Quest4Treasure Archives

I believe this image falls under the following theme: June (6 o'clock) Pearl Rose Chinese/Asian Theme "From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl: Chaste, perfect as the silver moon."

I believe this image falls under the following theme: June (6 o'clock) Pearl Rose Chinese/Asian Theme "From far Cathay, the dragon's Pearl: Chaste, perfect as the silver moon."

If you take a look at Dan's high res pic of this image, you will see in her hair, on the right side, is definitely a clue. I thought it was the number 88 at first, but the loops on top are not closed.  It doesn't look like a symbol that I recognize --- has anyone else seen it?  Perhaps it is a modern art sculpture. On her cloak are the letters "G" and "h" backwards.  Then down one side are the roman numerals for 1, 2, 3, then an upside down 5 (or a letter A), and then 10 (or an X), and then symbols I don't recognize.  On the other side of the cloak are the roman numerals for 1, 2, 2, then the yinyang symbol, an upside down 6, an upside down 5 (or a letter A), and more symbols I don't recognize. The dragon's tail ends in a number 6. I don't see anything in the cliffs.  This is a very tough pic.

If you take a look at Dan's high res pic of this image, you will see in her hair, on the right side, is definitely a clue.  I thought it was the number 88 at first, but the loops on top are not closed.  It doesn't look like a symbol that I recognize --- has anyone else seen it?  Perhaps it is a modern art sculpture. On her cloak are the letters "G" and "h" backwards.  Then down one side are the roman numerals for 1, 2, 3, then an upside down 5 (or a letter A), and then 10 (or an X), and then symbols I don't recognize.  On the other side of the cloak are the roman numerals for 1, 2, 2, then the yinyang symbol, an upside down 6, an upside down 5 (or a letter A), and more symbols I don't recognize. The dragon's tail ends in a number 6.  I don't see anything in the cliffs.  This is a very tough pic.

I think the blue in the hills on the left hand side represents an object. Turned sideways it kinda looks like a genie's lamp. Well, maybe not but its a peculiar shape and a peculiar place to use blue in the picture so i think it represents something. Also, on the left hand side of the hills it looks like there is a native american wearing a robe and headress seated and looking toward the right. His head would just below and left of the barred window at the top of the hill.

I think the blue in the hills on the left hand side represents an object. Turned sideways it kinda looks like a genie's lamp. Well, maybe not but its a peculiar shape and a peculiar place to use blue in the picture so i think it represents something. Also, on the left hand side of the hills it looks like there is a native american wearing a robe and headress seated and looking toward the right. His head would just below and left of the barred window at the top of the hill.

OK, Without a shadow of a doubt this  image is San Francisco- The 38 122 lon/lat numbers were a nice confirmer - but I did some image manipulation with this one and have confirmed it to be SF. Then it was trial and error to find the right corresponding verse. and using the internet - solved or confirmed almost all of the verse, it leads you along a certain path starting from a location specified in the picture. getting more and more specific as you get to the end of the verse. I figure at this point I can point to within a mile or so of it. Its funny first your not sure then suddenly you make a connection with a stanza and you just go doh! I hope to go to SF next week or so If I can't get it to pan out I will post my translation and see what others can do with it.

OK, Without a shadow of a doubt this  image is San Francisco- The 38 122 lon/lat numbers were a nice confirmer - but I did some image manipulation with this one and have confirmed it to be SF. Then it was trial and error to find the right corresponding verse. and using the internet - solved or confirmed almost all of the verse, it leads you along a certain path starting from a location specified in the picture. getting more and more specific as you get to the end of the verse. I figure at this point I can point to within a mile or so of it. Its funny first your not sure then suddenly you make a connection with a stanza and you just go doh! I hope to go to SF next week or so If I can't get it to pan out I will post my translation and see what others can do with it.

For those of you reading this thread and not knowing where the "38" latitude is coming from, as Fox points out in another thread, it's the number of boxes on her sleeve. Good luck maltedfalcon!  Let us know what you find.

For those of you reading this thread and not knowing where the "38" latitude is coming from, as Fox points out in another thread, it's the number of boxes on her sleeve. Good luck maltedfalcon!  Let us know what you find.

maltedfalcon-- Is there any way you can indicate which verse you are using. I am far from San Fran and seeking another treasure and I would be greatly assisted by a process of elimination. But, if you do not want to reveal that info yet, then I understand.  Either way, I hope your hunt turns out well. --Johann

maltedfalcon-- Is there any way you can indicate which verse you are using.  I am far from San Fran and seeking another treasure and I would be greatly assisted by a process of elimination. But, if you do not want to reveal that info yet, then I understand.  Either way, I hope your hunt turns out well. --Johann

I 'm not sure if this is correct or not, but an old thread on the American Treasure Hunt Society forum mentioned that this pictured referred to New York as the lady's face is that of the Statue of Liberty. Chris.

I'm not sure if this is correct or not, but an old thread on the American Treasure Hunt Society forum mentioned that this pictured referred to New York as the lady's face is that of the Statue of Liberty. Chris.

I didn't mean to infer I found something totally hidden from the eye, you can still see it, but it was by using image manipulation that I finally clued in that it was there. I will share it, but first I am going to go to SF this week to check out my clues. and see if I can get a little closer. matt Sparks

I didn't mean to infer I found something totally hidden from the eye, you can still see it, but it was by using image manipulation that I finally clued in that it was there. I will share it, but first I am going to go to SF this week to check out my clues. and see if I can get a little closer. matt Sparks

Unknown: I'm not sure if this is correct or not, but an old thread on the American Treasure Hunt Society forum mentioned that this pictured referred to New York as the lady's face is that of the Statue of Liberty. Chris. Actually the statue of Liberty picture is Pix 12

Unknown: I 'm not sure if this is correct or not, but an old thread on the American Treasure Hunt Society forum mentioned that this pictured referred to New York as the lady's face is that of the Statue of Liberty. Chris. Actually the statue of Liberty picture is Pix 12

Unknown: I will share it, but first I am going to go to SF this week to check out my clues. and see if I can get a little closer. This coming weekend?  May 15th?  Would you consider allowing two of your fellow hunters to tag along?  We (Dan Amrich and myself) would not try to steal your glory or your riches.  We live in the area and would be tickled to share only in the thrill of the chase.  I'll volunteer to hold tools or take pictures.  And you never know whether an extra set of eyes and brains could help you.

Unknown: I will share it, but first I am going to go to SF this week to check out my clues. and see if I can get a little closer. This coming weekend?  May 15th?  Would you consider allowing two of your fellow hunters to tag along?  We (Dan Amrich and myself) would not try to steal your glory or your riches.  We live in the area and would be tickled to share only in the thrill of the chase. I 'll volunteer to hold tools or take pictures.  And you never know whether an extra set of eyes and brains could help you.

Tell you what, Actually I've been wishy washing back and forth about inviting you guys. But I want to try it on my own first. If I can't get it wednesday - How about we pick another day and meet in SF I will go over my clues with you and we will see what we come up with. Maltedfalcon Matt Sparks ps Im up past sacramento

Tell you what, Actually I 've been wishy washing back and forth about inviting you guys. But I want to try it on my own first. If I can't get it wednesday - How about we pick another day and meet in SF I will go over my clues with you and we will see what we come up with. Maltedfalcon Matt Sparks ps Im up past sacramento

wishy washy or not Matt, why not invite them along?  Egg found a casque and if you have the right locale but are missing one clue, maybe Cat or Dan may hold the piece of the puzzle missing. If I ever am quite convinced of a location and there are other hunters in the area....."The more, the merrier!" Things have sure picked up a lot lately and as casques are found, others will be easier..........yahooo  😀  THE SECRET is finally revealing its secret...

wishy washy or not Matt, why not invite them along?  Egg found a casque and if you have the right locale but are missing one clue, maybe Cat or Dan may hold the piece of the puzzle missing. If I ever am quite convinced of a location and there are other hunters in the area....."The more, the merrier!" Things have sure picked up a lot lately and as casques are found, others will be easier..........yahooo  😀  THE SECRET is finally revealing its secret...

Unknown: Tell you what,... I want to try it on my own first. If I can't get it wednesday - How about we pick another day and meet in SF I will go over my clues with you and we will see what we come up with. Of course, it's your choice, since we still are not sure which verse you're using for your clues. I myself have already experienced a real-world mini-treasure hunt, digging up a shard in The Journey hunt for The Stone. http://www.thestone.com/ "buried clue" On my little adventure, i made the mistake of rushing out the door without all my print-outs. I assumed I could go from memory, but when I got there all the trees looked alike. I *thought* i had the right bend in the path -- and indeed later i found out that i was right -- but could not determine where the X was to dig.  Two hours later, another player came along and HE had printouts!  We had never met before, not even online, but we became a team -- I did have a shovel which he did not think to bring. I do think there was an extra benefit to having someone with me to share the thrill.  If you don't want help solving this one -- and i *totally* understand how that feels -- at least bring along a family member or friend.  And beverages, bring beverages. And a camera.  And print-outs of *everything* and/or the book itself. And a way to clean-up afterwards. Have fun, make an adventure of it rather than a narrow task, and GOOD LUCK!

Unknown: Tell you what,... I want to try it on my own first. If I can't get it wednesday - How about we pick another day and meet in SF I will go over my clues with you and we will see what we come up with. Of course, it's your choice, since we still are not sure which verse you're using for your clues. I myself have already experienced a real-world mini-treasure hunt, digging up a shard in The Journey hunt for The Stone. http://www.thestone.com/ "buried clue" On my little adventure, i made the mistake of rushing out the door without all my print-outs.  I assumed I could go from memory, but when I got there all the trees looked alike.  I *thought* i had the right bend in the path -- and indeed later i found out that i was right -- but could not determine where the X was to dig.  Two hours later, another player came along and HE had printouts!  We had never met before, not even online, but we became a team -- I did have a shovel which he did not think to bring. I do think there was an extra benefit to having someone with me to share the thrill.  If you don't want help solving this one -- and i *totally* understand how that feels -- at least bring along a family member or friend.  And beverages, bring beverages. And a camera.  And print-outs of *everything* and/or the book itself. And a way to clean-up afterwards. Have fun, make an adventure of it rather than a narrow task, and GOOD LUCK!

Unknown: Tell you what, Actually I 've been wishy washing back and forth about inviting you guys. But I want to try it on my own first. If I can't get it wednesday - How about we pick another day and meet in SF I will go over my clues with you and we will see what we come up with. Maltedfalcon Matt Sparks ps Im up past sacramento So, what happened?

Unknown: Tell you what, Actually I've been wishy washing back and forth about inviting you guys. But I want to try it on my own first. If I can't get it wednesday - How about we pick another day and meet in SF I will go over my clues with you and we will see what we come up with. Maltedfalcon Matt Sparks ps Im up past sacramento So, what happened?

Hey Egbert, have you heard back from Priess yet??  Did he congratulate you??  Did he tell you when you'll get the jewel?

I spoke with him briefly -- he was running out to a meeting.  He congratulated me, and said that he now has to go to the bank to figure out which jewel is mine.  I haven't heard from him since, and it's been a couple of days.

I spoke with him briefly -- he was running out to a meeting.  He congratulated me, and said that he now has to go to the bank to figure out which jewel is mine. I haven't heard from him since, and it's been a couple of days.

Do you get to keep the key? wilhouse

I just got back from a business trip...if I can be of assistance, please let me know. I live in Castro Valley, work in Oakland, and can show up in San Francisco on a moment's notice...

I just got back from a business trip...if I can be of assistance, please let me know. I live in Castro Valley, work in Oakland, and can show up in San Francisco on a moment's notice...

Unknown: i believe i have located the clock in this picture. it might be the middle one of the three chronographs / clocks on board the "Eureka" which is a museum ship in San Francisco. i have found pictures of that clock by googling, but sadly all are small or fuzzy so i didnt save the link. Was this the image you were comparing? http://sfphototour.tripod.com/images/hyde_guages.jpg I don't see it as a great match.  But the Hyde Street Pier (where that ship is docked) has lamp posts which have a curve which might match the spiral of the flower stem in image 1. (I've misplaced the url to a picture of those.)

Unknown: i believe i have located the clock in this picture. it might be the middle one of the three chronographs / clocks on board the "Eureka" which is a museum ship in San Francisco. i have found pictures of that clock by googling, but sadly all are small or fuzzy so i didnt save the link. Was this the image you were comparing? http://sfphototour.tripod.com/images/hyde_guages.jpg I don't see it as a great match.  But the Hyde Street Pier (where that ship is docked) has lamp posts which have a curve which might match the spiral of the flower stem in image 1. ( I 've misplaced the url to a picture of those.)

There is an upside-down 87 in her hair, the opposite side from the 38 and lower. Also, could the curved rose stem be a musical notation?  Is it called a clef note or something like that?  The music readers can clarify this. --Johann

Rather, I was thinking about a hedgehog in sneakers. --Johann

Rather, I was thinking about a hedgehog in sneakers. --Johann

Unknown: For those of you reading this thread and not knowing where the "38" latitude is coming from, as Fox points out in another thread, it's the number of boxes on her sleeve. That's a stretch, considering how many other numbers -- Roman and otherwise -- are in this picture.  However, those suspicious hair curls on the right look like a tilted "38", so I'm cool.

Unknown: For those of you reading this thread and not knowing where the "38" latitude is coming from, as Fox points out in another thread, it's the number of boxes on her sleeve. That's a stretch, considering how many other numbers -- Roman and otherwise -- are in this picture.  However, those suspicious hair curls on the right look like a tilted "38", so I 'm cool.

Unknown: That's a stretch, considering how many other numbers -- Roman and otherwise -- are in this picture.  However, those suspicious hair curls on the right look like a tilted "38", so I'm cool. Well, I have felt the boxes meant something specific, since there are two rows of 9 on one sleeve and two rows of 10 on the other...the discrepancy, I figured, was intentional.

Unknown: That's a stretch, considering how many other numbers -- Roman and otherwise -- are in this picture.  However, those suspicious hair curls on the right look like a tilted "38", so I 'm cool. Well, I have felt the boxes meant something specific, since there are two rows of 9 on one sleeve and two rows of 10 on the other...the discrepancy, I figured, was intentional.

Well on Saturday I went to SF and checked out my ideas, but no luck, So as promised I will know let you all know about what I 've found. Firstly take the rectangular panel with the dragon all the way up to the neckline then reverse it. (mirror the image) If you can dig up a map of golden Gate Park in San Francisco you can overlay the rectangle on the map and it fits exactly. even some of the loops of the dragon match features in the park but the clincher is - the now forward G and H at the top of the image matches up with the street at that end of the park which is called the Great Highway.

Well on Saturday I went to SF and checked out my ideas, but no luck, So as promised I will know let you all know about what I've found. Firstly take the rectangular panel with the dragon all the way up to the neckline then reverse it. (mirror the image) If you can dig up a map of golden Gate Park in San Francisco you can overlay the rectangle on the map and it fits exactly. even some of the loops of the dragon match features in the park but the clincher is - the now forward G and H at the top of the image matches up with the street at that end of the park which is called the Great Highway.

next to the lady on the left facing upward is a silouette of Abraham Lincoln. If you mirrored the picture that lincoln is on the same side of golden gate park as Lincoln heights.

next to the lady on the left facing upward is a silouette of Abraham Lincoln. If you mirrored the picture that lincoln is on the same side of golden gate park as Lincoln heights.

the little lake shaped object next to the lady on the left, sort of matches a lake in Golden Gate park Now the question is which verse goes with this picture ..... and the answer is .... (or at least Im pretty sure) one that nobody has suggested for san Francisco Verse   7 go to that section and I will explain my thoughts

the little lake shaped object next to the lady on the left, sort of matches a lake in Golden Gate park Now the question is which verse goes with this picture ..... and the answer is .... (or at least Im pretty sure) one that nobody has suggested for san Francisco Verse   7 go to that section and I will explain my thoughts

Some kind of GATE thing ? Weird shape on left hand side - middle: A Backward "G" and "H" - and symbols (map symbols?): A "Yin / Yang" symbol under crossed hands (right hand side): A "38" on the right hand side of her hair:

Some kind of GATE thing ? Weird shape on left hand side - middle: A Backward "G" and "H" - and symbols (map symbols?): A "Yin / Yang" symbol under crossed hands (right hand side): A "38" on the right hand side of her hair:

nice finds Mr. Falcon.  They seem very solid to me.  With the asian theme and the small yin-yang symbol, maybe we should be checking around the tea garden. My question, since you had all of these solid confirmers but not sure on the V, why oh why did you not invite others to help?  The only answer I can come up with I hope is not correct. Looks like another P to focus on gang!

nice finds Mr. Falcon.  They seem very solid to me.  With the asian theme and the small yin-yang symbol, maybe we should be checking around the tea garden. My question, since you had all of these solid confirmers but not sure on the V, why oh why did you not invite others to help?  The only answer I can come up with I hope is not correct. Looks like another P to focus on gang!

clarify your question for me. I am absolutely sure on the verse Ive known it for a while its verse 7 I said a few weeks ago I would post my ideas after I went and checked them out myself. what answer do you suspect?

clarify your question for me. I am absolutely sure on the verse Ive known it for a while its verse 7 I said a few weeks ago I would post my ideas after I went and checked them out myself. what answer do you suspect?

Take it easy Mr. Falcon.  Ok, you want the answer?  GREED.  Why not invite others so close by to share in the adventure.  Maybe if they had been there, you GUYS could be sharing your discovery with the rest of us right now. Enough said.  Let's ALL get back to finding another casque, shall we?

Take it easy Mr. Falcon.  Ok, you want the answer?  GREED.  Why not invite others so close by to share in the adventure.  Maybe if they had been there, you GUYS could be sharing your discovery with the rest of us right now. Enough said.  Let's ALL get back to finding another casque, shall we?

not a problem I think If It was greed I wouldn't have posted at all. I just would have kept my mouth shut and shadowed the board. Its very close. I seriously think somebody should check out the hospital in Lincoln heigts it was the only large flagpole I could find in the area and from there GG park, sutro Tower, the U of SF is all viewable its possible the giant step is a planter box i.e. cleveland

I don't think it is rbFox's place to criticize maltedfalcon's decision to work on his own for a bit.  The other two of us living in the SF area backed off willingly.  If we were concerned about losing out on the treasure, we would have raised a stink ourselves, or traveled there to beat him to it. I looked at the verse on my own and came up with a different location.  I have not yet made the journey into the city, because I don't think it ends in a specific enough location. Here's some rambling thoughts: I'll start with the assumption that the "sweet smell" is Ghirardelli chocolate factory -- but it is good to keep in mind that the foundation here is weak, and another verse might still work. "At stone wall's door" -- possibly The Cannery, it's mostly new brick now, but maybe an original stone doorway or window frame exists, even better if it matches that one on the mountain in the image; this is located next to Ghirardelli Square. "The air smells sweet" -- this is possibly confirmed by the backwards "Gh-" in the picture, as it is not G.H. as an abbreviation would be. "Not far away, High posts are three" -- from Ghirardelli square, you can probably see the 3 masts of the Balclutha museum ship in the nearby Maritime Museum; this would also be an indication to walk in the direction of the Aquatic Park there too. "Education and Justice, For all to see" -- (haven't found a use for this yet); "Sounds from the sky" -- I was thinking about the Golden Gate bridge, mere blocks away from the Aquatic Park; I haven't spent much time at Fort Mason, but it is practically in the shadow of the bridge, which would be noisy with cars above (hard to confirm from the internet); "Near ace is high" -- (really no idea what this is, could be a large letter A on a sign or building, which I do see in online photos of Fort Mason); "Running north" -- which the GG bridge does, "but first across" "In jewel's direction" -- not sure if this is speaking of our buried gemstone or a location-specific item; "Is an object, Of Twain's attention" -- according to one website there is a paddle boat wheel at the entrance to the Maritime Museum; sure Mark Twain liked river boats, but is this a case of me shoehorning the clues to fit a theory? "Giant pole" -- another boat mast? At this point we would need to be on solid ground near the final dig location, maybe a flagpole at the fort; "Giant step" -- (again, nothing specific to go on); "To the place The casque is kept." -- the end. So, I think we need to look at the Hyde Street Pier, possibly walking along the Aquatic Park, maybe as far as Fort Mason.  There are several styles of lamp posts along that route, one of which matches the spiral at the base of the flower stand in our image, and the table is sits on has a base which could also be in the shape of another lamp post. Memorial Day weekend is coming up, which would give me more free time for explorations.

Unknown: not a problem I think If It was greed I wouldn't have posted at all. I just would have kept my mouth shut and shadowed the board. sorry about the accusation falcon.  it just seemed strange to me at the time....but now I understand.  maybe I should be apoligizing to cat as well with her response.  I'm not trying to ruffle any feathers here folks and hope we can shore up another casque together. thanks for posting the ideas falcon & cat.  I still think falcon may be on the right track but who knows, cat has proven me wrong on numerous occasions in the past  😉

getting back to P1.  I had always assumed the rocky mounains in the background w/ the barred windows referred to Alcatraz - "the rock"...but, in using falcon's theory of the P turned on it's side which closely resembles GGpark, I noticed another possibility.  Keeping the P on it's side, the rocky mountains would be to the west of the park.  Appx 30 west of SF (in pretty much a direct straight line) are the Farallon Islands.  http://gorp.away.com/gorp/resource/us_nwr/ca_faral.htmnotice the description of the Habitat : "211 acres of rocky islands."  One shot of the islands is seen here: http://www.getty.edu/art/collections/im ... 211201.jpg there is or was an old lighthouse situated on the island but I have yet to find anything that even closely resembles a barred window/door. another possibility is more in the line of Cat's theory near Hyde St pier.  Directly north of HSp is "the rock" and just past that is Angel Island.  There once was a prison on AI:  "the island’s west side has an extensive collection of restored barracks from the Civil War, and on the east side are the haunting remains of the prison-like buildings that were once used to hold Chinese immigrants,..." but I have yet to find pics of them.  It ties in nicely with the Chinese theme of the P.

We know that the old water tower in Chicago was in P5 and that the upsidedown-bldg outlined in trees in P4 was found in Cleveland...so...has anyone noticed the outline of the table holding the watch and the rose?  It looks like it could be of a bldg or something else nearby the site.   A very ifffy possibility would be a lantern in the Japanese Tea garden in GGpark.  There are numerous lanterns scattered throughout the park of varying sizes and shapes.  Here is one example: http://www.inetours.com/images/Snglimgs ... erFall.jpg looks to me like it may be something else to be looked into..

it doesn't match any of the lanterns in the tea garden I drove around hoping to find a street clock or bell tower to match but I didn't have any luck. Highway 1 passes the rose garden in GG park

oh thats one other thing I wanted to point out. pix 1 has a map of GG park as viewed from above The chicago Pix has a outline of the fountain in grant park when viewed from above. Does the cleveland pix have any possible arial imagery imbeded into it?

oh thats one other thing I wanted to point out. pix 1 has a map of GG park as viewed from above The chicago Pix has a outline of the fountain in grant park when viewed from above. Does the cleveland pix have any possible arial imagery imbeded into it?

the hyde st area is a possibility no doubt Gh for Ghirrardelli is possible but when you line up the mirrored dragon and GGpark the GH sits right beside the Great Highway The lincoln outline and the GG park seems to me to point to the area south of the presidio not north. BTW the cannery is brick not stone. Still this could all be changed if the silohuette of the bldg/tower is north of the presidio.

Unknown: next to the lady on the left facing upward is a silouette of Abraham Lincoln. GGP is also bordered on the south by Lincoln Way.  It is bordered on the north by Fulton St.  There is what appears to be another possible profile on her other side but whether it is Robert Fulton or not, who knows.

Unknown: oh thats one other thing I wanted to point out. pix 1 has a map of GG park as viewed from above The chicago Pix has a outline of the fountain in grant park when viewed from above. Does the cleveland pix have any possible arial imagery imbeded into it? Sorry, no aerial imagery I could match.  In the lower left of the picture is a bunch of branches which I thought may be a map of the cultural gardens, but try as I might, it just wouldn't match. You guys are chasing this one down nicely.  Here are more pics of Golden Gate Park than anyone could possibly want! http://my.sfgov.org/photogallery/photogallery.aspx?dept=116&search=indexpage&location=Golden%20Gate%20Park&cS=1

Unknown: oh thats one other thing I wanted to point out. pix 1 has a map of GG park as viewed from above The chicago Pix has a outline of the fountain in grant park when viewed from above. Does the cleveland pix have any possible arial imagery imbeded into it? Sorry, no aerial imagery I could match.  In the lower left of the picture is a bunch of branches which I thought may be a map of the cultural gardens, but try as I might, it just wouldn't match. You guys are chasing this one down nicely.  Here are more pics of Golden Gate Park than anyone could possibly want! http://my.sfgov.org/photogallery/photogallery.aspx?dept=116&search=indexpage&location=Golden%20Gate%20Park&cS=1

could the object of Twain's desire be Fulton - ie., remember that Fulton sailed the first successful riverboat trip in NY. http://www.ulster.net/~hrmm/steamboats/fulton.html wilhouse

Nice idea wilhouse.  If that were the case, while standing in the park we would be looking north since Fulton Dr borders the park to the north.

oh yeah,  WOW  😮 egg on the pix of GGP.

The fulton connection might work, because Fulton also built the New Orleans, the first Mississippi river steamboat. I am ashamed I shouldve caught that. I just created a series of models of Rober Fulton's steamboats check out http://www.delta7studios.com/fulton.htmand I didn't notice lincoln on the south side of GG park

Im looking and looking -but I don't see any map of California in this picture -  I was thinking if the current map in the picture thread ran true there would need to be a CA map in pix 1 - maybe the GGpark map counts.

This is the wierd shape over the shoulder of the woman in pix 1 it sort of matches the lower half of north lake... and this is the image of lincoln in the hills.

Could the profile be JFK?

you could be right. JFK drive runs right through the park and parallels lincoln. maybe its both...

me and my dad have decided that its both, if you put your finger over the chin then it looks like JFK and when you take your finger off then it looks like Lincoln.....so we think its both

Well, Image 1 still has some mysteries about it, the most notable being what does the barred window mean and then there is the shape under the table. is it a bldg like in the Cleveland picture or is it something else. just kind of eyeballing the shape I see it can either be square or round, maybe its a combination of both. it could be more square then rectangular but , does anyone familiar with SF recognize this shape?  and it doesn't match SF fire boxes or Police boxes

Maltedfalcon, How has the digging gone in GGP?

isn't where I thought it was.... I think the key is the object of twains attention, without knowing exactly what that is it just stabbing in the 'park' "and its a very big park" Ive tried the obvious directions,  but your talking a huge area it you tried all of them. need to narrow it down a bit before going back - thats why I am re-looking at all the clues especially the ones I'm not sure about.

Hi folks! A friend of mine (who chats here often) brought me into the game.  Looks like alot of fun.  I've been concentrating on image 1 coupled with verse 7.  I used to live in SF and much of what was posted was what I was thinking as well. Let's get down to it:  Fulton st equals the object of Twain's attention (steamboat).  Picture one reveals Lincon's head, Lincoln Way.  These streets are on either side of GG park.  The lady's cover (dragon) is of the GG park.  The bars in the mountain is Alcatraz prison (the rock).  And the air smelling sweet is Ghiradelli Square, corresponding to the G and h on the lady's cover.  Also, there are 11 moons in the background, which to me equals Appllo 11 and the USS Hornet, which was used to retrieve the capsule, is docked accross the bay. Now I believe that the treasure is hidden in Golden Gate Park, below route 1 (near ace is high, running north) which cuts through the park, but above north lake, which is shown in the picture.  So we've cut the look in half. Ok, let's get more specific:  I believe that the place to look between these two landmarks is 32nd and 34th street or 43rd street.  I say this because the lady in the picture is pointing to either 34 or 43 and if you look at her cover, the roman numerals correspond until you get to 3 and 2. Could one of those people located in the Bay area look in the park between these streets and see if there is any kind of pole or giant step? Thanks. ABQRAM

Hi, welcome to the hunt Looked all around fulton and 34/43 North Lake - found neither a giant pole or a giant step. Matt Sparks

Well shoot, that's demoralizing! I was just talking to my friend and I know there's a totem pole in the park.  Is that located in this area?  Also, within the Japanese garden there is a buddist temple, could that be construed as a pole? ABQRAM

There was a totem pole it is no longer there- and I have dug entirerly around it from 0-5 feet ( a giant step. I had to get permission from the park service  but they were really helpful The one place I really thought it would be was  toward fulton avenue in front of the totem pole base - unfortunately at some time in the past a larger trencher was used in the area and an irrigation pipe (pvc) so not too many years ago -  The trencher wouldve run right through were I thought the casque would be. I was quite depressed to find this, but you cant imagine the excitement when the shovel blade hit something plastic.... Also very heavy equipment was used in the area in 1986 when they took down the totem pole. The japanese garden is an avenue worth exploring. haven't gone over there at all.

Sorry, I'm reading all the work you did and just catching up.  Could the Giant Step be tied in with Apollo 11?  (One small step for man, on giant leap for mankind).  And the discoverer of the North pole is by the Great Highway.  These are markers.  The key is the .  I don't think its Fulton.  I'll throw out something in a bit, after some research. ABQRAM

dug by the admunsen (north Pole) monument- very hard dirt - nothing to find. The hornet wasn't in Alameda in 1981/82 Always good to hear new ideas. just in general - though the picture gets you to an area- the verse takes you in to the casque People are making good progress with V7 and New Orleans- it seems to match there just as well- so I am trying other verses with SF to see if anything else fits. Any ideas?

Hey, I really like the giant step being related to Apollo 11, Neil Armstrong. Is there anything that would relate to Armstrong, or Apollo or 11? wilhouse

Ok, Here's a giant leap, but maybe we were focused in on the main part of GG park!  I really think the link is "an object of Twain's attention"  I did a search and Mark Twain lived in San Francisco for awhile.  He wrote about many things (events), one that made me think was  THE CLIFF HOUSE.  Well, after much difficulty looking on the web for current pictures, I found this site:  http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-ocean-beach.htm  (I think that's the address). Right in front of the main restaurant of the cliff house (there are numerous things there now)  IS A TOTEM POLE!  And, if you take a step, there is a drop of around 5 feet.  I'd say that was a giant step.  And here's the key:  That whole area is considered GG park now. Can someone there check to see if there is any validity to my search/reasoning? Thanks. ABQRAM

This is absolutely a possiblility the arched window in the cliff matches the windows in the tower of the original cliff house. the cliffs in the picture look just like the ones cliff house is on or seal rock near cliff house. Unfortunately (don't know when the last time you were at cliff house) but Cliff house is closed and fenced off and undergoing major renovations (including new landscaping) There was absolutely no way of getting in there. Mark twain did write about cliff house- (he lived in san francisco for 2 years and was quite prolific. I made a list of the objects of Twains attention. using golden gate park as the center. and it was quite easy to find something Twain wrote about in every single direction. (except due south) which makes sense because at the time there wasn't really anything south of Golden Gate Park.

This is absolutely a possiblility the arched window in the cliff matches the windows in the tower of the original cliff house. the cliffs in the picture look just like the ones cliff house is on or seal rock near cliff house. Unfortunately (don't know when the last time you were at cliff house) but Cliff house is closed and fenced off and undergoing major renovations (including new landscaping) There was absolutely no way of getting in there. Mark twain did write about cliff house- (he lived in san francisco for 2 years and was quite prolific. I made a list of the objects of Twains attention. using golden gate park as the center. and it was quite easy to find something Twain wrote about in every single direction. (except due south) which makes sense because at the time there wasn't really anything south of Golden Gate Park.

Wow, those cliffs around Cliff House in the virtual tour look just like the cliffs in the picture.  The door in the cliff could be a primitive rebus, meaning "cliff house." I think you need to focus on the verse now.

Wow, those cliffs around Cliff House in the virtual tour look just like the cliffs in the picture.  The door in the cliff could be a primitive rebus, meaning "cliff house."  I think you need to focus on the verse now.

OK, I am now convinced that verse 7 has more ties to image 1 than the NO image. It's at that cliff house Falcon. Figure out how to get it!! wilhouse

OK, I am now convinced that verse 7 has more ties to image 1 than the NO image. It's at that cliff house Falcon. Figure out how to get it!! wilhouse

Oh I hope not seriously the ground around it is all gone. they are totally redoing it , and the parking area and the facade and the building was totally gutted. Sparky

Oh I hope not seriously the ground around it is all gone. they are totally redoing it , and the parking area and the facade and the building was totally gutted. Sparky

perhaps it is near the house and not on the house grounds. what happens when you look near that totem pole in the picture? wilhouse

Thats what I meant its gone, The totem pole is gone, the sidewalk is gone, the camera obscura building is gone, the mechanical museum is gone... its a large work area with bulldozers cranes and Its totally being remodeled. you cant get there now.

Thats what I meant its gone, The totem pole is gone, the sidewalk is gone, the camera obscura building is gone, the mechanical museum is gone... its a large work area with bulldozers cranes and Its totally being remodeled. you cant get there now.

That's what happened to me in Hermann Park.  It's a frustrating puzzle when the pieces no longer exist. Have you tried talking with the foreman about out thoughts on the treasure? Perhaps someone found something, or maybe they'll let you poke around sometimes. I wish Preiss would let up and let us know when we've submitted a correct solution, but he's just not that interested. wilhouse

That's what happened to me in Hermann Park.  It's a frustrating puzzle when the pieces no longer exist. Have you tried talking with the foreman about out thoughts on the treasure? Perhaps someone found something, or maybe they'll let you poke around sometimes. I wish Preiss would let up and let us know when we've submitted a correct solution, but he's just not that interested. wilhouse

Glad you could finally join us on these boards Abqram. Let me tell you, after day after day, week after week, month after(....yeah, you get the picture) of trying to get my wife interested or involved in my crazy escapades to no avail...it sure is nice to have a buddy of mine hooked. Welcome again...and feel free to spill you guts (no matter how crazy the ideas seem) as falcon pointed out - it's good to have new ideas circulating around here.

Glad you could finally join us on these boards Abqram. Let me tell you, after day after day, week after week, month after(....yeah, you get the picture) of trying to get my wife interested or involved in my crazy escapades to no avail...it sure is nice to have a buddy of mine hooked. Welcome again...and feel free to spill you guts (no matter how crazy the ideas seem) as falcon pointed out - it's good to have new ideas circulating around here.

Well Mr. Fox, I must admit, it's pretty entertaining.  And I love doing research.  Until my cliff house theory is disproven, I may move onto another picture/verse.  I find picture 6 intriguing.  I may start looking at that one. ABQRAM

Well Mr. Fox, I must admit, it's pretty entertaining.  And I love doing research.  Until my cliff house theory is disproven, I may move onto another picture/verse. I find picture 6 intriguing. I may start looking at that one. ABQRAM

P6 huh?  Welcome to the Sunshine State  8)

Hey Falcon....are you still looking into the GGP as a possible location?  If so, thought you might find this interesting.....found it in our local paper today: "{DESIGN CHOSEN FOR AIDS MEMORIAL San Francisco -- A design by two New York architects was declared the winner Wednesday in a competition to create a centerpiece for a 7-acre garden in Golden Gate Park, the only federally recognized AIDS memorial in the country.      "Living Memorial," by Janette Kim and Chloe Town, features a stand of black carbon fiber trees, a charred wood deck and a burned, barklike walkway that in time will sprout greenery -- elements borrowed from a fire-scarred forest to evoke a sense of loss and renewal.    "While the design is at first frightening, it is also rich with the eventual triumph of life," said Ken Ruebush, who co-chaired the international contest that drew 201 submissions from 24 countries.}" to make a long story short.....If indeed you are  correct about GGP being a casque site, than wouldnt a 7-acre garden possibly cover the burial site?  Wonder if we should talk to BP before the work begins?  Just a thought......

Hey Falcon....are you still looking into the GGP as a possible location?  If so, thought you might find this interesting.....found it in our local paper today: "{DESIGN CHOSEN FOR AIDS MEMORIAL San Francisco -- A design by two New York architects was declared the winner Wednesday in a competition to create a centerpiece for a 7-acre garden in Golden Gate Park, the only federally recognized AIDS memorial in the country.      "Living Memorial," by Janette Kim and Chloe Town, features a stand of black carbon fiber trees, a charred wood deck and a burned, barklike walkway that in time will sprout greenery -- elements borrowed from a fire-scarred forest to evoke a sense of loss and renewal.    "While the design is at first frightening, it is also rich with the eventual triumph of life," said Ken Ruebush, who co-chaired the international contest that drew 201 submissions from 24 countries.}" to make a long story short.....If indeed you are  correct about GGP being a casque site, than wouldnt a 7-acre garden possibly cover the burial site?  Wonder if we should talk to BP before the work begins?  Just a thought......

well the odds that out of 1017 acres the 7 that they are going to use for the garden are about, well.... 145.28571428571428571428571428571 to 1 Anyway I have studied, read mapped and queriied and plotted, and Im pretty sure I 've got it I just have to get free of work and go dig. maybe in a week or two... But with odds like the above I better get going.

well the odds that out of 1017 acres the 7 that they are going to use for the garden are about, well.... 145.28571428571428571428571428571 to 1 Anyway I have studied, read mapped and queriied and plotted, and Im pretty sure I've got it I just have to get free of work and go dig. maybe in a week or two... But with odds like the above I better get going.

lol....love how you put all of the extra numbers after the decimal point making the number look A LOT larger.  Looking at 145 to 1 doesnt seem near as large....yet still quite good odds on our part.  But, with our luck....having located a possible/probable spot only to have it covered by an AIDS garden would be quite a shame. Good luck on your upcoming dig Falcon....keep us posted and take lots of pics

lol....love how you put all of the extra numbers after the decimal point making the number look A LOT larger.  Looking at 145 to 1 doesnt seem near as large....yet still quite good odds on our part.  But, with our luck....having located a possible/probable spot only to have it covered by an AIDS garden would be quite a shame. Good luck on your upcoming dig Falcon....keep us posted and take lots of pics

Fear not, the Aids Memorial Grove already exists, they are tallking about adding stuff to the already exisiting memorial not enlarging it, but building inside. and its at the other end of the park from where I will be digging.

Fear not, the Aids Memorial Grove already exists, they are tallking about adding stuff to the already exisiting memorial not enlarging it, but building inside. and its at the other end of the park from where I will be digging.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Fear not, the Aids Memorial Grove already exists, they are tallking about adding stuff to the already exisiting memorial not enlarging it, but building inside. maltedfalcon wrote:: and its at the other end of the park from where I will be digging. great news! and also great news!  will say a prayer to the buried casque gods for you falcon..........Good Luck!

maltedfalcon wrote:: Fear not, the Aids Memorial Grove already exists, they are tallking about adding stuff to the already exisiting memorial not enlarging it, but building inside. maltedfalcon wrote:: and its at the other end of the park from where I will be digging. great news! and also great news!  will say a prayer to the buried casque gods for you falcon..........Good Luck!

good luck!!! I hope you find it!!!

good luck!!! I hope you find it!!!

I'm very new to this hunt. I was encouraged to learn that one of jewels might be hidden in San Francisco, since I go there a few days a week for work. I grabbed the hi-res image files and started perusing Image 1. The first thing that struck me was the reversed G-h, which looks just like the first two letters of the Ghirardelli logo. It's the same typestyle and everything. It also makes sense for it to be reversed. If you stand behind Ghirardelli Square looking toward the Bay, the logo appears backwards just like that. In the image the pearl is right above the G-h. Perhaps that means the jewel is hidden just beyond the front of Ghirardelli Square, which would put it in Aquatic Park. Line two of Verse 7 says "the air is sweet" which is a great tie-in with Ghirardelli Square. You can smell chocolate being made from quite a few spots there. In fact many of the lines in Verse 7 fit well with an Aquatic park location. The more I read that verse and looked at the image and pegged each item, the more conviced I became. I thought myself pretty clever at that point. Then I finally read the full threads about Image 1 and Verse 7 and saw that catherwood and others went down this road long before I did! In any case I was still curious enough to do a drive-by of the Ghirardelli/Aquatic Park area this morning on my way to work. I got a little more info, but not enough to really confirm or deny this as the jewel's location. In any case, here's my analysis of the elements of Image 1 with Aquatic Park in mind: All in favor: 122, 123, 38 - SF is between 122 and 123 latitude, and at 37.5 longitude Reversed G-h - Looks like the Ghirardelli sign, seen from the back. The curled rose stem - Similar to the curve of the Municipal Pier at Aquatic Park. (The final curve of the dragon's tail is also similar, BTW). Here's a map: http://data2.itc.nps.gov/parks/safr/ppM ... mapm%2Ejpg Circular tabletop - This reminded me of a cable car turnaround circle, of which there is one in Aquatic Park, at the end of Hyde Street. This is the main reason I went over there to have a look. Yup, it has a wide metal ring like the tabletop. Maybe: Window in the cliffs - There are many arched windows at and around Ghirardelli Square. They are either done in brick or cement though. If you look out from Ghirardelli "in jewel's direction" you see Alcatraz -- could the barred window just be symbolic of that? The cliffs themselves - There aren't any cliffs like this near Aquatic Park. Alcatraz has a few rocky cliffs but they aren't very tall. The cliffs around Cliff House or the Marin Headlands are better matches. Points against: Lamppost under table - Aquatic Park has some pretty fancy lampposts, but they are not an exact macth The Dragon - Seems like a definite Chinatown reference, but Chinatown is at least a dozen blocks away from Ghirardelli. Could the dragon just be there to help make the China/Pearl/SF connection? Other symbols on the robe - The 1-2-2 and 1-2-3 symbols make sense as latitude numbers. The symbols aren't just there for show are they? No one has offered any ideas about them yet, and I'm stumped too. So the visual evidence isn't 100% convincing, but there are some strong elements. Is it as strong as the GG Park connection? maltedfalcon has found other bits of visual evidence --the lake outline, the Lincoln profile -- that seem to favor GG Park instead. However when you bring Verse 7 into it, I think the Aquatic Park connection gets stronger. I'll post that analysis over on the Verse 7 thread. Thanks, Rob

I 'm very new to this hunt. I was encouraged to learn that one of jewels might be hidden in San Francisco, since I go there a few days a week for work. I grabbed the hi-res image files and started perusing Image 1. The first thing that struck me was the reversed G-h, which looks just like the first two letters of the Ghirardelli logo. It's the same typestyle and everything. It also makes sense for it to be reversed. If you stand behind Ghirardelli Square looking toward the Bay, the logo appears backwards just like that. In the image the pearl is right above the G-h. Perhaps that means the jewel is hidden just beyond the front of Ghirardelli Square, which would put it in Aquatic Park. Line two of Verse 7 says "the air is sweet" which is a great tie-in with Ghirardelli Square. You can smell chocolate being made from quite a few spots there. In fact many of the lines in Verse 7 fit well with an Aquatic park location. The more I read that verse and looked at the image and pegged each item, the more conviced I became. I thought myself pretty clever at that point. Then I finally read the full threads about Image 1 and Verse 7 and saw that catherwood and others went down this road long before I did! In any case I was still curious enough to do a drive-by of the Ghirardelli/Aquatic Park area this morning on my way to work. I got a little more info, but not enough to really confirm or deny this as the jewel's location. In any case, here's my analysis of the elements of Image 1 with Aquatic Park in mind: All in favor: 122, 123, 38 - SF is between 122 and 123 latitude, and at 37.5 longitude Reversed G-h - Looks like the Ghirardelli sign, seen from the back. The curled rose stem - Similar to the curve of the Municipal Pier at Aquatic Park. (The final curve of the dragon's tail is also similar, BTW). Here's a map: http://data2.itc.nps.gov/parks/safr/ppM ... mapm%2Ejpg Circular tabletop - This reminded me of a cable car turnaround circle, of which there is one in Aquatic Park, at the end of Hyde Street. This is the main reason I went over there to have a look. Yup, it has a wide metal ring like the tabletop. Maybe: Window in the cliffs - There are many arched windows at and around Ghirardelli Square. They are either done in brick or cement though. If you look out from Ghirardelli "in jewel's direction" you see Alcatraz -- could the barred window just be symbolic of that? The cliffs themselves - There aren't any cliffs like this near Aquatic Park. Alcatraz has a few rocky cliffs but they aren't very tall. The cliffs around Cliff House or the Marin Headlands are better matches. Points against: Lamppost under table - Aquatic Park has some pretty fancy lampposts, but they are not an exact macth The Dragon - Seems like a definite Chinatown reference, but Chinatown is at least a dozen blocks away from Ghirardelli. Could the dragon just be there to help make the China/Pearl/SF connection? Other symbols on the robe - The 1-2-2 and 1-2-3 symbols make sense as latitude numbers. The symbols aren't just there for show are they? No one has offered any ideas about them yet, and I 'm stumped too. So the visual evidence isn't 100% convincing, but there are some strong elements. Is it as strong as the GG Park connection? maltedfalcon has found other bits of visual evidence --the lake outline, the Lincoln profile -- that seem to favor GG Park instead. However when you bring Verse 7 into it, I think the Aquatic Park connection gets stronger. I 'll post that analysis over on the Verse 7 thread. Thanks, Rob

Here's an additional thought about Ghirardelli: The style of the G-h symbol is so close to the Ghirardelli sign style that if it does not represent Ghirardelli then it is either: 1) a deliberate red herring, or 2) a general confirmer meant to indicate the city of San Francisco. If the G-h is meant to indicate something else, like Great Highway as maltedfalcon suggested, then the typestyle and the lowercase h would be intentional misdirection by the artist. Have there been deliberate red herrings like that in either of the two solved puzzles? I don't think so. As a general confirmer it is pretty weak, I think, since Ghirardelli isn't a major landmark on the scale of, say, the Golden Gate Bridge. Ghirardelli also provides the strongest tie-in with Verse 7 - "the air smells sweet" - which makes it a pivotal clue. This all tells me that the G-h is likely to mean that the jewel is hidden near Ghirardelli Square (as opposed to Golden Gate Park, which is pretty far away). By the way, here's a link to an overview illustration of Ghirardelli Square, showing the big sign: http://www.ghirardellisq.com/history/walking.html Any other thoughts on this?

Here's an additional thought about Ghirardelli: The style of the G-h symbol is so close to the Ghirardelli sign style that if it does not represent Ghirardelli then it is either: 1) a deliberate red herring, or 2) a general confirmer meant to indicate the city of San Francisco. If the G-h is meant to indicate something else, like Great Highway as maltedfalcon suggested, then the typestyle and the lowercase h would be intentional misdirection by the artist. Have there been deliberate red herrings like that in either of the two solved puzzles? I don't think so. As a general confirmer it is pretty weak, I think, since Ghirardelli isn't a major landmark on the scale of , say, the Golden Gate Bridge. Ghirardelli also provides the strongest tie-in with Verse 7 - "the air smells sweet" - which makes it a pivotal clue. This all tells me that the G-h is likely to mean that the jewel is hidden near Ghirardelli Square (as opposed to Golden Gate Park, which is pretty far away). By the way, here's a link to an overview illustration of Ghirardelli Square, showing the big sign: http://www.ghirardellisq.com/history/walking.html Any other thoughts on this?

arrggh...Just what we need more very convincing ideas for SF leading to a completley different location.  I really do like the idea of the Gh being from the sign as viewed from the back. Thanks for the great ideas 88 and welcome to the hunt!

arrggh...Just what we need more very convincing ideas for SF leading to a completley different location. I really do like the idea of the Gh being from the sign as viewed from the back. Thanks for the great ideas 88 and welcome to the hunt!

thanks for the vote of confidence.  My buddy and I walked around Gh Square and the Aquatic park/Marina last fall, mostly going on the assumption that the "high posts are three" was for the 3 masts of the Balcutha ship.  On the dock nearby, we thought we'd find a paddle wheel which we could tie to Mark Twain, but i remember being disappointed. I think the biggest boost would be to find where Justice and Education are for all to see (if i remember that correctly).  The Balcutha is a teaching ship, but maybe I 've overlooked some research which could be tied to a particular judge or justice ( of the peace?). And just when someone else had me convinced by the totem pole outside the Cliff House!  This could be fun, if it weren't so frustrating.  Welcome aboard!

thanks for the vote of confidence.  My buddy and I walked around Gh Square and the Aquatic park/Marina last fall, mostly going on the assumption that the "high posts are three" was for the 3 masts of the Balcutha ship.  On the dock nearby, we thought we'd find a paddle wheel which we could tie to Mark Twain, but i remember being disappointed.  I think the biggest boost would be to find where Justice and Education are for all to see (if i remember that correctly).  The Balcutha is a teaching ship, but maybe I've overlooked some research which could be tied to a particular judge or justice (of the peace?). And just when someone else had me convinced by the totem pole outside the Cliff House!  This could be fun, if it weren't so frustrating.  Welcome aboard!

Wow, you guys are awesome... just read the thread for image 1 after I studied it and had some ideas jotted.  Most of it has been discussed (Alcatraz, Ghirardelli Square). A bit has not. I didn't see anything on the other symbols on the bottom of the robe.  Lower left appears to be three circles (one on top of two) and two triangles (equilateral with 2 sides adjacent to one another).  Is the bottom image 2 semi-circles next to each other?  On the right, as Egbert mentioned, "A" or possibly upside down "V".  ?Below that a 'bell' like image (imagine a triangular Liberty Bell).  Lower right corner, could this be a Chinese character? If so, which is it and what does it mean?  Could provide a clue for us. I know Lombard street is not REALLY close to Ghirardelli (having participated in a number of "The Great San Francisco Treasure Hunt"s in my day), but the image of the dragon made me think of it (all the curves). Also, the arms folded on one another... a simple indication for framing the 122/123? Very rich imagery, maybe there are some more clues we've missed -- anything on the distinct outline of the blue area adjacent to the cliffs on the right? I liked the idea for the one on the left resembling the pond in GGP. I plan to do some internet searching over the next week to get more ideas, but wanted to throw those out there for you all. (a bit off topic, but "at stone wall's door" from verse 7... could this refer to Stonewall Jackson?... I recall Jackson street in Pacific Heights neighborhood overlooks this general area)... ok, off to read the verse 7 thread... probably already been mentioned

Wow, you guys are awesome... just read the thread for image 1 after I studied it and had some ideas jotted.  Most of it has been discussed (Alcatraz, Ghirardelli Square). A bit has not.  I didn't see anything on the other symbols on the bottom of the robe.  Lower left appears to be three circles (one on top of two) and two triangles (equilateral with 2 sides adjacent to one another).  Is the bottom image 2 semi-circles next to each other?  On the right, as Egbert mentioned, "A" or possibly upside down "V".  ?Below that a 'bell' like image (imagine a triangular Liberty Bell).  Lower right corner, could this be a Chinese character? If so, which is it and what does it mean?  Could provide a clue for us. I know Lombard street is not REALLY close to Ghirardelli (having participated in a number of "The Great San Francisco Treasure Hunt"s in my day), but the image of the dragon made me think of it (all the curves). Also, the arms folded on one another... a simple indication for framing the 122/123? Very rich imagery, maybe there are some more clues we've missed -- anything on the distinct outline of the blue area adjacent to the cliffs on the right?  I liked the idea for the one on the left resembling the pond in GGP. I plan to do some internet searching over the next week to get more ideas, but wanted to throw those out there for you all. (a bit off topic, but "at stone wall's door" from verse 7... could this refer to Stonewall Jackson?... I recall Jackson street in Pacific Heights neighborhood overlooks this general area)... ok, off to read the verse 7 thread... probably already been mentioned

The bottom symbol is two semi-circles, and the bottom right symbol looks to be a cross (crucifix-shape) inside a rectangle.

catherwood, The ship Eureka is a paddle-wheeler, but the paddle wheel is in the stern, away from the pier, so it's hard to see. I think Alcatraz works well as "Justice." Education still eludes me though (in terms of this verse I mean). skoldpadda, Yes I wondered if the dragon could mean Lombard street too. It's about 5 blocks away, though, and not directly behind Ghirardelli. I also thought the dragon could refer to Chinatown, but that's about a dozen blocks away. I stole a page from maltedfalcon's book and tried putting the image on top of a city map, with the G-h placed where the Ghirardelli sign belongs. It fits nicely, but it's not really conclusive. Here's a link: http://f2.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oHFgQjKBcF ... verlay.gif You can see the winding part of Lombard street off to the right.

catherwood, The ship Eureka is a paddle-wheeler, but the paddle wheel is in the stern, away from the pier, so it's hard to see. I think Alcatraz works well as "Justice." Education still eludes me though (in terms of this verse I mean). skoldpadda, Yes I wondered if the dragon could mean Lombard street too. It's about 5 blocks away, though, and not directly behind Ghirardelli. I also thought the dragon could refer to Chinatown, but that's about a dozen blocks away. I stole a page from maltedfalcon's book and tried putting the image on top of a city map, with the G-h placed where the Ghirardelli sign belongs. It fits nicely, but it's not really conclusive. Here's a link: http://f2.grp.yahoofs.com/v1/oHFgQjKBcF ... verlay.gif You can see the winding part of Lombard street off to the right.

I also agree that the symbols in this image need more study. I 've tried looking in a couple of symbol dictionaries, but even though they are simple symbols only some of them are listed. Here are some I 've found, but I don't think all the definitions really fit. You have to bear with me too, since even in the great hi-res scans not all of the symbols are clear. 30:34 · This ideogram is found both in earlier and present-day systems. In the earliest system of Chinese writing a similar symbol meant village (a pictorial sign for the central field and well). In alchemy [it] meant urine. As a meteorological sign [it] signifies that the ground is wet ( means flooded ground). In the French and US system of hobo signs [it] and similar structures are signs for danger. 26:8 ·  The circle with a point at its center is ancient. This ideogram seems to have been used in every cultural sphere on earth. Wherever it appears, it has the same meaning: the sun or something that is closely associated with the sun, such as hydrogen (in Dalton's nineteenth-century chemistry). It can mean sunshine in a meteorological system, gold in alchemy, plant with a one year life cycle (one sun cycle) in botany, driving wheel on locomotives as a railway ideogram, and here live bad-tempered people in both the British and the US systems of hobo signs. On nautical charts [it] is used for chimneys, towers, and high structures in general, visible from the sea. 24:21 · A graph from the US system of hobo signs meaning here lives a man with a bad temper . 30:28 · As a meteorological sign 30:28 signifies ice granules, hail, frozen raindrops. 28:11 · According to old German literature a time sign for autumn . 30:3 · The circle divided by a vertical line is an ancient sign of the alphabets used in antiquity in the Near East. The alchemists used it to signify nitrogen, or saltpeter. Among the Hittites [it was] closely associated with the idea of lightning. In his nineteenth-century system for the chemical elements John Dalton used [it] for nitrogen. Some meteorlogical sign systems used [it] for solar halo. 20:21 · One sign for pebbles (or rock-crystal) in alchemy. (we'd have to assume the symbol in the image is upside-down for this one to work)

I also agree that the symbols in this image need more study. I've tried looking in a couple of symbol dictionaries, but even though they are simple symbols only some of them are listed. Here are some I've found, but I don't think all the definitions really fit. You have to bear with me too, since even in the great hi-res scans not all of the symbols are clear. 30:34 · This ideogram is found both in earlier and present-day systems. In the earliest system of Chinese writing a similar symbol meant village (a pictorial sign for the central field and well). In alchemy [it] meant urine. As a meteorological sign [it] signifies that the ground is wet ( means flooded ground). In the French and US system of hobo signs [it] and similar structures are signs for danger. 26:8 ·  The circle with a point at its center is ancient. This ideogram seems to have been used in every cultural sphere on earth. Wherever it appears, it has the same meaning: the sun or something that is closely associated with the sun, such as hydrogen (in Dalton's nineteenth-century chemistry). It can mean sunshine in a meteorological system, gold in alchemy, plant with a one year life cycle (one sun cycle) in botany, driving wheel on locomotives as a railway ideogram, and here live bad-tempered people in both the British and the US systems of hobo signs. On nautical charts [it] is used for chimneys, towers, and high structures in general, visible from the sea. 24:21 · A graph from the US system of hobo signs meaning here lives a man with a bad temper . 30:28 · As a meteorological sign 30:28 signifies ice granules, hail, frozen raindrops. 28:11 · According to old German literature a time sign for autumn . 30:3 · The circle divided by a vertical line is an ancient sign of the alphabets used in antiquity in the Near East. The alchemists used it to signify nitrogen, or saltpeter. Among the Hittites [it was] closely associated with the idea of lightning. In his nineteenth-century system for the chemical elements John Dalton used [it] for nitrogen. Some meteorlogical sign systems used [it] for solar halo. 20:21 · One sign for pebbles (or rock-crystal) in alchemy. (we'd have to assume the symbol in the image is upside-down for this one to work)

I'm really intrigued with the Chinese meanings of these symbols seeing that the whole feel of the P is oriental the the symbols are actually on the oriental robe.....however...the symbols are definitely Mandarin or any other oriental script.  hmmm hmmm indeed.

I 'm really intrigued with the Chinese meanings of these symbols seeing that the whole feel of the P is oriental the the symbols are actually on the oriental robe.....however...the symbols are definitely Mandarin or any other oriental script.  hmmm hmmm indeed.

Doing a little more basic research on the area around Gh square......Alcatraz "the rock" is definitely in a straight shot from Gh sq as P1 shows but it looks like there aren't that many parks in the vacinity for casque burial ie...Grant Park and Greek Gardens... unless we consider the area called Fort Mason.  Is that somewhere where anyone could go and dig? While looking at the satellite of the area at maps.google.com I noticed 2 large curved buildings 1 block down N Point St...what is this?  Just curious.

Doing a little more basic research on the area around Gh square......Alcatraz "the rock" is definitely in a straight shot from Gh sq as P1 shows but it looks like there aren't that many parks in the vacinity for casque burial ie...Grant Park and Greek Gardens... unless we consider the area called Fort Mason.  Is that somewhere where anyone could go and dig? While looking at the satellite of the area at maps.google.com I noticed 2 large curved buildings 1 block down N Point St...what is this?  Just curious.

Hey Fox (and all); Sorry I haven't posted in awhile, just too busy.  My brother is going to SF next week.  Any suggestions on where to snoop around?  I'm gonna have him check my original thought--that it's at the cliff house by the totem pole--see if he can get to it yet... ABQRAM

Hey Fox (and all); Sorry I haven't posted in awhile, just too busy.  My brother is going to SF next week.  Any suggestions on where to snoop around? I 'm gonna have him check my original thought--that it's at the cliff house by the totem pole--see if he can get to it yet... ABQRAM

abq...tell him to take his backhoe and dig up the entire Golden Gate Park.  That way, we can either confirm it as a site by locating the casque or mark it off of our list of possible SF locations.... Really, I would have him look around the Gh square....see if there are any parks or nice little grassy areas nearby. I really do like the Gh on her robe = Gh sq.

abq...tell him to take his backhoe and dig up the entire Golden Gate Park.  That way, we can either confirm it as a site by locating the casque or mark it off of our list of possible SF locations.... Really, I would have him look around the Gh square....see if there are any parks or nice little grassy areas nearby.  I really do like the Gh on her robe = Gh sq.

fox wrote:: While looking at the satellite of the area at maps.google.com I noticed 2 large curved buildings 1 block down N Point St...what is this?  Just curious. I believe they are 2 expensive apartment buildings but I can't remember the name of that complex. that's funny that you would mention them, because the last time my friend and i were down there, we were talking about them. we were wondering why someone would pay so much to live so far from where they work. i guess it's all about the view.

fox wrote:: While looking at the satellite of the area at maps.google.com I noticed 2 large curved buildings 1 block down N Point St...what is this?  Just curious. I believe they are 2 expensive apartment buildings but I can't remember the name of that complex. that's funny that you would mention them, because the last time my friend and i were down there, we were talking about them. we were wondering why someone would pay so much to live so far from where they work. i guess it's all about the view.

Sorry I don't have much to offer on this one, but I do have a few unconnected thoughts maybe worth sharing. First, I think it's pretty well established that this has to be San Francisco. The following latitudes and longitudes can be found in various places in the image: 37 - hair (left) 38 - hair (right) and sleeve 122 - clothing (right) 123 - clothing (left) SF is located at 37'45" N 122'27" W. There is what appears to be an octopus head, upside-down, just below her wrists and between the dragon's wings. We never did find out what happened re maltedfalcon's March 28 dig announcement. Falcon? Aces88 is right - The "Gh" look exactly like the ones in the Image 1. I noticed that there is a clock tower in the SE corner of Ghirardelli Square (b. 1911), but the clock face bears no resemblance to the clock in the picture. (Going to the Ghirardelli website made me really want chocolate, but all I have in my house are miniature Reese's cups - a far cry, I think...) All 12 pictures have a birth flower in them. More often than not, I 'm guessing, this has no significance. However, the Cleveland picture's daffodil was used as part of the "Bellflower" rebus. The rose in Pic 1 looks suspiciously like part of a rebus to me, especially with that weird stem. What could it mean? The Golden Gate Park, Ghirardelli Square, and Cliff House solutions all match some of the clues, but not all of the clues. For example, if the casque really is buried in Ghirardelli Square (as the Gh would suggest), why would an abstract representation of Golden Gate Park be necessary? And vice versa. None of the suggested solutions accounts for the barred window. Several agreed that the blue shape on the left looks like North Lake in Golden Gate Park. I found some map images of North Lake that don't look anything like it: And finally, because a picture is worth 1000 words...

Sorry I don't have much to offer on this one, but I do have a few unconnected thoughts maybe worth sharing. First, I think it's pretty well established that this has to be San Francisco. The following latitudes and longitudes can be found in various places in the image: 37 - hair (left) 38 - hair (right) and sleeve 122 - clothing (right) 123 - clothing (left) SF is located at 37'45" N 122'27" W. There is what appears to be an octopus head, upside-down, just below her wrists and between the dragon's wings. We never did find out what happened re maltedfalcon's March 28 dig announcement. Falcon? Aces88 is right - The "Gh" look exactly like the ones in the Image 1. I noticed that there is a clock tower in the SE corner of Ghirardelli Square (b. 1911), but the clock face bears no resemblance to the clock in the picture. (Going to the Ghirardelli website made me really want chocolate, but all I have in my house are miniature Reese's cups - a far cry, I think...) All 12 pictures have a birth flower in them. More often than not, I'm guessing, this has no significance. However, the Cleveland picture's daffodil was used as part of the "Bellflower" rebus. The rose in Pic 1 looks suspiciously like part of a rebus to me, especially with that weird stem. What could it mean? The Golden Gate Park, Ghirardelli Square, and Cliff House solutions all match some of the clues, but not all of the clues. For example, if the casque really is buried in Ghirardelli Square (as the Gh would suggest), why would an abstract representation of Golden Gate Park be necessary? And vice versa. None of the suggested solutions accounts for the barred window. Several agreed that the blue shape on the left looks like North Lake in Golden Gate Park. I found some map images of North Lake that don't look anything like it: And finally, because a picture is worth 1000 words...

Wow! That golden gate clue is right on. BTW Its not the blue thing looks like north lake its the blue shape looks like the south end of north lake. or the section on your map which is under the words "North Lake" and its not that it looks like the lake from a photograph its that it looks exactly like that section of north lake, from the tourist map you can get in the park that was available in the 1980s  like it was traced. The current map is a little different as is the shape of the lake well actually there is  no lake there at all right now. its all drained dirt and being renovated.

Wow! That golden gate clue is right on. BTW Its not the blue thing looks like north lake its the blue shape looks like the south end of north lake. or the section on your map which is under the words "North Lake" and its not that it looks like the lake from a photograph its that it looks exactly like that section of north lake, from the tourist map you can get in the park that was available in the 1980s  like it was traced. The current map is a little different as is the shape of the lake well actually there is  no lake there at all right now. its all drained dirt and being renovated.

oh sorry, no news is bad news- found nothing. hit a 100 year old cast iron pipe - that got my pulse going.... but didnt find anything...

Been real busy at work, but things look to be slowing down a bit.  Anyway, take a look at the rose one more time. I told Fox that there is a woman hidden in the rose with her back arched.  Does anyone else see this?  If so, is there any link to what we've been discussing? ABQRAM

Been real busy at work, but things look to be slowing down a bit.  Anyway, take a look at the rose one more time.  I told Fox that there is a woman hidden in the rose with her back arched.  Does anyone else see this?  If so, is there any link to what we've been discussing? ABQRAM

I see the what you are talking about kind of vague to say "woman"  more of a "figure" The legs are a bit long - kind of looks like the AOL logo guy

I see the what you are talking about kind of vague to say "woman"  more of a "figure" The legs are a bit long - kind of looks like the AOL logo guy

Hi Malted, Saw your post on the sad news page.  On a less somber note, nice find on the Twain passage.  In the spririt of honoring Preiss by pressing on in the hunt, I have two follow up questions: Is the "architectural autocrat" the city or the cathedral?  If the latter, are there any local cathedral's nearby that could be the object, rather than the cathedral in Milan? It seems to me that "giant pole, giant step" might mean that you should "step" out exactly the same distance as the pole is high.  It's probably a lot more digging, but have you considered looking 26 feet out from the center (or edge) of the base in any of your favorite directions?

Hi Malted, Saw your post on the sad news page.  On a less somber note, nice find on the Twain passage.  In the spririt of honoring Preiss by pressing on in the hunt, I have two follow up questions: Is the "architectural autocrat" the city or the cathedral?  If the latter, are there any local cathedral's nearby that could be the object, rather than the cathedral in Milan? It seems to me that "giant pole, giant step" might mean that you should "step" out exactly the same distance as the pole is high.  It's probably a lot more digging, but have you considered looking 26 feet out from the center (or edge) of the base in any of your favorite directions?

that is a new twist on the pole & step debate spacecraft. I like it!  Your step should equal the pole...hmmm, interesting.

that is a new twist on the pole & step debate spacecraft.  I like it!  Your step should equal the pole...hmmm, interesting.

Interesting idea. There are cathedrals nearby, but coincidentalyy they are in the same direction as Milan. (northwest) basically the whole passage by twain is speaking specifcally about the Milan Cathedral. the next question would be how tall was the totem pole in 1982, becauase as rot set in they would periodially lift the totem pole and chainsaw off the bottom. So over time the totem pole got shorter. one thing is in another thread somebody noticed that in the chicago and cleveland finds - both were buried next to something making it easier to locate (BP obviously took photos after he buried the casques) 24 feet out from the totem pole would be down a hill and into the grass. and in an extremely visible area, and difficult to exactly place without anything right nearby to reference from.  Remember in chicago even with the photo of the burial site they almost missed it.

Interesting idea. There are cathedrals nearby, but coincidentalyy they are in the same direction as Milan. (northwest) basically the whole passage by twain is speaking specifcally about the Milan Cathedral. the next question would be how tall was the totem pole in 1982, becauase as rot set in they would periodially lift the totem pole and chainsaw off the bottom. So over time the totem pole got shorter. one thing is in another thread somebody noticed that in the chicago and cleveland finds - both were buried next to something making it easier to locate (BP obviously took photos after he buried the casques) 24 feet out from the totem pole would be down a hill and into the grass. and in an extremely visible area, and difficult to exactly place without anything right nearby to reference from.  Remember in chicago even with the photo of the burial site they almost missed it.

I agree with Falcon, preiss buried these so they could be dug up again. I don't think giant step was a "take a step" type of step.. it was more of a "look, there's a giant step" type of step (perhaps a concrete step around a flagpole type of thing. wilhouse __________________________________ Byron Preiss, you will not be forgotten

I agree with Falcon, preiss buried these so they could be dug up again. I don't think giant step was a "take a step" type of step.. it was more of a "look, there's a giant step" type of step (perhaps a concrete step around a flagpole type of thing. wilhouse __________________________________ Byron Preiss, you will not be forgotten

hey ya'll...holli here... i have gone over this image...and have what i think is the verse to go with it...yes... i did get san francisco as well... i do have an idea where i think it is close too...its the last line that is buggin me...same as everyone else...verse 7 right? anyone want to hear my ideas? let me know...thanks..holli

hey ya'll...holli here...i have gone over this image...and have what i think is the verse to go with it...yes...i did get san francisco as well...i do have an idea where i think it is close too...its the last line that is buggin me...same as everyone else...verse 7 right? anyone want to hear my ideas? let me know...thanks..holli

Holli, if you don't mind, a word of advice? On this board, we are all equals. Every idea is valid and respected.  The search for the treasure is intrinsic - if one finds it we all find it.  Many of us have our pets, certainly mine is Houston, but we all share our information. No hiding information, or PMing, or even asking if anyone wants to hear it. Jump in, both feet. You will be listened to and accepted. If it occurs you can share in the find any way the finders all agree.  The jewels, if we still get them, aren't worth that much, only around $800 at last count.  It's the finding that's the reward. wilhouse

Holli, if you don't mind, a word of advice? On this board, we are all equals. Every idea is valid and respected.  The search for the treasure is intrinsic - if one finds it we all find it.  Many of us have our pets, certainly mine is Houston, but we all share our information. No hiding information, or PMing, or even asking if anyone wants to hear it. Jump in, both feet. You will be listened to and accepted. If it occurs you can share in the find any way the finders all agree.  The jewels, if we still get them, aren't worth that much, only around $800 at last count.  It's the finding that's the reward. wilhouse

thanks wil....im still under the tweleve spell...where i gotta be careful what i say...i apologize to everyone...not my intention...alrighty? so here are my ideas - the building under the bridge...the stone wall's door... high posts are 3 - gg bridge education and justice -  university and hall of justice sounds from the sky - the airport the twain's affection - mark twain hotel on taylor street im still hashing out the giant pole, giant step part... and i hope this isnt a repetative answer to anything already posted... thanks agin wil, holli

thanks wil....im still under the tweleve spell...where i gotta be careful what i say... i apologize to everyone...not my intention...alrighty? so here are my ideas - the building under the bridge...the stone wall's door... high posts are 3 - gg bridge education and justice -  university and hall of justice sounds from the sky - the airport the twain's affection - mark twain hotel on taylor street im still hashing out the giant pole, giant step part... and i hope this isnt a repetative answer to anything already posted... thanks agin wil, holli

I 'll second what wilhouse said. Even if a solution came to me out of the blue, I wouldn't think of taking a shovel to the site without one or two forum members in tow (probably wilhouse, since he has a back-hoe at his beck and call!).

I'll second what wilhouse said. Even if a solution came to me out of the blue, I wouldn't think of taking a shovel to the site without one or two forum members in tow (probably wilhouse, since he has a back-hoe at his beck and call!).

Holli, I haven't had time to check out your answer, but make sure the Mark Twain hotel was there in 1982. Preiss buried these in 1981-1982 time frame. wilhouse (have backhoe, will travel)

Holli, I haven't had time to check out your answer, but make sure the Mark Twain hotel was there in 1982. Preiss buried these in 1981-1982 time frame. wilhouse (have backhoe, will travel)

wilhouse wrote:: Holli, I haven't had time to check out your answer, but make sure the Mark Twain hotel was there in 1982.  Preiss buried these in 1981-1982 time frame. The Executive Hotel Mark Twain at 345 Taylor Street in San Francisco was built in 1928. Drew

wilhouse wrote:: Holli, I haven't had time to check out your answer, but make sure the Mark Twain hotel was there in 1982.  Preiss buried these in 1981-1982 time frame. The Executive Hotel Mark Twain at 345 Taylor Street in San Francisco was built in 1928. Drew

well then...i would say that the hotel was indeed there a short (lol) time before BP rolled in.  thanks for the info

well then... i would say that the hotel was indeed there a short (lol) time before BP rolled in.  thanks for the info

so where does the Giant Pole and Giant Step come from?  i have been workin on yet another hunt (non- ATT) heheh...and havent been able to do anymore research on that particular area...any ideas? thanks holli ps...thanks drew...i thought it was...

Hi all... I'm mostly a lurker on this board and I'm nowhere near SF. But I had a thought that I haven't seen posted here. Does anyone know if there is a big statue of someone Polish in SF (giant Pole)? Matt

The idea has been raised before (dan39decoy, last year), but there were no takers. I really like the idea, because it doesn't involve a straightforward interpretation of "pole."

Hello, I'm a newbie here, a longtime lurker and a friend of forest blight's. I'm in San Francisco on vacation right now, and I thought I'd have a go at this one.  I am assuming verse 7 and image 1 go together, and this morning I learned that Coit Tower on Telegraph Hill is one of three towers that have stood at that location.  The telegraph and other signal tower that once stood there may be "sounds from the sky," though I'm not certain.  Also, several churches are visible from the top of the hill, though none of them are cathedral churches. This location is a good deal closer to Ghirardelli Square than the Golden Gate Park, indeed only about twelve blocks away. I hope I haven't covered any old ground here, and I'm sorry if this post is inappropriate...

Good luck on your search Voltaire.  Keep us all posted.  If I were you, dont discount GGP just yet.  If you have time, you may just want to roam around the park and see if you spot something that maltedfalcon may have missed. (although mf is one sharp cookie)

If anyone would like me to take pictures of specific sites in SF, I am here until Saturday and able to photograph with a high-res digital camera.  Just send me a message and I'll head out tomorrow.  I have already taken several dozen pictures of the area around Coit Tower, as I am convinced that the three high posts represent the three historical towers that have stood in succession atop this hill--a flag signaling tower, a telegraph tower, and the Coit memorial tower.  Each one is commemorated by notices around the top of Telegraph Hill. Detailed pictures of these sights will follow, as will pictures from around Ghirardelli Square.  Anything else, just shoot me a message.

I wouldn't be surprised if Voltaire returned home with casque in tow. A little Googling and reading about Coit Tower leaves me very optimistic - it's an attractive site. Consider, for example, paintings #16 and #17 here... http://www.coittower.org/murals/floorplan.html ...and compare their outlines to that of Image 1. I would just keep an eye out for things alluded to in various verses, especially Verse 7. For example, if there is a statue of Mark Twain looking directly at a patch of sand, I would be encouraged!

forest_blight wrote:: I wouldn't be surprised if Voltaire returned home with casque in tow. A little Googling and reading about Coit Tower leaves me very optimistic - it's an attractive site. Consider, for example, paintings #16 and #17 here... http://www.coittower.org/murals/floorplan.html ...and compare their outlines to that of Image 1. I would just keep an eye out for things alluded to in various verses, especially Verse 7. For example, if there is a statue of Mark Twain looking directly at a patch of sand, I would be encouraged! Interesting.  The description of painting 16 refers to the University of California (in other words, Education), while the description of painting 17 refers to Alcatraz Prison (in other words, Justice).  "For all to see", indeed. Drew

Very nice Drew.  I was excited just because the tops of those 2 pix were rounded like P1 and included a dark sky and rocky mountains.  Then you drop the bombshell about education and justice.  Coit tower has to be near. bring one home Voltaire.....bring one home!

Wow, drew, that's a wonderful observation. I think I just heard a "clink" as a couple of pieces fell nicely into place. I wonder if anything in (or around, or visible from) the Coit Tower has to do with airplanes. Near ace is high suggests a "flying ace," which would be high if the plane is aloft. Is there an airplane in any of the murals? That would also qualify as Sounds from the sky , too, by the way, but then, so would the Berkeley campanile in the east painting. In jewel's direction may not refer to the casque at all (since there is no jewel there, after all), but rather to the artificial Treasure Island (hardee har), home of the 1939 World's Fair and a former military base. And frankly there isn't much between Coit Tower and Treasure Island but water and a little land. So if this is helpful at all, is there an object / Of Twain's attention or a Giant pole / Giant step to the northeast of the tower?

I know this is a stretch, but somewhere in my mind I remember that a telegraph tower used to be known as a "pole", meaning that the possibly something on the Telegraph Hill could actually be the telegraph pole? wilhouse

While we're focusing on Coit Tower, could the blue lake-like image on the left be the outline of Pioneer Park?  I couldn't find a good map to compare the two outlines. Drew

I spent most of the day taking tons of pictures at Ghirardelli Square, actually, but I walked away disappointed.  The walls around Ghirardelli are brick, not stone, and though the air smells sweet, I couldn't find much else to satisfy me there. But I'm heading to Coit tomorrow.  I'll be wearing a black pullover and a green-and-blue striped polo shirt--bad fashion sense, but conspicuous.  If any of you want to meet me there, I'll almost certainly be in the tower vicinity all tomorrow morning, taking pictures, asking questions, and dropping hints.

And while I'm letting my mind wander a bit... Mark Twain often credited Bret Harte as being his mentor.  Harte apparently lived in SF at 716 Montgomery Street at the time he wrote some of his stories (Ralph Stackpole, one of the Coit muralists, also lived there).  And one of Harte's stories was "The Outcasts of Poker Flat". Has anyone connected "ace is high" to poker? Drew

hey, seems several of us are reading this right now!  let's meet in chat! I must be at the office all day Friday, and I don't think I'd want to be treasure hunting at night.  It's been a while since i've been near Coit, but I thought it was all residential streets.  (Hey, rbfox, it's right near where P.Dreizen lived!)  Maybe a bit of earth and trees along a winding page around the base?  Yes, it's been too long, but I think i'll continue working remotely on this one some more.  Good luck!  And welcome to California!

One final suggestion before I head out for the day:  " In jewel's direction " may refer not to the prize, but to Julius (Jules) Street, which is just north of Coit Tower. That one kept me up last night wondering...  How exactly would I get away with digging at a public landmark in broad daylight? Any tips on digging etiquette or protocol, just in case I get lucky a few more times and decide to go down that path at Coit Tower?

Okay, one MORE observation, again going with the Coit Tower theme.  I about peed my pants when I realized this one--and it was from reviewing a picture that I took two days ago, back when I was a relative novice! I have a picture of a very striking low-relief freize on the wall of a nearby residence.  It's three stories tall, and judging by the architecture and artistic style, it dates from the 1930s.  It depicts a shirtless man holding a globe while three airplanes fly overhead. It's also right across the street from the east pedestrian walkway to Pioneer Park, the home of Coit Tower. Could this be " Near ace is high? " Of course, the man is gigantic, so it could be " giant step ," too.  I'm more inclined to think that this line is a literal direction to take for the exact spot where the casque is to be found, though. Sadly, I can't upload the pictures because I have no way to shrink them on my laptop.  I've emailed my "ace" picture to forest blight, though, so maybe he can do it.

Mark Twain published in San Francisco's The Golden Era in the 1860s. Here are the articles: http://www.twainquotes.com/Era/eraindex.html I went through them all, and besides some very good reading (check out his hilarious Biographical Sketch of George Washington , March 4, 1866), many SF locations are given attention , some more than others. Here is a list of the ones I noticed: September 20, 1863 Lick House (huge hotel once located on the corner of Montgomery and Sutter, considered the "finest hotel west of the Mississippi;" destroyed 1906 along with pretty much everything else I'll mention) Occidental Hotel (like Lick House, also located on Montgomery St. between Sutter and Bush) September 27, 1863 Lick House September 27, 1863 Lick House Goat Island (Duchess of) (Goat Island is now Yerba Buena Island) October 11, 1863 Montgomery St. Occidental Hotel Lick House Seal Rock Point (NW corner of peninsula) Cliff House (NW corner of peninsula) March 27, 1864 Lick House Seal Rock Point June 17-23, 1864 Occidental Hotel Opera House (?) Metropolitan (on Montgomery St. between Washington and Jackson) the Academy of Music (on Pine St., below Montgomery) American (theatre on the corner of Sansome and Halleck) the New Idea (a theatre) the Museum (?) the Bank Exchange (?) Maguire's Opera House (on Washington St. above Montgomery) July 3, 1864 Cliff House Ocean House (a SF hotel, location unknown; where Sloat Blvd. meets the beach?) January 28, 1866 Kearny St. (a N-S street that, if it could, would run directly through Pioneer Park) January, 1866 Police Court January 28, 1866 Russ House (hotel on W. side of Montgomery St., between Bush and Pine) Cosmopolitan Hotel (once at 100 5th St.) Occidental Hotel February, 1866 Montgomery St. Clay St. Washington St. February 25-28, 1866 Occidental Hotel South Park (a park on South Park St., near southern end of Embarcadero) Twain also wrote for the Daily Morning Call : http://www.twainquotes.com/callindex.html I haven't gone through these in detail because the others took all morning, and I'm supposed to be working (!). But one mentions the Bella Union Melodeon (corner of Washington and Kearny). Anyway, many of these, plus other material, were apparently collected in the books Washoe Giant in San Francisco and Mark Twain's San Francisco , both of which may be worth obtaining and scouring at some point.

Here's a close-up I found of some of the windows in Coit Tower. Note the shape: Voltaire : As for the air smelling sweet at Ghirardelli Square, we could group the line The air smells sweet with Not far away rather than with At stone wall's door ; i.e., "if you're standing at Coit Tower (which also isn't stone, but concrete from what I understand), nearby at Ghirardelli Square the air is sweet, but here , high posts (successive telegraph towers) are three." So, we (might) have the following: At stone wall's door At Coit Tower... The air smells sweet Not far away Within sight is Ghirardelli Square with the "G h" backwards... High posts are three There were three telegraph towers here... Education and Justice For all to see You can see Berkeley and Alcatraz in those paintings that have the same shape as Image 1... Sounds from the sky ? Near ace is high The dude with the globe and airplanes across the street? drew : wilhouse and Fox connected ace is high to poker over on the Verse 7 thread, and you're right, that makes a lot of sense. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention ay, there's the rub Giant pole What could "pole" refer to? We are already aware of the Coit Tower reference, so this meaning would be redundant. Something else then? drew : Ralph Stackpole has "pole" in his name. Giant step There are some pretty giant step-like thingies in front of Coit Tower. Are they diggable? If so, the spot might resemble the planter area of the Cleveland find. http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap_coittower.htm To the place The casque is kept.

Here's a close-up I found of some of the windows in Coit Tower. Note the shape: Voltaire : As for the air smelling sweet at Ghirardelli Square, we could group the line The air smells sweet with Not far away rather than with At stone wall's door ; i.e., "if you're standing at Coit Tower (which also isn't stone, but concrete from what I understand), nearby at Ghirardelli Square the air is sweet, but here , high posts (successive telegraph towers) are three." So, we (might) have the following: At stone wall's door At Coit Tower... The air smells sweet Not far away Within sight is Ghirardelli Square with the "G h" backwards... High posts are three There were three telegraph towers here... Education and Justice For all to see You can see Berkeley and Alcatraz in those paintings that have the same shape as Image 1... Sounds from the sky ? Near ace is high The dude with the globe and airplanes across the street? drew : wilhouse and Fox connected ace is high to poker over on the Verse 7 thread, and you're right, that makes a lot of sense. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention ay, there's the rub Giant pole What could "pole" refer to? We are already aware of the Coit Tower reference, so this meaning would be redundant. Something else then? drew : Ralph Stackpole has "pole" in his name. Giant step There are some pretty giant step-like thingies in front of Coit Tower. Are they diggable? If so, the spot might resemble the planter area of the Cleveland find. http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap_coittower.htm To the place The casque is kept.

I'm heading out the door.  Call me on my cell phone at 443 306 5220 if there are any important tower-related finds, as I plan to have breakfast then be in that area all day today taking pictures or maybe even digging. Again, I'll be wearing a black pullover and a green polo shirt underneath.  I'm male, white, 6'2", with short brown hair if you want to stop me and say hi.

Just got off the phone with Voltaire (the treasure hunter, not the famous historical figure). He has some exciting updates, but I'll let him share them later. Hot on the trail now.

catherwood wrote:: it's right near where P.Dreizen lived! ahhh, the infamous P. Dreizen still say US was apple

is there a Havana St nearby?  wondering if CC  ( http://www.mayoff.com/5-01coitDCP01905.jpg ) could be object of Twains attention.  He had a famous quote about CC that went like this:  "In a museum in Havana there are two skulls of Christopher Columbus, "one when he was a boy and one when he was a man."" just some more ramblings.  CC statue is so close by tho.

wilhouse wrote:: I know this is a stretch, but somewhere in my mind I remember that a telegraph tower used to be known as a "pole", meaning that the possibly something on the Telegraph Hill could actually be the telegraph pole? wilhouse here is mention of poles used. http://www.noehill.com/sf/landmarks/cal0091.asp

fox : I wonder if it could be that simple! Is there dirt on top of the pedestal ( Giant step ) in which one could dig?

Voltaire's frieze on Montgomery:

a little more precise location of our pole? http://www.flickr.com/photos/allaboutge ... et-114799/ maybe the "Giant step" simply refers to the giant statue who would take giant steps. dirt on this pedestal fb? http://www.flickr.com/photos/allaboutge ... 799/  doesnt look like it and i dont see BP digging in the fenced in area around CC.  Could be nearby tho

fox : Sure looks like a lot of dirt to me. Anyway, something to think about. As for the plaque, would you believe Voltaire read me the contents of that plaque on the phone about an hour and a half ago? We were quite excited that it mentioned the pole.

another thought... could the table's pedestal in this P represent Coit Tower?  We still have yet to decipher the table.  I know it isnt the exact shape of Coit Tower http://www.magazinusa.com/images_st2/ca ... _tower.jpg like the buildings located in the 2 "found" P's but....... could it be something more like this? http://www.geoffreydrewmarketing.com/an ... nozzle.jpg "The artists also claimed that the building was a mockery because they assumed (as do many today) that architects Brown and Howard had designed the monument in the shape of a fire hose nozzle in memory of Lillie Coit's fondness for the Fire Department, an intention that the architects consistently denied."  found on history of CT http://www.coittower.org/history/histor ... tower.html the stem on the rose atop the table seems to curl into the letter "C" for Coit also

Alright...  Here is a point-by-point explanation of all I managed to find today.  Executive summary:  If I had had a shovel--and a little time alone--I would have dug.  The site is very crowded with tourists, though, so any dig will have to be early morning or late at night if possible. Before you ask, I have photographs to document every word of what follows. Alright, start with verse 7. At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Going up to Pioneer Park from the east side (Montgomery St), there is a long flight of steps made of concrete, not stone.  They are, however, surrounded by tons of different flowers, many of which I photographed.  They include roses, if it matters, and I am assured that in springtime the air smells wonderfully sweet. Incidentally, the nearest street address to this point of entrance is 1445 Montgomery.  Now turn to the woman's robe in Image 1.  Consider the number of sides of the figures surrounding the "Gh:"  They run circle, square, square, triangle, or 1-4-4-3, the address that the lot should have had (it's not marked, but this should be it). Go to the top of the concrete stairs, and there is a stone wall partly surrounding the top of Telegraph Hill around the border of Pioneer Park.  It's real stone--jasper--and not fake concrete stuff.  The air smells sweet here too, thanks to abundant flowering currant bushes. Not far away High posts are three Telegraph hill has been home to three high posts.  First, there was a semaphore tower, the foundations of which are still standing.  Second, there was a telegraph post, which is not in existence any longer.  Third, there is Coit Tower itself, whose windows all have the shape of the outside border of Image 1. Education and Justice For all to see These are likely the paintings of Alcatraz and the University, as discussed above in the thread.  I've photographed them myself, and my one remaining doubt concerns the capital letters:  There simply aren't any personifications of Education or Justice in evidence, and these are what we would expect from the capital letters. Sounds from the sky There is a memorial to Marconi, the inventor of radio, just across from the northwest end of Pioneer Park. Near ace is high The Montgomery Atlas, located at 1360 Montgomery Street.  He certainly looks like a flying ace, who can span the globe thanks to the airplanes flying overhead.  The closest intersecting street is called Alta, which means high in Spanish.  A line from the Montgomery Atlas through the Marconi memorial would go straight through Pioneer Park, and, I believe, directly across the treasure site as well. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction In a slightly different direction, Montgomery runs north-south; number 1360 is south of 1443, where the stairway can be found to Pioneer Park. But if you go north to the end of the street, you hit Julius' Castle, a restaurant and club that has been in operation since 1922.  Julius = Jules = jewel's. Is an object Of Twain's attention I haven't read enough Twain, but I understand that this exact neighborhood was a favorite topic of his. Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. Atop Telegraph Hill, the memorial plaque for the semaphore tower describes the device as a "tall pole."  My best guess at this point is to take a giant step from the foundation of the tower in the direction of Ghirardelli Square.  That square, with the backwards "Gh" plainly visible, is in a more or less direct line with Marconi, the semaphore tower, and the Montgomery Atlas/Ace. Difficulties: I drew very few matches on the architecture.  The image just doesn't show much relating to Coit Tower and its environment.  Yes, there are roses, and yes, there are the arched windows.  But everything up there is in this very spare, art-deco style, or else in done in 1930s-era socialist realism.  The motifs up there are nothing at all like the picture:  No yin-yangs; no roman numerals even.  (On a lark, I looked at every one of the engraved bricks that were placed in the steps to mark sponsors of the park's refurbishment.  Preiss doesn't show up...  Oh well.  That one would have been a dead giveaway.) So...  What do you all think?

Alright...  Here is a point-by-point explanation of all I managed to find today.  Executive summary:  If I had had a shovel--and a little time alone--I would have dug.  The site is very crowded with tourists, though, so any dig will have to be early morning or late at night if possible. Before you ask, I have photographs to document every word of what follows. Alright, start with verse 7. At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Going up to Pioneer Park from the east side (Montgomery St), there is a long flight of steps made of concrete, not stone.  They are, however, surrounded by tons of different flowers, many of which I photographed.  They include roses, if it matters, and I am assured that in springtime the air smells wonderfully sweet. Incidentally, the nearest street address to this point of entrance is 1445 Montgomery.  Now turn to the woman's robe in Image 1.  Consider the number of sides of the figures surrounding the "Gh:"  They run circle, square, square, triangle, or 1-4-4-3, the address that the lot should have had (it's not marked, but this should be it). Go to the top of the concrete stairs, and there is a stone wall partly surrounding the top of Telegraph Hill around the border of Pioneer Park.  It's real stone--jasper--and not fake concrete stuff.  The air smells sweet here too, thanks to abundant flowering currant bushes. Not far away High posts are three Telegraph hill has been home to three high posts.  First, there was a semaphore tower, the foundations of which are still standing.  Second, there was a telegraph post, which is not in existence any longer.  Third, there is Coit Tower itself, whose windows all have the shape of the outside border of Image 1. Education and Justice For all to see These are likely the paintings of Alcatraz and the University, as discussed above in the thread.  I've photographed them myself, and my one remaining doubt concerns the capital letters:  There simply aren't any personifications of Education or Justice in evidence, and these are what we would expect from the capital letters. Sounds from the sky There is a memorial to Marconi, the inventor of radio, just across from the northwest end of Pioneer Park. Near ace is high The Montgomery Atlas, located at 1360 Montgomery Street.  He certainly looks like a flying ace, who can span the globe thanks to the airplanes flying overhead.  The closest intersecting street is called Alta, which means high in Spanish.  A line from the Montgomery Atlas through the Marconi memorial would go straight through Pioneer Park, and, I believe, directly across the treasure site as well. Running north, but first across In jewel's direction In a slightly different direction, Montgomery runs north-south; number 1360 is south of 1443, where the stairway can be found to Pioneer Park. But if you go north to the end of the street, you hit Julius' Castle, a restaurant and club that has been in operation since 1922.  Julius = Jules = jewel's. Is an object Of Twain's attention I haven't read enough Twain, but I understand that this exact neighborhood was a favorite topic of his. Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. Atop Telegraph Hill, the memorial plaque for the semaphore tower describes the device as a "tall pole."  My best guess at this point is to take a giant step from the foundation of the tower in the direction of Ghirardelli Square.  That square, with the backwards "Gh" plainly visible, is in a more or less direct line with Marconi, the semaphore tower, and the Montgomery Atlas/Ace. Difficulties: I drew very few matches on the architecture.  The image just doesn't show much relating to Coit Tower and its environment.  Yes, there are roses, and yes, there are the arched windows.  But everything up there is in this very spare, art-deco style, or else in done in 1930s-era socialist realism.  The motifs up there are nothing at all like the picture:  No yin-yangs; no roman numerals even.  (On a lark, I looked at every one of the engraved bricks that were placed in the steps to mark sponsors of the park's refurbishment.  Preiss doesn't show up...  Oh well.  That one would have been a dead giveaway.) So...  What do you all think?

Wow, Voltaire, thanks for the report! Only a few notes for now. First, the tower was restored in 1984, after The Secret was written, so it is unlikely that you would have encountered Preiss' name in the bricks. I don't know the extent of the restoration, but it might have disrupted things a bit. Perhaps a giant flagpole was removed from somewhere. Second, I think you have hit upon the correct interpretation of the shapes as 1443. Excellent job. Even in the unlikely event that you turn out to be wrong that 1443 is a street address, the shapes certainly represent 1443 (or 3441 if we follow 'G h' backwards, but probably 1443).

1-4-4-3 was my husband's idea, which he thought up before we even knew the street address of the lot with the stairs on it. Right now I am wondering if someone with better connections than my own in this city might be able to get us some quick permission to dig, say from the park rangers or something?  I worry because there are security cameras trained on the parking lot around the columbus statue, so it's not likely to be too safe at any time of day.  And digging under cover of darkness is just asking to spend the night in jail.

More documentation: http://maps.google.com/maps?q=1360+Mont ... &t=k&hl=en 1360 Montgomery is where the Atlas/Ace can be found.  The street immediately below it is Alta, or "high." Just to the left is 1443 Montgomery (the numbers are a bit screwy, I admit).  This is the lot with the staircase, the flower gardens, and the way up to the stone wall, which is visible to the left, curving around the southeast end of Pioneer Park (it looks like a backwards J). At the end of Montgomery Street (covered by the balloon) is Julius' Palace. Now, here's where it gets interesting... To the northwest you can see Pioneer Park, with Coit Tower and the statue of Columubs.  To the north and a bit west of that is the Marconi memoria ("Sounds from the sky/ Near ace is high"), which looks like a half-circle rounded to the right. Make a line between 1360, 1443, and Marconi...  and it goes DIRECTLY through the very spot of the old signal tower, which is at about the 11 o'clock position of the circle going around the Columbus statue in front of Coit Tower.

Could the "giant step" refer to the Filbert Street Steps? Drew

If the giant step is the Filbert Street steps, then I have no idea where specifically to look for the casque.  As it stands, I've got one well-defined patch of dirt. Also, the Filbert Street steps are by no means the only ones around.  The place is crawiling with steps, so much so that I wore out one of my usually sturdy knees and can barely walk anymore.

Personally, I have some doubts that the 2 symbols on the left and the 2 symbols on the right should be read together as a 4-digit number.  To me, that seems something of a stretch.  I would find it more likely that if you reverse the photo (so that the Gh appears correctly), you get 34 on the left and 41 on the right, which are a better match for the pier numbers just north of the Coit area.  Perhaps their only purpose is to orient you in the right neighborhood, just like the 122 and 123 numbers do regarding longitude. I like the idea that "near ace is high" refers to Alta Street, but I'm not sure that the giant refers to an "ace".  He's not flying the planes! Drew

More details, as I digest them... 1.  The Marconi park isn't just a fluke.  Consider the inscription below his profile: "Fulgura praevertens vacvam vox permeat aethram." Using what scant Latin I can muster, I get... "Faster than lightning your voice permeates the empty aether..." 2. I could find no convincing items to match the table leg, but  there is a distinct four-holed spot next to the plaque marking the old semaphore pole.  It's clearly a place where something was torn out and where concrete was put to patch up the holes.  There were four of them, and I have a picture marking the spot.  Now what we need are old pictures of the area around Coit Tower to tell what used to be there, since I suspect the patching is recent.

Perhaps it's just the tail end of a wild, wild day, or perhaps I've made another find.  I will say, however, that I'm quite uncertain about this last one--unlike, say, Marconi being the "sounds from the sky," which seems a great fit. So... on top of everything else leading me to the neighborhood of Coit Tower and Pioneer Park, is it just my imagination or... Does Lillie Hitchcock Coit look a lot like the woman in Image 1? http://images.google.com/images?q=lilli ... N&filter=0 It's also said that she wore long black silk dresses to social functions with her husband.  Being the butch women's libber that she was, she also wore a flannel shirt on top of it. She died July 22, 1929, FWIW.

I think you're close on the trail. Now to figure out where to dig.. wilhouse

I'm not sure I saw a resemblance between Ms. Coit and the Image 1 woman, but how about this one? http://www.helfenfinearts.com/biogs/ima ... ieldOz.jpg Note that the artist is Otis Oldfield, our Coit Tower muralist. Drew

Am I imagining things, or does this say what I think it says? Drew

I give up.  What does it say? I get "CB," "CBB," and "ACB," but that's about it.  Of course, I am certainly open to suggestions.

drewsmith : Nice observation on the claws - I never looked closely at them before. Upside down, they could be a "93." (while on the subject of letters, there might be a DD at the very bottom of her robe). The 34 and 41 might be read separately, but I disagree with reading them backwards. I think the "G h" is backwards because that is how the letters are seen from Telegraph Hill. Voltaire : I'm afraid I see little resemblance between Coit and our lady. I can't place her ethnicity from her face, but the robe, the dragon, the origin of the pearl ("From far Cathay..."), and the yin and yang hint at Chinatown.

I spent a fair amount of time in Chinatown too, always with one eye out for the puzzle (and the other looking for cool stuff to buy).  I did not get any great leads from the place; even Old Saint Mary's Cathedral, which is located on California and Grant Streets in the heart of Chinatown, did not provide any satisfying leads.  Of the places I had a chance to explore, Telegrpah Hill remains by far the favorite.

A thing to consider is that the casque is not necessarily in Pioneer Park even if the reference is to Coit Tower. The tower could serve as a landmark or starting point for further directions (... Running north, but first across ).

Voltaire-- You mention something at the 11:00 position of a circle.  There are 11 moons in the pic.

Voltaire-- You mention something at the 11:00 position of a circle.  There are 11 moons in the pic.

forest_blight wrote:: drewsmith : Nice observation on the claws - I never looked closely at them before. Upside down, they could be a "93." Ummmm, I wasn't talking about the claws. I was talking about what looks like a word in the very middle of the part of the image I 've snipped.  Just below the left claw, to the left of the right claw.  ( I realize that I 'm being oblique, but I don't want to necessarily prejudice anyone else's interpretation.) Drew

forest_blight wrote:: drewsmith : Nice observation on the claws - I never looked closely at them before. Upside down, they could be a "93." Ummmm, I wasn't talking about the claws.  I was talking about what looks like a word in the very middle of the part of the image I've snipped.  Just below the left claw, to the left of the right claw.  (I realize that I'm being oblique, but I don't want to necessarily prejudice anyone else's interpretation.) Drew

Oh, I see. I can't make out a word, but that doesn't mean there isn't one there. But I do find it curious that one of the claws looks normal and the other one seems to form a loop.

Oh, I see. I can't make out a word, but that doesn't mean there isn't one there. But I do find it curious that one of the claws looks normal and the other one seems to form a loop.

Drew, dont know if this is what u r looking for but.... I can almost see the word COIT from top to bottom.

Drew, dont know if this is what u r looking for but.... I can almost see the word COIT from top to bottom.

My scale is a little off, but wow... this might be a match.

fox wrote:: Drew, dont know if this is what u r looking for but.... I can almost see the word COIT from top to bottom. Yup!  (although I thought it ran left to right...) Drew

fox wrote:: Drew, dont know if this is what u r looking for but.... I can almost see the word COIT from top to bottom. Yup!  (although I thought it ran left to right...) Drew

Fenix wrote:: I hate to post this here instead of on the verse thread but I have a feeling "near ace is high" is referring to 11th ave which runs on either side of GGP. I am sure there was discussion of this in the correct thread.  It seems "Sounds from the sky" with "near ace is high" is just a clever way to get people headed in the wrong direction. I mean who isn't going to start thinking about airplanes? I don't think I ever thought of it as relating to airplanes until someone else here suggested that idea.  "Ace is high" reminded me primarily of poker, and secondarily of the number "1".  Unless the context is already piloting, I wouldn't think of the word "ace" as referring to a pilot.  Unless there's an actual statue or painting of a pilot, or a famous pilot involved in the geography, I still think that it's a stretch to construe "ace" as having anything to do with the flying variety. Drew

Fenix wrote:: I hate to post this here instead of on the verse thread but I have a feeling "near ace is high" is referring to 11th ave which runs on either side of GGP.  I am sure there was discussion of this in the correct thread.  It seems "Sounds from the sky" with "near ace is high" is just a clever way to get people headed in the wrong direction.  I mean who isn't going to start thinking about airplanes? I don't think I ever thought of it as relating to airplanes until someone else here suggested that idea.  "Ace is high" reminded me primarily of poker, and secondarily of the number "1".  Unless the context is already piloting, I wouldn't think of the word "ace" as referring to a pilot.  Unless there's an actual statue or painting of a pilot, or a famous pilot involved in the geography, I still think that it's a stretch to construe "ace" as having anything to do with the flying variety. Drew

Fenix wrote:: I am sure the table has drove those of you close to this cask crazy. nobody liked my firehose theory?  oh well

Fenix wrote:: I am sure the table has drove those of you close to this cask crazy. nobody liked my firehose theory?  oh well

The table and the mountains/water ARE driving me crazy.  I'm back from my trip and will have more pictures posted soon, but I freely admit I have no plausible explanation for the following things: 1.  the table 2.  the weird shapes in the mountans 3.  the "object of Twain's attention," specifically 4.  the weird glyphs in the bottom 1/3 of the woman's tabard. Other than that, I think I can explain everything with the solution I've given.

The table and the mountains/water ARE driving me crazy. I 'm back from my trip and will have more pictures posted soon, but I freely admit I have no plausible explanation for the following things: 1.  the table 2.  the weird shapes in the mountans 3.  the "object of Twain's attention," specifically 4.  the weird glyphs in the bottom 1/3 of the woman's tabard. Other than that, I think I can explain everything with the solution I 've given.

still think table is a firehose

While I can see the firehose nozzle, it immediately reminded me of a metal Chinese garden lantern. I 've looked for an image of the ones that I 've seen, but I can't find the exact one. I 'd look for a Chinese garden in the area. Similar to this, but less ornate and made of metal -- http://www.bonsaiinformation.com/Potsfo ... rn%201.jpg

While I can see the firehose nozzle, it immediately reminded me of a metal Chinese garden lantern.  I've looked for an image of the ones that I've seen, but I can't find the exact one.  I'd look for a Chinese garden in the area. Similar to this, but less ornate and made of metal -- http://www.bonsaiinformation.com/Potsfo ... rn%201.jpg

There really aren't any Chinese gardens in the area now, I 'm afraid.  There are quite a few gardens of different types, but none with lamps or stands or whatever that looked like this table. I had a photocopy of the image with me while I was on Telegraph Hill, and I couldn't find anything like it despite searching for it specifically.  A firehose would be a great match, but I 'd have to see one that came from the era before I signed on to that theory.

There really aren't any Chinese gardens in the area now, I'm afraid.  There are quite a few gardens of different types, but none with lamps or stands or whatever that looked like this table.  I had a photocopy of the image with me while I was on Telegraph Hill, and I couldn't find anything like it despite searching for it specifically.  A firehose would be a great match, but I'd have to see one that came from the era before I signed on to that theory.

I believe it is just another reference to Ellie Coit which confirms Coit Tower.  Although, if that were the case, we may need another "outline" in this P for an actual building in the area.  Who knows anymore..... lol

I believe it is just another reference to Ellie Coit which confirms Coit Tower.  Although, if that were the case, we may need another "outline" in this P for an actual building in the area.  Who knows anymore..... lol

bclews wrote:: While I can see the firehose nozzle, it immediately reminded me of a metal Chinese garden lantern.  I've looked for an image of the ones that I've seen, but I can't find the exact one.  I'd look for a Chinese garden in the area. Similar to this, but less ornate and made of metal -- http://www.bonsaiinformation.com/Potsfo ... rn%201.jpg just to keep the GG Park - Coit Tower tug of war going, I'm going to add another tug in the GG Park direction... kind of like this one? (bottom right on link - its Japanese though) http://www.lightight.com/GGP/mem_images/Mem3P11.html

bclews wrote:: While I can see the firehose nozzle, it immediately reminded me of a metal Chinese garden lantern. I 've looked for an image of the ones that I 've seen, but I can't find the exact one. I 'd look for a Chinese garden in the area. Similar to this, but less ornate and made of metal -- http://www.bonsaiinformation.com/Potsfo ... rn%201.jpg just to keep the GG Park - Coit Tower tug of war going, I 'm going to add another tug in the GG Park direction... kind of like this one? (bottom right on link - its Japanese though) http://www.lightight.com/GGP/mem_images/Mem3P11.html

SoonerFan wrote:: just to keep the GG Park - Coit Tower tug of war going, I 'm going to add another tug in the GG Park direction... kind of like this one? (bottom right on link - its Japanese though) http://www.lightight.com/GGP/mem_images/Mem3P11.html My bad. Yeah, that's what I was looking for.

SoonerFan wrote:: just to keep the GG Park - Coit Tower tug of war going, I'm going to add another tug in the GG Park direction... kind of like this one? (bottom right on link - its Japanese though) http://www.lightight.com/GGP/mem_images/Mem3P11.html My bad. Yeah, that's what I was looking for.

Okay SoonerFan, I'll bite. I think the evidence in favor of Coit Tower as the casque's location is overwhelming , and that for GG Park is sketchy at best. First, support for Coit Tower... 1. The street map hidden in dragon's scales 2. The shape of the windows in Coit Tower match that of Image 1 (unique to that image) 3. Education and Justice / For all to see are visible in the 2 Image-1-shaped paintings 4. 1-4-4-3 (on her robe) would be the exact address of the stairway leading up to the Tower 5. Sounds from the sky = telegraph tower or the nearby Marconi memorial 6. It is near where The air smells sweet (Ghirardelli Square) 7. Telegraph Hill has had High posts are three Individually suggestive, together they are utterly convincing. I think the evidence suggests that Coit Tower (and surrounding grounds) is not merely a landmark, but the site of the casque's burial. I am still on the fence about "jewel" = "Julius" and about the Atlas fresco being the "ace is high" reference, but they are certainly good theories) As for GG Park, we have the possible outline of one of the lakes, and I'll admit that the rectangular portion of her robe is evocative of GG Park turned on its side, but the dimensions (ratio of width to length) are off by more than you'd expect if one was a representation of the other (ratios 1:4.9 vs. 1:6.2). I am also not as convinced as some that the verse refers to nearby thoroughfares. I think it more likely that Mr. Preiss intended Sounds from the sky metaphorically rather than literally. It is a riddle, after all. Fox : At first I admit I snorted derisively at your suggestion that the table stand represented a firehose, but now I'm not feeling so derisive

Thanks for the snort FB  lol.  To set the record straight, I am in no way trying to steer hunters either to or from a site.  My firehose idea just "sort of" fits nicely with the whole Coit Tower.  I honestly think we are zeroing in on this one and that SF will be the next city to finally release its casque.

don't bet on that!! wilhouse

Hmmmmmm..... Are you saying that based on the demonstrated difficulty in finding any casque? Or do you have an expectation that another city will be next?  Houston? Do tell.

wilhouse wrote:: don't bet on that!! wilhouse Are you getting close wilhouse?  Or better yet, are you just waiting for your pictures to be developed so you can post your FIND on these boards?  Hopefully the latter....but closer will work for me too.

Fox, I don't want to clog up this thread with verse 1 stuff; no I don't have it in hand, but before he passed Preiss told me that I had the right location. So I just need for the heat to break and go back and get it! wilhouse

Great News Wilhouse!  I told you you would get it.  I can't wait to see the pix!

I'm not counting my chickens, we know we can be off by 6" and not find the dang thing!! wilhouse

I was doing some snooping around for another hunt ( Quest: In Search of the Dragon Tooth ) and noticed something peculiar. There is a more than passing resemblance between the rocks in Image 1 and the backgrounds of a pair of famous Da Vinci paintings called Madonna of the Rocks or Virgin of the Rocks . Images can be found everywhere, so I won't post them here. See: http://www.lairweb.org.nz/leonardo/rocks.html http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=15432 http://www.artrenewal.org/asp/database/image.asp?id=1980 To see my findings relevant to Quest , visit the Q4T forum on that book.

Unknown: The shape of the windows in Coit Tower match that of Image 1 (unique to that image) I don't know why I said this. Clearly Image 12 has the same arch shape to it, as do the panels just before Image 1 and just after Image 12. It may not be significant at all.

I have been reading Byron Preiss's co-authored fantasy novel Dragonworld (1979).  One of the characters has to get a dragon pearl.  I do not think this helps with the hunt, but it is interesting.

If the G and the h are backwards, by flipping the pic horizantally, you can see them the right way.  Maybe the claws should be looked at the same way. http://www.freewebs.com/boogieman13/page1.htm Looks like f and p.  I know Fulton St has been mentioned. How about Fulton Place or something similar?

IMMIGRATION PORT CITY San Francisco "The Angel Island Immigration Station Angel Island is probably best known as the home of the Angel Island Immigration Station. The station, which operated from 1910 to 1940, was the main entry point into the United States for people arriving from the Pacific routes. More than one million people were processed at the station; most were allowed to enter the United States immediately and did not spend much, if any, time on the island. Rather, they were allowed to enter San Francisco soon after their ships docked, and their paperwork was forwarded to the immigration station for processing and storage. Because so many people were processed there, Angel Island is often called America's "Ellis Island of the West." This name is not accurate, however, due to an important difference in the missions of the two immigration stations. On Ellis Island, immigrants were welcomed to the United States, and the vast majority were processed and landed immediately. On Angel Island, however, many immigrants--most of whom were Chinese--were not welcomed at all and were allowed into this country only grudgingly. The Chinese exclusion laws, first passed in 1882 and updated periodically until 1943, were enacted to keep Chinese immigrants out of the United States. During the twentieth century, several other Asian ethnic groups were added as well to the "excluded" list. In the mid- to late nineteenth century, large numbers of Chinese people were coming to the United States, drawn initially by the gold rush to San Francisco and Gam Saan (the Gold Mountain) then to work as inexpensive laborers on the transcontinental railroad and in mines in the western part of the country.(10) Many American-born workers perceived these laborers as having taken jobs away from them, and when an economic depression hit the United States in the 1870s, the anti-Chinese sentiment increased enormously. In response to public opinion, Congress passed the exclusion laws. In enforcing these laws, immigration officials detained newly arrived Chinese people while they determined their eligibility to enter the United States. According to some estimates, 75 to 80 percent of the arrivals were admitted to the United States after some form of detention. Most detention periods ranged from few days or a couple of weeks to six months; a few lasted as long as nearly two years. Regardless of the length of time, detainees had little, if any, contact with friends or relatives on the mainland. For this reason, the immigration station on Angel Island was known among Immigration Service officials as the "Guardian of the Western Gate."(11) A vessel carrying Chinese immigrants is met by the Health Service boat from Angel Island. The first laws barred the immigration of Chinese laborers for ten years: "Whereas in the opinion of the Government of the United States the coming of Chinese laborers to this country endangers the good order of certain localities within the territory thereof . . . the coming of Chinese laborers to the United States . . . is hereby suspended, and during such suspension it shall not be lawful for any Chinese laborer to come . . . [to] the United States."(12) The law was also explicit regarding matters of citizenship for Chinese people: "hereafter no State court or court of the United States shall admit Chinese to citizenship."(13) The exclusion laws granted exemptions to certain groups of Chinese people. Teachers, consular officials, tourists, merchants, and the wives and children of exempt individuals were allowed to enter the United States. This last group of exempt people were generally the relatives of American-born Chinese or of those Chinese people who had been naturalized prior to the passage of the law and who had left families behind in China when they immigrated to the United States. Sometimes, however, Chinese men returned to China, married, and brought their wives to the United States. In 1888 Congress passed another law, restricting a Chinese person's right to travel: "No Chinese laborer in the United States shall be permitted, after having left, to return thereto."(14) Again, as with the original exclusion laws, there were exceptions to this law. Individuals whose wives or children resided in the United States and those whose assets in this country were greater than one thousand dollars were allowed to leave and return. The exclusion laws were renewed in 1892, with additional provisions. The most restrictive one required all Chinese laborers legally residing in the United States to obtain certificates of residence that offered proof of their legal status. Any Chinese laborer without such a certificate would be subject to arrest and deportation. Laws similar to these were also adopted around the turn of century in the Hawaiian territories.(15) " taken from http://www.english.uiuc.edu/maps/poets/ ... natale.htm

Located on Angel Island is this monument. I find it interesting how it has 2 columns of characters and a round object centered above the columns....... similar to the pear above the robe in P1.

Use the image as a map. See the arms as the bridge linking Oakland to San Francisco. The roadway off the middle and through the islands is referred to as the Serpentine. Also, Yerba Buena is known, used, as the original Alcatraz. http://search.netscape.com/ns/boomframe ... 5201_6.pdf

Brief article in this month's Smithsonian magazine on Angel Island. http://www.smithsonianmagazine.com/issues/2006/may/da_island.php

Imagine this.  Can be seen from Angel Island.  FB, your finds from Chicago (and Jambone's match), got me thinking.  Maybe this is relevant. Alcatraz Warden's house.               prison?

Nice find, boogie. This is definitely worth remembering.

FWIW, the nickname for Alcatraz is "The Rock".  Lots of rock in image 1.

Guys Have you thought literally about the picture and considered that the location of the pearl is in direct relation to the Golden Gate Bridge ie.  If you move south, by the requisite amount, you get to San Bruno (Golden Gate) Cemetary. This has a MASSIVE circular STEP with A GIANT POLE and , from the air is a White Circle sitting in a variant of a Yin Yang shape. At the same time, it's Lat/Long are similar to San Francisco, but have the coincidence of being exactly on the 37 Degrees, 38' line (taking into account both numbers identified in the hair) Have a look on Google earth at 37.38' N 122. 26' W

Also still next to Highway 1 (Aces High) And next to SFO international Airport (Sounds from the Sky)

And the tie in to  "An object of Twain's delight" ?

the old guy idea on this... is an object of twain's attention... could it be something other than the river, such as the mississippi queen riverboat(mooring dock), or the area becky got lost in the cave ? just ideas.  just havin' fun!!!

Well, Twain did lampoon undertakers and cemeteries in SF, so a cemetery could be the object. http://www.notfrisco.com/colmatales/twain.html We should note that the book states clearly that the casques are not located in cemeteries. There are a number of cemeteries located near GGP: http://www.sanfranciscocemeteries.com/maps.html .

This link is for the World's Fair people. http://www.inetours.com/Pages/SFNbrhds/ ... sland.html

I'm still in favor of Pioneer Park / Coit Tower for our casque site, but I wonder if anyone has considered the Sutro Bath ruins, just north of the Cliff House in San Francisco. There are thousands of pictures online at flickr.com and webshots.com. It is a place of stunning beauty. Plenty of stone walls … there's even a giant pole and some giant steps . The seal rocks near the Cliff House and Sutro Baths remind one of P1.

I have been working on this one for a while. I have some information that you might be interested in. I believe the casque is hidden in a specific location on Angel Island. I will get my facts in order and explain.

I hope if someone finds it using the information that I am willing to share, that I receive something fair and equitable. I guess the first thing that got me interested in this particular one, was the picture...dark and mysterious.  Plus it's picture number one, so a good place to start. If you look at Fox's picture of the asian monument above there is a lot more going on than what Fox explained.  Sorry to be painfully obvious but I will point out what I see. The thing that struck me the most wasn't what's on the monument, but the shape of it.  It almost aligns perfectly with the silhouet of the girls shoulders and arms. The symbols also line up as well with the flower top center as the pearl and the large charcters running up and down the monument match the blue section of the dress as Fox pointed out. What clinched it for me were the smaller characters of the monument.  The two columns match perfectly with the Blue colored cuffs of the picture. I'm not sure there is anything more than what I explained about the monument and the picture other than I think the authors intent was to make this the main focus of this puzzle.  This also aligns with the whole immigration theme. More to come..

I do not have computer skills, but perhaps someone can position the image on top of the photo of the monument.

Welcome ac3100! I'm still favoring Coit Tower for this one, but does this match what you're saying? It would be helpful to discover when this monument was erected. Online searches suggest that it is called the "Chinese Immigrants Memorial," if that helps. I could find no reference to its origin.

Forest Blight - Yes, that is what I am seeing.  I think the similarities from the artwork to the monument are too close to be a coincidence.  The shoulder and arm outline is not the same on either side, but I think the fact that they are not uniform, like the monument, is what is important here.  It does appear that the left arm/shoulder matches better on the left side of the monument than right. As far as the timing goes, I researched this during my discovery phase a few months back.  This is the general story about how the monument got there: "How do I get to Angel Island? What will I see there? Our section Island Information has information on how to visit Angel Island Immigration Station as well as other information about the Island (ferries, campsites, tours, etc). To visit the Station, visitors will need to take a ferry from either Tiburon, San Francisco, or Oakland/Alameda to Angel Island, and then walk about a mile to the station. The Immigration Station site has a few remaining buildings: a power plant, hospital, pump house, mule barn, and barracks (which contain the poetry). The barracks houses a museum and is the only building open to the public by guided tour. A mess hall and two other barracks remain from when the site was used as a World War II prisoner of war processing center. The site also has restrooms, a drinking fountain, a historic fog warning bell once on the wharf's pier , and a monument donated in 1979 by Victor Bergeron, owner of Trader Vic's restaurant in San Francisco ." This is from: http://www.aiisf.org/faqs So the date fits and since it was somewhat new at the time of the writing of the book and was probably a "good fit" and/or too hard to ignore for the author.  I understand that he had a freind or relative in the area and probably tipped him off of this. As far as Coit Tower goes, It is an important part of this puzzle, but I don't beleive that it is the area of interest.  I will explain later..

Forest Blight - Yes, that is what I am seeing.  I think the similarities from the artwork to the monument are too close to be a coincidence.  The shoulder and arm outline is not the same on either side, but I think the fact that they are not uniform, like the monument, is what is important here.  It does appear that the left arm/shoulder matches better on the left side of the monument than right. As far as the timing goes, I researched this during my discovery phase a few months back.  This is the general story about how the monument got there: "How do I get to Angel Island? What will I see there? Our section Island Information has information on how to visit Angel Island Immigration Station as well as other information about the Island (ferries, campsites, tours, etc). To visit the Station, visitors will need to take a ferry from either Tiburon, San Francisco, or Oakland/Alameda to Angel Island, and then walk about a mile to the station. The Immigration Station site has a few remaining buildings: a power plant, hospital, pump house, mule barn, and barracks (which contain the poetry). The barracks houses a museum and is the only building open to the public by guided tour. A mess hall and two other barracks remain from when the site was used as a World War II prisoner of war processing center. The site also has restrooms, a drinking fountain, a historic fog warning bell once on the wharf's pier, and a monument donated in 1979 by Victor Bergeron, owner of Trader Vic's restaurant in San Francisco ." This is from: http://www.aiisf.org/faqs So the date fits and since it was somewhat new at the time of the writing of the book and was probably a "good fit" and/or too hard to ignore for the author.  I understand that he had a freind or relative in the area and probably tipped him off of this. As far as Coit Tower goes, It is an important part of this puzzle, but I don't beleive that it is the area of interest.  I will explain later..

I am (as most of us) sold that this image is some where in San Francisco. Also, as a nod to Andy, I will repeat the mantra that the placement of the jewel in the image is paramont in determining the exact digging spot for the casque. (from general clues to the specfic location orientation) An observation that I have been going on with this image - the arms represent a bridge (crossing) So either the Golden Gate or the Bay Bridge. The jewel is situated at the middle of the 'crossing' What is the view of Alcatraz from Angel Island. (This would be helpful detrmining if an island could be the site as opposed to a main land location)

ac3100 wrote:: Forest Blight - Yes, that is what I am seeing.  I think the similarities from the artwork to the monument are too close to be a coincidence.  The shoulder and arm outline is not the same on either side, but I think the fact that they are not uniform, like the monument, is what is important here.  It does appear that the left arm/shoulder matches better on the left side of the monument than right. I would say that in the above picture, the outline of the monument appears to be a mirror image of the silhouette of the shoulders.  I think it's actually a good match.  Nice work!

What verses have we put aside for us to match with San fran?  Gonna have to steal from another image? Nice job acAndy!

This as far as I could get with the image at this point.  I started to look at the verses and started with verse 7 because that was the one that was linked to the image at the time.  There was no mention of New Orleans that I was aware of. I'm not sure if I should post this here or on the verse 7 page.  I will let the moderators guide me on this. I looked at a lot of the comments about this and took some that make sense to me and added a bit of myown thoughts. At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Because of the backwards Gh, I thought that this part was a direct link to the picture.  A great start in my opinion.  Ghiradehli building San Francisco. Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see There are some refernces to buildings in the downtown SF area, I decided not to pursue this line too much atthis point because it seems very vague to me. Sounds from the sky Near ace is high I believed this to be Highway 1 and possibly the golden gate bridge reference. Possibly SFO international. Again pretty vague. I think the main purpose of the first part of the poem is to get you to the downtown area of San Francisco.  There are a lot of images that reference the area as well. The part in the girls hair: Golden Gate bridge The Coit tower in her dress Golden Gate park The blue/dragon part of the dress. The coordinates Possibly Alcratraz Island with the window at the to of the rock formation. among other things. I really think that that is all the author is trying to do here.  If any of these locations are the location of the Jewel, which one do you pick? For me this is the next four lines gets you to Angel Island: Running north, but first across I think this is a very important clue. Across what?  Based on the picture and the monument on angel Island and having a starting point of downtown SF, it all fits too well to mean that he is talking about water.  You must go NORTH across the water to Angel Island.  Angel Island happens to be directly North of Downtown SF. In jewel's direction This to me simply means that the jewel is North of our starting point.  Not in the downtown area These two lines are cleverly written Is an object Of Twain's attention I think it may have a dual meaning.  As you know Mark Twain spent a considerable amount of time living and work in SF as a newspaper reporter.  He is also known for his steamship escapades.  The steamship might be a refernce to going across the water, maybe not. The second theory is that the word "attention" has a military signifcance.  Here is an article about Mark Twains visit to Angel Island in 1864(Civil war era). In July of 1864 General Irvin McDowell, Commanding Officer of the Department of the Pacific, made an inspection tour of Angel Island. Accompanying the Army officers and dignitaries on the tour was a young reporter who later would become famous as “Mark Twain,” but at the time, proud of being a reporter, called himself “Clemens, of the Call.” Clemens said the fortifications on Angel Island “were fast growing into formidable proportions.” That same month the Commanding Officer of Camp Reynolds reported that thirteen guns were mounted and there were 7,400 pounds of powder, and 2,600 rounds of shot and shell on hand. This was from:http://www.militarymuseum.org/CpReynolds.html and has a great write-up of the military history of Angel Island. Also you can see a redition of Abraham Lincoln head in the rocks looking up as if he was lying on his back.  A civil war era reference and a nice tie in. I am going to wait to tell you what I think about this last section as this gets you to the final resting place of the casque Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept.

http://www.sanfranciscoonline.com/maps.html A nice resource with as much detail as you'd get without being there.

A translation of the inscription on the monument: Leaving their home and villages, they crossed the ocean Only to endure confinement in these barracks; Conquering frontiers and barriers, they pioneered a new life by the golden gate. -- Ngoot P. Chin http://www.americansall.com/PDFs/02-americans-all/13.9.pdf

So I shared with you what I had reasoned up till about the end of June. I should add that my colleague at work has been involved with this as well.  His name is Al Dahlgren. We were stuck with this photo and the poem. And then it hit! We got something that we thought was really interesting.  It will probably jump out at you with a little direction. I am going to see if you can figure it out. It has  to do with symbolism and perspective..

Andy, some folks on this forum have been working this puzzle for 20+ years. If it was going to jump out at us, it would have by now! I'm all ears.

You need both pictures to see it.  It should jump out if you don't try too hard. Clue: Look on the left side of the pictures.

I'll take a shot... The palm tree in the photo of the monument is in roughly the same position as the pedestal/rose in image 1.  Also, in the photo, you can see the bay behind the monument, and then land on the other side of the bay; in image 1, you can see a body of water behind the lady, and then land (more rocks) behind the water.  From this perspective, Alcatraz is behind the observer. Trying to work more with this perspective... The immigration station is on the NNE side of Angel Island (see the map at http://www.the4cs.com/~corin/photos/2004/genodix/2004071011080.html ).  Alcatraz, which has the warden's tower, which seems to match nicely with the arched window in the rocks in image1, is SSW of Angel Island.  So if an observer is on Angel Island at the Chinese immigration monument, and they can see the Warden's tower in the background, then they must be facing SSW, which means they have their back to the water.  For things to line up as in image 1, the observer would be standing behind the monument, which would be consistent with the woman's silhouette being the mirror image of the outline of the monument.  But, all of this is contrary to the paragraph above.

I'll carry that thought a little further... The clock says "6:00" which can mean "behind you".  Looking behind her we see land, then water, then land, then water, then land.  The middle "land" has the window/door with bars on it.  Alcatraz? Here's a stretch -- the mountains just above her shoulders COULD be angel wings.  (Hey, I said it was a stretch.) (Thanks, Jambone.  Your edit made my post redundant. )

Some time ago I mentioned the uncanny resemblance between the background of this image and that of Leonardo's paintings "Madonna of the Rocks" and "Virgin of the Rocks." A nickname for Alcatraz is "The Rock." I wonder if this was an intentional visual pun on the part of JJP...

Great one Forest.  Have you ever done an overlay with the Madonna of the Rocks to this painting?  Both frames are almost identical. To the rest, you got most of it!  But not the most important part! Not sure about the Alcatraz part or at least putting a lot of weight into it. Does anyone know about the "Angel" of Angel island?

An overlay wouldn't match up well. But just visually comparing them, it is hard not to see the resemblance in the backgrounds. Water on the left, weird rocks protruding everywhere and suspended in space, a woman in the middle, jewel at her throat... two paintings called "...of the Rocks " when Alcatraz is called "The Rock" (the barred window may be symbolic of a prison). Anyway, just thought I'd throw that out there.

I will have to disagree that they don't match up well. Look at image 1.  Notice how there is a line running through it?  It goes through where her elbows are.  That is where the bottom of the madonna of the rocks painting would go.

I will have to disagree that they don't match up well. Look at image 1.  Notice how there is a line running through it?  It goes through where her elbows are.  That is where the bottom of the madonna of the rocks painting would go.

I tried lining them up and did find some simalarities as far as rock formations go. I 'm not sure if there is more to this or not but it seems to be too much of a coincidence.

I tried lining them up and did find some simalarities as far as rock formations go. I'm not sure if there is more to this or not but it seems to be too much of a coincidence.

Any found connections to the "Many Moons" I found a link (probably forced) to poems written on the Immigration Station Walls referencing 'many moons' and 'full moons' written by the Japanese detainees.

Any found connections to the "Many Moons" I found a link (probably forced) to poems written on the Immigration Station Walls referencing 'many moons' and 'full moons' written by the Japanese detainees.

Did not find any connections to the 11 moons. Went down the Space program route and asian route. The only thing I came up with is that it is an important chinese symbol. Jambone, you left one thing out from your observation!

Did not find any connections to the 11 moons. Went down the Space program route and asian route. The only thing I came up with is that it is an important chinese symbol. Jambone, you left one thing out from your observation!

If you're referring to the palm tree trunk resembling the table leg, I 'm not sure I buy it. It is not a close match, and one would have to stand exactly where the photographer was standing.

If you're referring to the palm tree trunk resembling the table leg, I'm not sure I buy it. It is not a close match, and one would have to stand exactly where the photographer was standing.

The table leg always made me think of "Candlestick"

The table leg always made me think of "Candlestick"

ac3100 wrote:: Jambone, you left one thing out from your observation! Sorry, I can't seem to figure it out.

ac3100 wrote:: Jambone, you left one thing out from your observation! Sorry, I can't seem to figure it out.

What about the object next to it.

Next to what?  The table leg?  There ain't much there... Next to the rose is the clock with the bell on top, but it's not much of a match for the bell down by the shore.  I'm stumped.

Next to what?  The table leg?  There ain't much there... Next to the rose is the clock with the bell on top, but it's not much of a match for the bell down by the shore. I 'm stumped.

Okay, so while I was staring at this image, I found the numbers 37 and 38 in the lady's hair.  Angel Island is at approximately 37 degrees 51 minutes north latitude - I scanned through this thread and didn't see that these had been documented already - my apologies if I'm wrong.  The 37 is to the left of her neck, and the 38 is to the right of her face.

Okay, so while I was staring at this image, I found the numbers 37 and 38 in the lady's hair.  Angel Island is at approximately 37 degrees 51 minutes north latitude - I scanned through this thread and didn't see that these had been documented already - my apologies if I 'm wrong.  The 37 is to the left of her neck, and the 38 is to the right of her face.

Okay, so while I was staring at this image, I found the numbers 37 and 38 in the lady's hair. Angel Island is at approximately 37 degrees 51 minutes north latitude - I scanned through this thread and didn't see that these had been documented already - my apologies if I'm wrong.  The 37 is to the left of her neck, and the 38 is to the right of her face.

Sorry I guess I wasn't very clear. Compare the Girl, rose and the clock to The Monument, tree and the billboard. The billboard is the object directly next to the tree

Sorry I guess I wasn't very clear. Compare the Girl, rose and the clock to The Monument, tree and the billboard. The billboard is the object directly next to the tree

Forgive me if this has been mentioned -- Here's a picture of Ocean Beach at the end of GG park. http://www.inetours.com/images/Snglimgs/TotemBeach.jpg

Forgive me if this has been mentioned -- Here's a picture of Ocean Beach at the end of GG park. http://www.inetours.com/images/Snglimgs/TotemBeach.jpg

Unknown: I scanned through this thread and didn't see that these had been documented already We've had it in the "What has been found" thread for awhile, but it is interesting that the numbers never made it to this thread. With the 37, 38, 122, and 123 all visible in this pic, there is pretty much zero doubt that the casque is in the San Francisco area.

Unknown: I scanned through this thread and didn't see that these had been documented already We've had it in the "What has been found" thread for awhile, but it is interesting that the numbers never made it to this thread. With the 37, 38, 122, and 123 all visible in this pic, there is pretty much zero doubt that the casque is in the San Francisco area.

Just lucubrating... Lady seems to be pointing a symbol in the monument... Or maybe is pointing us the burial site? El Jayo

When The picture below and the painting lined up with the: monument, tree and billboard to the womans outline, rose and clock Eljayo...Good observation.  However I am going to contend that you actually have to flip the girl around to match the monument properly from this vantage point. By doing that, she is actually pointing at the rose and the clock.  You cannot flip the rose and the clock because it has the water in the background I got pretty excited. It was time to take the next step. Reviewing the last part of the the poem which reads: Giant Pole Giant Step To the place The casque is kept. I started to think my connections of the picture to the image might be correct! Before I had been looking for pictures on Angel Island for Flag poles.  The thing that bothered me though was the giant step part.  How big is a giant step?  The only way that could make sense is that it would have to be in the image. Then it hit me.  Could the "Giant pole" in this case be the palm tree? The Billboard is postioned another 15ft behind the tree..  and you have to cross a 10 ft wide paved trail to get to it. Could the "Giant step" be a figurative statement that you must step over the paved trail? Since I couldn't go there, I decided to get in contact with the Park Service. I got in touch with the Park Superintedant of Angel Island. This is no joke ...Dave Matthews. I told him about the treasure hunt and that I thought there was something buried in the park.  I sent him the picture and the peom and we discussed what I thought was a pretty good solution. The solution being that I thought the casque was buried underneath the billboard. I asked him about the billboard and he said: "it's a billboard that has some information about park events and information about the island. Year's ago there used to be a Fire Hose on the back of it" 😮 My question to everyone is:  What is the object holding up the table in the image? I think, and it's been mentioned before, it's a fire hose nozzle. Here are the pictures again:

When The picture below and the painting lined up with the: monument, tree and billboard to the womans outline, rose and clock Eljayo...Good observation.  However I am going to contend that you actually have to flip the girl around to match the monument properly from this vantage point. By doing that, she is actually pointing at the rose and the clock.  You cannot flip the rose and the clock because it has the water in the background I got pretty excited. It was time to take the next step. Reviewing the last part of the the poem which reads: Giant Pole Giant Step To the place The casque is kept. I started to think my connections of the picture to the image might be correct! Before I had been looking for pictures on Angel Island for Flag poles.  The thing that bothered me though was the giant step part.  How big is a giant step?  The only way that could make sense is that it would have to be in the image. Then it hit me.  Could the "Giant pole" in this case be the palm tree? The Billboard is postioned another 15ft behind the tree..  and you have to cross a 10 ft wide paved trail to get to it. Could the "Giant step" be a figurative statement that you must step over the paved trail? Since I couldn't go there, I decided to get in contact with the Park Service. I got in touch with the Park Superintedant of Angel Island. This is no joke ...Dave Matthews. I told him about the treasure hunt and that I thought there was something buried in the park. I sent him the picture and the peom and we discussed what I thought was a pretty good solution. The solution being that I thought the casque was buried underneath the billboard. I asked him about the billboard and he said: "it's a billboard that has some information about park events and information about the island. Year's ago there used to be a Fire Hose on the back of it" 😮 My question to everyone is:  What is the object holding up the table in the image? I think, and it's been mentioned before, it's a fire hose nozzle. Here are the pictures again:

When The picture below and the painting lined up with the: monument, tree and billboard to the womans outline, rose and clock Eljayo...Good observation.  However I am going to contend that you actually have to flip the girl around to match the monument properly from this vantage point. By doing that, she is actually pointing at the rose and the clock.  You cannot flip the rose and the clock because it has the water in the background I got pretty excited. It was time to take the next step. Reviewing the last part of the the poem which reads: Giant Pole Giant Step To the place The casque is kept. I started to think my connections of the picture to the image might be correct! Before I had been looking for pictures on Angel Island for Flag poles.  The thing that bothered me though was the giant step part.  How big is a giant step?  The only way that could make sense is that it would have to be in the image. Then it hit me.  Could the "Giant pole" in this case be the palm tree? The Billboard is postioned another 15ft behind the tree..  and you have to cross a 10 ft wide paved trail to get to it. Could the "Giant step" be a figurative statement that you must step over the paved trail? Since I couldn't go there, I decided to get in contact with the Park Service. I got in touch with the Park Superintedant of Angel Island. This is no joke ...Dave Matthews. I told him about the treasure hunt and that I thought there was something buried in the park.  I sent him the picture and the peom and we discussed what I thought was a pretty good solution. The solution being that I thought the casque was buried underneath the billboard. I asked him about the billboard and he said: "it's a billboard that has some information about park events and information about the island. Year's ago there used to be a Fire Hose on the back of it" 😮 My question to everyone is:  What is the object holding up the table in the image? I think, and it's been mentioned before, it's a fire hose nozzle. Here are the pictures again:

Please note the following: http://www.parks.ca.gov/lat_long_map/de ... lvl_id=105 You can not see the 'GH' from Angel Island.

Have you not followed the logic to my solution?

If you are thinking of going there to dig.  Don't. You have to get permission first.  I tried.  The park superintendent informed me a couple months ago that that area is under construction and is totally roped off. They are actually moving the monument to a new location and reconstructing the immigration station that burnt down decades ago.

Things to think: -Could 'Gh' be there for tell us the image is a mirror? There is some things pointing us to SF: 'Gh', Coit tower (with shape as fire hose -> object holding up the table), SF bay, Golden Gate, and more, but this monument seem as pointing us the burial site (a match with lady shape). May be is needed more work with verses to complete the idea... -In google: define: pole -> a square rod (16,5ft) of land , i,e -> 272 ft 2 then, monument is in a pole? Giant step -> leaping from square border to wall in lady's finger directions? Just some ideas to share and discuss... It's time that another casque see the sun's light!!!

ac3100 wrote:: If you are thinking of going there to dig.  Don't. You have to get permission first.  I tried.  The park superintendent informed me a couple months ago that that area is under construction and is totally roped off. They are actually moving the monument to a new location and reconstructing the immigration station that burnt down decades ago. bad news!!!

ac3100 wrote:: Have you not followed the logic to my solution? Yep, I have.  Just do not think that is the location. Photo of the sign: http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-Ghirardelli.htm A closer view, with something interesting in the foreground (maybe too recent an addition) http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-Ghirardelli.htm I agree that this figure is a mirror image of the casque site (where in SF that would be?) I think that with the orientation of 'Alcatraz', the casque site would be to the south. Angel Island may be the mass behind the Alcatraz portion. (Under the many moons) I see the China woman standing on a flat shoreline, a small channel of water, Alcatraz, and then a larger stretch of water, and another rocky island. Here is the view from Aquatic Park: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hist ... c_Park.jpg In your solve, with the Immigration Station, you disregard the serpent/dragon.

Trohn, I'd love to see the pics you provided links for, but I don't think the links are working properly (could be user error on my part) - I just get the main page for the Gh Square Interactive Picture Tour.  Can you get some screen captures of those pics or something?

I will try and repost the Ghirdelli Squ images....sorry about the tour site. I have found something previously unmentioned that struck a thought.. On the right hand side, under the pointing finger, is a 'ying/yang' symbol, the representation of the good/bad struggle of the Zen. With that.. check out the Golden Gate park... http://www.inetours.com/Pages/SFNbrhds/ ... arden.html http://www.inetours.com/Pages/SFLndmrkVws/GGP_Map.html If we take the woman to represent the Japanese Tea Garden, then the Rose Table would be the Rose garden to the left and the Apron would be the map of the Golden Gate Park itself, which has already been examined. The arms would represent 'Cross Over Drive' Wonder if we could then match up a verse....

Check out the 'So Pavement' of the Tea Garden and see if it would give one the idea of scales for the dragon....

And check out what is between the Rose garden and the Tea Garden.. http://www.mistersf.com/high/index.html?highggprose.htm A sundial.  This view is not exact (but close) Another side view may be our table leg. Click on the three locations and check our their prximity as represented on the top map.

Trying Image 1 with verse 7 may be right....or may not be. A strong argument could be made for verse #6. There are parts that match up well. This talks about the cruel treatment of the asian immigrants to angel island. And the things you would experience here. Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old Stand and listen to the birds Hear the cool, clear song of water Where law defended Especially this part because this describes the billboard structure and the palm tree with white buildings and sand in the area Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Waits the Fair remuneration White house close at hand. Parts that I have no idea if there is a match or not. Harken to the words: Freedom at the birth of a century Or May 1913 This has a possible Abraham Lincoln connection as These are the Son and Granddaughter of John Wilkes Booth.  The person who assasinated Abraham Lincoln. If you look directly above the rose, the rock appears to be a rendition of Abraham Lincoln as if he is lying down looking up. Edwin and Edwina named after him Not sure about this line Or on the eighth a scene

I have been linking Image 1 with Verse 10... and how about this start of the connection to the Japense Tea Garden.... http://terragalleria.com/pictures-subje ... a9336.html "In the shadow of the Grey Giant Find the arm that Extends over the slender path"

Here is a link for many sundials.... http://www.sundials.org/registry/dials_al_la.htm At least four in Golden gate Park.. none look close enough to the table, esp. not the one in Japanese Tea Garden... have a look.

Nice to see that my C.I.M. has come to the forefront again.  I have always thought that it fit rather nicely with the shape of our lady.  Could we be trying to hard with "a giant step"?  Wouldnt you consider it to be a giant step in your life immigrating to another country?  Just a thought. Now, just when I starting getting comfortable with the tie ins to Angel Island, Trohn leads me right back to the very logical and much discussed GGP. Arrrggh Would have to agree whole heartedly that this P is most definitely SF....lets look at what we have again.  The "theme" for our P is definitely Chinese, Japanese, Asian of some sort.  The Cleveland P was a greek theme and was found in the Greek Cultural Gardens...which leads me to believe that both Angel Island & the Tea Garden of GGP are very likely hiding a casque.  What do we have that would be definite confirmers that we have not identified yet? - 11 Moons - that dang table leg (could the top circular part represent something as well...perhaps a round fountain nearby?) - the rose...there was discussion long ago that there appeared to be a woman or some figure hidden w/in the petals, can anyone blow it up big enough and clear enough to tell? - the window.  still think that a barred window will be very nearby the casque for some reason. Thinking the moons and the table leg will pretty much solidify our site.

Nice to see that my C.I.M. has come to the forefront again.  I have always thought that it fit rather nicely with the shape of our lady.  Could we be trying to hard with "a giant step"?  Wouldnt you consider it to be a giant step in your life immigrating to another country?  Just a thought. Now, just when I starting getting comfortable with the tie ins to Angel Island, Trohn leads me right back to the very logical and much discussed GGP. Arrrggh Would have to agree whole heartedly that this P is most definitely SF....lets look at what we have again.  The "theme" for our P is definitely Chinese, Japanese, Asian of some sort.  The Cleveland P was a greek theme and was found in the Greek Cultural Gardens...which leads me to believe that both Angel Island & the Tea Garden of GGP are very likely hiding a casque.  What do we have that would be definite confirmers that we have not identified yet? - 11 Moons - that dang table leg (could the top circular part represent something as well...perhaps a round fountain nearby?) - the rose...there was discussion long ago that there appeared to be a woman or some figure hidden w/in the petals, can anyone blow it up big enough and clear enough to tell? - the window.  still think that a barred window will be very nearby the casque for some reason. Thinking the moons and the table leg will pretty much solidify our site.

Just a quick comment on the moons w/out anywhere to go with it.  The planet Neptune has 11 moons.  There is a Neptune St in SF but it is nowhere near GGP.  Are there any statues of Neptune or anything else that screams Neptune in the area? Just more food for thought....

I searched pretty hard on the 11 moons. I don't think it's anything in it's literal sense. I will say that the thing that has got me the most excited about Angel Island is the fact that the billboard used to have a firehose on it according to the park superintendant. He said that it was taken off about 10-15 years ago. I have seen it posted... and I agree that the table leg does resemble a fire hose nozzle. It would be a great fit!

I searched pretty hard on the 11 moons. I don't think it's anything in it's literal sense. I will say that the thing that has got me the most excited about Angel Island is the fact that the billboard used to have a firehose on it according to the park superintendant. He said that it was taken off about 10-15 years ago. I have seen it posted... and I agree that the table leg does resemble a fire hose nozzle. It would be a great fit!

Neat idea bout Neptune, Fox, but only 2 of Neptune's moons had been discovered by 1981. As for Chinese links, there is an old Chinese restaurant called "Mandarin" in Ghirardelli Square. "Gh," remember, appears in the image as one would see it in the G. Square sign from the south, not how one would see it from Angel Island. Why would it be written backwards if it was meant to be seen from Angel Island?

Neat idea bout Neptune, Fox, but only 2 of Neptune's moons had been discovered by 1981. As for Chinese links, there is an old Chinese restaurant called "Mandarin" in Ghirardelli Square. "Gh," remember, appears in the image as one would see it in the G. Square sign from the south, not how one would see it from Angel Island. Why would it be written backwards if it was meant to be seen from Angel Island?

forest_blight wrote:: Neat idea bout Neptune, Fox, but only 2 of Neptune's moons had been discovered by 1981. argh Maybe BP knew something the rest of the world didnt...?...

In 1981, there was an observatory within the California Academiy of Sciences which was just North of the music concourse (just North of the Tea Garden) The whole lot of facilities has moved and a new lunar obsevatory area has been laid out in recent years.

Any speculation on why this is on the border under the left hand.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yin_and_yang Does it confirm Chinese (rather than Japanese)? Is it something to see at the site? Hven't see any discussion on it.

Here is an out of the box thought on the moons: the ship (USS Hornet) that was commisioned to pick up the first moon landing (Apollo 11) is retired in San Fran Bay Couldn't find other connections with Apollo 11 and S.F.

I ran across an image that was very close to these moons in an old tourist book for the San Fransisco area, but I thought that the area was too far away from our area of interest.  The radar guidance installations on the hills above Rodeo Valley look like several white moons all in a row (at least 5 that I can count in the picture).  These were built in the 1950s during the nuclear build up, Nike missiles, etc.  May not apply--But the picure is intriguing.  I will try to post it.

Also,  with in GGP there is a rose garden around 10th ave and Presidio blvd, but within the park itself --just off of J ohn F Kennedy Drive.  I have looked at this in Google earth and could not draw any conclusions.  But the rose with its stem in the shape of a "J" made me think about this area.

Trohn wrote:: Yep, I have.  Just do not think that is the location. Photo of the sign: http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-Ghirardelli.htm A closer view, with something interesting in the foreground (maybe too recent an addition) http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-Ghirardelli.htm I agree that this figure is a mirror image of the casque site (where in SF that would be?) I think that with the orientation of 'Alcatraz', the casque site would be to the south. Angel Island may be the mass behind the Alcatraz portion. (Under the many moons) I see the China woman standing on a flat shoreline, a small channel of water, Alcatraz, and then a larger stretch of water, and another rocky island. Here is the view from Aquatic Park: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hist ... c_Park.jpg In your solve, with the Immigration Station, you disregard the serpent/dragon. Hi, a little time without read the BB... With all respect to the point of view of all people working in this hunt years ago, i like to think all possibilities... and immigration monument is a nice theory! so,what if the image is not mirrored? I mean, if you stand in north part of monument (and seeing the monument in alcatraz's direction) you can construct the same perspective in the image (including Ghirardelli's letters mirrored, right?) well, I have nothing to say about serpent/dragon... I'll do my lucubration...

Trohn wrote:: Yep, I have.  Just do not think that is the location. Photo of the sign: http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-Ghirardelli.htm A closer view, with something interesting in the foreground (maybe too recent an addition) http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-Ghirardelli.htm I agree that this figure is a mirror image of the casque site (where in SF that would be?) I think that with the orientation of 'Alcatraz', the casque site would be to the south. Angel Island may be the mass behind the Alcatraz portion. (Under the many moons) I see the China woman standing on a flat shoreline, a small channel of water, Alcatraz, and then a larger stretch of water, and another rocky island. Here is the view from Aquatic Park: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hist ... c_Park.jpg In your solve, with the Immigration Station, you disregard the serpent/dragon. Hi, a little time without read the BB... With all respect to the point of view of all people working in this hunt years ago, i like to think all possibilities... and immigration monument is a nice theory! so,what if the image is not mirrored? I mean, if you stand in north part of monument (and seeing the monument in alcatraz's direction) you can construct the same perspective in the image (including Ghirardelli's letters mirrored, right?) well, I have nothing to say about serpent/dragon... I'll do my lucubration...

Here are some photos from my first 2 visits to Golden Gate Park: (be patient; slow server) http://www.cobbcrew.org/GoldenGate Hopefully I will be adding more every week

Nice photos... Esp. like the one of FSKey.

jimerson - more lion statues, and yet another floral clock! I'd never heard of those things before, and this hunt has introduced me to 3 floral clocks.

I just re-read this thread from the beginning and did not see this mentioned. The photo is one of the lions at the entrance to Sutro Heights.

The old DeYoung museum that was demolished in 1990. I am still trying to find a photo with better details of the windows.

http://www.nps.gov/archive/goga/clho/suhe/index.htm

jimerson wrote:: I just re-read this thread from the beginning and did not see this mentioned. The photo is one of the lions at the entrance to Sutro Heights. not sure I see your lion in the rocks...think maybe I can kind of see what may be his outstretched paw but that is it.  Can anyone work their magic and outline the supposed lion?

Here are some other - not necessarily better - pics of the DeYoung: Nice find. It's quite close to the rose garden.

Looking up the DeYoung Museum I found several pix such as the ones below that appear to show massive renovation....let's hope our casque was not too near the museum. http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/44539265/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/omunene/303403277/ http://www.flickr.com/photos/pengrin/238819626/

The pdf files on this site may be of interest. They show the park history (Golden Gate) with dates and locations of monuments, and much more. Perhaps helpful weeding out the new from the old. http://www.sfgov.org/site/recpark_page.asp?id=30236

After dwelling on this image for a while ( and a bit of research ) I really believe that this cask is in Golden Gate Park! Wow! I know you all are blown away by this idea! Really, I have narrowed it down to 3 areas, but I cannot find any really good pictures of these areas to narrow it down anymore than that. Here are my thoughts ( based on the image, I will add some on the Verse section ) on the 3 areas and why. Forgive me if these areas have already been touched on... I have searched through the posts and could not find anything substantial. P.S. Jimmer, this is for you, since you seem to live in the area -- and could post some pics of the areas in question. I believe that the Dress of the Asian Woman is a map of GG Park. Her Crossed Arms represent "Cross-over Parkway". The Dragon Loop just below her arms represents "Strawberry Hill Island". My first caveat is, based on the Chicago find we know that the author will put many clues to the GENERAL area within the image ( which there are many for GG Park), but narrowing it down can be more difficult. Theory 1: Based on the Cleveland find, there is an overall Greek theme. The Centaur was not an actual clue, except to lead you to a Grecian Garden. I believe the same goes for Image 1 and the Japanese Theme, ergo the Japanese Tea Garden. Theory 2: The Rose and The J the rose makes lead to the Rose Garden (located on JFK Parkway). There are hints in the verse that lead me here- see verse section. (also the Asian woman appears to be pointing her finger in this general vicinity on the map) Theory 3: Shakespeare Garden. This fits alot of the pieces of the puzzle, but not perfectly. 1) The Door at the top of the image, looks alot like the door/window where the bust of Shakespeare is kept. 2) The reverse 'G' and 'h' at the top of the dress, look to be in the same style as the entrance to the Garden. 3) The Outline in the bottom left of the Image (table?) looks similar to the shape of the sun dial in the park. The image has a pocket watch on top of this ?table? as well (to tell us that it is in fact a sun dial?) There are a few other clues that I think can be found in the image, but I would love to hear some feedback.

Unknown: Theory 2: The Rose and The J the rose makes lead to the Rose Garden (located on JFK Parkway). There are hints in the verse that lead me here- see verse section. (also the Asian woman appears to be pointing her finger in this general vicinity on the map) I agree--I have had this same thought a little while ago that the "J" rose does refer to JFK Drive and the rose garden--I think that the recurring conclusion that these casques are in "parks", that the GGP map on the dress is prominent, and the depiction of the "J" rose,  keep the dig site within GGP.  I agree that the Shakespeare Garden, the Rose Garden and the Japanese Tea Garden may need to be really looked into to see if there is a verse that can be tied into this area.  The only problem I had with the Japanese Tea Garden is I felt the Theme for P1 was Chinese (Cathay) not Japanese, but this may be a minor discrepancy.  Still I believe our dig site to lie within GGP itself.

Hello, Some new photos: http://www.cobbcrew.org/GoldenGate/Gold ... 12107.html Check out the map photos. This is from the "pedestal map" at Spreckels lake. These cement pedestals are at various locations throughout the park. The maps currently in the pedestals seem to be from 1990 or newer, since the Kezar stadium area is the same as the 2005 map available at the park for $3. Kezar stadium was rebuilt in 1990. At first I thought the blue color was from the yellow ink fading (trees on my map are green), but there are words on the map that are definitely green. In image 1 the background behind the dragon seems to be very similar to the trees on the map. Also the blue color, although it would be nice to know if the same style was used for the maps in 1981-82. The Botanical Gardens and the Japanese Tea Garden seem to be very popular areas of the park, also very well maintained. It seems to me it would be extremely difficult to obtain permission to dig in these areas.

There does seem to be a JFK profile in the rocks in the pic (unless I am imagining things).

jimers, Could you tell me what Shakespeare quotes are on the wall? The "High Posts" reference in the Verse could refer to Posted Quotes?

Each plaque has about 10 quotes, and I think there are 6 plaques. I will try to get photos of those next time. Did you see the photo of Sutro Tower?

Digging Saturday... Today I received permission to dig in GGP. I have tentatively scheduled noon this Saturday for digging, depends on the weather (supposed to be raining Sat.) Of course everyone here is invited, although I believe its a 50/50 chance the casque is there. More details coming soon.

Can't wait for detail.  Good luck!!

which of the three areas did you decide to dig in?

Good Luck Jimerson....bring another casque to the light of day for us.

2fast4u2c wrote:: which of the three areas did you decide to dig in? You mean kingwilson's 3 areas? None of those. My location is in the northeast area near the Conservatory of Flowers. I found a giant step as someone else said "Look, there's a giant step!", but no giant pole. If anyone is interested in meeting me there, I think the best place would be the northeast entrance of the park, Fulton & Stanyan. Earlier this week I spoke to the person in charge of "Section 1" of the park, which is the northeast. His name is Ramon, and was very interested. He will be there to watch the dig.

best of luck...Find That Casque!

Yes indeed! I hope that all my wild theories about Coit Tower were dead wrong and that you unearth that elusive plexiglass cube. Take pictures!

No luck today It was raining lightly today. Got a few breaks and also some shelter by the trees. I dug under the front hoof. The soil on top was loose, but once I got down to the level of the stone wall, it was very rocky. Took me 3 hours to dig the hole, and I didn't get much lower than the top of the wall. Soil is just too rocky. It would have taken all day to get down 3 feet below the top of that wall. Shovel was only useful for moving dirt and rocks. I had to use a small pickaxe to break up the rocky soil. Lots of sparks flying. After expanding the hole a bit I saw a piece of rebar sticking out  horizontally on the left side of the hole. Dug further in that direction but found nothing. Rebar was about 15" long. The cliff that the horse is on is eroding and falling down on top of the stone wall. It might have been much lower in 1982. I need to get some time to speak with Ramon, who is in charge of that area. He has worked there since 1974, so I hope he has lots of ideas.

thanks for the update jimerson...one question... why did you choose that horse?  what in either the P or V lead you to Mr. Equine?

"Giant step"

I've spent a lot of time trying to catch up to the research done on this image and the pairing of it with the verse you've used, but I think this may be incorrect. I notice that you've dug in GG park a couple of times with no result. Perhaps the verse paired with Image 1 ought to be VErse 9 instead. To wit: The latitude and longitude coordinates are 38N and 122W. These led me right to a very odd place-- not Golden Gate park, as has been proposed--but actually, somewhat close by there--on Suisun Bay--the Point Edith State Waterfowl refuge. Other markers: It's a salt marsh--a tidewater (First chapter written in water) And it's a park (public, accessible) And it contains a bay called "HONKERS BAY" (you can still hear the honking) And it's a waterfowl refuge (geese, ducks) And it's near the Concord Naval weapons station (near men of wind rose--wind rose=compass=sailing; crossed arms of figure, crossed arms=weapons) and it's also within sight of Alcatraz (the jail window in the rock above her head) And the waterway through the place looks pretty much like the dragon curled on her robe And there is a land configuration that is almost identical to the lake pictured in the image at left--in the rocks And it is near the Golden Gate bridge (crossed arms--look vaguely bridge-like) And it's near the Ghost Fleet  (GHost= GH -- the flotilla of ships from WWII in the Pacific---the Japanese --war (figure looks Oriental) And the area is a marsh so it has "tall grass" Shell (gas company nearby) Limestone (base of Siusun bay) Silver (color of Naval ships) Salt (water--salt water marsh) Stars move by day (stars=admirals=Navy) Sails pass by at night (it's on the bay) Years pass (the ghost fleet is mothballed) Anyway, this is what I came up with. Since I can't find any decent pictures of the place, it's hard to figure out if the "bending branches" and the green picket fence are anywhere nearby--A green picket fence is pretty ubiquitous, and so are bending branches...but these may be special. I haven't seen anyone pair these up yet so I thought I'd throw it out there. ck

Actually this was my first dig. Many visits & photos, but first time digging. The thing that convinces me the location is inside GGP is the background behind the dragon in image 1. It looks very much like the tree background on the pedestal maps and on the $3 park maps. The blue color is only on the pedestal maps, the $3 map tree color is green. It seems to be too much detail if the casque is outside the park.

I have reason to be in San Francisco today, in Golden Gate Park as a matter of fact.  While there, I hope to have time to wander around with an eye out for new inspiration to this old, old riddle.  I do believe our biggest hurdle is that the features of the park have changed over time -- the giant totem pole statue being the most obvious example.  I am having my breakfast now and reading this thread from the beginning, amazed that it was started almost three years ago.    Yes, I will take the verses with me today, hoping that something new will fall into place, but I won't be bringing any digging tools.  It's not that kind of trip for me (this time). And Happy Chinese New Year!  The first day of the Year of the Golden Pig would be a most auspicious time to find the final clue to our Chinese themed treasure.

A question for those who have done some digging in San Francisco - how tough is it to get the permission and how long does it take? I'm going to be visiting SF in July for a few days and may take a crack at my pet theories.

Unknown: Salt (water--salpregnant fisher marsh) Why was this phrase in my post changed from salt WATER marsh to sal pregnant fisher marsh? This is odd---can someone explain it? ck

It is the language filter filtering out the work T W A T sorry it does offend some people. Mark

Mark Parry wrote:: It is the language filter filtering out the work T W A T sorry it does offend some people. Mark hah HAH.  Hahahahahahahahahahhha.  What would happen if I typed wimp cat?

Mark Parry wrote:: It is the language filter filtering out the work T W A T sorry it does offend some people. Mark I can see why some might find the word T**t offensive. I cannot understand how the word Salt WATER can be offensive. Though I am aware that computers are only as smart as their programmers. GIGO, as they say. Sheesh. c

Mark Parry wrote:: It is the language filter filtering out the work T W A T sorry it does offend some people. Mark that is hilarious...  and to think, I had already made flight reservations for a quick visit to the Sal Pregnant Fish Marsh.

Too funny, fox.

So T^^@ means "pregnant fish?" ck

Fox, apologies for being so brief earlier. Here is more about how I get to "Mr. Equine". My theory so far... Image 1 is a map on 2 levels. First an aerial representation of Golden Gate Park. Second, a map of the horseshoe pits as viewed facing east. The horseshoe pits are near the northeast corner of the park. Easily accessible by car, you can park right at the stairway. In the image the dragon's tail represents the stairway leading up to the horseshoe pits. The lamp post is on the left side of the stairs. While the outline in the image is not an exact match to the lamp post in the photo, I believe it just indicates it is on the left side. The dragon's head represents the horse's head. Both heads face to the left. The pearl could represent the sun or the moon, as both would rise above the horse (east). The blocks on the sleeves represent the sand pits, and the crossed arms and pointing fingers represent the game of horseshoes, throwing from one side to the other, then back. Directly under the hands are the top of the dragons wings, resembling horseshoes. I believe there are 2 possible locations for the casque: in one of the sand pits or under the horse relief. If it is in the sand pits, I am not sure how to determine which one to dig. I tried to probe in the sand with a 4' long thin metal rod, but I could only get it down about 3". The sand is compacted quite a lot. I have dug at the front hoof of the horse, very rocky soil, perhaps I just didn't dig deep enough. See the horseshoe pits photos here: http://www.cobbcrew.org/GoldenGate/Hors ... html  (slow server) p.s. Scunthorpe

ahh, thanks Jimerson.. what the heck is Sidiothorpe?

fox wrote:: what the heck is Sidiothorpe? Language filter replaced "see you in tea" with idiot

Magesmiley wrote:: A question for those who have done some digging in San Francisco - how tough is it to get the permission and how long does it take? I'm going to be visiting SF in July for a few days and may take a crack at my pet theories. Regarding Golden Gate Park, it depends where in the park you want to dig. Lots of places are neglected, and it is easy to get permission for those areas. Forget about places like Japanese Tea Garden and Botanical Gardens. I called the main offices at McLaren Lodge and was directed to the appropriate person, who called me back the next day. He was very friendly and helpful. The park is divided into several sections for management purposes, and different supervisors for each section.

Digging Saturday, again... Well I am digging one more hole at GGP this Saturday, anyone who wants to join me can meet at the HorseShoe Pits about 12:00 noon.

Strike two Saturday I dug up one of the sand pits. Very easy to dig. The sand extended a bit less than 2 feet deep. At the bottom is very hard rocky clay. I chose the fourth pit back from the horse on the south side, since that is where the finger points on the right side of the image.  I counted the sand pits, there are 31 on each side. I noticed that the fingers on the right side could indicate the number 31; 3 fingers then a gap then 1 finger. Other information of interest is there was recently a volunteer crew that refurbished the pits. I am trying to contact them to ask if they found anything unusual. Also there was a "Horseshoe Club" building that burned down in 1982. I am trying to get some photos.

Keep at it jmerson... Remember the motto "Carpe dig'um" What verse are you using to guide you within GGP?  If there were four pits to choose, the verse would help you select the proper one. I believe (although I am in the minority) that the placement of the jewel in the image is key to the burial site. Good luck on the other coast.

Trohn wrote:: Remember the motto "Carpe dig'um" Trohn wrote:: What verse are you using to guide you within Trohn wrote:: GGP?  If there were four pits to choose, Trohn wrote:: the verse would help you select the proper one. Verse 7 Unfortunately there are 62 pits! IIRC the 2 casques that have been found, the specific location was in the verse. If this is true for verse 7 / image 1, then I believe that "Giant step to where the casque is kept" would indicate under the horse's hoof. But there are 2 hooves that can be considered to be taking a step. I already dug under the front, but perhaps I gave up too soon. The soil is so dense and rocky it seems to me it would have taken hours for someone to dig deep enough to bury the casque.

Wish I could help in this line of thought, but I have firmly linked verse 7 with image 7. (New Orleans) I do believe that GGP is a good spot to search. Can you tell me if there happens to be a staue of Edwin Forrest (or Edwin Booth) somewhere within the confines?

Trohn wrote:: Can you tell me if there happens to be a staue of Edwin Forrest (or Edwin Booth) somewhere within the confines? I do not believe there is any monument or statue of either of those persons. I have not seen one in my visits, nor can I find any reference in any of the documents here: http://www.sfgov.org/site/recpark_page.asp?id=30236

Something like this... just if it fits... http://www.sfmuseum.org/hist/theatres.html

Trohn No offense, and I realize that unless somebody finds a casque it's a pointless argument. but Verse 7 fits San Francisco's GG park much better then NO every line fits a journey down golden Gate parks Kennedy drive. and in picture 1 is a prominnent feature of Kennedy. Also the verse includes 2 puns that unless you are in GGpark arent obvious. The only two things that need to be resolved is Giant Step and Twain's attention lastly the image contains a view of what you see from where the casque is buried - this has yet to be identified in the image but it seems Jimerson is very near to accomplishing this. Jimerson, maybe we should get together and compare notes Im near sacramento Matt Sparks Maltedfalcon

I'm kind of in a bit of a quandary right now. I've got a location in San Francisco where I can match up nearly all of verse 7. I've also gotten a relative who was visiting the city to get some pictures of the area for me as well. I know what the moons in the picture are and I've got a match for the table leg too. So I'm nearly certain that I've got the right area. However... she wasn't looking at the area from the vantage of finding the right spot to dig, just taking some pictures of certain things for me. And as a result, the one thing from verse 7 I'm not 100% positive I've got right is the pole to start from. I have my suspicions, but without actually going to the area, I can't be certain. I'm going to be visiting San Francisco in early July for a couple of days and I'd like to dig then. However, I was wondering if there was anyone here local to San Francisco who might be interested in working on this one with me. Shoot me an email if you're interested please.

Magesmiley, I am planning to visit GGP this weekend. I can get some photos of other locations in SF if you want. Give me some details

Jimerson, check your messages please.

magesmiley  Great! good luck! anything I can do to help let me know Matt Sparks

magesmiley  Great! good luck! anything I can do to help let me know Matt Sparks

Magesmiley wrote:: I 'm kind of in a bit of a quandary right now. I 've got a location in San Francisco where I can match up nearly all of verse 7. I 've also gotten a relative who was visiting the city to get some pictures of the area for me as well. I know what the moons in the picture are and I 've got a match for the table leg too. So I 'm nearly certain that I 've got the right area. However... she wasn't looking at the area from the vantage of finding the right spot to dig, just taking some pictures of certain things for me. And as a result, the one thing from verse 7 I 'm not 100% positive I 've got right is the pole to start from. I have my suspicions, but without actually going to the area, I can't be certain. I 'm going to be visiting San Francisco in early July for a couple of days and I 'd like to dig then. However, I was wondering if there was anyone here local to San Francisco who might be interested in working on this one with me. Shoot me an email if you're interested please. So how did the exploring go?

Magesmiley wrote:: I'm kind of in a bit of a quandary right now. I've got a location in San Francisco where I can match up nearly all of verse 7. I've also gotten a relative who was visiting the city to get some pictures of the area for me as well. I know what the moons in the picture are and I've got a match for the table leg too. So I'm nearly certain that I've got the right area. However... she wasn't looking at the area from the vantage of finding the right spot to dig, just taking some pictures of certain things for me. And as a result, the one thing from verse 7 I'm not 100% positive I've got right is the pole to start from. I have my suspicions, but without actually going to the area, I can't be certain. I'm going to be visiting San Francisco in early July for a couple of days and I'd like to dig then. However, I was wondering if there was anyone here local to San Francisco who might be interested in working on this one with me. Shoot me an email if you're interested please. So how did the exploring go?

hi all, I too am still in favor of Golden Gate Park for this image and I had a few places in mind to check out, but I was wondering if anyone knew where people have previously dug so as to not repeat the same digs.  From this thread I believe the totempole, the horseshoe pits, and the north pole monument have been tried...any other places in GGP?

hi all, I too am still in favor of Golden Gate Park for this image and I had a few places in mind to check out, but I was wondering if anyone knew where people have previously dug so as to not repeat the same digs.  From this thread I believe the totempole, the horseshoe pits, and the north pole monument have been tried...any other places in GGP?

cherbear wrote:: hi all, I too am still in favor of Golden Gate Park for this image and I had a few places in mind to check out, but I was wondering if anyone knew where people have previously dug so as to not repeat the same digs.  From this thread I believe the totempole, the horseshoe pits, and the north pole monument have been tried...any other places in GGP? I dont know of any others where people have actually dug.

cherbear wrote:: hi all, I too am still in favor of Golden Gate Park for this image and I had a few places in mind to check out, but I was wondering if anyone knew where people have previously dug so as to not repeat the same digs.  From this thread I believe the totempole, the horseshoe pits, and the north pole monument have been tried...any other places in GGP? I dont know of any others where people have actually dug.

Hi everyone, I 'm glad my summer vacation is here. Now I can hopefully help out... I was doing some searching and although I need to actually take a trip to SF soon I 'm going through photos and articles online. I 'm also trying to accumulate theories and provide some new twists. That being said... I was analyzing the solved puzzles and here is what I 've noticed they share in common: 1. A State outline in each picture. 2. A representation of a fence/wall near the burial site. 3. A representation of the entrance of the park or specific garden the casque is buried. 4. Appears that at least one lat/long coord is in the image. (maybe other numbers are referencing something else?) Has anybody been able to locate any of these items in Image 1? Also, the verse doesn't always appear to be step 1-10 to find the treasure. Of the 2 solved it looks like 1 had the burial site as the first line and the second was in order from where to start. Sorry, I 'm kind of rambling and if I 've posted too many obvious things let me know

Hi everyone, I'm glad my summer vacation is here. Now I can hopefully help out... I was doing some searching and although I need to actually take a trip to SF soon I'm going through photos and articles online. I'm also trying to accumulate theories and provide some new twists. That being said... I was analyzing the solved puzzles and here is what I've noticed they share in common: 1. A State outline in each picture. 2. A representation of a fence/wall near the burial site. 3. A representation of the entrance of the park or specific garden the casque is buried. 4. Appears that at least one lat/long coord is in the image. (maybe other numbers are referencing something else?) Has anybody been able to locate any of these items in Image 1? Also, the verse doesn't always appear to be step 1-10 to find the treasure. Of the 2 solved it looks like 1 had the burial site as the first line and the second was in order from where to start. Sorry, I'm kind of rambling and if I've posted too many obvious things let me know

For #1, someone once mentioned that the folded arms resemble California's outline. For #4, there's a lot. The numbers 37 (left) and 38 (right) can be found in her hair. There are also 38 squares on her cuffs. The roman numerals I , II, III and I , II, II can be found on her robe. 37, 38, 122, and 123 are the latitudes and longitudes enclosing San Francisco.

For #1, someone once mentioned that the folded arms resemble California's outline. For #4, there's a lot. The numbers 37 (left) and 38 (right) can be found in her hair. There are also 38 squares on her cuffs. The roman numerals I, II, III and I, II, II can be found on her robe. 37, 38, 122, and 123 are the latitudes and longitudes enclosing San Francisco.

forest_blight wrote:: For #1, someone once mentioned that the folded arms resemble California's outline. For #4, there's a lot. The numbers 37 (left) and 38 (right) can be found in her hair. There are also 38 squares on her cuffs. The roman numerals I , II, III and I , II, II can be found on her robe. 37, 38, 122, and 123 are the latitudes and longitudes enclosing San Francisco. Cool, not completely sold on the arms but I can see how they came up with that. Good eye. ...and not to mention the upside down roman numerals for 5, 6, 10 and a 5 or an A on the dress. I have read through the forum and I believe it has been asked about before but no speculation was made. Especially about the symbols barely readable towards the bottom.

forest_blight wrote:: For #1, someone once mentioned that the folded arms resemble California's outline. For #4, there's a lot. The numbers 37 (left) and 38 (right) can be found in her hair. There are also 38 squares on her cuffs. The roman numerals I, II, III and I, II, II can be found on her robe. 37, 38, 122, and 123 are the latitudes and longitudes enclosing San Francisco. Cool, not completely sold on the arms but I can see how they came up with that. Good eye. ...and not to mention the upside down roman numerals for 5, 6, 10 and a 5 or an A on the dress. I have read through the forum and I believe it has been asked about before but no speculation was made. Especially about the symbols barely readable towards the bottom.

I was the one who originally suggested the arms. I 'm not 100% sold on the arms, but I am sold on San Francisco (which makes California being in the picture kind of moot). On another note, has anyone else tried out the street view feature over on google? Its only up for a few cities, but San Francisco is one of them. You can do a kind of walk-around of the city streets at ground level, with the ability to do a panoramic view just about anywhere on the streets. Very cool for looking around the city. http://maps.google.com/help/maps/streetview/index.html

I was the one who originally suggested the arms. I'm not 100% sold on the arms, but I am sold on San Francisco (which makes California being in the picture kind of moot). On another note, has anyone else tried out the street view feature over on google? Its only up for a few cities, but San Francisco is one of them. You can do a kind of walk-around of the city streets at ground level, with the ability to do a panoramic view just about anywhere on the streets. Very cool for looking around the city. http://maps.google.com/help/maps/streetview/index.html

Magesmiley wrote:: I was the one who originally suggested the arms. I'm not 100% sold on the arms, but I am sold on San Francisco (which makes California being in the picture kind of moot). On another note, has anyone else tried out the street view feature over on google? Its only up for a few cities, but San Francisco is one of them. You can do a kind of walk-around of the city streets at ground level, with the ability to do a panoramic view just about anywhere on the streets. Very cool for looking around the city. http://maps.google.com/help/maps/streetview/index.html A friend of mine was telling me about this today. I just did some looking and this could be a very useful tool for images.

Magesmiley wrote:: I was the one who originally suggested the arms. I 'm not 100% sold on the arms, but I am sold on San Francisco (which makes California being in the picture kind of moot). On another note, has anyone else tried out the street view feature over on google? Its only up for a few cities, but San Francisco is one of them. You can do a kind of walk-around of the city streets at ground level, with the ability to do a panoramic view just about anywhere on the streets. Very cool for looking around the city. http://maps.google.com/help/maps/streetview/index.html A friend of mine was telling me about this today. I just did some looking and this could be a very useful tool for images.

Here are the theories turtle123456 and have developed for Picture 1. I have updated The Secret Wiki page with a picture that helps explain these theories. Clock 6 O’clock for the 6th month June. Rose Birth flower for June. Pearl Pearl is June birthstone and jewel for this picture. Multiple squares and rectangles On cuffs and throughout dragon. I have no idea what these may represent. Circle, squares and triangle I have no idea what these symbols at the neckline are supposed to represent. If they weren't somewhat prominent it would be easier for me to ignore them. “G” and “h” First letters of Ghirardelli sign . Letters are the same shape/ font. Backward direction of letters is the same as what can be seen from backside of sign. Window with bars Bars in window on rock island represent Alcatraz Island . Rock cliffs " The Rock ". Alcatraz Island. 37 and 38 Latitudes 122 and 123 Longitudes Drape Shape of Golden Gate Park. Rock face John F. Kennedy Dr. runs length of Golden Gate Park and North side of Japanese Tea Garden. Yin and yang symbol Chinese/ Asian Theme Neckline Shape of a torii . Dragon Japanese theme. There is a Dragon Hedge in the Japanese Tea Garden . Lake Japanese Tea Garden pond . Pond seems very similar in shape. The drawing used for Garden maps or the pond itself may have changed a little of the years. Table leg Leg is the same typical shape as Tea Garden Lanterns . There are many lanterns throughout the Garden. Ten moons Ten Moons on Stone Pagoda. There are five moons on each of opposite sides. Largest moon One large moon represents the Tea Garden’s Drum / Moon Bridge . Typical Moon bridge. Well those are our best guesses. I ’m sure some ideas need more work. Please feel free to poke holes in them. The moons on the Stone Pagoda were one of the last clues we solved. We did not find any close up pictures at first. So, I always thought the circles on the sides were just circular holes. When we finally got a close up picture we were floored when the picture showed ten of the same crescent like moons as in Picture 1.

Here are the theories turtle123456 and have developed for Picture 1. I have updated The Secret Wiki page with a picture that helps explain these theories. Clock 6 O’clock for the 6th month June. Rose Birth flower for June. Pearl Pearl is June birthstone and jewel for this picture. Multiple squares and rectangles On cuffs and throughout dragon. I have no idea what these may represent. Circle, squares and triangle I have no idea what these symbols at the neckline are supposed to represent. If they weren't somewhat prominent it would be easier for me to ignore them. “G” and “h” First letters of Ghirardelli sign . Letters are the same shape/ font. Backward direction of letters is the same as what can be seen from backside of sign. Window with bars Bars in window on rock island represent Alcatraz Island . Rock cliffs " The Rock ". Alcatraz Island. 37 and 38 Latitudes 122 and 123 Longitudes Drape Shape of Golden Gate Park. Rock face John F. Kennedy Dr. runs length of Golden Gate Park and North side of Japanese Tea Garden. Yin and yang symbol Chinese/ Asian Theme Neckline Shape of a torii . Dragon Japanese theme. There is a Dragon Hedge in the Japanese Tea Garden . Lake Japanese Tea Garden pond . Pond seems very similar in shape. The drawing used for Garden maps or the pond itself may have changed a little of the years. Table leg Leg is the same typical shape as Tea Garden Lanterns . There are many lanterns throughout the Garden. Ten moons Ten Moons on Stone Pagoda. There are five moons on each of opposite sides. Largest moon One large moon represents the Tea Garden’s Drum / Moon Bridge . Typical Moon bridge. Well those are our best guesses. I’m sure some ideas need more work. Please feel free to poke holes in them. The moons on the Stone Pagoda were one of the last clues we solved. We did not find any close up pictures at first. So, I always thought the circles on the sides were just circular holes. When we finally got a close up picture we were floored when the picture showed ten of the same crescent like moons as in Picture 1.

Thank you for these - very compelling! But I count 11 moons in P1, not 10. Are you not counting the larges one among the 10?

Thank you for these - very compelling! But I count 11 moons in P1, not 10. Are you not counting the larges one among the 10?

forest_blight wrote:: Thank you for these - very compelling! But I count 11 moons in P1, not 10. Are you not counting the larges one among the 10? This confused us for a long time too. We could not find moon number 11 until one day when I called the Garden's Drum Bridge a moon bridge while talking to my wife. She noticed I called it a moon bridge. She had found the final moon in the Garden Drum Bridge. I can't believe we never put the moon bridge together with the moon in the picture. The largest center moon in the picture became the perfect match for the Garden's Drum/ Moon Bridge. We finally had 11 moons!

forest_blight wrote:: Thank you for these - very compelling! But I count 11 moons in P1, not 10. Are you not counting the larges one among the 10? This confused us for a long time too. We could not find moon number 11 until one day when I called the Garden's Drum Bridge a moon bridge while talking to my wife. She noticed I called it a moon bridge. She had found the final moon in the Garden Drum Bridge. I can't believe we never put the moon bridge together with the moon in the picture. The largest center moon in the picture became the perfect match for the Garden's Drum/ Moon Bridge. We finally had 11 moons!

I find your logic very compelling - I hope you are correct. I looked at The Japanese Tea Garden early after discovering Golden Gate Park in the image. I was not able to find a stone lantern that matched the silohuette under the tabletop  it more matches a poice call box that is of the type that was in the park back then I found one last week and took a picture I will post it later. Tried to associate the moons with the moon bridge but never made the connection. I Like your moon bridge asscociation but the moon bridge doesnt look paddle wheelish to me at all. The face could also be Lincoln which is the street just to the south of GGpark The biggest problems I have with your solutions are: The gate -is wooden and not in a stone wall but mostly I cant imagine BP breaking into the Tea Garden in the middle of the night with the hope that the gardeners would not notice a freshly dug hole and not investigate it. In another verse BP specifically says "get permission to dig out" if that were the case here I would expect him to add that message to the verse with this one too. So what is the terrain like one pace towad the bridge from the stone pagoda? Matt Sparks

I find your logic very compelling - I hope you are correct. I looked at The Japanese Tea Garden early after discovering Golden Gate Park in the image. I was not able to find a stone lantern that matched the silohuette under the tabletop  it more matches a poice call box that is of the type that was in the park back then I found one last week and took a picture I will post it later. Tried to associate the moons with the moon bridge but never made the connection. I Like your moon bridge asscociation but the moon bridge doesnt look paddle wheelish to me at all. The face could also be Lincoln which is the street just to the south of GGpark The biggest problems I have with your solutions are: The gate -is wooden and not in a stone wall but mostly I cant imagine BP breaking into the Tea Garden in the middle of the night with the hope that the gardeners would not notice a freshly dug hole and not investigate it. In another verse BP specifically says "get permission to dig out" if that were the case here I would expect him to add that message to the verse with this one too. So what is the terrain like one pace towad the bridge from the stone pagoda? Matt Sparks

maltedfalcon wrote:: but mostly I cant imagine BP breaking into the Tea Garden in the middle of the night with the hope that the gardeners would not notice a freshly dug hole and not investigate it... ...So what is the terrain like one pace towad the bridge from the stone pagoda? maltedfalcon wrote:: In another verse BP specifically says "get permission to dig out" if that were the case here I would expect him to add that message to the verse with this one too. I have wondered about this too. What if some gardener or park worker came across one of the dig spots the day after BP's dig and then started investigating. The best answer I have come up with is BP avoided detection as much as possible by choosing less obvious spots when convenient. I think this concern for detection would have been top in BP's mind. The terrain from pagoda to bridge has grass and patchy grass with flagstones as stepping-stones for a path. In the Tea Garden case I think BP lifted and set aside one of the flagstones. He dug a hole where the stone was. After he filled the hole replaced the flagstone back on top in the same position it was found. This covered any evidence of digging, no grass was removed. You definitely need permission to dig at the Tea Garden. But even at city parks we still need to get permission. For the verse that BP said "get permission to dig out", there may be special circumstances. It all depends where BP decided to draw the "get permission" line.

maltedfalcon wrote:: but mostly I cant imagine BP breaking into the Tea Garden in the middle of the night with the hope that the gardeners would not notice a freshly dug hole and not investigate it... ...So what is the terrain like one pace towad the bridge from the stone pagoda? maltedfalcon wrote:: In another verse BP specifically says "get permission to dig out" if that were the case here I would expect him to add that message to the verse with this one too. I have wondered about this too. What if some gardener or park worker came across one of the dig spots the day after BP's dig and then started investigating. The best answer I have come up with is BP avoided detection as much as possible by choosing less obvious spots when convenient. I think this concern for detection would have been top in BP's mind. The terrain from pagoda to bridge has grass and patchy grass with flagstones as stepping-stones for a path. In the Tea Garden case I think BP lifted and set aside one of the flagstones. He dug a hole where the stone was. After he filled the hole replaced the flagstone back on top in the same position it was found. This covered any evidence of digging, no grass was removed. You definitely need permission to dig at the Tea Garden. But even at city parks we still need to get permission. For the verse that BP said "get permission to dig out", there may be special circumstances. It all depends where BP decided to draw the "get permission" line.

Here are some recent pictures of the path from the pagoda to the asphalt path to the drum bridge.

There is a large sized stone step at the bottom of the path. Could that stone step be the "Giant Step"?

Where is the giant pole?

soronan the giant step is an excellant marker for the final resting place, the giant pole is at the top of the hill (the treasure pole)

Trohn wrote:: Where is the giant pole? in this scenario the pole is the finial on top of the stone pagoda at the top of the stairs.

yew that would be the correct pole

1st of all...what in the heck is a Moon Viewing Garden? now, I have pretty much always been sold on GGP being this casques resting place...thanks in part (if not whole) to maltedfalcon's ideas.  Now this whole locating of 10 {+1} moons at the Japanese Tea Garden....wow!  What better place to see our P's 11 moons than from the Moon Viewing Garden in the Tea Garden?  If those arent our moons on the pagoda...than maybe we are just supposed to find the ideal spot to view the moons.  Located throughout the Moon Viewing Garden are these: I dont have my book handy but is the base of this "thing" similar to our P's table base?  It is a pedestal of sorts holding a flower...granted it isnt a rose...but.... also... maybe we are trying TOOOOOO hard to find our giant step.  Tie it in w/ our moons and Moon Viewing Garden brings us back to  "That's one small step for (a) man, one giant leap for mankind." now...for those who have tried to reverse engineer the Grant Park find in Chi-town...was that casque buried in a "garden" or "garden area" of Grant Park?  The reason I ask is this:  Sir Egg can confirm that his casque was located in the Greek Cultural Garden in Cleveland which goes quite nicely w/ the Greek images of that P.  Now we have a P predominantly displaying moons so why not the "Moon Viewing Garden"? come on guys, lets find this thing already...

not to step on any chocolate lover's toes out there w/ your Gh... but why can't this be our sweet smelling air? "Garden of Fragrance  In the Garden of Fragrance, plants with aromatic foliage—salvia, rosemary, lemon verbena, lavender, and Grecian laurel—grow in crescent-shaped beds built of stones from a 12th century Spanish monastery. This sheltered area, one of the warmest in the Garden, is a favorite with visitors and birds." look, they even grow in crescent (ah...lovely Luna) shaped beds...

fox - I hope you're not thinking of me when you mentioned chocolate-lover's toes! I'm totally open the idea that the "Gh" is simply meant to tie it to San Francisco, the Ghirardelli sign being a landmark and all. There were a couple of similar things in the Chicago picture - turrets from the Water Tower area that were too far from the X to be site markers. The part in her hair looking like the GG Bridge area must be another city marker rather than a site marker. The Coit Tower reference is something else altogether, though. If that is really a map of that part of the city in the dragon's scales, it's awfully obscure to be a general reference to San Francisco.

I think the font ties it to SF through Gherardelli square's sign But I think the fact that if you lay the map of golden gate park onto the dress. the curve of the neckine and the G h fall directly onto the Great Highway, probably are street clues. In the cleveland picture was a triangle to connect to Euclidian geometry - Euclid ave borders the park as was the Bell and flower, bell flower ave borders the park... Congress is a street referenced in the chicago verse... I think the GH represents the great highway The lincoln/JFK silouhette refers to the lincoln ave and jfk Blvld which effectively surrounds GGpark (including the tea garden)

Giant Step, referring to the moon, one small step for man, one giant step for mankind.  PERFECT. Good one Fox!!!!!!!!!!!

Ok folks, I know this is short notice, but I'm on vacation and away from the net for the most part. However I just got an ok to dig at my site. So if there's anyone who is interested in joining me, I'll be digging at the Aquatic Park in San Francisco (across from Ghiradelli Square) tomorrow, on the 7th of July, probably around 9 or 10 am. I'll lay out my rationale on Monday or Tuesday when I get home.

Good luck to you.  And even if you don't find it you got to spend the day digging for buried treasure, how many people can say that. Have fun, digger7

Good luck Keeping fingers crossed for you Cant wait to here your thinkning!

Hmmm...

Here is my photo album from Aquatic Park, Ghirardelli Square and Hyde Street Pier. http://www.cobbcrew.org/AquaticPark/AquaticPark.html

Jimerson, Which verse are you working from and what is your logic with the verse. I certainly see some similarities in you photo, map and the picture Matt Sparks

MageSmiley was using Verse 7. He should be posting his theory soon.

My apologies for taking so long, I was kind of ill the last few days or so. My adventure digging at the beach by the Aquatic Park was... interesting and one my daughters will surely remember for years. The first day I was in San Francisco I went up to front desk of the museum that had jurisdiction over the park and asked if it would be ok to go out to the beach and dig a hole, describing that I wanted to dig down about 3-3.5 feet right in front of the steps. The guy at the desk and another lady kind of pondered it and then indicated that it would be ok since its a public beach. I jotted his name down and thanked him. The next day my family and I headed down to the beach and I proceeded to dig, drawing the occasional interest of passers by. All went well for awhile, with me getting to the point that I had a hole about 3.5 feet deep (at which point I was hitting hard rocks)  and around 3.5 feet around. At this point a park policeman stopped me and asked what was going on. I explained and indicated that I had inquired yesterday at the museum's front desk and was told that it would be ok. He indictated that he hadn't been informed and had to do some checking. To make a long story short, he then proceeded to do a bunch of checking and it turns out that the guy who told me it was ok didn't have the authority to give me permission to dig. Fortunately I had jotted the guys name down, which helped. So, because I did attempt to go through the proper channels and thought I had an ok from someone in the organization, he didn't give me a ticket, but it ended my digging. I had to fill everything in and give up. The officer was quite nice towards the end and even gave me the name of the proper channel to go through, however as my trip was drawing to a close, I didn't have time to follow up on it. Several onlookers were quite disappointed that my digging was ended too. One guy even started chanting 'let him dig' and a lady was arguing with the police officer (which wasn't helping things). So as to my rationale: I was digging, incidentally, down at the base of a large step by one of the lamp poles by the beach at the Aquatic Park. From the picture: Gh isn't a general SF landmark, its directly visible from the spot I was digging. FURTHERMORE, there is a tree that blocks out all of the letters, except the Gh (I took a picture, but am at work, so I'll have to post it up later). The moons are the balls for the light poles down by the water. The table leg is the ironwork below the balls on the light poles (this is kind of debatable, but look at the outline, I think its pretty close). One of the symbols around the border of the tabard is a profile of one of the speaker towers in the park. The tower at the top is Coit Tower, a well-known SF landmark. There might be more I'm forgetting, but I'm going off of memory here. From verse 7: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Not far away - Ghiradelli's Chocolates was originally located at Jackson Square. And if you've ever been in the place it does indeed smell quite sweet. High posts are three - There is a three-masted sailing ship in the harbor of the Aquatic Park Education and Justice For all to see - The Maritime Museum directly adjacent to the Aquatic Park and Alcatraz out in the harbor Sounds from the sky - There are two elevated speaker towers for people to address crowds from atop of. Near ace is high Running north, but first across - The Golden Gate Bridge, which is also visible from parts of the Park In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention - In addition to the sailing ship, there is a paddlewheel steamship out in the harbor as well. Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept - I worked under the assumption that the pole was one of the light poles down near the beach as they seemed to match the table leg pretty well. In addition a few of them were adjacent to some large steps. So, I worked from the lightpole by the steps down to the beach where one could see Alcatraz, the Golden Gate, the Maritime Museum, one of the Speaker Towers, the three-masted sailing ship, the paddle wheeler, and the Ghiradelli's sign (which as I mentioned had a tree which obstructed all but the Gh). One of the poles met all of the criteria best. And thus ends my expedition. Here's hoping that someone else can pick things up where I left off and get (the proper) permission to dig some more. I'll try to remember to post up some pictures when I'm home. And thanks to Jimerson for doing some preliminary looking for me.

My apologies for taking so long, I was kind of ill the last few days or so. My adventure digging at the beach by the Aquatic Park was... interesting and one my daughters will surely remember for years. The first day I was in San Francisco I went up to front desk of the museum that had jurisdiction over the park and asked if it would be ok to go out to the beach and dig a hole, describing that I wanted to dig down about 3-3.5 feet right in front of the steps. The guy at the desk and another lady kind of pondered it and then indicated that it would be ok since its a public beach. I jotted his name down and thanked him. The next day my family and I headed down to the beach and I proceeded to dig, drawing the occasional interest of passers by. All went well for awhile, with me getting to the point that I had a hole about 3.5 feet deep (at which point I was hitting hard rocks)  and around 3.5 feet around. At this point a park policeman stopped me and asked what was going on. I explained and indicated that I had inquired yesterday at the museum's front desk and was told that it would be ok. He indictated that he hadn't been informed and had to do some checking. To make a long story short, he then proceeded to do a bunch of checking and it turns out that the guy who told me it was ok didn't have the authority to give me permission to dig. Fortunately I had jotted the guys name down, which helped. So, because I did attempt to go through the proper channels and thought I had an ok from someone in the organization, he didn't give me a ticket, but it ended my digging. I had to fill everything in and give up. The officer was quite nice towards the end and even gave me the name of the proper channel to go through, however as my trip was drawing to a close, I didn't have time to follow up on it. Several onlookers were quite disappointed that my digging was ended too. One guy even started chanting 'let him dig' and a lady was arguing with the police officer (which wasn't helping things). So as to my rationale: I was digging, incidentally, down at the base of a large step by one of the lamp poles by the beach at the Aquatic Park. From the picture: Gh isn't a general SF landmark, its directly visible from the spot I was digging. FURTHERMORE, there is a tree that blocks out all of the letters, except the Gh (I took a picture, but am at work, so I'll have to post it up later). The moons are the balls for the light poles down by the water. The table leg is the ironwork below the balls on the light poles (this is kind of debatable, but look at the outline, I think its pretty close). One of the symbols around the border of the tabard is a profile of one of the speaker towers in the park. The tower at the top is Coit Tower, a well-known SF landmark. There might be more I'm forgetting, but I'm going off of memory here. From verse 7: At stone wall's door The air smells sweet Not far away - Ghiradelli's Chocolates was originally located at Jackson Square. And if you've ever been in the place it does indeed smell quite sweet. High posts are three - There is a three-masted sailing ship in the harbor of the Aquatic Park Education and Justice For all to see - The Maritime Museum directly adjacent to the Aquatic Park and Alcatraz out in the harbor Sounds from the sky - There are two elevated speaker towers for people to address crowds from atop of. Near ace is high Running north, but first across - The Golden Gate Bridge, which is also visible from parts of the Park In jewel's direction Is an object Of Twain's attention - In addition to the sailing ship, there is a paddlewheel steamship out in the harbor as well. Giant pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept - I worked under the assumption that the pole was one of the light poles down near the beach as they seemed to match the table leg pretty well. In addition a few of them were adjacent to some large steps. So, I worked from the lightpole by the steps down to the beach where one could see Alcatraz, the Golden Gate, the Maritime Museum, one of the Speaker Towers, the three-masted sailing ship, the paddle wheeler, and the Ghiradelli's sign (which as I mentioned had a tree which obstructed all but the Gh). One of the poles met all of the criteria best. And thus ends my expedition. Here's hoping that someone else can pick things up where I left off and get (the proper) permission to dig some more. I'll try to remember to post up some pictures when I'm home. And thanks to Jimerson for doing some preliminary looking for me.

Thanks for relaying your events. Your logic is good, sorry to see your exploration not fully sated.

I agree, that's sound reasoning. I look forward to seeing your pictures.

not trying to knock your theory, Actually I think the education & Justice fit perfectly The speakers thing is good too. Highway 1 and GG Bridge is nearby A while back someone thought the clock face matched a clock on one of the ships out on the  pier. The Gh is good, Your twain pull is a stretch Im hoping you can re-work this and find a site in the grass or dirt. I think if he meant steps he would have said step. and Giant Pole, tends to me to mean in comparison to another pole. but all the other light poles are the same size.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I was digging, incidentally, down at the base of a large step by one of the lamp poles by the beach at the Aquatic Park. Which one? This one... http://www.cobbcrew.org/AquaticPark/Aqu ... mage4.html Take a "giant" step down from the lamppost to the sand.

Any thoughts on why the image is mirrored?? The 'G' and the 'h' being seen facing the wrong way?

Yes that would definitely fit giant step,

Unknown: In 1954 the San Francisco Maritime Museum purchased Pacific Queen for $25,000. Assisted by donations of cash, materials and labor from the local community, the Museum restored the vessel and returned her original name. The ship was transferred to the National Park Service in 1978, and Balclutha was designated a National Historic Landmark in 1985. Unknown: The vessel was donated to the National Park Service in 1979. She is now berthed at Hyde Street Pier. Still at work here, but quickly... Stonewall's Door I interpreted to be a reference to Stonewall Jackson and going with the next couple of lines, Ghiradelli's original location in Jackson Square seemed a reasonable match. According to the website: So the ship was there. For the paddle wheel steamship, I was looking at the Eppleton Hall (which admitedly is a tug, but looking at it you think paddlewheel steamship, and not tug). Also from the website: I originally came across the towers being referenced as speaker towers on a website. Doing a bit of research, they were indeed originally (and still) used for speaking from atop of to address crowds.They're actually just metal towers with a platform at the top. As far as the giant pole... I took that to be artistic license to make it fit with the other line as we definitely have a giant step here. It is still a good sized pole regardless. Now, I didn't know that they moved the ships around. If the Eppleton Hall moved significantly in the time since the book was written, it could indeed alter the direction. I dug at the base of the steps in the direction of the Eppleton Hall from the lamp post. I think that the lamp post is probably the right one to start from though. As far as the sand shifting, that is definitely possible. One thing I was able to tell going downward was that you could see very distinct layers of the sand - there were black layers every so often. that were fairly consistent around the sides of my hole. I doubt that they'd been disturbed in a long time. One big question is how deep - if it was 3 feet down, I doubt that the sand has shifted that much, although it could have. There is a layer of rocks at about 3.5 feet under that beach too, which I think would help stabilize things somewhat. I am probably not going to be back in the SF area for a good long while (I live near Seattle), so the best I can offer is speculation at this point. And I don't have any idea on why the Gh is mirrored, unless its intended to disguise the letters somewhat.

jimerson wrote:: This one... http://www.cobbcrew.org/AquaticPark/Aqu ... mage4.html Take a "giant" step down from the lamppost to the sand. Actually the one I was digging from was the 4th or 5th from the left in this picture: http://www.cobbcrew.org/AquaticPark/AquaticPark-Pages/Image3.html I'm not 100% sure which due to the angle of the shot. There are steps down to the beach at that point. It also was the only pole that I could see everything on my theory list. Plus it had the partially concealed Ghiradelli sign too, which quite frankly, clinched me selecting it as "the pole". I didn't really think of that ledge in the other picture as a step, but its possible. Likewise stonewall's door could be an actual door in a wall. I do think that our pole is one of the ones down on the beach here. The clues fit too well.

Magesmiley wrote:: - Ghiradelli's Chocolates was originally located at Jackson Square. And if you've ever been in the place it does indeed smell quite sweet. When was that? I thought Ghiradelli's has been in the same spot since 1863 and jackson square is in the barbary coast area on the other side of town. Can you explain the significance of the rose, or the lincoln/JFK silouette in the image? and I would love to see the similarities between the lamp post bottom and the table

Here is the top section of one of the lamp posts that run along the beach and pier, they are all the same. This board seems to have stopped allowing file uploads, here is a link: http://www.cobbcrew.org/AquaticPark/PICT0179.jpg

Magesmiley wrote:: Actually the one I was digging from was the 4th or 5th from the left in this picture: http://www.cobbcrew.org/AquaticPark/AquaticPark-Pages/Image3.html Oh, over there is definitely not a giant step down to the beach. Your giant step is the "giant stairway" or seating area? The Eureka is a paddlewheel I believe.

maltedfalcon wrote:: When was that? I thought Ghiradelli's has been in the same spot since 1863 and jackson square is in the barbary coast area on the other side of town. Can you explain the significance of the rose, or the lincoln/JFK silouette in the image? Yea, Jackson Square is over towards the Embarcadero. If you look at this lamp from Hyde St. Pier upside down, it kinda resembles the rose and stem... http://www.cobbcrew.org/AquaticPark/Aqu ... ge164.html

OK I have been a firm believer the casque was in Golden Gate Park but you now have convinced me I was wrong. It was the lamp posts. BTW the eppington hall was kept on the other side of the pier in the 80s, It would have been 20-50 yards to the right of where it is kept now. That was b4 they had the ferry - BTW as far as I know you have never been able to upload files or images to this board. I always had to use embedded links and the pictures are hosted on my home page.

maltedfalcon wrote:: When was that? I thought Ghiradelli's has been in the same spot since 1863 and jackson square is in the barbary coast area on the other side of town. Can you explain the significance of the rose, or the lincoln/JFK silouette in the image? and I would love to see the similarities between the lamp post bottom and the table Here's a reference for Ghiradelli's. http://www.verlang.com/sfbay0004ref_19thc_002.html#415-31_jackson The chocolate factory was originally on Jackson St (and the building is part of the Jackson Square Historic District) before being moved near Fisherman's Wharf. As far as the rose... I've got no new great ideas. Likewise on the silouette.

my two cents worth after reading this thread, since Twain was mentioned at the end of the verse, which should help pinpoint the exact location: "Mark Twain" (meaning "Mark number two") was a Mississippi River term: the second mark on the line that measured depth signified two fathoms, or twelve feet— twelve feet from something? or the number 2? i didn't recall anyone mentioning that

Here is the solution from "The Solutions" post Turtle and I developed. Image 1 Theme                           China Pearl                           June birthstone Clock                           6:00 for 6th month June Flower                           Rose is birth flower for June 37 and 38             Latitudes 122 and 123             Longitudes "G" and "h"             Ghirardelli Chocolate sign Window with bars             Bars for Alcatraz Rocky Cliffs             The "Rock" Alcatraz Island Clothing drape             Shape of Golden Gate Park Face in rock             John F. Kennedy Yin and Yang symbol Asian theme Neckline                           Shape of a Torii Dragon                           Japanese theme and Dragon Hedge in Tea Garden Lake                           Shape of Japanese Tea Garden pond Table Leg             Tea Garden Lanterns Moons                           10 on pagoda and 1 for "moon" bridge Hair part                           Golden Gate Bridge south shoreline

What evidence do you have that the face outline (if that is what it is) belongs to JFK? Why not Lincoln? Why not millions of other similarly vague profiles? And why would JFK in particular be relevant?

jfk is the drive that borders the tea garden

did anyone ever dig in the moon garden? i love that "Giant step" reference to the moon landing. i did have another idea for the word "Giant" if it didn't have to do with the moon gardens or a long pole, and that is maybe to the Giant of the fair people, under "Economic"...........but it's just a thought bclews did you ever poke around the totem pole at the beach? "Running north, but first across" , i saw where everyone mentioned crossover dr. but didn't see anyone mention the Prayerbook Cross: http://www.mistersf.com/high/index.html?highggprose.htm i think i might have found the window, what do you think? it's a landmark.... click on it to see the bars http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... l%26sa%3DN

You know, I walked right past the Park Emergency Hospital and even took a few photos of that entrance, and did not even consider the bars as possibly relating to the bars on the cliff in the image. I will have to get my photos in order. I have some recent ones from the Cliff House area and the totem pole.

that would be great jimerson, most of the old sites don't work anymore, so i couldn't see all the old pictures. i'm glad you're still around

slappybuns wrote:: bclews did you ever poke around the totem pole at the beach? I was never there.  I found the photo online.

The Moon Garden may be the location. My aunt who has lived in California most of her life said you could not sneak in the Japanees Tea Garden. I do not know wether or not she understood I was talking about the early '80s but if she did then the moon garden may be the place. I will E-mail her and see what she says. How much of the moon garden matches the verse.

scottrocks, haven't done a lot of research yet on the moon garden, i had been leaning more toward aquatic park and  coit tower side of san francisco. i think most people are getting permission from the parks people when they find a certain spot they want to dig.  i found this one picture that i liked because of the water, hoping it represented a river for the Twain connection: http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... l%26sa%3DN

but if that is the window, it would be right there in the Golden Gate Park, (i think jimerson do you think that is the window?  what do you guys think? i guess i didn't really answer your question scottrocks.....but, hey, i can make any verse fit anywhere, lol. and of course i like the moon bridge: http://flickr.com/photos/markluukkonen/1068984910/ with all the moons in the picture

i'm trying to find out more about mark twain, and i remember huckleberry finn and tom sawyer fishing....i know there are lakes at the park....is there by any chance a big fishing pole? and i found out he used to umpire at baseball games, i saw the baseball player there at the park. how about this, there's a huck finn sportcasting place, on highway #1 at half-moon bay, lol

Keep in mind the Moon Viewing Garden is part of the Botanical Gardens, which have always been home to many rare and delicate plants. It is also one of the more popular areas of the park, like the Japanese Tea Garden, and the entire Botanical Garden is closed at night and surounded by fences and gates.

It's also been stated that no casque was buried in a public or private flower bed.

The tea garden and the moon garden solutions would require you either to break and enter,or get permission as the verse does not say Get permission to dig out, as another verse does. I seriously doubt both locations. Where I can picture BP skulking about the bushes at night with a shovel, I cannot picture him breaking and entering...

I agree BP would not have broke in. Big question. Was the Tea Garden and Moon garden walled and gated all around to the point he could not have sneaked in back in 1980. Though it is not likely it could have been an inside job with the people that ran the park. For now I still beleive the Image 1 Verse 7 match. Yes I have read all the new posts by Fox. A good way to help us know if this is the Tea Garden is the spot is to try to get them to let us probe not dig in the area that verse 7 seams to take us too.

I visited the Tea Garden many times in the 70's as I lived in oakland then. and yes it always has had a wall around it since it was created in the 40's  The wall of a japanese garden is there to isolate the space and remove and separate it from the surrounding world. It wouldnt be a japanese garden without one. If the soil is like any other soil in golden gate park, (and Im sure it is) there is about 1 foot of soil over sand. (flower beds probably have deeper soil.) but paths and walkways wouldnt. and while you can stick a probe through the soil as soon as you hit the sand it stops, doesnt matter whether the sand it wet or dry, it just compacts at the tip of the probe and stops it. Probes are useless in GoldenGate park for that reason.

maltedfalcon, did you see this fence around the garden? it's a picket fence like in tom sawyer...seems perfect...but i'm not sure as i'm not there, but i would walk all around this fence http://travel.webshots.com/photo/237190 ... 4002jQcUpy lol, that makes me feel just like tom sawyer in the story, he got others to want to paint the fence...... .

Here is how I see the dragon - with the crossed arms being the bay bridge. The roadway on treasure island is called "Serpentine" Just a working theory.  Nothing solid. But it is very close to Coit Tower and Candlestick Park.(3-M for the youngsters)

In the 1980s treasure island was a working navy base, and off limits to civilians. and being landfill there is pretty much no place to bury anything on the island as it is mostly paved/buildings or lawn. Yerba buena, is almost as bad, while you could drive on the roads there was no place to stop that wasn't coast guard base. Im not sure what you meant, coit tower isn't anywhere near candlestick park...

All of what you say is interesting. I agree that the casque is definitely in the Golden Gate Park. I looked at maps of the park online and they match the design on the kimono matched the park map. The thing of it is all of the other clues in the image seam to point to the Tea Garden and less likely the Moon Garden. Add to this the fact that verse 7 matches the tea garden to the letter. If our thinking is right then there is one of three ways BP could have got in and burried the casque unnoticed. In the order of possibility The first is that he went to a party or other gathering held in the tea garden after hours and snuck off to burry the casque. The second is he got lucky and was in the park in the middle of the night and the park was acessable due to maitnance etc And the third is that this was an inside job. BP knew somebody he trusted that somehow got him into the garden after hours. Regardless of how he may have got in the garden and back out the next question is if it is in the garden how hard would it have been for someone during the day to get into the garden to dig. Were their fees to pay to get in. was their an attendant watching over the place etc ?

I have reorganized my photos by location (mostly). http://www.cobbcrew.org/TheSecret

slappybuns wrote:: maltedfalcon, did you see this fence around the garden? it's a picket fence like in tom sawyer...seems perfect...but i'm not sure as i'm not there, but i would walk all around this fence Yes absolutely you can walk around that fence  and many others just like it. That is the kind of fence that surrounds various areas inside the garden. The fence around the garden is more like a 8 foot wall with a gate building in the front and a service entrance in the back. http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3066248

scottrocks7 wrote:: If our thinking is right then there is one of three ways BP could have got in and burried the casque unnoticed. In the order of possibility The first is that he went to a party or other gathering held in the tea garden after hours and snuck off to burry the casque. The second is he got lucky and was in the park in the middle of the night and the park was acessable due to maitnance etc And the third is that this was an inside job. BP knew somebody he trusted that somehow got him into the garden after hours. Again no casques were buried in public or private gardens.... kind of kills the chances for either the tea garden or moon garden both of which are public gardens... BP doesn't mention needing permission to dig out - which he does for another casque Another observation- in the two solutions that are known, there are no verbal gymnastics. i.e. When he says "as the road curves" he meant over by where the road curves. When he says "seek the sounds of rumble" it meant near a train track... So I suspect when he says At stone wall's door, he means a stone wall not stone's wall or stonewall's when he says aces high, he either means 1 or an actual ace, associating ace with a jack in the game of 21 and then leaping to a big JAX sign is a bit much of a leap for me. So while I think image 1 associates with verse 7  or possibly verse 6, I suspect that when it is solved the solution will also lack verbal gymnastics and be very plain.

three words: greek cultural Garden

fox wrote:: three words: greek cultural Garden While the name is garden, the setting is park like, no wall , no gate, approachable from all sides, similar to the childrens zoo in houston, it was open and not enclosed at the time. Both the moon and tea garden are enclosed gardens with little if any undeveloped areas that arent flower beds or walkways. kind of different but again, As I have said before one theory is as good as the next until a casque is found, Hope you don't mind me playing devil's advocate. If the theory can stand up to questions its a good one...

that is so true MF... I didnt realize that both the Tea and Moon gardens were actual gardens enclosed by fencing.  If that is the case, I also dont think that either would be a chosen location by BP.

that is so true MF... I didnt realize that both the Tea and Moon gardens were actual gardens enclosed by fencing.  If that is the case, I also dont think that either would be a chosen location by BP.

See my post in the Verse 6 section...

in the verse 6 thread forest blight was indicating he didnt see the resemblance of the rectangle on the dress to GG park. he said " I disagree. I don't see any reasonable resemblance. Convince me!" OK but bear with me as I cant insert images now, but I will come back and add them to the thread. First  - you said a rectangle is a rectangle... not true, while the all have 4 90 degee angles and 4 sides, the length and widths  can differ. Go back to high school geometry if you can scale the width or length of a rectangle  to match another rectangle and then the adjacent side equals the adjacent side on the other rectangle, these rectangles are said to be similar.... thats a fancy way of saying if you overlay one rectangle on another and shrink or expand it until one side matches, - if all the other sides match. they are similar.. Try this out using photoshop or a similar programs you can overlay the images and then make the top one semi transparent. The rectangle on the dress matches the outline of GG park. try it.... So right there are 8 points of resemblance 4 corners and 4 matching sides... Next notice the G h at the top of the rectangle is mirrored... So what the heck mirror the rectangle from thr dess image - now the G h reads left to right... look at the road sitting under the G h.... Can you read it?  Yes it says Great Highway Hey notice the loop in the dragon now matches the location and shape of strawberry hill an island in a lake in the park. examine her arms, can you describe them? how about crossed over... what is the name of the main street across the park, yes its cross over drive,  (which also happens to be highway 1) Then there is the silhouette  in the image is it lincoln or JFK - - I am not sure kind of looks like both... anyway the street to the south of the park is lincoln and the road through the center of park is jfk the look under the wing of the dragon matches the location of the polo field.... and there is more. does that mean the location of the casque is in GG park ? abosolutely not.... as also hidden in the image is a map of fort Point at the golden gate. and a street map of the area south of coit tower.... did I convince you?

in the verse 6 thread forest blight was indicating he didnt see the resemblance of the rectangle on the dress to GG park. he said "I disagree. I don't see any reasonable resemblance. Convince me!" OK but bear with me as I cant insert images now, but I will come back and add them to the thread. First  - you said a rectangle is a rectangle... not true, while the all have 4 90 degee angles and 4 sides, the length and widths  can differ. Go back to high school geometry if you can scale the width or length of a rectangle  to match another rectangle and then the adjacent side equals the adjacent side on the other rectangle, these rectangles are said to be similar.... thats a fancy way of saying if you overlay one rectangle on another and shrink or expand it until one side matches, - if all the other sides match. they are similar.. Try this out using photoshop or a similar programs you can overlay the images and then make the top one semi transparent. The rectangle on the dress matches the outline of GG park. try it.... So right there are 8 points of resemblance 4 corners and 4 matching sides... Next notice the G h at the top of the rectangle is mirrored... So what the heck mirror the rectangle from thr dess image - now the G h reads left to right... look at the road sitting under the G h.... Can you read it?  Yes it says Great Highway Hey notice the loop in the dragon now matches the location and shape of strawberry hill an island in a lake in the park. examine her arms, can you describe them? how about crossed over... what is the name of the main street across the park, yes its cross over drive,  (which also happens to be highway 1) Then there is the silhouette  in the image is it lincoln or JFK - -I am not sure kind of looks like both... anyway the street to the south of the park is lincoln and the road through the center of park is jfk the look under the wing of the dragon matches the location of the polo field.... and there is more. does that mean the location of the casque is in GG park ? abosolutely not.... as also hidden in the image is a map of fort Point at the golden gate. and a street map of the area south of coit tower.... did I convince you?

good Maltedfalcon and I think Forest Blight is a she. Under any condition I think we can now safely say the casque is someplace in the Golden Gate area. Though we will need to find St. Louis and New Orleans and still have the "stone walls gate" verse not used before we have enough proof to convince the park authority to let us dig.

good Maltedfalcon and I think Forest Blight is a she. Under any condition I think we can now safely say the casque is someplace in the Golden Gate area. Though we will need to find St. Louis and New Orleans and still have the "stone walls gate" verse not used before we have enough proof to convince the park authority to let us dig.

Unknown: First  - you said a rectangle is a rectangle... not true, while the all have 4 90 degee angles and 4 sides, the length and widths  can differ. Go back to high school geometry if you can scale the width or length of a rectangle  to match another rectangle and then the adjacent side equals the adjacent side on the other rectangle, these rectangles are said to be similar.... thats a fancy way of saying if you overlay one rectangle on another and shrink or expand it until one side matches, - if all the other sides match. they are similar.. Try this out using photoshop or a similar programs you can overlay the images and then make the top one semi transparent. The rectangle on the dress matches the outline of GG park. try it.... So right there are 8 points of resemblance 4 corners and 4 matching sides... Unknown: Next notice the G h at the top of the rectangle is mirrored... So what the heck mirror the rectangle from thr dess image - now the G h reads left to right... look at the road sitting under the G h.... Can you read it?  Yes it says Great Highway Unknown: Hey notice the loop in the dragon now matches the location and shape of strawberry hill an island in a lake in the park. Unknown: examine her arms, can you describe them? how about crossed over... what is the name of the main street across the park, yes its cross over drive,  (which also happens to be highway 1) Unknown: Then there is the silhouette in the image is it lincoln or JFK - -I am not sure kind of looks like both... anyway the street to the south of the park is lincoln and the road through the center of park is jfk Unknown: the look under the wing of the dragon matches the location of the polo field.... Unknown: and there is more. does that mean the location of the casque is in GG park ? abosolutely not.... as also hidden in the image is a map of fort Point at the golden gate. and a street map of the area south of coit tower.... Unknown: did I convince you? Thanks maltedfalcon, but I remain very difficult to convince. Permit me to erode your certainty... I agree that rectangles that are similar (in the geometric sense) would be a point in your favor, but I disagree that these particular rectangles are similar. As I said almost 3 years ago, "As for GG Park, we have the possible outline of one of the lakes, and I'll admit that the rectangular portion of her robe is evocative of GG Park turned on its side, but the dimensions (ratio of width to length) are off by more than you'd expect if one was a representation of the other (ratios 1:4.9 vs. 1:6.2)." That's quite a large difference. With a shape as ubiquitous as a rectangle, for it to represent something important, its dimensions would need to be exactly similar. Simplicity itself. I believe the "Gh" to be a reference to Ghirardelli Square. Not only is the font the same, but unlike most instances of important letters, the Gh of Ghirardelli Square happen to be readable from behind and from very far away. They are giant letters propped up on top of a building. Anyone looking at them from anywhere but the wharf (i.e., most of San Francisco) would see them spelled out backwards in that very font. If we're talking about the same loop, it also looks strikingly like the mis-aligned Telegraph Hill on a street map of northeast San Francisco. I'll give you that, but I don't give the Highway 1 reference any weight. That would be important... if the silhouette is either JFK or Lincoln, which it could be. Can you elaborate? I don't quite see this. Fort Point I'll agree with, and the Coit Tower reference. Not fully. P.S. Scott - Forest Blight is most assuredly a "he."

Unknown: First  - you said a rectangle is a rectangle... not true, while the all have 4 90 degee angles and 4 sides, the length and widths  can differ. Go back to high school geometry if you can scale the width or length of a rectangle  to match another rectangle and then the adjacent side equals the adjacent side on the other rectangle, these rectangles are said to be similar.... thats a fancy way of saying if you overlay one rectangle on another and shrink or expand it until one side matches, - if all the other sides match. they are similar.. Try this out using photoshop or a similar programs you can overlay the images and then make the top one semi transparent. The rectangle on the dress matches the outline of GG park. try it.... So right there are 8 points of resemblance 4 corners and 4 matching sides... Unknown: Next notice the G h at the top of the rectangle is mirrored... So what the heck mirror the rectangle from thr dess image - now the G h reads left to right... look at the road sitting under the G h.... Can you read it?  Yes it says Great Highway Unknown: Hey notice the loop in the dragon now matches the location and shape of strawberry hill an island in a lake in the park. Unknown: examine her arms, can you describe them? how about crossed over... what is the name of the main street across the park, yes its cross over drive,  (which also happens to be highway 1) Unknown: Then there is the silhouette in the image is it lincoln or JFK - - I am not sure kind of looks like both... anyway the street to the south of the park is lincoln and the road through the center of park is jfk Unknown: the look under the wing of the dragon matches the location of the polo field.... Unknown: and there is more. does that mean the location of the casque is in GG park ? abosolutely not.... as also hidden in the image is a map of fort Point at the golden gate. and a street map of the area south of coit tower.... Unknown: did I convince you? Thanks maltedfalcon, but I remain very difficult to convince. Permit me to erode your certainty... I agree that rectangles that are similar (in the geometric sense) would be a point in your favor, but I disagree that these particular rectangles are similar. As I said almost 3 years ago, "As for GG Park, we have the possible outline of one of the lakes, and I 'll admit that the rectangular portion of her robe is evocative of GG Park turned on its side, but the dimensions (ratio of width to length) are off by more than you'd expect if one was a representation of the other (ratios 1:4.9 vs. 1:6.2)." That's quite a large difference. With a shape as ubiquitous as a rectangle, for it to represent something important, its dimensions would need to be exactly similar. Simplicity itself. I believe the "Gh" to be a reference to Ghirardelli Square. Not only is the font the same, but unlike most instances of important letters, the Gh of Ghirardelli Square happen to be readable from behind and from very far away. They are giant letters propped up on top of a building. Anyone looking at them from anywhere but the wharf ( i .e., most of San Francisco) would see them spelled out backwards in that very font. If we're talking about the same loop, it also looks strikingly like the mis-aligned Telegraph Hill on a street map of northeast San Francisco. I 'll give you that, but I don't give the Highway 1 reference any weight. That would be important... if the silhouette is either JFK or Lincoln, which it could be. Can you elaborate? I don't quite see this. Fort Point I 'll agree with, and the Coit Tower reference. Not fully. P.S. Scott - Forest Blight is most assuredly a "he."

Unless you drank from the Fountain of youth FB.  Just ask Stercox! See what happened to her.

Unless you drank from the Fountain of youth FB.  Just ask Stercox! See what happened to her.

Well I think the ratio is not exact but close enough.

Well I think the ratio is not exact but close enough.

Actually if you mirror the image of the dress it lines up almost exactly. look at the Right hand lower side of the rectangle on the dress you will notice it is not exactly square-  it flares out a little. amazingly when you mirror the dress the flare matches exactly the angle of the park map... (not close, exact) Now remember there was an official park map that  was given out at kiosks and information desks through the park in the 80s and early 90s,  The last time I went the park map had been modernized - made much more iconic. bigger lines, easier to read fonts etc... It was that original map that lined up perfectly with the outline on the dress (when mirrored.) I would be willing to bet BP took one of those maps home with him... It was also that map, which had the image of the lake, (the south end of North lake, from that map matched the strange blue shape in image 1...) unfortunately North lake has been remodeled (drained and bulldozed) several times since the late 80s and the current shape is a bit different. (one of the legs is bent at a different angle now) Lastly FB I want to thank you, you made me notice something today... I had always wondered why the crossed over arms didn't line up with cross over drive. So I was messing about with it in photo shop and i cut and dragged the arms down to line up on crossover drive, (when I did the pearl in the image was in the piece I cut and pasted.... Once the arms are  lined up with crossover drive. guess where the pearl ended up? on top of the location of the Goddess of the Forest Totem Pole.... weird huh... Anyway I would love to be 100% completely wrong... because if I 'm right, the casque was destroyed when an irrigation line was run through about 10 years ago exactly 1 yard in front of the totem poles base... There are some loose ends... but I dont feel there is any question the rectangle on the dress represents GG park,  As always that could simply mean San Francisco, not GG park, the key is Which verse...

Actually if you mirror the image of the dress it lines up almost exactly. look at the Right hand lower side of the rectangle on the dress you will notice it is not exactly square-  it flares out a little. amazingly when you mirror the dress the flare matches exactly the angle of the park map... (not close, exact) Now remember there was an official park map that  was given out at kiosks and information desks through the park in the 80s and early 90s,  The last time I went the park map had been modernized - made much more iconic. bigger lines, easier to read fonts etc... It was that original map that lined up perfectly with the outline on the dress (when mirrored.) I would be willing to bet BP took one of those maps home with him... It was also that map, which had the image of the lake, (the south end of North lake, from that map matched the strange blue shape in image 1...) unfortunately North lake has been remodeled (drained and bulldozed) several times since the late 80s and the current shape is a bit different. (one of the legs is bent at a different angle now) Lastly FB I want to thank you, you made me notice something today... I had always wondered why the crossed over arms didn't line up with cross over drive. So I was messing about with it in photo shop and i cut and dragged the arms down to line up on crossover drive, (when I did the pearl in the image was in the piece I cut and pasted.... Once the arms are  lined up with crossover drive. guess where the pearl ended up? on top of the location of the Goddess of the Forest Totem Pole.... weird huh... Anyway I would love to be 100% completely wrong... because if I'm right, the casque was destroyed when an irrigation line was run through about 10 years ago exactly 1 yard in front of the totem poles base... There are some loose ends... but I dont feel there is any question the rectangle on the dress represents GG park,  As always that could simply mean San Francisco, not GG park, the key is Which verse...

Well, I stand corrected. You may be onto something after all.

Well, I stand corrected. You may be onto something after all.

I've thought for a very long time that the casque was in front of theGoddess of the Forest Totem Pole. wilhouse

I 've thought for a very long time that the casque was in front of theGoddess of the Forest Totem Pole. wilhouse

The casque would be found when they put the irigation line in. It is possible that the casque was found then and it was not knowen what they had. This idea should be looked into also if one of the verses seenms to fit the totem pole area it may be worth pokeing around the totem pole area. If the construction people did not find the casque and pokeing around the totem poll comes up empty then the possibility that the Tea Garden is the location greatly increases. The casque could be behind or to the side of the totem poll After we eliminate the totem poll as the possible location we should try again to dig in the tea garden. If the tea garden is the location then it is possible that the casque is under a steping stone. I still think the Japanese theam of the image was to eliminate any dbout about the tea garden being the location. It is also possible the iron gate door in the image may not be Alcatraz but rather the emtry to the tea garden. The way I interpet the image is this way. The lattitude and longitude are in the hair the G and H anre the city ID the crossed arms are a representation of Guardian of the Forest Totem Poll to ID the park. The kimono pateren is a map of GGP and the iron gate door is the entry to the tea garden. The door could be the image to verse connecter "stone walls gate" a torch like thoes in the tea garden forms the base of the table and the Japanese theam of the picture was to end any dbout along the you could not get in lines. Also if any place in GGP had guest books it would be interesting to see if BP signed. This would be somewhat of a search but he may have signed the tea garden guest book when he went in to get pictures for JJp to use in the image. Just a guess.

The casque would be found when they put the irigation line in. It is possible that the casque was found then and it was not knowen what they had. This idea should be looked into also if one of the verses seenms to fit the totem pole area it may be worth pokeing around the totem pole area. If the construction people did not find the casque and pokeing around the totem poll comes up empty then the possibility that the Tea Garden is the location greatly increases. The casque could be behind or to the side of the totem poll After we eliminate the totem poll as the possible location we should try again to dig in the tea garden. If the tea garden is the location then it is possible that the casque is under a steping stone. I still think the Japanese theam of the image was to eliminate any dbout about the tea garden being the location. It is also possible the iron gate door in the image may not be Alcatraz but rather the emtry to the tea garden. The way I interpet the image is this way. The lattitude and longitude are in the hair the G and H anre the city ID the crossed arms are a representation of Guardian of the Forest Totem Poll to ID the park. The kimono pateren is a map of GGP and the iron gate door is the entry to the tea garden. The door could be the image to verse connecter "stone walls gate" a torch like thoes in the tea garden forms the base of the table and the Japanese theam of the picture was to end any dbout along the you could not get in lines. Also if any place in GGP had guest books it would be interesting to see if BP signed. This would be somewhat of a search but he may have signed the tea garden guest book when he went in to get pictures for JJp to use in the image. Just a guess.

scottrocks7 wrote:: The casque would be found when they put the irrigation line in. The casque could be behind or to the side of the totem poll After we eliminate the totem poll as the possible location we should try again to dig in the tea garden. If the tea garden is the location then it is possible that the casque is under a stepping stone. I still think the Japanese theme of the image was to eliminate any about about the tea garden being the location. m I spoke with the people who put in the irrigation line. They used a ditch digger that had a 10 foot digging wheel on it. It can easily dig through asphalt and roadway. It has no trouble digging through loose gravel or sand, It' pulverizes rocks the size of basketballs. If it had gone through the area of the casque, the casque would have been turned into small pieces the size of quarters and dimes...  If anyone noticed it coming out of the dirt chute, it would have looked like trash... The dirt is displaced between 5 and 15 feet laterally and put into a pile that runs along side the trench. when the pipe is laid the dirt is then just pushed back into the hole. This means that if some one wanted to, they could dig up a 30 foot section of pipe and sift the dirt for the pieces... The workers could not remember which way they were running the digger, East or west... FYI I have dug entirely around the perimeter of the base out to 5 feet  (thats a lot of digging) When you dig in the most likely place you find an irrigation pipe... The theme of the image is Chinese ,not Japanese, the dress and dragon is Chinese style and the woman has Chinese features.  The wall and gate that surround the tea garden is wooden not stone, and didn't  BP say  he didnt bury any casques in gardens?

scottrocks7 wrote:: The casque would be found when they put the irrigation line in. The casque could be behind or to the side of the totem poll After we eliminate the totem poll as the possible location we should try again to dig in the tea garden. If the tea garden is the location then it is possible that the casque is under a stepping stone. I still think the Japanese theme of the image was to eliminate any about about the tea garden being the location. m I spoke with the people who put in the irrigation line. They used a ditch digger that had a 10 foot digging wheel on it. It can easily dig through asphalt and roadway. It has no trouble digging through loose gravel or sand, It' pulverizes rocks the size of basketballs. If it had gone through the area of the casque, the casque would have been turned into small pieces the size of quarters and dimes...  If anyone noticed it coming out of the dirt chute, it would have looked like trash... The dirt is displaced between 5 and 15 feet laterally and put into a pile that runs along side the trench. when the pipe is laid the dirt is then just pushed back into the hole. This means that if some one wanted to, they could dig up a 30 foot section of pipe and sift the dirt for the pieces... The workers could not remember which way they were running the digger, East or west... FYI I have dug entirely around the perimeter of the base out to 5 feet  (thats a lot of digging) When you dig in the most likely place you find an irrigation pipe... The theme of the image is Chinese ,not Japanese, the dress and dragon is Chinese style and the woman has Chinese features.  The wall and gate that surround the tea garden is wooden not stone, and didn't  BP say  he didnt bury any casques in gardens?

Unknown: and didn't  BP say  he didnt bury any casques in gardens? Specifically, he said he did not bury anything in a public or private flower bed.

lest we forget the greek cultural GARDENS...

Exactly my point, Fox (this agreement thing is getting to be a habit, eh?).  One may bury something in a "garden" without disturbing the actual flower beds. As was done in Cleveland.

if he could bury it in a cultural garden he could bury it in a children's zoo!! wilhouse

Just a comparison  between the Image 1 clock and a clock from the Eureka...a paddle steamboat anchored in the Aquatic Park, SF. (object of Twain's attention in verse 7.) There is more than a little resemblance. I posted this on the Verse 7 thread, too. AP

Another observation from Aquatic Park...There are several old lampposts around the beach sidewalk that have a simiilarity to the table leg of Image 1. AP

Here is Aquatic Park's Giant Pole...from which you could take a giant step in the direction of Twain's-object-of-attention... (the Eureka...the paddle boat.) AP

ooh, that looks promising...except it hurts my N.O. theory

Here is another similarity... There are light posts all around the block of Ghirardelli Square that look like moon-globes...But I cannot be sure of their age. AP

The very end curl of the rose stem on image 1 looks like the same shape as the breakwater around Aquatic Park. AP

animal painter wrote:: Here is another similarity... There are light posts all around the block of Ghirardelli Square that look like moon-globes...But I cannot be sure of their age. AP Thumbs up for this one AP.

Just to show the use of the same font in Image 1 as the Ghirardelli Square sign...seen backwards from North Point St....headed toward Aquatic Park. AP

Ok, I cant seem to get the printscreen to work for me either.  I can get it printed and pasted and copied but I cant get the final into the reply here... so... http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&um=1& ... 1&ct=image Use this link to an address right across Beach St from the Aquatic center and just down the street from the 'Poles' .   Click on Street View and then click on the map street next to the orange icon...this will bring you down to the street.  The street address will be displayed in upper left corner of window.  Go to 868 Beach St where you will see 2 of the 'moon' lamps that AP found.  Yes, they appear to be all up and down the street.  Once at 868 Beach St, pan south and up slightly and you will see a portion of the Ghirardelli Sq sign between the 2 lamps.  One problem I see is that the Gh, from this angle, is forward.  Is there another park on the other side of the sign so that our Gh is reversed?  Just a thought. And, if you continue east a little bit down the street, you will come to those odd 'Poles' which look less and less like a Pole from street level as Falcon stated.  hmmmm

Fox, You can see the the Ghirardelli sign backwards from North Point St. as you are walking down Larkin St. (That is where I "took the picture" a few posts back from here.) AP

Go to 2988 Larkin St., and look northwest and up.  The Gh is most definitely backwards.

I have found a positive link between this area (Gh Sqaure/Aquatic Park) and verse 6, which I have believed to be SF. http://soccer.org/NR/rdonlyres/BA4558DA ... ctions.pdf The USS Potomac (historic National Attraction) is called FDR's " Floating White House"

unfortunately during the 80s the uss potomac was in drydock in sausilito and then towed to treasure island where it sank, it was restored and not moved to sf until about 1995

its in oakland now, isnt it?

maltedfalcon wrote:: its in oakland now, isnt it? So it would have been at Treasure Island at the time BP was burying the casques. (just like the literary reference from the first line) World War II Changes Use of the Potomac On Monday, August 4, 1941, four months before Japan’s attack on Pearl Harbor, FDR boarded the USS Potomac ostensibly for a fishing trip and a visit to Martha’s Vineyard. The President, however, was secretly transferred to the heavy cruiser USS Augusta on Tuesday morning the 5th to travel to Newfoundland where he would meet with British Prime Minister Winston Churchill – their first meeting as Heads of State. During this top-secret rendezvous, the two world leaders forged the principles of the Atlantic Charter, which formed the Allied partnership during World War II and what Roosevelt called the "United Nations", to plan the post-war peace. With the United States’ direct involvement in the war at the end of 1941, the president’s recreational use of the USS Potomac came to an end. After FDR’s death in April 1945, the Potomac began a long and ignominious decline from her former role in world affairs. After many adventures and many owners – including Elvis Presley at one point – she was seized in 1980 in San Francisco by U.S. Customs for her role as a front for drug smugglers. Towed to Treasure Island, the proud vessel’s hull was pierced one night and she sank. The USS Potomac Resurfaces – Back to Her Old Glory Refloated by the Navy two weeks later, she was sold to the Port of Oakland for just $15,000. The Port of Oakland spearheaded a cooperative effort with organized labor, maritime corporations and dedicated volunteers to complete a $5 million restoration. Opened to the public in 1995, the Association for the Preservation of the Presidential Yacht Potomac now operates this National Historic Landmark as an active memorial to Franklin Delano Roosevelt and the momentous times through which he led our nation.

You are absolutely correct. TI and a white house...

I have been looking all day at Treasure Island. And I've found some really interesting things. http://www.sfmuseum.net/hist6/ti-lights.html (read this whole article!) You'll see an arc of lights? Citadel in the night? Wind-swept halls? Hmmm.....funny thing is, I'd never have suspected this verse for this location---but---the latitude and longitude of Treasure island are EXACT to the image: 37, 122, and when I started reading about it, some things just began to click together. The island is man-made--weight and roots together saved the site? The bay area has fierce winds--and on Treasure Island, they are definitely a problem at times. The citadel-like buildings and the wind-swept halls of the 1939 Fair are well-documented. The "wingless bird ascended"? maybe The Sun Tower, which has been described as an "art-deco rocket". Born of ancient dreams of flight? well, there's plenty of aviation stuff there--including an aviation museum, a Naval Air Station, and the Fair had a bunch of exhibits of airplanes, flight-associated things....and the airport is nearby. White stone? All over the place. And so, oddly enough, is MICA! It was mixed in with the stucco on the Fair buildings to make them "glimmer" in the night lights!" This is the only other place I've seen mica mentioned. (another linking item with these verses maybe?) I'm not nearly finished trying to see if there are any other tie-ins with this verse--but I'm working on it. Who knows--maybe THIS is the place. Wouldn't it make a ton of sense? "Treasure" Island? (Like, uh, DUH...) And...the obvious association with other verses, and other references: including "Treasure Island" by Stevenson? AND...there was a "Mark Twain House" at the World's Fair...and a White House nearby....eerily enough, it's almost like this one image sparks all the other verses--in smaller ways. Which, if you read through the intro in the book, ALSO makes sense--because the Pearl--the Chinese treasure--is the one that is mentioned last. It's also diametrically opposed to New York, where BP lived---there is a wonderful synchronicity and symmetry here! I don't know if it's on purpose or if it's just a huge coincidence, but why not? If there's a "lane 222" there, I'm convinced.

not quite a lane technically but interesting nonetheless http://www.noehill.com/sf/landmarks/sf222.asp

shecrab wrote:: I have been looking all day at Treasure Island. And I've found some really interesting things. The only problem is that until recently, the entirety of treasure island has been a military base with a 24 hour guard at the front gate and no admittance without a reason for entry. BP would not have been able to set foot on Treasure Island any time during the 1980s nor would any treasure hunters been allowed there either. Yerba Buena island is also a coast guard base, and there is not any place to stop your car and go exploring... So while there has always been some great matches for TI as a casque resting place it is an impossibility. The only thing Imagineable is a location that somehow has a view of TI from the location....

maltedfalcon wrote:: The only problem is that until recently, the entirety of treasure island has been a military base with a 24 hour guard at the front gate and no admittance without a reason for entry. BP would not have been able to set foot on Treasure Island any time during the 1980s nor would any treasure hunters been allowed there either. Yerba Buena island is also a coast guard base, and there is not any place to stop your car and go exploring... So while there has always been some great matches for TI as a casque resting place it is an impossibility. The only thing Imagineable is a location that somehow has a view of TI from the location.... Not true. Only PART of TI was a military base. The rest was a tourist attraction and had been since 1940, since the fair. My ex-husband was stationed there in the 70's and we had friends who lived there. You could get onto the island with no trouble at all. Remember, the base security in the 80's was very open. I should say this however---I don't really think it's buried ON the island, after my research last night. There just isn't much open land. And no trees. There may not be any topsoil!

Hmmm, I lived in Oakland in from 1969 to 1978 so I can only speak for those years. I lived on Oak Knoll Navy Base and we often went to TI to shop at the base commissary. The Gate to the base was just accross the spit that connected the TI to Yerba Buena. The 1st building on the base was the one used for the airport in an Indiana Jones movie. That was base administration and it was behind the gate. I dont remember any place accessible to tourists at all during that time maybe it was changed during the 80s.  what exactly was accesible to tourists?

I asked my older brother what he remembered, the exception would be people were allowed access to the museum in building 1 but thats as far as they could go.

The museum. That is what I was referring to.

shecrab wrote:: The museum. That is what I was referring to. "Seen here by eyes of old" The road that runs in front of the museum:  Avenue of the Palms

nobody liked my 222 = Golden Gate Bridge?

Well, sure we did! I also liked Room 222 with Karen Valentine. Actually, I was wondering where that number came from, exactly? I mean, does SF have all of its landmarks numbered?