maltedfalcon

Well I came up with the theory and even I don’t think “walking path” is accurate. I said there is a path from an iconic image in the painting to the first spot in the verse.
it seems to be straight or only have a few turns. But outside of a method for identifying the casque site area, I don’t think there really is any point in actually trying to
walk the path.
This shows true in Chicago and Cleveland
and looks to be true in
SF
Milwaukee
St Augustine
New York
New Orleans
Charleston
Possibly in
Roanoke
Montreal
Boston
But does not seem to be true in
Houston
I suspect though it is true in Houston, Roanoke, Montreal and Boston, but things have changed so much it is too difficult to identify the “path” anymore.

If you want the exact spot to minimize your digging time, you definitely need the walking path. Houston’s a problem, though. When I walked it last month, I found there’s now an obstacle, so I can’t be sure I went where I wanted to go. The rest was still walkable.

erexere

I wonder if that was another clue, that in one of the other images a helmet identification will come into play.

No probably not.

I don’t remember him saying anything special about the helmet, per se–I know he used his brother for a model for the centaur.

Found it, very bottom of article below pic of JJP.
http://www.angelfire.com/dragon/egbert/secret.html
Its strangely coincidental that the last part of his comment is “My God, its 22 years later.”  it reminds me of the helmeted character named Bowman from 2001:Space Osyssey who says “My God, it’s full of stars.”  Bowman is a statue reference, a pledge of alliegance reference, and A.C.Clark.  We are talking about a helmet here…makes me want to revive the BSG Viper helmet idea…
Chicago:  The Bowman statue by Ivan Mestrovic
San Francisco:  Verse 7, “Justice for all”.  Louis Bowman added the words “under God” to the Pledge of Allegience.
Houston: helmet wearing Bowman character from 2001 might support a space motif like the Battlestar Galactica helmet which looks much like the Lion jaw fountain at the zoo.
Why do I have the feeling Byron asked John to put that hint in the interview?

erexere

Why do I have the feeling Byron asked John to put that hint in the interview?

Well thats easy to answer, Because you are incredbily susceptible to pareidolia.

maltedfalcon

Well thats easy to answer, Because you are incredbily susceptible to pareidolia.

Very likely the case if I neglected to utilize concrete examples in the context of the hunt.  Citing Keats or Melville in attempt to cross reference something as a possibility is called research.  I had the curiosity to consider Keats Ode to a Nightengale because Byron used words that are atributed to Keats epitaph.  I only considered BSG because Starbuck is a signigicant figure in Melville’s work.  That reminds me, the Indominatable from Billy Budd reminds me of one of the lines in verse 6.  I’d like to discuss that later.
Your ability to casually dismiss material is annoying and passive-agressive in a friendly forum.  Seriously, how often do people only express either like or dislike without acknowledging a substantiated reason?  Isnt that annoying?  I’ve made my point about checking facts and submitting a stronger candidate for consideration as an alternative to simply stating your opinion.  Shecrab calls that approach BS.  *shrug*  I think you should be open minded and critical as much as you can be as long as you can back it up with support.

shecrab

U
All you’re really saying is that you dont agree.  All im saying is, what if thats the case, what could it mean, does that lead to anything useful?  Im working to bring cohesion to a scheme of yet-to-be-connected pieces.  If something is purely random, then Im sure to fail connecting it to something substantial, but instead I’ve succeded in raising some questions while you’ve made yourself look foolish for labeling me with negative connotations.
Maltedfalcon, youve received appreciation and understanding from me.  I encourage you to stick to your methods.  You have a sound approach.  I know it was right for Chicago and Cleveland, but I question if the method will work for all the casques.  Keep working on finding those concrete pieces.  Meanwhile, please lay off the pointless banter.  You’re better than that.  I’m still shocked that you wont even consider a snow-capped mountain peak as a symbol for the color white, but i understand if you fully expect there to be a little white rock to fit with verse 5.
Suffice it to say everyone here, including yourself, has posted a creative idea as a solution one time or another.  If you’ve chosen to narrow or rigidify your process, i understand it has the benefit of bbeing simple and direct, but don’t loose your negativity on others in the forum just because they embrace an alternative approach.  Think about how that affects others.
Shecrab, Bigmatty, I hope you can appreciate that I’m not upset and I’m trying to be constructive.  Lets get to the facts.  Has Byron created a puzzle that encourages a creative approach and a need to understand historical and thematic materials?  I think so, and I’m doing my best to form my ideas accordingly.  I’d expect you all to know the difference between the case of a single random piece of information and the instance of multiple (more than one) pieces fitting into an idea (some folks call that a pattern).
On a light hearted note:  there are more ways to look at a glass of water than you might think.  Sometimes the glass is half empty, sometimes its half full, sometimes you’re suspicious of the water (is it safe to drink?), and sometimes you might be affraid of leaving your fingerprints (which might mean you’re guilty…lol).  Come on folks, be a little more kind and thoughtful.

How far from the Chicago casque was that water tower disguised as a windmill in the image? (From google nav.) 7min.
How far from the Cleveland casque was the Terminal Tower in the image? 12 min.
How far is Kosciuszko Park from the Milwaukee City Hall in image 10’s background?  How far from Lake Park’s Grand Stair?
Mitchell Hall to City Hall: 12 min.
City Hall to Kosciusko Park: 12 min.
Doesnt prove or disprove anything.  Where we are certain of the city it shouldnt be too hard to disprove a site with reasonable inspections.  Id really like to think Kosciuszko while a good distance from Mitchell Hall or the Grand Stair is still within the city and worth a closer look.

Choice

I was referring to my guide line concept as a tool.

If you look closely at the arch you’ll notice that the arch is not uniform, it leans to the left. So the fountain head is not sitting in the middle but offset to the left. This creates an optical illusion tricking the brain thinking it’s in the middle. An straight line from jewel to nose will project to the planter area and to the left. This is an alternative to the Centaur nose.

You might ask yourself….
“Where did I go wrong? Was it my first step, or my second, third, etc?”
We would expect knowing the right pairing is the first step. Then it would be getting the right State/city/lat-long/historic event to take you to the next part of the puzzle. Some insight into the theme or Fair Folk trick would probably help you discern the remaining collection of clues, possibly not so much steps as they are congruencies for someone to build up a bit of gist for getting warmer in the process. Lastly, you look at a site and see lots of options before you, but which really makes the best sense for where to dig?

I’ve been thinking that the real methodology is fun.  Folks aren’t having fun.  They’re finding tree stumps and being stumped.  They’re shutting themselves in and eating their last remaining stockpiles of Twinkies…now that’s no fun unless they’re sharing.
My biggest departure from the consensus is Oregon(image 5) and Washington(verse 9) stripping the prize away from the opposite corner of the country’s FOY.  Again, I take a defiant leap from Montreal in favor of Vancouver, but I actually base my theory on the Legeater lamp.  Apparently everyone wants to make love to the lamp and then hang around smoking a cigarette.  I know it’s completely unprecedented to ask the question “why the leg of a lamp?” rather than just note the lamp location and then look around for the next visual/verse match, but I find a wealth of significance in learning that it’s Lord Mount Stephen’s lamp and it’s a clear logic to take some simple elements from that and apply it to the quest for understanding.
Why the foot/leg/beast?  I believe this hunt is largely centered on all things “Secret” or “secrete” (helmet) and is our foremost hint that we will find our locations by searching for things relating to defense or relating to heads.  In Cleveland, it was a wall, that which creates the border between two countries but also is a measure of defense.  In Chicago, it was an illustration of a castle-on-a-hat, castles are major defensive structures but also tend to be the home or head of governance.  I see this lamp leg in Montreal and I think “yeah, that’s a head eating a leg, but it’s still just a leg.”  If this hunt is about heads, then what does the beast have to do with anything?  I’ll leave this question unsettled for now.  What was Lord Mount Stephen best known for?  The Canadian Pacific Railway, a transcontinnental rail that takes us from Montreal to Vancouver B.C.  If there is anything to this line of thinking, then I’d hope to find something largely recognized and not too obscure relating to either or both a cougar and a train of the CP-Railway.

hoping for something not too obscure in Vancouver BC, I find a miniature train featuring the first engine No.374 of the CP-Rail.  I also find an amazing story about a cougar hunt that pretty much closed the whole park down and had every hot shot hunter and hunting dog on the trail to kill the cougar that had been nabbing the angora goats from the Zoo at Stanley Park.  The cougar was stuffed and put on display at the Pavillion.
I’m unable to verify at this time that the stuffed cougar was on display when Preiss may have been in the park to bury the casque.

I like breakdown into categories or puzzle methods. The duality concept is loosely what I like to apply the term
intermezzo
which helps use a motif from one puzzle as a n insight to another. For example, the verse that uses the word giant may take inspiration from P5, the giant with a castle for a hat and lead us to a conclusion that involves some castle like location for verse 7.
Acrostics are a really simple puzzle/cryptographic method. I think V4 uses Socrates, Pindar, Apellas as a way to suggest a bath house or natural spring idea, S-P-A. It doesn’t really make sense given the wall and dirt plot, but maybe it will make sense if we use that to link with the Nymphs of Hellas aquamarine, spring water clear.
Verse 10’s “Of him of Hard word in 3 Vol.” Could be a O-H-V or just H-V initials for something.

I think I may have found a link between the 12 puzzles and 12 books of the Old Testament. I have brief descriptions on how I think BP matched up the puzzles and books. I’ve posted this on Facebook and a couple of other places as well, so I apologize if you’re seeing this for the second time. These notes are in the “Exiled by the Law of the Prophet” blog. I can’t seem to get the link so you may have to copy it.
https://thesecretofthesecret.blog

Apropos of nothing, I was thinking about how it’s very unlikely Preiss used an obscure definition in any of the verses.
My logic goes like this:
Preiss loved words. As such, he was undoubtedly aware of the misconception that the dictionary defines what words mean. In fact, the dictionary just reflects how a word is being popularly used. It’s not like the dictionaries said “okay, we’re going to make up this new definition for “tweet”” and then Twitter said “great, we will use that word.”
So, knowing that dictionaries only cite how words are being used, it would seem counterproductive to use an archaic definition. Because that would mean it’s a tough puzzle because not many people know that definition, BUT the reason why not many people know that definition is because people don’t use that definition commonly. In other words, a linguist would know that a seldom-used definition is a weak definition, and wouldn’t want to highlight a word usage that might be on the way out.
So, I strongly feel that, although a puzzle solver might see an obscure definition as a valid part of a solve, I think a linguist would definitely want to avoid that. Instead I think that a linguist would favor simply using a common alternate defintoin (like “brush” meaning paintbrush not another kind of brush)

the line with the greeks, each name brings you to a different place.

I find it interesting to look beyond any coincidence to gain perspective on how carefully thought out any actual solution might’ve been designed. Given the LotJ line “cold morning green” for the May puzzle, I think it’s entirely possible a highly creative process may have it’s role in the puzzle solving process. Instinctively we would shy away from anything that doesn’t fit our idea for what’s simplistic or straight forwards.

WR, I see what you’re saying. It’s intriguing to think about. Something about the numbers doesn’t appear to add up. Important to note is p10 gives us 48 Fair Folk of the old world, grouped into 13 general regions and then the 4 from the Orient, which includes the Dragon gives us a total of 52…(enough to make a deck of cards eh?). We know from the LotJ that the Dragon brings the pearl, and the other old types of Fairy bring us 11 jewels and then 12 weird wrought casques from the Viking Elves.
How did the pearl find it’s way into an Elven casque? I imagine the Dragon’s pearl didn’t wander all over the new world with the Indian tribes. It seems like it just arrived in the SF area and one of the Viking Elves either had an empty casque handy or they crafted a box right then and there when the 4 strangest of the Shining Ones reached the Pacific Ocean after their long trek west. In other words, various Fair Folk and 8 jewels w/ casques found their secret locations before the small group of Fair Folk carrying 3 remaining jewels made it to the Pacific Ocean beaches. One of the Elven smiths fell in love with the area now known as San Francisco and met the Chinese and their Dragon’s pearl. The remaining 3 jewels and casques then traveled north into the Nootka lands, hence we’re told the story by the Nootka ancestor.
As far as using the Chinese calendar to apply to other locations, I don’t see it working that way in Cleveland or Chicago. What I see is something unique in each image that sets a thematic component to that type of Fairy,
Chicago: giant wearing a hat, which is actually a castle, which has lots of metal ornaments and lightning rods attached to the spires. The CELTIC theme seems to connect loosely and anagrammically to things related to ELECTRICTY (see letters E L C T I C may be pulled out to spell CELTIC).
Cleveland: centaur holding a cup, actually shaped like an Italian fountain, and the casque was found in neigbhoring Greek garden between two cups, connecting the aquamarine (aqua- water -marine) to a watery themed Nymph hiding spot.
Each of the other visual puzzles holds a thematic key that will suit its primary Fairy host. Milwaukee’s Dwarves seem to like the circus performer juggling (actually rotating) various objects and balls. In that, there’s a theme. I believe it’s largely focused on rotunda, or circular and domelike structures.
Spotting these connecting themes seem like the best way to conduct this hunt.

FB,
I had expected that by now your avatar would have doffed his Santa hat and donned sunglasses!
(Although it may still be chilly by you…It was 37 degrees this morning in Milwaukee
)
AP

I’m still feeling festive. And if my avatar were to wear sunglasses, you wouldn’t be able to tell.

Some presumptions about long journeys between point A and point B leave very little word or visual clues to describe the requisite components that are needed to locate an exact spot.
Of course it’s always dependent on the given layout and surroundings and each situation may well be different or unique.
Here’s some examples to consider, try to think of each A, B, C, or D each needing a line or two of verse or an image clue to coordiate a given opportunity for X:
The last of these should look familiar, it’s my theory for Houston.

Would it be safe to say the final visual clue to the location of the casque is shown near the center of the images. ie the fence in Grant park and the concrete planter box in Cleveland ?

erexere

Many of the thoughts shared on these boards continue to be blunt tool approach. I’m not judging whether anyone is right or wrong and I’m not commenting on the semantics of saying “solved”. I just wonder why very few people talk about how a particular clue is expected or justifiable based on a whever proposed framework the puzzle represents.
I often preach would contexts would be derived from a Folk Folk perspective. Man, one that is good enough, is the target audience for each puzzle. Is there some lesson or trick insight that is especially attractive or purposeful to that Fair Folk?
Is Boston all about messages? Is it about memorials to war? Is it about T&Xation? Is it about American Revolution? What memorials or locations are supported by their justifications?

ask yourself, from where are the fair folk derived…what is Preiss doing in the rest of the book?

Use the KISS method when solving theses puzzles. The books target audience was probably teenage American boys not Nobel laureates or philosophers looking for deep meanings in archaic languages. You may need to dumb yourself down to the level of a teenager.

Euhirudinea

Just my opinion, but I believe that Palencar knows (or knew at one time; it’s been 30+ years after all) a whole lot more about these puzzles than he lets on when asked about it. There are just too many common elements in the images for me to believe that there wasn’t significant collaboration between him and Preiss on their design and execution. There is no doubt in my mind that if he was the unscrupulous sort, he had all the information he needed to dig up each and every casque if he was so inclined, and could probably still find a few, even after all this time. His reticence, and his commitment to keeping Preiss’ confidences long after it ceased to matter, suggests that he is the farthest thing from that. And for that, he has my utmost respect.

Amen. I agree with all of that.

Euhirudinea

Methinks more than he has ever let on. If you want to keep a secret, the best way to do it is to convince yourself that the lie is, in fact, the truth. Palencar says he doesn’t know, and that he never did. It’s the lie that preserves the greater truth in my opinion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vn_PSJsl0LQ

BP is not the only one who knows the hiding places…Palencar was there for the Cleveland casque, and BP had a lookout for each burial.

It is a given that BP gave area photos to JJ Palencar to be used
in the creation of his 12 paintings.
JJ Palencar has said that he was not told the locations of
the casques (except for Cleveland, where he was actually
with BP at the time of the casque burial.)
So if Palencar was not told where the casques were buried…
if he were just given photos of the area to incorporate into
artwork….How do we know which objects were actually seen
NEAR the casque location? What determined the importance
of a photo image when Palencar was putting together his
artwork?
I think that the VERSES must be the most important things that
lead to the casque locations, unless BP wrote on the back
of a photo, “Be sure to use this prominently in your painting.”
Yes??

Totally Yes.

Unknown

Unknown:
It is a given that BP gave area photos to JJ Palencar to be used in the creation of his 12 paintings.

Just my opinion, but I believe that Palencar knows (or knew at one time; it’s been 30+ years after all) a whole lot more about these puzzles than he lets on when asked about it. There are just too many common elements in the images for me to believe that there wasn’t significant collaboration between him and Preiss on their design and execution. There is no doubt in my mind that if he was the unscrupulous sort, he had all the information he needed to dig up each and every casque if he was so inclined, and could probably still find a few, even after all this time. His reticence, and his commitment to keeping Preiss’ confidences long after it ceased to matter, suggests that he is the farthest thing from that. And for that, he has my utmost respect.

animal painter

ie
I think that the VERSES must be the most important things that
lead to the casque locations, unless BP wrote on the back
of a photo, “Be sure to use this prominently in your painting.”
Yes??

I have been hammering on this point for years. My belief has long been that, for the most part, the images were useless except for the coordinates. The internet has mucked it up even further because we can find SOOOOO many relations to the images.
Because BP was the only one that knew the locations, he was also the only one that could utilize consistency, meaning consistency could only be used in the verses. So, the verses MUST contain the real direction while the images are complementary, not necessary. This is why we see (and believe) that solves can be had without the understanding of the entire image. JJP had nothing to go on when making the images.
But then… we see consistent use of coordinates hidden in the images, and the use of cultures and flowers and months and culture and clockss. So, we know that JJP was given
some

direction to his paintings and clue usage… How much?
With BP’s unfortunate death, it seems to be an eternal case of the chicken and the egg.

Unknown

Unknown:
So, we know that JJP was given
some
direction to his paintings and clue usage… How much?

Methinks more than he has ever let on. If you want to keep a secret, the best way to do it is to convince yourself that the lie is, in fact, the truth. Palencar says he doesn’t know, and that he never did. It’s the lie that preserves the greater truth in my opinion.

yes seloy comes to the top of a search referencing a foy display built in 2013
prior to that the word was more obscure, and when first found it was amazing to me that the association had been made.
and even if it is a valid clue, it is redundant when put next to first chapter written in water.
especially if it only is a clue that points to the FOY.
perhaps it is referring to a sign or plaque that is no longer there.
but more telling is it never happens in any of the other verses.

maltedfalcon

yes seloy comes to the top of a search referencing a foy display built in 2013. prior to that the word was more obscure

maltedfalcon

and even if it is a valid clue, it is redundant when put next to first chapter written in water. especially if it only is a clue that points to the FOY.

maltedfalcon

perhaps it is referring to a sign or plaque that is no longer there.

maltedfalcon

but more telling is it never happens in any of the other verses.

No, it wasn’t.
It isn’t redundant for the fact that it is on on-site visual/quote of a different object that “First Chapter.” Regardless, it would be accurate to say that at least 80% of the puzzles contain redundant park confirmers, let alone many other city/object redundant confirmers.
But, it was and is still there.
But, it does happen in another verse.

I’ve become comfortable with the idea that Preiss put a hell of a lot of work into shaping each raw illustration before JJP adds the finishing touches. The verse on the other hand involves a staggering level of dodgery. Word choices, phrase, and references from obscurity are very specific to each situation.
What I’m not comfortable with is how so much theory hinges on oddball bits of information that doesn’t seem practical to the pre-internet world view. When I look at all my theories to date, I feel like a failure. I’ve fact checked to the best of my ability, but it never seems good enough.
Probably most of my frustration is the futile nature of looking for any casque location where I don’t have immediate or local access. Also, I’m really tired of looking at any maps made post-1982. If there is one in Oregon, then that’s all I should be talking about in any specific measure. As far as the other locations, I should only ask standard questions and mitigate incidental moments of insanity.

I feel your pain. I live in a city with a casque, but far enough away and with too many responsibilities to squeeze in the amount of on-the-ground searching that is probably necessary.

whiterabbit, your trying to hard to make a joke. You are aware of all the wacky and wild associations youve made over the years, right?

Unknown

Unknown:
your trying to hard to make a joke

If it makes you feel any better E, the trending speculation that we may have the wrong cities, or the wrong Verse/Image connections is crazier than some of what you have posted over the years.
[Rant]
Everyone is entitled to their own opinion I guess. Mine is that that train of thought is nothing but sheer laziness and an unwillingness to work the puzzles the way Preiss intended. Or maybe it’s just frustration at the lack of progress. Or a refusal to accept that these are highly visual puzzles that have been significantly affected by all the changes to the landscape over the past 33 years. So much so that in most cases that you can’t just retrace Preiss’ orginial steps, see what he saw, and dig a small hole to retrieve a casque.
It is also my opinion that many of the casques are gone, lost to time and changes in the landscape. But there are some, in whole or in part, that are still exactly where Preiss put them in 1981/82. And someone is going to find one. Not stumble upon it, or dig it up by accident. But actually dig one up by working the puzzle, building on the information that has been archived here, and seeing the thing(s) that up until this point have eluded the rest of us. They may be small things, but when the margin of error between success and failure is a foot or two, it’s the small things that matter.
[/Rant]

WhiteRabbit

img
I don’t know when it dates from, but if it was post-1982, it must surely have appeared somewhere else. It was before 2013 anyway, because Stercox posted about it in 2007.

Wrong one… Closer to “years pass.”

Unknown

Unknown:
If it makes you feel any better E, the trending speculation that we may have the wrong cities, or the wrong Verse/Image connections is crazier than some of what you have posted over the years.

I am actually a huge proponent of trying new verse/image combinations. I particularly like I9/V12 and I1/V4. Would you all be willing to work on those for the next several months?

R. absolutely!
That’s an extremely good way to look at it. I don’t want to give in to frustration. I know best how hard it is to escape my own fixations. I don’t always have the strength to resist sharing my thoughts. The worst case scenario, I’m just wrong, but given the way these verses reaed and some of the symbolic perspectives of the visual puzzles, I’m vigilant in my enthusiasm to work with ideas outside the group focus. And what if the group is wrong? I don’t want to spend all my time following the wrong theory. I’ve done my share of digging, so I understand the small things matter. I don’t believe in luck in these puzzles.
My opinion is also that some are lost, but some are still intact.

erexere

whiterabbit, your trying to hard to make a joke. You are aware of all the wacky and wild associations youve made over the years, right?

Euhirudinea

the trending speculation that we may have the wrong cities, or the wrong Verse/Image connections is crazier

Oh, sure. *hangs head in shame*
(I’m only saying, you’re the original seloysceptic.
)
I don’t know what image/verse combinations you prefer, or how you could be certain which of V5/V6 is Charleston, or V2/V7 is New Orleans, or what SF is, when there are still references like “Lane two twenty two”, and “An arc of lights”, and “An object of Twain’s attention” that no-one can be sure of. It seems to me that BP went out of his way to confuse the pairings, and I don’t see
Abroad in America
as an incontrovertible guide. (In fact, it seems positively unlikely to me that he would have cemented two pairings from the same obscure book.)

WhiteRabbit

… I don’t see
Abroad in America
as an incontrovertible guide. (In fact, it seems positively unlikely to me that he would have cemented two pairings from the same obscure book.)

Yes, but extrapolate… why is FOY on lock with its V pairing? Why is Roanoke on lock with its V pairing? Why is Boston on lock with its V pairing? Is it possible that while we likely know the potential locations for different potential V/I combos, that the only thing we lack is the solution to a line or two that makes the V/I pairing, and thus most probable location, definitive?

Glossiphoniidae

Yes, but extrapolate… why is FOY on lock with its V pairing? Why is Roanoke on lock with its V pairing?

Multiple quotes from signs combined with other identifiable connections. (I admit “near this site” along with BPs “St Louis” hint has won me over to V2 for NO. But I’m not seeing this for Charleston or SF, and I’d still hesitate to rule out V7 for NO entirely.)

Unknown

Unknown:
The worst case scenario, I’m just wrong,

With all due respect, you are wrong…about Vancouver, and Oregon, and any of the other off the wall locations that you are proposing. The good news is that’s not the worst case scenario, it’s actually the best. Because once you accept that, and move back to the more conventional solves, you might be able to use your considerable talents for finding things on the internet to looking for things that will actually advance the puzzles along.
Almost without exception, Preiss made simple connections between what he saw as he walked and photographed the streets, trails, paths, and parks of the twelve cities in question. Look at Chicago: set in stone, Congress, L sits, fence, 10×13. All extremely literal clues with at most, one degree of separation. Look at Cleveland: Road curves, rectangular plot, columns, 7 steps, Pindar. Same thing. Milwaukee: Nature, copper, 92 steps, compass, 100 paces SE. A little more poetic, but still no more than one degree of separation.
These were the first three puzzles he did, and they established the blueprint, and set the methodology for the rest. Sure he made subtle changes as he went along, adding and omitting things as the locations and Palencar’s drawings warranted. But what did not change, and what you need to accept, is that the Verse is a simple road map to a specific spot in the ground. It doesn’t require research, and it doesn’t rely on tenuous connections between unrelated objects (again, almost without exception). It just requires you to be in the right starting place, and follow the clues using common sense, and just a little bit of your imagination.

WhiteRabbit

Multiple quotes from signs combined with other identifiable connections. (I admit “near this site” has won me over to V2 for NO.)

Is there not a single clue in each, though, that makes it definitive?

Euhirudinea

It doesn’t require research, and it doesn’t rely on tenuous connections between unrelated objects (again, almost without exception).

I would venture to say that it NEVER relies on tenuous connections. Even with Abroad in America, even if you chose NOT to accept the confirmatory quote, finding the treasure (would)did not RELY on you “solving” that clue. But what did that clue do, then?

Glossiphoniidae

Is there not a single clue in each, though, that makes it definitive?

I don’t know; I guess a distinctive quote would be the best lead, but I can’t think that a single one would be entirely convincing unless it was clearly unique and the rest of the verse was also a decent fit. (And that’s a quote from a sign, not a book.) So, no, it’s multiple lines that seal the deal for me on those.

R., have you joined the hat-eaters club? Which style hat do you prefer? Sauce? I can recommend a few good beer options to wash it down if Im ever proven right.
Yeah, I see the directness side to the clues tbat led to the Cleveland and Chicago solves, but I think there’s an enigmatic side also and thats what makes Byron Preiss special. I felt this was true the moment I read Preiss’ First Crazy Word book about Verbs (1982). It’s demonstrates something very key about how serious he is about word usage.

WhiteRabbit

I don’t know; I guess a distinctive quote would be the best lead, but I can’t think that a single one would be entirely convincing unless it was clearly unique. (And that’s a quote from a sign, not a book.)

… Seems like you have a couple types of clues there that definitively locked a verse to an image for you – a quote from a book, and an indisputable quote from a sign. I wonder if those types of clues could lock any other images to verses? I wonder if we could take it to a more basic level and just say, “quotes.” Hmm… any other verses have quotes that we know of? Any other verses maybe have another “type” of clue that definitely links an I and a V? Maybe does/could that type of clue be found in other images or verses to make a definitive connection?

Glossiphoniidae

Any other verses maybe have another “type” of clue that definitely links an I and a V? Maybe does/could that type of clue be found in other images or verses to make a definitive connection?

But there are ambiguities. Take V7. Charleston has a quote for Edwin and a plaque for May 1913. SF has a plaque for another Edwin who links to May 1913, and a plaque for RLS.
BP references a book called “Pierre, or The Ambiguities”. He knows about ambiguities. They’re deliberate. There are false trails.

Unknown

Unknown:
I don’t know what image/verse combinations you prefer

I am 100% certain that Verse 4 goes with Chicago and Verse 12 goes with Cleveland. I am 99.9% certain that Verse 1 goes with Houston, Verse 2 goes with New Orleans, Verse 6 goes with Charleston, Verse 8 goes with Milwaukee, Verse 9 goes with St. Augustine, and Verse 11 goes with Roanoke. I am 99% sure that Verse 3 goes with Boston, Verse 5 goes with Montreal, Verse 7 goes with San Francisco, and Verse 10 goes with New York. Oddly enough, I believe that NY, Boston, and Montreal were the second set of three that Preiss did, and fearing that he had made the first three too easy, ramped up the difficulty factor considerably. That is why we have made, relatively speaking, considerably less progress on those three cities.
I will change my view when someone presents compelling evidence to the contrary. But recently, all I’ve seen is a lot of hand wringing over how hard these puzzles are, and how much of a struggle it is to make even small advances. Frequently, these comments are made by people who, IMO, show an alarming lack of understanding of how the puzzles are constructed. Which I find hilarious considering that almost everything you need to know is contained in this archive. Somewhere.

Euhirudinea

Verse 5 goes with Montreal

If you’re right, I feel this should be the focus. I’ve seen very little on it. AFAIK the only link that’s been made here is the old Salvation Army citadel in legeater lane.

Unknown

Unknown:
R., have you joined the hat-eaters club?

I don’t think so. Those so called haters either have you on ignore, or are openly mocking you and your ideas. I am doing neither. I will continue to read all your posts, and I will comment when I think an idea has merit. And continue to hope that someday, the thing that we have all been trying to tell you (going on 29 pages now) will finally sink in. What can I say, I’m an optimist.

WhiteRabbit

But there are ambiguities. Take V7. Charleston has a quote for Edwin and a plaque for May 1913. SF has a plaque for another Edwin who links to May 1913, and a plaque for RLS.
BP references a book called “Pierre, or The Ambiguities”. He knows about ambiguities. They’re deliberate. There are false trails.

Seems like you have pointed out three quotes – ambiguities, edwin and edwina, who build palaces – which definitively link a verse to a city. And look, there are other types of clues in those verses that are so strong, quotes in fact, we can say they
reinforce
, just like the image does, the fact that we are using the right verse with the right image/city.
Do we see this method displayed in any other verses and/or images?
What if we couldn’t find this method displayed in some images and verses? Does that mean it’s not there, or maybe just that it is still too obscure – even with the internet?
Or, perhaps those verses utilize another type of linking method, which might be common amongst a few of the puzzles that couldn’t be definitely linked and reinforced using the first method.

WhiteRabbit

If you’re right, I feel this should be the focus. I’ve seen very little on it. AFAIK the only link that’s been made here is the old Salvation Army citadel in Legeater lane.

I’ve seen four independent theories on V5 P9. (2 theories came from non-q4t sources.) The oddest thing I’ve seen is someone using V10 P9 to get to the same spot basic spot in Dorchester as someone using V5 P9.
This tells me there’s either a hellish amount of ambiguity or someone isn’t really carring how the verse reads…

erexere

The oddest thing I’ve seen is someone using V10 P9 to get to the same spot basic spot in Dorchester as someone using V5 P9. This tells me there’s either a hellish amount of ambiguity or someone isn’t really carring how the verse reads…

Or, it tells you they are taking liberties with the images and verses that they shouldn’t be.

Glossiphoniidae

And look, there are other types of clues in those verses that are so strong, quotes in fact, we can say they
reinforce
, just like the image does, the fact that we are using the right verse with the right image/city.

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I still think V6 SF is just as plausible as V7 SF. I don’t reckon SF, Montreal or Charleston are in the bag yet. Like I say, V5 Montreal isn’t even off the starting block.

BTW… keep all this in the context of linking an image to a verse, and not a verse to a digspot.

Unknown

Unknown:
If you’re right, I feel this should be the focus.

If I’m right, it’s as much by default as anything else. I believe with almost 100% certainty that there is a casque in Montreal, and I believe that all the other Verses are spoken for. I also believe that without feet on the ground in Montreal, the chances that this casque will ever be recovered are slim. That is why it is not a focus for me at this time.

WhiteRabbit

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I still think V6 SF is just as plausible as V7 SF.

Unknown

Unknown:
What if we couldn’t find this method displayed in some images and verses? Does that mean it’s not there, or maybe just that it is still too obscure – even with the internet?
Or, perhaps those verses utilize another type of linking method, which might be common amongst a few of the puzzles that couldn’t be definitely linked and reinforced using the first method.

I think you haven’t asked yourself or answered the questions:

WhiteRabbit

I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree. I still think V6 SF is just as plausible as V7 SF. I don’t reckon SF, Montreal or Charleston are in the bag yet. Like I say, V5 Montreal isn’t even off the starting block.

Is V7 with P2 also plausible?

Unknown

Unknown:
I think we’ll just have to agree to disagree.

What exactly are we disagreeing on? With the exception of Chicago and Cleveland, none of the other solves are in the bag. All I’m really trying to say is that I don’t think in those remaining cases, we have fully resolved what I consider to be the most likely solutions. And I have seen scant evidence of any compelling theories to the contrary. I will consider them when I do. But I can’t and won’t waste my time looking for alternatives, when I think the most reasonable solutions have not been fully explored and rejected.

erexere

Is V7 with P2 also plausible?

Outside of the context of
BP’s
structure of clues, absolutely. They are all possible. But that’s the secret – you have to contain yourself to BP’s clue structure; otherwise, lots is possible. Get basic, let him bound you to a place using obvious methods… don’t be scared off by the simplicity of in-your-face clues.

Unknown

Unknown:
Is V7 with P2 also plausible?

Image 2 is Charleston without dispute. If you think that Verse 7 will lead you to a dig spot in that city, advance the theory. But before you try, you might want to explain away the “Edwin and Edwina” line in Verse 6.

maltedfalcon

I don’t count SELOY as a real clue.

stercox

SELOY
…is the name of the old indian village that the FOY park sits on.  There is a sign at the park referencing this.  A major acrostic clue!!  And it was right in front of us all the time!!  Just goes to show you, new clues can be found even when you’ve studied it for years.

Dude, you’ve been reading too many of Erexere’s posts. You’re slipping away.
Like “Shell, limestone” and “Silver salt”, “Seloy” appears on a plaque at FOY, the one at the base of the Saturiwa statue.
I don’t know when it dates from, but if it was post-1982, it must surely have appeared somewhere else. It was before 2013 anyway, because Stercox posted about it in 2007.
Blooming casque was probably buried right next to it.

I’ve had many assessments of theme (guesses) associated with each image. I’ve recently come to believe JJP really was in the dark and very limited in any creative input. His task was to preserve a set of specific instructions. Preiss has 100% creative control, like a play writer or director, he assembled the dramatis personae and setting with a particular goal in mind: 1) what place would each type of Fair Folk choose to best suit a gem location?, 2) how can a specific method for location be conveyed?.
We’ve all reverse or mock engineered many possibilities. Its a big challenge tracking what BP had in mind and what resources we are limited to exploring given the date of his plot. I think he didn’t develop all that preamble (the emmigration, story, LotJ) for nothing. He fully involved specific Fair Folk ideas to develop 12 separate methodologies. Dwarves will hide their jewels according to their masonry skills (just exploring an example), Gnomes will find their best gardens, Elves their best trees, Giants find that which reminds them of thunder and lightning, African tree spirits love the heart of wood and the storage of water, Nymphs love columns and springs, the Hadas love the exploration of sea and land, the Rusalki like the rain and rainbows, the Dragon is perhaps best associated to a beast from Hell, and the Djinn would be found close to their topper and bottle…
just exploring some origins from which themes may explain BPs process. The second task is how to locate something. A T or X or I or the center of a circle…the highest or lowest point in the landscape, centered between 2 or more points, the middle of a V, a specific count on a grid like a wall of bricks or a copse of trees, or beneath a specific overhead object, or next to something immediately at its base.
I love the possibilities. I believe there are hints in each puzzle that bring each seeker to these conclusions.

Many people have made comparisons to this statue plaque and image 10, I think White Rabbit has a whole webpage on it actually. You feel it’s just a coincidence then? It is a similar pose, right hand in the same position, head looking the same way…the background on the plaque on the statue also matches the image background color wise, you could say it’s coincidence but I can’t be sure…it might just be another city indicator. I did not check to see if the plaque is a reproduction of a painting in the art museum or the public museum.

decibalnyc

…You feel it’s just a coincidence then? I

I said I
DIDN’T
think it was just coincidence.

Ok so if I am reading you right, you feel there was some sort of “routine” he had for all of these…maybe a research routine on each city that possibly was a starting point for the images. I would agree that he had to have some way to start, save an extensive personal knowledge of each city. That makes a lot of sense. Do you think there was any deeper meaning to it, or do you think he just needed to start somewhere so he had a routine of checking out a few museums and the library in every town?
Also on a separate note…I was having a discussion with a friend and the topic of Chicago came up. Does anyone know how the verse for Chicago was matched up with the image? I thought about this, and there is really nothing in that verse that screams Chicago. I would be curious if Tenbythirteen would share the story of how he determined that Verse 12 went with image 5.

No, I am not proposing there was a routine, I am just pointing out that there seems to be prominent works of art from the local museums in many of the images. This makes sense, IMO, not because the museum helped BP choose a spot or a starting point, but because people use to visit the local museum when they visited a city. Especially scholars. It used to be the fun thing to do before the internets. Perhaps the inclusion is used in only some puzzles, maybe all. It’s not necessarily a proposition of method.

Do you think that when he was designing the quest as a whole, he premeditated this? There perhaps would be people who would go after multiple cities. Upon finding the city in the image, they would need to figure out the verse. In 1982 you would need to visit a library to find out more about the city to try and attribute it to the verse. Also I would buy into the museum theory. Proximity of art museums to treasure grounds maybe an interesting thing to look into.
I am very curious as to how he found his starting points for these cities. It might help to find some methodology. What can we attribute to New Orleans in this fashion? If we can say it is at least somewhere in Lafayette Park, does anything in the image relate to a museum near that park?

decibalnyc

What can we attribute to New Orleans in this fashion? If we can say it is at least somewhere in Lafayette Park, does anything in the image relate to a museum near that park?

I threw out a theory a while back showing the clues leading to the Dueling Oak, right beside NOMA.

I liked that theory.

Something that isn’t often discussed is the use of enjambment in the verses.  The sense that two lines go together or stand apart is often very interesting.

Had a new notion recently, if image 8 (casque
is in part to do with Wilt Chamberlain, suggesting that the “whistle sound” is to do with Basketball and the reason for the deep referencing notion is in his nickname “The Big Dipper”, a method for using two points to find a third, then might that translate into the possibility of finding similar such references in the other casque locations?
Face it folks, there’s a lot of supposition, but there’s a lot more stagnation of beliefs and people are contending more with narrowmindedness and giving in to consensus or worshiping occams razor like an omnipresent oracle than allowing for real considerations.  Jsp recently put up an extremely thoughful and honest post about his vies on image 11/verse 3 as a St. Louis consideration.  It was one of the most excellent posts on this site.  It’s important to lay out your considerations with respect to the puzzle as a whole.  Many posters have done that in the past and it has helped by revealing some huge gaps in theory and practice.  We constantly contend with our subjectivity and an unconfirmed view of Preiss’ methodology.  Where people say something is “likely” is where people are misrepresenting the facts.  We simply don’t know where Preiss stood, or what latitude in artistic interpretation from Palencar was acceptable for the purpose of the puzzle.  The words themselves of the verses are more precise than the images, imho.  Few people have gone as deep into lingual things as shecrab, forestblight, or even four21thrasher.  There’s many approaches to consider when it comes to the words: etymological, literal, metaphorical, homographical, idiomatical, or even my occasional randomaniacal approach (verse 9…).  The difference between what is cryptic-enough and overly-cryptic is difficult to see at times.  I’ve recently learned to appreciate the stark literal sense of things where the only thing that makes something crytic is our own common or assuming nature, in other words, things which are hiding in plain sight.  Isn’t in an eye opener to consider that the word ‘friendship’ may be a plain and simple unequivolcal way of suggesting the word ‘steward’?  It really starts to look clearer after awhile if we abandon our stagnating or common understandings and pause for a meta based convention where Preiss’ clever verse construction tells us quite plainly where and how things are hidden.
I love that Wilt Chamberlain plainly has nothing to do with Houston.  I arrive at his name through a multistep process, but it’s just a solution like any other, and if I see a good reason to through it out, so be it, but if it stands as a reasonable conclusion, “likely” or “unlikely”, having a supportive role to the consistency, self-consistency rather, of that particular location, and leaving absolutely NO gaps in theory, then we have something to look into.  It still might be wrong, or subject to a perturbation in the environment, thus even if we are right, having no recoverability.  All I can say is, wow, Wilt + Chamberlain…, really??  What does that mean for the other locations?
Even without catering to my Oregon theory, thematically image6/verse 5 gives a clear introduction, pertaining to a road, a view of a night illuminated granite structure, a windy environment, near a volcanic area, high up overlooking water area, and something to do with Spannish exploration.  Fortunate for me, every one of the points in the resulting criteria are met by the spot in Corbett.  From a reverse hypothetical approach, the Corbett spot is merely a memorial to one of the most significant contributers to road building in the nation, it’s a spot along a route journaled about by Lewis and Clark, it’s also a spot sharing a major, and I mean MAJOR, story in Native American legend, having to do with the Bridge of the Gods.  This isn’t simply one small tribes lore, but a lore shared by the entire network of Native Americans historically, though each particular tribe tailors the story somewhat differently, because volcanic erruptions were major events.  (Bigmatty, it’s okay if you want to drop in and explain how volcanic erruptions aren’t major events, you’re expertise at marginalizing is a major contribution to these forums).  So, apart from the details, the way in which image6/verse5 pertains to some topic or clue like image8/verse1 does with Wilt Chamberlain, I would have to say it’s where “King of the Road” meets “King of the Mountain”.
Casque 1, San Francisco, a major component in the background is the prison in a mountain beneath a sky with many celestial bodies, and in the foreground a strong asian perspective conveying mysticism or fortune telling.  I’m like, where’s that scrap of paper hiding in the middle of that cookie…”GOOD NEWS FROM AFAR WILL BRING YOU A WELCOME VISITOR”.  It’s hard to separate my bias at this point, but I’ll try anyways, I think there’s some thematic points that are designed to influence a positive outcome: the fortune cookie is the last thing that sits on the table and like a rose, beautiful to see, fragrant, but may also have thorns.  Will the scrap of paper have good news or bad news?  We sit at the table after our meal, filled full, what’s next?  We ponder.  We pay.  We see what the future holds in small twisted sweet cookie.  I think something in this point of view is designed to inspire a person to perceive the Palace of the Legion of Honor as a place having to do with great fortune.  I think the bench from which we end up sitting to face the shape of crossed arms in the old tree limbs is part of the persistent theme of sitting and pondering.
I’d like to put down more thoughts on the other locations, but it’s time to take a break.  Maybe someone will step in and discuss some of these points in the meantime.

Found: Cleveland & Chicago
Likely contenders: New Orleans, New York, San Francisco, Milwaukee, Boston, Charlestown
How again does Corbett fit on a list of major cities again? It just seems…very improbable.

fox

Found: Cleveland & Chicago
Likely contenders: New Orleans, New York, San Francisco, Milwaukee, Boston, Charlestown
How again does Corbett fit on a list of major cities again? It just seems…very improbable.

Your ignorance fits in wherever you like.
The theoretical framework Ive elaborated on just takes us to a specific spot.  You seem to like really huge gaps and generalizations.
Don’t take this as belligerence, it’s more like edgy criticism.  Major cities?  Is that what the consensus agrees on?  If that’s a legitimate constraint then go for it.  St. Augustine is a hugely popular destination for tourists, which is why I have some nice collectible souvenirs from there, but I disagree that it’s a major city.  Corbett is like a farmland, but that doesn’t chage the FACT that historically significant elements exist.
Everytime I carefully evaluate the details of what everyone has posted about FOY I still see it as a random assortment of pickings and choosings with imposings of preference.  The sign at the entrance is a great find.  It begins things.  The planetarium and the weather vane are nice associations, but the method of discovery is still a huge mystery.  Who cares where the green fence was or is.  Try imagining a green fence anywhere you want and you will still have to explain how things work in a way comparable to how precise Preiss himself expected these to be found.  Precision…maybe that’s just my own imposition.  My point is nobody seems to be working towards an absolute answer.  There’s a lot of guesswork being applied and tossing the words “likely” or “probable” around is often misleading.

Casque 1, maybe a better way to put it is to look at the table and notice the rose and the clock.  When you’re done eating you’re food (chinese), what is SWEET like the smell of a rose when it is TIME to pay?  A fortune cookie.  What location in San Francisco is most associated with “fortune”.  Palace of the Legion of Honor.

I believe the visual size of a clue and its nearness to the center of the painting are important factors.
The fence in Chicago’s Grant Park is good size relatively speaking. The casque found very close by the fence. The Cleveland columns are good size but are on the bottom edge. The monolithic wall is very recognizable, good sized and near the center; casque found right next to wall.
Image 10, very large shape in cloak would seem to indicate the casque is near that visual. Preferably this clue is rightside up. If this is intended as a much harder puzzle, rotation and/or mirroring might be a good way to increase difficulty.

fox

I’m not quite sure where I stand on this dilemma. On the one hand, I must concur with maltedfalcon. The hunt must go on. We will prevail again. I like to think that I played a big part in the Cleveland casque being found by Sir Egg since I got the group together for this elusive adventure.
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=99.0
. I really believe as a group  :group) we can succeed.

forest_blight

I find the idea of asking JJP for anything like a clue is a horrible idea. So what if it takes another 30 years? So what if some of them are beyond recovery? Eventually we’ll find more casques. The feeling of victory will be the sweeter for the wait.
As far as I’m concerned, the rules of the game are still in force, since BP never changed them. The rules never said anything about asking the artist for hints. Getting hints or locations now would ruin the fun for everybody, forever.
The only thing I would be on board with is prevailing upon JJP to record what he remembers — locations, instructions, city names, photos, offhand comments from BP… whatever. And storing them somewhere amid his belongings with instructions to preserve (but not release) the information. But I adamantly
would not
want to see them. I’d just like to know that somewhere, the knowledge exists.
My $.02.

Thanks, Fox, for that thread link.  That made me smile.  It was like watching the “pilot” episode of a wonderful TV show.
Well, FB, I also was thinking that JJP should write down his knowledge somewhere.  However, if he does do that, then when he dies, the solutions will be revealed in all likelihood, and the hunt will be over.  Maybe we do not want that to happen.  This is a very difficult dilemma.  Let’s assume this hunt goes on for decades more if we do not get the answers from somewhere.  JJP is not a young man.  He may not last another 40 years.  So, if he does not write his knowledge down, it will be lost forever, and we are basically the only group that could prevent that from happening.
I have been thinking about this a lot.  Perhaps, not now, but maybe 20 years from now, we will have better technology than “ground penetrating radar,” that will allow us to “see” what is under the ground clearly, even if the “site confirmers” are no longer there.  So, perhaps with the passage of time, our ability to find the casques will actually increase.
Okay, I am “changing my vote.”  I do not want to ask JJP to do anything.

maltedfalcon

The reason this Hunt has gone on for this long is the only answers are finding a casque. How much fun have you had with it.
who are you to deny the next group of hunters to come along the fun and  possibility of finding a casque (or what remains of one)
If you get “close enough” but don’t really solve it and demand the answer – you are taking away from the person who might have actually solved it.

Hmmm.  I see your point.  I forgot what I once said – looking for the treasure is just as much fun as finding it.

I find the idea of asking JJP for anything like a clue is a horrible idea. So what if it takes another 30 years? So what if some of them are beyond recovery? Eventually we’ll find more casques. The feeling of victory will be the sweeter for the wait.
As far as I’m concerned, the rules of the game are still in force, since BP never changed them. The rules never said anything about asking the artist for hints. Getting hints or locations now would ruin the fun for everybody, forever.
The only thing I would be on board with is prevailing upon JJP to record what he remembers — locations, instructions, city names, photos, offhand comments from BP… whatever. And storing them somewhere amid his belongings with instructions to preserve (but not release) the information. But I adamantly
would not
want to see them. I’d just like to know that somewhere, the knowledge exists.
My $.02.

forest_blight

I find the idea of asking JJP for anything like a clue is a horrible idea. So what if it takes another 30 years? So what if some of them are beyond recovery? Eventually we’ll find more casques. The feeling of victory will be the sweeter for the wait.
As far as I’m concerned, the rules of the game are still in force, since BP never changed them. The rules never said anything about asking the artist for hints. Getting hints or locations now would ruin the fun for everybody, forever.
The only thing I would be on board with is prevailing upon JJP to record what he remembers — locations, instructions, city names, photos, offhand comments from BP… whatever. And storing them somewhere amid his belongings with instructions to preserve (but not release) the information. But I adamantly
would not
want to see them. I’d just like to know that somewhere, the knowledge exists.
My $.02.

bigmattyh

Also, remember that the finders of the original casque in Chicago
still needed BP’s help
to find it, less than two years after the hunt started.

That is true, however that was BPs decision to stretch the rules, and he did it to generate interest in the book.
His hunt, his rules, and before he died he made it clear. let it go on.
and the only way to know if you were correct was to find a casque.

I believe most, if not all, of the remaining 10 casques are irretrievable, for one reason or another. So many of the natural landmarks — i.e., trees, etc. — are just plain gone. Other sites — i.e., the Houston Children’s Zoo, maybe even Copley Square — have been significantly redeveloped. Who even knows what damage Katrina did. Either the casques themselves are gone, or the clues and confirmers leading to them are gone. And there’s just no way to find them now.
Maybe the “solutions” that have been come up with here are way off. But I don’t think they are. I keep bringing up that even the Chicago casque required BP’s help to be found — and this was less than 2 years after the hunt began. Egbert’s casque may really have been the last to be found. If you think of the location of it, it was set up, off from the ground, in a large planter that was out of the way. It’s unlikely that the rest are going to be that lucky.
The way I see it, the “fun” at this point would be in figuring out if any of the solutions were correct, and then moving on to another hunt.

Unknown

Unknown:
If you think of the location of it, it was set up, off from the ground, in a large planter that was out of the way.

I think he buried the casques in locations where he could not be interrupted. For example at FOY there is a place in the corner of the car park on the outside of the fence behind bushes.

FB i like that idea, JJP lives about 40mile from me,i ran into him at a art show, at the college about
5yr ago, and it took all i had, not to talk about the hunt, yes i was a little afraid i would say something
and he would confirm, thats when i knew i dont want it like that, but for posterity, it would be nice if
he would keep his notes/work on the book, and maybe the next gen could look at the notes on the
50th anniversary in 2031, but i fear by that time, a lot more change will have happenned, and the next
gen prob wont fig it out even with notes. ill be about 80 on the hunts 50th,id like to see another dug up
b4 then. like i said b4,the clev casque, i never got it and im familar with those gardens and the TT
downtown, i think i worked on it for about 4yr b4 my book got packed in aunts attic and not found until
just a few yrs ago, hell i just found it again it was misplaced when i did some work painting ect. in the
home office a few months ago. maybe we could write him and see if he knows folks are still on the hunt
and see what he thinks about notes for posterity

I’m not quite sure where I stand on this dilemma. On the one hand, I must concur with maltedfalcon. The hunt must go on. We will prevail again. I like to think that I played a big part in the Cleveland casque being found by Sir Egg since I got the group together for this elusive adventure.
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=99.0
. I really believe as a group
we can succeed. On the other hand, there have been some very convincing arguments for looking for help. Not exact directions to all unfound casques, just perhaps a little nudge in the right direction. I have said over and over again that the only thing keeping us from unearthing these casques is the passage of time. So much has changed. Have we dug in the exact spot only to come up empty handed? No one knows. I am convinced we are close…very close to several of these casques but is Mother Nature now against us? Argh…..

Unknown

Unknown:
do we really think that 1.5-2′ down would not be deep enough to see/feel the box?

See? That depends. But it’s easy enough to probe the empty hole completely to make sure there isn’t something substantial in the vicinity, which cuts down somewhat on the uncertainty. The question is what exactly are we probing for?
If Preiss didn’t bury the northern casques (four remaining) below the frost line (averaging about 36″), then it’s a good bet that after 35 winters, we are looking for pieces of ceramic and plexiglass instead of intact boxes. And a probe is more likely to miss that. IMO, the likelihood of finding an intact box, even after 35 years, is much greater for the 6 southern casques, all other things being equal.

Let’s talk about the relative value of the gems and the complexity of each puzzle. I believe it was stated at one point that the more valuable the gem, the more difficult the puzzle would be. I tend to agree, with some caveats.
Thanks to drunknerds for originally putting together this first list:
Approximate values of gems
1 (SF) – Pearl $200-$500 each
2 (Charleston) – Diamond $1,000-$20,000/kt
3 (Roanoke) – Garnet $500-$2000/kt
4 (Cleveland) – Aquamarine $100-$300/kt
5 (Chicago) – Emerald $500-$1100/kt
6 (St. Augustine) – Sapphire $1000-$2000/kt
7 (New Orleans) – Turquoise <$500 /kt
8 (Houston) – Ruby $300-$3000/kt
9 (Montreal) – Opal – ~ $1000/kt
10 (Milwaukee) – Amethyst Like $50/kt.
11 (Boston) – Peridot $50-$400/kt
12 (New York) – Topaz $200-$1500/kt
My interpretation of the order.
In order of relative complexity of puzzles
4 (Cleveland) – Aquamarine $100-$300/kt
5 (Chicago) – Emerald $500-$1100/kt
10 (Milwaukee) – Amethyst Like $50/kt.
7 (New Orleans) – Turquoise <$500 /kt
1 (SF) – Pearl $200-$500 each
11 (Boston) – Peridot $50-$400/kt
8 (Houston) – Ruby $300-$3000/kt
9 (Montreal) – Opal – ~ $1000/kt
12 (New York) – Topaz $200-$1500/kt
6 (St. Augustine) – Sapphire $1000-$2000/kt
3 (Roanoke) – Garnet $500-$2000/kt
2 (Charleston) – Diamond $1,000-$20,000/kt
Discuss

I dont know about this jewel value thing.
We expect images to contain visual evidence of nearby visuals. Whether its an whole outline, a negative space shape, or some reduced percentage of partial contour of some object, like just half of a shape, those things will certainly pop into perspective once we find the right scene as it wouldve been in 1982. The verse introduces so much more complexity.
Boston might be the least complex given the admission for the Japanese edition. Any hint at all wouldve given it away? Seems like he thought it was easier than the others. The quote from Melville’s Piere-the Ambiguities popped into his mind for some reason. Perhaps that is to become a question for the puzzle worker: identify the quote source, and then figure out why it was selected.
It seems evident that Preiss is using a highly symbolic scheme to identify method-centric ideas that apply to how to orient the perspective on the dig spot. Also, not all lines are equal, so it becomes really challenging testing or hypothesizing for each line. Everytime he mentions rain or water in the sky, I want to translate that into a roof, gutter, cistern or something which directly interacts with rainfall. The riddles themselves in the verses add extra complexity too.
Maybe the value of a jewel has more to do with the scarcity for that fair folk’s cultural link. Africa is a big producer if diamonds, so maybe that brings the value down a notch compared to some of the others. I just dont know how to get a read on a value comparison yet.

erexere

I dont know about this jewel value thing.
We expect images to contain visual evidence of nearby visuals. Whether its an whole outline, a negative space shape, or some reduced percentage of partial contour of some object, like just half of a shape, those things will certainly pop into perspective once we find the right scene as it wouldve been in 1982. The verse introduces so much more complexity.
Boston might be the least complex given the admission for the Japanese edition. Any hint at all wouldve given it away? Seems like he thought it was easier than the others. The quote from Melville’s Piere-the Ambiguities popped into his mind for some reason. Perhaps that is to become a question for the puzzle worker: identify the quote source, and then figure out why it was selected.
It seems evident that Preiss is using a highly symbolic scheme to identify method-centric ideas that apply to how to orient the perspective on the dig spot. Also, not all lines are equal, so it becomes really challenging testing or hypothesizing for each line. Everytime he mentions rain or water in the sky, I want to translate that into a roof, gutter, cistern or something which directly interacts with rainfall. The riddles themselves in the verses add extra complexity too.
Maybe the value of a jewel has more to do with the scarcity for that fair folk’s cultural link. Africa is a big producer if diamonds, so maybe that brings the value down a notch compared to some of the others. I just dont know how to get a read on a value comparison yet.

I like this. You know, I’ve wondered why this thread is not the most popular. Everyone wants to rush into the image and verse threads, but there is little discussion regarding methodology.
Before I comment more on the value of the gems, I’d like to hear some more people’s thoughts on it.

gManTexas

Before I comment more on the value of the gems, I’d like to hear some more people’s thoughts on it.

Gem value is dependent on too many variables in my opinion.
Monetary values are dependent on the size and quality of the gems. We haven’t the slightest clue of those details with the remaining gems. So how can we really set a ranking order of monetary value without that information?
Desirability is relative. Part of these puzzles and associated gems are related to a month. Someone (like in Egbert’s case) may want to solve a specific puzzle because the gem corresponds to their birthstone.
My wife, on the other hand, would only have interest in the diamond puzzle (self-explanatory)…
What are you trying to establish with this process? Since Boston and NY (just examples) seem to be harder puzzles, so their gems are of higher size and quality because their specific gems are lower on the precious gem food chain?
Personally, the most valuable gem to me would be the Peridot. The only reason why is it happens to be part of the puzzle that corresponds to the city I walk aimlessly around each day.

BINGO

Gem value is dependent on too many variables in my opinion.
Monetary values are dependent on the size and quality of the gems. We haven’t the slightest clue of those details with the remaining gems. So how can we really set a ranking order of monetary value without that information?
Desirability is relative. Part of these puzzles and associated gems are related to a month. Someone (like in Egbert’s case) may want to solve a specific puzzle because the gem corresponds to their birthstone.
My wife, on the other hand, would only have interest in the diamond puzzle (self-explanatory)…
What are you trying to establish with this process? Since Boston and NY (just examples) seem to be harder puzzles that their gems are of higher size and quality because their specific gems are lower on the precious gem food chain?
Personally, the most valuable gem to me would be the Peridot. The only reason why is happens to be part of the puzzle that corresponds to the city I walk aimlessly around each day.

I agree with what you are saying, and for a while I speculated that the Pearl in SF was out of this world expensive because that puzzle drove me crazy. I am thinking in more general terms, the valuation of gems like street value for a given size. We assume that Turquoise is less expensive than a diamond or sapphire. Not taking into account the desire to solve a particular puzzle or a birth month, the list should be relatively straightforward.
Now, since I have to run off for a bit, I think that Roanoke is one of the most difficult puzzles based on both the puzzle itself and the Garnet. For centuries, Garnets were considered the most expensive and sought after gems. The gems of royalty. It fits with the time period that the Colony at Roanoke existed. Garnets today are very cheap. So yes, perceptions change over time, but have been relatively static for the last 100 years or so.
This begs the question, if the value is an indication of complexity, do we use 1981 values or the relative values based on the time periods of the immigration?

Goonie68

Thank you means a lot!

Keep going down this path…
I’m pretty sure it’s correct.

Are there any Jewish people on this board? It might be helpful to know the treatment of time and months according to the Jewish tradition.
Outside of this, I believe it was a nice reinterpretation of the story of the 12 Tribes. Maybe nothing deeper than that, other than the spark of inspiration.

First: the first hint to limit our options in some way.
Second: a close but still distant feature or landmark.
Third: from the perspective of the casque’s immediate location.
Remaining lines describe the coordinating parts.
This seemed to be the best overall fit as an approach for my theories.
V4
First = somewhere to do with Italy (the only single nation which is technically “beneath” and entirely landlocking (having enclave status) exactly two countries: Vatican City and the Republic of San Marino. Second = nearest a curved road
Third = in a small rectangular plot behind the wall
V12
First = anwhere with M and B in stone
Second = nearest road named Congress
Third = over the left shoulder of “L sits” (seated Lincoln statue)”
Doesn’t seem like this idea plays well with some of the other verses, verse 8 for instance.  That Preiss sure was a tricky bugger.

While looking for meaning in the past evidence provided, I’m wondering if there’s a systematic use of geometric lines that compliment each location. Here’s what I’m considering for Chicago:
I’ve highlighted a possibility where the Large Landmark of the iconic Historic Water Tower is essentially a “standpipe” and connects to this small vertical pipe along the fence at the treasure ground. I’ve also considered that there’s some indication that the distance from the two objects in image, while on a single linear path, the transition where the line meets the lining of the giant’s cap might be a division point between two segments that are proportionally fit to “10” and “13”.
I’d love to find some kind of relationship like this to the Cleveland puzzle.

Thanks for the kind comments everyone. I’m hoping to spur some conversation with this document.

Bigmatty, I’ve seen you swoop down with some excellent criticism, but you’ve also brushed aside coherent ideas like they are pointless drivel.  You seem confused about what drives my points.  It’s not easy to come up with a consistent theme, check facts, and suffer a begging style.  You sound equally dismayed about the way I convey my ideas as you are about their substance.
I try to be conscientious about when I offer a rotated image.  I can think of at least three cases where I said “this is a rotated image…” or a split image or a negative and cite the example in Image 4 where the Terminal Tower is negative and upside down.
I did not say with any guarantee that clockboy was the steeple.  I offered it as a comparison only for the reason that it was an option that I considered since the steeple was theoretically visible from a spot on Basin St.  Maltedfalcon quickly obliged by shooting it down, thank you btw, and I backed off of any insistence to the effect and moved on to a new perspective on a different part of the church that actually looked like a better fit.  It remains a consideration.  There is an example of having a constructive engaging interaction.
I’m not interested in persuading my Oregon case as a point in opposition to FOY.  I think FOY is a great theory and I’ve said so more than once.  I brought forth my Oregon theory independently and without regard to FOY.  I’m sorry if it doesn’t meet your standard or taste for a concrete argument.  If it has to be that is the lynchpin in my not being well received then so be it.  I’ve tried to be open and forthcoming about my approach and why I think one thing leads to another.  My essential approach to this puzzle is strictly about looking for a theme, finding a correlation that fits a person, place, or thing and looking for the key factors that inform a method of finding a dig spot.
My premise is only that some puzzles are different than others.  They are all presented with seemingly different variables at work.  Look at the variation in the imagery.  Look at the variation in verse.  Chicago wasn’t exactly like Cleveland.  Taking a fresh perspective without forcing a Chicago/Cleveland method isn’t necessarily wrong.  It’s only an interesting and different approach until we learn a result.
It’s no big deal to me if I have wasted my time or my dollar to find or not find a casque.  What’s more important is sharing the experience of participating in an amazing hunt.  I agree that my theories are way way out of the ordinary, and many of your points are valuable criticism for my consideration, but you have it wrong if you think I haven’t been berated, given guff, or called a troll.
Compassion is about understanding others.  I maintain the view that maltedfalcon is making a choice to use a rigid method and it’s potentially wrong. I give it a 51% chance of being exactly right.  I respect and admire his recent work towards the SF casque.  I didn’t chide him in the least for not finding it.  Of course he’s been around and active much longer than I and he’s generally better received…and also he’s an expert in most fact checking much like shecrab.  As I’ve been evolving my ideas and offering tid bits to evaluate at a fast pace (not saying anyone is slow here…It’s obvious that i’ve been busy), I think it’s become clear to everyone that I’ve fixed my position around here as an outsider and an annoyance.  I spend a good amount of time investigating other folks ideas and I wanted to weigh in on something forest blight said about North Brother Island but I realized it was too difficult to share my view and not seem like I’m touting my entire shelf of misfit theories.  I need to work on that.  He resurfaced a good point of evidence, but it conflicted with two of my theories so much that I simply couldn’t see myself sounding very genuine in my criticism.  It’s a healthy idea, I’ll give it that.
Let’s be clear about methodology but also access that informal quality of having fun and being surprised with wonder and discovery.  Were Chicago and Cleveland so interesting that you would love to see the rest of the casques follow rote application of reverse engineered ideas?  It’s been how long since the last find?  How long since the first?  How much time and dithering does it take to turn up the rest of these casques if they haven’t yet been lost to oblivion?  I can’t say much of a theme presents itself in Image4, which looks like a centaur standing on a wall…pretty darn simplistic.  The only twist there was that there wasn’t an actual centaur statue at the site!  But look at image 8 and tell me you don’t see something deeper.  Image 7 has something really interesting going on.  Image 10 looks every so simple but it has lots of possibility.  Each different image just puzzles so differently that I’m in absolute awe of both JJP and Preiss.  Yet you seem to be saying they are all simple and met with a uniform approach.  As I said before, I can understand and respect that approach.  Please don’t judge me so harshly that I work the 49% option.  I know you’re all paying attention, but are you all understanding?  If each layer beyond you’re standard assessment for what is needed means I’m that much less likely to be right, then that just means my option has shrank, but it is still there as a possibility, so don’t confuse least likely with ‘wrong’ or ‘not possible’.

Unknown

Unknown:
eric said
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h … 27#p119827
I try to be conscientious about when I offer a rotated image.  I can think of at least three cases where I said “this is a rotated image…” or a split image or a negative and cite the
example in Image 4 where the Terminal Tower is negative and upside down
.

not sure if this was ever mentioned,if you turn the img 180,that would put the park and garden
in the right perspective from the T tower, where the garden is if you were standing here
i hope i said that right
http://g.co/maps/r3jg8

cw, that’s really interesting.  Doesn’t it seem like turning around with your back to the Terminal Tower you would be standing at the intersection of W. Superior and Ontario and turned to the Northeast to have the TT just behind your right shoulder as the page shows flipped 180 with TT on the lower right side?  I thought Euclid was the way to go, now it seems taking Superior Ave all the way to the park is almost a straight shot to the Gardens.

I considered that possibility, however superior passes the park, it goes over it, no place to turn, no clue to turn.
With Euclid we are given the turn point at the Triangle.
Also with superior there is no indication which way to go.
however the actual street you are standing on in that image is a one way street which merges onto euclid going toward the park.

cw0909

not sure if this was ever mentioned,if you turn the img 180,that would put the park and garden
in the right perspective from the T tower, where the garden is if you were standing here
i hope i said that right
http://g.co/maps/r3jg8

Thats very cool and consistent with Chicago and  SF(assuming I am right, if you flip the image so the map lines up – Lincolns head – representing lincoln park is now on the correct side of the map. and approximately the correct location.

malt what would be really cool,is if the other 9img followed the same 180 alignment
it would be much easier,if you had a start dir from the start,i may be wrong,i think
wilhouse refered to the img,as needing turned to see the alignment, of X landmark
way back when,and if thats so,thats 4 out of 12,well another casque may get dug
this yr after all,if the 180 alignment idea holds up

Agree. It’s also a way to get even more lost…

bigmattyh

Excellent word!

maltedfalcon

Was it possible that BP and JJP spoke to eachother at some point about dropping a hint or two?  Does it seem legit that JJP would’ve fogotten the significance of the centaurs helmet, given that he came up with the idea for the spot in Cleveland and hes the one who drew the picture?  Why would he even bring it up?  If he intended to deliver a hint, wouldn’t the news article be an opportunity to do so?
Lets apply some critical thinking to this image,
Maltedfalcon, can you explain why you think this parking lot looks like the woman’s head and how its justified to use a rotated image?

erexere — I think it’s worth pointing out that the arch in P4 is a direct link to the Cleveland site:
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/images/ … untain.jpg

Thank you!  I wish I caught that before.  I was really pulling muscles to understand how it might be more than that. That top of the arch feature with the inset gem was cropped out of the image in the Plain Dealer.
The columns, arch, wall, fountain, engraved names, overall rectangular shape of area, cultural origins and roadways wraps up every major detail to which connects the dots to the Cleveland casque.  This has noted or hashed out again and again probably already, but just to be sure of some objective criteria where a reason for each image or verse component will connect to an absolute location, street name, or landmark:
1. Use of a tall widely visable city feature to initialize a roadway as a starting path.
2. Conveyance of any connecting roads to main site.
3. Identifying the path within the main site.
4. Use final details to reveal the precise location.
I believe any combination of words or image can convey any part or portion of each of these four components.  There are many traditional games that have similar goals.  Pictionary, charades, Trivial Pursuit…and even Scrabble, if my hunch is right about Selby.

maltedfalcon

Well thats easy to answer, Because you are incredbily susceptible to pareidolia.

Excellent word!

Another line of interest might be the one connecting Drum Island as depicted on the mask to the jewel. If my guess is right, then the drum barrel (water cistern) next to the old lighthouse is a being hinted out by the faint outline of a curved object next to a tower.
I’m thinking the pendant shaped like Sumter is also a good hint for a shovel. Surely someone has thought of this before.
Methodologically speaking, I think some geometry helps pick a general location on a map, and the same or some other geometric element locates the jewel once identifying the main anchor/perspective to the site.

I just realized my last reply did not post. Thank you for looking at this for me. The intelligence in the community is amazing and I love reading everyone’s posts. A few of you should be working for NASA. Heck, maybe you do!!
In regard, to the flower, the flat disk and the curved petal do not seem random. Do you think that the casque may not be buried in White Point Garden?

WPG is the recommended location according to several seekers, but I think the pros dont outweigh the cons. Hop on over to the Image 2 or verse 6 thread and continue the discussion there.

At least one former member *does* work for NASA.

While looking for meaning in the past evidence provided, I’m wondering if there’s a systematic use of geometric lines that compliment each location.
Hi Erexere!
This is my first post. I have not been around long. I just stumbled on The Secret recently so I won’t burden you with all my thoughts that the rest of you have probably had for years. But I did want to tell you that your posts on the geometric lines has me very intrigued. Do you have any thoughts about this regarding the Charleston image? I realize that the casque maybe unrecoverable due to the hurricane, but if “geometric measurements” are hidden in the image it gives me hope that maybe it could be found. I will be in Charleston in the near future and would love your thoughts.

Hi gajojo,welcome to this forsaken community. I dont have enough confidence in the geometry idea to say its a sure thing. I havent considered the charleston location in a long while. I’ll see what I can come up with and share soon.

Thanks Erexere!
As I mentioned, I am new. Before I had read a lot of old posts, I had decided that the Charleston casque had to be in one of four or five places. I thought I would check out my theory when I am in Charleston just for fun. Then I found a post about the hurricane. Had totally forgotten about that. And then I found a post on another website where someone had already figured out my top choice and another one of my four ideas. So maybe it is lost. Or maybe we are missing something.
As far as I can tell, the Charleston image does not have any blatant land marks drawn in it that identify a specific spot. I, therefore, surmised that the specifics would have to come from the verse. Once I saw that others have followed the verse and still came up empty handed, I saw your posts about the geometric lines. Could there be something in regard to where Fort Sumter is in relation to the diamond? Or the flat disk in the flower? Or the cannons in the moth with the crossed arms underneath it? It seems to me that BP would have put something specific in the picture like the fence in Image 5. Please let me know if I am missing the obvious. And thanks for your help.

I can’t avoid the feeling that I’m picking and choosing arbritary points, so take this as an extremely loose attempt.
I’ve imagined a lot of different approaches to this particular puzzle, but nothing really explains everything. The fact that the Charleston shape and Sumter are really prominent in the image makes it seem most likely that the casque is somewhere close to that geography, which makes my suggestion that the casque is buried on one of the islands near McClellanville a slim chance.
I went with a 120 degree rotation on the image. That seems to match the angle between the two lines on the face of the Sumter necklace pendant. Interestingly, the diamond is now at the top of the image. Working with some line extrapolation, I see the diamond and the pear now share a vertical axis and the pendant and the eye of the lion seem to connect. When I draw that line and look at the rough boundary of the coast it seems to have some similar elements with the painting. It’s all a rough visual, so I’m not overly excited. It’s very hard to expect the painting to act as an overlay to a map. There’s too many creative elements being bunched together to know what makes any one thing an anchor. Right now I’m willing to consider the jewel on the page as a location relative to something else as a line angle correlation such as suggested by the Cleveland or Chicago examples. That too is a loose theory, since it’s possible that although it might work for 2 solves, it doesn’t necessarily mean it works for any others. We simply don’t know if Preiss uses a uniform method or an improvised approach from one to the next.
My work suggests that there’s a thematic connection to the LotJ. Africa’s earthborn diamond connects to a bright harvest. That seems to be a nice lead to draw a line to connect the diamond and the center of the pear (harvesting fruit seems like a simple enough idea). If the eye of the lion connected to the Sumter pendant are to be correlated to a map, then I’m interested in anchoring it to the Sumter location and perhaps using the relative size of the Charleston mainland to establish relative scale. Preserving the slope of that line shows that a Sumter to Cape Romaine is a consideration.

treetops

Verses provide directions from the immediate area within the correct city park

Not quite sure what you mean by this, but I don’t think we can be certain how wide an area the verses cover. The Friendship State seems a plausible interpretation of “Friendship south”, for instance.

I think you’ve got my meaning WhiteRabbit. My assumption has been that the primary use of the verses is to get you from the immediate area of a casque to its precise location and not, for instance, to start you in Oklahoma and prompt you to cross the border into Texas because its motto is “Friendship”. I can see that there are cases where this might not be true of every line in a verse. What I’m responding to are theories where the lines of a verse are taken to refer to disparate sites all around a city, leaving precious little to narrow down the location to a square foot of earth. I also don’t think there are any cases of the verse getting you to the correct park area and the image then pointing to the exact spot to dig.
Again, Roanoke appears most likely to break my assumptions if “Ride the man of oz” is an instruction to take the Thomas A. Baum ferry to the island.

Since this is the methodology thread, I thought I’d share my working “assumptions” document for The Secret. After banging my head against the San Francisco puzzle for a while, I’m trying to step back and take a broader look at what rules apply. I’m basing a lot of this on the two solved casques, as well as the areas that seem to have strong consensus on these forums.
—
CASQUE LOCATIONS
Each casque is buried in a mid-size or large public park in a major city, with the precise location identified relative to trees, bodies of water, or manmade structures.
In theory, correctly interpreting the clues will lead to a single correct dig site, as opposed to an area in which multiple test holes are required. This suggests that each casque is buried either directly beneath a identifiable point on a landmark, or at a distance from a landmark measured in some unit (feet, steps, etc.) or by reference to a second landmark (walk south from A until B is due east).
In practice, human error and movement of landmarks over time might necessitate multiple digs.
Each casque can be located at any time of day or year, without reference to shadows, seasonal decorations, or other transient features.
IMAGES
Each image features a gemstone and flower associated with a birth month. These gems and flowers also link each image to an order in the “Litany of the Jewels” poem and to the immigrant culture listed therein. Imagery in the paintings further confirms each immigrant culture with varying degrees of emphasis. Any further significance to month number or order in the Litany remains unconfirmed.
Each image includes a numeric representation of its month, in the form of a clock or countable items.
Each image includes several distinct clue elements: local landmarks represented literally or as outlines/silhouettes, concealed or prominent numbers, concealed maps, and one confirmed example of a rebus.
Clue elements are often reversed or inverted.
Hidden numbers are often consistent with longitude and latitude coordinates around a likely burial city. Number pairs are often hidden using the same method (both in hair, both in leaves, etc.)
The images include many densely-textured areas: hair, stonework, rocks, branches, water, etc. Because of the amount of detail in these areas, it is easy to construe all sorts of words, maps, and images in them. These findings should be treated as cases of pareidolia unless they irrefutably jump out at multiple viewers with minimal prompting; a side-by-side presentation of the image and the real-world object should be sufficient. Any “hidden” image that requires the application of additional lines and markings in order to be understood should not be taken seriously.
Elements that have not been demonstrated as relevant: color choices; positions of hands and fingers (pointing); elements visible only by foreshortening, folding, “folding-in”, mirroring, or otherwise distorting an image.
VERSES
Verses provide directions from the immediate area within the correct city park.
Phrases like “Fifteen rows down to the ground”; “Take five steps in the area of his direction”; “The end of ten by thirteen” are likely measurements to the final dig position.
If verses describe elements of their related images, this is done sporadically or coincidentally.
There is no regular system of acrostic or anagram using first, last, or other letters in the verses.
Each line should be read as written; there are no invisible periods or other punctuation marks that would radically change the text. For example, verse one should not be read, “Fortress north, cold as glass friendship. South take your task…”
Allusions to famous individuals or events point to plaques or statues in the burial area.
Lone capital letters stand for proper names. No confirmed cases of proper names representing their initial letters.
Named months, hours, or years might represent text on nearby plaques or the numbers themselves (e.g. March=3).
Words indicating degree—tall, nearby, not far, giant—can lead to widely differing landmarks and locations. When in doubt, favor a more extreme case: the wall ten feet away is “nearby”, in preference to an information kiosk across a parking lot.
IMAGE/VERSE PAIRING
There might or might not be a master system for correlating images and verses. The birth months, “Litany of the Jewels” poem, or immigration map could be part of such a system. Any master system must account for the solved pairings of i4/v4 and i5/v12. Master systems that account for strong but unsolved pairings (i8/v1 for instance) will have greater validity.
METHODS NOT USED
The economy of images and verses does not allow for descriptions of long routes leading to burial sites. If an image includes landmarks far from the casque’s immediate location, they are included as city or neighborhood confirmers and not as the starting point of step-by-step directions.
Complex, cryptic crossword style wordplay and substitution is not used. Where wordplay or substitution is indicated, it is a single-step rebus, synonym, or acrostic. For example, “ursine” might lead us to “bear” but would not lead us to bear=bare=naked=a nude sculpture. Anagrams are not used at all.
The portions of the book following the images and verses are completely irrelevant to the treasure hunt.
—

Since this is the
methodology
thread, I thought I’d share my working “assumptions” document for The
Secret
. After banging my head against the San Francisco puzzle for a while, I’m trying to step back and take a broader look at what rules apply. I’m basing a lot of this on the two solved casques, as well as the areas that seem to have strong consensus on these forums.
—
CASQUE LOCATIONS
Each casque is buried in a mid-size or large public park in a major city, with the precise location identified relative to trees, bodies of water, or manmade structures.
In theory, correctly interpreting the clues will lead to a single correct dig site, as opposed to an area in which multiple test holes are required. This suggests that each casque is buried either directly beneath a identifiable point on a landmark, or at a distance from a landmark measured in some unit (feet, steps, etc.) or by reference to a second landmark (walk south from A until B is due east).
In practice, human error and movement of landmarks over time might necessitate multiple digs.
Each casque can be located at any time of day or year, without reference to shadows, seasonal decorations, or other transient features.
IMAGES
Each image features a gemstone and flower associated with a birth month. These gems and flowers also link each image to an order in the “Litany of the Jewels” poem and to the immigrant culture listed therein. Imagery in the paintings further confirms each immigrant culture with varying degrees of emphasis. Any further significance to month number or order in the Litany remains unconfirmed.
Each image includes a numeric representation of its month, in the form of a clock or countable items.
Each image includes several distinct clue elements: local landmarks represented literally or as outlines/silhouettes, concealed or prominent numbers, concealed maps, and one confirmed example of a rebus.
Clue elements are often reversed or inverted.
Hidden numbers are often consistent with longitude and latitude coordinates around a likely burial city. Number pairs are often hidden using the same method (both in hair, both in leaves, etc.)
The images include many densely-textured areas: hair, stonework, rocks, branches, water, etc. Because of the amount of detail in these areas, it is easy to construe all sorts of words, maps, and images in them. These findings should be treated as cases of pareidolia unless they irrefutably jump out at multiple viewers with minimal prompting; a side-by-side presentation of the image and the real-world object should be sufficient. Any “hidden” image that requires the application of additional lines and markings in order to be understood should not be taken seriously.
Elements that have not been demonstrated as relevant: color choices; positions of hands and fingers (pointing); elements visible only by foreshortening, folding, “folding-in”, mirroring, or otherwise distorting an image.
VERSES
Verses provide directions from the immediate area within the correct city park.
Phrases like “Fifteen rows down to the ground”; “Take five steps in the area of his direction”; “The end of ten by thirteen” are likely measurements to the final dig position.
If verses describe elements of their related images, this is done sporadically or coincidentally.
There is no regular system of acrostic or anagram using first, last, or other letters in the verses.
Each line should be read as written; there are no invisible periods or other punctuation marks that would radically change the text. For example, verse one should not be read, “Fortress north, cold as glass friendship. South take your task…”
Allusions to famous individuals or events point to plaques or statues in the burial area.
Lone capital letters stand for proper names. No confirmed cases of proper names representing their initial letters.
Named months, hours, or years might represent text on nearby plaques or the numbers themselves (e.g. March=3).
Words indicating degree—tall, nearby, not far, giant—can lead to widely differing landmarks and locations. When in doubt, favor a more extreme case: the wall ten feet away is “nearby”, in preference to an information kiosk across a parking lot.
IMAGE/VERSE PAIRING
There might or might not be a master system for correlating images and verses. The birth months, “Litany of the Jewels” poem, or immigration map could be part of such a system. Any master system must account for the solved pairings of i4/v4 and i5/v12. Master systems that account for strong but unsolved pairings (i8/v1 for instance) will have greater validity.
METHODS NOT USED
The economy of images and verses does not allow for descriptions of long routes leading to burial sites. If an image includes landmarks far from the casque’s immediate location, they are included as city or neighborhood confirmers and not as the starting point of step-by-step directions.
Complex, cryptic crossword style wordplay and substitution is not used. Where wordplay or substitution is indicated, it is a single-step rebus, synonym, or acrostic. For example, “ursine” might lead us to “bear” but would not lead us to bear=bare=naked=a nude sculpture. Anagrams are not used at all.
The portions of the book following the images and verses are completely irrelevant to the treasure hunt.
—

treetops, do you think there are riddles contained in the verses?

Thank you very much for the excellent response.  It really helps to how there are several options to how we may treat the verses.  I think theres one critical master method that allows a window of opportunity to aim for treasure ground.  Otherwise what is it, blind luck?
Theres a variety of tactics involved in how ive exercised my theories.  Most hover around word origin stuff and a revolving door with Greek mythology.  Ambiguities actually clarify things by narrowing it down somewhat and should one jnique perspective play nice with a theme that ties some or all of the other parts together, then its worth a closer look.  In Cleveland, the LotJ lines talknof nymphs, spring water and use the word sweet.  Ambiguous to an extent, sweet can be applied in multiple ways, anything that is pleasing, or more naturally as a sensation of taste.  Then the idea of spring water has the natural implication of the act of drinking.  To drink one might go to the water source or have it on hand in the form of hydriai, the classic water jug, as discussed in Samuel Birch’s historical book on Ancient Pottery.  Its comfortable to see a Greek based theory identify with Cleveland.  When it comes to the other locations, understandably, it becomes difficult to ascribe such methods.  I think theres some mixing involved, and its not clear to me how all share in the Greek point of view.  SF seems to have the possibility.  Artemis, the goddess, has many symbols to consider that may apply, viginity, the moon, the cypress; the LotJ says “chaste, perfect as the silver moon”.  I consider this a good discovery as it ties in with my bench location on the cypress and eucalyptus lined roadway extending to the Palace of the Legion of Honor.  Ultimately Id like everything to fit a visual clue, but i think its more fruitful to first take a cerebral approach to the verses.
Understand which option of riddle we are facing at each step of the way.  Everything is location and direction, thouh its masked as allusion or an idea.  The final four words of the Pledge of Allegience may be Preiss way of saying “use the American flag or flagpole”.  If any part of your interpretation takes you near such an object, then consider how it may be tied in.  Not everything has to be line of sight either.  We know this from Cleveland and Chicago.  In the end it may be some nook or cranny behind a wall or in the corner of a park.  Theres a lot of power in Preiss words.  They dont have to be vague.  I think we have to consult a dictionary on occasion.  It reveals a lot about how words have changed as a result of migration and mingling among peoples of different cultures.

I like how you think, treetops. But I disagree with your first point under “Casque Locations.” What about Roanoke?

Of course the verses are riddles; each describes a dig site with language that intentionally obscures the solution. The question is, what is the nature of these riddles? What devices do they use? There are riddles based on puns and wordplay (
conundra
), riddles based on allusion and metaphor (
enigmas
), riddles based on math, riddles based on lateral thinking. riddles based on logic, cryptic crosswords based on anagrams and other word manipulations.
The two solved casques suggest that the verses in The Secret hide their meaning through some allusion (“Pass two friends of octave in December”) but mainly by reference to physical objects outside of our current frame of reference. Once you’re in the correct area of the correct park, it will be possible to relate the verse’s lines to your surroundings. Not being there, everything will seem vague and cryptic.
This isn’t too different from the type of riddle that uses veiled language to refer to details within a specific discipline or subject area. Take the famous “One of Six to Eight” riddle from Masquerade. If I tell you that the answer is an English monarch, it gets a lot easier. If I tell you it’s one of the wives of Henry the Eighth, it’s pretty much over. Without that information you might spend a lot of time thinking about math, chemistry, music, or some other area.
The complicating factor with The Secret is that even though we’re pretty well agreed on which cities most of the casques were buried in, there don’t seem to be adequate clues to get from each city to the correct area within a park, so unless someone familiar with the images and verses stumbles upon a treasure ground, we don’t have the proper context to decipher these riddles.

Of course the verses are riddles; each describes a dig site with language that intentionally obscures the solution. The question is, what is the nature of these riddles? What devices do they use? There are riddles based on puns and wordplay (
conundra
), riddles based on allusion and metaphor (
enigmas
), riddles based on math, riddles based on lateral thinking. riddles based on logic, cryptic crosswords based on anagrams and other word manipulations.
The two solved casques suggest that the verses in The
Secret
hide their meaning through some allusion (“Pass two friends of octave in December”) but mainly by reference to physical objects outside of our current frame of reference. Once you’re in the correct area of the correct park, it will be possible to relate the verse’s lines to your surroundings. Not being there, everything will seem vague and cryptic.
This isn’t too different from the type of riddle that uses veiled language to refer to details within a specific discipline or subject area. Take the famous “One of Six to Eight” riddle from Masquerade. If I tell you that the answer is an English monarch, it gets a lot easier. If I tell you it’s one of the wives of Henry the Eighth, it’s pretty much over. Without that information you might spend a lot of time thinking about math, chemistry, music, or some other area.
The complicating factor with The
Secret
is that even though we’re pretty well agreed on which cities most of the casques were buried in, there don’t seem to be adequate clues to get from each city to the correct area within a park, so unless someone familiar with the images and verses stumbles upon a treasure ground, we don’t have the proper context to decipher these riddles.

Good point on Roanoke. It seems to be the outlier in the whole city parks theme.

treetops

CASQUE LOCATIONS
Each casque is buried in a mid-size or large public park in a major city, with the precise location identified relative to trees, bodies of water, or manmade structures.

treetops

VERSES
Lone capital letters stand for proper names. No confirmed cases of proper names representing their initial letters.

treetops

METHODS NOT USED
Complex, cryptic crossword style wordplay and substitution is not used.

I like the idea of this…to pick your brain…do you think that, when he could, BP used parks that were bordering (“touching”) a body of water? (e.g. Grant Park, Lake Park, Cleveland Cultural Gardens (essentially-the Nature Preserve), etc? This may have been gone over (and over), but my point is, if his first choice for a site was a park or preserve on the water in most of these locations, I think it could rule out several (more improbable) spots. For example, following this line of reasoning, WPG (the Battery) in Charleston could be argued as the most probable. Second could be Fort Moultrie (depending on your stance on which verse is for Charleston), followed then by Washington Park, etc…Just trying to organize…
What do you think about “Citadel” in Verse 5? Do you think this is a proper noun? This could be a “pointer” to a location…
I like the more simple, straightforward lines of thinking for solving these. I think they are vague to apply to many places, but I don’t think they contain layers and layers of codes either. “SELOY” in Verse 9, though, does seem to be on its own. Great thinking and organization! This is what we need!

tjgrey

I like the idea of this…to pick your brain…do you think that, when he could, BP used parks that were bordering (“touching”) a body of water? (e.g. Grant Park, Lake Park, Cleveland Cultural Gardens (essentially-the Nature Preserve), etc? This may have been gone over (and over), but my point is, if his first choice for a site was a park or preserve on the water in most of these locations, I think it could rule out several (more improbable) spots. For example, following this line of reasoning, WPG (the Battery) in Charleston could be argued as the most probable. Second could be Fort Moultrie (depending on your stance on which verse is for Charleston), followed then by Washington Park, etc…Just trying to organize…

tjgrey

What do you think about “Citadel” in Verse 5? Do you think this is a proper noun? This could be a “pointer” to a location…

tjgrey

I like the more simple, straightforward lines of thinking for solving these. I think they are vague to apply to many places, but I don’t think they contain layers and layers of codes either. “SELOY” in Verse 9, though, does seem to be on its own. Great thinking and organization! This is what we need!

I don’t see a reason to insist on the presence of water, though in keeping with the immigration theme, many of these sites will be in coastal cities. As has been pointed out, the casque that seems to be on Roanoke Island blows my city parks assumption.
There are a few unexpected capitalizations, or non-capitalizations, in the verses: Fair, oz, Hard word, etc. Are these intentional gestures or careless editing? I think the only example in a solved verse is “Congress”, which does in fact refer to a street name. “Citadel”, however, is at the start of a line and so its being capitalized is not unusual.
As I noted, there is some simple, single-step wordplay, metaphor, and allusion. When I said no
regular
system of acrostic, I was thinking of SELOY, which is the only example I know of.

Just another tool in the toolshed even if not the sharpest!
It may help someone narrowing their search.
One of these guide lines in Image 12 goes right in the middle of the largest oval water drop, Thinking maybe the location is Governor’s Island.

Choice

Just another tool in the toolshed even if not the sharpest!

Choice

It may help someone narrowing their search.

Grow up and stop with the attempts at jabs and insults. Stop posting, if you don’t want interaction with the possibility of somebody disputing an idea. Otherwise, you come off as being no better than JC.
Maybe….but, it won’t, if the original premise is invalid.
Regarding the possibility of Governor’s Island…it may depend on the answer to your previous question, regarding whether or not the Coast Guard, as a military org, was as protective of their bases in the late ’70’s / early ’80’s as other branches of the armed forces, considering the fact that they were part of the Department of Transportation. (I don’t know the answer to that, for sure…I suspect that they were cautious, but, can’t definitively say that they would have prevented Preiss from digging in residential or common areas of the island.).
It would also depend on what else in the image/verse led you there, besides this current idea and method you’re following.

Choice

Reading the 1st couple of pages of the book (the instructions on how to view the puzzle) I noticed the following:
The picture below, a sample puzzle and solve, the jewel, nose and dig spot line up. This template works on Image 4 and 5 solve.

Connect tip of a nose to center of the gem, extend the line if need to. Dig spot may lie along this line.
If you are close to pinpointing a dig spot, try using this method and see where it connects/intersects. It may narrow your X zone.
Admittingly it may give you too many zones depending on the number of noses in the image!
I do guaranteed results or your money back!

Choice, Image 4 seems to depict this pov for the wall in the Greek Cultural Gardens, because of the placement of the street side columns, in the image. If that’s correct, then the casque was buried on the other side of the wall, on the left of the wall from this pov, not on the right as circled in what you’ve posted.
What you’re suggesting only works for image 4, if the pov in the image is the back of the wall, even though the street side columns are included….

That would be correct if you took the image as a realistic photograph of the location. I think it’s just an abstract representation showing the back of the wall and columns from the front and the fountain bowl from Italian garden and not below the wall.

Yes, it might be an artistic depiction of the back of the wall. (I think I left room for that possibility in the last sentence of my last post, even if I don’t agree. To me, It appears to be a spot-on rendition of the front of the wall.)
But, I think there’s a misconception, an incorrect supposition and a false connection within your original premise, followed by varied application of that premise within the images. All of that stops me from accepting the possibility of the premise being a method to use, at this point in time. Discovery of any additional casque in a location that can be shown to follow this latest idea of yours, would go a long way towards affirming it.

One thing thats been on my mind most about how to go about narrowing down the clues that should lead us successfully to a location is how we take into consideration any of our match-to-image finds. I’m referring to things like the fence post and arch in Chicago for P5 or Cleveland’s pair of columns and monolithic wall for P4. We’re left to guess which pictoral references are suppose to be isolated for each image. The most important thing I wonder about, should it matter, is if that isolation is indicative of standing in a critical spot. Disclaimer: this might only apply to only some of the locations.
My guesses:
P1: the disc shaped table top
P2: the disc shaped flower center
P3: the mace weapon on the arm shaped like a water tower
P4: the columns and wall
P5: the fence post w/ arch
P6: the outline below the iceberg
P7: the hemline of the sleeve
P8: the tilted stone
P9: the shoulder line, sloping on both sides as a particular shelter’s rooftop
P10: the wrinkles on the cloak interior shaped like the wrinkles if a statue’s highboot
P11: kinda stumped…
P12: another roofline shaped like the darkened space inside the woman’s elbow
I think its critically important to find a good reason for taking each perspective aside form seeking such a perspective to match any whim. To a degree, as far as catching a lucky picture online, I have done my best to decide where it makes sense to stand based on thematic reasons or constraints fully dependent on dictionary defintions of key words in verse, and Ive done my best to judge between which visuals are associated with the general area like Maltedfalcon’s “iconic image” and those that are specific to wherever Byron stood after burying each casque.

erexere

. The most important thing I wonder about, should it matter, is if that isolation is indicative of standing in a critical spot. Disclaimer: this might only apply to only some of the locations.

I think there are two kinds of images like that hidden in the images.
the first are images from around the treasure ground, but the critical ones seem to be things you can see from the exact location of the buried casque.

Researched a bunch of old Field Guides the other day on topics such as birds, trees, wildflowers, and seashells.  The first thing I noticed was they were published by Chanticleer Press.  That’s because the first time I saw the connection and visited the Corbett Oregon site, I learned it was originally the location of the Chanticleer Inn and I thought the “Rooster” reference was somekind of inside clue/joke since Preiss’ publisher Bantam uses a rooster logo.
Something I discovered that was uncanny was that later editions of the Audobon Field Guide on Birds didn’t use the word “drum” when speaking about the calls of woodpeckers.  This may sound obscure, but those field guides where the real deal when it came to learning details about nature in a pre-Internet age…heck, back then dial-up and BBS was the obscure thing as I hacked my way around DECs…  Anyways, my thoughts on Verse 6 led me to a conclusion that Woodrow Wilson (President during May of 1913) could be a clue about something related to “Woody”, and in this case, “stand and listen to the birds” could be “woodpeckers”, connecting from the iconic cartoon character.  I’ve concluded that there might be a water cistern involved in locating the casque, which is basically a metal drum, and that might be the object of a percussive sound as you “hear the clear, cool sound of water” or rain drops falling on an empty metal container.  I thought, that’s quite a stretch, but it wouldn’t be a stretch if there existed an easy pre-Internet age reference that basically describes the woodpecker’s mating call as a “drumming”.  A bird enthusiast might automatically know this, but I’m not so inclined.  I did discover that the 1981 reference used the word “drum” in the descriptions of woodpecker calls.  I don’t know why they no longer used the word “drum” in the future editions.
Image 12, I think has a lot to do with Abalone shell, the purple-blue-green hues of silvery mother of pearl.  I found there was a whole Field Guide from 1981 dedicated to Seashells and in which contained details about abalone.  The abalone in San Juan Island area were found to be one of the largest populations in the world before the 80’s.  I also recently learned the purest limestone and most massive quantity of lime west of the Mississippi came from San Juan Island from a 1972 book on the history of Roche Harbor.  The mention of limestone and shell in verse 9 works well with these facts I’ve found easily referenced in non-Internet sources.
I know many folks have dug deep and looked at archives and older books.  I think that and a good sense of reasoning from what you’re actually seeing in the images and actually reading as far as word meanings in the verses will solve these puzzles.

It seems to me that everything makes sense when seeing things from a Fair Folk perspective.  Based on tbe LotJ, I can see how those particular fairies sought a spot which was closest to something that can hold water: the poet urns.  Its the Fair Folk who use the word white to describe something in color (with two maps) or a stone, they may be referring only to something specific to the “White Man” which is also a Native perspective.

The final step in for each is concluding where to dig.
From what I’ve seen, most folks seem to pick and choose dig spots with more latitude than I think sensible.  Years ago, a person, kibitz I think, suggested digging a hole a giant step or an arbitrary distance from a smoke stack.  maltedfalcon has dug repeatedly around the base of the balustrade, many folks have dug in other areas around trees, at the base of a lighthouse, and at other interesting places, but that’s just it, is it about finding an interesting place or is it about understanding the clues in how they make for a definite spot?
Cleveland gives such specific directions that I’m sure it would’ve been found immediately in the first year of the hunt if someone had just made the connection to the Cultural Gardens in Cleveland right away.  After 22 years, when Egbert and his pal got there, there seemed to be some intervention or alteration to the absolute location.  They dug up the whole rectangle of ground to find that casque, which I might add was broken from the forces of nature and passing time in an area with heavy drainage.
I’m very focused these days and I do what I can to check my own errors.  I’m not so much about telling anyone they are wrong, but my alternative suggestions are in effect the same thing.  I hope people aren’t being too put off.  I know from PM’s that some folks do appreciate the perspectives, but it’s not making a dent in changing anyone’s minds about where the casques are “most likely” to be found (if ever).
What I’m getting to now is the idea that there’s a final conclusion that must make some sense.  I didn’t see Chicago as too difficult given the 10×13 grid of trees and the fence and fixture as a pretty good way of suggesting a precise location.  It’s unknown, however, that the fence and fixture were precision locators as in exactly on a line of intersection, or just relatively close to the casque, as in somewhere between two objects, thus making it a guess to the final spot.  I recall maltedfalcon saying there was a missing tree in the grid and that spot was where the casque was found.  I’ve never seen any confirmation of that, so If there is, I’d like to see it.  I have a feeling there’s still a bit of information that was overlooked in regards to the found casques, which in turn affects those theories developed on an empirical basis, i.e. what worked in the past, must work in the future, unless proper justification otherwise.
I’ve been more or less content with some of my conclusions lately.  In Houston, I think it’s about locating a spot through a sight-line-focus; that’s an aligning of an a point through the center of another in order to present an exact location on the ground.  In Milwaukee, I’m thinking it’s simply at the base of a tree’s southern foot, but it involves lining up a building spire with an equestrian statue.  In Boston, I think it’s about being directly in front of the gates of a hotel but inside a waist high fenced in area centered on a nearby lamp post with a metal box behind it.  In San Francisco, I believe it’s immediately in front of a bench over looking the Golden Gate Bridge; finding the bench is the trick.  In New Orleans, I believe it’s lining up a statue with a church spire for a line and intersecting the line with a point of reference taken from the peak of a tomb labeled No.21.  In Vancouver BC, I believe it’s finding the center of one of three giant checkerboards and walking a specific number of steps west (compass not needed) based on walking straight along the diagonal through the east corner of the checkerboard (totally love the simplicity there).  In Corbett, I’m looking at walking 12 paces, but the precise measure of steps ends up not being a factor since whether you are 5 feet or 6.5 feet tall you’re stride won’t affect the outcome when you realize a perfectly shaped oval of space makes the most sense that you’ll dig in it’s very center which coincides with a direct line between the largest rock in the area and the largest nearby tree; the view of the river in the background is a perfect match for the outline presented at the base of image 6 (reversed 180 exactly like the curved road is portrayed in the shape of the centaur’s tail in image 4 for Cleveland).  If you can believe pigs share some traits with mankind, and you don’t object to strongly to being led on a red herring in St. Augustine, then San Juan Island uses a picket fence as the intersecting point between a flagpole and a historic plaque on a rock.  In Charleston, there’s twin (fraternal twin names: Edwin/Edwina) lighthouses in Cape Romaine where a white house use to sit; i’m not sure how this one works yet, but there’s bound to be a good way to use the clock in the image.  In North Carolina, a spot on the Outer Banks near Roanoke gives an opportunity to dig below a T shaped pole when facing north.  These are all conclusions of how a precise location might be presented.  I’m excited to test everyone of my ideas at some point in my life, but if anyone reading this would like to give it a go, please feel free…just don’t let the local authorities catch you mucking up the place.

I have been working on finding certain features that match across the Images for a little bit, and I feel reasonably confident to say that I believe that the blue highlights have significance. My theory is that the heavy blue highlights are map overlays. The lighter blue highlights are object matches. I believe that JJP was instructed to include map features into the illustrations and for some reason, maybe BP thought it was not prominent enough, the highlights were then enhanced when the book went to print.
Couple of cases where this seems to be a really good match:
Image 8 – Houston
The Djinn and water spout are Hermann Park and Brays Bayou. The left side of the water spout also looks like Buffalo Bayou. This sets some boundaries in Houston:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kc6xjn8bk0i90 … n.jpg?dl=0
If we look at the columns and Djinn with water spout. The rhino on top of the column is Hermann Park:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tf3mb199gol2v … o.png?dl=0
The column with the globe on top is arguably the Reflecting Pool and Sam Houston monument in Hermann Park. These three items give us a rock solid location of where we should be searching.
Image 11 – Boston
I believe the five globes are five features in Boston Common.
I also believe that the box that she is opening is the area of Fenway and the Back Bay Fens, with the lid being Beacon Street, with the hinge at Kenmore Square.
Image 1 – Golden Gate Park
We have obviously the outline of the park. Also within the Image I believe that many other overlays exist. For example, her face and the pearl could be the Great Meadow and the fountain located just near it.
To me, the rose looks to be a good overlay of Twin Peaks. There are potentially a ton of other matches that I have not identified yet.
Image 6 – St. Augustine
We have the most obvious of outlines in the shape of Florida. Also, the top of the mountain looks almost exactly like Pine Island which is just north of St. Augustine:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1r61qnrg382co … m.png?dl=0
The horse on top of the mountain appears to have features which match the barrier islands or strips of land on the coast near St. Augustine.
The trunk of palm tree that casts no reflection may be the Bridge of Lions and the top is the neighborhood that you would cross into heading east.
The palm could also just represent the giant cross at the Mission.
Image 12 – NYC
The bottom of her dress looks to be Brooklyn.
Her arms appear to form some of the outlines of Prospect Park.
The bird’s head is a very good match for these trails near Lookout Hill in the park:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cn3wifxqy00dt … m.png?dl=0
Out of the remaining Images, Images 7 (New Orleans) and 9 (Montreal) do not appear to have blue highlights. Images 4 (Cleveland) and 5 (Chicago) I have not studied enough, however there are definitely map overlays in Chicago.
Image 2 for Charleston, I am still working on that one. Image 10 for Milwaukee, I have not spent much time at all, but it seems like any easy match up, especially with the area near Lake Park.
Image 3 for Roanoke. Some really observant user on the Wiki identified that the knight’s right arm matches the coastline near Roanoke Island, running from Hatteras to the Potomac. I could also see the left arm as being an extension of that and running all the way up to north of Baltimore. One of the issues with Image 3 (like Image 1 and 11) is that so much is highlighted, it becomes difficult to pick out features that map.
As far as object matches goes, this is where is get difficult. For Golden Gate Park, we can see an outline of a cable car in the table leg. It was just recently that someone posted that there was an actual decommissioned cable car in the park. While still debated, the swirl of the rose stem appears to match a few objects in the park. If we look at Image 10 (Milwaukee), there is a fainter outline around the cape, and what appears to be features of trees, etc. Again, I have not studied Image 4 (Cleveland) but the highlights around the Centaur seem to be lighter, and may point to some object(s) near the location.
Note: I have not determined if the lack of blue highlights rules out whether there are map overlays hidden in the Images. This primarily pertains to Images 7 & 9.
So, my theory is this:
1. Each Image contains longitude and latitude clues. Where they do not, there is a rebus or other identifiers.
2. The Images contain map overlays. This points you to the specific area of the city where you should be looking. Where there are no overlays (blue highlights), there is enough information to get you to the correct city.
3. The Images contain object overlays. This narrows down the area once you have determined the specific park or area to be searching. Most likely this is a visual clue that must be observed on the ground.
4. The verses, once matched, walk you through the steps of the solution, reinforced with visual clues from the Images.
5. The Litany of the Jewels helps match us with Immigration clues to the various cities and historical information.
6. The Vanishing and The Passage to the New World gives additional clues that can help with historical information.
7. A Field Guide to the Fair People of the New World contains mostly extra stuff, but there appears to be some extra clues. At this time (early in my research) is seems to help mostly with identifying potential cities, possibly redundant to finding the coordinates located within the Images.

gManTexas

I have been working on finding certain features that match across the Images for a little bit, and I feel reasonably confident to say that I believe that the blue highlights have significance. My theory is that the heavy blue highlights are map overlays. The lighter blue highlights are object matches. I believe that JJP was instructed to include map features into the illustrations and for some reason, maybe BP thought it was not prominent enough, the highlights were then enhanced when the book went to print.
Couple of cases where this seems to be a really good match:
Image 8 – Houston
The Djinn and water spout are Hermann Park and Brays Bayou. The left side of the water spout also looks like Buffalo Bayou. This sets some boundaries in Houston:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/kc6xjn8bk0i90 … n.jpg?dl=0
If we look at the columns and Djinn with water spout. The rhino on top of the column is Hermann Park:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/tf3mb199gol2v … o.png?dl=0
The column with the globe on top is arguably the Reflecting Pool and Sam Houston monument in Hermann Park. These three items give us a rock solid location of where we should be searching.
Image 11 – Boston
I believe the five globes are five features in Boston Common.
I also believe that the box that she is opening is the area of Fenway and the Back Bay Fens, with the lid being Beacon Street, with the hinge at Kenmore Square.
Image 1 – Golden Gate Park
We have obviously the outline of the park. Also within the Image I believe that many other overlays exist. For example, her face and the pearl could be the Great Meadow and the fountain located just near it.
To me, the rose looks to be a good overlay of Twin Peaks. There are potentially a ton of other matches that I have not identified yet.
Image 6 – St. Augustine
We have the most obvious of outlines in the shape of Florida. Also, the top of the mountain looks almost exactly like Pine Island which is just north of St. Augustine:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/1r61qnrg382co … m.png?dl=0
The horse on top of the mountain appears to have features which match the barrier islands or strips of land on the coast near St. Augustine.
The trunk of palm tree that casts no reflection may be the Bridge of Lions and the top is the neighborhood that you would cross into heading east.
The palm could also just represent the giant cross at the Mission.
Image 12 – NYC
The bottom of her dress looks to be Brooklyn.
Her arms appear to form some of the outlines of Prospect Park.
The bird’s head is a very good match for these trails near Lookout Hill in the park:
https://www.dropbox.com/s/cn3wifxqy00dt … m.png?dl=0
Out of the remaining Images, Images 7 (New Orleans) and 9 (Montreal) do not appear to have blue highlights. Images 4 (Cleveland) and 5 (Chicago) I have not studied enough, however there are definitely map overlays in Chicago.
Image 2 for Charleston, I am still working on that one. Image 10 for Milwaukee, I have not spent much time at all, but it seems like any easy match up, especially with the area near Lake Park.
Image 3 for Roanoke. Some really observant user on the Wiki identified that the knight’s right arm matches the coastline near Roanoke Island, running from Hatteras to the Potomac. I could also see the left arm as being an extension of that and running all the way up to north of Baltimore. One of the issues with Image 3 (like Image 1 and 11) is that so much is highlighted, it becomes difficult to pick out features that map.
As far as object matches goes, this is where is get difficult. For Golden Gate Park, we can see an outline of a cable car in the table leg. It was just recently that someone posted that there was an actual decommissioned cable car in the park. While still debated, the swirl of the rose stem appears to match a few objects in the park. If we look at Image 10 (Milwaukee), there is a fainter outline around the cape, and what appears to be features of trees, etc. Again, I have not studied Image 4 (Cleveland) but the highlights around the Centaur seem to be lighter, and may point to some object(s) near the location.
Note: I have not determined if the lack of blue highlights rules out whether there are map overlays hidden in the Images. This primarily pertains to Images 7 & 9.
So, my theory is this:
1. Each Image contains longitude and latitude clues. Where they do not, there is a rebus or other identifiers.
2. The Images contain map overlays. This points you to the specific area of the city where you should be looking. Where there are no overlays (blue highlights), there is enough information to get you to the correct city.
3. The Images contain object overlays. This narrows down the area once you have determined the specific park or area to be searching. Most likely this is a visual clue that must be observed on the ground.
4. The verses, once matched, walk you through the steps of the solution, reinforced with visual clues from the Images.
5. The Litany of the Jewels helps match us with Immigration clues to the various cities and historical information.
6. The Vanishing and The Passage to the New World gives additional clues that can help with historical information.
7. A Field Guide to the Fair People of the New World contains mostly extra stuff, but there appears to be some extra clues. At this time (early in my research) is seems to help mostly with identifying potential cities, possibly redundant to finding the coordinates located within the Images.

How well do these theories stand up against the two known images from Cleveland and Chicago?

I like the general aim of looking for compatible fits to those ideas but not the sort that are cherry picked.

drunknerds

I think JM posed the notion in the first Shhhh…. the secret podcast (which is turning out amazing, btw) that it seemed like Preiss did a lot of things twice. Like having two images that are arched, and using a letter to represent a last name in exactly two verses.

drunknerds

1. I felt that the puzzles had very unclear starting points. With a duality theme, people can try applying other solved puzzles to try to get a grip on a new one.
2. I got exhausted, and wanted to reuse puzzle solves for ease. However, clients would never stand for that, so I make it a “theme.” Now slacking off just looks like an intricate part of puzzle planning.
3. It was just coincidence. When you make puzzles in huge batches such as the ones The Secret required, it’s natural for an author to reuse elements. Some elements Preiss reused more than twice, some have been used 11 times. It’s like looking at pi and saying “whoa, there are infinite 2’s. That must mean something!”

I liked this idea very much at first, but I think it’s not going to be a significant contributing factor to what really moves us forward in solving the next puzzle(s).
This is great thinking, only Preiss seems to be using his talent for words and lore in such an expert way that people can only hope to get lucky to wrap their heads around a puzzle, let alone find the obscure references which may or may not be needed to pull off a brute force dig of an area that fits at least some of the clues. Like you say in #2, I think there’s a backbone to this puzzle that ultimately makes easy sense out of a batch effort approach.
Starting with the LotJ, we know for certain which painting goes with which culture because the line couplets identify each jewel, which has been included in each painting. Furthermore, I maintain that a well chosen word in each couplet precisely identifies with some specific motif applicable to his unique solve for each setting. I can’t make a strong case for this yet with just Chicago and Cleveland. I’ve tried too hard in the past to uncover the intricacy of this approach and failed, because it’s not meant to be so complicated.
Chicago’s “cold morning green” is in my best guess a clue about money, because “green” is his loose association word to identify with money, which in slang or idiom terms referred to as “cold hard cash”, “greenbacks”, or just “green”. To help this idea along further, we have the qualifier of a cold morning. If I were to describe a morning that was cold as Nuuk, Greenland in the month of May, then I’d be talking about George Washington or Thomas Jefferson, since the average morning temperature in May is just 1 or 2 degrees. In Chicago, that number is about 50 or 51 degrees, thus we’re talking about this guy,
Cleveland’s “spring-water clear” has eluded me in terms of clarity. One idea I have is that it quickly associates with the Socrates, Pindar, Apelles line as S-P-A, of the derivation from a mineralized water or word for “fountain” in the Walloon language. I think Preiss wanted to capture the setting of nymphs playing in a bath.
The way idioms and origins work, however, doesn’t seem like an especially good way to lead us towards a solution, although it looks fine from a big picture or retrospective view.

gManTexas

1. Each Image contains longitude and latitude clues. Where they do not, there is a rebus or other identifiers.
2. The Images contain map overlays. This points you to the specific area of the city where you should be looking. Where there are no overlays (blue highlights), there is enough information to get you to the correct city.
3. The Images contain object overlays. This narrows down the area once you have determined the specific park or area to be searching. Most likely this is a visual clue that must be observed on the ground.
4. The verses, once matched, walk you through the steps of the solution, reinforced with visual clues from the Images.
5. The Litany of the Jewels helps match us with Immigration clues to the various cities and historical information.
6. The Vanishing and The Passage to the New World gives additional clues that can help with historical information.
7. A Field Guide to the Fair People of the New World contains mostly extra stuff, but there appears to be some extra clues. At this time (early in my research) is seems to help mostly with identifying potential cities, possibly redundant to finding the coordinates located within the Images.

Its hard to disagree with most of what you have hear, I just think it’s easy to misinterpret the value of each idea complementing each puzzle. There’s so much uniqueness and mental/visual gymnastics at work that we’re often overlooking the real gold or Preisstial Punch, or singularity.

erexere

I like the general aim of looking for compatible fits to those ideas but not the sort that are cherry picked.

Not sure where this is directed. Can you elaborate?

Sorry for not elaborating. Being critical isn’t my strong suit.
I don’t like the idea of grasping for matches without well supported reason for looking at a particular monument, structure, or road way shape.
I basically don’t see good reasons for the various profiles being discussed. Could be I’m just being blind…

erexere

There’s so much uniqueness and mental/visual gymnastics at work that we’re often overlooking the real gold or Preisstial Punch, or singularity.

But alas, that is The Secret.

erexere

Sorry for not elaborating. Being critical isn’t my strong suit.
I don’t like the idea of grasping for matches without well supported reason for looking at a particular monument, structure, or road way shape.
I basically don’t see good reasons for the various profiles being discussed. Could be I’m just being blind…

Sorry erexere, I’m still not following you, but I can take a shot at answering.
This is not grasping at straws or matches at all. When I first started looking at the Images, I asked myself, why are some of these outlined in blue? Then, a short time later, I said, duh, because they ARE outlines. Two major easy supporting examples, Florida and Golden Gate Park. I think we can all agree on this. The way I see it, BP gave us some easy puzzles and some difficult ones. Chicago and Cleveland were very descriptive and easy. The rest, not so much. However, in doing so, he let us form connections and set the rules for this hunt. While I do not believe that every puzzle is the same or will be solved the same way, there are some basic rules here. Additionally, I think some people share the concept that BP and the people he hired, did not have an endless amount of time or resources to make each puzzle so vastly different that by virtue of solving one, you would still come up empty handed for the rest. We also have to consider that there is a common narrative that ties all of these together.
Disclaimer: I have not had enough time to go through each and every Image with maps and other resources to decipher all of the overlays, so I apologize if that appears to be grasping or cherry picking. I only found the Houston matches about a week or so ago. There is a lot of information to digest in this hunt, especially across 12 Images, 12 Verses, 12 locations, and 36 years. Not to mention all of the historical research required to understand some of these. However, if we focus on one or two of the Images and look at the maps of the area in question, certainly we can see how things overlay. Boston is a great example.
The reason I bring this up is that there are a bunch of people working on these puzzles, individually and collectively. This may spur someone to have a Ah-Ha moment. Now, even if we solve all of these and recover most of the casques, we will still never know. That’s the tough part. We cannot talk to BP and ask the questions. Maybe, just maybe there’s a manuscript out there and when the last puzzle is solved, it will be released. “How I did it” by Byron Preiss. I doubt it. So we push on and try to dissect this thing, hoping that we are on the right path.
I could be wrong. I’m okay with that. I’m not trying to get on a soapbox or anything. I just think this could be helpful. Then again it may not help. If the maps only get us to where we already suspect the casques are, then there is no additional value. If we see something and it makes someone say, “Wait, that looks really good. I know that area. I’ve suspected it for a while.”, then maybe it’s worthwhile.
I’d encourage everyone to look at the highlights and see what jumps out. Spin a map around, line things up.
By the way, I don’t remember a case where I had to mirror an image or distort anything to get a match. Only rotation. Also, it may not be a 100% perfect match, and you can see on the Images where sometimes the blue will end abruptly. Also, I believe some portions of the highlighted areas map to certain things, but adjacent highlighted areas can map to something completely different in the same general area, for example, part of the Image may be a shoreline, yet, another part that is connected is a park not on the shoreline. I believe Chicago is done that way.
As for Chicago and Cleveland, it’s tough to study those because honestly, there will be no reward of treasure. Also, the way in which they were “solved” leaves some things unanswered. I suppose it will take going through the whole puzzle(s) and walking them backward to see what comes of it.

Here’s another go at colour-matching the new footage (left) with the old scans (right).

I wouldnt know what exactly drives the right inspiration for each puzzle. I would like to see a foundation built on the big ideas first and then collect the small pieces of the puzzle to fill out the details of the treasure ground. There’s some subtlety to each painting that encourages us to look more into a particular shape, so I agree with some of that approach. I just want more adoration to be based on a vital or central point.
The wall in Cleveland. The fence in Chicago. The letters in Boston. The wood in Houston. ??

erexere

I wouldnt know what exactly drives the right inspiration for each puzzle. I would like to see a foundation built on the big ideas first and then collect the small pieces of the puzzle to fill out the details of the treasure ground. There’s some subtlety to each painting that encourages us to look more into a particular shape, so I agree with some of that approach. I just want more adoration to be based on a vital or central point.
The wall in Cleveland. The fence in Chicago. The letters in Boston. The wood in Houston. ??

Yes, I agree and have maintained that the answers will occur on the ground. The right person, with the right eye, will see that connected element.

leighanny

I think I may have found a link between the 12 puzzles and 12 books of the Old Testament. I have brief descriptions on how I think BP matched up the puzzles and books. I’ve posted this on Facebook and a couple of other places as well, so I apologize if you’re seeing this for the second time. These notes are in the “Exiled by the Law of the Prophet” blog. I can’t seem to get the link so you may have to copy it.
https://thesecretofthesecret.blog

I commend you for your theory. it is well thought out and all. With that being said and after reading your site, I don’t see much of a match. Even at some points where you make a correlation it does not really lead anywhere. It is a very interesting concept, the bible in relation to The Secret, I just think it is a stretch.

erexere

For Fair Folk’s sake
Goodness first
Compare the phrase “for goodness sake”.    Notice the reversal of sake and goodness.  The origin definition of sake is “crime”.  Good is a first thing as far as theology.  Maybe there should be more invested in looking into things which identify as being “firsts”.

I just looked back at the book. The actual phrase is “For Fair Folk’s
peace
/ Goodness first.” Still, it’s a weird phrase.

decibalnyc

… I would buy into the museum theory. Proximity of art museums to treasure grounds maybe an interesting thing to look into.

Have you looked into it? They are all VERY close to a proposed theory – typically on the same road. The only ones that don’t fit this are St. Augustine and Manteo, both of which seem to be museums within themselves.

I’ve been knee deep in old photos for Image 10, and work is still pretty busy…I think you’re on to something about the museums tho, just from a logical standpoint it makes a lot of sense. I would guess college campuses also, it seems this book was meant for the 18-25 age demographic.

What about the Zodiac symbols hidden in each image?
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/h … 254#p73254
They also give you earth air fire water
and cardinal fixed mutable
I suppose it confirms the months but I cannot see any connection with the locations.

I don’t buy the zodiac theory — too big a stretch.

Just some random thoughts…
Let’s assume the order in which the images and verses appear in the book is arbitrary. If so, there is no logic to the numerical ordering of their pairing. That is, no numeric rule that dictates what painting number goes with what verse number. The pairings rely entirely on their content. Can we agree on that?
Regarding the month theme, in every image we have a significant number of some sort (communicated via clocks, a carving, warts, flowers, columns, a roman numeral, red balls, and gold bands) corresponding to the month, the birth flower for that month, and the birthstone for that month.
Why? What is the connection between this theme and the immigration theme? How does this fact tie into the solution? And why the redundancy? The jewels I can understand, but once we recognize that they are all 12 birthstones, why do we need to know the birthflower and month also?
I recognize that the elements of the images take on bit parts in individual solutions, but I’m talking about the overall decision to include all three of these elements in every picture when they would seem to provide redundant information. It would have all made sense if they gave some clue to how to pair a P and V, but they don’t.
Some of the verses themselves give instructions on pairings. Here are some direct references to paintings in the verses (the ones I know of):
V4: “Seek the columns / For the search”
V10: “Take twice as many east steps as the hour”
V11: “To the land near the window”
I wonder if we have missed any other clues in the verses that would point toward specific pairings.
Also, here is a listing of the flowers and what I think we have been able to glean from them. Note that JJP used the U.S. style birth flowers, not the British list:
Rose (June, pearl). Is there a clue hidden in the image?
Daisy (April, diamond). Any significance / pattern in the petals?
White carnation (January, garnet).
Daffodil (March, aquamarine). Does this look like a daffodil to anyone? C’mon, really??
Lily of the Valley (May, emerald).
Aster (September, sapphire). It has been suggested that the greenery hides a Spanish ship. Also, the number of flowers (9) is the number clue for this image.
Narcissus (December, turquoise). There are two of them.
Larkspur (July, ruby). There are two of them – in case we missed one?
Calendula/Marigold (October, opal). Hides a number (unintelligible).
Primrose (February, amethyst).
Gladiolus (August, peridot).
Chrysanthemum (November, topaz). Might hide letters.

forest_blight

Lily of the Valley (May, emerald).

Note how this ties in with the Celtic folk via the litany…
Brilliant as eyes of Celtic folk,
Cold morning green, their Emerald
…and the story.
“Imagine the Leprechauns of Erin…as from their hiding places they watched the
Mayflower
drop anchor, and saw upon its deck a grim-faced throng of Celt-murdering Puritans.”
I think a lot of this stuff is fluff; bewildering ornamentation, with clues but also distractions.

maltedfalcon

I dont believe that this actually works
Seek the columns would work if only one image had columns, that is not the case.
Take twice as many steps east as the hour, the majority of images have clocks…
To the land near the window – many images have windows.
And Image 7…  the mask covers 6 – 9  specically not the after noon hours.. espicially if the clock is showing midnight as is commonly assumed
but either way it covers either morning or evening. but not afternoon.
So while some of these images suggest, none of them actually help you select a verse…

I’m afraid I disagree, malt. In each case, BP gives a pretty strong hint without directing you unambiguously to the correct image. In any case, a reference to an image in a verse need not be for the purpose of establishing a pairing, but could also be a way to give a clue that can only be understood once the pairing has been made.
1. For “seek the columns,” there are really only two good candidate images he could be talking about, so that’s actually a really good hint for finding a P/V pairing. It eliminates 10 images for that verse.
2. For the “east steps,” I realize that many images have clocks. One must first pair the verse with the relevant image to make any use of this clue, but it is definitely a reference to a specific image (i.e., when you have identified the correct image for this verse, figure out the relevant hour, multiply it by two, and start walking).
3. For the “land near the window,” the land in question is clearly the outline of Roanoke, which is literally “near the window” in P3. Of the windows in other verses, none of them have “lands” near them, at least not quite so blatantly. So this is a clue for pairing an image with a verse.

Let us not also forget The Litany of the Jewels…..which I believe tied in directly to the 2 found casques.
Chicago:  found in Grant Park
People O’ Peace et all & Leprachauns etc….
* from Scotland & Ireland
*LOJ  “Brilliant as eyes of Celtic folk, Cold morning green, their Emerald.”
Chicago has a huge Irish population….actually,  Irish-Americans are the largest ethnic group in Chicago. The city is known for it’s Irish population.
P5 shows the Emerald
————————————————————————————
Cleveland:  found in the Greek Cultural Garden
Centaurs etc…
*  from Hellas/Crete
* LOJ  “The Nymphs of Hellas cherish sweet Aquamarine, spring-water clear.”
Hellas/Crete = Greece. Greek Cultural Garden.
P4 shows Centaur & Aquamarine
—————————————————————————–
on to P6:
Hadas etc…
*  from Iberia
* LOJ  “The Hads of Iberia: Sapphire, shy as a wild field flower.”
Hads of Iberia.  Where is Iberia? Spain
P6 shows Spanish Conquistador & Sapphire (as well as what looks like Florida which was discovered by the Spaniard Ponce de Leon at a place called St Augustine)

team·work
: work done by several associates with each doing a part but all subordinating personal prominence to the efficiency of the whole
meth·od·ol·o·gy
1
: a body of methods, rules, and postulates employed by a discipline : a particular procedure or set of procedures
2
: the analysis of the principles or procedures of inquiry in a particular field
This is what this hunt is all about! There is no way this thing will ever be solved if we continue on our current path. Every time I check out the forum I hope that I see a new thought or an addition to an old idea that hasn’t been brought up yet so that maybe it sparks something. Instead, every single time I log on, all I see is negativity and one person shooting down another’s idea. This is not directed at any single member but to the forum as a whole. Any idea, no matter how absurd people think it is, is just one persons thought about how to solve this puzzle. It doesn’t make it wrong just because you disagree with it. If you don’t agree then keep going on your own path and ignore it. There’s no reason to write a novel about how someone’s ideas are wrong. Everyone here is in the same boat and we’re all adults. All the recent posts are just bashing new ideas. Instead of pushing us forward they’re setting us back. I would much rather log in and see that there are no new posts as opposed to reading one that tells someone that they have the wrong idea. We have a thirty plus year treasure hunt that remains unsolved. If we keep going in the direction that we are then I might as well hand my book to my daughter in twenty years and have her search instead because there will still be ten casques to look for. Lets just work together and find these damn things. See something you don’t like? JUST IGNORE IT!! Prove that person wrong by digging up the casque based on your own concept instead of writing them a post about how you’re right and they’re wrong. The only way to prove anyone’s idea wrong is to find the casque. I don’t mean to come off as a dick but this needed to be said.

The LotJ does raise some interesting points but it doesnt seem all that useful.  I think Celtic = Boston is more appropriate.  Spain also explored and claimed the Pacific coast.  Ponce is just not the only Spanish explorer to consider.
Ive enjoyed a liberal range of thematic explorations.  The Pacman was rocking as a theme and still has some traction.  It was creative and consistent with several factors.  The legeater is a good direct clue to image 9.  It answers a question of why Stephens lamp and why just the head eating a leg.  Although nobody is willing to embrace it, they might still opt to work with it or challenge the idea, but no, instead people fall back on the notion that Chicago and Cleveland didnt work that way which is a fail.  We are better off assessing each successive casque as a wholy new puzzle, one more challenging than the last.  We might still misunderstand some key features about Chicago and Cleveland and so its not the best evidence to use.  Its hard to move forward when we choose to limit our view…thats plain ignorance.  Its misplaced trust.

Ok, now that’s the third time you’ve called me ignorant and that’s pretty offensive.
Perhaps we will just agree to disagree……….

Don’t be offended.  Let’s move forwards.  Narrowing views is great when it makes very reasonable excisions, but when those excisions are poorly based, it’s just an ignorance of what might be important details.
I agree that we’re adults.

Yes, of course there are other Spanish explorers.  And some did explore the Pacific northwest….I’m not arguing with you there. Unfortunately our image has a Spanish explorer standing atop something that looks a lot like Florida…and who does that make it? PdL.  If the shape looked a lot like Oregon, then maybe it isn’t PdL and maybe it is somewhere else.
Getting to the Sam Hill Memorial – It sure would be a better candidate if the plaques spoke of Spanish explorers or anything in the pic for that matter….but it doesn’t. One side contains a round sculpture of his bust in profile which is not seen in our pic and a plaque below reading:
———-
Not until this highway was built
Was it possible to go up or down
The Columbia River Gorge.
Earliest period rafts and
Dug outs (Native boats).
Later period steamboats
And railroad.
Erected by loving friends
To the memory of Samuel Hill.
Alonzo Victor Lewis
Sculptor
John C Howard
Designer
——–
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/or0386.photos.354662p/
The other side contains 2 plaques which show what appears to be river boats along the river.
http://www.loc.gov/pictures/item/or0386.photos.354661p/
Lastly, yes this area was explored by the Spanish….but it is on these plaques and in the history of this area, that Lewis & Clark are highlighted. Show me a L&C reference somewhere…..anywhere. So this rock looks a bit like the shape of the P rock but nothing else about it fits. Anywhere.
Our workings on the San Augustine theory fits almost line for line.

Fox, theres a line for line fit for verse 5.  Just stand there in one spot and look around.  tue “line for line” for FOY based verse 9 is convoluted by comparison to ALL observations, Chicago and Cleveland included.  Look again at the stercox sketch.  Look at four21s labled map.  Theres a poor fit, nearly random, I can’t see how the goal of orienteering is intelligently arranged.
I’m not into looking up obscure things any longer.  I just dig a little, look up words and analyze the context.  I don’t have an answer for why there isn’t a Spain based historical plaque.  It would help for sure but this might be the hardest of Preiss’ puzzles.  Especially given its the only one that seems strictly like a red herring setup.

“Your ignorance fits in wherever you like.
The theoretical framework Ive elaborated on just takes us to a specific spot.  You seem to like really huge gaps and generalizations.
Don’t take this as belligerence, it’s more like edgy criticism.  Major cities?  Is that what the consensus agrees on?  If that’s a legitimate constraint then go for it.  St. Augustine is a hugely popular destination for tourists, which is why I have some nice collectible souvenirs from there, but I disagree that it’s a major city.  Corbett is like a farmland, but that doesn’t chage the FACT that historically significant elements exist.
Everytime I carefully evaluate the details of what everyone has posted about FOY I still see it as a random assortment of pickings and choosings with imposings of preference.  The sign at the entrance is a great find.  It begins things.  The planetarium and the weather vane are nice associations, but the method of discovery is still a huge mystery.  Who cares where the green fence was or is.  Try imagining a green fence anywhere you want and you will still have to explain how things work in a way comparable to how precise Preiss himself expected these to be found.  Precision…maybe that’s just my own imposition.  My point is nobody seems to be working towards an absolute answer.  There’s a lot of guesswork being applied and tossing the words “likely” or “probable” around is often misleading.”
———————————————————————————————–
First off….ignorance?  I would hazard a guess that many on this board would disagree with you there. Oh, but there I go again….generalizations.
Secondly….Let me take my huge gap and generalization of big cities and specialize it a bit. PORT CITIES. Yes, a consensus has agreed on that as well. It only fits with a story about fairies and creatures making their way to a new land. St Augustine may not be a big city but it historically is a HUGE Port.
C…… ” The sign at the entrance is a great find.  It begins things.  The planetarium and the weather vane are nice associations, but the method of discovery is still a huge mystery. ”  If the sign begins things, I sure would love to see how the end is thousands of miles away.  ;D
4…..”Everytime I carefully evaluate the details of what everyone has posted about FOY I still see it as a random assortment of pickings and choosings with imposings of preference.”    Randon assortment of pickings and choosings? Your theories have gone from Pac man to Batman to trigonometry to God knows where. Who cares where the green fence is? Really? I think we all should care where the green fence is since that is how these hunts work. I’m sure glad Sir Egg didn’t say to himself who cares where the columns are……they aren’t literal columns, but perhaps columns of light shining down on a specific object at a specific time of day only once a year.
These puzzles aren’t that complicated or hard. The only real thing making them difficult is the passage of time. Trees (literal) fall, landscaping is done, fences (literal) are torn down or painted…fortunately our green picket fence is still there. So why are we trying so hard to ignore it. Sure, coquina (on it’s own) is used in construction all over the place: sure, signs (on their own) can be found everywhere with “salt” and “silver” on them: sure, the outline which looks a lot like Florida (on it’s own) may resemble something a bit different: sure, a conquistador (on his own) could be a handful of explorers…not just Ponce de Leon: sure, green picket fences (on their own) are everywhere, we could all probably walk down our streets and find one etc etc etc………But: when that explorer who looks like PdL is atop a shape that looks like Florida leads us to where PdL supposedly landed looking for the FoY which has a sign at the entrance that says FIRST CHAPTER which also has coquina buildings and signs saying salt and silver and has a green picket fence etc etc etc…then maybe all those things that are meaningless On Their Own now are quite the contrary.

bigmattyh

The way I see it, the “fun” at this point would be in figuring out if any of the solutions were correct, and then moving on to another hunt.

Well I’m sorry you’re done,
but I’m not, nor am I so pessimistic that we wont find more casques.
I submit to you that none of the m were correct because we didnt find the casques yet.

Here’s some previews of the Verbs book:
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … zkxqsa.png
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … hrkp35.png
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … eyvlds.png
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … o9y39v.png
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … yfrh8k.png
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … qeoudo.png
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … fb1eh5.png
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … mirj75.png
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … icli9o.png
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a181/ … ghauod.png

Thanks!

I like the JJP pictures idea. In the photo posted by WhiteRabbit, we see the same divots in the wall that we see in the Roanoke image. In fact, the walls look very similar. This would tell me that most of the divots and cracks in the wall in the Roanoke image are just there for decoration.
Let’s look at some more….

Well I like the way you are thinking.
however didn’t Willhouse have a picture of Dunes taken near the CZ that basically matched the dunes in the back of the picture perfectly?
That would be more likely, as the Chicago and Cleveland picture elements match exactly.

Yeah, I’m trying to ease up on my heavily interpreted themes.  This is aout finding exactly one location and not about there being more than one right answer.  I don’t recall Wilhouses dunes but I assume that was part of his bulldoze attempt.  I’m trying to look for good candidates markers near the center of the image that would indicate a radius of discovery.  A hill is a hill in 360 degrees.  The tilted stone in image 8 could be drawn in an ambiguous orientation, so we shouldn’t be stuck on just one direction for perspective.

Here’s a simplifying idea:  considering how the Chicago and Cleveland solves turned out, there is a central element in each of the images that might be seen as a “close” indicator for what is nearest the treasure ground.
I have good reason to believe that these circled points in the other images do this as well.  I think Preiss stood somewhere west of the Miller Outdoor Theater and snapped a photo.  This does work into my utilization of the Golden Spiral.

I’ve developed a method of pinpointing waymarkers that works for image 1 only as far as I can tell.
There are 11 half moons on top of the painting, in the arch area which would be a half-moon window.
So in the same pattern as the frame of the painting I draw two lines straight down in tangent to the moon circle. The waymarker will fall in the middle. Direction of travel is dictated by the size of the moon. You can start from the smallest moon to largest or in reverse. I’ve posted detailed solution in image 1 thread ad nauseum.
Here’s a sample waymarker:

The coat of arms to the images all seem like great matches. A bit of a stretch though to some of the verses.

Also I’m pretty sure the giant step in SF indicates one giant step not once giant stair.
its an indication of distance not a description of a different level.

These verses are heavily engineered.
A single line or group of lines works to describe, instruct, or allude to some detail
needed in order to piece together the final location of a casque.
Overall structure is non-linear.  From a perceived start point to a final and precise dig
spot, the lines might be tweaked to fit some external idea like a rhyme or a stylization.
We might see a 15 line poem best interpreted in this order:
Start A: Well known building, lines 13-14
B: Road name, lines 7-8
C: An art sculpture, line 4
D: A book quote, lines 1-3
E: A historical marker, lines 5-6
F: Instruction to walk in a direction a number of paces, line 9
G: Notice the exact details that make pinpointing possible, lines 10-12
End H: This is where you dig, line 15
Structure in this sense is no different than a picture.  A shuffled verse shares
many of the same limitations as a picture.  The eye and mind choose what to focus
on in as much a random way as the lines in a verse might be set.  A picture might be
limited in how well it represents a book quote, or an ordered list of instructions.
So there will be some exceptions depending on the context. In any event, this is an
exercise in understanding the picture and verse combined. It’s matter of record that
Preiss thought these would all be solved within months.  That is like saying
there are dead giveaways in these puzzles.  It’s all a matter of sorting out the key
components. Anything “key” will by default have a hinging point whatever it may be.
I like to think hinging points have some structure.  Make note of the possibilities.
Find any ideas that turn possibilities into real locations and then work to see a
course which might not be fully or even partially described and yet see how that
connection accommodates an overwhelmingly inclusive themework.
The tactics within a single line of verse seem to offer challenging possibilities.
A word can have deeper meaning, or be a homonym like ‘rain’ could mean ‘reign’ which
might fulfill a sense of looking for a clue relevant to a country or castle involving
a ruler, or one who reigns. Another could be seeing a sign with the word “FORUM” and
picking up on the way the word TOGETHER in the verse connects: “The Forum” as an
assembly in Ancient Rome.  ‘Assemble’ simply means “put together”.  This looks like
a stretch, because it is meant to be, since a person is surely not going to think
“hey, the word ‘together’ can translate to “The Forum of Rome”…it has little or no
context from first observance in text alone, but if we are led to a spot with signage
saying FORUM, then we might seek something in verse that relates.
I combine or draw from the following ideas:
Mythology, American History, Art, Architecture, Children’s Games, Poetry, Popular Fiction
(films or books), and Tourism.

More research and connections to the image and hunt
Chicago Simeon
It’s said that the tribe of Simeon pursued matters with the sword (or war) . The casque location was in Grant park, named after our 18th president. Ulysses S. Grant (Commanding General) lead the union army to defeat the Confederacy (war) This can be seen as settling matters with a sword.
Color connections to the image and tribe:
The colors green and yellow can be associated with the tribe of Simeon. The color blue mixed with yellow will created green. In the image for Chicago the colors Blue, Gold (yellow) and Green are present.
(for clarification not all gems will match the tribes colors, it is just a representation of the color placed in the image.)
The color green can be associated to the Irish and the immigration to the puzzle.
In modern times, the ancestors of Simeon are wide spread through out Israel and Europe. The highest concentration of Simeonites is Wales.
In the image the gem hangs off the ear, Simeon in Hebrew is Listen. I think the link between the Tribes and puzzles could gives us information about the whereabouts of the casques locations.

Revisiting this thread. How do people think these puzzles work? As far as I can tell, maltedfalcon had one major fix in suggesting the “iconic path” approach, which does a good job finding the one correct visual landmark and then letting the verse guide you quickly through the most direct route possible to the treasure ground.
I feel there’s a major riddle to help guide us in each puzzle, largely to do with the approach one would expect each respective fair folk to work into their plan. For the nymphs of Hellas, I found some evidence to suggest looking for an urn. That doesn’t really help lead us to a place, but it works to confirm if you believe Preiss made a point to bury the casque between those two poet urns in Cleveland’s Greacean Gardens.
I think the fairies depicted in image 3 make a point of proudly bearing that flower in the bubble, carrying it through the air. The iconic feature is the water tower just south of Roanoke leading to a spot near the window of a building where coast guard practice carrying people from a replica ships mast.
In Boston, I think it’s all about the Tax Burden and how that is perceived when standing at the gates of the Somerset. When you consider the fair folk there may have seen Paul Revere as that guiding light against the oppressive Tea taxing Brits. The $$, symbols may be inferred when seeing the two SS letters for Somerset (the name of a Brittish Man-o-war) centered on a vertical barred gate.
It’s important to jump through the hoops Preiss envisioned. So, what do people think those hoops are?

Good job gman!!! We all won’t agree on everything but it’s nice to see it all in one novel that you wrote broke down neat and concise.wow we spend a lot of time on this thing .lol.im sure you will be adding to it -jim

gManTexas

Hey arm chair treasure hunters,
As many of you know, I joined this forum in January 2018 right after the episode of Expedition Unknown in an effort to research and understand The Secret. Little did I know at the time that I would get so wrapped up and have the chance to visit almost half of the sites myself. It has been a really interesting year.
Almost from the beginning, I felt that there was a lack of approach from the methodology standpoint. I understand that many people are interested in one particular puzzle or location, so the focus is narrow, but I feel that any project has a method behind it. The book “The Secret” is no exception. I have written a document regarding the Methodology and would like to share it to stimulate conversation and move this hunt forward. Some of this work has involved taking bits and pieces of research posted on this forum, but most of it is from analysis of the book itself.
This document is a work in progress, although it is complete enough at this time to release the First Edition. I am currently working on some of the puzzles and connections as you will see in the document. It is a rather lengthy document, so it may be best to download and read offline.
I would like to give a special thanks to Goonie68 who has been instrumental in helping develop parts of this Methodology. There are a few others that I have credited in the document as well.
Enjoy, and happy hunting!
~ gManTexas
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1bHk7l … OpEYHqgPkM

Amazing as usual, gMan! I can’t wait to read this! Thanks for sharing!

Hi Gman,
There is a ton of stuff to ponder in your first edition. I’ll be fair and honest, I think some stuff is insightful and some is a stretch.
A large part of my everyday job is to make maps, plans, scaled drawings of items to be recorded for historical purposes or just to be located again in the future. It often requires me to overlay past and present maps to find where specific things are or used to be located. Anything from a property corner to a sewer pipe is fair game.
I have questions about your map overlays. What method are you supposed to use with 1982 technology to achieve these overlays? I can only picture a few ways to do this.
-Cut the images in the book into pieces and hope you can find the correct park or city map that fits the pieces.
-Keep the book intact and trace the images (elementary school style), then hope you find the correct park or city map that fits.
-Cut up a bunch of maps until you find something that fits the image in the book.
-Place the images on a projector and project it onto a map on the wall. (middle school style.)
Resizing and superimposing images in 1982 was most likely a task even for a professional photographer. Near impossible for the common household that had instant polaroid cameras and film cameras with flash cubes that took a week before you got the pictures back from the local drug store.
I’m curious, how would this be done without the endless variety of mapping and image manipulation software that is loaded on every computer today?
**EDIT** If you ever come to visit Boston, look me up and ill take you to look at the Columbus Statue in person. It’s not even remotely close.

gManTexas

Enjoy, and happy hunting!

GManTexas, this is definitely a fun read! You already know that I disagree with a few of your ideas, though– particularly the argument that all of the Image to Verse pairings are firmly “established.”

BINGO

Hi Gman,
There is a ton of stuff to ponder in your first edition. I’ll be fair and honest, I think some stuff is insightful and some is a stretch.
A large part of my everyday job is to make maps, plans, scaled drawings of items to be recorded for historical purposes or just to be located again in the future. It often requires me to overlay past and present maps to find where specific things are or used to be located. Anything from a property corner to a sewer pipe is fair game.
I have questions about your map overlays. What method are you supposed to use with 1982 technology to achieve these overlays? I can only picture a few ways to do this.
-Cut the images in the book into pieces and hope you can find the correct park or city map that fits the pieces.
-Keep the book intact and trace the images (elementary school style), then hope you find the correct park or city map that fits.
-Cut up a bunch of maps until you find something that fits the image in the book.
-Place the images on a projector and project it onto a map on the wall. (middle school style.)
Resizing and superimposing images in 1982 was most likely a task even for a professional photographer. Near impossible for the common household that had instant polaroid cameras and film cameras with flash cubes that took a week before you got the pictures back from the local drug store.
I’m curious, how would this be done without the endless variety of mapping and image manipulation software that is loaded on every computer today?
**EDIT** If you ever come to visit Boston, look me up and ill take you to look at the Columbus Statue in person. It’s not even remotely close.

Bingo, thanks for the comments. The first method is to see the maps visually with your eyes, pattern recognition. This is how I saw a few of the maps in the Images, namely SF and Charleston. If you follow the process and locate the general area, then a street atlas or city map would be great to study and compare to the Images.
For verification, we had a number of options back in 1982. Tracing paper and transparencies were a great option. We were resourceful back then as you know, and making photocopies at the library, or at school was an easy option. We could even take relatively thin cheap paper and cut it into shapes and lay it onto maps to see how things line up. I would have never cut the book up directly, although photocopies would be fair game. This is where resizing would be easy, set the photocopier to 120% and go. I did this plenty of times. In many ways, the level of overlaying in photoshop is merely an extension of this process. Besides, we do not have to be super exact, only enough to see that there is a match and where the corresponding location is.
You will notice that in all of the examples, the locations are lined up roughly, not down to the ten or one foot level. This is where we then apply the Verses to get us to the casque location.
Note: Since I do not have the physical book, only digital versions, I have not tried to see what scale the Images to Maps might be. They may in fact lay onto a standard scaled map quite easily.

GoldenMartyr

The real question is why did Byron NOT believe they were the simplest to solve when he created them?

Do you have a source for this statement?

gManTexas

Do you have a source for this statement?

The Japanese hints for Boston certainly support this notion.

BINGO

The Japanese hints for Boston certainly support this notion.

I agree with you there bud.

I realize that this methodology thread is geared towards alternative thought processes for solving these puzzles. That’s fair simply because the majority of the casques haven’t been recovered and it’s likely that we have been missing something important all these years.
But, I have the belief that these puzzles were meant to be solved by locals. I think this “armchair” treasure hunt makes sense if your armchair is located in the city where the casque is buried. Why can’t the methodology just be simple? There are items hidden in the images that a local might recognize because it is something that he/she walks or works or plays near regularly. There are quotes or wording in the verses that might catch the attention of a local because the writer may have been famous or well known in that area. That wording could also point to a place or event that would be common knowledge to a local. I’m from Boston and the 982 train meant absolutely nothing to me before this hunt. I bet there were plenty of Houston locals that would recognize those numbers back in the 1980’s.
I hold no stock in a research project method for these puzzles. Research was a complete pain in the ass in 1982 in comparison to today. Libraries didn’t have search engines that you could search for 100 different terms in a matter of minutes. Al Gore was the only person who had access to the internet in 1982. (That was tongue in cheek for those who are politically sensitive.) My point is, why would Preiss make a research project out of these puzzles? It just doesn’t seem practical for the time period.
I know the Chicago and Cleveland puzzles aren’t popular discussion in this thread, but I believe both help get my point across. Chicago was done by local kids having fun and working together. They recognized important items and put a lot of important pieces of the puzzle together. Not from research, not from code breaking. They did it with their eyes and imagination. Everyone that loves to poo poo their success hasn’t come anywhere close to their accomplishments in these puzzles. Cleveland is the puzzle that people like to claim was the “easiest” of all of the puzzles. Why did it take 22 years for someone to recover it? My theory is that not many locals were looking for it. If they were, it would have been found sooner.
Bottom line, this was supposed to be a fun adventure that generated publicity for the book. What headline would benefit the book sales more? “Local teens solve mysterious treasure hunt” or “Harvard professor spends months in library to solve a puzzle with a $1000 prize”. I know what would grab my attention enough to buy a book.

BINGO

I realize that this methodology thread is geared towards alternative thought processes for solving these puzzles. That’s fair simply because the majority of the casques haven’t been recovered and it’s likely that we have been missing something important all these years.
But, I have the belief that these puzzles were meant to be solved by locals. I think this “armchair” treasure hunt makes sense if your armchair is located in the city where the casque is buried. Why can’t the methodology just be simple? There are items hidden in the images that a local might recognize because it is something that he/she walks or works or plays near regularly. There are quotes or wording in the verses that might catch the attention of a local because the writer may have been famous or well known in that area. That wording could also point to a place or event that would be common knowledge to a local. I’m from Boston and the 982 train meant absolutely nothing to me before this hunt. I bet there were plenty of Houston locals that would recognize numbers back in the 1980’s.
I hold no stock in a research project method for these puzzles. Research was a complete pain in the ass in 1982 in comparison to today. Libraries didn’t have search engines that you could search for 100 different terms in a matter of minutes. Al Gore was the only person who had access to the internet in 1982. (That was tongue in cheek for those who are politically sensitive.) My point is, why would Preiss make a research project out of these puzzles? It just doesn’t seem practical for the time period.
I know the Chicago and Cleveland puzzles aren’t popular discussion in this thread, but I believe both help get my point across. Chicago was done by local kids having fun and working together. They recognized important items and put a lot of important pieces of the puzzle together. Not from research, not from code breaking. They did it with their eyes and imagination. Everyone that loves to poo poo their success hasn’t come anywhere close to their accomplishments in these puzzles. Cleveland is the puzzle that people like to claim was the “easiest” of all of the puzzles. Why did it take 22 years for someone to recover it? My theory is that not many locals were looking for it. If they were, it would have been found sooner.
Bottom line, this was supposed to be a fun adventure that generated publicity for the book. What headline would benefit the book sales more? “Local teens solve mysterious treasure hunt” or “Harvard professor spends months in library to solve a puzzle with a $1000 prize”. I know what would grab my attention enough to buy a book.

Much of what you are saying is true, and most likely in 1982 you would have to be somewhat local, or spend time on the ground if you even figured out the correct Image and Verse pairing and then the location.
I would also agree that the Internet and by extension, email and cheap phone service has made this hunt easier for looking at remote locations. However, as we can all see, it hasn’t necessarily made it any easier to solve because it was designed primarily to be a boots-on-the-ground hunt.
I completely disagree that research is unnecessary. This is the very reason that these puzzles are poorly designed and haven’t been solved. They do require research. I am 92% convinced that if they were all like Chicago and Cleveland, this would have been wrapped up a while ago.
To your point that not many locals were looking, it is really a case of not that many people in general. There are maybe a couple hundred die hard searchers involved in this at the most. Of that, how many are active? So there really isn’t a large mind hive working toward solving these.

Since Bingo brought it up, I wanted to clarify a point about the found casques. I am not in any way trying to diminish the accomplishments of the guys who found the casques. I applaud their efforts and tenacity and it is a wonderful thing. It would be great to join that small circle of people.
What I have said is that I do not believe that those two puzzles were solved, not fully at least. I still maintain, especially after visiting both locations, that they are two of the easiest and most visual puzzles in the book. There were a ton of breadcrumbs in the Images and Verses. This is why the casques were found without solving the entire puzzles.
What I am also saying is that these two puzzles should not be viewed as a model for every puzzle. As I stated earlier, if this was the case, I firmly believe that at least a couple of additional casques would have already been found.

gManTexas

I completely disagree that research is unnecessary. This is the very reason that these puzzles are poorly designed and haven’t been solved. They do require research. I am 92% convinced that if they were all like Chicago and Cleveland, this would have been wrapped up a while ago.
Poorly designed or poorly interpreted? I think researching old photos and maps of suspected areas is priceless. To me, researching famous people and connecting dots to other famous people is fruitless.
To your point that not many locals were looking, it is really a case of not that many people in general. There are maybe a couple hundred die hard searchers involved in this at the most. Of that, how many are active? So there really isn’t a large mind hive working toward solving these.

gManTexas

I still maintain, especially after visiting both locations, that they are two of the easiest and most visual puzzles in the book. There were a ton of breadcrumbs in the Images and Verses. This is why the casques were found without solving the entire puzzles.
Since you mentioned that not many people were searching for these casques in general, especially in 1982, isn’t it possible that the bread crumbs from other puzzles have been eaten by the birds of time and the clues went permanently unnoticed? It just seems like the logical explanation to me.

gManTexas

Since Bingo brought it up, I wanted to clarify a point about the found casques. I am not in any way trying to diminish the accomplishments of the guys who found the casques. I applaud their efforts and tenacity and it is a wonderful thing. It would be great to join that small circle of people.
What I have said is that I do not believe that those two puzzles were solved, not fully at least. I still maintain, especially after visiting both locations, that they are two of the easiest and most visual puzzles in the book. There were a ton of breadcrumbs in the Images and Verses. This is why the casques were found without solving the entire puzzles.
What I am also saying is that these two puzzles should not be viewed as a model for every puzzle. As I stated earlier, if this was the case, I firmly believe that at least a couple of additional casques would have already been found.

I agree with gMan. I think the Chicago and Cleveland solves were brilliant! I’ve never solved a puzzle to that degree and probably never will. But I also don’t think we should absolutely model every solve after them. Each puzzle is unique. Here’s a very outside-of-the-box methodology I’ve been considering.
https://thesecretofthesecret.blog