Quest4Treasure Archives

It's a real treat to see this one revived. I also see that somebody went through the trouble of digging up some of my old posts about this one on the American Treasure Hunt BB. I hope that hunters do not take my conclusions of Pennsylvania, Yellowstone Park, Washington DC, etc., as gospel.  They were just guesses on my part at that time. I do feel that image six does relate to Florida. The empty space on the right of the picture ( not the rock upside-down )is a very good respresentation of the west coast of FL, with the rock being the Gulf of Mexico. Also, Ponce de Leon was searching for Fountain of Youth, which is supposedly located in St. Augustine, located on the east coast of Fl.  They do have a 'fake' fountain there ( really just a trickeling natural spring ) set up for tourists. Maybe the palm tree in the pic shows the town location? Or the circular area in Ponce's flag? I do think that the stone in each pic depicts the jewel to be found, not an indicator of where it is. I also believe that pic 12 is New York, which is strange because the flower for New York is the rose, which is in pic 1. Also, page 10 ( not pic 10 or verse 10 ) in the book has a map showing the lines of travel used by the fairies when they left Europe.  Maybe these lines extend across to cities in the US? Well, I still have my copy of the book, which I pulled out and re-read when I saw all these posts.  It bought back many memories. I do live in NYC and would be glad to search out any potential sites for any hunters with a firm guess of a site in the city.

Glad to have you onboard King.  We WILL solve this thing if it takes us........who knows how long.

Thanks for the welcome. Stupid me, I just took a cruise to Key West in March and found out that President Truman like to stay there. Here's a link on the subject: hxxp://www.trumanlittlewhitehouse.com/ ( 'White house close at hand' from verse 6?) It also seems that this is the island where Ponce de Leon died too. hxxp://floridakeys.com/keywest/history.htm The island used to survive off of piracy.  The islanders would light false signals and cause ships to crash into the rocks, where they would plunder their cargo. ( first five lines of verse 6? ) The same area has Ernest Hemingway's house, and the Audubon house. ( 'stand and listen to the birds' from verse 6 ) War was declared on Spain in the custom's house in the same area after the Maine was sunk in Cuba. ( 'freedom at the birth of a century' from verse 6 ) Here are some other local attractions: hxxp://floridakeys.com/keywest/thingsto ... ctions.htm Long palm shadow could be a tree, or the shadow of an extended hand from a local statue, at a certain time of day? Any thoughts?

Once you get rolling, you can't stop. Tennessee Williams lived in Key West.  His mother's name was Edwina! I wonder if he had any nieces or nephews named after he died? Or maybe local residents? ( 'Edwin and Edwina named after him' verse 6 ) I seems that Key West was a writers' mecca. ( 'Harken to the words:' verse 6 ) The semicolon is unusual, since the verse has no other punctuation.  Maybe the lines following each relate to a writer that lived there? Henry Flagler, the famous developer of Florida, who extended the Florida over-sea railroad to Key West in 1912, died in May, 1913. ( 'Or May 1913' verse 6 ) The search continues...

Fort Zachary Taylor Beach and Park lies behind the Truman Annex ( the little white house ) in Key West.  In fact, you must pass through the Annex to get to the beach. The Fort there was once a desalinization plant ( 'Hear the cool, clear song of water' verse 6 ) Now, if I can only get the last bit: Or on the eighth a scene Where law defended Between two arms extended Below the bar that binds Beside the long palm's shadow Embedded in the sand Awaits the Fair remuneration Jetties at each end of the beach? Below a binding bar? Next to the shadow of a long palm tree? Buried in the sand. Gotta keep digging...

Wow, Very good finds GP.  Many folks did indeed feel this V was for FL but some of your finds seem to confirm it even more.  Now, like you said, we just have to decipher the last of the V and see how it, matched with a P leads us directly to the burial site.  I cant wait until I get home (been out of town for a week) to do some more digging on this one.

Thanks for all your thoughts, GP.  Since some of your posts relate to verse 6, I copied and pasted them to the verse 6 thread, just to keep things organized.  Here is Image 6, btw:

Just a little rambling.  Isnt it looking more and more obvious that this P leads us to FL?  What more is needed?  The Palm Tree, the Spanish Conquistador (possibly Senor de Leon himself) & the re-occuring shape of the state itself.  I know, it isnt the EXACT outline of FL (that would be too easy) but saying the rock/mountain doesnt "resemble" the state is ludicrous.  Also, as pointed out by GPKing, the space to the right of the rock/mnt is of similar shape to FL & look at the cloud in the upper right of the P....yep, this too is quite similar to the outline of the state. If this P does NOT lead us to FL, I will gladly eat my Cabasset.  Which leads me to something else I found....Sr. de Leon isnt wearing a Cabasset as I had first thought.  The Cabasset is the spanish styled armor helmet which conquistadors wore.  What the P shows is actually a Comb-Morion. (quite similar to the Cabasset but Mistaken by many to be a Spanish helmet, this style of Morion was actually designed and exported by the Italians the true Spanish Morion is the Cabasset).   Any Italians invade/conquer FL ?  ???  8)

Hey fox I know that it's possible to pick any city in the US and, if you try hard enough, you can make any of the verses fit. After re-reading my posts, I can see some really big stretches of my imagination.  It was fun, though. Here's another real stretch. The rock down in the lower right hand corner suggests something reflected.  I  photocopied the original picture and folded it in half.  Make sure that the edges meet perfectly. When held up to a very strong light, the tip of Ponce's flag ends directly on the edge of the small bump in the lower right of the picture. I know that this is not a real clue, but thought it was weird.

I understand what you mean about picking any US city and forcing items to match, but that is not what I've done.  I have simply stated that everything in the P (including the numerous times the state outline occurs) seems to point to FL.  I'm sure if I randomly chose a FL city, I could make it somehow fit.  What we need to do now is actually locate the city.

Unknown: ..but saying the rock/mountain doesnt "resemble" the state is ludicrous... just to be clear, the rock itself isn't obviously FL-shaped, but the negative space it creates in the right half of the picture is most definitely FL-shaped. Also to be clear, the palm tree is a palm tree because it is pictured as a palm tree.  The image (or as rbfox likes to abbreviate, the P) is pointing to Florida. The point where we diverged is in the assumption that the word "palm" in a VERSE would necessarily link to a tree.  I still want to keep the discussion of verses and pictures separate. The next step is to narrow it down to a particular city.  I think the pictures will all lead to a single city (if not a specific park or location in that city), and thus P6 must tell us more than just "florida". Saturday is rather filled for me, but *maybe* i can get those scans online on Sunday.

I believe this image falls under the following theme: September?(can't see a time) Sapphire Aster Spanish Theme "The Hadas of Iberia: Sapphire, shy as a wild field flower." The flowers, difficult to make out, appear to be Aster: hxxp://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:fRxE4qirWaMC:plantsdatabase.com/imagesbyuser.php%3Fuser%3DCrimson+aster+%22morning+glory%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8 Also, Aster is local plant of North Central Florida.  8) hxxp://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:qQALedLcuFkC:www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herbarium/locfl/locfvine.htm+aster+%22morning+glory%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

A friend of mine sees the following images in Image 6: 1. a hawk with the gem as its eye 2. an upside-down shield with a chevron 3. a cartoonish bloodhound that resembles Hannah-Barbara's character "Droopy."

Unknown: A friend of mine sees the following images in Image 6: 1. a hawk with the gem as its eye 2. an upside-down shield with a chevron 3. a cartoonish bloodhound that resembles Hannah-Barbara's character "Droopy." Has your "friend" been drinking?

Hi All, a friend of mine is off to Chicago tomorrow. He is going to Grant Park, and I asked him to take photos, only thing is, I can't remember where we thought the casket was. If someone could give me a list of places for him to photograph (today) then I will post them here when he gets back.

That's great, Steve. If you go to the first page of the "What has been found" thread, you will see a step-by-step walkthrough of Grant Park.  I think it was by Johann.  It would be nice to see photos of it.  FYI, it's image 5 and verse 12 of the book. Even more important, we are still searching for some evidence that the casque was actually found, and who found it.  But we may never have the answer to that one.  Did anyone ever ask Byron Preiss for more specific info on this, such as a copy of a newspaper article or the name of the person who allegedly found it?

Egbert-- My friend, who is actually my friend and not me, has not been drinking.  He was just looking over my material and had some ideas.  I valued them as a fresh perspective and figured they were no more intoxicated than many of the ideas we (including myself) have offered.  Notice that in spite of all this technology stuff, which was not available when this hunt started, we have all failed to uncover a single treasure.  What have WE been drinking? --Johann

Johann, you have been an excellent contributor in our endeavor.  I was just kidding around.

Egbert-- No problem.  I apologize for being edgy.  My friend and I just lost a mutual friend to diabetes and heart-failure, so I have been touchy and you did not deserve my rant. --Johann By the way, who is in or near Cleveland?  I think I found something pertaining to the Centaur image and the "Beneath two countries" verse.  It looks promising, and I really want someone to find something.

I just started working on this hunt last week (the book is on its way) so i don't have much right now, but i did find the connection to Cleveland in the verse. Johann, are you talking about the Cleveland Cultural Gardens for verse 4? I think that is a good possibility. hxxp://www.clevelandmemory.com/ebooks/tpap/PG51.html Check out the picture at the top of the above website. "Seek the columns for the search" may be refering to these. Also, from the text on that site, "The chief feature of this garden is a pylon symbolizing the wall of the Parthenon, dedicated to the Greek spirit in philosophy, art, literature, and science. It is inscribed with the names of Solon, Ictinus, Callicrates, Phidias, Aristophanes, Pericles, Euripides, Sophocles, Aeschylus, Homer, Praxiteles, Zeuxis, Apelles, Myron, Lysippus, Scopas, Sappho, Socrates, Anaxagoras, Aristotle, Plato, Aristarchus, Demosthenes, Pindar, Archimedes, Herodotus, Xenophon, Thucydides, Euclid, Hippocrates, Ptolemy, Pythagoras, Polycletus, and El Greco." so we have Socrates, Apelles and Pindar. The Greek Garden borders the Italian Garden and the Lithuanian Garden. There is walkway between the Greek and Italian Gardens. I would guess that the casque is buried somewhere near that path between the 2 gardens. The Greek Garden is also sunken so that may explain the "bottom level" and the steps.

Egbert et al, I actually got ahold of Byron Preiss.  He responded from his email at:  [email protected]. I asked him a bunch of questions, which I will not bore you with, because here was his response: "it is me..happy searching!" wilhouse

I assume that means the hunt is still valid and on...but I hate assuming things...

Sooner Fan-- That is exactly what I am talking about.  I was gathering info, but check out my post on the thread for the verse that pertains to "Beneath two countries" (I for got the number). --Johann

I posted info on the verse 4 and image 4 threads. --Johann

ok, no one yet has stated what i think the negative image is, so i'll post my thoughts, and hope that this will bust it wide open.  If you take an outline of the negative space, i beleive the shape is the side view of a Buddha statue, possiblly the Medicine Budda or the Infinite Light Budda.  i cant figure out how to put a picture in here yet, but when i do, i'll show ya what i mean. todd

Sorry to bring P6 back into the limelight but, is it just me or does there appear to be the outline of a city skyline in the lower portion of the mountain?  Just above the flowers and slightly to the left, there is a sunlit section of the mountain with 3 or 4 distinctive shadows that look like buildings.  It is a similar match to Miami except for the odd building on the far right. Maybe finding this skyline locates our city?

Hi there.....wow...my first message. Well, anyway, i was just lokking at a map, and the cloud above the guy looks alot like michigan with the darker outlining around it representing the lakes. as for the palm tree....'palm' tree... hellllloooo... Michigan ..the glove of the US.... Hand... duh so I think somewhere in central to lower Michigan (the palm area of the state) Maybe somewhere near Detroit. feedback please on my first post,  did I do good? Edit: I'm gonna want a thank you if somebody finds it! Edit Again: I take it back, not Detroit, there is a city just west of Lansing(Lancing...the lance with the flag on it, though that might be stretching it some) called Grand ledge, and this picture has a 'Grand Ledge' and if you hold a map up to the picture, the jewel seems to be in that same area Another Edit: there is a historic park there called Island Park (maybe that background landmass) And one of the guys to settle Eaton County was Benjamin Knight(the knightly lookin dude on the horse) there are all sorts of statues and memorials there too Happy Hunting ya'll, I'm stuck working.... , oh well

interesting insights antiquiter...  Still leaning towards FL w/ this P but you have given us yet another area to research. Grand Ledge MI, huh?  Interesting you mention that quaint little town.  My aunt & uncle have a historic house there.  If this pans out somehow, maybe I'll send them on the dig  😛

More speculation: I've always thought that there was a pretty clear "38" that is upside-down, below the horse's front legs and to the left of the jewel.  But possibly that is what rob is proposing as "76"?

Below and to the left of the wing-shape, on a level with the "throat" of the rock (as it is a giant profile), there seems to be a 4 (written just like that, with a triangular shape).  There could be another 8 to the left of it (yet, there are so many 8s). --Johann

Another idea: When I turn the pic sideways, the profile facing down, the dark patch across (now diagonally up and right) looks like an uneven set of stairs. --Johann

I have always seen the '2', and the area to its left could either be an '8' or a '3'.  If we assume this is Florida, then '32' is too far north.  Therefore, if we use '82' that puts us in Tampa/St.Petersburg at 27N 82W.

I loaded a negative image of this pic here: hxxp://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/arm ... ing/files/ it is pretty easy to see all the cracks in the rock this way. take a look. the 82 jumps right out (though it does look like it could be a 3, but is probably an there is something strange right below the gem wilhouse

rob--  I see the 2 clearly now, and thus the 82.  Thanks. --Johann

Well, Image 6 with the Conquistador and the palm tree seems to be an obvious reference to Florida --- perhaps too obvious.  Someone pointed out the same thing with Image 7 and the Mardi Gras mask, but the latitude and longitude of New Orleans (29 & 90) appears to lock that picture in on that city.  Other than the "spanish" look to Image 6, and the Florida shape of the empty space, there is nothing tying this pic to Florida.  Why am I saying all this?  Because in the "What has been found" thread, you will see a chart of our proposed locations, and the problem that we have:   13 possibilities, but only 12 treasures.  Let's take a look at it: Boston --------- Image ? ----- Verse 3 ------ ?? month Charleston ------ Image 2 ---- Verse ? ------ 4th month ---Africa Chicago -------- Image 5 ----- Verse 12 ----- 5th month --- Ireland Cleveland ------- Image 4 ---- Verse 4 ------ 3rd month --- Greece Houston --------- Image 8 ---- Verse 1 ------ 7th month --- Arabia Kill Devil Hill ------ Image ? ---- Verse 11 ----- ?? month New Orleans ----- Image 7 ---- Verse ? ----- 12th month --- France New York City --- Image 12 --- Verse 10? --- 11th month --- Russia Salt Lake City --- Image 11 --- Verse ? ------ 8th month --- Italy San Francisco --- Image 1 ---- Verse 7? ----- 6th month --- China Florida?? -------- Image 6 ---- Verse ? ------ 9th month --- Spain Unmatched: Image 3 (armor)(England) Image 9 (funny man)(Dutch) Image 10 (juggler)(Germany) Verses 2, 5, 6, 8, & 9 Locations:  St. Louis & Canada Going down the list: 1.[glow=red,2,300]Boston[/glow] --- Verse 3 has the reference to Paul Revere's ride which is unmistakable.  That seems to lock in Boston as 1 of the sites. 2.[glow=red,2,300]Charleston[/glow] --- The mask in Image 2 is a coastline match.  We also have Ft.Sumter.  Definite. 3.[glow=red,2,300]Chicago[/glow] --- Found. 4.[glow=red,2,300]Cleveland[/glow] --- Found. 5.[glow=red,2,300]Houston[/glow] --- Verse 1 and the "982" train seem to match.  Image 8 seems the best match as well. 6.[glow=red,2,300]Kill Devil Hill[/glow] --- Verse 11 has the words from the Wright Bros. monument.  Seems definite. 7.[glow=red,2,300]New Orleans[/glow] --- Image 7 has the lat/long & the mask.  Seems to work. 8.[glow=red,2,300]NYC[/glow] --- Image 12 has the Lady and the Bird, but it's not a definite match.  I'd like to see NeVar put the real images side by side in that thread. 9.[glow=red,2,300]Salt Lake City[/glow] --- Image 11 and 112 degrees.  Seems to match, but still not convinced.  Not a port city. 10.[glow=red,2,300]San Francisco[/glow] --- Image 1 has many matches with SF, as pointed out in that thread.  I'm convinced. 11.[glow=red,2,300]Florida[/glow] --- Image 6?  Hmmm. 12.[glow=red,2,300]St. Louis[/glow] --- I think we are convinced that a treasure is in St. Louis --- someone said they received an email from B.Preiss confirming it.  We've also come up with possible matches (Robert Louis Stevenson book, etc.). 13.[glow=red,2,300]Canada[/glow] --- We all seem convinced about Canada as well.  B.Preiss seems to confirm this through articles.  The treasures are hidden across "North America," not just the "USA." So, 1 of these locations is wrong.  Also, more than 1 could be wrong if someone is correct about the other locations talked about in other threads (Pittsburgh, Nevada, Georgia, etc.).  From the above discussion, it appears that NYC, Florida, or Salt Lake City is the wrong one.  To me, Florida seems the most tenuous. So, that would mean that Image 6 goes with either Boston, Kill Devil Hill, St. Louis, or Canada (these are the "unmatched" cities).  Just something to think about for this picture.  Whew!

I guess this posting would fall under the "other ramblings" section: Has anyone ever been emphatically told (by BP or others) that the "Field Guide To The Fair People" following the V's is NOT important to the hunt?  I have always believed (as stated in other parts of the book) that all we need are the P's & V's.  The reason I'm asking is a stretch but is this....while flipping through the field guide looking at the pictures, I found myself at page 199.  There is no "9" there but that locomotive is #82.  Could this be a subtle clue to letting the stumped know that 982 in V1 is a train?  Thinking I may be on to something, I went back and looked again...finding myself on page 83.  Another coincidence (more than likely) but there in black and white is "222" ("Lane 222.....").  There is an actual UGL spackle 222 ( hxxp://householdproducts.nlm.nih.gov/cg ... d=21004001 ) which appears to be hq'd in PA...but nothing much else stands out.  Just curious as to what everyone thinks.....probably just mere coincidence.....  8)

Fox, I remember reading somewhere in these posts that someone said BP told them that you don't NEED anything but the p and v to solve that puzzle. However, I don't remember reading that there were no CLUES in the rest of the book.  I've always thought it suspicious that the list of sightings (221, 222) is littered with those places we have theorized casks are. I havent sat down and reread the whole book for a while, maybe it's time. your train comment is extremely relevant. wilhouse

Well Cthree and I were instant messaging and talking about confirmers or other hints in the rest of the book and I noticed that the fairy from Ohio, (mind boggles - pg 94-95) is listed in the index (pg 56) under the section labeled, "Cultural" The ohio treasure was found in the Cultural garden...... make of it what you will...

perhaps we need a new subject called hints from the book, not the V or P. wilhouse

sounds like a good idea...that is a new section as mentioned by wilhouse. The way I see it (& possibly how BP wanted it to be) all you really NEED to solve the riddles are the P's & V's.  Meaning that if all you had were the PsVs ripped from the book, you could solve them.  Now, placing confirmers or hints throughout the book may have been done also.  It just struck me as odd when I saw a TRAIN with 82 on it and it seems very probable that the 982 mentioned is our train in Houston. Falcon's "Cultural" find seems to also support this.  The more of these connections we find...the less likely they are coincidences. Also, I may be wrong (will have to recheck) but I think "Union Jack" pp 166-167 is the Only one specifically mentioned to be found in Canada.  Vancouver BC.  Maybe we should start researching this city for our 1 Canadian casque.

I think there is also a Torontogre.

I'm going to post this here because of the conversation, but I think a new topic is merited. Look at the picture that Fox pointed out on page 199 in the book of the train.  That train looks almost exactly like the 982 train in Houston.  It is very distinctive, with it's flat, round face and pointed cow catcher. Now look at the I beam on the left.  There is a clear letter H on the end. Yes, it's an I beam, but it is turned sideways. I beams are always flat side up and down, especially sitting on it.  Also, the H is highlighted. The comic book the person is reading is Hawkman.  There are hawks in the zoo. Also look in the background at the left side by the I beam.  There are the 4 posts from Image 8. We need to start looking at these pictures, they might marry the images and verses!! wilhouse

so the I beam looks more like an H beam?  H = Houston or Hermann? Dont know if it is needed but here is a little on our Hawkman: hxxp://www.dcuguide.com/Who/Hawkman1_Bio.htm

I really like antiquiter's theory of this being Michigan, but that may be due to the fact that I live in Michigan- specifically right next to Grand Ledge. Ever since I started the hunt, I thought this might picture might be a reference to Michigan, as the rock that the flag is on top looks alot to be like Castle Rock in Saint Ignace. I am going to see if I can match any of the verses for the area, and see what I can come up with

This question doesn't point to a particular state, but is it possible that the pony is a carousel pony?  The position of the flagpole in relationship to the pony's body reminds me of a carousel pole.

I would like to invite consideration of Southern California (and the San Diego area in particular) as an alternative to the Florida theory.  This is just a hunch, but it's based on the following: 1.  SoC is every bit as Spanish as FL. 2.  Oceans, palm trees, Spaniards, etc. 2.  The SD area could match the latitude portion of the theory. 3.  The terrain is a much closer fit.  You could pile up all the rocks in the entire state of FL and still not have enough for our conquistador to stand on.  Florida islands don't look like the image island, either. Maybe Balboa Park (including the zoo)?  One of it's most famous features is an equestrian "El Cid" statue. I'm in Georgia, and I'd love for this to be FL, but it doesn't feel right to me. Any thoughts about the SD area?

yeah, just what we need, another city... I've always wondered how SoCal could be left off the list... wilhouse

I used to live in San Diego, none of the verses remind me of anything there. but I will have a fresh rethink on it go over the verses and see if I see anything in the picture

Unknown: yeah, just what we need, another city... I've always wondered how SoCal could be left off the list... wilhouse sorry about my naitivitie (sp?) of California but isnt San Francisco considered SoCal?

Fox, many experts will disagree, but having been raised in southern california and lived there for over 35 years, SoCal ends when you leave the San Fernando Valley, about 20 miles northwest of downtown LA, or malibu on the pacific ocean.  San Francisco is 400 miles north, not southern anything. wilhouse

yeah, most people forget there is a central California most geographers consider Bakersfield part of Southern CA but socialogically Californians consider Southern California ends at the grapevine which is the southernmost point of the San Joaquin Valley (big valley goes down the middle of the state) Still some people would argue the grapevine isn't in Southern CA cause its on the other side of the San Andreas Fault. From there to about Monterey is Considered Central California then everything North of that (San Francisico and Sacramento included) is northern California.

Thanks for the geography lesson wilhouse and falcon.  🙂  I didnt realize SF was so far north and therefor considered NoCal. Any new revelations with your GGP train of thought falcon?  I sure hate it when we think we must be right there at another find...then things start to stall on us.  We have to find another soon..lets not give up now.

Regarding the previous post, what exactly is falcon's GGP (Golden Gate Park, I assume) train of thought? I ask because I had been putting together a line of reasoning around Golden Gate Park as I was first studying the various threads, but I dropped it when I saw a semi-consensus for Image 1 being SF. Lots of the same reasons as SD, of course (Spaniards, rocks, surf).  Look at enough Google pictures of the rocks off the coast of GGP and you can be convinced that you're seeing the white island/rock in Image 6.  The palm seems a little out of it's latitude in SF, but the shape of the big rock on the left looks a lot like the city of SF. Anyway, if there's more thoughts about the Spaniard being in San Francisco, I'd love to hear it.

Train of thought for picture 1 as GG park: reverse image of GGpark in dress GH matches location of Great Highway Hands of lady crossover park near Crossover drive (highway one) Loops in dragon match locations of lakes in the park profile of Licoln/JFK in picture Lincoln Ave Runs along South of park /JFK runs through park Rose in picture Rose garden in GGpark Wierd shape in upper left of picture matches Wierd shape of southern part of North Lake- This ones weak as the southern part of north lake actually doesnt match that shape. -but the shape is almost identical to the depiction of that part of the lake on the most common tourist map of GGPark you can get throughout the park Thats pretty much it. I feel pretty strongly about this being a match. But you will notice I havent found a treasure - so I could be reading this totally wrong. i.e. perhaps it means "Not in GG park" but nearby... As for image 6 being SF, absolutely - Although if its not FL, I will be surprised, (like I was suprised Cleavland wasn't Philadelphia) The other thing to think about is why couldn't they both be SF - no where does it say He didn't put two treasures in one city.... we all just assumed they were 12 different cities.

OK, I was confused.  I thought fox was referring to a train of thought linking Image 6 to GGP.  I get it now. In my own comment regarding the rocks, I also incorrectly said GGP when I really meant GG National Recreation Area (mostly at the north end of the bridge). And for a totally different suggestion, doesn't the white rock look a lot like the top of the Matterhorn?  Maybe a mirror image of the view from Zematt that shows up on a lot of Internet searches?  The left-side profile is an especially good match.  There's a Matterhorn in Anaheim, but I haven't been able to get much further with this.  Just throwing it out to see if it sparks anything.

Unknown: I have always seen the '2', and the area to its left could either be an '8' or a '3'.  If we assume this is Florida, then '32' is too far north.  Therefore, if we use '82' that puts us in Tampa/St.Petersburg at 27N 82W. There are only a few 'large' cities at 82W: Tampa/St. Pete, Columbus OH, Port Huron MI, and Greenville SC.  And for 32N, we have: Montgommery AL, Tuscon AZ, San Diego CA, Charleston SC, and Dallas TX.  I used hxxp://www.bcca.org/misc/qiblih/latlong_us.html to look up coords for US cities and took the liberty of eliminating those that seemed unlikely or obscure. Also, as much as it pains me to credit U. of Texas  :), they have a great map collection at hxxp://www.lib.utexas.edu/maps/index.html .

Unknown: I would like to invite consideration of Southern California (and the San Diego area in particular) as an alternative to the Florida theory. 2.  The SD area could match the latitude portion of the theory. Maybe Balboa Park (including the zoo)?  One of it's most famous features is an equestrian "El Cid" statue. Any thoughts about the SD area? I was just looking at San Diego myself for this pic, and like the idea of Balboa Park.  Vasco Núñez de Balboa was the first European to see the Pacific Ocean (from its eastern shore anyway).  The explorer on horseback at the top of this pic is facing west, as if he were on the eastern shore looking out over the Pacific.  There is a famous/popular statue of El Cid in this park ( hxxp://www.ditona-beach.net/JPG/SanDieg ... alboa3.jpg ) that bears some resemblance to the man & horse in the pic.

Well,  I took a loooong look at picture 6, and can pretty much see anything in those rocks if you look hard enough! Fox, I checked out the skylines in Fla., none seemed to match. A few things I noticed.  First, the stream at the bottom of the picture is just not right.  It seems to flow and then dissipate.  Something there... Also, when you flip the picture upside down, the flower stems seem to spell something.  I definately make out an "A" and an "R". Turning the picture on it's side, the jewel seems to have three lions joined together protecting it... Don't know if anyone else sees that.  I did a comprehensive look for lions in Florida.  Saw one picture of two lions at a sea front (St. Petersburgh?), but that was about it. Also, what's holding the flag?  Not the guy...  Is that a clue? All for now. ABQRAM

I honestly don't see the lions yet... can you please describe them more?  Lions might work with San D though... I believe the SD Zoo is at Balboa Park. Re: seeing anything in the rocks... I hear ya - I can see a similarity between the rocks up and to the left from the flowers and the SD skyline.  It's not an exact match, but it looks similar to a horizontal flip of this pic: hxxp://www.printroom.com/ViewgalleryPho ... mage_id=35 .  Perhaps from the right perspective it would be a better match. I too have seen letters in the flower stems - I see an "H" to the left of the right-most flowers. Also, the mountain/iceberg at the bottom right looks like a big block letter "E" to me. Sure wish we knew who's profile that rock formation is... - Jambone

Jambone-- Look at the jewel.  One lion's mouth is right below the jewel.  The other two mouth's are right next to the first one... I see that profile too, but it is too non-descript.  I have not committed myself to Florida and will look to see if San Diego is a better fit. ABQRAM

Ah, I see them now.  The middle one definitely looks like a lion's mouth to me.

I used to live in San Diego, So I know Balboa Park pretty well. I hate to say this, but I think if this picture points at SD, (I still think the large map of Fla points toward there) The only verse that remotely struck me as workable, is Sorry Wilhouse, Verse 1 Roughly fortress north - one of the museums on the north side of plaza de panama Friendship south - The japanese friendship garden is due south of the plaza. Small of scale - nearby are several small houses from the World Exhibition (each one a scale model of a house from a country - There are fountains galore- bridges- paths, and a zoo as always quite a lot of changes since 1982 but still pretty much all there. There is also a small train with whistle... maybe someone else can add to this. None of the other verses to me seemd to fit as well. But I just want to say, Im pretty sure this image is Florida and verse 1 is houston...

Falcon, if I could find a verse that leads me to the treasure better than verse 1 has done so far I'd be egs - static. wilhouse

Hi this is my first post here but have been watching the board for a while now off and on.  I have a question for someone that knows the park there in San Diego.  Are there any Budha Statues around there or a conection to Buddha?  Not sure if the Japanes are Buhddist or not.  The reason why I ask is if you turn p6 upside down and look at the part that looks llike Florida right side up it looks to me to be a budhha image.  Also if you look at the rock formation with the p right side up the formation looks to me like a Indian looking up in the sky.  I believe there were Indians in the area of San Diego.  Just somethings I see in the p.

Hi guys. I had long ago sent my ramblings to Mr. Fox but unfortunately, the files may have been too big. I am resurrecting my notes and I would like to offer a few of my thoughts as I review them again. First, I would like to say that I have been convinced for some time that the little story about the fair folk holds many clues. That being said, I believe that picture 6 is pointing to Florida. This is why (from my old notes): The most direct hint is on page 30. “For slow centuries, the exotic Dracs and Fadas from the Riviera had sported and dozed on the beaches of newfound Florida. Perhaps the metal-clashing landfall of the Conquistadors took them by surprise…” Page 13 mentions the Dracs and Fadas “…amidst pink, long-legged birds and high, swaying palms.” On page 22: “…to the southern shores, where the Iberian Hadas were greeted by the Timuca and Calusa.” I found information on these Native Americans – in Florida – on this website: hxxp://www.ancientnative.org/timucua.htm and one thing I noted right away is that both tribes were situated in central Florida around Tampa Bay and inwards toward Orlando. P 6 still leaning to somewhere in FL, the shape of the rock looks like FL with the gem representing lake Okeechobee  I think the rock is not meant to look like the shape of the state, but rather, represents a kind of rock that is found in central Florida called Karst. This type of rock erodes to produce some very interesting formations. I have some excellent pictures of these karst formations and one even looks like the rock in the painting! Unfortunately, I am somewhat limited in my message-board skills and I do not know how to post an image. Do I have to host the image on my website and then post a link? Please advise.

SeaHag - I'm with you on the fair folk story. I made some notes on that myself at one point and remember looking up the locations of some of those Native American tribes. And I think it was mentioned before but I can't shake the feeling that St Augustine is the city we're after in Florida. The history of places like Roanoke and St Augustine tie in really well with the fair folk story.

seahag....  <------this Mr. Fox?  dont think I ever rcvd anything...but i do like your ideas.  I too am still convinced this P to be FL.

I have worked on pix 6 over the last 2 months extensively.  I firmly believe it is St. Augustine Florida.   I actually have some hard facts that match a particular site in St. Augustine and fits firmly with verse 9 also matching same site in St. Augustine.  I thought that I actually had the dig site narrowed down to with a few feet.    I have visited this site recently and have alot to share about this trip.  Unfortunately, I am limited on time right now, hope to post more this weekend as it is a lot to share.  The trip overall was somewhat disappointing because I think I'm right, we'll see what you guys think, but due to hurricanes, shore line erosion etc, it may not be recoverable, in addition, we were prohibited to actually dig at the suspected site.  I do have local contacts there that may be able to help, but we'll need to do a lot of historical research to narrow down the exact dig site (mostly pictures of the property in the early '80s) if that's even possible.  If nothing else, be assured that V9 goes with P6.  That should help other searches.  More later.

[1]   P6 + V9.  St Augustine Florida  Fountain of Youth Archeological Park.  I was not able to dig up a casque, and so I will keep the picture and verse threads separate for organization sake.   P6 represents Birth month Sept--Sapphire--Aster (wild flower of NE Florida)--Spanish Theme.  This looks like Ponce de Leon as our Spanish Conquistadore. Heavy Spanish theme in all of St Augustine. Prologue of Book:   "...Iberian Hadas were greeted by the Timucua and the Calusa."  The Timucua greeted Ponce in St Augustine showing him the Fountain of Youth.  The Calusa are a west coast tribe that battled Ponce, fatally wounding him.  [AND]  "...the Conquistadores took them by surprise, and they fled without taking time to disenchant their Fountain of Youth...". There is not much in this picture that gets you to Florida, except the depiction of the Spanish Conquistadore (Ponce de Leon).  But the site of the Fountain of Youth is so specific, you don't need too much more to get there.  See attached pictures below.  "82" shows up in the middle the rock which is nearly the longitude for St Augustine.  See verse 9 for more information from my trip  [2].     [img]URL[/img]hxxp://pak06.pictures.aol.com/NASApp/ygp/Login?event=ViewFilm&filmId=497.1274.1106417910352.1&locale=en_US

Well, I wasn't able to get the You've Got Pictures link to work, but your post intrigued me enough to do some Googling... And I definitely think you're right about the connection to the Fountain of Youth Park!   The image of "Ponce De Leon" on the hxxp://www.fountainofyouthflorida.com/ page looks strikingly similar to the rider at the top of the image.  And as for the connection to the verse, check out this picture I found showing the entrance to the Fountain of Youth park: hxxp://www.glennhubbard.com/florida/sta ... C01003.JPG Nice work! One more thing... I'm color blind, but is this picket fence green? hxxp://www.glennhubbard.com/florida/sta ... C-023S.JPG

Ok, after some more Googling, I'm 100% sure about Stercox's location.  The verse "confirmers" are almost exactly like the ones I found at Ft. Raleigh.... which leads me to my next question. Why did Mr. Preiss bury these things at archeologically significant sites?  Sure, it probably meant that the sites wouldn't be demolished and rebuilt, thus preserving the location of the casque, but there's no way we're going to get permission to dig at these places.  The Fountain of Youth Park is an archeological site with Indian burial grounds... we need friends in high places!

I've been the to park recently.  I am trying to post my pictures, will try another route.  [img]URL[/img]hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/stercox Let me know if these go, and if they don't then I need some suggestions on how to get these posted.

I think that those pictures will come over now on the post.  There is not much in the picture that tells you that you're in the right place.  Its the verse that sells it, see verse 9.

The pics looked great! Nice work.  Were you able to find a green picket fence?  If so, I'd say start digging around the base of any tall trees nearby...  (if you can get away with it).

Good job.  I think you've pegged it, and to think back in July I was trying to convince myself this looked like California instead of Florida. You have a locational theory relative to the rock in the picture.  Any confirmation that such a rock ever actually existed? Also, I have a general theory that somewhere in the Image there is an item which, if you could lay your hand on it, would actually put the casque under your feet.  Good candidates here might be the emblem on the flag or the equestrian Ponce (maybe on a plaque or something).  Ring a bell? Pine

My theory is that the casques are by something large and unmovable, like a wall, so that if Preiss had to come back and get it he could find it immediately. Large rocks, a wall, that sort of thing. wilhouse

I did some work on the p to show what I was talking about the Buddha and the Indian in the p.  Cant figure out how to post pics here so I had to start a yahoo groups page and post a word file on there.  Its 981 kb so not to big.  Check it out and let me know what you think about it. hxxp://groups.yahoo.com/group/nothingspecial/files/ click on the pic 6 file

You did not need to create a new Yahoo!Group just for this.  We use the Armchair Treasure Hunt group -- you'll see the Cleveland photos from this very hunt there: hxxp://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/arm ... ing/files/ (I just don't want to join yet another single-purpose group/mailing list.)

Is it just me, or does the map on hxxp://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/histarch/menendez_02.htm look like a bit like the mountain's profile? Am I trying too hard?

Thanks catherwood for the info on the yahoo group.  I posted the file on there as pi6 its in word format.  Let me know what you all think about it.

I added the Fountain of Youth Park map as an overlay on image 6 in the yahoo group file section.

well, that picture Mark posted gives you a spot to dig... wilhouse

What pix?? Where is it posted.  I saw Mark's post above, but no pix??  help

It's gone. It was there (honest). Perhaps it disappeared when Mark logged off. Mark P, any help here? wilhouse

Hmmm I posted a link but maybe it's only valid when I'm logged on. The path looks sort of temporary. You'll just have to look for yourself on groups, or I could copy it to q4t. Mark

Where?  Still can't find the pic.

You need to be logged into Yahoo!Groups to see the image.  My session gives me THIS URL but it's better if you just go to the group, select FILES from the side menu, and click on map6.jpg at the bottom of the list (Fountain of Youth Map Overlayed on Image 6).

Aw heck, wilhouse's post is still accurate even if Mark's picture doesn't come up at all... Get it?

Wow! what are the odds that that section of the coast of florida would also work as a piece of the park outline! BP had to do some thinking on this one!!! What verse is the one that goes with this picture?

Some random thoughts... If johann's 6/16/04 conjecture is correct (he's been right before!), and if my eyes aren't fooling me and there is a backwards 30 (the 3 is the cheek of the rock profile), then that puts us on the coast near Tallahassee. Which, by the way is in Leon (as in Ponce de) County. Of course, one could extract almost any numbers from this picture. I could say the cheek is 113 (note the vertical lines just after the backward 3), and the lines on the rock island could be 41. That would give us Salt Lake City again (!). That rock at the bottom right seems like a strange kind of rock to be out in the marshes. I doubt it is to be taken literally as a rock. Is that a coastline at the bottom left? ...or something creepy and sinister?

Ya know, on further reflection, this part of the picture looks a little like a landscape profile with three trees outlined against the sky, the middle one being most prominent.

There are many places on the Florida coast that could look similar to that coastline you drew there. I live in Florida and have visited St. Augustine as well as other similar archeological sites around the state. Digging is most definetly prohibited. However, there is a campsite near the St. Augustine dig site (as pictured on the Fountain of Youth state park site, there was a link to it a few posts back.) I would assume you could dig there, even if it's at night while you're camping >.>  And it would be right below the part that looks like the outline of the island.

boogieman, your pix arent showing

I know St. Augustine is the favored location for this one, but here are just a couple of observations in favor of the west coast... Folks have mentioned this before as pointing to the state of Florida, but maybe it points to the west coast specifically. I'm just sayin'.

Ever since fox broke this hunt wide open with his latitude / longitude observation, I've been looking for numbers in this picture. If these really are 82 and 83, that puts us on the west coast of Florida.

Never even saw the 82 83.... I like it!  I really like the P fitting snuggly with the western coast.  So, what does that leave us?  Is Pensacola too far west?  If so, we are looking at Clearwater, Bradenton, Naples and of course (my favorite which I have actually been toying around with) Key West.  Looks like it is time to move to the other coast of FL and do some digging (research wise, not casque unearthing {yet}).

I now live and work on the west coast of Florida (a nice change from New Jersey), so if there is anything you want to explore, let me know.

Welcome South Egbert. Sorta, anyway.  In Floriday, the further South you go, the further north you get. What area? I'm on the west coast of Georgia, so not too far away.

I live in Naples, and work in Ft. Myers.

Egbert wrote:: I now live and work on the west coast of Florida (a nice change from New Jersey), so if there is anything you want to explore, let me know. Egads, not another unearthing by Sir Egg!  lol Couple of things we may want to remember.  Long ago, Cat came up with the theory that the casques will be buried in larger PORT cities.  So, where would that leave us on the western coast of Florida?....  Tampa Bay seems to be the logical choice.  Is TB considered a major port city?  hmm, this is interesting..just did a google on "major port cities" and one of the hits included this:  "Major port cities with low areas include Boston, New York, Charleston, Miami, and New Orleans."  That list looks pretty familiar...but it has Miami (wrong coast). -for now, TB lat/lon wavers around 27-28 N lat & 82-83 W lon.

Maybe wrong coast, but it is where that rock and palm tree sits.  Miami? Miami= 25 and 80 edit: Alligators in Miami?  Everglades? hxxp://www.freewebs.com/patcash/image6.htm

Are there any other numbers in the rocks?

The size of the horse/pony in the P has been bugging me.  Could be the previously mentioned carousel pony, or it could be the Florida Cracker horses that were brought in by none other than Ponce de Leon himself.  These are smaller saddle horses - riding one would probably make you hike your feet up just like the image. hxxp://www.ansi.okstate.edu/breeds/horses/floridacracker/ hxxp://www.imh.org/imh/bw/flcrack.html His 2nd voyage landed on the gulf side of Florida between Charlotte Harbor and Estero Bay.  This is the voyage where he brought farmers, priests, etc.  Perhaps this is the time he brought the cracker horses. In Punta Gorda (around the Charlotte Harbor area) is a public park for Ponce de Leon.  I haven't been able to find many pictures of it though. UPDATE - Estero Island/Estero Bay is also around Ft. Myer - which might have a nickname of Palm City (but I'm having a hard time verifying that with other websites). Interesting - the small horse and possible relation to the 2nd voyage and the Palm reference.....

nodon wrote:: UPDATE - Estero Island/Estero Bay is also around Ft. Myer - which might have a nickname of Palm City (but I'm having a hard time verifying that with other websites). Interesting - the small horse and possible relation to the 2nd voyage and the Palm reference..... Ft. Myers is known as "The City of Palms."  Estero is just south of here, about 10 minutes away.

good idea on the horses Nodon.  I have always thought something was amiss with our equine friend as well.  My take on it was that there will be an exact statue (horse looks like it is stone) nearby the casque. something similar to this....but this is in Vermont:

Here is one in Manitoba Canada:

Verse 11 needs an image and I am linking this image to Roanoke Island... sight of the first English Settlement. Also, the next Island over is called Palm Island.

Trohn - I think the case for linking V11 with P3 is iron-clad. Why is there still doubt over this?

I am skeptical,... but will let things play as they are.

I want to offer that Roanoke Island is the exact shape of this image.

The land near the window :

And the man on the horse is dressed exactly as this photo of Sir Walter Raleigh's half brother who both had the same type of beard and features... the style fits.

Nice fit FB.

Upper left portion of the rock image, nine o'clock in relation to the gem, my wife sees a mother holding a child. Any confirmation on this?

Trohn wrote:: And the man on the horse is dressed exactly as this photo of Sir Walter Raleigh's half brother who both had the same type of beard and features... the style fits. Thats a stretch in my opinion...  Seems more obvious to be Ponce de Leon which ties directly into the Florida thoughts on this P.

She is right about the child i have seen this for months. i can't see the mother but there are letters between the gem and the baby. it looks like i,E,? i cant make out the last letter

OK... I will bend and assume that this picture is Florida which would fit fine with the Explore Immigrant story.... Lets take the waving flag to represent the keys (turn the photo upside down) That would make the flag pole the bridge from the mainland to the islands.... The jewel now would be just East of route 1 and just South of Miami... This would put it at the original site of the Parrot Jungle Island... which was started in 1923 and at the same location until 2003.. now the Parrot Jungle is at a new home and the original home is called PineCrest Gardens.. a similar type of facility but I am sure with rearranged landmarkers (circa 1982) I am attaching a photo from the original park... can anyone assgin it to a verse....

If it is here, or anywhere near this area, the clues maybe worthless to finding it. hxxp://www.tropicaldesigns.com/pjag.html

Very well documented though... hxxp://www.upf.com/Fall2000/gittner.html

I'm not convinced yet that this image isn't tied to Verse 11 and Roanoke I know alot of people like the Florida thing, but that image 6 has been driving me crazy. I think the profile (right side) of the rock mount looks alot like the outer banks

one more time

In addition, the banner looks like it could be one of the rivers that run into bay?

I have given up this line if thought because of the fact that with the prominent roads in this area, only a single road to get on and off the island, a confirmer would be highlighter on the image. With all of the rock contours, I didn't find anything to match up. I have defaulted this back to Florida. But it doesn't change the verse solves, just makes the left overs harder to nail down.

What about this?? I know coast lines can be tough, they all can look similar, but imagine the alignment

Studied this image with some serious thought last night and came away with some startling finds... to summarized... A positive link with (of all things) Verse 3 Found the following items... A golf club A man fly fishing An photo of the burial site Either 'the coliseum' or a lower mandible And a face of an old man with a long beard I do not have a location but I don't think it will be one that has been tossed around.

Just using my new-found website thanks to FB.  Don't think anybody mentioned this.  Steps.

I saw these steps... think that these are directly at the burial spot... I had looked into matching these with the Spanish Fort at St Augustine... didn't work too hard on this.. went back to concentrate on other images. But I do concur, thoseare indeed steps... Other things found... Blue man's face and beard (lower left) Fly Fisher Man (upside down palm island) Golf Club (left side - head up) Man standing and peering forward (to the right of golf club) This is besides al lthe rock images of parrots.

Any new or updated thoughts on pic6?  I am working on this one almost exclusively, but bouncing a couple of verses.  adoks53 (from tweleve) and I have been collaborating on a central florida location tied to verse 5 recently.  I am also skeptical of the Fountain of Youth Park only because it has always been an archeological site, and the park is closed off by gates and charges admission (and the fact that the Fountain of Youth was SPECIFICALLY mentioned at the beginning of the book - would he GIVE it away?).  If it was in that area, it would have to be OUTSIDE the park, but even those areas are archeological sites - it would have been very hard for him to have buried something there. So... anyone else looked at v5 tied to this much, or looked anymore at the more recently posted idea of v3? Also, any conjecture as to why the LARGE palm tree is NOT reflected in the water like the "rock" even though it is right next to it?  And the green whisps on the water - looks like a marshy area to me...

Hello, yes. I was intrigued by the line in verse 5: "Beneath the only standing member Of a forest To the south" So I googled around a bit on famous trees in Florida and I think the best candidate is probably the Banyan Tree that was planted by Thomas Edison in Ft. Meyers. It is near the Big Cypress Indian Reservation, and this fits my theory regarding the native tribes (posted last year.)

We were looking at "The Senator" in Big Tree Park - 3500 years old - oldest cypress in the country.  Here are some pics from the park: hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/madrigar/s ... 183032268/ If you have a Yahoo account, sign up for flickr (uses same account) and you can see the full-size pics.  Otherwise you just see the default size.  I'll post more on this later... (strange - someone smited me for presenting a different idea?)

Great pics! The Senator was on my list of famous Floridian trees as well. Also the Treaty Oak in Jacksonville. Check this out: Jacksonville, Florida's "Treaty Live Oak"--a vast old tree growing in the spot where the Timucuan tribe sat for tribal councils. (please excuse my ignorance, but what do you mean when you say "someone smited me"?)

Another item of interest regarding Jacksonville is the official seal of the city, which features a fellow on a horse, a fellow with a hat. Not exactly a conquistador, but... hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jacksonville,_Florida

And here's something else. If you take a look at a map of Jacksonville, you see that the east bank of the river matches the right outline of the rock formation in image 6 and that the jewel corresponds to a park: hxxp://www.tc.umn.edu/~cabra004/jacksonville.gif

I was talking about the Karma indicator under peoples names If you blow up the picture from the park with the writing, it mentions that it is believed Indians camped under the tree.  I made several notes on the pictures too that show up as squares - you can read them by hovering the mouse over a square.

just to put it out there roanoke island have a native horse called the spanish mustang I forgot the other name it goes by check that out

Just a couple things I didn't see mentioned... I see the number 41 in the green stems of the flowers on the leftmost side, one forwards, one backwards. Also about the island, I thought it could be a sort of rebus, "Palm Beach", Palm Beach Island", "Palm Island" ,etc.

Quite possible.  We do have a rebus in the Milwaukee image.

I find this interesting.....which supports our St Augustine idea (which seems pretty sound to me) even more.. this pic was titled "Gates into St Augustine" and am trying to locate where they are.... or how about this conquistador which I believe is at Anastasia State Park in S.A.?

The gate is in SA proper, I do not recall exactly where but--I think on Ponce De Leon Drive.  The second photo is not at Anastasia, its at the tickeoffice at the Fountain of Youth Park.  I have a picture of me with that dude from my last visit.  I do still contend that casque site is within this park.  There is another statue of Ponce in the park itself that looks similar.  And yet another statue of Ponce downtown near Flagler College.  He's everywhere I think.

Are we still going with V9 on this one?  I will be in FLA for the next 5 days.  How far is it from Daytona?  I figure, why not practice for my JPJ dig in Brooklyn. LOL

boogieman wrote:: Are we still going with V9 on this one?  I will be in FLA for the next 5 days.  How far is it from Daytona?  I figure, why not practice for my JPJ dig in Brooklyn. LOL "first chapter written in water" is directly from the fountain of youth state park entrance sign. "years pass, rains falls" sounds like the passing of time - aging- searching for it....

close...it does say "first chapter" but nothing about being written in water. "And a green picket fence At the base of a tall tree"          is this fence green? looks like a nice secretive place to bury a casque I was really hoping to find the banner PDL is carrying in the P...the pinkish circular thing must be something.  I did find this pic at FoYP and the colors are the same: A lot of V9 does indeed fit very nicely w/ this P.  Are we hot on the trail of another casque?  I sure hope so....

fox wrote:: close...it does say "first chapter" but nothing about being written in water. Not so fast my friend... It says "first chapter" on a Fountain of Youth sign.

yes.. I was by no means discounting this... I believe it to be correct..however it would be more correct if the V said first chapter written ON water And if PDL isnt considered a man w/ windrose, I will eat my hat.

Check out the background trees... Looks like a good match (not that it would be a unique match) hxxp://www.worldofstock.com/closeups/PWO2160.php Also, as previously reported, digging here is very much controlled.

that is the only thing that bothers me about this site..... could BP have actually buried something here 20 years ago (w/ or w/o permission) and now, 20 years later, will we even be able to dig here?

fox wrote:: that is the only thing that bothers me about this site..... could BP have actually buried something here 20 years ago (w/ or w/o permission) and now, 20 years later, will we even be able to dig here? My thought, although I am not sold, is that we would be across the canal from St Augustine somewhere on Anastasia Island (almost is the shape of the image). But, two things stop me from liking this - the image shows the 'island' in the background (not where the jewel is) and the verse indicates being where the explorers were. I am convinced that BP buried one twenty five feet inside a national park in South Carolina (but there he indicated you would need permission to retrieve). Who knows.

boogieman wrote:: Are we still going with V9 on this one?  I will be in FLA for the next 5 days.  How far is it from Daytona?  I figure, why not practice for my JPJ dig in Brooklyn. LOL Didn't make to St Augustine this trip.  Next one in May.  Sorry. It's 2 and a half hours from where I was.

I haven't seen anyone put the latitude/longitude together in 1 post (although I could have missed it).  So, I'll put in my 2 cents and point out that the 82 is pretty clear, as is the upside down 30 in the "cheek" of the mountain.  Those are the rough coordinates for St. Augustine. Also, if you look at the palm tree in the lower right close-up, it certainly appears that the trunk is a straight pole, with no variation in width.  Is there a pole anywhere in the park, or anywhere outside the park within visual range?

To address the issue of privately owned park. On the signs at the ticket booth it says it is a National Archaeological Park so a lot of people get confused and think it is part of the National Park Service. They still get folks trying to use the golden age pass from the National Park Service. BP may not have known that it was private property since it has not been advertised as such.

Looking for the straight poles in the park, you would certainly find some electric poles, most palm trees show very little variation in width and at a certain angle, you could see the cross at the mission grounds as a tall straight pole. This picture is so abstract that you could make just about anything out of it! How about the handle of a 6 ft shovel?

Maybe this is an obvious question, but are there any tall, oddly-shaped rocks in the park with ponies and conquistadors on top? Preferably with rocky islands off in the distance?

forest_blight wrote:: Maybe this is an obvious question, but are there any tall, oddly-shaped rocks in the park with ponies and conquistadors on top? Preferably with rocky islands off in the distance? DAMN!  Why didn't I think to ask that !? (Forest - That would earn a smite in my book - if we could still grant them.)

You know, while you're asking about the rocks, why not see if there are any large arrow-shaped signs pointing to the ground with the words "Casque found here--dig down 3 feet" written on them.  Why fool around with trees and rocks? Go for the obvious. c

Adoks sent me this earlier today. I think it will be very helpful in locating the casques when we are unsure of their location. Enjoy! (BTW: He did the artwork himself!! Isn't he fantastic?)

Hilarious! I'm laughing my casque off, guys.

And we could always try one of these:

shecrab wrote:: Adoks sent me this earlier today. I think it will be very helpful in locating the casques when we are unsure of their location. Enjoy! (BTW: He did the artwork himself!! Isn't he fantastic?) Where can we get an autographed copy??

sorry... simply posting this in "other ramblings" many from the tweleve site may have already seen this but I just wanted to share it with my hunting friends at Q4T. Son & I were bored one day and decided to kill some time spoofing Fox's new tv show Drive Enjoy! hxxp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm-sq23MzSQ

Hey all, This post covers multiple verses (1, 3, 7, 12) and multiple pictures (5, 6, 7, 8 ).  There doesn't seem to be just one thread that was appropriate for this kind of post so I just posted it in all 8 threads.  So if you have read this post once you don't have to read the other 7 as they are all the same. Socrates, Pindar, Apelles Free speech, couplet, birch To find casque’s destination (Verse 4) (Lines 10, 11, 12) The word birch rhymes with verse so I think the line is supposed to read FREE VERSE, COUPLET.  Now separate the initial letters of each couplet that rhymes from the initial letters of the free verse(i.e. the lines that don’t rhyme).  You can do this for all the verses(although some of them are all free verse with no lines that rhyme), however, for reasons that I will make clear below I think the only verses that matter here are Verses 1, 3, 7, and 12.  In all the verses below I have highlighted the lines that rhyme. I will start with Verse 12 as we already know the answer for that one. Where M and B are set in stone And to Congress, R is known L sits and left Beyond his shoulder Is the Fair Folks’ Treasure holder The end of ten by thirteen Is your clue Fence and fixture Central too For finding jewel casque Seek the sounds Of rumble Brush and music Hush. So you end up with: WABTICBH which when you rearrange the letters and use the B’s as blank spaces between the words you get: CHI B WA B T or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the B’s - Chicago Water Tower.  As we all know this is the tower in Picture 5.  This also explains the use of the word Hush in the verse, BP needed a word that started with H and rhymed with Brush. On to Verse 1 Fortress north Cold as glass Friendship south Take your task To the number Nine eight two Through the wood No lion fears In the sky the water veers Small of scale Step across Perspective should not be lost In the center of four alike Small, split, Three winged and slight What we take to be Our strongest tower of delight Falls gently In December night Looking back from treasure ground There’s the spout! A whistle sounds. So you end up with: NISPOILA which when you rearrange the letters and use the I’s as blank spaces between the words you get: NO I S I PLA or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the I’s – New Orleans Spanish Plaza.  And there is a Spanish Plaza in New Orleans. On to Verse 3 If Thucydides is North of Xenophon Take five steps In the area of his direction A green tower of lights In the middle section Near those Who pass the coliseum With metal walls Face the water Your back to the stairs Feel at home All the letters Are here to see Eighteenth day Twelfth hour Lit by lamplight In truth, be free. This time use the letters that begin the free verse lines: INTANWWFYFAETL which when you rearrange the letters and use the extra WFA as blank spaces between the words you get: FT W WAYNE F LIN A T or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the WFA – Ft. Wayne Lincoln Tower.  And there is a Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne Indiana built in 1929. And finally Verse 7 At stone wall’s door The air smells sweet Not far away High posts are three Education and Justice For all to see Sounds from the sky Near ace is high Running north, but first across In jewel’s direction Is an object Of Twain’s attention Giant Pole Giant step To the place The casque is kept. I first started anagramming this one using the same method of separating the letters that I used above and ended up with some wrong answers that wilhouse pointed out.  So I think for this one you anagram all the letters together: ATNHEFSNRIIOGGTT which when you rearrange the letters and use the G’s as blank spaces between the words you get HST G NATION G FRET or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the G’s – Houston National Forest.  This one didn’t anagram to my satisfaction as you end up with an extra I but there is a Sam Houston National Forest in Houston. Now as cool as all that was this is the really cool part and the reason that I think that this particular solution only deals with the above 4 verses.  Going back to verse 4 and using the words Socrates, Pindar, Apelles, birch along with information that we already have from the pictures(i.e. the latitudes and longitudes) you can as BP put it, “wed one picture with one verse.” Birch = 5 letters, picture 5 we know is Chicago goes with verse 12 which gives us Chicago Water Tower. Apelles = 7 letters, picture 7 we are pretty sure from the longitude and latitude is New Orleans and verse 1 gives us New Orleans Spanish Plaza. Socrates = 8 letters, picture 8 we are pretty sure from the longitude and latitude is Houston and verse 7 gives us Sam Houston National Forest. (sort of) Pindar = 6 letters, by process of elimination picture 6 goes with verse 3 which gives us Ft. Wayne Lincoln Tower. So to sum up. Verse 1 goes with Picture 7 and give us a starting location of Spanish Plaza in New Orleans Verse 3 goes with Picture 6 and gives us a starting location of Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne Verse 7 goes with Picture 8 and gives us a starting location of Sam Houston National Forest in Houston. Verse 12 goes with Picture 5 and gives us a starting location of the Water Tower in Chicago. Just some further thoughts that might not lead to anything but are rattling around in my head so I will throw them out for your consideration.  Two of the verses (9 and 11) are all free verse, nothing rhymes but there are two additional verses that do follow the free verse, couplet pattern. The first comes right before the pictures and second right after the pictures.  It is possible that some information is hidden in these two extra verses. Also if you like the idea of the number of the letters in a word indicating a picture(or a verse) then you might find this interesting.  There is only on significant instance of a one letter word in all of the verses(I know that there are various A’s in the verses but I said significant) and that is the v in verse 10.  In addition there is only one 12-letter word in all of the verses, remuneration.  I know that wonderstone’s is also 12 letters but I don’t count that one because you need to add the possessive s in order to get to 12. digger7

I find it humorous that the 3 V's you use to prove your theory are pretty much the 3 Vs that have definite tie ins to other locations... V1 - Hermann Park, Houston TX V3 - Boston MA, most likely around Copely Square V7 - San Francisco (still leaning towards GGP)

you also start with the chicago example. which you say is the connection to the water tower in the chicago image. but then in your next example, why does the anagram not point to an image. I could understand your logic if each anagram pointed to an item in a picture. Your anagrams dont hold up and they bring in radically new locations, that are unsubtantiated by other clues. whereas the locations people have put forth for various verses and pictures are compliations of multiple clues supporting the theory. If the anagrams resolved perfectly with a consistent method I would buy it but mostly I see somebody reaching for scrabble words with not enough letters. This seems to me to be a case of making the clues fit your theories instead of  the correct method of fitting the theory to the clues. Still if this method helps you find a casque I will be the first to say Amazing! Good Job. I like the idea though,but I think at this point though you are reaching.

maltedfalcon wrote:: but then in your next example, why does the anagram not point to an image. I'm assuming that when you get to a location(e.g. Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne) there will be something in the picture that confirms that you are in the right location.  I'm leaning toward the guy on the horse cuz there isn't much else in that picture.  Yes, I realize that it is just an assumption but I will be going to Ft. Wayne to check it out sometime soon. digger7

hey i am new top this forum but i am packing a wholloping amount of info regarding the ties of image 6 and verse 9....... i used to live on charlotte harbor, in the small town of punta gorda, fl (just off of I-75)there is a very small park i used to fish at called none other than Ponce De Leon Park(speed limit 11 mph)this park is located off of Us 41 on marion ave, the painting looks very much like some of the statues they have around the park, and there is a wild life refuge adjacent to the park witha good selection of birds and large cats. there is a trail in this park that is on the water(raised pier/walking trail) that is completly surrounded by mangroves(like a bigpicket fence that is green all year due to the warm climate)......... oh and btw large boats and yachts honk their horns as they go by to let smaller boats know of the large obstuction to the pass,you can hear it all through the path all day long, like i said buch of info but its what i can remember quickly at one in the morning, may or may not help

Its actually the name of the Timucuan Indian Village that the FOY parks sits on.  Not generalized to St. Augustine, but unique to FOY park.

i knew i wouldn't get that just right

no worries

Looks like FOY is likely the park. Punta Gorda is near Tampa not an area I would think of. Soon I hope to scan the image and find a confirmer for FOY park. Possible Lats/longes were no help their are about 8 possible cities. Another area to think about is PDL on the horse. This could be a clue we are over looking.

Not to put a damper on what you want to do, but....Scott, if you read the threads for imge 6 and it's verse, you will find that there were more than enough "confirmers" already found. You'll just be duplicating all the work that others have already done.

not over looking pdl is the name of the main drag through st augustine. it is roughly 2 blocks from FOY park also the line in verse 9 about the shell limestone.... check this out the caption on this picture says... Buildings, walls in St. Augustine, FL are made of crushed oyster shells and the mortar was made of salt, water and lime. hxxp://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= ... l%26sa%3DN

Hey all! The SELOY clue has always been the one that has sealed the deal for me. That is way too much for me to say "coincidence"! I can't argue with it. But, if my memory serves me right, the FOY park was not the only site that contained archeological artifacts from Seloy. I remember reading about digs at the Nombre de Dios site next door to the FOY park that were conducted by University of Florida. I'm pretty sure that UFs Florida museum of natural history department is in charge of those digs.  Now, since I am a native Gainesvillian (Go Gators!) and also live a mile from the UF campus I will find out who I should ask about the Seloy business. But there is still the question (even if the villiage of Seloy was all over that area) of whether or not BP did "extensive" research on the area or if he mearly went there, saw the seloy sign in FOY park and buried the treasure in the area. What do you guys think he did in terms of research about the area? I should also note that my good friend Brian distinctly sees a mother holding a baby in the large rock. While I was visiting the area for the millionth time (obsessed with this puzzle!) recently I did note that the shrine at the Nombre de Dios mission is that of Mary holding a baby Jesus. It looks very similar. I just wanted to throw that out there in case anyone else has seen this in the rock. I also have lots of pictures of the area if anyone wants them. Where should I post them? Also, if anyone has any ideas or wants to arrange to meet with my friends and myself in Saint Augestine, they can email me. My email is my name on these forums @msn.com. I live roughly less than two hours away from St. Augustine. As some of you may know I'm all for the FOY or Island theories and would love to discuss anyone's St. Augestine theories or ideas! Chris

hmmm

Cobock, post your pictures here. You can upload them to a picture server like Imageshack or Flickr and then just insert the URL in your posts.

I'll post them on my flickr account this evening or tomorrow. I've got them on one of my CDs. You can access my photos on the photos section my website www.chrisbock.org

and look under any flagpole  ;D did anyone check around the planetarium? stars could move by day... hxxp://flickr.com/photos/jaxlass/1625621180/

From what I understand, the Planetarium has been checked on one side already. Enough so to tell me that it's not by the planetarium. Getting permission to dig in the FOY park seems too difficult to me. Probably never going to be found if it's in there, but I have been known to be wrong... Saint Augustine is just soo much fun. The whole city feels like a treasure hunt, with or without the casque.

cobock1, there is someone on this board that worked there, and she could help if you have ideas. you'd have to read all the thread of image 6 to find out her name.  verse 9 and image 6.

Her name is Sawdusty on this board and she has now moved from St. Augustine to a place out west.  She is a wealth of knowledge but no longer attached to FOY as before.

thanks stercox!

Another Florida Keys Idea We know Ponce De Leon explored this region. There has also been mention of the flag possibly representing the keys. Something else had been bugging me... that blue gem  like an eye on a face staring back at me... Well... I looked more closely at the Keys for island shapes and such... here's what I found. On Big Pine Key there is thing called (appropriately) the "Blue Hole " Here's some info on that:  The Blue Hole is an abandoned rock quarry that was used for nearby road fills and Henry Flagler's Overseas Railroad. The water it contains is mostly fresh and is used by various wildlife in the area, such as birds, snakes, alligators and feral Green iguanas. It is part of the National Key Deer Refuge. Big Pine Key is located at  24°41′10″N  81°21′40″W  (does anyone else but me also see these possible numbers ?) The kicker was the position of the Blue Hole in relation to the large bay like formation on the lower eastern side of the island. Nearly identical to the Blue Gem and the big dark section to the lower right of the gem. Some will not like this because it is not an "EXACT" match. (though fair representations are more likely than exact X-marks-the-spot mapping) Bear with me... Above the dark space looks like a shark or some kind of fish...which could easily be blocking the rest of the coastal view of the island. Supporting this I found this reference "A former shark processing plant is located on the east side of the key" Here is a picture of what I'm talking about... I've voided out the dark area and red-outlined the shark/fish shape and included a satelite map as well as a plain map. Any Florida Key fans out there?

Cormac wrote:: There has also been mention of the flag possibly representing the keys. I do like this idea but I am still a firm believer that the jewel in this P represents good old Okeechobee

i know this thread is for p-6, just thinking Verse 9 for p-6,  and if so may help pinpoint location, if one of the below is what was, meant by these lines The first chapter Written in water Near men With wind rose could this mean anemometer stations and/or a data bouy data bouy hxxp://www.ndbc.noaa.gov/obs.shtml anemometer stations or a Meteorological Station hxxp://www.infomonitors.com/weather_station.htp

fox wrote:: I find this interesting.....which supports our St Augustine idea (which seems pretty sound to me) even more.. this pic was titled "Gates into St Augustine" and am trying to locate where they are.... I'm pretty certain that's at Castillo de San Marcos.  I saw this picture this morning on Wikipedia and it reminded me a bit of the white rock and tree in image 6: Did some looking on flickr.com and found this: What do y'all think about Castillo de San Marcos being the white rock in the image?  It looks like the FOY Nat'l Archaeological Park is maybe 1 mile north of it.

Jambone, Great find! Keep looking! AP

fox i think you may be right about lake O lake O seems a little off, the rest seems ok though

Jambone wrote:: I'm pretty certain that's at Castillo de San Marcos.  I saw this picture this morning on Wikipedia and it reminded me a bit of the white rock and tree in image 6: Did some looking on flickr.com and found this: What do y'all think about Castillo de San Marcos being the white rock in the image?  It looks like the FOY Nat'l Archaeological Park is maybe 1 mile north of it. I really like this idea.  Is this fort visible from parts of FOY park?  Maybe we should limit our search area to only that portion of the park where the fort is visible...ESPECIALLY if the palm tree is visible as well.

hmmmm, I just Google Mapped the area and I don't even think the fort is visible from anywhere in FOY....but, even if it is visible, it would not look like the white rock in the water of P6 [we would be looking at it from the wrong angle]

every time i look at the rock, and the rocky texture of pic, i think of hutchinson island, hutch is farther south of foy, maybe bp was just trying to get you to the right coast. if i remember there are some state parks near by. link to some pics of hutch hxxp://outdoors.webshots.com/album/557330801XDeaDx

was looking into the fort and palm trees, all i got was this wiki pic/ cant seem to find one of the other side of the fort it appears that the fort is surrounded by a break wall, that should take care of any questions of erosion from the water/ocean good pic of fort hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Casti ... rama_1.jpg full resolution hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... rama_1.jpg palm trees/ cant decide which palm trees are at the fort. palms are a pretty hardy tree,since these are cared for, chances are good, the tree your looking for is still there, alive and well not sure how many hurricanes, have went over the fort, but palms can usualy make it through one hxxp://www.sunpalmtrees.com/Palm-Trees- ... -Palms.htm hurricane florida, from 1851-2006 look at fla, NE listing only 22 and no 4 or 5 category hxxp://www.aoml.noaa.gov/hrd/tcfaq/E19.html hxxp://www.usatoday.com/weather/hurican ... /whfla.htm

does anyone know what this is, found on google maps, looking at foy park this is in the park had another idea for p-6 maybe all the rock looking thing, with the jewel in it is suppose to be alligator skin, foy has an alligator pen i think the side of the fort we couldnt see hxxp://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/c ... rama_3.jpg

This is an oblisk monument, a marker where the Spaniard came ashore.  It matches the icon on the conquistador's flag in the drawing.  There is not alligator pen at FOY.

edited for apology for missing stercox work a big sorry stercox i didnt go far enough back in the threads hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i ... ic=1130.15 i did a quick look see for this info in threads not sure if it was mentioned, sorry if it was i may have found a connection to these lines of verse v-9 check out the stuff below Stars move by day Sails pass by night Even in darkness Stars move by day (2) The Planetarium. This is one of the best (and one of the most informative) attractions offered at the Fountain of Youth Park. Visitors enjoy a plunge into darkness as early Spanish voyages are discussed and stars shine brightly around the room. The exhibit teaches about early navigation and explains how the skies would have looked when the first explorers arrived. Small children might not like the darkness but older kids and adults, especially those who love astronomy and science, should find the exhibit very interesting. Those considering the Planetarium should also visit the Discovery Globe, another attraction viewed entirely in the dark. link to above hxxp://www.associatedcontent.com/articl ... cover.html Sails pass by night a link to a review of the Discovery Globe Another exhibit I didn't manage to catch is the Discovery Globe. I wish I had, it sounds interesting: "In an amazing 8 minute presentation visitors are immersed in total darkness ad with the aid of an immense two story globe and black light, the journeys of the early explorers and other items of historical importance are mapped out." hxxp://www.great-florida-vacations.com/ ... youth.html one more /Shell, limestone, silver, salt The Salt Cellar: Displayed in the Spring House is an exact Pewter reproduction of a Salt Cellar which was discovered in 1904 by Dr. Louella Day MacConnell. The Salt Cellar is believed to have been a gift to Ponce de Leon from Columbus in commemoration of their 1493 voyage across the Atlantic together. hxxp://www.great-florida-vacations.com/ ... youth.html and maybe the rock and tree is in one of the dioramas hxxp://members.virtualtourist.com/m/p/m/32c732/ stercox thanks for info and i figuered out the pit was else where

cw0909 - all this was mentioned before. In fact, most of these are our best working hypotheses.

except the alligator skin idea cw, that's original i think haven't had much time to research, still reading everyone's posts when i can. and i don't remember that about the obelisk being the symbol in the flag, thanks for mentioning it stercox.

I think this is the obelisk everyone is referring to..... but, I don't think this is big enough to take up that large 'roundish-rocky-looking' area in cw's post.  If I remember correctly, this obelisk IS in the same area because the trail matched the P's banner but I don't think it is where cw shows.  Please, correct me if I am mistaken. I also find this very interesting since they keep popping up everywhere... this was found at: hxxp://flickr.com/photos/mainmanwalkin/3074103693/

and finally....{at least for now} I have read off and on that FOY is also known as the Fountain of Youth Archaeological Park.  Although that is a fitting name to go digging at, would we even be allowed to dig IN the park?  There also seems to be an entrance fee...but maybe this was enacted after BP interred a casque there. We all know that images from the P's have been visible both in Cleveland as well as in Chicago.  My question is this:  In either of those locations, were any V words/phrases visible as well?  We all know that the entrance sign of FOY says "The First Chapter" so maybe this is the 'thing' that can be seen at the dig site.  Could the grassy areas across Magnolia St {as seen in below link} be a possible dig site? hxxp://flickr.com/photos/roundamerica/3123714209/

this pic has a tall tree and picket fence and there is a flag on the sign: hxxp://www.panoramio.com/photo/3441930 i like around the planetarium because of the stars move by day and sails pass by night lines but surely everyone has been all over this place. but then i wonder, if the first lines mean "a road we use", then water street is over by the great cross and nombre de dios. does anyone think the cathedral basillica looks like the building on p. 205, the unreal estate brokers?

cw0909 wrote:: does anyone know what this is, found on google maps, looking at foy park this is in the park I believe that is a monument that , when looked at from overhead, matches the shape on the pennant in image 6.  Here's a section of image 6 with a piece of the park map (from a photo in the yahoo group added by Egbert I believe) added to it:

I really beleive it is around FOY Park, there are several parks near/adjacent, as well as St Augustine nearby. But The actual FOY park is private property and was back then also. There is a verse that says " get permission to dig out" This verse does not, therefore it cant be actually on the FOY grounds...

Nice picture Jam

i did a google street veiw all along Magnolia , ill try to get to them in a slide show or something, i have links for the Archaeological Park thing mention, from memory they have been digging since 1976, here are some links to study, im swamped with paperwork and have to go to columbus, for 4 days, ill try to get the streetview together while im gone links too comments ect.,under about the sites contents hxxp://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/histarch/galle ... how-to.asp Excavation history hxxp://www.flmnh.ufl.edu/histarch/Colle ... of%20youth photos of park only first 3 pgs hxxp://public.fotki.com/Marlonfleenor/1 ... e-florida/ stercox sorry again for not going back far enough in the threads sidenote if you use v-10 the fort has a v shape at waters edge and the lislands along that part of coast are refered to as barrier islands, just a thought

I really think you guys are reinventing the wheel here.  I've personally been to that park 4 times, interviewed the longtime employees and the owner, and have photographed almost every inch of it which was presented on this board in Webshot slide show for everyone to see some time ago.  For me there is no doubt about this park--all these confirmers that are being presented recently have been documented previously.  Success in finding the casque at this park would require pictures of the areas of interest inside the park dating back to the early 1980s.  I have my doubts that they exist except in some strangers box or photo album in their attic.  Even the owner does not have photos dating back to this time frame.  Archeological digs at this park occur in an area quite far away from the area of interest.  Our digs have to be focused at this park and that means you need to be able to narrow down to a very small dig site.  Unfortunately, the final landmarks are missing 25+ years later.  But that is all this solve needs.  Yet it seems like a million miles away and that's the rub.  I don't see that further documentation of confirmers for the FOY park yields further benefit.    I urge you to fully review the thread for P & V on this--it will save you some time I think.  But I don't want to stand in anyone's way--if rehashing clues that have already been uncovered and discussed at length historically on this board helps convince people that this is the right place--then onward.

after looking at streeview of area, i noticed the wall in some places looks like jumbled rocks as the pic, and the planteturium and globe and marker for and the first chapter sign, all seem close together and near the wall, maybe its buried near there IMG]hxxp://i159.photobucket.com/albums/t139/cw0909/sreetview/56.jpg[/img]

FOY has always been pay admission right?  were the others that were solved, or was it free admission? i'm wondering if this isn't just the starting point......

cw0909 mentioning the alligator farm made me think of alligator tears, same as crocodile tears.........and the verse says: like moonlight in [b]teardrops[b] but yes, they are fake tears meant to deceive

slappybuns wrote:: cw0909 mentioning the alligator farm made me think of alligator tears, same as crocodile tears.........and the verse says: like moonlight in [b]teardrops[b] but yes, they are fake tears meant to deceive That border wall has millions of imbedded shell pieces. (Like moonlight kn teardrops ) I believe that the spot is at the corner of the green picket fence and that border wall along Magnolia.  This would coincide to the inside of the park where the exit lane would be located.

Yo Trohn, tomorrow night's American Idol was filmed at Churchill Downs.  Giddy Up!!!

Trohn wrote:: That border wall has millions of imbedded shell pieces. (Like moonlight kn teardrops ) I believe that the spot is at the corner of the green picket fence and that border wall along Magnolia.  This would coincide to the inside of the park where the exit lane would be located. That corner is not accessible.  The electric runs from that corner to the out buildings---underground lines.

stercox is that the only green picket fence in the park, and has there ever been another fence someplace in the park and is that the only wall in the park, that has shells embedded in it, one more Q how far does the fence run down the lane, and is there a fence on the other side of the lane/drive sorry one more Q, is there a creek/s in the park

stercox wrote:: That corner is not accessible.  The electric runs from that corner to the out buildings---underground lines. Just following the clues as laid out in the verse. The beginning of the verse is absolutely at the entrance to the park. The end of the verse leads one to be at a place, under bending branches, next to a green picket fence, and (if agreed that the imbedded shells are the 'moonlight in teardrops') next to the outter wall. The image indicates that the jewel is next to (in) stone (simialr to the Cleveland find) I understand the electrical lines, but that is just my read of FOY.

cw0909 wrote:: stercox is that the only green picket fence in the park, and has there ever been another fence someplace in the park and is that the only wall in the park, that has shells embedded in it, one more Q how far does the fence run down the lane, and is there a fence on the other side of the lane/drive sorry one more Q, is there a creek/s in the park There are three green fences in the park.  None of them have every moved and have always been green.  There are several brown fences as well situated toward the back of the property away from the public areas to delineate maintenance areas.  Green fences run near the planetarium and runs down the lane maybe about 75 feet or so, another near the gift shop that angles out to the waters edge through very thick underbrush, and a small fence to protect the monolithic monument out by the water from the wind (this fence gets replaced quite often because the wind trashes it).  The wall runs the entire length of the property along magnolia avenue.  The wall is made from Coquina a shell and limestone mix that was used by the Spanish and which you will find throughout St. Augustine.  (Having dug at night and been in the park after closing--I was never impressed with the opulescence of the shell in the wall, and therefore don't think if this equivalent to moonlight in teardrops, but I do respect the concept).  There are a few short stucco walls in and around the gift shop and entrance areas.  No creek really, with heavy rains there can be some flooded drainage ditches during hurricane season, which is quite dry during the summer.  About the only water on the property is ocean side out near the monument.  Hope that helps, cw.

thanks stercox, i was trying to find a bending branches, as in fork/s in the lane,pathway, creek ect.i thought of these type of bent branches too, didnt happen to see a tree like these did you hxxp://www.trailtree.com/Tree.htm when i read....moonlight in teardrops makes me think of a refection in something of a white, silver color, that would be very brite i lived in fla.for 11 yrs, went to St. Augustine, several times, but never went to that site. in fact in the 80s i dont really remember seeing, a sign, info ect. while in St. Augustine, about the park

That is quite interesting CW...I had never heard of 'trail trees' before.

fox wrote:: That is quite interesting CW...I had never heard of 'trail trees' before. fox i think i remember reading,, something somewhere about...................moonlight in teardrops in connection to the trail trees too. just cant seem to find what it was that i read im sure it was at some,  N.A.Indain site, i think resolving the teardrops and bending branches will yield the  casque site

cw0909 wrote:: thanks stercox, i was trying to find a bending branches, as in fork/s in the lane,pathway, creek ect.i thought of these type of bent branches too, didnt happen to see a tree like these did you hxxp://www.trailtree.com/Tree.htm when i read....moonlight in teardrops makes me think of a refection in something of a white, silver color, that would be very brite i lived in fla.for 11 yrs, went to St. Augustine, several times, but never went to that site. in fact in the 80s i dont really remember seeing, a sign, info ect. while in St. Augustine, about the park I didn't see any interesting trees like that there.  I think the park has always been somewhat of a cheesy touristy spot despite its historical significance--I remember visiting it on a family vacation in the 70's.  Seeing it 30 years later--at least in my memory--it has not changed that much.    With everything else there is to do there, it doesn't surprise me that it flew under the radar for alot of the local Floridians.

i'm glad you guys know the area, and stercox you must be pretty adventurous, i'm glad you're still listening to us. i always thought the "bending branches" line was indicating the indians' "bow and arrows", or an "arrow" sign marker, telling which way to go.

stercox thank you for the detailed reply and.... stercox you say there is a green fence,  near the gift shop that angles out to the waters edge through very thick underbrush, how close is this to the planetarium, and other objects mentioned in the threads would you have a map of the park, that shows the relationship to each of the mentioned stuff walls, globe, gift shop, planetarium, fences,sign, ect. would there be flood lights pointing at any of walls, or anything that would shine like moonlite in teardrops/ moonlite=lite, teardrops=wet,water one other thing i read about a shipwreck exhibit, somewhere would could that be, The first chapter Written in water is the exhibit near water another idea for bending branches, thought this when u mentioned underbrush underbrush as in bending branches hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/mikeculliv ... 090955065/ went back to the parks website and found this, would anyone know where this is in the park, found on the wedding calendar pg, the tree and branch looks like my above post on trail trees which there are many in fla. hxxp://www.fountainofyouthflorida.com/calendars.html i think this is tree from above link

cw0909 wrote:: stercox thank you for the detailed reply and.... stercox you say there is a green fence,  near the gift shop that angles out to the waters edge through very thick underbrush, how close is this to the planetarium, and other objects mentioned in the threads would you have a map of the park, that shows the relationship to each of the mentioned stuff walls, globe, gift shop, planetarium, fences,sign, ect. would there be flood lights pointing at any of walls, or anything that would shine like moonlite in teardrops/ moonlite=lite, teardrops=wet,water one other thing i read about a shipwreck exhibit, somewhere would could that be, The first chapter Written in water is the exhibit near water another idea for bending branches, thought this when u mentioned underbrush underbrush as in bending branches hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/mikeculliv ... 090955065/ went back to the parks website and found this, would anyone know where this is in the park, found on the wedding calendar pg, the tree and branch looks like my above post on trail trees which there are many in fla. hxxp://www.fountainofyouthflorida.com/calendars.html i think this is tree from above link No the green fence by the gift shop the angles out toward the water is quite a distance from the planetarium. There is lighting in the park but most of it in the form of post lighting, nothing fancy. There are old cannons scattered around the property, but no ship wreck exhibit there. This tree is between the many public buildings and the large archeological site where the archeologist do their digs.  Looks like a large open field, and this tree would be at the head of the field with a line of palms at the other end near the water.  And I do not recall this tree at all--I suspect that this may be an old picture perhaps??

hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/stercox This is all the stuff I have on this.  I think that there is a map that can help orient you.  Hopefully the short cut works.

I take it back--reviewing some of my old pictures---that tree is in them.  Hope this helps.

stercox, that very first picture of the entrance, with the sign and picket fence.......how about that area, right there around the sign?  the honking could be the parking lot.......the sign has the men with wind rose (sailors), and talks about the indians........ i had a thought about the last line, about it not being important or that it's just stressing the "fountain of youth": years pass.......just talking about our youth rain falls----the fountain if i recall right, the last sentence in verse 12 wasn't necessary for the solve (brush and music. hush.)........

You can still hear the honking I was thinking near the road or parking lot... but there is also a  Duck & Goose Pond

Unknown: years pass.......just talking about our youth rain falls----the fountain That's an interesting read on that line, slappy. Don't forget also that the last few lines are an acrostic for SELOY, which BP would not have known about had he not actually entered the FOY park. He also probably would not have mentioned "Shell, limestone, silver, salt" or referred obliquely to the planetarium had he not spent a good deal of time *in* the park reading plaques, watching the show, etc. Also, the men with the wind rose and the fences are IN the park, not by the front gate. This casque is definitely inside FOY, not outside it.

forest_, i guess i'm kindof hoping the lists i made might somehow mean something i have "2 informational guys" for this pic.  which i take to be  a "sign" ((lol, i mean like that entry "sign") or wherever the people gather to learn about the place, something like that, possibly.

slappybuns wrote:: the honking could be the parking lot.... This is an interesting idea--when I put this together with something that Sawdusty once said to me---it really does get me thinking in a different vein. Hmmmm.    I think it would require a less confined interpretation of the clues and actually would broaden the area of search (at least initially) and not define a tighter area for digging, which has been my approach to this---because in the end ya gotta dig--and digging holes can be some tough work.  A fence does have two sides and "behind a.....fence"---well its up for interpretation depending on which side of the fence you are standing on.    I will have to think about this for a while....

stercox after looking at your, webshots albums for foy, just wow! on the great work, guess i was reading to fast and missed, your previous posts on your work and thanks to your albums, this Interpretation, was made possisable LOL albums hxxp://community.webshots.com/user/stercox i know this is mostly a rehash, but im hoping some of my Interpretation, will help stercox to thinking, a little dif on/about some of the stuff, that was veiwed firsthand to bad there are not any 20+ yr pics, to measure my Interpretation by i have a little dif Interpretation of a couple of lines in V-9. i beleive you are in the right area, just need to zero in. u r thinking oh! what an understatement still LOL i think all the things i wrote below, can be seen from casque site as well as confirmers, that your in the right place, and as there are no other directions, other than at the base of a tall tree is why they are mention in verse, because B.P. knew the park would be easily found from the pic, as the first thing i thought, when i first looked at pic was, Conquistadors and fla. even though i was unaware of F.O.Y., im sure with a little research, it could be found, as your schematic match shows schematic hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/220708 ... 0493TLIlWq The first chapter Written in water i think this line refers to, the spring house,as the F.O.Y. is what ponce was looking for,ie. purpose of his first voyage here/first chapter and the old entry, dosent appear to have the F.C. sign is this the entry B.P. would have used? spring house is first point of zero in old entry hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/22 ... 0493lJoMEg Near men With wind rose/ i think this is the second point in the zero in, and agreed goes with these lines as well Stars move by day Sails pass by night Even in darkness hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/22 ... 0493AmpdBy #3. Behind bending branches/i think you have nailed that, geezze was i so wrong hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/286266 ... 0493vIvQGt #4. And a green picket fence, this area was prob the old exit maybe? but still the right fence area hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/200402 ... 0493SRSlSE At the base of a tall tree, could all of the points ive listed, be seen from the felled tree you dug at? was wondering why you choose that side of the tree to dig and not the other side, nevermind i get it, he would be more out of sight, to bury it, though 20+ years ago, anywhere around the tree, he might not have been seen if this was the tree, the casque may have been destroyed. to bad you couldnt talk to the guys that did the job, maybe they saw something unusal. dig hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/283765 ... 0493UOGQqw #5.You can still hear the honking, i think duck pond, not the parking lot, as since the entry was dif the parking lot would have been too is the duck pond still in the same place, 20+yr later #6.Shell, limestone, silver, salt could be talking about all the markers, but im thinking the old fountian next to the planetarium, may be what B.P. was looking at. im thinking if the old part of fountian,pedstel part the kids are on was made up of those same materals, as the wall is, then this would also go with the moonlite and teardrops line, ie. water droplets, shining on shells would this fountian have been there, when B.P. was old fountain hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/26 ... 0493rAmLGK Over the tall grass,Years pass, rain falls. an area you would have to look over the tall grass to see site,or there was tall grass and he could not have been easily seen how old is this map? an older say 1982 map, might help pinpoint the casque too hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/208943 ... 0493DLsiOy another thought on maps, pics ect.maybe the archeology people/ foundation would have some old maps, pics, as they need to record everything, and its placement, where they dig, i think even stuff close by, as the area you are looking in

"Over the tall grass,Years pass, rain falls." This section seems oh so vague to me. *Tall grass?  You can find that anywhere.  I am wondering if there is a sign nearby or something around there that specifically mentions 'tall grass' or possibly the indian translation of tall grass or even some type of play on words. *Years pass?  Once again, years pass EVERYWHERE you are.  I think this directly refers to the Explorers Discovery Globe.  On the old map that cw posted ( hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/208943 ... 0493DLsiOy ) look how it describes this building.  A passing of 100 years. *Rain falls?  Sure does, anywhere and everywhere.  I had an aha moment while perusing cw's posts.  This one regards the fountain.  How long has this particular fountain been around?  Was it there when BP walked the park?  Take another look at it and you will know why I ask. hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/ful ... 0493rAmLGK

Hey, guys. Just a reminder, I live less than two hours from St. Augustine (Gainesville). I've lived here for 23 years and am very familiar with this park and St. Augustine. My wife and I are planning a February trip to St. Augustine. If anyone wants me to document anything in the park or around this area in particular, then just let me know. You can write in this forum, but an email may catch my attention faster. cobock1 at msn dot com.

It is hard to make a list of things to document when you don't know what there is to document...so.... document Everything!

fox wrote:: "Over the tall grass,Years pass, rain falls." This section seems oh so vague to me. *Tall grass?  You can find that anywhere.  I am wondering if there is a sign nearby or something around there that specifically mentions 'tall grass' or possibly the indian translation of tall grass or even some type of play on words. *Years pass?  Once again, years pass EVERYWHERE you are.  I think this directly refers to the Explorers Discovery Globe.  On the old map that cw posted ( hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/208943 ... 0493DLsiOy ) look how it describes this building.  A passing of 100 years. *Rain falls?  Sure does, anywhere and everywhere.  I had an aha moment while perusing cw's posts.  This one regards the fountain.  How long has this particular fountain been around?  Was it there when BP walked the park?  Take another look at it and you will know why I ask. hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/ful ... 0493rAmLGK *Years pass?  Once again, years pass EVERYWHERE you are.  I think this directly refers to the Explorers Discovery Globe cool fox had not seen that maybe another site point fountain thought of you when i looked at it

hxxp://flickr.com/photos/29018564@N06/3 ... 3/sizes/l/ Now that's a green picket fence....as is that. hxxp://flickr.com/photos/65819392@N00/1 ... 9/sizes/o/

what would be great is a video!! with commentary! lol to me, "the stars move by day sails pass by night even in darkness", would be the planetarium....or a flag... even  "moonlight in teardrops", something reflecting......."Gazing at the nighttime sky reflects events the way the universe used to be." (i  just read that here: hxxp://eclecticcommons.telldat.net/2009 ... eflection/ )...........or the fountain, or mirrors the tall grass part makes me think of bamboo, but i don't see any bamboo in your great pictures, there is a bamboo palm, but i think it's an inside plant, but maybe in florida it can stay outside... or maybe it's just tall grass, or anything prairie like there? or is the ticket booth made of bamboo? bamboo bench?

fox nice close up of the fountain, and the new fountain head hxxp://flickr.com/photos/29018564@N06/3 ... 3/sizes/l/

I've seen the new fountain head several times during my stroll trough hundreds and hundreds of pix of the area on Flickr.  How long has that one been around?  I really like the old one with the kids holding the umbrella as our "rain falls".  That just 'seems' like something BP would use in a puzzle.

fox from reading your posts over time i knew you would go to that line, for that fountian i too thought of that, but could not connect the years pass part, of that line to the fountian tried to find info on it, no luck without knowing the name of the fountian. maybe i missed the name somewhere in the posts. maybe cobock can find out more about the fountian when he/she goes to the park could it be  as simple as,  / years pass/ means the kids and the umbrella will always be there representing the concept  rain falls

I think the Discovery Globe {as mentioned above} refers to years passing.  I don't think it is related to the umbrella or the rain fall.

I'm thinking about getting a video of the park, as well as TONS of pictures of things that have and haven't already been documented. All of my pics will be 10 megapixel in their raw format, btw. There are tons of confirmers in both the picture and (especially) the verse that lead us to this park. OK, so we're looking in or around this park for an exact location where one would theoretically (must not forget this is private property) dig for the casque. That's where I am having all of the trouble. In the two casques that have been found, there were clues leading them to an exactly area to dig, right? What we need to find is a connection between the picture and what remains unknown in the verse and an actual one square yard area in or near the park. I know BP wouldn't have wanted anyone digging under every tall tree, near every green fence, beside every planetarium (private property or not). I have been looking for nearly two years for that one clue that will place use in the right spot. I know others have been looking at this one far longer. Now, As for the bending branches and tall grass, I always thought that BP was referring to the braches of Hospital Creek and the tall reeds that run along the park's shore. The tall palm tree across the water from the big rock looks an awful lot like the big cross. Take a look at it. It's perfectly straight, and if you look at it carefully, you'll see that three of it's branches look as if they are masking the three points of the cross. Does anyone have any  ideas about those markings (cracks) on the smaller rock that the palm tree (or cross) is on? They look like they may be significant, but I don't know... Also, why rocks? This has always struck me as odd... As a kid, when we would go to St. Augustine for a couple of weeks every summer. We would sit at the children and umbrella fountain near the entrance of St. George street and eat Ice cream. If I had only known the significance this fountain once held back then.... My ancestors were among the earliest settlers of St. Augustine, so this city has always interested me greatly. It's probably my favorite city . It's nice to have more reasons to enjoy it.

cobock1 wrote:: The tall palm tree across the water from the big rock looks an awful lot like the big cross. Take a look at it. It's perfectly straight, and if you look at it carefully, you'll see that three of it's branches look as if they are masking the three points of the cross. That is a possibility.  I just wish someone could tell me why the rock is reflected in the water and not the tree.  I remember this being discussed some time back but don't think anyone came up with any concrete theories.

i'm hoping that's not an alligator shape on the rock cobock i hadn't thought of that b4, but it would be scary digging in florida at night... when i turn it upside down, i can see a man standing, with something held out in front, like a gun or a bow and arrow (in the reflection part of the rock, the blue) as straight and slender as that tree is, it doesn't look like a palm tree to me, so it could be representing the cross. also, when i hold the pic upside down, it looks like a road in front of the tree/cross. another thought on the reeds:  baskets, roof thatching, mats, paper. i just saw these pics, interesting because of the rock and the horse at the hispanic garden: hxxp://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM2RFV hxxp://www.staugustine.com/stories/0819 ... 3296.shtml when i look at that garden thru google earth, it looks like the shape in the flag, but can't find much about the garden........well, scratch all that, one site said, cordova, the other said st. george and hypolita on flickr. hxxp://flickr.com/photos/bunnygoth/527004384/sizes/l/

The stones to the left of the gemstone remind me of the stacked cannonballs

fox wrote:: That is a possibility.  I just wish someone could tell me why the rock is reflected in the water and not the tree.  I remember this being discussed some time back but don't think anyone came up with any concrete theories. not sure about the reflection of tree, did notice this rock in stercoxs foy tour album pg 10 hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/album/55 ... ?start=108 i put them side by side, close maybe

It is similar.  Is that tree behind it a palm?

(accidental double post)

Yes, that was one of the most intriguing pictures to me when I first started looking at this forum. If my memory serves me correctly it is indeed a palm tree. The trunk sure looks like one. I mean it's really one of the closest things we have to an actual marker from the picture that can be identified at the supposed location. In the Grant Park picture there was the fence post, and in the Cultural Gardens picture there was the fountain/columns/etc. that led them to the wall and planter where they found the casque. P6 should have something similar. This would fit the bill, or part of it, at least. We need more like this. That is why I'm making my trip in Febuary.

is that rock a marker, is anything written on it?

slappybuns wrote:: is that rock a marker, is anything written on it? Yes, it reads: Site of the first fort San Jan De Pinos Built by Pedro Menendez de Aviles A.D. 1565 Destroyed 21 years later By sir Francis Drake 1586

cobock, stercox, and anyone who has been to the park, are their writing in on markers/whatever in the old fountian i like fox book with the writing in water, i think bp so far has kept all the confirmers, outside in and around the parks sorry forgot link to another veiw of marker hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/ful ... 0493tskNww

I have also always found it interesting that the path that extends from the Ponce landing obelisk monument (item seen on conquistador flag in p6) to the small marker follows a very similar path as that of the flag. It could perhaps be leading us to that small marker. Once again Stercox, thank you for your pictures! hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/ful ... 0493UGsSsv

cw0909 wrote:: not sure about the reflection of tree, did notice this rock in stercoxs foy tour album pg 10 hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/album/55 ... ?start=108 i put them side by side, close maybe Has anyone asked the artist about the lack of reflection from the tree?

If you turn the picture 1/4 turn to the left and look at the entire "rock" including the reflection, it looks somewhat like a crown. AP

animal painter wrote:: If you turn the picture 1/4 turn to the left and look at the entire "rock" including the reflection, it looks somewhat like a crown. AP Really? I've always seen a moth myself. I'll have to look for this crown. Also, I don't think anyone has asked the artist anything. If I'm wrong, could someone direct to me to the forum page where this was discussed. I did once send a letter to the only address I could find for John Jude Palencar. Just a fan letter, letting him know that I was an admirer of his work (other than just his Secret work, check it you if you havn't, btw). The letter was returned to me. On the envelope it said something along the lines of "Does not live here".

I guess that makes this a Rorschach test. Hey, wait a minute - Rorschach is a spoonerism for "shore rock." JJP trying to tell us something here?

forest_blight wrote:: I guess that makes this a Rorschach test. Hey, wait a minute - Rorschach is a spoonerism for "shore rock." JJP trying to tell us something here? LOL! I'm glad someone got the humor in that. Thank you.

iv been thinking on the  lack of reflection, from the tree lets say the top of pg is north, so the sun is shining from the west on the rock, if you look at the tree, youll see it is dark on the east side, and the west side of tree is brite from sun falling on it, im thinking that would leave the  reflection in the waterline at base of the rock, and blend into the darkness of of the waterline. since the pic ends b4 you could see for sure the tree leaves  shadow, spilling out from waterline and rock, we will never know for sure i guess. also i could be totaly wrong too

cormac asked about a green fence, under v-9 topic and ive gone on pic hunt from stercox foy tour album, thought i would post under ramblings, since this is what im doing fence that maybe could be seen from small marker hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/23 ... 0493oUARuU i think you could see fence/map hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/24 ... 0493UGsSsv fence with a bending branch hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/20 ... 0493qzPJfr the tree in post, not sure what is behind it hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/27 ... 0493GgbMPM more bending branches near the obelisk and the green fence is there though out of sight hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/21 ... 0493PaqCpl im starting to think it maybe buried near ponce, as he seems to be in the middle of, what seem to be confirmers, and the star on map, near ponce and the archelogic dig site, is where this tree is i think stercox could you confirm this tree is near ponce hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/27 ... 0493GgbMPM

cw0909 wrote:: fence with a bending branch hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/20 ... 0493qzPJfr Now, in this picture, wouldn't an ideal spot to bury the casque be on the other side of that green fence?  It wouldn't disturb the area around the obelisk and I am thinking actually wouldn't even be noticed by park goers.

Behind bending branches And a green picket fence At the base of a tall tree hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/ful ... 0493oUARuU ponce or obelisk the trail tree behind sign hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/ful ... 0493LCqIwr green fence in background, trail tree to the right out of pic hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/ful ... 0493zdxdTS pic of stone and tall tree, not the small marker, not sure where except stercox said on the way to ponce hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/27 ... 0493HSfaAP

Ok, forgive me guys but here is a HUGE stretch.  We all know that while BP was scouting the areas or burying the casques, he took photographs of things around the area or nearby which he then gave to JJP for the illustrations.  Now here is the huge stretch.  What if BP was at this site & took his pics of this area after a rainstorm {it is mentioned in the V} like this picture?  I bet that, without too much searching, you too will see our tree and rock. hxxp://community.webshots.com/photo/ful ... 0493zdxdTS

i'm still thinking it's closer to the entrance the guy on horseback bothered me, but then i read where the king of spain ordered all voyages after columbus' 1st voyage to carry horses, and then i found this photo (don't worry about it being in madrid, lol) which, i think it says, "this is the spot" hxxp://www.fotosearch.com/UNT247/u11947362/ so if we pretend the palm is the large cross that you can see from the southeast of the planetarium ( from one of stercox's photos), and the rock the horse guy is on is the old fountain, wouldn't it be somewhere close to the entrance?......then u could still hear the honking from the parking lot. ..... i'm still not clear where the goose pond is situated is it possible that the rock in the water is the planetarium, i'm trying to draw a line from the cross, thru planetarium, thru fountain........like that but then, if the rock is the old fountain, and that's the obelisk in the flag.......it's probably right there behind the fence  by the obelisk.........sorry, i go in circles

i made stercox map a little bigger, this should help with what is where and thier relationship, to each area of the park

thanks cw0909! that duck pond is straight toward ponce and the obelisk

Does anyone think that "Years pass, rain falls" could allude to shoreline erosion? I mean, a clue that we are supposed to be looking closer to the shore? I mean, I'm pretty sure the large stones placed along the shore here (can be seen in a bunch of Stercox's photos) to stop/slow erosion have always been there.  I know that with the two that have been found, the clues were a bit more straight foward, but they also seemed to direct you to the actual dig spot like a written map and V9 doesn't do that. And erosion is actually just what I think of when I think of years passing and rain falling. Maybe that just because I'm married to an environmental scientist...

cobock1 wrote:: And erosion is actually just what I think of when I think of years passing and rain falling. Maybe that just because I'm married to an environmental scientist... Yes, I think that it is because you are married to an environmental scientist... Besides, what could be the worst thing that BP could have done?  Buried a casque near an eroding shoreline.

geez guys, i hope this hasn't been mentioned because i feel stupid i hadn't noticed it. look at stercox's pic of the whole park that cw just posted.   the rock (the big rock that ponce is on) in our picture is the shape of the park. i think.

Does anyone remember the movie "Romancing the Stone" with Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner? In it, Turner's character solves the location of a treasure by folding a map, revealing the real location of the emerald. I think a similar trick was used in a much more recent Volvo hunt. I wonder if something similar could be done with P6. hxxp://www.yourprops.com/view_item.php?movie_prop=17719

slappybuns wrote:: geez guys, i hope this hasn't been mentioned because i feel stupid i hadn't noticed it. look at stercox's pic of the whole park that cw just posted.   the rock (the big rock that ponce is on) in our picture is the shape of the park. i think. That would put the gem in the picture right about at the "a" in "archeologic digs" lol

maybe someone could resize them and twist them, or overlay them together for us

You do have to wonder. Would BP have bothered to hunt down arial photos of the park only to hide the casque? I'm not sure how exact of a coastal map the rock is supposed to be. I'm pretty sure that google earth didn't exist in 1980. If anything he would have turned to USGS topographical maps of the region. So, if you guys want to try out the "big rock is actually an exact map of the park disguised as a big rock" idea that I abandoned long ago, then you should probably use the USGS topos. Unless you guys find that the date on the USGS arial photos of the region existed in 1980. But you still have to ask, whether he would have gone through that much trouble. But you are right, and it has been mentioned on the forums before, the coastline does indeed resemble the rock face that is in P6.

Does that put the gem just outside the park behind a green picket fence?

and, just to appease my curiousity please, are there any speed bumps near the ticket booth, or where u pay, and is there any picture of the ticket place? or wherever u pay for admission? any speed bumps in the parking lot? that's just to go with my fair folks notes couldn't "base" be another word for "fort"?......that would point to that marker again

hello all i am here to burst all your bubbles. I've been looking at image 6 for a few hours and I am SURE that it is not Florida nor does it have anything to do with Ponce de Leon. This image refers to Dallas, TX. First the co-ordinates: Lat 32, 33 Long 96, 97 Second, the guy on the horse is a conquistador, it could be Ponce or any other Spanish explorer, but note that he is dressed in Red, White, and Blue and has a star on his helmet. This refers to the Texas flag. Third, there is the image of the Dallas skyline on the bottom left of the image. Notice the Fountain Place building with its distinctive diamond shape and the sphere of Reuinion Tower. Here is a real image of the Dallas skyline---> hxxp://pages.sbcglobal.net/samclark/ Fourth, the negative space on the right side of the image (the sky) is not the Florida peninsula but actually resembles the south west border of Texas. Now, here's where the palm tree fits in. I know the palm tree is commonly associated with Florida and California, but there are palm trees native to Texas as well. I came across the following article on the web----> hxxp://dallaspalms.com/DallasPalmsNewspaper.htm Here is a quote from it:    "Displays of hardy palms can be seen at the Texas Discovery Gardens (formerly known as the Dallas Horticulture Center) at Fair Park, the Dallas Arboretum and Botanical Garden, the Dallas Zoo and the Fort Worth Zoo." I started to look into Fair Park and then many pieces began to fit. First, there is a mural in the "Hall of State" building. Here is the link-----> hxxp://www.hallofstate.com/tour/great_hall.htm Click on LEFT MURAL! Do you notice anything interesting in the bottom left of the mural? Here is a clue: he's wearing striped pants and a conquistador's helmet and riding on a horse! Now, click on Right MURAL! In the left third of the mural there is a tower, hill, structure, whatever you want to call it, but it is drawn using the SAME TYPE of stones that the hill of image 6 is drawn with. Now, let's move on to the verse. I believe that the verse that goes with this image is verse 1. Here's why... Here is a map of Fair Park------> hxxp://www.fairparkeducators.com/miscpics/fairparkmap.pdf "friendship south" This could refer to "the Friends of Fair Park"----> hxxp://www.fairpark.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=195 There offices are in the Magnolia Lounge, this will be our starting point. "take your task to the number nine eight two" This could be towards certain gate numbers. 9 & 8 are next to each other so we will go in this direction. We need to find how the 2 fits. We need to get the park map from 1981 that Preiss must have had. "through the wood no lion fears" Leonhardt Lagoon, duh! Look at a satellite image of the area,(i like hxxp://www.maps.live.com ) and you will see that the walking path does have trees along it so it could be considered a wood. "in the sky the water veers" Within Fair Park is a spectacular esplanade with water fountains. Here is a pic-----> hxxp://flickr.com/photos/stevenm_61/378092704 Notice the water veering through the sky from both sides! Now, you would not be walking by it at this point but still, it is a part of the park. "in the center of four alike" The only area on the map that is in the center of four alike is located in the top right of the Discovery Gardens (which has the palm trees on display) it looks like a circular walking path with four alike patches of grass. See the satelite image for clarity. "What we take to be our strongest tower of delight, falls gently in December night" This could refer to the Ferris wheel. After all, riding one does give "delight" and it does seem to fall depending on where you are viewing it from. That's all I have for now. I must say that I am sure the Image refers to Dallas, TX but I'm not sure that the verse is the correct one or that Fair Park is even the exact location within Dallas, but I'm sure it's Dallas, The co-ordinates, skyline, and Texas border prove it. Let me know what y'all think?

If this is a serious proposal, I have to ask: How many of your landmarks existed in 1982?  I would do the research, but I am firmly in the Florida camp on this one, sorry.

sorry mattylaroche, no time to explore other places, this place just has to many things that fit. looking for the raven outline inside this park..could this be it? (from stercox's pictures) hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/25 ... 0493ZPqPkr is the silver salt cellar, shells and limestone, and the seloy marker inside this area? (more of stercox's album) hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/274918 ... 0493UtPpMJ hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/227624 ... 0493VCCsUN hxxp://family.webshots.com/photo/292821 ... 0493ekznCM the only other raven shape from the map that i can see would be from this map: hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/28 ... 0493ylFMHx if you think of the parking lot circle as the head of the raven and the tail being "C" on the map........?  i kind of like this shape best, as i think those 3 markers are in this area...plus the discovery globe "immersed in total darkness", and the fences and the chief and the seloy.. i am working on the theory that an area (shape)  in the parks (where the gems are located) are depicted in the image somewhere i tried a mirror on the reflection and rock..........lol, just saw those big pots the ships had.....or i guess it could be the hole for the spring... one thing, i think that is the stylus devil in the forelegs of the horse....he's the native american fairy

mattylaroche wrote:: Here is a quote from it:    "Displays of hardy palms can be seen at the Texas Discovery Gardens (formerly known as the Dallas Horticulture Center) at Fair Park, the Dallas Arboretum and Botanical Garden, the Dallas Zoo and the Fort Worth Zoo." Wow...now not only have you determined that P1 {yes, all agree is SF} is paired with the Milwaukee V, but you have also concluded that P6 is not FL {which seems almost prepostorous to me} but Dallas TX and is paired with V1.  Since you like quotes so much: ..it seems apparent that you have not read through the pages upon pages {yes...there are ALOT} of this hunt and seen probably the most solid quote we have: "What we take to be our strongest tower of delight , only stands at the caprice of the minutest event—the falling of a leaf, the hearing of a voice, or the receipt of one little bit of paper scratched over with a few small characters by a sharpened feather." by Hermann Melville leading us to Houston's Hermann Park.  V1 P8 have almost basically been confirmed by BP himself. plus, I am sorry to say, Dallas just doesn't fit into the other well accepted theory of port cities holding these casques.  I really respect your enthusiasm but it seems unfortunate that you have picked two of the more solid pairings we have worked on for years to explain.

i skimmed over this whole thread and haven't seen anybody mention the "bird/raven" outline.......what are u guys thinking it means?  did i miss it?

What raven are you referring to?

forest, pretend the rock is a profile of a person, from the cheek to the chin, it's real dark...........lol, that sure looks like a raven to me.....but i'm hoping it's  a certain shape of part of the park map, but i guess if you turn it sideways, with the middle binder up, it might just be showing the spring hole...just hadn't seen where anyone mentioned it i also hadn't realized that the floor in the springhouse looked like the rocks: hxxp://www.fountainofyouthflorida.com/buildings.html it looks (to me), like a cross under the horse, and i'm thinking of the old cross that's in the springhouse

Quoth the bird shaped cheek of the stone man, Nevermore.

my last ideas on my "raven"  :p...lol maybe it's representing the headband on the chief, hxxp://good-times.webshots.com/photo/26 ... 1531iUSBYR i couldn't find out how he died, if it was peaceful or not...but knowing ponce died from being wounded, the horse would be on 3 legs, if the indian died peacefully the horse would be on all four, or that's how the saying goes........and whether or not BP gave a poot about that.. i think i like the area around the springhouse, chief, fences and discovery globe.......does that narrow it down.............lol stercox, where'd u go?  have u been listening to us? do you all think that's the stylus devil in the forelegs of the horse?............i kept thinking there was something in the shades, and i think that's it.

A cross under the horse??? X marks the spot :-/

cormac, make it be so.......... it's hard being an armchair treasure hunter, all these ideas.........lol sorry guys, when i said "my last idea"...........i meant my latest....lol

I understand that you guys have put alot of time, effort, and emotion into solving this hunt. Therefore, I am not surprised that when someone new comes along and offers a different perspective other than your own you are inclined to automatically reject it in such an arrogant and snobbish way. It's ok though, no hard feelings. But I do have one question. How can your theories be "almost basically confirmed"? If something is confirmed, there cannot be any doubt about it. Almost confirmed? lol I think it's fair to say that the finding of a casque is the only measure of confirmation.

Oh, and concerning your Hermann Park theory....... The park is named after its donar, George Hermann, and has nothing to do with Herman Melville, the spelling isn't even the same. And that's your "most solid" evidence? Sounds like a real stretch to me. But hey, good luck with it!

We never said the park was named after Melville....nor did we claim that they were spelled the same.  The QUOTE by Melville, coupled with ALL of the other confirmers discussed ad nauseum throughout the past who knows how many pages {perhaps you haven't read up as you claim} leads us to Hermann Park.  This park was CONFIRMED to be THE park by BP himself before he passed away.  I really don't think this one is a "real stretch" at all...but hey, good luck anyways.

Unknown: I understand that you guys have put alot of time, effort, and emotion into solving this hunt. Therefore, I am not surprised that when someone new comes along and offers a different perspective other than your own you are inclined to automatically reject it in such an arrogant and snobbish way. It's ok though, no hard feelings. But I do have one question. How can your theories be "almost basically confirmed"? If something is confirmed, there cannot be any doubt about it. Almost confirmed? lol I think it's fair to say that the finding of a casque is the only measure of confirmation. Unknown: i am here to burst all your bubbles. So then, Matty, the thing that you need to do is to dig up the casque in Dallas--and if you do, I think you will be surprised at how gracious the apologies can be. But before you set out on your road trip, perhaps you ought to read through the verse 9-image 6 posts and the verse 1-image 8 posts. And you might want to find another way of presenting your "evidence" than the following: Because in some people's minds, that might sound just a teensy bit presumptious, since it could be said that you apparently based your entire theory on one section of one mural, the bottom Southewestern border of a state, two of three numbers, and a single article about palm trees in Texas. We have palm trees here in Ohio, too, but I'm not basing any theories on them. No one is trying to quash your enthusiasm--but you needn't reinvent the wheel if it is already working.

But your Ohio palm trees don't look like our P and are probably very hard to dig under

shecrab wrote:: But before you set out on your road trip, perhaps you ought to read through the verse 9-image 6 posts and the verse 1-image 8 posts. We all know how addicting these hunts can be and a lengthy roadtrip can be very costly.  On another hunt I was working on I was sure I knew where a treasure was and used the company credit card {I was completely broke at the time} to 'sponsor' a trip.  Needless to say, the treasure was not found...turned out to be several states away...  Fortunately, my explanation to the boss appeased them and my debt was slowly taken from my paychecks. It isn't that we are completely shrugging your ideas off, but there have been lots of work on these and we are fairly certain that we have nailed down quite a few of the PV pairings and have:  a City {almost positively}; a Park {fairly certain}; and a Site to dig {still working on these}.  My 'attack' on your idea was NOT meant to be an 'attack' and I apologize if it sounded that way.  It is just that it seems that when new members arrive {which we always want because new ideas can be just what is needed}, they seem to always go after the P or V or both that seem to be the most concrete of them all.  Cases in point: (a) our Houston PV pairing is about as solid as they come.  The author has done everything but tell us "exactly" where to dig.  I find it very hard to imagine that we have either the P ( 8 ) or the V (1) incorrect...yet we arrived at the proper location.  (b) the Florida PV pairing of P6/V9.  Ponce de Leon, the Florida shape in the mountain with the jewel representing Lake Okochobe, palm trees, etc...  Are these too obvious?  I don't think so.  Maybe a P containing only one of these could possibly mislead us but when they keep adding up...hmmm.  Or, if we didn't have a V that leads us to FL, then maybe we are wrong.  But, along comes V9.  When coupled with a FL P, too many lines in V9 tell us we are correct in not only the state of FL but to a very specific park...the Fountain of Youth Park. By all means mattyL, keep the ideas coming.  But as shecrab stated, before you come out and say 'you guys are so wrong', perhaps you should try [yes, there is alot] to catch up with all of the hard work done here.  And also, please don't take these posts as personal attacks.  Even us oldtimers have tossed out some very outrageous ideas.  I was very hardheaded and convinced V1P2 lead to the Four Corner area.  I KNEW I was right but no one would listen.  Too bad someone noticed that the lines on the lion's head looked kind of like Charleston.  Darn them.  P4 was also DEFINITELY somewhere in PA...most likely Pittsburgh but then Sir Egg had to go to Cleveland and dig up a casque.  I still think he is wrong lol And then there's poor Trohn and his obsession with equines . Now there is an entertaining story that perhaps you and he can sit down and enjoy with a Mint Julep.   Enjoy the hunt mL, taking the good with the bad.

lol, there's a bamboo thicket right in front of the ponce de leon statue!  .........tall grass from bclews picture: hxxp://images35.fotki.com/v1172/fileBie ... 0_9531.jpg

Unknown: By all means mattyL, keep the ideas coming.  But as shecrab stated, before you come out and say 'you guys are so wrong', perhaps you should try [yes, there is alot] to catch up with all of the hard work done here.  And also, please don't take these posts as personal attacks.  Even us oldtimers have tossed out some very outrageous ideas.  I was very hardheaded  and convinced V1P2 lead to the Four Corner area.  I KNEW I was right but no one would listen.  Too bad someone noticed that the lines on the lion's head looked kind of like  Charleston. Sorry for the late reply---I've spent the last six days in the hospital with a back injury--better now, but still under treatment. If my reply seems vague or disjointed, blame the Percocet. Fox says: I must concur here. When I first began searching the hunt, I found so many "matches" with the Charleston picture and the Niagara Falls area that I actually had two people convinced to meet me there in the spring when the ground thawed--absolutely convinced Iknew exactly where to dig for it and everything. I had actually made travel arrangements. Sadly, my biggest supporter and partner died, and I decided at that time to read through the remaining posts I'd not yet read through, and that's when I discovered that yes, though the matches to Niagara WERE valid enough, the ones to Charleston were VALIDER. (hahhahah...more valid, you know what I mean..!) We do want to hear new ideas. But not ideas that will not fit BETTER than ideas we already have. So please don't take offense at our sometimes bristly replies. I had the same sort of feeling at first, too. I think we all did. Welcome to the hunt, and keep those ideas percolating. You never know what might pop out.

shecrab wrote:: the ones to Charleston were VALIDER. shecrab wrote:: So please don't take offense at our sometimes bristly replies. I had the same sort of feeling at first, too. I think we all did. shecrab wrote:: Welcome to the hunt, and keep those ideas percolating. Love it!  Let's get Noah on the phone And unfortunately, I think I may have been the main culprit there as well...but look at shecrab & I now... ..... along with forest blight, trohn, boogieman & slappy who are all asleep after spending too many hours following up leads... Unless you are shecrab who currently has her ideas Percocet'olating.

sorry guys, i can't blame drugs on my disjointedness  (more disjointed? ) i am sorry to hear about your back ck, i sure hope it's going to be ok soon.  we always miss you here

You miss me??? I try to be as loud as possible! How can I keep getting missed??? HEE HEE HEE.....I loved the Percocetolating!! That's just about the way it feels! Which reminds me....what have I done with my coffee? I know I made some...it's around here somewhere.... We is indeed peeze now. After a rocky beginning, we managed to find common ground ( grounds ---where is that coffee?) and that is good. Thanks, Slaps, my back is feeling much better. Of course, not much hurts on this medicine. I suppose if I bang myself in the knee with a 2X4 it might, but I don't really want to do that, and besides, it would weigh more than I'm allowed to lift.

has anyone poked around ponce de leon yet??????????!!!!!!!!!

slappybuns wrote:: has anyone poked around ponce de leon yet??????????!!!!!!!!! We poked him just yesterday, but he's still dead.

uh!  what good is being "eternally young" if it doesn't protect you from  poisoned arrows?????? we should get more super powers from that stupid fountain of youth! or at least they should put warnings on the bottles!

I know two people who drank from it and turned into girls.  I'm not going anywhere near that thing! But I guess it would make me smarter.

Unknown: I know two people who drank from it and turned into girls. But I guess it would make me smarter. Some punch lines just write themselves, don't they? That's why I'm not going to reply to this one.

Way to clever for me shecrab.  Here's my family...3 daughters, 5 sisters, a loving wife and one mom.  I would drink from the fountain just to catch up to them, but then who would they have left to enlighten?

The owner of FOY has asked me to share with the group his concerns about unauthorized digging in this park.  He reports more inquiries and visitors regarding The Secret.  Frankly, it makes him a little nervous.    The park has unfortuantely become an archeological park of greater significance than when BP buried the casque there all those years ago.  The owner has employed further security to prevent any unauthorized digs.  Please be respectful of his wishes.  It would be unfortuante for someone's actions to cause a severing of the relationship with this park (a known Secret site) and/or get arrested.  I would hate for this to happen to any of my fellow hunters.  The owner is well aware of the treasure being there and is invested in finding it.  He is on our side and has a warm heart for us Q4T'ers-- But all digging there must be done at the right time and with the full knowledge of the archeologists, the state,  and on the owners terms.    Thank you for your understanding.

I probably sound stupid here stercox, but where/what is FOY?

Fountain of Youth it is a park/Tourist attraction  (pay to enter) in the north part of St Augustine. The first letters of this verse when taken in order form the word SELOY which was the indian tribe who used to live in the area of North ST. Augustine.

hm, St. Augustine? Despite the SELOY connection I feel like this location doesn't match with the long/lat coordinates in the picture, which are 82/83. I think this would imply that the location should be in the area of Tampa, St. Petersburg, or Clearwater. This area is a better known port area than St. Augustine too. But I'll look back at the previous posts and see what people have said about St. Augustine (will probably take me a while though). ~Erik

Hey falcon...question.  I'm in the majority that feel confident about this park for this casque...but, is there anywhere directly outside of the fence of the actual park that could be a burial site?  Was this a pay to enter park back in 81 or is that something new?

The park is in a neighborhood. you drive through the neighborhood, passing houses and you come upon a long wall about 5 feet high made of local materials, rocks, shellls cement... it has a gate in it big sign next to the gate - read the forum for exact text. and your in a parking lot. you park, you have to go through another gate/pay admission to enter the park proper near the parking lot is picnic areas and an access road that goes back past the actual park. It is in this area that I think the casque rests. When I went there were peacocks nesting in the area  so there were signs saying do not disturb. or about 100 yards south of the park is a large public park. but to get there you have to go out to the main road drive south then turn and drive back to the coast. The one thing that makes me not like the fountain of youth park is it is locked at night and the "Non park" is actually the front yard of the owners house that sits next to the park.

hmmm, thanks for the info.  This has to be the place...but I'm leaning towards outside of the park proper.

I have been to the park and area around it at least 3 times since my last post in 2009. All of my time in the park as been documenting and taking pictures of just about every single square inch in and around the park. As a local north Floridian, I would very much appreciate an invite if anything ever progresses between our group and the owner and we are allowed to search again. But I just don't see that ever happening again. Anyway, Stercox, if you ever hear anything, please let me know. [email protected] -Chris

Unknown: Finally, in the Treaty of 1819, for $5 million and certain claims, Spain relinquished Florida to the 43-year-old United States. The transfer of flags did not take place until 1821. Florida then became a U.S. Territory, on its way to becoming a state. In the V9 thread, someone mentioned: The first chapter Written in water ...in connection with Keats' headstone. I know there's a FOY interpretation, but perhaps it could relate to Keats as well, who died in 1821 at a house on the "Spanish Steps". hxxp://www.keats-shelley-house.org/ Florida became a US territory in 1821. hxxp://www.floridahistory.org/territorial.htm There's an odd-looking thing in the background of Keats' headstone in the Protestant Cemetary : The "Pyramid of Cestius" - another candidate for the mystery rock maybe. (Shelley mentions it in his epitaph for Keats, Adonais .) * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * My candidate for "weird imaginary thing in the rock" is an animal with a gem in its ear - like a cow's tag. (Or I guess this is one of the lions referred to previously...?) I'm interested in visual connections between the images, which may be artistic/meaningful/imaginary. The palm tree reminded me of another palm on the same double page. The collection at Keats' home mentioned above includes "Byron’s wax carnival mask". Byron, Shelley, Keats...maybe the mountain figure could be one of these Romantic types. The conquistador theme reminds me of Keats' lines on Cortez. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_First_L ... an's_Homer

I've been taking another look at the bottom of Magnolia in St Augustine, which is where I think verse 9 leads, trying to figure out where the casque might be. This is my latest thinking. (You won't like it, I can tell you that now, but I thought I'd give cobock1 something to ponder when he visits.  ;)) This sixth image shows a star sapphire with its characteristic six-pointed star. Consider a different six-pointed star: This is a combination of the symbols for fire and water, upward and downward triangles, common enough in astrological circles. They combine to produce water vapour; hence all the clouds. The hydrant is water, and the cannon is fire. The gem is in the middle, following the Chicago pattern. The horse's leg, or "cannon bone", has a mini-cannon shape echoing the main cannon sketch below it, and a marker pole to the left. The flag indicates the way the verge opens out where the hydrant is, and the hydrant has a marker pole to the right. I think the casque is between them. Although the wall pillar is tempting, I'm guessing the Chicago casque was buried between the two reference points, away from the fence. (It would be useful to confirm this.) The reflected rock might be a further indicator. This would also fit in better with the "by a tree" theme. Ponce's arm reminds me of a cigarette. "Casque" means "helmet".

Okay, I'll bite. Where is that?

I'll be happy to share soon enough.  I'm in the process of asking for permission to dig.  That's all I will share for now.

2 days and still no word. Dig that bad boy up already!!!

I have only talked in person with a local sheriff and the owner of the house across the street.  I sent an email to the person in charge of the site and so things are basically in a passive state of limbo.  I'll start making phone calls if I don't get a follow up soon.  I didn't want to sound too pushy by saying "if it isn't me, the it'll be some one else...and pretty soon you're pretty little park area will look like a large family of gophers just moved in." Its still a challenge to figure out the dig spot after getting to the general location.  30 years of change has only changed one thing, but its an important factor.  The trail goes completely cold if you don't account for  construction after 1981.

erexere wrote:: I didn't want to sound too pushy by saying "if it isn't me, the it'll be some one else...and pretty soon you're pretty little park area will look like a large family of gophers just moved in." Not these days. The good thing about this treasure hunt is that after 30 yrs it's become entirely non-competitive.  😉

I'm getting the idea that is the case, since no jewel exchange is expected to follow a casque recovery.  I'm only about 50 percent interested in doing this dig as it weighs heavily on my work and family balance when it comes to travel.  I've been doing so much Shoalin Shovel Training lateley that it would seem a waste if I didn't personally do the digging.

You'll probably need the verse to find it, though you didn't seem too keen on V9/Florida. Is the location you're considering for this image actually in Florida...?

Ugh..I just didn't want to say so in blunt fashion, but I admit your inquest has me cornered. I'm only asking for permission because V5 says to do so.  Now you won't be done sweating me until I've confessed the entirety of my solution or produce physical proof.  I'm sure you and others are willing to consider huge departures in thought, but I'm trying hard for progress and fun and have no interest in negating anyone's ideas, but very sorry if having a different position seems to do so.  I've only thoroughly read the Florida theory after producing a solution based on personal research I did on horseback in the early 90's for a university geographic history program.  I think the FOY stuff is great and I wouldn't begin to disreguard it without proof and id be a fool to not dig at an alternate site based on an alternate set of ideas. Its tough to be diplomatic at times isn't it?

Do you mean V5...? Hey, good luck with it, whatever it is! Just curious.  😉 (PS Please don't worry about being diplomatic. We don't do that here.)

Yeah, that's what I meant, Wrabbit. No word on getting permission yet.

Unknown: (PS Please don't worry about being diplomatic. We don't do that here.) Actually, we do. This is an incredibly polite board.

Unless I misunderstand some of the responses, there's little or no room for any alternative to the St. Augustine/Seloy/FOY ideas, which all come from Image 6 paired with Verse 9, is that correct? I'm just trying to clear my head today.  One too many glasses of wine and no coffee in the house this morning has me in a deep dark funk.  Got a birthday cake cooling on the countertop and I'm trying to find some rays of hope to brighten the day. On my first day working on this hunt I chose to pair Image 6 with Verse 5, which seems to be going well for me.  Then I mucked around with Image 2 and Image 10 paired with Verse 8, which caused me to find some bearings but get more lost in other ways.  I collected my thoughts and THEN researched the Cleveland solution to regain perspective and finally finished getting a good feel for the Chicago solve -thanks ForestBlight.  With the 9th verse orphaned I landed on the idea that picket fence might be a reference to George Pickett and that seems to be hitting strong when paired with Image 12.  I reached the point where no more progress can be made without going on location with those and so I've most recently moved on to Verse 3 paired with Image 11 and once I used google earth to get some visuals underneath the overpass along Beacon St. between E/W Charlesgate, again I'm at the point where a closure inspection of the area on location would be best. I've had a series of breakthroughs and I can see they are meaningless without physically producing a casque.  I only hope the flaws in my offerings would be called out in a frank or precise way before being smothered under the blanket of "favorite flavor" constructs. As best as I can tell, Priess had a taste for art, history, architecture, and romantic literature.  He's pulled from the Greek, Civil War and Anti-slavery, Native American, French-lingual, Art Deco, focus on columns, walls, windows, statues, ...gosh, you name it, and a nuance for literary obscurity.  Multiple themes seem to abound and I'm sure I'm missing some, but I see many things as related to birds, such as the word "Beacon" is actually like saying "beak on...a bird of course".  Some things maybe related to Byron the poet, or to something just to do with 'Lord' or alternate titles, rank, or standing...I wonder if I should expect some homage to Cyrano de Bergerac... Of course I'm not taking things at face value, I've worked with a number of treasure hunts that offer puzzles that are bathed in the mud of one subject and end up not being the substance of another.  We assume to much.  Our assumptions are what make us the favorite fodder of a treasure hunt author. Today I feel like my ego is the size of a worn out hiking boot and I am out of coffee, but at least I am comforted by a book of J.L. Borges poems and an cake that is ready to be frosted.

erexere, If the birthday cake is for you, I hope your day is full of wonderful things! If it is for someone else...may you still have a wonderful day! AP

Erexere - All your ideas on this book are interesting and welcome...

Unknown: I've had a series of breakthroughs and I can see they are meaningless without physically producing a casque.  I only hope the flaws in my offerings would be called out in a frank or precise way before being smothered under the blanket of "favorite flavor" constructs. I'm sorry you think we're just being stubborn and hidebound instead of using what is likely, what is obvious and what is most sensible. If you want only validation for your ideas, you're probably in the wrong place. If you want to act on those ideas, certainly nothing in the universe should stop you, no matter what anyone says or thinks. The denizens of this board are trying to give you the benefit of years of experience and research with a healthy dose of common sense. You may accept or reject all if it pleases you--no one will be at all upset or offended. You must believe me when I tell you that there have been a lot of people who have had "breakthroughs" but not a single one has produced any results. We have said over and over again, this is not really the purpose of this hunt anymore, since you are not going to get a prize even if you unearth something that looks like a 30 year old plexiglass box with a ceramic key in it. There is no competition here. This is not a board for those who would wish to get their name in the paper. Basically, this is going to be a mental exercise only--so your ideas are always welcomed, but not if you expect the rest of us to fall into your train of thought without letting you know what conclusions have already been reached. Basically, you should do what you want to do and think what you want to think without worrying so much about whether or not others agree. Nothing prevents you from going anywhere and digging up anything you want, but by the same token, nothing stops the rest of us from saying that we don't feel it's the right place.

I've been working up my fervor so much that when there was no coffee or other replacement for imediate gratification I naturally looked for a community response to my recent post activity.  Of course I was disappointed if responses from a community that has had years of opportunity to build up a cannon of theory doesn't either quickly dismantle or validate.  I want all the validation I can get if that is what it takes to get someone on board with checking out any of my ideas.  This forum has to be the right place if a casque is to be found.  Let's get the job done.  Give attention if it helps, ignore if it doesn't help, just sing clear whatever hope or confidence there might be.  I am only hours and a day spent on internalizing the annals here at Q4T and it seems to me some folks have fallen into a slumber of activity and others have gone cryptic or too deep into one line of thought. I appreciate the welcomes.  This is a mature group and I don't take offense or have the view that I'm seen as an outsider.  I know its off-putting when I go about sharing ideas that oppose the mainstream, so I don't expect praise.  I've learned to pat myself on the back and let nothing stop me from helping others, which is why I'm here to help someone find a casque.  Now please point me in their direction if they aren't already on these forums.  I need one volunteer in Boston and one in the Puget Sound area. AP- thanks, I celebrated my 4 year old's birthday.  She's very happy.  I installed a zipline in the backyard so she could send her toys across in a little basket.

erexere wrote:: I need one volunteer in Boston and one in the Puget Sound area. Wow...again I side with shecrab  :(S What the heck is wrong with me? lol  It isn't that we don't want to hear other ideas...keep them coming. That is pretty much what lead us to the Cleveland find.  One thing that I (not speaking for the rest but have a feeling others agree) become leary of is when one comes on the board...has an epiphany...speaks of having to check the site...then will share ideas. As shecrab said, we aren't here to get rich. We all just love sharing ideas which may or may not lead to the unearthing of another casque from this going on 30 year old hunt. We all checked our 'secrets' in at the door. Everything, good and bad, gets shared on this board. If I have an amazing breakthrough (which I did some time ago with the lat lon numbers) possibly pinpointing a location, I'm not going to keep my cards close to my chest hoping to someday in the near or not so near future be able to afford a plane ticket to the site. I will come to these boards and SHOUT it out with excitement and hope someone is nearby or can afford that plane ticket.

I am sharing.  If the Seloy connection had been discovered today would yesterday's Selby connection be reconsidered? Any level of compare and contrast would elevate our discussion beyond what has just transpired.  Anyone would be grumpy or even intimidated by the tower of Seloy should they ever pass under it's shadow. Image 6 details soon to come in polished form once laptop gets repaired or files transferred.

erexere wrote:: Anyone would be grumpy or even intimidated by the tower of Seloy should they ever pass under its shadow. Damn straight. Mordor had nothing on that one.

Unknown: If the Seloy connection had been discovered today would yesterday's Selby connection be reconsidered? That was pretty much my whole point...ideas come and go. Get considered, and REconsidered. Come front, then drift back. After several years on this board, I can say we've seen quite a few. And I haven't been on here nearly as long as some. Go for it, Ex. That the idea. Quit asking us to agree and just do it, if you're confident.

Ok, fair enough. So....where were you going to dig the other day and...why do you need those other 2 recruits?

I shared everything I could in two other threads concerning Boston and San Juan Island.  I'm excited to know if anyone is interested in dusting off their shovels. I'm not meaning to keep secrets and I have actually done the leg work and a lot of extra research before saying anything about this find.  I had an overheating issue on my laptop and just got my files transferred off of it tonight, so I can start posting details in a few moments. BTW, I just suggested that I'm undecided if I'll do this dig or not.  I'm not even asking for a volunteer for this one, since it's in my neighborhood.  Still no word from those folks.  Hrmph.

1. Portland Women's Forum 2. Crown Point Vista House 3. Bonneville Dam power station 4. Beacon Rock 5. Mt. Hood P6/V5 Take Historic Highway No.2 to exit 22 and you'll soon find yourself at the Portland Women's Forum site in Corbett, Oregon. The "arc of lights" I believe is the power station at Bonneville Dam which is viewable from this site. The 50-ton boulder is a record/saved/memorial to Sam Hill is the Weight on extending steps/roots. The circle of stones around the boulder is an homage to the windswept granite halls of Sam Hill's Maryhill Stonehenge. The Crown Point Vista House is very Citadel-looking, also seen in the distance. The wingless bird is akin to the beakless bird in the yellow triangle.  Beacon Rock or as I call it "Beak on a rock" is within view of this site just north of Bonneville Dam. The Fir tree at the site is being mimicked by a Palm tree in the image.  The wordplay of Noble and "member of standing" and a close up of the tree needles helps affirm that. The helmet looked like the shape inside the chain link around the site. The direction that the horse and rider are important when finding the dig spot.  So is the centered gem stone in the image.  There is no stone that is white.  When standing in a precise position and looking at another rock you are suppose to be able to see the white snow cap of Mount Hood, which now has become obscured by foliage and homes on the other side of the street.  The stone that lines up with Mt. Hood is the "white stone". I don't know what the flowers mean. *filler* here's a close up of those tree needles An important history about this site is that it is also called Chanticleer Point where an Inn once stood.  It overlooks Rooster Rock for which the word chanticleer is a French metonym for rooster and I think the real reason why BP focused on the site.  The Beacon Rock inspired me with parallels to Beacon Hill/St. in Boston and the Lighthouses that seem to be referenced in a couple verses.  I've got a few ideas stemming from French roots.  Perhaps they'll help track down more casques. WR- nice timing on the Eye. Edit: adding in my analysis of the camera angle for Image 6 (white rhombus), the orange line is in the direction of Mt. Hood's white snow cap, 12 paces (green line) in the direction of the horse and rider's gaze from the west side of the stone that lines up with Mt. Hood.  The jewel drawn on the rock creates an intersecting line with the camera angle and the 12 paces line to confirm the location.  The thin orange line with red dots is the alternate line in case I misjudged the alignment with Mt. Hood.  The view is obscured so there's some added difficulty here after 30 years of growth.

Got a response.  Will still need permission from the state parks and recreation department.  That will be the final hurdle. The really old folks who care about the site are going to have a meeting and see if anyone remembers speaking with Byron in case he was told he would have to have someone to ask permission before digging.  More waiting. Edit:  the thrill of adventure sure seems spoiled with asking permission.  Most likely, Preiss was covering his butt when someone official approached him with "hey, what the hell do you think you're doing?"... I feel just like Caspar Milquetoast on a mission of great importance and everything is okay as long as I don't track any dirt into the house and I have something good to snack on, prefferably chocolate for my wife.

erexere wrote:: I feel just like Caspar Milquetoast on a mission of great importance It's not that important. It's just some ceramic casques buried in plexiglass boxes.  Keep it real, holmes.

bigmattyh wrote:: It's not that important. It's just some ceramic casques buried in plexiglass boxes.  Keep it real, holmes. I was just saying how silly it is to jump through so many hoops for such a minor detail as the line "as for permission to dig".  But I am a milktoast, since I do anything my wife tells me to do... My main view is how it would help everyone here in finding another casque.

*edited lots of rambling* Let's have more reconciling, recompiling, and reconnaisance.  If you see something you like, say so, if you see something you don't understand, say so, if you find any good clear reason to dismiss a doubt, say so, then we will see progress. I've been reading through a lot of posts, only barely half done, and I see a dramatic decline in positive response.  Of course attendence and frequency is way down right now, but in a few months after people have had time to check in, I hope something I've said has helped in some way.  Count me in.  I liked Trohn's Carpe Dig'm.  Thanks again for the welcomes and feedback.

Something that had my interest early on was the windmill / water tower on image 5.  Looking at this image, I started with the assumption that the figure here in image 6 was Don Quixote and so I thought any historic windmill locations might play a part in this.  Unfortunately I couldn't come up with anything for certain.  One interesting resource I gathered was this breakdown of studies done in the late 70's on possible candidate sites for building large windmills for energy collection. hxxp://tinyurl.com/659afhw

Hi erexere, I like your idea of the near and far alignments which can give a very accurate location. So I have been looking for a photo which shows the alignment of the Beacon Rock and the Crown Point. The third scenic viewpoint on this site also has the tree! hxxp://columbiariverimages.com/Regions/Places/chanticleer_point.html

Unknown: Let's have more reconciling, recompiling, and reconnaisance.  If you see something you like, say so, if you see something you don't understand, say so, if you find any good clear reason to dismiss a doubt, say so, then we will see progress. I hope I don't offend you with this, but frankly, Eric, I think you're waaaay off on most of your assumptions and theories. Probably the reason you're not seeing much feedback is that most of the hunters here are probably just baffled by some of your conclusions--not that they aren't understandable, but they ignore the methods and manner in the way the two found casques were hidden and subsequently found. I'm all for new ideas, but you go so far afield sometimes that the things you've offered don't make a lot of sense.  I could be wrong, of course--I frequently am--but for me, your ideas about what Preiss meant by some of the riddles is just--well--odd.  I do think it will take some out-of-the-box thinking to narrow down the searches, but you seem at times to ignore the box altogether in favor of something else. It's hard to deny that image 2 is Charleston, or that image 3 is probably Roanoke Island; it's also difficult to believe that you think image 6 is somehwere other than Florida when the verse  (9) and the image fit so well together and say so many things about a very small location: FOY park; or that the hand holding the mask in image 7 is really holding a spatula for bread. I don't want to discourage lateral thinking, but some of the things just ignore the obvious--such as the McDonough statue's boy figure and where it IS. You realize I'm sure that most of the casques are probably never going to be found--time and change has taken care of that for us. And as I said, I don't want to discourage any new thoughts. But seeing very far-off things for explanations of simpler things seems to me to be a denial of Occam's razor, which is probably the most useful law any treasure hunter can employ. Sorry if I don't agree. I'm just watching, waiting and observing your learning curve here. But I haven't seen much real progress.

wk, not sure which site you're "3rd site" is.  Are you pointing out a tree in the vicinity of the Vista House?  Also, I'm undecided whether we should use true North or declinate for magnetic North when pacing 12 steps.  Whoever ends up digging there needs to have a clear day without clouds and climb up on top of one or two of the ring stones to see if the peak of Mt. Hood is viewable over a tree and set of rooftops just down the road.  I think it will be.  I previously thought it was obscured, but I hadn't perched or roosted on any of the stones to check. shecrab, I'm fine with anyone willing to exercise their wisdom.  Absence of feedback isn't a problem either.  Lots of folks who would be interested just haven't checked in in awhile.  Occam's doesn't refute one idea over another simply because one is favored or accepted by consensus.  It's more about qualifying the quantity of assumptions.  Regardless of whether my inferences are outside the norm, the refutation of my theory on the basis of Occam's Razor should suggest that there exists a hypothesis that uses fewer inferences.  I haven't attempted a refutation of the FOY theory because I'm not willing to assume I know even half as much as those who first presented it.  I've simply moved along lines familiar to my local point of view.  My main assertions come from standing in front of a big boulder and saying 'yep, there it is'.  It's a whole world of difference with all the other sites that I've not been on location to witness what might have inspired Preiss.  Anyone else, for that matter, who has been at a location and has derived a warm and fuzzy feeling from seeing more than Google Earth allows, should offer up the same standard. Seriously, doesn't this grab anyone's attention? Could this be a lat/long?

Not as much as these: hxxp://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/22148522/6_LL

Here's another possibility. If for some reason you can't access the link above. By shecrab2 at 2011-06-09

i took a google walk,here are some things i saw this pic is at the next link hxxp://tinyurl.com/658bw74 next link hxxp://tinyurl.com/5vkgxbm a rock hxxp://tinyurl.com/69sjdge hxxp://tinyurl.com/6flmhss a wheel hxxp://tinyurl.com/65pv3w3 2 blocks down is hxxp://tinyurl.com/3ffj9wc --------- Pickett fence at the entrance hxxp://tinyurl.com/3z62twf looks like 2 walls by the pickett fence hxxp://tinyurl.com/3fuwdko cant see if there is another wall from this side hxxp://tinyurl.com/3awuaz2 corner outside of pickett fence,and entrance hxxp://tinyurl.com/3g2a3ng looks like the wall is broken,and almost looks, like the outline edge of the rock, below the bird in img 6 hxxp://tinyurl.com/3esg6y5 cant tell from this side,if broken or not hxxp://tinyurl.com/3v6yff2 another pickett fence near exit hxxp://tinyurl.com/3u5csrw better view hxxp://tinyurl.com/3grc5oz in the PK lot of foy hxxp://tinyurl.com/3wllab7 --------------- i thought this was interesting,from the new and improved website of FOY Ground Penetrating Radar peeks under our feet hxxp://www.fountainofyouthflorida.com/blog/?p=128 if the casque is there im sure it will be found sooner or later and you can see a green pickett fence in vid Archeological Find at Fountain of Youth hxxp://www.firstcoastnews.com/news/loca ... yid=178246

Has anyone asked the archaeologists if they happened to find a 12" plexiglass cube ??

Oh look! The ancient tribes had Plexiglas!! They were more advanced than we thought!!

It's been about 4 weeks since my email to the final arbiter over whether or not I'll gain permission to dig at the historic site in Corbett near Portland, Oregon.  I sent a follow up mail today, hopefully it gets some kind of response.  More waiting.

stercox wrote:: The owner of FOY has asked me to share with the group his concerns about unauthorized digging in this park.  He reports more inquiries and visitors regarding The Secret.   Frankly, it makes him a little nervous.    The park has unfortuantely become an archeological park of greater significance than when BP buried the casque there all those years ago.   The owner has employed further security to prevent any unauthorized digs.   Please be respectful of his wishes.  It would be unfortuante for someone's actions to cause a severing of the relationship with this park (a known Secret site) and/or get arrested.   I would hate for this to happen to any of my fellow hunters.   The owner is well aware of the treasure being there and is invested in finding it.  He is on our side and has a warm heart for us Q4T'ers-- But all digging there must be done at the right time and with the full knowledge of the archeologists, the state,  and on the owners terms.    Thank you for your understanding. hi do you remember if this area has 2 walls, and would it be possible for you to dig there,if it is 2 wall, i get the archaeological aspect, just seems this area fits,maybe there is tall grass behind the wall looks like 2 walls by the pickett fence hxxp://tinyurl.com/3fuwdko

Permission Update:  I've finally received a response to my follow up email a month ago, and now I've been put in contact with yet another person.  I'm hoping this is the final link in the bureaucratic chain.

Yes.  I have confirmation that it's okay to proceed.  All that needs to happen now is a staff person will need to be present and a permit to dig deeper than 1 shovel spade depth will be required by their resident archaeologist.

I really don't mind that the park authorities are requesting the use of GPR before I take shovel to earth in Corbett, Oregon.  I've got a couple folks who might have access to GPR in their work.  One runs a navy diving salvage company and the other works with DOT in planning, but that's just a sliver of hope.  If real money is required to rent the equipment then I'll have to put things on hold. Now, on to the image discussion.  In going over my notes with a level headed old timer named Derrek, we landed on a really interesting perspective.  The Ponce on horseback on hilltop is really a "King of the Mountain" symbolization.  Paired with something I believe is accurate and observable based on my being at the Corbett site, I found that when standing at the spot atop a small circle stone (3 feet high) and looking at the 50-ton center boulder resting on top of the 3 stair base (roots extended), one of the two taller basalt signposts stands below the white snow-capped peak of Mt. Hood.  The central idea here is "King of the Mountain" and an actual Mountain is paramount to finding the "white stone closest". Yes, the negative outline of Florida is in the image.  Yes, there is a palm tree.  Yes, Ponce de Leon is on top of that hill.  Yes, there's a verse that has a SELOY acrostic.  Is it conceivable that BP would do such a thing as utilize some very very very convincing key elements in such an obvious and yet misleading way?  If the goal was to make it challenging, then yes.  Is it too challenging?  What about Corbett, Oregon..or the Columbia River..or Lewis and Clark could possibly lead BP to consider using a Florida motif to mislead us? In answer, I think it's sufficient to consider two main points:  (1) Joseph Lane was the 1st Governor of the Oregon Territory and Ponce de Leon was the 1st Governor of Peurto Rico, but also there are two Forts named Lane, (a) Fort Lane on Lake Harney in Florida est. 1837 and (b) Fort Lane near Medford Oregon est. 1853, and (2) William Selby Harney has involvement in both Oregon and Florida such that there are places named after him in both areas: Oregon named the town of Harney, Harney Valley, Harney Lake, and Harney County after General Harney. North Dakota's Harney Peak was named after General Harney who mapped it in 1857. Florida has Lake Harney. He died in Orlando, Florida in 1889.  He is also part of my theory on image 12 paired with verse 9 for sending General George Pickett to San Juan Island in Northwest Washington. Given the potential that these points have for working up a challenge, I think it becomes much easier to relate to Byron Preiss' method of design.  Image 6 and Verse 5 was his "King of the Mountain" challenge.  He connects Harney in a creative way to disguise an Oregon as Florida location and uses a key connection to lead us to a Washington location.  FOY becomes orphaned as a possibility with image 6 (paired wit verse 5) and verse 9 (paired with image 12) leading elsewhere.

I know this is kind of out of the blue, but I've compiled many of everybody's thoughts - as well as a few of my own - and made a PDF that I think discusses the V9I6 connections pretty well. I rely heavily on the fact that no research is needed to solve these puzzles, only visual confirmers. I think that the Chicago and Cleveland finds followed that assumption. I don't lay out all the confirmers which have been concrete so far, such as the cannon bone or bird sundial; or SELOY and other words found scattered about the FOY Park; but, I think the document represents a pretty logical solution. take a look, please? let me know if you think any of my assertions at the end there are valid. i think you will like some of them Thanks in advance - the PDF is located @ hxxp://www.mediafire.com/?5ly419d1s5myatj (completely clean, I swear)

I downloaded twice and couldn't see any pictures accompanying the nice text balloons.  I'll try later on a desktop. I like the assumption comparison but disagree with the research aspect.  But enough folks will know Ponce as a FOY clue and once there on site they'll be convinced or bound to have the same perspective.  I had a much similar but simpler view, only I belong to a a minority in which anyone from the state of Oregon knows about Lane (but probably not a thing about the soldier and politician), Just based on population of state vs US that's only about one out of every hundred folks and then someone who has even heard of Secret.  How many folks have heard of the Oregon Ducks college football team AND know they are from Lane county?  I don't really know what county FOY is in, but that's not required in this case...so, sorry if im ranting or stumbling on that really good PDF. Years pass, rain falls = how about elderly pass, or cemetery for "years pass", and rain false, like a fountain or mist spewing upward like a geyser or one of those man made ponds that have aeration spouts, so the water drops coming down are not TRUE rain?  Is that in FOY? What feature of image or verse reveals the dig spot exactly?  At the very top of a hill?  In a purple daisy flower bed?  Or just at the base of that tall tree and some line up work with a visual?

erexere wrote:: I downloaded twice and couldn't see any pictures accompanying the nice text balloons.  I'll try later on a desktop. Unknown: I like the assumption comparison but disagree with the research aspect.  But enough folks will know Ponce as a FOY clue and once there on site they'll be convinced or bound to have the same perspective. Unknown: I had a much similar but simpler view, only I belong to a a minority in which anyone from the state of Oregon knows about Lane (but probably not a thing about the soldier and politician), Just based on population of state vs US that's only about one out of every hundred folks and then someone who has even heard of Secret.  How many folks have heard of the Oregon Ducks college football team AND know they are from Lane county?  I don't really know what county FOY is in, but that's not required in this case...so, sorry if im ranting or stumbling on that really good PDF. Unknown: Years pass, rain falls = how about elderly pass, or cemetery for "years pass", and rain false, like a fountain or mist spewing upward like a geyser or one of those man made ponds that have aeration spouts, so the water drops coming down are not TRUE rain?  Is that in FOY? Unknown: What feature of image or verse reveals the dig spot exactly?  At the very top of a hill?  In a purple daisy flower bed?  Or just at the base of that tall tree and some line up work with a visual? Bummer. Let me know if I should reupload. Thanks for checking it out. You're right... research is needed; but not the type of in-depth tangential research I (we) have been doing on a lot of these puzzles. I really think the pictures lead directly to a very small location if the clues from them alone are cross-referenced at any local library (remember, no google). This way, anybody could reasonably and confidently travel to search... it would be accessible to everybody, not just locals. Then, if you brought all the verses with you and walked around, things would start to click. For instance, if you go to your library and look up spanish conquistador and florida, you would immediately find books and encyclopedias about Ponce, the Fountain of Youth, and St. Augustine. Look up Fountain of Youth and find pictures of the entrence in enclyclopedia or specialty book. The coords would match, too. You'd travel. The only thing I can say is that I can't shake the inset image of florida. illinois and ohio didn't lie. I do like your theory on this verse and image. But I think you must match a picture to a verse, and not vice versa - thus my simple research response. I think this image leads to the location in for this theory, and then relies on taking all the verses with you and looking at them as you walk around and narrow them down according to visual/textual confirmers. Am I wrong that your verse ties in the image, and not the other way around? I don't know that I think there is any line that says directly. I think if you just were walking around observing things and trying to follow the verse, you would eventually find yourself in a 'bout 50 yard area from which you would be able to follow the verse and pictures to an obvious place to dig - a tiny 3X8 alley in the cut. I think you'd have plenty of time to be unnoticed while digging given the spot, so no down to inch line necessary.

About my choice of location tying in with image vs verse- Yes, I really went with verse 5 and then found the location had features that matched image in multiple ways.  Two historic rocks blended together make the whole mountain image and then that little bird shape seemed to be "beakless" and it put me on a viewing angle of Beacon Rock mountain just down the river. I can't argue the florida shape and your reason.  You're right, I'm totally claiming that BP set in place a very elaborate and maddening red herring directing us to the opposite corner of the country.  But I'm also agreeing with FOY in most ways because it could be I've found the red herring connection in Oregon and Florida is right.  Can't discern which for sure, but when I looked on to other verse image pairings I found some decent justifications that put verse 9 with image 12 and that is my main draw away from Florida.  Sorry to put up a fight, either way, I have a real solid intersection of 12 paces and line of sight connecting two points.  I can't look further into FOY without understanding what method we're suppose to locate the exact spot. Okay, the images came in clear on my desktop, thanks, it looks very clean.

Hirudiniforme wrote:: I know this is kind of out of the blue, but I've compiled many of everybody's thoughts - as well as a few of my own - and made a PDF that I think discusses the V9I6 connections pretty well. That green picket fence is a tempting spot. I like your ideas about reins and moonlight. It's the back of the Howard Johnson Inn at 137 San Marco. hxxp://www.hojo.com/HowardJohnson/contr ... tyId=01235

Thanks for the feedback... What do you think about the picket fence outline? Have there been any other considerable offerings as to flag?

Four21, I think your solution shadows the Cleveland approach to the verse where it was super straight forwards and folded multiple lines into a clear path to a well defined target using image to confirm.  If anything is missing its a distinct step to pinpoint, which isnt in this verse choice.  It has to then rely on image for direction.  Ponce and horse both gazing in same direction and a pole in hand touching down on a hill...that seems like the way to go here. P.s. i was reading over one of your cricisms, in the form of a lovely poem piece, and I understand better now how my all-in-one presentation 'don't make no sense'.  It helps to consider much of what we lay out on the table is a work in progress and its here to help shape a community effort, its absolutely not a problem to disagree or explore other ideas.  I've grown frustrated recently when i translate some criticisms as foolish sounding, like (paraphrases incoming) when someone refuses to see the Columbia River as a major port-way or claiming the war history with the Native Americans as insignificant or obscure.  I'm sorry that just blows as a worthy refutation. Please continue to help me and others understand the Seloy-based theory.  That Planetarium looks like the key feature.  Too bad they are stonewalling the dig effort.  When a specific dig spot is determined, maybe then the authorities will support the recovery effort.

@ erexere LOL... "in the form of a lovely poem"... I didn't have my daughter that day and was enjoying, well, you what 'cause you read the lines. I'll tell you what, I really like your theories. Nobody else comes on here and boldly throws out entire new theories that are at least plausible. Heck, nobody else really comes on here. Some of your stuff is highly complex, though; but, then again, so is fox's, WR's, shecrab's and fb's (hunters whose tone and ideas i've come to respect). The puzzles do seem to follow a pattern, however; and BP confirmed many things before he died that confirm that pattern. Many of your offerings don't use those patterns though. I think that's why you catch so much grief. It makes the seniors have to go and re explain stuff for the umpteenth time (this is not to say that they are right). I hope you know my poem was in good humor, and that you'll never here me dog your ideas. I simply agree, disagree, or don't comment. I kinda think that until someone pulls some ceramic from the ground, who's to say you're wrong?  It's just been too long, and people are getting antsy feeling the time is near... At least one of the popularly held solutions has got to be right! All these available casques and so many broke people with jobs... It makes for a lot of frustration.

Are the numbers "3" "0" and "8" prominent in this image?  Never mind.  The "2" is the most obvious, left of that is a 8 shaped digit channeled by sides, which makes it any of the possible numbers that use a top, middle, and bottom bar like a 2, 5, 6, and 8 in terms of the classic calculator font.  To the left of that looks like a bold "1" with a slight fourty five degree bend in it.  I want to see it as a "122" when put all together...but that may be only because it fits the Portland lat/long of 45/122.

Egbert wrote:: Thanks for all your thoughts, GP.  Since some of your posts relate to verse 6, I copied and pasted them to the verse 6 thread, just to keep things organized.  Here is Image 6, btw: I think the upside down area outlining the big rock is the back of the head, top of back, top front of tail of a rooster.

Lane Joseph Lane Two twenty two Historic Highway No. 2, Exit 22 You'll see an arc of lights Crown Point's light array, as seen from Interstate-84 Weight and roots extended Fifty-ton boulder on a triple step base of squares (square roots?) Together saved the site Preserved the view of... Of granite walls Wind swept halls Citadel in the night Crown Point Vista House A wingless bird ascended Born of ancient dreams of flight Rooster Rock Beneath the only standing member Of a forest A lone tree, well over 30 years old, still stands over the boulder To the south White stone closest Stand on 3 foot tall rock (9 o'clock side of outer ring, match the face of boulder), look for Mt. Hood to the southeast as its white peak lines up over the northernmost stone which is connected to the sign board that reads "Portland Women's Forum" At twelve paces From the west side Walk twelve paces north (yes, from the west side of "white stone"), notice how position intersects the 9 o'clock ring stone. Get permission To dig out. This is basically the same result that I came up with months ago, but I've repackaged it with a few small adjustments.  I really like the thematic reoccurring use of "2" whereas "Two twenty two", "root" is typically the form of root-2.  This interests me in an important way because I have assumed that the "white stone" is an alignment of Mt. Hood's white peak with a tall piece of basalt, but the white stone might also be referring to the rock in the image itself which looks like a little iceberg.  I've been convinced in a few ways that this is being used to symbolize Phoca Rock which is in the background down below in the middle of the Columbia River past the view of the Crown Point Vista House.  What makes this more compelling is that it is approximately at an angle of 2 o'clock based on 12 o'clock being North (the direction that Ponce and Horse are facing).  Phoca isn't really white, which confuses me.  Phoca Rock is also known as Sentinel Rock and the point of putting Ponce on top of the mountain and the verse speaking of a citadel lend to the Sentinel interpretation. Here is a map showing that Phoca is at the 2 o'clock position from the viewpoint: Here is an overhead of the ring of stones and a 12 paces north from the west side of the stone nearest Phoca as white stone: Here is my preferred version where Mt. Hood is the white stone and 12 paces north of the sign intersects a line between the boulder and the big tree: Lastly, I like the Mt. Hood version most, because it incorporates the primary view of the boulder from standing on the 3' ring stone at the 9 o'clock position which is used to find the right "white stone", but I now realize I've omitted attention to what "closest" means.  The tall stone that makes up part of the sign isn't closest, there is a ring stone at the 4 o'clock position which would take precedence, and so I would end up picking this spot: Maybe this is a sloppy assumption, but it seems that I might preserve using the Mt. Hood alignment theory AND using the Phoca Rock idea as the new 12 pace estimate puts me at a spot just next to the 2 o'clock stone.  Another interesting notion as to why BP chose the 9 o'clock stone for his vantage point is that there are three squares acting as the roots of the Weight, 3 squared = 9.

go dig!

I'm chicken.  Now that I've had conversations with the park folks, Women's Forum President, and the head Archaeologist for the Historic Columbia River area, I'm afraid I've exposed my contact info and might be held accountable for one of these crimes.  I am allowed to probe with a "screwdriver"...maybe I'll go buy an really long one and see if I can pinpoint something hollow and fragile.

I've been pestering FOY about Magnolia Ave, and they just got back to me - "Thanks for reminding. We are finishing up major projects and ready to find that casque! Will do some digging this week near the curve." I've messaged them back as follows: * * * * * "I wish I could be more certain where to look, but my current favourite areas in Magnolia Ave are: 1) Near the hydrant, by the curve in the wall, near the base of that palm on the other side. Might there be a danger of hitting a pipe or something near that though...? 2) In the corner behind the cannon next to the railings. (Could these possibly be suggested by the patch of grass stalks in the image...?) (With the two found casques, one was beside a wall, and the other near a fence.) * * * * * I know y'all are cynical about my Magnolia Ave ideas, but keep your fingers crossed anyway, and if anyone has a sudden inspiration about a great place to try digging in this area, now would be a good time...! * * * * * I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I know how to nag...

Unknown: i took a google walk,here are some things i saw this pic is at the next link hxxp://tinyurl.com/658bw74 next link hxxp://tinyurl.com/5vkgxbm a rock hxxp://tinyurl.com/69sjdge hxxp://tinyurl.com/6flmhss a wheel hxxp://tinyurl.com/65pv3w3 2 blocks down is hxxp://tinyurl.com/3ffj9wc hxxp://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h ... 57#p114057 here seems like an idea if yours dont pan out,if a guy in a maintenance uniform was digging he prob would not be noticed,he would just be another worker dig at williams street and san marco ave hxxp://tinyurl.com/5vkgxbm

WhiteRabbit wrote:: In the corner behind the cannon next to the railings ...wonder what this red square is, visible on Google...

WR, may I get a polished version of your FOY park theory?  I'll need for disclosure in a meeting with the head of archaeology if they will decide to give me permission to dig in Oregon.  She is concerned about my having such a wildly different position where others have found evidence to support a St. Augustine solution.

erexere wrote:: She is concerned about my having such a wildly different position where others have found evidence to support a St. Augustine solution. So are we!  😀 I'll pull some notes together...

Thank you, take your time, and sorry it's not in a helpful context to your theory, but should I find something or not, it just eliminates a possibility, which should be considered a wee bit helpful in the long run.  Send me a link to your PDF file or email [email protected] .

WhiteRabbit wrote:: ...wonder what this red square is, visible on Google... it's pure possibility... that's what that is

It looks like one of those standard signs you can get at the hardware store, with the red letters on a black background, that says "KEEP OUT" or "PRIVATE PROPERTY" or some such.

It says "dig here for casque."

forest_blight wrote:: It says "dig here for casque." Ahh, Humor... thanks for visiting the boards... we haven't seen you for a while.

this is for Maltedfalcon, an iconic image that's 2 hours away from Corbett...wow, talk about a treasure path radius.  I guess it's more about pinpointing a state in this case.  Haystack Rock near Canon Beach.

And where would Oregon be hiding the palm trees?

shecrab wrote:: And where would Oregon be hiding the palm trees? All over the place... BP set us up to eat right out of his palm...

in all honesty, whether you are correct or not... if you flip the pine along a vertical axis, it is an exact match.

Here's my conceptual idea.  BP utilized photos from a series of Oregon tourist pamphlets.  He provided JJP with a mix of clippings, circled the various Rock features and asked that they match a rough outline of Florida.

erexere wrote:: WR, may I get a polished version of your FOY park theory? Here's a PDF... Fountain of Youth theory Taking another look at the "wind-rose" sign in the planetarium, I'm wondering if it was the inspiration for Ponce's jacket and reins.

Huh. Neat observation!

It's been a good day.  Purchased Masquerade today for 6 bucks.  My copy of The Secret is expected to be here by tomorrow or the next day (8 bucks).  I completed my letter to the archaeologist to get permission to do dig in Corbett if I get good results from probing with a small metal rod (24").

When you send someone an email and you get an immediate response saying (out of the office until...) does that mean you need to resend the email later?

lol...no.

Thanks.  I'm giving it my best shot to get permission.

erexere wrote:: Thanks.  I'm giving it my best shot to get permission. Just got off the phone with the State Archaeologist.  She supports my claim and has given me a list of licensed archaeologists to call, i.e. hire, and they will process my dig permit request. Eric. Put in my first call for a quote.  Time to see how much something like this will cost.

Went over the Corbett site layout with an archaeologist today.  Hoping to get to the dig permit step soon. shecrab, I know you said NOBODY CARES, but you were probably just venting or being upset.  It's cool.  I think the general consensus here is that people do care to recover a casque.  Even maltedfalcon brought up the legal issues about digging.  I don't think you should take such a hard stance against a process to do something by legitimate means.  Personally, I think it's no big deal to dig a hole and then fill it back up and leave it looking relatively undisturbed.  All this nonsense about having to get a permit is just the way things work in this day and age if you wish to be an upstanding citizen. I applaud maltedfalcon's recent attempts in SF.  I seriously cared that he had the courage to do it and worked hard for the casque.  My sympathy and support goes out to him.  I think he'll find it once he works out the bugs in his approach. I'm sharing my progress with you all to lend a positive spirit to a common goal.  This is in no way a contest.  I have an earnest desire to meet a challenge with the tenacity to complete a task, that is all.  Finishing what I started is a great motivating principle.  You should appreciate altruism.  I'm trying to help despite the claims that I'm not working on the same hunt or I'm trying to steer everyone away from solid ideas, or everything I say is reverse logic.

I like the fellowship in these forums.  People have worked together for a long time.  Not everyone has to agree and it can be helpful to keep options open.  When someone finds the next casque it will surely lend support to finding another.  Anyone actually doing legwork and digging is awesome in my book.  Even if I find nothing, i want to thank you all for working on these goals which is what fuels my courage to go out and find the facts and find the proof despite the obstacles.

erexere wrote:: When someone finds the next casque it will surely lend support to finding another. Why is the 3rd found casque any different than the first 2 found?  You see, the 2 found casques DO lend support to finding more....let's keep doing "basically" the same we did with the first 2.

fox wrote:: Why is the 3rd found casque any different than the first 2 found?  You see, the 2 found casques DO lend support to finding more....let's keep doing "basically" the same we did with the first 2. I mean two things by that statement.  Both echo exactly what maltedfalcon has said.  We certainly learned what ideas worked with the first two casques and some of us seek to apply that to the others as a methodology.  Secondly, we increase our odds of having a correct verse image pairing with each successive proof of casque.  My point is to pep or bolster optimism so that we can all cheer for anyone's efforts in hopes that the next discovery will either motivate us on the right path or present concrete evidence that we can avoid wasting time on a bogus pairing.  In other words, if someone proves the use of verse 5 leads to a casque in FOY, then I'm no longer going to waste my time looking in Oregon.  In my view it's one or the other for one reason or another as I can't confess to know exactly what BP was thinking or whether he used things that look like Oregon to me to throw us off a St. Augustine solve or if it was the other way around. Let's keep doing the "same" is a great method, but until we know for sure what leads to each casque individually it's merely an assumption that the game doesn't change.

Earlier today I lost all confidence in myself thinking I've ignored important parts of the book by only using the verses and images. I knew Ponce de Leon was a Spanish explorer who landed in St. Augustine and he was the 1st Governor of Puerto Rico.  Of course that doesn't connect to Oregon, but I convinced myself it had something to do with Oregon Territory's 1st Governor, Joseph Lane.  I had nothing else to work with as a way to move past that glaring Spaniard and his horse. Moments ago I read about the history of the Columbia River and the Oregon Coast, this time looking for a Spanish connection.  I did remember visiting the Heceta Head Lighthouse and reading a plaque about Bruno Hezeta, but I wasn't paying close enough attention.  History is just not my strong suit.  Also, I thought Robert Gray was the discoverer of the Columbia River, since as an American, it was his claim that settled the dispute with Britain who tried to claim it shortly after his discovery in 1792.  Bruno Hezeta didn't sail into the mouth of the Columbia but he concluded it was a great river and wrote about it in his journal, on August 17, 1775, Hezeta became the first to map and record a written description of the entrance to the Columbia River".  Way to go Spain!  Perhaps we've mistook Bruno for Ponce this entire time? This link supplied me with a good back story on the Columbia River's discovery and mentioned a familiar date 1818 which got me wondering why that date appears on Image4.  (I know it's seen as a container for the latitude of Cleveland, but is it more than that?) hxxp://www.nwcouncil.org/history/columbiariver.asp

possibly it is more, however it would be more for cleveland. as we know 1picture and 1 verse = casque you are suggesting more than one picture would have clues for a casque and thats a non - starter. If you have to resort to that to bolster you theory, it makes your theory very weak.

maltedfalcon wrote:: possibly it is more, however it would be more for cleveland. as we know 1picture and 1 verse = casque you are suggesting more than one picture would have clues for a casque and thats a non - starter. If you have to resort to that to bolster you theory, it makes your theory very weak. Im not asking for support for my theory with that date.  Im asking whats special about 1818.  Was it a ever established as a critical date to the Cleveland solution beyond the extraction of an "81"?  Hasnt it already been established that instances of familiarity seem to occur across images?  Unused or superfluous information in each image might be of a purpose.  Thats a curiousity.  What about the other date and the arch similarity to Sam Houston?

It's a longitude marker masquerading as a date.  The 18 part of it is part of its disguise.

I was mistaken on the 1818 date.  Image4 says "1881" not 1818. Here's a cool shot of where I think a casque is buried.  I have my back to the 50 ton boulder and I'm looking right at the spot 12 paces North from the west side of the white stone.

thats white?

maltedfalcon wrote:: thats white? No.  The white stone is twelve paces south.

erexere wrote:: Beneath the only standing member White stone closest At twelve paces From the west side This is a white rock? and according to the army a pace is about 30 inches long give or take. 12 paces = 30 feet or 10 yards. Even accounting for shorter or longer paces. the space between your white rock and those rocks around it is way too short. however you cut it that rock is not white.