Fort Hamilton High School has a clock tower
with Roman Numerals on the face….

I like this horsehead railing at Owl’s Head. Wonder how old it is.
An arch from above…
It reminded me of that strange story about horse-stealing in the introduction.
“Finally, I got a good idea. I stole the horse”
Steal horse / steel horse…? At the bottom of the same page there’s a reference to the Canarsie tribe.
“…their old friends the Canarsie tribe traded Manhattan Island for a handful of trinkets…” (P29)
“Canarsie Indians who were part of the Mohegan Nation and spoke Algonquin, once lived in and around the present day Owl’s Head Park.”
http://www.buzzle.com/articles/bay-ridge-brooklyn.html
(Waves are called “white horses”.)
Speaking of arches, the first and last images are the only two with that arched “grandfather clock” shape in a white border. All the rest are full-colour pages. There’s a similarity between the two women.

(Thanks for your patience boogieman, I see this area was closely investigated years ago. Will keep looking for some new angles on it…)

I posted the rest on this thread, down to the dig spot, on Page 45, Replies  #665 on: July 18, 2009 and #666 on: July 21, 2009
I really wish I could get up there to at least poke the spot.

I can be your tour guide when you get here.  But I will have to convince myself that PP is the place because Brooklyn is quite the zoo and my time is sparse.  But I am looking into it.  First, I need some deprogramming.  LOL

I’ve carefully looked at a map and in my best estimation of the direction this gun is pointing, here are some of the possible intersections for that vector:
White triangle is the Nine o’Clock Gun’s location in Stanley Park.
Orange square is the location of the Waterfront Station which was the terminus for the CP Rail prior to 1979.  It still operates as a terminus of sorts, but the primary terminus has since been defined as the Pacific Central Station highlighted as the blue rectangle.  As you can see the “arm” does protract to that location to satisfy the “extends over the slender path” idea.  As far as I can tell, most guns of this type have a range from 1500 to 2000 yards.  This range limitation might be a consideration here.

Yes I would agree that both those would/could be valid possibilities.
a gun is an arm, I’m surprised no one else has made that association
And a railroad is definitely a slender path, I have heard that analogy before. but it was in conjunction with a narrow gauge railroad.
If you compare a railroads width to its length and you surely get a slender path.

Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
I checked the direction for where the Nine o’Clock Gun points and it actually does extend in the direction of the Canadian Pacific Railway terminal.
1) May a cannon “gun” be considered an “arm”?
2) May a transcontinental railroad track be described as a “slender path”?

Nice link…
“In the shadow of the grey giant”
under the bridge
“Find the arm that entends over the slender path”
that could be the cement embankment jutting out
into the narrows (bay)  It starts back at the grass and
extends over the slender walking/biking path that
follows the water line
This insures  you start at the correct section of the
before you take your steps.
“the sign nearby”
this is directly at the exit/on ramp
which has the highway sign – probably indicating Fort Hamilton.
“car abound”  (bridge/highway/parking lot)
“in the summer you may hear a whirring sound”
could be the baseball field in the park  (the official game of summer)
all seems promisingly coincidental.

what if, while gazing north, we do not see the actual “Isle of B” but a referrence to it?  A sign, plaque, statue, etc… that way, we wouldnt be limited to finding the B Isle and searching for an area south of it for the casque.
Is there a sign saying Barren Island or Bedloe’s Island this way…maybe a freeway sign?

fox

what if, while gazing north, we do not see the actual “Isle of B” but a referrence to it?  A sign, plaque, statue, etc… that way, we wouldnt be limited to finding the B Isle and searching for an area south of it for the casque.
Is there a sign saying Barren Island or Bedloe’s Island this way…maybe a freeway sign?

Bedloe’s is actually The Statue of Liberty.  Barrens Island is not really an island.  No landmarks or places of interest.  You can only see everything while on the bridge, so if Bedloe’s is the one, you would only have to know it’s there.  At this particular area, there are no signs for Lady liberty or Barrens.  There is a sign for Coney Island and is/was for Fort Hamilton.  Looking at a state map, Bedloe’s is north, Coney and Barrens is east.
edit: You can see Coney from the ground from under the VNB.

OK.  I’ll take your word for it.  I have to admit quite honestly that I’ve never really bought into that theory as it cannot be proved to have helped in solving Egbert’s find.

Jambone

Just throwing this out there…  could a cannon be the “arm that | Extends over the slender path”?

Thinking too much here but…
Cannon is a specific refernece to music phrasing,
so could be the play on ‘Rhapsodic Man’ that we
are looking for?  (John Paul Jones)
Just exploring all avenues…

Looking for a candidate for our ‘Isle of B’ (to the north)
and didn’t see one.
see link..
http://www.answers.com/topic/geography- … ork-harbor
And, for those not familiar with the area,
you really can not see the scrapers of manhatten
from this vantage.

Trohn

Looking for a candidate for our ‘Isle of B’ (to the north)
and didn’t see one.

Toward the Isle of B.
The way that is written, I don’t think ( but of course it’s possible) that the isle starts with the letter B.  The isle may belong to, or is part of something else.  Like
Brooklyn.
I only know one Island in Brooklyn, Coney Island.  And the only way you gaze north at it is from Staten Island.  Now Bedloe’s Island is in the possessive so the words “OF B” could fit there depending how that line is deciphered, like “It’s Bedloe’s land”.

The New York Archipelago consists of many islands in both the lower and upper bays of the harbor, as well as the East River and the Long Island Sound.( i.e. Rikers Island, Hart’s Island, Roosevelt island, etc.)  Some of these islands are
very
small. Though not exactlly north of the Fort Hamilton Area,
Barren Island
is near the Rockaway peninsula,is part of Brooklyn,and is close to the area where the casque is thought to be located.   Local lore has it that a pirate treasure is still buried on the island.
www.brooklyn.net/neighborhoods/barren_island.html
Just food for thought.

Nice find Kato.  I always though Barren was part of Queens NY, but Wiki says it’s part of Brooklyn.  Again though, I have a hard time
gazing north
at any of these locations.  Everything looks to be east of the Verrazano.  Breezy Point is across the Rockaway Inlet and you can gaze north at Barren from there.  But the Indies Native, for now, is restricting us from Breezy and Staten Island.
We have to keep talking this through until we close the gap to the casque or, gulp: a total different direction.

Boogie: You are right of course.  Barren Island is probably not the “Isle of B.”  And I agree with you that the casque is probably near the Fort Hamilton area, and that the Verazzano Narrows bridge is the “Grey Giant.”  My point was that there are many islands in the New York Archipelago, large and small, that bear investigation.
Now to work on that pesky Indes native problem…….

Look down
And see simple roots
Are we to be looking from above?  There are no bike or foot paths on the VNB.  You can’t stop your car and look down.  Is there something nearby you can stand on, look down, and see rhapsodic man’s soil with simple roots?  Roots as simple as natural grass? Weeds?
Find the arm that extends over slender path
and
Or more-From the middle of one branch-Of the v
What if they are one and the same?  An
arm
of the bridge, and a
branch
of the bridge.  I have a beautiful spot if this is true.
I just cant download an image from live.com…

Let’s try this.  Go to local.live.com and get the
birds eye
view of the Verrazano.
Make sure you view it from the east by clicking on      N     icon, clicking the E.
W     E
S
Go to the foot of the bridge on the Brooklyn side and look to the right until you find two ramps.
One going onto the Belt parkway north, and the other one just above it coming from the Belt Pkwy south.
Zoom in.
The ramp (arm or branch) coming from the Belt travels over a slender path.
From under the ramp, walk 22 steps east, which would be toward the bottom of your screen, gaze north (or to the right on your screen), and you should be eye level with soil and simple roots, held up by a retaining wall supporting the ramp.
edit: Shoot, I may have the direction all backwards. But the gist is still there.(discombobulated)http://maps.google.com/?
check this (by all the trees)
http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&t=k&om= … 7,0.001521

I wonder if there are any Sequoiadendron Giganteum or “Giant Sequoia” trees in the area.  Interestingly the only other building next to the Harding Monument is called the Sequoia Grill.  I’d like to know how long that business has been in operation, then we would have an actual ‘giant’ reference.  Still not sure what would be grey about it…need to see a 1980s picture.
There is this too,
http://www.panoramio.com/m/photo/7548196
That’s a really old tree.  Is the word ‘grey’ acceptable as meaning ‘very vey old’ or is that ludicrous or too Gandalf?

i figured the spelling “grey”  was because the french gave it to us, (statue of liberty) usually spelled like that by the french or canadiens
i still love jpj park, because everything seems to fit the directions, but just in case, still checking other areas
but if it’s at jpj, the dover patrol obelisk has 19
22
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/199 … otostream/
on it and
john paul jones flagstaff is in the
Middle
of the park and he would be the rhapsodic guy right? and he’s the
Father
(simple roots, family
tree
) of the navy
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/201 … otostream/

had this thought with all you guys talking about the clock and the roman numerals…, if the image is flipped, like some of the others, that vi would be iv………like the 4th of july on the statue in roman numerals
and also saw this line……..”.on the northern end of madison square, on an island bordered by Broadway”
also, can’t find it now but on the subways there are something called islands……….
still kindof looking at george washington for the “twice as many east steps as the hour………2  times 11……22

what if the the V is part of the arm, like maybe a tree limb
see the tree in the foreground, the arm/limb of the tree extends
over the path, and the limb and the trunk of the tree form a V,
and if someone is looking, look for a cut tree limb/arm that may
have extended over the path
click on = big
http://quirkynyc.com/wp-content/uploads … d-path.jpg
another example
http://farm1.static.flickr.com/87/24189 … 450226.jpg
one more
http://pixdaus.com/single.php?id=250881
directions for the buried casque
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
identifiers for park where the casque is buried
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.

AP: I think you are equating “grey giant” with the Verrazano Narrows Bridge. I don’t think this is true. First, better candidates are the Statue of Liberty (literally a grey giant) or Manhattan itself. In both cases, “in the shadow of” can be read simply as “near.” Second, I strongly feel that if the casque is in this area, “the arm that extends over the slender path” must be the bridge itself. It’s more of BP’s clever word-play, with “slender” referring to the “Narrows.” This is the reasoning that led us to this area in the first place. BP wouldn’t refer to the bridge both as the “arm” and as the “grey giant.” He also wouldn’t use the word “slender” unless it meant something special (all paths are slender, but only some are “slender”).
My point is that it is logically inconsistent to use the phrase “the arm that extends over the slender path” first one way to get to the general location, and then in a completely different way once you’re there.

I thought the statue of liberty was green

Malted,
Yes, Lady Liberty is definitely green.
That is one thing that made me start looking for a different “grey giant”.
When you look at the Statue of Liberty on Google images..
you are struck by the green patina in every photo.
But when you look at Verrazano-Narrows Bridge on Google images,
you see
grey
arches.  Taking the Google-street view across the bridge,
you are struck by the immensity of the structure!
For years, I have been caught in the “Narrows=Slender” mindset.
But just lately the bridge has looked more like a grey giant to me.
Also, finding the “slender” bike path along Shore Rd., gave me pause,
especially when a yard
arm
was near it.
Finding the name of Liberty Island once having been Bedloe’s Island,
also gave me reason to look at parks which were South of it.
The discovery of the “steps” in the Shore Rd. Park was a real surprise!
BP has used the words “paces and steps” to move us along a route.
It could be either measured lengths or physical risers.
Only the uncovering of a casque will prove us right or wrong.
AP

The use of the grey spelling is not unusual apparently.
It was used to describe the color of the bridge in this article….
The bridge was red as it was built and clad in steel, painted “battleship grey”, before the openin
g.
excepted from the following link:
http://everything2.com/title/Verrazano+Narrows+Bridge

Don’t want to “muddy the water”…
but in my searching of the NYC area, I found that Roosevelt Island
was called Blackwell’s Island until 1921.  It was infamous (after the expose
of corruption in its prison) in a movie of the same name “Blackwell’s Island”.
If BP’s visual clues are all related to Manhattan Island, could he
have been pointing to a park area on Manhattan…like the East River Park?
What about the Hamilton sign nearby…or a “v”?
So many clues…so little time…

Unknown

Unknown:
I thought the statue of liberty was green

A minor technicality.

This is a sculpture in East River Park.
Reminds me of the face in the fabric of image 12?
I do not know when it was created.
The photo was posted in 2007.

Trohn

Boggie-
I thought that this connection had already been made…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Jones_(musician)
Seems like another solid confirmer.
(and nothing too obvious)

I’d love for this to be true.  I had mentioned JPJ Park a year ago, or more, but have yet to see any confirmers.  Help me see the light Trohn.  What confirmer?
edit: Let me complete the thought.  John Paul Jones(John Baldwin) from Led Zepplin fame is rhapsodic man.  The park was named for the guy who many say “is the father of the US Navy”, John Paul Jones (1747-1792).  But if you look down from the bridge, you see JPJ Park, with simple roots. In John Paul Jones Park soil?  There’s the tie in?  You may have something here Trohn.  (see Adoks, got to listen)
Note: In 1969, they changed the name from Cannon Ball Park, to John Paul jones park
Coincidentally, John Baldwin changed his name to John Paul Jones that same year.

that is a good question…how indeed?
Just like I have been saying lately for the Roanoke P…we need to find something from the P that is physically at the site…

My interpretation so far(open to debate)
Verse 10
In the shadow———————————-
Statue of Liberty
Of the grey giant——————————
Twin Tower #2 (observation deck)
Find the arm that——————————
Verrazano
Extends over the slender path————-
Narrows Inlet
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound
Although the sign——————————
Ft Hamilton
Nearby———————————————
Close to casque
Speaks of Indies native———————–
Alexander Hamilton
($10 bill?)
The natives still speak————————-
West Indies-Hamilton Savings Bank
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.————–
Hamilton “works” 1798
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v——————————————–
Verrazano
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil————————-
John Paul Jones (Led Zeppelin)
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.—————————
Bedloe’s (Liberty Island)
Anyone have an older ten dollar bill to examine?
I’m editing this after REPLY #183

Boggie-
I thought that this connection had already been made…..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Paul_Jones_(musician
)
Seems like another solid confirmer.
(and nothing too obvious)

Check out the plaque in the last photo of this link…
http://www.crystalinks.com/memorialday.html

Re: the bridge, this is the Fort Hamilton sign:
Flagpole cross and Tricolore…? (Same colours as the Russian flag, though in a different order.)
(OK, so you’d have to be slightly colourblind.)

The stretch of Belt Parkway under that bridge is called Leif Ericson Drive.
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B166/highlights/11917
Leif was a viking – maybe the grey stone with the red outline is a viking symbol. If you search Google Images for viking runestones, there’s a lot of this kind of thing. There’s a Leif Ericson park in the area which might have one.
Down ice green fjords of Scandinavia, and away to the Land of the Eagle
– P15

Nice graphics, WhiteRabbit!
The artist may have used just this kind of thing.
Here is a map showing some of the possible locations of interest.
BP’s office is in the middle of Manhattan.
Sutton Place Synagogue was where BP was a member.
The Ralph Bunche Obelisk may be in image 12
The UN Building might even be the “grey giant”.
The Chrysler Building may be home to the bird-head gargoyle.
A Ball-field in East River Park may be the “v”
A little farther North, to the East of Central Park (not on the map)
is the Church of St. Jean Baptiste, that looks very much like church silhouette.

A few more Manhattan locations added to the map:
A. William Woodward (Hard-word) Jr. Nursery School
B. Sutton Place Synagogue (BP was a member)
C. Church of St. Jean Baptiste (church silhouette)
D. Ralph Bunche Obelisk (rectangular image outlined in red?)
E. UN Building (maybe rectangular image or grey giant)
F. Central Park (Alice in Wonderland statue with arms  posed like image 12
and possible similar face of Mad Hatter statue to the face in the robe)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/huumbug/2495613305/
G. BP’s office
H. East River Park with ball-fields…”v’s” form ball diamonds
from which you can see Belmont or Blackwell’s Island (isle of B)
I. Chrysler Building (bird head gargoyle)
J. Mahayana Buddhist Temple in Chinatown
(oriental lion statues like animals in water)
(See photo below)
K. Roosevelt (Blackwell’s) or Belmont Island (isle of B)
L. Gershwin Hotel
(I have since changed my mind about this Lion statue and found a Bear Figure by the Delacorte Clock at Central Park.)
(See update on next page)

animal painter

The image 12 “tower” also bears a resemblance to the side view of the UN Building…

It could also be a location where only one of the twin towers could be seen, or a spot where the view of one was blocked by the other.

Cormac,
It is possible…but I was intrigued by the red outline.
AP

animal painter

A. William Woodward (Hard-word) Jr. Nursery School
B. Sutton Place Synagogue (BP was a member)
C. Church of St. Jean Baptiste (church silhouette)
D. Ralph Bunche Obelisk (rectangular image outlined in red?)
E. UN Building (maybe rectangular image or grey giant)
F. Central Park (Alice in Wonderland statue with arms posed like image 12
and possible similar face of Mad Hatter statue to the face in the robe)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/huumbug/2495613305/
G. BP’s office
H. East River Park with ball-fields…”v’s” form ball diamonds
from which you can see Belmont or Blackwell’s Island (isle of B)
I. Chrysler Building (bird head gargoyle)
J. Central Park Delacorte clock Bear (animal in water) see photo below
To see the animated figures, go here:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=clLHA0WE0gk
K. Roosevelt (Blackwell’s) or Belmont Island (isle of B)
L. Gershwin Hotel

Once more I have modified the map.
Today I found a better match to the
animal in the foamy water in image 12.
It is a bear figure by the Delacorte Clock…
another Central Park location…not Chinatown.
You can watch the animals on the clock
move around, at the link posted below.
I know someone said that BP denied burying
a casque in Central Park, so it is merely a clue
to get us in the right area.

Can we confirm this at the very least?

I lack the knowledge to post the above picture side-by-side with Lady Liberty, but can someone do so?

Check it above now johann.  I edited my last post.
I flipped the real pic to make the face turned the same way as P12.
If I flip it back, and turn the P12 face to match, look at the shadow under the noses!

Their is a long shot that this could be New Orleans. The reason I think this is because of the line take twice as many steps as the hour or more. This could be talking about the hour on the clock in the New Orleans Image. I do not think this is the case but it is an idea we have to eliminate before we try to dig up the New Orleans casque.

The neked people sculpture is certainly eye-catching, and surely cancels out any safety gains made by putting a traffic circle there. It sounds like you had more fun in 1 day than I’ve had in 3 years here! The next time you’re in town, holler.

Hey, FB. Sorry, this is a little off topic…
I was in Nashville the past week but just noticed that’s your locale! I always wondered how you found that “clockboy” just walking around town (though, I stayed next to the neked people sculpture on Division and thought I’d found another). I had figured that you were just visiting too when you posted the pic. It’s a decent town! I made it to some music on the riverfront with a couple of jars of moonshine and food trucks galore, adventure science museum for my little knucklehead, a Sounds game v. New Orleans and got a ball, Wave Country, Country Music HoF, ate some duck fat tater tots at Merchant’s downtown (and had a few Tennessee Mohitos), rode the red bikes, took a dip in the fountains at Cumberland Park under the bridge (and climbed all over the old trains), visited a few studios, met Will Hogue, oogled quite a few Nashville babes… the list goes on! Cool place with good people (and a whole lotta flannel)! Wish I could have said, Hi!

Unknown

Unknown:
word in 3 vols.

Any thoughts on the square’s in the Image 12’s window that can be folded into a cube? The Cube at Astor?
The
In
di
in
Inn
keeper on the tavern sign?

Haven’t seen this mentioned before. Continuing discussion about Charles Dickens possible connections to NY.
Interesting fact about the Old Curiosity Shop, it was so widely anticipated in NY that readers stormed the wharf in lower Manhattan when the publication arrived circa 1841.

Here’s a view of JPJ Park from local.live.com.  I had to stitch 2 different pics together – the 2 shots were obviously taken from slightly different angles, so things don’t line up perfectly, but hopefully it’s close enough to give a good idea of how things line up.  The yellow line shows the line of sight from the monument through the gazebo.

I think the JPJ monument is in SE side of the obelisk, not the obelisk itself. (or not?)
In fact, I think Obelisk, JPJ monument and gazebo don’t align
exactly
with nothing in Verrazano’s bridge.
Considering there are angles corrections (correct projections) needed to obtain the real alignment in a pic, I think this is a closer approach:
Red line> between Verrazano’s east tower and gazebo.
white line> between 22-23 step and gazebo.
yellow line> between JPJ monument and gazebo… (intercept Verrazano’s bridge in the middle between east tower and ’22-23 step’ point)
I was thinking about Chicago and Cleveland casques burial sites… seem to be in hidden places… away from the public sight. What do you think?

Rethinking verse..
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v
The ’22-23 step’ point in Verrazano’s bridge
Look down
There is a grass area exactly below the bridge at this point.
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil
Reference to JPJ park. This point under the bridge belong to JPJ park?
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.
This ‘Or’ is confusing to me… but lead me to look at north… there is a ‘gaze’bo toward the isle of B as confirm.
This ‘X’ solution have a problem… ‘simple roots’ match with..?.
If you extend this ‘gaze north’ until reach JPJ monument (not exactly north) there is a possible ‘simple root’ (indian face in plaque) So it could be a better spot…
Where would we find a pic of the JPJ monument in the 80’s with this plaque at SE side of the monument? there is surrounded with shrubs like it is now? (This shrubs are a good place away from the public sight)

Wasn’t the JPJ monument moved to its current location after 1982?  Do we know where it was before then?
It does make sense that BP would have buried the casque out of plain view of everyone. Unfortunately, the verse doesn’t seem to be any more specific as to where in the park it’s buried. Hopefully, something will match up in the picture when someone is standing in the park.
Shannon

shseverin11

Wasn’t the JPJ monument moved to its current location after 1982?  Do we know where it was before then?

OK, I’m pretty sure it is in it’s original spot.  The plaque on the other side has been added, but nothing has moved since 82′.
Meanwhile, going back to the
V
errazano as our v scares me, like going back to zero again.  But as far as that goes, we never really got past zero anyway so what the heck…  El jayo, there is something there in your posts, just trying to work it out.  I like where it is going.  looks like we’re back to the gazebo!
The “or” irks me too.  Look down or gaze north?

Just some thoughts here. I don’t have good pictures so I’ll throw this out.
In the shadow – hour?
Of the grey giant- The Gateway Arch?- Martin Luther King Bridge?
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
In summer You’ll often hear a whirring sound- Johann,
do you have time to go to the river on a windy day?- Fair St. Louis (which was the V.P. Fair) and airshow held over the 4th?- Boats etc.?- Wind blowing through the Arch or bridge?
OR
Find the arm that Extends over the slender path In summer- shadow that falls over one of the Arch footpaths in the summer at the right hour?- A viaduct to the bridge?
You’ll often hear a whirring sound- Cicadas?- Is there a helipad at the Arch?
Cars abound- everywhere!
Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native- Jacques Phillippe Clamorgan was born about 1730 in the West Indies- (one of the founders of St. Louis)- Clamorgan Alley is named after him and is by the Arch
The natives still speak Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.-Martin Luther King Street and bridge by the Arch. (one map I have shows Clamorgan and MLK intersecting and the other doesn’t?)
Take twice as many east steps as the hour- M.L.K. Street/Bridge and Clamorgan Alley are at Laclede’s Landing- again, what is the hour?- Do they intersect?
Or more
From the middle of one branch
Of the v- viaduct?- Posted by Johann: It seems that PRESERVATION is deliberately drawn so that the hour hand splits the V. Count the number of block letters to each side of the hour hand, the I taking up less space, of course. (verse 10 ref. to “v”)
Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil- Laclede’s Landing has lots of music?- Concerts in the park area?
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.- Is Biddle St. treelined?- Aisle of Biddle?
DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING was born Jan. 15, 1929
DR. MARTIN LUTHER KING DRIVE (E-W). Named in 1972 to honor the assassinated civil rights leader who won a Nobel Prize in 1968 for his work for black equality. First named North “I” Street in 1821, it was designated Cherry Street in 1826. It was later changed to Franklin Avenue as a tribute to the Revolutionary War publisher, philosopher and diplomat. (Downtown) (Midtown) (Old North St. Louis-Yeatman)
CLAMORGAN ALLEY (N-S). Named for Jacques Clamorgan (?-1814), early St. Louis businessman and fur trader. (Laclede’s Landing)
Can anyone connect MLK to 3 Vols.?

xlurker–  Thanks much and much!  I have spent a lot of time at the Arch, nearby bridge, Laclede’s Landing, etc., but I have not looked at it in all the ways that you have.  Some things I have noticed, but some things I missed because I was not exploring in the context of this verse.  (such as the “rhapsodic man,” who could be Scott Joplin)  I will explore the area again in light of all of these details and then post a report.  –johann

In this verse, when I read:
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
As noted a before that the Indies native and the natives speaking are two different subjects. One is the group of native Americans and the other is an individual from the Indies (aka Southern China/India/Philippines/Indonesia/Malaysia Area) or even maybe less likely the caribbean (west Indies). But since the actual Indies are referred to as the islands in the China area and we have an immigration group from China (Cathay) why not pair with Image 1, that references Asian immigration?
I wonder if this portion of the verse could refer to someone like Junipero Serra, that got accolades from the Pope and Governor as a saint that brought Christianity to the native Americans, but the natives say he was exceptionally cruel in his methods. Citing that the path to God was achieved through hard labor and punishment.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jun%C3%ADpero_Serra
Or gaze north
Toward the Isle of B
If we believe that Image 1 is San Francisco the lower peninsula of California’s Bay area, and we looked to the North, we would see the Northern peninsula of the Bay Area. The definition of isle is an island or peninsula; esp. a small one.
Do Redwood Trees have bark that appear Grey?

jayheedan1

If we believe that Image 1 is San Francisco the lower peninsula of California’s Bay area, and we looked to the North, we would see the Northern peninsula of the Bay Area. The definition of isle is an island or peninsula; esp. a small one.
Do Redwood Trees have bark that appear Grey?

only when dead…
Also the northern peninsula is in no way ever considered an isle the land mass is much too large for the description to fit. It’s only the oxford dictionary description check webster’s.
to clarify I am saying a peninsula only counts as an isle when it is very very small.

eljayo

I think reverse engineering can be applied here, but none of these V’s has sense for me. perhaps we are failing interpreting ’22 paces’…

Let me correct the thoughts here…  ‘twice as many steps as the hour’
It is only assumed that hour means ‘eleven’

While we were there, and figured we only had an hour left, we had just hoped the cables were the v and started digging.  The simple roots, the rhapsodic man’s soil,  seems the logical place for the dig was at the monument.  While assuming the 22 steps are correct, how can the cables be the v?  22 steps from the cables takes you back to the base of that tree, a very old oak tree with roots bigger than me.  Just cant see it buried there.  Figuring the last 9 lines of the verse seems to be the road block.  Oh yeah, and matching pic12 to the site.  But the first 12 lines of the verse made us feel 100% sure, doesn’t make us 100% correct.

Unknown

Unknown:
His vessel afire and sinking, Jones refused the enemy’s demand for surrender, replying “I have not yet begun to fight.”
Three hours
later, the Serapis surrendered.

John Paul Jones Park- Historical Sign
The above link suggests that at least some of the content on the page is on a historical sign at JPJ Park.  Here’s a quote from that page (emphasis mine):
Boogie, Fox, did you see any signs that match that link?
The word “Indies” kind of bugs me.  Apart from “Indians”, what else could it mean?  “Independents” as in films, music, or maybe “revolutionaries” (a stretch)?

I think reverse engineering can be applied here, but none of these V’s has sense for me. perhaps we are failing interpreting ’22 paces’…

Jambone

John Paul Jones Park- Historical Sign
The above link suggests that at least some of the content on the page is on a historical sign at JPJ Park.  Here’s a quote from that page (emphasis mine):

Alexander Hamilton was a native of the West Indies. From what I’ve read, John Paul Jones park used to be named Hamilton Park.

shseverin11

Oops, my comment in the last post got into the “quote” section. Sorry about that.
I was thinking about the “v” in the verse. Could the v be where 4th Ave and 101st. St meet?  That part of the park is “v” shaped. Another thought is that the “v” stands for Verrazano. Maybe BP is telling us to walk from the middle of one lane of the Verrazano (not walking on the bridge, but starting next to the bridge).
Shannon

A few quick things.  Fort Hamilton is a military fort named after Alexander Hamilton (Indies Native) and is located in
Brooklyn
on the south side of the Verrazano.  John Paul Jones Park is also in Brooklyn and is on the North side of the Verrazano.
Nearby
enough, I think.  The Verrazano Bridge runs east to west across the
slender path
, the narrows Inlet.  The eastern side of the bridge is in Brooklyn and the western side is in Staten Island.  John Paul Jones Park used to be called Cannon Ball Park.  In 1969 it was changed to JPJ Park, coincidentally, the same year that
John Baldwin
from
Led Zeppelin
changed his name to JPJ. (rhapsodic man)
4th ave runs west to east on the north side of the park.  101st runs north to south, both streets running along the perimeter of the park.  Fox and I discussed this.  There aren’t any good areas around the
entire
perimeter to dig.

Those would defintly be hard words.

Has anyone else thought that “v” is not “vee”, but one of the points on the star that makes up the base of the statue of Libert?

I saw this and just a thought on this:
Remember “Palisades Amusement Park”?
Just south of the GW bridge. There are 2 or 3 big Apartment buildings there now.Did they erect a landmark or sign “there” at or near the apartaments to the fact that great park we all went to as kid’s(at least me anyway.lol).Proberly worth driving by there and taking a look around.
I know the lighthouse is on the NY side of the bridge.
There is a car path down below to the NJ side. At least the lasat time I’ve been there when I lived in Ft. Lee some years ago.
That path may all be closed or blocked off now for security reasons since 9/11.
Also there is the historic park and museum on the NJ side right next to the bridge.There is a foot path throughout.Maybe some Native Indian displays through that park.Not sure as it’s been many years years since I ‘ve been there
But I can’t see how one would have permission to dig and bury something there.It was a historic park when I lived in Ft. Lee in 1982. The path(s) on the oppisite side of the bridge(north on the NJ side) were all pretty much public access at that time.We used to call that place “The Cliffs” when we were teenagers and went there to hang out and party.(70’s)
I got my feet wet with the great article in the Bergen Record last Sunday.I was tottally absorbed. My wife was looking at me reading that article like I was reading a letter from a long lost friend! I made a couple of Capt. Blie pirate treasure maps for my 2 boy’s for a backyard fun treasure over the last couple of years. Loads of fun.
Congrats Egbert+Siskel! Great article in The Record.
F7,
I’d be happy to volunteer and bring my shovel to a dig.

In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound
— I’d really like this to be an amusement park, such as a roller coaster or bumper cars, which is only open in summer (typical of the northeast, i’d imagine).

you should just say it’s North of everything in San Francisco.

maltedfalcon

well sure is one thing,
but until we actually use a verse to find a casque
for instance,
in the northwest corner of Golden Gate Park there stands a large grey windmill its arms extend over many slender paths
I believe in the summer they actually used to let the windmill spin which might make a whirring noise.
lots of cars there at the intersection of Fulton and Great Highway
lots of possibilities for natives of Indies
I just never could find an Isle of B
if someone can think of an Isle of B this one could also then fit SF

Belvedere island would be an isle of B that would have worked for SF. It’s north of Ghirardelli square.

Boogieman….that would be you.  Are you available anytime in the fairly near future?

Seems to me that we have no NYer’s Here… Or am I so out of the ball park that you guys are too embarassed to answer.

MaltedFalcon,
I agree on the Cicadas theory, and this is supposed to be the big year, But so far not a one has been seen.. Seems quite strange to me.
Denise

Unknown

Unknown:
Re: verse 10
« Reply #14 on: May 26th, 2004, 11:01am »
——————————————————————————–
well sure is one thing,
but until we actually use a verse to find a casque
for instance,
in the northwest corner of Golden Gate Park there stands a large grey windmill its arms extend over many slender paths
I believe in the summer they actually used to let the windmill spin which might make a whirring noise.
lots of cars there at the intersection of Fulton and Great Highway
lots of possibilities for natives of Indies
I just never could find an Isle of B
if someone can think of an Isle of B this one could also then fit SF

I like the way you think MaltedFalcon, I was in San Francisco and did drive by the park briefly, I really did not have time to stop and look but perhaps when I return next week I will have time to take a better look. I will let you know if I spot anything. Denise

I like the Pittsburgh idea for this verse, but my only thought for the Hard word in 3 vols. is that John Lennon wrote three songs for three different albums with the word Hard in them:  Hard Day’s Night, It’s So Hard and Hard Times Are Over.
If this is the clue, it would seem to point to NY, given Lennon’s devoted following there.

Unknown

Unknown:
I like the Pittsburgh idea for this verse, but my only thought for the Hard word in 3 vols. is that John Lennon wrote three songs for three different albums with the word Hard in them:  Hard Day’s Night, It’s So Hard and Hard Times Are Over.
If this is the clue, it would seem to point to NY, given Lennon’s devoted following there.

And Lennon, who died in 1980, lived in a famous NY apartment building called the Dakota — named, it seemed, for “Indies Natives” (i.e. the Dakota tribe).  Hmm.

I like that there’s still some activity on here. Had a dry spell there for a bit.
I disagree with the idea that the isle of B has to actually be seen. Just my opinion. The verse says gaze north “toward” the isle of B. It doesn’t say anything about “seeing” it. I think it’s just a positional reference that the isle is north of the site and is to guide us to the right area.  I’m a firm believer in Concert Grove in Prospect Park being the place. Someone pointed out the outline of the park in the shadow of the woman’s dress which is a great find. Maybe she’s our grey giant and we “look” in the shadow of the dress which is the park. Maybe? Possibly? Maybe not? Anyways if the isle is indeed a reference point then check the position of Belmont Island with Concert Grove. They line up directly north and south of one another to the very inch. So if you’re in the grove and gaze north you’re looking in the direction of the isle. Also as I’ve said before rhapsodic mans soil definitely sounds like the grounds of Concert Grove with all of the composer statues.
Thoughts???

I suppose that, if we take the isle of B as Liberty Island, the line might possibly have referred to a sign with a picture of the island or statue.
Since Castle Clinton was apparently built on an artificial island, I suppose this, or a picture of it, might also be the “isle of B (Battery)”, though that’s stretching it a bit…
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
Liberty seems good for the grey giant; I wondered for a minute if the arm was simply Liberty’s arm…

Diceycat

I would not call that basic research . So you go around every site with your 1980 views and you know this was the exact time he visited the sites? Those buildings were there for how long before they were torn down, when were they torn down ? Do they give you views for every single year?

LOL If the building is there in a pre 1980 picture, and the building is there in a post 1980 picture.
it is a safe bet to assume the building was there in 1980
Yes they do give you views for a range of years.
Discovering what the sites looked like in 1980-81 the time of the burials, is essential to finding a casque.
basing theories on how it looks today is just a waste of time
“So you around every site with 1980s views” … Yes, that is it exactly
This is why it is called basic research.

Got it

Relax. I find it a bit disconcerting that the 1999 topo shows the buildings there but the 1995 aerial doesn’t. Maybe just a big artifact right or did they screw up?

Diceycat

The more I look at the image of the field and read the verse I’m thinking the dig location could be 22 steps East from the corner of Main and Main East streets , on the south side of the Firefighters field in the strip of grass between the sidewalk and the fence or 22 steps east from the middle of the south side .The steps could be the sidewalk sections maybe or just steps as he says. ( I might still fall back on the middle of the west side of Firefighters field for plan B )

I think you have some interesting ideas on this Image. Could be a solid possibility.
As for the shape you circled for the Firefighters Field, I see as a way that JJP put the relief pipe that acts as the Warrior’s mouth.
My starting point is Fort Wadsworth (Grey giant) and the ending is miles away at Clarence Barrett Triangle. Bay Street connects the two areas and covers lots of great American history. When combining the directional clues of the Image with the clues in the Verse I ended up in this area of Staten Island.

The more I look at the image of the field and read the verse I’m thinking the dig location could be 22 steps East from the corner of Main and Main East streets , on the south side of the Firefighters field in the strip of grass between the sidewalk and the fence or 22 steps east from the middle of the south side .The steps could be the sidewalk sections maybe or just steps as he says. ( I might still fall back on the middle of the west side of Firefighters field for plan B )

Diceycat

The more I look at the image of the field and read the verse I’m thinking the dig location could be 22 steps East from the corner of Main and Main East streets , on the south side of the Firefighters field in the strip of grass between the sidewalk and the fence or 22 steps east from the middle of the south side .The steps could be the sidewalk sections maybe or just steps as he says. ( I might still fall back on the middle of the west side of Firefighters field for plan B )

Be sure to reality Date-check your theories…

maltedfalcon

Be sure to reality Date-check your theories…

What did it look like in 1980 is the big question and was the area used as a ball field back then? The tramway was built in 1976 and would have been a popular ride (especially those wanting to see something different, probably extra summer tramway hours when the kids are out of school and the tourists flock to NYC) .I still think the overall shape looks like the field bound by the streets.

I’m sure and “
almost certainly
” there are people out there who have the answer for you all.
Here’s to the Shinning Ones~
for the first time in the past 36 years, in case you’re still looking for him, I bought him to you before I go, as my contribution to you all
I’ll be gone for a while, mostly because of work, I hope by the end of June I’ll be able to do this dig I’ve always wanted to.
But you know, hobby is hobby, can’t mix into reality.
PEACE~

MrSeabass

Unbelievable. Not even the most basic attempt to do any sort of research before shitting out something.
At this point I honestly wish the TV episode never aired.

I would not call that basic research . So you go around every site with your 1980 views and you know this was the exact time he visited the sites? Those buildings were there for how long before they were torn down, when were they torn down ? Do they give you views for every single year?

WhiteRabbit

Best guess so far is cars and helicopters. Slightly banal though.

Someone once suggested it might be the whirring sound of fishing reels.

bigmattyh

Someone once suggested it might be the whirring sound of fishing reels.

Are you suggesting the reels of a tram might be like fishing reels?
Okay, I was just researching a bit and discovered I had the wrong idea for a ‘tram’, which is just a railway trolley type of system.  I’m thinking of those cars suspended by wires used to bridge gaps…what are those called?

erexere

Are you suggesting the reels of a tram might be like fishing reels?

I’m thinking of literal, actual fishing reels, if you can believe it.  Which make whirring sounds.
Like these.

erexere

Okay, I was just researching a bit and discovered I had the wrong idea for a ‘tram’, which is just a railway trolley type of system.  I’m thinking of those cars suspended by wires used to bridge gaps…what are those called?

Gondolas

Once you take your 22 east steps, yes.
At my dig spot you will see the simple roots of landscaping in front of you. The rhapsodic man’s soil is St. George of Staten Island. If you gaze north toward the Statue of Liberty you will see nothing but streets, buildings, pavement and water.

MrBackstop

Once you take your 22 east steps, yes.
At my dig spot you will see the simple roots of landscaping in front of you. The rhapsodic man’s soil is St. George of Staten Island. If you gaze north toward the Statue of Liberty you will see nothing but streets, buildings, pavement and water.

so the “steps” would be on your….right assuming you’re facing north toward the Liberty Lady, and you’re standing on St.George of Staten Island because you look down and see it???
how big of an area is your dig spot? and how big of an area is the entire Verse in general?
how do you determine if your dig spot is not a flower bed?
do you have a picture of what exactly the simple roots looks like?

In the shadow Of the grey giant, Find the arm that Extends over the slender path
In summer, You’ll often hear a whirring sound, Cars abound
Although the sign Nearby Speaks of Indies native, The natives still speak Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour Or more
From the middle of one branch Of the v
Look down And see simple roots In rhapsodic man’s soil
Or gaze north Toward the isle of B.
the instruction ends at look down or gaze north(look up?)
does this mean where I’m standing( middle of the v) would be the dig spot?

So the “steps” would be on your….right assuming you’re facing north toward the Liberty Lady, and you’re standing on St.George of Staten Island because you look down and see it???
Yes the steps are to the right and SOL is North and a little toward the East.
how big of an area is your dig spot? and how big of an area is the entire Verse in general?
My spot is in an area about 3 x 3
how do you determine if your dig spot is not a flower bed?
It is in an area just landscaped with small bushes and some trees.
do you have a picture of what exactly the simple roots looks like?
Look at the front wheel of the bike. My spot is on the other side of that up against the Bus Shelter wall.
http://jonsobel.com/images/parks/barret … iangle.JPG

I forgot to add, the entire length of the verse from start to dig is a few miles, from Ft. Wadsworth to the Barrett Triangle. Just take Bay Street from the Fort to the triangle and you have that answer.
There is a wave in the Image, that’s the Bus Shelter and the Bay in the Image in front of the wave is Bay Street.

Regarding the “Isle of B.”, I don’t think it’s been mentioned yet–Liberty Island where the Statue of Liberty stands was officially “Bedloe’s Island” until the 1950’s, although it doesn’t seem likely you’d be gazing north to it.

Hard to follow.  How do you make a  v  out of a row of cannon balls?  And are you referring to the cannon as the
arm that extends
?

Still dont have my book back yet.  love too see that pg 90 pic.  If you are right, I would love to see the
arm
become the Bayonne Bridge.  Would make that church (P12 thread, bout a year ago) fit nicely with it.

… this is part of my theory that…yes, the P’s and V’s are all you need to solve the puzzle, BUT… the rest of the book is what matches the P’s and V’s up properly! (read: without guessing… I cant beleive such a diabolically ingeneous puzzle could be created with so much stuff and layers only to have you randomly guess at the pairings.) The pic on pg. 90 shows the STYLUS DEVIL about to attack a tone arm playing on a record (remember those!)?, which I beleive refers to the line “FIND THE ARM THAT EXTENDS OVER THE SLENDER PATH” in V-10. As we old folk know, a record has lots of songs, but only one slender path for the needle to follow, which is what started my N.J. theme for this one. And speaking of music, just why are the tops of the fence on the opening page musical notes, along with the note on the flower on P-9, and mentioned in the closing blurb after P-12 “to sing a happy treasure song” to have a casque to you belong… could it be a key phrase to cipher people like in a gronsfeld or something?! Just spouting, Pondering, and havin fun…

Pretty darn good analogy adoks.  Needle and record thing…. I may not buy into it yet, but the ideas are excellent.
I hope to get out to Brooklyn soon and confirm JPJ Park.  Let’s face it, every idea, they are all long shots.

boogieman

Pretty darn good analogy adoks.  Needle and record thing…. I may not buy into it yet, but the ideas are excellent.
I hope to get out to Brooklyn soon and confirm JPJ Park.  Let’s face it, every idea, they are all long shots.

They were all there somewhere once.
http://gis.nyc.gov/parks/lc/NYCParkMapI … F92CAA0BE8
Could he have used the ‘v’ to make us think about the Led Zepplin albums?
(it was 1981 after all)

take a look at this article on Bay Ridge Brooklyn,
and note the common blurb of Cannon Ball – John Paul Jones
park.
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC … ridge.html
Could the ‘v’ we need to pace from be the FIVE cannon balls at the front
of the Parrot Cannon (I am interpretting arm to mean ‘a single cannn’)

animal painter

A metal detector or a pointed metal rod
may be essential to finding this casque…
since BP gave no specific marker.
AP

a metal detector won’t find the  casque, not enough metal,
the small piece in the key would be masked by soil mineralization unless you were within 6 inches or so.
Im sure he considered the fact that most places he buried the casques are regularly searched by hobbiests with metal detectors..
I tried to use a pointed rod in golden gate park, but the sandy soil compacts into a solid mass and stops the rod after about 8 inches.
Im sure one could hammer it in but that kind of defeats the purpose…

that’s interesting that you mentioned “carrots” as simple roots, somewhere in the fair folks (devil dogs (russian), marines, junk food) it said “and help is as close as your nearest carrot”.
which i took to mean market, fruit stand, something like that……….or the diamond district (carat)
or walt whitman, leaves of grass  ;D
whitman helped get ft. greene park and he was editor of the eagle paper
led zeppelin……lead, hard word
john paul jones …….navy
robert
plant.
………led zeppelin, lol
“nearby” can mean “hard” also……..near at hand, across the street, under your nose…abutting, vicinity

Malted,
Sand may be more difficult to search,
but a soil probe can go down over 3 feet
in dirt…even clay.
A metal detector has been successful in finding
nails and pop-top rings in Milwaukee soil at over 2 feet down.
AP

(From the preface: “yellow hair like Whitemen”. Whitemen/Whitman? Liberty’s hair is framed in yellow.)

After Eggbert found his casque, I created a casque dummy based on what he found using a plexiglas box an unfiired bisque  jewelry box and a key wrapped in dried clay.
in sand I could detect it down to 6 inches using my whites coinmaster 3000 metal detector. I tried it in various other soil types. and could not sense it unless it was less than that.
Which makes sense because if it registered on a metal detector, it would have been dug up long ago.
parks are constantly scoured by metal detecting hobbiests. who dig up the slightest indicator.
a probe might help but a metal detector wont. your best bet will be a shovel.

Boogie,
The “simple roots” sound like grass.
A botanical definition says that carrots are
considered simple roots (like a tap root).
The 22 steps from the branch of the v
will probably make you stop on grass…
or a  dirt bed. (Queen Anne’s Lace is a
simple root…wild flower…related to the carrot.)
A metal detector or a pointed metal rod
may be essential to finding this casque…
since BP gave no specific marker.
AP

sweet! whiterabbit……..i do like the shape of cadman plaza as the shape of the long belt loop in the image
worthy is on the dover monument….”worth” being from “the same worth as the alven’s treasure stone”
and the word “comradeship”  makes me think of russia
http://www.hmdb.org/Marker.asp?Marker=38784
i know we found a “22” around here, will search again,
but what if the flagpole is 22 feet from the ground?
here’s the “22”
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/1994476660/
here’s the flagpole…..
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/2011956877/

There ought to be some way to identify the spot. I reckon we just haven’t found it yet.

I think we will find our solution here in  Electrogravitics.

i found the picture boogieman:
http://www.wesleyan.edu/dac/exhb/past/2001b.html
sorry, it’s not exactly what i’d hoped

slappybuns

i haven’t had a chance to find this picture:
“Tom Baril photographed the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge that connects Brooklyn and Staten Island from underneath so that it manifests itself as a powerful ”V” shape.”

Here it is:
I think the “v” is more likely to be a reference to the name of the bridge than to its shape.

i haven’t had a chance to find this picture:
“Tom Baril photographed the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge that connects Brooklyn and Staten Island from underneath so that it manifests itself as a powerful ”V” shape.”
also, the only thing i could find about summer, is that the roadway is 12 feet lower in the summer……..that’s kind of spooky to me.
“due to thermal expansion/contraction of steel, the bridge roadway is 12′ lower in summer than its winter elevation.”
umm, i have the norse guys with my russian guys,  and there is the geodesic gnome……the pagoda
and the mugwumps……which sit on both sides of the fence…
i was thinking maybe from the pagoda, walking toward the fence in the picture (4th picture down) (would that be around 22 steps?):
http://www.bridgeandtunnelclub.com/bigm … /index.htm
and the corporate giants, the giant flagstaff, said something about loves acting through committee, and the flagstaff marker has “memorial committee” on it……or the giant could just be for “jack”…..you know always with giants in fairy tales, and jack is a nickname for “john”……lol  (all of this without imbibing……yet)
also, thinking of “simple” ……….easy as pie,
PICNIC (the pagoda)
[/b, walk in the park
i like trohn’s “father” of the navy for roots, but guess it could be family “tree”…..
that “gaze north””  i believe he’s talking about the gazebo, why not just say “look”

slappybuns

i haven’t had a chance to find this picture:
“Tom Baril photographed the Verrazano-Narrows Bridge that connects Brooklyn and Staten Island from underneath so that it manifests itself as a powerful ”V” shape.”

Anything with the v and the Verrazano interests me.  I’ll see if I can help you find it.  As far as the rest of your post slappy….
The verses are tough enough, never mind the rest of the book.  I can’t even wrap my head around it.  Where do you get your strength?
Anyway, since bemo12 kicked this off again, I’m ready to go back to JPJ Park.  Also, I have a buddy who just joined the forum and I am waiting for him to make his grand entrance (1st post).  He loves this park too.  So, bemo, we can have three pairs of eyes out there when the snow is gone.
I first want to start with the flagpole as the v.  I’d like to dig on the other side of the base that Fox and I dug at, which was the east side.  Because you take eastern steps, to get to the base of the flagpole and the v, you would have to be on the western side of it or you would have to walk through it.  I know there wasn’t a Fort Hamilton sign west of the pole, but maybe there is a JPJ Park sign 22 westerly steps from it.  I can’t remember where it was but the sign was there.  Fox, do you remember?  so I was thinking that this could be the starting point for the 22steps.  Look down, gaze north and dig.
BTW slappy, the gazebo has only been there for a few years.  Not 27 yrs ago.

Just let me know when you want to dig and I will meet you there. I have some ideas about where to dig, but I want to see them in person before conjecturing on here about them.

Here’s the memorial plaque to JPJ the navy guy.  The base of the flagpole is just behind it.

boogieman
i was wondering, since i think there’s only 4 things in the park, could you match them with the “stones, or whatever” in the image, to the park?
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/B035/monuments/page/1
like, it would be the 2nd one from left, or 3rd from the right?
which is the flagpole?

https://tinyurl.com/ybv4fehr
I am new to this group. I saw the Josh Gates episode a week ago and have worked on this for 2 days now. I agree that some of the illustrations are made up of several pieces. New York is a melting pot! Queen’s Bohemian Rhapsody, specifically Brian May looks like the SOL. Thank you for looking.

Wicket

https://tinyurl.com/ybv4fehr
I am new to this group. I saw the Josh Gates episode a week ago and have worked on this for 2 days now. I agree that some of the illustrations are made up of several pieces. New York is a melting pot! Queen’s Bohemian Rhapsody, specifically Brian May looks like the SOL. Thank you for looking.

welcome! I like how you phrased that! and you are right, I had never noticed that!

karleen

I think the bird is three (or more) things put together. Ellis Island head, duck or gull body and the tail feathers seem architectural. Taking my cue from the Cleveland Painting, where the Face, helmet, hand, cup and tail are taken from separate landmarks and assembled to be the centaur. Thoughts?

That is true but minus the centaur they were basically all taken from the same place -and when taken as a whole it said “Here!”
I just don’t think Ellis Island comes into play here and has been an unintentional red herring from long ago. So yes it could be a “Chimera” or we just aren’t “Here” yet.

Wicket

https://tinyurl.com/ybv4fehr
I am new to this group. I saw the Josh Gates episode a week ago and have worked on this for 2 days now. I agree that some of the illustrations are made up of several pieces. New York is a melting pot! Queen’s Bohemian Rhapsody, specifically Brian May looks like the SOL. Thank you for looking.

Nothing really matters
Anyone can see
Nothing really matters
Nothing really matters
To me

Is this real?
Or is this just fantasy? (Alice in Wonderland)
Caught in a landslide (Stevie Nicks, NY Nicks, Madison Square Garden)
No escape from reality
Open your eyes (eye of Horus, Cleopatra Obelisk)
Look up to the skies and see (buildings, airplanes, spires,etc)
I’m just a poor boy, I need no sympathy= (some ethnic neighborhood, which is what ghetto means and has now become derogatory, play on words could be get to, could be a play on symphony also)
Because I’m easy come, easy go=( subway or tide)
A little high, little low=(buildings or tide)
Anyway the wind blows, doesn’t really matter to me, to me = (airport wind sock or tide)

Wicket

Is this real?
Or is this just fantasy? (Alice in Wonderland)
Caught in a landslide (Stevie Nicks, NY Nicks, Madison Square Garden)
No escape from reality
Open your eyes (eye of Horus, Cleopatra Obelisk)
Look up to the skies and see (buildings, airplanes, spires,etc)
I’m just a poor boy, I need no sympathy= (some ethnic neighborhood, which is what ghetto means and has now become derogatory, play on words could be get to, could be a play on symphony also)
Because I’m easy come, easy go=( subway or tide)
A little high, little low=(buildings or tide)
Anyway the wind blows, doesn’t really matter to me, to me = (airport wind sock or tide)

I like this new poster

I thought the only song links were from Moody Blues and Led Zepplin.

guys, just what “if”……this verse goes with the french picture (image 7)
grey giant
could be
“Jackson
(square)… (you know, the war, blue and
gray
uniforms, and jackson wore
gray,
for the
south)
the ferries are there or the
streetcars (whirring)
the picture has a “
V
” right in front of the jewel  (preser
V
ation)
and
rhapsodic man
could be l
ouis armstrong
(park)
if only the st. charles quote wasn’t in the other verse

A friend of mine suggests North Dakota for this verse.
The lines “The natives still speak / Of him of Hard word,” as well as the “grey giant,” could refer to a statue of an Indian chief carved in a mountain.
–Johann

I’ve been playing around with this verse a little bit as I take a break from Boston and San Fran, and I had a thought about “The natives still speak Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
I believe hard is capitalized to indicate its importance, not because it is a title of anything. I believe BP was referring to the word hard itself. In looking up its entomology, it’s Dutch. So, “him of Hard word…” is referring to someone of dutch ancestry.
Now in NY, that doesn’t really narrow it down. However adding in 3 Vols. and thinking about the chicken clue from the Japanese translation tells us that “him of Hard word” is most likely Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
3 Vols. = three names; Franklin Delano Roosevelt.
“to figure out…start with chicken”(v. rough quote from the Japanese translation): a male chicken is a ROOSter.
My apologies in advance if these are not new ideas. I did some quick searches that didn’t turn anything up, so I’m just putting these ideas out there in case they may be helpful.

I wish that flower was WILTed ROSE!

This is the best match I have for the first two lines of verse.
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
This is the USS Yorktown (the grey giant). It is parked in Charleston in Patriot’s Point. Here is the Wikipedia link.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CV-10)

The next two lines are:
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
Arthur Ravenel Jr. Bridge is the “arm” and Cooper River is “the slender path”. Here is the Wikipedia link to this Charleston bridge.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arthur_Ravenel,_Jr._Bridge

The next three line are:
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound
My best guess “a whirring sound” is the ships at shipping docks nearby or the shipyard itself, especially with the association to the next line of verse. But, I am not sure. And why “In summer”? Have we strayed too far from Marion park? Has anyone ever been in this part of Charleston especially in Summer?

The next 5 lines are all point to the larger Calhoun monument in Marion Square.
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
There are Wikipedia pages for both Marion Square and John C. Calhoun.
“the sign nearby Speaks of Indies native” is the John C. Calhoun Monument.
I don’t know about you guys, but I have tried to backwards engineer the last line a bunch of times over the last two years. It seems like I have gone through hundreds of Google pages looking for a “Hard” reference and a quantity of 3 match. It was such a relief to finally find this match the way I was suppose to (with the city and park i was already in). The 3 Vols. turn out to be three simple strong words posted on the monument plaque. “Truth Justice and the Constitution”.

i was looking at a statue in milwaukee, and noticed that the word “united” was written “vnited”, which reminded me of the “v” in verse 10 in the book. is the v in the phrase “of the v”, the same size as the “v” in the word “natives”, or does it just look different because it is all alone?  and then, because i was looking at a statue with a horse, i thought the ‘v” (in the verse)  looked like a horseshoe. … or a “u”

NYCNative

I am not sure how a plaque in SF has anything to do with verse 10. Also, Indies usually refers to the West Indies islands and not India. While we do not know what is meant by 3 vols., I doubt it means syllables or vowels.

-vol- comes from Latin, where it has the meaning “wish; will.” This meaning is found in such words as: benevolent, involuntary, malevolent, volition, voluntary, volunteer…….Maybe it has something to do with 3 wishes.

NYCNative

I am not sure how a plaque in SF has anything to do with verse 10. Also, Indies usually refers to the West Indies islands and not India.

West indies were named so because Europeans thought they reached India.

MERLIN

-vol- comes from Latin, where it has the meaning “wish; will.” This meaning is found in such words as: benevolent, involuntary, malevolent, volition, voluntary, volunteer…….Maybe it has something to do with 3 wishes.

I knew it!
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=i+dream+of&start=3812

Choice

I knew it!
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&hilit=i+dream+of&start=3812

I’ll get the shovels you get the beer!

Lets dig right here!
https://tinyurl.com/y5y47xze

Any opinion on Buddha being the “him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”?
He is an “Indies native” and his local native name is Siddhartha.
His name has 3 vowels and 3 syllables and the middle part sounds like “Hard”.
There’s a sign/plaque near the Buddha statue in Golden Gate Park that speaks of this Indies native:

Choice

Any opinion on Buddha being the “him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”?
He is an “Indies native” and his local native name is Siddhartha.
His name has 3 vowels and 3 syllables and the middle part sounds like “Hard”.
There’s a sign/plaque near the Buddha statue in Golden Gate Park that speaks of this Indies native:

I am not sure how a plaque in SF has anything to do with verse 10. Also, Indies usually refers to the West Indies islands and not India. While we do not know what is meant by 3 vols., I doubt it means syllables or vowels.

If Isle can be a peninsula, then Bayonne is a good contender.

Toward the isle of B.
Isle is defined as a small island or a peninsula. B, I think must be a very well known and applicable name to an area. Most attempts to narrow down this aspect of the puzzle have been specific to some island. Maybe it’s time we look for a peninsula either named for this B-person, or surrounded by a waterway named for a someone B.

MERLIN

…Maybe it has something to do with 3 wishes.

Another interesting reference in the book to west coast and pacific:
West Ghost
Narcissus Pacificus

Hey thanks!  The roots thing is very nice.  One option I have never concidered.
Don’t know if it helps, but it gives me a little more to think about. Time will tell.  Thanx again.

I guess I can let a little of this out without giving it away.
My ‘solution’ leads to two distinct locations. This is one of the reasons i did not want to publish it yet–not until I had a chance to scout the area and see which was more viable, if either was. I am using the verse very “tightly” and quite extensively. I noticed that a lot of the verses are used partially, or cannot be fitted to the locations 100%–I tried to do that, to remove as much doubt as possible, without forcing.
In my locations, the whirring sounds can refer to one of two things: helicopters, which fly there, only in summer, and a special sort of “vehicle” that also runs there in summertime, an object particular to the area, and which is suggested by the pattern on the butterfly wings on the fairy. I have not heard this vehicle–I can only assume it makes a whirring noise by the way it looks and what it is–it would make sense that that was the sound it made. I
know
helicopters whir–so if the vehicle isn’t the answer, the helicopters are. There is one other possibility, more remote–a plant nearby (factory–not vegetation) which might make the sound as well.
Simple roots: that one was easier. I found both the simple roots of my main “path,” and also a
metaphoric
interpretation of this phrase:
ancestors
. Roots=ancestors. Simple roots. One of my locations is very literally a place where these roots would be found, the other is more the history speaking through the place. There are plenty of ancestral connections. Add to this the fact that Alex Hailey’s book, Roots, is about his
African
ancestors, (and the image depicts African themes) and the connection seemed more solid to me than plant roots or tree roots. Don’t forget, this line leads to the next: simple roots
in rhapsodic man’s soil
….rhapsodic has a particular meaning here.
I have no gazebos. Gaze means just that–look north. The “isle of B” is north of my locations.
Does this help?
ck

I think it’s still time for you guys to go get your surfboards and take a ride on the Wave, the Barrett Wave.

MrBackstop

I think it’s still time for you guys to go get your surfboards and take a ride on the Wave, the Barrett Wave.

Yeah, no.

probably a trump voter…

I think the simple roots and rhapsodic mans soil are the grounds of concert grove.

Now consider how to work in the moorish architecture and the XI oclock.

Never considered the 11 o’clock for anything other than doubling it for the number of steps. But after taking a quick look at Prospect Park I just realized that if you use Grand Army Plaza as the center of the clock and due south as XII, 11 o’clock would be near Concert Grove. It’s not exact, more like 11:30. But it’s just a thought. I might be getting tunnel vision and just looking for things that fit my ideas.

I agree that it looks like Shore Road Park. What else has been found to point to this site? Anything in the park? I’ll totally jump on board if there’s enough proof.

it’s the time between vanderbilt and flatbush

The only proof would be finding a casque. Are you in or near New York…? I’ve never been able to get in contact with anyone local willing to investigate.
I didn’t come up with this park but it’s definitely my favourite. Here’s my summary on it…
http://www.lemontiger.co.uk/images/misc/thesecret/newyork.pdf
The stuff about the 22 steps or more is a bit confusing; it could do with someone exploring the area on foot.

I’m in Ohio. It’s just my luck that the closest one to me was already found. I would love to go to NY though. Don’t have any free time right now to travel. Need to convince the wife to go “sight-seeing” there someday. “Why are you bringing a shovel honey?” “Oh, you know… it can be a pretty dangerous city.”

http://www.amazon.com/Military-Surplus- … el+in+case
and keep it at the bottom of your suitcase…

Deuce

It doesn’t say anything about “seeing” the island.

Well, it kind of does…if someone invited me to “gaze north toward the Eiffel Tower”, I’d expect to be able to see it – and the image has a clear picture of Bedloe’s Island, visible from Shore Road Park, not to mention all the other clues that have been found for this unvisited location.

I’m trying to download a workable overhead view.  Can’t figure it out.  Local live isn’t working either.  Any suggestions?

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2& … &encType=1
( close the Welcome window and max out the screen to see it better)
I have no luck pasting anything.  Until I do, I’ll try to describe this better.
The flagpole is just south of the Dover patrol monument (Obelisk).  The plaque of the flagpole is on the north side of the pole which I believe it had been moved.  The pole and base that it is mounted on have been moved a couple of feet to the south to create space for the JPJ plaque so you can see it from the footpath and not the grass.  On the grass side is now a black marble plaque dedicated to Vietnam vets.  The image from that satellite is from 2003, I believe that the JPJ plaque was on the grass side then.  In the satellite image, you can see the base of the pole on the footpath side, but no plaque.  When I went yesterday,  everything was moved.
From the base, or from either plaque at the pole, I walked 22 steps east and it takes you to the edge of the path that runs parallel to 101st St.  I mean right to the edge.  In some spots there are only slabs where benches used to be mounted.  There are alot of
electrical box
man hole covers along every footpath in the park.  I got the feeling though, that the center (or middle) of the v would be just east, or 22 steps east of the pole, one branch running south along 101st, and one west, running back to the pole and beyond.  In a sense, if you are standing
in the middle of the v
, 22 west steps to the flagpole would be the
middle of one branch
of it.  22 steps east takes you to the v, and 22 steps west, takes you back to the middle of the one branch of the v.  The v  is branching out from the corner of the footpaths that meet coming from the pole going east, and going south along 101st.
The way I see it, the x spot would be that corner where the v starts to branch out into the two different directions.  I don’t really like the spot, but that’s all I could come up with.  I only spent about thirty minutes there and didn’t find anyone who knew anthing about the park.  I’m open to any suggestions…..

If you look at the hybrid live map,
a perfect ‘v’ is formed by the intersection of
4th avenue and shore road.
a sign is across the street (west) at the
entrance to the Belt.  I wonder if it has
Hamilton on it….
I have thought that instead of starting at the obelisk,
flag pole and walking east,
that you would end up there and see:
Father (simple root) of the navy
John Paul Jones (rhapsonic man)
looking down.
Walking this way would explain
the ‘or more’ if you started across the street
at the sign rather than
‘in the middle of the road’ where
‘cars abound’.

I usually get the photo I want (Google, local.live, etc.) on the screen, hit “Print Screen,” then simply paste to Windows Paint or some other graphics program. After that you can type, print, save, etc.

I’m sorry…maybe I missed this elsewhere…but why is John Paul Jones considered “rhapsodic?”
I looked thru the thread, but couldn’t find an answer to this.
ck

shecrab

I’m sorry…maybe I missed this elsewhere…but why is John Paul Jones considered “rhapsodic?”
I looked thru the thread, but couldn’t find an answer to this.
ck

He knows a lady who thinks that the path to heaven
is paved in gold.

Reread Pauline Johnson’s poem
In the Shadows
and the first line, “I am sailing to the leeward,” is very interesting to me.  In the Preiss verse, the line about taking “east steps” intrigues me because it is an unusual way to pose a direction.  The usual way is “steps east”, which is clearly saying steps towards east, but calling the “east steps” places emphasis on the step in a way similar to how wind direction is described.  An east wind is actually blowing in the direction west.  So a step east is in the direction east and an east step is in the direction west.  It is actually a pleasant surprise that Pauline Johnson poem begins with a line about wind direction.  Figuring out the rest of the line, what hour to base the distance on and what is meant by “or more” in the next line is very challenging and I’m still considering what the title of her poem means.  She talks about the natural settings encountered by a passing canoe only it isn’t so much passing as it is following the beauty and being present in the immediate surroundings.  The words “In the shadows” is referring to the all encompassing beauty that is witnessed in the many momentus details of the landscape.

Hey rabid – don’t let this place frustrate you – you are exactly right. This board needs more sharing and cooperation and less arguing. I think the closest thing to a consensus is currently George Gershwin for rhapsodic man. See this link for a lot of commonly held ideas –
http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/page/86290141/Verse%2010

BTW:
I was in Battery Park today.
I was also milling about between Bowling Green and the AH Custom’s House.
Just for fun I asked sever suit-types, who I assumed worked around there, if they knew the name of the big building with the Indian Museum in it.
(By the way, the guy worked inside told me the Indian Museum only uses two floors out of the whole building!)
Out of the 6 people I asked only one called it the Custom’s House, and he worked inside the building.
Everyone else called it “the Indian Museum” or such.
Even the guy giving away the tour books in the NYC tourist kiosk had no idea.
Also—
I could not find any reference to Alexander Hamilton on the building at all, even in the historical placards outside which describe the customers House and Native Indian history.
Know I know it may have been different 35 years ago, but did I miss the EXPLICIT Hamilton signage?

rabidrabbit

BTW:
I was in Battery Park today.
I was also milling about between Bowling Green and the AH Custom’s House.
Just for fun I asked sever suit-types, who I assumed worked around there, if they knew the name of the big building with the Indian Museum in it.
(By the way, the guy worked inside told me the Indian Museum only uses two floors out of the whole building!)
Out of the 6 people I asked only one called it the Custom’s House, and he worked inside the building.
Everyone else called it “the Indian Museum” or such.
Even the guy giving away the tour books in the NYC tourist kiosk had no idea.
Also—
I could not find any reference to Alexander Hamilton on the building at all, even in the historical placards outside which describe the customers House and Native Indian history.
Know I know it may have been different 35 years ago, but did I miss the EXPLICIT Hamilton signage?

You do realize that you can google search this and come up with the same answers we did, right?

rabidrabbit

I could not find any reference to Alexander Hamilton on the building at all, even in the historical placards outside which describe the customers House and Native Indian history.
Know I know it may have been different 35 years ago, but did I miss the EXPLICIT Hamilton signage?

Well, it’s been 29 years since it was named after Hamilton in 1990. Museum of American Indian wasn’t moved there until later than the hide as well.
This is all In the wiki for the building.
Boots on the ground is great, but it’s good to disqualify things as appropriate before you waste your time.
I have a long list of objective disqualifications that I would share if i actually thought people would read it.

Unknown

Unknown:
In the shadow of – meaning we are looking at a spot due west of a gray giant

This is just plain silly.

Euhirudinea

This is just plain silly.

Well, it’s either a literal shadow or a metaphorical shadow. I don’t think it’s wrong to consider both equally. It could work cleverly like Clevelands hint “In between two countries” a kind of mix of both a literal on the ground clue and a metaphor

Unknown

Unknown:
Well, it’s either a literal shadow or a metaphorical shadow

The idea of a literal shadow was first proposed because that was the solution to
Masquerade
, although obviously, that is not the first time a shadow has been used to solve a mystery (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crisscross_Shadow
). However, it is important to note that while Kit WIlliams’ book was published in 1979, the solution wasn’t made public until the spring of 1982, so it’s unlikely that Preiss would have known about it during the time he was formulating his puzzle. But even if he did, for a literal shadow to be relevant, you need certainty on the object (the grey giant), the date, the time of day, and the distance from the object to the dig spot. Masquerade provided all that information. The Secret apparently does not. At least, no one has made a compelling case for any of those things to date.
A metaphorical shadow seems more likely to me. As in, near the grey giant (whatever that is), but not actually in its shadow.

Euhirudinea

The idea of a literal shadow was first proposed because that was the solution to
Masquerade
, although obviously, that is not the first time a shadow has been used to solve a mystery (
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Crisscross_Shadow
). However, it is important to note that while Kit WIlliams’ book was published in 1979, the solution wasn’t made public until the spring of 1982, so it’s unlikely that Preiss would have known about it during the time he was formulating his puzzle. But even if he did, for a literal shadow to be relevant, you need certainty on the object (the grey giant), the date, the time of day, and the distance from the object to the dig spot. Masquerade provided all that information. The Secret apparently does not. At least, no one has made a compelling case for any of those things to date.
A metaphorical shadow seems more likely to me. As in, near the grey giant (whatever that is), but not actually in its shadow.

yes, and errr, maybe no……
Read further on in the verse, fifth line, we have “iIn summer”…
Provides a great deal of information about how/when the shadow would be cast …
One must we break/read the verse correctly.
You can read the first FOUR lines as a STANZA or clue…
Or the first FIVE lines as a STANZA or clue.
I think this is key to ALL 12 of the verses…
And the MOST important approach to a COMMON solution SYSTEM for all the verses
They must be broken up correctly, and perhaps not “read” sequentially.

Dangit, Rabbit… You beat me to it.
Yes, if looking for an actual shadow, we could use the 11:00 on the clock from Image 12 (Obviously it would be 11:00 am). We can combine it with “In Summer” and we should get pretty close. If that didn’t work, we use the birth stone and flower for November and try again then.
*Of course, this would mean that the lines are actually meant to be read in the order they were written.. AND.. that Verse 10 really pairs with Image 12. If either is found to be untrue, it kinda falls apart.

Indeed. A shadow is also always going to be generally cast north in NYC. Regardless of season or time. And there are a fair amount of statues with a sub statue
directly
below it that could fit the bill. (e.g. Beethoven in Central Park has a statue directly below, Verrazzano Statue has a statue directly below)
I used to be all in on metaphorical interpretations. Specifically, Staten Island, Brooklyn and even Battery Park being in the “shadow” of Manhattan which is certainly a grey giant similar to a “concrete jungle” sort of reference. However, this verse is sparse and I’m starting to think everything needs to be more local to the site.
And yes, important to keep an open mind in the reading of verses. Could be an *alleged* 22 steps east from the middle of one branch of the “v” or it could 22 east steps to the middle of one branch of the “v” from whence you then look down.
But I think all of this can and should be left to what makes sense once one is on site.

From what I can remember and from the two that have been solved, wasn’t the verse used when already in the vicinity of the park with the casque and the image used to get to the location of the city/park?

NYCNative

From what I can remember and from the two that have been solved, wasn’t the verse used when already in the vicinity of the park with the casque and the image used to get to the location of the city/park?

Second this. A concise version of what I was hoping to convey with my long winded examples. Haha. Thanks!

Reportedly, Yes, once you have a starting point from the Image, you can use the Verse to get you to the dig spot. I have not found a treasure, so I cannot say for certain. Apparently, you can see all of the features in the Image from the dig spot… At least, for the New York treasure. Not sure if this works with the others.

UnprovenFact

Reportedly, Yes, once you have a starting point from the Image, you can use the Verse to get you to the dig spot. I have not found a treasure, so I cannot say for certain. Apparently, you can see all of the features in the Image from the dig spot… At least, for the New York treasure. Not sure if this works with the others.

I remember that interview with his daughters on expedition where they claim all the images can be seen from the dig spot. I also remember early in the interview they said something that contradicted that claim. I can not find the clip at the moment but I do remember that interview being a little fishy.

It’s very important to codify all the consistency’s between the solved solutions and all 12 verses.
Well, that’s stating the obvious which everyone already knows, but I have not run across the “rules” any where else.
As well as what I was trying to point out with my first post on Capitalization and Proper Names and word replacement…
Close study of all the verses and two solutions shows that BP uses “steps” when he is talking about a staircase, and “Paces” when he is talking about walking-off a distance.
THIS IS VERY HELPFUL FOR NY IF BP WAS CONSISTENT BETWEEN VERSES.
For NY (assume the verse/image combo is correct) …
We can start by looking for a TWENTY TWO STEP STAIRCASE and work backwards.
Of course, adding the phrase
Or more
From the middle of one branch
of the v
adds a bit of complexity…..
It all depends on how one breaks up the verse.
But you guys can stop looking now, I’ve found the location that deciphers the whole verse.
(the first part of the last sentence was a joke, please don’t PM me nasty comments, thnx)
Ive enlisted my wife to take pictures while I probe/dig on Saturday.

Classic.
I do hope you succeed, so I can have my life back.

Good luck but I think we should keep looking and keep the conversation going just in case.

NYCNative

I remember that interview with his daughters on expedition where they claim all the images can be seen from the dig spot. I also remember early in the interview they said something that contradicted that claim. I can not find the clip at the moment but I do remember that interview being a little fishy.

I’ve read elsewhere that the Chicago Water Tower CAN NOT be seen from the dig site.

NYCNative

I remember that interview with his daughters on expedition where they claim all the images can be seen from the dig spot. I also remember early in the interview they said something that contradicted that claim. I can not find the clip at the moment but I do remember that interview being a little fishy.

It was a fairly short segment. They did mention that their father may have thought the treasures would be found fairly quickly and that he thought the puzzles were a lot easier than they are. I didn’t see/hear a contradiction, but again this is produced segment of a show with recollections from at least 12 years prior (depending on when this episode was filmed) and so on, so it is entirely possible that All, Some, or None of it is accurate. However, I would like to think it is.
Although, If you really
can
see all the Image features from the dig spot, wouldn’t that put the dig spot
On
Ellis Island? Or maybe you just need really good binoculars? I don’t know, never been there.
-And they only said it worked for the NY location.

NYCNative

Good luck but I think we should keep looking and keep the conversation going just in case.

yeah, good idea.
Is anyone familiar with “Drakes Equation?”
I kinda feel like Prof Drake, we’ll know by Sat eve.
Assuming it does not rain— my wife said NO WAY if it rains!
And it’s important to have pictures!

… Quickly does a googlie search of Drake’s Equation… and…
Huh?

UnprovenFact

… Quickly does a googlie search of Drake’s Equation… and…
Huh?

We must be on a different light cone!

UnprovenFact

It was a fairly short segment. They did mention that their father may have thought the treasures would be found fairly quickly and that he thought the puzzles were a lot easier than they are. I didn’t see/hear a contradiction, but again this is produced segment of a show with recollections from at least 12 years prior (depending on when this episode was filmed) and so on, so it is entirely possible that All, Some, or None of it is accurate. However, I would like to think it is.
Although, If you really
can
see all the Image features from the dig spot, wouldn’t that put the dig spot
On
Ellis Island? Or maybe you just need really good binoculars? I don’t know, never been there.
-And they only said it worked for the NY location.

I remember in the early part of the interview the daughters said their father never spoke to them about the puzzle. Then the release this clue about the dig site at the end of the interview. But, meh…
Lets just say they are correct, we should keep in mind that there is and was more then one statue of liberty in NYC.

UnprovenFact

… Quickly does a googlie search of Drake’s Equation… and…
Huh?

I’m just say’in it’s a problem of probabilities…..
How many 22 step staircases exist in NY city Parks?
-or-
Is that what Im really saying?
Mayybe, maybe not.

rabidrabbit

How many 22 step staircases exist in NY city
Mayybe, maybe not.

Don’t fall into the trap created by suggestion.
Who says it is a staircase?
Who says it is 22 steps?
11:00pm military time is 23 hundred hours. You could be looking for something with 46 or even 4600 steps…

The verse also says or more, so looking for 22 steps in a park would not help a bit.

Something that I have not seen many people talk about is what role the fair people play in this. From the fair people characters that are related to NYC there are a lot of clues and references that help and should be noted.

NYCNative

The verse also says or more, so looking for 22 steps in a park would not help a bit.

Maybe, maybe not..!
As I’ve suggested, maybe one needs to look at it a bit differently.
Sorry to be so cryptic, let me probe/dig/post results, and it will be clear.

BINGO

Don’t fall into the trap created by suggestion.
Who says it is a staircase?
Who says it is 22 steps?
11:00pm military time is 23 hundred hours. You could be looking for something with 46 or even 4600 steps…

That’s a good point.
But what/where in ANY of the verses/images imply we are using military time?
I’m open to suggestions.

Unknown

Unknown:
Of course, this would mean that the lines are actually meant to be read in the order they were written

I can’t speak to New York, but if you follow the lines in Verse 8 (Milwaukee) or Verse 11 (Roanoke) in the order they are written, I’m pretty sure they take you to places where the casque is not, nor ever was, buried. So if you are looking for consistency between the verses, those two puzzles are enough to disqualify the notion that there is a specific and consistent order among all 12 verses. They simply don’t work like Verse 4 (Cleveland) or Verse 12 (Chicago).

rabidrabbit

Eureeka!
The phrase has gotta point to something related to “Blue Man Group!”
I know there is a small Park behind Cooper Union in NYC, almost directly across the street from the Blue Man Group theater!
…. Well perhaps not!
But seriously, what’s the current thinking on “In rhapsodic man’s soil”?
Thnx.

Thnx to those who PM’ed me on this.
Something seems to be wrong with either my browser or the board software as I can’t seem to reload any of the PM messages to respond individually… sorry some kind of bug I guess.
On PROPER placement thread placement of this post:
I searched for a sub thread entitled “in rhapsodic man’s soil” and found none… so this seemed like the best place to post the question.
Perhaps someone can point me to a better place to post questions like these?
I’m happy to comply with informal board rules.
I think this type of board software really doesn’t help much with SUMMARY questions (ie: General CURRENT CONCLUSIONS) which have been discussed over and over. I mean, why should we have to read through over 100 old posts which contain the phrases “rhapsodic man’s soil” to determine (really guess after interpreting all the posts) the CURRENT GROUP CONSENSUS of any phrase in any verse.
Look, I get the fact that newbies need to read as much as possible, and that much has been discussed before— but that doesn’t make this type of board format the best way to summarize for a QUICK idea where the GROUP stands on anything.
I also get the fact that there are other boards (really wikis) which have a different way to post CURRENT conclusions, but those boards seem to be less of a free-form conversation.
Just my two cents, thnx.