Quest4Treasure Archives

Great info.  I have a few questions though. First, you stated that the burial site should be a place where one can see for Sumpter.  What is this suggestion based on?  I couldn't really figure it out from you're post, but that's probably my fault. Second, thanks for pointing out that the burial site is under the tree, not the rock.  I completely missed that.  I guess I couldn't see the forest for the tree... Next, Where did you get your information about the protection of palmetto trees?  Were they protected in 1982?  If so, that could be the basis of the necessity of permission at this site. Finally, the tree in the picture at the NPS website definitely looks promising, but I was told by the ranger at Ft. Moultrie that there was no way I would be allowed to dig on NPS property.  He was a nice enough guy, but it sounded like a strict no-digging policy. Thanks for the speedy response. EDIT:  Has anyone tried to get in touch with the artist of the images?  I am at a loss for his name, but the previous process of confirming the location with BP is definitely preferable to just running out and digging.  Do you think he'd be willing to confirm a location if he could?

Here is a novel idea.... The first time I was at Fort Moultrie, a friend and I stumbled upon it. We enjoyed reading the battle history from the Revolution and the Civil War, but we enjoyed even more sitting on the large granite (SC's state rock) stones along the coast and watching the sunset. This is a great spot for watching ships come into harbor in the evening, watching gulls and dolphins. During that first visit, there was no one there that evening, and we sat on the rocks in silence, listened to the waves pound, felt the salt blowing on our faces, and watched the sails in the sunset. How romantic! The second time I went to the fort, it was harder to find. You have to follow the signs to Sullivan's Island, and then look for signs to Fort Moultrie. That evening, during July, the fort was more crowded. Several other couples were also on the rocks along the coast. But the waves are so loud that you can't hear them talking. It was neat, all of us sitting on the rocks and relaxing. And that evening we saw dolphins. Could our "wingless bird acsended" be a dolphin?! Answers:  The Palmetto is the state tree of south carolina. Found the protection clauses in the park system rules and regs. If B.P. stated you need permission back in 1982, could be virtually impossible these days. My Fort Sumpter visual is based upon two things: "Citadel in the night" and The linking image to this verse. The things in the image should be visable, within proper perspective, when you are digging.

A few pages back, someone mentioned how most of the image is a map.  Following his reasoning, the Pearman bridge, Station 22 1/2, and Fort Sumter all fall in proper proportions on a real map.  I believe that the gem is somewhat of an 'X' on the map.  It's right where Fort Moutlrie is. If the lone tree is south of the fort instead of the lighthouse, Fort Sumter would definitely be visable.  I don't know about that lion though... Has anyone ever made a proposition on what exactly the map on the lion's head is?  I've tried to match it up with many parts of Sullivan's Island's geography, but to no avail.

The lion MAY simply represent Charleston in general, but my theory is that the larger the piece of the image, the closer to the burial site (so perhaps the largest items in the image are the most insignificant to the whole area) The map idea is a good idea to keep in mind. You must use the verse and the image simultaneously as one confirms the other. You can 'find' the spot using only the image or only the verse, but you lose the tools to check yourself. The butterfly wings have double sets of rings that match up to the cannons of Fort Moutrie as do the wings themselves as the whole shape of the Fort. Being South of the Fort, near the shore, you would have the proper perspective of the cannons that you need (just as they fired on the British ships) I have found a strange coincindence for the remaining phrasing: "Born of Ancient Dreams of Flight" One of the inspirations of Sigorsky (besides DaVinci) was Jules Verne. As he was one of the original sci-fi wrtiers, his writings were the inspiration for many to persue flight. Jules Verne wrote a story (Blockade Runners) that details a boatload of cotton trying to escape the southern americas and travel to europe to sell it.  The blockade they were running was during the Civil War.  The fictional story details the ship: The Dolphin leaving Charleston Harbor and details slipping by Fort Moutrie. It is know that B.P. used references from literature to hide clues.  This may be one of them, albeit a far fetched connection. Getting back to the question of the image, the Charleston coastline is littered with lions heads on posts. I have found nothing to indicate that Sullivan's Island has the same motifs, but if you are south of the Fort and are deciding upon trees - a lion's image would be certainly good omen.

I agree that the Ft. Moultrie grounds are more promising than the lighthouse. But I didn't notice any white stones when I was there. The beach area is a different matter. There's just no telling where trees were in 1981. That part of the coast is battered by hurricanes regularly. I also agree with Trohn that ancient dreams of flight is evocative of either helicopters or the underground railroad, but wingless bird ascended is consistent only with the former. As to getting in touch with the artist (John Jude Palencar), Egbert might know. Palencar was interviewed for the Cleveland Plain Dealer article on the 2004 find. Trohn: dolphins as "wingless birds ascended" are unlikely. On what basis? As for seeking permission... I got there after Ft. Moultrie was closed for the day, and there was NO ONE official around, anywhere. Just beachcombers. Finally, the closest match we've found to the lion's head in Charleston is King St. ("king of the jungle"), which is a major street terminating at White Point Gardens in Charleston proper. As for lions appearing on posts and wrought-ironwork, I've heard about this a few times, but when I was there I didn't see a single representation of a lion. Maybe I wasn't looking hard enough.

lobster411 wrote:: I don't know why this would be mentioned in this verse but not the others.  If the second location is correct, it could refer to the tide.  12 paces would put one very close to the shore.  Perhaps even close enough that one would only be able to dig with the tide down. Next week, I will be going to Charleston to check out both locations and maybe even dig.  Any information or advice you could give before then would be very helpful. I can't imagine him burying anything anywhere on a beach.  I search periodically for gold and silver coins from the 1715 fleet on the East Coast of Florida.  I know that an item on a beach can become buried under several feet of sand or washed out to sea in just a couple of days or shorter.  Plus, if you have ever tried digging past 6 inches or so in sand near the oceans edge, you will find it is near impossible as you hit water and the hole keeps filling back up with sand.  Anything buried near a coast would almost HAVE to be behind the dune line due to these reasons, or it would be lost in no time.

I think my approach to finding the lion will be to knock on doors in the area and ask, "Have you seen this lion?" I'm serious.  If there is an actual lion image in the area, I think would be a very effective approach.

Unknown: I think my approach to finding the lion will be to knock on doors in the area and ask, "Have you seen this lion?" That is logical, but be prepared to be considered crazy by the locals. We got many weird looks while digging in Milwaukee.

forest_blight wrote:: be prepared to be considered crazy by the locals. We got many weird looks while digging in Milwaukee. Crazy is fine. By the way, where can I find information about the Milwaukee dig?  I checked the appropriate image and verse threads, but can not seem to find anything. Did you get some sort of digging permit or permission, or did you just go out and dig?

At one time there was a lion in a park across from The Citadel.  I mentioned in an earlier post.

There is also a Vietnam era helicopter on the Parade Grounds of The Citadel. That's so far away from Ft. Moultrie though....

Unknown: By the way, where can I find information about the Milwaukee dig?  I checked the appropriate image and verse threads, but can not seem to find anything. The Verse 8 thread has oodles and oodles of information on the unsuccessful Milwaukee dig. We did seek - and received - permission to dig.

Who did you get permission from? Another problem:  If we find the correct tree,  if we are 100% certain that it is the right tree, there is still 360 degrees worth of dirt that it could be in.  What side of the tree should one dig on?  How close or far from the base?

Unknown: If we find the correct tree,  if we are 100% certain that it is the right tree, there is still 360 degrees worth of dirt that it could be in.  What side of the tree should one dig on?  How close or far from the base? If we're still talking about V2 (are we?), then the verse is clear: At twelve paces / From the west side . A pace is about a yard, so go 12 yards west of... whatever we're supposed to go 12 yards west of, then dig.

My thoughts (and it depends on how you read it) is that the "ONLY STANDING MEMBER" is the one that has a white stone closest, then 12 paces west from there.  I know usually people take it to mean a white stone 12 paces west from the only standing member.

I believe that digging 12 paces away leads to a digging area that is too large.  This is because of the variable length of a pace.  I take much bigger steps than most people, so I could go too far.  Perhaps BP's pace was not regular either? I believe that the rock at 12 paces is just a marker to make sure that one is in the right place. If only the last few lines had punctuation, they read so many different ways depending on where punctuation goes... I believe they are intended to read as follows. Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south The casque is beneath the only standing member, which is south of the Fort or the Wingless Bird. White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side There are/is white stone(s).  The closest one is at twelve paces from the west side. This interpretation still leaves some ambiguity as to where the casque is in relation to the tree.  I think the specific plot of land may be attainable from the last two lines, which we have as of yet been unable to decode. Get permission To dig out. Another possibility is that the final plot of land could be derived from the image.

A possible epiphany: Perhaps the white stone is not some marker at all, but rather a symbol for the gem that is to be dug up.  The month in image 2 is april.  The birthstone is diamond, which is generally white/clear, although it is blueish in the image.

Except you dig up a painted casque, not the gem itself.  I had thought the white "stone" could also be man-made, like a concrete marker, plaque, etc. Has anyone played with anagrams of the last couple of lines (or even any ther lines) yet?

we haven't noticed that anagramming was part of Preiss' bag of tricks. wilhouse

not to cast dispersions.... I still believe that a wingless bird ascending is a hot air balloon.  It has been some time since this discussion but it was tied in quite nicely somewhere else.  Was it Charleston... ?...not sure.

Yes, Fox. The Great Baloon Hoax, written by Poe, was located at Fort Moultrie, (I do not know if they have a marker there, but Poe is a God on Sullivan Island)

Interesting commentary of Sullivan Island.. Near the western extremity, where Fort Moultrie stands, and where are some miserable frame buildings, tenanted, during summer, by the fugitives from Charleston dust and fever, may be found, indeed, the bristly palmetto; but the whole island, with the exception of this western point, and a line of hard, white beach on the seacoast, is covered with a dense undergrowth of the sweet myrtle, so much prized by the horticulturists of England. Go to page    The Gold Bug by Poe, Edgar Allan The western part seems to be only place to find the 'forest'. If we are sold on Fort Moultrie, there shouldn't be too many options. The white stone should be something permanent as oppose to simply a natural hapistance. For your survey, I would reccommend looking for a plaque at the Fort apeaking of Poe's writings:  Gold Bug and Baloon Hoax.

I was just reading the verse, and something occured to me. A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side Get permission To dig out. I was thinking that the "Beneath" was describing the location of the casque.  This would make it under the tree.  However, it could also be properly read as meaning that the wingless bird ascended beneath the tree, or it could mean that it was born of ancient dreams beneath the tree.  This would make the casque be buried near the white stone instead of beneath the tree. So what kind of wingless bird would take flight beneath a tree?  What kind of ancient dreams were born beneath trees. Newton with his apple is the only thing that comes to mind as famous dreams born under trees, but maybe I'm missing something. Any ideas?

With little punctuation on the verses, the strength in them is how the lines are broken. I have always read each line as an individual clue, with secondary thoughts of weather to link it with the next line in a chain or stand it on its own. Each verse tells specfically where to dig. Beneath is the only direction in this verse on the exact spot. Also with the verses, BP rarely uses the exact words of what he is describing, unless it is a proper name. Therefore, instead of tree, he saids: "Standing memeber of a Forest" With this, is the "white stone" exactly that? I have a logisitcal question,  why if we are told that this is the only standing member, would he think we need to know that there is a white stone closest? I understand that from the west is telling us which side of the "member" to look at, but with the Milwaukee verse, the tree was enough of a landmark at the end. hmmm... I feel we are close.

Taking it further... If you are taking each line to be a seperate clue, but then added "of a forest" to the previous line, what if you did the same thing to the next couple of lines?  You would have: -  Beneath the only standing member of a forest -  To the south white stone closest -  At twelve paces from the west side -  Get permission to dig out So, second sentence above could be possibly pointing to a white stone SOUTH?  Then 12 paces west from there? As far as anagrams, I know the last couple of solved ones did not include anagrams, but does that really mean that none were used in any of the puzzles?

Egbert wrote:: I do not think that we should ask for solutions or even hints, unless it is an "emergency" --- such as Wilhouse's plight in Houston and the imminent demolishing of the treasure ground.  I got along well with him during my telephone call with him approx. 2 years ago, so I do not think anything bad will come of this. I think you hit it on the head here Egbert.  I wouldn't want answers either, but any inclination he might have to Houston, or any other site that may have been demolished or drastically changed would be great.  Does he look at this forum?  Would he let us flutter about knowing a casque was gone? I think he would be proud of his work and flattered to know there are still people out here who value that work.  Just my opinion.

In the newspaper article about the Cleveland find, it says that BP often sent him all kinds of dossiers and photographs of stuff so he could draw the pictures.  It's likely he still has these.

I called his work number, and there was no answer (not even a machine).  So, I called his home number, got a machine, and left a message.  I'll let you all know as soon as I speak with him.

Fair enough.  I agree tho that this call should only cover the issue of whether he has the locations/solutions & any possible "emergency" such as Wilhouse's plight or any destroyed or constructed over sites.  Please oh please, lets avoid the fishing expeditions or "you know, I have what seems to be a solid lead to Milwaukee...could you confirm or deny this and possibly nudge me in the right direction" type requests.  The LAST thing we need is to pester the only possible guy left with any knowledge of the solutions/locations.

I think I would be more comfortable just knowing that someone out there knows the solutions, so that eventually, once the hunt is over for real, we will know for sure. And what did happen to those jewels, anyway?? They couldn't have just disappeared.

If the jewels were in a safe deposit box, then his wife should have custody of them (if she did not have them set in jewelry, or sold them - death in a family can be rather expensive depending on insurance, etc).  That doesnt necessarily mean she would honor the hunt still though if someone found a casque and tried to claim one!  My understanding is all that was lost was the solutions.

Egbert wrote:: I do not think that we should ask for solutions or even hints, unless it is an "emergency" --- such as Wilhouse's plight in Houston and the imminent demolishing of the treasure ground. do you think it would be worth the contact to show him the photo of the "treasure grounds" I have posted and see if that rings any bells with him for the Houston casque? wilhouse

Egbert:  I have decided not to call JJP at risk of cheapening a potential find.  This seems to coincide with popular opinion on this board.  You no longer have to put in a good word for me, but it might be good to set up for potential future "emergency" calls.

He called me back at work in the evening, but I had already left.  It was a nice message --- advising me of the BP tragedy in case I did not already know.  I will call him back later today.

please ask him about his thoughts on Houston.  I can send you the picture if you need me to. wilhouse

How to find a tree, a white rock at twelve paces, but not a casque: We began the day at 6:00.  Rolling out of bed, we choked down some breakfast and jumped in the car.  Myself and two friends arrived at Fort Moultrie at 10 or 11, and we set out to look at two trees that were possible "only standing members..."  As it turns out, neither had a white stone of any kind near it.  On had a large dune to the west, but it could not really be described as white due to the plant growth.  We go to the car to get drinks feeling dejected. We decide to look around the fort and parade field.  We get horribly lost in the woods near the shore, and discover that small cactus plants hurt beyond all imagination.  I hold the record of getting stuck 18 times.  Owe. We then go to the beach to dip extra tee shirts in the water to wrap around our heads.  We look like fools and decide that it may not be too far from the truth. Back to the parade field.  Coming up from the west most part of the beach, we climb some white rocks to get back up to fort grounds.  We figure that with the large granite slabs around, it may be worth looking in this area.  It is. After only a few minutes of perusing this course.  We come upon this beauty: A feeling of solitude surrounds the tree.  It is definitely apart from the rest, but there are no granite slabs nearby.  Then, we see it:  the small glimmer of hope that we drove all this way for. We thought it was a benchmark, but there is no latitude or longitude present on it.  My since of distance says that this is too far away from the tree, but I decide to pace it off anyway. It was 25 steps.  That's 12 1/2 of my paces. Euphoria. I tried to circle the stone on the left side of the picture, but it didn't turn out too well with paint. We thought this was a benchmark at first, and a sense of desperation filled us.  There would be no way to dig here because it is on NPS property.  I seek the person with the most authority at Fort Moultrie, and after several hours of missed phone calls, I get a hold of him.  He says he'd be glad to meet me in his office. After talking to him, I find out that there is absolutely NO way to dig on NPS property.  Period.  If he wanted to, he couldn't. Seeking one final saving throw, I ask where the property line is.  Perhaps the tree and rock are inside the property line. After half an hour of talking to different people, I come to find out the beautiful truth.  The rock is not a benchmark, but a property marker.  The west side of it is not NPS property, but rather belongs to the state of SC, and it is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Ocean and Coastal Resources. More buerocracy. I call my dad, and he looks up the number.  I call them, and they tell me it's ok to dig there.  All he asked was, "I have to know... What is it you're digging up?"  I explain the story, and he says, "That is awesome.  Best of luck to you." We have permission to dig. The head honcho of the park insists of overseeing our digging.  Possibly this is because he is concerned about the possibility of crossing onto park property.  Possibly it is because he wants to watch our backs in case we get stopped by police, but I really think he just wanted to see if we would find anything. We didn't. The fort closes at 5:00.  The gentleman overseeing our digging gets off work at this time, so we are keeping him from going home (to the Mount Pleasant farmer's market no less).  We feel bad at 5:30 and decide to call it quits.  We dug three feet deep, but our hole was not very large in diameter.  Perhaps we missed it. I believe that this explains the significance of the last two lines of the verse.  If one "gets permission to dig out," as it says, he will find out that he cannot dig near the tree.  He can however dig on the west side of the rock.  This is the way I think the verse should read: Beneath the only standing member of a forest to the south of the fort, there is a white stone at twelve paces.  On the west side, get permission to dig out. The west side is the side not owned by Fort Moultrie BTW. I genuinely believe that this is the correct tree and stone.  I believe this because the white stone is of great significance.  It is not some random chunk of rock; it is an official marker that cannot be moved on penalty of law.  This would insure that the rock could not be moved. We are returning to try to dig later.  Possibly Saturday, possibly some time next week.  I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas. ANY. Until then, wish us luck. To view all the pictures, including a better picture of the property marker, go to: http://img140.imageshack.us/slideshow/p ... 24uxb.smil That you all for your hard work on this.

Awesome!  Best of luck!  Make it find #3!

Nice find, lobster411. If you're right, we walked right by the dang thing! Here is my picture: And here is a satellite view. I can see why this palmetto might be called the last standing member of a forest, since it looks isolated: There is a different way to interpret the verse. White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side ...to me means at 12 paces from the west side of the only standing member. So at 12 paces from the tree, you'll find a white stone (which you did). Get permission to dig out might mean "dig on the side for which you need to seek permission," i.e., the east side. I really think you need a probe. The sandy soil would be ideal, and you wouldn't have to dig to find out if there was anything there. My other advice is to arrive after 5:00 on a weekday and wait until no one is around. The place was pretty deserted when we went, and that was after 5:00pm on a Sunday (I think).

I will not be digging on the east side. The penalty for digging on NPS property is as follows:  They take your equipment (metal detectors, shovels, etc), anything you find, your vehicle, and everything in it.  This information was acquired from the staff at Fort Moultrie. What do you suggest using as a probe?  We used 1/8 inch poles.  We could get them into the ground a ways, but despite the sandy ground, there are still rocks. I know it is possible to rent metal detectors, but does anyone know anything about sonar probing stuff?  Also, if I can rent a metal detector, do you think that method is viable? Egbert:  Could you give me dimensions on the plexiglass box?  I know it was rather destroyed, but was there enough left to tell how big it was?

WHOOO YAA! Nice find, I guess the old fashion way of walking around still is better than Google earth. An important confirmer: That rock looks like the diamond from the image! GREAT WORK! The term "dig out" must mean to dig outside the NPS boundaries. As in Cleveland, that was bounded by a concrete "planter" this site is bounded by the water and the  property line. How was the view of Sumter?

lobster411 wrote:: Egbert:  Could you give me dimensions on the plexiglass box?  I know it was rather destroyed, but was there enough left to tell how big it was? It is a cube, about 8 or 9 inches per side.  The plexiglass is probably about 1/2 inch thick.  Good luck!

Unknown: An important confirmer: That rock looks like the diamond from the image! Unknown: As in Cleveland, that was bounded by a concrete "planter" this site is bounded by the water and the  property line. Unknown: How was the view of Sumter? I didn't even notice, but you're right! Unfortunately, there are about twenty feet between the property line and the rocks on the shore line.  I would expect that it would be right beside the rock, so that's where we dug.  If we go again, that is probably where we will start. I completely forgot to look!  However, we did see the Ravenel bridge, which is much farther away.  Fort Sumter would definitely be visable.  This is also very cool because it means you would have been able to see the Silas Pearman bridge when it was there.  If you look hard enough, you might even find patriot's point. Another nice thing to note: the triangle on the property marker points due west.  It might point to the treasure. Also, I forgot to post this picture last time: Our lion?

very nice. you are definately close. I used a probe bought at home depot. It's in the area around the sprinkler fittings. It's for looking for underground pipes and such. it's basically a 3 foot long steel rod with a point on the bottom. if you are really interested in renting a GPS, (ground penetrating radar), I have some contact information. It's not cheap. and it's hard to decipher what you are looking at (yes, I used one for a whole day!!)  let me know. what if the rules changed and it really is on the other side of the rock?? a metal detector, and a really good one, MIGHT detect the metal piece in the key. if it's not buried too deep. but it might not too. good luck wilhouse

Too bad I am so far away.  I have one of the best detectors available (Minelab Explorer) that uses 21 different frequencies for it's detection (vs. the 1 or 2 frequencies of most other detectors).  So, it can go deep, and with a newer Excelsior coil (the larger the coil, the deeper penetration) I bet it would find a casque based on the metal rod in the key.  Detectors like this were not available in the 1980's (or for that matter most of the 1990's even!).  I use it for spanish doubloons near Sebastian Inlet from the 1715 Plate Fleet that wash up on the beach after large storms/hurricanes. As far as probes go, have you tried a shephards hook?  If the casque is at 3 feet in 1982, it could be from 2-4 feet in 2006 - the 3 foot probe for pipes may not reach it.  You can get a shephards hook at Home Depot or Lowe's in the gardening section.  Some are 5-6 ft in length.  They are a thin metal pole, have a point on the end, and curve over into a hook at the top (for hanging plants and such).  You can use the curve as a handle to get better leverage to plunge into the ground vs. a straight rod. Looking forward to hearing more about this location - it does seem to fit the verse and visual clues.  I am putting off further research on verse 5 tied to Florida in a location I have scouted by foot for now, and if it turns out to be SC I can move on obviously...

wilhouse wrote:: very nice. you are definately close. I used a probe bought at home depot. It's in the area around the sprinkler fittings. It's for looking for underground pipes and such. it's basically a 3 foot long steel rod with a point on the bottom. if you are really interested in renting a GPS, (ground penetrating radar), I have some contact information. It's not cheap. and it's hard to decipher what you are looking at (yes, I used one for a whole day!!)  let me know. what if the rules changed and it really is on the other side of the rock?? a metal detector, and a really good one, MIGHT detect the metal piece in the key. if it's not buried too deep. but it might not too. good luck wilhouse Using a metal detector on NPS property carries the same penalties for digging.  Don't do it. How much was the GPR rental for the other side of the rock?  How well did it work?  If I was willing to spring for it, would you recommend it?

lobster...... one word  .....  WOW.  It all seems to fit nicely.  It has to be in the vicinity.  I will disect my notes, V & P in hopes of finding something that may pinpoint our casque.  Keep searching...... Looks like #3 is about to see the light of day at last......

forest_blight wrote:: Nice find, lobster411. If you're right, we walked right by the dang thing! Here is my picture: I noticed something in Forest Blight's picture - the red, white, & blue stripes.

Why do I always miss these things? And in my own pictures!

lobster411 wrote:: Using a metal detector on NPS property carries the same penalties for digging.  Don't do it. How much was the GPR rental for the other side of the rock?  How well did it work?  If I was willing to spring for it, would you recommend it? Except in Florida...  You can use a Metal Detector on NPS property in the sand part of a beach between the waters edge and the dune line.  In your case, you can use it on the non-park side of the rock, and when no one is around a couple quick swings on the other side Not like you are metal detecting around the fort itself...  However, you may get some false reads very close to the rock because it has metal in it itself.

Talk about eating crow.  Looks like this verse is SC and not NY.  Nice. Nice Nice.  Go get it Lobster! Egbert, I owe you a dollar! edit: the ship in Forest's pic could be the ship above the pear in image2.  And notice the shape of the diagram under the canon.

quick question:  couldnt the lines that read "white stone closest at tweleve paces from the west side" mean that the casque is 12 paces from the west side of the stone and not the stone is 12 paces from the tree? - could the line "Citadel in the night" just be a confirmer for Ft. Moultrie?  Not that it is a citadel...just that The Citadel is on Moultrie Street. - where on this pic is your tree & stone?  Is it on left side of pic above the words "Carolina Legion" ?  Not much space to the ocean is there? http://www.geocities.com/e6nchunley/Moultrie.jpg

boogie - you don't owe anyone $1 until a casque gets uprooted. The shape of the diagram under the cannon is for the old Ft. Moultrie, and isn't the proper shape. The mask in P2 is the exact shape of Fort Sumter, however - Charleston's most enduring icon. fox - The stone is directly up from the 'm' in 'Camp.' 12 paces from the stone would put you either on the beach or underwater, from what I gather (and remember). Maybe there has been hurricane erosion? ...and that's a nice photo of the area!

fox wrote:: quick question:  couldnt the lines that read "white stone closest at tweleve paces from the west side" mean that the casque is 12 paces from the west side of the stone and not the stone is 12 paces from the tree? - could the line "Citadel in the night" just be a confirmer for Ft. Moultrie?  Not that it is a citadel...just that The Citadel is on Moultrie Street. - where on this pic is your tree & stone?  Is it on left side of pic above the words "Carolina Legion" ?  Not much space to the ocean is there? http://www.geocities.com/e6nchunley/Moultrie.jpg You aren't planning on digging it up are you?  Because I would really like to get it myself...

lobster411 wrote:: You aren't planning on digging it up are you?  Because I would really like to get it myself... Me? dig it up?  Not unless I can find a shovel with a handle long enough to reach from NM This one seems to be all yours, unless anyone else in the area wants to join in the excitement of unearthing the bad boy.  I wont be me tho,,,,no worries there.

Sorry.  I guess I can't shake the competitive nature of other hunts.

One of these days you will begin to trust The Secret hunters. Even if I were nearby, you would be the first person I would contact to ensure you join in the dig.

lobster411 wrote:: Sorry.  I guess I can't shake the competitive nature of other hunts. you need to try, at least here. wilhouse

From what I understand, the first twenty years of this hunt was very very competitve and one casque was found After that, we started working together, and one casque was found *flip*  I call heads.

Trohn, you have 60 smites man.  I'm loving it.  Keep it alive!

*lol* "I do not want to be the pearl that people find in the oysters; I want to be that grain of sand that caused the pearl to form."          -Ross Perot

Digging again tomarrow.  Any last minute advice?

dig where the casque is sorry good luck wilhouse

Been away from the board for a while--WOW--nice find Lob! Good luck to you--the book has said it could be down 3 1/2 feet, dig deep.  I hope that you find it!

Good luck!  I eagerly await your updates!

I went today and found nothing.  We dug 4 feet deep over an area of about 16 square feet.  This took 4 hours.  This is the area where the casque would have been expected to be.  Possible reasons the casque was absent include: 1)  They were moved/found/decimated when new water and electrical pipes were put in underground after hurricane Hugo (1989). 2)The casque is actually under the tree, which is NPS property.  Even in 1981, it was a major offense to dig on NPS property.  I expect a man of BP's genious would not make such a simple error as putting this where no one can possibly dig. 3) I used the wrong verse.  I personally do not believe this to be the case.  Everything fit perfectly. Looks like no one owes anyone a dollar yet. Thoughts?

Well, here's my 2 cents anyway.  The other casques I think were buried by stone walls.  I can't see a tree being part of any dig site. At least you have a shovel in the ground though.  Good work Lobster. As far as the verse goes, you made it fit real nicely.  Yet it still goes real nicely in NY.  Will it ever be proven either way?  Who knows.

As I have said previosuly, if it were not for the Cleveland find, we may all be thinking that this was a big hoax. Verse and Image fit here just as they fit in Milwaukee. The tree is in the same spot. The rock is in the same spot. Is there possibly another rock and tree?  (unlikely) "Beneath the only standing member of a forest to the south" "Get permission to dig out" You did not need 'permission' to dig where you were today. The white stone seems to be for verification of the 'only standing member' You have now given a good casue to believe it is on NPS property. I wonder if he hid this on just like he hid the Houston one or if he did get permision.... I feel your frustration.

I disagree with boogie about the tree - the Milwaukee verse is pretty explicit about it being buried at the foot of a tree. Why should this one be any different? And I agree completely with Trohn (for once!). Paraphrased, the end of the verse could read: Dig beneath the tree that's all alone to the south, You know - the one that has a white stone 12 paces west of it. And you'll need to ask before you dig. or... Dig beneath the tree that's all alone to the south, You know - the one that's nearest to the white stone. But you'll have to walk 12 paces due west first. The upshot is that the treasure could be (a) on the NPS side of the white stone or (b) 12 paces west of the tree, ignoring the stone altogether. These are different because the stone isn't exactly due west (as the raven flies!). Pacing off a treasure location was likely a deliberate play on the fact that Poe's "The Gold Bug" - one of the best treasure hunting stories ever - was set on Sullivan's Island, and pacing off locations is a classic part of unearthing buried pirate treasure in fiction. In "The Gold Bug," by the way, they get the location wrong at first (Jupe couldn't tell his right from left, and it turned out to be very important). But they realize their mistake and on the second try they find the treasure. The moral: don't give up! I very much doubt that BP got permission before burying the casque on NPS property, because then someone else would have known a casque location, something he kept closely guarded. Even JJP knew only a couple of locations.

lobster411 wrote:: I went today and found nothing.  We dug 4 feet deep over an area of about 16 square feet.  This took 4 hours. welcome to wilhouse's "dig till you drop club" there are several members.  you are the newest. the only perk to being in this club is calluses... wilhouse

I can't shake the belief that BP would be smarter than to bury it on NPS property, but it seems like the tree may be a viable option.  In the book, it was written that if one correctly solved the riddle, and was unable to dig it up, they could write in their solution and get the jewel anyway.  Could this be worth contacting Bantam Books about?

Being a new charter member to Wilhouse's DTYD club myself,  I can feel your disappointment.  But I can also tell you that it is far better to be able to put a shovel in it and try and dig it up than to know a possible location where permission is not granted to dig at all.  Been there done that.  You are out of the arm chair--think about it -- you really went digging for buried treasure. Just like in Milwaukee--there seemed to be part of the verse that we could never really account for.  Yours is that darn wingless bird.  Or like you said--its a different verse.  Look over your pictures in a few weeks--try to divorse yourself from previous asumptions-- and see it with new eyes--see if something strikes you.  Nice job all around.

part of the verse that could never really be accounted for.......Hmmmm.  Ain't that a female dog ! (Sorry, no offense ladies.  Didn't know what else to say) The verses can really mess us up here.

stercox wrote:: Yours is that darn wingless bird. Tying in with both:  my longstanding belief of this referring to a hot air balloon.... as well as...... with FB's mention of Poe's The Gold Bug .. why not look to The Great Balloon Hoax by Poe.  In part: "Edgar Allan Poe wrote a hoax centered on the first crossing of the Atlantic in a balloon and sold it to the New York Sun. It appeared on April 13, 1844 headlined in an extra heralding: "The Atlantic Crossed in Three Days!" The story went on to say: "The great problem is at length solved. The Air, as well as Earth and the Ocean, has been subdued by science, and will become a common and convenient highway for mankind. The Atlantic has actually been crossed in a balloon!" The story that followed was about five thousand words in length. To summarize it, Monck Mason had applied the principle of the Archimedian screw to the propulsion of a dirigible balloon. The gas bag was an ellipsoid thirteen feet long with a car suspended from it. The screw propeller, which was attached to the car, was operated by a spring. A rudder shaped like a battledore kept the airship on its course. The voyagers, according to the story, started from Mr. Osborne's home in North Wales, intending to sail across the English Channel. The mechanism of the propeller broke, and the balloon, caught in a strong northeast wind, was carried across the Atlantic at a speed of sixty or more miles an hour. Mr. Mason kept a journal, to which, at the end of each day, Mr. Ainsworth added a postscript. The balloon landed safely on the coast of South Carolina, near Fort Moultrie. " nice landing spot I must say.  Entire article here -> http://www.historybuff.com/library/refballoon.html

It has been mentioned that the design in the butterfly wings looks like sea turtles. Sullivan's Island is an active turtle nesting site: http://web.ccgnet.com/turtleteam/

fox wrote:: Tying in with both:  my longstanding belief of this referring to a hot air balloon.... as well as...... with FB's mention of Poe's The Gold Bug .. why not look to The Great Balloon Hoax by Poe.  In part: I had always thought that the wingless bird would begin to narrow down the location, but I just realized that this is completely unecessary!  If this is just another way to point to Fort Moultrie, then the next lines are still more than enough to find the tree and rock.  If we are to believe that this verse goes with Sullivan's Island, which I still believe it does, then I think this is the most plausible explaination for the meaning of the bird.

I think the big clue here would be the h type symbol pointing to the heart of Charleston in the African mask.  Unless you can find a map or something real close in the image that leads to Fort Moultrie. The h looks real intentional.  I still contend that the thing under the h is an old shoe with a face melting off looking to the right.

That symbol too has haunted me.

Has anyone else noticed what looks like a curvy arrow pointing right to Drum Island? I wonder if it's intentional.

Looks to be a whole lot going on in the map here.  How about this one in the butterfly...

Trying to keep Lobster going.  Do these #s mean anything to you?

boogie - interesting, but now that I look at your July 30 posting, I suddenly see what you were talking about. It's a good match to the white part of the butterfuly wing. What statue is that?

That statue is located at Brookgreen Gardens at Pawleys Inlet SC.  A little too far north for where we are looking, but I thought I would use it to express my thinking.

Little wacky, but here goes;  you can also see this in the book, not just the scans.  At first, i thought that the scans must have been marked up before uploading.  But I checked the book.  Tell me, anyone , that you see this. The middle guy looks like an LBJ

No bites on this one?  Thoughts?  Confirm or deny,  I know it looks absurd.  I know it doesn't look to fit in BP's style, but maybe it does for JJP.

Hummm.  Creative...  Not bad.  Thanks Fenix, I was expecting "hallucination".

Hallucination #2; Been out of work a month due to injury.  I better get back soon!

boogieman wrote:: Trying to keep Lobster going.  Do these #s mean anything to you? Sorry I've been gone for a while. http://www.srcalifornia.com/Battles1775-77a.htm Notice the fourth one under the 1776 heading.  William Moultrie led an American force of 436 men during the battle of Sullivan's Island during the American revolution.  I can find none of the other numbers in the picture (British forces, casualties, deaths, etc), but if you can, please let me know. I remain completely convinced that this casque is at Fort Moultrie.

Perhaps a plaque/monument at the site includes these numbers.

Like this one? http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/550856866/2994455360091493633APJIkW This sign was only recently erected, but perhaps it replaces an older one...

forest_blight wrote:: Like this one? http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/550856866/2994455360091493633APJIkW This sign was only recently erected, but perhaps it replaces an older one... I remember this sign.  If I recall correctly, it was placed there in 1996 by a group of local veterens.  It is interesting to note that the figure in that sign is 435, which is 1 off from the desired 436.  Everything I have seen online indicates 436.

If you zoom in really close, you can see that it was erected in 2005 by the D.A.R. Perhaps some new information was discovered last year that let them revise the figure.

Hmm.  I must have been thinking of a different sign. In any case, the 436 seems to be another confirmer for Fort Moultrie.

Found this and thought it was woth sharing. note the similarity between the major roads (hwy 17) and the branch running thru P2.  The pear would fit over where historic Charleston lies.  Why a pear...?....still unsure, unless it may be that travelling east over the Cooper River from historic Charleston to the Mount Pleasant area, you cross over the Silas Pearman Bridge ...  Even the mask (Ft Sumter) is in the correct location on the map.  For further exploration of this page go to http://www.cr.nps.gov/nr/travel/charleston/map.htm Marion Square

fox - see stercox' post of April 4. it's back a ways, but this idea has come up before. I like it a lot.

oops, sorry bout that FB....  Just trying to generate more interest again on a P that we are SURE of the city location...

Er.... ....this is the image I have found that pairs with verse 10, and I have a completely different location for the casque. ck

Do tell!

shecrab wrote:: Er.... ....this is the image I have found that pairs with verse 10, and I have a completely different location for the casque. ck different location than Charleston?...  You are going to have to do some serious convincing and basically have the exact location to dig to sway us on this P.

I thought I'd keep this one to myself until I can get to the location. That way I don't embarrass myself. Once I go to the location in the Spring, so I can see the place for myself, then I'll tell more. Actually, I have the image and the verse 100% decoded. It's a matter now of waiting for ground to thaw, because this one isn't diggable yet. But everything--and I do mean everything--fits like a glove. I'll tell you this: it's nowhere near the Carolinas. This one is in Canada. One of the keys is the word "rhapsodic". It has nothing to do with music. The rest also matches beautifully--but because of a certain ambiguity with the verse when giving the precise location, it is difficult to tell whether you go east from the right or left branch of the V. One way will take you to one location, and the other will take you somewhere else. It's not a big deal, but I can't be more precise until I go and look. And hey---if I'm wrong, then I'll have an amusing post for y'all. c

I am dying to know just where you believe this P to be leading us...especially since the map of Charleston SC is obviously and exactly depicted on the forehead of the strange mask.

fox - if the pointer thingy were indicating a spot in Charleston, then it would be level with the southern tip of Drum Island, no? On the other hand, I just discovered that The Citadel (Military College of SC) occupied the site on the north side of Marion Park from 1843 to 1922. Brings Verse 5 to mind. Hmmm... You can see some pictures I took in Marion Square last year here: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/2136523510091493633RRQUQl

Jambone wrote:: I noticed something in Forest Blight's picture - the red, white, & blue stripes. just want to remind everyone of lobster's fantastic work.

lobster411 wrote:: How to find a tree, a white rock at twelve paces, but not a casque: We began the day at 6:00.  Rolling out of bed, we choked down some breakfast and jumped in the car.  Myself and two friends arrived at Fort Moultrie at 10 or 11, and we set out to look at two trees that were possible "only standing members..."  As it turns out, neither had a white stone of any kind near it.  On had a large dune to the west, but it could not really be described as white due to the plant growth.  We go to the car to get drinks feeling dejected. We decide to look around the fort and parade field.  We get horribly lost in the woods near the shore, and discover that small cactus plants hurt beyond all imagination.  I hold the record of getting stuck 18 times.  Owe. We then go to the beach to dip extra tee shirts in the water to wrap around our heads.  We look like fools and decide that it may not be too far from the truth. Back to the parade field.  Coming up from the west most part of the beach, we climb some white rocks to get back up to fort grounds.  We figure that with the large granite slabs around, it may be worth looking in this area.  It is. After only a few minutes of perusing this course.  We come upon this beauty: A feeling of solitude surrounds the tree.  It is definitely apart from the rest, but there are no granite slabs nearby.  Then, we see it:  the small glimmer of hope that we drove all this way for. We thought it was a benchmark, but there is no latitude or longitude present on it.  My since of distance says that this is too far away from the tree, but I decide to pace it off anyway. It was 25 steps.  That's 12 1/2 of my paces. Euphoria. I tried to circle the stone on the left side of the picture, but it didn't turn out too well with paint. We thought this was a benchmark at first, and a sense of desperation filled us.  There would be no way to dig here because it is on NPS property.  I seek the person with the most authority at Fort Moultrie, and after several hours of missed phone calls, I get a hold of him.  He says he'd be glad to meet me in his office. After talking to him, I find out that there is absolutely NO way to dig on NPS property.  Period.  If he wanted to, he couldn't. Seeking one final saving throw, I ask where the property line is.  Perhaps the tree and rock are inside the property line. After half an hour of talking to different people, I come to find out the beautiful truth.  The rock is not a benchmark, but a property marker.  The west side of it is not NPS property, but rather belongs to the state of SC, and it is under the jurisdiction of the Department of Ocean and Coastal Resources. More buerocracy. I call my dad, and he looks up the number.  I call them, and they tell me it's ok to dig there.  All he asked was, "I have to know... What is it you're digging up?"  I explain the story, and he says, "That is awesome.  Best of luck to you." We have permission to dig. The head honcho of the park insists of overseeing our digging.  Possibly this is because he is concerned about the possibility of crossing onto park property.  Possibly it is because he wants to watch our backs in case we get stopped by police, but I really think he just wanted to see if we would find anything. We didn't. The fort closes at 5:00.  The gentleman overseeing our digging gets off work at this time, so we are keeping him from going home (to the Mount Pleasant farmer's market no less).  We feel bad at 5:30 and decide to call it quits.  We dug three feet deep, but our hole was not very large in diameter.  Perhaps we missed it. I believe that this explains the significance of the last two lines of the verse.  If one "gets permission to dig out," as it says, he will find out that he cannot dig near the tree.  He can however dig on the west side of the rock.  This is the way I think the verse should read: Beneath the only standing member of a forest to the south of the fort, there is a white stone at twelve paces.  On the west side, get permission to dig out. The west side is the side not owned by Fort Moultrie BTW. I genuinely believe that this is the correct tree and stone.  I believe this because the white stone is of great significance.  It is not some random chunk of rock; it is an official marker that cannot be moved on penalty of law.  This would insure that the rock could not be moved. We are returning to try to dig later.  Possibly Saturday, possibly some time next week.  I would appreciate any thoughts or ideas. ANY. Until then, wish us luck. To view all the pictures, including a better picture of the property marker, go to: http://img140.imageshack.us/slideshow/p ... 24uxb.smil That you all for your hard work on this. and this description of the final clues. white stone found - and no chance of it being moved

fox wrote:: the map/mask has an odd pointer thing which has not been identified yet...it appears to be pointing dead center Charleston at the park which I believe to be Marion Square.  X marks the spot I think if you look at the verses and want to go with V5, Fort Moultrie is the place to look. If you want to go with V6 or V2 (don't hit me anyone), then you can move to Marion Square. I can't imagine V5 going anywhere else in Charleston, not after all the work done on it so far. Can you dig there anyway? I don't think so- With or without permission. But the other two verses.....

shecrab wrote:: So why hasn't anyone dug anything up in Charleston? If you've been working on it that long, why hasn't anyone found anything yet? Wow.  I go on hiatus for a couple of months, and people being to light up this thread again. The explored location was dug at twice. EVERY part of the verse fit.  Even directions and distances were accurate. The only cryptic part of the verse is whether the casque is buried at the tree or the white rock. If it is buried under the tree, it is on the property of the National Park Service and is completely irretrievable.  To say that it wouldn't make sense to bury it here is misdirected.  Preiss buried these in secret in the dead of night.  He lacked permission to dig anywhere, and while I'd like to think he'd have the forsight to not bury it here, it should not be ruled out as a possibility. If it is buried at the rock, it has been displaced or destroyed.  Since 1982, the spot was hit by Hurricane Hugo, displacing up to a foot of the sandy ground.  Since then, 3 kinds of pipe have been laid over the exact spot the casque should be.  That means that dirt was clumsily moved by indiscriminate bulldozers thrice. Why wasn't the casque found?  It is either impossible to retrieve, or it is scattered in hundreds of beautifully unique shards over several hundred feet of earth. I appreciate hope as much as the next guy, but I don't think anyone could ask for a more perfect solution than the one I tried to employ.  I hesitate to say 'mine,' because many here did far more work than I. Continue on whatever strand you have if you must.  I pray that you'll be able to tell me you told me so, but I have no shred of uncertainty as to the solution to this riddle.

Unknown: Continue on whatever strand you have if you must.  I pray that you'll be able to tell me you told me so, but I have no shred of uncertainty as to the solution to this riddle. I am encouraged in this hunt only because after 20 years, a casque was still found underground. That is really the only thing that keeps me interested in it--I do not care if I "win" anything or if what I do win is worth any dollar figure. Thing is, I know you all say you have these "perfect" solutions--and believe me, I've been through every post on here and tweleve.org as well, and followed as many links as possible, when they work--and still I can't help feeling that you sometimes "talk yourselves into" a solution more than have a perfect one. That's not a criticism--not by any means. I may be doing the same thing here--and only my own experiences will tell me if that is the case. But a lot of times, what I see is that once a location is possible, or once there is some marker found to link a verse and an image, that few other ideas are entertained. Again--I'm not criticizing, this is the observation of someone who read all the posts at one time--from beginning to end. It may not be easy to see this pattern emerging if you're starting a thread and posting every day or week for a long while. And there are far fewer of you who are actively doing this hunt, so you tend to believe in each other more than if you were not known well to each other, or just single members of a very large forum. So, that said, I will say that I don't have this image (2) paired with the verse(s) you have used. I have it paired with Verse 10. The markers, the image elements, the latitude and longitude and the map all fit very tightly--I have not dug there yet, because the ground is frozen and will be for some time. And the areas I would need to visit are now closed. I understand that there might be some shifts in landscape and location over the past two decades. However, I can't help thinking that Preiss would have chosen locations where this would be less likely to happen. Who knows, really? I don't yet. And I'm not claiming that my solution to this image/verse is correct--only a casque will prove that. I'll post my solution after I go there and scout out the terrain and possibly try to dig. If I'm wrong, then I'll post it and we can all laugh at my folly. As far as I'm concerned there is no certainty until something has been found or until all possibilities have been entertained equally. And remember, this is not criticism of anyone here or their methods--it's just my opinion coming at it from the 'outside' and from a distance away. ck

That white stone IS a benchmark, but it is called a "Triangulation Disk" it is a different form of a benchmark. It sounds like it is there. By the way, those three colors seem to be the French Flag colors. I think we got it.

shecrab wrote:: And there are far fewer of you who are actively doing this hunt, so you tend to believe in each other more than if you were not known well to each other, or just single members of a very large forum. I hear you, shecrab. Passionate defense of cherished theories keeps the debate raging and motivates us to look for more confirming evidence. But the fact that multiple theories are entertained by the group is a good thing. I think anyone here would be more than happy to have their favorite theories quashed if it meant finding a casque in an unexpected location. And for the record, I believe only 1% of what trohn says. But it's that 1% that keeps me coming back for more!

forest_blight wrote:: And for the record, I believe only 1% of what trohn says. But it's that 1% that keeps me coming back for more! Finally, I am being heard!!!

um...Did you say something? edit: shecrab, I'm with FB on this.  Meaning, I hope you are right.  I love V10 for NY, but i'll give it to you on a platter.  I have a strong gut feeling for NY.  I had the "moment" of clarity for sure, but I'm not 100%.  I can see it fitting almost anywhere with a grey giant and a bridge.  Why not Canada?  But, P2?  What lats and longs do you have?  Maps?  Landmarks?  Call me crazy, but I think out of all the unsolved images, Charleston has got to be the closest to 100% as you can get.  I'm curious, but I'll wait til spring if you feel that strongly.  Ah, 2 more weeks! LOL

I too agree with FB, boogie AND Trohn (occasionally).  It is not that we are not open to new ideas around here...yes, we do tend to glom onto a good thing.  I will be the first (nay, at least the second to say..including yourself SC) that there is no way to give a definitive YES to which V goes with this P2....but.... to say it is somewhere besides Charleston is going to be hard to convince.  The map of Charleston and Ft Sumter are just too exact for it to be elsewhere. Yes, find the casque elsewhere and the boards will again be jumping with joy as it was w/ Sir Egg's find.

Did anyone ever come up with a good explanation for the slit-like eyes in the mask and the Ft. Sumpter plan view?  Where they show up in 2 places like that, I can't help but think there's some significance. I think you found the tree, Lobster.  The verse sounds like it's by the tree, itself, to me.

The only other thought I had was about the pear tree branch in the image.  There's the pear hanging from it but it doesn't seem to have pear tree leaves.  I decided the tree was bald cypress from looking at a website of South Carolina trees.  For awhile I was thinking the only standing member of a forest might mean the only bald cypress in an area of other trees, but based on Lobster's findings, I don't think so anymore, although I'm still wondering why they aren't pear tree leaves.

I think the common theory is that the pear represents the Silas Pearman bridge, which would have been where the pear is hanging when the branch is interpreted as a map.  The discrepancy between the needles and the fruit is something that I've noticed, but haven't put much thought into. ...and the findings belong to the group, not just me.

Greetings fellow armchair treasure hunters, I've only been working on The Secret for about 1 month, initially through downloading the images and verses, and reading the extended threads for the casques in Houston, TX and Milwaukee, WI.  I just received a used copy of the actual book in the mail, I decided to read through this entire thread today.  Here are my current beliefs regarding Image 2 / Verse 5: 1)  The casque is definitely in the Charleston, SC area.  The combination of the 32/33 79/80 lat/long box, the map of rivers and land masses in the mask, and the precise shape of Fort Sumter in the second mask put this into the DEFINITE category for me. 2)  The Verse 5 argument for the Fort Meier area is in the "very good possibility" category for me, but not definite.  The 22 1/2 = "Lane two twenty two" is almost a match, but is just enough of a reconfiguration to leave some room for doubt in my mind.  Same with L'on avenue matching the large lion in the image - possibly.  I like the granite walls connection to the Fort itself.  But I'm not sure that the "A wingless bird ascended" is supposed to point to the Balloon Hoax of Edgar Allen Poe.  In his story, the balloon started in England and arrived (descended) on Sullivan's Island, so why isn't the clue "A wingless bird descended"? 3)  As for the particular tree and white marker found by lobster411 (great post by the way!), I have one main reason why I don't think it is the right location:  The distance from the tree to the white stone marker was described in this way: "It was 25 steps.  That's 12 1/2 of my paces." .  As far as I know, the definition of "pace" is ambiguous, either one step or two (see http://www.letterboxing.info/articles/00000014.php ).  Can we determine which definition is used in The Secret from the "100 paces" distance mentioned in verse 8 for the Milwaukee, WI casque?  I know that one hasn't been found either, but most of the path for it was nailed down pretty well, so was that based on 5 foot or 2 1/2 foot long paces? 4)  Some have suggested that the three bands of color in the Fort Sumter shaped mask are red, white and blue, matching the French flag in the display near there.  I have examined my book very carefully under bright light and judge that the colors are in fact red, yellow, and green.  The yellow is clearly different in color than the white star to the right of it, and the green is definitely different from the blue present on the rest of the image.  I believe the red/yellow/green combination is another pointer to the Africa country theme, because these three colors are known as the Pan-African colors: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pan-African_colors So, there's my first post, for what it is worth! Thanar

Whoops, my post above under (3) should read "I have one main reason why I'm UNSURE IF it is the right location", rather than "I don't think"... Thanar

Nice post Thanar, welcome to the fun house One point to highlight from your rundown "lane two twenty two" Starts off the verse and the first lines of the verses are both specfic and cryptic in that they put you in a very very exact spot to then follow the rest of the clues (on the poetic journey as it were) If you start off at the right spot as BP you are more than half on your way. 'Lane' by itself is significant that the road you are on should be obvious, directional, and unmistakeable.  I believe the draw bridge onto Sullivan Island fits this bill.  (No turning arouind once you get started) 'Two twenty two" by itself is also significant.  It recomfirms that you were on the right lane.  The road onto Sullivan Island from the draw bridge is 'Station twenty two' and just a street in when you are forced to bear right, you are confronted with 'Station twenty two 1/2' So there in fact, from the proper 'Lane' you are on twenty-two and then when you ask yourself, should I be going right?, you are confronted with the 'second' twenty-two.  Heading to Fort Moultrie.

Unknown: Can we determine which definition is used in The Secret from the "100 paces" distance mentioned in verse 8 for the Milwaukee, WI casque?  I know that one hasn't been found either, but most of the path for it was nailed down pretty well, so was that based on 5 foot or 2 1/2 foot long paces Welcome Thanar!  When I paced out the Milwaukee site it was just a regular walked off measurement around 2 1/2 ft per pace--if it helps.

Nice to have a new set of eyes around here Thanar..welcome to the Zoo (no wilhouse, not your zoo... hehehehehe)

Welcome! Glad you could join in the hunt! There's still one or two casques left, I think!

Hey all, I was thinking about how to link this image with a verse and as has already been mentioned with the casques that have been found V12 was linked to P5 with the statue of the indian riding the horse in the Picture with the line WHERE M AND B ARE SET IN STONE in the Verse.  And V4 was linked to P4 by the columns (although this could have also applied to P8).  Anyway, V5 talks about an arc of lights and if you look at P2 you can clearly see an arc of lights reflected in the eyes of the lion.  Perhaps it is a bit of a stretch but of all the images in the various pictures it is the only one where the eyes reflect something Just my two cents, digger7

Not a stretch digger, good observation. Matching the verses with the images (correctly) has I think made this set of puzzles delightful and frustrtaing.

sorry guys about not getting back sooner about my ideas but things got crazy around here. i only had a quick trip to charleston awhile back, and then most of my pictures are of my b/f's ancestors' houses, tho the trip was supposed to be for me! i still haven't reread my notes, but these ideas are still in my head. if this goes with verse 5 and fort moultrie: osceola --"the only standing member" at the fort--------osceola avenue poe--"a wingless bird ascended born of ancient dreams of flight" poe avenue both of these roads are right at the fort i don't like the word "paces" because it is so ambiguous, but there is a station "twelve" right beside the fort. here are some pictures: http://www.postyourimage.com/view_image ... 1201703480 oops "a" picture,  i'm having problems uploading, but will try again later, the road signs are all on upright white stone posts. i have a picture of osceola avenue, poe avenue, station 22, station 12, the grave surrounded by wroght iron, the arch of the doors and a hall way, i have other ideas if it goes with verse 6, which i like because of the "edwin and edwina" quote being about charleston

osceola avenue osceola grave station 12 poe avenue wind swept halls arch station 22

Please also keep in mind that a short road at the beach, east (?) of the Fort is " L'on Road"  (pronounced 'lion') It has been photographed and posted earlier. It is in direct proximity to the likely 'last standing memeber to the south'

yes i like that l'on avenue too, especially since the lion is such a big part of the image. i should have said sullivan's island instead of ft. moultrie. trying to get back into this charleston hunt, (sorry, forts just don't hold much interest for me, lol) one thing, if verse 6 instead of 5, i remembered out of all those guns and things, some are called parrot guns......wanted to keep that in mind for the part about "stand and listen to the birds"

if this image goes with verse 6, i like the area around the market hall "White house close at hand"--Edward Brickell White designed the Market Hall "Fair"---can be a gathering to promote business....you know, like a market the custom house and the and several theaters are here, dock street theater, used to be planters hotel, is where Booth(the elder) stayed when he played Othello in charleston

of course i'm getting verse 5 and 6 mixed up....i got all excited about Rainbow Market and Rainbow Row for "an arc of lights", it is up around the market hall.....still, something to keep in mind here's a picture: http://flickr.com/photos/strangelittleg ... 125130915/ The Brass Pirate store is there too........checking to see how long they've been there

this is interesting because of the "daisy" in the picture, and it's right around white point gardens If you walk a little further down South Battery, you'll be opposite the corner of Church Street. Note the house on the right. It's white with columns and was built as a wedding present in 1890. This is the "Villa Margherita," and it was built in the "Chicago Exposition Style" for a New Orleans belle by a Charlestonian named Andrew Simonds. Her name was Daisy, and the house was named in her honor. In 1909, and several husbands later, Daisy turned the house into an inn. It was run in great style by an extraordinary Charleston woman, Miss Leize Dawson. Some of the notables who graced the inn included Henry Ford, Alexander Graham Bell, Barbara Hutton and both Roosevelts. John F. Kennedy also lived in the area briefly during the Second World War. In the 1920s, they served a soup called diamondback terrapin, or turtle soup, which at the time went for $25 a bowl. The Villa Margherita also boasts South Carolina's first indoor swimming pool, located in the atrium. In the peak of the spring season the Villa rented guest rooms in the surrounding neighborhood. That was the beginning of the Bed and Breakfast practice in Charleston. Many a household paid its taxes on the proceeds.

Slappy, did you at any time find an anchor? especially one which might have been raised UP on the side of a house or building, or a pole, or statue's base? The reason I'm asking is this: " beneath the long palm's shadow" . The 'points' on an anchor are called palms. On some anchors, one of the palms will be longer than the other. I thought maybe there might be a visible anchor somewhere where the sun could shine on it, and create a shadow beneath the 'long palm.'

ck, no it was a not so great trip, lol.  my b/f had left his credit card at a restaurant near myrtle beach on the way to charleston. (we didn't know, of course, until we got to charleston)  we called the restaurant and they would hold the card, but the next day was a holiday and some places were closed, and what with him worrying about that..... i had like a day and a half to see ft. moultrie, white point gardens and ft. sumter and downtown charleston and see all the houses and churches that his family had lived and preached and the aquarium.  so it was  like,  click click click (pictures) and move on to the next,  lol plus, he has no interests in a treasure hunt! strange person huh? i remember your posting that about the anchors, i will start research on that as i research all these areas, ok? (taking a break from boston OR canada ) i do have some pictures of washington square because i was interested in the "4 corners of the law" downtown, but they aren't great and my white point gardens pictures would probably just be doubles of cthree's.  i took some of "liberty square" also, which is right there where you take the boat to ft. sumter. which reminds me, "fair" could also mean "square" ........like, fair and square,

when i look at the map someone posted of the silas pearman bridge, they have patriot's point right after the pear but when i look at it i see the dancer girl, top half around mount pleasant, so the bottom half is patriot's point, and the limbs coming down pointing to sullivan's island and isle of palms. am i looking at it wrong? i also thought of drum island because of the dancer girl but i believe i read it is unihabitable.

slappybuns wrote:: when i look at the map someone posted of the silas pearman bridge, they have patriot's point right after the pear but when i look at it i see the dancer girl, top half around mount pleasant, so the bottom half is patriot's point, and the limbs coming down pointing to sullivan's island and isle of palms. am i looking at it wrong? i also thought of drum island because of the dancer girl but i believe i read it is unihabitable. you are reading the map correctly. The mask is representative of Fort Sumpter.

thanks trohn i'm still jumping around all over, but look at these masks on king street in some parlor...i think it is up there around marion square park i'm not sure if the right side is a reflection or what but it looks like a skull. http://flickr.com/photos/bigstimuli/352 ... otostream/

Trohn wrote:: you are reading the map correctly. The mask is representative of Fort Sumpter. Kinda like the map thing.  Looks alot like some of digger's ideas on the "Possible Clues" thread.  The limbs pointing down to the jewel.  Sullivan's Island.  Can we nail the darn verse now?  WTF?

I really like this one. I found this prominant fountain in Charleston. I believe it is the solve for the pine branch and the pear (apple family) in the image, thus "pine"-"apple". You can find many more and probably better pictures than this one online.

Erm....the apple AND the pear are members of the rose family. The pear is not a member of the "apple family."  And what about the Pear man bridge???? Besides...this fountain is in Waterfront park, and that park wasn't opened until 1990. Boy, you know...I'm not the one to ever think that new ideas are bad or wrong on this forum---and I'll be the first one to champion anyone who comes up with one. But some of the ideas you've presented are just--well--arbitrary.  The solves for Charleston and Boston are so solid, why deconstruct them to make the rest fit? I see you both have done a huge amount of work on this, for which I applaud you--yet I find so much of what you've shown to be forced or ignored--or both. I wish I could say I thought you had really solved the book--but I don't think there is a formula at all. It's all too pat. But hey---if you are right, even if you're right about some of it, then good for you!

Shecrab, As much as I want a casque to be in Boston, I am not convinced by most of the evidence so far.  I believe: Th. and Xenophon are there (but maybe not oriented correctly, a concern); 42 on the wristband.  The Paul Revere reference 18th day, 12th hour (which must be a double clue giving more information about the exact spot to dig somehow...)  The rest is unconvining.

Oh, I believe that most of the evidence points to Boston--that isn't a problem for me at all. What is, is the exact location of the casque. Though there is a lot of matching imagery in Copley Square, I have a very hard time believing that Copley is the location because there just isn't a lot of area in which one might bury a casque. However, I do believe the casque could be in the North End--where "all the letters are there to see" (the street names--A St., B St., etc.) and where Black Falcon Ave. is at the waterfront. I think the evidence points at Boston--in fact, of all the locations mentioned, this is one of the few that has a solid connection for me. I am curious as to what you don't agree with, though, Rihel--can you elaborate?

Shecrab, I have added some comments on this to image 11, where it fits better, but I will elaborate here. The street names as letters and the Falcon are in the South End, not the North End, isn't it?  Regardless, I'm just pointing out that I can find similar vague clues in almost any city in America.  Lettered streets in New York City, Washington DC, just to name 2, and I can play the same game with every image clue so far, I can find a globe/ball/sphere in many cities, and I can find a falcon/hawk/bird of prey reference in most cities as well. Contrast those clues with the wall and columns in the Grecian Cultural Garden, or the Milwaukee building (and Milwaukee rebus), or the water tower in Chicago, or the map of Charleston, S.C. in the skull.  Those unambiguously place casques in those cities.  I mean, these seem so spot on to me that if you showed them to one of your friends who think that this whole treasure hunting hobby is nutty, they would have to agree that the match is real, and maybe they would even search themselves for more clues.  But, just for a sobering experience, take image 11, and start showing a friend, while explaining, "See, there is a globe, for Boston Globe, and there is a falcon, for Black Falcon, and there is a T, for the subway, and there is a castle-- Castle Island, and there is a 42, and if you look cross-eyed, you can see a 71, and her hair kind of looks like the outline of the wharfs in the city....."  I tried this and my friend commented that it reminded her of the scene in A Beautiful Mind, when Nash was seeing patterns in magazines. But, when I show her the picture of the wall in Cleveland and the image in the book, she says, "No question."  Same for Milwaukee. And the detail in that Charleston map is also pretty striking. Now, it may turn out that all of these vague clues are "confirmers" for a Boston location, but without the real solid stuff, I am worried that we might be "digging in the wrong place!" That's all I meant.  We have to put all our assumptions under scrutiny until we hit the jackpot clue.

message deleted...reposted under "Image 11".

shecrab wrote:: Erm....the apple AND the pear are members of the rose family. The pear is not a member of the "apple family."  And what about the Pear man bridge???? Besides...this fountain is in Waterfront park, and that park wasn't opened until 1990. Thanks for clearing up the apple/ pear family relation. What I was trying to point out is I think it is enough that they are in the same family. Good find Shecrab on the Pineapple Fountain built in 1990. Did you find anything on why they chose a pinapple in your search? Seems like a curious choice.

The pineapple is a symbol of hospitality in Colonial America. You see the motif repeated in many ways--if you crochet, you'll know the famous "Pineapple" doilies; if you look at early American fabrics and prints, you'll see pineapples depicted; if you look at decorative motifs on furniture (esp. the legs and pedestals of tables) you'll see pineapples carved in the wood.

Wow...never saw this message before when preparing to post here: "Warning: this topic has not been posted in for at least 120 days. Unless you're sure you want to reply, please consider starting a new topic. " I can't believe P2 thread had made it all the way to page 3 of the threads.  Was just browsing pictures of White Point Gardens and came accross the gazebo that many have mentioned. http://flickr.com/photos/13453262@N03/2246137271/ I always wondered about the eye shapes on the mask w/ map head and always thought there was a pronounced "h" or "n" utilizing the left eye.  Could that extension upwards between the eyes simply be the extended molding between the arches of the gazebo? *one thing I find kind of funny is that any house/home/abode/etc..w/in this park, regardless of it's color, could be considered a "White house".

fox not sure why we would need to start another topic on p-2 ............... but as far as the eyes not sure it was mentioned, they look like bolts that uses a flat headed screwdriver and the mouth looks,  like a white picket fence with 2 something at the ends, and a path maybe for the bar, at the bottom of mouth, then there is the red, white, blue, bars and the star, says flag,american, something maybe a monument, with a flag on it bolts, bars, star, fence, maybe if you were standing there it would make sense

Didn't start a new topic on P2...I just moved it up since we may want to start looking this over again with the location of the correct V.

One more vote for I2 being Charleston SC The shadow on the right side of the lion's forhead... http://www.kickoffzone.com/articles/ima ... _Logo1.jpg If you google map Charleston SC and hit satelite then look at fort Sumpter you can even see the flagpole in the middle of the perfectly shaped fort. The Shadow on the map part of the mask is very similar to the outline shape of the lighthouse on Sullivan's Island. The bronzed skin butterfly lady is wearing a bikini of sorts appropriate for being at the beach and if you put her wings together you should see a clear symbol of a sea turtle.

http://im1.shutterfly.com/procgtaserv/4 ... 2bJo0ZM2Xg

Hmmm... too quiet here.

The day before yesterday, while searching for puzzles to solve (a hobby), I came across a blurb on the book The Secret and was instantly intrigued by the whole story and the fact that most of the "treasure" remains undiscovered. I couldn't resist joining the hunt, so I located scans of the images from the book and decided to try my hand at "decoding" one. I started by listing the main objects visible in the selected image. Then I thought of the larger context (be it cultural, scientific, etc.) of said object and looked for hidden clues in/on the object. I asked silly questions like "What is this object? What do I know about objects of this type?" Repeating this exercise gave me a handy chart to "add up" the various clues and a "solution". I chose Image 2 because it seems to picture "tribal" masks or woodcarvings and a (African) lion. (I'd just re-watched The Ghost and the Darkness recently, so my mind was still on Africa.) I played around and came up with my own conclusions about what the image foretold, but I still had a certain questions and doubts. So after some online searching I found this site, registered, waited to be approved, and now after having waded through all the posts pertaining to this image, I thought I would share a few highlights from my conclusion not yet mentioned (or so I recall). Image Location Highlights : Aside: In addition to being the birth flower for the month of April, the daisy flower attracts butterflies (in gardens) and there is a "butterfly" hovering near (what I think is an) Oxeye daisy in the picture. Aside: On the scanned image which I downloaded the bars on the pentagonal mask ornament look "red, white, and blue", couple this with the white star on the mask's other cheek and I immediately thought of the "star(s) and bars" (or the Stars and Bars flag, which was the 1st national flag of the Confederacy). This flag (with three big stripes and 7 stars) first flew over Fort Sumter in Charleston Harbor, SC in 1861. Aside: The pear (unlike the Fort Sumter mask ornament) is not just hanging on the tree branch, it is literally attached by its stem or grafted. A graft is a man-made, physical joining of two separate segments, just as a bridge functions on a roadway; a branch is also defined as a road or way. Thus pear graft = pear bridge = Silas N. Pearman Bridge in Charleston. Before it was blown up at least. Each "level" of the image's deconstruction focuses on a map, and each subsequent map is a "zoom-in" view of the previous one until finally one reaches the final destination (the park). a) The "etched" map of the South Carolina coastline at Charleston on the tribal skull; b) The close-up of a distended Charleston peninsula  (I think) as a "birthmark" on the lion's forehead; c) The street-ways map from the grafted pear (Pearman Bridge) over the moth/butterfly wings (peninsula sand bars) to points beyond (Sullivan's Island); d) and finally the outline of Fort Moultrie itself as a "blotch" on the lion's right cheek. By following the progression of visual maps it is "impossible" to arrive anywhere else besides Fort Moultrie (even without the longitude and latitude clues). Verse Collusion Highlights: I too, paired Image 2 with Verse 5. Initially, because of the obvious Charleston reference (i.e., the best known "citadel" in the USA is located in Charleston, SC). However, the phrase "Citadel in the night" was the first of what I call a 'double clue' reference. It could be a literal reference to the Citadel (citadel.edu) or it could also reference Fort Moultrie (a fort can be thought of as a "citadel" or fortress -- not all citadels are forts, but forts can be citadels). Considering that the Citadel is located on Moultrie Street, it may very well reference both. The second possible "double clue" in the verse is the line "a wingless bird ascended". The phrase "wingless bird" has been prominently used as a metaphor for at least two man-made creations that I could find easily (in addition to the wingless birds of natural occurrence); the first of these man-made creations is a literary device, the second is the hydraulic elevator. The famous British writer Coleridge describes poetical prose as a wingless bird ("a metaphysical Bustard"). [Reference: Such Rare Citings , the first full-length account of the British prose poem, its history, and status as a genre, by Nikki Santilli. p 215. http://books.google.com/books?id=Ra0LQ9xpe6oC ] There is also at least one book and poem with similar title. Taking all this into consideration, it is interesting (but not conclusive) that Poe's "wingless bird" (The Gold Bug) "ascended" (was written, created, dreamed up, took flight) at Fort Moultrie in the 1880s. I found the more likely reference to be an hydraulic elevator. When the hydraulic elevator was first introduced several news stories of the day used this specific phrase "The upward flight of the great wingless bird" to refer to the contraption. Such as: Harper's New Monthly Magazine . Published by Harper & Brothers, 1882 Item notes: v.65 [ http://books.google.com/books?id=SsoaAA ... #PPA893,M1 ] And there's even a retrospective on the hydraulic elevator which refers to it as "a wingless bird" in the title, so the terminology would seem to be an acknowledged descriptor. Thus we have the Sullivan's Island lighthouse (officially called Charleston Light), the last lighthouse built by the U.S. Coast Guard (1962). The Charleston Light is unique: it's the only three-sided lighthouse; it's the only lighthouse in the USA with siding; and it's the only lighthouse in the USA, (and possibly the world), that has an elevator. [ http://www.charleston.net/news/2008/sep ... r_mo54218/ ] I will end by saying that I also believe the casque in question is most likely located beneath a tree at Fort Moultrie National Monument on Sullivan's Island, SC and that in all probability it cannot be retrieved (due to the NPS regs). Boy is this a disappointment! PS If I've repeated anything, just consider it summarization and "expoundering." Please forgive the extra-long first post....

nice post unschliemann! that is interesting about the lighthouse and the elevator, i'd never heard that b4. are u gonna go hunting? i've been there for a quick run thru of the places mentioned, well, some of them, and i've seen that lighthouse, i don't see how it could hurt anything there, so i would ask someone there at the fort who'd u 'd need permission or how to go about getting permission.  i hope you're going hunting, we need more hunters

nice post unschliemann and welcome to the hunt

cw0909 wrote:: nice post unschliemann and welcome to the hunt Yes indeed....welcome to the madhouse uns... Stock up on those aspirins my friend.

unschliemann wrote:: Aside: On the scanned image which I downloaded the bars on the pentagonal mask ornament look "red, white, and blue", couple this with the white star on the mask's other cheek excellent first post, welcome to the hunt I agree with you that the middle bar and the star look white on the scanned image but on the original they are both yellow......sort of a cream color actually.  At least that is how they look to me.

i always thought the bar white and star cream color, in the original and wondered if that had some meaning to it , that i couldnt figure out

Thanks for welcoming me to the fold, everyone! I'm glad to have found this place. One might ask, what color/s are the star and bars, actually? Part of the problem with image reproduction is the "smudging" of chroma. Then, of course, the human eye (via the brain) is known to "fill in blanks" based upon what one expects to see. We can only guess what the artist intended to convey, if anything, by use of a specific color. Either way, it was funny to me that one of my first reactions to the image (prior even to my recognizing the Charleston, SC coastline map on the tribal skull) led me right to Ft. Sumter. The mind is a "terrible" thing...

i've been rereading this thread,  unschliemann and i saw where ravel07 had mentioned that elevator b4, i just didn't remember it. but since i reread all this, i have lots of new ideas to add what with my studying the fair folks, i do think they are just generalizations, this image is the african image, and only 2 of the fair folks go with specifically with this one ( i think).......the GARDENgoyle[b] [/b]: HOUSEHOLD, and the BOOGIE MAN[b] [/b], CULTURALl...................the spirit of '76-POLITICAL, jack b. nimbus-ENVIRONMENTAL and chicago world's fairy-rREGIONAL, go with all of the images (if i recall) i like white point gardens ,  because it' s (duh) a garden and cultural and i like the white points on the butterfly girl notes from "the gardengoyle": garden, sand, (sandlapper statue) (Saharan, serengeti desert), abiding taste for water (fountain), large frisky green spirit resembling an ambulatory shock of corn,, small withered brownish rust slighted ambulatory to me meant laying down, but it means able to move around.........like the parrot guns? it also means a place for cover out of the weather i think (the gazebo) notes from "the boogie man": music, dances, black, tan and blue, lion's pride (image, king street), "shines on the wings of a jungle bird" made me think of the parrot guns,, middle class defectors (stede bonnet, gentleman pirate)looking to score on a credit plan, making beauty out of junk (the capstan? , or the guns?) ,he’s still getting down, when youre getting up ....sundial, morning hours?  2 white puppets trying to dance in too tight (the defender's monument) another idea i had for "Fair" was like "fair weather". (jack b. nimbus)...for the sundial, hmm and the shadow would move and then usually in poetry, "Fair" is usually talking about a woman and that defender's monument with the shields (looks like the circles in the image to me) has the state seal, with the lady representing charleston and "hope" (spirit of '76 mentions hope also). the lady seems to be "hanging" out of nowhere.........(pirates were hung) limbs, arms (between two arms), tree limbs, or statues' arms or legs, or the military arms (cthree's munitions) (in the image the lady's arms are crossed) jambone found "below the bar that binds", homer, about achille's "heel", a statue's heel, or ..........maybe just the sandbar i saw someone's picture where at the base of the hunley, had scrollwork like the butterfly lady's hair captain flint from treasure island.....capstan, lol simms wrote the Cassique of Kiawah" , looks mighty close to "casque", couldn't find out what it meant one of cthree's pictures had bricks with state names in it....was washington, dc in one of the bricks?  like for, "white house"? sorry, my notes are so jumbled, most of this is not new, most came from cthree's posts and everyone else's, i think forest_blights find about edward blyden, is just pertaining to charleston (on one of the statues?) cthree said the "hunley" said something about the 8th. anyway, hope you guys are still looking here

slappy found this in reference to simms wrote the Cassique of Kiawah", looks mighty close to "casque", couldn't find out what it meant this is all i good get, second paragraph http://books.google.com/books?id=128X55 ... &ct=result and the golf course http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=n ... +of+Kiawah

does it mean chief cw? the bust of simms is in white point gardens, that's why i mentioned him.  i looked through so many pictures, mostly, cthree's, cedarcell's,  and forest_blight's i think.  i was trying to find something from verse 6 to fit, ...........and to see if there was any merit to studying the fair people http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... f533de0874 forest_blight's picture of pirate's: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 3633hzSGsQ "just deserts".........which could be "deserts" like saharan and serengeti...........doesn't this sound like the wordplay BP would have used? cedarcell's hunley fountain: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359KzjRve "abiding taste for water" cthree's pics" http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516Evwswu is washington, dc one of these?...........and is it close to the pirate memorial? cthree's pics" http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516qTWxLz defenders slit in gazebo: http://flickr.com/photos/13453262@N03/2246137271/ cthree's sandlapper: http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516eVcMgF i was thinking this was the clubfoot from the boogie man.........but now i'm thinking,  foot......square ("clubfoot set so square") cthree's sundial: http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1158 ... 4516VPPbnP cedarcell's base of hunley: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359jyKbjc the lady's hair cedarcells water meter covers: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359JwCArz cedarcell's sumter memorial: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359SgtTtm http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359fwQWyG and another one: http://flickr.com/photos/badbadivy/190419838/ cedarcell' arm extended: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/14 ... 2359IjFexK forest_blight's: http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/29 ... 3633uqfzBi you know, fort sumter is just "hanging" by a rope (in the image) ( a reference to the pirate memorial?)...........i'm leaning to the pirate's memorial because our lady (in the image)  is just HANGING THERE, OUT ON A LIMB! ............

cthree said this long ago, talking about the mask in the image: Cthree’s: "Fang Ngil type.--this applies of course to the african theme but keep in mind that this mask signified a judicial responsibility" justice was carried out by hanging.... so.............what do you guys think???

does it mean chief cw? no i dont think so, just a literary use of the word, to describe the human spirit maybe it is a clue to s.c. as simms wrote the book, about mans new ideas for the new world, yet he was carrying, his same old immorals to carolina, through the use of slavery. the book is about what went on in carolina. this link describes the book http://books.google.com/books?id=128X55 ... t#PPA13,M1 the pirate's link, made me chuckle as my last name is worley, and their are and were, several richards no one ever mentioned,  pirate's though in our history, will have to check that again, as the worleys came out of the carolinas http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 3633hzSGsQ

lol, cw................it must be your relatives!  you're still a treasure hunter! that's interesting about the "human spirit" to me.......in the boogieman, it talks about a spirit........i had just liked the word cassique......

another reference to cassique http://books.google.com/books?id=qp0KAA ... A72-IA1,M1 v-6 to this pic if i rememeber right Simms, William Gilmore, 1806–70, American novelist, b. Charleston, S.C. He wrote prolifically, both prose and poetry, but it is for his historical romances about his own state that he is remembered Simms, William Gilmore (1806–70) writer; born in Charleston, N.C. After the death of his mother (1808), he was raised by his maternal grandmother and schooled locally. He was admitted to the bar (1827), but spent his time writing poetry and working as an editor in Charleston. He became a prolific writer of historical romances, notably The Yamassee: A Romance of Carolina (1835). link for above http://encyclopedia2.thefreedictionary. ... am+Gilmore have not read The Yemassee yet it may have a line from v-6, will check yep i guess treasure hunting is in the blood.....lol

does it mean chief cw? it could if you spell it dif like this, pronounced the same ca·cique (k-sk) n. 1. An Indian chief, especially in the Spanish West Indies and other parts of Latin America during colonial and postcolonial times. 2. A local political boss in Spain or Latin America. American Spanish, from Arawak kassequa, chieftain.] http://www.thefreedictionary.com/cacique

wow cw, you are good at research!  but i'm not sure if any of that is shown on the monument of him, just when i did a quick search on him i had seen that word and it caught my eye, lol. there might be something with simms that goes with "the boogieman" about the grandfatherly spirt, truth seeker and dreamer, or something like that, no time to check exact words...i know all that makes u think of martin luther king or sojourner truth..but remember, i think all the guide does is general and maybe wordplay (or, i'm hoping or thinking, just maybe small hints) i found out that olmsted did design white point gardens: http://flickr.com/photos/hdescopeland/3010023874/ but i'm going to concentrate on looking for the "edwin and edwina named after him" part.  maybe on one of the crew lists on the memorials, maybe there is someone named AFTER edward, or edwina. the only thing so far with edward, is knowing that stede bonnet joined blackbeard (edward teach), which still makes me think of " the long arm of the law , which could go with "below the bar that binds" and "beside the " long palm's shadow and there was a captain edward anderson i read about, but not sure if he is mentioned on one of the war memorials. i have got to go back and look at the crew lists pictures, not much time today, but still convinced it has something to do by the pirates monument, with the hanging of ft. sumter, she's hanging on a limb, and now the "long arm" of the law.........and the " bar exam for justice,

slappybuns wrote:: "beside the " long palm's shadow Nothing terribly important to share but I just came up with another odd idea after reading the part of your post I quoted above.  Where ever this quote leads us, is it possible that instead of a tree {palm}, we are looking for a person?  Is there a statue of a person named 'Long' at any of our possible sites?  I understand that technically, for this theory to work, the word long would be capitalized to show a name and would also be possessive as in:  Long's palm shadow... but it could still work.  Look for the statue of Long and use the shadow of his hand {palm}.  We would still have the problem of searching at a specific time of day allowing us the correct shadow placement.  That fact alone leads me to believe we are probably not working with a real 'shadow' in the first place but thought I would ramble on anyways.

that is great fox! haven't gotten to the list of names yet on those memorials.  i will look for anyone named edward,edwin, long, palm, and even shadow, lol. but i did find these two photos of the flagpole, they seem to be in different places to me, and if a flag had the flag of south carolina, it would be a "long" (as in tall) , palm (the palm tree on the flag), and a shadow http://flickr.com/photos/hdescopeland/2 ... 7/sizes/o/ (i think that's a flagpole) http://flickr.com/photos/16451098@N04/2 ... 783351779/ this one is between "two arms".....(guns or whatever ) http://www.50states.com/flag/scflag.htm and after reading it like that.........long palm shadow...............lol, long john silver (the pirate in treasure island!) another thought with the flag........you always "stand" up