As to whether or not Chanute was, strictly speaking, a friend of the Wrights… we may be reading too much into the word and overthinking it. They knew each other, they were all famous, and all a part of aviation history. I am comfortable using “friend” for that.
As to whether the reference to Chanute is too obscure for BP to have known about… I have concluded by this point that
NO
literary reference was too obscure for BP to have unearthed. Plenty of examples!

“Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing”
Using the new insite from Eljayo –
this does describe a Cemetary.
‘Last touched” would be the grave (by the deceased)
‘First seen standing’ would be the grave marker when one
is walking up to it.
I suspect that taking the proper path to mica and driftwood
would bring one to a grave site – probably marked with a figure on a pedistal.
Face North, with the maker between you and the beach – and thats a good spot
(no chance of it being random)

BP is explicit about casques NOT being buried in cemeteries.

Thinking about this, the cemetery, the pear an peaspoon in pic 3 is not “blue aura highlighted” (sorry about this words invented by me) so i think is just a confirmer that “you are in the right place”
Maybe the key is that odd object lie in the shore (seem like a spoon too)… what is this?
I would like to be there but…

shecrab

The only problem with the Pea Spoon theory is that BP did not have these aerial views when he wrote the book. I find it difficult to believe that he had ANY aerial views, in fact.The satellite pics that Google earth and other programs use now were not in use then by ordinary folk like us.

shecrab

Also—the “two friends of octave” was thought to be referencing the idea that the Wrights were friends of
Octave Chanute
, not anything to do with Route 12, though “friends” is a term applied VERY loosely here. They met, that is certain…but friends? I doubt it.

Long before google earth and the internet, there were these really neat paper things called maps. State Parks are infamous for having these.  ie:
This one does not show Pear Pad Rd but I am betting there is one around that does.
They may have not dined together every weekend but I think there is plenty of information out there that suggests that they met and were acquainted with one another.  To be a ‘friend’ does not necessarily mean to be best buddies with.
FRIEND:
http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/friend
I think we are trying to split hairs here.  Let us suppose that BP chose ‘somewhere’ {used very loosely} around Kill Devil Hill / Roanoke to bury one of his casques.  A solid confirmer to this site would be, of course, the WB themselves.  BP learned that O & W knew Mr. Chanute personally, liked the fact that Mr. Chanute had a unique first name, used lower case to make it a little more challenging……&…..viola…. he gives us “Two friends of octave”.  Everything {well, almost} else in this V SCREAMS we have the [W]right location…especially “By dauntless and inconquerable”!!!
Why are we even arguing this????

I really am not sure how much more clear this has to be.  Yes, before saying it, the Memorial reads (u)nconquerable instead of (i)nconquerable.  Why?  Not sure, maybe it was BP’s choosing or perhaps just his mistake.  The 18th & 19th lines of this V read:
“To achieve
By dauntless and inconquerable”
Is there a reason why BP chose to use the word “achieve” in this puzzle?  Yes…because that is what it says on the Memorial.
“”In commemoration of the conquest of the air by the brothers Wilbur and Orville Wright conceived by genius resolution faith.”
They achieved their goal {flight} now let’s achieve ours {our casque}.
How much more concrete, well in the case of the Memorial, granite can this V be?

hmmm, never saw these guys before.  Wonder what they are doing hanging out in the E Gardens…

Hmm, I wonder what those gnomes are admiring!

That would be Fair to ask

Gnomes & Fairies…

forest_blight

Ha! I wish I could, but I didn’t put it there. If you visit the park, you’ll see a clearing with a gigantic, vivid, bright yellow X on the ground.
you can indeed see the memorial from Roanoke. It’s small on the horizon, yes, but its elevation is such that if you know where to look, there is no doubt about it.

Good one FB.  What I should have asked was if anyone who had been there, checked out the beach at the other side of the square parking lot at the end of Dare Ave.  I think this part of the beach would be considred outside of the Historical Site.  So, did anyone?  I can’t get a look off of local.live.com

I did not go there. Good question though.

Found the attached document:
http://www.nps.gov/archive/fora/longrange2001.htm
Nice piece of government burocracy.
Look down about 3/4s of the way…
It talks about signs along the trails describing the indians and settlers
use of natural resources and earth friendly materials.
I would bet that one of those signs has ‘mica’ and ‘driftwood’

fox

Long before google earth and the internet, there were these really neat paper things called maps. State Parks are infamous for having these.  ie:

Fox, there is a very defined circle and square in that map.
(i’m probably beating this up too much)

I am well aware of the circle and square on that map.  I was stating that the “spoon shaped” road that was mentioned was not on this map.
Didnt you like my idea I posted under P3 thread

Ahhh. I hear ya.  I like eljayo’s thinking.  Only I don’t know if you can dig in there.  I posted on v3.  Like that spot too.  Can you dig there?

I’ve really been thinking a lot about “mica and driftwood.” I always wanted this to mean “the beach” (i.e., sand and driftwood), but it never felt right that BP would have two words pointing to the beach, especially when he uses words so carefully. Plus, sand isn’t really mica,right?
I was very interested in the uses of mica for a while, and I tried to find portions of the palisade that used joint compound. I wondered about its use as a fire retardant and how the theater had burned so many times. Recently, I came across a small building on the beach that is sided with asbestos… Would that count?
What are your thoughts on “mica?”

always thought of mica, as in stone maybe a sandstone building, or wall
http://www.mcmonaglestone.ie/_fileUploa … os_012.jpg
http://www.houzz.com/photos/2439073/Ren … iladelphia

kato did you try the outside of the gate
i just dont see B.P. walking around the gardens
with casque and shovel in hand
or maybe this line has a double meaning if he did
to achieve by dauntless and inconquerable determination
A Matter of Perspective
though p3 seems to indicate, inside looking out
and not outside looking in
the key on the right, in p3, has a odd shape on the top of it.
i looked at the garden map that was posted, thinking maybe
it was the shape of the area, where casque is buried,could
be the map is not detailed enough

How about a what if….
What if… “A path beckons To mica and driftwood” is just referencing what you should see from the dig spot.
this phrase does not actually say “
take the path
that leads to mica and driftwood”
What if…  BP gave us an “X marks the spot” on I3 ?
In the bottom left an object hangs at the bottom of a very long string which could be pointing to a spot.
BP does mention maps in the V and maybe you need a map to compare to the image.
I’ve marked an X on the park map and on the section of I3 where they could match up.
Also, if you look on the map below the X I’ve marked, you see a small pillar just “after circle and square”
I can not find a picture of this pillar online , and I wonder if it matches the on in I3 that supports the armor.

cw0909: The half suite of Elizabethan armor is inside the visitors center, along with lots of other artifacts that may be germane to Verse 11 and Image 3.  This Verse and Image pairing is a little bit like the Japanese film
Rashomon,
where the same event is examined from diametrically different positions, with widly disparate interpretations.  Good hunting.

both really good new theories. i really like the new take on the lines leading to ‘dare’ and perhaps her statue. she was the first born in the usa.

cw, remember the found ones were in cultural gardens or parks.  BP was sneaky, i believe i read where he’d sneak in at night, or use maintenance clothes and stuff like that, i’m sure he wasn’t obvious about it.
cormac, i do like the map idea, i’m just not finding a good map of these gardens, they used to have one, and i’m sure i saved it on my old computer, but i can’t seem to find that one again. i like the thought of the shape of the park somewhere in the image.
here’s something at the overlook:
http://www.elizabethangardens.org/tourkey12.html
i’ve been thinking those bells could  be for “sound”, like “roanoke sound” (the waterway)
thanks fox  ;D  , i really like Dare too, but we gotta get the hunters liking it, lol ………..ooops, you are a hunter, maybe you can get up there?
when they say “elizabethan garden theater” are they talking about the waterside theater with the lost colony?
look at this:
he Diary of Adam and Eve – The Elizabethan Gardens Theatre, (252) 473-3234. Tuesdays at 2:30 p.m. in July and August.
from this site:
http://www.roanokeisland.net/recreation/

I did poke around on the outside of the gate, which is on the beach and accessable from the National Historic Park.  I also don’t see how BP could have possibly buried the casque
inside
the Gate, which is of course inside the Elizabethan Gardens. Too many people.  But,he would have had much more privacy on the beach.  The Gardens are always full of tourists who love to gaze out over the Gate.  From the outside of the Gate there is an unobstructed view of the Wright Memorial (the Wing).  All you have to do is look at it and dig.  My probing could have easily missed the exact spot.   Keep the ideas coming guys.

kato, did you poke in the middle of the gate?
what if those last lines have more to do with the treasure than just to make you think of the Wright brothers?  “to achieve by dauntless and inconquerable determination”………….Dare?  the statue, the road?
dare
–verb (used without object)
1. to have the necessary courage or boldness for something; be bold enough: You wouldn’t dare!
–verb (used with object)
2. to have the boldness to try; venture; hazard.
3. to meet defiantly; face courageously.
4. to challenge or provoke (a person) into a demonstration of courage; defy: to dare a man to fight.
dauntless
Synonyms:
1. undaunted,
daring
, indomitable, brave, courageous.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hikerpark/2847235218/
looks like she is on a column and maybe that word “may” means she “possibly” last touched or stood here, lol

Unfortunately, the northern shore of Roanoke Island is eroding at an alarming rate. A 1972 study determined that the “shoreline on the northern end of Roanoke Island receded more than 900 feet between 1851 and 1970 because of erosion, with 158 feet of loss occurring between 1903 and 1971.” That’s 2.3 feet per year. If the beach is eroding at the same rate today (which I don’t believe is the case), that means we’ve lost about 53 feet of beach since
The Secret
was written (!).
http://www.nps.gov/fora/pdf/fora_ah.pdf
Concrete blocks were put in place around 1980 to prevent erosion around the Waterside Theatre (where
The Lost Colony
is performed) and the Dough Cemetery, but neither of these actions served to protect “our” area of the beach.
Jetties, pilings, and groins have been built to protect various parts of the beach since the early 1940s, but it is unclear what good this has done. The crude wooden jetties currently extending into the sea from the shoreline just outside the Elizabethan Gardens and Fort Raleigh appear to be the same ones built c. 1950 (see nodon’s photos), so with any luck there hasn’t been much erosion there in the last 23 years. However, signs of erosion are clear. For example, the ground surrounding some of the pilings of the fence around the Gardens has been almost completely eroded away. These pilings would have been sunk several yards from the bank at the time of the fence’s construction.
What puzzles me is the purpose of these posts sticking up out of the water:
Unlike jetties, which extend perpendicular to the beach, these lie in a line parallel to the beach, and are of different heights. Also, what could these sawn-off posts have been in 1982?
Something clearly related to to
that / Which may be last touched / Or first seen standing
? A sign of some kind? If so, then the verse would point to the spot directly between the posts. The verse does say
Under
, not
Beside
, and there are only so many things the casque could be buried
Under
. Just trying to apply a little logic here.

How about the bench?  This could work in a multitude of ways.  First off….something could definitely be buried
under
the bench.  Whether it has been there all along is another matter however.  Secondly,  “First seen standing”…. What is the first thing you see when standing up from sitting on the bench?  I know, quite a stretch….but unfortunately, it seems like stretches are all we have got at the moment.
Just thought of this as well.  Who were the colonists that first arrived in this area?  Maybe there is a legend or a log of their arrival that specifically mentions “a something” that was first seen as they approached.
????????????????????

Forest—
Where is this bench located?  Is it to the left of the gate to the beach?  It’s so hard to navigate virtually around these treasure sites when you haven’t visited them!

Is there now (or could there have been at the time of the casque burial) a sign in
Braille
?  If so, it would explain the “last touched or first seen standing” line.
Drew

thanks chad, thats what i was thinking, just didnt think, to overlay
from the other 2 finds i think, the casque was just a few feet, from the
the reference point in pic
seems easy enough to sneak around, early morning hours, or late day,
to get the job done out side of the Egate. not to sure about inside
the gate though

i like that map, good job!
don’t forget your poker cane thingie cw!
if you get caught just call slappybuns at 1-800-NOT-HOME

If your square peg doesnt fit your round hole, get a bigger hammer.

maltedfalcon

If your square peg doesnt fit your round hole, get a bigger hammer.

The Secret didn’t come with an instruction manual, nor did it come with specifications on the size of Preiss’ hammer.

erexere

I see that similarity.  Is that park boundary a physical wall?

I went over to Dare Road. The road that runs next to the park. I spent some time looking around. The park has a chain link fence running along it’s boundary. There is very little space bettween the fence and paved road. on the other side is a row of houses. Same at the end. There are four houses that seem to own the beach access too. I saw nothing that I could link to the image or verse. I will post some photos I took along the water front and near the Water Gate behind the Elisabethan Gardens. Cheers to all!

Glossiphoniidae

Only have a minute and wanted to add to the “things hanging.” Hanging off a horizontal line to the right of the window is Roanoke Island (the land by the window). Just to the right of the island, and the only other thing hanging off that line, seems to be the Hariot Trail.

Sounds interesting but we’d need the pics. I’m not doing all the donkey work for you.  😉

WhiteRabbit

Sounds interesting but we’d need the pics. I’m not doing all the donkey work for you.  😉

I see that similarity.  Is that park boundary a physical wall?

WhiteRabbit

It’s a minor point. I just didn’t want this thread to get too hung up on stuff that’s not there, like some others have been…

I’m with you there.
Anything that helps us to reconstruct the world of 1980 at least has the
potential
to be useful.  I think it’s at least a relevant tack to take.

Don’t get me wrong, I’m interested in the possibility that there might once have been a sign there, but look what we’ve got already…
After circle and square
In July and August
A path beckons
To mica and driftwood
It looks as though this could have taken you from the circle and square of the parking lot, past where the “In July and August” monument used to be, to the Hariot Trail.
Where white is in color
With two maps
Look north at the wing
And dig
The two solved casques were pinpointed by the verse rather than the image. I don’t think we can assume they all are, but either way, I don’t see how the sign (if there was a sign) could help to pinpoint this. Sure, there might be some visual confirmer, but like I say, I think there’s sufficient grounds already. I think it’s very unlikely to shed light on “that which is last touched or first seen standing”. Sure, it’s worth trying to find out, but it’s not the only thing to consider.
At the moment I’m more interested in the idea that the visual confirmer could be the railing (or some other feature at this location we haven’t seen, like a wire fence), since unlike the sign, that could indicate an actual spot to dig.
It’s a minor point. I just didn’t want this thread to get too hung up on stuff that’s not there, like some others have been…

Do we have any linguists here? I’m looking at this verse and the word “inconquerable” is curious. I know this word was used long ago, but fell out of favor for unconquerable.
The dedication on the Wright Brothers monument uses the word Unconquerable.
Is this just a grammatical error or does it refer to something other than the Wright Brothers?

JamesRenner

Apologies if this has been discussed before, but has anyone looked into Coronado Island outside San Diego as a possibility? There are a ton of L Frank Baum connections there and several possible parks.

I lived in San Diego for a long time, I was never able to find any probable links to either verses or images.

Here are those telegraph poles again, on display at the airport museum…
I’ve always been interested in this place – you could certainly “look north at the wing” from somewhere south of it. Paul, if you get bored one day maybe you’d like to take a look round. I’d be interested to see if there was anything about goals there.
http://www.darenc.com/airport/museum.htm
Here’s that article about the “dropped watch” that’s framed and on display there. How many Roanoke exhibits involving planes and watches can there be…?
(Erexere…what connects 1500 to a horned figure…? See P210.  ;))
Interesting that this article describes a jewellery box containing the watch being dropped into the boat harbour.
There’s a road that leads to
Dark forest
A path beckons
To mica and driftwood
This airport has
Driftwood Rd
going past it. That has to be worth a look.
It would be interesting to see what this area is like.

shecrab

In further response:
That which may be last touched:
the end of the trail–it’s touched last because you’re there at the location you need to be at.
or first seen standing:
Meaning you cannot see it SITTING DOWN. You would only see it if you STAND UP. Something that is in a depression or hollow–or behind something ELSE.

You dont touch the end of a trail you look at it or (you dont even do that because you are facing away from it.)
on a bench The last thing you touch when you stand is the seat you were sitting on.  The thing that becomes visible or only can be seen once you stand is also the seat where you were sitting.
Bringing in a depression where something is hidden is a possibility I thought the same thing. but that becomes really iffy and only works in one exact spot. so now not only are we looking for an exact spot in a depression, we are looking for an exact spot where we can only view the depression while standing there….
its buried under a bench.

maltedfalcon

The thing that becomes visible or only can be seen once you stand is also the seat where you were sitting.

Actually I think you’ll find you can see a bench while you’re sitting on it.
But don’t take my word for it. Give it a try.

Yes, I agree that “May be last touched, and first seen standing”
is a bench/seat.  Its nice and compact logic and gives a definite
unmoving spot to dig.
The problem now is which one.
The path to Mica amd Driftwood is
the path to the Theater (made of wood and sitting right on the beach)
The Theater does have many many seats, but probably none of which
can be dug under.
Then we get to which bench on which path.
The one in which we can look North and see the Wright Brothers Monument with a clear sight line.
There can be only one of those.

…yeah, and I could pick it up with one hand.

The verse is using an opposite to make its point of
where to dig.
The opposite of standing is sitting.  Its a rather crude
try at a play on words.  The better play on words which is
only implied is ‘seat’:
That is both which is last touched and what is first seen after sitting.

I still like the idea of this being a pun on a shoemaker’s last…
The costume resembles a Roman soldier’s red leather skirt.
Perhaps what is last touched and first seen standing is something made of
leather
– which may be touched by a shoemaker’s last, and first seen standing while it’s still alive.
Flying helmets are also often leather.
(There’s a newspaper article featuring a leather flying helmet and a watch on display at the local
airport museum
– see
here
.)
Worth keeping an eye open for leather anyway (and museum references to leather or Romans).

Weisshassen!  You’re back!
I love the loblolly speculation.  It was brought up long ago.  Nothing came of it.
I keep looking for spins on “oz”.  I feel there’s room for a two or three supporting nudges in the right direction relating to Baum’s universe.  Why is the “oz” NOT capitalized?  I say little “o” for little people.  Sweet, subtle, simple.  (Shecrab made that observation if I recall).  The Loblolly sparks something in my imagination about the Munchkins of the Lollipop Guild…bit that’s a very minor spark if anything.
In a scenario of a sinking ship, the square of the mast is first to be swallowed by the sea, after that the circular crow’s nest…and then the top is last touched…*glug glug*.
I go with mast interpretation because it is most directly interpreted by image.  It goes solidly with the glass insulator of a telephone or telegraph pole, something not discussed with the Roanoke-centric theory.  I say find the “mast”, find the casque.
The bench looking north at the Wright wing is highly dissociated from verse or image.  I’m first going to consider a perspective of some significance over a randomly associated idea.  But apparently thats just me.

wow, I just reviewed the entire thread carefully and I have to agree it’s there under the  bench. The interpretation of the digging line “Under that which may be lat touched or first seen standing” is spot on.
Benches will always first be seen standing and is the last thing touched when sitting down. If I wasn’t 2000 miles away I would go dig myself. I hope someone gets a chance to dig. In the sand I bet the box is intact.

I love that
any piece of wood would have been first seen standing.
So what is the last piece of wood you touch at the location of the park?
a railing, a gate?
WhiteRabbit,
dig the hole directly behind the bench and then widen it once you have reached the proper depth.
it would be pretty easy,
but I think you’re right its not under the bench.
my bet is the railing.

hi paul kitchen,nice to have you back, forest blight has put up some imgs and in this one
http://www.kspot.org/trove/roanoke/IMG_0844.jpg
of the (bench and rail) if you are
standing behind the bench looking out to sea, and look down at the back leg of the bench
on your right, you can see what looks like a sawed off square post,keep looking to the right
down at the 2 round sawed off posts, it looks like another sawed off square post.
paul when you have time could you rake around that area and see if 2 more square posts
are there, im thinking an old wood bench with the legs buried may be what those square
sawed off posts are from, thank you
going to try and add a link to img
https://docs.google.com/file/d/0B0VtiYo … sp=sharing
FB imgs he put up thanks FB
http://www.kspot.org/trove/roanoke/

maltedfalcon

I love that
any piece of wood would have been first seen standing.
So what is the last piece of wood you touch at the location of the park?
a railing, a gate?
WhiteRabbit,
dig the hole directly behind the bench and then widen it once you have reached the proper depth.
it would be pretty easy,
but I think you’re right its not under the bench.
my bet is the railing.

It looks like a drop off and sand under the railing. Perhaps Mr Paul can get better pics of the area. Further pics of the bench would aloe in order. I would love to know how hi it sits off the ground and how is it secured to the ground. Cement? Bolts? something else?

Trohn

…the right side of the stage has a representation of the boat as a mast which actually moves on and off the stage within the production…

I don’t see how you could possibly dig a hole under the bench.
It’s fixed in place isn’t it? How are you going to get a spade under that?
I’d like to see some more pics around this area. The “last touched” is reminiscent of the Croatoan tree. Was this a fir tree…? “Pine” and “fir” seem to be used fairly interchangeably, and I think there are plenty around the place. Given Preiss’ tree fixation maybe it’s “firs seen standing” – what Thomas called: “Firre trees fit for masts of ships”.
I quite like the ship’s mast interpretation of the image. It would be interesting to see what the one used in the production looks like.
Pine trivia:
Loblolly
(as seen on the Hariot Trail sign above) means “low, wet place”. The word “low” appears upwards in the verse initials (and in the English section of the introduction).
W
hich may be last touched
O
r first seen standing
L
ook north at the wing
Is there a pine by the bench? Or maybe that railing is pine…? (The railing could also be “first seen standing” as a tree.)

Hi Paul – thanks for your great research on this trail so far. So, this sign…
…is at (1) on this map.
I was wondering about interpreting the verse something like this:
There’s a road that leads to
Dark forest
The road out of the parking lot
Where white is in color
In the place where there are White watercolours
With two maps
These two, or another two…I guess these could pass as maps, or the maps could have been in the Visitor Center. Where’s this one BTW…?
After circle and square
Parking lot
In July and August
Monument
A path beckons
To mica and driftwood
Maybe the same as the “road that leads to dark forest” – the road out of the parking area…?
Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing
Not known. I was playing with ideas like “stone post”…
last – last post
touched – touchstone
first – first post
standing – standing stone
I guess the stone pillar in the pic has made me biased.  😉
Look north at the wing
And dig
To achieve
By dauntless and inconquerable
Determination
Your goal
Kitty Hawk confirmer for the general area – perhaps also something else which might be “wing-like”. (I don’t suppose there is/was some kind of barrier arm round here…?)
Another very random idea…crown/king/parking…?
You mentioned the gazebo – I was quite keen on that at one time, used to ramble on about it
here
but I’ve always been a bit dubious about burying things behind a ticket barrier, and I’m starting to prefer the area around the visitor center and the road leading out of the parking lot. What kind of terrain does it pass through…? Are there any walls, fences, stone pillars to be seen round here…?
(Re: your query about month / birth flower / birthstone, it’s not known how these fit into the solutions, and they might not. They weren’t used for the first two, although they’re an interesting possibility. I quite like January/Janus/God of doorways.)

Here is a photograph of a sign that might be the “Two Maps”. It is located on a “Path” that begins in the northwest corner of a “Square” parking area accessed from a traffice “circle”.

I think “two maps” is more likely to refer to something like this:

Do you know the physical location of this sign. I have not found this one inside Fort Raleigh NHS. Thanks

It is at the beach end of the Thomas Hariot Nature Trail, in the Ft. Raleigh park.
This is the spot from which you can look north and literally see the “wing” of the Wright Brothers memorial with the naked eye, if you know where to look. I think the casque is here somewhere, and I’d give a lot to know what those two sawed-off posts once supported.

This is well away from the quotes though, Forest – there are other signs and White watercolours including maps at the Fort Raleigh Visitor Center….

There’s a road that leads to
Dark forest
Where white is in color
With two maps
After circle and square
In July and August
A path beckons
I find a lot in this verse that seems… oddly ordered. “There’s a road that leads to / Dark forest” I totally get, since there’s a road that leads to the plaque on the EG’s front wall that contains the words “dark forest” on it. However, “Where white is in color” would lead us instead next-door, to the Fort Raleigh visitor’s center. “With two maps” could refer to the location of the “two maps” mentioned in the previous line, or it could form a part of the next, separate part of the verse “With two maps / After circle and square.” This would put us back in the EG or in the parking lot, depending on your persuasion. But the next lines “In July and August / A path beckons” puts us now behind the Ft. Raleigh visitor’s center with that memorial stone.

Excuse me for a moment, I can’t recall where I read that White drew a map with a feature that other maps didnt have.  It was a false cape or something.  It isn’t there now, but geographers discovered proof that it was there at some point and White was the only one to have accurately mapped it.  Maybe that instance was the reason for the “two maps” reference…there’s HIS map and then there’s someone elses.  Anyone come across that reference?

just a synaptic twitch….
but what would happen if you buried the probe of a common fish finder…? Does it become underground sonor? Or does it become junk?

regulus, did i miss your post?  please, tell us what you found!
i can’t wait to hear your story!
please!!!!!

regulus

I went to DC to see the sights, monuments, and history… ever since I saw the movie, National Treasure, I’ve wanted to go there.
-regulus

I’ve heard unsubstantiated reports that the Declaration of Independence is missing….oh my, you didn’t……….
Meet me in Boston, I know where the occular device is hidden.

oops, of course the device is in Philly….my mind is still sold on a casque being in Beantown…

here is the nps website of the Administrative History if you want to take it off of your personal site
http://www.nps.gov/archive/fora/pdf/fora_ah.pdf

Sorry, I should have been more specific.  I was wondering if the official rules of The Secret have been put on this forum anywhere along with all the other scans.  I haven’t got the book and would like to read those too.

Here they are:
http://kspot.org/trove/rules.jpg

I’m excited to be able to contribute here.  If anyone else is in the area, please go and snap a photo of the dig and the sign and post it for us.  You can’t miss it.  It’s on the TH trail and it’s a very large square hole surrounded by yellow tape.  The notice is on a tree next to it.  That is the only new photo I think I could have added to the great ones already shared here and the only thing I am disappointed about.
This was my first attempt to a real site for the purpose of treasure hunting and it was very exciting for me, especially that feeling that I already knew the area and where I was going thanks to everyone’s photos.  You were all truly there with me in spirit. The best thing about that is I had very little time to look and knowing the area in advance helped me save alot of time I would otherwise have spent on maps and such just to orient myself.  Instead I was saying, “Oh, there’s that statue…and there’s that bench!”  The place seemed smaller to me than on the maps I’ve seen also.
I didn’t see anything physically new that hasn’t already been discussed but the experience was still informative.  Having gone through the gardens myself, it occured to me that if BP buried his treasure today, he would have needed a large shovel and it would have been very difficult to get one into the gardens because you have to pass through the small gift shop to get in and out, it is only open during the day, and there is barbed wire on the chain link fence around the site.  If he buried it within the gardens, he probably would have had to bring the shovel in to the beach area and toss it over the fence, then go back around through the gardens to retrieve it.  At night I don’t see how he could have done it so that isn’t a very strong case for me that it is buried in the gardens.  But I do see it would be possible to dig at night outside the gardens.
If only I hadn’t seen that darned notice posted….
Thanks to all of you who have made this such a rich experience!

Well, it’s been a few days and in that time I have flown to NC on unrelated business.  I was able to make an impromptu trip out to Roanoke Island, a 5 hour drive each way from where I’m staying but worth it just to see the site first-hand.  Unfortunately, I only had less than 2 hours at the EG the first evening and the same at the Thomas Hariot Trail the next morning.
Shecrab you were right.  Just so happens there was an official archeological dig taped off along the Thomas Hariot trail when I arrived and on a nearby tree a warning was posted and it states very clearly that no unauthorized excavation or disturbances of the property of any kind are allowed at Fort Raleigh under penalty of a $10,000 fine or up to a year in jail.  Sorry to all I did not have a camera so I can’t provide a photo but believe me it was very clearly spelled out.  I guess the question remains…is the beach a part of the national park?  I don’t know what the rules are for beaches in NC.
I probably won’t make it back to this site and don’t think the risk is worth it to me now anyway.  But I had a great time and for those who are still interested in seeing it for themselves, I can report that there was virtually no one at the gardens near their closing time and no one on the beach early morning before the gardens opened but later it got pretty crowded.  The beach is very nice and I did find little pieces of granite (mica?) at the waterside theatre site.  And the water line along the beach is made of a striking black sand.  Perhaps this is a reference to mica as well.  And as Forest Blight has already warned – Bring Your Bug Spray!

oh ferrymaiden, no camera!
still, you’ve seen the sights everyone has talked about, so maybe something different will come to you, some idea we haven’t heard before.
i’m sorry your trip was disappointing, the warnings and all.
i admire your adventurous spirit!  and thank you for telling us!

Just a quick question. Does anyone live close to Salt Lake City or have any plan on being in the area in the future?

There was some question earlier about the sign on p. 62 (document p. 81) of
this publication
. The photo was taken in June, 1963, and thus might have been there in 1981. I was dying to know if the sign mentioned “mica and driftwood” (if it did, I would be basking in your communal adulation right now). So I did some digging, of the non-shovel variety. So far as I’m able to determine, the sign says this:
THOMAS HARIOT TRAIL
This trail honors a naturalist with
Lane’s colony. It leads by gentle
grades among wooded dunes to
the sound shore before returning
to this path. Walking takes 15 min-
utes, but you can enjoy an hour
spent here. You can learn more
of the colonists’ history and iden-
tify plants they found and used as
described by Hariot in his
Briefe and True report
.

cw0909

hi paul,could you tell me what signs,markers, are at the blue points, i marked on the insert of this map
of the trail,and is there only one trail in the park
the line look north to the wing,…….could it be a wing of the theater
you sound like you would like to dig something LOL, id feel the same way if i was there,as much as
you are. hell i would prob have dug and probed the whole park,by summers end,LOL
trail map
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/ … VAcpw/edit

Hi, I am sorry because I do not see any blue points on your map. It does not seem to open correctly and shows very little detail of the park. Please give me more details of the locations and I will try to help you out. Regards, Paul.
Further, I am looking at the Waterside Theater very closely. I think that the “Which may be last touched or First seen standing” is a flag pole. There is such a pole in the theater that has a sandy area just to the north of it. And, I can see the wing of the Wright Brothers National Monument. I am also looking at the flag pole in front of the park visitor center. Just north of it is a possible spot. But I cannot see any wing. There is more to look at there. The third possible flag pole is right in the middle of the earthen fort. It is in line to see the wing, but through thick brush. Maybe thirty years ago it could be spotted. I am not ready to dig yet. But, perhapes soon. Who knows what might pop up and make sense.

actually where flagpole would not work – You cant put it under a flagpole. you could put it at the base or in front of but under would not work
Also that would then mean you would also need a direction (north from, behind, in the direction of an object of twains attention, etc,
but he says under.
however a flag would certainly work, The most obvious direction would in the direction of the prevailing wind from the flagpole.
Still if you got there on a day when the wind was blowing from another direction you would never find the casque.
Railing or bench still seems to me to be the best bet.

hi paul,could you tell me what signs,markers, are at the blue points, i marked on the insert of this map
of the trail,and is there only one trail in the park
the line look north to the wing,…….could it be a wing of the theater
you sound like you would like to dig something LOL, id feel the same way if i was there,as much as
you are. hell i would prob have dug and probed the whole park,by summers end,LOL
trail map
https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/ … VAcpw/edit

Rocinante, the name of Don Quixote’s horse, has an interesting connotation. It basically means “putting an old nag up on a pedestal.” Someone who is past their prime being elevated to a grand status, such as Don Quixote himself.

Unknown

Unknown:
In commemoration of the conquest of the air by the brothers Wilbur and Orville Wright conceived by genius achieved by
dauntless resolution
and unconquerable faith.

Unknown

Unknown:
Let this duenna come and ask what she will, for I will effect her relief by the might of my arm and the
dauntless resolution
of my bold heart.

The Wright Brothers memorial words,
From Don Quixote, Vol. II, end of Chapter XXXVI,
Viginia Dare (American), born August 1587
Miquel de Cervantes (Spain), lived 1547-1616.
I’m taking note of the contemporary timeline. It was because of the mounting war with Spain that John White left the Roanoke Colony. He returned 3 years later to learn of the Colony’s disappearance.

Ooh!  And look, on the main map, the circle and square are clearly shown.
http://www.elizabethangardens.org/garde … spx#mapkey

I’m also convinced that the brickwork near the roof links this verse with Image 9 (the checkboard pattern on the guy’s shirt upsidedown).

hey cat, where did you find the info about the plaque mentioning Dark Forest?  Seems to me parks are prized property now that 2 of the 12 have been found in parks.  This could be VERY promising.
here is a nice layout of the area:
http://www.outerbanks.com/elizabethangardens/map.htm

Unknown

Unknown:
could this be the circle, square, July, and August (7th and 8th Ave.)?

If so, then “In December” must refer to 12th Ave.

Unknown

Unknown:
hey cat, where did you find the info about the plaque mentioning Dark Forest?  Seems to me parks are prized property now that 2 of the 12 have been found in parks.

http://www.elizabethangardens.org/garde … .aspx?id=1
sorry if i forgot to post that earlier.

Bumping this thread up as the summer is a nice time to
see an outdoor play….
“A path beckons to …
“Mica and driftwood” in July and August
mica – to represent sand
driftwood – to represent the stage
The part to complete…
“Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing”
Well… here is “first seen standing”…
Lost Colony: A Symphonic Drama of American History: Product details Lost Colony: A Symphonic Drama of American History
by Green, Paul
Rate it
Product detailsCompare pricesReviews & ratings
In 1937, “The Lost Colony, Paul Green’s dramatic retelling of the founding and mysterious disappearance of the Roanoke Island colony, opened to standing-room-only audiences and rave reviews.
Since then, the beloved outdoor drama has played to more than 3 million people, and it is still going strong. Produced by the Roanoke Island Historical Association at the… More Waterside Theater near Manteo, North Carolina, “The Lost Colony has run for more than sixty summers almost without interruption. (Production was suspended during World War II, when the threat of German submarines prowling the coast made an extended blackout necessary.) The model for modern outdoor theater, “The Lost Colony combines song, dance, drama, special effects, and music to breathe life into shadowy legend. This rendering of the play’s text, edited and with an introduction by Laurence Avery, brings this pioneering work back into print.

“Under that
Which may be last touched”
Interesting phrase that holds the clue
to the final spot…..
DAY TOURS
This is a unique, up-close look at our theatre, costume shop, scene shop and prop rooms which the general public rarely have the opportunity to see.
Your tour starts at the Fort Raleigh National Historic Site Visitors Center (The Lindsay Warren Visitor Center) where a Park Service Ranger addresses the significance of Fort Raleigh for its historic preservation, archaeological treasures, and educational importance. Before you leave The Visitors Center, you will see a short video entitled “Roanoke: The Lost Colony”.
After a short tour through the park leading to the Waterside Theatre, the Park Ranger will then turn your group over to a Lost Colony Guide for the remainder of your tour. Your guide will continue with a narrative about the historic significance of the “hallowed ground” of Fort Raleigh and answer questions about The Lost Colony production as well as the theatre, grounds, costumes, props, actors and characters from the show.
EVENING TOURS
Discover the magic of ‘backstage’ each evening prior to the show by being one of the first 50 people to purchase a $3 ticket for our backstage tour.
The Costume Shop is the highlight of the tour as your group mingles among the many and varied actual costumes used in the drama each night.
As you move on to the scene shop and prop rooms you can see actors and technicians at work and watch as dancers warm up for the show. You will have the opportunity to see up-close stage combat and uncover the art of illusion. The tour begins promptly at 6:30pm at The Lost Colony Box Office and ends at 7:30pm. Groups wishing to attend the pre-performance tour must register and pay the $3 per person in advance of the attendance date and the group number will not be limited to 50.
Cost of all tours is $3 per person
RESERVATIONS ARE REQUIRED
Contact The Lost Colony Marketing Department at (252) 473-2127, ext. 225
Large groups may be divided into two or three smaller groups at the discretion of the tour guide.
-I wonder what ornates the outside of the Costume Shop?
Could it be a replica of the found suit of armor?

Oh Geez, looks like this just got a little harder….the aftermath of another fire.  Thank god we can rely on members for photos!  FB, thanks for the link I am purusing them now.
Here’s what I found about mica:
North Carolina is blessed with an abundance of granite.  You’ll typically find quartz, feldspar,
mica
, and hornblende folded into it. If granite has the right physical properties, it can be cut into block and used for monuments.
Guess which monument is made of this North Carolina glittery material? Yup!  It’s the Wright Memorial!

Ferrymaiden:  From the DARE marker you can see the ruins of FT. Raleigh directly in front of you and slightly to your right.  You cannot see the Waterside Theatre because of the dense forest, but if you could it would be in front of you on your right, past the ruins of Ft. Raleigh.  You cannot see the Elizabethian Gardens either because of the trees, but from this point the Gardens are to the left and the entrance is perhaps 500 feet away and slightly behind you.  You also cannot see the entrance to the Hariot Trail, but you would come to it eventually after passing the ruins of Ft Raleigh on your right. As I and others have pointed out before, you cannot look north at the Wing unless you are clear of the forrest, and on or near the beach itself.  You cannot see the Wing from the Hariot Trail or from anywhere else inside the forrest.  You cannot see the Wing from the bench, even if you stand on it ( due to the dense foliage blocking your view).  Thus, as has been pointed out by Forrest Blight, you have to move toward the beach from the bench area to find whatever “may be last touched or first seen standing.”  The path to the beach from the bench area is
very
short, perhaps only 15 feet.  I cannot account for what this area looked like in 1982, so perhaps you
could
see the Wing from the bench area back then.  But today you can’t due to dense growth which runs right down to the beach.

ferrymaiden – My eyes are no longer out there, I’m afraid (I live in Kansas now).
I seem to recall that you *could* see the Wing from the lookout on the Hariot Trail without going past the railing. You just had to squint and know where to look.

A park service ranger told me a couple of years ago: “There was once a very handsome dual post sign for the Thomas Harriot Nature Trail near the trail entrance. It seems to have been removed, perhaps due to rot.” He also told me (now confirmed by this photo) that the trail was originally blazed in the 1960s. He was sort of young, so if he remembers the sign from personal experience, it would certainly have been there in 1981-ish.
Clearly, we need to find out what that sign said.

The document doesn’t appear to be online anymore, but I have my tricky ways
and was able to unearth it. It’s posted
here
, at least for awhile. According to the document, the Hariot Trail was created c. 1960. The name was suggested by Albert Bell. Incidentally, there are bells in P3.

That’s the correct document, Forest blight.  Can you remind me what website it is on?  Are you having any better luck reading the sign?  I am hoping there is some magic technology someone can apply to the image.  So I guess this wasn’t the sign at the beach afterall – bummer!  But it is great we know more about it now.
Kato – I am eternally grateful for your description of the site!
It really brought the place to life for me and has helped to rule out many distracting ideas.  I do agree that being able to see the “wing” on the wright monument is important.
In fact, the line “look north at the wing” is the reason I do not believe the casque is buried directly under the bench on the Hariot trail.  That is such a small area to explore it seems to me.  If it were under the bench, wouldn’t it be unlikely the author would feel it necessary to give this as an additional instruction whether we could see the wing from there or not?

The document is not in its former location. I found it at webarchive.org and simply reposted it at my own site, for us to use. The link is in my previous message.
On a tangent… why “mica”? Sure, it might be a component of sand in some parts of the world, but is that really the first thing that leaps to mind when one is near a beach? Heck no! My current theory is that there was some sort of marker or plaque, similar to the ones talking about “Shell, limestone, silver, salt” in the Fountain of Youth Park. Maybe it was even mentioned in the 2-post sign? Can we ever know?

This was my first confirmation the casque is on Roanoke Island.  Notice the road network in the map and how similar it is to the shape of the fairy.  Some might think it a stretch, but I’m sticking with it.  I began looking at the fairies this way when I noticed the fairy tendrils in the fort sumter pic also look like a distinct piece of the coastline there.  Some believe they have found the right location to dig there and it sounds incredibly convincing, but I don’t think they’ve found a rendered confirmation like you are looking for, Kato, in that pic either.  I am also looking for this unmistakable sign and want it to be something obvious like the red skirt or the pillar.  Things that still haunt me:  the cross, the four leaf clover and the “S” on the suit of armor, the bubbles, the part of the wall that looks like a drawing of a mountain, and in the verse, the map (why is it mentioned
before
the marker?), the circle and square and the mica (thanks for bringing that up, forest blight).  Still researching and having great fun with this!  BTW, Kato, are you in that neck of the dark forest?  From your description it doesn’t sound like it is very deciduous.

I have read that the TH trail “rolls through a maritime forest and emphasizes the natural riches found on the island that the English hoped to exploit for riches rather than adapt for survival.”  Wasn’t mica one of those important riches?
Forest Blight, can you supply any more photos of the signs along the trail and/or their text?  It might help get me thinking.

These are all great ideas everyone, and I think we are getting close in terms of the verse.  You can confidently follow the verse from its origin (The Wright Memorial) to Roanoke Island, to Ft. Raleigh National Historic site, to a “path that beckons” which may be the Hariot Trail itself, or the path from the Hariot Trail to Albermarle Sound.  The problem I am having is trying to reconcile Image 3 to fit these ideas in order to find the specific casque location.  The Chicago and Cleveland Images had specific landmarks or markers in their renderings that led to the casque sites.  Not so in Image 3.  I know Image 3 matches with verse 11 because of the map of Roanoke Island, the longitude and latitude, and the Elizabethian (English) theme.  But I cannot find specific markers or landmarks (so far) in Image 3 that verifies the location or area where the verse seems to lead.  There are a lot of trees out there , but little else.

My photographs of Roanoke can be found here:
http://travel.webshots.com/album/550878737WxeMst

Ferrymaiden:  Not From North Carolnia, but I have vacationed on the Outer Banks every summer for the past 12 years. I have been to Ft. Raleigh numerous times year after year in search of this elusive casque.  I have asked locals and National Park Service employees questions, have paid attention in great detail to the general area while looking for landmarks or markers,( from Image 3) and have followed the route from the Wright Memorial to the national Historic Site dozens of times in search of clues.  I have tested all my theories and have probed in places inside Ft. Raleigh where I concluded the casque might be.  No luck so far, but I intend to keep on trying.

This last weekend we had stopped into fort raleigh and the elizabeth gardens on our way to hatteras.
Forest blights pictures/observations are excellent and complete.  I don’t have much to add, other than a few thoughts or ideas.
“after circle and square”— if you look at the map of fort raleigh–could it just be the parking areas??–they are sort-of circle and square.   which then you would look for Nodon’s 1896 marker(in july and august) that forest blight had photographed next to the path that eventually leads to the beach and bench area.(mica and driftwood)
like forest blight had said– things have changed a bit.  those sawn off posts(what they were used for) at the bench/beach overlook area could be the missing key to clarify things.
I like the idea of being buried under the bench.– but again, like someone had said,- was the bench always right there in that spot?
and we had checked out the elizabeth garden gate area.(by the beach)  It seems that there is a solid cement foundation all around that gate area about 3-4 inches down.– unless it is cemented over- it isn’t under the gate.
sixer

Unknown

Unknown:
In fact, this large monument is visible for miles and miles–as the only thing ‘standing’ on the beach. Could this be the “first seen standing” thing?

I strongly believe the monument is the “wing” we are supposed to look north (from Roanoke) and see. It is visible from Roanoke – I’ve seen it.
And I can verify that the monument has been there for a long time. My 4th-grade class took a field trip there in 1984.

regulus

I have your answer FB, well
actually nodon has it,
you asked if the Thomas Harriot trail was numbered, well it still is, check this out
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/s … cret/9.jpg
This would explain the AFTER CIRCLE AND SQUARE meaning 14,
BOOM! nailed it.

i’m gonna rephrase the verse just for a sec…
there is a place,
with two maps
after circle and square
(this would be the place with the bench and posts and sign and view.)
ok so we’re here now,  where to now?
In July and August
A path beckons (there is a path).
To mica and driftwood (to the beach)
Under that (dig under that)
Which may be last touched (which “MAY” be last touched by the sunrise)
Or first seen standing (???)
Look north at the wing (look north at the Wright Brothers Memorial)
And dig (and get that casque!)
so when it is phrased this way that means that we have to go somewhere from the bench/sign area.  This is not the end yet.
thoughts?  we’re pretty close to this one. i don’t think that the marker is gone yet.
-regulus

I remembered incorrectly that Octave not Octavius was the Wright Brothers friend.  If it was Octavius, it wouldve helped my case.
I wonder how this might compare with other verses.  Hard = Harding, Glass = Glassel, and now Wood = Woodward might all apply as well.

thanks guys

I hear Hot Tubs are very therapeutic… so are Margaritas…. ahem… so I hear…
Hope you feel better soon.

Then you definitely can’t go wrong with a hot tub full of margaritas
wheeeeeeeeee