dietrologia

Sorry if this has been posited before, but since the Lincoln Higway and 34th Ave intersect right in front of the Legion of Honor, think of all the visual images that line up at that spot and how they fit well with Verse 7.
I won’t get into the ones that have already been discussed recently — and there are a lot — but how about this?
“Running north, but first across
In jewel’s direction
Is an object
Of Twain’s attention”
There is a scuplture of Joan of Arc astride a horse galloping (“running”) north. The sculpture is on the left side of the entrance and has been there for many decades. You can see it very plainly in front of you at that spot. Okay, Joan of Arc, so what?
Mark Twain wrote a book about Joan of Arc. You can purchase a copy here:
http://www.amazon.com/Personal-Recollec … oan+of+arc
Here’s what Twain himself said of his book:
I like Joan of Arc best of all my books; and it is the best; I know it perfectly well. And besides, it furnished me seven times the pleasure afforded me by any of the others; twelve years of preparation, and two years of writing. The others needed no preparation and got none. –Mark Twain
I have an email in with the Legion of Honor about the two lions that have stood guard at the entrance since… well, forever. I asked if they had any particular names or titles. Perhaps something that was once covered in a visitor’s brochure, but is no longer common knowledge. If I hear back that they’re called “Education” and “Justice”, or something very similar… wow.
I may drop by this weekend just to take some photos of all that can be seen from that spot.

MF
And….?

Just re-applied for permission to dig at Lincoln park.
I will keep you all posted on the progress.
due to some constraints at the park, I probably won’t be able to dig until January.

maltedfalcon

Just re-applied for permission to dig at Lincoln park.
I will keep you all posted on the progress.
due to some constraints at the park, I probably won’t be able to dig until January.

Good luck. I seem to recall you having dug in this area previously, so I’m glad that park officials are open to this — that’s one less headache.
In my mind, I would want to try in two spots just below the parking lot perimeter:
1) along the line formed by Joan of Arc and Betsy Ross Flagpole
2) in the same northern angle from the Flagpole that Joan of Arc is traveling.
I wish you all the best!

dietrologia

Good luck. I seem to recall you having dug in this area previously, so I’m glad that park officials are open to this — that’s one less headache.
In my mind, I would want to try in two spots just below the parking lot perimeter:
1) along the line formed by Joan of Arc and Betsy Ross Flagpole
2) in the same northern angle from the Flagpole that Joan of Arc is traveling.
I wish you all the best!

with permission, I have actually dug in this are 3 times, and have two more spots to check
in between my digs someone else dug and left a mess, I almost got in trouble for it. It makes it more difficult to get permission and now they are actively watching for diggers. There is a 24 hour guard right next to the area at one of the memorials, and they have instructed him to call in suspicious behavior. before it was just me and the groundskeeper, now it has to be authorized from higher up. it takes a little longer.

I just received a reply from the Legion of Honor. They were not aware of any names given to the two lions out front.

dietrologia

I just received a reply from the Legion of Honor. They were not aware of any names given to the two lions out front.

I checked that a while back
and I also checked on the two statues.
just in case the plaques said something similar.
no luck

maltedfalcon

I checked that a while back
and I also checked on the two statues.
just in case the plaques said something similar.
no luck

Yeah, this is all low-hanging fruit, I guess. Sorry to be treading over old ground.

Choice

Also the painting is not plumb to the page of the book, maybe on purpose. So that it won’t drive me crazy, I rotated the image one degree or so clockwise.
https://imgur.com/bA2Gjt2
Or maybe it wasn’t scanned straight.

Thanks for posting this. It is a much better image than the one in the book. The printing in the book I have is dreadful.

Choice

I think prospector meant you changed your solve to L of H. from GGP.
Next stop, China Beach?

Yes, I once thought Maltfalcon liked Golden Gate Park but I think there is more information being reveled to him at another location.

drunknerds

I went to the flagpole with a friend while visiting SF this summer. He really wasn’t into it, and was just along to hang out.
I told him it was bulldozed and that if it was at the senior center we might find fragments of clay and plexiglass.
We found a ton of plexiglass and fragments of white clay. His mind was blown and now he’s into it.
For the record, I don’t think we found anything. I sent the clay pieces to George who said it didn’t match casques. Also he mentioned finding plexiglass all over the country on his digs, in the podcast. Also none of the fragments had any telltale relief.
It was super fun to see his mind blown, though.
I don’t think anyone’s completely eliminated everywhere on the senior lawn, and it is still my favorite place due to the six image matches I see there. However, I really hope it’s not there because there is zero indication where the “giant step” should be made in relation to the pole. I don’t want to solve puzzles if they have super ambiguous dig spot references like that. Plus it got totally bulldozed and redone, so it’s not going to be retrievable if it ever was there, most likely.

That must have been a kick. I don’t see any reference to the “giant step” at that location either.

maltedfalcon

The upper line is a fold line where the painting was folded
No I do not think the casque was ever moved, Just like I dont think the chicago casque was ever buried at the water tower, or the cleveland casque was ever buried at the transit building.

My gosh the painting was folded? I think the paintings looked like they were redone by a graphic artist when added to the book for publication. I may be wrong but that is just a hunch I have at this point.

Also the painting is not plumb to the page of the book, maybe on purpose. So that it won’t drive me crazy, I rotated the image one degree or so clockwise.
https://imgur.com/bA2Gjt2
Or maybe it wasn’t scanned straight.

The upper line is a fold line where the painting was folded

Hey Maltedfalcon,
Do you mean the line at the top, through the rocks?
How do you know it has been folded?
If you look at the original painting, it’s also there. (see image from the expedition unknown video at 25.45 minutes)
It almost looks like it were two pieces of board/paper put together or something… like JJP started with a rectangular painting and decided he had to fit the moons and door in later or something…
expedition unknown video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T7pyMi9TiX8

Choice

Also the painting is not plumb to the page of the book, maybe on purpose. So that it won’t drive me crazy, I rotated the image one degree or so clockwise.
https://imgur.com/bA2Gjt2
Or maybe it wasn’t scanned straight.

I think it’s scanning, mine is straight…
I do have a difference in the images on the right page being a bit higher on the page than the left, but that’s just an 80s printing/binding thing I think.

I’ve always been wondering about that man in the mountains…
It’s been the first thing that I noticed looking at this picture.
A little while ago I was going over the Cleveland find and thought I’d explore the other cultural gardens a bit more. And realized that the statues there obviously would represent the most ‘logical’ people of those countries to include in a puzzle. So for China that would be Confucius… Ever since I’ve seen the man as Confucius, what do you think ?
“When a wise man points at the moon the idiot looks at the finger.”
― Confucius

I believe that if there are outlines like these of buildings or statues etc. that they should be seen in that perspective from the dig-spot. (unless they are too obviously just referring to a landmark, like the watertower in chicago, or lines in the shape of rivers etc)
If that would be so, do you believe the dig spot should be somewhere near pier 43 in that perspective?
I’ve made an image of the area and the yellow color roughly representing the ‘area of interest’. But doesn’t seem possible to dig anywhere… not even in the 80s, if you see the ’87 google earth image on the left.

He who runs in front of the bus gets “tired”, and the one who runs after it gets “exhausted”.
I do like the resemblance a lot, however it looks like the bow on his sash (or his hands) form a lotus that’s commonly associated with Buddha.
Or it may be a lion or foo dog paw, similar to the ones at the Dragon’s Gate. Notice one of the nails is broken. Is there a statue with damaged toe?

Just trying to make sense of the Image 1 clues and post what I observe or connect. It’s relevance or intent is for you to decide.
If I may make another observation: If one considers the barred gate being Alcatraz, then it’s position to the Ferry Arch is near perfect mirror. Perhaps we should mirror the whole thing?
Also if I understand it right, JP was given a stack of Polaroids and maps and free rein to paint an image. How does one come to the conclusion that the angle of landmarks must be the POV of the dig site?

Just want to let people know there is a 1982 first edition Secret book for sale for $500 on Amazon.

$470 too much for my budget!

Not too excited about the lamp post matching the pedestal…sure, it is kind of similar but….  Now, as for the strange windows on the blue building…..that is nice
, there are, however, 2 rows of blocks on her sleeve but 3 rows of blocks on the window.
falcon, where exactly is this exact match for the window?  Would love to see it.  What was the other site confirmer you can see?  Are we finally getting close to unearthing another casque………I sure hope so.  How about a little inspirational digging music?

Hi everyone. I just discovered The Secret yesterday. Living in San Francisco, I’ve been fixated on Image 1, and I’m finally caught up with this massive thread.
As could be expected, every idea I had has already been covered here, except for two:
1) I see that the thinking here has moved away from Golden Gate Park, but has anyone looked at the windows of the Sharon Building, located at the east end of the park, in connection with the barred window in Image 1?
http://ww2.hdnux.com/photos/07/56/11/2024037/11/628×471.jpg
2) Again in GGP, and pairing with Verse 7, “object of Twain’s attention” makes me think of the boat rental area at Stowe Lake. There’s currently a large raft there, where paddle boats are moored. Was this there in the early 80s?
I live very close to the park, so will probably spend more time walking around the east end this weekend.

Halcon

Hello Everyone.
Here follows the rambling thoughts
of
a Senior Citizen based 5,239 miles away in Derbyshire, England.
All the images shown in the book The Secret ( A Treasure Hunt ) are Gestaits.
Image one is a typical gestalt with an Anthropomorphic Landscape, which obviously accounts for the many Pareidolia moments encountered by all intrepid Treasure Seekers.
So when Apophenia sets in the mind becomes anarchic and turbid.
Sagacity is called for. Without lucidity, all images become fatuous and nugatory.
I
have read through most
of
the posts on this Forum, and had a few smiles and chuckles along the way. Anus Corn hole is head and shoulders in the lead for laugh out loud moments ( only Joshing! ) xx
My deepest respect to ALL the contributors on this site for their thoughts and proposals for the San Francisco Casque ( Cask ) burial location. Fantastic work everyone.
But, It’s not turned up yet!

I
quote the great philosopher Roy Munson when
I
say,
“You would be punctilious in assuming that.”

Halcon

Hello Everyone.
Here follows the rambling thoughts of a Senior Citizen based 5,239 miles away in Derbyshire, England.
All the images shown in the book The Secret ( A Treasure Hunt ) are Gestaits.
Image one is a typical gestalt with an Anthropomorphic Landscape, which obviously accounts for the many Pareidolia moments encountered by all intrepid Treasure Seekers.
So when Apophenia sets in the mind becomes anarchic and turbid.
Sagacity is called for. Without lucidity, all images become fatuous and nugatory.
I have read through most of the posts on this Forum, and had a few smiles and chuckles along the way. Anus Corn hole is head and shoulders in the lead for laugh out loud moments ( only Joshing! ) xx
My deepest respect to ALL the contributors on this site for their thoughts and proposals for the San Francisco Casque ( Cask ) burial location. Fantastic work everyone.
But, It’s not turned up yet!

I quote the great philosopher Roy Munson when I say,
“You would be punctilious in assuming that.”

Back to fedral gummint paid fo skool get me sum edumacation
Word
of
the day still a thing?

Back to fedral gummint paid fo skool get me sum edumacation
Word of the day still a thing?

When first introduced to this quest, ( May 2018 ) and once we had a basic understanding of how to read and interpret the clues we looked at several verses but only One Image, which just shouts “San Francisco”…..Image One.
Our first solution and the only one that seems totally plausible, ( in our most humble opinion) centres around The Maritime Museum area. All the clues depicted in Image One and verse 7, seem to come together and make some sort of sense.
Then along comes Dorian and his wife and then BBI with the most graphic and eloquent explanation of their solves, which in the main follows our thoughts, but with a little more detail and panache. Well done you two/ three, excellent job!

Goldengate

… would it not stand to reason that he’d likewise assure the “X” you believe marks the treasure spot in Image One would be legible?
… are you suggesting there are easter eggs within the easter eggs?
Anyway, I’ll get my boot ready for cooking in the event someone is hiking up to Coit to dig up your solution

On the contrary, he would’ve made sure X wouldn’t be so obviously visible and easily discovered or there wouldn’t be a puzzle. Only after your clues point to the general area then you may notice it by looking closely.
Egg within egg? Like the Russian nesting dolls?! Yes! But more like little messages in some obscure corners. Like fortune cookie?
I’ll bring Tabasco sauce.

Goldengate

Nope, that’s not Josh Cornell-Hole.
Tip of the hat to Goonie for capturing this rare shot of Josh in the wild as he “crushed” the San Francisco puzzle back in February.
Lookit the fuzzy little guy! He’s so excited that he solved the whole puzzle in just a couple weeks and all his trolling was about to pay off!
I wonder how that dig turned out for him…

Thanks for the laugh I needed that today!!!

wow haha. cant even see the guys replies and he’s STILL trolling me (and im somehow trolling…right…)…if only goldengate was as obsessed with the treasure hunt as he is me, then maybe he’d actually make progress…lol…

Goldengate

There a wide gulf between something not “obviously visible” and the hard reality that the image you’re referencing is half the size of an “E” on a dime and looks different from scan to scan.
Anyway… while I don’t agree with your theory, I sincerely respect the work you’re putting in — it’s honest and thought out. We just approach the puzzle with different philosophies and will have to agree to disagree.
We do agree on one thing: Tabasco pairs wonderfully with boot.

I have to agree with GG here. At first I was zooming and seeing things that may have been hidden in the larger paintings. Then I picked up a copy of the reprint in Barnes & Noble and it really is a small book. I think it would have difficult to spot extremely small features when the book came out.
Also, I believe that JJP claimed that some of the Images were supposed to have special features that just didn’t pan out when the book went to print.

Well, i do appreciate you and a good constructive criticism. Linda S of wiki, most of us rejects from that forum know her well, is a great source of historical information. She has access to all kinds of city plans and most importantly dates of renovations. She’s planning a visit to Coit late October. Maybe she can inspect the area for clues. Meanwhile here’s a replacement plaque that may satisfy some connection to Mark Twain.

Goldengate

I obviously fall into the “simple solution” camp — that while these puzzles are incredibly tough, the answers are staring us in the face…. just like they were in Chicago and Cleveland…

It is simple and staring us in the face. 3 points:
1. Dragon is Lombard st.
2. It’s nose (top of the windy hill) is Hyde st.
3. That makes it’s end of the tail Pioneer park.
No convoluted Google earth video needed.

If you accept the Verse 10 then it even tells you how many steps to take from where Columbus’ right hand points to the narrow walkway.

Mark Twain had a famous quote about Columbus…..Something about 2 skulls in Havana.

I think if I found the google map in the painting you would still have doubt.

I’m sure you’ve seen the dragon dance during chinese new year. It’s all about twisting and turning. Perfectly describes Lombard. It shouldn’t look like Lombard street’s map to represent it.

Oookay, Lombard is a one way street and on the bottom of it is a do not enter sign like the 2 half circles.

Vermont St, between 20th St & 22nd St. It’s just as curvy as Lombard.

Choice

I think if I found the google map in the painting you would still have doubt.

someone on fb posted the block pattern of a whole area being portrayed in the squares of part of the dragon…very convincingly too…

Scrappy929

Vermont St, between 20th St & 22nd St. It’s just as curvy as Lombard.

Is it a famous iconic landmark?
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0276205d-e … 2ac076e1b9

Choice

Is it a famous iconic landmark?
https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/0276205d-e … 2ac076e1b9

Dude, you are such a joke. Your problem is you don’t get that you don’t get it. We can’t help the helpless.
The dragon is Lombard Street because it is crooked… That was your point. Vermont St is crooked too dumbass!
You saying Lombard street is an iconic landmark? I forgot we needed two in each image. I guess Lombard is also in the middle of GGP according to you. Hey look, there is an arch in a building on Alcatraz! That must be a match to our image. OMG you are so clueless. And with the “X”… smh
Again, showing your age…

catherwood

I think this is a case of “jesus on a tortilla”. Sorry.

https://youtu.be/BJjv9A0oNQg

Goldengate

I get Lombard as a possible city indicator and I get how if you go really far all the way down the street you can get to Coit… I get all that. And I dig the not enter signs as that symbol.
I really get and respect everything you’re saying… and honestly you’ve constructed one of the better Coit theories I’ve read.
Just saying maybe something nearly the size of a pin head is perhaps not a concrete visual indicator of the dig spot.

If the X was the only thing I had to go with I wouldn’t have even bothered posting.
It’s the counter-clockwise running clock on her robe.
It’s the end of Lombard st loop.
It’s the sundial noon pointer.
If you dig verse 10 and the grey giant then you have whole bunch of more clues’
Like the Columbus hand pointing to the pathway.
North to isle of B (Belvedere?)

Goldengate

I get Lombard as a possible city indicator and I get how if you go really far all the way down the street you can get to Coit… I get all that. And I dig the not enter signs as that symbol.
I really get and respect everything you’re saying… and honestly you’ve constructed one of the better Coit theories I’ve read.
Just saying maybe something nearly the size of a pin head is perhaps not a concrete visual indicator of the dig spot.

If the X was the only thing I had to go with I wouldn’t have even bothered posting.
It’s the
counter
–
clockwise
running
clock on her robe.
It’s the end of Lombard st loop.
It’s the sundial noon pointer.
If you dig verse 10 and the grey giant then you have whole bunch of more clues’
Like the Columbus hand pointing to the pathway.
North to isle of B (Belvedere?)

Expected more contribution EZ

Choice

If the X was the only thing I had to go with I wouldn’t have even bothered posting.
It’s the counter-clockwise running clock on her robe.
It’s the end of Lombard st loop.
It’s the sundial noon pointer.
If you dig verse 10 and the grey giant then you have whole bunch of more clues’
Like the Columbus hand pointing to the pathway.
North to isle of B (Belvedere?)

I think at a certain point, especially here where everyone is a skeptic, you just have to go dig. Prove to yourself right or wrong. If you can’t dig, you have to either find someone willing or just post a theory and let it percolate.

Choice

If the X was the only thing I had to go with I wouldn’t have even bothered posting.
It’s the
counter
–
clockwise
running
clock on her robe.
It’s the end of Lombard st loop.
It’s the sundial noon pointer.
If you dig verse 10 and the grey giant then you have whole bunch of more clues’
Like the Columbus hand pointing to the pathway.
North to isle of B (Belvedere?)

I think at a certain point, especially here where everyone is a skeptic, you just have to go dig. Prove to yourself right or wrong. If you can’t dig, you have to either find someone willing or just post a theory and let it percolate.

“Scrappy929”

Dude! Take your Prozac already.
Menopausal men, they are the worst. Old crank!

gManTexas

I think at a certain point, especially here where everyone is a skeptic, you just have to go dig. Prove to yourself right or wrong. If you can’t dig, you have to either find someone willing or just post a theory and let it percolate.

In total agreement Tex. Just trying to contribute. Use the info as you many.

Not a big fan of Facebook. Never signed-up probably never will.

Choice

Expected more contribution EZ

Choice

are
Dude! Take your Prozac already.
Menopausal men, they the worst. Old crank!

Lighten up….

I used to have a fake one a year or 2 ago (never had a real one) then they started to confirm accounts with phone number… I’m out.

I like some of the filtered versions of the paintings. I dont think its required, though any help to our tired out eye muscles is welcomed.

Images below are directly from the book and not a copy of a copy of a copy…
Using color filters to aid in seeing certain things more clearly, I found 2 possible clues below.
The number 13 seen just to the right and below the barred window in the image.
Inverted the image and viewed using inverted grey scale. Noticed our Roman numeral VI may not be a Roman numeral. Notice the left side of the “V” doesn’t seem to be there. That left side of the “V” definitely doesn’t have the same bold strokes. The bold look of the number 71 becomes very prominent.
It seems to me that something is written directly above and below our barred window. Haven’t quite been able to confirm though. Just looks as though there is since those marks stand out.

Scrappy929

Images below are directly from the book and not a copy of a copy of a copy…

It is a copy. A copy of a digital picture is the same no matter how many times you copied unlike analog photo-copy.
The fact that you are altering it by digital filter means you are again subject to app interpretation.
Use a 5X magnifying glass.

Choice

It is a copy. A copy of a digital picture is the same no matter how many times you copied unlike analog photo-copy.
The fact that you are altering it by digital filter means you are again subject to app interpretation.
Use a 5X magnifying glass.

Here we go… Always has to be one. Ok… You are way off and missed the point completely. Point was that I used the image DIRECTLY from the book not a copy of a copy of a copy; digital or otherwise. It is NOT a copy of a digital picture. It IS a DIRECT digital copy from the book. I don’t think I needed you to explain that to me nor did I ask you to. Your comment is assuming I have no clue what a copy is… Really!? The fact that this was the only thing you had to say is yet just another example of the useless comments that clog up these threads. The whole world could have went without that useless comment. Pretty sure 99.9% of the general population would have understood what I said without having to chime in.
Magnifying glass… smh. Where did I say I zoomed in?
Color… Filter…
You use your methods, i’ll use mine.
Please refrain from further useless comments and actually write something useful that progresses this puzzle. Thank you.

You’re seeing ghosts. Call the ghost whisperer. Hostile SOB!

Goldengate

re: filters and photoshop, etc…
Just remember: Small book. 1982.
I’m not saying the ability to zoom on a 2018 high res retina screen won’t help, but the Chicago guys found the casque without any of that and I don’t think the Cleveland fellas needed any of that either — the needed clues were able to be seen by the naked eye, though I’m sure many in 82 poured over the pages with a magnifying glass!
Anyway, food for thought.

You are correct and I agree with you on those points. However, these puzzles were not created equally. Photoshop / color filters are just another tool to aid in trying to solve the puzzles just as we use social media, the internet, & GPR. We should use all tools available to aid in solving these. It is not the tools that may cause problems, but HOW they are used and interpreted. Some may use them and some might not. Comes down to personal choice. After 36 years and only 2 having been solved, I would say something new has to be tried, whatever that may be.
“If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.” Henry Ford

Choice

You’re seeing ghosts. Call the ghost whisperer. Hostile SOB!

Far from hostile. Again… you are clueless to word interpretation. It’s the voices in your head that are yelling. Ghost whisperer… SoB… Nice comeback! Lmao! Thank you for proving my point! And I’m the hostile one. Ok… Maybe use your magnifying glass to help you better see the words, or better yet… actually find a useful clue… literally and figuratively.

Refrain from further useless comments and actually write something useful that progresses this puzzle. Reptilian brain

Durian

Another good image match, but which do you think is better?

I’ve tried to use the second one for that match. The top one I matched to the Wharf area.

Choice

Refrain from further useless comments and actually write something useful that progresses this puzzle. Reptilian brain

Name calling… must be a child. Not educated enough to engage in adult conversations with any sort of intelligence.

Not name calling but behavioral observations. Didn’t need magnifying glass for them.

I see resemblances between the rock/gate and the burnt down buildings in Alcatraz.

IMO Pioneer has the following characteristics:
• It matches Giant pole clue
• It satisfies counter-clockwise running clock (flow of the traffic)
• The whole area can act as a giant sundial
• The location works with both #7 and #10 verses
• Matches In the shadow Of the grey giant
• In the Image 1 the dig location is marked with an outlined 3D X.
• Missing: Flashing neon light

Scrappy929

Images below are directly from the book and not a copy of a copy of a copy…
Using color filters to aid in seeing certain things more clearly, I found 2 possible clues below.
The number 13 seen just to the right and below the barred window in the image.
Inverted the image and viewed using inverted grey scale. Noticed our Roman numeral VI may not be a Roman numeral. Notice the left side of the “V” doesn’t seem to be there. That left side of the “V” definitely doesn’t have the same bold strokes. The bold look of the number 71 becomes very prominent.
It seems to me that something is written directly above and below our barred window. Haven’t quite been able to confirm though. Just looks as though there is since those marks stand out.

Hey Scrappy,
Has anyone commented that the stone window/wall sits on a cement pedestal. Not unlike the seaman’s monument at the LOH?

Rviewer1

Hey Scrappy,
Has anyone commented that the stone window/wall sits on a cement pedestal. Not unlike the seaman’s monument at the LOH?

I am not sure. Are you referring to just the barred window or the structure in which it is mounted that is sitting on a pedestal?
I just noticed that the top horizontal bar in the barred window is shown in front of the vertical bars while the lower horizontal bar is shown behind the vertical bars.

Scrappy929

I am not sure. Are you referring to just the barred window or the structure in which it is mounted that is sitting on a pedestal?
I just noticed that the top horizontal bar in the barred window is shown in front of the vertical bars while the lower horizontal bar is shown behind the vertical bars.

Yes I see what you mean about the lower horizontal bar being behind the vertical bars.
I was talking about the pedestal. It reminds me of two objects. The first is a cement sundial and the second is an upside down seaman’s monument, although I think the seaman’s monument is a stretch. Has anyone determined what that pedestal maybe?

JoshCornell

what s? like the middle section?
i have explanations for both if so

Yes, exactly…the large #6 and the large “S” in the snake body.? I am curious as to members’ thoughts on these two clues.

I can even see the slanted X in your out of focus picture. I can’t explain why you can’t.
I have 2 different photos of the original book, one uploaded to this forum recently. None from me.
Here are the two segments. Both clearly show the slanted X, one better than other.

I have no interest in probing and digging. I’m here to share my findings and not seeking notoriety.
Location is not based on the X on the map alone. Clues point one to the location. Noon on the sundial is one.

Choice

I can even see the slanted X in your out of focus picture. I can’t explain why you can’t.
I have 2 different photos of the original book, one uploaded to this forum recently. None from me.
Here are the two segments. Both clearly show the slanted X, one better than other. {img}

I also do not see any X in these images. At most I see some waves. I think this is a case of “jesus on a tortilla” or “that face on the closet door” where once you see the illusion of a face in a random texture, you can no longer unsee it or be convinced that it really wasn’t there to begin with. Sorry.

Sorry about the peppering. Not my intent. My last post about this.

Sorry about the peppering. Not my intent. My last post about this.
look more like the symbol for pi…

maltedfalcon

or Chinese six
六
Liù

I think Josh is already there… Is that him?!

Goldengate

All in the size of half the “E” of the word “Liberty” on a dime.

It’s also conceivable that a few “easter eggs” were intentionally inserted to keep it fun. Afterall the original painting is much larger than the print.

maltedfalcon

look more like the symbol for pi…

or Chinese six 六 Liù
Also Japanese six 六 , roku

Durian

Maybe we will find God? Or Preiss?

All you’ll find is bad sarcasm

Durian

Giant pole… check
Giant step… check
To the place
The casque is kept… ? ? ?
How does this not qualify as a potential dig site?
I’ll let you know what evidence—if any—I find on site, but to say there is no probable dig site is IMO ridiculous. The rock is even faceted more or less properly by the artist, with the plaque side shown facing the proper angle, and facing a different direction than the side facing you from this view. And most of those “random similar shapes” I’ve been identifying as potential site confirmers can be found on that rock and in that museum in the photo above.
Agree to disagree, but that’s my final two cents on the matter until I have more data.

Most of the people here are open to new ideas and different ways of looking at things. You could be onto something or not.
Keep this in mind: most of the puzzles have very vague instructions as to the casque location. I believe SF is one of them. This translates into probing a large area repeatedly and digging probably more than one hole. The casque can be up to 3.5 feet down in the ground. Even in 1982 this would be a tough task in a high traffic area, but today even more so. The guys in Chicago dug multiple times. The guys in Cleveland dug for 8-9 hours straight. At best you will probably have to probe and dig for several hours.
If you cannot get permission, you will be noticed in that area and probably told to stop by the police or other authorities. Not to mention that there are certainly web and traffic cams recording your activities.
I think you should go there and scope it out. See for yourself if it seems correct. Being on-site and better yet, digging really puts things in perspective.

I wanna believe @Durian. The truth is out there.

People, the book is rather small. Yes, the original paintings were large, but they were obviously shrunk down in order to print the book. In 1982 what did we have for tools? Photocopiers, overhead projectors, film to take a photo of the image then blow it up, magnifying glasses.
What some of you are missing is that there were editors, writers, printers and BP all checking this thing before it was published. They all seemed to be comfortable with the content and scale of the images. I also do not believe that scaling the image on a computer screen is necessary to solve the puzzle. The image is intended to assist in getting you to the proper location. The verse is what gives you the dig instructions.

Durian

Awesome, So will I!!!

Cool! Which day?
Sat morning, Good luck!

Agreed, the print is very small and we shouldn’t be over zooming sections to which wouldn’t have been possible back in the day. However, just under half of that image is made up of these mountain/rocky outcrops with quite a few of them outlined in the blue. So there must be more to it than just filling in dead space or by it simply stating its on the coast. Why, I even see an old guy sitting down with a walking stick with a robe on?!! and its one of those things that once you see it you can’t unsee it.
Anyway, I see why Durian is pursuing this area of trying to match something in this landscape to an area or a place at the Aquatic Park and I think its a great effort in either proving it or disproving it by exhausting all options. You really can’t beat boots on the ground and I’m sure once Durian has visited the Park at the weekend he’ll come away either satisfied at what he sees or just scratching that part of the theory of his list.

gManTexas

I think the feature you are pointing to looks like a bunny face, as in Bunny Meadow in GGP. Especially when we do not zoom in to 300X magnification.

What is all this 300X magnification about? Most magnification I see here is no more than 5X which is a typical magnifying glass.
Here’s a sample of 5X:

Choice

What is all this 300X magnification about? Most magnification I see here is no more than 5X which is a typical magnifying glass.
Here’s a sample of 5X:

Y’all are free to believe whatever you want. If you post it here, you should expect to receive some thoughts and probably criticism (sometimes constructive). The real task is to go dig up a casque. That is the ultimate proof.

Durian

It’s been brought to my attention that the “C” and “S” I identified are typographical anomalies from Photoshop work done to enhance a scan I’ve been working off of. Good for finding images, not so great for adding letter forms that aren’t there.
So I recant that part of my theory. Feel free to continue to burn me at the stake for the rest of it, however.

I wish someone that owns a copy of the original book could do a grid photography of the image with 4X optical magnification. Grid of 3X4 or 4X5.
Scanning corrupts the image.

how about using the microscope to look into those specific grid or sections? That’s how you truly understand what’s “in” the image.

It doesn’t seem like “precision” was a real concern when this puzzle was thrown together….but thanks for droppin that knowledge.

fine, that map on his wall is a scale 1000 ft to 1 inch topography map of the Manhattan borough, showing the island’s springs, brooks, creeks, and swamps, where land meets landfill, tracing former shorelines and hilltops. Mostly used by structural engineers. AKA Water Maps.

I have no doubt the map on the wall is precise – it’s the painted image i’m concerned with – I don’t think the precision was transferred over.

MERLIN

It doesn’t seem like “precision” was a real concern when this puzzle was thrown together….

correct, that’s if BP is still alive today to help us. But now he’s gone, “precision” should be taken very seriously to not just finding these casques, but also learn and studies the wisdom from all of this puzzle.

MERLIN

I have no doubt the map on the wall is precise – it’s the painted image i’m concerned with – I don’t think the precision was transferred over.

again, I’m not saying that’s the MAP he used for these painting!!!
BUT IT CAN BE USED AS A REFERENCE SO YOU KNOW THE KIND OF MATERIAL IN HIS STUDIO ARE VERY PROFESSIONAL AND FOR US TO THINK HE WILL USED SOME NON-OFFICIAL MAPS FROM MUNI TO PROJECT THESE PAINTINGS IS VERY UNLIKELY.
are we good?

Spiritr

again, I’m not saying that’s the MAP he used for these painting!!!
BUT IT CAN BE USED AS A REFERENCE SO YOU KNOW THE KIND OF MATERIAL IN HIS STUDIO ARE VERY PROFESSIONAL AND FOR US TO THINK HE WILL USED SOME NON-OFFICIAL MAPS FROM MUNI TO PROJECT THESE PAINTINGS IS VERY UNLIKELY.
are we good?

I think what we need to think about is what type of map the general public may have been expected to use in 1982 to solve these puzzles….and not be too quick to dismiss newly introduced maps.

MrBackstop

I have the Balclutha as High posts are three. The ship was docked right there at Pier 41 until it was moved where it is today.
The other important part of my solve being in Aquatic Park is the Belt Railroad. The Belt ran from the Presidio under Fort Mason and along Jefferson Street to a major loading and unloading point Pier 43 and down the San Francisco coastline. It moved supplies, soldiers, immigrants and Alcatraz prisoners.
The Belt railroad is represented by her folded arms which point to the 4th line on one cuff and the 3rd line on the other cuff. So if you use this starting point and move down toward Twain’s attention (Paddle Wheel on Hyde Street Pier) you will end up at the Park boundary of Hyde Street.
If you also notice the big number “6” and large Letter “S” on the dragon/snakes body, I see those meaning “6 Steps” (just like the 5 steps in Boston are city blocks). Six blocks from Pier 43 to the West is Hyde Street and the Park.

What I see in the image as the 4 and 3 are, her finger points to the bottom of the 4th block and her other finger touches the 3rd block and 1/2, 43 1/2. 43 1/2 pier is where you can take tours of the bay and Alcatraz, (Educational tours) The home of the Red and White Fleet. You can also use the blocks as 4 & 3 for 43. Right next to 43 1/2 is the historical Ferry Arch # 43, if you notice her arms the top arm arches over the bottom one , the woman or dragon is the Fair Folk or Fairy…giving the play on words Ferry ( woman/dragon) Arch (arms) 43 fingers. Seems like her fingers and arms are giving multiple clues.
famous poems honesty

That’s a nice map I’ve never seen. And I like your thoughts on the 43 1/2 as well. And I agree, her fingers and arms give all kinds of clues.
I know that most people in GG Park think the crossed arms mean Crossover Drive but I really like this as the Belt Railroad. The Belt was still running up until the early 90s and much of the track is still in the ground today.

Durian

I thought you were looking in GGP? Welcome to the dark side!

I am perusing a theory that starts at Ghirardelli and moves east.

Durian, how do you explain backward Gh? You would think that it’s telling you the location is on the south side
of
the Ghirardelli sign. And because only the 1st couple
of
letters are visible the location must be a good distance to the east.

Durian, how do you explain backward Gh? You would think that it’s telling you the location is on the south side of the Ghirardelli sign. And because only the 1st couple of letters are visible the location must be a good distance to the east.

Choice

Again noone wants to touch the fact that there was a Japanese translation of smells sweet.

At stone wall’s door
The air smells sweet
The start of the Verse refers to Pier 43 (stone wall’s door). The arch of Pier 43 is the door as well as the inspiration for the arched top of Image 1’s design.
The air smells sweet refers to the sweet smell of Freedom. Pier 43 is where the immigrants came after being processed at Angel Island and would enter San Francisco. Pier 43 is also where the prisons for Alcatraz would travel. Once they served their sentence they would be brought to Pier 43 where they would enjoy the sweet smell of Freedom once again.

MrBackstop

At stone wall’s door
The air smells sweet
The start of the Verse refers to Pier 43 (stone wall’s door). The arch of Pier 43 is the door as well as the inspiration for the arched top of Image 1’s design.
The air smells sweet refers to the sweet smell of Freedom. Pier 43 is where the immigrants came after being processed at Angel Island and would enter San Francisco. Pier 43 is also where the prisons for Alcatraz would travel. Once they served their sentence they would be brought to Pier 43 where they would enjoy the sweet smell of Freedom once again.

If you are using a metaphor yes this works as well, this same method can be used for Ghirardelli IMO, Domingo Ghirardelli was the most successful chocolatier in San Francisco, which also could be the sweet success of his business. Plus you actually have the smell of chocolate in the air, so seems to me like a reinforced clue.

what part
of
the puzzle is the zoom from with your circle and star on it? your fish is a seal lol.

what part of the puzzle is the zoom from with your circle and star on it? your fish is a seal lol.

They haven’t been making chocolate there since the 60’s. They are made in San Leandro. Is there any sweet smell still all the way back there from their store in the front?
Also sign not visible there.

JoshCornell

what part
of
the puzzle is the zoom from with your circle and star on it? your fish is a seal lol.

Just under iron gate to the left

JoshCornell

what part of the puzzle is the zoom from with your circle and star on it? your fish is a seal lol.

Just under iron gate to the left

Choice

They haven’t been making chocolate there since the 60’s. They are made in San Leandro. Is there any sweet smell still all the way back there from their store in the front?
Also sign not visible there.

Without a doubt it smells sweet.
I
stood on the side walk in front
of
the main door and you could smell the sweet amorma
of
chocolate from there. There is no doubt this is the fist line in the verse IMO

Choice

They haven’t been making chocolate there since the 60’s. They are made in San Leandro. Is there any sweet smell still all the way back there from their store in the front?
Also sign not visible there.

Without a doubt it smells sweet. I stood on the side walk in front of the main door and you could smell the sweet amorma of chocolate from there. There is no doubt this is the fist line in the verse IMO

Didn’t the author explain that the smell sweet was a metaphor in the Japanese interview?

Goonie68

Without a doubt it smells sweet.
I
stood on the side walk in front
of
the main door and you could smell the sweet amorma
of
chocolate from there. There is no doubt this is the fist line in the verse IMO

Main door? The arched door in the back or front entrance to the store?

Goonie68

Without a doubt it smells sweet. I stood on the side walk in front of the main door and you could smell the sweet amorma of chocolate from there. There is no doubt this is the fist line in the verse IMO

Main door? The arched door in the back or front entrance to the store?

Choice

They haven’t been making chocolate there since the 60’s. They are made in San Leandro. Is there any sweet smell still all the way back there from their store in the front?
Also sign not visible there.

They make a small amount
of
melted chocolate for there Sundays in the main part
of
the ice cream restaurant area, you can watch the chocolate being turned and melted, they have been doing this for decades.

Choice

They haven’t been making chocolate there since the 60’s. They are made in San Leandro. Is there any sweet smell still all the way back there from their store in the front?
Also sign not visible there.

They make a small amount of melted chocolate for there Sundays in the main part of the ice cream restaurant area, you can watch the chocolate being turned and melted, they have been doing this for decades.

So are we off the Japanese translation
of
the interview now?!
He explained that the sweet smell was a metaphor for sweet song or love or some nonsense!

So are we off the Japanese translation of the interview now?!
He explained that the sweet smell was a metaphor for sweet song or love or some nonsense!

Main door? The arched door in the back or front entrance to the store?
hope is the thing with feathers poem meaning

Durian

And at the street corner, you have a beautiful view
of
Alcatraz, with it’s smokestack, water tower, and lighthouse—the three high posts. You also have a view
of
Angel Island (Education, the whole point is immigration for Preiss) and capital “J” Justice, Alcatraz. All four are represented by the USGS symbols near the “Gh” in the dress. The triangle represents the peak
of
Mt. Livermore on Angel Island. The blue circle represents the water tower. The two squares are catch-alls for surveyors, denoting special landmarks otherwise without a set symbol—in this case used for the smokestack and lighthouse.

I
can see your point
of
view ,but for me the verse takes direction further down the pier to the intersection
of
Embarcadaro and Jefferson.

Durian

And at the street corner, you have a beautiful view of Alcatraz, with it’s smokestack, water tower, and lighthouse—the three high posts. You also have a view of Angel Island (Education, the whole point is immigration for Preiss) and capital “J” Justice, Alcatraz. All four are represented by the USGS symbols near the “Gh” in the dress. The triangle represents the peak of Mt. Livermore on Angel Island. The blue circle represents the water tower. The two squares are catch-alls for surveyors, denoting special landmarks otherwise without a set symbol—in this case used for the smokestack and lighthouse.

I can see your point of view ,but for me the verse takes direction further down the pier to the intersection of Embarcadaro and Jefferson.

MrBackstop

At stone wall’s door
The air smells sweet
The start of the Verse refers to Pier 43 (stone wall’s door). The arch of Pier 43 is the door as well as the inspiration for the arched top of Image 1’s design.
The air smells sweet refers to the sweet smell of Freedom. Pier 43 is where the immigrants came after being processed at Angel Island and would enter San Francisco. Pier 43 is also where the prisons for Alcatraz would travel. Once they served their sentence they would be brought to Pier 43 where they would enjoy the sweet smell of Freedom once again.

Using Pier 43 instead of Ghirardelli wouldn’t change much either way.

Blue circle?

Durian

Just for fun, let’s remember the burial sight is most likely shown pretty much as it is in real life somewhere in the puzzle. And remember what was represented in Chicago and Cleveland physically took up several feet of space in the real world, similar to the San Carlos rock/plaque. If this is the spot, look at the similarities—near the middle of the puzzle, no blue glow:
And if you look at the SF puzzle, there are a limited number of spots in the painting that can be
the spot
.

Can you show how this logic works in Image 12?

Choice

Just under iron gate to the left

gotta be praying dude (still as yet unidentified)

Goonie68

They make a small amount
of
melted chocolate for there Sundays in the main part
of
the ice cream restaurant area, you can watch the chocolate being turned and melted, they have been doing this for decades.

i
saw this. can vouch.

Goonie68

They make a small amount of melted chocolate for there Sundays in the main part of the ice cream restaurant area, you can watch the chocolate being turned and melted, they have been doing this for decades.

i saw this. can vouch.

Again noone wants to touch the fact that there was a Japanese translation
of
smells sweet.

Again noone wants to touch the fact that there was a Japanese translation of smells sweet.

This is the reason you can smell the chocolate it’s in the pallor
10 line poems about life

Choice

Again noone wants to touch the fact that there was a Japanese translation of smells sweet.

The question is why would you need a metaphor when you actually have a place where the air smells sweet.

So the puzzle works only sundays Goonie?

Goonie68

The question is why would you need a metaphor when you actually have a place where the air smells sweet.

I guess you know better than the author

Choice

So the puzzle works only sundays Goonie?

Well at that door it’s everyday of the week

By the way the platform the pearl sits on is hexagonal.

Fenix

I’ve been a fan of this interpretation as well. Slightly less obvious and makes sense with the Japanese hint IMO. That said, as Goonie68 mentions, there are other ideas that fit well.
If either this or Gh are correct, when coupled with 3 wooden posts in the same general area there only seem to be a few options. The E&J Japanese hint may be the real way to move this forward.

I guess it all depends on the direction one is using for the verse and location. The area supports both directions, from the next line in the verse ” Not far away high posts are three” Ships or Fisherman’s Warf sign….?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=65&v=ENrmULWKbeM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SC73kdOL5hk

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xat1GVnl8-k

U suck merlin!! We are doing serious SF love song investigation here!!

Choice

U suck merlin!! We are doing serious SF love song investigation here!!

My bad.

You’d think GG bridge would be the most obvious door/success of sea journey

Goldengate

I don’t dispute that Pier 43 was one of several prisoner pick up / drop off areas around San Francisco, BUT was that information reasonably available for tourists — or even residents IN 1982? My family owned (still owns) a restaurant right on Fisherman’s Wharf — I worked the place as a kid/teen/young adult in the 80s and 90s, even hauling in catches on the boat, and never heard that story. Again, I know it’s true, but how REASONABLY ACCESSIBLE was that specific information in 82?
I believe that’s something really important to prove… was there a plaque, guidebook or one of those goofy illustrated maps of the area that imparted that information — ANYTHING at all BP could have used that likewise a key searcher would have had reasonable access to in 1982?
Chicago and Cleveland didn’t require extensive historical research to find the casques. I think finding contemporary (to 1982) maps, guidebooks, photos, etc is vital — and to that, modern resources needed to find those items are a godsend. But granular local trivia that may not have been available at the time just doesn’t seem to fit methods needed to solve this paperback treasure hunt.
There’s a lot to like about the wharf area but for other reasons — just trying to be realistic in how clues were reasonably meant be interpreted. And who knows, if it is in the Wharf area, it could be one of those Man and Beast / Mozart and Beethoven things were it didn’t really matter — each got the key searcher to the right place.
Either way, best of luck to everyone working so hard to run down clues to this area!

One thing that the Japanese edition of the book did for me is to question how complex or simple these puzzles are intended to be. If the hunt was open to people that may not even visit the casque cities, the clues would have to be well known or stuff easily found in an encyclopedia or similar.

It’s called summer vacation!

Goldengate

I think finding contemporary (to 1982) maps, guidebooks, photos, etc is vital — and to that, modern resources needed to find those items are a godsend.

Found a nice 1982 SF Map, has some nice detail. Even states when the Cable Car system will be closed.
https://imgur.com/fdeFljF

bbi

Found a nice 1982 SF Map, has some nice detail. Even states when the Cable Car system will be closed.
https://imgur.com/fdeFljF

That’s awesome. Do you have a higher resolution image?

Unknown

Unknown:
Using Pier 43 instead of Ghirardelli wouldn’t change much either way.

Not trying to change anything, just giving Choice a metaphorical sweet smell (Freedom) as opposed to an actual, physical smell (Ghirardelli). But of course my starting point is Pier 43 and ending point is within a matter of yards from Durian’s.

Goonie68

I guess it all depends on the direction one is using for the verse and location. The area supports both directions, from the next line in the verse ” Not far away high posts are three” Ships or Fisherman’s Warf sign….?

I have the Balclutha as High posts are three. The ship was docked right there at Pier 41 until it was moved where it is today.
The other important part of my solve being in Aquatic Park is the Belt Railroad. The Belt ran from the Presidio under Fort Mason and along Jefferson Street to a major loading and unloading point Pier 43 and down the San Francisco coastline. It moved supplies, soldiers, immigrants and Alcatraz prisoners.
The Belt railroad is represented by her folded arms which point to the 4th line on one cuff and the 3rd line on the other cuff. So if you use this starting point and move down toward Twain’s attention (Paddle Wheel on Hyde Street Pier) you will end up at the Park boundary of Hyde Street.
If you also notice the big number “6” and large Letter “S” on the dragon/snakes body, I see those meaning “6 Steps” (just like the 5 steps in Boston are city blocks). Six blocks from Pier 43 to the West is Hyde Street and the Park.

gManTexas

That’s awesome. Do you have a higher resolution image?

Sure, here you go:
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1qN4fYo … sp=sharing

Thanks bbi!

gManTexas

Thanks bbi!

No Problem, have also found a 1979 Muni Map (in two parts) but again very clear in detail.
Part A –
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hDAuYy … sp=sharing
Part B –
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PA1Gtg … sp=sharing
The interesting thing for me on this map (the 79 one). Is the smaller piers around Fisherman’s Wharf. They changed around 1980, early 81 I believe. In this one you will see the piers look very similar to the ladies hand with the finger pointing and the 3 shorter piers. Do you think BP or JJP would have used a slightly out of date map? i.e. using a map that was only a year or two old? I’m pretty sure they would have used the most current, but it did make me wonder how often certain tourists maps where updated. Just wondering, because if they used a 1979/80 map they may have taken some imagery out of that without even realizing the changes made to the piers. Just a thought.

Choice

the japanese clue is a reference to both…mine, directly (though, indirectly referenced), yours, indirectly (while, directly referenced).

No, the actual size of these maps would be too small for Palencar’s painting. Remember, anyone can obtain a copy of the city’s cartography booklet at the Planning Department on Mission Street.
And, to those that lives far away in the East Coast, a copy could also be obtain in the Library of Congress in D.C.
it looks something like this:
the 1981 and 1982 book looks even better because it’s colored. Yes I have them, no I can’t share, it’s Federal Law. And I’m not taking such risk.
part I contains building plans, part II contains blocks and lot information, and part III were maps.

bbi

No Problem, have also found a 1979 Muni Map (in two parts) but again very clear in detail.
Part A –
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1hDAuYy … sp=sharing
Part B –
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1PA1Gtg … sp=sharing
The interesting thing for me on this map (the 79 one). Is the smaller piers around Fisherman’s Wharf. They changed around 1980, early 81 I believe. In this one you will see the piers look very similar to the ladies hand with the finger pointing and the 3 shorter piers. Do you think BP or JJP would have used a slightly out of date map? i.e. using a map that was only a year or two old? I’m pretty sure they would have used the most current, but it did make me wonder how often certain tourists maps where updated. Just wondering, because if they used a 1979/80 map they may have taken some imagery out of that without even realizing the changes made to the piers. Just a thought.

It’s very possible. Or, since this took a while to put together, maybe the map was new when BP first got it.

if you pay more attention to details you will realized these municipal maps would be too small for Palencar to use.
Look at the Manhattan map he used, look at the size of that map.

Does anyone see this in the image?…
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Tiffa … 22.4793839

Spiritr

if you pay more attention to details you will realized these municipal maps would be too small for Palencar to use.
Look at the Manhattan map he used, look at the size of that map.

Why would a map on the wall of his current studio have anything to do with the maps he used in 1979 and 1980

maltedfalcon

Why would a map on the wall of his current studio have anything to do with the maps he used in 1979 and 1980

He said he burned everything also.

and for security reasons, most maps of MUNI were altered, to the actual city of San Francisco, it only shows the correct bus route.
and it looks like this:
look at the shape of Golden Gate Park

he said he burned all the photos, but that’s a MAP, a multi-purpose usage MAP!
I post that to help the board think more logically , just think, how on earth can Palencar get his hand on one of these local maps when he’s all the way in OHIO?
those maps were just NOT accurate enough in sizing and shapes, for him to use as a map underlay
anyways, my point was if we were to predict the material BP used, such material should be much more detailed and more precise. It should be more government official and not from a municipal company.
meaning someone can walk into their local library and studies. Without paying $2 to the Muni.

Durian, part of the issue is that most, if not all of the Images are modeled after famous works of art, so in order to replicate the overall feeling of the original work, JJP had to add a lot, or in some cases very little detail.

Durian

When I was in SF last week, the Maritime Museum’s bottom floor was closed, so I didn’t get the chance to check out what is on display there. I believe however that it features an antique Mark V diving suit. These suits have large helmets with round protruding plates. Check one out here:
https://www.photostocksource.com/images/industrial-nautical-marine-maritime/160391055-mark-v-deep-sea-diving-suit-lg.jpg
It looks to me that JJP took the straight vertical lines featured in da Vinci’s
Madonna of the Rocks
and added a round plate to each of the two dome features in the painting, hinting at a dive helmet. Here’s the form from the da Vinci painting:
And here are the round protrusions in the image:
Less subtle is the object to the left of the two domes, which looks like it could easily be the glove of a Mark V diving suit, with the fingers clearly separated from the thumb. This image is from the Maritime Museum. Check out especially the shadow of the right hand, which echoes the shadow of the object in JJP’s painting:

I’m a doubter that people are required to go inside of places that charge admission to solve these puzzles, although I’m not completely against it. Do they charge? Did they charge to get in in 1982?

Durian

I think the lady’s mouth is in the shape of a fish—head to the left, fins above and below, tail fin to the right:

Not sure I agree with that assessment.
Zoomed in like that, it kinda looks like a handlebar mustache…or, a slug.
(In my opinion.)

I still say that some of you are zooming too much and over complicating things. I personally do not believe this is how the puzzles work. The images gets you in the general area and then the verse walks you through to the casque location.

Durian

I get your position re: zooming in can over-complicate things. I’m just zooming in to make it more obvious. At book size and with a magnifying glass, you’d be able to see it no problem, be it a fish or EZ’s slug. Either (or neither) way, some of the info around her mouth appears called out intentionally, like the drooping part of the lip on the left hand side. IMO, it calls for a closer look. And I see no reason why using a magnifying glass would be considered off limits by Preiss…
I have to disagree that the the images are only intended to get you in the general area, and then the verses kick in to lead to the casque. I think pretty much each verse has something in the image to corroborate that you are following the verses properly. This was really apparent to me as I walked through my own solve in SF last week. Here is my argument: Trying to think like the puzzle creators, if I was making a puzzle with verses and an image, and the verses physically moved people through a puzzle in the real world, I believe I would leave clues in the image at each stop (verse) along the way. The clues would reinforce the verses and tell people they are on the right track. For instance in my solve, there is the “Gh” for Ghirardelli. Then you move to the street corner for the “high posts/Education and Justice…” verse, and the USGS symbols match your view of the three high points on Alcatraz and the peak of Angel Island. Then the image provides a cable car bell and the compass pointing north for the intersection of Hyde and North Point St., etc…
Regardless of whether my solve is correct, this also appears to be how things work in the Cleveland and Chicago solves as well.

The issue here may be that you are focusing on San Francisco alone. That may not be true, but it seems to be the puzzle you are working on. There is so much abstraction in Image 1 that it is easy to get a case of pareidolia and have the urge to find all sorts of details. As different as all of the images in the book are, I believe there is a common pattern that was applied. Some are easier than others, but the Author and Illustrator only had so much time to devote to this. I can guarantee that the collective amount of time people have spent trying to dissect The Secret greatly dwarfs the amount of time put into making it.
I take it to heart when BP said he expected these to be solved quickly. Maybe not in year, but quickly. That to me says that we have all over complicated things. I also blame technology. The sheer volume of information and photo editing capabilities available now has corrupted and changed the way we would have approached these puzzles in 1982. I would even argue that if you are local to one of the sites, try solving by going to the library and using a magnifying glass and lots of walking around. I suspect that this would be more successful than scrubbing the internet for the most obscure connections that were either not common knowledge or readily accessible via a library or historical society.
This does not mean that forums like this cannot be helpful, they are a tool just like anything else and have to be used properly.
Back to my earlier point, please have a look at one of the more plain images and try to apply the same approach as you have for Image 1. You’ll quickly see that it does not work. So I go back to what I said, use the image to get yourself in the area, heck most of the groundwork has already been done by your predecessors. All that is required is to add up the simple clues and see how the verse matches you up to the location.
EDIT: I don’t believe there is a one to one correlation between the Verse and Image, as in, there should be a visual confirmer for each clue in the verse. I think the associations are more elastic than that. Let’s take Image 1 for example since we are in this thread: You have an Asian women with a dress which by all accounts shows us a loose map of GGP. To me this is a strong indication that we should look in San Francisco. Perhaps the casque is in GGP, but not necessarily. We also have other motifs in the image that confirm we should be in SF, but not necessarily the exact location. There are cable cars all over the place in SF. There are stone doors all over the place in SF. There are lots of details like arches or roses that could be anywhere. Some people believe there is one solid visual confirmer for the dig spot. I tend to agree, like the fence in Chicago, etc. But to dig deep in the Image to shoehorn things into a solve that doesn’t just flow is the wrong approach in my opinion. Also, some things in the images are just throw aways or filler material, and do not play into the solution at all, and exist for artistic purposes.

you know I never ever before thought of those similarities.
very interesting.
Is it my imagination or did your last post get suddenly longer.
Dont go back and massively change your old ones, just add a new reply.
I might skip over something important you wrote, because I “Know” I already read that reply…

Euhirudinea

I’d be willing to bet the same box of chocolates that:
1) The area has already been scouted by someone other than treetops.
2) If it hasn’t already been probed, someone is making plans to do so as I type this.
3) If it hasn’t been done already, someone is planning a trip to the nearest Surplus Store to buy an entrenching tool so they can sneak a shovel into GGP, although personally, I hope that they will reach out to the proper authorities and do the dig legally.

You may be right. (And I second your hope that people are doing things the proper way with permission from the authorities.) But it would be nice to get some confirmation that a casque retrieval is underway.
Hey, San Francisco folks! Is anyone taking action to pursue the stairway-railing-fourth-step solution, or do I need to send out my own search party?

Oregonian, I still cant see how you’re treating the verse as a whole. Does that essential portion of this theory exist in specific location or are you operating on a more loose and visual approach? I’ve seen a lot of great speculations, but I dont see how it comes together.

I’m not confident enough in this location to start digging around. I’m going to try and get over to the local history collection at the main library and see if I can’t turn up some contemporary photos or plans of the area.

Unknown

Unknown:
I still cant see how you’re treating the verse as a whole

If we are in the right place, and I think the image confirmations are too good to ignore, then the verse is little more than one big site confirmer for the NE corner of GGP. All the elements are there, but so loosely constructed that you have no chance of finding the dig spot without the image.

Unknown

Unknown:
I’m not confident enough in this location to start digging around.

Fair enough. But the next time you are there, would you mind looking at the place Oregonian has suggested to see if there is any evidence of others working the spot? The thread has had a significant number of views, and I have to believe that someone is confident enough in the solve to at least start poking around.

Euhirudinea

the next time you are there, would you mind looking at the place Oregonian has suggested to see if there is any evidence of others working the spot?

Yeah, I second that request! Because, if there’s no signs of digging, Renovator owes all of us a big box of Ghirardelli chocolates!

Euhirudinea

If we are in the right place, and I think the image confirmations are too good to ignore, then the verse is little more than one big site confirmer for the NE corner of GGP. All the elements are there, but so loosely constructed that you have no chance of finding the dig spot without the image.

GGP has been under the microscope many times for a long while now. It is a large area with many attractions, some of which have been heavily renovated. Finding the pearl of Far Cathay by loosely focusing on anything that resembles a giant step and pole isnt a bad way to start. Boots on the ground is the best/only way to narrow your search. I think the verse must be accurately applied at that point and not treated so lightly.

Unknown

Unknown:
I think the verse must be accurately applied at that point and not treated so lightly.

Well, I did hedge by saying “little more”. You need the verse to confirm that you are in the correct general area (rather loosely I might add), and you also need the verse to identify the treasure ground (giant pole, giant step). But you absolutely need the image to identify the dig spot. For this particular puzzle, the verse is significantly less important than the image (unlike say Milwaukee, where I believe the opposite is true).

Its all a case by case basis. I didn’t mean to accuse anyone of ignoring the verse. I just wasn’t seeing any strong verse correlation to what’s being attributed to an image-matching approach. People have been working very hard, so respect and credit for all the exhaustive research and investigating.
While I like the tea garden area and the visuals, I also have a hard time seeing how some visuals are being treated, such as the hG, which so strongly matches from a view near Russian Park. Something about recognizing Ghirardelli from that perspective tells me there’s something important to recognize towards finding the casque. I’m not saying the casque has to be in or near Russian Park, but maybe there’s something about chocolate or the letters themselves which produce a particular viewpoint in your candidate area of the Tea Garden. Chocolate chip cookies/fortune cookies? Maybe there’s some association there.
I’m banking on the fact that you can see Alcatraz from the Ghirardelli area and that seems to be visually represented in the background of the image with the prison bars. It’s hard to decide which parts of the image might only be START visuals and which are END visuals (END being the treasure ground). Cleveland seemed to have most strongly END Visuals, while Chicago had BREADCRUMB visuals, but both had that faint sketching of lines that drew us closest to the casque when at the monolithic wall or the fence’s arch. The table in image 1 looks to me like that kind of clue, so I want to think the casque is very close to some circular disk shaped thing, which is why the pool at the Palace of the Legion of Honor always seemed so compelling.

It’s true that there was no real internet then…but…there were libraries, and the 1940 Expo in San Francisco was fairly well documented. I’m sure he had no trouble finding pics! Especially if he was actually out there.
Truly–about those buildings and the rocks…I haven’t seen a better match to the ones in p.1! That’s kinda what got me started on this tack in the first place–seeing the images of the “rocket-like” building, and those rock-like buildings. it really blew me away.
Was it buried on TI? Probably not at all–but within sight of it? I’ll bet on it with a certainty I haven’t had in a long time in this game.
There are accounts of TI in the early 80’s on the museum’s web site–they have a “memory book” where you can look up first-person accounts of TI from it’s inception to now. In one entry, a lady wrote about visiting the museum and how “Building #1–the curved building–was at the time an airport terminal. And how “Building #2,” which was behind it, was the crumbling remains of the “Hall of Aerial Transportation.” (see quotes below)  I was reminded of the “wind-swept halls, and from ancient dreams of flight etc.” lines from the other verse. If you go thru the entries in the memory book, you can see that the public has been going onto the base for quite a while, and BP probably could have gotten on it easily enough, if not to bury the casque, at least to look.
We learned that this building, which the Navy had unpretentiously dubbed “Building One,” had been the Administration Building for the world’s fair—and that it had been designed to be an airport terminal. AIRPORT TERMINAL? Yes indeed, and the building behind it—now you can answer this one—“Building Two”—had been the Hall of Aerial Transportation! As we drew nearer we saw a bas relief high in the two-story recessed doorway of this gargantuan building, a goddess in flowing robes, standing atop a small globe, wings on her feet. She, like the remainder of the buildings we saw on Treasure Island, had been neglected. Her plaster skin was crumbling in places, and bits of bird nest poked out from the holes.

Well, sure we did!
I also liked Room 222 with Karen Valentine.
Actually, I was wondering where that number came from, exactly? I mean, does SF have all of its landmarks numbered?

Can someone who was familar with the Base/Museum back in the day,
let us know if there was a Pacifica statue in the plaza fronting the museum??

pacifica was torn down immediately after the fair. The building itself is the only remnant of the fair on the island that I know of.

fox

nobody liked my 222 = Golden Gate Bridge?

actually I sure did, it would very important to find out where on the ground that information is.
… where is a marker that says that located (besides online)

24 images of the Fair, showing the buildings, the layout and the statues. This is a power-point presentation, so be patient and let it run.
http://www.sfmuseum.net/views/ggieviews.ppt

http://www.sfmuseum.net/hist6/ti-statue.html
Is this the Pacifica statue you were talking about?

no, this one
http://www.pacificastatue.org/

I am struck by the similarities of the facial features of the
lady in Image 1 and the face of the Pacifica Statue….
the straight nose, the eyebrows and the contrast on the lips…
I realize that the angle of the photo changes the face ,
but the  straightness of the nose and where the
eyebrows arch to meet the nose…look so similar.
If Pacifica were not around in 1981, then maybe it is a moot point.
AP

And her arms were/are outstretched
(between the arms)
The body of the statue has some resemblence (shape) of image 1 as well.

nobody liked my 222 = Golden Gate Bridge?

AP, I don’t see any resemblance, beyond the fact that both are female faces. Some features are actually opposite (widow’s peak vs. part, upward-slanting eyes vs. downward-slanting…).

maltedfalcon

no, this one
http://www.pacificastatue.org/

that one was in the Power Point presentation in the post just before my other one.

Both faces are vaguely Oriental, but to me, there’s not much other real resemblance. Since the pearl is the Chinese treasure, an Oriental face was called for. The ‘downward’ slant of the eyes on the guidebook cover is due to the angle the drawing is done from–i.e., looking up, not full face-on.
However, I do believe that the image suggests the Far East, as did the entire fair when it was on–it celebrated the cultures from the Pacific rim–Asian and Polynesian.
I really suggest you all look at that PP presentation. It has very clear images from the Fair and they are quite interesting. Especially the “rock-like” buildings in the 6th image–they look quite like the rocks in the background of P. 1. Startlingly so, in fact. In fact, so much so–well–I’ll let you look at them.

FB,
You are right about Pacifica and Image 1 not being a perfect match.
It’s just her
NOSE
!
Shecrab,
The power point of the exposition was very interesting.
The rock formations are very like the rocks in image 1.
I can’t see how they could destroy such a magnificent place.
Do you think that BP would make use of images that
were not really present at the sight when he was there?
The internet was not readily available in the early 80’s,
so the search would have been much more difficult to
find related historic photos.
AP

As was the case of the Chicago Exposition, the buildings at the fair on TI were not built to last
mostly just stucco over wood. the statues were mostly just poured concrete and by the end of the fair the salt air and moisture was beginning to cause a great deal of wear and tear.
I really wish those photos had been color, the fair was an incredible site I’ve been told.
lots of things we think of as “calfornian” were introduced there…

Found an exact match for the 2 lower left symbols on the GGP outline in image 1 at the same location, Brocklebank Apartment Building located at 1000 Mason Street near Huntington park. Haven’t found anything else notable in the area as of yet. Maybe someone with an architectural / artistic background would know what these are called. They could have been used as designs on other buildings / structures. Something to look out for…
http://www.historyshomes.com/detail.cfm?id=748

Found an exact match for the 2 lower left symbols on the GGP outline in image 1 at the same location, Brocklebank Apartment Building located at 1000 Mason Street near Huntington park. Haven’t found anything else notable in the area as
of
yet. Maybe someone with an architectural / artistic background would know what these are called. They could have been used as designs on other buildings / structures. Something to look out for…
http://www.historyshomes.com/detail.cfm?id=748

I believe the symbols on the same row are related. i.e. 2 triangles with the rectangle/cross across the robe. I’m in the camp of GG bridge on those.
If you rotate the 2 triangles clockwise it looks like a span of the bridge with it’s reflection.
Notice the reflection part is distorted by waves.
Also X and A resemble the base of the tower and the tower itself.

I
believe the symbols on the same row are related.
i
.e. 2 triangles with the rectangle/cross across the robe.
I
‘m in the camp
of
GG bridge on those.
If you rotate the 2 triangles clockwise it looks like a span
of
the bridge with it’s reflection.
Notice the reflection part is distorted by waves.
Also X and A resemble the base
of
the tower and the tower itself.

Cool sculpture. Does the clock near the base read 6 o’clock?

Unknown

Unknown:
Does the clock near the base read 6 o’clock?

Twice a day.

Or maybe not! One maybe able to find all the clues in the painting in this fountain.

You don’t need to flip the rose. the protruding finger in the rose corresponds with the location of immigration holding facility.
It’s a huge coincidence that the Tiburon looking rock formation sits right on top of the rose (angel island) were it should be. Also shark on top left of painting (position of Pacific ocean) can be a second clue to Tiburon (shark in Spanish).

You don’t need to flip the rose. the protruding finger in the rose corresponds with the location
of
immigration holding facility.
It’s a huge coincidence that the Tiburon looking rock formation sits right on top
of
the rose (angel island) were it should be. Also shark on top left
of
painting (position
of
Pacific ocean) can be a second clue to Tiburon (shark in Spanish).

You don’t need to
flip
the rose. the protruding finger in the rose corresponds with the location of immigration holding facility.
It’s a huge coincidence that the Tiburon looking rock formation sits right on top of the rose (angel island) were it should be. Also shark on top left of painting (position of Pacific ocean) can be a second clue to Tiburon (shark in Spanish).