I have seen that same guide, and the mark for water tower is a circle with lines in it, I don’t see that with any of the symbols in the dress. Also the triangle that is in the USGS does not have a dot in the middle….is there different symbols from the USGS? The symbol in the illustration is a triangle with dot in center.

The circle with the dot also represents the sun (see TGAT thread). Interestingly, this symbol is part of Chinese Oracle Bone Script, although none of the other symbols appear to be a match to those types of characters..MaltedFalcon, any pics of the Portsmouth Square symbols??

davinci4

Hi All. Just a quick question. Any past discussion as to the meaning of the symbols encompassing the border? Nothing really inciteful on the wiki other than the obvious mention of the Ying-yang symbol.

I see the symbols like this:
Yin Yang – San Francisco Pumping station #2 at the Aquatic Pier
Upside down VI – the six on the Ghirardelli Clock
First letter “A” – BUENA VISTA CAFE sign on the restaurants glass
Second letter “A” – Argonaut Hotel
X – in the logo of the South End Rowing Club at on Jefferson across the street….here’s whats on their building
http://www.hmdb.org/Photos2/227/Photo227041.jpg
3 circles in a triangular shape – No Idea
Up and Down Triangles – Shapes of the spaces underneath the supports of the Golden Gate Bridge
http://www.hmdb.org/Photos2/227/Photo227041.jpg
The upside down looking V in a square – that simply looks like the shape of a mast on a ship but the square is confusing…..too much of a stretch for me.
The symbol at the bottom right – could be a set of windows on a number of buildings around NMP
Two half circles at bottom – I have blown this up over and over and all I can see is two heads facing each other. I’d like to say it is the turn table but it looks more like a graphic representation of two heads facing each other. Perhaps referencing the two Speaker Towers….? What also interests me is that below the center of those two heads is a tiny black circle in the gold trim and from what I’ve seen that is not a printing mistake. I’m just curious if anyone else has noticed it?

davinci4

The circle with the dot also represents the sun (see TGAT thread). Interestingly, this symbol is part of Chinese Oracle Bone Script, although none of the other symbols appear to be a match to those types of characters..MaltedFalcon, any pics of the Portsmouth Square symbols??

oh heck no, that was before celphones had cameras….

Circle and dot? Sounds like the Sun symbol on an Astrological chart.

https://www.ngs.noaa.gov/PUBS_LIB/TRNOS88NGS19.pdf
Found this PDF on symbols , only explanation of the triangle with a dot but no square

maltedfalcon

That would be a great clue in a different treasure hunt, but so far none of the placements of the gems in the images, has any connection to the location of the casque.
at least in this treasure hunt.
The same is true for using the clock hands as a bearing or direction.
The nearest thing to an exception for that is NY using the time as a function of steps.
It is very easy to pick and choose clues that seem to line up, it is much more difficult when you try to make those clues work like they do in the found casque solves.

I would have to disagree with you on this. I think Cleveland is a perfect example of what I’m talking about.
If you look at Image 4 we see the jewel in the center of the artwork itself and on top of that is is above the ground people use to walk around the park. The circular ball with the triangle points to the ball and toward the location in the planter box. That box is in the central part of the Greek Cultural Garden and visually in the central part of Image 4. The view is telling you where the jewel was located once you were in the right spot.
And like Durian had mentioned, I don’t think this won’t change somewhat from Image to Image but from what I’ve been studying in my solves, the location on the Image Artwork is a clue as to where the casque may be.

MrBackstop, great stuff with the symbols. I especially like the “A” on the Argonaut Hotel, fantastic!

Durian

Squares with dots =
Land grant, homestead, mineral, or other special survey monument.
It’s a catch all a surveyor or map-maker might use for things they want to note, but for which there is not an established symbol.
Circle =
Tanks
—often depicted black for oil or blue for water.
Triangle =
Horizontal control
—used for surveying. Mountain peaks or hilltops are commonly used for this purpose. Plus, outside of USGS symbols, a triangle is pretty much the standard mark map-makers use to denote peaks.
Why do I think the meaning of these are clear?

I don’t know why,
I guess I was looking for Circle with dot, Triangle with dot and Square with dot. They don’t exist as usgs symbols
my assumption being he would use the exact symbol if he were actually referencing a map symbol.
as we know this was supposed to be one of the easy ones. If he were including a reference hidden like that, I can’t see him disguising it also.
we see in Chicago and Cleveland he can make the images exactly the way he wants them.

Is there a strong connection between Sutro heights and Chinese immigration?
BTW since China is practically on the opposite side of planet, the coordinate numbers of San Francisco and Eastern China are the same 37/122,

Spiritr

NO filming , so live has to cancel.

no worries – It is true, that rule sucks, however it is much better than – NO digging!

looking for parking now

NO filming , so live has to cancel.

no the path is way below the level where you can see the arch
at the spot you have indicated its about 20 feet below the parkinglot level

Ok.  Perhaps we’re not meant to have a view of the arch at the final spot.  I’m very enthusiastic about the line from the pool vector.  I’m not sold on the arch vector as much.  Perhaps its just along the wall below the railing.

erexere

Can someone measure the circumfrence of the pool in the parking lot of the Palace of the Legion of Honor?
I’m doing a simulation with soccer practice cones to verify a specific use of perspective angle to deterimine a distance needed to find the casque at that location.

Diameter
waters edge to waters edge 78 feet
outer rim to outer rim 90 feet
just over 887 feet in circumference.

Thanks maltedfalcon!
I just got back from the parking lot at Best Buy.  I used cones, measured out the perspective using those dimensions and I think I’m on the right track.  I’m trying to find a very good estimate to start with, but if there is more exacting way to find the spot through fitting the perspective and counting off paces, I hope it will help someone find this.
Working on the data and some picture tests currently, will publish results soon.  If I’m right in the way this method is applied, I can reverse engineer the location of my car in the parking lot and it will be in the same place as the table top in the image and my wheel base should be the same length as the table’s width.  This doesn’t prove this method was used by Byron, but if it was, my experiment determines an exact spot for a dig attempt based on matching the position and width of fountain pool relative to the Palace arch from where one would stand to and take a picture.  I’m not sure how Byron would’ve gone about constructing this particular casque puzzle in this way, as it seems a bit complicated and sneaky.

So in general terms where is ou theory leading you?

Well, I concluded that my idea with dependency on the size of the fountain being maintained as a distance perspective is NOT the way to go.  If I do so, then I end up pretty far off on the other side of the road below.  I have several items I wish to work into the perspective, and it’s impossible to put them all into view, which leads me to conclude there’s some items in one perspective and then a shift to a different set of items for another perspective.  Both perspectives work together some how.
Here’s an attempt to sort the items:  The watch = lamp post, and the tabletop = 90 ft diameter fountain pool.  I found a simple angle of view that indicates it’s possible to put the lamp post right in line with the spout center and have the pool’s depth and width look very similarly proportioned to the tabletop. I think this is an alignment motif with a direction in mind as a line that points us beyond the railing to the ledge below.  (I’ll call that the pool vector).
Next, there’s some indication of proportionality between the pool’s width and the center of the image and a right triangle that might indicate the angle between the pool vector and the arch vector.  One thing I did was cut and paste multiple copies of the tabletop to see how many spans would fit along each edge of the triangle.  It’s one 90ft diameter width between the pool vector and the arch vector.  Most of my other lines can be ignored, I was just working some alternate ideas.  The white circles are completely arbitrary, look closer and you’ll see the tabletops rotated 90 degrees and stacked five high.
Finally, see how the arch vector (starts at right side of the arch) passes a point just 90ft from the center of the fountain (purple circle), and continues to a point past the ledge where it intersects the pool vector (yellow circle).  The red circle is the lamp post.
Ignore my distance measures, they are only used to approximate my overall approach.  You’ll have more success just standing there at the site and marking specific points.  Use a balloon or a ribbon to tie at the railing when you locate the pool vector with lamp post and fountain spout, then use whatever means makes sense to you to find it’s intersection with the arch vector.  I’m guessing you can see the arch even while standing below by the path?
Was this an approach you already tried?

maltedfalcon

yes, the object of twain’s attention features prominently in the image.
more tomorrow…

Did the “more tomorrow” happen yet?

Merlot Brougham

Did the “more tomorrow” happen yet?

more importantly, the giant pole I was working off didn’t exist in 1981 so just ignore my comment.

Which pole is that?

erexere

Which pole is that?

The Betsy Ross Memorial Flagpole was taken down in 1972

Oh? I thought we had some indication from aerial imagery that there was a pole and shadow of what looks like a flag. It was kinda blurry so I dont know for sure.

erexere

Oh? I thought we had some indication from aerial imagery that there was a pole and shadow of what looks like a flag. It was kinda blurry so I dont know for sure.

I was told by groundskeepers, the remembered it was removed in 1992 when they added the statue garden
but I spoke with the local museum which had pictures of the parking lot in the late 70’s sans pole.
pictures trump memories…

By chance was it brought down temporarily for resto work or inspection after some major wind storm or for earthquake readiness?

erexere

By chance was it brought down temporarily for resto work or inspection after some major wind storm or for earthquake readiness?

Sadly no the pole was removed as were all the shrubs around the fountain and then the parkinglot was paved.

Such unsettling news, thanks for your hard work maltedfalcon.

Or the easiest and most specific ones got solved first and more vague with little landmark clues remain.

It all seems too complicated compared to Chicago and Cleveland.

Dominick

It all seems too complicated compared to Chicago and Cleveland.

Agree, I’d say the two finds covered the range of difficulty as well so majority should be comparable with only one or two outliers

drunknerds

The Innocents’ Abroad, by Twain, contains this line:
no other object can chain your whole attention.
Referring to the Milan Cathedral
Now, we already knew that ten years ago. Here’s the thing I found which I think may be new(at least it seems to be according to the search bar)
DeYoung Museum has an etching of the Milan Cathedral.
https://art.famsf.org/ladislaus-rupp/il … 9633034185
Got to commute, but then I’ll hit up that department and see if they know if it was on display in 1980

I doubt it the deyoung was an asian art and textile museum that was their big thing..
regular art was few and far betweeen

Well, I quit then

drunknerds

Well, I quit then

You just need to see what is in front of you and step through the door!

drunknerds

Well, I quit then

If I had a nickel for every time I said this about the secret…
Well I would at least have a buck 80

drunknerds

Well, I quit then

Unknown

Unknown:
It was at that table d’hôte, too, that I had under inspection the largest lady I have ever seen in private life. She was over seven feet high, and magnificently proportioned. What had first called my attention to her, was my stepping on an outlying flange of her foot, and hearing, from up toward the ceiling, a deep “Pardon, m’sieu, but you encroach!”
That was when we were coming through the hall, and the place was dim, and I could see her only vaguely. The thing which called my attention to her the second time was, that at a table beyond ours were two very pretty girls, and this great lady came in and sat down between them and me and blotted out my view. She had a handsome face, and she was very finely formed—perfectly formed, I should say. But she made everybody around her look trivial and commonplace. Ladies near her looked like children, and the men about her looked mean. They looked like failures; and they looked as if they felt so, too. She sat with her back to us. I never saw such a back in my life. I would have so liked to see the moon rise over it. The whole congregation waited, under one pretext or another, till she finished her dinner and went out; they wanted to see her at full altitude, and they found it worth tarrying for. She filled one’s idea of what an empress ought to be, when she rose up in her unapproachable grandeur and moved superbly out of that place.
-from
A Tramp Abroad

You can still ask the museum if there used to be a seven-foot-tall woman in residence:

found this picture in an old discarded photo album from a tour of SF in the 1970’s…
does anyone recognize where this constructed setting might have been or is it still existant?

If that is a strawberry under her arms and that is a reference to Strawberry Hill and her arms are Crossover Drive, than where the dragons open hand is matches the Great Meadow. The dragons closed hand is over Shakespeare’s Garden. The pearl at her neck is the same distance as the closed dragon hand. If you fold the image at the arms the pearl is in Shakespeare’s Garden.
I am just throwing out ideas. I want the real San Fran one found to disprove Gerald.

Dominick

If that is a strawberry under her arms and that is a reference to Strawberry Hill and her arms are Crossover Drive, than where the dragons open hand is matches the Great Meadow. The dragons closed hand is over Shakespeare’s Garden. The pearl at her neck is the same distance as the closed dragon hand. If you fold the image at the arms the pearl is in Shakespeare’s Garden.
I am just throwing out ideas. I want the real San Fran one found to disprove Gerald.

I like your zeal, but much of this has already been covered many times over the years. What we need is people to go take photos and videos to see if anything new shakes loose. Are you local?

I like your zeal, but much of this has already been covered many times over the years. What we need is people to go take photos and videos to see if anything new shakes loose. Are you local?
Bay area, but not the city. Vacaville.

Unknown

Unknown:
I want the real San Fran one found to disprove Gerald.

While finding the authentic casque would be the ultimate proof, I don’t think we really need more evidence to conclude that Dr.Gay is perpetrating a hoax. As has been shown, the Forum is pretty good at sniffing out fakes and frauds.

Euhirudinea

While finding the authentic casque would be the ultimate proof, I don’t think we really need more evidence to conclude that Dr.Gay is perpetrating a hoax. As has been shown, the Forum is pretty good at sniffing out fakes and frauds.

I disagree. He has stated that he believe his casque is real and the only one who can prove him wrong is dead. He is already using this “find” for his benefit. Byron is the only one that buried the casque. We can talk to as many people as we can who knew him, worked with him, and worked on the book but it doesn’t unless we are told where the casque was buried by some one who knows. Gerald can say he found it. Gerald is creating his own reality.

Dominick

I disagree. He has stated that he believe his casque is real and the only one who can prove him wrong is dead.

His logic is flawed. The maker of the cask is alive and well and she already dismissed Gay’s cask as a fake.
Why are we still talking about that guy? To steal a line from Mr. Wonderful: “he’s dead to me!”
Soooo… here’s another layout correlation with image:

This looks like the pearl from the image –
https://c8.alamy.com/comp/H2JMJ7/aerial … H2JMJ7.jpg

I
think the blue in the hills on the left hand side represents an object. Turned sideways it kinda looks like a genie’s lamp. Well, maybe not but its a peculiar shape and a peculiar place to use blue in the picture so
i
think it represents something.
Also, on the left hand side
of
the hills it looks like there is a native american wearing a robe and headress seated and looking toward the right. His head would just below and left
of
the barred window at the top
of
the hill.

I think the blue in the hills on the left hand side represents an object. Turned sideways it kinda looks like a genie’s lamp. Well, maybe not but its a peculiar shape and a peculiar place to use blue in the picture so i think it represents something.
Also, on the left hand side of the hills it looks like there is a native american wearing a robe and headress seated and looking toward the right. His head would just below and left of the barred window at the top of the hill.

People have been trying to fit something around Ghiradelli Square since 2004. Pinpointing a location from the verse is the problem. But the thing is, even if you had an idea for an exact spot somewhere in the region of Ghiradelli Square, you’d find it virtually impossible to get anyone to investigate it. This hunt can only be solved by someone with a spade and a plane ticket.

Goldengate

http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2018/04/30/people-descend-san-francisco-search-buried-treasure/

Wow, they really tore up the grass in front of the Senior Center.
Thanks for posting!

I
‘m not sure if this is correct or not, but an old thread on the American Treasure Hunt Society forum mentioned that this pictured referred to New York as the lady’s face is that
of
the Statue
of
Liberty.
Chris.

I’m not sure if this is correct or not, but an old thread on the American Treasure Hunt Society forum mentioned that this pictured referred to New York as the lady’s face is that of the Statue of Liberty.
Chris.

>Seabass
I took the fingers pointing to these spots to be an indication to fold the picture to pull these two sides together. When you do fold the picture, kind of like the old Mad magazine style fold, the figure appears to be a ninja type hooded figure. It’s simply a clue to indicate an asian theme, but its a very clean image that comes together. When combined with the Tea Pot below the table then these two clues led me to the tea garden.

I’m sharing my solution (link below) so that others may leverage the clues I’ve identified. Unfortunately, I think if these clues are right then I think we’ll likely never find the Sf casque. One thing I would like to try is to get is JJP to confirm the folding of the image as I’ve done in my solution. The image appears to seamlessly merge the two sides and the blue aura and even hair combine to form a clue.
I had my second opportunity to dig at the Tea Garden today, but unfortunately the spot I hoped to explore had been trenched and excavated and no longer worth exploring.
You can find my solution here:
http://thesecret.pbworks.com/w/file/SF% … pr2018.pdf
Appreciate any thoughts on the image clues and solution to the verse.

cnllreds

One thing I would like to try is to get is JJP to confirm the folding of the image as I’ve done in my solution.

Please don’t bother JJP he has asked not to be contacted or questioned.
If you want to prove your theory, find the casque, if the casque is gone then this one just becomes a mystery

I
believe this image falls under the following theme:
June (6 o’clock)
Pearl
Rose
Chinese/Asian Theme
“From far Cathay, the dragon’s Pearl:
Chaste, perfect as the silver moon.”

I believe this image falls under the following theme:
June (6 o’clock)
Pearl
Rose
Chinese/Asian Theme
“From far Cathay, the dragon’s Pearl:
Chaste, perfect as the silver moon.”

Durian

Hi. For anyone interested, After playing with the San Francisco image/verse, I’ve come up with a really tidy and interesting non-Golden Gate Park solution in Aquatic Park. Check it out and let me know what you think:
https://thesecretsfsolution.blogspot.com/

Excellent job!

Durian

Hi. For anyone interested, After playing with the San Francisco image/verse, I’ve come up with a really tidy and interesting non-Golden Gate Park solution in Aquatic Park. Check it out and let me know what you think:
https://thesecretsfsolution.blogspot.com/

Excellent – Hi we on the forums have considered Aquatic park many times, it certainly could be the location…
a couple points for you to consider…
The hyde street cable car turntable is not in the same location as it was when the casques were buried. the cable car system was shutdown in 1979 and rebuilt (this includes the renovation and move of the hyde street turnaournd) it was opened to the public in 1984
so using the present location as an indicator is problematic. the park changed significantly between 79 and 84 ) a huge part being buried by the new turnaround that now moved from the intersection into the actual park.
street lights /lamp posts are routinely replaced and removed and upgraded. so using current street lights as a marker, clue is problematic.
for instance I was using very ornate street lights as a clue in one of my solves, but after further research it turns out they were installed in 1984 and in 1981 there were no streetlights there at all.
Using the Eureka as a clue is also problematic as it is a boat (therefore it moves) while it was docked on that pier, in 1981 it was not in the location where it currently resides. so that will throw your bearings off a significant bit. I personally remember visiting in the early 80s and it was on the east side of the pier much closer to the street and it was there for a while, they were either renovating or constructing the current docking position at that time.
Any way be sure in your head, to re-create the way it looked in 1981, before trying to solve the clues.

Sage words from Malted as always.

maltedfalcon

even for those of us with big multiple monitors!

Time for the old guard to get some spectacles?
The link to the image gallery is in the original post. Just saying…

BINGO

Time for the old guard to get some spectacles?
The link to the image gallery is in the original post. Just saying…

Worn Glasses almost my whole life, Are you being a myopiaist? and dissing the vision impaired? (Just kidding!)
the link scrolls off cause the page fills with image…

maltedfalcon

Worn Glasses almost my whole life, Are you being a myopiaist? and dissing the vision impaired? (Just kidding!)
the link scrolls off cause the page fills with image…

Not sure why the images are that big so suddenly. I haven’t changed my upload routine on Imgur and they are blowing up randomly. That’s why I added the gallery link in the first place.
Oh well, links only from now on. My apologies to the old guard.

Durian

Hi. For anyone interested, After playing with the San Francisco image/verse, I’ve come up with a really tidy and interesting non-Golden Gate Park solution in Aquatic Park. Check it out and let me know what you think:
https://thesecretsfsolution.blogspot.com/

I haven’t read it yet but huge props for using a blog page! I hadn’t thought of doing that, great idea!!
Edit: nice work. I’ll have to run through it but very compelling argument here.

Durian

Thanks for the response Malted! I hear you about things moving, but I was born in SF and those streetlamps have likely been there since at least the early 1970s. The turnaound and/or the boat being moved a matter of literally a stone’s throw doesn’t really change much. The real question for my solution is how long have those steps coming off of Hyde street been there? Everything else fits nicely, and the whole stroll keeps Angel Island in view, a priority for the author. I’m sticking with my solution.

you would think it wouldn’t but since you are searching for a 5″ square simply choosing to use the bow or the stern or the smokestack as your bearing, will cause a significant difference in you “spot” That the boat moved laterally 100 yards is a big deal.
but in general I believe that stairway and walkways and grassy areas were created in 1983/84 when the park was rennovated for the enhanced streetcar turnaround. This is also when the park was added to the historic places register so that they had just done significant upgrades prior to that makes sense.

maltedfalcon

you would think it wouldn’t but since you are searching for a 5″ square simply choosing to use the bow or the stern or the smokestack as your bearing, will cause a significant difference in you “spot” That the boat moved laterally 100 yards is a big deal.
but in general I believe that stairway and walkways and grassy areas were created in 1983/84 when the park was rennovated for the enhanced streetcar turnaround. This is also when the park was added to the historic places register so that they had just done significant upgrades prior to that makes sense.

Nope I am wrong your stair way was definitely there in 81!

1969 Aquatic Park.

Rather, I was thinking about a hedgehog in sneakers.
–Johann

Rather,
I
was thinking about a hedgehog in sneakers.
–Johann

Unknown

Unknown:
For those of you reading this thread and not knowing where the “38” latitude is coming from, as Fox points out in another thread, it’s the number of boxes on her sleeve.

That’s a stretch, considering how many other numbers — Roman and otherwise — are in this picture.  However, those suspicious hair curls on the right look like a tilted “38”, so I’m cool.

Unknown

Unknown:
For those
of
you reading this thread and not knowing where the “38” latitude is coming from, as Fox points out in another thread, it’s the number
of
boxes on her sleeve.

That’s a stretch, considering how many other numbers — Roman and otherwise — are in this picture.  However, those suspicious hair curls on the right look like a tilted “38”, so
I
‘m cool.

there is a very logical da vinci connection that should be obvious to someone local…lol…

I gotta agree with Seabass. You found some things that are a bit more direct and compelling, such as the view from the top of Russian Hill….or, the symbol at the bottom of the dress, compared to the turnaround….or, the number of steps on either side of the stairs (fading away) vs. the number of squares in the sleeves….etc.
You don’t need to read more into it and you don’t need to find some other links (which may not really exist) in an attempt to justify things further, imho. Let the visual evidence stand on its own.

Gman, you might be right about some people not thinking about life on Alcatraz and how many people may not know about prison life. But in 1975 I was in the 6th grade and we studied wars and prisons pretty thoroughly.
At age 11 I got to understand what type of hell my uncles went through in Viet Nam and what life was like for prisoners on Alcatraz. I kind of took for granted some of the basic info I learned as a 6th grader that may not have been covered in other parts of our country. The gardens of Alcatraz were well known in my school. We also studied a lot of details concerning the Victory Gardens created during WWII.

Gman, you might be right about some people not thinking about life on Alcatraz and how many people may not know about prison life. But in 1975
I
was in the 6th grade and we studied wars and prisons pretty thoroughly.
At age 11
I
got to understand what type
of
hell my uncles went through in Viet Nam and what life was like for prisoners on Alcatraz.
I
kind
of
took for granted some
of
the basic info
I
learned as a 6th grader that may not have been covered in other parts
of
our country. The gardens
of
Alcatraz were well known in my school. We also studied a lot
of
details concerning the Victory Gardens created during WWII.

Unknown

Unknown:
oh thats one other thing I wanted to point out.
pix 1 has a map of GG park as viewed from above
The chicago Pix has a outline of the
fountain
in grant park when viewed from above.
Does the cleveland pix have any possible arial imagery imbeded into it?

Sorry, no aerial imagery I could match.  In the lower left of the picture is a bunch of branches which I thought may be a map of the cultural gardens, but try as I might, it just wouldn’t match.
You guys are chasing this one down nicely.  Here are more pics of Golden Gate Park than anyone could possibly want!
http://my.sfgov.org/photogallery/photogallery.aspx?dept=116&search=indexpage&location=Golden%20Gate%20Park&cS=1

Unknown

Unknown:
oh thats one other thing I wanted to point out.
pix 1 has a map of GG park as viewed from above
The chicago Pix has a outline of the fountain in grant park when viewed from above.
Does the cleveland pix have any possible arial imagery imbeded into it?

Sorry, no aerial imagery I could match.  In the lower left of the picture is a bunch of branches which I thought may be a map of the cultural gardens, but try as I might, it just wouldn’t match.
You guys are chasing this one down nicely.  Here are more pics of Golden Gate Park than anyone could possibly want!
http://my.sfgov.org/photogallery/photogallery.aspx?dept=116&search=indexpage&location=Golden%20Gate%20Park&cS=1

could the object of Twain’s desire be Fulton – ie., remember that Fulton sailed the first successful riverboat trip in NY.
http://www.ulster.net/~hrmm/steamboats/fulton.html
wilhouse

The fulton connection might work, because Fulton also built the New Orleans, the first Mississippi river steamboat.
I am ashamed I shouldve caught that. I just created a series of models of Rober Fulton’s steamboats
check out
http://www.delta7studios.com/fulton.htmand
I didn’t notice lincoln on the south side of GG park

Nice idea wilhouse.  If that were the case, while standing in the park we would be looking north since Fulton Dr borders the park to the north.

oh yeah,  WOW  😮 egg on the pix of GGP.

Magesmiley

I’m kind of in a bit of a quandary right now.
I’ve got a location in San Francisco where I can match up nearly all of verse 7. I’ve also gotten a relative who was visiting the city to get some pictures of the area for me as well. I know what the moons in the picture are and I’ve got a match for the table leg too. So I’m nearly certain that I’ve got the right area. However… she wasn’t looking at the area from the vantage of finding the right spot to dig, just taking some pictures of certain things for me.
And as a result, the one thing from verse 7 I’m not 100% positive I’ve got right is the pole to start from. I have my suspicions, but without actually going to the area, I can’t be certain.
I’m going to be visiting San Francisco in early July for a couple of days and I’d like to dig then. However, I was wondering if there was anyone here local to San Francisco who might be interested in working on this one with me.
Shoot me an email if you’re interested please.

So how did the exploring go?

Magesmiley

I
‘m kind
of
in a bit
of
a quandary right now.
I
‘ve got a location in San Francisco where
I
can match up nearly all
of
verse 7.
I
‘ve also gotten a relative who was visiting the city to get some pictures
of
the area for me as well.
I
know what the moons in the picture are and
I
‘ve got a match for the table leg too. So
I
‘m nearly certain that
I
‘ve got the right area. However… she wasn’t looking at the area from the vantage
of
finding the right spot to dig, just taking some pictures
of
certain things for me.
And as a result, the one thing from verse 7
I
‘m not 100% positive
I
‘ve got right is the pole to start from.
I
have my suspicions, but without actually going to the area,
I
can’t be certain.
I
‘m going to be visiting San Francisco in early July for a couple
of
days and
I
‘d like to dig then. However,
I
was wondering if there was anyone here local to San Francisco who might be interested in working on this one with me.
Shoot me an email if you’re interested please.

So how did the exploring go?

Goonie68

[
Not so sure on the simple part LOL , So Chicago for instance would be Water tower to Bowman to loop. SF could be Cable car to Dragon’s head to….?

Technically it entered the loop once it crossed the DuSable Bridge so water tower (a specific spot) to the bowman (another specific spot)
If SF is the Cable Car, – which cable car (a specific spot) ? and what specific spot is the Dragon’s head?

is dragons head on goonies dragon at the senior center? otherwise i know the answer lol. i always thought the dragon was a combo of 3 dragons he takes you by in the puzzle.

yep dragons everywhere,
the best match I’ve seen and it is admittedly not really a good match
are the lamppost lanterns around Portsmouth square (and china town)
no it was not state farm, it was a jewelry store if I recall correctly.
they also had ying-yangs on display but they were not part of the sign.
and Portsmouth square also had the up/down and it has a big RLS monument.
its also famously where you can find the old keeping there eyes on the young playing.
Also on the dress is a triangle next to a square, portsmouth was famous as part of the triangle trade. (they built the ships)
and then the square, obviously.
So Triangle-Square = Portsmouth Square…
Seriously I could go on all morning….
but even with all those and many more, it was a horrible forced match. as is the pavilion.

More wild guesses 1: those blue squares represent stone , so the cuffs represent walls then you get “ stone walls” and the clasped hands could represent something “like your under arrest come with me and grabbing them by the arm”. Long arm of the law.Could also represent friendship.
2: the area above the hands with the dragons head inside represents the geographical location of some of the clues . The Roman numerals 1,2,3 represent the 1st , 2nd and 3rd streets south of the ghiradelli between Polk on the left side and Van Ness being on the right side ,of image.
The names of those three streets are North Point, Francisco, and Bay. Could those words get you pointing in the right direction? Something like this “Point North Francisco Bay “ or some other combination . There is a Black Point in Fort Mason park.How about the dragons nose or mouth trying to take a bite out of Van Ness and pointing towards Fort Mason park.
3: looking at the Burton statue in the park ( via google earth),it almost looks like the watch with the table , the only problem here is that it was dedicated in 1991, was erected then? Or was there something else there in 1980?
4: looking at all those strange symbols along the lower edges of the rectangle I thought they might be found in some of those glass panels of the Fort Mason Chapel across the street from the flag pole but could not find a close match ( unless they have been replaced since)

Durian

But I see plenty of things in the SF image that are unequivocally at the waterfront. Think about that for a moment.

You say “unequivocally” but the problem is that is just not true, in that every image you are using as proof, has basically been found at other places in the city.
So while you definitely have a good theory going, it is in an area that has been explored extensively. That doesn’t mean you are wrong. Just before you can use terms like “unequivocally” you need to find a casque. A lot of us looked that area over hard, and then passed it by. Hopefully you will have more luck. You might see something we didn’t so keep going!

Diceycat

3: looking at the Burton statue in the park ( via google earth),it almost looks like the watch with the table , the only problem here is that it was dedicated in 1991, was erected then? Or was there something else there in 1980?

To answer you question, no there was a path and a bush there.

Durian

I guess what I’m asking by using the word “unequivocally,” is where are the obvious items in GGP that are definitely in the hunt and obviously represented in the image. I’m looking at the two solved puzzles for examples. Each had real-life items from the hunt obviously represented in the image. For instance, in Cleveland you have the fountain, the back of the wall of the Italian Gardens, the pillars, and the pylon monument—all pretty obvious once you see them in the image. You can compare them easily to real life. In Chicago you have The Bowman, the Fountain of the Great Lakes, the street arrows/windows, and the fenceposts where the casque was found…
Where is the equivalent of The Bowman in the San Francisco image? The thing that tells us, we’re looking in the right place? And I don’t mean
generally
SF by
right place
. I mean part of the hunt we can see on the ground following the verses, like The Bowman. I’m talking “so obvious a five year old can see it” type stuff. The other puzzles have them. Where are they in SF? I don’t see any “aha!” images of Golden Gate Park, and I think this is a very legitimate question, given how the other solved puzzles have been shown to work.

Regardless of the retrospective perceived “ease” of the Chicago and Cleveland puzzles, I think the sample size of 2 out of 12 is too small to make any assumptions about how
all
of the puzzles work.

Durian

I guess what I’m asking by using the word “unequivocally,” is where are the obvious items in GGP that are definitely in the hunt and obviously represented in the image. I’m looking at the two solved puzzles for examples. Each had real-life items from the hunt obviously represented in the image. For instance, in Cleveland you have the fountain, the back of the wall of the Italian Gardens, the pillars, and the pylon monument—all pretty obvious once you see them in the image. You can compare them easily to real life. In Chicago you have The Bowman, the Fountain of the Great Lakes, the street arrows/windows, and the fenceposts where the casque was found…
Where is the equivalent of The Bowman in the San Francisco image? The thing that tells us, we’re looking in the right place? And I don’t mean
generally
SF by
right place
. I mean part of the hunt we can see on the ground following the verses, like The Bowman. I’m talking “so obvious a five year old can see it” type stuff. The other puzzles have them. Where are they in SF? I don’t see any “aha!” images of Golden Gate Park, and I think this is a very legitimate question, given how the other solved puzzles have been shown to work.

And that is because you are absolutely 100% Correct. There are none, because Golden Gate Park is Image 1’s Water tower, or Transit Building. Unfortunately that doesn’t make the rest of your theory unequivocal.

Visual confirmation with in the image that relates to GGP. JFK rock face, Lincoln face, MLK face , All of these faces depicted in the image run through GGP. I would say that this pretty much puts image, and physical visual (street names) in GGP. I don’t know of any of these 3 streets outside the park that can be connected other then GGP.

Goldengate

Durian,
If you’re looking for a few visual clues that match up to GGP. Here are a few of my personal theories… I got too much sun this weekend, so I’m forgetting the many others that have been discussed extensively on this board.
a) Strawberry — Strawberry hill
b) Her crossed arms — exactly the shape as Crossover drive, which runs almost directly into Prayerbook Cross. Also nicely correlates with “but first, across” in the verse.
c) 18 squares on one cuff, 20 on the other, exactly between 18th and 20th aves. (my own theory, but nobody has told me that’s just a coincidence). If those were to interpret stairs or to count lines, downward or up, why didn’t both cuffs just have 20 squares? Why different? I think that matters. I think her fingers pointing in the direction of the avenues, are further calling that out.
d) The triratna (three balls together in the shape of a triangle), which is the only symbol on her dress that to my knowledge can be definitively linked to an object in Golden Gate Park: The Chinese Pavilion. The Pavilion attracted great focus and a lot of press when it was installed in 1981 — the triratna, along with Chinese dragons is the most repeated design in the Pavilion. (my theory)
e) The upside down VI is lined up right where the shiny and new 6th street pedestrian entrance was christened in 1981. The entrance features an opening / entryway in the “stone wall” that encircles GGP. I’m not saying that’s the stone wall door but it’s interesting to me and seems to be a plausible indicator of what that upside down numeral means.
I know some here don’t agree with some of my visual theories and I’m still not 100% it’s GGP, but so far, my own visual observations combined with the hard work by others more than a decade before I happened upon the hunt three years ago, point to quite a few visual clues in GGP that are shared with the verse or image. .
I think it’s okay to study patterns between the different cities, but it’s also fine not to take that as canon. They’re different puzzles. Different verses. Different images. Different cities, with different themes. Your question is totally valid, but if each puzzle followed the same pattern, that would make for a slightly less interesting challenge, IMO.
Last, yes the cable car hits the waterfront… it also is found many, many other places in The City
Again, I know I’m missing a bunch… time for another round of aloe!

GG, those are definitely puzzles that could resolve to those things you say, but don’t rise to the kind of image that durian is asking about. I.e a straight up picture of a statue…

Durian

Please don’t put words in my mouth. I never said my theory was unequivocal. If you want to quote me, please do. If you want to paraphrase, please aim for accuracy…
. Don’t we all agree that’s a cable car? .

My apologies, I mis spoke – I meant to say specifically your pictures are not unequivical.
Absolutely not that is not a cable car.

Goonie68

Visual confirmation with in the image that relates to GGP. JFK rock face, Lincoln face, MLK face , All of these faces depicted in the image run through GGP. I would say that this pretty much puts image, and physical visual (street names) in GGP. I don’t know of any of these 3 streets outside the park that can be connected other then GGP.

MLK blvd in goldengate park cannot be part of the hunt as it wasn’t named that until 1983.
however JFK definitely fits the image match criteria that Durian was asking for.
FYI your image link didnt work.

Goldengate

Agreed for the most part… but I do think the Triratna does that. It’s one for one in my mind. Picture of a triratna on her dress = dozens of triratnas in the Chinese Pavilion. Also since the Chinese Pavilion was new and well publicized, a lot of eyes were drawn to those symbols in the early 80s.

I would agree if there were multiple images on the dress that matched symbols on the pavilion.
Just under the Triratna is a symbol that is found on the Elevator at portsmouth square. It goes up/down to the parking garage.
and that being said there is a Triratna on a sign across the street from portsmouth square that is a dead ringer for the one on the dress.
(at least there was way back when I was investigating v6 with image 1)
Thats two for two, plus others.
It is an extremely common symbol, -right up there with the swirl under the rose. So no I don’t think a 1 for 1 match of a common shape means anything .

Ok then take out the MLK and you are left with JFK and Lincoln, that still leaves two streets in the park that I believe connects to GGP and image. I guess the question is What are these images and who do you think they are? Clearly one is a face or is it just a random rock image? I guess once we can get past what they are then this puzzle can take a positive direction. Thoughts?

MrSeabass

Those 3 faces do not exist.

What then?

maltedfalcon

MLK blvd in goldengate park cannot be part of the hunt as it wasn’t named that until 1983.
however JFK definitely fits the image match criteria that Durian was asking for.
FYI your image link didnt work.

I have a map AAA from 1978 (which I have posted on this forum) It shows the street MLK that runs through GGP as it is now. So from the map it was named before 1983.

Durian

So none of you think a compass pointing north—with a cable car bell on top—paired with the lines “Sounds from the sky near ace is high” and along with multiple other visual references to cable cars and a cable car turnaround isn’t a stronger street reference (North Point Street) than faces which nobody can agree belong to Lincoln, JFK, Fred Flinstone, or nobody at all?

LOL, isolated like that it sure seems obvious. the trouble is, it is not isolated is it?
your assumption is simply there isn’t a better match for the “cable car”, Table top, watch…etc.
Maybe you are correct, but lets take the turntable. – not the right color, not the right shape (yes its round,) but there is a lip and a border, – also there is something in the middle (under the watch) almost like the watch is sitting on something.
so out side of the turntable and the table top are circular. [and they both have the word table
] they do not match. There are other places in the city that do.
so yes, I see the similarities, but nothing rises to the level of OMG! thats it!
and there are much much better pairings for Sounds from the sky…

Goonie68

I have a map AAA from 1978 (which I have posted on this forum) It shows the street MLK that runs through GGP as it is now. So from the map it was named before 1983.

That is totally weird…

Not doubting you,
just weird.
maybe it was unnofficial before and official after… that would make sense
post the print date/map legend/publisher info

Sorry 1979 map.

Goonie68

Sorry 1979 map.

Ah no -copyright 1979
print date
Revision C May 1984 -so an updated map.

Ok, good catch, but Like I said take out MLK and you are still left with JFK (IMO) and the Rose (Rose Garden) touches the face…..So to me this links GGP.

Goonie68

Ok, good catch, but Like I said take out MLK and you are still left with JFK (IMO) and the Rose (Rose Garden) touches the face…..So to me this links GGP.

I can’t argue with any of those but I will ask, if golden gate park is the finish and not the start, what in the image is the starting point.
ie the water tower, the transit building, city hall, the land near the window, the castillo, Fort Sumter, etc…

all this talk about faces always brings me back to the larger face on the left of center. Rather than being a symbolic match for the name of something, that feature is (or was) visible on the rock wall opposite the Cliff House. Priess took a picture of an area, gave the pic to JP, and the image appears in the montage painting. This is not an abstract connecting but is a visual confirmer for the area. Maybe it is nowhere near the final treasure site, but surely it is a marker along one path to it.
I have posted the comparison pics elsewhere, grabbed off the internet from someone’s vacation photos but without a year for when they were taken (prior to 2011). I have since returned to the spot myself and can say that the hillside has eroded. I can identify the place where the face used to be, but the features have melted. I can imagine what it must have looked like without decades of weathering, and I assume it was an exact match back then.
Call it a confirmer for the Great Highway, use it as an approach to Golden Gate Park’s west entrance, or just dismiss it as general San Francisco Bay Area scenery. Whatever. I still think of that specific “face” feature in the hillside as a better use of the painting than abstract symbolism of dubious silhouettes.
I once thought about using the gated arch in the painting to represent* either the Sutro Baths (which might have had such a doorway at one time in history) or a doorway-shaped hole which exists in the rocks of the Farallon Islands** out past Seal Rocks. Start out in the ocean (at the top of the page), work your way inland (past the “faces”), and end at GGP (in the middle of the page). It was an imaginary path.
*represent = similar to = symbolic of… all phrases I hate in riddles and puzzles.
**good image at
https://www.oceanicsociety.org/whale-watching/farallons
scroll down to photo by Roger Harris.

all this talk about faces always brings me back to the larger face on the left of center. Rather than being a symbolic match for the name of something, that feature is (or was) visible on the rock wall opposite the Cliff House. Priess took a picture of an area, gave the pic to JP, and the image appears in the montage painting. This is not an abstract connecting but is a visual confirmer for the area. Maybe it is nowhere near the final treasure site, but surely it is a marker along one path to it.
I have posted the comparison pics elsewhere, grabbed off the internet from someone’s vacation photos but without a year for when they were taken (prior to 2011). I have since returned to the spot myself and can say that the hillside has eroded. I can identify the place where the face used to be, but the features have melted. I can imagine what it must have looked like without decades of weathering, and I assume it was an exact match back then.
Call it a confirmer for the Great Highway, use it as an approach to Golden Gate Park’s west entrance, or just dismiss it as general San Francisco Bay Area scenery. Whatever. I still think of that specific “face” feature in the hillside as a better use of the painting than abstract symbolism of dubious silhouettes.
I once thought about using the gated arch in the painting to represent* either the
Sutro
Baths (which might have had such a doorway at one time in history) or a doorway-shaped hole which exists in the rocks of the Farallon Islands** out past Seal Rocks. Start out in the ocean (at the top of the page), work your way inland (past the “faces”), and end at GGP (in the middle of the page). It was an imaginary path.
*represent = similar to = symbolic of… all phrases I hate in riddles and puzzles.
**good image at
https://www.oceanicsociety.org/whale-watching/farallons
scroll down to photo by Roger Harris.

maltedfalcon

I can’t argue with any of those but I will ask, if golden gate park is the finish and not the start, what in the image is the starting point.
ie the water tower, the transit building, city hall, the land near the window, the castillo, Fort Sumter, etc…

The SF image does not have any buildings or structures in the image, which makes it tough to attach a structure to starting point from the image. The “cable car” under the table could suggest that this is the Iconic symbol of the city that we look in. IMO looking at the image and deciding through the clues, that GGP is a point of interest, seeing the dragon’s head (possibly the start) and the resemblance to the Phoenix above the “stone wall’s door” at the senior center gives me a starting point. To tie the senior center to the next line in the Verse “the air smells sweet” to me this is Spreckles lake (sugar company) which now takes you to JFK. As you make your way to JFK the road you walk right into the next verse “not far away high posts are three” Sutro Towers are perfectly seen as you step on JFK. I do believe that the water tower in Cleveland (downtown area) is miles away from the Cultural Gardens, not sure you can see the tower from there? So the Cable car is almost like the water tower in Cleveland, miles away and in the downtown area, both parks are a bit far from the land marks. IMO

maltedfalcon

I can’t argue with any of those but I will ask, if golden gate park is the finish and not the start, what in the image is the starting point.
ie the water tower, the transit building, city hall, the land near the window, the castillo, Fort Sumter, etc…

The SF image does not have any buildings or structures in the image, which makes it tough to attach a structure to starting point from the image. The “cable car” under the table could suggest that this is the Iconic symbol of the city that we look in. IMO looking at the image and deciding through the clues, that GGP is a point of interest, seeing the dragon’s head (possibly the start) and the resemblance to the Phoenix above the “stone wall’s door” at the senior center gives me a starting point. To tie the senior center to the next line in the Verse “the air smells sweet” to me this is Spreckles lake (sugar company) which now takes you to JFK. As you make your way to JFK the road you walk right into the next verse “not far away high posts are three”
Sutro
Towers are perfectly seen as you step on JFK. I do believe that the water tower in Cleveland (downtown area) is miles away from the Cultural Gardens, not sure you can see the tower from there? So the Cable car is almost like the water tower in Cleveland, miles away and in the downtown area, both parks are a bit far from the land marks. IMO

catherwood

all this talk about faces always brings me back to the larger face on the left of center. Rather than being a symbolic match for the name of something, that feature is (or was) visible on the rock wall opposite the Cliff House. Priess took a picture of an area, gave the pic to JP, and the image appears in the montage painting. This is not an abstract connecting but is a visual confirmer for the area. Maybe it is nowhere near the final treasure site, but surely it is a marker along one path to it.
I have posted the comparison pics elsewhere, grabbed off the internet from someone’s vacation photos but without a year for when they were taken (prior to 2011). I have since returned to the spot myself and can say that the hillside has eroded. I can identify the place where the face used to be, but the features have melted. I can imagine what it must have looked like without decades of weathering, and I assume it was an exact match back then.
Call it a confirmer for the Great Highway, use it as an approach to Golden Gate Park’s west entrance, or just dismiss it as general San Francisco Bay Area scenery. Whatever. I still think of that specific “face” feature in the hillside as a better use of the painting than abstract symbolism of dubious silhouettes.
I once thought about using the gated arch in the painting to represent* either the Sutro Baths (which might have had such a doorway at one time in history) or a doorway-shaped hole which exists in the rocks of the Farallon Islands** out past Seal Rocks. Start out in the ocean (at the top of the page), work your way inland (past the “faces”), and end at GGP (in the middle of the page). It was an imaginary path.
*represent = similar to = symbolic of… all phrases I hate in riddles and puzzles.
**good image at
https://www.oceanicsociety.org/whale-watching/farallons
scroll down to photo by Roger Harris.

I would love to see more about this face! I don’t think I ever saw your comparison before. if you can find your old posts I would love to read/see them.

catherwood

all this talk about faces always brings me back to the larger face on the left of center. Rather than being a symbolic match for the name of something, that feature is (or was) visible on the rock wall opposite the Cliff House. Priess took a picture of an area, gave the pic to JP, and the image appears in the montage painting. This is not an abstract connecting but is a visual confirmer for the area. Maybe it is nowhere near the final treasure site, but surely it is a marker along one path to it.
I have posted the comparison pics elsewhere, grabbed off the internet from someone’s vacation photos but without a year for when they were taken (prior to 2011). I have since returned to the spot myself and can say that the hillside has eroded. I can identify the place where the face used to be, but the features have melted. I can imagine what it must have looked like without decades of weathering, and I assume it was an exact match back then.
Call it a confirmer for the Great Highway, use it as an approach to Golden Gate Park’s west entrance, or just dismiss it as general San Francisco Bay Area scenery. Whatever. I still think of that specific “face” feature in the hillside as a better use of the painting than abstract symbolism of dubious silhouettes.
I once thought about using the gated arch in the painting to represent* either the
Sutro
Baths (which might have had such a doorway at one time in history) or a doorway-shaped hole which exists in the rocks of the Farallon Islands** out past Seal Rocks. Start out in the ocean (at the top of the page), work your way inland (past the “faces”), and end at GGP (in the middle of the page). It was an imaginary path.
*represent = similar to = symbolic of… all phrases I hate in riddles and puzzles.
**good image at
https://www.oceanicsociety.org/whale-watching/farallons
scroll down to photo by Roger Harris.

I would love to see more about this face! I don’t think I ever saw your comparison before. if you can find your old posts I would love to read/see them.

Goonie68

I do believe that the water tower in Cleveland (downtown area) is miles away from the Cultural Gardens, not sure you can see the tower from there? So the Cable car is almost like the water tower in Cleveland, miles away and in the downtown area, both parks are a bit far from the land marks. IMO

yes that is true, In Chicago and in Cleveland a methodology to get from the landmark to the park was included in the image.
this holds true for Milwaukee, Boston, St Augustine, Charleston, New Orleans and New York, In Roanoke, the method is in the verse, In Montreal, it is still up in the air.
The trouble is we only find the methodology works in SF if the landmark is golden gate park.
and we have to keep in mind that SF was supposed to be simple, so a good guess is it would follow the method of other simple ones, (Chicago/Cleveland)

maltedfalcon

I can’t argue with any of those but I will ask, if golden gate park is the finish and not the start, what in the image is the starting point.
ie the water tower, the transit building, city hall, the land near the window, the castillo, Fort Sumter, etc…

Start is at the top of the image…which I think is at the top of the rock wall of Huntington Falls…what else do you think those rock walls represent?

maltedfalcon

yes that is true, In Chicago and in Cleveland a methodology to get from the landmark to the park was included in the image.
this holds true for Milwaukee, Boston, St Augustine, Charleston, New Orleans and New York, In Roanoke, the method is in the verse, In Montreal, it is still up in the air.
The trouble is we only find the methodology works in SF if the landmark is golden gate park.
and we have to keep in mind that SF was supposed to be simple, so a good guess is it would follow the method of other simple ones, (Chicago/Cleveland)

Not so sure on the simple part LOL , So Chicago for instance would be Water tower to Bowman to loop. SF could be Cable car to Dragon’s head to….?

Is it possible that the verse for Chicago might’ve been attempted as a fit for SF? Where M and B are set in stone could’ve been perceived as rails set into the streets. Checking routes M or B could’ve been one of the challenges of applying the wrong verse to an image. Anyone agree/disagree?

maybe if M&B were set in asphalt

Well in Chicago Vermeers girl with pearl earring is a horrible match , she has a pearl earring, not a dangly one. she is facing the other way and looking back over her shoulder, the background is black. really not much of a match.
Compared to Grant on the 50$ bill…
Also grant points us to Grant park
In cleveland it looks like he based the image on several styles of equestrian statue. but c’mon say it with me. Rockefeller Centaur (a pun a new yorker couldn’t resist) points us to Rockefeller Park
In Chicago you start where you can match the view of the water tower and travel in the direction the portrait is looking N. Michigan Ave (heading left or south) go until you see something in the image and that is your sign to turn.
so basically you go until you see the bowman and turn into grant park.
In Cleveland you start where you can see the transit tower. its a square that circles counter clockwise. you have to follow the turns but only one street goes straight off the square, euclid, all the others you have to turn onto.
Now you go until you see something in the image, and that is Triangle Square, a Big sign on the corner of Ford (the logo was the same triangle that is in the picture, Turn left (thats the way the triangle points) and you are on ford ave.
Ford flows onto East ave . East ave (no longer does) but in 1980 drove right to the Columns.
so basically the shown methodology is a landmark, a path that only has turnoffs when shown by an image. to a park. Besides the two found casques this method has been shown to work hypothetically in most of the other cities.
As far as “DaVinci” glow – yes DaVinci is credited with coming up with this 500 years ago, but it wasn’t until the late 1990s and early 2000’s when people started writing articles about it that it became a thing that the average person would have had a chance to read about, remember these puzzles were created to be solved in the days before the internet. It’s a reach… especially when there are so many other goood things we can associate with the spheres.

Goonie68

Curious to know what people think this is? Majority say strawberry? But………

It’s a graphic representation of the two Speaker Towers facing each other in Aquatic Park.

Goldengate

Hey Rviewer1,
I’m guessing you’re talking about the cool illustrated map? When I get back to my home laptop I’ll dig around and see. Full credit where credit is due, that’s actually one Goonie found and contributed to one of the SF FB groups. I think he said his was 84. What’s interesting is that the map has been updated and is still available, but with new changes noted and illustrated in the same style — such as the Steinhart, De Young and California Science Center have been redrawn to look like they do now. I think you can the updated map by googling around. I’ll add the full 80s example later today if I can find it!

Thank you Goldengate and a shout out to Goonie for getting this map. I have been hitting google lately looking for maps like this one. I am going to start calling around to places like libraries for some.

I can’t remember the last time I was in one

Hey Rviewer1,
I’m guessing you’re talking about the cool illustrated map? When I get back to my home laptop I’ll dig around and see. Full credit where credit is due, that’s actually one Goonie found and contributed to one of the SF FB groups. I think he said his was 84. What’s interesting is that the map has been updated and is still available, but with new changes noted and illustrated in the same style — such as the Steinhart, De Young and California Science Center have been redrawn to look like they do now. I think you can the updated map by googling around. I’ll add the full 80s example later today if I can find it!
Thank you Goldengate and a shout out to Goonie for getting this map. I have been hitting google lately looking for maps like this one. I am going to start calling around to places like libraries for some. I can’t remember the last time I was in one.
Rviewer1, what area are you looking for? GGP or other?

It may look like a filbert

Choice

It may look like a filbert

did Josh sell you some “brownies”???

No, just gummies, miss that guy!

Choice

No, just gummies

you should share!

Goldengate

Gotcha. But to that same point, in Chicago the water tower did not have a windmill and the Spirit of the Great Lakes figure from the fountain did not have wings. In Cleveland the fountain was not hand sized chalice, etc. I think this is the same kind of thing… a clear reference (a shape resembling a strawberry where there’s a land mass called Strawberry Hill), but slightly masked by being blue. It seems to me that JJP created these images in a way that they would be recognizable with the bare eye, meant to be correlated with a location, but just obscured or masked enough to blend into the theme.
So to directly address your point, I think that it’s the shape of a strawberry more than anything else I can easily identify with a quick glance. The shape is in the middle of a large rectangle… just as Strawberry Hill is mentioned in every map and is the high point of Golden Gate Park. Just speaking for myself and my own theory, when added to the 18th & 20th avenue identifiers that contain between them crossover drive, the “stem” of the strawberry and several other interesting landmarks, it seems that the general area is being called out in several interesting ways.
To Gman’s point, I haven’t been there since the summer so am looking forward to walking that part of the park, including the wooded areas between Traverse Drive and the West side of Strawberry Hill.
Also, while just out of that 18th & 20th zone it’s interesting to me that the Chinese / Taiwanese pavilion on the island is COVERED in triratna symbols that look an awful lot like the three balls on her dress. Considering the theme of the puzzle that still seems one of the biggest hints to me — that’s the only of the symbols on her dress that I can directly physically link to something the park.

You make good points here GG, I was looking at this as more of a word play, I can certainly identify the shape resembling a strawberry, but changing the color turns it into something simple like berry (for me) Maybe berry, blue = blueberry,

Goldengate

And last, the man who translated the Japanese translation has communicated with group members here… I’ve read the note. His English is pretty damn good — and my friend in Japan (also a translator) told me he’s a legend in the translating and publishing world and he was the dean of a school dedicated to translation… so I’ll take his word for it that Preiss said “wood posts.”

Hi GG,
In regards to the high posts three line. If we are to take them as being wooden posts, do you have any thoughts on what this could be referring to at the GGP. I know it had always been widely seen as being Sutro Tower. But thats obviously out now given its not made of wood. Just curious if you have any ideas/thoughts on that.

all of the sudden out of nowhere prospector pops a Verse related link and completely destroyed the ambriance in the middle of GG and Durian’s debate,
follows by another unrelated Verse questions by bbi…
and this is a Image thread

bbi

Hi GG,
In regards to the high posts three line. If we are to take them as being wooden posts, do you have any thoughts on what this could be referring to at the GGP. I know it had always been widely seen as being Sutro Tower. But thats obviously out now given its not made of wood. Just curious if you have any ideas/thoughts on that.

Good question bbi!

Good question?
it’s off-topic and awfully wrong

Spiritr

all of the sudden out of nowhere prospector pops a Verse related link and completely destroyed the ambriance in the middle of GG and Durian’s debate,
follows by another unrelated Verse questions by bbi…
and this is a Image thread

Rules, schmules.

I am hoping this will open and it will show the book I saw for sale in the Eastern Sierras.
https://boredfeet.com/singles2/twaincal.php

Goldengate

After spending the past month shutting my mind off to Golden Gate Park theories to sincerely consider others’ hard-researched thoughts regarding other locations in relation to what we know about Cleveland and Chicago, I’m back to believing that this was intended to be a strawberry for Strawberry Hill. “Strawberry Hill” is listed very clearly on nearly every period map and sits in the center of the park — it’s a focal point.
Just looking at what we know about the Chicago and Cleveland images, details like this seem to be addressed in the same simple, yet slightly shrouded way: in Chicago: The fairy from the Spirit of the Lakes fountain, the bowman, the water tower, the fence. Cleveland: The pillars (front and back), the fountain, bas relief lion / water bowl, etc… all of these were recognizable without 1000x zooms and wondering if that one thing you think is an eye for months upon months only to realize it’s a pixel misprint. I”m more convinced than ever that the clues are right there, staring us in the face.
I’ll add one more piece to my theory about the sleeves with 18 and 20 blocks each representing 18th and 20th Avenues. What street runs BETWEEN 18th and 20th through the park? CROSSOVER Drive! The “lane” between those avenues include Crossover drive, the boathouse area on the Western edge of Stow lake which actually flares out like the strawberry stem, the western portion of Strawberry Hill itself… and the Prayerbook Cross. The whole “but first across” line I’d put in the same category as “rumble” in V5 as a primary verse hint.
Below are a few different images of that “zone.” I’m still refining a couple theories as to the spot, but to me, so much leads to this area (H/T to Goonie for the period tourist map). I urge everyone to put away Google maps for a bit. Find a real 1982 map, look at what Preiss and JJP actually looked at. Similarly, just for a day, untether yourselves from Google as a whole… read the actual book — look at paper maps… recite the verse out loud as they appeared. Tech helps, but it also hurts…. look at this puzzle as it was intended to be studied.
AND YES, I KNOW, nobody solved it then (save Chicago) so we should look at things in new ways… but I’ll be blunt… the book sold so terribly it never even warranted getting a second printing. So of the few souls that bought it back then in the early 80s… even fewer dug. That’s why these casques were not found back then — not because people weren’t using Google. There are greater numbers now and more resources… but hyper zooming on google maps and blowing up TINY illustrations from a trade paperback quality printing was not the way the puzzle was meant to be solved. If you can’t see it with the naked eye or without photoshop filters… it’s not significant to the puzzle. Also, do you really think Preiss was getting aerial photos in 1982 — they were not easy to find — certainly harder for any key searcher than Preiss himself — I just really doubt he went to those crazy lengths — if it was in 2000 maybe… but not 1982.
What if the Cleveland and Chicago puzzles were the hard ones? Remember BP himself refused to give any hints in the Japanese edition for the Boston image because he thought it would be too easy that way. I urge my fellow San Francisco searchers to take a day or so and think simple! Love to hear your thoughts.

Hey Goldengate,
That is a cool map. Could you send a link or post the whole map of GGP with that version? That would be greatly appreciated.

Goldengate

After spending the past month shutting my mind off to Golden Gate Park theories to sincerely consider others’ hard-researched thoughts regarding other locations in relation to what we know about Cleveland and Chicago, I’m back to believing that this was intended to be a strawberry for Strawberry Hill. “Strawberry Hill” is listed very clearly on nearly every period map and sits in the center of the park — it’s a focal point.
Just looking at what we know about the Chicago and Cleveland images, details like this seem to be addressed in the same simple, yet slightly shrouded way: in Chicago: The fairy from the Spirit of the Lakes
fountain
, the bowman, the water tower, the fence. Cleveland: The pillars (front and back), the
fountain
, bas relief lion / water bowl, etc… all of these were recognizable without 1000x zooms and wondering if that one thing you think is an eye for months upon months only to realize it’s a pixel misprint. I”m more convinced than ever that the clues are right there, staring us in the face.
I’ll add one more piece to my theory about the sleeves with 18 and 20 blocks each representing 18th and 20th Avenues. What street runs BETWEEN 18th and 20th through the park? CROSSOVER Drive! The “lane” between those avenues include Crossover drive, the boathouse area on the Western edge of Stow lake which actually flares out like the strawberry stem, the western portion of Strawberry Hill itself… and the Prayerbook Cross. The whole “but first across” line I’d put in the same category as “rumble” in V5 as a primary verse hint.
Below are a few different images of that “zone.” I’m still refining a couple theories as to the spot, but to me, so much leads to this area (H/T to Goonie for the period tourist map). I urge everyone to put away Google maps for a bit. Find a real 1982 map, look at what Preiss and JJP actually looked at. Similarly, just for a day, untether yourselves from Google as a whole… read the actual book — look at paper maps… recite the verse out loud as they appeared. Tech helps, but it also hurts…. look at this puzzle as it was intended to be studied.
AND YES, I KNOW, nobody solved it then (save Chicago) so we should look at things in new ways… but I’ll be blunt… the book sold so terribly it never even warranted getting a second printing. So of the few souls that bought it back then in the early 80s… even fewer dug. That’s why these casques were not found back then — not because people weren’t using Google. There are greater numbers now and more resources… but hyper zooming on google maps and blowing up TINY illustrations from a trade paperback quality printing was not the way the puzzle was meant to be solved. If you can’t see it with the naked eye or without photoshop filters… it’s not significant to the puzzle. Also, do you really think Preiss was getting aerial photos in 1982 — they were not easy to find — certainly harder for any key searcher than Preiss himself — I just really doubt he went to those crazy lengths — if it was in 2000 maybe… but not 1982.
What if the Cleveland and Chicago puzzles were the hard ones? Remember BP himself refused to give any hints in the Japanese edition for the Boston image because he thought it would be too easy that way. I urge my fellow San Francisco searchers to take a day or so and think simple! Love to hear your thoughts.

Hey Goldengate,
That is a cool map. Could you send a link or post the whole map of GGP with that version? That would be greatly appreciated.

Choice, per your request yesterday, this is the article I have
the original 1984 cut-outs of the Chronicle
another purposed plan used for the renovation. date unknown.
the most updated and official plan from SF Rec&Park Dept. *the original file was huge, pm me if you want it.
actual view from the top, on 7/2018. around…3:30 pm.
from the back observatory
from the east observatory, *the shadow

Durian

FWIW, these two shapes are very similar:
#Zoominginandlookingatshadowsagain

https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/zh. … 1216112515

Hey all,
New here.
Any idea why our image has a complete artist signature on it and the rest are either only initialed or have no visible artist identifer?

I am convinced the shapes are 3441 because of the Gh reflection. I think they are part of the coordinates. 34.41″ would be the last for of the longitude at the west end of the park. which incidentally is where those shapes are located on dragon map. He would have been using a quad map for this so some slight inaccuracy could be expected. 122 degrees 30’34.41″
thats my hypothesis anyways.

Spiritr

please explain, and what Verse/Verses should we use ?

And that’s another problem. Some are on verse #7 camp, some on #10 and some on #5. That makes 9 different combinations, at least (3 verses and 3 macro location, at least).
So for now I’ve paused matching the puzzle to any verse. I’ve been able to pinpoint a location with image clues alone. I’ve posted all my findings here previously. At this point after nearly 40 years I don’t think there’s any rush. I’ve volunteered Goonie to check out the location at his convenience and I’m sure he’ll let us all know of his findings as long as he finds it prudent!

I want to plug Golden Gate Park as the park to dig in. It is Huge. Try walking it looking for clues. It is overwhelming. I have discovered some really cool places in this park since I have been studying the Secret. I know how frustrating things must be for people who have been on this site for years and see newbies like me come up with some sort of solve that may have been talked about numerous times before. The issue is not that it hasn’t been talked about before but, I believe, there was more to be revealed. I have tried to read as much of the thread on Image 1 and Verse 7 that I could and I made a tentative list of the digs people have tried over the years. I don’t have a completed solve but I do have a beginning path. I want to start at with entering Golden Gate Park at Fulton and 37th at the Senior Center. The number 37 is in the hair of the woman in image 1.
I did start a post called Image 1/Verse 7 a few months ago.
First of all I don’t think the clues in the image lead to the Flagpole at the Senior Center. I do believe someone has dug there.
I do think the image helps to determine the general location, City and Park. I believe, Image 1 leads to Golden Gate Park. The shape of the Dragon panel on the woman’s dress is close to the park’s shape and the twists and turns in the image of the dragon’s tail give me the impression of all the twists and turns of the roads in the park.
The following list is some of my findings:
1. I believe the Senior Center is the place of entrance to Golden Gate Park for my beginning solve. Look at the image of the dragon from the Senior Center’s front door. There was an image posted on this site by drunknerds (I think). Some of the reasons I believe this is a good point to enter the park has been posted and gone over in Q4T and (PBworks). I have read over a lot of what is available on this site after my read of the book and formulating my own ideas. It was so exciting to match up what I saw about the image and the findings of others from this site.
2. Heading from the Senior Center into the park over to 36th Ave from there I would follow it to JFK Drive. (I also see the image of JFK’s profile in the rock and I also believed that image looks a lot like Lincoln.) Lincoln Way hugs almost the entire length of Golden Gate Park. I think looking at these two streets was important to the general location of the Treasure. Also, the way her arms are crossed looks like the split road of JFK Drive at 36th Avenue and not Crossover Drive. I will go into that later.
3. I check the Latitude and Longitude of the numbers found in the image located on he front panel of the dress — 37, 38 and 122 and 123. This is not new information I thought up — it has been mulled over by other people posting to this site. I was hooked when I saw this. This Latitude and Longitude is the general area of SF. AND: 37.769470 Latitude and -122.494530 Longitudes is in Golden Gate Park.
4. I also flip the image of the map, cut it in half and realized it is not a linear map. I didn’t look at it any longer like a step by step translation. It is an artistic interpretation of the map. Nothing in this image is linear to me. I see the Stow Lake, Strawberry Hill reference in the image but I believe it is just to help hint at Golden Gate Park. Not digging there anytime soon or the Falls. Some have dug there.
5. The Gh on the neck line gives a hint of the Great Highway. (Just a note here, I am not local to San Francisco, I always thought the Great Highway was Highway 1 — until I started doing this deep dark historical study of BP’s Treasure hunt and before I read all the posts about 19th Ave, I paired the “Aces High with the Gh in this image with verse.) Maybe that was a good thing. I don’t know if that makes sense. I hope it does.
6. At this point, I bought into many other important links posted by the great treasure hunters of Q4T like the rose, pearl, the clock/watch points to 6 like the 6 month of June and The Rock.
7. I also think the rocks in the image look like the rock formations out in the Pacific Ocean by the Cliff House. For some reason the images of the rocks in Image 1 give me the impression of all the cypress trees in Golden Gate Park.
8. The North lake on the map of Golden Gate Park looks like one of the hallowed out parts in the rocks from the image.
9. I also believe the line across the image behind the woman looks like it may be the Great Highway. There is also a horizontal line behind the set of foreground rocks as an end to the blue color which may represent water.
I have written down a lot more about this image and before I even linked the verse with it so I could eliminate things that didn’t work. I am just getting started on my solve and it has proved to be really complicated because I can’t just brush aside things I see.
The twists, turns and winding down the path to a solve takes time. There are so many details to iron out and clear up before I can put down a coherent group of thoughts to post. This is what I have so far but I did some research at the SF Library on Friday. This may or may not have helped. I hope this wasn’t too long and hard to follow.

Good luck!  I’m very interested in which verse you’ve decided fits best with those confirmers.  Hopefully not verses 5 or 7.
Yeah, i’m going to have to give you an outline of the image that im focused on.  You can see anything your minds eye wants to…right now it looks like a farmer / rancher dude.  I’m thinking this is a San Bruno.

Image1-verse7

The cartoon Lincoln/swollen JFK face just above the rose? I got the same initial impression as MF when I saw it (minus the Judy and the squaws). If it is a Lincoln profile, then it’s not the real Lincoln’s profile.
I’ll have to post up my photos from my trip to SF last May. I was looking at I1-V7 then. I was visiting friends for Bay To Breakers and six of us spent Saturday wandering from park to park looking from the picture for site confirmers. I was most hopeful that there would be something at Russian Hill Park.
Coming down the stairs there along Larkin St. you can see…
The backwards ‘Gh’ of the Ghiradelli sign (Maybe also ‘The air smells sweet’)
Gallileo high school (Education)
Alcatraz (Justice)
The three masts of the Balaclutha at the Hyde St. pier (High post are three)
It felt very much like “Hey! I can see a lot of confirmers all from one park!” Unfortunately, not a pole in sight and nothing from the image clicking other than ‘Gh’.

Choice

I think the framing was done well after the photo was taken for the book. Notice there’s a line frame around the painting in the book that is most likely under the matting. Unless it was added graphically later.
I think if it was done on canvas, it was stretched improperly, perhaps overstretched at that area. Also again it looks to me like it’s not standing straight compared to the frame. Need to rotate that too!

Hey, JJP? Your paintings are great and all, but we need to have a serious conversation about your choice in framing shops.

I wish we had a way of polling the members and get their opinion on which verse belongs to image 1. I’m curious to know if there’s a majority consensus.
The reversed Gh is the clue to the verse. It tells you the number of lines in the verse and the direction the verse should be read.
I think Hunter23 has similar idea with a twist. Posted in verse 7 thread.

Well, My Giant Pole is gone, but my giant step is there as is an object of twains attention
I thought the pole was removed in the early 90s
but I have now found a picture of the area without the pole, that could have been taken anytime after the 60s (based on the cars in the picture)
I am trying to get a firm date for the removal.
If the pole was removed prior to 1981 then you are most probably correct.

MaltedF, will you check out Grand View Park and see if something lines up to look like the Pole and Step?  I think you’re still distracted by GG Park.
I found a few good photos that shoe then GG bridge in the distance while standing at Grand View Park.  The barred gate’s size in the image matches the perspective size of GG.  I’d say that’s a good clue.  This hasn’t been altered in terms of resizing, it’s 1:1 book scan to photo and so it’s the only way to distinguish whether a perspective method like this is in play,
Nearby the Moraga Steps look very interesting (disregard the tiled mural, it’s recent).
About Coit Tower, I couldnt make it work., theres a long steps there but again im not convinced of its viability.

MF, I’m in the process of reading through most of Twain’s works as well. (Got them for free on my Kindle!)
At any rate….I think it’s gonna be something simple. Something that we’ll all do face-palms after.  However, that said, I don’t believe verse 7 goes with San Francisco–I believe it goes with Image 12–New York. The whole verse fits, even the Twain. I got the whole thing to work out to Battery Park at the tip of Manhattan. The giant pole is there–it’s the giant STEP I can’t determine, though I have a couple of possiblities.

P6 huh?  Welcome to the Sunshine State  8)

Choice

If you insist on GGP then maybe you should consider “Giant pole” as “Large polo” field and Giant “step” as horseshoe. This was suggested 12 yrs or so ago that may deserve a second look.
http://silverinsf.blogspot.com/2011/03/ … -pits.html
https://livingnewdeal.org/projects/gold … ncisco-ca/
I know the pits are completely across the park but that’s all I could come up with!

Thanks Choice

Choice

If you insist on GGP then maybe you should consider “Giant pole” as “Large polo” field and Giant “step” as horseshoe. This was suggested 12 yrs or so ago that may deserve a second look.
http://silverinsf.blogspot.com/2011/03/ … -pits.html
https://livingnewdeal.org/projects/gold … ncisco-ca/
I
know the pits are completely across the park but that’s all
I
could come up with!

Thanks Choice

Another interpretation
of
“sweet smell”:
Sweet!… Right on the nose!
Is that a pearl on dragon’s nose or a pimple?!

Another interpretation of “sweet smell”:
Sweet!… Right on the nose!
Is that a pearl on dragon’s nose or a pimple?!

Choice

Another interpretation
of
“sweet smell”:
Sweet!… Right on the nose!
Is that a pearl on dragon’s nose or a pimple?!

its a scan artifact. It’s not in the actual book.

Choice

Another interpretation of “sweet smell”:
Sweet!… Right on the nose!
Is that a pearl on dragon’s nose or a pimple?!

its a scan artifact. It’s not in the actual book.

Must be a bogus scan someone sent me.
I
wish someone could take a good iphone picture on tripod

Must be a bogus scan someone sent me. I wish someone could take a good iphone picture on tripod

Choice

Must be a bogus scan someone sent me.
I
wish someone could take a good iphone picture on tripod

Choice

Must be a bogus scan someone sent me. I wish someone could take a good iphone picture on tripod

Spiritr

Unknown

Unknown:
The role of this proof in history is the subject of much speculation. The underlying question is why Euclid did not use this proof, but invented another. One conjecture is that the proof by similar triangles involved a theory of proportions, a topic not discussed until later in the Elements, and that the theory of proportions needed further development at that time.

I noticed the proportions are very similar between the doors to the Exploratorium and the Sleeve squares, also the color is similar.  The Exploratorium door is in a stone wall and is located next to Bay St.  Included is the small lake shape that looks like it contains an inlet which implies a bay.  Perhaps this is similar to how the triangle in the sphere/circle might be a clue to go down Euclid St. in the Cleveland image.
more on the Euclid triangle (does it look equilateral?)
Euclid used a construction with compass method and two intersecting circles to proof that all angles were equal for an equilateral triangle:

Maltedfalcon.  I’m sorry I’ve been offensive towards you in the past.  I’m an abrasive personality.  You’ve done a good job raising questions and concerns while avoiding the blindnesses and pitfalls from deviating from the evidence.  I might continue to argue te validity of the evidence…so we will continue to disagree on much…anyways, lets find a casque.
Yeah, “eric’s here” in palindrome.
Let me ask you what you think about comparing the “dragons pearl” symbolism to the Greek Aegis as a form of protection?  Do you think the words “chaste, perfect as the silver moon” can mean “polished round and reflective”?  Does the subject of ‘reflection’ serve as both a shield from Medusa and that which The Thinker does at the Palace door (archway)?  Does the Athena nickname Pallus Athena serve as a tie to “Palace” as homonym similar to how “sweet air” might be “sugar heir”?  Lastly, do es a bench to sit upon represent the act of “reflection”?

erexere

Let me ask you what you think about comparing the “dragons pearl” symbolism to the Greek Aegis as a form of protection?  Do you think the words “chaste, perfect as the silver moon” can mean “polished round and reflective”?  Does the subject of ‘reflection’ serve as both a shield from Medusa and that which The Thinker does at the Palace door (archway)?  Does the Athena nickname Pallus Athena serve as a tie to “Palace” as homonym similar to how “sweet air” might be “sugar heir”?  Lastly, do es a bench to sit upon represent the act of “reflection”?

Are we still talking about the same book?

Egbert

Are we still talking about the same book?   :-/

I’m talking about Clash of the Titans.

josh alert

Durian

Hi all.
I
’ve been quiet for a while, but thought
I
’d share some new info
I
’ve found recently on the SF hunt. Many
of
you are probably familiar with my theory that the casque is buried in Aquatic Park. If not, you can check it out here:
https://thesecretsfsolution.blogspot.com/
At any rate,
I
’m beginning to feel pretty confident that my solution has a strong possibility
of
being correct, and in a couple
of
weeks
I
am going to visit SF in an attempt to re-create some
of
the photos
I
believe Preiss gave to JPP to create the SF image.
I
’m doing this instead
of
digging because Aquatic Park is federal park land, and getting permission to probe/dig is very unlikely due to the 1906 Antiquities Act, which protects designated federal parks and lands from being disturbed. But it’s my hope that if
I
can document an extremely strong case,
I
might convince somebody within the Park Service’s management to pull some strings and make a recovery possible.
Anyway,
I
’ve been searching around the Maritime Museum for site confirmers from the image.
I
believe the outline
of
the Maritime Museum is in the image, as well as the Ghirardelli clock tower, the cable car turnaround, Angel Island, Alcatraz, the East speaker tower, and a plaque memorializing the first European ship to enter San Francisco Bay.
I
believe the speaker tower is the giant pole. And
I
think the plaque—which is embedded on the surface
of
a boulder about 15 feet away from the speaker—is the giant step.
From the boulder you can see just about everything
I
think is included in the hunt, which is interesting because this is what Preiss’ daughters have said is the case for the New York puzzle. If this is the casque site,
I
think it’s also notable that Preiss chose this particular plaque, as it would seem to be in keeping with his immigration theme. By the way, the first ship entering the San Francisco Bay was Spanish, making an interesting cross-country book-end to the St. Augustine puzzle…
So, here is something new: in 1978 the wreckage
of
the Niantic—a 19th century sailing ship—was discovered when the Mark Twain plaza was being excavated. Some materials from the wreckage were recovered. This recovery was done quickly due to the construction
of
the plaza. Among the objects recovered were a piece
of
the ship’s hull and rudder. They are now at the Maritime Museum, and were likely a new and highly publicized display when Preiss visited for his work on The Secret.
I
think these two images speak for themselves:
And if you start looking at a number
of
these images, you can see where JPP probably got a lot
of
his inspiration for the jagged edges in the background
of
the painting, as well as the “cityscape” in the upper left
of
the “bay” and the “bricks” under the window at the top
of
the rock:
IMO, It is very apparent that the preponderance
of
evidence points to the casque being buried at Aquatic Park, and
I
believe it is at the plaque/boulder specifically.
I
will get more exact photos to match the image when
I
am on-site, but here is the giant pole:
And here is what the giant step looks like from the pole to the boulder:
Notice that in the SF image, this probable match for the boulder is clearly called out in texture and shape from the other parts
of
the rock formation. Notice too that the face with the plaque is depicted as facing a different direction from the side
of
the rock facing the speaker—just as in real life:
If this indeed is the casque site, notice also that it is depicted similarly to the casque sites in the Cleveland and Chicago puzzles—near the center
of
the image, not surrounded by the “blue glow,” and taking up about as much physical real estate in the image.
Also, it looks as if the rock might be in the image twice, called out by the break in the gold/black edge
of
the dress near the dragon’s snout. Admittedly, this is not a great photo, but
I
‘m pretty certain
I
‘ll be able to get a good photo match on=iste:
And finally, when
I
’m in SF
I
will test my theory that JPP inteneded the woman’s dress and the clock on the table to be both clocks and compasses (think the ying-yang symbol and duality). The mirroring
of
the woman’s pointing fingers and the pointing
of
the vines calls out 4 and 7 o’clock, and also tells us to look for something four from the east and seven from the west.
I
believe this is another reference to the Ghirardelli sign.
I
believe the woman’s arms are crossed to tell us that at the end
of
the puzzle we should be looking at this sign straight on, with its spelling forward, as opposed to when we started the puzzle behind the sign with its letters reversed. And
I
believe that if you are looking south from the dig site and you align yourself between the sign’s fourth letter from the east and the seventh letter from the west, it confirms you are in the right spot. Check out this photo, which a member
of
this board was good enough to share until
I
can get on site and take my own photos. Looks like the 4 and 7 (“r” and “a”) might be correct in real life:
Thoughts? Am
I
wasting my time going to San Francisco?

its not there. but you never wasting your time going to sf…so much to do!
i
have a picture from 1980
of
the maritime park, but not with me atm. ill post it for you (but its very clearly not there)….good luck! (as for your image matches
i
think many are quite weak).

Durian

Hi all. I’ve been quiet for a while, but thought I’d share some new info I’ve found recently on the SF hunt. Many of you are probably familiar with my theory that the casque is buried in Aquatic Park. If not, you can check it out here:
https://thesecretsfsolution.blogspot.com/
At any rate, I’m beginning to feel pretty confident that my solution has a strong possibility of being correct, and in a couple of weeks I am going to visit SF in an attempt to re-create some of the photos I believe Preiss gave to JPP to create the SF image. I’m doing this instead of digging because Aquatic Park is federal park land, and getting permission to probe/dig is very unlikely due to the 1906 Antiquities Act, which protects designated federal parks and lands from being disturbed. But it’s my hope that if I can document an extremely strong case, I might convince somebody within the Park Service’s management to pull some strings and make a recovery possible.
Anyway, I’ve been searching around the Maritime Museum for site confirmers from the image. I believe the outline of the Maritime Museum is in the image, as well as the Ghirardelli clock tower, the cable car turnaround, Angel Island, Alcatraz, the East speaker tower, and a plaque memorializing the first European ship to enter San Francisco Bay. I believe the speaker tower is the giant pole. And I think the plaque—which is embedded on the surface of a boulder about 15 feet away from the speaker—is the giant step.
From the boulder you can see just about everything I think is included in the hunt, which is interesting because this is what Preiss’ daughters have said is the case for the New York puzzle. If this is the casque site, I think it’s also notable that Preiss chose this particular plaque, as it would seem to be in keeping with his immigration theme. By the way, the first ship entering the San Francisco Bay was Spanish, making an interesting cross-country book-end to the St. Augustine puzzle…
So, here is something new: in 1978 the wreckage of the Niantic—a 19th century sailing ship—was discovered when the Mark Twain plaza was being excavated. Some materials from the wreckage were recovered. This recovery was done quickly due to the construction of the plaza. Among the objects recovered were a piece of the ship’s hull and rudder. They are now at the Maritime Museum, and were likely a new and highly publicized display when Preiss visited for his work on The Secret. I think these two images speak for themselves:
And if you start looking at a number of these images, you can see where JPP probably got a lot of his inspiration for the jagged edges in the background of the painting, as well as the “cityscape” in the upper left of the “bay” and the “bricks” under the window at the top of the rock:
IMO, It is very apparent that the preponderance of evidence points to the casque being buried at Aquatic Park, and I believe it is at the plaque/boulder specifically. I will get more exact photos to match the image when I am on-site, but here is the giant pole:
And here is what the giant step looks like from the pole to the boulder:
Notice that in the SF image, this probable match for the boulder is clearly called out in texture and shape from the other parts of the rock formation. Notice too that the face with the plaque is depicted as facing a different direction from the side of the rock facing the speaker—just as in real life:
If this indeed is the casque site, notice also that it is depicted similarly to the casque sites in the Cleveland and Chicago puzzles—near the center of the image, not surrounded by the “blue glow,” and taking up about as much physical real estate in the image.
Also, it looks as if the rock might be in the image twice, called out by the break in the gold/black edge of the dress near the dragon’s snout. Admittedly, this is not a great photo, but I’m pretty certain I’ll be able to get a good photo match on=iste:
And finally, when I’m in SF I will test my theory that JPP inteneded the woman’s dress and the clock on the table to be both clocks and compasses (think the ying-yang symbol and duality). The mirroring of the woman’s pointing fingers and the pointing of the vines calls out 4 and 7 o’clock, and also tells us to look for something four from the east and seven from the west. I believe this is another reference to the Ghirardelli sign. I believe the woman’s arms are crossed to tell us that at the end of the puzzle we should be looking at this sign straight on, with its spelling forward, as opposed to when we started the puzzle behind the sign with its letters reversed. And I believe that if you are looking south from the dig site and you align yourself between the sign’s fourth letter from the east and the seventh letter from the west, it confirms you are in the right spot. Check out this photo, which a member of this board was good enough to share until I can get on site and take my own photos. Looks like the 4 and 7 (“r” and “a”) might be correct in real life:
Thoughts? Am I wasting my time going to San Francisco?

its not there. but you never wasting your time going to sf…so much to do! i have a picture from 1980 of the maritime park, but not with me atm. ill post it for you (but its very clearly not there)….good luck! (as for your image matches i think many are quite weak).

Problem with this puzzle is it’s sooo vague that you could come up with dozens
of
logical solutions.
Take the Coit tower for example; you can interpret the clock on the table with it’s shadow as a sundial. The roundabout as the dial with the tower or Columbus statue as the gnomon. Then the time on the clock would be noon casting straight shadow towards the red X.
The clock also could be the elevator dial
of
the tower pointing to the top. Blue jeannie lamp bay map also present. Spiral staircase also present.
As to Mark Twain’s attention connection to Columbus, Twain loved piloting and Columbus is arguably the most famous boat pilot.
Frane
of
the painting:

Problem with this puzzle is it’s sooo vague that you could come up with dozens of logical solutions.
Take the Coit tower for example; you can interpret the clock on the table with it’s shadow as a sundial. The roundabout as the dial with the tower or Columbus statue as the gnomon. Then the time on the clock would be noon casting straight shadow towards the red X.
The clock also could be the elevator dial of the tower pointing to the top. Blue jeannie lamp bay map also present. Spiral staircase also present.
As to Mark Twain’s attention connection to Columbus, Twain loved piloting and Columbus is arguably the most famous boat pilot.
Frane of the painting:

Choice

Dragon’s Gate —> Columbus —> Lombard —> Pioneer

I
‘m impressed, surprisingly impressed,
with the wrong verse, wrong interpretation on practically everything, and you don’t even know how to pick out the things that matters in the image
yet you came up with the correct location in order.
wow,
I
‘m speechless at the moment….

Choice

Dragon’s Gate —> Columbus —> Lombard —> Pioneer

I’m impressed, surprisingly impressed,
with the wrong verse, wrong interpretation on practically everything, and you don’t even know how to pick out the things that matters in the image
yet you came up with the correct location in order.
wow, I’m speechless at the moment….

Oh yes, another invaluable comment.
Shouldn’t you be digging another hole at the zoo?
I
hear the air smells very sweet there around this time
of
the year.

Oh yes, another invaluable comment.
Shouldn’t you be digging another hole at the zoo? I hear the air smells very sweet there around this time of the year.

Durian

Ok, where was it?

storage and then being ‘curated’ – a fancy word for preserving and then setting it up for display. it would have needed to be stabilized and then preserved. so it probably spent quite a lot
of
time in a tank filled with chemicals.
I
have no idea where that was done. but the niantic display was put in in 99

Durian

Ok, where was it?

storage and then being ‘curated’ – a fancy word for preserving and then setting it up for display. it would have needed to be stabilized and then preserved. so it probably spent quite a lot of time in a tank filled with chemicals.
I have no idea where that was done. but the niantic display was put in in 99

Durian

Well according to the NPS:
On exhibit this fall in the museum building at the foot
of
Polk Street will be the painting, together with a detailed diorama
of
the ship on the Gold Rush waterfront
of
1849,
and her actual stern and rudder — which this museum recovered in 1978
when, as the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper put it, “A Gold Rush Ship Is Dug Up Downtown.”
So they had it in 1978 somewhere on site, and it really looks like Preiss had access to it.
https://www.nps.gov/safr/learn/historyc … inting.htm

While
I
agree that it was remotely possbile regarding the timeline, this seems like a very vague clue that many would have no idea about, especially given the short time line.
I
have to agree with MF.

Durian

Well according to the NPS:
On exhibit this fall in the museum building at the foot of Polk Street will be the painting, together with a detailed diorama of the ship on the Gold Rush waterfront of 1849,
and her actual stern and rudder — which this museum recovered in 1978
when, as the San Francisco Chronicle newspaper put it, “A Gold Rush Ship Is Dug Up Downtown.”
So they had it in 1978 somewhere on site, and it really looks like Preiss had access to it.
https://www.nps.gov/safr/learn/historyc … inting.htm

While I agree that it was remotely possbile regarding the timeline, this seems like a very vague clue that many would have no idea about, especially given the short time line. I have to agree with MF.

Also hard to base all this on a little model

Durian

[/
i
]
So they had it in 1978 somewhere on site, and it really looks like Preiss had access to it.

I
seriously don’t think that for the first several years out
of
the ground, it looked anything like the presentable relic you see in the museum now
For instance the Hunley was made
of
metal not wood and it was pulled out
of
the ocean and it was immediately put into a tank
of
water where it was treated for 7 years.
The vasa when it was recovered had to be constantly irrigated to keep it from drying out.
the niantic was excavated from mud it would have had the same problems.

Choice

Oh yes, another invaluable comment.
Shouldn’t you be digging another hole at the zoo?
I
hear the air smells very sweet there around this time
of
the year.

huh? me? digging hole at the zoo???
my first dig was far far away from the zoo, and
I
am still waiting on my second dig,
I
got my permitted reference number from SFRP already, but the guy
I
hired is still waiting for his C-27….

Durian

So they had it in 1978 somewhere on site, and it really looks like Preiss had access to it.

I seriously don’t think that for the first several years out of the ground, it looked anything like the presentable relic you see in the museum now
For instance the Hunley was made of metal not wood and it was pulled out of the ocean and it was immediately put into a tank of water where it was treated for 7 years.
The vasa when it was recovered had to be constantly irrigated to keep it from drying out.
the niantic was excavated from mud it would have had the same problems.

Choice

Oh yes, another invaluable comment.
Shouldn’t you be digging another hole at the zoo? I hear the air smells very sweet there around this time of the year.

huh? me? digging hole at the zoo???
my first dig was far far away from the zoo, and I am still waiting on my second dig, I got my permitted reference number from SFRP already, but the guy I hired is still waiting for his C-27….

Durian, great info and
I
like the image matches…lots
of
solid possibilites here. Hopefully when you visit you will be able to come up with even more solid info when you have boots on the ground. A whole different world pops up into your face when you are actually on the grounds you search. Best
of
luck.

Durian, great info and I like the image matches…lots of solid possibilites here. Hopefully when you visit you will be able to come up with even more solid info when you have boots on the ground. A whole different world pops up into your face when you are actually on the grounds you search. Best of luck.

Durian, you proposed this some 4 month ago. A simple link would’ve sufficed.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=770&start=2196

Rviewer1

I like the Filbert Street Stairs as a Giant Step to Coit Tower.

Well, if you consider the tower as the giant pole then a ‘giant’ becomes a unit of distance i.e. 1 giant or 1 yard.
Do you have a solution for 3 posts?

Has anyone probed the red X area?

Choice

Has anyone probed the red X area?

Not sure, but what leads you there?

gManTexas

Not sure, but what leads you there?

I explained most of this before so sorry for redundancy.
Dragon’s Gate —> Columbus —> Lombard —> Pioneer

Dragon’s Gate —> Columbus —> Lombard —> Pioneer
Stonewall= dragon in painting, door=gate
Running north but 1st across = Running diagonally
In the jewel’s direction = to the east (NYC)
Is an object Of Twain’s attention = Is an object 12′ standing = statue of Columbus. So:
Running diagonally is Columbus
Windy dragon is Lombard st. It’s nose points to a hill, Telegraph perhaps

Dragon’s Gate —> Columbus —> Lombard —> Pioneer
Stonewall= dragon in painting, door=gate
Running
north but 1st across =
Running
diagonally
In the jewel’s direction = to the east (NYC)
Is an object Of Twain’s attention = Is an object 12′ standing = statue of Columbus. So:
Running
diagonally is Columbus
Windy dragon is Lombard st. It’s nose points to a hill, Telegraph perhaps

Now for a shoe-horned Not far away High posts are three (word substitution/play):
Not far away = near
high = north
posts = post st.
3 blocks north of Post street is Pine Street
So high posts are three = Pine
A simple substitution and you get ‘near pine’ or ‘pine near’, sounds like Pioneer

I also covered the “counter clockwise-running clock” before.
The turn-about around the statue, of course runs counter clockwise.
The red X is about the same distance from the structure as the height of the Coit.
Justice, Alcatraz is clearly visible.
Education, all the murals

I also covered the “
counter
clockwise
–
running
clock” before.
The turn-about around the statue, of course runs
counter
clockwise
.
The red X is about the same distance from the structure as the height of the Coit.
Justice, Alcatraz is clearly visible.
Education, all the murals

Choice

Dragon’s Gate —> Columbus —> Lombard —> Pioneer
Stonewall= dragon in painting, door=gate
Running north but 1st across = Running diagonally
In the jewel’s direction = to the east (NYC)
Is an object Of Twain’s attention = Is an object 12′ standing = statue of Columbus. So:
Running diagonally is Columbus
Windy dragon is Lombard st. It’s nose points to a hill, Telegraph perhaps

I’m following you, but can you explain the Twain and Columbus connection?

Choice

Dragon’s Gate —> Columbus —> Lombard —> Pioneer
Stonewall= dragon in painting, door=gate
Running
north but 1st across =
Running
diagonally
In the jewel’s direction = to the east (NYC)
Is an object Of Twain’s attention = Is an object 12′ standing = statue of Columbus. So:
Running
diagonally is Columbus
Windy dragon is Lombard st. It’s nose points to a hill, Telegraph perhaps

I’m following you, but can you explain the Twain and Columbus connection?

Literal meaning of mark twain is 12′
Statue of Columbus is 12′ tall
Attention, is military command to stand straight
“Mark Twain” (meaning “Mark number two”) was a Mississippi River term: the second mark on the line that measured depth signified two fathoms, or twelve feet—safe depth for the steamboat. In 1857, at the age of twenty-one, he became a “cub” steamboat pilot.

Choice

Literal meaning of mark twain is 12′
Statue of Columbus is 12′ tall
Attention, is military command to stand straight
“Mark Twain” (meaning “Mark number two”) was a Mississippi River term: the second mark on the line that measured depth signified two fathoms, or twelve feet—safe depth for the steamboat. In 1857, at the age of twenty-one, he became a “cub” steamboat pilot.

So, you are saying that the Columbus statue:
Is an object
Of Twain’s attention
Twain’s is possessive as written. This would imply that Twain (presumably Mark) would have been interested in it. I’m having a bit of a hard time making this leap to Columbus just by virtue of the statue being 12 feet tall.

Choice

Yes hope it’s not too wet and cold in Dec.
Harigawa Garden area is nice!

It never rains in California.

prospector

It never rains in California.

I think that refers to desert south only!