Quest4Treasure Archives

Must be a bogus scan someone sent me. I wish someone could take a good iphone picture on tripod

Goldengate wrote:: There have been several high res scans of the book that have been made public. None are perfect... but if you compare and contrast them, it may help to make out the scanning artifacts that aren't in the book. I was using one of those hi-res. images and I was told by Mr. "someone" that my scan was crap, so I used his!

Goldengate wrote:: There have been several high res scans of the book that have been made public. None are perfect... but if you compare and contrast them, it may help to make out the scanning artifacts that aren't in the book. I was using one of those hi-res. images and I was told by Mr. "someone" that my scan was crap, so I used his!

Goldengate wrote:: Repeat after me: 1982... 1982... 1982... 1982... It would be nice if I had an original copy of the book, but the cost is outrageous. I do not zoom in higher than 5X, a typical magnifying glass of 1982 era technology!

Goldengate wrote:: Repeat after me: 1982... 1982... 1982... 1982... It would be nice if I had an original copy of the book, but the cost is outrageous. I do not zoom in higher than 5X, a typical magnifying glass of 1982 era technology!

So the other night Linda S of wiki suggested that we should take a closer look at Grace Cathedral and Huntington park area because her nephew saw Grace written by the dragon. I know Scrappy was looking at that area once. I think this is what she's referring to:

So the other night Linda S of wiki suggested that we should take a closer look at Grace Cathedral and Huntington park area because her nephew saw Grace written by the dragon. I know Scrappy was looking at that area once. I think this is what she's referring to:

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Hello Everyone. Here follows the rambling thoughts of a Senior Citizen based 5,239 miles away in Derbyshire, England. All the images shown in the book The Secret ( A Treasure Hunt ) are Gestaits. Image one is a typical gestalt with an Anthropomorphic Landscape, which obviously accounts for the many Pareidolia moments encountered by all intrepid Treasure Seekers. So when Apophenia sets in the mind becomes anarchic and turbid. Sagacity is called for. Without lucidity, all images become fatuous and nugatory. I have read through most of the posts on this Forum, and had a few smiles and chuckles along the way. Anus Corn hole is head and shoulders in the lead for laugh out loud moments ( only Joshing! ) xx My deepest respect to ALL the contributors on this site for their thoughts and proposals for the San Francisco Casque ( Cask ) burial location. Fantastic work everyone. But, It’s not turned up yet!

Hello Everyone. Here follows the rambling thoughts of a Senior Citizen based 5,239 miles away in Derbyshire, England. All the images shown in the book The Secret ( A Treasure Hunt ) are Gestaits. Image one is a typical gestalt with an Anthropomorphic Landscape, which obviously accounts for the many Pareidolia moments encountered by all intrepid Treasure Seekers. So when Apophenia sets in the mind becomes anarchic and turbid. Sagacity is called for. Without lucidity, all images become fatuous and nugatory. I have read through most of the posts on this Forum, and had a few smiles and chuckles along the way. Anus Corn hole is head and shoulders in the lead for laugh out loud moments ( only Joshing! ) xx My deepest respect to ALL the contributors on this site for their thoughts and proposals for the San Francisco Casque ( Cask ) burial location. Fantastic work everyone. But, It’s not turned up yet!

Huh?! I think I need to go back to school.

Huh?! I think I need to go back to school.

Choice wrote:: Huh?! I think I need to go back to school. As far as I know, gesalt isnt a thing as much as it's a way of describing the process your brain uses to interpret an image. Take sf for instance. You see a chick with a dragon dress, but what it really is is a group of circles, curves, lines and other shapes that trick your mind into thinking it's a chick in a dragon dress. Hes saying (I think) that process is tricking your mind into seeing things that arent actually there, and in order to solve the puzzle you need to look at the shapes, and how the shapes work with the shapes in the other images instead of thw image as a whole.

Choice wrote:: Huh?! I think I need to go back to school. As far as I know, gesalt isnt a thing as much as it's a way of describing the process your brain uses to interpret an image. Take sf for instance. You see a chick with a dragon dress, but what it really is is a group of circles, curves, lines and other shapes that trick your mind into thinking it's a chick in a dragon dress. Hes saying ( I think) that process is tricking your mind into seeing things that arent actually there, and in order to solve the puzzle you need to look at the shapes, and how the shapes work with the shapes in the other images instead of thw image as a whole.

I thought that's what we've been doing.

I thought that's what we've been doing.

Halcon wrote:: Hello Everyone. Here follows the rambling thoughts of a Senior Citizen based 5,239 miles away in Derbyshire, England. All the images shown in the book The Secret ( A Treasure Hunt ) are Gestaits. Image one is a typical gestalt with an Anthropomorphic Landscape, which obviously accounts for the many Pareidolia moments encountered by all intrepid Treasure Seekers. So when Apophenia sets in the mind becomes anarchic and turbid. Sagacity is called for. Without lucidity, all images become fatuous and nugatory. I have read through most of the posts on this Forum, and had a few smiles and chuckles along the way. Anus Corn hole is head and shoulders in the lead for laugh out loud moments ( only Joshing! ) xx My deepest respect to ALL the contributors on this site for their thoughts and proposals for the San Francisco Casque ( Cask ) burial location. Fantastic work everyone. But, It’s not turned up yet! I quote the great philosopher Roy Munson when I say, "You would be punctilious in assuming that."

Halcon wrote:: Hello Everyone. Here follows the rambling thoughts of a Senior Citizen based 5,239 miles away in Derbyshire, England. All the images shown in the book The Secret ( A Treasure Hunt ) are Gestaits. Image one is a typical gestalt with an Anthropomorphic Landscape, which obviously accounts for the many Pareidolia moments encountered by all intrepid Treasure Seekers. So when Apophenia sets in the mind becomes anarchic and turbid. Sagacity is called for. Without lucidity, all images become fatuous and nugatory. I have read through most of the posts on this Forum, and had a few smiles and chuckles along the way. Anus Corn hole is head and shoulders in the lead for laugh out loud moments ( only Joshing! ) xx My deepest respect to ALL the contributors on this site for their thoughts and proposals for the San Francisco Casque ( Cask ) burial location. Fantastic work everyone. But, It’s not turned up yet! I quote the great philosopher Roy Munson when I say, "You would be punctilious in assuming that."

Back to fedral gummint paid fo skool get me sum edumacation Word of the day still a thing?

Back to fedral gummint paid fo skool get me sum edumacation Word of the day still a thing?

When first introduced to this quest, ( May 2018 ) and once we had a basic understanding of how to read and interpret the clues we looked at several verses but only One Image, which just shouts “San Francisco”.....Image One. Our first solution and the only one that seems totally plausible, ( in our most humble opinion) centres around The Maritime Museum area. All the clues depicted in Image One and verse 7, seem to come together and make some sort of sense. Then along comes Dorian and his wife and then BBI with the most graphic and eloquent explanation of their solves, which in the main follows our thoughts, but with a little more detail and panache. Well done you two/ three, excellent job!

Choice wrote:: So the other night Linda S of wiki suggested that we should take a closer look at Grace Cathedral and Huntington park area because her nephew saw Grace written by the dragon. I know Scrappy was looking at that area once. I think this is what she's referring to: That "r" requires too much suspension of my disbelief

catherwood wrote:: Did I miss the full report on this find? Did you gather pieces? Plexiglass is probably too generic to compare to other plastic samples, but the pottery could be analyzed. Did you post any photos of these artifacts? Hey sorry, I've definitely not been posting enough since I found it. Had a lot of business crop up. Choice's immediate response to this was super accurate: There's plexi and ceramic everywhere. Immediately after finding some pieces, we contacted Burnstyle. Even over the phone we found some differences between my ceramic (which were actually two different types of clay) and that of the found casques. To be sure, I mailed them to burnstyle. Nope, not casques. What I learned most was how a switch flips in people's brains from "I don't care" to "obsessed" because of things we didn't know happen all the time. I had no idea if you rake over ground in a public park, you can probably find lots of plexi and clay shards. Who would? And watching my friend stumble out to the senior center, only because he hadn't seen me in a year and we had had 3 IPAs each and he wanted to see what ol' crazy Drunk Nerds was up to... to "Whoa... you said these two substances would be here if the bulldozer destroyed a cask... and they're here! Whoa!" It really opened my eyes as to the unique factors that make this hunt something people obsess about for 40 years.

Just to add an extra morsel to The Maritime Park theory. Sounds from above! KFOG Radio 104.5 once operated from The Ghirardelli Clock Tower. Also on the 4th Floor of Maritime Museum is a Radio Room. Now for my Pareidolia moment! The blue, bird like blob and cannon shape to the upper right of the image can be found amongst the Intaglio carvings at entrance to museum. During the History of the Museum, it has been Baths, Casino, and served as a base for the US Airforce during WW2. ( Aces High?) The Senior Centre also have offices located there. Is the Dragon/ Phoenix their logo? Inside the entrance hall is this mural :- https://imgur.com/a/SHv44eu?s=sms Note the blue bubble blob on the left with yellow moon tailed fish beneath. Also note the crepuscular style rays which are depicted throughout most of these Hilaire Hiler Murals. Now looking at pages 64 and 65 of The Book. ‘ The West Ghost ‘This shows a group in a Bath Tub ( including an old guy trying to make sense of modern technology, haha.) with a ‘genie?’ floating on a vaporous trail, very similar to the mural, including the moon slither shape and searchlight beams in the distance! Giant Pole, Giant Step. From the Maritime Museum take a Giant Step towards Black point? A Giant Pole ( beam ) of light would emit from the Searchlight structure that also has the appearance of a single Giant Step.? Image has a Blackened fore finger that points at block 4 on sleeve. Black point, Pier 4. The Images forehead has a similar shape to the small protuberance on which the Searchlight stands. The end of her nose is almost the same shape as the shelter top. Could her very straight, bright nose be a beam ( Pole ) of light? ( turn image upside down ) Note the reflected areas of her cheeks, neck/chest and arm tops. And the shadow cast beneath the haloed pearl. .....Halcon..

Halcon wrote:: Image has a Blackened fore finger that points at block 4 on sleeve. Black point, Pier 4. What do you mean by Pier 4? The small pier next to the Maritime cove?

Choice wrote:: What do you mean by Pier 4? The small pier next to the Maritime cove? Pier 4 http://reelsf.com/reelsf/2014/6/7/the-h ... y-alcatraz

So the small pier next to the cove.

That would certainly suffice as an explanation for the blackened pointing fore finger. And the three other finger denoting Fort Masons Piers 1-2-3. Pier 4 was not only used to transport prisoners to Alcatraz but was also open to fishermen during the 1980’s. The Dragons head fits into the shape with its snout pointing to The Searchlight. Also look at the space between her forefinger and middle finger. You will find that pier 4 forms that same shape as the gap. The wall around the Searchlight also has the same shape as the pushed out gold line at the Dragons Snout. .....Halcon...

Thanks for your Fabulous input, yet again, bbi

I just hope your suggestion doesn't send a bunch of jack asses with their probes to that dangerous cliff area. Author specifically mentioned it won't be at any life-threatening location.

Choice wrote:: I just hope your suggestion doesn't send a bunch of jack asses with their probes to that dangerous cliff area. Author specifically mentioned it won't be at any life-threatening location. That's absolutely a fair point Choice, and to confirm Durian's comment. The whole of this park is under GGNRA jurisdiction and is a complete no dig/probe zone and people caught will be punished for vandalism.

“Oyez-Oyez-Oyez,!” Or in other words “ Hear ye-Hear ye Hear ye!..So listen up all you potential Jackass probers and diggers!.... Do Not probe and or Dig, Anywhere on GGNRA supervised areas, which include Historical Monuments situated at Fort Mason without the appropriate permissions and permits in place. The Searchlight looks to be in quite a perilous position very close to a steep edge. Do not be stupid enough to endanger yourself, and do not risk being locked up by the GGNRA. DO NOT PROBE OR DIG THIS AREA!!! Thanks for pointing this out Dorian. Very grateful. ......Halcon....

Attention survivors of dead or injured seekers: Contact Halcon for damage recovery!

To Choice. “I am suggesting that as we go through life, we ‘accentuate the positive.’ I am asking that we look a little deeper for the good, that we still our voices of insult and sarcasm, that we more generously compliment and endorse virtue and effort.” ‘Gordon B. Hinckley’ To Durian. I have read most if not all, of your well laid out solutions to this hunt, and admire the effort involved. I fully concur with, and respect your findings and image matching within the Maritime Museum. In my most humble opinion, between yourselves and bbi, you have tied down the main focal area for this quest. bbi’s symbol matchup and final burial site, IMO, seems more plausible than at the base of a Speaker or beside steps at Victorian Park. Only because of the Giant Pole and Step part of the verse. Well done, IMO to you both. The book also states at ‘c’ “ any public or private flower bed” will Not contain treasure. So where did Zinn / Abrams find a Casque? ....... In a Flower Planter on a public park!!!.Both Preiss and Palencar are a cunning and mischievous pair of plotters. My wife and I are celebrating our Golden wedding anniversary in February 2019 and have planned a 6 week trip to the Golden State to celebrate. We also intend to book a three/four day stay in San Francisco to put a ‘face’ to the city that we have researched with fascination and respect for its history over the last few months. .......Halcon....

Halcon, I was just pointing out your recklessness. I too had solutions that were in dangerous areas. I shared my solve with a few sane people privately and decided not to post them publicly. You go on with your long-winded ranting and babbling but it is your actions that puts this forum at risk. By the way that location was suggested multiple times previously, even one recently with a nicely done Google Earth video.

May I therefore ‘ Publicly ‘ apologise for putting any would be Jackass in danger. This is not my solve, I was merely endorsing others.

Having said that, here follows another long winded rant. This solve was formulated long before i even knew about this forum. But this is really ‘Out There’ and possibly does not stand up, but strangely it works..ish! Verse 1 Fortress North. Fortress north———————Alcatraz Cold as glass———————-the surrounding sea or ( al-ca-traz) Friendship south——————San Francisco Take your task To the number 982.. Fog City Restaurant 1300 Battery Street, whose Phone Number is 982-2000 Although they were established in 1985, maybe they inherited the number from the previous owners of the site, ‘ Harbor Cafeteria ‘? https://imgur.com/gallery/PdLVowy?s=sms Through the wood No lion fears. Wooden Piers? Sea Lions thwarted efforts to remove them from the piers. In the sky the water veers....Heavy sea mist/fog caught by wind surges. In the centre of four alike..Pier 23 is in the Center of 2sets of 4 piers all with arched entrances.. they are 35..33..31..29...then ..23..19..15..9 Small of scale...Step Across...Perspective should not be lost. Next door to Fog City Restaurant and Over the road from pier 23 we have The Levi’s Plaza. Before Levi’s Plaza was built the area was known as ‘ The White Angel Jungle ‘ set up to help the needy. Old Levi building address was 98 Battery Street. (98 two Levi’s ?) New Building was completed in 1981. But not opened to the public until April 1982. Ok.Ok! I know it’s a little on the tight side, but crafty BP could have disguised himself as a landscaper a year or so previous? Owned by Jim Joseph who is the franchise owner of Los Angeles football club. Rocks holding ball? ?? The site was Frederick Griffing Wharf, his ship was buried there and discovered again when Levi building work began. Site is situated a the base of Telegraph Hill. Part of the site incorporates The Italian Swiss Colony Building with old coving/ facia/ mouldings that look very similar to the background wall to the rear of image. Small of scale step across . Water feature on Levi Plaza Designed by Lawrence Halprin as “ The Sierra in the City”. On a smaller scale. Many stepping stones over streams etc. Or meaning Step Across the road from pier 23. Perspective should not be lost ? Many Large Sierra like Rocks incorporated in feature ( look at the type of rock, looks like the rock background of image ) Small, split. All buildings were designed to be low and welcoming, so as not to overpower the visitors, and was intended as a relaxing place to be. Also paving has a lot of X’s and squares and other patterns that could resemble some symbols on dress front. https://imgur.com/gallery/R5b7c4I?s=sms Three Winged and slight.. Levi Building is made up of Three separate slight ( low ) Buildings. What we take to be our strongest tower of delight—— quote from Herman Melville ( Romantic Poet and Author, Wrote Moby Dick ) goes on to say something like a falling leaf, a snow drop, a memory, just some little thing. Maybe the park would inspire or provoke a memory or thought in some visitors? Also Coit Tower is a highly visible from the site. Falls gently in December night—- possibly linked to same quote—- snow, mist, fog ? Looking back from treasure ground. Turn around and look over the road towards the Piers. There’s a spout!—-exclamation of sighting a Whale? There are many types of Whales found in the Bay. A whistle sounds—- from a departing ship/ boat. Could BP have put the Cask in a planter, before it was planted up,? as the site would have been very new and soft soil everywhere. Most certainly the area would have been of interest to many people at the time. The ‘X’ May be in a planter that can only be accessed via steppingstones? The square to the right of inverted h on images dress has an open slot, very similar to a couple of the water features. Address on Battery Street.( Cannon Battery? ) hence a blue shaped cannon. Same with bird shape, Sea Bird? Three of her fingers representing 3 piers 33, 31, 29 and her forefinger pointing to pier 23 where the Levi Plaza is over the road! Could the main thick curl of dragons tail surround the small water park in the centre? Maybe that could account for the large and small blocks on the tail. Could the blue areas behind dragon be rocks and cobble under water (stream) “Success consists of going from failure to failure without the loss of enthusiasm” Quote from Sir Winston Churchill. ......Halcon.....

Great stuff GG!

Hey GoldenGate, are you taking requests? I'm looking at the Galileo high area just behind Ghirardelli. Do you have a more closeup pic of that area besides the ones you posted from 80's. That would be cool. https://tinyurl.com/ydhtbn3r

Great pictures GoldenGate ! This picture confused me though... Even though I don't necessarily have Gh for Ghirardelli ... in this picture their logo is double sided and doesn't read as a mirrored GH when viewed from behind. Until when was their logo double sided? Does anyone know? https://ibb.co/cDTPjPW

Goldengate wrote:: ... (there is a black and white photo in the second set I've included since it shows there were two Ghirardelli signs, back to back, so at some point from the back it also read left to right) ... I think the picture is from the early 1900's. Most likely the south-side sign was discarded during the renovation in the 60's. Here's a clip from Wikipedia: " San Franciscan William M. Roth and his mother, Lurline Matson Roth, bought the land in 1962 to prevent the square from being replaced with an apartment building. The Roths hired landscape architect Lawrence Halprin and the firm Wurster, Bernardi & Emmons to convert the square and its historic brick structures to an integrated restaurant and retail complex, the first major adaptive re-use project in the United States. It opened in 1964."

Choice wrote:: Oops, kind of read over that... guess it was late and I didn't sleep for 3 days because this puzzle's on my mind... just thought the picture didn't look pre 1929, but I guess it must be since the Aquatic park pier isn't there...

I read somewhere that the sign originally faced South and was turned around to face North as it does today. Also, I have the two symbols at the top of her robe, the gold circle with the purple center as the Gallileo Logo and the gold square with what appears to be a small letter (g perhaps) as a reference to Ghirardelli Square.

MrBackstop wrote:: I read somewhere that the sign originally faced South and was turned around to face North as it does today. Also, I have the two symbols at the top of her robe, the gold circle with the purple center as the Gallileo Logo and the gold square with what appears to be a small letter (g perhaps) as a reference to Ghirardelli Square. MrBackstop, you are spot on with the connection to the Gold circle with the purple color in the middle, Galileo School colors. My theory uses GA and Polk street as a way points and sets you up towards Ghirardelli and the Warf. There is 3 clues that tells us this in the image. 1. In the image The Gold circle with purple color and Square with dot next to each other. Circle/Purple = Galileo(school colors), Square/dot = Ghirardelli Square. The dot in the middle is telling us this is a place. The two clues are next to each other as they are in that location. 2. Galileo was the Father of Observational Astronomy, this explains the moons above the rocks (astronomy) the number 11 (moons) is referring to Polk street, the 11th President. The dome from the observatory sits on the corner of Bay and Polk street. 3. the image supports the dome from GA and is confirming as a way point. alumina al2o3

If one interpret the dragon as Lombard st then it's nose is poking at the Russian hill (h-i-l-l is spelled out). Also "Near high" school is the Russian hill park. Russian hill park between Larkin stairs and Hyde, on the Bay st. side looks very close to the pattern Dragon's nose makes on the hill. Looks freshly redone. Also the Galileo observatory:

• Lombard, twisty road made of blocks (bricks, originally cobblestone) • Blue and purple bubbles surrounding the road are Hydrangea blooms (plants used for soil erosion prevention) • Top of the twisty part of Lombard ends up at Hyde, Russian hill where dragon’s nose pokes at (h-i-l-l spelled out) • That section of Lombard is one way street going from top to bottom. Bottom of her robe has “Do Not Enter” sign (2 half circles) • Look closely to the backward G. Has a dragon’s head inside. Look closely to dragon’s head; it’s a lions head, hence Galileo Lions. • Ga-lil-eo Ga (purple) lil (green Lambda Iota Lambda) eo (red)

Relevant flashback viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=galileo&start=2599 viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=galileo&start=2602

Moons are way markers. The larger the moon, the closer you are to the destination. So the smallest moon, moon #1 is the starting point. I use the reverse verse 7 so the starting point is Giant pole. List of identified way-marker moons: 1. Coit tower 2. Marconi memorial 3. Peter & Paul church 4. Joe DiMaggio playground 5. Columbus Ave. 6. Fisherman’s Wharf sign 7. Maritime Museum 8. --- 9. --- 10. Ghirardelli clock tower 11. Area outlined between ferry arch (pier 43) and Galileo observatory Image is large so click on the picture to expand. https://i.imgur.com/Z69zMqE.jpg

Goonie68 wrote:: MrBackstop, you are spot on with the connection to the Gold circle with the purple color in the middle, Galileo School colors. My theory uses GA and Polk street as a way points and sets you up towards Ghirardelli and the Warf. There is 3 clues that tells us this in the image. 1. In the image The Gold circle with purple color and Square with dot next to each other. Circle/Purple = Galileo(school colors), Square/dot = Ghirardelli Square. The dot in the middle is telling us this is a place. The two clues are next to each other as they are in that location. 2. Galileo was the Father of Observational Astronomy, this explains the moons above the rocks (astronomy) the number 11 (moons) is referring to Polk street, the 11th President. The dome from the observatory sits on the corner of Bay and Polk street. 3. the image supports the dome from GA and is confirming as a way point. Good info here Goonie. I see your part of the Image where you indicate that as the dome of the Observatory. Did you see Choice's post right after yours of the Observatory ? I believe this part of the Image is the Observatory while the art you posted is the view from behind the East Speaker Tower. Durian found this clue awhile back and pointed it out to me.....I never noticed it at the time. The number 11 comes up several times in this puzzle. Durian also came up with the idea that the 11 moons are actually the 11 letters in Ghirardelli and that moons represent each letter in the sign which light up. I like the idea with Galileo as well. I also like to point out that Ghirardelli Square has white globe lamps as well as other lamps that look like moons when lit at night. So many of these clues have multiple meanings and can be used to get to the final spot. Others have also mentioned the Apollo 11 landing and it's significance to SF. As for President Polk, as you mentioned, he was our 11th President. My take on this is that Polk Street is "ace is high" in the line "Near ace is high". With my dig spot being below the East Speaker Tower by the Far East entrance of the East Bleachers, my dig spot is near ace is high (Polk Street). "Sounds from the sky" refers to the Speaker Towers in the Aquatic Park.

I think verse 7 actually belongs with image 9 in St. Louis. My solution is below. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1QYdcj7 ... sp=sharing

Choice wrote:: So what's that place? It looks like they used all the symbolism cliches! Dragon, globe, shield, phoenix. Did I miss any?! Unicorn? not sure what it is - I found it in one of the links you posted above.....the tiny/url one I think.

Choice wrote:: So what's that place? It looks like they used all the symbolism cliches! Dragon, globe, shield, phoenix. Did I miss any?! Unicorn? not sure what it is - I found it in one of the links you posted above.....the tiny/url one I think.

MERLIN wrote:: not sure what it is - I found it in one of the links you posted above.....the tiny/url one I think. Nope not one of my links. You either accidentally clicked something on the left side bar of the google map or you have redirector virus.

MERLIN wrote:: not sure what it is - I found it in one of the links you posted above.....the tiny/url one I think. Nope not one of my links. You either accidentally clicked something on the left side bar of the google map or you have redirector virus.

I finally found a photo that shows the area of my dig spot for SF. I wanted to post that graphic as well as another. Karleen brought up the idea that perhaps there were other clues in the book itself. At first I thought, wait a minute, didn't he talk about no more clues would be in the book other than the Verses and Images? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't ...but as I looked at what Karleen was seeing in the book's illustrations I thought I'd give it a look. I was going thru the pages and came to page 15,....and there it was, it hit me like a smack in the face, there was the Dragon on the front of the boat being rowed. As I looked at that artwork I saw the many clues that are in my solve. But what really got me were the "circles" on the boat. They are almost identical to the decorative circles on the wall at the entrance of the East Bleachers in Aquatic Park. And other than the "golden pearl" with its shadow, I cannot find any other circles like these in Image 1. I also like how this page refers to the Fair Folk and Russia since Aquatic Park is at the bottom of Russian Hill. Not only that but the boat planks of the boat appear to be the stairs of the East Bleachers. Here is the graphic: Now put this together with the new photo I found and gives visual of my dig spot for Image 1. I do appreciate learning about the 2009 renovation to the park from Malted Falcon. He helped me look at my area in even more detail and I was able to come up with this spot for the casque. I see the "circular decorative" entrance marks as being the final locator. These circles are like the ones on the boat artwork and because they are a bas relief, they cast a shadow like the golden pearl in Image 1.

I finally found a photo that shows the area of my dig spot for SF. I wanted to post that graphic as well as another. Karleen brought up the idea that perhaps there were other clues in the book itself. At first I thought, wait a minute, didn't he talk about no more clues would be in the book other than the Verses and Images? Maybe he did, maybe he didn't ...but as I looked at what Karleen was seeing in the book's illustrations I thought I 'd give it a look. I was going thru the pages and came to page 15,....and there it was, it hit me like a smack in the face, there was the Dragon on the front of the boat being rowed. As I looked at that artwork I saw the many clues that are in my solve. But what really got me were the "circles" on the boat. They are almost identical to the decorative circles on the wall at the entrance of the East Bleachers in Aquatic Park. And other than the "golden pearl" with its shadow, I cannot find any other circles like these in Image 1. I also like how this page refers to the Fair Folk and Russia since Aquatic Park is at the bottom of Russian Hill. Not only that but the boat planks of the boat appear to be the stairs of the East Bleachers. Here is the graphic: Now put this together with the new photo I found and gives visual of my dig spot for Image 1. I do appreciate learning about the 2009 renovation to the park from Malted Falcon. He helped me look at my area in even more detail and I was able to come up with this spot for the casque. I see the "circular decorative" entrance marks as being the final locator. These circles are like the ones on the boat artwork and because they are a bas relief, they cast a shadow like the golden pearl in Image 1.

Just for fun! “ I Dream of Jeannie” connection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND1MXF-svtQ Note the position of her arms as if she’s casting a spell like the Jeannie. Apollo connection? From page 16 of The Secret: “Now, in the eternal whirlwinds above Persia's Mountains of Ka.f, appeared a caravan of magicwrought carpets, and upon them rode the banished elder spirits of Araby: monstrous Deevs, desert-born giants; the Peri, bright and beautiful as starlight; and the wish-granting Djinn, formed of smokeless fire, at last free from Man's lamps and bottles.” [ADDED:] Does the table turned upside down look kinda like the Jeannie lamp with a handle?

Just for fun! “I Dream of Jeannie” connection: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ND1MXF-svtQ Note the position of her arms as if she’s casting a spell like the Jeannie. Apollo connection? From page 16 of The Secret: “Now, in the eternal whirlwinds above Persia's Mountains of Ka.f, appeared a caravan of magicwrought carpets, and upon them rode the banished elder spirits of Araby: monstrous Deevs, desert-born giants; the Peri, bright and beautiful as starlight; and the wish-granting Djinn, formed of smokeless fire, at last free from Man's lamps and bottles.” [ADDED:] Does the table turned upside down look kinda like the Jeannie lamp with a handle?

I think this is a Must Have Document for anyone with The Aquatic Park Area as their cask burial site. cultural_ldscape_rpt_opimized.pdf If this link does not work, it can be found by searching... Cultural Landscape Report. Aquatic Park National Park Service. Hope it helps, as it answers a lot of ‘Date’ issues. And includes some fabulous photos.

I think this is a Must Have Document for anyone with The Aquatic Park Area as their cask burial site. cultural_ldscape_rpt_opimized.pdf If this link does not work, it can be found by searching... Cultural Landscape Report. Aquatic Park National Park Service. Hope it helps, as it answers a lot of ‘Date’ issues. And includes some fabulous photos.

Thanks for the great pdf Halcon. An area of interest is the Bocce ball courts that may explain the 3 round balls. Also there's a 1967 Commemorative fountain nearby, thumbnail image on page 57, image 9. It's shape is similar to the shadow under pearl.

Thanks for the great pdf Halcon. An area of interest is the Bocce ball courts that may explain the 3 round balls. Also there's a 1967 Commemorative fountain nearby, thumbnail image on page 57, image 9. It's shape is similar to the shadow under pearl.

The Secret, San Francisco Solution by slowrisingwhitebread Painting 1, Verse 7 Here is my solution to the San Francisco puzzle. Please go through the proper channels if you choose to dig at this spot. https://docs.google.com/document/d/1KJGKIiH97ksPLJIXXsW3V1OEP6pad4f_bjcy4-oqvzE/edit?usp=sharing

Choice wrote:: Thanks for the great pdf Halcon. An area of interest is the Bocce ball courts that may explain the 3 round balls. Also there's a 1967 Commemorative fountain nearby, thumbnail image on page 57, image 9. It's shape is similar to the shadow under pearl. Hi Choice, As with the tombstone match the other day, I'd like to also back up the Bocce Court icon match. This time I'm attaching my written solve (rather than the google earth movie ). In that you'll see I have also used the bocce court as a way marker along with another possibility for the 3 circles. There are a few things in the PDF I wanted to clean up such as the roman numeral 6 upside down as I believe that is actually illustrating the clock tower at Ghirardelli and not what I state in the PDF. Its still a work in progress but it sounds like your investigating the general area I'm at so thought I'd share. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KmJNDN ... sp=sharing

Choice wrote:: Thanks for the great pdf Halcon. An area of interest is the Bocce ball courts that may explain the 3 round balls. Also there's a 1967 Commemorative fountain nearby, thumbnail image on page 57, image 9. It's shape is similar to the shadow under pearl. Hi Choice, As with the tombstone match the other day, I 'd like to also back up the Bocce Court icon match. This time I 'm attaching my written solve (rather than the google earth movie ). In that you'll see I have also used the bocce court as a way marker along with another possibility for the 3 circles. There are a few things in the PDF I wanted to clean up such as the roman numeral 6 upside down as I believe that is actually illustrating the clock tower at Ghirardelli and not what I state in the PDF. Its still a work in progress but it sounds like your investigating the general area I 'm at so thought I 'd share. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KmJNDN ... sp=sharing

Durian wrote:: Very nice find MrBackstop!!! Let me add to it from my solve's perspective: The boat (emigrating to the New World) could well represent the San Carlos—first ship to enter into San Francisco Bay—memorialized by the plaque on the 'San Carlos' stone a giant step from the East speaker tower. (BTW, you've been referring to it incorrectly as the San Marcos stone, probably thinking of St. Augustine. Too many puzzles! Regardless of bleacher wall or stone/plaque, IMO that casque is SOOOOOOO in Aquatic Park. Thanks Durian, I couldn't agree more. And yeah, I keep saying Marcos all the damn time....San Carlos, San Carlos, San Carlos.....got it. I 've been working on Page 199 in the book now. It is all about Houston and Hermann park. Very cool artwork clues all over that page as well.

Durian wrote:: Very nice find MrBackstop!!! Let me add to it from my solve's perspective: The boat (emigrating to the New World) could well represent the San Carlos—first ship to enter into San Francisco Bay—memorialized by the plaque on the 'San Carlos' stone a giant step from the East speaker tower. (BTW, you've been referring to it incorrectly as the San Marcos stone, probably thinking of St. Augustine. Too many puzzles! Regardless of bleacher wall or stone/plaque, IMO that casque is SOOOOOOO in Aquatic Park. Thanks Durian, I couldn't agree more. And yeah, I keep saying Marcos all the damn time....San Carlos, San Carlos, San Carlos.....got it. I've been working on Page 199 in the book now. It is all about Houston and Hermann park. Very cool artwork clues all over that page as well.

bbi wrote:: ... Its still a work in progress but it sounds like your investigating the general area I 'm at so thought I 'd share. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KmJNDN ... sp=sharing I still have issues with the starting and ending of the verse. If your starting point is the "stonewall's door" then your sweet smell solution is a literal smell when the Japanese translation specifically mentioned it's a metaphor. Looking at the painting and the Chinese connection one can safely assume the stonewall (dragon in the painting) is reference to the great wall of China and it's door wide open is dragon's mouth that is in the shape of the cove. That being said, the stonewall and sweet smell ( of success) is the destination and NOT the starting point. You have a problem interpreting Giant pole and step because if you take a giant step you're at the bottom of the cliff! Giant pole and step is the starting point. This is also confirmed by the waymarkers that are not included in your solve i .e. Coit tower under the smallest moon, pier 43, baseball (DiMaggio) and so on.

bbi wrote:: ... Its still a work in progress but it sounds like your investigating the general area I'm at so thought I'd share. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KmJNDN ... sp=sharing I still have issues with the starting and ending of the verse. If your starting point is the "stonewall's door" then your sweet smell solution is a literal smell when the Japanese translation specifically mentioned it's a metaphor. Looking at the painting and the Chinese connection one can safely assume the stonewall (dragon in the painting) is reference to the great wall of China and it's door wide open is dragon's mouth that is in the shape of the cove. That being said, the stonewall and sweet smell (of success) is the destination and NOT the starting point. You have a problem interpreting Giant pole and step because if you take a giant step you're at the bottom of the cliff! Giant pole and step is the starting point. This is also confirmed by the waymarkers that are not included in your solve i.e. Coit tower under the smallest moon, pier 43, baseball (DiMaggio) and so on.

bbi wrote:: ... Its still a work in progress but it sounds like your investigating the general area I'm at so thought I'd share. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KmJNDN ... sp=sharing I still have issues with the starting and ending of the verse. If your starting point is the "stonewall's door" then your sweet smell solution is a literal smell when the Japanese translation specifically mentioned it's a metaphor. Looking at the painting and the Chinese connection one can safely assume the stonewall (dragon in the painting) is reference to the great wall of China and it's door wide open is dragon's mouth that is in the shape of the cove. That being said, the stonewall and sweet smell (of success) is the destination and NOT the starting point. You have a problem interpreting Giant pole and step because if you take a giant step you're at the bottom of the cliff! Giant pole and step is the starting point. This is also confirmed by the waymarkers that are not included in your solve i.e. Coit tower under the smallest moon, pier 43, baseball (DiMaggio) and so on.

bbi wrote:: Hi Choice, As with the tombstone match the other day, I'd like to also back up the Bocce Court icon match. This time I'm attaching my written solve (rather than the google earth movie ). In that you'll see I have also used the bocce court as a way marker along with another possibility for the 3 circles. There are a few things in the PDF I wanted to clean up such as the roman numeral 6 upside down as I believe that is actually illustrating the clock tower at Ghirardelli and not what I state in the PDF. Its still a work in progress but it sounds like your investigating the general area I'm at so thought I'd share. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KmJNDN ... sp=sharing bbi...without commenting on the content, I'd like to say that I like the design of that pdf....from the headlines to the alternating book layout to the word wrap. Looks like you made that in InDesign? Maybe Publisher? Good job, either way...

bbi wrote:: Hi Choice, As with the tombstone match the other day, I 'd like to also back up the Bocce Court icon match. This time I 'm attaching my written solve (rather than the google earth movie ). In that you'll see I have also used the bocce court as a way marker along with another possibility for the 3 circles. There are a few things in the PDF I wanted to clean up such as the roman numeral 6 upside down as I believe that is actually illustrating the clock tower at Ghirardelli and not what I state in the PDF. Its still a work in progress but it sounds like your investigating the general area I 'm at so thought I 'd share. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KmJNDN ... sp=sharing bbi...without commenting on the content, I 'd like to say that I like the design of that pdf....from the headlines to the alternating book layout to the word wrap. Looks like you made that in InDesign? Maybe Publisher? Good job, either way...

Choice wrote:: I still have issues with the starting and ending of the verse. If your starting point is the "stonewall's door" then your sweet smell solution is a literal smell when the Japanese translation specifically mentioned it's a metaphor. Looking at the painting and the Chinese connection one can safely assume the stonewall (dragon in the painting) is reference to the great wall of China and it's door wide open is dragon's mouth that is in the shape of the cove. That being said, the stonewall and sweet smell (of success) is the destination and NOT the starting point. You have a problem interpreting Giant pole and step because if you take a giant step you're at the bottom of the cliff! Giant pole and step is the starting point. This is also confirmed by the waymarkers that are not included in your solve i.e. Coit tower under the smallest moon, pier 43, baseball (DiMaggio) and so on. Agreed, I originally came up with most of this particular solve before the Japanese translations. So yes, I agree about the smells sweet part and intend to update that. When I first heard the verse, the first thought I had was the "Sweet smell of freedom" i.e. a prisoner being let out of Alcatraz (as a few others have already mentioned). As for the giant step and the cliff it's not ideal I know, but I've been to the Aquatic Park quite a few times now and nothing I saw in the physical sense fit "Giant" like features. I know the bleachers are large steps etc., but that area is sooo busy day and night even back in the 80's as well as being extremely exposed, I felt BP may have used the park to lead people through it, to the black point area or the pocket park where certain areas a less exposed. My initial area of interest was at the pocket park (tombstone area) and the back of the tunnel (the terraced gardens) which is currently an area that is out of bounds and being renovated. But there does look to be lot of interesting areas to look at such as paths ways/walls/benches. Either way, its all GGNRA land and thats a no no for any kind of probe/dig but I guess there's no offense in trying to come up with a theory. I do like your idea on the stonewall and sweet smell part of the verse being the destination and will give that some further thought. I'm going to be updating that pdf soon purely based on the feedback I've received on this forum. So I would like to thank yourself and others who have provided me with the feedback. Cheers,

Choice wrote:: I still have issues with the starting and ending of the verse. If your starting point is the "stonewall's door" then your sweet smell solution is a literal smell when the Japanese translation specifically mentioned it's a metaphor. Looking at the painting and the Chinese connection one can safely assume the stonewall (dragon in the painting) is reference to the great wall of China and it's door wide open is dragon's mouth that is in the shape of the cove. That being said, the stonewall and sweet smell (of success) is the destination and NOT the starting point. You have a problem interpreting Giant pole and step because if you take a giant step you're at the bottom of the cliff! Giant pole and step is the starting point. This is also confirmed by the waymarkers that are not included in your solve i.e. Coit tower under the smallest moon, pier 43, baseball (DiMaggio) and so on. Agreed, I originally came up with most of this particular solve before the Japanese translations. So yes, I agree about the smells sweet part and intend to update that. When I first heard the verse, the first thought I had was the "Sweet smell of freedom" i.e. a prisoner being let out of Alcatraz (as a few others have already mentioned). As for the giant step and the cliff it's not ideal I know, but I've been to the Aquatic Park quite a few times now and nothing I saw in the physical sense fit "Giant" like features. I know the bleachers are large steps etc., but that area is sooo busy day and night even back in the 80's as well as being extremely exposed, I felt BP may have used the park to lead people through it, to the black point area or the pocket park where certain areas a less exposed. My initial area of interest was at the pocket park (tombstone area) and the back of the tunnel (the terraced gardens) which is currently an area that is out of bounds and being renovated. But there does look to be lot of interesting areas to look at such as paths ways/walls/benches. Either way, its all GGNRA land and thats a no no for any kind of probe/dig but I guess there's no offense in trying to come up with a theory. I do like your idea on the stonewall and sweet smell part of the verse being the destination and will give that some further thought. I'm going to be updating that pdf soon purely based on the feedback I've received on this forum. So I would like to thank yourself and others who have provided me with the feedback. Cheers,

Choice wrote:: I still have issues with the starting and ending of the verse. If your starting point is the "stonewall's door" then your sweet smell solution is a literal smell when the Japanese translation specifically mentioned it's a metaphor. Looking at the painting and the Chinese connection one can safely assume the stonewall (dragon in the painting) is reference to the great wall of China and it's door wide open is dragon's mouth that is in the shape of the cove. That being said, the stonewall and sweet smell ( of success) is the destination and NOT the starting point. You have a problem interpreting Giant pole and step because if you take a giant step you're at the bottom of the cliff! Giant pole and step is the starting point. This is also confirmed by the waymarkers that are not included in your solve i .e. Coit tower under the smallest moon, pier 43, baseball (DiMaggio) and so on. Agreed, I originally came up with most of this particular solve before the Japanese translations. So yes, I agree about the smells sweet part and intend to update that. When I first heard the verse, the first thought I had was the "Sweet smell of freedom" i .e. a prisoner being let out of Alcatraz (as a few others have already mentioned). As for the giant step and the cliff it's not ideal I know, but I 've been to the Aquatic Park quite a few times now and nothing I saw in the physical sense fit "Giant" like features. I know the bleachers are large steps etc., but that area is sooo busy day and night even back in the 80's as well as being extremely exposed, I felt BP may have used the park to lead people through it, to the black point area or the pocket park where certain areas a less exposed. My initial area of interest was at the pocket park (tombstone area) and the back of the tunnel (the terraced gardens) which is currently an area that is out of bounds and being renovated. But there does look to be lot of interesting areas to look at such as paths ways/walls/benches. Either way, its all GGNRA land and thats a no no for any kind of probe/dig but I guess there's no offense in trying to come up with a theory. I do like your idea on the stonewall and sweet smell part of the verse being the destination and will give that some further thought. I 'm going to be updating that pdf soon purely based on the feedback I 've received on this forum. So I would like to thank yourself and others who have provided me with the feedback. Cheers,

Mister EZ wrote:: bbi...without commenting on the content, I'd like to say that I like the design of that pdf....from the headlines to the alternating book layout to the word wrap. Looks like you made that in InDesign? Maybe Publisher? Good job, either way... Thanks EZ. Yes, it was done in InDesign.

Mister EZ wrote:: bbi...without commenting on the content, I 'd like to say that I like the design of that pdf....from the headlines to the alternating book layout to the word wrap. Looks like you made that in InDesign? Maybe Publisher? Good job, either way... Thanks EZ. Yes, it was done in InDesign.

Does anyone know what or where this thing is?

Choice wrote:: Does anyone know what or where this thing is? I think it's the thing on this monument - https://cdn.abcotvs.com/dip/images/3120 ... .jpg?w=630

Choice wrote:: Does anyone know what or where this thing is? I think it's the thing on this monument - https://cdn.abcotvs.com/dip/images/3120 ... .jpg?w=630

bbi wrote:: Hi Choice, As with the tombstone match the other day, I'd like to also back up the Bocce Court icon match. This time I'm attaching my written solve (rather than the google earth movie ). In that you'll see I have also used the bocce court as a way marker along with another possibility for the 3 circles. There are a few things in the PDF I wanted to clean up such as the roman numeral 6 upside down as I believe that is actually illustrating the clock tower at Ghirardelli and not what I state in the PDF. Its still a work in progress but it sounds like your investigating the general area I'm at so thought I'd share. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1KmJNDN ... sp=sharing As a note (it doesn't change your solution), Martin Luther King Drv in Golden Gate Park was not called this in 1980. After the casque was buried it was renamed. It was previously South Drive. This has happened to a lot of Streets in GGP, including Nancy Pelosi Drv (frm East Middle Drv). X

bbi wrote:: Thanks EZ. Yes, it was done in InDesign. bbi You know I like much of what you have come up with here. I really like the tombstone clue you figured out....totally stumped me. Let me throw these 3 things out there at you. 1. The 3 balls I've seen these as not 3 circles, but 4. Your graphic close up shows the propeller at the start of Jefferson Street. Check out the bottom part of the easily seen 3 balls and you can see the edge of the 4th part of the propeller on the bottom. 2. The square with the "c" and the purple circle I like your idea of the purple scout logo but I also like this as a reference to the Galileo School logo...purple lion circle. The "c" in the square refers to "chocolate", as in the iconic chocolate squares made at Ghirardelli. 3. The upside down VI and 6 O'clock on the turntable clock This is a direction indicator to the casque from the Ghirardelli Clock Tower. If you start at the VI on the tower and move North in the direction of the "big hand" on the turntable clock, you go into Aquatic Park and where the XII would be on the other side of the East Speaker Tower. That is my dig spot as I've shown under the decorative circles on the left hand side of the Far East entrance into the bleachers. As I said, I agree with a whole lot of the really nice work you've done in your presentation. Well done.

bbi wrote:: Thanks EZ. Yes, it was done in InDesign. bbi You know I like much of what you have come up with here. I really like the tombstone clue you figured out....totally stumped me. Let me throw these 3 things out there at you. 1. The 3 balls I've seen these as not 3 circles, but 4. Your graphic close up shows the propeller at the start of Jefferson Street. Check out the bottom part of the easily seen 3 balls and you can see the edge of the 4th part of the propeller on the bottom. 2. The square with the "c" and the purple circle I like your idea of the purple scout logo but I also like this as a reference to the Galileo School logo...purple lion circle. The "c" in the square refers to "chocolate", as in the iconic chocolate squares made at Ghirardelli. 3. The upside down VI and 6 O'clock on the turntable clock This is a direction indicator to the casque from the Ghirardelli Clock Tower. If you start at the VI on the tower and move North in the direction of the "big hand" on the turntable clock, you go into Aquatic Park and where the XII would be on the other side of the East Speaker Tower. That is my dig spot as I've shown under the decorative circles on the left hand side of the Far East entrance into the bleachers. As I said, I agree with a whole lot of the really nice work you've done in your presentation. Well done.

I don't think it could be in a high traffic tourist packed area. I remember it much more crowded than the picture in the 80's. Always full of Japanese tourists. Those days are a bit "foggy" but weren't the bucket drummers there in the 80's all day long pounding on 5 gallon buckets sitting on the steps or was it later?

3 Balls? sedan 0 60 times

Nice balls Goonie! Is Alcatraz no dig zone? How about Angel Isl.?

The symbols across the robe are connected. So "balls" are most likely related to the Adobe logo looking symbol or old fashion table top phone. If you combine the two symbols you get something that looks like a skeleton key. The whole image is in a keyhole shape. Maybe is a clue to look closer to that clock wind hole next to the minute hand.

It was the early 80's right after the hostage crisis with the whole terrorism scare program at full bloom. The symbols across the robe are connected. So "balls" are most likely related to the Adobe logo looking symbol or old fashion table top phone. If you combine the two symbols you get something that looks like a skeleton key or clock wind key. The whole image is in a keyhole shape. Maybe it's a clue to look closer to that clock wind hole next to the minute hand. Table clocks are winded in the back where grandfather style clocks have the wind hole on the face. The image design shape is in form of a grandfather clock. Back to the counter clockwise running clock!

It was the early 80's right after the hostage crisis with the whole terrorism scare program at full bloom. The symbols across the robe are connected. So "balls" are most likely related to the Adobe logo looking symbol or old fashion table top phone. If you combine the two symbols you get something that looks like a skeleton key or clock wind key. The whole image is in a keyhole shape. Maybe it's a clue to look closer to that clock wind hole next to the minute hand. Table clocks are winded in the back where grandfather style clocks have the wind hole on the face. The image design shape is in form of a grandfather clock. Back to the counter clockwise running clock!

Dig spot (hole)? [ADDED:] Also imagine the rose and two thorns as a key going into the spiral spring to windup the clock.

Choice wrote:: Nice balls Goonie! Is Alcatraz no dig zone? How about Angel Isl.? That's not Alcatraz, it's at the Lombard / Presidio gate,

Alcatraz Social Hall/Officer's club location: For a while now I've been obsessed with the blue halo around the pearl being a hexagon shaped and not round. If the shadow of the pearl represents the giant pole then the blue hexagon could be the water tower in Alcatraz. The base of the tower is hexagon. A giant step (length of the tower) away is the ruins of the officer's club. Since the verse reads "to the place the casque is KEPT", it implies it's inside the ruins. 3 "balls" being the key. Rose terrace present. Structure's facade resembles the cell house in the image. Similar to NYC Chrysler building eagle. Alcatraz has root in arabic meaning sea eagle. [ADDED:] If the lady is a genie and is about to grant a wish as her arms are crossed and ready to do so, she may sound the spell “ALAKAZAM!” that sounds similar to Alcatraz.

Choice wrote:: I don't think it could be in a high traffic tourist packed area. I remember it much more crowded than the picture in the 80's. Always full of Japanese tourists. Those days are a bit "foggy" but weren't the bucket drummers there in the 80's all day long pounding on 5 gallon buckets sitting on the steps or was it later? I'm kind of with you on this Choice. When I was in Aquatic Park 12 years ago I was amazed at how empty it was the whole week. My family stayed in the Argonaut right next to the Park. We were over there everyday at one time of the day or another and it was always sparse. That's what I like about my dig spot as well, it is in area by the wall, behind the tree and speaker tower. Dusk or even early morning would have been a great time of day for BP to bury the casque.

The word "kept" in the verse implies holding like a prison. So Angel and Alcatraz comes to mind. I read the proposals on Angel island a few month ago and may deserve more attention. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=angel&start=194

Whilst on the subject of clocks. Check these out! First one by Shreve and Company that used to stand on Geary Street??. Note the time, very nearly 6.00 o’clock, as some have commented about the image’s timepiece...... I just thought it was a nice photo!! Second is from a book showing the Ghirardelli Clock Tower, the text reinforces ‘Sounds from above’. KFOG Radio https://imgur.com/gallery/QmuVOWq

Halcon wrote:: Whilst on the subject of clocks. ... You had me at "Whilst"! The officer's club is on the north east side of the island. So the image of the Alcatraz in the image 1 is from the perspective of Angel island. Maybe the club is in the lesser visited part of the island? viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=angel&start=194

Halcon wrote:: Whilst on the subject of clocks. Check these out! First one by Shreve and Company that used to stand on Geary Street??. Note the time, very nearly 6.00 o’clock, as some have commented about the image’s timepiece...... I just thought it was a nice photo!! Second is from a book showing the Ghirardelli Clock Tower, the text reinforces ‘Sounds from above’. KFOG Radio https://imgur.com/gallery/QmuVOWq Halcon This is what I see the askew 6:00 as: As an artist myself, it always struck me as odd that the 6:00 time was slightly off of true North.

Choice wrote:: You had me at "Whilst"! This! is totally disrespectful. People are providing information/researching for hours and just trying to add to this already resourceful forum (I'm sure some people may even be hesitant to add their ideas to this place just because they see the kind of nasty comments others reply with). To have this lack of respect for another persons thoughts/enthusiasm or ideas to me shows a complete lack of understanding and how to alienate someone from further adding to this forum.

bbi wrote:: This! is totally disrespectful. People are providing information/researching for hours and just trying to add to this already resourceful forum (I'm sure some people may even be hesitant to add their ideas to this place just because they see the kind of nasty comments others reply with). To have this lack of respect for another persons thoughts/enthusiasm or ideas to me shows a complete lack of understanding and how to alienate someone from further adding to this forum. "You had me at" means I totally agree... Must be the opposite day.

JamesV posted a useful resource for historical maps. https://ngmdb.usgs.gov/topoview/ One observation pertaining Image 1: On the bottom of the maps you have the choice of displaying Lat/Long in degrees/min/sec. (DMS) or Decimal Degrees (DD). If the two "half circles" represent mirrored D's then this changes the coordinates somewhat.

MrBackstop wrote:: As an artist myself, it always struck me as odd that the 6:00 time was slightly off of true North. Alternate way of looking at the table: • Red rose represents memorial • Rose and clock combo represent anniversary • 5:59 on clock? May 1959 anniversary of ...

This forum used to be a place to discuss ideas and have people critique different well formed thoughts that were connected to actual parts of the puzzle. Honestly, I am not seeing much of that on the Image 1 thread. Posting random pictures of random things, especially without tying back to anything in the puzzle is pointless. Also, if you have a theory and you have posted about several or 50 times, you've made your point. If no one else agrees and you aren't able, willing or capable of going to dig, then that's it. You've said your piece. Move on. Maybe for those who want to continue to discuss ideas until you've beat it to death, then take it to PMs or via email with each other. It really does nothing to move the puzzle forward by repeating the same thing over and over. The goal is not to talk this to death, the goal is to get boots on the ground and dig up a casque.

Since digging is not allowed talking about it is all we got. But I do agree that there's too much emphasis on drawings. That being said!, there's an urn shaped shadow under the pearl. Contribution!

Durian wrote:: So Choice, I've been thinking about what you are referring to as a blue hexagon around the pearl. Not sure what it means, but interestingly it seems to cast an angular shadow under the pearl. More interestingly, the angles forming this shadow seem to be repeated pretty much exactly in both top petals of the rose. To me the rose looks like dragon's claws grabbing and holding something. Especially the top of the rose looks like a chicken foot. This may be a nod to Angel island's immigration holding facility during the Chinese exclusion act enforcement.

Let's all remember that there was no image manipulation software in 1982. Also, you went to the library for research, grabbed some friends and went out and looked around and then dug holes.

It's hard to outline what I'm talking about with a mouse. So it's easier to outline digitally. It's visible to naked eye or enhanced with a magnifying glass. BTW Welcome back to the thread. We missed you!

Choice wrote:: Since digging is not allowed talking about it is all we got. But I do agree that there's too much emphasis on drawings. That being said!, there's an urn shaped shadow under the pearl. Contribution! https://www.wescover.com/p/public-sculp ... kfgzsPMNWz

MERLIN wrote:: https://www.wescover.com/p/public-sculp ... kfgzsPMNWz Very nice Merlin. The only thing missing is a dig spot since it's all concrete and flower planters!

So the shadow kinda looks like The Fountain. What if the pearl on top is the pointer to the location in the sculpture. Immediately below looking from the front is the Huntington park. View from 3 sides: Click on the images to expand https://i.imgur.com/Mrr2kIj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/S1IwUqe.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Q7l15YO.jpg

So the shadow kinda looks like The Fountain . What if the pearl on top is the pointer to the location in the sculpture. Immediately below looking from the front is the Huntington park. View from 3 sides: Click on the images to expand https://i.imgur.com/Mrr2kIj.jpg https://i.imgur.com/S1IwUqe.jpg https://i.imgur.com/Q7l15YO.jpg

Choice wrote:: So the shadow kinda looks like The Fountain . What if the pearl on top is the pointer to the location in the sculpture. Immediately below looking from the front is the Huntington park. So you are saying this puzzle works totally differently from Chicago and Cleveland. in which the gem in the image bears no discernable relation to the found casque locations.

Choice wrote:: So the shadow kinda looks like The Fountain. What if the pearl on top is the pointer to the location in the sculpture. Immediately below looking from the front is the Huntington park. So you are saying this puzzle works totally differently from Chicago and Cleveland. in which the gem in the image bears no discernable relation to the found casque locations.

maltedfalcon wrote:: So you are saying this puzzle works totally differently from Chicago and Cleveland. in which the gem in the image bears no discernable relation to the found casque locations. Point well taken. However there are puzzles that have clues in form of letters and numbers hidden in the jewel facets. It's not unreasonable to suggest that there may be clues around it since a pearl is smooth and more difficult to hide clues on it. It may point to a general location and not the dig spot.

Choice wrote:: Point well taken. However there are puzzles that have clues in form of letters and numbers hidden in the jewel facets. It's not unreasonable to suggest that there may be clues around it since a pearl is smooth and more difficult to hide clues on it. It may point to a general location and not the dig spot. Fair enough. I can't argue with that. I just don't see how you get from anywhere referenced in the image, to that fountain on stockton, while still on track to get to a dig site

Choice wrote:: Point well taken. However there are puzzles that have clues in form of letters and numbers hidden in the jewel facets. It's not unreasonable to suggest that there may be clues around it since a pearl is smooth and more difficult to hide clues on it. It may point to a general location and not the dig spot. Fair enough. I can't argue with that. I just don't see how you get from anywhere referenced in the image, to that fountain on stockton, while still on track to get to a dig site

maltedfalcon wrote:: Fair enough. I can't argue with that. I just don't see how you get from anywhere referenced in the image, to that fountain on stockton, while still on track to get to a dig site Well, most touristy route would be from Dragon's Gate to Stockton south to Union square, west to Powell, either take the Powell cable car at Market turn-around or at Post-Powell. Hop on California cable car to Huntington park. There are many clues to Huntington i.e. 1000 Mason and 2 triangles and circles, Grace/Huntington (G-H) or backward Huntington Hotel sign. https://tinyurl.com/y9j3pak5 https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7909793 ... a=!3m1!1e3 Also the location of the two half circles is pointed out by the symbols next to the backward h (hexagon, square). Landmark #64, 1000 California. Word Grace may be spelled out by the dragon. Cathedral references all over the place. Flashback: viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=huntington&start=2765

Goldengate wrote:: ... Have you read the book? Like cover to cover? Much of it was themed to be a tongue and cheek take on society and politics in the 80s (hence hiring Lampoon heavyweights Mann and Kelley)... http://kspot.org/trove/national_lampoon_dec1982.pdf courtesy forest_blight

At the time of the Secret, Ghirardelli chocolate was owned by the parent company of Rice-A-Roni from 1963 to 1986. As you remember, the Rice-A-Roni ads were huge in that time period, so maybe the cable car outline in the Image would have just made us think about Rice-A-Roni and dig a little into the connections. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghirardel ... te_Company

I’m looking to buy the 1981 first edition. If anyone knows where to get one, I would appreciate a heads up. My price range is $300 or lower. Thanks guys.

Rviewer1 wrote:: I’m looking to buy the 1981 first edition. If anyone knows where to get one, I would appreciate a heads up. My price range is $300 or lower. Thanks guys. I hope you find one at that price. I haven't seen any lately. I must say the paperback book is horrible. The images in it have little detail. I can't believe they can sell such a crappy book for $30.00. I still bought it. I don't think many copies of the first hardback edition were printed. Maybe someone else on this forum knows. I think I heard it was around 2,500 copies. And I don't know it Byron Preiss did a book tour. That would be interesting to find out. If the book was released in the East and not many sent West then that may be another issue. The search for the book may be as difficult as looking for the treasure. Good luck in your search.

One sold for $25 a couple of month ago on eBay. I was late by a couple of mins. https://tinyurl.com/y8mpfeb2

That is just too sad. I haven't seen any that cheap. The last one I saw on eBay was in horrible condition.

These vine leaves look familiar: https://tinyurl.com/y8ko7gsq "V" branch: https://tinyurl.com/y8dv2rsk Nice View: https://tinyurl.com/yawxv29d

It seems like Mark has lost control of this forum. 11 of 20 front page threads are porn now. Are we under threat of getting hacked or infected?

Choice wrote:: It seems like Mark has lost control of this forum. 11 of 20 front page threads are porn now. Are we under threat of getting hacked or infected? You are on the internet, you are always under threat of being hacked or infected.

maltedfalcon wrote:: You are on the internet, you are always under threat of being hacked or infected. Thanks MF, you are the bottomless well of conventional wisdom.

Give him time to remove them, he always does.

Choice wrote:: It seems like Mark has lost control of this forum. ...Are we under threat of getting hacked or infected? The usual precautions apply: Do NOT click on any link from these people, in their posts and in their profiles. Avoid even loading their posts, if you are truly worried. It's unlikely, but still possible that they could inject code into an image and have used BBCode to display it. Beyond that, the forum should be safe for us to load each index of topics. A clever hacker might be able to embed something in a subject line, but these bots are just out to flood the system with plain garbage. The fact that this round is so full of obvious porn makes it even easier for us to avoid.

Thank you Mark!

Hello Everyone, Yes, first post. I'm a rookie that learned about this on TV from an October episode of EU. Now, I've spent the better part of three months going through all of your' comments about Im-1 and V-7 (SF), determined to find the casque quickly! Arrogance is the Primary Tool for a Fool... For now, I humbly ask you all, to answer the following questions: 1) Was Image 1 the first painting done by JJP for Byron? 2) Was this the first casque buried? 3) How long was Byron at Stanford? Dates? Was he "courting" Sandi during this time? 4) How long was Sandi in SF before they got married in 1986? Dates? Why was She there? What for? Where did She stay-or hang out? 5) Was Byron, or his Father Edmund, a Free Mason ? 6) Were any of Byron's, or Sandi's family in the US Military ? 7) Do you believe that Sandi had any input into the NY or SF puzzles? They may have known these two cities more intimately than any of the others (because; they met in NY and fell in Love in SF)? Lastly: Now that the Im-1 and V-7 forums have "shot-down" 5 of my first "knee-jerk" solutions... Does this make me an "ACE"? Or, do I have to have dug holes to become one...? Thanks to All! I believe it's still there! Let's find it.

skyranger56 wrote:: 1) Was Image 1 the first painting done by JJP for Byron? 2) Was this the first casque buried? 3) How long was Byron at Stanford? Dates? Was he "courting" Sandi during this time? 4) How long was Sandi in SF before they got married in 1986? Dates? Why was She there? What for? Where did She stay-or hang out? 5) Was Byron, or his Father Edmund, a Free Mason ? 6) Were any of Byron's, or Sandi's family in the US Military ? 7) Do you believe that Sandi had any input into the NY or SF puzzles? They may have known these two cities more intimately than any of the others (because; they met in NY and fell in Love in SF)? 1 only JJP knows and he is not talking, but probably 2 no one knows 3 probably 2-3 years., no idea 4 no idea 5 probably not 6 no idea 7 I understood it to be all done by the time Byron and his wife got together.

Do we really need to know any of these info to solve any of the puzzles?

Choice wrote:: Do we really need to know any of these info to solve any of the puzzles? I have been doing a lot of research about the path to the place to dig up the treasure and I am thinking it may have taken BP way to long to be able to do all details I think he may have done in the time frame. So yes, Choice, I do believe some of these question would help. I don't like to post my thoughts on this forum because the feed back gets so negative. I have a location I would like to dig and wanted to invite some of the old timers on the forum to comment on my ideas but I don't think they would take me serious. I have reached out to a few people through PM and had a few responses. I prefer to communicate that way. So discounting my comments to a new person on this post, and also not encouraging new people is only going to block new ideas. Yes, some of the new posts have hair brained thinking, but I get a kick out of most of the posts. I have mapped a path to a solve from finding things in the image that leads to the verse. Should I share my ideas on this forum?

prospector wrote:: I have been doing a lot of research about the path to the place to dig up the treasure and I am thinking it may have taken BP way to long to be able to do all details I think he may have done in the time frame. So yes, Choice, I do believe some of these question would help. I don't like to post my thoughts on this forum because the feed back gets so negative. I have a location I would like to dig and wanted to invite some of the old timers on the forum to comment on my ideas but I don't think they would take me serious. I have reached out to a few people through PM and had a few responses. I prefer to communicate that way. So discounting my comments to a new person on this post, and also not encouraging new people is only going to block new ideas. Yes, some of the new posts have hair brained thinking, but I get a kick out of most of the posts. I have mapped a path to a solve from finding things in the image that leads to the verse. Should I share my ideas on this forum? Do you have two different logins? Here's the thing, a lot of people come onto the forum, post wild hair-brained theories and then disappear. Also, most people don't bother to read the threads and see what has been discussed, investigated and thrown out as not great ideas. You have a few options: 1. Post anyway and take the potential criticism. 2. Don't post publicly and just PM people. 3. Develop some concepts with people, then they will be more invested and teamwork is always a good approach. I have noticed that people tend to take criticism very personally. It is the concept that is being criticized, not you personally. That is, unless you are a total tool.

I have been looking at the building structure up in the far left top corner of image 1. I have thought that it may have been the palace of fine art or the Legion of Honor and then possibly an observatory. I think I finally may have gotten it. It is sitting up there on top of the rocks. It is a generic house up on top of a cliff. That would make it the “The Cliff House”. AKA an object of Twain’s attention.

Sorry I posted it in the Verse 7 thread. "high posts are three"[/quote] Not far away? you need a telescope From Ghirardelli I take it you are in the camp that you have to see every clue from the dig spot?

But I thought you are starting from Montgomery/Pyramid area and going north on Columbus. How does Ghirardelli get in the mix? The problem is you started explaining your solve from the middle of the verse, "running north" part. It gets confusing when I don't have a starting point. Please a bit more cohesion.

Choice wrote:: But I thought you are starting from Montgomery/Pyramid area and going north on Columbus. How does Ghirardelli get in the mix? The problem is you started explaining your solve from the middle of the verse, "running north" part. It gets confusing when I don't have a starting point. Please a bit more cohesion. For me the verse starts at the Aquatic Tomb stones "Walls door" (maybe a hint by the dead guy in the rocks a 49er?) then "the air smells sweet" Ghirardelli Square, "High Post" The CA Thayer, "Education and Justice" ( Alcatraz) The capitulation of the E & J put you at the intersection of Embarcadero ( E ) and Jefferson ( J ) . Head south on Powell, "sounds from the sky" (church bells) near ace is high" You pass Lombard Street (Dragon) Telegraph hill (ace being Coit address 1 on a high hill) brings you to Filberst street (church) using Powell st to Filber ( POW IMO is in the image , turn the image upside down read right from left and the spiral looks like a P , the clock shape an O and the stem coming off the table a W, POW short for POWELL. "Running north, but first across, Columbus runs North and south, you take Filbert to cross Columbus , but first across. top ten epic poems

I like everything about it except the Twain thing. The Transamerica Pyramid is too convoluted for my simple mind. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention I break it down to: Running north -- obviously the direction first across -- Columbus in jewel's direction -- East or West direction Is an object of Twain's attention Remove the direction instructions to find out what the object is first. It reads: Columbus is an object of Twain's attention Go further, mark twain means 12 feet (2 fathoms) and attention meaning stiff as statue Then you get: Columbus is an object, 12 foot statue. or: Columbus ia an object, 12 feet standing straight (or tall)

I know most people are down with verse 6 being Charleston. I have found several ties to San Francisco. The verse lines "Beside the long palm's shadow" and then "White house close at hand." Look at where the actual shadow of the palm hits the white house below. I am working on a solve that has brought me here to the conservatory of flowers as the final location. I don't have time to go over it right now but I will try and get it out this week

Let it be Horseshoe sand pits. . o O (crosses fingers) You do know that the upside-down horseshoe (frame of the image) is bad luck!

I like the overhead shot of the space in front of the conservatory with the round top and circle and the crossing area in the middle and the rows on each side. Just have to sort out the Japanese translation stuff, find 1913 in the Image. 1913 is present with a little ingenuity (shoehorning). This thread is combination of whole lot of solution threads. I miss Spiritr!

Choice wrote:: I miss Spiritr! Go find him. I’m sure he needs help with the mathmatically advanced, super cryptic solutions that no one else has the capacity to understand. Sorry in advance. I couldn’t resist.

BINGO wrote:: Go find him. I’m sure he needs help with the mathmatically advanced, super cryptic solutions that no one else has the capacity to understand. Sorry in advance. I couldn’t resist. A lot of pent up hostility! Sea kelp!

I've found period postcards a good media for image match. eBay is a good source for these. Here's an example. Soooo close!

The Decoration Day that was celebrated in San Francisco on 30 May 1913. Based on the extensive illustrated coverage in the next morning's San Francisco Call newspaper, it appears that the 1913 event was conceived as the launch of a dedicated effort to raise the profile of Decoration Day as a more general holiday of remembrance. http://www.emperorsbridge.org/blog/2016 ... peror-1913 https://tinyurl.com/ybgxnehg

I wonder if this is our dragon hiding on the carousel - there is an amazing amount of imagery at the carousel. - https://foursquare.com/v/golden-gate-pa ... de89965b3a https://www.gpsmycity.com/img/au_attr/2190.jpg

MERLIN wrote:: I wonder if this is our dragon hiding on the carousel - there is an amazing amount of imagery at the carousel. - https://foursquare.com/v/golden-gate-pa ... de89965b3a https://www.gpsmycity.com/img/au_attr/2190.jpg The carousel broke down in '77....it was sent to Ruby Newman Studios for restoration....it was put back and reopened in '84. Here's her site, with pictures of her hand painting one of the mounts in '79.....many of the pictures there copyright, '80 to '85. http://www.rubynewman.com/main/carousel.html http://www.rubynewman.com/pages/DA_Carousel_History.htm l https://goldengatepark.com/golden-gate-park-carousel.html There's a good picture of the restored sea dragon, here: http://www.rubynewman.com/pages/DA_Carousel_Menagerie.html

Wow it was originally powered by steam! Lots of good info - thanks EZ

MERLIN wrote:: Wow it was originally powered by steam! Lots of good info - thanks EZ Yup, yup. I think Goonies also posted that link to the studio, sometime in March, last year....it's a phenomenal carousel.

Back to Verse 6. I am going to breakdown verse 6 and image 1 from the beginning of the verse to the end of the verse. However I'm not using the verse in a linear fashion for my attempt at a solve. However I am using the methodology used in Chicago and Cleveland to a point. When I look at image 1, I get smacked in the face with the archetype that the "Rock" has become. I see a barred window on a rock. Therefore Alcatraz is my city confirmer not GGP. Any tourist will be more familiar with the rock (Alcatraz) than GGP IMO. Although I can see the merit of either being the city confirmer. What I have tried to bring together is food for thought and hopefully a new perspective at verse 6 and image 1. I have used work that has been done before me as I stand on the shoulders of giants. I have also added in my own work. Any ideas and input on this work would be graciously received. I am using movements to keep it partially linear to follow and they are coming from both verse and Image1.Which may be my diversion from the 2 previously solved cities methods. Although at this point I have not decided yet on how I'm going to put together the pieces that I have which I believe can get me down to a 2 foot area and the final location. Hyde Street Pier and Alcatraz So we have the first lines of the verse: :Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old" This can be attributed to the songs and themes of the 1849ers diggers. It can also be traced to Robert Louis Stevenson in his book "Treasure Island". Quote from the book below. "And all the old romance, retold" and "If sailor tales to sailor tunes" This almost comes out word for word from the book. RLS has a plaque on Bush Street where he lived and one in Ports Mouth Square: After speed reading "Treasure Island" there are so many parallels for us would be treasure hunters. Hopefully we will be more civil that Long John Silver. Then we have: "Stand and listen to the birds" "Hear the cool, clear song of water” If Alcatraz is my city Confirmer I would be at the Hyde Street pier (and the above verses would likely come into play) heading for the Hyde st Powell street cable car which leaves at yes, 6 AM, and that Hyde is a character in RLS’s book. "Strange Case of Dr Jekyll and Mr Hyde". I would then go to Clay st which is an outlet for Portsmouth Square in China Town. I move down to Clay Street and run into Lafayette Square that has in interesting looking Fountain that resembles the table in image 1. I have seen these Pics below posted on another forum and would make things interesting if you were into the cable car theme with the cable car turn around as the table top. Then you would have "the embedded in sand" hint at where the treasure is with the cable care in literally being sand. I have no idea if it is still there as that does not play into my attempt at a solve. It would have been a good idea though. As I'm cruising down Clay's Street I suddenly "Harken to the words" "Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913" This is a shout out to the "Emancipation Proclamation". "Or May 1913" was the 50th Anniversary of the "Emancipation Proclamation" as celebrated at the exposition of 1913. "Harken to the words" was a nod to James Weldon Johnson's poem that was written for the occasion: On the Fiftieth Anniversary of the Signing of the Emancipation Proclamation. O brothers mine, to-day we stand Where half a century sweeps our ken, Since God, through Lincoln’s ready hand, Struck off our bonds and made us men. Just fifty years–a winter’s day– As runs the history of a race; Yet, as we look back o’er the way, How distant seems our starting place! You can read the rest of the poem at your leisure. Clay Street was named after Henry Clay who was an esteemed politician that was both speaker of the house and a senator from Kentucky as well as the Secretary of State. He was the cousin of Cassius Marcellus Clay who assisted Abraham Lincoln with the "Emancipation Proclamation". I'm sure that it is known that his family home was named "White Hall" in Kentucky and he was known as the "Lion of White Hall". As interesting as this is it does not come into play with my "White House" and last time I checked I did not see any palms. Then we have "Edwin and Edwina named after him" That would be Edwin being named after Edwin Forrest. Edwin"s daughter was named Edwina. He was a famous Shakespearean actor. In a bit of historical irony it was Edwin Booth who saved Abraham Lincoln sons life. "Mr. Booth was so popular in San Francisco, that The San Francisco News Letter, a popular publication in the 19th century, featured a reproduction of a lithograph of him, by none other than the famous San Francisco lithographers Britton, Rey & Co. Printed for its readers as a free illustration, it notes on the bottom – “Gratis with “News Letter” Sept. 9th 1876″. https://www.californiapioneers.org/shakespeare-in-19th-century-san-francisco/ Below is the Plaque found on 444 Bush Street in San Francisco where the California Theater was located with Edwin Booth being listed. Continuing down Clay Street I come to a dead end on Arguello Blvd. This is where I come to the building structure that is located in image 1 up in the top left hand corner, the Temple Emanu-El. It sits at Lake St and Arguello. On top of the dome there is a coral blue circle like the Gem. I don't think BP would have been able to see it though. Its good to take a look at the building from different angles. It does have a the same San Fancisco style pearl inside under the dome. Also the main focus of the Jewish Congregation is for social justice for the immigrants and refugees. So I go left heading down Arguello to get to my next way points. I follow Arguello Blvd right into GGP on Conservatory Drive to the Conservatory of Flowers. The next part of the verse is: "Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended" This has to do with Shakespeare. William Shakespeare's themes in many of his works are about the law, legal issues and Justice. You can look at this in two ways. The Law is defended in the Court's. For this we have the Tennis Court Complex across the street. Although I would attribute this part of the Verse to Shakespeare's Macbeth Act 5 Scene 8, where the Law and Order are restored to Scotland. Then the next part of the verse goes "Between two arms extended". This would be the Garfield Monument back across the street from the Tennis Courts. Then we have "Below the bar that binds". This again has to do with the Law. It means passing the bar exam to become Lawyer. Now we have come full circle. We have the verses "Beside the long palm's shadow" and "White house close at hand" And finally: "Embedded in the sand" "Waits the Fair remuneration" This is where the treasure casque will be found. Stay tuned. For me this has not been so much of a treasure hunt as it has been a history hunt. I know that this attempt at a San Francisco(image 1) solve for verse 6 will not be popular with a lot of Charleston people. Not to mention the Verse 7 people for Image 1. If for lack of anything else, I hope that some of this information will be helpful in some way.

This is a nice little booklet that was provided by the GGNRA in 1979 outlining their parks etc. Gives a good idea of what was accessible at the time and the types of activities provided in certain parks. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kfm1Z ... zc-1QHGZ-9

bbi wrote:: This is a nice little booklet that was provided by the GGNRA in 1979 outlining their parks etc. Gives a good idea of what was accessible at the time and the types of activities provided in certain parks. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kfm1Z ... zc-1QHGZ-9 Great resource of information! The brochure really makes Alcatraz a really good fit for Education and Justice, by what was written in the booklet, "Alcatraz can provide an excellent educational outing, school groups can explore. This kind of material would of resonated with BP as he was a teacher and possible used what was thought in (local) Jr /High school as clues to the verse. Its resources like this that might of played a part in BP doing his research for the path to the casque.

But can't any historical spot provide an opportunity for education? I really can't see someone looking at a jail and thinking "education and justice" is a good fit.

drunknerds wrote:: I really can't see someone looking at a jail and thinking "education and justice" is a good fit. go back and look through the posts with the word Alcatraz it has been suggested for both over and over and over.

drunknerds wrote:: But can't any historical spot provide an opportunity for education? I really can't see someone looking at a jail and thinking "education and justice" is a good fit. Many schools take field trips to both Angle Island and Alcatraz, I should know went to both with my elementary school in the 70's so yes I can see where education can be thought of.

A possible site for "education and justice" may be UC Hastings college of the law in SF. Interestingly it is also associated with a place called Snodgrass hall which was a pen name that Twain used at one time.

maltedfalcon wrote:: go back and look through the posts with the word Alcatraz it has been suggested for both over and over and over. Haha, don't I know it. I've read all verse and image threads from start to finish at least twice. I just think it's ridiculous. If we open up the definition of "education" to "my class went there once" then every single landmark in SF fits and the clue becomes meaningless. Not to mention it just doesn't make sense: No one looks at a prison and thinks "education," even though there is some kind of education involved with every prison. It's like looking at the Statue of Liberty and calling it "Liberty and Literacy" just because there's an inscription at the base with words one can read. It's tunneling: Picking a spot and then getting really creative with the verse to fit that spot. And it doesn't fit the known solves. "Socrates" wasn't "hey let's find something that has to do with Socrates" it was literally, "find the word Socrates." "Beneath two countries" wasn't "find something with two cultural influences" it was literally "find a spot near areas named for two countries." So there it is: - Way too broad an interpretation - Doesn't pass the smell test - Doesn't match the known solves That's the thing about verse 7. It's sooooo non-specific you could pick anywhere in SF and interpret the verse to fit there. We need either an image match or the exact words from part of the verse to have a clue I would consider significant.

So may people speak of the negative space in the dragon wing being a strawberry. Is it possible that it is actually a street lamp or something similar?

GoldenMartyr wrote:: So may people speak of the negative space in the dragon wing being a strawberry. Is it possible that it is actually a street lamp or something similar? It is possible, although in the puzzles where we would specifically expect there to be light poles or street lamps clues, there does not seem to be any. Boston and Milwaukee especially, since the harp lights are very distinct.

gManTexas wrote:: It is possible, although in the puzzles where we would specifically expect there to be light poles or street lamps clues, there does not seem to be any. Boston and Milwaukee especially, since the harp lights are very distinct. What I was attempting to show is, the strawberry connection is somewhat loose. Sure, it could be correct, don't get me wrong about that but trace it and look at the layer without the photo. People have latched onto many of these interpretations as fact and haven't looked much deeper. If you trace the entire portion of negative space, does the area look more like a light than what has been dubbed a strawberry in the past. Can we challenge the methodology leveraging small reasonable changes that still walk a logical path?

GoldenMartyr wrote:: What I was attempting to show is, the strawberry connection is somewhat loose. Sure, it could be correct, don't get me wrong about that but trace it and look at the layer without the photo. People have latched onto many of these interpretations as fact and haven't looked much deeper. If you trace the entire portion of negative space, does the area look more like a light than what has been dubbed a strawberry in the past. Can we challenge the methodology leveraging small reasonable changes that still walk a logical path? Yes. I never liked the concept of the strawberry. Seems superficial.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: Can we challenge the methodology leveraging small reasonable changes that still walk a logical path? The key word is logical here. The answer is absolutely yes. The biggest problem with some of the assumptions that have been taken as fact is you may introduce sequential error into your path. If you make an error when interpreting/assuming a clue, the entire path can go off track.

BINGO wrote:: The key word is logical here. The answer is absolutely yes. The biggest problem with some of the assumptions that have been taken as fact is you may introduce sequential error into your path. If you make an error when interpreting/assuming a clue, the entire path can go off track. That's why we need to integrate all of the clues and see if we have gone astray. In other words, stick some push pins in the map and see where most of the things land.

The best place to start looking might actually be the places that have no pins...

BINGO wrote:: The key word is logical here. Of course, that is why I included it. Many attempt to challenge what is commonly accepted with extreme methods. I'm not a fan of that. I'm also not a fan of forcing a method based on 17%(2 of 12).

GoldenMartyr wrote:: Of course, that is why I included it. Many attempt to challenge what is commonly accepted with extreme methods. I'm not a fan of that. I'm also not a fan of forcing a method based on 17%(2 of 12). Side note, it's funny that both of you have signatures of crap Choice has said to you. I don't think he plays well with others.

gManTexas wrote:: Side note, it's funny that both of you have signatures of crap Choice has said to you. I don't think he plays well with others. That seems to be a common theme with his other screen names as well.

gManTexas wrote:: I don't think he plays well with others. C'est la vie....I'm just quick to say something when you show up to a baseball game with a tennis racket. People tend not to like that....but logic will break your heart.

Dang, thought vagina monologues was cancelled

I've primarily been focusing on Boston and New York as I live closer to there but I decided to branch out and try to see what I can learn from the other puzzles. I spent a decent amount of time in SF for work at a previous company so I felt most comfortable adding this one on to my search. I think the Verdi statue could be a good match for giant pole giant step. It looks like it got mentioned briefly here before, but has anyone checked it out? There's a small figure holding a large pole taking a step. https://goo.gl/images/MTWMNT

jovialowl wrote:: , but has anyone checked it out? There's a small figure holding a large pole taking a step. yes quite a few people have mentioned it or used that in their theories (not sure about people who looked there) . you can stick the word Verdi in the search box over to the above right... it shows 11 results including you.

Just starting to skim gManTexas's Methodology First Edition document (highly recommend) and he cites that Da Vinci's "Virgin on the Rocks" was originally commissioned for a church in Milan. But it wasn't just any church... From the "did you know" file - as slappybuns pointed out back in 2011 - It was commissioned to be the altarpiece for the chapel of the San Francesco Grande. (I see what ya did there JJP - you made an art pun that's also a city clue. Well played).... http://www.italianrenaissance.org/leona ... the-rocks/

the only city clues JJP did was the color scheme and the shape of the city's biggest park...

Kang wrote:: It was commissioned to be the altarpiece for the chapel of the San Francesco Grande. (I see what ya did there JJP - you made an art pun that's also a city clue. Well played).... Absolutely - No doubt in my mind that is why this picture was chosen. I remember when slappybuns found that it was a very oh wow moment.

http://www.sfcityguides.org/images/guid ... toRose.jpg

Kang wrote:: Just starting to skim gManTexas's Methodology First Edition document (highly recommend) and he cites that Da Vinci's "Virgin on the Rocks" was originally commissioned for a church in Milan. But it wasn't just any church... From the "did you know" file - as slappybuns pointed out back in 2011 - It was commissioned to be the altarpiece for the chapel of the San Francesco Grande. (I see what ya did there JJP - you made an art pun that's also a city clue. Well played).... http://www.italianrenaissance.org/leona ... the-rocks/ Thanks for the props. One of my goals for putting this together was to collate some of the information in one place since certain info gets lost in the weeds over time.

With all this hoax talk I noticed something on the Giuseppe Verdi Monument - could be nothing: EDIT - Nevermind that 3 for March, those are the LONG/LAT coordinates

Jordan wrote:: With all this hoax talk I noticed something on the Giuseppe Verdi Monument - could be nothing: EDIT - Nevermind that 3 for March, those are the LONG/LAT coordinates that and I am pretty sure the plaque was added when the statue was refurbished also I think the date on the plaque is wrong...

maltedfalcon wrote:: that and I am pretty sure the plaque was added when the statue was refurbished also I think the date on the plaque is wrong... Ah, thanks for the info!

Reporter claims a cable company with ground penetrating radar knows where it is. States this near 2:17 in the video. Can we find out where they have been working? https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/03/04/treasure-hunters-san-francisco-golden-gate-park/ He also says if you have any ideas on the location he will get dig permits for you.

maltedfalcon wrote:: that and I am pretty sure the plaque was added when the statue was refurbished also I think the date on the plaque is wrong... 1914?

Choice wrote:: 1914? yea off the top of my head. I think the plaque was off by a year or so...

https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/g ... 20111.html

I think the key for this image is the stem of the table outlined in blue. The table with the watch and the rose. I am not convinced it is the outline of a cable car. I think it is a real land mark that might be gone now. It is too specific a shape.

Dominick wrote:: I think the key for this image is the stem of the table outlined in blue. The table with the watch and the rose. I am not convinced it is the outline of a cable car. I think it is a real land mark that might be gone now. It is too specific a shape. Eventhough I haven't found an exact match, the rose granite base of this statue has some resemblances. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=1094&start=1061

Dominick wrote:: I think the key for this image is the stem of the table outlined in blue. The table with the watch and the rose. I am not convinced it is the outline of a cable car. I think it is a real land mark that might be gone now. It is too specific a shape. At one time I thought maybe it was a lighthouse .

MERLIN wrote:: At one time I thought maybe it was a lighthouse . I have looked at light houses, windmills, signs, light poles, and totem poles. I keep wondering if it is the "Giant pole" or if it is just a small garden light or the base of a drinking fountain. I think whatever it was might be gone. The park has had so many restorations sense 1982. It has to be a real thing in my mind. It is like the buildings in images 4,5, 10, and 12.

Dominick wrote:: I have looked at light houses, windmills, signs, light poles, and totem poles. I keep wondering if it is the "Giant pole" or if it is just a small garden light or the base of a drinking fountain. I think whatever it was might be gone. The park has had so many restorations sense 1982. It has to be a real thing in my mind. It is like the buildings in images 4,5, 10, and 12. One should not assume that the location is GGP and nowhere else in the city. The dragon may depict Lombard st. so anywhere around Lombard may be of interest i.e. Russian hill and Telegraph hill.

Choice wrote:: One should not assume that the location is GGP and nowhere else in the city. The dragon may depict Lombard st. so anywhere around Lombard may be of interest i.e. Russian hill and Telegraph hill. You are absolutely right. I just feel that there is other things in the image pointing to the park. But all of it is loose. I just started researching the Triumph of Light pedestal. I love the research as much as the hunt. I have learned so much about San Fran. When I go to the park with family we walk the popular theories and talk about the images and the book. Great fun.

Dominick wrote:: When I go to the park with family we walk the popular theories and talk about the images and the book. Great fun. me too, everytime me and my family drove thru Crossover Dr, I'll talk about how the image and verse mislead everyone to believe this is the correct park

"Winding" spiral stem of the rose; winding spring for a winding alarm clock. Spiral also spinning or turning symbol on the round table. Top part of the table's pedestal is silhouette of a cable car. Bottom part of the pedestal looks like a smoke stack. I think all these clues point to a cable car turntable. Here's a wikipedia description of cable car museum, 1201 Mason. (Masonic reference?!) “Exterior of the Ferries and Cliff House Railway Co. Building Constructed in 1887. Houses both the cable car winding station, engines, and museum. The smoke stack in the rear was damaged in the 1906 San Francisco earthquake, restored then soon decommissioned when steam power was replaced with electrical power at the winding station.” Also checkout the walkthrough link: http://tinyurl.com/y39ef8bl Here are 3 wooden posts near giant step: http://tinyurl.com/yye7ozb6

Spiritr wrote:: me too, everytime me and my family drove thru Crossover Dr, I'll talk about how the image and verse mislead everyone to believe this is the correct park You haven't found anything.

Dominick, get your shovel and go get it!

Choice wrote:: Dominick, get your shovel and go get it! Your theory, your dig. Good luck. I will stay in the park.

IF someone with an original copy of the book is willing to help me out with an observation in the image. The area in the image i am referring to is behind the table and leg to the open dark space to the right of the Gal. Does the dark area look like it is lighter or a comparison to chalk that is smeared on a Blackboard? I cant tell if the scans created this fading of color when scanned. upload

Yes they are lighter like acid washed or worn off fabric.

Choice wrote:: Yes they are lighter like acid washed or worn off fabric. Would possibly look like smeared chalk on a blackboard?

It's a bit foggy! Here are a couple of different exposures. https://imgur.com/a/1te8SuJ https://imgur.com/a/bhPVRQZ

Choice wrote:: It's a bit foggy! Here are a couple of different exposures. https://imgur.com/a/1te8SuJ https://imgur.com/a/bhPVRQZ Thanks!

maltedfalcon wrote:: I am pretty sure the plaque was added when the statue was refurbished also I think the date on the plaque is wrong... Are you sure? When was the statue was refurbished? What is the date (1914) wrong about? Sorry not trying to beat a dead horse but I've been seeing more:

So walking towards 1201 Mason, at 1000 Mason you are here: https://tinyurl.com/y9j3pak5

Here are some correlations between the symbols and the image in the same general area: Grace cathedral (cross + square/triangle symbol) 1000 California St. (2 mirrored half-circles) 1000 Mason St. (2 triangles + 4 circles)

It all seems too complicated compared to Chicago and Cleveland.

Dominick wrote:: It all seems too complicated compared to Chicago and Cleveland. Agree, I'd say the two finds covered the range of difficulty as well so majority should be comparable with only one or two outliers

Or the easiest and most specific ones got solved first and more vague with little landmark clues remain.

Or, all the specific details in the images are gone. I know that Golden Gate Park has changed A LOT in 37 years. There was a pretty major earthquake. There are new buildings, walkways, and plants. I have been focusing on finding old photos. This is very hard. There are not a lot of public photos from the 1980s.

Has anyone ever considered the pull up bars over by the polo field to be representative of "high posts are three"? I know the Japanese translation specified that these posts were made of wood. They have also been there since at least the 70's according to a few different sources. I couldn't find any mention of them while doing a thread search so I figured I'd mention it. I'm new to this puzzle and spend most of my time on Boston but I thought this might be somewhat helpful. They're located below the read arrow in the second picture.

Dominick wrote:: Or, all the specific details in the images are gone. I know that Golden Gate Park has changed A LOT in 37 years. There was a pretty major earthquake. There are new buildings, walkways, and plants. I have been focusing on finding old photos. This is very hard. There are not a lot of public photos from the 1980s. I would go through this entire thread. People have posted both photos and resources for finding old information. Not to mention, many theories over time.

Here's another interesting one. Across from those bars on the other edge of the polo field is a leg stretch exercise station that looks rather old. Maybe it represents the giant step?

mysteriousnesss wrote:: Here's another interesting one. Across from those bars on the other edge of the polo field is a leg stretch exercise station that looks rather old. Maybe it represents the giant step? LOL, look at the Google header in your image. Guess you aren't so mysteriousness, lol.

Pretty sure Andrew wong is just who took the panoramic photo I'm posting.

mysteriousnesss wrote:: Pretty sure Andrew wong is just who took the panoramic photo I'm posting. Ahh, so you are indeed mysterious. Getting back to your posts. I hate the idea of including playground equipment in these puzzles, but there is some evidence BP may have done just that in Milwaukee and Houston.

Well it's not exactly playground equipment. It seems like golden gate park is littered with various work out stations and they almost follow a path through the park.

mysteriousnesss wrote:: Well it's not exactly playground equipment. It seems like golden gate park is littered with various work out stations and they almost follow a path through the park. Similar though, and stuff with not a lot of permanency.

From the little information I can find it's called the Perrier Parcourse and was built around 1978.

gManTexas wrote:: Similar though, and stuff with not a lot of permanency. The use of playground equipment is better than trees I think, more permanency.

unless it was a tree we were meant to use. Everything has equal value if it was there 37 years ago.

mysteriousnesss wrote:: Here's another interesting one. Across from those bars on the other edge of the polo field is a leg stretch exercise station that looks rather old. Maybe it represents the giant step? If you're considering the polo field as giant pole then logically the giant step must be equally giant. This would give you two options: either the giant step is a sheer drop or cliff very close, or the location is the length of the polo field away.

I'm not making any assumptions here. I'm relatively new to this image/verse and only really started looking into it last year. I'm just putting what I find out there for others to explore. I don't expect to find myself in San Francisco any time soon. I only brought this up because after the Japanese translations came out it became pretty clear that Sutro Tower was not the "high posts are three" that BP was talking about. Thus I thought it might be interesting to explore other options. I just noticed today that some of the disputed symbols around the dragon could be representative of work out equipment. The course has a balance beam as well as rings and a chin up bar. Each station is also numbered. I understand that these were probably not meant to stand the test of time but it appears that they have been there and were maintained since 1978.

I guess what I'm saying is that it wouldn't hurt for someone local to go out and take a look in order to determine if this is in any way important. Since the fake casque was unearthed I figured it might be time to switch things up a bit and take a look from a new perspective.

Great initiative Mys. BTW these are all Verse 7 related posts.

Choice wrote:: Great initiative Mys. BTW these are all Verse 7 related posts. My apologies. I was only posting on this thread because it was both higher up and because my goal was to see if anything I posted could elicit any image matches.

Since pearl is birthstone of June and Juno is goddess of marriage, is she wearing anything that resembles a traditional wedding dress? I know Chinese like red and gold for good luck.

I mean, you can cut up the picture in to basic shapes and find basic shapes anywhere. The bottom of the dress is a right angle so any square could be a clue. The references in the solved images are clear. The focus should be historical photos from 1980s.

Choice wrote:: Great initiative Mys. BTW these are all Verse 7 related posts. Are people using a different verse for this image? I would like to know what people think.

Last time I checked people are using V5, 6, 7 and 10 for I1.

representing club V10 here~

Spiritr wrote:: representing club V10 here~ Which line or wording ties V10 to image 1 for you Spirtr?

bbi wrote:: Which city ties V10 to image 1 for you Spirtr? FTFY

bbi wrote:: Which line or wording ties V10 to image 1 for you Spirtr? Hirudiniforme wrote:: FTFY first 12 lines, and the last 9 lines words that ties to image... "v" and "B." The City That Knows How

Unknown: Are people using a different verse for this image? I would like to know what people think. I can't speak for anyone else, but I think that anyone who is trying to solve the SF puzzle using a Verse other than #7 (with Image #1) is wasting their time. Actually, I can speak for at least two others closely associated with the puzzle, at least anecdotally. In over 17 hours of podcasts, neither host (nor any of their guests for that matter), ever seriously suggested that the commonly accepted Image/Verse/City connections are incorrect. Not once.

Unknown: Are people using a different verse for this image? I would like to know what people think. I can't speak for anyone else, but I think that anyone who is trying to solve the SF puzzle using a Verse other than #7 (with Image #1) is wasting their time. Actually, I can speak for at least two others closely associated with the puzzle, at least anecdotally. In over 17 hours of podcasts, neither host (nor any of their guests for that matter), ever seriously suggested that the commonly accepted Image/Verse/City connections are incorrect. Not once.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: In over 17 hours of podcasts, neither host (nor any of their guests for that matter), ever seriously suggested that the commonly accepted Image/Verse/City connections are incorrect. Not once. Renovator, I love your work, and I especially enjoy the podcasts, but I have to respectfully disagree. I submitted that same question via Facebook to be asked on the podcast's SF episode, and MaltedFalcon did admit that nobody could really be sure of the correct Image/Verse pairing until a casque was dug up. Even with all the crazy "post-Expedition Unknown" theories being thrown around (wolves!!), I'm still cautious about being too closed-minded with this puzzle. Clinging too tightly to the "commonly accepted" connections is going to get us the same "commonly accepted" results... which is to say, no casques.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: In over 17 hours of podcasts, neither host (nor any of their guests for that matter), ever seriously suggested that the commonly accepted Image/Verse/City connections are incorrect. Not once. Renovator, I love your work, and I especially enjoy the podcasts, but I have to respectfully disagree. I submitted that same question via Facebook to be asked on the podcast's SF episode, and MaltedFalcon did admit that nobody could really be sure of the correct Image/Verse pairing until a casque was dug up. Even with all the crazy "post-Expedition Unknown" theories being thrown around (wolves!!), I 'm still cautious about being too closed-minded with this puzzle. Clinging too tightly to the "commonly accepted" connections is going to get us the same "commonly accepted" results... which is to say, no casques.

Sorry to interrupt but could the rose be a hint to dali's meditative rose? If so that may point us to Buddha statue and moon bridge and koi ponds.

Choice wrote:: Sorry to interrupt but could the rose be a hint to dali's meditative rose? If so that may point us to Buddha statue and moon bridge and koi ponds. Absolutely! Why not?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I can't speak for anyone else, but I think that anyone who is trying to solve the SF puzzle using a Verse other than #7 (with Image #1) is wasting their time. Actually, I can speak for at least two others closely associated with the puzzle, at least anecdotally. In over 17 hours of podcasts, neither host (nor any of their guests for that matter), ever seriously suggested that the commonly accepted Image/Verse/City connections are incorrect. Not once. What do you say we go fire up that slow spill thread and finish what got started? I ’d love to see how you guys thread all of the initial steps together. Honest statement.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: I can't speak for anyone else, but I think that anyone who is trying to solve the SF puzzle using a Verse other than #7 (with Image #1) is wasting their time. Actually, I can speak for at least two others closely associated with the puzzle, at least anecdotally. In over 17 hours of podcasts, neither host (nor any of their guests for that matter), ever seriously suggested that the commonly accepted Image/Verse/City connections are incorrect. Not once. What do you say we go fire up that slow spill thread and finish what got started? I’d love to see how you guys thread all of the initial steps together. Honest statement.

BINGO wrote:: What do you say we go fire up that slow spill thread and finish what got started? I ’d love to see how you guys thread all of the initial steps together. Honest statement. Everybody just stay calm... https:// i .ytimg.com/vi/WVHscEurAP0/hqdefault.jpg

BINGO wrote:: What do you say we go fire up that slow spill thread and finish what got started? I’d love to see how you guys thread all of the initial steps together. Honest statement. Everybody just stay calm... https://i.ytimg.com/vi/WVHscEurAP0/hqdefault.jpg

Unknown: Renovator, I love your work, and I especially enjoy the podcasts, Unknown: MaltedFalcon did admit that nobody could really be sure of the correct Image/Verse pairing until a casque was dug up. Unknown: Clinging too tightly to the "commonly accepted" connections is going to get us the same "commonly accepted" results... which is to say, no casques. To be clear, I have nothing to do with the podcasts, so I 'm not sure the compliment is intended for me. But I enjoyed them as well, so we have that in common. And yet, to the best of my knowledge, Matt hasn't used anything but Verse 7 for the last 10+ years in his quest to find the SF casque, to date unsuccessfully. Do you think for one minute that he thinks his lack of success is because he is using the wrong verse? Digging up a casque is hard enough if you have a general idea of where it's supposed to be. Just ask the Chicago Boys, or Andy and Brian. Under any other scenario, it's almost impossible. And we have hundreds, if not thousands of empty holes to prove it.

Unknown: Renovator, I love your work, and I especially enjoy the podcasts, Unknown: MaltedFalcon did admit that nobody could really be sure of the correct Image/Verse pairing until a casque was dug up. Unknown: Clinging too tightly to the "commonly accepted" connections is going to get us the same "commonly accepted" results... which is to say, no casques. To be clear, I have nothing to do with the podcasts, so I'm not sure the compliment is intended for me. But I enjoyed them as well, so we have that in common. And yet, to the best of my knowledge, Matt hasn't used anything but Verse 7 for the last 10+ years in his quest to find the SF casque, to date unsuccessfully. Do you think for one minute that he thinks his lack of success is because he is using the wrong verse? Digging up a casque is hard enough if you have a general idea of where it's supposed to be. Just ask the Chicago Boys, or Andy and Brian. Under any other scenario, it's almost impossible. And we have hundreds, if not thousands of empty holes to prove it.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: To be clear, I have nothing to do with the podcasts... Weak. You could have at least said "Renner's podcasts."

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: To be clear, I have nothing to do with the podcasts... Weak. You could have at least said "Renner's podcasts."

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: And yet, to the best of my knowledge, Matt hasn't used anything but Verse 7 for the last 10+ years in his quest to find the SF casque, to date unsuccessfully. Do you think for one minute that he thinks his lack of success is because he is using the wrong verse? Actually I am always going back and reviewing theories against other verses, for SF notably 6, but I am constantly checking other verses just in case. I look at it as I have not been unsuccessful, because I have successfully ruled out so many possibilities, ever slowly narrowing the search.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: And yet, to the best of my knowledge, Matt hasn't used anything but Verse 7 for the last 10+ years in his quest to find the SF casque, to date unsuccessfully. Do you think for one minute that he thinks his lack of success is because he is using the wrong verse? Actually I am always going back and reviewing theories against other verses, for SF notably 6, but I am constantly checking other verses just in case. I look at it as I have not been unsuccessful, because I have successfully ruled out so many possibilities, ever slowly narrowing the search.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Weak. You could have at least said "Renner's podcasts." Does Renner have podcasts?

Unknown: because I have successfully ruled out so many possibilities, ever slowly narrowing the search. The number of possibilities that you have ruled out is a rounding error compared to the number of possibilities. It's like trying to successfully complete a crossword puzzle by randomly inserting letters, and thinking that you are close because you have managed, by chance, to make a few words. But, to each his own I guess. I stand by my original comment.

Unknown: because I have successfully ruled out so many possibilities, ever slowly narrowing the search. The number of possibilities that you have ruled out is a rounding error compared to the number of possibilities. It's like trying to successfully complete a crossword puzzle by randomly inserting letters, and thinking that you are close because you have managed, by chance, to make a few words. But, to each his own I guess. I stand by my original comment.

JamesV wrote:: Renovator, I love your work, and I especially enjoy the podcasts, but I have to respectfully disagree. I submitted that same question via Facebook to be asked on the podcast's SF episode, and MaltedFalcon did admit that nobody could really be sure of the correct Image/Verse pairing until a casque was dug up. He's right. no one can be sure until a casque has been dug up. In the same vein no one can be sure Jimmy Carter isn't an alien lizard in Disguise until an autopsy is performed. Both are possible.... yet they are both unlikely. However, I would love to be proven wrong. JM actually used the SF verse in NOLA once to illustrate how verses could be matched to any city if you stretch them far enough... I can't speak for him but I think he would agree. Possible but unlikely.

Oh cool, another analogy. Let me write this down. It goes on the list on top of Matt's wright brothers and just below Gump's box of chocolate.

Choice wrote:: Oh cool, another analogy. Let me write this down. It goes on the list on top of Matt's wright brothers and just below Gump's box of chocolate. Life is like a box of alien lizard Jimmy Carters....

JamesV wrote:: Renovator, I love your work, and I especially enjoy the podcasts, but I have to respectfully disagree. I submitted that same question via Facebook to be asked on the podcast's SF episode, and MaltedFalcon did admit that nobody could really be sure of the correct Image/Verse pairing until a casque was dug up. Even with all the crazy "post-Expedition Unknown" theories being thrown around (wolves!!), I'm still cautious about being too closed-minded with this puzzle. Clinging too tightly to the "commonly accepted" connections is going to get us the same "commonly accepted" results... which is to say, no casques. Well stated, but I think the opposite is true. Not enough people have adhered to the rules of the original two casques and the research done on Q4T because it doesn't make them feel like a special snowflake puzzle genius. The methods for the found casks clearly show that having boots-on-the-ground images is key to solving the puzzles, yet rarely does someone go out and take a bunch of pictures of little-seen areas near where image matches abound. What is between the utility box and the freeway in 2C Charlesgate? Where do the tall palm trees/statue palms shadows fall at 4 PM in White Point Gardens in the appropriate month? To this day I have no idea what is between the Elizabethan Gardens and the crumbled gate. Rather than build off the decades-long work of others, people have dismissed it and tried to solve the puzzle using Google Streetview, even though to this day that wouldn't work for Chicago. Plus, the stubborn "well maybe you haven't found it because you're doing it all wrong" demeanor of a lot of the newer hunters has chased off the veteran researchers. This could have gone so right: A flood of people from EU taking pictures all over the areas where it might be could have led to multiple solves. But instead people just want to pick a location that feels good to them and cherry pick info to "support" their claim, or try to solve the whole puzzle from scratch without first taking the time to read through the entire q4t threads for their image and verse to see exactly where the bar is set so they can discard their new theory if it doesn't raise it. Case in point: New Orleans. People have been all over the place trying to pair verses with it, and coming up with bizarre new solving strategies like magnifying it and seeing imaginary figures in the brushstrokes. But JM, Brett Zingler, and Burnstyle just went to where the best image match was, poked around the areas where it could be seen, and found an amazingly striking image match in the form of a weird column.

Spiritr wrote:: words that ties to image... "v" and "B." Here's another connection to "v" and "B." : • Siddhartha has 3 vowels and sounds like Sidd-Hard-a • Island of Buddha • Peace lantern a good match for “V” • JJP’s signature may be the base of the Peace lantern and a clue • Pearl in the image could be the bird’s eye view of the lantern. Notice the halo around the pearl is not round but has multiple curved sides similar to the top of the lantern. It’s color is also verdigris. • The round handle on the table leg could be a clue to a teapot or tea garden • That pond looks like a genie lamp

drunknerds wrote:: To this day I have no idea what is between the Elizabethan Gardens and the crumbled gate. There is a walkthrough of the whole park on 12treasures.

Can anyone manipulate/enhance JJP's signature better? Looking at you Matt! I think Jude part of the signature after J starts with p. peace? I looked at the original edition image under mag glass and it does look like p after J.

drunknerds wrote:: Well stated, but I think the opposite is true. Not enough people have adhered to the rules of the original two casques and the research done on Q4T because it doesn't make them feel like a special snowflake puzzle genius. The methods for the found casks clearly show that having boots-on-the-ground images is key to solving the puzzles, yet rarely does someone go out and take a bunch of pictures of little-seen areas near where image matches abound. What is between the utility box and the freeway in 2C Charlesgate? Where do the tall palm trees/statue palms shadows fall at 4 PM in White Point Gardens in the appropriate month? To this day I have no idea what is between the Elizabethan Gardens and the crumbled gate. Rather than build off the decades-long work of others, people have dismissed it and tried to solve the puzzle using Google Streetview, even though to this day that wouldn't work for Chicago. Plus, the stubborn "well maybe you haven't found it because you're doing it all wrong" demeanor of a lot of the newer hunters has chased off the veteran researchers. This could have gone so right: A flood of people from EU taking pictures all over the areas where it might be could have led to multiple solves. But instead people just want to pick a location that feels good to them and cherry pick info to "support" their claim, or try to solve the whole puzzle from scratch without first taking the time to read through the entire q4t threads for their image and verse to see exactly where the bar is set so they can discard their new theory if it doesn't raise it. Case in point: New Orleans. People have been all over the place trying to pair verses with it, and coming up with bizarre new solving strategies like magnifying it and seeing imaginary figures in the brushstrokes. But JM, Brett Zingler, and Burnstyle just went to where the best image match was, poked around the areas where it could be seen, and found an amazingly striking image match in the form of a weird column. I have been to a number of the sites and taken a buttload of photos and video, and even back tracked and crisscrossed looking for things that stand out. I ran out of free cloud storage after posting everything for Milwaukee, and I'm not sure that I want to pay to share everything else. When you say "adhered to the rules of the original two casques", what exactly are you saying?

gManTexas wrote:: I ran out of free cloud storage after posting everything for Milwaukee, and I'm not sure that I want to pay to share everything else. I can give you an account on 12treasures and you can post as many images as you want. Ill pay for the storage.

Choice wrote:: Can anyone manipulate/enhance JJP's signature better? Looking at you Matt! I think Jude part of the signature after J starts with p. peace? I looked at the original edition image under mag glass and it does look like p after J. I cant enhance it more... but that particular signature looks like this: He has used it on a few other paintings... the chicago one for instance.

burnstyle wrote:: I can give you an account on 12treasures and you can post as many images as you want. Ill pay for the storage. I Emailed you.

Yes, I've compared his signatures. However my point is it looks like he's hiding a message in the signature. I clearly see a p instead of u in Jude. BTW the signature on the castle-hat painting is not in the book but on the painting on his website that has been down for awhile. http://www.johnjudepalencar.com/home.htm

drunknerds wrote:: Well stated, but I think the opposite is true. Not enough people have adhered to the rules of the original two casques and the research done on Q4T because it doesn't make them feel like a special snowflake puzzle genius. The methods for the found casks clearly show that having boots-on-the-ground images is key to solving the puzzles, yet rarely does someone go out and take a bunch of pictures of little-seen areas near where image matches abound. What is between the utility box and the freeway in 2C Charlesgate? Where do the tall palm trees/statue palms shadows fall at 4 PM in White Point Gardens in the appropriate month? To this day I have no idea what is between the Elizabethan Gardens and the crumbled gate. Rather than build off the decades-long work of others, people have dismissed it and tried to solve the puzzle using Google Streetview, even though to this day that wouldn't work for Chicago. Plus, the stubborn "well maybe you haven't found it because you're doing it all wrong" demeanor of a lot of the newer hunters has chased off the veteran researchers. This could have gone so right: A flood of people from EU taking pictures all over the areas where it might be could have led to multiple solves. But instead people just want to pick a location that feels good to them and cherry pick info to "support" their claim, or try to solve the whole puzzle from scratch without first taking the time to read through the entire q4t threads for their image and verse to see exactly where the bar is set so they can discard their new theory if it doesn't raise it. Case in point: New Orleans. People have been all over the place trying to pair verses with it, and coming up with bizarre new solving strategies like magnifying it and seeing imaginary figures in the brushstrokes. But JM, Brett Zingler, and Burnstyle just went to where the best image match was, poked around the areas where it could be seen, and found an amazingly striking image match in the form of a weird column. AMEN

Choice wrote:: Yes, I've compared his signatures. However my point is it looks like he's hiding a message in the signature. I clearly see a p instead of u in Jude. BTW the signature on the castle-hat painting is not in the book but on the painting on his website that has been down for awhile. http://www.johnjudepalencar.com/home.htm Hiding messages in his signature? Oh my

fox wrote:: Hiding messages in his signature? Oh my It may be that JJP just felt like it to sign only image 1 with his full signature IN THE BOOK that happened to be in the exact location and shape that the base of a lantern would be. I just thought it's worth mentioning. Also irregularity in Jude part of his signature is interesting too. All this set aside it seems to me that image one with all the half moon shapes and praying hand/meditation cliff shapes may be a good fit with verse 10 with all the references I mentioned in my last couple of posts. So the starting point may be the old De Young Museum that had half moon arched front entrance. In it's shadow or next to it is Japanese garden. Find Buddha statue and his raised arm points to a narrow path, so someone local should scout the area. Google map has a very limited and inconsistent path walkthrough but here are a few points of interest: Buddha https://tinyurl.com/yyknat4q Moon Bridge https://tinyurl.com/y5x7jzck Pagoda https://tinyurl.com/y6zytz63 Peace Lantern https://tinyurl.com/y5d9at87

Choice wrote:: Peace Lantern https://tinyurl.com/y5d9at87 I think someone else a while back had that same thought about the lantern (may have been Kang?) as it also appears to have the JJP initials on it:

Kang mentioned that JJP's full signature is present in image 3 at the bottom of the pedestal area. I do see something faint there that has the same outline i.e. straight line at the bottom of writing but can't make it out. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=7341&p=144385&hilit=+signature#p144385

Now all you need to find is a giant pole and step that doesn't involve jumping off a cliff!

bbi wrote:: ... as it also appears to have the JJP initials on it You could move that 2nd J over a bit and add the P. Doesn't that picket fence gate look like the wooden version of Chicago gate? https://tinyurl.com/y5gkvz3k

So this may be the two branches of V V for peace

bbi wrote:: I think someone else a while back had that same thought about the lantern (may have been Kang?) as it also appears to have the JJP initials on it. Indeed I have mentioned it. Though not sure if I did here. Above is my take on it. Slight enhancement to bring out the signature a bit more. I'm no expert on his signature, but the swoop off the end of the 'r' didn't seem to appear on any other examples I could find. I thought that odd and wondered why. Until I saw the lantern. Seems like it could be a stylized match to the table icon - with the signature as the base. (The table support also may appear to have a tea pot in it which would make sense with the lantern being in the tea garden). Just my opinion. No angry letters please...

Unknown: But JM, Brett Zingler, and Burnstyle just went to where the best image match was, poked around the areas where it could be seen, and found an amazingly striking image match in the form of a weird column. Scoreboard.

I'll ask the question because I honestly don't know the correct answer. Is Bret the guy who created the thread last year with a NOLA solution? The one that contained pics with the match to the columns that were promptly removed? Then, if I recall, the thread was turned into a meat smoking recipe conversation.

Unknown: Is Bret the guy who created the thread last year with a NOLA solution? Which one? By my count, there are at least 5 people who have claimed to know exactly where the casque is in New Orleans in the last year alone. Which is only a problem because by my reconning, the only thing all five places have in common is that they are all in New Orleans. I think Bret posted here as roughdraft274. The thread he started is entitled "I Believe I've Solved New Orleans" and is currently at the bottom of Page 6 of this forum. The pictures of which you speak are on Page 9 of that thread. His theory, if I'm not mistaken, is what led JM and George to explore that patch of land next to Gallier Hall (across from Lafayette Square) and where George found the bits of plexiglass and ceramic. Hope that helps.

That was the thread I was speaking of. The pics may be back, but I vividly remember them disappearing. Then the pulled pork convo began. Since this was a scoreboard situation, I just wanted to make sure Roughdraft got his rightful credit. I have to admit, that was a pretty cool find when it started to unfold.

Durian wrote:: So we have in this one location: 1. A reversed "G" and "h" Here's something to consider: The theme of her robe is asian. You can see the arched gate Paifang in Chinese or Torii in Japanese right below the pearl. Ghirardelli is certainly a San Francisco icon; so reversed Gh would be an automatic connection. Lets just suppose the location is Hagiwara Garden and you want to insert a hint into the image. You could put H and G on top of the arch but what's the fun of that! How about revered GH for a bit of misdirection?

Choice wrote:: Here's something to consider: The theme of her robe is asian. You can see the arched gate Paifang in Chinese or Torii in Japanese right below the pearl. Ghirardelli is certainly a San Francisco icon; so reversed Gh would be an automatic connection. Lets just suppose the location is Hagiwara Garden and you want to insert a hint into the image. You could put H and G on top of the arch but what's the fun of that! How about revered GH for a bit of misdirection? Although BP seems to have always used upper case for proper names so, why would he use a lower case h for Hagiwara?

maltedfalcon wrote:: Although BP seems to have always used upper case for proper names so, why would he use a lower case h for Hagiwara? As I mentioned, for a bit of misdirection. And it would be way too obvious clue if he did use H.

The theory is that since we read from left to right -- instead of writing "H G" that would be way too obvious, he reversed the "G h" to show the correct position of the letters as a clue to switch the G and h. As a misdirection to Ghirardelli he made the "H" lower case. As to sweet smell, you're making the assumption that V7 is matched to I1. That is not settled. BTW Rose Garden is right next door across the JFK Dr. for sweet smell.

I had a similar theory when I was a baby that got me to a different location. Even to Coit tower and the counter clockwise running cars around the statue. viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=counter+clockwise+running&start=2602

A few thoughts, welcome to chime in. Both fingers pointing towards the horizontal line on both sides of the image. So I connect those lines that look like the top of a wall or platform. Then the top part of the image will look like she's sitting in a crossed leg position. Rose is similar to Dali's "Meditative Rose". Leaves are similar to Bodhi tree leaves. Triratna, ying yang and moon bridge with it's reflection present in the image.

If that is a strawberry under her arms and that is a reference to Strawberry Hill and her arms are Crossover Drive, than where the dragons open hand is matches the Great Meadow. The dragons closed hand is over Shakespeare's Garden. The pearl at her neck is the same distance as the closed dragon hand. If you fold the image at the arms the pearl is in Shakespeare's Garden. I am just throwing out ideas. I want the real San Fran one found to disprove Gerald.

Dominick wrote:: If that is a strawberry under her arms and that is a reference to Strawberry Hill and her arms are Crossover Drive, than where the dragons open hand is matches the Great Meadow. The dragons closed hand is over Shakespeare's Garden. The pearl at her neck is the same distance as the closed dragon hand. If you fold the image at the arms the pearl is in Shakespeare's Garden. I am just throwing out ideas. I want the real San Fran one found to disprove Gerald. I like your zeal, but much of this has already been covered many times over the years. What we need is people to go take photos and videos to see if anything new shakes loose. Are you local?

I like your zeal, but much of this has already been covered many times over the years. What we need is people to go take photos and videos to see if anything new shakes loose. Are you local?[/quote] Bay area, but not the city. Vacaville.

Unknown: I want the real San Fran one found to disprove Gerald. While finding the authentic casque would be the ultimate proof, I don't think we really need more evidence to conclude that Dr.Gay is perpetrating a hoax. As has been shown, the Forum is pretty good at sniffing out fakes and frauds.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: While finding the authentic casque would be the ultimate proof, I don't think we really need more evidence to conclude that Dr.Gay is perpetrating a hoax. As has been shown, the Forum is pretty good at sniffing out fakes and frauds. I disagree. He has stated that he believe his casque is real and the only one who can prove him wrong is dead. He is already using this "find" for his benefit. Byron is the only one that buried the casque. We can talk to as many people as we can who knew him, worked with him, and worked on the book but it doesn't unless we are told where the casque was buried by some one who knows. Gerald can say he found it. Gerald is creating his own reality.

Dominick wrote:: I disagree. He has stated that he believe his casque is real and the only one who can prove him wrong is dead. His logic is flawed. The maker of the cask is alive and well and she already dismissed Gay's cask as a fake. Why are we still talking about that guy? To steal a line from Mr. Wonderful: "he's dead to me!" Soooo... here's another layout correlation with image:

This looks like the pearl from the image - https://c8.alamy.com/comp/H2JMJ7/aerial ... H2JMJ7.jpg

For any GGP'ers, this map is 2/3 years out from the ideal date (1981/82) but this 1984 Map & Guide to Golden Gate Park is pretty detailed, maybe one of you already have a copy. But I've just quickly scanned it. I know that GGP has soccer fields but when I saw the soccer fields in this map and their location at the end of the park I couldn't help but think of the double "D" (half circles located at the bottom of the dress). Also, and I believe it has been discussed before but I know very little about American football (as I'm originally from the UK and I like football football). But are field goals worth 3 points? ball over the high posts, 3 points? Sorry if thats not helpful, just got me thinking when I saw this map and its illustrations of things https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing Right back to verse13, Valkyrie's... Ravens....Native Indian's.... arrrhgghhh

Valuable key rise, win dough

bbi wrote:: For any GGP'ers, this map is 2/3 years out from the ideal date Do you mind if I post that on 12treasures?

burnstyle wrote:: Do you mind if I post that on 12treasures? Sure, no problem. Anything to help.

Choice wrote:: Valuable key rise, win dough Thats good I've been looking and thinking like this at everyday objects lately. Driving me crazy.

bbi wrote:: For any GGP'ers, this map is 2/3 years out from the ideal date (1981/82) but this 1984 Map & Guide to Golden Gate Park is pretty detailed, maybe one of you already have a copy. But I've just quickly scanned it. I know that GGP has soccer fields but when I saw the soccer fields in this map and their location at the end of the park I couldn't help but think of the double "D" (half circles located at the bottom of the dress). Also, and I believe it has been discussed before but I know very little about American football (as I'm originally from the UK and I like football football). But are field goals worth 3 points? ball over the high posts, 3 points? Sorry if thats not helpful, just got me thinking when I saw this map and its illustrations of things https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing Right back to verse13, Valkyrie's... Ravens....Native Indian's.... arrrhgghhh Nice find!

bbi wrote:: But are field goals worth 3 points? ball over the high posts, 3 points? Sorry if thats not helpful, just got me thinking when I saw this map and its illustrations of things I saw nobody answered this part of your post. Yes. Field goals are worth 3 points in gridiron football.

bbi wrote:: For any GGP'ers, this map is 2/3 years out from the ideal date (1981/82) but this 1984 Map & Guide to Golden Gate Park is pretty detailed, maybe one of you already have a copy. But I've just quickly scanned it. I know that GGP has soccer fields but when I saw the soccer fields in this map and their location at the end of the park I couldn't help but think of the double "D" (half circles located at the bottom of the dress). Also, and I believe it has been discussed before but I know very little about American football (as I'm originally from the UK and I like football football). But are field goals worth 3 points? ball over the high posts, 3 points? Sorry if thats not helpful, just got me thinking when I saw this map and its illustrations of things https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ ... sp=sharing Right back to verse13, Valkyrie's... Ravens....Native Indian's.... arrrhgghhh Thank you for the map. I have been trying to find high post that are not the Sutro tower. I like your thoughts. I don't know what field goals are worth but goal posts have been touched on before. It is always good to rethink all of the questions raised on this forum. I am planning to go out and dig as soon as I can get away from work. I have already used a probe in a area but I have been thinking I am still off a bit. This is so difficult.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: I saw nobody answered this part of your post. Yes. Field goals are worth 3 points in gridiron football. WOO HOO!

Merlot Brougham wrote:: I saw nobody answered this part of your post. Yes. Field goals are worth 3 points in gridiron football. Thanks for the clarification Merlot.

As long as they are wooden posts!

Choice wrote:: As long as they are wooden posts! I am not 100% convinced that they made of wood. BP may have been trying to describe to the Japanese what a "post" is. Not a mail post or a military post more like a wooden post. Or this is a straight up clue that they are made of wood. IDK

I'm not sure if this is anything new but I thought I'd point out something I noticed the other day while trying to make the Chinese connection. The symbol on the left side of the middle section of the image looks pretty similar to this design I noticed inside/outside the Chinese Pavilion in GGP. I know the pavilion was opened in 1981 but do we know with certainty if it was there or not when BP buried the casques?

Never mind. As I'm going back through the posts this has clearly been mentioned before.

Welcome to the hunt. I did the same thing.

Goonie68 wrote:: blackwood movie plot There was (may be still is) a similar looking statue at Old St. Mary's Church in Chinatown.

RViewer1... Why are you rearranging the verse to put the first 2 lines last? X

XeroDM wrote:: RViewer1... Why are you rearranging the verse to put the first 2 lines last? X Because it doesn’t have to be linear.

I think this could of been more of an inspiration for the Gal. There was (may be still is) a similar looking statue at Old St. Mary's Church in Chinatown. [/quote]

Rviewer1 wrote:: Because it doesn’t have to be linear. So, I guess my question is why? Why doesn't it have to be linear, and why take those lines and rearrange them? Why not read the whole thing backwards, why not read every second line? What makes those lines so special, or what is telling you to take those lines and put them where you have? Surely it's not just an arbitrary choice? Why would BP require us to rearrange his lines, and if he did require us, when has he told us to do so? X

The lines “Giant Pole” and “Giant Step” seemed to vague to get me to an exact location. But when I found a Giant Totem Pole that gave me an exact direction( where the faces were looking ) to a Giant Step that led very close to a literal stone walls door, it became intuitive to move the first line to the last.

Rviewer1 wrote:: The lines “Giant Pole” and “Giant Step” seemed to vague to get me to an exact location. But when I found a Giant Totem Pole that gave me an exact direction( where the faces were looking ) to a Giant Step that led very close to a literal stone walls door, it became intuitive to move the first line to the last. I guess where I'm going is... be careful of changing the puzzle to suit your theory instead of changing your theory to suit the puzzle. Otherwise, the possible outcomes exponentially increase. You could take a giant step from Ace is high, anywhere that the air smells sweet, anything to do with education and justice, and the list goes on. It makes more sense to follow in order, or to change order because it's backed up strongly by something in the image or verse itself. X

Reverse order to the verse has merit supported by the reversed letters and reverse layout of the dress clock. And since this clock runs from 0 to 7 may be a confirmer of the 8 lines to the verse 7.

Reviewer1, When was the pole moved? This postcard from 1983 shows it closer to Sutro Heights.

Choice wrote:: Reviewer1, When was the pole moved? This postcard from 1983 shows it closer to Sutro Heights. https://i.imgur.com/3ToGiB5.jpg From what I can tell, it's been there since the 1950s. Originally it was closer to the Sutro Baths (north of the Cliff House), shortened by storm damage, and later moved. The Cliff House itself has undergone renovation over the decades. https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/t ... house.html (I'm not sure why you included the other two images. Please just post the URLs without embedding the images.)

Back of the post card has the date of 1983 and menu from the restaurant of the period has image on top that may be helpful.

A rumor started on the wiki that Josh Gates will be digging in San Fran soon. Any one heard about this?

Dominick wrote:: A rumor started on the wiki that Josh Gates will be digging in San Fran soon. Any one heard about this? A reporter on KPIX did a story about the hoax and mentioned that someone "assured" him that they know where the casque is buried, but they were under contract with a cable channel so they weren't talking to him. That could be what he was talking about, he didn't give any other details.

Goonie68 wrote:: I think this could of been more of an inspiration for the Gal. Looking at the gal's mouth you can see she's mouthing something that ends in "O". She may be Juliet standing on a balcony with railing and arched window. "Rooo meooo... Rooo meooo"

Choice wrote:: Looking at the gal's mouth you can see she's mouthing something that ends in "O". She may be Juliet standing on a balcony with railing and arched window. "Rooo meooo... Rooo meooo" https://brobible.files.wordpress.com/20 ... y=90&w=650

I have never tried to lip read a painting before.

lol, well her mouth is semi-open. It's somewhat safe to assume that the artist is trying to convey a message.

Choice wrote:: lol, well her mouth is semi-open. It's somewhat safe to assume that the artist is trying to convey a message. no it is not safe to assume that. please stop posting every moronic thought the enters you head

That was not nice.

Dominick wrote:: That was not nice. I am truly sorry but he is worse than Josh Cornell in is rapid posting of nonsense

Everyone is a critic as usual. But if the cask turns out to be behind the Shakespeare wall a lot of people will look like fools.

I see nothing wrong with stirring the pot with fresh ideas, specially when a puzzle has been stagnate for decades. Yes, some ideas might seen dumb but they still draw attention to something that some one might have missed. Did I laugh when Choice proposed that the lady in the image was mouthing something? Yes, yes I did. I even posted about it. But I did not insult or demean the poster. I never really looked at the mouth of the lady in detail before. I have now. Did it help, I don't know. Your negative comment is less helpful then Choices strange post. At leased after reading Choice's post I wanted to look at the image again. French doctors are faking finds! Lets work together and not insult each other.

Goldengate wrote:: You live an hour away. Why don't you go and find out? (Also, others have dug there.) I originally asked if anyone poked around back there and no one cared to respond. So I assumed it wasn't explored from lack of participation including you. Now why should I go dig there if it's already been dug? Make sense and please don't PM me your vacation pics again like Hannibal Lecter.

If you're so concerned about my post count then stop trolling me so I don't have to rebuff you and the rest of the frustrated clowns. That probably accounts for half of my posts.

I may have a chance to buy a 1982 Japanese edition. How much are they worth?

Rviewer1 wrote:: I may have a chance to buy a 1982 Japanese edition. How much are they worth? The auction for the Japanese copy he is talking about is here: https://www.ebay.com/itm/133023500963 No one really knows what they are worth. only 2 have been sold in the US that we know of. they sold for $1,400 for a pair.

Just buy the American version. Much better price right now. The Japanese one is going to be way high at the end of auction. http://tinyurl.com/y3nqe96w http://tinyurl.com/y2pmere9

Thanks guys. I have an original English 1982 edition. I was just trying to get a Japanese one to. What other languages were they written in. I want a different interpretation of the 3 high posts, Giant Pole,Giant Step and Stone Walls Door why we are at it.

Rviewer1 wrote:: I want a different interpretation of the 3 high posts, Giant Pole,Giant Step and Stone Walls Door why we are at it. There is a translation of the japanese hints section (which includes all of those) on 12treasures.com

Hey all... Just wondering if anyone has any thoughts as to what the symbols on the shoulders mean? The Circle, Square (her Right shoulder) and Square, Triangle (her Left shoulder). They are a gaping hole in my theory, and it's annoy the heck out of me. I have looked into survey marks, hobo code, Numerical code (0, 4, 4, 3), direction (NSEW- renders one illegible order), and using it as a key to work out another code on the image, plus I have searched other people's theories (this part is commonly left undecoded.) I have also investigated these in reverse orders due to the mirrored hG. There seems to be no connection between the symbols and the verses either, so may be boots on ground contextualised. All to no avail. Does anyone have any novel ideas outside of the ones already posted by me or others? X

Does anyone who has been deep into the San Francisco hunt think there is a possibility that Byron Preiss may not have known that Sutro Heights Park was off limits? I’m a local who put boots on the ground at SHP and studied every page here and have spent a couple hours a day working on some part of this puzzle but yet somehow I missed that it was under the jurisdiction of the NPS. But 2 blocks away GGP was SFPR.

Rviewer1 wrote:: Does anyone who has been deep into the San Francisco hunt think there is a possibility that Byron Preiss may not have known that Sutro Heights Park was off limits? I’m a local who put boots on the ground at SHP and studied every page here and have spent a couple hours a day working on some part of this puzzle but yet somehow I missed that it was under the jurisdiction of the NPS. But 2 blocks away GGP was SFPR. I don't think he would have entered the Presidio at all. and while to this day I cannot imagine him inside the FOY at St. Augustine or in a National Park in Charleston. in the 80s Lands End was wide open and I doubt he would have even thought about it at all.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I don't think he would have entered the Presidio at all. and while to this day I cannot imagine him inside the FOY at St. Augustine or in a National Park in Charleston. in the 80s Lands End was wide open and I doubt he would have even thought about it at all. Thanks for letting me know that. That’s a tough one for me. I know everyone thinks their solution is the right one. I had this one at 75% that it was the correct solution and the NPS won’t even let me probe it. That is not surprising though. There is a definite possibility that the casque is there and we will never know. Maybe I could hire a Seal Team to parachute in with their night vision and bring me back the casque. So now I guess my only move is to concentrate on the 25% part that I was wrong and start working on a new solution.

The left arm of the Gal is a pretty spot on match to the the Headlands above the GG Bridge.

That is really cool, Goonie!

The Gal's right arm is a good match for Angel Island

So following this line of thought, if you connect the two spots pointed by the fingers the line goes right through Alcatraz; a no dig zone. I previously posted a dig site at the doorway of the collapsed building near the water tower (the hexagon blue thing). viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=3836

Choice wrote:: So following this line of thought, if you connect the two spots pointed by the fingers the line goes right through Alcatraz; a no dig zone. I previously posted a dig site at the doorway of the collapsed building near the water tower (the hexagon blue thing). viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=3836 I think it's more of a geographical hint, that these two area's are outside the city. I don't believe that the outer part of the sleeves are meant to be anymore than Land marks, but the inner part of the sleeve's (blocks) are meant to be city blocks, which I think play's a Big part in finding the casque location.

I still don't get what any of this got to do with Chinese immigration. Angel island, Chinatown ...

Hey Matt (this should be an app!) Has anyone tried to get an image match to the cliffs at the Cliff House? I just have Google and some old postcards to work with. https://tinyurl.com/y4zy4554

What’s up with the SF group. This place has gone silent. Can we get some updates on what people are working on. I and another member on this forum are going to be doing a little poking around in the GGP/Cliff House area towards the end of June. Hopefully we will have some good news. I think Matt is still up at TLOH? Any updates. I think Goldengate is on strawberry hill somewhere by the Chinese pavilion? Let’s get some updates from those who have not thrown in the towel. Let’s get some synergy going! For those who have come up with a solution that makes digging not an alternative. I would urge them to try an alternate solution. Give it a go. Adapt! I thought some of my earlier solutions were 99.9 percent correct but found that the area had been dug up after 1982. So I moved on and was surprised that my new solution was even better than the prior one.

Rviewer1 wrote:: What’s up with the SF group. This place has gone silent. Can we get some updates on what people are working on. I and another member on this forum are going to be doing a little poking around in the GGP/Cliff House area towards the end of June. Hopefully we will have some good news. I think Matt is still up at TLOH? Any updates. I think Goldengate is on strawberry hill somewhere by the Chinese pavilion? Let’s get some updates from those who have not thrown in the towel. Let’s get some synergy going! For those who have come up with a solution that makes digging not an alternative. I would urge them to try an alternate solution. Give it a go. Adapt! I thought some of my earlier solutions were 99.9 percent correct but found that the area had been dug up after 1982. So I moved on and was surprised that my new solution was even better than the prior one. Update: Image wall behind the Gal, Chalk Board, Chalk Boards are made out of Slate (stone) Maritime Museum entrance and walls are made out of Slate (stone) "At stone wall's door"...... https://ibb.co/JHNVG8j https://ibb.co/vsdF28H

Goonie68 wrote:: Update: Image wall behind the Gal, Chalk Board, Chalk Boards are made out of Slate (stone) Maritime Museum entrance and walls are made out of Slate (stone) "At stone wall's door"...... https://ibb.co/JHNVG8j https://ibb.co/vsdF28H Good stuff Goonie! BTW I can see a fish up top in that mural that is a duplicate of the fish in the image. Also if that is your starting point do you have an end point in mind? Thanks for the update

Rviewer1 wrote:: What’s up with the SF group. This place has gone silent. Can we get some updates on what people are working on. I and another member on this forum are going to be doing a little poking around in the GGP/Cliff House area towards the end of June. Hopefully we will have some good news. I think Matt is still up at TLOH? Any updates. I think Goldengate is on strawberry hill somewhere by the Chinese pavilion? Let’s get some updates from those who have not thrown in the towel. Let’s get some synergy going! For those who have come up with a solution that makes digging not an alternative. I would urge them to try an alternate solution. Give it a go. Adapt! I thought some of my earlier solutions were 99.9 percent correct but found that the area had been dug up after 1982. So I moved on and was surprised that my new solution was even better than the prior one. I got some people to dig at Verdi in April after the Dr Gay fiasco. Dug directly in line with the pole on the statue. Came up zeros. Seemed like a good idea but nothing resulted. Was well dug and documented. Posted on the wiki and a link on this board with solution and photos of dig. I am happy to say it's not there. There was another dig done at Verdi, behind the statue, also came up negative. The diggers identified another possible site, but I haven't heard back from them as to whether or not they have gone back. Highly doubtful they did. May be worth considering in the future. My main sticking point at this time with image 1 is the 4 symbols across the top of the dress- circle, squares and triangle. I feel they might do a final refinement, and because we don't understand them, we didn't get to the right location. XdM

I do like the Gulliver's Travels tie in to the puzzle, there was a movie in 1977 Gulliver's Travels, and the book is something we as youths would of read so I can see how this could be a reference, tho I personally think the step is a physical object like the pole

Durian wrote:: After decades of speculation by probably hundreds of people as to what exactly constitutes a 'giant step,' nobody here is excited that Preiss appears to have given us such a clear-cut hint that there is a numerical answer to this question: 10 yards? Especially when you consider there have been plenty if theories where the Giant step was resolved to a specific distance. and considering this was theoretically an easy one I suspect adding layers of literature clues is problematic that the japanese clues for SF did not reference a particular book for research it makes more sense that the Giant step is simply a large horizontal or vertical human step.

The topic of Giant Step has inspired this experiment. 3 people (volunteers) 2 people of height of 5'6 1 person of height of 6'1 Giant step : front toe on base line, to front toe on the measured line This experiment shows that a person 5'6 and a person 6'1 a difference of about 9 inches in separation between the two giant steps, Is it possible that a 5 inch box could be missed with the interpretation of one's Giant step? https://ibb.co/9yMQKcy

Giant step could also be equal length (height) as giant pole; using one Giant as a unit of measurement. This also may work with Durian's spot.

Goonie68 wrote:: Is it possible that a 5 inch box could be missed with the interpretation of one's Giant step? https://ibb.co/9yMQKcy not if you dig a big enough hole...

maltedfalcon wrote:: not if you dig a big enough hole... That would be the Willhouse effect.

Durian, if the casque was in maritime park it is probably gone if not the limited amount of area where it could be could be easily checked when you say "extremely good match " I tend to tune out since chicago and cleveland had exact matches, there are extremely good matches all over SF Yes there is a huge difference between the image artwork sources and your literature reference that is nobody actually needed to find the image artwork sources to figure out the puzzles they were noticed as an after the fact easter egg your idea requires the discovery of that clue before finding the casque location. the 11 letters = moons has always seemed to me to be a stretch and again the Gh is not the same font as the sign (see the part about exact match above) and lastly a vertical step as a giant step distance really would not matter. just bigger than a normal step - something you would need to jump down or climb up but since you have a distance length and direction dig it up and prove me wrong... Not that I wasn't there at one time, now I just don't think it is anywhere around there. still best of luck!

Setting Gulliver quote aside, if your location is correct then looking at the "Giant pole, Giant step" could mean that the pole and step are the same size. Don't be concerned if the tower is taller than the space between the stone and the tower. It won't be under the stone but a few feet away.

maltedfalcon wrote:: but since you have a distance length and direction dig it up and prove me wrong... That's the whole point. He can't get permission to dig.

Choice wrote:: Setting Gulliver quote aside, if your location is correct then looking at the "Giant pole, Giant step" could mean that the pole and step are the same size. Don't be concerned if the tower is taller than the space between the stone and the tower. It won't be under the stone but a few feet away. Question: Do you think BP would have people digging holes next to a monument that is important to the City of San Francisco a few feet away? If 5 people came to this very spot(not at the same time) and dug they would tear the S%%H out of the place destroying the area around the monument, Yes? No?

Choice wrote:: That's the whole point. He can't get permission to dig. great use a boroscope and prove me wrong.

maltedfalcon wrote:: great use a boroscope and prove me wrong. Do you think it's legal to probe?

I don't think it's legal to probe either. But the whole area is too exposed for my taste.

Choice wrote:: I don't think it's legal to probe either. But the whole area is too exposed for my taste. If it was legal I have the equipment to boroscope it, if not don't want jail time, got a job and bills LOL

I have a couple of issues with Durian's solve. The stem of the rose (Angel Island) is coming from the south side of the island. I think the port was to the north-east of the island. Alternatively the stem could be GG Bridge. Then the perspective from Marina wouldn't be right. You have to be standing way in the west for GG bridge to seem coming out of Angel Island. Somewhere around Cliff House or China Beach. Both these places also end up with spirals; Point Lobos turn up the trail to Sutro heights or the winding trail to China Beach. Also the clock/compass shadow points to W not E.

I'm not saying that everything must be to scale or at right place. Afterall I have the Belv./Tiburon attached to cliff house. I'm thinking the GG Bridge seemingly coming out of Angel Island may be a hint to find a place that this may be visually plausible.

How about Jack and the beanstalk? Beanstalk and leaves all over the table. Reference to giant and smell. Stonewall Jackson – Jackson Square; the original location of Ghirardelli

maltedfalcon wrote:: the 11 letters = moons has always seemed to me to be a stretch and again the Gh is not the same font as the sign (see the part about exact match above) A lifetime ago I explained the 11 moons as the element NA or Sodium. The electrons of an atom are often compared to moons of a planet. It got me to Port of San Francisco Ferry Building with a bit of word play. NA is for Natrium. N-atrium or an atrium. Ferry building is practically a 2 football field long atrium. Is the Ghirardelli Square considered an atrium? It kinda fits the definition.

what if what we think are moons are actually pearls - https://giphy.com/gifs/funny-seinfeld-E ... fullscreen

There is two things going on with the upper portion of the image, objects of the same thing, and many of them. The most common association to the objects would be the appearance of moons, the image has more than one, so is this a hint to count them? If that is the case then we have 11, two separate clues. Now to associate these clues with a location, Moon = planets = out space = astronomy = a place to observe or to do with observation, 11 is there a place that is associated with the # 11, a place = address = street? The clues in the image are supporting a physical place that we need to confirm we are moving in the correct direction. This is how i see how this works, am I wrong?

Also 11 moons for 11th month, November meaning 9th. XI, Chinese name from Xi Zhong, credited with inventing the carriage, who lived during the Xia dynasty (2205–1766 bc).

Choice wrote:: Also 11 moons for 11th month, November meaning 9th. XI, Chinese name from Xi Zhong, credited with inventing the carriage, who lived during the Xia dynasty (2205–1766 bc). Is there a place in the City that can connect to Xi Zhong?

I don't know. But there's a clear connection to 9th ave and GGP

I don't know. But there's a clear connection to 9th ave and GGP

Choice wrote:: I don't know. But there's a clear connection to 9th ave and GGP Ok cool, at what point in the puzzle do you think this connects? beginning middle or end?

Choice wrote:: I don't know. But there's a clear connection to 9th ave and GGP Ok cool, at what point in the puzzle do you think this connects? beginning middle or end?

Looking at the map of the GGP it seems to be the entrance to the park.

Looking at the map of the GGP it seems to be the entrance to the park.

Choice wrote:: Looking at the map of the GGP it seems to be the entrance to the park. Is there a stone wall's door to connect to this entrance or near by?

Choice wrote:: Looking at the map of the GGP it seems to be the entrance to the park. Is there a stone wall's door to connect to this entrance or near by?

Looks like the entrance to the park at 9th is the location of the Hall of Flowers and the Big Rec ball field.

Looks like the entrance to the park at 9th is the location of the Hall of Flowers and the Big Rec ball field.

You're making a lot of assumptions here. Verse 7/correct order may not be the right one. It may be the reverse order or even other suggested verses. We can't solve 40 years of conflict today.

You're making a lot of assumptions here. Verse 7/correct order may not be the right one. It may be the reverse order or even other suggested verses. We can't solve 40 years of conflict today.

My thinking is, why use so much of the image to tell us Look at the Ghirardelli sign, if the Gh are what this is supposed to be , then why waste ,moons and numbers to tell us this is the sign when solely the Gh can do that with one hint? As i have explained before, I think this is a hint to Galileo and Polk street, where Polk street runs right into the Maritime Museum entrance. "At stone wall's door" With a Map of 1981 that has the word "At" where the stone wall is located, this to me is the most connected clue besides the Lat and long. A map of 1981 that connects the stone wall to a physical place! The word At on the map is also with a capital A, as the beginning of the verse, this to me is very solid backed by published information. https://ibb.co/5GDLkNZ

My thinking is, why use so much of the image to tell us Look at the Ghirardelli sign, if the Gh are what this is supposed to be , then why waste ,moons and numbers to tell us this is the sign when solely the Gh can do that with one hint? As i have explained before, I think this is a hint to Galileo and Polk street, where Polk street runs right into the Maritime Museum entrance. "At stone wall's door" With a Map of 1981 that has the word "At" where the stone wall is located, this to me is the most connected clue besides the Lat and long. A map of 1981 that connects the stone wall to a physical place! The word At on the map is also with a capital A, as the beginning of the verse, this to me is very solid backed by published information. https://ibb.co/5GDLkNZ

Durian wrote:: I don't think of the additional hints at Ghirardelli as wasted. I view them as confirmation you are in the right spot. The map is interesting, but aside from nods to some of the murals in the museum and on it's northward facing outer wall, I've found nothing concrete for the Maritime Museum. Certainly not it's front. Why do you feel the museum fits the 'air smells sweet' part of the verse? "The air smells sweet" is a nod to move towards Ghirardelli from the entrance of the Museum (east) to me the chocolate colored rocks and the Gh give you a confirmation of Ghirardelli, but that's just my opinion. HAHA you said not concrete, the entrance IS STONE, seems to me very concrete LOL IMO

Durian wrote:: I don't think of the additional hints at Ghirardelli as wasted. I view them as confirmation you are in the right spot. The map is interesting, but aside from nods to some of the murals in the museum and on it's northward facing outer wall, I 've found nothing concrete for the Maritime Museum. Certainly not it's front. Why do you feel the museum fits the 'air smells sweet' part of the verse? "The air smells sweet" is a nod to move towards Ghirardelli from the entrance of the Museum (east) to me the chocolate colored rocks and the Gh give you a confirmation of Ghirardelli, but that's just my opinion. HAHA you said not concrete, the entrance IS STONE, seems to me very concrete LOL IMO

Goonie68 wrote:: I think this is a hint to Galileo and Polk street... Maybe this is why the pearl is not in the middle but shifted to the left. My crappy graphics software doesn't allow me to type in a curve. So if someone want to try making an arch with Galileo High with "o" being the pearl would be cool.

Goonie68 wrote:: I think this is a hint to Galileo and Polk street... Maybe this is why the pearl is not in the middle but shifted to the left. My crappy graphics software doesn't allow me to type in a curve. So if someone want to try making an arch with Galileo High with "o" being the pearl would be cool.

BTW the same kind of optical illusion is present in image 4 where the jewel is offset to the left of the image.

BTW the same kind of optical illusion is present in image 4 where the jewel is offset to the left of the image.

If you look at the image again the "h" is for Hig"h", the last "h". This might help.

From this location you are practically overlooking Ghirardelli. To the right you have 6 and 8 rows of blocks. If you consider "stone wall" to be a reference to the dragon's body then it's "door" would be it's mouth. Dragon's head in the image looks like a lion's head. So at the mouth of the lion, sweet smell of success! Nice little green patch there. I 'm making a huge assumption that the mural was there then. https://tinyurl.com/y2jye8bz viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=3781

From this location you are practically overlooking Ghirardelli. To the right you have 6 and 8 rows of blocks. If you consider "stone wall" to be a reference to the dragon's body then it's "door" would be it's mouth. Dragon's head in the image looks like a lion's head. So at the mouth of the lion, sweet smell of success! Nice little green patch there. I'm making a huge assumption that the mural was there then. https://tinyurl.com/y2jye8bz viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=3781

definitely there in 2011 but I don't see it in 2007 but that picture is really too blurry to be sure so I can't say it wasn't there. under " the Mighty Lions" might be some more text like a date or a signature. too far away to see.

I think that's just the rectangular frame line. I don't see any text. Where do you see 2007 image? There's 2008: https://tinyurl.com/y2fozyb2

I think that's just the rectangular frame line. I don't see any text. Where do you see 2007 image? There's 2008: https://tinyurl.com/y2fozyb2

Here's some funny shit. Is that mural image from 1995? http://www.cnn.com/US/OJ/suspect/high.s ... chool.html

If this is a telephone map icon legend then Chinese phone exchange and Portsmouth Square area may be area of interest.

Stone marker waiting for Durian's magic! https://utahvalley360.com/wp-content/up ... Square.jpg

Choice wrote:: If this is a telephone map icon legend then Chinese phone exchange and Portsmouth Square area may be area of interest. ***+quote Choice- do you have a photo of an icon that you are referring to? I believe I understand what you mean but haven't seen one that matches.

Ok, I thought I was missing something. Thanks.

The circles on the other side could be the rotary dial holes. Who knows!

You guy are getting uncomfortably close to where I would like to dig in sf lol

Wasn't that area turned upside down with renovations over the years?

All but one spot. The area near the pole. It's never been touched. I've got all the work orders, plans, and diagrams going back to the renovations in the 70s.

Post a good image of the area. Mine suck!

https://i.imgur.com/jpnKRTa.png

Have you tried to match the shape of that stone marker with the shape of the woman? From this spot the flagpole is right behind you. https://tinyurl.com/y6rqc98h

Sun Hung Heung Restaurant sign across from the phone exchange: https://tinyurl.com/y463hhqw Weak!

This is all wonderful. Where did Gulliver bury the casque? What clues does Gulliver’s book give to help find the casque? Constantly pounding home a connection that doesn’t advance the puzzle does what for everyone? You win. It’s all about Gulliver’s travels. What is the logical next step? What location or area are we supposed to look next and why? If there are no good answers to these very basic questions, how strong is this connection really?

It's all about the 10 yard step dude, get with it!

Choice wrote:: It's all about the 10 yard step dude, get with it! Oh I get it. A 10 yard step from where to where? Does Gulliver help with that question, dude?

I'm the Jack the Beanstalk guy myself!

In July hopefully the first or second weekend I’m going to be doing some probing along with a boroscope. I was just at the area which is close to the cliff house up at Sutro Heights. Yeah I know it is out of bounds but if the NPS does catch me at least I will have a good story to tell. Just like others on this forum who are all certain in their solutions I’m certain on mine whichI posted a number if pages back on this thread. I do know that this area would have been open territory for BP back in 1981 and there would not have been any reason to stop him from burying it there. My solution takes me two a 2 foot area. But there has been a small amount of some slippage in since 1981. So I might had to do a couple more probes. That could mean that the casque may be buried closer to the surface. If so then we may be digging even though the first trip was meant to probe and if we got what we were looking for we would come back a second time and dig. I hope those Park Rangers have uniforms because I will have people on the perimeter as look outs. This is something that I and another member of this forum have to do since BP could have very well buried it there. I remember when I was going to college in the Bay Area and was pledging a fraternity. During Hell Week on the very last day they sent us into the city on a scavenger hunt. The president of the frat wanted to doorman’s hat from the Fairmont Hotel and asked me to get it personally. At the college I went to I was on the track team. Back in those day’s we ran yards not meters. I ran the 440 and the 880 and was pretty good at it so I thought I would sneak up on the doorman and grab the hat and run leaving the old guy behind. As it turned out the doorman was neither old nor slow. I had my car parked about a mile away. For the first couple hundred yards the guy was right on my tail. So I put the after burners on and the guy started to drop back a little. I had my Butch Cassidy moment thinking “who is this guy”. I thought I finally lost him and my fellow pledge buddy had my car running and I jumped in and we took off. Unfortunately for me the guy got my license plate number. I later found out that the guy ran the mile for another college in the Bay Area. Later that night my parents got a call saying my car was just used in a theft in San Francisco. To cut to the chase was that I had to return the hat the following Monday morning or they would press charges. The frat president was none to pleased. So I’m looking forward to the challenge.

Good thing you pre-announced your intentions so the rangers WILL be looking for you! Well at least you get free soup for you!

Choice wrote:: Good thing you pre-announced your intentions so the rangers WILL be looking for you! Well at least you get free soup for you! I going to call the the operation Ocean’s Beach 11. I like soup.

You got 10 people tagging along? OMG we got Alexa [bot] spying on us.

Rviewer1, great story. Good luck in your probery. Keep the car running.

Yeah, just remember yall, RUN IN DIFFERENT DIRECTIONS!

Is there a strong connection between Sutro heights and Chinese immigration? BTW since China is practically on the opposite side of planet, the coordinate numbers of San Francisco and Eastern China are the same 37/122,

really think about this one... http://www.hamiltonstoneworks.com/rhodo ... arden.html

Rosebud

erexere wrote:: Rosebud you need to enable javascript.

So which stone are we digging at?! https://tinyurl.com/y3n8clpt

MERLIN wrote:: you need to enable javascript. You're right. Now I see. Cool looking structure. I thought you were going for some kind of Citizen Kane link. I've been working on a link to the 1906 earthquake. I've misplaced my book, though.

just art

Do any of the San Francisco hunters have any summer updates to post on where every one is? I and another member here on the forum did some probing in SHP last month. We now have two spots of interest. As you can imagine we were in stealth mode. I personally feel it was the Park Ranger uniforms that did the trick. Luckily no one spotted my orange running shoes. We did learn that July is not the best month to go probing as the ground was pretty hard. We intend to go back once the rainy season begins. Hope everyone is enjoying their summer.

Best month is actually June and July, but you have to wait for the fog to come in and hide you...

Spooooky... Large images pls post link. https://richmondsfblog.com/wp-content/u ... c6d0_k.jpg

Rviewer1 wrote:: Do any of the San Francisco hunters have any summer updates to post on where every one is? I might've missed your post but did you ever post the Chinese emigration connection to your solve?

Choice wrote:: I might've missed your post but did you ever post the Chinese emigration connection to your solve? Not in my original solve. I have noticed since then that there may be a Chinese theme to a point. The Chinese Goddess of the Moon Chang-o could have something to do with the moons in Image 1. If that is the case then there are a few moons that are hovering directly above some of my locations along my path including my final location.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Best month is actually June and July, but you have to wait for the fog to come in and hide you... That’s pretty funny Mr Falcon. I would imagine that is pretty tough to play golf at Lincoln Park like that. I’m hoping for both a little rain and fog. I will have to get a couple Park Ranger rain coats and glow in the fog running shoes.

Looks like you're using a 3/4" diameter probe from Amazon. I couldn't get much ground penetration with it either. Walked on down to a 1/4" diameter cold-rolled steel rod from local hardware store - more penetration but rod bent. I went on Amazon again and got a 1/8" diameter x 48" length precipitation-hardened, 17-4 stainless steel rod. UNSPSC Code 30102405 It works like a charm without bending. You will need gloves though, no T-handle.

EvelynMDog wrote:: Looks like you're using a 3/4" diameter probe from Amazon. I couldn't get much ground penetration with it either. Walked on down to a 1/4" diameter cold-rolled steel rod from local hardware store - more penetration but rod bent. I went on Amazon again and got a 1/8" diameter x 48" length precipitation-hardened, 17-4 stainless steel rod. UNSPSC Code 30102405 It works like a charm without bending. You will need gloves though, no T-handle. Thanks for the tip. We are using a boroscope so we need it that wide. We may bring both next time though. Has anyone ever used a drill?. I know that Home Depot has cordless power drills with drill bits that go to 21 inches and on their website they go up to 36 inches.

Rviewer1 wrote:: Thanks for the tip. We are using a boroscope so we need it that wide. We may bring both next time though. Has anyone ever used a drill?. I know that Home Depot has cordless power drills with drill bits that go to 21 inches and on their website they go up to 36 inches. I have a probe, but I have found that using threaded rod in a cordless drill works great. 5/16" threaded rod from Home Depot comes in 3 or 6 foot lengths, and it's cheap. Take one end and files three flats to match the chuck of the drill. You can basically drill it into the ground and back out in 10 - 20 seconds. The chucked end will eventually break from the heat and torque, so bring the file with you. And spare batteries for the drill. You can probe a huge area in no time. https://www.homedepot.com/p/5-16-in-18- ... /204274012

Thanks GMan, Do you have a particular cordless drill brand name I can get? Is there one that has a 3/4 of an inch drill bit. Either way I think this sounds like a good way go.

Rviewer1 wrote:: Thanks GMan, Do you have a particular cordless drill brand name I can get? Is there one that has a 3/4 of an inch drill bit. Either way I think this sounds like a good way go. I have a Milwaukee cordless drill and I love it. The batteries last forever. You really can get whatever 1/2" cordless drill you want and the chuck should open up enough to accept the threaded rod. If you can get the hammer option on the drill, it's not a bad idea because sometimes you'll have to work through some tough soil or obstructions. Also, get at least one spare battery. All of this stuff, including the file can easily fit in a backpack. You have to carry the threaded rod though. My advice is to get the 6 foot length and cut it down to 4 - 4.5 feet with a hacksaw. If you need the hole to be 3/4" for the boroscope, drill first then chase the hole with the probe. Or you can get a smaller scope. I've seen small diameter ones that connect to your phone. I think they are pretty cheap on Amazon.

gManTexas wrote:: I have a Milwaukee cordless drill and I love it. The batteries last forever. You really can get whatever 1/2" cordless drill you want and the chuck should open up enough to accept the threaded rod. If you can get the hammer option on the drill, it's not a bad idea because sometimes you'll have to work through some tough soil or obstructions. Also, get at least one spare battery. All of this stuff, including the file can easily fit in a backpack. You have to carry the threaded rod though. My advice is to get the 6 foot length and cut it down to 4 - 4.5 feet with a hacksaw. If you need the hole to be 3/4" for the boroscope, drill first then chase the hole with the probe. In addition you can paint the threaded rod white and the tip red, (Blind walking stick) and no one will bother you ( Gman's idea) or you can just carry around a 4' bright RED probe around the city and no one will notice you!!!

Goonie68 wrote:: In addition you can paint the threaded rod white and the tip red, (Blind walking stick) and no one will bother you ( Gman's idea) or you can just carry around a 4' bright RED probe around the city and no one will notice you!!! Don't forget the Ray Charles glasses.

That's a good way of drilling right through the cask. It could be moved up closer to the surface. Major earthquake in 89 could've done it. 1/8" and 1/4" probes also could poke right through the box and don't feel it. Cracks may have weakened the box.

Only if you are an idiot. It's called using finesse.

Yup, new season of Squidbillies has started! Oooops, I wasn't supposed to feed the troll!

Unknown: Only if you are an idiot. It's called using finesse. The truth is, you have no idea what's required. The Chicago group didn't probe, and there is plenty of evidence to conclude that while Andy did use a probe to find the Cleveland casque, it was already compromised. To what degree we will never know, but running a piece of rebar through it could not have helped its condition. These are fragile things, and the utmost care should be taken in their recovery IMO.

Unknown: Only if you are an idiot. It's called using finesse. The truth is, you have no idea what's required. The Chicago group didn't probe, and there is plenty of evidence to conclude that while Andy did use a probe to find the Cleveland casque, it was already compromised. To what degree we will never know, but running a piece of rebar through it could not have helped its condition. These are fragile things, and the utmost care should be taken in their recovery IMO.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: The truth is, you have no idea what's required. The Chicago group didn't probe, and there is plenty of evidence to conclude that while Andy did use a probe to find the Cleveland casque, it was already compromised. To what degree we will never know, but running a piece of rebar through it could not have helped its condition. These are fragile things, and the utmost care should be taken in their recovery IMO. And your point is what?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: The truth is, you have no idea what's required. The Chicago group didn't probe, and there is plenty of evidence to conclude that while Andy did use a probe to find the Cleveland casque, it was already compromised. To what degree we will never know, but running a piece of rebar through it could not have helped its condition. These are fragile things, and the utmost care should be taken in their recovery IMO. And your point is what?

The obvious point is, unless you want to dig out a pile of plastic and ceramic shards you must not drill or poke and probe if you don't even know what depth the cask even is.

Unknown: And your point is what? As someone who works with power tools all the time, I'm merely suggesting that using one to find a casque isn't the best idea. Not if you really care about preserving whatever condition it may be in after almost 40 years in the ground.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: As someone who works with power tools all the time, I'm merely suggesting that using one to find a casque isn't the best idea. Not if you really care about preserving whatever condition it may be in after almost 40 years in the ground. I disagree. With a good cordless drill you can adjust the speed and torque. Also, you can run the threaded rod into the ground as slow as you'd like. I say it's a much better method than jumping up and down on a probe. Having said that, there is some risk of damage whether you probe or dig.

Unknown: I say it's a much better method than jumping up and down on a probe. As methods go, this is about as dumb as it gets. Of course, most of my professional experience probing is for things that can, if not handled carefully, kill you. Or at the very least, seriously ruin your day. A probe has one function and that is to tell you that something is there, and approximately how deep down it is. If you want any more information than that, you usually have to dig...carefully. Not for nothing, but I believe that BP probably used one before he buried these things. Probing the area first to make sure he would have no trouble digging makes a lot of sense, attracts almost no attention, and guarantees that he could get in and out quickly when it came time to actually dig the hole and bury the casque.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: As methods go, this is about as dumb as it gets. Of course, most of my professional experience probing is for things that can, if not handled carefully, kill you. Or at the very least, seriously ruin your day. A probe has one function and that is to tell you that something is there, and approximately how deep down it is. If you want any more information than that, you usually have to dig...carefully. I'm not sure why you are stating the obvious here. Anyway, you can do this experiment for yourself. It will cost you about $5 and a few minutes of your time.

Unknown: I'm not sure why you are stating the obvious here. And I'm not sure why you keep asking questions that you should know the answer to. But just to be clear (and keep things civil) I think the idea of using a drill and whatever is attached to it is about as dumb an idea as there is. We already have enough problems with the various Park's Departments. And that's without some well intentioned searcher hitting an underground utility that they have no idea exists until they rupture it because they lack the necessary finesse. You can get all the information you need with a probe, and some patience. A drill will speed up the process, no doubt. But at what cost?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: And I'm not sure why you keep asking questions that you should know the answer to. But just to be clear (and keep things civil) I think the idea of using a drill and whatever is attached to it is about as dumb an idea as there is. We already have enough problems with the various Park's Departments. And that's without some well intentioned searcher hitting an underground utility that they have no idea exists until they rupture it because they lack the necessary finesse. You can get all the information you need with a probe, and some patience. A drill will speed up the process, no doubt. But at what cost? Let's agree to disagree. You dig how you see fit.

Unknown: You dig how you see fit. If it's all the same to you GMan, I'll continue to search for these things in a responsible manner, and advise any one else in on the hunt to do the same. The "how you see fit" crowd has caused nothing but problems. Peace.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: And I'm not sure why you keep asking questions that you should know the answer to. But just to be clear (and keep things civil) I think the idea of using a drill and whatever is attached to it is about as dumb an idea as there is. We already have enough problems with the various Park's Departments. And that's without some well intentioned searcher hitting an underground utility that they have no idea exists until they rupture it because they lack the necessary finesse. You can get all the information you need with a probe, and some patience. A drill will speed up the process, no doubt. But at what cost? You really have to work to put a 3/4” bit through anything including a 6” plexiglass box. Oh right, not supposed to stating the obvious. As someone who works with power tools I’m surprised that you think even a complete Neanderthal could drill through a utility without knowing well beforehand.

How can one know the difference between drilling through a rock and a clay sewer pipe or PVC pipe or water pipe 3 feet deep? Call 811 to mark the lines for you!

Choice wrote:: How can one know the difference between drilling through a rock and a clay sewer pipe or PVC pipe or water pipe 3 feet deep? Call 811 to mark the lines for you! I would stop if I hit any of the above? If you can drill through any of those like butter, please send me the bit you’re using!

How can you tell if you are hitting anything? If the dirt is so hard that you have to resort to a drill then it might be difficult to know if you are drilling through a clay pipe or hard clay dirt. PVC even softer.

Even hard dirt will crumble easily with a drill. Dirt is only hard to a probe or something you’re trying to inject via blunt force. If you hit something you will know and you’d have to be extremely reckless to break through said thing. Honestly, because the probe requires force, I see that as more dangerous. Either way, if people really think they can break through 3/8 plexi with a spike, then I’d pay to see it. Old pipes are more likely to be damaged.

Didn't mean to stir up all that shit-storm. Good to know there are people out there "walking the walk" though.

Unknown: Good to know there are people out there "walking the walk" though. Yes it is. But I don't think it's too much to ask that those that do, do it responsibly. BP was able to put these things in the ground with a minimum of fuss and disruption, and we should aspire to find and remove them in the same way. After all, "It is not the intention of the Fair People to destroy the beauty of nature or Man through their challenge.".

Choice wrote:: How can you tell if you are hitting anything? If the dirt is so hard that you have to resort to a drill then it might be difficult to know if you are drilling through a clay pipe or hard clay dirt. PVC even softer. I take a 1.5 foot paddle bit on an extension. Icut off the screw portion of the paddle bit and filed down the tips so its just a blunt paddle. That allows the bit to stop on anything hard, and you can rock the bit back and forth to see if what you have hit is smooth and flat. I can take a picture later if I didnt describe it well enough.

The threaded rod and power drill idea sounds like just what I was looking for to aerate some hardpack soil in my lawn without rototilling the grass away. The discriminating tastes of our chipmunk colony require that they burrow only where the ground is nice and soft. Personally, I'd prefer not to probe because of potential damage. Shatter part of the plexiglas, and any ground pressure around it could collapse the thing. Is the plexi brittle after 35+ years in the ground? I'm not sure. Also, I'm not sure that I'd be able to discriminate between a rock or a root, a buried something else, ora casque.

Someone should MacGyver a portable water probe/drill. All you need is a portable drill, water pump, jet nuzzle and a water backpack.