…once part of Crescent Athletic club. Great info Choice. Thank you!
….One other observation. It’s a vague panel and probably mentioned already but our gray rectangle has a very similar appearance to the front ground of Fort Hamilton HS as well. Dimensions aren’t exact, but I could see how JJP possibly drew influence of such a design if a photograph was taken across the street next to the “v.”

davinci4

…once part of Crescent Athletic club. Great info Choice. Thank you!
….One other observation. It’s a vague panel and probably mentioned already but our gray rectangle has a very similar appearance to the front ground of Fort Hamilton HS as well. Dimensions aren’t exact, but I could see how JJP possibly drew influence of such a design if a photograph was taken across the street next to the “v.”

Still need to find when the parks name changed and what it was before. Lets hope it is a good one…if we can find that info anywhere.
Good work Davinci!!

davinci4

Based on the historic aerials, it looks like there was paved surface with ?shuffleboard courts in the area that is now a baseball field. Same image in 1980, 1987. 1994 is where baseball field shows up. …
NYC, phrabbot. I know the location in front of the HS has been mentioned in past but I am not aware anyone has ever given it serious consideration (other than White Rabbit) or ever explored it in detail. Much of the on ground efforts seemingly have focused in Prospect, Battery and Central Park.

Well the theory of the spot being in front of the H.S is an old one. To think that someone didn’t at least try to dig or probe there is hard to believe. Doesn’t mean anything since nobody has a casque or has published anything else involving that small area.
I still have not been able to find much information about the ballfields. We know it is now named after a little league coach and thanks to Davinci, we know what it was before it was a ballfield. Perhaps it had no name to it. But I will keep digging in. Perhaps more info can be had from an actual trip to the park and asking one of the “natives”.
You are a superstar Davinci! May the Dickens be with you , my friend.

NYCNative

Well the theory of the spot being in front of the H.S is an old one. To think that someone didn’t at least try to dig or probe there is hard to believe. Doesn’t mean anything since nobody has a casque or has published anything else involving that small area.
I still have not been able to find much information about the ballfields. We know it is now named after a little league coach and thanks to Davinci, we know what it was before it was a ballfield. Perhaps it had no name to it. But I will keep digging in. Perhaps more info can be had from an actual trip to the park and asking one of the “natives”.
You are a superstar Davinci! May the Dickens be with you , my friend.

People tried to claim that BP went to Ft. Hamilton HS. If I am correct, he attended Midwood HS adjacent to Brooklyn College. I would be inclined to search that area for potential clues.

Based on the historic aerials, it looks like there was paved surface with ?shuffleboard courts in the area that is now a baseball field. Same image in 1980, 1987. 1994 is where baseball field shows up. …
NYC, phrabbot. I know the location in front of the HS has been mentioned in past but I am not aware anyone has ever given it serious consideration (other than White Rabbit) or ever explored it in detail. Much of the on ground efforts seemingly have focused in Prospect, Battery and Central Park.

gManTexas

People tried to claim that BP went to Ft. Hamilton HS. If I am correct, he attended Midwood HS adjacent to Brooklyn College. I would be inclined to search that area for potential clues.

Yes. I remember that people have claimed that BP went to Hamilton but that is not why we are in that area at all. Midwood has not produced anything worth pursuing, unless I missed several things about that area that can fit as well as it does in Bay Ridge.
i have not seen or read anything that suggests that he buried it near his H.S., other then the false rumor and the theory that he is the rhapsodic man (which we know now can not be true).

NYCNative

Yes. I remember that people have claimed that BP went to Hamilton but that is not why we are in that area at all. Midwood has not produced anything worth pursuing, unless I missed several things about that area that can fit as well as it does in Bay Ridge.
i have not seen or read anything that suggests that he buried it near his H.S., other then the false rumor and the theory that he is the rhapsodic man (which we know now can not be true).

I’m not suggesting that it is buried near Midwood. Just that if that was his stomping grounds, there may be some nuanced clues around there.

There is a Byron Preiss on the alumni list in the 1968. Who knows if this is THE Byron Preiss.
List is sorted by last name:
http://midwoodhighschool.net/brooklyn-n … ist-p.html
Similar list for Ft. Hamilton! 68. Maybe he went to both!
http://forthamiltonhighschool.net/alumni-list-p.html
https://www.allhighschools.com/school/f … ool/741010

NYCNative

Well the theory of the spot being in front of the H.S is an old one. To think that someone didn’t at least try to dig or probe there is hard to believe. Doesn’t mean anything since nobody has a casque or has published anything else involving that small area.
I still have not been able to find much information about the ballfields. We know it is now named after a little league coach and thanks to Davinci, we know what it was before it was a ballfield. Perhaps it had no name to it. But I will keep digging in. Perhaps more info can be had from an actual trip to the park and asking one of the “natives”.
You are a superstar Davinci! May the Dickens be with you , my friend.

Thank you!
…sorry. Just getting caught up now about where Preiss went to HS conversation. He went to Midwood, there is a scanned copy of his yearbook online (one of the other threads has a link, let me see if I can find it).
I am actually glad this was brought up. I was looking into past threads about Fort Hamilton HS. One major reason they were sidetracked was regarding the false information that he attended it. I mention it because I don’t want the group going going down this rabbit hole again. Once it was mentioned that he attended there, and then proven he didn’t, people seemed to lose focus and that sight never seemed to get full consideration.
We have a complete solve now to the verses and some very promising image confirmers that support it. By far the strongest NY solution I have read to date. This solution also has no foundation in where he attended high school. It’s completely built from careful consideration of each line.
NYC. I will do some more research regarding that part of the park in front of Fort Hamilton HS. I am also reading up on the renovation project as well, but preliminary stuff looks promising. I don’t think that area 22 steps east of the v was excavated, rather touched up a little (replanted, weeds removed). It looks like it was largely undisturbed.

Choice

Are those steps coming down from old glory pedestrian bridge? The curved ones on each side, how many steps (if steps)? 18 + 1?
https://tinyurl.com/y4ef7ol4

The steps from the pedestrian bridge actually go up to Old Glory. I’ve been there many times, but I’m not sure how many steps there are.
Love this South Brooklyn thread. This is where I think the casque is buried as well. Great work here.

Cool leighanny, so it’s a high vantage point to look north or south (down) from.
up north down south back east out west

Choice

Cool leighanny, so it’s a high vantage point to look north or south (down) from.

Yes. When you cross the ped bridge and reach the bottom of Old Glory, you’d be able to see the SOL (it would be very small and hard to make out, but the view would have been unobstructed) to the north from there, except for a tree which I’m fairly certain wasn’t there in the early 80s. If you take the steps up to the top of Old Glory, even more so. My best guess for this NY casque is at the top of Old Glory. I think I posted my theory somewhere here a while back.

davinci4

Hi All. Just getting caught up here.
Thanks for taking and posting the photos of Oliver St. Rules out that location in my opinion. Very similar to JPJ: although some nice confirmers here and there, Oliver street doesn’t really have anything on the ground going for it.
The Fort Hamilton HS “v” looks very promising indeed. The photo you posted at the middle of the v, lines up almost perfectly with the clock and 22 steps right to the fence.
Looking back, this solve was created organically with no preconceived locations that were “retrofitted” with a solution. It was a step by step process, including/excluding locations based on the clues in the verse. Put it this way either you have identified the correct location or this one of the biggest coincidences in the history of solutions in the Secret. The fact that you are standing right in the middle of the v, lined up with the clock tower and take twenty two steps to the fence makes it hard to argue, especially when you can check off all the boxes in the verse that got you there.
NYC, phrabbot. A few questions: was SOL and bike path visible from the location? Whats the deal with lock, did someone leave it there as marker or did it actually lock something? More subjective, but was your general feel of the location? Preiss traveled all over the country to hide these, was it “Secret worthy” in your opinion?

Only speaking for myself here.
I feel that we got one extra possible clue from going to the site that we have to work on to see if it is helpful or even valid.
As far as the view, there are plenty of shrubs and small trees that will block the view to the SOL from the spot of the dig. Who knows what was there or not there in 1981.
Other then that, we have a great view of the clock, flagpole, rectangle, and a few items not talked about yet. The line up is strong enough to want to go back again and fully explore the area.
Based on the research and brainstorming we have done here and on the discord and other conversation, I really think this is our most promising spot to date. Not only did we complete the verse as best as we can but we also have been able to use the Japanese clues to confirm it all. I do not imagine the lock has anything to do with the solve. It is probably just a random artifact. It is hard to deny the location with everything right there to see. The dig spot has elements that reminds me of Chicago’s final location. The 22 steps seems to have even worked out well. Just more things to make me more interested in the site.

leighanny

Yes. When you cross the ped bridge and reach the bottom of Old Glory, you’d be able to see the SOL (it would be very small and hard to make out, but the view would have been unobstructed) to the north from there, except for a tree which I’m fairly certain wasn’t there in the early 80s. If you take the steps up to the top of Old Glory, even more so. My best guess for this NY casque is at the top of Old Glory. I think I posted my theory somewhere here a while back.

Hi Leighanny,
I wouldn’t rule out Old Glory at all but I for one have a hard time figuring out why it would be there and what would actually lead us there? I know you are very familiar with the area and what is in it. I just do not see how any of them match up to the verse or really to the image (although so much is left unanswered in the image). Just like anything else in this game, if you want to make it fit, you will find connections.

NYCNative

Hi Leighanny,
I wouldn’t rule out Old Glory at all but I for one have a hard time figuring out why it would be there and what would actually lead us there? I know you are very familiar with the area and what is in it. I just do not see how any of them match up to the verse or really to the image (although so much is left unanswered in the image). Just like anything else in this game, if you want to make it fit, you will find connections.

If I’m correct isn’t Old Glory a couple hundred feet away from FHHS and basically in a chain of parks right there? Assuming the casque is in the vicinity, why couldn’t it play into the puzzle?

davinci

The photo you posted at the middle of the v, lines up almost perfectly with the clock and 22 steps right to the fence.

gManTexas

If I’m correct isn’t Old Glory a couple hundred feet away from FHHS and basically in a chain of parks right there? Assuming the casque is in the vicinity, why couldn’t it play into the puzzle?

leighanny

My best guess for this NY casque is at the top of Old Glory.

davinci

A few questions: was SOL and bike path visible from the location? More subjective, but was your general feel of the location? Preiss traveled all over the country to hide these, was it “Secret worthy” in your opinion?

Well, I lined that up. Tried to think like a puzzle person trying to come up with recreatable results. Was it close to the middle of the v? Sure. This is my problem with the 22 steps from the middle of one branch of the v. What’s the middle of the v? If you’re off by 6″ then you’re not going to find it. Should we be bringing our laser distance measures? And if you take 22 steps or more, then you don’t have a definitive end. (here, the fence worked, but elsewhere?) That’s two unknowns. This is why I’m a vehement supporter of “taking 22 East steps or more. And then from the middle of one branch of the v you look down/north.” That’s the only interpretation that gives you a definitive start and end. (start=a path that goes eastward as opposed to another direction. End is the middle of one branch of a v.
“end” is either part of the east path or something the path leads you to
) No, this isn’t overthinking it. The other interpretation just doesn’t put you anywhere of value any way you shake it.
At least a 5 minute walk. You’d need a good reason to head that way. That being said, this particular full “theory path” takes you through Old Glory on the way to the high school.
Statue of liberty isn’t super small in my opinion. It’s pretty clear from all points on shore park (where there aren’t trees). Ellis island is barely visible, however. I would definitively rule out the top of old glory as every planter zone is bricked in right up to the trees and 100% undiggable. Surprised you didn’t count those steps though…
Hard to say. Tons more shrubs and trees than there used to be. What’s secret worthy? A random field next to a railroad behind a statue of Lincoln? If that’s the benchmark, then sure. I have no expectations based on the two actual finds. They were both pretty lame areas as far as ‘views’ or whatnot.

Hi All. Just wanted to jump in here. Goes back to my Oliver Street/JPJ realization. What ground confirmers point to Old Glory? Are there any markers at that site that could be influences in the painting? As far as the verse, I am not seeing a v or wouldn’t understand why he would use the HS as a riddle in the verse if it were buried at Old Glory. To reverse it, if Preiss had buried it at Old Glory wouldn’t he have used the inscription on the monument in the verse or parts of the monument in the painting?
These are great conversations to have, the Secret’s version of the “Socratic Method” if you will. Similar ones have helped us get to this point (please see previous discussions about Oliver Street).
NYC. Forgot to mention the rectangle. It’s actually the lighter gray negative space that surrounds that makes the comparison to the grounds in front of the HS more compelling.
Phrabbot, I see what you are saying about 22 steps from the v, but could you clarify the “two unknowns”?

davinci4

but could you clarify the “two unknowns”?

Did I not?
1. Where do you start? Middle of one branch of the v. What’s that mean? Where do I measure from and to? You have to be extremely exact to find a 6″ casque. And then you have to walk DUE EAST and not veer at all. That’s madness. Paved paths don’t have a line saying “start here.”
2. Where do you end? 22 steps or more? Again, due east or you will surely be more than 6″ off over 22 steps. Ok… We can pretend that something will stop us, but that can’t be relied on.
That’s why the other interpretation takes care of all of these variables. You take an eastward path and you stay on said path for 22 steps or more. (11 real big stairs? 22 stairs? who knows, but either way there’s a definitive answer.) Then from the middle of one branch of a v you look down and north and dig a hole. Maybe the 22 steps or more IS one and the same with the middle of the v. You’re significantly closer than the other interpretation that has so much room for error. (obviously, this interpretation can’t be used in front of FHHS)
All of this is why I decided the middle of the v was where the flagpole lined up with the clock. Otherwise we’re just shooting in the dark and might as well get a bobcat and rip up the entire lawn.

Colors in the dot window panels are A connection to old glory. Note that only red, white and blue and combination of them are present.

Choice

Colors in the dot window panels are A connection to old glory. Note that only red, white and blue and combination of them are present.

Choice. The red bubbles are 85th (or 83th) street!!!
I have an original version of the book and the “83 st.” actually shows up quite well. Best way to look at is to picture the red/orange bubbles as negative space. The smallest bubbles are negative space as well. So the different colors and size ratios help conceal the hidden message. The remaining light pink/light violet color bubbles that make up the “83 st.” show up well. I actually think what you originally thought was a “5” is a large “3”

The only way I see old glory working is that there are these commemorative plaques honoring 3 different navy people who died in either a shipwreck or were POWs. That would fit the mythological figure that the female is based off of (Russian version of a siren who would lure sailors to their death)

Would someone mind posting a complete solve for Old Glory starting with the ‘gray giant’ and going line by line?

leighanny

My best guess for this NY casque is at the top of Old Glory.

Statue of liberty isn’t super small in my opinion. It’s pretty clear from all points on shore park (where there aren’t trees). Ellis island is barely visible, however. I would definitively rule out the top of old glory as every planter zone is bricked in right up to the trees and 100% undiggable. Surprised you didn’t count those steps though…
Yeah, I dislike where I’ve come up with because of the bricks. Even so, it’s where my theory brought me. And I didn’t count the steps because it isn’t part of my theory. I’ll try to find the format I posted my theory in a while back and repost it tomorrow. My NY solution is not simple unfortunately. And I get that people have a problem with that. Still, it’s where I think it is. And I think I have a great image match to Old Glory.

davinci4

Choice. The red bubbles are 85th (or 83th) street!!!
I have an original version of the book and the “83 st.” actually shows up quite well. Best way to look at is to picture the red/orange bubbles as negative space. The smallest bubbles are negative space as well. So the different colors and size ratios help conceal the hidden message. The remaining light pink/light violet color bubbles that make up the “83 st.” show up well. I actually think what you originally thought was a “5” is a large “3”

Yes, that may only be a way-point though.
In case the grassy hole doesn’t pan out here’s a fall-back plan (old Glory hole?) you may want to consider:
The purple panel (far right) shows a giant nine with the prominent circle/dot at the starting point and V to the south.
This lines up with the 9 o’clock on the clock, direction of her gaze and the two islands (Ellis and B.) in the blue dome (bay).
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8015&start=363

NYCNative

That got us to this spot that is not a unique solve at all but how we got to it sure is.

Think we should slow down here. There’s nothing that makes this theory better than many of the other prevailing theories in the area. The only reason we’re at Ft. Hamilton HS is that you wouldn’t believe Charles Dickens could be him of hard word, so I provided an age old, solid interpretation that uses him. And then there happened to be one shore park’s dozen ‘v’ paths in front of it. What makes this process different?
Do I think the theory holds merit? Sure. We dug some holes yesterday, didn’t we?
Not trying to belittle the theory, but we have answered approximately the same amount of image/verse clues as most other theories that are presented (if not less). I still personally can’t tie my “Grey Giant->Whirring” to my “Indies->v” for this one.
It seems the only reason we feel strongly about this particular location is that we’ve answered the elusive “him of Hard word” which is the clue people have given this mythical strength to. Answering that clue does not make for a stronger theory as we still don’t know what that clue does for the puzzle when solved correctly.
Adding the 22 steps from the v was exciting, but I have equally strong 22 steps in all three of my shore park theories.
In sum, I wouldn’t poke holes in others’ theories without hearing them first.

kittykatz

The only way I see old glory working is that there are these commemorative plaques honoring 3 different navy people who died in either a shipwreck or were POWs. That would fit the mythological figure that the female is based off of (Russian version of a siren who would lure sailors to their death)

Just curious, but why do you think the final location will relate to anything thematic? Alas, Chicago buried in a field beside a railroad bed certainly didn’t. By saying “the only reason it could work,” you’re implying that this thematic link is a requirement. I believe that a reason we’re having trouble finding these could be that we may be trying to impose too much ‘logic’ to them. You know?
Could a location not just work because it is arrived at via the verse clues, has 22 steps or more and then has a promising v with image matches to boot?
edit: ugh, but then I find myself just flip-flopping to the “we know nothing john snow.” Can’t hurt to look for a thematic element, because maybe a couple will have it! Who knows!

leighanny

Statue of liberty isn’t super small in my opinion. It’s pretty clear from all points on shore park (where there aren’t trees). Ellis island is barely visible, however. I would definitively rule out the top of old glory as every planter zone is bricked in right up to the trees and 100% undiggable. Surprised you didn’t count those steps though…
Yeah, I dislike where I’ve come up with because of the bricks. Even so, it’s where my theory brought me. And I didn’t count the steps because it isn’t part of my theory. I’ll try to find the format I posted my theory in a while back and repost it tomorrow. My NY solution is not simple unfortunately. And I get that people have a problem with that. Still, it’s where I think it is. And I think I have a great image match to Old Glory.

I respect that you are sticking to your guns on your theory.
Obviously, it can not be on top of old glory, as a possible dig spot that is. The problem with image confirmations, in my experience with this puzzle, is that it is easy to get lost in your own bias without even knowing you are doing so. That is why so many people are hard on others when their image confirmation is not spot on as we have seen in the solved puzzles, not that I think that is a good reason to dismiss a potential clue.
I have seen a lot of image confirmations that make sense for several theories on Shore road, very good ones in fact. Yet, the only things that seems alluring about old glory is that it is one, if not the only spot with landmarks. Are we talking about crescent shape areas like old glory because it matches the arch in image 12? That is very possible, but that is not a unique feature in this area.
Luckily, this thread stayed light an image matches and focused on the verse. At which point a lot of things in the image started to have a stronger match and possibly meaning. That got us to this spot that is not a unique solve at all but how we got to it sure is.
I would still love to see your theory and your image conformations. We have a discord group for private discussion like that if you would like as well.

[ =”davinci4″]Would someone mind posting a complete solve for Old Glory starting with the ‘gray giant’ and going line by line?
I’m not at my computer today but will try to get to this as soon as I can. Can someone remind me how to post a picture here? Again, I’m sure some say my theory is far fetched, so it probably won’t be what you’re looking for. But it’s something to think about.

phrabbott

Think we should slow down here. There’s nothing that makes this theory better than many of the other prevailing theories in the area. The only reason we’re at Ft. Hamilton HS is that you wouldn’t believe Charles Dickens could be him of hard word, so I provided an age old, solid interpretation that uses him. And then there happened to be one shore park’s dozen ‘v’ paths in front of it. What makes this process different?
Do I think the theory holds merit? Sure. We dug some holes yesterday, didn’t we?
Not trying to belittle the theory, but we have answered approximately the same amount of image/verse clues as most other theories that are presented (if not less). I still personally can’t tie my “Grey Giant->Whirring” to my “Indies->v” for this one.
It seems the only reason we feel strongly about this particular location is that we’ve answered the elusive “him of Hard word” which is the clue people have given this mythical strength to. Answering that clue does not make for a stronger theory as we still don’t know what that clue does for the puzzle when solved correctly.
Adding the 22 steps from the v was exciting, but I have equally strong 22 steps in all three of my shore park theories.
In sum, I wouldn’t poke holes in others’ theories without hearing them first.

I agree and disagree.
Since time has past since this theory was first introduced, we have have the fortune of the Japanese clues to confirm at least Rhapsodic man and him of hard word. These 2 lines have never had a good match to them. You know I feel that both are strong clues and we probably have the right names. Him of hard word might be the final piece of the verse puzzle needed to tie in the school to the solve. That is the missing piece and confirmation that nobody could of had back 7 years ago. So we for sure have more of a possible solve then the old ones.
If we are talking about Old glory and poking holes into that theory, I am not. I am just saying the obvious, that it can not be on top of Old Glory as suggested but I am still very interested in knowing how they got there.

leighanny

[ =”davinci4″]Would someone mind posting a complete solve for Old Glory starting with the ‘gray giant’ and going line by line?

I’m not at my computer today but will try to get to this as soon as I can. Can someone remind me how to post a picture here? Again, I’m sure some say my theory is far fetched, so it probably won’t be what you’re looking for. But it’s something to think about.
We aren’t looking for anything but ideas to play with, so thank you for agreeing to post something about your solve.

leighanny

Can someone remind me how to post a picture here?

If you upload to imgur, apparently it’s easier to scale. Definitely use the preview function while posting pics so you can tweak. If you already have it uploaded to gDrive or Dropbox, I would personally just link people there and not embed a photo here. A bit quicker to see if it’s inline, but I’ve found that if you make them an appropriate size for thread, they’re too small and I have to open them elsewhere anyway. Six of one half dozen of another, I suppose.

Choice

Greatness Kang!

But I thought St. Basil was a day that New Yorker’s rung in… someplace…

ssshhhhhhh, they’ll hear you! No mentioning of Times Square here!

Choice

ssshhhhhhh, they’ll hear you! No mentioning of Times Square here!

You mean that place that has a building with a giant statue of Ophelia above the door?
OK, I’ll hush.

No it can’t be. The sash/belt is all wrong!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bart_rick/22338895233

Choice

No it can’t be. The sash/belt is all wrong!
https://www.flickr.com/photos/bart_rick/22338895233

You’re right… it definitely can’t be that Ophelia… the BarryMORE on the “steps” store.
Maybe it’s a painting of Ophelia we are looking for?

NYCNative

Start here. ^^^^^^
This was a good point, which I hope you choose to explore…

Glossiphoniidae

Conversely –
I think the terminology “leads” is most applicable when speaking of possible clues in the verse. Interpretation is subjective which is why I think they need to be supported by a strong interpretation of the image.
Conversely –
If we want to really break ground with this puzzle, we need to really understand this verse better. It seems we all find a spot and then try to make things fit the verse, which we will always be able to do with almost any spot.
Do you see the problem with this logic? No matter what you choose to do, you are piling subjectivity on top of subjectivity.
[Re]Start here. ^^^^^^
This was a good point, which I hope you choose to explore…

Oh Thank you old wise one!!
But with all your absolutes and personality issues, I can not take anything you say seriously.

NYCNative

Oh Thank you old wise one!! But with all your absolutes…

Isn’t that what you are looking for?

NYCNative

There is no building that I have seen in reality that is exact to the onion domes in the image. If you look at the furthest tower in the onion dome image, it is not an onion dome at all. You wont find the piece in the Russian Orthodox church building.

phrabbott

Other than being onion domes they are nothing alike to St Nicholas or Transfiguration… That’s very off brand for Palencar. I could go with a “they’re not exact and just a representation” if he hadn’t added
more
little details than either of those churches have as opposed to dumbing them down a bit for more of a generic silhouette.

maltedfalcon

or like in chicago and cleveland they are waymarks along one of two paths.

Onion domes: As others have said, this may be a symbol of Russia and the Russian Immigration link rather than a physical place we’re supposed to locate that will 100% match the image.
What evidence could there be for this interpretation?:
1. The color. Something close to that light blue has been a symbol of Russia for 300 years – since Peter the Great “borrowed” the color scheme for the Russian Imperial/National flag from The Netherlands. It was even on the official Flag of the Soviet Union.
Russian Imperial Flag since Peter the Great. And the Russian National Flag since 1991. (They’ve made it a slightly darker blue now).
Official Flag of the Soviet Union (1954-1991)
It’s also been on literally dozens of Russian and Soviet civilian and military flags and coats of arm for several hundred years.
2. NOTHING in NYC matches this exactly. We can argue all day about what comes closest. But at the end of the day, Nothing matches exactly. Period. If anyone would like to refute this, feel free to offer up a new match. None of the known ones do the trick.
I agree.
Transfiguration? Side domes way too small. Column under middle dome way to wide/thick. Missing ball on top of middle dome.
St Nicholas? Side domes closer, but again too small. Missing ball on top of middle dome. Also, I have not a seen a convincing place once could stand and see the domes as a match. When viewed from below they appear squat and misshapen. Maybe Central Park is best option, but we know that’s out.
Questions about this icon:
Why does the middle dome have a ball at the top?
Why is the right dome lopsided? Left side of right dome is too far left and comes down lower than right side of it does. Why?
Why is the left dome too tall and not shaped like the others? Where it’s supposed to curve back inward toward the top, it does not. It seems stretched taller. Why?
OK, so if it’s just a symbol of Russia, did JJP just invent it outright? It looks like nothing in real life? That’s where the symbol of Russia may really come into play. There are few churches that could be more symbolic in this case than St Basil’s in Moscow. Others have long said this may be a match. What I’d like to propose is that a picture taken from nearly the same place as the one below may have been JJP’s image reference. To match more exactly, one would need to be standing closer and maybe a little left of here:
This in my opinion is the most point for point match I’ve seen. Moving closer and left would clean things up even further.
Top middle dome “ball” would come down closer to JJP’s.
Left pair of domes would merge in silhouette and make it appear ‘stretched” vertically, like JJP’s.
Right pair of domes would merge in silhouette and give the left side a lopsided appearance like JJP’s.
In silhouette, the match starts to really shine.
Just my opinion, but that negative space does not appear a match to Manhattan. By far. That’s just me.
And Malted Falcon – I am not convinced of your ‘literal’ path theory nor your new and improved Two Paths theory, but remain open to convincing as I may not have seen all the evidence you have. I certainly don’t rule it out. However, if St Basil’s was JJP’s inspiration – either one of your paths will need to go through Moscow – or there would need to be some other symbolism or interpretation at play, like passing a church that is “evocative” but not a literal match. Or some other such thing going on. Which there may well be. We’ll see once you reveal your NYC paths.

Wow. The empty space between the domes is pretty exact.
That is pretty freaking cool!
Nice one, KANG!

So Kang and I have worked extensively on the above, and I think it’s worth a serious look. After continuously pestering him about the domes, he so graciously found this amazing angle of St. Basils.
Really give his circled regions a good look. It’s a very good match to all the trim pieces.

Kang. I completely agree. St Basil drawn in perspective. No question. Nice work! …One panel we can cross off the list now. Remember too, Preiss’ intent in writing this book wasn’t just to create an epic treasure hunt but also an homage to immigration. I agree, what better symbol to use than St Basil to tie in the Russian theme.

Greatness Kang! Pretty close.
https://tinyurl.com/y3mz4ooq
But at the risk of getting screamed at
If you stand a bit to the left then the “Manhattan” part of the gap would be even narrower.
Maybe JJP manipulated the image to insert a Manhattan like feature in there.
(takes cover)

davinci4

Two different clues/two different lines:
1) Indies Native is Alexander Hamilton i.e. Fort Hamilton
2) Him of Hard word is Oliver Wendell Holmes I.e. Oliver Street

Sounds promising!

NYCNative, I think maybe you need to read a little more carefully before you launch a tirade.
Charles Dickens and Oliver Wendell Holmes are – ummm – Two different people.
Davinci’s post has nothing to do with Dickens at all. They are putting forth another idea for a possibility and asking for other’s opinion on the idea. No harm in that.
And it is exactly what you are unnecessarily screaming at Davinci to do. Lay off the Dickens and look for another answer.
So maybe think about calming down a bit…

Kang

NYCNative, I think maybe you need to read a little more carefully before you launch a tirade.
Charles Dickens and Oliver Wendell Holmes are – ummm – Two different people.
Davinci’s post has nothing to do with Dickens at all. They are putting forth another idea for a possibility and asking for other’s opinion on the idea. No harm in that.
And it is exactly what you are unnecessarily screaming at Davinci to do. Lay off the Dickens and look for another answer.
So maybe think about calming down a bit…

I read it wrong. I thought he was using Dickens, to get to Oliver, to make OWH fit. My fault.

Unknown

Unknown:
Another possibility:

I wonder which is greater, the number of “possibilities” or the bandwith on this forum.

Brilliant

Goonie68

Maybe?
One branch of the V, Military branch = NA-VY? From the Brooklyn Naval Yard south , Flatbush and Washington form a V.
https://ibb.co/BChVJCy

Another possibility:
The red outlined rectangle may be Central Park. Since BP mentioned that there’s no treasure in the park then red outline perhaps means “no go zone”.
The south side is not red. There, to the west corner is the USS Maine Memorial, representing the Navy and to the east the Grand Army Plaza.
Statue of the winged ‘v’ictory has a mean looking face and hair line similar to the painting.
https://tinyurl.com/y6y6e2az
The road below outlined by light blue would be 59th St.

Hi All. Giving more thought to some of the discussion about of “him of word.” Maybe much more of a direct approach than the Charles Dickens interpretation. I like the area we are looking in and decided to explore a few more ideas about the streets with proper names including Oliver Street.
‘Him of hard word in three vols’=
Oliver Wendell Holmes
Three volumes of ‘Breakfast Table’ series:
1) Autocrat at the Breakfast Table
2) Professor at the Breakfast Table
3) Poet at the Breakfast Table
Chapter 5 in Autocrat:
“As soon as his breath comes back, he very probably begins to expend it in hard words.”
Looking at Britannica and Wikipedia, this collection seems to be among his or possibly most famous work.
Japanese clue aside, it seems to make sense. Thoughts?

Oliver Wendell Holmes was born in Boston. How about the Indie part?

Euhirudinea

I wonder which is greater, the number of “possibilities” or the bandwith on this forum.

I think the forum already has the perfect person in place to test the limits of both.

p.s. Balls

Choice

Oliver Wendell Holmes was born in Boston. How about the Indie part?

Two different clues/two different lines:
1) Indies Native is Alexander Hamilton i.e. Fort Hamilton
2) Him of Hard word is Oliver Wendell Holmes I.e. Oliver Street

I am still not in the Charles Dickens camp. If we never found or had the Japanese edition, how would anyone reasonably make the leap to Dickens? I am not dismissing him altogether, but it would seem to me that there should be some solid evidence to relate Dickens to the location and puzzle.

Kang. That is a phenomenal post!

Kang

Just for fun….
According to his yearbook credits – and if the info that he graduated in 1968 is accurate – he should be in these somewhere. They were/are kind of a big deal at Midwood High School.
1,000 Secret ‘nerd points’ if you can pick out Byron’s voice….
Midwood High School “Senior Sing” Side A
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5dtBEQyi-hQ
Midwood High School “Senior Sing” Side B
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z_doiJjQaEY

I find it interesting that BP’s DOB is listed as April 11, 1953, which makes him a late baby as far as the school year goes. Typically you would be admitted into Kindergarten at 4 years old if you were born before December 31. If this is accurate, then a 1968 graduation date would put him at just over 15 years old. Even 1969 would be 16 years old. His graduation from U of Penn in 1972 would support a ’68 or ’69 HS grad date. Either way, obviously a prodigy, unless his DOB is off.
Now, back to the matter at hand, where is the casque NY searchers?

phrabbott

Students still speak of Charles Dickens. NYCNative always had the gripe that noone in NYC is speaking of Charles Dickens. That’s true. But in school, they certainly are.
“Although the sign nearby says [ft.] Hamilton [High school]”, the students still speak of [read] Charles Dickens.
Seems like a pretty reasonable logic puzzle. (if we’re assuming these two phrases need to make sense together.)

GMan. This actually makes a lot of sense in my opinion. Also, people on this board proposed the Dickens/Hard Times connection long before the Japanese translation.

davinci4

GMan. This actually makes a lot of sense in my opinion. Also, people on this board proposed the Dickens/Hard Times connection long before the Japanese translation.

While I get it and Dickens was required reading in school, it is seemingly random to reference an English writer. I realize that Dickens did visit America a couple of times and even spent some time in NYC, but one would think the reference in the Verse would point to someone local or that possibly had a bigger impact on the area. In Verse 7, Twain is specifically called out, and had actually lived and worked in SF. In Verse 10, we have a cryptic clue that could mean anyone IMO.
EDIT:
If we accept that Ft. Hamilton HS is the focal point, and the students are the natives; then the person referenced by “him of hard word” becomes somewhat moot. It could mean any writer or famous figure. Maybe this is why the clue is so intentionally vague.

Hi GMan. I am going to try and summarize for the group (and this really has been a true group effort).
Everyone else feel free to add/amend/edit.
Verse:
In the shadow
Of the grey giant (at border of Manhattan)
Find the arm that (pick a parkway)
Extends over the slender path (278/Belt/BQE-extend over narrows)
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound (ferries in NY Bay or bike path along Belt I.e. stay by the shore)
Cars abound (South Shore Park, bounded by Belt and Shore Road)
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native (Fort Hamilton HS Sign)
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols. (Students at Fort Hamilton HS still read Charles Dickens)
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more (take 22 steps east)
From the middle of one branch
Of the v (from v in front of HS)
Look down
And see simple roots (grass)
In rhapsodic man’s soil (general Brooklyn reference-Gershwin)
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B. (SOL, Bedloe’s Island)
Image confirmers:
-red dot panel: “83 (or 5) St.”, location of Fort Hamilton HS
-edge of robe = map outline, north end of Shore Road
-Roman numeral clock = clock in front of Fort Hamilton HS, visible at cask site, also lines up with middle of v as you walk east 22 steps
-Surf: Shore Park or Shore Road
-gray panel= outline of ground in front of HS, visible at cask site
-onion domes= St Basil’s cathedral (General Russian theme)

davinci4

Hi GMan. I am going to try and summarize for the group (and this really has been a true group effort).
Everyone else feel free to add/amend/edit.
Verse:
In the shadow
Of the grey giant (at border of Manhattan)
Find the arm that (pick a parkway)
Extends over the slender path (278/Belt/BQE-extend over narrows)
In summer
You’ll often hear a whirring sound (ferries in NY Bay or bike path along Belt I.e. stay by the shore)
Cars abound (South Shore Park, bounded by Belt and Shore Road)
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native (Fort Hamilton HS Sign)
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols. (Students at Fort Hamilton HS still read Charles Dickens)
Take twice as many east steps as the hour
Or more (take 22 steps east)
From the middle of one branch
Of the v (from v in front of HS)
Look down
And see simple roots (grass)
In rhapsodic man’s soil (general Brooklyn reference-Gershwin)
Or gaze north
Toward the isle of B. (SOL, Bedloe’s Island)
Image confirmers:
-red dot panel: “83 (or 5) St.”, location of Fort Hamilton HS
-edge of robe = map outline, north end of Shore Road
-Roman numeral clock = clock in front of Fort Hamilton HS, visible at cask site, also lines up with middle of v as you walk east 22 steps
-Surf: Shore Park or Shore Road
-gray panel= outline of ground in front of HS, visible at cask site
-onion domes= St Basil’s cathedral (General Russian theme)

Nice summary for those playing along at home.
Let’s analyze the v. If the v is a path or walkway and reasonably well defined, meaning there is a start and end (I have to look at a map, preferably old one), then the instructions would tell us to find the midpoint of one leg and take 22 steps from there, no? Is there anything on the ground that would be a natural stopping point at 22 steps?

MERLIN

When researching Gershwin I keep ending up in the Morningside Heights area….thoughts?

I still really like Riverside Park/Morningside. However, it is on the backburner currently.
Why I like it? It’s rife with verse/image matches. Tons of grey giants you can start from (grant’s tomb, soldier’s and sailors, Riverside Church, St John the Divine), Hamilton fountain with dancing lion image match
(if you think Byron could be just referencing the words on the sign and not the actual ‘who’)
, Gershwin’s most recognized residence, the list goes on.
However, it’s on the backburner for two reasons:
A. 74 is most recognizable number in the image. If this is the Eastern most longitude, all of Manhattan’s northern parks are cut off. This really only leaves Battery as a viable Manhattan option. As we’re looking up there, we could argue that 74 could be the westernmost longitude, but then the SoL and bay isn’t included… nice segue to my next point:
B. If this area ends up being the final spot, then all of the image’s bay references (SoL, Ellis Island Ferry Bird head, Seabird body, wave crashing, possible ellis island dock) don’t contribute to the puzzle. I’d like to think that’s not the case.

Yes. We have the old aerial photos in this thread. The middle of the v matches up almost perfectly with the clock tower at the high school.
Regarding walking east from the v, check out White Rabbits aerial photos (and solution). I use the length of the cars in the photo as a rough estimate of about 15 feet. So figure 3 car lengths if you walk 22 steps east. Puts you right at the east edge of the park where there is the fence that lines Shore Road….

gManTexas

Either way, obviously a prodigy, unless his DOB is off.

Hey gMan!
Interesting catch, he must have graduated at 15. I don’t think his DOB is off, it’s on his headstone:
https://images.findagrave.com/photos/20 … 159876.jpg
***Now, back to the matter at hand***

davinci4

Yes. We have the old aerial photos in this thread. The middle of the v matches up almost perfectly with the clock tower at the high school.
Regarding walking east from the v, check out White Rabbits aerial photos (and solution). I use the length of the cars in the photo as a rough estimate of about 15 feet. So figure 3 car lengths if you walk 22 steps east. Puts you right at the east edge of the park where there is the fence that lines Shore Road….

Looking at street view, dated 2018, there appears to be old growth trees and the fence looks old. Although in Google Earth it looks like the area was torn up a couple of times, especially in 2012. Maybe that part was not renovated. I would think you would want to line up with the rectangle with the flagpole and clock in front of the school, but across the street in the park area. The path follows the fence line and measured in GE is roughly 52 feet, which is just about 22 paces.
I’m not convinced, but it looks like you could dig there without any problems. Just eyeballing, it would be a small area.

davinci4

Look down
And see simple roots (grass)
In rhapsodic man’s soil (general Brooklyn reference-Gershwin)

I never took this as literally looking down at grass. Rather, I took “simple roots” to mean something akin to
early beginnings
, such as Preiss’s early life in Brooklyn [rhapsodic man’s soil].

I’m interested in what is driving some of these recent (resurrected) theories that seem to be centered around the Belt Parkway area. Is it the SOL? Something else? Honestly, while I don’t necessarily emphatically believe the casques have to be in major parks, this area seems to be devoid of anything like a Cultural Garden, Grant Park, Lake Park, etc.
Discuss.

Hi GMan. We actually discussed this recently. Kang made some very interesting points and posted some great pics of the major parks (Prospect, Central) in NY in the early 80s. Needless to say, they were not in the shape they are now. Go back a few pages in this thread for full discussion. Curious to hear your thoughts. I had same concern but Kang’s post provided great perspective.

gManTexas

I’m interested in what is driving some of these recent (resurrected) theories that seem to be centered around the Belt Parkway area. Is it the SOL? Something else? Honestly, while I don’t necessarily emphatically believe the casques have to be in major parks, this area seems to be devoid of anything like a Cultural Garden, Grant Park, Lake Park, etc.
Discuss.

Personally, I don’t think they’re all in major parks. I think some are buried in more out-of-the-way places, especially the NY one. I’m of the mind to think that Preiss realized how crazy it might be to be digging in a NYC park, even though the situation was majorly different in the seventies and early eighties (there’s another thread about the parks during that time period). Everything I see points to the area this thread is looking into. Maybe this is all wrong, but it’s got a good feel to it, even though that means nothing.

davinci4

Hi GMan. We actually discussed this recently. Kang made some very interesting points and posted some great pics of the major parks (Prospect, Central) in NY in the early 80s. Needless to say, they were not in the shape they are now. Go back a few pages in this thread for full discussion. Curious to hear your thoughts. I had same concern but Kang’s post provided great perspective.

I made that (safety) argument about Central Park previously, and not to mention its immense size, which is the same way I feel about Golden Gate Park. Too big to have people searching. However, at the time in the early 80s, it was a fact of life that we dealt with that crime was rampant and you had to be on guard. I do not totally buy into the argument that Bantam would be on the hook if someone got injured or killed. Everything is so litigious these days and we cannot apply today’s standards to back then.
Having said this, if it turns out that the casque is in front of Ft. Hamilton HS, so be it. Really disappointing location for what should be a crown jewel of puzzles in his hometown, but a reasonably viable location.
Personally, the “solve” feels empty. I think it is way more clever.

gManTexas

I’m interested in what is driving some of these recent (resurrected) theories that seem to be centered around the Belt Parkway area. Is it the SOL? Something else? Honestly, while I don’t necessarily emphatically believe the casques have to be in major parks, this area seems to be devoid of anything like a Cultural Garden, Grant Park, Lake Park, etc.
Discuss.

Hey gman.
For recent discussion on ‘major park’ ‘museum/monument’ vs this area, there are some posts here on page 18
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8015&start=255
As for ticking boxes on why the interest in this area – just from a verse perspective and even being somewhat conservative in interpretation there is the possibility of:
SOL – if Isle of B is Bedloe and you take the ‘look north’ on the literal side, SW Brooklyn is the only area one can do that and be on land.
Shadow of the grey giant – possibilities include Brooklyn being in Manhattan’s metaphorical shadow. Or the Verrazzano.
Whirring – Japanese hint strongly hints at bicycle. Promenade bicycle path is old and well known. And those were much fewer 40 years ago.
Slender path – Narrows.
Indies Native – plethora of Hamilton stuff.
Rhapsodic soil / Gershwin – general Brooklyn clue.
To me at least that seems enough to give it a run through and see what shakes out. At the very least. Your thoughts?

gManTexas

I’m interested in what is driving some of these recent (resurrected) theories that seem to be centered around the Belt Parkway area. Is it the SOL? Something else? Honestly, while I don’t necessarily emphatically believe the casques have to be in major parks, this area seems to be devoid of anything like a Cultural Garden, Grant Park, Lake Park, etc.

I wouldn’t call them resurrected. They’re more like festering theories. I don’t trust that anyone systematically probes to the point that a theory is ruled out. Most get excited at any rock strike and dig thus wasting time and preventing a thorough inspection of any area.
I believe it’s worth probing just based on the indies/hard word viability at the school. I never said it’s a good idea and I too will be disappointed, but at this point, I don’t trust this hunt to be anything amazing.
I think it’s easier and less time consuming to probe than to theoretically discuss it.

Kang

Hey gman.
For recent discussion on ‘major park’ ‘museum/monument’ vs this area, there are some posts here on page 18
viewtopic.php?f=32&t=8015&start=255
As for ticking boxes on why the interest in this area – just from a verse perspective and even being somewhat conservative in interpretation there is the possibility of:
SOL – if Isle of B is Bedloe and you take the ‘look north’ on the literal side, SW Brooklyn is the only area one can do that and be on land.
Shadow of the grey giant – possibilities include Brooklyn being in Manhattan’s metaphorical shadow. Or the Verrazzano.
Whirring – Japanese hint strongly hints at bicycle. Promenade bicycle path is old and well known. And those were much fewer 40 years ago.
Slender path – Narrows.
Indies Native – plethora of Hamilton stuff.
Rhapsodic soil / Gershwin – general Brooklyn clue.
To me at least that seems enough to give it a run through and see what shakes out. At the very least. Your thoughts?

For sure it should be investigated, although being the prominent theory on the Wiki site would lead me to believe that it has been probed to death like the CG (or 2Cs) structure in Boston. I don’t disagree that it has merits, just that BP had 20 something years of experience in that region and I would like to think that a more culturally rich location would have been his choice.
I say go document it, photos, videos, etc. Then poke a bunch or holes, maybe even commit a shovel to the ground and see what happens.

phrabbott

I wouldn’t call them resurrected. They’re more like festering theories. I don’t trust that anyone systematically probes to the point that a theory is ruled out. Most get excited at any rock strike and dig thus wasting time and preventing a thorough inspection of any area.
I believe it’s worth probing just based on the indies/hard word viability at the school. I never said it’s a good idea and I too will be disappointed, but at this point, I don’t trust this hunt to be anything amazing.
I think it’s easier and less time consuming to probe than to theoretically discuss it.

I say dig. If the spot is supposed to line up with the clock, flagpole and rectangle, there should be a very small area or maybe 3-4 feet square to investigate.

The clock must be a more significant part of the puzzle than just a typical clock tower that visually is not a match.
Woman’s eyes looking at 9 o’clock direction.
The verse line ‘Of the v’… Is that really a v?
ט
or tet is the 9th letter in Hebrew alphabet and 9 on Hebrew clocks.

I like that this has been a group effort, and I had advocated at one time to “mind-hive” a puzzle a month. Maybe we can all do this with the NYC puzzle. Everyone throw their brains and wisdom into solving this one. Let the boots on the ground do their thing, since we seem to have some eager explorers over there.

gManTexas

I like that this has been a group effort, and I had advocated at one time to “mind-hive” a puzzle a month. Maybe we can all do this with the NYC puzzle. Everyone throw their brains and wisdom into solving this one. Let the boots on the ground do their thing, since we seem to have some eager explorers over there.

Always happy to have your input Gman!

When researching Gershwin I keep ending up in the Morningside Heights area….thoughts?

MERLIN

When researching Gershwin I keep ending up in the Morningside Heights area….thoughts?

What would be the “isle of B”?
Broadway perhaps?

MERLIN

When researching Gershwin I keep ending up in the Morningside Heights area….thoughts?

A few of us ended up there and after a lot of research, there is not much there to make a strong and relevant solve. For example, what would be the Isle of B in that area?
The groups thought on the Gershwin reference in the verse is that it takes you to his roots in Brooklyn. I hated this reference because I was expecting to actually be in an area that has something more precise about Gershwin, other then the borough he started his life in.
I know a few of us went up and down the coast of the Hudson looking for something to connect to the verse or the image. We all failed at doing so in our own independent investigations. There are promising leads there, such as the supposed sight where Peter Minuit bought the island of Manhattan. there are little things here and there that can make sense but falls short of having all the elements we need for a possible solve.

gManTexas

What would be the “isle of B”?
Broadway perhaps?

I remember we once considered Broadway as a possibility. I think the logic was that Isle could mean aisle but that seems like a stretch. That would be way to deliberate to trick people with a totally different word. We do know for a fact that the word Isle was used in the book and it was used to mean Island.

phrabbott

74 is most recognizable number in the image. If this is the Eastern most longitude, all of Manhattan’s northern parks are cut off. This really only leaves Battery as a viable Manhattan option. As we’re looking up there, we could argue that 74 could be the westernmost longitude, but then the SoL and bay isn’t included… If this area ends up being the final spot, then all of the image’s bay references (SoL, Ellis Island Ferry Bird head, Seabird body, wave crashing, possible ellis island dock) don’t contribute to the puzzle. I’d like to think that’s not the case.

That is some logical thinking right there – A problem well stated is half solved, huh?
Granted there is disagreement about map coordinates in this puzzle – but not the 74.
One might certainly not subscribe to the box theory – or not for this puzzle.
However, if one believes in the – map coordinates boxes in the area of interest theory – there’s no getting around this point. Either 74 is the eastern edge of the box or the western edge.
If it’s the western edge, the area of interest is Queens, all but SW Brooklyn and all but the southern tip of Manhattan. But if that’s the case, why are all the clues phrabbott points to outside of that?
Or it’s the eastern edge and the area of interest is Staten Island, SW Brooklyn and just the southern tip of Manhattan.

Nobody hated the Dickens idea more then I. But I will tell you how I got to my conclusion with that line.
I was originally just looking to find something about the 3 vols. part. I really found it frustrating that even the abbreviation, VOLS., was not just easily assumed to be Volumes. There was always a bit of a doubt that it could mean something other then that. I can not remember how I got into the Rabbit hole but I somehow landed on 3 volume novels, a.k.a triple deckers.
It felt very right and if correct, it is less vague then it seems. We are not looking for anything that may have a 3 volume set, we are looking for a novelist who wrote something famous in this form of writing. I already saw this road going to DICKENS, but I pushed against it. I researched Walter Scott and others just to not give consideration to DICKENS! More and more research and I could not match anyone to “him of hard word in 3 volumes”. So fine! I do my research on Dickens and the fact that he wrote Hard times in the publication Household words, in comparison to other possibilities, makes him the obvious choice.
So the line would go: Although the sign nearby says Hamilton, the natives still speak of Dickens.
My argument was, “who the F still speaks of Dickens in Brooklyn?! There was a church he spoke in located in Brooklyn Heights but that is way out of our area of interests and there is nothing else there. Nothing else of relevance about his physical presence and influence in Brooklyn. Then this poo poo head dude tells me, “it is the high school students! The sign is the Hamilton H.S sign and Dickens is still being read and probably acted in the high school. This also gave me some clarification on why the word although. Although it says Hamilton( although meaning, Even though Hamilton’s name is on the sign, he is not the topic of discussion there), Dickens is studied there.
I don’t know about you guys but this is as solid as it gets. Very, VEry VEry Happy!

GoldenMartyr

I thought I answered this a page back. They didn’t fully solve the puzzle.
Are you arguing the side that says the intent was only to get close and mail in a solution?

Yes, and on that same page I asked, with the full solution what was the clue that put them in the precise spot of the casque? I got no answer from you.
As for your second question,..huh? Who is arguing this?

davinci4

Bingo. I would argue that the Cleveland cask was a pretty confined space. When they started at the correct brick marker, it took 20 minutes to dig the hole if I am not mistaken. No GPR or pictures from Preiss.
I think it’s hard to say if you are dealing with a 5×5 area (or larger or smaller) because these puzzles work differently in that regard. For example, if you take one of the prevailing theories in Houston, the ‘treasure map’ was actually the painting which was a perspective drawing of the cask location. In Milwaukee, presumably it’s right next to a birch tree. I suspect the details in these paintings become more obvious when you are standing in the correct location.
Details regarding the presumed cask spot are where most ‘solutions’ start to fall apart, including my own. Two months ago, I was still trying to make JPJ Park work. I think this where people have to start analyzing their solutions. Put yourself in JPJ Park for example, and ask yourself, do things add up? There is a gazebo, cannon, cannon balls, obelisk monument, ship mast. Wouldn’t have JJP drawn influence from one or more of these potential markers? Why does 22 steps from every v put you in another insignificant patch of grass? It’s sometimes hard to analyze our own solutions, but very helpful if you are going to make strides going forward.
To quote TISOTGH, “sometimes the way to go forward is to go back.”

Sounds logical to me.

NYCNative

Sounds logical to me.

Sure, but don’t forget that was AFTER six hours of completely digging out the left side of the planter. You know, the side that the verse was very clear and concise about the casques location…
Enjoy the dig. I look forward to hearing all about the experience.

BINGO

Sure, but don’t forget that was AFTER six hours of completely digging out the left side of the planter. You know, the side that the verse was very clear and concise about the casques location…
Enjoy the dig. I look forward to hearing all about the experience.

Oh I have no doubt it would still be difficult to find the casque and dig it out without digging a massive hole, which we really can not do in this type of location. The natives there are very protective of their community. Digging a hole is work and doing it while trying to keep a low profile and minimal damage to the park is hard work in 3 vols.
Thanks for the encouragement BINGO. Much appreciated!

Choice

The whole concept of crowd sharing is to brainstorm and build on eachother’s ideas not to stroke your own ego by rejecting other viewpoints.
Right now some people have setup their own private stroke-fest thread and waiting for someone on the main forum to squirt out a “kernel of corn” for them to chew on. Meanwhile they do not share anything from walking the grounds and what they observed or learned. It’s all one-sided. This is not how a crowd-sharing forum is supposed to work.

phrabbott

Ok, so I actually feel better about this area than I originally did.
The good? It was quite easily 22 steps and change to the fence. Like 23 steps. Unless you’re NYCNative and take little kid baby steps.
So we went ahead and dug a few holes in the most likely “line ups.” Had a couple cops loop around on us, so we would fill our hole and sketch off for a bit making it slow going.
The ground along the fence is super diggable. Very few rocks or roots. Anyone in NYC have a GPR? I think it might actually do something here. Interestingly (and expectedly), the key, most obvious line up had a pretty big divot. Not a 6″ divot, but definitely an “I’ve been dug before divot.” Grass had regrown, so at least a couple months had passed. It also had a pad lock hanging above it. Not sure if the pad lock was related, but still weird.
However, we didn’t find anything… yet.

Just popped in to pound out a quick stroke, when I realized that there are some folks in another thread who apparently don’t bother to read before flinging baseless accusations around…To my shock and amazement, no less.
So I thought I’d quote the following – which was posted several weeks ago. What more sharing is needed? You need the badge number of the cop that started bird dogging and cut the outing short? I’ll get right on that.
Now where was I??? Ah, yes….

Glad you can still amaze yourself as you completely missed the point Kang.
What’s the point of having secret meetings in your mother’s basement if you don’t have things that you’re hiding and not sharing?
They continue poking blindly till they hit the target 40 yrs later, maybe. Spray n pray.
It just discourages some from posting their findings. Why do you want to help a bunch of strokers that disrespect you and hostile to you regularly?

Am I being attacked right now?

I missed nothing.
You say that people went boots on the ground and did not report back their findings.
That a damn lie. I know this because I was there. And I saw phrabbott’s post which I quoted – which he posted that same day.
Then you say in in one breath that they
must
be hiding something because of their secret meetings.
While in the next breath you’re bitching about the
public
stroke-fest thread they started in which they discuss these very secret things. For all to read.
Get it together man. Pick one side of the fight or the other.
As for your ‘findings’ – if you review the thread, I believe you may find that when your findings were on topic to SW Brooklyn, you were treated very nicely. Complimented even. And that when your ‘findings’ were about Columbus Circle, Roosevelt Island and Times Square you were not. Especially when you posted the same finding multiple times – over and over.
At which point, I personally suggested that those findings are all well and good. But should probably be posted in the usual Image 12 thread. Because to do otherwise is just trolling. And things seemed to get better after that.
With all respect, if you can manage to compartmentalize your helping into those two different buckets I’m confident that your findings will be treated with more respect and you then will in turn not become so discouraged. Best of luck to you. Peace.

You proved my point exactly. I post “private thread” and you read
public
.
Good luck with you.

SMH

gManTexas

SMH

Yeah, me too.
My reading comprehension is just fine.
Good thing I’m posting this in a public thread where he won’t see it…
Because it’s so so private.
30 pages worth of secret meetings no one but the strokers can see.
MMWOOHAHAHA…
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NnMQUGd-XYk

Clueless wonder, no one is talking about this thread. Are you that far gone?
gman, loosen up your G-string, tied too tight around your “brains”!
STFU

A bit off topic. Maybe we can move this to the “piss & moan” thread?
I can see you’re talking about the “old timers” maybe, but no one here says what they mean, so who knows? But why do you care? If their secret threads were so valuable, they’d have made progress. I understand you don’t want to feed the watchers that don’t contribute, but I’m not worried. It’s not the info, it’s how you use it and people are clearly using it poorly. Haha
So ya, come to BK, we’ll get some beers, we can put some faces to the names, and we can dig a hole.

Choice

Clueless wonder, no one is talking about this thread. Are you that far gone?
gman, loosen up your G-string, tied too tight around your “brains”!
STFU

Why do you feel the need to lash out at people? You are clearly wrong here. Plenty of people have shared tons of info about locations and digs, myself included.
Maybe you should find some other hobby.

Another invaluable comment from the peanut gallery.

Unknown

Unknown:
If their secret threads were so valuable, they’d have made progress.

Maybe they have.

phrabbott

A bit off topic. Maybe we can move this to the “piss & moan” thread?
So ya, come to BK, we’ll get some beers, we can put some faces to the names, and we can dig a hole.

That is the most gangster sh*t that has been said in a long time!
Regarding “the Secret, secret dig”: It will commence as stated in our last meeting that was located at the crest of a longbill’s back, over the under stated crevice of the bald eagle’s testicle, AKA Deez patriotic nuts.
I should remind everyone involved in said secret, secret society the penalty of speaking to any reporters, schizophrenics, law enforcement official, priests, or public forum members is spiritual death at the hands of a secret shaman from San Diego (AKA A Whale’s vagina).
This months raffle winner is Wendy! Wendy is a single mother of 6 and lives in a rural community in Dakota. Wendy is known for her killer smile, her addictive yummie brownies, and the assault charge on her now missing husband, Charles Parnum.
If anyone has seen Charles, you are urged to call the mother ship immediately! He has brown hair, dimples, and high cholesterol. He also responds to the name ” Pootie Kat”.

phrabbott

So ya, come to BK, we’ll get some beers, we can put some faces to the names, and we can dig a hole.

I get you buddy but I don’t swing that way. NYC is available; you can dig the old glory together!

davinci4

Yes. I think much “north towards Isle B,” rhapsodic’s man’s soil will not point to anything specific other than Brooklyn. Isle of B at least tells us we need to be able to visualize the SOL …
Let’s say for arguments sake, there is a plaque in South Shore Park that we all missed with an inscription quoting Charles Dickens. While it helps support the location, its not going to yield a precise dig spot. Maybe the real only question now is where is the “v” ? I like the one in front Fort Hamilton HS. What other “v”s are people considering?

The V in front of the HS has been bulldozed and repaved.
The thing about looking for v shaped paths is that you will be able to find them all over the place.
You really need to let that Dickens theory go. I know you are using it as an example in this case, but it is a theory based on nothing other that the name rhymes with chicken.

davinci4

I like this reference too…one other footnote. I saw a picture of a plaque in the Narrows Botanical Gardens in South Shore Park. It mentions continuing to grow roses even in “difficult times.” Thought that was worth mentioning as we are trying to find a connection in this area for this line. There is also a book on this plaque with some writing on it, but hard to read from image I saw. Anyone have a clear image? Have the narrows botanical gardens been investigated extensively?

Narrows Botanical garden was unfortunately not around when the casque was buried. It was created, I believe in 1995, but a bunch of neighborhood volunteers. Would be interesting to see what was there before then, if anything.

‘The v is the key.’ I propose the following criteria:
-v needs to run in N-S direction.
-adjacent dig spot approximately 50 feet away from middle of one branch
-can walk 22 steps from either branch as long as one is walking east
-dig spot should ‘say something’. Vague I know. But feel like the spot should be at a wall or gate or be designated by difference in terrain.
I know the area in front of the HS has been renovated but doesn’t rule it out. And there definitely other v’s in the area which could also fit. Feel like there could be another clue here that would eliminate ambiguity, hence my excitement of the possibility of “85 st.” being hidden in the painting.

Okay. Thanks. Yes would be nice to have an older aerial image of the northern area in South Shore Park. ….on another note, anyone have any comments on Choice’s observation regarding the red dot panel? I looked at it for a quite a while and the “85 st.” makes a lot of sense, and I am not one to over analyze images either. Just curious what the group’s thoughts were. Could be quite a significant finding considering this area in the northern end of South Shore Park we are considering.

davinci4

Okay. Thanks. Yes would be nice to have an older aerial image of the northern area in South Shore Park. ….on another note, anyone have any comments on Choice’s observation regarding the red dot panel? I looked at it for a quite a while and the “85 st.” makes a lot of sense, and I am not one to over analyze images either. Just curious what the group’s thoughts were. Could be quite a significant finding considering this area in the northern end of South Shore Park we are considering.

Everyone who has attempted to look at the panels and figure out numbers or letters, or even faces has only came up with a good case of pareidolia.
Also, he is the boy that cried wolf way to many times, in my book. Can’t respect someones ideas when they themselves don’t invest anytime in researching them before presenting them.

NYCNative

Can’t respect someones ideas when they themselves don’t invest anytime in researching them before presenting them.

Think of them as leads. Some are promising, some aren’t. What I like about Choice is he(I assume he, sorry if not) tends to work on an idea. It isn’t required to be part of an overarching solution. That is so important.

“Leads”. I like that terminology. …speaking of leads. Looking at the panels again. How about the Russian Orthodox Church in Brooklyn on 12th street as a spot on match. One more to add to the list. I think this one is like the Water Tower, where it gives you a general area to look but not site specific. And it fits the Russian theme of the painting, I can’t see a better fit for this panel than this one. It’s spot on.

GoldenMartyr

Think of them as leads. Some are promising, some aren’t. What I like about Choice is he(I assume he, sorry if not) tends to work on an idea. It isn’t required to be part of an overarching solution. That is so important.

I have to disagree. He attaches himself to one idea and tries to fit it in as much as possible, even when it clearly does not fit. He wants the attention and wants to be heard but just won’t do the work in making his ideas solid. Just shotgunning information that is not relevant is not promising to me.
But this thread is not about him and I am trying to just ignore him as much as possible. Not asking anyone else to do so.

davinci4

“Leads”. I like that terminology. …speaking of leads. Looking at the panels again. How about the Russian Orthodox Church in Brooklyn on 12th street as a spot on match. One more to add to the list. I think this one is like the Water Tower, where it gives you a general area to look but not site specific. And it fits the Russian theme of the painting, I can’t see a better fit for this panel than this one. It’s spot on.

We have seen that before but I don’t think it is a spot on match. The towers in the image have different features then the actual church does. In fact every onion dome building that has been mentioned have been a bit off compared to the image. Perhaps we are not looking for an exact match and perhaps the onion domes in the image is a combination of other things we have not yet considered.
There is no building that I have seen in reality that is exact to the onion domes in the image. If you look at the furthest tower in the onion dome image, it is not an onion dome at all. You wont find the piece in the Russian Orthodox church building.

While I am sure this is not a new theory, it has to be said.
I am starting to think “him of hard word” is JFK, especially now due to the location in Bay Ridge.
I am thinking he is being referred to as him of hard word due perhaps to the way he pronounced the word hard as well as his speech about the mission to the moon, which I believe was at Rice University, where he said,”..we do it because it is hard!”
On the 4th ave exit of the belt parkway, which is Ft. Hamilton, the sign leaving bar ridge says Kennedy airport. So although the sign speaks of Hamilton in one direction, in the opposite direction it speaks of Kennedy.
Why 3 Vols.? I have no clue because if vols. is not volumes then I am not sure what the word vols. is referring to.
Here is the kicker that I am sure previous theories about Kennedy could of not known. Since we now have the Japanese clues, we got the hint about the word play with chicken. I also checked the translation and in one version the clue said “he is a chicken”. Brooklyn is the birth place of Kennedy Chicken which opened its first store in Flatbush, Brooklyn in 1969. Since then has become a really big chain restaurant in NYC and spread through out the country.
Thoughts?

NYCNative

We have seen that before but I don’t think it is a spot on match. The towers in the image have different features then the actual church does. In fact every onion dome building that has been mentioned have been a bit off compared to the image. Perhaps we are not looking for an exact match and perhaps the onion domes in the image is a combination of other things we have not yet considered.
There is no building that I have seen in reality that is exact to the onion domes in the image. If you look at the furthest tower in the onion dome image, it is not an onion dome at all. You wont find the piece in the Russian Orthodox church building.

Maybe it’s not about the church itself.

GoldenMartyr

Maybe it’s not about the church itself.

Elaborate

NYCNative

Brooklyn is the birth place of Kennedy Chicken which opened its first store in Flatbush, Brooklyn in 1969. Since then has become a really big chain restaurant in NYC and spread through out the country.
Thoughts?

Non New Yorkers will think this is a dubious reference, but I assure you, this is the most NYC reference ever.

Choice

It could actually be both 83 and 85 like between 83rd and 85th St. In fact if you look at that window pane with the blue lens of a 3D glasses the 85 and St. pops out at you.

davinci4

…anyone have any comments on Choice’s observation regarding the red dot panel?…. Just curious what the group’s thoughts were.

NYCNative

Everyone who has attempted to look at the panels and figure out numbers or letters, or even faces has only came up with a good case of pareidolia.

davinci4

…would be nice to have an older aerial image of the northern area in South Shore Park.

Quote from another thread:
IF there is both an 83 St and 85 St there: Fort Hamilton HS takes up a two-block plot. Between 83rd and 85th Streets….Hmmm.
On another note – for those not old enough to remember, 3-D movies experienced quite a resurgence beginning in the early 80’s. Red/Blue glasses were readily available. They were disposable and many folks took them home after the movie. I even remember local TV broadcasts of old 50’s 3-D movies. One could pick up the glasses at just about any NYC area 7-11 to watch the movies on channel 9 or 11, I believe. I vaguely remember them giving them out with the purchase of any Slurpee.
Agree with your issue here, but not necessarily your apparent conclusion. One could also say that everyone who has attempted to find the NY casque has failed. While true, I’m not letting that stop me from trying it…Folks can undoubtedly see/make all sorts of letters and such out of the bubbles. Doing so would by necessity be “interpretive” and thus open to questioning and doubt. Some may rule out the possibility out of hand, as you may have. And that would be a valid opinion. But just because it’s a high-risk “lead” to try and work and while majority who try it will be wrong, it could pay off big for the lucky fool who gets it right (if it is right). Maybe Choice and davinci4 are those folks. I don’t know. You are welcome to disagree or think that the pareidolia risk is too high. And the odds would be with you.
davinci4 – You can check out these resources for this.
1. Download Google Earth Pro – Clock icon at top lets you toggle between different dates for overhead images.
2. Go to
https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer
Both of these can go back decades. Some older overheads will be crap. Some are surprisingly clear. Hopefully these will provide what you are looking for.

I like this reference too…one other footnote. I saw a picture of a plaque in the Narrows Botanical Gardens in South Shore Park. It mentions continuing to grow roses even in “difficult times.” Thought that was worth mentioning as we are trying to find a connection in this area for this line. There is also a book on this plaque with some writing on it, but hard to read from image I saw. Anyone have a clear image? Have the narrows botanical gardens been investigated extensively?

Kang

Quote from another thread:
IF there is both an 83 St and 85 St there: Fort Hamilton HS takes up a two-block plot. Between 83rd and 85th Streets….Hmmm.
On another note – for those not old enough to remember, 3-D movies experienced quite a resurgence beginning in the early 80’s. Red/Blue glasses were readily available. They were disposable and many folks took them home after the movie. I even remember local TV broadcasts of old 50’s 3-D movies. One could pick up the glasses at just about any NYC area 7-11 to watch the movies on channel 9 or 11, I believe. I vaguely remember them giving them out with the purchase of any Slurpee.
Agree with your issue here, but not necessarily your apparent conclusion. One could also say that everyone who has attempted to find the NY casque has failed. While true, I’m not letting that stop me from trying it…Folks can undoubtedly see/make all sorts of letters and such out of the bubbles. Doing so would by necessity be “interpretive” and thus open to questioning and doubt. Some may rule out the possibility out of hand, as you may have. And that would be a valid opinion. But just because it’s a high-risk “lead” to try and work and while majority who try it will be wrong, it could pay off big for the lucky fool who gets it right (if it is right). Maybe Choice and davinci4 are those folks. I don’t know. You are welcome to disagree or think that the pareidolia risk is too high. And the odds would be with you.
davinci4 – You can check out these resources for this.
1. Download Google Earth Pro – Clock icon at top lets you toggle between different dates for overhead images.
2. Go to
https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer
Both of these can go back decades. Some older overheads will be crap. Some are surprisingly clear. Hopefully these will provide what you are looking for.

Like everything else about this puzzle, to each their own and no theory is incorrect. However, those panels can produce absolutely anything you want it to. I have seen people fall down that rabbit hole many times, me being one of them. 3D glasses and color filters (not a new method) are just going to highlight whatever it is you want to see. your brain will try to make sense of it and it can not be unbiased.
Someone in another thread made a good point, if you believe the interview about NYC on the podcast. See the recent post on the image 12 thread. I believe the post was from M. Falcon.
I am not saying do not take a shot at trying to solve the “bubble panel”. Yes, just like the puzzle itself, a new perspective can bring some light to some questions. But if we all do the puzzle the exact same way, using the same methods, a new perspective would be limited in its worth. It is just my opinion, but doing this again is beating a dead horse. You won’t produce the same results as others who have done the same, you will just produce more confirmation of what you want to see.
Anyway, the interview clues about it on the podcast seem more credible and possible then trying to make out shapes, numbers, letters and faces out of it.

Thoughts?
https://imgur.com/a/I5YdmKi

Hard word could be a cuss word. Reminds me of Hamilton musical and the song “Hamilton bastard orphan”.
Also lion in Hamilton’s shield is present in the breakers.

NYCNative

3D glasses and color filters (not a new method) are just going to highlight whatever it is you want to see. your brain will try to make sense of it and it can not be unbiased.

Based on this statement, I see why you discredit the idea, but that’s not at all how it should work, imo. The filters would not be used to highlight something. One or more color absorption filter is placed in front of a light source so that it shines upon the image. The goal would be to find the proper combination of filters that would make dots disappear or turn black. This would be best achieved using physical filter, a light source, and a printed image or the book.
What I am referencing is an elementary school science experiment.

Regarding Russian Orthodox Cathedral of the Transfiguration of Our Lord, I was doing some research on that this morning and I do think it’s the best match out there. Sure, it’s not exact – if it was exact it would include the crosses at the top, for one. But it’s pretty close. Also of course the fact that it matches the Russian theme and is close to a park doesn’t hurt.
It’s striking how similar New York and the Boston puzzle seem to be:
They both have these castles in the images and it’s unclear what their purpose is. NY has better matches so far for the castle images
They both prominently feature birds. NY also has better matches so far than Boston for possible image matches to the bird, but it’s purpose still mostly shrouded in mystery
They both feature a female faerie whose face looks a good bit like a prominent statue in the city (though the Columbus match is much more hotly debated than the statue of liberty). This may be the way we confirm the City in these images as they lack a clear building or state outline.
And in both, we haven’t been able to find good images matches in a defined area (at least in my view). They both just appear to lack Cleveland-quality image matches or near the dig location, for whatever reason that may be (maybe these puzzles work differently, or maybe the locations have changed too much over time, or maybe maybe we haven’t found a good enough location yet, or maybe we have the image/verses/cities mixed up).

Here’s another Brooklyn-confirming thing that I haven’t seen really discussed:
A decent number of people agree that the bottom of the woman’s dress is representative of the southern portion of the island of Manhattan. Anyone familiar with NYC knows that there are also the four outer boroughs: Queens, Brooklyn, Staten Island, and the Bronx. Look at the size and relative positions of the water droplets and gem around the bottom of the dress. Compare the sizes of the four outer boroughs.
The Bronx is the smallest (42.1 sq. mi.)
State Island is the next smallest (58.4 sq. mi.)
Queens is the largest (108.5 sq. mi.)
Brooklyn is the second largest (70.8 sq. mi.)
They each match up, comparatively, with the sizes of the droplets and gem, as well as their positions in regard to each other and Manhattan. As water drops: Bronx is on the top right, Staten on the top left, Queens on the bottom right. The gem matches up with Brooklyn, on the bottom left. Image 12 essentially has a map of all five boroughs of NYC.
Bonus: This might also tie into the verse. Manhattan is the smallest overall borough (22.8 sq. mi.) yet is represented as the largest (compared to the water droplets and gem). One might even say it is
giant
compared to them. And the woman’s dress does seem to change color as it goes down, from being an ivory white on top to a darker
grey
.

dosethree

… It’s striking how similar New York and the Boston puzzle seem to be:
They both have these castles in the images and it’s unclear what their purpose is. NY has better matches so far for the castle images
They both prominently feature birds. NY also has better matches so far than Boston for possible image matches to the bird, but it’s purpose still mostly shrouded in mystery.

Look closely at the “eagle”. Eventhough it has an eagle head it has a seabird body; like an albatross. They are known for very long distance flight into sea.
As I posted before Charles Lindbergh, Lone Eagle and spirit of St. Louis first solo nonstop transatlantic flight from Long Island, New York, to Paris, France.
Lindbergh took off in the Spirit from
Roosevelt
Airfield, Garden City, New York.
Remember BP’s nod to St. Louis.

Hi Kang. Thank you for your post. The aerial imagery provided of South Park is fantastic. Shows a nice clear “v” in 1980 right in front of Fort Hamilton HS (and anther one slightly north). Great information. Thank you for sharing.
Two conversations going on here:
The Red Bubbles: NYC I can see where your hesitation may lie. The “83/85 st.” is somewhat subjective but I have funny feeling that was JJP’s clue in the painting. Of course, I am biased because it fits my location. If you look at the lighter color bubbles (like pink, violet) versus the dark reds/oranges, there really does seem to be something there. Ishihara used a similar artistic technique to create his color plates to screen for red-green color deficiencies. I don’t think it is necessary to use a red filter to discern the “83/85 st.” but it may help to bring those colors out more.
Russian Orthodox Church: I think we may have to apply a little more art than science here. You have a historical building in Brooklyn with an almost exact match. I would argue it matches better than the Cleveland terminal tower depicted in the Cleveland painting. The outline looks to be drawn in perspective where the closer onion dome that lines the side (4 total) appears larger than the one in the background. With main large onion dome (with windows shown) in the middle. NYC what are you seeing that you don’t like as a match?
Idyl. Great observation BTW. Only furthers the Brooklyn location.
Of course, not any one of these clues, says this is the spot. However, the sum of the parts appears to be adding up.

Maybe it’s an actual window that has not been suggested…
Or maybe it’s the coordinates on the color plates that have been suggested…
Or maybe it’s both or neither.
Or maybe each one of us is supposed to be led by and dig at whatever and wherever makes sense to himself or herself…
Or maybe, just maybe, we should all be a little more color blind and, while all this oogling is fun, rely only on the black and white.

davinci4

Hi Kang. Thank you for your post. The aerial imagery provided of South Park is fantastic. Shows a nice clear “v” in 1980 right in front of Fort Hamilton HS (and anther one slightly north). Great information. Thank you for sharing.
Two conversations going on here:
The Red Bubbles: NYC I can see where your hesitation may lie. The “83/85 st.” is somewhat subjective but I have funny feeling that was JJP’s clue in the painting. Of course, I am biased because it fits my location. If you look at the lighter color bubbles (like pink, violet) versus the dark reds/oranges, there really does seem to be something there. Ishihara used a similar artistic technique to create his color plates to screen for red-green color deficiencies. I don’t think it is necessary to use a red filter to discern the “83/85 st.” but it may help to bring those colors out more.
Russian Orthodox Church: I think we may have to apply a little more art than science here. You have a historical building in Brooklyn with an almost exact match. I would argue it matches better than the Cleveland terminal tower depicted in the Cleveland painting. The outline looks to be drawn in perspective where the closer onion dome that lines the side (4 total) appears larger than the one in the background. With main large onion dome (with windows shown) in the middle. NYC what are you seeing that you don’t like as a match?
Idyl. Great observation BTW. Only furthers the Brooklyn location.
Of course, not any one of these clues, says this is the spot. However, the sum of the parts appears to be adding up.

https://imgur.com/a/27XSB9t
This is what I am talking about. It is not an onion dome and it is not on the Church on 12st.
What I am trying to say is that this is probably a link to the immigration and the story then it is a real place or building we would have to locate within NYC.
This is an exact match…
https://imgur.com/a/5ZPu5gI

Okay. I see what you are saying. Best case scenario it’s another confirmer for Brooklyn otherwise tying in the general immigration reference. ..
I am liking the northern part of South Shore Park. Now only if we could finalize it with “Him of Hard Word”. Maybe another question, who are the natives?

davinci4

Okay. I see what you are saying. Best case scenario it’s another confirmer for Brooklyn otherwise tying in the general immigration reference. ..
I am liking the northern part of South Shore Park. Now only if we could finalize it with “Him of Hard Word”. Maybe another question, who are the natives?

The natives would have to be the people of Brooklyn. I like the JFK theory but have no idea what 3 vols would be in that case. Rhapsodic man is more elusive as if it is truly Gershwin, that would lead me to believe the verse does not include an actual dig spot. If Gerhwin’s soil is all of Brooklyn.

Yes. I think much “north towards Isle B,” rhapsodic’s man’s soil will not point to anything specific other than Brooklyn. Isle of B at least tells us we need to be able to visualize the SOL …
Let’s say for arguments sake, there is a plaque in South Shore Park that we all missed with an inscription quoting Charles Dickens. While it helps support the location, its not going to yield a precise dig spot. Maybe the real only question now is where is the “v” ? I like the one in front Fort Hamilton HS. What other “v”s are people considering?

davinci4

Kang. Just curious. We have had some great discussion over the last two weeks on this thread. I am still not convinced we have got the correct spot either. Are you leaning towards one area?

davinci4

I am running under the assertion (hopefully) that “Him of Hard word” will pinpoint our final site.

I have a final area/feature. And a small dig site and specific dig spots. Recovery effort underway. Fingers crossed. Unfortunately I can’t say more at the moment.
I truly believe that some non-Chi/Cleve thinking is needed here – and that the things in my analysis document will also help.
In the near-future I will have either found it or exhausted all recovery strategies I can muster. At that point, I will post my interpretations for all to evaluate. If I fail, maybe there are some nuggets in there that will help someone smarter than me figure it out. (Or I’m entirely wrong and it’s a moot point). I make no claims.
This puzzle is a funny thing. It you make an assumption like that YOU WILL (right or wrong) find a Him of Hard word theory that will pinpoint a final site for you. Some people seem to get stuck at that spot at that point and bend everything else to fit. Not saying that’s what’s happening with you. It’s just a risk.
I try to not make assumptions of that sort, but rather try to let the clues lead me where BP wants me to go. NO idea if I’m succeeding, mind you!
Things being what they are with this puzzle, the only way to KNOW (really know) you”ve got it right is to dig one up. And no one’s done that in 15 years…

Hi All. Just a thought here. When looking at the parks where the other casks were recovered (Grant Park and Cultural Gardens), and some of the prevailing theories where current casks are buried (Lake Park, FOY, Elizabethan Gardens), Shore Park just seems like an odd location. Compared to other locations, it seems to lack the “The Secret vibe” (in terms of monuments, culture, aesthetics). Also, there are so many choices in NY or Brooklyn (Prospect, Sunset). I know that’s subjective but it’s just an odd feeling when you look at this area. I like it on paper (all the clues seem to point there) but it just doesn’t ‘feel’ right. I have tried to make these verses worth with other parks, as yet, they don’t seem to fit either.
For arguments sake, you could argue that Prospect is south of Blackwell’s Island, but how do you take the branch over the slender path? where is Hamilton? Yes, I suppose there is a Carroll street (?Christmas Carol). Just taking a step back for a moment.
just curious what others think of Shore Park.

davinci4

Hi All. Just a thought here. When looking at the parks where the other casks were recovered (Grant Park and Cultural Gardens), and some of the prevailing theories where current casks are buried (Lake Park, FOY, Elizabethan Gardens), Shore Park just seems like an odd location. Compared to other locations, it seems to lack the “The Secret vibe” (in terms of monuments, culture, aesthetics). Also, there are so many choices in NY or Brooklyn (Prospect, Sunset). I know that’s subjective but it’s just an odd feeling when you look at this area. I like it on paper (all the clues seem to point there) but it just doesn’t ‘feel’ right. I have tried to make these verses worth with other parks, as yet, they don’t seem to fit either.
For arguments sake, you could argue that Prospect is south of Blackwell’s Island, but how do you take the branch over the slender path? where is Hamilton? Yes, I suppose there is a Carroll street (?Christmas Carol). Just taking a step back for a moment.
just curious what others think of Shore Park.

I thought the same thing at one point. I kept in mind that one of the points BP was trying to make is that people should go out and enjoy these cities, the cultures, and the sights. When looking at Rockerfeller park and Grant park as well as the other parks in consideration, such as Golden Gate, I got the idea that these places have much to offer a casque hunter, even if they do not find one. Thought there was a theme there which would mean we are looking for a place with museums nearby, planetariums, zoo’s, ect. A tourist spot mostly and one that has a cultural theme that matches somewhere in the park.
Central park seems seems way to obvious. You can make a lot of things fit there as well. There are really good central park theories out there but they are a bit loose. If it is there, the biggest problem would be to dig it out. Of course you are going to encounter resistance here because of the trickled down story of BP sending an email to a user of the forum saying no casque is there, which I always felt a bit suspicious about. Then again,everything in this puzzle makes you second guess everything.
Prospect park is much of the same but I would say the central park theory is stronger or just more clever. We tried hard to make things fit in that park and it just never went anywhere promising.
NYC is a tough place for this type of hunt because there are so many historical landmarks and attractions that could fit the overall theme of hunt. Old Glory is not within the theme of a tourist attraction, although it still does have its rich history and attractions. But there are absolutely no certainties in this game. From what I have seen, from being at the site, and from our discussions here, I still say it is the site with the most promise and the better matches, so far. Obviously there are others who are convinced they have a solve and I sincerely hope they do and they dig it out soon.
I will say that Bay Ridge is a really out of the way location and odd compared to the two solves. Perhaps this was his idea on how to make this puzzle so much more difficult then the rest. Making the site the opposite of what you expect.

davinci4

just curious what others think of Shore Park.

You seem to be going through the standard stages of considering South Brooklyn. Haha. Everything you’ve discussed is why many of us liked and then abandoned the Bay Ridge area at some time. But with this hunt, I’ve found I keep crawling back to locations I considered and abandoned years ago.
I know I believed the “major culture, major park required” theory for a while and have spoken to others that shared that sentiment as well, but I really don’t think we know enough to impose that kind of restriction. And having worked pretty much every major park in Brooklyn, Staten Island, and Manhattan extensively, I’ve found that all we can really do is follow the clues.
I’d take some time and scan the i12 and v10 threads for more info as this has been discussed extensively.

not at this time, but I never bought into the Fort Hamilton thing.
So when are you going hunting, Matt?

idyl

That was a good read. The mention of the ruler was something that I hadn’t seen before, and works in concert with my own thoughts about this particular puzzle. Looking forward to my next dig attempt with that in mind.

I pm’d Pierard a while ago (not sure if he was off limits like the Palencars?) only to ask him what kind of ruler was used for that image. He saw the message but didn’t respond. I let it go at that. It seems to be drawn to scale as it’s measurement seems correct. A 24 inch ruler with inches on both sides isn’t a typical ruler. Maybe it was an artistic ruler, rather large though. Anyway, it looks to me like more than 22 steps are needed and that you need to loop around the fence.

Question for the board. When looking at the “v” in front of Fort Hamilton HS, what would you call “the middle”? Would you call the “v” the grass v in the middle of the concrete pathway or concrete pathway itself that extends the entire length? “The middle” would be different depending on what you are calling the v.

Delta

davinci4

Question for the board. When looking at the “v” in front of Fort Hamilton HS, what would you call “the middle”? Would you call the “v” the grass v in the middle of the concrete pathway or concrete pathway itself that extends the entire length? “The middle” would be different depending on what you are calling the v.

Since you are asking for opinions, while it is a V probably not the V.

I wonder why Leighanny didn’t mention the Menorah shape of the area.

maltedfalcon

Since you are asking for opinions, while it is a V probably not the V.

Do you have one in mind you would be willing to share?

davinci4

Do you have one in mind you would be willing to share?

not at this time, but I never bought into the Fort Hamilton thing.

Hi Malted. We are always looking for new insights. I can understand if you have another location in mind you don’t want to share. Just curious about your thoughts regarding Fort Hamilton HS location and why clues don’t seem to point there in your opinion. It’s always helpful to hear a fresh perspective on these threads.

Choice

I wonder why Leighanny didn’t mention the Menorah shape of the area.

It does have a nice shape but I think my theory is already long enough as is 🙂

NYCNative

I thought this is well, Merlin. Just could never make it fit into anything productive, Brooklyn or not.
How can we speculate what a common shape could be in reference to? There are just to many possibilities even when we use the strong clues we think we have. I think we can speculate all day on what it can be but I think it is one of the clues that will be found at the dig site and make sense.
I am some point would like to do some experiments with different color filters and the hard copy of the book, go old school. I am sure its been done before but I think the hope is that it would reveal something easy like numbers or letters. In considering the podcast interview with the photographer, it may just lead to another game of counting bubbles or separating them based on size. So while tried, I would like to try different methods with the results. Whatever is there, would probably be crucial but I don’t think it will be all we need.
We still have the mess of clues from the water. The waves and ripples and reflections. This is where we are all going to stare at the image again and make out things that probably are not there.
Obviously, we only have two solves that we can use as examples, although those puzzle are not the same beast as this one. But, if the idea is that every casque is in an area with ties to the immigration story of that puzzle, would it really be as easy and broad as saying something like Gershwin was Russian and he lived in Brooklyn, so close enough? Or would the actual spot have an undeniable Russian link to it? BP seemed to be really into the immigration theme for a reason. Hell, the entire book is dedicated to it, so hard to see why he would omit that crucial detail when picking a spot.
Thoughts?

NYC. The immigration tie could be a double edged sword. After reading Kang’s analysis of the book, it’s possible that hiding the cask in an area associated with the country of origin could be too much of a clue. For example, hiding the Boston cask in the North End. Still though most of the paintings don’t place that ‘extra emphasis’ on country of origin like NY and Cleveland. You still wonder if there is more here.

Glossiphoniidae

… in all fields.

We have made the path righteous
https://previews.123rf.com/images/herma … ation-.jpg

Reminds me of the Confucius quote for pointing finger!

Glossiphoniidae

Isn’t that the islanders logo?

The negative space (thanks Kang!) looks like Jersey Devils logo.

Hi Kang. Thank you for sharing that document. For others on this thread, please take a chance to review it. It is the most comprehensive review of the storyline in relationship to the puzzles I have read to date. One thought, your review of Bay Ridge and Norwegian immigration was excellent. Thinking Norwegian theme in NY would have tipped people off to Bay Ridge almost immediately, hence reason for not choosing it.
With regards to the painting, I was intrigued by the idea that the Russian Cathedral could represent something more. As I mentioned, the Greek references in the Cleveland painting not only served as on site markers but pointed to a specific area in the cultural gardens. I suppose searchers here come from two perspectives in trying to solve this hunt. Trying to take parts of images and match them to certain areas (‘image heavy’) and those that are more grounded in the verse that use image associations as ‘waymarks’ along the path. I have always adopted the latter approach because I do feel this hunt could be solved without any image confirmers at all, although they would bring far more confidence if present.
With regards to this painting, the Russian Cathedral and gray rectangle have yet to yield any significant clues with regards to Shore Park/South Brooklyn.
My question for the group is two-fold: are we looking in the right area? How much weight do we give the painting with regards to image confirmers? I happen to believe we are in the right area, and the painting yields minimal clues in comparison to other solutions in Cleveland and Chicago.

Choice

The negative space (thanks Kang!) looks like Jersey Devils logo.

Thanks for???

For the term negative space!

Can anyone tell me what the name of this building is or the function of it’s purpose? It is on the Corner of Washington and Empire.
Thanks!
https://ibb.co/Tm2qswf

https://www.brownstoner.com/architectur … boulevard/
Brooklyn Central Office, Bureau of Fire Communications

maltedfalcon

https://www.brownstoner.com/architecture/building-of-the-day-35-empire-boulevard/
Brooklyn Central Office, Bureau of Fire Communications

Thanks! Do you know if the communications tower was added to the grounds? Post 80’s or pre?

the tower looks smaller in 1980 but that could just be a bad photo
check yourself
https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer
and google earth pro

maltedfalcon

the tower looks smaller in 1980 but that could just be a bad photo
check yourself
https://www.historicaerials.com/viewer
and google earth pro

Great! Thanks!

I like to point a couple of minute inconsistencies in the window. It’s missing a couple of sections on top as if the frame is cracked/broken.
Also the smaller red and white panes seem to be shattered, disguised by bird’s wing and tail feathers.
Two possibilities I can think of:
1) There was a push to renovate Roosevelt Island in the 70s.
Strecker Memorial Laboratory has similar broken windows.
2) The missing/broken lines on top of the window frame could be a word play.
Broke line …

I am not convinced there are any ‘site specific’ confirmers in this painting. Only general clues to the area or clues that could help lead one to the site.

davinci4

I am not convinced there are any ‘site specific’ confirmers in this painting. Only general clues to the area or clues that could help lead one to the site.

pretty sure both the clock and the bird are site confirmers.

Hi Malted. Could you tell me which site you are thinking? is there a strong interpretation of the verse to support those confirmers?

davinci4

Hi Malted. Could you tell me which site you are thinking? is there a strong interpretation of the verse to support those confirmers?

hope to dig it soon so no and yes, otherwise I wouldn dig

No problem. ..NYC, have you visited Vinland Park recently or familiar with area?

davinci4

No problem. ..NYC, have you visited Vinland Park recently or familiar with area?

I am familiar with the area but I have not been to it in sometime.
What are you thinking?
Also, sent you your invite to the discord.

Just wondering if ‘anything of interest’ that I could be missing from google maps. Also trying to gauge where 22 steps east would be from each branch of that v that I like so much… thanks! Just got it.

davinci4

Just wondering if ‘anything of interest’ that I could be missing from google maps. Also trying to gauge where 22 steps east would be from each branch of that v that I like so much… thanks! Just got it.

I don’t think there is much in that area but the baseball field and playground. That entire area (Shore park) has very few landmarks or places that stand out.

Thanks for your civility and encouragement. Hard to come by on this thread.

NYCNative

Actually Leif Ericson park is right on Shore road and SOL is visible.
As far as the signs nearby part, I hold some reservations of how nearby the sign needs to be and if the sign in question is still there.
I am not sure what you mean by Brooklyn being Rhapsodic man?
Yes hopefully we can keep things organized and be forthcoming about our theories and ideas about this area.

NYC. Is the Verazzano visible anywhere from Leif Ericsson? Based on your observations, maybe Leif Ericsson belongs in a ‘possibly’ category between Shore Park (more likely) and the others (less likely).
Hi Idyl. As we discussed before, not counting on image confirmers for this puzzle. I threw those three out there as possibilities. I agree. The archway has a nice tie in but not very specific for one location. But I happen to agree with NYC’s interpretation given its proximity to our proposed location.
Perhaps a slightly more specific one is the Roman numeral clock on the front of Fort Hamilton HS (again not an exact match, and not very unique). Really focusing on the verses here given the lack detailed images in the painting.

davinci4

NYC. Is the Verazzano visible anywhere from Leif Ericsson? Based on your observations, maybe Leif Ericsson belongs in a ‘possibly’ category between Shore Park (more likely) and the others (less likely).
Hi Idyl. As we discussed before, not counting on image confirmers for this puzzle. I threw those three out there as possibilities. I agree. The archway has a nice tie in but not very specific for one location. But I happen to agree with NYC’s interpretation given its proximity to our proposed location.
Perhaps a slightly more specific one is the Roman numeral clock on the front of Fort Hamilton HS (again not an exact match, and not very unique). Really focusing on the verses here given the lack detailed images in the painting.

The Verrazzano is visible anywhere in that area/neighborhood.

One neat thing about Leif Ericsson is that the west end forms a “v” with two branches of Shore Road.

Another good suggestion I got was to use the simple keywords in the Japanese version of the verse to help clear out all the words that get over analyzed for nothing.

Hey all,
Starting this thread to specifically focus on the possibility of South Brooklyn being the dig site. The logic behind the location comes from the image match of the face of SOL in image 12 accompanied by the line in Verse 10 “Or gaze north toward the isle. of B. We are also going by the assumption the the dig site would be near the riverside. Another potential solve is that the Verrazzano bridge is at play here as well. Perhaps it is the arm that extends over the slender path ( Narrows), which seems to make a lot of sense and still keeps us in South Brooklyn. More so, the area is filled with references to A. Hamilton, if indeed he is the indies native that is spoken about in the verse.
Possible parks include those on Shore Rd., Leif Ericson park and possibly Sunset park (which needs more research). Owl’s head and JPJ has been extensively researched without much promise. Prospect park has also been researched and has not presented any potential solves/theories.
We have boots on the ground presently at this site. We would need to do more research and see what has changed in the area since the casque was buried. We also would hope to find someone who fits the “him of hard word” title.
If I have missed something, please enlighten me and us. If you have another theory, in another location, I ask that you post it on the other threads that are more broad on this topic of discussion. This thread is to specifically go over the South Brooklyn theory alone!

To review thus far, focusing in southwest Brooklyn based upon these clues from verse:
1) location is south of SOL (Bedloe’s Isle)
2) location is in Brooklyn (rhapsodic man)
3) location near the shore (where one would hear a “whirring sound” from bicycles or ferries)
Furthermore:
3) location has a ‘nearby’ reference “sign” to Alexander Hamilton
4) Verrazano and SOL visible from location
Listing parks here based on our exclusion criteria
More likely:
1) South Shore
Less likely:
1) JPJ (SOL not visible)
2) Owls Head (no Hamilton reference)
3) Leif Ericsson (not near shore, SOL not visible)
4) Sunset Park (no Hamilton reference, not near shore)
5) McKinley (not near shore, SOL not visible)
Look good so far?
NYC. I agree. It’s worth double checking Sunset and Owls Head for Hamilton reference. Anyone have any?
BTW. Love the way this post is organized by verse/image/geographic location. Hopefully will be a model that members can use on this forum. Helps to get people with similar location ideas together.

Actually Leif Ericson park is right on Shore road and SOL is visible.
As far as the signs nearby part, I hold some reservations of how nearby the sign needs to be and if the sign in question is still there.
I am not sure what you mean by Brooklyn being Rhapsodic man?
Yes hopefully we can keep things organized and be forthcoming about our theories and ideas about this area.