As you can see, lots of countries north of the curve, and just the Italian Garden south of the curve and fit along the north boundary of the Grecian Garden.
The wall outlined in grey runs almost north/south and the red dot indicates the back side where the casque was found below the second panel with the name Apelles.

Unknown

Unknown:
They are backwards.

The entire verse is backwards. He brings you in the back of Greek Gardens, and directs you to the columns, which are in front. Be that as it may, in 1982/83 anyone who found the site was almost assured of recovering the casque. It’s a small, self-contained area that would have taken no more than an hour or two to explore fully. And common sense would have told you that if you were hitting a bunch of roots, you probably were on the wrong side. This is in no way a knock on Andy or Brian. They were digging 20 years after the casque was buried, and would have had no way of knowing if the roots that were giving Brian so much trouble were even there in 1982.

burnstyle

The words in the book are listed as “Socrates, Pindar, Apelles”. The words as written on the monument are: Apelles, Pindar, Socrates. They are backwards.

Thank you burnstyle.

Kang

Question for Burnstyle:
On the most recent podcast you mentioned your recent visit to Cleveland and that the counting of the bricks being opposite/backwards was not a mistake or bad puzzle-making, but something that we were supposed to figure out – based on the words (names?) on the wall being backwards or reversed. Or an inscription being backwards or in reverse order or something.
Sorry, but I didn’t quite follow what you’re saying you saw there. Would you be able to clarify exactly what inscription you are referring to and how it now leads you to the backwards conclusion? Thanks in advance!

The words in the book are listed as “Socrates, Pindar, Apelles”
The words as written on the monument are: Apelles, Pindar, Socrates. They are backwards.

I thought the exact same thing

that seems to be a logical conclusion.  I, however; am tossing around another idea on those lines at the moment.  Not getting anywhere….YET.

erexere

Egbert, I was looking over you’re article and I could make out the lines for the bricks in you’re photos, does this look like the right interpretation of the count?
Beneath the tenth stone
From right to left
Beneath the ninth row from the top
Of the wall including small bricks

The stones I counted “from right to left” are the ones at the top of the wall, which you cannot really see in the photo.  I did that because it says “beneath” two times in the verse.  I suppose you could do it your way as well, but we were standing in the garden when we were counting.  The crazy part was the “right to left” clue, which I think should have been “from left to right.”

Egbert, I was looking over you’re article and I could make out the lines for the bricks in you’re photos, does this look like the right interpretation of the count?
Beneath the tenth stone
From right to left
Beneath the ninth row from the top
Of the wall including small bricks

Obviously if you’re on the columns side of the wall the poem reads correctly as “right to left”, but when you’re on the dig side of the wall it seems wrong unless you count standing on top of the dig spot where the “right to left” count would still hold as you’re still on the inside of the outer boundary of bricks which make up that 9th from the top row of bricks.  It’s a little tricky but it’s perfectly accurate in terms of observation from the actual digger’s perspective.
In retrospect, it should seem easier to see, but as Whiterabbit puts it, I too was always a little unsure of where or how exactly this digspot made sense.  Thanks for you’re input, Egbert.

Glossiphoniidae

I’ve been look at the iconic images and the most direct route from the building to the casque site, for the solved casques, anyways. They vary greatly in distance – 1.6 miles from Chicago Water Tower to location; 4.5 miles from Terminal Tower to location. Regardless, they are both fairly straight lines of walking.

…yeah, quite an interesting perspective on those diagrams. I guess Milwaukee is the most similar image for comparison…how does that compare?
(Erexere, thanks for trying to pinpoint this thing, I’ve never known exactly where it was.)

SoonerFan posted this in another thread, but I put it here because it has to do with Verse 4:
________________________________________________
I just started working on this hunt last week (the book is on its way) so i don’t have much right now, but i did find the connection to Cleveland in the verse.
Johann, are you talking about the Cleveland Cultural Gardens for verse 4? I think that is a good possibility.
http://www.clevelandmemory.com/ebooks/tpap/PG51.html
Check out the picture at the top of the above website. “Seek the columns for the search” may be refering to these. Also, from the text on that site,
“The chief feature of this garden is a pylon symbolizing the wall of the Parthenon, dedicated to the Greek spirit in philosophy, art, literature, and science. It is inscribed with the names of Solon, Ictinus, Callicrates, Phidias, Aristophanes, Pericles, Euripides, Sophocles, Aeschylus, Homer, Praxiteles, Zeuxis, Apelles, Myron, Lysippus, Scopas, Sappho, Socrates, Anaxagoras, Aristotle, Plato, Aristarchus, Demosthenes, Pindar, Archimedes, Herodotus, Xenophon, Thucydides, Euclid, Hippocrates, Ptolemy, Pythagoras, Polycletus, and El Greco.”
so we have Socrates, Apelles and Pindar. The Greek Garden borders the Italian Garden and the Lithuanian Garden. There is walkway between the Greek and Italian Gardens. I would guess that the casque is buried somewhere near that path between the 2 gardens.
The Greek Garden is also sunken so that may explain the “bottom level” and the steps.
_________________________________________________
SoonerFan, this is great stuff.  If you look at the bottom picture on the webpage, you will see a view of the garden from the wall.  Verse 4 speaks about a “rectangular plot,” which is right there, and then talks about where to dig by referring to the row and column of the stones, which are also there.  If anyone is near Cleveland, it might be worth it to dig in the exact spot stated in the verse.  Can anyone figure out if there are 7 steps in that picture?  It’s hard to make out.

This is all what I had in mind, but I was collecting data before posting.  The centaur image picture is linked to this garden.  Look at the Doric columns and the backgrounds in the Greek garden.  They match the background of the arch.  Also, part of the Italian garden matches the arch and keystone of the image, as well as the “shell” fountain.
As you already know, the Italian and Greek gardens are next to each other and linked by a path.
The cultural gardens are bordered by Martin Luther King, Jr. Boulevard, which used to be named Liberty Ave., so that would account for the deceptive liberty bell at the bottom of the picture.  The upside-down “spire” image in the trees looks a lot like a notable building in Cleveland (I forgot the name of it).
Who is near Cleveland?  I can go there at the beginning of May, unless someone can get there before then and find the treasure.
–Johann

addendum:
I have posted more about this on the image 4 thread.

I have emailed Byron Preiss, and waiting for a reply.  I tried calling, but only got an answering machine.  I am going to ask him if I can keep the key, rather than having to turn it in for the jewel.  Why would he need it anyway?  It’s more sentimental to me.  I am planning to put the jewel in a setting (perhaps in the shape of a key), and give it to my wife for her birthday.

Wait a second!
I don’t have my book with me, can someone check for me,
didn’t it say something about not digging in flower beds?
Maltedfalcon
Matt Sparks

Well, as I posted elsewhere, I did what I previously thought was impossible, and found a treasure casque.  Here are the details:
My friend Andy and I left New Jersey at about 8 pm, and then drove 9 hours to Cleveland.  Mapquest said it would only take 6 hours 30 minutes, so that was an unexpectedly long trip.  We got to the hotel at 5 am, and asked for a wakeup call for 8 am.  Unfortunately, I had so much caffeine in my system by that point, combined with the anticipation, I got 1 hour’s sleep at best.
Before the trip, I had contacted the Cleveland Plain Dealer to see if they could get me permission to dig there.  They gave me the name of the person to contact, who was the caretaker for the Greek Cultural Garden, and he graciously allowed me to dig.  He even mailed me blueprints (!) of the site, and was there with some tools (he was fixing something with a friend of his).  The reporter was also there.
I wanted to take my time and look at the Italian fountains and Greek wall, and try and figure out the remaining parts of the verse while there.  However, when we got there, there was a wedding being set up in the Greek Garden (!!!), which was going to occur at noon.  So, if I was going to dig in front of the wall anywhere, I would have to figure out where very soon!
During our 9-hour car ride, Andy and I tried to figure out the parts of verse 4 which were still a mystery.  I was particularly interested in the line, “7 steps up you can hop.”  Why “hop” and not “walk”?  Why was there no stairway with 7 steps in it?  The caretaker had told me that there was a path and bench behind the wall, along with pedastals for 2 urns which were not there any more.  So, we thought that maybe the answer lies behind the wall (I was thinking of a statue of a frog or a rabbit, to connect with the word “hop”).
When we got there, Andy immediately went behind the wall, where we saw our answer.
As the above pic shows, behind the wall is a concrete bench which is actually below the level of the wall.  There is a steep slope behind the wall, so there are stairs leading up to the bench.  Right next to the back of the wall, above the bench, is a rectangular plot of dirt with bushes in it.  You have to “hop” up the steps, onto the bench, and onto the rectangular plot to get there.  Since that is the only place where you have to jump up, we figured that that was the right place to dig.
(…..to be continued…….)

Unknown

Unknown:
Apelles was also noted for putting his paintings on public display then hiding behind them to hear the thoughts of the viewers as they looked at them…
Don’t know if that means anything I thought I would just throw it out…

I threw this out earlier and thought I was reaching –
but I wonder if this is a hint it was behind the wall…
Matt Sparks

That’s a good point about Apelles.  Btw, that’s the one clue we never figured out.
“Socrates, Pindar, Apelles”
“Free speech, couplet, birch.”
Why mention those 3 names?  Socrates and Pindar are on a tablet together, but Apelles is by himself. The treasure was sort of buried behind Apelles.
We thought that the 2 urns behind the wall could signify “couplet,” and that “Liberty Blvd” which was also behind the wall could signify “free speech”, but we have no idea about birch.  According to the caretaker, there were no birch trees ever in the garden.

(…….the story, continued…..)
The verse says that you have to count 10 stones from right to left, and then 9 rows down from the top of the wall.  Well, it just so happens that there are 9 rows in the middle part of the wall in the back, so that was a good sign.
As for counting the 10 stones from right to left, we figured that we could count the stones in the wall (only the bottom row had at least 10 stones in it), or the stone slabs layed out in front of the bench (which the caretaker said may have been replaced over the years, so they may not be exactly in the same location).  In any event, whichever ones you use, it takes you to the left-most part of the rectangular plot if you are standing in front of the bench and facing the wall.  So, I figured that it must be there.
We used thin metal poles to probe the ground while we were digging, but there were lots of tree roots which led us to false hopes and lots of digging.  I dug for 5 hours, only taking a 10-minute break for lunch.  I dug the entire left side of the plot, including the bushes.  It was 5 feet by 5 feet by 3 feet deep.  Nothing.  I was exhausted, and out of ideas, other than to ask my friend Andy to probe in the other part of the plot.  He was probing and digging a little, when he found a piece of broken plexiglass, and then another.  It was only 1 and one-half feet down, on the right side of the plot.  It was in many pieces, and covered in mud.
Andy and I figured that when it says “seek the columns for the search,” it means that you need to be standing in front of the wall, near the columns, when you count 10 stones from right to left.  That’s a very tricky clue, and we could have easily not found it as a result.  But fate was on our side, and I guess someone up above must have thought that I had suffered enough, when we found the treasure at 3:26 pm.
The picture that I had burned into my mind for 22 years — the Centaur — had been solved.  It was an indescribable feeling, and I hope each of you will find your treasure one day.  I have found mine, and I am happy.

That is totally possible,
but I think the Euclid ave to East Blvd route, (while longer) makes more sense.

Spiritr

Matt, l remember looking at your site you make micro models like these…
that makes me wonder, as I’m trying to create the Cultural Gardens in 3D, with the scans, I basically convert it all to .dxg then scale it to 1:1 in feet, and just “pull” it out, very easy, but takes time….
on the other hand,you think you can make something out of it?
a micro Italian/Grecian Cultural for The Secret?

You are going to have an interesting adventure trying to make a 3D surface file out of this plan. One problem that stands out to me is the fact that the horizontal dimensions on the plan are in feet and inches. Pretty standard, but if you look at the vertical units (elevation), it is listed in decimal feet, also a standard.
To get a true 3D digital model, in the correct scale, you have to unify all of the dimensional units. Not difficult to do, but completely necessary if you plan to actually go through with this useless excersize.

Spiritr

Matt, l remember looking at your site you make micro models like these…
that makes me wonder, as I’m trying to create the Cultural Gardens in 3D, with the scans, I basically convert it all to .dxg then scale it to 1:1 in feet, and just “pull” it out, very easy, but takes time….
on the other hand,you think you can make something out of it?
a micro Italian/Grecian Cultural for The Secret?

That would be very cool, unfortunately I am spending all my free time on finding new casques.
and building the tools to do that.
my paper model designs also have a backlog I would need to work through first

BINGO

[You are going to have an interesting adventure trying to make a 3D surface file out of this plan. One problem that stands out to me is the fact that the horizontal dimensions on the plan are in feet and inches. Pretty standard, but if you look at the vertical units (elevation), it is listed in decimal feet, also a standard.
To get a true 3D digital model, in the correct scale, you have to unify all of the dimensional units. Not difficult to do, but completely necessary if you plan to actually go through with this useless excersize.

no, sketchup did all the unit conversion for me already, regardless what scale the plans are, all I need were the vectors from the .dxf files.
then get the kml files for the terrain, and a mapbox custom layout, snaps it on to google earth, done.

the idea was not just to create a 3D sim
what I’m trying to do is recreating the scene, with all of my research in the past 3 months, I concluded that all, if not most of BP’s buried site were covered by trees or completely blocked off from aerial views.
so with the original plans, I can bring back what the park was like in 1980, knowing the depth of every flower bed, and all the stones including small bricks to exact.
well, I can’t say exact because coloring is an issues…

random thoughts on first reading of verse 4:
sounds like they are describing a brick/stone wall: Count down rows and across stones until you find the right one. And there are steps with names of philosphers on them.
“…Apelles
Free speech, couplet, birch
To find casque’s destination
Seek the columns
For the search.”
maybe a memorial to the evolution of thought?  And does the last bit tie to the image with the sand dunes in the background and the sulpture garden of columns, perhaps?

Two references for Apelles:
NE SUPRA CREPIDAM SUTOR IUDICARET. Let a cobbler not judge beyond a sandal. (“Stick with what you know.”) –Apelles, as quoted by Pliny the Elder
The painter Apelles  painted his Aphrodite Rising from the Sea.
both good possibilities for being on a public building.

http://www.abcgallery.com/I/ingres/ingresbio.html
Apotheosis of Homer, by Ingres, is a painting which has Socrates, Pindar, and Apelles in it.  It also looks like it has 7 steps.  But it’s in the Louvre.  Hmm.
http://www.usc.edu/schools/annenberg/asc/projects/comm544/library/images/087.html

Salvador Dali painted a version of that tableau …
http://www.ovayolu.freeserve.co.uk/dali/apotheosis.html
… and his museum is in Florida.

Birch: History of Ancient Pottery. (Samuel Birch, 1858)
I wonder if the line “free speech, couplet, birch” is a nuanced way of saying “right, pair, pot”.
Egbert described finding the casque on the
right
side of the planter as you would be facing the wall and the
pair
of
pots
.

Matt, l remember looking at your site you make micro models like these…
that makes me wonder, as I’m trying to create the Cultural Gardens in 3D, with the scans, I basically convert it all to .dxg then scale it to 1:1 in feet, and just “pull” it out, very easy, but takes time….
on the other hand,you think you can make something out of it?
a micro Italian/Grecian Cultural for The Secret?

I think I’m seeing something that explains the Apelles:birch correlation.  According to biographical materials, Apelles made visit with Protogenes, his contemporary and rival artist.  In a sort of standoff, they challenged eachother by painting an extremely fine line across a panel.  In response, Protogenes drew a second and finer line above it.  Apelles one-upped tht by painting an even finer line between the two lines which allowed for no further improvements.  I can’t help but see this as an example of two countries establishing their border and the wall being the final demarcation.
The best word I can think of to describe the gist of the verse is ‘bound’.  To bound means to jump or hop, but a boundary means a wall, or a fence, or that outline making up a rectangular plot.  Chiron, the quintessential centaur, gave his life to free Prometheus from his bounds.
Maybe this will help people understand there’s indeed a more thematic context and purpose to these puzzles.

Where does the birch tie in?

Deuce

Where does the birch tie in?

Dude, I was drinking a beer.  I forgot to mention that the only thing I could think of as a reason to mention the birch was as representing the quality of thinness.  The bit about Apelles and his painting of a thin line was to follow.

I am new here (came over from the Somethingawful forums). I read through this thread hoping for insight into the prior find. There certainly seems to be some aspects which can be made to fit but has there been thought over the past decade that perhaps this verse did not actually match the Cleveland cask? I ask because I am struck that Cleveland and Boston seem to be the only places I can find where Xenophon and Thucydides overlap and I’m having a hard time finding a Boston fit for verse 3. Could verse 3 somehow, instead, match Cleveland? Cleveland seemed to have had a metal coliseum. Does anyone know if Xenophon was north of Thucydides on the Greek Garden wall (he is not on the Boston Public Library!)
In any event, I’m sure verse 4 is a fit for Cleveland and it seems that verse 3 is a fit for the Boston area. He certainly had to have noticed that both places had X and T so I wonder how much more connections there are between sites…

The first line:  Beneath two countries
Countries are typically separated by natural borders such as mountains, rivers, lakes, oceans, but sometimes they have an actual wall, a fence or border patrol.  The casque was found at the base of a monolithic wall.  A wall is a perfect representation for “Between two countries”.  Although the actuall word used is “beneath”, I think the intention is subtle and clear that the first line operates on two levels, 1) introduction to the Italy/Vatican idea helps get the searcher to the country “beneath” or “to the south” which is the Greek Garden, and 2) last off, the wall becomes the final spot to investigate.

Guardian

There’s little doubt the most famous stone structure in the world is Stonehenge

Guardian

As for “Seek the columns”, that singles out the Greek area of the Gardens. There’s no doubt about that. But why single out the columns? Why not something else? It’s very possible he used them for a double meaning.

That’s pretty speculative. Also keep in mind he’s peppered the verse with famous Greek names.
It has been brought up before, but it seems to help match the verse to the image as there are only two images with obvious columns in them.

The columns are at the beginning of the path that leads to the rectangular plot where the Greek casque was found.
They were one of the waypoints to the burial site and why they were ‘singled out’ as well as linking verse/poem and giving us the Greek connection.

Guardian was right, from the minute you steps in GCG , you should be able to recover the casque with just the first 7 lines.
I believe Line 8 the 14 were getting you ready or directing you, as a hint, for the next casque/location.

Doghousereiley

I listen to Burnstyle and the Japanese translator
When referring to the line about the columns He say Priess said they are made of stone and think of the most famous stone structure in the world
I thought of the Greek Parthenon. The parthenon is basically just columns like the one in the image with a roof
I surmise Priess thought “the columns” were to lead one to think Parthenon and thus Greece and then to the Greek Gardens

There’s little doubt the most famous stone structure in the world is Stonehenge, with the Great Pyamids and Great Wall of China not far behind. In ancient times, though, it was definitely the Parthenon.
This has to make you wonder how much history he put into the puzzles. Where are historical items found? Museums. And at least two museums may be part of their puzzles: the deYoung in SF’s Music Concourse (which would connect to the music theme in Chicago) and the Houston Museum of Natural Science, at the north end of Hermann Park. Unfortunately, since Verse 4 still isn’t fully understood, we can’t draw a better conclusion.
As for “Seek the columns”, that singles out the Greek area of the Gardens. There’s no doubt about that. But why single out the columns? Why not something else? It’s very possible he used them for a double meaning.

It’s a strange shaped area, but I think the curved road along the north border of the Italian garden is the focus of the verse line “as the road curves”.
I see the MLKJr. Drive and East Blvd streets as west and east boundaries to the Gardens.  The Grecian Garden is strictly bound south of the Italian Garden.  The columns are on the east side entrance and the wall runs roughly north/south with stairs allowing a person to go down and around to to the MLKJr. Drive.
That is saying the wall doesn’t separate the Greek from the Italian gardens.

I finally understand what ‘beneath two countries’ means.  Italy.  Italy contains a second country within its boundary.  The Vatican City State, an independent sovereign city state.
South of the Italian Gardens is all this line means.

I see there was a bust of Pericles in 1981.  I have found no pictures of it, but it might be the aim of the words ‘free speech’.
The 2 Cups (urns) behind the wall are most likely the aim of ‘couplet’.
I have only one idea for ‘birch’.  Egbert claims the casque was found at the same spot on the wall where Apelles name is written.  Apelles is the only name on the wall which might be considered a homonym for a kind of tree: Apple.  Perhaps ‘birch’ is only to say, “look for a tree” clue.

So your saying it doesn’t mean on the border of the Italian and Greek gardens.

isnt it the condition that the road curves
and
its beneath two countries? That and the road is represented in the painting.

erexere

No.  The Italian and Greek gardens are north/south adjacent.  It seems that “below” is indicating “south of” in this case and so the border itself doesn’t give us a “below” or “south of” position.  The curved road bounding the northern edge of the Italian garden is itself south of several (more than two) countries.
Perceiving Italy as a special case of being inclusive of “two countries” is exactly how Preiss meant the line to be understood.  This is worth pointing out if it helps us understand Preiss’ style.  He put a lot more mojo in these verses than people are willing to admit.
Another idea I’ve considered is why Preiss chose a “hooved creature” for this image.  Cleveland = “Cleave”-land.  Cleave = Clove, and a kind of hoof, one that’s split, is called a “cloven-hoof”.  Thoughts?

While I can get down with your “two countries” interpretation, and I think it’s actually a pretty clever point, I think you should step off your horse when saying anything is “exactly how Preiss meant” something to be understood. I also think the “Cleve” being drawn from the horse in the picture is a bit of a stretch.

I take it you didn’t like my pun on ‘pilot’ in that P3/V11 threads.
I use the word exactly because as I described, the bounds of the gardens when looking at the map when compared to the verse puts us to the question of how to understand the word ‘below’ and why there are more than and not exactly two countries unless you consider the option I’ve put forth, which being two is exactly as he states in the verse as “two”.  Saying two is two isn’t any kind of “high on my horse” approach.  I’m not denouncing or deriding anyone in my post.  I’m trying to uplift everyone, including my own awareness of the tricks he uses in his word choices.
Do you have a better alternative, although you already have pointed out you can consider my Italy as two countries idea?  Should I do a better job showing how the map of the gardens doesn’t show any other option where two countries are exactly north and clearly bounded in a way that makes sense?
Is there anything else to be learned from Chicago or Cleveland?  I think there might be.  Again, I don’t think I’m trying to be high on a horse with that statement.  I think it’s practical to consider that even though they have been “solved”, they might not be completely understood.  Let’s get in on this action.  Share.  I won’t be attacking your ideas.  I’d love to hear them.

I could be totally wrong here.
but I thought the structure where the casque was found, was a wall, of which the front side faced into the Greek gardens. and the backside
which was technically an unplanted cement box, faced into the Italian garden.  I.e. right on the border.  or beneath two countries.
This is totally an assumption, I have no proof of this, Ive never seen an exact map of the gardens with the placement of all the elements noted.
The other thing I was thinking was there was something on the backside of the wall that indicated two countries. so that the casque was buried beneath them.
It has been so long I have forgotten the details, but I think it was one or the other.

I looked into it a d verified my findings.  I’ll post a map of the layout later today.

A friend of mine thinks the lines “Beneath two countries / As the road curves” refer to the Detroit-Windsor tunnel.
www.dwtunnel.com
www.visitwindsor.com
There are a couple of parks along the waterfront where the tunnel comes out on the Canada side.  There is a sculpture made of a few columns.
Until I pointed out the Statue of Liberty face in Image 12, he suggested that Image as referring to Windsor for the following reasons:
1. Orthodox church and the Ukrainian population in Windsor.
2. long rectangular column image (not a high door)
3. water: tunnel goes under water
4. squared sections are the tiles along the tunnel
5. the bird represents a dove, which represents the International Peace Bridge.
–Johann

Question for Burnstyle:
On the most recent podcast you mentioned your recent visit to Cleveland and that the counting of the bricks being opposite/backwards was not a mistake or bad puzzle-making, but something that we were supposed to figure out – based on the words (names?) on the wall being backwards or reversed. Or an inscription being backwards or in reverse order or something.
Sorry, but I didn’t quite follow what you’re saying you saw there. Would you be able to clarify exactly what inscription you are referring to and how it now leads you to the backwards conclusion? Thanks in advance!

Apelles was also noted for putting his paintings on public display then hiding behind them to hear the thoughts of the viewers as they looked at them…
Don’t know if that means anything I thought I would just throw it out…

Seven steps up you can hop
Might we use “up you can hop” as a suggestion to “spring” as the Centaur up on top of the wall might indicate?
Preiss couldve simple said “seven steps” or “up seven steps”.  He uses the word ‘hop’ and so I wonder if it ties in with springing.

Columns.  Yes, we’ve found them in the Grecian Gardens, but something I’d like to look into is a homophonic similarity between the words “column” and “calumny”.  The reason is that the verse mentions Apelles.  The image also has the date number 1442.  I understand it was used in pulling the lat/long, around that time in 1445, Botticelli the painter was born.  He went on to create The Calumny of Apelles, a very detailed piece which included some minor images of centuars.
Pretending that we don’t yet know the full solution to this puzzle, I’m interested in trying to better understand how to go about solving it.

Verse 4
Beneath two countries
As the road curves
In a rectangular plot
Beneath the tenth stone
From right to left
Beneath the ninth row from the top
Of the wall including small bricks
Seven steps up you can hop
From the bottom level
Socrates, Pindar, Apelles
Free speech, couplet, birch
To find casque’s destination
Seek the columns
For the search.
As I mentioned in the Image 4 thread, I am convinced that this verse goes with that picture, and the treasure is in the Cleveland Cultural Gardens.  Here are pics of the Greek Garden:
http://academic.csuohio.edu/clevelandhistory/culturalgardens/images1.htm
(3rd row from the top, pics 4-6)
http://academic.csuohio.edu/clevelandhistory/culturalgardens/images8.htm
(1st 2 rows, various pics)

Dan Amrich
Tue Dec 16, 2003 10:08 am

“Beneath two countries
As the road curves”
First leap of logic is two towns/cities that share their names with countries.