Euhirudinea

Obviously. But it should be equally obvious to you by now that things that don’t get discussed much are usually things not worth discussing. You have to make them worthy of discussion. So it’s not enough to say you think something is important. You have to say why.

Unknown

Unknown:
And if by saying why, you think that is going to somehow jeopardize your solve, well then, it’s probably advisable to not even bring it up on a public forum.

Unknown

Unknown:
That’s my opinion. And since you asked, here are a few more: If you are using a city other than New Orleans for Image 7, you are wasting your time. If you are using a Verse other than Verse 2 to find the casque in New Orleans, you are wasting your time. If your solve can not account for almost every single line in Verse 2 in a simple, logical, and easy to understand manner, with no more than one degree of separation between the line and the clue it is meant to reveal, you are wasting your time. If the facts that you assume (as opposed to those that you can prove) can’t be reasonably shown to have existed in more or less the same way they are now back in 1981, you are wasting your time. Finally, and this seems to be the sticking point for a lot of solves, if your solve doesn’t describe a fairly precise area (somewhere in the area of a 3×3 foot box), then you are probably wasting your time digging, and might be better off looking for historical evidence that may narrow the area down until you can.

I think it’s worthy of being discussed because these images are treasure maps, and clues are important. Why would deliberately writing something off-center *not* be a clue?
If my theory turns out to not be true, but someone else looks at this obvious clue and discovers that it leads them to a casque, then why not? Is finding these things not the objective on this forum?
I’m well past Methodology 101, but thank you for the lesson.

Frisco

I think it’s worthy of being discussed because these images are treasure maps, and clues are important. Why would deliberately writing something off-center *not* be a clue?

My answer to that question is that the images are NOT treasure maps. Deliberately painting something is what an artist does for the sake of the art. It’s only my opinion, of course, but I think the purpose of the images is to enhance the hunt, either by reinforcing clues found in the verses or to give a feeling for the history and culture of a city. There are no clues in the images which are not also in the verses. Again, it’s only my personal approach to the hunt as a whole. Obviously this method has not gotten me anywhere, but I’m also not wasting my time analyzing brush strokes which are merely artifacts of the artist at work.

Then why have images at all if the verse is the treasure map and JJP was free to paint whatever he wanted, including clues that not only don’t lead to the treasure, but can just as easily lead away from it?

It is my opinion that an Image has things in it that either tell you the general location of where the treasure is, or are things you can see from the treasure site. So, in this instance, the word “Preservation” either gives you a general area of New Orleans (it is near Preservation Hall), or you can actually see the word “Preservation” off-center from the dig site. I would think it is the former.
Okay, now what is your theory?

Man, forget I said anything.
I didn’t mean for this to be a discussion about my theory just yet. I didn’t realize how unimportant people thought the images were and thought a discussion on one of the bigger (in my opinion) and less-discussed clues could help. Let’s just get back to arguing about how much the mask does or doesn’t look like Louis Armstrong.

I’ll keep plugging.  (as we all)
I do not mean to offend (if I do) but I try
and stick with the image and the verse and
see how interpretations of them lead.
I try and put no emotional attatchment or
sanctimony to the paths, just lay thoughts out
to be debated.
Truth be told these days, no green space exists that can
be dug into – freely.
Loose clues that exist on verse and image that haven’t
found any good fits….. ’19’, “sounds from the sky”
I do think that “running north but first across” is used for both
the MIssissippi River (Twain’s attention) and to get you to
somewhere on Royal Street (in jewel’s direction)

Frisco

I didn’t say anything about that. But I do think that’s a pretty common shape. Walked around NOLA a lot today and saw a lot of arches like that in various places.

I know it’s a thin beef. I’m hoping you didn’t put inflection in my response to think I was being defensive about that. That answers my question, and I appreciate the quick response from some boots on the ground.
So when you say “like that” you mean the “layered” style arch like that? Does that make sense?

No, I haven’t seen an exact match for both pieces. But the tomb isn’t really, either.

Frisco

No, I haven’t seen an exact match for both pieces. But the tomb isn’t really, either.

Sorry, one more question if you know.
Is the double arch design of that tomb a “stock” item? Do many of the tombs in the St. Louis Cemeteries have identical/near-identical construction? I’m really hung up on the double layered arches that happen to be displayed on a clock but looks more like a tombstone given the zombie hand in the image. Sorry.

I think both of the St. Louis’ you’ve both pointed out are not what BP was referring to. You are too far south on that one.

decibalnyc

I think both of the St. Louis’ you’ve both pointed out are not what BP was referring to. You are too far south on that one.

Is this a response to my post? If so, I did put (or Montreal) in my post — maybe I shouldn’t have been so parenthetical
If not a reply to me, sorry
To what do you think the St. Louis hint refers?
C.

I didn’t notice–I didn’t go by the cemetery, and unfortunately I leave soon. But that’s not a zombie hand–it’s a loup-garoux. One of the French Fair Folk. A werewolf. The part I think evokes thoughts of a cemetery is merely that it seems low to the ground. I think it could also not have anything to do with a cemetery.

Montreal

decibalnyc

Montreal

yes, that almost has to be true…

The legeater in the golden square cinches Montreal as a casque location; but is Montreal the location that Preiss was referring to in his “St. Louid” email?
I don’t know.

Well we know it’s not St. Louis MO for several reasons other than Byron saying it’s not. Also the way he leaked that there was “one in St. Louis, but not the one you’re thinking of” is a total BP way of giving a clue.

decibalnyc

Well we know it’s not St. Louis MO for several reasons other than Byron saying it’s not. Also the way he leaked that there was “one in St. Louis, but not the one you’re thinking of” is a total BP way of giving a clue.

Agreed. Might still mean near St. Louis Cathedral in NO, mebbe?

cryptenigma

Agreed. Might still mean near St. Louis Cathedral in NO, mebbe?

yes that has to be considered a possibility for what he meant.

Ok… I kinda see that…
But if you look to the lighter square to the left of that face …
with a magnifying glass I think I can make 1907  …. it seems almost every light block has something hidden in it…
of course it could just be my mind wanting to find patterns
I have a feeling though… that the picture viewed with only your eyes and the right selection of verse will lead to a more simplified solution.
Remember.. BP didn’t expect it to last this long…
I start wondering if people (myself especially) aren’t overthinking things..
and can’t see the forrest for the trees.

I’m with you Cormac.  Once again, I must state that I am not too keen on the idea of trying to see things in the pixels {lack of better word}.  I may; however, be swayed if someone cares to go crosseyed scouring the P’s for the 2 found treasures and find something “Definitive” in the pixels around the casque burial site.  Until then, I think we are trying tooooo hard to find images that probably weren’t even meant to be included in these puzzles.

I’m with you Doth.  Preservation Hall, Louis Armstrong, these get you to N.O.  The rest of the clues get you to story land. (I think)
Many of you have good arguements for a different direction.  Storyland just feels right.  BP-ish, ya know?  The verse?  Who the hell knows!  Can probably squeeze them all in there somehow.

Not that this is unique or significant, but I found it
in one of the antique shops (along Royal) and would be
remiss not to share…
**www.idamanheimantiques.com/closeup.asp?p=/antiques/clocks_112.jpg
(website gives errors – maybe due to music)
(you can access from general below)
I was intrigued by the three high posts.  (photo attached)
www.idamanheimantiques.com

The mask still looks like Armstrong to me.
http://thesecret.pbwiki.com/7_site
AnotherDoth

bing “Lake Ponchatraine”, this is the shape of the masks nose.

well any 3 lines can fit together to make a triangle.
what makes those line special or noteworthy
Sometimes a cigar is just a cigar…
Sigmund Freud

like…i mean, they redeveloped the whole entire park after the hunt was already established.
never met anyone more addicted than me haha…addiction will get you closer to victory…

Please excuse my noviceness on this puzzle. But, I have read a lot of the comments and theories about the image; and I have not heard anyone mention the “spoon” that crosses Werewolf’s hand. The shirt cuff makes the image of the spoon. The right side is the spoon bowl and the left hand side is the handle. Don’t know if it has been noted before, or if it means anything. Just throwing it out there.

NOLA68

Please excuse my noviceness on this puzzle. But, I have read a lot of the comments and theories about the image; and I have not heard anyone mention the “spoon” that crosses Werewolf’s hand. The right side is the spoon bowl and the left hand side is the handle. Don’t know if it has been noted before, or if it means anything. Just throwing it out there.

I think you would have to sketch this up.

NOLA68

Using the grid on image 7, go to M5. You should be able to recognize the feeding end of a spoon with the tip of the mask handle right in the center of it. The handle of the spoon would be to the left of the hand (M3). I first thought the “feeding end” was an eye; but now I see it as a spoon. Don’t mean to go all Salvador Dali on everyone; but, to me it looks like a spoon.

Gotcha, seeing that now. What does this tell us?

A couple other observations I have made and not seen anyone else post: Look at New Orleans City Hall building. The glass window façade strongly resembles the checkerboard backdrop of image 7. Then find a picture of the same building lit up at night and you will notice a neon light intertwined into the NEW ORLEANS CITY HALL lettering that is in the irregular shape of the MS river. And that same shape is on the leading edge of the werewolf’s cuff on his shirt. Lastly, the NO City Hall building sits on Duncan Plaza park. Look at an overhead view of the park and you will notice several oval shapes and straight lines. To me they look a lot like the shapes on the large minute hand of the clock in image 7. Jus sayin’.

gManTexas

I think you would have to sketch this up.

Again, please excuse me being novice at this stuff. I wanted to copy and paste images of what I am talking about. But, I am barely computer literate! HaHa! But the City Hall images are easily found using the “google Machine”. Someone pleae feel free to post images of what I am saying if you wish. Again, sorry for lamo post without images.

NOLA68

Again, please excuse me being novice at this stuff. I wanted to copy and paste images of what I am talking about. But, I am barely computer literate! HaHa! But the City Hall images are easily found using the “google Machine”. Someone pleae feel free to post images of what I am saying if you wish. Again, sorry for lamo post without images.

I think it is difficult for people to visualize things that other’s are thinking. I do not see a spoon, but am open to someone pointing it out.
In order to post images, you need some sort of image posting site, then you have to link to the image using the Img tag that you can see when posting a comment. It’s a bit cumbersome, but that’s the way it works.

gManTexas

Gotcha, seeing that now. What does this tell us?

I really don’t know if it tells us anything. I just have been studying the image and I noticed it. I don’t recall anyone every mentioning it. I’m just throwing it out there, so some of you hunters who are way smarter than me, might read something into it.
I see other stuff too not mentioned, but not sure if there is any significance. I though the spoon was at least significant enough to point out.

NOLA68

I really don’t know if it tells us anything. I just have been studying the image and I noticed it. I don’t recall anyone every mentioning it. I’m just throwing it out there, so some of you hunters who are way smarter than me, might read something into it.
I see other stuff too not mentioned, but not sure if there is any significance. I though the spoon was at least significant enough to point out.

This is the right place to share theories. You never know what might be helpful.

Using the grid on image 7, go to M5. You should be able to recognize the feeding end of a spoon with the tip of the mask handle right in the center of it. The handle of the spoon would be to the left of the hand (M3). I first thought the “feeding end” was an eye; but now I see it as a spoon. Don’t mean to go all Salvador Dali on everyone; but, to me it looks like a spoon.

Also worth observing: check out an image of N.O. Children’s museum. The archs of the windows and the doors look very similar to the archs on the clock. And, at least in the images I have seen, there is a fair amount turquoise colored doors and window trim. This building is located in the CBD of New Orleans near all the other “hot spots” down there (Piazza D’Italia, Lafayette Square, St. Mary’s park, etc..).
I apologize for not inserting pictures as I have said I am not savvy enough to pull that off yet.

NOLA68

A couple other observations I have made and not seen anyone else post: Look at New Orleans City Hall building. The glass window façade strongly resembles the checkerboard backdrop of image 7. Then find a picture of the same building lit up at night and you will notice a neon light intertwined into the NEW ORLEANS CITY HALL lettering that is in the irregular shape of the MS river. And that same shape is on the leading edge of the werewolf’s cuff on his shirt. Lastly, the NO City Hall building sits on Duncan Plaza park. Look at an overhead view of the park and you will notice several oval shapes and straight lines. To me they look a lot like the shapes on the large minute hand of the clock in image 7. Jus sayin’.

duncan plaza wasnt reorganized that way till 2006…you still go there though.

JoshCornell

duncan plaza wasnt reorganized that way till 2006…you still go there though.

Not sure what you are saying about Duncan plaza’s appearance prior to 2006. I am not a professional investigator, but I do use GE and I can trace the general layout (circles) back to the earliest image in 1998. Could not tell you what it looked like in 1982 though.
I just started playing around with this thing, and got addicted to it. My wife thinks I am crazy staying up for hours at night looking at past theories and maps and images. I am not so addicted that I can’t just walk away from it though. It is real interesting to me being a NOLA native. I appreciate all the time and real sweat equity some have given to this thing. I ain’t about to go there, but I though I would offer up a couple things that I have not seen mentioned (Duncan plaza circles being the exception. I have seen it illustrated before).
Anybody got any thoughts on the relevance of the spoon, or what I interpret as a spoon?

Hi Fox…
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
After Lafitte torpedoed my Decatur theory, I started looking at another pic, but my researches dragged me back to this one. So here are some thoughts from a different angle.
First I’ll just update my map to indicate where the Bienville/Joan monuments were in BP’s day as far as I understand.
Joan
was at the Place de France at the foot of Canal St., and
Bienville
at the Bienville Plaza near the New Orleans Union railroad station on South Rampart St.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
Verse 10
Although the sign
Nearby
Speaks of Indies native
The natives still speak
Of him of Hard word in 3 Vols
I was thinking about “him of Hard word in 3 Vols” in V10, and wondered if this might be Noah Webster of dictionary fame. (I see this was also suggested previously.)
I remembered a Louis Armstrong number which goes:
You’ll find the answer if you take a look
In Mr. Webster’s dictionary book
…Louis’ answer being
Sugar
. Here’s some info on
his version
…
The lyrics also include some Narcissus-friendly lines like:
I’d make a million trips
To his [her] lips,
If I were a bee
…so I thought I’d see how the rest of it checked out with this image, since it seems impossible to say for 100% certain which image matches which verse.
The most obvious sugar connection with New Orleans is the
Sugar Bowl
at the Louisiana Superdome. (Tupperwerewolf?)
In the shadow
Of the grey giant
I wondered if the Superbowl might be the “Grey Giant”. I was interested to see that there’s a bunch of nearby streets named after the nine
Muses
, who were neighbours of Narcissus on Mount Helicon. (Three nines on the clock.) The full list of these is:
Calliope
Clio
Erato
Euterpe
Melpomene
Polyhymnia
Terpsichore
Thalia
Urania
The Muses tend to brandish things like comedy masks and trumpets, which looked encouraging. Here’s Clio, Euterpe and Thalia.
Clio (History) has the trumpet, Thalia has the mask. I like this pic since it seems to have similar red/blue/purple colouring to the image.
* * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * *
In “Preservation”, we can find “Pres [French “near”] in Erato”. (The V looks crossed out.)
In the initial capitals of the verse, we can find “Clio”. I wondered if these letters might be regularly spaced, and found that you can reach them by taking every sixth initial starting with
C
ars. If you continue, you end up with this sequence (covering each letter once):
COLIYTOTISFOENOIFATAO
…before ending up where you started.
I was pleased to see it finish with TAO, since this crops up in other parts of the book – for instance, at the bottom-left of the same double page. It basically means:  “way”.
If meaningful, this string of letters might be interpreted in different ways. For instance, we could divide it up like this:
COLI YTO TISF OEN OIFAT AO
CLIO TOY FITS ONE AIOFT AO
(I’d prefer not to have to use the I as an L in Aloft, but I consoled myself by looking for some lofts, or attics. The Ritch Doctor is described as an MD, and located in Maryland – MD – but originally comes from “Attic Greece”. In Roman numerals, MD is 1500, and the Superbowl is at 1500 Sugar Bowl Drive. The Doctor is also shown, for no obvious reason, sitting at a desk with a key in his back. Mechanical Turk…?)
Given the Greek theme, AO could suggest Alpha & Omega.
I also like:
L
ook down
A
nd see simple roots
I
n rhapsodic man’s soil
Or
gaze north
T
oward the isle of B.
Tailor / sleeve…? Nearby Taylor Park…?
(I had this idea of the mask being pulled off clock-boy and replanted in the sleeve, like, find the spot in Taylor Park where the statue would be, or something. The Muses are daughters of Memory.)
The moon and the checkerboard suggests a game of draughts, and the Superbowl from above would fit in with that. (Draught-pieces are called “dames”, which crop up in the field guide, along with draft-dodgers.)
Other thoughts:
Speaks of Indies native
Perhaps a plant that’s native to the West/East Indies. Eg, does Sugarcane fit that description…? Might be a sign for Sugar Bowl Drive or something. I also wondered about rubber & sarsaparilla.
In rhapsodic man’s soil
Louis starred in a flick called
A Rhapsody in Black and Blue
. (cf Boogie Man field-guide reference to black & blue.)
Cars abound
Arcs…? Crescent city / Joan of Arc.
isle of B
Foibles…? Foible being the tip of a sword. Reminds me of the clock pointer, the tip of which resembles an anchor, a sword, or an Aries sign.

My problem is the clock face.

Now that Armstrong is such a mess, maybe folks will begin focusing on Lafeyette again since that is where the casque is.  lol

good to see you fox!
i do love that little boy on the mcdonough statue but everyone says you can not dig there…….when i was reading that thread i remember thinking “down to the ground”  and henry clay is there and clay can mean earth, ground…….
and if “where jewels abound” is elysian field road (or whatever, i forget now), then it would be down there in the french quarter somewhere right? after you went “15 roads”, which would make sense for the french image…………
it’s great to know you guys are still out there! it’s good to see everyone again!

Maybe you’re right but I think it’s more narrowed down than that.

I fall into the “camp” that BP gave 2 numbers for coordinates to get you to a city, and nothing more.  Any “extra” coordinates are those that you have to reach for, to get, such as reversing a 2-digit number.  In this image, I would just say 29 and 90 are the coordinates.  Reversing the 19 is a bit of a stretch for me.  I believe that the 19 is just added to the Image to “hide” the coordinates.  For example, in this Image, it makes it look like the coordinates are part of a year – 1929.  I posted above a link to the 1929 image at the Mardis Gras fountain which looks strikingly like the shape of the turquoise jewel on the clock in the Image.  If that was intentional by BP or JJP, then there is the use of the 1929 year for you.  If it was unintentional, then I think the 1929 year is just an attempt to hide the 29.
I do not believe we have ever done this exercise, but does every Image have 2 sets of coordinates, or just 1?  Perhaps going through the Images would settle this discussion.  If we have to turn numbers around to fit our needs, then that is the same as taking 982 and turning it into 289 (a train to an area code
).
What about my other questions?  Is the sleeve the Mississippi River?  I don’t see it.  I think the clock boy is a better fit.  What general area does the consensus believe contains the casque, and why?  Are we still near Preservation Hall?

Deuce

I thought it was already established that the jewel neighborhood was too far north to be a match to the lat/long from the image. Maybe I missed something.
Also, the sleeve from the arm holding the mask is a match to the Mississsippi River. Doubt it would be in the image twice.

I must have missed the part where that was “established.”
Although it is fun to go back and re-read the various threads, this thread has 75 pages, so I do not know if there is a consensus about where the casque is.
As for the sleeve matching the Mississippi River, I do not see that as a match.  If you can show me where that is, it would be appreciated.  I thought the clockboy’s butt is a pretty close match to the River.
You would think that it is not a big deal, but if we can establish that one or the other is the Mississippi River, then we know that the other one that is not the Mississippi River could be a clue to something else.
Has anyone suggested that the dog/dragon face is simply the state of Louisiana, upside down?  Both the Chicago and Cleveland images had States hidden in them.  This could be Louisiana.

I like the 19-29 as a yeardate.  Someone, I thinknit was four21thrasher or fox who found a mardi gras parade floating named “jewels abound”.  I thought looking at the list of mardi gras themes from year to year might reveal some insight.  That plays with the premise of where a particular Krewe is at midnight…if that was something we could determine with relative ease in pre-google search days.

Maybe a poor use of words on my part. I guess we can’t really say anything is established in this thing.
We have the numbers 19, 29, and 90.
The longitude for all of NO is 90.XX. The latitude ranges from 29.XX to 30.XX. Given the numbers I think we can agree that we have to use the 90 and reverse the 19 to get 90-91 for longitude. As for the latitude, we have 29. That would give us a range of 29-30 or 28-29. Can’t be the second one so we must use 29-30. Meaning anything over 30 can’t be used. That would rule out pretty much anything north of the City Park tennis courts.

I don’t think the longitude/latitude numbers are meant to be that strict. I believe they’re very macro-level clues to get you to the right city.
To support this idea, think of this: BP didn’t have GPS; at best he had a World Atlas, which gave him a high-level set of general coordinates for each city. It’s hard to imagine that he intended these clues to be so precise as to exclude one part of a city, since the average reader wouldn’t have the ability to verify the exact coordinates of a given site, either.

Lets say he did only have an atlas. At the very very least the lat/long would be in tens (20, 30, 40…). Though I doubt any map would be that spread out. But for this we’ll say that’s all he had. If he wanted to generalize a location he would not use these rather precise numbers like 29. He would definitely see the latitude line for 30 degrees on any map and should know if the casque were north or south of it. Otherwise it would be too close to 30 on a cheap map to not just say “We’ll use 30.” But he used 29 which to says to me he knew the casque was south of the 30 degree line.

umm this might be a little out there but…….
st. charles street used to be nayades street…..closest meaning i could find was “naiad”……….”a type of nymph who presided over fountains, wells, springs brooks”

Good work, slaps! I don’t know if I had seen that there were 21 “rides” before either, although we have speculated about it before. This is an intriguing confirmation! The three who stand watch might be the three little pigs, which we know are in the park. But are they at the 11th position? (in the middle of twenty-one from end to end). We need someone on the ground.
I also like your “namesakes” theory. This is the first theory about namesakes that I could actually believe.
Exciting!

http://files.asme.org/ASMEORG/Communiti … s/3106.pdf
just showing how the switch stops from the streetcars look like the ones in the image
maybe it has something to do with stops on the little train or the train garden or the real streetcar stop
miniature train:
” ..miniature train that provides a
15
minute ride through the southwestern quarter of the park, to Bayou St. John, and back. “

look fox,
(thinkinjg of “namesakes”)
what if it’s not by the statue but by the historical marker.  it has the same shape ( i know, all the historical markers have that shape
), but in this photo you can see the peter pan guy right behind the marker..
just like in the image..
http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image … 4135&gid=3
the only bad thing…….says it was dedicated in 1985………….
i had been looking at the allard plantation sign at city park because it had “the spirit of 76” on it (mentioned in the book)  (by the beauregard statue, his horse is standing on 3 legs, lol ) (Spirit of ’76 is on the little sign at the bottom)
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM9G … Plantation
(erected 1968)
and the dixie pixie
http://www.waymarking.com/gallery/image … c3b07e83ec
or the fauborg treme sign……………………treme is “slovenian” for “3”
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM63 … ourg_Treme
i don’t think i’d ever read that storyland had
“21”
rides before, always tried to find how many storybook characters there were……..so this make it interesting:
“Built in the 50’s by master float builders Storyland boasts of
21
rides,…”
http://www.waymarking.com/waymarks/WM7D … _Louisiana
http://www.tripadvisor.com/Travel-g6086 … yland.html
“This place is perfect if you’re visiting New Orleans with smaller children. The larger city park in which the amusement park is located is beautiful.  There’s a nice museum, a sculpture garden, ponds, lakes, playgrounds, etc. and it’s easy to get to from the French Quarter. Take the
Canal trolley line (a treat in itself for children) labeled “city park”
(not the streetcar labeled “cemetaries”) north to the
end of the line
and walk about
fifteen
minutes into the park to get to Storyland. “
i’m thinking maybe the carousel (for the circle in the image), i read where only 3 of the animals “stand”(lion, giraffe and camel), the rest are “flying”, and like we noticed years ago, the horse in the block (louisiana map) looks like the flying horses
“The carousel figures are of
three type
s:
standers
, with
three
feet on the ground; jumpers, with all four feet in the air; and prancers with the two hind legs earthbound…”
http://blog.nola.com/times-picayune/200 … _agai.html
or popps bandstand or fountain…..”popp’s…………..namesakes (named after your parent?, reunions, families……it’s circular also
wonder if there is a historical marker “near” these  🙂
i do like these historical marker, most of them have the word
“site”
on them.
http://www.hmdb.org/marker.asp?marker=21859
LOOK AT THIS GUYS!
i was looking up the st. charles railway line markers and reading about the streetcar lines…………this site mentions
NAMESAKES
STREET
scroll down to Canal street line, 1st paragraph
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Streetcars_in_New_Orleans
canal street line ends at the beauregard statue……….look at the pics
http://web.presby.edu/~jtbell/transit/NewOrleans/Canal/
CANAL STREET LINE ON CANAL STREET—-NAMESAKES
i guess the st. charles line where it meets st. charles street would be “namesakes” too
here are the streetcar lines:
http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en&ie … 7&t=h&z=13
the circles for the turnarounds could be the circle in the image…or…….the st charles line does have half a circle……and it would be “travel straight and then turn left into lafayette or audubon park—-it goes to armstrong park too
the canal street line would “travel straight, then turn right into city park
like in the “solved” ones
the lines in the circle (in the image)  could be for the street car “lines” in the roads

Lafayette Square does seem to include so many confirmers.
Is it possible that the lifght lavender area of the sleeve of the zombie
turned upside down, may be the sihouette of a distinctly shaped tree in the park?
While we’re at it, we should be scrutinizing the “wrinkles” of the hand.
AP

I do see the resemblance between statue-boy and clock-boy, but it doesn’t seem strong enough to me to make me believe Lafayette Park is the place. What happened to the hat? The socks? Remember also that the “Lake Michigan” lady in P5 was a darn good likeness of the real thing, and she was a good block away from the casque site and across the railroad tracks.
As for why Story Land had everyone so hot and bothered, it’s the giant narcissus. I mean… geez, a giant narcissus! Look at P7. That match is just as good if not better than the clock-boy match.

fox

a)
Where M and B are set in stone
referred to the names of Mozart and Beethoven carved in a building facade {as told by BP}… now, how on earth does that get you to Grant Park, much less Chicago itself?  It doesn’t!
b)
Beneath two countries
There is still debate over this first line.  As quoted by Egbert for his interview with the Cleveland Plain Dealer “Zinn opens
The Secret
and reads the first line of the verse. ‘Beneath two countries.’  He looks at the camera.  ‘We’re thinking Greece and Italy.’ {making reference to the back of the Greek Cultural Garden & the nearby Italian Garden}.  And this leads directly to Cleveland’s Greek Cultural Garden how?
Both of those 2 1st lines were not located/solved until long after finding the: City; Park; and quite possibly the burial site.

From the water tower driving down michigan avenue in a straight line you come to  M&B, the next  line leads you to Grant park which is the next left after M&B
In Cleveland its a straight line to Liberty Ave turn left and the road curves along all the country gardens. seek the one with the two pillars and then go to the nearest point where you can stand between two countries.
Throwing my 2 cents into the middle of your discussion, you both make some very good points and some very weak points…
Explore, throw out ideas, everybody should try to tear them down, the ones left standing are going to be pretty good…
The acid test on lafayette squre is of course, dig up a casque there…

fox

Not so.  We have believed for ALONG time, due to the lat/lon {which I found}, that this P went to N.O.  For the longest of time, we have been mainly focusing on either City Park or Jackson Sq area because of possible tie ins to another V.  It was not until the Sarmiento quote was found that we even found ourselves around Lafayette Square.  Once around there, low and behold, clock boy.  That sure sounds like a reasonable and logical way of following clues and not just chasing pictures.

fox

1)  Yes, I know there are beads everywhere, but don’t you think that at the most prominent judging spot…the beads would be much more ‘abound’?

fox

3)  Never claimed this line to be a direct link to Lafayette Square, but together with other lines of the V and items in the P, Lafayette Square sure seems more and more plausable.  As long as you are on the topic of “first lines” = “starting locations”, let’s review the 2 that have been found.

fox

Basically useless until you have a strong landmark to start from?  Maybe they are describing said landmark as my brick wall theory does.  Yes, they could fit a ton of different situations but coupled with interpretations of lines of the V as well as P images, that list is narrowed down drastically.  The 3 stand watch refer to the 3 statues in the park…completely seperate from the 15 rows and center of 21.

fox

Once again…coupled with blah blah blah, etc…  Using your reasoning, any line in any V could refer to ANY park in any city and for that matter, tons of areas nowhere near parks.  Well, yeah.  I really don’t consider Wednesdays in the Park to be filler.

fox

That is a good idea but who knows if it is correct.  Once again, never claimed this to point directly to Lafayette Sq.  True, “Without it, any argument for a specific park is pretty weak.”  including also Armstrong Park, City Park or any other park or non-park area of N.O… but coupled with the blah blah blah….

fox

That definitely wasn’t nailed down but they somehow found the casque.  So you see, even if the beads adorning the trees along Lafayette Sq are not the ‘jewels abound’ it does not definitively mean that this park is disqualified as a possible site.

fox

We have to lock on to something my friend, and right now Lafayette Square has my vote.  So far this park has more solid leads, confirmers and explanations/solutions then do any other nearby parks.

Again – the boy in the statue is not a great match for the picture. His posture is -not- the same as the man in the clock face, look at his arm. He doesn’t have the socks, he’s got no hat…it’s possible but not great. And saying that one clue references the St. Charles hotel, but you have no idea how to make the jump from there to the square other than by saying “there’s a lot of beads there during Mardi Gras” IS a stretch.
I’m sorry, but no. I think there has to be a better explanation than “jewels are beads – there are beads here during mardi gras, it must mean here.”
I think you misunderstood me. I was not saying that all solutions use “first lines” = “starting locations” and actually not even this one. I was saying that because that line is followed by the most specific instructions, I think it’s safe to assume some things:
1) that line gives us the exact place to start looking for where to follow those instructions
2) that line is the second most specific clue out of all of them, (2nd to last step) and that’s why we need context for it, which should be provided elsewhere in the verse.
Yes, basically useless, until you have solid connections from each part of the verse to the next. Btw, you just speculated that there ‘might’ be 21 bricks on the top – that’s a quite a jump from looking at a picture that just shows a small section of it.
Are you referring to the concert series that has been going on less than a year?
1) No kidding it includes the other parks – that’s why I haven’t said “it’s definitely in this park! let’s go dig!”
2) Once again, my point is, your only tentative links are the clues which we (probably) are supposed to follow last. Those are going to be the ones that are easiest to match to the wrong location without solid context from other clues.
No, it doesn’t definitively mean it’s disqualified, but it means we have very little reason to think that it is, and a decent reason to believe that it’s not, based on the characteristics of the other casque sites.
We do?
Tally of your “solid” leads: jewels = beads, statue of a boy that somewhat resembles the man in the clock. Speculative match that a brick wall is 15/21. Park has 3 of something.
The other solutions had many visual clues from the park – not just one. And the explanations for the verse were solid and almost obvious in hindsight. Lafayette Square seems extremely weak to me based on that alone.
But if you are so convinced…go dig! I’m going to keep looking.

You might not care if it’s a government building, but the police will. I am not too excited at the prospect of trying to dig up any public parks in N.O., knowing their PD’s reputation. But there is no way in hell I’d try and dig in Lafayette
Square.
I am very sure that Mr. Priess didn’t either – because it doesn’t fit his MO. Just look at the sites for the 2 solutions that we have!
Yes, we were excited about the statue too, until we went there, and then we used some plain old common sense. First of all, it’s not a perfect match, by any means. But more importantly – try to find a
good
match for -everything- in the verse. If you have the right place, this shouldn’t be difficult. But it’s not, because unfortunately, it is at best a landmark on the way to somewhere else.
You’ve got one questionable visual reference, which doesn’t mean much. Armstrong Park has a lot more going for it if we’re going to just throw the verse out the window and try to solve it only using the picture.
If you all think you’ve solved it – there are 5 sections to the verse as I see it. Let’s see meaningful connections that lead you straight from the verse to Lafayette Square, and then to the digging spot. Then go dig it up, disguised as city workers (yeah right), I’ll happily admit I was wrong.
More likely, you’ll be posting bail.

is forest the same person as forest_blight?
just trying to keep everybody straight in my head…
tough to do along with all the voices….

Forrest

But more importantly – try to find a
good
match for -everything- in the verse. If you have the right place, this shouldn’t be difficult.

Kind of thought that was what we are doing here.
At the place where jewels abound
Lafayette Square is one of the biggest judging areas of the Mardi Gras Parade.  This is usually held in late February or early March.  When we were there
5
months later, there were still tons of beads adorning the trees all along St Charles Ave.  I think that these are the jewels…
Fifteen rows down to the ground
In the middle of twenty-one
From end to end
I believe this to be the exact spot to dig…ala my brick wall theory.  In my opinion {as well as shecrab’s} this theory is as solid as a brick wall
Only three stand watch
Only 3 statues stand in Lafayette park
As the sound of friends
Fills the afternoon hours
Every Wednesday afternoon at 5pm is Wednesday in the park…filled with music, partying, friends, etc…
Here is a sovereign people
Who build palaces to shelter
Their heads for a night!
Sarmiento’s quote that got us to N.O. and more specifically, St Charles Hotel…which I have explained earlier
Gnomes admire
Fays delight
Not sure yet.  Possibly referring to LaFAYette himself
The namesakes meeting
Near this site.
Could also be referring to Lafayette or even the St Charles Hotel
You see, it isnt like we are stuck on this park simply because of the clock boy…there is plenty in the V that gets us there as well.

Heh – no. We’re different. But the namesakes apparently are meeting on this site!

fox

Kind of thought that was what we are doing here.
At the place where jewels abound
Lafayette Square is one of the biggest judging areas of the Mardi Gras Parade.  This is usually held in late February or early March.  When we were there
5
months later, there were still tons of beads adorning the trees all along St Charles Ave.  I think that these are the jewels…
Fifteen rows down to the ground
In the middle of twenty-one
From end to end
I believe this to be the exact spot to dig…ala my brick wall theory.  In my opinion {as well as shecrab’s} this theory is as solid as a brick wall  ::)
Only three stand watch
Only 3 statues stand in Lafayette park
As the sound of friends
Fills the afternoon hours
Every Wednesday afternoon at 5pm is Wednesday in the park…filled with music, partying, friends, etc…
Here is a sovereign people
Who build palaces to shelter
Their heads for a night!
Sarmiento’s quote that got us to N.O. and more specifically, St Charles Hotel…which I have explained earlier
Gnomes admire
Fays delight
Not sure yet.  Possibly referring to LaFAYette himself  ???
The namesakes meeting
Near this site.
Could also be referring to Lafayette or even the St Charles Hotel
You see, it isnt like we are stuck on this park simply because of the clock boy…there is plenty in the V that gets us there as well.
8)

I respectfully disagree. You started at the location, not with the verse – and most of that stuff is a real stretch.
The first and most important line for a specific starting location (to follow dig instructions from) is the first line: “at the place where jewels abound.” Saying you saw beads in the trees is pretty weak – there are beads all over New Orleans during and after mardi gras.  St. Charles Ave is long and could lead to several other parks, as well. This is not any kind of specific link to Lafeyette Square.
The next 4 lines are definitely specific landmark -> digging spot instructions. No question. But they are basically useless until you have a strong landmark to start from. Until then they could fit a ton of different situations.
The 2 lines after that “sound of friends” could easily refer to any park in New Orleans, and for that matter tons of areas nowhere near parks. No specific link to Lafayette Square, by any means, if it is taken literally as you explain it. This leads me to believe it has some other reference hidden in it – I doubt that 2 lines of any verse is just filler.
The 3 lines after that are the St. Charles Hotel reference that my friend discovered. (Believe me, we immediately investigated parks in the vicinity.) This could very well be the first starting point from which we make our way to the final spot. But that is not a solid link to Lafayette Square – we need something between the hotel and the square to get us there.
It is also what we use to link the verse to New Orleans, and image 7, and could very well be for that purpose only.
The last 4 lines (“namesakes’ meeting”) are what I expect to give us the context for “where jewels abound.” They describe an intersection. I think these 4 lines gives the general area to find the reference in “where jewels abound”. But we don’t have a very convincing for Lafayette Square (or anything else) from this section. Without it, any argument for a specific park is pretty weak.
I think every section is vital and if you have the solution, their meanings should be obvious. So far Lafayette Square only has a few vague possibilities, and a huge strike against it, which is that it would be very impractical to dig directly in front a US Federal Courthouse.
So instead of locking onto Lafayette Square, let’s try and nail down the meanings of the sections which we are most likely supposed to start with in order to end up there (or somewhere more digger friendly.)

Unknown

Unknown:
The first and most important line for a specific starting location (to follow dig instructions from) is the first line: “at the place where jewels abound.” Saying you saw beads in the trees is pretty weak – there are beads all over New Orleans during and after mardi gras.  St. Charles Ave is long and could lead to several other parks, as well. This is not any kind of specific link to Lafeyette Square.

There is only one way to solve this argument. GO DIG. If nothing is found, or if it proves an impossible task for some reason, then I’ll consider other places. Right now, I’m totally with Fox and Lafayette Sq. as a location. I think we’re looking TOO Hard right now for confirmers, when this wasn’t supposed to be so difficult.
For instance: when Forrest asserts that:
This is simply untrue. The reviewing stands for the Mardi gras are placed there. That’s a
specific
link to jewels if the jewels refer to the beads.
it’s a simple, clean connection.
And even if it’s not the RIGHT connection, in this case, NEW ORLEANS ITSELF is “the place where jewels abound” because it has an entire neighborhood that have “jewel-named” streets–as well as four parks likewise. That makes this line either a strong connection–or an even
stronger
connection. We absolutely know we’re in the right city either way.
I think Fox’s entire post with the solution is not only correct, but accurate. And there’s only one way to prove it–dig it up. If I had the time and money to take a trip, I’d already be there.
Oh…and I need to add one more thing: that clock boy does not have the hat or the stockings–but that’s fine with me. The statue of Liberty’s face in Image 12 doesn’t have the torch or the crown; there is no Centaur in Cleveland and no Leprechaun with a castle hat in Chicago. How else do you disguise what is a very distinctive sillhouette and shape unless you change it’s decorative elements? It is necessary to mislead–to misdirect–to make something known but not totally identify it when you’re doing a puzzle of this nature. I think it’s the absolute BEST match we’ve ever seen for that clock boy. The posture, the TYPE of statue–even the tmie period are simply right ON.

It’s simple, but weak, and far from clean.
We already know the verse is NO, from the literary reference.
Have fun, guys.

shecrab

This is simply untrue. The reviewing stands for the Mardi gras are placed there. That’s a
specific
link to jewels if the jewels refer to the beads.
it’s a simple, clean connection.
And even if it’s not the RIGHT connection, in this case, NEW ORLEANS ITSELF is “the place where jewels abound” because it has an entire neighborhood that have “jewel-named” streets–as well as four parks likewise. That makes this line either a strong connection–or an even
stronger
connection. We absolutely know we’re in the right city either way.

shecrab

Oh…and I need to add one more thing: that clock boy does not have the hat or the stockings–but that’s fine with me. The statue of Liberty’s face in Image 12 doesn’t have the torch or the crown; there is no Centaur in Cleveland and no Leprechaun with a castle hat in Chicago. How else do you disguise what is a very distinctive sillhouette and shape unless you change it’s decorative elements? It is necessary to mislead–to misdirect–to make something known but not totally identify it when you’re doing a puzzle of this nature. I think it’s the absolute BEST match we’ve ever seen for that clock boy. The posture, the TYPE of statue–even the tmie period are simply right ON.

Lightly agree with you here- its a possibility- but on the found casques when the clues are explained you go Ah!! sure!!!  this is just sort of an OK, I’ll go with that for lack of a better idea…
While I agree it matches New Orleans in general, at this point we dont need a city confirmer, we need an exact spot to start the ground search.  At the spot where jewels abound (IMHO) needs to resolve to a specifc unique spot…
This I agree totally – the two match… dont know if that means dig here, though… But I believe. the harlequin in the image represents this statue
Even if somebody cant dig yet ,we should at least be able to get good fotos of everything in the park, its not that big!!

Forrest

I respectfully disagree. You started at the location, not with the verse – and most of that stuff is a real stretch.

Forrest

The first and most important line for a specific starting location (to follow dig instructions from) is the first line: “at the place where jewels abound.” Saying you saw beads in the trees is pretty weak – there are beads all over New Orleans during and after mardi gras.  St. Charles Ave is long and could lead to several other parks, as well. This is not any kind of specific link to Lafeyette Square.

Forrest

The next 4 lines are definitely specific landmark -> digging spot instructions. No question. But they are basically useless until you have a strong landmark to start from. Until then they could fit a ton of different situations.

Forrest

The 2 lines after that “sound of friends” could easily refer to any park in New Orleans, and for that matter tons of areas nowhere near parks. No specific link to Lafayette Square, by any means, if it is taken literally as you explain it. This leads me to believe it has some other reference hidden in it – I doubt that 2 lines of any verse is just filler.

Forrest

The 3 lines after that are the St. Charles Hotel reference that my friend discovered. (Believe me, we immediately investigated parks in the vicinity.) This could very well be the first starting point from which we make our way to the final spot. But that is not a solid link to Lafayette Square – we need something between the hotel and the square to get us there.

Forrest

The last 4 lines (“namesakes’ meeting”) are what I expect to give us the context for “where jewels abound.” They describe an intersection. I think these 4 lines gives the general area to find the reference in “where jewels abound”. But we don’t have a very convincing for Lafayette Square (or anything else) from this section. Without it, any argument for a specific park is pretty weak.

Forrest

I think every section is vital and if you have the solution, their meanings should be obvious. So far Lafayette Square only has a few vague possibilities, and a huge strike against it, which is that it would be very impractical to dig directly in front a US Federal Courthouse.

TenByThirteen

Also, as for any speculation regarding the phrase “Where M & B are set in stone” I did read through some of the posts and it was noted that Byron make reference to the names of Mozart and Beethoven carved in a building facade. However, our group of five — that would be Shadowrunner; Eric, Dave, myself, my brother; Tim and Dan all took the M&B reference to mean the statues. It helped us solve it, so if anyone wants to claim otherwise….

Forrest

So instead of locking onto Lafayette Square, let’s try and nail down the meanings of the sections which we are most likely supposed to start with in order to end up there (or somewhere more digger friendly.)

Not so.  We have believed for ALONG time, due to the lat/lon {which I found}, that this P went to N.O.  For the longest of time, we have been mainly focusing on either City Park or Jackson Sq area because of possible tie ins to another V.  It was not until the Sarmiento quote was found that we even found ourselves around Lafayette Square.  Once around there, low and behold, clock boy.  That sure sounds like a reasonable and logical way of following clues and not just chasing pictures.
1)  Yes, I know there are beads everywhere, but don’t you think that at the most prominent judging spot…the beads would be much more ‘abound’?
2)  Sure, St Charles could lead to several other parks as well…but let’s not forget that it also leads right past Lafayette Square.
3)  Never claimed this line to be a direct link to Lafayette Square, but together with other lines of the V and items in the P, Lafayette Square sure seems more and more plausable.  As long as you are on the topic of “first lines” = “starting locations”, let’s review the 2 that have been found.
a)
Where M and B are set in stone
referred to the names of Mozart and Beethoven carved in a building facade {as told by BP}… now, how on earth does that get you to Grant Park, much less Chicago itself?  It doesn’t!
b)
Beneath two countries
There is still debate over this first line.  As quoted by Egbert for his interview with the Cleveland Plain Dealer “Zinn opens
The Secret
and reads the first line of the verse. ‘Beneath two countries.’  He looks at the camera.  ‘We’re thinking Greece and Italy.’ {making reference to the back of the Greek Cultural Garden & the nearby Italian Garden}.  And this leads directly to Cleveland’s Greek Cultural Garden how?
Both of those 2 1st lines were not located/solved until long after finding the: City; Park; and quite possibly the burial site.
c)
Fortress north Cold as glass
= Hermann Park in Houston how?
d)
If Thucydides is North of Xenophon
= ties in nicely with Boston…but where?
e)
Lane Two twenty two
= stumped big time using your theory
f)
Of all the romance retold
=  ??? not until later lines do we learn our city may be Charleston…but where?
g)
View the three stories of Mitchell
= sounds like Atlanta to me but alas…looks to be somehow related to Milwaukee
h)
The first chapter Written in water
= this one actually does lead us right to the entrance of FOY
i)
Pass two friends of octave
= with lots of research, this one could start us at the WB Monument on our path to the Elizabethan Gardens.
Basically useless until you have a strong landmark to start from?  Maybe they are describing said landmark as my brick wall theory does.  Yes, they could fit a ton of different situations but coupled with interpretations of lines of the V as well as P images, that list is narrowed down drastically.  The 3 stand watch refer to the 3 statues in the park…completely seperate from the 15 rows and center of 21.
Once again…coupled with blah blah blah, etc…  Using your reasoning, any line in any V could refer to ANY park in any city and for that matter, tons of areas nowhere near parks.  Well, yeah.  I really don’t consider Wednesdays in the Park to be filler.
Yes, I understand your friend discovered that…and such a huge discovery it is.  I never claimed it to be a solid link to Lafayette Square but you yourself said “(Believe me, we immediately investigated parks in the vicinity.)” and I am sure Lafayette Square was one of them.  That quote did not just get us to N.O., but to a very specific area of the Crescent City which happens to be right there with Lafayette Sq.
That is a good idea but who knows if it is correct.  Once again, never claimed this to point directly to Lafayette Sq.  True, “Without it, any argument for a specific park is pretty weak.”  including also Armstrong Park, City Park or any other park or non-park area of N.O… but coupled with the blah blah blah….
Every section Vital?  Really?  Did Sir Egg concretely nail down each and every line/word/meaning of the V and every single image of the P before heading out?  I don’t even know if Greece & Italy were the correct solution of that line.  Let’s also turn to our good friend TenByThirteen who was one of the group that found the Chicago casque who said:
That definitely wasn’t nailed down but they somehow found the casque.  So you see, even if the beads adorning the trees along Lafayette Sq are not the ‘jewels abound’ it does not definitively mean that this park is disqualified as a possible site.
We have to lock on to something my friend, and right now Lafayette Square has my vote.  So far this park has more solid leads, confirmers and explanations/solutions then do any other nearby parks.  I would bet if we nailed this thing down in Lafayette Sq, you could even get employees of the feared Federal Bldg across the street to help you unearth it.

very soon my man. we are working on getting permission for here and boston.

how about this idea?
at the place where jewels abound—————————–THE GARDEN DISTRICT–carondelet, josephine, magazine and louisiana avenue
http://www.aaccessmaps.com/show/map/us/ … gardendist
fifteen rows down to the ground —————————–AUDUBON PARK  (olmsted design) (from the garden district———-15 roads, sure looks close, and ends with HENRY CLAY ST. , (clay-earth, ground)
in the middle of 21——————the stops on the streetcar line,  or the #11 shelter
http://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/p … shelter-11
from end to end———–the park?? (i keep hearing friend to friend) (counting 1st and last stop, 21)
http://www.trekexchange.com/files/NO_St … ur_Map.pdf
only 3 stand watch—-gumbel fountain?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/globalized … otostream/
as the sound of friends fills the the afternoon hours———–woodland creatures, zoo
“ere is a sovereign people who build…..”—————————– st. charles hotel and st. charles avenue
gnomes admire, faye’s delight,
the namesakes meeting near this site——————————st. charles avenue and st. charles streetcar

fox is still out there and he’s a hunter and stercox and forest are both hunters and willhouse and boogieman and cthree are hunters and ck and tyler and AP are  hunters, and egbert!  so if these guys ever get a chance to go to any of these places they will.   so, there is still a chance something we say will make them say….that seems reasonable………….right?  🙂
and shadowrunner and loph are probably still hunting…………..
lafitte is in new orleans and she can let us know if anything we say sounds promising right lafitte?
do you guys think i’m focusing too much on the st. charles streetcar?? it’s the only thing i’ve read in new orleans that mentioned “namesakes”
the thing is , the picture has pictures of 3 different parks…….

I’ve said this before, but I’m saying it again now–and it is only my opinion, not based on fact or even experience. However, that said–
I believe that when BP said he wanted us to use both the verse and the p. for solving these location riddles, he was being deliberately vague to make it more interesting and mysterious. Therefore, any attempt to quantify the verses by saying we “should” have this many or that many clues is a futile exercise. I really don’t think quantification can be used here, and I don’t think it will be proven even when they are solved. Some p.’s have state images–some don’t. Some v.’s have literary references, some don’t. Some have quotes. One has an anacrostic. Logic would dictate that just because there is one incident of “clue type A” in a verse, that it does not necessarily follow there will be the same “clue type A”  in another verse.
A bit more philosophy:
Having lived through the times, having been an ardent follower of the authors’ writings in other publications and in other venues, I can tell you that their minds were probably working a lot more
organically
than logically. I can really get excited when the anacrostic SELOY is shown–but not quite as excited about the Edwin/Edwina twins that were mentioned in the Sarmiento. I think it’s far more likely that he was referring not to those babies, but to Edwin Harleston and his adopted daughter Edwina–whom he RENAMED Edwina when she was adopted. Edwin Harleston, an African-American painter, lived right down by White Point Gardens in Charleston, and is a sort of local ‘folk hero’ there. To me, that was more to the point than the Blyden connection. However, it’s convenient that both still point to Charleston–and yet–it’s maybe just as likely that he used the Blyden connection because he had already used the Sarmiento book!
My point here is, (after all this rambling! I know!!) is that we can’t afford to be
too
nit-picky.
I think a
preponderance of the evidence
is all that is necessary to join a verse with a picture.
And provide a location. (example: the rebus “millstone, walking stick, key. We read this as Milwaukee, but why aren’t we reading it as Stone-cane Key? Becuz there’s another image from MILWAUKEE in the P.!)
I really believe that is how this puzzle was designed. At the time this book was published, the armchair treasure-hunting culture was in its infancy–Masquerade had only been published a scant 2 years prior to The Secret. No one (other than Kit Williams, of course) had a clear vision of how a hunt ought to be made at all, and there were no past experiences to use as reference. That’s probably why it looks as uneven as it does.
It actually works to our advantage that it is so plastic. We can use vaguer and more wide-ranging clues. But it also defies quantification. From looking hard at the two solved casque locations, we can see that there are more clues than we need in BOTH verse and picture. And words are very, er, malleably defined. I suppose that’s why this puzzle is more attractive to me than, say, ATT was (which broke apart once the SINGLE method was discovered.) It’s also probalby the reason these casques have remained hidden for so long.
Anyway, rant over…just throwing in my Two Cents’ worth again.

i’m somewhat expecting the “face” motif or “arch” type structure to be nearest the casque and within a block or line of sight area.  The roman numerals seem like a stronger clue than just being numbers on the clock.  The reverse space on either side of the clock looks like it composes to be in the shape of the McDonogh statue with climbing Clockboy.  Hmm, that’s two image references for McDonogh and the “19” being shared as an Armstrong/McDonogh school for a third reference.
What are those flowers all about?
I think there’s a levee wall matching one of the sides of the clock outline.  I need to look closer.
okay, it does look very similar, the levee wall west of Jourdan st next to the inlet with two rising bridges…or is it a locke?
Something more interesting to me is the clock hands, the small hand looks like it’s more of a 15 than a 3 (III).  I think it’s a clue to something related to or in Algiers (15th Ward).  I just read that McDonogh owned most of that land.
The bulging sections in the background of the clock might represent the bulging banks of the river against the levees.

Maybe that bulge idea is just our clue to look for Canal St.

The best ideas I’ve heard for the 19 so far are 91 reversed (coordinate pair with 90), 1929 date for the Municipal Auditorium in Louis Armstrong Park (apparently the destination for the Mardi Gras floats passing through the arch), and your McDonough #19 being Armstrong school.
I think it’s a simple trail from Jackson Square to Louis Armstrong Park. (The route is down St Peter’s, past Preservation Hall, which accounts for the Twain reference – he wrote about St Peter’s in Rome in “Innocents Abroad”. Interestingly, Sarmiento also wrote about St Peter’s – he compared the dome of the St Charles Hotel to it. Can’t remember where I found the quote now – not sure if it’s included in “Abroad in America”.)
The tricky part will be finding someone willing to try digging for it…

Trainor – I thought when I was in NO once that I noticed around jackson square that there were stations where you could tie up horses, that were statues of jockeys (the equivalent of lawn jockeys for the street)
can you verify?
wilhouse

remember guys, the first lines in the solved ones were roads,
audubon park road,
in the middle of twenty
– one from end to end
twenty minus 2
…………….the golf course,   twenty minus 2,
18
🙂
woodland creatures

http://unacknowledgedlegislatorsofthewo … chive.html
this site says the fountain is at the back of the park (“quite hidden”)
“Under discussion is a commission proposal to expand the zoo area toward Magazine Street, a move that would push the zoo fence further into the open, free green space of the park and, in the process, swallow up the Hyams memorial. “
http://epicroadtrips.us/2003/summer/nol … /p4027.htm
“The fountain — which is actually a wading pool, not a water-spewing extravaganza — s
its just outside the fence of the zoo on the river side of Magazine Street
and it is famous primarily for the shame its Audubon Park caretakers have bestowed upon it. In the 10 years I have lived next to the park, it has never worked”
it could still be the other fountain by st. charles avenue where the st. charles streetcar runs:
http://www.flickr.com/photos/globalized … otostream/
then the hyams statue is on the west of magazine and the la bore statue is on the east off of magazine..(by the golf course) and in between is the nature institute and the zoo
“here is a sovereign people who build palaces to
SHELTER their
heads for a night!”
dual purpose word?  one of the shelters in audubon park!!!
http://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/parks/rentals
only “THREE”  are available for rentals, #10, #11 and #12
http://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/p … shelter-11
http://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/p … shelter-10
http://www.auduboninstitute.org/visit/p … shelter-12
#10 has a band “stand” and it is closer to the hyams statue and the “bore” statue , i think

WhiteRabbit – try this in Google Earth or in Google Maps (green arrow will point at the fountain):
29 55’25.89″N, 90 07’44.09″W

This page
says: “Her aunt, Sara Hyams, donated the children’s fountain in either Audubon Park or City Park. That fountain does not exist today”, so it’s possible the one in AP is gone. I’ve emailed them to ask.
Like the hour hand, the swimming clock-boy could be indicating XIV.
Seems to be a statue of a boy looking down into the water at one end, which fits the Narcissus theme.
gnomes admire / gem roman side – roman numerals…?
Time to count those slabs.

hmm, we know it did in 2002 ’cause bob vila was there, lol
that person wasn’t really checking on the fountains, just the family lines
but it doesn’t matter if it is one of the shelters
whiterabbit, these guys are listening…..we just have to convince them, they think we’re “out there” (or me anyway)…………lol
but that’s our job……..

(Random thoughts – if this was a fountain, I’m wondering where the water came out. Louis looks like one of these white figures. His mouth is fifteen rows down the page, counting the lines, in the middle, and the 21st letter.
Fifteen rows down to the ground
In the middle of twenty-one
I’ve previously thought it might be some kind of “moon” clue, though it could also be the missing middle letter of Audubon, or connected with the fountain theme. The numbers could also refer to paving stones etc.)

and if the whole page is a map, then the mouth and the bottom of the top of the clock face is magazine road and the jewel is up by st. charles avenue and that fountain, and the #11 shelter, right?
maybe by the gate>…gotta check to see if it has a lock on them….’cause it is shaped like a lock…….
…but i kinda like it better closer to the zoo and nature institute
and guys, didn’t you like that
MINUS SIGN
, instead of a
HYPHEN
in the verse    ;D
now i’m trying to analyze the word hyphen,……..if only there was an “s”……..high fence…lol
in the middle of twenty————-#10 shelter
from end to end——magazine road
on google earth, it looks like 3 trees on the east side the park by magazine road
i only see 2 lions at the aquarium entrance on zoo drive.
in the middle of twen
T
yone……..the letter
T
for the tea room drive
upper
city park was supposed to be it’s name……………t
upper
werewolves
and from the book:  “perfectly ordinary bore”……audubon park land was owned by Etienne de
Boré,
“Audubon Park’s present form largely follows a design drafted by John Charles Olmsted…”
“the park features sports fields and picnic facilities along the Mississippi River, in an area called Riverview Park.[3] This riverside portion of Audubon Park is known colloquially as the Fly[4].”
fire fly…….fairies?
“the ring road” could be the circle in the clock face
‘
maybe the audubon research center for endangered species ……………for namesakes………’cause the fair folk are endangered
i like the name “avenger field” (changed to berger now)…….think it’s close to the “bore” statue
oh, and i forgot…….clay avenue (my grandfather’s clock song) is on right side bottom of audubon park
don’t know how long the cascade stables have been there but they have been giving lessons since 1981
sure wish we could find the meaning of that horse story in the book…..was thinking maybe “4 horse (men) engine” or something
another 3:
http://goneworleans.about.com/od/parks/ … untain.htm
is this another peter pan guy?  (bird house, bird island, might be why i see all the birds in the image)
http://goneworleans.about.com/od/parks/ … -house.htm
here is another picture
http://goneworleans.about.com/b/2010/03 … -zoo-4.htm
supposed to be “aesop’s fables” by enrique alferez…..still looking for them ……..(namesakes)
or maybe the peter pan is “diana”……….
http://picasaweb.google.com/lh/photo/Ax … ZDhadS5i3A
http://www.paganspace.net/profile/Nola7 … memberList
i know you mentioned “diana” whiterabbit but when u did, i just read about it being at the port, didn’t know it was in audubon park,
i’m sorry!

tomorrow i’ll try to find something i read…….this guy had bob vila(?)  over at his house and they walked over to that fountain in audubon park…..he wanted bob villa to fix it…..but i think he just shrugged his shoulder or something……sounded like it was in pretty sad shape compared to the one in city park.

Audubon Park reckons the fountain is still there in its original position. “It is located along the Zoo fence line, near the old Zoo entrance. It follows along Magazine St.” Still can’t find it on Google maps though.
I like this fountain so much I’ve made another anagram in its honour.
“Gnomes admire, Fays delight”  ->  “Hid me amid grey flagstones”

lol, i’m liking the diana fountain more now, do you have a good picture of it? or of that bird house pic?……can’t seem to find the bas reliefs of aesop’s fables in the children village yet

You’re such a dilettante.
(Incidentally, what are the general thoughts on getting locals involved…? I was wondering whether it might be possible to get someone at the zoo to take a look.)

usually, the hunters (the ones that will actually dig) contact someone to make sure it’s ok to dig there or get permission…..i’m just armchair, out of ummmm, no way to get to these places, so maybe these other guys should respond how they did it.
wonder why the #10 on this fountain? is this the diana fountain, where is the dog?………and look the bottom looks like same shape too
http://www.flickr.com/photos/38564198@N … otostream/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/73577218@N00/4484875985/
http://www.flickr.com/photos/15254782@N08/4212254682/
maybe there are 3 cats by the gates
http://www.flickr.com/photos/amyashcraft/4465697626/
http://www.golfknickers.com/
same harlequin design……..and there’s a golf course at audubon park
or T times at the golf course…..tea room drive
and would you believe longfellow is quoted on the bandstand……..”and the night shall be filled with music, and the cares that infest the day, shall fold their tents like the arabs and silently steal away”
sure would like a better picture of this
http://goneworleans.about.com/od/parks/ … -house.htm

Giant Squid and forrest, i’m glad you’re listening to us
wanted to mention, because you said you liked coliseum square, that i found that terpsichore street goes along the square, and terpsichore’s name means “delight”………..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terpsichore
i was kindof going toward the u.s. mint because of “gnomes admire”………..gnomes and money go together, and it is a museum now, thought that was pretty interesting, but gonna check more into coliseum square now.

Slappy, that was the main reason for checking out Coliseum. Terpsichore means “delight in dance” and dance is a common thing to associate with fairies.
However, it’s a pretty small park, and we didn’t find any image matches.

thanks forrest,
i thought it interesting too, that camp street is on the other side of coliseum square, BP could have had a double meaning to “who build palaces to shelter their heads for a night”…….camping……
i’m so glad you two are there and hopefully something we say will give you two an “aha” moment.
i’m sure you’ve seen these lanterns there, but the picture is too dark for me to see, is the middle part shaped at all like our clock?
http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image … nterns.jpg
it sure looks like stars on the sidewalk in front of the children’s museum on 420 julia street, and with the dark blue doors, it reminds me of the image.

I concur with the others Squid…nicely summed up.  It is refreshing that you say “There is the boy who does bear more than a passing resemblance to the Harlequin, there’s some cuteness with the verse as well.”  Your partner in crime has been saying more and more that there is only a ‘slight’ resemblence.  Personally, I think that the McD statue is IT.
Thanks again for a good summary…

I’ve been thinking about the “horse head” thingy in P7. I realize it may be a rough likeness of Louisiana. But you’ve got to admit it also brings chess to mind, appearing like a knight on a chess-board pattern. So I Googled chess and New Orleans, one click led to another, and I found that one of the greatest chess players in history, Paul Morphy, lived in New Orleans. His house is now Brennan’s restaurant, famous for having invented Bananas Foster. Bringing us full circle, there are a few horse-head poles on the curb outside of Brennan’s.
There is a Paul Morphy St. NNW of the French Quarter, but it is small and appears residential.

forest_blight

I’ve been thinking about the “horse head” thingy in P7. I realize it may be a rough likeness of Louisiana. But you’ve got to admit it also brings chess to mind, appearing like a knight on a chess-board pattern. So I Googled chess and New Orleans, one click led to another, and I found that one of the greatest chess players in history, Paul Morphy, lived in New Orleans. His house is now Brennan’s restaurant, famous for having invented Bananas Foster. Bringing us full circle, there are a few horse-head poles on the curb outside of Brennan’s.
There is a Paul Morphy St. NNW of the French Quarter, but it is small and appears residential.

Aye, and, there are, I dunno, several thousand horse head poles in the city.

forest_blight

I’ve been thinking about the “horse head” thingy in P7. I realize it may be a rough likeness of Louisiana.

If the horsehead isn’t the outline of LA, we need to find another outline in the picture that matches. I spent a couple hours trying to do that and was unable to. I think it’s just the state outline.

My wife asked yesterday how long a drive it would be to New Orleans from our home in West Virginia.
With a great big smile I gave her a rough guess, based on a drive I made years ago to town in southern Mississippi.
Once she got the answer… that idea was quickly gone… so was the smile.

animal painter

Take a really close look at the harlequin…
It is not that he has a disfigured derriere,
It is that he is carrying something under his arm.
Whatever it is, has a notch cut out of it.

Still trying to understand why the artist drew this shape that harlequin is carrying.
Could it be a recognizable silhouette of a landmark, or could it be the outline of
a park area?  The artist is “all about detail” in his paintings…and this is a deliberate
drawing of a detail…not just a misshaped butt.

I suppose it could be a “2” along with the sleeve’s “1,” but that’s a stretch.

Take a really close look at the harlequin…
It is not that he has a disfigured derriere,
It is that he is carrying something under his arm.
Whatever it is, has a notch cut out of it.

forest_blight

…because, if they weren’t, they would, er… self-disinter, right?
Maybe our NOLA casque is floating in an eddy somewhere in Lake Pontchartrain…!

Er….
?

FB,
caskets tend actually to be full of air, (or gas,) they tend to be very very bouyant, they usually are air tight and sealed, so that if buried in ground that tends toward liquifaction they will migrate upwards.
It also happens during earthquakes out here in Calfornia, not just during floods..
The casque on the other hand was a porcelein container containing a key, in a plexiglass box.
Moisture from rain/flooding would eventually fill the box and casque with water.
We have seen from Cleveland that any casque buried where it freezes will probably be crushed by the freeze thaw cycle. This would be especially true of any casque buried within 2 feet of the surface.
In an area that doesnt freeze, it should fair better.  although what 27+ years of immersion in water does to cold cast porcelain, I dont know.
but actually in an area like New Orleans, if the casque moved at all it would probably sink however this is unlikely as the undisturbed earth beneath the casque would be denser then the earth it is buried in.

or there is something on the face of the clock right behind him.

Unknown

Unknown:
Shecrab,
I’m not sure what your suggesting.
So the entire area of city park was underwater and parts of it have been remodeled. Are you suggesting we all just give up on New Orleans?
If it is located in City park, why not keep working at the solution until we have a best guess or most likely possibility?

Unknown

Unknown:
The area where I am suggesting near harlequin park, was also flooded and is undoubtedly different then it was in 1981.

Unknown

Unknown:
Its been almost 3 decades, Things have changed dramatically, so what, that just makes it more challenging.

Unknown

Unknown:
Lastly some thoughts about levys
I work in Sacramento, CA, a city surrounded by levys. Your comment about Levys indicates an unfamiliarity with them.

Why is this so difficult to understand? The park was under TEN FEET OF WATER. Do you really honestly think that the casque would survive that? They were only buried 3 feet down!! Have some common sense, here, guys. I know the park doesn’t look like that now–for cryin’ out loud!  I was trying to show you how DEEP the water was by the pictures. That kind of water would have seriously affected the ground it stood on for that many weeks. I know the  park has been remodeled. But that is also a point here–do you think they just pulled a plug and let the water out like in a bathtub? No–the ground was littered with gunk, which had to be removed with trucks and shovels and backhoes. I’ve seen video of the clean up there. They didn’t just sweep up afterwards or use a shop vac.
If the casque was in City Park, it’s probably UNRECOVERABLE.
That’s
what I was saying. Plain and simple. If you go back through this thread alone–and verse 2’s–you will see that all of this has been suggested over and over again. It has come to nothing every single time. Katrina probably made the New Orleans find a scant possibility–and
that’s
only if it was buried someplace other than next to a damned levee!
Am I saying give up?
No
. I’m saying that the logical step from Harlequin park (which has NOTHING IN IT except a few trees!) is City Park–because it’s a mere few blocks away from Harlequin park. But if that’s where you want to go, then you’re probably never going to find a casque.
What area is this? You haven’t suggested an area. Unless I really missed something here–??
Well, duh….
No kidding.
That was sorta my point.
No, I am NOT unfamiliar with LEVEES…(not LEVYs.) And I’ve seen the ones near Lakeshore in NOLA. They aren’t walls. They’re earth banks. They are different in Sacramento. (I’ve been there too.)
Check this out:
That third picture
is
east of Harlequin park…where is the levee
or
the wall? (or did you mean west?)
in fact, I don’t see any walls anywhere. Perhaps you can explain? They looked like this in 1981 too. in fact, one of the reasons this area flooded is
because
they look like this and don’t have walls on top of them. They’re smooth earth banks and have been for many decades. There was plenty of news footage of people sandbagging the tops of them.  You can get very close in Google Earth and you can see that there is nothing on top, no “levels” no terraces, no brick walls, no blocks–no nothin’.
You can also get close enough to see that Harlequin park has no features in it that could be used as a marker to hide a casque–our verse doesn’t say anything about “in the middle of flat ground with a few trees.” It says “in the middle of twenty-one.” You can get right down on the street view in GE and see what’s there–and it’s like a big empty backyard for the houses that surround it.
I’m just being realistic.

This is the kind of thing I was referring to, shecrab:
“Dozens of caskets that surfaced from grave sites sit along a fence line at the Hollywood Community Cemetary, Sunday, Sept. 14, 2008, in Orange, Texas. Dozens of caskets floated to the surface due to the flood waters caused by Hurricane Ike.”  –The News

forest_blight

This is the kind of thing I was referring to, shecrab:
“Dozens of caskets that surfaced from grave sites sit along a fence line at the Hollywood Community Cemetary, Sunday, Sept. 14, 2008, in Orange, Texas. Dozens of caskets floated to the surface due to the flood waters caused by Hurricane Ike.”  –The News

Unknown

Unknown:
The casque on the other hand was a porcelein container containing a key, in a plexiglass box.

Oh I understood exactly what you meant–but this didn’t happen in New Orleans, since all the crypts are above-ground. The cemetaries sustained water damage (and I’m sure quite a few of the crypts leaked), but not like what happened in Texas. They plant ’em there. They
don’t
in NO.
No, the casque itself is just ceramic–and very porous. Not porcelain.  The key was also ceramic. And in a plexiglas box, yes–which is easily shattered, crushed, broken. As the Cleveland box was–as the Cleveland casque also was. Basically, you have a flower-pot type of ceramic box inside a box made of brittle plastic. I honestly don’t think it survived Katrina, unless it was in some extremely sheltered place that didn’t flood.

shecrab, I think I’m a lot more optimistic about what happens to things buried 3 ft. underground under flood conditions. I understand that it isn’t like filling and draining a bath tub. But even if a lot of flotsam accumulates… when they truck it away, surely they would scrape only down to the original ground level and not significantly (3 ft.!) deeper. Sure, NOLA’s original ground level probably fluctuates a few inches either way (relative to 1981) in many places that have since been cleared of storm debris, and I’m sure there are some parts of town where significant accumulation of silt and muck occurred, but it’s not accumulation
we
have to worry about so much as
erosion
, and I am not clear on the extent to which the soil in New Orleans was eroded way by Katrina. Surely not 3 ft.
That said, I just recalled that caskets not covered by concrete tend to pop out of the ground and float down the street during floods in New Orleans, and they’re buried 6 ft.! Hmm.

FB–they
don’t
bury people in New Orleans; the caskets are all above ground.

…because, if they weren’t, they would, er… self-disinter, right?
Maybe our NOLA casque is floating in an eddy somewhere in Lake Pontchartrain…!

who knows, maybe bp did a little research on caskets and the problems of this area and decided our casque should somehow be above ground as well.  .    .

shecrab

No, the casque itself is just ceramic–and very porous. Not porcelain.

Cold cast porcelain is a type of ceramic. my assumption is the casque is made up of cold cast porcelain because it was cast rather then sculpted, and cold cast porcelain is the easiest cheapest method to do that. The differnce being a small amount of resin is mixed with ceramic base, this makes it easy to mold, and dries without being fired.  Also the casques we’ent fully decorated making me wonder if they were kiln fired or just baked dry.

fox

who knows, maybe bp did a little research on caskets and the problems of this area and decided our casque should somehow be above ground as well.  .    .

…except that BP specifically wrote that all 12 casques were buried underground. The only way one of them could be above ground is if we put it there!

remember he expected them to be found almost immediately…

Four21thrasher, I just had an in depth conversation with someone who was at the concert your poster references.  The Dead stayed at her house since her roommate dated the keyboardist.  She remembers they charged 2 buck for a show but then raised it to 3.
Anyways, she likes your comparison too.

Xieish

Here is a shot I took of the horse on the Jackson statue back at Jackson Square. I fail to see how the horse/LA outline in Image #7 is anything else, the open mouth is a complete giveaway, as are the flared nostrils, ear position, etc.
I met a tour guide in NOLA who told me the certification exam for tour guides is based around a book which I’ve ordered from my university library. It’s a history book that contains an entire section full of obscure statues they need to memorize.

The horse head image looks more like the ironwork horse mount outside the Hotel Monteleone than the Jackson statue.
You can see it here on the left side of the street.
https://www.google.com/maps/uv?hl=en&pb … px8IqAEwCg
that would make sense to follow them down Royal to St. Charles –>> Lay(fay)ette Park

shecrab

Yeah….was. I doubt we’ll ever find anything in Nola.
As the song says, “they’re tryin’ to wash us away..”  I think they (Katrina, etc.) already did. Sadly.

We are NOT WASHED AWAY! Lafayette Square is still there and a casque is buried.  Armstrong Park seemed the location to me however Ray Nagin is his crappy crookedness destroyed the park. The Louis Armstrong statue is damaged and got moved to a different location in the park. New walkways were installed that are also sub par and the park now floods. I would be leery of digging in Lafayette square because of Homeland security. The post office is right across the street and there are no hidden spots to dig. I’ve been on Tweleve working on Cowboy so I haven’t been giving this one too much attention lately. Anyone going to N.O. pm me and we’ll meet up!

Warning: random brainstorming ahead…
I can see there are just too many clues for this image. I’m still trying to catch up with all the findings at the mo. I like the Lafayette Square stuff, Armstrong Park is another natural contender, and I can see the Jackson stuff is also interesting.
I’m tending to think there might be some mathematics and measuring to do in solving this puzzle, with any or all these places potentially involved as landmarks. The centre of the dial to the top of the clock along the ornate needle seems very close to 1 inch.
In
the middle of twenty-one
From end to end
(twenty-one / blackjack / jackson)
The bottom of the stick up to the lower lip of the mask is 2 inches.
Gnomes were apparently invented by Paracelsus, and were “two spans high”.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gnome
This lip / crescent is also about “fifteen rows down”. (I say “about” because the cut-off at the top of the page makes it ambiguous.)
Other random thoughts: The circular arrow indicates 10/12ths of the distance around the dial. The clock hands are in the shape of an “L” (twelfth letter), and the vertical hand passes through 12.
I’m also interested in how the Narcissus myth might come into this. I’m thinking of clock-boy as Narcissus, as he’s staring at one, as in the myth.
The Great Lafayette was pals with Houdini, who “sent a floral representation of Beauty [Lafayette’s dog] to the funeral”.
http://members.fortunecity.com/gillonj/ … lafayette/
So that’s two stories about how beauty became a flower.
Lafayette was obsessed with this dog. Beauty might be the “dragon square”.
If clock-boy is Narcissus/La
fay
ette, Armstr
ong
could be the
gno
me.
I also wondered about turquoise / turk wise /
mechanical turk
. In the Wizard of Oz, the Scarecrow (bloke on a stick) lacked a brain, and had his head stuffed with pins and needles and straw. The Field Guide entry for “Tinkerbell” (compare the bell on P179 to the Narcissus – also trumpet bell / Peter Pan), explains that they “imbue every piece of hardware with a personality and reduce humankind to the condition of machines”. This seems to fit with the idea of the mask and the clock. (I did warn you about this post…)
Yay, I just noticed The Mechanical Turk beat Benjamin Franklin. I’m determined to bring that dude into everything.  !!
Y’know…a clockwork mechanism with a human face that’s famous for moving a knight around the board in a chess puzzle called “the knight’s tour”…maybe it’s not such a big stretch after all. Another point for equestrian
Jackson
…? Then again, it could just be a ridiculously complicated clue for turkuoise…