Unknown

Unknown:
This is a map of the Fort Raleigh NHS as it was in 1982. The red arrow at bottom indicates the park entrance road. It leads to a traffic circle and then a square shaped parking lot. This may be the “After circle and square” referenced in the verse. #1 indicates the location of a Way Side Sign with two maps on it. One of Fort Raleigh, the other James Town. This sign may be the “With two maps” line in the verse. The “In July and August” line, in the verse, has been linked to a monument to Virginia Dare placed in 1896 (#2 on this map). However, the monument is currently at #3 on the map. Furthermore, it may have been in another location in 1982. (More work to do here.) It seems to me that if one entered the “Dark forest” via the park entance; and after passing through the traffic “circle” and parking in the “square” parking area; “A path beckons” in the northwest corner of the lot. Where after a few yards of walking the “two maps” are found. Perhaps this is the route “To mica and driftwood”.

I recently got in contact with a volunteer at Fort Raleigh (hi!) who’s interested in looking for the casque, and I noticed he’s been updating the Wiki…

I know I didn’t do the best job explaining it, but if you haven’t seen my propsed dig for Image 11, go check it out. PM me if you have questions. I believe with a lot of help I was able to find the starting location to #11 and within a few months believe I have the entire solution. I am completely, 100% confident in the park. There are a number of unique matches that have been confirmed existed in 1981, multiple photograph level matches, statue positioning matches, and it culminates in a spot on the ground depicted in the image.
I believe that’s the best way to solve them, renovater is correct. They’re so, so hard to pick up “in the middle” because the verses are so vague, many of the lines we obsess over only make sense in context of the start location. You can spend months chasing down things that match the verse perfectly! Check out Cambridge Common and its amazing similarities to verse 3 :\
But I can prove the starting location. I don’t think this puzzle starts at the Wright Brothers Memorial, personally. There is a better, more exact location, especially if you’re meant to drive across the bridge? Look at the Cleveland puzzle – without the Polaroid start location you’d never have found it, everyone was pretty sure it was in PA. You can chase down the verses anywhere. Somewhere in this image are enough clues to get you to a specific spot in 1981.

Unknown

Unknown:
and in some cases have no obvious identifier at all.

With all due respect, I have a hard time believing that Preiss would guide us, clearly and unambiguously, for over 20 miles, drop you off at the entrance to Fort Raleigh only to say, “somewhere in here lies the treasure. Good luck.”. The verse tells us that there is a path to (or toward) the beach. In this case, there are several (and they don’t have individual names as far as I can tell) so there may be a bit of trial and error involved in finding the right one. But the paths are short, and some even intersect, so the walk is pleasant (if you have bug spray) and the investment is minimal. You’ll know you are on the right one when you find the LToFSS, unless of course, it’s no longer there. But Preiss was definitely referring to something, and he expected that when you saw that same something, you would know that you were there.
Chicago gives us a dig spot, only corrupted by the fact that a few of the marker trees were gone by the time the Chicago group found the treasure ground. Cleveland’s directions are even more precise in that regard, again only corrupted by the honest confusion between left and right. Milwaukee’s is the most exact of the three, but like Chicago, the marker tree is gone. And it’s true for Houston (center of four alike) and Florida (at the base of a tall tree) as well. Why should we think that this one, or any of the other six weren’t designed in essentially the same way?

Unknown

Unknown:
I don’t think this puzzle starts at the Wright Brothers Memorial, personally. There is a better, more exact location, especially if you’re meant to drive across the bridge?

No need to be coy on this detail Xieish. Having a better starting point might shed some light on the puzzles as a whole, but I can pretty much guarantee that it will do nothing to resolve the final resting place of the casque. Personally, I think it’s the Wright Memorial. It’s consistent with the methodology, and other than Jockey’s Ridge a few miles to the south, it’s the only thing of distinction on that whole stretch of sand.

Xieish

…many of the lines we obsess over only make sense in context of the start location.

Xieish that line is extremely important. Some of the clues you can only see (and hear) from the perspective of standing there on the street, sidewalk, beach, etc…
I’d be interested in hearing your start point if you want to hypothesize. I’ve been to Roanoke as well, and I’m also in the camp of whatever was there is probably gone/changed, so we may not be at the final spot at all.

I’ve been to the site twice (we spend a week on the Outer Banks every summer) and I still have no idea what this line could possibly refer to. I’ve explored all the logical places ( Elizabethan Gardens, Water Gate, Waterside Theater) as well as some illogical places (beach, Fort Raleigh), and have pretty much come to the conclusion that whatever Preiss meant by LToFSS, it’s gone. And like the trees in Chicago, and the tree in Milwaukee for that matter, that simple fact is what’s making this last clue so difficult and obscure. In short, we are in the right cemetery, but we are trying to find a grave that is missing its headstone (I know, no casques are actually in cemeteries, but as an analogy, it works pretty well if I say so myself).
Knowing where to stop and dig was never intended to be the problem. The real problem, and the key to the whole thing, was knowing where to start. From there, all you had to do was follow the verse, and Preiss would lead you right to a dig spot, whether it was 20 miles from the first clue to the last (as is the case for this puzzle), 2 miles (as in Milwaukee) or 20 feet (as I suspect is the case in Florida).

Not sure about that. BP seems to have made identifying the precise dig spot extremely difficult, to the extent that one of the only two casques unearthed needed his help to pinpoint and the other took a fair bit of exploration. The remaining verses tend to feature obscure and cryptic identifiers like a tall proud fifth, bar that binds, etc., and in some cases have no obvious identifier at all.

OK, been a couple months for this thread but came acroos something interesting in Fort Raliegh, Anyone notice the painting at the Visitor’s Center?  Check out the armor! Schroll down.  Need a better pic, I think.
http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl= … D%26sa%3DN

great show me a picture of this doc in 1981.

maltedfalcon

great show me a picture of this doc in 1981.

The dock is recent.  I think the lift was anchored to a different spot before.  Very hard to find photos of this area.

Euhirudinea

Not for nothing, but I really wonder just how much dirt and sand has been moved in the pursuit of these stupid things? My guess is a whole lot more than Preiss intended when he designed the puzzles.

“… A little digging is the task.”

four2, good to see you have your debate hat on. That I suggest driving 30 minutes beyond the point where you see “a road that leads to dark forest,” doesn’t justify the assumption that we can continue widening the search net. The visual information that is a pea and a spoon would make a good case for a continuation to the Pea Island area after passing Roanoke, but it could be argued that searches coming from the south would pass Pea Island on their way to Roanoke just as searches coming from the north would pass “two friends of octave” on their way to the Roanoke. It’s just not definite in my mind that this puzzle works either way to guide us directly to Roanoke proper.

erexere

four2, good to see you have your debate hat on. That I suggest driving 30 minutes beyond the point where you see “a road that leads to dark forest,” doesn’t justify the assumption that we can continue widening the search net. The visual information that is a pea and a spoon would make a good case for a continuation to the Pea Island area after passing Roanoke, but it could be argued that searches coming from the south would pass Pea Island on their way to Roanoke just as searches coming from the north would pass “two friends of octave” on their way to the Roanoke. It’s just not definite in my mind that this puzzle works either way to guide us directly to Roanoke proper.

You skirted the questions, E.
Let’s say that I believe it’s there, but renovator thinks it’s in Nags Head, and tjgray thinks it’s at Fort Raleigh. We all have verse and image confirmers. Who’s right? Do you think that Preiss meant for us not to know? Do we need to go to each and every possible location and look to see if we see a final image confirmer (e.g. fence and fixture, the greek wall)?

If I can just chime in, since we’re live at the moment.
What about “Look north at the wing”.
AT the wing. Not “toward” the wing like we do with the Isle of B.
Preiss specifically says you can see “the wing” and then gives a direct quote from the Wright Bros. monument, which is a wing.
To me, this is pretty solid that wherever the cask is buried, you can look north and directly see the Wright Bros. monument. Apparently this point is in dispute, but I don’t understand how.
Any other concoction of answers to that point in the verse is lost on me. We have the monument, we have a direct quote from the monument. The monument is a wing, and he gives us the quote to hammer home that he is talking about that specific monument that you can see from the spot where the cask is buried.

Merlot Brougham

If I can just chime in, since we’re live at the moment.
What about “Look north at the wing”.
AT the wing. Not “toward” the wing like we do with the Isle of B.
Preiss specifically says you can see “the wing” and then gives a direct quote from the Wright Bros. monument, which is a wing.
To me, this is pretty solid that wherever the cask is buried, you can look north and directly see the Wright Bros. monument. Apparently this point is in dispute, but I don’t understand how.
Any other concoction of answers to that point in the verse is lost on me. We have the monument, we have a direct quote from the monument. The monument is a wing, and he gives us the quote to hammer home that he is talking about that specific monument that you can see from the spot where the cask is buried.

First off, it ain’t at the wing.
Secondly, don’t focus on THIS puzzle, or THAT solution… focus on the questions as they relate to the puzzles as a whole.

Glossiphoniidae

First off, it ain’t at the wing.
Secondly, don’t focus on THIS puzzle, or THAT solution… focus on the questions as they relate to the puzzles as a whole.

I’m sorry, I’m missing your point, I guess. I wasn’t suggesting it was buried in the immediate vicinity of the Wright Bros monument (just within line of sight – thus eliminating anything that more than a few hundred rods away from the wright bros. monument), or did I quote the verse wrong?

Whether a single person has several options in mind or several people each have one location that meets their interpretation, I dont see a reason to propose Preiss had the intent to lead people in several directions. I cantspeak for your or anyone else, but as I weigh the options, I find the particulars of the First Flight event have something in common with the Life Saving Stations and events of the Mirlo Rescue at Chicamacomico (Rodanthe) at least align with England enough that maybe the Fair Folk saw a good setup for hiding their garnet.

erexere

Whether a single person has several options in mind or several people each have one location that meets their interpretation, I dont see a reason to propose Preiss had the intent to lead people in several directions. I cantspeak for your or anyone else, but as I weigh the options, I find the particulars of the First Flight event have something in common with the Life Saving Stations and events of the Mirlo Rescue at Chicamacomico (Rodanthe) at least align with England enough that maybe the Fair Folk saw a good setup for hiding their garnet.

But Preiss specifically says you can look at the wing when you are digging up the cask and then immediately follows it up with a direct quote from the Wright Bros. monument. You disagree with this interpretation that the wing is the Wright Brother’s monument?

erexere

Whether a single person has several options in mind or several people each have one location that meets their interpretation, I dont see a reason to propose Preiss had the intent to lead people in several directions. I cantspeak for your or anyone else, but as I weigh the options, I find the particulars of the First Flight event have something in common with the Life Saving Stations and events of the Mirlo Rescue at Chicamacomico (Rodanthe) at least align with England enough that maybe the Fair Folk saw a good setup for hiding their garnet.

And other people have other opinions that are equally as backed-up and plausible. Again, are we supposed to go to every possible location and dig? Which theory is better? Is that subjective?

Regarding “Look north at the wing” I’m not sure how there could be any controversy. Multiple lines of evidence lead to Roanoke Island as the site, specifically the northern shore, where one may literally look north and see the Wright Brothers memorial. Can we at least agree on that??

Merlot Brougham

But Preiss specifically says you can look at the wing when you are digging up the cask and then immediately follows it up with a direct quote from the Wright Bros. monument. You disagree with this interpretation that the wing is the Wright Brother’s monument?

Merlot Brougham

I’m sorry, I’m missing your point, I guess. I wasn’t suggesting it was buried in the immediate vicinity of the Wright Bros monument, or did I quote the verse wrong?

What if I do disagree? Who’s right?
Again, forget a solution, forget your solution, forget your INTERPRETATION… ask yourself those questions above. Rinse and repeat for any one of the secret puzzles.
We all know that these verse and images can work ANYWHERE, and we can all justify them being ANYWHERE. Are we supposed to dig EVERYWHERE until we find one?

forest_blight

Regarding “Look north at the wing” I’m not sure how there could be any controversy. Multiple lines of evidence lead to Roanoke Island as the site, specifically the northern shore, where one may literally look north and see the Wright Brothers memorial. Can we at least agree on that??

That is exactly what I am saying, yes. Thank you.

Merlot, et al. I dont think the wing is the Wright Monument.
I think we “look north” and we are standing “at the wing” of the Wreck Pole, which is a concept replica of a ships mast. The mast arms are also wings. “Wing-to-wing” for anyone here with sailing experience. I’ve had little, so correct me if I’m wrong.

Glossiphoniidae

What if I do disagree? Who’s right?

Glossiphoniidae

Again, forget a solution, forget your solution, forget your INTERPRETATION… ask yourself those questions above. Rinse and repeat for any one of the secret puzzles.
We all know that these verse and images can work ANYWHERE, and we can all justify them being ANYWHERE. Are we supposed to dig EVERYWHERE until we find one?

I’d like to think I give everyone a fair shake when they propose an opinion, particularly those who are doing so with all of the available information, and I know that’s a task given the amount of stuff being bandied about out there. To directly answer your question absolutely literally, of course nobody is right until we dig up a cask or Preiss shows up at my “The Secret” seance and we hold his feet to the fire.
I never suggested that. Seems pretty foolish to me.

forest_blight

Regarding “Look north at the wing” I’m not sure how there could be any controversy. Multiple lines of evidence lead to Roanoke Island as the site, specifically the northern shore, where one may literally look north and see the Wright Brothers memorial. Can we at least agree on that??

No, we can’t. And I can give you a hundred reasons why and show you at least 5 different wings to be digging at, of various varieties. THAT’S my point. Which is right? How do you know? You might have more evidence that you interpreted, but do you know you are right?

Well obviously you can’t KNOW, but keeping all avenues open as possibilities would be the height of folly. This one seems really obvious, since Roanoke Island is, you know, IN THE PAINTING.

Unknown

Unknown:
I never suggested that. Seems pretty foolish to me.

E is in Oregon… there is still talk about which verse goes with which image… I am not foolish.

erexere

Merlot, et al. I dont think the wing is the Wright Monument.
I think we “look north” and we are standing “at the wing” of the Wreck Pole, which is a concept replica of a ships mast. The mast arms are also wings. “Wing-to-wing” for anyone here with sailing experience. I’ve had little, so correct me if I’m wrong.

Desperation is a smelly cologne.
C’mon, that explanation is total poo-poo, dude. “Look north at the wing” is one single line in the verse and clearly ties in with the other Wright Bros reference(s) in the verse.
We will have to fundamentally disagree on the above point.

forest_blight

Well obviously you can’t KNOW…

forest_blight

… but keeping all avenues open as possibilities would be the height of folly. This one seems really obvious, since Roanoke Island is, you know, IN THE PAINTING.

Can you not? Why not?
Forget Roanoke… Look at my original questions…

Glossiphoniidae

there is still talk about which verse goes with which image… I am not foolish.

I don’t know whether or not you’re talking about some previous posts I made where I suggested I was open to playing with some verse matchups a little bit, but that was some time ago.

Merlot Brougham

C’mon, that explanation is total poo-poo, dude.

Why is your solution, or any solution for that matter, better? Cause it is a more accepted opinion of how to interpret the clues? Do you have more subjective images matches than E? Do you have a more elegant interpretation of the verse?
Try this MB… which park is the Roanoke casque in? You sure?

Merlot Brougham

I don’t know whether or not you’re talking about some previous posts I made where I suggested I was open to playing with some verse matchups a little bit, but that was some time ago.

Why did you stop?

Glossiphoniidae

Why did you stop?

Did you settle on some cause you were tired… and maybe you’ll just switch em up a bit later when/if the ones you are using don’t pan out?

1977 news article reporting Carolista Baum’s help in preserving the Chicamacomico Life Saving Station that four21thrasher drew a penis on,
https://news.google.com/newspapers?nid= … 2780&hl=en

I see what you are trying to do here Eric, and while I admire your tenacity, you are ignoring some pretty obvious connections that point to Roanoke, including “the land by the window”, and “Dark Forest”. Once again, and IMO, you are ignoring the simple and direct, for the complicated and obscure, to your detriment.

forest_blight

Am I the only one who sees this? It’s from a bench in the Elizabethan Gardens. And not a small detail, either – it’s the primary image.
That might work, but Carolista Baum is a woman, not a man. And “ride” implies a vehicle or road of some sort named for Baum (not Carolista), like the bridge or the ferry (both named Baum).

Sorry renovator, not true. There is an accumulation of information only and how it yoelds to one perspective or another is something for us to consider as we weigh those facts. If you would enter the discussion and do better to make your own perspective understood, then maybe I’d understand your objections, otherwise you and several others around here may as well be making empty claims. I am not ignoring the details that maybe are pointing to Roanoke. I’m clarifying that saying “there is a road that leads to dark forest” isnt the same as saying “take that road”. I am practicing a simple act of raising doubt and then supplying an alternative for anyone to consider. I am not trying to misdirect.
How about you work on the puzzles with us? I do appreciate your attention to my work and I’m sorry if you dont agree.
Okay, I forgot that “search is my friend”. Kato and fblight had mentioned Carolista Baum already…a decade ago!
That symbol of the cross on the bench is really a fantastic find. Good job!
On the point that Carolista is not a “man of oz”, I think thats not enough to rule her out. I think there are some indications that would lead us to the “Munchkins”.
1) octave is not capitalized as it should be as we feel compelled to consider Octave Chanute, otherwise we might consider the basic span of notes from Big C to Little C,
2) oz is also not capitalized as it compells us to consider the book author’s name: Baum, otherwise we might consider the abbreviated form of ounce, a smallish unit of weight,
3) the torso of armor, legs replaced by a pedestal,
4) the Munchkins were portrayed by Little People and the name Midgett is historically significant to the Roanoke area.
The hints about little things in contrast to bigger things might be part of the process needed to arrive at the Midgett’s famous rescue of England’s people aboard the Mirlo.

Unknown

Unknown:
There is an accumulation of information only and how it yoelds to one perspective or another is something for us to consider as we weigh those facts.

Absolutely correct. And as I have said many time, I prefer the simple and direct. The “two friends of octave” are the Wright Brothers. The “man of oz” is Baum. “the land near the window” is the map of Roanoke in the Image. “Dark Forest” is the area in and around Fort Raleigh, where the Lost Colony is said to have disappeared. You don’t need to do any research to know the above is true, just like you didn’t need to do any research to solve the Cleveland and Chicago puzzles. Most of the relevant information is either common sense, common knowledge, or appears on the numerous brochures that one can get at the two National Parks in the area today, and in 1981. The rest was meant to be discovered by actually going there and walking around, which I have now done 6 times. Unfortunately, the changes to the area complicate the last and most critical step somewhat, but not to the point of making the puzzle unsolvable, or so I choose to believe, since I will be there at the end of this month for visit #7.

Actually, “dark forest” are just two words in a verse and we don’t absolutely know how they apply, so we may ask questions and research wherever necessary. I dont believe anyone working these puzzles would confess research isnt necessary. I don’t really follow the retrospective simplicity that would represent Chicago and Cleveland. Yes they were solved to the point of digging up a casque, but it took hard work and lots of intermittent failure.
I dont see whats wrong with allowing the possibility after passing the Wright monument and heading south on the main coastal roadway that turning off onto the road to Roanoke could be one of those intermittent failures.
I think we are all guilty of losing objectivity. Lots of people here have helped me recognize that. So lets take a little more in and ask more questions. What is the best explanation about the lower-caseness of some words? Was Preiss just being careless?

Unknown

Unknown:
I dont believe anyone working these puzzles would confess research isnt necessary.

That’s true…today. But only because in many cases, we are trying to recreate conditions as they existed when the puzzle was new, and the landmarks were fresh. Was there something that could be described as “last touched or first seen standing” at the overlook in the past? Was it something that someone could dig under? And since it is obviously gone today, is it possible that its removal (assuming that it was ever there) also destroyed the casque? These are things that are worthy of research IMO, and I think most would agree with my assessment.

erexere

There is an accumulation of information only and how it yoelds to one perspective or another is something for us to consider as we weigh those facts.

In all seriousness, I have a few direct question for you, erexere. Others, including tjgray
, may want to ask themselves the same questions…
If the casque
could
be at Fort Raleigh due to the verse clues, or it
could
be at Elizabethan Gardens due to the image clues, or it
could
be at the lifesaving station due to whatever clues you want to present… or it could
reasonably
and
plausibly
be at
many
other locations (e.g., why not drive another 30 minutes down the highway past the lifesaving station to another image/verse-related match, or another 30 minutes, or another 30 minutes)… then how are we supposed to solve the puzzle? Dig all the possible locations?
Doesn’t that concern you? I mean, say I like your theory (even though I drew a penis on it… and pubes… and a little squirt). Why is it any better than a Fort Raleigh or Elizabethan Gardens theory? What makes one theory more plausible than another if everything is subjectively equal and contains image and verse play? If we play by those rules, why can’t the “Roanoke” casque be in Oregon… or can it be?

Unknown

Unknown:
Dig all the possible locations?

Not for nothing, but I really wonder just how much dirt and sand has been moved in the pursuit of these stupid things? My guess is a whole lot more than Preiss intended when he designed the puzzles.

Nice find cw0909; don’t remember seeing that before.

some interesting reading, and maps
Cultural Landscapes Inventory–Fort Raleigh National Historic Site (2010)
https://archive.org/stream/culturalland … 2/mode/2up
does anyone think about, andy griffith in the img or V, LOL
http://tinyurl.com/mbd4khr

Anyone here have a copy of Don Quixote on hand?
I picked up a 1957 copy and read several parts.  I can’t shake the feeling that it’s somehow a reference point for this image and verse 11.
It really started to hit home when I saw the Mirlo Beach sign and the words “Dare to dream the impossible dream” welcoming people to Rodanthe.
Ahh yes, I remember now, the first sentence I introduces Don Quixote as a scarecrow of a man.  Not too shabby as an Oz type correlation.
Another nice connection might be to the 1939 film which has that nice Scarecrow diddy about “you could be another Lincoln…,” but more importantly the end of the film reveals Dorothy had been knocked out and had only been dreaming of Oz.  Perhaps Oz is the impossible dream.

just art

in my humble opinion, the fingers are making a 9 and a 1, signifying state road 91, that splits boston in half, sort of like the picture has two halves that should look symmetric, but arent.  i scoured all of Boston and couldnt come up with anything, but as i found out this weekend in Chicago, these things are tucked away into places that are not out in the open type places.  true, the chicago one was in a HUGE park, but the actual site where it was buried is kind of secluded, and im willing to bet, rarely has people around it.  and by the looks of the pics from Cleveland, the casque was found behind the wall, a place that im sure not too many people actually look at or walk around.

Very interesting story CW.  I really love this section…
“In 2000 National Park Service archaeologists using ground-penetrating radar discovered rectangular-shaped objects buried beneath several feet of sand. (Park Service staff did not excavate the objects, but suspect they could be related to Hariot’s work.)” . . .
. . . or perhaps they could be related to Preiss’ work…
Maybe we need to locate this spot…

I dont see the red thingy in the vine,
but I do see the base below the red thingy here.
http://news.webshots.com/photo/28274447 … 6770IvZVsU

Noticed this image of the “dancing medicine man of the lost colony”
http://news.webshots.com/photo/22990844 … 6770HjIxeT
and was wondering if there could be other pictures of him in different poses.
perhaps one matches the little guy hanging from the bubble.

maltedfalcon

Noticed this image of the “dancing medicine man of the lost colony”
http://news.webshots.com/photo/22990844 … 6770HjIxeT
and was wondering if there could be other pictures of him in different poses.
perhaps one matches the little guy hanging from the bubble.

there are a couple of more interesting pics in that album
this one reminds me of the red thing at the bottom of the metal guy
http://news.webshots.com/photo/25633102 … 6770aKoKXk
this is a good shot of the theater
http://news.webshots.com/photo/20426078 … 6770HRBdVh

It’s one of the most historic stretches of beach in the Americas, very archaeologically important and vulnerable to erosion. Expect a huge fine if they catch you with a shovel.

i’d never heard that Raleigh was called “the girdle of Elizabeth” . that was interesting.
here’s a couple of pics i liked when i was reading about the gardens, the lost colony and ft. raleigh
i thought this picture of chief wingina atop the ceremonial pole looked like our guy:
http://www.outerbanks.com/lostcolony/history/
i have a better picture but the address was so long,
this looks like part on the arms:
http://flickr.com/photos/gtstuff/461763 … 059739991/
http://flickr.com/photos/donadams/20077 … 990519774/
i think of water when i read “last touched or first seen” and this vessel had the same outline as pic:
http://flickr.com/photos/donadams/19909 … 990519774/
but it could just mean “waterside theater” where the play is
the symbol?
http://flickr.com/photos/pence/563150588/
the oval:
http://flickr.com/photos/cocospadilla/1 … 067614466/
her dress is shaped like a bell:
http://flickr.com/photos/cocospadilla/1 … 067614466/
does this shield have the shape of the belt part of the armor?
http://flickr.com/photos/fallingstar/71 … 646893187/
(this isn’t me
, but i thought it was interesting that there is something behind the theater)
http://flickr.com/photos/viciousbits/147209281/
is it just me or does the arch in the image look like it is more of a point than an oval?
and of course i have to play with words, so if i put “wing and dig” together, i think of chief wingina

look at the designs below the nostrils… they are different, I think that means something…
-regulus

They could mean something, but to be honest, I think they play into “artistic license” a bit with the stylization of the armor… remember that during and after Elizabethan times (hint hint) that armor was not meant to be functional anymore– they sort of built a statue out of the pieces (and in most cases, the pieces were form entirely different suits of armor).  Faceplates, as such, would have contained stylish, if not functional, breathing vents… Gauntlets generally had hooks on them to either attach swords so they wouldn’t be dropped, or to hang them from special hangers in the belt region when not in use.  The hook itself looks like a disengorged claw or talon of some kind, and for some reason, has a keyring that is more appropo to a jailer.  The fact that the armor is golden and/or decorative may imply a nobleman of some sort.  Or a “Sir” as in Sir Walter Raleigh, for instance. I believe he was a “knight of the Girdle” to Elizabeth, or something to that effect.  The red skirt is something you see more on earlier dress, like in Roman times–In fact, the armor itself is stylized enough to be that of a gladiator, rather than a cavalier or skirmisher.

regulus

look at the designs below the nostrils… they are different, I think that means something…
-regulus

Hey Reg,  Here’s a link with many many pages of different symbols.  This page is an example.  A Village?
http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/2623.html
and another:
http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/2637.html

isn’t there a “village” on roanoke?  like something named (e.g.) village?
-regulus

not a village but a Lost Colony.

A small colony or two might come close to that definition…

Wilhouse said you could borrow this Boogie:

Wup-pee!  Who wants to help knock down a bridge?

I do, for one… If I had the chance in, say, 1979 to make every town only have ONE goshdarned bridge, dagummit I would!

I may very well be wasting my time on these…again.  But here is another interesting symbol.
http://www.symbols.com/encyclopedia/26/2629.html

My mistake– he was a “Knight of the GARTER,” which in england is a highly prestigious Knighthood only enjoyed by 24 people at a time (not counting royalty)… Interestingly enough, their old crest depicts A circled cross similar to the one on the chest of the Painting…  That ceremonial pole bit is based EXACTLY off of this painting:

Why are there bells in P3? And why are there 3 of them? Here is one theory. There are three “Bells Islands” off the coast of North Carolina. One is near the southern end of Core/Pamlico Sound at 34.73194N, 76.50083W.
Another is further north, at  36°25’20.36″N, 75°58’8.12″W.
The third is right next to Roanoke Island, at 35.88028N, 75.60861W:
Actually, there are 4, if you count “Little Bell Island” at 36.41194N, 75.96111W.
(All these coordinates can be pasted directly into Google Earth.)

That is a pretty good assumption…  I like it as a reference to aircraft manufacturers too, except that Bell makes helicopters…  Which COULD be wingless birds born of ancient dreams of flight, since DaVinci did illustrate them, and they are mentioned vaguely in the bible…

Unknown

Unknown:
So, don’t any of you lot speak American Sign Language?  Anyone?
Shawn

Alas, no–but that doesn’t mean I think you’re off track.  🙂

CK, where the heck did you find the coordinates?  I can’t see them anywhere.  Again, I hope you are right on this one too.  Indiana is a lot closer to Kansas then Roanoke.

Bump for CK.

What does that mean—bump for CK?
ck

shecrab

What does that mean—bump for CK?
ck

Moving an older thread up to the top of the list for
easier referencing.

I think Trohn is drawing your attention to the fact that we already have a forum topic for Image 3, so there is no need to add yet another forum topic to the proliferation of forum topics. We’ve been trying to minimize the number of new topics to keep the forum manageable.

Found something new to me. A plus sign below the spoon next to the tea bag. Spoon plus tea???

MrSeabass

I can only view the forum on my phone. Desktop still gives me a 500 error.

Euhirudinea

Back when the book came out, this eventuality was considered, and there was an option if you found yourself in this situation:
“You may also send an inquiry if you believe you have determined the location of a treasure but are unable to explore it in person.”
I think finding that your spot has been inextricably altered by man or nature qualifies, since it would prevent you from “exploring”. However, Preiss himself let it be known to multiple people back in 2004-2005 that this option was no longer relevant. So by the rules in place today, there really is no difference at all.

Still loving those Elizabethan Garden potential matches. Is there somewhere in the map that wouldn’t technically be in the gardens, like a footpath leading up to them or something?
I had the same issue. I had to google “quest 4 treasure secret forum” and then click the link.
I think the error is it logged everyone out, but the redirect isn’t happening on some pages.
Well, technically it legally still was a relevant option. One can’t say, “buy my book and I’ll reveal $ treasure to you if you fulfill this requirement,” then say “whoops, now that you’ve bought my book I’m no longer going to do that.” It’s classic bait-and-switch. But now that the rights were transferred without solutions, obligations probably get murky.
However, I just think BP knew that people weren’t going to be so weird as to file a lawsuit over a $1,000 prize from 20+ years ago, and kind of wanted this to go away (without having to, you know, return the money he made from the book). Most people didn’t want to know the answer straight out, just to know when it had been destroyed like possibly with the children’s zoo.
Still wish he would’ve shown a little more initiative in tracking down those missing solves, so we could know when one had been destroyed.

(glad to have the forum back online)
Where you say the symbol on the right shoulder is “soda” I would disagree. Yours has straight lines (like II or 11 as you said), but the armor has outwardly bending lines. I remember someone pointing out a long time ago that a map icon meaning “bridge” was a closer match (try a google image search using “map symbol bridge” terms). Maybe it could mean footpath somewhere as well.

MrSeabass

I can only view the forum on my phone. Desktop still gives me a 500 error.

and I don’t have a phone, but i’ve viewing this on my destop without trouble. (I’m on an older version of Firefox, if that’s relevant) … You could try changing the URL by either adding or removing the ‘www’ portion.

if you flip this image vertically, and look at the oval shape (spotlighted part) over the skirt now, the one skirt shadow looks like one of the huts on the stage, and the flat piece on  the round pedestal shows the skyline and tree line like in this image:
http://www.sailblogs.com/member/colehor … sgID=96816

digger, try this:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15615105@N00/490467091/
if they are too small, pm me an email address and i’ll send you a bigger version.

Digger…just get a small mirror and lay it along the central meridian of the armor. That will tell you if you’re right.
ck

two things I would like to mention.
First, there is a post(which I can’t find right now) somewhere in this thread in which someone mentions writing on the rectangular stone pedestal.  After staring at this for awhile under the harsh glare of a 300W Halogen lamp I did see the words although I could not read them.  However, from the general shape of them I think they are just the artists full name: John Jude Palencar.
Second, it occurred to me that the suit of armor in this picture(if it represents a real suit of armor that can actually be found somewhere) could actually be two different suits of armor.  As the left and right sides of the armor are similar but distinctly different.  Unfortunately, I don’t have the photo editing software to actually examine this.  So I’m wondering if someone has the ability to split this image right down the middle of the armor and then mirror it (i.e. you would have a picture of two right sides of the picture or two lefts).  Not sure that is very clear but I don’t know how to explain it better
digger7

Cat,
thats a good connection between the island and that design.  but i still think image 3 points to Boston.  All the metal thats in the picture, the “crucifiction” pose of the armor, and the metal bells point to Paul Revere (he was a blaksmith) and the church theme of his freedom ride at midnight.
NOTE:  anyone please post any ideas you ahve about this pic being boston going along with verse 3

I believe this image falls under the following theme:
January (1 o’clock)
Garnet
White Carnation
English Theme
“Fairies of England proudly bear
Garnet, crown-jewel of their Queen.”

I might have made a discovery about picture 3 that is WAY off track from what people have been thinking. But, as with the Congress reference being to Chicago, it is possible.
All right. Paul Revere has come up frequently in association with this picture. Also, christian references with the position of the armor and the cross in the wall.
Here’s where the stretch comes in, but it’s not a huge one. Look at the hands. The one on the right seems to be shaping the number “9” with his thumb and ring finger. THe left hand, using the first, middle and ring fingers, makes a black “3”. “93”
Look at the wall to the far left and far right above the floor molding. The cracks suggest a “4” on the left and a “5” on the right. “45”
45N 95W is the lat./long. of St. Paul, Minnesota. Paul Revere reference and a Christian reference.
Please take shots at this theory. I can’t see anything wrong with it.
Jason
[email protected]
AOL: Stageman97

ive seen otherpictures that have a url from this site, and i think they’re normal users.  anyway,should i use a live journal type web site to post pictures ??
as for what i was posting, theres a couple “faces” in the stones.  one of them is inbetween the belly of the sculpture thing and the top of the cross.  the other one is coming out the left side of the pedastal near the crown molding stuff near the top of it.  ive outline them in photoshop so that you can see them better, and when i can post the pic to a site, i will.

heres a few new things that ive found in the picture.  they’re kind of strange, and im not sure what to make of them.  they might be big finds, or they could just be “easter eggs.”  not really sure, let me know what you all think.

the image doesn’t come up on my screen. also, how do you post an image to the responses?
wilhouse

well, the URL of that image is file:///C:/Documents%20and%20Settings/BUISNESS%20CENTER%202/Desktop/outline-pic3.bmp which is on his local hard drive.  Sorry, but it has to be sitting on a publically accessible server for us to see it.
As for inline pictures, you can use YABBC tags.  Click on the 4th button in the 2nd row of icons on the Post form, above the row of smileys.  Your image URL should begin with http://

I can see it!  I can see it, George!
(OK, a lame Steinbeck reference)
Thank you for the walk-through, Fox.
It would be nice to see all the other little lines in that area of the pic.
–Johann

Loph —  That 38 was a great pull!  Can I ask, did you use some sort of image manipulation with that (i.e. Photoshop) or did you originally see it in the picture and then simply outline what you saw?
In my book there appears to be something hidden near the bottom of the stone base supporting the armor and pedestal.  To me, it looks like a thin rectangular shape with either letters or some shapes and it appears to be somewhat off-center.  It is SO subtle, that it may just be a printing imperfection or scratches on my page.  But the bottom of the rectangle seems very clear and very straight.
I haven’t had any luck scanning this section in high resolution or applying any Photoshop magic to the picture.
Does anybody see this?
>>>Dan

Dan, can you be more specific?
I found a great way to look for stuff in the picture is to do a negative on it.  check this out:
http://games.groups.yahoo.com/group/arm … ing/files/
wilhouse
ps – a little credit here, I did find the 38 first…

Wilhouse — Grand kudos to you on your most impressive find.  I bow to the voodoo nature that I see within you.  Seriously, I’m sorry that I didn’t read closely enough to see that you had originally posted this idea.  Great job!
I checked out your negative and I had tried that method as well, although you have a much better resolution.  Let me see if I can get you to see what may actually not be there:
Starting from the bottom of the page, you have the rectangular stone pillar that rises up and supports the cylindrical pedestal and armor.
Directly to the left of the pillar, there are two stones in the floor that look like they form an “H” shape.  Move horizontally from the H’s middle onto the pillar.  At approximately that height, I “see” a rectangular shape with some sort of writing inside of it.  The bottom line is well defined and appears very straight.  There is a suggestion of two, short vertical end lines and the top horizontal line but I cannot say whether they are defined, or if my mind is filling those details in and giving shape to this object.  Inside is what I can only described as writing.  I can look close enough to make out a few letters, but again, that could be my imagination.  It appears to start with a T or J.
I had never noticed this object until today when I was outside in the sunlight and could see it somewhat.  The shape and the “letters” make me think of a name-card on the wall of someone’s cubicle — at least the shape is similar.
As is often the case, now that I have noticed this, I simply cannot “unsee” it.  The image does not clearly show up in the negative, but I am not sure if the contrast is great enough.
Take a look at your book and let me know if you agree that there is something there.  I may be headed for a rubber room…

first off, it was Wilhouse who found the 38.  i just outlined it since it was a weird thing in the wall.  but no one else is talking about what i think may be a bigger find.  actually save the outline i did to your harddrive and zoom in on the two “faces” near the bottom of the page.  i outlined the cross for reference, but what in the world is that flying creature thing??  is it a devil??  a unicorn?? i have no idea at all.  and then theres the face thing coming out of the pillar.  and i did use photoshop to outline these things.  just zoomed in, created a new layer, and worked my magic.  and as for the hands showing a 9 and a 3.  i suppose i can see that.  but i think if it is there, then its just another confirmer for Boston, since US 93 runs straight thru downtown boston, right next to the fleet center, which would have been the boston gardens in 1982, and also closer to 93 i might add.  so anyway, i think i might be done with this one for a while, my friend is done with his internship in 2 weeks, so he’ll be gone, and no other real reason to go to Boston.  the good news is, ive got a ton of friends who live in NYC, so guess its time to get to work on Pic 12…………

The Elizabeth II was launched in 1983-84, though it was built on-site. I’ve tried to reach out to the park for more info, but I think it’s highly unlikely that anything relating to the Elizabeth II is in the puzzle. It’s very possible that something related to ships/masts is there, because seriously, the arms splayed with the ropes underneath looks like a mast, but I doubt it’s this particular ship.
The Festival Park, and Jules Park (they are connected and adjacent, Jules’ Park is the name of the Bicentennial Park, it has a few names) are far away from the Elizabethan Gardens & Fort Raleigh.
Four21 – with the road that leads to Dark Forest, given where that is in the clues (right after the first “movement” direction) do you think it could be similar to “Green tower of lights” in Verse 3? You don’t deviate at the green tower of lights, you just see them. Maybe you don’t go down the dark path, you read the sign and pass it?
This puzzle also multiple times refers to things that are very far away. The Wright Bros monument is 15 miles from Roanoke or so, and it specifically calls out words on that monument, one we likely never go to or visit in our quest, and we believe it’s used twice as a direction and an orient point.
I want to see the Raleigh statute if it’s still in Jules Park. Also in Jules Park: The Roanoke Weather Station (has support struts like under the armor’s arms, but this is not a unique shape at all), lots of lamps, basically it was a park they built in the 1970s mostly out of existing junk. The cross is the cornerstone of an old school they demolished. (First seen standing?) It’s super eclectic and sounds like a fun little place to visit. Plus the maritime museum is right on the same grounds, AND the Roanoke Lighthouse.
But I can’t connect the two sites at all. I’d say Jules/Roanoke Festival Park are a combo the same way Fort Raleigh and the Gardens are. It’s probably 10 million percent easier to dig in Jules/Bicentennial park or Roanoke Festival Park though.

Okay, I figured out how to post an image, finally:

Xieish

The Elizabeth II was launched in 1983-84, though it was built on-site. I’ve tried to reach out to the park for more info, but I think it’s highly unlikely that anything relating to the Elizabeth II is in the puzzle. It’s very possible that something related to ships/masts is there, because seriously, the arms splayed with the ropes underneath looks like a mast, but I doubt it’s this particular ship.
The Festival Park, and Jules Park (they are connected and adjacent, Jules’ Park is the name of the Bicentennial Park, it has a few names) are far away from the Elizabethan Gardens & Fort Raleigh.
Four21 – with the road that leads to Dark Forest, given where that is in the clues (right after the first “movement” direction) do you think it could be similar to “Green tower of lights” in Verse 3? You don’t deviate at the green tower of lights, you just see them. Maybe you don’t go down the dark path, you read the sign and pass it?
This puzzle also multiple times refers to things that are very far away. The Wright Bros monument is 15 miles from Roanoke or so, and it specifically calls out words on that monument, one we likely never go to or visit in our quest, and we believe it’s used twice as a direction and an orient point.
I want to see the Raleigh statute if it’s still in Jules Park. Also in Jules Park: The Roanoke Weather Station (has support struts like under the armor’s arms, but this is not a unique shape at all), lots of lamps, basically it was a park they built in the 1970s mostly out of existing junk. The cross is the cornerstone of an old school they demolished. (First seen standing?) It’s super eclectic and sounds like a fun little place to visit. Plus the maritime museum is right on the same grounds, AND the Roanoke Lighthouse.
But I can’t connect the two sites at all. I’d say Jules/Roanoke Festival Park are a combo the same way Fort Raleigh and the Gardens are. It’s probably 10 million percent easier to dig in Jules/Bicentennial park or Roanoke Festival Park though.

Sure, the “Dark forest” sign is like the “green tower of lights”… you walk to it, then you pass it and continue on as the verse directs. All this talk about off-site (i.e., not in FRHP or EG) ships and crosses… Why not use the ones at FRHP? If you think the “Queen” is important, why not use the Queen at EG? If you think the image’s relation to Raleigh is important, why drift away from the most direct link – Fort Raleigh?
BTW, I’ve spent a good deal of time at the WB Memorial, and that location has it’s merit by using V5. V11 would then be used for Montreal, where you find Octave and his “two friends” in a conveniently named park. However, I just can’t get away from “the land near the window” being a direct link for I3V11.

Egbert

Okay, I figured out how to post an image, finally:

Here’s another one:
E
lizabethan
g
arden

Xieish

I’m not saying go dig up the park, but it’s been 30+ years, can someone take a look?

I’d have thought it was worth someone having a look round this place next time there’s a visit.
The verse references various things around the theatre/gardens. Apart from the dark forest sign, there’s also the July/August sign. “White” appears on Forest’s fave map sign, and there’s a possible cryptic tie-in with the play via ‘”White in colour” / White in Green (character/playwright).
On the other hand…Roanoke’s not a huge place. It would seem reasonable to suppose BP would visit both parks, just as he might have visited several parks in places like NO. Are the Roanoke gardens and park any more widely separated than, say, Louis and Lafayette, or Juneau and the golf course…?
We’re pretty sure the images reference things all over the place. We can’t be sure some of the verses don’t either.
Plus, like Xieish says, we’ve had no luck at all with image matches for this one. There’s nothing except the island, really. But the main character could represent a mast, and while there are mast pics up north, the actual ship is at the festival park. It’s called the Elizabeth II, and the English queen is mentioned in the intro. Xieish also mentions a Raleigh statue, and tobacco is also mentioned in the intro. The Leprechauns are described as smokers and shoemakers…
I’m intrigued by this shape the key is hanging from…
The festival park has a blacksmith’s shop with anvils and stuff which seems to fit with the general look of the image. There’s also traditional crafts, shoemaking, etc. I once suggested that “last” might be a cobbler’s last. Maybe “last touched and first seen standing” could be a shoe; a horseshoe…? A road that sounds like shoe…? Something cobbled…? Dunno.
We know BP uses acrostics, and the verse starts with an inverted “RIP” which seems to go with the tombstone effects. Roanoke Island Park…?

I’m more inclined after researching Verse 11 to think of this image as the connection with the Wright Brothers location in Kill Devil Hills, the Outer Banks in NC.
There are a few things I found out today:
All the dangling bits from the armor are Aircraft companies. Bell, IMP, Keystone. If you look at the armor itself, you can see resemblances between cockpit instruments/gauges and the components of the armor. The control yoke looks like the pieces of the armor on the right arm.
Even the pea on the spoon has an aviation connection: Howard Hughes was well known for only liking peas–and for being somewhat of a nutcase about separating them by size.

maltedfalcon

looks really promising.

while, personally, i don’t think this is the path, the images and locations are quite nice. i just noticed 16th of August Ct.
In July and August
? wonder what year that street popped up… that posted conversation in an adjacent thread about google, pictures, and local libraries is painfully true.

I’m venturing a guess that BP took one of these guided tours,
http://www.historicalbemarletour.org/About_Hat.htm
Note, HAT was established in 1975.

Let’s just be glad it’s Roanoke Island and not Oak Island 🙂

I’ve spent hours reading through posts about the verses and images….
I did come up with a few possibilities only to find they’d already been mentioned LOL
However, I remember someone suggesting the dig to be under the gate
to the beach….
The base in P3, the sphere and the square base resembles the gate posts
http://www.elizabethangardens.org/images/tour16.jpg
Perhaps
After circle and square
?
And if you’re facing north, which I’m gathering from the pics that would be towards the water
the gate is last touched, and first seen as you approach….wouldn’t you say?

I agree that the gate could be that which is
last touched or first seen standing
. But the gate doesn’t resemble the pic to me:
http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y152/stumilam2/The%20Secret/12.jpg
.
Hey, mysscryss, if you’re in NC, perhaps we can collaborate on a visit to Roanoke sometime. My shovel is *still* in my trunk.

Given the new discovery that the jewels’ value determined the difficulty, this has got to be one of the easier ones, right…? So it’s really all been said, but here’s another appeal to any future visitors. The great thing about Roanoke is that the site may still be undisturbed. It just might be recoverable.
Here’s another look at the extended canvas for Image 3 revealed by James Renner.
The verse tells us that:
A path beckons / To mica and driftwood
Given the references to the Elizabethan Gardens, we know the casque isn’t far away. And the water gate beyond it leading to the beach is a perfect fit for this line.
We see a metal character, chains hanging off him, beckoning us on. He’s blocking an archway leading to an open vista filled with blue. I reckon the whole thing is an abstract impression of that gate.
As for “Under that / Which may be last touched / Or first seen standing” – well, I don’t know. The gate is the last thing you touch when you leave the place, and someone’s “gait” becomes visible when they stand. But it doesn’t really matter. After all, half the clues in Chicago were wrongly interpreted but they still found the thing.
As for whereabouts it is, perhaps where the character is pointing; towards the base of the left column. That’s where I’d try digging, anyway. Perhaps outside, if inside is impossible.
There are other subtle connections like this being January, which comes from Janus, the god of gates.
Somewhere round there? It’s got to be worth a look.

sure looks like it!  i bet it’s from an admirer of “The Secret”

i like that “cher o kee”  whiterabbit
,  it would tie in north carolina with the image with the “keys”,  that’s good
your ‘bottom”, lol………….that’s better than the riddle it reminds me of, but it was your “lap”……that disappears when you stand up
but if anyone hasn’t dug by that bench or that gate, then we don’t have any hunters, because they have brought it up since before i started looking at this hunt, probably since they started this website.
back in the olden days when forest was still a hunter……………
just kidding forest!

http://www.uscg.mil/history/articles/in … le_men.asp

I’ve had a few requests for this so here it it. I finally found the link I needed.
https://www.360cities.net/image/roanoke … an-gardens

the lookout on the nature trail?

Doesn’t it look like the overhead view of an airplane?  Does this suggest NC?

the face in the armor isnt a bull, its a horse.  look at the ears and the nose, its a dead give away.  ive known it for a while, i just cant figure out what it means.  maybe just another reference to Paul Reveres ride.

or a nag’s head as in Nags Head, NC (between Wright Bros. Nat. Mem. and Roanoke Island)?
the outline of Roanoke, the red flower-petals (as a potential link to the Elizabethan Gardens), and the military theme (as a potential link to Fort Raleigh) also suggest a match to Verse 11

any one have any thoughts on a possible templar connection? the knights templar used a equal sided cross, very similar to the one on the armor. the armor itself is out streched in the shape of a christian cross. And following my canadian guess I find it interesting that the knights templar where comprised of mostly brits and the french, the two major imigrants of canada.

I believe someone here *did* dig under the Water Gate a few years back. I forget who, though.

Do we know if the bench was there?  Mica and driftwood, at this point, can only mean the beaches or something constructed from wood and…sand?  I posted a long time ago a story by Banfield that spoke about living in a house made of mica and driftwood on an island.  The story has no relation to this hunt, but how do you build a hut out of mica and driftwood?

Unknown

Unknown:
Do we know if the bench was there?

It was there in May 2006 when I visited.

i really like that gate, but surely someone has poked on the backside of it by now……?

It is the treeline off to the side of the path that interests me the most.  Very indiscreet and out of the way.  A perfect place to bury a casque.

Just a quick thought while doing research.  Could it be possible that are imp/thing holding the bubble w/ flower represents the shape of a tree?  Look at how the tree branches twist and curve behind V Dare in this photo.

Ok, how about this as the final resting place?
Using V11:  the V starts us at the WB Memorial w/ “two friends of octave”.  It than takes us across the sound “man of oz” using either the ferry or the bridge.  The “road that leads to Dark forest” takes us into the E Gardens.  The “path” beckoning “to mica (?) and driftwood” tells us to follow the path towards the beach and water.  Then comes the hard part:
“Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing
Look north at the wing
And dig
To achieve
By dauntless and inconquerable”
but…Could these first two lines be referring to the gate itself?  “Last touched” because it is a locked gate and you can not go any further or touch anything else.  “first seen standing”…as in – the only thing keeping you from the beach is the locked gate standing before you.  It would be first seen standing because it would be the first (and only) locked gate standing you would see while walking down the path.
Now the V comes full circle.  It starts us at the WB Memorial and now that we have reached the gate, it ends by saying you are in the right place to dig when you can see the Memorial to the north which is inscribed with “dauntless and (u)nconquerable”.  All you have to do is DIG.
This is possibly shown in P3.  The ‘window’ does not look like the gate itself but the bluish inside resembles water…and our statue stands in front of it with arms outstretched, blocking us from the water like a locked gate.
Perhaps the final step would be to walk off of the path into the trees (as this photographer did)…
notice the cement orbs on either side of the gate…they resemble the 2 bubbles, one of which is being held by the imp, in P3.  All you have to do is find the tree shaped like the imp and position yourself behind it so that the orb appears to be being held by the imptree.  Dig fellas, dig!

I like the gate too.  I like this spot alot! Back to the butt and the bench.  Here’s a yellow X for FB.
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing
Look north at the wing
And dig

I never realised that the north part of the Elizabethan Gardens is open to the beach. Look down at the amazing footprints in the sand.
and check the live compass bearing and zoom north.
http://www.360cities.net/image/roanoke- … ,2.03,99.6
Although this photo of the Roanoke sound is on Google Earth, the 360cities.net site makes it easier to find panoramic photos.
http://www.360cities.net/map#lat=35.938 … 15&zoom=18
The garden paths on this visitor map bear a possible likeness to the chest armour of a mirrored image 3
Has anyone seen a more realistic map of the Elizabethan Gardens? All the satellite views seems to show trees apart from the sunken garden and lake. The historic views on Google Earth are no help either.
(8635)

WhiteRabbit

I recently got in contact with a volunteer at Fort Raleigh (hi!) who’s interested in looking for the casque, and I noticed he’s been updating the Wiki…

Does anyone know anything about that “Way Side Sign with two maps” that should be at the spot marked “1” on this map? This is the only place I’ve seen it mentioned and I haven’t been able to find a picture. I tried contacting Paul Kitchen directly, but he’s currently off on some adventure in New Mexico.

Glossiphoniidae

We gave up and walked from the trail head to the ticket booth. The signage clearly had two maps and amply discussed one map being in watercolor. It also read at length White in Green’s play.

This sounds like the same signs that Paul Kitchen was describing, but I still haven’t found any photos of them. Were the signs on the ticket booth or across from it or behind it or what? Anybody know?

oo that was a while back, There was a picture at one time.
it was one of those things that when you saw the picture, and read the text, you went,ok! well that piece is solved!
I believe they were along the path on the left just as you left the parkinglot

Paul Kitchen

You are corrct in that the diffs are very small and it is hard to draw any conclutions from this comparison. I am busy looking through the Museum Resource Center here at Fort Raligh. I am looking for photographs and documants that might help us to see the area as it was in 1981/2 in hope to identify that key feature that leads to the right spot. More news to follow as I dig. So far no luck at all. However, there are thousands of photos and doucments to look through.

Keep at it. Only through tons and tons of research will these treasures be found.

erexere

Some of us are considering the Washington-Baum bridge crossing over to Roanoke…

And another one of us is considering the Washington Baum Bridge crossing over to La-La Land. I know my posts get a little wild sometimes, but
Wow
. Come back to us, Erexere! Come back!

Just wanted to post this here since I’m working on it elsewhere with a couple searchers.
The “Morning Star”
(pointed ball on the right wrist)
First I see it as an important time clue taking us back to a period in which “Morning Stars” were used as weapons. But most importantly, it represents the Wright Brothers Memorial. The Memorial is a big, beautiful, circular-domed hill which can appear to be half a ball sticking out of the ground. The base is a huge star with a circle in the center….this is the inspiration for the “Morning Star” on the arm.
Imagine if your hand was big enough to grab the WBM by the upWright (see what I did there) portion and pull it off the ground. It would be similar to holding a “Morning Star” in your hand.
Any other thoughts?

Egbert, why do you say image 2? in book this is third image..
I like the hands, yes look like they mean something. Are the holes you are refereing to the “dents,” 1 in the left abdomin, there is also on on the left arm. Always thought this picture might be a reference to a crucifix, the pose, along with the injury in the left abdomin..
One of my favorite images, so much detail!!!

Frishkie, look at the circle on the righthand shoulder.  It’s got two lines in it and sort of looks like a baseball.
Can someone who has the book tell me anything about the weird little patch on the right side of the picture near the base of the columns (under and to the right of the hanging spoon)?  What is that thing?  Does it say something in the patch?  The scan I have isn’t quite sharp enough.

I have the book, and it is still not clear what that thing is.  It appears to be a tag tied to the end of the pea spoon.  There is a tiny hole at the top of the item that suggests it is tied to the spoon, though no discernable line.  If you look REALLY hard, there appears to be the letter “E”.  It kinda reminded me of a potato chip.
ABQRAM

I believe it has been suggested that it is a teabag.

Unknown

Unknown:
Reading recent posts finally led me to find my copy of the book the other day.  I am playing catch up, but the peaspoon would seem to link back to the Paul Revere connection with verse 3.  Revere was a silversmith who made peaspoons.  FWIW.

I don’t want to be critical, Frish, but is that the only reason we think this image represents Boston?  I realize that we have only one example to go by, but I don’t remember any such…shall we say, “intricate” clues in that other picture pointing to Chicago; just a couple of well-known landmarks disguised as parts of a castle.

I know some ASL signs and fingerspelling.  The hands do not say anything to me.  However, i’m not fluent.  Do you think the puzzle setter is?

http://www.lib.unc.edu/ncc/ref/nchistor … c2004.html
Finding no reason to ignore the perfect match of a glass insulator belonging to a telephone pole im still bound to the idea of a post with crossbar (square like in a square-rig mast) as the final focus.  The figure demonstrates the same posture.  I see no reason to focus on a spot beneath a bench.
I’m still very interesred in this Christmas oriented Outer Banks tradition where a four legged bull headed creature is described to take part.

Where is the Morning Star? What is it? How does it represent the Wright Brothers memorial?

drunknerds

Where is the Morning Star? What is it? How does it represent the Wright Brothers memorial?

morning star being a medevil weapon, that looks kinda like the thing on the arm/shoulder, right, of the painting…the memorial from above kinda looks like one stuck in the ground, if you were a giant.

Here is a slightly different angle of Marsh Plaza:
http://ambutologist.tripod.com/redskyredplaza.JPG
notice the water in the background….”Face the water”
is that a small park between the church and the water?…accesable to BP and his shovel?
the statue out front is called “Free at last” but I have no idea how long it has been there.
and what is the Coliseum looking bldg across the water?

ah shucks…it is the DeWolfe Boathouse on the Cambridge side of the Charles and it came around long after BP did his thing.  Hoping it was our coliseum..oh well

Now that is quite interesting indeed.
“In truth, be free.”

drunknerds

Where is the Morning Star? What is it? How does it represent the Wright Brothers memorial?

The morning star is the spiked ball on the right wrist.
Someone had mentioned how they believed the extended arms represent the Wright Bros plane and the arms also represent the outer banks. In that thought process of the Outer Banks I can see how the WBM could be the morning star that you would see in the distance while standing on Roanoke Island. Just under that in Image 3 is the bat wing holding the circle with the key. The circle is very similar to the circle on the old maps of Outlook Terrace in Elizabethan Gardens.

Morning all,
New to and slightly obsessed with this hunt, but I wanted to check if anyone else has noticed that there appears to be some sort of writing on the tag attached to the spoon?  Or perhaps I’ve just been staring at this image too long.

Welcome to the hunt.
I noticed that there MAY be writing on that “tag,” perhaps a map, but it is so dark that it is impossible to tell what it is.
I have often thought that there is a rebus down there, composed of the spoon, what looks like a pea, and that tag.
Even the cracks in the wall, the string, and what looks like some weird impression around the top of the handle of the spoon, may come into play there.
I tried putting different things into Google, and I still could not come up with anything.

If you stare at it long enough it looks a bit like the cursive letter E followed by an eight or a three and then what reminds me of the censor blurs on tv.  Might that “pea” actually be a marble?  Black peas do exist (they are actually purple) and are a traditional Lancashire version of mushy peas, but my first thought was bead or marble.

Are you close to this site Salamander? Looking for someone to take detailed pics of a bench.

No, but I spend a week at the shore during the summer. I’d be happy to take as many pics as you like.  I’m fairly convinced that the OBX are the right area.

I think this one might need a change of perspective. Eg, the column could be a staircase leading up to an entrance…
…or the floor could be a wall.
(Maybe that unidentified blob is the casque at the foot of a column, with the spoon as a digging clue.)
Since the right key is next to the Roanoke map…
Perhaps the shape beside the left one also has a particular significance.
Considering the various cross/tombstone suggestions…
I wondered if this “key” shape might be a partial view down at a tombstone.

forest_blight

…the 1896 Fort Raleigh marker, which contains the phrase “On this site in July – August 1585…” in its first line.
And look, here’s a path beside the 1896 marker, beckoning. This is the path that leads to the theatre, the Hariot trail, and Fort Raleigh.

Unknown

Unknown:
On this site, in July – August, 1585 (O.S.), colonists, sent out from England by Sir Walter Raleigh, built a fort, called by them
“The New Fort in Virginia”
These colonists were the first settlers of the English race in America. They returned to England in July, 1586, with Sir Francis Drake.
Near this place was born, on the 18th of August, 1587, Virginia Dare, the first child of English Parents born in America – daughter of Ananias Dare and Eleanor White, his wife, members of another band of colonists sent out by Sir Walter Raleigh in 1587.
On Sunday, August 20, 1587, Virginia Dare was baptized. Manteo, the friendly Chief of the Hatteras Indians had been baptized on the Sunday preceding. These baptisms are the first known celebrations of a Christian Sacrament in the territory of the thirteen original United States.
[Monument reverse]:
In memory, too, of our founder and first president, Edward Graham Daves.
Erected by the Roanoke Colony Memorial Assoc’n, Nov. 24, 1896.
Graham Daves, President
John S. Bassett, Sec’ty & Treas.

It also reminds me of:
Taking “the wing” as a cryptic hint for the theatre, which also has wings, it’s interesting that the theatre is due north of the marker.
The armoured figure might be a character in the play, with his aeroplane-pose reinforcing the connection.
I’m starting to wonder if this area with the marker could actually be the spot. The inscription reads:
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=9460
“Colonists from England” fits the book’s storyline. It also references White, and Virginia Dare, signalled in the image via her pedestal…
This was at the old entrance to Fort Raleigh.
Here’s another of those possible “with two maps” boards, at Fort Raleigh…
Alternatively, the visitor centre at Fort Raleigh has watercolours by White, including maps…
Raleigh in armour…
Wing of a building / gallery…? Naturally it’s the Wright memorial, but maybe something else as well. I wonder if “mica and driftwood” might be references to something round here.
Here’s a PDF summary:
Roanoke theory
(I’ll see if I can get hold of anyone at Fort Raleigh. No luck getting a response from the Elizabethan Gardens or Lost Colony Theatre.)

Glossiphoniidae

My gut tells me that nobody will answer the questions because the answer to all of them is… “I don’t know.” THAT is why there is bickering. Nobody likes to admit his/her theory is equally as plausible as an Erexere’s theory.

I am not sure what point you are trying to make with all this. Is it:
1. No point at all, just trolling through, and very frustrated.
2. We should stop discussing these puzzles, because no theory can be proven until a casque is found.
3. We should stop criticizing the craziest theories being put forth, because there is no proof that they are incorrect.
4. Something else not mentioned above.
If it is #1, then there is nothing really for me to comment on that. If it is #2, I think the sharing of ideas can lead – and indeed has led – to a solution. So, I would disagree with theory #2. If it is #3, I have to side with Catherwood on this and disagree with it. I think there is enough of a “consensus” regarding general locations that a crazy theory that a treasure is in Oregon or Puerto Rico should be criticized or ignored. For example, we do not know for a certainty how the universe began, since no one has proven it yet. But are we therefore not allowed to criticize a theory that giant monkeys from another universe created where we live?

Glossiphoniidae

Right about what? I haven’t proffered anything.

You asked questions and declared you had a genuine interest in a response. If you don’t wish us to take you seriously, use different words. You asked direct questions of me, and I didn’t answer them to your liking, because I found your questions posed more questions about how we conduct a conversation within the bounds of uncertainty and unjustified assumptions.
I’ve shared a lot of theories, I think all of them are generally viewed as “bad” for a host of reasons mainly developed out of what we hold to be true of the Cleveland-Chicago paradigm. I’m fine with tossing a theory out, as long as there’s sufficient reason to move on. I understand that people think 30 minute/mile range is unacceptable, but that doesn’t sufficiently argue the points that Ive made: 1) Life Saving Station workers had a significant role in the First Flight, 2) “take the road” vs. “there is a road that leads to dark forest” gives us some latitude to consider traveling further south after passing Roanoke, 3) a spoon and a small pea-like sphere in it may be a clue to continue on to Pea Island.
The question “how do you
know
you are right” seems rhetorical. If I recovered a casque, I would know I was right. Lobbying to answer this sort of question is dumb and it doesn’t address or critique my points and it offers nothing of substance to the content of this image or verse 11.

Glossiphoniidae

Why is your solution, or any solution for that matter, better? Cause it is a more accepted opinion of how to interpret the clues? Do you have more subjective images matches than E? Do you have a more elegant interpretation of the verse?
Try this MB… which park is the Roanoke casque in? You sure?

I see what you’re doing here. Fish on!
We know the answer. That doesn’t matter. You’re not interested in that anyway, but I’d bet an artistic mspaint penis that you sure as-shit put eyes on the Wright Bros. monument from wherever the cask was originally buried.

Merlot Brougham

I see what you’re doing here. Fish on!

I actually need to go back to trolling because E will not engage and just pushes his dick pic idea. I engaged today for him alone.

Glossiphoniidae

Why did you stop?

Because I wasn’t entirely sold on the idea that the Sarmiento quote being used in 1982 was necessarily a specific reference to New Orleans because that’s a tough one to come up with even in the internet age, and to extrapolate the meaning to be New Orleans and assign it immediately as such when the quote was about a Hotel that is model after St. Peter’s cathedral, when there are other sovereign people and other St. Peter’s-modeled cathedrals.
For example, the quote by Herman Melville isn’t a clue to directly reference the subject of the quote. We are supposed to identify the author of the quote and then use that to get us to Hermann Park. To say of Sarmiento, “This quote is about a hotel in New Orleans and therefore, this must mean the verse is New Orelans” was a subject I explored for a bit. That’s all.

Come e… post something. I have some great memes loaded.

Glossiphoniidae

Why is your solution, or any solution for that matter, better? Cause it is a more accepted opinion of how to interpret the clues? Do you have more subjective images matches than E? Do you have a more elegant interpretation of the verse?
Try this MB… which park is the Roanoke casque in? You sure?

Again, can’t be sure of anything, but I am very much of the opinion that you can put eyes on the Wright Bros monument from wherever the cask was originally buried. That said, there are only so many parks where this is possible. You do the math.
I’ll get back to you after my social network gets back to me on how viral the following tweet went:
Treasure Forum Drama: ‘article reporting Carolista Baum’s help preserving the Life Saving Station that four21 drew a penis on’ #pipedown

Merlot Brougham

Again, can’t be sure of anything, but I am very much of the opinion that you can put eyes on the Wright Bros monument from wherever the cask was originally buried. That said, there are only so many parks where this is possible. You do the math.

Multiply that by how many places in those parks it could be…

I’d like to know more about that symbol carved into the bench at the Elizabethan Gardens.

Glossiphoniidae

Multiply that by how many places in those parks it could be…

Same team, dude. Same team. That wasn’t the point either of us was making, I don’t think.

erexere

I’d like to know more about that symbol carved into the bench at the Elizabethan Gardens.

It looked pretty good to me.
Something that could possibly be
“Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing”

erexere

I’d like to know more about that symbol carved into the bench at the Elizabethan Gardens.

You’ve got the innernets… go research. I’ll bet you’ll find it’s connected to a wing somehow. Is it there, though? No, it’s at Fort Raleigh. No, wait, it’s at the Elizabethan Gardens. No, no, wait… it’s at the lifesaving station. No, I got it this time, it’s in…
Seek and find. We know you can do it, e. We believe you.
Now tell us how you
know
you are right? Or do you have to dig a few holes to do that? If it ain’t there… then what? Dig some more holes?

Merlot Brougham

Something that could possibly be
“Under that
Which may be last touched
Or first seen standing”

Can you name something that it couldn’t be?

Glossiphoniidae

You’ve got the innernets… go research. I’ll bet you’ll find it’s connected to a wing somehow. Is it there, though? No, it’s at Fort Raleigh. No, wait, it’s at the Elizabethan Gardens. No, no, wait… it’s at the lifesaving station. No, I got it this time, it’s in…
Seek and find. We know you can do it, e. We believe you.
Now tell us how you
know
you are right? Or do you have to dig a few holes to do that? If it ain’t there… then what? Dig some more holes?

So where is it then since you seem so sure?

Merlot Brougham

So where is it then since you seem so sure?

Why, cause I asked a lot of questions?
I am trying to get to the root of erexere.

Glossiphoniidae

Can you name something that it couldn’t be?

The quality of your trolling in this thread, because it was never standing on anything more stable than a bed of (very funny) mspaint pubes.

Merlot Brougham

The quality of your trolling in this thread, because it was never standing on anything more stable than a bed of (very funny) mspaint pubes.

My dick is the last thing you will touch, bitch. And you know what, you are first gonna see this bad mofo standing.

Merlot Brougham

The quality of your trolling in this thread, because it was never standing on anything more stable than a bed of (very funny) mspaint pubes.

Now seriously, name something that it couldn’t be.

Glossiphoniidae

Can you name something that it couldn’t be?

Anything at the Life Saving Station

Merlot Brougham

Anything at the Life Saving Station

I dunno… seems like if you were drowned/drowning, and somebody was trying to save your life, their station may be the last thing you touch (if you die) or the first thing you see standing (when you come back to).

Glossiphoniidae

I dunno… seems like if you were drowned/drowning, and somebody was trying to save your life, their station may be the last thing you touch (if you die) or the first thing you see standing (when you come back to).

When I think Stand, I think about the Alamo, and remember in Saving Private Ryan when they talked about the Alamo? Doesn’t matter preiss was dead, because when I think of stands at the Alamo I think about music stands. When considering music you have both trebel and bass, but bass = base and what was the alamo but a base of operation?
I used to play the game operation and I think Preiss probably did too and you had to take out a rib or you would get a buzz. What is a buzz though, but a flash? Flash Gordon once said, “Get me Lieutenant Ekhart”. before her realized he was Jack Palance in Tim Burton’s (a.k.a “The good”) Batman.
If you remember in Batman they were fighting at Axis Chemical. What if Preiss consulted Adam West about Chemicals only to realize he was getting ahead of himself by publishing his book before Tim Burton would film a good shootout scene at Axis Chemical. You might joke that Preiss wasn’t going to “think about the future” as Ekhart says in the movie.
But “the future” leads me to the fountain of youth, which is an obvious segue. but I suppose I should continue on in the Image.
I figure one more half hit of this paper acid and I’ll have this shit solved by sunrise, Eastern time. I’ll report back after the “What if this never ends?” portion of the festivities settles down.

Merlot Brougham

When I think Stand, I think about the Alamo, and remember in Saving Private Ryan when they talked about the Alamo? Doesn’t matter preiss was dead, because when I think of stands at the Alamo I think about music stands. When considering music you have both trebel and bass, but bass = base and what was the alamo but a base of operation?
I used to play the game operation and I think Preiss probably did too and you had to take out a rib or you would get a buzz. What is a buzz though, but a flash? Flash Gordon once said, “Get me Lieutenant Ekhart”. before her relized he was Jack Palance in Tim Burton’s (a.k.a “The good”) Batman.
If you remember in Batman they were fighting at Axis Chemical. What if Preiss consulted Adam West about Chemicals only to realize he was getting ahead of himself by publishing his book before Tim Burton would film a good shootout scene at Axis Chemical. You might joke that Preiss wasn’t going to “think about the future” as Ekhart says in the movie.
But “the future” leads me to the fountain of youth, which is an obvious segue. but I suppose I should continue on in the Image.
I figure one more half hit of this paper acid and I’ll have this shit solved by sunrise, Eastern time. I’ll report back after the “What if this never ends?” portion of the festivities settles down.

Nuh-uh… my place is better than yours… cause… information!

MrSeabass

I don’t see how any of this is related to CandyLand, the California Raisins, Betamax, my lawnmower, the color purple, or The Color Purple.

Show me how your CandyLand solution works, and I’ll show you my Green Bike solution. Let’s argue till the flying monkeys come home.
Yup. This is definitely what Preiss intended when he wrote clues he wanted us to solve…

Maybe the mace on the armor sleeve is a Visigothic Fair Folk symbol for being in the Lollipop Guild…

There was an interesting tidbit about puzzles today during the Comey press conference. It reminded me of this puzzle.

MrSeabass

I don’t see how any of this is related to CandyLand, the California Raisins, Betamax, my lawnmower, the color purple, or The Color Purple.

But all of this speculation makes me think of colors and Preiss was feeding you a red herring by discussing the color purple. Red and blue make purple. Something to think about. Sometimes columns look like cue sticks, and it all has to do with the Color of Money. Arguably the best of Paul Newman, but in the Hustler he drinks JTS BRown. JTS. If you take the T and the S and adjust by 10 and 9 letters accordingly, you get JJP.
Perhaps the JJP’s in the images aren’t Palencars initials at all but just a cue that we need to ignore the McDonogh Statue in New Orleans altogether because of Mr Bingles.
Speaking of bullshit suggestions that the match is anything other than the McDonough

Merlot Brougham

Speaking of bullshit suggestions that the match is anything other than the McDonough

Does it matter if it is McDonough?
Did it matter that the Italian garden objects were more in count and in prominence?

Glossiphoniidae

Does it matter if it is McDonough?
Did it matter that the Italian garden objects were more in count and in prominence?

Does it matter that ‘The Burbs’ is the greatest movie ever made?
Get back at me when you know how to spell Mcdonoh, newb.
You score an F- on the brilliant trap I set up for you to stumble right in to.
“Which one of you puss heads is Brent Armstrong?”

I am genuinely interested in hearing your answers to the questions I’ve pose.

I have yet to hear an answer to a single one, including the original ones.

Glossiphoniidae

I have yet to hear an answer to a single one, including the original ones.

shoot. Be succinct. Been indulging in the devils lettuce but I will answer as you wish, as long as you aren’t going to inhibit my quest to ascend the D squash ladder

Merlot Brougham

shoot. Be succinct. Been indulging in the devils lettuce but I will answer as you wish, as long as you aren’t going to inhibit my quest to ascend the D squash ladder

Seems like each of my questions was quite short… what’s the problem?

Is this thread still about Image 3? (I agree that the Wing of the Wright Brothers National Memorial must be visible from the dig site on Roanoke Island.)
Could the other challenges and questions be moved to a general methodolgy thread? (While the extreme interpretation of any single clue might apply to many different dig sites, it is the combination of clues and their most simple meanings that will overlap on the correct solution.)
Should people take their bickering and personal attacks to private channels? (I’ve seen “answer my question” so many times, I’ve forgotten what the question was or to whom it was directed.)
I think this casque is lost. We know where it was (within a reasonable range) and can mourn its loss to decades of change. The dead end does not nullify the road that got us there. No amount of elegant presentation of alternate theories will override the evidence that we already narrowed this one down correctly. (Other verses and images are maybe less solid, but let this one go.)

catherwood

I think this casque is lost. We know where it was (within a reasonable range)…

Do tell!

Unknown

Unknown:
We know where it was (within a reasonable range) and can mourn its loss to decades of change

We do? How exactly do we KNOW this? I only ask because the prevailing wisdom seems to be that the casque was originally at the overlook at the end of the Hariot Trail. Unfortunately, there are at least two problems with this theory. The first is that despite extensive research, I can find no evidence of anything that I am satisfied fits the description of “last touched, or first seen standing”. And the second is that the overlook has been extensively dug, and continues to be searched to this day. I have been there myself 6 times, and each and every time I find evidence that earth is being moved. If the casque was there, and taken out whole at some point, I’d assume that there would be some record of the discovery somewhere. And if the casque was destroyed in the process, then I would assume that someone would have found some evidence of its existence. A bit of plastic or ceramic, something.
I’m not really looking for an answer here, or trying to be argumentative for arguments sake. I’m just trying to point out that a lot of the things we think we KNOW may not, in fact, be true. Prime among them is the prevailing wisdom that change has made these puzzles unsolvable. Personally, I think at least 6 or 7 are still recoverable, in whole or in part. Including the one in Roanoke.

catherwood

Is this thread still about Image 3? (I agree that the Wing of the Wright Brothers National Memorial must be visible from the dig site on Roanoke Island.)

Unknown

Unknown:
Could the other challenges and questions be moved to a general methodolgy thread?

Unknown

Unknown:
While the extreme interpretation of any single clue might apply to many different dig sites, it is the combination of clues and their most simple meanings that will overlap on the correct solution.

Unknown

Unknown:
Should people take their bickering and personal attacks to private channels? (I’ve seen “answer my question” so many times, I’ve forgotten what the question was or to whom it was directed.)

Yes, all my questions have been directed about Image 3, but have occasionally broadened.
No need. I wanna know why erexere’s lifesaving station theory is wrong.
Quick aside… I am in GGP looking for a casque and hit the clue, “first across.” Prayerbook Cross, Crossover Dr., Padre statue, HWY 1 across the park, Pioneer Meadow? Can you tell me the most simple interpretation so that I can dig up a casque? Are they all equally as simple in your mind? What about other peoples’ minds?
What makes the lifesaving station wrong? What makes wherever you know it to be (or have been) right? In whose eyes is the meaning of the clues most simple?
Ain’t that the truth. I believe, however, I am going out of my way to only ask questions, which I am genuinely interested in hearing the answers to (or, at least others’ theories as to the answer).
My gut tells me that nobody will answer the questions because the answer to all of them is… “I don’t know.” THAT is why there is bickering. Nobody likes to admit his/her theory is equally as plausible as an Erexere’s theory.

Unknown

Unknown:
Nobody likes to admit his/her theory is equally as plausible as an Erexere’s theory.

Or in this case, being off by 30 miles isn’t a whole lot different that being off by 30 feet.

Euhirudinea

Or in this case, being off by 30 miles isn’t a whole lot different that being off by 30 feet.

Bingo.
How’d you get to be so damned nice? You’d think I was the old curmudgeon. We should work together… I’ll be the bad cop.

Should the question be “why do you think you are right?”

erexere

Should the question be “why do you think you are right?”

Right about what? I haven’t proffered anything.

Hello All!
I just picked up the book last week and have been drawn to Image 3.
I live south of Chicago…so naturally I went for the image that was most pleasing to the eye.
I have been trolling the boards for a few days…but have not been able to read everything..so please bare with ANOTHER noob!
I traced the lines on the wall and floor of image 3 to an overhead projecter film. I coincidentally had google maps up of the greater Boston area. I have no map frag matches but it got me thinking…
Anyone recognize the markings as land features? The marking to the right of the suit, on the wall, look to easily be rural highways, and the markings on the floor could be very well be airport runways or suburban road systems.
…just a synaptic jump…

Hariot trail overlook today.

Deuce

Hariot trail overlook today.

Did you find a “that” to dig under? … Perhaps you “overlooked” something.

No. I didn’t really see anything that felt like “this is it”. That’s including the gardens, hariot, and the theater. I’m sure there’s been a lot of changes in 35 years. I feel that any true marker is lost. I searched with the intent of taking numerous pics but there honestly wasn’t really anything to see. The bench moves, there’s new signage, trees have been cut, and the beach is pretty much gone.

Here’s a fun one… look at the back of an old sign in front of the theatre… I forget what it says on the front, but you can look at the back of it and see it is a reused OLD sign…

Overlook view from beach.

MrSeabass

Thought I’d help give erexere a head start.

How is this going to help? I don’t see a penis anywhere…

I’d be willing to bet Preiss had the song from Don Quixote memorized.  He knew imediately upon seeing the Mirlo Beach sign’s “Dare to dream the impossible dream” that he’d find a way to link that site with the Wright Bros. and toss in a reference to John White for the “Dare” reference.  He found the spot he wanted to bury the casque, which was beneath the wing of the Rec Pole.  He then found ways to relate a path leading from the Wright Memorial, passing Roanoke, passing Pea Island, and then landing on a spot near the iconic Chicamacomico water tower and Life Saving Station.
I admit I don’t understand several parts of the verse, but the gist of it and other parts flow perfectly for me to connect some serious dots.
f**k that bench theory.  It’s all about the mast of a sinking ship which is initially standing and then last touched as it is committed to the deep.  I’m drinking a beer right now and so It must be so.

Changed my mind after reading all the great info here.
And a lucky thing, also, as I am now on to the correct image and verse for St Louis, and I DO know where it is. Hopefully a retrieval is in short order, but if not I will at least supply photos of the pole, and location of the St Louis Casque.

Just for the record, i want to say i cant help with this image, my mind just goes blank every time i try to consider it.  Good luck Kevin.  I hope you find and that it would help bring us closure to the next casque.

One thing has really been nagging me about the nature trail solve: were all those signs and posts there in 1980/1/2? More specifically, when were they all put there and, secondarily, what resided on those lopped-off posts? The fact that the sign by the waterfront names 400 years of history from 1590, really makes me think that it must have been closer to, if not after 1990 when they were placed.
Based on recent discussions and reading the following, I decided that within the gardens was a much better spot:
“The Elizabethan Gardens are excluded from this study because they lie outside of the park’s boundary. Although the National Park Service owns the land surrounding the Elizabethan Gardens, the gardens themselves are the property of the Roanoke Island Historical Association. They are, therefore, not included in the documentation of cultural resources on property owned by the National Park Service.”
Then, I found this:
“The additional property acquired in 1990 has not been developed except for clearing an abandoned, unpaved roadway to serve as a visitor’s trail.’ Another pedestrian trail, the Thomas Hariot Nature Trail, winds through the wooded area adjacent to the theater and reconstructed fort and is intended to suggest the character of the landscape prior to European colonization.”
The real meat of the story is that I found…
“…Phil Evans, NPS interpreter from the Southeast NPS Region, has been named 1986 recipient of the Freeman Tilden award for excellence in interpretation. Disclosure of the honor was made at the September meeting of the Association of Interpretive Naturalists conference in September at the Delaware Water Gap National Recreation Area. Evans exercises his outstanding brand of interpretation at Fort Raleigh National Historic Site, which is managed as part of the Cape Hatteras National Seashore.”
“The Freeman Tilden Award is an annual award recognizing outstanding contributions to the public through interpretation by a National Park Service employee. The award was created in 1982 to stimulate and reward creative work by National Park Service employees that results in positive impacts upon the visiting public.”
“Phil is an attorney in private practice concentrating on juvenile and mental health law in Durham, NC. Previously he was a park ranger historian at the Fort Raleigh National Historic Site, where he received the Freeman Tilden Award for education and interpretation from the National Parks and Conservation Association.”
Phillip Evans currently has an office 3 miles from mine. I’m gonna swing by, chat hit up, and ask him about this photo:
http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7173/6819825329_0e19ceae74.jpg

From Rob Bolling (Fort Raleigh historian) to me, Dec. 23, 2005:
“All the present nature trailwaysides were designed by a student intern in the late 70’s named Ken Johns.”
When I asked how to get in touch with Ken Johns, he replied:
“I wish there was a warmer lead to find Ken, but that goes back so many years that it may have left our institutional knowledge. I’ll ask one or two local people, but unfortunately I probably won’t be able to locate him for you. I’ll check, but if you don’t hear back soon it means I can’t find what you need to contact him.”
…and I didn’t hear back.

Update: I’ve received sufficient confirmation to the effect that my theory on Chicamacomico will not lead to a successful recovery.  There’s been too many changes to the immediate environment to make any recovery possible.  Consider my theory proven false.