Whatchu talkin bout WilliamTater?

GoldenMartyr

Whatchu talkin bout WilliamTater?

Let sleeping dog lie GM.

There is a huge possibility BP buried the casque here. there was an absolute reason the tree did not have a shadow in the water.

OK, I was confused.  I thought fox was referring to a train of thought linking Image 6 to GGP.  I get it now.
In my own comment regarding the rocks, I also incorrectly said GGP when I really meant GG National Recreation Area (mostly at the north end of the bridge).
And for a totally different suggestion, doesn’t the white rock look a lot like the top of the Matterhorn?  Maybe a mirror image of the view from Zematt that shows up on a lot of Internet searches?  The left-side profile is an especially good match.  There’s a Matterhorn in Anaheim, but I haven’t been able to get much further with this.  Just throwing it out to see if it sparks anything.

Regarding the previous post, what exactly is falcon’s GGP (Golden Gate Park, I assume) train of thought?
I ask because I had been putting together a line of reasoning around Golden Gate Park as I was first studying the various threads, but I dropped it when I saw a semi-consensus for Image 1 being SF.
Lots of the same reasons as SD, of course (Spaniards, rocks, surf).  Look at enough Google pictures of the rocks off the coast of GGP and you can be convinced that you’re seeing the white island/rock in Image 6.  The palm seems a little out of it’s latitude in SF, but the shape of the big rock on the left looks a lot like the city of SF.
Anyway, if there’s more thoughts about the Spaniard being in San Francisco, I’d love to hear it.

Train of thought for picture 1 as GG park:
reverse image of GGpark in dress
GH matches location of Great Highway
Hands of lady crossover park
near Crossover drive (highway one)
Loops in dragon match locations of lakes in the park
profile of Licoln/JFK in picture
Lincoln Ave Runs along South of park /JFK runs through park
Rose in picture
Rose garden in GGpark
Wierd shape in upper left of picture matches
Wierd shape of southern part of North Lake-
This ones weak as the southern part of north lake actually doesnt match that shape. -but the shape is almost identical to the depiction of that part of the lake on the most common tourist map of GGPark you can get throughout the park
Thats pretty much it.
I feel pretty strongly about this being a match.
But you will notice I havent found a treasure – so I could be reading this totally wrong. i.e. perhaps it means
“Not in GG park” but nearby…
As for image 6 being SF, absolutely – Although if its not FL, I will be surprised, (like I was suprised Cleavland wasn’t Philadelphia)
The other thing to think about is why couldn’t they both be SF – no where does it say He didn’t put two treasures in one city…. we all just assumed they were 12 different cities.

just to put it out there roanoke island have a native horse called the spanish mustang I forgot the other name it goes by check that out

Looks like “TOY” reversed in the grass.
I guess people have considered the USS Constitution cannonballs, if they were there at the time…? Somewhere in sight of these perhaps.
“
Shell
, limestone…”
It’s still possible that it’s not within FOY but somewhere nearby, like the end of Ocean Ave shown here. We could take the foot of the tall tree to refer to the tree in the pic beside this matching part of the coastline (reversed).

perhaps we need a new subject called hints from the book, not the V or P.
wilhouse

sounds like a good idea…that is a new section as mentioned by wilhouse.
The way I see it (& possibly how BP wanted it to be) all you really NEED to solve the riddles are the P’s & V’s.  Meaning that if all you had were the PsVs ripped from the book, you could solve them.  Now, placing confirmers or hints throughout the book may have been done also.  It just struck me as odd when I saw a TRAIN with 82 on it and it seems very probable that the 982 mentioned is our train in Houston.
Falcon’s “Cultural” find seems to also support this.  The more of these connections we find…the less likely they are coincidences.
Also, I may be wrong (will have to recheck) but I think “Union Jack” pp 166-167 is the Only one specifically mentioned to be found in Canada.  Vancouver BC.  Maybe we should start researching this city for our 1 Canadian casque.

I think there is also a Torontogre.

Way to clever for me shecrab.  Here’s my family…3 daughters, 5 sisters, a loving wife and one mom.  I would drink from the fountain just to catch up to them, but then who would they have left to enlighten?

burnstyle

That is not an artillery anchor, its the base of a lamp post.

We are clearly not in the same area. These are artillery anchors that held the artillery guns against the sea wall. The half circles around them allowed the guns to roll from side-to-side and cover almost 180 degrees. This photo shows the half circles where the guns were anchored
https://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/ … 4EA9A6.jpg
The bottom most half circle in this photo is my dig spot. Lines up nicely with the Watch Tower and side of the wall to give the idea for the artwork in Image 6.

MrBackstop

We are clearly not in the same area. These are artillery anchors that held the artillery guns against the sea wall. The half circles around them allowed the guns to roll from side-to-side and cover almost 180 degrees. This photo shows the half circles where the guns were anchored
https://media1.britannica.com/eb-media/ … 4EA9A6.jpg
The bottom most half circle in this photo is my dig spot. Lines up nicely with the Watch Tower and side of the wall to give the idea for the artwork in Image 6.

ooooooh! ok, I know what you are talking about now! I don’t think those are artillery anchors. I think I remember hearing on a tour that they were cooling areas for cannon balls, but I could be wrong. They are right there next to the oven. They have since had trees planted in them, but those trees are gone. I’ll check them out and get some pictures for you.

That would be great. The more info the better.
Here is what the anchors look like up close in Fort Jay on Governors Island in NYC. These were common set ups in the Windstar design forts.
http://www.bing.com/images/search?view= … edIndex=23

burnstyle

So.
The first line of the verse is a phrase plastered all over the fountain of youth.
The verse contains two series of words taken from two different info signs in the fountain of youth
The verse contains a quote from the Grave of the man who attacked St. Augustine
The painting possibly contains a map the man who attacked St. Augustine, made of St. Augustine (though reversed)
The painting contains Latitude and Longitude coordinates given to you in an exhibit at the Fountain of youth
The painting contains the word St. Augustine (though it’s shoehorned in)
The litany of the Jewels talks about the fountain of youth
The face of the mountain in the painting bears a striking resemblance to the Fountain of Youth’s Archological dig map (displayed in the park)
And the verse ends with the acrostic ‘Seloy’ which is the name of the Indian village the Fountain of youth is built on top of.
But you’re right… It’s probably in Daytona.

As I look at the one-armed conquistador a few questions come to mind:
Why is just one arm showing?
Why does his helmet have a triangular shape to the top?
How come he is sitting on a pony instead of a horse?

MrBackstop

As I look at the one-armed conquistador a few questions come to mind:
Why is just one arm showing?
Why does his helmet have a triangular shape to the top?
How come he is sitting on a pony instead of a horse?

Funding was tight

I believe this image falls under the following theme:
September?(can’t see a time)
Sapphire
Aster
Spanish Theme
“The Hadas of Iberia:
Sapphire, shy as a wild field flower.”
The flowers, difficult to make out, appear to be Aster:
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:fRxE4qirWaMC:plantsdatabase.com/imagesbyuser.php%3Fuser%3DCrimson+aster+%22morning+glory%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8
Also, Aster is local plant of North Central Florida.  8)
http://216.239.51.104/search?q=cache:qQALedLcuFkC:www.flmnh.ufl.edu/natsci/herbarium/locfl/locfvine.htm+aster+%22morning+glory%22&hl=en&ie=UTF-8

I’ve read through all of this discussion and I haven’t seen this match. The pattern in O-P/3-4 matches the map created for Sir Francis Drake’s attack on St. Augustine in 1586.
https://www.floridamemory.com/exhibits/floridahighlights/mapstaug/

I knew Mt Hood was big but WOW….you can see it from Florida?

boogieman, your pix arent showing

Unknown

Unknown:
Finally, in the Treaty of 1819, for $5 million and certain claims, Spain relinquished Florida to the 43-year-old United States. The transfer of flags did not take place until 1821. Florida then became a U.S. Territory, on its way to becoming a state.

In the V9 thread, someone mentioned:
The first chapter
Written in water
…in connection with Keats’ headstone. I know there’s a FOY interpretation, but perhaps it could relate to Keats as well, who died in 1821 at a house on the “Spanish Steps”.
http://www.keats-shelley-house.org/
Florida became a US territory in 1821.
http://www.floridahistory.org/territorial.htm
There’s an odd-looking thing in the background of Keats’ headstone in the
Protestant Cemetary
:
The
“Pyramid of Cestius”
– another candidate for the mystery rock maybe.
(Shelley mentions it in his epitaph for Keats,
Adonais
.)
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
My candidate for “weird imaginary thing in the rock” is an animal with a gem in its ear – like a cow’s tag.
(Or I guess this is one of the lions referred to previously…?)
I’m interested in visual connections between the images, which may be artistic/meaningful/imaginary. The palm tree reminded me of another palm on the same double page.
The collection at Keats’ home mentioned above includes “Byron’s wax carnival mask”.
Byron, Shelley, Keats…maybe the mountain figure could be one of these Romantic types.
The conquistador theme reminds me of Keats’ lines on Cortez.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/On_First_L … an’s_Homer

cw0909

maybe FOY will have some img, from the 80s from that area

Speaking of monkey wrenches, I just found this recent picture of the prospective location which has much of the picket fencing missing. The flag pole is there, but the rock base is not. Ugh. This hunt is two steps forward and one step back isn’t it? I still think this area has a lot of “confirms” and could be the spot.

In the same way SELOY Is an acrostic, I wonder if WNW in the first four lines of verse 9 tell which side of the base of the tall tree to dig? If you head WNW from the bending branch tree group, you land right back on the line of sight noted above.
The distance back to the line of sight may be just enough to avoid hitting tree roots — which Byron seems to have considered in his placements.

This isn’t a force fit.  Its just an estimation.  I took no measurements. I haven’t stretched or rotated the image.  Its just a plain idea.  I’m not going for exactness precision here.
Haystack Rock isnt even on the map.  Its farther to the west off the coast.

You have made the pictures the same size, the blue is in the same spot, the yellow is roughly in the same spot but the red (which you say is the main focus) is off. If it were the main focus and if this were the way, it would be exact. Once again, it sure seems like a forced fit. You seem so convinced that your locale is correct so you will go out and find anything remotely similar to make it fit. I did this once with the Lion pic which is, no doubt, Charleston. I had everything in that image forced to fit the 4 Corners area.

Adoks sent me this earlier today. I think it will be very helpful in locating the casques when we are unsure of their location. Enjoy!
(BTW: He did the artwork himself!! Isn’t he fantastic?)

Hilarious! I’m laughing my casque off, guys.

And we could always try one of these:

sorry… simply posting this in “other ramblings”
many from the tweleve site may have already seen this but I just wanted to share it with my hunting friends at Q4T.
Son & I were bored one day and decided to kill some time spoofing Fox’s new tv show
Drive
Enjoy!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xm-sq23MzSQ

Most artists place an importance on the perspective incorporated within the painting. The artwork for The Secret places all the casques in each picture. Image 6 has letters in the middle of the painting, center stage if you will, and they are as follows here. Their numerical value relative to the alphabet is 8 2 4. I believe this is significant because of the apparent 2/4 noted by many in the artwork.

WilliamTater

Behind the Globe building on the back there once was this object. It no longer appears there…but it IS in the painting and I believe it is a huge clue to which tree teh casque is buried.

That is a lamp. I think the blacksmith makes them.
I dont know how old they are, but they are all over the park.

The whole concept of crowd sharing is to brainstorm and build on eachother’s ideas not to stroke your own ego by rejecting other viewpoints.
Right now some people have setup their own private stroke-fest thread and waiting for someone on the main forum to squirt out a “kernel of corn” for them to chew on. Meanwhile they do not share anything from walking the grounds and what they observed or learned. It’s all one-sided. This is not how a crowd-sharing forum is supposed to work.

WilliamTater

…look close and see what now is no longer there…

https://www.thesun.co.uk/tech/9722419/leonardo-da-vinci-secret-hidden-painting/

Choice

So basically back to same-minded same-old failed tactics that haven’t resulted anything fruitful for decades while most sites are being redone, paved or bulldozed.
Meanwhile members like Gman, BINGO, NYC and others refuse to hear new ideas or outright reject ideas, as simple as substituting south for down.
So I think this forum will do best if the old failures move to private setting and allow free flow of thought and take their negativity with them.
And please charge them $10 for your troubles!

Ha! Says the tool who is afraid of tools. The goal here is not to be an armchair Google Earth jockey or a photoshop expert, it is to go on site and dig. Observe what is there. Not to mention that you sir, are abrasive and highly defensive. If you would come out of your mom’s basement once in a while and actually interact with people, you might have a different perspective.

Interesting. Anyone for toast coffee and a civil discourse?

Choice has admittedly pissed of a lot of people here, but he has never… not once, shown me any sort of hostility, or insulted me in any way.
I have no reason to think he would start now.
It takes a hell of a lot to irritate me. But you have.
Congratulations.

burnstyle

Choice has admittedly pissed of a lot of people here, but he has never… not once, shown me any sort of hostility, or insulted me in any way.
I have no reason to think he would start now.
It takes a hell of a lot to irritate me. But you have.
Congratulations.

I have no reason to. You’ve always been civil.
I don’t know what the deal is with that guy, trying to cause conflict by making things up.
This site is not monetized since you don’t see any advertisement. So any additional traffic to the site will only increase owner’s server storage cost; and he’s not accepting new users per his announcement. So none of this makes sense.

burnstyle

Most people dismiss this argument, or just ignore it… and don’t really give a reason for why they dismiss it. Which is unfair.
It’s an invalid argument. Most members who have been around for any length of time know that what was holding people back from finding anything for 40+ years is not because the tactics were wrong… its that no one was digging the solutions they came up with.
Honestly most of the old solutions were probably correct, but we will never know on some of them, because like you said, sites change and get paved over. Houston is probably lost because it took to long for someone to dig.
New York is the same way. Probably St Augustine too. who knows.
There is plenty in the book to figure out, there are still subtleties, twists, and likely major clues in the book that need to be discovered. But throwing everything that’s been done out the window because a hundred people who have never dug a hole haven’t found a casque seems pointless.
Take away the old guard vs. new guard mentality and look back at posts from 2004…. until about 2012. The attitude of hunters was different. In the houston thread you can see egbert, catherwood, falcon, wilhouse, fox, johann, all working together, coming up with ideas and working through them… discarding ideas that didnt work. generally just helping one another. Without any desire to be famous or whatever… just happily working as a team to solve a puzzle. It had been over 20 years since the casques were buried, they were all at a disadvantage, but they still trodded along and as a team came up with some of the most groundbreaking solutions this puzzle will ever have. the verse image pairings, the coordinates, the parks…. that was all found in the span of a year or two because everyone worked together.
Contrast that with the forum today.
I mean, you are right… new ideas will help. new people will help. But do you honestly think the methods that are being used right now… the type of communication…The Josh Cornells and the Taters… the photoshop micro image scans… do you honestly think it’s helping anything? Do you think anyone is working towards a goal? Because it seems to me like everyone is trying to one up everyone else, or prove they are smarter…. i dont know.
I have to agree with a sentiment that 421 and ren have put out there. Some people want to be king of the secret, and the only way they can get to the top is to tear everyone else down. It doesn’t help. Taking away some of the infighting might though.

I couldn’t agree more, Burn!
I arrived late in the hunt and when I joined Q4T it was very hostile only because of one or two members. Just like anything else, a few negatives outweigh all the positive that the community has produced. I found myself hooked to the site but for all the wrong reasons. Trying to prove someone wrong and out them in public becomes as much as a priority as the task at hand, or more so. I look back at my earlier posts and regret having engaged in such conversations.
I agree with Gman that the bulk of the information that will be lost the day the site is deleted will be a super shame. I do think we need active moderators that are not bias to anyone with some ground rules that can keep the forum and it’s users on track. Obviously some people will have a problem with this, since they think there is a big conspiracy going on to keep them silent or suppress information. The alternative is to continue the site as is until the plug is pulled. Beyond the moderators, we all need to show some personal responsibility and not engage in these internet fights and show some restraint and maturity. The block button is an amazingly useful and under rated tool in this site.
I also agree that there are good solves posted here for all to see and probably a few actual solves that have not been proven true. I don’t believe that everyone’s motivation is to find a casque here. Proof would be those post and threads made by people to get hits simple attention ploys. More proof, as stated above, is that very few people use their theories to do actual digs/probes. More so, the majority of the community hold on to great ideas because the seem to want the sole credit, if proven correct. The ongoing fantasy of proving everyone wrong seems to trump the possibility of solving the puzzle. One would think this casque is worth millions!
This is still the best resource we have for the puzzles. Don’t believe me, check out a FB group on the Secret! Yikes

WilliamTater

Interesting. Anyone for toast coffee and a civil discourse?

The time for coffee a s toast is long over. It’s like 300 around here. If you have any arms or legs left by the end of the day, we want to hear about the hole you are going to dig tomorrow.
The Oracle has fated that a box will be found before the next harvest. Keep moving forward.
And yeah, great post from burnstyle. Being overly dismissive or entering the game with the wrong goal is where most fail. If we do a better job communicating with each other, theres less getting in the way of our next successful recovery.

Unknown

Unknown:
I have made a list of 13 issues that I will be addressing when i return to FOY this fall or winter. I have typed up an agreement to offer the FOY owners to allow me to “poke around” a little. Cash is no obstacle. Each issue I will address in a methodical well presented plan. Wining and dining will not be out of question either. Everything is negotiable. I might even convince him to allow me to access that tree burnstyle has circled. (wouldn’t that be something) Like I’ve said before, I will find this casque.

This sounds like a reasonable plan to me. The best of luck to you.

WilliamTater

Postby four21thrasher » Fri Jul 12, 2019 5:50 pm
MaltedFalcon wrote:
The authors of the book were Sean Kelly
This by far surpasses the stupidest thing I have read on this forum. An outright lie by a “lt”… isn’t the first, won’t be the last.
four21thrasher

Oh ok, It took me a bit to understand your convulted logic, you are saying I am liar, because 421 said I lied. I get it…
but you missed, that was my opinion and still is my opinion – so nope sorry, not a lie…. 421s opinion aside…
Here are some straight up lies for you though…
WilliamTater » Thu Jul 18, 2019 11:21 am –Been using a program not dissimilar from LiDAR to peel away the layers of paint. i guess the artist repainted at least a few times, I even saw BP initial indications for changes.
WilliamTater » Fri Jul 12, 2019 3:00 pm
Matt, we’ve known each other for years. You can do better.
Lol..Matt..we talked two days ago..in person!
Mark – you are a pathological liar and a troll.

I still dont know what tree he is talking about.
I think it’s one tjgrey sent me like four years ago. He circled it to point out a tree that was removed when they built a storage shed. Who knows.

He has a history full of lies here. Under different names and personas.
He even claimed to be a Buddhist then posted violent and offensive comments under C.Zossima, the self-published author!
He’s sore that I’m not shy to call him on his hypocrisy and madness.
So this is his convoluted way of getting back at me and as usual with the Megamind’s plans they blowup on his face!
I think we should just put this unpleasantness behind us and move on.

erexere

The time for coffee a s toast is long over. It’s like 300 around here. If you have any arms or legs left by the end of the day, we want to hear about the hole you are going to dig tomorrow.
The Oracle has fated that a box will be found before the next harvest. Keep moving forward.
And yeah, great post from burnstyle. Being overly dismissive or entering the game with the wrong goal is where most fail. If we do a better job communicating with each other, theres less getting in the way of our next successful recovery.

Finally someone with brains and common sense! Enough armchair pontificating! Time to dig dig dig!

Unknown

Unknown:
I still dont know what tree he is talking about.

So what? He’s not asking for your help, is he?

Choice

I think we should just put this unpleasantness behind us and move on.

Good Plan!

Euhirudinea

So what? He’s not asking for your help, is he?

Yeah he was. But couldn’t tell me what tree he was talking about. He just kept saying “The one you circled”
Though… he also thought I was JM… so maybe it was something JM posted… I dunno.

WilliamTater

Time to dig dig dig!

Make sure you let us know how this goes. Right now, you seem to be warming the bench, telling everybody how big of a superstar you will be when you get into the game. Just get into the game, champ.

Unknown

Unknown:
Yeah he was.

Unknown

Unknown:
William Tater wrote: burnstyle, your knowledge is the key to solving the puzzle. Please share.

On this forum? I’ve read through all his posts, and the closest I could come is this, which he posted over a month ago:
Look, the OP articulated a plan to try and work with the owner of FoY in an attempt to recover the St. Augustine casque. Whether you or anyone else agrees with his solve or his plan seems to me to be besides the point. On its face, it should certainly not be the reason for derision or worse, finger pointing. Not if you are really interested in keeping things civil.
My two cents.

Euhirudinea

My two cents.

I’d just love to hear about the results once the plan is executed. This goes for everybody. So many people show up, tell us how they are the man with the master plan, then disappear when things go south.
We’re all striking out. The real question is who is improving their swing….

A while back I emailed Mark and offered to take over the financial burden of q4t, either by paying his hosting or hosting it myself. I asked (or offered or whatever) to take myself completely out of it (because I would be admittedly biased) and asked to institute impartial moderators. People like Catherwood, or whiterabbit, forest, or egbert.
Mark declined the offer. I wish he hadn’t.
Q4T could really benefit from people like them moderating it. People who love the hunt, but haven’t chosen a side so they wouldn’t, and couldn’t be accused of trying to lord over the place. or turn it into a new wiki. People who care enough about the community to step in when needed and make a level headed group based decision about ongoing problems.
Thats something this place desperately needs. The mass exodus of members is still happening, and will continue. While some people may talk publicly about how they don’t care… deep down we all know its a bad thing. Deep down we all know Q4T won’t last much longer without someone stepping in.
I’d hate to see Marks warning come true. I’d hate to wake up one day and q4t is just gone.

GoldenMartyr

I’d just love to hear about the results once the plan is executed. This goes for everybody. So many people show up, tell us how they are the man with the master plan, then disappear when things go south.
We’re all striking out. The real question is who is improving their swing….

Soon i will be on my 14th strike, speaking of

Unknown

Unknown:
I’d just love to hear about the results once the plan is executed.

I’d just like to know that the plan was executed. The results will speak for themselves. That’s why I encourage the plan (as long as it’s responsible), even when I personally don’t think it has a chance in hell of succeeding. I mean, blind squirrel, am I right?

strike13

Soon i will be on my 14th strike, speaking of

My goodness, trying to carry on the curse of the Bambino!

Euhirudinea

On this forum? I’ve read through all his posts, and the closest I could come is this, which he posted over a month ago:
Look, the OP articulated a plan to try and work with the owner of FoY in an attempt to recover the St. Augustine casque. Whether you or anyone else agrees with his solve or his plan seems to me to be besides the point. On its face, it should certainly not be the reason for derision or worse, finger pointing. Not if you are really interested in keeping things civil.
My two cents.

No via pm and email. But thank you for your interest.

Let me get this straight…
Problem 1:
A posts something.
X, Y, and Z don’t like A’s posts, and respond and cluster up the forum.
X, Y, and Z say there is a problem where people get mad and cluster up the forum.
X, Y, and Z propose banning A as a solution to a problem they created.
Problem 2:
A through W discuss and post information freely.
X, Y, and Z don’t like some of the information being discussed or the format that it is being discussed.
X, Y, and Z want to copy the information of A through W to somewhere else, and then ban A, F, R, and Q so they cannot post further.
X, Y, and Z can use this new space as an echo chamber.
BONUS: X, Y, and Z can potentially charge people to get the information A through Z posted freely without compensating A through Z.
“I agree with 421 that trying to be King of the Secret is bad and is destroying the hunt. We can solve that problem by allowing X, Y, and Z to be King of the Secret.”
The hypocrisy and unawareness of self is remarkable.
If you don’t like the posts, don’t respond. If you don’t like the format, create your own. If you don’t like this forum, find a forum that works for you. But f**k off with all this high and mighty bullshit. Thank God for Mark Parry.

burnstyle

A while back I emailed Mark and offered to take over the financial burden of q4t, either by paying his hosting or hosting it myself. I asked (or offered or whatever) to take myself completely out of it (because I would be admittedly biased) and asked to institute impartial moderators. People like Catherwood, or whiterabbit, forest, or egbert.
Mark declined the offer. I wish he hadn’t.
Q4T could really benefit from people like them moderating it. People who love the hunt, but haven’t chosen a side so they wouldn’t, and couldn’t be accused of trying to lord over the place. or turn it into a new wiki. People who care enough about the community to step in when needed and make a level headed group based decision about ongoing problems.
Thats something this place desperately needs. The mass exodus of members is still happening, and will continue. While some people may talk publicly about how they don’t care… deep down we all know its a bad thing. Deep down we all know Q4T won’t last much longer without someone stepping in.
I’d hate to see Marks warning come true. I’d hate to wake up one day and q4t is just gone.

First, why would Mark shut down the whole site? He could just delete “The Secret” threads.
Second, why don’t you do it? You have the means and the hosting space. Personally, I would charge a nominal fee, but enable uploads of images and video up to a limit. Maybe $10 a year. This is a huge deterant to random trolls.
If you set a limit to the size of 10Mb for files, the users would be responsible for hosting large files. Or discussed with you first.
I read a while back that you could siphon off the threads, or possibly shadow host them, so what little historical info is left after the exodus can be preserved. Or, you could just ask Mark if you can shift the threads to your new site.
As for the riff-raff on here, it seems that Mark takes a blunt force approach to banning. Enough people complain and poof, they are gone. I think with active moderating, this can all be nipped in the bud. Make it based on flagging and reporting.
Cue the bitching that free speech is being impinged, but if a particular post or user is being flagged repeatedly, then they deserve to be banned.
I think you might be able to get some of the old timers to come back. Valuable people, like wilhouse, blighted_forest, even Catherwood (and so many others) who I haven’t seen much of lately. This site has become a travesty and it is just plain sad that so much info has been lost.

alright. The place is all yours.

I like it here so I’ll stick around but god save the queen!

gManTexas

Second, why don’t you do it? You have the means and the hosting space. Personally, I would charge a nominal fee, but enable uploads of images and video up to a limit. Maybe $10 a year. This is a huge deterant to random trolls.
If you set a limit to the size of 10Mb for files, the users would be responsible for hosting large files. Or discussed with you first.
I read a while back that you could siphon off the threads, or possibly shadow host them, so what little historical info is left after the exodus can be preserved. Or, you could just ask Mark if you can shift the threads to your new site.

I’m working on something… but I don’t know if I can get it to work yet. The tricky part is getting all the old valuable info off q4t in an easily digestible and organizable way.
Mark making the secret threat publicly viewable made that effort a little easier… but not by much.
I did ask for an archive once, so that I could import it into another phpbb install, but that was turned down too. I think because an archive would include users PM’s and registration info, which I can understand him not wanting to give out.
and honestly I dont know if I have the means. Remember I live on a public servants income. Donations and patreon keep 12treasures running, and I still come out of pocket for that. Plus going around digging crap for everyone… meeting random people for dinner and beer or whatever. It gets expensive.
I already catch hell from people for taking donations… imagine if I charged people to access old q4t stuff. It would get crazy.

Unknown

Unknown:
The place is all
y
ours.

FTFY.

burnstyle

I’m working on something… but I don’t know if I can get it to work yet. The tricky part is getting all the old valuable info off q4t in an easily digestible and organizable way.
Mark making the secret threat publicly viewable made that effort a little easier… but not by much.
I did ask for an archive once, so that I could import it into another phpbb install, but that was turned down too. I think because an archive would include users PM’s and registration info, which I can understand him not wanting to give out.
and honestly I dont know if I have the means. Remember I live on a public servants income. Donations and patreon keept 12treasures running, and I still come out of pocket for that. Plus going around digging crap for everyone… meeting random people for dinner and beer or whatever. It gets expensive.
I already catch hell from people for taking donations… imagine if I charged people to access old q4t stuff. It would get crazy.

I totally get it. However, if the info is valuable then people will pay. Personally, if I knew that I could get info that was pertinent and searchable, I would pay for that…if I was totally into it. This is basically what separates the posers from the real hunters. We would lose the BS artists and some poeple would feel more invested in the hunt.

So basically back to same-minded same-old failed tactics that haven’t resulted anything fruitful for decades while most sites are being redone, paved or bulldozed.
Meanwhile members like Gman, BINGO, NYC and others refuse to hear new ideas or outright reject ideas, as simple as substituting south for down.
So I think this forum will do best if the old failures move to private setting and allow free flow of thought and take their negativity with them.
And please charge them $10 for your troubles!

Choice

So basically back to same-minded same-old failed tactics that haven’t resulted anything fruitful for decades while most sites are being redone, paved or bulldozed.
Meanwhile members like Gman, BINGO, NYC and others refuse to hear new ideas or outright reject ideas, as simple as substituting south for down.
So I think this forum will do best if the old failures move to private setting and allow free flow of thought and take their negativity with them.
And please charge them $10 for your troubles!

Most people dismiss this argument, or just ignore it… and don’t really give a reason for why they dismiss it. Which is unfair.
It’s an invalid argument. Most members who have been around for any length of time know that what was holding people back from finding anything for 40+ years is not because the tactics were wrong… its that no one was digging the solutions they came up with.
Honestly most of the old solutions were probably correct, but we will never know on some of them, because like you said, sites change and get paved over. Houston is probably lost because it took to long for someone to dig.
New York is the same way. Probably St Augustine too. who knows.
There is plenty in the book to figure out, there are still subtleties, twists, and likely major clues in the book that need to be discovered. But throwing everything that’s been done out the window because a hundred people who have never dug a hole haven’t found a casque seems pointless.
Take away the old guard vs. new guard mentality and look back at posts from 2004…. until about 2012. The attitude of hunters was different. In the houston thread you can see egbert, catherwood, falcon, wilhouse, fox, johann, all working together, coming up with ideas and working through them… discarding ideas that didnt work. generally just helping one another. Without any desire to be famous or whatever… just happily working as a team to solve a puzzle. It had been over 20 years since the casques were buried, they were all at a disadvantage, but they still trodded along and as a team came up with some of the most groundbreaking solutions this puzzle will ever have. the verse image pairings, the coordinates, the parks…. that was all found in the span of a year or two because everyone worked together.
Contrast that with the forum today.
I mean, you are right… new ideas will help. new people will help. But do you honestly think the methods that are being used right now… the type of communication…The Josh Cornells and the Taters… the photoshop micro image scans… do you honestly think it’s helping anything? Do you think anyone is working towards a goal? Because it seems to me like everyone is trying to one up everyone else, or prove they are smarter…. i dont know.
I have to agree with a sentiment that 421 and ren have put out there. Some people want to be king of the secret, and the only way they can get to the top is to tear everyone else down. It doesn’t help. Taking away some of the infighting might though.

Choice

So basically back to same-minded same-old failed tactics that haven’t resulted anything fruitful for decades while most sites are being redone, paved or bulldozed.
Meanwhile members like Gman, BINGO, NYC and others refuse to hear new ideas or outright reject ideas, as simple as substituting south for down.
So I think this forum will do best if the old failures move to private setting and allow free flow of thought and take their negativity with them.
And please charge them $10 for your troubles!

Don’t forget, the reptilian brain guy with small hands that goes by the username Bingo, is the same person who will bend over backwards for people searching in Boston.
I have met people in person, given them rides, loaned them tools, offered any help that I can and ask nothing in return. All the while, not believing in hardly any of the theories that those people are working on.
I go out in Boston and take pictures, probe areas of interest and even dig holes. All for people who can’t make it to Boston themselves and I ask nothing in return. All the while, not totally believing in the theories that those people are working on.
I try my best to call shit when I see shit written on this board. It’s not personal and it’s not meant to be vicious. These are the things that I bring to the hunt specifically in Boston. In my opinion, actions speak louder than words. Just what exactly have you accomplished here other than aggravating almost everyone at some point and flooding the board with posts and theories that you expect others to vet?

Permission Update:  I’ve finally received a response to my follow up email a month ago, and now I’ve been put in contact with yet another person.  I’m hoping this is the final link in the bureaucratic chain.

Ah, I see them now.  The middle one definitely looks like a lion’s mouth to me.

I used to live in San Diego, So I know Balboa Park pretty well.
I hate to say this, but I think if this picture points at SD, (I still think the large map of Fla points toward there) The only verse that remotely struck me as workable, is
Sorry Wilhouse,
Verse 1
Roughly
fortress north – one of the museums on the north side of plaza de panama
Friendship south – The japanese friendship garden is due south of the plaza.
Small of scale – nearby are several small houses from the World Exhibition (each one a scale model of a house from a country –
There are fountains galore-
bridges- paths,
and a zoo
as always quite a lot of changes since 1982 but still pretty much all there.
There is also a small train with whistle…
maybe someone else can add to this.
None of the other verses to me seemd to fit as well.
But I just want to say, Im pretty sure this image is Florida and verse 1 is houston…

Well,  I took a loooong look at picture 6, and can pretty much see anything in those rocks if you look hard enough!
Fox, I checked out the skylines in Fla., none seemed to match.
A few things I noticed.  First, the stream at the bottom of the picture is just not right.  It seems to flow and then dissipate.  Something there…
Also, when you flip the picture upside down, the flower stems seem to spell something.  I definately make out an “A” and an “R”.
Turning the picture on it’s side, the jewel seems to have three lions joined together protecting it… Don’t know if anyone else sees that.  I did a comprehensive look for lions in Florida.  Saw one picture of two lions at a sea front (St. Petersburgh?), but that was about it.
Also, what’s holding the flag?  Not the guy…  Is that a clue?
All for now.
ABQRAM

I honestly don’t see the lions yet… can you please describe them more?  Lions might work with San D though… I believe the SD Zoo is at Balboa Park.
Re: seeing anything in the rocks… I hear ya – I can see a similarity between the rocks up and to the left from the flowers and the SD skyline.  It’s not an exact match, but it looks similar to a horizontal flip of this pic:
http://www.printroom.com/ViewgalleryPho … mage_id=35
.  Perhaps from the right perspective it would be a better match.
I too have seen letters in the flower stems – I see an “H” to the left of the right-most flowers.
Also, the mountain/iceberg at the bottom right looks like a big block letter “E” to me.
Sure wish we knew who’s profile that rock formation is…
– Jambone

Jambone–
Look at the jewel.  One lion’s mouth is right below the jewel.  The other two mouth’s are right next to the first one…
I see that profile too, but it is too non-descript.  I have not committed myself to Florida and will look to see if San Diego is a better fit.
ABQRAM

Another Florida Keys Idea
We know Ponce De Leon explored this region.
There has also been mention of the flag possibly representing the keys.
Something else had been bugging me… that blue gem  like an eye on a face staring back at me…
Well… I looked more closely at the Keys for island shapes and such… here’s what I found.
On Big Pine Key there is thing called (appropriately) the “Blue Hole “
Here’s some info on that:  The Blue Hole is an abandoned rock quarry that was used for nearby road fills and Henry Flagler’s Overseas Railroad. The water it contains is mostly fresh and is used by various wildlife in the area, such as birds, snakes, alligators and feral Green iguanas. It is part of the National Key Deer Refuge.
Big Pine Key is located at  24°41′10″N  81°21′40″W  (does anyone else but me also see these possible numbers ?)
The kicker was the position of the Blue Hole in relation to the large bay like formation on the lower eastern side of the island.
Nearly identical to the Blue Gem and the big dark section to the lower right of the gem.
Some will not like this because it is not an “EXACT” match.
(though fair representations are more likely than exact X-marks-the-spot mapping)
Bear with me…
Above the dark space looks like a shark or some kind of fish…which could easily be blocking the rest of the coastal view of the island.
Supporting this I found this reference “A former shark processing plant is located on the east side of the key”
Here is a picture of what I’m talking about… I’ve voided out the dark area and red-outlined the shark/fish shape and included a satelite map as well as a plain map.
Any Florida Key fans out there?

Choice

I’m going with the positioning of the flag ball and the purple circle which is north west direction. The statue is way up north.

yes very much like the water tower from the chicago casque
or the
transit building from the cleveland casque

When you send someone an email and you get an immediate response saying (out of the office until…) does that mean you need to resend the email later?

lol…no.

Thanks.  I’m giving it my best shot to get permission.

It’s been a good day.  Purchased Masquerade today for 6 bucks.  My copy of The Secret is expected to be here by tomorrow or the next day (8 bucks).  I completed my letter to the archaeologist to get permission to do dig in Corbett if I get good results from probing with a small metal rod (24″).

geez guys, i hope this hasn’t been mentioned because i feel stupid i hadn’t noticed it.
look at stercox’s pic of the whole park that cw just posted.   the rock (the big rock that ponce is on) in our picture is the shape of the park.
i think.

Does anyone remember the movie “Romancing the Stone” with Michael Douglas and Kathleen Turner? In it, Turner’s character solves the location of a treasure by
folding
a map, revealing the real location of the emerald. I think a similar trick was used in a much more recent Volvo hunt. I wonder if something similar could be done with P6.
http://www.yourprops.com/view_item.php?movie_prop=17719

slappybuns

geez guys, i hope this hasn’t been mentioned because i feel stupid i hadn’t noticed it.
look at stercox’s pic of the whole park that cw just posted.   the rock (the big rock that ponce is on) in our picture is the shape of the park.
i think.

That would put the gem in the picture right about at the “a” in “archeologic digs”
lol

Does anyone think that “Years pass, rain falls” could allude to shoreline erosion? I mean, a clue that we are supposed to be looking closer to the shore? I mean, I’m pretty sure the large stones placed along the shore here (can be seen in a bunch of Stercox’s photos) to stop/slow erosion have always been there.  I know that with the two that have been found, the clues were a bit more straight foward, but they also seemed to direct you to the actual dig spot like a written map and V9 doesn’t do that. And erosion is actually just what I think of when I think of years passing and rain falling. Maybe that just because I’m married to an environmental scientist…

cobock1

And erosion is actually just what I think of when I think of years passing and rain falling. Maybe that just because I’m married to an environmental scientist…

Yes, I think that it is because you are married to an environmental scientist…
Besides, what could be the worst thing that BP could have done?  Buried a casque near an eroding shoreline.

maybe someone could resize them and twist them, or overlay them together for us

You do have to wonder. Would BP have bothered to hunt down arial photos of the park only to hide the casque? I’m not sure how exact of a coastal map the rock is supposed to be. I’m pretty sure that google earth didn’t exist in 1980. If anything he would have turned to USGS topographical maps of the region. So, if you guys want to try out the “big rock is actually an exact map of the park disguised as a big rock” idea that I abandoned long ago, then you should probably use the USGS topos. Unless you guys find that the date on the USGS arial photos of the region existed in 1980. But you still have to ask, whether he would have gone through that much trouble.
But you are right, and it has been mentioned on the forums before, the coastline does indeed resemble the rock face that is in P6.

I get what you are saying and I’ve seen these signs.
You believe that I am chasing a red herring and I believe that you are chasing one. That’s what makes this so damn fun to try to figure out. No one has found the other 10 in 35 years so obviously there are a lot of people misinterpreting the clues, hints and Herrings.
Good luck with your solve.

I can’t remember if I have posted this before or not.
I’ve found “charles” in Charleston too… but I cant make out the ‘ton’

What’s that say?

St Augustine

I have to agree with whiterabbit. Everything up until the last 4 lines can be directly attributed (mostly word for word) with something inside the foy

burnstyle

I’ve found “charles” in Charleston too… but I cant make out the ‘ton’

That’s perfect, it totally matches the verse where Preiss wrote:
Charles in Charleston
of our days
and our nights
Charles in Charleston
of our wrongs
and our rights…
and I see

The only thing buried in white point gardens is Scott baios career.

I’m sure The Scot Baobab tree spirits are important to this hunt.
E: ahh, Burnstyle already riffed on that.

Burnstyle – I would like to see the “Charles” you found in Image 2. Post it under the image 2 post please.
Regards,
Mac

Unknown

Unknown:
The only thing buried in white point gardens is…

There are a lot of things buried in WPG. The only way to know for sure that one of them is not a casque is to find the Charleston casque in another park. And that is, IMO, the fundamental flaw with the puzzle.

Macfos

Burnstyle – I would like to see the “Charles” you found in Image 2. Post it under the image 2 post please.
Regards,
Mac

will do.

erexere

Thanks.  I’m giving it my best shot to get permission.

Just got off the phone with the State Archaeologist.  She supports my claim and has given me a list of licensed archaeologists to call, i.e. hire, and they will process my dig permit request.
Eric.
Put in my first call for a quote.  Time to see how much something like this will cost.

Unknown

Unknown:
I understand that you guys have put alot of time, effort, and emotion into solving this hunt. Therefore, I am not surprised that when someone new comes along and offers a different perspective other than your own you are inclined to automatically reject it in such an arrogant and snobbish way. It’s ok though, no hard feelings. But I do have one question. How can your theories be “almost basically confirmed”? If something is confirmed, there cannot be any doubt about it. Almost confirmed? lol
I think it’s fair to say that the finding of a casque is the only measure of confirmation.

Unknown

Unknown:
i am here to burst all your bubbles.

So then, Matty, the thing that you need to do is to dig up the casque in Dallas–and if you do, I think you will be surprised at how gracious the apologies can be.
But before you set out on your road trip, perhaps you ought to read through the verse 9-image 6 posts and the verse 1-image 8 posts. And you might want to find another way of presenting your “evidence” than the following:
Because in some people’s minds, that might sound just a teensy bit presumptious, since it could be said that you apparently based your entire theory on one section of one mural, the bottom Southewestern border of a state, two of three numbers, and a single article about palm trees in Texas. We have palm trees here in Ohio, too, but I’m not basing any theories on them.
No one is trying to quash your enthusiasm–but you needn’t reinvent the wheel if it is already working.

But your Ohio palm trees don’t look like our P and are probably very hard to dig under

shecrab

But before you set out on your road trip, perhaps you ought to read through the verse 9-image 6 posts and the verse 1-image 8 posts.

We all know how addicting these hunts can be and a lengthy roadtrip can be very costly.  On another hunt I was working on I was sure I knew where a treasure was and used the company credit card {I was completely broke at the time} to ‘sponsor’ a trip.  Needless to say, the treasure was not found…turned out to be several states away…  Fortunately, my explanation to the boss appeased them and my debt was slowly taken from my paychecks.
It isn’t that we are completely shrugging your ideas off, but there have been lots of work on these and we are fairly certain that we have nailed down quite a few of the PV pairings and have:  a City {almost positively}; a Park {fairly certain}; and a Site to dig {still working on these}.  My ‘attack’ on your idea was NOT meant to be an ‘attack’ and I apologize if it sounded that way.  It is just that it seems that when new members arrive {which we always want because new ideas can be just what is needed}, they seem to always go after the P or V or both that seem to be the most concrete of them all.  Cases in point: (a) our Houston PV pairing is about as solid as they come.  The author has done everything but tell us “exactly” where to dig.  I find it very hard to imagine that we have either the P ( 8 ) or the V (1) incorrect…yet we arrived at the proper location.  (b) the Florida PV pairing of P6/V9.  Ponce de Leon, the Florida shape in the mountain with the jewel representing Lake Okochobe, palm trees, etc…  Are these too obvious?  I don’t think so.  Maybe a P containing only one of these could possibly mislead us but when they keep adding up…hmmm.  Or, if we didn’t have a V that leads us to FL, then maybe we are wrong.  But, along comes V9.  When coupled with a FL P, too many lines in V9 tell us we are correct in not only the state of FL but to a very specific park…the Fountain of Youth Park.
By all means mattyL, keep the ideas coming.  But as shecrab stated, before you come out and say ‘you guys are so wrong’, perhaps you should try [yes, there is alot] to catch up with all of the hard work done here.  And also, please don’t take these posts as personal attacks.  Even us oldtimers have tossed out some very outrageous ideas.  I was very hardheaded
and convinced V1P2 lead to the Four Corner area.  I KNEW I was right but no one would listen.  Too bad someone noticed that the lines on the lion’s head looked kind of like
Charleston.  Darn them.  P4 was also DEFINITELY somewhere in PA…most likely Pittsburgh but then Sir Egg had to go to Cleveland and dig up a casque.  I still think he is wrong lol
And then there’s poor Trohn and his obsession with equines
. Now there is an entertaining story that perhaps you and he can sit down and enjoy with a Mint Julep.   Enjoy the hunt mL, taking the good with the bad.

Earlier today I lost all confidence in myself thinking I’ve ignored important parts of the book by only using the verses and images.
I knew Ponce de Leon was a Spanish explorer who landed in St. Augustine and he was the 1st Governor of Puerto Rico.  Of course that doesn’t connect to Oregon, but I convinced myself it had something to do with Oregon Territory’s 1st Governor, Joseph Lane.  I had nothing else to work with as a way to move past that glaring Spaniard and his horse.
Moments ago I read about the history of the Columbia River and the Oregon Coast, this time looking for a Spanish connection.  I did remember visiting the Heceta Head Lighthouse and reading a plaque about Bruno Hezeta, but I wasn’t paying close enough attention.  History is just not my strong suit.  Also, I thought Robert Gray was the discoverer of the Columbia River, since as an American, it was his claim that settled the dispute with Britain who tried to claim it shortly after his discovery in 1792.  Bruno Hezeta didn’t sail into the mouth of the Columbia but he concluded it was a great river and wrote about it in his journal, on August 17, 1775, Hezeta became the first to map and record a written description of the entrance to the Columbia River”.  Way to go Spain!  Perhaps we’ve mistook Bruno for Ponce this entire time?
This link supplied me with a good back story on the Columbia River’s discovery and mentioned a familiar date 1818 which got me wondering why that date appears on Image4.  (I know it’s seen as a container for the latitude of Cleveland, but is it more than that?)
http://www.nwcouncil.org/history/columbiariver.asp

possibly it is more, however it would be more for cleveland. as we know 1picture and 1 verse = casque
you are suggesting more than one picture would have clues for a casque and thats a non – starter.
If you have to resort to that to bolster you theory, it makes your theory very weak.

I now live and work on the west coast of Florida (a nice change from New Jersey), so if there is anything you want to explore, let me know.

Welcome South Egbert.
Sorta, anyway.  In Floriday, the further South you go, the further north you get.
What area?
I’m on the west coast of Georgia, so not too far away.

I live in Naples, and work in Ft. Myers.

I know St. Augustine is the favored location for this one, but here are just a couple of observations in favor of the west coast…
Folks have mentioned this before as pointing to the state of Florida, but maybe it points to the west coast specifically.
I’m just sayin’.

Ever since fox broke this hunt wide open with his latitude / longitude observation, I’ve been looking for numbers in this picture. If these really are 82 and 83, that puts us on the west coast of Florida.

Egbert

I now live and work on the west coast of Florida (a nice change from New Jersey), so if there is anything you want to explore, let me know.

Egads, not another unearthing by Sir Egg!  lol
Couple of things we may want to remember.  Long ago, Cat came up with the theory that the casques will be buried in larger PORT cities.  So, where would that leave us on the western coast of Florida?….  Tampa Bay seems to be the logical choice.  Is TB considered a major port city?  hmm, this is interesting..just did a google on “major port cities” and one of the hits included this:  “Major port cities with low areas include Boston, New York, Charleston, Miami, and New Orleans.”  That list looks pretty familiar…but it has Miami (wrong coast).
-for now, TB lat/lon wavers around 27-28 N lat & 82-83 W lon.

Maybe wrong coast, but it is where that rock and palm tree sits.  Miami?
Miami= 25 and 80
edit: Alligators in Miami?  Everglades?
http://www.freewebs.com/patcash/image6.htm

Never even saw the 82 83…. I like it!  I really like the P fitting snuggly with the western coast.  So, what does that leave us?  Is Pensacola too far west?  If so, we are looking at Clearwater, Bradenton, Naples and of course (my favorite which I have actually been toying around with) Key West.  Looks like it is time to move to the other coast of FL and do some digging (research wise, not casque unearthing {yet}).

thats white?

maltedfalcon

thats white?

No.  The white stone is twelve paces south.

I was mistaken on the 1818 date.  Image4 says “1881” not 1818.
Here’s a cool shot of where I think a casque is buried.  I have my back to the 50 ton boulder and I’m looking right at the spot 12 paces North from the west side of the white stone.

uh!  what good is being “eternally young” if it doesn’t protect you from  poisoned arrows??????
we should get more super powers from that stupid fountain of youth! or at least they should put warnings on the bottles!

Quite possible.  We do have a rebus in the Milwaukee image.

Just a couple things I didn’t see mentioned… I see the number 41 in the green stems of the flowers on the leftmost side, one forwards, one backwards. Also about the island, I thought it could be a sort of rebus, “Palm Beach”, Palm Beach Island”, “Palm Island” ,etc.

I’ve been pestering FOY about Magnolia Ave, and they just got back to me –
“Thanks for reminding. We are finishing up major projects and ready to find that casque! Will do some digging this week near the curve.”
I’ve messaged them back as follows:
* * * * *
“I wish I could be more certain where to look, but my current favourite areas in Magnolia Ave are:
1) Near the hydrant, by the curve in the wall, near the base of that palm on the other side. Might there be a danger of hitting a pipe or something near that though…?
2) In the corner behind the cannon next to the railings. (Could these possibly be suggested by the patch of grass stalks in the image…?)
(With the two found casques, one was beside a wall, and the other near a fence.)
* * * * *
I know y’all are cynical about my Magnolia Ave ideas, but keep your fingers crossed anyway, and if anyone has a sudden inspiration about a great place to try digging in this area, now would be a good time…!
* * * * *
I may not be the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I know how to nag…

this pic has a tall tree and picket fence and there is a flag on the sign:
http://www.panoramio.com/photo/3441930
i like around the planetarium because of the stars move by day and sails pass by night lines but surely everyone has been all over this place.
but then i wonder, if the first lines mean “a road we use”, then water street is over by the great cross and nombre de dios.
does anyone think the cathedral basillica looks like the building on p. 205, the unreal estate brokers?

cw0909

does anyone know what this is, found on google maps, looking at foy park
this is in the park

I believe that is a monument that , when looked at from overhead, matches the shape on the pennant in image 6.  Here’s a section of image 6 with a piece of the park map (from a photo in the yahoo group added by Egbert I believe) added to it:

I really beleive it is around FOY Park, there are several parks near/adjacent, as well as St Augustine nearby.
But The actual FOY park is private property and was back then also.
There is a verse that says ” get permission to dig out”
This verse does not, therefore it cant be actually on the FOY grounds…

Nice picture Jam

I think this is the obelisk everyone is referring to…..
but, I don’t think this is big enough to take up that large ’roundish-rocky-looking’ area in cw’s post.  If I remember correctly, this obelisk IS in the same area because the trail matched the P’s banner but I don’t think it is where cw shows.  Please, correct me if I am mistaken.
I also find this very interesting since they keep popping up everywhere…
this was found at:
http://flickr.com/photos/mainmanwalkin/3074103693/

and finally….{at least for now}
I have read off and on that FOY is also known as the Fountain of Youth Archaeological Park.  Although that is a fitting name to go digging at, would we even be allowed to dig IN the park?  There also seems to be an entrance fee…but maybe this was enacted after BP interred a casque there.
We all know that images from the P’s have been visible both in Cleveland as well as in Chicago.  My question is this:  In either of those locations, were any V words/phrases visible as well?  We all know that the entrance sign of FOY says “The First Chapter” so maybe this is the ‘thing’ that can be seen at the dig site.  Could the grassy areas across Magnolia St {as seen in below link} be a possible dig site?
http://flickr.com/photos/roundamerica/3123714209/

stercox is that the only green picket fence in the park, and has
there ever been another fence someplace in the park
and is that the only wall in the park, that has shells embedded
in it, one more Q how far does the fence run down the lane,
and is there a fence on the other side of the lane/drive
sorry one more Q, is there a creek/s in the park

stercox

That corner is not accessible.  The electric runs from that corner to the out buildings—underground lines.

Just following the clues as laid out in the verse.
The beginning of the verse is absolutely at the entrance to the park.
The end of the verse leads one to be at a place, under bending branches,
next to a green picket fence, and (if agreed that the imbedded shells are the ‘moonlight in teardrops’)
next to the outter wall.
The image indicates that the jewel is next to (in) stone (simialr to the Cleveland find)
I understand the electrical lines, but that is just my read of FOY.

Yo Trohn, tomorrow night’s American Idol was filmed at Churchill Downs.  Giddy Up!!!

Trohn

That border wall has millions of imbedded shell pieces.
(Like moonlight kn teardrops )
I believe that the spot is at the corner of the green picket fence and that
border wall along Magnolia.  This would coincide to the inside of the park where the
exit lane would be located.

That corner is not accessible.  The electric runs from that corner to the out buildings—underground lines.

Probably nothing but I figured why not post it. The space between the rock and the tree looks a good bit like Virginia.

“Over the tall grass,Years pass, rain falls.”
This section seems oh so vague to me.
*Tall grass?  You can find that anywhere.  I am wondering if there is a sign nearby or something around there that specifically mentions ‘tall grass’ or possibly the indian translation of tall grass or even some type of play on words.
*Years pass?  Once again, years pass EVERYWHERE you are.  I think this directly refers to the Explorers Discovery Globe.  On the old map that cw posted (
http://family.webshots.com/photo/208943 … 0493DLsiOy
) look how it describes this building.  A passing of 100 years.
*Rain falls?  Sure does, anywhere and everywhere.  I had an aha moment
while perusing cw’s posts.  This one regards the fountain.  How long has this particular fountain been around?  Was it there when BP walked the park?  Take another look at it and you will know why I ask.
http://community.webshots.com/photo/ful … 0493rAmLGK

Hey, guys. Just a reminder, I live less than two hours from St. Augustine (Gainesville). I’ve lived here for 23 years and am very familiar with this park and St. Augustine. My wife and I are planning a February trip to St. Augustine. If anyone wants me to document anything in the park or around this area in particular, then just let me know. You can write in this forum, but an email may catch my attention faster. cobock1 at msn dot com.

forest_, i guess i’m kindof hoping the lists i made might somehow mean something
i have “2 informational guys” for this pic.  which i take to be  a “sign” ((lol, i mean like that entry “sign”) or wherever the people gather to learn about the place, something like that, possibly.

slappybuns

the honking could be the parking lot….

This is an interesting idea–when I put this together with something that Sawdusty once said to me—it really does get me thinking in a different vein. Hmmmm.    I think it would require a less confined interpretation of the clues and actually would broaden the area of search (at least initially) and not define a tighter area for digging, which has been my approach to this—because in the end ya gotta dig–and digging holes can be some tough work.  A fence does have two sides and “behind a…..fence”—well its up for interpretation depending on which side of the fence you are standing on.    I will have to think about this for a while….

stercox after looking at your, webshots albums for foy,
just wow! on the great work, guess i was reading to fast
and missed, your previous posts on your work
and thanks to your albums, this Interpretation, was made
possisable LOL
albums
http://community.webshots.com/user/stercox
i know this is mostly a rehash, but im hoping some of my
Interpretation, will help stercox to thinking, a little dif
on/about some of the stuff, that was veiwed firsthand
to bad there are not any 20+ yr pics, to measure my
Interpretation by
i have a little dif Interpretation of a
couple of lines in V-9. i beleive you are in the
right area, just need to zero in. u r thinking oh! what an understatement still LOL
i think all the things i wrote below, can be seen from casque site
as well as confirmers, that your in the right place, and as there are no
other directions, other than at the base of a tall tree
is why they are mention in verse, because B.P. knew the park
would be easily found from the pic, as the first thing i thought,
when i first looked at pic was, Conquistadors and fla. even though
i was unaware of F.O.Y., im sure with a little research, it could
be found, as your schematic match shows
schematic
http://family.webshots.com/photo/220708 … 0493TLIlWq
The first chapter
Written in water
i think this line refers to, the spring house,as the
F.O.Y. is what ponce was looking for,ie. purpose of
his first voyage here/first chapter
and the old entry, dosent appear to have the F.C. sign
is this the entry B.P. would have used?
spring house is first point of zero in
old entry
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/22 … 0493lJoMEg
Near men With wind rose/ i think this is the second point
in the zero in, and agreed goes with these lines as well
Stars move by day
Sails pass by night
Even in darkness
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/22 … 0493AmpdBy
#3. Behind bending branches/i think you have nailed that, geezze was i so wrong
http://family.webshots.com/photo/286266 … 0493vIvQGt
#4. And a green picket fence, this area was prob the old exit maybe?
but still the right fence area
http://family.webshots.com/photo/200402 … 0493SRSlSE
At the base of a tall tree, could all of the points ive listed, be seen
from the felled tree you dug at? was wondering why you choose that
side of the tree to dig and not the other side, nevermind i get it, he would
be more out of sight, to bury it, though 20+ years ago, anywhere around
the tree, he might not have been seen
if this was the tree, the casque may have been destroyed.
to bad you couldnt talk to the guys that did the
job, maybe they saw something unusal.
dig
http://family.webshots.com/photo/283765 … 0493UOGQqw
#5.You can still hear the honking, i think duck pond, not the parking lot,
as since the entry was dif the parking lot would have been too
is the duck pond still in the same place, 20+yr later
#6.Shell, limestone, silver, salt could be talking about all the markers,
but im thinking the old fountian next to the planetarium, may be what B.P. was
looking at. im thinking if the old part of fountian,pedstel part the kids are
on was made up of those same materals, as the wall is, then this would also go with
the moonlite and teardrops line, ie. water droplets, shining on shells
would this fountian have been there, when B.P. was
old fountain
http://good-times.webshots.com/photo/26 … 0493rAmLGK
Over the tall grass,Years pass, rain falls.
an area you would have to look over the tall grass to see site,or
there was tall grass and he could not have been easily seen
how old is this map? an older say 1982 map, might help pinpoint the casque too
http://family.webshots.com/photo/208943 … 0493DLsiOy
another thought on maps, pics ect.maybe the archeology people/ foundation
would have some old maps, pics, as they need to record everything, and its
placement, where they dig, i think even stuff close by, as the area you are looking in

Lots of “Lane” reference in the legend.  Portland Women’s Forum is listed with an arrow and a small mark to show Mt. Hood’s location make it easy to use a compass.
1972 Oregon Map I found in the recycling bin today.

Okay. Here is an easy one. A kindergarten koan. Use your imagination.

Choice

Dang, I used up all my 3 wishes.

Fate rules people’s lives and those who interfere with fate do so to their sorrow.

WilliamTater

Fate rules people’s lives and those who interfere with fate do so to their sorrow.

Drugs rule everything around me. – The Transplants

Are you a fan of J Kugler?
. o O ( are we all enlightened yet?! )

Dude that’s JuJu magic….Quick get your monkeys paw!

…are those cancer cells?

Dang, I used up all my 3 wishes.

Some of my friends sell records, some of my friends sell drugs

Sounds like government LSD experiment victim.
Witchcraft law of 3 fold return!

Choice

Sounds like government LSD experiment victim.
Witchcraft law of 3 fold return!

You speak what you see…

I liked Zossima better. Account locked?

Z o s s i m a

Unknown

Unknown:
nonsense

If you guys are keeping track, put me down as a fan. This is all very entertaining once you get past the overtones of what Drunknerds used to call Mental Health Tourism.
Keep it fun guys.

I just wanted this cat to tell me what he was talking about. Oh well…carry on.

GoldenMartyr

I just wanted this cat to tell me what he was talking about. Oh well…carry on.

The last Golden Martyr…

You sir are disturbed. AGAIN seek help.

I would like to invite consideration of Southern California (and the San Diego area in particular) as an alternative to the Florida theory.  This is just a hunch, but it’s based on the following:
1.  SoC is every bit as Spanish as FL.
2.  Oceans, palm trees, Spaniards, etc.
2.  The SD area could match the latitude portion of the theory.
3.  The terrain is a much closer fit.  You could pile up all the rocks in the entire state of FL and still not have enough for our conquistador to stand on.  Florida islands don’t look like the image island, either.
Maybe Balboa Park (including the zoo)?  One of it’s most famous features is an equestrian “El Cid” statue.
I’m in Georgia, and I’d love for this to be FL, but it doesn’t feel right to me.
Any thoughts about the SD area?

wasnt that pond added later?

Unknown

Unknown:
Hopping on a flight Wednesday heading to St. Augustine to the FOY.

Safe travels. The best of luck to you as well.

stercox

The owner of FOY has asked me to share with the group his concerns about unauthorized digging in this park.  He reports more inquiries and visitors regarding The Secret.   Frankly, it makes him a little nervous.    The park has unfortuantely become an archeological park of greater significance than when BP buried the casque there all those years ago.   The owner has employed further security to prevent any unauthorized digs.   Please be respectful of his wishes.  It would be unfortuante for someone’s actions to cause a severing of the relationship with this park (a known Secret site) and/or get arrested.   I would hate for this to happen to any of my fellow hunters.   The owner is well aware of the treasure being there and is invested in finding it.  He is on our side and has a warm heart for us Q4T’ers– But all digging there must be done at the right time and with the full knowledge of the archeologists, the state,  and on the owners terms.    Thank you for your understanding.

hi do you remember if this area has 2 walls, and would it be possible for you to dig there,if it is 2 wall, i get the archaeological aspect, just seems this area fits,maybe there is tall grass
behind the wall
looks like 2 walls by the pickett fence
http://tinyurl.com/3fuwdko

So you like stone markers?!

I have always seen the ‘2’, and the area to its left could either be an ‘8’ or a ‘3’.  If we assume this is Florida, then ’32’ is too far north.  Therefore, if we use ’82’ that puts us in Tampa/St.Petersburg at 27N 82W.

More speculation:
I’ve always thought that there was a pretty clear “38” that is upside-down, below the horse’s front legs and to the left of the jewel.  But possibly that is what rob is proposing as “76”?

Below and to the left of the wing-shape, on a level with the “throat” of the rock (as it is a giant profile), there seems to be a 4 (written just like that, with a triangular shape).  There could be another 8 to the left of it (yet, there are so many 8s).
–Johann

Another idea:
When I turn the pic sideways, the profile facing down, the dark patch across (now diagonally up and right) looks like an uneven set of stairs.
–Johann

I’m going to post this here because of the conversation, but I think a new topic is merited.
Look at the picture that Fox pointed out on page 199 in the book of the train.  That train looks almost exactly like the 982 train in Houston.  It is very distinctive, with it’s flat, round face and pointed cow catcher.
Now look at the I beam on the left.  There is a clear letter H on the end. Yes, it’s an I beam, but it is turned sideways. I beams are always flat side up and down, especially sitting on it.  Also, the H is highlighted.
The comic book the person is reading is Hawkman.  There are hawks in the zoo.
Also look in the background at the left side by the I beam.  There are the 4 posts from Image 8.
We need to start looking at these pictures, they might marry the images and verses!!
wilhouse

so the I beam looks more like an H beam?  H = Houston or Hermann?
Dont know if it is needed but here is a little on our Hawkman:
http://www.dcuguide.com/Who/Hawkman1_Bio.htm

Hey all,
This post covers multiple verses (1, 3, 7, 12) and multiple pictures (5, 6, 7, 8 ).  There doesn’t seem to be just one thread that was appropriate for this kind of post so I just posted it in all 8 threads.  So if you have read this post once you don’t have to read the other 7 as they are all the same.
Socrates, Pindar, Apelles
Free speech, couplet, birch
To find casque’s destination
(Verse 4) (Lines 10, 11, 12)
The word birch rhymes with verse so I think the line is supposed to read FREE VERSE, COUPLET.  Now separate the initial letters of each couplet that rhymes from the initial letters of the free verse(i.e. the lines that don’t rhyme).  You can do this for all the verses(although some of them are all free verse with no lines that rhyme), however, for reasons that I will make clear below I think the only verses that matter here are Verses 1, 3, 7, and 12.  In all the verses below I have highlighted the lines that rhyme.
I will start with Verse 12 as we already know the answer for that one.
Where M and B are set in stone
And to Congress, R is known
L sits and left
Beyond his shoulder
Is the Fair Folks’
Treasure holder
The end of ten by thirteen
Is your clue
Fence and fixture
Central too
For finding jewel casque
Seek the sounds
Of rumble
Brush and music
Hush.
So you end up with: WABTICBH which when you rearrange the letters and use the B’s as blank spaces between the words you get: CHI B WA B T or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the B’s – Chicago Water Tower.  As we all know this is the tower in Picture 5.  This also explains the use of the word Hush in the verse, BP needed a word that started with H and rhymed with Brush.
On to Verse 1
Fortress north
Cold as glass
Friendship south
Take your task
To the number
Nine eight two
Through the wood
No lion fears
In the sky the water veers
Small of scale
Step across
Perspective should not be lost
In the center of four alike
Small, split,
Three winged and slight
What we take to be
Our strongest tower of delight
Falls gently
In December night
Looking back from treasure ground
There’s the spout!
A whistle sounds.
So you end up with: NISPOILA which when you rearrange the letters and use the I’s as blank spaces between the words you get: NO I S I PLA or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the I’s – New Orleans Spanish Plaza.  And there is a
Spanish Plaza in New Orleans.
On to Verse 3
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
A green tower of lights
In the middle section
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
With metal walls
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free.
This time use the letters that begin the free verse lines: INTANWWFYFAETL which when you rearrange the letters and use the extra WFA as blank spaces between the words you get: FT W WAYNE F LIN A T or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the WFA – Ft. Wayne Lincoln Tower.  And there is a Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne Indiana built in 1929.
And finally Verse 7
At stone wall’s door
The air smells sweet
Not far away
High posts are three
Education and Justice
For all to see
Sounds from the sky
Near ace is high
Running north, but first across
In jewel’s direction
Is an object
Of Twain’s attention
Giant Pole
Giant step
To the place
The casque is kept.
I first started anagramming this one using the same method of separating the letters that I used above and ended up with some wrong answers that wilhouse pointed out.  So I think for this one you anagram all the letters together: ATNHEFSNRIIOGGTT which when you rearrange the letters and use the G’s as blank spaces between the words you get
HST G NATION G FRET or filling in the letters left out of the abbreviations and removing the G’s – Houston National Forest.  This one didn’t anagram to my satisfaction as you end up with an extra I but there is a Sam Houston National Forest in Houston.
Now as cool as all that was this is the really cool part and the reason that I think that this particular solution only deals with the above 4 verses.  Going back to verse 4 and using the words Socrates, Pindar, Apelles, birch along with information that we already have from the pictures(i.e. the latitudes and longitudes) you can as BP put it, “wed one picture with one verse.”
Birch = 5 letters, picture 5 we know is Chicago goes with verse 12 which gives us Chicago Water Tower.
Apelles = 7 letters, picture 7 we are pretty sure from the longitude and latitude is New Orleans and verse 1 gives us New Orleans Spanish Plaza.
Socrates = 8 letters, picture 8 we are pretty sure from the longitude and latitude is Houston and verse 7 gives us Sam Houston National Forest. (sort of)
Pindar = 6 letters, by process of elimination picture 6 goes with verse 3 which gives us Ft. Wayne Lincoln Tower.
So to sum up.
Verse 1 goes with Picture 7 and give us a starting location of Spanish Plaza in New Orleans
Verse 3 goes with Picture 6 and gives us a starting location of Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne
Verse 7 goes with Picture 8 and gives us a starting location of Sam Houston National Forest in Houston.
Verse 12 goes with Picture 5 and gives us a starting location of the Water Tower in Chicago.
Just some further thoughts that might not lead to anything but are rattling around in my head so I will throw them out for your consideration.  Two of the verses (9 and 11) are all free verse, nothing rhymes but there are two additional verses that do follow the free verse, couplet pattern. The first comes right before the pictures and second right after the pictures.  It is possible that some information is hidden in these two extra verses.
Also if you like the idea of the number of the letters in a word indicating a picture(or a verse) then you might find this interesting.  There is only on significant instance of a one letter word in all of the verses(I know that there are various A’s in the verses but I said significant) and that is the v in verse 10.  In addition there is only one 12-letter word in all of the verses, remuneration.  I know that wonderstone’s is also 12 letters but I don’t count that one because you need to add the possessive s in order to get to 12.
digger7

I find it humorous that the 3 V’s you use to prove your theory are pretty much the 3 Vs that have definite tie ins to other locations…
V1 – Hermann Park, Houston TX
V3 – Boston MA, most likely around Copely Square
V7 – San Francisco (still leaning towards GGP)

you also start with the chicago example.
which you say is the connection to the water tower in the chicago image.
but then in your next example,
why does the anagram not point to an image.
I could understand your logic if each anagram pointed to an item in a picture.
Your anagrams dont hold up and they bring in radically new locations, that are unsubtantiated by other clues.
whereas the locations people have put forth for various verses and pictures are compliations of multiple clues supporting the theory.
If the anagrams resolved perfectly with a consistent method I would buy it but mostly I see somebody reaching for scrabble words with not enough letters.
This seems to me to be a case of making the clues fit your theories instead of  the correct method of fitting the theory to the clues.
Still if this method helps you find a casque I will be the first to say Amazing! Good Job.
I like the idea though,but I think at this point though you are reaching.

maltedfalcon

but then in your next example, why does the anagram not point to an image.

I’m assuming that when you get to a location(e.g. Lincoln Tower in Ft. Wayne) there will be something in the picture that confirms that you are in the right location.  I’m leaning toward the guy on the horse cuz there isn’t much else in that picture.  Yes, I realize that it is just an assumption but I will be going to Ft. Wayne to check it out sometime soon.
digger7

I really like antiquiter’s theory of this being Michigan, but that may be due to the fact that I live in Michigan- specifically right next to Grand Ledge. Ever since I started the hunt, I thought this might picture might be a reference to Michigan, as the rock that the flag is on top looks alot to be like Castle Rock in Saint Ignace. I am going to see if I can match any of the verses for the area, and see what I can come up with

Unknown

Unknown:
A friend of mine sees the following images in Image 6:
1. a hawk with the gem as its eye
2. an upside-down shield with a chevron
3. a cartoonish bloodhound that resembles Hannah-Barbara’s character “Droopy.”

Has your “friend” been drinking?

MrBackstop

As I look at the one-armed conquistador a few questions come to mind:
Why is just one arm showing?
Why does his helmet have a triangular shape to the top?
How come he is sitting on a pony instead of a horse?

well he was copying this, and if the painting was small maybe those were just difficult details
( if we are to believe the image on EU was the real painting)
then the StAug image was really a tiny painting and maybe it was just easier to paint that way….

Just a little rambling.  Isnt it looking more and more obvious that this P leads us to FL?  What more is needed?  The Palm Tree, the Spanish Conquistador (possibly Senor de Leon himself) & the re-occuring shape of the state itself.  I know, it isnt the EXACT outline of FL (that would be too easy) but saying the rock/mountain doesnt “resemble” the state is ludicrous.  Also, as pointed out by GPKing, the space to the right of the rock/mnt is of similar shape to FL & look at the cloud in the upper right of the P….yep, this too is quite similar to the outline of the state.
If this P does NOT lead us to FL, I will gladly eat my Cabasset.  Which leads me to something else I found….Sr. de Leon isnt wearing a Cabasset as I had first thought.  The Cabasset is the spanish styled armor helmet which conquistadors wore.  What the P shows is actually a Comb-Morion. (quite similar to the Cabasset but Mistaken by many to be a Spanish helmet, this style of Morion was actually designed and exported by the Italians the true Spanish Morion is the Cabasset).   Any Italians invade/conquer FL ?  ???  8)

Hey fox
I know that it’s possible to pick any city in the US and, if you try hard enough, you can make any of the verses fit.
After re-reading my posts, I can see some really big stretches of my imagination.  It was fun, though.
Here’s another real stretch.
The rock down in the lower right hand corner suggests something reflected.  I  photocopied the original picture and folded it in half.  Make sure that the edges meet perfectly. When held up to a very strong light, the tip of Ponce’s flag ends directly on the edge of the small bump in the lower right of the picture.
I know that this is not a real clue, but thought it was weird.

ok, no one yet has stated what i think the negative image is, so i’ll post my thoughts, and hope that this will bust it wide open.  If you take an outline of the negative space, i beleive the shape is the side view of a Buddha statue, possiblly the Medicine Budda or the Infinite Light Budda.  i cant figure out how to put a picture in here yet, but when i do, i’ll show ya what i mean.
todd

Okay, I’ll bite. Where is that?

I’ll be happy to share soon enough.  I’m in the process of asking for permission to dig.  That’s all I will share for now.

Got a response.  Will still need permission from the state parks and recreation department.  That will be the final hurdle.
The really old folks who care about the site are going to have a meeting and see if anyone remembers speaking with Byron in case he was told he would have to have someone to ask permission before digging.  More waiting.
Edit:  the thrill of adventure sure seems spoiled with asking permission.  Most likely, Preiss was covering his butt when someone official approached him with “hey, what the hell do you think you’re doing?”… I feel just like Caspar Milquetoast on a mission of great importance and everything is okay as long as I don’t track any dirt into the house and I have something good to snack on, prefferably chocolate for my wife.

erexere

I feel just like Caspar Milquetoast on a mission of great importance

It’s not that important. It’s just some ceramic casques buried in plexiglass boxes.  Keep it real, holmes.

bigmattyh

It’s not that important. It’s just some ceramic casques buried in plexiglass boxes.  Keep it real, holmes.

I was just saying how silly it is to jump through so many hoops for such a minor detail as the line “as for permission to dig”.  But I am a milktoast, since I do anything my wife tells me to do…
My main view is how it would help everyone here in finding another casque.

cw0909

if you get over there, some imgs of the line of site, side of rock would be great
im hoping a probe then dig can happen there

I believe you are saying a straight line from the island rock to the base of the flag pole on image 6 will go right through the dig site as shown here:

Here are a few pictures of that line-of-sight. As you can see, there are no current trees in the line.

Perhaps the FOY owners can tell us if any trees have been lost since 1982. If the tree we are looking for went down, the casque very likely went too. Although, the root ball of a palm tree is pretty compact. It would also be extremely helpful to know what picket fences were in existence on this lot in 82.

Here’s one more picture of the rock from the top. Just to complicate things, it looks like this may have been a flag pole base at one time as well.

Shehunter

Perhaps the FOY owners can tell us if any trees have been lost since 1982. If the tree we are looking for went down, the casque very likely went too. Although, the root ball of a palm tree is pretty compact. It would also be extremely helpful to know what picket fences were in existence on this lot in 82.

Hasn’t the FOY owner been as forthcoming as possible with ‘our’ many visits to their property? They’ve pinpointed the fences and such.

Xieish

Hasn’t the FOY owner been as forthcoming as possible with ‘our’ many visits to their property? They’ve pinpointed the fences and such.

To my knowledge, “we” have never ask them about this particular piece of property. All prior conversations dealt with the main FOY grounds. This FOY “first entrance” is a couple of blocks away.

Gotcha. Definitely worth a line of inquiry. Is this the first time this area’s been scouted? It’s been so long since I read through this thread.

whoa what a monkey wrench that is, im gonna think on that a minute or 2, LOL

maybe FOY will have some img, from the 80s from that area

What’s over by Prince of Peace? Hard to tell from Google and searching doesn’t seem to bring up a lot about that area.
Do you think the open foundations on the property could have anything related to salt limestone etc? That PoP labeled area seems removed enough from the rest of the grounds to intrigue.

wk

ok thanks. It all looks a bit too neat and tidy. Nice clouds in the first photo.

The mission grounds are pristine. I also took a 360 degree video of the area that begin and ends facing the one tall palm tree that was likely around 32 years ago. The street that dead-ends at these grounds in the video is Water Street (written in water). Sorry for the wind noise. A typical summer rain storm was brewing.

The Mission’s entrance is also on Ocean St or Ocean Ave, and it’s the first mission in the US. Very humble beginnings.
I have also seen the sign that shehunter posted and liked it for a different reason, I’ll see if I can dig up my notes. I’ve asked Shehunter to take a photo of this statue from the side, as I believe it may reveal itself to be our Ponce de Leon figure, head bowed, praying. From the side even his hand would match up with our saddled figure.
I
firmly
believe this casque is not in FOY park – the flag does not match the flag on FOY park (why would Preiss/JJP suddenly switch from Polaroids to “inspired by”) and the flag is a map of the path in the mission. In the other topic I talked about red herrings. We’re looking at one here.
edit: Shehunter – could you give me a spot on Google Maps where that palm photo was taken? I’m an awful visualizer.

wk

I like it. I think the banner could be scaled to go further so that the end is touching the trees SE of the cross. If you zoom in you can see the shadow of a large palm tree there. I looked at lots of photos but there does not seem to be any photos pointing in that direction. You would have to stand behind the cross.
There is an amazing fountain in the correct place on the banner too!
… but we may have trouble with the verse.

I checked out the area behind the cross as you suggested. There are several palm trees, but most are young trees. Here is a picture walking up to the cross:
And, here is one taken behind the cross from the south:

I also found this sign depicting the locations of all of the missions:
Here is a close-up picture. As you can see SELOY is a confirm for this property and not just the FOY property.

ok thanks. It all looks a bit too neat and tidy. Nice clouds in the first photo.

Xieish

I
firmly
believe this casque is not in FOY park – the flag does not match the flag on FOY park (why would Preiss/JJP suddenly switch from Polaroids to “inspired by”)

Xie-
I wish I could find the image…but wasn’t there a pic of Eg comparing his book to the map of the FOY grounds with the circle and square monument depiction on the map? Giving a Polaroid to an artist, the image becomes the artist’s rendition of that photo in his art. Technically, I guess you could say anything in the images could be “inspired by” (unless it was a direct copy of what was in the Polaroid). Check out the fairy/water pouring statue that is by Grant Park in Chicago. That doesn’t exactly match, but the undoubted, simple, resemblance is there. It’s not exact, but you still know that’s correct when you see it. (Yes, you could argue that is the feeling for that image because we already know the answers.) In that case, check out Lafayette Square in New Orleans. I’m not sure anyone will argue that the kid on the statue is not the clock-boy in image 7. (Here:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Lafay … a4ae9778ff
) Because of the art aspect, I don’t think we will see many
exact
matches from the clues in the images.

Most of the images have been significantly better matches, it’s also possible that you can see the sign along the route. The mission ground bumps property lines with FOY park, so this isn’t wild speculation or saying it’s in St Louis.
By deciding we have the right park with no FIRM evidence we close ourselves off to a lot. Can we deny the shape of the cove on this property, or the shape of the flag being a map of the path down to the cove/giant crucifix?
I think we should explore surrounding options at the very least. I know the idea of being off for 10 years is frustrating but it’s something that should be thought about before dismissing. Happy to have Shehunter willing to explore on site, it seems fairly easy/trivial to poke around there (compared to some of the other sites, I still would like someone in Montreal to take a photo for me but I don’t think we have anyone
) so no harm in doing so. Falsification… name of the game. Explore the Mission – if nothing turns up we focus back on FOY park with gusto.
edit: To expound on my thinking: While there are close matches that are not directly cut and pasted from real life photos, there are a LOT of verifiable Real Life Photos in these paintings. They all lead to the treasure ground, or are on the path to it. The guy on FOY park is not one of those, so I don’t want to lock that in as 100% for sure. It could be a trick, it could be that you can see the sign from somewhere on the Mission (or along the route, it may just start at the mission?), or it could be an instance where they used a non-photograph as a clue. Deciding on one without investigating though gets us nowhere.

See the red X in the picture below for where I was standing when I took the palm photo. As you can see, I was at the back of the property and behind the cross.
I am happy to take the photo you requested. (With family in the neighborhood, I am over there every weekend or so.)