Unknown

Unknown:
If I have nothing to contribute, then I do not bring it up. I’ve never claimed that anything works.

Thank you MrSeabass. I was a little low on irony today.

MrSeabass

if all we see are the fruitless crazy ramblings of someone so obviously missing the forest through the trees.

This then must be the proper way to do an ad hominem attack, Thanks, I will make a note.

Unknown

Unknown:
Orville and Wilbur Wright were good
friends of
aviation pioneer
Octave
Chanute, and they first flew in December.  Thus, I read the first two lines as a reference to the Wright Brothers.

wilhouse, i had forgotten spacecraft9 started us out with this find.  (My buddy Leftbrained just now pointed this connection out to me.)  I am really liking the links to Roanoke, and am posting some close-ups of Image 3 in that thread to confirm.
I’m just not certain whether to *start* at Kitty Hawk and go to Fort Raleigh or *end* at the Wright Memorial.
Any indication from the two (count ’em, two!) solved verses whether they proceed in a linear fashion from a general location in the associated image?  Or is the image more of a collage of various clues along the way?

After further investigation, it seems that the name Baum is popular in that area of the state.  The entire ferry system was created by a man named Baum!  Additionally, the bridge between the Outer Banks and Roanoke Island is named the Washington Baum Bridge.
Now, if instead of ending at Kitty Hawk or the Wright Memorial (where it might be illegal to dig), perhaps we start there.  “Ride” the Baum Bridge over to Roanoke Island, where the entrance to the Elizabethan Gardens has a plaque with a quotation about a “dark forest”.  The Gardens also has both a square and a circle.  (Of course, it is probably just as frowned upon to dig here too.)
Oh, and the history of Roanoke was made into a play called “The Lost Colony”, written by P. Green.  Related to the mystery of Roanoke is a myth about a White Doe.  If the myth was incorporated into the drama, could you say that “white is in color” (green)?
Food for thought, that’s all.

Don’t know if this means anything, but looking around for data on Roanoke Island, I found this:
http://www.wvculture.org/history/agrext/roanoke.html
There was a man named Octavius Pickering who assigned his land rights to men named Camden and Bailey (friends of Octave).
Perhaps there’s something named after these people in the area.
wilhouse

Has anyone taken a mosey down the Freedmen’s Colony trail and taken pics?  I understand it’s entrance is marked near the entrance to the Elizabethan Gardens and I’ve read that there is park at the end.  The First Light marker wasn’t dedicated until 2001, but I’m wondering if there are any other statues, maps or references that might fit with our verse.
Also wondering how many maps there are in the visitor’s center and if any are numbered…thinking of the circle and square possibly meaning one and four or fourteen.

Apologies if this has been discussed before, but has anyone looked into Coronado Island outside San Diego as a possibility? There are a ton of L Frank Baum connections there and several possible parks.

go ahead and try, but i’m stickin’ to Roanoke for now, everything points to it, the whole P, and the whole V.
Washington Baum Bridge, Baum, the dude who wrote Oz.
yeah.

Unknown

Unknown:
And since when is there driftwood in Utah??

I have to review the Roanoke Island stuff, but I’m with you–I don’t believe this fits SLC at ALL.
The two brothers of eight children? These are BROTHERS–not “Friends” (of Octave.)  The ‘man of oz’ is not the Lion–he wasn’t even a MAN. Especially when there are a lot of other MEN from OZ you can use! (He was only a man in the movie because it’s really hard to find a talking lion.)
The “land near the window” isn’t a sidewalk near the window–it would be silly to call it that. Really.
After circle and square–is probably referring to XXX circle and XXX square–as in Lafayette Square and Johns Circle…STREET or PLACE names. Not the latitude and longitude squares and the circular maps. Again—that is really reaching.
This is probably the only thing I could say is true! There
is
driftwood in Utah. I’ve seen it.  But so what? There’s driftwood everywhere.  Remember, the American Southwest used to be a great inland sea. There is not only driftwood, but shells, fossils, sea sand, and lots of other ‘sea’ items in the deserts. But Salt Lake City andTemple Square are not deserts.
I really think this whole idea is waaaay off track.

I went back over the ideas first proposed for this V and it convinces me even more that the SLC idea is very very VERY far off.  The “dauntless/unconquerable” and the “dark forest” and the “friends of octave” all point directly at the Wright Brothers. The “land near the window” might be Roanoke Island, but it also might be something else–
but I cannot believe it ISN’T part of Image 3, which is the only image with a clear window besides Image 11,
and which has many possibilities for “lands near” said window in all the oddly shaped cracks in the masonry. I spent a lot of time trying to find similiarities between the lat/longs I found in that image and lands they represented. (Incidentally, those numbers I found are:  41, 86, 48, 116, 95, 45, 91, 75, 74, 79 and 55.)
The ‘man of oz’ could indeed mean Baum, but think about this as well: if this v is connected to I3, then the biggest clue may be right in front of our eyes: The
Tin
Man
—
the suit of armor
. Additionally, the arms on that armor are attached to the body by STRUTS–same thing that prop up airplane wings.  His arms are extended like WINGS–as if he was flying.  AND, the garnet, the jewel for that image is from ENGLAND. The chart in the book says that North Carolina is where those fair folk migrated to.
As for the “last seen or first touched” thing, here’s another interpretation, which, as far as I can tell, wasn’t considered before: AN AIR STRIP. Last seen, when you look out the airplane window–your last glimpse of the ground you just left–and first touched, when you land. There is a 3000 foot “First Flight” airstrip at the WB memorial.
Circle and square…are both drafting tools. The airplane the Brothers flew made the first complete circle ever made by a flying maching in the same area. (That was not the first flight–it was later on.) And the first airplane that flew was white–had white fabric wings… “where white is in color.” (I don’t think the v refers to White’s watercolors.)
As for mica and driftwood, that pretty much sums up the geography at the area–and for most of the upper eastern United States. Mica is prevalent in the Carolinas, northward to New England, and throughout the Great Lakes plains areas, and westward to the Ohio River valley, where the Hopewell indian tribes used it to make ornaments. In fact, in the entire USA, the biggest and ONLY mica production is done in this area.
There is NO mica found in the west.
Mica was and is used as a substitute for glass–to make greenhouse windows–“under mica and driftwood” might refer to a greenhouse, or other glass-roofed structure–tent, gazebo, etc.
Too many connections not to be this area…just too many.

Pretty sure they were located where I saw them — the Thomas Hariot Nature Trail (from which one may “Look north at the wing / and dig…”

which also has a square parking lot next to a traffic circle

Elcid

What’s the chance of Hurricane Florence flooding causing the casque to be unearthed (perhaps during cleanup)?

already travelled there…it was at the tree on the raised bit on the right hand side of the beach at the end of the rightmost path at the end of dare avenue leading to the beach.
and you are 1000% correct…its gone. despite the fact trees are shown intact on googlemaps, when i went there in late february of this year every single tree less that one stripped tree in the middle of the middle of the beach were overturned. it would have been on the west side of that tree, but the root structure was as wide and expansive as the canopy, so it def unearthed it and it was washed away in the sea. |
i did the whole thing and can explain whole solution.
i made some videos but the camerwork is terrible lol

theres a picture here on the forum somewhere might be under anus905 if it wasnt deleted by mark perry.

a little off topic
i have an e machine, its made by gateway
the athlon processors is a great processor
check this link for refurbished, ive been using mine for 2yr,
has win win home vista premium installed on it, 3.4 gig. something
processor 2 gig ram, bocoo programs installed.
happy with my machine
link to similar
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications … S445-10038

First of all… hello to everyone from a Secret newbie!  I’ve been lurking on the boards for a couple months now, trying to decipher the clues in the hopes of contributing.
After sharing some theories with Catherwood via AIM a few weeks back, I decided to take a trip down to NC for the weekend.  I found nothing new to confirm P3, (I’ve always thought the “land by the window” is referring to the outline of Roanoke island by the window in P3).  However, I did find some definite confirmations of the verse.  Including at least 1 new one.
I didn’t bring back a casque, but I think I know where to find one.  I have to rush to work now.  More details and pictures to come…
-Travis

that’s great!  will look forward to the pics and insights
one other link to P3 I forgot to mention is the horse’s head on the armor possibly pointing to Nags Head, NC (between WBNM and Roanoke)

great to see all the new participants after Egbert’s press. . . I noticed an earlier post to this page is now missing, so to fill in a few blanks and in the spirit of collaboration (which I really think is the only way we’ll solve these) I offer this review of earlier posts plus a few new thoughts linking V11 (and possibly also P3) to Roanoke Island:
Pass two friends of octave In December
A reference to the Wright Brothers National Memorial, Kill Devil Hills, NC.  The Wrights were friends of aviation pioneer Octave Chanute and they first flew on December 17th.
Ride the man of oz
Possibly a reference to Washington Baum bridge (L. Frank Baum wrote The Wizard of Oz) which connects to Roanoke Island.  Possibly also a reference to a ferry to Roanoke Island  (the Thomas A. Baum Ferry was built in 1995, but there could have have been an earlier ferry bearing his name?  The NC Ferry web site says “In 1947, the commission purchased the ferry operation of T.A. Baum, who operated a route that ran across Croatan Sound and linked Manns Harbor and Roanoke Island. This became the first route of the N.C. Ferry System.”
To the land near the window
maybe something –sylvania (as in a window sill)?
There’s a road that leads to Dark forest
the official Elizabethan Gardens’ web page (
http://www.elizabethangardens.org
) says:
A large bronze plaque embedded in the entrance wall bears this inscription by Inglis Fletcher, a noted author:
“Down the centuries, English women have built gardens, to the glory of God, the beauty of the countryside and the comfort of their souls. The women of The Garden Club of North Carolina, Inc. have planted this garden in memory of the valiant men and women who founded the first English colony in America. From this hallowed ground on Roanoke Island, they walked away through the
dark forest
and into history. 1985-1951”
Where white is in color
John White was governor of the 1587 Roanoke colony, and grandfather of Virginia Dare, but more famous for his watercolor paintings.
With two maps
After circle and square
Possibly a reference to the sunken garden –
http://www.outerbanks.com/elizabethangardens/map.htm
In July and August A path beckons
From the Outer Banks’ Elizabethan Gardens’ web page (
http://www.outerbanks.com/elizabethangardens/
):
Meandering paths will beckon you to
the woodland and wildlife garden, alive
with beautifully colored Monarch
butterflies, or to the 16th century gazebo
with a fantastic view of Roanoke Sound
where you may gaze out across the waters
which brought the first English colonists to
this spot over 400 years ago.
(different flowers bloom in different months, not sure what lines the path to the gazebo)
To mica and driftwood
mica is common in NC, this page shows some nice driftwood:
http://www.angelfire.com/nc/dewsers/eg2.html
Under that Which may be last touched Or first seen standing
my only thought is that the first part of the word gazebo is gaze (first seen?)
Look north at the wing
looking from the gazebo north would be Colington Island, which has the distinct shape of a birds wing
http://maps.yahoo.com/maps_result?ed=M7 … country=us
another web page (
http://colingtonharbour.org/the_history … arbour.htm
) says “From the air, Colington Island resembles a verdant butterfly with a tattered right wing, resting on shoals inside the barrier islands,” but the bird-wing resemblence seems more striking to me.  Also possibly relevant – Wright Brothers Monument, Kitty Hawk, Buzzards Bay, Eagleton and roads named Eagle, Sandpiper, Sea Gull, Swan, and Raptor on Colington Island all due north of Elizabethan Gardens)
And dig To achieve
By dauntless and inconquerable
Determination Your goal
the Wright Brothers Monument inscription includes ACHIEVED BY DAUNTLESS RESOLUTION AND UNCONQUERABLE FAITH
my guess that this goes with P3 is based on it being one of only a few not confirmed to go with other verses, the English theme and knight’s armor relating to the first settlement of Roanoke and Fort Raleigh, the map of Roanoke Island in the wall, and the things that could be red flower petals relating to the gardens.
Now, is anybody in the group from NC??

MERLIN

Knowing our luck – it will probably create a sink hole and suck it down 80ft. further.

Now that’s funny right there.

it’s been awhile since i looked at all the pictures of the elizabethan gardens, but i remember thinking that the only thing that kind of looked like that girdle in the image was queen elizabeth’s skirt…….and she was called the virgin queen………..last touched?
or first seen standing……..she’s standing  ;D
http://www.flickr.com/photos/justinkauk/3787870728/
but then i liked the theater too, because it has wings, and it’s right by the beach…last touched
and first seen standing ( you have to walk in)
definintion wing:Theater.
a. the platform or space on the right or left of the stage proper.
and that whole suit of armor (in the image) reminds me of that chief wingina….(sorry, been a long time, something like that), and that line having the word “wing” and the chief’s name being “wingina (whatever),
and i like that bench that someone had posted, because it reminds me of the old riddle about what do you have when you sit down but lose when you stand up……. (your lap)
i guess just ’cause it’s a riddle too……..
guess between us and your own ideas, you’re gonna need to be there the whole eight days…………
and the gate..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/hikerpark/2846411437/
or is it a riddle about your feet?  last touched (putting on your shoes) but first seen standing?

I think if I’m given the opportunity to know the answer to
only one question
after I die, it will be what “may be last touched or first seen standing.”

Elljayo:  Please see my post of
February 12, 2006 in the Image 3 thread
.  I clearly and specifically mention Pear Pad Road, and its possible link to the image near the spoon because it looks like a pear pad cactus to me. A pear pad is a cactus, and the one in Image three looks to me like a pear pad shorn of thorns.  I made this observation in 2006 when I visited the site, as well as the cemetery.

Thanks Kato,
I didn’t see your post.
What do you see at the end of the road? this road ends in a circle road (cul-de-sac)… It’s possible to see the WB monument from this circle? (i like this spot… look like the pea) What is that object on the shore like a spoon? stones? wood?
Where is the cemetery located?
Do you have any pics?

Eljayo: Yes the road does end in a cul-de sac.  To the right is the cemetery, which is very old and seems to contain the remains of just two families.  Past the cemetery is the beach, but it is inaccessable from this location.  The reason is that the cemetery and environs are on a bluff, which rises about 25 feet above the beach, and is tangled with brush and large rocks which were placed there to curtail erosion. You cannot get onto the beach safely from the bluff.  From the bluff you can look down the beach all the way to Waterside Theatre.  There is lots of driftwood at this end of the beach, and you can see the “Wing” very clearly from this location as there are no obstructions at all.  I also think that the cross in Image 3 has to do either with the ships mast used at the Waterside theatre, or as you postulate, the cemetary at the end of Pear Pad road.    Sorry, no pictures.  The road is a paved surface, and is about 300 feet from the beach.

kato, i’m not sure why you say the gardens are forbidden?  , no scratch that, i know why you say it, but i don’t know why you think BP would think it.  the cleveland and chicago ones were in the same kind of parks……i believe.  he didn’t ask for permission, he was sneaky.  and maybe in 1982, the place wasn’t so busy.
i’m not sure about markers in the image, every image and solve might be different, but, to me, the verse is clear in getting to the gardens and lost colony.  of course, i’m not there and don’t know the area like you do.
i’m glad you get to spend time there, i think that’s the only way these are ever gonna get solved, by  someone who knows the area.

eljayo  i like the grave stone ideas, will look at that area too.
i mentioned this to a friend, asked what could it mean..
first seen standing, may be last touched
his reply was stairs or rail on the stairs, he is a carpenter
i did not mention ….under that….just to see what answer
i would get
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/289951 … 4452LrINli
from the same album from above link, i dont remeber seeing this
http://community.webshots.com/photo/ful … 4452GWkFrT
the album for the above links, from one of kyvannguyen albums
http://travel.webshots.com/album/573844551GsIIRR
kyvannguyen albums, i did not look to see if kyvannguyen, has albums
for other places we are looking, kyvannguyen has 10pgs of albums
http://community.webshots.com/user/kyvannguyen?start=0

Slappy:  I vacation on the Outerbanks every August, so I have had plenty of free time to search for the casque.  I have probed on both sides of the gate: BUT not very extensively from the inside, which is of course private property and completely forbidden.  Thats why I think BP used the Elizabethan Gardens for clues in the verse (“dark forrest”) but did not bury the casque inside the Gardens themselves.  Outside of the Gate is another matter.  I have probed in front of the Gate, and to each of its sides, but without any real sense of how close or how far away from the Gate the casque might be located.  The beach is usually deserted though,so one could probe extensively without being bothered.
One other observation I would like to make:  As the verse 11 takes you from the Wright Brothers Memorial to the Baum Bridge, (a distance of approximately five miles) I would expect to detect or locate markers from Image 3 along the way. The markers would reenforce the idea that you are following the correct pathway.  Likewise, when you cross over the Bridge to “the land near the window,” I would also expect to find markers from the Image somewhere in the five mile distance from the Bridge to the “road that leads to dark forrest,” which I presume to be the entrance to the National Historic Park.
But: I have driven this route countless times looking for these markers and have never located any. Logically, the markers should be spaced out along the way as you follow the verse.  All the markers in Image 3
cannot
be inside the National Historic Site.

im trying to find things, on the armor man, that match the garden
the key on the right of pic, seems to be a KEY, cause of the unusal top
of it, why 2 loops, see the red arrow
E gate in 2008
http://family.webshots.com/photo/258255 … 5447bYGAtk
trees are smaller in 2003,and 2002
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/pho … 0444MQjqpS
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/pho … 0510SaKOKM
closed
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/116066 … 6789mShmBp
good veiw of the crest, the right and left side scroll thing,
sorta looks like the armor mans, bands on his arms
http://community.webshots.com/photo/ful … 5088YGOUZA
nice view of sea gate
http://community.webshots.com/photo/ful … 3953CFcTzn
kinda looks like the face mask, only on the mask the circle of dots,
and the 4 points are seperated on the mask/face shield
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/268617 … 1022WLHnfy
pots, i think they are in the garden, not out side of the gate,
kinda looks like the pot armor man is in, at least it is the closest ive seen
http://community.webshots.com/photo/ful … 0573QbcScD
http://family.webshots.com/photo/104346 … 9578zTfHRx
ways to get in garden when closed [ may have been an easy task in 81 ]
foot holds in walls.low walls, chain link fence
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/pho … 2423koWWVQ
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/1370 … 0573MdBUdt
if you get caught just call slappybuns at 1-800-NOT-HOME

those pots are the closest i’ve seen also ,cw!
obviously we think of “key” and “gate” but also it could be “admission.”……….maybe it’s where you pay to get in?
and a synonym for key  is “chief”
, i still like my chief wingina
i wonder if the 2 keys just mean “cay” (a small low island, key)  for roanoke island……………and since it’s pronounced either “k” and “key” that could be the reason for the “krazy Kampus…” words in the fair folks

Given a rough understanding of the general area around the Wright monument and the Roanoke Island, the notion of taking the oine “December” to mean “State Highway Route 12” seems very possible.  December could mean lots of things, but hwy 12 is the main road that ties most of the Outer Banks together.  Looking for a fit in verse seems natural.
This is just a tactic.  Applying and repeating the tactic to the line “July and August” doesnt fit the area being there isn’t an obvious choice of road 7, 8, 7+8=15, or 78, or something less obvious and even less likely.  Instead I suggest a new tactic, more obvious and slightly tricky, July and August are months named after Roman Emperors.  Is there a Ceasarian relationship to this area or a Romanesque name somewhere?  Maybe a Roman Numeralish idea: July = 7 = VII and August = 8 = VIII…or 15 = XV or 78 = LXXVIII…Aand on to even less likely variations.
Could be the two lines give a contrast between Winter and Summer.  Why supply us with a seasonal difference?  Is there a specific relationship to tourism or Ferry Routes?
The use of the word ‘ride’ in the man of oz line seems less likely the bridge and more a Ferry, since you don’t “ride” a bridge.  One would ride a “beast of burden”, and a bridge does bear much weight…either bridge or ferry might work.  It might be an off reference to. Slavery as well.  The Wizard of Oz did deal with the subject of enslavement.  Perhaps a look into Civil War history might prove fruitful.  Fort Raleigh then applies.  Roanoke and the Other Banks were major points of contention for Union and Confeflderate forces.

erexere

This is just a tactic.  Applying and repeating the tactic to the line “July and August” doesnt fit the area being there isn’t an obvious choice of road 7, 8, 7+8=15, or 78, or something less obvious and even less likely.  Instead I suggest a new tactic, more obvious and slightly tricky, July and August are months named after Roman Emperors.  Is there a Ceasarian relationship to this area or a Romanesque name somewhere?  Maybe a Roman Numeralish idea: July = 7 = VII and August = 8 = VIII…or 15 = XV or 78 = LXXVIII…Aand on to even less likely variations.

This would make sense if the line were not a quote from the Virginia Dare monument that the preceding lines just lead to (hwy 12 is Virginia Dare Trail).
Perhaps the juxtaposition of the way we interpret the months (i.e., December is a highway; July and August are a quote on a marker) is what is meant to be “slightly tricky.” Notice how they both come together to mean Virginia Dare, however.

I see your reasoning.  I think Virginia Dare is one of the widest and most popular associations with the area next to the Wright Brothers.  The monuments themselves might be used as merely popular references.  They might not be useful as markers for close proximity to the casque.

erexere

I see your reasoning.  I think Virginia Dare is one of the widest and most popular associations with the area next to the Wright Brothers.  The monuments themselves might be used as merely popular references.  They might not be useful as markers for close proximity to the casque.

I agree… but with a comparative line like, “Seek the sounds / Of rumble / Brush and music,” it must be nearby. Frankly, this is why I cannot accept Rodanthe/Pea Island.

I jumped to a conclusion.  Rodanthe is far away.  Until we recognize a good reasoning for going so far from the confirmed markers, Roanoke itself seems like a best bet.
My frank opinion is that Roanoke and Pea Island are both “lands near the window”. They are both represented by picture clues near the central window background of Image 3.
My instincts about the memorial inscriptions being worked into verse as multipurpose clues.  First purpose is to orient our attention to these popular structures like the Terminal Tower or the M and B set in stone.  The second purpose is working it into a theme of sorts.  We shouldn’t force our thinking into a limited view like where it says “look north at the wing”, and we already recognize the Wright Memorial as THE wing because the “friends of an Octave” and “dauntless and inconquerable”, but as a theme it might be that a perfectly obvious object like a certain telephone pole has a horizontal timber across a vertical pole, which makes it look like it has two arms and thus wings.
I’ve recently come to think the image looks like an antique telephone.
Look at this, although it’s stylized, it still has some typical components and design of the antique phone with a single post connected to a yoke and then the handset across the top:
etymology of telephone: tele-(far) + phone (sound).

at this link is a pic of a Hans Schultes counters, or jettons,the symbols on
the reverse,look like the ones on the armor,close to bottom of pg
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_bo … /hh16h.htm
from the same article a 1960 map
http://www.cr.nps.gov/history/online_bo … hh16g1.jpg

do we think BP,knew for sure he was on NHS land,if he did this narrows the
size of the acreage,that he buried the casque, to only 335 acres,instead of
838.24,i think from reading this pdf,it would have been much easier,to bury
the casque,back in 81-82,in fact you prob could today without much prob,from
what ive read,below is where i got the acreage figure,a very informative read
there is a current map of area,with markers marked,in the pdf
help with measuring the area,there is a survey,tab with a drag box,drag the corners
the Egarden and fort pk
http://www.historicaerials.com/aerials. … &year=2002
1961: Public Law 87-147
Public Law 87-147, issued on
August 17, 1961, authorized the
NPS to acquire additional lands
(approximately 125 acres) to be
administered as part of Fort Raleigh
NHS. In doing so, the law further
defined the purpose of the site: “to
preserve, as part of the Fort Raleigh
NHS, lands historically associated
with the attempt to establish an
English colony on Roanoke Island…”
1990: Public Law 101-603, 104 Stat.
3065
Additionally, this law authorized the
expansion of the land area of Fort
Raleigh NHS by approximately 335
acres to a total authorized acreage of
512.93 acres. This new authorized
boundary defines the area from which
the NPS may purchase lands from
willing owners if funds are available.
As of 2008, the NPS had purchased
approximately 202 additional acres
beyond the site’s 1960s-era boundary;
the remainder of the authorized
acreage is owned by the State of
North Carolina (18.09 acres) and
by private owners (129.39 acres).
The state property, managed by
——————-
Archeological Resources
Protection Act (ARPA)
Protection of archeological resources
is a concern for the park’s known and
yet-to-be known cultural resources.
Relic hunting has been witnessed
in the park, which distracts from
the archeological record. This illicit
activity detracts from the park’s ability
to perform its legislated mandate of
conducting “research on the history
and archeology of the historic site and
the associated peoples and events.”
24-Hour Park
The superintendent’s compendium
currently allows for Fort Raleigh NHS
to be accessible on a 24-hour basis,
which invites violations of federal
and local laws. It is recommended
conducted by the Roanoke Island
Historical Association
the North Carolina Department
of Transportation, borders the US
64/264 highway corridor at Weir Point.
Much of the privately owned acreage
has been or is being developed into
housing subdivisions (Heritage Point,
Croatan Woods, etc.).
Copies of the Secretarial Order and
Public Laws are provided in Appendix B.
http://www.nps.gov/hfc/pdf/ip/2010-05-1 … cument.pdf

WhiteRabbit

More sign brainstorming…
Determination
Your goal
This isn’t from the Kitty Hawk quote. Does it have a message…? Maybe the goal is “Determination”, or:
Determine nation
Your goal
…in this case, the “nation” is England.
Ride the man of oz
The man of oz is Baum, meaning “tree”. How do you ride a tree…? In a dugout.
************************************************
As shecrab recently said, these verses aren’t necessarily in a logical order. The verse and the image will probably contain clues for the general area, and clues for a very specific spot, but it’s not easy to tell which is which. The line which most accurately pinpoints the location might be some cryptic hint in the middle of the verse, or even at the beginning.
The Hariot Trail seems to hold a lot of possible clues; almost too many. It seems to me there are various lines which could be interpreted as a cryptic hint for this or that sign. The question then is, is it practical to dig there, is there any obvious reference point like a wall or fence or pole. Is there a “site confirmer”, a picture of something specific close to the dig spot (which might possibly be disguised or hard to identify), and does the location seem to fit the instructions in the verse in a general way.
At the moment, the “overlook” is the only point where most of us have seen an overview. Can you see the “wing” from near any of the other signs…? I don’t think that should be regarded as absolutely essential, but it’s definitely a strong indicator. Alternatively, can you see something like a telegraph pole, even in the distance…? The cross shape and hanging wires seem to be a dominant idea in the image.
In terms of “site confirmers” in the verse, hints for a specific place given in the verse, I quite like the “window” idea and panes of glass…if any of these signs have panes of glass…? That’s something that appears in both the verse and the image.
(Thanks for your help and patience! It’s much appreciated.)

Thanks for all the help and advise. I feel very good today becasue I met the right person to gain access to the achives here in the park. My goal is to look at anything I can that might show how the park looked in 1981/2. I know that there is a lot of interest in the old sign that might have been at the overlook. I will dig into that and anything else that might help. Also, I met a team of treasue hunters today! Great fun to have talked with them and share ideas. Thanks for the book!!!!! Stay tuned for more help. Also, please let me know if there are any other things I should be looking for in the achives. Best regards to all!

Im convinced this has nothing to do with Oz.  The “oz” is meant to mean “one” although it is presented as “ounce”.  The idea to use oz is very clever.  Ive been really enthusiastic about perceiving image 3 as an elaborate jousting dummy.  It serves as a hint about Don Quixote and his horse Rocinante.

This part still gets me…just like everyone else but……
“Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing”
Is there ONE thing that is either touched last or standing up……such as a tree or something that can be touched or stands?  (OR)  does the “standing” refer not to the object to be touched but to you the hunter who is standing?  Now that we are standing, we can now see that which may be touched.
Wow, that really doesnt make much sense does it?

Paul – welcome back. My favorite spot for GPR would be between those mysterious wooden posts at the ocean-front overlook on the Hariot trail.

Hi everyone,
You might remember me from my posts last year around this time. I am a volunteer working for the National Park Servcie here at Fort Raleigh National Hisotric Site. Last year I tried to be your eyes on the gorun here. So, now that I am back I would like to continue the hunt. I am a little behind on the lates news and ideas so I will get busy doing the reading. However, if there is any news I should now right away please send me a message.
I might have access to ground penetrating radar equipment this year. If you have a suggested “X” within the National Park I will see if I can survey some of them. I have my own ideas and will survey them if I can get my hands on th equipment.
Please feel free to comtact me with your thoughts.
Best regards, Paul

With two maps
Simple meaning, something with two maps.
or
“with two” might be meant in terms of having an alternative, i.e. one or the other, so “with two choices”.  The word “whether” can be substituted as to mean “with alternatives”.  Whether is an easy homonym for “weather”, so in convoluted terms, “with two maps” could mean “weather maps”.
Is there a weather monitoring facility to be included in this casque search?
Found this just now,
http://www.nps.gov/caha/historyculture/ … bureau.htm
It mentions several weather stations.  One I like in particular is/was at Wash Woods.  I hypothesized awhile ago about the lines about White and in Color having to do with “clothes washing”, I know it sounded silly at the time, especially considering the entrenched local history of John White, but it’s still good logic to consider ANYTHING in general as fair game when it comes to these riddled lines.  Clothes washing is an every day task, or weekly in my case, and it is customary to sort your items into lights and darks with respect to colors.
The line about through “Dark Forest” might be linked to this thought process, since “darks” are colors in washing terms.  Forest = woods.  Wash Woods seems at least possible in this sense.  Back to my research…
Interesting find, check out this link
Manteo Weather Tower
.  The flag colors from this tower are either white or colored.  White means fair weather, color and shape, triangles, squares, could indicate rain or storms.  I don’t see a “circle in square” flag among the choices.  It’s usually a combination of triangles or squares with black squares in the center for different storm indicators.

Unknown

Unknown:
“a large bluish-green object, flat as a buckwheat cake, and rolling along on its edge like a cartwheel.”

This find deserves its own post and will translate as a wildly different idea relating to
Ride the man of oz
.  Although this is just a character in a story and not an actual man, and is described more as a villainous monster and object, here is the description from a quote citation:
Here’s the cover of the book featuring the mass produced Scalywagons,
o
Note the way in which the O’s are drawn, looking very similar to the O/I’s on the armor in image 3 with one larger one smaller, minus the Z in the large one.
The name of this villain is Bell-snickle, of no relation to the Christmas folklore, Belsnickel.
What grabs my attention here the most is the noteworthy account connected to Rodanthe history.  Rodanthe celebrates Old Christmas and also has a Belsnickle like character “Old Buck”.  The line “In December” certainly calls some attention to the possibility of Christmas relatedness.  “Dark Forest” calls attention to the German wood, Die Schwartzwald or “Black Forest”.  Belsnickel is of German origin.  Belzen/Pelzen+Nicholas.  Pelzen or pelt means a fur skin but alternatively means to wallop or drub, also to gallop, or run.  To ride the man of oz makes even more sense.

Hi all, first post. I found what I think is a new reference to “July and August.” This YouTube video shows a sign directly outside the Waterside Theater with “July and August” on it. This new information probably won’t help in finding the casque, but you never know.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1rED8Dl_xk

What a great find! Is that sign still there? Was it there in 1981?

I have no idea about the date, but here’s a screenshot of the youtube video. Thanks, Cleveland Steve.

forest_blight

What a great find!

Yep. Nice one.

It does not appear in photographs of the Gazebo right after its construction in April, 1981. It would have been placed there by design. There is lots of driftwood on that part of the beach, and it would have been a simple thing to lug that fine example up from the beach, which is mere yards away.
I will point out that the gazebo could itself be what is last touched and first seen standing, if you squint real hard. It was being built right about the same time BP was burying flower pots all over the country (1981), is certainly standing, and if you look at the word “gazebo” you’ll see that it is “first seen” (
gaze
= see?).

An alternative interpretation of
circle and square
.
If you examine the 1896 stone tablet at the head of the trail in Fort Raleigh, it reads: “On this site, in July-August, 1585 (O.S.), colonists, sent out from England by Sir Walter Raleigh, built a fort, called by them…”
Wait, back up. “O.S.”? What does that mean? Why not A.D. for
anno domini
? I found out that O.S. stands for “Old Style,” and was sometimes used to distinguish dates on the Julian calendar from those in the Gregorian calendar before the latter was universally adopted. But to BP, who might have been standing there wondering the same thing as he scribbled “use July-August in V11” in his notebook, “O.S.” could be riddled as “circle and square.”

Under that
I take this to be X marks the spot, yeah?  I wouldn’t think it’s the gazebo itself.  Going back to 81′ and BP’s notebook, the use of the word “or” is odd.  Odd first because it doesn’t belong there.  Second because maybe the two lines, if reversed would give it away.
First seen standing
now leave out the “or” and
it’s not standing anymore
.
May be last touched
after burying the “flower pot” and
on to the next locale never to return
!
Another idea way outside the box.  Could BP have put it on top of his casque, with or without permission?
It maybe just me, but if I lived down there, I’d be poking around the driftwood.  Hey, it’s been 25 years!

This V vexes me more than any other. Two new thoughts:
After circle and square
… We (or at least I) suspect that the Artist used shapes to represent numbers in Images 1 and 11 (number of sides). Why not, then, in the verse as well? “After circle and square” could mean “After 1 and 4” or “After 14.” Could that be meaningful? I wonder if the education stops along the Hariot trail were once numbered. There are several signs along the way explaining points of history or Native American culture.
In July and August
A path beckons
To mica and driftwood
Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing
Look north at the wing
And dig
In other words, if you’re standing at the casque site, you will see three things: (1) a path that goes to the beach, (2) the “wing,” which we take to be the Wright Brothers Memorial, and (3) “that which may be last touched and first seen standing.” Numbers 1 and 2 can be seen only from a limited number of spots in the area we’ve been considering. The most logical one is that lookout on the Hariot trail. It’s remote enough for BP to bury something uninterrupted, and it’s not in danger of immediate erosion. What could be “last touched or first seen standing” at that lookout? Well, this bench:
If you read V11 to mean “Under the object that, upon standing up, is the first thing made visible and the last thing you touch,” it’s the bench.
Thoughts?

http://travel.webshots.com/photo/280688 … 3633gIuNGM
From your  Webshots:
FB, How long has that “fallen tree” been lying next to the gazebo?  Driftwood?  I wonder if it was placed there by design.  Is it on the north side of gazebo and would you have to move it with dauntless and inconquerable determination to dig?
I’m just thinking that they would have made things like the gazebo out of mica and driftwood back in those days.

Thanx for the pix Trav.  I can see why the 2d to last pic would interest us but I think I must be missing what is found in the last.

Fox,
I believe it’s just another confirmer of the verse that I found on the path to where the casque may be…and one that no one had yet found  😉
“Where white is in color
With two maps”
There were plenty of references and paintings by John White in the vistitors center, but I didn’t understand the “with two maps” until I found that marker in pic 4.
As it stands, thanks to everyone’s great detective work on the verse, I think I can place match nearly every line in the verse to something at/on the way to Ft. Raleigh!
-Travis

I was thinking about that “Ride the man of oz” line this afternoon…most of the posts seem to agree that this is a reference to L. Frank Baum, who wrote “The Wizard of Oz”, but could it possibly be referring to the actual character of the Wizard instead? According to the internet, which is never wrong, he was a conman from Omaha, NE and his actual name was Oscar Zoroaster Phadrig Isaac Norman Henkle Emmannuel Ambroise Diggs.
Are there any “Diggs” or “Oscars” out there, or possibly even a “Wizard”, which could somehow be ridden to the land near the window?
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wizard_of_Oz_(character
)

Followup re Harpers Ferry Center:
They sent me a large mail tube last week marked “Fort Raleigh.” In it were three cellophane transparencies of material that had been on park displays in the 1980s. One was a life-size rendering of a White/DeBry woodcut of a Native American; another of a European (possibly Sir Walter Raleigh); and a third consisting of labels meant to overlay a large map of the Sound. None had any obvious links to our verse. Just wanted to let you know that this angle has been pursued to death.
I wanna know what was on that sign!!

…and any chance you can beg, borrow or steal a copy of the play…?? I’m dying to know if it sheds any light on “last touched” or “first seen standing”…

Don’t discount that there is also a prominent “circle and square” in the Eliz. gardens themselves. And a path that wanders into the woods right next to them. And see my rant in “Image 9” about the verses not being linear.

a topo of Fort Raleigh National Historic Site, im not sure which tower paul is talking about
http://tinyurl.com/7dc4n98

WR — I’ve read the play cover to cover, and nothing Secret-related leapt out at me.

As long as you are wandering around the area Paul, get together with as many staff members as you can and find out once and for all what the 2 posts once held.

I recommend against just waltzing in with a shovel and digging. The park is federal land; it and the beach immediately adjacent to it are under special protection as archaeological sites. Be prepared to pay a hefty fine (and maybe do some jail time) by digging without permission. Just sayin’.

Yeah you’re right. I wonder how Preiss buried some of the casques without being caught. He had to know we would have issues with digging on these private lands.

Does someone need to be bailed out of jail?

Ha. We should all donate a little money to a special account. That way if one of us gets into some trouble digging, we can have our fines paid for. That or pay off the one who catches us.

Deuce

Yeah you’re right. I wonder how Preiss buried some of the casques without being caught. He had to know we would have issues with digging on these private lands.

Preiss used disguises, he knew there was a risk. Maybe that’s why he buried in the winter when it wasn’t tourist season.

rookhunter

Preiss used disguises, he knew there was a risk. Maybe that’s why he buried in the winter when it wasn’t tourist season.

I always pictured him wearing a parrot on his shoulder and an eye patch digging in the middle of a a summer’s day.

erexere

… rather than cite facts of you’re own, or draw different conclusions from the facts I’ve shared, you convey only as much as to say “I am wrong” or “I am stupid”. I could say you’re also being brave, but in actuality you’re being a typical coward like a lot of people who troll on the internet. They aren’t brave enough to explain their position. They demonstrate disatisfaction at every turn and they distract for their own purposes rather than show the world they are worthy of any respect by making any sense or contribution of their own.

And I’ve been doing neither. I just have one question… Say I believe your theory… Why is it any better then the Elizabethan Gardens or Fort Raleigh or Nags Head? Or for that matter, why is Fort Raleigh or Nags Head or the Elizabethan Gardens any better than your theory?
Think about that for a while.
From my perspective, with the information you / you all have, all plausible theories are equally plausible. Why are they equally as plausible? Why couldn’t the casque have been in the Italian gardens in Cleveland? Why can’t the Milwaukee casque be in Oregon?
Why can’t 2 + 2 equal 22, despite the various evidence we have that it might be true?
There’s subjectivity, and there is plausibility, and there is evidence… and then there are facts. Did you ever find that Comey quote about puzzles?
Did Preiss make a completely subjective puzzle and expect us to figure it out?

E… while I think your ideas are absolutely ridiculous, I am more on board with “looking for a new way to solve these puzzles” than you think. I can truly appreciate the fact that you are bucking the “Cleveland – Chicago” paradigm. I think you may be one of only a handful that are.

I havent followed up on the Comey ref. I will get to it soon.
Yes,my theories are ridiculous.
I dont how he would avoid visual subjectivity aside from very plain symbolism. This stuff ranks higher in the range of complexity as it borrows from literary interpretation and it seems impossible for anyone to know whats what unless they have home court advantage.

not sure how long I can do this………

i’m back!  and I have a story!  I’ll tell it tomorrow, i gotta go to bed, it’s about midnight my time.
I didn’t find the casque, but I found the location where it was, or still is!

lol, i could strangle you regulus!!  my chances alone at the computer are few and fleeting nowadays! and to wake up to this cliffhanger! aaaarggghhh  i hate waiting!!
can’t wait to hear everything!

hope you have some serious pictures to confirm your idea. lets see some more exact matches like we did in cleveland and chicago. i cant wait to hear your story! looks like tossing and turning all night for me too. argh

regulus

i’m back!  and I have a story!  I’ll tell it tomorrow, i gotta go to bed, it’s about midnight my time.
I didn’t find the casque, but I found the location where it was, or still is!

He must have been really tired as it has been a week now.
I remember that regulus did this to us once before when he claimed to have found the Milwaukee casque and then later said he was only joking.  I’m detecting a pattern here, he promises something and then doesn’t deliver.  But even so I am still anxiously awaiting his story………whatever it turns out to be.

Probably means nothing but I came across this while perusing my new dictionary of symbols.  I’m sure there are more meanings to each but these are what has been mentioned numerous times thru out the first few pages of the book.
Circle & Square = Heaven & Earth….
What it means or if it ties in with the V, I do not know.  Is there a church nearby?

link to trip post
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/i … ic=971.210
and it makes for what ever not sure. would like to see more pics if you have them
thanks

NO!! no! i just meant some random person!  Not you Fox!!!  I look up to you and everyone here! you’re the ones who narrowed all the cities down! I’m just here to help finish the job!

Dropping a note here on a theory I’ve developed about a sign that references Dare, presumably in connection with John White’s grand daughter, and the Man of La Mancha song The Impossible Dream. The only reference I could find that helps date the sign as pre-existing is at
http://www.tripadvisor.com/ShowTopic-g6 … olina.html
I think it relates well to the First Flight, where the Wright Brothers in their dauntless courage reached for the skies and realized their dream for the impossible. I also think “Man of oz” relates in an odd way to “Man of La Mancha” in the sense that Don Quixote was so small in a sense. I spent a fine weekend on the coast reading an early printing of Don Quixote. It’s a fantastic book. I’m not discounting the relationship to Baum’s Wizard of Oz, but I think there’s ample room for discussion on how this all fits together, since nobody has a casque in hand to say otherwise.

erexere

the hot air balloon.

actually it was a hydrogen balloon

I assumed hot air since that’s the visual in my mind…maybe the latest James Franco version. I don’t recall reading the word “hydrogen” in the original printing of the Wizard of Oz.
The hot air balloon idea also involved something discussed by other members here about the Verse 5 “wingless bird ascending”. They were probably considering the hydrogen balloon and specific variants including the Zeppelin.
Thanks for you’re correction.

forest_blight

fox, I’ve been trying. No one seems to remember. The intern who placed trail markers throughout the trail in the 1970s (Ken Johns) has such a common name that I couldn’t track him down. I can’t find photos, either. I’d give my right ar… well, maybe a pinky toe to find out what was on that sign.

I found Ken, and am currently having exchanges with his friend, a ranger at the park until 2006. Will have news regarding the chopped-off posts today, I think!
Update (I’ll keep probing):
The lopped off posts are supports for the old trail bench, which was just a halved log placed horizontally between the posts. They probably date from the 1960s.
The present teak bench was a gift to the park from Colonial Dames or Colonial Daughters or some group like that. There was a little plaque on it, but the lettering may be worn away now. They also gave the bench at the beginning of the trail.
There was probably a trail marker at this spot earlier. There were little aluminum signs with screen printed text. The message was probably something similar to what is there now, but probably without the drawing. I think there is something shown of London Bridge with grisly heads on pikes. The earlier signs were more about the botany, present signs more about the ecology.
I can’t recall exactly when the present trail signs were installed. The signs themselves were fabricated by some place out west-Utah or something. Chief of Interpretation Bob Woody ordered them. They seem to hold up well.
http://www.whitedoeinn.com/innkeepers.htm
– I’ll work on contacting Bob (plumb?
) and see if he has additional insight too.

This is my current understanding… any body else’s differ?

I like the highway 12 idea. Could be a double meaning since the first flight was in December.

Posting for Fox, as he’s too busy being a TV star to post himself now  (lol).
“I really like the ‘Croaton’ being what is last touched. Does it really matter that we can’t see the wing? Maybe that is our spot to dig since it begins, “Under that. . .” Maybe we just find the north side of where it once stood and dig? “
wilhouse

I’m still rooting for someone to find the treasure there.  From the description of the Cleveland dig, I don’t think merely digging with your hands is going to get you deep enough, and I don’t think a metal detector would be of any use.  Rather than sneaking around, it may come down to becoming fast friends with the groundskeeper.  What about the idea of getting a long rod to probe the ground?

i found this about regents park and primrose hill which could refer to queen elizabeth (the statue) because of it (regents park)  being a Royal Park:
“Fed, a visiting American academic, is ‘walking along the Regent’s Canal above Camden Lock on a glowing June day’, preoccupied with thoughts of Rosemary. Another American visitor, Vinnie, has rented a flat in Regent’s Park Road and visits the Zoo. ‘An early-afternoon shower has sluiced the dust from the still-shiny leaves and the mica-flecked paths, and has lent the air a scented freshness.’ Seated on a bench and musing on her life, she too becomes preoccupied with thoughts of her lover (p.205-215).”
MCCAFFERTY, REGIS
okay probably, nothing……just throwing it in the pot
and this:
“Albert “Skipper” Bell began clearing and doing preliminary work on the site.”
just added that for the bells in the image
regulus have you gone yet?  can’t wait to hear from you!

No Mica, OR driftwood. Hmmm.

My own
The word “mica” is thought to be derived from the Latin word micare, to glitter.  Could Mica just be referring to the glittering ocean itself?

So what is the consensus on this one? With shore line erosion at the watergate, it seems that this casque is not recoverable. Time to put this one on the shelf in the ‘solved but not recoverable’ category?

MrSeabass

Not yet. Barrier island erosion was well known for a long time, and even if nobody anticipated the future hurricane damages and land erosion, I would want to believe BP would be smart enough to bury something in an area with a better chance of stability and protection. Most of the other burials and their proposed solutions place objects largely within a barriered park or otherwise within the boundss of man-made constructs. Putting something in the ground that is largely only bounded by the ocean… I would doubt that. Have to remember that things like the water table had to be considered too when it came to burying near the coast. Too close/to deep and you hit water.

That’s a great point. I agree. He spent so much time crafting these casques you would think that he would have buried them in a relatively ‘stable’ area. I wonder if the gates were open at one point. I am picturing one ‘wing’ of the gate opened with the casque buried under it just adjacent to the “path that beckons.” Would be great if someone had older (1980s) pictures of the watergate they could share. A detailed analysis of the area on the ‘garden side’ of the watergate might provide vital clues. There seem to be more pics of the ‘shore-side’ available.

White was the artist who did the images on signs around the park.

davinci4

He spent so much time crafting these casques you would think that he would have buried them in a relatively ‘stable’ area.

This is one of Paul Kitchen’s pictures of the Water Gate from the beach side, from, maybe, 2013 or so…? I don’t think BP could have anticipated the thing falling into the sea back in 1982, when he must have imagined them being found within a few years.
(Still, there’s been no definitive posts about image matches or “last touched or first seen standing”, so it might still be knocking around somewhere.)

“Still, there’s been no definitive posts about image matches or “last touched or first seen standing”, so it might still be knocking around somewhere.”
That’s very true. The optimistic in me wants to the think it was buried on the ‘garden-side’ of the gate by the posts. WhiteRabbit, there was someone named Mateo who claimed there was a latch on the gate that matched a piece of the suit of armor. Are you familiar with any images that would corroborate this finding?
One other thing that may warrant discussion. That fact that it was buried “under” something seems curious if we are talking about the gate.

davinci4

WhiteRabbit, there was someone named Mateo who claimed there was a latch on the gate that matched a piece of the suit of armor. Are you familiar with any images that would corroborate this finding?

…no, I’ve only seen the usual images with what looks like a chain and padlock…

Yes. The latch. Probably what Mateo was referring to, hardly a match to anything in the painting. ..I really like your idea of the knight pointing downwards to the casque with archway being a representation of the water gate. The last part of the verse implies that you are on the shore (looking north at Kitty Hawk), hard to see any other object (besides the gate) being a fit. Also, not many other objects in that area besides a bench and the watergate itself which Preiss could have used as a marker.
Over the years, I have been getting away from image matching at the burial sites and focusing more on the verses. The two that have been found seem to have strong markers at the casque (perhaps the reason why they were found), I am just not convinced they all work that way. This one, in particular, seems to be a pretty convincing solution even without any markers.

I’m a newcomer to the world of Image 3 and Verse 11, but I had the opportunity to visit the Air & Space Museum in DC this morning. No new information from their awesome Wright Brothers exhibit, just wanted to share these photos to corroborate what others had already pulled up.

Last line analysis:
Your goal. = something that looks like a goal post or a net.

wow, last time I checked in, I passed right by this thread.  This, to me, is a DIRECT HIT.  I will definitely start looking into this V.  Great find SC9.  😮

Ferrymaiden: Believe it or not, Ft Raleigh National Historic Site hasn’t changed that drastically during the years I have been visiting there. In fact very little. They groom the paths, and clean the parking lot, but it looks pretty much the same to me as it did 10 years ago.  Also, I hate to keep repeating this, but if the bench itself or the bench area is close to where the casque is buried, then why doesn’t the bench appear as a marker or landmark in Image 3?  Especially if the casque is under the bench as some here theorize.

Kato – the bench is wooden. I think it unlikely that it has been there – exposed to the elements (including hurricanes and flying sand) – 27 years ago, yet completely unharmed.

Forest: You are right of course, the bench was probably not there in 1982.  Even if it were, I don’t see how it could possibly be, ” that which can be last touched or first seen standing.”  The area in the immediate vicinity of the bench could be where the casque is buried, but again where are the markers in Image 3 that correspond to this area?

I wanted to avoid this verse and image 3. Now it’s nabbed up what’s left of my brain.
I’m finding some ridiculous chess references.  The T-shaped knight looks chess piece like on that pedestal.
I decided the line “to mica and driftwood” was too innocent.  Mica is a common component of plaster.  Looking at spots around the Roanoke area I had to wonder if Rodanthe (flower petals) could be alluded to as “the Rodin” (pronounced like Rodan).  Auguste Rodin would use plasters in his sculptural career.  I viewed his work often at the Jordan Schnitzer museum on the Oregon campus.  It’s probably too elaborate to consider Rodanthe = “Rodin, the”.  The next couple named areas along the road are Waves (driftwood?) and Salvo (meaning simultaneous cannon fire).  On the west shore is a T-shaped harbor called Blackmar Gut.  This reminded me of the brave and aggressive chess gambit opening (1.d4 d5 2.e4 dxe4 3.Nc3…) the Blackmar-Diemer.  Is that ridiculous, plausible?
Then I start to see things.  A feature north of this harbor looks like the belly (gut) and legs portion of the fairy turned 90 degrees counterclockwise.
I might venture a guess about where to dig:  “Look North at the wing and dig”, perhaps you must stand at the south side of the telephone pole, looking north and dig on that south side.  See this streetview image of the Blackmar Gut harbor looking westward.
Notice now the similarity of the knights propped arms to this particular Telephone pole.

I strongly believe the match of
Pass two friends of octave
to
Hyrum and Joseph Smith
(“Two friend” matches to two brothers and octave matches to well known history group of eight witnesses) is the breakthrough for this verse!

I have a lead on the the first line. I have been looking for a verse to match up with Salt Lake City (Painting 11).
Pass two friends of octave
It seems we need something or someone that is
two
of
eight
(octave).
There are a lot of statues and “landmarks” in Temple Square. In looking for something representing two of anything in Temple Square, I came across the following picture of statues of brothers Hyrum and Joseph Smith.
On a hunch, I wondered if they were brothers in a family of eight children. But I never got that far. I came across a reference to both Hyrum and Joseph being two of the “Eight Witnesses”, “who signed a statement stating that they had seen the golden plates which Joseph Smith, Jr. said was his source material for the Book of Mormon”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eight_Witnesses

This verse seems to follow a logical step by step travel from one spot to the final spot, similar to Verse 8 for Milwaukee. If we have a possible solve for the first line we can look for the step in the next line or lines. It seems to me that line two and three are connected.
The second line of the verse:
In December
“December”, of course, does not likely mean the month December. That would be too simple. Thoughts I have so far are:
12
End or completion, maybe as in end of a life or a season
Cold
The third line of the verse:
Ride the man of oz
“Ride” seems like a good word for travel, move or walk.
The story
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
seems to have only four main characters that could be a “man of Oz”:
The Wizard
The Scarecrow
The Cowardly Lion
The Tin Woodman
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wonderful_Wizard_of_Oz
So with these two lines together what are we looking for?

Sonoran

This verse seems to follow a logical step by step travel from one spot to the final spot, similar to Verse 8 for Milwaukee. If we have a possible solve for the first line we can look for the step in the next line or lines. It seems to me that line two and three are connected.
The second line of the verse:
In December
“December”, of course, does not likely mean the month December. That would be too simple. Thoughts I have so far are:
12
End or completion, maybe as in end of a life or a season
Cold
The third line of the verse:
Ride the man of oz
“Ride” seems like a good word for travel, move or walk.
The story
The Wonderful Wizard of Oz
seems to have only four main characters that could be a “man of Oz”:
The Wizard
The Scarecrow
The Cowardly Lion
The Tin Woodman

The original story has a
lot
more characters than just these four. Not to mention the fact that the original “Man of Oz” could be L. Frank Baum himself, the author of all 14 of the Oz books, as well as
The Life and Adventures of Santa Claus
–notable for being a famous “December” character.
So the Man of Oz might indeed be Santa Claus, Baum, TikTok (another prominent male Oz character) or the Nome King–or some other character in one of those numerous books. Or
Santa  Claus
.
Here are synopses of all the Oz books:
http://www.halcyon.com/piglet/books1.htm
There’s another interesting fact: The original story, The Wonderful Wizard of Oz, was set in Kansas, but Baum based it on drought-ridden South Dakota, where he was living at the time (in Aberdeen). If one is attempting to tie in this V to image 11, which can ALSO be tied to the Dakotas, then this might clinch that association.
There might be a train, or route, or ferry, or other conveyance–even a sleigh?–that means “ride the man of oz,” but I’m inclined to believe this means something different indeed. For one, the whole sentence reads:
ride the man of oz To the land near the window
First, “OZ” is not capitalized. That disturbs me. Why isn’t it? If he’s indeed talking about the land of Oz, then it would need to be capitalized as a proper noun. It’s not, so that means maybe it doesn’t mean a place. What else could it mean? Well–consider the ‘legends’ about how Baum’s “Land of Oz” got its name: (a) that the author’s filing cabinets were so marked–A-M and O-Z. (not true.)  Or that it means Ounce. (also not true). or that it was becasue of the fantasy and the exclamations from readers: “AAAHs” (also not true.)  What about OUR assigned relationships to “oz?”  the one that comes to mind is, of course, Australia. A man of oz might be an Australian. “Ride the Australian…” might make some sense in context.
The “land near the window” puzzles me more. A conveyance might or might not have a window–cars or trains do, but boats have portholes and sleighs are open. A road or route has no windows.  This statement is
very
cryptic.  It seems to follow the theme of Santa Claus, however–if you take the meaning of “ride” as “follow along behind” as in “he rode my coattails.”  And of course, in the very famous poem about St. Nicholas, the first glimpse of Santa that is seen is through the window that papa opens when the clatter arises on the lawn.
Next, you have mention of a road–which would make the idea that ‘ride the man of oz’ meant follow a road or route–why say it two ways, when you don’t need to?
There’s a road that leads to dark forest
, is the next line, and that’s once again referencing the Santa Claus legends–that St. Nicholas was a traveling monk, or priest, who wandered the dark forests of Holland or Germany from village to village bestowing gifts.
then:
where white is in color
Snow is white. And Christmastime is the most colorful time of the year for one so obsessed with white! White is definitely “in color” in December at Christmas.
The reference to July and August might also indicate that one would have to WAIT until those months, (when it was warm? When the tide went out far enough? when something wet dried up? when the SNOW melted?) to access the path to the casque. Perhaps that means it’s up a mountainside or in a mountain pass where the snow might be too deep to access at other times of the year. That could mean in the Mountains, or in a wilderness area, or perhaps only during a time when tours were conducted.
It might indicate a monument where one can only see something in a certain way during those months.
My two cents worth anyway.

Sorry for any confusion this causes…but I posted a pic of what I thought was the castle on the box in Image 11, tying this image in with this verse. I was incorrect–the castle in question could not have been the one depicted, because it wasn’t there until 1985, even though the rest of the park it’s in was there from 1971. Sorry if you saw it. I’ve removed the pic and the posts.  oh well…back to the drawing board….

thanks willhouse, good to know
so im guessing the weld at the T isnt as strong as it could be
is it like a spot weld

no, right side by the houseish

Goldengate

It began the day after the Expedition Unknown segment aired and Josh arrived claiming to have solved the puzzle in a week. Yes, there have been other savants who go on about miraculously “solving” one or more casque locations — but considering Josh’s five accounts (three purged and banned), he has posted over 3,000 times… in ten months.
I’m as guilty as many others who have repeatedly called him out on the trolling, but that tone and tenor he brought here when he joined was the beginning of the slide. Those 3,000 posts (roughly 2,000 mercifully purged by our moderator) have buried much of what was good about this nearly 20 year old forum, which IMO remains the most important resource on The Secret.
You’re not alone, Fenix, we’ve lost several great key searchers, veteran and newcomers alike who are done with his trolling and bullying and have found other forums like Facebook where Josh has been permanently blocked. Those forums are not perfect, they still attract the “I solved it all in one day” crowd… but nothing approaches the toxicity he’s brought to bear on this group.
I don’t think all is lost, I think the vigorous debate, semi-respectful virtual hair pulling and fair discussion can return. But as long as this troll continues to swamp every conversation, I think we all know that simply won’t be the case. Until something can be done about it, the forum has become Josh’s personal sounding board — which is exactly what he wants… and that’s a shame.

Well said. I used to spend hours a week here pouring over the new posts and enjoying the theories (even the off the wall ones) that were offered. Now I check in every once in awhile just to make sure nothing major has happened I just couldn’t take the excessive posting. I hope someday the “old times” will return, or if not that I’ll somehow be let in on the “secret”
of the other forums.

gManTexas

Okay, tough guy. If this is true, stop claiming that you have solved everything and produce a casque. Then your bullshit just might be accepted on this forum.

or what gman? you wanna piece of me? you wanna piece? *tips hat* *puts up chaplin dukes* *does a little dance* i float like a buttafly…i sting like a like a bee…you wanna piece? you wanna piece of me?!

gg must be writing my biography.

BINGO

Well said.
If you find that place, please pm me. I would love for the opportunity to join.

here

Spiritr

isn’t it what this forum is for???

Read the entire post at the top of this page made by fenix. Maybe that will help answer your question.
Maybe reading it out loud while looking into a mirror will help it sink in a little better.

bad news
i was in a car accident, tuesday morn 9-8-09, and it has thrown, my already bad back out.
this happened on the job, while transporting clients, no clients in van i had dropped off
last client, about 8 min, b4 i was rear ended, im doing 25 he is doing 35-40 mph, we are both
in motion, no braking involved till the crunch. at least i did not hit the car in front of me.
this is the 3rd rear end accident, for me in the last 7yr. in the last 2, i was pushed into oncoming
traffic, and hit again. lucky this time, was in curb lane and 50 ft from a 5 lane intersection
at all 4 points, could have been worse i guess. yes he was on the F phone, just like the last 2 Xs
im off work for 2 wks, that SUCKS. i love my job. i work with intellectually disabled adults.
feeling better now that ive ranted, not really
now i need therapy, for the next several wks, so no traveling. sorry guys maybe later in the yr
wonder if i can sue for the loss of fun time LOL

well work has been, and therapy, is going prob till 2nd week of oct
thinking i will not get to chesapeake,va to help moms cuz, so wont get
my day at the park any time soon. was thinking around feb. or april
check out my new probe, a buddy made for me, he might go with
would have took a pic but cant find the memory card for camera

Trip Report to the Outer Banks of North Carolina
Several weeks we visited the Outer Banks – primarily to sightsee, but why not try for a casque?  For those who want the 10-second version – nothing found, but still some possibility.
For those who want the longer version – read on!  Shoot me a message if you can’t read the links – they should work, but things happen.  Also, some of my narrative have been discussed elsewhere, but I wanted to string it all together.
We traveled south on Hwy 158 from Virginia, crossing the sound onto the Outer Banks.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/1.jpg
I don’t have anything new to add to the first four lines of the verse, so I’ll continue to assume that it refers to the Wright Brothers and crossing the Washington Baum Bridge which crosses from the Outer Banks to the island of Manteo, home of the Roanoke colony.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/2.jpg
“There’s a road that leads to Dark forest” – The initial colony at Roanoke failed and all the colonists disappeared.  A play dramatizing these events, “The Lost Colony”, describes the disappearance as the colonists “walked away through the dark forest into history”.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/3.jpg
“Where white is in color” – John White was the governor of the Roanoke Colony and also an artist who painted in watercolors.
“With two maps” – perhaps a reference to a trail marker in Fort Raleigh National Historic Site, location of the Roanoke colony
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/4.jpg
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/5.jpg
“After circle and square” – located within, but separate from, the National Historic Sight are the Elizabethan Gardens (see white section in
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/4.jpg
).  The map of the gardens shows a circle and square – several in fact.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/6.jpg
“In July and August” – jumping back over to the National Historic Site is a plague.  The original picture wasn’t so great – and neither is my attempt to enhance it.  But the first line says “On this site in July-August 1585”.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/7.jpg
“A path beckons To mica and driftwood” – at this point we can jump back to the Elizabethan Gardens and follow the path indicated as 16 on the map.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/6.jpg
Here’s the path itself.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/9.jpg
Or we could jump off the Thomas Hariot Nature Trail.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/8.jpg
Either way, we come to roughly the same spot, within 50 feet or so.  I’m assuming that the path is beckoning towards the beach – certainly driftwood is there.  Mica is a silicate, sand is a silicate.  Keep in mind; I’m neither a chemist nor a geologist.
“Under that Which may be last touched Or first seen standing” – I was really hoping to find something that was tall because I was thinking of last touched by the sun (at sunset) or first seen standing (at sunrise).  But, there wasn’t anything that stood out that fit the description.  Instead we find
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/10.jpg
looking west,
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/11.jpg
looking east (it’s a theater that shows “The Last Colony”), and the beach side of the gate from the Elizabethan Gardens (no ribbing about the finger!)
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/12.jpg
“Look north at the wing And dig” – standing on the beach, looking at the Sound, is north.  There’s been discussion elsewhere about “the wing” but I can’t verify it.  However, I couldn’t just leave – instead I dug around two trees on either side of the beach side gate.  Didn’t get a thing but it made me think about the changes in the landscape here over the last 20+ years.  Here’s some erosion that’s taken place over some unknown period of time.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/13.jpg
This wouldn’t be complete without some references to image 3:
Coat of Arms of John White –
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/14.jpg
Island of Manteo – The line extending northward on the image would suggest that I should have looked further east than the “x” on the map.  If the line means anything.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/15.jpg
Pea in a spoon – Further down the Outer Banks is Pea Island.  The shape of the Outer Banks could (very) loosely be considered spoon shaped.
Entrance gate to the Elizabethan Gardens –Unfortunately, not very similar to the arch in the image.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/16.jpg
Incomplete set of armor – when John White returned to find Roanoke vanished, he did find his armor rusting on the ground. They didn’t wear the full suit of armor, so the image may represent White’s left-behind armor.
Struts on armor – some of the older trees in the Elizabethan Garden have support wires on the older branches.
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/17.jpg
Or it could represent the struts on the Wright flyer.
Once again, not successful but fun.  I’m pretty sure I won’t be in that area again – hope someone else can build on this.  Good luck – stu

Stu,
Thanks for sharing your pictures and thoughts.  Looks like you had fun!

Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing
Look north at the wing
for some reason i keep thinking a play on words
seen/scene
wing/part of theater
standing/last touched/ curtian
under that?
just putting it out there

lol, forest_blight!  it’s soooooo frustrating
wow, that’s a good thought cw!  scene, seen….. that means  you’re gonna have to watch the whole show to see where they start scene one and the very last scene! …maybenot because “north’ would be the left wing right?    i really like that cw, i hope that’s it!!!!!
i was just looking again at the map of roanoke in the image, and it has that line coming off the top of the island……….wouldn’t that be where the theater is?
always before, i had thought circle and square was the parking lot and the garden at elizabethan gardens, but, i read where elizabethan gardens are made of geometric shapes…..so the verse says “after” circle and square, then the “in july and august” which is “lost colony” theater, i believe, because they only do that in the summer..
i’m excited about this cw!

I spent my day at Roanoke and only just got back. It was a terrific trip (sorry, no casque!), and I’m tuckered. I will post the full story soon, hopefully tomorrow. Not much new to add, but I do have some observations that reinforce the existing Roanoke theory. More later…

This is the first of a few posts on my Roanoke trip. Before you read on, I recommend that everyone go back and read spacecraft9’s post of 9/13/04 and nodon’s post of 4/24/05.
I drove out on Saturday morning, crossing into Roanoke via the lower Rt. 64. Some maps don’t show it yet (including Google), but there are
two
bridges to Roanoke Island from the west. Passing up several opportunities to eat, I shot straight for the Elizabethan Gardens.
Take a self-tour:
http://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/selfmap.jpg
It’s a terrific place, only a few acres but very well maintained and tranquil. Full of statuary. Not many people there yesterday. I wandered around for a while taking pictures, but saved the best for last, heading for the Water Gate that leads onto the beach.
The gate was locked. A gardener (later I discovered her name was Margaret) was there, raking debris off the path. I said hi, and something about me must have said “treasure hunter” because she commented that someone with a metal detector could probably find loads of stuff out on that beach. Maybe it was the 4-foot shovel I had slung across my back (just kidding). I asked her if it would be okay to walk out onto the beach; she said it was probably not a good idea to do it from the Gardens.
So, back to the Gardens for more photography. Ready to leave, I ask another gardener (Diane) if there was a way to get onto the beach, but she didn’t know of anywhere nearby. Then I asked if there was anyone there who had been there at least since 1982. She replied Gary the gardener (not there that day). When she asked why I had all these questions, I told her. Once we got past the initial “okay, this guy’s a crackpot” look, she became intrigued with the idea of the verse-and-picture combination leading to a treasure, and caught treasure fever as she tried to figure out what could be meant by
Under that / Which may be last touched / Or first seen standing
. She led me to a “staff only” area of the grounds where she showed me an old postcard she’d found, showing trees on the beach.
Margaret showed up and pointed out that those trees were not near the Gardens at all. Now all three of us are excited about cracking this nut, so Margaret takes us down a path to a little-used trail behind the restrooms that only the gardeners knew about, and we make our way to a point where the barbed-wire fence surrounding the gardens isn’t so difficult to cross. We went beachcombing for a bit, speculating about this and that with no hard theories forming. We traded contact information in case inspiration struck, and they insisted that I contact them if I decide to return and dig. Official permission from the administration apparently isn’t necessary as long as we have Margaret and Diane on our side!
After that I wondered around Fort Raleigh for a bit and then ate dinner at a good seafood restaurant on nodon’s suggestion. Sauteed crab meat, mmmm…
I wanted to visit the Wright Brothers National Memorial, but they were closing the gates when I got there and I was too tired to look for a back entrance to sneak through.

I want to add some thoughts to spacecraft9’s wonderful post of 9/13/04, in the same style.
Pass two friends of octave
In December
Ride the man of oz
To the land near the window
I agree with those who have pointed out that lines 1 and 2 refer to the Wright Brothers National Memorial, line 3 refers to the Baum bridge or ferry (doesn’t matter which), and line 4 refers to Roanoke itself, and definitely links Verse 11 to Image 3.
There’s a road that leads to
Dark forest
The phrase “dark forest” appears in the bronze plaque on the front wall of the Elizabethan Gardens. As far as I can tell, it appears nowhere else. Word for word, the plaque reads:
THE ELIZABETHAN GARDEN
Down the centuries,
English women have built gardens,
to the glory of God, the
beauty of the countryside and
the comfort of their souls.
The women of the Garden Club
of North Carolina, Inc. have
planted this garden in memory
of the valiant men and women
who founded the first
English colony in America.
From this hallowed ground
on Roanoke Island, they
walked away through the
dark forest
,
and into history.
1585 – 1951.
…”dark forest” being a metaphor for death, since no European ever saw them alive again.

Where white is in color
With two maps
Here is a “rephotograph” of nodon’s marker. It took some hunting, but I tracked it down in a beach overlook off the Thomas Hariot trail.
Of course, after fighting with barbed wire in the Elizabethan Gardens, I found at least three spots that led directly to the beach from the Hariot trail with no impediment, this being one of them. Nodon said this earlier, but I forgot, and I think the ranger on duty would have tackled me had he seen me carrying a shovel in the direction of the Fort Raleigh earthworks in broad daylight.
The ranger on duty suspected that the markers had been placed there in the 1970s, well in anticipation of the 1987 quadricentennial of the colony. The Hariot trail itself, he said, had been cleared in the 1960s.
The problem is that the marker isn’t really in color. It’s white-on-brown. And the depicted engraving is by de Brye, not White. Whereas de Brye did turn many of White’s watercolors into engravings, we can only speculate that this one was based on a map by White. Here is an account of this engraving:
http://www.virtualjamestown.org/images/white_debry_html/white.html#s33
The Visitor Center does have a small museum area with some of White’s watercolors. It could be that the first of these lines refers to White’s paintings in the Visitor Center while the second line refers – separately – to the map marker and has nothing to do with White.

After circle and square
My favorite theory is that this is a reference to the Sunken Garden, a large circular fountain surrounded by a larger landscaped square. Around the fountain are statues of Venus, Jupiter, Diana, and Apollo.
In July and August
There is a water fountain near The Mount in the Elizabethan Gardens with the name “Augusta” on it. I don’t think it has anything to do with our casque, but I thought I’d throw it out there:
The Lost Colony
is performed June through August now, but was it limited to July and August in 1982? Perhaps we should look into this.
But the most convincing theory is nodon’s, that this line is a reference to the 1896 Fort Raleigh marker, which contains the phrase “On this site in July – August 1585…” in its first line.
A path beckons
And look, here’s a path beside the 1896 marker, beckoning. This is the path that leads to the theatre, the Hariot trail, and Fort Raleigh.
I agree with everything in spacecraft9’s post with one exception. I don’t think
A path beckons
refers to the passage on the web page, unless it was transcribed from an old tourist brochure (possible?). This was probably written for the web page, and makes reference to the gazebo built in 1981, scarcely a year before Preiss would have visited.
To mica and driftwood
Your guess is as good as mine, but there is plenty of driftwood on the beach.

Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing
These are the lines giving everyone headaches, because we think they are the ones that precisely determine the spot to dig. I have a theory that even I don’t believe, but I’ll relate it just in case.
If one sits on the bench at the beach overlook and stands, the first thing you see over the fence (or perhaps over encroaching vegetation in 1983?) is the left-most of these posts:
It might also be the last one you would touch if you were wading and using them as hand-holds.
Look north at the wing
The Wright Brothers Memorial is visible from this point. Unfortunately, that would mean the casque is buried on the north side of the leftmost post, but that would put it underwater.
And dig
To achieve
By dauntless and inconquerable
Determination
Your goal.
i.e., you’re standing on it, so dig.

Some general comments…
I have come to the conclusion that there are just as many clues pointing to the Elizabethan Gardens as to Fort Raleigh, immediately adjacent to the east. I think
Dark forest
refers to the plaque and
After circle and square
probably refers to the Sunken Garden. But
Where white is in color / With two maps
may refer to a marker on the Thomas Hariot trail in Ft. Raleigh and
In July and August
refer to a stone marker near the fort site. Both locations empty to spots on the beach that are mere yards from one another, where one may
Look north at the wing / And dig
.
The interior of the Gardens belongs to the Garden Club, and I’m sure I could solicit their full cooperation if I were to present convincing evidence of a spot to dig (like Wilhouse and the Children’s Zoo). However, the beach is part of a National Park, and there is no way we could convince them to let us take a ground-penetrating radar device onto land that is protected for archaeological reasons.
I took lots of other pictures, mostly of trees, paths, statuary, etc. if anyone cares to see them. But nothing jumped out at me.

One more thing. If anyone else decides to make this trip,
do it in April
when the azaleas are in bloom and the mosquitos are less bloodthirsty.

kato when are you going back to OBX, or maybe you went already
do you have pics of Egarden and park to share
thanks

The EG keeps a bunch of old photographs and documents, but not in the gift-shop building at the gate. In another building on the grounds, where the offices, costumes, etc. are kept. See images 0827-0830 on my webshots album for Roanoke.
http://travel.webshots.com/album/550878737WxeMst

working on my plan of action
have a Q about the visitor center
does anyone remember, if their were older photos, of the Egarden there,
or were they in the garden, i  remember seeing some, just not where
are the bells for this…..may have been discussed sorry if was
The Roanoke Island Historical Society leased 10.5 acres to The Garden Club of North Carolina
for the proposed gardens. Albert “Skipper” Bell began clearing and doing preliminary work on the site.
2007
Restoration of The Elizabethan Gardens begins.
………….should i send an email, to see if they found, something odd
from the time line
http://www.elizabethangardens.org/timeline.html
could the armor man be the map, so to speak

cw,
another point for it being by the elizabethan entrance is the coat of arms above the entrance door:
http://www.landscape-america.com/elzibe … index.html
taking the word “wing” to “feather” to “crest” to “coat of arms”
key–door-entrance

slappy im going to look at this area too, but not outside of door,
to many changes can and do happen there
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/116066 … 6789mShmBp
will be looking out side of here, but more inside where pots are,
those pots are the closest ive seen from the 1500, or more photos
ive look at, now if i could fig which pot, and where around pot to probe
http://family.webshots.com/photo/104346 … 9578zTfHRx
http://community.webshots.com/photo/ful … 0573QbcScD
i was thinking more a….. coat of arms/armor
and the scroll things, on the crest look like the bands on the armor
i like the wing word association too
coat of arms
http://community.webshots.com/photo/ful … 5088YGOUZA
the points ive picked to concentrate on are below, and the pear rd area also
the pear rd, ill look at b4 Egardens open

Seriously, does it look like a phone?

I found a better visual match to the Crossley CR93.  There are two smaller arms that match the shape of the belt.
Some other random bits of informatiin I found:  phone named a “potbelly” which resembled a kind of stove reminded me of the ptbelly fairy.  Mica was used in the manufacture of the diaphragm transmitter of an old candlestick type phone.
I also found a significant bit of Civil War history.  A Colonel Augustus Romaldus Wright and the Chicamacomico Races.

No.

Yeah, well it I found a better visual match… the crucifixion of Jesus, which occurred, as prophesied, only after Augustus (Octavius) called a census to prompt his birth. It must be in Bethlehem.

I am being reasonable at least.  The Civil War account of forces is fascinatiing.  Historical markers to support the record are prominent in many places.  Telephone poles representing easy-one-step crucifixions abound.  There might be a shortage of Judges however…oh wait, there’s the airfields where “Pilates” surely take to their wings on a regular basis.

WhiteRabbit

…I also like Erexere’s insulator idea a lot…

I looked at every power pole along Dare Raod and inside the park. No glass insulators. That does not mean that back in 1981/2 there were none, just not today!

Fantastic, thanks Paul!  🙂
Considering the spoon in the image, I was interested to see one of the signs mentions “
spoon
leaf Yucca”…
Four21thrasher previously mentioned the stuff, but I hadn’t seen it written down.
The sign looks quite faded, but I’m wondering if the weird spiky red design in the picture might be the leaves…?
“Spoonleaf Yucca for clothing”…

WhiteRabbit

Thanks Paul. I see the Nature Trail has a series of signs with quotes from Hariot’s
Briefe and True Report
. I’d be interested to get the texts from these. (I wonder if the missing sign was one of them.)
Here’s the frontispiece to Hariot’s report. The column…?
The hanging bells?
The book was illustrated by
Theodor de Bry
. I imagine BP could have obtained a copy. The same illustration seems to have been used as the title page for de Bry’s “Grand Voyages”, and a higher resolution version can be seen
here
. I wonder if any of the signs in this area show Theodore’s illustrations, or even that particular image.

I have posted a number of photos for all to see. click on this link and enjoy. Any comments and/or suggestions would be nice. I am happy to be your eyes in the field. Maybe we will find this thing.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8079704@N0 … 176347805/

Paul Kitchen

I have posted a number of photos for all to see. click on this link and enjoy. Any comments and/or suggestions would be nice. I am happy to be your eyes in the field. Maybe we will find this thing.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8079704@N0 … 176347805/

Here is a link to the Hariot report. It is a modern english version. I will look for the origianal.
http://www.nps.gov/fora/forteachers/tho … report.htm

the other side of gate
http://www.flickr.com/photos/8079704@N0 … 176442943/
thank you paul

Thanks a lot, Paul. The images are great; and, they a great contribution to the Internet as pictures of the signage were previously unavailable.
One of the signs – the Cedar sign – caught my eye with its mention of breadspreads(?)… “first touched, last seen standing”…
WR – I like the yucca as clothing idea.

…I also like Erexere’s insulator idea a lot…

WhiteRabbit

…I also like Erexere’s insulator idea a lot…

You cant help but notice that great comparison.  Even in 1981 that style of insulated resistor was antique.  Wherever this place is, its remote enough and historic enough that they didnt get around to updating their wires much…its been long enough now It would be unlikely they are still around.  At least it supports my Telephone Pole theory.
As for Roanoke, I dont support that as a location for a casque.  I see it as a clearly outlined image like the Terminal Tower in Cleveland, just a ways down the “road” from the treasure ground.  In this case its a ferry ride and a small drive to Rodanthe where we find the belly of the fairy.

erexere

As for Roanoke, I dont support that as a location for a casque.

I know, but the rest of us do, and there’s someone who’s actually there, so it’s worth focussing on for a while.
I like the insulators as that’s something you could get under, as the verse describes. Glass…mica glass…dunno. Worth looking out for those things though. The whole image might represent a telegraph pole.

Yeah, the new flood of pictures and research is great.  I tried to understand the connections to that area better but I cant get convinced.  Its not that i have other ideas getting in the way.  The only part that i like is the bead on Kill Devil Hills FB talked about.
My big question is where does the window come in?  The window behind the cruciform has to fit into place.  Any windows around there?  Maybe a little roadside vendor of antique junk or a museum building that looks out east towards KDH?

Now you’ve got the book, study the nationality angle. Roanoke is closely associated with the English. KDH and Rodanthe aren’t.

More importantly, “pass two friends of Octave” (the Wright Brothers), “ride the man of Oz” (ride the Baum ferry), “to the land near the window”, which is the outline of Roanoke island… It’s a very good fit.

bigmattyh

More importantly, “pass two friends of Octave” (the Wright Brothers), “ride the man of Oz” (ride the Baum ferry), “to the land near the window”, which is the outline of Roanoke island… It’s a very good fit.

Yes, really good fit.
WR, the English connecton I get but it doesnt mean Roanoke has to be the home of a casque.  I think the ferry to Roanoke is the start of the journey and establishes a crossing over to Outer Banks hiighwaaay 12 where you can look North at the wing as you go south to Rodanthe.

um….in the interest of accuracy,
The Baum Ferry was not built or delivered to the state of North Carolina until 1995 and it does not run to Roanoke Island. The TA Baum ferry runs from Cape Hatteras to Ocracoke, well south of Roanoke Island.
The ferry
LINE
in North Carolina was operational in 1947, when the NC Highway commission bought the T.A. BAUM’s ferry
COMPANY
. At
that
time, the single ferry ran from Manns Harbor to Roanoke Island. Today, no ferry connect Roanoke I. with anything. Instead, there are two bridges–one of which is probably the same as that first ferry route.
The correct Baum item is the Washington-Baum Bridge–which connects the outer banks to Roanoke island on the other  (East) side of the island. The route is US 64–this route connect Roanoke Island to the Mainland via the Virginia Dare Memorial Bridge. .

Unknown

Unknown:
I like the insulators as that’s something you could get under, as the verse describes. Glass…mica glass…dunno. Worth looking out for those things though. The whole image might represent a telegraph pole.

This has a lot of merit, although there is no such thing as “mica glass”. Perhaps you meant “isinglass”. Either way, mica is primarily used as an electrical component and insulator, so seeing those bell-like objects as electrical insulators is actually a leap of logic I can get behind.
I saw that figure’s outstretched arms in two ways: (1) as wings. Especially wings on an older airplane, i.e. the Wright Flyer. I also saw them as a “bridge” from one “outer bank” to another (the borders of the image itself.) This is the only image that has any object sitting “outside” it’s own borders. The telegraph pole  is a very good idea as well. They also resemble a mast, which doesn’t have to mean a mast ON a ship. The mast is actually only the vertical part–the boom is the part that crosses it. Any long tall structure with a boom can be a mast.
I also thought that the objects you call insulators were bells–it made sense to me because Bell is a well-known aviation firm, though they are better known for their helicopters than anything else. So, BTW, is IMP Group Ltd., a Canadian Aerospace manufacturer. That little imp dangling under the carnation…
The spoon with the pea:  Pea Island is part of this area in the Outer Banks.

hi paul,when you have time,could you get pics of the wall,on the right of this
pic and the end of that wall,that is on the right,im wondering if it cuts off
inside at a 90 or a 45 degree angle,and the length of the wall,as it goes toward
the ocean,the entrance to the garden reminds me of the armor mans belt
this pic gate and wall
http://www.bayislandphotography.com/keyword/elizabethan%20gardens#!i=1141022136&k=kNtN5&lb=1&s=XL
entrance
http://www.gardenvisit.com/assets/madge … o_600x.jpg
fixed link

Just did a search to check, nobody seems to have mentioned yet that the image looks similar to a man in a chariot.  C_hariot trail?

Block and tackle is a conclusion Ive drawn from the objects suspended by lines in image 3 and the ending line of verse “your goal” as a football clue.  Football gear is just like the jousting dummy, armored head to torso but not the legs.

Another followup re the Harpers Ferry Center. The tube they sent contained more than 3 cellophane (?) transparencies. I took some admittedly bad photographs before sending them back. I do
not
think these will be helpful, but for completeness’ sake I post them here:
http://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/fr1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/fr2.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/fr3.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/quantpsy/trove/fr4.jpg
The reason I sought these out was on the remote chance that they represent what was on the missing sign from the Hariot Trail overlook. These, I fear, were used as templates for larger illustrations in the visitor’s center. Have we hit a dead end here?

Your work is well appreciated.  Don’ give up.  That verse must be there!

forest_blight

Paul – welcome back. My favorite spot for GPR would be between those mysterious wooden posts at the ocean-front overlook on the Hariot trail.

I would have to agree wholeheartedly with fb here. Have we ever definitively found what those posts were used for? i would say use that radar all around this area…..and also down by the beach gate. These 2 sites seem to be the best contenders for me.

The architectural term for that barn style roof with two slope angles on each side is called a gambrel.  Gambrel originates from the word for a horse’s leg.  Last touched or first seen standing as a riddle for a barn even makes more sense when including the idea that legs are indicative of standing and there is a horse motif worked into image 3.
The Chicamacomico Life Saving Station doesnt actually have a gambrel for a roof but it does have a a gambrel shape worked into its stylized area above the doors and below the roof apex.
In the months of June July and August only are beach drills performed for tourism at Chicamacomico LSS.  The Breeches Bouy Rescue Drill involves shooting a small cannon with a rope line attached over to a ship mast from land.  A rope pulley system is then used to rescue people.  This idea of ropes and pullys to save people might be the reason image 3 has line suspensions on the arms of the armor.
http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Breeches_buoy

A few years ago I found the name of a summer employee who helped clear the Hariot Trail in the late 1970s, but it was such a common name (I forget what it was; it’s in the archived posts here) there was no hope of locating him. The park had no records of what was there. So unless we locate someone’s old vacation photos of that area, there’s no telling. no one buries posts like that for no reason — they must have held a sign of some sort.

I will get started soon. The keeper of the equipment has changed and I need to butter up the new person. Once greased, off we go! LOL!

Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing
Choosing to touch something last could be described as “stalling”.
The word ‘stable’ literally means “a standing place”, Latin: stabulum.
It’s possible that this is a description of a barn style structure, a stall/stable.
Does that look like a typical barn stable?  Does this also look like a barn?

Looking more carefully at the line
Ride the man of oz
Bell-snickle, a villain of oz, described as a monster wearing bells on it’s ears, blue and green in color, rolls along on it’s edge like a cartwheel
Belsnickel, a Christmas gift-bringer, described as wearing a heavy fur pelt covering his entire body (armor?), has a mask and a long tongue, acting in a good or bad way depending.  Belsnickel is the combination of German word pelzen and Nicholas.  Translation, “pelzen” = pelt.
Comparison of the words ride and pelt:
Ride,
To tease or ridicule.
To harass with persistent carping and criticism.
Pelt,
To hurl (insults) at (a person).
Seems that teasing or ridiculing isn’t at all far off from pointing out a persons shortcomings.
So, taking the word ride at one of its less common dictionary definitions to understand the line in a previously unconsidered manner,
Pelt instead of Ride, the man of oz.
or
A homonym for a character in oz that involves a pelt?
“Belsnickel” (Bell-snickle – the man of oz)
In December
the month with Christmas
“Belsnickel”, a pelt wearing figure at Christmas time.

Hi Paul – there’s been zero progress on Roanoke in your absence, we’ve been saving it all for you.

DUDE! DIG UNDER THE BENCH, DIG UNDER THE BENCH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Dude! I’m like, in Kansas right now. YOU dig!

Dude, ain’t got no benches in Kansas?  Way too funny.

Ok, I’m sorta lost here, where the heck is the Thomas Harriot trail?
From the WBM, we cross the Washington Baum bridge, then we go to the entrance of the Elizabethan Gardens, THEN WHAT?
Help me out here,
by the way my dad lives in Virginia Beach, 50 miles away from the casque, I am sending him a letter with the P and the V, and an explanation.
I am trying to give him exact directions.
Help

forest_blight

This V vexes me more than any other. Two new thoughts:
After circle and square
… We (or at least I) suspect that the Artist used shapes to represent numbers in Images 1 and 11 (number of sides). Why not, then, in the verse as well? “After circle and square” could mean “After 1 and 4” or “After 14.” Could that be meaningful? I wonder if the education stops along the Hariot trail were once numbered. There are several signs along the way explaining points of history or Native American culture.
In July and August
A path beckons
To mica and driftwood
Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing
Look north at the wing
And dig
In other words, if you’re standing at the casque site, you will see three things: (1) a path that goes to the beach, (2) the “wing,” which we take to be the Wright Brothers Memorial, and (3) “that which may be last touched and first seen standing.” Numbers 1 and 2 can be seen only from a limited number of spots in the area we’ve been considering. The most logical one is that lookout on the Hariot trail. It’s remote enough for BP to bury something uninterrupted, and it’s not in danger of immediate erosion. What could be “last touched or first seen standing” at that lookout? Well, this bench:
If you read V11 to mean “Under the object that, upon standing up, is the first thing made visible and the last thing you touch,” it’s the bench.
Thoughts?

I have your answer FB, well
actually nodon has it,
you asked if the Thomas Harriot trail was numbered, well it still is, check this out
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/s … cret/9.jpg
This would explain the AFTER CIRCLE AND SQUARE meaning 14,
BOOM! nailed it.

Thanks for digging up that pic, reg. That photo is actually from the Elizabethan Gardens
next-door
to the woods where the Hariot Trail is found. According to a recent tourist map of the Gardens, 16 (from the photo) is the trail that leads to the Water Gate, and the Gazebo (17) is indeed off to the west of it. 14 is the stone “patio” just north of the fountain, and 15 (which would be
after circle and square
if that means 14) is the grassy area between that patio and the foliage separating the Gardens from the beach.
Now I wonder if the points of interest in the Gardens were numbered 25 years ago. That’s a pretty long time!

I changed my mind on this one.  Based on the angle of the picture, it is difficult to tell if those posts go horizontally along the coast or vertically out into the sea from the coastline.  Perhaps last touched and first seen relates to the posts as the tide changes.  I noticed the varying heights of the posts and based on all other evidence, this place seems right.  Over the last 25 years, could tidal changes be so significant as to be unpredicted by the author.  Is IN conquerable IN the ocean.  53 feet of lost beach. and the size of those posts, seems to indicate it might be under the post closest to the beach.  Just a thought.
Coach

They run parallel to the beach, their purpose unclear since I don’t think they would pose much of a hindrance to further erosion.

Any lightposts or lighthouses in that area?  Last touched, first seen?? Did the brothers aim at a certain target on their maiden flight?

I give up………

I feal the same way about STL but if he has something concrete that ties image 3 to the roanoke island area it will help alot. I will update the omage verse match thread soon to show how it is all likely to fit together. I am sorry to say though if he has somethung definate it basicly eliminates Boston.

i have seen the pictures of the bench on here, but i hadn’t realized it was stone.  i do like the riddle part of “under that which may be last touched” , being your butt, lol.
i don’t remember anyone saying the bench had that symbol.
could the cask have sunk lower than 2 or 3 feet?

He may be referring to this bench in the Elizabethan Gardens:
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/2965555820091493633WTiAea?vhost=travel
…which, as I’ve mentioned, does have a symbol from the armor on it. I like the butt interpretation reg – clever.

digger, I already said that I “did not” find a casque in Roanoke.  I am a procrastinating 17 year old.  I went there, followed the verse and came up with a different location than the previous hunters.
I believe the casque to be buried underneath the stone bench… I didn’t take a picture of the bench, but someone here has.  The white stone bench, which is after circle and square (if we let that mean the sunken garden) if you follow the numbered marker in order.  Under that which may be last touched or first seen standing, could mean… under your butt (which is last touched if you stand up), or first seen standing.  When you first see the bench, you are standing.  The bench is first seen standing.  So under your butt OR under the bench.  Plus, the statue in the P, has its arms outstretched to represent flying, but its wrists are bent down as if it is resting on a bench.  Plus the stomach of the statue matches the symbol on the bench… and in the P, the jewel is underneath the symbol… so I dug down 20 inches underneath the center of the bench, but couldn’t go any farther.
The path that beckons to the beach, the verse says that there is a path that beckons, but it never says to go down it.  You can see the wing from the bench if it was in December, like the Verse says, in December ride the man of oz.  Even in the winter, the digging would be easy, because it is just sand under the bench.
I really think that it’s there!!! Sorry for the wait!!!
-regulus

Thats it?  That is what we have been waiting a week for?  Forest Blight has submitted this possible solution several times over the past several months.  I myself, on May 28, 2008, said that I agreed with Blight on this location.  Or, is this even the bench you are referring to since it does not appear to be stone?  I do not recall any other pics of any other benches posted here…even if there were, why not take pics of your visit?  Would love to see this “symbol” on the bench matching the P.  Would love to see the area around this stone bench.  I’m just not too sure about this visit of yours.  I think pretty much everyone on these boards who has searched/dug at a possible location has submitted photos of their adventure, yet you didn’t think to photograph the bench you dug under because you ‘thought’ it had already been posted?  This just doesn’t seem to add up to me…..
You are a “procrastinating 17 year old” who is able to travel to 2 cities that are 817 miles apart from each other on a whim to search for a possible location of a worthless treasure?  Man, I would love to meet your folks.  I’m sorry, but I just can’t bring myself to believe this.  If I am wrong, I will gladly step aside
and eat my hat….

slappybuns

i have seen the pictures of the bench on here, but i hadn’t realized it was stone.  i do like the riddle part of “under that which may be last touched” , being your butt, lol.
i don’t remember anyone saying the bench had that symbol.
could the cask have sunk lower than 2 or 3 feet?

my guess is it is buried behind as was the cleveland casque. its much easier to dig behind (then under a stone bench)
the newly turned earth would be less noticeable.
The symbols is a clincher for me as the two found ones had an image in the painting that you could reach out and touch from the site of the casque.
Fox, dont be too hard on him, the first time I went to Goldengate park to dig, I forgot my book, broke my camera and didnt even come close and the people I was supposed to meet didnt show and I only had 15minutes available to dig before I had to leave. – very frustrating…. When traveling with family you are at the mercy(whim) of other peoples schedules, they try to humor you, but it only works for so long….
I really think he’s on to it here. I missed the symbol on the bench too.
whether he went or not (im sure he did) I think he’s gotten closer to a casque then I have.
Remember even the guys in Chicago, knew where to dig before digging and almost missed it.
last touched and first seen on a bench would be the back of the bench, you see the back of the bench as you approach it.
when standing you put your hand on the back of the bench to help yourself up (at least those of us with bad knees….)

maltedfalcon

Fox, dont be too hard on him, the first time I went to Goldengate park to dig, I forgot my book, broke my camera and didnt even come close and the people I was supposed to meet didnt show and I only had 15minutes available to dig before I had to leave. – very frustrating…. When traveling with family you are at the mercy(whim) of other peoples schedules, they try to humor you, but it only works for so long….

Yes, I get what you are saying.  My apologies Reg…
[me sheepishly stepping aside]
I forgot all about this bench and yes, I too think that he is onto something here.  Where in the park is this bench?  Can the “wing” be seen from here like the other bench close to the beach?  If so…lets dig all around this thing.

Here is another stone bench in the gardens…
Looks like they may be all over the place.  I wonder if this one has any of our symbols on it as well.  This one is also backed right up to a nice area of plantlife, ideal for cover while digging a hole

Hey all! I went to Roanoke Island to poke around. No finds but it was fun! The bench is sadly not connected to the ground. I was able to easily move it. I did find an odd wooden post buried in the ground near the bench. I’ll post pictures soon’

Unknown

Unknown:
Never trespass or hunt on private property without permission.
Treasure hunting is strictly forbidden in certain areas, such as (but not limited to) National and State Parks, Monuments, Military installations, etc. If you are not absolutely certain of the legality, check before hunting!

Is this true?  Or only in the case of metal detecting?  Why have the park employees who helped with the hunt at this site not mention this?

So finding the casque here is going to be impossible?  I had no idea.

Totally true,
You can’t even letterbox in National parks or State parks,
The official response to letterboxing (
www.letterboxing.org
) is to remove and destroy any letterboxes.
Do not get caught doing any unauthorized digging in a national park.
Its against the law to remove or even move any buried object without permission.
if a casque was in a national park, even if you knew right where it was, the amount of red tape required to get permission to dig it up would make it impossible to get.

I disagree that it is impossible. You just have to build a relationship with the park administration and they are usually happy to help out if you promise not to mar the landscape, and ask them to be present at the dig. From their point of view, BP illegally buried nonbiodegradable garbage on park property, and you’d be helping them locate and remove it.

Forest Blight, that is very encouraging.  Thank you for that perspective.  I wouldn’t want to do anything illegal or harmful to the site and that is a very good idea about asking a staff member to be present.  I do hope you will get to go back and dig again soon.
BTW, I feel pretty confident that the sign in your photo album is indeed the sign I was questioning as missing earlier at the earthworks.  I didn’t realize it is called “Lane’s fort”.

There is considerable inconsistency in online sources on this, but it seems that CRO was carved into a tree near the settlement entrance and CROATOAN was carved into a palisade / fencepost. There is an oral tradition of the tree’s (former) location, but I have not seen any hard evidence. You’d think that if this incredibly historically significant tree survived into modern times — or even if some mischief-maker carved CROATOAN into a tree in the 1930s — there would be some photographic evidence of it, from tourists if not official sources. I have not seen a photograph of this tree. Can anyone find one?

I’m liking this theory more and more, the more I think about it. I really wish I could remember where that patch of garden was located, but I *think* (wishful thinking?) it is near where the path leads from the main part of the Garden to the Gazebo, which overlooks the sound toward Kitty Hawk (a path beckons…). So the idea would be to dig immediately north (i.e., the seaward side) of the former site of the Croatoan tree. X marks the spot. Now all we need is a gold bug and a string.
Thinking practically, we need harder evidence. With photographic evidence of the
exact spot
where the tree in question stood, we’d be in a good position to get permission to dig from the owners.

cw0909

WR,i like the rail idea,
Under that
Which may be last touched
—–
the rail,most people are inclined to,rest their hands,forearms on it
the MAY BE,could be you touched the rail,after you sat,instead of b4
EX.
http://www.louisfuqua.net/leaningonrail.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2FJOB7E0dng/T … G_0260.JPG
Or first seen standing
—–
when you walk up the path,maybe the rail comes into view 1st,as the
bench may have been where the stumps are
EX.
http://www.indonesiateakfurniture.com/t … re-set.jpg
http://img.ehowcdn.com/article-page-mai … 00×800.jpg
utube of island wood @ 3:44,starts view of a rail,maybe the rail
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XlraPcV4Hg4
older imgs i think
http://www.roanokesound.com/photo-galle … oke-island
maybe the grave stone cross looking things mean this
http://www.graveyardoftheatlantic.com/History.htm

Here are my thoughts on the recent posts about the Harriot Trail and the railing at the lookout. I have looked over this area in great detail. The tide comes right up to the edge of the dune at this point. In fact the rail is loose and in danger of falling into to sea! If the casque were north of the rail, it would have been lost to the sea a long time ago. The errosion along the north of the island is very bad. The island was actually a 1/4 of a mile longer, to the north, 400 years ago. As to recent comments about the cemetary in the park. I read the book “The Secret”. On page 219 it specifically states that “any cemetery” does not hold any treasure. That’s a good thing.
I have been busy looking at a mountain of photographs in the park Museum Resource Center. However, so far I have had no luck finding anything dating back to 1981/2 that has shead any light on anything. Keep thinking and I will post anything that might help. Regards, Paul.

welcome to the hunt Nodon…
that is an interesting way to look at that phrase.  i like the sun interaction…. Nice

There is a Baum Site listed on the National Register of Historic Places:
http://www.arch.dcr.state.nc.us/sites/baum.htm

Unknown

Unknown:
Pass two friends of octave
In December
Ride the man of oz
To the land near the window

I have a confirmer that we’re near Kitty Hawk.
You can take a ferry out to Cape Hatteras to begin your travel, and there is a ferry named Baum.
The man who wrote “The Wizard of Oz” was Frank L. Baum.
OK, so the ferry is named after Thomas Baum, but still!  You are riding “the man of oz”, right?
http://www.ncferry.org/FerryVessels/hatteras/
I’m researching the routes now to see if it leads to “the land near the window”.
BTW, North Carolina is a major source of the mineral mica, and its coastline would probably have plenty of driftwood.
EDIT: damn!  This ferry boat was built in 1995. Time to research what routes were in use in the early 80’s. blah.

The first line: Pass two friends of octave
Initially this serves to focus on the Wright Bros. Monument, since the brothers were friends of Octave Chanute of French origin.
Later, at the site of the casque, the words ‘friends’ and ‘octave’ have new application.  Octave means “eighth”, which may be represented as the fraction 1/8th.  Friends in French is the word ‘ami’.  The fraction is a thing smaller than the whole and I suspect it’s interpreted as “small” or “little” which might be an application of the french word ‘petit(e)’.  A petit ami might apply to friends in a romantic relationship.  It is taken to mean “my little friend”.  I don’t know French, so I’m probably butchering this interpretation, sorry.  I’m trying to relate the idea that the USSLS of Chicamacomico as home to the Midgett family and the term ‘petit ami’.  Maybe there’s another way to look at it.  I’m just spouting my ideas.

This is an angle on
Ride the man of oz
line.
These “Cowardly Lions” are on the sides of the Joseph Smith Building, a little ways from the “
two friends of octave
“. “Ride” I believe means travel or travel to. Since the row of lions continues around the building, this could connect us to the next stop/ verse line if we were to follow the lions.
The next line is
To the land near the window
. I haven’t looked into this yet. I’m not sure what is next to the Joseph Smith Building yet. I am having a difficult time getting my bearings in Temple Square. Good maps have been hard to find. If I find a good one, I’ll post it. Is the
window
really a window? I doubt it. But maybe, this simply means the windows between the lions. The more I think about it the better lion windows fit.

I have had no success solving
There’s a road that leads to dark forest
. But, if I may, I’ll jump ahead in the verse a little. For “
With two maps
“
Turtle
found a great match while searching Flickr. I like this one alot. This is the Church Office Building in Temple Square. An interesting point on this building is there seems to be two world maps on two opposite sides of the building. One side is on the street and one side is toward the center of Temple Square. So we have a choice of sides to travel on.
Close Up