AP – I understand frustration. You know it has to be there, just where??
Don’t give up, being there helps a lot!
wilhouse

Bummer!  Please don’t be discouraged by the probing.  I don’t think that a crushed casque would show up on that thing anyway.  After all, the verse is suppose to eventually help us find the X, not the probe.  It’s there AP, we know it is.

Just to let you know what has been going on in Milwaukee.
I had two days off work and spent both of them (over 12 hours) at Lake Park.
(It was cold and very muddy.)
The first day was spent probing around the cape-tree,the Lion pedestals and the bridge.
I dug under the Southern-foot-roots of the cape tree, but they were so close together,
I had to rely more on the probe.
(I found a professional soil probe on Ebay and bought new sharp points for it, too.)
I probed as deep as possible…up to 4 feet.  The only sounds were made by the
steel point hitting rock, concrete or roots…no sounds of plastic
I probed around every corner of the bridge and directly under the bridge.  No luck.
Anyone looking in that area will wonder what kind of insect or animal made all of
those holes!
On day-two I walked all along Lincoln Memorial Drive,
from the soccer field to WAY past the ravine trails.
This time I was looking for
any
tree that would have
any
letter on it.
Except for my “G” and “D”trees, I saw no other letters.
I went up and down both ravines again, looking for a letter on
ANY tree…
(Thank goodness for old work boots with deep treads.)
I probed around both “Girl Scout” trees, too.
The multi-trunk tree under the cape has to be significant,
or it would not be included in Image 10.  My photo of the
multi-trunk tree is very similar, but does not show any of the
“rings” that are so prominent in Image 10.
My multi-trunk tree is by the soccer field, not by the Lion Bridges.
Every time I re-read verse 8, it always leads me back to the
original “proud tall fifth”!  So I probed around it…again…
(even though I could not find any letter on it.)
These have been two very frustrating and disappointing days!
I may have to take a break to avoid giving up all together!
The “make or break” clue here is “the letter from the country
of Wonderstone’s hearth on the proud tall fifth”.  Without
that “letter” I feel like I’m just “jousting with windmills”.
AP

i know that is disappointing!! thank you so much for letting us know!  i can’t believe it’s not by the lion bridges!!!!!!!!!aaaaarrrgghh!
i had been forcing myself not to ask you about the weather up there, lol.

There was some discussion in mid-July last year about when, to what degree, and on what side LMD was widened. Was that ever resolved? Does it influence what we think of this photograph?

Forest,
I think we came to the conclusion that the curb on the west side of
Lincoln Memorial Drive stayed pretty much the same as before the
renovation in 2003.  What you see in the old photos, I believe, is still
there…Except that a concrete sidewalk was added (around 2003)
from LMD to the end of the South Lighthouse Ravine.
(over the area where the multi-trunk tree of 1940 stood.)
Is that how you see it?
AP
Looking at the “old photos” on the Webshots Album, there is one
of the PT5th and adjacent tree, taken in 2000.  There is still no
sidewalk, and you can see an area of “green grass” where the multi-trunk
tree should have been.

Very intriguing!! They do indeed look like birches in the photo, but they sure don’t now. I think we settled on “cottonwood” based on the leaves and bark, but I hope we were wrong. It is eye-opening to see 5 birches (?) next to a 5-trunk tree.
And that is some serious detective work you’re doing up there. Good job!

Now knowing that there was a multi-trunk tree here,
I took a closer look at the 1996 photo of the PT5th.
All this time, I thought that the debris in front of
the trail exit was just leaves….but now….
Does it look to you like the area in the yellow oval
could have been a recently removed tree stump?
If the multi-trunk tree was a “marker” to prove you
were in the right place, BP would have thought
that you couldn’t miss it!
AP

AP….that multi-trunker stands at almost the exact spot KLBT wanted to dig at….where the staircase ends and the small triangle of land is.  There is a concrete culvert-cap there now…and not much else. The concrete footbridge is visible from there–and the side of the bridge looks like a sideways A. The letter
could
be A–for
amethyst!

Shecrab,
I thought that KLBT was looking at Ravine Drive up by the Grand Staircase.
This photo is of the South Lighthouse Ravine.
Did I misunderstand?
AP

Ohhh…..MY BAD!!! I thought that WAS the Ravine by the Grand Staircase. I thought you could see the lighthouse because the trees weren’t as tall.  Ooops!!
Never mind then.

Unknown

Unknown:
I thought that KLBT was looking at Ravine Drive up by the Grand Staircase.

This was my understanding of what KLBT proposed as well.
You really are doing some great research up there AP.
And if any of those old sepia photos aren’t really clear they can be made sharper by taking them to a copy shop and having them make a color copy of them.  It costs a couple of bucks but really does make a huge difference if they are faded.

It’s hard to tell for certain with that photo, but I think that it could definitely be the remains of a tree that was recently removed. It especially looks like it on the left side.

Last weekend, I walked between each of the “counting trees” feeling the
ground for any sign of trees that have been removed.  I felt two areas
of depression…marked on this photo…We really need to see a photo from
the 1980’s!
AP

HAs everyone forgotten that the juggler’s items are a rebus for the name “Milwaukee?”  MILL-stone, WALKing stick, KEY.

maltedfalcon

Well yes,
The one that comes to mind right off was the Verse for Chicago,
Over L’s shoulder and the line about Congress made everybody sure, when the book first came out
that this verse had to do with Washington DC. Everyone I knew was sure that this meant behind the lincoln memorial in washington DC. I doubt the paring of these clues was un-intentional. I think he wrote it like that specifically to throw off the hunt.

That’s not a red herring.
A red herring is something that looks like a clue but is irrelevant.  “Congress” was definitely a clue; it was just misinterpreted.  (It was Congress Avenue he was referring to — not Congress proper.)
I agree with shecrab.  I don’t think BP put in any real red herrings; it’s just our interpretations thus far that are flawed.

I see what your saying, but if BP purposely put congress and a Sitting L in one verse to make you think WashingtonDC then
WashingtonDC is the red herring.

again I agree with Falcon.  I find it VERY hard to believe that BP innocently wrote out those clues for Chicago not even thinking about D.C.
red herring noun;  something intended to divert attention from the real problem or matter at hand; a misleading clue.
sounds fairly cut and dry to me…

I too look forward to hearing your thoughts.  Like I said before–
BP did like his trees!
The position you have placed your birch trees put them in the ravine just south of the parking lot and are before the Lion bridge and the compass.  (However, there are numerous smaller trail bridges there as there are in all of the ravines).  Also what birch trees you did find will stick out–there are so few in that park–due to some
forest blight
in the birch tree population. (FB–sorry pal…) The park used to have bunches.    I never felt that the verse was to be considered out of order–that is, I always took the verse to be a point by point verbal trail map, so to speak.  I’m very interested in your theory, rest, then post as soon as you can.

Greetings all.
I put this on on a separate thread due to what I found.
I am on site now using my pda/cell phone to enter this so ill be abreviated until I get home later today and do a better walkthru.
like al things this my theory.
I could be rite or wrong..
but I managed to fing the total of 5 birch trees. they were located in the sequence that the verse calls for and fit the directions that are given to travel also. I realized why he used ”birch”, there are so few of them and they scream out load visually hehe.
My / our I guess problem is after the 3 going west. (which makes 4 total) the mark which should be on the ”grand tall 5th” no longer exsists..
I found what was left of the 5th, it was felled, oblitering the marker. and the final location to the treasure…..no stump was visible to mark off of either unfortunatly.
I have the trails / bridge / paces / trees all GPS’d. ill need some time to overlay all this and composite it into photoshop.
ill prolly have it finnished by tomarrow..
the felled 5th is at
N 43(degrees) 03.994′
W 087(degrees) 52.282′
I hope this at least puts this to rest…
Shadowrunner

Excellent work shadow!  Looking forward to seeing it all.  BTW, if you see a guy with a soaking wet memory card lurking around, give him a smack for me..

boogieman

BTW, if you see a guy with a soaking wet memory card lurking around, give him a smack for me..

I’m having trouble seeing how…
The foot of the culvert
Below the bridge
Walk 100 paces
Southeast over rock and soil
…could get you anywhere other than the shore, but your location is almost due north of the lighthouse. The bridge is surely one of the Lion bridges, no? Can’t wait to see your take on the verse.

hi Forest_blight,
I am just posting the overlay for the trip today with the gps coords.. this is really quick and dirty ,my appologies. ill get to the explanation later tonight after i get some much needed sleep before i go to kendo or tomarrow during the day..i think i dynamically scalled the gps info correctly. ill look at it more later..
hope this helps more to come..
www.troll-werks.com

More searching of the area on LMD has brought this
multi-trunk tree to my attention.  I believe it is just
a confirmation marker rather than “the tree” because
there is no obvious letter on it.
http://community.webshots.com/album/560414582bTfTnE
If we want to account for the multi-trunk tree under
the cape in Image 10, this one is a good candidate.
The only problem is, it has no horizontal bars in the bark.
Can a tree outgrow that kind of marking? (or were they
ever really there, or are they just artistic license?)
The trunk configuration and number, the tree’s age and location,
all give a good indication that this may be the tree that was
photographed in 1981 and given to the artist to be worked
into the painting.
AP

Pine_Tree

By the way, TROHN WINS FOR BEST POST OF ALL TIME.
Pine

lol.  I vote for that post too.
Hi guys.  I’ve been on vacation, and just got back.  Pine Tree, I think Regulus is just Regulus.  If you click on his profile, you will see that he registered a year ago and has been posting on the Tweleve boards as well.  I am hoping that Regulus has seen the errors of his ways, but I would be a bit wary of posting possible solutions on the boards right now, for fear that a Tweleve hunter will run and get it first.
Shadowrunner, you have done a marvelous job, and welcome (back) to the hunt!

Hi everyone,
Just a update i recieved a book i had ordered today  “outdoor sculpture in Milwaukee”  it was written back in 95 and i got ahold of it, it shows all the sculture in the city from as far back as the late 1800’s including some that no longer exist. Unfortunatly nothing was in the book that would synch up to the verse.  the ISBN is 0-87020-276-6 for anyone interested in it.
wish i had something good to add…i am at a loss were to go now with this one, i was hoping for the golden goose here lol….
be safe

Egbert

but I would be a bit wary of posting possible solutions on the boards right now, for fear that a Tweleve hunter will run and get it first.

ouch…I am offended

Here’s another thought– Trees have root systems that are as wide and ‘bushy’ as the leafy bit…if anything, the roots would have made the soil a lot stronger, because a tree cannot thrive if it can’t get a foothold…  I think I may have mentioned this once before too, but after 26 years, the young birch would be much bigger, and the proud tall fifth larger still.  The Milwaukee poem says something a lot clearer than most of the other paintings too: a starting point, progressing along a pathway to an end point.  A lot of the other ‘landmarks’ are obscure little things that are well-known, but secluded in their own way– what Zinn’s buddy said to him while he was digging Cleveland was: “You could be digging back here with a wedding going on, and no one would know.”  I’ve been using that as my guide for characteristics shared by the burial locations.  Also, been doing a LOT of research on Wonderstone’s Hearth, and came up with this– Wonderstone is created by volcanic activity.  A hearth is the entrnace step to a fireplace.  So Wonderstone’s Hearth would imply a volcano (A pit of fire where wonderstone is formed).

There is the sculpture entitled “Compass” which is located on Brady St. overlooking
Lincoln Memorial Drive and Lake Michigan.  Just another thing to consider.
But it is so far from the target area…and it was not there in 1982
AP

hmmm I dont suppose there is 92 steps in that stairway over by the pedestrian bridge….

maltedfalcon

hmmm I dont suppose there is 92 steps in that stairway over by the pedestrian bridge….

No, I counted them yesterday there are only about 30-40.

i doubt BP would expect a hunter to ascend the grand staircase, then walk ALL THE WAY down to that compass, but ya never know.
I’m sticking with the FreeMasons symbol.
-regulus

I believe that the Compass sculpture was installed in 2005, along with the nearby Sentinel sculptures.
Andy

Greetings all,
I have been away for a extended period of time here, but wanted to check back in and see what is up and if someone might be able to point me to the current Milwaukee ideas. I had a chance to go back to the site this last weekend and go over the area with some new found friends and show them what i thought and what ideas they had in mind also.
I would appreciate any feedback on this .
thanks
Shadowrunner

Shadowrunner,
Welcome back!
Most of the up-to-date Milwaukee info would probably be found either
at the forum for “verse 8” or “image 10”.
AP

thanks for the help

Nice research Animal painter. Thanks for all the extra effort. I am enjoying your pictures and the further Lincoln Memorial research.
I think you guys are on the right track.

What I found, looking at photos from before reconstruction of LMD in 2000,
is good news.  At least from Aug. 1996 to June 2000, the area around the
“proud tall 5th” was not greatly changed from what is there now.
(I do not know if it was changed from 1982-1995.)
There was no paved walkway leading from the ravine trail out to the road until
some time after June 2000. The surrounding ground looks very similar back then
to the way it looks today.
This area was the most easily recognized from the earlier photos, because of the
presence of the “proud tall 5th” and its adjacent tree…right by the crosswalk .
A median has been added to LMD sometime after 2000, but it does not appear that
the land on the West side of LMD (by the “PT5th”) was removed to widen the road.
Here is a photo of the tall proud 5th taken in 1996
http://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a … 1184937944

Wow painter! Great research. How many other photos in that album can you scan and post?

Most of the photos in the albums are of the roadway itself.
This photo was the most recognizeable stretch of “trees”.
I scanned several other photos, but for some reason,
I cannot get this program to let me attach them…
That is why I resorted to posting on Tweleve and
redirecting to that URL.
If the “attaching problem” is not resolved, I will
find a way to post more photos elsewhere.
The most important info gleaned is the fact that our
target area seems to be rather “untouched”.
I noticed the diameter of the Tall Proud 5th appeared
to have grown substantially.  Do you think it is possible
that the box may actually now be
under
the tree?
AP

AP-
Take a look at the photo you posted,
look a few feet above the elbow of the tree,
on the north side –
is that not a girl scout marker??
Just above the sunspot reflecting through the leaves…

Trohn,
I have the original photo at home.
It will be a better resolution for zooming in
on that area.
Do you think that they would put a sign up
that high to prevent people from removing it?
When I first saw this photo, I was trying to
find any letter on the trunk of that tree.
It will be the finding of a letter on a tall tree
(whether it be in a photo or on an actual tree)
that will be the final and absolute “clincher”
for us.

There is a photo of the Girl Scout marker at the other end of the trail on my webshots page linked above. It was large, white, and obvious, maybe 8 feet off the ground (give or take), and several inches across. If there was a sign on “our” tree, I suspect it would look identical.

animal painter

Trohn,
I have the original photo at home.
It will be a better resolution for zooming in
on that area.
Do you think that they would put a sign up
that high to prevent people from removing it?
When I first saw this photo, I was trying to
find any letter on the trunk of that tree.
It will be the finding of a letter on a tall tree
(whether it be in a photo or on an actual tree)
that will be the final and absolute “clincher”
for us.

They would have put the sign lower, originally,
but with the tree obviously growing as it did,
it would not out of the realm of possibilities to be
that high then… depending on when it was attached.
edit:  There is definitely *SOMETHING* hexagonal attached that high.
You’ll most likely be able to determine if it is a marker from the original photo.
The diggers never had a posted photo of this tree looking up that high .

Tree bark grows out, not up, so the sign would stay at roughly the same height over the years.

That is not always true
there is a tree in my backyard that has the remains of a bird feeder, stuck in the bark of the tree, and its about 60 feet up
So I guess it depends on the tree.

I researched the history of the Girl Scout Insignia that is embedded
in the tree at the beginning of the Ravine trail.
It was designed in 1978.
I just spoke to the Girl Scout Rep in Milwaukee about the insignia and
its use on the Ravine trail on the lakefront.  She said that they
discontinued the sponsorship of the trail several years ago, and
would have removed any markers…(except for the one which is now
deep in the bark of a tree…the one that was photographed by
Stercox.)
AP

yes, but that would be the first tree you come to after the 100 paces down the trail, cuz you have to pass the compass.  the only way that tree would be the fifth is if you don’t pass the compass.  And also, none of those trees are birches.
-regulus

animal painter

I reasearched the history of the Girl Scout Insignia that is embedded
in the tree at the beginning of the Ravine trail.
It was designed in 1978.
I just spoke to the Girl Scout Rep in Milwaukee about the insignia and
its use on the Ravine trail on the lakefront.  She said that they
discontinued the sponsorship of the trail several years ago, and
would have removed any markers…(except for the one which is now
deep in the bark of a tree…the one that was photographed by
Stercox.)
AP

So they would have been posted in 1981/2.
And, most likely, would have been still posted in 1996.
But would probably be removed in present day.
So… the evidence exists only in the old photos.
Nice work.  See what you can glean form the original.

Describing a series of old (even in 1981) cottonwood trees as “young birches” is problematic, since cottonwoods look nothing like birches. Here is another idea – the descriptor “young” may not be a reference to age at all, but rather a particular species of birch,
Young’s birch
:
www.paghat.com/youngscatkins.html

see? weeping birch, that is the kind of birch tree across the street!!!!!!  But they weren’t there in 1981, however, we do know that they can still grow in the area!!!
-regulus

There’s a lot on Milwaukee and I haven’t caught up with it all, though I realise this is a tricky casque. I was interested to come across the Girl Scouts sign while browsing Stercox’s old albums (hadn’t seen that before). I emailed the Girl Scouts of Wisconsin Southeast to see if they knew anyone who remembered the trail, and whether there were any other trees marked in the same way as Stercox speculated. Here’s the reply FWIW. It’s probably familiar.
* * * * *
I was able to ask one of our lifetime volunteers.
As far as we know the tree no longer exists (but apparently it did at one point). We believe it was off Lincoln Memorial Drive at the first ravine in Lake Park.
The original trail began in Juneau Park at the George Washington Memorial located in the triangle formed by Lincoln Memorial Drive and Harbor Dr. It went past the duck lagoon and into McKinley Park. It crossed Lincoln Memorial Dr at the first stop light and went along the west side of the street to the first ravine in Lake Park. It followed to the end of the ravine and up the stairs circling to the left and crossed over the bridge guarded by sandstone lions. They followed trail signs to the 2nd ravine and continued down the path to lake area staying close to the edge of the bluff. They entered the 3rd ravine (behind a metal support stand) and went back up to the top of the bluff behind the pavilion. After crossing over the roadway on the footbridge there was a left turn before going down steps. A right turn at the bottom of the steps led to the 4th ravine. A right turn at the fork in the ravine went under the roadway to the end of the path. After that it took the sidewalk to Riverside Park.

WhteRabbit,
I have every trail brochure that the Girl Scouts printed for each year they
held the annual hike.
If you search the forums, you will see that the trail changed several times.
Only a few of the original metal signs remain…embedded into the trees.
We cannot be sure which signs existed in 1980-82, when BP buried the casque.
(or even if the trees he saw still exist…They have cut down many.)
AP

animal painter

WhteRabbit,
I have every trail brochure that the Girl Scouts printed for each year they held the annual hike.

Ah! OK then…
(Thanks AP)

The former Girl Scout leaders had their get-together.
The questions about the old GS Trail raised such interest,
that they decided to take the whole hike again
for nostalgia’s sake in June.
There was only one woman who had any photos of a
previous hike…but they were not by the ravine area
One thing they did say was..that where ever the trail
took a turn, they posted senior Girl Scout helpers there
to be sure that the others did not miss the turn.
One lady did say that they posted “helpers” near the
ravine-turn…(so the necessity of having permanent
markers on the trees seems not to have been essential.)
I am still waiting to go through the misc. stuff that is locked
in the closet at the Girl Scout Hqtrs. )
Signed…the Eternal Optimist.
AP

Fenix

What Youth deemed crystal, Age finds out was dew.
–
Robert Browning

“I wish I didn’t know now what I didn’t know then.”
—Bob Seger

sorry I don’t understand,
sorry for being secretive

regulus

I hope you all find the casque in Houston

y’all are coming to Houston to dig??? cool!!!
wilhouse

Egbert

“I wish I didn’t know now what I didn’t know then.”
—Bob Seger

“I hope I die before I get old”
–the who

“The Long and Winding Road”… The Beatles, 1970.  Are we showing our age here regulus?
The long and winding road
That leads to your door(casque)
Will never disappear
Ive seen that road before
It always leads me here
Lead me to your door
The wild and windy night
That the rain washed away
Has left a pool of tears
Crying for the day
Why leave me standing here
Let me know the way
Many times Ive been alone
And many times Ive cried
Any way youll never know
The many ways Ive tried
But still they lead me back
To the long winding road
You left me standing here
A long long time ago
Dont leave me waiting here
Lead me to your door
But still they lead me back
To the long winding road
You left me standing here
A long long time ago
Dont leave me waiting here
Lead me to your door
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah

Saturday we had snow…but today (Palm Sunday) was sunny, and in spite of the 35 mph winds,
I made a trip to the lakefront to go on a “birch search”….
Shadowrunner had found birches in the Girl Scout Ravine (aka Waterfall Ravine)
back in 2006. So I started there.
That ravine is most definitely “birchy”!  I saw two large birches growing on the
steep sides of the ravine, many pieces of birch trees on the ground,
(they could have broken off the two trees) and at least one broken small birch tree.
That ravine was called the “Girl Scout Ravine” because of the metal disc/sign
on the large tree at the East (lakeside) end of the trail leading through it.
I’m sorry to say that the “Girl Scout Tree” is no longer standing.  It looks like
it fell over…All that remains is the the root-ball/stump sticking up out of the ground.
The trunk must have been cut up and taken away.
To the North of the former Girl Scout Tree is one lone younger birch (6-8-inch diameter).
The only other
standing birch
that I could find was the one on the golf course.
Then there was the very large
fallen birch
in the woods at the edge of the golf course…
the one that Shadowrunner had found 5 years ago.  I still could not find its stump,
but I spent hours trying, using the soil probe .
I will sort photos taken today and make an album to share…and try to make a map of the
birches in the area.

This is the map of the birches I found on April 17 2011.
The locations are only approximate.
The Girl Scout Tree is also shown.

Unknown

Unknown:
But he reached the bridge by interpreting “compass” as “north point lighthouse”. That’s wordplay if ever I saw it.

I don’t think this can be considered trickery. It’s really straightforward–two words that are almost synonymous with the idea of compass. It doesn’t go any deeper than that. It doesn’t misdirect. It isn’t a rebus. If you had a compass in your hand and someone said, go to the north point, would you think they were trying to obfuscate? No. It’s very direct. Better yet, it’s very SIMPLE. Just the most obvious confirmation of a direction.

Step on nature
Cast on copper
Could that be a reference to the oval lake below?  It could be seen as a big footprint in the natural setting.
Cast, as you would do a fishing pole and the color of the lake is a coppery reddish brown.

More photos of the Girl Scout Ravine and Golf Course birches have been added to this album.
They are large photos, so you should be able to see a lot of detail.
I have written explanations under each photo.

(This is generally interpreted as a reference to Lincoln Memorial Drive, which forms part of the trail leading to the Grand Staircase and the bridges, and is “cast in copper” in the Lincoln Memorial penny.)

Hi, Slappy,
Sounds like you have your hands full !
Thank goodness for family in times of need…
I added a photo to the last Webshots album.
http://tinyurl.com/66gbfa
Tried to take it from exactly the same place
as the photographer did in 1940…to get the
same perspective on all of the trees.
(He must have had a professional wide-angle lens.)
After attempting to determine where the missing
trees were by photo and depressions, I “counted”
again and probed by all of the areas that could
possibly be along LMD…then probed again by the
Lions on the bridge.
Talked to the park manager about tree removal.
She has been with the park since 1996…and has
no info about the 1940’s multi-trunk tree.
It’s not for lack of trying that this casque is not found.
AP

hi guys, i’m back
family emergencies and life changes happening here, so not going to have much time to spend on the hunt.  i’m keeping an 18 month old child  while my sister recuperates, and not sure how my animals will accept such a small human, so i will  have to watch her all the time.
i know i’m behind and haven’t read everything, but AP i am impressed with your research!  wishing you all the luck!

Sonoran

We also took 100 paces from the second Lion Bridge. About 80 paces put us at the curb to Lincoln Memorial Drive.

The other side of the road seem a likely spot to get to after 100 paces then, as people have considered before.
How about this for a radical circuit.
Mill
Walk
Key
Start at the
Mi
tche
ll
Mansion and head towards the Art Museum (as explained
here
). Take a
walk
round Lake Park, then head back down the Memorial drive again to Juneau Park near the the Art Museum, and end up at the
key of Solomon
– tall, proud, letters all over him.
Solomon Juneau, the founder of Milwaukee.
http://www.uwgb.edu/wisfrench/library/h … /index.htm
As for the three you pass heading West…could be anything. Parks, perhaps. Start off at Lake Park, the first, pass North Point Park, Back Bay Park and McKinley Park, and stop at the fifth park – Juneau.

WhiteRabbit,
I know that I have looked at other
things to count…bridges, trees, statues..
The problem with counting parks
is that it is hard to call a park “proud and tall”.

Hmm, yeah, that’s a tricky line…I was thinking of the Juneau statue as proud and tall, and Juneau as the fifth (park?)
(Also wondering about “see a letter” as “lo
m
” (from Ger
m
any) in the “Solomon” inscription. It’s all pretty vague though – just brainstorming really. I’ll probably do a bit more research on Juneau – I’m not sure where he is yet.)

Another 3 hours at Lake Park today…and I spent them all looking at
“southern feet”. (There are so many to choose from.)
I started by standing right under the South Ravine Bridge,
directly at the center of the southern base…or “foot of the bridge”…
you know…the part that it actually “stands” on…
The limestone facacdes were falling off and lying around…pieces of the
bridge were actually on the ground…
I dug a hole 2 feet deep in the clay (puff…pant…) and hit rock.
Then I dug at the pediment nearest the side of the cape-tree
It was impossible to get more than a few inches down before hitting rock.
Then I went up to the southern-most  lion base.
What did I see hanging on it?
It was a locust shell…It had to be a
sign
!
So I dug right under the locust…and hit concrete…
At least it was a beautiful day…I talked to one man on a “scooter”.
He has lived on Locust St. all his life…In 1947, when he was 10 years
old, he said he remembered that the lions were sprayed golden yellow…!
He said  they sprayed them every year for a while.  Interesting….

Unknown

Unknown:
We may just have to take our ground spikes {probes} to all of the other birches just in case.

Hi Fox,
they could be, but the big one that was cut was by far the largest of them all..
anything is possible…
btw
what is this?? i am curious hehe
be safe

Unknown

Unknown:
Hey Pine–
I remember when we were there digging, you went scouting about over by the soccer fields.  I thought that you had mentioned seeing another Girl Scout marker over that way?? Yes??  Was I hallucinating that you reported that?? Wishful thinking??  The Soccer field would be below that birch tree line in the “Parking lot Ravine”  that Shadow has proposed.  Although moving down in that direction and using Shadow’s current theory, we’ve already used up our “pass three, staying west” and our “Walk 100 paces SE…” which does not allow us to get down into the soccer field.
I have sent off an e mail to the Girl Scouts of Milwaukee to see if they have any historical information about the markers and where they were at the park.  Will report back, when they respond.

Stercox wrote:
Yep, there is one GS marker on a tree at the soccer fields, just at the base of the Parking Lot Ravine.  Referencing Shadowrunner’s website map, it’s located approximately at the lower (Eastern) end of his block labelled “BIRCHYNG”.  The downside is that this tree is within the treeline, not in the field, which means that its entire Southern quadrant is filled with other (typically smaller) tree trunks.  It’s totally undiggable.  In 1982 was it open?  Don’t know.  Any pictures the GS have may help.
Pine

Shadowrunner

Hi Fox,
btw
what is this?? i am curious hehe

Because it is not easy to dig in dirt that has had roots growing for 20 years, we have taken to using a metal rod with a point on it and a handle (typically purchased at Home Depot in the sprinkler area) to “poke around” in the dirt looking for the casque.  That is the spike Fox refers to.
wilhouse

AHH!
of course…I am a lumberhead at times …
thanks foe enlightening me
Shadowrunner

Shadow–
I saw a birch on our recon there the first time back in March.  It was at the edge of what I have always termed Ravine 1, at the south boundry of the golf course.  I see that you have two markers on your map both birches, one is for a standing birch which you have shown the leaf, the trunk and the canopy for  and the other is the cut down birch.  I cannot tell from your pictures if you saw something different from what I saw.  Is this one of the trees you saw?  Is it the one currently standing or could it be the cut birch??
http://community.webshots.com/photo/548906299/2586477160064740493Ontwer

Shadowrunner

of course…I am a lumberhead at times …

hehehehe..  If you are a lumberhead, I think everyone on these boards (sans Egbert) wants to be a lumberhead too.  If finding a casque makes you a lumberhead……so be it.

Hey Pine–
I remember when we were there digging, you went scouting about over by the soccer fields.  I thought that you had mentioned seeing another Girl Scout marker over that way?? Yes??  Was I hallucinating that you reported that?? Wishful thinking??  The Soccer field would be below that birch tree line in the “Parking lot Ravine”  that Shadow has proposed.  Although moving down in that direction and using Shadow’s current theory, we’ve already used up our
“pass three, staying west”
and our
“Walk 100 paces SE…”
which does not allow us to get down into the soccer field.
I have sent off an e mail to the Girl Scouts of Milwaukee to see if they have any historical information about the markers and where they were at the park.  Will report back, when they respond.

hey there Stercox,
Yes that tree is the one  i marked. the other one is the cut one.. hope that helps
be safe

I thought that the compass was the compass in the concrete that shadowrunner took a picture, so why is everyone saying the north point
lighthouse is the compass? and the verse says
ASCEND THE 92 STEPS AFTER CLIMBING THE GRAND 200
if         the grand staircase only has 92 steps then why does it say grand 200, and it says ascend the 92 steps “AFTER” climbing the grand 200
(staircase)
someone please explain what this all means.

regulus – detailed explanations for these questions are already in the forum. In brief, the actual compass isn’t near the area pointed to by the rest of the clues. “Pointing north” (North Point) is what a compass does; it’s the clever sort of wordplay one finds in riddles like this. The same way “cast in copper” refers to Lincoln Memorial Drive. The Lincoln Memorial is cast in copper on every penny minted since 1959.
“Grand 200” refers (we think!) to the “CC” shaped portion of the Grand Stair, the whole of which is comprised of exactly 92 steps. The “Grand 200” and the 92 steps are one and the same.

but is says ascend the 92 steps AFTER climbing the grand 200

Shadowrunner where in the park is the compass rose, that you took a picture of? is it near the grand staircase?

Uh, Forest ol’ buddy….
I think you’re falling for a joke.
One of us “regulars” must have read the “regulus” postings over at ATT and decided to post this stuff here under that handle.  They’re even mimicking the crazy/serious writing style that the real “regulus” uses, and doing pretty well, too.
I only post as myself, but I’ve considered creating an alter ego for entertainment purposes, and posting things that are utterly at odds with what I really think — and the nuttier the better.  This was a great opportunity for that, and somebody beat me to it.  Maybe I can still do it, and I’ll call myself “irregulus”.
Anyway, so who is this?  Fess up.  Wilhouse, Egg, Johann?
Pine

Fantastic work SR.  Given what we have today, I dont think reverse engineering the way you did is wrong.  Yes, the birch trees are the most important pieces to this puzzle….and you may have located them.
One oddball suggestion.  Since the “order of the walk” seems to be out of order from the book, is there any way that any of the other trees {besides the huge cut tree} be the “tall 5th” ?  We may just have to take our ground spikes {probes} to all of the other birches just in case.
We are close guys….lets not give up….

Pine_Tree

Uh, Forest ol’ buddy….
I only post as myself, but I’ve considered creating an alter ego for entertainment purposes, and posting things that are utterly at odds with what I really think — and the nuttier the better.  This was a great opportunity for that, and somebody beat me to it.  Maybe I can still do it, and I’ll call myself “irregulus”.
Anyway, so who is this?  Fess up.  Wilhouse, Egg, Johann?
Pine

If that were the case in my instance, would my alter ego make sense and be helpful?

i thought about it also, but would have probably gotten into arguments with myself…and lost. my name would have been “plain ketsup” because that seems to be what i’m doing most of the time.

Trohn, you could be like George from Seinfeld, do everything opposite and you’ll be OK.  LOL
Uh.. Pine, how would you know about this joke?  To quote a clever ole chap(the name escapes me), “Who ever smelt it, dealt it”.

this IS regulus, am i not allowed to participate in this hunt anymore? or this forum?

Ha! Joke’s on you, Pine. Now you’ll always wonder if regulus is really me!
Picking on ol’ Forest, geez…
boogie – I always heard it as “The smeller is the feller,” but I like your version better.

i thought I was forgiven, i realize how stupid I was to say i found it, and i am sorry, if you don’t want me here tell the ADMIN, but i am sorry and i am just asking simple questions.
I wish someone would answer them

“regulus”,
Of course you’re allowed to participate.  Everyone’s allowed to participate.  Absolutely none of us (except Mark) have any power whatsoever to stop anybody from doing anything.
So carry on with the alter-ego stuff.  I’ve decided to try it myself.  Have fun.
Pi… ur, irregulus

but will someone answer my questions please?

do i have to change my name or start another profile to get respect or answers?

regulus – if you’ll scroll back a little, you’ll find that I did answer your questions. I’ll gladly supply more details if needed. Sorry for the snarkiness.

Shadowrunner/forest-blight where in the park is the compass rose, that you took a picture of? is it near the grand staircase?
u know the compass in the concrete?

regulus

i thought I was forgiven, i realize how stupid I was to say i found it, and i am sorry,

Being stupid is normal around here!  That ain’t the problem.  BTW, who forgave you?  I think you need to post a real
confirmer
and get some “atta boys” before anyone forgets.
“Hey, I found a casque fishing in the East River off Manhattan.  I would post pics but I brought the wrong camera under water and they got ruined”…..  Retardulus

regulus – the compass you refer to is not in the park, but it is close. Just south of it, if I’m right, but too far away from the other material to be “our” compass:

thank you Forest-Blight hoping to go to milwaukee soon.

hey Reg…there are others who have visited the site as well.  You may want to arrange some time for everyone to meet up together and hash this thing out.  The more legs and eyes on the ground the better.
as a not too long ago post by SR explains…I think that focusing on the 4 or 5 birch trees he has located would be our best approach now, until another confirmer can be found concretely.
its only a matter of time before we find this casque.

Recon to your heart’s content, but I cannot stress enough the importance of working with the park management when it comes time for shovel to hit earth.

so true indeed FB!
have to follow the correct procedure or this casque will be lost forever…

I wonder if the lightposts are even active? just for look?  I wasn’t at the park at night.

I tried to follow Reg’s description using local.live.com
Let me to show my pics…
Reg, the tall fifth is right? Is the only different lamppost (is a lamp? or not?) that i can see in the area…
I hope it can be useful to planning the dig…

I just follow your description…
I would like to be there when you will go for it, but i’m not in USA.
Well, i’ll like your photos and detailed description of trip

Forest,
Any ground on the West side of Lincoln Memorial Drive would probably be
as hard to dig in.  25 years of compaction, makes things like concrete.
(I know this from 35 years of gardening in Wisconsin dirt/clay!)
I kept trying to envision what the site looked like 25 years ago.
I saw a low stone wall at the edge of the grassy area that would have
been there.  But the trees we have been looking at would also have been
there…out in the open…very visible…not “lost” in the wooded area.
Unless someone is keen on trying to rent a GPR, I do not see digging again
as a viable idea.  (Now if the monetary incentive were as great as some of
Mr. Stadther’s jewels, that would change things!)
Just for kicks, I am going to the library to see if there are any books that can
help me identify the trees in the area.
One thought concerning the verse…It said “Pass the compass and reach the
foot of the culvert.”  The South Lion Bridge is “past” the lighthouse.  If you
follow the path from under that bridge, it brings you out RIGHT AT the
“tall proud 5th”.  The North Lion Bridge, is “before” the lighthouse.  It is
the path under that bridge that brings you out far from the trees in question,
so that you would have to walk to get to them.  Maybe this is splitting hairs
about the word “pass”.
Another thing that may be significant…the 100 paces.  It could mean 100 “steps”,
which bring you out on the West side of Lincoln Memorial Dr.  But the definition
of a “pace” is 30 inches.  That may take you East of Lincoln Dr.  I walked it off
both ways.  If you end up on the East side of Lincoln Dr., the clumps of trees
that you would have to count would be on the “East” of you…and the verse
says to “stay West”.  That is why I discarded the trees and lampposts on the
East side of Lincoln Drive.
AP

Hey painter, that’s a familiar spot!
It is indeed possible that it was deeper than we dug, but the digging was exceedingly difficult beyond 1.5 feet, which was about as deep as we got. Lots of stones and huge roots. Even a strong person with a post-hole digger 25 years ago would have had an impossible time of it.
Reg – did we ever see proof that there is a “G” on the lamp posts? If not, then I would say there is zero reason to be digging around a lamp. Even if there were a prominent “G” on every one of them, I would still hesitate before risking my life like that.

there are lampposts on the west side of LMD also.  However none of them have the G, (freemasons symbol).  Except for the one which is taller than all the others way down LMD.
The other lampposts that have the G are the ones up by the restaurant and by the grand staircase.  You’re either gonna have to take my word for it, or Animal Painter can take a look.
Besides, Eljayo said that a lot of the wires would be covered.
-regulus

Here is the explanation… (regulus logic)
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/http://test.quest4treasure.co.uk/phpbb3/viewtopic.php?p=52085#p52085

forest_blight

iMy guess is that the road was widened only on the lake side, and that the lampposts on that
side were simply moved further over as the road was widened. So even if one of the lamps
has our “G” it may not be where it was in 1981.

Forest,
I took one more drive to LMD today (Sunday). My husband came along to look at the road and
landmarks, to see how things had changed from his earlier memories of the area.
He says that most of the “lake side” (right) of the road is probably in the same location as before
the reconstruction, because the Bradford Beach building is in the same place as 50 years ago…
(You can see the building on the right side of the roadway.)..as are some other lakeside landmarks.
One of the newspaper articles said that 43 trees were lost to reconstruction.  That’s a lot of trees!
Until I can find photos of the area between 1980 and 1999, we won’t be sure of the extent of the change.
Let us not give up hope until we get some kind of confirmation.
AP

yes that one is taller than the rest down there, and it has a stadium light, (a bunch of lights on it) not just one like the others.  The other lampposts on LMD have no masonic G’s on them.  Except for the ones in that parking lot.  The one right after the 4th birch is the taller one.

Regulus,
Yes, I did find the lamppost with the masonic “G” on it.
It was in the parking lot of the North Point Snack Bar.
Every lamppost in that parking lot had the same “G” on it.
They appeared to be original from several decades before
the reconstruction.
AP

If someone wants to follow this link and source,
it may contain useful photos…
http://collections.lib.uwm.edu/cdm4/ite … =99&REC=19
Good Luck.
WHIW… (1) I like the ‘G’
(2) I think BP meant a tree as being the tall fifth

The trees near the ravine are far…too far away from the lamppost.

Regulus,
The lampposts that have the “G” on them are located around the
parking lot perimeter of the snack bar.  They are of equal height and
have one square-box-shaped light at the top.  There is one
stadium-type light nearby…It is a cedar utility post with metal boxes
around the base to connect to underground cables.
The Milwaukee Sheriffs have a mobile unit (trailer) plugged into it.
(They keep a presence on the lakefront to be ready for trouble.)
I am not convinced of the “tall proud 5th” being a lamppost.
The previous 1st through 4th seemed to be trees.  Why would the
5th be a lamppost?
AP

If all the lampposts in the area have the same “G” on them, why are we singling out that one in particular? And why oh why is it a “proud, tall fifth”?? It doesn’t make any sense.

G has to be the letter, because the Painting is for Germany, wonderstone refers to the jewel, and hearth means home, it’s home is Germany, and the letter from the country is G.  Perhaps there’s a tree with a G.
What if BP buried the casque only a small distance down?  Above the cables?
-regulus

do these lampposts even light up at night?

however, what are the odds of there being a G on the lightposts, and not being the answer.  Very coincidental.  Hopefully it’s not.
-regulus

and of course i’ll call a digging hotline, like i did last time, they can tell me about the light, what if they could turn that one off?  If they even are working lamps.

animal painter

Regulus,
I am not convinced of the “tall proud 5th” being a lamppost.
The previous 1st through 4th seemed to be trees.  Why would the
5th be a lamppost?
AP

Rethinking the verse and images…
I saw google earth images and it seem that our big tree is in fact the fifth tree (very tall by the way)…
So… I remember a previous thread about the image in the cape. It’s a close match of the tall tree (considering the distance).
If you separe the verse like this:
Pass three, staying west
You’ll see a letter from the country
Of wonderstone’s hearth.
On a proud, tall fifth
At its southern foot
The treasure waits.
…the letter isn’t necessarily on the tree, is just a confirmer that you will see a letter (The G in the lamppost as we hope) in your way.
Is possible to find any pic of this tree matching the image below the cape?

there’s something to think about…
but it doesn’t make much sense, On a proud tall fifth, at it’s southern foot.

when i dug at the base of that tree, i did find a white piece of glass, but it was only a small chip.  Also the metal detector detected something, but I thought the key was only ceramic?
I only dug down a foot and a half.
So AP?  You up for digging at the base of a tree?
-regulus

regulus

there’s something to think about…
but it doesn’t make much sense, On a proud tall fifth, at it’s southern foot.

On a proud tall (birch) fifth, at it’s southern foot.

regulus

when i dug at the base of that tree, i did find a white piece of glass, but it was only a small chip.  Also the metal detector detected something, but I thought the key was only ceramic?
I only dug down a foot and a half.
So AP?  You up for digging at the base of a tree?
-regulus

The key have a metal core… But I think a really good tool here is the GP Radar…

regulus

however, what are the odds of there being a G on the lightposts, and not being the answer.  Very coincidental.  Hopefully it’s not.
-regulus

There was a discussion almost two years ago concerning the 100 paces below the bridge.
At the top of the path was a sign indicating the existence of a Girl Scout Trail.  This trail,
was marked in parts with a wooden “G”.  I believe that it was more than a mile or two.
The thought, at the bottom of the culvert, was that the Girl Scout Trail sign, on or near the
Proud Tall Fifth became absent between 1981 and  2004.  The evidence of it existing at all
can be seen in other parts of the trail.
You can probably find the threads on it looking back to May 2005.  (I think)
edit:  see the link
http://home.wi.rr.com/phunter1/040515La … dWalk.html
It talks about bird watching in Girl Scout Ravine
edit 2:
http://search.isp.netscape.com/nsisp/re … hotos.html
some very nice photos, not too usefull though

hmmm…  well Trohn, that would make sense also, it would definitely be more visible than the masonic G.
But Eljayo, what I meant was, ON A proud tall fifth birch.  What does the ON A refer to if not the G.
-regulus

If GPR is the best method, wouldn’t it just pick up signals from the large branches?  What if the branches are now covering the casque?
Animal Painter, didn’t you say that you had a six foot rod to probe the ground with?  I brought one along with me as well when I went, but it wasn’t very long.

regulus

hmmm…  well Trohn, that would make sense also, it would definitely be more visible than the masonic G.
But Eljayo, what I meant was, ON A proud tall fifth birch.  What does the ON A refer to if not the G.
-regulus

I see what you mean…

regulus

If GPR is the best method, wouldn’t it just pick up signals from the large branches?  What if the branches are now covering the casque?
Animal Painter, didn’t you say that you had a six foot rod to probe the ground with?  I brought one along with me as well when I went, but it wasn’t very long.   :bang)

GPR produce continuous images (cross section) and no matter what is above (or below) the casque

I took the photo of the “Tall Proud 5th” from 1996 and
zoomed in to focus on the tree trunk.
Cropping the “cape” on image #10 and turning it to the
same angle, I see a similarity in shape and vertical bark
pattern.
Remember, this photo is of the tree 14 years after BP
buried his box. The younger tree bark would have had
an even smoother appearance.
The bark today is much older and more deeply creviced.
http://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a … 1185151174
http://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a … 1185151304
AP

animal painter

I took the photo of the “Tall Proud 5th” from 1996 and
zoomed in to focus on the tree trunk.
Cropping the “cape” on image #10 and turning it to the
same angle, I see a similarity in shape and vertical bark
pattern.
Remember, this photo is of the tree 14 years after BP
buried his box. The younger tree bark would have had
an even smoother appearance.
The bark today is much older and more deeply creviced.
http://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a … 1185151174
http://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a … 1185151304
AP

Really is a match… Even look like a foot… and this “foot” is in south side of the tree.
I can’t figure out the level of damage done by tree’s roots in the casque

That is a very convincing idea AP.  I like it!
Maybe “birch” just means tree, like others have suggested.  Maybe he meant something far more complicated than an actual birch tree. But I doubt it.  We should look into it nonetheless.
Anyone notice that this verse is very much like directions?  It is so much more ya know… it’s not as cryptic as the others.
-regulus

regulus

yes, but that would be the first tree you come to after the 100 paces down the trail, cuz you have to pass the compass.  the only way that tree would be the fifth is if you don’t pass the compass.  And also, none of those trees are birches.
-regulus

It has been weeks since I was last able to get to Lake Park.
But yesterday I spent 3 hours searching, and retracing steps
from start to “finish”.
I looked longingly at my beloved “G-tree”, wishing that we still
had the ability to ask if a solution were correct but unattainable.
I dug by the soccer-field-Girl-Scout-tree, (After using the metal-detector
and getting a definite reading…I found a buried torsion bar.)
The dragon flies were swarming by every bush and tree.
Many probings and diggings later, I left empty-handed….again.
AP
G Tree now…

Hey AP, does that golf tee spot have a number?  Usually there are 18 holes on a course.  I was wondering if those red balls are on the
fifth
hole..
Boogie

http://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a … 1185802129
Here I am standing on the edge of the
Lake Park golf course by a place where
a very large stump was ground out.
(See the two red balls in the grass?)
It was not very recently done.
(Maybe this is why there was no
stump near the cut birch)
There is a “path” that leads away
from the stump headed toward
the woods…and the cut birch.
It appears to me that a tree trunk
was dragged in that direction.
The path ends before it gets to the
tree line, so it does not lead directly
to the cut-birch. (Which is about 40 ft.
away from the ground out stump)
If this is the place the TP5th stood when
BP buried his box, it would have been
much easier for him to not be seen, rather than
right on LMD.
I will post more pictures on Webshots.
AP
(I guess I have to learn how to embed photos)

Forest,
I would have been so-fast-down-in-that-hole!!!!
It did cross my mind that if they had dug a bit
closer to the Lion, they may have saved me a
lot of digging!
I need another 8-hour day to be able dig around…
AP

I was unable to get to Lake Park this weekend for any
“searching”…but did get there Sunday evening…just as
the light was fading.
The crews had been working this weekend at “pruning”
the North Lighthouse Ravine, just like they cleared out
the South Ravine.
It was not as much of a shock…as I had expected it.
It probably does not make any difference to the finding
of the casque, but I thought you might want to see
what is going on here.
Included are a couple photos of the digging by the
Lion Bridge…They are putting in drainage pipes.
Here is the link:
http://tinyurl.com/5n6x9p
AP

Great pictures, thank you painter!
But’s what’s this I see in one of your photographs…?

animal painter

It did cross my mind that if they had dug a bit
closer to the Lion, they may have saved me a
lot of digging!

At its southern foot
…..Go for it AP.  Has to be.  I just wish I can make sense out of the
tall fifth
.
On a proud
makes good sense for the lion and his feet.  Tall fifth-tall fifth-tall fifth?  If it is by the proud lion, i would think that the
fifth
has something to do with him.  How many toes does it have?
FB, that’s crazy.

Milwaukee is still up for grabs?  I’ve been away too long and am out of touch.  Has anyone just tried to use wire probes?  I can’t imagine the author would bury something where he may hit a power line, and I’m sure the park will require a call to Mr Dig or whatever the local equivilent is, before digging next to a lamp post.

I do like the idea of proud = pride = lions. That’s clever.

Yesterday I attended a presentation by a retired
Milwaukee County Parks Landscape Architect.
She worked with the parks since 1984, and
wrote a book about the Milwaukee Parks.
I was able to talk to her about the Lannon stone
retaining walls on LMD.  She said that those walls
have been holding back the bluffs for a LONG time,
certainly before 1980. (This does not agree with the
info from the park manager a year ago.)
I guess that answers the question about the “G” tree.
While there, I bought a booklet entitled “Lake Park Trees”.
It has walking tours with maps photos and descriptions of
the trees in the park…including Champion Trees.
The one multi-trunk tree that was removed last year
(by the South Lion Bridge) was a Champion Pear tree.
That’s about it for  useful information gleaned.
AP

champion=proud tall
????
-regulus

You can go to Lake Park one day..and then the next day…it has been changed!
A “path” of large chunks of limestone laid on landscape fabric, appeared almost
overnight…by the Girl Scout Marker Tree by the South Lion Bridge.  I have no idea
what it is for.  There are also stakes and spray paint marks by the Lion Bridge that
indicate there will be digging soon.  Maybe the path will be for
heavy machinery to drive over to get to the site.
(Again…photos are posted at the Webshots link below)
http://tinyurl.com/68xb56
AP

Again keep the construction crews abreast of what we know. They obviously do not want you digging around while they work but they may do much more agressive digging for the casque doing their work then you could do. If all of their digging does not turn up the casque then this strenthens the idea that the casque got intoomed in the retaining wall.
It may or may not be helpful to ask the construction crew if they know anything about the retaining wall or cut down trees.
Oftren times arborists take care of trees in the park. The park may have the name of an arborist that may be worth inquireing about cut trees in the area of the casque.

regulus

I am sorry but, I would like to find it myself.  I hope you all find the casque in Houston.  Good Luck.
-regulus

Well, well.  Mr. Fox, what do you make of this?

Reg, I am still scratching my head on all of this hush-hush attitude.
Can you honestly tell me and the rest of us that you and you alone came upon this solution….with out ANYTHING posted on these boards?  As we have stated time and time again around here, we really dont care who comes up with the casque…as long as they are found.  The treasure really isnt worth all that much anymore..we just revel in the find.
I am by no means discounting your theory.  If you are correct, great.  We can knock another casque off of the list.  But why all of the secrecy?

Because I would like to find it myself,
Yes I did get A LOT of help on these boards,
but I found the exact place, where it is buried, on my own, I will say that it is far away from the dig back in May.
I am sorry but, I would like to find it myself.  I hope you all find the casque in Houston.  Good Luck.
-regulus

The lions may begin to look alike.
Two different lions were sculpted…and 4 of each were made.
Here is a link to the album:
http://community.webshots.com/album/579 … ty&start=0

I was able to get to the Milwaukee Lake Front on April Fools Day.
It was appropriate…in that the park no longer looks anything like
it did when BP hid the casque.
The stump which had similarity to the cape tree is all but decomposed
and I dug a deep hole on the south side of it.
The multi-trunk tree is cut down to 2 trunks. Thank goodness for old photos.
Here is a link to the album I put up with more recent photos of Lake Park.
http://community.webshots.com/album/579 … =community

animal painter

I was able to get to the Milwaukee Lake Front on April Fools Day.

You missed a trick there.
Thanks for the pics! And next time, I want lions. Lots of lions.  😉

WhiteRabbit,
I will give you more lions
soon…old and new
AP

I received the copy of the Girl Scout Trail Map booklet today from the
Lake Park Friends.
It is not very precise in its details, but it does give one very interesting
piece of information…the direction which the scouts were to take on
the trail.
Apparently, they were to enter the South Ravine Trail from the
EAST
end
along Lincoln Memorial Drive!  That explains why the metal trail marker is on
a tree that is
yards
from the West end of the South Ravine trail…It was because
the scouts saw the marker
AFTER
they exited
the ravine on the West end.
It directed them to circle back to the South Lion Bridge so they could cross it.
This makes me think that there is a good possibility that a marker of some sort
was on one of the trees at the
EAST
end of the South Ravine on Lincoln Memorial Drive.
Otherwise, how would the scouts have known to go left at the correct ravine?
One thing is puzzling.  There is no mention made of the other Girl Scout ravine
off the parking lot by the Pavilion…The map does not show it nor do the instructions
lead them to look for it….hmmm.
I have tried all week to contact the historian at the Milwaukee Area Girl Scout office.
She has been out of town.  So today, I went there in person to see if I could find
anyone else with access to their archives.  The history material is locked up in a
closet…and I must wait for the historian to return….What are a few more days?
The copies of the pertinent pages of the booklet are at Webshots:
http://tinyurl.com/6nn5qd
What do you think?
AP

That’s the one.  I know it’s disappointing, but I think his interpretation of the verse makes the most sense out of all that have been offered here.  It’s consistent, clear, and doesn’t require any obscure knowledge or twisted interpretations of words.
Basically, the interpretation says, “The casque is buried at the southern foot of a tall, proud birch tree — specifically, the fifth one you’ll see when going west from this landmark.”  I think that’s much more along the lines of what BP intended when he created this puzzle.  Shame that so much of the landscape has changed since he did it.

bigmatty,
The birches I referred to in the previous post, were the same birches
that Shadowrunner referred to in his post long ago.
I actually printed off his 10-page website from Aug. 2006 (which no longer exists).
If it would not be considered unethical, I could scan in the pages and put them up.
His idea was to go back to the Girl Scout Ravine (aka Waterfall Ravine) just off the
parking lot at the top of the “Grand 200” stairs…to find birches.
That ravine was totally renovated in the last couple years…with the waterfall
and bridges being rebuilt.
It was difficult, if not impossible, to make the verse lead us back there after
passing the “compass”, but it was an area with birches in 2006.
I still feel that the verse led us in a big circle…from the grand 200 stairs, up to
the lighthouse, down the lion-bridge ravine…and back to the area by the
stairway.

Here is a link to the report that shadowrunner made when he
searched in August of 2005.
http://entertainment.webshots.com/album/580062567nQUXod

It is a great theory, and I’m tempted to believe it, but patches of grass change a lot over the years. It’s just too hard to tell without more photographs.
I believe the next step should be to obtain
positive
identifications for PT5 and his/her neighbors. They look like birches in the 1940 photo, so are they birches, cottonwoods, or something else entirely? I assume none of us are botanists. There are, however, a number of arborists / tree service companies in Milwaukee that would probably be happy to identify these trees from photographs. If not, I would be happy to chip in just to settle the question once and for all.

Forest,
I tend to agree with the “cottonwood” identification of those last tall trees.
The following descriptions of cottonwood bark are in keeping with what we have
seen in the early photo and our present day observation.
***************************************************************
Bark is white and smooth on younger stems and trunk, becoming
darker and furrowed with age.
The bark is pale, thin, and smooth at a young age becoming grayish brown,
thick, and very deeply furrowed from the base of the tree upwards.
Very similar to the Tulip Poplar. The Cottonwood bark has deeper furrows.
**************************************************************
Unless BP were a trained arborist, he may have merely seen younger versions
of these trees, with their transitional birchy appearance and been satisfied to
call them “birches”.
If only we could find that “letter”!
AP

If they are cottonwoods, I wonder when they stopped looking birchy and started looking cottonwoody. They are so large now, and what – maybe 20 years old in the 1940 photograph? BP must have seen them when they were already 50-60 years old, surely old enough to have lost their youthful appearance.

Forest.
It seems like every new piece of information,
brings with it, a myriad of questions…
AP

boogieman

I was looking at the golf course on Local.live.com and I saw something interesting.
1st off, does this verse take you to the golf course?  Sorry, I missed something, can somebody tell me how?  Because if it does, and the walkway from the staircase is part of it, than maybe
Pass three, staying west
means pass the #3 Hole, make a right off of that path which is west and that would take you to the tee off spot for the #5 Hole.  looking from the bird’s eye view, if you know golf, you can see the first hole starts at the club house with the tee off.  The tee off for the 2nd hole should be next to the Green (the flag) of hole #1.  If you follow that pattern, the fifth hole is just past the three hole off the path coming from the staircase.
I’d show you the pic, but I can’t down load off of Local.live.   My point, maybe, just maybe, the three and the fifth are not trees, but part of the golf course holes.  There are usually 18 of them.  To me, eljayo’s pic looks like the 5 hole.

I agree that the tee box markers indeed look like they are for the 5th hole.  Also someone mentioned that the red markers are for the ladies tee box, but this is a Par 3 course so I doubt there are more than one tee box for each hole.

I just check Lake Park on Google Maps and I think they must have just updated their satellite photos.  Last time I looked you couldn’t really see anything as all the leaves were in the way but in the photo up there now most of the trees are leaveless and it provides a MUCH better view.

Today’s the day!!!!!!!!  Am I correct?  Good Luck!
-regulus

the tree may be tall, but what makes it proud?
Again Congratulations!
-regulus

Reg,
I also question the use of the description “proud”.
It may be that the tree was more upright then and tall
by comparison to the existing younger trees in 1982.
AP

If you had treasure at your feet, you’d be proud too!

Hey guys,
awake and looking at the gps data.. i tried to recalibrate the unit after i did my walk thru down the draw / culvert with the birck trees in it. i couldnt get the compass portion to calibrate and even though it allowed me to use the marking functions and such.. looking at the points, there off..
its saturday i will try and contact Garmin and see if they are open. i want this to be tight.. which obviously means i need to go back once i figure this out.. my bad on this..
ill work with what i have though and post another page on my website.
my apologizes on this guys..

Wainting patiently.

Shadowrunner,
If you email me the coords I can easily plot them on an aerial photo of the area.  Actually, I just enter them and the software lays them over the photo.  PM me if you’re interested.

Everyone check out what Eljayo posted!!!!!!
That is the exact same route that I took to find the Lamppost.  I will try to post a map of the area.

yes Eljayo, sorry, that is the lamppost notice how many lights it has on it.  Like a stadium light.

I know this board has been dead since 2014, but if anybody still comes here I just want to make it known that the hunt continues.
I came upon what might have been an epiphany today. I need to just scour the message boards to make sure nobody else has thought of it or tried it yet.

digging at the base of a lamppost is the spot.  That’s where I believe the treasure to be.  Now, how deep do I have to dig?  Last time I dug there, I only dug a foot and a half.  So what’s the deepest a casque has been buried?  Cleveland or Chicago?  Which was deeper?
I’m still wondering if the lampposts in the park are just for looks.  I’m assuming not, but I hope they are.
Need some help here.
-regulus

good luck to you regulus, but be careful.

It would have been exceedingly stupid to bury a casque at the base of an electrically powered lamp post. BP would never encourage his treasure hunters to endanger their lives like that. Reconsider, and be careful!!

Just spent 3 hours at the Lakefront in Milwaukee. (Saturday AM).
My husband, who is a Milwaukee native, says that Lincoln Memorial Dr.
used to be just a two-lane road before it was widened to  4-lanes with
a median.  He says there is a possibility that the trees which were used
as markers, could very well by “under the asphalt” of the existing road.
We used a 6-foot rod and metal detector to try to detect anything
buried by our original “tall proud 5th”.  We hit roots, but no plastic box.
The next step is to try to find photos of the area in the 1980’s.
That will be the only way to determine what trees the author used.
AP

That wooden foot bridge mentioned by the culvert
can be seen in the two ‘Girl Scout Ravine’ photos
that I liked a bit ago.
They bird watch from it.

Here is a close up of the area above the fork in the tree.
It is not a Girl Scout insignia, but it may have been
something that BP thought looked like a letter “A”.
(Africa being the country of wonderstone’s hearth?)
Maybe it’s a scar where a limb broke off?
AP
I still cannot attach photos to my post for some reason…
so these are posted on Tweleve.
http://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a … 1184979392
http://www.tweleve.org/attachment.php?a … 1184979408

hey all,
I have spent the last ten days bumming around Milwaukee and I spent a few days at Lake Park trying to figure out the path that the verse lays out.  Everytime I followed the verse I ended up at the same tree that FB and stercox dug at last year.  So needless to say I didn’t find it but I do have a few things to report.
First, I checked a bunch of different parks and saw absolutely no reason to believe that it is anywhere other than Lake Park.  I didn’t expect to but I thought I would be thorough.
Secondly, this is a minor point as it doesn’t change the location any, I don’t think that the two balls the woman in the image is juggling are lawnbowling balls.  I think they are golf tee markers on the golf course right next to the lawnbowling fields.  My rationale is a) the color is right and the same all the time while the only people I saw lawnbowling were using black balls b) tee markers would be there all the time whereas lawnbowling balls would only be there if someone was playing, and c) tee markers come in sets of two while lawnbowling balls come in sets of 3-4(I think)
Thirdly, I believe I found the culvert that is referred to in the lines:
PASS THE COMPASS AND REACH
THE FOOT OF THE CULVERT
BELOW THE BRIDGE
After climbing the grand staircase you have to cross the golf course in order to get to the stairs that lead down into ravine 1.  At first, I didn’t really like this because there is a far easier way to pass the compass.  You just stay on the path that leads around the golf course and pass the compass by crossing the lion’s head bridge.  However, from there there is no easy way to get down into the ravine and below the bridge.  It’s doable but you could easily fall and hurt yourself climbing down the steeps sides of the ravine.  So I’m sure that BP would have taken (and wanted us to take) the far safer way and cross the golf course and descend into ravine 1 via the stairs at the far end of the ravine.  Once down there just before you reach the lion’s head bridge you pass the compass.  You can’t see it from there and I don’t know whether or not you could see it from there in 1982 but you definitely pass it.  When you are under the lion’s head bridge you are standing on a wooden footbridge and holding up the far end of the wooden footbridge is a stonewall.  In that stone wall is the culvert.  It is an old clay pipe that is a drain or channel under the path(which is the definition of a culvert.)  It is actually below (in elevation) both bridges, the lion’s head bridge and the wooden footbridge.  It is not directly under either the lion’s head bridge or the wooden footbridge.  You would be about 4-5 feet past both bridges when you get to the culvert.  I did not see anything like that below the bridge in ravine 2.
If you then walk 100 paces from the culvert(and I took a pace to mean a slightly longer than usual step) you end up at the end of the ravine at the first young birch that shadowrunner has marked on his map.
Anyway, that is what I found.  I will probably be back there early next week and be there until the 31st or so if anybody wants to get together and do some searching.
digger7

Digger,
I agree with your take on getting under the bridge.
It was difficult to get down the steep grade leading
from the lighthouse to the bottom of the ravine.
(I tried both the stairs and the steep hill.)
“Pass the compass” can definitely mean…pass to
the North of it…under the first Lion Bridge.
The trail leading under the first Lion Bridge is made
of dirt and stones…”Southeast over rock and soil”…
where as the trail under the 2nd Lion Bridge is made
of dirt and timbers.
Seeing the photos of the Tall Proud 5th tree in 1996,
and imagining how much smaller in diameter it would
have been in 1982 (14 years earlier!), you can see
that the “southern foot” where the box was buried
may now actually be
under
the tree trunk,
whose diameter has increased considerably in 25 years!
AP

two other things that just came to mind.
1) the red tee markers are the where women tee off from which could explain the woman in the picture.
2) the 2 Girl Scout markers that I saw were half buried under the bark of the trees.  It is possible that the one we are looking for is completely covered in bark.  However, the markers are metal so it should be findable with a  metal detector.
digger7

Since everyone is in such a birchy mood…
The word “birch” comes from the old German (appropriate for this casque) “Birka”, meaning “Bright”.
And on another note.  The proud tall 5th as identified (albeit a cottonwood) is really an assumption.  Coming out of Ravine 1 into this area–we have never identified the first of these 5 trees, the all allusive first young birch.  We see the “west three” and the biggest in that copse assuming it to be the PT5th.  These 4 trees still exist.  I remember when we were digging,
Pine
found a decently sized divot in the ground, a place that had settled where the first tree might have really stood.  You can still find that divot today.  It alone could have been a birch.  The verse allows for the others to be trees unrelated to birches.  In fact, birch used as an adjective in this verse assumes the noun to be “tree”, just as “pass three” and “on a proud tall, fifth” would also then assume the same noun “trees or tree”.  There may have been only one birch in this copse and in comparing size,  birch vs cottonwood, the birch would have looked diminutive, that is, young.
Lastly, someone in this world has to have a picture of that area from the 80’s.  Our best chance of finding such a person would be to concentrate on the Milwaukee natives.  I propose running an ad in the local paper for finding such information.  That would be our best chance of getting a hit and we have team members there that could act as contacts.  I would not endorse connecting the inquiry to treasure hunting or any wording that would promote digging in Lake Park by other parties.  I’d be willing to invest a little money here to see if we could take this next step, or we could just continue to argue the semantics some more (see paragraph above
).  What say you?

sounds like a good idea!
I was at my local Border’s book and music store the other day.  And there was a book on display, titled “Historic Photos of Milwaukee” this caught my attention, so I picked it up, and I checked the index, nothing about Lake Park.  The photos go back as as far as the 1800’s! Up until 1960 I think.  It did however have plenty of pictures of Milwaukee’s City Hall!!!!!!!
Pretty cool!  Lemme know if I should take another look!
-regulus

hey all,
I was back up in Milwaukee last week.  Not much new to report.  I used my limited knowledge of trees(garnered mostly by googling images of birch and cottonwood leaves) to confirm that the proud tall fifth tree and the not so tall nor proud fourth tree are both cottonwood.  However, those first three trees are not.  They look like birch leaves but the trees are so tall that I couldn’t get a really good look at them but they are at least birch-like.  I did notice one thing when I was looking at some paper birches in another park.  It seemed to me that as paper birches get older their bark changes from that white papery bark to a more gnarled texture that looks more like the bark on the first 3 trees at the end of Ravine 1.
digger7

According to the verse, the type of tree (that the fifth is) is open.  Do I read this right?  Has this been said already?

(Cheers…I’ll be interested to see the lie of the land once it’s thawed a bit.)

WhiteRabbit,
I have looked around the bases of the bridges…along the topsides,
around the sides (which are extremely steep…only with very good boots
and a walking stick do you make it up and down the sides)  and along the
foundation footings.
The stone and concrete around the foundation does not lend itself well
to digging.
I have also checked around the other bridges in the park.
When our snow melts, I will take another look at the area…to see what
changes have been made…and to poke around with my soil probe.
Keep throwing out your ideas.  We need the new perspectives!
AP

Thanks for that AP. Could you let me know how many bridges there are with lions, and how many lions they have…? It would be great if it was possible to link to a map showing their location…I couldn’t identify them from Google…

OK…am I right in thinking there are just two bridges with lions, adjacent, shown in this pic…? And eight lions, four at the corner of each bridge…? Were both bridges renovated, or just one of them…?
Re: the proud tall fifth, and the tall proud Hadas, Image 10 also has the millstone that appears on the flag of the Spanish pic (Image 6)…which is purple like an amethyst, though the gem shown in Image 10 isn’t. Must be some missing connection there.
“Each lion is signed and dated P. Kupper”
They have letter-from-the-country potential then. Fifth lion…?
Is it possible to construct a trail that includes the 100 paces southeast over rock and soil, goes under the first bridge or whatever, and winds up around the base of a lion on the second…? I’m picturing the lion at the northeast corner of the south bridge. Perhaps “pass three” refers to the three faces on the Girl Scouts badges.

Here’s some brainstorming on Milwaukee. It’s a bit “left-field”, but what do you expect.  😉
I think these puzzles revolve around certain themes. One of the themes for Milwaukee is the Girl Scouts. Lions are another.
I previously suggested the Wisconsin Club (Mitchell Mansion) for the start of the trail. It was pointed out that the Mitchell Tower is closer, although both are on a road that leads to Lincoln Memorial Drive where it’s possible to pick up the clues to “Cast on copper / Ascend the 92 steps” etc.
As you walk the beating of the world
At a distance in time
From three who lived there
At a distance in space
From woman, with harpsichord
Silently playing
Although an attempt has been made to explain the journey from Mitchell Tower to Lincoln Memorial Drive in terms of these lines, I seem to remember it’s a bit of a stretch.
I still like the Wisconsin Club because it was called “The Deutscher”, which ties in with the German basis of the puzzle, and because of its lion staircase.
“The Grand Staircase in the East Hall of the house with its twenty-four lion heads took one craftsman seven years to build.”
The club was originally near the Pabst theatre; hence the collar.
“The first home of the new club, called the ‘Deutscher’ or ‘German’ Club, was in the Old Opera House near the site of the present Pabst Theatre.”
For the Deutscher, the “three who lived there” would be the three who set up the club. Don’t know how some of the other lines like the “beating of the world” would tie in with this route; I’m still looking.
Anyway, for now let’s carry on from Lincoln Memorial and the Grand Staircase until we get to these lines:
Pass the compass and reach
The foot of the culvert
Below the bridge
Walk 100 paces
Southeast over rock and soil
To the first young birch
Pass three, staying west
It’s been pointed out that Image 10 resembles the lion.
I’m interested in a theory that the position of the gemstones in the images gives a hint towards the actual position…but not for that image. (Eg, cf the Montreal lamppost theory). Image 2 shows us a gem by the base of a lion.
It’s just a hypothesis.
The founder of the US Girl Scouts,
Juliette Gordon
Low
, was completely deaf. She was born in Savannah – lion country. The German for “lion” is “
lowe
“.
Walk 100 paces
Southeast over rock and soil
To the first young birch
The girl scout is deaf though. What if she didn’t hear this bit?
Up to this point, you’ve been heading West.
Pass three, staying west
Pass three lines? Ignore them?
I’m going off the idea that these gems are buried next to trees. The book is saturated with messages about man’s relationship with nature, and hints that the book will reveal “the significance of the quest…in the relationship between Man and the Fair People”. I’m starting to wonder if several of these puzzles hint at, and avoid, digging up trees.
You’ll see a letter from the country
Of wonderstone’s hearth
On a tall, proud fifth
At its southern foot
The treasure waits.
Stay west. Wait. “Proud” hints at a lion. (“Tall, proud” also hints at the Spanish Hadas who are described in this way on P13. Not sure what significance this has, or how what is said about the German Fair Folk in the introduction ties in with this puzzle.)
I’m also remembering the German fairytale about the girl who touched a castle with a primrose and discovered a magic entrance. Like a bridge, maybe…? Then there’s Rapunzel, with her long, golden mane…
“Rapunzel is German for another herb, not parsley, but some kind of bitter salad green; fairy-tale editors tend to identify it as spinach or lettuce, as mentioned earlier. It is variously identified, however, in the botanical books I looked at and seems to be most commonly associated with evening primrose”
Has anyone tried digging next to the lion bridge?
*edit* Just found the
Lion Bridge Renovation
thread. So I guess that’s a “yes”. (Sorry I’m being slow catching up here; the only stuff I’d read on Milwaukee digging was about tree stumps, and I’d previously not paid too much attention to this image because I thought it depended on trees that weren’t there any more. I’m not so sure about the trees now, but I hadn’t realised how much the bridges had also been redeveloped. I don’t have a very clear picture of where the lion bridges were, or how many there were. Is there still ground in the immediate vicinity of a bridge lion that’s undisturbed and unexplored, or should I forget about them…?)

WhiteRabbit,
The Lake Park Friends Website, below, has a lot of
good info and interactive maps of all the sites in Lake Park.
http://www.lakeparkfriends.org/explore.shtml

When they get done with the hike have them have a dig party at the area ypu think the casque is at.

I was able to get to Lake Park this morning…and used the metal detector
by the Girl Scout Marker Tree at the end of the South Ravine.  It kept reading
“Iron” at the “southern foot” of the tree.  So I dug down just over a foot.
The metal turned out to be a 1964 nickel.  Once that was removed, I got
no more readings.
Then I walked down to the other end of the ravine on Lincoln Memorial Drive,
I could not believe my eyes!
Work crews had come in with a bobcat and chain saws and had almost
completely denuded both sides of the ravine by the exit!!
The sides are now only dirt except for a few trees they left behind.
(I felt like someone had come into my house and “trashed” it!)
I hope that this area was not where BP buried the casque…
Because most of the trees that
were
there are mostly
not
there now.
(photos at the link below)
http://tinyurl.com/5jln9b
No doubt they will replant this with some kind of ground cover.
AP

Keep on top of th construction. this may not be such a bad thing as you may be able to dig more places. Let the right people know to be on the look out for the casque.

Scottrocks,
Such an optimistic reply…
They are also digging up by the Lions…
putting in a “rain garden”.  There is a nice
big pile of dirt by the end of the bridge.