Good job.  I haven’t permission to dig in Corbett, but I’m clear to poke a screwdriver in the ground.  They said I could dig if GPR worked, but I’ve read that GPR is less than ideal when looking for a hunk of plastic wrapped ceramic.

erexere

Thanks for sharing the Franklin information.
Here’s the side by side of my earlier post,

That pictures very interesting. Have you found any connections to the SF area?
Only connection I can find which is very obscure is that Melming was a citizen of Bruges, Belgium. MH De Youngs parents were Dutch and French which is on the northern and southern borders of Belgium. So very weak connection.
Couldn’t find any information if the painting was ever displayed in SF, let alone the US.

erexere

Thanks for sharing the Franklin information.
Here’s the side by side
of
my earlier post,

That pictures very interesting. Have you found any connections to the SF area?
Only connection
I
can find which is very obscure is that Melming was a citizen
of
Bruges, Belgium. MH De Youngs parents were Dutch and French which is on the northern and southern borders
of
Belgium. So very weak connection.
Couldn’t find any information if the painting was ever displayed in SF, let alone the US.

The only connection I am suggesting is that the painting could be something discovered in an art, history or religious studies book and serves as a template for the subject of purity or moral conduct. It isnt required that we find find this painting, but it does appeal to the idea that some deeper thematic connections are involved.
The Litany of the Jewels poem gives us the word “chaste’ for the pearl puzzle. I have a theory that each couplet in the lirany contains an important clue or insight on how to approach the solutions. Thinking about moral conduct may have an implications that suit using Alcatraz as the consequence for failing in these morals. Or the analagy of Heavan and Hell might be suitable to incorporating August Rodin’s works at the Palace of the Legion of Honor. I’m referring to the Gates of Hell, which incorporate the Three Shades and Thinker. Also, the air smells sweet could be a good example of a temptation.

The only connection
I
am suggesting is that the painting could be something discovered in an art, history or religious studies book and serves as a template for the subject
of
purity or moral conduct. It isnt required that we find find this painting, but it does appeal to the idea that some deeper thematic connections are involved.
The Litany
of
the Jewels poem gives us the word “chaste’ for the pearl puzzle.
I
have a theory that each couplet in the lirany contains an important clue or insight on how to approach the solutions. Thinking about moral conduct may have an implications that suit using Alcatraz as the consequence for failing in these morals. Or the analagy
of
Heavan and Hell might be suitable to incorporating August Rodin’s works at the Palace
of
the Legion
of
Honor.
I
‘m referring to the Gates
of
Hell, which incorporate the Three Shades and Thinker. Also, the air smells sweet could be a good example
of
a temptation.

The “Fucanglong” dragon is the keeper of treasures, who creates volcanos “inferno?” When reporting to heaven. It’s wingless yet can fly. (V5?)
http://www.mythicalcreaturesguide.com/m/page/Fucanglong
Wikipedia also mentions the Fucanglong posseses a magic or presious pearl as his most important treasure. The pearl will usually be found around the dragons neck.
I would assume this has been mentioned before?

The “Fucanglong” dragon is the keeper
of
treasures, who creates volcanos “inferno?” When reporting to heaven. It’s wingless yet can fly. (V5?)
http://www.mythicalcreaturesguide.com/m/page/Fucanglong
Wikipedia also mentions the Fucanglong posseses a magic or presious pearl as his most important treasure. The pearl will usually be found around the dragons neck.
I
would assume this has been mentioned before?

I dont recall it being mentioned. The importance of the dragon to the puzzle idea is something that took me to some biblical interpretation tho. I’m thinking GoldenGate=Heaven, Dragon=Gate to Hell.

I
dont recall it being mentioned. The importance
of
the dragon to the puzzle idea is something that took me to some biblical interpretation tho.
I
‘m thinking GoldenGate=Heaven, Dragon=Gate to Hell.

Thanks for sharing the Franklin information.
Here’s the side by side of my earlier post,

Thanks for sharing the Franklin information.
Here’s the side by side
of
my earlier post,

http://alumni.berkeley.edu/california-m … -francisco
I love finding things like this.
Mark twain writing about his experience in the 1868 San Francisco earth quake, after that of 1906. It’s drawn to his attention that himself and others were not frightened by the experience. He does compare San Francisco to hell.
This was found after thinking of the 1906 earthquake and subsequent fire, being hellish. Was wondering if it perhaps had a starting point like pudding lane in London.

http://alumni.berkeley.edu/california-m … -francisco
I
love finding things like this.
Mark twain writing about his experience in the 1868 San Francisco earth quake, after that
of
1906. It’s drawn to his attention that himself and others were not frightened by the experience. He does compare San Francisco to hell.
This was found after thinking
of
the 1906 earthquake and subsequent fire, being hellish. Was wondering if it perhaps had a starting point like pudding lane in London.

Ashsimmonds

I would assume this has been mentioned before?

Actually I have never heard that link! good catch!

Ashsimmonds

I
would assume this has been mentioned before?

Actually
I
have never heard that link! good catch!

Welcome to the hunt.
Yes the sharon building was examined in detail
also  in the light of Stone wall’s door.
Actually at the same end of the park in the direction of Kezar stadium
there is a pedestrian underpass (about 50 yards from the sharon building)
that bears a much more accurate likeness to the window in the rock.
Oh yes paddle boats were available in the 80s at stow lake.
Don’t forget the air would smell sweet at the conservatory of flowers
Aces High (Highway 1) crosses GGpark  (on cross over street) the ladies arms are crossed over…
but before you get there you pass prayerbook cross..
(first across)
You are traveling on JFK blvd and you are almost to the location of the Giant Totem pole.
The south side of the park is bordered by Lincoln blvd. (and his silhouette is right there on the south side of the map..)

malted: Do you know if the totem pole is still over at City College, with the Pan-American Unity Mural? I read that they moved it there when they took it out of GGP.

for my theory that doesnt work, it’s totally the wrong direction on 34th
south
of
GGpark.
The RLS connection would need to be in lincoln park where the verse would start.
According to my theory, the verse is totally contained in the treasure ground.
Then again,
I
could be totally wrong.

for my theory that doesnt work, it’s totally the wrong direction on 34th
south of GGpark.
The RLS connection would need to be in lincoln park where the verse would start.
According to my theory, the verse is totally contained in the treasure ground.
Then again, I could be totally wrong.

(
I
don’t see much mileage in it either; just adding it to the catalogue
of
useless information…
)

(I don’t see much mileage in it either; just adding it to the catalogue of useless information…
)

maltedfalcon

I
dont see an RLS connection

Robert Louis Stephenson Elementary School is on 34th.
(Mosaic?)

maltedfalcon

I dont see an RLS connection

Robert Louis Stephenson Elementary School is on 34th.
(Mosaic?)

An idea I’m using to guestimate a position based on recognizing the shape of the woman’s head is very similar to the parking lot shape. I’m still interested in an area off the road that looks out over the Golden Gate Bridge. This is a rough comparison of a bench location to the cliff gate.

http://www.lighthousefriends.com/light.asp?ID=342
Interestingly, a line drawn from this small single-door structure on the side of a cliff known as Diablo Point and c9nne ted to Alcatraz forms a nice intersection with the Golden Gate Bridge that looks like a Cross on the map.
Would it be acceptable to consider the name Diablo as a connection to a Dragon?

I opened the paper this morning to see an article about the restoration of a copy of the Mona Lisa. She reminds me of this image.
It’s an Italian restaurant not far from Portsmouth Square (353 Columbus Ave), though that may be too recent…

Is that the painting thats most famous for its perfect balance or something?

her mysterious smile

wonder if that rose is a symbol for Tokyo Rose, female broadcaster of japanese propaganda?
so it would be around the japanese tea garden and that picket fence that mark twain wrote about

A possible site for “education and justice” may be UC Hastings college of the law in SF. Interestingly it is also associated with a place called Snodgrass hall which was a pen name that Twain used at one time.

maltedfalcon

go back and look through the posts with the word Alcatraz it has been suggested for both over and over and over.

Haha, don’t I know it. I’ve read all verse and image threads from start to finish at least twice. I just think it’s ridiculous.
If we open up the definition of “education” to “my class went there once” then every single landmark in SF fits and the clue becomes meaningless. Not to mention it just doesn’t make sense: No one looks at a prison and thinks “education,” even though there is some kind of education involved with every prison. It’s like looking at the Statue of Liberty and calling it “Liberty and Literacy” just because there’s an inscription at the base with words one can read.
It’s tunneling: Picking a spot and then getting really creative with the verse to fit that spot. And it doesn’t fit the known solves. “Socrates” wasn’t “hey let’s find something that has to do with Socrates” it was literally, “find the word Socrates.” “Beneath two countries” wasn’t “find something with two cultural influences” it was literally “find a spot near areas named for two countries.”
So there it is:
– Way too broad an interpretation
– Doesn’t pass the smell test
– Doesn’t match the known solves
That’s the thing about verse 7. It’s sooooo non-specific you could pick anywhere in SF and interpret the verse to fit there. We need either an image match or the exact words from part of the verse to have a clue I would consider significant.

2fast4u2c

which of the three areas did you decide to dig in?

You mean kingwilson’s 3 areas? None of those. My location is in the northeast area near the Conservatory of Flowers. I found a giant step as someone else said “Look, there’s a giant step!”, but no giant pole. If anyone is interested in meeting me there, I think the best place would be the northeast entrance of the park, Fulton & Stanyan. Earlier this week I spoke to the person in charge of “Section 1” of the park, which is the northeast. His name is Ramon, and was very interested. He will be there to watch the dig.

best of luck…Find That Casque!

Yes indeed! I hope that all my wild theories about Coit Tower were dead wrong and that you unearth that elusive plexiglass cube.
Take pictures!

I think I see what Goonie was talking about. If you go to where “ace is high” is “running north but first across” it’s right down the road form the senior center. Then there’s a large cross there. Where a giant pole could have ever been though, I don’t know. But if Goonie found some of those dress symbols on the cross, it’s a good sign. Not sure if just finding a triangle is sufficient for me. There is a log cabin about 4:00 SE from there, and Twain lived in a log cabin in San Francisco.

Her dress and sleeves make a pretty convincing cross, but then the bottom right of the horizontal part has a weird wiggle in it. Wonder what that’s about?
Here’s the cross in 1950:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com … 7uY8-L.jpg

drunknerds

I think I see what Goonie was talking about. If you go to where “ace is high” is “running north but first across” it’s right down the road form the senior center. Then there’s a large cross there. Where a giant pole could have ever been though, I don’t know. But if Goonie found some of those dress symbols on the cross, it’s a good sign. Not sure if just finding a triangle is sufficient for me. There is a log cabin about 4:00 SE from there, and Twain lived in a log cabin in San Francisco.

Not that it means anything, but I saw a sketch from when they erected the cross, they used a giant pole as rigging:
https://jktlibrary.wordpress.com/2014/1 … francisco/
There also used to be a death ray in the park!
http://sfcitizen.com/blog/2009/07/13/th … gate-park/

drunknerds

Her dress and sleeves make a pretty convincing cross, but then the bottom right of the horizontal part has a weird wiggle in it. Wonder what that’s about?
Here’s the cross in 1950:
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com … 7uY8-L.jpg

I agree that the dress and sleeves make a very nice cross very similar to the style of cross in the park. I’m going to throw something else out there, I also notice that the right hand in the image is pointing to the fourth block on the sleeve of the dress. On Prayer Book Cross there are four blocks with text in them on the face of the cross. Is there any chance that the height of the four blocks on the cross is our giant step? Measure the height of the blocks then take the same distance out from the base of the cross towards Twain’s attention and see where that lands. That’s my best guess.

PB Cross is Celtic though. That’s Boston, isn’t it? I wonder if he’d bury an Asian-themed puzzle casque by a Celtic monument
Also, there’s no way he’d call that a pole. Is there any precedent in the solved ones for him to be that outrageous with a description?

Don’t get me wrong: I think these are good suggestions, just discouraged by lack of pole.

Goonie68

I will post the picture I took later today ….you know work and all get’s in the way!!!

You took a picture of the dragon sculpture again? You are a God among men, even if the pic was of something else.
This Travel channel special has yielded some results, after all: Reading old threads it seems like it took weeks/months to get pictures of a place of interest.

erexere

I see your excitement about the dragon but It doesn’t seem like a pure match.

I’m eager to hear back from the art director of the building. If they say the dragons weren’t there in 1981, I will gain remarkable insight into the minds of all the people who have sworn they had an exact match, but didn’t. So I’m going to learn something, either way.
But man, this is as close a match as I’ve seen for one of these chimera-like images, in terms of replicated details.

Goldengate

I understand why this is a cool and very juicy idea to pursue… but I’m familiar with the post card images you’re referring to and they’re not where you think they are. The post card images were taken from the Roman Bridge looking West toward one of the smaller islands. While the “mainland is to the left, the paths of Strawberry Hill island are seen to the right, and Huntington Falls and the future site of the Pavilion would likewise be on the right side and ahead — across from that smaller island. I’m not the best at posting links, and photos here (I’ll try to fix that) but take a look for yourself on any map. Also, the pole is no longer there.

Dang that was super insightful. Thanks!

If the final solution is something like a flag pole, how do you come up with “a giant step” from the pole to spot where the casque is buried? Looking at Chicago and Cleveland, the spot was specifically marked as where it would be, no guess work.

commish

If the final solution is something like a flag pole, how do you come up with “a giant step” from the pole to spot where the casque is buried? Looking at Chicago and Cleveland, the spot was specifically marked as where it would be, no guess work.

Edit: Oh, I read too deep into your post. The answer is “the final lines of the verse that is one of the leading contenders for this image is “giant pole giant step to the place the casque is kept.”
—
Original Post:
Great question. First of all, my theory relies on “in Jewel’s direction lies an object of Twain’s affection” right before “giant pole giant step to the place the casque is kept” meaning “stand at the pole and take a big step towards Fulton street.” Poles often have wider bases underground, so you usually should take a step away from them if you want to dig down 3 feet.
Second, I wish so hard “no guess work” was true for the solves, but the opposite actually happened : Cleveland took all day because the clues seemed to lead to the wrong side of the wall from where the casque was buried and Chicago took over a year, iirc, with the author himself stating to the hunters that he doesn’t see why they haven’t found it after digging a trench long enough to win WWI

drunknerds

I’m eager to hear back from the art director of the building. If they say the dragons weren’t there in 1981, I will gain remarkable insight into the minds of all the people who have sworn they had an exact match, but didn’t. So I’m going to learn something, either way.

I would characterize the creatures above the door as phoenixes, a creature frequently used to symbolize the city’s “rising from the ashes” after the 1906 earthquake, and a symbol used by the SFPD.
Here is a 1941 photograph of the building as a police academy, with the phoenix decorations faintly visible:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gtGoPK … sp=sharing
Would be very interested to learn if your senior center contact has exterior photographs of the building from the 80s or 90s

Goldengate

I understand why this is a cool and very juicy idea to pursue… but I’m familiar with the post card images you’re referring to and they’re not where you think they are. The post card images were taken from the Roman Bridge looking West toward one of the smaller islands. While the “mainland” is to the left, the paths of Strawberry Hill Island are seen to the right, and Huntington Falls and the future site of the Pavilion would likewise be on the right side and ahead — across from that smaller island. I’m not the best at posting links, and photos here (I’ll try to fix that) but take a look for yourself on any map. Also, the pole is no longer there.

That’s why I said it was speculative. Although I would be interested in knowing when the pole went away, wherever it was located.
I still like the Twain – Stowe connection.

treetops

Just to be clear, my “contact” is “the email I found on the senior center’s website.” Altho4ugh, I’m really good at two things. One of which is eliciting info from people through niceness.
Unfortunately, the other thing I’m good at is “hyping this thing into epic proportions beyond realistic expectations.”
Also, It’s so hard to tell if a match is exact or not, because a lot of these images seem to have taken a statue and transformed many elements. So I’m stuck with “This phoenix is obviously not this dragon/serpent thing, but they have like 3-5 unmistakable similarities”

treetops

I would characterize the creatures above the door as phoenixes, a creature frequently used to symbolize the city’s “rising from the ashes” after the 1906 earthquake, and a symbol used by the SFPD.
Here is a 1941 photograph of the building as a police academy, with the phoenix decorations faintly visible:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gtGoPK … sp=sharing
Would be very interested to learn if your senior center contact has exterior photographs of the building from the 80s or 90s

Here’s a great image of it:
http://sflib1.sfpl.org:82/record=b1033979
. Click “View Image” for a very big version of it. Doesn’t look like it has moved since when it was a police station.

treetops

I would characterize the creatures above the door as phoenixes, a creature frequently used to symbolize the city’s “rising from the ashes” after the 1906 earthquake, and a symbol used by the SFPD.
Here is a 1941 photograph of the building as a police academy, with the phoenix decorations faintly visible:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1gtGoPK … sp=sharing
Would be very interested to learn if your
senior
center contact has exterior photographs of the building from the 80s or 90s

Here’s a great image of it:
http://sflib1.sfpl.org:82/record=b1033979
. Click “View Image” for a very big version of it. Doesn’t look like it has moved since when it was a police station.

Goldengate

I really hate to be the guy who shoots down cool connections (and they are cool), but:
1) The lake was not named after Harriet Beecher Stowe
2) The lake is “Stow” Lake — no “e”
Again, a great and inventive idea — but speaking for myself, It feels like a pretty big reach. Twain is / was America’s humorist and chronicler in chief. He was interested in everybody and everything. You can throw a dart and find something that had Twain’s attention at one point or another, which is why I think the clue is something that’s a little more accessible on the surface than something like a Stowe connection.

Dude, I think you are being too literal. There are way more obscure references and clues in these puzzles. Stowe and Stow are almost a 1 to 1 match in my book, but I didn’t claim the lake was named after her. Twain and Stowe lived in houses next to each other and were friends. They admired each others work. I could also see the Pioneer Cabin (same area in the park) working as a reference, since Stowe wrote Uncle Tom’s Cabin and Twain responded with Huck Finn.
Could the Twain reference point to something else? Yes. I even made mention previously about Twain being into Hasheesh candy from Richards and Co. on the northwest corner of Clay and Sansome streets as a possible directional clue.
https://www.thecannabist.co/2015/09/18/ … nia/41175/
I’m throwing stuff out there that I haven’t really come across, to get my brain thinking, but more important, for maybe someone else to make a leap of intuition.

Goldengate

Gman
I’m all for making leaps! And these are GREAT and INSPIRATIONAL — truly. I just don’t feel they would be reasonably sourced in 1982. Preiss in his own words thought these puzzles would be solved in a MONTH so I’m not being overly literal, just realistic. Google is a magical tool, but it didn’t exist in 82. Sourcing Twain and Stowe’s relationship, which would have taken far more than encyclopedia-deep research and matching it to Stow Lake, would have been a landslide of work.
Not saying it’s not possible, but I went to college just prior to the internet and making a Twain / Stowe connection out of the mounds of Twain research in actual books, while hilighting dozens of other thin connections like his observations on weed, is just unlikely.
I’m looking for likely solutions that are complex, but not several times removed from what most would commonly relate to Twain.
All that said, I’ve always thought the Pioneer Cabin was a possible hit. Not because of Stowe, but Calaveras County. — BTW, I’ve looked at probably every frog statue in Golden Gate park as well for the same reason, LOL!

I hear what you are saying, I’m all about these puzzles being relatively straightforward. However, I disagree on Stowe. She was WAY more famous than the Abroad in America authors referenced in Verse 2. Here’s a quick article and I think almost everyone had read Uncle Tom’s Cabin. Requisite reading for high school.
https://connecticuthistory.org/the-most … the-world/
https://connecticuthistory.org/where-mr … am-houses/
Anyway, there is probably some very simple solution that is just escaping everyone, probably due to time or missing features on the ground.

I agree, but on the other hand BP was a literary guy. I think he expected people to be very well read and make some of these connections. Also, using the tools from that period, we had encyclopedias, the library, etc.
I did say this when I joined the forum: If it was me in 1980 and I was traveling to a distant city, I would go to the tourism office, the library, talk to the locals. Find out what was important.
It might help to talk to some old timers in the location, see what they remember. These puzzle probably have to be solved on the ground at the location.
I think we can only get so far with the Internet, then some people need to talk to people, walk the paths and put a shovel in the ground.

drunknerds

Edit: Oh, I read too deep into your post. The answer is “the final lines of the verse that is one of the leading contenders for this image is “giant pole giant step to the place the casque is kept.”
—
Original Post:
Great question. First of all, my theory relies on “in Jewel’s direction lies an object of Twain’s affection” right before “giant pole giant step to the place the casque is kept” meaning “stand at the pole and take a big step towards Fulton street.” Poles often have wider bases underground, so you usually should take a step away from them if you want to dig down 3 feet.
Second, I wish so hard “no guess work” was true for the solves, but the opposite actually happened : Cleveland took all day because the clues seemed to lead to the wrong side of the wall from where the casque was buried and Chicago took over a year, iirc, with the author himself stating to the hunters that he doesn’t see why they haven’t found it after digging a trench long enough to win WWI

I wouldn’t say they are easy to find. After 35 years, there have been two found. At this rate it will take 210 years to find the remaining treasures, but once the Chicago team and Cleveland team put the clues in the correct order and using hind site we can see Preiss did have them fairly well marked.
It just seems to me that Preiss wouldn’t leave it up to you taking a giant step out compared to mine, compared to someone else’s step. Those could easy vary enough in distance to leading a person to miss the spot. I have to believe Preiss wanted these found, if nothing more, so He could do it again. It seems to me that there would need to be some indicator at the site as what the distance would actually be to start digging.

Unknown

Unknown:
It really can be that simple.

Milwaukee is that simple. So is Roanoke. And St. Augustine. Collectively, we are 0-653* for holes dug in those three cities. So while it can be that simple, it probably isn’t.
*more or less

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/26197447338/in/dateposted-public/
Here is the picture I took of the senior building. If you zoom in you will see a good view of the Phoenix. There also appears to have what looks like a rose in the center of the Phoenix.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/26197447338/in/dateposted-public/
Here is the picture I took of the
senior
building. If you zoom in you will see a good view of the Phoenix. There also appears to have what looks like a rose in the center of the Phoenix.

Better close up.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40112003722/in/dateposted-public/

Goonie68

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/26197447338/in/dateposted-public/
Here is the picture I took of the senior building. If you zoom in you will see a good view of the Phoenix. There also appears to have what looks like a rose in the center of the Phoenix.

Is there any way to tell how old they are? Also, is that a lion in the stone plaque above the arch?

Goonie68

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/26197447338/in/dateposted-public/
Here is the picture I took of the
senior
building. If you zoom in you will see a good view of the Phoenix. There also appears to have what looks like a rose in the center of the Phoenix.

Is there any way to tell how old they are? Also, is that a lion in the stone plaque above the arch?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/28364786499/in/dateposted-public/
Looks like

Found this from 1941 or thereabouts. Looks like the design was there or similar at least.
https://calisphere.org/item/4fee6001c15 … 403a6ba33/

Yes from what I can tell it was, I believe I read someone is calling the parks and recs and inquiring about the iron work above

Goonie68

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/28364786499/in/dateposted-public/
Looks like

Like a lion, but also a green man.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/28364915449/in/dateposted-public/
https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/40112224502/in/dateposted-public/
Bars on the windows.

gManTexas

Found this from 1941 or thereabouts. Looks like the design was there or similar at least.
https://calisphere.org/item/4fee6001c15 … 403a6ba33/

Whoa, and although the windows don’t have bars here, the door sure looks like it does. Plus they are thin and really close, an unusual design from the normal bars that appear on like 70% of SF windows
If we can find out if the door had bars in 1980, we’d have 2-3 amazing matches right there in the same place.

commish

I wouldn’t say they are easy to find. After 35 years, there have been two found. At this rate it will take 210 years to find the remaining treasures, but once the Chicago team and Cleveland team put the clues in the correct order and using hind site we can see Preiss did have them fairly well marked.
It just seems to me that Preiss wouldn’t leave it up to you taking a giant step out compared to mine, compared to someone else’s step. Those could easy vary enough in distance to leading a person to miss the spot. I have to believe Preiss wanted these found, if nothing more, so He could do it again. It seems to me that there would need to be some indicator at the site as what the distance would actually be to start digging.

But that’s what he did: The Chicago casque was a few giant steps from the fencepost. If there was ever a tree marker, he would have had to bury it a step away to avoid roots.
If you want to bury something at a monument/flagpole , you’d also want to be a few feet away to avoid hitting the base or destabilizing the structure

Goonie68

https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/26197447338/in/dateposted-public/
Here is the picture I took of the senior building. If you zoom in you will see a good view of the Phoenix. There also appears to have what looks like a rose in the center of the Phoenix.

Fantastic work!

Two things that just occurred to me:
1) Is this phoenix ironwork unique to the old police academy, or were similar pieces found over the entrances to other San Francisco police buildings?
2) At the point when Preiss would have been in the park, would there have been any indication that this used to be the police academy? I’m thinking plaques, historical markers, etc. If there were mentions of the old police academy, could this be a candidate for “Education and Justice” in one place?

Wow, education and justice: a policy academy
Great work treetops and goldengate!

If the police station was open 24 hours, Preiss couldn’t have just stood there digging, unnoticed.

Goldengate

If anything, it’s a way marker, but nothing about it (to me) makes sense as the location of the casque.

after education and justice in the verse is “sounds from the sky near ace is high,” so if we start walking from the senior center west along Fulton towards hwy 1…
Then we run north(not sure about the across: the windmill we pass?) we hit Sutro fields park

Whoops I confused Great Highway with highway 1.
Too bad, I really wanted to explore a new park

Goonie68

usually the loops are the same when writing an 8 ? Just my opinion..

Look at that 8 the upper loop is smaller…

My argument for the # 36 is that, in my theory, My starting point is 37 ave, senior center, from there in the verse it does not tell you which way to go left, right, up, down, sideways? 36 avenue is one block down from the senior center and it is the entry way to the park. It make sense to me that this clue gives you a direct place to enter the park.

Goonie68

My argument for the # 36 is that, in my theory, My starting point is 37 ave, senior center, from there in the verse it does not tell you which way to go left, right, up, down, sideways? 36 avenue is one block down from the senior center and it is the entry way to the park. It make sense to me that this clue gives you a direct place to enter the park.

Logically that makes sense, but I’m sure the 38 is the lat/lon,
However isn’t that the entrance to chain of lakes drive?
When I worked that area here is the link I thought connected it for me. This is from a 1982 tourist map of ggpark.
The area has been bulldozed and changed a lot but back then…

The Senior Center still doesn’t interest me. I think people are shoehorning. We all have that tendency, so I understand, it’s just nothing really seems to fit in a definitive way. Making things work to fit a desirable outcome is a waste of time (unless it just happens to be right).
I’ve scrapped most all of my notions about how SF was planned. What if the Trans America Pyramid is the starting point? Heading west takes you directly through a Chinatown district. I like the road name that takes you on that path: Clay St. An interesting footnote might be made about ancient pottery made from clay. One of the first methods to make pottery involved rolling the clay into snake like coils as opposed to more modern methods like using a wheel. I even wondered if the clock on the center of the table is a subtle reference to a potters wheel, in which case the clay would be in the middle so it could rotate evenly. Looking at the interesting grayish textured pattern of the dragon on the woman’s robe, it also reminds me of working on a block of clay.
So taking Clay St. to it’s termination we find ourselves at Arguello St. Nearby is the Emanu-El temple. I feel like this is a good track, that is IF we are meant to start at the TAP building similar to how Cleveland seemed to have the Terminal Tower in mind as a route anchor.
So what’s the best next step from Arguello St.?

maltedfalcon

Damn thing will probably turn out to be another of JJP’s drawings that Byron scribbled over.

erexere

The Senior Center still doesn’t interest me. I think people are shoehorning. We all have that tendency, so I understand, it’s just nothing really seems to fit in a definitive way. Making things work to fit a desirable outcome is a waste of time (unless it just happens to be right).
I’ve scrapped most all of my notions about how SF was planned. What if the Trans America Pyramid is the starting point? Heading west takes you directly through a Chinatown district. I like the road name that takes you on that path: Clay St. An interesting footnote might be made about ancient pottery made from clay. One of the first methods to make pottery involved rolling the clay into snake like coils as opposed to more modern methods like using a wheel. I even wondered if the clock on the center of the table is a subtle reference to a potters wheel, in which case the clay would be in the middle so it could rotate evenly. Looking at the interesting grayish textured pattern of the dragon on the woman’s robe, it also reminds me of working on a block of clay.
So taking Clay St. to it’s termination we find ourselves at Arguello St. Nearby is the Emanu-El temple. I feel like this is a good track, that is IF we are meant to start at the TAP building similar to how Cleveland seemed to have the Terminal Tower in mind as a route anchor.
So what’s the best next step from Arguello St.?

Has anyone sat down with a street map of SF and Image 1 to match the patterns in the dragon’s body to city blocks in SF? There HAS to be a reason that the blocks are varying sizes and some do not line up. For example, if I look at the wing of the dragon that is fully exposed, I see (possibly mirrored) the area labeled Rincon Hill down to South of Market with the bend to Mission Dist. Would this place the dragon over Chinatown? Is the Yin Yang symbol over Chinatown? I don’t know if I have the patience and I certainly don’t have a 1982 AAA map.
What is intriguing is the first big coil of the tail and the section just below it between the X and A in the image. There are small blocks and large ones. Like I said, there has to be significance to this and may give us some additional clues.

gManTexas

Has anyone sat down with a street map of SF and Image 1 to match the patterns in the dragon’s body to city blocks in SF? There HAS to be a reason that the blocks are varying sizes and some do not line up. For example, if I look at the wing of the dragon that is fully exposed, I see (possibly mirrored) the area labeled Rincon Hill down to South of Market with the bend to Mission Dist. Would this place the dragon over Chinatown? Is the Yin Yang symbol over Chinatown? I don’t know if I have the patience and I certainly don’t have a 1982 AAA map.
What is intriguing is the first big coil of the tail and the section just below it between the X and A in the image. There are small blocks and large ones. Like I said, there has to be significance to this and may give us some additional clues.

Yes there is a part that matches over by coit tower it is in the archives here somewhere.

An interesting association for the number 38 is the much decorated USS San Francisco (CA-38) which suffered no damage during the events of the Attack on Pearl Harbor.

Thanks, Malted. Great stuff, as always.

maltedfalcon

I believe probing is useless, That doesn’t mean I haven’t tried it.
The only time probing would be useful is if the casque is intact and in its box, and the soil was extremely soft.
Only then could you probe enough that you could determine the size and shape of the target (square) 5×5 inches.
anything else requires you to dig to be sure. and if the box is broken all bets are off.
IF the soil has any kind of strength it would be possible to push a probe through the casque without realizing it was there.
Still this is actually the kind of scenario I created casque 13 to try out for sure…

I don’t have my data with my, and this is probably just retreading, but I believe the only thing that would damage a casque without direct contact is a freeze. SF’s had a few freezes in the last 35 years. Still, it couldn’t have been as hard as cleveland (and the cleveland casque had wayyyyy less surrounding soil to absorb the freeze), and they still pulled like 2/3 of that plexiglass box out intact.

drunknerds

but I believe the only thing that would damage a casque without direct contact is a freeze.

Nothing says no direct contact.
a trencher,
an earthquake,
surface pressure (a vehicle driving over)
a backhoe,
new construction
roots,
gophers
a gardner.
Being a casque in the ground is a dangerous thing…

Matledfalcon have you dug anywhere near Shakespeare’s garden, not in the garden but maybe area’s around it? Just curious?

Goonie68

Matledfalcon have you dug anywhere near Shakespeare’s garden, not in the garden but maybe area’s around it? Just curious?

rose garden yes, shakespeare garden no
Also remember in 2005 major changes in that area.

See that mound in the lower right of the corner? that is all the sidewalks and walkways in the area. They were plowed up and replaced in 2005 to make them all ADA accessible, that includes the walkways through the Shakespeare garden and all the areas in front of the band shell So if the casque was there, in this picture it is probably in the lower right hand corner… LOL

Thanks for your insight! Very valuable!!!!

Disregard the FB post, I got my answer. Thanks!

I can’t seem to see any threads on the number “38” that number within the hair. Any theory’s that it could be a 36?

Goonie68

I can’t seem to see any threads on the number “38” that number within the hair. Any theory’s that it could be a 36?

sure looks like an 8 to me.

So no really hard evidence that 38 is a clue? I mean the coordinates are 37 122 and 38 does not show up? The reason I say this is that the loop on the top is smaller then the bottom loop usually the loops are the same when writing an 8 ? Just my opinion..

Hey everyone, first time posting here. I’m glad to see so much attention paid to the Legion of honor area as I had it in my solution. However I was working backwards. I had started at the sutro baths then worked my way to the LOH, from there I was convinced we needed to move towards GGP somehow but I couldn’t rectify it. Working away from GGP makes so much more sense.
Anyway, the reason I’m posting is because I think I’ve hit a match for the shape in the cliff.
http://landscapevoice.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/08/8173941411_15c87d1a9d_b.jpg
If you look at the opening that lines up with the shoreline you get a highly similar shape to the one over our girls right shoulder. More over, I’ve looked at a ton of pictures of that thing over the past few hours and I’m convinced its shape has been changed over the years due to pieces breaking off. Regardless, not a perfect match but really damned close.
I’m in San Jose so I may go take a look this weekend and see what I can figure out up close.

GG, Thanks for joining in!
I think it’s a big plus that you are remembering how things use to be in SF. Things seem more and more out of sync with the paintings as the landmarks change with the passage of time.
Do you have any theory on a verse for this image?
I’ve been working verse7 for SF. When I get to the line about a “giant step” I wonder if it has something to do with the Baseball team. Baseball steps might be those square bases that players step on, the five sided home plate or up on the pictures mound?

FYI I’m on the ground in SF if anyone needs a location checked out or scouted.

Mark Parry

It is the language filter filtering out the work T W A T sorry it does offend some people.
Mark

I can see why some might find the word T**t offensive. I cannot understand how the word Salt WATER can be offensive. Though I am aware that computers are only as smart as their programmers. GIGO, as they say.
Sheesh.
c

Mark Parry

It is the language filter filtering out the work T W A T sorry it does offend some people.
Mark

that is hilarious…  and to think, I had already made flight reservations for a quick visit to the Sal Pregnant Fish Marsh.

Too funny, fox.

So T^^@ means “pregnant fish?”
ck

Not sure how much of a connection to the Actual teams……but if you look at the bottom 3 loops on the dragons tail. The light blue shape in the loops resemble a diamond, the Big Rec ball field there are 2 baseball diamond’s that line up with the tail. The first loop is larger then the second loop which lines up with the way both fields are shaped. Now here the interesting thing is that the 3rd loop at the end of the tail has a small round shape in the middle….pearl??? Maybe in “jewels direction”
?? I guess it’s one more rabbit hole??? GRRR!

Not sure how much
of
a connection to the Actual teams……but if you look at the bottom 3 loops on the dragons tail. The light blue shape in the loops resemble a diamond, the Big Rec ball field there are 2 baseball diamond’s that line up with the tail. The first loop is larger then the second loop which lines up with the way both fields are shaped. Now here the interesting thing is that the 3rd loop at the end
of
the tail has a small round shape in the middle….pearl??? Maybe in “jewels direction”
??
I
guess it’s one more rabbit hole??? GRRR!

I still say it’s just taking a giant step away from some pole, to avoid digging at its base.

I
still say it’s just taking a giant step away from some pole, to avoid digging at its base.

treetops

-if Chicago and Cleveland are models, the casque is buried in Golden Gate Park, within 1000 feet of the senior center

I hope ~1,000 feet is correct, f only because it gives us more room to find exact matches. Problem is, it’s all trees. Spreckles lake is near, and the Bison Paddock/Dog training place are kinda near, but I’m pretty sure they are more than 1,000 feet away.
Might be fun to poke around back of the senior center for art/ There are some signs tacked to trees that don’t look interesting, but who knows.

treetops

-if Chicago and Cleveland are models, the casque is buried in Golden Gate Park, within 1000 feet
of
the senior center

I
hope ~1,000 feet is correct, f only because it gives us more room to find exact matches. Problem is, it’s all trees. Spreckles lake is near, and the Bison Paddock/Dog training place are kinda near, but
I
‘m pretty sure they are more than 1,000 feet away.
Might be fun to poke around back
of
the senior center for art/ There are some signs tacked to trees that don’t look interesting, but who knows.

Yep, almost all of the park’s sculptures and monuments are packed into its east end. The area to the west is dedicated to recreational activities, lakes and open spaces until you get to the windmills. Most of those recreational areas have, or had, associated clubhouses that might be of interest. I recently looked around inside the model yacht clubhouse at Spreckels Lake. There were some beautiful model boats and historical photos/info about the club, but nothing that jumped out as revelatory. The fly casting pool and clubhouse are tempting for some kind of riff on “giant pole”, but nothing’s gelling for me there either. Nearby pentanque are golf areas are likewise tempting for connections with the moons in the sky of image 1.
From what I’ve read, the area behind the senior center used to hold some sort of senior fitness course, presumably similar to the Par Courses in many city parks. It’s currently a parking lot with off-path areas and picnic benches nearby.
The region of the Richmond District north of the park isn’t terribly promising either: lots of square residential blocks, a few churches and schools. I believe the areas that show up as tiny parks on a map are actually school playgrounds or public basketball or tennis courts.

Yep, almost all
of
the park’s sculptures and monuments are packed into its east end. The area to the west is dedicated to recreational activities, lakes and open spaces until you get to the windmills. Most
of
those recreational areas have, or had, associated clubhouses that might be
of
interest.
I
recently looked around inside the model yacht clubhouse at Spreckels Lake. There were some beautiful model boats and historical photos/info about the club, but nothing that jumped out as revelatory. The fly casting pool and clubhouse are tempting for some kind
of
riff on “giant pole”, but nothing’s gelling for me there either. Nearby pentanque are golf areas are likewise tempting for connections with the moons in the sky
of
image 1.
From what
I
‘ve read, the area behind the senior center used to hold some sort
of
senior fitness course, presumably similar to the Par Courses in many city parks. It’s currently a parking lot with off-path areas and picnic benches nearby.
The region
of
the Richmond District north
of
the park isn’t terribly promising either: lots
of
square residential blocks, a few churches and schools.
I
believe the areas that show up as tiny parks on a map are actually school playgrounds or public basketball or tennis courts.

When I was at the senior center, I did check all around the building. back, side, I didn’t find anything that would of lead me in any direction. There is a small parking with a lamp post on the edge of the lot, but the rest is landscaped with hedge’s and grass. The building it’s self does not have any markings in the rear. There are no visual markers that lead you anywhere from the back.

When
I
was at the senior center,
I
did check all around the building. back, side,
I
didn’t find anything that would
of
lead me in any direction. There is a small parking with a lamp post on the edge
of
the lot, but the rest is landscaped with hedge’s and grass. The building it’s self does not have any markings in the rear. There are no visual markers that lead you anywhere from the back.

JoshCornell1

i def got it.

Yup, just like you got Houston, New Orleans, and St Augustine. Oh wait, you didn’t.

JoshCornell1

i
def got it.

Yup, just like you got Houston, New Orleans, and St Augustine. Oh wait, you didn’t.

Unknown

Unknown:
When I was at the senior center,

Isn’t the Senior Center a building? Might be instructive to look at the other buildings in the puzzle, and see how they fit into the solve, or proposed solve. Here’s a hint: None of them are within 1,000 yards of the proposed dig spots, and most are miles away.

Unknown

Unknown:
When
I
was at the senior center,

Isn’t the Senior Center a building? Might be instructive to look at the other buildings in the puzzle, and see how they fit into the solve, or proposed solve. Here’s a hint: None
of
them are within 1,000 yards
of
the proposed dig spots, and most are miles away.

catherwood

(yes, we really are having more of a discussion about the verse now, in the image thread, oh well)
I like wondering about the local team, the San Francisco Giants, and what kind of deliberate double meaning is being used here. It is unlikely to be a coincidence, but it would have been risky to use something as ephemeral as a banner or sign as a clue. However, is there such a measurement as a “step” in baseball? Taking a “Giant’s step” could be the distance from home plate to first base, for example.

In baseball, the pitcher in his motion throwing the ball, he takes a giant step towards home plate before he releases the ball. The place where the pitcher stands is called the “Mound” or the “Hill” I believe that step is a steep, or hill. I have outlined this in my research but not made it public….because well….. I also believe that there are connections between NY and SF. Both Cites had baseball teams the NY Giants (NY) and SF Giants (SF). Also Priess lived in both NY and the bay area for a period of time while he went to Stanford. If anyone would like know more about my research I can PM you.

catherwood

(yes, we really are having more
of
a discussion about the verse now, in the image thread, oh well)
I
like wondering about the local team, the San Francisco Giants, and what kind
of
deliberate double meaning is being used here. It is unlikely to be a coincidence, but it would have been risky to use something as ephemeral as a banner or sign as a clue. However, is there such a measurement as a “step” in baseball? Taking a “Giant’s step” could be the distance from home plate to first base, for example.

In baseball, the pitcher in his motion throwing the ball, he takes a giant step towards home plate before he releases the ball. The place where the pitcher stands is called the “Mound” or the “Hill”
I
believe that step is a steep, or hill.
I
have outlined this in my research but not made it public….because well…..
I
also believe that there are connections between NY and SF. Both Cites had baseball teams the NY Giants (NY) and SF Giants (SF). Also Priess lived in both NY and the bay area for a period
of
time while he went to Stanford. If anyone would like know more about my research
I
can PM you.

Goonie68

In baseball, the pitcher in his motion throwing the ball, he takes a giant step towards home plate before he releases the ball. The place where the pitcher stands is called the “Mound” or the “Hill” I believe that step is a steep, or hill. I have outlined this in my research but not made it public….because well….. I also believe that there are connections between NY and SF. Both Cites had baseball teams the NY Giants (NY) and SF Giants (SF). Also Priess lived in both NY and the bay area for a period of time while he went to Stanford. If anyone would like know more about my research I can PM you.

I’d entertain that notion. PM it me.

Goonie68

In baseball, the pitcher in his motion throwing the ball, he takes a giant step towards home plate before he releases the ball. The place where the pitcher stands is called the “Mound” or the “Hill”
I
believe that step is a steep, or hill.
I
have outlined this in my research but not made it public….because well…..
I
also believe that there are connections between NY and SF. Both Cites had baseball teams the NY Giants (NY) and SF Giants (SF). Also Priess lived in both NY and the bay area for a period
of
time while he went to Stanford. If anyone would like know more about my research
I
can PM you.

I
‘d entertain that notion. PM it me.

Euhirudinea

I’m not a fan of the “find the correct (vertical) giant pole in SF and you’ve solved the puzzle” school of thought, but if that turns out to be the solution, the “giant step” would presumably be in the direction of the “object of Twain’s attention”. If a step is about 30″, then a “giant step” would be in the 3-5 foot range, which would narrow down the dig spot considerably. Unless it is a pier sunk directly into the ground, a “giant” pole would probably have a significant concrete foundation, so moving the digger a few feet away from the base makes sense.

I’m not sure if I was suggesting I was a fan of the “find the correct (vertical) giant pole in SF and you’ve solved the puzzle” school of thought or not. I was throwing around some ideas. However, I also know that my knowledge of the specific areas being discussed as it relates to SF are far surpassed by many in this thread. I am very open to a larger-than-life statue of someone of Polish decent as the giant Pole.
Per the above, and my respect for those who know what’s what to the finest detail in SF, I don’t want to start asking dumb questions about the totem pole in question that I will look up later, but this previously posted picture demonstrates the overall concept I was duscussing:

Unknown

Unknown:
I’m not sure if I was suggesting I was a fan of the “find the correct (vertical) giant pole in SF and you’ve solved the puzzle” school of thought or not.

Sorry MB, I did not mean to suggest that you did. I was trying to address the problem of “horizontal direction” in the verse, and got ahead of myself. Using TOoTA (whatever that is) as a directional indicator is one way address the problem of which side of the pole (whatever it is) to dig on, and that’s really the only point I was trying to make.

Hey all, new here, but I come from Something Awful where there are a lot of similar theories and a crazy huge thread.
I agree that the GGP map is the iconic image. For me, however, the iconic image was the representation of the Huntington falls. I first saw the picture a few years ago, and I thought “Hey, those rocks look a ton like the Huntington Falls. Nah, it’s just an inkblot and I’m seeing what I want to see.” It wasn’t until today that I realized I should’ve given more credit to what I saw. San Francisco native by the way, although I now live 500 miles south in Pasadena
I don’t think this is one of those “stand where you can see all the landmarks” puzzle. Not that anyone suggested it was, but its just impossible to see anything in GGP with all the growth, unless you’re on top of Strawberry hill. So we need to find something to give us specifics. So far, that has been in the image & the verse (Seek the columns for the search + the picture of the wall, Fence and Fixture + the picture of the post.) So, I’d like to explore what elements of the picture can also be found in the verse, and vice-versa. Not that EVERY picture has the same rules, but so far two have had them and they’ve BOTH been the final piece to the location, so that’s what I’m working on.
So… can anyone relate anything in verse 7 to the picture? That’s what I’ve been doing this afternoon.
Glad to be here, thanks for this site.

WhiteRabbit

I
‘m sorry that you can’t be persuaded to broaden the search.
I
really don’t think this was the spot. But well done for breaking soil. We’ll find one yet.

Seriously thats funny,
I
will consider any and all possibilities,
I
always say until we find a casque one theory is as good as another.
I
honestly cannot say with certainty which verse goes with image 1, so there are lots
of
possibilities. and
I
have been really really trying to fit all kinds
of
other places into the image.
In the meantime,
I
tried and tried everything in GGpark for years. then
I
tried Portsmouth Square, Coit Tower, Fort Point, Lafayette Park
Alta Plaza Park, Alamo Square, The columbarium, Buena Vista Park, Twin Peaks, Grand View. Sutro Heights, Lands end, China Beach, Cliff House, Ft Mason, Chrissy Field. Treasure Island and Yerba Buena.
I
have been on the ground in every one
of
these spots with my book checking for possibilites.
I
suspect the image has an iconic image and indicates the path to the treasure ground.
I
know the image will contain images that are viewable from the treasure ground.
Lincoln Park has it all:
A Lincoln – his face is left
of
the lady in the rocks
B The Barred arched door
of
the legion
of
honor – above the lady
C The statue
of
El Cid. – left
of
the lady
D The shape
of
the parking lot – The lady’s head
E The shape
of
the path next to the Parking Lot – the part in her hair
F The fountain (table top)
F Its on 34th ave – her fingers point to 3 and 4 when mirrored.
G Its in the Lat/Lon – in her hair.
Also fun to note if  you mirror the park image, then Lincoln’s face  is on the North Side
of
the Park- Lincoln park is north
of
GGpark, Lincoln Ave is south.
However if you have a better possibility
I
am open to going to look.

WhiteRabbit

I’m sorry that you can’t be persuaded to broaden the search. I really don’t think this was the spot. But well done for breaking soil. We’ll find one yet.

Seriously thats funny, I will consider any and all possibilities, I always say until we find a casque one theory is as good as another.
I honestly cannot say with certainty which verse goes with image 1, so there are lots of possibilities. and I have been really really trying to fit all kinds of other places into the image.
In the meantime, I tried and tried everything in GGpark for years. then I tried Portsmouth Square, Coit Tower, Fort Point, Lafayette Park
Alta Plaza Park, Alamo Square, The columbarium, Buena Vista Park, Twin Peaks, Grand View. Sutro Heights, Lands end, China Beach, Cliff House, Ft Mason, Chrissy Field. Treasure Island and Yerba Buena.  I have been on the ground in every one of these spots with my book checking for possibilites.
I suspect the image has an iconic image and indicates the path to the treasure ground.
I know the image will contain images that are viewable from the treasure ground.
Lincoln Park has it all:
A Lincoln – his face is left of the lady in the rocks
B The Barred arched door of the legion of honor – above the lady
C The statue of El Cid. – left of the lady
D The shape of the parking lot – The lady’s head
E The shape of the path next to the Parking Lot – the part in her hair
F The fountain (table top)
F Its on 34th ave – her fingers point to 3 and 4 when mirrored.
G Its in the Lat/Lon – in her hair.
Also fun to note if  you mirror the park image, then Lincoln’s face  is on the North Side of the Park- Lincoln park is north of GGpark, Lincoln Ave is south.
However if you have a better possibility I am open to going to look.

MF – respect, you’ve obviously done much more than anyone else to further the SF puzzle and others.
I
‘d never have heard
of
Portsmouth Square if you hadn’t told me about it.
You know what
I
think about this puzzle.
I
‘ve posted it repeatedly.
http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc … ftrail.pdf
I
didn’t know you’d checked out Lafayette.
I
‘d like to see more info and photos about the place.
Peace.

MF – respect, you’ve obviously done much more than anyone else to further the SF puzzle and others. I’d never have heard of Portsmouth Square if you hadn’t told me about it.
You know what I think about this puzzle. I’ve posted it repeatedly.
http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc … ftrail.pdf
I didn’t know you’d checked out Lafayette. I’d like to see more info and photos about the place.
Peace.

I
‘ve just been revisiting the GGP overlay. It occurred to me that it was previously presented with the dragon face down, but it would be more logical to present it with the dragon face up to align the GH with Great Highway on the map.
This shows up some possible correspondences like the Tao symbol, “the way”, on Lincoln Way.
There are various other parts
of
the map you might focus on. Eg, “Between two arms extended, below the bar that binds”, could describe the area between the dragon’s arms under the barred window. From Roanoke we know that verses can describe things in images. Or you could look at the Tao, now near the top
of
34th which has RLS Elementary. Or you could consider the fact that the image corresponds to June/Gemini/II and look at the “II” near the dragon’s mouth etc.
However, my favourite trail is still from Portsmouth Square to Lafayette Square as set out here:
http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc … ftrail.pdf
It’s often been suggested that the picture leads to the city, and the verse leads to the spot, so despite the prominence
of
GGP,
I
‘m regarding it as an “iconic image” like Milwaukee City Hall. The chinese dragon stuff is equally prominent, and this belongs in Chinatown. Portsmouth Square is nicknamed the “Heart
of
Chinatown”. GGP on the other hand has little to do with the Chinese, unless you go looking in one
of
the pavilions, but there’s nothing in any
of
the verses that takes you there.

I’ve just been revisiting the GGP overlay. It occurred to me that it was previously presented with the dragon face down, but it would be more logical to present it with the dragon face up to align the GH with Great Highway on the map.
This shows up some possible correspondences like the Tao symbol, “the way”, on Lincoln Way.
There are various other parts of the map you might focus on. Eg, “Between two arms extended, below the bar that binds”, could describe the area between the dragon’s arms under the barred window. From Roanoke we know that verses can describe things in images. Or you could look at the Tao, now near the top of 34th which has RLS Elementary. Or you could consider the fact that the image corresponds to June/Gemini/II and look at the “II” near the dragon’s mouth etc.
However, my favourite trail is still from Portsmouth Square to Lafayette Square as set out here:
http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc … ftrail.pdf
It’s often been suggested that the picture leads to the city, and the verse leads to the spot, so despite the prominence of GGP, I’m regarding it as an “iconic image” like Milwaukee City Hall. The chinese dragon stuff is equally prominent, and this belongs in Chinatown. Portsmouth Square is nicknamed the “Heart of Chinatown”. GGP on the other hand has little to do with the Chinese, unless you go looking in one of the pavilions, but there’s nothing in any of the verses that takes you there.

WhiteRabbit

I
‘ve just been revisiting the GGP overlay. It occurred to me that it was previously presented with the dragon face down, but it would be more logical to present it with the dragon face up to align the GH with Great Highway on the map.

I
really like this overlay.  Having inverted the image, things line up nicely…especially the way the Great Highway lines up with our GH and how 41st Ave runs across her hands (only if her fingers were pointing at a “41”).  This park seems like prime real estate for hiding a casque but
I
suppose it could just be our city confirmer.

WhiteRabbit

I’ve just been revisiting the GGP overlay. It occurred to me that it was previously presented with the dragon face down, but it would be more logical to present it with the dragon face up to align the GH with Great Highway on the map.

I really like this overlay.  Having inverted the image, things line up nicely…especially the way the Great Highway lines up with our GH and how 41st Ave runs across her hands (only if her fingers were pointing at a “41”).  This park seems like prime real estate for hiding a casque but I suppose it could just be our city confirmer.

WhiteRabbit

Good call jimerson.

you had it that way last april…
and all my images
of
ggpark overlayed had it that way, but the servers they were hosted on are long gone ,so are the images…
you need to resize you dragon a bit though…

WhiteRabbit

Good call jimerson.

you had it that way last april…
and all my images of ggpark overlayed had it that way, but the servers they were hosted on are long gone ,so are the images…
you need to resize you dragon a bit though…

Once upon a time
I
said
I
thought the weird blue shape in image one looked a bit like the south end
of
North Lake.
Since that time people have gone back through the boards and read that message then gone to google maps or Google earth and looked at North Lake, then sent me emails or messages saying
I
was totally wrong.
In an effort to head off any more
of
those messages
I
would like to say here is a comparison
which includes the GGPARk tourist map from 1990, the current GGpark tourist map and  The current google map view.
This just gives you a bit
of
an idea how much the area has really changed in 30 some years.

Once upon a time I said I thought the weird blue shape in image one looked a bit like the south end of North Lake.
Since that time people have gone back through the boards and read that message then gone to google maps or Google earth and looked at North Lake, then sent me emails or messages saying I was totally wrong.
In an effort to head off any more of those messages I would like to say here is a comparison
which includes the GGPARk tourist map from 1990, the current GGpark tourist map and  The current google map view.
This just gives you a bit of an idea how much the area has really changed in 30 some years.

I
am disheartend to report that
I
went to Lincoln park and dug, but came up empty.
We dug 4 separate spots  all with the assumption that the giant step was the 4 or 5 foot drop from the parking lot to the dirt.
When we were there we did notice one thing. the Door with the bars, The flagpole location, the apex
of
the parking lot and Fort Point (an object that mark twain visited and wrote about)  All line up in a straight line.
needless to say we dug along that line next to the retaining wall and one giant step away from the wall.  We found nothing but old and new irrigation pipes. (cast iron and PVC) (and some syringes with needles)
We also dug to the left and right
of
that area.
and in the direction
of
Down town SF from the flagpole (basically in line with the seamans memorial against the retaining wall)
What
I
found from talking with the people who work there, was that along that hillside lots
of
earth (sand actually) has been moved around. in the early 90s the parking area was renovated and new irrigation pipes and utility conduits were installed.
most likely its still there but might be deeper than it was originally.
The Grounds crew were really friendly and helpful and lent us shovels and helpful advice.
If BP were still around
I
bet we were close enough that he would have said so.

I am disheartend to report that I went to Lincoln park and dug, but came up empty.
We dug 4 separate spots  all with the assumption that the giant step was the 4 or 5 foot drop from the parking lot to the dirt.
When we were there we did notice one thing. the Door with the bars, The flagpole location, the apex of the parking lot and Fort Point (an object that mark twain visited and wrote about)  All line up in a straight line.
needless to say we dug along that line next to the retaining wall and one giant step away from the wall.  We found nothing but old and new irrigation pipes. (cast iron and PVC) (and some syringes with needles)
We also dug to the left and right of that area.
and in the direction of Down town SF from the flagpole (basically in line with the seamans memorial against the retaining wall)
What I found from talking with the people who work there, was that along that hillside lots of earth (sand actually) has been moved around. in the early 90s the parking area was renovated and new irrigation pipes and utility conduits were installed.
most likely its still there but might be deeper than it was originally.
The Grounds crew were really friendly and helpful and lent us shovels and helpful advice.
If BP were still around I bet we were close enough that he would have said so.

I
‘m sorry that you can’t be persuaded to broaden the search.
I
really don’t think this was the spot. But well done for breaking soil. We’ll find one yet.

I’m sorry that you can’t be persuaded to broaden the search. I really don’t think this was the spot. But well done for breaking soil. We’ll find one yet.

I
thought you had it nailed.  The soil irrigation work sounds like a serious problem if that’s the case.  Any pics you can share or a detail
of
the line you worked with?

I thought you had it nailed.  The soil irrigation work sounds like a serious problem if that’s the case.  Any pics you can share or a detail of the line you worked with?

Choice

Has anyone probed the red X area?

Just taken a screenshot of an old home movie from 1980. Looks like the semaphore pole (I think) that appears to be roughly in front of you’re red X probe area. Maybe the giant pole? (this pole was also mentioned by one user back in 2007, but it looked like that trail went cold) You can also see not far away “High posts are three” in this shot (The Balclutha I beleive).
Also, I’ve not looked into it yet but whats the white building to the right of this screenshot with the various towers?
https://imgur.com/EBCTjZj

I have decided to go ahead and post what I think is a viable solution for the San Francisco puzzle. I am not going to be able to get out there any time soon so I am hoping maltedfalcon or someone else close will have a chance to check out my theory.
So here goes.
First, the poem.
At stone wall’s door the air smells sweet.
– Because of its proximity to the Conservatory of Flowers area I think this refers to the Haight Street entrance that passes under Kezar Drive.
Not far away high posts are three.
– I have no idea what this might be without being in the area to check.
Education and Justice for all to see.
– Education = California Academy of Sciences Justice = tennis courts??
Sounds from the sky near Ace is high Running north, but first across
– Highway 1
In jewels direction is an object of Twain’s attention.
– Fulton Street
Giant pole Giant step
– This is the key in my opinion. The trunk of a giant redwood is called a “giant pole”. Find a particular redwood in the park and take a giant step from it towards Fulton Street.
To the place the casque is kept.
– Hopefully we are there.
Okay, the problem now is which redwood?
To the painting.
I am not going to rehash all of the obvious like the jewel, clock, rose, longitude and latitude, Golden Gate Park, etc.
I want to concentrate on a couple of things. First and foremost is the rocks. I do not believe they are rocks. The very first time I looked at this picture the first thing that came to my mind was the bark of redwood trees. Another important thing, I contacted the Sequoia National Park headquarters and asked this question – Does the bark pattern change significantly on a Redwood in 35 years time? Their answer was no. So I believe that concealed in those “rocks” may be the bark pattern of a tree in GGP. But which tree?
That brings me to my second item, her hands. I believe she is pointing out streets. In particular, because of the orientation of the park in the picture, 3rd and 4th streets. Across Fulton Street between 3rd and 4th street there is a single Redwood. Could this be the tree? I had planned on going and checking that out by using the painting and bark patterns but maybe someone that lives in the area can check it out and save me the drive from Houston. If you connect 3rd and 4th street on the north side of the park to 3rd and 4th streets on the south side of the park, maybe the tree is between those two lines. The National Aids Memorial Grove of redwoods is located within these lines. I did not see any redwoods bordering Lincoln Way using Google between 3rd and 4th streets but that area should not be overlooked if nothing turns up in the other areas. When looking at the trees on Google you have to differentiate between the redwoods and the giant sycamores that have a much smoother bark. The redwoods generally have flat tops.
So there you have my idea on the GGP solution and determining the exact location using references in the painting and poem. Good luck to all.

The pdf files on this site may be of interest. They show the park history (Golden Gate) with dates and locations of monuments, and much more. Perhaps helpful weeding out the new from the old.
http://www.sfgov.org/site/recpark_page.asp?id=30236

Here are some other – not necessarily better – pics of the DeYoung:
Nice find. It’s quite close to the rose garden.

Looking up the DeYoung Museum I found several pix such as the ones below that appear to show massive renovation….let’s hope our casque was not too near the museum.
http://www.flickr.com/photos/telstar/44539265/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/omunene/303403277/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/pengrin/238819626/

The artist was told the city for image 10.
Otherwise he would not have created the “mill-walk-key” rebus.

shecrab

Digging deeper: the casques were buried no more than 3 feet deep, according to the book. In 30 years, this may have sunk a bit, but it’s unlikely it sunk that much unless the area was flooded or the ground was very porous and took on a lot of water. In which case, there might not be a casque to dig UP.

Yeah.  Because of this, I keep thinking it’d be great to get JJP to give us some strong hints, and let us resolve some of these once and for all.  I know he wants to keep the hunt alive out of respect for BP but there really just may not be anything to dig up anymore.

To be honest, I expect JJP knew more about this puzzle than he’s generally given credit for, but it’s impossible to know. BP could have given him any amount of stuff to include without explaining it to him in his “dossiers with obscure photos and notes”, including this rebus.

Now, although I was certain this casque was somewhere in Lafayette (see
here
), as always, it’s been tricky to narrow it down to a couple of square feet. But I’ve chosen my favourite spot.
I felt this dragon had something to do with it, nosing into the border between courts I and II…
Or on the eighth a scene
Where law defended
Between two arms extended
Tennis court (between two players with arms extended).
Below the bar that binds
This could be any or all of several things…south of Alcatraz, a point below the barred window in Image 1 (eg the “X”), below the railing of the tennis court…but I was also drawn to the cablecar lines beside the road. Considering the wall in the image, I looked here…
This is between the two courts I and II, beside the wall. From here you get a clear view of the courts and palms…
And the post has a possible contender for a bar that binds…
And a sign which accounts for the 68s in the image. (There are three; clock and rose, sets of boxes indicated by the fingers, and this one in the dragon’s coils.)
Beside the long palm’s shadow
(Double reference to the courts – longue paume – and palms at Lafayette, see above.)
For me, this is it. I haven’t seen a credible verse explanation for anywhere else.
Those domed stripey rocks and all the moons are a hint for the
Chabot Observatory
which started here.
There’s an avalanche of clues for this place. All it takes to pick up the SF casque is a ten-minute dig at this spot. Bet you $50 it’s there!  ;D
Friends of Lafayette Park, cleanup and planting first Saturday of every month. What’s not to like?
http://www.friendsoflafayettepark.com/m … ening.html

Well, how would he know? He wasn’t informed as to the burial sites, only given pictures. It’s unlikely he’d know where any of them were except for Cleveland.

I for one, want absolutely no hints.
If
When we find one having hints would cheapen it.

The casques are getting a lot harder to find, is all.  At the current rate, it’ll be the year 2040 or so before we find another casque or two.

I’m with malt — I can wait to 2040 if it means finding a casque through teamwork, inspiration, and logic. Don’t want to get handed the answer.

Howardjthomas

Has this face been noticed before. It’s under and to the left of the stone door.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/czo6yn49jey7m … 4.jpg?dl=0

I don’t recall seeing a post about that. Does it appear to you to be someone looking to the right side of Image 1? I’m struggling to make out a clear face otherwise. If so, there is a similar looking figure on the statue dedicated to Verdi in GGP, located here:
https://goo.gl/maps/e6eeXF6qBJM2
. A closeup photo of the figure can be found here:
http://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/wp … C_3800.jpg
. Interestingly, the statue depicts Love, Tragedy, Joy and Sorrow, which were not unfamiliar topics for Mark Twain to write about.

Has Washington DC been considered for this image…? There seems to have been some discussion of the place in the past, but it seems to have been dropped, and I haven’t seen it suggested for this one. The 38 is solid though, and it’s not like you couldn’t find 77s if you wanted.
The rose always reminded me of a flintlock somehow.
Here’s George Washington’s Hawkins.
The hands are pointing to rows 4 and 3 – DC…?
(I know you’d expect something a lot better than that. Just wondering what possible candidates for DC there might be to go with my idle speculation on V2. I’m curious how the Chinese fair folk, Yi & co, don’t show on the map, and was reading about the special status of DC which isn’t in any State.)

Good luck maltedfalcon!!!
(Take pictures.)

I will take video
I have a little flip camera.

Ok checked my Schedule. and Wednesday July 7th is a go for heading to SF to dig. (7/7 for you numerologist types…)
SF is a 2.5 hour trip from my house.
Sunrise is 5:55 am on that day. So I plan to leave at 3:30 am
Accomplishing several things.
1 beating the traffic (it is a work day)
2 arriving on site at dawn minimizing muggle traffic.
3 arriving before any public works people start their day.
That being said, everybody who wants to is welcome to show up.
Im bringing my kids, now 15 and 18 who have put up with many of Dad’s trips to SF to dig holes.
If you want to show up – let me know and I can set up a location to meet up.

something that always bugged me about my solution in GGPark
is there was no image in the picture that you could see from the dig site.
i.e. the cleveland picture has the image of the wall in it
the chicago picture has the image of the fixture in it.
Not  actually having been on the site. but I thing there are at least two images in the picture you should be able to see from the location.
and the Drive a long way turn widdershins, theory works.

Good luck!  I’m anxiously waiting to hear your theory (after the dig of course).

Great luck to you maltedfalcon… someone needs to get in the paper again so the chase will be reignited! I wanna see your pic in the Chronicle!

Been real busy at work, but things look to be slowing down a bit.  Anyway, take a look at the rose one more time.
I
told Fox that there is a woman hidden in the rose with her back arched.  Does anyone else see this?  If so, is there any link to what we’ve been discussing?
ABQRAM

Been real busy at work, but things look to be slowing down a bit.  Anyway, take a look at the rose one more time.  I told Fox that there is a woman hidden in the rose with her back arched.  Does anyone else see this?  If so, is there any link to what we’ve been discussing?
ABQRAM

I
see the what you are talking about
kind
of
vague to say “woman”  more
of
a “figure”
The legs are a bit long – kind
of
looks like the AOL logo guy

I see the what you are talking about
kind of vague to say “woman”  more of a “figure”
The legs are a bit long – kind of looks like the AOL logo guy

No joy in Golden Gate Land.
I think I made progress, but Its possible 30 years of Erosion has erased the location.
I will put the image stuff in this thread and the verse stuff in the verse 7 thread.
I see her fingers pointing at blocks 3 and 4, to the left of her is a silhouette of Lincoln.
above her is a window in a cliff, possibly denoting a cliff house…
also of course in her hairline is a map of the headlands of the golden gate.
Behind her are cliffs above the ocean and one of the rocks seems to have a strangely shaped hole in it.
under the table top is another strange silhouette.
Going with the Widdershins theory, You start at the iconic image, drive a long way straight and then reach the first part of the verse and turn left and then finish the verse at the dig spot.
Starting at Golden Gate Park, I headed north on 34th ave. which runs straight north from the park until it reaches. Lincoln park.
at the top of Lincoln park, it arrives at the Palace of the Legion of honor. a stone building with a walled courtyard and a large doorway.
the road dead ends there and you can turn left on camino del mar. which in itself only goes a short distance before dead ending into a walkway.
But back to the image. Lincoln park /golfcourse / Palace of the Legion of Honor was built on a grave yard. (at the turn of the century all the bodies/caskets/gravestones were moved.)
(its illegal to be buried in San Francisco now )
There are though a few monuments still in place. and directly opposite the palace of the legion of honor, in the grass of the golf course Is a small fenced off area with a monument.
from just one angle (if you were standing at the farthest point accoss the fountain from the entrance. you can look at this monument and it is very possibly the silhouette under the table.
its like a 90-95% match. ( I will post a picture as soon as I get them downloaded)
On to Verse 7…

Hmmm…

Here is my photo album from Aquatic Park, Ghirardelli Square and Hyde Street Pier.
http://www.cobbcrew.org/AquaticPark/AquaticPark.html

Jimerson,
Which verse are you working from and what is your logic with the verse.
I certainly see some similarities in you photo, map and the picture
Matt Sparks

MageSmiley was using Verse 7. He should be posting his theory soon.

Hello everyone, just found this board (and was introduced to The Secret) yesterday. I’ve read through all the posts here since then and must say I am amazed at the research and creativity of all of you.
I was recently in San Francisco for a few days in May and am so giddy all of you are discussing several places I got to visit on my quick trip.
I’m trying to digest everything I have read and some research I have done myself, but I thought I’d throw out a couple observations that hopefully add a new spin or fresh take on things.
1. White Rabbit’s interpretation of Verse 6 originally had me convinced it was in Lafayette Park. This took me on an adventure to research Samuel Holladay and his mansion on the summit of Lafayette Park (white house close at hand, if that does not refer to the apartment complex on site). Here’s some information and some photos about Holladay and that area:
http://www.sparkletack.com/2007/06/22/6 … ette-park/
. Granted, the mansion was no longer in existence when BP hid the casques, but I found it to be interesting and may be of some indication of the burial location in that area.
2. Moreoever, if it is in Lafayette Park, perhaps the “between two arms extended” refers to each of the tennis nets of the adjacent tennis courts, each net appearing to be an arm extended. Perhaps the location is between the two tennis courts, level with the nets, and next to the fence (the bar that binds). This is a stretch, but wanted to throw it out there.
3. I was absolutely fascinated by the early discussion around Coit Tower. While the clothing of the lady in Image 1 appears to contain GGPark, could the blue portion itself be Coit Tower? Between the “G” and “h” on her shirt is a narrower portion of blue “fabric” that widens and continues downward for the rest of her outfit. Coit Tower is narrow at the top in a similar manner. Discussion regarding Coit Tower and Telegraph Hill died down long ago, but it seemed like there were many things in both Image 1 and Verse 7 that indicated it may be a viable site (or play a part in leading to the correct site). Since we have yet to find a definite image of a building in Image 1 linking it to San Francisco, perhaps Coit Tower is the image in blue.
4. Is the table’s pedestal simply a candlestick in reference to Candlestick Park as a means of linking Image 1 to San Francisco? This seems oversimplified, sure, but I think we may put too much weight on each detail of the picture sometimes.
I don’t doubt I haven’t added much to the conversation at this point, but I know many of you have been laboring over these items for a decade (or more!), and thought I would share these observations from someone new to the game. Keep up the good work everyone! I look forward to following along and contributing where I can.

Hello everyone, just found this board (and was introduced to The Secret) yesterday.
I
‘ve read through all the posts here since then and must say
I
am amazed at the research and creativity
of
all
of
you.
I
was recently in San Francisco for a few days in May and am so giddy all
of
you are discussing several places
I
got to visit on my quick trip.
I
‘m trying to digest everything
I
have read and some research
I
have done myself, but
I
thought
I
‘d throw out a couple observations that hopefully add a new spin or fresh take on things.
1. White Rabbit’s interpretation
of
Verse 6 originally had me convinced it was in Lafayette Park. This took me on an adventure to research Samuel Holladay and his mansion on the summit
of
Lafayette Park (white house close at hand, if that does not refer to the apartment complex on site). Here’s some information and some photos about Holladay and that area:
http://www.sparkletack.com/2007/06/22/6 … ette-park/
. Granted, the mansion was no longer in existence when BP hid the casques, but
I
found it to be interesting and may be
of
some indication
of
the burial location in that area.
2. Moreoever, if it is in Lafayette Park, perhaps the “between two arms extended” refers to each
of
the tennis nets
of
the adjacent tennis courts, each net appearing to be an arm extended. Perhaps the location is between the two tennis courts, level with the nets, and next to the fence (the bar that binds). This is a stretch, but wanted to throw it out there.
3.
I
was absolutely fascinated by the early discussion around Coit Tower. While the clothing
of
the lady in Image 1 appears to contain GGPark, could the blue portion itself be Coit Tower? Between the “G” and “h” on her shirt is a narrower portion
of
blue “fabric” that widens and continues downward for the rest
of
her outfit. Coit Tower is narrow at the top in a similar manner. Discussion regarding Coit Tower and Telegraph Hill died down long ago, but it seemed like there were many things in both Image 1 and Verse 7 that indicated it may be a viable site (or play a part in leading to the correct site). Since we have yet to find a definite image
of
a building in Image 1 linking it to San Francisco, perhaps Coit Tower is the image in blue.
4. Is the table’s pedestal simply a candlestick in reference to Candlestick Park as a means
of
linking Image 1 to San Francisco? This seems oversimplified, sure, but
I
think we may put too much weight on each detail
of
the picture sometimes.
I
don’t doubt
I
haven’t added much to the conversation at this point, but
I
know many
of
you have been laboring over these items for a decade (or more!), and thought
I
would share these observations from someone new to the game. Keep up the good work everyone!
I
look forward to following along and contributing where
I
can.

Or, rather, concerning the blue portion of the woman’s clothing as I mentioned in my previous post, it appears it could be a silhouette of the former tallest building west of the Mississippi, the Bank of America building (now called the 555 California Street building). This link has a view of the building from Coit Tower (oddly enough, considering the other discussion in my post) that seems to match the silhouette quite well:
http://www.aviewoncities.com/sf/bankofa … ilding.htm
.

Or, rather, concerning the blue portion
of
the woman’s clothing as
I
mentioned in my previous post, it appears it could be a silhouette
of
the former tallest building west
of
the Mississippi, the Bank
of
America building (now called the 555 California Street building). This link has a view
of
the building from Coit Tower (oddly enough, considering the other discussion in my post) that seems to match the silhouette quite well:
http://www.aviewoncities.com/sf/bankofa … ilding.htm
.

Yeah… the more I look at the moons, I don’t really see how the ones on Image 1 are all different sizes. They look to all be 1 of 3 sizes to me…

Just tried looking at the dragon’s eye as a centre, with the pearl as the 12th moon and distance to give a sequence.
Guess that’s ruled out anyway. Some of the distances look very similar and one of the lines passes pretty much through the middle of the pearl to the middle of a moon. Next…

I think the moon sizes are subtly different. The only way to know for sure is to make a copy of the picture, and cut out the moons.

Governor Arnold suggests maybe the many moons are intended to draw attention to an effect such as standing in a hall of mirrors,
Or perhaps it’s an allusion to Heinlein’s The Moon is a Harsh Mistress with catapults firing bombs from the sky or bringing attention to a “Warden” on an Earth with 11 billion people.

Nobody spotted the deliberate mistake about the image 11 moon.
It is not on the front cover.
I tried to show my reasoning and workings but maybe that was too confusing. Actually, I have all the objects plotted on a circle divided into 12 like a clock or zodiac so I may have confused you with the zodiac reference.
Quite simply, if you have a table or spreadsheet with the months 1 to 12 across the top as columns
then a row containing image numbers, and another row containing the verse numbers
then the moon order that I found confirms the order of the verses and the images.
So the month number is the key and we have now found a use for that sequence. I have not yet tried my other sequences from the LOTJ yet. I think they may figure in some larger logic puzzle.
Most of us were undecided about some of the verse pairing and this “moon order” now allows us to fill in the correct verse number.
This post should really be on its own topic or the methodology thread since people have been trying for over 30 years to find a relationship between the images and verses. This is one of them.
(11256)

Here are six moons cut from the standard high-res scans.
I guess putting the 11 in size order might be just about possible, though I wouldn’t say it was obvious. The order round the arc depends where you measure from, and the window seems a bit arbitrary. Then there’s the “missing moon”, and deciding where it fits…
I like the idea, I’m just not quite convinced yet.

Unknown

Unknown:
Re: image 1
Postby wk » July 24, 2014, 08:58:35 AM
Nobody spotted the deliberate mistake about the image 11 moon.
It is not on the front cover.
I tried to show my reasoning and workings but maybe that was too confusing. Actually, I have all the objects plotted on a circle divided into 12 like a clock or zodiac so I may have confused you with the zodiac reference.

wk i dont understand why it was a “deliberate mistake”, not trying to cut your work down but……
the best way to confirm your work is to give all your work in its entirety, imgs, graphs, theory, ect.
and let us plow through it, i think your on to something, its just very hard for me, to visualize and
interpret, what youve said so far. i am trying, if i can get what i think is close to your theory, ill
put it up, im sure others are too, so you may be right, the moons prob needs its own thread

wk

then the moon order that I found confirms the order of the verses and the images.

?
Still not clear on how you got the moon order, if you cant actually put the moons in a particular order of size.
Then you how do you jump to an order that works?

WhiteRabbit

…or pearl as the centre of rotation…
Distance from the centre of rotation could be another way to form a sequence. A distance in time and space.

From three who lived there?
On a serious note, I can’t say I 100% understand the methodology as described, but the verse pairings were a partial inspiration for me to post what I did in the V2 thread.

Glossiphoniidae

Yeah… the more I look at the moons, I don’t really see how the ones on Image 1 are all different sizes. They look to all be 1 of 3 sizes to me…

That was my first impression looking at the scans. It’s a very interesting and original idea though, and there may be another angle on it. Eg, you could see the barred window as a grid hint and take an X and Y ordering rather than size and orbit…or use something like Litany order instead of Zodiac order as an extra step. In the first instance though, you’d need the “missing moon”, and the likeliest candidates would seem to be Image 11, or the pearl “perfect as the silver moon”.
(The original theory may be right for all I know, but I’d need a bit more convincing. Egbert’s lunar size chart would be a good start…)

wk i like the moon idea, not sure i totaly understand it
why 2 left to rights, as L to R is clockwise
you say smallest to large,
left to right:…………….. 1 8 11 5 4 12 7 6 3 10 2
clockwise left to right:…. 8 1 11 5 4 12 7 3 10 6 2
i like the size chart to, it would be…..
concentric circles have different radii and same centre, they are at the same
distance apart all the way around and they fit inside each other.
like this
http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-soF5nHoFXsA/U … cles_v.jpg

Perhaps consider the pearl as the 12th moon?

wk

Nobody spotted the deliberate mistake about the image 11 moon.
It is not on the front cover.
I tried to show my reasoning and workings but maybe that was too confusing. Actually, I have all the objects plotted on a circle divided into 12 like a clock or zodiac so I may have confused you with the zodiac reference.
Quite simply, if you have a table or spreadsheet with the months 1 to 12 across the top as columns
then a row containing image numbers, and another row containing the verse numbers
then the moon order that I found confirms the order of the verses and the images.
So the month number is the key and we have now found a use for that sequence. I have not yet tried my other sequences from the LOTJ yet. I think they may figure in some larger logic puzzle.
Most of us were undecided about some of the verse pairing and this “moon order” now allows us to fill in the correct verse number.
This post should really be on its own topic or the methodology thread since people have been trying for over 30 years to find a relationship between the images and verses. This is one of them.
(11256)

I’ve always assumed that the moon and star in image 11 were removed from the front cover to make room for the book’s title. I don’t think there’s any need to draw further conclusions.
Yes, finding a master system for pairing images and verses would be huge. Many proposed methods for doing this involve just what you’re doing here: use some element of the book to derive an out-of-order sequence of the numbers 1 through 12, line these up with images or verses, and then order the sequence. This assumes that either the images or verses are already in their proper order, so that rearranging the other set will put things right. I don’t even want to contemplate the gymnastics required if both images and verses require independent reordering.
As far as candidates for a master reordering system go, I’d say the months indicated by the various birthstones are the most accessible, but that doesn’t give a result consistent with the two solved pairings we already have. Same goes for an ordering using the Litany of Jewels or the map. So now we have to look further afield for a sequence, if there is one.
At this point, we’re faced with many possible ordering systems that get into esoteric territory. In order to judge any one of these, I’d ask the following questions:
1) Does it result in the two solved image/verse pairings?
2) Can the method be figured out without prior knowledge of the two known pairings? In other words, does the method need to be reverse-engineered or can it be reached using clear patterns or clues in the book?
3) What makes this ordering method more valid than a different, equally esoteric, method? Ideally, applying the correct ordering method would result in a confirming text or image, so that in addition to a list of numbers, you get an “aha!” moment. Barring this, is there a recurrence of the same sequence elsewhere in the book?
4) Can the method be applied without using computer tools such as photo editing software?
The idea of the moons unlocking the image/verse pairings is compelling because they appear in the first image, have not yet been otherwise explained, and do vary in size. However, as others have noted, the precise size distinctions are difficult to judge. More troubling to me is the way you have reverse-engineered elements of your method to satisfy question 1 above. I don’t see anything elsewhere in the book that tells me to use your ordering of the moons instead of a different one (right to left,
counter
–
clockwise
, top to bottom, etc.) Only by partially knowing the result you want can you judge the way you’ve ordered the moons to be the correct one. And at the end, we’re left with a series of 12 numbers no different than any other; there is no confirmer other than the two known pairings, and some others about which we have varying degrees of confidence.
Take the method of drawing lines in Masquerade as a counterexample: if you start drawing lines from fingers through eyes in the proper order, you don’t just get an arbitrary sequence of letters, you get a meaningful series of words. Without a clear instruction somewhere in The Secret to order the moons your way, how could a puzzler without benefit of the two solved casques know that the resulting pairings are more valid than image 1/verse 1, image 2/verse 2, etc.?

wk

Nobody spotted the deliberate mistake about the image 11 moon.
It is not on the front cover.
I tried to show my reasoning and workings but maybe that was too confusing. Actually, I have all the objects plotted on a circle divided into 12 like a clock or zodiac so I may have confused you with the zodiac reference.
Quite simply, if you have a table or spreadsheet with the months 1 to 12 across the top as columns
then a row containing image numbers, and another row containing the verse numbers
then the moon order that I found confirms the order of the verses and the images.
So the month number is the key and we have now found a use for that sequence. I have not yet tried my other sequences from the LOTJ yet. I think they may figure in some larger logic puzzle.
Most of us were undecided about some of the verse pairing and this “moon order” now allows us to fill in the correct verse number.
This post should really be on its own topic or the methodology thread since people have been trying for over 30 years to find a relationship between the images and verses. This is one of them.
(11256)

I’ve always assumed that the moon and star in image 11 were removed from the front cover to make room for the book’s title. I don’t think there’s any need to draw further conclusions.
Yes, finding a master system for pairing images and verses would be huge. Many proposed methods for doing this involve just what you’re doing here: use some element of the book to derive an out-of-order sequence of the numbers 1 through 12, line these up with images or verses, and then order the sequence. This assumes that either the images or verses are already in their proper order, so that rearranging the other set will put things right. I don’t even want to contemplate the gymnastics required if both images and verses require independent reordering.
As far as candidates for a master reordering system go, I’d say the months indicated by the various birthstones are the most accessible, but that doesn’t give a result consistent with the two solved pairings we already have. Same goes for an ordering using the Litany of Jewels or the map. So now we have to look further afield for a sequence, if there is one.
At this point, we’re faced with many possible ordering systems that get into esoteric territory. In order to judge any one of these, I’d ask the following questions:
1) Does it result in the two solved image/verse pairings?
2) Can the method be figured out without prior knowledge of the two known pairings? In other words, does the method need to be reverse-engineered or can it be reached using clear patterns or clues in the book?
3) What makes this ordering method more valid than a different, equally esoteric, method? Ideally, applying the correct ordering method would result in a confirming text or image, so that in addition to a list of numbers, you get an “aha!” moment. Barring this, is there a recurrence of the same sequence elsewhere in the book?
4) Can the method be applied without using computer tools such as photo editing software?
The idea of the moons unlocking the image/verse pairings is compelling because they appear in the first image, have not yet been otherwise explained, and do vary in size. However, as others have noted, the precise size distinctions are difficult to judge. More troubling to me is the way you have reverse-engineered elements of your method to satisfy question 1 above. I don’t see anything elsewhere in the book that tells me to use your ordering of the moons instead of a different one (right to left, counter-clockwise, top to bottom, etc.) Only by partially knowing the result you want can you judge the way you’ve ordered the moons to be the correct one. And at the end, we’re left with a series of 12 numbers no different than any other; there is no confirmer other than the two known pairings, and some others about which we have varying degrees of confidence.
Take the method of drawing lines in Masquerade as a counterexample: if you start drawing lines from fingers through eyes in the proper order, you don’t just get an arbitrary sequence of letters, you get a meaningful series of words. Without a clear instruction somewhere in The Secret to order the moons your way, how could a puzzler without benefit of the two solved casques know that the resulting pairings are more valid than image 1/verse 1, image 2/verse 2, etc.?

…or pearl as the centre of rotation…
Distance from the centre of rotation could be another way to form a sequence. A distance in time and space.

Moon order
The verse order is 11 8 4 5 12 7 1 3 9 2 10 6
The moon sizes in orbit in image 1 are 11 8 4 5 12 7 – 3 – 2 10 6
To complete the puzzle sequence, moon size 1 and 9 need to be in the correct place. This is achieved by using the moon and star with halo on image 11. The star itself is size 1 and is in the correct place. The markings around the stone show how much to turn
clockwise
to get the size 9 halo in place.
IT EVEN HAS A NINE CARVED ONTO THE STONE.
(11294)

Moon order
The verse order is 11 8 4 5 12 7 1 3 9 2 10 6
The moon sizes in orbit in image 1 are 11 8 4 5 12 7 – 3 – 2 10 6
To complete the puzzle sequence, moon size 1 and 9 need to be in the correct place. This is achieved by using the moon and star with halo on image 11. The star itself is size 1 and is in the correct place. The markings around the stone show how much to turn clockwise to get the size 9 halo in place.
IT EVEN HAS A NINE CARVED ONTO THE STONE.
(11294)

Treetops,
Good post. Yes, I am aware that I am working in reverse and that is why I see it as a confirmation.

I really want this to work, wk!
So, wk, it appears that you are ignoring the moon all the way to the left of image 1, correct?
If so, what tells us to do that?
If we are only using 10 moons from image 1, then are we using both the moon and the star from image 11 to get Moons 1 and 9?
Or, is Moon 1 the star and Moon 9 simply the number 9 in Image 11?
One additional question: The beginning of your sequence is 11-8-4. That means you are taking the big moon on the left as Moon 11, then moving to the LEFT to get Moon 8, then moving back to the RIGHT through Moon 11 to hit Moon 4. Is that right? If so, what does “orbit” have to do with that?
Thanks!

wk, why did you use the moon, in img 11, and not imgs- 3,or 7,
as the missing # size 9, in the sequence small to large 1 thru 12 moons
maybe you stated why and i missed it

Treetops, excellent post. Keep in mind the aquamarine shouldve ben Clevelands reward. Something whiterabbit mentioned once that really interested me was a marriage chart that attempts to connect two different fair folk cultures by way of hands on a clock style arrangement. For example, Greece at number 4 and Germany at number 10. I dont know that it should mean a string correlation, because I dont see anything German in theV4 or P4, but the focus on a birch does come i to play in the Milwaukee setting. Hmm. Try Cathay at 6 o’clock and Russia at 12 o’clock…or Old Italy at 5 o’clock and Ireland at 11 o’clock. Each marriage offers a little cross cultural referencing. Certainly we think of V3/P11 as involved with a Greek component but there is also something to consider with the proximity of Rome to the setting of the Peloponnesian War…
I havent toyed with this in awhile, and I forget if it made any difference to fixing the pairings.

Egbert

I really want this to work, wk!
So, wk, it appears that you are ignoring the moon all the way to the left of image 1, correct?
If so, what tells us to do that?

Unknown

Unknown:
If we are only using 10 moons from image 1, then are we using both the moon and the star from image 11 to get Moons 1 and 9?
Or, is Moon 1 the star and Moon 9 simply the number 9 in Image 11?

Unknown

Unknown:
One additional question: The beginning of your sequence is 11-8-4. That means you are taking the big moon on the left as Moon 11, then moving to the LEFT to get Moon 8, then moving back to the RIGHT through Moon 11 to hit Moon 4. Is that right? If so, what does “orbit” have to do with that?

not solved that yet
The star is size 1 but the halo around the star is size 9. I am currently trying to illustrate the moving of the halo atm.
The moons have different size orbits so moon 4 is nearer the centre. also the size of a moon is no indication of its distance from you.

cw0909

wk, why did you use the moon, in img 11, and not imgs- 3,or 7,
as the missing # size 9, in the sequence small to large 1 thru 12 moons
maybe you stated why and i missed it

The halo around the star is the correct size 9. It says 9 carved above it.

erexere

Treetops, excellent post. Keep in mind the aquamarine shouldve ben Clevelands reward. Something whiterabbit mentioned once that really interested me was a marriage chart that attempts to connect two different fair folk cultures by way of hands on a clock style arrangement. For example, Greece at number 4 and Germany at number 10. I dont know that it should mean a string correlation, because I dont see anything German in theV4 or P4, but the focus on a birch does come i to play in the Milwaukee setting. Hmm. Try Cathay at 6 o’clock and Russia at 12 o’clock…or Old Italy at 5 o’clock and Ireland at 11 o’clock. Each marriage offers a little cross cultural referencing. Certainly we think of V3/P11 as involved with a Greek component but there is also something to consider with the proximity of Rome to the setting of the Peloponnesian War…
I havent toyed with this in awhile, and I forget if it made any difference to fixing the pairings.

Another idea I had was to mark the voyage of the folk in a similar way to what you describe. Then I read that you did not need to have the items on a clock but instead repeat the sequence horizontally. Check out modulus arithmetic.

JamesV

Interesting ideas for sure. I’m still leaning towards an I1/V6 pairing, but just a couple thoughts on yours:
-If you accept the idea that the Image 1 woman’s dress is a map of Golden Gate Park, it looks like the pearl itself would be located in the Panhandle section of the park. Wondering if this could somehow actually indicate the dig site?
-Judging by a few online image searches, the McKinley monument in GGP’s Panhandle looks like it has a face engraved in profile. Unsure if this could somehow be an “Image match” for the man’s profile ticked into the rocks of Image 1.

I think the general consensus is that the bottom right hand corner of the dress is the Fulton/Stanyan corner because it juts out like that corner of GGP does.
The face engraved in profile is McKinley. It’s been suggested that the man’s profile in the rocks of image 1 looks like Lincoln or JFK, which would further reinforce the Lincoln Way or JFK Drive connections.

mind you this is not the correct version of the map this is one I grabbed just to show as an example

Got it, thanks very much for the clarification guys. I’ll have a closer, more critical look through my old maps.