Quest4Treasure Archives

WhiteRabbit wrote:: This white stone thing, close to St Mary, Stella Maris, at the junction of Station Twelve St ("at 12") and Osceola ("at twelve paces", duellist), also confirmed by 12 and 04 on the clock (it's 1204 Middle St) and star. Trail begins with a lighthouse and ends at Stella Maris, the beginning and ending tied up by the "star of the sea" theme. From the west side Get permission To dig out. Casque is buried on the west side (where those wires are), "permission" probably being a pun on "by mission" (church) or something. WGS1984 means coors valid until 2010

Is that it? Genius! How did you find it?

erexere wrote:: I plugged in the sun position for May 1st (Historical Memorial Day) in 1980 at 4pm and the shadow on the smaller lighthouse lands across the path about 50 feet from the center of the structure.  Not sure about any of this, but I thought it looked similar to the 4pm on the sumter-clock I think the eye slits in the Sumter clock are telling us we are looking in the direction of the suns path, squinting from brightness, as we wait for the lighthouse shadow to reach our feet, standing on top of where the cask is buried.

Reviewing my data I mde a mistake as I often do.  If the sun is at an angle of 85 degrees then the shadow of the 65 foot tall lighthouse is only about 6 feet.  That's a 4pm shadow.

I think the house all the way in the right corner might be the point of interest here, white house close at hand, I just read that the 65 foot tall lighthouse was 87 feet but the optic removed for the other lighthouse. I still very much like the eight sided building as "on the eighth a scene". The story about the keeper there goes that he murdered his wife, but only confessed on his death bed years later.  It was claimed to be a suicide at the time of her death.  I wonder if there is room here for an interpretation of "Fair remuneration" as the end of the keeper's life was fair compensation for his actions.

Another white house next to an anchor at the McClellanville Museum.

This is cool, http://www.postandcourier.com/photos/ga ... ses/30653/

Unknown: The first shots of the Civil War were fired at Fort Sumter in Charleston harbor just south of the Cape Romain light. Shortly after the start of the war confederate troops extinquished the light and removed the lens to prevent it's use by Union forces. As far as a civil war reference to the Light houses, "Where Law Defended", I get: This area is just about 40 miles northeast of Charleston at 33.017948N 79.3732166W

Spent most of the day thinking on this image.  The thing that works most for me is that Lions and Lighthouses both have keepers.  The other angle is the suicide spiral of a moth.  I have the Polyphemus - cyclops - lighthouse connection pretty much set in my mind.  The keeper of Cape Romain used suicide as the excuse for his wife's death.  Twins Cain and Abel - I'm not my brothers keeper - twins Edwin and Edwina ("a-twin and a-twin-a"), I think connects us strongly to the twin lighthouses near Charleston.

Doing the math on the clock angle needed some extra care, since the hour and minute hands move at different rates.  The idea of 1913 being the military time version of 7:13 is very interesting since the Sumter clock reads a time of just about 4 o'clock.  The angle of the arms at 7:13 is 138.5 degrees with respect to each other.  The clock time where the same angle is reached and the hour hand is nearest the 4 o'clock mark is between 3:56 and 3:57.  This looks nearly undisputable as a point to consider.  Verse goes with image.  138.5 degrees may be related to a sun position for the shadow we are looking for. I've included the length of the distance to the other lighthouse.  It looks like BP must've wanted to choose a time that fits the shadow length of the same distance.  Pretty cool. I didn't expect it to look like that or go in that direction.  I worked out everything under some distraction and haven't double checked my work.  I did think it through carefully before I started plugging in numbers.  Here is my accounting: Used May 1st 1980, 15:56 (almost 4pm) as my solar reference. Used 37 degree elevation, 265 degrees. Used taller lighthouse for the shadow based on the line 'between two arms extended'. Shadow length is about 200ft and that happens to be the distance between lighthouses, perhaps that coincidence lends some sense to this particular setup. Apparently the corner of a house or whats left of it is at this position. Looks like that is the 'white house at hand'.  The spot looks like it may have been right at the outside corner of the white picket fence.

Using somethings shadow to pinpoint a dig location is a little ridiculous I think.  That means that there would be only ONE day per year to dig the thing up.  Not buying it.

fox wrote:: Using somethings shadow to pinpoint a dig location is a little ridiculous I think.  That means that there would be only ONE day per year to dig the thing up.  Not buying it. Good point, but it isn't necessarily the pinpoint mechanism.  I think it is designed to narrow it down to that fence corner.  We can use any day of May in any year and have a twenty foot (im estimating) diameter circle based on the 4pm sun position.  Also, it's not based on having to be there at the time the shadow is there, it requires only a farmers almanac a pencil, and a compass would be most helpful, then you can go there any day any time. Its the fence corner.  This is looking a lot like the Chicago dig at this point...ten by thirteen sound familiar? But look at this site...it has just two short tour windows a year, mid spring and fall and it is one heck of a gnarly looking area.  Not looking fun.

Why do you think the sun's shadow has anything to do with it at all?

bigmattyh wrote:: Why do you think the sun's shadow has anything to do with it at all? The outline of a tower structure over the Charleston map and the sphere shape to the upper left of that.

So sphere = sun?

Unknown: The first known observance of a Memorial Day-type observance was in Charleston, South Carolina on May 1, 1865; freedmen (freed slaves) commemorated and celebrated at the Washington Race Course, today the location of Hampton Park. 257 Union soldiers had been buried there, and the freedmen labeled the gravesite "Martyrs of the Race Course". Yes, it's really a guess or gut feeling on this one, but the logistics and end product really look good. I just completed the math on the problem of how much variation you get depending on if you choose May 1st or May 31st and it ends up being about a 25 foot diameter circle.  There has to be some accounting for error at 200ft distance, which is why the fence corner works so well.  Also, someone might've used any old day in May, but I chose May 1st because of it's historical importance to Charleston being the original Memorial Day date. From wikipedia "Memorial Day" I just double checked my work and ended up using some more precise numbers and correctly used the 264.9 degree angle.  This is Wikimapia telling me the distance, I'd rather do this on the ground with a compass.  Here is 220 feet this time.  It has to be there, or it's by the corner of where signs of a fence were.

erexere wrote:: I just completed the math on the problem of how much variation you get depending on if you choose May 1st or May 31st and it ends up being about a 25 foot diameter circle.  There has to be some accounting for error at 200ft distance, which is why the fence corner works so well.  Also, someone might've used any old day in May, but I chose May 1st because of it's historical importance to Charleston being the original Memorial Day date. From wikipedia "Memorial Day" I just double checked my work and ended up using some more precise numbers and correctly used the 264.9 degree angle.  This is Wikimapia telling me the distance, I'd rather do this on the ground with a compass.  Here is 220 feet this time.  It has to be there, or it's by the corner of where signs of a fence were. I do not have my book with me but I am sure it says, like all other hunts I have worked on, that even a child could solve this.

It says that: "If Man is good, and kind, and playful, he and she will find them."

As an exercise I just learned how to apply the solar chart method to any specific spot or distance where a shadow could fall.  Its not math.  I just look at the tables and charts that are already plotted out.  I'm really thinking it will be worth it to purchase a 1980 Farmers Almanac, just to see what BP mightve used. Whether or not this method was used, it's real fun practicing its application.  More hunts should use it.

fox wrote:: Using somethings shadow to pinpoint a dig location is a little ridiculous I think.  That means that there would be only ONE day per year to dig the thing up.  Not buying it. But that was the solution to the original Masquerade. However, Preiss may have not known that when he created this hunt.

Im not that familiar with masquerade.  Was the idea to use sun position in that hunt obvious and the trick more about finding where to apply it? Attn, fox, and all, I know my presentation and process in handling this is non-traditional or flawed for abandoning the recommended background information.  I hope I'm at least right in my approach and if there are mistakes that they are only in the execution. My math is terribly sloppy these days.  With the clock-angle problem, I didn't catch at first that angle changes with both hands at different rates.  Maybe it sounds simple, maybe it's not, my brain was spinning just thinking about some interesting angle-time problems.  Anyways, not trying to sound defensive, it's great that I'm at least in a 33/79 lat/long vicinity. With the construction of this problem, theme lends a hand in putting my focus on "eyes of old", and then Cyclops, and then lighthouse, combined with twins, and the image clue with sphere and outline supplies me with a sun/shadow type of problem.  Anyone setting up this kind of problem would know there is lots of variation and dependency with the process.  The Sun might seem fickle, but light never lies.  And if you are going to argue that light doesn't always follow a straight line then you're going to bring up more complicated mechanics than this hunt is concerned with, like gravity and curved space.  If you don't like the Sun problem and you just make a really simplifying assumption that "between two arms extended" and the fraternal twins is just your left and right arm of equal length.  Follow a line that bisects the two lighthouses and look for a reasonable point...then you might find the fence corner where the tall lighthouse to the left is at the same distance from the shorter lighthouse to the right.  It's at least an isosceles if not an equalateral triangle.  I expect something at that point confirms in the image...but I don't know for sure what buildings were standing 30 years ago.  This place has gone straight from seed to jungle. Reengineering the problem from this fence corner gives me a specific angle and distance from the tall lighthouse.  Looking that up in the Farmer's Almanac (now don't even try to argue that is an obscure book...and if you've never bought one yourself, don't bother complaining about me not yet purchasing The Secret -I'm buying both actually) tells us a specific time and date...19:13 is the Sunset on May 17th for which the distance from lighthouse describes an angle consistent with the Sun's elevation.  The perfect execution of this selection of coordinates is very noticeable as intentional and therefore something BP mustve been proud about.  See for yourself. I've convinced myself after double and triple checking that the fence corner might not be the spot.  My latest image choice shares a much more accurate spot consistent with an equilateral triangle.  If it is at the fence post than "eye-saw-sol-ease" it is...ooh, that's a nasty little phonic-pun.

Required reading for *every* armchair treasure hunter: 1. Masquerade (Kit Williams) 2. Masquerade: The complete Book With the Answer Explained (Kit Williams) 3. Quest for the Golden Hare (Bamber Gascoigne) In that order.

I was wondering, are you implying that BP wouldn't have this method because it predates the solution to Masquerade?  I personally wasn't claiming he had taken his inspiration from Masquerade.  Have I made it look like he reinvented the wheel? I explored the biblical idea a little more with brothers keeper.  I wonder if that is a mark of the cross on the lion for this symbolism for Cain and Abel.  The basic idea of deciding how to divide a piece of property seems to work well in this scenario, hence finding the line that is equidistant to both lighthouses. Another notion I wondered about was the concept of Justice, "where law defended".  Plato's Republic delves into this rich topic with its own pair of brothers. I wonder if there is a reasoning here to utilize one of the five platonic solids as a geometric method to find the casque based on the two lighthouses.  The octahedral shape has eight sides and uses regular equalateral triangles for faces.  One strong push along these lines comes from the "mouth" with teeth on the Sumter-clock.  I found a close visual match to it a historical building called the Whalehead Club of Currituck.  It was in a severe state of neglect back in 1980, but I can totally see BP scouting it out for this hunt.  Thinking of that building as a 3-D solid and then seeing how it has been flattened into a 2-D shape with triangles around a rectangle is EXACTLY the model to apply here: Use the distance between the lighthouses as the side length 's' of a square. Perceive each lighthouse as the two adjacent sides also of length 's'.  it connects in the sky to complete the square. Use that square to connect equal triangles to all the orthogonal points and you have a an octahedron.  The next step is laying that solid flat, 2-D style, and seeing where a triangle meets near a white house. This solution doesn't use the Sun method.  Just make an eight sided solid lay flat on its face and find the point.

erexere wrote:: I was wondering, are you implying that BP wouldn't have this method because it predates the solution to Masquerade? If you like, I will imply that he wouldnt use this method-- because it doesnt match the other two solved puzzles. and while I beleive there is room for variance in the solutions, I am sure that the general methodology is the same from casque to casque

maltedfalcon wrote:: I am sure that the general methodology is the same from casque to casque I very much agree with this. This has been an exceptionally stubborn hunt.  Naturally, people are going to get more and more creative with their proposed methodology as time goes on and the casques get less and less likely to be recovered.  But if your methodology isn't very similar to the Chicago and Cleveland solves, you're very, very likely barking up the wrong tree (and seriously wasting your time).

if you wish to adopt a successful methodology you might have to expand your horizons. BP uses a triangle, a rectangle, a column in image 4.  How he uses a triangle might differ from casque to casque. I'm proposing BP uses a triangle face of an octahedron in image 2. Im wondering if image 5 used something of a spiral.

erexere wrote:: if you wish to adopt a successful methodology you might have to expand your horizons. BP uses a triangle, He used it to say Turn left at The Triangle, the name of a big shopping center. If the shopping center was named the Brontosaurus, he would have put a picture of a Brontosaurus in the image. he didnt use it for geometric or trigonometric plotting of a path. you are over thinking this.

I presented some simple ideas as well.  Looking at a situation that requires counting the same number of steps to converge on a point shouldnt be too difficult to understand. If theres a classic greek approach to one puzzle, why argue that there cant be one in another?

A predator behind a mask behind a spot-winged moth. Insects use a variety of defense mechanisms against predators.  Spots supposedly look like big eyes to help fend off predators.  This basically represents a disguise.  A mask is a disguise.  What kind of animals have disguises? Raccoons?  If this is simple enough logic, does it follow that BP is referring to the Cape Romain Lighthouses being built on the island named Raccoon Key (now known as Lighthouse Island)?

erexere wrote:: If theres a classic greek approach to one puzzle, why argue that there cant be one in another? well thats easy. each image has a different "nationality" because of where each tribe of fairys come from. did you read the book yet?

Maltedfalcon, you were suppose to recover a casque before I buy the book... Why, are you saying Egbert couldn't have found a casque with just image and verse alone? Your Brontasaurus comment was especially weak.  Either you have no appreciation for the Classical Greek world or you are a Paleontologist and you're implying that I should read the book to see the dinasaur connection... Yes, my analysis comes from just those two sources.  Are you willing to consider my verifiable results?  How much more air tight can it be to see the relationship between predator and prey, mask and face, military and time, zookeeper and lighthouse keeper, fraternal twin names and fratriciding children of Eve, an eight sided building and an eight sided platonic solid?  If 19:13 using the suns shadow didn't overlap precisely in May in the same area as described by a triangular face strictly defined by the "eyes of old" distance from each other, then I might not have believed in this myself.  We have the option to over think, but we also have the option to under think...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Is that it? Genius! How did you find it? Yes, that is it. The WWI/WWII Memorial. I cannot date it, however. Searching is fun . Let me know if you need more pics. Interestingly, the memorial is surrounded by utility boxes (all sides). You know how the green boxes usually say, "Call so and so before digging," just to check to see where lines are underneath so you don't cut them with a shovel? Get permission to dig?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Let me know if you need more pics. (Thanks - after learning what it was I found these ...now trying to contact someone on the island. I'm starting to suspect the difficulty of locating casques is nothing compared to the difficulty of trying to persuade someone to dig a hole...)

erexere wrote:: Maltedfalcon, you were suppose to recover a casque before I buy the book... Why, are you saying Egbert couldn't have found a casque with just image and verse alone? Your Brontasaurus comment was especially weak.  Either you have no appreciation for the Classical Greek world or you are a Paleontologist and you're implying that I should read the book to see the dinasaur connection... No problem -have arranged to dig again next month. No - BP said you just need  to use one image and one verse to find a casque. I was just saying the triangle was a simple landmark - nothing more. you did not need anything except the information in the image and verse. - remember he also said a child can solve these - and a child is not going to be versed in Trigonometry or projecting paths from shadows. the key to the solution is being familiar with the area the casque is hidden in. of course I will consider anything you come up with - you have put forth several really really good ideas.  at this point I am pretty sure you were the first person to suggest exactly where  I think the SF casque is.  So if two people independently come up with the same spot, its got a good chance.

you got me all riled up .. Username legionnaire posted first about that particular location in san francisco .

no I mean the exact spot -people including me have been trying out lincoln park/lands end for years... but without multiple site confirmers in the image, its just guessing. but you said "over by the tree" which is one of the dig spots I was considering, once I was on the site, I could see how much sense it made.

Unknown: - remember he also said a child can solve these - Actually, he didn't --that is not in the book.  It was, however, in Michael Stadther's books. Both of them. Turns out, however, that it wasn't true. No child actually DID solve either hunt, though one or two children helped their parents gather up the tokens in the first hunt.  The second hunt remains unsolved and unsatisfied, and if a child could solve it, it would have to be one very special child--with superpowers.

shecrab wrote:: Actually, he didn't --that is not in the book. I knew it wasnt in the book I thought he said either as a response to someones email or in one of his interviews. but I admit right now I can't find it. I thought it was when he said some are harder than others.

He never said a child could find them, to my knowledge--either in emails, on the forum or anywhere else. I dont think a child could find these. This was definitely a hunt made for someone who had the ability to reason out and solve more complex rebuses than what a child could, and what child would know the quotes from Moby Dick, or Stevenson, or the Sarmiento book? The only time I've ever read or heard that phrase was associated with Michael Stadther (who apparently has known some extremely "special" children.)

I don't get the impression this was designed for children. The phrase was also used to describe "The Merlin Mystery", which was unsolved. The solution , when published, was longer than War and Peace and made no sense at all.

I think the point is, that the solutions aren't meant to be very complex.  Meaning, keep it in the ballpark of the Chicago/Cleveland solutions.

bigmattyh wrote:: I think the point is, that the solutions aren't meant to be very complex.  Meaning, keep it in the ballpark of the Chicago/Cleveland solutions. I think that's fine and safe if you feel assured that the next solution will truly follow the same pattern.  We don't really know what's going on here.  One moment were playing T-ball, then it's kickball and pretty soon it's tackle football.

shecrab wrote:: Actually, he didn't --that is not in the book.  It was, however, in Michael Stadther's books. Both of them. Turns out, however, that it wasn't true. No child actually DID solve either hunt, though one or two children helped their parents gather up the tokens in the first hunt.  The second hunt remains unsolved and unsatisfied, and if a child could solve it, it would have to be one very special child--with superpowers. i dont want to get to O/T,but that Stadther,statement,and yours the very special child--with superpowers in the summer of 09,i meet a child that is a genius,and gave her the book of sad,she is in her freshman yr of college this yr,age 15,and still hasnt solved it, she is good in every subject,but loves math,i thought for sure she would solve it,so far no go,she did say that it might be a morse,but she hasnt found it yet go figure,IMO,its only simple if you know the answer,and im still looking LOL

erexere wrote:: I think that's fine and safe if you feel assured that the next solution will truly follow the same pattern.  We don't really know what's going on here.  One moment were playing T-ball, then it's kickball and pretty soon it's tackle football. In that case, I think it's still like playing T-ball, only the field has been unmowed for 30 years and it's only getting darker out, and you only think you should be playing football because you can't find the bases that were so obvious when the field was laid out.

I mentioned T-Ball because those are set on or next to the home plate and the globe lamps at the 2 c's look like giant T-ball.  Theme wise it doesnt follow the Paul revere or ancient historian stuff, but it does go with Fenway Park some.  "Feel at home" can then have this meaning as you stand next to a globe lamp. (Oops, forgot whiich thread I was discussing in -cross posting this ti I11)

cw0909 wrote:: i dont want to get to O/T,but that Stadther,statement,and yours the very special child--with superpowers in the summer of 09,i meet a child that is a genius,and gave her the book of sad,she is in her freshman yr of college this yr,age 15,and still hasnt solved it, she is good in every subject,but loves math,i thought for sure she would solve it,so far no go,she did say that it might be a morse,but she hasnt found it yet go figure,IMO,its only simple if you know the answer,and im still looking LOL Yeah. So much for "so easy a child could solve it," eh?

erexere wrote:: A predator behind a mask behind a spot-winged moth. Insects use a variety of defense mechanisms against predators.  Spots supposedly look like big eyes to help fend off predators.  This basically represents a disguise.  A mask is a disguise.  What kind of animals have disguises? Raccoons?  If this is simple enough logic, does it follow that BP is referring to the Cape Romain Lighthouses being built on the island named Raccoon Key (now known as Lighthouse Island)? The ears of a raccoon are shaped mich like the arches that form the eye socket and brow portion of the mask and the black patches along with eyes looks much like a moths wings.  Picking a location defined by a raccoon makes a lot of sense when artistically combining these layers.  The relationships here are characteristically intentional.

Couple things, the actual fact that I landed on mask and animal as a raccoon idea before learning Cape Romain's Lighthouse Island is called Raccoon Key is really exciting.  Secondly, I screwed up major on my Sunset at 7:13 in May statement.  I'm working on reevaluating why I came up with that wrong info. Okay, here is the way the problem should be presented, the sumter clock is under rotation, lay the image flat and rotate so Sumter is correctly aligned, look for the Gem in the illustration, its now at the top of the page in the North direction.  (this is my attempt to use cw0909 and maltedfalcons treatment of the image).  The clock hands are a clue to think of 1913 as military time for 7:13 pm.  What next?  If North is viewed as 12 o'clock, the clock hands now look like 11:40 (est.).  We can figure the exact time doing clock angle math if we are expected to apply the  1913 clue to do so.  Eventually I expect to apply a time to find a set of Sun angles. I feel that the use of a triangle in image 4 was a simple one.  I think combined with the sphere and Greek theme, Euclid and the "Triangle" apartments fit snuggly as path helpers.  Several triangles appear in thos image and it seems to me an indication of a geometric solid that has been dismantled.  Tetrahedron has 4, Octahedron has 8, Icosahedron has 20 sides made of equillateral triangles.  Where does this lead?

Hi y'all.  I'm taking 29 people down to Sullivan's island day after tomorrow to do some digging.  We have worked on this for a while and I just finished reading this thread.  I think we came up with a few little ideas I didn't see here so I thought I would share them. (honestly I couldn't read slappys posts so if they are buried in there forgive me;) We wondered if the wingless bird and last member of a forest might be a rebus...moa+tree = moultrie. Moa being the only wingless bird etc. My daughter thought the drawing of ft. Sumpter looked like home plate on a baseball "diamond" and since baseball was invented at fort moultrie and diamonds are the birthstone for April...the field south of ft moultrie is even where spring training started for a while.  Well we thought that was cool. The other interesting connection is the painting of the revolutionary battle at moultrie.  Y'all have probably seen it.  It shows sgt. Jasper climbing the last palmetto tree left south of the fort to hang up the battle flag after the British shot it down.  Well the artist is named "White".  So we kind of wondered if "Jasper" could be "white's" "stone". As for Arc of lights, we are divided between the lighthouse and the appearance of the barrier island as you cross the bridge at night with the darkness of the marsh in the foreground and the sky in the background. We plan on looking around the charleston lighthouse site too. I know specific pictures are helpful. If you have any requests I will check back here right before I leave and post them as we get them. Please forgive the long post.  I really enjoyed reading all the hard work and cool ideas.  I will post pictures if we find anything new.

Greetings Shelshock. Here's a PDF summary of my thoughts on Sullivan's Island... http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/stellamaris.pdf I'd be very interested to see some more photos of this area (especially of a newly-dug casque.) Good luck! WR

So we are coming home empty handed. A few thoughts though. The hunt is best looked into at night. The lighthouse for instance. There are two beams of light projected from the top in a v shape. The light is kept from shining back towards the land by a wall at the back of the lantern room. This definitely makes an arc of lights. There are not enough lights on the island to make a convincing arc on the land as you. Cross the bridge to the island. As for white rabbits solution it is compelling. The site looks perfect. The problem is that twelve paces puts you over the property l

... Line. The very nice lady that lives next door has Been in the house sinc the 60s and was there when the treasure was buried. According to her all the trees on the site were knocked down by Hugo and she remembers them being pines. The world war 1 and 2 memorial there was put up in the 40s or 50s and was there when bp placed the treasure.

The power poles and supports we're taken down about two years ago and replaced with buried cables. The junction boxes for these are on the site and if they are connected pass right through the area one might want to dig in if 12 paces means 12 steps. The little triangular shaped area used to be the property of ft moultrie but know is part of a little city park. Digging here should be fine except for the buried power cables. Yikes!

A thin probe goes easily through the sandy soil and reaches hard pack at about three feet. The monument sits at an angle so where to start walking is not terribly clear. The top of the monument has a chalice shaped planter with nothing in it. Could represent the lions nose but it is thicker in the middle.

Thanks for the update Shelshock.  🙂 I'm not entirely convinced that "at twelve paces" should be used to measure a distance. If you're walking it, it's too vague to find a position accurately, and there are several different "standardised" interpretations... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pace_(unit) It might be some cryptic reference. Sounds like a duelling reference to me. Either that, or there would have to be a couple of pretty definite physical things that were about twelve paces apart. I was wondering about the casque possibly being right beside the monument, on its west side. (Granite walls...white stone...is that thing made of granite...?)

It is granite. I did not probe the area just to the west, but that does make sense. A reason to go back!  I think I'll have the power lines marked and bring a ground penetrating radar too.

I recently heard from someone planning a visit to this area in June, so get your thinking caps on...I'd still like to see that monument investigated...

(...he got bored waiting for the Admins to approve his membership so I just loaned him my logon...hope he doesn't edit out all my brilliant posts...)

I really do hate that I have not checked this one out more thoroughly... I do live right nearby. I could go there every weekend, no problem, if it weren't for the fam. Anybody want me to hit this place up soon? I think I am free every weekend this month (besides the one I visit Boston on ) I just need some well-thought out reasoning.

Lets me out.

i realize that the factual origin of the mask has been discovered, but could it be Osceola's death mask/missing head?

I am only a guest of the Rabbit but plan to check out his theory within 2 weeks - if his theory dose not pan out is there any others that need to be checked while I am there? I am going to retrace some of the hard work done here to see if I see any new thoughts on it while there but Rabbit's seems well laid out. If its a miss - I want to make good use of the time there any others that want me to check on if Rabbits dose not pan out? post here and I will check back before we go. And thanks to you Rabbit there is allot of interesting reading here and as of yet the forum admin still has not approved my own log in so thanks for the borrow as well. Happy Memorial Day.

Hello Guest of White Rabbit, I'm pursuing the idea that its an hour as the crow flies to the north east of Charleston on an island key formally known as Raccoon Key.  It's known now as Lighthouse Island and it has twin lighthouses just 200 meters apart.  They arent identical but I believe they fit the line in Verse 6 that goes "between two arms extended".  I think the symbolism behind the image of a lion behind a mask is a simple approach towards recognizing what kind of creature has a mask, a Raccoon.  I'm not at all sure how exactly we locate the casque there.  Perhaps we find the midpoint between the two towers.  The real challenge is finding transportation.  It has very few tourist trips and the area has become very rugged and dilapidated over the past 30 years.

forest_blight wrote:: Nice find, lobster411. If you're right, we walked right by the dang thing! Here is my picture: And here is a satellite view. I can see why this palmetto might be called the last standing member of a forest, since it looks isolated: There is a different way to interpret the verse. White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side ...to me means at 12 paces from the west side of the only standing member. So at 12 paces from the tree, you'll find a white stone (which you did). Get permission to dig out might mean "dig on the side for which you need to seek permission," i.e., the east side. I really think you need a probe. The sandy soil would be ideal, and you wouldn't have to dig to find out if there was anything there. My other advice is to arrive after 5:00 on a weekday and wait until no one is around. The place was pretty deserted when we went, and that was after 5:00pm on a Sunday (I think). Shelshock wrote:: The other interesting connection is the painting of the revolutionary battle at moultrie.  Y'all have probably seen it.  It shows sgt. Jasper climbing the last palmetto tree left south of the fort to hang up the battle flag after the British shot it down.  Well the artist is named "White". Hi there guest-of-rabbit... Thinking about other possibilities, here's Forest's comments on an earlier visit to this area... General thoughts that occur to me are: a) I still like the area around Stella Maris and the war memorial as previously set out. I've always been curious about whether the path beside it has paving slabs, and if so, whether the "twelve paces" might be anything to do with counting slabs. I'm dubious about whether "walk twelve paces from here" is accurate enough to be a useful way to pinpoint a casque, unless it takes you from one solid thing to another solid thing. I'd also be interested in a photo of the church organ if you happen to drop by, to see if this image-match suggestion has any basis in reality...(that's just a random picture of a church organ, not the actual one.) b) Digging on NPS ground, or at the foot of trees, seems pretty dodgy, but I wouldn't rule anything out, and there is that curious line about "permission" after all. Regarding this tree and rock shown above - if we were to consider those as alternative candidates for the the "white stone" and the "only standing member of a forest", and if they're twelve paces apart, there's some ambiguity about which might be the spot, and which side the casque might be on. I'm not exactly sure where people tried digging before. c) I'm also curious about the end of the road on the coast, with the car parking spot, in the top left of the above photo, partly because the butterfly's wings resemble this kind of shoreline, and the image includes something a bit like a pair of sunglasses. There are various signs down that road there - "at twelve" (Station 12 St). It would be interesting to get some photos of those and see what's on them. If one of them included the word "permission", for example, that could be pretty significant. (Byron liked pulling random words off signs and tucking them into the verses.) I don't remember anyone having mentioned going there. Considering one of Shelshock's comments... ...I was wondering whether Palmetto St on the other side of Fort Moultrie could be another possibility for "the only standing member of a forest"...? There are more signs "to the south" or at the south end of it, which might contain "permission" or other keywords. (I still kind of like the "lion's eye tower" you can see at this point.)

Unknown: n 1775, Colonel William Moultrie was asked by the Revolutionary Council of Safety to design a flag for the South Carolina troops to use during the American Revolutionary War. Moultrie's design had the blue of the militia's uniforms and the crescent from the emblem on their caps. This flag was flown in the defense of a new fortress on Sullivan's Island, when Moultrie faced off against a British fleet that hadn't lost a battle in a century. In the 16 hour battle on June 28, 1776, the flag was shot down, but Sergeant William Jasper ran out into the open, raising it and rallying the troops until it could be mounted again. This gesture was so heroic, saving Charleston, South Carolina, from conquest for four years, that the flag came to be the symbol of the Revolution, and liberty, in the state and the new nation. Soon popularly known as either the Moultrie Flag or Liberty Flag, it became the standard of the South Carolina militia, and was presented in Charleston, by Nathaniel Greene, when that city was liberated at the end of the war. Greene described it as having been the first American flag to fly over the South. The palmetto tree was added in 1861, also a reference to Moultrie's defense of Sullivan Island; the fortress he'd constructed had survived largely because the palmetto trees, laid over sand walls, were able to withstand British cannons. Incidentally, someone once suggested that the image hinted at the flag of South Carolina, with the crescent shadow at the base of the pear... I've only just realised how closely this flag is associated with Sullivan's Island, Fort Moultrie, and the Palmetto. It was known as the "Moultrie Flag", and its history also includes Fort Sumter. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flag_of_South_Carolina

A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight Perhaps this is a bit far-fetched, but I've previously wondered if the "wingless bird" and the flying woman in the picture might relate to the figure of Mary that stands atop Stella Maris. (Trivia corner: Osceola was imprisoned at St Augustine in Florida before being taken to Fort Moultrie. "Juan Ponce de Leon" means "John punched the lion".)

Unknown: In 1829 a structure was built on what is now Marion Square in downtown Charleston to house arms and ammunition, federal troops from nearby Fort Moultrie began guarding the new state assnal in 1830 and in 1832 they were replaced by state militia. Over the next 10 years assnals throughout the state were consolidated in Charleston and Columbia; Governor John Richardson eventually proposed converting both into military academies and on December 20, 1842, the South Carolina Legislature passed an Act "to convert the assnal at Columbia, and the citadel and magazine in and near Charleston, into Military Schools" thereby transforming the two State assnals into the South Carolina Military Academy. Unknown: Father Patrick McGowan, a priest on the staff of the Diocese and himself an Irish immigrant, organized the construction of the Church of St. John the Baptist on Sullivan's Island. A lot was purchased in April of 1845, slightly to the west of the present church. The church, a small wooden building, was completed later that summer. The first Mass was said in June, 1845, just two days before the Feast of St. John the Baptist. The Church of St. John the Baptist remained in place through the War Between the States. Sullivan's Island, the home of Fort Moultrie, suffered extensive bombardment by Federal troops, and by the end of the war, in 1865, the church was the only public building left standing on the island. Father Timothy Bermingham, the Vicar General of the Diocese of Charleston, took up Sullivan's Island as a special project in the late 1860s. He first planned to rehabilitate the old church. By 1868, however, Father Bermingham developed the idea that a new church building should be the centerpiece for a restoration of Sullivan's Island as a popular resort. Father Bermingham bought the present church lot in October, 1868, for $100. He secured permission from the Secretary of War to use bricks from the ruins of Fort Moultrie to build the new church. Here's some random brainstorming on Image 2 / Verse 5. Lane Two twenty two Station 22 and 22-and-a-half St...? Bit random though. I once suggested that one of the things people might have associated with "Two twenty two" is an old comedy TV series called Room 222. One of the main characters was Richie Lane. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Room_222 http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0688618/ But the only connection there I can see is that it's set at Walt Whitman High School, and Whitman wrote a poem about Osceola . Quite a stretch. You'll see an arc of lights I think that's a decent enough clue for a lighthouse. Once you've got Charleston from the map and the lat/long, that narrows it down to about three. Weight and roots extended Together saved the site It's been suggested that this describes the value of the palmetto logs in defending Fort Moultrie. "Roots extended" is a very odd way of referring to "logs" - they're not, really. "Weight" is pretty odd as well, though I noticed that Moultrie had sand-filled walls, so I guess "weight" might possibly tie in with "sand" via balloon ballast. Of granite walls OK, so Sumter and Moultrie have plenty of granite. (Stella Maris was built with stone raided from the fort.) Wind swept halls I've never understood what this was about. It could possibly be something in Poe, but no quotation has been found. Citadel in the night Probably a reference to Charleston's Military College of South Carolina and its logo. More Moultrie connections there...(this dumb forum changes a*r*s*e*n*a*l into "assnal"...) A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight I'm happy with The Balloon Hoax for this. Apparently it was based on The Moon Hoax , the illustrations for which might have been another possible source of inspiration for wonder-woman. (Ezra Pound used the phrase "ancient dreams of flight" in an essay called "The Wisdom of Poetry" - may also occur elsewhere. See P57 here .) Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south I've been wondering how people might have interpreted some of these lines seeing them for the first time. The southernmost National forests in the US are in Florida; eg Ocala and Osceola. Here are some notes on the history of Stella Maris: http://www.catholic-doc.org/stellamaris/history.html I previously wondered if the "only standing member" might refer to this church at 1204 Osceola, as the only building left standing at one time; though I now see this was an earlier building, nearby, but not exactly the same. Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side Get permission To dig out These directions are horribly ambiguous. I'd like to test the interpretation: "Get permission to dig out from the west side of the white stone", but I can't really explain the twelve paces. I've previously suggested it reminds me of duelling, "pistols at twelve paces", and Osceola fought duels, eg see here . But that doesn't make much of a clue for Osceola (and that one was fought at another common distance of ten paces), so maybe it does literally mean take twelve paces. But from where to where, and in what direction, I dunno. I've come across a couple of references on Google to suggest that twelve paces could be taken as twelve yards. Could the memorial be "twelve paces" striding from the church...? You could then have: Beneath the only standing member Of a forest Church on Osceola. To the south White stone closest At twelve paces White stone 12 paces south. From the west side Get permission To dig out Get permission to dig out from the west side of this white stone.

ive been stuggling with those paces since the 80s,maybe BP meant PACE= 1foot or what most have said on the net,avg 4.5-5ft = a pace What is a pace? A pace is equivalent to, two natural steps. Starting with your right foot as the first step, when your left foot hits the ground you can count that as one pace How many feet are in a pace? The average length in feet of a pace will vary between people and will also vary across different types of terrain. Most people will have a pace somewhere around 4.5 to 5 feet http://www.backcountryattitude.com/pacing.html more pace pace [1] a traditional unit of distance equal to the length of a person's "full" pace, that is, the distance between two successive falls of the same foot. Thus one pace equals two steps. The Romans counted 1000 paces in a mile with each pace being a little over 58 inches (or about 148 centimeters). In English speaking countries, the pace is usually defined to be exactly 5 feet (or 152.4 centimeters); this unit is also called the great pace or geometrical pace. Obviously, a good metric version of the pace is exactly 1.5 meters. pace [2] in military use, the term "pace" is often used as an alternate name for the step; see military pace. military pace another name for a step. In the U.S. Army, the military pace is defined to be exactly 30 inches (76.2 centimeters) for ordinary "quick time" marching and 36 inches (91.44 centimeters) for double time marching. The same definitions are generally used by marching bands. http://www.unc.edu/~rowlett/units/dictP.html http://www.ces.ncsu.edu/forestry/pdf/WON/won39.pdf http://www.ca.uky.edu/agc/pubs/for/for47/for47.htm

cw0909, I always assumed that a pace is one "walking step" or stride. (I could be wrong.) If you use 2 steps for a pace, that makes the Milwaukee clue entirely different. AP (I like your illustration... )

Yeah, considering they also occur in Milwaukee, I guess it would be pretty unreasonable for BP to expect someone to measure paces other than by a typical step. You can't really imagine someone "striding" for 100 paces.

{moved}

animal painter wrote:: cw0909, I always assumed that a pace is one "walking step" or stride. (I could be wrong.) If you use 2 steps for a pace, that makes the Milwaukee clue entirely different. AP (I like your illustration... ) how much dif do you think,maybe 2Xs what you had b4 i did my driveway my measure was 231/2 paces,the 2 foot fall count and going with the 5ft,117.5 ft, taped measured 118ft and i walk with a slight limp,left leg

White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side I've always been suspicious of that "closest". Maybe it could be "close St", or "close to the street". Twelve paces from the west side of the street...? I'd like to know what was on this sign beside Fort Moultrie at the bottom of Station 12 St., and whether there's any white stones down that way. The Twelfth Station is where JC died on the cross. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stations_of_the_Cross There aren't many actual "lanes" on Sullivan's island. Sea Breeze Lane is near the church. Doubt if it's suitable, but can't really make it out. Sullivan's Island has these markers all over the place that look like they might be white stone. Or are they wood? Street signs I suppose; I haven't been able to read the writing on any of them... I'm completely open-minded about this really; open to radical theories. It might not be right next to the monument. It might be several feet away from it.  ;D Maybe you could take 12 paces from that white stone "street marker" by the monument shown above, and see where that gets you. Is this about 12 paces...?

Here's another of those "white stones" (?) It says "Middle" and "Sta 11" (intersection of Middle St and Station 11 St). You could find examples saying "Poe", "L'on", "Palmetto", and other street names that might possibly be relevant. That means the one by the monument shown above, or nearby, must say "STA 12" "White stone close st At 12"...? Overview showing "street marker" stone, monument, and possible wire confirmer beside Stella (star) Maris, 1204 Osceola. (I'm not repeating myself am I?) The daisy petals remind me of those white marker stones. (I'd say there were 17 petals. Station 17 is at the end of L'on.)

Hi - Guest of White Rabbit here again. I have been here all week at Sullivan's island. The organ in the church was not here when BP came via the Father or is at the church but he says where the bell ringing area is now there use to be some pipes that resembled whats in the puzzle picture that we are comparing to the organ. Also as another possible only member of a forest to the south in the church yard is a salt cedar - its branch's or needles look allot like the ones in the picture and its not a native tree to here its imported from Africa(more to the south than here) Some may think its an only standing member as its the only one in this area and was here when BP may have been here. The sign at the end of middle street on the beech is a warning not to swim to the left of it due to strong riptides. Yes the street marker is at the tip of the park across from the church and says Osceola one side sta 12 on one side and middle on the other (3 streets meet here) and they were here when bp came and are always white. Using a pace as 30 inch up to 36 I worked a radius to the west side of this stone to no luck I did the same to the ww2 memorial -it puts you just on the edge of the park and the lady's property next door - no luck with that either. I also checked right beside them as White Rabbit requested - sorry no luck - the ground here ends at around 2ft depth in a bed of shell so this in some ways made the search easier but I hit a lot of shells and had to check them out to see they were only shells. Osceolas grave is across the street at an angle and next to it is a tall white memorial there(list names of those who died in a ship here) is room to go out the paces but the park service said that's a no-go- they would not allow me to check the ground anywhere near it but it fits the puzzle. The same with the tree behind the fort or on the water side - that palmetto tree was not likely here when bp came and Hugo the hurricane knocked out most of the area trees but even so its still on the forts land and they wont let me check it - look yes take pictures yes probe with a rod - not this trip. I will be here 3 more days if any other ideas come up for me to check. And when I get back home I have several pictures from the area to put up maybe it will help some one else out (if its not resolved in 3 days-lol). the Father at the church is very interested in the puzzle and gave me permission to check or dig anywhere on the property while here but there is not a white stone on the church yard only across the street at the small park. I also tried going true west of the two markers instead of just west side - no-go on that as well did not locate the treasure desired. Looked up the picture and story about the artist named white who painted the scene with the flag - its not a tree standing or last tree but a rod used to pack the guns he tied the flag to it in the painting and tried to raise it but I will try to get a picture of the white marker you pointed out on the beach beyond the palmetto tree so that we at least know whats there. The windswept halls fit the fort as its hallways are open and some when blocked are only blocked by bars  and the wind sweeps through them. The forts actual walls are brick it has been rebuilt 3 times. The Stella Marris church was built with bricks from the 2nd  Ft Moultrie. Following the theme in threads about the two found in each picture they each show the exact spot in the puzzle picture - I can not see anything in the picture that resembles that small park. I do notice the face on the right side of picturewhere eye glass looking image is & also the cross in lines mane on the left looks like its part of a necklace around a face on that side - Has anyone else noticed that? and if so what do you make of it - very hidden not as obvious as other clues. I will check back for more help or ideas later today & thanks for lettingme be a part of this.

Unknown: Initially, a massive battery for three 12-inch breech-loading rifles (BLR) on gun lift carriages was projected for construction at Fort Sumter in the early 1890s.  Funds in the amount of $75,000 were appropriated and Captain Fredric V. Abbot began preliminary work that consisted of soil test boring on the old parade ground of the historic fortification.  The test bores suggested to Abbot that the site could not support the weight and size of the projected battery by resting its foundations on pilings.  It was Abbot's opinion that a battery erected at Fort Sumter would have to be founded upon a grillage floated on the surface soil. Abbot also made repairs to the fort's scarp in preparation to the projected battery construction. Hey, thanks for all your work on this! Brainstorming, brainstorming... Sullivan's Island definitely has the African connection. Perhaps I've been too wrapped up in the search for "visual clues" in the image. We still can't know for sure whether some of these puzzles rely on visual clues, but the evidence so far is that the picture gives an area, but the verse gives the location. In New Orleans, for instance, there are convincing visual clues all over the place, in several different parks. The only thing we can be sure of from that picture is that it's somewhere in New Orleans. Likewise, I'm starting to think that this is probably in Sullivan's Island somewhere, but even if the Moultrie and Stella Maris "clues" are valid and intentional, they might just be "Sullivan's Island" clues. So, I've been going back to the verse, and trying to figure out what the verse is talking about. The problem is that the verses can apparently identify different random locations in the same way as the pictures. For instance, the Roanoke verse seems to quote from different signs that are quite far apart with no obvious trail. ...and on the subject of "trails", some verses seem to follow quite a lengthy joined-up route (eg Milwaukee) while others just reference various nearby things, in no particular logical order (Chicago). So...hmm.  😛 Somewhere in the verse are lines which tell us about a particular location. I think the "street name" stones are a new and interesting possible candidate for the "white stone", and I've come round to thinking of the "twelve paces" as 12 simple, literal steps. The verse definitely seems to reference the lighthouse ("arc of lights"), so that area might be worth exploring. Street markers near the lighthouse...? We also think there are Poe references in the verse, and the Poe library is near the lighthouse. L'on (Lion?) ave runs past it. Perhaps the lighthouse itself could be considered "white stone". I'm always drawn to fences. Eg, is this fence 12 paces west of this white stone...? Re: "two twenty two", Sullivan's Island historical site #222 is an 1890 school at 2014 Central Ave. Doesn't look very interesting though. I'm still puzzled about "Lane", and there might be something in the "Abbot" acrostic we haven't figured out yet. A wingless bird ascended B orn of ancient dreams of flight B eneath the only standing member O f a forest T o the south Could this be Captain Abbot...? http://groups.yahoo.com/group/CoastDefe ... 7878?var=0 I think this was Frederic Vaughan Abbot, the son of Henry Larcom Abbot, though I'm not 100% sure. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_Larcom_Abbot (Henry was big in submarines; possible tie-in with HL Hunley or something...? Seems to have been a famous sub launched off Sullivan's Island. Starting to drift away from the clue though, if it is a clue.) The pendant undoubtedly references Sumter. The shape also vaguely suggests the fence surrounding this triangular lighthouse. * Whimsy alert * Africa's diamond, earth-born star Bright harvest of the midnight rock Stella Maris, Star of the Sea...lighthouse... "Flag" as red, amber, green traffic lights... "...ancient dreams of light..." "Dark glasses" in pic. This thing was very bright. Too bright - they had to turn it down to stop annoying people. http://www.lighthousefriends.com/light.asp?ID=334 * * * * * I'm concerned about encouraging you to spend your vacation chasing buried treasure. Make sure you get some sunbathing in.  8)

I know 32/79 are the lat/long, but how about this... (Image 1 "crossover clue"...? They're on opposite sides of the same page.) It's another possible "white stone" at Moultrie. http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMB1 ... _Island_SC

Re: "Lane two twenty two", you arrive on Sullivan's Island via Station 22-and-a-half St, and see signs like this. Maybe it's "to twenty two".

Here's where that "32" stone is apparently located... Flag sign circled, 32 stone marked with a cross. (Just realised this is the "property marker" stone that people looked at before, discussed on P13 of this thread. It's a good stone, though I don't know exactly where people dug, or their reasoning.)

TEL wrote:: Notice the picture with the colors that match what is in the puzzle? look at the bottom left corner Ft Sumter may have that shape now so many say its Ft Sumter as an area landmark but then why the 3 stripe colors on the one in puzzle - was it to lead you to this sign that shows FT Moultrie was rebuilt 3 times the 2nd ft Moultrie has the same shape as the pendant in the puzzle. TEL (aka "the guest") has had an email to say that his application to join Q4T has been rejected. (?) But he kindly emailed me some photos from his recent visit. Taking another look at the flag and the book side by side...I'm not sure they're all that similar after all. I guess it still could be a representation of it though - it's the closest thing anyone's found.

As I recall, if you face that sign from the direction where the bars in the flag *do* match up with the mask, you face that single tree in the distance.  I think it's one of the more promising leads there is, despite the fact that no casque was ever found in a couple of dig attempts.

bigmattyh wrote:: As I recall, if you face that sign from the direction where the bars in the flag *do* match up with the mask, you face that single tree in the distance.  I think it's one of the more promising leads there is, despite the fact that no casque was ever found in a couple of dig attempts. Unknown: I went today and found nothing.  We dug 4 feet deep over an area of about 16 square feet.  This took 4 hours.  This is the area where the casque would have been expected to be.  Possible reasons the casque was absent include: The casque is actually under the tree lobster411 wrote:: Beneath the only standing member of a forest to the south of the fort, there is a white stone at twelve paces.  On the west side, get permission to dig out. forest_blight wrote:: The upshot is that the treasure could be (a) on the NPS side of the white stone or (b) 12 paces west of the tree, ignoring the stone altogether. These are different because the stone isn't exactly due west (as the raven flies!). Pacing off a treasure location was likely a deliberate play on the fact that Poe's "The Gold Bug" - one of the best treasure hunting stories ever - was set on Sullivan's Island, and pacing off locations is a classic part of unearthing buried pirate treasure Hirudiniforme wrote:: Anybody want me to hit this place up soon? ...yep, would agree with that. I'd be interested to get hold of some pics of this area with the tree and the stone, and an explanation of exactly where they tried, which isn't at all clear... Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side Get permission To dig out Difficult to get your head round this. There's the idea of the stone and the tree, and one being in a certain direction from the other...and there's also the idea of the casque being buried to one side of something. It could mean, buried to the south of a tree, which would be very like Milwaukee's "at its southern foot the treasure waits". Although I've resisted the idea of casques being buried at the base of trees, I have to admit that's the simplest interpretation of these verses. That way the white stone would just be an identifier for the tree. Thinking out loud here... To be honest, it's difficult to interpret it any other way. Working backwards from the end, I'd been thinking of another way of looking at it as digging out the casque from the west side of the white stone... ...but that way "beneath the only standing member of a forest" wouldn't make much sense unless it was another way of saying "to the south of the only standing member of a forest", like, on a map. I then wondered if the "only standing member of a forest" could be a metaphor for something else, like Stella Maris. But it's a bit of a stretch. Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south I was thinking that the white stone at Moultrie can't be said to be "beneath" a tree which is 25 steps east. But then, taking another look at the above map, I guess the stone is southwest of the tree, so it's "beneath" in that map way, where beneath=south. Still a bit of a stretch. So...I guess I'm reluctantly returning to that tree. I'm not sure that anyone has actually tried digging by that. Since it's so difficult to get permission to dig round that area it'll probably take ground penetrating radar to check it. In The Gold Bug, as I remember, the spot where the treasure was buried was measured off from a tree. This also resembles Milwaukee in using "paces" to measure distances. In this Moultrie theory, a pace was two steps, though paces could also mean steps. I suppose another possibility might be twelve steps west from the tree...? Perhaps between the tree and the stone...? Maybe there's an overlooked clue in the image. Go for it. Can you hire a GPR? Maybe we could have a whip-round.  😉

Unknown: Geodetic survey markers were often set in groups. For example, in triangulation surveys, the primary point identified was called the triangulation station, or the "main station". It was often marked by a "station disk" (see upper photo at left), a brass disk with a triangle inscribed on its surface and an impressed mark that indicated the precise point over which a surveyor's plumb bob should be dropped to assure a precise location over it. A triangulation station was often surrounded by several (usually three) reference marks(see second photo at left),[3] each of which bore an arrow that pointed back towards the main station. These reference marks made it easier for later visitors to "recover" (or re-find) the primary ("station") mark. Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side Get permission To dig out OK, how about this. The only standing member of a forest is that tree. There's a white stone "Beneath...to the south"; to the southwest, though mainly west, walking past the sign with the flag and the pendant fort pic. Take twelve paces (pace = two steps) west from the tree and arrive at the stone. This stone has stern injunctions on it about not disturbing it on penalty of fine or imprisonment. But you're convinced it's right because of stuff like this... You don't want to risk jail, so you get permission to dig, right there, by the stone, as approached from the tree. Has anyone tried that spot? I don't know what it looks like from the ground, from that angle. Would be great to see a pic. It would be a pretty crazy place to bury a casque. Here's another of these markers which shows the missing text. Wikipedia article on these things here - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Survey_marker (Plumb bobs feature in The Gold Bug. In Poe's story, the "gold bug" of the title - a gold beetle which gets confused with a skull - was used, on a length of string, instead of a piece of lead, to find the treasure; reminiscent of the pendant perhaps.) The diamond has a kind of blue circle with triangular shards which might suggest the disk. There are also blue circles in the butterfly wings. If he'd wanted to include a confirmer for the disk, though, he could have made it a heck of a lot more obvious without giving much away until you found it.

Tel wrote:: When you look at the image if you think that the artist 1st painted a beach scene then continued into the final image - look to the right and left of the lions face - I can sort of see a image of a place but cant make it out completely. Can you see it?? think clouds in sky in the back then waves on a beach then a place and see on the right side of the mane what looks like a pier as it is a short section then angles up then continues - sort of like the beach access ramps at Sullivan's island can you see it? Some pics from Tel's recent visit -

here is an image of a unique tree on the stella marris church grounds - it may be the only standing member - it was imported from Africa & that fits the pictures theme plus it look a little like the branches in the puzzel - I hope this dose not double post as this is the guest of White Rabbit and the 1st time it said my file size was too big . I explored the theory that this may be the standing member but only explored it a little. Maybe someone here can see more.

here is a close up of the salt cedars branch. My original thought was Osceolas grave was the member and that the white marker of those who died in a ship is to its south side and 12 paces to the west is still on the grounds of Ft Moultrie - but try as I did I could not get permission to even probe with a rod just to check my therory.

I'm working with some different ideas here. Idiom: assuming the mantle Edwina is Edwin's daughter.  After Edwin's passing, Edwina took on the responsibility of preserving his legacy and contribution to art and African American history. Idiom: like a moth to the flame A dangerous attraction or natural predilection towards something such as a moth to the flame of a candle or a lemming to a cliff (forgive the misconception) or even a wife to an abusive husband. Reading between the lines (verse and image), mantle and mantel, cape and fireplace. Freedom at the birth of a century:  the convention that we are accustomed to in referring to centuries, 19th century or 20th century, stems from the first 100 years after Year 1, which is a reference to the first year of our Lord, or the crucifixion of Jesus of Nazareth.  Freedom in this perspective can only be about the release of a man in prison for murder: Barabas. Barabas = avoids a murder conviction = keeper Andrew Johnson, who's wife was ruled a suicide when in fact, upon his death-bed, confessed her murder.

As always, I've been comparing clue types found in the various pictures. One that stuck out to me was the use of overlayed images that work together, kinda like on that show classic concentration. Examples include the crossbow and archway in I3 (Fletcher and the Elizabethan Gardens entrance), the L and the bell in I4 (Liberty Blvd), and the millstone, walking stick, and key in I10 (Mil-Wau-kee). Although, I guess this proposition is a little more akin to the I3 "solve": The hooks on this image have always bothered me: Well, much like fletchers make arrows, fisherman make/use hooks. So I Googled "Fisher Charleston", and the first link hit the spot (a wikipedia entry for Lavinia Fisher). Where was she held... the Old Jail in Charleston, famous for housing the worst pirates. Tales cruel and bold came outta that place, no doubt. I thought it coincidental that the clues could be used much in the same way as in I3, a name and a place overlayed/adjacent in the images. The verse (V6) begins...Of all the romance retold Men of tales and tunes Cruel and bold Seen here By eyes of old ...also drawing our focus to the eyes. Also coincidental is that the jail has a massive octogonal wing (eighth?), covered with earthquake bolts, that was built by Barbot and Seyle (bar that binds... bar and seal?)

I like that creativity.  Fisher could also be Fischer, right?

erexere wrote:: I like that creativity.  Fisher could also be Fischer, right? It could be many things, it could be nothing.

I'm drawn to the simple observation of the female form combined with a common term description that is the pear-shape.  The narrow upper portion followed by the wider lower portion.  woman + pear = shape description.  The 1827 Cape Romain lighthouse is narrow on top and wide at bottom as is true of most lighthouses.

erexere wrote:: I'm drawn to the simple observation of the female form combined with a common term description that is the pear-shape.  The narrow upper portion followed by the wider lower portion.  woman + pear = shape description. I am at a loss on this one... Do you really think BP would insinuate woman are pear shaped and that we need to make that connection as part of solving a clue?

This is art 101.  The pear shape is well documented and utilized in art and architecture. I am not insinuating the female form and a pear have the commonality of shape, the art world has already drawn that conclusion.  I'm not saying ALL women are pear shaped.  I'm just saying there's a pear and a woman in image 2, and in terms of art, the best inference is that we might be smart to look for some pyriform type visual clue.  The lighthouse is an example of a pyriform which is a shape something between a cyllinder and a cone (geometry 101).

erexere wrote:: This is art 101.  The pear shape is well documented and utilized in art and architecture. I am not insinuating the female form and a pear have the commonality of shape, the art world has already drawn that conclusion.  I'm not saying ALL women are pear shaped.  I'm just saying there's a pear and a woman in image 2, and in terms of art, the best inference is that we might be smart to look for some pyriform type visual clue.  The lighthouse is an example of a pyriform which is a shape something between a cyllinder and a cone (geometry 101). i understand art 101 and geometry 101, but "man does not make reference to pear-shaped woman" is reason 101. his target audience includes many pear shaped, self-conscious women - psychology 101. don't ostracize your readers - writing 101.

Put you're osteriches away now.  I see you're point where it's not politically correct to bring attention to a person's body shape, but I personally don't see the term as derogatory and I don't know how it would've been inappropriate in 1982.  People nowadays are more armed and ready when it comes to bodily reference, that's for sure. Something to be considered is the bold-all-taboos-aside freedom which comes with art and it's interpretation. I liked looking at this treasure hunt from a Classicism perspective.  Here's a nice article about the pear: http://www.hort.purdue.edu/newcrop/pearinhistory.pdf

Should  it be important to make a distinction in what type of mask this is?  I'm very curious to know if we can include Pygmy tribal mask as a possible consideration.  It might then be a rebus for pygmy + lion = Pygmalion aka My Fair Lady (hint from line "Waits the Fair remuneration). The Greek myth about Pygmalion where he falls in like love with his sculpture which is then brought to life by Venus might be in this reference or something to do with a woman who would be accepted into a higher than expected social setting...or a reference to the slang usage of the term "bloody".

http://www.vub.ac.be/BIBLIO/nieuwenhuys ... -masks.htm There are masks which might represent a pygmy, there aren't masks from the pygmy tribes. But isnt this kind of trying to shoehorn a clue to fit an idea, rather than follow the clues to a solution?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side I've always been suspicious of that "closest". Maybe it could be "close St", or "close to the street". Twelve paces from the west side of the street...? I'd like to know what was on this sign beside Fort Moultrie at the bottom of Station 12 St., and whether there's any white stones down that way. The Twelfth Station is where JC died on the cross. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stations_of_the_Cross There aren't many actual "lanes" on Sullivan's island. Sea Breeze Lane is near the church. Doubt if it's suitable, but can't really make it out. Sullivan's Island has these markers all over the place that look like they might be white stone. Or are they wood? Street signs I suppose; I haven't been able to read the writing on any of them... I'm completely open-minded about this really; open to radical theories. It might not be right next to the monument. It might be several feet away from it.  ;D Maybe you could take 12 paces from that white stone "street marker" by the monument shown above, and see where that gets you. Is this about 12 paces...? I am new...I have been waiting on admin approval for the forum, but have used a guest login to browse through a few of the threads awhile back... White...I can go down anytime to grab some shots of this sign (or any sign for that matter)-I live and work in and around Charleston, and am game to go gather information!

tjgrey wrote:: I am new...I have been waiting on admin approval for the forum, but have used a guest login to browse through a few of the threads awhile back... White...I can go down anytime to grab some shots of this sign (or any sign for that matter)-I live and work in and around Charleston, and am game to go gather information! Greetings TJ! Nice to have you aboard. The treasure in your city is quite the enigma. Hopefully we can crack the case. If you are ever in the area, would you mind taking pics of the area below? I think there might be something of interest there.

rookhunter wrote:: Greetings TJ! Nice to have you aboard. The treasure in your city is quite the enigma. Hopefully we can crack the case. If you are ever in the area, would you mind taking pics of the area below? I think there might be something of interest there. Thanks! And not a problem! I will keep you posted on when I get down there! And a few posts back, the tower structure was brought up (probably again) on the forehead of the mask. I ran across this, and it reminded me of the shape if one were to look at the lighthouse at the right angle.

Hi tjgrey, and welcome (back) to the forum. My favourite location for this casque is still somewhere in this area, but, I just don't know where.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Hi tjgrey, and welcome (back) to the forum. My favourite location for this casque is still somewhere in this area, but, I just don't know where. Thanks Rabbit! Good to be back! And, yes, if following the 5th (I believe) verse, yes, I would have to agree...So much seems to point to that island, and the fort specifically. Has anyone actually dug behind the WWII memorial, or has it just been probed? I was doing some distance marking from the web (so take it for what it's worth until I drive over there), but was trying to pinpoint where 12 paces (roughly 30 feet, if that is in agreement by some/all) was to check. I have been trying to look at the verse(es) more literally rather than looking too much into each line for a change...

bigmattyh wrote:: The rate that these sites are changing and/or deteriorating, is far outpacing the rate at which actual progress is being made on the hunt.  Unless something changes, it is getting extremely unlikely that any more casques will be found. Here's a general ramble/recap on where I'm at with this one. Unfortunately I'd have to agree with Bigmatty that: When I put together my notes on Sullivan's Island... http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... amaris.pdf ...the area with the war memorial seemed a secluded, undisturbed spot. But revisiting on Google Maps it seems to have changed a lot even over the past couple of years...the cables I once saw as a possible confirmer are gone, there are large new green electrical installations and buried cables. I kind of hope it's not there now, although I still like it, and the ground directly beside the memorial is probably still untouched. But...digging next to a war memorial; digging next to a boundary marker that warns of fines and imprisonment; digging next to a tree; these all seem a bit unlikely to me. On the other hand, it seems to me that "twelve paces" away from one of these is too vague to be a clear instruction on where to dig...isn't it...? I don't know. I'd really like something more definite. Here are some updated notes on these two "white stone" candidates. http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... stones.pdf In the vicinity of the church, I’m also interested in the white “Osceola” street marker near the memorial, and an African tree in the church grounds someone mentioned as the “only standing member of a forest”. (The part of the introduction relating to this puzzle goes on about African trees.) If we could find a white granite wall that it was possible to dig next to, that might account for the “granite walls” in the verse, as well as the “white stone”. It doesn’t have to be “a white stone”, it could just be “white stone (wall)”. If I was going on a photo-taking tour of this area, I’d like to see: 1) Pics showing the area around the boundary stone…I’ve never seen a general overview around this area. 2) Pics showing the area at the bottom of 12th Station St. I feel this road is significant, with the white-tipped hour hand in the image pointing at 12, and the litany entry mentioning midnight. 3) Pics showing the back of the church, next to the parking lot. Anywhere to dig in the church grounds…? We know it’s not buried in a graveyard, but we also know we apparently need to ask permission to dig so perhaps it’s private. I’d also like to see exactly where this African tree is. 4) Some close-ups of the war memorial from different sides.

New pics from Moultrie...

Polyphemus moth.  Polyphemus was blinded by Odysseus.  If this is meant to symbolize a lighthouse, then a lighthouse where its lamp was relocated to the newer lighthouse at Cape Romain makes even better sense given that the result is that its now blind.

I've had a nagging suspicion that Image 2 has something to do with "hunting and gathering" given the large predator and the vulnerability of the lepidoptera woman.  The tribal mask might be an indication of 'hunting' as well.  The "tags" in the shape of Sumter could be hunting tags.  The pear fruit could represent harvest gathering, although it's not the killing a creature sort. I found a gruesome story today on Wikipedia about lynching.  The only existing photo of a woman being lynched was of Luara Nelson .  This occured in the month of May in 1911.  If only it were 1913, then I'd think it might fit the line in verse 6, but it does support the idea that lynching was a concern during that time.  The pear hanging from the branch could be symbolic of lynching.  The wiki article mentioned Woody Gutherie wrote songs about the topic.  "Strange Fruit" was a song performed by Billy Holiday.  The "Sumter on a chain" may be symbolic of lynching as well since it looks like a face dangling from a neck-chain.  The Laura Nelson lynching happened in Oklahoma, but may be considered a matter of national attention, so I'm not concerned that it didn't fit directly with Charleston.  Perhaps there is some lynchings related to Charleston, and that might align with this idea.  Where it leads directly, I still have no idea.  Just an idea to chew on for the moment.

Unknown: Soon after the commutation, on August 17, 1915, a group of 25 men, described by peers as “sober, intelligent, of established good name and character“ stormed the prison hospital where Leo Frank was recovering from having his throat slashed by a fellow inmate. They kidnaped Frank, drove him more than 100 miles to Mary Phagan's hometown of Marietta, Georgia, and hanged him from a tree. Frank conducted himself with dignity, calmly proclaiming his innocence. Townsfolk were proudly photographed beneath Frank's swinging corpse, pictures still valued today by their descendants. More to do with lynching. In May of 1913, Leo Frank was arrested for the murder of Mary Phagan (actually murdered on Apr. 26th).  The Leo Frank Trial was the one article headline that I found in interesting in my careful search of the New York Times archives (I read them all for the month of May in 1913). Frank became the only known Jew lynched in American history. http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jso ... frank.html

I really doubt a lighthearted, comedic book about a treasure hunt would rely on the history of lynchings to lead folks to the treasure.

forest_blight wrote:: I really doubt a lighthearted, comedic book about a treasure hunt would rely on the history of lynchings to lead folks to the treasure. History ain't all 'bout smelling the roses, my friend.  Thorns and local color may bring our attention to uncomfortable topics.  Do you think this hunt is G-rated or E-for-everyone?  I think it's at least a PG, which may dredge up some ideas that have shock value.  Alcatraz in SF is one example.  Are we allowed to discuss it only as a landmark but not mention the awful representation of incarceration of our worst criminals?  The events around Sumter weren't so pretty, nor was the assination of President Lincoln, yet we find a way to hold such historically relevant topics in a discussable category. Lynching, rather the protest of such dreadful acts is surely something Preiss may have thought worth basing a puzzle on.  It could be utilized to achieve a sense for finding a location that is below something which is hanging or it could relate to a famous murder scene, talked about locally, representing historic value.  Billy Holiday and Woody Guthrie's anti-lynching songs serve to make the dark topic accessible.  I wouldn't say this hunt is totally lighthearted in design.  I think historical material will always have it's darker aspect.  Any young adult might be better off having to face or acknowledge history in that manner.  It's how we learn.

Just a question I've been pondering... If we can accept that Image 2, with its map of Charleston, actually points to Sullivan's Island, is it far fetched to conclude that Image 3, with its map of Roanoke Island, might actually point to one of the other nearby islands (Pea, Hatteras, Ocracoke, etc.)?

Verse 6 with Image 2 suggests an island by looking to the literary reference "Treasure Island". Image 3's outline of Roanoke island doesn't fully suggest to me some other island may be considered. Consider the lat/long numbers as a prime example of limiting a general area to approx 69 miles of lat and a range of miles depending on longitude (53 miles at 40 degree N).

Hirudiniforme wrote:: If we can accept that Image 2, with its map of Charleston, actually points to Sullivan's Island, is it far fetched to conclude that Image 3, with its map of Roanoke Island, might actually point to one of the other nearby islands (Pea, Hatteras, Ocracoke, etc.)? It's a fair point. But the verse says "Ride the man of oz / To the land near the window."

Gotta agree. The land near the window is undeniably Roanoke. The verse tells us to go there. There's just too much pointing that way to think of anything else.

rookhunter wrote:: Greetings TJ! Nice to have you aboard. The treasure in your city is quite the enigma. Hopefully we can crack the case. If you are ever in the area, would you mind taking pics of the area below? I think there might be something of interest there. Rook I have these...I've just been slacking lately 🙂 I will upload them this week. I've just gotten caught (back) up on this...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Here's a general ramble/recap on where I'm at with this one. Unfortunately I'd have to agree with Bigmatty that: When I put together my notes on Sullivan's Island... http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... amaris.pdf ...the area with the war memorial seemed a secluded, undisturbed spot. But revisiting on Google Maps it seems to have changed a lot even over the past couple of years...the cables I once saw as a possible confirmer are gone, there are large new green electrical installations and buried cables. I kind of hope it's not there now, although I still like it, and the ground directly beside the memorial is probably still untouched. But...digging next to a war memorial; digging next to a boundary marker that warns of fines and imprisonment; digging next to a tree; these all seem a bit unlikely to me. On the other hand, it seems to me that "twelve paces" away from one of these is too vague to be a clear instruction on where to dig...isn't it...? I don't know. I'd really like something more definite. Here are some updated notes on these two "white stone" candidates. http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc ... stones.pdf In the vicinity of the church, I’m also interested in the white “Osceola” street marker near the memorial, and an African tree in the church grounds someone mentioned as the “only standing member of a forest”. (The part of the introduction relating to this puzzle goes on about African trees.) If we could find a white granite wall that it was possible to dig next to, that might account for the “granite walls” in the verse, as well as the “white stone”. It doesn’t have to be “a white stone”, it could just be “white stone (wall)”. If I was going on a photo-taking tour of this area, I’d like to see: 1) Pics showing the area around the boundary stone…I’ve never seen a general overview around this area. 2) Pics showing the area at the bottom of 12th Station St. I feel this road is significant, with the white-tipped hour hand in the image pointing at 12, and the litany entry mentioning midnight. 3) Pics showing the back of the church, next to the parking lot. Anywhere to dig in the church grounds…? We know it’s not buried in a graveyard, but we also know we apparently need to ask permission to dig so perhaps it’s private. I’d also like to see exactly where this African tree is. 4) Some close-ups of the war memorial from different sides. White, I have a load of photos that I took around the area (as well as for Rook too). I think I even had the post typed up and just never submitted... Also, the one thing I liked about the boundary marker was that the 3 ending the '1963" and the 2 in "Moultrie-2" were rotated like in Image 2. http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image ... 7c8aa84e71 (I am caught up on all of this...not trying to re-state anything that has already been said...)

bonestructure" post="416653424 wrote:: Cask 2 - Charleston, SC This is what the geodetic triangulation marker looks like. I put a blue star on the Battery map to show its location. You can also go to the location (though you land a couple of feet off) in Google street view: http://goo.gl/maps/yNFNw Standing on the top of the seawall at the spot of the marker and looking toward the park, you see this.  The Fort Sumter statue is just to the left out of the shot.  The statue of General Moultrie you see in the picture is on the same spot where the USS Maine's capstan stood in the 1980s.  The "white house" is off to the right. High Battery is just that, it's about six feet high.  It is also about six feet wide and is flagged with slate to make a promenade on top of the wall.  The marker is on the water side of the wall at the edge of the promenade, embedded in the concrete surrounding the flagstones. The picture was taken while standing on top of High Battery on the promenade at the spot where the marker is embedded.  The gentleman in the blue shirt is standing at street level in the planting bed.  I plan to set a plumb line on top of the geodetic marker and run the string across the wall to drop down into the approximately 5-foot-wide planting bed that is between the wall of High Battery and the street. I'll then set markers for a foot on each side of the plumb line, which will give me an area approximately 2'x5' to dig in. The spot I'm going to dig looks like this.  It's hard-packed sand but it loosens when water is poured on it (and there's plenty of water handy I just have to bring a bucket.) The logic for choosing this spot:  I am assuming that the verse is not a series of descriptors of one spot, but more a set of directions to get you to the casque's location.  So the first part gives a general indicator for WPG, with the verse that paraphrases the opening of Treasure Island (a story about pirates) to point you to a location with a strong pirate association, then the bandstand (stand and listen), the Hunley marker with its fountains (cool clear sound of water), the Simms statue (harken to the words), the Jasper Revolutionary War monument (freedom at the birth of a century), the Maine capstan (May 1913, the date the Maine capstan was given to Charleston, that date appeared on a plaque on the capstan's pedestal), and the actual pirate monument (on the 8th a scene etc.) This gets you to the east end of the park.  The location then narrows down with "Between two arms extended" (stand in the area between the pointing arms of the Jasper and Sumter statues, facing the Battery and the harbor), below the bar that binds (the "bar that binds" is the Battery itself, below it is the planting bed), beside the long palm's shadow (there is a tall palmetto there, and I think Preiss wrote  the clue to specify the shadow, not the palm itself, because the casque is technically outside of the park proper), embedded in the sand (the sand-filled planting bed, because the only other major areas of sand in WPG are the walking paths and I tested them, they are hard-packed like cement and tremendously difficult to dig in.)  Preiss is being very specific here: the box is in sand, not soil, and the curious word choice, "embedded", hints at the planting bed.  Finally "white house close at hand", the large white mansion of 2 S Battery is in direct line of sight from the spot, about forty feet away. My logic for choosing the geodetic marker is a bit shakier; I am going by the coordinate numbers in the lion's mane (the geodetic marker is registered with the USGS using that latitude and longitude), because the marker is a triangulation marker and the Fort Sumter mask's string forms a triangle, and because the marker is directly in front of you when following the verse as I've laid out above.  It's a hunch, essentially.  🙂  I keep asking myself, well, if it is the marker, wouldn't Preiss have included some disguised version of the marker in the image?  I don't think so, because that would be too big of a clue.  A verse all about WPG, a visual that looks like the geodetic marker, bam, you dig there.  It would be too easily solvable, he had to leave the marker out of the image.  Or so I keep telling myself. You were right in your earlier post, confirmation bias is a real stumbling block here.  But I think this has as good a chance as most theories, so I'm going with it. A poster called bonestructure at SA came with up with an interesting theory about another of those markers at White Point Gardens, but couldn't get permission to dig.

I like the idea of the arms of the statues...I am more apt to side with the literal sense of the "...arms extended". Do you know who or what department bonestructure asked for permission?

tjgrey wrote:: Do you know who or what department bonestructure asked for permission? bonestructure" post="417280579 wrote:: Cask 2 - Charleston SC No one at the City of Charleston Parks and Recreation really wanted to look at my application before the holiday, so only now am I finally getting a response, and it's not an encouraging one. At first I was told that a permit to dig in the planting bed along High Battery might be issued if I was willing to put up a large damage bond.  The latest word, though, is that no permit will be issued to me or to anyone else who wants to dig for a cask in or around White Point Gardens. There is a blanket prohibition against metal detecting or digging in any public park in the city of Charleston, and for White Point Gardens in particular digging is a violation of SC's antiquities preservation act and can result in a large fine and\or jail time.  I was told that the only way digging for the cask could be authorized at WPG is if the request is coming as part of a formal archaeological survey sponsored by an accredited college or university, complete with a detailed dig plan that has been signed off on by the Preservation Society.  There have been digs like that before in peninsular Charleston, but the permitting and approval process takes literally years before anyone has been allowed to break ground. So, that's that. I had a brief, wild moment of wanting to sneak down there one night and just wildcat it, but I have to hold a security clearance for my job and getting arrested would definitely jeopardize that.  I'm not going to risk it.  If anyone else wants to take up that cudgel, feel free. This was the report...

Wow. Stonewalled. (Pun intended). Well, my angle was more toward a survey (of several specific locations to deduce) and (with hope) just seeing where it went with them from there. Do you know if any kind of ground radar or anything would 1. locate the casque 2. be available ?

Any ideas what we should see at the site from the image? I really don't see much to choose from.

Just for fun: 1968

It's a lion all right...the similarity ends there...

Wow, there's a lot going on in that image. Look closely at it for awhile. Figure vs. ground.

forest_blight wrote:: Wow, there's a lot going on in that image. Look closely at it for awhile. Figure vs. ground. You mean, it's not just a lion?

I have no doubt this is an influence.  I just don't see it being a clue in itself, particularly the roman numeral III as recerence to the 3 cent piece.

This poster of a lion (with people legs and faces ) is an influencer out of all the other images in the world (predating 1981) of lions? not a national geographic image or a childs book of animals, or even a ringling bros poster? What roman Numeral III?

Casque 2 Africa's Diamond, Image 2, Verse 6 I've already posted a main theory on this location as it fits with ALL the criteria except for any stupid misconceptions based on how people have "expertly" studied Cleveland and Chicago's reported solutions.  All the solutions deserve an adjustment in how we treat them. How does the Litany of the Jewels apply? Africa's Diamond, earth-born star, Bright harvest of the midnight rock earth-born star = literally "from the earth" + "celestial body" Bright harvest of the midnight rock = "rock that collects light at midnight" THE MOON.  How was the moon thought to have been formed?  From the earth right?  This was known or at least believed by many at the time this casque was buried.  I read that it was officially settled in 1984 that an impact event on the proto-earth material created the lunar body. Now, consider how this cryptic reference to the moon is applicable to this location.  My proposal is that it has to do with the moon and diamond both are rocks that reflect a light source.  This applies to my theory of a lighthouse which is a composition of a lamp and reflector.  This surely isn't the only possible interpretation, but it cooperates with various visual and textual interpretations. 1. (visual) Mythical interpretation of the lepidoptera identification: Polyphemus Moth = Polyphemus the Cyclops, giant with 1-eye, blinded by Odysseus.  Compare to tall lighthouse structure built in 1827 with it's lamp removed. 2. (visual) hidden in the shape of the daisy, the circular center of a daisy presented as an ellipse, matches the shape of the top of the reddish brick 1827 lighthouse as seen from a photo taken from the newer taller 1857 lighthouse built just 200 meters away (this lighthouse received it's lamp/reflector from the defunct 1827 lighthouse) 3. (textual) beside the long palm's shadow.  Each of the three words, "long, palm, and shadow" may be understood in different ways and have a specific implication depending on whether they are differential based on somethings surrounds.  In this case, there are two lighthouses, the shorter 1827 lighthouse with a "closed" top (having no light apparatus), and the taller (long?) 1857 lighthouse with an "open" (palm?) top.  In fact, the 1857 lighthouse does cast a daytime shadow that is next to the 1827 lighthouse. 4. (textual) Edwin and Edwina named after him.  Succession, the name "Edwin" being passed down from parent to child.  The "light" being passed "down" from the predecessor-house to successor-house. Perhaps the African element to this location is the "dark" association in the "blinded" 1827 lighthouse.  The older lighthouse represents the lion, the father, and the blind cyclops. Check this out, there is one pedal on the daisy that is shadowy, it might look like one of these cistern "arms", does it relative to the top of the lighthouse point to where the casque is buried at the cistern (below the bar that binds)?

What roman numeral III?

Does anyone see any kind of resemblance with the lines around the cross to the lower left in the lion's mane? I kind of see the outline of Middle St (possibly in two areas). Just throwing that out there... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

I'm adding the idea that the "drumming" theme fits the African cultural element, although drumming exists in many other cultures, I want to submit that the 'cool, clear sound' of water is hinting a jazz slang which is in itself of African cultural origin. Drumming is also the sound of birds retelling romance since its also the jargon for a bird type mating call. http://www.wildbirdseedmart.com/wild-bi ... act-a-Mate According to their biological purpose to detract predators, the large dots on the wings of Ms. Lepidotera may be called "eyes".  Perhaps there is an opportunity for homonymy with how diamonds are casually referred to as "ice". Another thought, loosely identifying things related to eating fruit as the golden pear suggests and relating to Odysseus, a story about lotus-eaters in North Africa, where those of his crew ate their fruit and didn't want to come back aboard the ship has me in wonder if this ties into the Civil War fruit that was commonly foraged, called persimmons. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persimmon_regiment

I am going to present my case for an on the ground exploratory expeditionto Patriots Point SC. Since we are stuck on this treasure location I though it wouldn't hurt to explore a new point of view. In the past I linked the line in verse 5 "a wingles bird ascended, born of ancient dreams of flight"  to the naval base musem and their Vietnam helicopters.  I believe there are other clues that point to this area. Exhibit "toothy grin face guy" I think this guy holds many clues, we just havn't found them yet. Notice the lines for the string he is hanging on. Those two lines represent the ferrys that go to Ft Sumter. As you can see in he next image they are similar. One of the ways to get to Fort Sumter is a ferry that leaves from Patriots Point . While we are on the subject of the toothy guy look at this next picture. The triangle shaped teeth in image 2 iseem to me to resemble the tops of these wooden pier poles they have near there. I live in a desert so I don't know if those are common or not so common but I find a resemblence. The Arthur Ravenel bridge which is also visible in the distance would the same place that the Pear man bridge would have been in 1982. This bridge me to my next point. Preiss has in the past put clues to lead us to places in real life. In this image the pear is clearly a clue to the bridge but why put the bridge as a clue? Preiss already put a map of Charleston in the image, why the pear? I think Preiss was trying to outline the area of Patriots Point by not only using the pear but also Coleman Ave which has already been established as outlined on the image as a branch from the pine. The final clue I think I picked up on is Verse 5's "Lane 222" Go to 222 Coleman and you will see this: Opposite of this you will see this sign: The clue Lane 222 may be an address that leads us to the entrance to Patriots Point and coincidentally where you would see an "arc of lights" from the bridge at night. I know these clues are not amazing but I do think it is worth a look around the area. There are pictures online of the boats and helicopters but I think we are looking for an out of the way area that may not show up on google, next to the pier perhaps. I dont think it would hurt to look.

Those are some interesting thoughts, Rookhunter.  West Coleman is a Boulevard, so may I suggest that if you are going to look in the area, look for the word "Lane" somewhere.  Since Lane is separate from 222 in the Verse, this would make sense that they would be 2 separate clues.

Excellent Rook! Definitely a different (new) perspective for V5. I did not forget either...I owe you some photos... Eg, my thoughts as well..."Lane" is one of the major parts of that verse that I could never see fitting for this location and I will definitely keep that clue in mind when I go over there. (Unless Lane was a road or marker that has changed in the last three decades....but all of the asking around I have done hasn't resulted in anyone recalling anything of the sort...) Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Deuce, I can't see what's happening here. Are you looking for a superimposed X marks the spot?

Thought I added a comment in that post. Guess not. I just haven't seen this mentioned as a state outline. I know this image is SC and everything but thought I would add this to the thread. If it was mentioned already my bad.

Charles Towne Landing Historic Site If the image is inverted, this swampy water area resembles the marks on the Lion's Forehead. http://goo.gl/maps/svBTj

Deuce wrote:: Thought I added a comment in that post. Guess not. I just haven't seen this mentioned as a state outline. I know this image is SC and everything but thought I would add this to the thread. If it was mentioned already my bad. This is good though! I think that image is a good confirmed of the state...just wish we could decide on either a verse or a spot in Charleston. I think with either of those pieces one could wholeheartedly work toward a single solution for this area. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

wk wrote:: Charles Towne Landing Historic Site If the image is inverted, this swampy water area resembles the marks on the Lion's Forehead. http://goo.gl/maps/svBTj I was talking to erexere about Charles Towne Landing at one point. There was a theory I had developing but the thing that killed it (my theory anyway) was the "...two arms extended...below the bar that binds..." part. I always thought that a pillory fit these lines and one of only two pillories that I know of that exist in Charleston is in Charles Towne Landing. I called them and asked and they told me their pillory was put there in the last decade (2006 if I remember right). And if anyone else were to mention that they like a pillory for those lines, the only other one that I've seen around, was just walking by it by chance, was at the Powder Magazine. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tj, I like the pillory idea, it certainly fits snug as one way to interpret those lines.  I wonder if the information about it's being located there in 2006 was inaccurate in some way.  Why would they put it there to begin with?  It's historical right?  Perhaps there was evidence of that history back in the 80's. I've had a lot of fun analyzing this image and it's verse.  I have a feeling I'm no where close to understanding it.

erexere wrote:: tj, I like the pillory idea, it certainly fits snug as one way to interpret those lines.  I wonder if the information about it's being located there in 2006 was inaccurate in some way.  Why would they put it there to begin with?  It's historical right?  Perhaps there was evidence of that history back in the 80's. I've had a lot of fun analyzing this image and it's verse.  I have a feeling I'm no where close to understanding it. I wondered that (hah enough to probably warrant a second call) too. And there is another pillory in front of the Powder Magazine downtown. And it stands next to two guns. (Attached) Yeah the divided camps for the verse fit to this image doesn't help in narrowing any one location. As I've said, I'd be happy to do any ground work here locally. Just trying to find a spot that's actually "dig-able" as if it's on historic property I think we we may be out of luck. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Also, as much as I like Charles Towne Landing, if we are going on the basis of seeing a major landmark or character for the city, one cannot see Fort Sumter from Charles Towne Landing...

I think people hold on to the idea that a clue must always be a physical place or object.  It sure makes sense to name a street or identify a major landmark shape, but then the digspot can still be miles away depending on the theme choice.  Does the fruit fall far from the tree?  Most say it doesnt.  It all depends.  Line of sight becomes especially important once youve identified the final markers.  I dont think Sumter is a final marker.  I dont think this is a very easy puzzle.  The verse is extremely hard to find anything that suits it. Major theme to contend with is Africa, then Civil War because of the historic relevance of Charleston.  I keep tbinking Preiss would want us to ask the question of what would those specific fairies do with the jewel?  The references about the African tree spirits and earth born star (diamond) from the supporting pages must figure in somehow.  Africa is hot often it becomes difficult to find water.  The Bilibao (i forget how to spell it...got hobbits on the brain) tree was a keeper of massive amounts of water.  I say my ideas concerning cisterns is the way to go.  Ive identified Cape Romain as the location that fits best but maybe thats wrong.  Maybe theres a cistern to be found in Charles Towne Landing or somewhere else nearer to Charleston or Sumter.

so if the pillory, was put there in 2006, where did it come from, or is it a replica maybe need to call again, would they let you see the docs on the info

the one at Charleston Battery Museum, is a replica http://www.flickr.com/photos/51744281@N08/4870759814/

you can Gman walk in some of the pks in charleston, on the paths and trails you can walk through the citadel too hampton http://goo.gl/maps/TTHiQ white point http://goo.gl/maps/v9xkH Search by name, area, amenity, keyword, etc. http://www.charlestonparksconservancy.org/our_parks/ http://www.charlestonparksconservancy.org/

cw0909 wrote:: so if the pillory, was put there in 2006, where did it come from, or is it a replica maybe need to call again, would they let you see the docs on the info Yes they said they put it in during a renovation then (2006 I think). I don't think it was moved from somewhere (I.e. An original piece). To me it sounds like it was constructed but I can't say. I can call them again but I'm just not sure entirely on the location itself. What do you guys think? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

cw0909 wrote:: the one at Charleston Battery Museum, is a replica http://www.flickr.com/photos/51744281@N08/4870759814/ Yeah I think that is the Powder Magazine-the surroundings in the pic from the site matches the one I took above. I haven't been inside there but I don't think there would be much digging *allowed* there either. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Did someone mention at one point that Preiss liked or preferred more obscure places to hide the casques? Or was that just implied from the two found? Reason I ask is, there could be many specific potential dog spots ruled out for Charleston if the he preferred obscure (not big/flashy/historical spots)... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tjgrey wrote:: Did someone mention at one point that Preiss liked or preferred more obscure places to hide the casques? Or was that just implied from the two found? Reason I ask is, there could be many specific potential dog spots ruled out for Charleston if the he preferred obscure (not big/flashy/historical spots)... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Other than the Preiss' listed exceptions for flower gardens and cemeteries, nothing is specifically mentioned, no.  At the same time though, we do know that he was burying the casks covertly, so I do consider the implications Preiss would have had to think about in terms of leaving a busted up patch of sod in a high traffic area. Pure speculation, but had I been Preiss, I would have been very concerned about someone randomly stumbling upon a "disturbed" area and checking it out without necessarily knowing anything about the hunt. There's an annual treasure hunt in my city involving a silver medallion and a similar situation has actually happened in the past (i.e. Someone not involved with the hunt uncovered the medallion and ended the game due to chancing upon it).

tjgrey wrote:: Did someone mention at one point that Preiss liked or preferred more obscure places to hide the casques? Or was that just implied from the two found? Reason I ask is, there could be many specific potential dog spots ruled out for Charleston if the he preferred obscure (not big/flashy/historical spots)... Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk i dont think obscure was his intention, maybe the challenge ,if you look at these 2 views i think if someone was looking they could see you, front and back http://goo.gl/maps/0NmYH http://goo.gl/maps/IHIGn

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Other than the Preiss' listed exceptions for flower gardens and cemeteries, nothing is specifically mentioned, no.  At the same time though, we do know that he was burying the casks covertly, so I do consider the implications Preiss would have had to think about in terms of leaving a busted up patch of sod in a high traffic area. Pure speculation, but had I been Preiss, I would have been very concerned about someone randombly stumbling upon a "disturbed" area and checking it out without necessarily knowing anything about the hunt. There's an annual treasure hunt in my city involving a silver medallion and a similar situation has actually happened in the past (i.e. Someone not involved with the hunt uncovered the medallion and ended the game due to chancing upon it). Thanks Merlot! I agree. Maybe part of the reason he buried them kind of deep at 2-3' was for that reason? I don't know many that would stumble on something in a public park or the like that deep. Unless park renovation... Anyway, just thinking about the historic sites here in Charleston. So MUCH falls under that when you talk parks, the downtown, forts, etc. I'm just trying to think from his point of view...because I doubt the NPS rules have relaxed much, even in 30 years. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

tjgrey wrote:: Yes they said they put it in during a renovation then (2006 I think). I don't think it was moved from somewhere (I.e. An original piece). To me it sounds like it was constructed but I can't say. I can call them again but I'm just not sure entirely on the location itself. What do you guys think? Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk Back to this, here is the email I received from someone at the College of Charleston library: "Here is some general information on pillories in SC. An SC law in 1785 authorized each county to build a stocks and pillory and whipping post. I scanned the list of laws passed in the city of Charleston before the American revolution and could find no specific mention of stocks or pillories." (It was just a couple scanned pages of a book that mentioned what pillories were used for. Nothing specific.) So my takeaway is, each county was authorized to build, but I'm not certain that there were really any (original) built. Think this idea is out.

Do the eyes of the African mask represent clouds with rain drops in the form of three short vertical lines?

Hey secret fans, I visited Charleston last week.  Lovely city, worth visiting.  I have an updated photo of the Persephone statue behind the Gibbes Museum, which I will upload later. Unfortunately, I didn't stumble upon a casque or even a new clue.  We walked all around the Gibbes and Gateway Walk looking for clues.  No avail. I feel like the shape in the mask eyes that exerexe is referring to as "clouds with rain drops" may be the next physical clue.  Just a hunch.  Maybe we can recruit a searcher from the College of Charleston or the Citadel.  Seems like this hunt would be fun for a local college student. AnotherDoth

I know a rebus has been brought up for Image 2 with the "Pearman" Bridge, but what about the tips of the clock hands as "white point/points" for White Point Garden? Have I read this before? Either way, I think it's a pretty solid indicator of the park for the area...

The wing tips of the moth look like the "white points" for that interpretation.

As for the cloud with rain drops symbol, I think it should be worth considering the idea that the "cool clear sound of water," which we should be hearing might be the sound of rain drops. I feel this is a great link to a water cistern, which has rain water collection written all over it. I've already theorized that the bar (place to go have a drink) that binds (something that holds) could be a riddle about a cistern. A couple lines of verse AND a symbol on the image in the form a rain cloud together make a pretty sizable reference to ONE THING, which makes me really think a specific cistern barrel is our target goal for locating the next casque.

The LotJ for this location, the Diamond seems to support the idea of a lighthouse. V6 maybe supports the idea of a lighthouse. I'm thinking a "white house" might just be a "white light house". The image seems to be hiding the shape or outline of a tall structure, maybe that's a lighthouse. Of all the puzzles, this really seems to me a good candidate to use a lighthouse. I found a 1975 book about Lighthouses. Maybe it will contain something like a quote or other visual supporting evidence. (hope to get it in a week or so, will report back after I page through it.)

This image is in "Abroad from America". It is on page 119, the chapter on Fredrika Brema. At first glance, it looks like the hill thing in the middle (underneath the tree) kind of resembles the mask with the map of the Charleston peninsula. Maybe not, but if we were onto the idea that there was a particular painting/drawing that inspired the theme of each image (like the woman in the Milwaukee image),this kind of has some similar parts. It states: " Southern Vegetation , by Fredrika Bremer, ink on paper, circa 1850. Carolina Rediviva Library, Universitetsbiblioteket, Uppsala. Tiring of the bleak winter and severe morality of New England, Fredrika Bremer headed for the milder climate of the South in February 1850, arriving in Charleston, South Carolina, in mid-March. Her travels through South Carolina, Georgia, and Florida left her in awe of the South's extravagance. Possessed of a "wild, luxuriant beauty defying the power of man," the sensuous southern landscaped was "un-speakably interesting" to her."

I can see where you're coming from. And I can tell you that, at the point where you think those images have any relation in connection with the puzzle, you've completely lost the plot.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I can see where you're coming from. And I can tell you that, at the point where you think those images have any relation in connection with the puzzle, you've completely lost the plot. I'm not saying I think this image is a direct match. I was just throwing it out there as someone said in the Milwaukee thread that there was a painting (or something) that could have been the source or idea for JJP when the images were created because this was in Abroad as well.

I have the solution for image 2, verse 5. I visited the site this morning and will attempt to put all information into format for solution. After thirty years, under an oak tree, I do not believe I will get permission to dig. Hopefully, the site will have a record of when it was buried. I will be contacting them on Monday, Sept. 22, 2014. Wish me luck.

Good luck. How did it go?

So, I believe I have found the "iconic" building image in Image 2... It aligns just right and appears when you are standing at the correct spot, just like Milwaukee! I don't want to give it away though because I feel like it will tie together quite a bit, and because it gives us a definitive search location. I'm going to see if dellucc wants to take a crack at a theory that I (and one other player) have before I let the "cat" out of the bag.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: So, I believe I have found the "iconic" building image in Image 2... It aligns just right and appears when you are standing at the correct spot, just like Milwaukee! I don't want to give it away though because I feel like it will tie together quite a bit, and because it gives us a definitive search location. I'm going to see if dellucc wants to take a crack at a theory that I (and one other player) have before I let the "cat" out of the bag. Please tell me it's got to do with the lines behind the pear & daisy, and the "sunglasses" shape...I can't line those up with anything.

Also, has anyone looked at the base of the Confederate Defenders monument as the pattern in the wings (instead of cannonballs or cobblestones)? Cannonballs are so uniform, and the spacing between the stones on Chalmers St. seems too great. These seem like a pretty good match IMO. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7693757 ... PA!2e0!3e5

tjgrey wrote:: Also, has anyone looked at the base of the Confederate Defenders monument as the pattern in the wings (instead of cannonballs or cobblestones)? Cannonballs are so uniform, and the spacing between the stones on Chalmers St. seems too great. Could they be grapes?

The Citadel has a baseball field. "Joseph P. Riley Jr. park". and " Star of the West Monument" and Wind swept halls.

Has anyone noted that there is something wrong with the cut of the diamond? If there is not a clue there, then that is the ugliest gem cut that I have ever seen.

Image 2 is most definitely Charleston, SC. The woman is depicted as a slave. The gem and clock is for April, Mr. Preiss was a history teacher and the most important historical events for April: Civil War began with "First shot fired" 4/12/61 from Fort Sumter. Union held. These didn't happen in April but relevant for slavery, Charleston and the Civil War. From the Northern point of Morris Island, Citadel Cadets fired upon the ship "Star of the West" 1861. Citadel was confederate and The Star was bringing supplies to Fort Sumter. 1/1861 Slave auctions were held at the intersection of Broad and East street but due to traffic problems they were banned from outdoor sale and moved to"Ryan's Mart" on Chalmer's Street, the only, still existing slave auction building in SC. It was own by the Sheriff Thomas Ryan.

Lions forehead appears to be the reverse image of Charleston waterway. I can make out Charleston's' Peninsular, Cooper river, Wando river and Mt. Pleasant. I noticed that each MAP image does not include Sullivan Island. There is also an unusual outline, of woman's right wing, that matches a distinct waterway for image 7.

wk wrote:: Charles Towne Landing Historic Site If the image is inverted, this swampy water area resembles the marks on the Lion's Forehead. http://goo.gl/maps/svBTj yes, I had this idea last year. Unfortunately, the outline seems to change depending on the view, map or tide.

Yeah, and with Charles Towne Landing, there are several things that have happened more recently (since the 2000s). I always liked the idea, but I could never find the visuals there, and from the times I've gone anyway, you can't really get too far into the historic landmarks and such without having to pay for a ticket to get in. (Unless this was different in the 70s/80s...) I always liked the pillory as "two arms extended...bar that binds" too...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: A poster called bonestructure at SA came with up with an interesting theory about another of those markers at White Point Gardens, but couldn't get permission to dig. I thought that Bonestructure's proposed solution of White Point Garden was fairly persuasive. Unfortunately, we may have missed our window of opportunity. It looks like the city of Charleston is doing some major renovations on that spot where the high battery meets the low battery: http://www.charleston-sc.gov/index.aspx?NID=1065 You can see the satellite view of the work here: https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7695639,-79.9289249,77m/data=!3m1!1e3 Don't give up hope, though! The satellite view is still showing those bushes along the east side of E. Battery, and that's the place where Bonestructure thought the casque was in the sands. If that bit of ground needed to be excavated, I'm sure the construction company would have started by tearing out the plants. Does anyone in Charleston feel like going down to White Point Garden and giving us a on-the-spot update about the conditions at the worksite? (Maybe someone could even get a manual labor job on the project and do a little digging on the side during a lunch break!)

Oregonian, What was Bonestructure's theory there? The construction has completed...it has been for a little while now (couple of months maybe?). I was down there and the part of the high battery seawall has been re-modeled. The concrete is all new. If he is talking the flower beds, there's a good chance they were dug up and/or replaced/redone. There is now a small wall containing the bushes and flowers, not just a curb. It may still be there though. It's a very public spot, but very easy to drive right up to and park 😉 I'll attach images when I can!

tjgrey wrote:: Oregonian, It may still be there though. It's a very public spot, but very easy to drive right up to and park 😉 I'll attach images when I can! I agree completely... WPG is an awesome spot!

Here you go: Construction finished. http://www.abcnews4.com/story/26154353/ ... y-complete Here is what the new part of the seawall look like: http://wciv.images.worldnow.com/images/4351027_G.jpg

tjgrey wrote:: What was Bonestructure's theory there? For Tjgrey, and anyone else who's interested, Bonestructure's Charleston solve was part of the Something Awful thread. (Scroll down to June 19, 2013 to see the refined version of the solution.) Basically she says that Verse 6 is taking us on a stroll through White Point Garden. There are references to the bandstand and the fountain and the various monuments. We end up at the High Battery looking across East Battery at the park. The large white mansion of 2 S. Battery is nearby. ("White house close at hand.") The casque would be buried in the sand at the base of the High Battery. Bonestructure tried to get permission to dig last year, but the city told her that "digging is a violation of SC's antiquities preservation act and can result in a large fine and\or jail time." But, of course, now they're doing a major multimillion-dollar digging project and a tiny, little hole to look for the casque seems trivial by comparison. So, who knows? Maybe it could happen. It would be great if someone in Charleston could use Bonestructure's photos to get current shots of the same locations. Is the geological survey marker still there? It looks like the construction work was mostly at the corner, so our dig spot may still be intact. It may be premature to put this one in the "unrecoverable" category just yet.

Oregon, Right. Definitely don't write this one off! I do think the geoditic marker is still there. I will walk up there next time I'm at WPG. I think it was just the lower part of that walk/wall, including the flower beds, curb, and just the front of part of the high seawall in a spot (where you walk up on...the rest of the high part wasn't changed to my knowledge). Which brings up...can this be dug in as part of The Secret rules (a flower bed)? I don't think if BP pointed us to the park that it would be right outside of the park...he kind of stuck to public parks, I can't imagine if the clues pointed to the park that the casque wouldn't be in the park. Just my take on it. Yes, I have some photos (having issues getting anything posted), and I will get down there and take some more from the seawall.

My theory was a bust. I had a meeting with two Generals at the Citadel College of Charleston. They were very eager to help in any way possible and very excited about the actual hunt. Number one, they were there in 1981 and have no record of Mr. Preiss being there. Number two, the helicopter was not placed till 1996, and other monuments have been moved to different locations since that time. All in all, Summerall Field is not the location of the casque. I did take a good look at the forehead of the lion. The pattern is a reverse image of the waterways of Charleston. I can easily match the distinctive shape of an inlet near Road 703 and the Cooper and Wando rivers.

dellucc wrote:: ... I can easily match the distinctive shape of an inlet near Road 703 and the Cooper and Wando rivers. LOL! I have a Wando athletics shirt on today. Brings back good memories. BTW - way to go making some progress in the hunt by being physically involved!

Hi Everyone: Seems like this thread had stalled. I'm in Charleston all week. I have just finished photo-surveying Washington Square and will be doing the same with White Point Gardens tomorrow. Let me know if anyone would like specific photos taken while I'm there.

I'm curious if the black haired woman in a bikini, gold bracelets, next to a lion is a reference to Calypso. It seems to fit the same pattern of a comic book appearance in 1980. Calypso and Polyphemus both factor into the Odysseus story. It's possible that "hear the cool, clear sound of water" and "beneath the bar that binds" could refer to a steel drum that holds drinking water.

There's a name for the type of cut or shape of a diamond. The diamond illustrated here is called the "cushion" or "candlelight" cut. Interestingly, there is also a "pear" cut type of diamond. Looks like a little bit of thought went into the choice of drawing a pear and moth here.

In the past there's been some interest in Washington Square Park. Eg it's been pointed out that the "Persephone" statue at the nearby Gibbes museum is a possible match for wonder woman, and the Washington Light Infantry monument is a possible candidate for the 'mystery obelisk' on the mask. Given that the image features a clock signifying April in the shape of Fort Sumter, I also like jstarr's old observation about the park's April Fort Sumter time capsule. I'm just mentioning this place again because I don't know if it's been considered much with V5. Lane Two twenty two Although there's clearly stuff in these verses that you can only see when you're walking around, the book also claims that you might figure one out without leaving your house. "Two twenty two" might indicate Feb 22nd, Washington's birthday. This has been mentioned before, but I'm not sure if it's been explicitly linked with Washington Square Park. I think jstarr and others were only looking at the more popular V6 and ignoring the Poe angle. Quick Poe reminder: his story "The cask of Amontillado" features "walls of solid granite", his "Gold Bug" story features buried treasure on Sullivan's Island found by hanging a weight from a tree, and his "Balloon Hoax" features the arrival there of a hot air balloon ("wingless bird"). There's also the Citadel link, the logo being a nice match for "Citadel in the night". Has anyone investigated any white stone / twelve paces in this place...?

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Lane Two twenty two WhiteRabbit wrote:: There's also the Citadel link, the logo being a nice match for "Citadel in the night". There is an unassuming, industrial street on the east side of Charleston called "Washington Street," which would mesh well with "lane." It doesn't look too promising from Google's street view, though. Now that is interesting, and not something I recall reading here before. Nice insight.

animal painter wrote:: Notice the similarity of the torso and the rounded belly. Just an afterthought, but looking at the Ellis eagle... It's worth noting that the head and tongue is close enough to be a convincing match, even though the rest of the body isn't. And with Persephone, the belly is good even if the arms are wrong. It's like the Juneau hand; Ponce de Leon too. There are certain matches that are convincing just in a small detail of the overall subject, but the pose or the rest of the character might be changed. (When I first saw Persephone I didn't really buy it because the overall figure didn't seem that similar, but I like it better now.)

Yep. The same could be said for the Statue of Liberty -- only the face is a match.

I have a cultural note for anyone interested in some of the introductory text. Whiterabbit mightve asked about this, but I couldnt find it in a search. Also, I dont have my book anymore, so i might be fuzzy on the details. There was a phrase used in the story about the African fair folk or tree spirits: "jump up". From context, you know it had to do with dancing to drums. In a book about the early days of Calypso music. Major recognition in America came from huge artists known as Lion in the 1930's and 40's, and Sparrow in the 50's. The term "jump up" is loosely connected to the Carribbean but it was popularly used in connection with drum bands from Trinidad and Tobago. Does anyone have a good archive collection of National Geographic? This is very old in my memory, but I did a school presentation on Trinidad in 1980 and cited an issue of National Geographic which went into such details. I would like to know if "jump up" was used in that article. I still think the moth winged woman is Calypso, supporting the idea that the treasure is somewhere in conndction with a steel drum cistern. A container for holding (bind) water for drinking (a bar) is more accessible a notion to me than earthquake bolts. I like the association that drumming might have to an earthquake, but I wonder if its just too loose a fit.

forest_blight wrote:: Yep. The same could be said for the Statue of Liberty -- only the face is a match. Made me think of the fairy that represents the Spirit of the Great Lakes sculpture in Image 5. A similar stylistic choice there too

Also keep in mind a 1980 Kodak Polaroid didn't have the greatest resolution so we should take that into account also.

decibalnyc wrote:: Also keep in mind a 1980 Kodak Polaroid didn't have the greatest resolution so we should take that into account also. I wish I had a polaroid sx-70 with film to go to my locations and take photos, I think the distortion/focal length would make it easier to identify the actual spots he viewed things from

From what I remember about those, he would have had to be right up on something for it to be a detailed picture...there was no zoom on those and it had a wide angle.

A Christmas raffle in 1980 gained me a Sonar One-step and a lifetime supply of color film. It was an awesome camera.

erexere wrote:: A Christmas raffle in 1980 gained me a Sonar One-step and a lifetime supply of color film. It was an awesome camera. does that mean you still get polaroid film? that would be a cool trick.

I got about 2 years of good use out of it. I brought home 2 dozen packs of film initially but they screwed me out of collecting packs in the future when they said I was actually too young to have entered the raffle in the first place. I didnt have any immediate family to help me so someone I didnt know who was over 18 helped me collect what I could, but then they retained the voucher to continue collecting film.

maltedfalcon wrote:: I wish I had a polaroid sx-70 with film to go to my locations and take photos, I think the distortion/focal length would make it easier to identify the actual spots he viewed things from This is the image 2 thread so I wont discuss the frustration involved in the Image 1 "Gh" being the Ghirardelli building.

Ivan Mestrovic's work was featured in the Chicago puzzle. His Persephone has some similarity though it's no where near Charleston. Could be Preiss/JJP reall liked Mestrovic's work. I'm compelled to think the connection we should make is that there's a Greek Mythology compenent to the African puzzle.

I'm telling you, man, there's no woman in the picture--just a well-camouflaged rabbit. And no matter where I am, it's staring at me. Joking aside, I just learned something new. There's an insect called the "Rabbit Moth" (Megalopyge opercularis) that's native to the Southern Atlantic coast between North Carolina and Florida. Unfortunately, a Google search for "siamese clogs" turned up nothing.

That's about as scary as the vorpal rabbit of Caerbannog... I'm revising my view that the moth characteristics are solely polyphemus. The hooked tips of the wing are more like the atlas moth. Maybe we're dealing with a blend. My theory is that this is about relating Polyphemus to Odysseus and Calypso to Atlas. I'm still looking at Denmark Vesey formerly known as Telemachus (same name as Odysseus' son) connection.

Frisco wrote:: Joking aside, I just learned something new. There's an insect called the "Rabbit Moth" (Megalopyge opercularis) that's native to the Southern Atlantic coast between North Carolina and Florida. In before Egbert shows up to tell you this belongs in the "High Brow" thread. Just having a little fun, Eg.

We know Edward Wilmot Blyden lived in Sierra Leone and his grandson Edward Wilmot Blyden III became the first advisor to the president. Sierra Leone borders the country of Liberia, which we know has it's roots in the history of Charleston, SC. We also know Sierra leone is also a major player in the diamond mining industry, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mining_in_Sierra_Leone I've been attempting to answer the question of what about Sierra Leone or Liberia helps point us in the right direction of a location in Charleston? (see verse 6 discussion) I've been thinking the teeth of the pendant/clock/Sumter are jagged like the teeth of a saw or the triangles are like facets of a diamond. I'm also wondering if the triangles are an attempt to recognize the http://www.landofthebrave.info/triangular-trade.htm

Or this 1982 video compelled BP to walk the dog of Oz.... https://youtu.be/FTQbiNvZqaY J/k even though Mt. Kilmanjaro rises like Olympus over the Syren Jetty...right there, these Toto guys must've been heavy into Greek Mythology.

erexere wrote:: Or this 1982 video compelled BP to walk the dog of Oz.... https://youtu.be/FTQbiNvZqaY J/k even though Mt. Kilmanjaro rises like Olympus over the Syren Jetty...right there, these Toto guys must've been heavy into Greek Mythology. Whoa! Hold the line, erexere. It's Serengeti.

Heh. Can't sneak in a little disinformation with Merlot on the case...

erexere wrote:: Heh. Can't sneak in a little disinformation with Merlot on the case... I get the wordplay, just wanted to.. oh nevermind.

But let's just get this straight, for the record. You honestly are suggesting that Bryon Preiss cleverly hid a clue into Image 2 of his 1982 book The Secret, which required you to not only listen to, but understand and decipher the lyrics to Toto's "Africa", and this is what gives you the "A-HA!" moment to what? We already know and agree that Image 2 = Charleston regardless of Preiss' backstage connections with Steve Porcaro, right?

Do we need to find a statue of Rosanna Arquette?

For the record, I was kidding, but I still have some curiosity about the "strange fruit" being a lynching reference. Any historic markers about lynching might've been a supporting hint whether its pirates or those executed along with Vesey.

Note that the orientation of the map clue shape of Charleston 1) doesn't suggest a top-is-north perspective, and 2) isnt consistent with the orientation of the Sumter shape. I suspect the position and orientation of one or both of these clues is important to judging the general direction of where to go looking for a casque. One interpreration would support White Point Gardens, another would support looking somehere NE of Charleston.

I've been looking at the mask in this picture today and was wondering if it had been identified before. I've searched what I've found on the forum and haven't seen anything mentioned. To me the mask resembles a "Dan mask" from the Dan people of the Ivory Coast. These particular masks contain slit eyes, high foreheads and a pointy chin. They also regularly feature a break on the bridge of the nose and through the middle of the forehead. A Google of Dan mask in images will provide many examples. None exactly resemble our mask, but they contain features which seems to have been accumulated to create ours. They also seem to hold beliefs which make me think of the free folks story. The masks are used to communicate with the spirit world, and the masks are said to contain the spirit they are trying to contact. I can't find a link between them and Charleston yet, or if the mask is coincidental. http://www.artyfactory.com/africanmasks/masks/dan.html

Ashsimmonds- Pretty sure this is to be a reference to a Fang Ngil style mask. Some of the smart folks noticed this awhile back. Here is a good list: http://www.randafricanart.com/Fang_ngil.html

I don't think it necessarily has to have any specific connection to Charleston. It seems like most of the images contain a nod to the country of origin of that particular group of Fair Folk (i.e. the falcon for Italy, dragon for China, columns for Greece, masquerade/marionette mask for France, etc). The map of Charleston hidden on the mask is the major clue, the eyes could be doubling as earthquake bolts for another, and the line that runs through the middle of the forehead and over the rightmost eye may be something as well. It's possible there some other connection with Charleston (like a similar mask being on display in a local art museum--seemingly a favorite locale for BP), but I wouldn't be shocked if there wasn't.

I'm trying to understand this one detail on the Sumter shape. I'm thinking of just two possibilities but neither establish or come from a firm location or setting. The triangles on the "mouth" might be bunched together to mimic a feature at a site such as a house with two large triangles and several smaller triangles such as this example: Or, the trinagles could be symbolic of numbers. Two large triangles bookending twelve small triangles might represent "tens" and "ones" for some number like 10 + 1+1+1+1+1+1 +1+1+1+1+1+1 + 10 = 32. Could be that's a Latitude number, since Charleston is at 32.77

Who is the lepidoptera woman? The statue of Persephone at the Gibbes Museum of Art in Charleston is a decent comparison. Or is she Penelope, daughter of Icarus?

With consideration of the May issue of National Geographic in 1913 and the article titled the Monsters in Our Backyards, about insects, I think an interesting notion about identifying the wings of the woman in the Charleston image as that those of the Polyphemus moth, the same name as the "monster" in Calypso's backyard, Polyphemus who was blinded by Odysseus during his escape from the island. Combine this with the notion that Denmark Vesey also had the same name as the son of Odysseus and that he bought his freedom at the birth of a century in Charleston we start seeing how the puzzle takes context.

Recap on what I discovered: this is more than anything you mihht find on the pbwiki... The introductory story un the Secret about the migration of the Fair Folk used the following phrases and references in connection with the African culture: "The Glory that was Greece" (and a reference to the god Pan) "Jump up" (Trinidad and Tobago local color meaning "dance contest") These phrases also appear in quotation marks in the November 1971 issue of National Geographic Magazine in an article about the "Pan" drum.

Dero’s post has encouraged me to post my thoughts on the Charleston casque. I have not thoroughly read through all past posts so I apologize if my thoughts are old news. I discovered The Secret and this forum in January ’16 so I am definitely late to this party. I do think it is so cool that some of you have been at this for decades now. And I have figured out that a lot of ya’ll are working together off the grid, which makes it not as fun for some of us newbies that would love to have your latest thoughts. That being said, I would love feedback. When I first started looking at the Charleston image, I found it frustrating because it didn’t seem to have things drawn in the image like the fencepost for the Chicago casque. I then found on the forum that a good number of people thought that the Charleston casque was in WPG so I took the verse, ignored the image, and decided that it was in one of three places. My best guess (without actually visiting WPG) was that it was across the street from where the USS Maine Capstan once stood on East Battery. Before too long, I discovered another forum where someone named Bone Structure had already come up with the same place and a number of people had concluded she was right. Sadly, I then found photos of the spot being completely rebuilt after the hurricane. If it was in that spot, it is now most assuredly gone. While waiting on the opportunity to go to WPG to check out my other two spots, Erexere posted a message that had to do with geometric lines. I began wondering if I could find something in Image 2 that would function as instructions that would lead one to WPG via lines. Once I had my theory, I went to WPG and upon actually going through the city, I eliminated two of my three options of dig spots (including my original top choice spot.) Ironically, the verse currently has me questioning whether or not WPG is correct, although I am convinced the image takes you to WPG. FYI, I have no idea what I am doing regarding posting pictures. I have attempted to put pictures in an album in photobucket. I hope it works. Once again, some of you likely figured all this out in the 80’s. Forgive me if this is old news. Here is my attempt to decipher the image: A) The most obvious landmark in Image 2 is Fort Sumter. Therefore, start there. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... wbkqmi.jpg B) From Fort Sumter, take the return ferry to the the ferry's departure point: http://www.fortsumtertours.com/quick-answers/ The ferry departs and returns in Downtown Charleston at Liberty Square’s Fort Sumter Visitors Center, 340 Concord St. Charleston, SC 29401 http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... bv9oz9.jpg C) 340 Concord intersects with Calhoun Street. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... pypf3e.jpg Note: There is a flagpole that is surrounded by a semicircle—I have no idea if the ears of the lion represent this, but you do pass it on the way to Calhoun Street. (Flag pole is in between B and C. On map it says Freedom Lane.) http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... wmu033.jpg Once on Calhoun Street, head to King Street which is represented by lion in image 2. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... 0ltqv8.jpg D) Before you get to King Street, you will come to Meeting Street. I believe that the “h” in the mask is referring to the Hampton Obelisk, which is on Calhoun and Meeting. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... jlg8jn.jpg http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... ccoszd.jpg Hampton Obelisk Date Created/Placed: 1911 Address: Calhoun and Meeting st. Charleston South Carolinia (Marion Square) Height: 30 ft. (There are two obelisks in Charleston, hence the need for the h in image 2. http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM4HNK The other one is on Broad and Meeting. http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM45 ... h_Carolina ) -When you see the “h” landmark on Calhoun (Hampton Obelisk), turn Left on Meeting Street and head toward White Point Garden (represented by the white on the moth or butterfly). http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... 1q9oaw.jpg Note: Meeting Street is parallel to King Street. The h in the nose of the mask (Hampton Obelisk) is parallel to the nose of the lion (King Street). Also, the top of the h on the map is very near where the obelisk actually is if you look at a city map of Charleston.). E) On Meeting Street, on the way to WPG, you will pass Gibbes Museum of Art. I believe the girl in Image 2 is a reference to the statue outside the Museum. I copied picture from animal painter’s Oct 18, 2009 post. At some point, I read something about the girl being a nod to the Flying Charleston and the Hand to Hand Charleston (dances). I thought that was pretty clever. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... asqs7i.jpg Stay on Meeting, keep heading to WPG. F) From Meeting Street, cross the street into WPG. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... qnvjga.jpg From this point, we need verse 6. To be continued…

Continued. I don’t have a clue what some of the verse means; maybe some of you can help me. Most of this is on the forum already. I am using the numbers in the landmark map to indicate what I am referring to. If you would like to see pictures of some of the landmarks, here is a link: http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/108 ... 0Landmarks . White Point Garden is where they hung the pirates. Of all the romance retold – Treasure Island Men of tales and tunes –What kind of men? Sailors Cruel and bold—What kind of sailors? Pirates Seen here—Pirates were seen here hanging for several days. By eyes of old—a long time ago. When you step into WPG from Meeting Street, the first thing you see is the Hunley Memorial that has a fountain (17). If you keep walking, you come to a gazebo that once served as a Band Stand (18). Stand and listen to the birds: I assume “stand” refers to the band stand(18). I have no idea what time of year BP was in Charleston, but I did find a website that stated that Yellow Crowned Night Herons nest every year in the oak trees in WPG. Maybe BP was there during this season?? Does anyone have any other ideas what the bird reference could be? http://glimpsesofcharleston.com/we-just ... -they-are/ Hear the cool, clear song of water: I am assuming that this refers to either the Hunley fountain (17) and/or the river, ocean and harbor on the other side of the bandstand (low battery on map). Standing in the bandstand, you will have water on both sides. I am assuming the “clear song” refers to bandstand. Harken the words: From the bandstand, head to to the Simms statue (16). Simms was a famous writer and orater, hence “Harken the words.” I am wondering if BP is giving us four points, and that the casque is buried between the four points. Point A (15) --Freedom at the birth of a century: No real clue, but I will throw out two thoughts. 1) I have wondered if this could refer to Liberia (in that Liberia means freedom). I don’t think it could have referred to Simms since from everything I have read, he was pro slavery. However, the verse seems to move to a contrast thing with the “Ors”, so maybe there is an intentional comparison of freedom vs. slavery—but how this line helps us find a casque is beyond me. 2) My other thought is that maybe “Freedom at the birth of a century” could refer to the Jasper Monument (15). Jasper distinguished himself in the defense of Fort Moultrie (then called Fort Sullivan) on June 28, 1776. Thomas Jefferson's wrote the Declaration of Independence in June of 1776. BP published the book in 1982. That is pretty close to the bicentennial. Could it be a nod toward 1776?—I wonder if that year is anywhere on the Jasper Monument. Century—100 years? Bicentennial—200 years? I know—it is a bad stretch, but from my perspective, this line either has nothing to do with any landmark in WPG (rather a Liberia reference) or it is has to do with the Jasper Monument. Point B (8)--Or May 1913: This date was on the USS Maine Capstan.(was once located at #8) Point C--Edwin and Edwina named after him: Edward Wilmot Blyden had a connection with both Liberia and Charleston. Blyden, like Simms, was also an author. Unlike Simms, he was not pro-slavery. This is my most ridiculous idea: This line has either nothing to do with a landmark in WPG (rather a Liberia reference) or could it be a weird reference to the fraternal twin looking palms near the spot where the USS Maine Capstan once stood. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... xng8x3.jpg Point D (3)--Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended: I think this refers to the small monument about pirates that is on South Battery. It is almost parallel to the twin palms. I think that there is something significant about the “OR”s, but I don’t know what. Once you are in between those four points, get between two arms extended. Between two arms extended: I think this is referring to the long cannons that the USS Maine sat between (7) and (9). I know that some have speculated that the two arms could be the arms on the statues. I think the picture of the moth or butterfly in Image 2 tell us that the two arms are cannons. You can see the two cannons in the picture with the twin palms. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... xng8x3.jpg Below the bar that binds: I am assuming that this is referring to the capstan that is no longer there (8). It could be referring to the battery wall. This may be a stretch as well, but I am assuming it means that the casque is buried in the sand along this path. Beside the long palm's shadow: Initially, I saw this as having two options: either the palm of a hand on one of the statues or the really tall palm in WPG. If it was referring to the really tall palm, I wanted to see where the shadow of the tree fell at 4 pm. I thought maybe it would fall or point across the street toward the battery wall. I took this picture at 4 pm. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... dww5mx.jpg Even if BP was there during a different time of year (spring forward or fall back Day light saving time), I don’t think the shadow is going to fall on anything near sand. Seeing the shadow of the really tall palm eliminated my thoughts that the casque could have been buried a) across the street by the battery wall or b) near the capstan. Both of those place would have been beneath a bar that binds and between two arms extended. I was quite happy to find that the shadow of the tall palm did not point to where the USS Maine Capstan once stood because I was concerned that the casque would have been destroyed if there was any digging to replace it with the other monument. Side note: I have wondered if the flat center of the daisy referred to the Fort Sumter Monument at the corner of Murray Blvd and East Battery. (In the shadow of the tall palm picture above, the top of the shadow of the tall palm touched it.) I have seen aerial pictures of WPG where that monument looks like a flat disk. The monument is surrounded by what looks like 16 concrete petals. In image 2, the daisy has 17 petals. One is bent. When I look at it, it reminds me of “He loves me, He loves me not,” like I need to pull one off. No idea if this is what JPP was trying to convey. If there was sand around that monument in the 80’s, maybe the spot beside the shadow of the tall palm is significant. Finally—where I think the casque could be buried: I think that the long palm’s shadow may be referring to the hand on the Jasper monument. https://www.flickr.com/photos/hunky_punk/9263287324 Beside the long palm’s shadow, meaning in front of the extended fingers, there is a bricked in bed of greenery. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... fyny8y.jpg If the shrubs are planted the same way underneath the statue as they were in the 80’s, there is a clear spot where a casque could have been buried. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... 1etjzk.jpg I would not have thought BP would bury something in a bed of bushes, but he did with the one Egbert dug up. If it was buried there, it may still be safe after the hurricane. My problem with this is that I grew up near the beach. And I would see the garden bed as being filled with dirt, rather than sand. However, right outside that garden bed is the long path through WPG that could easily be called sand—though it is extremely packed and hard sand. I wonder if the casque is buried right beside the extended hand in the sand. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... h0kgmc.jpg Embedded in the sand, Waits the Fair remuneration, White house close at hand: What convinced me that this is most likely the spot is that while I was standing there taking pictures, I glanced to right to see a building that looked a lot like a miniature White House close at hand. The white house called the Villa Marguerita on the corner of Church Street and South Battery is parallel to the spot. http://i1347.photobucket.com/albums/p71 ... ul5nyn.jpg I was not standing right next to the Jasper Monument when I took the picture of the white house. But it is the closest house to the Jasper Monument. Also, you can see a tall palm in the picture, but it's shadow would not be near two arms extended. Does anyone know if someone has tried to dig up this spot? Would love to have ya’lls thoughts. Please let me know if I need to clarify anything or if the pictures do not work. New to this.

gajojo wrote:: B) From Fort Sumter, take the return ferry to the the ferry's departure point: http://www.fortsumtertours.com/quick-answers/ The ferry departs and returns in Downtown Charleston at Liberty Square’s Fort Sumter Visitors Center, 340 Concord St. Charleston, SC 29401 gajojo wrote:: E) On Meeting Street, on the way to WPG, you will pass Gibbes Museum of Art. I believe the girl in Image 2 is a reference to the statue outside the Museum. I copied picture from animal painter’s Oct 18, 2009 post. At some point, I read something about the girl being a nod to the Flying Charleston and the Hand to Hand Charleston (dances). I thought that was pretty clever. gajojo wrote:: Stay on Meeting, keep heading to WPG. F) From Meeting Street, cross the street into WPG. From this point, we need verse 6. On this topic...the ferry didn't depart from Concord st in the '80s, nor was that entire plaza near the aquarium there. I think it was built around 2005... I've long thought of the Gibbes (and museums in other casques' locations) as very important. My theory is, BP visited and used local pieces of art to "influence" or as some base material from some of the images. I like your path...I think Meeting is the most obvious, and using images and then the verse as a starting point at the park is good...and consistent with Cleveland and Chicago.

gajojo wrote:: White Point Garden is where they hung the pirates. Of all the romance retold – Treasure Island Men of tales and tunes –What kind of men? Sailors Cruel and bold—What kind of sailors? Pirates Seen here—Pirates were seen here hanging for several days. By eyes of old—a long time ago. When you step into WPG from Meeting Street, the first thing you see is the Hunley Memorial that has a fountain (17). If you keep walking, you come to a gazebo that once served as a Band Stand (18). gajojo wrote:: Stand and listen to the birds: I assume “stand” refers to the band stand(18). I have no idea what time of year BP was in Charleston, but I did find a website that stated that Yellow Crowned Night Herons nest every year in the oak trees in WPG. Maybe BP was there during this season?? gajojo wrote:: Hear the cool, clear song of water: I am assuming that this refers to either the Hunley fountain (17) and/or the river, ocean and harbor on the other side of the bandstand (low battery on map). Standing in the bandstand, you will have water on both sides. I am assuming the “clear song” refers to bandstand. Harken the words: From the bandstand, head to to the Simms statue (16). Simms was a famous writer and orater, hence “Harken the words.” gajojo wrote:: Point A (15) --Freedom at the birth of a century: No real clue, but I will throw out two thoughts. 1) I have wondered if this could refer to Liberia (in that Liberia means freedom). I don’t think it could have referred to Simms since from everything I have read, he was pro slavery. However, the verse seems to move to a contrast thing with the “Ors”, so maybe there is an intentional comparison of freedom vs. slavery—but how this line helps us find a casque is beyond me. 2) My other thought is that maybe “Freedom at the birth of a century” could refer to the Jasper Monument (15). Jasper distinguished himself in the defense of Fort Moultrie (then called Fort Sullivan) on June 28, 1776. Thomas Jefferson's wrote the Declaration of Independence in June of 1776. BP published the book in 1982. That is pretty close to the bicentennial. Could it be a nod toward 1776?—I wonder if that year is anywhere on the Jasper Monument. Century—100 years? Bicentennial—200 years? I know—it is a bad stretch, but from my perspective, this line either has nothing to do with any landmark in WPG (rather a Liberia reference) or it is has to do with the Jasper Monument. gajojo wrote:: Point B (8)--Or May 1913: This date was on the USS Maine Capstan.(was once located at #8) gajojo wrote:: Beside the long palm's shadow: Initially, I saw this as having two options: either the palm of a hand on one of the statues or the really tall palm in WPG. If it was referring to the really tall palm, I wanted to see where the shadow of the tree fell at 4 pm. I thought maybe it would fall or point across the street toward the battery wall. I took this picture at 4 pm. Even if BP was there during a different time of year (spring forward or fall back Day light saving time), I don’t think the shadow is going to fall on anything near sand. gajojo wrote:: Side note: I have wondered if the flat center of the daisy referred to the Fort Sumter Monument at the corner of Murray Blvd and East Battery. (In the shadow of the tall palm picture above, the top of the shadow of the tall palm touched it.) I have seen aerial pictures of WPG where that monument looks like a flat disk. The monument is surrounded by what looks like 16 concrete petals. In image 2, the daisy has 17 petals. One is bent. When I look at it, it reminds me of “He loves me, He loves me not,” like I need to pull one off. No idea if this is what JPP was trying to convey. If there was sand around that monument in the 80’s, maybe the spot beside the shadow of the tall palm is significant. gajojo wrote:: Does anyone know if someone has tried to dig up this spot? Would love to have ya’lls thoughts. Please let me know if I need to clarify anything or if the pictures do not work. New to this. Agreed and agreed. This is a very straightforward way to tell a hunter to begin at this park. Interesting! I need to check this out. Agreed, agreed, and agreed. The bicentennial is interesting to me...I think it potentially has ties to other locations as well, but this probably borderlines into conspiracy-theory-land. (e.g. Milwaukee's "grand 200" could have been a bicentennial trail sign or similar...) Yes, I never found anything other than the capstan that had to do with "May 1913" in Charleston. Yes, I've always liked that tree...but we know that shadow, taken literally, can only cast certain directions, which all point toward the center and north side of the park. Interesting on the daisy petals...I think the whole park is (was much more) pretty sand-covered. That spot, not that I know of...

@gajojo Forgot...Re:local art and museums Google "anne worsham richardson" and look at her artwork... It might not get us any further, but it might help piece together how these were constructed and where BP went.

Thanks tjgrey! Are you the one who lives in Charleston? If so, the next time you are at WPG, I would love it if you would go to that spot and turn and look at the white house. If that verse is actually talking about WPG, the last line felt right on point if it is in that spot. If Fort Sumter ferry doesn't lead you to Calhoun, then I am back to the drawing board. I also could easily see BP acting like a gardener digging in the bricked in part. I will definitely look up that artist. Thanks.

Hi all! I stumbled across "The Secret" last week, but I was instantly hooked so I just wanted to post a quick hello. I spent about 10 years living and working in the Charleston area, so Image 2 caught my attention immediately. (I'm leaning heavily toward Verse 5 for the pairing...) Unfortunately I'm stuck exploring online for now since I won't be back in the Lowcountry for a few more months, but I'm amazed by how much devotion this group has shown to the puzzle. Thanks to everyone who's shared their thought processes so far!

Welcome! I've been at it for 13 years now, and not one casque to show for it -- I hope you have better luck.

gajojo wrote:: Point A (15) --Freedom at the birth of a century: No real clue, but I will throw out two thoughts. 1) I have wondered if this could refer to Liberia (in that Liberia means freedom). I don’t think it could have referred to Simms since from everything I have read, he was pro slavery. However, the verse seems to move to a contrast thing with the “Ors”, so maybe there is an intentional comparison of freedom vs. slavery—but how this line helps us find a casque is beyond me. 2) My other thought is that maybe “Freedom at the birth of a century” could refer to the Jasper Monument (15). Jasper distinguished himself in the defense of Fort Moultrie (then called Fort Sullivan) on June 28, 1776. Thomas Jefferson's wrote the Declaration of Independence in June of 1776. BP published the book in 1982. That is pretty close to the bicentennial. Could it be a nod toward 1776?—I wonder if that year is anywhere on the Jasper Monument. Century—100 years? Bicentennial—200 years? I know—it is a bad stretch, but from my perspective, this line either has nothing to do with any landmark in WPG (rather a Liberia reference) or it is has to do with the Jasper Monument. There seems to be a fairly solid consensus that the "Freedom" line refers to Denmark Vesey, a Charleston slave who purchased his freedom after winning a lottery in 1799. There are several historical landmarks recognizing his place in Charleston history around the area of WPG. Also, there was a good amount of controversy around the time BP was putting The Secret together over a painting of Vesey that hangs in the Gaillard Municipal Auditorium. That said, new interpretations are always interesting to consider.

Vesey has been a focal point at times but I think there's other considerations that might fit better. Freedom also means Liberated. "Freedom at the birth of a century" could be a person born in Liberia more than 100 years ago. Hilary Richard Wright Johnson (b. 1837) became the first African born President of Liberia in 1884. The link that Charleston has to Liberia is significant and the connection of Liberia's Edward Wilmot Blyden as referenced to naming of twins Edwin and Edwina in Abroad in America also derserves consideration.

erexere wrote:: Vesey has been a focal point at times but I think there's other considerations that might fit better. Freedom also means Liberated. erexere wrote:: "Freedom at the birth of a century" could be a person born in Liberia more than 100 years ago. Hilary Richard Wright Johnson (b. 1837) became the first African born President of Liberia in 1884. erexere wrote:: The link that Charleston has to Liberia is significant and the connection of Liberia's Edward Wilmot Blyden as referenced to naming of twins Edwin and Edwina in Abroad in America also derserves consideration. Are you saying this is a reference to Liberia because freedom and liberation are synonyms? Why not just say "Liberated at the birth of a century" then? I'm not sure I follow. Why would BP speak of "the birth of a century" if he was just talking about something that happened 100 years ago? And I don't at all understand the connection to Hilary Richard Wright Johnson. He wasn't born anything close to 100 years before BP buried the casks and he became president less than 100 years before BP buried the casks. Therefore, no connection to birth or century exists. Every clue doesn't have to connect to the same thing. For instance, the Haitian Revolution was also approximately at the birth of the 19th century and plenty of things COULD connect to that. I think BP mostly wanted to highlight a bunch of interesting historical truths about the places he buried the casques. There's way too much Denmark Vesey evidence to deny it as the most likely interpretation. I don't see any evidence that anything else "fits better."

FlippinArkansas wrote:: Are you saying this is a reference to Liberia because freedom and liberation are synonyms? Why not just say "Liberated at the birth of a century" then? FlippinArkansas wrote:: I'm not sure I follow. Why would BP speak of "the birth of a century" if he was just talking about something that happened 100 years ago? And I don't at all understand the connection to Hilary Richard Wright Johnson. He wasn't born anything close to 100 years before BP buried the casks and he became president less than 100 years before BP buried the casks. Therefore, no connection to birth or century exists. FlippinArkansas wrote:: Every clue doesn't have to connect to the same thing. For instance, the Haitian Revolution was also approximately at the birth of the 19th century and plenty of things COULD connect to that. I think BP mostly wanted to highlight a bunch of interesting historical truths about the places he buried the casques. There's way too much Denmark Vesey evidence to deny it as the most likely interpretation. I don't see any evidence that anything else "fits better." From the International Encyclopedia (pub. 1968) wrote:: On May 30, 1822, two enslaved Afrikans betrayed Denmark Vesey, a free Afrikan who was planning the largest rebellion of enslaved Afrikans in United States history involving some 9,000 people. Telemaque, later known as "Denmark Vesey" was born around 1767, probably on the Caribbean island of Saint Thomas. Joseph Vesey, a Carolina-based slaver, purchased the boy in 1781 as part of a cargo of 390 bondpeople. During the passage to the French colony of Saint-Domingue (Haiti), Vesey noticed the child’s “beauty, alertness, and intelligence” and employed him as a cabin boy. But when the ship reached Cap François, the captain “had no use for the boy” and turned him over to his colonial agents. Either traumatized by his new life in Saint-Domingue or feigning illness, the child began to display “epileptic fits.” Returned to the docks, a physician “certified that the lad” was unwell, which cancelled the sale. When Joseph Vesey returned to Cap François on April 23, 1782, with a new cargo of Gold Coast slaves, he was forced to take the child back. The fits promptly ceased, and Vesey decided to keep him as a servant. Charleston authorities later described the child as a person of “superior power of mind & the more dangerous for it.” The captain saw only the value of a tall, muscular boy already conversant in two languages. Vesey gave the boy a new name, Telemaque, after the son of Homer’s Odysseus; over time, Carolina bondmen either punned or corrupted the name into Denmak, and then finally Denmark. In the spring of 1783, following the British evacuation of South Carolina, Joseph Vesey settled into Charleston as a ship chandler. At some point during this period, Denmark married an enslaved woman named Beck. Beck had several masters over the course of her life, but she remained married to Denmark long enough to give birth to at least three of his children. Two of his sons were named Polydore and Robert; a third, Sandy, would be the only child to be implicated in his 1822 plot. Toward the end of his life, Denmark Vesey married again. His last wife, Susan, was born enslaved around 1795. She was the only woman to carry his surname. Some historians have speculated that Vesey practiced polygamy, although no evidence exists to support the theory. On September 30, 1799, Denmark happened upon a handbill announcing the “East-Bay Lottery,” and bought a ticket. In November, Charleston newspapers declared his ticket the winner. The prize was $1,500, a princely sum that slaves who hired their time would take ten years to acquire. Joseph Vesey agreed to sell Denmark his freedom for $600; the contract was signed on December 31, 1799. After seventeen years as a Charleston slave, the thirty-three-year-old Denmark was free. Chained to the South by family ties, Denmark remained in the city and apprenticed himself to a carpenter, an easy trade to learn and a lucrative business as Charleston expanded up the peninsula. At the same time, he adopted Vesey as a surname, probably as a linguistic tie to an established businessman whose name could help to secure clients. Vesey threw his enormous energies into his business, and according to one former slave, Denmark labored “every day at de trade of carpenter” and “soon became much [re]spected” and “esteem[ed] by de white folks.” But because of competition from white carpenters, free mulattoes (whose fathers provided business contacts), and enslaved craftsmen (who lived with their masters and paid no rent), Vesey barely maintained a modest income. Despite published claims made in 1822 that he died a rich man worth nearly $8,000, there is no evidence that Vesey ever owned a single piece of property. Around 1818 Vesey joined the city’s new African Methodist Episcopal congregation, the center of Charleston’s enslaved community. Sandy Vesey also joined, as did four of Vesey’s closest friends: Peter Poyas, a literate ship carpenter; Monday Gell, an African-born Ibo who labored as a harness maker; Rolla Bennett, the manservant of Governor Thomas Bennett; and “Gullah” Jack Pritchard, an East African priest and woodworker purchased in Zinguebar in 1806. The temporary closure of the church by city authorities in June 1818 and the arrest of 140 congregants, one of them presumably Vesey, reinforced the determination of black Carolinians to maintain a place of independent worship and established the motivation for Vesey’s conspiracy. In 1820 several “Negroes was taken up” for holding a late-night service at the church, and city authorities warned that they would not tolerate class leaders conducting instructional “schools for slaves,” as “the education of such persons was forbidden by law.” The “African Church was the people,” Gell replied. He and Pritchard had considered insurrection in 1818, “and now they had begun again to try it.” At the age of fifty-one, Vesey briefly thought about emigrating to the English colony of Sierra Leone. But as Beck’s children remained slaves, Vesey resolved instead to orchestrate a rebellion, followed by a mass exodus from Charleston to Haiti. President Jean-Pierre Boyer had recently encouraged black Americans to bring their skills and capital to his beleaguered republic. Vesey did not intend to tarry in Charleston long enough for white military power to present an effective counterassault. “As soon as they could get the money from the Banks, and the goods from the stores,” Rolla insisted, “they should hoist sail” for Saint-Domingue and live as free men. Vesey planned the escape for nearly four years. His chief lieutenants included Poyas, Gell, Rolla Bennett, and “Gullah” Jack Pritchard. Although there are no reliable figures for the number of recruits, Charleston alone was home to 12,652 slaves. Pritchard, probably with some exaggeration, boasted that he had 6,600 recruits on the plantations across the Cooper and Ashley rivers. The plan called for Vesey’s followers to rise at midnight on Sunday, July 14—Bastille Day—slay their masters, and sail for Haiti and freedom. As one southern editor later conceded: “The plot seems to have been well devised, and its operation was extensive.” The plot unraveled in June 1822 when two slaves revealed the plan to their owners. Mayor James Hamilton called up the city militia and convened a special court to try the captured insurgents. Vesey was captured at Beck’s home on June 21 and hanged on July 2, together with Rolla, Poyas, and three other rebels. In all, thirty-five slaves were executed. Forty-two others, including Sandy Vesey, were sold outside the United States; some, if not all, became slaves in Spanish Cuba. Robert Vesey lived to rebuild the African Church in the fall of 1865. I think Preiss made a conscious choice to use the word freedom over liberated. Why that would be the case, I'm still guessing. For instance, I like the idea that "birth of a century" applies to the start or founding of our nation in 1776 and that "a century" could apply equally to either the first 100 years or second 100 years passing, thus the years 1877 and 1977 might pertain. I thought to cross reference Freedom and those dates and I discovered an interesting recipient for the Presidential Medal of Freedom, awarded to First Lady "Bird" Johnson in 1977. The subject of "birds" in the verse then being an important aspect of catching the reference to that particular First Lady. I feel it's important to explore Charleston's connection to Liberia. Discovered in Abroad in America (pub. 1976) Edward Wilmot Blyden is a direct link to twins named Edwin and Edwina. After his stay in the United States in 1874, he traveled back to Liberia and wrote many letters supporting further efforts to emigrate freed African Americans, primarily the "Negro" as opposed to the "Mulatto". In 1878, a steamship left Charleston's port in what was known as the Liberian Exodus. http://docsouth.unc.edu/church/liberian/liberian.html Hilary R.W. Johnson is just a guess on my part. I wouldn't rule him out just for not being born exactly 100 years before Preiss hid the casques. His birth is significant in the same way as we would recognize Virginia Dare in N.C., she being the first "White" child born in the British Colonies of the New World, while Johnson is the first African born person in Liberia of African American decent. Consider the birth reference in the Litany of the Jewels: Africa's Diamond, earth born star, bright harvest of the midnight rock. I think it's justifiable to consider a connection to President Johnson of Liberia. At this time, the only conclusion I'm able to make is that the name "Johnson" helps us connect the events of the murder reported on April 8th, 1873 at the Cape Romaine Lighthouse by Keeper Andrew Johnson. There's good historic context to consider Vesey's role in Charleston, but I'm not absolutely sure the verse has him in mind when it says "Freedom at the birth of a century". We have to keep asking ourselves WHY each piece of the verse/image puzzle is relevant. I agree that ever clue doesn't need to connect to the same thing. Often in the past, I would try too hard to establish multiple connects. Now, I try to see why a connection is necessary and to establish the accessibility of the supporting clues. I can Google all day, but that doesn't help me if someone couldn't pull out an Encyclopedia and look up something like this fine example for Denmark Vesey:

Note the necklace chain of the Sumter medal here in image 2. The first neck worn civillian medal in the US was introduced by Kennedy in 1963 by executive order 11085. The Presidential medal of Freedom... (superceeding Harry S. Truman's "Medal of Freedom" in 1945).

erexere wrote:: I think Preiss made a conscious choice to use the word freedom over liberated. Why that would be the case, I'm still guessing. For instance, I like the idea that "birth of a century" applies to the start or founding of our nation in 1776 and that "a century" could apply equally to either the first 100 years or second 100 years passing, thus the years 1877 and 1977 might pertain. I thought to cross reference Freedom and those dates and I discovered an interesting recipient for the Presidential Medal of Freedom, awarded to First Lady "Bird" Johnson in 1977. The subject of "birds" in the verse then being an important aspect of catching the reference to that particular First Lady. erexere wrote:: I feel it's important to explore Charleston's connection to Liberia. Discovered in Abroad in America (pub. 1976) Edward Wilmot Blyden is a direct link to twins named Edwin and Edwina. After his stay in the United States in 1874, he traveled back to Liberia and wrote many letters supporting further efforts to emigrate freed African Americans, primarily the "Negro" as opposed to the "Mulatto". In 1878, a steamship left Charleston's port in what was known as the Liberian Exodus. http://docsouth.unc.edu/church/liberian/liberian.html erexere wrote:: Hilary R.W. Johnson is just a guess on my part. I wouldn't rule him out just for not being born exactly 100 years before Preiss hid the casques. His birth is significant in the same way as we would recognize Virginia Dare in N.C., she being the first "White" child born in the British Colonies of the New World, while Johnson is the first African born person in Liberia of African American decent. Consider the birth reference in the Litany of the Jewels: Africa's Diamond, earth born star, bright harvest of the midnight rock. I think it's justifiable to consider a connection to President Johnson of Liberia. At this time, the only conclusion I'm able to make is that the name "Johnson" helps us connect the events of the murder reported on April 8th, 1873 at the Cape Romaine Lighthouse by Keeper Andrew Johnson. erexere wrote:: There's good historic context to consider Vesey's role in Charleston, but I'm not absolutely sure the verse has him in mind when it says "Freedom at the birth of a century". We have to keep asking ourselves WHY each piece of the verse/image puzzle is relevant. As I said before, it's interesting to consider other possibilities but I don't really see the point of reaching for something with less connection to Charleston in a historical sense than Denmark Vesey. He's not just some random person. There are literally endless interpretations for the "birds" reference so why would Lady Bird Johnson be the one that makes the most sense, historically? What is her connection to Charleston? Yes. The Edwin/Edwina line is another reference to Charleston's history. BP is walking us through some of the important historical and immigration connections to Africa. It really doesn't have to be complicated so unless there's some reason to focus on Liberia in Charleston, what's the point? Is any of this supported by the image or the verse? You jump from "freedom" to liberation to Liberia to Hilary Johnson to Lady Bird Johnson to a murderous lighthouse keeper who also happens to have the same name (a very, very, very common one at that) to lead us to Cape Romaine? Again, any of this supported elsewhere? In the painting of Denmark Vesey that hangs in the Gaillard Auditorium (blocks from WPG) he is portrayed from behind with the congregation "harken[ing] to the words" that he's speaking. His house (most likely not his actual house) is an historical landmark in Charleston (blocks from WPG) and he was instrumental in founding the AME church in Charleston, which is kind of a big deal, historically. Why is all of this important? Most likely BP wanted searchers to understand the deep connections between DV and the city of Charleston, particularly because he had become a controversial figure in the late 1970s when BP was doing his research. Denmark Vesey might not get us closer to the casque but that is the case with so many of the clues. Obviously your time is your own but it seems to me that there are other more controvertible parts to this puzzle which may be more worthy.

Yes, Johnson is a common name. I'm exploring and explaining just one approach best I can. I'm not saying its the best approach, just an option for consideratuon, so you might want to adjust the tone of your arguement. Note the use of the word "or" being used to connect the various lines after "harken". I believe that LINK is expected to be some commonality. What is that? Harken, by the way, doesnt mean only spoken words, just words that are given special attention, written or otherwise. Im exploring the track that harken is being used in the sense that there is a subject of leadership involved. We might harken to Vesey leading a revolt, or MLK delivering his speech, or the words of our President. I explored the name Johnson first as common as it is when I learned the Keeper story, significant for a number of reasons: April 8th event (on the eighth a scene), being a murder (the scene of a crime), his wife buried a box of diamond jewelery and other valuables on the Cape Romaine island (Treasure on an Island ties in with the Robert Louis Stevenson reference), Cape Romaine's two lighthouses might be thought of as twins (giving reason for the use of Edwin/Edwina), and the Keepers name was Andrew Johnson same as the Vice President of Abraham Lincoln (White house close at hand, such as when VP becomes acting President as happened when Lincoln was shot at the theater). I've looked into the "neck order" selection of medals introduced in US history. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neck_order Medals of Honor, Merit, Valor, Freedom, etc. If the medal of Sumter featuring a single star in image 2 is any indication, then the medal of Freedom is possibly an accessible idea readers of the Secret in 1982. I dont know the details of the public record for the Presidential Medal of Freedom, but in combination with "birth of a century" being specifically the first year of a century in terms of US with a beginning year of 1776, then 1877 and 1977 are both candidates. As common as the name Johnson may be, there is room for consideration that "Bird" Johnson is an important discovery as we stand and listen (hearken) to the birds. Also, in terms of lat and long, Cape Romaine isnt to be ruled out, since people have argued that it is too far away from Charleston. If the lat/long are to be adhered to, than any place within about 50 miles is possible, since then you'd be looking at a new lat or long, thats what it means to be "too far away". My guess about Liberias first African born President is just a guess. Its possibly a blip on the "radar" or its just coincidental. He ties in only vaguely given he held the same job as Blyden as Secretary of Foreign Affairs and later became President. His birth has importance only as much as people might argue some detail about Virginia Dare in search of Image 3's casque near Roanoke, since she was the first American born English person of the Colonies. The question is whether this information is accessible to BP's 1982 audience and whether it fits his paradigm for the Fair Folk treasure hiding. I think he uses uniquely important details and makes work for the keen observer. Symbolism and near exact matches are blended in to carry specific ideas that point to a location. If there is a "bar that binds" to be found at Cape Romaine's lighthouses, then I think the water cistern drum barrel standing above ground is an option. A "bar" is a place you might go if you're thirsty, so why not go to a water cistern which holds (hold = to bind) water. Returning to the linking of ideas after harken: perhaps fatboaC refers to Lady "Bird" Johnson receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom, perhaps Edwin/Edwina's Blyden links us to Liberia, perhaps May 1913 is the birth if the most recent Liberian President Tolbert, and perhaps April 8th is our murder scene involving a man with the same full name as a US President, Andrew Johnson, same last name as a previous Liberian President in Blyden's time, same last name as a "Bird". Maybe thats what our harkening is to determine.

erexere wrote:: Returning to the linking of ideas after harken: perhaps fatboaC refers to Lady "Bird" Johnson receiving the Presidential Medal of Freedom, perhaps Edwin/Edwina's Blyden links us to Liberia, perhaps May 1913 is the birth if the most recent Liberian President Tolbert, and perhaps April 8th is our murder scene involving a man with the same full name as a US President, Andrew Johnson, same last name as a previous Liberian President in Blyden's time, same last name as a "Bird". Maybe thats what our harkening is to determine. I suppose I should reiterate that I'm not saying this isn't interesting, just that it is demonstrably much more tenuous than the WPG interpretation. A couple of thoughts/points of clarification: 1.) Tolbert was assassinated in 1980 by Samuel Doe and other revolutionaries. If May 1913 (when Tolbert was born) is another Liberia reference, it is also another death by violence reference (to go along with the lighthouse murderer) and in that case, you maybe should look for others in the verse. (I would posit that Vesey's life also ended violently after his freedom was bought just before the birth of a century.) 2.)I haven't read a good explanation for the spelling of "harken" as opposed to the much more common "hearken" and I think it may be significant. 3.) Since this is the thread for Image 2, do you have any image matches for your theory?

Hmm. Let me reset fkr a moment, because I am not opposed to WPG and other ideas and then my own exposition has my mind blown. I'm not fully convinced of much other than the references to Robert Louis Stevenson and Blyden. I havent found any image matches to sync anything together in the way the Cleveland or Chicago puzzles demonstrate the integration of visual clues. The Sumter and Charleston shapes are clearly symbolic of looking at a map. The woman seems most like the Persephone statue in town. Oh, and the SC state shape looks apparent in either the branches or wings (i forget which). My main take on the image is that it is stocked with symbolism. The lion represents Africa but might also be symbolic for the Sun or the subject of trophy hunting or the fact that a lions roar has a huge range. The lepidoptera woman represents something like an Atlas, Luna, or Polyphemus moth, which sounds like Greek mythology stuff, perhaps symbolizing the Moon. The tribal mask might symbolize hunting. Keeping those things in mind, especially the possible blend of Greek mytbology, I wondered about any examples of fraternal twins (like the Edwin/Edwina) and quickly hit on Zeus and Leto having fraternal twin children Apollo (Sun) and Artemis (Moon/Hunting). That blew my mind, since notionally I couldnt fathom how it linked to a location method. As for Vesey, I continue to keep in mind the Greek name he once lived by, Telemaque, same name as son of Odysseus. That is certainly a hook for thinking about Greek mythology.

Unknown: verb 1. skin the head and neck of (an animal) to prepare a hunting trophy As I wondered if the reference to fraternal twins to Blyden was selected for some added reason, and I found Apollo/Artemis was another case albeit a wild example, I didnt see that their names followed Zeus like Edward -> Edwin/Edwina, but I did learn something mini-mind-blowing about their mother Leto. She isn't notable for much other than being a lunar goddess, she was cursed by Zeus' jealous wife Hera to never be able to have children on land, but Leto discovered the Island of Cos was an exception for its floating above the sea floor, disconnected from the Earth itself, allowing her to give birth to Apollo and Artemis. I learned of something called "cos lettuce" for its origin to the Greek island Cos. Its better known as romaine lettuce. So maybe thats an idea involved with identifying Cape Romaine. A definition for the word cape: Large lion head w/ mane Birthplace of mythological fraternal twins named Cos and origin of romain lettuce

Revisiting one of my favorite image connects, though it shouldnt really considered a match since an oval or circular shape is non-unique but in this particular landscape and circumstance where one would be encouraged to climb the octagonal 150 foot lighthouse stairs, there is no othwr option but to look down upon the conical, light-absent flat top of the old 85 foot lighthouse, You'll see the remnants of its old above ground cistern, positioned in a way toward which the one shaded daisy pedal might be pointed.

Well, after spending a month working on Image 2 I finally stopped stalling and sent off an email request for a permit to dig. Fingers crossed, wish me luck! I still won't be back in Charleston until later this year, but I figured I'd send in the request early in case bureaucracy happens. In any case, the casque ain't found if it's still in the ground... FWIW, I'd say there's only about a 50/50 chance that this request will be approved. In the event that it's declined or I just never hear back, I'll start writing up my solution to post either here or on my own blog. The theory is built on a lot of the work that you all have previously done, plus 3 or 4 additional items that I haven't seen mentioned anywhere yet. Hopefully the thought process and resources I used will be helpful to some other hunters.

Can't wait to see those three or four additional items good luck!

Good luck James! Thanks for the update. I think its safe to assume you're not interested in the Cape Romaine approach. I have some updates for Cape Romaine following a fact checking of the mythological elements that may be involved. I was mistaken when I said Leto gave birth to twins Apollo and Artemis on the island of Cos. Leto's birthplace is Cos, but Apollo and Artemis were born on Delos after Leto, transformed into a bird (quail), landed there. Delos is the site of the Terrace of Lions, at least a dozen great stone lion statues stand in honor of Apollo.

erexere wrote:: I have some updates for Cape Romaine following a fact checking of the mythological elements that may be involved. I was mistaken when I said Leto gave birth to twins Apollo and Artemis on the island of Cos. Leto's birthplace is Cos, but Apollo and Artemis were born on Delos after Leto, transformed into a bird (quail), landed there. Delos is the site of the Terrace of Lions, at least a dozen great stone lion statues stand in honor of Apollo. Wow...that theory makes my methodology seem almost lowbrow by comparison!

Nothing is certain. This is still a big "what if" game. Preiss was clever. Clever to what extent...unknown. A basic scavenger hunt is a collection of clues. The hunt gets more complicated when split between visual and word clues. It's further complicated when those clues entertain the possibility of abstraction or symbolic association.

Just a quick update on my own progress...after a few months of emails, the National Park Service ultimately denied my dig request. It's a little disappointing, but completely understandable given the location. The NPS staff I worked with were very open-minded about the whole thing, and they seemed pretty interested in the progress of the continuing hunt! It was a little challenging to scour Fort Moultrie for clues from the other side of the world, so special thanks goes to TJGrey and Erexere for taking a look at my I2/V5 theory. I'll try to get a write-up posted this week, just in case the resources/reasoning I used would be helpful to any of the other hunters out there.

Skunkboy wrote:: I'm pretty sure "the only standing member of a forest to the south" refers to Osceola(as in Osceola National Forest in Florida), whose tomb is in Fort Moultrie where he died while imprisoned, and whose ceremonial headdress was made from three ostrich feathers, which would connect the "wingless bird" part.  Additionally, keeping with the African theme of this puzzle, more than 50% of African slaves brought to North America were processed through Sullivan's Island. Anyhow, Osceola's tomb is probably key.  I'm in Charleston on vacation for a few more days. Fort Moultrie, here I come! Apologies for the necro-posting, but I wanted to make sure I gave proper credit since this older "wingless bird" clue really sparked my theory. I was running Google keyword searches from here in New Zealand, where the locals are known as "kiwis". Turns out that very few famous New Zealanders have ever visited Fort Moultrie, but in a related search I learned that "wingless" is considered to be a fair synonym for "flightless". The Fort Moultrie/Osceola connection popped right up in Google. Although an ostrich really does have wings, they've vestigial, which I took as a possible interpretation for "ancient dreams of flight." To avoid rehashing all of the previous Image 2/Verse 5 discussions on this thread, here's my additional thoughts. The proposed dig location that I sent to NPS was "twelve paces" (30 feet) from the west side of the USS Patapsco monument, along the Northwest Bastion of Fort Moultrie. It it turns out that BP got his cardinal directions confused, as seemed to be the case in Cleveland, then the casque would most likely be twelve heel-to-toe paces from the south side of this obelisk. Most of my "new evidence" came from the historical photos available online through the Library of Congress, as well as through the National Park Service's Open Parks Network. Both of these are amazing resources, and really helped to put all the Google Earth imagery into context. -The "White stone" could be the USS Patapsco memorial obelisk (2' wide at the base) adjacent to Osceola's grave: NPS' records list it as being made from white granite, and the most prominent name listed on it is the ship's acting paymaster, John White, the senior ranking officer among the deceased sailors. -A few cypress trees stood outside the Fort's "lionesque" sallyport until about 1983 or so, above both Osceola's grave and the Patapsco stone. (I used a bunch of old photos to confirm the timeframe, as well as some old postcards available on Ebay.) Also of interest is that these African spirits were listed as "tree fairies" on page 13 of the book. With all that in mind, I think that one last remaining cypress tree was the "only standing member of a forest to the south" (Seminole National Forest?). Here's the cypress trees (note that Osceola's grave is now slightly offset following a 1969 re-interment): And here's a few shots of the sallyport: Present Day...could the cross in the lion's mane represent this flagpole? 1960s or so...note the unique slants in the gunports, unsure if these would have still been here in 1981, after Fort Moultrie was renovated. -That lowercase 'h' in the forehead of the African mask? It *could* very well be a reference to Edgar Allen Poe's story "The Gold Bug", as Poe served as an artilleryman in H Company while he was stationed at Fort Moultrie under the name of "Edgar A. Perry". -And that damned pear? If you compare Image 2 itself against a 1981 road map (also bought from Ebay), it could very well mark the location of the Silas Pearman bridge if the cypress branch really does represent the bends in Coleman Boulevard. I also think that it may symbolize a Confederate harbor mine, which I understand were often pear-shaped. There's a lot of references to these harbor mines around the fort, but I've been unable to confirm if the one outside the Visitor's Center on Middle Street would have been in place during BP's possible visit in 1981. If so, it'd be another visual cue you could see from the dig site. Also interesting to note that the Patapsco ironclad was sunk when it ran into one of these pear-shaped mines. For what it's worth, all of this supporting info would have been available to BP if he had taken a guided tour of Fort Moultrie back in 1981, maybe with a stop in the gift shop/bookstore on the way out. Benson Lossing's "Pictorial History of the Civil War" provided the information on the harbor mines...amazingly enough, that book is still in print today! I haven't confirmed it it's actually for sale in the gift shop at Fort Sumter National Monument, though. So anyway, with the dig request denied it looks like I'm going to have to be satisfied with calling this one a "theory". NPS (quite correctly) pointed out that BP would have been breaking federal law if he'd actually buried the casque there...I imagine that 1981 must have been a completely different world! Hopefully these thoughts will be helpful to hunters working a more accessible puzzle...thanks to everyone who's shared their thoughts so far. No matter if this theory is right or wrong, I've had an absolute blast digging into the history of my adopted hometown!

This is great work. My favorite part is how the guided tour was available in the same basic form. I'm thinking these sorts of insights are really key to many of the remaining puzzles. So James, what are you going to work on next?

Bad luck with the dig request, but thanks for sharing these ideas, and kudos for getting to the point of putting one in....

erexere wrote:: This is great work. My favorite part is how the guided tour was available in the same basic form. I'm thinking these sorts of insights are really key to many of the remaining puzzles. So James, what are you going to work on next? I think I'll probably drag my feet on this location around for just a little while longer...I still plan to visit Fort Sumter in October, at least to meet with the NPS team in person and thank them for all their help over the past few months. Needless to say, conducting a "rogue dig" is pretty much out of the question for this site. I'm not sure if there'd be any local media interest in the story like there has been in Milwaukee or Houston, but who knows? This may have been all it took to get me hooked on the armchair treasure hunts, though! I've been going back and forth through everyone's previous work on two other possible locations, since I'll be spending the next year back in the US. Shovel at the ready...

Well, I’m finally back home in the US, and naturally I hand-carried my copy of “The Secret” on the plane so I could hit the ground running! I'm kind of ashamed to admit this but after ten years of living in Charleston I’d never actually taken the ferry tour out to Fort Sumter, so I kind of felt obligated to hit up that spot before heading on to Fort Moultrie. It’s an amazing tour and I’d highly recommend it, but as previous posters have noted it would have been next-to-impossible for Byron Preiss to hide anything on the grounds of Fort Sumter during an hour-long visit. So, on to Fort Moultrie we went! I’ve added a few more photos below, but if anyone needs to see anything different please let me know…I took a ton of shots! As far as all the possible Edgar Allen Poe references, I wasn’t entirely sold on any of these until I got on the ground and saw the place for myself. (It’s probably been 12 years or so since I’ve gotten out to Sullivan’s, and I’d only been to Fort Moultrie once.) Before you even cross onto Sullivan’s, there’s a little marsh island called “Goldbug Island” at the foot of the bridge. The event center doesn’t look like it has any connection to the hunt, but if we’re viewing Image 2 as a possible roadmap then the location would fit in there perfectly. I’m not sure what (if any) signage this facility would have had up back in 1982, though. Also, I stopped in to the tiny branch of the Charleston County Public Library while I was up here. The great staff was very helpful…thanks CCPL! That building is also named after Poe, and the facility itself actually used to be part of Fort Moultrie. I think I remember reading this somewhere before, but apparently “Tamerlane” is the title of one of Poe’s most famous poems, and the author actually used “Tamerlane” as a pseudonym at an early point in his writing career. I couldn’t find any solid proof that this connection was related to “Lane Two”, though. As far as that “arc of light”, I’m satisfied that this could be the Charleston Light as we thought. That lighthouse has a unique rotating beacon which could be poetically described as an arc, and it’s visible as soon as you arrive on Sullivan’s. The light can be easily seen from both Middle Street and Fort Moultrie during the daytime, but the “arc” strobing effect is definitely more noticeable at night. On the way to the Fort, I also stopped to take a photo of Mugdock Castle, which is only a few houses down from the Visitor’s Center. Although this is a privately-owned home/rental facility now, it used to be the Post Chapel when the Fort was in use. I couldn’t find any period photos of the facade, but I read on the Castle’s website that the front of the building has not changed despite a recent, modern addition in the rear. Could these windows have been the inspiration for the “eyes” in the Fort Sumter pendant? Also, it seems like there were crosses everywhere! This one is from the cornerstone of Mugdock Castle, facing the sidewalk of Middle Street, but there was also a simpler design on the gravestone of General Moultrie, which is located on the waterfront behind the Visitor’s Center. Then, I took a few minutes to walk around the grounds of Stella Maris church next door. Unfortunately it wasn’t open so I couldn’t go in, but I didn’t see anything that made me suspect that building was involved in the hunt. Another user had marked an online image of a World War II monument as a possible marker for the “white stone”, but I was unable to locate that stone in the area. I couldn’t tell whether I was in the wrong spot, or if perhaps the marker had been moved at some point. After wandering around outside for a while, I finally stopped in to the Visitor’s Center to buy a ticket and check out the exhibits. NPS has a small but amazing presentation on the slave trade, and NPS did a great job of explaining the role that Sullivan’s Island played. If Byron Preiss really had intended to tell the story of African immigration with Image 2, there’s no more relevant place. Outside, the fort’s old Torpedo Storehouse is now the Administrative Offices for Fort Sumter National Monument. It looks like the naval torpedo mine would also have been in place back in 1982, and it’s definitely visible from my proposed dig site. I wasn’t able to find any direct references to the “pear” shape of these mines, though, so that information would have had to come from a tour guide or a reference book. Also, here’s a present-day view of the sallyport, looking down from the observation deck atop the Visitor’s Center. This is only my opinion, but I think that the sallyport looks awfully “lionesque” if you squint at it! If you look at that view through an artist’s eyes, the leaves of those tall palmetto trees (installed in 1975) could bear a resemblance to a lion’s mane. From there, Osceola’s grave and the Patapsco monument are right across Middle Street. I noticed that there was no reference to Osceola’s ostrich feather headdress, so again, that information would have had to come from either a tour guide, a history book, or one of the other area attractions (like the Charleston Museum downtown, where I found this painting.) The Patapsco monument obelisk next to it was very hard to read, since it looked like it was in need of a cleaning. I had to take cell-phone photos and mess with the filters in order to read all the names, but I wanted to be sure that there were no sailors named “West” who died at sea. There weren’t any other possibilities for a “West” side, so I think that Byron Preiss probably had his cardinal directions correct at this site. “At twelve paces, from the west side” would put you against the brick wall of the fort’s Northwest Bastion if you measured a pace as one full, two-footed stride. This measurement is still a little unclear to me since I also “paced” off twelve heel-to-toe steps, which wound up being about half that distance to the brick wall. Some of the old photos I pulled up showed a small (cypress??) shrub standing on that same spot, which could easily have been used as a marker. And just as a side note, even though Sullivan’s Island was “ground zero” when Hurricane Hugo hit back in 1989, it looks like this particular piece of ground hasn’t changed any since 1982, with the exception of the missing trees of course! For me, though, the main selling point for this particular dig site is that it’s relatively quiet and remote—Byron Preiss could have quickly and easily dug a spot here in the middle of the night, even if the dig site is in full view of the street. Also, the Visitor’s Center on Middle Street was created for America’s bicentennial, so it would have been a new and notable attraction during that era. I’d love to have the opportunity to review some of the Fort’s brochures or exhibits from 1982…as I write this the city of Charleston is planning to go ahead with construction of an African-American museum downtown, and it’d be fascinating to see how much attention this same story got only 35 years ago! So anyway, I’ve marked the spot for both NPS and the South Carolina State Archaeologist, so please keep your fingers crossed that either one of them might have reason to dig/excavate around the sallyport in the near future. I’d love to be able to close this casque out and stop calling my ideas a “theory”!

Steady on Josh, leave some for the rest of us... (Welcome to the madhouse.)

Everyone round here has their theories...but narrowing it down to a couple of feet, digging a hole, and pulling out a casque - or persuading someone else to - that's pretty tricky.

Hi JamesV - I really enjoyed reading your write up and looking at the photos you took. Sullivan's Island is such a relaxing and historic spot. I saw your diagram of where you think the casque is held, near the grave site in front of the Fort. Seems very logical based on the clues. Too bad digging is not allowed at this point. I hope you find a way to get in there. My only question on that theory is: Would that ground, even though a few paces away, be considered a grave site? Only asking because that was one of the rules; that nothing would be in a cemetery. Although, not a cemetery, still a sacred burial ground. I would like to get your thoughts. Regards, Mac

Macfos, welcome to the hunt. NPS has actually been very responsive throughout the last year, and especially since the "Expedition Unknown" episode first aired. Please keep your fingers crossed--you never know what 2018 might bring! Regarding the gravesite, here's the language used in the original rules: "The following places do not hold any treasure: (a) any life-threatening location, such as a dangerous highway embankment, a contaminated area or active railway track (b) any cemetery (c) any public or private flower bed (d) any property owned by the contributors to the book, their families or friends." It's a little hard to see from my photos, but Osceola's grave is a man-sized slab of concrete laying flat on the ground. The upright Patapsco monument obelisk is listed as being 2' wide at the base. While both memorials contain actual human remains, both are also clearly protected by waist-high iron fencing which was in place before 1981/1982. The casque location that I came up with would be either 5 or 10 yards away from both of these--- definitely in a sensitive area which would obviously require "permission to dig out", but also clearly outside the marked boundaries of any cemeteries/sacred burial sites.

Hello James - thanks, I'm really enjoying these hunts for the "secrets". The lion's forehead is just another clue to verifying that the casque is in Charleston. Its been educational to read more and more of the ideas being thrown about on all these threads. It has really helped me to take a step back from what seems "obvious" and reconsider other possibilities. I'm only one week into this after the Expedition Unknown episode and am really loving the challenge. I will try to jump in with ideas and get more feedback so, thank you guys. I am trying to catch up on reading as much of the previous pages as possible so I can see what everyone's thoughts are so bear with me. In fact, after realigning some thoughts today I'm more into the thinking that (and this has probably already been discussed): Between two arms extended (Low Battery and High Battery sea walls) Below the bar that binds (Connection of the sea walls) Beside the long palm's shadow (Where the setting sun creates a shadow of the extended arm from the Defender's Statue) Embedded in the sand (This refers to the landscape "beds" (em bed ded) up against the seawall where the shadow hits) And keep in mind, those are not flower beds so they can be dug next to the area between where the High Battery wall connects to the "bar" on the curve of the pennisula. My 2¢ worth, MrBackstop

Hi James - Glad to hear the NPS is interested and appears interest is growing, which helps the cause. Very good point that the graves are fenced in. I have been to Fort Moultrie many times. We are on Sullivan's Island or IOP every weekend during the spring and summer. We live just a quick drive to those beautiful beaches. Been to cold lately to get down there though. We just had 7 inches of snow here recently!! One thing that troubles me with the Charleston image is that I have not seen many thoughts or explanations/theories for the the woman in the picture, besides her wearing what are referred to as slave bracelets. Do you have any thoughts on that? Regards, Mac

Hi MrBackStop - When I first starting pouring over all of this information (I have read about 20K posts.. lol) that was my first thought. Then I remembered that the entire section of the area you are talking about was completely removed and rebuilt several years back, so if the casque was there, it is gone now. See the link below: http://mip.hcss.com/most-interesting-project/mip2015/projects/battery-seawall/ I look forward to your thoughts on image 2 as you progress through the information. There is a lot to catch up on for both of us! Regards, Mac

Other portions of the image that I have not seen much conversation on are: 1. The "Sunglasses" to the right of the Lion. (To me this looks more like a boom mast and definitely not sunglasses) 2. The hidden face above the "Sunglasses" 3. The top of the lions forehead (That jagged shape seems so odd) 4. The birthmark on the Lion (Not much theory, except a reference to the base of Defender's statue, which seems like a stretch, but who knows) 5. Of course the lady, especially her hair, closed eyes and overall body position 6. The idea of a moth or butterfly In the other images that have been solved, there were major landmark clues. To me the clues that have been brought up for image 2 are just general location for Charleston. i.e. Map, coordinates, Pear (for Silas Pearman bridge), and the outline of the state in the tree branch. And of course the Africa theme for slavery trade. Are we missing specific defining landmark clues? Some clues that are very specific to me as a local are: 1. The tree branch which is definitely highway 703 that leads from Downtown to Mt. Pleasant and then directly to Sullivan's Island 2. The Pear on the branch mentioned above would be a reference to Silas Pearman bridge 3. Fort Sumter medallion shape 4. The daisy really fits the Palmetto tree on the flag, along with the shaded portion of the pair showing the crescent moon Would like to get thoughts on this. Regards, Mac

I am on the ground in Charleston. Have been for 15 years. Regards, Mac

This is the closest thing I have seen to the medallion that looks like fort Sumter. It is a plaque at Battery Park. http://www.charlestonbatterytour.com/ch ... plaque.jpg

Hi pokerface - Very interesting. The wording of the sign does make the shape of Fort Sumter. Where is that plaque located? I have never seen it. Regards, Mac

It is at White Point Garden on the battery wall. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7693332 ... 704!8i4352 Note this whole area as previous posts have mentioned has been renovated so where it sat in 1982 I have no idea. '

I agree with Josh. It is either not the correct location or it has been lost. Regards, Mac

pokerfacegsh wrote:: It is at White Point Garden on the battery wall. https://www.google.com/maps/@32.7693332 ... 704!8i4352 Note this whole area as previous posts have mentioned has been renovated so where it sat in 1982 I have no idea. ' Yeah, that's quite fun, well spotted.

Macfos wrote:: Hi MrBackStop - When I first starting pouring over all of this information (I have read about 20K posts.. lol) that was my first thought. Then I remembered that the entire section of the area you are talking about was completely removed and rebuilt several years back, so if the casque was there, it is gone now. See the link below: http://mip.hcss.com/most-interesting-project/mip2015/projects/battery-seawall/ I look forward to your thoughts on image 2 as you progress through the information. There is a lot to catch up on for both of us! Regards, Mac Thanks for that image Mac. Very cool to see this image and you're right the casque could be gone. However, the photo of the rebuild only reinforces my solve. http://mip.hcss.com/wp-content/uploads/ ... tery-1.jpg Look at the first bush in the landscape bed. The construction photo shows undisturbed sandy ground to both sides. I believe the casque is on the right or left or even below that bush. Why? You ask? I believe the #33 in the Artwork represents the 1933 triangulation marker on the sea wall about 4-5 feet north of the edge of "The Turn". The marker is smaller than a cell phone in the Sea Wall between he first and second post just North of the new cement. Which brings me to another point, the shape of the post is represented on the forehead of the mask,...some have called a skull. That skull actually represents the Old City Jail (built in 1680 which is a reason for the #80 in the lion's mane), but I digress. The setting sun creates a shadow from the Defender's Staue extended arm (palm) on the sea wall near that 1933 triangulation marker and verse states: Below the bar that binds ( The Turn ) Beside the long palm's shadow ( The palm of the extended hand on the Defender's Statue ) So if the treasure has not already been discovered, it is embedded in that landscape bed in the area of that bush. Depending on when that bush was planted and how shallow it was planted ( doesn't need a lot of depth for a young bush ) could mean it might be under or partially under that bush or "Beside" another bush against that wall. MrBackstop

JoshCornell wrote:: you are close man, but that is not the right location you have linked on your google image... Look at the street view and if you look to the left and down on the ground you can see the marker. It is on the ground in the turn of the battery. There is also another marker to the right but I cannot make out what it is or find a picture.

Macfos wrote:: I agree with Josh. It is either not the correct location or it has been lost. Regards, Mac Or maybe that Wiki site has just been using the wrong Verse for this particular Image?

Unknown: Which brings me to another point, the shape of the post is represented on the forehead of the mask,...some have called a skull. That skull actually represents the Old City Jail (built in 1680 which is a reason for the #80 in the lion's mane), but I digress. Interesting idea...but the Old City Jail has to be at least half a mile away, next to the Beaufain Street housing projects. I'd probably give more credence to this idea if you could at least see the jail from WPG. I started working from the "established" I2/V6 pairing myself last year, but ended up going back to the drawing board mainly due to the lack of visual confirmations near any of the proposed dig sites along the Battery. Definitely take the time to read through the I2 and V5/V6 threads in their entirety-- it's fascinating to see how these ideas have been examined over time. Keep hunting!

JamesV wrote:: Interesting idea...but the Old City Jail has to be at least half a mile away, next to the Beaufain Street housing projects. I'd probably give more credence to this idea if you could at least see the jail from WPG. I started working from the "established" I2/V6 pairing myself last year, but ended up going back to the drawing board mainly due to the lack of visual confirmations near any of the proposed dig sites along the Battery. Definitely take the time to read through the I2 and V5/V6 threads in their entirety-- it's fascinating to see how these ideas have been examined over time. Keep hunting! I'm just saying the Old City Jail reinforces the Charleston area. If you look at the Mask/Skull you will notice the skull shape is just like that of the unusual front windows with the 2 smaller windows inside the one large pointed opening. Also, the "eyes" of the Mask/Skull appear to be upside down jail windows with bars on them. And like I said, the casque could have been found by someone other than us on this board especially if that entire landscape bed has been searched. Since I'm a newbie at this let me ask this question, "Are all the clues supposed to be able to be seen from the treasue spot?" I mean in Chicago, could the casque be seen from the Chicago Water Tower or the statues? I haven't really looked at the SOLVED images yet. thanks

Unknown: by JamesV » Sat Jan 27, 2018 10:19 am Or maybe that Wiki site has just been using the wrong Verse for this particular Image? Correct James. I meant for consideration of verse 6. Regards, Mac

My theory is that the cask is actually in White Point Garden and not along the battery. (If still present given multiple floods, hurricanes etc.) I think the reference to treasure island is important in Verse 6 is important. When I think about pirates and how they hid their treasure, I think about X marks the spot. I feel the rest of the verse is giving the four points to make an X from points in the park. Palm trees can live up to 100 years and assuming none have been destroyed over time. (That is a big assumption) There is one palm tree just behind the Confederate Defenders of Charleston statue that appears to be the largest in the park. "Beside the long palm's shadow" would indicate it is near this tree. Between two arms could be a line drawn between the statues or the cannons. Below the bar that binds. There are metal bars that bind the blocks along the edge of the Confederate Defenders of Charleston Statue near where a cross point of the arms and the shadow would sit. Also, I have not seen any thoughts about the verse Edwin and Edwina named after him. One of the most famous pirates was Edward Teach otherwise known as Blackbeard. I know he occupied Charleston for some time. This is also the same time that Stede Bonnet was captured. (The memorial stone about pirate hanging in White Point Garden.)

Here I juxtaposed the two images I think you're talking about: I guess I kind of see it. But a lot of times I miss obvious features, so I'm not the best judge of this Also, you GOTTA check out those Chi and Cle solves, it's easily the #1 thing that will help you with new ones. Welcome to the hunt!

Hi drunknerds - What year is the picture above image 2 you posted? Also, I am going to scout some spots in about 30 minutes... Will be gone most of the afternoon and will post my findings later this evening, if anything of interest comes up. Regards, Mac

So the forth sumpter pentagon's pole-and-shadow can also be thought of as a clock face that reads 4:00. 4:00 PM is also about the time the sun's position would cause that shadow. So... let's check out the shadow of the palms by the Moultrie statue at 4 pm... To the satellite!

Macfos wrote:: Hi drunknerds - What year is the picture above image 2 you posted? Also, I am going to scout some spots in about 30 minutes... Will be gone most of the afternoon and will post my findings later this evening, if anything of interest comes up. Regards, Mac Hi! It's the Old City Jail in Charleston that MrBackstop was referencing a few posts earlier

Caution yourselves to consider the shadow searching concept requiring sun position and time of day can be very difficult to pull off or replicate. Kit Williams used that method, so it is possible. Another read of the word shadow could simply mean one thing is perceived as less than or diminished by comparison to another. Yet another interpretation could point to following in someone else's footsteps or repeating the same task.

erexere wrote:: Kit Williams used that method, so it is possible. Europe was forever trolled by a guy hiding a treasure in England in a location that can only be found when it is sunny.

Exere, that's a good point with time and time of year. If the 4:00 position represents April as the diamond does, then the angle of the setting sun in April will be later in the day and several feel away from where that is today. Good Luck and a big go get'em to Mac!

I think April is a big part of this puzzle. Also, I think it's important to think "where would a Baobab Tree Spirit think to hide the casque?" I get that Charleston has its deep historic roots, but how exactly does that lead us to a perspective formed by the wood "in-dwellers".

erexere wrote:: Caution yourselves to consider the shadow searching concept requiring sun position and time of day can be very difficult to pull off or replicate. Kit Williams used that method, so it is possible. Another read of the word shadow could simply mean one thing is perceived as less than or diminished by comparison to another. Yet another interpretation could point to following in someone else's footsteps or repeating the same task. I don't think it has to be exact because it just says near.

Sure. I suppose he could've buried it at 4pm's shadow and assumed someone could solve the clues to get near the same spot. Upon failing to find the exact spot, he would've stepped in to say they are close enough.

Maybe of interest. The 80 in the lions mane. 80 broad street is city hall, which backs up to Washington Square. Has a statue of Tilrod. See explanation under verse 5 thread to Simms and Tilrod. Regards, Mac

Since I wrote up my I2/V5 "solve" on 12/31 ( https://jamesvachowski.com/2017/12/31/t ... ns-island/ ), it's been cool to hear such positive responses from so many people. This morning our local newspaper, the Post and Courier, ran a short feature story on the hunt. It's a little light on specifics since the reporter was concerned about the possibility of alerting vandal diggers, but here's the link to the story in case anyone's interested: https://www.postandcourier.com/news/mys ... 45303.html As far as I know, this is the first time that the Charleston casque has received any kind of media coverage. Here's hoping it'll generate some new interest in the search. Keep hunting!

Hi JamesV - Very cool article! Excited to see that type of promotion for our area! Regards, Mac

Interesting find. Marion square has been putting up a Christmas tree every year since 1913. Maybe reference to the "ornaments" hanging on the branch? Also, if you look at Marion Square the paths make a big X across the park. With the piracy theme, maybe X marks the spot?? Regards, Mac

Does anyone know how many holes the U.S.S. Maine Capstan has total?

I would guess 16 by looking at the different angles of photos I could find.

I thought the Daisy might represent the USS Maine Capstan but it has 17 petals :/

So in the image, the woman really bothers me. Meaning there has really been no solid idea of what she and her wings mean. I said this in another post, but it bears repeating: "Why do we have a lack of specific location clues in image 2, but other images have very specific landmarks, etc?" Image 2 only appears to have links to the general city, Charleston SC. Brought me to thinking about the book in general. All of the Fairy talk. Do we assume maybe she is a Fairy? If so, should we be looking at things that pertain to the Ferry (transport) industry that used to be in Charleston? Or the many streets named Ferry? Also, does the woman not resemble Christ on the cross, with the closed eyes, tilted head, crown of thorns and legs crossed? Thoughts? Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: So in the image, the woman really bothers me. Meaning there has really been no solid idea of what she and her wings mean...Do we assume maybe she is a Fairy? Bear in mind that images are associated with nationalities, and these play a part in the locations; eg Image 4 is Greece, and the casque was in the Greek garden. It's unlikely, though not impossible, that these nationalities have any more important clues to offer; their clues have probably already been spent in identifying the cities and their immigrant populations. But anyway, they were part of the foundation of the puzzle, and are discussed in the book's introduction. This talks about how the fairy spirits of Africa "fluttered down like a windfall of butterflies". The woman in Image 1 is clearly a butterfly, so whatever else it might mean, it's a clue to link it with Africa, which leads to Charleston.

Hi whiterabbit - Yes, I agree with your statement. The problem I keep running into personally is that the clues only lead back to Charleston in general. I keep looking for something unique that would be an identifier for a more specific location, such as the post and railing for Chicago or the water tower or the horse rider statue. I may just need to change my train of thought, but the lack of specific imagery clues has me baffled. So my strategy is to visit a long list of places I have gathered clues on and just look around, read signs and check things out, in the hopes that a shape or idea I see on the ground will some how connect me to something that has been missed in the drawing. If not, oh well, I get to be a tourist in my own city, spend time with my family and learn some history! Regards, Mac

Here's my thoughts on the woman. She is the capstan. Remember, ships are referred to in the feminine persuasion. Her wings are the different peninsulas of Charleston and include the different cannons (circles with white centers) in the area. The two on the lower wings are the ones in WPG today right next to the Moultrie statue. The white edges to the butterfly wings represent the white oyster shell sands that wash up all over these beaches. Bare with me here and of course, I could be out of my mind, but the highlights across her stomach remind me of the holes at the top of the capstan. The shadow under her ribs and the "holes" are the top of the capstan with the highlights just above the ribs, along with her chest is the top of the capstan. As we move lower, the dark shadow moving down to her groin and thighs is the rest of the capstan. Her legs rising out of the smoky blue color are symbolic of her (the capstan) rising from the sea after being retrieved from the USS Maine. And I'll add this, the white triangle (purposeful triangle) in the cloth around her waist points directly to the diamond. These are many of the reasons I believe in White Point Garden as the location. The landscape bed along the battery seems like a good spot but the question remains...where? Many here and elsewhere have said that bed has been completely poked, prodded and dug. So my other spot would be to the right of the woman, now Moultrie, in the ground near the walk.

I will point out she is the only nearly naked picture out of the images and the statue of the Confederate Defenders of Charleston is a nearly naked man. Coincidence?

I started a facebook group as well if anyone is interested. https://www.facebook.com/groups/452250255178033/

Could the large eye sockets of the mask in P2 be a refernce to the Poe story of Gold Bug, especially since the mask is gold and V5 talks about pacing out from the tree as it does in Poes Gold Bug?? Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: Could the large eye sockets of the mask in P2 be a refernce to the Poe story of Gold Bug Yep, you'll find various discussions of Gold Bug if you use the forum search. Possible Poe references in V5: The Balloon Hoax - concerning a balloon that lands on Sullivan's Island - "a wingless bird ascended" The Cask of Amontillado - "walls of solid granite". Ligeia - "The phantasmagoric effect was vastly heightened by the artificial introduction of a strong continual current of wind behind the draperies giving a hideous and uneasy animation to the whole. In halls such as these - in a bridal chamber such as this - I passed, with the Lady of Tremaine, the unhallowed hours of the first month of our marriage."

I agree with White Rabbit’s solution here. The solution proposed to Fort Moultrie is spot on. The only part I would amend would be the ending. The reference to “Osceola” I believe is the white stone in front of Fort Moultrie, ten paces from the west side, you have your precise spot. Put this one in the “solved but not recoverable” category.

Also let me add this to my previous post. The girl is the capstan. Notice how in her bikini top the folds look like palm leaves and the tie in the middle like coconuts. So what I'm saying is the capstan IS the palm...Symbolically as a palm tree casting a long shadow and metaphorically as a human hand palm. When a capstan like this one is used posts stick out of the holes to be pushed by the sailors to turn the winch and bind the ropes. The top of the capstan is the palm with the posts being the fingers.

MrBackstop wrote:: Notice how in her bikini top the folds look like palm leaves and the tie in the middle like coconuts. This is great work, definitely merits a longer observation. I'll take it from here.

It vaguely resembles a palm tree, however the only problem with that thought is that our Palm trees don't have coconuts here in SC. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: It vaguely resembles a palm tree, however the only problem with that thought is that our Palm trees don't have coconuts here in SC. Regards, Mac Nice

So perhaps the artist took some liberties with the palm tree or I just took some liberties with my vision. More importantly I see the capstan as the palm.

Hi Mr. Backstop! You mentioned the girl referencing the capstan. Have you seen the statue on at Gibbes Museum of Art on Meeting Street? I believe the girl in Image 2 is a reference to her. Animal Painter posted a picture on Oct 18, 2009 post, 6:38 pm. It is on page 25 of this thread. I read something about the way the girl is drawn as being a nod to the Flying Charleston and the Hand to Hand Charleston (dances). (Crossed legs, hand to hand and wings to fly) I thought that was pretty clever.

gajojo, that is a cool reference. She could definitely be the inspiration for our Charleston woman. Nice catch.

Thought the official logo is a pretty good match. http://stellamarischurch.org/page/christmas-schedule-2017 Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: Thought the official logo is a pretty good match. http://stellamarischurch.org/page/christmas-schedule-2017 Regards, Mac Ohhhhhh! Macfos gets in a hilarious zinger, I assume against the Catholic church

Lol... at least someone around here has a sense of humor... Regards, Mac

Looking for some help with this solve: I'm trying to take out my eyeballs, do I want to use a flathead screwdriver or a hexagonal socket wrench? Thanks in advance, Preiss was really ambiguous about this part of the puzzle

try a drumstick.

erexere wrote:: try a drumstick. That's what I was using for my initial probing. There's something down there, like 1-2". But it may just be a root

drunknerds wrote:: Looking for some help with this solve: I'm trying to take out my eyeballs, do I want to use a flathead screwdriver or a hexagonal socket wrench? Thanks in advance, Preiss was really ambiguous about this part of the puzzle I think a grapefruit spoon will work nicely.

Thanks Josh, here's what I have: The key to this picture is the eyes. Note that the lion's eyes glow like a gem. The fairies eyes are closed: She doesn't want to give away her gems. The pentagon at the bottom right resembles an african tribal mask to reinforce the African theme and direct our attention to the eyes: The key is the eyes. If you want to reveal someone's Secret, you look behind their mask Now, pay attention to the double-arched skull, which is an exact match for when I x-rayed my brain while arching my eyes: So, all I need to do is remove my own eyeballs and It's in there. But both a hex-wrench and a flathead screwdriver seem necessary, which is confusingly redundant. So I'm stuck.

JoshCornell1 wrote:: that wasnt serious...was it? If it was serious, I would have said, "I'm 100% sure about my solve, but I don't want to share details yet. All I can say is, someone's getting stabbed in the face."

drunknerds wrote:: If it was serious, I would have said, "I'm 100% sure about my solve, but I don't want to share details yet. All I can say is, someone's getting stabbed in the face." Hahahaha!

Hello all, much like a lot of people I saw the Secret on Expedition Unknown. We happen to be in Charleston the weekend after that show. A couple of things I noticed after looking at image 2 and being at White Point Garden. The old capstan statue's base was much larger than the existing Moultrie statue. There is either a metal plate over the hole that they made when they removed the capstan in 2007 or they filled it with concrete. I found some information about the companies that removed and replaced the statues. I have not had any luck contacting them to see if they have any records regarding the exchange. They are Soil Consultants Inc of Charleston and Berenyi, Inc. I have phone numbers if anyone would like to try to contact them. The reason I bring these up is I believe the casque is buried beside the path where the old capstan used to sit. The main reason i believe this is that the "birthmark" on the lion's head is almost an identical match to the 1980's view of Havana bay in Cuba, where the USS Maine was sunk. Any questions, comments, or thoughts that I am crazy are fine, just let me know. Sorry for such a long post.

Smokey Joe Would wrote:: Hello all, much like a lot of people I saw the Secret on Expedition Unknown. We happen to be in Charleston the weekend after that show. A couple of things I noticed after looking at image 2 and being at White Point Garden. The old capstan statue's base was much larger than the existing Moultrie statue. There is either a metal plate over the hole that they made when they removed the capstan in 2007 or they filled it with concrete. I found some information about the companies that removed and replaced the statues. I have not had any luck contacting them to see if they have any records regarding the exchange. They are Soil Consultants Inc of Charleston and Berenyi, Inc. I have phone numbers if anyone would like to try to contact them. The reason I bring these up is I believe the casque is buried beside the path where the old capstan used to sit. The main reason i believe this is that the "birthmark" on the lion's head is almost an identical match to the 1980's view of Havana bay in Cuba, where the USS Maine was sunk. Any questions, comments, or thoughts that I am crazy are fine, just let me know. Sorry for such a long post. This was good work. Have not heard that Havana bay theory before.

SJW, welcome to the hunt! While I respectfully disagree with you on both the location and the Image/Verse pairing, it's exciting to see "our" casque finally getting the attention it deserves.

I am trying to add the picture of Havana Harbor, but I can't figure out how to do that. Any assistance would be helpful.

Smokey Joe Would wrote:: I am trying to add the picture of Havana Harbor, but I can't figure out how to do that. Any assistance would be helpful. Hi Smokey, You have to upload the photo to an image hosting site, such as www.imgur.com . Then you can just post the link here or use the Img option to embed the .jpg into your post.

Here is a link to the image Smokey Joe is referring to: https://www.digitalcommonwealth.org/search/commonwealth:4m90fk355 Regards, Mac

An interesting match proposal: In my opinion, it doesn't quite fit: The "horsehead stain" seems to have ~7 appendages, whereas I can only find 4 in Havana Bay Keep it coming though, one day we'll crack that skull

Agreed... it is close, but you can't account for a lot of the other shading. In addition to the "forehead stain" I am intrigued with the odd hairline. Regards, Mac

Macfos wrote:: Agreed... it is close, but you can't account for a lot of the other shading. In addition to the "forehead stain" I am intrigued with the odd hairline. Regards, Mac The hairline on the lion looks like a coastline to me. I got a partial match to northern Spain, but yeah, not sure.

Unknown: gManTexas wrote: The hairline on the lion looks like a coastline to me. I got a partial match to northern Spain, but yeah, not sure. Yeah, that is what I have been looking at, but have not found anything matching... Regards, Mac

The left side seems like a close enough match. The right side, however, has those three appendages on the skull that don't translate to the one inlet on the map. Sorry everyone if I'm using the wrong map terms.

Macfos wrote:: Yeah, that is what I have been looking at, but have not found anything matching... Regards, Mac And the nose/mouth of the lion is all this https://imgur.com/a/P4w1V

MrSeabass wrote:: I'm not seeing any sort of match. It makes no sense to include something as ambiguous as that when a super clear and obvious map of the peninsula/bay/islands already exists on the image. Oh, that's a good point, I forgot about that. This is so Rorschach, I wonder if Preiss ever got any angry letters, "why did you paint a picture of my Uncle naked on the skull?"

strike13 wrote:: And the nose/mouth of the lion is all this https://imgur.com/a/P4w1V I feel like it is a much better match for the highways above where you circled, but your point still stands.

MrSeabass wrote:: ...again, why would there be *two* maps of the same place on the image? The lion does not contain any sort of map whatsoever. damn where is the like button when you need it...

...again, why would there be *two* maps of the same place on the image? The lion does not contain any sort of map whatsoever.[/quote] well i think 2 maps because one encompasses more territory, more of the coast of that area of sc, where the nose and mouth are, and the other one, on whatever that figure is, is similar to a zoomed in version of actual charleston. i think there are many maps in every image, and they just keep getting more and more intricate and narrowed down to where exactly the casque is at.