Quest4Treasure Archives

I believe this image falls under the following theme: January (1 o'clock) Garnet White Carnation English Theme "Fairies of England proudly bear Garnet, crown-jewel of their Queen."

Dan's high res pics have really brought this image to life.  BTW, I believe this is really image 2 in the book, although we are calling it image 3. Near the bottom right of the picture is a spoon with a pea in it.  I bet this is an actual work of art somewhere.  Time to do some searching.......... On the body of the armor appears to be an outline of something which has a hole on the right side.  Can't think of what this is, though.  My guess is that this pic has a lot of imagery reflecting the location of the casque, just like the Grant Park picture.  Notice the symbols on the armor body and arms, and the different left and right armor on the body (one has "stonework" and one doesn't).  Even the mouth has different left and right symbols on it. Now for the delusional stuff. Take a look at the hands.  The fingers seem to be indicating something.  The hand on the left side has its fingers showing the actual number 3 sideways (ignoring the finger not in the picture frame).  The fingers on the right hand look like "P" and then a sideways "v".  There are other possibilities too depending on which way you tilt your head, and how much coffee is in your system.

Egbert, why do you say image 2? in book this is third image.. I like the hands, yes look like they mean something. Are the holes you are refereing to the "dents," 1 in the left abdomin, there is also on on the left arm. Always thought this picture might be a reference to a crucifix, the pose, along with the injury in the left abdomin.. One of my favorite images, so much detail!!!

I don't have the book, and I don't remember the order.  I believe the high res scans call this image 2, but I could be wrong. In any event, here are some links for the sculpture garden in Minneapolis: hxxp://www.artsconnected.org/search/art.cfm?DBowner=WAC&id=713 hxxp://www.artsconnected.org/search/classroom.cfm?DBowner=WAC&id=77&nonav=no hxxp://www.theslowlane.com/91tripb/web.html hxxp://216.239.41.104/search?q=cache:mj1veI262mwJ:www.conmicro.cx/~kturtle/diaries/swed/photos/+sculpture+giant+spoon&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 hxxp://daryllang.com/dogs/day01.html hxxp://www.walkerart.org/resources/res_msg_mapframe.html Someone had mentioned the spoon with a cherry in another thread, and it seems to match.  The "dangling items" in the wire mesh sculpture (with columns) certainly parallel the dangling items in the armor pic.  Also, looking at that sculpture from above, it would look like the design on the mouth of the armor. btw, yes, the "holes" to which I was referring are the dents in the armor.  I was thinking that we would see more matches with the armor somewhere in the sculpture garden, but I can't find any more.

Unknown: The book was published before those sculptures existed. Oops!  Didn't catch that.  Oh well, back to the drawing board.  I originally thought that this picture related to Boston, anyway --- I will have to go back and look at my notes to see why.

Reading recent posts finally led me to find my copy of the book the other day.  I am playing catch up, but the peaspoon would seem to link back to the Paul Revere connection with verse 3.  Revere was a silversmith who made peaspoons.  FWIW.

Did a quick search on Paul Revere and also on the lanterns warning about the british attack. Now I dont know much about america history so dont know if you all know this but Paul Revere was one of the people who warned about the attack after seeing the 2 lanterns hxxp://www.reclaimamerica.org/PAGES/NEW ... 20Abortion So looks like this image and verse 3 are connected and about boston. The church is in the north end section of boston so i've got a link for different parts of it. So far I only have one guess of wher the starting postion could be. Thucydides money came from gold (armour in image is gold) and wrote about the Peloponnesian War as well as being a general who lost a key city. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thucydides ... /THUCY.HTM Xenophon knew Thucydides and also was a writer and some of his work is Anabasis and the Hellenica, which is a continuation of the history of Thucydides. He also seems to  have joined the Spartans aginst Athens which I think was where he was born. Now where there any people seen as tratiors when the events of the british attack and if so anything to mark them e.g. statues. Or perhaps someone who wrote about it like Henry Wadsworth Longfellow. I know he is burried at Mount Auburn Cemetery Cambridgewhich is outside Boston also seems to be a park there. However I thnk its going ot be the old north we should look at. This seems to be a good link but Ive no time to search deeply but it highlights places in the old north of boston hxxp://www.northendweb.com/history.html

Unknown: Take a look at the hands.  The fingers seem to be indicating something. So, don't any of you lot speak American Sign Language?  Anyone? Shawn

I know some ASL signs and fingerspelling.  The hands do not say anything to me.  However, i'm not fluent.  Do you think the puzzle setter is?

Unknown: Reading recent posts finally led me to find my copy of the book the other day.  I am playing catch up, but the peaspoon would seem to link back to the Paul Revere connection with verse 3.  Revere was a silversmith who made peaspoons.  FWIW. I don't want to be critical, Frish, but is that the only reason we think this image represents Boston?  I realize that we have only one example to go by, but I don't remember any such...shall we say, "intricate" clues in that other picture pointing to Chicago; just a couple of well-known landmarks disguised as parts of a castle.

Unknown: So, don't any of you lot speak American Sign Language?  Anyone? Shawn Alas, no--but that doesn't mean I think you're off track.  🙂

After spending a lot of time with Verse 11 leading me to Roanoke, i decided to scrutinize the images in search of a visual link.  How about the shape in the wall on the right side of Image 3, just to the knight's left side? I cut out a section of the high-rez image to zoom in on what i mean. hxxp://catwood.leftbrained.org/TheSecre ... oanoke.jpg Use MapQuest to zoom in on Roanoke Island, NC, or compare to this map: hxxp://www.insiders.com/outerbanks/map- ... island.htm While I have your attention, there is a repeated theme on the armor that strikes me as an important symbol.  It is a circle (or oval) with two vertical lines which angle away at both ends.  Here is another look: hxxp://catwood.leftbrained.org/TheSecre ... ircles.jpg They appear on the shoulder of the armour (on his left shoulder, our right side of the image) and is repeated on the center breastplate and even in each "elbow pit" as ovals. Tell me i'm crazy, or help me find the international symbol for "dig here"!

Cat, thats a good connection between the island and that design.  but i still think image 3 points to Boston.  All the metal thats in the picture, the "crucifiction" pose of the armor, and the metal bells point to Paul Revere (he was a blaksmith) and the church theme of his freedom ride at midnight. NOTE:  anyone please post any ideas you ahve about this pic being boston going along with verse 3

Unknown: Cat, thats a good connection between the island and that design.  but i still think image 3 points to Boston.  All the metal thats in the picture, the "crucifiction" pose of the armor, and the metal bells point to Paul Revere (he was a blaksmith) and the church theme of his freedom ride at midnight. NOTE:  anyone please post any ideas you ahve about this pic being boston going along with verse 3 You're all probably tired of my naysaying, but I don't recall any "symbolic" clues in the centaur or castle pictures; just straightforward (although disguised) representations of things found in the neighborhood of the casques.  And Revere was a silversmith, not a blacksmith.

blacksmith, silversmith....its all the same to m .   Anyway, the whole picture screams "metal worker", and thats what Revere was.  also, theres a huge bell that he made sitting in the courtyard of his house. not quite sure what that little "bat" looking critter is hanging off the left (our left) wrist off the armor.  also, on the left side of the pic, theres two bubbles and one bell.  on the right side, theres 2 bells and one bubble.  whats that all mean???

Yes, he made bells, cannon balls, some of the metal supports that are in the USS Constitution were made by Revere.  Also, look at whats hanging from the two bells on the right side.  What looks to be a cannon ball, and what looks to be a tea bag.  Boston tea party anyone???  So by now, you should be 100 percent convinced this is the pic for Boston.

things keep popping back into my mind: -the "celtic" symbols as some people have talked about........the BOSTON Celtics ? just more evidence pointing to boston

just to confuse things.... I was looking for the archway on behind the suit of armour. I thought it might be a window in a famous boston church. but I looked and looked and couldn't find one - almost all the ones I found in boston are semi circular arches - not pointed like the one in the picture. But I did find a dead ringer for the arch - unfortunately its on the brooklyn bridge...

and to continue that thought the thing on his right wrist, always looked like a planetarium projector to me. The most famous one I know of is the Zeiss projector at the hayden planetarium in New York. The statue of liberty face always seemed to obvious in pic 12 for it to be New York, the author likes red herrings i.e., the Congress reference in the chicago verse. but thats just me...

The teabag is interesting.  I never saw that as a teabag before, but it could be.  Any idea what the bell looks like which is at Paul Revere's house?  My guess is that those bells match something in real life.

Here is the 900 lb bell in the courtyard as well as other info.  It isnt a dead ringer (groan) but it looks like the smaller bell hanging from the left arm.

Unknown: Here is the 900 lb bell in the courtyard as well as other info.  It isnt a dead ringer (groan) but it looks like the smaller bell hanging from the left arm. ooops, sorry...forgot the link  hxxp://www.paulreverehouse.org/theman/coppermill.html

Some observations: --4-leaf clover with stem (on left shoulder/chest piece, the knight's left) among the many tiny bumps on the lower edging. --a cross at the bottom of a jagged hill, on the wall on the left side of the pic (our left) to the left of the lower foot of that creature holding the carnation-globe. --small rounded triangle under key hanging on ring from the knight's right arm. --Is there a big 5 or a D in the lower right on the wall? --Johann

there appears to be a spoon, of all things, just to the left of your big D or 5 or little b, right side bottom of pillar. Also, the spoon looks like it has a marble or round ball in it. wilhouse

To go along with Johann's observation about the cross, i think that may be important. It seems like there are several numbers around it. On the left side i think there is a 4 and maybe a 7. I think there are some other numbers around it as well. I don't have my book in front of me but i think there was a 29 or or 2915 or 29'5 between the cross and the leg of the of the hanging form (on the part of the wall that juts out).

Blowing up the picture, there is definately a 38 "written" on the wall directly to the left of the key, about the same height as the small bubble with nothing in it. It looks like there is a another number right next to it, but it's hard to see. Could be 84. what's hanging off the imp's foot near the bottom? wilhouse

Unknown: and to continue that thought the thing on his right wrist, always looked like a planetarium projector to me. I'm pretty sure it's just a mace (a medieval weapon),but it also looks like an underwater mine.  In any case I'm sure you'll see it in the vicinity of the casque. That thing hanging below it beneath the armor's wrist has what looks like the head of some animal.  My guess is it's a sculpture, or a ship's figurehead, or maybe a carousel figure, also nearby our casque. BTW: Good point about the arch-window.  After seeing the Cleveland picture I'll bet that window is out there somewhere too.

Unknown: things keep popping back into my mind: -the "celtic" symbols as some people have talked about........the BOSTON Celtics ? That might explain the four-leaf clover

heres a few new things that ive found in the picture.  they're kind of strange, and im not sure what to make of them.  they might be big finds, or they could just be "easter eggs."  not really sure, let me know what you all think. [img]C:\Documents%20and%20Settings\BUISNESS%20CENTER%202\Desktop\outline-pic3.bmp[/img]

the image doesn't come up on my screen. also, how do you post an image to the responses? wilhouse

well, the URL of that image is file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/BUISNESS%20CENTER%202/Desktop/outline-pic3.bmp which is on his local hard drive.  Sorry, but it has to be sitting on a publically accessible server for us to see it. As for inline pictures, you can use YABBC tags.  Click on the 4th button in the 2nd row of icons on the Post form, above the row of smileys.  Your image URL should begin with hxxp://

ive seen otherpictures that have a url from this site, and i think they're normal users.  anyway,should i use a live journal type web site to post pictures ?? as for what i was posting, theres a couple "faces" in the stones.  one of them is inbetween the belly of the sculpture thing and the top of the cross.  the other one is coming out the left side of the pedastal near the crown molding stuff near the top of it.  ive outline them in photoshop so that you can see them better, and when i can post the pic to a site, i will.

I might have made a discovery about picture 3 that is WAY off track from what people have been thinking. But, as with the Congress reference being to Chicago, it is possible. All right. Paul Revere has come up frequently in association with this picture. Also, christian references with the position of the armor and the cross in the wall. Here's where the stretch comes in, but it's not a huge one. Look at the hands. The one on the right seems to be shaping the number "9" with his thumb and ring finger. THe left hand, using the first, middle and ring fingers, makes a black "3". "93" Look at the wall to the far left and far right above the floor molding. The cracks suggest a "4" on the left and a "5" on the right. "45" 45N 95W is the lat./long. of St. Paul, Minnesota. Paul Revere reference and a Christian reference. Please take shots at this theory. I can't see anything wrong with it. Jason [email protected] AOL: Stageman97

At the risk of sounding like an idiot, does anyone see the 75 formed by the cracks in the wall on the lower right (EDIT: to the right of the spoon in big numbers)?  I noticed this about a month ago and haven't been able to "unsee" it since. I also like the idea that the hands are forming a 3 (left) and 9 (right) which caused me to do some checking into Philadelphia over the past few weeks. For you Boston fans out there, Paul Revere frequently made rides to New York and Philadelphia from Boston, most notably regarding the Continental Congress. Philadelphia is full of statuary and the there are some comprehensive sites online: hxxp://fpaa.org/ (virtually map of major statuary and information) hxxp://www.philart.net/ (even more listings of public art) I'll spare you some tenuous connections unless this discussion appears fruitful, but there is one interesting thing that might be there. I always felt strongly that there would be a statue or fountain corresponding to the dancing woman figure holding up the bubble/orb thing.  An exhaustive search turned up this: hxxp://www.askart.com/artist/F/beatrice ... p?ID=41220 As far as I can tell, the picture on this page is of another one of her works, but it appears more similar than anything else I've been able to find.  Fairmont Park has a statue of Beatrice Fenton's called "Nereid" and I have not been able to find any picture of it.  But the descriptions I have read sound quite similar to this -- a dancing figure emerging from water with some sort of ocean creatures beneath her. Does anyone live in the area that has actually seen this? Also, she has another piece named "Fairy Fountain" located in Wister Woods Park, which is a ways north from the Fairmont Park, Philadelphia area. Just some food for thought. >>>Dan

Unknown: Here's where the stretch comes in, but it's not a huge one. Look at the hands. The one on the right seems to be shaping the number "9" with his thumb and ring finger. THe left hand, using the first, middle and ring fingers, makes a black "3". "93" Look at the wall to the far left and far right above the floor molding. The cracks suggest a "4" on the left and a "5" on the right. "45" Whoa!  Bwayjace, I think I inadvertently ripped off your theory.  I didn't even bother to read through the last few posts before I wrote that.  On the other hand, it may confirm that I am not crazy and seeing numbers everywhere.

The coordinates for Boston are 42 x 71. Fooling around with the numbers 39 and 75: Philadelphia:  39 or 40  x 75 St. Louis:  39 or 38  x 90 Cape Hatteras, N.C. :  35 x 75 Bwayjace's suggestions may of course be correct, but I doubt that a number would be split up on the wall (ie, the "45").  The hands are a different story.  I actually thought the hand on the left was signaling the number "3," but I do see the possible "9" there. By the way, there's a round object to the right of the spoon.  It's too faint to make out what it is, so it's probably the shape that is important.

well guys, no good news to report.  i walked the entire Freedom Trail today, and came up with nothing.  I'll be going to Fenway, Copely Square, Museum of Fine Arts, and Harvard tomorrow, but i was certain i would find it somewhere on the freedom trail.  i'll post again tomorrow night to let ya know the days news.

also, i emailed Byron at [email protected] a few days ago, and he still hasnt read it (i have aol, so i can check the status) has anyone else had this problem of late replies??  I asked him to confirm that there is a treasure in Boston.  Let me know.

loph, I found that if he doesn't answer pretty quickly, it won't get answered. of the 6 times I emailed him, he responded three times same day, 2 of those within an hour, and once 2 days later (over the weekend).  The other two times, no response. wilhouse

As I mentioned in another thread, I believe there is a connection with the faeries' country of origin and where each treasure is buried.  The Irish faeries buried their treasure in Chicago, where there is a large Irish population.  The Greek faeries buried their treasure in the Greek Cultural Gardens in Cleveland. "Fairies of England proudly bear Garnet, crown-jewel of their Queen." So, this picture refers to the English faeries.  Canada could fit, as well as Boston I suppose (although the colonists rebelled against England, so maybe not).  The Elizabethan Gardens in North Carolina would work nicely as well.  Any other ideas?

heres a link to the "outline" i made of pic 3, that shows some other stuff etched into the walls, let me know what you think. hxxp://community.webshots.com/scripts/e ... ity=VsAamv

loph, couldn't see it. here's the error message I get: An error has occurred. You do not appear to be the owner of this album. Make sure you are logged in. Please push the Back button on your browser to correct this problem. Thank you. if you can't find another place, go to yahoo groups, armchair_treasure_hunting and click on files. You can post there with Egbert and me. wilhouse

ok, i WILL get this right someday hers the new link to the pic. hxxp://photos.groups.yahoo.com/group/ar ... 2b-%2boutl ine.jpg%3fbcvQcrvBeQwXheQ9&.cx=94&.cy=150&.type=u heres another link to try as well: hxxp://community.webshots.com/album/145211290FXGCQr

both links work for me!! wilhouse

since they work, what do you think???    not sure if any of those secondary pics are clues.  doesnt really matter for me anymore, i had no success here in boston kinda of a bummer, thought i was going to get this one.  oh well.  still going to work on it though.  talk to you guys later.

now looking at my book, I can definitely see the 38.  I had never seen that before, thanks!

Fox-- Where is the 38?  Can you please explain?  I may have missed something in the thread; I am a bit under the weather tonight. --Johann

I thought the 38 was in Pix 1

Unknown: Blowing up the picture, there is definately a 38 "written" on the wall directly to the left of the key, about the same height as the small bubble with nothing in it. It looks like there is a another number right next to it, but it's hard to see. Could be 84. what's hanging off the imp's foot near the bottom? wilhouse see my earlier post. it is definately this image. wilhouse

Johann, it is almost impossible to see unless you know what you are looking for.  I would have missed it completely had it not been for loph's post.  look at the bubble with the flower in it...now, do you see the crack-in-the-wall/line curving down appx 45 degrees under the hanging key?  The 3 of 38 is slightly above the line underneath the knights(?) downpointing thumb. falcon - "a" 38 seems to also appear in P1.  geez, how many 38's are we going to find  ::)  what else could a 38 be?  a street name, lat/long, a gun, etc...the possibilities are endless.

I can see it!  I can see it, George! (OK, a lame Steinbeck reference) Thank you for the walk-through, Fox. It would be nice to see all the other little lines in that area of the pic. --Johann

Loph --  That 38 was a great pull!  Can I ask, did you use some sort of image manipulation with that (i.e. Photoshop) or did you originally see it in the picture and then simply outline what you saw? In my book there appears to be something hidden near the bottom of the stone base supporting the armor and pedestal.  To me, it looks like a thin rectangular shape with either letters or some shapes and it appears to be somewhat off-center.  It is SO subtle, that it may just be a printing imperfection or scratches on my page.  But the bottom of the rectangle seems very clear and very straight. I haven't had any luck scanning this section in high resolution or applying any Photoshop magic to the picture. Does anybody see this? >>>Dan

Dan, can you be more specific? I found a great way to look for stuff in the picture is to do a negative on it.  check this out: hxxp://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/arm ... ing/files/ wilhouse ps - a little credit here, I did find the 38 first...

Wilhouse -- Grand kudos to you on your most impressive find.  I bow to the voodoo nature that I see within you.  Seriously, I'm sorry that I didn't read closely enough to see that you had originally posted this idea.  Great job! I checked out your negative and I had tried that method as well, although you have a much better resolution.  Let me see if I can get you to see what may actually not be there: Starting from the bottom of the page, you have the rectangular stone pillar that rises up and supports the cylindrical pedestal and armor. Directly to the left of the pillar, there are two stones in the floor that look like they form an "H" shape.  Move horizontally from the H's middle onto the pillar.  At approximately that height, I "see" a rectangular shape with some sort of writing inside of it.  The bottom line is well defined and appears very straight.  There is a suggestion of two, short vertical end lines and the top horizontal line but I cannot say whether they are defined, or if my mind is filling those details in and giving shape to this object.  Inside is what I can only described as writing.  I can look close enough to make out a few letters, but again, that could be my imagination.  It appears to start with a T or J. I had never noticed this object until today when I was outside in the sunlight and could see it somewhat.  The shape and the "letters" make me think of a name-card on the wall of someone's cubicle -- at least the shape is similar. As is often the case, now that I have noticed this, I simply cannot "unsee" it.  The image does not clearly show up in the negative, but I am not sure if the contrast is great enough. Take a look at your book and let me know if you agree that there is something there.  I may be headed for a rubber room...

first off, it was Wilhouse who found the 38.  i just outlined it since it was a weird thing in the wall.  but no one else is talking about what i think may be a bigger find.  actually save the outline i did to your harddrive and zoom in on the two "faces" near the bottom of the page.  i outlined the cross for reference, but what in the world is that flying creature thing??  is it a devil??  a unicorn?? i have no idea at all.  and then theres the face thing coming out of the pillar.  and i did use photoshop to outline these things.  just zoomed in, created a new layer, and worked my magic.  and as for the hands showing a 9 and a 3.  i suppose i can see that.  but i think if it is there, then its just another confirmer for Boston, since US 93 runs straight thru downtown boston, right next to the fleet center, which would have been the boston gardens in 1982, and also closer to 93 i might add.  so anyway, i think i might be done with this one for a while, my friend is done with his internship in 2 weeks, so he'll be gone, and no other real reason to go to Boston.  the good news is, ive got a ton of friends who live in NYC, so guess its time to get to work on Pic 12............

here I am in Minneapolis MN, and in the sculpture garden outside of town is a sculpture called the spoon bridge hxxp://www.zvan.net/photogs/assignspoonbridge.html is this a common sculpure? This one was placed in minneapolis in 1988 but I don't know when it was created or where it was before that.

Here's a link to the artists' webpage: hxxp://www.oldenburgvanbruggen.com/

the sculpture is dated 88 so it couldn't possibly be involved in the hunt. too bad

In the earlier part of this thread, you'll see a thorough discussion of Minneapolis, and then a realization that the spoon sculpture came AFTER the book.

True my ppint was its not a unique image the sculpture here in Minneapolis and the image in the painting my question originally was are there other instances of this image around? Then I got caught up in the dates of the one here I new it was installed in 88 but that didn't necessarily mean that is when it was created -turns out it was though.

maybe we should try to contact the artist and see if there was possibly another similar sculpture that inspired his creation.  It sure does look too close to the spoon in P3 to be mere coincidence.

hey guys, i had read on here somewhere that a few of you contacted Byron Priess and he had confirmed locations for you, i reemmber Huston being one of them.  Well i emailed hgim and asked if Boston contained a casque, and he wouldnt confirm anything.  he said:  "no.i cannot confirm anything. i can only reply to pictures of the casques."  so did he really confirm to you that there is one in Huston? because if he did, then thats pretty crappy that he wont confirm or deny to me that there is one in Boston. let me know

loph, I think, and this is only my opinion, that we burnt BP out with questions. This is the second to last email I got from him: "there is a treasure in houston. that's all i can tell you ." This is the last email I received from him: "really, i don't think i can answer any more questions. ." wilhouse

yah, sounds like we might have burned him out.

I have to agree here also.  Out of the kindness of his heart, he confirmed for us a couple of city-locations.  And I thank you Mr. P for those.  At the rate we were going with questions, we might as well have asked him "Can you hold my hand, lead me to a casque (I have no idea where it is) and dig it up for me as I sip a lemonade." One thing I would like to ask him, but am now quite leary, is if he could only garauntee that all of the sites (no matter where they are) are still accessable and not removed or covered over with renovations.  Maybe he will lurk on this board and answer this query in time.

but what would you do if his answer to your question was he couldn't guarantee that because he knew there have been changes.... Would you give up  the entire hunt? or expect him to tell you which are missing? Then what happens if one of these missing casques actually turns up?.... no, half the fun of this is not knowing...

oh NO, i definitely would not give up the hunt.  I'm just speculating here....let's say a casque's site (in Detroit..made up locale, just a big city) has since been covered over by a highway, skyscraper, etc..and has no possible way of being retrieved..period!  If this were the case, wouldnt it be nice to know the Detroit P/V so that those could be crossed off the list?  It sure would aide in finding the rest & I personally think old BP is getting a kick out of the renewed interest. Of course, that's just my opinion......

I was close to saying that the round object above right wrist was not a mace because I thought maces had sharper points for more damage.  That was until I found this hxxp://www.bimmini.com/studios/mace.jpgmaybe this type of mace was used more to pummel...

Unknown: just speculating here....let's say a casque's site (in Detroit..made up locale, just a big city) has since been covered over by a highway, skyscraper, etc..and has no possible way of being retrieved..period! But how do you (or Brian) know that the guy running the first bulldozer through the site popped up this cute little pottery thing in a plastic box, took it home and its sitting on his mantlepiece. he has no clue what it is... but BP announces the detroit casque can never be found and you are able to eliminate a verse and picture - making it easier to find other casques... every succsessful hunt will eliminate possibilities of verses and pictures making the other hunts easier and easier... meanwhile the bulldozer operator reads about the "impossible" quest in the paper... he turns up to get his jewel... will BP give it to him? BP isn't ever going to "eliminate" a casque, I seriously doubt he actually keeps tabs on them.  The rules have been posted, if you can't get to a casque, and send BP the exact location you still get the gem, but not the casque. The only way to eliminate the casque is to claim the jewel.

As well as being a silversmith, was Paul Revere ever a currier (one who works with leathers)?  If so, another definition of a mace: " A knobbed mallet used by curriers in dressing leather to make it supple."  Could the red sections of whatever in the P be strips of leather?

just as a word to the discussion, remember that I did ask him if he knew if the CLUES were still there, and he gave the indecipherable answer '"after 22 years, all I can say is l". I would assume the answer for the casques would be similar, if less obtuse. wilhouse

According to the book, it would be possible to claim a jewel without sending in the key.  On the treasure claim form, there's a box for "I've determined the location of a treasure but am unable to explore it".  You  just don't get to keep the casque.  So, even if it is underneath a highway, if you're *sure* of a really specific solution, you can send it in.

I stand corrected, thank you falcon & laco.  In one of my earliest emails w/ BP, he stated that he has poloroid pictures of the locations where the casques are located.  You guys are right, if I were to tell exactly where the casque is (even if it is now under a skyscraper) the jewel would be mine. falcon, great story of Mr. Bulldozer.  I know I would be p.o.'d if I ran across an article, looked at my cute casque atop my mantle and was told...."Sorry, that casque was declared unobtainable." In that case.....let the hunt continue......

Just some up close shots of things originally posted by johaan: This has been suggested to maybe be a reference to the Boston Celtics basketball team. I'm thinking more along the lines of a clover field maybe? What is that behind the key? pulling it back into the wall?  ???

Also just an observation, but this P is the only one whose contents break the frame (the knights right hand)  😮 who knows...

Unknown: What is that behind the key? pulling it back into the wall? I just see another key, a small one, like a luggage key, or a key to a diary.

just to keep stirring the pot. as I said before the arch looks like an arch on the brooklyn bridge the mace looks like the star projector from the planetarium near central park but the large bell on the right looks like the bell on the statue in herald square...

Just an idea to link this P to a V - the knight's fingers could be signing out a '19' and a '13' to give '1913' reading left to right.  This is the same as the only year specified in any of the verses - V6.  Also, the line 'between two arms extended' seems to match with this P.

Hey there everybody. Look at the base of the bottom right stone that makes the base of the window. It does not match the same section on the left side, in fact it actually looks like the State of Pennsylvania, but upside-down (hold a map up to it if you doubt me, though the bottom part is really dark so it may be hard to see) it even has the little angled jut off the top, but in the floor like a crack Also check my reply on image six also In the Cleveland one, there was a hidden image of the state it was in, the same should be true for the first one that was found also and the rest as well(in my opinion), the trouble is finding it I have yet to read any of the verses, i'm just going on the pictures themselves, cuz they should be able to give the State the key's in (at the very least) what do you all think?

in my humble opinion, the fingers are making a 9 and a 1, signifying state road 91, that splits boston in half, sort of like the picture has two halves that should look symmetric, but arent.  i scoured all of Boston and couldnt come up with anything, but as i found out this weekend in Chicago, these things are tucked away into places that are not out in the open type places.  true, the chicago one was in a HUGE park, but the actual site where it was buried is kind of secluded, and im willing to bet, rarely has people around it.  and by the looks of the pics from Cleveland, the casque was found behind the wall, a place that im sure not too many people actually look at or walk around.

Although I'm not yet convinced this picture signifies Boston, the hook hanging off the right arm looks a lot like Cape Cod.  Does anyone see anything else nearby to indicate a Massachusetts map outline?

I did a web search for pea spoon this one thing I found: "Pea spoons are quite rare. They are usually designed with long handles and shallow, pierced circular bowls.  A wonderful aesthetic design of swirls, a single flower and a paisley device at the top decorates the front of this handle.  The great bowl is pierced to resemble a large flower in bloom. The back of the handle is plain with a classic tip at the top above an engraved 'ALS' monogram. This lovely server is stamped on the back with Davis & Galt's trademark along with the great Boston retailer 'BIGELOW, KENNARD & CO/ STERLING'. It measures 9.25 inches long, weighs 2.55 troy ounces and is in very good condition with very light wear to the handle." hxxp://www.spencermarks.com/html/k310.html hmmmmmmm.........

The symbol on the armors right side(our left) looks to me like the cross used by the knights templar. Another thing that suprized me is that I saw no mention to the fact that the face of the armor is not human, but looks more like that of a bull, sugesting a minatour? I am interested if any one has thoughts on the symbol on the left shoulder(our right) which also apears as a clasp? on his chest. As a final thought my feeling is this is the canadian treasure. though I am lacking confirmers as of yet, it is just a gut instinct. The only thing I have so far to suggest this may be true is that this image is the only one to extend outside its borders. intersting eh? 1 treasure outside the U.S. 1 image outside its borders?

the face in the armor isnt a bull, its a horse.  look at the ears and the nose, its a dead give away.  ive known it for a while, i just cant figure out what it means.  maybe just another reference to Paul Reveres ride.

or a nag's head as in Nags Head, NC (between Wright Bros. Nat. Mem. and Roanoke Island)? the outline of Roanoke, the red flower-petals (as a potential link to the Elizabethan Gardens), and the military theme (as a potential link to Fort Raleigh) also suggest a match to Verse 11

any one have any thoughts on a possible templar connection? the knights templar used a equal sided cross, very similar to the one on the armor. the armor itself is out streched in the shape of a christian cross. And following my canadian guess I find it interesting that the knights templar where comprised of mostly brits and the french, the two major imigrants of canada.

Doesn't it look like the overhead view of an airplane?  Does this suggest NC?

Just stirring the pot some more, and maybe some of this has come up in the past, but.... - If he had semaphore flags in his hands, he'd be making the letter "R". - Maybe he's supposed to look like the letter "T" -- Boston T Party?........ - Why's he not centered on the window?  If you were the artist composing this picture, wouldn't your natural inclination be to center him up?  He obviously isn't, so does this mean anything? Pine Tree

Unknown: The symbol on the armors right side(our left) looks to me like the cross used by the knights templar. It's also a symbol for Earth: hxxp://symbols.com/encyclopedia/29/291.html The symbol on the left shoulder, and in the center of the chest, looks like the symbol for a bridge: hxxp://symbols.com/encyclopedia/10/1015.html This one's more of a stretch... out the window, above and to the left of the head, the blue circle with the bright spot in the center is the symbol for the Sun: hxxp://symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/268.html I have no idea what these mean in the context of the treasure hunt though. - Jambone

with the recent possible linking of this P with the Boston V, I thought maybe I would bring this thread up. One possible site being tossed around is the Back Bay Fens.  Take a look at this church across the street from the park. hxxp://www.dur.ac.uk/s.j.white/images/bos_bells.jpgI found the "dangling bells" somewhat interesting....like our knights dangling bells.

A couple of images for consideration. These are of Marsh Plaza, a part of Boston University.  It sits along the Charles River on Commonwealth Ave. In this photo notice the arches to the left and right.  Also notice the large symbol in the center of the plaza. In the center of the large symbol is this symbol. Now the bad news -- these symbols MAY have been added during a restoration project in 1999.  I'm checking.

Now, that's amusing.  I went to B.U. Law School, and walked through Marsh Plaza nearly every day!  I seem to remember those symbols being there when I was there, which was 1984-87, but I am not 100% certain. BTW, I searched all around the Fenway/Kenmore Square area (where I lived) for anything which may have been connected with The Secret, and did not notice anything.

One more -- This is "The Truth Window" at Marsh Chapel (in the plaza). The text displayed?  "And the truth shall make you free."

Now that is quite interesting indeed. "In truth, be free."

Here is a slightly different angle of Marsh Plaza: hxxp://ambutologist.tripod.com/redskyredplaza.JPG notice the water in the background...."Face the water" is that a small park between the church and the water?...accesable to BP and his shovel? the statue out front is called "Free at last" but I have no idea how long it has been there. and what is the Coliseum looking bldg across the water?

ah shucks...it is the DeWolfe Boathouse on the Cambridge side of the Charles and it came around long after BP did his thing.  Hoping it was our coliseum..oh well

Well Fox, since you brought up the coliseum, the only place that REALLY looks like a coliseum is Harvard Stadium.  Check it out:  hxxp://www.216design.com/lab/harvard/harvard.html  But it is located so far away from where we are snooping around, it doesn't seem to fit. ABQRAM

2 quick notes just looking at the pic...... the letters the figure forms are o, and q.......(in asl) why does the face for the armor look like it fits a lion, tiger or some other animal instead of a human......just jumped out there..... it so looks like boston to me, (the baseball symbol is there, which could mean red sox...like 29 other cities.....but I remember the chicago pic had a chicago bears symbol in it...... anyway...im ramble on more later....

Mrshamrock:  where do you see the baseball symbol?

Frishkie, look at the circle on the righthand shoulder.  It's got two lines in it and sort of looks like a baseball. Can someone who has the book tell me anything about the weird little patch on the right side of the picture near the base of the columns (under and to the right of the hanging spoon)?  What is that thing?  Does it say something in the patch?  The scan I have isn't quite sharp enough.

I have the book, and it is still not clear what that thing is.  It appears to be a tag tied to the end of the pea spoon.  There is a tiny hole at the top of the item that suggests it is tied to the spoon, though no discernable line.  If you look REALLY hard, there appears to be the letter "E".  It kinda reminded me of a potato chip. ABQRAM

I believe it has been suggested that it is a teabag.

a teabag....or simply the clacker/clanger/dangly thing-a-ma-jig inside of a bell perhaps?

I took another close look and it looks to be a tag with the initials "L L L" in it.  Could it be the illustrator's initials. ABQRAM

I dont think so ABQ....the illustrator for all of these P's is JJP or John Jude Palencar.

Alright, I don't like this, but here goes... Ya'll know I think that Image 11 is Boston, and that Image 3 is in the Roanoke/Kill Devil Hill area, but the Horace Mann statue shown on this link (real link over on page 6 of Verse 3)here: hxxp://www.slivka.com/Trips/MaineBoston ... g_1007.jpg ...got me to thinking.  It's Horace Mann on a square-topped pedestal.  Image 3 has been interpreted as a horse-man on a similar square-topped pedestal. Aargh...... Pine

I was looking through some symbol dictionaries today (for Image 1) and I saw one that pertained to this image. Jambone posted a couple symbols earlier, but I haven't seen this one listed yet: 26:29 · An ella cross or elf cross from Scania, Sweden. Elf crosses were carved or drawn on walls, household appliances, and so on, as a protection against trolls and evil magic. In the Icelandic myths the elfs were supernatural beings, not of the same dignity as the gods, but almost. The elfs were vindictive, beautyloving hunters and forest dwellers. The sign [five-pointed star], too, was sometimes called elf cross.

dont have my book with me but are the fair people from the tale, which are associated with this P, from Scandanavia?  Maybe just a confirmer of sorts.

Just the "Viking craftsmen Elves" who built the casques and could be, hence, associated with any picture/treasure.

I am utterly convinced this P belongs with V11. Besides the Elizabethan armor theme, V11 makes reference to "To the land near the window." Roanoke Island is, as others have pointed out, right by the window.

Hello All! I just picked up the book last week and have been drawn to Image 3. I live south of Chicago...so naturally I went for the image that was most pleasing to the eye. I have been trolling the boards for a few days...but have not been able to read everything..so please bare with ANOTHER noob! I traced the lines on the wall and floor of image 3 to an overhead projecter film. I coincidentally had google maps up of the greater Boston area. I have no map frag matches but it got me thinking... Anyone recognize the markings as land features? The marking to the right of the suit, on the wall, look to easily be rural highways, and the markings on the floor could be very well be airport runways or suburban road systems. ...just a synaptic jump...

Has anyone else noticed these red marks on the armor's pectoral? It isn't a misprint, since it is visible on the on-line hi-res images and in my book: Also, the stylized cross-in-circle mark on the other breastplate could represent The Mount, located in the Elizabethan Gardens on Roanoke. The path layout is similar. As for the thing dangling off the armor's right wrist (our left), one of the very few English artifacts recovered at Fort Raleigh was an iron scythe, currently on display in the Visitor's Center. Fort Raleigh wasn't exactly the rich haul that Jamestown was.

Regarding the three bells suspended from the armor, Albert Quintin "Skipper" Bell was the architect who designed the Waterside Theatre at Roanoke, where The Lost Colony is performed. Or, the 3 bells and 2 keys may form part of a rebus, along the lines of Mill + Walk + Key.

Below is what I think the shredded red material is supposed to represent. It looks similar to "paned slops," which would have been worn by Elizabethan noblemen. If you use Google images to search for "paned slops" you can see many examples. During a recent trip to see fellow treasure-hunters Voltaire and czg, we shared photographs from our recent trips to Roanoke and San Francisco. I was hoping they would spot something I had missed (and vice versa), and czg did not disappoint. Below are two images, the paned slops and a random piece of driftwood I thought looked interesting enough to photograph. At the time, I did not connect the driftwood to The Secret , but czg pointed out a suspicious resemblance between the driftwood and the slops. The more I look at it, the more I can see it. Driftwood, if it began life as a sufficiently dense wood (this one looks like cypress to me), can hang around for decades, slowly bleaching in the sun. This beach is on the north side of the island, one of the leeward sides, so strong storms would not necessarily sweep it back out to sea from its perch on the beach. Roanoke is inside the barrier islands, so it is normally spared strong waves. On the day I visited, Roanoke Sound was as calm as a puddle. This particular stretch isn't exactly thick with tourists at any time of the year, and driftwood is everywhere. I photographed this piece because it was the most striking on that stretch of beach. Connections to Verse 11? You bet! First, Verse 11 explicitly mentions driftwood . I don't know why it would be last touched , but all trees are first seen standing before they fall. Think about it. And then think how easy it would have been to dig a 3-foot-deep hole in the soft sand of Roanoke Island, on the north side of a distinctive piece of driftwood...

Interesting tie ins of the driftwood and the text....but why P3?  I think it is a very long shot that even if the maroon whatever did indeed represent slops, linking them to driftwood is just too far out there.  Maybe it is just me, who knows.  Just think that is just trying to make something that doesnt fit fit. "last touched" could mean the tree or driftward farthest from the water or furthest inshore.  That would make them last touched by water as the tide rolled in and out.

Unknown: I think it is a very long shot that even if the maroon whatever did indeed represent slops, linking them to driftwood is just too far out there. I hear you, Fox, but two things. First, this is the biggest, prettiest piece of driftwood on the beach. Second, the driftwood doesn't remind me of a pair of slops per se, but the way the roots stick out and criss-cross remind me strongly of the outline of the shreds and tatters in P3.

Re: the maroon tatters (or whatever they are) - I can't remember if I saw this mentioned before or if it was just an idea out of the blue.  Take a chrysanthemum and shove something hollow on top of it - pvc pipe, model of armor, etc.  Seems like the petals would splay down and around.  Don't have a chrysanthemum handy or a piece of pvc, but it might look like the maroon parts of the image.  The blackened/shadow part of the image?  Maybe not. Pic of a whole chrysanthemum at our favorite place:

I've spent hours reading through posts about the verses and images.... I did come up with a few possibilities only to find they'd already been mentioned LOL However, I remember someone suggesting the dig to be under the gate to the beach.... The base in P3, the sphere and the square base resembles the gate posts hxxp://www.elizabethangardens.org/images/tour16.jpg Perhaps After circle and square ? And if you're facing north, which I'm gathering from the pics that would be towards the water the gate is last touched, and first seen as you approach....wouldn't you say?

I agree that the gate could be that which is last touched or first seen standing . But the gate doesn't resemble the pic to me: hxxp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/12.jpg . Hey, mysscryss, if you're in NC, perhaps we can collaborate on a visit to Roanoke sometime. My shovel is *still* in my trunk.

I am in NC, I'm in Wilmington! And I think it does maybe not perfectly...but it has the sphere and then the square trunk. I feel like after seeing how the location matched the pic for the Cleveland find that there should be something specific in this image to show us where to go

forest_blight wrote:: But the gate doesn't resemble the pic to me: hxxp://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/12.jpg . The gate really doesnt but that orangish fleshy looking object on right side of pic sure looks familiar.

I've been putting off posting these ideas because I wanted to tie them in better.  But, I think I better post them before I lose them... The red-strap-thingies are somewhat similar to the piers in Boston harbor.  See this link for a pic: hxxp://maps.google.com/maps?q=boston,+m ... 3065&hl=en . The pedestal is pretty similar to the ones at the entrance to the Boston Public Garden: hxxp://nanosft.com/freedom/common/bgent1.jpg . The large bubble, with the flower in it, being supported by the long skinny arms looks kinda like a light post on the bridge at Boston Public Garden: hxxp://nanosft.com/freedom/common/bgbridge.jpg.  Wish I had a better pic to show this, but in Image 3, the bubbles look like a perspective of the light posts on the bridge. I think at best these are merely suggestive.  Certainly not definitive.  Perhaps someone who is familiar with that area could support, or shoot down, these ideas?

jambone, I really like your BPP tie in with this pic.  The lamps on the bridge do fall in line perspectively with the bubbles.  Is that the GW statue in the background? Did you know that that bridge is the worlds smallest suspension bridge? Take a look at these lamps as well....they also look bubble-like with the clear glass..and these things are all over the park. hxxp://cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Orig ... 0_6688.jpg or hxxp://web.mit.edu/pgibbs/www/images/Ap ... C02164.JPG almost looks like a flower inside of it. Large image wont load but look here: hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... en%26lr%3D "back to the water" = there is the large pond/lake in the middle of the park...also this: hxxp://www.migulski.com/Boston-Park.jpg this statue has a nice BELL shaped pedastal =?= the hanging bells hxxp://www.hodgman.org/travel/genealogy ... verett.jpg cool aerial: hxxp://www.backbaypress.com/images/aerial-land-07.jpg simple map: hxxp://pages.emerson.edu/Courses/Archiv ... apHand.gif I really do like this as a possible match.  Some time back we found ourselves in the Back Bay Fens area and low and behold.....we are back in the Back Bay.  Definitely deserves looking into

Preiss had certain "signposts" that he appeared to like to use.  I believe ornate or specific lights are one of them. He used them in Chicago and Houston and it appears here too. wilhouse

Don't think anyone has mentioned this yet but the right hand fingers clearly show a 79. Only remote places in NY, and some in Pennsylvania, Virginia, NC  and SC have 79 as long. and lats. Here's something interesting. Roanoke Virginia is 37 and 79.  Niagara Falls NY is 43 and 79. again, just in case pic dissapears: hxxp://www.freewebs.com/boogieman13/page5.htm Found another tidbit: hxxp://www.freewebs.com/boogieman13/page4.htm If you look at the 4, it really does break at the two top lines of the #4 and the 3 below it is very obvious. Niagara Falls here we come.  Anyone agree?

hxxp://www.teslasociety.com/teslamon.gif Interesting and pretty close. Notice those little bells hanging from his robe? hxxp://bonvoyage.free.fr/pgpresent/niagara/niag19.jpg What's behind the Indian? hxxp://salmonriver.com/04niagara06.jpg Look at the flowers; hxxp://www.estrellita62.de/indianer-bro ... -falls.jpg

This is the front of a B-25 Mitchell bomber: hxxp://mitzel.us/Photo/B25.jpg . To me, the face in image 3 looks like the front of an airplane, especially the eyes/windows.  The "snout" looks quite a bit like the front bubble from the B-25, but the proportions with the windows are off.  It may not be a B-25, but if I'm right, it'll be a plane from the 1930's or 1940's.  The windshield of a B-17 looks like a decent match.

did anyone notice the outline of Utah in the floor on the lower right side?? not sure if it means anything...

I don't see Utah, but I do see, on an ariel shot of Niagara, what I think is Goat island and it looks like the funny fish shape just above the 43 in my post above. hxxp://www.niagarafallslive.com/Attract ... _Falls.htm I need help.  Even if the help knocks Niagara out of the box.  But I have a gut feeling about this.  LOL I saw that posted somewhere here before. Amazed if anyone here still has a gut, or a feeling.

Sorry, I don't see that "funny fish shape" being a match with Goat Island at Niagara Falls.  They just aren't the same shape. On another note, assuming that there is a 43 there (and I can see it), and assuming that a 79 can be found on the right hand (I can see that too), Toronto is a great fit for lattitude 43 longitude 79.  Looks like there are a TON of parks there.

Wasn't thinking of Canada.  Good call.  I do have relatives in Ontario, just in case we need them.

I am in buffalo... so IF we can get more specific...I can check out niagara falls anytime...though it is starting to snow today....

the utah image i am seeing is the central floor tile on the lower right side of the pic. it is the largest floor tile on that side and is shaped exactly like utah ... blow up the pic and you will see it... the tile has a curved line going thru the upper right corner of it to create the utah shape... might be a coincidence..but you never know....

hxxp://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/11/115.html This symbol appears on the right side of the face, just under the nostrils.  When you read what it means, it sounds a little like Niagara. Maid of the Mist? hxxp://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/08/0813.html This is the so-called baseball symbol on the images right shoulder. I'm thinking split; US-Canadian border. Starting to feel retarded, but some of these symbols look interesting. There could literally be hundreds of these symbols hidden throughout the 12 images. Note the symbol that is to the left side (our left) of the face under the nostrils. Or the circle with the cross. hxxp://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/index.html

For what it's worth: The first thing I thought when I saw the Mace on the right arm was "Mace." And the next thing I thought was "Anti-Ship Mine." So I did just a cursory search for a few webpages/screenshots for ya'll to check out. The type of mine the image evoked is apparently referred to as a "Moored Contact Mine" or "Floating Contact Mine" There are a few images of the like here: hxxp://www.royal-navy.mod.uk/static/pages/3895.html , here: hxxp://www.regiamarina.net/arsenals/mines/mines_us.htm , and of course here: hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Naval_mine This style of mine seems to have been in wide use in WWI and WWII, particularly in the defense of ports, which is one possible connection; might Philadelphia or Boston (or other port cities) have been defended by mines at some point, and now have one on display somewhere? Perhaps at some sort of park or museum, of WWI/WWII or Naval History especially? Edit: Forgot to include this earlier, but that also opens up possibilities for any sort of "Mine" reference as well.

Anyone remember Ziggy? He's a figure from the funny papers from the 70's and 80's.  He's in the image right below the key on our left side. Big round head and big nose.  Looks like he's sleeping. Here's a pictue: hxxp://www.comcast.net/providers/uClick ... /ziggy.gif Did a search for Ziggy in Niagara Falls, came up with Ziggy's Restaurant on the Canadian side. ps: bought a video from History Channel on Niagara Falls, the main gist, how man was afraid of nature and sought to control it.  Sound familiar.  If it's not image 3, it has to be one of them.

Can't find anything on maces in Niagara, but found this building; hxxp://ah.bfn.org/a/nf/united/ext/ On this building is this: hxxp://ah.bfn.org/a/nf/united/ext/source/10.html Notice the circle with the cross.  Don't know if it connects yet. There's a whole lotta stuff here. again, humor me and let me know if anyone sees anything else here. edit: geez, after scrolling down on the first link above, noticed the address, 222 First St.  Crazy.

Okay, nobody wants to play with this one.  Check this out anyway.  Part of the Niagara Parks Heritage Trail. hxxp://www.adventurepluspublishing.com/ ... 20carn.jpg It's also on this page if you scroll down: hxxp://www.adventurepluspublishing.com/ ... ites_3.htm Notice the cross at the bottom of the monument.  Etched in stone just like the cross on the bottom left of image 3.

the cross etched in stone is quite interesting indeed. nice find

That monument is at the Southern Terminus of the Bruce Trail in Ontario where Sir Isaac Brock died fighting the US in 1812.  There is another one at the northern terminus that's almost identical  but does not have the cross. edit Cairn: a mountain of stone erected as a memorial or monument. Could image 3 be a cairn?

OK, been a couple months for this thread but came acroos something interesting in Fort Raliegh, Anyone notice the painting at the Visitor's Center?  Check out the armor! Schroll down.  Need a better pic, I think. hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... D%26sa%3DN

Just an observation regarding the object attached to( or seen directly below the spoon handle) in the lower right quadrant of image 3 that has been so difficult to identify:   The object is pear shaped, and flat in appearance. It strongly suggests to me a pear pad, which is the pad of the prickly pear cactus, which is commonly found in the coastal regions of North Carolina. hxxp://www.desertusa.com/magdec97/eating/nopales.html It is intresting to note that there is a residential street directly opposite the visitors center within the Fort Raleigh National Historic site called Pear Pad Road. hxxp://www.mapquest.com/maps/map.adp?fo ... %2bpPZg%3d The road ends in a cul-de-sac near Roanoke Sound.  To be sure, the road has many prickly pear cactus plants growing wild  along its length, hence the name of the road. The object in image 3 appears to be a pear pad from the prickly pear cactus plant, albeit shorn of needles.   If it is in fact a pear pad,clues to the location of the casque might be located somewhere along the length of Pear Pad Road.

Just some confirmers for Roanoke (latitude 36, longitude -75):

Today I e-mailed a couple of authorities on American Sign Language, saying, "In the attached image, does it appear to you that the suit of armor is expressing something in sign language?" One replied almost immediately with: Not really. Although it somewhat reminds me of the Abraham Lincoln Memorial (!!!). Some people say that in that statue he is holding his hands in the form of the two fingerspelled letters "A" and "L" (for Abe Lincoln). Your drawing sort of looks like this too: the left handle resembles an A, and the right an L (but it is only a remote resemblance). For comparison:

Here's another # to throw at ya FB.  Look at the center image and click. hxxp://www.freewebs.com/patcash/image6.htm With regard to your post above, I still see a 79 in the right hand.  It just won't go away.

I see what you're saying about the 79, boog, but it's a real stretch. To address your other point... There's definitely something there, but given that digits can be reversed and in any order, it could be 67, 76, 23, 32, 35, 36, 39, 53, 63, or 93.

I want to offer up this image as linking to Boston (can not see the image by the window as others do) -two arms (a prominent feature) -the red skirt -the pea spoon -the general bell tower design -and the photo below of the pedistal Paul Revere Mall (next to the old North Church) and also next to Paul Revere's House (feel at home)

Trohn wrote:: -two arms (a prominent feature) Ok, a nice tie in with George III and Boston for this P.  Many portraits of George III show him as so.....w/ the crest of the Order of the Garter Star emblazoned on his breast. confused trohn, how do 2 arms tie into the Boston idea.

"Two arms, two arms, the Brisitsh are coming." Paul Revere Mall is all bricks, no nice green grass to defile. The verse on "with metal walls" always seemed redundant to me, until I saw where "Old Ironside" has been parked.

AmeliaElf and I were in Boston last year and spent a considerable amount of time looking for clues in the city. One of the places we checked out extensively was the Paul Revere Mall, as it somewhat resembles a "coliseum"... unfortunately, nothing in the surroundings seemed to match the picture. I have pictures of the Mall and other places in the North End somewhere, and I'll try to post them.

If you find post your pictures, please indicate if you looked at "Training Field Park". Located between USS Constitution Museum and Bunker Hill Cemetary, across the street from a baseball field. From the satellite image, it looks vaguely similar to the middle plate in the suit of armor. There is a single monument in the center, if what, I do not know. Used to be space owned by MIT I think. I do not knowwhere the Citgo sign sits in relation to the park.

Trohn wrote:: "Two arms, two arms, the Brisitsh are coming." ahhh, very nice.  That is just like what BP would do.

Just an observation.  I think I see shovels in theses two images.  Check you own images.

Has anyone here ever bothered to look up the word casque ? Think you know what it means? Go look it up in your dictionary, then look at Image 3, then look up the word coincidence and ponder its applicability...

hmmmm, interesting.  & I always assumed......... pondering......

fox wrote:: hmmmm, interesting.  & I always assumed......... pondering...... Coincidence....hmmm   The helmet?  Coinciding or accidental?

I spent a few hours on this image today, assuming it is related to NC, specifically Roanoke Island, or Kill Devil Hill.  Apart from the outline of Roanoke Island to the right of the window, I there don't appear to be any other definite ties, which is odd considering how many details this image contains.  Frustrating. I did find this one sculpture in the Elizabethan Gardens that is a decent match for the cross/circle logo on the armor.  It's funny, what struck me first about the sculpture was the bell shape at its base.  But, that bell doesn't match the bells in image 3. I also found this picture of Sir Walter Raleigh.  I thought that his attire seemed to match the armor fairly well.  Note the chest area, the upper arms, and the elbows:

Very frustrating Indeed.  Even though V11 can just about lead you to the beach near Fort Raleigh and the Elizabethian Gardens, there are (at least none that I can find) no discernable matches between Image 3 and any physical objects within the area that can lead you to a specific dig site.   I have studied the relationship between V11 and Image 3 extensively, and have explored the possibility that perhaps the line in V11, "Ride the Man of Oz," does not necessarily refer to the Washington Baum Bridge connecting the Outer Banks to Roanoke Island, but perhaps, for instance, the entrance to the Jockey Ridge State Park.This State Park and natural wonder was saved from the Bulldozers in 1973 by Carolista Baum.  The Road leading into the park is called West Carolista Drive in her honor.  There are many paths (that beckon) to mica and drifwood within the park, and once on the beach you could look north at the wing, which is just about 3 miles distant. Just a thought, but perhaps there are solid links to Image 3 in area of Jockey ridge State Park. hxxp://www.cobx.com/ridge.htm

The keys in the verse that link to the Fort area are: "white is in color" "past circle and square" "in july and august a path" This last one is specfic to the play which until only recently started doing June ones.

Kato wrote:: Just a thought, but perhaps there are solid links to Image 3 in area of Jockey ridge State Park. I looked at Jockey Ridge on flickr and webshots and didn't really see anything except sand and dunes.  There were a couple of pictures of a big faux sand castle for kids, but I still didn't see anything to tie it to image 3.  Not ruling it out, I just didn't find any matches.

Trohn - I think it far more likely that the July/August reference is to the first line of the historic marker at the head of the trail at Ft. Raleigh.

Jambone wrote:: Apart from the outline of Roanoke Island to the right of the window, I there don't appear to be any other definite ties, which is odd considering how many details this image contains. Kato wrote:: Even though V11 can just about lead you to the beach near Fort Raleigh and the Elizabethian Gardens, there are (at least none that I can find) no discernable matches between Image 3 and any physical objects within the area that can lead you to a specific dig site. Kato wrote:: This State Park and natural wonder was saved from the Bulldozers in 1973 by Carolista Baum. Am I the only one who sees this? It's from a bench in the Elizabethan Gardens. And not a small detail, either - it's the primary image. That might work, but Carolista Baum is a woman, not a man. And "ride" implies a vehicle or road of some sort named for Baum (not Carolista), like the bridge or the ferry (both named Baum).

I think that is a good possibility, but imho, it's not a "definite" like the wall, columns, and fountain in the Cleveland pic, or the tower, fence post, and arch in the Chicago pic.  I guess I feel that way because the circle/cross figure is pretty common and we could probably find several matches for it.  If we've narrowed down the casque location to being near the bench in the Elizabethan Gardens or the theatre, why can't we make more connections with image 3?  What are we missing?

There is a mile or so trail called "The Freedom Trail" that the freed slaves took to The Freedom Colony during the civil war. It starts somwhere near the Fort and ends somewhere near Roanoke Sound.  It is a self guided tour. It is noted that there are markers and statues at the end of the trail. I can find no pictures that display this trail.  It is independent of the John Herlock trail.

Specifically because there are no obvious definitive connections between Image 3 and any physical landmarks in the area surrounding Fort Raleigh and the Elizabethian Gardens, I believe that all roads ( including Carolista Drive ) should be checked for any physical landmarks that may be represented in Image 3.   There are other streets on the Outer Banks with the Baum name: West Baum Street just south of the Wright Memorial, and Baum Bay Drive just west of it.  Also, I believe "The Man of Oz" refers to L. Frank Baum, author of the Wizard of Oz.  This has been discussed by others on the thread for V11.  Thus, it has nothing to do with gender (as with Carolista Baum) but with the name Baum itself.  Failure to explore any road named after a Baum in this general local could be a mistake.

It's tough to nail longs and lats here as well.  Too many darn #s.  The pedelstal and archway are key.  Plus the cross at the lower left.  Whoa, and the bubbles, they are in image 11 too.

Kato wrote:: Failure to explore any road named after a Baum in this general local could be a mistake. I suppose that's true. Personally, I think that whatever these signposts once held could be the key to it all: One person who might know is Ken Johns, an intern who worked on the Hariot trail in late 70's. But so many people are named Ken Johns that it will be difficult to find the right Ken Johns, short of doing a mail blitz.

This is a display of Elizabethian Armor inside the small museum within the Lindsay Warren Visitor Center at the Fort Raleigh National Historic Site. This is a close up of the Halbred within that display.  Notice the curved knife-like component on the upper edge of the weapon.  It is strikingly similar to the object under the right wrist (left side of image) upon which the skeleton key is dangling.  Although it is upside down and the perspective is different, it is nearly an identical match to the Image 3 object.  It "jumped out" at me when I saw it, and I am convinced it is part of the Image, and a solid marker for the Roanoke Casque.  Any thoughts?

bumping this thread up with all of the discussion of V11. This, I believe, was introduced long ago as possibly being the "cross" on our "knights" armor so I thought I would bump it as well. it is a stone marker memorializing the lost colony.

Bump for CK.

What does that mean---bump for CK? ck

shecrab wrote:: What does that mean---bump for CK? ck Moving an older thread up to the top of the list for easier referencing.

I think Trohn is drawing your attention to the fact that we already have a forum topic for Image 3, so there is no need to add yet another forum topic to the proliferation of forum topics. We've been trying to minimize the number of new topics to keep the forum manageable.

CK, where the heck did you find the coordinates?  I can't see them anywhere.  Again, I hope you are right on this one too.  Indiana is a lot closer to Kansas then Roanoke.

Numbers: They are in the "skirt" of the figure....turn the page upside down and look at the red part just to the right and left of the garnet. I saw the "75" on the lower right corner, and there are 5's all over the page--oddly--but as I perused this image, I found a bunch more as well.  The 41-86 is the only one that made any sense. The rest lead to places that are not likely candidates for a burial. (One in the middle of a lake). On the floor on either side of the podium there is a four on the left, a five on the right--that four could also be a 9. That coordinate leads to a place near Adirondack Park on the border of NY/Canada. The 91 on the figure's right hand (fingers) paired with the 45 on the floor leads to a very remote place near Eau Claire Wisconsin, and if you leave the page upright and use the "skirt" figures that way, you get 48 on the left side--pair that up with the floor numbers as 95 and you get Red Lake Minnesota. If you use 48 from the skirt, and look at the RIGHT side of it, you can maybe see 116 and that will lead to a "middle-of-nowhere" place somewhere near Coeur d'Alene Idaho.  There were also possibilities for the numbers 74 and 55 and 79, and even 114 made from various ways of looking at the numbers I've already mentioned. Then I used Ms Photo Editor and lightened the picture by raising the gamma--and that's when I discovered that the 41 and 86 were really 41 and 86 and the other numbers probably just tricks of the coloring or shadow. So I concentrated on those, even though they didn't look promising to me. That's when I found the "courthouse" cross--on the Rochester IN page. I also found that most of the town is undergoing serious renovation--excavation--and digging of its own. We may have truly lost this casque to progress. The roads around the town look like the cracks on the lower right side of the image, too. And on the left, down by the baseboard molding, there is a crack that looks like a cross on a hilly landscape--I'm wondering about that being near a cemetary, or near a monument. The cracks are odd. I've tried to fit something in the picture to the shape of Lake Manitou, near Rochester, but haven't had much luck. The only thing that fits (oddly enough) is that area on the armor that looks sort of like a capital E, on the figure's left breastplate. The bottom of Lake Manitou looks similiar. I don't hold much hope for it being a map match, though, but there might be other matches that aren't the lake. The lake has the biggest public park, however. Also, several of the armor's parts look like map symbols for bridges. I'm wondering about that too. I had no time last night to research any of this, so I thought I'd throw it out for others to check out. I'm not far at all from Rochester and could make a day trip any time. ck

forest_blight wrote:: I think Trohn is drawing your attention to the fact that we already have a forum topic for Image 3, so there is no need to add yet another forum topic to the proliferation of forum topics. We've been trying to minimize the number of new topics to keep the forum manageable. Oh, sorry. c

Wow, I LIVE IN EAU CLAIRE WISCONSIN!  Wouldn't that be nice!  Got some casques of my own to bury down here.  13 in total! hxxp://etrayu.tripod.com 

More on the "cemetary" idea. There is a "trail of death" in Fulton county Indiana. This begins in Twin Lakes, north of Rochester, and travels for 600+ miles through Illinois and Missouri, etc....it's a trail that was traveled by Potawatamie Indian Tribes when they were being "relocated" (i.e., removed) by the US Governement in 1836. They have just finished installing hundreds of markers along this trail. It's also a place where the Freedom Trails, (aka Underground Railroad) used several stops. And it's the world's "round barn" capital. I don't know if any of this is helpful, but it was certainly interesting. BTW, I doubt the casque is or was near Eau Claire--that is merely the largest and most notable city near one set of the coordinates. I figured with one in Milwaukee, it would be unlikely there was one in Eau Claire as well. But that's just MY opinion. ck

I was leafing through the Roanoke Island Guidebook today looking for inspiration on P3. The book contains a walking tour of Manteo, the largest town on the island. Most of the stops on the walking tour are accompanied by photographs, but not stop #34: Memorial Gateway Pillars Queen Elizabeth Street These pillars commemorating the site of the first English settlement in America were originally located at Old Fort Raleigh. They were moved to the downtown area when Fort Raleigh was transferred to the hands of the National Park Service. Since the suit of armor is sitting on a pedestal or pillar of some sort, I thought it might be interesting to see if they match, but I can't seem to find photographs of the Memorial Gateway Pillars anywhere. Who's good at finding online images? And when was Fort Raleigh transferred to the Park Service?

This article gives a date of 1930. hxxp://www.time.com/time/magazine/artic ... id=googlep Although I do not know if it was when they were dedicated at the Fort or in Manteo. Edit: Visit the Fort Raleigh National Historic Site Fort Raleigh National Historic Site, located on Roanoke Island, was designated as a National Historic Site in 1941. Situated on more than 500 acres, this location offers a sound side beach, the Fort Raleigh Visitor Center and nature trails. The Visitor Center is home to a small museum with interpretive exhibits, and this site is a must-see for American history enthusiasts. Self-guided tours or tours led by knowledgeable National Park Service staff are available. The Site is open year-round from 9:00 a.m. to 5:00 p.m., seven days a week (hours are extended during the summer months.) For more information, contact Fort Raleigh National Historic Site at (252) 473-5772. transferred to NPS after 1941.... Edit 2: Administrative history The National Historic Site was established on April 5, 1941. As with all historic areas administered by the National Park Service, the site was listed on the National Register of Historic Places on October 15, 1966. Fort Raleigh is co-managed with two other Outer Banks parks, Wright Brothers National Memorial and Cape Hatteras National Seashore, and is the location of the group headquarters. Final edit: hxxp://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_bo ... /hh16i.htm Confirmed 1941 transferred to NPS.

Thanks trohn - this make it highly unlikely that this is our column. I was hoping that it was still there in 1981. But just for completeness' sake, can you (or anyone) find a photo of one of these memorial columns so we can rule it out?

the pillars were moved to Downtown Manteo, or Downtown another city?  Here's a map of Manteo, not sure if any pillers are indicated (unless it's to the right of the 'D', in front of the 'A' and 'GG' businesses) hxxp://www.roanokeisland.net/map_historicmanteo.htm I'll keep looking, i like a challenge interesting history, especially during the 1980's, mentioned on this page hxxp://www.roanokeisland.net/history.htm

If it helps, the columns should be just east of the intersection of Queen Elizabeth (N-S) and Budleigh (E-W):

wrong pillars but a nice park in Manteo...

almost the right intersection but not quite.  It being in Old Town is promising tho.... nary a pillar however.

Are we venturing out of the Elizabethan gardens? What about these pillars below?  Not exact, I know, but still in the gardens....Did we look at these before? hxxp://travel.webshots.com/photo/104644 ... 2316TYtQPZ hxxp://travel.webshots.com/photo/104644 ... 2316lXdihT

boogie - I saw those up close and personal, scratched my head, pondered pictures, etc. and nothing came of it. It's a genuine vintage Italian fountain, but I could find no resemblance between it and P3.

Unknown: There is a mile or so trail called "The Freedom Trail" that the freed slaves took to The Freedom Colony during the civil war. It starts somwhere near the Fort and ends somewhere near Roanoke Sound.  It is a self guided tour. It is noted that there are markers and statues at the end of the trail. I can find no pictures that display this trail.  It is independent of the John Herlock trail. I know this is an older message, but I forgot to answer it before. The "Freedom Trails" in the US are not "trails" in the pathway sense. This is the new name for what used to be called the Underground Railroad , the series of 'stops' at safe houses, hiding spots, etc., for slaves escaping to the North. Just so you know. c

I emailed Manteo's town clerk, a young lass by the name of Becky Breiholz, concerning the 2 mysterious pillars and got this VERY brief and unhelpful reply: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "I think you best place to receive that information would be the Outer Banks History Center 252-473-2655 Becky Breiholz, CMC Town Clerk Town of Manteo P.O. Box 246 Manteo, NC 27954 252-473-2133 fax-252-473-2135 [email protected] " ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- almost sounds like Becky is telling me to contact Becky with this inquiry dropped a short email to the Outer Banks History Center and will let you all know what they say...

two things I would like to mention. First, there is a post(which I can't find right now) somewhere in this thread in which someone mentions writing on the rectangular stone pedestal.  After staring at this for awhile under the harsh glare of a 300W Halogen lamp I did see the words although I could not read them.  However, from the general shape of them I think they are just the artists full name: John Jude Palencar. Second, it occurred to me that the suit of armor in this picture(if it represents a real suit of armor that can actually be found somewhere) could actually be two different suits of armor.  As the left and right sides of the armor are similar but distinctly different.  Unfortunately, I don't have the photo editing software to actually examine this.  So I'm wondering if someone has the ability to split this image right down the middle of the armor and then mirror it (i.e. you would have a picture of two right sides of the picture or two lefts).  Not sure that is very clear but I don't know how to explain it better digger7

Digger...just get a small mirror and lay it along the central meridian of the armor. That will tell you if you're right. ck

digger, try this: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/15615105@N00/490467091/ if they are too small, pm me an email address and i'll send you a bigger version.

Thanks 2fast, that was exactly what I wanted.  And while I don't have anything to match them up to right now, I do have to say that now that they are mirrored they look more like real suits of armor. Thanks again. digger7

interesting idea indeed...has anything else come of this?

I thought I would go back and revisit this one for a bit since it has laid dormant for a while.  In both this thread and the V11 thread, I didn't see any mention of this gate: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/25 ... 8999hOZqis hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/fallingstar/718893104/ Doesn't the tops look like the pedestal the suit of armor is sitting on to anyone else?  Here is my pathetic attempt to cut and paste for illustration purposes: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/15615105@N00/1404223323/ To the left is a plaque that has the saying mentioning the dark forest from V11.  I'm not sure where at in the gardens this is located, but might serve as a visual confirmer linking P3 to a specific park/area/garden/whatever.

This thread reminded me that i had run across these pictures when I was researching the Missouri Botanical Gardens. A couple of things really stood out for me: One is the trio of angels--look at the one in the middle--and then look at the little figure on the left in the image, dangling from the carnation. The poses are very similiar. The fountain angel is in the same pose as the suit of armor--and the pictures using the mirrored halves of the picture a few posts back--if you look at the one on the left, that armor "head" looks like a dog face. It's interesting that the fountain angel has four dog heads surrounding her at the base. You can't see them well in the picture, but if you look just below her feet you can see one of them. There's something of a similiarity there, too. I don't know if this helps or hurts, but I found it interesting nonetheless.

I'm more inclined after researching Verse 11 to think of this image as the connection with the Wright Brothers location in Kill Devil Hills, the Outer Banks in NC. There are a few things I found out today: All the dangling bits from the armor are Aircraft companies. Bell, IMP, Keystone. If you look at the armor itself, you can see resemblances between cockpit instruments/gauges and the components of the armor. The control yoke looks like the pieces of the armor on the right arm. Even the pea on the spoon has an aviation connection: Howard Hughes was well known for only liking peas--and for being somewhat of a nutcase about separating them by size.

Cool theory! What about Lockheed (lock-keyed)? Nyuk nyuk.

Shecrab: if you like the idea of the Wright Brothers location in Kill Devil Hills, its intresting to note that there is another connection to Baum, just west of Wright Brothers National Memorial : Baum Bay Drive is just off the end of runway 02 at First Flight Airport, and connects with Collington Road, which actually traverses the eastern end of the National Memorial.  Thus, one could " ride the man of oz" on Baum Bay Drive, and also "look north at the wing", which is  in fact to the north, and very close by.  Also , the view of the "wing"  from Baum Bay Drive, would be unobstructed, unlike the view from the "dark forrest" in the National Park on Roanoke Island. In my opinion, to "look north at the "wing" from Roanoke Island means you have to be on the beach....  Take just a few steps into the forest from the beach, and the view of the "wing" is completely obstructed by the trees and other foliage.  Unless the casque is buried on the edge of the beach or on the beach itself, (which seems unlikely) you cannot see the "wing" from the "path that beckons,' or from any other path in the Roanoke National Park maritime forrest.   If the casque is on Roanoke Island in the National Park, then the "path that beckons" takes you to whatever it is that can be last touched or first seen standing.  The next part of the verse then directs you to look north at the wing.(provided you have discovered what can be last touched or first seen standing)  My point is that  you cannot look north at the wing from any path unless you have reached it's terminus where it connects with the beach.

Unknown: Take just a few steps into the forest from the beach, and the view of the "wing" is completely obstructed by the trees and other foliage.  Unless the casque is buried on the edge of the beach or on the beach itself, (which seems unlikely) you cannot see the "wing" from the "path that beckons,' or from any other path in the Roanoke National Park maritime forrest. That isn't quite true. There are a few (3?) points along the Hariot Trail where one is still in the woods, but can look north and view the Memorial. Here is one such place that provides an unobstructed view:

I think we need to send soemone to dig...and maybe to do more photos. There is an extensive photo collection on line of Kill Devil Hills, but it's almost all the beach. hxxp://www.outerbanks.com/wrightbrothers/ And there are some good pics of the memorial as well. I did notice that Baum Bay Drive thing! What a great pun, too---Baum Bay=Bomb bayI always thought that little studded ball on the armor's right wrist looked like one of the underwater mines from WWII or a bomb of some sort.

Kato wrote:: Shecrab: if you like the idea of the Wright Brothers location in Kill Devil Hills, its intresting to note that there is another connection to Baum, just west of Wright Brothers National Memorial : Baum Bay Drive is just off the end of runway 02 at First Flight Airport, and connects with Collington Road, which actually traverses the eastern end of the National Memorial.  Thus, one could " ride the man of oz" on Baum Bay Drive, and also "look north at the wing", which is  in fact to the north, and very close by.  Also , the view of the "wing"  from Baum Bay Drive, would be unobstructed, unlike the view from the "dark forrest" in the National Park on Roanoke Island. In my opinion, to "look north at the "wing" from Roanoke Island means you have to be on the beach....  Take just a few steps into the forest from the beach, and the view of the "wing" is completely obstructed by the trees and other foliage.  Unless the casque is buried on the edge of the beach or on the beach itself, (which seems unlikely) you cannot see the "wing" from the "path that beckons,' or from any other path in the Roanoke National Park maritime forrest.   If the casque is on Roanoke Island in the National Park, then the "path that beckons" takes you to whatever it is that can be last touched or first seen standing.  The next part of the verse then directs you to look north at the wing.(provided you have discovered what can be last touched or first seen standing)  My point is that  you cannot look north at the wing from any path unless you have reached it's terminus where it connects with the beach. Not only that, but the word "wing" is not metaphorical...it is actual. The memorial is carved with the image of a bird's wing on each side: The Wright Brothers National Memorial, in Kill Devil Hills, is carved on each side with the image of a bird's wing, in towering recognition of the fact that birds provided much of the inspiration and knowledge needed for the development of manmade aircraft.

Shecrab I like your direction. Here is something to help you.... Sometimes the answer is right before you, you just have to look for it...Sonoran and I have solved this one and sonoran will post what you seek soon.....Be Patient

The Secret is cryptic enough.  No need to add to the anticipation.  If you have it, post it!

Great ideas shecrab , especially the armor having airplane resemblances! I can't believe I never noticed that. There are even struts under the arms and rivets that would be used in aluminum sheet construction of aircraft. His arms are also extended like someone would do if they were pretending to fly. I always thought the armor suit had a lighthouse feel to it, with the round base and slender transition. But I never could find lighthouses in the coordinate area. With the Verse 5 match to the Wright Brothers National Memorial and the monument having a beacon installed on top, this theme makes sense now.

Yeah...I read what you posted!! LOL... See? refutation leads to ideas...and ideas lead to, er, more ideas!! Verse 5 could easily fit as well. And I don't think there's much wrong with it. The "forest to the south" line bothers me a bit, though. But the "weight and roots extended" is finally explained. That bothered me more. I just thought of something else:....a "forest to the south" could be something other than TREES...it might be referring to a quarry---where the markers for the first flight airstrip were first cut. (the only 'standing' member?) who knows...that's why I like this puzzle so much.

I have been a lurker until now.  I feel that in the pictures a designated long \ lat number can always be made if there is one to be seen (mill walk  key). In this picture there seems to be numbers all over, however, for those that have the book if you turn the pic upside down in the red you willl see most clearly 40,84. which puts us along the lines of indianapolis,IN? OR maybe not just throwing out my finding.

Exfox....I once thought so too...in fact, I found several numbers, as you said. That was one location, but nothing else ever confirmed any of the Imagery. I really like this image for the Wright Brother's location in Kill Devil Hills/Kitty Hawk area, and those numbers are also there.

mgb posted back in 2005 that s/he thought the thingy on our armor's right wrist (our left) could be a mace or a naval mine. It does strongly resemble a naval mine, but here I argue that it is meant to represent a mace. Maces came in many forms, but a common one (judging from Google images) is this: Besides the connection that a medieval hand-to-hand combat weapon would have to a suit of armor, there is a more specific and direct connection to Roanoke Island and the Lost Colony. From a National Park Service website: "In 1602, fifteen years after the abandonment of the colony, Ralegh renewed his search for it by sending Samuel Mace , who had been to America twice before. This voyage may have been an effort to keep Ralegh's claims alive by suggesting that the colony still existed. To prevent the crew from spending time cruising the shipping lanes rather than searching for the colony, Ralegh hired the ships for monthly wages. After making landfall near Cape Fear rather than Hatteras, Mace and his men spent a month gathering sassafras, which brought a high price in London, but never searched for the colony. Bad weather was the excuse he offered. In 1603 Ralegh engaged Mace and Bartholomew Gilbert for another expedition. Gilbert failed to find the Chesapeake Bay and landed instead near the entrance of the Delaware Bay, where he was killed by the Indians. Mace may have visited the Chesapeake Bay. Powhatan later complained that Englishmen had captured some of his people, and records show that Indians were in London in August 1603. But by now Ralegh himself was in no position to send other expeditions — he was soon to be imprisoned in the Tower of London by the new king, James I."

How about the fact that this is the only painting that extends beyond the borders of the frame?  That woudl pretty much confirm "Outer Banks" for me.

For those of you searching for a picture of a goat, the armor has the face of a goat.

the armor has a face of a horse... Nag's Head!!!!!!!!!!!! Do a Nag's Head search on google maps, and you'll understand. -regulus

Horses don't have ears that flop down, nor do they have little nub horns... also, their faces are WAY longer, and everyone wants to find some reference to Capricorn.  Now, is it fair to assume that the fact it LOOKS like a goat is enough to cast reasonable doubt about it being a horse?  Maybe.  Maybe it's a Goat-Horse!  A Hippocorn!  Or very possibly a chimera, which has a lion's body/head, a goats head, a snake for a tail, et cetera (and on Apulian images dated at about 350 BCE, udders)... That would also be quite fairy-ish.  Anyone else notice what looks like a Sand Dollar below and to the right of the spoon?

Hi All I randomly stumbled across the Secret just a few days ago and quickly made a few observations that I think might be of use (or not...time will tell).  I have read nearly all of the previous post on both Q4T and Tweleve so I feel that I am somewhat up to speed. Firstly, my apologies for the length of this post but I thought I might as well get all of my observations down at once. Alright, here goes: I live in Halifax, NS so my attention was obviously drawn to the idea that one (maybe more) of the casques were/are buried in Canada.  A quick perusal of the images leads me to believe that Image #3 is for the Canadian site, based on the fact that it is the only image in which the picture extends “outside of its borders” (ie outside the U.S.).  Reading older posts on Q4T, I found that others have made this same observation and I believe it to be logical. From the work of others, I was under the impression that Montreal and Toronto were the expected sites of the Canadian casque, however upon beginning my study of Image #3 I quickly came to a startling conclusion:  I believe that P3 is actually depicting my own city of Halifax! Perusing older posts have led me to the mention of Point Pleasant Park as a potential site in Halifax, which I believe to be plausible In PPP there are several very old towers and memorials, notably this one: I was immediately reminded of this site by P3 (incidentally, this is the Sailors Memorial which lists the names of men lost in WW1, WW2 and the Korean War).  Also, to my eye, the pose of the figure in P3 resembles a ships rigging, which should be a self-explanatory link to Nova Scotia.  Alsio, the reflection in the abdomen section of the armor resembles a ship's anchor and there is indeed a very large ship's anchor monument very close to the Sailors Memorial pictured above. At first, that was all I had and passed it off as mere coincidence, until I thought of another site on the other side of the Northwest Arm from PPP, The Dingle Tower: Then, I really got to thinking.  The Dingle Tower was built by Sir Sanford Fleming, builder of the Intercolonial Railway and the "inventor" of the standard time zones which are currently in use throughout the world and stands in Sir Sanford Fleming Park.  Once I made that connection, I began to see things in P3 which lead me to believe that I may be onto something. For example, the bells hanging from the figure could be a reference to "dingle".  The armor is clearly English or Scottish, and "Sir" (ie knight) Fleming was indeed a Scot who moved to Canada.  As you can see in the photo, two bronze lions sit at the base of the tower and I find that the figure in P3's helmet resembles the face of a bronze lion.  Furthermore, the mace attached to the figure's right wrist could be taken as a reference to Mason (Fleming was a famous Freemason), as well as an ornate ceremonial mace being the symbol of the Nova Scotia House of Assembly as a symbol of the shift of power between the (then) king of England and the first colony in the New World (Nova Scotia='New Scotland'). Also, the figure contains the cartographic symbol for 'bridge' in two places on its armor and Halifax is famous for having two huge bridges spanning the harbour.  The other symbol on the armour is both the symbol for 'earth' (as in he united the Earth with standardized time) and is also the Templar cross (it is believed that the Templars fled to Nova Scotia in the late 14th century after being driven out of Scotland, well before Columbus 'discovered' America, and set up a battery in the province under the leadership of Sir Henry Sinclair--there is also the theory that the Templars led to modern Freemasonry).  The cross on the figure's cheek is one which is used to represent the four corners of the Earth (also a reference to the uniting of the globe).  The four-leaf clover on the figure's armor could also tie into Fleming as he is said to have come up with the idea for standard time while on a trip in Ireland. If this picture does in fact represent Nova Scotia, then I believe that the 'pea' in the spoon in the lower right in in fact a blueberry (the provincial berry).  I believe the object hanging from the other end of the spoon to be a sand dollar (sand=Sanford, and a reference to the sea). I have also noted these things in the background: I believe that the "key" hanging from each arm means to take one number from each side for each co-ordinate.  Doing this reveals the numbers "63" and "45", the exact latitude and longitude of Halifax!  I also believe that the image in the red square is an outline of the province of Nova Scotia, minus Cape Beton Island.  I was thinking that the image of the cross on the wall in the lower left could be a part of a map of Point Pleasant Park, if the cross is taken to be the Sailors Memorial: Following the outline of the marks on the wall to the point where the small "shovel" appears (directly under the left key) would lead to Martello Tower, in the middle of the park (more on the signifigance of this later). The other red square at the base of the pedestal contains letters which I cannot make out.  Maybe someone else has some insight into this? Okay, so where does that leave us?  Which verse would tie into this?  I know it goes against the generally accepted linkings, but I believe that verse 10 is the most likely candidate (though others could fit as well): In the shadow Of the grey giant  (Dingle Tower) Find the arm that  (The Northwest Arm) Extends over the slender path  (Arm Drive in PPP--just across the water) In summer You'll often hear a whirring sound  (the park is infested with pine beetles which prduce a sound like chainsaws in the summer and have for decades) Cars abound  (Rail cars--Fleming built the first Intercolonial Railway and there is a huge railyard nearby) Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native  (the sign by Martello tower tells how it was based on a design used in the West Indies and is the first of its kind in north America) The natives still speak Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.  ("Hard Words" = the names of those killed in 3 wars -- '3 volumes' engraved in metal on the plaque) Take twice as many east steps as the hour (I believe the hour to be 13, not 1 as in the clock in P3 since Fleming developed the 24 hour clock, hence 26 paces) Or more From the middle of one branch Of the v (the v in the path?  Not sure...) Look down And see simple roots In rhapsodic man's soil  (Any suggestions??) Or gaze north Toward the isle of B.  (Baffin island is directly north from Halifax, or could refer to the Battery which is north of this section of the park). So, why Halifax?  It is a major port (as many of the sites are) and is world famous as a site for real buried treasures.  It was used for centuries as a hiding place for pirates from the Caribean and would be the most logical place in Canada to hide a buried treasure.  Of course, I could be wrong (and probably am), but there seems to be a fair number of reasonable linakges here... In any case, I apologize again for the lengthy post and I look forward to insights from fellow members.

Thanks for sharing all the great new ideas! I will think about them. The writing you cannot make out at the base of the pedestal is likely the artist's faint signature - "John Jude Palenchar," just as it is written in the first painting. I spent a week in Nova Scotia last summer - Halifax is beautiful.

first off, welcome to the hunt. even though i am basically sold on both Blight's theory of this image being Roanoke and Boogie's theory of that verse being New York, you sure have a convincing argument. sorry guys, but i think this merits some investigation.

hi greyman77, it's gonna take a lot to convince me that this image 3/verse 11  isn't roanoke island. i take the picture being oustide the border to be for the "outer banks". and the face to be nag's head. i've seen the armor in the museum (in pictures) and there was even some red velvet outfit in the museum. i do like the "dingle" reference, that is good , i will try to keep an open mind, because i have read some of the treasure stories.

I better get out to Brooklyn quick so I can save everyone some time.  Greyman's points are interesting.  Certainly you can make it fit somewhat in halifax, but your gonna have to rip the shovel out of my dead fingers!

Here's an absolutely perfect example of my statements made under the Verse 8 thread. Congratulations for a well-done analysis. I don't know what I believe now, but I think it merits some thought!

boogieman wrote:: I better get out to Brooklyn quick so I can save everyone some time.  Greyman's points are interesting.  Certainly you can make it fit somewhat in halifax, but your gonna have to rip the shovel out of my dead fingers! Spoken like a good New Yorker

Excellent analysis Greyman.  Interesting name choice, by the way.

Greyman....here are some questions for you.....How do you account for the images below? Especially the Roanoke Island map/shape?

shecrab wrote:: Here's an absolutely perfect example of my statements made under the Verse 8 thread. Congratulations for a well-done analysis. I don't know what I believe now, but I think it merits some thought! funny that you say that and then follow it up with your images of Roanoke.  Boogie is just being Boogie.  He is not saying Greyman is absolutely wrong.  He just feels that he is absolutely right. Wilhouse said you could borrow this Boogie:

Unknown: funny that you say that and then follow it up with your images of Roanoke. That's right I did...because I was interested in finding out how they fit into his theory, since he hadn't mentioned them. Sheesh, Fox.....

shecrab wrote:: Greyman....here are some questions for you.....How do you account for the images below? Especially the Roanoke Island map/shape? Actually, I was thinking that the little thing holding the keys could represent the stylized "lion/griffon" at the center of the NS flag: Since it has a lion's head and eagle talons, I just made that jump. As far as the mask, I still contend that it looks more feline than anything else (though I can't explain the pointy horns/ears either).  Look: Look at the nostrils...it's way closer to the lion than the others, plus the holes on the left side match where the whiskers would be.  IMO anyway. I apologize for the poor resolution on the goat--first good face-on image I found. In any case, however, you've got me with the image outline.  That definitely looks like Roanoke Island (I had never seen a picture of it before).  You can make it look like NS with some creative rotating, but it's pretty spot on to Roanoke, huh? But what about the co-ordinates on the walls?

I am just goofing with you Ms crab. I am with you, it is the island outline that is hard to dismiss.

There are numbers all over these paintings--check out all the numbers in image 2!  Look at the red "skirt" under the armor. There's a 98--or 38...or 86...(upside down).  I wasn't trying to convince you to change your mind or your ideas! I just wondered how you felt about these particular things. Okay, Fox, no harm done!!

look at the designs below the nostrils... they are different, I think that means something... -regulus

They could mean something, but to be honest, I think they play into "artistic license" a bit with the stylization of the armor... remember that during and after Elizabethan times (hint hint) that armor was not meant to be functional anymore-- they sort of built a statue out of the pieces (and in most cases, the pieces were form entirely different suits of armor).  Faceplates, as such, would have contained stylish, if not functional, breathing vents... Gauntlets generally had hooks on them to either attach swords so they wouldn't be dropped, or to hang them from special hangers in the belt region when not in use.  The hook itself looks like a disengorged claw or talon of some kind, and for some reason, has a keyring that is more appropo to a jailer.  The fact that the armor is golden and/or decorative may imply a nobleman of some sort.  Or a "Sir" as in Sir Walter Raleigh, for instance. I believe he was a "knight of the Girdle" to Elizabeth, or something to that effect.  The red skirt is something you see more on earlier dress, like in Roman times--In fact, the armor itself is stylized enough to be that of a gladiator, rather than a cavalier or skirmisher.

regulus wrote:: look at the designs below the nostrils... they are different, I think that means something... -regulus Hey Reg,  Here's a link with many many pages of different symbols.  This page is an example.  A Village? hxxp://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/2623.html and another: hxxp://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/2637.html

isn't there a "village" on roanoke?  like something named (e.g.) village? -regulus

A small colony or two might come close to that definition...

not a village but a Lost Colony.

Wilhouse said you could borrow this Boogie: [/quote] Wup-pee!  Who wants to help knock down a bridge?

I do, for one... If I had the chance in, say, 1979 to make every town only have ONE goshdarned bridge, dagummit I would!

I may very well be wasting my time on these...again.  But here is another interesting symbol. hxxp://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/2629.html

Why are there bells in P3? And why are there 3 of them? Here is one theory. There are three "Bells Islands" off the coast of North Carolina. One is near the southern end of Core/Pamlico Sound at 34.73194N, 76.50083W. Another is further north, at  36°25'20.36"N, 75°58'8.12"W. The third is right next to Roanoke Island, at 35.88028N, 75.60861W: Actually, there are 4, if you count "Little Bell Island" at 36.41194N, 75.96111W. (All these coordinates can be pasted directly into Google Earth.)

That is a pretty good assumption...  I like it as a reference to aircraft manufacturers too, except that Bell makes helicopters...  Which COULD be wingless birds born of ancient dreams of flight, since DaVinci did illustrate them, and they are mentioned vaguely in the bible...

i'd never heard that Raleigh was called "the girdle of Elizabeth" . that was interesting. here's a couple of pics i liked when i was reading about the gardens, the lost colony and ft. raleigh i thought this picture of chief wingina atop the ceremonial pole looked like our guy: hxxp://www.outerbanks.com/lostcolony/history/ i have a better picture but the address was so long, this looks like part on the arms: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/gtstuff/461763 ... 059739991/ hxxp://flickr.com/photos/donadams/20077 ... 990519774/ i think of water when i read "last touched or first seen" and this vessel had the same outline as pic: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/donadams/19909 ... 990519774/ but it could just mean "waterside theater" where the play is the symbol? hxxp://flickr.com/photos/pence/563150588/ the oval: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/cocospadilla/1 ... 067614466/ her dress is shaped like a bell: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/cocospadilla/1 ... 067614466/ does this shield have the shape of the belt part of the armor? hxxp://flickr.com/photos/fallingstar/71 ... 646893187/ (this isn't me , but i thought it was interesting that there is something behind the theater) hxxp://flickr.com/photos/viciousbits/147209281/ is it just me or does the arch in the image look like it is more of a point than an oval? and of course i have to play with words, so if i put "wing and dig" together, i think of chief wingina

My mistake-- he was a "Knight of the GARTER," which in england is a highly prestigious Knighthood only enjoyed by 24 people at a time (not counting royalty)... Interestingly enough, their old crest depicts A circled cross similar to the one on the chest of the Painting...  That ceremonial pole bit is based EXACTLY off of this painting:

Hi everyone, I just started looking at hunts outside of dar.  This book and Image 3 really caught my eye.  I believe it goes with verse 11.  Has anyone figured out the lines: "With two maps After circle and square" And I'm wondering....where exactly is that Virginia Dare stone marker located at fort raleigh, at the beginning of a trail?  If not, can you see a trail behind it?  I can't find it on any map and all the photos I've seen are too close up to see surroundings. Thanks!

The marker is located right at the head of the trail, which extends behind and to its left. If memory serves, the trail winds its way past the remains of Ft. Raleigh, and then one branch goes to the amphitheatre and another to the Hariot nature trail.

Thank you, forest blight.  It sounds like it marks the trail beginning near the visitor's center, then?  Appreciate your input as I have never been there.  Someday I hope to go...

Yes, it's at the edge of the woods behind the visitor's center.

I'm thinking that the pea spoon next to the potato chip shape is a general reference to pea island much like our reference to nag's head.  I believe pea island is part of the outer banks. Also, a question was raised about some gate pillars that used to be at the entrance of the Park itself and were later moved.  I may have found a picture of them on this page... hxxp://news.webshots.com/album/557204063aDEtlz?start=12 It should be the second photo named "Fort Raleigh".

I am reading a detailed and engaging archaeological report of excavations of Fort Raleigh on Roanoke Island: Harrington, J. C. (1962). Search for the Cittie of Ralegh: Archaeological excavations at Fort Raleigh National Historic Site . Washington, DC: NPS. ...which I heartily recommend to anyone wishing greater familiarity with the area. It may shed some light on our hunt. For example, it contains several maps of the island, one of which references a "tar kiln on Bell property." I've mentioned Bell before - Albert Quintin "Skipper" Bell designed the Waterside Theatre, which forms the eastern boundary of our suspected burial site and is the home of the outdoor drama "The Lost Colony." The same map contains "Baum Point." In fact, Bell and Baum are family names that crop up frequently where Roanoke is concerned, and have obvious relevance to us. There are three bells in P3 and there is the Baum ferry/bridge reference in V11 (" Ride the man of Oz "). There was an earlier question of how much the beach may have eroded, and whether or not the casque site may be simply gone. The report contradicts local rumors of extensive erosion, saying instead that available evidence suggests only 120 feet had eroded into the ocean between 1896 and 1962 on the north side of the island. At an average of 1.82 feet per year, that means about 49 feet would have eroded between 1981 and 2008, *assuming* the beach had not been protected. Of course, the beach has now been protected from erosion for many years, so I think our casque is still safely buried somewhere on the north end. Recent comments here make me lean away from the Elizabethan Gardens - it would have been way more difficult to sneak a shovel into the enclosed Gardens as opposed to the wide-open Ft. Raleigh grounds. The wall is high, and entering the EG from the beach would involve clearly illegal trespassing, as well as dodging barbed wire fencing in dense foliage. It is much more likely that the casque is buried either in the Ft. Raleigh park grounds or on the beach (with the driftwood). Naturally, it is extremely, extremely illegal to just go into either place and dig. Federally protected and archaeologically significant sites are one of the worst places to start sinking holes on flimsy evidence.

ran across this story, and maybe we need to put out, one of those have you seen me pics of the casque seems it is a pos that it could have been found, and the collectors are not aware of what it is. not sure what he means by collectors Virginia archaeologist Nick Luccketti, who also has worked at Fort Raleigh, says he has a reason to believe that maybe the village site hasn't been lost to erosion. "I've talked to collectors who have walked the beach on the north end for 30 years, and they don't have any 16th-century European artifacts in their collections," Luccketti said. hxxp://news.nationalgeographic.com/news ... ony_2.html

Very interesting story CW.  I really love this section... "In 2000 National Park Service archaeologists using ground-penetrating radar discovered rectangular-shaped objects buried beneath several feet of sand. (Park Service staff did not excavate the objects, but suspect they could be related to Hariot's work.)" . . . . . . or perhaps they could be related to Preiss' work... Maybe we need to locate this spot...

This is a good idea. Any member close enough to the area should talk to the park service. It looks like we are going to need their permission and help to find this one. Also show them the image and verse maybe they can point us in the right direction. Also ask about ground penetrating radar. If an afordable non-invasive form of ground penetrating radar can be obtained it would be very helpful in finding the Houston and Milwaukee casque and maybe San Fransisco too. If we either find this casque or can confirm the location the Image 11 is definately the Canadian casque. The thing that seems strange is that for the verses that look as though they go to this image talks about getting permission to dig out. This means we either have the wrong verse for charlston or the wrong location for this verse. These are all things the park service can help us with. Better show them both the verse we think goes with this and the one we think goes to Charlston. An inperson visit will likely get us the best results.

Noticed this image of the "dancing medicine man of the lost colony" hxxp://news.webshots.com/photo/22990844 ... 6770HjIxeT and was wondering if there could be other pictures of him in different poses. perhaps one matches the little guy hanging from the bubble.

maltedfalcon wrote:: Noticed this image of the "dancing medicine man of the lost colony" hxxp://news.webshots.com/photo/22990844 ... 6770HjIxeT and was wondering if there could be other pictures of him in different poses. perhaps one matches the little guy hanging from the bubble. there are a couple of more interesting pics in that album this one reminds me of the red thing at the bottom of the metal guy hxxp://news.webshots.com/photo/25633102 ... 6770aKoKXk this is a good shot of the theater hxxp://news.webshots.com/photo/20426078 ... 6770HRBdVh

I dont see the red thingy in the vine, but I do see the base below the red thingy here. hxxp://news.webshots.com/photo/28274447 ... 6770IvZVsU

Nice find falcon, I would say that the pedestal part of thoes entrance columns are a very good match to the pedestal of our metal man.  Now we just need to find the cylindrical part that he is standing on.

This is a very old photograph. Those columns are not there anymore, and I doubt they were there in 1981.

This could well be true, but on the other hand, is it not possible, when BP brought home photos and info and maps to be worked into the images, that he brought home a postcard....

True, entirely possible.

The bigest clue that we may all be overlooking is the "metal man" its self. The metal man may likely be an artist's adaptation of an actual suit of armor that is or was in a museum or visitor center near the approximate area of the casque. It is possible that additional clues were added to the armor as well. My guess is that the arms were added by the airtist. Looking at other examples of his work reinforces that idea. The helmet and chest plate could be an exact reproduction of the actual display with possibil more clues added. It may be helpful to see if a suit of armor similer to that in the image is located or at one time was on display in a museum or visitor center in the area.

regulus, was there a statue of chief wingina anywhere, or anything about the tribes that lived there? monuments or inscriptions? i read yesterday that harriot learned the algonquin language. the stylus devil's (in the image)  area of origin is native american.  i know wingina is in the play, but is there something that talks about him anywhere else?

There is a similarity to the Wright Brother's Memorial takeoff boulder in the lower right painting area. I couldn’t figure out that area for a while. Then Turtle made a breakthrough. There is a sort of flourish like object drawn in above the boulder object that does a nice job of camouflaging the boulder. Once you remove everything else the boulder shape jumps out for you.

that's good sonoran, i kept looking at that side sideways and trying to make words out of it,........like clock and ocracoke (where blackbeard roamed) in the litany of the jewels: Fairies of England proudly bear Garnet, crown-jewel of their QUEEN ! ( my bold isn't working, so trying to make the word queen stand out) could it just be the statue of queen elizabeth?  would it be possible to dig there without being seen? what is on her backside? hxxp://flickr.com/photos/suesplace/1020628166/ hxxp://flickr.com/photos/90523335@N00/2567770384/ looks like just flower beds, and if they are just annuals, soon they'll be putting in something for fall....if i was a hunter, i would see to get permission to dig behind it, when they are digging back there anyway........

Unknown: could it just be the statue of queen elizabeth?  would it be possible to dig there without being seen? what is on her backside? This sounds like the lead-in for a very bad pun..."What is on the backside of the Queen of England?"  Since this is a UK based forum, maybe we can get some of the natives to chime in with a punch line. On the practical side, Preiss said there were no casques buried in ANY public or private flower beds. This is the main reason no one has dug in the gardens--that and the fact that they would have a person with a shovel drawn and quartered if they saw you digging there.  The entire place is highly protected.

i was hoping to wake up to some good ones ceekay i haven't seen any pictures of keys or bells (that i recall) at either ft. raleigh or wright brother's memorial.  has anyone seen any? think they could be another play on words? keyringkeybellbell ringkeykeybellbell keykeybellbell keybellkeybell or maybe since bells ring... keyringringring ringkeyringring or since there are two of each keysbells bellskeys keysrings ringskeys ringbellkeykeybell lol, this is how my mind works on 1 cup of coffee the shapes of the keys are different and there is Bells island close by...

I tried that too, slappy. I looked for place names and family names like "Belsky" or "Keeble" but no dice. "Bell" is an entrenched family name there, and a Bell designed the amphitheatre for The Lost Colony . The mace on the armor's wrist may be a reference to an individual named Mace who was connected to the colony. The pea in the spoon is a tough one, though. There is a Pea Island nearby, but the connection is pretty tenuous. On the other hand, it probably wouldn't have occurred to us that it is a pea without the spoon, so maybe BP was trying to emphasize the "pea" interpretation? Maybe Pea = P?

FB, There is such a thing as a "pea spoon".  (who knew?) hxxp://www.spencermarks.com/html/tiffan ... sterl.html No research on its significance yet...a local silversmith, a cafe, a gift shop..perhaps? AP

slappybuns wrote:: i was hoping to wake up to some good ones ceekay i haven't seen any pictures of keys or bells (that i recall) at either ft. raleigh or wright brother's memorial.  has anyone seen any? think they could be another play on words? Well, sort of.... Bell is an aircraft manufacturer. Keystone is another. There is a Pea Island National Wildlife refuge and Belsl Island is also near the WB memorial site. There is also an airplane known as an IMP--( I'M  P ?--see also the little dangling figure of the imp ) The word "IMP" is an acronym which stands for Independently Made Plane. (No lie)

i just read this and  thought it was neat because queen elizabeth's skirt does look like a bell: " Cool statue of the Queen Elizabeth that sent the first colonists to Roanoke. Sean kept hitting it, like a bell, since it was metal and made a loud "gong." "T i'm thinking the bench closest to queen elizabeth also i read where in the fire everything was lost except the costumes (they were thrown in the ocean) and the" assembly bell", and that their is a plaque there somewhere for albert quentin "skipper" bell i'm thinking a bench close to queen elizabeth

I keep looking at the "thing" dangling from the knight's right hand... the thing holding the keyring...and I see a bat ! Anyone else see it? AP

animal painter wrote:: I keep looking at the "thing" dangling from the knight's right hand... the thing holding the keyring...and I see a bat ! Anyone else see it? AP I see it too.

i see it too, lol.  Bats in the Belfry............... here's what they have in the museum: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/gtstuff/461771 ... 059739991/

Just a quick thought while doing research.  Could it be possible that are imp/thing holding the bubble w/ flower represents the shape of a tree?  Look at how the tree branches twist and curve behind V Dare in this photo.

Ok, how about this as the final resting place? Using V11:  the V starts us at the WB Memorial w/ "two friends of octave".  It than takes us across the sound "man of oz" using either the ferry or the bridge.  The "road that leads to Dark forest" takes us into the E Gardens.  The "path" beckoning "to mica (?) and driftwood" tells us to follow the path towards the beach and water.  Then comes the hard part: "Which may be last touched Or first seen standing Look north at the wing And dig To achieve By dauntless and inconquerable" but...Could these first two lines be referring to the gate itself?  "Last touched" because it is a locked gate and you can not go any further or touch anything else.  "first seen standing"...as in - the only thing keeping you from the beach is the locked gate standing before you.  It would be first seen standing because it would be the first (and only) locked gate standing you would see while walking down the path. Now the V comes full circle.  It starts us at the WB Memorial and now that we have reached the gate, it ends by saying you are in the right place to dig when you can see the Memorial to the north which is inscribed with "dauntless and (u)nconquerable".  All you have to do is DIG. This is possibly shown in P3.  The 'window' does not look like the gate itself but the bluish inside resembles water...and our statue stands in front of it with arms outstretched, blocking us from the water like a locked gate. Perhaps the final step would be to walk off of the path into the trees (as this photographer did)... notice the cement orbs on either side of the gate...they resemble the 2 bubbles, one of which is being held by the imp, in P3.  All you have to do is find the tree shaped like the imp and position yourself behind it so that the orb appears to be being held by the imptree.  Dig fellas, dig!

i really like that gate, but surely someone has poked on the backside of it by now......?

It is the treeline off to the side of the path that interests me the most.  Very indiscreet and out of the way.  A perfect place to bury a casque.

I like the gate too.  I like this spot alot! Back to the butt and the bench.  Here's a yellow X for FB. Which may be last touched Or first seen standing Look north at the wing And dig

I believe someone here *did* dig under the Water Gate a few years back. I forget who, though.

Do we know if the bench was there?  Mica and driftwood, at this point, can only mean the beaches or something constructed from wood and...sand?  I posted a long time ago a story by Banfield that spoke about living in a house made of mica and driftwood on an island.  The story has no relation to this hunt, but how do you build a hut out of mica and driftwood?

Unknown: Do we know if the bench was there? It was there in May 2006 when I visited.

Unknown: The story has no relation to this hunt, but how do you build a hut out of mica and driftwood? You could build a house from driftwood and mica. Mica was used as window glass at one time. And driftwood is, well, wood . Something interesting just occured to me. Mica was used as window glass. DUH. It was called "Isinglass".  Anyone remember the song "The Surrey with the Fringe On Top" from the musical Oklahoma ! ? A line in that song goes "...with isinglass curtains you can roll right down/in case there's a change in the weather..." So I looked up Isinglass....and came up with this from Wiki: Other uses of the term "isinglass" Isinglass (collagen) should not be confused with Isinglass (mineral) which is made from sheets of mica and was once commonly used as a heat-resistant substitute for glass, or Project ISINGLASS, a 1960's CIA secret spaceplane project. The 1960's CIA spaceplane project?  Space PLANE ? Hmmm...Well, needless to say I checked and it had no connection with the location or any of the landmarks therein. Mica is now primarily used as an eletrical insulator. So maybe, instead of continuing to search the beach, (which I think is absolutely FRUITLESS because of the nature of beaches and sand and surf,) perhaps he was referring to a power station, an electrical tower, or a telephone pole! Which would possibly be NEAR a place where driftwood could be found. Nothing says you have to have both mica AND driftwood in the exact same location--they might be in line--or next to each other.

Here is a link about North Carolina that may be of interest: hxxp://www.1911encyclopedia.org/North_Carolina In 1870 North Carolina's mica mines were reopened, and they produce the best grade of sheet mica for glazing and a large percentage of the country's yield of this mineral. Most of it has been found in the N.E. portion of the Mountain Region; There is also a Driftwood Ave. in Manteo...

forest_blight wrote:: I believe someone here *did* dig under the Water Gate a few years back. I forget who, though. Once again, I am not talking about digging under, near, past, etc..the gate itself or even under, behind, etc to the small bench.  I am talking about probably very near where the photographer of this pic was standing. Think of the 2 bubbles on the left side of the P.  One is higher and slightly smaller than the other...this could be explained by perspective showing the one with the flower inside as being closer to the eye.  Now, if you were standing a few steps to the left of the above mentioned photographer and were to look at the 2 orbs atop the gate, the nearer one would appear larger.  That is what I am basing my suggestion on.  I am 'hoping' that if you were standing in the "right" place, there would be an odd shaped tree (that would resemble our imp) with the nearer orb appearing to be 'held' by the imp/tree.  Also, notice in the first pic of the gate (from the trail), the area that I am focusing on is raised ground.  Therefor, if you were standing there looking at the orbs, the nearer & larger orb would be lower just like the configuration of the P bubbles. I was also a little concerned about the whole N at the Wing but it appears that the E Gardens, especially this water gate is due S from the Wing so it fits perfectly. This may or may not be the right location but it is the PERFECT place to bury something.  I only wish I could afford a plane ticket because I would be out there digging in a heartbeat.

I thought I would just dump everything I have for a Kill Devil Hills solution to just get the information out there for review and discussion. There is a lot more images in this painting than I thought there would be. Airplane Clues Sheet metal Airplane skin look. Similar sheet aluminum used in aircraft manufacturing. Rivets Represents airplane sheet metal work Arm positions Looks like what a person would do to emulate flying, especially an airplane. Braces under arms Typical airplane strut design. Nose Jet engine intakes Eyes Front of airliner windows Circles on chest Instrument gauges found in an airplane cockpit Stick and knob Control stick for airplanes. Knob Cockpit control knob. Landing gear? Line in chest Line runs from top circle to bottom belt with jewel offset. In an aerial view this would match the straight path from the monument in circle on hill down to takeoff boulder offset on left. Hanging Loops Shows four landing spots. Spacing is similar. The brothers made three successive and slightly longer flights that day. Then they had a large jump in distance on fourth flight. Hanging lever Control lever in cockpit? Keys One key looks like a mechanical part. Maybe a valve cock? I have no idea why the keys are used. Flight Red skirt Pattern can be found in feathers. Maybe tail feathers? Bubbles Floating in air to represent flight Imp Represents flight by stepping off the edge and maintaining altitude by holding onto bubble. Weight hanging from foot represents gravity. Plum bob Tied to foot to represent weight and the effect of gravity on the imp. Bells Alexander Graham Bell was a pioneer in aviation. His team became known as Bell's boys. hxxp://wrightbros.org/History/Wright%20 ... lsboys.htm Spoon with pea Howard Hughes was a pioneer in aviation. “In the 1930s, close friends reported he was obsessed with the size of peas.” “Picky about his peas, he often used a special utensil — resembling a small rake — to ferret out the largest peas, which he found unappetizing.” If you put a pea by itself in a painting without a reference it may not be recognized. But if you put it on a spoon it instantly becomes a pea, at least for me. Area Helmet with horns Kill Devil Hills. Helmet has a hill shape to it. Hill shapes echoed in both arms’ elbow joints. Cross Wright Brothers Memorial Park. Cross represents that this national park is a memorial park for the departed Wright Brothers. Window Simply a method to bring outside and inside images. Castle like to continue theme. Light Has a ring around it. Typical view of a lighthouse light with ring seen through moisture or a sea mist. Water Splashing breakwater for coastal location Arms Extend outside of frame. Outer Banks? Hump Shape of the takeoff boulder Patch over crack Any ideas?

Unknown: Imp  Represents flight by stepping off the edge and maintaining altitude by holding onto bubble. Weight hanging from foot represents gravity. Plum bob  Tied to foot to represent weight and the effect of gravity on the imp. Just a couple of short responses (for now): It isn't tied to the foot. You can follow that bell's string all the way up to the armor, just like for the other ones. The bubbles seem to be independent of the armor; that one just happens to be superimposed over a string. I liked the Bell's Boys and Howard Hughes insights.

yes i liked the bell's boys too, that was all pretty interesting.  you kindof have me second guessing, but having seen those arms in the museum and the armor and those other things, even that red feathery skirt, i remember seeing something in the museum that looked like it,  i'm holding on to thinking it's representing chief wingina for now, but i will keep an open mind because those bells have to mean something.

you mean besides roanoke being near pea island and bell island...

maltedfalcon wrote:: you mean besides roanoke being near pea island and bell island... Thanks...

I saw this sculpture in Chicago recently. Could not find the name of the artist. It looked so much like the little globe-holder hanging from the armor-guy, that I thought there may be a similar sculpture near the casque site.

Where in Chicago, AP?

FB, It was in the atrium of the River City Condos...on the Chicago River hxxp://www.rivercitycondos.com/ AP

sure looks like it!  i bet it's from an admirer of "The Secret"

I apologize for the length of this post. However, I wanted to post the whole theory that I am presenting, the logic of which is below. I believe the armor image is supposed to be representative of a bridge, rather then a cross (or a play on words..."a cross" = across). The arms bridge across from the left side of the page to the right. The bridge for this theory would be the Mackinac Bridge in Michigan that connects Macinaw City with St. Ignace. SIGNIFICANT HISTORY St. Ignace was founded as a mission by a man by the name of Father Jacques Marquette. PLAY ON WORDS The governor of Michigan when the Mackinac Bridge was built was Gerhard Mennen Williams (known better as "Soapy" Williams). "Soap" + water = bubbles. The Mace on the suit of armor could be a play on words (Mace on = Mason, the county in Michigan where Father Marquette died). The Pea on a soup spoon (could be a reference to the phrase "Fog as thick as pea soup"...there are some fogs called "Pea Soupers"). Assuming the pea soup reference, the bells could be fog bells (there was one attached to each tower of the Mackinac Bridge until very recently)… hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/artreyous/4738329303 SYMBOLS There are bridge symbols found in a few different spots on the armor. The symbol that represents the "stone bottom at the water's edge" that can be found on the faceplate of the armor (the section with the cross and four dots). The cross symbol can be found on the bridge itself... hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/artreyous/4738961662 MAP The Mackinac Bridge is a section of Interstate 75. The number 75 that was previously pointed out elsewhere could refer to Interstate 75. The center of the armor could show a section of road just before the bridge on the south side... hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/artreyous/4738328917 The "number three" that the armor is forming could actually be a section of 75 just before the bridge on the north side... hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/artreyous/4738961192 MISC. The general area is originally called Michilimacinac, whose meaning is debated. Some say that the meaning of this term is "The Jumping Off Place", which could be what is happening with the fellow hanging from the bubble (he jumped off and is now hanging on) Most people conclude that nearby Mackinac Island got its name because the word Mackinac supposedly means "Giant Turtle", "Giant Snapping Turtle", etc. This picture could be of a Giant Turtle... hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/artreyous/4738961672 The weird creature image on the halberd could be a Wolverine (Michigan is the Wolverine State, even though there are no wolverines in the state)... hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/artreyous/4738961698 The two different keys could represent the two different cities (for example, symbolically "keys to the city" are given to people). Also, though it doesn't seem to match anything in this theory, the keys may have a link to Greek Mythology. Janus, from where we get the name for the month of January, was the Greek god of gates and paths (keeper of keys), and also god of beginnings and endings. Janus is represented with two faces, one facing forward and one facing backward. The red "slops" (what the red strips of material coming out of the armor may be) could be representative of the time where Michigan was under British control. Nearby Mackinaw City and Mackinac Island are historic reminders of that time period. The light poles on the bridge have a match to the supports of the armor. However, all of the lighting on the bridge was changed in 1999 and older pictures of the bridge that show the lights show no supports. The bumps on the shoulder piece of the armor could match bumps found on a section of the bridge used for maintenance... hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/artreyous/4738961624 VERSE (Verse 5) Lane (Could be the Shipping Lane that the Mackinac Bridge goes over) Two twenty two (convert to letters 2=B, 22=V ... Could be nearby Bridge View Park?) You'll see an arc of lights ("See" could be a confirmer for "View" of Bridge View Park..."arc of lights" would be the lights on the bridge that arc up with the cables) ... hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/artreyous/4738961304 Weight and roots extended (suspension bridge..."roots extended" could be a play on words for "routes extended", which the bridge extends Interstate 75). Together saved the site ("Saved" could be a reference for nearby "church street", off of which is Straits State Park which contains Father Marquette National Monument). Of granite walls (most memorials are made of granite) Wind swept halls (?) Citadel in the night (Another play on words where night = knight, connecting the picture with this verse?) A wingless bird ascended (Father Marquette was the first person to document an old Native American drawings of what is called the Piasa bird. The Piasa, according to legend, was a beast like monster without wings that could fly. Hopefully, there is a reference to this nearby.) Born of ancient dreams of flight (See previous note) Beneath the only standing member (Quote from the memorial statue of Father Marquette "He stands as one of Michigan's greatest men...") --I don't currently have a solution for the rest of this verse, as I have never been there--

My "Field Guide" entry for this image is The Rich Doctor. (Note the horns and the position of the saw, as if he's about to amputate his legs.) In terms of the Wizard of Oz, he'd be the Tin Man (who also had his limbs cut off). Considering the English connection, the garb reminds me of Roman soldiers, with their red skirts. Garnet and England seem well established. I was wondering about a "Q" in the first key - maybe a "U" in the second - to go with the Queen of the litany. There's also a tie-in with the Elf Alpha, who's illustrated by a spoon.

Random trivia: The two symbols... ...could be Sulphur and Sodium from Dalton's elements: These combine to form Sodium Sulphide , which takes the form of red flakes. It is primarily used in the pulp and paper industry. It is used in water treatment as an oxygen scavenger agent, in the photographic industry to protect developer solutions from oxidation, in the textile industry as a bleaching, as a desulfurizing and as a dechlorinating agent, and in the leather trade for the sulfitization of tanning extracts. It is used in chemical manufacturing as a sulfonation and sulfomethylation agent. It is used in the production of rubber chemicals, sulfur dyes and other chemical compounds. Its use in other applications include ore flotation, oil recovery, food preservative, making dyes, and detergent. Alternatively, could provide a date. Taking the atomic numbers of Sulphur and Sodium -> 1611 . Loose Raleigh connection via Rolfe . Brainstorming: 1611 is the year of Shakespeare's The Tempest . The character of Prospero was based on John Dee, who was associated with the Muscovy Company . (Ties in with alchemy/pre-chemistry). Re: "mica and driftwood" (V11), the most common form of mica is Muscovite . There's a road on Roanoke called "Driftwood". Maybe there's another one which relates to a "Muscovite", or someone associated with the Muscovy Company.

Regarding the gate theories in V11, the month for this image is January, from Janus , the double-faced Roman god of doors and gates. Janus is sometimes shown holding two keys (like the image), representing the solstices. (Janus looks both forwards and backwards, like the Ritch Doctor on P209.) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * I'm wondering about the 16 and 11 (atomic numbers of the two chemical elements represented on the breastplate) referring to numbers on the Roanoke tourist map that someone previously uploaded, if this goes back far enough. "With two maps" (V11). OK, so it seems pretty unlikely that this is the identical map they were using in 1982, and that the map and the image on the forum both happened to be scanned at the same resolution...but...I love the way they line up. I've moved them without resizing, putting the gem in the middle of the sunken garden, and Sulphur and Sodium fall right on their numbers. An Elf guided tour...? As well as Kitty Hawk, "Look north at the wing" could be the wings of the theatre.

Unknown: An Elf guided tour...? Ughh..

(...been looking at Roanoke - nothing useful to add, just a couple of notes in passing...) The whimsical map overlay would put the garnet at 13, which is Aluminium. This is one of the constituents in the Pyralspite garnets , such as Almandine (aka "carbuncle", a "precious garnet" used as a gemstone). Roanoke has a "Janus Learning Centre" (age unknown), not far from Cave Spring Middle School , whose Knight emblem "The Squire" is displayed on their signpost. (Not a very interesting area.) Re: "last touched" / "first seen standing"; maybe a night-time thing like pillows, or curtains, or maybe shoes/boots (pun on cobbler's last). One of the forms of mica is isinglass, and there's something called an isinglass curtain used for peepholes in boilers and lanterns. There's a Trollope novel called The Eustace Diamonds involving characters called Lucinda Roanoke and Mrs Carbuncle. ("Look north at the wing" reminds me of "Gaze north toward the isle" in the previous verse. Is Kitty Hawk actually visible from Roanoke?)

i believe it is whiterabbit. i like the curtain part, for the stage curtain maybe, still like an exit or entrance somewhere for this one the rich dr. makes me think of the dr erastus wolcott at lake park milwaukee, where there is a golf course also

(I think I've officially abandoned the descendants now, though I'm still open-minded about the ancestors. Several of these casque theories seem about 95% there, but falter at the final hurdle without a satisfactory interpretation of the final instructions...very exasperating.)

lol, i  can't quite leave them be, but i try. i think they do "obscurely"  show what is around the park or near

forest_blight wrote:: I really wish I could remember where that patch of garden was located, but I think it is near where the path leads from the main part of the Garden to the Gazebo, which overlooks the sound toward Kitty Hawk (a path beckons). Unknown: In April 1981, an authentic 16th century gazebo was constructed with period tools, using period techniques. The octagonal structure overlooks the Roanoke and Currituck Sounds, very possibly the site where Sir Richard Grenville, Walter Raleigh's cousin, first set foot in 1585 with a fleet of seven ships and 108 men. The gazebo was made with massive hand-hewn oak posts and beams locked together without the modern nail. Wattle and daub was applied on the exterior of the five bays, leaving 3 bays open to the expanse of water for visitors to view the Wright Memorial, which stands at the site of man's first flight, and Jockey's Ridge, the highest sand dunes in the Eastern United States. A thatched roof was necessary for the finishing touch to the period structure. Two problems: how to obtain thatching material and where to obtain a master thatcher. Mrs. W. Marion Odom, Chairman of the Board of Governors, learned of Peter Slevin from Donegal, Ireland. Mr. Slevin had thatched the Ann Hathaway cottage in Stratford in the late fifties and also thatched many of the roofs in PBS's Scarlett Letter in 1980. Mrs. Odom contacted Mr. Slevin at Plimoth Plantation where he lived and worked to advise the Board about the Old World craft of thatching with straw. Slevin advised that many thatchers consider Norfolk reed, Phrangmites communis, as Britain's finest native grass for thatching. Contact was made with a reed farmer in Olde Buckeham, Norfolk, England, and 1100 bundles of the reed were cut in February 1981, tied into 24-inch bundles, and shipped to the Gardens. Brainstorming Roanoke... "In England, the erstwhile high-honored court of the the Fairy Queen was now much diminished. Her Majesty, Queen Mab Herself, and many of Her subjects, Pixies, Hobgoblins and Boggarts alike, had shrunk to tiny size... ...Robin and the Pixies of Britain gave lessons in archery to the Catawba braves" W hich may be last touched O r first seen standing L ook north at the wing Thinking about this erstwhile high / diminished / tiny / low theme, and wondering about the Sunken Garden in Roanoke's Elizabethan Gardens. "This square area consists of 32 parterres outlined in clipped dwarf yaupon" Yaupon is Ilex Vomitoria , associated with Black Drink which was held in an "Emperor Crown" whelk. It is "an important food for the American Robin". The garnet - an ilex berry in an emperor's crown... The image 3 figure may represent Janus . (January comes from Janus, and he is shown holding two keys like image 3). Janus is the son of Apollo (god of archery). There's a statue of Apollo in the sunken garden. The cross within the circle might represent this orb from the Elizabethan Gardens sign: On the archery theme, this shape always reminded me of a crossbow. One of the people behind the Elizabethan Gardens was Mrs Inglis Fletcher (meaning "arrowmaker", from fleche/arrow). hxxp://www.elizabethangardens.org/detailedhistory.pdf As mentioned before, it's the plaque bearing the inscription by Fletcher at the entrance to the Elizabethan Gardens that talks about the "dark forest". The garnet is right by this "crossbow". An arrowhead? Maybe on a sign? Flint arrowheads are known as Elf arrows or "Pixie arrows". Maybe this shows the gem on a path running beside the garden. "Leaving the Sunken Garden to the north is the overlook terrace and a path leading to the overlook of Roanoke Sound. Here in April of 1981, an authentic 16th century gazebo was constructed with period tools, using period techniques. The octagonal structure of the gazebo is situated at a site overlooking the Roanoke and Currituck Sounds, very possibly the spot were Sir Richard Grenville, Walter Raleigh’s cousin, first set foot in 1585 upon his arrival with a fleet of seven ships and 108 men." The gazebo: Dark forest Where white is in colour It's octagonal. The dots on the left side of the mask indicate a hexagon, while the eight bumps to their left, or the eight vertices suggested on the right, are enough to make an octagon. With two maps After circle and square The map of the Elizabethan Gardens I referenced before puts the gazebo at 17. (Someone who visited the place posted a link to it somewhere on the forum.) Dunno if the gazebo was 17 back in BPs day, but it would fit quite well. 15 = circle (the fifteenth letter, "O") 16 = square (the square of 4) 17 = gazebo Look north at the wing "Look" -> "Gaze". Gazebo comes from gaze. (cf "gaze north" in the previous verse.) hxxp://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=gazebo Has someone taken a close look at this thing...? Wonder if there are any signs with arrowheads here.

I was playing around with this image to see if I could get something that might give a clue to a location near the water gate. If you chop it about like this, several parts seem to line up quite well. Coincidence...? Might expect to find some kind of Nixon/Watergate tie-in somewhere. First seen standing might be "gait".

We'll be doing a new trip out there in the next month to get some picks and new perspective. There are some paths just outside the gardens, I went there hunting another time for another puzzle (another story). Anyway, the camera will be ready and the notebook close at hand. We'll jet around and over to Jockey Ridge and the WB Memorial across the way to get a perspective from there as well. Then, on to SC another weekend. (I have done 3 trips there "looking"). Cheers and Happy Hunting. Domino

TheDomino wrote:: We'll be doing a new trip out there in the next month to get some picks and new perspective. There are some paths just outside the gardens, I went there hunting another time for another puzzle (another story). Anyway, the camera will be ready and the notebook close at hand. We'll jet around and over to Jockey Ridge and the WB Memorial across the way to get a perspective from there as well. Then, on to SC another weekend. (I have done 3 trips there "looking"). I'd appreciate any pictures of gates and gazebos. Are you planning a trip to Charleston...? Let us know before you go. I'm hoping to get someone to snoop round Stella Maris, take some pics, dig up some paths, etc. hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h ... 28#p112328

Has our knight's pedestal been compared to Ms Dare's...? Astronomical trivia: sculpted in 1859, date of the most powerful solar storm in recorded history. Floral trivia: carnation is from coronation, and the Elizabethan Gardens were founded on a date chosen to mark the anniversary of the coronation of Elizabeth II. "In England, the erstwhile high-honoured court of the Fairy Queen was now much diminished. Her Majesty, Mab Herself..." (Wonder if Mab holds any clues.)

this is great thedomino!  are you taking a shovel too? seems to me the verse is leading you from the gardens to the lost colony theater and i think virginia dare is toward the theatre. besides the gates front and back and benches and seats (that we all like)  i was thinking maybe..........virginia dare was the "last touched or first seen standing" , because she was just a baby and this statue has her grown up (and standing) and in the book "shrunk to tiny size".(dare),  "right gladly" and "right swiftly" could be the wright brothers, but "all that company"  could be "the lost colony" or i guess a visitor's sign "diminished" could be "shrunk" or "close" (an exit) "coast" all that stuff is in the museum (armor, struts and stuff) robin was exiled to Sherwood....exiled=cast "out"......driven "out",  turn "out"..........outside the gardens i think, or outer banks? "court" can mean "square" or "bench" (the erstwhile high-honored court was now much diminished () the image looks like chief wingina but i guess it could be the boat (lost colony) oh, the "pedestal" at the bottom could mean "base", like the "lost colony" fort "haven in the west"----------haven can be shelter, pier, dock, harbor just wanted to throw out these thoughts, maybe they will help when you are there seems there was something about well known paths... the bells (albert bell, skipper bell? built the theater) and keys (the outer banks) are a mystery, but maybe you'll see something and maybe it's really "tiny" maybe the bell clonker is a gravestone hxxp://history.howstuffworks.com/americ ... colony.htm can't wait to see your pictures!  and your thoughts! thanks for keeping us involved!

slappybuns wrote:: "right gladly" and "right swiftly" could be the wright brothers Yep, I thought the same. Re: "In December", someone recently pointed out that December 17 is Wright Brothers Day. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wright_Brothers_Day (This could also be another confirmer for the Gazebo at No. 17 on the map if the same numbering was in use then.)

i haven't really gone back and looked at everything from the map or the threads i found it strange that court could mean square, and just found out circle could mean amphitheater ........and crown and belt and girdle and bell shaped (her dress) (same as garter?) : ( i was hoping it was like after the gardens and after the theatre......... the gazebo would be a good shelter, wonder if it was new in 1980  (the book said new haven) and then the word "seen"...could be "scene"..........i know most of this is rehashing, but wanna keep it fresh for thedomino

slappybuns wrote:: wonder if it was new in 1980  (the book said new haven) Unknown: and then the word "seen"...could be "scene" Yep, constructed April 1981. hxxp://www.elizabethangardens.org/detailedhistory.pdf I'd like to get hold of a copy of the script. (Apparently Fletcher's line on the entrance plaque about "From this hallowed ground they walked away through the dark forest" is in the play, so the path could actually lead away from the stage for all we know. I doubt it, but who knows what clues are hiding in there. Something standing in the 1st scene maybe.) Under that Which may be last touched Or first seen standing Did I mention "that" + last "touch" = "thatch" (Gazebo has a thatched roof), first seen standing before it's cut...? OK, that's a bit of a stretch. 😉 You previously suggested a shoe, and I think the intro mentions cobblers, who use a "last" - so it would fit "last touched" also.

lol, i don't remember talking about a shoe, but that doesn't mean i didn't :/ .........but that's funny for some reason, i keep thinking of sole and soul, and it had something to do with "dream" but can't remember what i was thinking about

if the spoon and pea is for pea island, then a diagonal line from there to the jewel.......looks like it's about at the lindsay warren visitor center  (see, just like image 6, spanish, "all that company"......visitors but maybe someone could figure out the angle, maybe closer to virginia dare, or straight to the gate but still like chief wingina somewhere, "l ook north at the wing and dig (wingina)--to ACHIEVE- to A CHIEF and our nags head guy is spread eagled like that: hxxp://www.outerbanks.com/lostcolony/history/ or wherever you would have to be to see the chief to be looking north?  or up?  toward him? so maybe that stylus devil is important as he is an american native fairy..... but it say's "it's impossible to sight one"........but maybe you can hear him?  the soundboards behind the seats at the lost colony? i guess he could be showing a boat mast? k, from pea island to the bells (marker is around the lost colony) you then go left toward the jewel, which since the guy has all the stuff from the museum, that's about where you would be, so maybe the chief wingina is somewhere around there (in between the theater and the museum) the bugbears are from england and the line says "timber wolves are every bit afraid of you as mountain lions are".....so in the woods there? from the lost colony to the museum? the indian chief was called a weroan "INTO the outdoors" "the trail is clearly marked.................so maybe just behind the sign? (fort raleigh sign) this marker has virginia dare, chief manteo and "new" fort on it: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/graceycat/140155460/ which is in the woods between the museum and the lost colony too so maybe its in the fort raleigh national historic site: hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WMQF ... toric_Site that sign does have the crests on them, and it's a fort (the pedestal could just mean "base" ) "a path beckons to mica and driftwood"----Waterside Theater not sure if that is where the thomas hariot nature trail is L. micare  "to flash, glitter"),----------mica?  stars, movie stars?, or just toward the beach

Maybe I just don't like change but I am still very fond of this area of E Gardens as our site:

fox wrote:: I am still very fond of this area of E Gardens as our site Yep, definitely. I'd like to get some pics of this gate and its surroundings from the other side. Re: the Janus theory for this image...(Roman god of  gateways, origin of "January", the month for the image, holds two keys like the knight)...I just came across some stuff about "Janus Gates". The Gates of Janus (within the Temple of Janus ) were closed in peacetime and opened in wartime. To find the keys is your reward For Fairy, peace the real accord (Real accord...reel of cord...? Still trying to find some hint that might pinpoint the spot.)

fox, you don't think someone has dug by those gates by now? and the bench? or no one has???!!!  thedomino have you tried there? i've been thinking more to the stage.  our tinman looks like he has a spotlight on him, or maybe wherever the spotlight comes from. whiterabbit!  i had been  thinking maybe the keys (besides the cays) and bells weren't important but the strings holding them also!  and i hadn' t remembered that part about the "real accord"!   maybe wingina, or the stage curtain or boat rope or the ropes hanging from the boat , since it could be a boat shape from the tinman. maybe where they tie the boat up? i like that!  (but in the book, that part is talking about all the jewels 🙁  ) or, maybe where they show a movie..............seems someone said that on the tinman, there were parts that went to a projector,but i don't remember who said it, i thought the tinman just had parts on him from the museum,  but it could  be from up the hill from the stage where the spotlight is? ? i think the boat is tied up to the right of the stage, so you would have to look up or north at the wing (of the theater) or maybe it's tied up right behind the theater, then it could be tied up right in the back middle of the stage? and i think that is a stage curtain behind the tinman since i can't upload anything, the curtain is in the window part on both sides, looks like some kind of molding, but i think it's the stage curtain pushed to the sides this guy tells about behind the scenes of the lost colony: hxxp://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/page/382 maybe his bust is like the pedestal? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/gtstuff/46 ... otostream/ or the rock wall in the image like in front of the stage: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/gtstuff/461741094/ i think i remember now why i was thinking of soul or sole, i think it was the riddle part (first SEEN standing) you know your shoe 🙂 but, in the first SCENE , wouldn't the BOAT be in the first SCENE ?? !! !! !! !! !! LOOK GUYS!!!!!!!!!!!!! !! !! !! !! > The first scene shot for the film is in fact the last scene in the film hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/User:David ... ost_Colony ummmm  well, maybe that film is showed somewhere but still, makes sense for WHATEVER is in the first scene  ;D in this image, looks like strings , but also, maybe that isn't the curtain from the stage (the molding), but the big fence hiding the boat hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/dong0r/3850984964/ thanks for the photos dongOr! i like the plaque that has "newe" cottages on it too (new haven) and Raleigh hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/dong0r/385 ... otostream/ because surely Raleigh is in the first scene and maybe Queen Elizabeth?? or the historian?  from that website i posted the historian is the first to talk, but that doesn't mean he is scene 1.. he was to the left of the main part of the stage hxxp://www.uncpress.unc.edu/browse/page/382 "The first consequential change in the deployment of the Historian occurred in the mid-1960s, when the cubicle was done away with and the Historian became mobile. Stage directions in a text from 1980 suggest what audiences saw during those years: "(light) comes up at the front of the center stage to disclose the historian of the occasion who stands illuminated in a circle of light. He is a kindly, elderly man, dressed in a scholar's dark robe and carries a ledger book. . . . He opens his book, glances at it and closes it. Addressing the audience: 'In the time of Queen Elizabeth the First . . .'" (1980, pp. 1-3). This is the way the Historian was handled for about three decades. Some years his costume was the scholar's.....Whatever his costume and props, he delivered his lines from the sloping front of the stage (center, left, or right). " would u call him the first scene?? or the fireworks? "Weather even determines the kind of FIREWORKS display the audience sees. It can be spectacular, with a quarter of a minute of booms, bangs, and whistling sizzles as rockets streak into the night sky and burst into plumes and pinwheels and globes of colored blazes that drift gently down before some of them explode again and broaden the beautiful shower. The display comes in the FIRST ACT as the Queen entertains the common people of England (and the play entertains children in the audience and adults like me). But if you are sitting in the audience some night and feel a pretty good breeze in your face, you can forget about the A-1 version of the display. " "On the back side of the stage is a PIER extending maybe a hundred feet into Roanoke Sound, and fireworks take off from the end of the pier out over the water." so does this mean the Queen ?  but not sure if raleigh is with her and do they show fireworks at the end or is it the STAGE itself?: "The end came as "Stand by L Q--140. (Pause.) 140--go." " this picture (p. 3)  looks like the cracks in the wall in the image : hxxp://www.ncmuseumofhistory.org/collat ... y.play.pdf shakespeare was in Act 1, scene 4: hxxp://books.google.com/books?id=CXvZJC ... ay&f=false if you look inside the book, the first pages,  it says Scene 1 is the prologue, which is just the narrator on the STAGE, right? strings hanging: hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j8gFyPhLuB0 hxxp://www.southernliving.com/travel/sl ... page3.html

if you flip this image vertically, and look at the oval shape (spotlighted part) over the skirt now, the one skirt shadow looks like one of the huts on the stage, and the flat piece on  the round pedestal shows the skyline and tree line like in this image: hxxp://www.sailblogs.com/member/colehor ... sgID=96816

Hey Slappy - re: the bench... ...I was flipping through the intro... "Robin and the Pixies of Britain gave lessons in archery to the Catawba braves, who passed their skill in bowmanship along to the neighbouring Cherokee" The archery stuff ties in with Fletcher, and the Chero kee jumped out at me. Cherokee / Chair Key...? Re: that which is last touched or first seen standing, maybe it's "bottom"; last part you get to, first seen when you stand up. In other words, you're sitting on it; it's under a bench. Interesting to get a better shot of that one. (The overall image shows someone supported on stone, rather than on their legs.) Seems to be this kind of general shape.

i like that "cher o kee"  whiterabbit ,  it would tie in north carolina with the image with the "keys",  that's good your 'bottom", lol.............that's better than the riddle it reminds me of, but it was your "lap"......that disappears when you stand up but if anyone hasn't dug by that bench or that gate, then we don't have any hunters, because they have brought it up since before i started looking at this hunt, probably since they started this website. back in the olden days when forest was still a hunter............... just kidding forest!

Hey everyone... happy solstice time and welcome to summer... Slappy... you actually bring up a good point... I've been offline for a while, but I try to catch up on posts occasionally...but I don't seem to see posts about "Hunting". Who is actually hunting?  Who is out there with a metal rod or shovel, poking around or digging? All the speculation in the world means nothing if someone is not actually poking and/or digging. It is unlikely that I will be able to travel any time soon, but I seriously wish I could go to NY or NO and put a shovel in the ground.

...yeah, the first thing Slappy asked me when I signed up is: "Are you a hunter?" Now I can see why. As soon as The Ultimate Quest has ground to an end, I'm going on a recruiting drive.  😉

Within the next three weeks, I plan on taking a trip to OBX. I am only an hour and a half away. Has anybody poked around in these gardens yet... near the water gate? I see where several have mentioned doing so, but can't find any evidence of it actually happening. If not, let me know and I can surely stop by the gardens for a day and do a little sleuthin' and photoggin'.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Within the next three weeks, I plan on taking a trip to OBX. I am only an hour and a half away. Has anybody poked around in these gardens yet... near the water gate? I see where several have mentioned doing so, but can't find any evidence of it actually happening. If not, let me know and I can surely stop by the gardens for a day and do a little sleuthin' and photoggin'. (Hey, great stuff Hirudiniforme...must surely be nearby. I'd like to see some more pics near those gates...seems to be one location just about everyone can agree on. It would be interesting to get some pics from/of the other side, and some info about contemporary maps of the grounds.)

You've got me puzzling over V11 again now. ...first seen standing Look north at the wing And dig First of seen and standing is S Sand dig Cross-reference with: "Embedded in the sand" Last touched...salt touched..."Last touched or first seen"...dors / doors... OK, it sucks.  😛 I want to find some link with the scandal.

Hirudiniforme, I did some scouting and photographing there a few years ago. It was a great trip and it really helped. Pay close attention to the nature trail near Fort Raleigh, especially near the beach. My best advice, only three words: TAKE MOSQUITO REPELLANT .

And also take a backhoe, a la wilhouse , and dig up that entire area by the bench and water gate.  It is there darn it....let's find it.

It's a key that's buried, so perhaps the position of the casque is represented by one of the keys in the pic. These might be seen as either side of the gate, which is represented in the image by the arch and pillars. I'm wondering, by the fence...? (I'm still a bit dubious about casques being buried within the grounds of private attractions with an admission fee, so I'd like to consider the beach side of the gate as well as in the inside. I've never seen a picture of that.)

Just keep in mind that digging inside the gate would require permission from the owners, which would be pretty much impossible to get without a solid reason, and digging outside the gate is a federal crime.

Wright Bros...right orbs...left orbs...

forest_blight wrote:: digging outside the gate is a federal crime So is this a special area for some reason...?

It's one of the most historic stretches of beach in the Americas, very archaeologically important and vulnerable to erosion. Expect a huge fine if they catch you with a shovel.

Then inside the gates it is

Except that the image is pointing to the Left  OUTSIDE the image border... which may imply outside the park confines or outside the gate...

The northern path leading to the Water Gate is lined with spoon yucca. Of course, so is my yard, as well as my neighbors, and many of the beaches here in NC.

Interesting to look at mirror of image 3 along the plumb-bob line. un skewed, rotated, or altered. the plum-bob string isn't straight, but it meets at the tip of the plummet when you mirror using a straight line starting from the plummet's tip going up. MOST unlikely - as this method has already been discussed - but fun to see this leaves the plummet directly under the key hole/lock(?) that seems to fit the keys above. How bout directly under the lock on the gate... wouldn't that be a blast.

I am new here, but will post my 2 cents worth and see where it goes. I have been stumbling around, until I found this site, going from Image to Image, focusing on St Louis, where I live, but ONE post on here got me looking, and that regarded the guy who developed the parks in Chicago and Cleveland, and guess what, while researching him and his developments, I am fairly certain I have stumbled across the correct Image for St Louis and it is image 3. Looking at the area in the "Tin Mans" stomach, this IDENTICALLY lines up with the entrance into Washington University, look it up on Google earth. It is at the NW corner of Forest Park. Going from Skinker to the entrance is an exact match for the representation in the image, AND the sports team logo is a BEAR, which is what I think the face on this image represents. I think this is a pretty positive hit for this image, and having read through ALL the postings, I noticed that St Louis HAD been mentioned as a candidate for this image. The color featured in whatever is pictured below the waist area also matches the main color for their sports team. The SAME guy that did the Chicago and Cleveland Parks also did College Campus's. I know that from reading the posts that the Author had indicated that there was a casque buried here, and if the Developer is a link, then that makes connections. Now the bells might represent towers, I am not sure. I have spent most of the day online researching this, and Google earth has been somewhat helpful, but I am wanting to see inside the perimeter, and so will have to plan a trip next weekend to have a look around. The supports on his arms look similar to some of the walkways as seen from Google Earth, and looking at the Football Field complex, if this links with verse 2, then I think I can count 16 rows in the bleachers, and it is looking right onto a football, with standard markings on the sidelines every 10 yards up to 50, from both ends, which might also relate to the phrase "In the middle of 21 From end to end" I have been playing around with the rest of verse 2 in the context of this location. Any help would be appreciated.

I see you finally got in. I thought you were considering another image for St. Louis?

Changed my mind after reading all the great info here. And a lucky thing, also, as I am now on to the correct image and verse for St Louis, and I DO know where it is. Hopefully a retrieval is in short order, but if not I will at least supply photos of the pole, and location of the St Louis Casque.

Just for the record, i want to say i cant help with this image, my mind just goes blank every time i try to consider it.  Good luck Kevin.  I hope you find and that it would help bring us closure to the next casque.

I am in the process of trying to obtain permission to retrieve the casque now, if it is still there. It turns out that the city allows metal detectors, but no digging in the city parks, and I was bummed when I got that reply, but it turns out that my boss is friends with the city parks director, and he said he would contact him, tell him the story, and ask him to contact me to get the story from me, and then see what happens. He said the guy is of the type that just might go along with it and give me access. I told him I wasn't going to risk my retirement and my wifes job over this, and so wanted to try to get legal access to attempt to retrieve it, and I am thinking, since I also work for the county, that with regs for safety and so forth, that they probably won't allow me to dig, but might just have a parks employee on hand to do the digging. That would be sweet.....I show them were to dig, and get the prize, and they do the digging.  I will see.....but I am fairly certain, unless someone else has already been there, that I have the correct location.

"A path beckons / To mica and driftwood" There are various Roanoke road names that might tie in with the lines in this verse - eg John White Blvd, Forest Ave, Driftwood Rd... There are actually three Driftwoods - Rd, Dr and St, all connected and running alongside the airport. The English section in the introduction talks about Robin and Sherwood, and Sherwood Drive isn't far away. I was wondering whether, despite the undoubted references to the Elizabethan Gardens, the Wright Bros, etc., the clues might lead to a more accessible location south of the airport ("Look North at the wing"). The airport includes a small aviation museum with a Wright Bros model... hxxp://www.co.dare.nc.us/airport/Museum/Models.htm Re: After circle and square in July and August...July and August are 7th and 8th months. Letters 7 and 8 are G and H. Image 1 includes all these elements together, which might be a coincidence, a red herring, or possibly shed light on the interpretation... "U" is in July and August, and follows "T" which is a square (T Square) - doesn't account for the circle though. Perhaps the photos in the museum might shed light on the image. (Flying helmet...?) [img]hxxp://www.co.dare.nc.us/airport/Museum/images/Students[1].jpg[/img]

I've just given this thread one good pass and it just confuses me to no end.  Before I forget or go on, I just want to convey some immediate thoughts that might gel with someone. The spoon and pea: could it be a spoonerism hint?  Or is it a clue about a launch point, or catapult mechanism? Some kind of tower siege device...I am just reminded of my boyhood dinner table medieval war games...

Together with Verse 11, there are strong leads for Roanoke, so the possible pea references include "pea island" just to the south. The trail seems to involve the Elizabethan Gardens, though the two found casques were in public parks, and I'm slightly averse to the idea of BP burying anything actually within the private grounds of a ticketed attraction. I was thinking again about this verse recently. Here's a recap on how I currently see it. Pass two friends of octave In December The Wright Brothers, friends of Octave Chanute. Dec 17th is Wright Brothers Day. Ride the man of oz To the land near the window The Baum ferry to Roanoke, the outline of which is shown by the window in this image. There's a road that leads to Dark forest “Walked away through the dark forest into history” appears on a sign at the Elizabethan Gardens. It's a line from the play "The Lost Colony" by Paul Green, played at Roanoke's Waterside Theatre near the gardens. Where white is in color John White is one of the characters in the play. I suppose you could say that White is in Green. With two maps Dunno. After circle and square In July and August A sign talks about the play performed each summer...dunno what the circle and square are. The bells in this image seem to have a circle and a square on them. The theatre includes the "Producer's Circle". A path beckons To mica and driftwood The Water Gate has been suggested for this, leading onto the beach. Under that Which may be last touched Or first seen standing This is a mystery...keep thinking "gate" - last thing touched before you leave the gardens, "gait" - manner of walking. Also wondered about what might be in the "first scene" in the play. Look north at the wing And dig To achieve By dauntless and inconquerable Determination Your goal. North of here you're looking towards the Wright Brothers' wing-like memorial at Kitty Hawk with its matching quote about "dauntless resolution and unconquerable faith". The character seems to draw on elements possibly including the suit of armour and Virginia Dare's plinth at the Elizabethan Gardens, with a wing-like depiction of the character's arms. There's plenty of unexplained details though. I'd like to get hold of a copy of the play, which has a familiar-looking figure on the cover... hxxp://www.learnnc.org/lp/media/uploads ... 1937lg.jpg I was recently wondering about this spot... "Dauntless and inconquerable" sounds daring. This is the end of Dare Ave, named for Virginia Dare whose plinth we might see in the pic... ...near John White Blvd. Can't really explore this shoreline on Google though. The darn thing can't be far away.

I am currently running away from this one...it looks like ideas are just hovering around a consistent zone of interpretation, nice visuals too...the literary references look sweet as peas.  Not in, but just along a path from the Elizabethan Gardens looks perfect combined with a not too distant airstrip for a directional.  Looks like folks have landed their feet on this area but not otten further than the Garden Gate.  Oh, where has 30 years of shifting surroundings taken this one??  Was there an air traffic tower at one time thats been demolished or relocated?  Anything more point related?  Sux that it is described as a sandy location.  Sand changes so much over short periods....okay, im off in other directions...still not sure if two different casques might be bumping together in close proximity to another...nothing to rule that out right?

erexere wrote:: It looks like ideas are just hovering around a consistent zone of interpretation. (Don't mean to put you off erexere...I think it's one of those where most folks would agree on the general area, but it will take a splash of inspiration to nail it.)

Here is a splash of inspiration: "A Pea" = "uh-pee" or "U" "P" or "near a bathroom facility"

erexere wrote:: Here is a splash of inspiration: "A Pea" = "uh-pee" or "U" "P" or "near a bathroom facility" Ahh, yes... this may be a confirmer for my theory, which I have already taken a step further: "A pea on a spoon" = uh peein' an' uh pooin' This could tie in with the sicknesses that "ran" through the settlers or Roanoke Island. Does anybody have a shovel, I smell a casque... wait a minute... that's not a casque I smell!

Potty humor isn't anything new...The Clock Without a Face is hunt I've been working on and it really is about toilets...along with T.S. Eliot references.

Catapults (taking from the pea on the spoon idea) are used to assist aircraft launching.  The first flight near Kitty Hawk used a track ramp type catapult on a Kill Devil hill to assist.  So, I bet the stone tower at First Flight is to be aligned with a specific spot.

I see now that the spoon might only be there to illustrate that a small circular object is most likely a Pea.  This mostly confirms idea that Pea Island is in the vicinity. I wonder if the bright star with halo around it is a supernova.  Also in the Rodanthe vicinity is a town named Avon, or "nova" backwards.

There's this spot where a telephone pole sits on the edge of Blackmar Gut bay.  From this perspective you can see a water tower that looks a lot like that mace jutting up from the armor's arm.  See it just around the center of the image (sorry for the poor quality), followed by a flickr closeup of what it looks like. This life saving station has an interesting look, hxxp://beachbum.homestead.com/files/Lif ... tation.JPG Chicamacomico is very "mica" sounding. The station uses a loga of a life preserver with a boat oar crossed with a barbed harpoon that looks a lot like the scythe on the arm.

I feel like I might be close.  Finding the bell an figuring out the locations of everything nearby that fits surprisingly well with the image makes it look tempting. It's hard to see, but the pink line identifies a possible match with the inside curve of the scythe and the overall shape of the area containing the telephone pole above.  The red circle is the location of the boathouse which I think is the primary inspiration for this image.  There is a second green star marking a second pole as a possibility, notice it is in the background of the boathouse, which is actually a "watch" pole.  Also, Blackmar Gut has the same shape as the hanging key.

looks really promising.

I am eager about this one, too bad I'm on the opposite coast in Oregon.  I'll start the process of networking to see if anyone has the huevos enough to tote a shovel and trip it down the Banks. After a good night sleep I am preferring the telephone pole on the west side more than the watch pole on the east side.  The image has a north like perspective even though it has eastward perspectives where two or three objects are concerned.  The big belly fairy and the large hanging key ring and the lines of string or wire more indicate the telephone pole.

maltedfalcon wrote:: looks really promising. while, personally, i don't think this is the path, the images and locations are quite nice. i just noticed 16th of August Ct. In July and August ? wonder what year that street popped up... that posted conversation in an adjacent thread about google, pictures, and local libraries is painfully true.

I'm venturing a guess that BP took one of these guided tours, hxxp://www.historicalbemarletour.org/About_Hat.htm Note, HAT was established in 1975.

I've wondered whether the struts represented some of the many wooden beams at the Lost Colony Theatre... Where white is in colour I'm sure this is "where White is in Green", referring to the character White in their Paul Green play. Maybe the pea suggests "pea (P) green". There's isn't much white and green in the image, but they're shown together in the flower. There's a road that leads to Dark forest The line “walked away through the dark forest into history” which appears on the sign is from the play. Under that which may be last touched Or first seen standing I suspect this is another reference to the play, and some connection in the first and last scene - maybe a reference to beach/sand/dune, or a tree, or something. Nearly ordered a copy just now but it's at least a tenner secondhand, so I'll check out the clips on YouTube first. I think the book references the Elizabethan Gardens as well as the theatre, though considering the verse again, it seems closer to the theatre than the gardens to me. I still like the water gate - in fact I just wrote to them again asking if they have any pics of it from the other side - but if digging there is out of the question as Forest seems to think, I'm still interested in the alternative possibility of "look north at the wing" as a cryptic hint for the theatre/wing.

I think this one might need a change of perspective. Eg, the column could be a staircase leading up to an entrance... ...or the floor could be a wall. (Maybe that unidentified blob is the casque at the foot of a column, with the spoon as a digging clue.) Since the right key is next to the Roanoke map... Perhaps the shape beside the left one also has a particular significance. Considering the various cross/tombstone suggestions... I wondered if this "key" shape might be a partial view down at a tombstone.

forest_blight wrote:: ...the 1896 Fort Raleigh marker, which contains the phrase "On this site in July - August 1585..." in its first line. And look, here's a path beside the 1896 marker, beckoning. This is the path that leads to the theatre, the Hariot trail, and Fort Raleigh. Unknown: On this site, in July – August, 1585 (O.S.), colonists, sent out from England by Sir Walter Raleigh, built a fort, called by them “The New Fort in Virginia” These colonists were the first settlers of the English race in America. They returned to England in July, 1586, with Sir Francis Drake. Near this place was born, on the 18th of August, 1587, Virginia Dare, the first child of English Parents born in America – daughter of Ananias Dare and Eleanor White, his wife, members of another band of colonists sent out by Sir Walter Raleigh in 1587. On Sunday, August 20, 1587, Virginia Dare was baptized. Manteo, the friendly Chief of the Hatteras Indians had been baptized on the Sunday preceding. These baptisms are the first known celebrations of a Christian Sacrament in the territory of the thirteen original United States. [Monument reverse]: In memory, too, of our founder and first president, Edward Graham Daves. Erected by the Roanoke Colony Memorial Assoc’n, Nov. 24, 1896. Graham Daves, President John S. Bassett, Sec’ty & Treas. It also reminds me of: Taking "the wing" as a cryptic hint for the theatre, which also has wings, it's interesting that the theatre is due north of the marker. The armoured figure might be a character in the play, with his aeroplane-pose reinforcing the connection. I'm starting to wonder if this area with the marker could actually be the spot. The inscription reads: hxxp://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=9460 "Colonists from England" fits the book's storyline. It also references White, and Virginia Dare, signalled in the image via her pedestal... This was at the old entrance to Fort Raleigh. Here's another of those possible "with two maps" boards, at Fort Raleigh... Alternatively, the visitor centre at Fort Raleigh has watercolours by White, including maps... Raleigh in armour... Wing of a building / gallery...? Naturally it's the Wright memorial, but maybe something else as well. I wonder if "mica and driftwood" might be references to something round here. Here's a PDF summary: Roanoke theory (I'll see if I can get hold of anyone at Fort Raleigh. No luck getting a response from the Elizabethan Gardens or Lost Colony Theatre.)

Unknown: This is a map of the Fort Raleigh NHS as it was in 1982. The red arrow at bottom indicates the park entrance road. It leads to a traffic circle and then a square shaped parking lot. This may be the "After circle and square" referenced in the verse. #1 indicates the location of a Way Side Sign with two maps on it. One of Fort Raleigh, the other James Town. This sign may be the "With two maps" line in the verse. The "In July and August" line, in the verse, has been linked to a monument to Virginia Dare placed in 1896 (#2 on this map). However, the monument is currently at #3 on the map. Furthermore, it may have been in another location in 1982. (More work to do here.) It seems to me that if one entered the "Dark forest" via the park entance; and after passing through the traffic "circle" and parking in the "square" parking area; "A path beckons" in the northwest corner of the lot. Where after a few yards of walking the "two maps" are found. Perhaps this is the route "To mica and driftwood". I recently got in contact with a volunteer at Fort Raleigh (hi!) who's interested in looking for the casque, and I noticed he's been updating the Wiki...

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I recently got in contact with a volunteer at Fort Raleigh (hi!) who's interested in looking for the casque, and I noticed he's been updating the Wiki... I noted what looks like a pallisade with a cross above it. (See photo) Has anyone explored the connection to the pallisade that is around the Waterside Theater? I noticed an interesting alignment bettween the wing, two maps and July-Auguast. They seem to line up with the theater pallisade just west of that line. The image seems to have points like a pallisade. The cross might connect to the tall lighting tower? You know...Last touched first seen... by the sun rising and setting? Any thoughts?

In Rodanthe there is a dock with little braces like those under the arms and pulleys and ropes hanging from it for what looks like assisting in moving freight.  The telephone pole nearby marked with the red circle is where I believe digging needs to happen.  Careful though, it has a bit of a lean.

great show me a picture of this doc in 1981.

maltedfalcon wrote:: great show me a picture of this doc in 1981. The dock is recent.  I think the lift was anchored to a different spot before.  Very hard to find photos of this area.

i found a 1982 sat img of fort R,and a 2007,they are so so,the diffs look small to me would like to find a really good close up detailed aerial i tried to enlrg the 07,it distorts to much view hxxp://tinyurl.com/76kbjr8 found it here hxxp://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/

cw0909 wrote:: i found a 1982 sat img of fort R,and a 2007,they are so so,the diffs look small to me would like to find a really good close up detailed aerial i tried to enlrg the 07,it distorts to much view hxxp://tinyurl.com/76kbjr8 found it here hxxp://earthexplorer.usgs.gov/ You are corrct in that the diffs are very small and it is hard to draw any conclutions from this comparison. I am busy looking through the Museum Resource Center here at Fort Raligh. I am looking for photographs and documants that might help us to see the area as it was in 1981/2 in hope to identify that key feature that leads to the right spot. More news to follow as I dig. So far no luck at all. However, there are thousands of photos and doucments to look through.

I think its buried under this bench in the center of this image.  This is the spot at the end of Myrna Peters road in Rodanthe.  Originally i thought it would be buried next to the telephone pole.  I never thought of looking for a bench, but then maltenfalcon mentioned the "seat" answer to the riddle.  I was surprised to see there is a bench!

which way?

Paul Kitchen wrote:: You are corrct in that the diffs are very small and it is hard to draw any conclutions from this comparison. I am busy looking through the Museum Resource Center here at Fort Raligh. I am looking for photographs and documants that might help us to see the area as it was in 1981/2 in hope to identify that key feature that leads to the right spot. More news to follow as I dig. So far no luck at all. However, there are thousands of photos and doucments to look through. Keep at it. Only through tons and tons of research will these treasures be found.

421Thrasher, I think I understand what you're showing in those pictures. There's a ton of stuff going on with the image, can you go into detail beyond the broad stroke perspective?  Like, what do you make of the spoon (with pea?) shape in the image? I'm thinking it represents the Pea Island area and like the other outline of Roanoke suggests it represents having to pass that area or go to that area to find the casque.  I see both as "pass this area" as you drive south on "December".

erexere wrote:: 421Thrasher, I think I understand what you're showing in those pictures. There's a ton of stuff going on with the image, can you go into detail beyond the broad stroke perspective?  Like, what do you make of the spoon (with pea?) shape in the image? I'm thinking it represents the Pea Island area and like the other outline of Roanoke suggests it represents having to pass that area or go to that area to find the casque.  I see both as "pass this area" as you drive south on "December". I am with you on Pea Island, and add the Bell Islands to my list too. However, I think the verse is very clear that we are not going that far south on 12. Otherwise, you wouldn't be able to "ride the man of oz to the land near the window."

I think the first two lines of verse place us at Kill Devil Hill southbound on hwy12 "december", and then onto a ferry TO Roanoke as the next couple lines tell us.  I think we are then given sufficinent clues to take to the road again and continue south towards Pea and beyond to a place where we take a right turn using the line 'a path beckons' and the image where the right hand of the armor is making a gesture.  We then find a place far south of the "wing", we can look south and see the Chicamacomico water tower, we can look east and see the Chicamacomico Life Saving Station and we can see a bench resting on a the sand.

How do you get a ferry, when the Washington BAUM Bridge is right there? Even stronger links are Land near the window, Dark Forest, white is in color with two maps. and after circle and square Putting you unquestionably in the parking lot of the elizabethan gardens. So from there how do you get to pea island? also considering the Verse is how we get to the treasure site. specifically how does this verse get you to pea island?

I don't recall pointing out this element in similarity between the life saving stations of the Outer Banks and this window outline.  Note where it breaks on either side. I tend to think the first lines instruct us to pass the Wing memorial beacon (Red 1), and we head south and "ride the man of oz"  to a land near the window (Red 2), then we return back to highway 12 and head south til we pass Pea Island refuge (Red 3) and finally find the beckoning path in Rodanthe (Red 4).

hxxp://mathprofhikertnnc.blogspot.com/2012/01/fort-raleigh-national-historic-site.html ...a very descriptive read and gps walking route ( hxxp://www.mappedometer.com/?maproute=142272 ).

I think I may have something... but only if the signs along the thomas hariot nature trail are old enough (e.g., food from greenbriar). i also might be thinking too hard. can anybody confirm either? i've often wondered at the symmetry/asymetry play in the picture, especially in the cuffs. could this be why the "keys" are hanging from the cuffs: hxxp://www.mediafire.com/conv/14e2f7797112d10a81ba378a4d42156b81259bddba1260c8e645e3475a2edb726g.jpg

and just for fun... the railing looking down to the path / the path looking up to the railing:

I strongly feel the perspective size of the ball is relative to the position where the bench in Rodanthe is found at the end of the road to the beach.  I also like the symbolic of a key ring hanging on a hook as a phone clue. A lot of analogous points here, hand, elbow, shoulder-to-shoulder as the body, etc.  And the lines that follow the belt/girdle match the extra set of arms below the hand set supports. The above comparison is the Grand Cross medal which was awarded to the crew of the Chicamacomico Life Saving Station for the Mirlo Rescue, it was reported as a very significant event. I posted this awhile ago already and it's one of the best matches seen in awhile: old fashioned glass insolated wire resistors from a telephone pole.

Some of us are considering the Washington-Baum bridge crossing over to Roanoke. I'm considering the Verse11 line "ride the man of oz".  If Baum is indeed the "bridge", then perhaps we first acknowledge this simple connection between Baum and Oz, but we aren't done.  Next we consider the nautical reference for "the bridge" is also a "lookout" or the more antiquated "crows nest".  These are much like a scarecrow on watch over a field.  The Life Saving Station has one of these on the beach, perhaps that is gist of the Oz reference beyond simply recognizing a local bridge name.  Men using this particular lookout earned the Grand Cross for the Mirlo Rescue according to the Historical Marker nearby. I can't help but think of the meaning behind the scythe on the arm.  Does it translate as Oz' scarecrow made of hay? What of this, an "I" in circle and a larger "I" in a larger circle?  All of this with a window in the background?  Could it translate to "what do we do with a window?  We LOOK OUT of the window with your EYES."

I found a surprising architectural term paralleling the insight I had about the window and the life saving station lookout which closely resembles a scarecrow's armature.  It's uncanny that these under supports to a cornice are also called "strong arms".

erexere wrote:: Some of us are considering the Washington-Baum bridge crossing over to Roanoke... And another one of us is considering the Washington Baum Bridge crossing over to La-La Land. I know my posts get a little wild sometimes, but Wow . Come back to us, Erexere! Come back!

wave = beckon. Maybe a sign like this is near the path that beckons.

Another of First Colony's archaeologists, Nick Luccketti, put the finishing touches on the final report of excavations funded by the Bloedorn Foundation of Washington, DC in the fall of 2006 between the theater parking lot and Roanoke Sound. Shoreline erosion in that area had over time revealed artifacts from the time of the Lost Colony. Several pottery sherds with a green interior glaze datable to the days of Sir Walter Raleigh have been found along the shore a short distance from the theater. - hxxp://www.firstcolonyfoundation.org/archaeology/ lol!

the images are un-resized in the overlay (center). i only slid one image to the left after cutting at the tip of the helmet, and then slid it six pixles down to show the exactness of the match. i noted that the interior of the window does not have any points except for at the tip. it is a smooth line down.

That reminds me of one of these planet illustrations: It's a 3D of a sphere with a corner cut-out that might be visualized as the corner of a cube merging with it.  In 2d it's a square merging with a circle.

Hi everyone, I am back on Roanoke Island for the spring. I am doing volunteer work at Fort Raleigh. Last year I tryed to help out by using my eyes to look into your ideas. no that I am back I will be happy to help in any way I can. I think I might get access to grond penetrating radar this season. So, maybe I can survey a few likely locations. Best regards, Paul

Kitchen in da house!  Welcome back! I have a fair idea that it's in Rodanthe still, but I'm completely willing to rework my ideas.  Should they end up in Roanoke itself I'll make them available asap. I believe the visual clues in the image are worth closer inspection even though they might only be artistic license, we still should expect something to match closely as the wall or columns did in Cleveland. I found the shape of a wave in the shoulder section of the armor, I think that's a good catch.  Inside that shape is a circular O with what looks like a large letter I.  That's much like the big O on the cover of the Baum books, only those contained a large letter Z.  I found a circular sign containing a wave shape at a park area, it is an interesting comparison, i.e. a circle containing the shape of a wave vs. a wave containing the shape of a circle, as an inside out kind of motif used to disguise what can be clearly observed.  Another idea with just the letters is in Oz, the first letter is an O, the last or second letter is a Z, perhaps we are to find some location with a name that starts with the letter O and ends with or has a second letter I.  O...I.  Doesn't seem likely though...what, OCTOPI?  LOL.  Maybe a compound or two word set with the first word being OCEAN second word starts with or ends with I...  Hmm... OCEANS "EYED" =  OCEAN SIDE,  maybe the circled letter I is a clue that we are to look for markers literally on the Ocean side of Highway 12 as opposed to the western Sounds sides. Wow, I like that.  I wonder if I came up with that before, it's been awhile since I went over this verse 11/image 3 pairing. Here's a somewhat random thought, but also Oz related and Ferry related, Emerald Isle is located at 34°40′1″N 77°0′49″W (34.666994, -77.013482), very distant from Roanoke.

I like the comparison including the beecher lines, rigged up to the post. I like how the characteristic gambrel or gothic arch style barn matches the window and the water tower in the background matches the battle mace on the armor's  arm.

I think the outline of a spoon with a little circular pea sized object works in a number of ways.  Two ways I like most, 1. Pea Island comes to mind, an area not to far to the south of Roanoke. 2. Dictionary: To lift, scoop up, or carry with or as if with a spoon. The first line of the verse says pass two friends of an octave and starting wise that puts us at Kill Devil Hills for a reason, which is north and east of Roanoke.  However we regard that outline of Roanoke in the image, we must consider passing Kill Devil Hills either on our way towards Roanoke or from Roanoke.  If we consider the spoon as a clue about Pea Island we should decide how that fits into the process.  Not much else gives us an indication of a specific location other than being at a place where we might look north at the "wing" and if that wing is the Wright Memorial, then we are surely south, near Roanoke. A Wright brother related discovery I found involves the Life Saving Station of Kill Devil Hills.  Those Surfmen were responsible for doing the work required to get the Wright Flyer up on the hill and were present and active in getting it set for it's December first flight.  Other Life Saving Stations were located along the coast, including one at Pea Island. The Beecher Buoy I've recently drawn attention to might also be what the spoon refers to.  It is simply a device used to lift and carry a person to shore.

hxxp://www.lib.unc.edu/ncc/ref/nchistor ... c2004.html Finding no reason to ignore the perfect match of a glass insulator belonging to a telephone pole im still bound to the idea of a post with crossbar (square like in a square-rig mast) as the final focus.  The figure demonstrates the same posture.  I see no reason to focus on a spot beneath a bench. I'm still very interesred in this Christmas oriented Outer Banks tradition where a four legged bull headed creature is described to take part.

This caught my eye... apparently, they are hanging all over the gardens.

I feel like I never saw the watch hanging from the left hand before.  What could it mean, 1:00?

erexere wrote:: What could it mean, 1:00? January -> Garnet -> England Fairies of England proudly bear Garnet, crown-jewel of their Queen

so it looks rather important toconsider the month Stone.

Yeah, I'll have to put together some notes on these verses, they're much neglected...

erexere wrote:: so it looks rather important toconsider the month Stone. as far as I have ever seen the only thing the month helps is for what kind of stone you get if you find the casque. I have not seen it have any bearing on the location of the casque

Unknown: Preiss was a very good poker player, and was not giving out any hints about any of the other locations.  However, he did confirm my theory that the countries of origin of the faeries do connect with the sites. ...but the connection with nationalities is well documented, and made via month -> stone -> litany. It might not have proved particularly useful, but it's there, and BP confirmed it to Egbert. Having established that the litany does play some part in the solutions, I'd hazard a guess that it contains other clues as well.

I'm detecting a hint of Lincoln in everything I look at: Does the man in armor represent a scarecrow?  It can be said the armor is "cover'n the flowers", a wile indeed. (Scarecrow) I could wile away the hours Conferrin' with the flowers Consultin' with the rain And my head I'd be scratchin' While my thoughts were busy hatchin' If I only had a brain I'd unravel any riddle For any individ'le In trouble or in pain (Dorothy) With the thoughts you'd be thinkin' You could be another Lincoln If you only had a brain (Scarecrow) Oh, I would tell you why The ocean's near the shore I could think of things I never thunk before And then I'd sit and think some more I would not be just a nuffin' My head all full of stuffin' My heart all full of pain I would dance and be merry Life would be a ding-a-derry If I only had a brain

hxxp://www.uscg.mil/history/articles/in ... le_men.asp

Elytron.  Greek for "sheath" is the name given to the hard shell section that covers the hindwing of a beetle. In this image we see an armored upper torso that seems to be covering the folds of red fabric that juts out from the base.  With beetles, the wings might drape beyond the shell momentarily during retraction once the elytron are relaxed back into their neutral position. I believe the intention of armor and weapons extending from the arms are indicative of the elytron of a beetle.  I think it works to guide us to the conclusion that "in December" "where white is in color" "with two maps" equates to the December of 1968 when the Beetle's White album held the No.1 position in two charts (a map may be a chart), US and UK.

I've felt very confident in this location, only I couldn't figure out which side of the post to dig on. Side 1 or side 2?  I've never had any idea what to do about the clock in the image, it looks like it reads 1 o'clock.  Looking at the Bouy drill post I see a possible reason for the clock.  Using the illustration I think it points us to side 2.

My contact at the Rodanthe site has bad news.  The post has been relocated closer in shore and a shore wall of 8foot long lumber is an indicator for 6-8 feet of sand movement from past storm surge.  I'm done on this casque search.

erexere wrote:: My contact at the Rodanthe site has bad news.  The post has been relocated closer in shore and a shore wall of 8foot long lumber is an indicator for 6-8 feet of sand movement from past storm surge.  I'm done on this casque search. There's a gang down the road that would be happy to have you

No changing camps for me on this one. I'm confident that I have the right read of this image and verse.  I can't prove it so rather than admit I'm wrong I'll turn my focus to the other locations.  30 years takes it's toll on these sites.  I read that the soil was reworked and the hilltop sculpture was removed temporarily for restoration in Houston, I read that the lot was redone in San Francisco along with additional top soil, I read that the Kosciuszko statue in Milwaukee was removed temporarily for restoration.  I'll just shift those locations to the bottom of my priority list.

Anyone here have a copy of Don Quixote on hand? I picked up a 1957 copy and read several parts.  I can't shake the feeling that it's somehow a reference point for this image and verse 11. It really started to hit home when I saw the Mirlo Beach sign and the words "Dare to dream the impossible dream" welcoming people to Rodanthe. Ahh yes, I remember now, the first sentence I introduces Don Quixote as a scarecrow of a man.  Not too shabby as an Oz type correlation. Another nice connection might be to the 1939 film which has that nice Scarecrow diddy about "you could be another Lincoln...," but more importantly the end of the film reveals Dorothy had been knocked out and had only been dreaming of Oz.  Perhaps Oz is the impossible dream.

I'd be willing to bet Preiss had the song from Don Quixote memorized.  He knew imediately upon seeing the Mirlo Beach sign's "Dare to dream the impossible dream" that he'd find a way to link that site with the Wright Bros. and toss in a reference to John White for the "Dare" reference.  He found the spot he wanted to bury the casque, which was beneath the wing of the Rec Pole.  He then found ways to relate a path leading from the Wright Memorial, passing Roanoke, passing Pea Island, and then landing on a spot near the iconic Chicamacomico water tower and Life Saving Station. I admit I don't understand several parts of the verse, but the gist of it and other parts flow perfectly for me to connect some serious dots. f**k that bench theory.  It's all about the mast of a sinking ship which is initially standing and then last touched as it is committed to the deep.  I'm drinking a beer right now and so It must be so.

One thing has really been nagging me about the nature trail solve: were all those signs and posts there in 1980/1/2? More specifically, when were they all put there and, secondarily, what resided on those lopped-off posts? The fact that the sign by the waterfront names 400 years of history from 1590, really makes me think that it must have been closer to, if not after 1990 when they were placed. Based on recent discussions and reading the following, I decided that within the gardens was a much better spot: "The Elizabethan Gardens are excluded from this study because they lie outside of the park's boundary. Although the National Park Service owns the land surrounding the Elizabethan Gardens, the gardens themselves are the property of the Roanoke Island Historical Association. They are, therefore, not included in the documentation of cultural resources on property owned by the National Park Service." Then, I found this: "The additional property acquired in 1990 has not been developed except for clearing an abandoned, unpaved roadway to serve as a visitor's trail.' Another pedestrian trail, the Thomas Hariot Nature Trail, winds through the wooded area adjacent to the theater and reconstructed fort and is intended to suggest the character of the landscape prior to European colonization." The real meat of the story is that I found... "...Phil Evans, NPS interpreter from the Southeast NPS Region, has been named 1986 recipient of the Freeman Tilden award for excellence in interpretation. Disclosure of the honor was made at the September meeting of the Association of Interpretive Naturalists conference in September at the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area. Evans exercises his outstanding brand of interpretation at Fort Raleigh National Historic Site, which is managed as part of the Cape Hatteras National Seashore." "The Freeman Tilden Award is an annual award recognizing outstanding contributions to the public through interpretation by a National Park Service employee. The award was created in 1982 to stimulate and reward creative work by National Park Service employees that results in positive impacts upon the visiting public." "Phil is an attorney in private practice concentrating on juvenile and mental health law in Durham, NC. Previously he was a park ranger historian at the Fort Raleigh National Historic Site, where he received the Freeman Tilden Award for education and interpretation from the National Parks and Conservation Association." Phillip Evans currently has an office 3 miles from mine. I'm gonna swing by, chat hit up, and ask him about this photo: hxxp://farm8.staticflickr.com/7173/6819825329_0e19ceae74.jpg

From Rob Bolling (Fort Raleigh historian) to me, Dec. 23, 2005: "All the present nature trailwaysides were designed by a student intern in the late 70's named Ken Johns." When I asked how to get in touch with Ken Johns, he replied: "I wish there was a warmer lead to find Ken, but that goes back so many years that it may have left our institutional knowledge. I'll ask one or two local people, but unfortunately I probably won't be able to locate him for you. I'll check, but if you don't hear back soon it means I can't find what you need to contact him." ...and I didn't hear back.

Update: I've received sufficient confirmation to the effect that my theory on Chicamacomico will not lead to a successful recovery.  There's been too many changes to the immediate environment to make any recovery possible.  Consider my theory proven false.

Albemarle Sound and river inlets match this part of the image.

I found something new which may not have been considered before. The topological view of the north coast of Roanoke Island has these contours that match the outstretched arm and hand of the armour. The outstretched arms are in my opinion a representation of the north coast. I downloaded a very useful map from the USGS map store for free. You zoom in on a location, place a marker on the area, in this case Manteo, then click on the marker to get a list of maps of various dates and detail. Then select one to download a zip file which is actually a very impressive pdf. Some are quite large around 20Mb even compressed. The pdf has lots of layers, even a satellite image. and since it is a pdf then it can be magnified. hxxp://store.usgs.gov/b2c_usgs/usgs/map ... 8&uiarea=2 )/.do

Morning all, New to and slightly obsessed with this hunt, but I wanted to check if anyone else has noticed that there appears to be some sort of writing on the tag attached to the spoon?  Or perhaps I've just been staring at this image too long.

Welcome to the hunt. I noticed that there MAY be writing on that "tag," perhaps a map, but it is so dark that it is impossible to tell what it is. I have often thought that there is a rebus down there, composed of the spoon, what looks like a pea, and that tag. Even the cracks in the wall, the string, and what looks like some weird impression around the top of the handle of the spoon, may come into play there. I tried putting different things into Google, and I still could not come up with anything.

If you stare at it long enough it looks a bit like the cursive letter E followed by an eight or a three and then what reminds me of the censor blurs on tv.  Might that "pea" actually be a marble?  Black peas do exist (they are actually purple) and are a traditional Lancashire version of mushy peas, but my first thought was bead or marble.

Are you close to this site Salamander? Looking for someone to take detailed pics of a bench.

No, but I spend a week at the shore during the summer. I'd be happy to take as many pics as you like.  I'm fairly convinced that the OBX are the right area.

I just figured that the pea was a location reference to the nearby Pea Island Wildlife Refuge.  Similar to the Euclid triangle in image 4.

balancing spoon and weight I think it could be a road map because the shape of the object and its string matches the looping Fort Raleigh Road. Then the Pear Pad road has a bend like a spoon handle and the pea is where the Fort Raleigh Nation Historic Site is marked on the map. hxxp://goo.gl/maps/tUkdO

I think the spoon and pea are two things, 1) reference to Pea Island (refuge = shelter or safe place <- land near the window, a window may imply a wall and a wall may imply a shelter), 2) reference to carrying something which is about to be swallowed, such as someone at risk of drowning at sea during a shipwreck.  This also echoes a reason for why the armor has no legs.  Breeches buoy rescue.

entrance to Elizabethan Gardens hxxp://goo.gl/maps/kE3ZI Is this the arch in the background of image 3?

wk wrote:: Is this the arch in the background of image 3? Yes. And the belt of the armor (upside down) is most likely representative of the complete entrance, as opposed to just the door.

hxxp://elizabethangardens.org/whats-in-bloom/tour/ There is a map on this page which shows the location of the trees around a lawn. I think it matches the blue blobs inside the arch. If you take the audio tour, at the Gazebo location, it mentions you can look towards the Wright Memorial at Kitty Hawk.

My apologies if any of this has been covered already, but in order to avoid creating any preconceived notions, I've tried to avoid reading these threads. I had a similar thought about pea island which is roughly south and east of Roanoke, especially when I read that the Pea Island lifesaving station had the only all black crews and had the first black commander, Richard Etheridge, so they might be considered "black peas" (or pearls?). The plaque for the station mentions this fact. hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Pea_island_life_saving_station_memorial_plaque.JPG .  The tag on the spoon reminds me of the tags they used to convey directions to the stranded ships on how to help the surfmen do their jobs and the statue does resemble the apparatus for the breeches buoy. My major issue with Fort Raleigh and that area is that it's been a national historic site and park for quite a long time making it impossible to recover anything.  So I would expect that any cache would be outside the park lines.  Also, I don't know how strict the hunt is directionally speaking, but if you pair verse 11 with this image, a straight north/ south line from the Wright Brothers Memorial runs outside the Fort Raleigh site near a street called Forest Ave and through the Roanoke Island Festival Park a little further south.  This actually ties in with the proposed landing site for the Roanoke Colony at/near Baum Point.  Considering how much the fae migration mirrors human migration to the new world, I think it's worth a bit of research.

rpvsurfingsalamander wrote:: My apologies if any of this has been covered already, but in order to avoid creating any preconceived notions, I've tried to avoid reading these threads. I had a similar thought about pea island which is roughly south and east of Roanoke, especially when I read that the Pea Island lifesaving station had the only all black crews and had the first black commander, Richard Etheridge, so they might be considered "black peas" (or pearls?). The plaque for the station mentions this fact. hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/7/71/Pea_island_life_saving_station_memorial_plaque.JPG .  The tag on the spoon reminds me of the tags they used to convey directions to the stranded ships on how to help the surfmen do their jobs and the statue does resemble the apparatus for the breeches buoy. My major issue with Fort Raleigh and that area is that it's been a national historic site and park for quite a long time making it impossible to recover anything.  So I would expect that any cache would be outside the park lines.  Also, I don't know how strict the hunt is directionally speaking, but if you pair verse 11 with this image, a straight north/ south line from the Wright Brothers Memorial runs outside the Fort Raleigh site near a street called Forest Ave and through the Roanoke Island Festival Park a little further south.  This actually ties in with the proposed landing site for the Roanoke Colony at/near Baum Point.  Considering how much the fae migration mirrors human migration to the new world, I think it's worth a bit of research. Good thought sal! I'm not sure that has been brought up (but I don't remember near everything that's been brought up). And yes, I'm not sure as to whether Preiss buried on historic property in the 80s...even though it's always been forbidden to dig on NPS property, I'm not sure if the rules were more relaxed back then. Or if Preiss cared. Regardless, there is more technology and vigilant people to catch anybody not doing what they are supposed to be doing at the sites nowadays. And I'm pretty sure several of the proposed sites that are the current front runners are historic sites too. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

How many people, other than PK, have actually been to Fort Raleigh and the Elizabethan Gardens? I went last weekend, but I want to find out if anybody else has been to a specific spot, so that I can ping what they recall. First off, "octave" is heavily described as the the Wrights' "friend" throughout the TINY museum at the Memorial. We got a personal tour being the only people silly enough to pay nine dollars to enter on a 34 F/steady 15+ day. Shout out to the guide... old men who fought in WWII are awesome. The wing was cool (I've been before in the summer), and I noticed that the side mentioning "to achieve..." is in line with Roanoke Island (the monument is roughly a triangle). On the door at the top is a bronze paneled door, which has several mythical/ancient winged characters. Traveling south-ish, toward the WB Bridge, you pass the Ben Franklin store at MP10, with it's 8-foot key squarely between the "n" and the "F" (On Driftwood Ave). The locals didn't know when it was built, but one person knew it to be over 40 years old. Across from the store (the key) was a water tower, again looking toward Roanoke Island (not to discount the Samuel Mace clue, but this didn't require a book - only to be on-site). There was also an additional water tower, that was shaped like the hand under the "mace." The first doesn't seem to have been there in the 80s. Continuing down the main road, the Washing Baum bridge was quite adequately and repeatedly marked. We made a right and traveled to the land near the window (keep in mind, we are told the land is near a "window"). Then, we made our way to the Gardens just down the road, and read the plate indicating the "dark forest." Another nine bucks and we got to roam the Gardens freely as it's only occupants (we were laughed at by the desk attendant as we arrived). The Dare statue pillar isn't a good match to the image, but we probed behind it anyways. There was a date and name etched behind it, but nothing connected with the rod. The sunken garden was still a circle in/and a square. The gazebo and and water gate proved just as fruitless. In fact, the trail down to the gate is now paved with some weird rubber conglomerate. There was nothing solid below the gate. The path to the sound from the gazebo had eroded to a drop-off, and it wasn't feasible to probe close to the gazebo. The water gate has ancient barbed wire fencing leading from both sides, so I couldn't see jumping over. We left the Gardens finding nothing but the entrance yielding anything of note and walked on the sidewalk from then entrance to the Dare memorial. As we neared the memorial, five feet away, a sign noted that the land was called " Wingand acoa." Looking north was the sidewalk leading from the Dare memorial to the Waterside Theatre, with the Harriot Trail between the two leading off to the left. I studied the Dare memorial, carefully reading both sides, and noticed that the cross in the circle at the top really looks like a circle in/and a square (with part of the square punched out). The points on the cross are quite pointed and come close to meeting. The symbol was also DIRECTLY above the words "... in July-August..." So, "after circle and square" we went (the verse was leading in a very linear fashion). We took the Harriot Trail and and studied all the signs. We walked all three paths that lead off the trail to the beach. When we got to the overlook, the posts were gone and the bench had been moved back 40 or so feet. I probed and dug freely... everywhere. And not just a few times, every six inches and three feet down. There was nothing to be found. I probed the entire rail line and about two feet on each side of it; I probed under the maps sign, and the sign at the overlook entrance; I probed between where the posts were and under every tree branch that hung over the sand; I probed down on the beach by the breaker pylons; I probed around the base of all the trees. Not a damn thing. I walked around the loop and repeated everything again with the same result... squat. A couple digs yielded ancient timber that had been buried to stop the erosion. We gave up and walked from the trail head to the ticket booth. The signage clearly had two maps and amply discussed one map being in watercolor. It also read at length White in Green's play. Then, we walked over to the theatre... I was pleasantly surprised at the matching clues within. These are the clues I would like to discuss. They include a "hall" of eye bolts in the standing room area, in front of a concession window. The window opens in the middle and is made of thin vertical slats (it looks like the "window" under the image's arms when open).

I have been there, too, and my experience was much the same as yours except (a) I did not dig and (b) I made the mistake of going later in spring when the mosquitoes had hatched in great numbers. Wonderful job doing recon and probing! That is valuable information, if frustrating. Photos??

Thanks for the update 421.

Thanks for the post Thrasher, this is most discouraging With the bench moved, the exact spot will elude us without GPR. Photos?

Only a few photos. Most of them were taken at the WB Memorial (I was trying to the fit the "Lane 222" verse as well during my visit). I'll put them up soon. @Rookhunter - I probed all around the bench posts... fruitlessly. After this visit, I really think that the Harriot trail has nothing to do with the dig spot. Sand had definitely been blown/washed away from the area, but none was added (i.e., a 3+ ft probe was more than enough to find anything, if it was there). Additionally, the clues in the theatre were really good. I really think that the spot might be under the theatre, or the building from which the ship tracks originate. All of these buildings are on stilts. Running down the stilts from/through the flooring above are thin water pipes with spigots. I get the impression that we are to be at the window in the standing room area (why the verse points out the land is near a "window"), look down the path of eye bolts at the furthest building, and then go under it. Under that which may be last touched (or first seen standing) - this would be a good description of the northwestern most building as seen when standing at the window and looking down the eye bolt "hall" from the standing area. When you pass through the hall, you must walk across the sand to get to it. The structure has a HUGE tree that is entirely driftwood laying across its porch. This is the same structure that can be seen when looking toward the theatre from the Harriot Trail overlook. It also reads well that you can see the spot when standing at the window, but you must walk over to the last building through the eyebolt hall (seen first from the window, otherwise it's hidden by the towers, trees and stage), and then crouch down and go under the building to get. The only thing I could get out of the nature trail was the sign about "Silk." So, Ben Frankilin (the key) used a key on a silk ribbon as an insulator when trying to figure out about electrical insulators. Mica, is a prime insulator, much like driftwood. This involves levels of interpretation though, which I do not like.

anyone have plans to visit, for a look see after Hurricane Arthur, some imgs manteo hxxp://wwwcache.wral.com/asset/news/loc ... 00x450.jpg slideshow highway 64 hxxp://abc11.com/weather/photos-hurrica ... ge/154226/ hxxp://www.wral.com/news/local/image_gallery/13787221/ the whole island got hit,slow traffic https://goo.gl/maps/JiUMv

dont remember if this was ever mentioned bells: The House that Skipper Bell Built,Albert Quentin “Skipper” Bell Waterside Theatre when a fire broke out in the backstage area The entire main stage, left wing, two dressing rooms and the scenery docks were destroyed. The only items saved were the costumes, tossed into the sound by costumer Irene Smart Rains, and the assembly bell, which refused to burn. where is the assembly bell, now and in the 80s hxxp://thelostcolony.org/about-us/ i think this is the plaque, does anyone know what it says hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM83 ... National_H istoric_Site_Dare_North_Carolina hxxp://lostcolony.wpengine.netdna-cdn.c ... amicWT.jpg

Nice find cw0909; don't remember seeing that before.

some interesting reading, and maps Cultural Landscapes Inventory--Fort Raleigh National Historic Site (2010) https://archive.org/stream/culturalland ... 2/mode/2up does anyone think about, andy griffith in the img or V, LOL hxxp://tinyurl.com/mbd4khr

I never realised that the north part of the Elizabethan Gardens is open to the beach. Look down at the amazing footprints in the sand. and check the live compass bearing and zoom north. hxxp://www.360cities.net/image/roanoke- ... ,2.03,99.6 Although this photo of the Roanoke sound is on Google Earth, the 360cities.net site makes it easier to find panoramic photos. hxxp://www.360cities.net/map#lat=35.938 ... 15&zoom=18 The garden paths on this visitor map bear a possible likeness to the chest armour of a mirrored image 3 Has anyone seen a more realistic map of the Elizabethan Gardens? All the satellite views seems to show trees apart from the sunken garden and lake. The historic views on Google Earth are no help either. (8635)

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Considering the various cross/tombstone suggestions... Will this do? Don't worry, I checked. The plaque was added in 2009. Try to imagine the cross without.

I'm more inclined to think the mace is just that - Mace, especially with all the other clues in the image/verse that point to a name (Baum, White, Green, Fletcher, Cannon, Chanute, Bell, et. al). Not only that, but the church and cross are pretty far from the road to "Dark Forest," and there is seemingly no direction in the verse to get you over there.

edit: error, double post

That's assuming the "Dark forest" line is the correct and only one for it. In 1981 the Elizabeth II wasn't docked at Roanoke Island Festival Park, and the bridge that leads to it (from where you can see the Bodie lighthouse) likely used to lead into something very different. The lines under the statue (from which things like the keys are hung) resembles a mast to me with ropes. It's a small bicentennial park (!) that has the following plaque on the rear of the cross, the side closest to the water: AMERICAN REVOLUTION MEMORIAL PARK A MEMORIAL FOR ALL TO REMEMBER THAT WITH THE HELP OF GOD AND A DEDICATED PEOPLE WE CAN STILL BUILD FROM RUINS which has an odd cadence to it, as well as fits with the idea of Determination. It's also the last thing you can touch, and the first thing you'd see standing as you sail in that way. It's near Roanoke Island Festival Park, which I don't believe has been explored, and next to the Roanoke Maritime Museum. The park it stands in is un-googleable. There are almost no pictures of it. In 1976 when it was built there was a 20 foot statue of Sir Walter Raleigh in the park, carved entirely out of a single piece of wood. I mean look it's been 30 years and tying us to the gardens we still have a tentative pedestal match and the words "dark forest." In an area that's changed way less than downtown Boston and downtown Milwaukee. It is also perfectly south of the memorial: hxxp://imgur.com/HFz49er These are the base of the lamps in the park, the look like bells: These are the top of the lamps, which look like the part the "bells" are hanging from. And here is the Roanoke Weather Tower, with similar support struts to the ones under the suit of armor's arms. All of these photos are taken from the front size of the cross in the same location. I'm not saying go dig up the park, but it's been 30+ years, can someone take a look? I've been spending a lot of time trying to find the "iconic building" in each painting, because it's there in the two solves, it's there in Boston. It's probably a theme. This is just research - this isn't a theory I'm going to argue or defend, but this puzzle has been stalled for ages. Here's the Bodie lighthouse, which is visible from this site and the bridge to Roanoke Island Festival Park, note the windows. hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... y_2007.jpg edit: Not for nothing, but if you look at the things hanging off the suit of armor, there's a bell with a circle under it, then another bell (lamp post?) that has a square under it, then the key which has the cross. After circle and square?

Xieish wrote:: That's assuming the "Dark forest" line is the correct and only one for it. ... It is.

30 years and the best match we have are the words "Dark forest" - and the verse doesn't even instruct us to take the path to the "Dark forest," just that we'll see one. I'm sorry, someone find a match in these frickin gardens that isn't the pedestal of that one statue. You and I have worked well together in the past, but you can't see how to anyone else posting that your response is completely maddening? People have spent over a deccade pouring over that location because of those words and turned up almost literally nothing. There is no smoking gun saying the prevailing thought couldn't be wrong and we're supposed to pass the sign, not take it. When you come off the bridge is there a fork of some sort? I'm not seeing anything that proves we're not supposed to just pass the road. The Wright Bros clue refers to things written on a monument 10+ miles away, maybe we're supposed to see the Dark Forest road but not take it? Look how far the exit off the Baum bridge is from the Gardens... you definitely pass this part of town first...

Xieish wrote:: 30 years and the best match we have are the words "Dark forest" - and the verse doesn't even instruct us to take the path to the "Dark forest," just that we'll see one. I'm sorry, someone find a match in these frickin gardens that isn't the pedestal of that one statue. You and I have worked well together in the past, but you can't see how to anyone else posting that your response is completely maddening? People have spent over a deccade pouring over that location because of those words and turned up almost literally nothing. There is no smoking gun saying the prevailing thought couldn't be wrong and we're supposed to pass the sign, not take it. When you come off the bridge is there a fork of some sort? I'm not seeing anything that proves we're not supposed to just pass the road. The Wright Bros clue refers to things written on a monument 10+ miles away, maybe we're supposed to see the Dark Forest road but not take it? Look how far the exit off the Baum bridge is from the Gardens... you definitely pass this part of town first... I can see how it is maddening, but that doesn't make it incorrect. You do not see the "Dark Forest" sign in any way except for entering the Gardens way back in the woods well off the main road... seemingly next to the "iconic" building. There is not way to just go past it, like we can the WB Memorial - it is not visible from anywhere except a few feet in front of it, and you have to intend on getting to that spot. The remainder of the verse points directly to the things found behind that sign, unambiguously. If you read the forum back a bit, you will see that I am not a fan of the Dare statue column match either. However, there is another column that is a dead ringer. Also, it's not the Baum bridge to which the verse is referring (i.e., ride the man of oz). People have definitely been looking at this picture for quite a while; however, because it is out of the way, it has been largely physically unexplored. With the exception of myself and Paul Kitchen, I think only one other person has visited. These two reasons are largely to blame for the fact that almost nothing has turned up on the forum.

Xieish wrote:: I'm not saying go dig up the park, but it's been 30+ years, can someone take a look? I'd have thought it was worth someone having a look round this place next time there's a visit. The verse references various things around the theatre/gardens. Apart from the dark forest sign, there's also the July/August sign. "White" appears on Forest's fave map sign, and there's a possible cryptic tie-in with the play via '"White in colour" / White in Green (character/playwright). On the other hand...Roanoke's not a huge place. It would seem reasonable to suppose BP would visit both parks, just as he might have visited several parks in places like NO. Are the Roanoke gardens and park any more widely separated than, say, Louis and Lafayette, or Juneau and the golf course...? We're pretty sure the images reference things all over the place. We can't be sure some of the verses don't either. Plus, like Xieish says, we've had no luck at all with image matches for this one. There's nothing except the island, really. But the main character could represent a mast, and while there are mast pics up north, the actual ship is at the festival park. It's called the Elizabeth II, and the English queen is mentioned in the intro. Xieish also mentions a Raleigh statue, and tobacco is also mentioned in the intro. The Leprechauns are described as smokers and shoemakers... I'm intrigued by this shape the key is hanging from... The festival park has a blacksmith's shop with anvils and stuff which seems to fit with the general look of the image. There's also traditional crafts, shoemaking, etc. I once suggested that "last" might be a cobbler's last. Maybe "last touched and first seen standing" could be a shoe; a horseshoe...? A road that sounds like shoe...? Something cobbled...? Dunno. We know BP uses acrostics, and the verse starts with an inverted "RIP" which seems to go with the tombstone effects. Roanoke Island Park...?

The Elizabeth II was launched in 1983-84, though it was built on-site. I've tried to reach out to the park for more info, but I think it's highly unlikely that anything relating to the Elizabeth II is in the puzzle. It's very possible that something related to ships/masts is there, because seriously, the arms splayed with the ropes underneath looks like a mast, but I doubt it's this particular ship. The Festival Park, and Jules Park (they are connected and adjacent, Jules' Park is the name of the Bicentennial Park, it has a few names) are far away from the Elizabethan Gardens & Fort Raleigh. Four21 - with the road that leads to Dark Forest, given where that is in the clues (right after the first "movement" direction) do you think it could be similar to "Green tower of lights" in Verse 3? You don't deviate at the green tower of lights, you just see them. Maybe you don't go down the dark path, you read the sign and pass it? This puzzle also multiple times refers to things that are very far away. The Wright Bros monument is 15 miles from Roanoke or so, and it specifically calls out words on that monument, one we likely never go to or visit in our quest, and we believe it's used twice as a direction and an orient point. I want to see the Raleigh statute if it's still in Jules Park. Also in Jules Park: The Roanoke Weather Station (has support struts like under the armor's arms, but this is not a unique shape at all), lots of lamps, basically it was a park they built in the 1970s mostly out of existing junk. The cross is the cornerstone of an old school they demolished. (First seen standing?) It's super eclectic and sounds like a fun little place to visit. Plus the maritime museum is right on the same grounds, AND the Roanoke Lighthouse. But I can't connect the two sites at all. I'd say Jules/Roanoke Festival Park are a combo the same way Fort Raleigh and the Gardens are. It's probably 10 million percent easier to dig in Jules/Bicentennial park or Roanoke Festival Park though.

Okay, I figured out how to post an image, finally:

Xieish wrote:: The Elizabeth II was launched in 1983-84, though it was built on-site. I've tried to reach out to the park for more info, but I think it's highly unlikely that anything relating to the Elizabeth II is in the puzzle. It's very possible that something related to ships/masts is there, because seriously, the arms splayed with the ropes underneath looks like a mast, but I doubt it's this particular ship. The Festival Park, and Jules Park (they are connected and adjacent, Jules' Park is the name of the Bicentennial Park, it has a few names) are far away from the Elizabethan Gardens & Fort Raleigh. Four21 - with the road that leads to Dark Forest, given where that is in the clues (right after the first "movement" direction) do you think it could be similar to "Green tower of lights" in Verse 3? You don't deviate at the green tower of lights, you just see them. Maybe you don't go down the dark path, you read the sign and pass it? This puzzle also multiple times refers to things that are very far away. The Wright Bros monument is 15 miles from Roanoke or so, and it specifically calls out words on that monument, one we likely never go to or visit in our quest, and we believe it's used twice as a direction and an orient point. I want to see the Raleigh statute if it's still in Jules Park. Also in Jules Park: The Roanoke Weather Station (has support struts like under the armor's arms, but this is not a unique shape at all), lots of lamps, basically it was a park they built in the 1970s mostly out of existing junk. The cross is the cornerstone of an old school they demolished. (First seen standing?) It's super eclectic and sounds like a fun little place to visit. Plus the maritime museum is right on the same grounds, AND the Roanoke Lighthouse. But I can't connect the two sites at all. I'd say Jules/Roanoke Festival Park are a combo the same way Fort Raleigh and the Gardens are. It's probably 10 million percent easier to dig in Jules/Bicentennial park or Roanoke Festival Park though. Sure, the "Dark forest" sign is like the "green tower of lights"... you walk to it, then you pass it and continue on as the verse directs. All this talk about off-site (i.e., not in FRHP or EG) ships and crosses... Why not use the ones at FRHP? If you think the "Queen" is important, why not use the Queen at EG? If you think the image's relation to Raleigh is important, why drift away from the most direct link - Fort Raleigh? BTW, I've spent a good deal of time at the WB Memorial, and that location has it's merit by using V5. V11 would then be used for Montreal, where you find Octave and his "two friends" in a conveniently named park. However, I just can't get away from "the land near the window" being a direct link for I3V11.

Egbert wrote:: Okay, I figured out how to post an image, finally: Here's another one: E lizabethan g arden

Let's just be glad it's Roanoke Island and not Oak Island 🙂

Egbert wrote:: Okay, I figured out how to post an image, finally: I think Egbert is definitely onto something here! What we need now is a high-resolution map of the Elizabethan Gardens. (The one on the EG website doesn't have a lot of pixels.) Does anyone have a physical copy of the map given out at the gardens? If so, please photograph it or scan it so we can all take a closer look.

Has anyone else pointed out that the Elizabethan Gardens on Roanoke Island and the Fountain of Youth Archaeological Park in St. Augustine both have the same sundial? Here's the one in North Carolina: Here's the one in Florida: Seems like it's got to be a coincidence. I can't imagine that BP researched sundials before he set off across the country. Still, it's interesting. It makes me wonder if there was at one time a similar sundial at the top of the Grand Staircase in Milwaukee.

Okay, that's spooky.

Oregonian wrote:: Has anyone else pointed out that the Elizabethan Gardens on Roanoke Island and the Fountain of Youth Archaeological Park in St. Augustine both have the same sundial? . That sundial is made by Rome Industries,they have been around 50 years , you might call and see how old that particular design is. hxxp://www.romeindustries.com/2345big.htm hxxp://www.romeindustries.com/aboutus.htm

i think its prob a coincidence, in my small town i know of 2 of the same dial this one is popular too hxxp://www.romeindustries.com/2312big.htm

Hey Oregonian, that was a keen spotting....how did you find that info out...just curious

decibalnyc wrote:: Hey Oregonian, that was a keen spotting....how did you find that info out...just curious After extensive research, I determined the true secret behind The Secret : Byron Preiss was actually moonlighting as a traveling salesman for a sundial company! No, it was actually just a random bit of déjà vu when I was browsing through some photo collections on Flickr.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I recently got in contact with a volunteer at Fort Raleigh (hi!) who's interested in looking for the casque, and I noticed he's been updating the Wiki... Does anyone know anything about that "Way Side Sign with two maps" that should be at the spot marked "1" on this map? This is the only place I've seen it mentioned and I haven't been able to find a picture. I tried contacting Paul Kitchen directly, but he's currently off on some adventure in New Mexico.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: We gave up and walked from the trail head to the ticket booth. The signage clearly had two maps and amply discussed one map being in watercolor. It also read at length White in Green's play. This sounds like the same signs that Paul Kitchen was describing, but I still haven't found any photos of them. Were the signs on the ticket booth or across from it or behind it or what? Anybody know?

oo that was a while back, There was a picture at one time. it was one of those things that when you saw the picture, and read the text, you went,ok! well that piece is solved! I believe they were along the path on the left just as you left the parkinglot

I was thinking about "last touched or first seen standing" and wondered about "Bed". That could be a raised bed, herb bed, etc., but I'm interested in the idea that this might refer to something on one of the Harriot Trail signs. So I went over Paul Kitchen's pics and found this: Apart from the bedstead, I liked the similarity to the verse on P32 with its New World Elf. The general "Profit for England" theme seems appropriate. I'd be interested in some photos of that area next time anyone visits.

WhiteRabbit wrote:: I was thinking about "last touched or first seen standing" and wondered about "Bed". Hmm.... So you're thinking that "bed" might be the answer to "last touched or first seen standing"? I could see it being the last thing touched (before one falls asleep) but where does the "standing" part come in? Wouldn't most people open their eyes and see the bed before they stand up?

How about "floor"? It is the last thing you touch before you go to bed (taking your feet off the floor), and when you first stand up in the morning, there it is.

I've been to the site twice (we spend a week on the Outer Banks every summer) and I still have no idea what this line could possibly refer to. I've explored all the logical places ( Elizabethan Gardens, Water Gate, Waterside Theater) as well as some illogical places (beach, Fort Raleigh), and have pretty much come to the conclusion that whatever Preiss meant by LToFSS, it's gone. And like the trees in Chicago, and the tree in Milwaukee for that matter, that simple fact is what's making this last clue so difficult and obscure. In short, we are in the right cemetery, but we are trying to find a grave that is missing its headstone (I know, no casques are actually in cemeteries, but as an analogy, it works pretty well if I say so myself). Knowing where to stop and dig was never intended to be the problem. The real problem, and the key to the whole thing, was knowing where to start. From there, all you had to do was follow the verse, and Preiss would lead you right to a dig spot, whether it was 20 miles from the first clue to the last (as is the case for this puzzle), 2 miles (as in Milwaukee) or 20 feet (as I suspect is the case in Florida).

Not sure about that. BP seems to have made identifying the precise dig spot extremely difficult, to the extent that one of the only two casques unearthed needed his help to pinpoint and the other took a fair bit of exploration. The remaining verses tend to feature obscure and cryptic identifiers like a tall proud fifth, bar that binds, etc., and in some cases have no obvious identifier at all.

I know I didn't do the best job explaining it, but if you haven't seen my propsed dig for Image 11, go check it out. PM me if you have questions. I believe with a lot of help I was able to find the starting location to #11 and within a few months believe I have the entire solution. I am completely, 100% confident in the park. There are a number of unique matches that have been confirmed existed in 1981, multiple photograph level matches, statue positioning matches, and it culminates in a spot on the ground depicted in the image. I believe that's the best way to solve them, renovater is correct. They're so, so hard to pick up "in the middle" because the verses are so vague, many of the lines we obsess over only make sense in context of the start location. You can spend months chasing down things that match the verse perfectly! Check out Cambridge Common and its amazing similarities to verse 3 :\ But I can prove the starting location. I don't think this puzzle starts at the Wright Brothers Memorial, personally. There is a better, more exact location, especially if you're meant to drive across the bridge? Look at the Cleveland puzzle - without the Polaroid start location you'd never have found it, everyone was pretty sure it was in PA. You can chase down the verses anywhere. Somewhere in this image are enough clues to get you to a specific spot in 1981.

Unknown: and in some cases have no obvious identifier at all. With all due respect, I have a hard time believing that Preiss would guide us, clearly and unambiguously, for over 20 miles, drop you off at the entrance to Fort Raleigh only to say, "somewhere in here lies the treasure. Good luck.". The verse tells us that there is a path to (or toward) the beach. In this case, there are several (and they don't have individual names as far as I can tell) so there may be a bit of trial and error involved in finding the right one. But the paths are short, and some even intersect, so the walk is pleasant (if you have bug spray) and the investment is minimal. You'll know you are on the right one when you find the LToFSS, unless of course, it's no longer there. But Preiss was definitely referring to something, and he expected that when you saw that same something, you would know that you were there. Chicago gives us a dig spot, only corrupted by the fact that a few of the marker trees were gone by the time the Chicago group found the treasure ground. Cleveland's directions are even more precise in that regard, again only corrupted by the honest confusion between left and right. Milwaukee's is the most exact of the three, but like Chicago, the marker tree is gone. And it's true for Houston (center of four alike) and Florida (at the base of a tall tree) as well. Why should we think that this one, or any of the other six weren't designed in essentially the same way?

Unknown: I don't think this puzzle starts at the Wright Brothers Memorial, personally. There is a better, more exact location, especially if you're meant to drive across the bridge? No need to be coy on this detail Xieish. Having a better starting point might shed some light on the puzzles as a whole, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will do nothing to resolve the final resting place of the casque. Personally, I think it's the Wright Memorial. It's consistent with the methodology, and other than Jockey's Ridge a few miles to the south, it's the only thing of distinction on that whole stretch of sand.

Xieish wrote:: ...many of the lines we obsess over only make sense in context of the start location. Xieish that line is extremely important. Some of the clues you can only see (and hear) from the perspective of standing there on the street, sidewalk, beach, etc... I'd be interested in hearing your start point if you want to hypothesize. I've been to Roanoke as well, and I'm also in the camp of whatever was there is probably gone/changed, so we may not be at the final spot at all.

Pardon my intrusion. I've been reading and following this for several months now, but I only tonight made an account. Is anyone planning a trip out to Roanoke in the near future? I recently moved back to America from the UK and would be interested in going. I'm not exactly nearby, but it's only a 4 hour drive away.

At Roanoke. Any specific areas needs checked out?

Try to approach it with fresh eyes. Take a color print of the image, a printout of the verse, and some strong mosquito repellent and SPF 1000 sunblock.

Take a 35 min drive to Chicamacomico and find the Wreck Pole, then hold up the image and see how the water tower landmark in the southwest overlays perfectly with the pole's south pointing arm. If this were the original location of the Wreck Pole, the casque would be buried below the end of the north facing arm, but I don't know for a fact that the new pole was actually planted a short distance away or if it replaced the old pole in the exact spot.

On limited time with the kiddos so prob won't make it there Eric sorry. But I def did approach with fresh eyes fb. And no bug spray or sunblock needed but thanks. Must say nothing stood out as an aha moment (image in hand). Been to all probable locations. I honestly think this one was lost to the elements. I like the hariot trail location but again no aha. Then tried the gardens. I like the gated northeast path but nowhere to go with all the erosion. A worker told me that path used to lead to the beach but has since eroded to a cliff of nothing. We can chalk this one up as a loss on my opinion but going back tomorrow. I'll post pics when I can but is there anywhere specific we need a pic? The hariot trail has all new markers but the overlook is generally the same. Also some locals said there is a spot in nags head they call the dark forest due to some haunted ideas but I kinda blew them off with the land near the window line. Gotta be in Roanoke right? Not nags head. Leaving after tomorrow so if we need pics let me know.

I'd love to know how many of these areas were actually dug. The Hariot Trail, Elizabethan Gardens, beach, whatever. (It wouldn't have to be an "I dug here/there..." statement, so you don't dime yourself out, if you are worried about that.) But it would be great to know, of all these theories, what has been tried, so we can move on to new ones. My 0.02. P.S. Beachside of the watergate is out.

The historic building and the water tower would be in the near and distant background of the wreck pole. The station workers would pull a square cart with big wagon wheels over to a position to launch their lifesaving aparatus during july and august drills (reenactments). The coolest connection is that station workers like these were instrumental in the First Flight.

erexere wrote:: The historic building and the water tower would be in the near and distant background of the wreck pole. The station workers would pull a square cart with big wagon wheels over to a position to launch their lifesaving aparatus during july and august drills (reenactments). The coolest connection is that station workers like these were instrumental in the First Flight. I've been looking at your information about Pea Island, and this most recent information has inspired me with a complimentary theory... 1) [outlined peach] the cart handle (sticking straight out) and life saving aparatuses (hanging just below the handle) are reminiscent of a sword and a shield, which would tie in nicely with the image's figure of armor that is missing a sword and shield. The right-side hand certainly looks like you could slide the handle right into it... Is this the hand that, like the staff in the image, would pull the cart handle and launch the lifesaving apparatus? 2) [circled white] the plumb bob can also be called a "lead." Private i's/eyes gather "leads"... Detectives like Dick Tracy run a business that is based on "leads." We are like detectives in this hunt. Coincidentally, you can also end up shooting people full of "lead." Perhaps this is a play on the phrase - "give you enough rope to hang yourself" - and a warning by Preiss: these clues are either a "lead" you should take, or the "lead" that you can shoot yourself in the foot with. 3) [pointed to with red arrows] this is just a side note, because I am still trying to decide whether I should include or cut them out of my theory, but... the seamen in the image appear unkempt even though they are in a public place. Nowadays, you would typically see them much more in line, but I guess I can brush it aside since the image is vintage. Perhaps Preiss sought out an image just like this to represent the midsection of the figure in our image... a mess of red lines. I don't really know where to go from here with this idea, so I'll hand this thing over to you. I think it's pretty solid now, though. After you noodle with it a bit, I would encourage you to jump on it... see if you can get anything out of it. I'll keep knocking it around myself, too, and I'll let you know if anything comes from it.

Preiss-Less

Reposting with added content, Starting at the Wright Bros Wing Memorial and heading south on hwy 12, there is a road to Roanoke, but just 30 min further there is this historic Life Saving Station building in which a perfectly square cart with two large circular wagon wheels is brought out for training drills in July and August for rescue reenactments on a Wreck Pole, a mock shipmast. The mast of a ship is definitely the last thing touched and first seen standing. Standing at the Wreck Pole you can see the congruence between the archway of the station, the two points off the roof that angle like the horns on the helmet and a water tower just to the left which proportionally matches the mace on the arm. The workers of a life saving station like this in Kill Devil Hills were instrumental in the First Flight of the Wright Bros. This is the Chicamacomico Life Saving Station in Rodanthe and the home of the most famous maritime rescue family known by the last name Midgett. The name Midgett is an excellent fit for the subject of "man from oz", since the Munchkins of Oz are portrayed by midgets. I believe the casque was buried beneath the end of the north side arm of the Wreck Pole. Unfortunately I am told that the current pole is not the same as the one present nearby in 1982 and which was badly damaged in a hurricane storm.

erexere wrote:: Reposting with added content... You win, E. You are the master troller. I can't compete.

Possibly of relevance to the line "Ride the man of oz," Carolista Baum spearheaded an organization Save Our Sand Dune in 1975-76 to secure the site of what became the Jockey's Ridge State Park. Definition of a "jockey": a person who rides in horse races, especially as a profession. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5fTbLdT ... e=youtu.be

1977 news article reporting Carolista Baum's help in preserving the Chicamacomico Life Saving Station that Hirudiniforme drew a penis on, https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 2780&hl=en

I see what you are trying to do here Eric, and while I admire your tenacity, you are ignoring some pretty obvious connections that point to Roanoke, including "the land by the window", and "Dark Forest". Once again, and IMO, you are ignoring the simple and direct, for the complicated and obscure, to your detriment.

forest_blight wrote:: Am I the only one who sees this? It's from a bench in the Elizabethan Gardens. And not a small detail, either - it's the primary image. That might work, but Carolista Baum is a woman, not a man. And "ride" implies a vehicle or road of some sort named for Baum (not Carolista), like the bridge or the ferry (both named Baum). Sorry Erpobdelliforme, not true. There is an accumulation of information only and how it yoelds to one perspective or another is something for us to consider as we weigh those facts. If you would enter the discussion and do better to make your own perspective understood, then maybe I'd understand your objections, otherwise you and several others around here may as well be making empty claims. I am not ignoring the details that maybe are pointing to Roanoke. I'm clarifying that saying "there is a road that leads to dark forest" isnt the same as saying "take that road". I am practicing a simple act of raising doubt and then supplying an alternative for anyone to consider. I am not trying to misdirect. How about you work on the puzzles with us? I do appreciate your attention to my work and I'm sorry if you dont agree. Okay, I forgot that "search is my friend". Kato and fblight had mentioned Carolista Baum already...a decade ago! That symbol of the cross on the bench is really a fantastic find. Good job! On the point that Carolista is not a "man of oz", I think thats not enough to rule her out. I think there are some indications that would lead us to the "Munchkins". 1) octave is not capitalized as it should be as we feel compelled to consider Octave Chanute, otherwise we might consider the basic span of notes from Big C to Little C, 2) oz is also not capitalized as it compells us to consider the book author's name: Baum, otherwise we might consider the abbreviated form of ounce, a smallish unit of weight, 3) the torso of armor, legs replaced by a pedestal, 4) the Munchkins were portrayed by Little People and the name Midgett is historically significant to the Roanoke area. The hints about little things in contrast to bigger things might be part of the process needed to arrive at the Midgett's famous rescue of England's people aboard the Mirlo.

Unknown: There is an accumulation of information only and how it yoelds to one perspective or another is something for us to consider as we weigh those facts. Absolutely correct. And as I have said many time, I prefer the simple and direct. The "two friends of octave" are the Wright Brothers. The "man of oz" is Baum. "the land near the window" is the map of Roanoke in the Image. "Dark Forest" is the area in and around Fort Raleigh, where the Lost Colony is said to have disappeared. You don't need to do any research to know the above is true, just like you didn't need to do any research to solve the Cleveland and Chicago puzzles. Most of the relevant information is either common sense, common knowledge, or appears on the numerous brochures that one can get at the two National Parks in the area today, and in 1981. The rest was meant to be discovered by actually going there and walking around, which I have now done 6 times. Unfortunately, the changes to the area complicate the last and most critical step somewhat, but not to the point of making the puzzle unsolvable, or so I choose to believe, since I will be there at the end of this month for visit #7.

Actually, "dark forest" are just two words in a verse and we don't absolutely know how they apply, so we may ask questions and research wherever necessary. I dont believe anyone working these puzzles would confess research isnt necessary. I don't really follow the retrospective simplicity that would represent Chicago and Cleveland. Yes they were solved to the point of digging up a casque, but it took hard work and lots of intermittent failure. I dont see whats wrong with allowing the possibility after passing the Wright monument and heading south on the main coastal roadway that turning off onto the road to Roanoke could be one of those intermittent failures. I think we are all guilty of losing objectivity. Lots of people here have helped me recognize that. So lets take a little more in and ask more questions. What is the best explanation about the lower-caseness of some words? Was Preiss just being careless?

Unknown: I dont believe anyone working these puzzles would confess research isnt necessary. That's true...today. But only because in many cases, we are trying to recreate conditions as they existed when the puzzle was new, and the landmarks were fresh. Was there something that could be described as "last touched or first seen standing" at the overlook in the past? Was it something that someone could dig under? And since it is obviously gone today, is it possible that its removal (assuming that it was ever there) also destroyed the casque? These are things that are worthy of research IMO, and I think most would agree with my assessment.

erexere wrote:: There is an accumulation of information only and how it yoelds to one perspective or another is something for us to consider as we weigh those facts. In all seriousness, I have a few direct question for you, erexere. Others, including tjgray , may want to ask themselves the same questions... If the casque could be at Fort Raleigh due to the verse clues, or it could be at Elizabethan Gardens due to the image clues, or it could be at the lifesaving station due to whatever clues you want to present... or it could reasonably and plausibly be at many other locations (e.g., why not drive another 30 minutes down the highway past the lifesaving station to another image/verse-related match, or another 30 minutes, or another 30 minutes)... then how are we supposed to solve the puzzle? Dig all the possible locations? Doesn't that concern you? I mean, say I like your theory (even though I drew a penis on it... and pubes... and a little squirt). Why is it any better than a Fort Raleigh or Elizabethan Gardens theory? What makes one theory more plausible than another if everything is subjectively equal and contains image and verse play? If we play by those rules, why can't the "Roanoke" casque be in Oregon... or can it be?

Unknown: Dig all the possible locations? Not for nothing, but I really wonder just how much dirt and sand has been moved in the pursuit of these stupid things? My guess is a whole lot more than Preiss intended when he designed the puzzles.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Not for nothing, but I really wonder just how much dirt and sand has been moved in the pursuit of these stupid things? My guess is a whole lot more than Preiss intended when he designed the puzzles. "... A little digging is the task."

four2, good to see you have your debate hat on. That I suggest driving 30 minutes beyond the point where you see "a road that leads to dark forest," doesn't justify the assumption that we can continue widening the search net. The visual information that is a pea and a spoon would make a good case for a continuation to the Pea Island area after passing Roanoke, but it could be argued that searches coming from the south would pass Pea Island on their way to Roanoke just as searches coming from the north would pass "two friends of octave" on their way to the Roanoke. It's just not definite in my mind that this puzzle works either way to guide us directly to Roanoke proper.

erexere wrote:: four2, good to see you have your debate hat on. That I suggest driving 30 minutes beyond the point where you see "a road that leads to dark forest," doesn't justify the assumption that we can continue widening the search net. The visual information that is a pea and a spoon would make a good case for a continuation to the Pea Island area after passing Roanoke, but it could be argued that searches coming from the south would pass Pea Island on their way to Roanoke just as searches coming from the north would pass "two friends of octave" on their way to the Roanoke. It's just not definite in my mind that this puzzle works either way to guide us directly to Roanoke proper. You skirted the questions, E. Let's say that I believe it's there, but Erpobdelliforme thinks it's in Nags Head, and tjgray thinks it's at Fort Raleigh. We all have verse and image confirmers. Who's right? Do you think that Preiss meant for us not to know? Do we need to go to each and every possible location and look to see if we see a final image confirmer (e.g. fence and fixture, the greek wall)?

If I can just chime in, since we're live at the moment. What about "Look north at the wing". AT the wing. Not "toward" the wing like we do with the Isle of B. Preiss specifically says you can see "the wing" and then gives a direct quote from the Wright Bros. monument, which is a wing. To me, this is pretty solid that wherever the cask is buried, you can look north and directly see the Wright Bros. monument. Apparently this point is in dispute, but I don't understand how. Any other concoction of answers to that point in the verse is lost on me. We have the monument, we have a direct quote from the monument. The monument is a wing, and he gives us the quote to hammer home that he is talking about that specific monument that you can see from the spot where the cask is buried.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: If I can just chime in, since we're live at the moment. What about "Look north at the wing". AT the wing. Not "toward" the wing like we do with the Isle of B. Preiss specifically says you can see "the wing" and then gives a direct quote from the Wright Bros. monument, which is a wing. To me, this is pretty solid that wherever the cask is buried, you can look north and directly see the Wright Bros. monument. Apparently this point is in dispute, but I don't understand how. Any other concoction of answers to that point in the verse is lost on me. We have the monument, we have a direct quote from the monument. The monument is a wing, and he gives us the quote to hammer home that he is talking about that specific monument that you can see from the spot where the cask is buried. First off, it ain't at the wing. Secondly, don't focus on THIS puzzle, or THAT solution... focus on the questions as they relate to the puzzles as a whole.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: First off, it ain't at the wing. Secondly, don't focus on THIS puzzle, or THAT solution... focus on the questions as they relate to the puzzles as a whole. I'm sorry, I'm missing your point, I guess. I wasn't suggesting it was buried in the immediate vicinity of the Wright Bros monument (just within line of sight - thus eliminating anything that more than a few hundred rods away from the wright bros. monument), or did I quote the verse wrong?

Whether a single person has several options in mind or several people each have one location that meets their interpretation, I dont see a reason to propose Preiss had the intent to lead people in several directions. I cantspeak for your or anyone else, but as I weigh the options, I find the particulars of the First Flight event have something in common with the Life Saving Stations and events of the Mirlo Rescue at Chicamacomico (Rodanthe) at least align with England enough that maybe the Fair Folk saw a good setup for hiding their garnet.

erexere wrote:: Whether a single person has several options in mind or several people each have one location that meets their interpretation, I dont see a reason to propose Preiss had the intent to lead people in several directions. I cantspeak for your or anyone else, but as I weigh the options, I find the particulars of the First Flight event have something in common with the Life Saving Stations and events of the Mirlo Rescue at Chicamacomico (Rodanthe) at least align with England enough that maybe the Fair Folk saw a good setup for hiding their garnet. But Preiss specifically says you can look at the wing when you are digging up the cask and then immediately follows it up with a direct quote from the Wright Bros. monument. You disagree with this interpretation that the wing is the Wright Brother's monument?

Regarding "Look north at the wing" I'm not sure how there could be any controversy. Multiple lines of evidence lead to Roanoke Island as the site, specifically the northern shore, where one may literally look north and see the Wright Brothers memorial. Can we at least agree on that??

erexere wrote:: Whether a single person has several options in mind or several people each have one location that meets their interpretation, I dont see a reason to propose Preiss had the intent to lead people in several directions. I cantspeak for your or anyone else, but as I weigh the options, I find the particulars of the First Flight event have something in common with the Life Saving Stations and events of the Mirlo Rescue at Chicamacomico (Rodanthe) at least align with England enough that maybe the Fair Folk saw a good setup for hiding their garnet. And other people have other opinions that are equally as backed-up and plausible. Again, are we supposed to go to every possible location and dig? Which theory is better? Is that subjective?

Merlot Brougham wrote:: But Preiss specifically says you can look at the wing when you are digging up the cask and then immediately follows it up with a direct quote from the Wright Bros. monument. You disagree with this interpretation that the wing is the Wright Brother's monument? Merlot Brougham wrote:: I'm sorry, I'm missing your point, I guess. I wasn't suggesting it was buried in the immediate vicinity of the Wright Bros monument, or did I quote the verse wrong? What if I do disagree? Who's right? Again, forget a solution, forget your solution, forget your INTERPRETATION... ask yourself those questions above. Rinse and repeat for any one of the secret puzzles. We all know that these verse and images can work ANYWHERE, and we can all justify them being ANYWHERE. Are we supposed to dig EVERYWHERE until we find one?

forest_blight wrote:: Regarding "Look north at the wing" I'm not sure how there could be any controversy. Multiple lines of evidence lead to Roanoke Island as the site, specifically the northern shore, where one may literally look north and see the Wright Brothers memorial. Can we at least agree on that?? That is exactly what I am saying, yes. Thank you.

Merlot, et al. I dont think the wing is the Wright Monument. I think we "look north" and we are standing "at the wing" of the Wreck Pole, which is a concept replica of a ships mast. The mast arms are also wings. "Wing-to-wing" for anyone here with sailing experience. I've had little, so correct me if I'm wrong.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: What if I do disagree? Who's right? Hirudiniforme wrote:: Again, forget a solution, forget your solution, forget your INTERPRETATION... ask yourself those questions above. Rinse and repeat for any one of the secret puzzles. We all know that these verse and images can work ANYWHERE, and we can all justify them being ANYWHERE. Are we supposed to dig EVERYWHERE until we find one? I'd like to think I give everyone a fair shake when they propose an opinion, particularly those who are doing so with all of the available information, and I know that's a task given the amount of stuff being bandied about out there. To directly answer your question absolutely literally, of course nobody is right until we dig up a cask or Preiss shows up at my "The Secret" seance and we hold his feet to the fire. I never suggested that. Seems pretty foolish to me.

forest_blight wrote:: Regarding "Look north at the wing" I'm not sure how there could be any controversy. Multiple lines of evidence lead to Roanoke Island as the site, specifically the northern shore, where one may literally look north and see the Wright Brothers memorial. Can we at least agree on that?? No, we can't. And I can give you a hundred reasons why and show you at least 5 different wings to be digging at, of various varieties. THAT'S my point. Which is right? How do you know? You might have more evidence that you interpreted, but do you know you are right?

Well obviously you can't KNOW, but keeping all avenues open as possibilities would be the height of folly. This one seems really obvious, since Roanoke Island is, you know, IN THE PAINTING.

Unknown: I never suggested that. Seems pretty foolish to me. E is in Oregon... there is still talk about which verse goes with which image... I am not foolish.

erexere wrote:: Merlot, et al. I dont think the wing is the Wright Monument. I think we "look north" and we are standing "at the wing" of the Wreck Pole, which is a concept replica of a ships mast. The mast arms are also wings. "Wing-to-wing" for anyone here with sailing experience. I've had little, so correct me if I'm wrong. Desperation is a smelly cologne. C'mon, that explanation is total poo-poo, dude. "Look north at the wing" is one single line in the verse and clearly ties in with the other Wright Bros reference(s) in the verse. We will have to fundamentally disagree on the above point.

forest_blight wrote:: Well obviously you can't KNOW... forest_blight wrote:: ... but keeping all avenues open as possibilities would be the height of folly. This one seems really obvious, since Roanoke Island is, you know, IN THE PAINTING. Can you not? Why not? Forget Roanoke... Look at my original questions...

Hirudiniforme wrote:: there is still talk about which verse goes with which image... I am not foolish. I don't know whether or not you're talking about some previous posts I made where I suggested I was open to playing with some verse matchups a little bit, but that was some time ago.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: C'mon, that explanation is total poo-poo, dude. Why is your solution, or any solution for that matter, better? Cause it is a more accepted opinion of how to interpret the clues? Do you have more subjective images matches than E? Do you have a more elegant interpretation of the verse? Try this MB... which park is the Roanoke casque in? You sure?

Merlot Brougham wrote:: I don't know whether or not you're talking about some previous posts I made where I suggested I was open to playing with some verse matchups a little bit, but that was some time ago. Why did you stop?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Why did you stop? Did you settle on some cause you were tired... and maybe you'll just switch em up a bit later when/if the ones you are using don't pan out?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Why is your solution, or any solution for that matter, better? Cause it is a more accepted opinion of how to interpret the clues? Do you have more subjective images matches than E? Do you have a more elegant interpretation of the verse? Try this MB... which park is the Roanoke casque in? You sure? I see what you're doing here. Fish on! We know the answer. That doesn't matter. You're not interested in that anyway, but I'd bet an artistic mspaint penis that you sure as-shit put eyes on the Wright Bros. monument from wherever the cask was originally buried.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: I see what you're doing here. Fish on! I actually need to go back to trolling because E will not engage and just pushes his dick pic idea. I engaged today for him alone.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Why did you stop? Because I wasn't entirely sold on the idea that the Sarmiento quote being used in 1982 was necessarily a specific reference to New Orleans because that's a tough one to come up with even in the internet age, and to extrapolate the meaning to be New Orleans and assign it immediately as such when the quote was about a Hotel that is model after St. Peter's cathedral, when there are other sovereign people and other St. Peter's-modeled cathedrals. For example, the quote by Herman Melville isn't a clue to directly reference the subject of the quote. We are supposed to identify the author of the quote and then use that to get us to Hermann Park. To say of Sarmiento, "This quote is about a hotel in New Orleans and therefore, this must mean the verse is New Orelans" was a subject I explored for a bit. That's all.

Come e... post something. I have some great memes loaded.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Why is your solution, or any solution for that matter, better? Cause it is a more accepted opinion of how to interpret the clues? Do you have more subjective images matches than E? Do you have a more elegant interpretation of the verse? Try this MB... which park is the Roanoke casque in? You sure? Again, can't be sure of anything, but I am very much of the opinion that you can put eyes on the Wright Bros monument from wherever the cask was originally buried. That said, there are only so many parks where this is possible. You do the math. I'll get back to you after my social network gets back to me on how viral the following tweet went: Treasure Forum Drama: 'article reporting Carolista Baum's help preserving the Life Saving Station that four21 drew a penis on' #pipedown

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Again, can't be sure of anything, but I am very much of the opinion that you can put eyes on the Wright Bros monument from wherever the cask was originally buried. That said, there are only so many parks where this is possible. You do the math. Multiply that by how many places in those parks it could be...

I'd like to know more about that symbol carved into the bench at the Elizabethan Gardens.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Multiply that by how many places in those parks it could be... Same team, dude. Same team. That wasn't the point either of us was making, I don't think.

erexere wrote:: I'd like to know more about that symbol carved into the bench at the Elizabethan Gardens. It looked pretty good to me. Something that could possibly be "Under that Which may be last touched Or first seen standing"

erexere wrote:: I'd like to know more about that symbol carved into the bench at the Elizabethan Gardens. You've got the innernets... go research. I'll bet you'll find it's connected to a wing somehow. Is it there, though? No, it's at Fort Raleigh. No, wait, it's at the Elizabethan Gardens. No, no, wait... it's at the lifesaving station. No, I got it this time, it's in... Seek and find. We know you can do it, e. We believe you. Now tell us how you know you are right? Or do you have to dig a few holes to do that? If it ain't there... then what? Dig some more holes?

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Something that could possibly be "Under that Which may be last touched Or first seen standing" Can you name something that it couldn't be?

Merlot Brougham wrote:: So where is it then since you seem so sure? Why, cause I asked a lot of questions? I am trying to get to the root of erexere.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: You've got the innernets... go research. I'll bet you'll find it's connected to a wing somehow. Is it there, though? No, it's at Fort Raleigh. No, wait, it's at the Elizabethan Gardens. No, no, wait... it's at the lifesaving station. No, I got it this time, it's in... Seek and find. We know you can do it, e. We believe you. Now tell us how you know you are right? Or do you have to dig a few holes to do that? If it ain't there... then what? Dig some more holes? So where is it then since you seem so sure?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Can you name something that it couldn't be? The quality of your trolling in this thread, because it was never standing on anything more stable than a bed of (very funny) mspaint pubes.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: The quality of your trolling in this thread, because it was never standing on anything more stable than a bed of (very funny) mspaint pubes. My dick is the last thing you will touch, bitch. And you know what, you are first gonna see this bad mofo standing.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: The quality of your trolling in this thread, because it was never standing on anything more stable than a bed of (very funny) mspaint pubes. Now seriously, name something that it couldn't be.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Can you name something that it couldn't be? Anything at the Life Saving Station

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Anything at the Life Saving Station I dunno... seems like if you were drowned/drowning, and somebody was trying to save your life, their station may be the last thing you touch (if you die) or the first thing you see standing (when you come back to).

Hirudiniforme wrote:: I dunno... seems like if you were drowned/drowning, and somebody was trying to save your life, their station may be the last thing you touch (if you die) or the first thing you see standing (when you come back to). When I think Stand, I think about the Alamo, and remember in Saving Private Ryan when they talked about the Alamo? Doesn't matter preiss was dead, because when I think of stands at the Alamo I think about music stands. When considering music you have both trebel and bass, but bass = base and what was the alamo but a base of operation? I used to play the game operation and I think Preiss probably did too and you had to take out a rib or you would get a buzz. What is a buzz though, but a flash? Flash Gordon once said, "Get me Lieutenant Ekhart". before her realized he was Jack Palance in Tim Burton's (a.k.a "The good") Batman. If you remember in Batman they were fighting at Axis Chemical. What if Preiss consulted Adam West about Chemicals only to realize he was getting ahead of himself by publishing his book before Tim Burton would film a good shootout scene at Axis Chemical. You might joke that Preiss wasn't going to "think about the future" as Ekhart says in the movie. But "the future" leads me to the fountain of youth, which is an obvious segue. but I suppose I should continue on in the Image. I figure one more half hit of this paper acid and I'll have this shit solved by sunrise, Eastern time. I'll report back after the "What if this never ends?" portion of the festivities settles down.

Merlot Brougham wrote:: When I think Stand, I think about the Alamo, and remember in Saving Private Ryan when they talked about the Alamo? Doesn't matter preiss was dead, because when I think of stands at the Alamo I think about music stands. When considering music you have both trebel and bass, but bass = base and what was the alamo but a base of operation? I used to play the game operation and I think Preiss probably did too and you had to take out a rib or you would get a buzz. What is a buzz though, but a flash? Flash Gordon once said, "Get me Lieutenant Ekhart". before her relized he was Jack Palance in Tim Burton's (a.k.a "The good") Batman. If you remember in Batman they were fighting at Axis Chemical. What if Preiss consulted Adam West about Chemicals only to realize he was getting ahead of himself by publishing his book before Tim Burton would film a good shootout scene at Axis Chemical. You might joke that Preiss wasn't going to "think about the future" as Ekhart says in the movie. But "the future" leads me to the fountain of youth, which is an obvious segue. but I suppose I should continue on in the Image. I figure one more half hit of this paper acid and I'll have this shit solved by sunrise, Eastern time. I'll report back after the "What if this never ends?" portion of the festivities settles down. Nuh-uh... my place is better than yours... cause... information!

MrSeabass wrote:: I don't see how any of this is related to CandyLand, the California Raisins, Betamax, my lawnmower, the color purple, or The Color Purple. Show me how your CandyLand solution works, and I'll show you my Green Bike solution. Let's argue till the flying monkeys come home. Yup. This is definitely what Preiss intended when he wrote clues he wanted us to solve...

Maybe the mace on the armor sleeve is a Visigothic Fair Folk symbol for being in the Lollipop Guild...

There was an interesting tidbit about puzzles today during the Comey press conference. It reminded me of this puzzle.

MrSeabass wrote:: I don't see how any of this is related to CandyLand, the California Raisins, Betamax, my lawnmower, the color purple, or The Color Purple. But all of this speculation makes me think of colors and Preiss was feeding you a red herring by discussing the color purple. Red and blue make purple. Something to think about. Sometimes columns look like cue sticks, and it all has to do with the Color of Money. Arguably the best of Paul Newman, but in the Hustler he drinks JTS BRown. JTS. If you take the T and the S and adjust by 10 and 9 letters accordingly, you get JJP. Perhaps the JJP's in the images aren't Palencars initials at all but just a cue that we need to ignore the McDonogh Statue in New Orleans altogether because of Mr Bingles. Speaking of bullshit suggestions that the match is anything other than the McDonough

Merlot Brougham wrote:: Speaking of bullshit suggestions that the match is anything other than the McDonough Does it matter if it is McDonough? Did it matter that the Italian garden objects were more in count and in prominence?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Does it matter if it is McDonough? Did it matter that the Italian garden objects were more in count and in prominence? Does it matter that 'The Burbs' is the greatest movie ever made? Get back at me when you know how to spell Mcdonoh, newb. You score an F- on the brilliant trap I set up for you to stumble right in to. "Which one of you puss heads is Brent Armstrong?"

I am genuinely interested in hearing your answers to the questions I've pose.

I have yet to hear an answer to a single one, including the original ones.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: I have yet to hear an answer to a single one, including the original ones. shoot. Be succinct. Been indulging in the devils lettuce but I will answer as you wish, as long as you aren't going to inhibit my quest to ascend the D squash ladder

Merlot Brougham wrote:: shoot. Be succinct. Been indulging in the devils lettuce but I will answer as you wish, as long as you aren't going to inhibit my quest to ascend the D squash ladder Seems like each of my questions was quite short... what's the problem?

Is this thread still about Image 3? (I agree that the Wing of the Wright Brothers National Memorial must be visible from the dig site on Roanoke Island.) Could the other challenges and questions be moved to a general methodolgy thread? (While the extreme interpretation of any single clue might apply to many different dig sites, it is the combination of clues and their most simple meanings that will overlap on the correct solution.) Should people take their bickering and personal attacks to private channels? (I've seen "answer my question" so many times, I've forgotten what the question was or to whom it was directed.) I think this casque is lost. We know where it was (within a reasonable range) and can mourn its loss to decades of change. The dead end does not nullify the road that got us there. No amount of elegant presentation of alternate theories will override the evidence that we already narrowed this one down correctly. (Other verses and images are maybe less solid, but let this one go.)

catherwood wrote:: I think this casque is lost. We know where it was (within a reasonable range)... Do tell!

Unknown: We know where it was (within a reasonable range) and can mourn its loss to decades of change We do? How exactly do we KNOW this? I only ask because the prevailing wisdom seems to be that the casque was originally at the overlook at the end of the Hariot Trail. Unfortunately, there are at least two problems with this theory. The first is that despite extensive research, I can find no evidence of anything that I am satisfied fits the description of "last touched, or first seen standing". And the second is that the overlook has been extensively dug, and continues to be searched to this day. I have been there myself 6 times, and each and every time I find evidence that earth is being moved. If the casque was there, and taken out whole at some point, I'd assume that there would be some record of the discovery somewhere. And if the casque was destroyed in the process, then I would assume that someone would have found some evidence of its existence. A bit of plastic or ceramic, something. I'm not really looking for an answer here, or trying to be argumentative for arguments sake. I'm just trying to point out that a lot of the things we think we KNOW may not, in fact, be true. Prime among them is the prevailing wisdom that change has made these puzzles unsolvable. Personally, I think at least 6 or 7 are still recoverable, in whole or in part. Including the one in Roanoke.

catherwood wrote:: Is this thread still about Image 3? (I agree that the Wing of the Wright Brothers National Memorial must be visible from the dig site on Roanoke Island.) Unknown: Could the other challenges and questions be moved to a general methodolgy thread? Unknown: While the extreme interpretation of any single clue might apply to many different dig sites, it is the combination of clues and their most simple meanings that will overlap on the correct solution. Unknown: Should people take their bickering and personal attacks to private channels? (I've seen "answer my question" so many times, I've forgotten what the question was or to whom it was directed.) Yes, all my questions have been directed about Image 3, but have occasionally broadened. No need. I wanna know why erexere's lifesaving station theory is wrong. Quick aside... I am in GGP looking for a casque and hit the clue, "first across." Prayerbook Cross, Crossover Dr., Padre statue, HWY 1 across the park, Pioneer Meadow? Can you tell me the most simple interpretation so that I can dig up a casque? Are they all equally as simple in your mind? What about other peoples' minds? What makes the lifesaving station wrong? What makes wherever you know it to be (or have been) right? In whose eyes is the meaning of the clues most simple? Ain't that the truth. I believe, however, I am going out of my way to only ask questions, which I am genuinely interested in hearing the answers to (or, at least others' theories as to the answer). My gut tells me that nobody will answer the questions because the answer to all of them is... "I don't know." THAT is why there is bickering. Nobody likes to admit his/her theory is equally as plausible as an Erexere's theory.

Unknown: Nobody likes to admit his/her theory is equally as plausible as an Erexere's theory. Or in this case, being off by 30 miles isn't a whole lot different that being off by 30 feet.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Or in this case, being off by 30 miles isn't a whole lot different that being off by 30 feet. Bingo. How'd you get to be so damned nice? You'd think I was the old curmudgeon. We should work together... I'll be the bad cop.

Should the question be "why do you think you are right?"

erexere wrote:: Should the question be "why do you think you are right?" Right about what? I haven't proffered anything.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: My gut tells me that nobody will answer the questions because the answer to all of them is... "I don't know." THAT is why there is bickering. Nobody likes to admit his/her theory is equally as plausible as an Erexere's theory. I am not sure what point you are trying to make with all this. Is it: 1. No point at all, just trolling through, and very frustrated. 2. We should stop discussing these puzzles, because no theory can be proven until a casque is found. 3. We should stop criticizing the craziest theories being put forth, because there is no proof that they are incorrect. 4. Something else not mentioned above. If it is #1, then there is nothing really for me to comment on that. If it is #2, I think the sharing of ideas can lead - and indeed has led - to a solution. So, I would disagree with theory #2. If it is #3, I have to side with Catherwood on this and disagree with it. I think there is enough of a "consensus" regarding general locations that a crazy theory that a treasure is in Oregon or Puerto Rico should be criticized or ignored. For example, we do not know for a certainty how the universe began, since no one has proven it yet. But are we therefore not allowed to criticize a theory that giant monkeys from another universe created where we live?

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Right about what? I haven't proffered anything. You asked questions and declared you had a genuine interest in a response. If you don't wish us to take you seriously, use different words. You asked direct questions of me, and I didn't answer them to your liking, because I found your questions posed more questions about how we conduct a conversation within the bounds of uncertainty and unjustified assumptions. I've shared a lot of theories, I think all of them are generally viewed as "bad" for a host of reasons mainly developed out of what we hold to be true of the Cleveland-Chicago paradigm. I'm fine with tossing a theory out, as long as there's sufficient reason to move on. I understand that people think 30 minute/mile range is unacceptable, but that doesn't sufficiently argue the points that Ive made: 1) Life Saving Station workers had a significant role in the First Flight, 2) "take the road" vs. "there is a road that leads to dark forest" gives us some latitude to consider traveling further south after passing Roanoke, 3) a spoon and a small pea-like sphere in it may be a clue to continue on to Pea Island. The question "how do you know you are right" seems rhetorical. If I recovered a casque, I would know I was right. Lobbying to answer this sort of question is dumb and it doesn't address or critique my points and it offers nothing of substance to the content of this image or verse 11.

Let's try this again, In December of 1977, the Dispatch news article reported on the efforts to preserve a Life Saving Station: https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= ... 2780&hl=en It would seem evident that book Abroad in America would be a resource to Byron Priess in his work to create this treasure hunt and it's tremendous that anyone would've discovered that without the help of a keyword search on the internet. In contrast, it's far more palatable to consider someone looking at Image 3 would recognize the shape of Roanoke and correctly guess Verse 11's tidbits about octave and oz would relate to the Wright Brothers and Baum. This same someone would be expected to have enough familiarity with the NC area that it's not terribly unlikely that they might've chanced across the December 22nd news article in their local newspaper. I'm biased at this point, but I wonder how likely it would be for someone like Priess to think of the Wizard of Oz and it's Munchkins if he had possibly and read the names "Baum" and "Midgett" in the same article. Despite all arguments that 30 minutes of travel from Roanoke is proof that my theory is crap, I think it's worth noting that the Life Saving Station workers were irrefutably part of the Wright Brother's famed history. hxxp://wrightstories.com/lifesavers-ser ... port-crew/ Hirudiniforme or anyone else can continue to distract with vapid argumentation, but someone who legitimately cares about this puzzle can consider that it's possible a December newspaper article about real events might enter into this.

Hariot trail overlook today.

Deuce wrote:: Hariot trail overlook today. Did you find a "that" to dig under? ... Perhaps you "overlooked" something.

No. I didn't really see anything that felt like "this is it". That's including the gardens, hariot, and the theater. I'm sure there's been a lot of changes in 35 years. I feel that any true marker is lost. I searched with the intent of taking numerous pics but there honestly wasn't really anything to see. The bench moves, there's new signage, trees have been cut, and the beach is pretty much gone.

Here's a fun one... look at the back of an old sign in front of the theatre... I forget what it says on the front, but you can look at the back of it and see it is a reused OLD sign...

Overlook view from beach.

MrSeabass wrote:: Thought I'd help give erexere a head start. How is this going to help? I don't see a penis anywhere...

https://youtu.be/Z-GZWpb-ojQ If you go to the 0:51 mark on this clip, you will see Image 3 in its original form, as drawn by John Jude Palencar. It is bigger than what is in the book! The hands in the book go outside the page border, but in the painting, there is much more to it, since the hands are within the painting. So, there may be clues in the original painting that are not in the book. Can anyone enhance this image? Thanks.

Really? How can you guarantee that? I disagree, and I think it would be a mistake to be so dismissive. This is what I think happened. John Jude Palencar is not going to waste his time painting areas of the picture that are not going to go in the book. It looks like what has been cut out is about an inch on each side, and some part of the bottom of the painting, which is significant. All of the paintings had to be shrunk down to book size to fit in the book. However, when this one was shrunk down, I believe that BP must have thought that many of the important clues, such as the faint and small clues near the bottom, were too difficult to see. So, the painting had to be made bigger, and the edges had to be sacrificed. He could not sacrifice the fingers, since they held a clue, and it would look bad to cut it off at the fingers, so that is why they go beyond the page. But the rest of the painting, on the left and right sides, and bit of the bottom (and maybe the top), had to be sacrificed. Now, I am guessing that since there are clues everywhere in the painting, there are probably at least a couple of clues that were cut out. Sure, most of the clues are still there, but I don't think all of them are. It certainly would be interesting to try and find out, if anyone can enhance the image. It certainly doesn't hurt to try.

Egbert wrote:: Really? How can you guarantee that? I disagree, and I think it would be a mistake to be so dismissive. This is what I think happened. John Jude Palencar is not going to waste his time painting areas of the picture that are not going to go in the book. It looks like what has been cut out is about an inch on each side, and some part of the bottom of the painting, which is significant. All of the paintings had to be shrunk down to book size to fit in the book. However, when this one was shrunk down, I believe that BP must have thought that many of the important clues, such as the faint and small clues near the bottom, were too difficult to see. So, the painting had to be made bigger, and the edges had to be sacrificed. He could not sacrifice the fingers, since they held a clue, and it would look bad to cut it off at the fingers, so that is why they go beyond the page. But the rest of the painting, on the left and right sides, and bit of the bottom (and maybe the top), had to be sacrificed. Now, I am guessing that since there are clues everywhere in the painting, there are probably at least a couple of clues that were cut out. Sure, most of the clues are still there, but I don't think all of them are. It certainly would be interesting to try and find out, if anyone can enhance the image. It certainly doesn't hurt to try. BP would certainly have had final approval on the published version of the artwork in the book. He employed JJP, not the other way around, and if I remember correctly, it was JJP's first published commission. I think it extremely unlikely that BP would have allowed clues to be lost when the image was cropped. If needed, he probably would have had JJP "move" the clues being cropped out by adding them further in toward the center of the painting.

You're making a lot of assumptions about the author, and the puzzle.

Sorry, I just do not understand this logic. Okay, I guess if someone does not want to bother trying to look for additional clues in a new piece of Image 3 that was just uncovered, that is his or her prerogative. I will keep trying though.

I'll offer an alternative theory. Judging from that low-rez video, the painting has nothing but blank walls behind the hands, all the way to the edge. Preiss rightly decided that it was better to draw attention to the hands by letting them be cut out, surrounded by white (instead of expensive ink!), and expand the rest of the image to fill the normal space. I could compare this to the technique used in comic book (graphic novel) page layout, where items which break the frame draw attention to them. The use of space can be an artistic choice. JJP painted an environment literally; BP enhanced the composition for his purpose.

It doesn't look like there is much detail in the borders of the original image, and I disagree that clues (however small) would have been removed. I think they simply agreed to crop the image so that what remained (including all the important stuff) could be presented in a slightly larger format.

Or we can just not assume anything and accept that the image given to us in the book is the image intended for the puzzle. We don't know why it was cropped...Brian could be right, maybe there was something in there that gave something away....maybe it did take away from other things, all we can know for sure is the image in the book is what is intended for us to use in solving the puzzle. If you want to break this down, the one thing you can debate which might lead somewhere is....that is a really good cropping job on the hands for that time period...so did he crop those hands out manually...with lines that good or did he repaint some, part, or all of the image?

For reference, here's a comparison of the printed version with the original (using a still posted here by James Renner). It is kind of interesting; always thought that was a weird shape to the left of the imp.

So to the left of the IMP, it is weird because, in my humble opinion, it is the actual map to the tree where the casque was buried. If you look at the crack in the wall and the shading appears to be in the shape of a tree similar to those found on Roanoke Island. as seen here: https://www.google.com/maps/place/Roano ... 84!6m1!1e1 I have been out to the Island twice. The leaves on those trees always appear to be in a constant state of wind blown to one side.

Going back to the OBX in a couple months. I believe this one was lost to the elements. But does anyone want/need any pics of the area? For real ideas only!! Sorry erexere I'm not gonna check under my beach house or in my daughters underpants because she like airplanes and the color green.

No prob. Have a good trip.

Given the new discovery that the jewels' value determined the difficulty, this has got to be one of the easier ones, right...? So it's really all been said, but here's another appeal to any future visitors. The great thing about Roanoke is that the site may still be undisturbed. It just might be recoverable. Here's another look at the extended canvas for Image 3 revealed by James Renner. The verse tells us that: A path beckons / To mica and driftwood Given the references to the Elizabethan Gardens, we know the casque isn't far away. And the water gate beyond it leading to the beach is a perfect fit for this line. We see a metal character, chains hanging off him, beckoning us on. He's blocking an archway leading to an open vista filled with blue. I reckon the whole thing is an abstract impression of that gate. As for "Under that / Which may be last touched / Or first seen standing" - well, I don't know. The gate is the last thing you touch when you leave the place, and someone's "gait" becomes visible when they stand. But it doesn't really matter. After all, half the clues in Chicago were wrongly interpreted but they still found the thing. As for whereabouts it is, perhaps where the character is pointing; towards the base of the left column. That's where I'd try digging, anyway. Perhaps outside, if inside is impossible. There are other subtle connections like this being January, which comes from Janus, the god of gates. Somewhere round there? It's got to be worth a look.

Unfortunately the area you circled no longer exists due to erosion. It's about a ten foot drop off now from the base of the gate to the water below.

That's a shame. I live close to Roanoke so the fact that it may be lost now is rather sad. I was about to try and get a permit and take the trip.

I know this has basically been solved but I still wanted to ask if anybody looked into the Run Hill State Natural Area located just south of the Wright Brothers Memorial? Which may be first seen and last touch makes me think of the dunes there, and the look north to the wing made me think of it also because it's located just south of the memorial. I know it's a major stretch as I'm basically just pulling from the verse, but maybe someone smarter might be able to dig deeper. Forgive me if it has already been discussed.

So I gotta ask, has everyone just competely dug out the area around the CRO tree at the Waterside Theater and not found it? MrBackstop

I've been there to dig but the ground is packed solid with clay, it always has been. The tree is made of metal too to oppose weathering. There is however a wooded area called the Thomas Hariot Trail that connects the CRO tree down a narrow path. You might have some luck digging there.

I don't know how I missed seeing this film back in the 80s, but the 1984 movie Brainstorm with Natalie Wood and Christopher Walken has a great ending where he drives onto the Wright Memorial grounds in the middle of the night to use a payphone for his modem. Sadly, he was VR-patched into the afterlife and unable to look North at the wing.

Just a random thought, but I was wondering if these might be stairs. (Not necessarily these ones.) In general, I think it's worth scouring these images for different perspectives and interpretations. I expect there are disguised dig confirmers we haven't seen yet.

I had read on the wiki that someone had dug at the watergate and even used GPR in that area from user Manteo. Manteo also mentioned the latch on the old gate had resemblance to a part of the suit of armor. Would love to see a pic of that. Anyone familiar with this recovery attempt?

What I like here is that the little goblin is proudly bearing the bubble-flower over it's head. This echoes the Litany of the Jewels nicely and helps lead us to a situation where we deal with overhead things or find another example of being proud or keeping some thing protected from danger by holding up off the ground. One word that conveys "lifting up" and "safety" is the word "bouy"- to raise up, or to warn or mark something in a water zone.

bumping the Roanoke thread for this recent view of the gate: https://twitter.com/DOOMer77/status/974857888035475457

Oops. Thanks catherwood. (Still from the video.)

Too bad. My understanding is that this area has been eroding for quite some time. ...Had anybody ever officially dug here in years past?

catherwood wrote:: bumping the Roanoke thread for this recent view of the gate: https://twitter.com/DOOMer77/status/974857888035475457 Unknown: Just spent three days in the shoes of @joshuagates and @JamesRenner searching for the Roanoke casque from “The Secret”. I’m very certain I found it’s location. Sad news is 5 1/2 feet of the spot washed away a few weeks ago, taking the casque with it. / The employees at the garden said they have no plans, whatsoever, to save the gate. If I were you, I’d reach out and see if they will allow you to sort through the rubble. It’s very possible the casque is under all of that. I was in a hurry, and should have added the text of the tweet, in case it ever disappears: also, thanks for the still image - i didn't know how to extract the video url.

Unknown: Had anybody ever officially dug here in years past? Forest Blight dug there in 2005. Considering how literal the Verse is, I doubt that he was the first. I know he wasn't the last. Nothing left there to dig. So if it was there, it's gone. It's a shame really. At the Elizabethan Garden, but not actually IN the EG actually made sense.

MrSeabass wrote:: Might want to contact the publishers or someone related to the book and let them know about it. If it was buried there afterall and apparently destroyed, showing them this evidence might waive the white flag in regards to this one. Hi MrSeabass, you might have missed the developments about there not being anybody who has the solves. The publishing company dissolved after BP died and the assets were bought. Specifically the company that bought the assets said they did not get the solutions as part of the purchase. There are re-print publishers, but they do not have the solutions either. The only way to find the answer is to find the casque and key

Unknown: Specifically the company that bought the assets said they did not get the solutions as part of the purchase. Sigh. Do people keep bringing this up because they think it's true, think it might be true, or just want it to be true? One day I will dig up a casque. Or, maybe I won't. But the day that I find out that the puzzle can be cheated is the last day that I devote to the effort. In the meantime, spring has sprung. It's digging season.

Unknown: When Siskel and I finally met BP, he ended up taking us to the bank vault in NYC where the jewels were kept. He also said the solutions to the puzzle were in the same drawer… I did not get to see the open drawer. He also said that there were no solutions in the drawer, and made the comment, "they must be in closet at home I guess," or something like that. Unknown: I regret to tell you that Byron kept all of the information about this book and the results to himself Unknown: According to John Colby from Brick Tower press, the jewels are still attainable. The only issue is that now you would have to physically show them the casque due to the fact that they have no idea where they are hidden The only info I remember seeing on the forum about BP's solutions is Egbert's original description of BP retrieving the jewels: ...a later post from Egbert where BP's wife said that she had no info... ...and a 2016 post from my4sonz giving a reply from John Colby of Brick Tower Press who bought the rights to the book... It's strange that they were never found, and maybe they're still out there somewhere. One day someone will pick up a dusty copy of The Adventures of Tom Sawyer in a second-hand bookshop and they'll be tucked inside the flyleaf.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Do people keep bringing this up because they think it's true, think it might be true, or just want it to be true? We keep bringing it up because people keep suggesting contacting the publisher to see if their solve is correct (without a casque in hand).

Unknown: We keep bringing it up... Let me try again. People (who IMO should know better) keep suggesting that other people (who may or may not know better) contact the publisher. Is this because they (the former) think it will do some good? Or is it because they (again, the former) think it might do some good, so, why not? Or is it because they (still the former) want it to do some good? I would hope that anyone else who is actively working the puzzle like I am would hope like I do that there is one, and only one way to know if your solve is correct. Digging up the casque, using only the information in the book, is the prize. Everything else is a distant second. Although I will admit that lunch with JJP while the price for the artwork that goes with the found casque is negotiated would be awesome as well.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Although I will admit that lunch with JJP while the price for the artwork that goes with the found casque is negotiated would be awesome as well. As I understand it due to new publishing agreements, the original paintings are no longer for sale that is different than it was before since Egbert was asked if he wanted to buy the original. but a few weeks ago someone contacted jjp about releasing the images as high quality posters and jjp's company spokesman said although they had them they no longer controlled the images and that the images were no longer for sale.

Unknown: the original paintings are no longer for sale Have either Andy or Brian contacted JJP recently and offered to buy the Cleveland artwork? How about the members of the Chicago group? I'll defer to a lawyer who has seen the publishing agreement of which you speak, but in the meantime, my sense is that JJP owns the original artwork and can dispose of it any way he sees fit. Otherwise, he probably would have destroyed them by now.

I'm going to give a quick solve for Roanoke Island. The major parts of this Image have been previously solved by years of hard work and I want to share the "map" I see on our Brassman in the artwork. First of all the Gate is not the spot for the Casque so I believe the erosion doesn't matter there, but it could matter if someone knows the spot I'm talking about. I'm basically standing in my dig spot in this photo: https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-K7jP2srD-qI/ ... 06-001.JPG This is the view looking into Overlook Terrace and the Sunken Garden with the Statue in the Center. The item in the foreground is the "Ancient Bird Bath" mentioned on some of the park brochures. Everyone has pretty much ignored this piece of the puzzle. Here is a map of the Elizabethan Gardens showing all the prominent areas. One area that is not labeled is my dig spot. https://outerbanksthisweek.com/sites/de ... k=xEbSSGSc Notice the small triangular shape on the map at the top to the right of the #13. This is the area to: Look north at the wing And dig To achieve By dauntless and inconquerable (Ancient Bird Bath) Determination Your goal. If you go to google earth and click on the 360 PHOTO you can see exactly the spot I'm indicating. The casque should be just to the West of the line created by walking from the statue in the middle of the #14 Sunken Garden through #11 Overlook Terrace and over the Ancient Bird Bath. So how did I come to this conclusion? Well, the map is right on the chest, stomach and waist of our Brassman. Start with the little circle in the center of the chest plate right under the neck, this is the #14 Statue in the center of the Sunken Garden. On Brassman's right chest plate is the indication of the area for the "#9 Mount and Well Head". On the left chest plate you can see the stippled look of the brass which is showing us part of the Hedge that surrounds the Sunken Garden. The smaller circles in the stippled area are open holes in the hedge. As you come down to the stomach and see the diamond shape, that is the center of the #11 Overlook Terrace where many weddings are held. The darker area around the highlighted stomach is just an indication of the treeline and bushes going around the sunny open area. The tiny circle on the map at the top of Overlook Gardens is the Ancient Bird Bath. At the bottom of the "path" on our Brassman just above the jewel is a small circle indicating the Ancient Bird Bath. The belt on our Brassman is actually more like an upside down crown. That is why you see Queen Elizabeth's hair coming out of it from underneath. But the belt is also showing us what is called the "Roanoke Path" in the park. The jewel on our Brassman is located just to the West of the Birdbath on the visual line from the Sunken Garden center statue. See how the path on our Brassman's body goes just to the left on the jewel in Image 3? The jewel part of the belt is the outlook area on the Roanoke Path. Now the question is, did any erosion get up that high on that part of the Elizabethan Gardens? It appears to have more shore over there than what the area around the Gate did. But that is impossible to tell without being on the ground. Anyone ready to go check this spot out? Or has it already been searched? I can't find anything other than just now searching for Overlook Terrace and seeing that WhiteRabbit mentioned Overlook Terrace and his brainstorming on Page 22 back in 2011.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Have either Andy or Brian contacted JJP recently and offered to buy the Cleveland artwork? How about the members of the Chicago group? I'll defer to a lawyer who has seen the publishing agreement of which you speak, but in the meantime, my sense is that JJP owns the original artwork and can dispose of it any way he sees fit. Otherwise, he probably would have destroyed them by now. An email (copied from FB) Hello Justin - Thank you for the kind words and your interest in Mr. Palencar’s art for “The Secret - A Treasure Hunt”. Regrettably, the copyright for all of the art produced for this book is owned by another publishing entity that purchased the copyrights, catalog and intellectual property rights formerly owned by Byron Priess Visual Publications. This contract prohibits Mr. Palencar from merchandising or distributing these particular images as prints or in any other method. Mr. Palencar was a loyal friend & business associate to Mr. Preiss. Beyond his past friendship with Mr. Preiss, the existing contract(s) legally prevent him from imparting any information as to the locations of the treasures. That being said, Mr Palencar does not know the locations to any of the remaining treasures. The Travel Channel & Expedition Unknown had to secure the art reproduction rights & permissions for the “Secret" paintings from the other business entity for use on the television program. We will not reveal the name of the new publisher/ business entity. The original paintings for this book are not currently for sale. Thank you again for your interest. Good luck hunting. Sincerely, J. Parker Antrim Assistant to Mr. Palencar

Thanks MF. So it sounds like JJP doesn't have the rights to merchandise the images, and currently isn't minded to sell the originals. If people were interested in posters I guess they'd need to persuade Colby.

Unknown: and determining if the conclusion you came up with ties to that tightly defined spot that is now destroyed and gone Back when the book came out, this eventuality was considered, and there was an option if you found yourself in this situation: "You may also send an inquiry if you believe you have determined the location of a treasure but are unable to explore it in person." I think finding that your spot has been inextricably altered by man or nature qualifies, since it would prevent you from "exploring". However, Preiss himself let it be known to multiple people back in 2004-2005 that this option was no longer relevant. So by the rules in place today, there really is no difference at all.

Unknown: and currently isn't minded to sell the originals I don't think he was ever minded to sell the originals to anyone but the finder of the casque associated with that Image. Now that I have seen the original artwork associated with Montreal, I understand better why that is. Digging up the casque entitled the finder to it, a jewel, and a special signed copy of the book (probably the hardbound version that 421 had). I think it also entitled that person to purchase the original artwork, assuming they were willing to meet JJP's price.

MrBackstop wrote:: ...As you come down to the stomach and see the diamond shape, that is the center of the #11 Overlook Terrace where many weddings are held. The darker area around the highlighted stomach is just an indication of the treeline and bushes going around the sunny open area. The tiny circle on the map at the top of Overlook Gardens is the Ancient Bird Bath... Just trying to be helpful here, but, I don't think many people will follow these kinds of verbal instructions. There are tons of theories posted all the time, a lot of them highly implausible, and if you really want to convince someone to dig you're going to have to present a case that's easy to see at a glance and also pretty convincing, without someone having to pore over a copy of the book and a copy of the map to try and figure out what you mean.

I was trying to help people visualize the map that is right in front of them. I don't really see how this is difficult to follow.

MrBackstop wrote:: I was trying to help people visualize the map that is right in front of them. I don't really see how this is difficult to follow. MrBackstop wrote:: ....Start with the little circle in the center of the chest plate right under the neck, this is the #14 Statue in the center of the Sunken Garden. On Brassman's right chest plate is the indication of the area for the "#9 Mount and Well Head". On the left chest plate you can see the stippled look of the brass which is showing us part of the Hedge that surrounds the Sunken Garden. The smaller circles in the stippled area are open holes in the hedge. As you come down to the stomach and see the diamond shape, that is the center of the #11 Overlook Terrace where many weddings are held. The darker area around the highlighted stomach is just an indication of the treeline and bushes going around the sunny open area. The tiny circle on the map at the top of Overlook Gardens is the Ancient Bird Bath. At the bottom of the "path" on our Brassman just above the jewel is a small circle indicating the Ancient Bird Bath. The belt on our Brassman is actually more like an upside down crown. That is why you see Queen Elizabeth's hair coming out of it from underneath. But the belt is also showing us what is called the "Roanoke Path" in the park. The jewel on our Brassman is located just to the West of the Birdbath on the visual line from the Sunken Garden center statue. See how the path on our Brassman's body goes just to the left on the jewel in Image 3? The jewel part of the belt is the outlook area on the Roanoke Path.... With two maps OK...fair enough...so you're suggesting something like this...? Speaking of crowns...I wonder if the original 1982 map had a crown on it like that modern one. That might be an area worth looking at. Fairies of England proudly bear Garnet, crown-jewel of their Queen

Exactly. Right where the jewel is on the Brassman should be a great spot to poke on the small viewing deck off the Roanoke path. Thank you.

MrBackstop wrote:: Exactly. Right where the jewel is on the Brassman should be a great spot to poke on the small viewing deck off the Roanoke path. Thank you. Great! Just for fun, here's another version... The breastplate symbol on the right is "Soda" or Sodium, atomic number 11... ....and the crown is compass crown. Depends what the original map looked like though. Either way, I quite like breastplate-map and litany-crown connections.

MrBackstop wrote:: If you go to google earth and click on the 360 PHOTO you can see exactly the spot I'm indicating. The casque should be just to the West of the line created by walking from the statue in the middle of the #14 Sunken Garden through #11 Overlook Terrace and over the Ancient Bird Bath. This is the view from the Google photo, including bird bath and gazebo.

Don’t forget this one.

(glad to have the forum back online) Where you say the symbol on the right shoulder is "soda" I would disagree. Yours has straight lines (like II or 11 as you said), but the armor has outwardly bending lines. I remember someone pointing out a long time ago that a map icon meaning "bridge" was a closer match (try a google image search using "map symbol bridge" terms). Maybe it could mean footpath somewhere as well.

MrSeabass wrote:: I can only view the forum on my phone. Desktop still gives me a 500 error. and I don't have a phone, but i've viewing this on my destop without trouble. (I'm on an older version of Firefox, if that's relevant) ... You could try changing the URL by either adding or removing the 'www' portion.

MrSeabass wrote:: I can only view the forum on my phone. Desktop still gives me a 500 error. Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Back when the book came out, this eventuality was considered, and there was an option if you found yourself in this situation: "You may also send an inquiry if you believe you have determined the location of a treasure but are unable to explore it in person." I think finding that your spot has been inextricably altered by man or nature qualifies, since it would prevent you from "exploring". However, Preiss himself let it be known to multiple people back in 2004-2005 that this option was no longer relevant. So by the rules in place today, there really is no difference at all. Still loving those Elizabethan Garden potential matches. Is there somewhere in the map that wouldn't technically be in the gardens, like a footpath leading up to them or something? I had the same issue. I had to google "quest 4 treasure secret forum" and then click the link. I think the error is it logged everyone out, but the redirect isn't happening on some pages. Well, technically it legally still was a relevant option. One can't say, "buy my book and I'll reveal $ treasure to you if you fulfill this requirement," then say "whoops, now that you've bought my book I'm no longer going to do that." It's classic bait-and-switch. But now that the rights were transferred without solutions, obligations probably get murky. However, I just think BP knew that people weren't going to be so weird as to file a lawsuit over a $1,000 prize from 20+ years ago, and kind of wanted this to go away (without having to, you know, return the money he made from the book). Most people didn't want to know the answer straight out, just to know when it had been destroyed like possibly with the children's zoo. Still wish he would've shown a little more initiative in tracking down those missing solves, so we could know when one had been destroyed.

Unknown: Still wish he would've shown a little more initiative in tracking down those missing solves The list of things that are often repeated, but I think are mostly nonsense is pretty long, but the "missing solves" is near the top of that list. It's not that he couldn't be involved because, you know, he forgot where he buried these things. It's that he didn't want to be involved. Hardly any upside, and way too much downside for a busy guy who had moved on at least 15 years before people started looking again.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: The list of things that are often repeated, but I think are mostly nonsense is pretty long, but the "missing solves" is near the top of that list. It's not that he couldn't be involved because, you know, he forgot where he buried these things. It's that he didn't want to be involved. Hardly any upside, and way too much downside for a busy guy who had moved on at least 15 years before people started looking again. GReat point. And even so, I'd be totally fine with it if losing the solutions didn't ensure him possession of $10,000 worth of jewels. Just find the solves, get a personal assistant to do everything else: start giving out heavy clues and responding to inquiries and mailing out prizes... Within a month he'd probably never have to hear about it again.

Unknown: Within a month he'd probably never have to hear about it again. Or, just do what he did, and keep the jewels. And lest you think that I think it was all about the money, my way let him keep the integrity of the puzzle intact, which was probably more important to him. People can choose to believe whatever they want DN, but I believe that if anyone had come to him in the early days of the revival with a complete solve, he would have given them the same help he gave the Chicago group. When that didn't happen, he washed his hands of it...again.

catherwood wrote:: (glad to have the forum back online) Where you say the symbol on the right shoulder is "soda" I would disagree. Yours has straight lines (like II or 11 as you said), but the armor has outwardly bending lines. I remember someone pointing out a long time ago that a map icon meaning "bridge" was a closer match (try a google image search using "map symbol bridge" terms). Maybe it could mean footpath somewhere as well. Q4T went down and I thought it was a dream... "but it wasn't a dream, it was a place, and you, and you, and you, and you were there... and I remember that some of it wasn't very nice, but mostly it was beautiful. But just the same, all I kept saying to everybody was, I want to go home... oh Auntie Em, there's no place like home!"

So where is this armored and red soaked fabric stuffed scarecrow leading us?

erexere wrote:: So where is this armored and red soaked fabric stuffed scarecrow leading us? To eat brains

drunknerds wrote:: To eat brains Lol, ain't that the truth.

Hi Roanoke - I'm working on Boston and am wondering if you found any significance to the bubbles? You have 3 and we have 2 but can't find any reasoning for them. Are they possibly landmarks once you find the dig site? Any insight is appreciated!

its not red soaked fabric its the carolina allspice.

Haarstick wrote:: Hi Roanoke - I'm working on Boston and am wondering if you found any significance to the bubbles? You have 3 and we have 2 but can't find any reasoning for them. Are they possibly landmarks once you find the dig site? Any insight is appreciated! I've read all the threads in all the messageboards, and I've never seen anything I really liked. Maybe I missed something though, maybe someone can share a good theory.

obviously you missed my solve XD

Haarstick, The bubble gives the flower the power of flight. It may even act as a circular safety device, like one of those floaty donuts, the "Kisbie" ring.

anus905 wrote:: obviously you missed my solve XD And obviously you continue to demonstrate that you cannot add anything of value to this forum. You see that a question was asked, then you mock someone's attempt to help in their answer, then you decide to hit the reply button, and yet you still provide nothing of substance, just your snide remark. Further proving your standpoint was/is never meant to "HELP" anyone. Also, you do not have a solve, you have an idea, which is only a prospective solve.

atdreamer2112 wrote:: Q4T went down and I thought it was a dream... "but it wasn't a dream, it was a place, and you, and you, and you, and you were there... and I remember that some of it wasn't very nice, but mostly it was beautiful. But just the same, all I kept saying to everybody was, I want to go home... oh Auntie Em, there's no place like home!" they were scrubbing my comments lol.

i add loads get outta here. ive not gone to boston so im not obligated to reveal what i know to you...sorry.

i released complete solution for this and they deleted it!!!!!

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Forest Blight dug there in 2005. To his infinite regret, Forest Blight did *not* dig there. He has dug only in Milwaukee.

forest_blight wrote:: To his infinite regret, Forest Blight did *not* dig there. He has dug only in Milwaukee. Hey forest_blight, I'm in your stomping grounds. Sadly, there are no bridge marker plates, only stubs of Iron where they used to be attached. Not sure why I am posting this in the Image 3 thread.

Unknown: Forest Blight did *not* dig there. My apologies FB. I must have been confusing you with another poster from that time (nodon?), or someone else entirely. Over the last 12-14 years, the Water Gate has been a very popular place to explore and dig.

I've had a few requests for this so here it it. I finally found the link I needed. https://www.360cities.net/image/roanoke ... an-gardens

the lookout on the nature trail?

That trail is the one by the Gazebo. It's called Roanoke trail. The spot is just to the west of the Gate.

i thnk its called the Thomas Harriot trail or something of that nature. but yea, i did it. i actually have a vid of me walking the whole thing lol.

Unknown: i thnk its called the Thomas Harriot trail No. The Harriot Trail is in Fort Raleigh proper, between the EG and the Theater. It starts and ends near the fort and takes you out to several places where you can access the beach, including the Overlook. It might be represented by the elongated loop in the image, right below the key hanging from the knight's left arm. It's an unlikely place for Preiss to have buried the casque IMO. But not nearly as unlikely as anywhere actually in the Elizabethan Gardens, which is where the panorama picture that Backstop posted was taken (north of the Sunken Garden and east of the Gazebo, on the bluff that separates the garden from the beach).

ahhh gotcha. you cant even access Elizabethan Gardens half the year.

Unknown: you cant even access Elizabethan Gardens half the year Well, if by half you mean from the time it closes for the day (3-6 PM, depending on the month) to the time it opens the next day (9-11 AM, again depending on the month), then yes, technically it is closed for more than half the calendar year, including all of February. It's still accessible though, just not through the front door. Point being, if Preiss did bury the casque inside the EG, there is no reason for him to have done it during normal business hours.

its not there cause it very specifically does not fit the clues lol...you do go through it. but the treasure is not there. the verse very clearly says circle then square not square then circle, so its not even debatable as far as I'm concerned.

drunknerds wrote:: I've read all the threads in all the messageboards, and I've never seen anything I really liked. Maybe I missed something though, maybe someone can share a good theory. May seem silly, but when I think bubbles... I think children playing. Could both of these casques be buried in the vicinity of a playground?

Speaking of children, in 1980 Mr. Rogers aired the opera, "Windstorm in Bubbleland" Perhaps these casks are buried somewhere where there is wind

Unknown: Perhaps these casks are buried somewhere where there is wind Plenty of wind in and around Fort Raleigh. Not so much as a swing set, unless you count the ones in the yards across Dare Avenue.

he was trolling you XD

Unknown: he was trolling you There's a lot of that going around. All part of the plan Josh. All part of the plan.

Just wanted to post this here since I'm working on it elsewhere with a couple searchers. The "Morning Star" (pointed ball on the right wrist) First I see it as an important time clue taking us back to a period in which "Morning Stars" were used as weapons. But most importantly, it represents the Wright Brothers Memorial. The Memorial is a big, beautiful, circular-domed hill which can appear to be half a ball sticking out of the ground. The base is a huge star with a circle in the center....this is the inspiration for the "Morning Star" on the arm. Imagine if your hand was big enough to grab the WBM by the upWright (see what I did there) portion and pull it off the ground. It would be similar to holding a "Morning Star" in your hand. Any other thoughts?

Where is the Morning Star? What is it? How does it represent the Wright Brothers memorial?

drunknerds wrote:: Where is the Morning Star? What is it? How does it represent the Wright Brothers memorial? morning star being a medevil weapon, that looks kinda like the thing on the arm/shoulder, right, of the painting...the memorial from above kinda looks like one stuck in the ground, if you were a giant.

This reminded me of image 3,

Merlot...

drunknerds wrote:: Where is the Morning Star? What is it? How does it represent the Wright Brothers memorial? The morning star is the spiked ball on the right wrist. Someone had mentioned how they believed the extended arms represent the Wright Bros plane and the arms also represent the outer banks. In that thought process of the Outer Banks I can see how the WBM could be the morning star that you would see in the distance while standing on Roanoke Island. Just under that in Image 3 is the bat wing holding the circle with the key. The circle is very similar to the circle on the old maps of Outlook Terrace in Elizabethan Gardens.

erexere wrote:: This reminded me of image 3, Nice.

I saw some pictures in the Roanoke Facebook group this afternoon and thought the original poster (OP) was on to something. The OP was saying that from the light tower at Waterside Theatre (close to the CRO tree) you can see the Wright brothers monument and the light tower was previously separate from the fort structure that the lights are attached to now. Could Preiss have buried underneath the old light tower before it was removed and attached to undiggable fort structure? I'm fairly new to this hunt, so I don't know if this is a previously searched theory.

RourkeSavage wrote:: I saw some pictures in the Roanoke Facebook group this afternoon and thought the original poster (OP) was on to something. The OP was saying that from the light tower at Waterside Theatre (close to the CRO tree) you can see the Wright brothers monument and the light tower was previously separate from the fort structure that the lights are attached to now. Could Preiss have buried underneath the old light tower before it was removed and attached to undiggable fort structure? I'm fairly new to this hunt, so I don't know if this is a previously searched theory. I recently re-read this entire thread and I'm pretty sure the light-fixture being moved was never covered. Nice job! Can we find more info about the 1980 location of the light tower? Isn't that the one that is kinda represented by the support holding up the knights (stage) left arm? I kinda like light tower for "last touched but first seen standing..." although you could massage in almost anything to fit that vague description. Also, welcome! Be sure to wear a poofy dress so you don't fall too fast down the Secret rabbit hole.

Check these pictures out and look closely at the separate light tower. The photo of the sign was taken in 2011, but not sure how old the photo of the theatre is. Image 1: https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6033/5910022337_4e0ce7fbb7.jpg , Image 2: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51AZLGdz5gL.jpg

RourkeSavage wrote:: Check these pictures out and look closely at the separate light tower. The photo of the sign was taken in 2011, but not sure how old the photo of the theatre is. Image 1: https://c1.staticflickr.com/7/6033/5910022337_4e0ce7fbb7.jpg , Image 2: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51AZLGdz5gL.jpg Thanks! The thing on the right? Yeah, I see it. Is there any on-the-ground evidence remaining of the light towers 1980 location?

1950ish https://i.imgur.com/sf3sHGj.jpg I think the old light towers location is paved over now. It's hard to tell. its possible they are in nearly the same spot. If they are, they have concrete footers. In fact most of the theater is about 8 inches of dirt over concrete or wood.

I'll look tomorrow if the weather is better. I don't actually see lights in your photo. I think the show used to be a daylight only show.

oh you are talking about the steel towers. my bad.

Yes the lights used to be on steel towers separate from the fort structures on each side of theater. I believe in the 80s the light towers were separate and at some point along the way the lights were placed on top of the fort structures and the tall steel towers were removed.

RourkeSavage wrote:: Yes the lights used to be on steel towers separate from the fort structures on each side of theater. I believe in the 80s the light towers were separate and at some point along the way the lights were placed on top of the fort structures and the tall steel towers were removed. Still, I think you were right on when you noted most of the place was shallow dirt over wood and rock. I'd imagine the light tower was on a similar platform in 1980, which means it couldn't be under it

Found something new to me. A plus sign below the spoon next to the tea bag. Spoon plus tea???

Is it significant that NC is the #1 producer of mica in the US and it is found almost entirely in the blue ridge mountains due west of the dark forest? Seems like a path that becomes could lead us west towards the shore instead of north. I’m new to this forum, so I’m just throwing something out there.

dizalot wrote:: Found something new to me. A plus sign below the spoon next to the tea bag. Spoon plus tea??? I still dont understand why folks keep thinking tiny anomalies such as this are meaningful. I think we could find any image we want by looking at individual pixels. Just my two cents though.

I don't understand why guys who have failed to find a casque for so long piss on new ideas

dizalot wrote:: I don't understand why guys who have failed to find a casque for so long piss on new ideas You could have chosen anyone on this forum to say that to.... and you chose fox.... Also the plus sign is not in the book.

Unknown: I don't understand why guys who have failed to find a casque for so long piss on new ideas Because you fail to make the distinction between new ideas that are good, and new ideas that aren't (good or new, take your pick). Be that as it may, there is nothing stopping anyone from taking an idea, working through it with other like-minded searchers, and probing (and/or digging) where that leads if they are so inclined.

Hi everyone, Has anyone in North Carolina found a good contact person, number or process for obtaining a permit to dig? Was anyone on the board issued a permit to dig in 2019? If so, how did you do it? Thanks in advance for any help.

BINGO wrote:: ... Fairy pointers come in twos? ... but it seems like a possible method to greatly narrow down a search area or path to look. Do the other images have similar pointers, possibly in pairs? The pocket watch seems to be inside a bubble. The bubble near it is on top of a stone. This may point to a sundial.

BINGO wrote:: I was simply making a distinction between a clue and shit. Wasn’t attempting to distinguish the importance of said clue/shit either. It’s very possible that I just worded it incorrectly. My bad. Much better! Take you chill pill. Might need help lifting it!

BINGO wrote:: No disagreement with anything stated here. I was simply making a distinction between a clue and shit. Wasn’t attempting to distinguish the importance of said clue/shit either. It’s very possible that I just worded it incorrectly. My bad. No, no, no... don't apologize. Argue. If you think the clue is shit, say so, but be prepared to defend it when somebody asks why. I completely understood what you were doing (i.e., trying to make a distinction between a clue and shit). I think I was the one who was misunderstood (as is often the case). I was pointing out that there are many different types of clues in these puzzles - something that anyone from any particular proclivity might be able to find. Some sports fan can find a Bears logo, some Classic Concentration fan sees a rebus, an architect sees a building, a coder finds some coordinates, an English professor finds a lit clue, and an art major notices a painting... Just because YOU don't see the clue and somebody else does doesn't make it shit. A theory that makes sense to you may make little sense to somebody else. There's a lot of arguing about one theory being "a better fit" or a "closer match," but don't you realize that the rationale depends on YOUR proclivity? Who's to say that JJP wasn't instructed by Byron to make some stupid rebus of Car-O-Line-A, and that is how JJP worked it in? Certainly not me. I have no idea. If someone sees it, they see it. If Erexere is the only one on the board that sees a rock in Oregon, does that mean a casque isn't there? The point is, most every interpretation of any clue that has been offered on this board is subjective. How can you venture to argue with ANYBODY'S interpretation of a clue when your own is just as subjective and based on your own bias? I don't care how outlandish sounding a theory about a particular clue or a puzzle in general is, there is no amount of argument that can settle whether it is shit or not - that is, when both sides are arguing using subjectivity. Consensus doesn't equate with truth and, well, in truth be free.

just art

Heading to OBX/Roanoke for a family vacation for a few days and to dig for a casque with permission (most likely early morning Friday August 16 or Saturday August 17)! Have a solid ‘solve’ that is neither Elizabethan Gardens nor Wright Brothers Memorial. If I have learned anything from prior digs for other casques, it is that I will need help digging (and, as noted below, possibly need a lot of help for this casque)—BINGO can vouch for me in this regard! If I am correct, the specific object ‘under’ which the casque was buried in 1981 is no longer there. I should be able to get to the right spot based on other objects still there from 1981, but we may need to dig up a broader area to make sure we don’t just miss the spot. Let me know if you will be in the area and willing to help—the more, the merrier.

Unknown: Heading to OBX/Roanoke for a family vacation for a few days and to dig for a casque with permission The best of luck to you. Having vacationed in the Outer Banks for over 20 years, I know that you and your family will have a wonderful time, regardless of whether the dig produces a casque.

Always thought Pear Pad was an odd name for a road in North Carolina. Apparently there's a pretty good reason for it. I bet there was a sign somewhere in the park in 1982 that talks about this plant. Maybe it's still there even now... Place Names of the Outer Banks , Roger L Payne, 1985 https://books.google.com/books?id=rGATAAAAYAAJ&q=%22roanoke%22+%22pear+pad%22&dq=%22roanoke%22+%22pear+pad%22&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjJlo-Dk-XjAhWEq1kKHS8yA7AQ6AEIOTAD

We have those here in Sonoma all over the place. They're called prickly pear cactus and the leaves are called pad. I think that whole spoon, pea and teabag is the confirmer of Fort Raleigh area. The 'teabag' being a dogtag.

Choice wrote:: We have those here in Sonoma all over the place. They're called prickly pear cactus and the leaves are called pad. I think that whole spoon, pea and teabag is the confirmer of Fort Raleigh area. The 'teabag' being a dogtag. Hmm. Never thought it was much of a teabag. My interpretation is that it was a pear pad. That in combination with the spoon is a reference to the name of the road shaped like a spoon. Pear Pad road.

Your pear pad may have a hole on top of it with chain running through it. In either case it gets us to the same Fort Raleigh area.