I have an idea for the identity of “him of Hard word”.
The verse says:
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
What if BP were referring to William Woodward, Jr. ..from NYC…heir to the Hanover Banking fortune?
(Hard=Wood)
Wood-word…Woodward
He was shot by his wife in 1955…but she was not convicted.
It was called “The shooting of the century.”
New York natives may still talk about it.
Three novels were written about him: (BP was after all in the
publishing business.)
Truman Capote’s novel,
Answered Prayers
Dominick Dunne’s novel,
The Two Mrs. Grenvilles
, and
Susan Braudy’s novel,
This Crazy Thing Called Love
.
The William Woodward, Jr. Nursery School was created
in his memory and is located in Manhattan at:
436 E 69th St
New York, NY 10065
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Woodward,_Jr
.
http://everything2.com/title/And+Justice+for+All%253F
Post Script…the books listed were written after 1982…
(Capotes early version of his book was published in Esquire in 1975.
and was responsible for Woodward’s wife’s suicide.)
But
vols
could be referring to volumes of the magazines and
newspapers of the days…among them…
Life
,
Tim
e and
Esquire
ran articles that are quoted.

BP could be referring to New York City authors (natives)
who wrote about Bob Woodward…and his part in the uncovering of Watergate…
He may not be saying that “him of Hard word” is from New York…but the
natives who wrote about him.
Surely there are three books written by New York City authors on Woodward!
Is he trying to get us to equate this all with NYC for general location,
or his he trying to get us to see the name Woodward on a park or building?
AP

I love it! Good thinking, AP. It is difficult to reconcile the “3 vols” however.
But let’s say that William Woodward is the wrong guy, but “Woodward” is still correct. A google search for:
“woodward” “three volumes” “new york”
…still netted 130,000 hits, so I see a lot of potential.

FB,
You ‘re right.
William Woodward, Sr. was also a famous and wealthy New Yorker who was into
breeding thoroughbreds and hobnobbing with royalty.
Between him and his son Wm. Jr…. the playboy…there must be 3 books which tell of their lives.
AP

i like the hanover banking stuff………looking into it, i found this India House Club @ 1 hanover square, it’s right around all the financial stuff, and
India…..indies?
http://www.indiahouseclub.org/Default.a … 3637&vnf=1
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hanover_Square,_Manhattan
http://www.indiahouseclub.org/Default.a … 3637&vnf=1
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/M212/highlights/6459
http://www.nyu.edu/classes/finearts/nyc … india.html

Trying to force an image of the bridge here.  Driving home from work, I could see the bridge in the distance and was certain I would find it in the water when I got home.  Disappointment!  Can anyone else make it out?
Still think that’s a BD in the lower right side. (crest of wave) Brooklyn Dodgers maybe….

Personally I still think this thing is in Brooklyn, where we seemed to have a lot of possible correlations going on. At the moment the idea of starting over somewhere else doesn’t grab me unless it comes ready-made with a bunch of confirmers. But “In summer” and “twice as many or more” are weird. I don’t get that. The only idea I’ve come across for the whirring sound in summer in Brooklyn so far is helicopters. It’s not ideal, though I expect there’s a danger of trying too hard.

i know we thought of
times
square long time ago because of the clock in the square in the image.
but think of these references…………..in
summer.
………..
.time of year
take
twice
as many steps as the
hour
……………………..
twice= 2 times
………………..
.hour (time
)
will be doing more research tomorrow at times square..oh
here’s a pic of the ball for
new years…………..another “time” reference
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Times_Square_ball.jpg
( i put this on image 12 thread too)

Preiss himself ruled out Central Park. Consult the image 12 forum, May 25, 2004.
Of course, something in Central Park may help locate a casque indirectly, but there isn’t one there.

forest_blight

Preiss himself ruled out Central Park. Consult the image 12 forum, May 25, 2004.
Of course, something in Central Park may help locate a casque indirectly, but there isn’t one there.

Okay, thanks. Assuming it’s in the NY area, does Liberty State Park make sense? I haven’t looked at this Image and Verse too much, sorry if this is a brain fart.

Q4T is full of brain farts, so you’re in good company. Liberty State Park makes total sense, if you can build a case around it.

This bulletin board is quite a mess. Hard to know where to post anything. So I will just drop it here. My research, hope it helps someone. cask 12, verse 10
Because of all the famous monuments NY Central Park has all the required references within a small area (Central Park). Columbus Circle (grey giant, hated by indian natives, 3 volume book) I will add more… Central Park also has a monument of Alexander Hamilton (Indian native, could be on any park tourist sign). It has Eagles of Prey monument (Eagles) extremely close to Angel of the Waters monument (main image, fountain only swirls in summer because it is turned off in winter so as not to freeze). Right next to Eagles of Prey it has Victor Herbert monument (referred to as the “Irish Wagner” he composed Irish Rhapsody 1882) The paths take a V shape at his monument by the way. 22 steps from the V? If it is not in Central Park all this is the greatest coincidence ever. Good luck.

G Allen

This bulletin board is quite a mess. Hard to know where to post anything. So I will just drop it here. My research, hope it helps someone. cask 12, verse 10
Because of all the famous monuments NY Central Park has all the required references within a small area (Central Park). Columbus Circle (grey giant, hated by indian natives, 3 volume book) I will add more… Central Park also has a monument of Alexander Hamilton (Indian native, could be on any park tourist sign). It has Eagles of Prey monument (Eagles) extremely close to Angel of the Waters monument (main image, fountain only swirls in summer because it is turned off in winter so as not to freeze). Right next to Eagles of Prey it has Victor Herbert monument (referred to as the “Irish Wagner” he composed Irish Rhapsody 1882) The paths take a V shape at his monument by the way. 22 steps from the V? If it is not in Central Park all this is the greatest coincidence ever. Good luck.

I like where you are going with this. My contention is that most of these casques are in large parks. Central Park certainly would fit that bill, although many people are of the opinion that Central Park has been somehow ruled out.

GoldenMartyr

Do you mean Moore, as in Annie….the first immigrant to pass through Ellis Island?

It could also mean more than 22, like 46.

Choice

It could also mean more than 22, like 46.

Or 421

46 being 2 X 23:00, 11PM.

Choice

46 being 2 X 23:00, 11PM.

The serial poster actually listens and retains data once in a while. Shocked.

Well, the phrase wouldn’t exist if it didn’t stick once in a while…

Trohn

Look at this old, old engraving of the Fort…
http://www.harbordefensemuseum.com/images/history1.jpg

http://www.harbordefensemuseum.com/images/history1a.jpg

Oh. Darn.

After a few eMail exchanges (and PM messages) with several long time board members, I have concluded that posting MY Full solution to the NYC quest would be a BAD idea for the following reasons:
1] They have not had a chance to fully probe/dig THEIR solution sites
— Since both the LT Members’ and my solutions are very near each other, I think it would be bad protocol to “step” on their PRIVATE ideas by publishing what was told to me in trust
2) Publishing the site will invite hoards of diggers and eventually lead to the site becoming “off limits”
— It was pointed out to me that the PUBLISHED Florida solution basically shut down the dig site because of unwanted traffic
My solution is still “active,” and although I did get to probe and dig over several days I did NOT find a casque…
PLEASE SEE PIX ATTACHED TO THIS POST.
This leads me to a final thought just to close my part of this thread out:
My solution narrows down NYC to an 800 ft area… With BP dead and buried, even if I have the correct general area—
There’s a whole lot of probing/digging that may need to take place.
I was basically interrogated three times by Park Rangers, Local Police, and Park Workers while I was CONSPICUOUSLY hunting for the casque.
I will start another thread on this “interrogation” at the “root” level of The Secret Board sometime this week.
Although I’ve obtained a “metal detection” permit, Im switching to “Covert-Ops” from now on.
THANKS to all those who PM’ed me, and those who posted support.
HAPPY HUNTING!

“good luck”

rabidrabbit

My solution narrows down NYC to an 800 ft area…

That’s a lot of probing.
Just a suggestion: Please use image hosting websites to post your images i.e. imgur.com or imgbb.com
Do not waste precious server space to attach images.

Hey team,
Kind of new to this all, and have been catching up on 30+ years of research, time, and frustration. I’m not trying to reinvent the wheel here or challenge anyone’s theories, but it’s been three decades with no real progress. Could we be thinking about this all wrong? There is no clear verse to image matching pattern. The Preiss girls had conflicting reports about one actually being in NY. I am not convinced of anything until.
Let’s talk.

Where in Jersey do you live bemo?  I live in Monroe Twp.  I work in Jersey City mostly.

Bound Brook. It’s by New Brunswick. Somerset County

I never like the Gershwin theory. it feels like the only reason he is mentioned was for rhapsody in blue, but really does’t have much of a fit to me in historical significance and theme. Nobody would of thought of him without a google cross reference. The only theory I dislike more for the “rhapsodic man’s” is the one that claims Preiss is him.
I think the only strong match for an image within image 12 is that the brings us to Brooklyn. My feeling so far is that the face of the statue of liberty and the 74 in the water brings you to NYC. The onion dome buildings could be from Governors island or the Orthodox church. If it is the church across from McCarren park, well that puts you in Brooklyn. Not many place for the eye of Horus in NYC, but I found two and one fits. And i have never been sure if the clock tower is an actual visual image to find or just an indicator of the time, thus the steps.

NYCNative

I never like the Gershwin theory. it feels like the only reason he is mentioned was for rhapsody in blue, but really does’t have much of a fit to me in historical significance and theme. Nobody would of thought of him without a google cross reference.

Not sure about that; it’s not a very common word, and if most people associated anyone with the word “rhapsody” it would be Gershwin. It would have been my first thought. Preiss brings musicians like Mozart, Beethoven, Louis Armstrong into other puzzles. And Gershwin’s parents were Russian immigrants, which fits perfectly with the theme.
So, it might not be Gershwin, but I reckon he’s a pretty good contender.

WhiteRabbit

Not sure about that; it’s not a very common word, and if most people associated anyone with the word “rhapsody” it would be Gershwin. It would have been my first thought. Preiss brings musicians like Mozart, Beethoven, Louis Armstrong into other puzzles. And Gershwin’s parents were Russian immigrants, which fits perfectly with the theme.
So, it might not be Gershwin, but I reckon he’s a pretty good contender.

+1
Rhapsody in blue is a universally known piece, one of the most played classical tunes of all time. There could be another explanation for Rhapsodic, but man when I hear Rhapsody I only think of that Gershwin piece, and I have a rudimentary-at-best knowledge of that art

My much more educated wife just reminded me that both Freddy Mercury and TS Eliot had defining works of art that contain the word “rhapsody.”

However, I subsequently one-upped my wife in terms of artistic knowledge by reminding her that, if you switch the first two letters of TS Eliot, then spell it backwards, you get “Toilets”

Unknown

Unknown:
His first major composition drawing on Scottish song was his Robert Burns Rhapsody: A Scottish-American Fantasy for full orchestra, premiered in Berlin in 1959, which concludes with the chorus singing Burns’s great ode to equality, “A Man’s A Man For A’ That.”

I don’t think Domingo Sarmiento or Melville’s Pierre having anywhere close to the popularity of Gershwin. I’m willing to consider Serge Hovey,

In all of the verses, “Hard word in 3 Vols.” is the only thing that sets off my wordplay radar, because of the unusual choices around:
-capitalization of “Hard”
-using “word” instead of “words”
-using 3 instead of “three”
-using “Vols.” instead of “volumes”
In a cryptic crossword, “Hard word in 3 Vols.” would mean you’re to form an anagram with “3 Vols”, possibly using the 3 as an E for extra zaniness. That allows “solve” or “loves”. The “Hard” part would either be there to tip you off to upcoming wordplay, or could itself be a synonym for part of the answer. You could wind up with Tough Loves or True Loves for instance.
I usually stay away from this king of approach, but this line is just so jarring, it really seems like some kind of self-imposed constraint is at work.

Thoughts on the line
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
I found this obscure bit of reference to Burns to be suspicious and encourage people to read it. See this 23MB PDF:
Vancouver’s Tribute to Burns (1925)
In its forward the dedication of the Burn’s statue is described affectionately as a “little volume”.
He is 9ft tall.
He sits upon a large pedestal labeled as “Columbia grey”
The forward side has the dedication plaque and a bronze of a plough in a setting. The remaining three sides of the pedestal are each dedicated to one of three great works by Burns. (3 Vols.)
I think a plough is a good connect to things like “find the slender arm that extends over the path” or “in Rhapsodic man’s soil”. Here’s some plough history that mentions some Dutch and Scottish contributions:
http://www.ploughmen.co.uk/about-us/his … the-plough

erexere

Thoughts on the line
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
I found this obscure bit of reference to Burns to be suspicious and encourage people to read it. See this 23MB PDF:
Vancouver’s Tribute to Burns (1925)
In its forward the dedication of the Burn’s statue is described affectionately as a “little volume”.
He is 9ft tall.
He sits upon a large pedestal labeled as “Columbia grey”
The forward side has the dedication plaque and a bronze of a plough in a setting. The remaining three sides of the pedestal are each dedicated to one of three great works by Burns. (3 Vols.)

I’m trying to understand the Robert Burns connection, and Vancouver.

Let’s consider Patrick Henry for a moment. Famous for the line, “Give me liberty, or give me death!”, Henry was critical of the Constitution and was considered an Anti-federalist. He often spoke out and had hard words for both the British and the Founding Fathers.
In 1891, William Wirt Henry published a 3 volume set of books called “Patrick Henry, Life, Correspondence and Speeches”
In Verse 10, we have the verses:
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
This could refer to Patrick Henry but indicate a more modern individual, Patrick Henry McCarren, a NY state Senator from Brooklyn. I suspect that the natives of Brooklyn were still speaking of him in 1982.
Here is a link with a bio:
http://www.boweryboyshistory.com/2009/0 … ecame.html
While I’m of the opinion that the casque is in Prospect Park, McCarren does have a park named after him. Might be worth looking into, or this potential connection simply gets us to Brooklyn.
I should note that there is a Russian Orthadox Church, with a similar design to the onion domed silhouette in Image 12, across from McCarren Park.
Russian Orthodox Cathedral of the Transfiguration of Our Lord
228 N 12th St, Brooklyn, NY 11211
(718) 387-1064
https://goo.gl/maps/12NLfvew24L2

The pet theory here is that V10 works with P9.
Given P9 is the opal, the lowland gnomes, which I believe is a blend of the Dutch and Scottish culture. I’m following the migration trend that the gnomes first landed in Nova Scotia. (Note: Halifax is the first Canadian location to establish a monument to Burns.) Then, when Man arrived on their shores, the gnomes picked up and moved to get away. The book talks about the Nootka natives sharing the journey with the Fair Folk and the Nootka share the regions that include Vancouver.
Vancouver, the name itself, fits a Dutch origin concept. The letter V seems important to verse 10, so I continue to wonder if there’s a simple V for Vancouver connection. Could be V for Victoria also.
I liked the shape of the large iconic sculpture “The Gateway to the Northwest Passage” at the Maritime museum that overlooks Stanley Park where the Burns statue is located.
The isle of Man’s flag is represented by an armored leg, repeated three times in a triske-lion. P9 has a mountain lion eating a leg, which has been discovered in the form of a three legged lamp at the door of Scotsman, George Stephen’s home in Montreal. He developed the Canadian-Pacific Railroad, which largely involves the transcontinental journey across Canada to the port of Vancouver.
The town of Peel in the Isle of Man which is directly south of the birthplace of Robert Burns, thus you may gaze north at the isle of B.
I like the idea of rhapsodic man’s soil fitting the ploughman sont/poet Robert Burns. (soil/plow)

If we look at V10 and P9 as being paired and in Vancouver, where does that leave us with V5 and P12? Are you also taking Montreal out of play?

I should post this into the Image 12 thread, however as a continuation of the Patrick Henry theme, he is revered as the Lion of Liberty. If we look at Lady Liberty’s dress, there is a half image of a lion.
This might mean that we got half the name.

treetops

In all of the verses, “Hard word in 3 Vols.” is the only thing that sets off my wordplay radar, because of the unusual choices around:
-capitalization of “Hard”
-using “word” instead of “words”
-using 3 instead of “three”
-using “Vols.” instead of “volumes”
In a cryptic crossword, “Hard word in 3 Vols.” would mean you’re to form an anagram with “3 Vols”, possibly using the 3 as an E for extra zaniness. That allows “solve” or “loves”. The “Hard” part would either be there to tip you off to upcoming wordplay, or could itself be a synonym for part of the answer. You could wind up with Tough Loves or True Loves for instance.
I usually stay away from this king of approach, but this line is just so jarring, it really seems like some kind of self-imposed constraint is at work.

I love the way you think, treetops. I’m convinced “free association” has no place in a popular puzzle and I know preiss knew that. I like how your solution here is just based on hard evidence, and a popular puzzle style that is whimsical enough that it might appeal to Preiss

gManTexas

If we look at V10 and P9 as being paired and in Vancouver, where does that leave us with V5 and P12? Are you also taking Montreal out of play?

No and No.
Realistically there’s a broad number of ways to assign meaning to these puzzles. People can make any pairing work if they really try hard enough. I’m trying hard to refine my understanding of just what kind of approach makes sense when I look at some core elements of the puzzle.
P12 has the Russian topaz. The strongest visual piece of information suggests the Statue of Liberty. This makes it easy to develop a theory for a NY setting.
P9 has the Lowland Gnome’s opal. The strongest visual clue so far is the leg-eater. This makes it easy to develop a theory for Montreal.
I think there’s a LOT of latitude in how people ascribe meaning to words or figures. I can’t say with certainty that my pairing notions are on track, but like I said, I think an association with rhapsody and soil to Burns works more than it does with Gershwin.

erexere

No and No.
Realistically there’s a broad number of ways to assign meaning to these puzzles. People can make any pairing work if they really try hard enough. I’m trying hard to refine my understanding of just what kind of approach makes sense when I look at some core elements of the puzzle.
P12 has the Russian topaz. The strongest visual piece of information suggests the Statue of Liberty. This makes it easy to develop a theory for a NY setting.
P9 has the Lowland Gnome’s opal. The strongest visual clue so far is the leg-eater. This makes it easy to develop a theory for Montreal.
I think there’s a LOT of latitude in how people ascribe meaning to words or figures. I can’t say with certainty that my pairing notions are on track, but like I said, I think an association with rhapsody and soil to Burns works more than it does with Gershwin.

I still not 100% following you. If we still have P9 in Montreal, yet you are bringing Vancouver into the mix by virtue of V10, how are they connected? Also, if we are reassigning V10, then does it no longer go with P12? Or, are you saying that they overlap and are woven further into each other? If so, then I can understand. I do believe that there are connections among the verses and images, but we have to be very careful when doing this, because there are many historical figures that can be ascribed to many areas, like Twain for example.
I, for one, believe that while being vague and making us dig for info, Preiss gave us solid hits for placing us in a specific locale. Otherwise it would be virtually impossible to locate these casques, and I really see Gershwin as being a better geographical locater than Burns.

Everyone else can stick with V10 for NY.
I’m going to evaluate V10 for Canada.
I understand you’re saying Gershwin’s soil, Brooklyn, NY is a geographic locator? Remind me how Gershwin makes a good Hard word in 3 Vol. reference? I think of Gershwin as a musical reference more than a “Hard word” or literary/oratory connection where I believe Burns wins out.
The casques are virtually impossible to locate. Gaining permission to dig, also a Herculean task.

erexere

Everyone else can stick with V10 for NY.
I’m going to evaluate V10 for Canada.
I understand you’re saying Gershwin’s soil, Brooklyn, NY is a geographic locator? Remind me how Gershwin makes a good Hard word in 3 Vol. reference? I think of Gershwin as a musical reference more than a “Hard word” or literary/oratory connection where I believe Burns wins out.
The casques are virtually impossible to locate. Gaining permission to dig, also a Herculean task.

I didn’t say Gershwin fits “Hard word in 3 Vols.”, he fits the rhapsodic man part. See my posts in this thread from last night. I believe Patrick Henry, the Lion of Liberty, fits that verse. In fact we have a partial image of a lion on Lady Liberty in Image 12.
I think the fact that it’s partial tells us that we are looking for more, like the rest of the name. This leads me to Patrick Henry McCarren, senator from Brooklyn. I have a few posts about in this thread from earlier. Sorry, I’m not sure how to link a previous post(s), just scroll back a bit.

erexere

Everyone else can stick with V10 for NY.
I’m going to evaluate V10 for Canada.
I understand you’re saying Gershwin’s soil, Brooklyn, NY is a geographic locator? Remind me how Gershwin makes a good Hard word in 3 Vol. reference? I think of Gershwin as a musical reference more than a “Hard word” or literary/oratory connection where I believe Burns wins out.
The casques are virtually impossible to locate. Gaining permission to dig, also a Herculean task.

I didn’t say Gershwin fits “Hard word in 3 Vols.”, he fits the rhapsodic man part. See my posts in this thread from last night. I believe Patrick
Henry
, the Lion of Liberty, fits that verse. In fact we have a partial image of a lion on Lady Liberty in Image 12.
I think the fact that it’s partial tells us that we are looking for more, like the rest of the name. This leads me to Patrick
Henry
McCarren, senator from Brooklyn. I have a few posts about in this thread from earlier. Sorry, I’m not sure how to link a previous post(s), just scroll back a bit.

Ah right. I see you’re looking at Patrick Henry in 1982. I don’t like it, since I’m working on more old time connections and historic firsts, where they Fair Folk would play on some theme.
I’ve probably been overly focused on connecting so many lines to Burns. Hard word/rhapsodic man/isle of B… Could be as dangerous as the fact that Twain wrote about everything under the sun…

Ah right. I see you’re looking at Patrick
Henry
in 1982. I don’t like it, since I’m working on more old time connections and historic firsts, where they Fair Folk would play on some theme.
I’ve probably been overly focused on connecting so many lines to Burns. Hard word/rhapsodic man/isle of B… Could be as dangerous as the fact that Twain wrote about everything under the sun…

erexere

Ah right. I see you’re looking at Patrick Henry in 1982. I don’t like it, since I’m working on more old time connections and historic firsts, where they Fair Folk would play on some theme.
I’ve probably been overly focused on connecting so many lines to Burns. Hard word/rhapsodic man/isle of B… Could be as dangerous as the fact that Twain wrote about everything under the sun…

erexere, I’m talking about Patrick Henry, the founding father, and Partrick Henry McCarren born 1849 – died 1909. I’m saying that the natives of Brooklyn were probably still talking about McCarren in 1982. Just the fact that he has a park and pool named after him means they were talking about him, especially since the pool had become run down in the years leading up to the book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_H._McCarren
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarren_Park
I really don’t see a Burns connection. Also, it makes a lot of sense to have the NYC puzzle rooted in Brooklyn where Preiss was from.

erexere

Ah right. I see you’re looking at Patrick
Henry
in 1982. I don’t like it, since I’m working on more old time connections and historic firsts, where they Fair Folk would play on some theme.
I’ve probably been overly focused on connecting so many lines to Burns. Hard word/rhapsodic man/isle of B… Could be as dangerous as the fact that Twain wrote about everything under the sun…

erexere, I’m talking about Patrick
Henry
, the founding father, and Partrick
Henry
McCarren born 1849 – died 1909. I’m saying that the natives of Brooklyn were probably still talking about McCarren in 1982. Just the fact that he has a park and pool named after him means they were talking about him, especially since the pool had become run down in the years leading up to the book.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patrick_H._McCarren
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McCarren_Park
I really don’t see a Burns connection. Also, it makes a lot of sense to have the NYC puzzle rooted in Brooklyn where Preiss was from.

Oh. I was so confused, because I didn’t see the leaps you were making. We’re just developing different tracks. I respect you’re approach to the puzzle. I noticed you’re working on some Russian connections too, which is great for a P12 theory.
Not too long ago I was heavy on the Native poet Pauline Johnson track, since she had a poem titled “In the shadows”. I’ve thought it’s possibly not connected at all as I work on the Burns theory, but the fact remains that her writings are very involved with the same park we find this Vancouver Burns statue.

if those tiles in the image are showing subway stops, then maybe, it is near the B5 stop or subway stop
and look, i’m believing in his “obscure” synonyms
from album to volume:
http://thesaurus.reference.com/browse/album
maybe “in the shadow” means right under the bridge
look at the mugwumps on p. 147, look at that “v” on the cable, and the podium looks like the bottom of the tower thingies and there is a place where marine (devil dogs)  ave. meets it, and then on p. 146 with the gavel , the l
loops
, is that area still part of the park boogie, or is it far away from where u’ve been looking? on google earth it says it is still john paul jones park.
look at the blue tile:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/army_arch/3147915902/
on the tax burden, too, there is a  “v” and some loops, p. 215, kindof looks like the revolutionary war memorial (rock)
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/1993680335/
“escaping thru a “
loophole
guess that podium on the mugwumps could be the base of the obelisk or the triangle

erexere

Wicket, oddly enough I feel that the casque is located in a place like Endor. (Stanley Park, Vancouver BC.)

I like that!

I’m working on becoming more dogmatic and inflexible in my approach to this puzzle. I’m still pinning my colours to the OHP mast.
The kind of questions that tax me are:
Is that the skate park (too new) in the top right?
Has it made any other incursions in the park?
What are the other features; eg, the thing to the right of that V below it?
Where are those horse heads?
Am I going to find a stereogram in Image 12 before I go blind looking for it?

okay, one more thing on “harmony”………the peace bridge
you always hear peace and harmony together
and also another peace symbol is the “V”, (you know, with the fingers making a V)

I was lucky enough to be in Battery Park NYC one day in 1984 when they were filming
Desperately Seeking Susan
.  TOTO’s song
Rosanna
was about Rosanna Arquette who starred in that movie with Madonna.  Great song.  Showing my age.

boogieman

I was lucky enough to be in Battery Park NYC one day in 1984 when they were filming
Desperately Seeking Susan
.  TOTO’s song
Rosanna
was about Rosanna Arquette who starred in that movie with Madonna.  Great song.  Showing my age.

Desperately seeking Susan was a good film. But talk about
age
–when you said “Madonna” I thought of Jesus’ mom.

Euhirudinea

That was me. And if you think that I think that Josh is “just another crazy poster”, then you really haven’t been paying attention. The jury is still out on Wicket.

Look, if I can’t utterly skewer facts while rashly judging others, then there’s absutely nothing good abiut my special brand of mental illness

Unknown

Unknown:
Look, if I can’t utterly skewer facts while rashly judging others

Do what you like DN. What I like to do is set the record straight whenever possible. All part of the plan to get my status upgraded.

So, on with the hunt! Can anyone tell me what is MISSING from the painting? Sometimes we get so caught up in what is there that we miss extremely obvious clues that are missing. BTW, It is not LOLA’s crown.
Maybe we can work together

Mister EZ

I’m glad to see there’s a board game version of that.
Gonna rush out to Toys R Us and buy one for…oh. Wait….

I have one I can lend you.

Wicket

So, on with the hunt! Can anyone tell me what is MISSING from the painting? Sometimes we get so caught up in what is there that we miss extremely obvious clues that are missing. BTW, It is not LOLA’s crown.
Maybe we can work together

At this point, I think it would be wise to read through the entire threads about this verse and whichever painting you want to pair it with. These threads are getting so redundant and I’ve not even been on this forum very long. I can truly see how frustrating these repeated conversations must be to people who have been part of this forum for 15 years.
I’m all about fresh eyes but not if people aren’t reading what’s previously been written. I have been guilty of this myself. Please go back and read.

The jury is still out on Wicket.
At least I am getting a trial but I want a new attorney.

I’m all about fresh eyes but not if people aren’t reading what’s previously been written. I have been guilty of this myself. Please go back and read.
So, what was the answer? And where is the answer located in NYC?

Wicket

The jury is still out on Wicket.
At least I am getting a trial but I want a new attorney.

And here I was hoping your skills would be helpful. I have been suspecting some sort of cryptogram but I don’t know that you are the one for the job. Good luck finding your attorney.

Wicket

I’m all about fresh eyes but not if people aren’t reading what’s previously been written. I have been guilty of this myself. Please go back and read.
So, what was the answer? And where is the answer located in NYC?

I searched this subject and did not come up with a specific hit. Maybe my answer is different. And I do know where it is located.

Unknown

Unknown:
At least I am getting a trial but I want a new attorney.

Everyone gets a fair trial from me. But they have to represent themselves.

I don’t know what to make of it and haven’t really looked into it, but I just noticed that the line, “Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”, is a lipogram (
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipogram
).
Notice that the line is constrained to 3 vowels (o, i, a), and avoids the letter “e” by using a number and an abbreviation instead.

i looked up composers on coney island and found woody guthrie lived on mermaid avenue.  he  wrote “This land was made for me and you”, which goes with the immigration theme, i think.
and there was the Half Moon Hotel with a great mosaic dome:
http://www.coneyislandhistory.org/mrconey/
i haven’t found a great picture of the mosaic dome yet, but it was on the west side of coney island, i believe, like where guthrie lived..
it was demolished in 1996.
the arch with the mosaics (in the picture)  could be for half of a moon
or maybe a reference for henry hudson’s ship the Half Moon
also, while i’m back on coney island, wanted to mention luna park:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/47967505@N00/316762895/

tht sure doesnt look like a promising place to dig

Ashsimmonds

Has anyone mentioned America: an epic rhapsody by Ernest Bloch. It’s in three parts and was inspired when Bloch read some Walt Whitman. Not sure what particular Whitman work. It was composed in San Fransico and first performed in new york. Pretty weak link until you learn, the first movement is called: The Soil – the Indians (England) the mayflower – the landing of the pilgrims.
I would argue this connection has more strength than Gershwin, as natives are mentioned, soils mentioned plus a link to immigration.

Just had to mention this (for giggles): If you check out Wikipedia (and other sites) on Ernest Bloch, there is a Bloch Memorial which was dedicated in 1976 at Agate Beach, OREGON. That is apparently where he lived most of his life – the rhapsodic man’s soil.

Again, wow. Things keep getting more strange around here.
In “The Shadow” by HC Andersen, we encounter a fascinating story about a man’s shadow separating from its host to live its own life in the world and grows stronger to the point that it eventually gets married and has his former self executed. It reminded me if the story about Ged in Ursula K. Leguin’s Earthsea story.
Given the subject of a person becoming split into to separate lives, I wonder if that relates to the Little Mermaid, who uses transformation to go from her life in the steeple deep sea to a life on land, or relates to the poet Pauline Johnson who has the Native Indian name which means “double-life”.
I think it makes sense grounding our investigation in the observation that image 9 is a caricature of Hans Christian Andersen and the idea that “In the shadow” points us in a literary or fairy tale direction which was found relatable to a real person, Pauline Johnson named Tekahionwake for being half Mohawk and half English.

Actually, as was suggested previously, Vancouver is the perfect location for the Gnomish opal, because the name “Vancouver” suggests a Dutch origin. A lot of Dutch people have the word “van” in their name.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Van_(Dutch
)

Unknown

Unknown:
“The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
There is a play on words there, i can feel it.  Can I ask if this capitalization is in the book?

This darn quote keeps haunting me.  The way it is worded seems to “make” us think of a large book – 3 volumes, but what if it means something completely different?
vol – definitions:
5 entries found for vol.
vol.
abbr.
volcano.
volume.
volunteer.
[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
vol·ca·no    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (vl-kn)
n. pl. vol·ca·noes or vol·ca·nos
An opening in the earth’s crust through which molten lava, ash, and gases are ejected.
A similar opening on the surface of another planet.
A mountain formed by the materials ejected from a volcano.
——————————————————————————–
[Italian, from Spanish volcán, or Portuguese volcão both probably from Latin volcnus, vulcnus, fire, flames, from Volcnus, Vulcan.]
[Download or Buy Now]
Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
vol·un·teer    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (vln-tîr)
n.
A person who performs or offers to perform a service voluntarily: an information booth staffed by volunteers; hospital volunteers.
Law.
A person who renders aid, performs a service, or assumes an obligation voluntarily.
A person who holds property under a deed made without consideration.
Botany. A cultivated plant growing from self-sown or accidentally dropped seed.
adj.
Being, consisting of, or done by volunteers: volunteer firefighters; volunteer tutoring.
Botany. Growing from self-sown or accidentally dropped seed. Used of a cultivated plant or crop.
v. vol·un·teered, vol·un·teer·ing, vol·un·teers
v. tr.
To give or offer to give voluntarily: volunteered their services; volunteer to give blood.
v. intr.
To perform or offer to perform a service of one’s own free will.
To do charitable or helpful work without pay: Many retirees volunteer in community service and day care centers.
——————————————————–
3 volumes, 3 volcanos, 3 volunteers…..

I was just thinking there might be some play on the words in verse 10.. My thoughts are what if the isle of B is really the aisle of B.. In which case the Mall in Central Park could fit that description. Along the Mall from the South to the North is Burns – Bandshell – Beethoven – and Bethesda Terrace. I would say that would fit the Aisle of B. Also what if the word root is really route. A simple Route could be a small street or path..That would put a different spin on it altogether. Just food for thought.

Arrgh FRSTPRZFA,
not more plays on words.  first cat finds the Vols and now this?
And I thought I was getting somewhere with this book,lol.
great idea on isle/aisle & roots/routes.  Back to the drawing board.

also, while wracking my brain thinking back to the dark ages when I took geomotry…when you are finding the Volume of something, the measurements are cubed or times 3.  Could this be another measurement or could we be looking for a cube?  who knows, just thought I would add yet another twist to this V.

Egbert

How is Nat King Cole of “Hard” word?

sorry, did not mean NKC, HARD WORD…the old vinyl LPs
in 3 Vols…….NKC just happen to be vol3
http://thumbs2.ebaystatic.com/d/l225/m/ … LfEvWg.jpg

Isle of Basalt?  A volcanic peak formation is easily an isle if enough water is introduced around the base…
I’m beginning to consider the Tule Lake / Lower Klamath Basin area which is very active in its Native Indian history and also an area where water irrigation and reclamation took place in order to support a large influx of new inhabitants (immigration?).  It was also a Japanese American Intermnent camp.

In the Stanley Park theory, when looking at a map, its possible that the 9 O’clock Gun landmark serves as one of the points on which we set a compass leg. This connects to another point of interest and using that established distance, the compass walks to a third point of interest. This would be twice as many steps as the hour.

I may have read them in those classes, too. But the fact that I do not remember doing so means that, for all practical purposes, I have not read them. I am such a lousy American.

MF,
I’ve read them, studied Jefferson and Madison quite a bit. I’ve hosted conferences on Nullification.
Is this a joke I missed or do you think there is a reference?

If you have the time, read the Federalists papers and everything Hamilton wrote. Then get back to me. Right, Forest Blight?

Right!
But I am hardly in a position to demand that, since I have not done so myself

boogieman

If you have the time, read the Federalists papers and everything Hamilton wrote. Then get back to me. Right, Forest Blight?

how did you get through high-school without reading the federalist papers,
I ended up having to read them twice,
once in history and once in goverment.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/abound
From the Latin form of abound,
abundare
, it means overflow,
run over
.
The arm that extends has cars running over head.  Not the correct context of the word but if you play with it, run over
fits nice.  With that, I’m going back to the big v that supports the Verrazano on the JPJ side.  From there you can look or gaze north, past the gazebo towards Liberty Island.  Take the 22 steps from the west end of the v and go east.  The support has many tiers of rock that I’m going to consider branches for now, and hope the 22 steps takes me to the middle of one of them, then start digging.  The thinking here is that BP must have buried it by a permanent structure, unlikely to be touched.

Merlot Brougham

What about this verse locks it in to Image 12? we take it for granted because someone suggested Gerswhin for “Rhapsodic Man’s Soil”. Is there anything beyond that or have we all just been operating under the assumption that this is the NY Verse?

Merlot Brougham

Grey is spelled with an “E” deliberately. Still trying to figure out why.

We can’t be 100% certain, but the Isle of B and Liberty, together with Gershwin and other suggestions like Hamilton, helicopters etc make it pretty convincing.
The line: “Take twice as many east steps as the hour” also ties in with the way Image 12 has a clock, which narrows down the options further. It wouldn’t go so well with Image 9 for example. And MF has a point about the ‘chain reaction’. Putting this with anything other than Image 12 would cause disturbances in the aether.
It seems like a non-issue to me. I’ve always regarded the two spellings as interchangeable.

Ya know Stercox, I should sometimes just have my fingers removed.

Okay, I haven’t followed this verse too much. I’m in New Orleans, trying to rule out verses that aren’t verse two.
I got to thinking about “Of Hard Word in 3 Vols.”
In the 1600s, glossaries were frequently referred to as ‘hard-word’ dictionaries.
http://phrontistery.info/glosstitle.jpg
From the devil Wikipedia:
“Webster thought that Americans should learn from American books, so he began writing a three volume compendium, A Grammatical Institute of the English Language. The work consisted of a speller (published in 1783), a grammar (published in 1784), and a reader (published in 1785)”
Might there be any other Websters (possibly Daniel) that may trigger any thoughts?
My $0.02

That would, of course, be Noah Webster.

its helicopters doing tourism, traffic reports (on the bridge) and medivacs (at nearby hospital). so would be busiest in winter.

Touche!  Pepe Le Pue

Egbert

“[T]he smatterer in science … thinks, that by mouthing hard words, he proves that he understands hard things.”
—Herman Melville, “White Jacket,” Ch. 63 (1850).

LIKE!

What’s that from? How difficult would it have been to know in 1982?

That is from one of Melville’s books. Not Moby Dick, which was written in 3 volumes.
Here’s an excerpt from a page from The Life and Works of Herman Melville:
Joseph Conrad
Years ago I looked into Typee and Omoo, but as I didn’t find there what I am looking for when I open a book I did go no further. Lately I had in my hand Moby Dick. It struck me as a rather strained rhapsody with whaling for a subject and not a single sincere line in the 3 vols of it. –Letter to Humphrey Milford, January 15 1907
http://www.melville.org/others.htm

Not a fan, personally. Very obscure.

“Blows and hard words are mostly Redburns lot on the Highlander”
Redburn. His First Voyage, by Herman Melville

I’m starting to think the the verse should be read:
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
In summer

It changes the meaning of the shadow.

The whirring sound could be an air conditioner.

Wonbadappl

The whirring sound could be an air conditioner.

How would that be human powered other than flipping a switch?

What I mean is …. If we take the verse and split it up so that it says “you’ll often hear a whirring sound, cars abound”… It may mean the cars are making the sound and not just in summer?

karleen

How would that be human powered other than flipping a switch?

Maybe the sound is people on roller-blades and skates.

Maybe he means subway cars !

Like the ones under the grates in the sidewalk.

Wonbadappl

Maybe he means subway cars !

Don’t they run all year long?

And now the dots in the photo make sense …mosaic subway tiles?

MERLIN

Don’t they run all year long?

Yes……but he says “often”….if you connect “summer” to the lines before it , then subway cars run underfoot “often”

In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
In summer

Then this would mean subway cars :
“You’ll often hear a whirring sound
Cars abound”

Wonbadappl

In the shadow
Of the grey giant
Find the arm that
Extends over the slender path
In summer

So maybe were looking for a large monument with a long shadow in summer that extends over a small path?

Then we are back to Karleens question.

MERLIN

Then we are back to Karleens question.

I dont think the Japanese translation is exact….the trains are human “driven”

Stercox,
Your thoughts are true with all of the verses – local site details versus
overall theme details.  As was designed in 1981 – this arguement would hold
a lot of merit – but in today’s environment with the internet and photo sharing –
it holds less wieght and secrets are harder to desiguise.
My research on Gershwin has found two parks:  Brroklyn (renamed to Linden)
and Gershwin Park, San Deigo.

stercox

Rhapsodic man may also be a historical figure or personality local to only the area near the burial site–not necessarily known on a national/famous level–like a Gershwin.  May be the reason for being stuck on this with regard to research.  Just a thought.

We don’t know what
may
be or what might
not necessarily
be until we solve it.  Therefore all ideas must be considered. Of course Stercox, I value your opinions, but this last quote seems to put the kabosh on Rhapsodic man.  I know however that was not your intent. There must be a true meaning for the use of Rhapsodic, other than mere poetry.
rhapsodic
: characrteristic of, or having the nature of rhapsody; extravagantly enthusiastic; ecstatic.
Maybe we are looking for an ecstatic poet or song writer whose soil is at the foot of their monument.

johann

This verse may be connected to Vancouver (and image 12).  “him of Hard word” may refer to the President Harding’s Visit memorial in Stanley Park in Vancouver (see my post in the image 12 thread).
Stanley Park has a path/road that appears to wind around near the Lion’s Gate Bridge in West Vancouver.
www.trailcanada.com/photos/photos-bc-17-08.asp
The bridge appears to loom over the trail, as the verse says:
In the shadow / Of the grey giant / Find the arm that / Extends over the slender path . . .
Also, off West Vancouver is Bowen Island, hence “the isle of B.”

Nice work Johann… maybe we have finally found the 1 Canadian casque?  Looks like it’s time to immerse myself into the Vancouver skyline and noted statues/memorials so we can link this with a P.
pic 39 wilhouse?   :-\ me confused  I like your “volumes”

Good luck on your dig tomorrow (Thursday) Boogie!  I sure hope you find it.  You deserve a find with all of your work on JPJ.  Don’t forget to bring a long an empty jar just in case.
…and, if I were you, I would come prepared with digging utensils instead of hoping another truck will pull up
Best of luck my friend….

hey Aces…nice finds.  is very interesting that I came across Grey Point last night before reading these posts.  Now, what exactly is Grey Point or Point Grey?  If there is a hill or mountain here, couldnt that be the GREY giant in and of itself?

I think Trohn mentioned this a while back that this concrete wall is shaped like an up-side-down v.
Can we incorporate this into the verse?
middle of one branch
?
I wonder, and I’ll see when I get there, if 22 steps puts you at the center of it.  If the top part is the one branch,
then the base would be the same.(almost)
Edit: Looking up tree names that start with a V, Why? I don’t know.  Only one.
Virburnum plum leaf
.
Maybe in the middle of one branch of this tree, if there is such a tree in JPJ Park…..

Tough location to find exactly one spot to dig.
(and tough verse)
Enjoy the spring now that it is finally here.

erexere

I must say it’s a fun exercise thinking about NY and verse 10.  I spent a lot of time dinking around Ellis Island and took the Staten Island Ferry a few times.
I can’t say any whirring ideas come to mind.  If anything, whirring must be associated with a “fan” type of machinery…and then summertime…conveys sunlight, heat, vacation, etc.  I was vacationing, it was summer, my family thought it would be fun to go see the SoL.   …hmm, “sol” is sun right?  sol + R = solar.   Just free associating here, could the latin “R” sound where the tongue rolls kind of a whirring??
The use of “Or” in the verse interests me, it’s an option clue.  Option A or B.  Hmm… the thematic inference here is that we are in a position to make two choices.
NY is a tricky place to work with.  It’s got it all.

I have another meaning for S.O.L. that fits well into this hunt!!!

karleen

Out of curiosity, why would native New Yorkers still speak of Dickens? The verse implies that talking about this person would be routine or commonplace. How does Dickens do this for NY?

I think by natives, he’s not referencing anyone specifically. He’s just speaking relatively about the people of that area where he is trying to lead you to with that clue. If each line in the verse is leading you somewhere or at least trying to help verify that you’re in the right place, this line wouldn’t be any different. I’ve always read that line as, “If I’m in the right spot for this clue, whoever this is referencing must have been important to this area.” I think when the Japanese clues came out and people started referencing Dickens, it set off some alarms because of the 3 vols and Hard Words being very specific to Dickens. Specifically referencing Hard Times, which was written in 3 books or volumes (Sowing, Reaping, and Garnering). There is also a very famous path that Dickens took when he came to New York City. It started in lower Manhattan near the Trinity Church spot where Hamilton is buried. So I guess in taking all of those clues and lining them up, it just made sense? Obviously, that could all be wrong because we’re still looking for this thing, but I think that’s one of the best guesses I’ve seen for now.

By referring to the shadow of the flagpole, I was pointing out that the tall monument and the pole itself could be concidered east and west.  Steps.

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2& … &encType=1
FB, are you trying to say something here?  “W” and “v”?
Go to the link above.  On the left, you’ll see the weather vane type direction key with the arrow.
Click on the N for north.  This will give you a view from the south.  The trees make the shape of a v with the flagpole in the middle of one branch of it.  I like that a little better than NAvY.  It seems that you wouldn’t be able to bury something at the foot of a plaque either.  So take twice as many east steps from the flagpole.
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
= 22 steps.  The X spot. (pic still open for debate-slightly)
The next lines of the verse descibes the starting point- and how to recognize it
or more, from the middle of one branch of the v
=the v is the trees and the
branch
is the side with the flagpole situated in the middle of the one row.  Take the east steps from there, after first….
Looking down, and see simple roots in rhapsodic man’s soil
= the JPJ plaque at base of pole.  Now what about the next two lines?
or gaze north, towards the isle of B.
= for now, still only assuming, after getting to the 22 step X spot, face north towards Bedloe’s Island.  Can’t see the spot east of the pole to well from the satellite.  Must take pics from there.
If this ain’t the place, we sure squeezed it in there pretty darned good.

Where did you say that giant W was FB?
boogie…another thought (as if we need more)..looking at your link, especially the small map section, we have V’s everywhere…and one giant one staring us in the face… 4th Ave.  Could our V be a street intersection or path intersection?

At this location, the SHADOW
is only the bridge.
The overpass is always bathed in darkness,
at any time of the day or year.

fox

Where did you say that giant W was FB?   😛
boogie…another thought (as if we need more)..looking at your link, especially the small map section, we have V’s everywhere…and one giant one staring us in the face… 4th Ave.  Could our V be a street intersection or path intersection?

Fox, you look great!!!
Back to the hunt:  Good ideas Fox, but where would you be if you stepped east from that corner?
Or gaze north towards the isle of B.
= Could just mean that in order to read the plaque from the right direction, you must be facing north.  Start the steps from there.

Trohn

At this location, the SHADOW
is only the bridge.
The overpass is always bathed in darkness,
at any time of the day or year.

The way I’m trying to interpret the verse is that the
Shadow
is the entire NYC Harbor.  In the shadow is the Narrows Inlet.  The
arm
is the bridge.  The shadow from the pole was meant only to reference east to west.
I’m also trying to say that if the plaque is the only reference to JPJ, that this must be what you find in the middle of one branch of the v in rhapsodic man’s soil.

I agree.

I am thinking that this verse may refer to New York City.  The “gray giant” could be the Statue of Liberty (Image 12) or just a tall building.
“Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B.”
Liberty Island used to be known as Bedloe’s Island.
“In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound”
There are ferries in New York which make a whirring sound.
Cars abound there of course.
“Look down
And see simple roots
In rhapsodic man’s soil”
George Gershwin (Rhapsody in Blue) grew up on the lower east side of NYC.
“Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native”
Indians (aka Native Americans) used to live in NYC, so there must be signs around.  Battery Park is at the tip of NYC, and you can see the Statue of Liberty from there.  The National Museum of the American Indian is located at the tip of Battery Park.
“The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.”
I agree with Catherwood on this — definitely cryptic.  Why abbreviate the word “volumes”?
Just some things to stir the pot.

JamesV

Great point…and why is “Hard” capitalized?

3 volunteers = 1 “him”

Spiritr

3 volunteers = 1 “him”

It wouldn’t be “Three volunteers”. The implication would be something like “3 NY Vol. Infantry”, or something similar.

or someone who specifically volunteered for service 3 times

wow….

drunknerds

I’m thinking Him of hard word in three volumes is Preiss.
Each casque had a piece of paper with WORDS on it detailing how to redeem the key. These hard words are in three volumes: the volume of space inside the casque, which is in a volume of space taken up by the box, which is in a volume of space taken up by the hole

I don’t know where you heard that, I checked with the finders of the Chicago casque on the content of the plexglass box
there was the casque and lid and the key, no paper- no padding, nothing else. No instructions to the finder were included in the Chicago casque.

So why is Hard Capitalized?

several possibilites not limited to…
it is referencing a particular word that is on a sign or something and that word is capitalized
It is denoting it is an extremely Hard word more than just a hard word
It is noting it is a synonym or a play on words
It is denoting a name

I’m thinking Him of hard word in three volumes is Preiss.
Each casque had a piece of paper with WORDS on it detailing how to redeem the key. These hard words are in three volumes: the volume of space inside the casque, which is in a volume of space taken up by the box, which is in a volume of space taken up by the hole

Or Vols stands for “volunteers” and not “volumes”.

Merlot Brougham

Or Vols stands for “volunteers” and not “volumes”.

Just a thought on “Hard word in 3 Vols.” that I was wondering what other people thought of. So for every year a newspaper or another type of periodical is in circulation it is designated as one volume. Here’s a wikipedia page with an explanation for anyone curious.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Periodical_literature
So my basic thought on this is that “Hard word in 3 Vols.” just refers to a publication that was only around for 3 years. Hard words in this instance perhaps referring to “Hard Copy” which today generally means something printed from a computer but it is an older phrase that started out just meaning anything printed. I can find differing sources of when it originated ranging from the 1950s to the 1880s but suffice to say the phrase was around for Preiss.
So in researching notable NYC publications that only existed for 3 years the one that jumped out was “Freedom’s Journal”, the first African American newspaper in the US, but I couldn’t find anything about a plaque or something that might serve as a waypoint for the verse. Interesting though was a picture of an original issue that does show “Vol. 1” right on the front page meaning that that sort of stuff was very common in periodicals of the time right down to the Vol. abbreviation.
Does anyone know of any other publication that might fit the criteria of three years? Or perhaps a paper that had a notable writer on staff for three years? For example I noticed Walt Whitman was the editor of the Brooklyn Eagle from 1846-1848, that could make Walt Whitman “him of Hard words in 3 Vols.”. Or does anyone know of any periodicals that were circulated among New York Nativist groups like the Bowery Boys? That would explain the reference to “natives” just before.
Sorry if this has been brought up before but I searched the thread for discussion about newspapers and didn’t find anything.

i already got both…one is harding (that relates to a statue in cp…the bolivar statue)…one relates to a 3 vol novel.

one also leads you here
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poets%27_Corner

Merlot Brougham

Or Vols stands for “volunteers” and not “volumes”.

Great point…and why is “Hard” capitalized?

Slappy,
Shecrab made that Cartier connection on the 13th “page” of the Verse-5 thread.
AP

John LaCorte?  I have no idea.  Image 12, to me, has the Verrazano (nice pic BTW slappy), II WTC, and Lady Liberty.  I wpould love to put them all somewhere more definitive, but..  Verse10 has the slender path, the Indies native, rhapsodic man, the grey giant.  I’ll get this @#$*_%#  of a  @#$%* soon!  With all of your help.

Slappy,
The “arm” could be something as simple as this
found in Liberty State Park almost due West from the Statue of Liberty.
I do not know what it is…but it could be a “sculpture” of some sort.
Just thinking that it may not have to be on as grand a scale as a bridge.

just an idea guys, but maybe it means “find the arm that extends over the narrows”, and not the bridge…and i’m thinking
“in summer”……….        “to reside during the summer, of or relating to summer”……………….means like shore road, or south beach……..
wouldn’t that fit with what malted is saying?
that’s as far as i got

But what could “arm” refer to, if not the bridge?

Unknown

Unknown:
just an idea guys, but maybe it means “find the arm that extends over the narrows”, and not the bridge…and i’m thinking
“in summer”……….        “to reside during the summer, of or relating to summer”……………….means like shore road, or south beach……..
wouldn’t that fit with what malted is saying?
that’s as far as i got

Here’s the grey giant.  Two WTC.  Hey, no antenna in image 12….
The fact that the verse reads “
over the slender path
” and not “
into
the slender path”, I take it to mean it cannot be a pier or a penninsula.  It has to be a bridge.  Or something that sticks out over the path, like an arm of a legeater lamp post.

Just thinking of “rhapsodic man’s soil”…
Of course Gershwin comes to mind.
Ira or George?  Ira was born in Chinatown.
George was born in Brooklyn, but grew up in the
lower east side of Manhattan.
Of course, BP could just be referring to somewhere
in New York in general.
AP

Given the choice of Ira or George, I’d choose George. He wrote “Rhapsody in Blue.” Ira’s input was limited to suggesting the title.

Look at this link for the lower east side of Manhattan (speaking of gershwin).
Hamilton
Fish Park!  This is the kind of thing that makes you nuts…
I’m linking it because I still can’t figure out how to save an image from local.live.com
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=2&F … &encType=1

Unknown

Unknown:
I still can’t figure out how to save an image from local.live.com

Hey cool, it even looks like an arched window (sort of).
Just hit the PrntScrn key on your keyboard, then paste into Windows Paint; edit, save, and post.

forest,
the arm could be the statue”s arm…………………….
if that is marble instead of eye charts, seems like most of it comes from long island. i was reading about the marble on the met life building, my roundabout research.
scotrocks, that maple leaf design you mention or see in image 9, could be the new york leaf design for the parks.
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.h … A96E958260
i live to confuse….lol

Well, I’m officially scrubbing the Japanese Intermnent theory.  Ain’t nothing to do with fair folk I guess…actually I’m restructuring my approach based on maltedfalcon’s encouraging posts.
Now, I feel like I have evidence of a picture path, now to apply the verse. Mim looking at a chunk of granite that has a speech from Harding in his address to the Canadians. The monument was dedicated by Kiwanis, an obscure organization that I only heard of when I got an award in 1986 from John Adams Highschool in NY.  The name Kiwanis is based on a Native American etymology.  Harding’s State of the Union speech was published in a 3 vol. collection of presidential speeches from 1790-1966.

burnstyle

Who is Bill, and why would his daughter care?

You know, Bill the Intern, the guy at Byron Preiss Visual Publications who way back in the 1980s swiped Byron’s solutions sheet for The Secret from right off his desk! He’s sitting at home laughing at us as we endlessly try to solve these impossible puzzles. True story!

Mr. Bill… OH NOOOOO…

premiernc

I have already sent the solve to a person interested and it was forwarded to one of Bill’s daughters.

Who is Bill, and why would his daughter care?

Good Hunting!

Unknown

Unknown:
You guys gotta convince me before I go out there.  Hour and a half away

Boogie: Working on it.  The reason I initially thought the VNB could be the “gray giant” was because when the Secret was published in 1983 the VNB was the longest suspension bridge in the world.  Certainly a giant then as well as now.  In addition, Fort Hamilton is in the shadow of the VNB, and that is a solid Alexander Hamilton connection to the area surrounding the VNB.
The GW bridge area deserves a fair shake though, since there are also many Hamilton connections in its shadow as well.  In addition, the Hildegard H. Swift children’s book,
The Little Red Lighthouse and the Great Gray Bridge
seems to also connect Verse 10 with the GW bridge.
So I am still opened minded about both sites, but I am concentrating more on the GWB and its environs  at this time.  Nothing wrong with investigating both sites though, and keeping the ideas flowing.  The more brainstorming the better in my opinion.

kato, I agree totally with that last statement.  I have looked at the GWB many times and will keep looking all over NYC. (and NJ)  I dont care where it is found.  But before i go treking up to the GWB, I’ll need to see more connections.  I’ve been looking since this was brought up.  Again, great views from
local.live.com
.

Here’s an interesting location…
http://farm9.staticflickr.com/8310/8005173998_79aefe7349_z.jpg

i know i jump the gun on ideas, sheesh i spent hours on bowling green because it being wedge shaped (which meant to me like a “v”) and the native american museum there…then to columbus park because of chinatown  but this one i really think fits:
look at this map:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo%2C_New_York
turn the picture sideways with her head right……
i went there because of the catskill word
and then i found this “rhapsodic soil” : The Symphony Circle in Delaware Park
http://preserve.bfn.org/bam/kowsky/kowold/
http://preserve.bfn.org/bam/kowsky/kowo … ce/23.html
delaware park, buffalo new york
for the rest i think you have to be there.
what do you guys think?
i know you guys are better researchers than me so maybe you can find better pictures, if so please post them!
i’m not any where close to new york and don’t see any possibliity of ever getting there again
doesn’t this look good? whoever is close to buffalo please let me know what you think! thanks

AP, when i google earth that address…it’s on manhattan near the same “Central Park”  that BP said there wasn’t one hidden. (still could be one outside of the park)
i did get the feeling of Norman Rockwell when reading some parts of the fair folks……(i’ m thinking it was with the french image)
i still like : “find the arm that extends over the slender path”, to be Long Island and Verrazano Narrows bridge
you’ve got “arm” (inlet of water, or the bridge) and “extends” (to make longer, (long))……long island
and the first two lines should be telling you which roads to take, i think, i hope…………i am just wondering if we have the wrong image for new york………..

Slappy,
I believe that BP did prefer out-of-the-way places.
There are a couple of small parks in this
area…Owl’s Head Park is situated on
the shoreline side with a view of the Statue
of Liberty and other islands.  I will have to
research this park and others to see if
there are any visual confirmations.
Norman Rockwell’s birthplace was Amsterdam Ave. & 103rd Street, New York City.
It is also on Manhattan.  But he does seem to fit the clues for “him of Hard word”.
AP

Museum of American Illustration New York Cit
Address: 128 E. 63d St. New York NY 10021-7303 …
If you Google on the address of this museum, which memorializes
Norman Rockwell, you will see that it is in the close proximity
to the Narrows bridge and Central Park (another park created by
Frederick Law Olmsted.  (as are several other parks related to this hunt).

This is a great theory, Malt, were there not such strong support linking V6 to Charleston.
One suggestion: I see no reason to associate “grey giant” with the Citadel. Why can’t it be a tree, and the “arm” could be a branch that extends over one of the park paths? There are plenty of large live oaks in that park.

Three vol.s may refer to picture 39, which shows two “volumes” (to the left and right of the harding face). Perhaps there’s another one on the other side.
there’s also statues to Robert Burns and shakespeare
wilhouse

Love your words FB. Can I have one? What label do I get?

Fox,
I have a word for you…
Frabjous
…It’s like fabulous, but with a lemon twist.
(word credited to Lewis Carroll…)
AP

Thinking about the line:
“natives still speak of him of Hard word in 3 Vols”
Isaac Bashevis Singer  was a 1975 Nobel prize-winning Jewish writer.
He lived in New York City for several decades and wrote about Jewish life.
He wrote in Yiddish…which could be considered
Hard
words.
(There was a well known 3-volume English-Yiddish dictionary published in 1965.
or it could refer to volumes of Singer’s own works.)
Singer is buried in Cedar Park Cemetery, 735 Forest Ave, Paramus, NJ 07630…not
really
close…but in the area.
This information may not lead directly to a casque, but it could explain the reference in the verse.

cormac I went back and reread page 45 #665, a lot of it makes sense.
one question I would like to ask though is about the Isle of B.
how does Isle of B translate to Bailey fountain? I get the B and Bailey, but Isle and fountain?
its the opposite of one Isle = land surrounded by water, fountain = water surounded by land.
I dont see the connection logically in a way that makes me go – oh yeah!

Lat_ninram

First time post, but long time viewer (well at least since September 2018). Attached is a link to our family ‘solve’ for the NY casque (in pdf with all of the clues from the verse and the image that led us to the location). The casque is buried beneath a tree in John J. Carty Park in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn (in the literal shadow of the Verrazano Bridge). I am sorry to say that the casque is irretrievable for now because it was buried at the edge of a 2’x2’ tree pit 37 years ago and the tree in that pit has grown so large that its trunk (and roots) now cover the casque site. We dug in January 2019 with NYC Parks Department approval (after a previous dig in a nearby area in the same park in September 2018, also with approval), using a certified arborist with an air spade, but we were unable to get beneath the trunk of the tree. We do not have a casque in hand, so we look forward to being challenged. Much of the credit for our solve comes from the lively discussions on Q4T and from some of the clues on the Wiki!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BB9n … sp=sharing

I have the exact same solve location and have been sitting on it but I do have some different interpretations, I visited the park Dec. 23 last year and you can tell once you are in the park that it is the location. I also feel I found the “Aha Icon.” I was planning on writing everything up in a nice PDF and putting forth my idea this Spring. Plans have changed I guess
I have much much more to add but it will take some time to make it presentable.
View of the Verrazzano from Carty Park
Great minds think alike! More to come!

First time post, but long time viewer (well at least since September 2018). Attached is a link to our family ‘solve’ for the NY casque (in pdf with all of the clues from the verse and the image that led us to the location). The casque is buried beneath a tree in John J. Carty Park in Bay Ridge, Brooklyn (in the literal shadow of the Verrazano Bridge). I am sorry to say that the casque is irretrievable for now because it was buried at the edge of a 2’x2’ tree pit 37 years ago and the tree in that pit has grown so large that its trunk (and roots) now cover the casque site. We dug in January 2019 with NYC Parks Department approval (after a previous dig in a nearby area in the same park in September 2018, also with approval), using a certified arborist with an air spade, but we were unable to get beneath the trunk of the tree. We do not have a casque in hand, so we look forward to being challenged. Much of the credit for our solve comes from the lively discussions on Q4T and from some of the clues on the Wiki!
https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B5BB9n … sp=sharing

kellter

I have the exact same solve location and have been sitting on it but I do have some different interpretations, I visited the park Dec. 23 last year and you can tell once you are in the park that it is the location. I also feel I found the “Aha Icon.” I was planning on writing everything up in a nice PDF and putting forth my idea this Spring. Plans have changed I guess

It’s Fudgie the Whale!

From the waves I see slight downhill road with a 95 which I interpreted as end of 95th St. Where Carty Park is. The St. Patrick’s Roman Catholic church is located at 4th and 95th, one block up from Hamilton Parkway and is slightly visible from the park but does not have onion domes.

Nice one Kelter. I didn’t see that 95 until you just pointed it out, and it matches the other 95 on her neckline (although probably better to post the images clues on the image 12 board). Glad that you found this ‘solve’ as well. Look forward to seeing your other clues and catching up sometime.

My interpretation of him of Hard word is from the plaque honoring John J. Carty.
him of Hard word with Capital H could be the New York Times which is known to have arguably the hardest crossword and whose clues purposely start out with capital letter .
From Wiki:
Times style is to always capitalize the first letter of a clue, regardless of whether the clue is a complete sentence or whether the first word is a proper noun. On occasion, this is used to deliberately create difficulties for the solver; e.g., in the clue “John, for one” it is ambiguous as to whether the clue is referring to the proper name John or to the slang term for a bathroom.[22]
Also a tip for anyone who may start researching this, there is a more famous John J Carty, American electrical engineer 1861-1932 who is NOT the Carty dedicated to the park.
Went down a bunch of wrong John J. Carty rabbit holes!

You guys talking about NY and NJ may want to take a look at these pics first.  They were found by Pine Tree, if I recall.
http://www.holyres.org/eng.htm
Go to “Photo Albums” “Sobor Views”
Also go to “Church History” “The construction of the new Church” and “External Views of the present Church”
My money is on Vancouver for this treasure.  I can’t find any other good pics of this church.
Also, Verse 10:  “Him of Hard word in 3 Vols.” has got to be the Harding Memorial.  It even has the bird in Image 12 (though not an exact match, I admit).
Look at #38-40.
http://www.seestanleypark.com/statplaq/page9bstat&plaq.htm
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/sva/bc/van_01/pg_14e.htm
http://collections.ic.gc.ca/sva/bc/van_01/pg_12e.htm
I have searched high and low for a rear view of the Harding Memorial, but I have not found one.  I would love to see if his words are on 3 tablets rather than just 2.  I have seen a close up pic of a lion’s face on the rear of the memorial, but there is no large pic of what else is back there.
The Grey Giant?
http://www.trailcanada.com/photos/photos-bc-17-08.asp
The arm that extends over the slender path?  Look at #33-34.
http://www.seestanleypark.com/statplaq/page9bstat&plaq.htm
Or perhaps Pic #1.
http://www.seestanleypark.com/statplaq/page9astat&plaq.htm
I am hoping that this will attract some interest in Vancouver again, and perhaps we can do some deeper digging.  I think we have found that nearly every Image has some geographic outline.  Perhaps those lines in the water in Image 12 is an outline of Vancouver or Stanley Park.
I am also posting this in the Image 12 thread, so we can have a summary of the Vancouver findings.

I like the tree by JPJ Park across from Jackson Ct., but I have a hard
time envisioning Byron Preiss digging  so near to the residential buildings…
so I kept looking around the area.
The strip of parkland along the shore (West of Belt Parkway) gives a
more secluded place for BP to dig unseen…There is a parking area
close to the possible tree…easy enough for BP to drive there with
his shovel in the trunk.
The “arm” that extends over the slender path can be the overpass
which extends over the Belt Pkwy…
(A
belt
can be a slender strip or band) and the
Parkway can be a
path
. ..a slender path.
The sidewalk splits into a “v”…from which you can walk in an East direction
to a very familiarly-shaped tree.
From there. you can see a nearby sign for Ft. Hamilton…and can also
gaze North to see Liberty (Bedloe’s) Island…all in the shadow of the grey giant (Verrazano Bridge).

i’m sorry boogieman,  just can’t seem to find that “thing” that will make it click

cant remember anymore,prospect park and,why did we move away from it
found this you couldnt get any more rhapsodic,5 composers,in a small area
boogie hope you have kids that like adventure, in brooklyn ny,seems your spring,
summer like your going to be busy there
In rhapsodic man’s soil
prospect park
http://newyorkcitystatues.com/prospect-park/
interactive_map,chose monumebts only
http://www.prospectpark.org/visit/inter … _grove#map
Concert Grove
http://www.prospectpark.org/visit/places/concert
Places to Go
http://www.prospectpark.org/visit/places
videos
http://www.prospectpark.org/about/videos

lol, cw, we’re gonna make him work for it
i’ve always liked prospect park because of olmsted, and i believe 22nd street was up there..we just have to convince them

Cormac

[
The Bailey Fountain

I’m thinking the sculpture part of the fountain rising from the water could be our “Isle”

Okay after doing some thinking and a lot of research I may have (using that loosely) figured out what the Hard word in 3 volumes is.
John Paul Jones is a war hero, as well as, a member of Led Zeppelin. A Led Zeppelin literally is a rigid war craft, making it a “Hard word”. Led Zeppelin’s albums were Led Zeppelin I, II, III. Three volumes. There is a fourth album which people call Led Zeppelin IV, but it was officially untitled.
Could this be the “Hard word in three vols.”?
If this is true, could that be the last piece? Is anyone up for digging in Brooklyn? I’m in NJ and it would be a short trip, but if someone would like to go that would be great too.

boogieman has always loved jpj park! i like the zeppelin part……..maybe there’s some album part in all of them?  the pink floyd one, now this! i like it.
boogieman?
i haven’t been looking at these because of the weather, but if you all don’t mind, i’ll start looking at the russian fair folks for this ok?  i don’t think it helped much, except maybe to keep interest alive.  would you rather i posted what i find in the fair folks thread?
i did find this pic of verrazano at battery park and i don’t think i had ever seen the lady with it b4.
http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC … nstat.html

I was enjoying my winter slumber you dirty dogs!
Just when you think you’re out, they drag you back in.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Led_Zeppelin_IV
I never thought about that fourth album.  Always thought LZ had 4 vols.  Nice find bemo12.  You got me going again.
I have always looked at a song from another album
Houses
of the Holy
called The Crunge.  At the very end of that song Robert Plant asks “Where is that confounded bridge?”.  Could he mean the Verrazano?  I would always come back to the Statue of Liberty as the woman in the song.
Now, how about
from the middle of one branch of the v
?  v = five?  or fifth?
The Crunge
http://www.sing365.com/music/Lyric.nsf/ … 870002F423

Pesky v.
I don’t think it would be the Verrazano because I think that that is our grey giant, so why repeat it twice?
Is there precedent in any of the earlier finds that a letter by itself could be the first letter of a word?

Choice

Thanks BS, these are the exact scans I have. I think I downloaded from wiki a while back. I can tell by spots and imperfections unique to that upload.

I’ve been meaning to make some new scans. I’ll pm you when I get them done

burnstyle

I’ve been meaning to make some new scans. I’ll pm you when I get them done

Hi Burnstyle -if it’s not rude to ask, uninvited-like – If you do decide to make some new scans, if you wouldn’t mind PM’ing me as well, I’d love to get in on that. If it’s no trouble and you don’t mind sharing with me. Thanks in advance.

burnstyle

I’ve been meaning to make some new scans. I’ll pm you when I get them done

You’re the best! Please save files in uncompressed TIFF format to avoid software compression anomalies. Thanks a bunch in advance.

As I’ve just posted on image12, I believe that we have to consider the “slender path” to be the Narrows Inlet and the “arm that extends” to be the Verrazano Narrows Bridge, if we believe that BP would use slender to tie in with Narrow.  The grey giant??  Needs a little more sorting out.

I like your slender=narrows idea!

one idea i had for isle of B….was the bailey fountain in grand army plaza in front of prospect park
B—aile—-y
seems like a play on words that BP would use
and also grand army plaza:
“It consists of concentric rings arranged as streets, with the outer ring being named Plaza Street. The inner ring was originally intended to be a circle,”
makes me think of the circles in the water in the image
(also saw the bailey seton hospital on staten island, the seton part came after the hunt i think )
had forgotten about gershwin being russian
wanted to mention the Brooklyn eagle newspaper,  at 28 old fulton street
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eagle_Warehouse
i like around prospect park becausse of lefferts homestead, and i remember somewhere in the book reading about lefferts curve
woody guthrie still comes to mind also for his song “this land is your land”  and he lived somewhere in brooklyn too
going to have to go back and look at cormac’s theories
thought this was funny, looking up dongan oak (simple roots)  and found thomas dongan and found he was the 2nd earl of limerick…….would a limerick be considered “rhapsodic”…………
http://www.andrewcusack.com/2006/01/16/thomas-dongan/

i like this idea of mine too (lol, i’m so humble)
you know how you use ” v ”   (little v)  for legal documents, meaning versus ( i think)
what if you read it “from one branch of the verses (instead of versus)( or “verse is”), and so somewhere in this verse- top part, bottom part, middle down, will spell out where………..like a crossword
what do you think?

capital letters with the words in the verse:
IndiesHardVolsB
BHind…………behind?…….but i can find a lot of words like…..solve……silver………dover (obelisk)

Nice work people!  Gershwin being russian is a new one for me.  But I cant forget about Wadsworth yet.  I have already planned out a trip to Staten Island.  Go to your favorite  map and look under the Verrazano  Bridge on that side of the Narrows.  I have never walked around down there so I need to
stand in the middle of both sides of the v bridge
to see the view from there.  The lack of visual confirmers for image12 are eating me alive.  I believe we can see the statue from there.  And back in the day, you could see the twin towers from anywhere.
From there i will take the nice long walk from John Paul jones Park up to Owl’s Head.  I need a month or two for it to warm up first.  But I think the bridge is do-able now.  There seems to be a large white stone on the Staten Island side.  I’ll go soon.  Dang, did i just say “soon”?

to Ward B in jersey city:
http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&expId … CBwQnwIwAQ
which to look north at we’d be in liberty state park, new jersey?

As you walk along Shore Rd, you pass by
Fort Hamilton High School.
This could be the “sign nearby that speaks of Indies Native”.