dellucc

I’m having a problem navigating between verse and image. Do I have it correct that Image 12 was matched with verse 10?
I just matched Image 12 to verse 6, but my notes are they are already matched to another. Verse 6 points directly to Gramercy park. Who and why made the initial matches? I cannot find the page at this time.

I suggested that V6 and Image 12 could be a match for Grammercy Park in an earlier forum…BUT I don’t know if you live in NYC or ever have, but Gramercy Park is actually locked, and you need a key to get in. Residents surrounding the park all have a key. I toured with a band called Deadsy many many years ago. The singer Elija Blue Allman (son of Cher and Greg Allman) used to live across the street and he informed me of this…their one hit was called “The Key to Gramercy Park”
I can’t verify if this were still the case back in 1981 or if the locking of the park was always in effect or if it happened that way for a reason. I believe the park has actual hours where the public can visit, but I know it would be hard to dig there, unless you had the key and could go at night.
Also I think 421 and TJ have a viable solution to S.C. based on V6, but then again I thought Lake Park was a lock for Image 10 until recently…until one is found somewhere we can’t say for certain that ANY of this is figured out or that the Verses and Images we all assume to mach up are correct either. It’s just going to take a lot of persistence to match up visuals with the image, that are also tied to the verse. In NC the verse may be directly tied to the image with the “land by the window” verse, I think the key to all of this is to find something real in a city, that matches a visual clue as well as a clue in the verse. Look at Chicago and Cleveland to judge weather your theory makes sense…you can see how the clues were interpreted… “L sits and Left” Lincoln Sitting only yards away from the Bowman these are obvious clues. “To Congress R is known” Congress Ave. where Roosevelt University is..again there is no doubt of error, you can see the Bowman again from this location. I think with all of these we have to find the exact match for the visuals in a city and work the verse from there.

Unknown

Unknown:
I can’t verify if this were still the case back in 1981 or if the locking of the park was always in effect or if it happened that way for a reason. I believe the park has actual hours where the public can visit, but I know it would be hard to dig there, unless you had the key and could go at night

I think it has always been that way.
The Park is open to the public on Christmas Eve or it seems that you can gain access to a key if you are a guest of the Gramercy Park Hotel…..Good luck digging there.
Elijah Blue Allman – cool! Going to the final ABB show at the Beacon?

That is what I thought. Grammercy Park CHECK off the list.
I do have a “minion” in NYC who has been working on that casque for a while, if you need scouting done in the big apple he can help…Siskel is not always stacked with free time.

cw0909

and did we check this church and surroundings
Russian Orthodox Cathedral of the Transfiguration of Our Lord
228 Driggs Avenue brooklyn
http://www.roct.org/

I just found this church too. The window matches the curved outline and dividers at the top of image 12. I never realised that the dividers are at a slight angle.
Another confirmation is that the church is in the location of the carnation flower head if you equate the streets N 12th St and Union Avenue to the exact angle of the stem of the flower.

Me too – just not a lot of traffic lately  – it comes in fits and spurts.

anyone out there  ???

I’m here.

This is the exact type of clue he left for Hermann Park with the Pierre quote.
wilhouse

This is the exact type of clue he left for Hermann
Park
with the Pierre quote.
wilhouse

Now thats a wacky sentence. I also would be tempted to think the capitalization leads to the book title relating to Mohicans, but the context stems from their learning “woodcraft”. Could be this is a hint to think of carving a wooden last (bootmaking). Its standard practice to capitilize common nouns in German. It could be that Leshy and Villy are helping us to see some connection to das Boot.

Have you read “Last of the Mohicans” Its obvious this is the link, the book goes on in depth about the woodcraft and woodlore and skills of the mohicans passed down from father to sun and mother to daughter.

Embarrassing…i dont remember anything but I know I read it. Now it makes more sense, thanks.

forest_blight

p. 23. The Russian fairies’ meeting the Mohicans is another link between Image 12 and New York

Unknown

Unknown:
Leshy and Vily, from the forests of Muscovy, instructed the Mohicans in woodcraft, teaching them to move silently and invisibly through the trees – a skill which (learned authorities say) the Mohicans possessed to the Last.

I’m puzzled by the capitalisation of “Last”. Maybe this is a hint for “The Last of the Mohicans” by James Fenimore Cooper.
Fenimore is close to Brooklyn’s Prospect Park.

forest_blight

p. 23. The Russian fairies’ meeting the Mohicans is another link between Image 12 and New York

Unknown

Unknown:
Leshy and Vily, from the forests of Muscovy, instructed the Mohicans in woodcraft, teaching them to move silently and invisibly through the trees – a skill which (learned authorities say) the Mohicans possessed to the Last.

I’m puzzled by the capitalisation of “Last”. Maybe this is a hint for “The Last of the Mohicans” by James Fenimore Cooper.
Fenimore is close to Brooklyn’s Prospect
Park
.

does anyone know bps’ office address in N.Y./ or where his office was
found it not a poet
John Wolfe Ambrose Memorial
Dedicated June 1, 1936
Description: Stele with bust; portrait sculpture of the Irish–American scientist and writer.
Donor/Source: Mrs. George F. Shrady, daughter
Fabricator/Sculptor: Bust: Andrew O–Connor, Jr.; pedestal relief: Frederick George Richard Roth. Architect: Aymar Embury II
http://www.thebattery.org/battery/monuments.php

I’ve been looking through this thread a bit and noticed talk of the number 74 in the water. This is also mentioned on wiki site. I don’t see that number at all, I see “324” and I’m using the image on Wiki.
March 1524 is when Verrazzano went thru the Narrows and up the Hudson. This number is acknowledging that event.

how does 324 relate to 1524? makes no sense…
also,74 is clearly visible on its own…

anus905

it was built because of an act hamilton passed, so either way you look at it…its related to him. you can call it the us custom house if you want, but its known as the alexander hamilton us custom house to everyone else.

well yes and no
it was called the United States Customs house
which was basically shortened to The Customs House
which is the name it has normally and most commonly gone by
in 1990 it was renamed the Alexander Hamilton Customs house. but nobody called it that.
Hamilton was basically in the process of fading away- They were even plans to remove him from the 10$ bill because most people did not even know who he was. the most common guess would have been “an old president?”
and now with the popular musical
Alexander Hamilton is back in vogue, his position on the 10$ is safe and anything with his name attached to it is now called out by his name.

anus905

how does 324 relate to 1524? makes no sense…
also,74 is clearly visible on its own…

The 3 is March, the 24 is 1524. It was kind of a big deal in NY history.

MrBackstop

The 3 is March, the 24 is 1524. It was kind of a big deal in NY history.

I could really get behind this, except one source I looked at put Verrazano in the Carolinas in March and NY Bay in April.

Gman, I’m looking at the big picture here. His ships were sent to the New World to find a path to the Pacific Ocean. They first made landfall in March of 1524 and explored the coastline. He and his crew were the first known explorers to reach present day NYC.

maltedfalcon

well yes and no
it was called the United States Customs house
which was basically shortened to The Customs House
which is the name it has normally and most commonly gone by
in 1990 it was renamed the Alexander Hamilton Customs house. but nobody called it that.
Hamilton was basically in the process of fading away- They were even plans to remove him from the 10$ bill because most people did not even know who he was. the most common guess would have been “an old president?”
and now with the popular musical
Alexander Hamilton is back in vogue, his position on the 10$ is safe and anything with his name attached to it is now called out by his name.

youre an idiot. no wonder you fail at every turn…

where exactly are you seeing the 324? I see the 74 and you seemed to imply its there when its def not?

InstantProof

A particular place came to mind right away, but it’s a place I am very familiar with, so I thought my brain was just making an easy connection, and so I pushed it aside and concentrated on other ideas. After a few days I decided to give my initial idea some looking into and I was shocked to find pieces fitting.

Actually I think that is exactly how these puzzles were designed to be solved! Best of luck to your progress!

boogieman

Good luck. one question. Are you looking in Brooklyn?

Manhattan.
Further research has taken me out of my initial location and to someplace nearby (that I need to visit but the verse appears to be a good fit for).
I will say that I think the painting is doing the guiding and directing to location, while the verse assumes you are already there.

Other places cars may abound:
An amusement
park
— i.e., Dodg’em cars,  or for that matter, any of the other rides
Mines
Boarding stops for tours
Railroad stations, depots
Subway stops
Ferries
Tunnels and Bridges
Border Checkpoints
Drive-in Movies
Just throwing these out there.
c

Other places cars may abound:
An amusement park– i.e., Dodg’em cars,  or for that matter, any of the other rides
Mines
Boarding stops for tours
Railroad stations, depots
Subway stops
Ferries
Tunnels and Bridges
Border Checkpoints
Drive-in Movies
Just throwing these out there.
c

… or an auto junkyard

…or an area where the streets are named after cars.
There’s a road hereabouts named “Four Wheel Dr.” I always chuckle when I pass it.

…or what about a concentration of people who emmigrated from the Carpathian Mountains?

…and Oh, yes, my personal favorite, though nobody else liked it …along the Lincoln Highway through Edison, N.J., which also happens to form part of the “V” at the entrance to the Menlo
Park
Museum, which has 3 volumes of hard word (the entry stone, the museum, and THE TOWER, which co-incidentally happens to fall halfway down 1 side of the “V”. (the side street, not lincoln highway)

…and Oh, yes, my personal favorite, though nobody else liked it …along the Lincoln Highway through Edison, N.J., which also happens to form part of the “V” at the entrance to the Menlo Park Museum, which has 3 volumes of hard word (the entry stone, the museum, and THE TOWER, which co-incidentally happens to fall halfway down 1 side of the “V”. (the side street, not lincoln highway)

adoks53

…or what about a concentration of people who emmigrated from the Carpathian Mountains?

Or the “Carr Family Cemetery?”
ck

You know, maybe this verse refers to Detroit?????
It just o
car
red to me!
c

gManTexas

Personally, I really don’t like trees as a marker or dig spot. Not saying that they could not be involved, but I like things that are more permanent.
Also, unless Preiss was a total tool, I don’t think he would risk destroying a tree, with potentially millions of people digging around them, had this book panned out like expected.

I agree, gMan. I had wondered if 22 steps would get you far enough away from the root system but there was nothing in the vicinity. Another tree saved!

gManTexas

Personally, I really don’t like trees as a marker or dig spot. Not saying that they could not be involved, but I like things that are more permanent.
Also, unless Preiss was a total tool, I don’t think he would risk destroying a tree, with potentially millions of people digging around them, had this book panned out like expected.

Agreed, 100%. Plus Preiss had to plan these out hoping to not spend hours digging. Just try digging near one tree and you’ll learn it’s the worst.

maltedfalcon

Actually BP said he thought they were all easy and that they would be all solved within a year.
The actual progress has occurred when we stick to the basics and find similarities with the solved puzzles.

My comment is based on a citation from an interview shortly after the hunt was published.  I looked around for the link here but I can’t find it.  Maybe someone sent me the archive in an email.  Go ahead and disregard until I find the proof, but I thought it was very interesting that he clarified that some may never be solved.
It was presented like an advertisement, discussing the odd and mysterious fairies of the book.  I don’t think it was the Chicago Tribune.  The Milwaukee Sentinel perhaps?
Damn, I loaned my book out, and now i need it to jog my memory.

I think I’ve been staring at these images too long. Starting to see things that aren’t there… or are they? While looking at image 12 I noticed something. In my verse 10 idea I said to flip to whole image over and look at the part of the dress hanging off the waist. I have an update. This is easier if you have a hard copy of the image or an ipad. But flip the image over. Now tilt it away from you at about a 45 degree angle or more and look at that part of the dress. Maybe close one eye. What do you see? Well I see a view of the face of the statue of liberty from her left side. Her arm is in the background with the wrinkles in the sleeve and the arm going up. The shadows near the top of the face could be the points of the crown. And it looks like it’s just her nose, mouth and chin, no eyes. The mouth being what people think is an eye if the image is looked at right side up. Am I crazy? This may be a defininitive clue for those not thinking NY. She may be our “grey giant”. Let me know what you think.
Deuce

I believe you.  It suggests the SoL as much as it may be intended to.  I’m just not sold on the idea, mostly for a conflict in my own theory about image 12, but mostly again for how I am learning to be wary of some fishy attempts to misdirect and puzzle us.  I have absolutely no doubt Preiss meant to confuse us with options.  Image 12 looked like the SoL from the first time I saw it.  The drape of the dress fit the outline of the Battery Park area, which I am very familiar with since I lived 2 years nearby.  If you ask me, it’s a trick.  Hope I can prove it someday.

Do you think he would go out of his way to use a hidden clue to throw us off though? I think we’re making this thing harder than it has to be. We need to look at the obvious. There’s not a whole lot to some of these images. To throw in a red herring with so few clues as it is would make it impossible. I personally think that he didn’t do anything to throw us off. We need to stick to the basics.

Some are easy, some are difficult.
We have to assume at some point that we might be working with a difficult one.  Images 4 and 5 were either the hard ones or the easy ones.  We don’t know how many of the 12 were going to be easy.

erexere

Some are easy, some are difficult.
We have to assume at some point that we might be working with a difficult one.  Images 4 and 5 were either the hard ones or the easy ones.  We don’t know how many of the 12 were going to be easy.

Actually BP said he thought they were all easy and that they would be all solved within a year.
The actual progress has occurred when we stick to the basics and find similarities with the solved puzzles.

emilyek, this race started 25 years ago.  It slowed to a crawl and has now become more about being fascinated that it is so hard to solve.  The race is over.  We that are here, do not care who finds it.  Lets just do it.  Welcome!

the flower and the face are the only two things you can say you know.find the connection to start this puzzle.get ready to work your ass off.the race is on! find the connection….

Unknown

Unknown:

You are thinking of magic eye hidden pictures or autosterograms which were invented in 1979.
The first book of them was not published until 1993
while possible is not too probable,
I tried that too.

i thought those highlights books, had them to when i was a kid in the 60s?
could be wrong, memory is not what it use to be

what happened with that statue in the pacific northwest, washinton/oregon/vancouver– somewhere around there I thought it was an exact match….

Has anybody suggested Battery Park’s East Coast Memorial as a match for the eagle in the picture? It’s not an exact match though.

unfortunately…all of the eagles/birds we are finding is not an ‘exact’ match.

ravel07

Has anybody suggested Battery Park’s East Coast Memorial as a match for the eagle in the picture? It’s not an exact match though.

I don’t have time today to search through the forum but I think that that eagle was suggested but that it was placed there after 1982.

that eagle was placed and dedicated in 1963.

I don’t know guys….The bird looks like a white eagle with webbed feet, and a seagull’s body.  If that is exactly what JJP meant to paint, I can’t figure what he would mean by that…Long ago I googled white eagle+Brooklyn and came up with a night club and a deli and coincidentally they were close to the church with the domes on Dowd st.  It ended there.  umm

I was looking at image12 and had an idea(probably a stupid one but hey I am all about stupid ideas so I will share it with you.)  The three panels of of the stained glass window that look like circular paving stones kinda reminds me of the 3-dimensional pictures where you are looking at just a mass of color and suddenly your eyes cross and a sailboat or something elsle appears.  Now I have never been able to do it but maybe someone here is better at that than I am.
Just a thought

maltedfalcon

that eagle was placed and dedicated in 1963.

Oh. I was wrong then. For some reason I thought it was part of a Sept. 11th memorial. My bad! In that case, I’ll have to check out the area the next time I’m in NYC.

digger7

I was looking at image12 and had an idea(probably a stupid one but hey I am all about stupid ideas so I will share it with you.)  The three panels of of the stained glass window that look like circular paving stones kinda reminds me of the 3-dimensional pictures where you are looking at just a mass of color and suddenly your eyes cross and a sailboat or something elsle appears.  Now I have never been able to do it but maybe someone here is better at that than I am.
Just a thought

You are thinking of magic eye hidden pictures or autosterograms which were invented in 1979.
The first book of them was not published until 1993
while possible is not too probable,
I tried that too.

I had my wife try it.  Look what happened to her!

its possible thats where he’s directing us. if what i suspect is the case (im not colourblind lol). even then it still could be, just based on the nature of the tech.

look at the corners, one of the tests designs is based on the corners of the images being different if youre colourblind (i think thats right, it may be the reverse)

btw lacma had a 3d exhibit on history of 3d i went to yesterday, its def not anything to do with 3d.

the clue i reff’d suggesting a 3d interpretation might be suggesting a red colour deficiency of some sort. or a blue deficiency. or both. (window to window)

I will admit it has been a LONG time since I have considered any other verse in connection with Image 12. Maybe its just because it is so exhausting to think about going back and retracing steps and heading in an entirely different direction. And I remember years ago the email from BP saying “nothing was buried in Central Park” and I am paraphrasing here as I wish I could go back and read that actual email response again. Looking at your enthusiasm and confidence, I took a quick look and admittedly I DID get chills when I learned that the USS Maine Marine Monument was dedicated MAY 1913 (May 30th to be exact). Is it possible that Verse 6 works with Image 12?? And could the casque be buried just OUTSIDE of Central Park?? The woman rising over the water in image 12 does have at least a cursory resemblance at first glance to that bronze woman riding her sea shell being pulled by those three horses. After all the dead ends on this, I suppose anything is possible. And I sort of love that May 1913 reference. First time in a while the hair on the back of my next stood up and I got goosebumps. If your cousin is in NY and wants a partner to help, I would be more than happy to listen to your theories and assist anyway I can. Living so close to NYC, it would be easy to come in, and having found a casque previously, I bring a different perspective once standing in the right place.

I will admit it has been a LONG time since I have considered any other verse in connection with Image 12. Maybe its just because it is so exhausting to think about going back and retracing steps and heading in an entirely different direction. And I remember years ago the email from BP saying “nothing was buried in
Central
Park
” and I am paraphrasing here as I wish I could go back and read that actual email response again. Looking at your enthusiasm and confidence, I took a quick look and admittedly I DID get chills when I learned that the USS Maine Marine Monument was dedicated MAY 1913 (May 30th to be exact). Is it possible that Verse 6 works with Image 12?? And could the casque be buried just OUTSIDE of
Central
Park
?? The woman rising over the water in image 12 does have at least a cursory resemblance at first glance to that bronze woman riding her sea shell being pulled by those three horses. After all the dead ends on this, I suppose anything is possible. And I sort of love that May 1913 reference. First time in a while the hair on the back of my next stood up and I got goosebumps. If your cousin is in NY and wants a partner to help, I would be more than happy to listen to your theories and assist anyway I can. Living so close to NYC, it would be easy to come in, and having found a casque previously, I bring a different perspective once standing in the right place.

Image 12 = Verse 6 = USS Maine Memorial at Merchant’s gate.
I identified 4 more visual clues in the picture and I am absolutely certain.
My cousin is going to dig for me once she applies to the New York Parks department for the appropriate
“Research Permit” to dig and “Metal Detector Permit” for the ground penetrating radar I will hire, and “Film and Photography Permit” so she can film it for the documentary.
I’ll fill you all in once the casque is out of the ground.

And now for some thoughts …
First off, congrats to Willhouse on getting the use of a ground penetrating device.  When Egbert and I went out to Cleveland we thought of buying until we found out how expensive they are with little or no resale value.  I did suggest that if everyone on this site chipped in $50 we could buy one and circulate it amongst all the treasure hunters every time someone goes out to dig.  Wasn’t sure that a metal detector would be of any value since the casque was ceramic, but discovered the key to have a metal filament in its tip, so even a simple metal detector might prove useful.  Either way, the device you got should prove helpful in your never-ending Houston quest.  If there is any justice in the world, you will find the casque in Herman Park.
Now on to Lower Manhattan.  Egbert came across the aerial photo of Ellis Island and it looked too good to be true.  Given the theme of the book, it seemed natural that the center of immigration in this country would have some tie in to the location of a hidden casque.  We started out by taking the ferry from Battery Park and Castle Clinton (the whirring sound in the summer?).  The approach to Ellis Island seemed promising as you can see in the photos as the tops of the great immigration hall look similar to the image that seems to point to some onion shaped domed structure.  As we pulled into the docking area that is a direct match for the rectangle in the picture, we passed points in the water where only three of the tower tops were visible and more closely resembled the illustrated shape in image 12.  Once docked, we were surprised to see the great windows on the central building – arch shaped and similar to the shape containing image 12.  There are three such windows, each one made up of a grid type structure.  In between each such window, at the very top, stands a statue of an eagle.  The face is distinctly similar to the bird illustation in image 12, which is sure to be a statue of some origin, whether it is from the Chrysler building as has been suggested, or here on Ellis Island.  Combined with the face of the Lady Liberty, there seemed to be an awful lot of clues pointing to Ellis Island.  That much said, there are some obvious problems.  Continued …

Continued … I agree with Willhouse’s earlier post that it is hard to imagine BP digging on the island at ANY time given its historic nature.  On top of that, half the island has been closed off for many years, leaving less of an area for him to have buried the casque and more of a chance of his getting caught during the digging process.  Also, there is no way you would be allowed to dig on that island now and I would venture to guess that was the case in the early 80’s as well, no matter how different a world it may have been.  Still, with so many clues pointing to this general area of lower Manhattan, we thought the image might be highlighting the lower tip of the island and headed back for a look around Battery Park.  First thing we noticed is that Battery Park would be a far easier place to dig.  It is quite expansive and better suited for a private digging session.  Not far from Castle Clinton is the Marine Memorial made up of monoliths surrounding a giant eagle.  The head of the bird (see pix) is not too similar to the one in image 12, which in turn got us thinking again about that damn bird.  It is clearly a bird of prey, but is it an eagle?  The beak is rounded and enlarged, but the feet are more reminiscent of a falcon or a hawk, as eagles have much more pronounced feet and claws.  The bird in the image seems to bear more of a resemblance to a bird used in falconry, especially in the area of the lower extremeties.  And why is it white?  Because it is a statue?  Or are we looking for a white bird?  Anyway, the Marine eagle left us wondering more about that bird and its relevance, which seems extremely significant.  Proceeding further along the water we came up to “Pier A” which juts out into the water just off the coastline and in plain sight of Ellis Island (could this have something to do with Johan’s earlier observation of the large “A” in the water?)  “Pier A” is a fairly famous area and at the very end is a large clock which looked for an instant like the one in image 12, roman numerals and all.  However, upon closer inspection, we could not detect the small circles at the ends of the hands of the clock as depicted in the illustration so not sure it is a perfect match.  We then headed over to the dutch flag pole at the tip of Battery Park in search of a “sign nearby that speaks of Indies Native.”  The base of the monument mentions the purchase of New York by Peter Minuit who was affiliated with the Dutch East Indies Co. (I believe the story portion of the book also references his purchase of Manhattan Island from the Canarsie Indian tribe in exchange for some glass baubles – could the three droplets under the lady rising from the water be the glass baubles and not merely water droplets at all?)  Next we walked to the nearest corner only 40 yards from the flag pole and we stood at the vortex of the intersection where Broadway comes to meet West Street (not 100% certain of the name of the intersecting street, sorry).  It forms a V at this very spot and if you look north, up Broadway, you could say you are gazing north toward the isle (aisle – play on words?) of B (Broadway?) which might explain the reference to the simple roots in Rhapsodic man’s soil by tying in Gershwin to Broadway.  Might be stretching here, but just offering some general observations.  Continued once more …

Continued once more …
Anyway, we walked across the intersection and north on Broadway.  We immediately came to Bowling Green, the first park dedicated in Manhattan.  It is comparatively small and at its northern most tip stands the Wall Street Bull.  Not that the bronzed statue has anything to do with the hunt and I am not even sure when it was erected, but it is worth noting that when standing at this spot and looking due north, the isle of B ultimately draws your eye to a single building in the distance – the only such building visible on the horizon – the Chysler Building (perhaps significant due to the eagle gargoyles that surround the upper portion of this skyscraper and which bear a striking resemblance to our illustrated bird).  I tried to enlarge the picture to demonstrate this fact, but was not very successful, but take my word for it, it is eerily prominant and singularly visible in the distance.  Also worth noting was a sign attached to the fence around Bowling Green (which is also next to a Subway stop – “Cars abound?” or is that just a reference to the sheer volume of traffic at this point?).  I tried to take a picture of it but what it speaks to is the fact that this area was famous for sightings of the Peregrine Falcon (back to that damn bird again) a bird of prey that is bordering on extinction.  The sign indicated that this spot was popular for viewing this rare bird.  While it is doubtful this sign was posted back in 1982, the history may well have been known.  Also, while the Peregrine Falcon’s lower appendeges look more similar to our fine feathered friend in image 12, its beak is quite less pronounced leaving us with a hawklike cross between a falcon and an eagle.  Should be noted that the Peregrine Falcon has a close cousin that is all white, the Gyrfalcon, also pretty rare, but more similar in its look to the one in the picture, however this bird is more closely associated with the arctic region unfortunately.  Some other tidbits that drew us to this area included the reference to the “natives still speak of him of Hard word in three vols.” which thus far Egbert believes might refer to Charles
Dickens
(author of Hard Times which, when written, was divided into three novellas) who visited lower manhattan in the 1860s and came to witness firsthand the area nearby known as the immigrant slum the Five Points (the model for the movie the Gangs of New York).  Another possibility might be an additional reference to Netherlands born Peter Stuyvesant, a harsh ruler (“Hard word?”) and autocrat, especially intolerant of religious dissenters.  He served as director general of New Netherland from 1646-1664 and lost New Netherland to England.  New Amsterdam became New York and Stuyvesant spent the rest of his life on his Manhattan farm called “Bouwerie” in Dutch; the road leading to Stuyvesant’s farm is now the Bowery in Manhattan.  Finally, Egbert and I ventured up to 97th Street, near Central Park, to see the most famous Russian Orthodox Onion Dome church in all of Manahattan, the St. Nicholas Cathedral (again, see pix).  As you can see, the domes are very similar to those depicted in image 12, leading us to believe that the structure is more likely a cathedral and not necessarilly the immigration center on Ellis Island.  Still, that said, there is no other nearby corresponding sites or signs that seem to relate to Image 12 or the verse we were trying to match it to in verse 10.  Frustrating to say the least.  And that is not to mention our inability to find a single stained glass window that bore any resemblance to those three colored panels which, as has been posted before, seem more and more to be a reference to those color blind tests, but without revealing anything hidden within.  In the end, we were unable to narrow our search to a specific area in Manhattan and may have raised more questions than found answers, but we wanted to at least post the pictures with some elaborate explanation for those not able to travel to this area and/or to spark some more discussion for those locals and those far away in attempting to figure out this maddening picture.  Thats all for now.  Hope it was helpful.

Continued once more …
Anyway, we walked across the intersection and north on Broadway.  We immediately came to Bowling Green, the first park dedicated in Manhattan.  It is comparatively small and at its northern most tip stands the Wall Street Bull.  Not that the bronzed statue has anything to do with the hunt and I am not even sure when it was erected, but it is worth noting that when standing at this spot and looking due north, the isle of B ultimately draws your eye to a single building in the distance – the only such building visible on the horizon – the Chysler Building (perhaps significant due to the eagle gargoyles that surround the upper portion of this skyscraper and which bear a striking resemblance to our illustrated bird).  I tried to enlarge the picture to demonstrate this fact, but was not very successful, but take my word for it, it is eerily prominant and singularly visible in the distance.  Also worth noting was a sign attached to the fence around Bowling Green (which is also next to a Subway stop – “Cars abound?” or is that just a reference to the sheer volume of traffic at this point?).  I tried to take a picture of it but what it speaks to is the fact that this area was famous for sightings of the Peregrine Falcon (back to that damn bird again) a bird of prey that is bordering on extinction.  The sign indicated that this spot was popular for viewing this rare bird.  While it is doubtful this sign was posted back in 1982, the history may well have been known.  Also, while the Peregrine Falcon’s lower appendeges look more similar to our fine feathered friend in image 12, its beak is quite less pronounced leaving us with a hawklike cross between a falcon and an eagle.  Should be noted that the Peregrine Falcon has a close cousin that is all white, the Gyrfalcon, also pretty rare, but more similar in its look to the one in the picture, however this bird is more closely associated with the arctic region unfortunately.  Some other tidbits that drew us to this area included the reference to the “natives still speak of him of Hard word in three vols.” which thus far Egbert believes might refer to Charles Dickens (author of Hard Times which, when written, was divided into three novellas) who visited lower manhattan in the 1860s and came to witness firsthand the area nearby known as the immigrant slum the Five Points (the model for the movie the Gangs of New York).  Another possibility might be an additional reference to Netherlands born Peter Stuyvesant, a harsh ruler (“Hard word?”) and autocrat, especially intolerant of religious dissenters.  He served as director general of New Netherland from 1646-1664 and lost New Netherland to England.  New Amsterdam became New York and Stuyvesant spent the rest of his life on his Manhattan farm called “Bouwerie” in Dutch; the road leading to Stuyvesant’s farm is now the Bowery in Manhattan.  Finally, Egbert and I ventured up to 97th Street, near Central Park, to see the most famous Russian Orthodox Onion Dome church in all of Manahattan, the St. Nicholas Cathedral (again, see pix).  As you can see, the domes are very similar to those depicted in image 12, leading us to believe that the structure is more likely a cathedral and not necessarilly the immigration center on Ellis Island.  Still, that said, there is no other nearby corresponding sites or signs that seem to relate to Image 12 or the verse we were trying to match it to in verse 10.  Frustrating to say the least.  And that is not to mention our inability to find a single stained glass window that bore any resemblance to those three colored panels which, as has been posted before, seem more and more to be a reference to those color blind tests, but without revealing anything hidden within.  In the end, we were unable to narrow our search to a specific area in Manhattan and may have raised more questions than found answers, but we wanted to at least post the pictures with some elaborate explanation for those not able to travel to this area and/or to spark some more discussion for those locals and those far away in attempting to figure out this maddening picture.  Thats all for now.  Hope it was helpful.

Thanks Siskel and Egbert!
I’m in total agreement with you all about the impossiblities that the cask is buried on Ellis Island.
I too find it hard to believe it is buried on Ellis Island.

Wonderful!!!  Many facts, but that is where it begins.
Great team work!  This is encouraging when the posts seem to have slackened and we need some excitement and hope.

I did a quick check of my rand mcnally last night and noted that there were several entries for Ellis Ave., Ellis Drive, etc.  Is there anything like that nearby?  Is there an Ellis Park, not associated with Ellis Island?
wilhouse

Reveille aka First Call might be how Preiss links this casque location to the “Goodness first” concept. I think all the solutions may incorporate a “first” association.

Hi. I have tried researching if anyone has already located this. Couldn’t find anything. Anyway I spotted that the Statue of Liberty’s forehead and nose is the shape of one of the bridges. Not sure which one.

if the colors aren’t for the subway, maybe it is for tiffany’s, not sure if for the store on manhattan, or where he lived on long island.
i liked this stained glass “charity”  to look like our image.
i know this one is in new jersey, but there is a st. john’s right by the john paul jones
park
.  and marine avenue and the toll road.
http://www.ettc.net/njarts/details.cfm?ID=1156
2nd picture

if the colors aren’t for the subway, maybe it is for tiffany’s, not sure if for the store on manhattan, or where he lived on long island.
i liked this stained glass “charity”  to look like our image.
i know this one is in new jersey, but there is a st. john’s right by the john paul jones park.  and marine avenue and the toll road.
http://www.ettc.net/njarts/details.cfm?ID=1156
2nd picture

Could this be the face in hidden in Liberty’s dress?
The National Museum of the American Indian, George Gustav Heye Center, is located at One Bowling Green adjacent to the northeast corner of Battery Park, New York, New York

Could this be the face in hidden in Liberty’s dress?
The National Museum of the American Indian, George Gustav Heye Center, is located at One Bowling Green adjacent to the northeast corner of Battery
Park
, New York, New York

i was all into that for awhile cormac…but i believe it wasn’t here until after 1982, that’s why i dropped it, was i mistaken?
is that the alexander hamilton custom house?
i just found this cormac:
“In 2004, the museum at the Mall opened.(washington, dc) There are two more facilities united under the name of NMAI: the George Gustav Heye Center New York that opened in 1994, to not completely remove the collection and the museum idea from its home location New York City, and the collecting and research house in Maryland, Suitland, that opened in 1999 (c”
but that indian on the building…..i like it

The Museum  and GGHC opened too late… but the building they are housed in is a much earlier NY landmark.
The architecture was there with 4 statues depicting different continents. The American one has a Native American Indian theme, with an Indian in the background and Nat-Am Potery behind the right part of the statue… though not seen in the picture
The George Gustav Heye Center is the branch in New York City of the National Museum of the American Indian, which is part of the Smithsonian Institution. The center is named for George Gustav Heye. The collection features contemporary and historical exhibits of art and artifacts by and about Native Americans.
The collection is housed at the
Alexander Hamilton U.S. Custom House on Bowling Green in lower Manhattan
. The Beaux Arts-style building, designed by architect Cass Gilbert,
was completed in 1907
. It is a designated National Historic Landmark and a New York City landmark.

http://local.live.com/default.aspx?v=2& … ne=1917635
Live search is pretty cool.  So,the above link is the Peter Minuet Plaza, (triangular section to the right of Battery Park) the exact spot where Manhattan was purchased for fruits and crafts.  Notice the flag pole, only standing member to the south.  The small brick and white building just north and to the left of the Plaza, is the St Elizabeth Ann Seton Church where our raised statue of St Seton resembles the lady in image12.
The plaza was not approachable last September but sure looks like it now.  White stone closest? 12 paces?  Remember, where the plaza is now was the shore line, Battery park was made from weight and roots extended.
Seeing the Local Live site brought me back here again.  Stercox, hope you don’t mind if I steal verse5 for this….
edit: may have to navigate around with the live map above to get to the plaza, which has changed quite a bit since 82′.
Also, thinking the water below wave in the image may be a map of the area.  Kinda forcing i think.

since this is the russian image, i kept wondering what john paul jones
park
had to do with russia…..but world war 1 was with russia
(dover patrol monument)
the flag pole was put in in 1980-at the base it says ““in honor of John Paul Jones, the father of the Navy.”
father= simple roots, navy=  “v”
and “him of Hard word in 3 vols.” ———led zeppelin, hard rock, vol. iii, the immigrant song, john paul jones
……….but a zeppelin is german?
but the lady is floating in the air, like a zeppelin
anyway, what made me wonder about this is i saw on tv show that russian “v” is a B…….probably not important, but you know me, i jumped, lol
is the flagpole anywhere close to 22 feet from the dover patrol monument boogieman? (from the 11 on the clock, twice as many)

since this is the russian image, i kept wondering what john paul jones park had to do with russia…..but world war 1 was with russia
(dover patrol monument)
the flag pole was put in in 1980-at the base it says ““in honor of John Paul Jones, the father of the Navy.”
father= simple roots, navy=  “v”
and “him of Hard word in 3 vols.” ———led zeppelin, hard rock, vol. iii, the immigrant song, john paul jones
……….but a zeppelin is german?
but the lady is floating in the air, like a zeppelin
anyway, what made me wonder about this is i saw on tv show that russian “v” is a B…….probably not important, but you know me, i jumped, lol
is the flagpole anywhere close to 22 feet from the dover patrol monument boogieman? (from the 11 on the clock, twice as many)

Look at the bird statue on President Harding’s Visit memorial in Stanley Park in Vancouver.
www.seestanleypark.com/statplaq/page9bstat&plaq.htm
I have also posted some connection on the verse 10 thread (him of Hard word).

Id say you found that ugly bird!!!
sneaky if he purposely stuck in red herrings to make it like new york….

just thought this was interesting (man and beast, mozart and beethoven comments from solved ones)
the hamilton fountain was created for “man and beast”:
http://www.nycgovparks.org/parks/rivers … ghts/12331

Slappy, I really think that you are going to be the one!!  One of these posts of yours is going to crack this thing.
The natives still speak….maybe some of Hamilton’s relatives that lived here in NY, in 1981?

oh i wish boogieman!

OK, off the domes for a sec. After staring at image 12 for a while,( pic up side down), I googled some New Jersey images and got this:
http://www.capitolimpact.com/gw/maps/nj.gif
I live in Jersey and always watch the weather on TV.  Every time they show the map of NJ, something bothers me about the
northern
section of the state.  If you cut the image above in half, the north part almost looks like a facial profile.
Then I looked at image 12 up side down, saw the neck of the woman, and the hair on the left side of the image. I saw the Raritan River with the neck and the face in the hair. I don’t think it’s a face now.  Only when I watch the weather ha ha. Wow. Am I crazy or what.  Egbert, you live here, do you see it? Anyone?
http://www.freewebs.com/patcash/pics.htm
What’s more, the face of the liberty lady, when up side down, becomes a sailboat.  Look at the wave in the image,  which is now at the top, and you see the word SINK.  Gotta be a boat that sunk in the NYC Harbor! I think.
edit:Found this in Jersey City. St Peters church.  Want to see if the school has a maroon and cream scoreboard.  I work in Jersey City and will check this out on Saturday.
http://www.oca.org/Images/Directory/pho … jerspp.jpg

slappybuns

wonder if it’s tiffany glass

I was looking for the stuff in the Chrysler Museum earlier – they seem to have quite a lot of it.
http://www.chrysler.org/glass.asp
And similar glassware like
this Lafarge firescreen
.
Lafarge loved this kind of thing. Here’s a detail from one of his masterpieces at Trinity Church in Copley Square, Boston.
The dragon background in image 1 also has a similar design.
(Born in New York, buried in Brooklyn.)

!  i’ve been looking at the same thing today whiterabbit!
but mostly at church windows
la farge did the window at columbia university too, i think…getting them all mixed up

those dots drive me crazy AP.
there is a
berry
street up by mccarren park, and this
eye
and ear hospital on greene avenue,  then u wonder if it’s
tiffany glass
or my
subway
theory
http://fadingad.wordpress.com/2009/03/0 … -brooklyn/
and doesn’t it bug you that the zip code for brooklyn area is 11221, or 11222, just seems mean.
and what if isn’t a real clock in the last picture, just a symbolic one like the big “WATCHTOWER” sign in brooklyn
http://theweblicist.com/wordpress/2007/ … rcle-line/
http://www.shawnhoke.com/tag/brooklyn-bridge/
and what if the image is just saying “columbia university”
http://www.flickr.com/photos/wallyg/1022884903/
that is kind of interesting, read under that photo, French who designed Minerva, was noted for hiding “owls” in his art work, and
there is one hidden in the folds of her cloak………….just like stuff is hidden in the folds of our image
i have been wondering if a “library” could be around all the hidden casques (like copley and cleveland)
or maybe it’s the Church of Ascension on fith avenue

“Consider a group of those frugal Lowland Dwarves, the Alven, hovering, invisible, and observing in economic agony while their old friends the Canarsie tribe traded Manhattan Island for a handful of trinkets! (Could it be that they imagined Peter Minuit’s glass baubles possessed the same worth as the Alven’s Treasure-Stone?)”
I was recently puzzling over why this paragraph mixed the Dutch up with Manhattan. Only just realised that
Peter Minuit
had Dutch connections.
“Canarsie Indians, who were part of the Mohegan Nation and spoke Algonquin, lived in and around present-day Owl’s Head Park. They fished in the Hudson River and New York Harbor, collected oysters on the shore, and farmed the fertile outwash plain. The first Europeans to settle this land were of Dutch descent.”
I found some background on the estate in the Brooklyn Eagle’s online archive. Search for “owls head park”, click “A Mansion on a Bluff” and then “View…PDF”. It’s mixed up with the creation of the Brooklyn Bridge among other things.
http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/ … kin=BEagle
Simple roots…plain…Plane tree…? They have a characteristic peeling white bark. (Waves…?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platanus_occidentalis
* * * * *
(Couple of pics of Owls Head Park)
One of the world’s largest owls is America’s Great Grey Owl. Grey giant…?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Grey_Owl

“Consider a group of those frugal Lowland Dwarves, the Alven, hovering, invisible, and observing in economic agony while their old friends the Canarsie tribe traded Manhattan Island for a handful of trinkets! (Could it be that they imagined Peter Minuit’s glass baubles possessed the same worth as the Alven’s Treasure-Stone?)”
I was recently puzzling over why this paragraph mixed the Dutch up with Manhattan. Only just realised that
Peter Minuit
had Dutch connections.
“Canarsie Indians, who were part of the Mohegan Nation and spoke Algonquin, lived in and around present-day Owl’s Head
Park
. They fished in the Hudson River and New York Harbor, collected oysters on the shore, and farmed the fertile outwash plain. The first Europeans to settle this land were of Dutch descent.”
I found some background on the estate in the Brooklyn Eagle’s online archive. Search for “owls head
park
“, click “A Mansion on a Bluff” and then “View…PDF”. It’s mixed up with the creation of the Brooklyn Bridge among other things.
http://eagle.brooklynpubliclibrary.org/ … kin=BEagle
Simple roots…plain…Plane tree…? They have a characteristic peeling white bark. (Waves…?)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Platanus_occidentalis
* * * * *
(Couple of pics of Owls Head
Park
)
One of the world’s largest owls is America’s Great Grey Owl. Grey giant…?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Great_Grey_Owl

it won’t let me load any picture
but it’s on the bottom right of the waves, the dark part
not in the flat water but the right side of the waves

lol, and i just realized what the
pebbles
are, in the image!  it’s the
glass baubles
peter minuit sold manhattan for!!
thanks for writing that Whiterabbit!
wouldn’t that make sense!
peter minuit plaza or the netherlands monument at the entrance to battery park!
http://www.insidetheapple.net/006-Nethe … agpole.jpg
There are two memorials to the famous $24 bargain: Peter Minuit Plaza, just outside the entrance to the South Ferry terminal of the Staten Island Ferry, and the Netherlands Memorial Flagpole, a gift from the people of Holland in 1926 to mark the 300th anniversary of the transaction. The flagpole is just inside the entrance to Battery Park and shows Peter Minuit frozen in the midst of handing over the fabled “beads and trinkets.”
and there is the ferry terminal too
22
http://www.hmdb.org/Marker.asp?Marker=13930
rhapsodic man’s soil————-
peter minuet
🙂  (the dance, music)

lol, and i just realized what the
pebbles
are, in the image!  it’s the
glass baubles
peter minuit sold manhattan for!!
thanks for writing that Whiterabbit!
wouldn’t that make sense!
peter minuit plaza or the netherlands monument at the entrance to battery
park
!
http://www.insidetheapple.net/006-Nethe … agpole.jpg
There are two memorials to the famous $24 bargain: Peter Minuit Plaza, just outside the entrance to the South Ferry terminal of the Staten Island Ferry, and the Netherlands Memorial Flagpole, a gift from the people of Holland in 1926 to mark the 300th anniversary of the transaction. The flagpole is just inside the entrance to Battery
Park
and shows Peter Minuit frozen in the midst of handing over the fabled “beads and trinkets.”
and there is the ferry terminal too
22
http://www.hmdb.org/Marker.asp?Marker=13930
rhapsodic man’s soil————-
peter minuet
🙂  (the dance, music)

I’ve picked a spot in Owl’s Head Park where I’d look for the simple roots.
The shape of Owl’s Head Park is given by this corner in Image 12.
Note that there’s a distinctive highlighted blob with a circle. The bird looks like he’s about to eat it.
On the map, this position is at the top of Narrows Ave, 22 blocks from Shore Road Park.
Here’s the view looking towards the park from this point…
Note the manhole…
…and the “One Way” sign…
Here’s a “V” at that point…
Would be interested to see if there was a plane tree here.

I’ve picked a spot in Owl’s Head
Park
where I’d look for the simple roots.
The shape of Owl’s Head
Park
is given by this corner in Image 12.
Note that there’s a distinctive highlighted blob with a circle. The bird looks like he’s about to eat it.
On the map, this position is at the top of Narrows Ave, 22 blocks from Shore Road
Park
.
Here’s the view looking towards the
park
from this point…
Note the manhole…
…and the “One Way” sign…
Here’s a “V” at that point…
Would be interested to see if there was a plane tree here.

glass baubles
http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl=htt … 95&bih=545
forest and boogie! are you guys listening??
by the way guys, i did find a buffalo on the manhattan bridge
http://www.museumplanet.com/tour.php/nyc/mb/5
http://www.flickr.com/photos/emilio_guerra/5384318786/

slappybuns

by the way guys, i did find a buffalo on the manhattan bridge

Hah. I like the Manhattan Bridge as it’s got my “American Venus” Audrey Munson.
Plus it’s next to the Brooklyn Bridge, which is a step closer to owl-land.
I haven’t seen your water buffalo yet though. I’ll have to take another look…

http://citynoise.org/article/9313
here ya go whiterabbit, very first pic, at the top of the arch
look at this comic of boss tweed with the moneybag on his face………:/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_M._Tweed

(Cool…I meant I saw the one on the bridge…but I haven’t seen the one in the pic…)

I think the most frustrating part of image 12 are those damn color dots in the window frames!!
What if any are the theories on that, other then the whole color blind test theory?

Stained glass window.

erexere

Stained glass window.

It doesn’t really have the patterns of a stained glass window, and that would be as random as putting an image of a stop sign.

MrSeabass

Some things in the images are just there because
everybody was on cocaine
it looked cool back then. Seeing as we used 17 different levels of filtering ranging from comicbook 3d glasses to photoshop to determine any hidden imagery or filtration and found nothing, then I would assume that nothing is there.

“Cocaine is a hell of a drug!”
-Rick James (RIP)
So lets just say for argument sake, I ate a whole bag of mushrooms. Will this help my image revealing experience or harm it?

NYCNative

I think the most frustrating part of image 12 are those damn color dots in the window frames!!
What if any are the theories on that, other then the whole color blind test theory?

I believe I heard somewhere that the artist, JJP, said that it was supposed to have some effect, but that it didn’t work out so well when it went to press. I’m of the opinion that you have to manipulate the image somehow, using technology that was available in 1982.
If we skip to Image 2 for a minute, the general consensus is that the skull is a reference to Edgar Allan Poe’s short story The Gold Bug. In that story, there is a cipher written on a slip of paper that only appeared after the paper was subjected to the heat of a fire in the fireplace. This may be a subtle hint that we are supposed to do things to the images to reveal clues. The question is what. It seems reasonable in Image 12 to get some old school 3D glasses and look through them. Maybe some other non-destructive photo manipulation as well.
Having said all that, I’m not sure that it will matter. I believe there are various ways to derive the general casque location, e.g. from mapping overlays and the descriptions in the Verses. I highly doubt that there is a message in the window frames that says something like, “The exact coordinates for the casque are…”

gManTexas

I believe I heard somewhere that the artist, JJP, said that it was supposed to have some effect, but that it didn’t work out so well when it went to press. I’m of the opinion that you have to manipulate the image somehow, using technology that was available in 1982.
If we skip to Image 2 for a minute, the general consensus is that the skull is a reference to Edgar Allan Poe’s short story The Gold Bug. In that story, there is a cipher written on a slip of paper that only appeared after the paper was subjected to the heat of a fire in the fireplace. This may be a subtle hint that we are supposed to do things to the images to reveal clues. The question is what. It seems reasonable in Image 12 to get some old school 3D glasses and look through them. Maybe some other non-destructive photo manipulation as well.
Having said all that, I’m not sure that it will matter. I believe there are various ways to derive the general casque location, e.g. from mapping overlays and the descriptions in the Verses. I highly doubt that there is a message in the window frames that says something like, “The exact coordinates for the casque are…”

Yeah, i understand. No one image is going to be of any significance by itself, but at this point, I am just desperate to find something new, something we missed, a better translation and/or sequence to the verse. I think I have tried every filter and backlight to get something out of it that really does not help to much. I made the picture into a negative, took out prime colors, did the 3D effect…nothing!
How about those water droplets?
Some people have theories having to do with vectors, which I know nothing about. One of our partners out in Cali who is working with the SF puzzle (digging and probing) have made progress. Even theorizing that the “v” in the verse might stand for vector. Thoughts?

MrSeabass

Over the years I’ve tried just about every optical trick to reveal anything there. Gel filters, colorblindness filters, cross-eye, tiltshift/perception distortion – any accessible or hip technology from the 70’s on up. Only thing I haven’t done is UV light since I don’t have the book, but I would assume that’s been tested by now. And even then, we should have seen a hint of that type of reveal by now in any of the images.

I printed the image and tried different lights, even UV, and nada.

Over the years I’ve tried just about every optical trick to reveal anything there. Gel filters, colorblindness filters, cross-eye, tiltshift/perception distortion – any accessible or hip technology from the 70’s on up. Only thing I haven’t done is UV light since I don’t have the book, but I would assume that’s been tested by now. And even then, we should have seen a hint of that type of reveal by now in any of the images.
I printed the image and tried different lights, even UV, and nada.
Well UV won’t work unless you have the original print. You cant ‘copy’ UV ink.
And getting a hold of the original print is near impossible, so that is not an option.
So what are popular theories on the water droplets?
I also see on the lady’s face under the nose and between the lips is a dividing shadow that seems intentional? Any thoughts?

This thread is not getting much action so I thought I should throw up an observation!
Lady’s left hand fingers remind me of the old Bell system’s yellow pages symbol.

Well, verses 6 & 10 do not seem to have a home yet.   Might this be the “slender path”, a bike path, under the Verrazano Bridge?
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/103692 … 3266xOhgaF
or
http://travel.webshots.com/photo/103692 … 3266ZNZTJP
Puzzle piece? Verrazano in background.
http://family.webshots.com/photo/114858 … 6043wNXwpo
Cars abound?  Near bike path.
http://home-and-garden.webshots.com/pho … TnfbQWXpED
In the shadow?
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/1234235 … 6713siqKEq
SLENDER
path- Verrazano
NARROWS
Bridge

Wow Fox.  Things i discounted along time ago may actually mean something.  A thought.. Are you saying maybe these thing are put into the 12 images i.e., Kaaterskills representing the water (wave) in P12, for the sole purpose of figuring out where the settlers settled and then the verse gets you to the X?  Because these places in the book are pretty much hundreds of miles apart.  (The Catskills and Brooklyn, for example.)

Not exactly sure what I am saying.  I think it may be more than a coincidence that the story (of the actual fair folk, not the silly ones in the back of the book) tells of certain fair folk going to certain places.  ie.. the Catskills one…yes, it is far from Brooklyn or NYC for that matter, but it specifically tells of NY state.  Others talk of Florida as well as the Djinn heading for the great southwest.  We have had all along, thanks to Wilhouse, the Djinn P leading us to Houston, TX.  Coincidence…?…I am not sure, but may be something else to study.

Regarding the silhouette:  I think it’s the signature for “Russia” on the painting.
It’s 1981, the Cold War is going full-strength, and the Soviets are the sure-enough enemy.  You’re an artist who needs something visual that says “old Russia” without saying “Soviet”.  Russian Orthodox onion domes are a perfect way of getting “old Russia” into the painting.
The architectural depictions we see in the paintings are a mixed bag.
– The silhouettes in the Charleston (Ft. Sumter), Cleveland (Terminal Tower) and Milwaukee (City Hall) pictures are definitely real structures.
– The “pedestal” structure in the Cleveland picture, though, is a collage mixing actual garden elements with (apparently) fictional parts.
– Chicago has the archer statue, but the Water Tower has seen some artistic license, and they are also blended onto a “fantasy” castle structure.
– Houston’s columns are apparently stylistic representations of trees or poles.
– And the rest?  We just don’t know.
Taken altogether, I believe there’s reason to doubt that it’s a literal representation.  Not trying to have a fight, just don’t feel justified in being adamant either way.
Pine

Pine_Tree

Regarding the silhouette:  I think it’s the signature for “Russia” on the painting.
It’s 1981, the Cold War is going full-strength, and the Soviets are the sure-enough enemy.  You’re an artist who needs something visual that says “old Russia” without saying “Soviet”.  Russian Orthodox onion domes are a perfect way of getting “old Russia” into the painting.

PT, I never thought of it that way.  It does make sense though when looking at the line from the Litany of Jewels relating to this P.  Here is the line:
A Topaz is the Russian prize:
The royal sunstone, frozen fire.
You may be onto something here.

http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= … D%26sa%3DN
Different view of the church on 12 th & Driggs Ave.  There’s a tall rectangular structure like in image12 that I thought might have been One World Trade prior to 9/11.  There’s also an arch much like the shape of the entire image.  Can’t find bubbles or a maroon and cream structure.  As good a direction to go as any other I suppose…..Stand in the street and take a picture, right FB? Who knows?

http://www.forgotten-ny.com/STREET%20SC … nstat.html
ben franklin statue….printer (hard word) and wrote 3
hymn
books
his arms are out like in the image..
in 1 Pace plaza………..verse 5? Paces
u think the flower is little in the image?  “little flower” for mayor laguardia

or maybe it’s just saying “heaven”…………..stairway to heaven………led zeppelin  ………john paul jones
3rd volume……………the immigrant song
http://www.sidewalklyrics.com/?attachment_id=6787
or a church…………
or “lady of the lake”  by sir walter scott

The fence is about 20 feet long, it is past the picnic area and outside of the park proper it was in the yard of a property owner
and there was a big do not disturb the nesting peacocks near it.

Thought this might help in identifying shapes for maps.  I noticed that the island of Manhattan has roughly the same shape as the sash on the woman’s dress.  Also, there was something I came across as I was surfing….has anyone considered the location as City Hall Park?  One o the reasons I’m asking is that they actually dug up a lot of this park a few years back when they discovered it had been the site for an African burial ground back in pre-revolutionary times. The Northeastern sector of the park was dug in and several dozen human remains were discovered. This isn’t connected (that I can tell) to the casque, but the dome of the municipal building in the background looks a little like the domes pictured to me–or one of them, anyway. Also, the statue of Nathan Hale in this park is in roughly the same position as the woman’s figure–arms sort of out the the sides, in that same madonna-like pose. The shape of the park also mimics the bottom hemline of her dress.
I didn’t know how married you all were to your locations for this image…but I thought there might be possibilities here. I can’t seem to get any really good pictures of the park or the statuary there, or see if there are any other markers that might help place something here.
c

shecrab, City Hall park has been discussed at length.  It looks good, but haven’t nailed any confirmers.  I’ll look again.
There are only a few verses left.
??
Just an interesting bit on the statue:
The New Colossus
——————————————————————————–
Not like the brazen giant of Greek fame,
With conquering limbs astride from land to land;
Here at our sea-washed, sunset gates shall stand
A mighty woman with a torch whose flame
Is imprisoned lightning, and her name
Mother of Exiles. From her beacon-hand
Glows world-wide welcome; her mild eyes command
The air-bridged harbor that twin cities frame.
“Keep ancient lands your storied pomp!” cries she with silent lips.
“Give me your tired your poor,
Your huddled masses yearning to breathe free,
The wretched refuse of your teeming shore.
Send these, the homeless, tempest-tossed to me,
I lift my lamp beside the golden door!”
——————————————————————————–
Emma Lazarus (1849-1887)
beside the golden door
.  Narrows.  Not the only way into the harbor, but the easiest.

did anyone ever actually dig in fort hamilton? i am new to this hunt and i went out and bought the book. i am in new york and will be willing to help in any way i can to anyone that is out of the area.
one of the thorns in my side about image 12 is why would the image clues bring us to ellis island only to lead us elsewhere. because i don’t think digging is allowed on ellis island and more importantly if your are on ellis island there would be no isle to “look north toward the isle of b”
has anyone ever considered the staten island side of the Vz bridge? the north shore of staten island looks similar to the bottom of the dress in image 12. just throwing sh*t out there to see what sticks lol.

Choice

I see a 75.
Now that I look at it closer that lower part looks like a St. 85th St.?

As in the same 85th street where Fort Hamilton HS is located? That’s very interesting. Actually one of the most interesting observations about this painting I have ever read. Wow.

davinci4

I don’t see any past Fort Hamilton high school. Using this criteria, coupled with our other criteria thus far, it would make Owls Head for example, a more northern location, an unlikely site.

NYCNative

I am not opposed to opening another thread about Battery park, maybe I missed something.

Well, there’s a ft hamilton pkwy exit-coming-up sign at the foot bridge leading from Shore Pkwy Promenade to Old Glory. That’s north of the school. But that’s MY Indie’s native [for a theory in that area] and you can’t have it.
Good, because I just started putting together a formal document indicating the overwhelming amount of matches in that area. No one has been able to take it further because I’ve yet to see anyone refer to the proper locations of all the monuments aside from Verrazzano in 1980. (the old school map that I found at the Library is in another thread named aptly. This shows that every single monument has moved quite a bit.). I’ve found it noteworthy that all the monuments with image or possible verse matches are much closer to each other in their original locations on that map. And yes, I know whenever you successfully convince me to give up on Battery Park, within weeks I’m crawling back to it haha.
Thanks Idyl for the bubble quote transcript. My [not SIC] was a lazy effort

davinci4

… That’s very interesting. Actually one of the most interesting observations about this painting I have ever read. Wow.

You’re welcome? I don’t get sarcasm most of the time so let me know if it’s meant to be sarcastic!

GoldenMartyr

Some of the dots should disappear if the printing was accurate. Count the remaining dots for coordinates.

This is cool.
My only reservation is that the middle panel is almost entirely uniform. Because of the color choices, I always wondered if they depicted dawn to dusk from left to right. Especially since the middle one is uniformly sky blue. This interpretation could manifest in a clue kind of like this:
https://ephemeralnewyork.wordpress.com/ … culptures/
Day and Night used to flank a clock on Penn Station. While I don’t think this is THE clue, this is the kind of physical manifestation I’d expect from a dawn to dusk interpretation of those dots.

Choice

You’re welcome? I don’t get sarcasm most of the time so let me know if it’s meant to be sarcastic!

Choice

You’re welcome? I don’t get sarcasm most of the time so let me know if it’s meant to be sarcastic!

Not at all. If you look at some of my previous posts, I have been seriously considering the v in front of Fort Hamilton HS as the cask location. I definitely see “St.” “8” and what looks a “5” or possibly “3”. There was talk in the podcast that this clue may have been watered down from the original painting when it went to print. In fact, I just pulled my original copy of the book which I haven’t done in a while. I think you really found something here. Nice work!

It could actually be both 83 and 85 like between 83rd and 85th St.
Infact if you look at that window pane with the blue lens of a 3D glasses the 85 and St. pops out at you.

phrabbott

Early on in this stream I had the desire to blurt out the classic forum “look at all the interpretations I can think of” bullshit of “but what if it’s
AISLE
of B or what if the Indies native is Fraunces (the only sign that actually says Indies Native on it).” But I didn’t because it’s clear you’re specifically working the “isle of b is bedloe and Indies native is Hamilton” angle which is fine as it put you in a specific area.
However, I think to assume “nearby” means a Hamilton sign is visible from the dig site or park is a mistake that will put you at a standstill and hurt your forward progress. At some point it’s crucial to let the puzzle pieces fall in place from discovery and not force them to be where you expect them to be.
For example: Indies native in my theory [for that region] is merely telling you which way to turn/go/not go before you’ve even reached the park.
The reason you’ll never get a definitive answer from that line of thought is that Hamilton is all over the place in that region. Ft Hamilton Parkway is long, Ft Hamilton the neighborhood is large, and there are signs all up and down the belt parkway for various ft Hamilton exits. Plus, it’s nearly impossible from my research to figure out where exactly exit signs were in 1980. You also have the high school and the fort with multiple signs around them.
My unsolicited advice: If you really want to blow this (or any) theory wide open, spend some time solving the three dot panels which no one seems to have successfully done. They take up a TON of real estate and must be important. I’ll help you with this when I get back to town this weekend. I’m preparing some tedious visuals that I’m hoping will spur some ideas on these panels.
To start, JJP said something about the relationship of the Large dots to Small dots being important to which Byron said “oooo that’s hard” [not SIC]

Although we are seemingly going in a specific direction with some assumptions we can sort of agree upon, that does not mean that other perspectives are not welcome and needed. We could be wrong about everything as of far. At best, I hope these series of post just helps us focus and exhaust options before moving on and down another rabbit hole.
Fraunces is a good match for Indies native, I agree. Then what though? Battery park has been researched over and over again (thanks to EU) and the trail falls short in the end. I am not opposed to opening another thread about Battery park, maybe I missed something. However, I am pretty certain there is nothing there and if there is, it has probably been paved over.
As far as the dots go, I HATE them! You are right, nobody even has a good theory what they can be. So many people use those panels to see what they want to see usually. So much so that mostly everyone has decided to just ignore them altogether. Especially after the podcast where it was quoted as being to difficult to solve. It would be amazing to decipher those panels, and also might be a good thread to start, just so that we are not all over the place in one thread.
Lets break this up into a few tasks and get a better idea of what is going on!

Also, I agree about the Hamilton sign. I do not think it has to be in the park necessarily. Nearby is nearby, especially in an area look south Brooklyn where there are so many things named after Hamilton in one small area. So many signs of Hamilton that the problem would be picking the right one. In continuing our search in South Brooklyn we can say for sure there are signs nearby of Hamilton in any of the approved park areas listed.

Hi phrabbot. Yes. There are many references to Hamilton in this area. In this regard, trying to treat this riddle like a classic logic puzzle whereby we locate the cask site based on exclusion. For example, we have narrowed focus to the southwestern Brooklyn. If you put pins on a map, there is density of possible ‘Hamilton signs’ near the Verrazano that gradually fade out as you go north on the Belt/Shore Road. I don’t see any past Fort Hamilton high school. Using this criteria, coupled with our other criteria thus far, it would make Owls Head for example, a more northern location, an unlikely site.
NYC. Going by your previous observation. I would like to go one step further. It seems that the line of site to SOL in Shore Road Park really begins somewhere around 91st. Can we say that anything south of 91st is less likely based on visibility of SOL? If we go by this assumption, it does narrow things down quite a bit. Fort Hamilton High School is the only reference I can see in that area (correct me if I am wrong). So maybe Shore Road Park from approximately 91st to Bay Ridge Ave is our focus area with the cask site being less likely to be “nearby” the further we get away from the high school.
There are a couple of v’s in that area too. White Rabbits v in front of the high school, and two at the botanical gardens. Any others? Thoughts?

NYCNative

As far as the dots go, I HATE them! You are right, nobody even has a good theory what they can be. So many people use those panels to see what they want to see usually. So much so that mostly everyone has decided to just ignore them altogether. Especially after the podcast where it was quoted as being to difficult to solve. It would be amazing to decipher those panels, and also might be a good thread to start, just so that we are not all over the place in one thread.

How many coordinates are visible in image 12?
People have discussed color filters over the years. Colors are also potentially called out in the image and verse. Imagine using filters that are potentially called out in the puzzle on the dots. Something like this:
https://www.education.com/science-fair/article/colored-lights-effect/
Some of the dots should disappear if the printing was accurate. Count the remaining dots for coordinates.

Are there any areas/parks in southwestern Brooklyn we could cross off the list based on the lack of an Alexander Hamilton reference? (Like Owl Park?)
I agree. Would leave ‘hard word’ aside for now and do also feel Verrazano bridge was meant to be a major landmark in this puzzle. The shape of the painting has a strong resemblance to the bridge.
One other thought. I would start drawing imaginary lines (west to east) over proposed site areas after we exclude those that don’t have a Hamilton reference. Would be curious to see if any of these lines might fit with ‘east steps from the branch of a v.’

davinci4

Are there any areas/parks in southwestern Brooklyn we could cross off the list based on the lack of an Alexander Hamilton reference? (Like Owl Park?)
I agree. Would leave ‘hard word’ aside for now and do also feel Verrazano bridge was meant to be a major landmark in this puzzle. The shape of the painting has a strong resemblance to the bridge.
One other thought. I would start drawing imaginary lines (west to east) over proposed site areas after we exclude those that don’t have a Hamilton reference. Would be curious to see if any of these lines might fit with ‘east steps from the branch of a v.’

We can probably thin out that list but we also run into the problem of knowing how nearby this Hamilton sign would be? i would say that owl’s head doesn’t have much to offer as far as relevant history or landmarks. The rest of the parks on that strip are all possible sights.
Another thought. If we are still going on the being able to see all the clues from the dig spot, beside the SOL, and the Verrazzano, what else should be visible?

That’s a good question. Verazzano definitely visible. SOL definitely (although says “toward” not “at” so one may have some flexibility here). The Hamilton sign should be visible on the grounds/park (subjective I know) but not necessarily at the exact dig spot.

davinci4

That’s a good question. Verazzano definitely visible. SOL definitely (although says “toward” not “at” so one may have some flexibility here). The Hamilton sign should be visible on the grounds/park (subjective I know) but not necessarily at the exact dig spot.

Early on in this stream I had the desire to blurt out the classic forum “look at all the interpretations I can think of” bullshit of “but what if it’s
AISLE
of B or what if the Indies native is Fraunces (the only sign that actually says Indies Native on it).” But I didn’t because it’s clear you’re specifically working the “isle of b is bedloe and Indies native is Hamilton” angle which is fine as it put you in a specific area.
However, I think to assume “nearby” means a Hamilton sign is visible from the dig site or park is a mistake that will put you at a standstill and hurt your forward progress. At some point it’s crucial to let the puzzle pieces fall in place from discovery and not force them to be where you expect them to be.
For example: Indies native in my theory [for that region] is merely telling you which way to turn/go/not go before you’ve even reached the park.
The reason you’ll never get a definitive answer from that line of thought is that Hamilton is all over the place in that region. Ft Hamilton Parkway is long, Ft Hamilton the neighborhood is large, and there are signs all up and down the belt parkway for various ft Hamilton exits. Plus, it’s nearly impossible from my research to figure out where exactly exit signs were in 1980. You also have the high school and the fort with multiple signs around them.
My unsolicited advice: If you really want to blow this (or any) theory wide open, spend some time solving the three dot panels which no one seems to have successfully done. They take up a TON of real estate and must be important. I’ll help you with this when I get back to town this weekend. I’m preparing some tedious visuals that I’m hoping will spur some ideas on these panels.
To start, JJP said something about the relationship of the Large dots to Small dots being important to which Byron said “oooo that’s hard” [not SIC]

GoldenMartyr

Some of the dots should disappear if the printing was accurate. Count the remaining dots for coordinates.

Yes to this idea. Use your 3D glasses. Look at the red window pane with blue lens and blue pane with red lens.

Since you guys loved my USS Maine and Roosevelt Island idea so much here’s some more!
Red window pane: Smallpox Hospital
Strecker Memorial Laboratory
https://tinyurl.com/y2hou22c

phrabbott

To start, JJP said something about the relationship of the Large dots to Small dots being important to which Byron said “oooo that’s hard” [not SIC]

Unknown

Unknown:
They were talking to Palencar, they had asked him questions, and they said, “ask him about those little bubbles, ask him about those panels, it’s driving me insane.” He was of course very tight-lipped. Josh was talking back and forth with me at the time, and he said that Palencar did say that there was something about those panels that had to do with size ratio, of those circles within them, and that when he created them he remembered saying something to Byron like, “Look at this,” and Byron saying “Oh, John, that’s really hard.”
But he was very proud of the fact that there was something about the puzzle within the puzzle that had to do with the size ratio of those circles. Now, you guys are way smarter than me, I still haven’t been able to figure out what that means, but clearly something was going on there that is either a map of some sort, an overhead of some sort, whether is spells out something, I haven’t been able to figure it out.

From the NY podcast:

GoldenMartyr

How many coordinates are visible in image 12?

I’m using these 4. Based on more traditional methods. My opinion only. Your mileage may vary.

I have agreed with 74 and 41 for years. The others are very questionable, imo.

GM already recognized the bottom left square as UN.
74/41 is all you need really.

GoldenMartyr

I have agreed with 74 and 41 for years. The others are very questionable, imo.

Your opinion is welcome, as is anyone’s.
I agree that the 40 is what I would say is ‘interpretive.” And so by definition open to questioning, as you have.
I would push back a bit and disagree on the 75. If you forgive my quite horrible tracing and look at the original image, the 75 is fairly strong. (For the 7 focus on the lighter tone, while for the 5 focus on the delineation between light tone and dark tone in the wave). My opinion only.
But I will further ask the following questions to the forum in general.
Does anyone else see a 75 there?
And for those that do, in applying certain theories about the puzzles (which, granted are not for certain) – what would be the potentially huge relevance of the 75?
(I’m looking at you SWB guys)…..

Kang

Your opinion is welcome, as is anyone’s.
I agree that the 40 is what I would say is ‘interpretive.” And so by definition open to questioning, as you have.
I would push back a bit and disagree on the 75. If you forgive my quite horrible tracing and look at the original image, the 75 is fairly strong. (For the 7 focus on the lighter tone, while for the 5 focus on the delineation between light tone and dark tone in the wave). My opinion only.
But I will further ask the following questions to the forum in general.
Does anyone else see a 75 there?
And for those that do, in applying certain theories about the puzzles (which, granted are not for certain) – what would be the potentially huge relevance of the 75?
(I’m looking at you SWB guys)…..

Philly – I would love it if one was there.

OK…… check this out…
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The Montauk Club:  Ste A, 25 8th Ave, Brooklyn, NY‎ – (718) 638-0800‎
(just off the northern edge of Prospect Park to to me could = “Nearby”)
The Montauk Club is a slice of Victoriana that would be pretentious if it weren’t so enjoyable and fun to view when walking past. The club itself was established in 1889 as a “gentleman’s social club”; a plaque at the front entrance describes its (completed in) 891 building at 8th Avenue and Lincoln Place as modeled by architect Francis Kimball after the Ca’ d’Oro in Venice. There is a lengthy frieze above the third floor
depicting the “exploits of the Montauk Indians”,
as the plaque puts it,
in terra cotta.
Here’s a pic of the building so you can’t miss it…

slap here is an interactive map of prospect park brooklyn
im not sure where you see this though, increase zoom more options
http://www.prospectpark.org/visit/interactive_map
was this v-10 ?
been to long

Next line…
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols.
Isaac Asimov
Isaac Asimov was born in Petrovichi in Smolensk Oblast, RSFSR (now Russia)   His family emigrated to the United States when he was three years old.
Growing up in Brooklyn, New York, Asimov taught himself to read at the age of five, and remained fluent in Yiddish as well as English. His parents owned a succession of candy stores,
(the last was at 174 Windsor Place, between Fuller Place and 10th Avenue… very close to the park )
and everyone in the family was expected to work in them.
Most of his popularized science books explain scientific concepts in a historical way, going as far back as possible to a time when the science in question was at its simplest stage. He often provides nationalities, birth dates, and death dates for the scientists he mentions, as well as
etymologies and pronunciation guides for technical terms
. Examples include his Guide to Science, the
three volume set Understanding Physics
, Asimov’s Chronology of Science and Discovery, as well as numerous works on astronomy, mathematics, the Bible, William Shakespeare’s works and, of course, chemistry subjects.
Understanding Physics
is a non-fiction book written by Isaac Asimov, originally published in 1966. It is considered to be a reader-friendly informational guide regarding the fields of physics and chemistry, written for lay people. It is one of several science guides by Asimov.
The book is divided into three volumes
, each of which have also been published separately as books. They are:
• Motion, Sound, and Heat
• Light, Magnetism, and Electricity
• The Electron, Proton, and Neutron
A good hike south of the park is a school named after him           PS 099 Isaac Asimov   1120 East  10 Street   Brooklyn, NY 11230
Not sure of relevant dates regarding the school or it’s name.
Here are the various addresses around Brooklyn he lived or worked in his father’s candy stores…
–   When the Asimov family came to the United States in 1923, they moved into their first apartment at 425 Van Siclen Avenue, in the East New York section of Brooklyn.
–   In the summer of 1925 they moved one block away to an apartment at 434 Miller Avenue.
–   They moved half a mile eastward in December 1928 to another apartment at 651 Essex Street, above the second candy store bought by his father.
–   In early 1933, they moved to an apartment on Church Avenue,
–   and after a brief stay there they moved to an apartment above yet another family candy store, at 1312 Decatur Street, in the Ridgewood section of Brooklyn.
–   In December of 1936, Asimov’s father sold his third candy store and bought his fourth, at 174 Windsor Place, (between Fuller Place and 10th Avenue), and the family moved to a house across the street.
–   After completing military service and his work as a chemist with the government during WW 2, he returned to the states in May, and after his discharge from the army in July, he and his wife Gertrude moved into a small apartment in Brooklyn on 213 Dean Street in September 1946.
–   In September of 1947 they moved to the downstairs apartment of his parents’ house on Windsor Place. He later lived in Manhattan, Philadelphia, and Boston.
Isaac Asimov could also be our connection to the  “Russian” Orthodox Church in the picture.

In rhapsodic man’s soil …
Prospect Park’s Concert Grove possesses a rich collection of historic bronze sculptures. Three were donated by United German Singers of Brooklyn as trophies won in the national Saengerfest choral competitions. These works include Henry Baerer’s bust Ludwig von Beethoven (1894), Augustus Mueller’s Wolfgang Amadeus Mozart (1897) and Chester Beach’s Karl Maria Von Weber (1909).

cw, you ole pirate , good to cya
yes, we have been using verse 10 with this image because of “the slender path”, being the Narrows bridge.
something about the shape of the park reminds me of the shape of the lady
haven’t had much time to research lately, have to use my old notes, going to try to get back into the hunt.
kato, you in new york?
boogieman, you still with us?
ck, you doing okay now? no hunts this summer?
forest_blight?
missed all u guys!
seems like i remember looking at this park b4 because of something in the book about “siegfried’s line of defense”, not sure if i’m recalling it right, thinking maybe “lions” or “line of defense, and i think the long meadow was the “line of defense”, not sure.  and i remember that i felt the book was just giving hints of everything that would be in the certain parks.  seems there was something about “back behind the president” or the “president’s back”, something like that…….and something about the “laffer curve”, which something i can’t quite recall when i was researching before, that there was a road or something called “laffer”.  can’t remember, got to go back and find all that stuff.

Durian

I don’t understand the tone? You don’t like my ideas…fantastic. Ignore them or rebut them. As far as I can tell, you’ve expressed your primary objection to my thoughts is that the book has a rule against burying a casque on private property. It doesn’t. Not unless you’re somehow related to the publisher…
I’m happy to debate ideas. Some are good, some are bad. Hopefully someday the back and forth of thoughts will lead somebody or some group to a casque. But I don’t understand the tone? I haven’t been knocking your thoughts. I think much of the energy around Brooklyn has plenty of merit. The discussion over the past couple of weeks has been pretty interesting. I’m simply proposing an alternate hypothesis.

I am debating it by showing you exactly how arbitrary your theory is!
Based on the game that is The Secret, my devil theory has just as much merit as yours does. More so, it doesn’t require you to believe you have to dig up the lawn of a church. All I had to do to make my theory was ignore the story in the book, all clues, and completely ignore any of the two puzzles that have been solved and any method used to solve them. After that, all I had to do was find one (yes, just one) central figure and find anything I can connect to that person. And if something doesn’t connect (yep, you guessed it!) smash it in to the theory until it fits. I felt this was what BP had intended me to do.
So I asked myself: self, if you are the devil, where would you feel most comfortable and have suitable shelter from the head hunting albatross in the area? And BOOM, found Fire Island! Perfect, undeniable match! You guys would love it there!

Durian

I don’t understand the tone? You don’t like my ideas…fantastic. Ignore them or rebut them. As far as I can tell, you’ve expressed your primary objection to my thoughts is that the book has a rule against burying a casque on private property. It doesn’t. Not unless you’re somehow related to the publisher…
I’m happy to debate ideas. Some are good, some are bad. Hopefully someday the back and forth of thoughts will lead somebody or some group to a casque. But I don’t understand the tone? I haven’t been knocking your thoughts. I think much of the energy around Brooklyn has plenty of merit. The discussion over the past couple of weeks has been pretty interesting. I’m simply proposing an alternate hypothesis.

I am debating it by showing you exactly how arbitrary your theory is!
Based on the game that is The Secret, my devil theory has just as much merit as yours does. More so, it doesn’t require you to believe you have to dig up the lawn of a church. All I had to do to make my theory was ignore the story in the book, all clues, and completely ignore any of the two puzzles that have been solved and any method used to solve them. After that, all I had to do was find one (yes, just one)
central
figure and find anything I can connect to that person. And if something doesn’t connect (yep, you guessed it!) smash it in to the theory until it fits. I felt this was what BP had intended me to do.
So I asked myself: self, if you are the devil, where would you feel most comfortable and have suitable shelter from the head hunting albatross in the area? And BOOM, found Fire Island! Perfect, undeniable match! You guys would love it there!

Durian

Here’s another crazy idea. What if this is just a wall?

I’d love if someone would discuss the red outline. That’s a pretty bold choice and definitely deliberate and people seem to just talk about the shape which is very inconclusive. While I think it could represent the brick surrounded Ellis Island Dock, that would make 3 references to undiggable locations that are right next to eachother. Odd.
Re: Staten Island
I assume you’ve been there? My girlfriend and I rushed down there as our first excited-that-this-may-be-the-spot foray a while back after finding the gray clock on the burrough hall, equating much of the image to the ferry ride, and, of course, getting excited about Barrett Triangle. (A main part of our theory was a goat relief on the St George Theater… ya… in person that didn’t work out as well…)
We even walked out by your church (with no consideration that it could be the spot… it was just on the way to the coastal park and we had been checking something else more inland that escapes me now.)
Purely subjective obviously, but the entire walk just didn’t seem like an exciting path. None of the locations hearkened to “i would bury something here.” We checked many triangle parks to get a vibe and also, as mentioned, tried to hit the northern coastal areas which weren’t as easily accessible as they appear and were very overgrown. Cleveland and Chicago were chock full of history, sculpture and generally nice walks. That’s why we abandoned the idea. Just my two cents.
Re: Fire Island
I’ve always wanted to go, but then I’d be seen as more of a hipster than I already am.

Durian

Here’s another crazy idea. What if this is just a wall?

I’d love if someone would discuss the red outline. That’s a pretty bold choice and definitely deliberate and people seem to just talk about the shape which is very inconclusive. While I think it could represent the brick surrounded Ellis Island Dock, that would make 3 references to undiggable locations that are right next to eachother. Odd.
Re: Staten Island
I assume you’ve been there? My girlfriend and I rushed down there as our first excited-that-this-may-be-the-spot foray a while back after finding the gray clock on the burrough hall, equating much of the image to the ferry ride, and, of course, getting excited about Barrett Triangle. (A main part of our theory was a goat relief on the St George Theater… ya… in person that didn’t work out as well…)
We even walked out by your church (with no consideration that it could be the spot… it was just on the way to the coastal
park
and we had been checking something else more inland that escapes me now.)
Purely subjective obviously, but the entire walk just didn’t seem like an exciting path. None of the locations hearkened to “i would bury something here.” We checked many triangle parks to get a vibe and also, as mentioned, tried to hit the northern coastal areas which weren’t as easily accessible as they appear and were very overgrown. Cleveland and Chicago were chock full of history, sculpture and generally nice walks. That’s why we abandoned the idea. Just my two cents.
Re: Fire Island
I’ve always wanted to go, but then I’d be seen as more of a hipster than I already am.

Durian

Why is the cathedral blue? And why three domes? Most Russian cathedrals appear to have more than three domes…

Symbols of Russia and JJP’s design and color choices – Part I
A light blue color has been part of symbols of Russia since Peter the Great ‘borrowed’ the colors of the Dutch flag. That color also appears on other important symbols of Russia. One example below.
http://www.worldflags101.com/r/russia-flag.aspx
https://countrydigest.org/russian-flag/
Also – As discussed previously, most seem to agree that the domes icon is very odd in that VERY few Russian churches have only 3 domes. And that it may be a simplified depiction of St Basil’s in Moscow – where some domes are merged in silhouette so that it appears there are only 3.
Why did JJP make the choices he did?
Below is a portion of the Romanov coat of arms. The ribbon is nearly the exact color blue. And there are three crowns. (Varying stories for the reason, but commonly thought as representing the 3 kingdoms of the Russian Empire).
It certainly doesn’t “look” like the domes icon. But there are two important elements here that are used in the dome. That color blue. And 3 dome-y shaped things with little baubles on top and crosses. Hmmm. Sounds familiar.
So if the domes/church is NOT a real location we are supposed to find but a general symbol of Russia – perhaps it’s design and color is inspired by other important symbols of Russia??

Durian

Here’s another crazy idea. What if this is just a wall?
There’s obviously the famous Wall Street… But there’s also a Wall Street you pass between Barrett Triangle and St. Peter’s Church. It’s one block before you reach Hamilton St.

The use of the rectangle is frustrating at a minimum. It could be a door, a building, the roadway hole in the tower of a suspension bridge, a diving board, a tunnel, a box of cereal….anything.

Durian. No tone. Just some honest questions for you.
Think about this before you answer. Do you
honestly
think that given what we know about Byron Preiss personally – and the puzzle in general – that Byron would have buried it on the property of a church? By all accounts he was a religious man. And by necessity knowing that someone might not dig a single hole and hit the jackpot – that he would set up a puzzle where people might be digging multiple holes all over a church in and effort to find it?
Some considerations before you answer.
Neither of the two finds were on church property or an especially important area. They were out of the way places.
If things had gone as he probably planned with the hunt – he’d have Bantam to answer to on this. How would they like it if one was found at a church?
Of the 10 remaining – none are popularly thought to be on church property. The top theories for each all have it in a park – yes, one is a privately owned park. Most in out of they way places.
You may have heard about the troubles with digging that park owner has had. Or about what happened at Ft Raleigh during the gov’t shutdown.
Do you really think he buried it at a church? Would any spot
not specifically prohibited in the book
be fair game?
A graveyard? The Washington memorial? Gettysburg battlefield? Think about that.
Pursue the puzzle as you like. But at some point you have to draw a line somewhere. A church is on the other side of that line – I speak for myself only.

Durian. No tone. Just some honest questions for you.
Think about this before you answer. Do you
honestly
think that given what we know about Byron Preiss personally – and the puzzle in general – that Byron would have buried it on the property of a church? By all accounts he was a religious man. And by necessity knowing that someone might not dig a single hole and hit the jackpot – that he would set up a puzzle where people might be digging multiple holes all over a church in and effort to find it?
Some considerations before you answer.
Neither of the two finds were on church property or an especially important area. They were out of the way places.
If things had gone as he probably planned with the hunt – he’d have Bantam to answer to on this. How would they like it if one was found at a church?
Of the 10 remaining – none are popularly thought to be on church property. The top theories for each all have it in a
park
– yes, one is a privately owned
park
. Most in out of they way places.
You may have heard about the troubles with digging that
park
owner has had. Or about what happened at Ft Raleigh during the gov’t shutdown.
Do you really think he buried it at a church? Would any spot
not specifically prohibited in the book
be fair game?
A graveyard? The Washington memorial? Gettysburg battlefield? Think about that.
Pursue the puzzle as you like. But at some point you have to draw a line somewhere. A church is on the other side of that line – I speak for myself only.

Well, I suppose the most accepted answer to the rectangle is Ellis Island dock. Which make sense with all the other possible matches in that small cluster of islands. Like that other guy said, why are so many possible image matches in this area?

Durian

The Romanov coat of arms is really intriguing, with the same blue color and the tri-pattern. Do you have any thoughts on how the Romanov family might be a clue for something? Or point in a particular direction?

More on that topic coming in Part II. Probably tomorrow.

Kang

Durian. No tone. Just some honest questions for you.
Think about this before you answer. Do you
honestly
think that given what we know about Byron Preiss personally – and the puzzle in general – that Byron would have buried it on the property of a church? By all accounts he was a religious man. And by necessity knowing that someone might not dig a single hole and hit the jackpot – that he would set up a puzzle where people might be digging multiple holes all over a church in and effort to find it?
Some considerations before you answer.
Neither of the two finds were on church property or an especially important area. They were out of the way places.
If things had gone as he probably planned with the hunt – he’d have Bantam to answer to on this. How would they like it if one was found at a church?
Of the 10 remaining – none are popularly thought to be on church property. The top theories for each all have it in a park – yes, one is a privately owned park. Most in out of they way places.
You may have heard about the troubles with digging that park owner has had. Or about what happened at Ft Raleigh during the gov’t shutdown.
Do you really think he buried it at a church? Would any spot
not specifically prohibited in the book
be fair game?
A graveyard? The Washington memorial? Gettysburg battlefield? Think about that.
Pursue the puzzle as you like. But at some point you have to draw a line somewhere. A church is on the other side of that line – I speak for myself only.

Second that point. I am just not as eloquent

Kang

Durian. No tone. Just some honest questions for you.
Think about this before you answer. Do you
honestly
think that given what we know about Byron Preiss personally – and the puzzle in general – that Byron would have buried it on the property of a church? By all accounts he was a religious man. And by necessity knowing that someone might not dig a single hole and hit the jackpot – that he would set up a puzzle where people might be digging multiple holes all over a church in and effort to find it?
Some considerations before you answer.
Neither of the two finds were on church property or an especially important area. They were out of the way places.
If things had gone as he probably planned with the hunt – he’d have Bantam to answer to on this. How would they like it if one was found at a church?
Of the 10 remaining – none are popularly thought to be on church property. The top theories for each all have it in a
park
– yes, one is a privately owned
park
. Most in out of they way places.
You may have heard about the troubles with digging that
park
owner has had. Or about what happened at Ft Raleigh during the gov’t shutdown.
Do you really think he buried it at a church? Would any spot
not specifically prohibited in the book
be fair game?
A graveyard? The Washington memorial? Gettysburg battlefield? Think about that.
Pursue the puzzle as you like. But at some point you have to draw a line somewhere. A church is on the other side of that line – I speak for myself only.

Second that point. I am just not as eloquent

Durian

…but now that I think about it, I’m going to drop it. I don’t want anybody messing around with the church.

Too late… NYCNative is already there. He’s a huge fan of this theory.

phrabbott

Too late… NYCNative is already there. He’s a huge fan of this theory.

It just makes so much sense! Praise be!

No tone intended here, but has it occurred just how ridiculous all of this back and forth really sounds?
People are arguing about Burroughs, parks, streets, islands, churches, etc. If everyone actually agreed on a single location, how would you chose the correct spot to dig? From the information that I have gathered, and assuming to be correct, a casque measures roughly 5”x5” square and about 8” tall. That is a ridiculously small area to pinpoint and dig by hand. Has it occurred to people that we are missing the big picture?
A true solution doesn’t consist of a neat little pdf file with pictures of landmarks and literary quotes that someone has force fit into a path that leads to a clearly premeditated location. Even then, assuming the solved location is correct, most of those locations never clearly pinpoint a clear spot to dig. It’s always some vaguely described tree or light post or lion statue.
The Chicago and Cleveland scavenger hunt doesn’t seem to work, the finding of image matches and verse interpretations isn’t working very well either. Any chance we are so focused on the little details that we are blinded by the real solution staring us in the face? It might be time for us all to zoom out a little and get another look at what we are missing.

erexere

When people talk about the sash of the robe or the sash of the window, are they at all interested in the possibility that it helps derive the familiar Russian name of Sasha or Alexander?

Of course not silly boy!
It is clear as day that this puzzle is all about PETER!
Joking of course!
While I agree, this puzzle is going to be different as far as it’s difficulty, everything I have read for the past few days sounds way off base and doesn’t sound like the style of puzzle that BP and JJP are a part of. It reads more like trying to make a theory fit, which ever way possible, compared to trying to figure out the image or verse.
I will give props for thinking outside the box and being original, but that is not getting anyone any closer to a solve.

Durian

This may well have been noticed by searchers now and/or in the past, but in case not, there appears to be a compass in the puzzle:

I don’t know if subway lines have changed over last 4 decades but W could be the W metro line towards East or W to E line. As long as it gets to Roosevelt Island!
Local NYCs please chime in.
Also
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=754&start=550

Also, if you notice, the woman in image 12 has hands with fingers. You know who else has hands? The Devil! And he uses it to hold on to things!
I think trying to figure out why JJP loves the devil is important.

An example….
http://www.catholiccompany.com/product_ … ?ID=10447#

I just got sucked into this hunt.  The first thing I thought I saw when I looked at Image 12 was a whale in the water.  It starts on the left side and is facing the right.  I haven’t seen it mentioned anywhere yet.  Am I seeing things?

AP once pointed out the Hamilton Fish Center as an Indies Native sign. The windows have a similar pattern of divisions to the image. That could even be a “weird rectangular blob” motif in the brickwork.
Maybe it would be worth a map / recap of NY Russian Orthodox churches in case it’s a guide to the general area. Love the colour of this one in Queens.
http://notnewyork.net/2011/08/16/russia … in-queens/

A possible solution to the latitude problem in image 12 can be hypothesized as follows:  The “74” in the water below the figure may be indicating the longitude of New York City, but the degree of latitude( number) within the image has thus far been elusive.  The longitude of New York City is 74.006W, and the latitude is 40.714N.  No discernable “40” or “41” has been observed within the image.
www.ny.com/histfacts/geography.html
I believe the solution to the latitude problem can be found in the square clock to the left of the figure’s head.
If you add the Roman Numerals (12+3+6+9=30) and then add the time on the clock (11:00) or 11, the sum is “41”, or the equivalent latitude of New York City.  If my hypothesis is correct, then this would establish an irrefutable link between image 12 and New York City.
What a fiendishly clever way to hide the latitude number in plain sight!  Byron Preiss was a genius!
My other thought on this subject is that the clock in the square is a rebus for “Times Square”

I guess there is a vague resemblance to the seahawk…  I always loved this:
but the more I look at it, the less it looks like it.  I think there is a VERY strong resemblance but…I am beginning to think we need to find the EXACT replica…

Can’t come to terms with Prospect Park NOT being the place after someone found it in the dress. ‘B’elmont Island is directly north of Concert Grove to the inch. Gazing north you’re looking towards Belmont. Nothing says you have to actually see the isle. Just look north and it’s in that direction. Like an x marks the spot.

Can’t come to terms with Prospect
Park
NOT being the place after someone found it in the dress. ‘B’elmont Island is directly north of Concert Grove to the inch. Gazing north you’re looking towards Belmont. Nothing says you have to actually see the isle. Just look north and it’s in that direction. Like an x marks the spot.

Respectfully, finding Prospect Park in the dress/robes was a total stretch at best IMHO. As sure as I was that the casque was buried in the Greek Cultural Garden in Cleveland is as sure that I am it is NOT buried in Prospect Park. Look North to Belmont Island may seem to fit the clue, but it is WAY to obscure, random and non-specific when compared to the clues and methodology found in both the Cleveland and Chicago images/verses.
Posted some more info on our search in NY under Verse 10, for anyone interested.

Respectfully, finding Prospect
Park
in the dress/robes was a total stretch at best IMHO. As sure as I was that the casque was buried in the Greek Cultural Garden in Cleveland is as sure that I am it is NOT buried in Prospect
Park
. Look North to Belmont Island may seem to fit the clue, but it is WAY to obscure, random and non-specific when compared to the clues and methodology found in both the Cleveland and Chicago images/verses.
Posted some more info on our search in NY under Verse 10, for anyone interested.

nice ideas Melanie….nothing on these boards is too wacky (take it from the wacky king)
To first disagree with Cat (gosh, is this a first lol  😉 ) I think the #74 is quite obvious in the waves.  Now….
The face is of course that of Lady Liberty but your Liberty Bridge find is quite intriguing.  That darn eagle though.  It seems to be a perfect match for the Chrysler gargoyle… unless, is there something “Chrysler” nearby in Pitt?
I have always believed V10 to be leading us to Pitt, especially with the Isle of B = Brunot Island.  My only problem was I had it matched w/ P4 since the beginning….low and behold, Sir Egg had to go and ruin that one for me
.  But, P4 brings us right back to your points….From early on, I think I would be correct in assuming, everyone here was convinced that P4 was PA (gem in Keystone-state), most leaning towards Philly because of the Lbell (liberty bell) & myself secretly leaning towards Pitt w/ V10.  Now that someone else has found themselves in Pitt with this V, maybe we should do a little more digging and find a P (if not P12..but also could be now) for this casque.
Keep the ideas flowing Melanie…no idea is a dumb one (except for some of mine lol )

In regard to the color blindness test/color pebbles possible link:
There seem to be two original tests that are still most often used.  The Ishihara test consists of the familiar “hidden” numbers in a field of colored spots.  There are two series of standard plates, 24 and 38 series editions, but eight plates are generally used in diagnosis.
The AO-HRR uses the same technique, but most often with a combination of shapes and numbers.  I do not know which was first developed (Ishihara’s was originally done with Japanese characters, then later adapted with Arabic numerals).
While these panels may be suggesting numbers based on some standard, the AO-HRR was developed by three researchers: Hardy, Rand, and Rittler.
It is a longshot, but there could be three close streets or a monument bearing some variation of these names near the treasure site.

I’ve become rather reliant on finding the latitude/longitude numbers in the image to use as confirmers.  With this image, I have not seen anything that is convincingly a deliberately inserted number.  As a skeptic, I believe you can turn almost any random brushstroke into a number if you are looking for something specific.  Ideally, you see a number jump out and THEN find out what city might correspond to it.
(just posting to keep in touch, not contributing anything new this week.)

Melanie!
Im with you I think this is too obvious to be NY
Your pittsburg links are as strong as any I have read/seen for NY. just remember there is no way of confirming til you actually find a casque…

I know!  Too bad I’m in California…I grew up in Pgh, but haven’t been there in years.
Any Pittsburghers on the board who could go exploring?

What if this is Niagara Falls/Goat Island? The grey giant would be the falls itself. The waves at the bottom of the picture don’t make me think of a harbor, water yes, harbor no.
“Indies Native” would really be native indians-which we know for sure they were on the island and there is even a native indian statue in the state park.
The woman’s dress is the shape of Goat Island and there is a set of 3 island next to Goat Island called the 3 Sister Island, which could be represented as the three jewels in the picture. They aren’t in the same place on the map but they are all different sizes, just like the picture.
The summer whirring sound would be the falls because in the winter it is less loud because sometimes some of it freezes-not all of it though (except once).
The bird (eagle) could mean look towards the USA side at the state park.
The Isle of B could be Bird Island.
That’s all I got so far.

turtle123456

THIS SHOULD HELP, IT IS A MIRROR IMAGE OF THE GOW

Sorry, I still dont see it, out side of the they both have a vaguely battery park shaped end.
I dont see the corresponding shapes around houston street or 34th street
and the the water drops or jewels dont correspond to any island location I know of  at all.
In the other pictures I have seen the maps line up perfectly, not vaguely.
But thats great news about BP not ruling out manhatten, I knew something like that had come out ,but I was busy concentrating on SF
Washington Square park looks very promising,
but I would go fast They have published a new plan for the park and it looks like the corners are all going to get made over.

Is it just me, or does the panes of glass behind the bird (minus the tail feathers) look kinda like the State of Idaho.
The building outline just below that looks russian in origin and there is a city in Northern Idaho named Moscow (no foolin)
It is right next to the Clearwater Mountains (pretty water below), and slightly north is a city called Spirit Lake (a floating woman)
I just thought I’d throw my  2 cents in..

Where are the numbers and what are they?  I’m not doubting you; I just can’t see them.
–Johann

Did Preiss directly say that it wasn’t in Central Park?

Yes. Years ago when asked, he definitively wrote in an email reply that there was no casque buried in Central Park.

Yes. Years ago when asked, he definitively wrote in an email reply that there was no casque buried in
Central
Park
.

nice pictures. i see the bell in the image, I also see a dog or some sort of animal within the clouds.

Not sure if this has been posted before.
St. Paul the Apostle Church window, near Columbus Circle, NYC

For what it is worth, some random thoughts
of Stratford Connecticutt:
Home of Igor Sikorsky (A wingless bird ascended, born of ancient
dreams of flight)
Established mid 17th century by Russian imigrants
Has a domed Russian Othrodox Church (photo attached)
Has a lighthouse
Has many many parks and historical monuments
Is spack dab on the coast
Has a church named: St Mary’s of the Sea
Has a Barnum Museum (with a eagle like bird on its roof)
Just a place with many possibiliites

What if she is a “Maid of the mist”
That would put us at Niagara Falls, right? Now I’m not from the US so I may have this wrong but isn’t Niagara Falls in New York State?
More of my brainstorming for ya!
Adrian

A Cake is not made with flour alone.
Niagra Falls is between NY and Canada.
I have found various examples in this image,
but no location with everything in proper
perspective.
With the black hair of the woman, I am not
looking fr her to be a statue but a painting.
She looks like a color-form stuck atop the rest
of the image.  Also, with the blue light behind her,
I am thinking she is a part of a larger whole.
I have not found any logs or lats in here to key off of.
The bird looks to me like a relief of a building or a monument.
Also, with the web feet, I see him as a sea eagle or an osprey –
commonly named a SeaHawk.
Other notables…. Red Cobble Stones…. Aqua Sea Glass….
White Sands….

slappybuns

boogieman, i really really feel, the mosaics are the bus stops, (train stops, subways)

It’s an interesting theory.  Be sure to use the color system in use at the time.  I’ve found one from 1978 on that site
http://www.nycsubway.org/perl/caption.p … system.gif
“The 1978 map also shows each line in its own color. Major changes: elimination of the K train and the elimination of the 5, 6 and SS service from South Ferry; C and E terminal switch. Hand drawn by Michael Calcagno.”
link and quote come from
http://www.nycsubway.org/maps/historical.html

fox

When are you going on your dig?  I wish you the very best of luck and will say my prayers to the Treasure Gods for you.  Don’t forget my simple request if you do find the darn thing.

One bag of Rhapsodic man’s soil for you sir.

boogieman

I will look for these things for you….After I dig on the west side of the flagpost.

When are you going on your dig?  I wish you the very best of luck and will say my prayers to the Treasure Gods for you.  Don’t forget my simple request if you do find the darn thing.

I am confused about the rumor that BP replied to an e-mail saying that no casque was buried in central park. I believe the official story is that it was forwarded to fox by another Q4T member, yet there is evidence saying that it was a direct email to fox from BP. Perhaps I missed something in this story, so can anyone clarify?

I am confused about the rumor that BP replied to an e-mail saying that no casque was buried in
central
park
. I believe the official story is that it was forwarded to fox by another Q4T member, yet there is evidence saying that it was a direct email to fox from BP. Perhaps I missed something in this story, so can anyone clarify?