JoshCornell

there is a very simple logic, to discern a general starting point, though sometimes youre pushed back further overall. but lets do it this way…the face is from the statue…and what is the first clue…?

Again, let’s separate opinion from fact. It is your opinion that the Christopher Columbus statue looks like the woman in the image. It is not a fact. Please stop littering this forum with your self-proclaimed facts.

Euhirudinea

My guess is that they are going to be easier to find, relatively speaking. As we have found, the literary clues make a basic, but irrefutable connection. So it’s important that they exist, and that you could find them if you knew what you were looking for. That, to me at least, seems pretty clear. It’s only when we try to expound on their significance that we start arguing.

yeah was really a rhetorical question

im not even addressing you…let follow reply to his/her own query ffs.

JoshCornell

im not even addressing you…let follow reply to his/her own query ffs.

Perhaps you should have sent a private message then hahahahaa

why would i do that? you could just not troll. that would be sufficient…

Unknown

Unknown:
yeah was really a rhetorical question

Shouldn’t have been. It was a good question to ask and answer.

Euhirudinea

Shouldn’t have been. It was a good question to ask and answer.

Fully agree. Well not so much rhetorical, however, more of a question to ask, think about, and try to answer. I just meant it as I was not asking in hopes of someone answering it, but more in hopes of asking to try to really figure out why. Rhetorical was a poor word choice on my part

forest_blight

That fountain is already near the top of my list, eljayo.
I can’t remember, but didn’t someone say the fountain was installed after
The Secret
was written?

I think I posted this before, forest. This is a pic after the renovation though
I was freaking out when I first seen it until I found out.

Yeah, I know (*sigh*). But I felt pretty good about that one when I first saw that photo, and nothing you say to me can take that away, party-pooper!
So I was in downtown Boston today. I traipsed all over Boston Commons and the Public Garden, then down to Copley Square and the BPL. Took a few pictures, but nothing you guys haven’t already seen. I soaked up every statue, plaque, ornament, and architectural detail along the way, too, but nothing grabbed me. Great town, but so disappointed. I need more time here.
The interior of the BPL is magnificent. Definitely see it if you visit Boston.

A first-hand perspective on any of the proposed locations would normally trump any theory we cook up.  Even so, I’m looking for anything with consistency and a spot to put a shovel.
Taking another look at the Charlesgate site in front of the historic Somerset building, here are four globe lights:
A fifth globe light is sitting all alone in this short fenced-off portion of the park,
This precise spot interests me for a variety of reasons,
The letters of the CITGO sign are viewable from this spot, especially given that at one point a metal box sat on the cement pad and a person standing upon it would have a better chance of noticing the sign.  This goes with verse 3’s line “All the letters / Are here to see” [SEE it go! -Fenway Park term for hitting a homer]
“Eighteenth day / Twelfth hour” is consistent with the
Landlord’s Tale
, a Longfellow poem,
Listen, my children, and you shall hear
Of the
midnight
ride of Paul Revere,
On the
eighteenth
of April, in Seventy-five;
Hardly a man is now alive
Who remembers that famous day and year.
and which also makes mention of the Somerset,
Silently rowed to the Charlestown shore,
Just as the moon rose over the bay,
Where swinging wide at her moorings lay
The
Somerset
, British man-of-war;
A phantom ship, with each mast and spar
Across the moon like a
prison bar
,
And a huge black hulk, that was magnified
By its own reflection in the tide.
“Feel at home,” the line preceding “All the letters,” is perhaps a good way to think of this spot in two ways: 1) The Landlord’s Tale presents the opportunity to associate the word “home” with “landlord”, and “letters” is a great association to Longfellow given his work was primarily epistolary, 2) Baseball motif where standing on the metal box you see the CITGO sign and the globe portion of the lamp is like a giant “Tee Ball”.
“Lit by lamplight / In truth, be free,” the ending lines of verse 3, brings focus to the precise spot where the casque is buried.  I think there’s something clever going on in the final words.  The letter “T” is all you need to represent the word “Truth”.  A “home run” is a good way of saying “be free”.  Once the ball is over the fence, runners head to home without fear of being tagged out.
“If Thucydides is,” makes the best possible introduction to this puzzle.  Thucydides is EXILED from Athens.  Exile or imprisonment is essentially seperating or excluding one from society.  I am taking that notion and applying it to the Charlesgate site with the four globe lamps gathered in the area and the one sitting in the fenced portion as representing the theme of exile.  The Longfellow-Baseball motif neatly wrap things up to suggest a spot right next to the base of the exiled lamp.  I think the falcon perched on the “T” is a good indication that we dig right in the T portion of the fence.
The thing I find most settling in my approach is that Preiss starts this puzzle with an ancient Greek reference to support the spin on things having to do with HOMER.  He then utilizes the perfect place where he can blend the poet Longfellow’s “Home” orriented reference in the Landlord’s Tale and the well known baseball reference of a “home run”.
Kit Williams’ Masquerade was cool, but this the most perfect puzzle I’ve ever seen.

Unknown

Unknown:
Nowadays, I suppose no one reads Horace Walpole. [discusses how Walpole invented serendipity via Three Princes of Serendip
fairy tale
] The outstanding example of Serendipity is the discovery of America. Columbus stumbled by accident and sagacity on an unknown continent.

Just wanted to jot down a few of my recent thoughts after reading all 140 image 11 posts and most or all of the verse 3 posts. This stuff isn’t new just my thoughts on how it all comes together (spoiler alert it probably doesn’t but I’ll try my best)
Starting points
Boston Public Library is still the best we got. It has the names written on the facade, it’s a fantastic place with tons of history that Byron would’ve loved. The main issue is there are no clear image connections in the area, and it’s kind of an unclear direction given in the verse.
A nearby image match pandoras box (3 or 4 blocks away) is the
Castle at Park Plaza
. Interestingly this building was designed by
William G. Preston
who also the old Coliseum a possible verse match which was located in Copley as well. Also this building is on Columbus Ave (see next section). And also, it’s design (and really all
Romanesque Revival architecture
building were probably influenced by Walpole’s Strawberry Hill, which looks a lot like the box as well and obviously is referenced in the verse).
The Christopher
Columbus Connection.
There is a small verse literary match for Christopher Columbus:
The first two lines reference Walpole, who invented the term serendipity. In this
letter by MJ Rosenau
(1935, Harvard Medical School, Boston)
Also I do think the face of Pandora does match the christopher columbus statue (for me, the shape of the nose matches)
It’s a tempting to stretch this Columbus reference to the Leif Erikson statue (located in a very diggable fens area near 2c) (since Leif preceded Columbus like Thucydides preceded Xenophon) but there’s nothing I’ve been able to to find to confirm the connection in the image or verse.
Where to go from BPL
North to the Esplande.
It’s like 5 blocks to back street North. You can then “your back to the stairs” (back st to the pedestrian bridge “stairs” to the esplande). “All the letters” might also match the alphabetical street names you pass along back street to the bridge. Then possibly “18th day, 12th hour” can refer to the 1812 overture could be a reference to the Hatch Shell (which could also be an image mage) or the Longfellow bridge in the distance. No clear feel at home reference or in truth be free reference.
And from there we would need to figure out the rest of the verse/image matches to a dig spot. I also wanted to point out the Maurice J Tobin statue (and the arthur fielder bridge plaque and a paul revere plaque at the paul revere mall) by the Hatch Shell is kind of interested because it was sculpted by
Emilius Ciampa
who immigrated to the North End from Italy at a young age and did some cool shit. I can’t find any clear verse/image connections though to Tobin/Ciampa though.
Southeast to the Fens.
It’s about 5 or 6 blocks from the BPL to the fens. Southeast might make sense because it’s the direction or Lief Erikson (or where he is pointing) (Thucididyes to Columbus’s Xenophon) or it’s just the direction of New York referenced in the walpole letter.
After arriving in the Fens it’s somewhat unclear what to do. There are some juicy verse matches (all the letters=fenway victory garden paths) (feel at home = others rest), but not a good match for “18th day/12th hour” or “in truth be free”. There are plenty of cool lamps though.

dosethree

Just wanted to jot down a few of my recent thoughts after reading all 140 image 11 posts and most or all of the verse 3 posts. This stuff isn’t new just my thoughts on how it all comes together (spoiler alert it probably doesn’t but I’ll try my best)
Starting points
Boston Public Library is still the best we got. It has the names written on the facade, it’s a fantastic place with tons of history that Byron would’ve loved. The main issue is there are no clear image connections in the area, and it’s kind of an unclear direction given in the verse.
A nearby image match pandoras box (3 or 4 blocks away) is the
Castle at Park Plaza
. Interestingly this building was designed by
William G. Preston
who also the old Coliseum a possible verse match which was located in Copley as well. Also this building is on Columbus Ave (see next section). And also, it’s design (and really all
Romanesque Revival architecture
building were probably influenced by Walpole’s Strawberry Hill, which looks a lot like the box as well and obviously is referenced in the verse).
The Christopher
Columbus Connection.
There is a small verse literary match for Christopher Columbus:
The first two lines reference Walpole, who invented the term serendipity. In this
letter by MJ Rosenau
(1935, Harvard Medical School, Boston)
Also I do think the face of Pandora does match the christopher columbus statue (for me, the shape of the nose matches)
It’s a tempting to stretch this Columbus reference to the Leif Erikson statue (located in a very diggable fens area near 2c) (since Leif preceded Columbus like Thucydides preceded Xenophon) but there’s nothing I’ve been able to to find to confirm the connection in the image or verse.
Where to go from BPL
North to the Esplande.
It’s like 5 blocks to back street North. You can then “your back to the stairs” (back st to the pedestrian bridge “stairs” to the esplande). “All the letters” might also match the alphabetical street names you pass along back street to the bridge. Then possibly “18th day, 12th hour” can refer to the 1812 overture could be a reference to the Hatch Shell (which could also be an image mage) or the Longfellow bridge in the distance. No clear feel at home reference or in truth be free reference.
And from there we would need to figure out the rest of the verse/image matches to a dig spot. I also wanted to point out the Maurice J Tobin statue (and the arthur fielder bridge plaque and a paul revere plaque at the paul revere mall) by the Hatch Shell is kind of interested because it was sculpted by
Emilius Ciampa
who immigrated to the North End from Italy at a young age and did some cool shit. I can’t find any clear verse/image connections though to Tobin/Ciampa though.
Southeast to the Fens.
It’s about 5 or 6 blocks from the BPL to the fens. Southeast might make sense because it’s the direction or Lief Erikson (or where he is pointing) (Thucididyes to Columbus’s Xenophon) or it’s just the direction of New York referenced in the walpole letter.
After arriving in the Fens it’s somewhat unclear what to do. There are some juicy verse matches (all the letters=fenway victory garden paths) (feel at home = others rest), but not a good match for “18th day/12th hour” or “in truth be free”. There are plenty of cool lamps though.

With regards to the esplanade. There is a perfect fit for “feel at home”. The signs on sorrow dr., which are viewable from the esplanade, have read IF YOU LIVED HERE, YOU’D BE HOME NOW. been there since the 60s.
https://imgur.com/a/pQ1j1bU

strike13

sorrow dr.

Possibly the most accurate typo ever.

BINGO

Possibly the most accurate typo ever.

Hahahaha! it is full of sorrow yes…love it! hahaaha!

Just a thought about the last line. In truth, be free. This line along with the idea of the bench/calendar lineup got me thinking about the song/poem “On Washington’s Birthday”, which I thought I saw mentioned by someone before a while back. Perhaps we’re not to use April from Revere’s ride to orient the benches but maybe some connection to Washington’s Birthday in 1732. Maybe February of 1732. Or maybe April of that year to tie in both Washington and Revere. Again, just a thought.

Deuce

Just a thought about the last line. In truth, be free. This line along with the idea of the bench/calendar lineup got me thinking about the song/poem “On Washington’s Birthday”, which I thought I saw mentioned by someone before a while back. Perhaps we’re not to use April from Revere’s ride to orient the benches but maybe some connection to Washington’s Birthday in 1732. Maybe February of 1732. Or maybe April of that year to tie in both Washington and Revere. Again, just a thought.

The idea is that we have to use the numbers in the lines for something, just like Cleveland and Chicago. So, if we have to find the 18th of something, what is the most important missing information?
… The number of things in total! We need to find a certain number of things so we can go to the 18th. How many are there in total? That isn’t specified in the verse.
Well, the lines in the poem are taken from the Longfellow poem that describes Paul Revere’s ride on April 18th. That would make 18 out of 30… or the total number of days in the month of April. Now we know what 18 is out of!
And, what do you know! There are 30 benches in front of you when staring at “WATER” with your back to the stairs!

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156936251@N07/
Please view photos and written solution on Flickr. The link is above.There is a lamp post base at 12 plus 18 pavers from the base of the stairs at the WWII Memorial. Walk the edge of the curved sidewalk and then the straight sidewalk. It is under 4 inches of dirt and I believe that is where the casque was buried. When the Korean and Vietnam Memorials were put in I believe they took out the old lamppost and put in a new one at the end of the sidewalk. The site would be about 4 feet off the sidewalk and the cherry tree is nearby. It is a white cherry tree and only blooms in May. Under the dirt is an old conduit. The new conduit to the new lamppost is modern material. The casque could still be there but needs more digging. The best next steps are to check out the Boston Public Library to see if there are photos of the original lamppost. The Historical Society or Green Necklace Society may also have photos taken before 1988 when the two new memorials were added. The cherry tree is significant in that it represents “in truth be free” a nod to George Washington who stayed in the same house at Harvard that Longfellow stayed in years later. “I cannot tell a lie” and ties it to the Paul Revere Poem. Probe around and see what you can find. I am sure it was there but with construction not any more.

elizabethmcfarland

https://www.flickr.com/photos/156936251@N07/
Please view photos and written solution on Flickr. The link is above.There is a lamp post base at 12 plus 18 pavers from the base of the stairs at the WWII Memorial. Walk the edge of the curved sidewalk and then the straight sidewalk. It is under 4 inches of dirt and I believe that is where the casque was buried. When the Korean and Vietnam Memorials were put in I believe they took out the old lamppost and put in a new one at the end of the sidewalk. The site would be about 4 feet off the sidewalk and the cherry tree is nearby. It is a white cherry tree and only blooms in May. Under the dirt is an old conduit. The new conduit to the new lamppost is modern material. The casque could still be there but needs more digging. The best next steps are to check out the Boston Public Library to see if there are photos of the original lamppost. The Historical Society or Green Necklace Society may also have photos taken before 1988 when the two new memorials were added. The cherry tree is significant in that it represents “in truth be free” a nod to George Washington who stayed in the same house at Harvard that Longfellow stayed in years later. “I cannot tell a lie” and ties it to the Paul Revere Poem. Probe around and see what you can find. I am sure it was there but with construction not any more.

Has anything really changed since the first two times you posted this?
EDIT: I mean, beside posting it this thread, this time, instead of the image 11 thread…

Mister EZ

Has anything really changed since the first two times you posted this?
EDIT: I mean, beside posting it this thread, this time, instead of the image 11 thread…

Right there with you EZ!
“Walk the edge of the curved sidewalk and then the straight sidewalk.”….where would one come up with these as directions anyway?

There is a flower bed on the church’s property, and it’s in the middle section.   BP could easily have buried it there without being seen.  But I’m not digging there…
You might find the following helpful —
http://www.flickr.com/photos/bclews/
http://www.crocker.com/~bclews/

But he wouldn’t have buried it in the flower beds!! the rules say there ARE NO CASQUES buried in flowers beds.
I am intrigued by that sidewalk pattern on the north side of the plaza…can we get more pics of that area?

shecrab

But he wouldn’t have buried it in the flower beds!! the rules say there ARE NO CASQUES buried in flowers beds.
I am intrigued by that sidewalk pattern on the north side of the plaza…can we get more pics of that area?

I thought either the chicago or cleveland casque was buried in a planter (flower bed) behind the statue?

No not really….the casque was behind the wall, not in the flower beds. Here’s a pic of the wall:
You can see more pics here:
http://images.ulib.csuohio.edu/cdm4/item_viewer.php?CISOROOT=/gardens&CISOPTR=9&REC=2

For those who are wondering, here is the thread where the Cleveland find was described by the finder, Egbert.
http://www.quest4treasure.co.uk/forum/index.php?topic=1126.45
It’s page 4 of the thread “Cleveland” in this forum.
There is information there we probably ought to review.  It gives some insight as to the verse and the find and the location.
And I may be wrong about the casque being buried behind the wall–it may not have been. I don’t know how accurate the newspaper article was. But it
still
was not buried in a flower bed. Note that all the elements of the verse are in the find–but not AT the location of the find! The fountain is not pinpointing the exact location. The verse describes elements from all over the area. The Terminal Tower is quite a distance from the Cultural Gardens–not even in the same area. So things in the pictures CAN be away from the casques burial site–they dont’ have to all be right there.

Verse 3
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
A green tower of lights
In the middle section
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
With metal walls
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free.
I have just had an apithany!!  We have been interpretting this verse slightly wrong
and its been causing us grief…. let me tell you…..(a few people probably will not be happy)
I had this thought after reading the new post talking about the publicness of the Copley Square….
Here is what we ALL have been doing wrong… ‘A Green tower of lights’ does not get linked
to ‘in the middle section’  They are completely seperate clues!
In the middle section tells you that that is where the burial site is (either in the middle of the
library courtyard – or in the middle of the Church’s garden)  I think it is the first becuase of…
The last four lines (Paul Revere)  He saw his one latern in the North Church Tower.
If you are standing in the middle of the libarary and look North – you can see
the ‘green tower of lights’ of the Old South Church – doing exactly what Paul Rever did!!
Since the courtyard has been totally redone, the other clues may not be available anymore.
I have a thought on ‘all the letters are here to see’
What if this is a Library sign (giving directions on the Fiction Section)
A-F (to the right)
G-S (to the left)
T-Z (in the basement)
How am I doing????

I have been thinking to that the middle section clue does not go with the tower…..the middle of what, i don’t know, but not the tower. When the last one was one all the clues were mixed up.

The image supports this theory – using Pandora’s box…
Why is the light emphasized coming out of the box??
Becuase the courtyard is open aired (and surronded – boxed in)

The Courtyard
Next to the quiet grandeur of the Main Staircase, the McKim Building’s deep interior courtyard delights and charms the visitor. It is a haven of peace and beauty rarely found in a public building.
The wall of the Main Staircase projects well into the courtyard. Along the other three walls rounds an arcaded promenade which is an almost exact facsimile of the arcade of the Cancelleria Palace in Rome. Frederick MacMonnies’ “Bacchante and Infant Faun,” is the bronze cast fountain statue.

Here is a (I think pre-renovation) photo of the courtyard.
Can someone tell me what are hanging on the walls surrounding
the court?  They look like small statues or busts….

“You enter the older part of the library from the Dartmouth Street side, passing under the motto “
Omni lux civium” (Light of all citizens)
through the
enormous bronze doors
by Daniel Chester French, the sculptor of the Lincoln Memorial. Or you can walk around Boylston Street to enter through the addition. The corridor leading from the annex opens onto the Renaissance-style courtyard — an exact copy of the one in Rome’s Palazzo della Cancelleria — around which the original library is built. A covered arcade furnished with chairs rings a fountain; you can bring books or lunch into the courtyard, which is open all the hours the library is open, and escape the bustle of the city. Beyond the courtyard is the main entrance hall of the 1895 building, with its immense stone lions by Louis Saint-Gaudens (brother of the more celebrated Augustus), vaulted ceiling, and marble staircase. The corridor at the top of the stairs leads to Bates Hall, one of Boston’s most sumptuous interior spaces. This is the main reference reading room, 218 feet long with a barrel-arch ceiling 50 feet high.”
“with metal walls”
Since there are two ways to enter the library/courtyard, the first part of the verse directs you to the correct entrance.
This would also explain ‘Take five steps’
Take the five steps into the libaray (from the Dartmouth entrance)
If you go into the library from the Boylston entrance, you would have to descend the great staircase to get into the courtyard.
That is not the intended path that the verse wants you to take.

“The McKim building contains an unexpected delight. At the top of the Main Staircase,
visitors can look down upon the wide, airy inner courtyard
. The other 3 sides of the courtyard are enclosed by an arcade
which is a copy of the arcade of the Cancelleria Palace in
Rome. In the center of the courtyard is a clear pool with waterfountains surrounding a bronze statue, “Bacchante and Infant Faun”, by Frederick MacMonnies. “
“near those” – the people on the top of the stairs (who pass and do not come down)
“the coliseum” – it is the courtyard itself
if your back is to the stairs, like in Cleveland where the wall hides you,
you can get some partial cover to dig without being seen from up stairs.

I was just looking at “In truth, be free” again….Thomas Hobbes “one can,
in truth, be free
to act; one cannot, however, be free to desire.”….and then I just read this quote about Thomas Hobbes “Thomas Hobbes, the noted philosopher and a
man of
letters
, who was tutor to Charles II, is buried here. Hobbes is world famous for his book “Leviathan”, foundation of the British liberal constitution.”
I’m not positive but I think the libraries rare book section has something of Hobbes.

I was just looking at “In truth, be free” again….Thomas Hobbes “one can,
in truth, be free
to act; one cannot, however, be free to desire.”….and then I just read this quote about Thomas Hobbes “Thomas Hobbes, the noted philosopher and a
man of letters
, who was tutor to Charles II, is buried here. Hobbes is world famous for his book “Leviathan”, foundation of the British liberal constitution.”
I’m not positive but I think the libraries rare book section has something of Hobbes.

I’m following Trohn…..  but what about Thucydides and Xenophon?  Did BP just mess it up, the area of his direction?  OK, tough digging in a courtyard.  If you needed “permission to dig out” I’d like it a lot better.
Insatiable, you’re gonna need lots of help with this one on Saturday.  Keep it fun though.  Alas, wish I could go with.

Is everyone sitting down….
http://muddyriver.typepad.com/photos/bo … /lib3.html
Look at the great photos of the courtyard..but look what else is in
BPL:
Someone want to copy this over to image 9.

insatiable

I was just looking at “In truth, be free” again….Thomas Hobbes “one can,
in truth, be free
to act; one cannot, however, be free to desire.”….and then I just read this quote about Thomas Hobbes “Thomas Hobbes, the noted philosopher and a
man of
letters
, who was tutor to Charles II, is buried here. Hobbes is world famous for his book “Leviathan”, foundation of the British liberal constitution.”
I’m not positive but I think the libraries rare book section has something of Hobbes.

BPL has a few rare Hobbes books…….. one of which is “Thucydides”

Holy crap!!!  That’s it.  I QUIT!!!!!!!!!

insatiable

I was just looking at “In truth, be free” again….Thomas Hobbes “one can,
in truth, be free
to act; one cannot, however, be free to desire.”….and then I just read this quote about Thomas Hobbes “Thomas Hobbes, the noted philosopher and a
man of letters
, who was tutor to Charles II, is buried here. Hobbes is world famous for his book “Leviathan”, foundation of the British liberal constitution.”
I’m not positive but I think the libraries rare book section has something of Hobbes.

BPL has a few rare Hobbes books…….. one of which is “Thucydides”

Here is the courtyard today:
All fine and dandy–but…where the five steps? Where the “feel at home”? Where the “Back to the Stairs?”
Again, I think too much is left out of this–despite your very good epiphany, Trohn–which I agree with–they ARE separate clues, and I’ve been sort of saying that for several posts–trying to explain that the clues are not IN ORDER or connected, but may be DISconnected and separated.

Trohn

Is everyone sitting down….
http://muddyriver.typepad.com/photos/bo … /lib3.html
Look at the great photos of the courtyard..but look what else is in
BPL:
Someone want to copy this over to image 9.

lol nice find trohn, I guess montreal is not the only place that has one of those.

boogieman

Holy crap!!!  That’s it.  I QUIT!!!!!!!!!

lmao i think im with you boogieman

shecrab

Here is the courtyard today:
[img=http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/4643/bpl2jh5.jpg]
All fine and dandy–but…where the five steps? Where the “feel at home”? Where the “Back to the Stairs?”
Again, I think too much is left out of this–despite your very good epiphany, Trohn–which I agree with–they ARE separate clues, and I’ve been sort of saying that for several posts–trying to explain that the clues are not IN ORDER or connected, but may be DISconnected and separated.

five steps :  takes one into the libarary
back to the stairs :  put your back to the wall of the grand staircase (making sure to face the water)
feel at home :  no idea.

I don’t understand….what’s so shocking? These are similiar elements, but the ones Melissa found earlier are better….I don’t get it..

shecrab

I don’t understand….what’s so shocking? These are similiar elements, but the ones Melissa found earlier are better….I don’t get it..

Shecrab-he posted that dog with the leg because of image 9…not image 11

I still think Trinity Church has too much in common with the image for it not to be right.
When the last casque was found all of the things leading to it were pictured in the image…..the lion head & fountain, the columns, the wall that the casque was behind.

Exactly—the dog/leg is fine–but the other one that was found in Montreal was EXACT…this one is just
similiar
. That’s what I said…I think we got a little excited here–a little too excited maybe. I liked the way we were going with this image and verse, and I believe that we can’t possibly consider Image 9 because the lat/long in that image don’t match Boston–so why would the rest of it? That vine design Melissa found earlier at Trinity is RIGHT ON. The ‘checkered’ pattern on the brackets holding the spheres were exact…not just similiar–patterns in the sidewalk and ceiling on the Trinity church–exact…the spheres, the Black Falcon, the castle on the box–even if it’s metaphorical (i.e., Castle
Island
) the bird’s claw, the collar and cuffs of the girls’ dress, the numbers, everything in this image points to Boston in SOME way. And–I know someone mentioned earlier that they thought the girl’s hair (down by the flower) might be a skyline–but it’s not–it’s a COASTLINE. It matches the WHARVES in Boston Harbor. Check it out on a map.
I don’t like the courtyard at BPL for quite a few of unmatched clues just aren’t there or aren’t clear. BUT…I’d be willing to dig there to see, because it’s changed a lot since 1982.  I’ve been thinking about something more confirming in that round window, too–maybe the numbers there ARE significant. After re-reading through the Cleveland and Chicago solves, almost NOTHING in the verse was left out or INsignificant. Though we know that the paintings might be different, I don’t think we can ignore obvious elements.

jsp

I believe the Walpole letter, if that’s what T&X refer to, are rather like the Melville quote in verse 1: not necessary to solve the puzzle, but helpful if you happen to know it.
I live in Boston and while I know the name Horace Mann (there’s stuff that’s named after him), I can promise you that it would have been extraordinarily rare for anyone to have read his letters, especially in 1983. Without Google or a searchable OCR database of the guy’s letters, the puzzle would have been borderline unsolvable at the time. I don’t dispute that it may very well refer to Boston (again, like the Hermann Park bit in v1), but there’s no way T&X were intended as the clues that reveal the city is Boston. To put it another way, there’s no way Preiss intended for the reader to have needed to read this one letter from Walpole in order to solve this puzzle.

I’m not saying that the Walpole quote is the ultimate solution to the Boston puzzle. However, everyone likes to use that quote as “reinforcement” or in addition to the T&X on wall at the BPL. If you start your search from that point, the directions are clear as mud.
What I am saying is that it is far more likely that Preiss would use a obscure quote with a connection to a local writer. Gilbert Parker being quoted in verse 5 is a perfect example. He was CANADIAN and it is absolutely irrefutable that his poem was included in the verse that many people attribute to the Montreal puzzle.
Since everyone loves to double down and find reinforcement for weak clues, “the next Augustan age” is your second connection to Walpole’s quote. Image 11 is the the Peridot puzzle, the birthstone for August.
It’s an easier stretch for me to think that Preiss included a quote from a local writer that could decipher the city AND potentially link the verse to an image.
But, by all means, head directly to the library, have a good look at the names on that wall, and then report back with your confidence level of what direction you were really meant to travel. Most people have a specific end point in mind before making an honest assessment of the clues (or lack there of).

strike13

For me, the wording that ties this verse to Boston is “18th day, 12th hr, lit by lamplight”
Not T & X and not those names with regards to the BPL

100% agree. That line is a lock for Boston in my eyes as well. One thing about it that I think is a little different is it can be associated with many possible locations within Boston and the surrounding area. It can be linked to Paul Revere, Longfellow and the Old North Church.
There are many important places in Boston that have specific ties to that historic ride and the poem that was written about it. I have a feeling that it is meant to be a nod to a location, just my opinion.

I believe the Walpole letter, if that’s what T&X refer to, are rather like the Melville quote in verse 1: not necessary to solve the puzzle, but helpful if you happen to know it.
I live in Boston and while I know the name Horace Mann (there’s stuff that’s named after him), I can promise you that it would have been extraordinarily rare for anyone to have read his letters, especially in 1983. Without Google or a searchable OCR database of the guy’s letters, the puzzle would have been borderline unsolvable at the time. I don’t dispute that it may very well refer to Boston (again, like the Hermann Park bit in v1), but there’s no way T&X were intended as the clues that reveal the city is Boston. To put it another way, there’s no way Preiss intended for the reader to have needed to read this one letter from Walpole in order to solve this puzzle.

jsp

I believe the Walpole letter, if that’s what T&X refer to, are rather like the Melville quote in verse 1: not necessary to solve the puzzle, but helpful if you happen to know it.
I live in Boston and while I know the name Horace Mann (there’s stuff that’s named after him), I can promise you that it would have been extraordinarily rare for anyone to have read his letters, especially in 1983. Without Google or a searchable OCR database of the guy’s letters, the puzzle would have been borderline unsolvable at the time. I don’t dispute that it may very well refer to Boston (again, like the Hermann Park bit in v1), but there’s no way T&X were intended as the clues that reveal the city is Boston. To put it another way, there’s no way Preiss intended for the reader to have needed to read this one letter from Walpole in order to solve this puzzle.

For me, the wording that ties this verse to Boston is “18th day, 12th hr, lit by lamplight”
Not T & X and not those names with regards to the BPL

BINGO

I don’t disagree with anything you mentioned here. Another thing that wasn’t available to Preiss or searchers from the time period is the wiki site and its solutions.
As a college student who finds the names on the wall while doing research for this puzzle, please explain how you get anywhere from the Library by using the verse. If you buy into the wiki explanations, I simply disagree with you.
They don’t make sense. There is no clear direction.
Many people think these puzzles are a walking tour and the iconic image is the usual starting point. Many people believe the iconic image is the Kelleher Rose Garden. Why do most people believe the starting point is the library? Shouldn’t it be the rose garden? (Seems like a more centrally located place when thinking about many of the proposed dig sites) Or is it because the names on the BPL wall match the first lines of the verse? Are we really trying a bit too hard to substitute 5 bus stops, 5 T-stops, 5 named streets, for 5 steps outlined in the wiki?
If you start at the library, you can molest the number 5 and the direction of travel enough to get anywhere you like in the city of Boston. I just don’t buy any of it. My opinion, feel free to draw your own or let the wiki make one up for everyone.

My first confirmer from the Image were the latitude and longitude numbers after reading the Verse. I didn’t say a college student necessarily found it on the wall doing research but maybe. I was just saying what I used to have to do when I was in college to find info. I would spend hours trying to find books to write college papers for different classes. Hell, I could write a paper today in an hour that would have taken 10 hours or more back in the 70s and 80s.
Now to answer your question about how to get anywhere if you start at BPL.
I was looking at West from a physical standpoint of which way I’d go if I were looking at the names on the wall of BPL. As you know, the name Thucyidides is above, or North of Xenophon on the wall. Now I can’t go up the wall, but I can walk in that direction. Next, one has to figure out what BP meant by “step”. The conclusion that had been thrown out about a “city block” made good sense (and for me has been confirmed in the Houston and SF puzzles). So if I go 5 blocks West I end up at the John Boyle O’Reilly statue. That statue helps connect the image and verses beautifully for me.
And I agree, you can molest the numbers and words in many ways. But as for the Wiki, they are all over the place with good and bad info.

ooh, I like the Greek tie in with the Church.  Nice one.  The BPL still seems an obvious point in this trail.  “All the letters to see” still seem to refer to the authors (or men of letters) in the library.
The last of this V seems obviously Boston and many other things fit…let’s find that Coliseum!
col·i·se·um also col·os·se·um    ( P )  Pronunciation Key  (kl-sm)
n.
A large amphitheater for public sports events, entertainment, or assemblies.
——————————————————————————–
[Medieval Latin Colisum, an amphitheater in Rome, Italy, variant of Latin Colossum, from neuter of colossus, gigantic, from colossus, huge statue. See colossus.]
colossus is a large statue….any Large Statues and not arenas around the area?
also..let’s find that P that goes with the V  😛

Fox,
I know you are trying to tie in image 11 with verse 3.  I don’t see much tie in really, BUT there is a castle at BU, which is nearby….  Fenway is right there as well.  I really think it is in this area.
ABQRAM

In Boston, just north-northeast of the Hatch Shell (coliseum? mentioned by Pine_Tree earlier) there’s a
Revere St
.  I’ve modified a map of the area to show the Boston Public Library, Hatch Shell, and Revere St.   I’ll post it here once I have a place to host it.

I wanted to share a thought that I had recently about the verse and its potential connection to Longfellow and see what others might think.
I grew up in New England and have spent most of my time in Boston and a small town in New Hampshire. Thinking back to history classes from grade school, I am fairly certain that every kid from the New England States learned about Paul Revere and his famous ride. The lanterns in the church, the route, the message, all of it.
Is it possible that Eighteenth day, Twelfth hour is simply a reference to history? Not the Landlord’s Tale? I fully understand that the poem is based on historical facts and this is an exercise in splitting hairs. I’m not a believer in Preiss adding red herrings to these puzzles, but could Longfellow be an unintended one?
Most of my research lately has been testing the proposed and accepted theories and clues that have been floating around for years. If you dig deep enough into most of them, their flaws begin to shine through. However, many connections to Longfellow exist and are completely valid. (2C site/Somerset hotel, Sites along the Esplanade/Longfellow Bridge, etc.) The problem is that they don’t ever get us to a clear finish line.
If we drop Longfellow, the story doesn’t change very much, but does it simplify things and help eliminate areas that have been fruitless?

BINGO

I wanted to share a thought that I had recently about the verse and its potential connection to Longfellow and see what others might think.
I grew up in New England and have spent most of my time in Boston and a small town in New Hampshire. Thinking back to history classes from grade school, I am fairly certain that every kid from the New England States learned about Paul Revere and his famous ride. The lanterns in the church, the route, the message, all of it.
Is it possible that Eighteenth day, Twelfth hour is simply a reference to history? Not the Landlord’s Tale? I fully understand that the poem is based on historical facts and this is an exercise in splitting hairs. I’m not a believer in Preiss adding red herrings to these puzzles, but could Longfellow be an unintended one?
Most of my research lately has been testing the proposed and accepted theories and clues that have been floating around for years. If you dig deep enough into most of them, their flaws begin to shine through. However, many connections to Longfellow exist and are completely valid. (2C site/Somerset hotel, Sites along the Esplanade/Longfellow Bridge, etc.) The problem is that they don’t ever get us to a clear finish line.
If we drop Longfellow, the story doesn’t change very much, but does it simplify things and help eliminate areas that have been fruitless?

Given the fact the there are a ton of literary quotes and references in the book, it seems reasonable to attribute the lines in the verse to Longfellow.

I’m much more accepting of dropping anything from a theoretical view and inspecting how it affects the feel of the puzzle. No matter how convincing nor good a fit something might seem, it’s not necessarily true to the intent or course of the puzzle.
A clear finish line is a great way to put it. The Boston puzzle has been a marathon of clashes in perspective. Getting things exactly right is not easy nor is it easy to test.

Boston is turning out to be another big dig, big dig 2.

Does someone want to post a photo of the
“green tower of lights in the middle section”
Tis the season….
http://travel.yahoo.com/p-travelguide-2 … g_boston-i
http://boston.about.com/od/thingstodo/a … masHub.htm

Verse 3
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Boston Public Library Facade (across street from Copley Square)
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
What are the five steps? (Library Steps?)
Who is he?  (John Copley Statue, recent addition)
A green tower of lights  Famous Boston Christmas Tree (seasonal though)
In the middle section      Location of the tree within Copley Square
(used to be a street splitting the square – has been
closed and part of the park for a while)
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
The street that passes the square towards the Boston Garden
(has been replaced – but location is known as North Station)
With metal walls
“the people passing the Garden continue along this street
also will pass ‘Old Iron Side'”
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
Your back to the library and across the street you are facing
the famous Copley Fountain
Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free.
Obvious reference to Paul Revere and the North Church
And another quote on the front of the Boston Public Library.
Anyone still around Boston for the holidays wants to explore this yet again?

Verse 3
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Boston Public Library Facade (across street from Copley Square)
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
What are the five steps? (Library Steps?)
Who is he?  (John Copley Statue, recent addition)
A green tower of lights  Famous Boston Christmas Tree (seasonal though)
In the middle section      Location of the tree within Copley Square
(used to be a street splitting the square – has been
closed and part of the park for a while)
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
The street that passes the square towards the Boston Garden
(has been replaced – but location is known as North Station)
With metal walls
“the people passing the Garden continue along this street
also will pass ‘Old Iron Side'”
Face the water
Your back to the stairs
Your back to the library and across the street you are facing
the famous Copley Fountain
Feel at home
All the
letters
Are here to see
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free.
Obvious reference to Paul Revere and the North Church
And another quote on the front of the Boston Public Library.
Anyone still around Boston for the holidays wants to explore this yet again?

was just recently discussing this with my buddy (Abqram) and he told of something else he kind of remembers but did not post for fear of irrelavency.  I quickly told him nothing is irrelevant in this darn hunt so here it is.
We may need someone who is either from Boston or has a very good memory about a trip there to corroborate this.  While interning there many years ago, he specifically remembers a nightclub called the Coliseum which was not far from both Fenway Park and Copley Square.  He remembers that inside of the club, there was a giant upturned hand where the dj’s booth was (dont think the hand is in any of the P’s…he just remembered it).  Both he and I have googled and googled but can not seem to locate any mention of this Coliseum in Beantown.  Was it there anyone?….&….if so, could this be our “Coliseum”?  ???
I did locate this:
http://ypng.infospace.com/_1_91YUYF0437 … SRC%3DInfo
space%26N%3Dcoliseum%26T%3DBoston%26S%3DMA%26R%3DN%26AL%3D%26LID%3D0093713005%26
display%3D1&kcfg=ypus&ypinsp=0&searchtype=all&fromform=qsearch&qhqn=coliseum&qn=
coliseum&qc=Boston&qs=MA&qk=15&recid=0093713005⊤=internal
…which is near the area but I am quite sure this is not the one he refers to.

I had another thought:
In truth be free…
The motto for Harvard University is “Veritas”.  Means “Truth.”  In this light, you might interpret that line above as “IN HARVARD be free.”
In other words, the casque will be “freed” at Harvard.
The closest thing we’ve come to a coliseum is also at Harvard.
Also, that’s where “all the letters” are there for us to see. And by letters you can mean Greek letters (frats/sororities–I know the don’t exist on the Harvard campus but they might at MIT, etc.), the Muses (the “Literati”), the “men of letters” (anyone educated/intellectual) or actual letters–as in things you write to other people–as well as any other interpretation you can think of for “letters.” The university would be the place for not only one or two of these interpretations, but ALL of them.
I don’t know what a green tower of lights might mean, or a middle section–though there are plenty of those in various places.
There is another thought: the Harvard Lampoon operates from a replica of a Flemish Castle–a little turreted building. It does not look like anything resembling our box castle, but if that box castle is a METAPHOR for the word “castle”, then it fits. Box has castle, Lampoon has castle. We already know of the connection between BP and the Lampoon–this seems like the kind of trickery he’d find amusing.

I think this verse goes with Image 11 because of the Greek relation. Thucydides and Xenophon are Greek scholars and Pandora is a character from Greek mythology this could be the Image to Verse connecter. I am not sure though that Boston is the right city. In the next few days I hope to get this image and verse out to a distant relative of mine who has lived in Boston since before most of us were even born. Hopefully he can help us determine if Boston is this location.
In the meantime I will continue to investigate Toronto. I think the building on the box is Casa Loma and I do not know what I found but i remember running Thucydides and Xenophon through google and getting references to Toronto.

hey all, glad to see theres some new developments on this V and P.  I actually live in Indiana, but was out in boston earlier in the year to visit a couple friends and to work on the hunt.  I can safely say that its not on the Freedom Trail.  I walked the whole thing while i was there, which is actually the second time ive traversed it, and there was no place to hide a casque.  The only grassy areas on the whole trail are cemetarys and i beleive in the rules it says they wont be in cemetaries.  And since ive visited the sites of both “found” casques, and can tell you that they are tucked away in places that arent highly “traveled”, meaning, Byron had to hide these things in a way so that a passerby either couldnt see him, or wouldnt think anything of it.  Example, the chicago casque was buried in a part of Grant Park kind of shielded Byron from people walking by.  Im assuming he hid them at night for added secrecy, but in a park that size, there still would be people out walking, so the shielded spot helps.  As for the cleveland casque, it was buried on the opposite side of the wall where most people would be standing and looking. Also, if you were standing on the “main” side of the wall looking at it, and you were to turn 180 degrees, you would be stairing straight at residential neighborhood nor more than 50 feet from you.  so Byron had to hide it on the other side where there wasnt a lot of “traffic.”  Ok, with all that said, i really dont think its on the Freedom Trail, since its a high traffic area with VERY few places to hide.  So it will definately be in one of the parks nearby.  I checked the entire Commons, but i could not find any of the visual confriming clues that have been seen in the other 2 casques, so i think we can count out the Commons.  The Back Bay Fens park is definately on my list as well as the Public Gardens.  The good thing about the gardens is that people can “rent” plots of land to plant vegetables, flowers, shrubs, etc.  And that would make a GREAT place to bury a treasure.  You “rent” the land year after year, or maybe Byron just bought a plot out (they arent big, maybe like 6 feet by 6 feet).  so he gets a plot, buries the treasure, and puts a visual confirmer there (maybe the pedastal that the statue is on)  Anyway, i’ll be going back out there in late May (after the ground thaws) for a wedding, so i’ll poke around some more and hopefully by then we’ll have a place narrowed down.  With “A Treasure’s Trove” out, i’ll be shifting more time toward that, but i’ll check back in from time to time with any new info ive got. so take it easy all, and happy hunting
!

I’m a couple of hours away, but I’ll go if we can narrow it down a bit more.  I’ll definitely stop by the Back Bay Fens Park to look around (and take photos).
I’ve been considering the Old Granary for a while.  It was once known at the Middle Burying Ground (“In the middle section”).
Any other specifics?

Fox, I think you may have mentioned this before.  I think there is a link from one key to another.  If not a direct link from one to the next then perhaps a common thread.  There are a couple of instances, but the one that comes immediately to mind is this photo from the Cleveland (?) find.

hey bclews, that is a pretty nice match you found there.  coincidence…?…..hmm…maybe not.  Now, if only we can find a match for the war memorial in the park (the asian fan looking thing).  There is the Clemente ballpark there…homeplate.  Could we finally be zeroing on the next casque or are we trying too hard to make things fit?  Hopefully the former….

OK,
I decided to take a close look at picture 3, thanks to bclews, and perhaps I’m reaching, but here goes:  If you look to the right side of the picture, it appears to be a partioal map of freedom trail (starts with a check mark right underneath the left side of the window).  Following the trail, there is a cross.  I used that as a ‘marker’ and discovered that it matches up with Paul Revere’s house.  I looked further and found out that on the freedom trail is the Granary Burying Ground.  Guess who’s buryied there?  Yup, Paul Revere.  Ok, the Granary Burying ground has an imposing entrance.  Check it out:  http://www.bizkard.com/freedom/granery/index.shtml
If you flip picture 2 upside down, doesn’t it look ALOT like the entrance?  Then I took a look a Paul Revere’s headstone:  http://www.thenewsletter.dyndns.org/oldgranary.htm  Boy, it looks like the thing the knight is on.
The problem is, can someone bury something in an old cemetary like the granary?  Don’t really think so.
Also, while I was doing some research, I saw that the old Boston Public Latin School is on the freedom trail.  It was torn down, but a plaque still remains:  http://www.insidegretchenshead.com/images/pictures/boston_april02/photos/photo_23.html
There are “all the letters are here to see”  But don’t see where they could bury the treasure nearby.  Further research is warrented.  Any help from the Bostonians out there?
ABQRAM

Sorry, its
http://www.bizkard.com/freedom/granary/index.shtml

sorry again, it’s
http://thenewsletter.dyndns.org/oldgranary.htm

Here’s another view of the tombstone:
http://masstraveljournal.com/scrapbook/ … os1_4.html
the plaque sure looks similar to the window, doesn’t it? and yes, when you flip Image 3 upside down around the window looks just like that entrance way.
With Paul Revere’s ride being at midnight on April 18, this tie in is too firm.
Where are our Bean Towners when we need them? loph, aren’t you close by? someone needs to take a look at all this stuff. I think this is very close.
wilhouse

The greek authors are key–It tells us where to start.  I think the treasure is definately buried somewhere along the freedom trail.  Xenophon wrote Anbasis, which was a continuation of the history of Thucydides.  X marks the spot?  THe place is norty of the starting point.  Who’s got freedom trail fever?
Abqram

I am brand new to this so forgive me, but when I read that verse all I can think of (as a Boston Resident) is the old Rte 93 Overpass/Underpass structures which had tall columns were green and had lights on them, that ran through the portion of the city, right past the Boston garden (the ‘coliseum’) and then straight down Atlantic Ave running parallel to the waterfront where a good portion of piers are. That 93 over pass would definitely have been there in 82 as it wasn’t torn down till the mid 2000s. If I am viewing this right, the verse goes to the woman with the flowing hair. While there are tons of other interpretations of course, a lot of the other landmarks that seem to be represented, in that image many of those people have noticed seemed to be not in the forefront of the picture. Well the only thing I can say is when you would come down 93 before you got to the Garden – you could see the Citgo sign in the distance and a bunch of other Boston landmarks on either side. Bunker Hill Mememorial also comes to mind there as something you could see. For some reason the North End of Boston seems like a great place for this, or just beside it at least … waterfront park … I don’t know, liike I said I’m totally new to this but it’s fascinating and I’d love to join the conversation and hunt. Looking forward to hearing more theories! I’m local too if anyone is looking for a ‘digger’ haha

DelRayBoston

I am brand new to this so forgive me, but when I read that verse all I can think of (as a Boston Resident) is the old Rte 93 Overpass/Underpass structures which had tall columns were green and had lights on them, that ran through the portion of the city, right past the Boston garden (the ‘coliseum’) and then straight down Atlantic Ave running parallel to the waterfront where a good portion of piers are. That 93 over pass would definitely have been there in 82 as it wasn’t torn down till the mid 2000s. If I am viewing this right, the verse goes to the woman with the flowing hair. While there are tons of other interpretations of course, a lot of the other landmarks that seem to be represented, in that image many of those people have noticed seemed to be not in the forefront of the picture. Well the only thing I can say is when you would come down 93 before you got to the Garden – you could see the Citgo sign in the distance and a bunch of other Boston landmarks on either side. Bunker Hill Mememorial also comes to mind there as something you could see. For some reason the North End of Boston seems like a great place for this, or just beside it at least … waterfront park … I don’t know, liike I said I’m totally new to this but it’s fascinating and I’d love to join the conversation and hunt. Looking forward to hearing more theories! I’m local too if anyone is looking for a ‘digger’ haha

I also thought of the elevated 93 as the green tower of lights. running through the middle of the city. Also ran right up against a castle style building at 177 milk…the grain exchange building. When i first started looking into this, i was convinced it was in the north end as well, around long wharf, cc park area. I dont believe so any more though, but all food for thought

Intereasting. Why have you moved off that area? The more I am reading the verse, the T and the X could be the T Station and the X could be the crossing between Causeway and where the Charlestown bridge is – that is an X that one way goes down Atlantic again with the waterfront and piers that are there at that part of the waterfront … I don’t know it just jumped right out to me reading it. ‘
Also in the image I have seen the discussion several times about the #42 number. Wasn’t that Ted William’s number? I don’t know, something else that popped for me. Again – sorry I am new at this.

DelRayBoston

Intereasting. Why have you moved off that area? The more I am reading the verse, the T and the X could be the T Station and the X could be the crossing between Causeway and where the Charlestown bridge is – that is an X that one way goes down Atlantic again with the waterfront and piers that are there at that part of the waterfront … I don’t know it just jumped right out to me reading it. ‘
Also in the image I have seen the discussion several times about the #42 number. Wasn’t that Ted William’s number? I don’t know, something else that popped for me. Again – sorry I am new at this.

Whatttttt….Ted Was 9!!!!!

Feels like Home could be Paul Revere’s Home in Boston.
If you look at the buildings surrounding his house you can see the scrolls which match the Mystic’s dress, and other square designs.
Why not keep it simple.
Yes Paul Revere
Mystic is Mystic River
The hair looks like Boston Harbor and her face like Columbus
The box and castle looks like the old Funeral Parlor which has been torn down
The moon is in the “third quarter”
Lit by Lamplight The “Old North Church” there is also scrolling on the organ inside the church that matches the mystics clothing and the back fence also matches it.
18th day and 12th Hour = Midnight ride 4/18/1775
All the letters are here to see – Fenway Garden, maybe a referral to his own written letters, or the freedom trail… a is a site, b is a site,c is a site, d is a site and so on….
Hancock feather could refer to Hancocks letters, that were in the trunk, he was getting up in Lexington
The large key could be the fountain and the psada where his statue is.
T = Tram system
5 steps could be 5 stops at the tram which brings us to North Boston – near Paul Reveres House
In truth, be free Bible verse John 8:32 Lit by Lamplight is at the “CHURCH”
Well those are my thoughts so far.

I know I was kidding about Teddy Ballgame … but I did post the below in the picture thread but what do you think about this:
what if you read the verse as prose and not a verse:
If Thucydides is North of Xenophon, take five steps in the area of his direction. A green tower of lights in the middle section, who pass the coliseum, with metal walls. Face the water, your back to the stairs, feel at home. All the letters are there to see. Eighteenth Day, Twelfth Hour, Lit by Lamplight. In truth, be free.
if you read this like prose I feel like the Green Tower of lights in the middle section, with metal walls – refers to the T (Boston’s transit system) – specifically the Green Line. Which starts north of Boston (slightly) at Alewife station. So the T(hucydides) is North of X(enophon) the X meaning your real starting point. Well if you take 5 stops (steps toward the X) on the Green Line (a vehicle with metal walls) from Alewife the X could be Boylston Street Station which is at the corner of the north side of Boston Common. It is also at a 4 corner intersection of roads (an X). Incidentally two things the T passes along the trip to Boylston Street (even though it is underground at this point) are Park Street Church, which has a spire and buidings around it relating to the painting – and the State House which has a dome top. The reason I focus on the Green Line to begin with is because of the Raised portion of it which opened in 19
42
and happens to pass a coliseum in the Boston Garden. The other reason why I focus on the Green Line is because you pass thru Park Street (one stop before Boylston) where all letters are represented so to speak – the A, B, C, D & E trains all run through there and there are signs for them
So what if the eighteenth day, twelfth hour, lit by lamplight, in truth be free can all be found in the public gardens.
You could make a case too that all of the other potential Boston landmarks that have been spotted including the Citgo Sign, why they are in spots of the painting that are slightly behind the woman is maybe that refers again to all of the points of Boston that the Green Line can take people to if they continued on it – E train goes out towards back bay, B and C and D all go to Kenmore, D going to Fenway, C and B going to different points past the Fenway including boston college (the Eagles).
Have you ever thought about the public gardens? Either side has water in it, monuments, stairs…

Maybe this will stir up some new ideas – take it or leave it.
“A green tower of lights
In the middle section”
Seems there are two main schools of thought on these lines. The “green tower of lights” refers to either Fenway Park or the Hancock Tower.
I was never a huge fan of the Fenway theory, but the Hancock theory seems far more outlandish. For a hunter to know that the Hancock is said “green tower of lights,” he/she would have to be out searching at night. I’m pretty confident Preiss wasn’t aiming for this. Any other theories floating around out there?

Hmmm.  One (perhaps overly self-justifying) interpretation would be that the Thucydides/Xenophon reference is doing double-duty.  It’s first job might be in reference to “A Letter to Horace Mann”, as mentioned in late ’03 and early ’04.  This relates Thucydides to Boston and Xenophon to New York.  As Boston IS North of NY, then go north.  The second job would be to get you to the BPL as a starting point.
Or maybe I’m wrong.  Right now I’m thinking of 4 base options.
1.  We seem to have found several literary references in the various verses, and the Thucy/Xeno as Boston/NY connection seems really good, especially as paired with the other Boston references in the text.  If this is right, then we’re on a good track and the panel placement dilemma is immaterial.
2.  If the Thucy/Xeno as Boston/NY connection is true, but does not refer to the BPL, then we still need to go north, but from where.  We’ll need a new starting point.
3.  If the Thucy/Xeno connection is unrelated to the Boston/NY text but does serve to get you to BPL, then maybe the (false) boolean if/then phrase really means to head South from the BPL.  5 blocks?  5 something…
4.  If the Thucy/Xeno connection is unrelated to Boston/NY and also unrelated to the panels on the BPL, then we need to find another starting point altogether.
I’m personally still liking #1, but I’m also biased in favor of the BPL/Dartmouth St./Esplanade theory.  Better ideas?
By the way, thanks to AmeliaElf and amymisha for doing what you’re doing.  It’s great to have somebody there.
Pine

Hi everyone.  I looked around Copley today and took lots of pictures, but I haven’t been able to get them off the camera yet.  I’ll post them as soon as I can.  For now, here are my observations:
1) Among the many, many names carved on the Boston Public Library are our friends Xenophon and Thucydides.  Thucydides’ name is decidedly NOT North of Xenophon’s, though.  They are vaguely near eachother, but are in different panels (panels with over 20 names apiece wrap around the building).  This will make more sense when I upload the pictures.
2) The motto of the BPL, which is carved over the entrance, is “Free To All.”  Interesting.
3) There are two castley-looking churches near the BPL.  One is across Copley Square, and the other is just across Boylston St.  Neither is particularly good match for the castle box, but I suppose they’re vaguely similar.
4) The library has an interior courtyard with some exposed earth covered by a groundcover.  It’s conceivable that someone could bury something there, but there’s no real reason to think that’s the place.
5) I don’t think the treasure is buried in Copley Square.  There
is
a large expanse of grass in the middle of the square, but the whole place is just too public.  It seems very unlikely that anyone would be allowed to dig there.
So, I don’t know.  The Thucydides and Xenophon sighting is promising, but otherwise I don’t feel much closer to a solution.
I’ll upload those pictures as soon as I’m able.  I took a LOT!

Excellent!  Good work!  It looks like it all starts at BPL.

remember that some clues merely are confirmers of an area, not of the treasure site.  The lake in chicago was not next to the treasure, the fountain in cleveland not right next to the burial site.
Confirmers are GOOD things!!
wilhouse

Okay, I got the pictures uploaded.  I made an account on webshots.com to store them.  You can view them all here:
http://community.webshots.com/user/ameliaelf
Thucydides is in the picture labeled Panel 1, and Xenophon is in the picture labeled Panel 2.  I also got a couple shots of the two panels together.
One thing you’ll notice is that the names in the panels on the front of the BPL are arranged in a very regular manner.  They could go into cells of a spreadsheet, even.  If you gave someone a starting name and a direction, you could move around on the panels and get to another name.  I don’t think this is exactly what the verse does, but it’s an idea.
I don’t know what it means that Thucydides is NOT North of Xenophon.  Very puzzling.

In the spirit of Gman’s pin suggestion, I thought I would share a few verse related items that I found interesting.
Here is an older map of the freedom trail. Today, many of the sites are no longer official stops and some of the “freedom path” sites are now part of the freedom trail. Not sure when these changes were made official, not sure if it really matters.
#4 & #5 are in the same general location and there is a plaque in the sidewalk that has the complete alphabet displayed in honor of the first public school.
#11,12,13 are located in the North End of the city. (The Italian District)
All of these stops are strongly tied to Paul Revere and his Midnight Ride. (#4 & #5 and the Boston Garden seem to be the exception, #4 & #5 are also the furthest away geographically.)
One unmapped item of interest is the infamous Columbus Statue that is located just below #11 near the waterfront/Harbor.
For the history buffs that are attacking this verse, I just can’t imagine how this isn’t the top area of interest. Each potential location/verse match is labeled on the map. For the image match truthers (like me) this area will suck the life out of you. It is barren when it comes to image matches.
***DISCLAIMER*** This in no way should be taken as a “solve”. I am simply sharing interesting potential connections to the verse and the City of Boston.
direct link
https://i.imgur.com/uvBFA2c.jpg
?

BINGO

In the spirit of Gman’s pin suggestion, I thought I would share a few verse related items that I found interesting.
Here is an older map of the freedom trail. Today, many of the sites are no longer official stops and some of the “freedom path” sites are now part of the freedom trail. Not sure when these changes were made official, not sure if it really matters.
#4 & #5 are in the same general location and there is a plaque in the sidewalk that has the complete alphabet displayed in honor of the first public school.
#11,12,13 are located in the North End of the city. (The Italian District)
All of these stops are strongly tied to Paul Revere and his Midnight Ride. (#4 & #5 and the Boston Garden seem to be the exception, #4 & #5 are also the furthest away geographically.)
One unmapped item of interest is the infamous Columbus Statue that is located just below #11 near the waterfront/Harbor.
For the history buffs that are attacking this verse, I just can’t imagine how this isn’t the top area of interest. Each potential location/verse match is labeled on the map. For the image match truthers (like me) this area will suck the life out of you. It is barren when it comes to image matches.
***DISCLAIMER*** This in no way should be taken as a “solve”. I am simply sharing interesting potential connections to the verse and the City of Boston.

Thanks for sharing this. Pretty sweet find and great line of thinking.
Do we have a time frame on the postcard, and more important when the “Freedom Path” existed a separate thing from the Trail?

gManTexas

Thanks for sharing this. Pretty sweet find and great line of thinking.
Do we have a time frame on the postcard, and more important when the “Freedom Path” existed a separate thing from the Trail?

It is not separate from the Freedom Trail, it is virtually the same exact path.

strike13

It is not separate from the Freedom Trail, it is virtually the same exact path.

Pretty much all it is is just one trail now…as you see the “path” and the “trail”…it is the same thing, just all called the Freedom Trail.
I am sorry I think i misunderstood your initial question, you just wanted to know when they were separate.
Although the postcard says they are separate, I am not sure whether tourist would be able to discern the paths form the trail back then, prob would just be all the same thing, as it is today.

gManTexas

Thanks for sharing this. Pretty sweet find and great line of thinking.
Do we have a time frame on the postcard, and more important when the “Freedom Path” existed a separate thing from the Trail?

I have a pile of various maps like this one. None have dates that I can tell and this one seemed to be older than the others. A current map will show a 2.5 mile trail that starts at the State House and goes all the way to Bunker Hill Monument and the Charlestown Navy Yard. A few stops like the Boston Stone and Provincial Steps have been replaced with other sites. The changes seem difficult to date, but all the sites have always been important to the history of the City.

BINGO

I have a pile of various maps like this one. None have dates that I can tell and this one seemed to be older than the others. A current map will show a 2.5 mile trail that starts at the State House and goes all the way to Bunker Hill Monument and the Charlestown Navy Yard. A few stops like the Boston Stone and Provincial Steps have been replaced with other sites. The changes seem difficult to date, but all the sites have always been important to the history of the City.

Except Columbus, cause he is not important to the history of our city. Which is why he is not a stop on the trail, or the path. And also why the woman in the image looks nada like him. I am also a Columbus statue truther

strike13

Pretty much all it is is just one trail now…as you see the “path” and the “trail”…it is the same thing, just all called the Freedom Trail.
I am sorry I think i misunderstood your initial question, you just wanted to know when they were separate.
Although the postcard says they are separate, I am not sure whether tourist would be able to discern the paths form the trail back then, prob would just be all the same thing, as it is today.

I have to believe that the official Freedom Trail was what was shown on the post card in red, and there were some outlying sights labeled Freedom Path. I wonder if that post card was done soon after the Trail was established in 1951.

The original idea for the Freedom Trail came from Bill Schofield, Boston Herald-Traveler writer, and Bob Winn, a member of the Old North Church, both of whom noticed the need for a clearer and more concise wayfinding tool for tourists visiting Boston’s historic sites. Schofield outlined this plan in his “Have You Heard” column on March 8, 1951. “All I’m suggesting is that we mark out a ‘Puritan Path’ or ‘Liberty Loop’ or ‘Freedom’s Way’ or whatever you want to call it, so [visitors and locals will] know where to start and what course to follow… [Y]ou could do the trick on a budget of just a few dollars and a bucket of paint. Not only would it add to the personality of the city, but also it would please the tourists.”1
The idea reached City of Boston Mayor John B, Hynes’ office. On Monday, June 11, 1951 at 12:00 noon, Mayor Hynes officially dedicated the Freedom Trail. The City of Boston installed “a series of painted signs along 30 prominent street corners pointing toward Old Boston’s most famous historical shrines.” The Freedom Trail took off immediately, and in 1953, it was recorded that 40,000 visitors utilized this new wayfinding tool.
In its original form, the Freedom Trail was measured at a mile and a fifth long, beginning at Boston Common and ending in the North End. There was no red line on the ground, but a system of signs marking the path. In 1958, the red line was added and, in 1972, the Trail officially extended into Charlestown including all 16 of the present-day official Freedom Trail historic sites.
https://www.thefreedomtrail.org/about/f … ablishment

gManTexas

The original idea for the Freedom Trail came from Bill Schofield, Boston Herald-Traveler writer, and Bob Winn, a member of the Old North Church, both of whom noticed the need for a clearer and more concise wayfinding tool for tourists visiting Boston’s historic sites. Schofield outlined this plan in his “Have You Heard” column on March 8, 1951. “All I’m suggesting is that we mark out a ‘Puritan Path’ or ‘Liberty Loop’ or ‘Freedom’s Way’ or whatever you want to call it, so [visitors and locals will] know where to start and what course to follow… [Y]ou could do the trick on a budget of just a few dollars and a bucket of paint. Not only would it add to the personality of the city, but also it would please the tourists.”1
The idea reached City of Boston Mayor John B, Hynes’ office. On Monday, June 11, 1951 at 12:00 noon, Mayor Hynes officially dedicated the Freedom Trail. The City of Boston installed “a series of painted signs along 30 prominent street corners pointing toward Old Boston’s most famous historical shrines.” The Freedom Trail took off immediately, and in 1953, it was recorded that 40,000 visitors utilized this new wayfinding tool.
In its original form, the Freedom Trail was measured at a mile and a fifth long, beginning at Boston Common and ending in the North End. There was no red line on the ground, but a system of signs marking the path. In 1958, the red line was added and, in 1972, the Trail officially extended into Charlestown including all 16 of the present-day official Freedom Trail historic sites.
https://www.thefreedomtrail.org/about/f … ablishment

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax7DQ_wwH7U

strike13

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ax7DQ_wwH7U
Wow lots of globe lights as he rounds that corner from School to washington st

Am I the only person looking at the light poles, buildings and fences in the background while completely ignoring the runner in the video?
It’s a sickness…

BINGO

Am I the only person looking at the light poles, buildings and fences in the background while completely ignoring the runner in the video?
It’s a sickness…

Not at all….that’s all i was looking at hahahaa

Does anyone know what things looked like back then near Water Street?

gManTexas

Does anyone know what things looked like back then near Water Street?

real Water street boston, or the water st chucktown near the new paul revere park?

strike13

real Water street boston, or the water st chucktown near the new paul revere park?

Water Street off Washington.

gManTexas

Water Street off Washington.

it has looked largely the same. More than likely only different around the post office square area, as the parking garage was demolished in 95 and the park added in its place.

Choice

But you don’t count the step that you are at.

no, it obviously count, let me explain, let say the first 3 lines of the original context were one sentence, it goes:
“If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps”
then it will be something like:
” If T is 5 steps above X”
And something I’ve always wanted to say, while all the guessing and focus are over Thucydides and Xenophon, the most important word I think is the first word “IF”, it’s not “Where”, it’s a hypothesis, like something you wrote on a sketch paper kind of clue, it might not be a physical location. Its something like BINGO posted, a map of some sort.

Spiritr

no, it obviously count, let me explain, let say the first 3 lines of the original context were one sentence, it goes:
“If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Take five steps”
then it will be something like:
” If T is 5 steps above X”
And something I’ve always wanted to say, while all the guessing and focus are over Thucydides and Xenophon, the most important word I think is the first word “IF”, it’s not “Where”, it’s a hypothesis, like something you wrote on a sketch paper kind of clue, it might not be a physical location. Its something like BINGO posted, a map of some sort.

If we are to take this part of the Verse as a logical statement, like lines of code in a program, then the result would be to do nothing if Thucydides is NOT
North of Xenophon. Obviously that is not helping us.
I think your post above is meaningless. BP was a linguist and not a mathematician.

He is VERY good at math, and so is Alex Jay

Uh, we’re supposed to dig where the casque is, remember?
Good grief, do I gots ta do all the #Q$%# thinking ’round here?

lol

just to correct Ram on this, the pedastal that Fox is referring to, is NOT Pual Reveres.  Pual reveres head stone is in a pic on the same page next to the dragonfly.  Those to burying grounds are two comepletely different places.  sorry to rain on the parade, but someone had to  🙂

Unknown

Unknown:
Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see

“Feel at home” is one of the more mysterious lines. Previous suggestions have included Mothers Rest, a house, and Wendell Holmes.
Pulling words off signs is a favourite trick, and we haven’t seen any of those in Boston yet, so I also wondered about the Fenway Park signs saying “Home of the Boston Red Sox”.
It’s close to the Victory Gardens for the letters.
It’s worth remembering that we’re not necessarily looking for a trail through the lines, or a specific place where everything like the stairs, the water, the letters, feeling at home etc all come together at once; these can just be scattered around the neighbourhood. We do need some specific line to pinpoint a spot though. Facing the water with your back to the stairs sounds like it could be it, though it’s still pretty vague. I’m also wondering if the dig spot might include those “five steps”.

This may have been said already, but could the “
letters
” be entire documents rather than
letters
of the alphabet?

This may have been said already, but could the “letters” be entire documents rather than letters of the alphabet?

I’d agree that Back St seems the likeliest route from the BPL. I’m not really drawn to that electricity box though. The pump house seems to have more that fits in with the verse and image…steps, letters, etc. Its sign has a white circle on a green square.
It would be good if we could get some photos of the thing…there are some features that are hard to make out which might be represented somewhere in the image.

What are the candidates for a specific dig spot location method?  Alignment of 2, 3, or 4?
A—B—X
A—X——B
|
|
C
or
A
|
B—-X—-C
|
D?

huh?

As you process the pieces of the puzzle, I suspect some of them will yield to a method of alignment.  Cleveland was laid out as a count of stones from right to left, Chicago was a spot on a grid between to landmarks.  What parts of this pic/verse are considering and what kind of approach would best fit the Boston site?

But the images don’t lead you… the verse does.

Verse-wise, I’d go with facing the water behind those steps myself…

Thankyou for your latest contribution fo21.  I think you have the right approach.

If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
Similar to “Where M and B are set in stone,” both in placement and structure/interpretation. This just tells us a general place, or place to start… the BPL.
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
This means go North on Dartmouth St. from looking at BPL, to Back St. Then take five streets on Back St., to where it meets with Charlesgate.
“in the area of his direction” means “toward North.”
But it also means “in the area of
his
[possessive]
direction
[gate – to gate is to direct, to gait is to move].”
In the area of whose direction then? … well, his direction… his gate … Charles’ direction … Charles’ gate… toward North and toward Charlesgate!
So how do we know start taking those steps on Back St. going toward Charlesgate (and not toward Hatch where there are also image clues)?
Because the latter verse must be taken out of chronology..the “your back to the stairs”…  steps… back…  means the steps are on Back. When you get to that latter line in the verse, you come back to the “steps” because it tells you definitively where you are — “your [you’re] back to the stairs.” So, you gotta go back to the line where the steps are to be back at the stairs. When you get back to where the steps are,
the five steps
are Back
cause you are back to the stairs!
This is a jarbly mess, I know. It’s half-circular logic, but it’s simple substitution and should be read as:
Take Back St.
Toward Charlesgate
Take five steps
In the area of his direction
Your back to the stairs
A green tower of lights
In the middle section
Take Charlesgate to the green lamppost, which is in the middle section below the overpass.
Near those
Who pass the coliseum
Near the overpass (those who pass
anything
overpass by definition), the Bowker overpass more specifically. I really think this might have a tad more/different meaning.
With metal walls
The electrical box.
Face the water
Look straight in front of you toward the water (i.e., look at the image and see a corresponding image of what is right in front of you to confirm).
Your back to the stairs
**This must be read and understood with the “take five steps” section above.
Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see
Mothers Rest and Victory Gardens nearby… Reads and describes nearby locations very similar to “Seek the sounds of rumble, brush and music,” and is placed in a similar position.
Eighteenth day
Twelfth hour
No idea.
Lit by lamplight
In truth, be free.
The electrical box is lit by lamplight, which may be the lamp in the bottom right corner. This also may have to do with “T” for truth marking the spot. In the image, the T would mark the spot  on the corner of the electrical box (which is seated on a 3-foot high block of concrete by the way, so digging there would be safe).
This is also like the chicago solve in that you do not need the image. There are, however, many image confirmers en route and also images symbolizing the city. This is a very straight and direct path if you look at the map.

WhiteRabbit

Verse-wise, I’d go with facing the water behind those steps myself…

I just really think that the steps aren’t literal, and that we will not use/see real steps in finding the location of the casque. My thought is that the only reason “steps” and “stairs” are mentioned is to get us to link the lines and elicit Back St. to Charlesgate.
This interpretation means you are at the location when you “face the water” along “with metal walls” that also face the water. You do not “face the water” with “your back to the stairs.” Confirmation of this for me is that we have the exact image in front of us from the picture. Think about the Cleveland and Chicago solves… the site was directly connected to a substantial section of the image depicted in real life.
Again, though, the site can be found using the verse only, and does not RELY on the image. For instance, Hatch/Esplanade “seems to have more that fits in with the verse and image…” as well as Copley and Trinity, but the verse leads us elsewhere. In general, the images seem to contain a lot of confirmers that are red herrings if we follow them. Instead, follow the verse almost exactly (when ordered properly), and some image confirmers will be seen on the way, while the others are simply to distract us from the path if we try to follow them, yet they still confirm the city/general surroundings. There is only one portion of the image which is exact at the site, and it is generally (given 2 solved sites) a comprehensive chunk of the image, not the merging of a bubble from over here and a green square over there.
I think of it this way: A map is scattered with pins marking each of the image confimers. No matter which image confimer you are at, you are drawn to another as a possible solution. But… If you pick up the verse and decipher it properly, a path leads through some of those points to the casque location. While the path does not visit all of the points, some of them will be seen on the way. There is no image path, and only confusion if you let the images guide you.

Maybe “take five” refers to taking a break or a rest.  The crack in the top of the circle actually reminds me of a quarter rest squiggle shape in music notation.

erexere

four21, you’re “his direction” breakdown is really growing on me.  I’m finally convinced of the idea of “-gate” leading to Charles’ gate or “Charlesgate”.
Let’s take another look at the first two lines,
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
The word north doesn’t make automatic sense.  We simply have to look BACK and say Thucydides comes before Xenophon.  If we recognize their historical placement on the timeline, then north becomes in a sense a point of reference or origin.  The IF-statement is then true with knowing Thucydides preceded Xenophon.  I think we have the gist of the word BACK for a pointer to Back St. from BPL if we play with the idea of history or precedence and origination.

In Boston, is Thucydides north of Xenophon on the building?

yes

Yes.  I think there’s somethi ng subtle about starting that lne with IF.  IF is the beginning of a condition followed by a rule.  I think this could be an indication of a rule for some supportive reason.  I thought the image look d vaguely like a baseball catcher holding a glowing box instead of a catchers mitt.  I wondered if there were any “five step” rules in baseball.  The rule of Obstruction looked like a possibility.  I then wondered how it would apply to the 2C setting.  Likely I’m looking too abstractly or too deep.  I’m not a baseball nerd..but its fun to consider.  Boston has some rich baseball history.

Are you sure Thucydides is north of Xenophon on the BPL? I seem to remember that was not true.

four21, you’re “his direction” breakdown is really growing on me.  I’m finally convinced of the idea of “-gate” leading to Charles’ gate or “Charlesgate”.
Let’s take another look at the first two lines,
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
The word north doesn’t make automatic sense.  We simply have to look BACK and say Thucydides comes before Xenophon.  If we recognize their historical placement on the timeline, then north becomes in a sense a point of reference or origin.  The IF-statement is then true with knowing Thucydides preceded Xenophon.  I think we have the gist of the word BACK for a pointer to Back St. from BPL if we play with the idea of history or precedence and origination.

niteowl9

How about Trinity Church for the last line of verse 3?  I see it was mentioned earlier
in this thread, but this could tie it into the verse.

“And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”
YES

And don’t forget this, on the BPL facade:

Here’s the “green tower of lights” from 2007 compared to the new fancy fresh green one in 2009,

Since Im talking about the Somerset double S as the money symbol $ and the section symbol, I wonder if the lines “all the letters / are here to see” have something of a gambling meaning. A common protocol of etiquette in a Poker situation would go “I see your $5 and raise you $10”. It could be argued that Paul Revere took a big gamble hoping he would cross the Charles river undetected. Maybe…

Just a thought, has anyone ever suggested the Central Artery as the green tower of lights?
“In the middle section”=Central
Could support some more of the theories suggesting the casque to be somewhere in the North End.

burnstyle

Yeah but if we are being honest… there really isn’t anything else to support the north end.
And Boston, to me at least, has far too many clues throughout the entire book that point you to back bay.
I mean… the back bay is mentioned in the front of the book, the middle of the book, the back of the book…
Its everywhere.

Which references are you referring to?

Yeah but if we are being honest… there really isn’t anything else to support the north end.
And Boston, to me at least, has far too many clues throughout the entire book that point you to back bay.
I mean… the back bay is mentioned in the front of the book, the middle of the book, the back of the book…
Its everywhere.

I tend to agree. It seems impossible to me that the coliseum with metal walls could mean anything else but Fenway Park. I took a walk through the Fens the other day and honestly a lot of the popular theories for alternate dig spots there really didn’t make much sense. The 2C’s spot is the only place with a really strong visual match but it’s certainly clear that it’s been dug all over. If it’s not there I think somewhere else in that Charlesgate area makes the most sense.

Xie, that’s a pretty good looking connection.  Good of you to acknowledge the gaps.
I say the best way to move forward is to have a look at the location in person and gauge how strongly it pulls you in or points you in a direction.  Chicago had a lot of decoration points.  The simple question of where nearby would be a good place to look for dig dirt was obvious to the area, Grant Park pulled you in.  In Cleveland, the final line was highlighting the columns, and once standing at the entrance to the Grecean Gardens it pulls you in as you hold your book up and pick out the centered sketch of wall.
IMHO, you could have Boston by the balls if you are using the final line to effect.  The Hancock building is visually interesting, go have a look and tell us where the nearest dirt pulls you.

Xieish

I’m currently working on a location that matches everything in this post, more or less.

Is it in Boston?

TzalosRex

Hello again, Everyone.  I had a thought about the “castle” on the box.  Everyone seems to be trying to find the “castle”, but what if this isn’t one building, but several buildings that, when viewed from the casque site, line up like the picture on the box?  Even if true, that’s not really helpful, I know.  About the verse, Googling “In truth, be free”, I got a hit for John 8:32 (New Testament)… “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”  A paraphrasing?  Could the site be near a church?  I wasn’t into the copley thing, but trinity does have a carving of Saint John (and Luke, et Al.) outside.  One more crazy thought, “18th day, twelfth hour”..Who was Rever going to meet?  Sam Adams and
John Hancock
.  Two John references?  Hancock Tower?  I’m going to just keep throwing my weird ideas at you all, for the record.
P.S. My copy of the book came today.  Five dollars US on Ebay!  Yay!  Last time I held this book in my hand I was 10.  Good Night, Good Day, All.

Hi everyone, I just wanted to chime in and say that this post from 2011 is probably the most spot on. I’m currently working on a location that matches everything in this post, more or less. The castle does line up from a fairly specific location (and ONLY that location), and the biblical quote has been physically located nearby, as well as a few other potential visual matches. All of the matches are close to the level of that seen in the other paintings, these are not “if you rotate it and squint it looks a lot like this path” type stuff.
There is an incredibly, incredibly strong link to Revere. All of the supporting evidence is within 5 minutes from the location, and most physically border it. I also have links to Italy, as well as theories about “feel at home” [trying to verify its age, believe it to be pre 1980] and “all the letters” – which I believe are another image that only work from a specific location.
Absolutely nothing seems to work for the first 4 lines, I will admit, but the site hasn’t been fully canvassed yet. One issue is that this verse does not appear to lead to as specific a location as Chicago & Cleveland did. Though Cleveland’s was far more specific than Chicago’s, they both led you to a physical spot. I have theories, but unfortunately that’s all they are right now.
If I am right about the location, we have a decent shot of digging it up within the next 12 months, as the area is about to undergo major renovation. The bad news is that the window for finding it may be very small, if the dig has to be clandestine, or trial-and-error.
Also, it could just not be here
Anything is possible.

This is one of the things where it might make sense to sort of defer to the experience of people who have actually been there, because the place you’ve drawn your arrow is a muddy riverbank. If the casque was buried there, it was buried in mud. I’m comfortable saying I’m certain that Preiss was smart enough not to bury casques in mud.

erexere

Chicago, “Where M and B are set in stone”, the casque was found in Grant Park and the word “grant”, defined in Law, may be a transfer of property by deed, or in other words a conveyance which is “set in stone”.

Or, as Preiss himself said, it referred to “Mozart” and “Beethoven” inscribed, literally, in large letters, in stone, on a building across from the park.  But clearly, Preiss was being cheeky, and obscuring the
true
meaning involving “grant” or a “conveyance.” Crafty guy.
Xie, did you post where you think it’s buried?

I agree with everything that JSP has said. Myself and my roommate pored over the entire Comm Ave mall all the way to Charlesgate and back out to Hines.
I’m sorry, but if you don’t live here, if you haven’t spent time there, it’s pretty insulting to continully claim something that multiple people have confirmed isn’t true. The “2C” really aren’t, one is an almost complete circle, and neither is an exact match to the globe/arch in the painting.
The Citgo sign can’t really be seen from where you want it to be seen. There are no “all the letters” and there are approximately hundreds of green lamps in the city.
I wanted this site to fit. I really did. I spent hours looking at photos from all years I could find, on the ground, on Google Maps, etc. There’s nothing that actually resembles the turrets in a meaningful way. The S on the side of The Somerset is not even close to the S on her apron. The lamps you see which look like the 3 globes don’t form the same pattern. There are no letters to see. “Feel at home” requires you to buy a condo? The Somerset is a very, very tenuous reference to Revere – it’s a part of the poem but not the most famous.
Every single thing about the site is a stretch. There are no actual matching elements. It relies on really wacky verse interpretations – if it was that on top of a ton of images, I’d agree with the site a bit more, but when all you have is a bad “C” carved in the ground that isn’t a C and Google Maps, there just isn’t anything that makes me want to dig.
I’d be a lot more willing to “let the verse flow” if your verse interpretation was any good, instead of a series of huge leaps –
every. single. step.
of your verse interpretation requires a
gigantic leap
that hasn’t been necessary in any other riddle. On top of that, you’re arguing that this should supersede the complete and utter lack of imagery matching the site. Based on the completely incorrect shape of 2 stone depressions in the ground.
There’s a reason a cask hasn’t been dug up yet in Boston, and it’s not because some of us are only “allegedly” interested.
edit: In terms of city confirmers for boston: There’s the potential “BOS” on her sleeve (eh), the potential “B” of the globes (eh), the potential skyline in her hair. Something about the bird? Everything else is too small to be a city confirmer, unless after all these years everyone is equally blind.

Xie, not trying to insult you.  I just showed you a pic from street view that shows the Citgo sign.  I discussed it and other factors in a legitimate way without the presumptions that may not support the puzzle.  What you hope to find as an exact match may not be there, but to say two letter S’s are not relevant to a spot that also has two S’s is outrageous.  There’s so much artistic license and guile in this hunt that you should take a pause and not call anything a giant leap until you really have a case.  I don’t live in Boston, I am relying on internet imagery, but I’m also using my brain.
I’m tickled by the commonality that can be discovered by just reading the first line.  IF, the word ‘if’, is in fact the name of a prison.  Thucydides was in fact an exile.  The threat of incarceration is a good way to start working this puzzle.  Think about the variety of ways a child might play the game of “go to jail”.  Finding a spot like that may be a big leap for all of us.  I feel like things get very interesting with the John Boyle O’Reilly and actually measuring the distance based on a true standard for block length.  There is a gap for me in connecting that to the 2Cs, but they are fairly close.  John Boyle was exiled, imprisoned, and escaped.  Taking a leap might be implied.  Then we have Longfellow.  That could lead anywhere, but the nearest connection might be the simplest explanation, which in his words might be the Somerset.  Longfellow describes it like a prison if I recall, a black hulk with bars.  Ill read it again later just to be sure.
Anyways, contend with what I’ve said however you like.  I’m totaly stoked by this hunt.

You can see the Citgo sign from elsewhere in the park, but it’s not where you want to dig at all. You can’t even see a hint of it. Sigh. Do as you want, but your brain makes connections that are tenuous at best and then locks them down as ironclad. Over, and over, and over again for years. I’ve read it. None of them have been right – now, that does not mean you will never be right – but at some point it may be better to acknowledge that it’s
more likely
the other 10 puzzles (or at least SOME of them!) will be solved like the others, as opposed to with leaps of logic and 4-6 layer deep literary references.
The letter S is one of the most common letters in the English alphabet. :\
Do you know what’s a great way to start working this puzzle? Matching images on the ground that look like things in the painting.
I’ll tease this out for you – here are all of the things that I consider a fantastical leap of logic in your theory:
1) The theme of incarceration is important
-All of the solved ones begin with a very simple verse that get you in the right area. One of them is actually quite a poor clue, referring to something 1.5 blocks away, but is just initials carved into the rock. The other describes the park in a clever way, but directly describes the park. You know it when you get there. Finding a theme by doing encyclopedia reference about the Greek name and applying it as a skewed way to view the rest of the verse doesn’t make a lot of sense. It’s a huge leap, it’s certainly not even close to any other verse interpretation (Roanoake, etc.)
2) Using a “standard block length” to justify the distance.
-This is incredibly unlikely. I’m not a huge fan of 5 steps = 5 blocks anyway, especially not 5 blocks West (it’s 6, and then 1-2 up) in the first place, but when you need to bust out an archaic definition of block to make it fit, completely ignoring the actual layout of the city (the most important part of these puzzles), you’re setting of my logic detector. It’s another leap. Maybe not the biggest.
3) The quote refers to Longfellow/Somerset
-This is unknown. It may refer to Revere, it may refer to Longfellow, it may refer to someone else (Dawes, or the 3rd rider, or some plaque that will be visible from the dig site). If it does refer to Longfellow, it’s absurd to call The Somerset the prevailing reference to him, it’s just the most convenient in a city that has hundreds of them. You can’t go 20 feet around here without running into something he was involved with. Bridges named after him, his home, he did lots of stuff for Harvard, roads, etc.
This just isn’t how they work. It’s too many leaps upon leaps. No person could be expected to solve these multi layered puzzles that are of Da Vinci code complexity. I want to dig up a cask, and I’m not going to do anything to stop you from digging if you can, but I also think that a very critical & skeptical approach to this hunt is going to yield the best results.

None of my current theories use any connection layering beyond 1 layer.  I think it’s a matter of picking the right layer.  Sure I float a lot of ideas around, but there’s a reason and purpose for each and when it doesn’t reconcile after some good ol’ chewing then into the spitoon in the corner it goes.
We have an extremely small canon in Cleveland and Chicago to form any certainties.   I’m careful not to deviate from what worked in Cleveland and Chicago.  You and others might be mistaken on how you think Cleveland and Chicago worked.  Only recently I’ve worked out some very clear reasoning to their first lines of verse and I doubt anyone’s embracing even a trial perspective.  Someone called “set in stone” a stretch when I said it can relate contract agreement and the word “grant”.  Having a plan to hide the casque in a specific place and considering some aspect of the solution will share a cornerstone link to the first line of the verse is a great way to engineer the process. We don’t know for sure yet that is what Preiss did, but we have no proof that he didn’t, and I have only two solutions that suggest he did.  I’ve based the rest of my solutions on that process in hopes that I might be right.  I wouldn’t say it’s ironclad, but it’s conventional.  There’s some good idiomatic and conventional leads in these verses.  They are cryptic.  Research can be useful.
Let’s review,
Cleveland, “beneath two countries”, like the Centaur in the image demonstrates, we can stand on a wall that borders two countries, the casque was found at the wall of the Greek Garden and so it follows to note the first line may implicate a wall.
Chicago, “Where M and B are set in stone”, the casque was found in Grant Park and the word “grant”, defined in Law, may be a transfer of property by deed, or in other words a conveyance which is “set in stone”.
It seems more and more likely that Preiss looked for a precise way to relate the first line of verse to each of his hiding spots.  Now I’m looking at Verse 3, and “If Thucydides is” is to follow suit, then there is some subtle intention in these three words beyond just telling us to chance upon some names written on a wall.  It’s actually leading us to conclude or ask “what is Thucydides?”  Exiled.  I can only conclude that the casque will be in a place where we could pretend is a place designed to keep someone in or out.  The best thing I can come up with is a fenced in, boxed in, or even encircled area.  There just has to be a prison motif.
The
Somerset
, British man-of-war;
A phantom ship, with each mast and spar
Across the moon
like a prison bar
,
Excerpt from
The Landlord’s Tale, Paul Revere’s Ride
, appeals to my breakdown as the first word of the first line of verse may be considered to be the name of the prison, Château d’
If
.
Street view reveals there is a fenced portion of ground at the 2C’s.  I don’t think it’s impossible to move dirt with a shovel there.  I think it was possible to perch oneself up to a height where the CITGO letters were all in view.  A small step ladder could easily prove or disprove this theory, but there’s also the matter of the tree branches that may have grown to the point where they obscure the sign.  Hello, it’s been 30 years!  We dont need xray vision, but we do need to reconsider everything possible so that we don’t miss small but important details.

There are a couple local hunters who share your cannon ball theory. And I agree, it looks similar to a cannon pointed upwards with a cannonball sitting on the top.
Most of what you wrote is a possibility, but you lost me with Goldilocks and Southie. Seems a bit of a stretch to me.
Going back to the cannon theory, they are found in spots throughout the city. They can be found in most of the larger parks and even in the North End. Maybe build off of that?

JamesV

Hope everyone’s having a great weekend! Thought I’d post a couple thoughts to go against the grain, just in case anyone’s open to a possible Image 8 / Verse 3 pairing. (Before you call me a complete j/a, the “search” feature did pull up a handful of times that this had been discussed before.)
-Regarding Thyucides & Xenophon: it looks like pretty much everyone agrees that we’re probably looking for engravings, as was done in Cleveland, but… is it possible these names were just chosen as a way to spell out the postal abbreviation “T.X.”?
-Houston was also home to the “Sam Houston Coliseum”, 801 Bagby Street, which was demolished in 1998.
-On those “Eighteenth day / Twelfth hour” lines, could these be a reference to the Juneteenth celebrations, which began in Texas, as opposed to Longfellow’s poem about Paul Revere? (Although the holiday is officially celebrated on June 19, apparently Union troops first arrived in Galveston on the 18th.) Anyone know if there’s any emancipation-related monuments in/around Houston?

Emancipation Park at 3018 Emancipation Avenue, in the Third Ward.
There are some small monuments, but they’re really beneath public notice. I can’t tell you where they are.
Interesting ideas you came up with, but those of us in Houston all like Verse 8. I threw that out there in case you’re onto something,

dang, I thought 5 paces or about 15 feet would be much closer to the lamp. I’m moving the home plate to the edge of the green. Purple X is the new target!

Choice

dang, I thought 5 paces or about 15 feet would be much closer to the lamp. I’m moving the home plate to the edge of the green. Purple X is the new target!

Yes!!!
That makes so much more sense. How did I miss that?
I’m 100% positive that moving another 15’ further away from the monument will provide ample confirmers and reveal the casque!!! So excited.
Disclaimer: For those who take my posts literally, this is another scenario involving sarcasm.

Come on, life would be boring without my input.

BINGO

You’ve got some slightly different approaches to very commonly discussed landmarks. At this point, I think the only way to prove or at least gain any solid data, for or against your theory, is to refine your dig site to a specific spot or spots. Then, probe and potentially dig.
If you are correct, you will be rewarded with a casque. If you are wrong, you will be another member of a not so exclusive club.
Coming up with a theory or even small parts of one that is universally accepted as fact seems to be more rare than actually finding a casque.

If you could get everybody on this forum to truly understand this, the entire place would be on a whole other level.
Take note.

BINGO

Tomorrow Choice. Tomorrow will be your day to shine.
Do you have a favorite corner of the Ether monument (“home plate”) that you would like probed first? Or should I plan on taking 5 steps from each of them and probe them all?
Tomorrow…

My choice would be the one’s that are not pointing to paved walkways! But my favorite one is pointing towards the swan-boat lake.
Cool. Don’t poke too hard and break my cask!
East/west corners end up on the paved pathways; so hopefully north/south ones don’t end up under paved area.

Choice

… But my favorite one is pointing towards the swan-boat lake.

You know, the twelfth hour position, by the lamplight post.

North, South and Westernmost Corners of the Ether monument have far too much paved walkway for 5 paces to get past.
The Easternmost corner (closest to the pond and Swan boats) has almost 6 paces before you are out of the paved area. I probed a 4’X4′ area just off the edge of the walkway. Depths were in the 3′ range.
I risked arrest by Park Rangers and DCR employees for probing without a permit, and I foolishly put my wrists in danger by attempting to penetrate frozen ground during a Boston winter. The good news is I made it through with no issues. The bad news is there is absolutely nothing to report. No subsurface objects to dig up or explore. No sightings of anything verse or image related in the immediate area. Just nothing.
Time for the serial theorist to come up with a new randomly chosen spot to target…

While I am enthusiastic about considering all possibilities, I just cannot understand how you get to 2Cs using the verse.
Feel at home
, when paired with
All the letters are here to see
cannot possibly mean “all the letters are here where you stand, at something that looks like 2 letter Cs.” The shape of the walls doesn’t even look distinctly like 2 Cs, nor do they resemble any part of the image closely. Using the verse to lead you to this place is just… askew.
Basing the whole theory around interpretation of the line meaning 2 Cs is rubbish. Sorry to be blunt.

You do realize that Marathon is as famous a Greek import into
our culture as Xenophon and Thucydides.

Yeah, it does tend to recall the Greek puzzle…

I’ve been considering the BPL –> Boylston –> turn right on Massachussets –> turn left at Newbury route.  The Berkley School of Music building looks very Colosseum-esque.

sorry, trying to catch up on this thread?
why the focus on the Boston marathon?
The verse says near those who pass the coliseum, not follow those who pass the coliseum
which seems to say at one point in the verse you will get near those who pass the coliseum.
and while once a year the marathon does, unless you were solving the puzzle on marathon day, you are never Near those who pass the coliseum.
its not saying be near their route, it says near them.
In this area the only thing that fits that description is the people on the freeway that passes the “coliseum”
unless I am missing something I don’t think the idea about the Boston Marathon root is valid.

erexere

The Berkley School of Music building looks very Colosseum-esque.

maltedfalcon

why the focus on the Boston marathon?
The verse says near those who pass the coliseum, not follow those who pass the coliseum…its not saying be near their route, it says near them. In this area the only thing that fits that description is the people on the freeway that passes the “coliseum”

Trohn

Near those who pass the coliseum
Could BP be referring to the Boston Marathon, while the original olympic marathon ended in the Athens Coliseum, the modern Boston Marathon ends in Copley Park.

maltedfalcon

unless you were solving the puzzle on marathon day, you are never Near those who pass the coliseum.

No it doesn’t. And it’s not even on your route.
I’m not sure what coliseum you’re referring to…?
Having discovered that there was a building called the Boston Coliseum in Copley Square, I think this is undoubtedly one reference.
I’m thinking that the verse and image are leading you back along the route of the marathon from the BPL to the 2C, which is “near those who pass the coliseum”; ie, near marathon runners.
Aw c’mon, it’s a riddle. I think you’re being a bit too literal here. “Near the marathon route” is close enough.

I was thinking of this building at Boylston/Mass.
I’m with maltedfalcon on the “Near” idea, which is why I’m not too keen on following the Commonwealth route.  Newbury/Mass/Boyleston are all “Near” rather than on the literal Marathon route.

erexere

I’m with maltedfalcon on the “Near” idea, which is why I’m not too keen on following the Commonwealth route.  Newbury/Mass/Boyleston are all “Near” rather than on the literal Marathon route.

This doesn’t make sense. Boylston and the BPL are the final stretch of the marathon route.
I’m saying the 2C is near the marathon route. Following the course of the marathon route back to this area seems more rational to me than almost-but-not-quite following it, especially since there are visual confirmers. But what the heck, as long as you finish up at the right place that’s OK.  😉

Near those who pass the coliseum
The Boston Coliseum was a temporary building in Copley Square.
http://www.celebrateboston.com/architec … liseum.htm
BP said that the homeland was significant. I guess the Italian connection is the Roman Coliseum which marks the end of the Rome marathon just as the BPL and Copley Square mark the end of the Boston marathon.
The Boston marathon takes place on Patriot’s Day, which provides a Revere connection.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patriots’_Day
Twelfth hour
It traditionally started at 12.00am.
“…20,000 runners taking off from the town of Hopkinton at the hallowed noon hour as has been the case since 1924…”
Starting at the BPL, the tall tower shown above is five turnings down Boylston marking the turn on the marathon route. This is
(1)
on the map.
Turn up Hereford, and on the corner of Hereford and Commonwealth where the route turns left (retracing) is this building at
(2)
…
Sure, it’s another castle, whoop-de-do.  😉
If you glance right here you can wave at Sarmiento. (His statue is on Commonwealth between Hereford and Gloucester.)
Retrace the marathon route a bit further along Commonwealth and you find yourself at the 2C. You can see the Citgo sign at the turning
(3)
.
The 2C is at
(4)
.
The puzzle revolves around the marathon route. The key is finding the coliseum/BPL/marathon connection and then realising that you’re being guided back along the route via directions and visual signposts until you reach the stairs by the water and the green tower of lights (beside the cross). Simple.  🙂

I’m down with the MTA sign, WR. Great find!

I just thought briefly about the falcon being a clue to use a skytale on the verse.  Put all the letters on one line and wrap it around a stick (no clue about what dimensions to use) continuously and see if the letters line up to make anything else…not that silly of an idea considering it was the only cryptographic method written about by both Thucydides and Xenophon (Kahn, David. 1967).

erexere

I just thought briefly about the falcon being a clue to use a skytale

Makes more sense than the Count Falconara theory I was wondering about earlier. (Character in a novel by
Horace Walpole
.)

I see it has an alternate spelling, scytale.  does the falcon’s claw look like a scythe?
I’ve ran all kinds of passes on this verse, just to waste my time of course…I’ll have to say it doesn’t look like there’s any secret message snuck into this verse….

Unknown

Unknown:
The original logo depicted Paul Revere on horseback with the words “Massachusetts Turnpike Authority” in a circle around him.

Feel at home
All the letters
Are here to see
Could “Feel at home” be a reference to country of origin, and Boston’s Italian connection…?
We’re given the home countries and a method to link them with images. BP has been known to work with verse initials. Is this the only verse with all the letters of a country of origin, ITALY, in its initials…? That could make this a clue to connect verse and image. We haven’t seen many of those.
I noticed a possible Revere connection to the 2C. It’s beside the Massachusetts Turnpike…
…which used to have Revere as the logo.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Massachusetts_Turnpike
There are hundreds of names on the BPL. Why Thucydides and Xenophon…? Maybe there’s something in that Horace / Go West idea…
The “take five [-5] steps” are what you find when you get there.

a few observations
“in the middle section” could refer to Middlesex County Mass., which Paul Revere rode through:
http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedi … sachusetts
http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/maps/m … s_map.html
“the area of his direction” does sound like the North End, but could also be Westford or Weston (in Middlesex County) if “his” refers to Revere.
Fox – I think you may have posted a link to the wrong [1844-1868] Horace Mann.  His more famous father [1796-1859] was also born in Mass. and is discussed here:
http://www.cals.ncsu.edu/agexed/aee501/mann.html
There are schools named after him all over the country.
I’ll be in Boston in early June and have friends who own shovels.

WR, you may be onto something here. I like your building pic matches.
Also, remember how this verse begins?
If Thucydides is
North of Xenophon
If you look up where the word “marathon” comes from, an ancient Greek city and battle, you’ll find lots of mentions of both Xenophon and Thucydides. For example:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Marathon

I think the BPL is the correct correlation with both our Greek buddies as well as all the letters are here to see.
Letter: letters (used with a sing. verb)
-Literary culture; belles-lettres.
-Learning or knowledge, especially of literature.
-Literature or writing as a profession.
“letters” would refer to highly educated people….authors and the like.
BPL definitely ties in with this V.

I think the BPL is the correct correlation with both our Greek buddies as well as all the
letters
are here to see.
Letter:
letters
(used with a sing. verb)
-Literary culture; belles-lettres.
-Learning or knowledge, especially of literature.
-Literature or writing as a profession.
“
letters
” would refer to highly educated people….authors and the like.
BPL definitely ties in with this V.

“You will also find them on the outside of the Boston Public Library.”
I am assuming this is the main branch only-Copley Square…
can someone post a photo of where the two are in relation
to each other here…?

See AmeliaElf’s post and photographs, this thread, February 17, 2005.

Hello again, Everyone.  I had a thought about the “castle” on the box.  Everyone seems to be trying to find the “castle”, but what if this isn’t one building, but several buildings that, when viewed from the casque site, line up like the picture on the box?  Even if true, that’s not really helpful, I know.  About the verse, Googling “In truth, be free”, I got a hit for John 8:32 (New Testament)… “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”  A paraphrasing?  Could the site be near a church?  I wasn’t into the copley thing, but trinity does have a carving of Saint John (and Luke, et Al.) outside.  One more crazy thought, “18th day, twelfth hour”..Who was Rever going to meet?  Sam Adams and
John Hancock
.  Two John references?  Hancock Tower?  I’m going to just keep throwing my weird ideas at you all, for the record.
P.S. My copy of the book came today.  Five dollars US on Ebay!  Yay!  Last time I held this book in my hand I was 10.  Good Night, Good Day, All.

Some rough ideas here and it would be great to get a detailed closeup of the facade at 448 Beacon Street, which I simply found by taking five steps North and East of the BPL.  I interpreted X as the intersection at BPL and Copley Square and T as the nearest bridge that takes you to MIT’s Engineering Library while taking a view from the steps of the Optometrist building.  There are lots of details yet for me to understand.  Understanding how the Freedom Trail works in is important and anything else related to a bird or L. Ron Hubbard might help.
I like the window architecture angle, let’s dig deeper into things glazier…

TzalosRex

About the verse, Googling “In truth, be free”, I got a hit for John 8:32 (New Testament)… “And ye shall know the truth, and the truth shall make you free.”  A paraphrasing?

Yep, you could imagine that the figure with the box is opening a wide book, with a slightly twisted perspective, and I’d wondered about this being a biblical reference, with a possible 1611 on the archway (King James Bible) and the resemblance between the flying fairy and the character “Faith” from Copley’s Red Crosse Knight.
Re: the castle, me and Erexere were talking about the one in Image 5. The one in this image is likely an adaptation or montage of a building or buildings like the Park Plaza hotel and/or a couple of buildings in Hereford or elsewhere. (There’s another Boston building called a castle – the
Boston University Castle
– although it doesn’t look like one.)
Boston seems to be quite well endowed with turrets. For instance, here’s another further out on the marathon route at the intersection of Beacon St and Dean Rd.
Left to right, this view has the general low tower / high tower / building-end form. No crenelated walls though. It’s currently
Lubin Chiropractic
.
It’s at 1751 Beacon St.
Samuel Prescott
was born in August 1751. He did the ride with Revere. In fact, he got through and Revere didn’t. That would be quite a nice twist – not Revere’s ride, but Prescott’s ride…

congrats tzalosrex
it’s funny you should mention churches, i was doing the same last night, not because of the castle but because of the words “in truth, be free”. i thought it was a quote from Jesus, tho, not John.  🙁
i was looking at the churches along the freedom trail. …………
king’s chapel  (castle)
🙂  and it is the
5th
stop on the freedom trail
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:1stKi … Boston.jpg
look at the turret
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-TAWaREVqIFA/T … Boston.JPG
i remember long time ago, i thought that looked like a football helmet, behind the tall turret in the image, and with the line “near those who pass”…….lol
also remember there being a circular plaque in the commons or the public garden, of a writer, i remember it had a big feather quill pen (image  (top),  (gilbert stuart) plaque)
i liked john hancock because he signed his name so large, for “all the letters are here to see”
ck posted a pic on page 38 of this thread, of the curlicues , and it shows
5
small round leaves:
remember how you guys were looking up fisk because of the dogleg in montreal…….look:
“The musical tradition of King’s Chapel dates back to 1713 when the church became the first in New England to acquire an organ. The present organ, the sixth, was made by C.B. Fisk in 1964. “

Choice

So this connection somewhat confirms my theory that “if … north of” should be interpreted as not really north but north-east. Practically the same direction as the two crosses T & X.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=774&start=2622

I’m re-posting this in the proper thread:

Merlot Brougham

I do not at all subscribe to the Charlesgate theory. That is all.

Good because it’s not there 🙂

decibalnyc

Good because it’s not there 🙂

That’s a relief to hear.

Merlot Brougham

That’s a relief to hear.

While it’s perfectly okay to not subscribe to the[a/any] Charlesgate theory, how are you so certain that it’s not there?

Fenway Park is perhaps most famous for the left field wall called the Green Monster. Constructed in 1934, the 37-foot, two-inch high wall is 240 feet long, has a 22-foot deep foundation, and was constructed from 30,000 pounds of Toncan iron.
Metal wall?  Found this here:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/156106776/
I wonder if back in 81′, 82′ the light towers at fenway were green?
( I apologize if this has been mentioned.  I just re-read thru the complete Verse3 thread and was not about to re-read the entire Image11 thread. But I will soon)
The Back Bay Fens Park has 2 baseball fields,
feel at home
.  All the foul lines have bleachers that look like stairs from the overhead from local.live.com.  Two of them are backed up to water. Bleachers, section(middle), stairs, looks good but….
All the letters are here to see
?  Across the river is the Museum of Fine Arts.

danielrisk

Has anyone ever tried to play with the periodic table for clues? Because of the Japanese translation hint, it really makes me think that same kind of cipher is needed that would immediately unravel the verse (hence he could give no clues).
Anyways back to the periodic table, When working with Thucydides and Xenophon, I lean more and more towards thinking those stand for something else. Played with T and X for awhile, which could mean Boston’s T and a railroad, or Texas. But if you add the second letters Th and Xe, Xe is Xenon on the periodic table. It’s also right next to “steps” of sort as it is drawn on some tables. And then of course “metal” walls, “all the letters are here to see”. A cipher playing with the periodic table would be pretty cool. I haven’t gotten anywhere further, but if someone is interested and wants to put a second pair of eyes on it, please feel free.
I’ve just never liked the Boston library answer for the names. There’s so many other names, it’s just way to open ended for my liking. The ONLY other places I’ve seen those names carved is next to the Cleaveland spot (very ironic) and Thucydides on Little Rock library, but that’s too new. Those just HAVE to be codes for something…but what? It will haunt me for all my years, as it has the past year 🙂

[EDIT: I realize the top posts on this page of the thread are my old goon comrade drunknerds and I just funning around. I’m giving him some shit in the spirit of his post. All theories and snide remarks in my post were 100% in jest. More casual readers or those new to the forum might be confused, so I want to point that out and mention what I say below is a serious post. Sorry I have to add the disclaimer, but these are the times we post in now]
I’m not sure it MUST be a code, but I have actually thought about both theories you mention and was never really able to figure anything out along those deeper lines. I would inevitably be forced to draw conclusions upon conclusions and it would implode from there.
I tend to err on the side of simplicity, but I also agree with what you say about the BPL carvings to be ‘the best we’ve had’ for a long time. I never liked having to use a figurative “north” to explain that. I suppose I could have missed something that satisfies my concern there, so if I did, please feel free to post a link to that (Not the Walpole quote either, that’s borderline Kenmore explanation for me (double parenthesis shoutout to burnstyle)). We know his directions in the Cleveland verse weren’t exactly precise either, though, so know knows. Many people have spent longer on Boston than I have, I freely admit that. I just always got the feeling most theories start with “We have Thucydides and Xenophon on the library, then *abracadabra*, we end up in this other part of Boston” to continue with where the given theory wants you to wind up.
Liked your post and the angle you took to look at it, so I wanted to thank you for throwing that out there. I’ve looked at those connections before and was never able to come up with anything worthy of mentioning, but that doesn’t mean a thing. You asked, though.

If someone decides to use the Walpole quote to land in Boston, that seems reasonable to me. Boston is North of NY and Walpole has Boston ties, so it fits. (I’m not implying this is the correct use, but it isn’t that much of a stretch.)
What bothers me is most people will use that quote and then immediately start their Boston journey at the Library. Is it really necessary to double down on the use of the T & X portion of the verse? You already got to Boston via Walpole. The names on the library wall become unnecessary and potentially coincidental. Much like the batch of painful explanations that show how Thucydides’ name is somehow North of Xenophon’s name on the wall when it clearly isn’t.

BINGO

If someone decides to use the Walpole quote to land in Boston, that seems reasonable to me. Boston is North of NY and Walpole has Boston ties, so it fits. (I’m not implying this is the correct use, but it isn’t that much of a stretch.)
What bothers me is most people will use that quote and then immediately start their Boston journey at the Library. Is it really necessary to double down on the use of the T & X portion of the verse? You already got to Boston via Walpole. The names on the library wall become unnecessary and potentially coincidental. Much like the batch of painful explanations that show how Thucydides’ name is somehow North of Xenophon’s name on the wall when it clearly isn’t.

The Library seems to fit the puzzle:
“Aligning the southern edge of Copley Square is McKim, Mead & White’s Boston Public Library. At its opening in 1895 the Renaissance Revival building was proclaimed a “palace to the people.” The building is ornamented by many lavish embellishments including monumental inscriptions, sculpture, murals, and light fixtures. Nestled into the building’s core is an open-air courtyard closely based on that of the sixteenth-century Palazzo della Cancelleria in Rome.
Designed in the manner of a Renaissance cloister, the courtyard is surrounded by an arcaded gallery. In the middle is a small plaza with a square fountain basin. At the center of the basin is Frederick William Macmonnies’ “Dancing Bacchante and Infant Faun” atop a granite plinth, animated by a circle of water jets.”
https://tclf.org/landscapes/boston-publ … -courtyard

danielrisk

… Xenophon …

My 1st look and 1st post on this thread so be gentle!
Xeno-phon literally means phonetically sounds like Xeno.
Anyone been to planet Xenu?!

gManTexas

The Library seems to fit the puzzle:
“Aligning the southern edge of Copley Square is McKim, Mead & White’s Boston Public Library. At its opening in 1895 the Renaissance Revival building was proclaimed a “palace to the people.” The building is ornamented by many lavish embellishments including monumental inscriptions, sculpture, murals, and light fixtures. Nestled into the building’s core is an open-air courtyard closely based on that of the sixteenth-century Palazzo della Cancelleria in Rome.
Designed in the manner of a Renaissance cloister, the courtyard is surrounded by an arcaded gallery. In the middle is a small plaza with a square fountain basin. At the center of the basin is Frederick William Macmonnies’ “Dancing Bacchante and Infant Faun” atop a granite plinth, animated by a circle of water jets.”
https://tclf.org/landscapes/boston-publ … -courtyard

How do you get to the Library to begin with? Do you have a QUALITY image match? Anything that is beyond dispute?
What part of the verse gets you to the Library? The T&X quote and names on the wall? If so, I’ve never heard a reasonable explanation why T is North of X on the building. Most of the accepted explanations are crap, plain and simple.
Is it the Romanesque style of the building? The city and surrounding towns are rich with those types of buildings. They can be found everywhere. Not to mention, art, literature and sculptures are abundant in every city with a cultural history. Boston is no exception.
Is it the courtyard? For me, the courtyard is out for a few reasons. The original statue from your article was removed just a few years after it was displayed because of the unsavory image that it portrayed. The courtyard has undergone multiple renovations and the statue that stands there now is a replica replaced during one of those renovations. One happened just before the book was published and another in the 1990’s. At the end of 1980, the whole area was boarded up. (See pic) Currently, there is a plaque on the wall inside the courtyard that explains how it was renovated again in the 1990’s with money that was donated in honor of a benefactor’s wife or husband.
My point is, we don’t have to believe or be influenced by everything the wiki tells us. I think this hunt has turned into people taking a preconceived location and using the piss poor wiki explanations of clues to help prove their case. This hasn’t worked for a long time and I highly doubt that it will start to pay dividends any time soon.

BINGO

How do you get to the Library to begin with? Do you have a QUALITY image match? Anything that is beyond dispute?
What part of the verse gets you to the Library? The T&X quote and names on the wall? If so, I’ve never heard a reasonable explanation why T is North of X on the building. Most of the accepted explanations are crap, plain and simple.
Is it the Romanesque style of the building? The city and surrounding towns are rich with those types of buildings. They can be found everywhere. Not to mention, art, literature and sculptures are abundant in every city with a cultural history. Boston is no exception.
Is it the courtyard? For me, the courtyard is out for a few reasons. The original statue from your article was removed just a few years after it was displayed because of the unsavory image that it portrayed. The courtyard has undergone multiple renovations and the statue that stands there now is a replica replaced during one of those renovations. One happened just before the book was published and another in the 1990’s. At the end of 1980, the whole area was boarded up. (See pic) Currently, there is a plaque on the wall inside the courtyard that explains how it was renovated again in the 1990’s with money that was donated in honor of a benefactor’s wife or husband.
My point is, we don’t have to believe or be influenced by everything the wiki tells us. I think this hunt has turned into people taking a preconceived location and using the piss poor wiki explanations of clues to help prove their case. This hasn’t worked for a long time and I highly doubt that it will start to pay dividends any time soon.

I hear what you are saying and I agree to certain extent. I think most of the hunts begin at Libraries. In that time period, it is where you would go to research the puzzle, and they are Free to All. My motivation is not because of the Wiki site, in fact, most of the stuff on there is wrong in my opinion.
Unless there is a better option for T&X out there, it seems reasonable that the library is a good landmark. Let’s look at it the other way, since the question is “If Thucydides is North of Xenophon”. Since it is not on the library wall, we would be instructed to go in the opposite direction. If we consider that Walpole is the source of “his” direction, being in the East, this leads us West, toward the Fens area.
Having said that, I think that T&X probably have some other meaning as well, since most of the clues come in two’s. The question to be answered is what is the second clue?

gManTexas

I hear what you are saying and I agree to certain extent. I think most of the hunts begin at Libraries. In that time period, it is where you would go to research the puzzle, and they are Free to All. My motivation is not because of the Wiki site, in fact, most of the stuff on there is wrong in my opinion.
Unless there is a better option for T&X out there, it seems reasonable that the library is a good landmark. Let’s look at it the other way, since the question is “If Thucydides is North of Xenophon”. Since it is not on the library wall, we would be instructed to go in the opposite direction. If we consider that Walpole is the source of “his” direction, being in the East, this leads us West, toward the Fens area.
Having said that, I think that T&X probably have some other meaning as well, since most of the clues come in two’s. The question to be answered is what is the second clue?

I like T for just the T and X maybe for Exeter St. Also…THE LENOX hotel…signs just says THE LENOX – starts w T ends w X. T is north of X in that case.
I dont love the library.
I feel like there are much better explanations for T and X….if even just to get you to the small city of Boston w that letter.

T&X are almost a moot point since we know the casque is somewhere in Boston. I’m not sure how much value T&X adds to solving this puzzle. I’m in the camp that you can probably solve these with only 80% of the clues figured out.

BINGO

How do you get to the Library to begin with? Do you have a QUALITY image match? Anything that is beyond dispute?
What part of the verse gets you to the Library? The T&X quote and names on the wall? If so, I’ve never heard a reasonable explanation why T is North of X on the building. Most of the accepted explanations are crap, plain and simple.
Is it the Romanesque style of the building? The city and surrounding towns are rich with those types of buildings. They can be found everywhere. Not to mention, art, literature and sculptures are abundant in every city with a cultural history. Boston is no exception.
Is it the courtyard? For me, the courtyard is out for a few reasons. The original statue from your article was removed just a few years after it was displayed because of the unsavory image that it portrayed. The courtyard has undergone multiple renovations and the statue that stands there now is a replica replaced during one of those renovations. One happened just before the book was published and another in the 1990’s. At the end of 1980, the whole area was boarded up. (See pic) Currently, there is a plaque on the wall inside the courtyard that explains how it was renovated again in the 1990’s with money that was donated in honor of a benefactor’s wife or husband.
My point is, we don’t have to believe or be influenced by everything the wiki tells us. I think this hunt has turned into people taking a preconceived location and using the piss poor wiki explanations of clues to help prove their case. This hasn’t worked for a long time and I highly doubt that it will start to pay dividends any time soon.

I hope you charge your phone soon…you’re getting into the danger zone

The “Walpole is west” part really baffles me.
1. Why introduce another direction and character. We already have two characters (X and T) and a direction (North).
2. Preiss had a master’s degree in communications. While not outside the realm of possibility, I just can’t see someone that obsessed with words using a pronoun which refers to an antecedcent that’s not the most recent applicable noun. It’s a staple of grammar. So “take five steps in his direction” would have to refer to Xenophon, as it is the most recently used masculine name before the pronoun. So five steps south. From what though? The library? If so, that’s a great clue but five steps from the library gets us… nowhere really?

drunknerds

The “Walpole is west” part really baffles me.
1. Why introduce another direction and character. We already have two characters (X and T) and a direction (North).
2. Preiss had a master’s degree in communications. While not outside the realm of possibility, I just can’t see someone that obsessed with words using a pronoun which refers to an antecedcent that’s not the most recent applicable noun. It’s a staple of grammar. So “take five steps in his direction” would have to refer to Xenophon, as it is the most recently used masculine name before the pronoun. So five steps south. From what though? The library? If so, that’s a great clue but five steps from the library gets us… nowhere really?

Also, if you mention two guys and then use the word “his” you’d better be referring to one of those two guys. Otherwise it’s not a puzzle, it’s just lying.
Let me check satellite photos and report back…

drunknerds

The “Walpole is west” part really baffles me.
1. Why introduce another direction and character. We already have two characters (X and T) and a direction (North).
2. Preiss had a master’s degree in communications. While not outside the realm of possibility, I just can’t see someone that obsessed with words using a pronoun which refers to an antecedcent that’s not the most recent applicable noun. It’s a staple of grammar. So “take five steps in his direction” would have to refer to Xenophon, as it is the most recently used masculine name before the pronoun. So five steps south. From what though? The library? If so, that’s a great clue but five steps from the library gets us… nowhere really?

You’re the one who has said that BP was a crappy puzzle maker
My guess is that he was warping the words because it had to fit whatever other 2nd meaning to the clue.

I’m not sure how Horace Walpole’s letter to Horace Mann relates to Horace Greeley’s “Go West, young man”.
I guess if you mix up a bunch of Horasses and the word man a couple times, you can get anywhere you want.

gManTexas

You’re the one who has said that BP was a crappy puzzle maker
My guess is that he was warping the words because it had to fit whatever other 2nd meaning to the clue.

True, but he was particularly choosy about words.
It would be cool if there were five steps leading south from the library wall with the words. Today there are six though, not sure how it looked in 1980
Edit: Just verified, it’s had 6 steps for a long long time.

And, if I’m going to get literal, why not take it all the way: Since T is not north of X on the library wall, we shouldn’t take five steps in his direction. Heck, I can do that at home!

The way I see it, BPL is a nonstarter.
I agree that ‘his’ direction is Xenophon, south of Thucydides. One reason Preiss may have chosen those names is to represent T and X as a setting hint for taxes, which gels with Boston’s history.
Another place in the verse which may help direct us south is “your back to the stairs”, which could be the stairs of the Old North Church tower as a generalized implication having to do with the signal light used to communicate with Paul Revere -one if by land and two if by sea. I’m not suggesting we physically take a position off the Old North Church. Could be one of those light posts in the Charlesgate is playing out it’s message to locate the casque by going south from it’s position. Where those five steps begin and end is still a matter of finding the right cross references.

BINGO

I fully admit that I’ve never given it the attention that it probably deserves. I’ve been there a few times, looked things over and nothing grabbed my attention. So, I moved on.
Myself and others in Boston tend to revisit areas regularly just to see if we missed anything and to take another look with fresh eyes. This is definitely a site that deserves another visit.

I’ll take a walk over there again on my lunch break this week. I do not believe you can get in that area of the lawn of the statehouse. I tried to get on on the other side of the lawn to see the Horace Mann statue. No luck. I usually dont strike out when i ask for these types of favors haha. I asked some of the guards about it and even tried to get one to come out with me. They are very protective of the lawn area post 9/11 and let no one on it. Nice people though. They brought me to a Horace Mann painting inside instead. Nothing noteworthy there.
I’ll definitely give it another shot!

Also, Backstop…I’ll head over to the fens again soon.
It’s not an easy lunch break trip for me because I work downtown. Maybe I’ll score some sox tix…hoooopefully… and then hit up the fens first! Go Sox!

Fenix

What I am interested in understanding from Strike and Bingo, or any other locals, is what are the other top options for In truth, be free matches. I cannot imagine that line being matched to something that is not close to the final location. I’m not saying the casque is on the state house lawn but if the Dyer statue is correct, then it is likely nearby.

One of the popular theories is the song Ode on Washington’s Birthday, one line says “let our land in truth be free.” Two lines later, the lyric is “on to victory”. Many people believe that this is a direction to go to the Victory Gardens at the Fens.
I’m not really a huge supporter of this theory. But, my opinion changes regularly about almost everything Boston related.
I’ve knocked around a theory that involves the Freedom Trail through Boston. It is a historical walking tour of the cities most notable landmarks. A few of the lines in the verse can be applied to stops along the trail. (Paul Revere’s home, the Old North Church, the Old State House and even the statue of Washington at the entrance of the Public Gardens.)
I may not be the biggest fan of the walking path solutions to these puzzles, but you can make the Freedom Trail fit verse 3 if you try hard enough.