Does anyone else feel that, besides the dragon vaguely looking like Lombard St or GGP or the dragon in front of the GGP senior center, Image 1 has less strong location matches than the other images? There’s no strong landmark or maps matches.

this “path” could be just a path, without names, and there’s a few up there.
I don’t think this 58 bus route existed back in 1980, only bus line that could get you up there is local muni 39.

Spiritr

may I ask who is “Matte” in the podcast?

Matt is maltedfalcon

burnstyle

Matt is maltedfalcon

maltedfalcon

Well except the iconic image isnt hidden. its obvious in the paintings
and the dragon (II am assuming thats lombard) why is it in the middle of golden gate park? can you show the path. with the turnings called out in the image.
we can do that in chicago and cleveland and st augustine and charleston etc etc…

By “hidden”, I meant the proposed thing I posted, a possible image of the Coit Tower concealed in the shadows to the left of the rose.
The interpretations of the verse are literally all over the place. I wasn’t posting a complete solve, I was just suggesting there’s enough to use the Coit Tower and a cable car turntable as a starting point and a waypoint.
Putting the shape of Lombard street on the image of GGP? It doesn’t mean that it has to be taken literally as being inside the park… And Lombard is also part of the cable car system.

If an iconic building is a start point for the path, and using my proposed hidden image of the Coit Tower in the shadows to the left of the rose (the squared-off base is immediately to the rose’s left), and then maybe going by Lombard Street (also iconic) to the cable car turntable at Hyde & Beach (right near Ghirardelli Square, represented by the round table with an arguable outline of a cable car on the table leg, and the image of a cable car bell as the winder on the stem of the watch), does that give a plausible enough start to a path in SF that ends up in GGP somewhere?
At least it means the avid hunter can ride the cable cars to investigate!

Unknown

Unknown:
I was just suggesting there’s enough to use the Coit Tower and a cable car turntable as a starting point and a waypoint.

You can’t just use arbitrary connections to make arbitrary connections because they suit your pre-conceived notions. Apparently there is a formula for where to start, where to turn, and where to stop. Unfortunately, only Matt seems to know what this formula (in its entirety) is, and he’s not sharing.
By the way Matt, it’s “kill it with an ax”, not “beat it with a stick”. But thanks for the shout-out.

Euhirudinea

Unfortunately, only Matt seems to know what this formula (in its entirety) is, and he’s not sharing.

Lets see, I’ve done two podcasts about it.
I have started an entire thread about it, years ago.
I’ve posted illustrated maps (here I will repost them below… for you)
I have explained it on Q4t and FB and The wiki (admittedly the sysadmin at the wiki kept taking it down, because it caused you to leave Golden Gate Park.)
But one more time so you can take an axe to it… I will try to use small words.
There is in most images, an Iconic image. (in the images without an iconic image, the iconic “image” is called out in the verse)
Start at the icon.
move down the road the icon is on keep going straight(or follow the major flow of traffic) (i.e Cleveland is on a Square you could keep going counterclockwise around the square forever or you can peel off on the biggest street Euclid)
Keep going until you find /see something that is in the image.
Turn there. (its possible the alignment of the thing you see in the image shows you which way to turn, but there is not enough data to prove that yet.)
in Chicago you turn at the Bowman he faces left you turn left
In Cleveland you go down Euclid to you come to Triangle Plaza (the sign in the 80s matched the triangle on the sphere) , it points left, go left.
In Chicago the verse has kicked in by then so follow the verse you are in the park where the casque is…
in Clevland you turn onto ford, but it dumps straight on to east… and then enters the horseshoe curve that takes you around shows you to ignore the other turns and stay on East Dr. This takes you straight to the curved road by the columns. You are then at the park and the verse takes over.
In San Francisco our obvious iconic image is golden gate park. there are over 200 ways out of the park. which one could it be? well she is pointing at 43 but if you reverse the image, the 34th.
34th goes straight up the hill to lincoln park (and the lincoln image calls out you have arrived. then the verse takes over.
I also believe the methodology migrates from iconic image in the image with the final clues in the verse – to- iconic image in the verse with final clues in the image. and as they get more difficult it changes from one to the other.
Simple Logical and consistent. unlike the slow spill

Kalessin

By “hidden”, I meant the proposed thing I posted, a possible image of the Coit Tower concealed in the shadows to the left of the rose.
The interpretations of the verse are literally all over the place. I wasn’t posting a complete solve, I was just suggesting there’s enough to use the Coit Tower and a cable car turntable as a starting point and a waypoint.
Putting the shape of Lombard street on the image of GGP? It doesn’t mean that it has to be taken literally as being inside the park… And Lombard is also part of the cable car system.

Of course you are correct in that we just don’t know I was explaining how I think it works so that a concealed in the shadows image would not count as an iconic image obviously placed in the painting.
And yes the cable cars cross lombard (twice) but I really would not count Lombard as any part of the cable car system. it runs perpendicular to the the system….

Kalessin

If an iconic building is a start point for the path, and using my proposed hidden image of the Coit Tower in the shadows to the left of the rose (the squared-off base is immediately to the rose’s left), and then maybe going by Lombard Street (also iconic) to the cable car turntable at Hyde & Beach (right near Ghirardelli Square, represented by the round table with an arguable outline of a cable car on the table leg, and the image of a cable car bell as the winder on the stem of the watch), does that give a plausible enough start to a path in SF that ends up in GGP somewhere?
At least it means the avid hunter can ride the cable cars to investigate!

Well except the iconic image isnt hidden. its obvious in the paintings
and the dragon (II am assuming thats lombard) why is it in the middle of golden gate park? can you show the path. with the turnings called out in the image.
we can do that in chicago and cleveland and st augustine and charleston etc etc…

Euhirudinea

You can’t just use arbitrary connections to make arbitrary connections because they suit your pre-conceived notions. Apparently there is a formula for where to start, where to turn, and where to stop. Unfortunately, only Matt seems to know what this formula (in its entirety) is, and he’s not sharing.
By the way Matt, it’s “kill it with an ax”, not “beat it with a stick”. But thanks for the shout-out.

Really, I have no preconceived notions about the SF puzzle; I also don’t mind having what I come up with called wrong. I’ve visited the city a few times, but I’m not a resident and don’t have the budget to travel there for digs, and I haven’t found any clues other than some small things in the image that people hadn’t noted before.
I don’t know anyone else’s formula, so I’m reduced to guessing on my own.
The start of a possible path in my guess was Coit Tower –> Lombard St coming off of Telegraph Hill –> Cable car stop at Lombard & Hyde, ride to the turntable at Powell & Hyde, which is right by Ghirardelli Square. Pretty long walk, though.

Unknown

Unknown:
Simple Logical and consistent…

Well, if that’s true, we should see a significant increase in the number of dig permits requested for Legion, and a significant decrease in the number of dig permits requested for all the other parks in San Francisco, including GGP.

Euhirudinea

Well, if that’s true, we should see a significant increase in the number of dig permits requested for Legion, and a significant decrease in the number of dig permits requested for all the other parks in San Francisco, including GGP.

Yes I certainly hope so, I would love to see the SF casque found…

Unknown

Unknown:
I don’t know Matt’s formula either

Now you do Kalessin. I have tried to make it work across the puzzle (which I freely admit is a bias on my part), and I have had no luck without so many modifications that it became essentially worthless, especially for the cities where there are a lot of parks from which to choose. Perhaps you (and anyone else who is reading this) will find it more useful. Good luck.

Euhirudinea

, especially for the cities where there are a lot of parks from which to choose.

Oh and it doesn’t necessarily lead to a “Park” it just leads to the area the casque was buried.

Matt when will you come to the bay again? Since you have the actual book, I was hoping maybe we can meet up and I just want to take a look at it.

may I ask who is “Matte” in the podcast?

While I can see the firehose nozzle, it immediately reminded me of a metal Chinese garden lantern.  I’ve looked for an image of the ones that I’ve seen, but I can’t find the exact one.  I’d look for a Chinese garden in the area.
Similar to this, but less ornate and made of metal —
http://www.bonsaiinformation.com/Potsfo … rn%201.jpg

While
I
can see the firehose nozzle, it immediately reminded me
of
a metal Chinese garden lantern.
I
‘ve looked for an image
of
the ones that
I
‘ve seen, but
I
can’t find the exact one.
I
‘d look for a Chinese garden in the area.
Similar to this, but less ornate and made
of
metal —
http://www.bonsaiinformation.com/Potsfo … rn%201.jpg

There really aren’t any Chinese gardens in the area now, I’m afraid.  There are quite a few gardens of different types, but none with lamps or stands or whatever that looked like this table.  I had a photocopy of the image with me while I was on Telegraph Hill, and I couldn’t find anything like it despite searching for it specifically.  A firehose would be a great match, but I’d have to see one that came from the era before I signed on to that theory.

There really aren’t any Chinese gardens in the area now,
I
‘m afraid.  There are quite a few gardens
of
different types, but none with lamps or stands or whatever that looked like this table.
I
had a photocopy
of
the image with me while
I
was on Telegraph Hill, and
I
couldn’t find anything like it despite searching for it specifically.  A firehose would be a great match, but
I
‘d have to see one that came from the era before
I
signed on to that theory.

The table and the mountains/water ARE driving me crazy.  I’m back from my trip and will have more pictures posted soon, but I freely admit I have no plausible explanation for the following things:
1.  the table
2.  the weird shapes in the mountans
3.  the “object of Twain’s attention,” specifically
4.  the weird glyphs in the bottom 1/3 of the woman’s tabard.
Other than that, I think I can explain everything with the solution I’ve given.

The table and the mountains/water ARE driving me crazy.
I
‘m back from my trip and will have more pictures posted soon, but
I
freely admit
I
have no plausible explanation for the following things:
1.  the table
2.  the weird shapes in the mountans
3.  the “object
of
Twain’s attention,” specifically
4.  the weird glyphs in the bottom 1/3
of
the woman’s tabard.
Other than that,
I
think
I
can explain everything with the solution
I
‘ve given.

I believe it is just another reference to Ellie Coit which confirms Coit Tower.  Although, if that were the case, we may need another “outline” in this P for an actual building in the area.  Who knows anymore….. lol

I
believe it is just another reference to Ellie Coit which confirms Coit Tower.  Although, if that were the case, we may need another “outline” in this P for an actual building in the area.  Who knows anymore….. lol

bclews

While I can see the firehose nozzle, it immediately reminded me of a metal Chinese garden lantern.  I’ve looked for an image of the ones that I’ve seen, but I can’t find the exact one.  I’d look for a Chinese garden in the area.
Similar to this, but less ornate and made of metal —
http://www.bonsaiinformation.com/Potsfo … rn%201.jpg

just to keep the GG Park – Coit Tower tug of war going, I’m going to add another tug in the GG Park direction…
kind of like this one? (bottom right on link – its Japanese though)
http://www.lightight.com/GGP/mem_images/Mem3P11.html

bclews

While
I
can see the firehose nozzle, it immediately reminded me
of
a metal Chinese garden lantern.
I
‘ve looked for an image
of
the ones that
I
‘ve seen, but
I
can’t find the exact one.
I
‘d look for a Chinese garden in the area.
Similar to this, but less ornate and made
of
metal —
http://www.bonsaiinformation.com/Potsfo … rn%201.jpg

just to keep the GG Park – Coit Tower tug
of
war going,
I
‘m going to add another tug in the GG Park direction…
kind
of
like this one? (bottom right on link – its Japanese though)
http://www.lightight.com/GGP/mem_images/Mem3P11.html

still think table is a firehose

Some fun stuff:
• 11 half moons take me to the Port of San Francisco (ferry building) at the seawall; A 3+ mile stone wall that stretches from Fisherman’s Wharf to Mission Creek. The main building entrance consists of 3 large ½ moon windows, 2 smaller ones and 2 on the sides of the portico. From perspective of a person standing at the front center of the entrance, near top of the clock tower are 4 small globes (8 total but 4 visible). This ferry building is really a giant, 2 football field long atrium.
• A fun factoid: Element with 11 electrons (moons) is sodium, symbol NA that stands for Natrium. N atrium sounds like an atrium!
https://www.sfgate.com/news/article/Ren … 748839.php
A drone shot of the building:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xSOhmh8IKV4
Interesting video of old SF:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YaPlVOpfVk4

Choice

Simpler Yin Yang in the neighborhood would be the Ghirardelli Mermaids fountain. They sit in Yin Yang position.
Yin Yang is supposed to be a couple of gold-fish chasing tail. Fish… Mermaids.

Yin and Yang has to do with dark & bright, negative & positive. The mermaid fountain may have that shape to you but I do not go buy it and I cannot see it from my dig spot in National Maritime Park.

Choice

Simpler Yin Yang in the neighborhood would be the Ghirardelli Mermaids
fountain
. They sit in Yin Yang position.
Yin Yang is supposed to be a couple of gold-fish chasing tail. Fish… Mermaids.

Yin and Yang has to do with dark & bright, negative & positive. The mermaid
fountain
may have that shape to you but I do not go buy it and I cannot see it from my dig spot in National Maritime Park.

Choice

I think it would be taking it too far to expect the searchers walk around town with some sort of listening device or Geiger-counter hunting snipe.

Are you serious?
When did anyone suggest you’d have to walk around town with a radio? The hint provided by Preiss via the Japanese translator in the additional hint section that only appears in the Japanese version of the book is saying you should be looking for a radio broadcast tower (or some other similar type source that produces a “sound” requiring mechanical assistance of some sort to hear with the human ear) near “ace is high”, not that you literally need to tune into a specific radio broadcast, or actually “hear” anything, or anything of the sort.

If that was BP’s attempt at hinting a clue without giving away anything then he didn’t do a good job. He could’ve just said look at a radio tower.

lol

Choice

If that was BP’s attempt at hinting a clue without giving away anything then he didn’t do a good job. He could’ve just said look at a radio tower.

I would recommend what GG said above. Check out the hints from the Japanese version, either transcribed in the Clues in the Book thread or the audio link burnstyle posted. There is a lot of good, new information to be had. I don’t have much constructive to offer on the ‘parrots on telegraph hill’ angle.
Just an example: The Japanese hint for the Chicago verse says “M and B are the names of famous composers”, so I’m pretty sure it’s not parrots and it’s probably a broadcast mechanism of some sort).

there is a parrot in the painting, so they are def referenced, its in the upper right portion of the rocks to the right of junipero serra.

Goldengate

…or did you sell ’em for weed?

No need to insult weed in this thread.

Unknown

Unknown:
I often post really intricate solves that don’t narrow down a dig spot, as satire.

What a coincidence. I read every long, intricate solve that doesn’t narrow down to a dig spot (and even some that do) as satire. I call it “cornelling because contrary to popular belief, I do have a sense of humor.

Scrappy929

6526
Thoughts?

Lets see. I go with the assumption that numbers represent the order of lines in the verse.
From top, 38, 3 is on top of 8 in the painting.
37, 7 is on top of 3.
So this makes the order of lines in the verse 7,3,8,
Then you have 6,5,2.
So it makes the verse:
1 At stone wall’s door The air smells sweet
4 Sounds from the sky Near ace is high
6 Is an object Of Twain’s attention
5 Running north, but first across In jewel’s direction
2 Not far away High posts are three
7 Giant pole Giant step
3 Education and Justice For all to see
8 To the place The casque is kept.

Choice

Lets see. I go with the assumption that numbers represent the order of lines in the verse.
From top, 38, 3 is on top of 8 in the painting.
37, 7 is on top of 3.
So this makes the order of lines in the verse 7,3,8,
Then you have 6,5,2.
So it makes the verse:
1 At stone wall’s door The air smells sweet
4 Sounds from the sky Near ace is high
6 Is an object Of Twain’s attention
5 Running north, but first across In jewel’s direction
2 Not far away High posts are three
7 Giant pole Giant step
3 Education and Justice For all to see
8 To the place The casque is kept.

DrunkNerds parachute account spotted.

Continuing on Aquatic park thread, at the west corner of the park is the Fort Mason tunnel:
https://tinyurl.com/ydfsp96b
Walking even further northward is the black point fire station:
https://tinyurl.com/yapw8euk
Does anyone know what this building was in the 70’s? 80’s? When was the smoke stack taken down?
In the old pictures it used to have a smoke stack. Here’s a picture from 50’s or 60’s
and earlier pictures from SF library:
https://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfp … A-6697.jpg
https://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfp … A-6744.jpg
https://webbie1.sfpl.org/multimedia/sfp … A-6724.jpg

Unknown

Unknown:
DrunkNerds parachute account spotted.

The force was strong with that one. It would be a pity if he went over to the dark side.

I’m new in here. Someone should explain the politics and drama in here to me. Woooooshh…. over my head.

Choice

I’m new in here. Someone should explain the politics and drama in here to me. Woooooshh…. over my head.

I often post really intricate solves that don’t narrow down a dig spot, as satire. Because, why would Preiss make a really intricate puzzle to lead to a huge area? Dude just ran around 12 cities in 18 months for a fun book with his friends, the 2 correct solves have had a chain of directions that narrow down the location, and not a Gordian knot of logic that just points the solver into another huge area. So I often find it funny to post a really specific sequence of logic that ends with some huge and bizarre area: see my solve of puzzle nine that very obviously leads to Antarctica. Somewhere in Antarctica. Probably near the center.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=737&hilit=architect&start=1920
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=737&hilit=architect&start=1935

drunknerds

I often post really intricate solves that don’t narrow down a dig spot, as satire. Because, why would Preiss make a really intricate puzzle to lead to a huge area? Dude just ran around 12 cities in 18 months for a fun book with his friends, the 2 correct solves have had a chain of directions that narrow down the location, and not a Gordian knot of logic that just points the solver into another huge area. So I often find it funny to post a really specific sequence of logic that ends with some huge and bizarre area: see my solve of puzzle nine that very obviously leads to Antarctica. Somewhere in Antarctica. Probably near the center.

You’re a Gordian knot.

Yes, bravo indeed. But no encore please!

Goldengate

I find this post more deserving of aggressive applause.

Best idea yet. How do we convince 4chan that Shia LaBeouf buried these casks? They’d dig em up faster than they hoisted the MAGA hat on that flagpole in Tennessee. Speaking of Tennessee, I’m pretty sure Preiss was such a visionary that he imagined a failed child actor attempting performance art in the 2010’s would have a display in a field in Tennessee and buried a cask there.

drunknerds

I often post really intricate solves that don’t narrow down a dig spot, as satire. Because, why would Preiss make a really intricate puzzle to lead to a huge area? Dude just ran around 12 cities in 18 months for a fun book with his friends, the 2 correct solves have had a chain of directions that narrow down the location, and not a Gordian knot of logic that just points the solver into another huge area. So I often find it funny to post a really specific sequence of logic that ends with some huge and bizarre area: see my solve of puzzle nine that very obviously leads to Antarctica. Somewhere in Antarctica. Probably near the center.
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=737&hilit=architect&start=1920
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=737&hilit=architect&start=1935

Gonna get a tattoo of this:
E: clearly the blue halo around Antarctica on the right matches the image. Exactly.

Choice, that is the San Francisco Fire Dept. Pumping station #2. In my solve it is the reason for the Yin & Yang symbol. The smoke stack came down sometime in the 70s.
As for the Fort Mason tunnel, it was part of the Belt Railroad (think crossed arms in the image) which would move goods and people up and down the SF Waterfront along all the piers. Prisoners on their way to Alcatraz would be processed at or near the Presido, placed on a train and taken to Pier 43 (stone wall’s door) where they would then board a Police Boat to the Rock.

MrBackstop

Choice, that is the San Francisco Fire Dept. Pumping station #2. In my solve it is the reason for the Yin & Yang symbol. The smoke stack came down sometime in the 70s.
As for the Fort Mason tunnel, it was part of the Belt Railroad (think crossed arms in the image) which would move goods and people up and down the SF Waterfront along all the piers. Prisoners on their way to Alcatraz would be processed at or near the Presido, placed on a train and taken to Pier 43 (stone wall’s door) where they would then board a Police Boat to the Rock.

Simpler Yin Yang in the neighborhood would be the Ghirardelli Mermaids fountain. They sit in Yin Yang position.
Yin Yang is supposed to be a couple of gold-fish chasing tail. Fish… Mermaids.

MrBackstop

Choice, that is the San Francisco Fire Dept. Pumping station #2. In my solve it is the reason for the Yin & Yang symbol. The smoke stack came down sometime in the 70s.
As for the Fort Mason tunnel, it was part of the Belt Railroad (think crossed arms in the image) which would move goods and people up and down the SF Waterfront along all the piers. Prisoners on their way to Alcatraz would be processed at or near the Presido, placed on a train and taken to Pier 43 (stone wall’s door) where they would then board a Police Boat to the Rock.

Simpler Yin Yang in the neighborhood would be the Ghirardelli Mermaids
fountain
. They sit in Yin Yang position.
Yin Yang is supposed to be a couple of gold-fish chasing tail. Fish… Mermaids.

There are lots of thoughts about, what this is or where that is or this, means this neighborhood, or general area.
we need to keep in mind the fact that these clues must narrow down to a reasonably small (if not exact) spot.
Looking at Chicago we started at the water tower, passed M&B and the bowman and the great lakes fountain.
But then Lincoln, 10×13 trees(whichever trees they were) the fence, the fixture, congress ave Illinois Central Railroad , the Art institute and the band shell, (as well as the bowman)
are all visible from the casque spot. yes there are other clues but from this alone, 9 out 13 clues above are visible from the spot.
All the clues above, we either passed or can see on the way to or at the casque site.

There are lots of thoughts about, what this is or where that is or this, means this neighborhood, or general area.
we need to keep in mind the fact that these clues must narrow down to a reasonably small (if not exact) spot.
Looking at Chicago we started at the water tower, passed M&B and the bowman and the great lakes
fountain
.
But then Lincoln, 10×13 trees(whichever trees they were) the fence, the fixture, congress ave Illinois Central Railroad , the Art institute and the band shell, (as well as the bowman)
are all visible from the casque spot. yes there are other clues but from this alone, 9 out 13 clues above are visible from the spot.
All the clues above, we either passed or can see on the way to or at the casque site.

maltedfalcon

There are lots of thoughts about, what this is or where that is or this, means this neighborhood, or general area.
we need to keep in mind the fact that these clues must narrow down to a reasonably small (if not exact) spot.
Looking at Chicago we started at the water tower, passed M&B and the bowman and the great lakes fountain.
But then Lincoln, 10×13 trees(whichever trees they were) the fence, the fixture, congress ave Illinois Central Railroad , the Art institute and the band shell, (as well as the bowman)
are all visible from the casque spot. yes there are other clues but from this alone, 9 out 13 clues above are visible from the spot.
All the clues above, we either passed or can see on the way to or at the casque site.

Very good point mf. If we keep the findings from the previous two solves in mind, we can validate / invalidate our potential spots. Unless you find these hard evidence visual identifiers that can relate directly to the image, chances are, you may want to move on to investigate elsewhere.
One thing I bring myself back to is how small the clues can be… One clue in the Chicago solve was very small… the circular shape on the right side with the hypocycloid, which was a shape that was on a metal widow guard above our M & B. Something I have heard time and again listening to the podcasts, these things will most likely go unnoticed unless you are there with boots on the ground.

maltedfalcon

There are lots of thoughts about, what this is or where that is or this, means this neighborhood, or general area.
we need to keep in mind the fact that these clues must narrow down to a reasonably small (if not exact) spot.
Looking at Chicago we started at the water tower, passed M&B and the bowman and the great lakes
fountain
.
But then Lincoln, 10×13 trees(whichever trees they were) the fence, the fixture, congress ave Illinois Central Railroad , the Art institute and the band shell, (as well as the bowman)
are all visible from the casque spot. yes there are other clues but from this alone, 9 out 13 clues above are visible from the spot.
All the clues above, we either passed or can see on the way to or at the casque site.

Very good point mf. If we keep the findings from the previous two solves in mind, we can validate / invalidate our potential spots. Unless you find these hard evidence visual identifiers that can relate directly to the image, chances are, you may want to move on to investigate elsewhere.
One thing I bring myself back to is how small the clues can be… One clue in the Chicago solve was very small… the circular shape on the right side with the hypocycloid, which was a shape that was on a metal widow guard above our M & B. Something I have heard time and again listening to the podcasts, these things will most likely go unnoticed unless you are there with boots on the ground.

Another thought on the symbols along the lower left side and lower center…
There is a particular symbol which looks to be a triangle above an inverted triangle (invert) and another symbol which appears to be a capital D with it’s mirror image D (mirror). Could this be telling us to invert and mirror the image for a specific reason? For example, the yin yang symbol in the original image is obviously not oriented correctly. If we invert and mirror the image, we then have our yin yang symbol in the correct orientation.
Anyone else have thoughts about any of the symbols?

Scrappy929

One thing I bring myself back to is how small the clues can be… One clue in the Chicago solve was very small… the circular shape on the right side with the hypocycloid, which was a shape that was on a metal widow guard above our M & B. Something I have heard time and again listening to the podcasts, these things will most likely go unnoticed unless you are there with boots on the ground.

even worse, its not there any more so if you went now you would never find it…

Scrappy929

Another thought on the symbols along the lower left side and lower center…
There is a particular symbol which looks to be a triangle above an inverted triangle (invert) and another symbol which appears to be a capital D with it’s mirror image D (mirror). Could this be telling us to invert and mirror the image for a specific reason? For example, the yin yang symbol in the original image is obviously not oriented correctly. If we invert and mirror the image, we then have our yin yang symbol in the correct orientation.
Anyone else have thoughts about any of the symbols?

I interpreted the D mirrored D as GD. You can see a cut in the middle of mirrored D to form a G to spell G-Delli described in previous posts.

Choice

I interpreted the D mirrored D as GD. You can see a cut in the middle of mirrored D to form a G to spell G-Delli described in previous posts.

On the high res image I was sent recently, I can clearly see there is no break on the left of that symbol. You would almost think that we already have the “Gh”, so there shouldn’t be a need for redundancy, if indeed that is what the Gh is for. Even that seems to be up for debate with the Great highway. Just my thought.

Choice

So what’s that place? It looks like they used all the symbolism cliches! Dragon, globe, shield, phoenix.
Did I miss any?! Unicorn?

not sure what it is – I found it in one of the links you posted above…..the tiny/url one I think.

Choice

So what’s that place? It looks like they used all the symbolism cliches! Dragon, globe, shield, phoenix.
Did
I
miss any?! Unicorn?

not sure what it is –
I
found it in one
of
the links you posted above…..the tiny/url one
I
think.

MERLIN

not sure what it is – I found it in one of the links you posted above…..the tiny/url one I think.

Nope not one of my links. You either accidentally clicked something on the left side bar of the google map or you have redirector virus.

MERLIN

not sure what it is –
I
found it in one
of
the links you posted above…..the tiny/url one
I
think.

Nope not one
of
my links. You either accidentally clicked something on the left side bar
of
the google map or you have redirector virus.

I finally found a photo that shows the area of my dig spot for SF. I wanted to post that graphic as well as another.
Karleen brought up the idea that perhaps there were other clues in the book itself. At first I thought, wait a minute, didn’t he talk about no more clues would be in the book other than the Verses and Images? Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t …but as I looked at what Karleen was seeing in the book’s illustrations I thought I’d give it a look.
I was going thru the pages and came to page 15,….and there it was, it hit me like a smack in the face, there was the Dragon on the front of the boat being rowed. As I looked at that artwork I saw the many clues that are in my solve. But what really got me were the “circles” on the boat. They are almost identical to the decorative circles on the wall at the entrance of the East Bleachers in Aquatic Park. And other than the “golden pearl” with its shadow, I cannot find any other circles like these in Image 1. I also like how this page refers to the Fair Folk and Russia since Aquatic Park is at the bottom of Russian Hill. Not only that but the boat planks of the boat appear to be the stairs of the East Bleachers. Here is the graphic:
Now put this together with the new photo I found and gives visual of my dig spot for Image 1.
I do appreciate learning about the 2009 renovation to the park from Malted Falcon. He helped me look at my area in even more detail and I was able to come up with this spot for the casque. I see the “circular decorative” entrance marks as being the final locator. These circles are like the ones on the boat artwork and because they are a bas relief, they cast a shadow like the golden pearl in Image 1.

I
finally found a photo that shows the area
of
my dig spot for SF.
I
wanted to post that graphic as well as another.
Karleen brought up the idea that perhaps there were other clues in the book itself. At first
I
thought, wait a minute, didn’t he talk about no more clues would be in the book other than the Verses and Images? Maybe he did, maybe he didn’t …but as
I
looked at what Karleen was seeing in the book’s illustrations
I
thought
I
‘d give it a look.
I
was going thru the pages and came to page 15,….and there it was, it hit me like a smack in the face, there was the Dragon on the front
of
the boat being rowed. As
I
looked at that artwork
I
saw the many clues that are in my solve. But what really got me were the “circles” on the boat. They are almost identical to the decorative circles on the wall at the entrance
of
the East Bleachers in Aquatic Park. And other than the “golden pearl” with its shadow,
I
cannot find any other circles like these in Image 1.
I
also like how this page refers to the Fair Folk and Russia since Aquatic Park is at the bottom
of
Russian Hill. Not only that but the boat planks
of
the boat appear to be the stairs
of
the East Bleachers. Here is the graphic:
Now put this together with the new photo
I
found and gives visual
of
my dig spot for Image 1.
I
do appreciate learning about the 2009 renovation to the park from Malted Falcon. He helped me look at my area in even more detail and
I
was able to come up with this spot for the casque.
I
see the “circular decorative” entrance marks as being the final locator. These circles are like the ones on the boat artwork and because they are a bas relief, they cast a shadow like the golden pearl in Image 1.

Permission to dig granted !-
Wont be able to dig  until early in January
have to sign up as volunteer  with grounds keepers present.
Forms to fill out…
quite excited…

Saw this familiar scene when i looked up Chastity on Wikipedia while thinking about the LotJ reference to the chaste pearl.

Saw this familiar scene when
i
looked up Chastity on Wikipedia while thinking about the LotJ reference to the chaste pearl.

Not to feed your fire here, but that reminded me of Benjamin Franklin’s
13 Virtues
, and there are 13 nations of Fair People. Also Aristotle’s 12 Virtues, but chastity didn’t make his list.
And yet Benny was the one who got syphilis from some French chick.

Not to feed your fire here, but that reminded me
of
Benjamin Franklin’s
13 Virtues
, and there are 13 nations
of
Fair People. Also Aristotle’s 12 Virtues, but chastity didn’t make his list.
And yet Benny was the one who got syphilis from some French chick.

At the time of the Secret, Ghirardelli chocolate was owned by the parent company of Rice-A-Roni from 1963 to 1986. As you remember, the Rice-A-Roni ads were huge in that time period, so maybe the cable car outline in the Image would have just made us think about Rice-A-Roni and dig a little into the connections.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghirardel … te_Company

But can’t any historical spot provide an opportunity for education? I really can’t see someone looking at a jail and thinking “education and justice” is a good fit.

drunknerds

I really can’t see someone looking at a jail and thinking “education and justice” is a good fit.

go back and look through the posts with the word Alcatraz it has been suggested for both over and over and over.

drunknerds

But can’t any historical spot provide an opportunity for education? I really can’t see someone looking at a jail and thinking “education and justice” is a good fit.

Many schools take field trips to both Angle Island and Alcatraz, I should know went to both with my elementary school in the 70’s so yes I can see where education can be thought of.

which of the three areas did you decide to dig in?

Good Luck Jimerson….bring another casque to the light of day for us.

In this image G-Man found, it looks like this flagpole spot wouldn’t be seen from the street no the sidewalk. There’s a hedge and then above it bushes.
If it was like this in 1980 or whenever, I’d have no problem believing price slipped in after hours and buried a casque

Also, immediately behind the senior center, in a much more secluded area, is this thing that I don’t know what it is:

drunknerds

Also, immediately behind the senior center, in a much more secluded area, is this thing that I don’t know what it is:

From Bing maps, it looks like a street lamp:
Goonies or someone else on the ground can probably give us better confirmation, though.

Thanks meatypuffs.
I emailed the art/museum director of the Senior Center and nicely asked for any and all info about the door dragons.

There’s some evidence that there was a giant pole at Stow Lake in the past. The question is whether it was there when BP visited.
https://www.hippostcard.com/search?keyw … arent_id=0
This is the location where the pole used to be, directly across from the Chinese Pavillion.
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7685032 … 312!8i6656
If it was there (big if) there are some giant steps in line with it from the area of the Gardens:
https://www.google.com/maps/@37.7685033 … 312!8i6656
I speculate if any of this is plausible.
However, in thinking about things and digging for info, Mark Twain and Harriet Beecher Stowe were neighbors and good friends. In the direction of Twain’s attention would be Stow Lake.

Hey hunters, is it safe to tap a five foot probe one step towards the street from that senior center pole? I can’t imagine they’d run a pipe/wire from that weird utility box
under
the flagpole base, so as probing one step away from the pole would hit it. But, at the same time, I have no experience with this.
I have a couple of friends who seem willing to try that out (although we’ll see if they’re just riding my hype-man train), but I don’t want to like leave a senior center without sewage or something, lol

For some reason, there’s another thread about this. It’s too bad, because a huge breakthrough has been found there and I think this thread missed this.
Let me summarize it here. Most of these are stuff they discovered that I just put labeled images to:
Goonie68 and treetops, I believe, found the GGP senior center:
There, they noticed a very familiar dragon statue on the senior center, and a decent “lamppost under the table” match:
Note the teeth, here:
Oh, hey, here’s the front entrance:
No bars, you say? The location was once a police station.
Gosh, I guess all we need is a:
Check out the top of that pole and the shape of the grounds:
I believe goonies or treetops is currently researching the history of the pole. If it was there in 1980, take one step from the base towards fulton street, and dig..

Thanks for looking at the thread. I have more info as my research has begun to unravel this mystery starting point stay tuned!!!!!

Also the book has way more clues in it then you think, you have to dig deep and what I have found is mind blowing stuff!!! I am trying to put it all together….

Wow! Right there in the open by the street?
Yes, the flagpole has been there:
http://sflib1.sfpl.org:82/record=b1033979

JoshCornell1

is that the pole where that bliven guy dug?

No. He dug in a different park.

Ok so I think this is getting confusing in the information….The senior building on fulton and 37ave is my starting point. Stone Wall’s door, not he ending place where the casques is buried. This is where my research has brought me.

Goonie68

Ok so I think this is getting confusing in the information….The senior building on fulton and 37ave is my starting point. Stone Wall’s door, not he ending place where the casques is buried. This is where my research has brought me.

drunknerds suggested right there in front of the senior center.

I cannot overstate how CRUCIAL the dragon find is:
This
is our fence and fixture.
This
is our Grecian garden wall.
This
is out exact match of a minor landmark at the dig location.
This is real.

Goldengate

37th Ave is interesting and there are pieces that seem to fit into the puzzle. But if I may be the devil’s advocate… would Preiss have dug out in the open, directly in front of the of the Police Academy’s front door — on an extremely busy street like Fulton? Back in 82, as today, there was absolutely no cover in that area. Anything’s possible, of course… but that would be BOLD.

As I recall, it became the senior center in 1980 or 1981. That doesn’t solve the issue of digging out in the open, but at least it was not a police station at that time.
I said in a post in the other thread that I really like this location with stone wall door, the dragon, the lamp post, and the pearl appearing on top of an elusive giant pole. I don’t love Fulton Street=Steamboat=Twain, but that’s always been one of the more difficult lines to find a clear match. Assuming “giant step” is an instruction to take a giant step away from the pole, I think it is worth exploring a few feet surrounding the pole. At least it appears this area has been unchanged since the early 80’s, so we should have a good idea of whether it’s the right spot or not. Dig it up!

Goonie68

Ok so I think this is getting confusing in the information….The senior building on fulton and 37ave is my starting point. Stone Wall’s door, not he ending place where the casques is buried. This is where my research has brought me.

Oh, cool, glad we have two interpretations to compare. Looking forward to yours

Goldengate

37th Ave is interesting and there are pieces that seem to fit into the puzzle. But if I may be the devil’s advocate… would Preiss have dug out in the open, directly in front of the of the Police Academy’s front door — on an extremely busy street like Fulton? Back in 82, as today, there was absolutely no cover in that area. Anything’s possible, of course… but that would be BOLD.

This is a great counterpoint.
I’m hoping goonie68 posts a solve that is still right by that dragon statue, but much more secluded

Read all the posts in this thread several times (in fact, I’m going to make a DrunkNotes summary of it next time I get a free afternoon), and I’m a little shocked to not see this mentioned. I’m sure it HAS to have been mentioned, though:
We’ve been flipping the dress about the vertical axis because of the G h. But why not flip the whole thing about the horizontal axis too, because of the upside down roman numerals? It could even be argued that every numeral on the dress border is upside down, because the I II III above her hands read the same way upside down.
Not sure if this will lead anywhere, but I kind of feel its such an obvious clue and in-line with the G h flip that it must yield something. It would put the flare on the opposite corner which would make all the lay-a-map-of-GGP-over-the-dress theories kind of… different?

erexere

I wish I could understand how this puzzle works. .

This puzzle makes me feel like a Giant pole

Who’s got a dumb question?
Where exactly is that dragon at the senior center? I can’t find it on streetview

drunknerds

Who’s got a dumb question?
Where exactly is that dragon at the senior center? I can’t find it on streetview

Go to google maps, find the Senior Center, click on photos. It’s in the arch above the door.

https://www.instantstreetview.com/@37.772026,-122.497051,182.71h,5.22p,0.55z
Above the front doors

I will post the picture I took later today ….you know work and all get’s in the way!!!

I see your excitement about the dragon but It doesn’t seem like a pure match.

I found this while searching. Some interesting photos and descriptions of GGP through the years.
http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/article/S … 932506.php
Also, wouldn’t the verse air smells sweet refer to the Garden of Fragrance?
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Garde … 22.4685314

gManTexas

Also, wouldn’t the verse air smells sweet refer to the Garden of Fragrance?

Why, no, it’s the it’s the Golden Gate Park dog training area, of course

drunknerds

Why, no, it’s the it’s the Golden Gate Park dog training area, of course

Haha, you might be onto something. Check your shoe!

So, Gmantexas and I have been scouring photos to make a solve which might have legs. Naturally, we built this on the shoulders of the giants who researched before us, but there’s some new stuff I hope you find exciting. Or at least entertaining. Check the end for a great SF historical photo resource and ways you can help (besides, of course, giving your constructive criticism, which is always welcome.)
Location: Golden Gate Park
Lat-longitude and Golden Gate Park map are all we need to get us to the park.
This one’s a walking tour!
At Stone Wall’s door, the air smells sweet
Shakespeare’s Garden. Stone wall with a famous door in it in GGP. Surrounded by gardens.
Not Far Away, High Posts are Three
Sutro Tower. Kind of a Gimme because antennae on a hill can be seen from most parts of a city.
Sounds from the sky, near Ace is high. Running North
Ace=1. High=Highway. Highway 1 is elevated if you walk towards the north end it from Shakespeare’s garden.
While walking there from Shakespeare’s garden using the route shown, we go down the stairs with our famous rail (at B in the map above):
Past the Chinese Pavilion (Yin Yang on her smock in Image 1)
Around Stowe Lake, seeing Huntington Falls:
Strawberry Hill (the strawberry in her smock under her arms)
and the ruins of Sweeny observatory (the 11 planets in the sky).
Now we’re at C. We still have to make our way up and around to where highway 1 runs north out of the park.
But first across
Triple meaning: Prayerbook Cross is at D.
Crossover drive is right there. Plus it’s where highway 1 turns E-W while crossing the park.
Education and Justice for all to see
Which way now?
But where? For a long time we’ve been hitting our head against the wall with this clue:
In jewel’s direction
Lies an object of Twain’s attention.
Twain went everywhere and wrote about everything. Preiss had to have known this. So, in order to prevent ambiguity, maybe he’d pick somewhere that has TWO things that are hugely associated with Twain. I surveyed a ton of people, and overwhelmingly 5 things were repeated when I asked, “what do you most associate with Twain:”
– He wrote satire
– He loved boats. Like a lot.
– He wrote Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer
– He wrote for newspapers
– He loved the Mississippi River.
Immediately adjacent to the
senior
center/police academy is Spreckels lake(E on the map). In fact, it could be seen as the only thing of note next to the sr. center.
– Spreckels lake was a man made lake made for fans of
boats
to race their models. Lots of boats there.
– Spreckels lake was named after a man who owned the
newspaper
Mark Twain got his start writing for
Immediately after Spreckels lake, we arrive at a police academy (F on the map). It’s at 37th street (37 in her hair)
Leading evidence is that this police academy closed in 1980 and got turned into a
senior
center. So it is quite possible that, when Preiss hid the casque, there was no civilian foot traffic, and someone in a hard hat and reflective vest wouldn’t seem odd at all. Plus his then-gf (who became his wife) could have played lookout. If I can stumble in Golden Gate park on hardcore drugs for hours at a time without police attention, someone sober could easily dig a hole and not be bothered.
Here’s the top of the door today… note the phoenix statues above the door:
Now, we turn to the image for dig confirmers. There are a bunch!
– The Dragon in the image matches the phoenix above the police academy door in five different ways. Weird ways, like having
two different-sized fangs and a stubby chin.
Also note the weirdly curved tail, and the flowers in the design. Roses?
– The post the dragon matches is a match at 5/6 points, and only a little narrower than it should be at the sixth point.
– The door matches the one in the image. Especially if you are standing at the flagpole- Notches in the arch, smooth sides, and bricks on the bottom.
There aren’t bars there, now, but the police academy picture above, and this one from 1965 show there were bars.
Not how pronounced the spaces are between the bricks at the bottom, just like in Image 1.
While no photo evidence has been found, the bars had to have been there in 1980: SFPD had incidents all through the 70s of radicals rolling into police stations and opening fire.
All of this stuff has been here for much longer than 1980
Further confirmation of this spot as the dig site: If you overlay Golden Gate Park’s map over her smock, her finger points towards 37th street and Fulton, where the police academy is located:
So where exactly do we dig?
Giant Pole, giant step
To the place the jewel is kept
Ah, there’s a huge flagpole there that was definitely in the same place in 1980, as this photo from 1941 shows:
Facing the door from the sidewalk, turn towards the giantpole and take a giant step
Other stuff:
– Can someone get a more exact match for her hairline & Spreckels Lake, North lake in 1980 and the pelican, and does anyone see the old, blanket covered woman with a fountain pen?
If that retaining wall in the SE wasn’t there, her hairline seems a pretty good match for Spreckels lake. I know people like it as the bridge coming in from the headlands, but that seems really obscure and redundant.
North Lake people have said the pelican blue blob matched both the south side in 1980 and the north side in 1903. I could only find a map of 1903:
On the lighter side, We can’t stop seeing a wrinkled, sitting old person covered in a blanket here:
A denizen of the
senior
center?
– This is a great resource for digital photos of old-timey SF. The women graduating the police academy photo above was found here, and I don’t think it’s readily available by trying the usual avenues on Google Image Search
http://sflib1.sfpl.org:82
Our current main issues:
1 Why is there no pole in Image 1? If it is the major clue shouldn’t it appear somewhere? This might be our missing final “step” for the dig mentioned above. Maybe it’s in the clock because, again, that hasn’t been used yet.
2 For a pole, the flagpole is pretty giant. For a flagpole, it’s pretty average-sized, though
3 Why the flip is this so hard for a pearl? I mean you can get a pearl for cheap!!

So, Gmantexas and I have been scouring photos to make a solve which might have legs. Naturally, we built this on the shoulders of the giants who researched before us, but there’s some new stuff I hope you find exciting. Or at least entertaining. Check the end for a great SF historical photo resource and ways you can help (besides, of course, giving your constructive criticism, which is always welcome.)
Location: Golden Gate Park
Lat-longitude and Golden Gate Park map are all we need to get us to the park.
This one’s a walking tour!
At Stone Wall’s door, the air smells sweet
Shakespeare’s Garden. Stone wall with a famous door in it in GGP. Surrounded by gardens.
Not Far Away, High Posts are Three
Sutro Tower. Kind of a Gimme because antennae on a hill can be seen from most parts of a city.
Sounds from the sky, near Ace is high. Running North
Ace=1. High=Highway. Highway 1 is elevated if you walk towards the north end it from Shakespeare’s garden.
While walking there from Shakespeare’s garden using the route shown, we go down the stairs with our famous rail (at B in the map above):
Past the Chinese Pavilion (Yin Yang on her smock in Image 1)
Around Stowe Lake, seeing Huntington Falls:
Strawberry Hill (the strawberry in her smock under her arms)
and the ruins of Sweeny observatory (the 11 planets in the sky).
Now we’re at C. We still have to make our way up and around to where highway 1 runs north out of the park.
But first across
Triple meaning: Prayerbook Cross is at D.
Crossover drive is right there. Plus it’s where highway 1 turns E-W while crossing the park.
Education and Justice for all to see
Which way now?
But where? For a long time we’ve been hitting our head against the wall with this clue:
In jewel’s direction
Lies an object of Twain’s attention.
Twain went everywhere and wrote about everything. Preiss had to have known this. So, in order to prevent ambiguity, maybe he’d pick somewhere that has TWO things that are hugely associated with Twain. I surveyed a ton of people, and overwhelmingly 5 things were repeated when I asked, “what do you most associate with Twain:”
– He wrote satire
– He loved boats. Like a lot.
– He wrote Huck Finn and Tom Sawyer
– He wrote for newspapers
– He loved the Mississippi River.
Immediately adjacent to the senior center/police academy is Spreckels lake(E on the map). In fact, it could be seen as the only thing of note next to the sr. center.
– Spreckels lake was a man made lake made for fans of
boats
to race their models. Lots of boats there.
– Spreckels lake was named after a man who owned the
newspaper
Mark Twain got his start writing for
Immediately after Spreckels lake, we arrive at a police academy (F on the map). It’s at 37th street (37 in her hair)
Leading evidence is that this police academy closed in 1980 and got turned into a senior center. So it is quite possible that, when Preiss hid the casque, there was no civilian foot traffic, and someone in a hard hat and reflective vest wouldn’t seem odd at all. Plus his then-gf (who became his wife) could have played lookout. If I can stumble in Golden Gate park on hardcore drugs for hours at a time without police attention, someone sober could easily dig a hole and not be bothered.
Here’s the top of the door today… note the phoenix statues above the door:
Now, we turn to the image for dig confirmers. There are a bunch!
– The Dragon in the image matches the phoenix above the police academy door in five different ways. Weird ways, like having
two different-sized fangs and a stubby chin.
Also note the weirdly curved tail, and the flowers in the design. Roses?
– The post the dragon matches is a match at 5/6 points, and only a little narrower than it should be at the sixth point.
– The door matches the one in the image. Especially if you are standing at the flagpole- Notches in the arch, smooth sides, and bricks on the bottom.
There aren’t bars there, now, but the police academy picture above, and this one from 1965 show there were bars.
Not how pronounced the spaces are between the bricks at the bottom, just like in Image 1.
While no photo evidence has been found, the bars had to have been there in 1980: SFPD had incidents all through the 70s of radicals rolling into police stations and opening fire.
All of this stuff has been here for much longer than 1980
Further confirmation of this spot as the dig site: If you overlay Golden Gate Park’s map over her smock, her finger points towards 37th street and Fulton, where the police academy is located:
So where exactly do we dig?
Giant Pole, giant step
To the place the jewel is kept
Ah, there’s a huge flagpole there that was definitely in the same place in 1980, as this photo from 1941 shows:
Facing the door from the sidewalk, turn towards the giantpole and take a giant step
Other stuff:
– Can someone get a more exact match for her hairline & Spreckels Lake, North lake in 1980 and the pelican, and does anyone see the old, blanket covered woman with a fountain pen?
If that retaining wall in the SE wasn’t there, her hairline seems a pretty good match for Spreckels lake. I know people like it as the bridge coming in from the headlands, but that seems really obscure and redundant.
North Lake people have said the pelican blue blob matched both the south side in 1980 and the north side in 1903. I could only find a map of 1903:
On the lighter side, We can’t stop seeing a wrinkled, sitting old person covered in a blanket here:
A denizen of the senior center?
– This is a great resource for digital photos of old-timey SF. The women graduating the police academy photo above was found here, and I don’t think it’s readily available by trying the usual avenues on Google Image Search
http://sflib1.sfpl.org:82
Our current main issues:
1 Why is there no pole in Image 1? If it is the major clue shouldn’t it appear somewhere? This might be our missing final “step” for the dig mentioned above. Maybe it’s in the clock because, again, that hasn’t been used yet.
2 For a pole, the flagpole is pretty giant. For a flagpole, it’s pretty average-sized, though
3 Why the flip is this so hard for a pearl? I mean you can get a pearl for cheap!!

More old-timey pictures of the pole, too if you can find them. Looks like it used to have some weird casing/design on the bottom.

and the area around the flag pole in front of the
senior
center has been searched.
searched = dug/probed/scanned with a metal detector.

and the area around the flag pole in front of the senior center has been searched.
searched = dug/probed/scanned with a metal detector.

Will a metal detector pick up the casque??

Awesome. Thats some good light reading. One major thing that stands out to me is that Sweeney observatory never housed a telescope, it was more of a “Climb up here and look at the city” kind of observatory.

Goonie68

Will a metal detector pick up the casque??

see the casque 13 thread… it would need to be a very good metal detector, most have a depth limit of 6-8 inches…

maltedfalcon

and the area around the flag pole in front of the
senior
center has been searched.
searched = dug/probed/scanned with a metal detector.

Good to know. I saw you say you had probed the area with a probe and a shovel, but I also recall you recently saying that probing is useless, so I wasn’t sure if I should discount that effort.
– What is “in front of?” Do you mean “by the flag pole towards the
senior
center?” There was a bush there for many years, so there’s a chance he would have had to avoid that section.
– Did you “search” the posted solve area, which is not next to the flag pole, but more towards the sidewalk? That’s one of the new parts I’m excited about: For years we’ve been trying to figure out in which direction to step away from the pole, but the lack of direction directly implies the pole is our final guidepost and we should be taking a step towards it.
I really think the lack of direction in the final couplet indicates we should be stepping toward the pole from somewhere at the sr center.

maltedfalcon

and the area around the flag pole in front of the senior center has been searched.
searched = dug/probed/scanned with a metal detector.

Good to know. I saw you say you had probed the area with a probe and a shovel, but I also recall you recently saying that probing is useless, so I wasn’t sure if I should discount that effort.
– What is “in front of?” Do you mean “by the flag pole towards the senior center?” There was a bush there for many years, so there’s a chance he would have had to avoid that section.
– Did you “search” the posted solve area, which is not next to the flag pole, but more towards the sidewalk? That’s one of the new parts I’m excited about: For years we’ve been trying to figure out in which direction to step away from the pole, but the lack of direction directly implies the pole is our final guidepost and we should be taking a step towards it.
I really think the lack of direction in the final couplet indicates we should be stepping toward the pole from somewhere at the sr center.

drunknerds

Good to know. I saw you say you had probed the area with a probe and a shovel, but I also recall you recently saying that probing is useless, so I wasn’t sure if I should discount that effort.
I really think the lack of direction in the final couplet indicates we should be stepping toward the pole from somewhere at the sr center.

I stepped away from the pole towards the street

drunknerds

I saw you say you had probed the area with a probe and a shovel, but I also recall you recently saying that probing is useless,

I believe probing is useless, That doesn’t mean I haven’t tried it.
The only time probing would be useful is if the casque is intact and in its box, and the soil was extremely soft.
Only then could you probe enough that you could determine the size and shape of the target (square) 5×5 inches.
anything else requires you to dig to be sure. and if the box is broken all bets are off.
IF the soil has any kind of strength it would be possible to push a probe through the casque without realizing it was there.
Still this is actually the kind of scenario I created casque 13 to try out for sure…

Dang, thought vagina monologues was cancelled

Unknown

Unknown:
Salt (water–salpregnant fisher marsh)

Why was this phrase in my post changed from
salt WATER marsh
to sal
pregnant fisher
marsh?
This is odd—can someone explain it?
ck

It is the language filter filtering out the work T W A T sorry it does offend some people.
Mark

Mark Parry

It is the language filter filtering out the work T W A T sorry it does offend some people.
Mark

hah HAH.  Hahahahahahahahahahhha.  What would happen if I typed
wimp
cat?

I was asked where did I dig around a totem pole,
This is goddess of the forest, she stood in lindley meadow until 1988 (her base is still there.)
My theory started at Mccaren lodge – stone walls door
there is a gated archway near there.
I passed the conservatory of flowers – the air smelled sweet
Education and justice and high points – all pretty standard.
(note the route I am taking was totally on JFK blvd)
Sounds from the sky we go under highway 1
Aces High – Highway 1 running north over us, but first A Cross (we pass prayerbook cross)
Giant Pole –
Giant step ( the cement base the totem pole was on)
Since I did not have a object for twain,
I dug around it 360 degrees and out 4 feet, that was a lot of dirt ( actually took 4 separate trips of digging.)

I
was asked where did
I
dig around a totem pole,
This is goddess
of
the forest, she stood in lindley meadow until 1988 (her base is still there.)
My theory started at Mccaren lodge – stone walls door
there is a gated archway near there.
I
passed the conservatory
of
flowers – the air smelled sweet
Education and justice and high points – all pretty standard.
(note the route
I
am taking was totally on JFK blvd)
Sounds from the sky we go under highway 1
Aces High – Highway 1 running north over us, but first A Cross (we pass prayerbook cross)
Giant Pole –
Giant step ( the cement base the totem pole was on)
Since
I
did not have a object for twain,
I
dug around it 360 degrees and out 4 feet, that was a lot
of
dirt ( actually took 4 separate trips
of
digging.)

Lord Almighty.

I read about your heroic efforts. I admire your tenacity. If not for this I would be positive that this is the Giant pole.

I
read about your heroic efforts.
I
admire your tenacity. If not for this
I
would be positive that this is the Giant pole.

gManTexas

I read about your heroic efforts. I admire your tenacity. If not for this I would be positive that this is the Giant pole.

it still could be, I was never able to
A: figure out a good object of twains attention
B: Definitively say what a giant step is… Perhaps if the goddess took an actual step off the plinth – how far would that have been I guessed and dug one small hole where I though it would be, but that was in front
what if the direction was different…
Giant step could be something else along jfk I just never found it… and it could be right by the giant step whatever that is….

gManTexas

I
read about your heroic efforts.
I
admire your tenacity. If not for this
I
would be positive that this is the Giant pole.

it still could be,
I
was never able to
A: figure out a good object
of
twains attention
B: Definitively say what a giant step is… Perhaps if the goddess took an actual step off the plinth – how far would that have been
I
guessed and dug one small hole where
I
though it would be, but that was in front
what if the direction was different…
Giant step could be something else along jfk
I
just never found it… and it could be right by the giant step whatever that is….

maltedfalcon

it still could be, I was never able to
A: figure out a good object of twains attention
B: Definitively say what a giant step is… Perhaps if the goddess took an actual step off the plinth – how far would that have been I guessed and dug one small hole where I though it would be, but that was in front
what if the direction was different…
Giant step could be something else along jfk I just never found it… and it could be right by the giant step whatever that is….

I have to agree. Giant pole, Giant step are terrible instructions.

maltedfalcon

it still could be,
I
was never able to
A: figure out a good object
of
twains attention
B: Definitively say what a giant step is… Perhaps if the goddess took an actual step off the plinth – how far would that have been
I
guessed and dug one small hole where
I
though it would be, but that was in front
what if the direction was different…
Giant step could be something else along jfk
I
just never found it… and it could be right by the giant step whatever that is….

I
have to agree. Giant pole, Giant step are terrible instructions.

You mean these holes?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39494690445/in/dateposted-public/

gManTexas

I have to agree. Giant pole, Giant step are terrible instructions.

This is why I’m really trying to think in terms of “Giant pole, Giant step” being equivalent to
“Seek the columns for the search”
and
“L sits and left
Beyond his shoulder
Is the Fair Folks’
Treasure holder”
If you took either of those clues as being the final dig instruction, you’d be in a similarly vague situation. How far beyond L’s shoulder? Where in relation to the columns? The lines about Ace is High running north and an object of Twain’s attention being across (East-West?) seem like a more reliable potential marker for an exact point to dig.

gManTexas

I
have to agree. Giant pole, Giant step are terrible instructions.

This is why
I
‘m really trying to think in terms
of
“Giant pole, Giant step” being equivalent to
“Seek the columns for the search”
and
“L sits and left
Beyond his shoulder
Is the Fair Folks’
Treasure holder”
If you took either
of
those clues as being the final dig instruction, you’d be in a similarly vague situation. How far beyond L’s shoulder? Where in relation to the columns? The lines about Ace is High running north and an object
of
Twain’s attention being across (East-West?) seem like a more reliable potential marker for an exact point to dig.

treetops

This is why I’m really trying to think in terms of “Giant pole, Giant step” being equivalent to
“Seek the columns for the search”
and
“L sits and left
Beyond his shoulder
Is the Fair Folks’
Treasure holder”
If you took either of those clues as being the final dig instruction, you’d be in a similarly vague situation. How far beyond L’s shoulder? Where in relation to the columns? The lines about Ace is High running north and an object of Twain’s attention being across (East-West?) seem like a more reliable potential marker for an exact point to dig.

are there areas of golden gate park near your spot that are known to have frogs? jumping frogs did catch the attention of twain, leading him to write…
an article also uses giant steps in reference to the frogs:
That was in December, 1864. He went to Angel’s Camp in Calaveras County, where he did a little gold mining and listened to the old miners spin yarns. In his notebook for that period, we find one of these yarns summarized: “Coleman with his jumping frog—bet stranger $50—stranger had no frog, and C. got him one:—in the meantime stranger filled C’s frog full of shot and he couldn’t jump. The stranger’s frog won.” After Twain’s return to San Francisco, Artemus Ward, who was in town on a visit, suggested he ought to submit something to one of the eastern publications; so Twain wrote this anecdote up in tall-tale style and sent it off. It was printed in the Saturday Press on November 18, 1865. It was his first work to appear in a national publication, and it immediately made his name. The nation’s fancy was tickled by this drawling tale of the famous jumping frog.
For a writer there are apt to be two places that have a special importance in his life. One is the place where he was brought up and formed the impressions that, in various guises, will be the basic material he will draw on. The other is the place where he first discovers his vocation. For Twain this place was San Francisco; it was here that he came to the realization, comparatively late in life, that he was not really going to be a river-boat pilot or a printer or a miner or any of the other things he had tried. What he was going to be was a writer.
Twain left San Francisco about a year after the publication of “The Jumping Frog.”
came from here
https://www.americanheritage.com/conten … -francisco
also in another article said this about twain.. Charles Pfaff’s beer cellar on lower Broadway was the favored haunt of a mid-19th-century bohemian coterie that included Walt Whitman, editor Henry Clapp, Jr., and the country’s favorite humorist, Artemus Ward; Ward’s friendship and support led directly to publication of the celebrated “Jumping Frog” story in Clapp’s Saturday Press — the young Mark Twain’s first giant step toward national renown.
maybe giant step could be “jump”…as in frogs…i know nada about san fran, i am working on the boston one, but i do read these from time to time…so if you spoke of frogs before, I do sincerely apologize. i did a little googling and there were/are frogs in lily pond in golden gate park, in fact they were a problem as of recent, or still are..when i did the street view from nancy pelosi dr i could see that tower structure with the three high posts.
just sharing

treetops

This is why
I
‘m really trying to think in terms
of
“Giant pole, Giant step” being equivalent to
“Seek the columns for the search”
and
“L sits and left
Beyond his shoulder
Is the Fair Folks’
Treasure holder”
If you took either
of
those clues as being the final dig instruction, you’d be in a similarly vague situation. How far beyond L’s shoulder? Where in relation to the columns? The lines about Ace is High running north and an object
of
Twain’s attention being across (East-West?) seem like a more reliable potential marker for an exact point to dig.

are there areas
of
golden gate park near your spot that are known to have frogs? jumping frogs did catch the attention
of
twain, leading him to write…
an article also uses giant steps in reference to the frogs:
That was in December, 1864. He went to Angel’s Camp in Calaveras County, where he did a little gold mining and listened to the old miners spin yarns. In his notebook for that period, we find one
of
these yarns summarized: “Coleman with his jumping frog—bet stranger $50—stranger had no frog, and C. got him one:—in the meantime stranger filled C’s frog full
of
shot and he couldn’t jump. The stranger’s frog won.” After Twain’s return to San Francisco, Artemus Ward, who was in town on a visit, suggested he ought to submit something to one
of
the eastern publications; so Twain wrote this anecdote up in tall-tale style and sent it off. It was printed in the Saturday Press on November 18, 1865. It was his first work to appear in a national publication, and it immediately made his name. The nation’s fancy was tickled by this drawling tale
of
the famous jumping frog.
For a writer there are apt to be two places that have a special importance in his life. One is the place where he was brought up and formed the impressions that, in various guises, will be the basic material he will draw on. The other is the place where he first discovers his vocation. For Twain this place was San Francisco; it was here that he came to the realization, comparatively late in life, that he was not really going to be a river-boat pilot or a printer or a miner or any
of
the other things he had tried. What he was going to be was a writer.
Twain left San Francisco about a year after the publication
of
“The Jumping Frog.”
came from here
https://www.americanheritage.com/conten … -francisco
also in another article said this about twain.. Charles Pfaff’s beer cellar on lower Broadway was the favored haunt
of
a mid-19th-century bohemian coterie that included Walt Whitman, editor Henry Clapp, Jr., and the country’s favorite humorist, Artemus Ward; Ward’s friendship and support led directly to publication
of
the celebrated “Jumping Frog” story in Clapp’s Saturday Press — the young Mark Twain’s first giant step toward national renown.
maybe giant step could be “jump”…as in frogs…
i
know nada about san fran,
i
am working on the boston one, but
i
do read these from time to time…so if you spoke
of
frogs before,
I
do sincerely apologize.
i
did a little googling and there were/are frogs in lily pond in golden gate park, in fact they were a problem as
of
recent, or still are..when
i
did the street view from nancy pelosi dr
i
could see that tower structure with the three high posts.
just sharing

I went through all the words I could think of at one point that could work with giant step.
Skip, leap, hop, jump, bounce, terrace, tier. I dunno.

I
went through all the words
I
could think
of
at one point that could work with giant step.
Skip, leap, hop, jump, bounce, terrace, tier.
I
dunno.

strike13

are there areas of golden gate park near your spot that are known to have frogs? jumping frogs did catch the attention of twain, leading him to write…
an article also uses giant steps in reference to the frogs:
That was in December, 1864. He went to Angel’s Camp in Calaveras County, where he did a little gold mining and listened to the old miners spin yarns. In his notebook for that period, we find one of these yarns summarized: “Coleman with his jumping frog—bet stranger $50—stranger had no frog, and C. got him one:—in the meantime stranger filled C’s frog full of shot and he couldn’t jump. The stranger’s frog won.” After Twain’s return to San Francisco, Artemus Ward, who was in town on a visit, suggested he ought to submit something to one of the eastern publications; so Twain wrote this anecdote up in tall-tale style and sent it off. It was printed in the Saturday Press on November 18, 1865. It was his first work to appear in a national publication, and it immediately made his name. The nation’s fancy was tickled by this drawling tale of the famous jumping frog.
For a writer there are apt to be two places that have a special importance in his life. One is the place where he was brought up and formed the impressions that, in various guises, will be the basic material he will draw on. The other is the place where he first discovers his vocation. For Twain this place was San Francisco; it was here that he came to the realization, comparatively late in life, that he was not really going to be a river-boat pilot or a printer or a miner or any of the other things he had tried. What he was going to be was a writer.
Twain left San Francisco about a year after the publication of “The Jumping Frog.”
came from here
https://www.americanheritage.com/conten … -francisco
also in another article said this about twain.. Charles Pfaff’s beer cellar on lower Broadway was the favored haunt of a mid-19th-century bohemian coterie that included Walt Whitman, editor Henry Clapp, Jr., and the country’s favorite humorist, Artemus Ward; Ward’s friendship and support led directly to publication of the celebrated “Jumping Frog” story in Clapp’s Saturday Press — the young Mark Twain’s first giant step toward national renown.
maybe giant step could be “jump”…as in frogs…i know nada about san fran, i am working on the boston one, but i do read these from time to time…so if you spoke of frogs before, I do sincerely apologize. i did a little googling and there were/are frogs in lily pond in golden gate park, in fact they were a problem as of recent, or still are..when i did the street view from nancy pelosi dr i could see that tower structure with the three high posts.
just sharing

Have at it
http://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/ma … frogs.html
I don’t think anyone will ever nail down the Twain’s attention, except by reverse engineering a successful dig. Pick any square mile in the U.S. and there’s almost certainly something that Twain wrote or thought or lived that has to do with it. So far, it just seems to be arbitrary support for whatever theory is constructed. Like nobody’s said, “I was following what I thought was the sure path, but then I decided it was wrong because there was no object of Twain’s attention somewhere.”

strike13

are there areas
of
golden gate park near your spot that are known to have frogs? jumping frogs did catch the attention
of
twain, leading him to write…
an article also uses giant steps in reference to the frogs:
That was in December, 1864. He went to Angel’s Camp in Calaveras County, where he did a little gold mining and listened to the old miners spin yarns. In his notebook for that period, we find one
of
these yarns summarized: “Coleman with his jumping frog—bet stranger $50—stranger had no frog, and C. got him one:—in the meantime stranger filled C’s frog full
of
shot and he couldn’t jump. The stranger’s frog won.” After Twain’s return to San Francisco, Artemus Ward, who was in town on a visit, suggested he ought to submit something to one
of
the eastern publications; so Twain wrote this anecdote up in tall-tale style and sent it off. It was printed in the Saturday Press on November 18, 1865. It was his first work to appear in a national publication, and it immediately made his name. The nation’s fancy was tickled by this drawling tale
of
the famous jumping frog.
For a writer there are apt to be two places that have a special importance in his life. One is the place where he was brought up and formed the impressions that, in various guises, will be the basic material he will draw on. The other is the place where he first discovers his vocation. For Twain this place was San Francisco; it was here that he came to the realization, comparatively late in life, that he was not really going to be a river-boat pilot or a printer or a miner or any
of
the other things he had tried. What he was going to be was a writer.
Twain left San Francisco about a year after the publication
of
“The Jumping Frog.”
came from here
https://www.americanheritage.com/conten … -francisco
also in another article said this about twain.. Charles Pfaff’s beer cellar on lower Broadway was the favored haunt
of
a mid-19th-century bohemian coterie that included Walt Whitman, editor Henry Clapp, Jr., and the country’s favorite humorist, Artemus Ward; Ward’s friendship and support led directly to publication
of
the celebrated “Jumping Frog” story in Clapp’s Saturday Press — the young Mark Twain’s first giant step toward national renown.
maybe giant step could be “jump”…as in frogs…
i
know nada about san fran,
i
am working on the boston one, but
i
do read these from time to time…so if you spoke
of
frogs before,
I
do sincerely apologize.
i
did a little googling and there were/are frogs in lily pond in golden gate park, in fact they were a problem as
of
recent, or still are..when
i
did the street view from nancy pelosi dr
i
could see that tower structure with the three high posts.
just sharing

Have at it
http://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/ma … frogs.html
I
don’t think anyone will ever nail down the Twain’s attention, except by reverse engineering a successful dig. Pick any square mile in the U.S. and there’s almost certainly something that Twain wrote or thought or lived that has to do with it. So far, it just seems to be arbitrary support for whatever theory is constructed. Like nobody’s said, “
I
was following what
I
thought was the sure path, but then
I
decided it was wrong because there was no object
of
Twain’s attention somewhere.”

JoshCornell1

i def got it.

you keep asking others to share theirs, feel free to share yours.

JoshCornell1

i
def got it.

you keep asking others to share theirs, feel free to share yours.

maltedfalcon

you keep asking others to share theirs, feel free to share yours.

Some chance. Josh’s main purpose for being on this board is to piss people off as thoroughly as possible, and that’s one thing he’s very good at.

(yes, we really are having more of a discussion about the verse now, in the image thread, oh well)
I like wondering about the local team, the San Francisco Giants, and what kind of deliberate double meaning is being used here. It is unlikely to be a coincidence, but it would have been risky to use something as ephemeral as a banner or sign as a clue. However, is there such a measurement as a “step” in baseball? Taking a “Giant’s step” could be the distance from home plate to first base, for example.

(yes, we really are having more
of
a discussion about the verse now, in the image thread, oh well)
I
like wondering about the local team, the San Francisco Giants, and what kind
of
deliberate double meaning is being used here. It is unlikely to be a coincidence, but it would have been risky to use something as ephemeral as a banner or sign as a clue. However, is there such a measurement as a “step” in baseball? Taking a “Giant’s step” could be the distance from home plate to first base, for example.

Goonie68

You mean these holes?
https://www.flickr.com/photos/138281177@N05/39494690445/in/dateposted-public/

interestingly enough, those are not my holes, my holes healed over quite a few years back and had been replanted with grass seed by the friendly helpful groundskeepers.

Unknown

Unknown:
“Giant step” gives no horizontal direction whatsoever and it would be a 360 degree crap shoot from the “pole”, would it not? Am I missing something there?

I’m not a fan of the “find the correct (vertical) giant pole in SF and you’ve solved the puzzle” school of thought, but if that turns out to be the solution, the “giant step” would presumably be in the direction of the “object of Twain’s attention”. If a step is about 30″, then a “giant step” would be in the 3-5 foot range, which would narrow down the dig spot considerably. Unless it is a pier sunk directly into the ground, a “giant” pole would probably have a significant concrete foundation, so moving the digger a few feet away from the base makes sense.

Great work!
Have you considered knocking out a few holes around the senior center while these new landmarks are developing into a theory? I know Goonie thought it would be weird for BP to dig by a flagpole but GGP let Maltedfalcon dig there. I just feel there might be more to the ~3 door-image matches and ~3 flagpole-image matches than just a starting spot

drunknerds

GGP let Maltedfalcon dig there.

actually for that dig i just asked at the senior center.
the person i asked was a metal detetctorist
so I got lucky

The smaller building that is boarded up near the carousel. What is it? Ticket booth? Concession stand? Maintenance shed?

I like the idea of the casque being in that end of the park… At one point I thought that “High posts are three” talked about the field goals at Kesar.

Choice

It seems like Mark has lost control of this forum. 11 of 20 front page threads are porn now. Are we under threat of getting hacked or infected?

Off-topic, but still a hilarious memory. I run an ARG (pretty much like the games Werewolf or Mafia). In 2008, I wrote an article for Gamespy and I linked to a novel I was writing and storing on my ARG board, just because I had nowhere else to store it. Russian porn bots somehow migrated from Gamespy to my boards, to my current ARG. It was funny at first, but we eventualy had to nuke the whole board when the bots figured out how to get into our root shit.
Internet 2.0 had a lot of issues, and it’s nice to remember these tragedies as humorous indicators that we should be quite wary of Internet 2.0 stuff. My rule is: just don’t link to a site associated with you personally. Imgur: Cool. Google: Cool. My own folder of pictures from my vacation to SF: Probably gonna get ganked by a slow-moving porn bot,

where would you be coming from?

I just re-read this thread from the beginning and did not see this mentioned. The photo is one of the lions at the entrance to Sutro Heights.

jimerson – more lion statues, and yet another floral clock! I’d never heard of those things before, and this hunt has introduced me to 3 floral clocks.

The old DeYoung museum that was demolished in 1990. I am still trying to find a photo with better details of the windows.

http://www.nps.gov/archive/goga/clho/suhe/index.htm

jimerson

I just re-read this thread from the beginning and did not see this mentioned. The photo is one of the lions at the entrance to Sutro Heights.

not sure I see your lion in the rocks…think maybe I can kind of see what may be his outstretched paw but that is it.  Can anyone work their magic and outline the supposed lion?

Well I will be happy to measure anything you want when I go back in Feb.
And I do believe there is geometry involved in the casque placement.
but I think its a straight line.
straight line from the arch through the flagpole to Fort Point.  (Mark Twain, The San Francisco Daily Morning Call, July 14, 1864, “INSPECTION OF THE FORTIFICATIONS”).
The giant step is the step down from the parking lot.
After speaking with the groundskeeper, He was pretty sure we didn’t dig deep enough,
So I plan to go back and dig a very big hole right there.

Is it possible to sit on the Joan of Arc horse to take a photo of the fountain?  I’m interested in that angle as it might be the antipode of an imaginary sphere.  I think the casque might fit a dark side of the moon idea if we are looking at a spot below the giant step where we don’t have eyes on the fountain or Joan of arc.  The problem is finding the center of this sphere.  I think you can get around all kinds of funky math by just counting steps to the middle of the Sweet Arch and then turning 90 degrees and counting steps to this center point,  Pass the same number of steps beyond and traverse 90 degrees to the hillside below to get to casque.

Digging deeper: the casques were buried no more than 3 feet deep, according to the book. In 30 years, this may have sunk a bit, but it’s unlikely it sunk that much unless the area was flooded or the ground was very porous and took on a lot of water. In which case, there might not be a casque to dig UP.

shecrab

Digging deeper: the casques were buried no more than 3 feet deep, according to the book. In 30 years, this may have sunk a bit, but it’s unlikely it sunk that much unless the area was flooded or the ground was very porous and took on a lot of water. In which case, there might not be a casque to dig UP.

or as in the case of the area I am looking in.
“Hey you know they have dumped dirt here in the past…”
When they put in the irrigation lines, its easier to lay the line and then bury it then just dig a trench first…

malt, if you strike oil, I want a cut.

The historic  lamp posts downtown had me systematically running down all the parks and places where trolleys might lead.  I only landed on Lincoln Park after Malted answered the question to where other places posts might be found.  Slowly as I worked through my bag of odd seeming ideas I really liked most the Emily Post idea with etiquette being an interconnecting theme with Tea time and Tee time.  My basic sense is the many “moons” idea and the “smells sweet” with Gh gave us strong evidence to go to the Ghiradelli and Obsrvatory area, which I then decided was a path start and chosen to double as a way of connecting to the end point, becoming the sugar entrance to the PotLoH and then golf balls in Lincoln Park Golf Course where the matter of etiquette applies to a Post.  I don’t just propose there is a geometric method in this image.  I’ve found the use of perspective for the rendering of this image does more than come from some random Polaroids in the area.  There is an exact mathematical approach to processing the respective angles and dimensions of objects in order to find the position where BP stood.  This will reveal the image’s most significant picture, containing the barred window/door, the fountain, the lamp post, and a borrowed person.  Known measurements would be helpful to me.  I’d like to know how many paces it takes to walk around the fountain and how wide the is the sweet entryway to The PotLoH.  I’m absolutely NOT saying BP intended us to use math.  It can be used in a virtual test to outline a rough idea of where to dig.  I’m sure you can stand on a specific spot and with the help of another person as a stand in for the robed woman you will see a very good match to the general outline of of the image.  The only drawback is seeing through hill and foliage.

Has this face been noticed before. It’s under and to the left of the stone door.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/czo6yn49jey7m … 4.jpg?dl=0

Howardjthomas

Has this face been noticed before. It’s under and to the left of the stone door.
https://www.dropbox.com/s/czo6yn49jey7m … 4.jpg?dl=0

Yes, by me and others, and posted about in these forums. Yes, it’s a slog to go back to read pages and pages of old theories, but I did post a photograph of an area of exposed rock along the highway near the Cliff house. The texture matches. (Here’s the link for the comparison, to save everyone the trouble of backtracking.)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/138673403 … 785875549/

adastra

Looks like Fay Park was a private residence until it was donated to the city in 1998. Also there were renovations in 2005.
http://sfrecpark.org/destination/fay-park/
https://tclf.org/landscapes/fay-park

Adastra, thank for the info. I know where this rookie made his mistake. I first looked to see if the park met the time requirement and noticed that the designer Thomas Church had been designing gardens up until 1978. Then I just took off and ran with it, back to the drawing board.
MrBackstop

bbi

This is a nice little booklet that was provided by the GGNRA in 1979 outlining their parks etc. Gives a good idea of what was accessible at the time and the types of activities provided in certain parks.
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1kfm1Z … zc-1QHGZ-9

Great resource of information! The brochure really makes Alcatraz a really good fit for Education and Justice, by what was written in the booklet,
“Alcatraz can provide an excellent educational outing, school groups can explore.
This kind of material would of resonated with BP as he was a teacher and possible used what was thought in (local) Jr /High school as clues to the verse.
Its resources like this that might of played a part in BP doing his research for the path to the casque.

Quick follow-up to the previous post on St.Mary’s square…apparently there’s also a “White House” right across the street from the statue that WhiteRabbit found. It looks to be a public parking garage now, but it’s apparently also some kind of historic SF landmark which might further suggest an I1/V6 pairing. Link:
http://thewhitehousegaragesf.com
Also: just learned that Title 8 of the US code deals with the role of aliens and nationality in the United States, and Chapter 8 of this code specifically deals with Chinese immigrants. No joke…this is officially titled as “The Cooly Trade”.
Link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_8_o … tates_Code
Could the Chinese Exclusion Act, enacted in 1882 and repealed in 1943, possible be the inspiration for the couplet “Or on the eighth a scene / Where law defended”? Again, unsure if there’s any historical markers or similar nearby, but it seems to fit well with both I1 and the immigration theme.
Also interesting: The adjacent park from St. Mary’s, the Union Square shopping area, was built up over a sand dune… (Link:
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/arti … 731306.php
)

Goldengate

I’ve looked around and haven’t seen any previous reference as to what may be TWO NEW POSSIBLE CLUES I’ve just noticed in Image One. (Please forgive me, but I have searched here and on the Wiki, but these have not been addressed as I will below)
#1 Flip Image One on her head, and read the Roman numerals on the left hand side. One of those images will be VI… what’s interesting about this is that’s where the SIXTH and Fulton pedestrian entrance is located in relation to what many (including me) consider to be a representation of Stow Lake.
In 1981, the park closed the 6th Ave entrance to vehicles… so the pedestrian entrance was BRAND… SPANKING… NEW… as was the Chinese Pavilion. Anytime something is new in GGP, they make a big deal of it… I can imagine Preiss using new permanent fixtures at the park as markers.
I’m not saying this is a home run clue, but as a guy who lived in San Francisco for many years, this seems like a very cool, not coincidental fit. Priess obviously meant this challenge to be accomplished while getting outside and walking. There are many entrances to GGP, but this one, is a formal pedestrian entrance, with a small entry plaza with small curved walls which you walk between to gain access to the park, just down from Stow Lake. Also, there’s an old plaque on the left hand wall… just saying’…
if this is actually a real clue, it may represent Preiss’ intended starting point — and the subsequent clues may unfold from this entry to the ultimate casque location.
#2 There has been much discussion as to the blocks on the cuffs of the woman’s robe. But forget which block she’s pointing at. One sleeve has 18 blocks. The other sleeve has 20 blocks. If you draw two lines across the park at 18th and 20th Avenues, you will include the “top” of Stow Lake as it is illustrated in the picture… also included is the area on both sides of Crossover Drive… and Prayerbook Cross also fits neatly in there.
I’ve got a squirmy three year old kid and a job in in LA, so odds are I won’t be be running up there to dig… but I hope this helps someone who has boots on the ground!

Thanks for the tip! thinking of talking the family into a road trip to try and find the casque, but I’ll add these to my notes I’ve started!

I don’t know how you include an image with your message, but would love to know.
Anyway, I see the hand holding the pine cone from John McLaren Monument in the center of the Image 1. Area of snake unlike other. Also blue glow around the female figure mimicks the silouette of John McKinnon Statue in GGP. So, verse 5 MAY still apply to Image 1.

AlaskaCasqueFinder

I don’t know how you include an image with your message, but would love to know.

you can even do gif

Go,Go,Go,Go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Living vicariously, waiting with bated breath.
Good luck MF!

I
agree with Falcon, preiss buried these so they could be dug up again.
I
don’t think giant step was a “take a step” type
of
step.. it was more
of
a “look, there’s a giant step” type
of
step (perhaps a concrete step around a flagpole type
of
thing.
wilhouse
__________________________________
Byron Preiss, you will not be forgotten

I agree with Falcon, preiss buried these so they could be dug up again.
I don’t think giant step was a “take a step” type of step.. it was more of a “look, there’s a giant step” type of step (perhaps a concrete step around a flagpole type of thing.
wilhouse
__________________________________
Byron Preiss, you will not be forgotten

Interesting idea.
There are cathedrals nearby, but coincidentalyy they are in the same direction as Milan. (northwest)
basically the whole passage by twain is speaking specifcally about the Milan Cathedral.
the next question would be how tall was the totem pole in 1982, becauase as rot set in they would periodially lift the totem pole
and chainsaw off the bottom. So over time the totem pole got shorter.
one thing is in another thread somebody noticed that in the chicago and cleveland finds – both were buried next to something
making it easier to locate (BP obviously took photos after he buried the casques) 24 feet out from the totem pole would be
down a hill and into the grass. and in an extremely visible area, and difficult to exactly place without anything right nearby to reference from.  Remember in chicago even with the photo
of
the burial site they almost missed it.

Interesting idea.
There are cathedrals nearby, but coincidentalyy they are in the same direction as Milan. (northwest)
basically the whole passage by twain is speaking specifcally about the Milan Cathedral.
the next question would be how tall was the totem pole in 1982, becauase as rot set in they would periodially lift the totem pole
and chainsaw off the bottom. So over time the totem pole got shorter.
one thing is in another thread somebody noticed that in the chicago and cleveland finds – both were buried next to something
making it easier to locate (BP obviously took photos after he buried the casques) 24 feet out from the totem pole would be
down a hill and into the grass. and in an extremely visible area, and difficult to exactly place without anything right nearby to reference from.  Remember in chicago even with the photo of the burial site they almost missed it.

Hi Malted,
Saw your post on the sad news page.  On a less somber note, nice find on the Twain passage.  In the spririt
of
honoring Preiss by pressing on in the hunt,
I
have two follow up questions:
Is the “architectural autocrat” the city or the cathedral?  If the latter, are there any local cathedral’s nearby that could be the object, rather than the cathedral in Milan?
It seems to me that “giant pole, giant step” might mean that you should “step” out exactly the same distance as the pole is high.  It’s probably a lot more digging, but have you considered looking 26 feet out from the center (or edge)
of
the base in any
of
your favorite directions?

Hi Malted,
Saw your post on the sad news page.  On a less somber note, nice find on the Twain passage.  In the spririt of honoring Preiss by pressing on in the hunt, I have two follow up questions:
Is the “architectural autocrat” the city or the cathedral?  If the latter, are there any local cathedral’s nearby that could be the object, rather than the cathedral in Milan?
It seems to me that “giant pole, giant step” might mean that you should “step” out exactly the same distance as the pole is high.  It’s probably a lot more digging, but have you considered looking 26 feet out from the center (or edge) of the base in any of your favorite directions?

that is a new twist on the pole & step debate spacecraft.
I
like it!  Your step should equal the pole…hmmm, interesting.

that is a new twist on the pole & step debate spacecraft.  I like it!  Your step should equal the pole…hmmm, interesting.

oh shit, i get it… I think…
The last step is an alignment of the month in one row, and then the size (11 08 04 05 12 07 01 03 09 02 10 06) in the row beneath.
Then, look at the month associated with each image. Look at the chart and the verse number that corresponds is the number below.
For instance:
Cleveland is March – move three letters over in row one, and then take the 04 in the row beneath.
Chicago is May – move 5 letters over in row one, and then take the 12 in the row beneath.
St. Augustine is September – move 9 letters over in row one, and then take the 09 in the row beneath.
etc.
I am trying to number the moons right now and see them in orbit… which is the part I am not getting.

image1 moons
Why are there 11 moons in the sky in this image?
I noticed that they are all different sizes. This allows them to be put in order say smallest 1 to largest 11:
I really want there to be 12. Then I realised that there is a size missing. It is size 9. How about the moon in image 11? Well, it seems to be a size 12 BUT the halo around the star on image 11 seems to be the correct size 9.
left to right:…………….. 1 8 11 5 4 12 7 6 3 10 2
clockwise left to right:…. 8 1 11 5 4 12 7 3 10 6 2
Now visualise the moons in say an orbit and maybe seen
from the rock window:……. 11 8 1 4 5 12 7 3 2 10 6
Now here are the verses in the order of the month
month/zodiac order………. J F M A M J J A S O N D
zodiac verse………………. 11 08 04 05 12 07 01 03 09 02 10 06
The error is number 1. It needs to be between moon 7 and 3, and 9 was missing but this does start to look like the confirmation of the pairing.
What if the star on image 11 is the correct size 1 to use? Then that would correct the discrepancy. It is also amazingly in the correct position between moon 7 and 3. The moon on image 11, and on the front cover, of the book is telling you where the sequence starts.
Verse 11 Roanoke Island ……..image 3
Verse 8 Milwaukee ………….image 10
Verse 4 Cleveland ………….Image 4
Verse 5 Charleston …………Image 2
Verse 12 Chicago ……………Image 5
Verse 7 San Francisco ………image 1
Verse 1 Houston ……………image 8
Verse 3 Boston …………….image 11
Verse 9 St Augustine ……….image 6
Verse 2 Montreal …………..image 9
Verse 10 New York …………..image 12
Verse 6 New Orleans ………..Image 7
which matches the order of the locations around the
zodiac image…………….03 10 04 02 05 01 08 11 06 09 12 07
(11160)

wk

Now visualise the moons in say an orbit and maybe seen
from the rock window:……. 11 8 1 4 5 12 7 3 2 10 6

This is really neat, but I am not quite clear what you mean by:…

wk, for a moment I thought you had something, but then it gets reachy. I do like the idea of the first image having some kind of greater purpose. I think the LotJ does that though. It helps correlate a little something for each jewel and fair folk type.
As for the many moons, i still have no idea why there are 11. One idea I belive has merit, fb mentioned this, the circle square square triangle near her shoulder and neckline could be symbolic for numbers: 1-4-4-3 according to number of sides. This could be two groups 14 and 43 and possibly reversed, so 41 and 34 maybe. When I read about Frank Morris’ escape from Alcatraz I almost got excited about his prisoner number which was 1441, because I thought maybe 1443 mightve been the prisoner number of one of the other two escapees, but no, they werent.
Its all puzzling. Its so hard to get comfortable with any interpretation. Im sure if we were provided with the correct solution we’d hate it all the same.

wk, this is quite amazing if it is correct. However, you lost me near the end. If you don’t mind, can you explain it a little clearer and slower?
How do you get from the order of the verses to match them with the images, at the end?
Also, what happens to the moon which was #1 originally (far left) ?
Where does the number 09 come in, between 3 and 2? How do you get it there?
The “orbit order” is not really from closest to farthest from the door, is it? It’s more like a “connect-the-dots” from left to right, isn’t it?
Any way to write numbers on the moons and explain this better? I’m really trying to understand it. Thanks.
Nice job!

It was a fold out map you could get in the park,
it was a free map
it was long and skinny, had 3 folds.

JoshCornell

thats cause its a different clue…

Do tell

just look for the neckline, its incredibly obvious…
or you could just ask malted cause he knows the answer.

maltedfalcon

in a 1980 tourist map of golden gate park when superimposed on the dress ,the G h line up with Great Highway-
the G in Great was upper case and the h in highway was lower case.
unfortunately I haven’t been able to find that map since the early 90s, (not that I am really trying, I’ve already seen it)
but most want to assume I am wrong, the map either doesn’t exist or it is not a match like I said.
and that it actually means Ghirrardelli
because the fonts seem to match
but if you actually compare the fonts the letters are actually quite dis-similar

I heard about this on the podcast, but what kind of tourist map was it? was it from ggp? was it a book or just a piece of paper? where did you saw it?
if you could give me a bit more details, I have ways to find it.
was it a multicolour map? You sure it’s a English(America) map? What else could you remember besides “Great hwy” ?
Just give me a bit more info on how to identify this map, I really want to see this map!

Hey Matt (this should be an app!)
Has anyone tried to get an image match to the cliffs at the Cliff House? I just have Google and some old postcards to work with.
https://tinyurl.com/y4zy4554

What’s up with the SF group. This place has gone silent. Can we get some updates on what people are working on. I and another member on this forum are going to be doing a little poking around in the GGP/Cliff House area towards the end of June. Hopefully we will have some good news.
I think Matt is still up at TLOH? Any updates. I think Goldengate is on strawberry hill somewhere by the Chinese pavilion?
Let’s get some updates from those who have not thrown in the towel. Let’s get some synergy going!
For those who have come up with a solution that makes digging not an alternative. I would urge them to try an alternate solution. Give it a go. Adapt! I thought some of my earlier solutions were 99.9 percent correct but found that the area had been dug up after 1982. So I moved on and was surprised that my new solution was even better than the prior one.

Rviewer1

What’s up with the SF group. This place has gone silent. Can we get some updates on what people are working on. I and another member on this forum are going to be doing a little poking around in the GGP/Cliff House area towards the end of June. Hopefully we will have some good news.
I think Matt is still up at TLOH? Any updates. I think Goldengate is on strawberry hill somewhere by the Chinese pavilion?
Let’s get some updates from those who have not thrown in the towel. Let’s get some synergy going!
For those who have come up with a solution that makes digging not an alternative. I would urge them to try an alternate solution. Give it a go. Adapt! I thought some of my earlier solutions were 99.9 percent correct but found that the area had been dug up after 1982. So I moved on and was surprised that my new solution was even better than the prior one.

Update: Image wall behind the Gal, Chalk Board, Chalk Boards are made out of Slate (stone) Maritime Museum entrance and walls are made out of Slate (stone) “At stone wall’s door”……
https://ibb.co/JHNVG8j
https://ibb.co/vsdF28H

Durian

Hi MrBackstop. Found an NPS doc saying the smokestack was removed in ’76. Doesn’t mean Preiss might not have referenced it anyway (or that the doc is wrong or off by a bit), but I’m still thinking the pole is the East speaker. Can’t cut and paste from the doc for some reason, but it’s on page 290 (I’m glad I’m getting some use from my tax dollars with all this searching, lol.):
https://www.nps.gov/parkhistory/online_ … ma/clr.pdf

There is a lot of great info in that document as well as some cool historic photos. So it could be that one of the towers is considered the Giant Pole or perhaps some other structure, I’ll check it out some more but it doesn’t change all the other clues that point to NMP.

I really like a lot of the ideas or possible matching being done on this image lately, but it’s been difficult to follow what coinstraint or reason any object reference fits a function of the puzzle.

Thanks for the link. I took some time reading it. I like how you begin with a good set of cautious ground rules and then get into the thick of it. Lots of guesses and it much seems convincing to me. There are countless pitfalls in how We approach the verse or image. Good luck.

I wouldn’t use “Bay Area in general” as a theme at all. As a resident of the South Bay region, I am closer to Mt.Hamilton and the Lick Observatory than I am to SFO, let alone the Golden Gate. Landmarks beyond a 25-mile radius from San Francisco would be misleading; beyond 50 miles, useless; beyond 75 miles, well, bad puzzle design.

very well done, to show my appreciation of the hard work you’ve done,
hope you like it~
“
At stone wall’s door
The air smells sweet
“

pay attention and look closely to these pics my friend

JamesV

My 1982 copy is definitely a hardcover… but now you’ve got me thinking that it might be a re-bound trade paperback.

check the isbn – 0-553-01408-0
was a trade paper – if yours is that it started life as a paperback
but actually what I think it is is before it was re-published in 2015, somebody had scanned it and was selling Print on Demand versions. so I think your hardback is a bootleg POD copy of the original..

Durian

Got it, re: Polk. Clever!
I’m curious about the rest of your solve? Are you and I both still ending up at the wall near the blue tiles and the east bleachers? I get to the speaker tower near the end (giant pole), but you get there earlier (sounds from the sky). Where are you ending up, and how?
Also, I may be taking a trip to SF in a month. If not, my wife will be… I’ll get a bunch of good photos around the speakers/bleachers, Maritime Museum, etc. Do you have any requests?

I’m going to post my solve here shortly. Still checking a couple things out and yes, I am definitely in the middle of National Maritime Park. My solve just took a different route starting at Pier 43.

can anyone with the actual book confirm that right between C and D, from the left, there’s a horizontal line going across?