I have a copy. There is a line, but it looks to be a printing issue and not part of the painted image.

intrigued

I have a copy. There is a line, but it looks to be a printing issue and not part of the painted image.

And your copy was original right? not the kindle or whatever it’s called version.
There IS a line? Right?

and also is this a right or left page?
what image is behind this page, and what’s next to this page?
Thanks for really looking into it btw, much appreciated.

The original image has a “fold” line there (you can see it on the TV show)
although I don’t think it is a fold line. I think the original painting was done on a 24×36 (canvas) posterboard.
and the area above the line is actually a second added piece of posterboard used to extend the “canvas”

maltedfalcon

The original image has a “fold” line there (you can see it on the TV show)
although I don’t think it is a fold line. I think the original painting was done on a 24×36 (canvas) posterboard.
and the area above the line is actually a second added piece of posterboard used to extend the “canvas”

what TV show? EU S4, Ep4?
No, impossible, only reason to add a poster board on top of a canvas was to create this arch top shape frame.
If what you suggest is the case, how come we don’t see a line in image12 ?
so I saw this pdf with photos of the original 1892 hardcover version form the library.
umm………interesting

Spiritr

what TV show? EU S4, Ep4?
No, impossible, only reason to add a poster board on top of a canvas was to create this arch top shape frame.
If what you suggest is the case, how come we don’t see a line in image12 ?
so I saw this pdf with photos of the original 1892 hardcover version form the library.
umm………interesting

I suspect he learned from the first painting that he would need to paint smaller or use a bigger canvas… also we know that the paintings were not all the same size.
if it wasn’t added then it was simply folded. (added seems more likely to me…)
FYI there was no original hardcover edition.
it was a trade paperback only

Thanks you, great info.

I want an 1892 hardcover version….

if you really have one at that time…..
will you tear out a page if instructed to?

maltedfalcon

FYI there was no original hardcover edition.
it was a trade paperback only

My 1982 copy is definitely a hardcover… but now you’ve got me thinking that it might be a re-bound trade paperback.

Here is an inspirational article that I found while investigating the history of Golden Gate Park. I like the last sentence.
http://www.foundsf.org/index.php?title=The_Statue_of_a_Heroic_Crusader_who_Spent_his_Life_Fighting_to_Keep_Statues_out_of_Golden_Gate_Park.
John McLaren statue, McLaren Rhododendron Dell, Golden Gate Park. John McLaren, Supervisor of Golden Gate Park from 1890 until his death in 1943, detested statues. He hated them with such a passion that he defied the City authorities and persisted in his lifelong crusade to keep Golden Gate Park statue-free. It is fitting, then, that for his efforts McLaren was immortalized in the form of–what else? –a statue, which may be found near the entrance to the Rhododendron Dell that bears his name. Interestingly, the McLaren statue is placed at the very back of a hedged-off grassy space, far from the gaze of visitors. Perhaps those responsible for the statue felt a tinge of guilt. By attempting to conceal the McLaren statue, they were following McLaren’s own policy of “if you can’t beat ’em, hide ’em.” When McLaren lost his battles against those who wanted to erect a statue, he exacted revenge by re-arranging the park to make the statue as unobtrusive as possible. Usually he did so by planting trees, shrubs, and assorted verdant objects on all sides of the offending idol. To this day, most of the dozens of statues that grace (or deface) Golden Gate Park are so well-concealed by McLaren’s greenery that few visitors even suspect their existence. If you boldly follow the less-trodden paths through the eastern half of the park, you will undoubtedly experience the thrill of blundering upon some of the hidden statues. Like the explorers who discovered the overgrown ruins of ancient Mayan temples, you will marvel at nature’s (and, in this case, McLaren’s) power to take back what civilization has wrought.
–Dr. Weirde

slappybuns

“POLES”

giant bamboo, giant pole

I understood that the giant pole was “The Goddess of the Forest” 26 feet tall and 21 feet girth at base, carved by Dudley C Carter in 1939 but was moved in 1986 as it was rotting away. Where was it in the park?
Also, the park was wrecked by a storm in 1995.

scottrocks7

The casque would be found when they put the irrigation line in.
The casque could be behind or to the side of the totem poll
After we eliminate the totem poll as the possible location we should try again to dig in the tea garden. If the tea garden is the location then it is possible that the casque is under a stepping stone.
I still think the Japanese theme of the image was to eliminate any about about the tea garden being the location. m

I spoke with the people who put in the irrigation line. They used a ditch digger that had a 10 foot digging wheel on it. It can easily dig through asphalt and roadway. It has no trouble digging through loose gravel or sand, It’ pulverizes rocks the size of basketballs. If it had gone through the area of the casque, the casque would have been turned into small pieces the size of quarters and dimes…  If anyone noticed it coming out of the dirt chute, it would have looked like trash…
The dirt is displaced between 5 and 15 feet laterally and put into a pile that runs along side the trench.
when the pipe is laid the dirt is then just pushed back into the hole.
This means that if some one wanted to, they could dig up a 30 foot section of pipe and sift the dirt for the pieces… The workers could not remember which way they were running the digger, East or west…
FYI I have dug entirely around the perimeter of the base out to 5 feet  (thats a lot of digging)
When you dig in the most likely place you find an irrigation pipe…
The theme of the image is Chinese ,not Japanese, the dress and dragon is Chinese style and the woman has Chinese features.  The wall and gate that surround the tea garden is wooden not stone, and didn’t  BP say  he didnt bury any casques in gardens?

scottrocks7

The casque would be found when they put the irrigation line in.
The casque could be behind or to the side
of
the totem poll
After we eliminate the totem poll as the possible location we should try again to dig in the tea garden. If the tea garden is the location then it is possible that the casque is under a stepping stone.
I
still think the Japanese theme
of
the image was to eliminate any about about the tea garden being the location. m

I
spoke with the people who put in the irrigation line. They used a ditch digger that had a 10 foot digging wheel on it. It can easily dig through asphalt and roadway. It has no trouble digging through loose gravel or sand, It’ pulverizes rocks the size
of
basketballs. If it had gone through the area
of
the casque, the casque would have been turned into small pieces the size
of
quarters and dimes…  If anyone noticed it coming out
of
the dirt chute, it would have looked like trash…
The dirt is displaced between 5 and 15 feet laterally and put into a pile that runs along side the trench.
when the pipe is laid the dirt is then just pushed back into the hole.
This means that if some one wanted to, they could dig up a 30 foot section
of
pipe and sift the dirt for the pieces… The workers could not remember which way they were running the digger, East or west…
FYI
I
have dug entirely around the perimeter
of
the base out to 5 feet  (thats a lot
of
digging)
When you dig in the most likely place you find an irrigation pipe…
The theme
of
the image is Chinese ,not Japanese, the dress and dragon is Chinese style and the woman has Chinese features.  The wall and gate that surround the tea garden is wooden not stone, and didn’t  BP say  he didnt bury any casques in gardens?

The casque would be found when they put the irigation line in. It is possible that the casque was found then and it was not knowen what they had. This idea should be looked into also if one of the verses seenms to fit the totem pole area it may be worth pokeing around the totem pole area. If the construction people did not find the casque and pokeing around the totem poll comes up empty then the possibility that the Tea Garden is the location greatly increases.
The casque could be behind or to the side of the totem poll
After we eliminate the totem poll as the possible location we should try again to dig in the tea garden. If the tea garden is the location then it is possible that the casque is under a steping stone.
I still think the Japanese theam of the image was to eliminate any dbout about the tea garden being the location. It is also possible the iron gate door in the image may not be Alcatraz but rather the emtry to the tea garden.
The way I interpet the image is this way. The lattitude and longitude are in the hair the G and H anre the city ID the crossed arms are a representation of Guardian of the Forest Totem Poll to ID the park. The kimono pateren is a map of GGP and the iron gate door is the entry to the tea garden. The door could be the image to verse connecter “stone walls gate” a torch like thoes in the tea garden forms the base of the table and the Japanese theam of the picture was to end any dbout along the you could not get in lines.
Also if any place in GGP had guest books it would be interesting to see if BP signed. This would be somewhat of a search but he may have signed the tea garden guest book when he went in to get pictures for JJp to use in the image. Just a guess.

The casque would be found when they put the irigation line in. It is possible that the casque was found then and it was not knowen what they had. This idea should be looked into also if one
of
the verses seenms to fit the totem pole area it may be worth pokeing around the totem pole area. If the construction people did not find the casque and pokeing around the totem poll comes up empty then the possibility that the Tea Garden is the location greatly increases.
The casque could be behind or to the side
of
the totem poll
After we eliminate the totem poll as the possible location we should try again to dig in the tea garden. If the tea garden is the location then it is possible that the casque is under a steping stone.
I
still think the Japanese theam
of
the image was to eliminate any dbout about the tea garden being the location. It is also possible the iron gate door in the image may not be Alcatraz but rather the emtry to the tea garden.
The way
I
interpet the image is this way. The lattitude and longitude are in the hair the G and H anre the city ID the crossed arms are a representation
of
Guardian
of
the Forest Totem Poll to ID the park. The kimono pateren is a map
of
GGP and the iron gate door is the entry to the tea garden. The door could be the image to verse connecter “stone walls gate” a torch like thoes in the tea garden forms the base
of
the table and the Japanese theam
of
the picture was to end any dbout along the you could not get in lines.
Also if any place in GGP had guest books it would be interesting to see if BP signed. This would be somewhat
of
a search but he may have signed the tea garden guest book when he went in to get pictures for JJp to use in the image. Just a guess.

Unknown

Unknown:
and didn’t  BP say  he didnt bury any casques in gardens?

Specifically, he said he did not bury anything in a public or private
flower bed.

Goldengate

Here are two examples of the dozens of Triratna symbols easily seen inside the GGP Chinese Pavilion. I’m not insisting the casque is there… or that it’s even in GGP, but to date, this is the only symbol on the dress found in GGP — that I’m aware of. (The Chinese Pavilion was dedicated in 1981 — the year BP buried the casques and was a heavily publicized new attraction to the park)
IMAGE 1:
CHINESE PAVILION:

Nice find. ..its possible that the X and “upside IV” Refer to 10th ave and 4th ave surrounding GGP.

Goldengate

To post images, use a BB image uploading site — I don’t think the uploading feature works internally.

Here’s the inverted image overlayed using the Yin Yang symbol as the anchor point.
https://bit.ly/2K4bqlr
Here’s the same image with the text highlighted. BP used the dragon’s feet to provide the unit of measurement: feet.
https://bit.ly/2MHgHxJ

Durian

Look again. A fact is a fact. We can disagree over their meanings, but these are USGS symbols. If you choose to deny them, you aren’t agreeing to disagree—you are in some type of denial:

Correct.
Facts are facts: You’re a sarcastic prick.
So, by all means, post your novel (the one that has had 4 different endings that are *obviously* the correct dig spot) again, as if we didn’t read it the first 50 times you posted it during your desperate pursuit of malted’s agreement, validation and approval.

My friend tells me Le’nardo invented the circumcision of sarcastic picks.
So that series of symbols as markers helps us how?

Durian

Look again. A fact is a fact. We can disagree over their meanings, but these are USGS symbols. If you choose to deny them, you aren’t agreeing to disagree—you are in some type of denial:

You are absolutely correct, my printed copy does not have them but when I blow up the pdf, they are there.

A different view of the symbols
Possibly Masonic symbols, the G looks very like the G in the Freemason symbol, the square with a dot or circle could be a mason Square circle, the triangle possibly The eye of Providence (triangle with dot) these symbols are connected to a street in SF, with the addition of Yin and Yang, the circle or trefoil pattern.

Durian

I don’t need Malted or anyone’s approval.

Durian

I’m trying to cooperatively solve the puzzle.

Durian

Apparently defending something that obvious warrants the title of prick?

Ah….right.
He
finally
agreed with you on something.
So now, you’re civil to him…??
The way you respond whenever he (or, others) disagree with you states otherwise. You want people to agree with you.
Period.
It’s not the content of what you post….it’s the tone of the response when you “defend” against a disagreement. That’s what warrants the title.

Goldengate

So funny you should mention this! I was thinking this morning about that — specifically the Scottish Rite Masonic Center on 19th which has detailed mosaics of many masonic symbols displayed across the front facade. Also it’s directly across from Stern Grove (one of the coolest parks in San Francisco for those who have not visited)… personally I’d love if the casque was buried there but nothing I can think of points to it — that said, worth a visit for those passing through — especially during the summer concert season!

Here are a few of those symbols…like you said, not a match, but interesting, imho:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/14696209@N02/24762776421/

mlsinstl

Here’s the inverted image overlayed using the Yin Yang symbol as the anchor point.
https://bit.ly/2K4bqlr
Here’s the same image with the text highlighted. BP used the dragon’s feet to provide the unit of measurement: feet.
https://bit.ly/2MHgHxJ

mlsinstl, very interesting!
Photoshop wasn’t created until ’87…..PC’s didn’t become ‘commonplace’ until the mid-’90’s.
I’m curious — how would somebody (an average reader, with one copy of the book) have created that type of transparent overlay, in the early ’80’s?
And….although he’s an incredible artist…do you really think JJP is
that
good to have painted that in the perfect position, by hand, so that it could be discovered decades later in the 21st century?

Something to think about….The Masonic on California street, before was once owned by Alban Towne (a Freemason)
And once stood his mansion, which was destroyed in the 1906 earthquake with the only thing left standing the Colum’s of the entry way which is now in GGP
And is know as the Iconic image of the Portals of the past. Gman on this site pointed this out, This would connect the triangle with dot to GGP via the Portals of the Past.

Mister EZ

mlsinstl, very interesting!
Photoshop wasn’t created until ’87…..PC’s didn’t become ‘commonplace’ until the mid-’90’s.
I’m curious — how would somebody (an average reader, with one copy of the book) have created that type of transparent overlay, in the early ’80’s?
And….although he’s an incredible artist…do you really think JJP is
that
good to have painted that in the perfect position, by hand, so that it could be discovered decades later in the 21st century?

I’ve thought about that. Plastic overhead transparencies were available in 1982. I used them on other treasure hunts like the Alchemist Dar before I had Photoshop. Besides, hasn’t anyone else wondered why the dragon’s feet were such odd shapes?
Additionally, it’s absolutely crucial to pinpoint the dig. I have a complete solution that includes direction and distance from pole and you need to know that the distance is in feet.

mlsinstl

I’ve thought about that. Plastic overhead transparencies were available in 1982. I used them on other treasure hunts like the Alchemist Dar before I had Photoshop.
Besides, hasn’t anyone else wondered why the dragon’s feet were such odd shapes?
Additionally, it’s absolutely crucial to pinpoint the dig. I have a complete solution that includes direction and distance from pole and you need to know that the distance is in feet.

I just thought it suffered from bunions.
;-]
But, good answer. I remember overhead transparencies.
Somebody with awesome tracing skills might have been able to create the overlay.
However, I don’t think JJP is that skilled to have included it as part of the image clues. (Sorry, JJP….)
Still…I hope you’re right.
Good luck on your hunt….cheers!

mlsinstl

Plastic overhead transparencies were available in 1982.

but not color or even B&W copying onto overhead, simple tracing would have been all that was available.

the dragons claws make a cb (china beach), where you learn part of the immigration story.

This is the wierd shape over the shoulder of the woman in pix 1
it sort of matches the lower half of north lake…
and this is the image of lincoln in the hills.

john256

Thank you cw0909–that site looks helpful.
I decided the background around the dragon looks like the tree background on the map of Golden Gate park posted earlier, so I’m pretty convinced it does represent the park, but I haven’t been able to match the shape of the dragon to any of the roads through the park as I thought others had been able to do.  Can anyone match specific features?  One loop in the center does seem to align with Strawberry Hill but that’s about all I could find.
John

Remember to reverse the map so that the Gh are forward, then yes, many features of the map from the Great Highway, – to the polo field to strawberry hill and others line up…
especially the outline of the park, it fits the map perfect( The outside edge of GGpark is not a perfect rectangle)

john256

Thank you cw0909–that site looks helpful.
I
decided the background around the dragon looks like the tree background on the map
of
Golden Gate park posted earlier, so
I
‘m pretty convinced it does represent the park, but
I
haven’t been able to match the shape
of
the dragon to any
of
the roads through the park as
I
thought others had been able to do.  Can anyone match specific features?  One loop in the center does seem to align with Strawberry Hill but that’s about all
I
could find.
John

Remember to reverse the map so that the Gh are forward, then yes, many features
of
the map from the Great Highway, – to the polo field to strawberry hill and others line up…
especially the outline
of
the park, it fits the map perfect( The outside edge
of
GGpark is not a perfect rectangle)

Spiritr

looking for parking now

How did the dig go?

Unknown

Unknown:
Wonder if he’ll join the rest of the hall-of-shame members that seemingly vanish after digging up nothing.

There is no shame in an empty hole. It’s the second best way I know to advance the puzzle.

oh crap,
I think I just figured out where the SF casque is….
I think I will be heading to SF next week…

not totally definite, but a better idea than I’ve had in a couple years…

I think the key for this image is the stem of the table outlined in blue. The table with the watch and the rose. I am not convinced it is the outline of a cable car. I think it is a real land mark that might be gone now. It is too specific a shape.

With all this hoax talk I noticed something on the Giuseppe Verdi Monument – could be nothing:
EDIT
– Nevermind that 3 for March, those are the LONG/LAT coordinates

Jordan

With all this hoax talk I noticed something on the Giuseppe Verdi Monument – could be nothing:
EDIT
– Nevermind that 3 for March, those are the LONG/LAT coordinates

that and I am pretty sure the plaque was added when the statue was refurbished
also I think the date on the plaque is wrong…

maltedfalcon

that and I am pretty sure the plaque was added when the statue was refurbished
also I think the date on the plaque is wrong…

Ah, thanks for the info!

Reporter claims a cable company with ground penetrating radar knows where it is. States this near 2:17 in the video. Can we find out where they have been working?
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2019/03/04/treasure-hunters-san-francisco-golden-gate-park/
He also says if you have any ideas on the location he will get dig permits for you.

maltedfalcon

that and I am pretty sure the plaque was added when the statue was refurbished
also I think the date on the plaque is wrong…

1914?

Choice

1914?

yea off the top of my head. I think the plaque was off by a year or so…

https://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/g … 20111.html

im pretty sure if you draw a line from the arch to the center of the fountain and keep going it would go through the site of the giant flagpole
then keep going over the railing (to the spot of the casque) and then if you keep going straight you run right into
Fort Point the object of twains attention.  a straight line
All your image manipulation still needs to come back to from the flagpole to the casque is in the direction of an object of twains attention
your spot by the path isnt, is it?

No, but I don’t follow the same interpretation.  What I have done is identify just two specific elements and pursued whether it’s possiible to match he perspective in the image, which I have done.  The arch and the pool.  I think the strong visuals are most important.  I don’t ccompletely dispute the Betsy Ross Pole as being linked to the verse but I’m not sure its used specifically as a pointer to te casque.  The lamp post is also a pole.  The pool vector comes from the direction of the Joan of Arc statue.  Is Joan of Arc outside the realm of possibilities as an object of Twains attention?

The pool vector comes from the direction of the Joan of Arc statue.  Is Joan of Arc outside the realm of possibilities as an object of Twains attention?
oh absolutly not Joan is definitly an object of twains attention.
But I still think you are arbitrarily picking and choosing.  in the following picture. there are 4
lines
Green – your line fountain through lampost to path edge (note it doesnt point at Joan)
Purple – Joan through fountain to path edge
Red – Joan through flagpole to path edge
Yellow – Joan through lamp post.
Each path seems valid to me using your theory but ends up in a different spot.
another question is why that lamp post, as there are 6 similar lamp posts around the lot. 2 are closer to Joan that that one.
and what about that lamp post counts as Giant. as there are bigger lamp posts in the park within site of the parking lot.
I understand you are working on a different interpretation (more power to you!)
but,  the only thing that makes those lamp posts interesting is the high points are three line.  but then you choose basically to disregard the
giant pole line and …
If Joan is your object of twain’s attention why are you going away from her when the verse clearly states go toward the object.
and lastly your line that bisects the fountain doesn’t even point at Joan. you are fudging by making your line curve, which basically negates all your careful trigonometry.
You are cherry picking to make this fit.

Maltedfalcon, appreciate your critique of my approach.  Clearly there’s many ways to look at the problem.  I’m not as convinced of anything now that I see the options you counter with.
I’ve changed my view radically.  Now I’m not at all sure were to go.  Looking a all lamp posts equally is a good place to start.  A couple of ideas I’m still mulling over are with the line Running North, but first across.  The embroidery term ‘running stitch’ might be a link to consider.  Betsy Ross’ embroidered flag could be North of an essential position.  The marker for the Kanrin Maru has the word “first” in its description of the first Japanese embassy to cross to the US.  I feel like the flag pole and the Karin Maru memorial are involved here.

Or, all the specific details in the images are gone. I know that Golden Gate Park has changed A LOT in 37 years. There was a pretty major earthquake. There are new buildings, walkways, and plants. I have been focusing on finding old photos. This is very hard. There are not a lot of public photos from the 1980s.

Has anyone ever considered the pull up bars over by the polo field to be representative of “high posts are three”? I know the Japanese translation specified that these posts were made of wood. They have also been there since at least the 70’s according to a few different sources. I couldn’t find any mention of them while doing a thread search so I figured I’d mention it. I’m new to this puzzle and spend most of my time on Boston but I thought this might be somewhat helpful. They’re located below the read arrow in the second picture.

Dominick

Or, all the specific details in the images are gone. I know that Golden Gate Park has changed A LOT in 37 years. There was a pretty major earthquake. There are new buildings, walkways, and plants. I have been focusing on finding old photos. This is very hard. There are not a lot of public photos from the 1980s.

I would go through this entire thread. People have posted both photos and resources for finding old information. Not to mention, many theories over time.

Here’s another interesting one. Across from those bars on the other edge of the polo field is a leg stretch exercise station that looks rather old. Maybe it represents the giant step?

mysteriousnesss

Here’s another interesting one. Across from those bars on the other edge of the polo field is a leg stretch exercise station that looks rather old. Maybe it represents the giant step?

LOL, look at the Google header in your image. Guess you aren’t so mysteriousness, lol.

Pretty sure Andrew wong is just who took the panoramic photo I’m posting.

mysteriousnesss

Pretty sure Andrew wong is just who took the panoramic photo I’m posting.

Ahh, so you are indeed mysterious.
Getting back to your posts. I hate the idea of including playground equipment in these puzzles, but there is some evidence BP may have done just that in Milwaukee and Houston.

Well it’s not exactly playground equipment. It seems like golden gate park is littered with various work out stations and they almost follow a path through the park.

mysteriousnesss

Well it’s not exactly playground equipment. It seems like golden gate park is littered with various work out stations and they almost follow a path through the park.

Similar though, and stuff with not a lot of permanency.

From the little information I can find it’s called the Perrier Parcourse and was built around 1978.

gManTexas

Similar though, and stuff with not a lot of permanency.

The use of playground equipment is better than trees I think, more permanency.

unless it was a tree we were meant to use. Everything has equal value if it was there 37 years ago.

mysteriousnesss

Here’s another interesting one. Across from those bars on the other edge of the polo field is a leg stretch exercise station that looks rather old. Maybe it represents the giant step?

If you’re considering the polo field as giant pole then logically the giant step must be equally giant.
This would give you two options: either the giant step is a sheer drop or cliff very close, or the location is the length of the polo field away.

I’m not making any assumptions here. I’m relatively new to this image/verse and only really started looking into it last year. I’m just putting what I find out there for others to explore. I don’t expect to find myself in San Francisco any time soon. I only brought this up because after the Japanese translations came out it became pretty clear that Sutro Tower was not the “high posts are three” that BP was talking about. Thus I thought it might be interesting to explore other options. I just noticed today that some of the disputed symbols around the dragon could be representative of work out equipment. The course has a balance beam as well as rings and a chin up bar. Each station is also numbered. I understand that these were probably not meant to stand the test of time but it appears that they have been there and were maintained since 1978.

I guess what I’m saying is that it wouldn’t hurt for someone local to go out and take a look in order to determine if this is in any way important. Since the fake casque was unearthed I figured it might be time to switch things up a bit and take a look from a new perspective.

Great initiative Mys.
BTW these are all Verse 7 related posts.

Choice

Great initiative Mys.
BTW these are all Verse 7 related posts.

My apologies. I was only posting on this thread because it was both higher up and because my goal was to see if anything I posted could elicit any image matches.

Since pearl is birthstone of June and Juno is goddess of marriage, is she wearing anything that resembles a traditional wedding dress?
I know Chinese like red and gold for good luck.

gManTexas

When I was looking at map overlays, I searched for a match for the rose since it is highlighted in bright blue. I found that it matches Twin Peaks very nicely. I figured this was to get us in the neighborhood. After considering the Portals of the Past, it has an even stronger connection. If you look at the previous location of Alban Towne’s Mansion on 1101 California Street and where City Hall sits, then picture looking through the portal at City Hall, directly in line with the two is Twin Peaks in the distance.
I did a map overlay to show the rose outline on Twin Peaks. In four steps.

im not sure whether the rose matches the subdivision, but thats the first time i realized there’s a 6 in the rose lol. so thanks for that. also twin peaks is DEF part of the puzzle…literally everything is part of the puzzle…its massive. a better question would be what isnt a part of the puzzle lol. and of course…how does everything connect together…which i have nearly completely explained now.

Here is the solution from
“The Solutions”
post Turtle and I developed.
Image 1
Theme                           China
Pearl                           June birthstone
Clock                           6:00 for 6th month June
Flower                           Rose is birth flower for June
37 and 38             Latitudes
122 and 123             Longitudes
“G” and “h”             Ghirardelli Chocolate sign
Window with bars             Bars for Alcatraz
Rocky Cliffs             The “Rock” Alcatraz Island
Clothing drape             Shape of Golden Gate Park
Face in rock             John F. Kennedy
Yin and Yang symbol Asian theme
Neckline                           Shape of a Torii
Dragon                           Japanese theme and Dragon Hedge in Tea Garden
Lake                           Shape of Japanese Tea Garden pond
Table Leg             Tea Garden Lanterns
Moons                           10 on pagoda and 1 for “moon” bridge
Hair part                           Golden Gate Bridge south shoreline

What evidence do you have that the face outline (if that is what it is) belongs to JFK? Why not Lincoln? Why not millions of other similarly vague profiles? And why would JFK in particular be relevant?

jfk is the drive that borders the tea garden

The rocky formations on that backdrop sure look familiar.

Trohn

Remember the motto “Carpe dig’um”

Trohn

What verse are you using to guide you within

Trohn

GGP?  If there were four pits to choose,

Trohn

the verse would help you select the proper one.

Verse 7
Unfortunately there are 62 pits!
IIRC the 2 casques that have been found, the specific location was in the verse. If this is true for verse 7 / image 1, then I believe that “Giant step to where the casque is kept” would indicate under the horse’s hoof. But there are 2 hooves that can be considered to be taking a step. I already dug under the front, but perhaps I gave up too soon. The soil is so dense and rocky it seems to me it would have taken hours for someone to dig deep enough to bury the casque.

Wish I could help in this line of thought,
but I have firmly linked verse 7 with image 7.
(New Orleans)
I do believe that GGP is a good spot to search.
Can you tell me if there happens to be a
staue of Edwin Forrest (or Edwin Booth) somewhere
within the confines?

Trohn

Can you tell me if there happens to be a
staue of Edwin Forrest (or Edwin Booth) somewhere
within the confines?

I do not believe there is any monument or statue of either of those persons. I have not seen one in my visits, nor can I find any reference in any of the documents here:
http://www.sfgov.org/site/recpark_page.asp?id=30236

Strike two
Saturday I dug up one of the sand pits. Very easy to dig. The sand extended a bit less than 2 feet deep. At the bottom is very hard rocky clay. I chose the fourth pit back from the horse on the south side, since that is where the finger points on the right side of the image.  I counted the sand pits, there are 31 on each side. I noticed that the fingers on the right side could indicate the number 31; 3 fingers then a gap then 1 finger.
Other information of interest is there was recently a volunteer crew that refurbished the pits. I am trying to contact them to ask if they found anything unusual. Also there was a “Horseshoe Club” building that burned down in 1982. I am trying to get some photos.

Keep at it jmerson…
Remember the motto “Carpe dig’um”
What verse are you using to guide you within
GGP?  If there were four pits to choose,
the verse would help you select the proper one.
I believe (although I am in the minority)
that the placement of the jewel in the image
is key to the burial site.
Good luck on the other coast.

For any GGP’ers, this map is 2/3 years out from the ideal date (1981/82) but this 1984 Map & Guide to Golden Gate Park is pretty detailed, maybe one of you already have a copy. But I’ve just quickly scanned it.
I know that GGP has soccer fields but when I saw the soccer fields in this map and their location at the end of the park I couldn’t help but think of the double “D” (half circles located at the bottom of the dress). Also, and I believe it has been discussed before but I know very little about American football (as I’m originally from the UK and I like football football). But are field goals worth 3 points? ball over the high posts, 3 points? Sorry if thats not helpful, just got me thinking when I saw this map and its illustrations of things
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … sp=sharing
Right back to verse13, Valkyrie’s… Ravens….Native Indian’s…. arrrhgghhh

Valuable key rise, win dough

bbi

For any GGP’ers, this map is 2/3 years out from the ideal date

Do you mind if I post that on 12treasures?

burnstyle

Do you mind if I post that on 12treasures?

Sure, no problem. Anything to help.

Choice

Valuable key rise, win dough

Thats good
I’ve been looking and thinking like this at everyday objects lately. Driving me crazy.

bbi

For any GGP’ers, this map is 2/3 years out from the ideal date (1981/82) but this 1984 Map & Guide to Golden Gate Park is pretty detailed, maybe one of you already have a copy. But I’ve just quickly scanned it.
I know that GGP has soccer fields but when I saw the soccer fields in this map and their location at the end of the park I couldn’t help but think of the double “D” (half circles located at the bottom of the dress). Also, and I believe it has been discussed before but I know very little about American football (as I’m originally from the UK and I like football football). But are field goals worth 3 points? ball over the high posts, 3 points? Sorry if thats not helpful, just got me thinking when I saw this map and its illustrations of things
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … sp=sharing
Right back to verse13, Valkyrie’s… Ravens….Native Indian’s…. arrrhgghhh

Nice find!

bbi

But are field goals worth 3 points? ball over the high posts, 3 points? Sorry if thats not helpful, just got me thinking when I saw this map and its illustrations of things

I saw nobody answered this part of your post. Yes. Field goals are worth 3 points in gridiron football.

bbi

For any GGP’ers, this map is 2/3 years out from the ideal date (1981/82) but this 1984 Map & Guide to Golden Gate Park is pretty detailed, maybe one of you already have a copy. But I’ve just quickly scanned it.
I know that GGP has soccer fields but when I saw the soccer fields in this map and their location at the end of the park I couldn’t help but think of the double “D” (half circles located at the bottom of the dress). Also, and I believe it has been discussed before but I know very little about American football (as I’m originally from the UK and I like football football). But are field goals worth 3 points? ball over the high posts, 3 points? Sorry if thats not helpful, just got me thinking when I saw this map and its illustrations of things
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/ … sp=sharing
Right back to verse13, Valkyrie’s… Ravens….Native Indian’s…. arrrhgghhh

Thank you for the map. I have been trying to find high post that are not the Sutro tower. I like your thoughts. I don’t know what field goals are worth but goal posts have been touched on before. It is always good to rethink all of the questions raised on this forum. I am planning to go out and dig as soon as I can get away from work. I have already used a probe in a area but I have been thinking I am still off a bit. This is so difficult.

Merlot Brougham

I saw nobody answered this part of your post. Yes. Field goals are worth 3 points in gridiron football.

WOO HOO!

Merlot Brougham

I saw nobody answered this part of your post. Yes. Field goals are worth 3 points in gridiron football.

Thanks for the clarification Merlot.

As long as they are wooden posts!

Choice

As long as they are wooden posts!

I am not 100% convinced that they made of wood. BP may have been trying to describe to the Japanese what a “post” is. Not a mail post or a military post more like a wooden post. Or this is a straight up clue that they are made of wood. IDK

good luck!!! I hope you find it!!!

good luck!!!
I
hope you find it!!!

why would I need a plane ticket?

Hi All. Just finished listening to podcast, which has been excellent BTW. They had mentioned some of the border symbols in this painting matching up to symbols found in Portsmouth square. Never heard of this before. Does anyone have pics?

he hasn’t done crap in years for sf lol. merely keeps trying to guess final location without consideration for rest of the puzzle and still hasn’t realized that’s not how you do it. also….I like George…but that st aug podcast was brutal.

to who? lol

Brief article in this month’s Smithsonian magazine on Angel Island.
http://www.smithsonianmagazine.com/issues/2006/may/da_island.php

That would be true, but I happened on that clue first and found it interesting that at the precise spots that the fingers point to would come together so nicely to form the image that I didn’t think it was coincidence. Then in finding that, the other distractions of the image where removed and the tea pot became more apparent as the key clue.
Who knows if that was intended but it’s a simple solution to what those finger positions are eluding to and they are there for a reason I would guess.

in one sense they are def pointing to spot that Hwy 1 enters and exits park.

you go to the teagarden for half the womans face (other half is sphinx in sculpture garden)…treasure isn’t there.

Why are you jealous?? Relax, its just a one possible solution…I’m not claiming Jesus and Byron came to me in my sleep and confirmed it.
(…but Dude, its clearly a Tea Pot! There are at least 2 other clues that seem to indicate the tea garden. There’s an immigrant theme to these puzzles…How many check boxes do you want before considering the possibility?)
btw…I’m not seeing many recent Image 1 solutions sticking with the immigrant theme, and I think you can boil down those immigrant related locations to a handful of GGP spots.
In the end, I hope there is something available to find, but I’m concerned it was buried in the Tea Garden and its been destroyed by renovations.

Imagine this.  Can be seen from Angel Island.  FB, your finds from Chicago (and Jambone’s match), got me thinking.  Maybe this is relevant.
Alcatraz Warden’s house.               prison?

I was thinking about that “court” idea for the “scene where law defended” in terms of Golden Gate Park, which has courts of various kinds, including tennis courts.
“H” – eighth letter in the dragon’s tail…? Bit of a stretch, but that’s where the courts are.
The nearby Conservatory of Flowers has a white greenhouse which could pass for the “white house”.
So many curious and interesting features tucked away in this park, like the old “Horseshoe Pits” in that corner.
http://www.artandarchitecture-sf.com/ho … -park.html
http://www.atlasobscura.com/places/gold … shoe-pitch
(Are horseshoes mentioned in the back of the book by any chance…?)
Between two arms extended
Embedded in the sand

Durian

Can’t see the stairs in the photo, but if you look above the cable car you’ll see a lamppost peaking above the car. That’s the giant pole in my proposed solution. Incidentally, it is of the same modern type that I believe are the “high posts are three” from earlier in the verse, so those were in the city in the seventies…
Anyway, the stairs are to the north of the post by a few feet (to the left in the photo), so they were definitely not “under” the old turnaround and may very well have been there in the seventies. Can’t prove it with tools available to me at the moment, but I’d say it’s a good bet they were.

is it me or is that turntable at street level ? or even above it, meaning no stairs at that point, unless instead of stairs down, they were stairs up in 81.

that is the eureka there but like I said it was moved around in the early 80s
Also you can see the turnaround is also in a different place at this time it was more of a 90 degree turn
which now that I look at it kind of looks like it is right on top of your stairway, you should research that more.

Unknown

Unknown:
That’s a stretch, considering how many other numbers — Roman and otherwise — are in this picture.  However, those suspicious hair curls on the right look like a tilted “38”, so I’m cool.

Well, I have felt the boxes meant something specific, since there are two rows of 9 on one sleeve and two rows of 10 on the other…the discrepancy, I figured, was intentional.

Unknown

Unknown:
That’s a stretch, considering how many other numbers — Roman and otherwise — are in this picture.  However, those suspicious hair curls on the right look like a tilted “38”, so
I
‘m cool.

Well,
I
have felt the boxes meant something specific, since there are two rows
of
9 on one sleeve and two rows
of
10 on the other…the discrepancy,
I
figured, was intentional.

I’m kind of in a bit of a quandary right now.
I’ve got a location in San Francisco where I can match up nearly all of verse 7. I’ve also gotten a relative who was visiting the city to get some pictures of the area for me as well. I know what the moons in the picture are and I’ve got a match for the table leg too. So I’m nearly certain that I’ve got the right area. However… she wasn’t looking at the area from the vantage of finding the right spot to dig, just taking some pictures of certain things for me.
And as a result, the one thing from verse 7 I’m not 100% positive I’ve got right is the pole to start from. I have my suspicions, but without actually going to the area, I can’t be certain.
I’m going to be visiting San Francisco in early July for a couple of days and I’d like to dig then. However, I was wondering if there was anyone here local to San Francisco who might be interested in working on this one with me.
Shoot me an email if you’re interested please.

Magesmiley,
I am planning to visit GGP this weekend. I can get some photos of other locations in SF if you want. Give me some details

Jimerson, check your messages please.

Durian, can you post a map or link with your x marks the spot?

ohhhh Totally not where I thought you meant….

ohhhh Totally not where
I
thought you meant….

So, in that clump of bushes? I’m a little concerned because it looks like there are electrical boxes there.

So, in that clump
of
bushes?
I
‘m a little concerned because it looks like there are electrical boxes there.

Only one verse tells us to get permission to dig. I think he buried everything else away from power lines. Think of the liability.

Only one verse tells us to get permission to dig.
I
think he buried everything else away from power lines. Think
of
the liability.

are you talking about the thing right underneath where the hand of the women crossover? that place over the wiki of pbwork called “strawberry”?

ok, since I’m new here( but I’ve lived in the inner Richmond for the past 24 years fyi. )
what exactly make you guys so sure that it’s in GGP? give me something that make sense please. I wanted to convince myself as well, but ….. what exactly you see that make it so sure it’s in Golden Gate Park?
Matter of fact, what makes you think image 1 even refers to San Francisco to begin with?

Spiritr

are you talking about the thing right underneath where the hand of the women crossover? that place over the wiki of pbwork called “strawberry”?

Im calling the strawberry looking thing under wrists the representation of a giant sequoia pinecone.
The black space between the wrists is in the same shape as the small island of land right beside south side of Sprekels lake . Might be coincidence but there’s only 3 tall trees on this piece of land (“ high posts are 3 “maybe , just a thought). Maybe some local could poke around the giant sequoia on this piece of land.

The final location. Since many believe as I do that the final resting spot is somehow illustrated close to the center in the images this is the location of the casque ( at least in my mind).
That thing that looks like a berry under the hands is a pine cone which represents the pine cone of a giant sequoia so the giant sequoia is the giant pole and all you have to do is one giant step away from the tree to find the casque.
I feel certain that Twain’s attention was the giant sequoia.
Now is the tree in GGP or the Maritime park? It’s probably the tallest tree or the only tree close by using the other clues for location.

Diceycat

So you dug or even probed 3 feet down all the way around this tree 3 to 5 feet away from the base? How do you define a giant step? Just curious but how many days did it take you to do that?

over a period of 3 months, I dug the entire circumference from the cement out 5+ feet (minimum 5 feet) some directions farther. depth 4 feet and then probed with a soil probe (in all directions) . I figured out the weight of the dirt (mostly sand) I moved once, it was in excess of 2 tons.
I had help (friends, family, at times even the groundskeepers came to dig.)
I also searched directly in front of it out about 40 feet probing (not digging) just in case the giant step was actually a step taken by the goddess of the forest, (i figured out how long her legs were and did the math.)
There were two cast iron irrigation pipes. near but they were about 100 years old but in front about 5 feet from the plinth runs a east/west pvc irrigation pipe set at a depth of 4 feet.
My concern was the trencher for this pipe ran right through the casque.
So I found the trencher that had been used the next time they used it I dropped a flower pot into the trench in front of it. I measured how far the pieces of the flower pot were displaced laterally and then I went back and dug there left and right along the pipe. looking for pieces, -no pieces found.
most importantly – there are no images in the picture that confirm that as the location, while it fits the verse perfectly, (with the exception of a real good twain reference- which is why I dug completely around it) . but a good verse fit is not enough as we see from Chicago and Cleveland, there should be actual things in the image you see from the casque site or at least right nearby, (Chicago, fence, fixture) (cleveland, wall, stones, fountain columns)
In lindley meadow there is zilch.

here’s the part I cut from a 1975 map,
and here’s something I suggested that would look more like it, it even match the side and the top as will…..

if anything, a pinecone would point you to the McLaren statue…not a unknown sequoia tree…

There is a lone sequoia just north of the east side speaker in NMP and as far as GGP goes I would guess the tallest one just east of the music concourse area

not a consistent (or good) use of pole…id keep trying…

Maltedfalcon have you considered the small island of land beside the south side of Sprekels lake since it’s a close match for the outline of the black space between the wrists ( in the middle) in the image?

Let me further refine the location if it is located in GGP it will be the sequoia between the 3 rd and 4th ave ( if those are the streets the fingers are pointing to. To me the fingers are pointing to a region in between let’s say the 3rd ave. So he could be referencing below 3rd ave or between 3rd and 4 th ave.). The tree might be in that memorial garden east of the music concourse by the tallest sequoia or a bit further east of that . In the images the fingers point to the general location it seems

Diceycat

Maltedfalcon have you considered the small island of land beside the south side of Sprekels lake since it’s a close match for the outline of the black space between the wrists ( in the middle) in the image?

37.769855, -122.494952 ? that’s a HUGE area

fingers point in 2 totally opposite directions. in relation to ggp they most definitely point to where hwy 1 enters and exits the park, without question.

I live at 32nd, while the sun still up, let me go take a walk

Diceycat

Maltedfalcon have you considered the small island of land beside the south side of Sprekels lake since it’s a close match for the outline of the black space between the wrists ( in the middle) in the image?

no I didnt

Spiritr

37.769855, -122.494952 ? that’s a HUGE area

not sure where you got those values but… it’s safe to figure that the sixth decimal place in one decimal degree has 111,111/10^6 = about 1/9 meter = about 4 inches of precision.
or basically the size of the casque…

those are just for you to copy and paste so google can pin point the exact location you were saying, and I’m trying to confirm if that’s the area you’re referring
ok, fine, i’ll do this, 37°46’11.5″N 122°29’41.8″W , is this the area?

JamesV

Quick follow-up to the previous post on St.Mary’s square…apparently there’s also a “White House” right across the street from the statue that WhiteRabbit found. It looks to be a public parking garage now, but it’s apparently also some kind of historic SF landmark which might further suggest an I1/V6 pairing. Link:
http://thewhitehousegaragesf.com
Also: just learned that Title 8 of the US code deals with the role of aliens and nationality in the United States, and Chapter 8 of this code specifically deals with Chinese immigrants. No joke…this is officially titled as “The Cooly Trade”.
Link:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title_8_o … tates_Code
Could the Chinese Exclusion Act, enacted in 1882 and repealed in 1943, possible be the inspiration for the couplet “Or on the eighth a scene / Where law defended”? Again, unsure if there’s any historical markers or similar nearby, but it seems to fit well with both I1 and the immigration theme.
Also interesting: The adjacent park from St. Mary’s, the Union Square shopping area, was built up over a sand dune… (Link:
http://www.sfchronicle.com/bayarea/arti … 731306.php
)

Self-bump, I1/V6.
Just wanted to share this interesting article which touches on Chinese immigration & the earliest civil rights laws:
https://hoodline.com/2015/08/yick-wo-an … late-1800s
Unknown if this case, or any of these similar ones, might possibly fit into an I1/V6 interpretation as “a scene where law defended”? (
http://teachingresources.atlas.illinois … ce_2_4.pdf
)
If so, I’d assume there’d probably have to be a historical plaque, marker or something similar nearby, preferably within walking distance of Chinatown.

Do the pointing fingers seem to indicate “3” and “4” by counting the blocks? That may develop interest in the intersection of 34th street at GGP. Is/was that an important streetcar stop for any reason?

This would possibly be the final location in GGP. My refined guess
The shapes (outlines),the fingers make on the arm indicate features in GGP. On the right side is the outline of Stow Lake , on the left side is the outline of Spreckles lake and that dark area in the center where the two hands cross is one of two possibilities either Lindley Meadow or West Hellman Hollow ( they hold concerts here in West Hellman ,as well ,might have something to do with sounds from the sky). Someone was saying there was at one time a giant pole at Lindley Meadow and now gone .

That’s it 34 th street intersecting with Lindley Meadow. Can anyone produce a photo of that tall pole that stood here and it’s precise location ? Or is there any other tall sequoia at this crosssection of 34 and Lindley? Bingo! That’s it the casque was a giant step away from the” Godess of the forest”that big sequoia tree stump like the one in Grant national park that is named after Twain!!!

Diceycat

That’s it 34 th street intersecting with Lindley Meadow. Can anyone produce a photo of that tall pole that stood here and it’s precise location ? Or is there any other tall sequoia at this crosssection of 34 and Lindley? Bingo! That’s it the casque was a giant step away from the” Godess of the forest”that big sequoia tree stump like the one in Grant national park that is named after Twain!!!

The one place in SF I know the casque is not, is one giant step away from “The Goddess of the Forest” in any direction.

maltedfalcon

The one place in SF I know the casque is not, is one giant step away from “The Goddess of the Forest” in any direction.

LOL, man you tried so hard, I respect that.

maltedfalcon

Technically it entered the loop once it crossed the DuSable Bridge so water tower (a specific spot) to the bowman (another specific spot)
If SF is the Cable Car, – which cable car (a specific spot) ? and what specific spot is the Dragon’s head?

The specific spot would be the start of California street where the California Cable Car line starts. It runs west, once the line stops you continue down California street to you reach Lincoln park(face in the illustration IMO) then you use 38th ave(38 blocks in the sleeve) to get you to the park, walk west then you see the Senior Center with the Dragon, the verse starts there.
California street, you have a Cable car line (iconic image) The colors of the dress are blue and gold (California’s official colors) California street
Along California street you pass a few possible illustration images, St. Marys Cathedral church ( California and Grant) Roman numerals on the clock, across the street is the Cathay House Restaurant (which is a land mark to china town) On the building there are Two Yin and Yang plaques(on the dress), continue down California street you reach 11th ave and on the corner is a house with a dome roof, (Moons)
The stretch of California street is under 6 miles. I believe Cleveland was about 7 miles from Tower to garden.

SF is way out of hand. So many people with different views and attempts at different locations, and so few things actually known for certain.
This is one of those cities that seems harder on several levels. Twain would be proud…

erexere

SF is way out of hand. So many people with different views and attempts at different locations, and so few things actually known for certain.
This is one of those cities that seems harder on several levels. Twain would be proud…

and by value/difficulty scale, should be in the top 3 of easiest.

erexere

SF is way out of hand. So many people with different views and attempts at different locations, and so few things actually known for certain.
This is one of those cities that seems harder on several levels. Twain would be proud…

You know, before this board turned into a shitshow, I was thinking that we should pool our resources and have a casque of the month club. Everyone focus on one location and solve it. Get some able bodied volunteers to dig.
But alas, let’s hand the mic to Josh…

I read somewhere that people would often get off at 34th street and walk up to the Legion of Honor. That’s the area that I feel holds the most potential. The endgame of that area seems to have presented more difficulty than expected.

erexere

I read somewhere that people would often get off at 34th street and walk up to the Legion of Honor. That’s the area that I feel holds the most potential. The endgame of that area seems to have presented more difficulty than expected.

Get off of what? A bus? The street cars have not run to GGP for a long time.

the funny thing is that there is only one twain clue that works. the others all do not work. im very surprised im only one whos picked up on it, and you know what i know it is. lol

Why is everyone set on the verse matchup with this image? I agree that the image suggests SF, but all of the stuff i’ve read on here just seems a stretch to fit the verse. Also, it seems like the symbols on the dress, both the ones on the horizontal that someone compared to topographical symbols and the ones below, some roman numerals, letters, symbols? all seem to be more than random decoration. Maybe there is something there that could help narrow things down a bit.

clarkrock7

Why is everyone set on the verse matchup with this image? I agree that the image suggests SF, but all of the stuff i’ve read on here just seems a stretch to fit the verse. Also, it seems like the symbols on the dress, both the ones on the horizontal that someone compared to topographical symbols and the ones below, some roman numerals, letters, symbols? all seem to be more than random decoration. Maybe there is something there that could help narrow things down a bit.

A great question!
and the answer is because of all the other verses. Obviously you can’t just look at one verse So 12 verses, 12 cities/images, 2 of each are already used.
leaving 10/10
so if you want to try a different verse say verse 6 with image 1- are you also suggesting that 7 goes with charleston? cause currently 6 seems to go with charleston(image2)
but if 7 is not SF then maybe it does belong with new orleans, which would free up verse 2 – so does 2 go with 2?
you begin to see the picture.
but that of course is not a reason to not try other verses.
Also keep in mind that what you see on Q4T or the wiki or Facebook, is just the tip of the iceberg
many people are working and have ideas and are trying things that never ever get posted.
If you are looking for the method that undeniably links an image with a verse- I am sure there is one, just nobody has ever figured it out – there are lots of theories that kind of work, work sometimes, or even work most of the time, but nothing that works all the time. It would be great if you could figure that out!

maltedfalcon

The one place in SF I know the casque is not, is one giant step away from “The Goddess of the Forest” in any direction.

So you dug or even probed 3 feet down all the way around this tree 3 to 5 feet away from the base? How do you define a giant step? Just curious but how many days did it take you to do that?

he dug all around it

MrBackstop

https://sfmta.photoshelter.com/gallery-image/Powell-Cable-Cars/G0000eEsx6rmQeQ0/I0000A7H3WSfKXrk/C00001T4YTtxFMnU

I had someone ask me about what I thought the giant pole and giant step were and I believe this photo shows clearly what I’m talking about.
Giant pole – smokestack from SF Pumping Station #2
Giant step – East bleachers of the Maritime Museum
This photo is from ’62 and I have seen other photos from ’75 that have the smokestack. I realize it was not around in some photos from the ’90s. Do any locals know when that stack got taken down? Or perhaps it went down in ’89?

ah, finally a place where I can post a reply, I’m new here, still learning, I live in SF btw.
reason I discovered this Secret book was by random to this guy’s Reddit page which he claim he and his friend have found the box yet he refuse to answer any questions, LOL. so yea, that’s how I started….
so, anybody here have a Congress Library card that can pull out the maps and share here?

erexere

I read somewhere that people would often get off at 34th street and walk up to the Legion of Honor. That’s the area that I feel holds the most potential. The endgame of that area seems to have presented more difficulty than expected.

…….so that’s why there’s a 38 over the hair? hahaha, nice find

Since Maltedfalcon dug or probed extensively around the area of the goddess of the forest then tell me what you think of the shape of the piece of land just to the immediate south of Sprekels lake , this little island of land has the same shape as the black space made by the hands ( wrists),where they cross over in the middle, could it be in this location was it checked out as well ( no one is saying where the goddess of the forests exact location was)

Diceycat

(no one is saying where the goddess of the forests exact location was)

Research.
The location was certainly pinpointed and discussed years ago when maltedfalcon did his dig (with permission). I tried a quick Google search to see how deep the details are, and instead I found yet another discussion forum with yet another solve –(“somewhere near Strawberry Hill by Stow Lake” if you’re curious, see tripadvisor.com and a January 2018 thread) — and right there it says the Goddess was in Lindley Meadow. I haven’t been there myself, but my understanding is that there is still a stump or a cement base or at least some residue which was left behind when the totem pole sculpture was removed.
Oh, here’s another thing Google led me to… a description of the dig TEN years ago.
http://www.sparkletack.com/2008/06/11/a … francisco/

A translation of the inscription on the monument:
Leaving their home and villages, they crossed the ocean
Only to endure confinement in these barracks;
Conquering frontiers and barriers, they pioneered
a new life by the golden gate.
— Ngoot P. Chin
http://www.americansall.com/PDFs/02-americans-all/13.9.pdf

What verses have we put aside for us to match with San fran?  Gonna have to steal from another image?
Nice job acAndy!

This as far as I could get with the image at this point.  I started to look at the verses and started with verse 7 because that was the one that was linked to the image at the time.  There was no mention of New Orleans that I was aware of.
I’m not sure if I should post this here or on the verse 7 page.  I will let the moderators guide me on this.
I looked at a lot of the comments about this and took some that make sense to me and added a bit of myown thoughts.
At stone wall’s door
The air smells sweet
Because of the backwards Gh, I thought that this part was a direct link to the picture.  A great start in my opinion.  Ghiradehli building San Francisco.
Not far away
High posts are three
Education and Justice
For all to see
There are some refernces to buildings in the downtown SF area, I decided not to pursue this line too much atthis point because it seems very vague to me.
Sounds from the sky
Near ace is high
I believed this to be Highway 1 and possibly the golden gate bridge reference. Possibly SFO international. Again pretty vague.
I think the main purpose of the first part of the poem is to get you to the downtown area of San Francisco.  There are a lot of images that reference the area as well.
The part in the girls hair: Golden Gate bridge
The Coit tower in her dress
Golden Gate park The blue/dragon part of the dress.
The coordinates
Possibly Alcratraz Island with the window at the to of the rock formation.
among other things.
I really think that that is all the author is trying to do here.  If any of these locations are the location of the Jewel, which one do you pick?
For me this is the next four lines gets you to Angel Island:
Running north, but first across
I think this is a very important clue.
Across what?  Based on the picture and the monument on angel Island and having a starting point of downtown SF, it all fits too well to mean that he is talking about water.  You must go NORTH across the water to Angel Island.  Angel Island happens to be directly North of Downtown SF.
In jewel’s direction
This to me simply means that the jewel is North of our starting point.  Not in the downtown area
These two lines are cleverly written
Is an object
Of Twain’s attention
I think it may have a dual meaning.  As you know Mark Twain spent a considerable amount of time living and work in SF as a newspaper reporter.  He is also known for his steamship escapades.  The steamship might be a refernce to going across the water, maybe not.
The second theory is that the word “attention” has a military signifcance.  Here is an article about Mark Twains visit to Angel Island in 1864(Civil war era).
In July of 1864 General Irvin McDowell, Commanding Officer of the Department of the Pacific, made an inspection tour of Angel Island. Accompanying the Army officers and dignitaries on the tour was a young reporter who later would become famous as “Mark Twain,” but at the time, proud of being a reporter, called himself “Clemens, of the Call.” Clemens said the fortifications on Angel Island “were fast growing into formidable proportions.” That same month the Commanding Officer of Camp Reynolds reported that thirteen guns were mounted and there were 7,400 pounds of powder, and 2,600 rounds of shot and shell on hand.
This was from:http://www.militarymuseum.org/CpReynolds.html and has a great write-up of the military history of Angel Island.
Also you can see a redition of Abraham Lincoln head in the rocks looking up as if he was lying on his back.  A civil war era reference and a nice tie in.
I am going to wait to tell you what I think about this last section as this gets you to the final resting place of the casque
Giant pole
Giant step
To the place
The casque is kept.

http://www.sanfranciscoonline.com/maps.html
A nice resource with as much detail as you’d get
without being there.

Euhirudinea

But you absolutely need the image to identify the dig spot. For this particular puzzle, the verse is significantly less important than the image (unlike say Milwaukee, where I believe the opposite is true).

I sincerely doubt that this verse image combination is formulated differently than the two found casques.
Especially when there exists a solution for SF that exactly matches the methodology used in those.
To be specific:
Image- contains
lat/lon of the main search area
a starting point.
an indication of which road to take to the treasure ground.
Visual clues to indicate when you get to the treasure ground.
specific images you see from the site of the casque.
Verse contains the step by step directions from the general treasure ground to the casque.
This is how chicago worked
This is how cleveland worked
and this is how SF works, with the unfortunate realization the casque is no longer accessible.

Oregonian

. They must have always needed a handrail at that spot, and the pole seems custom-made for it. So that’s our handrail (“giant pole”) going up the stairway (“giant step”).
Let’s take a look at the two sleeves on the dress:
The woman’s left index finger is upside-down and pointing at the lower edge of the fourth row of blocks. The woman’s right index finger is right-side-up and pointing at the upper edge of the fourth row of blocks. Taken together, the fingers seem to be indicating a range: No higher than the top of the fourth row and no lower than the bottom of the fourth row.
it might be saying that we should focus our attention within the range of the fourth step.

There are sooo many problems with this theory. The first being a railing is not a pole. We have ad nauseum poured over BP’s word choice and realized he was an incredible wordsmith. – He used pole, not rail not Bannister , handrail, support or balustrade. Railing doesnt fit.
The next is the analysis of the fingers, with out a doubt the fingers point at two different places, yet this is resolved into 4 .
they are blocks, if they looked like steps it would make sense. but they are blocks, they fingers point between blocks
The fingers point at the third line and the 4th line between blocks.
What’s between blocks? Streets. : 3 4 Street
Also without distorting the map, just overlaying for real, the fingers actually point to 34th street

Hey All!
I just want to say I have dug many many times in Golden Gate Park.
The people who are the groundskeepers of the parks are super friendly and always interested in the Hunt.
I have never dug without permission and have never had any trouble getting permission.
They are encouraging and helpful. (well to the point of offering a shovel, but not digging)
They love to come out and watch (and comment, LOL )
So if you’re are planning a dig, make contact with them rather than trying to sneak in, get caught and ruin it for the rest of us.

For those who were interested, I was by that staircase last Sunday, and saw no signs that anyone had been digging or poking around in the ivy on either side.

My bad, relied on SF library website
Whenever I see the backward G in the painting I see a black knight inside (chess piece) and a man’s head in h.

Goonie68

Rviewer1, what area are you looking for? GGP or other?

I’m not sure what you have but the areas I’m interested in are GGP and LOH. I still remain open to other areas of the city as being possible solutions. Do you have any ideas on where I could buy some old vintage maps that BP may have used of SF and the parks. Thanks Goonie!

I must agree, the fold out map it so cool. I think it was Goldengate who posted it. I wrote a post but I guess I deleted it about going to the historical society. I am also wondering if the Parks have archives? I think I saw the SF downtown library has lots of photos. I have copied some and have them save in my “Secret Folder” and of course the SF Chronicle archives. Newspapers call there archives the morgue — where flies and old photos are stored.

Thanks Spiritr, got the PDF recently, just didn’t get the chance to look at it. Will keep in touch.
@Goldengate, to make the image fit better to your solution, mirror the image so the G and h are correct. Then the hand with VII fingers would be pointing to 20th ave.
7th pres. Jackson on $20 bill.

i think this thread is overloaded with way too much mixed opinions and at 240 pages, it’s impossible to tell what is right and wrong anymore…
I’m gonna make a thread of my own for san francisco and make some space for this thread

Rviewer1

I’m not sure what you have but the areas I’m interested in are GGP and LOH. I still remain open to other areas of the city as being possible solutions. Do you have any ideas on where I could buy some old vintage maps that BP may have used of SF and the parks. Thanks Goonie!

The San Francisco Library is your best bet for maps, slides and information about the parks and the city. This was at the library, a replica of Francis Scott Key monument made out of wood! Very cool!
limited tort

This might peak your interest Rviewer1
he wishes for the cloths of heaven poem analysis

I found some large wooden poles –
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Georg … 22.4402579

Very nice Merlin!
But all this talk about red strawberries and blueberries makes me hungry for dessert.
I still think blue and purple circles represent hydrangea flowers where intentionally planted around Lombard street as mudslide prevention.
This is very close to the painting’s dragon head. Head spike crown and all:
And I don’t know if this was there in the early 80’s or not but looks very close as well:
I wish I could find a definitive drawing of the layout in late 70’s.

@Merlin, your backward G lion/serpent statue is modern. Here’s Manuel Palos in his studio sculpting serpent’s head for the fountain at the Golden Gate Music Concourse in 2011.

Damn!…..Back to the drawing board. Thanks Choice

Could this be the blue strawberry??
https://images.pond5.com/crab-statue-pi … still.jpeg

@Merlin, you should really research a bit before spitting things out. Crab Topiary sculpture at Pier 39 by Jeff Brees, installed in 2003.

Choice

Crab Topiary sculpture at Pier 39, Fisherman’s Wharf, San Francisco by Jeff Brees, installed in 2003

I need a beer……and a time machine.

Durian

It’s a TARDIS?

Maybe it’s Merlin’s time machine.

So what’s the deal with Lotta’s Fountain? It keeps changing size.
Here are pictures from 1880, 1956, 1980 and now:

It was moved once but it’s the same fountain. I think they reduced the size to bring it back to the original size. But during BP’s visit it was giant.

Choice

@Merlin, your backward G lion/serpent statue is modern. Here’s Manuel Palos in his studio sculpting serpent’s head for the fountain at the Golden Gate Music Concourse in 2011.

All is not lost Merlin. The Rideout Fountain by M Earl Cummings with the lion and serpent was installed in 1924. The picture Choice posted does indeed show Manuel Palos – however he was restoring/repairing/replacing the sculpture around 2010. Not sure when the damage mentioned in this article occurred….
https://www.sfgate.com/travel/article/R … to-2307236

I was in San Fran last month for work, but found a little time to do some sightseeing. I didn’t have The Secret on my mind at all. We took the Powell Street cable car up to Fisherman’s Wharf, and as we neared the wharf, I saw a portion of the big Ghirardelli Square sign from the back (and to the side). All I could see was the “Gh” and maybe the “i” due to other buildings and trees, and it instantly reminded me of this image. It happened so fast, but it struck me that the “G” and “h” in this image are also reversed, and maybe this is why. One of the SF photos that Preiss gave JJP from which to paint the picture must have been taken from a point south of Ghirardelli Square. Here’s about the only picture I can find from behind the sign, but it has fewer obstructions.

.
Seagulls?

Euhirudinea

True, but more likely in the verses since Preiss worked on them alone, after he had buried the casques and in at least one case, after he had the painting from Palencar. He was probably walking the line between giving too much additional information (which would have made them too easy to solve), and not enough (which would have made things much more difficult). After the Cleveland image was completed (probably the first IMO), he probably told Palencar to be a little more creative in the way he rendered the treasure ground, but that (also in my opinion) was probably the extent of the misdirection in the images. In short, I believe the purpose of the images are twofold: to make the mental light bulbs go off as you get closer and closer to the treasure ground, and to confirm in a very precise way, exactly where you are supposed to dig. Any superfluous information in the image was probably a byproduct of Palencar trying to make an interesting picture.
Coke/Pepsi. Paper/plastic. Sharks/Jets. Imagers/Versers. Y’all know where I stand on at least one of these.

This really belongs more in the method thread, but I really think it’d be helpful to try and break down the Cleveland solve (and Chicago, but more has changed) and attempt to figure out how the image leads to a dig spot. Egbert has mentioned on numerous occasions that the counting steps don’t really work out, unless you’re facing the front of the wall (and the casque was buried in the rear). Chicago they had the right spot and still couldn’t find the casque (and that’s with the trees still there to count). It leads me to believe there’s something missing that would show you exactly where to dig when you’re standing at the site.
It’s possible that the riddles are different – Cleveland’s is the only one that even seems to lead to a semi-precise dig spot, for for example the verse often associated with #12 (“Gaze north toward the Isle of B”) does not culminate with a 1′ x 1′ square to stick a shovel in the ground, and we know precision is key.
I know people have been to both cities since, but has anyone ever tried to show up and say “OK, how do we get HERE from these clues”? Has anyone tried to figure out how Chicago was supposed to be found without Preiss’ help? Angles? Some sort of map? Anything?
Like even in four21’s Boston theory, you can follow everything to the letter and it still leaves you with a ton of places to actually stick your shovel, all of which could make sense. There has to be something else, the answer can’t be to just brute force every puzzle and dig a bunch of holes.

prospector

Didn’t you once think it was in Golden Gate Park but moved up the hill to the Legion of Honor?

I think prospector meant you changed your solve to L of H. from GGP.
Next stop, China Beach?

Another perspective: Verse 7
Giant pole and Giant step may not be objects like big flag pole or big steps or a leap.
Similar to “Running north, but first across” that describes the direction of a street, “Giant pole Giant step To the place” is giving us the name of a street to the place; where “giant pole giant step” is the name of the street. Just have to decipher it.
For example, 2 Giant makes Giants, and pole step scrambled makes people St.
Many possibilities. Have fun!

prospector

I want to plug Golden Gate Park as the park to dig in. It is Huge. Try walking it looking for clues. It is overwhelming. I have discovered some really cool places in this park since I have been studying the Secret. I know how frustrating things must be for people who have been on this site for years and see newbies like me come up with some sort of solve that may have been talked about numerous times before. The issue is not that it hasn’t been talked about before but, I believe, there was more to be revealed. I have tried to read as much of the thread on Image 1 and Verse 7 that I could and I made a tentative list of the digs people have tried over the years. I don’t have a completed solve but I do have a beginning path. I want to start at with entering Golden Gate Park at Fulton and 37th at the Senior Center.
First of all I don’t think the clues in the image lead to the Flagpole at the Senior Center. I do believe someone has dug there.

Yes they have ,it isn’t/wasn;t by the flagpole at the senior center.
which horizontal line are you talking about further down in your post?
and I agree with almost every thing you said and totally do not believe it is GGpark, your mileage may vary.

drunknerds

I don’t think anyone’s completely eliminated everywhere on the senior lawn, and it is still my favorite place due to the six image matches I see there. However, I really hope it’s not there because there is zero indication where the “giant step” should be made in relation to the pole. I don’t want to solve puzzles if they have super ambiguous dig spot references like that. Plus it got totally bulldozed and redone, so it’s not going to be retrievable if it ever was there, most likely.

I took the information on the hunt to the guys with the backhoe at the senior center
and asked them to call me if they saw anything like the casque or pieces of the casque.
offered to buy the crew beer, they loved the idea,
but I never got a call and the entire lawn was removed. so it wasn’t there.

prospector

I can see another line in the upper part of it behind the large rocks and in front of the rocks that seem in the distance. It is just not natural to an organic image. I think of all of this art work as stylized and evoking allusion; however, there is some of this image that is concrete. I am still working on it.
Didn’t you once think it was in Golden Gate Park but moved up the hill to the Legion of Honor? I have a really strong feeling it is in Golden Gate Park. But as it is always said “until it is dug up” anything goes.

The upper line is a fold line where the painting was folded
No I do not think the casque was ever moved, Just like I dont think the chicago casque was ever buried at the water tower, or the cleveland casque was ever buried at the transit building.

maltedfalcon

Yes they have ,it isn’t/wasn;t by the flagpole at the senior center.
which horizontal line are you talking about further down in your post?
and I agree with almost every thing you said and totally do not believe it is GGpark, your mileage may vary.

Maltfalcon,
If you look at image almost in the center of it behind the woman you can see a line cutting the image in half. I can see another line in the upper part of it behind the large rocks and in front of the rocks that seem in the distance. It is just not natural to an organic image. I think of all of this art work as stylized and evoking allusion; however, there is some of this image that is concrete. I am still working on it.
Didn’t you once think it was in Golden Gate Park but moved up the hill to the Legion of Honor? I have a really strong feeling it is in Golden Gate Park. But as it is always said “until it is dug up” anything goes.

I went to the flagpole with a friend while visiting SF this summer. He really wasn’t into it, and was just along to hang out.
I told him it was bulldozed and that if it was at the senior center we might find fragments of clay and plexiglass.
We found a ton of plexiglass and fragments of white clay. His mind was blown and now he’s into it.
For the record, I don’t think we found anything. I sent the clay pieces to George who said it didn’t match casques. Also he mentioned finding plexiglass all over the country on his digs, in the podcast. Also none of the fragments had any telltale relief.
It was super fun to see his mind blown, though.
I don’t think anyone’s completely eliminated everywhere on the senior lawn, and it is still my favorite place due to the six image matches I see there. However, I really hope it’s not there because there is zero indication where the “giant step” should be made in relation to the pole. I don’t want to solve puzzles if they have super ambiguous dig spot references like that. Plus it got totally bulldozed and redone, so it’s not going to be retrievable if it ever was there, most likely.

Goldengate

… I like Joan of Arc, and the look of the columns in the building in relationship to the barred window, but again just speaking for myself, can’t reconcile that as a whole.

I do see reference to Joan of Arc on the rocks below barred gate, but may be hint only to the arc part i.e. curve or arch.
Tons of clues for that solution. Will slap some graphics together after lunch break!

Trohn

Yep, I have.  Just do not think that is the location.
Photo of the sign:
http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-Ghirardelli.htm
A closer view, with something interesting in the foreground
(maybe too recent an addition)
http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-Ghirardelli.htm
I agree that this figure is a mirror image of the casque site
(where in SF that would be?)
I think that with the orientation of ‘Alcatraz’, the casque site would
be to the south.
Angel Island may be the mass behind the Alcatraz portion.
(Under the many moons)
I see the China woman standing on a flat shoreline,
a small channel of water, Alcatraz, and then a larger stretch of
water, and another rocky island.
Here is the view from Aquatic Park:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hist … c_Park.jpg
In your solve, with the Immigration Station, you disregard
the serpent/dragon.

Hi, a little time without read the BB…
With all respect to the point of view of all people working in this hunt years ago, i like to think all possibilities…
and immigration monument is a nice theory!
so,what if the image is not mirrored? I mean, if you stand in north part of monument (and seeing the monument in alcatraz’s direction) you can construct the same perspective in the image (including Ghirardelli’s letters mirrored, right?)
well, I have nothing to say about serpent/dragon… I’ll do my lucubration…

Trohn

Yep, I have.  Just do not think that is the location.
Photo of the sign:
http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-Ghirardelli.htm
A closer view, with something interesting in the foreground
(maybe too recent an addition)
http://www.virtuar.com/ysf2/ap-Ghirardelli.htm
I agree that this figure is a mirror image of the casque site
(where in SF that would be?)
I think that with the orientation of ‘Alcatraz’, the casque site would
be to the south.
Angel
Island may be the mass behind the Alcatraz portion.
(Under the many moons)
I see the China woman standing on a flat shoreline,
a small channel of water, Alcatraz, and then a larger stretch of
water, and another rocky island.
Here is the view from Aquatic Park:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Hist … c_Park.jpg
In your solve, with the Immigration Station, you disregard
the serpent/dragon.

Hi, a little time without read the BB…
With all respect to the point of view of all people working in this hunt years ago, i like to think all possibilities…
and immigration monument is a nice theory!
so,what if the image is not mirrored? I mean, if you stand in north part of monument (and seeing the monument in alcatraz’s direction) you can construct the same perspective in the image (including Ghirardelli’s letters mirrored, right?)
well, I have nothing to say about serpent/dragon… I’ll do my lucubration…

The “pedastal” with watch and rose matches the antique street lamp post on Sutter street.  Look closely at the shape of the “torch arms”.
Malted, I mean no disrespect as I feel obligated to look for alternatives.  You say the GGP is an iconic image and the start of the path.  I think thats a problem.  The start seems more likely the view of Alcatraz from the pier near Ghirahdeli Chocolatier.  From there, the reverse view of Gh informs us to go south on Larkin.  At the corner of Larkin and Sutter i believe there is/was a confirmer to turn right.  You pass by “Little Japan” and continue to the middle of the North side of GGP and then “crossover” to 19th street using Crossover St.  Continue till you come to the corner of an Orthodox church and Lawton street (Education and Justice) but dont turn, continue to 19th and Moraga where you will find your next confirmer on the Northeast corner (ask me if you dont see it, but I’m sure you will pee yourself when you do), turn left head straight to the top of Grand View Park.

Absolutely no disrespect taken or felt in any way!
Your views are equal to mine, Everything I say is a theory, guesswork and wishful thinking.
Personally I have never ever bought into Gh = Ghirarhdeli other than the font is similar. If you can point me to a lamp post in SF that matches the silhouette I would appreciate it.
I have found many that are similar but none that match. where is exactly is the lamp on sutter st you are talking about.
I looked for the confirmer on the corner of 19th and Moraga, but I must be blind I don’t see it. The lamppost isnt the same shape as the silhouette, the windows on the building don’t match the image.
I give up?
One thing I think, is you are using the verse to move through the city. (that’s the job of the image) by the time you get to the immediate location of the casque, you wont have enough verse left to specifically guide you to the exact spot to dig. remember in the two found casques the picture verse leads you through a continuous journey with no “jump aheads ” you’re basically guided the entire way. (once you figure out where to start)
lastly the verse states aces high, running north, but first across, yet you take highway 1 ( crossover st. ) and head south. why did you head south?

Honestly I was only theorizing abojut the lamp post at Larkin and Sutter, but since just now checking on google street view i confirmed it is there.  The shape of the rose stem is also built into it.  Its not that unique, there are more on Sutter.  I dont know SF so well, so they could be else place.
The Moraga and 19th has a blue building with tall narrow sash style window work that matches the sleeves in the picture.
Why south? I dont have a good answer…why not?  As for left over verse, im not sure we need much in this case…just get your butt up to Grand View Park sometime and figure it out.

Nope I left GGpark years ago when I figured out that GGpark was the Iconic image and the start of the Picture Path for Image 1
The next thing I had to figure out was where was the end of the journey and where did the verse start.
I knew several things. Since there are so many roads leading away from GGpark, The picture would have to tell me which one to take, and of course it would have to tell me where to stop or turn.
lastly once I got there the picture would need to have at least two site confirmers hidden in the pictures.
So I looked and looked until I found a spot that fulfilled all those qualifications.
Of course I still could be totally wrong, any of my suppositions above could be incorrect, but I tried to learn everything I could from the two found Caches and concentrated on only what I knew worked in those finds.
So now I have my end point and there I found two site confirmers, the first being the Barred Window which is a doorway with exactly the same shape/height/width shown in the image and bars.
And standing in the doorway I can see another site confirmer found in the image (but it is well hidden)
the question is which verse? im trying to find out if the giant Pole was even there in 1981. it might not have been.
but other verses just dont fit.

actually went there in about 2005 or 6 when I was trying to find an alternative to the Goddess of the Forest.