Quest4Treasure Archives

I am calling the stone that lines up with the white mountain peak the "white" stone. Here's an example, which black circle lines up with the alpine rock formation?  Imagine that all the red lines radiate out from your viewpoint.

maltedfalcon wrote:: and according to the army a pace is about 30 inches long give or take. 12 paces = 30 feet or 10 yards. Even accounting for shorter or longer paces. the space between your white rock and those rocks around it is way too short. Looks verified. Good news, found an archaeologist who enjoys doing side work.

erexere wrote:: I am calling the stone that lines up with the white mountain peak the "white" stone. No I totally understand your theory, I think its bogus, calling a snow covered mountain a white stone, is a forcing a bad fit. Its not a stone, and its not white. its covered in snow.  it just doesnt fit.  even if the mountain was a solid piece of white granite. I wouldnt consider it a stone. it just doesnt fit the verse at all. In reading your latest posts I thought you had actually found a white stone. I was just asking for clarification on which stone was white.  If you are basing your theory on the mountain as a white stone, I am not expecting you to find anything.

No.  The stone with the white mountain peak above it.  Its strange to see you argue that granite isnt stone and snow doesnt fit as something white.  Both are poor choices for factual argument.

Thats because I didnt. I said its not a stone, as a mountain it would be made of many many stones. and I said snow is white. a dark stone is not. A dark stone covered in snow is not a white stone. a mountain is not considered a stone. Half dome is a single solid white rock, and would not be considered a stone. Its a bad fit.

Of course, now I realize you're being as literal as possible.  Saying its a bad fit only because it isnt a literal white stone looks to be a judgement based on your personal methodology.  Saying its a bad fit because there is absolutely no creative, figurative, metaphorical type context in this hunt would be a more believable statement as a commonly understood point, but the problem here is there is much creative language in the verses and images so I think it's a mistake to just say bad fit when someone might not understand where you're coming from.   I'm sorry, I didn't see how far you were taking your methods at first.  Its hard to see clarity among the hodgepodge of blunt responses.  That isnt to say you are being blunt, its clear now how determined and sharp is your point of view.  Thanks for clarifying.

erexere wrote:: I was mistaken on the 1818 date.  Image4 says "1881" not 1818. Here's a cool shot of where I think a casque is buried.  I have my back to the 50 ton boulder and I'm looking right at the spot 12 paces North from the west side of the white stone. I think it should be clarified that this spot was reached from an absolute compass heading from the west side of a natural grey rock just like the one in this image.  The white peak of Mt. Hood sits above that stone.  I'm using a creative approach here, but what's interesting is the origin of perspective is from a place that fits the perspective from standing on top of a stone and seeing what looks very much like the perspective in the image.  The tree in the background is the only standing member of a forest. Here's the rear view when standing at this spot, does it look like a bad fit or does it have as much characteristic similarity as the columns in image4 do to the similar columns in Cleveland?  (might as well stop arguing that they are exact, they're rendered differently in the image with a different texture and hue) This is a weird lookin boulder, it has a very different profile from every angle.  Being very similar in profile to the white rock formation in the image at this specific spot adds to my excitement. The permit to dig is going to take a few months at a minumum.  Would anyone else like to volunteer to be there if I cant make it?  Running a business and two kids have me pretty much pinned down even though its just a couple hours away.  The cost for recovery will be taken care of.  If nobody is interested and I cant make it, the archaeologist will just do the work on his own.  I'm hoping for middle of August or September at the latest.  Send me a PM for details or if you wish to keep your participation a private matter and i'll be happy for your support, thanks.

(FOY never tried digging for this, and don't reply to my emails any more. Very frustrating. Maybe Cobock will return one day and get it moving again.)

This is such a wonderful hunt.  It will be so exciting to see another casque found.  I've seen a good list of ideas here and done my best to pursue them as far as I can see.  Many ideas, including my own, are deadends and haven't been formally rejected or crossed off the list as they should, but that's because the proof against an idea is as hard as recovering a casque. I am truly happy with my focus these days.  I've noticed that I've developed the need for a sort of rhetoric to preface and explain where an idea begins and where it ends.  It's difficult to just show a side by side comparision of a photo and the Secret image and expect people to automatically see the "where's waldo".  I think I've failed to show my focus on something which could potentially lead to a casque by not having a clean and graceful rhetoric to present the idea.  It would be interesting to see how many people just skip over my ramblings. I appreciate those who have interacted with me on any level.  Thanks, it's really a fun hunt.  It's about the fun, and the promise of reward isn't a distraction.  It's fun to separate the ego at times and just be good natured.  Even the bad ideas are gems we can meet over beers and laugh about one day.  I'm sure the next time a casque is reported found there will be a mild resurrection and folks will have a good ol' time.

erexere wrote:: I appreciate those who have interacted with me on any level.  Thanks, it's really a fun hunt.  It's about the fun, and the promise of reward isn't a distraction.  It's fun to separate the ego at times and just be good natured.  Even the bad ideas are gems we can meet over beers and laugh about one day.  I'm sure the next time a casque is reported found there will be a mild resurrection and folks will have a good ol' time. True! I like to think of it as an acid test, throw out an idea and see if it survives. if you can't defend your idea against doubters, it probably wasn't a good idea to start with.  Or better yet prove others wrong and go dig up the casque where you think it is! Then we can all go celebrate how right you were and how wrong the doubters were!

Uh oh... hxxp://www.firstcoastnews.com/rss/article/310303/3/Archaeological-team-digs-at-the-Fountain-of-Youth

Great, I just dropped her an email to ask if she'd look out for the casque...

Any idea where they may be digging? Is there anyone in FL that might stop by and look?

Three stones, a boulder, and a tree work with this image. Stone 1, stand upon a three or four foot tall ring stone near the 9 o'clock position and take a photo of the boulder with tree in background, having same position as flagpole held by "Ponce". Stone 2, while standing on Stone 1 the WHITE peak of Mt. Hood is directly behind and in alignment ONLY with Stone 2 located at the 4 o'clock position. Stone 3, near 2 o'clock position from the west side of Stone 2, walk 12 paces north to stand directly in front of Stone 3 which is directly between the Sam Hill Boulder and the one tree, a nobel fir. This photo was taken while standing at the west side of Stone 2, Taken from the roadside google streetview, photo's taken from the right angles, follow the white line going straight into background puts the tree in the position of Ponce's flag and follow the green line putting the tree just to the right of the "white" stone puts things in a perspective where the boulder and the "white" stone have the same relative position as that of the glacier and Ponce rock in image 6. Thus, in two specific ways the puzzle directs us to a stone which is white: 1) geographically, from the position where the white line indicates the tree as "Ponce's" flag pole, the white stone is that rock in line with the white peak of Mt. Hood, and 2) illustration based, the spot where the top of the boulder and the tree is now seen as the location of the palm in the image, then where the white glacier is drawn is also the spot where we find the stone to base our 12 paces north from it's west side.

I knew Mt Hood was big but WOW....you can see it from Florida?

This is my evocative comparison of a famous geographic landmark to the lower right corner of image 6. It's interesting that many many many of the photos floating around the internet of the various angles of Haystack Rock also share the nuance of it's reflection.  Two specific angles of Haystack are included in the image.

erexere wrote:: This is my evocative comparison of a famous geographic landmark to the lower right corner of image 6. It's interesting that many many many of the photos floating around the internet of the various angles of Haystack Rock also share the nuance of it's reflection.  Two specific angles of Haystack are included in the image. Is there a scientific name for that type of rock?

I'm sure there is.  All I know it's the most significant rock in Oregon as far as tourism is concerned.  I'm thinking that is the predominate element in the photo that gives us the State.

The wiki calls it a monolithic rock but also a "sea stack".

erexere, It is a wonderful photo of a rock... but not an exact match to the painting. The way the artist, John Palencar recreates the photographic images that BP has given him in previously found locations, makes me think that he would be realistic in his rendering of this large rock. I could be wrong...

It might help to look at the biggest most notable tourist attractions.  This is a geological option.  The Statue of Liberty is a different type of tourist option and yet we don't call it some metal thing.  As far as State level icons there's a reasonable list to consider.  If you are raising the exact vs non-exact argument, that's pretty flimsy. This is a very interesting drawing of two different angles on the same plane.  Its impossible to make such a thing exact.  Look at what the art is communicating.  See it.

Lots of "Lane" reference in the legend.  Portland Women's Forum is listed with an arrow and a small mark to show Mt. Hood's location make it easy to use a compass. 1972 Oregon Map I found in the recycling bin today.

erexere wrote:: If you are raising the exact vs non-exact argument, that's pretty flimsy. I disagree totally, the iconic images have always been almost exact copies, The Terminal tower, the map of GGpark and the Chicago Water tower all are almost tracings of the exact images.  While I agree some of the objects in the images have artistic license in their representations,  There is always some items that are an exact perfect fit. usually the image that starts the route to the treasure ground.

rookhunter wrote:: Any idea where they may be digging? Is there anyone in FL that might stop by and look? i dont remember seeing this, the white squares and circles,on the Gsat maps b4,not sure it may be the dig hxxp://goo.gl/maps/ktrm7

maltedfalcon, maybe this is you're iconic match from the perspective of the PotLoH, Here's a google snap shot from road above the lands end trail:

cw0909 wrote:: i dont remember seeing this, the white squares and circles,on the Gsat maps b4,not sure it may be the dig hxxp://goo.gl/maps/ktrm7 Hello everyone, Yes, those squares and circles are for the archaeological dig.  I now live in Florida, so I have visited there a couple of times, most recently just a few months ago.  I am going to be going there to attempt a dig in September.

Yes!!!

forest_blight wrote:: Yes!!! woohoo

WhiteRabbit wrote:: Taking another look at the "wind-rose" sign in the planetarium, I'm wondering if it was the inspiration for Ponce's jacket and reins. I've really pondered this, and I have come to the conclusion that it is almost certainly what the author and illustrator intended when they married the image and verse. I say this because interpretation of signage is already proven to be heavily incorporated into the verse. The board and its pattern, imho, is an exact match. Also, the majority of visual and poetic clues seem to incorporate the planetarium. I've also been thinking a lot about the rock, the tree and the reflection... At the base of a tall tree... Speaking in the scale and the horizon shown in the image, the "rock" is actually quite large, as it is distant out in the water. Keeping this in mind, the tree next it (which overwhelms it in height but does not cast a reflection), must be quite "tall." Perhaps this is the tall tree we should be looking for? I've considered the rock might be the outline of the small cove behind the park, as there is a lone palm just to the west of it that has been there prior to the casque's burial. I have no other reason to believe it might be under that palm, and I also don't think the outline match is that good (but it is a similar artistic match to the fountain match of Chicago). So, if the majority of clues surround the planetarium, and the "rock" in the water is really a mountain that is only included to contrast the tree, maybe the rock isn't there to match with anything. This would give credence to lines from a verse helping to determine the image (land near the window, seek the columns, fence and fixture, etc.) Maybe we should be/are looking around the planetarium for a palm. Conveniently, there is one, one that is WAY out of place and, incidentally, the shortest tree for blocks (an ironic clue?). Everything around it is symmetrical (a reflection), but the palm itself has no reflection: This is the only palm on Magnolia, and it is almost square in front of the planetarium. If you are standing at the planetarium, this palm is behind bending branches (set behind the tree line on the road) and behind a green picket fence (on the other side of the FOY wall). Perhaps the verse is meant to be read as though the base of the tall tree is behind both the branches and the picket fence, making it between them. Looking at the image again, perhaps the tree doesn't have a reflection because it is behind the wall when standing at the planetarium. The image could be interpreted in two ways: as water to help us determine the scale of the tree, and as a wall with grass at the base with a tree behind it. Maybe the "fence" BP was hopping was not to get out of the FOY property to escape the guards, but to get in to the property (from the base of the tall tree) to escape cars that may have been passing by to hide. As in, he buried it outside the wall at the base of the palm. Either that, or it is at the base of this tree inside the property.

That is an interesting theory, Hirudiniforme, but I do not see how that tree would be considered "behind a green picket fence."  It is behind a wall, but the fence is far to the left, out of the picture. However, I just noticed something unusual.  If you look at the planetarium, it has walls sticking out of it which are slanted at 45 degrees.  I wonder, if you are standing inside the park at a certain angle, looking at one of those walls, you can possibly line up a wall with a palm tree so that it looks like the rock/palm in Image 6.  The palm would have to be behind the angled wall, and you would probably have to be standing at some distance from the planetarium. I will be there in September, and check it out, unless someone else can do it sooner.

You are right, Egbert, which is why I only said that the "green picket fence" might represent only the boundaries of FOY, and not an actual picket fence. Though, it is very hard to disregard that as a direct clue. I was just trying to throw some thoughts down. Glad to see you are still around.

I took a trip to Corbett a couple days ago.  I verified that the Exit number was 22 back in 1980 and the section of highway was designated as Highway No. 2.  It's a short mile and half drive up the hill.  This time I counted 24 steps at 30 inches per step to make 12 total paces and it took me to a spot just about 5 feet from the most significant tree in the area.  The area has a lot of mole activity as indicated by the dirt patches found in several places along the trimmed grassy area.  The only flowers blooming in the area are a nice purple color. I tried to capture a variety of angles on the historic monument dedicated to the builder of the first scenic highway in the United States. hxxp://s11.photobucket.com/user/erexere ... et/Corbett

At the risk of sounding silly, I had a new thought after taking a closer look around (well, as close as I could anyway). Common thought is that the face in the image is the planetarium. Also central to the image is the column (I'll assert it is the FOY exit colum). Lastly, the face is facing the palm tree. So, maybe this is all directions..."at column, face planetarium and palm tree." If you stand at the FOY exit column and face the planetarium, several things fall into alignment: 1) The telephone pole intersects perpendicularly with the planetarium dome. 2) The telephone pole would come down through the left side of the dome with the planetarium exit on the right. 3) The palm tree is seen in the distance down a "gutter" (wall on the left, magnolias on the right). Here's a picture of what I mean (might want to download): hxxp://www.mediafire.com/download/c466quvbtgcubja/foy_exit_lines_2.jpg Anyhow, at the corner of the green picket fence and the column is a really good spot.

I don't remember that picket fence by the exit  being there about 5 years ago. Is that new?

If you are going to entertain Corbett, OR as a possibility, why not Pyramid Lake, NV? hxxp://www.flickr.com/photos/smithsonian/4327907016/

Why not consider rock formations in Pyramid Lake, NV?  Are you asking what specifically makes this rock formation in Corbett, OR a better fit than any other similar looking geologic? I've had to rethink my interpretation many times now.  It's a very difficult site to understand.  The Secret is even harder to understand when people use what they think they know about Cleveland and Chicago to establish a foothold in the other locations.  We've all been down that road.  When I finally pulled it together I had to review Cleveland and Chicago more thoroughly to understand a possibility that wasn't previously discussed.  The first line. Lane 1. A significant persons name 2. A common word used to describe roadways If you're not the person living across the street from the casque location, this treasure hunt requires that we gather our facts.  Even before Ponce de Leon landed in St. Augustine, the Spanish Crown had made it's claim to the coastal lands north of Mexico.  Spanish explorers were the first Europeans to set sight on the waters now known as the Columbia River.  Shortly after the Spanish reports, British and American explorations quickly established settlements which resulted in disputes followed by negotiations and treaties leading to the formation of the Oregon Territory.  The first person appointed to the task of governance over this territory by James K. Polk was Joseph Lane. hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanish_ex ... _Northwest hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Oregon_Territory This rock formation in Corbett is a historic landmark, complete with multiple plaques and interpretive markers.  The monument is the first to a man known for his preeminence in Good Roads building and recognizes his achievement of building the FIRST scenic highway in the US.  The highway designations have been altered several times, but that doesn't change the fact that this portion of highway is consistent with the second line of Verse 5, “Two twenty-two”.  Historic Highway No. 2, Exit 22. The site matches the verse perfectly.  A big 50-ton boulder elevated by three square platforms each extending farther beneath it (like a pyramid).  Viewable from the site are just a few notable things: a view of the Columbia River, the Crown Point Vista House surrounded by an arc of lights, and Rooster Rock protruding from the forest below.  Next to the circle of stones is one big tree.  There's no clear reference to a white stone. The image conveys a number of very important elements.  The boulder on a square shaped platform inside a circle resembles the shape in the pennant flag of Image 6.  The boulder has “fingerprint” features to match the details drawn within the rock formation.  It's abundantly clear these aren't exact, because the artist has drawn a unique structure and included some variety.  The portrayal of a Spanish explorer holding a flag to the top of the rock establishes the “first to the top” or “King of the Mountain” theme.  The lines “wingless bird ascending / born of ancient dreams of flight” fits the dormant volcano idea. Nearby, making national headlines in 1980, Mt. St. Helens woke from dormancy, here's a postcard photo: The reason for these mountain references is key to identifying the elusive “white stone”.  Using the position of the pole in the Spanish explorers hand as it's seen in the same position when facing the boulder so that the large tree is in the same spot in the background it places you on top of one of the smaller circle stones. The most significant and only “white” feature nearest is Mt. Hood, seen in this postcard of Portland, Point yourself in the direction of that peak and it takes you precisely to the west side of another stone in the circle.  Walking 12 paces north places you directly in front of the large tree, beneath which you may dig for a casque. I don't think Pyramid Lake, NV supports any verse based approach as well as Corbett.  I no longer intend to dig for this casque.  I think it's a sane theory, supported by documentation and firmly fixed to 1980's relevance.  I see the FOY theory as something which is based largely on Verse 9 and has very unfortunate correlations drawn to Image 6.  The art of discussion seems lost on people these days.  There's just a lot of hopeful bullrubbish being built around overly narrow ideas.  It's all a matter of context.  I totally understand where people are coming from...it's just a free-for-all when it comes to loving you're own fallacy. Oh, here's a postcard of Rooster Rock,

maltedfalcon wrote:: I don't remember that picket fence by the exit  being there about 5 years ago. Is that new? I dunno, but it was there when the goose pond was there... there's some pictures a family took during a trip at both locations. When did the pond disappear?

erexere wrote:: Why not consider rock formations in Pyramid Lake, NV?  Are you asking what specifically makes this rock formation in Corbett, OR a better fit than any other similar looking geologic? Yes, that was my reason. I think the St. Augustine theory has a lot more support. "The first chapter" written on the gatepost, "men with wind rose" literally just inside the main building of the park, "Shell, limestone, silver, salt" talked about on the signs posted on the grounds, SELOY, etc... V9 is almost indisputably tied to St. Augustine, and it must go with one of the images. P6 seems to go with it the best.

i found and downloaded stercox's old album, and the green fence at the exit seems to have been there at the time of visiting. Let me know if ya'll want any of the pics (183).

Hirudiniforme wrote:: i found and downloaded stercox's old album, and the green fence at the exit seems to have been there at the time of visiting. Let me know if ya'll want any of the pics (183). Can you put them online for everyone just in case? I would certainly like to see them.

rookhunter wrote:: Can you put them online for everyone just in case? I would certainly like to see them. Here's the first part of a dump (this link will be updated as files are named): https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t0ubkaytspxze1d/8d57EtAG-g

Here's the dump: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t0ubkaytspxze1d/8d57EtAG-g

Hirudiniforme wrote:: Here's the dump: https://www.dropbox.com/sh/t0ubkaytspxze1d/8d57EtAG-g nice, thanks Does anyone remember who dug at the planetarium in the corner where the tree used to be? I remember seeing an album online somewhere with pics of the dig. I thought it was Stercox but I don't remember seeing a girl in the pics.

I poked through the soil and all around the tree with a metal rod.  It is the tree that was in the corner of where the green picket fence meets the wall.  I thought I posted pictures somewhere, but I do not know how to post them any more.

erexere wrote:: This is my evocative comparison of a famous geographic landmark to the lower right corner of image 6. It's interesting that many many many of the photos floating around the internet of the various angles of Haystack Rock also share the nuance of it's reflection.  Two specific angles of Haystack are included in the image. I'm confused......is it Haystack Rock or the weird looking boulder with the plaque on it that you posted above? It can't be both. This sounds too much like a force fit....look, it is this boulder....and if you don't like that, it is Haystack Rock.  And the nuance of the reflection really isn't that amazing...it happens pretty much every time something is photographed at still waters. Just do a google image search for reflection in water and you get these..... https://www.google.com/search?gs_rn=26&gs_ri=psy-ab&cp=10&gs_id=12&xhr=t&q=duck+on+water&bav=on.2,or.r_qf.&bvm=bv.51773540,d.cGE&biw=1366&bih=667&um=1&ie=UTF-8&hl=en&tbm=isch&source=og&sa=N&tab=wi&ei=UP4qUojpIar-igK9wYHQCg#hl=en&q=reflection+in+water&tbm=isch&um=1 I really don't want to try to dig on the moon.

I grabbed a lot of different shots of the iconic tourist attraction which has been on many magazine covers and post cards. It's sufficient to say it's a consideration similar to the noteworthiness of shapes like the Terminal Tower or the Transamerica Building or Empire States Building, etc. The prominence of a natural rock structure followed by a small white rock structure with a reflection in the image is a simple composition of theme.  I sought to show you a widely popular option. A historical significance to the monument to first scenic highway which is designed to bring travelers from the coastal inlet to deep along the Columbia River Gorge is certainly worth consideration.  You're confused about a lot of things it seems.  Like bigmatty, you say something is insignificant only because you're ignorant.  Just study a little more and you'll eventually get to a point where not everything is as insignificant as you think. The secondary reason for so many pics of Haystack Rock was to illustrate how different angles present a different profile.  Being so close to the beach, tourists have the opportunity to pick many angles.  This is as good as saying the artist could've drawn it many different ways.  For those here who think exact matches of things need to come into play, this is to help them understand we don't live in a tunnel...the world is 3D.  Don't be an idiot and say something doesn't look like the image if you haven't considered that it could've been achieved by a different angle.  Remember, if we're not taking pictures in person, then we're all just grabbing pics that we grab from Google, so use an intelligent eye. So, a recap, the white rock in the water looks like it represents one particular angle of view on the Sam Hill monument.  It also sits in the water with reflection much like Haystack Rock, but it doesn't itself look exactly like any of the angles I've presented.  The negative upside down shape around the white rock does look like many of the pictures of Haystack, an iconic natural coastal structure of the Oregon Coast near the mouth of the Columbia River.  The rock that supports the Spanish explorer is much like a second angle of view of the Sam Hill monument.  Other features in the image seem like they're populated by other popular rock formations nearby: phoca rock (from the Lewis and Clark Journals), rooster rock, and possibly face rock, but that's not critical to the puzzle, just an observation.  Image 6 presents us with one primary view on the Sam Hill monument for the reason that we need to perform orienteering.  The sixteen smaller ring stones around the monument become useful when finding the position to walk 12 paces (towards the only standing member of a forrest).  It's all very credible and not as random or forcibly fit as a lack of imagination might have it.

erexere wrote:: This is my evocative comparison of a famous geographic landmark to the lower right corner of image 6. It's interesting that many many many of the photos floating around the internet of the various angles of Haystack Rock also share the nuance of it's reflection.  Two specific angles of Haystack are included in the image. More importantly, I checked it all out, and I think I found a match: Now all we need to do is figure out what's in the basement of the restaurant.

Nice! I wonder who else will get that reference.

Oh, I got it right off. As should any true treasure hunter!

one of my favorite places in oregon!

Check this out.  The main focus in the image seems to be the Spanish explorer.  He's up high, on top of the rocks.  Down low and to the right of the image and in the distance is the white glacier next to the tropical tree.  I do believe this works perfectly for the Corbett site when looking at a map.  I hadn't ever done this exactly this way before.  It's simple.  I outlined the site of Mt. St. Helens in red, where I believe is the absolute focus of the line "wingless bird ascending, born of ancient dreams of flight," and I've outliend Mt. Hood in blue, where I think applies to something far in the distance that's white and glacial.  The yellow outline in the map is where the Corbett site is and I've just guestimated where it's position should be on image6 to see if it brings anything into focus.  I don't think it does anything except it is at the position where a bundle of flowers are.

You have made the pictures the same size, the blue is in the same spot, the yellow is roughly in the same spot but the red (which you say is the main focus) is off. If it were the main focus and if this were the way, it would be exact. Once again, it sure seems like a forced fit. You seem so convinced that your locale is correct so you will go out and find anything remotely similar to make it fit. I did this once with the Lion pic which is, no doubt, Charleston. I had everything in that image forced to fit the 4 Corners area.

This isn't a force fit.  Its just an estimation.  I took no measurements. I haven't stretched or rotated the image.  Its just a plain idea.  I'm not going for exactness precision here. Haystack Rock isnt even on the map.  Its farther to the west off the coast.

Looks like "TOY" reversed in the grass. I guess people have considered the USS Constitution cannonballs, if they were there at the time...? Somewhere in sight of these perhaps. " Shell , limestone..." It's still possible that it's not within FOY but somewhere nearby, like the end of Ocean Ave shown here. We could take the foot of the tall tree to refer to the tree in the pic beside this matching part of the coastline (reversed).

I agree with WhiteRabbit the casque could just be nearby the FOY. You could make a case for the Mission Grounds in this image being the smaller rock structure of image 6, and the water area next to the mission grounds being the reflection of the rock in image 6.

I am new to this forum. I am originally from St. Augustine and still live nearby. I am happy to take photos and investigate anything promising. Per Stercox's and the FOY owner's request, I will not dig on their property without permission. But, I am willing and have some ideas about digging in other nearby areas.

It would be great if that tall cross was part of the solution. Does its long shadow ever reach FOY? If you look at Google Earth Historic 31 December 2010, the shadow of the cross is on the beach near Ocean Avenue.

I have always thought I see a crucifix in image 6, but do not recall anyone else mentioning it. Here is a very grainy view of the area I am referring to:

The highway entrance to the Mission Grounds has a landscaped roundabout. If the circle on PDL's flag is sized to match this roundabout, the shape of the flag follows the grounds nicely - - including the arc of the bridge.

I like it. I think the banner could be scaled to go further so that the end is touching the trees SE of the cross. If you zoom in you can see the shadow of a large palm tree there. I looked at lots of photos but there does not seem to be any photos pointing in that direction. You would have to stand behind the cross. There is an amazing fountain in the correct place on the banner too! ... but we may have trouble with the verse.

No doubt the verse brings you to the FOY. But, these two properties almost touch. You can easily see and hear (honking) everything at the FOY from here. Someone also mentioned you can hear boats honking for the Bridge of Lions from this area. Back in 1982 the bridge tender opened the bridge when a boat honked their horn. These days the bridge is opened on an hourly schedule - - with no honking required.

I am not convinced the casque is buried on the Mission Grounds. I am just throwing out the few ideas I have had about this property in case anything sparks a new train of thought from the group. I believe a couple of people have mentioned seeing a mother holding a baby in image 6. I assume they are referring to this part of the image: Here is a picture I took of a stone monument on the Mission Grounds that somewhat matches: There are a lot of these stony monuments on the grounds. Here is a picture of the back on one: Here is another that could be a match: I almost think I see a foot in image 6 in just about the right spot. Here is a grainy picture of the area:

cw0909 wrote:: here seems like an idea if yours dont pan out,if a guy in a maintenance uniform was digging he prob would not be noticed,he would just be another worker dig at williams street and san marco ave hxxp://tinyurl.com/5vkgxbm After reading through all of the posts for image 6 and verse 9, this is the only comment I could find suggesting this location. After several investigative trips to the area, this location is now number one on my list. I am going to post all of my "confirms" for this spot, and would love to have feedback on why I may be wrong or right. I too drank the water at the FOY and it made me a girl. So, I do not want to dig a three foot deep hole unnecessarily.

touche on that. and if its the fort what verse are you pairing it to?

There is absolutely nothing at all, in the verse or the painting that connects to the fort better than it connects to the FOY. It's a stretch to say that anything connects to the fort.

burnstyle wrote:: There is absolutely nothing at all, in the verse or the painting that connects to the fort better than it connects to the FOY. It's a stretch to say that anything connects to the fort. exactly. i agree with that. but why FOY? its the only park anyone is looking at that is a pay to enter tourist attraction on private land.

rlhuguenin wrote:: exactly. i agree with that. but why FOY? its the only park anyone is looking at that is a pay to enter tourist attraction on private land. Maybe BP had a stake in FOY and got a cut of gate fees.

burnstyle wrote:: It's no less likely than him hoping someone had read a passing reference to edward blyden in an obscure companion book to a Smithsonian exhibit from 10 years prior to the puzzle coming out, and being able to connect that with a reference he put in the Charleston verse... This is how Preiss did the puzzles. I know it sounds bizarre at first-glance, but there's overwhelming evidence that he just did super, super obscure stuff: Two-inch sculptures at the base of a light, unknown quotes, reversed letters that aren't actually representing the exact same reversed letters irl. Doesn't make for the most elegant puzzle, but does make for a 40-year head scratcher over which one can totally obsess.

if its at FOY then why hasnt anybody found it? especially after all the attention that EU has brought to the park. ive been to the wiki page and it seems like the park has been hit with numerous dig propositions and illegal digs. if that many people are digging/ trying to dig in the park why arent any of their spots the right spot?

rlhuguenin wrote:: if its at FOY then why hasnt anybody found it? especially after all the attention that EU has brought to the park. ive been to the wiki page and it seems like the park has been hit with numerous dig propositions and illegal digs. if that many people are digging/ trying to dig in the park why arent any of their spots the right spot? Because the park has changed a lot.... and I mean A LOT over the years. Paths have changed, fences moved, attractions come and gone, portions of the coquina wall were redone... so was the entrance and ext. The grass has been cut. The entire north side of the fence (in the parking lot) was changed, then widened, then extended, then shrunk and an apartment building was built on it. fountains have come and gone, walls have come and gone, trees have come and gone. Odds are, to be honest... it won't be found.

rlhuguenin wrote:: if its at FOY then why hasnt anybody found it? especially after all the attention that EU has brought to the park. ive been to the wiki page and it seems like the park has been hit with numerous dig propositions and illegal digs. if that many people are digging/ trying to dig in the park why arent any of their spots the right spot? Because the exact dig locations of these puzzles are ill-defined. Keep in mind this casque is less than 1 cubic foot. The park is 15 acres. You could dig literally 500,000 holes in the park and still have a 1-in-4 chance of not finding it. It's good you read the wiki, but if you really want answers, especially to common sense questions, the Q4T threads for the image and verse are mandatory reading. And they're fun to read, too!

I'm working with another member (who asked me not to share his solve) He found a dig site that is in a spot which hasn't changed much, and you would have been able to wander into at night without breaking any rules or paying any money. It's the most logical place I have heard of so far... and there is only a very slim chance it is a correct solve.

burnstyle wrote:: I'm working with another member (who asked me not to share his solve) He found a dig site that is in a spot which hasn't changed much, and you would have been able to wander into at night without breaking any rules or paying any money. It's the most logical place I have heard of so far... and there is only a very slim chance it is a correct solve. I was going to say, since that new poster has issues with being in the park and paying $ (which are significant issues, I agree), they could find some great spots right around the park, but not in it. Best of both worlds.

drunknerds wrote:: I was going to say, since that new poster has issues with being in the park and paying $ (which are significant issues, I agree), they could find some great spots right around the park, but not in it. Best of both worlds. i could get behind it if someone was looking around the park/outside of it, but i dont think its actually in the park.

drunknerds wrote:: Because the exact dig locations of these puzzles are ill-defined. Keep in mind this casque is less than 1 cubic foot. The park is 15 acres. You could dig literally 500,000 holes in the park and still have a 1-in-4 chance of not finding it. It's good you read the wiki, but if you really want answers, especially to common sense questions, the Q4T threads for the image and verse are mandatory reading. And they're fun to read, too! and i have read through almost everyone of the threads. thats why i havent posted until now, i wanted to actually read through what other people have said and come up with so i dont come on here and sound like an idiot.

The thing you have to remember is that the park has changed so much, that what is technically inside the park now, may have been technically outside of the park in the 80's. And in the 80's there were things you could just walk up to at night, that are now fenced off.

Most of the stuff in red would have been fair game in the 80's

so whats in red used to not be part of the park/not behind a fence or wall?

It was accessible in one way or another, or wasn't part of the park at all.

having said that... bordering the red would have been another coquina wall. So you wouldn't have been able to see into the park either.

bordering the outside or inside of the red? if the wall bordered the inside of the red then BP would have had to climb over a tall coquina wall to bury the casque there. youre obviously familiar with coquina. good luck climbing a coquina wall that you cant see over.

rlhuguenin wrote:: bordering the outside or inside of the red? I dunno, the red isn't exact... and it's made from memory. So, both? Neither? it's hard to actually say. the wall went through the parking lot and stopped at the back, (you can actually still see some of the old wall's supports in the parking lot) the rest would have been dense palmetto woods and chain link fences. I think you are right that he wouldn't have went over the wall, and he also wouldn't have went through the woods.

so would you agree that its more than likely not at FOY? perhaps near it or within view?

burnstyle wrote:: There is absolutely nothing at all, in the verse or the painting that connects to the fort better than it connects to the FOY. It's a stretch to say that anything connects to the fort. So have you found the artillery anchor in the Fountain of Youth Park anywhere? I haven't been able to anywhere other than the fort. You know my solve burnstyle. It is totally connected to the Castillo.

what if its not in st augustine? what if its in another place associated with Juan Ponce De Leon? like Ponce de Leon park in punta gorda in the charlotte port of florida. a site where ponce was believed to have been. or maybe at the ponce de leon lighthouse station south of daytona. also a possible area that ponce actually landed.

rlhuguenin wrote:: what if its not in st augustine? what if its in another place associated with Juan Ponce De Leon? like Ponce de Leon park in punta gorda in the charlotte port of florida. a site where ponce was believed to have been. or maybe at the ponce de leon lighthouse station south of daytona. also a possible area that ponce actually landed. All it takes to convince me of any alternate location is an exact image match or a quote directly lifted from a plaque or something on-site. Never forget that the search box is really good. I just typed in "Punta Gorda" and now I'm up-to-date on the schools of thought around that being a site.

rlhuguenin wrote:: what if its not in st augustine? what if its in another place associated with Juan Ponce De Leon? like Ponce de Leon park in punta gorda in the charlotte port of florida. a site where ponce was believed to have been. or maybe at the ponce de leon lighthouse station south of daytona. also a possible area that ponce actually landed. I'll just leave this here.

I just reread this whole thread, because I was kinda shocked that someone could claim to have read the thread and still have questions like "have you ever thought of anywhere besides FOY?" I have to say: It is the most painful thread to slog through. And it pulls it off with only ~1/3 the posts of other threads. About 1/2 through, buncha people jump in who aren't great at discussion other than, "I see why you dont like my theory BUT if you look at it from my point of view you'll see why I'm right." So, let's all be extra vigilant to make sure we're not simply hand-waving away refutations without at least furthering the discussion, and realize that arguments against a theory, while quite helpful, are not arguments FOR any other theory. I saw those two easy mistakes grind this thread to a halt a lot. A lot of "my theory is right because your theory is wrong!"

Good summary of basic think tanking.

burnstyle wrote:: I'll just leave this here. thats an incredibly far stretch. IMO another example of shoehorning.

"Shoehorning" Is that what this says? These new fonts are getting harder to read as I approach 50.

erexere wrote:: "Shoehorning" Is that what this says? These new fonts are getting harder to read as I approach 50. is that a stab at what i said or the picture? lol, its hard to tell.

I was just kidding. These sorts if stretched or selective letter extractions are always extremely suspect. I'm still not too excited about "Peel" in Image 9.

exactly. here are other "letters" in the grass.

Of course! The statue of Itjkzflkwyvn

drunknerds wrote:: Of course! The statue of Itjkzflkwyvn actually its an old building called Itjtzflk Wyvn

Looks like a clear case of the Polish Celtic language being etched in stone by a Mason of the Seloy Order.

So. The first line of the verse is a phrase plastered all over the fountain of youth. The verse contains two series of words taken from two different info signs in the fountain of youth The verse contains a quote from the Grave of the man who attacked St. Augustine The painting possibly contains a map the man who attacked St. Augustine, made of St. Augustine (though reversed) The painting contains Latitude and Longitude coordinates given to you in an exhibit at the Fountain of youth The painting contains the word St. Augustine (though it's shoehorned in) The litany of the Jewels talks about the fountain of youth The face of the mountain in the painting bears a striking resemblance to the Fountain of Youth's Archological dig map (displayed in the park) And the verse ends with the acrostic 'Seloy' which is the name of the Indian village the Fountain of youth is built on top of. But you're right... It's probably in Daytona.

MrBackstop wrote:: So have you found the artillery anchor in the Fountain of Youth Park anywhere? I haven't been able to anywhere other than the fort. You know my solve burnstyle. It is totally connected to the Castillo. That is not an artillery anchor, its the base of a lamp post.

im not buying the coordinates thing. ponce de leon didnt think he was in key west when he landed in st augustine. when they landed in st augustine they thought they were a bit more north than they actually were.

LOL define in person![/quote] I wear a uniform and ...

MERLIN wrote:: I'll only go if Spiritr pops out of a cake! I think Spiritr has moved on to bigger and better things. You have to pay for your stripper now!

WilliamTater wrote:: Just another way of looking at another clue... Does it matter that this has been moved a couple times since the 80's? Because its been moved a couple times since the 80's. It used to be set in the middle of a concrete path.

burnstyle, your knowledge is the key to solving the puzzle. Please share.

Unknown: Yes exactly, thats what I said, thanks for agreeing with me. It might be what you meant Matt, but it's hardly what you said. Be that as it may, if that is what you are saying now, fine. We'll go with that. Now, about the ensuing 15 years...

WilliamTater wrote:: Lol..Matt..we talked two days ago..in person! LOL define in person![/quote] I wear a uniform and ...[/quote] still blank, we spoke Woednesday in person you wear a uniform in Sacramento...

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Now, about the ensuing 15 years... Yes? what about them?

in 82 the sundial was set in concrete in the middle of the walkway between the fountain house and the 3d globe. The zodiac sundial was by the current gift shop.

Unknown: Yes? what about them? Doesn't seem to me that much has changed. Oh well, it's a puzzle.

burnstyle wrote:: in 82 the sundial was set in concrete in the middle of the walkway between the fountain house and the 3d globe. The zodiac sundial was by the current gift shop. Most if not all Northern sundials all point towards true north...so when BP visited the park in 82 it might be important to know where the sundial was placed and of course ..facing.

maltedfalcon wrote:: LOL define in person! I wear a uniform and ...[/quote] still blank, we spoke Woednesday in person you wear a uniform in Sacramento...[/quote] Again still a blank - so you are in Sacramento but you are going after the St Augustine casque...why dont you PM me

dear Maltedfalcon...

ooooohhhh your the server lady at panda express!

You aught to be a detective...wow.

jesus, you guys are like 13 year old's on AIM in 1998... WT: I set beside you in History class!!! MF: Cindy? WT: No Silly, to the left! MF: Jerry? WT: WHY DONT YOU REMEMBER ME I LOVE YOU!!!

That explains the parked car next to Matt's house.

I HAVE ABSOLUTELY IDENTIFIED THE TREE CORRECTLY BECAUSE BP'S INITIALS ARE ON THE TREE IN THE PAINTING..THAT TREE NEXT TO THE PLANETARIUM IS THE TREE. PERIOD.

Are you sure that's not a Chi Rho? Maybe the crusaders did it.

Hopping on a flight Wednesday heading to St. Augustine to the FOY. Will spend three days examining tree signs and markings. Taking pics. Might give the owner a call and take him to lunch.

Hope he eats panda meat!

Choice wrote:: Hope he eats panda meat! Wow..for a little troll wanting free beer you certainly will end up thirsty.

WilliamTater wrote:: ...for a little troll ... Said the stalker!

Choice wrote:: Said the stalker! You are close. Go to the book exchange section and view Oracular Yahweh...it might be the confession of a serial stalker..i mean killer.

This tree is long gone at the FOY planetarium.

That whole area beside the planetarium was dug to 2 1/2 feet over several days by Stercox and Fraiser many years ago.

burnstyle wrote:: That whole area beside the planetarium was dug to 2 1/2 feet over several days by Stercox and Fraiser many years ago. GREAT! I hope someone has made a list of all the places dug, so by process of elimination i can win the prize!

Unknown: I hope someone has made a list of all the places dug, so by process of elimination i can win the prize There are 9.4* million square miles of land in North America. If an empty hole is your sole criterion, then about .0000001* percent of the land mass has been eliminated so far. * all numbers approximated

There is a huge possibility BP buried the casque here. there was an absolute reason the tree did not have a shadow in the water.

wasnt that pond added later?

Unknown: Hopping on a flight Wednesday heading to St. Augustine to the FOY. Safe travels. The best of luck to you as well.

I can't figure out the exactness of this marking on a tree at the FOY..

Here's the negative..

Damn, you should have taken better pictures or invested in a new camera instead of hoping on that flight to Florida.

I believe it might mean 36 paces which is approximately 90 feet. There seems to be an exclamation point there also. As I have said before, it wouldn't be surprising if BP marked a tree or two. My own observances indicate he did, and I took many more photos. The photo I posted is one that I downloaded from a page here at Q4T. The tree in question IS in the painting. But 12 years have passed and when I examined the living tree...it has weathered.

An author and arborist...awe-inspiring.

I believe this was taken in 2007.

WilliamTater wrote:: I believe this was taken in 2007. A Treasure's Trove is over though.

GoldenMartyr wrote:: A Treasure's Trove is over though. The more you post..the more everyone sees how small and vulnerable you are. When a child you behaved as a child. but now it is time to put your childhood away and become a man. Treasure Trove was your favorite childhood book mommy read to you. Let it go. Stop living in your fantasy world. Byron Priess is an adult book for grown ups. Maybe you are not ready to really grasp the complexities of mature books quite yet. In time you may or may not understand your weaknesses, your inherent inefficiencies that control your childish impulses. Some believe time heals all wounds, goldenmartyr. i mean with a name like Martyr? it is all pretty cut and dried, don't you think? It is best you leave complex treasure hunting to adults. Your time may or may not come some day. People who believe they are persecuted (like you) tend to have warped views on reality necessitating scheduled medication not dissimilar to the program CHOICE is on. I sense you both might even be seeing the same professional. (lol) So, let me be clear. This site is past its prime. The residual activity is nothing more than an endless boring comedy routine of wannabe intellectuals. NOT A SINGLE PUZZLE HAS BEEN SOLVED IN 16 FRICKIN YEARS...so much for the collective genius of a room full of clowns.

WilliamTater wrote:: People who believe they are persecuted (like you) tend to have warped views on reality necessitating scheduled medication not dissimilar to the program CHOICE is on Hold on a minute, let’s not get too carried away here. There is no way that Choice is on medication or seeks help of any kind...

Okay...I surrender...you all win.

That's right. Like Captain Kirk said: I NEED MY PAIN. Damn it, Bones , you're a doctor. You know that pain and guilt can't be taken away with a wave of a magic wand. They're the things we carry with us, the things that make us who we are. If we lose them, we lose ourselves.

I was confused by your response Tater. ....but using your methods, now I understand.

ATT was no childs game. It was fun and required some keen observation to work the puzzles and got people risking life and limb cavity searching suspicious trees nationwide. Good times. What are the medicinal requirements for the Secret these days?

erexere wrote:: ATT was no childs game. It was fun and required some keen observation to work the puzzles and got people risking life and limb cavity searching suspicious trees nationwide. Good times. What are the medicinal requirements for the Secret these days? Just left my AA meeting and stopped by the liquor store for a bottle of Johnny Walker Blue Label...however I suggest my cohorts in delusion here at Q4T abstain from medicin al spirits and in stead use yoga and meditation as a means to alleviate duress, angst, and frustration. Have a nice day

WilliamTater wrote:: ...so much for the collective genius of a room full of clowns. Zossima what's your deal? I told you before. Just don't react. Work on the puzzle however you want, and if people don't like it they'll make their jokes, and we'll all laugh, but it doesn't matter! Certainly doesn't stop Choice from dripping diarrhea all over this board and taking tons of guff for it. But you know what? Every now and then there's a kernel of corn in that 'rhea, and we all harvest it and share it amongst ourselves and live to hunt another day. Choice. Don't drag Stimpy down to his level!

Maybe the 36 is inches or one yard and the r is for right. X marks the spot.

WilliamTater wrote:: Maybe the 36 is inches or one yard and the r is for right. X marks the spot. I will say—having tried digging that close to a tree, it’s nearly impossible. Roots are amazing beasts.

phrabbott wrote:: ...dripping diarrhea... a kernel of corn in that 'rhea... That explains the "poopy doo doo head" title! Gross... corn!

Choice wrote:: That explains the "poopy doo doo head" title! Nah, that’s just the “p” in phrabbott. Birth name.

I wonder if BP had any metal of any kind in those casques? There are newer MDs available that can detect very small metal fragments up to five feet. It seems feasible if even a tiny metal pin were somehow involved in the matrix of the casque that using a high tech MD would be very advantageous. Since i am independently wealthy and have more free time than any Californian should have...

Tiny piece of metal, like a small finishing nail or thick paperclip wire, used to hold the clay together for the key inside the casque.

erexere wrote:: Tiny piece of metal, like a small finishing nail or thick paperclip wire, used to hold the clay together for the key inside the casque. i've added you to Choice and Martyr as a friend here..not sure if anyone knows. but I respect high intellect and even crazy people are smart; not that you are crazy, just some of the others. My goal is to find the F OY casque.. if you think about it...so much has been eliminated already..how hard can it be to follow the mind of Byron Priess? There is far too much reading into the puzzles here...BP wanted people to find these things..anyway..thanks for the tree digging comment..I couldn't agree more. I HATE to dig. Let's keep this dialogue going and maybe something good might suddenly come of it.

Dinner and bottomless beer on you, the independently wealthy one. . o O ( mmmm... panda meat n taters ... aaaaggghhhh )

Choice has responded quite predictably. Trust is a huge issue and he often pushes the boundaries to the extreme when emotionally charged. Just look how many posts he has added in the last 24 hours. This is a common measurable response he exhibits when his emotional bunker is threatened. Behind his anything goes rhetorical posturing is a sensitive caring intelligent mind. He, again, has trust issues. He never wants to appear weak and vulnerable, and yet, his verbal striking out de-masks his true nature. I hope he will not close the door I have opened for him. I could use a great mind to assist me in my goal of finding the FOY casque.

Behind the Globe building on the back there once was this object. It no longer appears there...but it IS in the painting and I believe it is a huge clue to which tree teh casque is buried.

I think you're as confused as your ideas are. You want a friend go to Tender. You make a huge assumption that I'm so low of self-confidence that I give a damn what anyone thinks about my methods or ideas. I just put them out there for public domain; useful or not. Stop with psycho analysis. You sound like a dumbass; not the whiskey!

Choice wrote:: I think you're as confused as your ideas are. You want a friend go to Tender. You make a huge assumption that I'm so low of self-confidence that I give a damn what anyone thinks about my methods or ideas. I just put them out there for public domain; useful or not. Stop with psycho analysis. You sound like a dumbass; not the whiskey! 20%! Very good grasshopper! I mean expressing your ...feelings! A good first step. Now, we must address that other issue you think no one can detect. The one that is the centerpiece of your very existence. But you say why? Well in all fairness you have a nasty habit of spitting venom everywhere. Certainly you'd expect someone sometime to respond accordingly? How do YOU think YOU sound? Once the bell is rung...you can't bring back the ring. You are not invisible as you so think. Now, why don't we just focus on solving puzzles etc and cease and desist with the forked tongue? I am sincerely trying to find answers and look at this FOY problem with new eyes. i intend on getting results. If you desire to continue to post in my threads your sideshow circus routines, then please I ask, just go. Otherwise i might have to resort to addressing your..well..you know.

You're tedious. Mariska hargitay loathe guru

Namaste..

Most artists place an importance on the perspective incorporated within the painting. The artwork for The Secret places all the casques in each picture. Image 6 has letters in the middle of the painting, center stage if you will, and they are as follows here. Their numerical value relative to the alphabet is 8 2 4. I believe this is significant because of the apparent 2/4 noted by many in the artwork.

WilliamTater wrote:: Behind the Globe building on the back there once was this object. It no longer appears there...but it IS in the painting and I believe it is a huge clue to which tree teh casque is buried. That is a lamp. I think the blacksmith makes them. I dont know how old they are, but they are all over the park.

I find it perplexing that someone would think this tree is where the FOY casque is buried?

Here is the actual letters that may or may not indicate 8 2 4.

burnstyle wrote:: That is a lamp. I think the blacksmith makes them. I dont know how old they are, but they are all over the park. Im not sure I see it. I've viewed yuor FOY walk through on youtube several times and have been to the park a gfew times and have never seen one? Maybe you could post a picture here? Thanks.

Look harder when you go back. they are all over. wherever there is dark, there is lamp.

Not seeing it burnstyle. The photo is more indicative of a terra cotta planter but regardless i have reasons to believe the casque is buried behind the globe building. I do believe the paintings continue where the verse' let off. I also believe the artist (at least on the FOY painting) repainted it several times with different clues. I found it interesting how the painting almost has been grey-washed. I think it originally was painted in colors.many artist sketch and then change and adapt from their original concept. I bet if you asked our artist he'd agree. Happy Hunting

Unknown: many artist sketch and then change and adapt from their original concept. No doubt. Which explains why so many people are keen to see the original paintings. It's cheating, but only just a little.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: No doubt. Which explains why so many people are keen to see the original paintings. It's cheating, but only just a little. It hasn't helped anyone who has seen the originals at all. So far the only people I know who have seen them are Renner and gates. Both came up empty handed. Gates said they looked exactly like the book. But to be fair I doubt either of them would know what to look for as far as differences are concerned. Aside from the random little piece of mtl kit posted I mean. And palencar doesnt paint in a way which would allow anyone to see something under the paint, or in multiple layers or whatever.... without physically x-raying his paintings. He DOES however, paint in a way which will allow you to see whatever you want to see, wherever you want to see it, if you try hard enough.

If there was only a place that the photos of the original paintings could be uploaded and shared with everyone.....

Unknown: Aside from the random little piece of mtl kit posted I mean. Wait. What?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Wait. What? Back in June, Kit Palencar posted on FaceBook a photo he took of a close up of a small section of the original Montreal painting. See below. Probably the thing that most people remarked about it was how in the book printing, the color of the 'gold square' was very mustard-y when compared to the original - while here quite clearly 'gold' colored. And the original Fleur-de-lis, known since EXU of course.

Unknown: Back in June, Kit Palencar posted on FaceBook... Thanks Kang. Just to be clear, and only speaking for myself, I really don't mind the private forums. I get that many people have found the lack of active moderation on this forum a deal breaker, and have sought other places to work the puzzle. What I do mind is the seemingly cavalier attitude toward information that should not be part of the hunt. The fact that it's insider information, and the fact that it's being shared privately is disturbing to those of us who continue to believe that this puzzle can still be solved fairly. And I find no consolation in the assurance by some that the information is really not helping at all. I'll get off my soapbox now, and with GM's help, back onto my cross.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: Thanks Kang. Just to be clear, and only speaking for myself, I really don't mind the private forums. I get that many people have found the lack of active moderation on this forum a deal breaker, and have sought other places to work the puzzle. What I do mind is the seemingly cavalier attitude toward information that should not be part of the hunt. The fact that it's insider information, and the fact that it's being shared privately is disturbing to those of us who continue to believe that this puzzle can still be solved fairly. And I find no consolation in the assurance by some that the information is really not helping at all. I'll get off my soapbox now, and with GM's help, back onto my cross. It wasn't really shared privately - I saw this in one of the many pretty much public secret related facebook groups where as far as I know there is no restriction on joining. That said, Facebook sucks in general and for sharing information like this, and this post of info is one of the few things I've seen shared that have any value at all

The other thing is, we should probably create our own real wiki where we can aggregate data or at least photos as this forum isn't great for that either and the wiki is restricted to editing.

dosethree wrote:: The other thing is, we should probably create our own real wiki where we can aggregate data or at least photos as this forum isn't great for that either and the wiki is restricted to editing. Ill donate hosting and a domain if anyone wants to take on this task.

burnstyle wrote:: Ill donate hosting and a domain if anyone wants to take on this task. Sounds like a big team effort would be needed to pull that off. I would help as much as I can, if needed.

burnstyle wrote:: Ill donate hosting and a domain if anyone wants to take on this task. Wow. This sounds great. You guys could hold secret meetings, have secret handshakes, invent secret codes to communicate, hold initiation rituals, and raise cash by selling baked goods in from of thrift shops on the weekends! But your secret society needs a great name..something that symbolized greatness of intellect..how about: THE CRACKERJACK CODE BREAKERS INTERNATIONAL! And each new member gets a genuine plastic CCBI decoding ring with verified membership payment.

WilliamTater wrote:: Wow. This sounds great. You guys could hold secret meetings, have secret handshakes, invent secret codes to communicate, hold initiation rituals, and raise cash by selling baked goods in from of thrift shops on the weekends! But your secret society needs a great name..something that symbolized greatness of intellect..how about: THE CRACKERJACK CODE BREAKERS INTERNATIONAL! And each new member gets a genuine plastic CCBI decoding ring with verified membership payment. Are you ok?

Rule number one since the dawn of time. Don't feed the trolls.

WilliamTater wrote:: Wow. This sounds great. You guys could hold secret meetings, have secret handshakes, invent secret codes to communicate, hold initiation rituals, and raise cash by selling baked goods in from of thrift shops on the weekends! But your secret society needs a great name..something that symbolized greatness of intellect..how about: THE CRACKERJACK CODE BREAKERS INTERNATIONAL! And each new member gets a genuine plastic CCBI decoding ring with verified membership payment. we prefer 'Shhh the Secret Podcast'. Thanks.

burnstyle wrote:: we prefer 'Shhh the Secret Podcast'. Thanks. Wait, this is way to accurate, somebody must be violating their sacred oath of secrecy!

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: and with GM's help, back onto my cross. Wait, I thought you were playing the role of Pilate....

Unknown: I thought you were playing the role of Pilate.... That's 421.

Well, I probably shouldn't show you this but since the cat is out of the bag.... Link to large image : https://i.imgur.com/foNw7nE.jpg Another Link: https://www.latlmes.com/arts/return-of-the-golden-age-of-comics-1

maltedfalcon wrote:: Well, I probably shouldn't show you this but since the cat is out of the bag.... Link to large image : https://i.imgur.com/foNw7nE.jpg Another Link: https://www.latlmes.com/arts/return-of-the-golden-age-of-comics-1 Good one! I salute you, sir. https://youtu.be/iMU-tCiWncw

I found the numbers 1838 hidden in the painting The year Indian King Osceola died. Also found an earlier version where two trees are reaching towards each other. I sense BP utilized flower boxes etc. So...is it a huge leap to think he buried the casque here?

Here's the 1838 on a picket fence.

WilliamTater wrote:: I found the numbers 1838 hidden in the painting Mark, No you didn't, you found numbers and or shapes that your software artificially introduced into the image. a space less than 3 mm x 1 mm which is really not enough space to pull out anything more than 15 halftone dots. when you blew up the image your software needed to fill in the spaces, so basically it just made stuff up...

Choice has admittedly pissed of a lot of people here, but he has never... not once, shown me any sort of hostility, or insulted me in any way. I have no reason to think he would start now. It takes a hell of a lot to irritate me. But you have. Congratulations.

burnstyle wrote:: Choice has admittedly pissed of a lot of people here, but he has never... not once, shown me any sort of hostility, or insulted me in any way. I have no reason to think he would start now. It takes a hell of a lot to irritate me. But you have. Congratulations. I have no reason to. You've always been civil. I don't know what the deal is with that guy, trying to cause conflict by making things up. This site is not monetized since you don't see any advertisement. So any additional traffic to the site will only increase owner's server storage cost; and he's not accepting new users per his announcement. So none of this makes sense.

WilliamTater wrote:: Postby Hirudiniforme » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:50 pm MaltedFalcon wrote: The authors of the book were Sean Kelly<snip> This by far surpasses the stupidest thing I have read on this forum. An outright lie by a "lt"... isn't the first, won't be the last. <snip> Hirudiniforme<snip> Oh ok, It took me a bit to understand your convulted logic, you are saying I am liar, because 421 said I lied. I get it... but you missed, that was my opinion and still is my opinion - so nope sorry, not a lie.... 421s opinion aside... Here are some straight up lies for you though... WilliamTater » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:21 am --Been using a program not dissimilar from LiDAR to peel away the layers of paint. i guess the artist repainted at least a few times, I even saw BP initial indications for changes. WilliamTater » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:00 pm Matt, we've known each other for years. You can do better. Lol..Matt..we talked two days ago..in person! Mark - you are a pathological liar and a troll.

He has a history full of lies here. Under different names and personas. He even claimed to be a Buddhist then posted violent and offensive comments under C.Zossima, the self-published author! He's sore that I'm not shy to call him on his hypocrisy and madness. So this is his convoluted way of getting back at me and as usual with the Megamind's plans they blowup on his face! I think we should just put this unpleasantness behind us and move on.

Choice wrote:: I think we should just put this unpleasantness behind us and move on. Good Plan!

A while back I emailed Mark and offered to take over the financial burden of q4t, either by paying his hosting or hosting it myself. I asked (or offered or whatever) to take myself completely out of it (because I would be admittedly biased) and asked to institute impartial moderators. People like Catherwood, or whiterabbit, forest, or egbert. Mark declined the offer. I wish he hadn't. Q4T could really benefit from people like them moderating it. People who love the hunt, but haven't chosen a side so they wouldn't, and couldn't be accused of trying to lord over the place. or turn it into a new wiki. People who care enough about the community to step in when needed and make a level headed group based decision about ongoing problems. Thats something this place desperately needs. The mass exodus of members is still happening, and will continue. While some people may talk publicly about how they don't care... deep down we all know its a bad thing. Deep down we all know Q4T won't last much longer without someone stepping in. I'd hate to see Marks warning come true. I'd hate to wake up one day and q4t is just gone.

burnstyle wrote:: A while back I emailed Mark and offered to take over the financial burden of q4t, either by paying his hosting or hosting it myself. I asked (or offered or whatever) to take myself completely out of it (because I would be admittedly biased) and asked to institute impartial moderators. People like Catherwood, or whiterabbit, forest, or egbert. Mark declined the offer. I wish he hadn't. Q4T could really benefit from people like them moderating it. People who love the hunt, but haven't chosen a side so they wouldn't, and couldn't be accused of trying to lord over the place. or turn it into a new wiki. People who care enough about the community to step in when needed and make a level headed group based decision about ongoing problems. Thats something this place desperately needs. The mass exodus of members is still happening, and will continue. While some people may talk publicly about how they don't care... deep down we all know its a bad thing. Deep down we all know Q4T won't last much longer without someone stepping in. I'd hate to see Marks warning come true. I'd hate to wake up one day and q4t is just gone. First, why would Mark shut down the whole site? He could just delete "The Secret" threads. Second, why don't you do it? You have the means and the hosting space. Personally, I would charge a nominal fee, but enable uploads of images and video up to a limit. Maybe $10 a year. This is a huge deterant to random trolls. If you set a limit to the size of 10Mb for files, the users would be responsible for hosting large files. Or discussed with you first. I read a while back that you could siphon off the threads, or possibly shadow host them, so what little historical info is left after the exodus can be preserved. Or, you could just ask Mark if you can shift the threads to your new site. As for the riff-raff on here, it seems that Mark takes a blunt force approach to banning. Enough people complain and poof, they are gone. I think with active moderating, this can all be nipped in the bud. Make it based on flagging and reporting. Cue the bitching that free speech is being impinged, but if a particular post or user is being flagged repeatedly, then they deserve to be banned. I think you might be able to get some of the old timers to come back. Valuable people, like wilhouse, blighted_forest, even Catherwood (and so many others) who I haven't seen much of lately. This site has become a travesty and it is just plain sad that so much info has been lost.

gManTexas wrote:: Second, why don't you do it? You have the means and the hosting space. Personally, I would charge a nominal fee, but enable uploads of images and video up to a limit. Maybe $10 a year. This is a huge deterant to random trolls. If you set a limit to the size of 10Mb for files, the users would be responsible for hosting large files. Or discussed with you first. I read a while back that you could siphon off the threads, or possibly shadow host them, so what little historical info is left after the exodus can be preserved. Or, you could just ask Mark if you can shift the threads to your new site. I'm working on something... but I don't know if I can get it to work yet. The tricky part is getting all the old valuable info off q4t in an easily digestible and organizable way. Mark making the secret threat publicly viewable made that effort a little easier... but not by much. I did ask for an archive once, so that I could import it into another phpbb install, but that was turned down too. I think because an archive would include users PM's and registration info, which I can understand him not wanting to give out. and honestly I dont know if I have the means. Remember I live on a public servants income. Donations and patreon keep 12treasures running, and I still come out of pocket for that. Plus going around digging crap for everyone... meeting random people for dinner and beer or whatever. It gets expensive. I already catch hell from people for taking donations... imagine if I charged people to access old q4t stuff. It would get crazy.

burnstyle wrote:: I'm working on something... but I don't know if I can get it to work yet. The tricky part is getting all the old valuable info off q4t in an easily digestible and organizable way. Mark making the secret threat publicly viewable made that effort a little easier... but not by much. I did ask for an archive once, so that I could import it into another phpbb install, but that was turned down too. I think because an archive would include users PM's and registration info, which I can understand him not wanting to give out. and honestly I dont know if I have the means. Remember I live on a public servants income. Donations and patreon keept 12treasures running, and I still come out of pocket for that. Plus going around digging crap for everyone... meeting random people for dinner and beer or whatever. It gets expensive. I already catch hell from people for taking donations... imagine if I charged people to access old q4t stuff. It would get crazy. I totally get it. However, if the info is valuable then people will pay. Personally, if I knew that I could get info that was pertinent and searchable, I would pay for that...if I was totally into it. This is basically what separates the posers from the real hunters. We would lose the BS artists and some poeple would feel more invested in the hunt.

So basically back to same-minded same-old failed tactics that haven't resulted anything fruitful for decades while most sites are being redone, paved or bulldozed. Meanwhile members like Gman, BINGO, NYC and others refuse to hear new ideas or outright reject ideas, as simple as substituting south for down. So I think this forum will do best if the old failures move to private setting and allow free flow of thought and take their negativity with them. And please charge them $10 for your troubles!

Choice wrote:: So basically back to same-minded same-old failed tactics that haven't resulted anything fruitful for decades while most sites are being redone, paved or bulldozed. Meanwhile members like Gman, BINGO, NYC and others refuse to hear new ideas or outright reject ideas, as simple as substituting south for down. So I think this forum will do best if the old failures move to private setting and allow free flow of thought and take their negativity with them. And please charge them $10 for your troubles! Most people dismiss this argument, or just ignore it... and don't really give a reason for why they dismiss it. Which is unfair. It's an invalid argument. Most members who have been around for any length of time know that what was holding people back from finding anything for 40+ years is not because the tactics were wrong... its that no one was digging the solutions they came up with. Honestly most of the old solutions were probably correct, but we will never know on some of them, because like you said, sites change and get paved over. Houston is probably lost because it took to long for someone to dig. New York is the same way. Probably St Augustine too. who knows. There is plenty in the book to figure out, there are still subtleties, twists, and likely major clues in the book that need to be discovered. But throwing everything that's been done out the window because a hundred people who have never dug a hole haven't found a casque seems pointless. Take away the old guard vs. new guard mentality and look back at posts from 2004.... until about 2012. The attitude of hunters was different. In the houston thread you can see egbert, catherwood, falcon, wilhouse, fox, johann, all working together, coming up with ideas and working through them... discarding ideas that didnt work. generally just helping one another. Without any desire to be famous or whatever... just happily working as a team to solve a puzzle. It had been over 20 years since the casques were buried, they were all at a disadvantage, but they still trodded along and as a team came up with some of the most groundbreaking solutions this puzzle will ever have. the verse image pairings, the coordinates, the parks.... that was all found in the span of a year or two because everyone worked together. Contrast that with the forum today. I mean, you are right... new ideas will help. new people will help. But do you honestly think the methods that are being used right now... the type of communication...The Josh Cornells and the Taters... the photoshop micro image scans... do you honestly think it's helping anything? Do you think anyone is working towards a goal? Because it seems to me like everyone is trying to one up everyone else, or prove they are smarter.... i dont know. I have to agree with a sentiment that 421 and ren have put out there. Some people want to be king of the secret, and the only way they can get to the top is to tear everyone else down. It doesn't help. Taking away some of the infighting might though.

Choice wrote:: So basically back to same-minded same-old failed tactics that haven't resulted anything fruitful for decades while most sites are being redone, paved or bulldozed. Meanwhile members like Gman, BINGO, NYC and others refuse to hear new ideas or outright reject ideas, as simple as substituting south for down. So I think this forum will do best if the old failures move to private setting and allow free flow of thought and take their negativity with them. And please charge them $10 for your troubles! Don’t forget, the reptilian brain guy with small hands that goes by the username Bingo, is the same person who will bend over backwards for people searching in Boston. I have met people in person, given them rides, loaned them tools, offered any help that I can and ask nothing in return. All the while, not believing in hardly any of the theories that those people are working on. I go out in Boston and take pictures, probe areas of interest and even dig holes. All for people who can’t make it to Boston themselves and I ask nothing in return. All the while, not totally believing in the theories that those people are working on. I try my best to call shit when I see shit written on this board. It’s not personal and it’s not meant to be vicious. These are the things that I bring to the hunt specifically in Boston. In my opinion, actions speak louder than words. Just what exactly have you accomplished here other than aggravating almost everyone at some point and flooding the board with posts and theories that you expect others to vet?

Choice wrote:: So basically back to same-minded same-old failed tactics that haven't resulted anything fruitful for decades while most sites are being redone, paved or bulldozed. Meanwhile members like Gman, BINGO, NYC and others refuse to hear new ideas or outright reject ideas, as simple as substituting south for down. So I think this forum will do best if the old failures move to private setting and allow free flow of thought and take their negativity with them. And please charge them $10 for your troubles! Ha! Says the tool who is afraid of tools. The goal here is not to be an armchair Google Earth jockey or a photoshop expert, it is to go on site and dig. Observe what is there. Not to mention that you sir, are abrasive and highly defensive. If you would come out of your mom's basement once in a while and actually interact with people, you might have a different perspective.

Interesting. Anyone for toast coffee and a civil discourse?

burnstyle wrote:: Most people dismiss this argument, or just ignore it... and don't really give a reason for why they dismiss it. Which is unfair. It's an invalid argument. Most members who have been around for any length of time know that what was holding people back from finding anything for 40+ years is not because the tactics were wrong... its that no one was digging the solutions they came up with. Honestly most of the old solutions were probably correct, but we will never know on some of them, because like you said, sites change and get paved over. Houston is probably lost because it took to long for someone to dig. New York is the same way. Probably St Augustine too. who knows. There is plenty in the book to figure out, there are still subtleties, twists, and likely major clues in the book that need to be discovered. But throwing everything that's been done out the window because a hundred people who have never dug a hole haven't found a casque seems pointless. Take away the old guard vs. new guard mentality and look back at posts from 2004.... until about 2012. The attitude of hunters was different. In the houston thread you can see egbert, catherwood, falcon, wilhouse, fox, johann, all working together, coming up with ideas and working through them... discarding ideas that didnt work. generally just helping one another. Without any desire to be famous or whatever... just happily working as a team to solve a puzzle. It had been over 20 years since the casques were buried, they were all at a disadvantage, but they still trodded along and as a team came up with some of the most groundbreaking solutions this puzzle will ever have. the verse image pairings, the coordinates, the parks.... that was all found in the span of a year or two because everyone worked together. Contrast that with the forum today. I mean, you are right... new ideas will help. new people will help. But do you honestly think the methods that are being used right now... the type of communication...The Josh Cornells and the Taters... the photoshop micro image scans... do you honestly think it's helping anything? Do you think anyone is working towards a goal? Because it seems to me like everyone is trying to one up everyone else, or prove they are smarter.... i dont know. I have to agree with a sentiment that 421 and ren have put out there. Some people want to be king of the secret, and the only way they can get to the top is to tear everyone else down. It doesn't help. Taking away some of the infighting might though. I couldn't agree more, Burn! I arrived late in the hunt and when I joined Q4T it was very hostile only because of one or two members. Just like anything else, a few negatives outweigh all the positive that the community has produced. I found myself hooked to the site but for all the wrong reasons. Trying to prove someone wrong and out them in public becomes as much as a priority as the task at hand, or more so. I look back at my earlier posts and regret having engaged in such conversations. I agree with Gman that the bulk of the information that will be lost the day the site is deleted will be a super shame. I do think we need active moderators that are not bias to anyone with some ground rules that can keep the forum and it's users on track. Obviously some people will have a problem with this, since they think there is a big conspiracy going on to keep them silent or suppress information. The alternative is to continue the site as is until the plug is pulled. Beyond the moderators, we all need to show some personal responsibility and not engage in these internet fights and show some restraint and maturity. The block button is an amazingly useful and under rated tool in this site. I also agree that there are good solves posted here for all to see and probably a few actual solves that have not been proven true. I don't believe that everyone's motivation is to find a casque here. Proof would be those post and threads made by people to get hits simple attention ploys. More proof, as stated above, is that very few people use their theories to do actual digs/probes. More so, the majority of the community hold on to great ideas because the seem to want the sole credit, if proven correct. The ongoing fantasy of proving everyone wrong seems to trump the possibility of solving the puzzle. One would think this casque is worth millions! This is still the best resource we have for the puzzles. Don't believe me, check out a FB group on the Secret! Yikes

WilliamTater wrote:: Interesting. Anyone for toast coffee and a civil discourse? The time for coffee a s toast is long over. It's like 300 around here. If you have any arms or legs left by the end of the day, we want to hear about the hole you are going to dig tomorrow. The Oracle has fated that a box will be found before the next harvest. Keep moving forward. And yeah, great post from burnstyle. Being overly dismissive or entering the game with the wrong goal is where most fail. If we do a better job communicating with each other, theres less getting in the way of our next successful recovery.

Unknown: I have made a list of 13 issues that I will be addressing when i return to FOY this fall or winter. I have typed up an agreement to offer the FOY owners to allow me to "poke around" a little. Cash is no obstacle. Each issue I will address in a methodical well presented plan. Wining and dining will not be out of question either. Everything is negotiable. I might even convince him to allow me to access that tree burnstyle has circled. (wouldn't that be something) Like I've said before, I will find this casque. This sounds like a reasonable plan to me. The best of luck to you.

I still dont know what tree he is talking about. I think it's one tjgrey sent me like four years ago. He circled it to point out a tree that was removed when they built a storage shed. Who knows.

erexere wrote:: The time for coffee a s toast is long over. It's like 300 around here. If you have any arms or legs left by the end of the day, we want to hear about the hole you are going to dig tomorrow. The Oracle has fated that a box will be found before the next harvest. Keep moving forward. And yeah, great post from burnstyle. Being overly dismissive or entering the game with the wrong goal is where most fail. If we do a better job communicating with each other, theres less getting in the way of our next successful recovery. Finally someone with brains and common sense! Enough armchair pontificating! Time to dig dig dig!

Unknown: I still dont know what tree he is talking about. So what? He's not asking for your help, is he?

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: So what? He's not asking for your help, is he? Yeah he was. But couldn't tell me what tree he was talking about. He just kept saying "The one you circled" Though... he also thought I was JM... so maybe it was something JM posted... I dunno.

WilliamTater wrote:: Time to dig dig dig! Make sure you let us know how this goes. Right now, you seem to be warming the bench, telling everybody how big of a superstar you will be when you get into the game. Just get into the game, champ.

Unknown: Yeah he was. Unknown: William Tater wrote: burnstyle, your knowledge is the key to solving the puzzle. Please share. On this forum? I've read through all his posts, and the closest I could come is this, which he posted over a month ago: Look, the OP articulated a plan to try and work with the owner of FoY in an attempt to recover the St. Augustine casque. Whether you or anyone else agrees with his solve or his plan seems to me to be besides the point. On its face, it should certainly not be the reason for derision or worse, finger pointing. Not if you are really interested in keeping things civil. My two cents.

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: My two cents. I'd just love to hear about the results once the plan is executed. This goes for everybody. So many people show up, tell us how they are the man with the master plan, then disappear when things go south. We're all striking out. The real question is who is improving their swing....

GoldenMartyr wrote:: I'd just love to hear about the results once the plan is executed. This goes for everybody. So many people show up, tell us how they are the man with the master plan, then disappear when things go south. We're all striking out. The real question is who is improving their swing.... Soon i will be on my 14th strike, speaking of

Unknown: I'd just love to hear about the results once the plan is executed. I'd just like to know that the plan was executed. The results will speak for themselves. That's why I encourage the plan (as long as it's responsible), even when I personally don't think it has a chance in hell of succeeding. I mean, blind squirrel, am I right?

strike13 wrote:: Soon i will be on my 14th strike, speaking of My goodness, trying to carry on the curse of the Bambino!

Erpobdelliforme wrote:: On this forum? I've read through all his posts, and the closest I could come is this, which he posted over a month ago: Look, the OP articulated a plan to try and work with the owner of FoY in an attempt to recover the St. Augustine casque. Whether you or anyone else agrees with his solve or his plan seems to me to be besides the point. On its face, it should certainly not be the reason for derision or worse, finger pointing. Not if you are really interested in keeping things civil. My two cents. No via pm and email. But thank you for your interest.

Let me get this straight… Problem 1: A posts something. X, Y, and Z don't like A's posts, and respond and cluster up the forum. X, Y, and Z say there is a problem where people get mad and cluster up the forum. X, Y, and Z propose banning A as a solution to a problem they created. Problem 2: A through W discuss and post information freely. X, Y, and Z don’t like some of the information being discussed or the format that it is being discussed. X, Y, and Z want to copy the information of A through W to somewhere else, and then ban A, F, R, and Q so they cannot post further. X, Y, and Z can use this new space as an echo chamber. BONUS: X, Y, and Z can potentially charge people to get the information A through Z posted freely without compensating A through Z. “I agree with 421 that trying to be King of the Secret is bad and is destroying the hunt. We can solve that problem by allowing X, Y, and Z to be King of the Secret.” The hypocrisy and unawareness of self is remarkable. If you don't like the posts, don't respond. If you don't like the format, create your own. If you don't like this forum, find a forum that works for you. But f**k off with all this high and mighty bullshit. Thank God for Mark Parry.

alright. The place is all yours.

I like it here so I'll stick around but god save the queen!

Unknown: The place is all y ours. FTFY.

The whole concept of crowd sharing is to brainstorm and build on eachother's ideas not to stroke your own ego by rejecting other viewpoints. Right now some people have setup their own private stroke-fest thread and waiting for someone on the main forum to squirt out a "kernel of corn" for them to chew on. Meanwhile they do not share anything from walking the grounds and what they observed or learned. It's all one-sided. This is not how a crowd-sharing forum is supposed to work.

WilliamTater wrote:: ...look close and see what now is no longer there... https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/9722419/leonardo-da-vinci-secret-hidden-painting/

I dont know 'bout all the behind the scenes ego stroking, but I feel like this place is one big orchestra. Not everyone plays the same instrument or part and sometimes someone says something wonderful or shows us the inscrutable as johann did and we just love the jam like Yngwie here https://youtu.be/N5r-q8Kz9CI