80.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAF1QipPjkPbcsy2U9MZZja7IbzWl94FLfQPyuLZLhawb!2e10!7i5376!8i2688 360 pan from YTC Park: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m12LuzPCTgg There are a couple of connections to the Mark Twain clue. Between 1922 and 1941 Eureka was on the Sausalito commuter run. (Wikipedia). The ferry dock is just a stone's throw away from YTC Park. Alternatively, Mark Twain admired elephants. http://www.twainquotes.com/Elephant.html What word caught Mark Twain's attention? Read here: http://www.twainquotes.com/Chauffeur.html For the 1915 Pan Pacific Expo at the Palace of Fine Arts, 12 supposedly full-size elephant sculptures were made as flagpole bases. If the elephants were full-size, then the flagpoles were gigantic. Fast forward almost 50 years later, the venues deteriorated. Prior to restoring the Palace of Fine Arts, most other structures were demolished but two of the elephants and a fountain were salvaged. Guess where they were relocated? Not far down the street from Yee Tock Chee park is Vina Del Mar park. https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/plaza-vina-del-mar-sausalito?select=gXrc5YQTGB3autI_AqSTcw https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/plaza-vina-del-mar-sausalito?select=zy3Y3K03ne2zGeq3CNEgrA NIce light fixtures, right? Unfortunately, I think there are less than 11, and the flagpoles there are not the originals. Lastly, if you see an aerial view of that area, you might see a shape that might have looked like a dragon's head in the past, that looks more like a seahorse now. That's all I have, so I'm passing the baton. Sorry that most of the images I chose are links instead of in-line.

MERLIN wrote:: Does anyone see this in the image?... https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tiffa ... 22.4793839 I 've been lurking for a few months and this is my first post. Sausalito has some interesting connections to Image1/Verse 7, but not enough for a solid theory (yet). Tying into the immigration theme, "Willie" Yee Tock Chee immigrated from China in the early 1900's. For 60 years, he owned and operated a family business known as the Marin Fruit Company (605 Brideway, Sausalito). The MFC is definitely a place where the air would smell sweet. https://goo.gl/maps/GTVpBuZhuRF2 Yee Tock Chee Park was the docking place for the first paddlewheeler ferry service to Sausalito in 1868. (Hidden SF). If you browse pictures on Google or Yelp, there are concrete stairs that lead down to the water. Since the shoreline is technically a stone seawall, would it be far fetched to call this "stone wall's door" (entrance)? There some relatively tall wooden posts in that park, but definitely more than 3. What's most interesting is the dedication plaque on the large concrete tree planter. It is right underneath the most prominent corner of the planter, with a large (maybe giant) step leading up to it. There is a tree in that corner, but maybe just enough room around it to bury a casque. https://www.google.com/maps/@37.8550129,-122.4788566,3a,75y,351.31h,80.05t/data=!3m6!1e1!3m4!1sAF1QipPjkPbcsy2U9MZZja7IbzWl94FLfQPyuLZLhawb!2e10!7i5376!8i2688 360 pan from YTC Park: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m12LuzPCTgg There are a couple of connections to the Mark Twain clue. Between 1922 and 1941 Eureka was on the Sausalito commuter run. (Wikipedia). The ferry dock is just a stone's throw away from YTC Park. Alternatively, Mark Twain admired elephants. http://www.twainquotes.com/Elephant.html What word caught Mark Twain's attention? Read here: http://www.twainquotes.com/Chauffeur.html For the 1915 Pan Pacific Expo at the Palace of Fine Arts, 12 supposedly full-size elephant sculptures were made as flagpole bases. If the elephants were full-size, then the flagpoles were gigantic. Fast forward almost 50 years later, the venues deteriorated. Prior to restoring the Palace of Fine Arts, most other structures were demolished but two of the elephants and a fountain were salvaged. Guess where they were relocated? Not far down the street from Yee Tock Chee park is Vina Del Mar park. https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/plaza-vina-del-mar-sausalito?select=gXrc5YQTGB3autI_AqSTcw https://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/plaza-vina-del-mar-sausalito?select=zy3Y3K03ne2zGeq3CNEgrA NIce light fixtures, right? Unfortunately, I think there are less than 11, and the flagpoles there are not the originals. Lastly, if you see an aerial view of that area, you might see a shape that might have looked like a dragon's head in the past, that looks more like a seahorse now. That's all I have, so I 'm passing the baton. Sorry that most of the images I chose are links instead of in-line.

Thanks for sharing Nike - I can see you definitely put some thought into that theory. Here is something else on the other side of the bridge that ties in with asian immigration. https://www.google.com/maps/place/China ... 22.4617136

Thanks for sharing Nike - I can see you definitely put some thought into that theory. Here is something else on the other side of the bridge that ties in with asian immigration. https://www.google.com/maps/place/China ... 22.4617136

its at GH 7 guys. i already travelled through there and checked some stuff out btw...stopped in strawberry on my way to grizzly peak...

its at GH 7 guys. i already travelled through there and checked some stuff out btw...stopped in strawberry on my way to grizzly peak...

I'm not sure if this is part of the puzzle or not.....I kind of stumbled upon this by accident - but I figured I would share with the group "just in case". https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/m ... -2012.html

I 'm not sure if this is part of the puzzle or not..... I kind of stumbled upon this by accident - but I figured I would share with the group "just in case". https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/m ... -2012.html

MERLIN wrote:: Thanks for sharing Nike - I can see you definitely put some thought into that theory. Here is something else on the other side of the bridge that ties in with asian immigration. https://www.google.com/maps/place/China ... 22.4617136 OK, getting deeper by the minute. We are in San Rafael now.

MERLIN wrote:: Thanks for sharing Nike - I can see you definitely put some thought into that theory. Here is something else on the other side of the bridge that ties in with asian immigration. https://www.google.com/maps/place/China ... 22.4617136 OK, getting deeper by the minute. We are in San Rafael now.

I like all the star maiden statues on top of the building tho. https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/s ... ition.html

I like all the star maiden statues on top of the building tho. https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/s ... ition.html

Choice wrote:: I like all the star maiden statues on top of the building tho. https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/s ... ition.html Would look good on top of a Christmas tree.

JoshCornell wrote:: what the hell are you on? are you drunk? thats perfectly coherent. why you trolling for no reason? What value have you brought to this forum Josh?

MERLIN wrote:: I'm not sure if this is part of the puzzle or not.....I kind of stumbled upon this by accident - but I figured I would share with the group "just in case". https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/m ... -2012.html this is what most people first see in sf, cause its right outside the powell street station exit, which is where most people get off after coming into the airport...these days...

gManTexas wrote:: What value have you brought to this forum Josh? more value than, point in case. thanks for your douchebag input....douchebag.

MERLIN wrote:: Would look good on top of a Christmas tree. theres some irony to this statement...the picture he posted above is from the center area of the ppe...but theres another pole (i cant see base on picture but looks similar to shape of pole in above image)...its clearly more massive than everything else there (i only see one though, not 12)...and it's topped with a star (possibly the sun).

JoshCornell wrote:: this is what most people first see in sf, cause its right outside the powell street station exit, which is where most people get off after coming into the airport...these days... I never noticed that clock before.....at least it has the right color scheme. It kinda reminds me of the table leg and clock in the image.

well, it is right by the powell cable car turntable...and, so...one's first sweet taste of san francisco...

Look up "tower of jewels" Josh

yes im well familiarwith it...the pole im speaking of is located on opposite side parallel to palace of fine arts.

It was suggested that "in jewel's direction" may refer to tower of jewels. I still think it's east to NYC.

JoshCornell wrote:: yes im well familiarwith it...the pole im speaking of is located on opposite side parallel to palace of fine arts. There are many poles in that area. Here is a model: Here's the column of progress: On an unrelated subject (from pole!) here's Mural 'Justice' by artist Frank Van Sloun at the San Francisco Elks Club

Choice wrote:: There are many poles in that area. Here is a model: Here's the column of progress: On an unrelated subject (from pole!) here's Mural 'Justice' by artist Frank Van Sloun at the San Francisco Elks Club that is them eh, i wasnt totally sure cause theres only 8 (the other 4 are in center area, as those ones aren't ones from the original photo you posted)...but i kinda figured...there other one is substantially bigger...

can you see this one in the model? (would be just off to right of top and just off to left of bottom image)...

Pole! Uhh haa ... Rod munch! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iLCUXyEjxHY

whachu doin at Lyon?

MERLIN wrote:: whachu doin at Lyon? Feeding the kitty!

Has anyone looked into portsmouth square, next to Hilton, old hall of Justice used to be before 68. Portsmouth just because of her mouth. Columbus Tower/Sentinel Building nearby being her nose.

Portsmouth seems to be discussed a lot - with a number of different verses.

Choice wrote:: Has anyone looked into portsmouth square, next to Hilton, old hall of Justice used to be before 68. Portsmouth just because of her mouth. Columbus Tower/Sentinel Building nearby being her nose. Her fingers also point to 6 and 8, 1968 was when the old Justice was demolished.

Choice wrote:: Has anyone looked into portsmouth square, next to Hilton, old hall of Justice used to be before 68. Portsmouth just because of her mouth. Columbus Tower/Sentinel Building nearby being her nose. The monument for the first public school in California resembles the large rock in the top left of image 1.

nikesparq wrote:: The monument for the first public school in California resembles the large rock in the top left of image 1. I don't get it. Stay away from my sounds from the sky! viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2993

Choice wrote:: I don't get it. Stay away from my sounds from the sky! viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2993 No worries, I was referring to the one in D4 of the wiki image.

Lets connect the dots. Direction from GGB? Another darn clock?!

Choice wrote:: Lets connect the dots. Direction from GGB? Another darn clock?! https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/de ... d955028324

Here's another interpretation of 11 moons: 11 words spoken on the moon Apollo 11 This would work great for armstrong park in new orleans!

Another interpretation is that the moons are way markers of landmarks. The larger the moon, the closer you are to the destination. The largest moon points to the dig site, where dragon's head (lion's nose) pushes up earth.

Well, they all point at something. You just have to figure what those things are.

If you could link Apollo 11 into the hunt that would be cool. As far as having 11 moons in the image it could mean that the Ace is to be counted as an 11 instead of 1 although that throw off HWY 1 as the Ace.

For example moon #3 points to an structure with dome on top. I ranked the moons by size.

Durian wrote:: I think they are metaphor. Eleven glowing objects high above your head. The individual letters of the Ghirardelli sign, hovering over your head as you work the puzzle along the San Francisco waterfront. How about the dots on I's?! Don't they count?

Rviewer1 wrote:: If you could link Apollo 11 into the hunt that would be cool. As far as having 11 moons in the image it could mean that the Ace is to be counted as an 11 instead of 1 although that throw off HWY 1 as the Ace. The 11 words "That's one small step for man, one giant leap for mankind." I propose the "Giant" being the largest moon, the 2 steps (including leap) being the two next largest moons. Largest moon being the destination and the two "steps" on each side leading to the final spot. Similar to lyon's steps or Pioneer park.

Durian wrote:: I think they are metaphor. Eleven glowing objects high above your head. The individual letters of the Ghirardelli sign, hovering over your head as you work the puzzle along the San Francisco waterfront. Why the different sizes of moons? There's a big difference between the largest and the smallest size moon.

Or Goat hill. Afterall letters under h are ILL.

Durian wrote:: If you think the answer is two, you have to explain what the moons are, why Goat Hill would be of interest to anyone, where the images of Goat Hill are in the painting, why the "Gh" and everything else in the painting are reversed, and finally how all the rest of the clues applying to Aquatic Park are irrelevant. I explained all these before in prior posts. Please read fully, don't just scan through. Moons are way markers related to the landmarks below them. The smaller the moon the further the landmark is to the dig site. Reversed Gh also could mean the final destination is to the south-east of the Ghirardelli Square. Notice the loops on top of the 2 I's: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Telegraph ... co#History viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2611

Durian wrote:: I think they are metaphor. Eleven glowing objects high above your head. The individual letters of the Ghirardelli sign, hovering over your head as you work the puzzle along the San Francisco waterfront. If the Gh are referring to the sign then why would we need 11 glowing moons to connect to the word Ghirardelli.? So you would need to work the puzzle at night?

I did explain that! Reversed Gh is reference to the sight being south of Ghirardelli square. As many things in this puzzle you should expect multiple meanings. i.e. the Lincoln rock formation could be an elf, Tiburon/Belvedere, a goat. Similarly Gh could refer to both Ghirardelli and Goat hill. Or even Greenwich/hill (Telegraph hill) intersection. IMO your solution is too heavily reliant on a wall painting. That would be a lazy puzzle by the creator.

Durian wrote:: ... and that somewhere in the puzzle, we'll be standing underneath the sign. No, not somewhere in the puzzle. It must be the view from the final destination to be so predominant. It's starting to sound like the solution to "sounds from the sky" being radio waves. It will be everywhere! That wouldn't be a clue.

Nothing else is reversed. That's the normal way of digits on a Roman numeral clock. I explained that before too on the counter-clockwise running clock theory, similar to the round-about around Columbus statue. Also checkout the following intersection sign. https://tinyurl.com/ycr6zgln

Characters are not reversed. It's the way they are supposed to be for a normal clock. If they were mirrored like G and h then it wouldn't make sense. Counter clockwise running clock and yin yang show the direction of flow. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V2f-MZ2HRHQ

No, mirrored is not going to work. I wish you read my old posts. You make me work double! If mirrored 6 and 7 would be 4 and gibberish! viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2607

She's pointing to 3,4 or 6,8. 7 is position of her hand (back of) indicated by Roman 7.

Hey guys.....not to change the subject - but I think there may be a hidden image/s in the shadowing on the left side of James Dean's face....especially around eye/nose/chin area. Can you guys make anything out? Credit for images to Mariska..... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1ekAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg

MERLIN wrote:: Hey guys.....not to change the subject - but I think there may be a hidden image/s in the shadowing on the left side of James Dean's face....especially around eye/nose/chin area. Can you guys make anything out? Credit for images to Mariska..... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1ekAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg Why did the Japanese artist put Gwen Stefani in that pic?

none of those images and illustrations were done by artist from Japan. All the visuals in these books were provided by Byron Preiss Visual Publication, Inc. according to the record I got from the UNI agency, clearly stated Futami can Not add or modify the materials provided. All they have was exclusive rights on text translations, and the arrangements of copyrights Bantam granted to the Japanese publisher were limited to Dec 31st,1983.

none of those images and illustrations were done by artist from Japan. All the visuals in these books were provided by Byron Preiss Visual Publication, Inc. according to the record I got from the UNI agency, clearly stated Futami can Not add or modify the materials provided. All they have was exclusive rights on text translations, and the arrangements of copyrights Bantam granted to the Japanese publisher were limited to Dec 31st,1983.

Spiritr wrote:: none of those images and illustrations were done by artist from Japan. All the visuals in these books were provided by Byron Preiss Visual Publication, Inc. according to the record I got from the UNI agency, clearly stated Futami can Not add or modify the materials provided. All they have was exclusive rights on text translations, and the arrangements of copyrights Bantam granted to the Japanese publisher were limited to Dec 31st,1983. Um....'Gwen Stefani'....but, you chose to focus on whether or not it was a 'Japanese' artist...? lo...l...?

Spiritr wrote:: none of those images and illustrations were done by artist from Japan. All the visuals in these books were provided by Byron Preiss Visual Publication, Inc. according to the record I got from the UNI agency, clearly stated Futami can Not add or modify the materials provided. All they have was exclusive rights on text translations, and the arrangements of copyrights Bantam granted to the Japanese publisher were limited to Dec 31st,1983. Um....'Gwen Stefani'....but, you chose to focus on whether or not it was a 'Japanese' artist...? lo...l...?

your'e kidding right?....it's Marilyn Monroe.

MERLIN wrote:: your'e kidding right?....it's Marilyn Monroe. Naaaaah.....that's Gwen.

Mister EZ wrote:: Naaaaah.....that's Gwen. ummm... https://sc01.alicdn.com/kf/HTB1GGuTRXXX ... XFXXXY.jpg

no you don't understand, I wanna joke along too... but I can't do it in this thread, Merlin and Choice were watching... I 'm trying to avoid being yell at by Merlin to answer questions again you know.

no you don't understand, I wanna joke along too... but I can't do it in this thread, Merlin and Choice were watching... I'm trying to avoid being yell at by Merlin to answer questions again you know.

Spiritr wrote:: no you don't understand, I wanna joke along too... but I can't do it in this thread, Merlin and Choice were watching... I'm trying to avoid being yell at by Merlin to answer questions again you know. Start with curry chicken!!! https://pics.me.me/wheres-that-gold-my- ... 678449.png

Spiritr wrote:: no you don't understand, I wanna joke along too... but I can't do it in this thread, Merlin and Choice were watching... I 'm trying to avoid being yell at by Merlin to answer questions again you know. Start with curry chicken!!! https://pics.me.me/wheres-that-gold-my- ... 678449.png

Spiritr wrote:: no you don't understand, I wanna joke along too... but I can't do it in this thread, Merlin and Choice were watching... I'm trying to avoid being yell at by Merlin to answer questions again you know. *sigh* =[ Yeah, I hear ya...and, Choice will chastise me for not contributing to the efforts of slicing though the never ending spiderwebs you guys are walking into.... https://youtu.be/dC8rppRPMbc

Spiritr wrote:: no you don't understand, I wanna joke along too... but I can't do it in this thread, Merlin and Choice were watching... I 'm trying to avoid being yell at by Merlin to answer questions again you know. *sigh* =[ Yeah, I hear ya...and, Choice will chastise me for not contributing to the efforts of slicing though the never ending spiderwebs you guys are walking into.... https://youtu.be/dC8rppRPMbc

****OFF TOPIC ALERT**** if Choice know you versing in his image thread... he'll flood this thread clean with gifs from Cartoon Network and Adult Swim...

Spiritr wrote:: ****OFF TOPIC ALERT**** if Choice know you versing in his image thread... he'll flood this thread clean with gifs from Cartoon Network and Adult Swim... Right, you are. Back on topic. "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar" - - Sigmund Freud I say the moons are just moons, added to enhance the artistry of the image. Discuss.

Spiritr wrote:: ****OFF TOPIC ALERT**** if Choice know you versing in his image thread... he'll flood this thread clean with gifs from Cartoon Network and Adult Swim... Right, you are. Back on topic. "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar" - - Sigmund Freud I say the moons are just moons, added to enhance the artistry of the image. Discuss.

MERLIN wrote:: Hey guys.....not to change the subject - but I think there may be a hidden image/s in the shadowing on the left side of James Dean's face....especially around eye/nose/chin area. Can you guys make anything out? Credit for images to Mariska..... https:// i .ebayimg.com/images/g/1ekAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg I agree with Merlin, there are strange shadows and shapes in there. I keep seeing a 'Is it a bird or is it a plane' white shape on Lionel Richie's cheek And that's a weird choice of shadow under James Dean's lip Maybe they're subtle hints, maybe they're not, but it can't hurt to check it out, who knows what people find !

MERLIN wrote:: Hey guys.....not to change the subject - but I think there may be a hidden image/s in the shadowing on the left side of James Dean's face....especially around eye/nose/chin area. Can you guys make anything out? Credit for images to Mariska..... https://i.ebayimg.com/images/g/1ekAAOSw ... -l1600.jpg I agree with Merlin, there are strange shadows and shapes in there. I keep seeing a 'Is it a bird or is it a plane' white shape on Lionel Richie's cheek And that's a weird choice of shadow under James Dean's lip Maybe they're subtle hints, maybe they're not, but it can't hurt to check it out, who knows what people find !

isabella duncan

Durian wrote:: Choice, I've had so much fun going back and forth with you tonight, I'm going to share two of the more obscure references from the walls of the Maritime Museum, beyond the five already identified. Ever wonder why the "JFK rock" has an eye? Or why the rocky outcrop on the left of the painting looks so different than the rest of the rocks? Bits and pieces of clues are all over the painting... the top is pretty close to an image in the painting but its not in the location you have posted and it acts as a double reference,this being the weaker of the two, but still valid.

Durian wrote:: Choice, I 've had so much fun going back and forth with you tonight, I 'm going to share two of the more obscure references from the walls of the Maritime Museum, beyond the five already identified. Ever wonder why the "JFK rock" has an eye? Or why the rocky outcrop on the left of the painting looks so different than the rest of the rocks? Bits and pieces of clues are all over the painting... the top is pretty close to an image in the painting but its not in the location you have posted and it acts as a double reference,this being the weaker of the two, but still valid.

Mister EZ wrote:: Right, you are. Back on topic. "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar" - - Sigmund Freud I say the moons are just moons, added to enhance the artistry of the image. Discuss. wrong.

Mister EZ wrote:: Right, you are. Back on topic. "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar" - - Sigmund Freud I say the moons are just moons, added to enhance the artistry of the image. Discuss. wrong.

the correct answer is : MoOoOoOoOoOoN

JoshCornell wrote:: wrong. right. If you zoom into the moon that Choice numbered as '10', you can clearly see Lionel Ritchie. The rest of the Commodores can be found in the other moons. That points you to Joliet which then directs you to Motown/The Motor City.

Mister EZ wrote:: right. If you zoom into the moon that Choice numbered as '10', you can clearly see Lionel Ritchie. The rest of the Commodores can be found in the other moons. That points you to Joliet which then directs you to Motown/The Motor City. But Choice also said the clock is not a compass but if you use 3 as your South and turn then 6 will be North because a compass always points to North. But because it can be used as a sundial, it's a clock. So, I believe what Choice really meant was, when you zoom into the image, things start getting big to your eyes, and eventually you''ll only see "10" moons within your sigh, or we could simply pretend we only see "10" moons, because that's probably what BP did....what you think?

also, if Choice said there are 10 moons, then there's only 10 moons. That's exactly what BP did perhaps, he only instructs JJP to draw 10 moons, but he accidently draw and painted 11.

Spiritr wrote:: no you don't understand, I wanna joke along too... but I can't do it in this thread, Merlin and Choice were watching... I'm trying to avoid being yell at by Merlin to answer questions again you know. Trained you well Padawan

This is why the air smells sweet.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooncake

Mister EZ wrote:: "Sometimes, a cigar is just a cigar" - - Sigmund Freud I thought Bill Clinton said that.

Choice wrote:: For example moon #3 points to an structure with dome on top. I ranked the moons by size. Any ideas about the landmark with a dome on top with nip under moon 3?

Spiritr wrote:: also, if Choice said there are 10 moons, then there's only 10 moons. That's exactly what BP did perhaps, he only instructs JJP to draw 10 moons, but he accidently draw and painted 11. What are you babbling about? 10 moons?

I'm sorry Choice, it's EZ's fault, I didn't pay much attention, because he mentioned you and rule number 1 in this thread was: Choice always right. So I quoted his words instead of yours. I'll be careful next time. Again, I like how moon #1 represent the woman's right breast. The moon has something to do with woman's menstrual cycle or something, right? If you don't point it out I'm pretty sure nobody can. contribution.....

Bad grasshopper... Get back to the temple.

@Fenix, if you're not getting any benefit from our brainstorming you can always remove yourself from the thread.

You "old timers" have been circle jerking eachother off for over a decade with nothing to show for except stains on your faces. Perhaps you should be open to new views and thoughts. So tired of you guys whining. Sooo unmanly!

I spent good part of my free time last weekend trying to figure the moons out and when I shared what I came up with I got nothing but sarcasm and ridicule. So I don't think I'll be wasting my time any longer with a bunch of contemptuous idiots.

Out of respect for Goldengate.

I think the best ideas I've heard for the "moons" is someone mentioned Apollo 11 and it's association with San Francisco. Durian came up with a great idea when he noticed that "Ghirardelli" has 11 letters and of course the sign lights up at night making it a good solve for the moons. My idea was a little simpler, the white globe lights all around Ghirardelli could represent the moons but I believe there are more than 11 in total. Notice how the light source in the Image cast a shadow at the bottom of the "white globes" just as it would during the daylight hours. I see this as BP tying Ghirardelli's 11 letters of the sign to the globe lights in Ghirardelli Square. Also interesting is how the number "11" is actually in the name Ghirarde"11"i.

Mooncakes Bro....It's all about the Mooncakes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mooncake

Choice wrote:: You "old timers" have been circle jerking eachother off for over a decade with nothing to show for except stains on your faces. Perhaps you should be open to new views and thoughts. So tired of you guys whining. Sooo unmanly! Not sure this is going to win you any points around here. I have a lot of new ideas as well, but I always try to present them respectfully. You have to understand that many people have their own ideas of where the casques might be, how the puzzles are constructed, and possibly have thought about the very thing you are proposing, but rejected it initially. While the forum has rapidly changed in the past several months, much to some "old timers" chagrin, the overall culture here is to be skeptical. Many, many ideas have been discussed and many empty theories and holes in ground later, it is natural to question where people are going with their thoughts.

He ain't that old!

Goldengate wrote:: How old are you? You sound like a petulant 14 year old... That's kinda mean, Goldengate...

There's a classic statistics problem with 11 white orbs. It's so famous it's literally the first thing that comes up when you google "11 white balls" In it, it posits that 7 red balls and 11 white balls are placed in an urn. Then it gets statistically complicated so I won't bother you with my fully-formed understanding of the problem. I wonder, is there an urn in GGP?

drunknerds wrote:: There's a classic statistics problem with 11 white orbs. It's so famous it's literally the first thing that comes up when you google "11 white balls" In it, it posits that 7 red balls and 11 white balls are placed in an urn. Then it gets statistically complicated so I won't bother you with my fully-formed understanding of the problem. I wonder, is there an urn in GGP? Great find! The Chegg study solutions right? But all 11 balls in the image are BLUE , and they all sized differently.

Spiritr wrote:: Great find! The Chegg study solutions right? But all 11 balls in the image are BLUE , and they all sized differently. Whoa, I think we may have solved a new clue: I just looked "blue balls" up in the dictionary, and there was a picture of The Secret

drunknerds wrote:: Whoa, I think we may have solved a new clue: I just looked "blue balls" up in the dictionary, and there was a picture of The Secret Really you looked up "blue balls" DUDE you must be the A STUD, to have to look up "blue balls" sorry couldn't couldn't help it!

Durian wrote:: I think the lady's mouth is in the shape of a fish—head to the left, fins above and below, tail fin to the right: Not sure I agree with that assessment. Zoomed in like that, it kinda looks like a handlebar mustache...or, a slug. (In my opinion.)

I still say that some of you are zooming too much and over complicating things. I personally do not believe this is how the puzzles work. The images gets you in the general area and then the verse walks you through to the casque location.

Durian wrote:: I get your position re: zooming in can over-complicate things. I'm just zooming in to make it more obvious. At book size and with a magnifying glass, you'd be able to see it no problem, be it a fish or EZ's slug. Either (or neither) way, some of the info around her mouth appears called out intentionally, like the drooping part of the lip on the left hand side. IMO, it calls for a closer look. And I see no reason why using a magnifying glass would be considered off limits by Preiss... I have to disagree that the the images are only intended to get you in the general area, and then the verses kick in to lead to the casque. I think pretty much each verse has something in the image to corroborate that you are following the verses properly. This was really apparent to me as I walked through my own solve in SF last week. Here is my argument: Trying to think like the puzzle creators, if I was making a puzzle with verses and an image, and the verses physically moved people through a puzzle in the real world, I believe I would leave clues in the image at each stop (verse) along the way. The clues would reinforce the verses and tell people they are on the right track. For instance in my solve, there is the "Gh" for Ghirardelli. Then you move to the street corner for the "high posts/Education and Justice..." verse, and the USGS symbols match your view of the three high points on Alcatraz and the peak of Angel Island. Then the image provides a cable car bell and the compass pointing north for the intersection of Hyde and North Point St., etc... Regardless of whether my solve is correct, this also appears to be how things work in the Cleveland and Chicago solves as well. The issue here may be that you are focusing on San Francisco alone. That may not be true, but it seems to be the puzzle you are working on. There is so much abstraction in Image 1 that it is easy to get a case of pareidolia and have the urge to find all sorts of details. As different as all of the images in the book are, I believe there is a common pattern that was applied. Some are easier than others, but the Author and Illustrator only had so much time to devote to this. I can guarantee that the collective amount of time people have spent trying to dissect The Secret greatly dwarfs the amount of time put into making it. I take it to heart when BP said he expected these to be solved quickly. Maybe not in year, but quickly. That to me says that we have all over complicated things. I also blame technology. The sheer volume of information and photo editing capabilities available now has corrupted and changed the way we would have approached these puzzles in 1982. I would even argue that if you are local to one of the sites, try solving by going to the library and using a magnifying glass and lots of walking around. I suspect that this would be more successful than scrubbing the internet for the most obscure connections that were either not common knowledge or readily accessible via a library or historical society. This does not mean that forums like this cannot be helpful, they are a tool just like anything else and have to be used properly. Back to my earlier point, please have a look at one of the more plain images and try to apply the same approach as you have for Image 1. You'll quickly see that it does not work. So I go back to what I said, use the image to get yourself in the area, heck most of the groundwork has already been done by your predecessors. All that is required is to add up the simple clues and see how the verse matches you up to the location. EDIT: I don't believe there is a one to one correlation between the Verse and Image, as in, there should be a visual confirmer for each clue in the verse. I think the associations are more elastic than that. Let's take Image 1 for example since we are in this thread: You have an Asian women with a dress which by all accounts shows us a loose map of GGP. To me this is a strong indication that we should look in San Francisco. Perhaps the casque is in GGP, but not necessarily. We also have other motifs in the image that confirm we should be in SF, but not necessarily the exact location. There are cable cars all over the place in SF. There are stone doors all over the place in SF. There are lots of details like arches or roses that could be anywhere. Some people believe there is one solid visual confirmer for the dig spot. I tend to agree, like the fence in Chicago, etc. But to dig deep in the Image to shoehorn things into a solve that doesn't just flow is the wrong approach in my opinion. Also, some things in the images are just throw aways or filler material, and do not play into the solution at all, and exist for artistic purposes.

Durian, part of the issue is that most, if not all of the Images are modeled after famous works of art, so in order to replicate the overall feeling of the original work, JJP had to add a lot, or in some cases very little detail.

Durian wrote:: When I was in SF last week, the Maritime Museum's bottom floor was closed, so I didn't get the chance to check out what is on display there. I believe however that it features an antique Mark V diving suit. These suits have large helmets with round protruding plates. Check one out here: https://www.photostocksource.com/images/industrial-nautical-marine-maritime/160391055-mark-v-deep-sea-diving-suit-lg.jpg It looks to me that JJP took the straight vertical lines featured in da Vinci's Madonna of the Rocks and added a round plate to each of the two dome features in the painting, hinting at a dive helmet. Here's the form from the da Vinci painting: And here are the round protrusions in the image: Less subtle is the object to the left of the two domes, which looks like it could easily be the glove of a Mark V diving suit, with the fingers clearly separated from the thumb. This image is from the Maritime Museum. Check out especially the shadow of the right hand, which echoes the shadow of the object in JJP's painting: I'm a doubter that people are required to go inside of places that charge admission to solve these puzzles, although I'm not completely against it. Do they charge? Did they charge to get in in 1982?

Well, would you look at that! We seem to have a functional forum again! Durian, I like a lot of the work you've done. I think the personal goal is to prove to yourself whether your theories work or not. I have had many ideas that I cross checked from many different angles and a lot dissolved, but some stuck. I definitely think a great approach is to develop a solid working theory and then put it aside, maybe even look at some of the other puzzles, especially read some of the other Image and Verse threads. Kind of like scouting the other teams to see the talent and trick plays. Then try with fresh eyes, maybe even a new approach. If you keep coming back to the same answer, then you are probably getting close. Keep up the good fight!

Durian wrote:: A final thought on the exact match vs. "caricature and essence" in the SF painting... Many, many people think the woman's dress represents Golden Gate Park. Fine, no problem. But I'd argue that what people see as a correlation to GGP is absolutely not an exact match. Aside from being roughly a rectangle, they don't really match at all, IMO. I'd argue that people who see the flare in the dress as proof we're looking at Golden Gate Park are doing exactly what I'm doing when I look at things in the painting that in their essence correlate to images around Aquatic Park. They are viewing the flare and the winding dragon (winding roads of the park) as representing the essence of the park. I am absolutely OK with this, but to be clear, we're looking at a possible match based on the essence of something, not based upon identifying an exact match. Using the tiles in the dragon to represent city blocks is similar. It's a fine and quite possibly correct metaphor, but absolutely not an exact match to reality. It seems to me metaphor and caricature are absolutely part of these puzzles, and IMO we should be open to them, especially given all the years that have passed with what seems to me to be a stunning scarcity of exact image matches being found. I agree. Some things are representative. I will throw this at you though, there are almost perfect map overlays in the Images. GGP is not one of them.

gManTexas wrote:: I agree. Some things are representative. I will throw this at you though, there are almost perfect map overlays in the Images. GGP is not one of them. Exactly, it's just a signature or icon for San Francisco. Not the buried site. Just like what we see in Image 4 and 5, these objects were city identifiers take a look at the maps below,from the city identifier to the casques buried site.

Just a thought, in 1981 if you started talking to me about the "Dragon", I would have assumed you were talking about Bruce Lee. As in "Enter the Dragon" and "The Way of the Dragon". Bruce Lee was born in San Francisco in the year of the Dragon. There is a "Bruce Lee" tour of SF from one of the local tour companies. That said, Bruce didn't spend much time in SF. He spent most of his life in Seattle and is buried in Seattle next to his son, Brandon Lee. Did you know Seattle used to be called "The City of Clocks" because they had a large number of street clocks.

rexx wrote:: Just a thought, in 1981 if you started talking to me about the "Dragon", I would have assumed you were talking about Bruce Lee. As in "Enter the Dragon" and "The Way of the Dragon". Bruce Lee was born in San Francisco in the year of the Dragon. There is a "Bruce Lee" tour of SF from one of the local tour companies. That said, Bruce didn't spend much time in SF. He spent most of his life in Seattle and is buried in Seattle next to his son, Brandon Lee. . Bruce Lee is much more associated with Oakland than SF.

Many of these Images have two numbers that give us latitude and longitude. As I have studied these I realized that some of the second sets of numbers that people say are the other latitude and longitude coordinates, actually have two meanings. Thanks to Macfos for getting me to see these possibilities months ago. For example in San Francisco the 122 and the 123, ....the 123 is not only the next longitude coordinate in line but also a zip code clue for Fort Mason 94123 which is the Western border for the Aquatic Park. Also when it comes to the number 38 in our Russian girl's hair, that's the next latitude number in line for San Francisco but it is also important to another border of the Aquatic Park. The South End Rowing Club used to be located on the South End of San Francisco until the boathouse was moved to where it sits today on Jefferson Street in 1938.

Great point Durian. Negative space in these puzzles give incredible clues if you take the time to see them. Shadows or empty space can give us great information. I mean, just look at the empty space in n the flower of Image 9, that's a perfect example.

MrBackstop wrote:: Many of these Images have two numbers that give us latitude and longitude. As I have studied these I realized that some of the second sets of numbers that people say are the other latitude and longitude coordinates, actually have two meanings. Thanks to Macfos for getting me to see these possibilities months ago. Unknown: For example in San Francisco the 122 and the 123, ....the 123 is not only the next longitude coordinate in line but also a zip code clue for Fort Mason 94123 which is the Western border for the Aquatic Park. Unknown: Also when it comes to the number 38 in our Russian girl's hair, that's the next latitude number in line for San Francisco but it is also important to another border of the Aquatic Park. The South End Rowing Club used to be located on the South End of San Francisco until the boathouse was moved to where it sits today on Jefferson Street in 1938. Beside those numbers, many different objects and words in the book have multiple meanings as well. If that's the case, why excludes the 94122 which is the Inner Sunset district? How you know she's Russian? What about 37, any historic events in 1937 that can apply in favor to your solutions?

My solution for the numbers are simple 122 and 123 are both Roman numerals , parallel and vertical beneath the mirrored letter G and h . this set of numbers, were the longitudes(Greenwich).

I agree, many objects and numbers have multiple meanings that's one of the cool things about these puzzles. No need for me to include 94122, it doesn't border the Aquatic Park. Just like for anyone that believes in the GGP location there would be no reason to use 94123. I refer to her as Russian because she looks just like a Russian lady whose son I train. And mainly because she is dressed in a bath robe that she would wear in the Bath house (Maritime Museum) which is part of the Aquatic Park next to Russian Hill. Of course the 37 has multiple meanings with latitude and what I believe most of the San Francisco searchers realize, that 1937 was when the Golden Gate Bridge opened

Spiritr wrote:: How you know she's Russian?? From verse 7 thread, this also explains where that opinion comes from, right or wrong: http://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=142209#p142209

From the Litany of the Jewels in the book: "From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl: Chaste, perfect as the silver moon." If you google Cathay, you will see it means "China." Image 1 is the one relating to China, so in my opinion, she's not Russian. The Russian lady is in Image 12.

Egbert wrote:: From the Litany of the Jewels in the book: "From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl: Chaste, perfect as the silver moon." If you google Cathay, you will see it means "China." Image 1 is the one relating to China, so in my opinion, she's not Russian. The Russian lady is in Image 12. Yup...that's my opinion too, because of the LoJ and the pearl in the image....the topaz in image 12 points it towards the Russian immigration theme.

Guys, I understand that the cathy means China and is the dragon's pearl. But that doesn't mean the woman can't be Russian. I attribute this to the area of the Aquatic Park being at the base of Russian Hill. If you believe she is Chinese that's fine too, but doesn't change my interpretation of the clues. The Pearl is clearly a reference to China and a great deal of Chinese immigrants came here from Angel Island thru Pier 43 (stone wall's door) and into San Francisco. So whether she's Russian, Chinese, Korean,.....doesn't seem to really matter.

MrBackstop wrote:: Guys, I understand that the cathy means China and is the dragon's pearl. But that doesn't mean the woman can't be Russian. I attribute this to the area of the Aquatic Park being at the base of Russian Hill. If you believe she is Chinese that's fine too, but doesn't change my interpretation of the clues. The Pearl is clearly a reference to China and a great deal of Chinese immigrants came here from Angel Island thru Pier 43 (stone wall's door) and into San Francisco. So whether she's Russian, Chinese, Korean,.....doesn't seem to really matter. Well, restating something that has been the 'usual', conventional interpretation (up to now), but that doesn't match your interpretations, isn't intended to be a personal attack....I hope that's not the way you took it. You come up with your own ideas and follow them no matter what anybody else says....which is why I've haven't really stepped in previously to say "I think you're wrong" or "I disagree". You wouldn't listen, no matter the circumstances. And, that's okay....you're not the only guy who does that. So, by all means, follow your own interpretations. Please, don't get upset when somebody disagrees.

Durian, I'm not in the camp that believes that things in the puzzles have (or, we're intended to have) multiple meanings. But, I believe that Mr. Backstop falls in that group of searchers....so, that absolutely fits with what he's saying and his interpretations. It allows him to reaffirm his assertion that the blue eyes indicate that she's Russian, even though the bulk of the image is inherently following a Chinese or Asian motif.

Oh Mr EZ you completely misread me. I'm not upset at all my man. I'm just explaining a point I had. If it came off as otherwise I apologize. I used to be upset or even offended when people would disagree or try to destroy my point of view. That's not the case at all anymore. I understand that some people believe there are multiple meanings for clues and some do not. I also understand that some people think one number means one thing while I believe there is a lot of flexibility in a number meaning several things. There are also some who believe the blue highlights are nothing more than artistic elements and, that the location of the jewel the in the Image is not a clue. I happen to see the opposite. And to me, this is an advantage to those that close their minds to this possibility. Until a casque is dug up again that doesn't matter. So whatever brainstorming you want to do I'm ready. I don't take things personally and you're not going to offend me. I worked with Josh, I can work with anybody.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Bruce Lee is much more associated with Oakland than SF. Speaking of Oakland, has anyone studied the downtown Oakland/Lake Merritt area? Most of the SF Chinese community migrated to Oakland Chinatown after the 1906 earthquake. There is also a Jackson Street and a few other connections. Joe Shoong emigrated to the United States from Zhongshan, Guangdong, China when he was 18 or 19 years old (1897 or 1898) and was a rags to riches story. He was a Chinese-American businessman and philanthropist who founded the National Dollar Stores and supported many Chinese organizations. Covering Hawaii and seven western states, by 1959 there were fifty-four stores worth $12 million, with 700 employees. He was one of the first Chinese-American millionaires and at one time, according to Time Magazine, was the "richest, best-known Chinese business man in the U.S." He had other business interests and many philanthropic projects for the Chinese community. (summarized from Wikipedia) I have a fun "solve", but admittedly many of the connections did not exist in 1982. Since the Japanese version of the book referred to "fairy's" treasure, there is one place that would be an obvious connection ( of which the Shoong Foundation has been a major supporter over the years). I imagined that BP could have designed Image 1/Verse 7 with the younger audience in mind. Note that a Lunar New Year celebration is held here every year. All of the images below were found on Yelp, Google Images and social media. Enjoy! At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Connection #1: "Sing a Song of Sixpence" ("Four and twenty blackbirds, baked in a pie. ...The queen was in the parlour, Eating bread and honey...") Connection #2: Sugar Plum Tree Not far away High posts are three There are/were three sets with high wooden posts, and perhaps they were all visible from one vantage point. Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Connection #1: Hidden speakers in flowers and trees Connection #2: Macaws Near ace is high Based on an old park map, the card maze was in close proximity to the Crusoe set. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention No strong connections yet, but a park map from the late 70's/early 80's might reveal something. The park entrance is on the north end, so "running north" would lead you out of the park. Giant pole Giant step Note the mirrored "D"-shaped planters There are several image resemblances (and many dragons), but no exact matches. One picture I wasn't able to find was the ticket window area, which is lined with small mosaic tiles. Not sure if there is/was any images in the tile design.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Bruce Lee is much more associated with Oakland than SF. Speaking of Oakland, has anyone studied the downtown Oakland/Lake Merritt area? Most of the SF Chinese community migrated to Oakland Chinatown after the 1906 earthquake. There is also a Jackson Street and a few other connections. Joe Shoong emigrated to the United States from Zhongshan, Guangdong, China when he was 18 or 19 years old (1897 or 1898) and was a rags to riches story. He was a Chinese-American businessman and philanthropist who founded the National Dollar Stores and supported many Chinese organizations. Covering Hawaii and seven western states, by 1959 there were fifty-four stores worth $12 million, with 700 employees. He was one of the first Chinese-American millionaires and at one time, according to Time Magazine, was the "richest, best-known Chinese business man in the U.S." He had other business interests and many philanthropic projects for the Chinese community. (summarized from Wikipedia) I have a fun "solve", but admittedly many of the connections did not exist in 1982. Since the Japanese version of the book referred to "fairy's" treasure, there is one place that would be an obvious connection (of which the Shoong Foundation has been a major supporter over the years). I imagined that BP could have designed Image 1/Verse 7 with the younger audience in mind. Note that a Lunar New Year celebration is held here every year. All of the images below were found on Yelp, Google Images and social media. Enjoy! At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Connection #1: "Sing a Song of Sixpence" ("Four and twenty blackbirds, baked in a pie. ...The queen was in the parlour, Eating bread and honey...") Connection #2: Sugar Plum Tree Not far away High posts are three There are/were three sets with high wooden posts, and perhaps they were all visible from one vantage point. Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Connection #1: Hidden speakers in flowers and trees Connection #2: Macaws Near ace is high Based on an old park map, the card maze was in close proximity to the Crusoe set. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention No strong connections yet, but a park map from the late 70's/early 80's might reveal something. The park entrance is on the north end, so "running north" would lead you out of the park. Giant pole Giant step Note the mirrored "D"-shaped planters There are several image resemblances (and many dragons), but no exact matches. One picture I wasn't able to find was the ticket window area, which is lined with small mosaic tiles. Not sure if there is/was any images in the tile design.

Getting down to basics. Here are a few clues that might set you on the right path: • I start from Dragon’s Gate in Chinatown since it’s the simplest interpretation of “At stone wall's door” • Just south of the gate is Hyatt Union Square where The Fountain is located; perhaps the inspiration for the Lombard street (city identifier)/dragon painting. • “High posts are three” takes me down to Post Street, play on word posts. There at Union Square Victory stands high atop of a globe holding a trident in her left hand. Looking at the painting, there’s a trident looking thing touching her left hand. Trident, three teeth (number of teeth showing in dragon’s mouth), three posts up high. Dragons (sea serpents) and spirals all over the base of the Victory (sweet smell of success). • Powel street cable car runs by the square; Powell turn-table is near by. • Next to the Union Square is Morris building with spiral interior (Xanadu gallery), the only Frank Lloyd Wright building in SF. The building has a unique brick arched entrance. Not related, Frank Morris was a prisoner escapee from Alcatraz. That may explain bars on the gate in the painting. https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/sf072.asp • Focusing on the woman’s left hand you’ll find an eye formed by her lower 3 fingers similar to all Seeing Eye, eye of providence, similar to back of a one dollar bill on top of a pyramid. She’s pointing to a specific street block. If you follow that direction from the painting, 2 X 4 blocks away from the Dragon’s Gate you get to Transamerica Pyramid, Ace is high. • The three way points, Union Square, the Dragon’s Gate and Transamerica line up. Use a mason’s tool, a compass to draw a circle with the Transamerica being the center and the Dewey Monument being the pencil and you get your option of dig sites: Pioneer park (Coit), Washington Square (Twain’s attention being the twin towers and president Washington on dollar bill) or Ina Coolbrith park

Getting down to basics. Here are a few clues that might set you on the right path: • I start from Dragon’s Gate in Chinatown since it’s the simplest interpretation of “At stone wall's door” • Just south of the gate is Hyatt Union Square where The Fountain is located; perhaps the inspiration for the Lombard street (city identifier)/dragon painting. • “High posts are three” takes me down to Post Street, play on word posts. There at Union Square Victory stands high atop of a globe holding a trident in her left hand. Looking at the painting, there’s a trident looking thing touching her left hand. Trident, three teeth (number of teeth showing in dragon’s mouth), three posts up high. Dragons (sea serpents) and spirals all over the base of the Victory (sweet smell of success). • Powel street cable car runs by the square; Powell turn-table is near by. • Next to the Union Square is Morris building with spiral interior (Xanadu gallery), the only Frank Lloyd Wright building in SF. The building has a unique brick arched entrance. Not related, Frank Morris was a prisoner escapee from Alcatraz. That may explain bars on the gate in the painting. https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/sf072.asp • Focusing on the woman’s left hand you’ll find an eye formed by her lower 3 fingers similar to all Seeing Eye, eye of providence, similar to back of a one dollar bill on top of a pyramid. She’s pointing to a specific street block. If you follow that direction from the painting, 2 X 4 blocks away from the Dragon’s Gate you get to Transamerica Pyramid, Ace is high. • The three way points, Union Square, the Dragon’s Gate and Transamerica line up. Use a mason’s tool, a compass to draw a circle with the Transamerica being the center and the Dewey Monument being the pencil and you get your option of dig sites: Pioneer park (Coit), Washington Square (Twain’s attention being the twin towers and president Washington on dollar bill) or Ina Coolbrith park

Choice wrote:: Getting down to basics. Here are a few clues that might set you on the right path: • I start from Dragon’s Gate in Chinatown since it’s the simplest interpretation of “At stone wall's door” • Just south of the gate is Hyatt Union Square where The Fountain is located; perhaps the inspiration for the Lombard street (city identifier)/dragon painting. • “High posts are three” takes me down to Post Street, play on word posts. There at Union Square Victory stands high atop of a globe holding a trident in her left hand. Looking at the painting, there’s a trident looking thing touching her left hand. Trident, three teeth (number of teeth showing in dragon’s mouth), three posts up high. Dragons (sea serpents) and spirals all over the base of the Victory (sweet smell of success). • Powel street cable car runs by the square; Powell turn-table is near by. • Next to the Union Square is Morris building with spiral interior (Xanadu gallery), the only Frank Lloyd Wright building in SF. The building has a unique brick arched entrance. Not related, Frank Morris was a prisoner escapee from Alcatraz. That may explain bars on the gate in the painting. https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/sf072.asp • Focusing on the woman’s left hand you’ll find an eye formed by her lower 3 fingers similar to all Seeing Eye, eye of providence, similar to back of a one dollar bill on top of a pyramid. She’s pointing to a specific street block. If you follow that direction from the painting, 2 X 4 blocks away from the Dragon’s Gate you get to Transamerica Pyramid, Ace is high. • The three way points, Union Square, the Dragon’s Gate and Transamerica line up. Use a mason’s tool, a compass to draw a circle with the Transamerica being the center and the Dewey Monument being the pencil and you get your option of dig sites: Pioneer park (Coit), Washington Square (Twain’s attention being the twin towers and president Washington on dollar bill) or Ina Coolbrith park I like a lot of this, but how can we be left with three choices? Is that a nod to your userid, lol?

Choice wrote:: Getting down to basics. Here are a few clues that might set you on the right path: • I start from Dragon’s Gate in Chinatown since it’s the simplest interpretation of “At stone wall's door” • Just south of the gate is Hyatt Union Square where The Fountain is located; perhaps the inspiration for the Lombard street (city identifier)/dragon painting. • “High posts are three” takes me down to Post Street, play on word posts. There at Union Square Victory stands high atop of a globe holding a trident in her left hand. Looking at the painting, there’s a trident looking thing touching her left hand. Trident, three teeth (number of teeth showing in dragon’s mouth), three posts up high. Dragons (sea serpents) and spirals all over the base of the Victory (sweet smell of success). • Powel street cable car runs by the square; Powell turn-table is near by. • Next to the Union Square is Morris building with spiral interior (Xanadu gallery), the only Frank Lloyd Wright building in SF. The building has a unique brick arched entrance. Not related, Frank Morris was a prisoner escapee from Alcatraz. That may explain bars on the gate in the painting. https://noehill.com/sf/landmarks/sf072.asp • Focusing on the woman’s left hand you’ll find an eye formed by her lower 3 fingers similar to all Seeing Eye, eye of providence, similar to back of a one dollar bill on top of a pyramid. She’s pointing to a specific street block. If you follow that direction from the painting, 2 X 4 blocks away from the Dragon’s Gate you get to Transamerica Pyramid, Ace is high. • The three way points, Union Square, the Dragon’s Gate and Transamerica line up. Use a mason’s tool, a compass to draw a circle with the Transamerica being the center and the Dewey Monument being the pencil and you get your option of dig sites: Pioneer park (Coit), Washington Square (Twain’s attention being the twin towers and president Washington on dollar bill) or Ina Coolbrith park I like a lot of this, but how can we be left with three choices? Is that a nod to your userid, lol?

Wow, I really like all of the dialogue happening right now. I am trying to write down a potential solve and it is so difficult. I appreciate all those who have work at this hunt. I guess I would start by saying I would enter Golden Gate Park at the Senior Center and head to John F. Kennedy Drive. I didn't see the Crossover Drive as a clue. I saw the divided JFK Drive as part of the image. I would go toward the Chain of Lakes Drive. I believe the North Lake shape is revealed in Image 1. This is about as far as I have gone on my quest. I am having a great time but still have a lot of work to do. I have been to Golden Gate Park four times in the last month. I have seen evidence of digs from others. How cool is that? I tried to add an attachment of a photo I took of the Senior Center Dragon/Griffin on the front of the building but it wouldn't upload. I think it is on this site somewhere. I will be going to San Francisco tomorrow to do some research. I did find some pretty good photos online and started a log of what I have found. I know there has been a lot of changes to Golden Gate Park over the years. I just have to find out if a flag poll was around in '79 through the time Preiss may have been in the Park. No, not the one that was at the Senior Center.

Wow, I really like all of the dialogue happening right now. I am trying to write down a potential solve and it is so difficult. I appreciate all those who have work at this hunt. I guess I would start by saying I would enter Golden Gate Park at the Senior Center and head to John F. Kennedy Drive. I didn't see the Crossover Drive as a clue. I saw the divided JFK Drive as part of the image. I would go toward the Chain of Lakes Drive. I believe the North Lake shape is revealed in Image 1. This is about as far as I have gone on my quest. I am having a great time but still have a lot of work to do. I have been to Golden Gate Park four times in the last month. I have seen evidence of digs from others. How cool is that? I tried to add an attachment of a photo I took of the Senior Center Dragon/Griffin on the front of the building but it wouldn't upload. I think it is on this site somewhere. I will be going to San Francisco tomorrow to do some research. I did find some pretty good photos online and started a log of what I have found. I know there has been a lot of changes to Golden Gate Park over the years. I just have to find out if a flag poll was around in '79 through the time Preiss may have been in the Park. No, not the one that was at the Senior Center.

prospector wrote:: Wow, I really like all of the dialogue happening right now. I am trying to write down a potential solve and it is so difficult. I appreciate all those who have work at this hunt. I guess I would start by saying I would enter Golden Gate Park at the Senior Center and head to John F. Kennedy Drive. I didn't see the Crossover Drive as a clue. I saw the divided JFK Drive as part of the image. I would go toward the Chain of Lakes Drive. I believe the North Lake shape is revealed in Image 1. This is about as far as I have gone on my quest. I am having a great time but still have a lot of work to do. I have been to Golden Gate Park four times in the last month. I have seen evidence of digs from others. How cool is that? I tried to add an attachment of a photo I took of the Senior Center Dragon/Griffin on the front of the building but it wouldn't upload. I think it is on this site somewhere. I will be going to San Francisco tomorrow to do some research. I did find some pretty good photos online and started a log of what I have found. I know there has been a lot of changes to Golden Gate Park over the years. I just have to find out if a flag poll was around in '79 through the time Preiss may have been in the Park. No, not the one that was at the Senior Center. A lot of the work that you are doing has been posted. You can see the photos and analysis if you go back in the thread or use the function.

prospector wrote:: Wow, I really like all of the dialogue happening right now. I am trying to write down a potential solve and it is so difficult. I appreciate all those who have work at this hunt. I guess I would start by saying I would enter Golden Gate Park at the Senior Center and head to John F. Kennedy Drive. I didn't see the Crossover Drive as a clue. I saw the divided JFK Drive as part of the image. I would go toward the Chain of Lakes Drive. I believe the North Lake shape is revealed in Image 1. This is about as far as I have gone on my quest. I am having a great time but still have a lot of work to do. I have been to Golden Gate Park four times in the last month. I have seen evidence of digs from others. How cool is that? I tried to add an attachment of a photo I took of the Senior Center Dragon/Griffin on the front of the building but it wouldn't upload. I think it is on this site somewhere. I will be going to San Francisco tomorrow to do some research. I did find some pretty good photos online and started a log of what I have found. I know there has been a lot of changes to Golden Gate Park over the years. I just have to find out if a flag poll was around in '79 through the time Preiss may have been in the Park. No, not the one that was at the Senior Center. A lot of the work that you are doing has been posted. You can see the photos and analysis if you go back in the thread or use the function.

I believe word play is at work here.... Women/Dragon is the fairy for image 1, with an arched arm and fingers pointing to 43 1/2 (which the Ferry Arch 43 is next too) This is where the tour boats docked, (Alcatraz, bay tours) Pointing out 43 1/2 pier, which is the only half pier on the Warf. This positions lines you up with Education and Justice for all to see. chemical symbol aluminum

I believe word play is at work here.... Women/Dragon is the fairy for image 1, with an arched arm and fingers pointing to 43 1/2 (which the Ferry Arch 43 is next too) This is where the tour boats docked, (Alcatraz, bay tours) Pointing out 43 1/2 pier, which is the only half pier on the Warf. This positions lines you up with Education and Justice for all to see. chemical symbol aluminum

Goldengate wrote:: Personally, I 'm still leaning toward the fact that one sleeve has 18 squares and the other has 20 -- and the sleeves themselves are situated right between 18th and 20th Aves at the Western edge of Stow Lake... she's pointing at her sleeves, saying "hey, check out these "blocks." ... she's not pointing at any one block, she's literally pointing at her sleeves to draw our attention to them. Goldengate wrote:: So many different theories about the meaning behind the blocks on her sleeves -- we almost need a sub thread to keep track of them all. I do like simplicity and straight-forward readings. I endorse this. I hope not!

Goldengate wrote:: Personally, I'm still leaning toward the fact that one sleeve has 18 squares and the other has 20 -- and the sleeves themselves are situated right between 18th and 20th Aves at the Western edge of Stow Lake... she's pointing at her sleeves, saying "hey, check out these "blocks." ... she's not pointing at any one block, she's literally pointing at her sleeves to draw our attention to them. Goldengate wrote:: So many different theories about the meaning behind the blocks on her sleeves -- we almost need a sub thread to keep track of them all. I do like simplicity and straight-forward readings. I endorse this. I hope not!

Goldengate wrote:: So many different theories about the meaning behind the blocks on her sleeves -- we almost need a sub thread to keep track of them all. Personally, I 'm still leaning toward the fact that one sleeve has 18 squares and the other has 20 -- and the sleeves themselves are situated right between 18th and 20th Aves at the Western edge of Stow Lake -- maybe it's just that simple... that she's pointing at her sleeves, saying "hey, check out these "blocks." There are so many theories as to which blocks her fingers are actually pointing to: three or four or half way between one and another, etc... maybe that's on purpose in a way... she's not pointing at any one block, she's literally pointing at her sleeves to draw our attention to them. It seems (to me) if we were supposed to look at the individual block that she may or may not be pointing at, JJP would have painted the exact same number of squares on each sleeve so we'd know exactly how many up, down etc. Or he'd have her pointing exactly to a block so there was no doubt. That's just me speculating, but kind of interesting that the blocks are so easy to count and more defined in a way than much the rest of the image. They seem to be calling out for attention, as if they were solid "in our face" clues. GG, I totally get your view about the two sleeves, 18 and 20 blocks, if those numbers are what we need to decipher, then we would not need her fingers pointing to a specific block or blocks or lines. IMO this is one's perspective on a point in the image tied to an physical location and object, which sets up the next line in the verse, Education and Justice. I guess it all depends on how your looking at the clues and what the end game is? The one thing that I keep going back to is that the verse and image are very specific too areas or physical objects.

Goldengate wrote:: So many different theories about the meaning behind the blocks on her sleeves -- we almost need a sub thread to keep track of them all. Personally, I'm still leaning toward the fact that one sleeve has 18 squares and the other has 20 -- and the sleeves themselves are situated right between 18th and 20th Aves at the Western edge of Stow Lake -- maybe it's just that simple... that she's pointing at her sleeves, saying "hey, check out these "blocks." There are so many theories as to which blocks her fingers are actually pointing to: three or four or half way between one and another, etc... maybe that's on purpose in a way... she's not pointing at any one block, she's literally pointing at her sleeves to draw our attention to them. It seems (to me) if we were supposed to look at the individual block that she may or may not be pointing at, JJP would have painted the exact same number of squares on each sleeve so we'd know exactly how many up, down etc. Or he'd have her pointing exactly to a block so there was no doubt. That's just me speculating, but kind of interesting that the blocks are so easy to count and more defined in a way than much the rest of the image. They seem to be calling out for attention, as if they were solid "in our face" clues. GG, I totally get your view about the two sleeves, 18 and 20 blocks, if those numbers are what we need to decipher, then we would not need her fingers pointing to a specific block or blocks or lines. IMO this is one's perspective on a point in the image tied to an physical location and object, which sets up the next line in the verse, Education and Justice. I guess it all depends on how your looking at the clues and what the end game is? The one thing that I keep going back to is that the verse and image are very specific too areas or physical objects.

My thought is that the blocks will only become clear, if ever, once the casque is located. Then someone can say, ahhhh, THAT"S what he meant. It really is a dumb clue to put in the middle of a city with blocks everywhere.

My thought is that the blocks will only become clear, if ever, once the casque is located. Then someone can say, ahhhh, THAT"S what he meant. It really is a dumb clue to put in the middle of a city with blocks everywhere.

Another interpretation of the left sleeve blocks: She's pointing to the seventh set of blocks from bottom. The starting point being Dragon's Gate. Back of her hand reads 7 Roman numeral from her POV. Andrew Jackson, 7th president. https://tinyurl.com/yar9bjzt

Another interpretation of the left sleeve blocks: She's pointing to the seventh set of blocks from bottom. The starting point being Dragon's Gate. Back of her hand reads 7 Roman numeral from her POV. Andrew Jackson, 7th president. https://tinyurl.com/yar9bjzt

Yes Gman is correct in his assessment that only when a casque is pulled out of the ground, then the theory becomes a solve, until that happens it's good to see ideas and theory's being discussed. I would like to see more connections to the clues, like GG posted, how does this clue lead into the next clue with the verse walking you to each destination, with image. KEEP up the good work!!!

Yes Gman is correct in his assessment that only when a casque is pulled out of the ground, then the theory becomes a solve, until that happens it's good to see ideas and theory's being discussed. I would like to see more connections to the clues, like GG posted, how does this clue lead into the next clue with the verse walking you to each destination, with image. KEEP up the good work!!!

Goonie68 wrote:: Yes Gman is correct in his assessment that only when a casque is pulled out of the ground, then the theory becomes a solve, until that happens it's good to see ideas and theory's being discussed. I would like to see more connections to the clues, like GG posted, how does this clue lead into the next clue with the verse walking you to each destination, with image. KEEP up the good work!!! I can see this, but to me his statement means there are just so many ways to interpret a finger pointing to the middle of two blocks and... another finger pointing to the middle of two blocks... that there is no way to determine which of the million ways to interpret this is correct, until we know where it is. If you lay a map of GGP over the dress, her right hand is pointing exactly at the senior center. My theory, equally remotely likely because I could pick like 20 GGP places and figure out a plausible relationship between that place and her hands in relation to a random set of squares. Dude had a degree in communications. Understanding his puzzle communications shouldn't be so hard, wtf happened?

Goonie68 wrote:: Yes Gman is correct in his assessment that only when a casque is pulled out of the ground, then the theory becomes a solve, until that happens it's good to see ideas and theory's being discussed. I would like to see more connections to the clues, like GG posted, how does this clue lead into the next clue with the verse walking you to each destination, with image. KEEP up the good work!!! I can see this, but to me his statement means there are just so many ways to interpret a finger pointing to the middle of two blocks and... another finger pointing to the middle of two blocks... that there is no way to determine which of the million ways to interpret this is correct, until we know where it is. If you lay a map of GGP over the dress, her right hand is pointing exactly at the senior center. My theory, equally remotely likely because I could pick like 20 GGP places and figure out a plausible relationship between that place and her hands in relation to a random set of squares. Dude had a degree in communications. Understanding his puzzle communications shouldn't be so hard, wtf happened?

My two cents is that the puzzles are constructed so we don't have to solve every single clue to find the casque. 8 out of 10 ain't bad.

My two cents is that the puzzles are constructed so we don't have to solve every single clue to find the casque. 8 out of 10 ain't bad.

Another way of looking at the fingers pointing is to bring the two spots pointed together. Again this brings me to Columbus tower. Simplest way to interpret "Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention" • Running north, but 1st across: Describing a road Running diagonally • In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention: Giving you the name of the road • In jewel's direction: NYC, east • Is an object Of Twain's attention: Twain’s attention is often considered as Twain’s interest. That makes it too vague and unsolvable. I believe Twain’s attention is two separate items. Twain being uppercase is a name and “‘s” indicates something that belongs to Twain (possessive). Simplest thing I can come up with that belongs to Twain is “Mark”. So Twain’s attention becomes mark twain attention. Attention=standing straight, mark twain= two fathoms (12 feet). To east is statue of Columbus standing 12 feet tall. • Put it all together and you get “Running diagonally is Columbus” We need to go up Columbus Ave.

Another way of looking at the fingers pointing is to bring the two spots pointed together. Again this brings me to Columbus tower. Simplest way to interpret "Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention" • Running north, but 1st across: Describing a road Running diagonally • In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention: Giving you the name of the road • In jewel's direction: NYC, east • Is an object Of Twain's attention: Twain’s attention is often considered as Twain’s interest. That makes it too vague and unsolvable. I believe Twain’s attention is two separate items. Twain being uppercase is a name and “‘s” indicates something that belongs to Twain (possessive). Simplest thing I can come up with that belongs to Twain is “Mark”. So Twain’s attention becomes mark twain attention. Attention=standing straight, mark twain= two fathoms (12 feet). To east is statue of Columbus standing 12 feet tall. • Put it all together and you get “Running diagonally is Columbus” We need to go up Columbus Ave.

Taking a look at what we know now, via image and verse and applying it to other puzzles. Let's talk about Chicago for a minute....What we see in the image should represent something in the area the verse brings you too. Take the statute in the Chicago image, it has a set of wings attached to it, the wings can be seen as brushes, brushes are connected to paintings (art) the statue is within the Art institute across the street from the casque location. The word brush is in the image and the verse and tying it to a location. Now let's take the SF image, The word Justices can represent Jail, in the image we have a window with bars, this could be a clue to Jail, which can be connected to Alcatraz. iron man 1 sex scene It seems that some of the images or objects in the image have a couple of degrees of meaning, so being straight forward is not necessary true in the sense you have to use a connection to image and verse in some cases. Brush = art = Art Institute Justices = Jail = Alcatraz So fingers pointing to.....? 43 1/2 could be a nod to "for all to see" tour boats left from this dock ( seeing all of the bay) , fingers representing a number, which represents a place and the line "for all to see" Now this is just an opinion and for what it's worth, who knows LOL?????

Taking a look at what we know now, via image and verse and applying it to other puzzles. Let's talk about Chicago for a minute....What we see in the image should represent something in the area the verse brings you too. Take the statute in the Chicago image, it has a set of wings attached to it, the wings can be seen as brushes, brushes are connected to paintings (art) the statue is within the Art institute across the street from the casque location. The word brush is in the image and the verse and tying it to a location. Now let's take the SF image, The word Justices can represent Jail, in the image we have a window with bars, this could be a clue to Jail, which can be connected to Alcatraz. iron man 1 sex scene It seems that some of the images or objects in the image have a couple of degrees of meaning, so being straight forward is not necessary true in the sense you have to use a connection to image and verse in some cases. Brush = art = Art Institute Justices = Jail = Alcatraz So fingers pointing to.....? 43 1/2 could be a nod to "for all to see" tour boats left from this dock ( seeing all of the bay) , fingers representing a number, which represents a place and the line "for all to see" Now this is just an opinion and for what it's worth, who knows LOL?????

Durian wrote:: Hi Goonie. Here's another possible image match for Ghirardelli, since you believe it is the start of the puzzle. First, I noticed her left eye (our right) is treated differently than her right, with extra detail added: Then I noticed the similarities in form and color to the ribbon edging found all around the entrances to Ghirardelli square: Well, that's interesting...

Choice wrote:: Another interpretation of the left sleeve blocks: She's pointing to the seventh set of blocks from bottom. The starting point being Dragon's Gate. Back of her hand reads 7 Roman numeral from her POV. Andrew Jackson, 7th president. https://tinyurl.com/yar9bjzt BTW, that is a spectacular photo. I'm a fan of the Transamerica Pyramid. Just not as a final point. I think it was a major attraction in SF since it was completed in 1972, but the more important building was the one it replaced, Montgomery Block. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montgomery_Block

Durian wrote:: Hi Goonie. Here's another possible image match for Ghirardelli, since you believe it is the start of the puzzle. First, I noticed her left eye (our right) is treated differently than her right, with extra detail added: Then I noticed the similarities in form and color to the ribbon edging found all around the entrances to Ghirardelli square: Looks very close to the columns.

gManTexas wrote:: BTW, that is a spectacular photo. I'm a fan of the Transamerica Pyramid. Just not as a final point. I think it was a major attraction in SF since it was completed in 1972, but the more important building was the one it replaced, Montgomery Block. Another place that was replaced is "Justice" viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=3345

Durian wrote:: FWIW, I would agree with Goonie that the image and verses work hand-in-hand to tie you to specific locations as you move physically through the puzzle. I think the verses lead you from point-to-point, and things in the image confirm you are moving in the proper direction through physical space while solving the puzzle. This seems to work in the SF puzzle, and Chicago as well. FWIW, the verses serve two purposes. Intentionally vague, because they walk you through various sights in the city of choice so you can see things and collect clues, then when you are at the dig spot, to show you the location. Everyone, please stop using Cleveland and Chicago as examples for all of the puzzles. Think deeper.

Durian, I appreciate the work you are doing. The question I would pose to the community at large is: Can you get to the casque location through the image alone? If your answer is no, then why does everyone spend so much time dissecting the images? They are a guide, a rough map, a geolocation. Now, if someone told you the casque is in xxx park, what would you use? The verse of course. Let's frame this with the simplistic Chicago and Cleveland puzzles. The verses tell you where to go. Not the images. Can we stop getting hung up on this rock, that feature, in the images please?

Yes, That is a great photo with the green Coppola building in the foreground. Did you take the photo?

prospector wrote:: Yes, That is a great photo with the green Coppola building in the foreground. Did you take the photo? That's actually a stock photo. In fact if you look at the top of that Columbus Tower/Sentinel Building, the roof line forms a V. Combined with I's on each side of the Transamerica pyramid you get the upside down VII.

Choice wrote:: Choice, great photo....very interesting possibility. Nice find.

Dragon spikes

There is a correlation between size of the moons and the distance of way points from the dig sight. I'm listing the last five spots: 5) Peter and Paul Church, outline of the building on the right side and praying hands. 4) Marconi Memorial, sounds from the sky, inventor of radio 3) Coit tower 2) Columbus statue, referred to in the book as "Colon Savanelli, an intrepidly nautical Folleto (misspelled) out of Genoa". Folletto, Italian meaning elf. 1) Final sight

Sight = site, damn hooked on phonics.

Nice, another cool possibility for the Circus Tent shelter. Nice find Durian. There are so many clues within that background.

My first post. Working on this a long time. I don't have the energy to go there, get permits, etc..., to test my theory. Choice, turn it upside down. There's a time piece under a statue. Like the time capsule in Washington Square in front of the church. Under the Benjamin Franklin statue. An old temperance statue. Matches with the fountain relic. The triangle symbol matches. The other markings too. There's a sign post hanging in the park, matches with a Washington Park signpost. 12 paces from west side of the Ben Franklin statue in Washington Park, SF. Right eh? Towards Columbus where the dragon looks. Ask permission to dig. You don't want to dig the time capsule by accident. It's a city park, you need permission. More thoughts: Verse 5: 2202 Lombard (bunch of stuff that leads you to Coit) A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight Beneath the only standing member ----- Of a forest To the south "Can this be anything other than a tree?" Yes, Ben Franklin could be the only one standing in the park! Break up the sentences. This is a park where everyone is usually lying down on towels. Franklin is the only standing member (of the park). Ben Franklin also did some work with balloons, wingless bird.

Maybe this is the only standing member of a forest.... https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/n ... -2011.html

Lonesome palm. I think it's near this thing at the Greenwich steps. https://tinyurl.com/ybzzqdgl

Unredacted version: https://tinyurl.com/ydayj6km Other side of steps: https://tinyurl.com/y72b7pmh

Cool pics. Much better than the aerial diagrams that litter the forums...

That statue appears to be on private property...? Can probably ask the resident(s) how long it's been there. That basin looks like it's built into the wall....hard to tell if that's public or private....or, how long it's been part of the wall / that area on the side of the public stairs... (Choice -- Interesting find, imho. Whether it's there or not, the area under the basin is visually reminiscent of the shrubbery planter in Cleveland...)

Choice wrote:: Unredacted version: https://tinyurl.com/ydayj6km Other side of steps: https://tinyurl.com/y72b7pmh I have scouted this area, and talked to the residents there, the statue is only about 8 years old, the fountain has been there a long time, but the stone wall(in front) has only been there for about 10 years. The area was backed filled and the stone wall was added.

There are lamp posst all around Telegraph hill that resemble the shadow under the table, This lamp pole is next to the fountain.

Here is what I think is a match that puts you at the Top of Greenwich steps, possible a confirmation of the area to be in, but again IMO, just could be pareidolia? The Rock face is disguised in the image to represent these rock formations atop of the stairs. famous poems about dreams shesher kobita The L shaped rock is infront of the path to the stairs, the other rock formation is to the right of the stairs. what rhymes with arrow

I joined this post a couple of month ago assuming that people are sharing their findings for the sole purpose of solving the puzzle. Now it’s obvious that some people hold back their findings and this makes the whole point of crowd sharing and solving moot. Side-effects may include waste of time, redundant effort and possible hostility. I’ve been getting PM’s from people I’ve never heard of that claim to have the same idea and came up with my findings a long time ago, me too, me too. It would’ve been nice to share your findings so someone else doesn’t have to waste countless amount of time researching. So to these people, #methree

One observation about the dragon on her robe: The serpent seems to be two creatures. One main dragon with the head and tail and the other is the thicker one right in the middle that looks like a giant 6. Also the platform that the pearl sits on has six sides outlined in blue indicating importance. My crude blue line drawing indicates the natural flow of the dragon. Sorry, hard to draw with a mouse! I think the giant 6 is a blown up overlay of the dragon's head and neck.

Totally random thought, and I figured I'd post it here since this thread is off the rails and batshit loco... Post a playlist for scouting or digging for the Secret. I mean boots on the ground, headphones on, mission driven. What would you be listening to?

Hit the road jack, All my exes live in Texas?

Choice wrote:: Hit the road jack, All my exes live in Texas? You got some issue? This isn't the first swipe you've taken.

gManTexas wrote:: You got some issue? This isn't the first swipe you've taken. lol, chill. BTW none of that was bat crap loco. I may have the final dig spot near Coit. Need to scout the area to confirm. Shared with Goonie in case he can do a walk through.

Choice wrote:: lol, chill. BTW none of that was bat crap loco. I may have the final dig spot near Coit. Need to scout the area to confirm. Shared with Goonie in case he can do a walk through. lol, shill. Oops, was that a Freudian slip?

Ride Like the Wind (Christopher Cross)

gManTexas wrote:: lol, shill. Oops, was that a Freudian slip? Something must've gotten lost in translation. I don't speak stupid.

Choice wrote:: Something must've gotten lost in translation. I don't speak stupid. Get off your high horse. By the way, speaking of high horses, I'm currently in Cleveland looking at all the points that were missed and overlooked. When are you gonna put some boots on the ground in some Choice spots? BTW, next time you call me stupid, I will bitch slap you from wherever I happen to be.

Do yourself a favor and get a new pair of glasses. You obviously can't see the difference between chill and shill. And get a life, I'm not obsessed as you are. It's just a hobby in my spare time and have done more in a few weeks than you'll ever do in a decade, stupid!

Choice wrote:: Do yourself a favor and get a new pair of glasses. You obviously can't see the difference between chill and shill. And get a life, I'm not obsessed as you are. It's just a hobby in my spare time and have done more in a few weeks than you'll ever do in a decade, stupid! Godspeed Choice. May you lift casques to the moon in victory.

bless your heart too.

Durian wrote:: Since everybody's in such a fine mood this evening, here is the third probably image match to Aquatic Park's East speaker tower (the giant pole) I've found. Note the outline of the eyebrows match the curve of the underside of the speaker exactly: I thought you want to shave her eyebrows with a razor

At last! Someone that understands a joke! There's hope for this planet yet.

gManTexas wrote:: Totally random thought, and I figured I'd post it here since this thread is off the rails and batshit loco... Post a playlist for scouting or digging for the Secret. I mean boots on the ground, headphones on, mission driven. What would you be listening to? Hey gMan, it's this one... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdt58T366xw

atdreamer2112 wrote:: Hey gMan, it's this one... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xdt58T366xw OH HELL NO!!......Lemme fix that for ya!... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tA0_vr_Ktl8

Crazy Train(OZZY) would be mine, cuz walking down the street with a probe, shove and a drill people look at you like YOU CRAZY!.......Well I AM!

Coolest flyby https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J4fo9xe5I-Y

I am bored too so...! [Edited multiple times] The leg indicates the start and finish of the puzzle. The Gate is the start and the round handle on the left and the dark leaf on the right side together is the ending. Here's another way of looking at the table leg:

Goonie68 wrote:: Crazy Train(OZZY) would be mine, cuz walking down the street with a probe, shove and a drill people look at you like YOU CRAZY!.......Well I AM! Oh, that's a good one! Since Gman asked for a "Headphones-On Playlist," here's what we've got so far: 1.) Counting Crows-Mrs. Potter's Lullaby (in my defense, I was still Friday-night drinking at 4am Saturday morning; I'm too old for that shit! However, I love the song, so it makes it to the Unofficial Official Playlist "because I said so") https://youtu.be/Xdt58T366xw 2.) Roxette-The Look (but this metal cover version by Leo Moracchioli which is weird to watch but also kinda cool to listen to anyway, shared by Merlin) https://youtu.be/tA0_vr_Ktl8 3.) Ozzy Osbourne-Crazy Train (Goonie68, you didn’t share a video link, so I picked one for you including Randy Rhoads because… respect) https://youtu.be/H-PQeWJ2ZC8 4.) Coolest FlyBy-Not Even a Song (a video that Choice shared, I admit I was afraid to watch because I thought it might be schmuckery, turned out to be pretty amazing. I would edit it down to at least half-time for the “Headphones-On Unofficial Official Playlist,” and use it as a brief intro into the next song) https://youtu.be/J4fo9xe5I-Y 5.) Humble Pie-30 Days in the Hole (should be the Headphones-On Unofficial Official Theme Song for the Secret, in my unbiased, unprofessional, not-so-humble-opinion) https://youtu.be/sdXjm8pZMws

Keep going and I'll start a spotify playlist.

burnstyle wrote:: Keep going and I'll start a spotify playlist. LOL, normally I like a playlist of songs that go together, but since this is all over the map, I would throw this on there: Somebody's always watching me - Rockwell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY

burnstyle wrote:: Keep going and I 'll start a spotify playlist. LOL, normally I like a playlist of songs that go together, but since this is all over the map, I would throw this on there: Somebody's always watching me - Rockwell https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YvAYIJSSZY

That's a horrible song Tex. The only reason that song was a success was because MJ had a one liner in there. If you're looking for a stalker song here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOGaugKpzs

atdreamer2112 wrote:: Coolest FlyBy-Not Even a Song Sometimes a flyby is just a flyby

Choice wrote:: I am bored too so...! The leg indicates the start and finish of the puzzle. The Gate is the start and the round handle on the left and the dark leaf on the right side together is the ending. If only the lower levels of the roof were there or the squiggle of the dragon on top. or even the fish actually looked like the fish... it's just there is not enough there to say "this looks like the gate" because we have seen lots of examples of things the gate has been suggested for.

Choice wrote:: I am bored too so...! The leg indicates the start and finish of the puzzle. The Gate is the start and the round handle on the left and the dark leaf on the right side together is the ending. If only the lower levels of the roof were there or the squiggle of the dragon on top. or even the fish actually looked like the fish... it's just there is not enough there to say "this looks like the gate" because we have seen lots of examples of things the gate has been suggested for.

MERLIN wrote:: OH HELL NO!!......Lemme fix that for ya!... Joe Sat is the man when it comes to guitar... Here he is with hair: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VI57QHL6ge0

maltedfalcon wrote:: If only the lower levels of the roof were there or the squiggle of the dragon on top. or even the fish actually looked like the fish... it's just there is not enough there to say "this looks like the gate" because we have seen lots of examples of things the gate has been suggested for. Looking closely at the two "fish" I can clearly see eyes on both. Also blue outline around them. Also got a pole in their mouth.

maltedfalcon wrote:: If only the lower levels of the roof were there or the squiggle of the dragon on top. or even the fish actually looked like the fish... it's just there is not enough there to say "this looks like the gate" because we have seen lots of examples of things the gate has been suggested for. Looking closely at the two "fish" I can clearly see eyes on both. Also blue outline around them. Also got a pole in their mouth.

Choice wrote:: That's a horrible song Tex. The only reason that song was a success was because MJ had a one liner in there. If you're looking for a stalker song here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOGaugKpzs I 'm going to be the bigger person here. Did I malign you in some way, or do you just have a general disdain for people who happen to live in Texas? If I somehow offended you in your short time here, please let me know and I will apologize and we can move on. Otherwise, you have no need to respond to anything I post.

Choice wrote:: That's a horrible song Tex. The only reason that song was a success was because MJ had a one liner in there. If you're looking for a stalker song here it is: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OMOGaugKpzs I'm going to be the bigger person here. Did I malign you in some way, or do you just have a general disdain for people who happen to live in Texas? If I somehow offended you in your short time here, please let me know and I will apologize and we can move on. Otherwise, you have no need to respond to anything I post.

I'm just responding to your post and choice of song, nothing personal. You're such a sensitive snowflake

I 'm just responding to your post and choice of song, nothing personal. You're such a sensitive snowflake

gManTexas wrote:: If I somehow offended you in your short time here, please let me know and I will apologize and we can move on ... Perhaps you are oblivious to your own tone of posts. I don't want to go too far back but only recently you diminished people's posts as "batshit loco" and made terroristic threat of violence by posting "I'll bitch slap you from wherever" Question is what kind of "Gman" are you? Gman as gangster or Gman as government worker? Are you a postal worker? Cause that may explain your going postal often.

gManTexas wrote:: If I somehow offended you in your short time here, please let me know and I will apologize and we can move on ... Perhaps you are oblivious to your own tone of posts. I don't want to go too far back but only recently you diminished people's posts as "batshit loco" and made terroristic threat of violence by posting " I 'll bitch slap you from wherever" Question is what kind of "Gman" are you? Gman as gangster or Gman as government worker? Are you a postal worker? Cause that may explain your going postal often.

Curious to know what people think this is? Majority say strawberry? But.........

Goonie68 wrote:: Curious to know what people think this is? Majority say strawberry? But......... This thing maybe? Frame of the painting is in the shape of the Coit observatory windows as if she's standing in front of the window and describing what she's seeing.

Goonie68 wrote:: Curious to know what people think this is? Majority say strawberry? But......... This thing maybe? Frame of the painting is in the shape of the Coit observatory windows as if she's standing in front of the window and describing what she's seeing.

Choice wrote:: This thing maybe? Frame of the painting is in the shape of the Coit observatory windows as if she's standing in front of the window and describing what she's seeing. looking down from the top of the tower in 1982, You will see something different, the “round” area was actually diamond shaped with a upper and lower area separated by 3 little steps. You’ll need to use images before 85 as reference

Choice wrote:: This thing maybe? Frame of the painting is in the shape of the Coit observatory windows as if she's standing in front of the window and describing what she's seeing. looking down from the top of the tower in 1982, You will see something different, the “round” area was actually diamond shaped with a upper and lower area separated by 3 little steps. You’ll need to use images before 85 as reference

I was not sure since a lot of renovation has been done in that area including the statue base. so I wrote maybe. Do you have an image you could post?

I was not sure since a lot of renovation has been done in that area including the statue base. so I wrote maybe. Do you have an image you could post?

Goldengate wrote:: After spending the past month shutting my mind off to Golden Gate Park theories to sincerely consider others' hard-researched thoughts regarding other locations in relation to what we know about Cleveland and Chicago, I'm back to believing that this was intended to be a strawberry for Strawberry Hill. "Strawberry Hill" is listed very clearly on nearly every period map and sits in the center of the park -- it's a focal point. Just looking at what we know about the Chicago and Cleveland images, details like this seem to be addressed in the same simple, yet slightly shrouded way: in Chicago: The fairy from the Spirit of the Lakes fountain, the bowman, the water tower, the fence. Cleveland: The pillars (front and back), the fountain, bas relief lion / water bowl, etc... all of these were recognizable without 1000x zooms and wondering if that one thing you think is an eye for months upon months only to realize it's a pixel misprint. I''m more convinced than ever that the clues are right there, staring us in the face. I'll add one more piece to my theory about the sleeves with 18 and 20 blocks each representing 18th and 20th Avenues. What street runs BETWEEN 18th and 20th through the park? CROSSOVER Drive! The "lane" between those avenues include Crossover drive, the boathouse area on the Western edge of Stow lake which actually flares out like the strawberry stem, the western portion of Strawberry Hill itself... and the Prayerbook Cross. The whole "but first across" line I'd put in the same category as "rumble" in V5 as a primary verse hint. Below are a few different images of that "zone." I'm still refining a couple theories as to the spot, but to me, so much leads to this area (H/T to Goonie for the period tourist map). I urge everyone to put away Google maps for a bit. Find a real 1982 map, look at what Preiss and JJP actually looked at. Similarly, just for a day, untether yourselves from Google as a whole... read the actual book -- look at paper maps... recite the verse out loud as they appeared. Tech helps, but it also hurts.... look at this puzzle as it was intended to be studied. AND YES, I KNOW, nobody solved it then (save Chicago) so we should look at things in new ways... but I'll be blunt... the book sold so terribly it never even warranted to a second printing . So of the few souls that bought it back then... even fewer dug. That's why these casques were not found back then -- not because people weren't using google. There are greater numbers now and more resources... but hyper zooming on google maps and blowing up TINY illustrations from a trade paperback quality printing was not the way the puzzle was meant to be solved. If you can't see it with the naked eye or without photoshop filters... it's not significant to the puzzle. Also, do you really think Preiss was getting aerial photos in 1982 -- they were not easy to find -- certainly harder for any key searcher than Preiss himself -- I just really doubt he went to those crazy lengths -- if it was in 2000 maybe... but not 1982. What if the Cleveland and Chicago puzzles were the hard ones? Remember BP himself refused to give any hints in the Japanese edition for the Boston image because he thought it would be too easy that way. I urge my fellow San Francisco searchers to take a day or so and think simple! Love to hear your thoughts. Great post and I agree wholeheartedly. One other thing that is a game changer is putting boots on the ground in these locations. I realize that is not possible for everyone, but it is eye opening. The scale, the practicality of navigating, the little "a-ha" things that even today cannot be found online. Also, talking to the locals or using local resources. There is a wealth of information that has not been digitized yet, and may never be. Another point to being on site is seeing what flows and what doesn't. Some clues may in fact be gone, however most are still present and the human eye can make connections and fill in the blanks. At least it gives you some perspective on things, in some cases where the casques are not buried.

Goldengate wrote:: After spending the past month shutting my mind off to Golden Gate Park theories to sincerely consider others' hard-researched thoughts regarding other locations in relation to what we know about Cleveland and Chicago, I 'm back to believing that this was intended to be a strawberry for Strawberry Hill. "Strawberry Hill" is listed very clearly on nearly every period map and sits in the center of the park -- it's a focal point. Just looking at what we know about the Chicago and Cleveland images, details like this seem to be addressed in the same simple, yet slightly shrouded way: in Chicago: The fairy from the Spirit of the Lakes fountain, the bowman, the water tower, the fence. Cleveland: The pillars (front and back), the fountain, bas relief lion / water bowl, etc... all of these were recognizable without 1000x zooms and wondering if that one thing you think is an eye for months upon months only to realize it's a pixel misprint. I ''m more convinced than ever that the clues are right there, staring us in the face. I 'll add one more piece to my theory about the sleeves with 18 and 20 blocks each representing 18th and 20th Avenues. What street runs BETWEEN 18th and 20th through the park? CROSSOVER Drive! The "lane" between those avenues include Crossover drive, the boathouse area on the Western edge of Stow lake which actually flares out like the strawberry stem, the western portion of Strawberry Hill itself... and the Prayerbook Cross. The whole "but first across" line I 'd put in the same category as "rumble" in V5 as a primary verse hint. Below are a few different images of that "zone." I 'm still refining a couple theories as to the spot, but to me, so much leads to this area (H/T to Goonie for the period tourist map). I urge everyone to put away Google maps for a bit. Find a real 1982 map, look at what Preiss and JJP actually looked at. Similarly, just for a day, untether yourselves from Google as a whole... read the actual book -- look at paper maps... recite the verse out loud as they appeared. Tech helps, but it also hurts.... look at this puzzle as it was intended to be studied. AND YES, I KNOW, nobody solved it then (save Chicago) so we should look at things in new ways... but I 'll be blunt... the book sold so terribly it never even warranted to a second printing . So of the few souls that bought it back then... even fewer dug. That's why these casques were not found back then -- not because people weren't using google. There are greater numbers now and more resources... but hyper zooming on google maps and blowing up TINY illustrations from a trade paperback quality printing was not the way the puzzle was meant to be solved. If you can't see it with the naked eye or without photoshop filters... it's not significant to the puzzle. Also, do you really think Preiss was getting aerial photos in 1982 -- they were not easy to find -- certainly harder for any key searcher than Preiss himself -- I just really doubt he went to those crazy lengths -- if it was in 2000 maybe... but not 1982. What if the Cleveland and Chicago puzzles were the hard ones? Remember BP himself refused to give any hints in the Japanese edition for the Boston image because he thought it would be too easy that way. I urge my fellow San Francisco searchers to take a day or so and think simple! Love to hear your thoughts. Great post and I agree wholeheartedly. One other thing that is a game changer is putting boots on the ground in these locations. I realize that is not possible for everyone, but it is eye opening. The scale, the practicality of navigating, the little "a-ha" things that even today cannot be found online. Also, talking to the locals or using local resources. There is a wealth of information that has not been digitized yet, and may never be. Another point to being on site is seeing what flows and what doesn't. Some clues may in fact be gone, however most are still present and the human eye can make connections and fill in the blanks. At least it gives you some perspective on things, in some cases where the casques are not buried.

Goonie68 wrote:: Curious to know what people think this is? Majority say strawberry? But......... Maybe what's on top of these three high posts??.. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/ ... to-3136817

Goonie68 wrote:: Curious to know what people think this is? Majority say strawberry? But......... Maybe what's on top of these three high posts??.. https://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/ ... to-3136817

Choice wrote:: I was not sure since a lot of renovation has been done in that area including the statue base. so I wrote maybe. Do you have an image you could post? I don’t, all I have was a “purposed” elevated architectural drawings for the 85’ renovation with written descriptions. No top views. I found some b&w ariel views of the area taken in 1984. And I’m sure you know the trees of those days were much bigger and it basically covers the entire back porch...can’t even see the trails.

Does the lions head and snake look kind of like a backwards G??.... https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/w ... _36761.jpg

My point was "Strawberries" are RED, not blue.

Goldengate wrote:: That brings back memories, used to go past it every day on my way to school! That said, in all the translations from the Japanese edition I've read, BP singled out the "high posts are three" as wooden posts. But the shape is cool... it's widely known as a pinecone / artichoke finial (had a bunch at my old house). Another aside: it's awesome how all the molding is painted... too many old ornate public works buildings were slathered with the same monotoned paint. This is how it should be done! Oh the pine cone of Belvedere... Here's a long winded video about masons and Egypt and everything "batshit loco"! https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L777RhL_Fz4&t=3611s

It may look like a filbert

No, just gummies, miss that guy!

Choice wrote:: It may look like a filbert did Josh sell you some "brownies"???

Choice wrote:: No, just gummies you should share!

Goldengate wrote:: Gotcha. But to that same point, in Chicago the water tower did not have a windmill and the Spirit of the Great Lakes figure from the fountain did not have wings. In Cleveland the fountain was not hand sized chalice, etc. I think this is the same kind of thing... a clear reference (a shape resembling a strawberry where there's a land mass called Strawberry Hill), but slightly masked by being blue. It seems to me that JJP created these images in a way that they would be recognizable with the bare eye, meant to be correlated with a location, but just obscured or masked enough to blend into the theme. So to directly address your point, I think that it's the shape of a strawberry more than anything else I can easily identify with a quick glance. The shape is in the middle of a large rectangle... just as Strawberry Hill is mentioned in every map and is the high point of Golden Gate Park. Just speaking for myself and my own theory, when added to the 18th & 20th avenue identifiers that contain between them crossover drive, the "stem" of the strawberry and several other interesting landmarks, it seems that the general area is being called out in several interesting ways. To Gman's point, I haven't been there since the summer so am looking forward to walking that part of the park, including the wooded areas between Traverse Drive and the West side of Strawberry Hill. Also, while just out of that 18th & 20th zone it's interesting to me that the Chinese / Taiwanese pavilion on the island is COVERED in triratna symbols that look an awful lot like the three balls on her dress. Considering the theme of the puzzle that still seems one of the biggest hints to me -- that's the only of the symbols on her dress that I can directly physically link to something the park. You make good points here GG, I was looking at this as more of a word play, I can certainly identify the shape resembling a strawberry, but changing the color turns it into something simple like berry (for me) Maybe berry, blue = blueberry,

I am hoping this will open and it will show the book I saw for sale in the Eastern Sierras. https://boredfeet.com/singles2/twaincal.php

Goldengate wrote:: And last, the man who translated the Japanese translation has communicated with group members here... I've read the note. His English is pretty damn good -- and my friend in Japan (also a translator) told me he's a legend in the translating and publishing world and he was the dean of a school dedicated to translation... so I'll take his word for it that Preiss said "wood posts." Hi GG, In regards to the high posts three line. If we are to take them as being wooden posts, do you have any thoughts on what this could be referring to at the GGP. I know it had always been widely seen as being Sutro Tower. But thats obviously out now given its not made of wood. Just curious if you have any ideas/thoughts on that.

all of the sudden out of nowhere prospector pops a Verse related link and completely destroyed the ambriance in the middle of GG and Durian's debate, follows by another unrelated Verse questions by bbi... and this is a Image thread

bbi wrote:: Hi GG, In regards to the high posts three line. If we are to take them as being wooden posts, do you have any thoughts on what this could be referring to at the GGP. I know it had always been widely seen as being Sutro Tower. But thats obviously out now given its not made of wood. Just curious if you have any ideas/thoughts on that. Good question bbi!

Good question? it's off-topic and awfully wrong

Spiritr wrote:: all of the sudden out of nowhere prospector pops a Verse related link and completely destroyed the ambriance in the middle of GG and Durian's debate, follows by another unrelated Verse questions by bbi... and this is a Image thread Rules, schmules.

Goldengate wrote:: After spending the past month shutting my mind off to Golden Gate Park theories to sincerely consider others' hard-researched thoughts regarding other locations in relation to what we know about Cleveland and Chicago, I'm back to believing that this was intended to be a strawberry for Strawberry Hill. "Strawberry Hill" is listed very clearly on nearly every period map and sits in the center of the park -- it's a focal point. Just looking at what we know about the Chicago and Cleveland images, details like this seem to be addressed in the same simple, yet slightly shrouded way: in Chicago: The fairy from the Spirit of the Lakes fountain, the bowman, the water tower, the fence. Cleveland: The pillars (front and back), the fountain, bas relief lion / water bowl, etc... all of these were recognizable without 1000x zooms and wondering if that one thing you think is an eye for months upon months only to realize it's a pixel misprint. I''m more convinced than ever that the clues are right there, staring us in the face. I'll add one more piece to my theory about the sleeves with 18 and 20 blocks each representing 18th and 20th Avenues. What street runs BETWEEN 18th and 20th through the park? CROSSOVER Drive! The "lane" between those avenues include Crossover drive, the boathouse area on the Western edge of Stow lake which actually flares out like the strawberry stem, the western portion of Strawberry Hill itself... and the Prayerbook Cross. The whole "but first across" line I'd put in the same category as "rumble" in V5 as a primary verse hint. Below are a few different images of that "zone." I'm still refining a couple theories as to the spot, but to me, so much leads to this area (H/T to Goonie for the period tourist map). I urge everyone to put away Google maps for a bit. Find a real 1982 map, look at what Preiss and JJP actually looked at. Similarly, just for a day, untether yourselves from Google as a whole... read the actual book -- look at paper maps... recite the verse out loud as they appeared. Tech helps, but it also hurts.... look at this puzzle as it was intended to be studied. AND YES, I KNOW, nobody solved it then (save Chicago) so we should look at things in new ways... but I'll be blunt... the book sold so terribly it never even warranted getting a second printing. So of the few souls that bought it back then in the early 80s... even fewer dug. That's why these casques were not found back then -- not because people weren't using Google. There are greater numbers now and more resources... but hyper zooming on google maps and blowing up TINY illustrations from a trade paperback quality printing was not the way the puzzle was meant to be solved. If you can't see it with the naked eye or without photoshop filters... it's not significant to the puzzle. Also, do you really think Preiss was getting aerial photos in 1982 -- they were not easy to find -- certainly harder for any key searcher than Preiss himself -- I just really doubt he went to those crazy lengths -- if it was in 2000 maybe... but not 1982. What if the Cleveland and Chicago puzzles were the hard ones? Remember BP himself refused to give any hints in the Japanese edition for the Boston image because he thought it would be too easy that way. I urge my fellow San Francisco searchers to take a day or so and think simple! Love to hear your thoughts. Hey Goldengate, That is a cool map. Could you send a link or post the whole map of GGP with that version? That would be greatly appreciated.

Goldengate wrote:: After spending the past month shutting my mind off to Golden Gate Park theories to sincerely consider others' hard-researched thoughts regarding other locations in relation to what we know about Cleveland and Chicago, I'm back to believing that this was intended to be a strawberry for Strawberry Hill. "Strawberry Hill" is listed very clearly on nearly every period map and sits in the center of the park -- it's a focal point. Just looking at what we know about the Chicago and Cleveland images, details like this seem to be addressed in the same simple, yet slightly shrouded way: in Chicago: The fairy from the Spirit of the Lakes fountain , the bowman, the water tower, the fence. Cleveland: The pillars (front and back), the fountain , bas relief lion / water bowl, etc... all of these were recognizable without 1000x zooms and wondering if that one thing you think is an eye for months upon months only to realize it's a pixel misprint. I''m more convinced than ever that the clues are right there, staring us in the face. I'll add one more piece to my theory about the sleeves with 18 and 20 blocks each representing 18th and 20th Avenues. What street runs BETWEEN 18th and 20th through the park? CROSSOVER Drive! The "lane" between those avenues include Crossover drive, the boathouse area on the Western edge of Stow lake which actually flares out like the strawberry stem, the western portion of Strawberry Hill itself... and the Prayerbook Cross. The whole "but first across" line I'd put in the same category as "rumble" in V5 as a primary verse hint. Below are a few different images of that "zone." I'm still refining a couple theories as to the spot, but to me, so much leads to this area (H/T to Goonie for the period tourist map). I urge everyone to put away Google maps for a bit. Find a real 1982 map, look at what Preiss and JJP actually looked at. Similarly, just for a day, untether yourselves from Google as a whole... read the actual book -- look at paper maps... recite the verse out loud as they appeared. Tech helps, but it also hurts.... look at this puzzle as it was intended to be studied. AND YES, I KNOW, nobody solved it then (save Chicago) so we should look at things in new ways... but I'll be blunt... the book sold so terribly it never even warranted getting a second printing. So of the few souls that bought it back then in the early 80s... even fewer dug. That's why these casques were not found back then -- not because people weren't using Google. There are greater numbers now and more resources... but hyper zooming on google maps and blowing up TINY illustrations from a trade paperback quality printing was not the way the puzzle was meant to be solved. If you can't see it with the naked eye or without photoshop filters... it's not significant to the puzzle. Also, do you really think Preiss was getting aerial photos in 1982 -- they were not easy to find -- certainly harder for any key searcher than Preiss himself -- I just really doubt he went to those crazy lengths -- if it was in 2000 maybe... but not 1982. What if the Cleveland and Chicago puzzles were the hard ones? Remember BP himself refused to give any hints in the Japanese edition for the Boston image because he thought it would be too easy that way. I urge my fellow San Francisco searchers to take a day or so and think simple! Love to hear your thoughts. Hey Goldengate, That is a cool map. Could you send a link or post the whole map of GGP with that version? That would be greatly appreciated.

Choice, per your request yesterday, this is the article I have the original 1984 cut-outs of the Chronicle another purposed plan used for the renovation. date unknown. the most updated and official plan from SF Rec&Park Dept. *the original file was huge, pm me if you want it. actual view from the top, on 7/2018. around...3:30 pm. from the back observatory from the east observatory, *the shadow

Durian wrote:: FWIW, these two shapes are very similar: #Zoominginandlookingatshadowsagain https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/zh. ... 1216112515

Goonie68 wrote:: Curious to know what people think this is? Majority say strawberry? But......... It's a graphic representation of the two Speaker Towers facing each other in Aquatic Park.

Goldengate wrote:: Hey Rviewer1, I'm guessing you're talking about the cool illustrated map? When I get back to my home laptop I'll dig around and see. Full credit where credit is due, that's actually one Goonie found and contributed to one of the SF FB groups. I think he said his was 84. What's interesting is that the map has been updated and is still available, but with new changes noted and illustrated in the same style -- such as the Steinhart, De Young and California Science Center have been redrawn to look like they do now. I think you can the updated map by googling around. I'll add the full 80s example later today if I can find it! Thank you Goldengate and a shout out to Goonie for getting this map. I have been hitting google lately looking for maps like this one. I am going to start calling around to places like libraries for some.

I can’t remember the last time I was in one

Hey Rviewer1, I'm guessing you're talking about the cool illustrated map? When I get back to my home laptop I'll dig around and see. Full credit where credit is due, that's actually one Goonie found and contributed to one of the SF FB groups. I think he said his was 84. What's interesting is that the map has been updated and is still available, but with new changes noted and illustrated in the same style -- such as the Steinhart, De Young and California Science Center have been redrawn to look like they do now. I think you can the updated map by googling around. I'll add the full 80s example later today if I can find it![/quote] Thank you Goldengate and a shout out to Goonie for getting this map. I have been hitting google lately looking for maps like this one. I am going to start calling around to places like libraries for some. I can’t remember the last time I was in one.[/quote][/quote] Rviewer1, what area are you looking for? GGP or other?

Goonie68 wrote:: Rviewer1, what area are you looking for? GGP or other? I'm not sure what you have but the areas I'm interested in are GGP and LOH. I still remain open to other areas of the city as being possible solutions. Do you have any ideas on where I could buy some old vintage maps that BP may have used of SF and the parks. Thanks Goonie!

I must agree, the fold out map it so cool. I think it was Goldengate who posted it. I wrote a post but I guess I deleted it about going to the historical society. I am also wondering if the Parks have archives? I think I saw the SF downtown library has lots of photos. I have copied some and have them save in my "Secret Folder" and of course the SF Chronicle archives. Newspapers call there archives the morgue -- where flies and old photos are stored.

Thanks Spiritr, got the PDF recently, just didn't get the chance to look at it. Will keep in touch. @Goldengate, to make the image fit better to your solution, mirror the image so the G and h are correct. Then the hand with VII fingers would be pointing to 20th ave. 7th pres. Jackson on $20 bill.

i think this thread is overloaded with way too much mixed opinions and at 240 pages, it's impossible to tell what is right and wrong anymore... I'm gonna make a thread of my own for san francisco and make some space for this thread

Rviewer1 wrote:: I'm not sure what you have but the areas I'm interested in are GGP and LOH. I still remain open to other areas of the city as being possible solutions. Do you have any ideas on where I could buy some old vintage maps that BP may have used of SF and the parks. Thanks Goonie! The San Francisco Library is your best bet for maps, slides and information about the parks and the city. This was at the library, a replica of Francis Scott Key monument made out of wood! Very cool! limited tort

This might peak your interest Rviewer1 he wishes for the cloths of heaven poem analysis

I found some large wooden poles - https://www.google.com/maps/place/Georg ... 22.4402579

Very nice Merlin! But all this talk about red strawberries and blueberries makes me hungry for dessert. I still think blue and purple circles represent hydrangea flowers where intentionally planted around Lombard street as mudslide prevention. This is very close to the painting's dragon head. Head spike crown and all: And I don't know if this was there in the early 80's or not but looks very close as well: I wish I could find a definitive drawing of the layout in late 70's.

@Merlin, your backward G lion/serpent statue is modern. Here's Manuel Palos in his studio sculpting serpent's head for the fountain at the Golden Gate Music Concourse in 2011.

Damn!.....Back to the drawing board. Thanks Choice

Could this be the blue strawberry?? https://images.pond5.com/crab-statue-pi ... still.jpeg

@Merlin, you should really research a bit before spitting things out. Crab Topiary sculpture at Pier 39 by Jeff Brees, installed in 2003.

Choice wrote:: Crab Topiary sculpture at Pier 39, Fisherman's Wharf, San Francisco by Jeff Brees, installed in 2003 I need a beer......and a time machine.

So what's the deal with Lotta's Fountain? It keeps changing size. Here are pictures from 1880, 1956, 1980 and now:

Durian wrote:: It's a TARDIS? Maybe it's Merlin's time machine.

It was moved once but it's the same fountain. I think they reduced the size to bring it back to the original size. But during BP's visit it was giant.

Choice wrote:: @Merlin, your backward G lion/serpent statue is modern. Here's Manuel Palos in his studio sculpting serpent's head for the fountain at the Golden Gate Music Concourse in 2011. All is not lost Merlin. The Rideout Fountain by M Earl Cummings with the lion and serpent was installed in 1924. The picture Choice posted does indeed show Manuel Palos - however he was restoring/repairing/replacing the sculpture around 2010. Not sure when the damage mentioned in this article occurred.... https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/R ... to-2307236

My bad, relied on SF library website Whenever I see the backward G in the painting I see a black knight inside (chess piece) and a man's head in h.

Choice wrote:: Maybe it's Merlin's time machine. This is how MERLIN does time travel - http://riopretobeerclub.com.br/uploads/ ... 1914aa.jpg

Thank you Goonie! I’m on the run right now but can’t wait to start looking at everything.

I like Huntington falls on Strawberry Hill as a potential Casque location. Looking up at the first wooden bridge from the bottom I can see three wooden vertical posts that seem high from down below. Crossing those bridges could be interpreted to be a giant step. The paddle boats could be an object of Twain’s attention although I feel better if we had a bigger connection to Twain. Also standing below the falls with the rocks, it sure looks like the water and rocks in the image. From the book there is the passage that says “ The Nymphs of Hellas cherish sweet Aquamarine, spring-water clear. From far Cathay”. I don’t have a giant pole though. Can anyone make a decent argument for a case in favor Huntington Falls and Strawberry Hill? Also I have not been up to Strawberry Hill yet so I don’t know what the view looks like and what site confirmers that you can see from up there.

Polo can be interpreted as pole

Goldengate wrote:: Hey Rviewer1, Just a reminder -- while Huntington Falls shares some strikingly similar aspects to Image 1, know that 100% the falls were still non-operational an in fact in a collapsed state in 1981. The falls collapsed in the early 60s and stayed that way until 1984 I believe they went through extensive renovations, engineering and retrofitting, including the manufactured rock work that you see today. The bridges were also washed out during that collapse until they were rebuilt. The falls were always a "fake feature" and not natural -- as are most of the rocks most of which are actually concrete and was remade for the 84. I forgot if I posted the documentation in this thread -- but it can easily be found on the internet. In my next post, I'm putting up a great 1981 article from the San Francisco Examiner -- I think it should be read carefully by everyone. Hello Goldengate and Rivewer1, I really appreciate all of the posts and answers. I liked the Huntington Falls idea but was happy to see Goldengate clear up anything about that time frame in Golden Gate park. I have been working on a solve that would take me into the park at the Senior Center and onto JFK drive. I spent a long time looking at the falls and the rock around that area. I didn't know it collapsed before 1981 and stayed that way until 1984. That is the sort of ideas I love about this forum. I have read through this thread and the verse thread a few times and I still miss a lot. I have started a list of the Dig sites and will post it soon. I'm at work right now and should get off this right now. YIKES I'm obsessed! And here is to Goldengate and all the others who have helped newbies like me out. . Also, I can't wait to read the article from the Examiner.

Thanks Goldengate. That is the toughest part of this hunt. You always have to go back and check to see how things were in 1981 and then, has anything changed since 1981. There is that 1907 Bronz Sundial done by M. Earl Cummings that now sits in front of the De Young Museum. Does anyone know where that was located in 1981?

Goldengate, I've also found old magazines to be a resource. I was interested in the Legion of Honor art exhibits back around 1980, so i found an article in Sunset Magazine. Unfortunately I didn't find anything I could use.

Choice wrote:: The leg indicates the start and finish of the puzzle. The Gate is the start and the round handle on the left and the dark leaf on the right side together is the ending. Here's another way of looking at the table leg: To expand on my dragon's gate hypothesis, looking at the G, there may be a dragon's head inside making it dragon's G. And h on the other side spells hill. I think there's a head or something inside the "h" too.

Goldengate wrote:: To me, the most compelling thing is the shape of the parking lot and the orientation of the circular pond... It seems like everyone ignores the fact that the platform that the pearl sits on is not circular but hexagonal.

Choice wrote:: It seems like everyone ignores the fact that the platform that the pearl sits on is not circular but hexagonal. It appears that what's under the pearl is a shadow , and giving the illusion that the pearl is high up.

Choice wrote:: It seems like everyone ignores the fact that the platform that the pearl sits on is not circular but hexagonal. Can you further explain this, "platform" you mean below the neck area? or the collar of the dress?

Spiritr wrote:: "platform" you mean below the neck area? or the collar of the dress? I mean the blue hexagon:

that's a....hexagon? btw, there's a hexagon shaped flower bed in the area near my interest spot, I even ask the Park Gardener for the plan, it's only 2' in depth furthermore... they had a voluntary program with the elementary school nearby, kids will re-pot and change the soils there annually...

Isn't it? Perhaps try looking at an original book and let us know.

looking at the book(s), it's just a blue round glowing of the Pearl. Much like what you crop out, I've scale it down using my iphone XS to almost exact size as the US book, in the smaller books, due to difference in printing quality, especially the second version, these japanese papers were much better in quality compares to the US version. and I don't know how to explain to you, by gazing the image under the light, the details of the blue area becomes very HD? I can't came up with a better word to describe it, as if the image become negative. I tried to capture it with my phone but it's really hard, one hand I'm holding the book with my other hand holding a phone...and here's the photo, if holding it close, I can actually see every single one of those blue blocks on the dragon as well as the pebbles at the back. It's really sharp and clear. other image but still, it's round and doesn't look hexagonal at all...IMO

I know it's verboten here but I used my graphics program to isolate blue and I get this: The pearl is perfectly round. Also the moons. I'm sure he could've done a better job of drawing a circle if in fact that's what he wanted to draw. Flower planters are off limit too. I think he wanted to obscure the fact that it's a hexagon.

Why do I see Bing [bot] and Google [bot] users in this forum? Are they ironic handles or actual bots? If real bots, why are they permitted in this forum?

you mean JJP purposely blurred it out? For the flower planner part, if you saw what I posted in another thread, on the construction plan of the Greek Cultural Garden, where the cask was buried was clearly a Flower Plant. Google and Bing records and collects data for cached from phpBB or vBulletin and many other forums all the time. Mostly just front page. Nothing unusual about it. You didn't read the agreements when you sign up?

Spiritr wrote:: You didn't read the agreements when you sign up? you mean JJP purposely blurred it out? Heck no I didn't! Maybe, just so it's not so obvious JJP obscured it, made it hazy to hide it in plain sight.

Spiritr wrote:: it's just a blue round glowing of the Pearl. That's a good point. If it's meant to be a glowing halo around the pearl then It would be uneven and not perfectly round. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YJduDyFA4 Now, going with the assumption that It's a glowing halo around the pearl, shouldn't we then be looking for a lamp post with a globe fixture or similar thing rather than a round pond or fountain?

Do you guys see any similarities to the image here... https://i1.wp.com/www.bayarea.com/wp-co ... 27px&ssl=1

MERLIN wrote:: Do you guys see any similarities to the image here... https://i1.wp.com/www.bayarea.com/wp-co ... 27px&ssl=1 maybe I can show you what I think is more similar, I don't know if you're familiar with this one, the area above can be seen facing east of this image

MERLIN wrote:: Do you guys see any similarities to the image here... https://i1.wp.com/www.bayarea.com/wp-co ... 27px&ssl=1 maybe I can show you what I think is more similar, I don't know if you're familiar with this one, the area above can be seen facing east of this image

Unknown: Now, going with the assumption that It's a glowing halo around the pearl, shouldn't we then be looking for a lamp post with a globe fixture or similar thing rather than a round pond or fountain? Based on what's found and using those image as relevant references, no, I don't think the round glowing light has anything to do with the buried spot. But if you're suggesting to look for light poles and round shaped fixtures, then Yes, I think we should I recommend visiting the history room on the 6th floor of the main library to anyone who is interested in history of the city. *Avoid driving at all cost.

Unknown: Now, going with the assumption that It's a glowing halo around the pearl, shouldn't we then be looking for a lamp post with a globe fixture or similar thing rather than a round pond or fountain? Based on what's found and using those image as relevant references, no, I don't think the round glowing light has anything to do with the buried spot. But if you're suggesting to look for light poles and round shaped fixtures, then Yes, I think we should I recommend visiting the history room on the 6th floor of the main library to anyone who is interested in history of the city. *Avoid driving at all cost.

Choice wrote:: That's a good point. If it's meant to be a glowing halo around the pearl then It would be uneven and not perfectly round. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h2YJduDyFA4 Now, going with the assumption that It's a glowing halo around the pearl, shouldn't we then be looking for a lamp post with a globe fixture or similar thing rather than a round pond or fountain? Or, maybe....to paraphrase Sigmund.... "Sometimes, a pearl is just a pearl."

Choice wrote:: I think he wanted to obscure the fact that it's a hexagon. Or he wanted to obscure the fact that it is a circle. As it appears now, it is *neither* shape, and it a simple fuzzy glow.

Choice wrote:: I think he wanted to obscure the fact that it's a hexagon. Or he wanted to obscure the fact that it is a circle. As it appears now, it is *neither* shape, and it a simple fuzzy glow.

Goonie68 wrote:: It appears that what's under the pearl is a shadow , and giving the illusion that the pearl is high up. Yes that shadow is important but not necessarily high up. I believe it is a circle that is casting a shadow and this is a nearby indicator of the casque burial site.

Goonie68 wrote:: It appears that what's under the pearl is a shadow , and giving the illusion that the pearl is high up. Yes that shadow is important but not necessarily high up. I believe it is a circle that is casting a shadow and this is a nearby indicator of the casque burial site.

Here is my updated location for San Francisco. It is a matter of feet from Durian's target which I also see as a viable location. The farthest East entrance to the Bleachers (Giant Step) is the key. On the left hand side, under the decorative circle entrance, below the 4th or 5th vertical line is the casque's location. Here is the visual:

Here is my updated location for San Francisco. It is a matter of feet from Durian's target which I also see as a viable location. The farthest East entrance to the Bleachers (Giant Step) is the key. On the left hand side, under the decorative circle entrance, below the 4th or 5th vertical line is the casque's location. Here is the visual:

MrBackstop wrote:: Here is my updated location for San Francisco. It is a matter of feet from Durian's target which I also see as a viable location. The farthest East entrance to the Bleachers (Giant Step) is the key. On the left hand side, under the decorative circle entrance, below the 4th or 5th vertical line is the casque's location. Here is the visual: https:// i .imgur.com/PyW1oKa.jpg So, from this view (for those with Google Earth or maps), you mean on the right side of that entrance to the bleachers, either directly below the circle or on the slope? https://earth.app.goo.gl/N8cJ1u https://goo.gl/maps/kk8jgKEDVwu (Tilt up, zoom in) This info about the bleachers and the work they did in that area doesn't affect a thing...nor does the slope to the right (E / NE) of the entrance to the bleachers? http://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2175#p142415

MrBackstop wrote:: Here is my updated location for San Francisco. It is a matter of feet from Durian's target which I also see as a viable location. The farthest East entrance to the Bleachers (Giant Step) is the key. On the left hand side, under the decorative circle entrance, below the 4th or 5th vertical line is the casque's location. Here is the visual: https://i.imgur.com/PyW1oKa.jpg So, from this view (for those with Google Earth or maps), you mean on the right side of that entrance to the bleachers, either directly below the circle or on the slope? https://earth.app.goo.gl/N8cJ1u https://goo.gl/maps/kk8jgKEDVwu (Tilt up, zoom in) This info about the bleachers and the work they did in that area doesn't affect a thing...nor does the slope to the right (E / NE) of the entrance to the bleachers? http://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2175#p142415

I really like the efforts being made by people here, but I'm still wondering why people are looking at National Park properties? With the whole city and potentially surrounding areas in SF, why this one National Park? Also, to me, this area is a lot like Jackson Square in NOLA. It is constantly mobbed with people and probably a police presence. While you just might have been able to dig a quick hole and toss a casque in back in 1981, I really doubt that the Authors would want people digging holes all over a National Park, possibly for hours at a time. While I don't like to compare the Chi-Cle puzzles to the rest, let's think about those guys for a minute. In Chicago they did multiple digs. In Cleveland, they dug for something like 8 hours. How does anyone rationalize being able to dig at the Martime Park without permission?

I really like the efforts being made by people here, but I 'm still wondering why people are looking at National Park properties? With the whole city and potentially surrounding areas in SF, why this one National Park? Also, to me, this area is a lot like Jackson Square in NOLA. It is constantly mobbed with people and probably a police presence. While you just might have been able to dig a quick hole and toss a casque in back in 1981, I really doubt that the Authors would want people digging holes all over a National Park, possibly for hours at a time. While I don't like to compare the Chi-Cle puzzles to the rest, let's think about those guys for a minute. In Chicago they did multiple digs. In Cleveland, they dug for something like 8 hours. How does anyone rationalize being able to dig at the Martime Park without permission?

gManTexas wrote:: I really like the efforts being made by people here, but I 'm still wondering why people are looking at National Park properties? With the whole city and potentially surrounding areas in SF, why this one National Park? Also, to me, this area is a lot like Jackson Square in NOLA. It is constantly mobbed with people and probably a police presence. While you just might have been able to dig a quick hole and toss a casque in back in 1981, I really doubt that the Authors would want people digging holes all over a National Park, possibly for hours at a time. While I don't like to compare the Chi-Cle puzzles to the rest, let's think about those guys for a minute. In Chicago they did multiple digs. In Cleveland, they dug for something like 8 hours. How does anyone rationalize being able to dig at the Martime Park without permission? I dunno.... I 'm guessing that they'll say that the National Maritime Park wasn't established until '88, so it's 'fair game': https://archive.org/details/AquaticParkAmphitheaterFocusedHSR/page/n9 To me, looks like all of those assets transferred in '78.

gManTexas wrote:: I really like the efforts being made by people here, but I'm still wondering why people are looking at National Park properties? With the whole city and potentially surrounding areas in SF, why this one National Park? Also, to me, this area is a lot like Jackson Square in NOLA. It is constantly mobbed with people and probably a police presence. While you just might have been able to dig a quick hole and toss a casque in back in 1981, I really doubt that the Authors would want people digging holes all over a National Park, possibly for hours at a time. While I don't like to compare the Chi-Cle puzzles to the rest, let's think about those guys for a minute. In Chicago they did multiple digs. In Cleveland, they dug for something like 8 hours. How does anyone rationalize being able to dig at the Martime Park without permission? I dunno....I'm guessing that they'll say that the National Maritime Park wasn't established until '88, so it's 'fair game': https://archive.org/details/AquaticParkAmphitheaterFocusedHSR/page/n9 To me, looks like all of those assets transferred in '78.

Does anyone know what this building is and when it was demolished?

Choice wrote:: Does anyone know what this building is and when it whttps://s-hdnux-com.cdn.ampproject.org ... x250.jpgas demolished? I think it might be St Peter and St Paul’s on Washington Square.

Choice wrote:: Does anyone know what this building is and when it whttps://s-hdnux-com.cdn.ampproject.org ... x250.jpgas demolished? I think it might be St Peter and St Paul’s on Washington Square.

I meant the building with yellow box around it.

I meant the building with yellow box around it.

Choice, looks like it was / is Garfield Elementary at Filbert and Kearny https://fernhilltoursdotcom.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/school-alley-the-early-history- of -garfield-elementary/ Haven't found any info about when the building or facade changed from this: https://fernhilltoursdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/garfield-school-20th-century.png (Rviewer1, you have to view the entire image that Choice posted, to see the right side and the building Choice circled..long press or right click, chose view image.....)

Choice, looks like it was / is Garfield Elementary at Filbert and Kearny https://fernhilltoursdotcom.wordpress.com/2015/11/19/school-alley-the-early-history-of-garfield-elementary/ Haven't found any info about when the building or facade changed from this: https://fernhilltoursdotcom.files.wordpress.com/2015/11/garfield-school-20th-century.png (Rviewer1, you have to view the entire image that Choice posted, to see the right side and the building Choice circled..long press or right click, chose view image.....)

Thanks ez.

Durian wrote:: According to Wikipedia: " Today's San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park was authorized in 1988... " Parts of the park remained in city hands—Victorian Park and the cable car turnaround. Maybe this is my bad, but I wasn't even aware it belonged to the NPS until I started the hunt.... Mister EZ wrote:: I dunno....I'm guessing that they'll say that the National Maritime Park wasn't established until '88, so it's 'fair game': https://archive.org/details/AquaticParkAmphitheaterFocusedHSR/page/n9 To me, looks like all of those assets transferred in '78. Yes, thanks for confirming that as a reason for why some people still consider the old Aquatic Park area (including the area by the museum and the bleachers), despite that document that shows that the specific assets were transferred in '78 to the GGNRA, Durian. Edit: Here's something that's interesting.....the wiki does say " Today's San Francisco Maritime National Historical Park was authorized in 1988... ". https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Francisco_Maritime_National_Historical_Park But, selectively pulling that out, ignores the sentence that's written immediately before it. ....however the former 1951 name changed in 1978 when the collections were acquired by the National Park Service."

Durian wrote:: I wouldn't say I'm considering AP "despite" the fact it's federal. I'm considering it because IMO that's where the clues lead. Personally, I'm not entirely sure Preiss realized it was federal land, or even if he cared. There is no prohibition in the book against federal parks. And I'd guess (don't know for sure) that various non-federal government entities (cities, counties, states) have rules/legislation prohibiting activities he engaged in, i.e. disturbing/defacing public property, impersonating government officials, etc. I'd imagine he technically probably violated multiple codes by burying stuff all across the country without permission... So I'm not sure the fact that AP was federal property and there are statutes prohibiting digging there would have even made him think twice, to be honest. It's interesting to me that one of the verses specifically tells you to get permission. It's not a leap to say that by implication, Preiss might not have believed the other spots required permission, or that if he did believe so, he cared. Seems to me The Secret was published by Preiss under the assumption that either no permission was needed for digging holes on publicly owned lands, or it was a formality he and his readers could ignore—whether the land was federal or not. So I'm operating under the assumption that on some level he cared more about his readers disturbing flower beds than whether they needed permission to dig around in public spaces. It's an interesting thing to think about... It bothers me when people assume to know what BP was like or what his ethical characteristics were. This just seems like an answer to justify your particular theory on where you believe the casque was buried. At face value, being very well educated, one would deduce that he was actually very methodical, especially given that he was a publisher. And that is not trying to read the tea leaves of BP's personality.

Actually, Durian, I was going to point out the same things... The 'rules' don't say that he didn't bury these on Federal land. He might not have realized that San Francisco Maritime park was federalised in '78. I'm not sure that his 'love of nature' took precedence over his desire to make money and avoid being sued. Times were different in the late '70's, early '80's....people (and, therefore governments) werent rabidly protective (except for vandalism) about parks, Federal or otherwise. The possibility of terrorism hitting locally wasn't a concern (despite the Iran hostage crisis and despite the '72 Munich Olympics)....so, security was casual....everywhere. I've often read here (and elsewhere) opinions that state he absolutely, positively, wouldn't have buried something on federal land, back then, because he absolutely, positively, would have known that it was a federal offence that would have landed him (and, searchers) in jail. Really? He knew that, back then? And, he knew which locations were absolutely, positively off-limits? This may be posted here on Q4T(or elsewhere), but.....has any of the older searchers received correspondence from Preiss before he died or is there an article where he stated that none of the casques are on Federal land? If not, then why exclude that as a possibility, just because that wouldn't occur in this day and age? Instead, I think that foot traffic / busy, public places, would dictate a burial spot and whether he would have avoided a spot. (imho)

gManTexas wrote:: It bothers me when people assume to know what BP was like or what his ethical characteristics were. This just seems like an answer to justify your particular theory on where you believe the casque was buried. At face value, being very well educated, one would deduce that he was actually very methodical, especially given that he was a publisher. And that is not trying to read the tea leaves of BP's personality. Sorry Gman, but I find that to be ironic. (I know many well educated individuals who are anything but methodical, instead, taking things for granted in a very lackadaisical manner. We've never met him, so assuming that he was 'perfect', just because he was educated, seems like a way to justify a particular theory and preconceived notion about what he would or wouldn't do....)

Mister EZ wrote:: ...just because he was educated, seems like a way to justify a particular theory and preconceived notion about what he would or wouldn't do....) Not sure I follow you here, but like you said, I think we should not try to assume what he was thinking or what he would do. My statement was more general. Direct evidence from the book is that these puzzles were very well thought out, even if the clues themselves leave something to be desired.

MrBackstop wrote:: Here is my updated location for San Francisco. It is a matter of feet from Durian's target which I also see as a viable location. The farthest East entrance to the Bleachers (Giant Step) is the key. On the left hand side, under the decorative circle entrance, below the 4th or 5th vertical line is the casque's location. Here is the visual: Wow! I love your visual graphic set up your solve. I wish I had the capability to do something like this. Great Job.

drunknerds wrote:: Interesting note, meatypuffs, I'll check that out. I always thought it weird that people would flip the image, when it already aligns with the park. When you overlay it normally, guess where she's pointing: 37th street and Fulton. That's exactly where the senior center is. If you flip it, her index finger on her other hand is still pointing to 37th and Fulton. I am still trying to figure out how this site works. I want this image drunknerds posted back in February. If it does I will be happy. I have photos of my own of the Senior Center but I can't post them. How do I get access to do that? I sure some of you know. I took this set of images and compared it to my beginning thoughts on a solve. I will not post this to the thread and see if it posts at the current thread end.

drunknerds wrote:: Interesting note, meatypuffs, I'll check that out. I always thought it weird that people would flip the image, when it already aligns with the park. When you overlay it normally, guess where she's pointing: 37th street and Fulton. That's exactly where the senior center is. If you flip it, her index finger on her other hand is still pointing to 37th and Fulton. I am still trying to figure out how this site works. I want this image drunknerds posted back in February. If it does I will be happy. I have photos of my own of the Senior Center but I can't post them. How do I get access to do that? I sure some of you know. I took this set of images and compared it to my beginning thoughts on a solve. I will not post this to the thread and see if it posts at the current thread end.

prospector wrote:: I am still trying to figure out how this site works. I want this image drunknerds posted back in February. If it does I will be happy. I have photos of my own of the Senior Center but I can't post them. How do I get access to do that? I sure some of you know. I took this set of images and compared it to my beginning thoughts on a solve. I will not post this to the thread and see if it posts at the current thread end. If you want the image someone posted, right click on the image and then you should be able to download or save to your computer or phone. Next, if you want to post an image, it's a little bit of work. You cannot directly post because the site has exceeded it's storage limit. Probably a long time ago. You first have to sign up for an image hosting site or use a cloud service. Imgur is one you can use. Upload your image to the site and leave the window open. Come back here and start a post. When it is time to insert your image, go back to the hosting site and copy the link to the image. Then you can post the link to the image (hosted on another site) within your text here. You may or may not have to use the img tags around the link to the image. There is button above the text writing box you use for posting. I know, it is convoluted but the people that run this site must not want to pay for a gazillion terabytes of storage. Let us know if you need more help.

prospector wrote:: I am still trying to figure out how this site works. I want this image drunknerds posted back in February. If it does I will be happy. I have photos of my own of the Senior Center but I can't post them. How do I get access to do that? I sure some of you know. I took this set of images and compared it to my beginning thoughts on a solve. I will not post this to the thread and see if it posts at the current thread end. If you want the image someone posted, right click on the image and then you should be able to download or save to your computer or phone. Next, if you want to post an image, it's a little bit of work. You cannot directly post because the site has exceeded it's storage limit. Probably a long time ago. You first have to sign up for an image hosting site or use a cloud service. Imgur is one you can use. Upload your image to the site and leave the window open. Come back here and start a post. When it is time to insert your image, go back to the hosting site and copy the link to the image. Then you can post the link to the image (hosted on another site) within your text here. You may or may not have to use the img tags around the link to the image. There is button above the text writing box you use for posting. I know, it is convoluted but the people that run this site must not want to pay for a gazillion terabytes of storage. Let us know if you need more help.

Durian wrote:: For the record, I wasn't trying to imply that BP was acting in any way unethically. I certainly don't believe he did anything unethical. I believe you. I know that these puzzles can be maddening. Let's look at some of the other casque locations, and some strong contenders for remaining locations. 1. Chicago - public park. The casque was away from the high traffic areas, in a corner behind the cover of trees. 2. Cleveland - public park. Behind a wall and more or less hidden from view. Potentially very little foot traffic. 3. Milwaukee - public park. Next to a statue and tucked away since the lighthouse was not inhabited or functional at the time. Low foot traffic. 4. Charleston - public park. If anyone agrees that the casque was buried in Hampton Park, it is a quiet park with ample trees and cover. It was relatively run down in 1982, with declining foot traffic. 5. Montreal - public park/area. If anyone believes that the casque was buried on Mount Royal, it is well traveled but completely covered with trees and foliage. This puzzle says to ask permission to dig out. I believe there is a consistent pattern of publicly accessible, yet out of the way locations where the casques were buried. There was some amount of risk in burying these, and hopefully some thought regarding the readers having to dig them up. I think Maritime Park in SF is just too risky and busy. I have not been there in many years, but I would imagine it is still mobbed with people every day. With so many other places in SF, like GGP, Coit Tower, LOH, Sutro Heights area... why would anyone choose the most touristy and heavily visited area? I just don't see it, even if the clues fit.

gManTexas wrote:: If you want the image someone posted, right click on the image and then you should be able to download or save to your computer or phone. Next, if you want to post an image, it's a little bit of work. You cannot directly post because the site has exceeded it's storage limit. Probably a long time ago. You first have to sign up for an image hosting site or use a cloud service. Imgur is one you can use. Upload your image to the site and leave the window open. Come back here and start a post. When it is time to insert your image, go back to the hosting site and copy the link to the image. Then you can post the link to the image (hosted on another site) within your text here. You may or may not have to use the img tags around the link to the image. There is button above the text writing box you use for posting. I know, it is convoluted but the people that run this site must not want to pay for a gazillion terabytes of storage. Let us know if you need more help. Thanks Gman, I looked up Imgur and try using that.

Durian, I guess the only way we will know is if, big if, someone pulls the casque out of the ground. I do agree with people that things were way more laid back in 1982. Not sure if I'll ever make it back to SF, but I'm hoping some of the searchers out there can probe and dig, and fingers crossed, #3 will be found.

https://i.imgur.com/txpOSEf.jpg Let's see if this works

prospector wrote:: https://i.imgur.com/txpOSEf.jpg Let's see if this works I signed up for imgur to start posting my photos. Here is the first on from the Senior Center on 37th and Fulton. I really looks like the image of the dragon on the front of the dress of Image one. I have written some more on this but I couldn't get it to post. I will try again tomorrow. I'm out for now.

prospector wrote:: https://i.imgur.com/txpOSEf.jpg Let's see if this works I signed up for imgur to start posting my photos. Here is the first on from the Senior Center on 37th and Fulton. I really looks like the image of the dragon on the front of the dress of Image one. I have written some more on this but I couldn't get it to post. I will try again tomorrow. I'm out for now.

prospector wrote:: I signed up for imgur to start posting my photos. Here is the first on from the Senior Center on 37th and Fulton. I really looks like the image of the dragon on the front of the dress of Image one. I have written some more on this but I couldn't get it to post. I will try again tomorrow. I'm out for now. If you search the thread, Goonie68 found the pheonix/dragon a while back and we talked about for a long time. A lot of info already posted.

prospector wrote:: I signed up for imgur to start posting my photos. Here is the first on from the Senior Center on 37th and Fulton. I really looks like the image of the dragon on the front of the dress of Image one. I have written some more on this but I couldn't get it to post. I will try again tomorrow. I'm out for now. If you search the thread, Goonie68 found the pheonix/dragon a while back and we talked about for a long time. A lot of info already posted.

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=senior&start=1095 viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=senior&start=493

viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit= senior &start=1095 viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit= senior &start=493

For some reason an earlier post I had written didn't go through. I appreciate what others have written, all the images and discussion I've read pertaining to the Senior Center entry point. I will try to locate the ideas I had written and post them tomorrow

Mister EZ wrote:: So, from this view (for those with Google Earth or maps), you mean on the right side of that entrance to the bleachers, either directly below the circle or on the slope? https://earth.app.goo.gl/N8cJ1u https://goo.gl/maps/kk8jgKEDVwu (Tilt up, zoom in) This info about the bleachers and the work they did in that area doesn't affect a thing...nor does the slope to the right (E / NE) of the entrance to the bleachers? http://quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2175#p142415 Actually I'm talking about the left side as you enter the bleachers (where I have the yellow and orange arrows pointing). The reason I have the left side is because it mimics the prison window pattern (hidden map). That dot at the bottom left on the window sill always interested me, it has to be there for a reason. If you are a foot or two away from the decorative circles on that wall, under that same bar in the window, that would be an excellent probe spot. Now, Malted Falcon has shared some great info on the 2009 repairs that took place to the bleachers and the museum. From what I've seen the basement does not go all the way over to the East Speaker tower and that Torre Pine. Someone might know better concerning the bleachers but I believe the area under it is mainly for museum storage. So even though much of the grounds were destroyed and rebuilt for the ceiling and skylights, I believe the area I'm targeting is still intact.

Well, the link to maskit's post that I included has this picture....with the speaker tower in the background. Looks like that's right in front of the area you're talking about: You can see the reverse side of the entrance, in the upper left of the picture.

gManTexas wrote:: I really like the efforts being made by people here, but I'm still wondering why people are looking at National Park properties? With the whole city and potentially surrounding areas in SF, why this one National Park? Also, to me, this area is a lot like Jackson Square in NOLA. It is constantly mobbed with people and probably a police presence. While you just might have been able to dig a quick hole and toss a casque in back in 1981, I really doubt that the Authors would want people digging holes all over a National Park, possibly for hours at a time. While I don't like to compare the Chi-Cle puzzles to the rest, let's think about those guys for a minute. In Chicago they did multiple digs. In Cleveland, they dug for something like 8 hours. How does anyone rationalize being able to dig at the Martime Park without permission? Understand, that even though it was given a National Park status in the 70s, it wasn't actually acted upon until '88 due to lack of funds or management. BP could have easily picked this park before all the National Park signage went up in the late 80s. As for me being here, it's simply because that's where the clues have led me. Durian and I have arrived almost at the same exact area but with different routes. If it turns out the casque was buried near the San Marco stone, then maybe it was removed in 2009 during the renovation, maybe not.

Yes, that's right up there on the left on the other side of the wall. I have not been able to find any photos showing that space between the wall and Pine during the renovation. What I have seen is the area to the West of the Speaker tower and up to the wall towards the museum all dug up for the new skylights.

prospector wrote:: Wow! I love your visual graphic set up your solve. I wish I had the capability to do something like this. Great Job. Thank you prospector. I might have to resize that, didn't notice it got clipped off in my haste when customers came in.

All of a sudden there is so much emphasis on dragon in this thread. This is an inherent problem with these puzzles; the clues are so vague they could point to practically every corner of the city. After all San Francisco is/was a major hub for Chinese immigration and Shanghai has been her sister city since 1979. Recently the discussions have been around 3 main solutions: Golden Gate Park, Ghirardelli/Maritime Park, and Pioneer Park, each with their own many final locations. This makes the thread too chaotic and creates friction and frustration to the point that some members rather create new thread to focus discussion. IMO the dragon shouldn’t be looked at ass an object but what it represents; it’s all twisty and made of blocks. Also what I come across repeatedly is curve/circle and number 6 together: • Clock face with time at 6 o’clock • Giant 6 in the middle part of the dragon that forms a big curve • Tail end of the dragon forms a curve/circle with Chinese 6 (六) showing in the bottom right corner of the frame • Halo around the pearl itself is a circle made of 6 separate curves I’ve been able to make sense of these curve/6 clues for a solution in Pioneer Park and not for any other location.

please explain, and what Verse/Verses should we use ?

Spiritr wrote:: please explain, and what Verse/Verses should we use ? And that's another problem. Some are on verse #7 camp, some on #10 and some on #5. That makes 9 different combinations, at least (3 verses and 3 macro location, at least). So for now I've paused matching the puzzle to any verse. I've been able to pinpoint a location with image clues alone. I've posted all my findings here previously. At this point after nearly 40 years I don't think there's any rush. I've volunteered Goonie to check out the location at his convenience and I'm sure he'll let us all know of his findings as long as he finds it prudent!

I want to plug Golden Gate Park as the park to dig in. It is Huge. Try walking it looking for clues. It is overwhelming. I have discovered some really cool places in this park since I have been studying the Secret. I know how frustrating things must be for people who have been on this site for years and see newbies like me come up with some sort of solve that may have been talked about numerous times before. The issue is not that it hasn’t been talked about before but, I believe, there was more to be revealed. I have tried to read as much of the thread on Image 1 and Verse 7 that I could and I made a tentative list of the digs people have tried over the years. I don’t have a completed solve but I do have a beginning path. I want to start at with entering Golden Gate Park at Fulton and 37th at the Senior Center. The number 37 is in the hair of the woman in image 1. I did start a post called Image 1/Verse 7 a few months ago. First of all I don't think the clues in the image lead to the Flagpole at the Senior Center. I do believe someone has dug there. I do think the image helps to determine the general location, City and Park. I believe, Image 1 leads to Golden Gate Park. The shape of the Dragon panel on the woman’s dress is close to the park's shape and the twists and turns in the image of the dragon’s tail give me the impression of all the twists and turns of the roads in the park. The following list is some of my findings: 1. I believe the Senior Center is the place of entrance to Golden Gate Park for my beginning solve. Look at the image of the dragon from the Senior Center’s front door. There was an image posted on this site by drunknerds (I think). Some of the reasons I believe this is a good point to enter the park has been posted and gone over in Q4T and (PBworks). I have read over a lot of what is available on this site after my read of the book and formulating my own ideas. It was so exciting to match up what I saw about the image and the findings of others from this site. 2. Heading from the Senior Center into the park over to 36th Ave from there I would follow it to JFK Drive. (I also see the image of JFK’s profile in the rock and I also believed that image looks a lot like Lincoln.) Lincoln Way hugs almost the entire length of Golden Gate Park. I think looking at these two streets was important to the general location of the Treasure. Also, the way her arms are crossed looks like the split road of JFK Drive at 36th Avenue and not Crossover Drive. I will go into that later. 3. I check the Latitude and Longitude of the numbers found in the image located on he front panel of the dress -- 37, 38 and 122 and 123. This is not new information I thought up -- it has been mulled over by other people posting to this site. I was hooked when I saw this. This Latitude and Longitude is the general area of SF. AND: 37.769470 Latitude and -122.494530 Longitudes is in Golden Gate Park. 4. I also flip the image of the map, cut it in half and realized it is not a linear map. I didn’t look at it any longer like a step by step translation. It is an artistic interpretation of the map. Nothing in this image is linear to me. I see the Stow Lake, Strawberry Hill reference in the image but I believe it is just to help hint at Golden Gate Park. Not digging there anytime soon or the Falls. Some have dug there. 5. The Gh on the neck line gives a hint of the Great Highway. (Just a note here, I am not local to San Francisco, I always thought the Great Highway was Highway 1 -- until I started doing this deep dark historical study of BP’s Treasure hunt and before I read all the posts about 19th Ave, I paired the “Aces High with the Gh in this image with verse.) Maybe that was a good thing. I don’t know if that makes sense. I hope it does. 6. At this point, I bought into many other important links posted by the great treasure hunters of Q4T like the rose, pearl, the clock/watch points to 6 like the 6 month of June and The Rock. 7. I also think the rocks in the image look like the rock formations out in the Pacific Ocean by the Cliff House. For some reason the images of the rocks in Image 1 give me the impression of all the cypress trees in Golden Gate Park. 8. The North lake on the map of Golden Gate Park looks like one of the hallowed out parts in the rocks from the image. 9. I also believe the line across the image behind the woman looks like it may be the Great Highway. There is also a horizontal line behind the set of foreground rocks as an end to the blue color which may represent water. I have written down a lot more about this image and before I even linked the verse with it so I could eliminate things that didn’t work. I am just getting started on my solve and it has proved to be really complicated because I can’t just brush aside things I see. The twists, turns and winding down the path to a solve takes time. There are so many details to iron out and clear up before I can put down a coherent group of thoughts to post. This is what I have so far but I did some research at the SF Library on Friday. This may or may not have helped. I hope this wasn’t too long and hard to follow.

prospector wrote:: I want to plug Golden Gate Park as the park to dig in. It is Huge. Try walking it looking for clues. It is overwhelming. I have discovered some really cool places in this park since I have been studying the Secret. I know how frustrating things must be for people who have been on this site for years and see newbies like me come up with some sort of solve that may have been talked about numerous times before. The issue is not that it hasn’t been talked about before but, I believe, there was more to be revealed. I have tried to read as much of the thread on Image 1 and Verse 7 that I could and I made a tentative list of the digs people have tried over the years. I don’t have a completed solve but I do have a beginning path. I want to start at with entering Golden Gate Park at Fulton and 37th at the Senior Center. First of all I don't think the clues in the image lead to the Flagpole at the Senior Center. I do believe someone has dug there. Yes they have ,it isn't/wasn;t by the flagpole at the senior center. which horizontal line are you talking about further down in your post? and I agree with almost every thing you said and totally do not believe it is GGpark, your mileage may vary.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Yes they have ,it isn't/wasn;t by the flagpole at the senior center. which horizontal line are you talking about further down in your post? and I agree with almost every thing you said and totally do not believe it is GGpark, your mileage may vary. Maltfalcon, If you look at image almost in the center of it behind the woman you can see a line cutting the image in half. I can see another line in the upper part of it behind the large rocks and in front of the rocks that seem in the distance. It is just not natural to an organic image. I think of all of this art work as stylized and evoking allusion; however, there is some of this image that is concrete. I am still working on it. Didn't you once think it was in Golden Gate Park but moved up the hill to the Legion of Honor? I have a really strong feeling it is in Golden Gate Park. But as it is always said "until it is dug up" anything goes.

I went to the flagpole with a friend while visiting SF this summer. He really wasn't into it, and was just along to hang out. I told him it was bulldozed and that if it was at the senior center we might find fragments of clay and plexiglass. We found a ton of plexiglass and fragments of white clay. His mind was blown and now he's into it. For the record, I don't think we found anything. I sent the clay pieces to George who said it didn't match casques. Also he mentioned finding plexiglass all over the country on his digs, in the podcast. Also none of the fragments had any telltale relief. It was super fun to see his mind blown, though. I don't think anyone's completely eliminated everywhere on the senior lawn, and it is still my favorite place due to the six image matches I see there. However, I really hope it's not there because there is zero indication where the "giant step" should be made in relation to the pole. I don't want to solve puzzles if they have super ambiguous dig spot references like that. Plus it got totally bulldozed and redone, so it's not going to be retrievable if it ever was there, most likely.

drunknerds wrote:: I don't think anyone's completely eliminated everywhere on the senior lawn, and it is still my favorite place due to the six image matches I see there. However, I really hope it's not there because there is zero indication where the "giant step" should be made in relation to the pole. I don't want to solve puzzles if they have super ambiguous dig spot references like that. Plus it got totally bulldozed and redone, so it's not going to be retrievable if it ever was there, most likely. I took the information on the hunt to the guys with the backhoe at the senior center and asked them to call me if they saw anything like the casque or pieces of the casque. offered to buy the crew beer, they loved the idea, but I never got a call and the entire lawn was removed. so it wasn't there.

prospector wrote:: I can see another line in the upper part of it behind the large rocks and in front of the rocks that seem in the distance. It is just not natural to an organic image. I think of all of this art work as stylized and evoking allusion; however, there is some of this image that is concrete. I am still working on it. Didn't you once think it was in Golden Gate Park but moved up the hill to the Legion of Honor? I have a really strong feeling it is in Golden Gate Park. But as it is always said "until it is dug up" anything goes. The upper line is a fold line where the painting was folded No I do not think the casque was ever moved, Just like I dont think the chicago casque was ever buried at the water tower, or the cleveland casque was ever buried at the transit building.

prospector wrote:: Didn't you once think it was in Golden Gate Park but moved up the hill to the Legion of Honor? I think prospector meant you changed your solve to L of H. from GGP. Next stop, China Beach?

Another perspective: Verse 7 Giant pole and Giant step may not be objects like big flag pole or big steps or a leap. Similar to "Running north, but first across" that describes the direction of a street, "Giant pole Giant step To the place" is giving us the name of a street to the place; where "giant pole giant step" is the name of the street. Just have to decipher it. For example, 2 Giant makes Giants, and pole step scrambled makes people St. Many possibilities. Have fun!

Choice wrote:: I think prospector meant you changed your solve to L of H. from GGP. Next stop, China Beach? Yes, I once thought Maltfalcon liked Golden Gate Park but I think there is more information being reveled to him at another location.

drunknerds wrote:: I went to the flagpole with a friend while visiting SF this summer. He really wasn't into it, and was just along to hang out. I told him it was bulldozed and that if it was at the senior center we might find fragments of clay and plexiglass. We found a ton of plexiglass and fragments of white clay. His mind was blown and now he's into it. For the record, I don't think we found anything. I sent the clay pieces to George who said it didn't match casques. Also he mentioned finding plexiglass all over the country on his digs, in the podcast. Also none of the fragments had any telltale relief. It was super fun to see his mind blown, though. I don't think anyone's completely eliminated everywhere on the senior lawn, and it is still my favorite place due to the six image matches I see there. However, I really hope it's not there because there is zero indication where the "giant step" should be made in relation to the pole. I don't want to solve puzzles if they have super ambiguous dig spot references like that. Plus it got totally bulldozed and redone, so it's not going to be retrievable if it ever was there, most likely. That must have been a kick. I don't see any reference to the "giant step" at that location either.

maltedfalcon wrote:: The upper line is a fold line where the painting was folded No I do not think the casque was ever moved, Just like I dont think the chicago casque was ever buried at the water tower, or the cleveland casque was ever buried at the transit building. My gosh the painting was folded? I think the paintings looked like they were redone by a graphic artist when added to the book for publication. I may be wrong but that is just a hunch I have at this point.

Also the painting is not plumb to the page of the book, maybe on purpose. So that it won't drive me crazy, I rotated the image one degree or so clockwise. https://imgur.com/bA2Gjt2 Or maybe it wasn't scanned straight.

The upper line is a fold line where the painting was folded [/quote] Hey Maltedfalcon, Do you mean the line at the top, through the rocks? How do you know it has been folded? If you look at the original painting, it's also there. (see image from the expedition unknown video at 25.45 minutes) It almost looks like it were two pieces of board/paper put together or something... like JJP started with a rectangular painting and decided he had to fit the moons and door in later or something... expedition unknown video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7pyMi9TiX8

Choice wrote:: Also the painting is not plumb to the page of the book, maybe on purpose. So that it won't drive me crazy, I rotated the image one degree or so clockwise. https://imgur.com/bA2Gjt2 Or maybe it wasn't scanned straight. I think it's scanning, mine is straight... I do have a difference in the images on the right page being a bit higher on the page than the left, but that's just an 80s printing/binding thing I think.

Choice wrote:: Also the painting is not plumb to the page of the book, maybe on purpose. So that it won't drive me crazy, I rotated the image one degree or so clockwise. https://imgur.com/bA2Gjt2 Or maybe it wasn't scanned straight. Thanks for posting this. It is a much better image than the one in the book. The printing in the book I have is dreadful.

You must have one of the new prints. I read the feedbacks and didn't get one. They're good only for the written parts. Original version still becomes available occasionally https://tinyurl.com/y7qkxkrn

mariska wrote:: The upper line is a fold line where the painting was folded Hey Maltedfalcon, Do you mean the line at the top, through the rocks? How do you know it has been folded? If you look at the original painting, it's also there. (see image from the expedition unknown video at 25.45 minutes) It almost looks like it were two pieces of board/paper put together or something... like JJP started with a rectangular painting and decided he had to fit the moons and door in later or something... expedition unknown video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7pyMi9TiX8 [/quote] Hey mariska, I can't open the youtube because it says the copyright is not valid or something like that. The line at the top is just the separation of the water-like part from the rocks. The center line shows up as a purposeful and intentional part of the image and not a fold.

Choice wrote:: You must have one of the new prints. I read the feedbacks and didn't get one. They're good only for the written parts. Original version still becomes available occasionally https://tinyurl.com/y7qkxkrn Yes, this new book is pretty much crap. I can't believe I bought it, but I just had to get it. The art work was so beautiful and I was hoping I was going to find something close to the original. I would love to find a first edition but I can't pay what people are asking on ebay etc. I don't think many were printed. I can see how much better the images look from the link you have posted.

prospector wrote:: The line at the top is just the separation of the water-like part from the rocks. The center line shows up as a purposeful and intentional part of the image and not a fold. Maltedfalcon means the fold shown by the red arrow that goes all the way across not the water line. https://imgur.com/8Qi91C4

Choice wrote:: Another perspective: Verse 7 Giant pole and Giant step may not be objects like big flag pole or big steps or a leap. Similar to "Running north, but first across" that describes the direction of a street, "Giant pole Giant step To the place" is giving us the name of a street to the place; where "giant pole giant step" is the name of the street. Just have to decipher it. For example, 2 Giant makes Giants, and pole step scrambled makes people St. Many possibilities. Have fun! Since I got crickets (as usual) I’ll expand on my thought: Giant Pole I’m looking for a street or location name. Something like St., Ave., Cl., BLVD, Pl. Pole contains P+L and also sound like Pl. Now a bit of scrabble work for the rest of the letters that would sound like Giant. I came up with Genoa, It. Put it all together and you get Genoa, It. Pl. Genoa, Italy is the birthplace of Columbus. At the foot of the Telegraph hill (Coit), across from the Garfield Elementary is Genoa Pl. https://tinyurl.com/ybxe5vwu

Choice wrote:: Maltedfalcon means the fold shown by the red arrow that goes all the way across not the water line. https://imgur.com/8Qi91C4 Hey, Thanks Ok, That may be a fold or some sort of imperfection. I have no guess on what that is.

Choice, try applying it with the Japanese hints, maybe it'll help

whatever that line is,

Choise: I have the original, not the new print (I agree on that one being only good for the story, not the images), and I even measured it to be sure, mine is straight on the page. So I don't think there's any meaning in it... sorry. Maybe someone can double check for you ? Thank you Spiritr for the picture, That's the line I meant as well. glad to hear we're all talking about the same line (sorry the youtube link didn't work. probably only works in europe...) Maltedfalcon: you say it is folded, did someone tell you, or was it mentioned somewhere or is it a theory? It would be cool if it was folded (like those fold-in MAD covers). I've tried 'digitally' fold it onto the other lines, but I'm not getting anything interesting though... I was hoping to find a new shape that would lead us somewhere.. (if it's painted on board, that woud not fold very well, he could still have made the line there on purpose though, to make us fold the printed version) It could also be a later add-on, which would explain it being so different in shape from the rest. If the picture had stopped at the line, it would have made more sense size wise (although still narrow compared to the rest). But I'm wondering if the line would have been visible after being painted over... Does anyone have information about the material these were painted on (paper/board/canvas?) and what paint JJP used for these (oil/acrylic?) ? It looks like acrylic on board to me (like he usually uses, most paintings in his book Origins are ) ... Either way the line is there, not just in the print.

Spiritr wrote:: whatever that line is, Has anyone else noticed in the SF image where the dragons head should be there is a large profile of a man's head looking to the left side of the image?

Spiritr wrote:: Choice, try applying it with the Japanese hints, maybe it'll help Which Japanese hint specifically are you referring to? The chicken thing? That would toss us back to GGP. There still isn't a consensus on which verse to use with image 1.

Choice wrote:: Which Japanese hint specifically are you referring to? The chicken thing? That would toss us back to GGP. There still isn't a consensus on which verse to use with image 1. Carefully read everything one more time, I'm sure you can figure it out . Oh, btw, if you like Japanese cuisine, have you ever tried their Curry dishes? next time if you're having Japanese food, see if they have this one on their menu Chicken 그囗У木"

Don't have patience for games

Spiritr wrote:: whatever that line is, It looks like the Image 1 painting is behind glass in its frame and matting (with the top curve, that's not a cheap framing job, either). The dark line could a picture rail molding on the wall of JJP's studio, behind the camera position. Note that there is no reflection on the unframed image to the right of the Image 1 painting.

Kalessin wrote:: It looks like the Image 1 painting is behind glass in its frame and matting (with the top curve, that's not a cheap framing job, either). The dark line could a picture rail molding on the wall of JJP's studio, behind the camera position. Note that there is no reflection on the unframed image to the right of the Image 1 painting. Spiritr wrote:: Chicken 그囗У木" Choice wrote:: Original version still becomes available occasionally https://tinyurl.com/y7qkxkrn I think the framing was done well after the photo was taken for the book. Notice there's a line frame around the painting in the book that is most likely under the matting. Unless it was added graphically later. I think if it was done on canvas, it was stretched improperly, perhaps overstretched at that area. Also again it looks to me like it's not standing straight compared to the frame. Need to rotate that too! Chicken = pollo, reads like polo (field in GGP) meaning pole This one is a bit beat up but Spiritr might want it!

Choice wrote:: Another perspective: Verse 7 Giant pole and Giant step may not be objects like big flag pole or big steps or a leap. Similar to "Running north, but first across" that describes the direction of a street, "Giant pole Giant step To the place" is giving us the name of a street to the place; where "giant pole giant step" is the name of the street. Just have to decipher it. For example, 2 Giant makes Giants, and pole step scrambled makes people St. Many possibilities. Have fun! I like your thinking Choice. When trying to decipher some of the words in the verses I think there are words used with more than the obvious definition and sometimes we need look at other definitions of words....noun, verb, adjective. When I looked at this part of the Verse specifically I noticed that the word "place" also means "seat". My spot at Aquatic Park is that far East entrance before you enter down into the East Bleachers (Giant Step), which are seats. This was one of the clues that helped solidify my solves for Image 1.

Choice wrote:: Another perspective: Verse 7 Giant pole and Giant step may not be objects like big flag pole or big steps or a leap. Similar to " Running north, but first across" that describes the direction of a street, "Giant pole Giant step To the place" is giving us the name of a street to the place; where "giant pole giant step" is the name of the street. Just have to decipher it. For example, 2 Giant makes Giants, and pole step scrambled makes people St. Many possibilities. Have fun! I like your thinking Choice. When trying to decipher some of the words in the verses I think there are words used with more than the obvious definition and sometimes we need look at other definitions of words....noun, verb, adjective. When I looked at this part of the Verse specifically I noticed that the word "place" also means "seat". My spot at Aquatic Park is that far East entrance before you enter down into the East Bleachers (Giant Step), which are seats. This was one of the clues that helped solidify my solves for Image 1.

Spiritr wrote:: Oh, btw, if you like Japanese cuisine, have you ever tried their Curry dishes? next time if you're having Japanese food, see if they have this one on their menu Chicken 그囗У木" I don't care for Japanese food. Love Chinese tho. When I was a kid I wanted to open a Chinese restaurant in NYC and call it "I'm wokin hea" But I couldn't cook!

LOL did you know the word "hea" means "careless" and "perfunctory" in Chinese?

Did anyone in this forum buy this book? https://tinyurl.com/y8tjs7xw

Choice wrote:: I think the framing was done well after the photo was taken for the book. Notice there's a line frame around the painting in the book that is most likely under the matting. Unless it was added graphically later. I think if it was done on canvas, it was stretched improperly, perhaps overstretched at that area. Also again it looks to me like it's not standing straight compared to the frame. Need to rotate that too! Hey, JJP? Your paintings are great and all, but we need to have a serious conversation about your choice in framing shops.

I wish we had a way of polling the members and get their opinion on which verse belongs to image 1. I'm curious to know if there's a majority consensus. The reversed Gh is the clue to the verse. It tells you the number of lines in the verse and the direction the verse should be read. I think Hunter23 has similar idea with a twist. Posted in verse 7 thread.

Goldengate wrote:: ... I like Joan of Arc, and the look of the columns in the building in relationship to the barred window, but again just speaking for myself, can't reconcile that as a whole. I do see reference to Joan of Arc on the rocks below barred gate, but may be hint only to the arc part i.e. curve or arch. Tons of clues for that solution. Will slap some graphics together after lunch break!

I believe that if there are outlines like these of buildings or statues etc. that they should be seen in that perspective from the dig-spot. (unless they are too obviously just referring to a landmark, like the watertower in chicago, or lines in the shape of rivers etc) If that would be so, do you believe the dig spot should be somewhere near pier 43 in that perspective? I've made an image of the area and the yellow color roughly representing the 'area of interest'. But doesn't seem possible to dig anywhere... not even in the 80s, if you see the '87 google earth image on the left.

Just trying to make sense of the Image 1 clues and post what I observe or connect. It's relevance or intent is for you to decide. If I may make another observation: If one considers the barred gate being Alcatraz, then it's position to the Ferry Arch is near perfect mirror. Perhaps we should mirror the whole thing? Also if I understand it right, JP was given a stack of Polaroids and maps and free rein to paint an image. How does one come to the conclusion that the angle of landmarks must be the POV of the dig site?

Just want to let people know there is a 1982 first edition Secret book for sale for $500 on Amazon.

$470 too much for my budget!

I've always been wondering about that man in the mountains... It's been the first thing that I noticed looking at this picture. A little while ago I was going over the Cleveland find and thought I'd explore the other cultural gardens a bit more. And realized that the statues there obviously would represent the most 'logical' people of those countries to include in a puzzle. So for China that would be Confucius... Ever since I've seen the man as Confucius, what do you think ? “When a wise man points at the moon the idiot looks at the finger.” ― Confucius

He who runs in front of the bus gets "tired", and the one who runs after it gets "exhausted". I do like the resemblance a lot, however it looks like the bow on his sash (or his hands) form a lotus that's commonly associated with Buddha. Or it may be a lion or foo dog paw, similar to the ones at the Dragon's Gate. Notice one of the nails is broken. Is there a statue with damaged toe?

prospector wrote:: That is one long url. I couldn't open it. Do you have a graphic that points to what you are talking about. I like what you are saying. I can see a similar figure in the rocks, but I'm not sure I am seeing the same thing. This better ? https://tinyurl.com/y9zy5lv6

Choice wrote:: He who runs in front of the bus gets "tired", and the one who runs after it gets "exhausted". I do like the resemblance a lot, however it looks like the bow on his sash (or his hands) form a lotus that's commonly associated with Buddha. Or it may be a lion or foo dog paw, similar to the ones at the Dragon's Gate. Notice one of the nails is broken. Is there a statue with damaged toe? yeah you're right is does look like a bit like a paw (with one toe, pointing at a fold ?) , you mean this one on the gate? I also think the black straight line above the 'paw' and the shoulder part are strangely shaped... no idea what that means. I was kinda hoping for a statue of Confucius in San Francisco being an exact match for the man in the mountain ... wishful thinking ...

Choice Great find with that angle of the top rock and Pier 43. Also like what you've come up with as far as the square and triangle being 4 sides and 3 sides for 43. mariska I believe a lot of the clues can be seen from the dig spot itself but some are also waymarkers getting you to the spot without being able to see it necessarily. I see Pier 43 as the starting point to this puzzle. Other clues that members have found help put the puzzles pieces together with the Verse.

https://archive.org/details/SanFrancisco1955CinemascopeFilm San Francisco (1955 Cinemascope film) Love seeing the classic cars.

Harley Quinn wrote:: https://archive.org/details/SanFrancisco1955CinemascopeFilm San Francisco (1955 Cinemascope film) Love seeing the classic cars. Thanks for sharing the old film. I was quite amused. Notice the population in the '50s

This is a cool picture. It looks like the mermaid is holding the cask!

mariska wrote:: I was kinda hoping for a statue of Confucius in San Francisco being an exact match for the man in the mountain ... wishful thinking ... There's always the fortune teller on Grant. No clue how old it is tho. Also may consider statue of Sun Yat-Sen in St. Mary's Square, one block away from Dragon's Gate. Note the crack in the middle you pointed out earlier.

mariska wrote:: I was kinda hoping for a statue of Confucius in San Francisco being an exact match for the man in the mountain ... wishful thinking ... There's always the fortune teller on Grant. No clue how old it is tho. Also may consider statue of Sun Yat-Sen in St. Mary's Square, one block away from Dragon's Gate. Note the crack in the middle you pointed out earlier.

Choice wrote:: Also may consider statue of Sun Yat-Sen in St. Mary's Square, one block away from Dragon's Gate. Note the crack in the middle you pointed out earlier. Yes I like that one as a possibility as well, it has the folded hands (also pointing at the fold) and a similar facial expression.

Choice wrote:: Also may consider statue of Sun Yat-Sen in St. Mary's Square, one block away from Dragon's Gate. Note the crack in the middle you pointed out earlier. Yes I like that one as a possibility as well, it has the folded hands (also pointing at the fold) and a similar facial expression.

Here's an interesting flour sack towel design:

maltedfalcon wrote:: I took the information on the hunt to the guys with the backhoe at the senior center and asked them to call me if they saw anything like the casque or pieces of the casque. offered to buy the crew beer, they loved the idea, but I never got a call and the entire lawn was removed. so it wasn't there. Seriously, I LOVE that you did this, I learned a lot by watching how you recruit people to help you, it's so cool. But, again, we found a bunch of plexiglass and weird clay pieces that definitely resembled those found in Zinn's casque sitting right on top of the post-bulldozed-and-reset ground So... do you think the construction crew didn't see those or...?

maltedfalcon wrote:: I took the information on the hunt to the guys with the backhoe at the senior center and asked them to call me if they saw anything like the casque or pieces of the casque. offered to buy the crew beer, they loved the idea, but I never got a call and the entire lawn was removed. so it wasn't there. Seriously, I LOVE that you did this, I learned a lot by watching how you recruit people to help you, it's so cool. But, again, we found a bunch of plexiglass and weird clay pieces that definitely resembled those found in Zinn's casque sitting right on top of the post-bulldozed-and-reset ground So... do you think the construction crew didn't see those or...?

I think he should've offered them beer AND salami sandwich

I think he should've offered them beer AND salami sandwich

That's too bad Durian. I was hoping you could probe and put the whole thing to rest. You can always concentrate on the Russian Hill Park area. Got a nice view of your area.

That's too bad Durian. I was hoping you could probe and put the whole thing to rest. You can always concentrate on the Russian Hill Park area. Got a nice view of your area.

Goldengate wrote:: Here's one more snapshot of a fold-out post card map -- this one is from the 70s. I think this, along with postcards from gift shops is exactly the kind of ephemera BP would have sent JJP to work from (along with notes and Polaroids) when creating the images... Goldengate, That’s a good map but it blurs when I zoom in. I have been looking over maps and locations. There is a lot to like with the Chinese Pavilion on Stow Lake. To me this puzzle hinges on the object of Twain’s attention. Even though you could point to a paddle boat as being that object. I ’m not feeling good about that or the pavilion itself as being the object. For me it has to really have been an important object that says here I am. Shakespeare works. Joan de Arc does. Books he’s written and places he has worked and lived. I have not been to the pavilion. From the pavilion what are the site confirmers that can be seen. I like that it is a moon pavilion and that bridge could be a gian step. I have been trying to count onjects at and around the pavilion to come up with the number 11. Would you feel good with putting an X around the bridge or palm tree? I ’m starting to look at the verses in a different way. In other words only as visual confirmers and not necessarily in a linear manner. I keep coming back to the word Giant. I don’t think it is literal. I think it is a nod to the San Francisco Giants. So it could be taken. Pole and Step. But with my non linear route for me the treasure is going to be at the object of Twain’s attention.

Goldengate wrote:: Here's one more snapshot of a fold-out post card map -- this one is from the 70s. I think this, along with postcards from gift shops is exactly the kind of ephemera BP would have sent JJP to work from (along with notes and Polaroids) when creating the images... Goldengate, That’s a good map but it blurs when I zoom in. I have been looking over maps and locations. There is a lot to like with the Chinese Pavilion on Stow Lake. To me this puzzle hinges on the object of Twain’s attention. Even though you could point to a paddle boat as being that object. I’m not feeling good about that or the pavilion itself as being the object. For me it has to really have been an important object that says here I am. Shakespeare works. Joan de Arc does. Books he’s written and places he has worked and lived. I have not been to the pavilion. From the pavilion what are the site confirmers that can be seen. I like that it is a moon pavilion and that bridge could be a gian step. I have been trying to count onjects at and around the pavilion to come up with the number 11. Would you feel good with putting an X around the bridge or palm tree? I’m starting to look at the verses in a different way. In other words only as visual confirmers and not necessarily in a linear manner. I keep coming back to the word Giant. I don’t think it is literal. I think it is a nod to the San Francisco Giants. So it could be taken. Pole and Step. But with my non linear route for me the treasure is going to be at the object of Twain’s attention.

drunknerds wrote:: ...we found a bunch of plexiglass and weird clay pieces that definitely resembled those found in Zinn's casque sitting right on top of the post-bulldozed-and-reset ground... Did I miss the full report on this find? Did you gather pieces? Plexiglass is probably too generic to compare to other plastic samples, but the pottery could be analyzed. Did you post any photos of these artifacts?

drunknerds wrote:: ...we found a bunch of plexiglass and weird clay pieces that definitely resembled those found in Zinn's casque sitting right on top of the post-bulldozed-and-reset ground... Did I miss the full report on this find? Did you gather pieces? Plexiglass is probably too generic to compare to other plastic samples, but the pottery could be analyzed. Did you post any photos of these artifacts?

Finding plastic and ceramic pieces sitting near surface is problematic. I find those all the time in my vegetable garden. Certain birds i .e. blue jays tend to find and then hide their finds in soft dirt instinctively.

Finding plastic and ceramic pieces sitting near surface is problematic. I find those all the time in my vegetable garden. Certain birds i.e. blue jays tend to find and then hide their finds in soft dirt instinctively.

Rviewer1 wrote:: I ’m starting to look at the verses in a different way. In other words only as visual confirmers and not necessarily in a linear manner. I keep coming back to the word Giant. I don’t think it is literal. I think it is a nod to the San Francisco Giants. So it could be taken. Pole and Step. But with my non linear route for me the treasure is going to be at the object of Twain’s attention. If you insist on GGP then maybe you should consider "Giant pole" as "Large polo" field and Giant "step" as horseshoe. This was suggested 12 yrs or so ago that may deserve a second look. http://silverinsf.blogspot.com/2011/03/ ... -pits.html https://livingnewdeal.org/projects/gold ... ncisco-ca/ I know the pits are completely across the park but that's all I could come up with!

Rviewer1 wrote:: I’m starting to look at the verses in a different way. In other words only as visual confirmers and not necessarily in a linear manner. I keep coming back to the word Giant. I don’t think it is literal. I think it is a nod to the San Francisco Giants. So it could be taken. Pole and Step. But with my non linear route for me the treasure is going to be at the object of Twain’s attention. If you insist on GGP then maybe you should consider "Giant pole" as "Large polo" field and Giant "step" as horseshoe. This was suggested 12 yrs or so ago that may deserve a second look. http://silverinsf.blogspot.com/2011/03/ ... -pits.html https://livingnewdeal.org/projects/gold ... ncisco-ca/ I know the pits are completely across the park but that's all I could come up with!

mariska wrote:: ... it has the folded hands (also pointing at the fold) and a similar facial expression. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=535

Choice wrote:: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=535 Yes I 've read that, I meant compared to the man in the mountain though, not the women... still would put you in the same area...

Choice wrote:: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=535 Yes I've read that, I meant compared to the man in the mountain though, not the women... still would put you in the same area...

Durian wrote:: ... So my hunt for the casque has essentially ended. It's been fun though. Good luck to everyone with their solves! So to throw some fuel on fire! Using the hypothesis that the verse should be read backwards, Stonewall's door is the destination. Looking at the painting, the stonewall is the dragon made of stone blocks. So it's door wide open is it's mouth. Coit used to be the observation post for the bay with the semaphore. Eyes are window to your soul. It's head looks like a VW bug, window and all. Unless you remove the top part of it's head then it looks like a bullet train!

Durian wrote:: ... So my hunt for the casque has essentially ended. It's been fun though. Good luck to everyone with their solves! So to throw some fuel on fire! Using the hypothesis that the verse should be read backwards, Stonewall's door is the destination. Looking at the painting, the stonewall is the dragon made of stone blocks. So it's door wide open is it's mouth. Coit used to be the observation post for the bay with the semaphore. Eyes are window to your soul. It's head looks like a VW bug, window and all. Unless you remove the top part of it's head then it looks like a bullet train!

Choice wrote:: If you insist on GGP then maybe you should consider "Giant pole" as "Large polo" field and Giant "step" as horseshoe. This was suggested 12 yrs or so ago that may deserve a second look. http://silverinsf.blogspot.com/2011/03/ ... -pits.html https://livingnewdeal.org/projects/gold ... ncisco-ca/ I know the pits are completely across the park but that's all I could come up with! Thanks Choice

Choice wrote:: If you insist on GGP then maybe you should consider "Giant pole" as "Large polo" field and Giant "step" as horseshoe. This was suggested 12 yrs or so ago that may deserve a second look. http://silverinsf.blogspot.com/2011/03/ ... -pits.html https://livingnewdeal.org/projects/gold ... ncisco-ca/ I know the pits are completely across the park but that's all I could come up with! Thanks Choice

Another interpretation of "sweet smell": Sweet!... Right on the nose! Is that a pearl on dragon's nose or a pimple?!

Another interpretation of "sweet smell": Sweet!... Right on the nose! Is that a pearl on dragon's nose or a pimple?!

Choice wrote:: Another interpretation of "sweet smell": Sweet!... Right on the nose! Is that a pearl on dragon's nose or a pimple?! its a scan artifact. It's not in the actual book.

Choice wrote:: Another interpretation of "sweet smell": Sweet!... Right on the nose! Is that a pearl on dragon's nose or a pimple?! its a scan artifact. It's not in the actual book.

Must be a bogus scan someone sent me. I wish someone could take a good iphone picture on tripod